The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-04 00:00:00

TILE SUN,

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......m......... ar0n0..........
hate brought the measure forth so early seeing that the was quite justified in introducing the former kind
point
tliPs„ rt had only been livered that day.,. He thought council into his constitution. There was another pout
not question requiren so much consideration that it Was upon which he couli not gather what was the phasic()
a" Possible to pass it in the present session of Perna- intention of the Wght lion. Gentleman. The question
tient`, The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) be in this colony
been used to
was not the mere giving ofd a eonstitutiou
eutt tit had gone rather too far when- he said thfs to a number of British subjects who had . . _ .
meta wades- be a boon to the colony, lie (Mr. the working of the representative machinery in thus
ea:ts) did not think that was all they had to consider. country; but there were 100,000 or more of the native
en...`! regard to the land sales they must consider. population; some of -whom were undoubtedly makings
e'!,!ther the course proposed would not give great dissa- great advances in civilization, but- others of whom
ehaetion
Iles, n Australia. lle hoped the Right Hon. Gen- were not teuoh advanced om thc state
Gentleman
which they
tahso would understand that if they allowed him to orientating were. Now the Right Hon. G
nativepro--
held. the quelification to-
lie in the Bill it was for the purpose of their exam- parddt,litatthewhßerriteisah
settlers; he -should-have the same
lie at_r Papersandhhe Bill; and that ample time would gn
tt,:et,!.. consider it. . _ rightre to vote, and the same franchise, as a British
Nth tete ME was not satisfied with the statement of the settler. That would be a convenient arrangement in a
in ' lion; Gentleman. He had expected Government restricted settlement,
. but where they had a settlement
Boy ild have stated what their policy would be with re- of considerable limits they would give the franchise .to
tsqat?,o4ll-hur colonial establise- cs t ots Whatever they a considerable number, of the native population, who
With
fl;', with regard to Crown lend!, "the ought to deal would be ignorant as to. the mode of carrying - on. an
Cott all Colonies on the same principle.. .And it they election; or selecting proper representatives. On the
Ulm," 0 to have nominees in 'the Legislative Conned, other hand, it would be felt a great grievance if any
en' would never give satisfaction to the colonists. An. differsnco was placed between fhern and the settlers,' and
aosor, thing he had expected to have heard semehhing chile' was the great difficulty of 'Sir G. Grey. .Sir. G.
!heat was with regard to the expense of the colonies to Grey ,7a, a very OA' mate but he knew that with
th mother country. They had not heard a word about thew 100,000. natives it ' would have been very d.ffiehilt
as The
Ina s Y were told by Lerd Grey, twob or three to prevent ialprope4 Acts from passing ; mad yet to
which the have deprived them of the franchise would have been a
taheTo, that measures were in progress by
ttael_revrere to bear their own expense, and be was, very considerable grievance. How the Right Hon. Gen-
Itst
stose much disappointed at not hearing anything on tleman proposed to deal with this matter he did not at
Whild eject. The Right lion. Gentleman.had said he present entirely understand. The • pint was, what
lie reserve something for the civil list. He (Mr. wouldu be the limit ofehe General Assembly's jurisdic-
Three) did not think he ought to reserve anything. tio ?
e colese With respect to the measure itself, he should be
itd a sts ought to have the ge.neral ma.uheement, happy to afford it every facility in his power.
to ,‘ was child's play to keep them in the leadin;strings . Mr. AGLIONBY was strongly opposed to the
4•4ll:nalch they were now- kept. He thought this was not placing of the lands in the bands of the colonists until
tat e'nre that ought to take up the time of the House— they had paid off the debt. 'The New Zealand Company
. it
i Tres not a measure of exh-ency to be passed this had a lien upon those lauds, and it had. certainly done
%kn :-..
much to entitle it toThe cerisidetation of the loonsh '" 1
Sir le
F • , • MOLESWORTH said When his Hon. having purchased all the rights.of the French settlers,.
tisnd
leis T, the Member for Montrone observed that there and mede the island an entirely British colony. it.tnes..
? -0 ureen, with regard to this measure, be should removed the lands from the Crown,
'seine h. Y and be entreated. the •
ble claim;
ea t teat the measure of 1846 was a far leis liberal lose its only statute.
hof faith. Reser-
ehe company would
le7a)Lll7d that if this measure did not pass, they would House not to sanction such a brae_
that
~ ge'l to pass an Act for the purpose of suspending ence had been made to the Crown lands of the Australian
is
het
for another year. Now, to the passing of such colonies, but there was a ales!in the two colonies—inas-
tje wet he should offer all the opposition in his power. tween the. royal d, important difference bee.
tiwe 48 anxions that the settlers in New Zealand should much es th New' `Zealand more than 9-100 as of them
~ as sri.etlil
1 eel _ ...et- yas possible the management of their. had come into the possession of the . Crown under the
itCB"oatt irs, both for their own sakes and for the sake of Act of 1847. The only. mode in which they could out
Gordian knot would be to give the company a home
teeed'S:trY, being firmly convinced that until they ob-
hlditur'e no
of
stole would ever be put to theimmensti ex- the
guarantee, instead of its present security. This would be.
the cheapest coarse, fur combined with -.proper referine,
ear.). ioio this country for the coloniel.—(Hear,
hirkable colonyone respect New Zealand was the most re- they might save it by 10,0001. or 1-5,0001, a year. ' At
Ilse number
of country ever bad—in proportion to allevents, ho supported this grant of a constitution to
settlers and its existence, it had cost the people, of New Zeeland.
ll'klitae• larger suns of money than any other colony. Mr. GLADSTONE e suggested
that the pion referred
15g_one for the civil,
let" the last eleven years no less than 1,600,000/, t. as having been prepared by the late Colonial Gueern-
military' . and naval expenditure mess: should be laid on the teble•
of the House.
iiit:eCted with that colonY•—(Hear, 'hear.) He• had Goland THOMPSON begged to offer the Right Hon..,
llieetied with great attention to the- speech of the Gentleman (Sir J. Pakington) a, warmer. congratulationh
Lasht..llonourable Gentleman,. and although. ho should than any that he had yet heard. Did- the Right Hon.
titiCrerY at that moment to give an opinion on the de- Gentleman know that he' was proposing a system ofe
le et the measure, he thought it one of the most colonial policy that would put into our possession as
eel
ea% constitutions that had ever been offered to a much of the empire of the world as an.honeet man would
its,3'"-(lieare hear.) He agreed with him that there wish to acquire? He thought that a few moments
thatHl one central council; ho disagreed with him might be useiully employed in pointing out the import-
, hithell' e should be nominees. He agreed with the ante of the principle which the Right lion. Gentleman
sy
It eaeuon. Gentleman that, from the peculiar manner has been the fortunate means of bringing forward and
theatiect:ti New Zealand had been colonisecl,thaintutthituey. putting into execution. The great bang and injury of.
our colonial system bad always been the difference of
ti,hia a eveloP as much as possible municipal
lea, 'at they should divide the colony into six pro- races; but now of that difference 'the Right. Hon. Gen-
'he i
and that each province should have a provincial tieman was likely to see the end.' We were now in the
le tit with a president; and, in his opinion, the pro• same position towards the natives as that in which lis-
1414 ought to be elected by the inhabitants of the pro- tory informed us the Romans stood to our rude' fore-
stiir l• • fathers. The Right Honourable Baronet had given them
ze iiiv-h;,SerrOTT said with regard to the observation of evidence that the native inhabitants of that colony were
rld Cos' "hon. Gentleman, that the proposal with re- as nearly as possible in the condition our forefathers
t '5 ,drown lands would create a ferment in Australia, were. He was not sure whether .our forefathers ate
heet(luld assure him that the ferment that already hay body, but it was quite
.certain . they roasted
its rid there on that subject could hardly be increased, them.—(Leughter.) These natives were to . partici..
tattled was highly necessary that that question should be pate in the benefits of the constitution of this country;
tlesaesnd the principle recommended by Government and he hoped that when the present race of states-
-44,344 in this Parliament. Seeing that it would be men had long passed from this sublunary scene the
tea TY if some such Bill as this did not pass to carry Right Hun. Baronet would be quoted as having laid
theettanltteinrseiolunrmAecit,e,surely it ought to be the desire of the foundation of an empire more extensive than would
ta ._ sitting on the other side of the House, otherwise have fallen to our share.—(hear, hear.) It
(eta. "wooers should be carried Which conferred on the had not been stated what was to• be the qualification of
thi.„ IBts extensive power of legislation', rather than that the elected; if it was to be the same -as that of the eke-
krr'llihild carry a suspension Act tors he sheuld b© quite content. Lie did not approve. of
Zitsahii• ROVV AHD believed that 'the colonists of New the proposal that 7,0001. should be expended for the
hoes'" were most anxious for representative institu- benefit of the natives. Why should ' they be treated as
'The
teed'v great difficulty Parliament had had to con- children?j •
its 4„ tem was the constitution of what might be called Ste O.HN PAKINGTON said that after the cordial
tjaahli r house of assembly. Unless the representative manner in which his proposal had been received, he felt
tiet" was infused into the upper assembly, he did not sanguine, with every disposition to meet all fair amend-
t4ighl Te, could give Permanent satisfaction. There meets, that theilt
aneniyghntbibeeuctoinmno law this reesien. Ho
to his measure from
the 025
.something said in favour of the retention of had not anticipated
Of ai,"ll list, but he thought it desirable that the salaries such a friend to local sell-government as the Lion.
4esseleers should ' bu regulated by those who had) Member fofir
tosuttartoesme.entH, a wished to supply an ends-
hushon the financial part of the ,
New Zealand for their home. Having said thus sion in his
Brs
a statement in his hand, he found that
Ilirtte Didoe trusted that nothing would revert the House question.
expenditurey of this country for the govern-
'l) stfer eeed.ing with the Bill during the present session, the annual Z- Ind not including the maintenance of
ths slued his thanks to the Right Hon. Gentleman for ment of. New. flea ah ,
d fluctuated from 20,000/. up to
llioa and he
and zeal which he had shown on this aces,- the military force,
this' he should earnestly enter on a consideration of 36,0001. a year. In aaddition there was a vote in 1843
of 21 0001., for additional ex-
an,jeontisertant 'subject with a view to give our fellow- of 54,0001.;
Ishtar aln that country something like English repro- pauses aboveatuhdeisnumlBssohe had, mentioned: In the esti-
e l
Sir Vin's year he hoped
mates of colonial expenditureofotrilhenepxretsent year, this
ktisosS N. BUXTON said he had listened with great item would be reduced to 10
ht e, -.-I`lort to the statement of the Right Hon. Gentle- it would only be 5,000/.; and after that there was every
th aeat with regard to the franchise there should be reason to believe that New
hZealandar would be altoge-
.) Ile had beili toked
tetsse reuse between the Bill of the Right Hon. Gen- ther self-supporting.—(lie ear,
tieg and that of Earl Grey.' He rose for the purpose as to the limits to be as.igned toe. the several provinces.
state Illg the Right Hoe. Gentleman whether he could Sir George Grey, in his last dispatch, stated that each
1i41y19154t number or Proportion of the natives were of the British settlements had now attracted to it a sar-
i° Ilia's nave votes in this new franchise? It seemed rounding population of the native race; the two races
Nana that the measure was a very fair scheme for the stood to eaeh other in the relation of landlord and tenant
tad f fat a NOW Z -gland, and would give happiness and were insensibly forming one community.tiTe(lEit,tifir.,
tlrr'':,,n to the native pepulation.—(Hear, hear.) hear.) These natives were entitled to share
I°l4 'll-,DERLEY said that almost the only point loes of their fellow-citizens. They were 120,0.0c0.vin.
til-ttlieg_rate,d upon his ear throe hour the Right Hon number;
. they varied very much in their degree of i. i
si n. 'nail 8 address was where he thought it necessary liz Atm) ; many lived in districts which. might not be in-
itere'er into statistical information with regard to the eluded in the different provinces; and it was to promote
i,l 43e of the population and commerce of New their civilization, by schools and other means, that
ite;s,nd, in order to persuade the Housethe col my the 7,000/. was proposed to
.he voted.
.The Governor
she a)iofor representative goverumen:.W thathy years ago would be empowered to prescribe the limits of the &I-
sm ~ tie was fit for it.—(lelear, hear.) fills House fernnt provinces; and there would no doubt be a very
it. hot
glitii '', the acknowledgment over and over again; and large district which wouldh not be contained in th, se
the aterwa
t ke, the Crown had given tx-brohdeveognition of noes. Sir George Grey proposed to introduce mu.
provinces.
„thin ta`;-(licar, hear.) And he was etthnished to find nicipal arrangements. for the different classes; and he
netted' tl'Y gentlemen who called in question the believed the object respecting which the
.Noble Lord
kttiptlac'nf.
Gentleman
with ' this measure now were the_ Russell) bad put a question. would be attained. But,
lab. f entiman (Mr. V. Smith) sad the Hon. certainly, the Central Legislature would have a general
-
former' er Montrose (Mr. Hume). With regard to the, control over the whole oi the islands. He had no objec•
hiti, that Bight
}Jon. Gentleman must have made up lion to the plan of' Sir George Grey being printed for
Werellirld on the subject long ago, when his friends the use of the ['souse. .
titretinntietf4),Ces he himself inplan had
Lord J. RUSSELL said that never been duly
the Cabinet, and 'the pre-
') le ' the measure had drawn near its close. As considered by
tits '3 Hon. Member for el spoke of Leave was then
the Legislature..
given to introduce the Bill. •
1 he , • Montrose, who
hee sesstty of
,' THE MILITIA BILL.
relieving* this country . from
ten, ePenditure on account of the colonies, before On the motion that the House should go into Committee.
(4, Ad measure as the present was, introduced, he on this Bill, '
IN fat iderleY) would tell the Hon Member frankly Mr. COBDEN'rose and s. p.ok.follows : -2Mr. Spaakeore
°f s-1.137 that he should do justice. before he talked Had the majority in the division on the second reachng t
ber 'sotto
-tete h 111 Y, and 'give to the colonists their rights this Bill fairly represented either the population or the
ealgd 0 threw upon them the expense of government, wealth of this country,eitber I should not have ventured to offer
144 s: pas the only colony'. Ea gland ossessed whichhighest Minister
oae word more, to resist or. delay progress of the
r But I have the sanction of the .
It en Ytning like its own rights, and was, moreover, be
Witterri'sved. the only colony from which England, couldanalysed
. .I save
°Crown for, the course
listsl have taken on this question.
I have taken' the division and them;. and,
sear upon
it
troops.-•-(Elear,' hear%) He' would not amongst that large majority of 2to 1 who. voted in favofurtheef
its pti"Pon the details of the measure in its present stage; the Militia Bill, I
tel
not the reeresentatives any o
of
and thliCiPle would be discussed on tilts second reading, large centres of intelligence, industry,.and. wealthlh,dofthanyre.
Conan!' details would, of course, be reserved for the our large city populations. In the minority
h tenr Binening-
Istesg Ittee. But he would take that opportunity of ex- presentatives of Edinburgh, Glasgow,
stere,tig his gratitude,. and he was authorised also to a 111
ecb °ens e , ' Lambeth,
tleae2 the gratitude of the colony represented by gee- ham, Westminster, Southsv_arrekenwillclNaL
Tower Hamlets, Finsbury,. G h Ythe largest of our
hseal" now in London, to th© Right Lion. Baronet for boroughfi venrl:..agtenneciiiepse,rt,also, Newcastle, Hull,Southatnpton,
Worcester, Sheffisld, Northamp-
heees,Fso Promptly, upon taking office, recognised the u
eesae'"S? of this measure, and addressed himself Si) vi- toln,(flu'ddersfield, Aberdeen, Canterbury, Montrose,i. Bath,deh
It undee, Coventry, Leicester,' Preston. The City of
Icn,__4ily to bringiog .it forward.— Year, hear.) He Leeds and Liverpool were divided on this question.
11_7 that it was a considerable task, and that the Right
Jest, Gentleman bad'epared noanvass
another place were also divided ; but the twot Members
pains to master tee sub- who voted for the militia have declined again c
Gil . and !hough, he felt that upon several oints of de- for their seats. Middlesex and West.lorbkesheitreeteareefd.ipvided.
.public
q`:
,ho differe& widely from the Right- Honourable I can say for myself, knowing what is t
tp Ilielnan, Yet he knew the feeling in the colony opinion in West Yorkshire, that next to free trade there is
ef le
so, strong with reg„4 to the urvacy
its the measure, that he WUS pot,of the Militia
no one questionter en
which
re-election I wouldt
h
aheemeonrieepfepaereleerssly go to that
.deletariltsh.eandits'er•'.uprAint)g' tl(lfe
'44 Cant ,nt—he was grateful' '''eti'Y content and more constituency.cb s
Bal.—
kalltrging t'hose differences as to
rather than take the altk•rna'ive of a
Bill
a. dednidtioanilttobethliesrgteesttnwwe
uheaivhe
tBbooe
ka;tgi.-
tions against the ,
it.
isaature proposed,opposition to We have not had one the
iither suspension of the constitution of New Z,saland. i
lion. Gentleman's
. dot are is .
I,t4tlre wpm two points in the Bill, however, to which he ,the Government is not competent to proposesuch
nor one meeting in its favour.- (Cheers.) I do not pretend
?isathbautt
these facts alien' fair ground, at ail events, why
litt: anxious of directing the Right
b Mien, and the first was the composition of I should' move a reconsideration of the measure. - (Hear,
the hear.) I wish there facts to be known, not only in this
tsilai)s; r Chamber. That it should be composed of the country but in a neighbouring country. I wish them. to
ins-flees of the Crown WAS, he thought, a great blot .know that the great centres of intelligence and population
lase the measure, for the system of nun:at/untie stunk
tae in this country do not join with those gentlemen in i
Weal e nostrils of the colonists, and theand who
proposed chamber Ilouse who call themselves statesmen, forsooth,
_. , -
...14,1 ,
othc: 00 a mere caricature of
.in .
our House of Lards. The rise in their places- possessing great authority on other gins
posittou winch
th, ',Point was the very subordinate .
_, et' • , • this d tell us
ions which is evidently lost on - anthat we are
tv wt:iroVinci I L .
a egts atu la danger
l res would be placed. The
~,,•from our neihbours, and must he prepared for in-
Iti-," he wholly under the control of
the Central Legis- "
thoon uy a horde of savages.—(Laughter.) It is evident
Itt 'tt'i and • -fthat body would be the only i g s
.e ja. ae great mass of the intelligent people of this country
tesa ,in act,
constitution, he a, s e ieve --( eers. or
these the colony. In so framing the 64 the exp. essiun of opion that the population are indifferent to
4 "t the Right H . •Beronet
rt bef 0 on. -th
was putting . , u security of the realm. Hive oave the
It contemplated on other copulation acted
"'tin - °re the horse."—(Laughter.) °mash) ?S na ir Walter Scott tells us-- .
al Legislature "On
Wineiig..hubjects in the handa of the -Central a sudden the land seemed converted to an immense
the I'rovin- camp, the whole nation into old
etas would be better under the control of
a:he himself into a General '
iTldiers, and the l good King
hi' h'efti 1 ' A 'llustration of la° appeared fur a time -
11tht a inures; ano as an i
n • lay
thein-Chief.considered All peacefu .
me to be thrown aside, and the voice calling
Ibentiland fund.
might a. on the
diminished than
1114 l'en. Gentleman had rather Parliament, and in meetings convoked
fs eyed statesmanlike aurae of defence, but was heard in to second . the mea-
hsteee the provision which formed a
there ment, and mingled even • the places of public amuse-
"tied - in the plan of Earl Grey. What fear with the voice of devotion."
he bs of •
'et s-ht of eel Adderley) was - %it their land funds, he kr. a auestion as on all others, wnere it i -
of this 11 us ? (Cis
deuce 0 e eera • •
s ne,essary, take prece-
Mth Yat a 10was eaten up• / How is a that they have
)., ho loss to conceive. The colony
s the lead ?—(l.l.ear hear '•
had 410 ixj. the colonistsnot believethat' '
b use they do
) Simply and solely
~_ ne smanagement. Six years ago
daysea
_becauset.believe any groundlor an
'',i stileste . • • Secretary per- in of alarm, and
1 '‘i,in , dof the Colonial of that they they havealready
hods ~,i build lighthouse
toe atom
abundant sacrifices out of their resource. ir
~.. a at Port Nicholson;
,made .
icieet to
eallotiere
trial ready,and all that was required was that the meet all the dangers that may impend over time
ocountry.
Poea ine_ecretary should get an Act passed for the pur- 1
i They thinh,a
which would build a Manchester ornaey(lllans:
__o4) Presetl British Parliament. Yet from that day to j /amity—
a Celli har-‘that in the present state of the affairs of
twlly the the lighthouse was not built. In the same 1 gew every Y
there is no necessity why they should leave their
I"it. h q bad been unable to get moorings put down in the world
ehh
,„ her ations and turn soldiers in their own defence
il looked f d now, however to a rofitable occup
(Hear, hear.) lam going to deal your
~ `o„,e ~. e orwar
nest- ofall that and he could not but express his so
4i t()% flat ' ' at a shilling a daY•-• with your army, but with your
the present occasion, not wi
been taught, to consider the safeguard
eatae, at the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir J. Pa- which we have
of old England" cost a
°1:14,, ") had not allowed the colonists to -suffer from a navy,
" wooden walls . .
es lle of , The of England. e it is the opunonuf the country
. rt tioth, (eovernment here at home, with which they
s 1 to this country ; and
t us• tVe vote 6,500,0001
", dr; "Ing to do, but that he had deemed it his duty great deal
be able to protec :
11 'eg in that they ought to
including
the packets
IS e e00,,,_.:. me easure conferring censtitutioinal rights on.• for our navy and establishments,navae.and
I include those,arbewcaeuusbei
bein
iie ceasny'stin n behalf of
he pegged
and of
thankt to agenta
hot for, the Post. e
effiasethe very brunt of tthbeenw
Si"' %Int this Country, egg().the 14 the case of hostilities, the Govern-
heron , °man for having placed the subject with such borne by those packets, which are larger
or run
tor s 4bilit would.e able
to catch anything,
le e-, y before' the House. ' ' - • meta steamers, and of the
sac they are,oneb
than . ''• RUSSELL thou htherefore 1
g..t the Right Hon. Gentle- . away from anthing;
.... back to
lla WouldOlean) , Gu'Ug
Ito have been justified in merely introducing a i most essentials parts of the navy._ 0
„.
00/ On our nevy. W
44 h ant the' t't tion for another ,year• hut 118 ,
I, e
was ad taken ebtls 1 U , . 35 I find we spent only 4,500, e eOO 000 i, Why, to
' • i have since increased that expenditure eee
ee was e the pains to .prepare anew consittution,
.., , 'which you nto
totrod entitled to the gratitude of the House for the 1 d con, meet the very difficulties an •
ingenues . 1
we
In 1836, it was said rose ustion of the measure.—(Cheers.) With ' sly you are making provision fur.
..
ti, reet to al present and you added b,OOO
Noble Lord)
este(' 0 measure itself, he (thewere going to have war with Russia,
with Russiaebta the
men to your navy. There was no war
to it . Mlare Would not be any considerable opposition, had
to 10 ilia additional force was kept up. In 1841 and 1842 you
pn„ . t House, and he hoped he might be able to difficulties in China and Syria, and a threatened
t teem it 0 rapture
leteen ea, n some of the Points on which the Hon. Gen- with, Fr
the difficulty
ance ; and in - 1842 occurred
~„,,,
!ion. „sk ell% Adderley) had threatened. it with opposi- 1 with America . about.- - the Maine boundary. .vh e
1,11, 'the Councilappointed b
e the
not to I added to our navy then on account of the war in China
there
hauthority which it used to possess; but a I
a and Syria, and the chance of a rupture with the united
lea, was no precedent whatever of the working of an 1 ' -
States • Those ' difficulties passed away,but the.. navy
aye 0,.,..,_ . was never reduced. In 1845, there was a very
%emelt, he thought the Right Hon, tae
with the

States about the Oregon territory. There was a strong pro-
bability cf war, and an increase of 1,000,0001. or 1,200,000/.
wash agreed to itqfheenaysy ,estimates. We then formed
what; was called Aa squadron of evolution; it maraca-suer
near our own shores ; the Queen -paid a visit to it; and it
was said at the time. -that. tliere was 'as large a' fierce in that
squadron as had gained the battles of the *Nile or Tra-
falgar.-(1-lear, hear.) The Oregon dispute was settled;
but the squadron was not- at all reduced. Then came the
dispute-with France about the Spanish marriages. The
dynasty of Fiance • had passed away like a dream ; and,
-in-
stead of coming here as invaders, had been glad to receive
our hospitalitx.--iChaesSe) -stin
these preparations .had QOM.
tinued, . and that on a scale large enough to meet hostili-
ties from , a power far more. formidable than France; for
there is no doubt the. United States ie. far more powerful;
and yOu have all the, force you Prepared' to meet that
power, and also the force eshu prepared to , Meet France.
This year we have voted 39.000 seamen and boys, and 5,000
for a reserved force -in all '44,e00. -You have, therefore,
all that you ever had during the- time I -arri speaking, of.
There is no authentic source from. which I „can ascertain,
theexact state of our naval forces. No annual report is
made of the number of .voesels-where they are stationed•-a,
how many are in course of Construction or in ordinary. We
have to hunt through' the militarY or naval periodicals to
fiird this out, and then We do not find the number of men.
The only Source from which I Can obtaiu the latest correct
account of our naval forces is from' the speech of the late
First Lord of the Admiralty in moving the navy estimates
for 1850, and he says that we then had 252 ships in Com-
mission, 261 advanced and in ordinary, -mid' 6 ready to be
launched., This is, in round numbers, ships built and build-
ing, 500. I have no doubt ow present naval force amounts
to very much the same. How is 'that naval.force disposed
of ? Here again I am fast in the same-difficulty. I know
not where to apply to know where the vessels are stationed,
and what is the amount of force on each station. But the
Right Hon. Gentleman, the Borne Secretary, in introducing
this Militia Bill, on the 29th of March, told us the number of
vessels at home ready to sail. He said: "Your ships in
commission on the home station at this moment are, 9 vessels
of war, 5 frigates, 1 sloop, 9 steamers propelled by screw,
and 8 propelled by paddle." And he grounded his Militia
Bill on the statement thatalaat was all the force we had to
protect our shores. But when the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Secretary for the Navy spoke he said he had to add to
these the following list :- * ''
" There were at Woolwich nine vessels with 530 men ;
Sheerness, seven, with 1,541 men; ,Portsmouth, sixteet,
with 6,642 men ; Devonport, eleven, with 2,822 men ; Cork,
five, with' 365 men ; in all, 48 vessels and 11;906 men. To
them add the Hecate (cruising), 160 men, Pluto, 55; An-
telope, 55; Vulcan, 152; making in all 52 vessels and
12,3.28 men, exclusive of 4,500 marines on shore, and coast-
guard and dockyard battalions; in all 29,645 men. In ad-
dition he had to mention that. the Simonet and Vulcan,
large ecrew-steamers, were each capable of moving a regi-
ment, and there were several small steamers besides.",
This is a very different statement front the former. 'What
I wish to have is an exact statement, such as-I have moved
for, of the number.of ships advanced, in commission, and in
ordinary. Then comes the important question, how are our
ships disposed' of-en- foreign stations? I served twelve
months on the Naval Committee' of 1848, and I came to the
conclusion that there is a great waste of the public money in
keeping large ships ,on distant stations under the plea of
protecting our commerce, for which purposes they are never
available.-(Hear, hear.) The Secretary , for the Admiralty
also gave, us, in that same speech; the -amount of our naval
faeces on the different foreign siationse which consist of seven
-the East Indies and Chins, the Pacific or west coast of
America, the south-east coast of America, the west coast of
Africa, the Cape of Good Hope,•NorthAmerica and the West •
Indies. and the Mediterranean. ..11e-says that- •
"'The whole of her Majesty's ships in commission were-
in the East Indies and China, 19; Cape- of - Good Hope, 9.;
coast of Africa, 22; on the south-east coast of America the
number of ships was 8 ; west- coast of America, 9; North
America and West Indies, 13; Mediterranean, 19."
On referring to the report of the Naval Committee, I find
that in 1837 there were only ten 'ships ' on that station, and
that we had been keeping three or four vessels for some'
years on the coast of New Zealand, iii consequence of the
troubles there. Now that we propose to give a constitution
to New Zealand, and to hand over all the •waste lands to the
local Legislature, we May partly dispense' with two or three
of these; one ship will be sufficient to be left there.-(Hear,
hear.) I dare say-the war in Burmah will be urged against
. our bringing home more ships from China -and the East
Indies. But while we have nineteen ships stationed in those
seas, the East India Company have also a large fleet for
the protection of commerce, and they profess entirely to
protect their own shores ; therefore whatever fort% we have
there must de entirely fot the protection of our trade to
largsh ip the
China, and not to the East Indies. . Looking at the amount
of our exports to China and the Eastern Archipelago,
expense of that immense fleet is altogether' disproportioned
to it and to the wants of the case: To-place
war to serve as a police, where the only enemiese
of cth
orn-
f
tnerce are pirates who keep the shallow waters, in like em-
ploying a field battery to look after pickpockets in the
courts and alleys of the metropolis.-: (Cheers and laughter)
You have paid head-moneeefor the slaughter of 10,000 per-
sons, about 100,0001. in two years. The ships employed
have all been small vessels, and in destroying that amount
of pirates you have not lost a man ; there has not treeen
such an amount of `resistance as to cost you the life of a single
individual. To keep very large vessels in these seas is
quite unnecessary. I think our admirals might agree, as
our commodores do, to hoist their flag .on board a frigate
where a' line-of-battle ship was proved'noteto be necessary.
..._( Rear.) The Pacific, or west coast' of • America'station,
was formerly united with the coast of South America; but
in 1833 it was formed into a separate station. The Right
Hon. Gentleman tells us we have seventeen ships there-
nine on .the Pacific, and eight on the Atlantic station. A
large increase took place on'this statioa in consequence of
the threatened rupture with America on the boundary
question, and the dispute going-on- id-Buenos Ayres. Du-
ring six years we have had an average of 2,000 men and
ten ships of war lying in the River Prate, interfering in that
dispute; and vet we effected no good 'whatever. I believe the
merchants themselves at last agreed that pur interference had
done more harm than gocd, and had retarded the progress of
negotiation. Now, General Rosas,like many potentates on this
side the Atlantic, has become expatriated, and is in this
country; so there tsari end to all necessity for -interfering in
the affairs of the River Plate.-(llear, hear.) You may
safely take away six ships from that station, leaving 11: and
then you will have a larger- force to protect your commerce
than the United States hae, though their trade is much
greater since the discovery of the gold of California. -On
the west coast of Africa the Right none Gentleman tells us
there are e 2 ships. The number there is nearly doubled
, since 1836. I say, bring home every one of those ships.
which you are not compelled to keep there by treaty with
to the Cape of
other powers-France or America.-(llear, hear.) Ido not •
know whether any of theni have been transferred to Brazil,
Gentleman said we
but if they have they will be far more likely to do harm
thou
Igiooopde.,--Ls(ndllea,rv,hehreeatr.)e H
had nine vessels. Now, as the Kafir war may be urged
as a reason for not removing any of our vessels from that
station, I will say not one word in • -favour of removing a
.lennobuwrac°bleine:
s the Katie war.-
single vessel from that station .pendinee
(Hear, hear.) I come next to the West Indian and North
American station, where we have thirteen ships, and in pro-
portion to our trade with those places there is no portion
of our commerce which required so little protection as that
with North America.-(Hear, hear.) It would be an insult
to the United States to say that we required vessels to Prot
to do not send ships
tact our commerce there.-(Hear.)
--(Hear.)
to this country to protect their commerce here •
And if you attend to your own affaira, and do nofort meshipddle in
in
those of others, you have very little occasion s.
West Indies,
North America.-(Hear, tear.) • As tQ the
you are trading with your own colonies, and, of course,
you don't require any great force of ships. on that coast.-
(Hear, hear.) And here, again .Imust obserye • that no-
thing is so useless as a line-of-battle ship on. the West Indian
coast. lam told that at Kingston the officers give balls a
entertainments on board these ships,-but 15 to the• use of a
tine-of-battle ship to protect our commerce in the West
-Indies, it has none whatever. --(Hear, hear.) I would with-
arils four out of these thirteen vessels from the North Ame-
ricau and West Indian station, and I would have them of the
larger size.-(Hear, hear.) I now come .to the last and
seventh station-that of the Mediterranean. We have thir-
teen vessels on this station: Now it is stated in the evidence
of Sir G. Cockburn, that in his opinion six frigates and one
line-of-battle ship was as large a force- as .would be required
on this station iu time of peace.-(llear, hear.) But at
teis moment we have six or seven. line-of: battle ships with
twelve or thirteen smaller Vessels, being the largest collec-
tion of vessels on any station sailing under the orders of
Admiral Dundee from Malta to Cephalonia and Smyrna.--
(Hear; hear.) Now, I want to know if you are really se-
rious when you say that there is danger of an invasion, be-
cause, if you are, your conduct is that either of children or
of madmen, to leave your own shores unprotected whilst
you hove the largest concentration of vessels you possess
1,200 miles distant.-(Hear, hear.) - My _proposition is that
you should bring home ten out of these nineteen vessels, and
leave nine, which is three more than Sir G. Cockburn said
would be necessary.-(Hear, hear.) -Bear. in mind that I
do not propose to being these vessels home in order to dis-
mantle them, or to lay them up in ordinary.; 'but as you say
that there is danger of an invasion, and that it is therefore
necessary to enrol a militia, I say bring home these vessels
-have them in Spitheed, or Cork, or Plymouth, instead of
the Mediterranean.-(Hear, hear.) But I hear this objec-
tion-if you bring back the fleet iu the Mediterranean, then
France, which has made a great °diminution of vessels in
her northern ports, will bring back her ships into the Chan-
nel, and then we would be no' better-off, than we were be-
firre. Well, but if this be so, ,what becomes of all the rea-
sons which were given for increasing our navy ? -(Hear.)
I have heard it said that France had no reason to be afraid
of our large navy; that this was au island, that we had a
large commerce to protect. and that we wanted a large fleet;
that we were not a great military. power, and that our having
a large fleet ought not to raise the susceptibility of any other
country. Bur now, whew I say,. bring your fleet home, I
am told, "Oh, it will raise the susceptibility of France, and
they will bring their fleet to the northern . ports, and so we
must become a military nation." - (llear, hear.) If this be
true, you have obtained the increase of. your navy-under
false pretences.-(Hear, hear.) I say if you apprehend an
invasion bring home your fleet from the Mediterranean, and
France would haveno rightsto feel sjealotis 'so long as she
kept up a standing army of 350,000 men, whilst we had only
a small army, and which I hope the good sense of the people
of this country will not permit to be increased.-(Hear, hear.)
We have this ' fleet 1,200 miles off, and then the Hon.
Gentleman tells us, as he did the other night, that Hull
and Dundee, and some other - places, were left wholly
unprotected.- (Hear, hear.) Surely this was either a
joke or an insult to our understandings.-( Hear, , hear.)
Why, five of the places which were said to ,be undefended
sent petitions against the Militia Bill.-(Hoar, hear.)
1 have been arguing on the assumption of the advocates of
a mi itia that we 'want more defences.. But I confess I do
not see any present danger in any direction--(11ear) -and I
have hot beard one fact urged that should excite any appre-
heneion.-(llear.). We have had :every assurance that
could be 'given' th t a no furtheameasures Were necessary.
But it been •
..- said we are liable to war at any time.: I
don't believe that,
pelt-
tinned against and the. reason, that people .have
amiliiii is that they don't. believe it- likely or
Practicable that
may hate a
people would read wll. war at any moment. .If
what took place History; and. more especially the' details of
and our nearest,
to, the ruptures between this coun-
tryihey would see that neighbour diirieg the lest hundred years,
a sudden. Did
the cult Was not likely to be rushed upon on
a sudden? In 1792 we Fatten of war in 1793 take place on
when the King withdrew our ambasaa o
was put to death,..' sl rfrom France
the public functions of the French and we gave notice that
this country. But the French.Ab Ambassador Ceased in
re-
trained here in his private capacityua raador, AL
,Chauvelin,
and daring that time lie made, everyrom Augusti till February,
ties. Many representatives from 11-
anect o!t to avert liostili-
had private interviews with. Mr. Pitt, ea had come here, and
Was almost forced to leave this country.nd the
It m, ambassador
Leg Months after 'the ambassador had left ti as not till
countries came into actual- hostilities.-_(!tear,
the two
Again, after the treaty of Arnim,. in 1802- er, hear.)
everybody knew a treaty which
would not last-although there - Win-
was what
was almost tantamount to, a declaration of war on the I 80
March, 1803 ; and although. Bonaparte went so far a: 1)f
offer a'.personel insult to our. ambaesacler,,Lerd.Whitwortl
il W
yet L9rd WhitivortO it extremely nacult to obtain
. - .