The Sun.
London, England, 1852-12-14 00:00:00

INCOME TAX ON IRISH PROPERTY,

Fhe Earl of WICKLOW moved for returns respect
ing the payment of income tax in this country in respect
of property in Ireland. The noble lord said that
his object in moving for these returns was to re-
move the erroneous impression that property in Ireland
did not pay income tax. The real fact was, that though
Ireland was nominally exempt from the income tax, yet
perrons residing in this country had to pay the tax for
their property in Ireland ; and Irish property, therefore,
paid no inconsiderable amount, though, owing to the
manner of making up the accounts and returns, the fact
did not actually appear on them. It was much more
necessary that such should no longer be the case, now
that there was every probability that the income was
about to be proposed as a permanent source of revenue.
His lordship expressed himself as favourable to the ex-
tension of the tax to Ireland, provided that such a course
were coupled with a removal of other inequalities exist-
ing with regard to the financial burdens of the country.
The Earl of DERBY said that he had no objection to
consent to this return, but he had an impression it
would riot have the effect of serving the object which
the noble earl had in view. His lordship said that this
question of direct taxation, based on as few exemptions
as possible, was a question which, at the present mo-
ment, was one of great interest. The decision which
the House of Commons was about to pronounce was
one fraught with immense importance, not simply to
the position of the Government—though of course its
decision, one way or the other, would considerably
affect their position—but to the future interest and wel-
fare of the country at large. Withont wishing to hurry
the other house in their decision, he could not help ex-
pressing a hope that it would soon be given, and the
country released from the anxiety in which it was at
present placed.
The return was then ordered.
Lord MONTEAGLE moved for certain returns re-
lating to the amount of revenue arising from indirect
taxation, and the amount applied to the reduction of
the national debt.

(Left speaking.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS--(TFIIS EVENING,
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PETITIONS.
_

Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented a petition praying
the house to interfere in the case of Edward Murray.
Several petitions were presented praying the house to
grant papers to literary and scientific institutions.
Several petitions were presented praying for the re-
peal of the taxes on knowledge.
Mr. DIVETT presented a petition from Exeter,
against the Budget.
Mr. LOCKE presented a similar petition from Ho-
niton.

Mr. HEYWOOD presented a petition from the gra-
duates of the University of London, praying the house
to confer one of the vacant seats on that institution.
Sir J. V. SHELLEY presented a petition from the
teetollers of Westminster, against the reduction of the
malt and hop taxes, and also against the proposed in-
crease of the house tax.
Several other hon. members presented petitions with a
similar prayer.
Mr. PIGOTT presented a petition from the board of
guardians of Reading union, against the recent poor-law
order.

Ma. W. WILLIAMS presented similar petitions from
St. Mary, Newington, and the Borough of Lambeth.
Mr. WILKINSON presented a similar petition from
the parish of St. Mary, Lambeth.
Mr. ADDERLEY presented a petition from Canter-
bury in New Zealand against the measure for charging
the debt of the New Zealand Company upon that
Colony.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented a petition from Bir-
mingham praying for the repeal of the Newspaper
Stamp duty.
Mr. OAKES presented a petition from Bury St.
Edmunds a,gainst the Budget.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from Stoke-npon-
Trent praying for the repeal of the Newspaper Stamp duty.
Mr. M. GIBSON presented a similar petition.
Sir J. GRAHAM presented a petition from Carlisle
against the Budget.
HE A LTH OF TOWNS.
Sir J. GRAHAM said as the Health of Towns' Bill
now stood the local authorities had no power to prevent
interments in towns, or to providec cemeteries onside the
town. Now, he wished to know if it was the intention
of Government to bring in any bill after the recess that
would remedy the defect.
Lord JOHN MANNERS said the attention of the
Government had been called to this subject, and a bill
would be brought forward after the recess.
THE CAFFRE WAR.
Mr. ADDERLEY wished to ask the right hon.
gentleman, the Secretary for the Colonies, if he were pre-
pared to put the house in possession of any information
he might have received by the Queen of the South, on
the subject of the Caffre war. He wished to know if it
was true that the war was extending itself in the north-
east of the colony, and whether the right hon. gentle-
man had received any memorial from the colonists, com-
plainihg of the postponement of their constitution.
Sir J. PAKINGTON had hardly had time to look
carefully through the dispatches, but he had read enough
to satisfy him that the Caffre war could not be con-
sidered as terminated yet, though from one despatch of
Gen. Cathcart he collected that the Waterkloof had been
entirely cleared of Caffres, and there was no prospect of
its again falling into the possession of the enemy. Hos-
tilities are even still going on in the Amatola's, but the
enemy there was confined to a very small number, while
with regard to the other part of the question he had no
reason to suppose that the war was extending itself in a
north-easterly direction ; with regard to the latter
question of the hon. gentleman, he begged to state thai
he had received a resolution but no memorial on the sub-
ject. A deputation, however, from the lieutenant-
governor led him to believe that no excitement pre-
vailed in the Cape, as to the intentions of the govern-
ment, and it was anticipated that there would be no
difficulty in carrying them out.
In reply to a question from Mr. VERNON SMITH,
Sir J. PAKINGTON said, the papers which had been
moved for on the subject of the constitution were in
preparation and would be laid upon the table forthwith.
Sir DE LACY EVANS wished to know if the
boundary question was yet settled, and if it is, whether
government would have any objection to lay the corres-
pondence upon the table.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said that was still an open
question, and he was corresponding with General Cath-
cart upon the subject.
Mr. HINDLEY wished to ask the Secretary for the
Colonies, if the statements which have appeared in the
Cape newspapers are true, viz., that Kafirs takea in the
clearing of the Waterkloof were immediately hung ; and
if so, whether this was justified by the laws of war.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said he had no official
knowledge of the subject, .but with regard to the latter
part of the hon. member's question, he apprehended
that when an enemy showed no quater it was considered
justifiable to treat him in a similar spirit. On the other
hand, however, if the rules of war were followed out on
both sides, it would be against military practice to exe-
cute a prisoner, but it should be recollected that in this
case a considerable portion of the Kaairs and Hot-
tentots, who were contending against British
arms, were British subjects, and, therefore, were
liable to be dealt with as rebels against the Crown
of England. He had heard from a private source, that
in clearing the Waterkloof, it had been found necessary
to hang two persons, but nothing in the shape of un-
necessary cruelty had been resorted to. (Hear.)
Mr. HINDLEY wished to know if the right hon.
baronet would make inquiry into the subject.
Sir J. PAKINGTON had no objection to make in-
quiry, but he might state that he had received one of
the general orders of the Governor, in which the officers
and men were enjoined to allow no unnecessary loss of
life. Looking at the nature of the enemy which General
Cathcart had lo contend against, it was evident that they
must have confidence in his honour and integrity, or the
war would never be brought to a close. (Hear, hear.)
Air LETTER-CARRIERS.
• SCHOLEFIELD • t
the Treasury, wished o ask the Secretary of
ter-General' ' zhether it is the intention of the Postmas-
ilst permitting the letter-carriers in the
metropolis tow receive Christmas-boxes, to prohibit the
receipt of %ea
vinces ; and ifes gratuities by letter-carriers in the pro-
,lowhether the latter are to receive com-
pensation for the°
Mr. HAMILTON of
inch gratuities ?
sairdohit was the intention of the
Postmaster-General to
boibit provincial letter-carriers
from receiving Christmlaf)i
, but the Postmaster did
not consider that prohibition gave them any claim to
compensation.

men

THE HOp DUTY.jaastekthe Chancellor of
asi::iirionrcltaoltallow the
PELLATT Nvishedlit
the Exchequer whether it is
drawback upon hops the same
the 10th day of October next) of the growth (held on
of 1852 and
preceding years.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
ready answered the question. It was not the inttiaoln.
of the Government to allow any drawback.
Sir J. V. SHELLEY said a portion of the stocks on
the hands of growers would not be liable to duty until
November next, at least the duty would not be collected
until then, and he should be glad to know if a draw_
back would be allowed in that case.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
duty on those stocks were already due.
Sir J. V. SHELLEY—Yes, but not collected.
e CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Just
so, but it is not payable until November next, simply
because an indulgence has been granted to those from
whom it is dne.

PUBLIC WORKS.
Sir R. FERWCSON wished to ask- the Chancellor of
be Exchequer whether, considering that the Wentieth,

THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.
On the motion that the SPEAKER do leave the chair,
ior going into Committee of Ways and Means,
Sir DE LACY EVANS, adverting to what passed
at the close of the debate last night, reminded the house
that, as yet, the debate had only lasted two nights, and
the matter under discussion was too important by far to
admit of its being terminated to-night. It should
be remembered that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
occupied a whole night in opening the budget, and it was
hardly possible, looking to the feeling of the country,
and the fact that only one metropolitan member had yet
stated his views upon the subject, that the matter could
be brought to final issue within the space of three nights'
debate. (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had no
wish to throw any difficulties in the way of honourable
members expressing their opinions, while he was
equally ready to admit the importance of allowing
the country sufficient time to express its opinion on the
budget, but, nevertheless, he thought it extremely desir-
able, looking at the time of year, that they should bring
the preliminary discussion to as speedily a close as pos-
sible. (Hear, hear.) All that Government wanted the
house to do now was to come to some decision upon the
principle of the budget, and to allow them to take one
vote before Christmas. (Hear.) They had no desire to
pledge any bon. member by the vote he should give on
the present issue with regard to the details of the finan-
cial scheme; all that they wanted the house to do was
to pronounce an opinion as to the advisa'aility of extend-
ing the area of direct taxation ; and, then, if that ques-
tion was decided in the affirmative, leave it for a future
occasion to discuss the details of the measures which
were to be agreed to, in consequence of the adoption of
that extended system of direct taxation. (Cheers.)
The house then went into committee.
THE BUDGET.—THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.
The house then went into a committee of ways and
means--Mr. W. PATTEN in the chair.
Lord JOCEYLN regretted that he was compelled
to differ in opinion with regard to the financial measures
of the Government from those with whom it was his
pleasure generally to act, and more especially that he
was obliged to take an opposite view to that of the right
hon. gentleman the member for the University
of
,Oxford, in whose general policy he had
hitherto concurred. (Hear.) He confessed that he
came to this conclusion in a spirit altogether different
to that exhibited by those around him. He had been
returned to assist in maintaining that fiscal policy which
had so improved the condition of all classes, and it was
with no small degree of vexation that he found the Go-
vernment had made no attempt in their budget to reverse
their policy, which they seemed to him to have fairly and
loyally accepted. (Hear, hear.) There was nothing,
in his opinion, so injurious as a Government on suffe-
rance. Of that they had experience during the last three
years of Lord J. Russell's administration, but he could
not believe that the present Gevernment were actuated
by any great desire to continue in office. ("Hear," from
the Ministerial benches.)'As a memberof a shipping com-
munity, he tendered his thanks to them for the care
and attention which they had bestowed to the wants of
the shipping interest. The hon. member for Halifax
(Sir C. Wood) had said that the measures in-
troduced by the Government to relieve the shipping
trade, were prepared by their predecessors. Now, if
that were so, they were greatly to blame for not having
the courage to bring them forward ; but as the present
Government had taken them in hand, they were en-
titled to the thanks of all the community for the credit
belonging to the adoption of such a course. As to the
income tax he thought that its principle ought to be at
once reconsidered, and that the proposed alterations of
the Ministry were in the right direction. (Hear.)
He considered that it was unjust to levy the same
rate of tax upon precarious as on permanent
incomes. (Hear.) The noble lord then referred to the
various propositions in the budget, and said, as he be-
lieved it would be generally advantageous to the com-
munity, he would, without pledging himself to all the
details, give the resolution before the committee his
support, thereby affirming that direct taxation ought to '
be adjusted, and the system of reducing duties on articles
of consumption continued. (Cheers.)
Mr. B. OSBORNE gave credit to the Chancellor of
the Exchequer for two main points in his budget. He
thought he deserved thanks for taking off the unjust
taxes on the shipping interest, and only regretted that
he had not gone further and repealed the duty on tim-
ber. He also thought that he had taken a sagacious
and statesmanlike view of the tea duties. His financial
statement. he admitted, was as clear as any state-
which was ever put before the house.
,e knew that no man more combined the
;wo antagonistic qualities of lucidity and obscurity, but
still every one would agree that he delivered his budget
without reserve or misrepresentation. (Hear.) Having
made these observations, the hon. member proceeded to
deal with the proposals of the Government, observing
that, from the speeches of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer on entering office, it would have appeared that
the fiscal ruillenium was to come, when the tax-gatherer
should cease to persecute, and the consolidated fund
would become a convenient refuge. (Laughter.) Yet
what was said to be " looming" in the future in regard
to a general revision of the taxation of the country, had
turned out to be nothing more than an attempt to re-
lieve the agricultural classes for what they were told they
bad lost by the repeal of the corn laws. (Cheers.) All
that had been done was to propose the transfer of about
2,500,000/. to the shoulders of a class who were not
generally supposed to be very favourable to her Majesty's
Government, namely, the 10/. householders. He denied
that the budget would at all conduce to reconeile conflict-
interests ; on the contrary, he looked on it as if it
had been conceived in a hostile, if not a revengeful spirit,
against the middle classes—(oh ! and cheers)—as if it
were intended to scourge the backs of those who revelled
in the repeal of the corn laws, and to induce them to
look back with repentance and regret on their past pro-
ceedings. (Oh ! and hear.) He very much doubted the
Safety of making all our taxes direct in a country where
our fiscal system was so artifieial. As to the house tax,
he objected to it, on the ground of its being a town and
not a country tax— tnough he entertained the same opi-
nion as to the propriety of a house tax as some hon.
members opposite, he thought that if it were to be im-
posed, it ought to be extended equally to all parts of the
country—what was sauce to the town goose was equally
sauce to the rural gander—(hear, hear)—and it was
not by robbing the feathers of the one that they could
give compensation to the other. (Laughter.) It was
quite plain that the house tax was nothing more than
compensation to the agricultural interest--disguise it as
they would by alleged benefit to the consumes-, that was
-the real nature and intention of the measure. (Oh, and
heap) Then, as to malt, he denied that the remission
of duty would affect the consumer in any material de-
gree ; barley had fallen in price for several years, yet the
price of beer had not fallen, and the brewer had been the
only gainer. He also disputed the argument that the
reduction would confer any advantage upon the farmer.
Mr. NEWDEGATE pronounced against a partial
reduction of the malt tax in 1851, and he called upon
the honourable member to vote now against the budget.
In 1835 the late Sir R. Peel made a speech upon this
very subject, and he recommended the house to read
that speech. The late right honourable baronet proved,
in that speech, that a revenue of 5,100,000/. was col-
lected, at an expense of 150,000/. a year, and the
speech established, beyond all doubt, that the malt
tax was one of the best taxes that could be devised
To repeal it now would only benefit the brewer and the
publican, without reducing the price to the consumer,
and he warned the house against entering upon the
dangerous experiment recommended by the Government,
(Hear.) What had the landed interest to complain of
in our present system of taxation. A few years ago they
heard a good deal about the peculiar burthen that pressed
upon land, and once the right hon. gentleman the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer attempted to obtain a committee upon
that subject, but directly he got into office he threw the
whole matter overboard. (Hear, hear.) Now, with re-
gard to the income tax he was opposed to its continu-
ance, it was a tax most odious, because it
was most inquisitorial, and therefore most demoralising.
It ought to be extinguished as soon as possible. Re de-
nied that it was revived for the purpose of carryint out
free trade, it was revised to make good a deficiency in
the exchequer, and now that there was a surplus some
attempt ought to be made to reduce it.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

THE LONDON GAZETTE.

(THIS EVENING.)

OSBORNE-HOUSE, DEC. 9.
This day had audience of her Majesty, his Excellency
the Count Walewski, Ambassador from the Emperor of
the French, to deliver his credentials ; to whom he was in-
troduced by the Earl of Malmesbury, her Majesty's Secre-
tary of State for Foreign Affairs.

FOREIGN OFFICE, DEC. 11.
The Queen has been pleased to approve of Mr. Henry,
D. Jourdain as Consul at Southampton, and of Mr. oNi-
Cummins, as Consul at Cork, for the Sublime Otto-
man Porte.

DOWNING-STREET, DEC. 14.
rienslowe, Esq., to be Clerk of the Legislative Council of
The Queen has been pleased to appoint Francis Hartwell
the Island of Van Diemen's Land.
Her Majesty has also been
John Wise to be Chaplain, on the Establishment of the
Government, of the Island of Ceylon.
pleased to appoint the Rev.
Her Majesty has farther been pleased to appoint Capel
Hanbnry Williams, Es aral Sir Theophilus St. George,
Bart., to be Assistant Magistrates for the District of Natal, 1
in South Africa.
WAR-OFFICE, DEC 14.
93d Regiment Foot,-11ajor-General Edward Parkinson,

COURSE OF EXCI
Amsterdam...... • • • • .. 11 16%
Ditto, three months .. 11 17%
Rotterdam 11 17%
Antwerp .......• 25 30
Brussels
Hamburgh
Altona „ _
13434
Paris.• ........ • • • •
Ditto, three months • • 25 30
Marseilles... .• 25 32%
Bourdeaux .........
Frankfort-on•Maine'.
Berlin
Vienna
Trieste
Petersburgh..........
Madrid ..
Cadiz....
Barcelona....
Seville

•

.. 11 32

.... . .. ..
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