The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-05 00:00:00

TEE SUN,

amber of ships and of men employed upon
eit°h• • He hoped, therefore, the House would
sot listen to any ph aof secrecy. F•om the speech
Of the Hen, and Gallant Member f Weeimmster (Sir
De Lacy Evans), it would appear that this couutry was
better defended and had a stronger disposable military
Power even than France. Look at the garrisons which
It was necessary to keep up in that country—that of
Paris with 70,000 men, and 83 others which required
troops, and then take into acceunt the irregular gen-
darmerie, and it seemed that France had not at her dis-
posal 160,000 men available for any purpose of invasien.
After 1835 and 1836 the regular force of the army,
121117.11nd ordnance was for seven years 121,842. Tnis
Year it was 161,592, being an increase of 40 000smen
over the amount of force during the Bake of Welling-
Ws Government. Our artillery and engineers had been
doubled during the last seven years, of which he del
sot complain. Their number :vas 8.000 during the war
With
sis France, and now i; was 15,000. Our navy used to
co
of '26,000 or 27,000 seamed and marines under
,the Duke of Wellington's Administration. Now we
had 44,000 seamen and merinos, and yet we were told
the eountry was not adequately defended. In the year
1841 the Duke of Wellington took the alarm, and a cora-
Mission was appointed to inquire into the state of the
national defences. Captain Sir T. Hastings and others
visited tho whole coast of England, from the North
Foreland to the Land's-end, and they made a report.
But when the Gallant Captain was under examination
11 a Committee upstairs he stated that no efficiel infor-
larion had been laid before him that induced him to
believe that there was danger of invasion. The Gallant
lEcer (Majer Beresford) wished the House to believe,
übecause we wore able to land at New Orleans 6 000 or
e,OOO
men, when we had five or six days to d) it in, and
were masters of the sea c;a11 the time, that 60,000 men
"uld be landed on the English coast when we had ships
to lotde after there.—(Hear, bear.) How could 60 000
men be collected and thrown upon our there without
our obtaining some infirmation of their coming? He
agreed with the Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) that the
country would have some intimation of the danger from
the' •
Press, from commerce, or from diplomacy, and he
ired with him in calling this an " ignominious panic."
Tae Commission on the National Defences had recom-
aretitled an outlay of 2.500,000/. er 3,000,0001., which
ebeeli hid out in improving our harbours and coast
tb e enr eess but which money he believed had been entirely
theaey'r, ray. Then, in addition to steam-basins and
andeetences we had a regular !orce of 161,000 men,
an
r
regular force of 54,000, as had been shown by his
Atari; making in all upwards of 200,000 armed men.
peen there was the city and metropolitan police, 8,780 ;
re't of the police force in England and Wales, 2.749,
.end 12000 Irish cenetabulary ; making together more
'flan 20,000 men, who, added to the regular and irregu-
lar
;troops, constituted altogether a force of 237,517 men
n ants in the service of their country. A force of
561500 men would let amply sufficient fur colonial ser-
'lees and that would leave 180,000 men avilable fur the
defence of their country. The Duke of Wellington's
sas,tlthority had been quoted on the other side. But if
"'el claimed the Noble Duke as their authority, they
tiltht to adopt his remedy. The Duke of Wellington
7dninuiended the Government to raise an organiz-d and
mleeiplined force for each of the three kingdoms equal in
ar!":211t to that maintained during the late war. Yet the
`4overement were content with proposing this petty and
paltry force of 80,000 men for England, leaving Scotland
and Ireland unprovided for. There was no panic in the
b°seunlrY• It was only the late and present Ministries
at were paninstrie ken. The Chancellor of the Ex-.
%Lltquer, in his able and eloquent speech on Friday, said
„„..."as unwise to impose. a tax to which the feeling of the
sous was opposed. Let the Government act in the
rarle spirit with regard to the present Bill, which was
to the great body ot the people. If the
Bill,,Should not be passed the hop and advertisement duty
"light be repealed to-morrow.
Mr. CHARTERIS said Le wished to take that op-
Vertu •
eo,en-IlltY of expressing his astonishment at the self-
"lent manner in which the Hon. Member for Mon-
rnse and his friends enunciated their opinions on mili-
r▪ Y
Inatters.—(Elear, hear.) Any person who listened
tethose gentlemen would suppose that they not only
tnna opolised all the intelligence of the country, but
t peed
likewise monopolised all its professional
nwledge. In the year 1803 Mr. Wyndham had made
,pl▪
iPeech, of which many portions were extremely ap-
is.e..able to the present state of that question. He had
,0:T that they had been told daily of the impracticability
(11,1!Ivasion by many eminent lawyers, *by many sound
Aprinskess "emu country gentlemen, many respectable
▪ unnta, many intelligent manufacturers, and
tbs Y very handsome women--( laugh)—while
bear ahlY persons from whom they did not
that opinion were our soldiers and sailors.
,841(41r- Che,rteris) confessed that he did not feel the
s) coned in his own judgment on military mat-
ters which confidence
t
krLose gentlemen appeated to a mi
matters he was disposed to bow to the opinions of
igeeettarY men without attributing those opinions to the
heft—pcxilitY of age or to interested motives.—(Hear,
rat-,7) He believed that the gentlemen who opposed the
eon for
•going into Committee on that Bill were not
sirerted by public feeling out of doors.—(Hear, hear.)
bet!!!') alight be petitions against the measure; but he
tee`"eed that a large portion of those petitions referred
--ere
bees the compulsory clauses than to the Bill itself.
eeti the statements in the press, and from other indi-
th -tlns of public opinion, it was reasonable to conclude
Conational
a feeling of insecurity prevailed on the subject of
national defences. He hoped they would go into
cod make
on the Bill with as little delay as possible,
cowl, [take it as complete and effective a measure as they
V•ss(l-IFar. hear.)
be-^r• MITCHELL dissented from the statement made
the late First Lord of the Admiralty, that our navy
114 emPleysd to a great extent, in defending our coin-
be, er% With respect to the question more immediately..
thesore the
House, he wcu'd preeer an eugmsuta.tion o;
he army to the embediment of the milina, and
tuthellved that the House. of C. melons would never re-
ta: to 'maintain an amount of force which the Govern-
touti_raleht declare on its responsibility to be necessary
ie'e!oe defence of the country. The Right Hon. Gen-
:0011nel 11
(1)11
othwan the Chancellor of the Exchequer told them the
isaes
ohfat their
p dir
ect
la taxationthat should be extended
eople. principle he entirely
1114.cPirr, ed" but the proposal now before the House was
~
a isY opposed to such a system. Suppose it carried,
e....eble Lord with 100,000/. a year, it drawn for the
Would find a substitute at a cost of say 101,
0•
1"a a Man employed in a factory,. and earning only
his a Year, would have to pay exactly the same sum for
'Msubstitute, if he wistul to provide one.—(Hear,
eer),ellow. this he called gross inequality and injun-
Ale. ut if, instead of 80,000 militia, they were to
half
an additiOn of 20.000 men to the standing army
hide expense of which might be paid by adding one-
1f tae©
Cent. to the income-tax—the working man
%me income-tax was extended to incomes of 504
..V4tlid have to pay ss. for the increase, while the Noble
sn▪ '
would have to pay 5001—(Hear, hear.) He looked
an the cost of our national defences as an insurance,
.li;ttitilt was just that the amount paid by individuals
'theo be in proportion to the extent of the property
hQ Y had to be protected. The Bill before the House
r,Pgarded s fraught with in justice, and therefre h
felt-himself bound to give it his most decided opposoition.e I,lr- COWPER said the amendment before the House
t 1,41 supported by the Honourable Members for
_ce West Riding and Montrose, because they ri
the idea of a panic on the subject
in• 1".6a10n, and believed such a thing to be
possib'
'fa ie. Now there were two ways in which in-
tel.iitein might be possible. It might be ph) sically and ma-
cidedlY `o' and that was a point which should be de-
of for: 21 military
End naval grounds. Or the condition
such
mien countries and of Europe generally might be
was a paint which
invasion being attempted, and this
which might be judged of by politicians,
w_ Iv" one on which the Honourable Member for the
feat Biding and his friends might very properly
give their opinions.—(gear, hear.) But the lion.
1, tuber for the West Riding was charmed with the
weft of having his opinion on the military part of the
hquestion placed above that of the Duke of Wellington.—
Elear, hear.) As to the possibility of an invasion,
wever, he thought the lit use could only look to the
.I:ews expressed by those men who had made the princi-
Plea and practice of war their study, and wh were -
tcustomed to the embarkation and disembarkationac of
roop`.—(Hear, hear.) Almost every such authority
d declared that there was no such impossibility of in-
- tulion as the Hon. Member and his friends supposed.
ont only the Duke of Wellington, but all the great
badwho had served under him, and also those who
'IM been engaged in more recent wars, were of this opi-
41Pne—(Hear.) And they could appeal not only to the
uthoril of English but of French officers also. The
44tkl)tt. Member here road an extract from the pamphlet of
▪ e Prince de Joinville, in which he suggested that
;araers might bo employed for landing troopst
in Eng-
" anti subjecting this country to ail the losses and
i
IMulieriogs" of war; and then asked the Honourab e
amber for the West Riding whether ho had
confidence in the forbearance and civility
;1; -wrench officers as to suppose that they
would
caPable of doing that which a prince of the blood be
had
dollyiKat and deliberately proposed?—(Elear, bear.)
not steamers start from site opposite shore
co
appear
,rtnalencernent of the night, and before morning
or
at the
tu-'" sours part of our coast, and bum and destroy !erk
0..
tbtlte of our seaport towns, is the great hurneliaeu a f
ite honour and dignity of Eagland?—(Hear, he r
sseePP4led reference had been made to the defence that
al."u'd be made by our navy; but, though he had the
(3st implicit reliance on the valour, skill, and success
of tile
eel eavy—and though he believed it never was more
elent than at the present moment—yet he would not
eat the defence of the country to one description of
bole," Only; ho would rather have two strings to his
itae", se that the one could be need if the other was in-
'A or mistnanaged.—(hear.) If Hon. Gentlemen
wee
ef p "Peeird this measure consulted the naval officers
oeereuce, they would find that every one of those
pou's'ets was convinced that invasion of this country was
'ible--(Elear, hear.) It was therefore absurd to tell
the ,
le &Louse that the idea of invasion was visionary, when
of 'atm(' all the officers, not only of this country, but
ranee, declaring that it wss a thing of possible tic-
. e""tnPitahnlent.—(Hear.) It had been declared that this
Wintry was insufficiently defended, and if the opposi-
e'tt to tendency measure should succeed, would it not
have a to lead foreign powers to make the
tteenpt to invade it?—(Hear.) There were some things
tfil the Bill of which ho did not approve; but at the same
:le it would give such an increased force as he thought
prould;
Place the country in a state of safety, end his im-
-"ajn Was, that the mere eetablishm, nt of the militia
:Leo would secure the object they had in view, which
(a' to prevent au invasion being even atteMpted.—
erstseep. seemed Othaar.) The Hon. Member for the West Riding, and
to. imagine that they would best promote
batchoy diminishing the military fore's of the country;
there were taro ways in which
.--o,,sat`le,,tme was b Submitting to aggressors, and the
peace might be sought
uy being strong enough to overcome them.-7
"• LW, War.) i;10 *94lTstl WO by itipPiOug the_ 114*

nth Bill he should be beat maintaining the interests of
peace; and that the true principles of peace would be
best carried out by making this country stronr, and
by sivieg it and the whole civil's el world from the
ruin and misery which wetVd fellow if the greatness
and civiliz ition of England were destroyed by a b.cslile
invasion.—(Hear.)
Mr. CLAY sincerely thought that this country was
never so little exposed to en invasion as at the present
moment; but if he were told ny military authorities that
he was wrong in this opinion, then he tieiked what ware
the tint means of defending the co entry ? Now, he had
not heard ono of those military authorities in that
House heartily support Oe 13:11 as afferdieg the best
means of defending the country. ; and an Hon. end Gal-
lant Adaeiral. who spoke the othir eight, thought the
best means of defence was by the organiz Ilion and in-
crease of our naval force. fie thought the Government
would act wisely in encouraging the formation of vo-
luateer rifl-e corps; for their orgas:zation would intro-
duce. among the people a military spirit and feeling of
self dependence, which would constitute the best gua-
rantee for the de force of the nation.
Lard PALMERSTA4 and Mr. WAKLEY rose together.
but the latter gave way in consequence of the general
calls for ‘• Lord Palreasr,ton."
Lord PALMERSTON, who was greeted with cheers,
then said—l can assere the House that I shall detain
them bat a very few minutes. I should not have pre-
sumed to address them on this subject in the present
stage of the debate bat, having been alluded to so fre-
quently by Wale Lion. Members, I cannot reconcile it
to myself not to soy a few words in reference, I
can scarcely say in answer, to what they lan' dono
UJO the honour to say. The only reply I can
make to the ss3ertions of my Honourable Friends is to
meet assertion by counter-assertion—(Elear, hear)—and
their denial of my opinions by an equally 3trong.deuial
of thrirs.—(Beer, hear.) The only answer they made
to my observations oa a former occasion was to express
surprise that those observations should have fallen from
me, and to du-clare their confilent belief that they were
unfounded. The Hon. Member for Manchester and the
Hoe. Member for the West Riding are firmly convinced
that an invasion of this country by the forces of France
is utterly impossible, and, believing that to be impossible,
they think it the height of absurdity for this country to
make any preparation to guard against en impo,•sible
event. I think, on the contrary, such an event in cer-
tain cases possible, to use no stronger word, and I think
it the duty of the country to make preparation to guard
against suct a danger.—(Hear, hear.) The country will
jege bet -.seen those Hon. Gentlemen -and me.—(hear,
hear.) It I am wrung, and if the advice I give is fol-
lowed, at all events the country is safe.—(Loud cheers )
If they ere wrong, and the advice they give is followed,
the country may be ruiced.—(Renewed cheers.) They
dispute authority; they will not receive the opinion
of cffleers of great xperience, of sailors who understand
their profession, of men who have practically faced the
danger, which they call on this country to provide
epinst. These gentlemen, whose habits of life have
been conversant with the peaceful arts, with manufac-
tures and industry, who know nothing of war or the
chances of war—(Cheers)—who know nothing of the
means by which war is carried on, or by which it is re•
sistecl—these gentlemen with to lull the country into a
feeling of security, and to prevent it from taking any
means to provide for its defence.—(Cheers.) But they
have disputed the English authorities. We have heard
just now irons an Hon. Friend of mine that the opinion
of foreign authorities correspond exactly with those of
the English authorities. I3ut I have heard an opinion
e-xpressed by a very high foreign authority bearing upon
this gut stion. I have heard, and I believe it, that the
late King of the French, when ho visited this country
after that dispute which arose upon the question about
Tahiti—and it is not inopportune or irrelevant to
remind the Reuse that upon that occasion, when
this country was on the point of being engaged
totally unprepared in war, that the men who were
the loudest in those declamations that were likely
to bring on a rupture were the very men who
are now preaching peace —(Great cheering from the
Ministerial aide),—l have heard, I say, that upon that
occasion the King of the French, rejoicing in the peace-
ful termination of that dispute, said, however, that he
had been told- by his generals at the time that if a rup-
ture had taken place they would have undertaken that
within a week they would have been in Loncae.—

(Hear. hear.) That may have some weight with those
who despise the opinions of English generals and ad-
mirals.—(gear, hear.) Much misrepresentation, Sir,
has occuried of things that have been state.] by those
who agree in oar opinions in the course Of this
debate. My Hen. Friend a former Secretary to the
Admiralty is supposed to have stated that the French
have in the Channel u force stronger than we c Mid at
the present time muster there. My Hon. Friend did not
state that. What he said I apprehend was this—that the
French, by the means they have of easily and quickly
transmitting from the Mediterranean either the crews ot
the vessels they have there, or the ships themselves,
would have the opportunity and means, within a very
short period of time, of placing in the Channel a su-
perior force than we in the outset of the war should be
able to collect.—(Hear, hear) I have been supposed to
say that the expense of 15,000 regular troops would not
be greater than that of 80,000 militiamen, end
I think my Hon. Friend who made that allusion just
now seemed to mix up with this question the expense of
the ballot. What I said was this—that the annual cost
of maintaining 80,000 militiamen during the 20 or 28
days they might be trained and exercised would not be
greater than the expense that might be incurred of
maintaining 15,000 regular troops all the year round,
and it was my opinion we should contribute better to
our contingent means of denerice if we had the_power of
calling oat 80,000 men within a week than by adding
15,000 to the reviler trooes. But ray Hun. Friend
chellenged ine to say when this House had refused to
etee Government the force which the Gevernment
thought neces.ary for the defence of the country. For-
tunately this House has not yielded to those very ener-
getic appeals we have heard teem may lion. Friend the
Member for the West Riding and others, to reduce the
very limited force which we have deemed sufficient,
from jime to time, for the immediate emergencies of
the service.—(hear, hear.) But I would put it to
them what would be their expectation of success of
a motion of this kind, if the Government had pro-
posed an addition of 20,000 or 30,000 men to the
gular army, and at the end of two years they had
been able to say—" You obtained this force under the
panic of invasion; there has been no invasion, and you
ought no longer to continuo an expense which experi-
ence has proved to ba wholly unnecessary e"—(Hear,
hear.) I have the greatest possible respect for opinions
which are sincere, and are founded upon deep conviction,
and therefore I am far from thinking with anything like
disrespect of those opinions which I believe to be at the
bottom of much of the opposition which has been given
to the motion now under discussion.—(Hear, hear.)
Those opinions and convictions have not been fully and
broadly stated by those who haVe taken part in this de-
bate; but they have been broadly and fully stated in a
pamphlet I hold in my band, and which is not unworthy
the consideration of gentlemen who have turned their
attention to this subject. It is a pamphlet ably written,'
—written evidently with a deep and serious conviction of
the principle therein laid down,—that it is contrary to the
Christian religion to do violence to any man, even to
your enemy.—(Bear.) The object of tend pamphlet, then,
is to show that it is the Christian duty of this country to
be conquered by France.—(Cheers and great laughter.) It
is in the shape ot a dtelogue, exceedingly amusing,
between gentlemen engaged in a r,fle club or in the
duty of soldiers—a very odd duty of soldiers certainly—
but one of the speakers in this dialcgu,4 paints in very
vivid colours the results of an unopposed invasion. lie
says, "I grant you 250,000 men may come over from
France to this country." I said that 50,000 or 60,000 melt
mie h t come, but the writer of this partaphletgoes far bee and
my calculation—(A Laugh)—but he says, " they will
come unopposed, they will take possession of London, they
will seize the Bank, where they will not find 18,000,0001,
but they will I. vy contribu ions on all the inhabitants of
London—(Laughter)—Parliament will be swept away;
the courts of iiistce will bo abolished; the French Gene-
rals will issue edicts; there will be a new Parliament,
eonsioing of Freachmen—(Roars of laughter)—the Code
Napoleon will be substituted tor the,l4w of England—
(Leughter)—the Sovereign will live like a private indi-
vidual in Scotland—(Great laughter)—the Government,
of ceurse, will be annihilated, the country will be en-
tirely governed by this French army who is to invade
it; but," says this writer, "what does it signify?—
(Great laughter)—we shall go on working our mills-
-(Great ironical cheering from the Ministerial side, and
counter cheers)—we shall stand behind our counters and
sell our wares in our shops—(Cheering continued)—
people must eat, they will want clothing, we shall sup-
ply them wile their wants, and we shall go on making
money,"_
_(Great cheeriog and laughter.) One might
say, if that even, should ever happen to those gentleenon
7:1(? mad© money they might find as unhappy application
tmenaselhes of those very well-known lines—
" Sic vos non vobis mellificatis apes,
thisfail pamphlet to eea eaten
goesup b
Sic vos non vobis yellers fortis over,"
—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—and the sheep would not
y the wolves.—(Hear, hear.) Then
would astonish the on
whole ol "Y
that that state of things
they wool;] creep on, no aria-
world.—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) At first the French
an sennush laid for them;
;would think there was
nn there would be
bush would be discovered
among those 250,000 wouldbae;ine Christiant feeling
without
thinke of the
tams, after
to
and deep reflection, who
,
from
wonderful spectacle of a nation
a foreign foe; and in tho course of
fury or more millions sterling had been removed
this country to France, the French would be so ter-
ribly ribly ashamed of their position—(Great laughter) 1.-
-oe the very ridiculous position in which they had
placed thenweives that they would all go back to
France and leavo this country to its own resources; nay,
so deeply would the sense of their ridicalous position he
d' , they
would
impressed on their minds—and
.we know that the French
people are Most susceptfide of ridicule—that
offer to send us back those 50,000,0001. sterling which
they had taken from our bankers, merchants, and trades-
men; and then they would be done again; we should
example— should ma-
show them a more glorious ex
e
in "sincer© and
Yet I believe this is written
nanimously refuse to take it.— (Roars of laughter.g )
sober earnest, and not at all in
h but, if ho
will read the pamphlet, lily lion. Friend may laugh, the spirit of ridicule.
—(A laugh.)
he will see there is throug
out a tone of sober seriousness which convinces me
that those who wrote it are, in point of fact, that WI
at whose instigation much of the opposition made to
this measure is raised. Now, then, the House and
the country are to determine between two alternetivei—
whether th-ey will, as required by the party from whom
this pamphlet emanates, voluntarily submit this country
to the miseries and iniquities—for those are the words
uzed—of a conquest by Feance as a
justiatonement for
_
t
'
.the sins this country has in former
t this
spromes committed by
waging war—for that is the ground
on which
'Deeding is urged—(Bear, hear)---the country and Patlia-
meat, I on
I%t
to
(le
toil lo
whether they- will bow

LONDON,

the victims of that system of submission which is re-
spired by those whose organs, I must suppose and he,
hove. tire resisting this measure in this Ideuse—or whe-
ther they are still sultieiently wedded to their ancient
notions of independence and self-vindication hich w euld
leaf them to resist a foreign invader and provide all
necessary means by which,. if that invasion of the
eoutory should ever flapper, it might be sufficiently re-
pelled.—(Letni cheers.) • • .
Mr. W AKLEY regretted that, the Noble Lord, Gifted
as he was with such gigantic powers of intellect, shouldr
have so fallen from his position as to have quoted such
detestable trash as he had just read from a pamphler„--
(Oh, oh.) He (Mr. Wakiey) strongly suspected that
this trash had been published in a lunatic asylum, and
ho recommended the Noble Lord to pay a visit to it, for
he would admire the institution and the persons he found
in it.—(oh, oh.) Surely there must bo something going
on in the great Whig family to induce the Noble Lord
to act in this manner; it was only matter of wonder,
however, that it hal held so long together, considering
the heterogeneous and extraordinary materials of whice
it was °Jeep med. But why hid not the Nohla Lord
acted upon the opinion of the King of the French, and
increased our army in 1844, it it needed augmentation?
There could be no misunderstendieg the, cheer with
which Hen. Gentlemen opposite had received that pas-
vage of the blockhead pamphleteer in which he spoke of
the " working of the mills."—(lronical cheers.) But
there had been something potent in the working of these
mills; for they had ground a party of Protectionists into
a party of Free-traders.—(ob, and laughter.) Hon.
Gentlemen might make wry laces, for the operation was
no doubt torturing, but they had confessed as much.—
(Oh, oh.) The budget was ono proof, and the workers
of mills had accomplished the. transformation.—(Cheers.)
The Honourabh) Gentleman continued—Tou (point- ,
ing to the Opposition benches) must not repudiate the
mills, nor your master, Richard Cobden—a greater man
than any of you--(0h, oh.) Why, I atn sure no Hon.
Gentleman opposite considers that an offensive remark.
I say that Richard Cobden is one of the greatest men
who ever lived, and you are his disciples.--(Oh oh.) I
expect a great deal of effrontery from Hon. Gentlemen
opposite; but do not be ungrateful to that great man,
your mentor, Richard Cobden.-a(Oh, ob.) They had
examples enough to show the evils arising from arma-
ments. Did they believe the liberties of
,any country
were safe that had large armaments? Soldiers had
brains, end no country was safe that relied upon armed
men. He complained that Hon. Members on both aides
of the House had been pointing out all the nooks and
creeks by which a foreign foe could safely reach and
land in England. But they had really no fears on the
subject. They knew that the population would rise as
one man and defend the liberties they held so dear, and
the Sovereign they loved so well. The Governtiaent must
know that they would not get skilled
.mechanics to enter
the militia—they would not leave their `work to take
a shilling a day—they would get none but the farm-
labourers. and after a few days' training they would send
them back much worse than Mere. If they were so
wealthy—if free trade had given them so large an
amount of spare capital, why should they not, instead of
expending it in putting.instruments of death into the
hands of the people, expend it in educating them? lie
believed that the Bill would be found as mischievous as
it was unpopular, and he should give it his must strenu-
ous opposition.
Colonel THOMPSON thought the proceedings of the
[louse were approaehiog closely
.to a burlesque. He
did not believe that any of the persons who were in-
terested in the promotion of the principles of free trade
would hive written such a pamphlet as that quoted from
by the Noble Lord. Ile. was ready to admit that a
danger bad existed, but it bad passed away. He be-
lieved they would have ample notice of any attempt at
assault or invasion, and although the despotic ruler of
the French might be desirous of an assault upon
England, he believed , the people of France would not
now co-operate with him in such a perilous undertaking.
He believed, also, that a volunteer rifle corps, of a small
numerical strength, would bs far more efficient than a
large body of local militia. That was the opinion of all
military men of any experience.
quoted by the
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said he would be able to show
Ha so u as
House.
—t h(eGr r
oPa
tu rltacuhg, h
ttehre. r)e were
That
wmoourl
de
before he sat down that if the pamphlet
PNuoubolehosLiourdthow
probably add much to the liveliness of the debate, and
ho was sure they would receive the announcement with
satisfse ion that the printer was a candidate for the seat
of his Hon. Friend Mr. Hall for the city of Perth.-
--(Loud laughter.) He regretted that the Noble Lord,
the late- bead- of the Government, had not produced
something better after six years than this hall-hatched
egg. and given them some better means of defence. The
Militia Bill was not applicable to their present position,
but it was the only one their rulers brought before
them, and they must either vote for it or reject
it, and go undefended. He agreed with the Ho-
nourable Member for the West Riding that there
might. be a better distribution of their forces. He
did not think they required , troops in the north, and
suggested they ought all to be moved . down to the
southern counties. There was no occasion for troops in
the large manufacturing towns to trample upon the peo-
ple.—(A laugh.) Nay, if the Hon. Gentleman would
enter into a treaty with the President of the French to
enter the Mersey instead of the Thames, he did not
know whether he should not vote against' the Bill.
He was not sure a small invasion would not do
them a great deal of good. They were in a con-
didon like that of the overgrown spoiled boy, when all
wished that somebody would give the fellow a good
licking. He thought it would do the country a great
deal of good to got a good licking.—(Great laughter.)
If an invading army appeared, he believed these mills,
which had done such wonderful things, would soon cease
working. Now (said Mr. Drummond) they were a very
rich peeple—they bragged of their wealth—but they
fir er e though; much richer than they really were; and
they advertised the fret that they did not intend to de-
fend themselves. Why, their refusal to do so was just
as much as to say to the French, " Ceme over and plun-
der us, for we shall not resist."—(Hear, hear.)
Lord J. MANNERS next rose, but was very indis-
tinctly heard in consequence of the noise that prevailed
in the fleuse. He was understood to obEerve .that the
Hon. Member for Finsbury had stated that no justifica-
tion was offered for this measure. He (Lord J. Manners)
should, however, have thought that the opinions pro-
nousced by the most eminent moo in the country upon
this subject might have had weight even with the Hon.
Member for Finsbury. He must remind the Route of the
necessity under which, this measure was proceeded with—
viz., the House had pronounced by its vote that a Bill
should be introduced for the organization of the militia,
and it was in obedience to that vote that the present
measure was brought in. The greatest objections
were urged against the increase of the army and 'navy.
Under these circumstances,
it being generally admitted'
that the defences of the country were in a most defective
state, the Government were of opinion that the addi-
regard to the beat interests of the country by the adop-:
tional forces required' could be best obtained with duo;
tioa of the present measure--a measure that was less,
hostile to the feelings of the
people, and better calculated
to meet the objects they had is view, than any other,
)urse which they could take. The Government, therea
•
tore, confidently asked the House to reject the amend-
ment.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Sir, I wish to state, in the
first pleat), that I cannot vote for the amendment now
proposed, because I think it d airable, the House having
decided by a vela; large majority in favour of the second
reading, that we should proceed in Committee to dis-
cuss the various clauses and provisions of this Bill.
But whilst I cannot agree with many of the statements
made in the very able speech of the Hon. Member for
the West Riding, I must at the same time protest
against the formula put forward by the Noble Lord the
Member for Tiverton. The Noble Lord says that there
is this alternative—" If you vote for this Bill you will
at least be safe, whilst if you vote for the amendment
you may p ,ssibly be ruined." Sir, the whole of my ob-
jections against this Bill are comprised in this, that it will
not make you safe. I agree with the Noble Lord, not as to
the extent of the danger, not as to the sudden nature of
the attack that ho seems to apprehend, but as to the
necessity for providing against dangers which, in the
event of war, must be greater than they were at former
periods. The Government, undoubtedly, has fairly un-
dertaken the execution of the wish of this House, as ex.
pressed in its resolution, that a Bill should be brought
in; btetT have co asidered this matter as well as I could
'before the second reading, with the view of ascertaining
whether it was possible for me to propose such amend-
msnts in Committee as would render the Bill much mote
efficient as a means of defence for the country, and it
seemed to me that while I might perhaps succeed in de-
feating some of its clauses, I coald hardly be successful
in inserting other clauses and other • provisions that
would give strength and efficiency to the measure. I
therefore came to the conclusion that it would be better
that the Bill should at once be rejected, in order that tie
Government might provide a better force for the defence
of the cottetry.—(llear, hear, and a laugh.) I need not
allude to the various other means that have been sug-
gested by different Members of this House, and some of
them by myself, as being more adapted to secure the-
peace of the country. If this Bill had not been enter-
tained by the House, I feel not the slightest doubt if
the Government had thought it necessary to resort to
iorne of those other means, that there are hardly any
of them that are not better than the present Bill.—(0b.),
I see Gentlemen doubt my opinion; but really though I
have heard the Bill very much defended in this House,
I hardly heard any ono of experience, still less
any person of military experience, say that they
thought this measure would be effective.—(Hear, hear.)
Gentlemen seem to doubt what I have stated; but I
shall put to the Gentlemen the following case, in order
that Gentlemen may bring home to their minds the in-
efficiency of the measure which the Noble Lord the
Member for Tiverton says is to make this country safe.
--(Hear, hear.) If the email regular force be not in-
creased no ono can doubt that if a war were to break out
n
g oarheoolclro oc
separatepersotah in the situation of commender•in chief would
betweenable Lto
ncollect
hide thethe
nei hb
south caait. Now an •
ppob
e an
invasion
took
place
in
a
distant part of the c
docks, and supposes
in Cornwall, or in Pembroke
suppose. 5,000 men
of this raw militia were
suddenly directed against that organized French force,
would any one believe that a such f
cient to send sgainet-that french force, and if that were
me would- be suffi•
not a sufficient force to send against
be effective. But then I am thattod the them this Bill will act
proposed to introduce is one of a siraiia measure that we
n y question that may be raised as to ther natare, and that
difference be-
tween a local militia and a regular
great importance, There is coupled with this °n°
°f
seems inconsistent with such statement —namely,
Ys that whica
it was right and wise, and entirely from publicam el'that
spirit
sad patriotism, that a majority of this House refused
leave to me to tiring in a Bill, founded upon a principled
se
of local militia; and, on the other hand, that I could
not oppose the regular militia except from motives of
party and faction.—(Hear, hear.) I own I cannot see
(hot) ja Anything .very onyiuoing iw this statement,_