The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-06 00:00:00

year there was a proposal to swamp the whole establish-
ment at that place, and transport it to Woolwich. He
rested divide the house against this vote, as he felt unable
to sanction the principle of an outlay of money, made
without consulting anybody, and without knowing whether
they were right or wrong. He considered the manufacture
of carcass shells, as proposed now to be conducted, cue of
the grossest jobs ever known. In the end, the recommen-
dations of the committee would be found far more
valuable, and far cheaper than those of any lot of scheming
engineers.
Sir J. PAXTON observed that Government had pur-
chased a very excellent site for exercising large bodies of
troops at Aldershot, with two railways and a canal close to
it, and they had heard that large barracks were to be in
readiness this spring for an extensive encampment of
troops. He had been surprised to find that nothing was
done, not even a tender sent out, before the 22d January,
when tenders were issued for the erection of huts to hold
20,000 men, to be completed by the 15th March. It struck
him at the time as very extraordinary, that the Ordnance
should only have given six weeks for this purpose, as on
calculating he found that it would require the contractors
to deliver from 500 to 600 tons of building materials a day
on the spot. On examining the specification he found that
the timber to be used was to be fir from Memel, Ries, or
Dantzic, and yellow Christianadeals; but if they asked any
wood contractor in London they would find that there were
not sufficient deals in the country to erect half of them. A
fortnight after the 22d another tender came out from the
Ordnance-office, for foundations to be laid in concrete and
brick, thus giving but a single month to lay the foundations
and fix the whole buildings. (Hear.) . He need not say this
was almost an impossibility, and if it were done it would
be the most wonderful thing that had ever been done in
this country; but he did not believe a word of it. (Hear,
and a laugh.) According to the terms of another contract,
there was to be a regular expenditure of 10,000/. a month
in
been
facility.e permanent
nmadeH to
aode
tnbhanehr barracks, ae
enable
issued
theks ,
contractors
teetn dno
tenders
r spl preparation est pto art
begin
io n w
their h a
wt eovrekr
withhad
summer for 20,000,000
bricks to be laid down on the spot, he did not believe it
would have been necessary to put up the huts they were
now going to frame at so large an expense, and they would
have had a largo portion of the brickwork finished by this
time; but nothing of this had been done, and now a large
sum would have to bo sacrificed in precipitate operations.
With regard to the small arms manufactory at Enfield, he
heldlit to be a very bad principle for either the Government
or companies to manufacture a thing themselves unless
they wanted it regularly. It would be very impolitic and
prejudicial to the interests of Government to have large
establishments fitted up in war times which would not be
wanted in days of peace. It would, besides, have a very
bad effect on the manufactories of Birmingham, for when
a large demand arose they could not expect that any ex-
pansion in the means of supply would take place.
Lord SEYMOUR said it had been shown in the com-
mittee last year that 15s. might be saved in the manufac-
ture of a 3/. rifle by giving up a little superfluous decora-
tion; but Government would neither abandon the useless
ornament nor consent to give the enhanced price. When
they wanted a speedy supply, evidently the first thing to
be done was to give out the pattern, but they had not
done this, and then they came down to complain that the
supply was not delivered in time. He thought it singular
that they should not know to whom the expenditure of
the large sum to be voted on account of the Enfield estab-
lishment was to be entrusted. They could not expect the
London and Birmingham manufacturers to improve their
machinery if the Government announced their intention to
erect a large establishment at Enfield. He admitted that
a small manufactory at Enfield would have been useful; it
would have been a check upon the private traders, and
would have ensured a wholesome competition as to quality.
But the house was asked to vote a large sum of money
for the establishment of a vast manufactory, and to
entrust the expenditure of the money to a Board of
Ordnance of which they knew nothing. The vote for tha
Ordnance-office had been postponed, and nobody knew
how the board was to be composed. Were they, as
men of business, to be called upon to veto a large sum of
money, to be expended by men of whose names even they
were entirely ignorant ? Ho was convinced that they would
get their arms more rapidly if they dealt with the trade in
a fair manner, which they had never yet done, as had been
proved most conclusively by the speech of the hon. mem-
ber for Birmingham. The Board of Ordnance had misme
naged the whole busioass ; they had notobtaincd what they
should havo got ' • and he had no doubt that if they had
issued their contracts early in May last, and proceeded like
men of business, they would have been supplied with a
much larger quantity of arms than they had actually pro-
cured. He observed that no less a sum than 375,0001. was
to ho expended for barracks at Aldershot. Now he thought
it was to be a sort of encampment, and that soldiers were
there to be prepared for actual service ; but he was afraid
the men were to be so luxuriously housed, that they would
be rendered totally unfit for warfare. Did they moan to
stable the horses in the same way as in cavalry barracks,
where the animals were unfitted for work in the field? For
military operations he doubted whether that mode of using
the houses was a wise one. Wen he looked at the large sum
of 375,0001., he was curious to know whether the Govern-
ment had asked Sir Charles Barry to build the barracks at
Aldershot. Again, the house was asked to vote a sum of
60,0001. for barracks at Dover. Who was going to look after
their erection ? No private individual would dream of com-
mencing to build a house at the very moment he had dis-
missed his clerk of works. Yet that was the very thing
, which the Government now proposed to do. They had got
rid of the Board of Ordnance, and yet they came down
and asked the house to vote 60,00 11. for the erection of
barracks at Dover, which, he presumed, had nothing to do
with the war with Russia. Again, the Government asked
a considerable vote for the defence of commercial harboers
—12,0001. for Liverpool and 10,0001. for the Humber. Now
that measure might ibe necessary ' • it was possible that
our fleets could not defend our coasts from the Russians;
but he did not think it would be wise in the house to vote
so large a sum of money until they knew something of the
establishment under which it was to be expended. He
had heard no reason whatever for departing from the prin-
ciple laid down last year with regard to the establishment
at Enfield, and unless the Government could give them
one, he should be disposed to reduce the vote by a sum of
40,0001. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. G. DUNDAS was surprised at the hostility evinced
by several hon. members to the manufactory at Enfield
for making small arms by self-acting machinery, under the
surveillance of the Government. Ho trusted the house
would adopt the suggestion that had been made by the
Clerk of the Ordnance, and not go to a division.
Mr. LAYARD said the house had heard in this discussion
several pleasing instances of the neglect, mismanagement,
and ignorance of the Government departments. These ex-
posures were coming to be too frequent ; and what was very
curious, they never heard of any person being punished on
account of these things. There was one subject upon which
he would like to have some explanation from the Clerk of
the Ordnance—he meant the fusees. He could bear witness
to the fact, that the hums issued during the early part of
the siege of Sebastopol were so disgracefully bad, that out
of every ten shells thrown no more than three or four burst
at all. He believed a report was made to the head of the
department upon the subject, representing that gross negli-
gence had been shown in the construction of the shells, and
he should like to know whether that report, drawn up in
the middle of last October, had been sent to this country,
and whether in consequence any steps had been taken to
investigate the case, and punish the guilty parties, whoever
they might be ? There was another question which he
should also like to put to the hon. gentleman. He observed
in the estimates a sum of 50,0001. for clothing, accoutre-
ments, and knapsacks to the foreign legion. He should like
to know what the foreign legion was ? (Hear.) They had
heard a good deal of it ; the bill for its embodiment was
pressed upon them in a very hasty manner at the end of
last year, but up to the present day he did not know where
this mythical legion was, of what it was composed—whe-
ther of Austrians, or Germans, or Spaniards, or Dutchmen
—or why they were asked to vote 50,0001. to dress these
men of straw. If men had been obtained, ho should like to
know whether they had been consulted as to their clothing
and accoutrements ? When he was in the Crimea hetalked to
many French officers about the English knapsacks, but he
never heard one who did not point out the great superiority
of the French knapsacks over the English in point of light-
Less and convenience. He wished to touch upen another pain t.
There was a large sum in the estimates for the engineers,
Ner he did net intend to depreciate the ability of our en-
gineers, but he thought it would be admitted that our
theoretical engineering work was not creditable to this
country, and he believed he was net far wrong when he
stated that up to a late period not a single map had been
sent to England of the siege operations before Sebastopol.
Such a state of things was not creditable to our engineers.
It might have been recently improved, but it existed so
late as the end of December. An hon. and gallant member
had referred to the hospital at Smyrna. Now it was stated
by a member of the Government on the previous occasion
that this hospital was merely intended for winter and not
for summer. Bat the winter was almost passed, and sum-
mer was rapidly approaching in that c.iuntry, and it was
only to-day he read in the public papers that nurses and
attendants were sent out to the Smyrna Hospital. Smyrna
was a very unhealthy place in summer. There was not a
single English family resident iu it who did not leave it
during summer. Surely we had lost life enough already,
and ought not• to throw more away in this wanton manner.
(Hear.) He did entreat the Government not to go on in
this way any longer. The country was too excited with
its losses to tolerate such conduct. (Hear.). Why, the
hospital at Sul:vine was built in the corner of a bog, at the
lowest and worst part of the town, and in a few weeks the
place would be afflicted with gastric fever, which always
raged there in summer. Ho also desired to call the atten-
tion of the Government to the state of Bal sklava. That
harbour was a hole, surrounded by lofty mountains, and
when the warm weather came they would have a plague
breaking out at Balaklevajand perhaps carrying off every
man there. (Hear.) Ho did entreat the Government to
reflect upon that subject. There was still another point to
which he desired to refer—he meant the Turkish contin-
gent. It was proposed to raise in Turkey 20,000 men, to
bo commanded by English officers. A general officer of
whom we knew nothing was to be sent out to take the chief
command, and he observed that one member of the staff
was a relative of the Minister of War. He did entreat the
Government to consider these things setiously. Major.
General Vivian might be a very good man, but certainly
what they knew of him was notsufficient to counterbalance
the want of some knowledge of the country, of the Turks,
and of their language. If the Government had sent out a
sum of money to enable Omer Pacha to support histroops
some months ago, they might have secured the services of a
good Turkish contingent; or if they were to employ a number
of Turkish officers, they might, at least to some extent, effect
the object in view; but he did not think that a Turkish levy
under English officers exclusively would ever succeed.
Mr. NEWDEGATE supported the proposalfor reducing
the vote by 40,000/. It had been said that the arms trade
of this country could not produce an adequate supply
for the Government. He denied that statement. The arms
trade of England supplied not only the East India Com-
Pally, but the French Government, the Portuguese, the Spa-
nviesernli,tmtho of
net,he
Peruvian, the Russian, and, indeed, almost every
Government in the world ; but such was the mismanage-
inn
arms tend Ordnance department that the Imperial Go-
vernment e
oEn
le ga l annertl
supply.was t the
He
only Government
wouldGo ve
tellrnm theen h
t ourwohuiseehhow
ltahsatt
yeaream euttaotie 1 a
pass.t I lt, was proved before the committee
viewers inspector for small arms gave such
instructions to the that they were obliged to reject
a large quantity of gee
only one man in England arcoUrd
1
the Ordnance test; and when
in question, was asked whether theln
aiocet Lovell,i t was found that
producetr arms able to stand
tnoreer theentgeeonntlier
de-
pond
the negative,ana Now,
5,000 such
muskets,p end upon
h e an
the annualed emspuhpaptliee a
loify
it so happened t Mr. Lovell was appoi,
the Great Exhibition. A number of gun-leeks had been
rejected by his subordinates, acting under his instructioenen
One of those gun-locks was sent to the Exhibition. vehasi,
was the result ? Mr. Lovell gave a first prize to the very
article which his own subordinates had rejected in cense-
(A laugh.) The traders com-
ere not fairly treated by th
pq
au ei nn co ed
,o
moreover, f his in s ti' ut ch?t nt sh.e y w
aGnovoerdrnermefonrt ianrnaotshewritrhesoin)etcts.
the Iptahuldrnbelevnaawenallerseaidw-taheattee
paper. Well, what were the exact dates oftheordeenrtselraesdt
year? On the Ist of Jan, the Board of Ordnance