The Sun.
London, England, 1864-06-14 00:00:00

MAJOR

Mr. LIDDELL asked the ITuiler Socretary of State for
Foreign Affairs by whose orders and under what instruc-
tions Major Gordon was appointed to the command of the
Chinese disciplined force now employed in suppressing the
rebellion in China, and empowered to conduct the present
military operations, having for their object the restoration
of Nankin to Imperial rule, inasmuch as Sir Frederick
Bruce, in the enclosure of a despatch to Earl Russell, sated
Juno 12, 1863, being copy of a memorandum addressed by
him to Prince Kung on June 5, 1870, states "that he, Sir

The motion having been seconded by Mr. BAILLra,
Mr H. GRENFELL argued, in opposition to the pro-
posal, that no wrong had been done to Azeem Jah, who,
during his whole life, had enjoyed the protection of the
English Government. If the committee were granted, it
would be tantamount to an admission that he had suffered
wrong, and that would be contrary to the opinion of some
of the most eminent statesmen. it would also necessitate
an instruction to the committee to provide a remedy, and
the remedy must be either to confer upon him the mock
throne of the Carnatic or give him a large pecuniary com-
pensation. Before doing that, it was necessary to show that
wrong had been committed, and next that it could be re-
medied without inflicting wrong upon others. And he
held that both these elements were wanting in the case.
Sir J. FERGIJSSON said that if the committee were
appointed their inquiries would be useless, because no fresh
evidence could be collected on the subject. But they might
do this. They might find a bill of indictment against faithful
and able servants of the Crown who, after passing their
lives in honour, had gone to the grave amidst the regrets
and with the respect of all. He called upon the house not
to re-open a question which had been settled upwards of
60 years ago.
Mr BAILLIE observed that there were two important
admissions in the treaty of 1801; first, that the Nawab was
the legitimate Sovereign of the Carnatic, and next that the
East India Company had acquired the right to govern the
Carnatic, not by conquest, but by treaty. If then the
treaty had ceased to exist, by what title, he should like to
know,',did we now possess the territory ?
Mr LOWE was not prepared to say that the transaction
was one in which we could take much pleasure, but he
argued that the treaty was entered into without any inten-
tion of conveying rights to descendants. The Anglo-Indian
Government retained to themselves the right of considering
whether they would allow a new nomination to the nawab-
ehip of the Carnatic, and all that could be said was that, in
two eases, they elected to do so, and in the third that they
would not.
On a division the motion was negatived by 61 to 45.
Mr HENNESSY expressed his surprise that the house
had been permitted to go to a division without the Secretary
for India offering any explanation on the subject.
Mr MALINS also rebuked Sir C. Weed for the indiffe-
rence with which he had treated the matter, and the exulta-
tion with which he had hailed the result of the division.
L-,rd PALMERSTON said that if his right hon. friend
had manifested any exultation it was owing to the tact that
the hon. and learned gentleman, Sir Fitzroy Kelly, who
was known to be full of the subject and prepared to support
the motion for inquiry, was so entirely dumbfounded by the
arguments opposed to it, that he was unable to reply.
Sir F. KELLY owned that he had been outwitted by
the tactique of the Government ; but he now gave notice
that, in jutice to the honcur of the house, he should take
the earliest opportunity of reviving the discussion.
Mr W. E, FORSI'EII stated that he had given his vote
with the minority on the single ground that the Secretary
for India had not risen to defend the conduct of his own
administration.
Sir C. WOOD contended that, as his department had been
assailed, he had a right, as the defendant, to hear all the
case against it before he delivered a reply. Moreover, he
considered the speeches of Sir J. Fergusson and Mr Lowe
were ample defence.
Lord STANLEY regretted that Lord Palmerston should
have regarded the motion in the light of a party attack,
seeing that in the division one half the support received by
the Government had come from th© Opposition side of the
house.

The house then went into committee of supply, and
agreed to several votes on account of the civil service.
NEW ZEALAND (GUARANTEE OF LOAN).
The hawse went into committee on this bill.
Mr. CARDWELL said that papers relating to the pro-
gress of the war in New Zealand had recently been laid on
the table of that house. He had seen in the newspapers ac-
counts which, he was happy tc say, did not correspond with
those which had reached him officially. He had received
by this mail accounts of two conflicts which had taken place
between our troops and, the native chiefs—one in the neigh-
bourhood of Plymo-dth, and the other with Gen. Cameron's
force. The first was an operation conducted by Gen. Ward
with great si:xcess, and was carried out fortunately with
the smallesz loss, no one being killed, and only four wounded.
The GoNernor and General Cameron spoke of that action in
the highest terms, A more important engagement had taken
ply,* with General Cameron's force, with reference to which
he was glad to say the reports of a disastrous failure through
a subordinate were not correct. All he could say was that
according to the intelligence which had reached him, the
victory over the natives by General Cameron was complete
and decisive, and the extensive district was now in posses-
sion of the Government. He would now turn to what was
the inaraediate object. It would be in the recollection of the
house that a proposal had been made last session for a loan
of half a million, but, for reasons stated in the correspond-
ence now before him, that proposal had not succeeded ; and
it now devolved upon him to renew the proposal in a diffe-
rent form. The correspondence showed that the oolor,y of
New Zealand desired to raise a loan of £3,000:00. The
Finance Minister of the colony had disci]ssed the matter
with him; but he (Mr. Cardwell) gave 'tint to urAkratand
at the outset that he could not und,rtake on the part of the
Imperial Government to subm.'a any proposal to Parliament
for so large a sqm as r),000,000. The question, then,
was, whether they should limit themselves to the £500,000
of lest session. The guarantee of £500,000 had nothing to
do with the expense of the war. Tha Imperial Government
in the coarse of the present year had advanced £300,000,
and therefore if the guarantee were confined to £500,000
the whole would be absorbed in the amount due to the
Treasury. It was now proposed to guarantee a loan of
£1,000,000, £500,000 to be paid to the Imperial Treasury,
and VOO,OOO to be at the disposal of the Colonial Govern-
ment; and he thought the correspondence would show that
there was ample security for this loan. It might be asked
why they came forward to guarantee at all ? But the reasons
were the great expense caused by having so many of the
population of New Zealand under arms, the necessity for
making roads, and surveys, and carrying out many other
improvements. If the proposal were agreed to, the whole
of the amount due to the Imperial Treasury would be re-
paid, and at the close of the present year New Zealand
would contribute, like the rest of the Australian territory,
her proportion of the military expenditure, namely, at the
artilleryman
rate of t4O for every infantry soldier and £55 for every
The only
exception was the difference of one
regiment in favour of New Zealand, for which a sum of
The resolution ti
£20,000 would be alloNred as heretofore,
--o',ng been read,
Mr AYTOUN said he would offer no opposition pro-
vided the right hon. gentleman would
give sufficient time
for the reading of the correspondence.
Mr CARD WELL was desirous of affording sufficient
time for the perusal of the correspondence, and he would
not take the second reading before that day week,
Sir H.WILLOUGHBY thought the proper time for dis-
cussion was the present occasion, when
in committee, The
correspondence was only delivered that reernin_.
g He had
g theho gentleman.
surplus fund
only looked cursorily through it, but he had
seen enough
to warn the committee of the anxious state ofXew Zealand.
The account appeared to him to be more complicated than
Ile
wnsoindiecdatheed
cinoutlhdensot at
st tuenmdeenrtoafntdhe riht
where
was to be found that was to secure the payment of the debt,
and to protect the imperial treasury from the risks of gua-
ranteeing the loan.

Mr. WHALLEY had seen a statement put forward
in a New Zealand newspaper to the effect that, wher-
ever Sir George Grey went, ha found evidence that the
recent rebellion had originated in the conduct of
the Roman Catholic priesthood—(oh, oh, and laughter)—
and he wished to know whether the right hon. gentleman
had received any communication from Sir George Grey
confirmatory of that statement. (Laughter.)
Mr ADDE ItLEY said no doubt the circumstances of ..he
cue were peculiar, and that there were very strong reasons
why the house should entertain the proposal of a guarantee.
The spirit which Now Zealand had shown in meeting its
ditlicnitic.3 was an example to all our other colonies—(hear)
—and, in the next place, the condition which would be at-
tached to the guarantee, that for the future the colony were
willing to pay for all the Imperial troops quartered there
with the exception of one regiment, recommended the reso-
lution to the adoption of the house. Not desiring to be
understood as expressing any deliberate opinion upon the
ole proposition until he had been able to read the cor-
respondence, he nevertheless inclined to the opinion that
the pr.- posal of the Governmont ought to be supported.
Mr HA SSARD suggested the desirability of th being
put in Possesbion of niceo detailed information witheir respect

Frederick Bruce,l77smsjdeerorh7.Majes-
ty's army to take any part in military operations further than
may be necessary for the protection of British interests,
and his first step, consequently, would be to desire that Major
Gordon and others serving with him at Shanghae should
not pass the boundary described as the 30 mile radius.
Mr LAYAnD said that all the information asked for
would be found in the blue books, which could be referred
to by ahy hon. member.
THE CONFERENCE.
In reply to Mr B. OSBORNE and Mr KINGLAXE,
Lord PALMERSTON declined to verify officially any
statement that appeared in the Morning Post or any other
newspaper relative to the Danish Conference. (Laughter.)
He was not in a position to confirm any newspaper
statement as to what the Danish Plenipotentiaries said or
did. (Laughter.) The statement he had made to the house
was sufficiently explanatory, and there were no new cir-
cumstances that called for any supplemental statement.
An Hon. MEMBER— file noble lord has not, to my mind,
made a satisfactory statement in regard to this matter.
Lord PALMERSTON said he did not feel himself
called upon to deal with every variety of mind which might
arise even in that house, and all that he could do was to
make a clear and so far as he could a logical statement.
(Hear, and laughter.)
THE NAWAB OF THE CARNATIC.
On the motion for going into committee of supply,
Mr SMOLLETT moved that a select committee be ap-
pointed to inquire into the claims of his Highness Azcem
Jah to the title and dignity of the Nawab of the
Carnatic; and further to report upon the circumstances
under which the treaty entered into between his high-
ness's father, Azeem ul Dowlah and the East India Com-
pany, dated the 31st day;of July, 1801, had been declared
void.