The Sun.
London, England, 1864-10-29 00:00:00

Sergeant Parry—You volunteered your evidence to Mr
Beard ?
Witness—. I was subpoenaed.
Sergeant Parry—Have you ever seen that hat before P
Witness—No.
Sergeant Ballantine--Is that hat cut as you would cut
it—the leather I mean ?
Witness—l don't know why the loather should be cut.
Sergeant Ballantine—Why do you out good hats down ?
Witness—The hats are worn lower now, and that's the
reason why it is done.
Sergeant Parry—Are hats ever cut down to remove
grease P
Witness—l never did one.
Foreman of the Jury—Used you to out hats as low down
as that
Witness—No; it is lower than I should have done it.
Alfred Woodward, clerk in the International Electric
Telegraph Company—I produce the original copy of a tele-
gram from Alexander Gill Straub to Miss Eldred at Brix-
ton. It stated that the sender would be with her on the
following Sunday. I t bore date July 9. It was sent out
about 5 o'clock.
Eliziboth Kemp—l reside at 1, St. GeGrge'ssroad, Peck.
ham. I don't know how far it is from Camberwell-gate.
In July last I lived at Stanley Cottage, Vassal-road, Cam-
berwell. I had two young ladies lodgers. They used to
see gentlemen. One was named Mary Ann Eldred. I know
the young man at the bar. He had been in the habit of
coming to see Mary Ann Eldred. I had known him to
visit her previous to the 9,h of July for about nine or ten
months, Miss E:dred know the prisoner before he visited
my house. I recollect Miss Eldred receiving a telegram on
the 9th of July. It came in the afternoon.
Sergeant Parry—Do you recollect seeing Muller on tha
day ?

Witness—Yes.
Sergeant Parry—When ?
Witness—About half-past nine in the evening.
Sergeant Parry—At that time was Miss Eldred at home f
Witness—No; she had been out an hour.
Sergeant Parry—What did Muller come for ?
Witness—To see her. She was not at home.
Sergeant Parry—Are you sure it was as much as half-
past nine ?
Witness—Yes.
Sergeant Parry—Did he leave then
Witness—Yes.
Sergeant Parry—Are you quite sure you saw Muller on
the 9th of July ?
Witness—l am quite sure it was about half-past nine on
he 9th of July that I saw the prisoner. He was called
Muller, but I always called him the Frenchman. I made
a communication to Mary Ann Eldred the next morning.
Sergeant Parry—May I not ask what?
[lt was ruled the question could not be answered.]
Examination continued—l told my husband the follow-
ing night. My house in Vassal-road was about half a mile
from Camberwell.
Cross-examined by Sergeant Ballantine—l don't know
whether my husband has taken the house I now reside in
in the name either of Kemp or Jones. My husband's name
is Kemp, but I have been called Mrs Jones for many years.
I don't know much about Peckham. It would take about
a quarter of an hour or 20 minutes to walk from Vassal-
road to Camberwell-gate. The Peckham omnibuses do not
go from Camberwell-gate. I took in the telegram. I don't
recollect whether I signed a paper for it, it is so long ago.
Directly I received it I took it up to Eldred. I usually dine
between one and two. The telegram came after dinner. I
had no reason to recollect the exact time Muller called.
I know he came about half-past nine, that was half an hour
after she went out. Miss Eldred asked the time before she
went out. I cannot say the exact time the telegram came.
I looked at the clock Ware I told her.
Sergeant Ballantine —When was inquiry first made of you
about what you knew about Muller's calling at your house
on the 9th of July ?
Witness—About seven or eight weeks ago.
Sergeant Ballantine—Who called
Witness—Two German gentlemen called.
Sergeant Ballantine—Did Mica Eldred toll you anything?
Witness—No. Wo did not know who Muller was. We
did not know that Miller was Muller.
Sergeant Ballantine—Who had the telegram P
Witness—Miss Eldred ; she had it in her box.
Sergeant Bailantine—How came it to be produced ?
Witness—Miss Eldred recollected she got it on July 9,
and she then went and got the telegram. Miss Eldred did
not for some time know that her friend Miller was suspected
to be the marderer. We had, however, some suspicion
about it, as the description in the papers corresponded.
Sergeant Ballan tine— When was the telegram first found?
Witness—About two or three weeks ago.
Sergeant Ballantine—Then she did not show it to the
German gentlemen when they called ?
Witnees---No.
Sergeant Ballantine—Did she not tell the gentlemen
that she had a telegram ?
Witness—No.
Sergeant Ballantine—Then it was recollected afterwards
and shown to the German gentlemen?
Witne6s—Yes.
Sergeant Ballantine—Why did you not tell the German
gentlemen that Muller called at your house in the evening
of the 9th of July, and that 3ou recollected it by the tele-
gram being received ?
Witness—l had no business to interfere with Miss
Eldred's letters.
Sergeant Ballantine—How long ago is it since the tele-
gram was first thought or ?
Witness—About two or three weeks ago.
Sergeant Ballantine—When was it given to the German
gentlemen ?
Witness—Last Monday week. When Miss Eldred gave
the telegram to the German gentlemen she did not know
it would be of any service.
Re-examined--We did not know the exact date of Mul-
ler's calling until we found the telegram. Then we were
quite positive of the elate.

Mary Ann Eldred, examined by Mr Metcalfe—ln July
last I lived in Lint-street, in the Borough. I now reside
at Peckham--before that in Islington. I lived at Stanley
Cottage, Vassal road, Brixton, in July last. I knew
Muller, and had done so for 12 months. I was constantly
in the habit of seeing him. I recollect reooiving the tele-
gram (produced). I saw Muller the Saturday previous to
tie murder, in the Old Jewry, On the 9th of July I went
out about 9, and remained out till after 12. I did not see the
landlady till the Sunday morning, when she told me some-
thing. It was some time after that I heard the murder had
been committed. I knew he was going abroad. He told
me several weeks before ho went. Ho wished me to go
with him.
himlje toldif me
did nit gho
nwas go with him
oingto
see
hip
sister.
should remain there but Fix weekF. I wart remember
saying anything to any German gentlemen, which was
taken down in writing. I recollect seeing Mr Beard. 1
gave the telegram up about two or three days ago, I think,

Cross-examined by the SJlicitor-General—l saw Mr
Beard a few days ago. It is not so long as a month ago
that 1 first saw him. I can't remember speaking to any one
of Muller. I saw two gentlemen at Mrs Jones' two or three
weeks ago; but I did not know I then had the telegram. I
only found it a few days ago. Nothing before that had
ever been said to recall the day I last saw Muller. I can't
tell where I took my breakfast on the 9th of
July. I went to bed about half-past twelve
o'clock. I am positive I went out at nine o'clock
on the 96h of July, because I generally went out at that
hour. I recollect it so well and the telegram. I recollect
the landlady telling me about Muller calling. I don't know
what the telegram had to do with my recollecting the time

I went out that night.
A Juror—Were you in the habit of seeing Muller's hat ?
Witness—No.
Mr Thomas Beard—l am the prisoner's solicitor. I first
hoard the witness Haifa say that Muller had been to see his
sweetheart before Muller's arrival from America. In con-
sequence of this I instructed my clerk, in company with
one of the gentlemen of the German Protection Society, to
make inquiries. They brought me certain proofs of these
researches before Muller's arrival from America. I had
the telegrams just spoken of in my possession but two
days before I submitted it to the counsel engaged to conduct
the defence.

Charles Foreman, examined by Mr Metcalfe—l am an
omnibus conductor residing at Peckham. I am on a
Peckham-rye 'bus which goes to Camberwell-gate. There
are other 'busses to New Peckham. They go down the Old
Kent-road. I leave the Gate at 6 minutes to 10 o'clock in the
evening. From Camberwell-gate to the Green is little
more than a quarter of a mile. It is about a quarter of a
mile from the Green to the Vassal-road. I recollect on one
occasion a gentleman riding in my 'bus with a slipper on.
It was the last journey-5 minutes to 10. He got in at the
Gate. I can't recollect the date, but it was in the summer
I know. I can't say the day or the week. My attention
was not called to this circumstance till about five weeks ago.
I said when I saw the gentleman get off the step, "that
gentleman's got a touch of my complaint, the gout." It
was a carpet slipper like the one produced. Of course 1
cannot swear to it.
This closed the evidence for the defence.
The Solicitor-General then rose to reply. He said in
his opening speech ho was glad that the prisoner had been
able to obtain the service of counsel, and they all had hoard
the zealous and able manner in which that defence had
been conducted. God forbid that it should be thought the
Crown desired the conviction of the prisoner at the bar. Ile
had a duty to perform, and it was but just, that while the
prisoner's interests were protected, that of the public should
bo most securely guarded. In commenting upon the evi.
deuce as it had been presented to the jury, his duty would
terminate, but theirs would commence, and the great
question fur them to determine was aye or no, was
the hat found in the railway carriage the hat of Muller. 11
so, it placed him in the carriage with Mr Briggs, and proved
as conclusively that ho was the murderer as if he had been
seen actually to commit it by 20 or 30 witnesses, Aye or
no, then, was that hat the hat of Muller? In dealing
with that branch of the case ho would, for the present, omit
the evidence of Mathews, and deal only with 1114 of the
hatter and Mr Itopsch. Mr Walker spoke most positively
about the manufacture of the hat, together with the foreign
lining, and Mrs Repsch—it was moat extraordinary—gave
a most minute description of it to the police before she saw
the hat. It hadb3cu attempt ed to impugn the evidence of Mrs
Expel, but a more straightforward witness he had never
head. What motive could the have in cohiieg furwatel to