The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-12 00:00:00

•
tjoil similar to that discretionary power with reference
to f.
lie Secretary of State or the rengistrate. The rnagis-
,lte was made to act Ministerially; he had DO tiiscre-
tap,.
• - nor had the Secretary of State any power wht :Laver
▪ St
the proceedings, or prevent the party being de-
vered up.
The Earl of MALMESBURY—Teett is altered now.
Lord BEAUMONT said there come not have been
.1111. Y alteration in the convention rime it was signed. If
e Meant that the clauses of the Bill were altered, they
mould be of no use unless they carried out the cOnVein-
llu„ll which was recited in the preamble. Ho hoped the
"I Would not be preceded with. There was a general
„l
the louse rater tin s object;
seeing the numeroush objeco tionsassist that hadthi arisen,the
:11"Lt eeurse would he to have another convention,
.1,--'°Ddyieg the suggestions that bad been thrown out.
tce seventh clause gave the power to offenders, if
thatged with political offences, to plead as a defence
‘clr extratiitiou under the treaty; but this did not
0o "
fLi.r Enough; he ought to be restored to the country
`vb-net ho had been taken, or at all events have the op-
ttoa of
returnirg if he chose. Some alteration was ab-
42tUtely necessary in the existing convention, which was
'llll of difficulties. Lie doubted whether it would be an
ad"'-'t.-age to have documentary evidence sent over here;
is Probably would not be enough to justify a magistrate
iu committing for trial. If it were to, the miss en accu-
-4'16,37' Would- be a perfectly satisfactory document.
Duke of ARGYLL said it appeared to him that
"Y the terms of the convention, the Secretary of State
t°l43• obliged to deliver up an offender on proof of iden-
PY; but the Bill gave him a discretionary power. The
Government had retained that discretion for
twcmtlelves in the convention. The Bill purported to
"c.ble the Secretary of State to exercise a discretion
the convention did not give him. It was most
irt portant that he should have that power, especially as
the number of offences included in tho treaty was in-
creased from three to twenty, and included such a charge
inaiversatioa in ofiice.
, The Earl of ABERDEEN said the discretion only ap-
plied to one article—article 10—which related to fo-
Ngricrs not Frenchmen. It was most essential that it
Should be extended to all. No one could be more seri-
Sihlu than himself of the necessity of au alteration in the
..,isting law. If the nzise en accusation fulfilled
beennf'ltions laid down, the existing law might have en-
a°reed, and there would have been no necessity for an
saeration.
Lord BROUGHAM said that even if the mice en ac-
cusation were considered tantamount to an indictment,
it would not suffice at present, being a foreign indict-
ttlPut.

~Tag Earl of MALMESBURY suggested that they
seeu 1a ni go into Committee now, allow amendments to be
made, and have the Bill reprinted before Monday.
Lord CAMPBELL said he did not think it proper
thta:t the SEcretary of State of England should be re-
tleced7 as was done by the Convention, which gave a
discretionary power on the French side, but none on
the English. This power could not be introduced into
Bal unless it was in the Convention. He suggested
that the same power should be given on both sides of the
water, sad the same obligations. Lerd Aberdeen's Con-
„velltion had proved ineffectual, because it required the
ith'lne evidence as was necessary to commit a man under
te!' English law. It was now proposed to dispense with
Ise but a discretionery power ought to be retained.
The Earl of MINTO considered that the Bill could
patne be proceeded with to the end, unless they had another
The House then went into Committee.
1111 answer to the Earl of ABERDEEN,
be Earl of DERBY said thA ono of the amendments
ere
Posed to be inserted in the Bill was, that any further
ei:;"?ntiou or stipulation that might be entered into
of °,llegi be considered for the purposes of the Act as part
rti,ne original convention.
Earl ef ABERDEEN remarked that the Bill re-
the,t,"l convention end proceeded to carry it out. It
as impossible then to agree to a convention that had not
been entered into.
Lord BEAU:AUNT took the same view of the case.
Rasa
mode of proceeding proposed by the Noble Lord
very Irish way of legislation.
the" Earl of DERBY sa the convention had received
be assent of two succe idssive Governments, mid had
'n entered into with the French Government in a
most amicable manner. It had received the approval
of
the retest eminent statesmen and lawyers on both sides
of
11,,tue Channel; but from what he had heard that night
Was afraid that if they had half a dozen new convene
ens they would all be objected to. He ventured, how-
er, to say, in spite of the Noble Baron (Lord Beau-
zrtclt), that their -Lordships had nothing to do with the
convention.—(Hear, hear.)
0,1‘,1e Earl ot ABERDEEN insisted that they could not
tell'ert° except on a convention that was already before
~The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the proposed
p-°"0 was to enable her Blejsty to enter into a sup-
:nentary treaty in conformity with the Bill. It.
pow4ltl not in the least interfere with their Lordships'
„pers.
114„4;11° amendments were then agreed to, and the Bill,
po;:t3g gone through Committee, was ordered to be re-
ted on Monday.
The Differential Dues Bill was reported.
Pre-ie Public Works Bill, and the Industrial and
Pas:eLd.dclat Societies Bill were read a third time and
sta, number of private Bills were then advanced a
• t,e, and their Lordships adjourned at a Quarter-past
'‘,ll o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 10,
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Mr u 14; WORKING CLASSES.
le • SLANEY, on the motion that the Speaker do
ayelbe Chair, on going into Committee ot Supply,
alov'
be 4as an amendment, " That it was expedient .that a
shePattment, Standing Committee, or unpaid Commission,
tim le" be appointed, to consider, suggest, and report from
the to time, preventive and remedial measures, to benefit
eo„Siocial condhion of the working classes, and for re-
lie"eg social and other obstacles to their improvement."
said this subject had nothing to do with pirty po-
'es, but was deeply interesting to the vast body of the
po°Ple whose condition was to be embraced by the pro-
,
nto inquiry• The labouring population was divided
the 1,
*0 classes—thoso connected with husbandry, and
s() living in large towns and in the manufacturing
districts The great mass of them had been depressed,
degraded, and neglected for many years, and in a great
tt
iriettisure from the want of proper attention to their con-
I°ll by the Government and the. L^gislature. Ho
thoughtben that if some department or commission had
'4l in existence to watch the condition of the working
4_43Bes, and to suggest measures to remedy the evils that
rrounded them, there would now have been a vast im-
provement among them, both in a physical and moral
ase_
vect. The Honourable Member referred to the reports
45,,t Commissioners and Select Committees to show the
deplorable state of these two great divisions of the people,
and said he attributed the neglect he had mentioned to
tteat social changes which had taken place without any
corresponding alterations of the law, so as to give
them fair play in their altered position. So frequent
Were political changes, that efore a Gvenment ha
Le to direct its attention tbo
subjects ofr this nature
Went out of office; and nothing effectual would be done
for the benefit of the people, unless some such perma-
II:4r, body as he suggested was appointed. The exist-
f g state or,' things produced nothing but discontent, suf-
-"trig, and disease in the country, and ho asked for a
kti'naission on the ground of economy, justice, and right.
bile the comforts of the rich and middle classes had
been vastly augmented, crime had increased three
Bennettk faster than the population, and crime now cost
country upwards of eleven millions annually.
i-elltherto the wealthy had adopted the laissez faire sys-
lti In regard to these great grievances; but there ought
te
What
no longer delay in devising means of amelioration.
4at he wanted for the working classes was instruction
'5 their children, protection to their health, and fair
play and encouragement in regard to the employment
Of their labour.
Lord R. GROSVENOR seconded the motion.
M r. WALYOLE said he was sure that the sincere
benevolence which had always distinguished the career
t'f the Hon. Gentleman deserved to be rewarded;
1/4ild if he thought the means proposed by the Hoe.
Gentleman would be likely to contribute towards
the improvement of the social condition of the working
classes, he should certainly wish, on the part of the
Government, at once to give his assent to this
motion.
With regard to the motion before the
douse lee doubted whether it would really tend
.
It`e benefit of those for whose benefit it was intended.
'"'e doubted whether more information would be gained
Y such a standing commission than was now obtained
bytbe Committees of both Houses of Parliament. A
e wb—e,tression would consist of one or two persons, who
,11,QuId imbibe peculiar ideas and plans on these subjects,
Parliamentarywhich their reports would be founded, while a
toe,Committee would consist of persons who
these' varied and different views, rend in whose hands
I to he considered in
411 tilestionS would be more 1
etootelr bearings. Moreover, he did 1:13t think it judi-
vern:tbz) lead the people to depend rather on the Go-
ORTrat and Parliament than on their own e x elrteitoannst.
,"1-I,ese grounds, therefore, he must give are u 0
Iseettve to the motion of the lion. Gentleman, and h
(I,,,,wetald not press it to a division.
'etrhaieti • LIUOBELL supported the appointment of
Ito ell, which he thought would du no harm, if it did
a.com-
R)ncl.
Ai
41i r3si7 CARTER thought the appointment of this cona-
-44;1 would prevent the appointment of Select Corn-
4etes for special purposes connected with thi, qesonti.
1/0‘
`ter a few words from Mr. PAcKE and An P.
aseevt A, RD the motion was withdrawn, and the House
T-. 44
.i,Vote Committee of Su HE.
EMBASSY OF EMBASSY AT CON-
STANTINOPLE.
th. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
thd' vote which stood to be taken first was the vote for
b a expenses of repairing the chspel of the British Ens_
Beaty at Constantinople. The Government had taken
it at. vote into their consideration since yesterday, and
considerable
to them to be ono of those which required
nsiderable inquiry. The enormous expenditure which
aide!aken place upon the ambassadorial residence
fth Constantino le appeared to him on the sur-
face indefensible. It certainly appeared to him
illtett to spend 85 0001. in ten years was rather too much.
ebc.know it had grown up to a practice, not sufficiently
into"
at a di6tance from this country, to launch out
lay .tileavY expenses of this sort, and without wishing to
1:07 -11 Y blame on their preneeeesers, her Mejesty's Hi-
set.ers wished to take this opportunity of expressing
thdisEatis;action on this head, and therefore, under
these circumstances, he silo -la no' propose to proceed
lamer now with this vote. lit: hear.)
0 ?,Ir. W. PAT rEti said ehtlear' was sled to hear the
rntanniens which had fallen fromotheßig-ht Horn Gentle-
: 6 Li rijr,g *es (:h,ira,,,r, the (!oremittee
the fficial Salaries, he re
expenses of the Embassy at
8 1 that the subject ot
t"uglY pressed thems 1
-e Tel en the notice of the Qom
Constantinople had

T E

• s
mittee, though be was not quite sure whether it bad
been mentioned in their report.;
Votes of 783/. for repsirieg the Ambassador's hot eo
at Madrid, of 1,5951. for the arrears of the late Earl of
Shafteshury's pension due at the time of hie death, and
of 4,000/. for improving the navigation of the 'krettai
Strsits, were also agreed to.
00 the motion that 100,000/. be vote for civil anus
tiogencies,
Mr. ANSTEY rose to object to the following items :
The expense incurred by the Bishop of Barbadoes in his
visitation to the islands of St. Vincent and St. Lu.c is,
32/. ss. 10d.; the expense incurred by the Bishop of
Antigua, for pusseges on his visitation to sevearal
islands within his diocese,
.42/. 8.2. 4d.; the s
pense incurred by the Bishop of Newfoundland on
account of a passage from Newfoundland tp Bermuc's,
on vi,iting that. pert of his diocese, 60/.; the expen so
incurred by the Rev. IL M. Blakiston, on account of h is
passage to Couetantinoole, on his appointment as etas o-
lsin to her Majesty's embassy at trots, pntee, 501.; 1a ar
the entertainment of the Bishop of Victoria, On scvs`r
al
occasions,
board her 'Pt:jetty's steam sloop
visiting the consular cities in China, nu
Ater a le Observations the Hon. Gentleman moved to
reduce the vote by these item,. Reyoard, 921. 1 its.
as
Sir J, PAKINGTON ssid it oppesred to him that the
introduction of the word " bishop" into a vote was sue 1-
e
lent to induce the Gentleman to oppose the vu to.
The question. however, which the Hon. and Learn ed
Gentler:ash had just been discussing was not new, it had
beeu frequently debated end the result of all the discs .s-
-sion was the approvol of the vote on the part of tJ
to
Legislature.
Sir, HUME thought the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
who had introduced this discussion had done nothing Is at
his duty. It might be unjust to call upon the bialnop
to pay these expenses out of his own pocket, but it vi
as
still more unjust to require the country to pry that n.
The fact was, the time had come when they ought to
have some settled principles upon which all these E c-
clesiastical charges should he made upon the public es x-
chequer, and he for one ehould be always ready to oppose
these votes for ecclesiastical purposes in the colonies.
The Church possessed a property of more than 600,000/.
in value, and yet last night they were called upon to
vote 38,0001 for its assistance. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman deserved great credit for introducing this au h-
jecis and he should certainly vote with him if ho pr a-
posed any reduction of the estimate.
Mr. ANSTEY said ho should move that the estimate
he reduced by 300/.
Colonel SIIMIORP was quite as willing to recoin-
mend economy as the Hon. M-,mber for Youghal, or the
Hon. Member for Montrose, but it appeared to him th at
the opposition of the Hon. and Learned Member for
Youghal was not so much directed against ithe
vote as the Established Church, and as he f6r one coo Id
not allow the establishment to be attacked in this manner
be should certainly resist the amendment. He was
nevertheless an advocate of legitimate economy, and as
he could be no party to the Great Exhibition robber y,
he should move to omit the sum of 1,505/. 7s. 6d. fsr
salaries of secretaries, clerks, and messengers for ttSe
Commission for the promotion of the Exhibition of Cote
Works of Industry of all Nation:.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS moved a further reduction of Ole
vote by 1,570/,
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON said this complication, of
amenemonts would lead to great confusion, and he wen ld
suggest that they should be taken separately.
Sir GEORGE PECHELL hoped this was the IS st

--
time they should hear of such au estimai,e as this, and
hoped if it was required next year it would he paid 'yet
of the Secret Service Money.
Lord DUDLEY STUART objected to saddling the
country e ith the expenses of this estimate.
After a few words from Mr. Hamilton, Mr. W. Wil-

hams, and Mr. lieyworth,
Mr. ANSTEY s;oid, to save ODO division, he would a d d
his red actiou of 3001 to that of the Hon. Member fc r
Lambech, who concurred in the fusion of the . tsv o
amendments.
The CHAIRMAN said the larger reduction, which
was that of the lion. Member for Lambeth, would have
to be put first.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared--
For the amendment of Mr. Williams 40
Against it ... 97
Mtjority against it ... —57
The amendment was accordingly lost.
The CnAIRMAN was then directed to report progre s
and the House having resumed, ho did so accordingly.
The remaining twelve o'clock orders were next dis-
posed of, and Four o'clock having arrived, the House re's e.

The House resumed at Six o'clock.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
On the motion of Mr. F. MACKENZIE, it was
agreed that the House at its rising, should adjourn u n til
Monday rent.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
A messenger from the Lords brought up the follosw-
log Bills, to which their Lordships had agreed:—
Apprehension of Deserters from Foreign Ships.
Law of Evidence (Scotland).
Stockport and Marple Read.
Pedmore and Rowley Roads.
Stroud and Sisley Road.
Mecelesfield rand Buxton Road.
Kirkby Stephen and Hawn Road.
Mareden, Gishurne, and Lang Preston Roads, with-
out ansend men t.
Yeovil and Ilchester Turnpike Trusts.
South Wales Railway, with amendments.
PETITIONS.
Mr. THORNELY presented a petition, praying the
House to take steps to increase the supply of guano to
this country.
Sir E. BUXTON presented a petition from a place in
Eseex cgainst the Militia Bill.
Petitions in favour of an ocean penny postage were
presented by Mr. CIIA.RTERIS and by Mr. S. CRAWFC4IID
from Rochdale.
Mr. ELIOT presented a petition from Gallashie,ls,
praying a Government inspection of nunneries.
Mr. OSWALD presented a petition from a place in
Sew land against the grant to May nooth.
Captain 111AGAN wished to ask whether it was the
intention of the Government to bring on the Crime reed
Outrage (Ireland) Bill before the adjournment of the
House that day? The Right Hon. Gentleman el le
Attorney- General had on that morning at half-past tvi
o'clock, in no very stentorian voice, stated that he it '-
tended to bring it on that day. It did not appear on th e
order paper, and he wished to know whether it wculd
come on?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said ha)
proposed taking it on Tuesday morning.
MR. SMITH O'BRIEN.
Mr. V. SCULLY wished to ark a question of the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Attorney-General for Ire-
land. On the cecasion of the present Government
coming into power it was understood by many of the
friends of Mr. Smith O'Brien in Ireland, that if a pro-
perly-worded memorial was prepared, the present Go-
vernment would be disposed to mitigate the sentence
passed upon that unfortunate
gentleman. It was, indeed,
stated that the Government wished such a memorial to
ho presented. He wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, and he hoped ho would have a fair and frank
answer, whether he had not revised the memorial,
whether he had not corrected it, and whether he had
not stated that it should receive his supp,rt?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND (Mr.
Napier) would state ail the facts connected with the
roemorial. He and his Right HOD. Friend the Solicitor-
General were counsel for Mr. Smith O'Brien. The
Solicitor General acted for him at the trial, and he him-
self had been counsel before the House of Lords and had
presented a petition in his behalf after he had been
sentenced to transportation. Ho was also on terms of
great intimacy with many of his friends and relations,
particularly his brother, the Rev. W. O'Brien, and the)
Hon. Baronet the Member for Clara was also one of his
intimate friends. After the present Government came
into power the friends of Mr. O'Brien waited upon him
entirely in the • capacity of a private friend, to consult
with him whether anything could be done in the way of
a mitigation of punishment. The conversation was en-
tirely confidential and private, but he distinctly stated
that he could take no part whatever in his official cepa-
city, as it was impossible the Government could do any-
thing, as it would be at once set down as being, done for
political purposes and electioneering considerations. He
had never taken upon himself to state what the Govern-
ment would do on the subject. Ail his communications
were simply those of a private friend, and arising out of
the sympathy ho entertained for the friends and rela-
tives of Mr. O'Brien. Ho never did hold out, nor
was he aware that any person on the part of. the Go-
vernment ever held out, any intimation or any hope as
to what the Government would do, nor had he directly or
indirectly pledged himself that the Government would
attend to any memorial that might be got up. He trusted
that explanation would be satisfactory.—(Hear, hear.)
DIPLOMATIC SERVICE.
Mr. EWART begged to ask the Under-Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs whether any measures have
oven adopted for the examination of candidates for ep-
ponatment and promotion is the diplomatic service in the
country; and whether there will be any objection to lay
beton) the House a return explanatory of such measures,
as has been done in the case of the different revenue
boards, the navy, the marine, and more lately (by the
Duke of Wellington) in the case of examinations of
candidates for the army?
Lord sTANLEY;atyshtohawtnaso
sindistinctlyreturns hvelaerrde iinnthe
proposed. Instructions had been
gi,,:tilelnecrye,ocroubldadonblyeen
sent to the Government agents abroad to collect befor-
e_ as they were anxious the first place to asccr-
M4tion, p r
tit)
bc ttiacien
eidn,
tontehye r h o countries.pe
d tn
bI Whoat()
tdthat
s:i
rhistaootramiweaatsi
otni;
plan, but,,a,s yewtansoondeefionfitsinvemsucchhemehad
import-
ance, that he ras' q
him that no steps ought
the
muist'e3jsruere the Hon. Gentleman and
been prepared;
the House would
• give the Hon. Gentleman a more de-
could not at present
agree with
to be taken hastily or without full consideration. He
finite answer.

Right
'IORSMAN ,aid it bad
CHURCH. DISCIPLINE,
Benneititr i❑ the
of Oxford
Sion. been suggested by the
Gentleman the MLeanbn for the Universiry
dom(itexf7d that when he moved the appointment of the
It!ght Hon. Gen Zea
. o the vienrac, . ' ' i.t 'I be prop` to
lay on the table t,-, "a of Frame It woutu. ,
heads of the allegations)
case of the in Of the Rev. Mr.
this was according : added that ho Could show tn.., 1
and !ca.
could not give the Ili Itrf o,.(knt. At the moment b©
but he had since. considered the Gentleman an answer,
pared now to :illy that if the 0 Tatter, and he WO pre-
could satisfy the House that Thq .
wh t,ht. lion. Gentleinau
conformity with precedent he w:uticlle proposed was in,
the House, and comply with his se,e.lZ7,„t° the wishL of
to ad; the Ri4lit Hon. Gentk,man the "e wigged
Exehy(p.wr whi,ther lie -,:uld.nik.tv -,.,1-?queellor of the
the liOaltili,Lue eiwer in tile morning ,;;;q: 1", "•,',7'i"'fA
or RI the afternoon sitting, bccauso otherwise
.i..unt.L.iy,
not eom® on till after the other orders, so it
.would
i when it was