The Sun.
London, England, 1864-03-12 00:00:00

adding too much stimulus to pauperism—Parliament might
consent to equalise the law, and make it exactly the Fame in
Ireland as it was in England ? Ho could find only two
arguments against that course. One which was very dis-
creditable to Irishmen—that was, that Irishmen had very
little disinclination to accept the relief of paupers ; and the
other was that the right hon. gentleman was afraid that the
Irish proprietors and the whole of the class above the poorest
could not be trusted with the administration of the law so
safely or advantageously as the corresponding class was
trusted in England. That ;might be so, but he could not
think we Englishmen need to be influenced by that argu-
ment, for if Ireland had been a thousand times further in
the Atlantic, we should still have been obliged to leave the
law towards the poor to be administered by the rich. He
was not surprised that the population of Ireland should in
very large numbers find its way to a country where wages
were so much higher; but it did not follow that we should
retain a system of law which would allow a man in Ireland
justly to tell his countrymen that he had not justice from
the imperial Parliament, and that the only country in which
he could be respected as a man was one in which he (Mr.
Bright) was sorry to say the Irish people would form a very
considerable number of whatever party there was in that
country hostile to this. (Cheers.) The hon. member, having
quoted the opinions of Lord Carlisle, went on to say—lf we
had a good principle in England, we ought to adopt it in Ire-
lend; and if we had a principle rejected in England, but known
to be just, we ought to try it in Ireland. There is no humilia-
tion in Austria speaking of Italy, or in Russia speaking of
Poland—there is no humiliation so great as that which is
attached to this country when it is said we have ruled over
Ireland without dispute by a united Parliament for more
than two generations, and we find it now—by the consent
of every man, Catholic or Protestant—we find it now pau-
perised to a great extent, and disloyal and disaffected to this
house and to the English Government to a greater extent,
perhaps, than at any other period in its history. (Hear,
hear, and expressions of dissent.) I have heard a gentle-
man holding a position in this house say what would be the
result if there landed a French force in Bantry Bay. He
said, not to me, but in the hearing of a dozen persons, that
he believed such a landing would be received with unani-
mous acclamations throughout the whole of the south of
Ireland. lam not responsible for this. I have always
spoken in favour of equal justice to that people. The very
fact of your doing that, even if you did not get any practical
result, would still be a balm to the feelings of Ireland ; and

if the noble lord at the head of the Government could mike
up his mind to this, and I call it a small concession, he
would be amply compensated by the gratitude and good
will of the people of Ireland. (Cheess.)

Sir J. WALSH admitted the moderation of the Irish
members in speaking on this question, and condemned the
speech of the hon. member for Birmingham as the most in-
tammatory, and the most characterised by demagogism that
he, during his experience in that house, had ever heard fall
from the lips of any speaker. He had only risen for the pur-
pose of expressing his deep regret that an hon. member
whose words would no doubt echo to Ireland, should have
used his power of eloquence to widen the breach and endea-
vour to aim a blow at the interest, prosperity, and good
feeling which ought to exist between Ireland and England.
Mr. MAGUIRE totally differed from the hon.
baronet who had just spoken in his estimation of the
speech of the hon. member for Birmingham, and of the
intention of the speaker. He believed, with him, that
there was a feeling of intense exasperation and discontent
in Ireland. A general opinion was entertained that things
were getting worse every day, and that the sooner the mass
of the people left the country the better. That showed
something to be radically wrong, which ought to induce
the Government to endeavour to find out the cause, and to
provide a remedy. He did not believe that the enormous
misery of Ireland was to be attributed to the poor law. He
would suggest to his hon. friend, instead of the vague re-
solution which he had put before the house, which was open
to comment and misinterpretation, to bring in a bill to amend
the existing poor law in Ireland. One of the notorious
causes of the misery and discontent and emigration from
Ireland was not having in the south the same system of
tenant right which existed in the north. It was the duty of
the Government, as a matter of imperial policy, to deal with
that. if it was dealt with in a proper spirit, he believed it
would be the best means of stopping the tide of emigration,
which was now carrying away the strength and energy of
the country. Referring to the operation of the Irish poor
law, the hon. gentleman expressed a strong opinion in
favour of the extension of out-door relief, as more economi-
cal, and as not tending to degrade the objects of relief so
much as taking them into the workhouse.

Majer S. KNOX, in answer to the most intemperate and
offensive speech of the hon. member for Birmingham, would
only say that if a French army did land in Bantry Bay, the
men of Ulster would rise in defence of their rights and
liberties.

Mr. BRIGHT said he had never stated that if a French
array landed in Bantry Bay the people of the country would
hail their arrival with delight. lie had merely quoted the
statement of an Irish Protestant gentleman to that effect.
Lord NAAS twitted the hon. member for Birmingham
with having drawn a most di-rual picture of the condition
of Ireland, and nevertheless suggesting no remedy. It was
a remarkable fact that, although the hon. member pos-
sessed more talents and more eloquence than commonly
fell to the lot of members of that house, and although be
had for so many years enjoyed a seat within its walls, he
had never yet proposed a measure of the least benefit to a
country which he was accustomed to describe as being in so
deplorable a state. (Hear, hear.) Hip belief was that the
condition of affairs in Ireland had been grossly exaggerated,
and although ho regretted to see the stream of emigration
flowing from the country, he knew full well that it was de-
pendent upon causes far beyond the reach of Parliament.
(Hear, hear.) Those causes were various, but assuredly
the absence of a tenant right was not one of them, for in
the counties where the custom most prevailed, such as DJ.
negal and Monaghan, the rush of the tide was greatest. He
did not blame the poor people for becoming the victims of
delusions, but he did blame those who ought to know better
for ascribing the difficulties of Ireland to wrong causes.
And in the present disaffected state of the country—and it
was well known a great amount of disaff2ction prevailed
there—he was certain that there was no one who had in-
curred a greater responsibility than the hon. member for
Birmingham. He believed that the leading principles of the
Irish poor law ought to be maintained, and that nothing
would more conduce to the extension of emigration and the
increase of evictions than the introduction of a general sys-
tem of outdoor relief into the country. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. HENNESSY then announced his withdrawal of the
motion.

THE ROAD ROUND ST. JAMES'S PARK.

Sir W. FRASER called the attention of the First Com-
missioner of Works to the state of the road round St.James's
Park. He hoped the road would be put into decent repair,
and that it would be made a macadamised road.
Mr. COWPER said considerable care was taken to make
the road in question a good one. It was not in a very com-
fortable state now, on account of a large quantity of granite
which had been put upon it, but he had no doubt when the
roller was laid over it the road would be restored to a good
state. The badness of the road hitherto was owing to the
very great traffic and the wet weather ; but he did not think
it was worse than other roads of the metropolis.
SUPPLY.

The house went into committee of supply pro forme and
almost immediately resumed.
VOTE FOR ARTIFICERS IN THE DOCKYARDS.
Mr. MASSEY brought up the report of supply.
On the vote for pay of the artificers in the dockyards at
home being read,
Mr. BRAND moved that the vote be re-committed.
The motion was agreed to.
SUMMARY PROCEDURE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
MARINE MUTINY BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
LAND SECURITIES COMPANY.

Sir J. FERGUSSON, in committee of the whole house,
moved, "That the stamp duty, payable on the mortgage
debentures, transferable by delivery, issued by the Land
Securities Company (Limited), shall be the ad valorem
duty which, by the Act of the session the 16th and 17th of
Vic., c. 59, sec. 14, was prescribed in the case of mortgages
given by public companies as therein expressed."
Agreed to.