The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-31 00:00:00

SECULAR EDUCATION.

Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Mr.
Robert Owen, praying that he might have the opportu-
nity of explaining his views on education before a Selccl
Committee.

DURATION OF THE PRESENT SESSION OF
PARLIAMENT.

The Earl of MINTO, seeing Lord Lyndhurst in his
place, asked him whether it was his intention to pro-
ceed with his Bill for enabling each House of Parliament
to take up in an ensuing session a measure which had
been passed by one of them in the preceding session?
He was induced, to ask this question as he found that
there was a general impression abroad that we might
very shortly expect a dissolution of Parliament. It was
also said, that as a very short and hurried session would
follow the general election, many measures would be
passed in one House which there would not be time to
consider in the caller. He suggested that some of such
measures might be proceeded with during the present
session, as their Lordships had at present a great deal of
leisure in their House.
The Earl of DERBY—Before my Noble and Learned
Friend answers this question, I beg to correct a misap-
prehension under which the Noble Earl opposite labours
as to what fell from me some nights ago. Nothing has
Sver fallen from my lips which could lead any man to
uppose that the present would be a session of unusually
Iport duration. I never said anything that could justify
uch a conclusion. I say further, that the continuance
,f the session depends on causes over which I can have
n o control. As tar as I can form an opinion, the next
1 session, so far from being a short and hurried session,
will commence at an early period, and will be of no
ordinary duration. The Noble Earl has done me the
honour to allude still further to what he supposes me to
have said. What I did say was this, that I thought it
advisable that the autumn should not pass over without
Parliament coming to a decision on certain subjects
deeply affecting the welfare and interests of the country.
But I did not say anything which could lead the House,
nor did I intend to lead the House, to the impression
that there would be an early dissolution in the spring, to
be followed up by a short and hurried session in the
summer. On the part of her Majesty's Government
there was no such intention. As to the object of the
question now put by the Noble Earl opposite to my
Noble and Learned Friend, as to the expediency of pass-
ing a Bill to enable us to keep a measure hanging over
from one session to another, I have only to say, that
whatever may have been his intention or mine as to
enabling one House of Parliament to take up in a fol-
lowing session a measure passed by the other in a pre-
ceding session, I never contemplated a measure for
enabling us to continue in one Parliament a Bill com-
menced in another.
The Earl of MINTO complained that he had been
misunderstood by the Noble Earl opposite, and explained
what he actually had said, but in too low a tone of voice
to enable us to report him.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE—My Lords, my under•
standing is, that the present explanation of the Noble
Earl (Derby) is not in accordance with that which I
understood to fall from him on a former night, nor with
the understanding which other Noble Lords have of the
expressions which he then used, and which gained their
approbation, nor with the general interpretation of the
public. The Noble Earl has stated with great cor-
rectness the latter part of the answer which he
then gave me; but the Noble Earl will not, I think,
deny that he also stated that he did contemplate an
early dissolution of Parliament, and that he did not
think it right, considering the temper of the
present House of Commons, to persevere with any
measures of legislation except those which were
of instant urgency. He will not, I think, deny
that he also stated that which, of course, produced a
great effect, and rendered his explanation more satisfac-
tory—that he would not pledge himself to dissolve Par-
liament on any definite or particular day—that he
would not pledge himself to dissolve in April, May, or
June—

The Earl of DERBY—I never mentioned those
months.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE—I must then appeal to
the recollection of your Lordships—for my recollection
on the point is distinct. If the Noble Earl says that
he made such a statement without intending it, I am
ready to admit it; but from my perfect reliance on my
own recollection I must say that the Noble Earl has for-
go VII his own statement; for I aver that he distinctly
said that ho did not pledge himself to the time of the dis-
solution, and that he would not say whether it was to
take place in the month of April, May, or June.
The Earl of DERBY—The Noble Duke has evi-
dently misunderstood what fell from me on a former oc-
casion. I said that I would not pledge myself to specify
the day on which I would advise her Majesty to dissolve
Parliament, or the month in which a general election
should take place. I said that I thought that it was ex-
pedient for the public advantage that the autumn should
not pass over without a new Parliament having an op-
portunity of discussing certain questions of deep general
interest; and I added, almost in the same words which 1
repeated to-day, that I thought it was expedient that
those questions should be disposed of before the ordi-
nary time of assembling Parliament for the session
of 1853. That statement I repeat again. Beyond that I
have not bound myself, nor will I be induced, to go.
Here the conversation dropped.
The Personal Estates of Intestates Bill passed through
Committee.

The Proclamation for Agsonabling Parliament Bill
was read a third time and passed.
ESTATES OF LUNATICS.
Lord LYNDHURST said the object he had in view, in
moving for the returns contained in the paper which he
had laid on the table, was to lay the foundation for ex-
tending the provisions of the Act of Parliament passed in
the year 1842, for administering the estates of lunatics
found lunatics by commission. In order that the subject
might be distinctly understood, he begged to call their Lord-
ships' attention in a few words to the state of that depart-
ment of the administration of justice in lunatic cases pre-
viously to the passing of the Act. The commission was
directed to three persons to hold the commission near the
place where the lunatic resided. As these places were often
remote andl9bEcure, it followed a'most asia matter of course
that the commission was authorised to make inquiries under
the authority of the great seal, wherein they were informed
of the nature of the duties they had to discharge. The con-
sequence was that the returns were frequently not made,
on account of irregularity, or from being defective. He had
seen a list of those defective returns, extending over a period
of ten years, and they amounted to no less than 60. He did
not mean to say that in all these returns the commission was
quashed, but a good deal of unnecessary expense was
incurred. In many instances, however, the decisions were
quashed, and the consequence was that a new inquiry was
carried on before a new jury, at the expense of the estate of
the lunatic. In addition to that the commissioners were
paid, not by salary, but by fees. Each commissioner received
5/. per day during the discharge of his duties, besides other
incidental fees, When he mentioned Si. per day, that ap-
plied to the country, but in London the commissioners re-
ceived double that sum. In the country the commissioners
received every day while discharging their zloty a gum of
about 201., and in London about 40/. per day. Their Lord-
ships would be surprised to hear that in Lord Portsmouth's
lunacy the fees amounted to 1,070/. In the case of Mr. De-
vonport the fees amounted to 500/, and it was by no means
unusual for the fees to amount to many hundred pounds.
Besides the circnmstance of the commissioners being paid by
fees, the jurors also were paid at the rate of one guinua per
day; the solicitors were also remunerated in proportion to
their labours; and their Lordships might come to the con-
clusion that none of the parties were interested in shortening
the inquiry or bringing it to a speedy termination. At an
early period, when abuses were more prevalent, the parties
assembled at a tavern or inn, and partook each day of a din-
ner at the expense of the estate of the lunatic.
" - sic to sapiens finire memento
Tristitiam vitteque labores
Moth, Plance, mero."

—(Laughter.) The quotation had a peculiar application, the
entertainment being at the expense of the lunatic.—(Hear,
hear, and laughter.) Before the verdict was returned the
whole of the proceedings were referred to the Master in
Chancery, where all the expense and delay incident to that
ancient, much-revered, but now worn-out and condemned
establishment was incurred. By the Act which, in 1842, he
(Lord Lyndhurst) had introduced, the whole business was
transferred to three commissioners, who were named in the
Act. They were gentlemen of great experience, and when
the commission was issued, one proceeded to the place
where the lunatic resided and summoned a jury. After the
verdict was found, the proceedings were of this nature—
the commissioner, being on the spot, and surrounded by
the relatives and friends of the lunatic, he examined them
vira roce, and obtained all the materials necessary for the
administration of the affairs of the estate. When he in-
troduced his Bill, it was opposed by his Noble and Learned
Friend (Lord Cottenham) on one ground—that it was
impossible that all that load of busines could be con-
ducted by three commissioners. He (Lord Lyndhurst)
ventured to differ from him, and the result showed
that he had formed a correct estimate of the powers
Every
of the commissioners to transact the tukiness.
commission was executed a few days after it was issued, and
there never was any arrear. During the first year after the
appointment of the commission there was an arrear
d
out of the immense accumulation of business which ba arising
been
but at
transferred to them from the Masters in Chanceryr;e_r
was
the expiration of the first year the whole of that arrear
He
got rid of, and since then there had been
would now state what alterations and extensinonoosaor
made these
of the Act
he meant to propose. He had intended to v
he had alterations at at an early period—as soon as he had had suffi-
cient experience of the working of the Bill; fish that, and
signed the Great Seal before he could accoi.
It was no-
the matter had remained stationary since then
cessary that he should call their attention to t.hat,.peoit7 ye
propo-)ed that all applkation.i >lliad be matte lirr.'t In"