The Sun.
London, England, 1864-02-19 00:00:00

THE SUN, LOND

the police over ticket-of-leave men. In other respects it

met with his approval.

Mr. WHIT BREAD spoke in favour of the measure,'and
argued that without stimulants to good behaviour on the
part of the convict it would be impossible to keep eight

hundred or a thoußand prisoners in order, and useless to
hope for their reformation, and that the ticket-of leave

system hid not failed.
Mr. CAVE discussed the general question of crime and
its correctives in an able and interesting speech.
Mr. C. FORTESCUE treated the subject from the Colo-

vial-office point of view, and justified the Government in
not proposing any more extended system of transportation
to Western Australia than the capacity of that colony ad-
mitted of. He thought that those prisoners who were sen-
tenced to long terms of imprisonment should receive a large
portion of their sentences at home, and should only even-
tually find their way to Australia as a boon, and as a mode
of dealing with them at the end of their sentences ; in fact,
that transportation should partake of the character of exile
rather than anything else. He believed that the proposals
of the Government would eventually satisfy both the inha-

bitants of "Western Australia and of the Australian colonies
generally.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said that as a memter of the

Royal commission, and t eeling deeply interested in the sub-
ject, he wished to make a few remarks on the plan submitted

by the Government. He felt bound to admit that the right
hon. gentleman had evinced a desire to follow out the re-
commendation of the Royal Commission as closely as he
fairly could. The right hon. baronet had referred to the

act of 1857, and the causes whioh led to the change that
then took place. He (Sir J Pakington) had before re-
marked on the great jumps in the sentenc.s from two years'
imprisonment to seven years' transportation, and an inter-

mediate period was fixed upon, shorter sentences of penal
servitude being substituted for seven years' transportation
The right hon. gentleman said the commissioners had re-
ported unfavourably of the experiment. As one of the com-
missioners he entirely concurred in the report. He thought
that those short sentences had not answ.q.ed well, %rid he
had no idea that 'he criminal courts would have acted upon
them to the extent that they had done. If the courts of
justice would carry out their sentences in this spirit ot
lenity, it was a matter of miuor importance what system ot
punishment the Government should adopt. He thought
therefore that Government were correct in the course they
had taken, and that at all events the term of penal servitude
should be made longer He would next avert o a most

important topic. namely, the determination of the Govern-
ment to disregard the recommendation of the Royal Cam-
mission on the subject of carrying out transportation to
Western Australia on a greatly extended scale. he was of
opiL ion that they could not lo,k to Western Australia to
carry out transportation, and he looked with anxiety to
the agitation which had taken place iu that co:ony
oa
this subject. If there was a serious objection to carry-
ing out transportation in Western Australia by the
colonists generally, it was the duty of the Government to
concede to this objection; but it ought to be recollected
that the greatness of Australia was to be dlted to the ad-
vantages derived from convict labour. Tne cause of the cry
against transportation had arisen from he great extent of
emigration to Australia in connexion with the gold digging.
But the views entertained by the c)lonists as regarded the
introduction of convicts were exaggerated ones. Yet, al-
though he thought this circumstance had been greatly ex-
aggerated by the colonists of Australia, he still thought that
the G,verument were right in concurring in the opinion
expressed by the people of Australia on the subject, He
begged now to observe that he was favourable to the prin-
ciple of the remission of punishment, as it was calculated to
reform the convict, although this was in opposition to the

opinion of the Lord Chief Justice of England ; and he was
therefore glad that the Government had retained iu this
bill the principle of remission of punishment. He, however,
thought the remission of punishment ought to be accom-
panied by proper supervision of the ticket-of-leave convict.
The right hon. gentleman then referred to the evidence of
Sir Richard Mayne, in which that gentleman stated that
he had told the police not to take cognizance of ticket-of-
leave men. This showed that supervision was clearly ob-
jected to by the head of the London police. The right hon.
gentleman the Secretary of State seemed not to concur in
the course pursued by Sir Richard Mayne in this respect.
Well, that might be so, but it was clear that the head of the
London police had given the directions to which ho had
referred, and be (Sir J. Pakington) was now glad to find
that the Home Secretary did not concur in this instruction
to the police, for he (Sir J. Pakington) considered that they
should have a system of supervision carried on by the police
over the ticket •of-leave men. (Hear, hear.) Upon the whole
he concurred in the general views taken on this subject by
the right hon. the Secretary for the Home Department, and
he would hereafter give the measure his most careful con-
sideration.
Mr. CHILDE RS, after some remarks upon the system
of transp. tation, the ch4nges it unaerwent, its results and
its failures, strongly insisted upon the repugnance enter-
tained by the Australian colonists to transportation, gni
their d, sire to see it come to an end, so that the whole of
that continent should be settled by free people.
Mr. NEW DEGATE combated these views of the
Australian colonist, and urged the injustice of their refus-
ing to one of the colonies means it desired of augmenting
its resources by convict labour. He repudiated the idea
thiat,at the dictation of any body of its colonists, this country
should be deterred from seeking an outlet for its criminals
tor the benefit of its colonists no iess than for its own

benefit.
After a few observations by Mr. MARSH,
Mr. WALPOLE compared the scheme proposed by the
Government with that propounded by the ri6ht hon mem-
ber for Staffordshire (Ur. Adderley), and confessed a pre-
ference for the former. In reiereuce to the subject ot
granting tickets-et-leave, he observed that men in all stages
end conditions of life were ope,ated upon by the encourage-
ments ot hope and the dete ring eff-:cts of fear; and he re-
minded the house that, if they only offered fear and denied
the pleasure ot hope, they would only debase the prisoner
and turn him out of prison a worse man than he was when
he went into it. He deplored the opposition of the
southern and eastern colonies ot Australia to a system ot
transpLrtation, and hoped that the difficulties on that
point might still be overcome. He attributed the increase
of crime in 1861 and 1562, in Ireknd, to the failure of the
crops, and in England to commercial pressure; but as that
increase of crime was concurrent with the diminution
of sentences to penal servitude to three years, he be-
lieved that the increase of the minimum punishment
from three to five years, as proposed by the Government,
would have a good effect in reducing the number of criu.i-
nals. As to the rewi-sion of sentences, he suggested that,
instead of the convict being under the supervision or
espionage of the police, he should be permitted to return to
a known place of abode, and should report himself privately
to the police if he left that place during the time his condi-
tional licence lasted. The last point was a difficult one ; but
when a prisoner out upon his conditional licence, by com-
mitting a new offence, abused the Crown's mercy towards
him, he ought to be made to undergo the whole of the
punishment which had been remitted. (Hear, hear.) Upon
the whole he could not but give his cordial approbation to
the bill whim had been introduced that night. (Hear.)
But we ought, in his opinion, to obtain some penal station
near to England, to which the worst criminals could at once
be sent, and treated with a severer punishment than that
now inflicted on the public works. That was not a matter
of legislation, but of regulation on the part of the Govern-
ment. That, superadded to the provisions now proposed,
would make the system as good as it could be proved, and
make it more efficient in deterricg criminals from crime,
while it did not exclude the principle of reformation.
After a few words in reply from Sir G. GREY,
the motion was then agreed to, the bill read a first time,
and ordered for a second reading on Monday week.
THE METRIC SYSTE NI OF WEIGHTS AND

Mr, W. EWART obtained leave to bring in a bill
to render permissive the metric system of weights and
measures.
The house adjourned at twelve o'clock.

RELIGION OF THE IRIS/I.—The Census of Ire-
land in 1861 found in that country 4,505,266 Itomat.
Catholics 693,357 persons belonging to the Established
Church, 623,291 Presbyterians, 45.399 Methodists, 4,532
Independents, 4,237 Baptists, 3,695 Quakers, 393 Jews,
and 15,666 of various other persuasions. The number o'
persons belonging to the Es,ablished Church is ratber less
than the population of the diocese of Lincoln. Of the
Roman Catholics five years old and upwards 45.8 per cent.
could neither read nor write, of the Established Church 15
per cent., IPI per cent, of the Presbyterians, 9 per cent. of
the Methodists, 6.8 of the Independents, 9 2 of the Baptists,
41 of the Quakers. Many persons lescribed themselves as
belonging to communions little known to the outside world
There were 2,756 Covenanters—there were Kellyites,
Darbyites, Walkerites,and s.lorrissonians. The religion o'
two persons is described as " Palatine;' one man puss
down his religion as "self ()pinion," There are 7 " Oul
Lights," and 18 " New Lights." There is a " Crom-
wellian Protestant," but he stands alone. So does a
"Positivist." There are 11 persons "of no particular
sect," two "doubttul," one unbeliever, ono Atheist, and 72
point-blank " of no religion."
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Arabica Food, as proved by thousands of cases which na i
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Miss Lange, is years of age, cured after the medical men had
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healthy, blooming, fleshy girl.—N. Lange, Commissaire de
Police. Cure, No. 46,270. Mr. James Roberts, of lt'rimley
Surrey, of hirty years' diseased lungs, spitting of blood, liver
derangement, and partial deafness.—Cure, No. 47,121. Miss
Elizabeth Jacobs, of extreme nervousness, indigestion,
gatherings, low spirits, and nervous fancies.—Cure, No.
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of indigestion and torpidity of the liver, which had resisted
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