The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-07 00:00:00

came in, they resolved on adopting the other course of
consolidating by reference. He did not mean to say that
cinsollda.ii,n by reference was supnrinr, or even equal,
to absolute consolidation; but to Lay that the word con-
solidation was used merely for the sake of form, and ti
the Bill did not really consolidate, was a statement which
no Hon. Gentleman was justified in making.
Lord J. RUSSELL had heard the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman speak of consolidation by reference before, but
it was quite impossible to gather a meaning from it. If
they brought in a Bill that did not repeal the former
laws, it was obvious that all the parts of those laws
which were not inconsistent with the new Bill remained
in full force ; but it was clear that that was not consoli-
dation. If, a!ter deliberation, the Government had de-
termined that it was not advisable to consolidate, their
proper course would have been to discharge the order as
it stood, have brought in another Bill simply to
" amend" the militia laws, and then to have followed
the course adopted by Sir Robert Peel i❑ 1842, and al-
lowed every Member of the House to have ts copy of
the Act which they intended should remain in force.
True, that would not have answered the purpose of
consolidation, but it would have afforded an explana-
tion of the actual nature of their measure.
Mr. WALPOLE believed that, in considering the
measure now under discussion, Hon. Members had
nothing further to do in order to understand its provi-
sions than to take the Act 42 George 111. as its
basis, and the Bill itself as the basis of the voluntary
principle.
Mr. COBDEN said the question which had been raised
on that side of the House was, why Hon. Msmbors had
not the details of the laws they were going to re-enact
laid before them. These Acts of Parliament were vir-
tually expired Acts.—(oh, oh, and no.) Why for 20
years they had been inoperative.—(No.) At all events
they had been suspended during that period, and noir
the proposition was to revive them. What he wanted,
therefore, was, that the House should see the provisions
which they were now called upon to re-enact. The
Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton (Lord Palmerston)
had certainly shown a degree of inconsistency upon this
question, which he (Mr. Cobden) had scarcely ever seen
exceeded in that House, and he had seen a great deal
of it there; but the Noble Lord might rest assured
that he should not be permitted to smuggle the provi"
sions of the Act of 1802 through the House without
discussion.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, in allusion to Mr.
Cohdon's statement that the Act 42d George 111. was
inoperative, and therefore the same as if it did not
exist, reminded the Hon. Member that from time to time
Acts of Parliament had been passed suspending the bal-
lot under that Act, thus showing that it was an existing
law, and that the very last Act which did this was the
14th and 15th of her Majesty's reign.—(Hear, hear.),
He contended that this was a very inconvenient mode et
raising the question submitted to the Committee, eat
moreover that it was not the proper stage of the Bill
upon which it ought to be raised. As to the statement
made by the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) that this Woe
not a consolidation Bill, he begged to say that long
before it came to the second reading, which involved
the question of principle, the House was fully informed
with regard to the character and decription of the Bill.
And he apprehended that, if it were the intention of the
House to admit a Bill which did not consolidate, a god
would be taken against the measure then. The ques-
tion now raised was virtually this, whether they were
to have a militia Bill or not. The objections of the
Noble Lord (J. Russell) were clearly intended to defeat
the Bill, notwithstanding the pledge he had given on
former night. He (the Attorney-General) doubted Yell
Bill which could emanate from the present Govern-
ment woul satisfy the Noble Lord; indeed, if they bad
taken up his own Bill, he questioned if the Noble Lord's
ingenuity would not have discovered some reason or
other for opposing it.—(Hear.) He hoped the Cole"
mittee would not adopt the amendment of the lion. Mee"
her for Montrose. for it would virtually deprive them of
Militia Bill, and leave the country without that defence
which a majority both in this House and out of it
deemed to be absolutely necessary,—(Cheers.)
Sir W. P. WOOD could not sit silent whilst the atop'
tion of the House was diverted, and purposely diverted,
from the details of the Bill, which ought now to be the
subject of their deliberations, to the consideration of thee ,
personal conduct of his Noble Friend late at the head of
her Majesty's Government. That course was adopted
first by the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton (Lord
Palmerston), who, upon the introduction of his Noble
Frieed's Bill, and whilst professing to throw aside all
considerations of party, directed the whole of his ad-
dress to prove that his Noble Friend had acted with
inconsistency upon the question. The attack of toe
Noble Viscount was then followed up by a Lord of the
Admiralty breaking, as he told the House, a twenty
years' silence—for what? Not to discuss the Militia Bill,
but, in his turn, to tell the Noble Lord again that
he was inconsistent. And to-night the attack on the
Noble Lord was continued by the Learned Attorney'
General. His main objection to bringing forward this Bill
at all was, that having waited now for two months since
the resolution of the House on the subject was passed,
they had come to a period of the session when in reality
no practical results under the Bill could be obtained Pre"
vious to their assembling again in the autumn. It, then'
her Majesty's Government found they could not &lobe
sufficient leisure to consolidate the laws relating t° r
militia, let them permit the whole Bill to stand ;310et,
until they could undertake that necessary task. Ads2'
s,
independently of the consolidation of the other "-
they ought not to re-enact, uno liatu, in the year
all the provisions 18
of an Act (the 42d of George
90) which was passed in 1802. For when they were re'
minded by the Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston) that the?
had alterations by'steam in navigation, and itoPreve;
ments in other matters peculiar to modern 03'
they should also remember that they bad had variuti
improvements in the laws relating to soldiers. ed
Lord PAL6dERSTON said that his Hon. and Learn
Friend (Sir P. Wood) had made such pointed allusion t
him that he must make one or two observations.
e=t
Hon. and Learned Friend complained that he bad nor:
comprehended any argument which be (Lord Palmeet
store) had used in favour of a militia force. He ha .dttt'e
addressed himself to his Hon. and Learned Friend. A
never preached to the converted; he took for gran ire
that his Hon. and Learned Friene, having supported t 7.
Noble Lord at the head of her Majesty's late Gayer°,
ment in bringing in a Militia Bill at tho beginning.hie
the session, was fully and deeply impressed with te
,"
absolute necessity—(Loud cheers)—of the imtneol,
organization of a militia force to provide for the qv
fence of the kingdom, and therefore he was svhe't
out of his (Lord Palmerston's) view in any argument
he had used for the purpose of showing the necessity od
such a measure. But when his Hon. and Learned Fiend
found fault with him for having taxed with inconstr
tency those who, like him, having supported a jr„-
litia Bill in the beginning of the session, had, VI e.r,
out of office, and when other parties
a Bill similar to their own, turned round upon those.
parties, opposed their measure—and when his lion, and
Learned Friend found fault with him on account of his re':
marks being insufficient and inadequate to convey hole.
views, his only reply must be, humbly to refer his Ile_
bad brought in
and Learned Friend to the Noble Lord the Chief Coma
missioner of the Board of Works (Lord Seymour)
the
to the Right lion. Gentleman the late First Lord of tteth
Admiralty (Sir F. T. Baring), as the one by his Weise
and the other by his vote had condemned the incelleo
tency of his Hon. and Learned Friend; and be had .9
doubt that a private conference—(Laughter)—with thine
two Right Hon. Gentlemen would convey to his la
those impressions which his (Lord Palmerston's) apse
had failed to do.—(Cheers and laughter.)
Sir P. WOOD did not complain of the Noble L°l
not having converted him by his arguments on the 0" '
but what he complained of was, that notwithstandiad
the Noble Lord's (Lord John Russell) Bill was adrat,ite.,
to be almost identical with that brought in by her
jesty's present Ministers, which the Noble Lord OP;
latepo rt e
Primethe
Minister Nob
eLordve
nwtoou
bl de not
broughtallowi
nt,h e B
that it required a total alteration before it was lies° a
on the grelto
to obtain from it an efficient defence of the country, aria
yet the Noble Lord now assured them that he reet
meant nothing at all.
Lord PALMERSTON had not said that the two Bills
were identical. But whether the Bills were identical °e
Bill of tba
not, his conduct would not be identical with that of
hick
late Government—he should not throw over a Bill wkiv.
he thought to be a necessary measure on account or "
mere verbal difference.
Mr. M'CULLAGH supported the amendment.
Mr. E WAR r rose amidst impatient and long "
tinned cries of "Divide, divide." htain
Mr. HUME rose, as his Hon. Friend could not o
a hearing, and moved that the Chairman report Pregrear
in order that he might appeal to the Speaker whethedin
not the business of the House could not be conducted
a manner more satisfactory to the country? ,Th.,•de")
Mr. EWART (amidst renewed cries of " op-
again rose to support his lion. Friend's motion, °serve
pealed to the Chairman if it was not possible to Pre joe
order in the House. lion. Gentlemen who were sO old
patient might apply to themselves the words of the
ballad—

" I see a hand thou can'st not see,
Whioh beckons me away;
I hear a voice thou can'st not hear,
Which will not let me stay."
—(oh, oh). nort
The CHAIRMAN put the question that bererhut
progress, and the gallery was cleared for a division, "0
none took place. On our return to the "
found
Tie CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER aci„a/ieilail:
jug the Committee. He hoped they would not waso"/
impossible,
was. sure the Hon. Gentleman must see that it in
ampossible, at times, in a
rigid discipline, or repress those indiscretions ef,„nor
popular assembly to inainttabo
momentof which occasionally broke forth when the te":.,ras
the House was ruffled. He was sure the Hoes ^
goy'
always pleased to hear the sensible remarks of the: y, so
Member for Dumfries (Mr. Ewart), from ichulca;i 130
much information could be derived; and he '-
doubt they would now hear the lion. Gentleman. .00)
Mr. HUME (amidst much noise sud interruptlbe
said if there was wanting any further reason state of
:should press his motion, in order to report the st,e of
the House to the Speaker, it was that the lea had
the House (the Chancellor of the Exchequer),l"oo.
caber 1).
had no more attention paid to him than any
Member. viz 500
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQU'-A
that was a very sigular observation of the Hon• re_bst
man. It was difficult for one person to ascertao
by
degree of attention was paid to what was going ofd
another. He remembered •the Noble Lord (I°` 000
Russell) had been charged with being asleep lied Upon
occasion, when he subsequently rose and rep lie.
every point that had been raised during then time
..nc:`.; a
been charged with being asleep. Some ireulgen
mood of abstraction, and very often appeared inettFn,_"to
when they were most attentive. Ile did nut WI!? ue
speak of himself, but after what had been just satl. L'„
must say that he really did attend to what was said 17.7
k Hon. Gentlemen.