The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-20 00:00:00

their just authority. I have, however, learnt a lesson from
the scenes which have passed before my eyes during no in-
considerable experience in this House. The first political
meeting I remember to have attended was a meeting of
Lords and Commons of the Whig party at Burlington House,
on which occasion Earl Grey addressed them. That was in
1817. Lord Grey addressed the Lords, and Mr. Ponsonby,
as leader in the Commons, addressed the Commons. They
told us that a Bill was to be introduced for the suspension of
the habeas corpus, and that other Bills were to follow,
restorative of the liberties of the subject. Those Bills were
not found sufficient, and in 1819 six other Acts were intro-
duced still further to restrict the privileges of the subject,
and to prevent the outbreaks of the democracy. Demo-
cracy was then to be feared. We heard frequently of at-
tempts at insurrection, and the beginnings of riot. We
had even the sorrowful spectacle of spies sent out by the
Home Secretary, who misused, as spies are apt to do, the
power and trust confided in them, and brought, even to
capital punishment, some of their victims who had been
seduced into rebellion.—(Hear, hear.) That was indeed a
melancholy (spectacle. At one time it was said that the
factory workers from Manchester were about to march upon
London ; at another time that an insurrection had broken
out at Derby, and was likely to spread over the whole coun-
try.—(Hear, hear.) Afterwards a change took place in the
executive Government; Sir R. Peel became Home Secre-
tary, and Mr. Canning Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and it
was followed by a change in our position both at home and
abroad. Sir Robert Peel turned his attention to the amend-
ment of the criminal law with the greatest argument and
firmness, and at the same time with lenity, and paid much
regard to all that related to the domestic government of the
country.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Canning proclaimed the sen-
timent of " the cause of civil and religious liberty all
over the world," and this House and the country re-
sponded to the generous sentiment he had uttered, and to
the admirable policy he pursued.—(Hear, hear,) It was
no longer necessary to have those laws that were so restric-
tive of the liberties of the people. Earl Grey afterwards
succeeded to the administration of affairs, and was followed
successively by Lord Melbourne and Sir Robert Peel, when
the same system was pursued. The Attorney-General, who
had been so active in that former time to which I have re-
ferred, made a more discreet use of the power intrusted to
him, and ceased to contend unnecessarily with offences
against the public peace.—(Hear, hear.) A change took
place—not to the advantage of democracy, not to the advan-
tage, at least, of democratic opinions—but for the benefit of
the great body of the people, who became more attached to
our institutions, more attached to the monarchy, more at-
tached to the authority constituted by the laws of
the country, and thereby more satisfied, and less de-
sirous of any change in our national institutions.—(Cheers.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of
Control told us the other day that he admitted the people
were now in a state of prosperity. That prosperity, as I
believe, is mainly caused by those changes in our com-
mercial policy which have allowed the people, while their
employment has been increased, to obtain with their wages
a greater portion of food, a greater portion of comfort, and to
afford them some surplus for the education of their children
and the cultivation of their own minds.—(Cheers.) These
are the means by which democracy is to be met. If the
Noble Lord now at the head of the Government means to re-
sort to other means—if the laws that he has in contempla-
tion are opposed to the general sentiments of the country—
and if he contemplates that those laws will require to be en-
forced by other means than the present, let me tell him that
instead of discountenancing democracy, he will be the
greatest favourer of that democracy.--(Cheers.) Rely upon
it, that it is not by attempts to reverse the present policy
that you can hope to retain the affections of the people. It
is by a system of quiet, peaceable, and enlightened progress,
by going on without any violent aims or violent convulsions,
but at the same time showing that you have the people's in-
terests at heart, and that you will not abate a jot of the
people's rights.—(Cheers.) Do this, and you may rely upon
it that the attacks of democracy are not to be dreaded.—
(Cheers.) In the meantime, if it is merely intended by that
language to raise an election cry, nothing can be more con-
temptible.—(Great cheering.) Nothing can be more un-
worthy of a Minister who is called upon to preside over the
destinies of this great country.—(Loud cheering.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Sir, the
Noble Lord who has just addressed you, reminded the House
that there were two questioas before us, or, rather,
that the question before us might be viewed in two
aspects—a constitutional and economical view. But I beg
to recall to the House this fact, that the question before it
is one of a much simpler nature—it is the first motion of the
newly-constructed Opposition, and • that motion is one to
stop the supplies— (Great cheering and counter-cheers)—
a motion gaily proposed by the Hon. Member for Middlesex,
respectfully recommended by the Hon. Member for Liver-
pool, and I have a right to suppose enforced in a speech of
great length and eloquent preparation by the recent First
Minister of the Crown.—(Cheers and counter. cheers.) We
shall meet the Noble Lord and the newly-constructed Oppo-
sition on the issue they have themselves selected, and on
that issue we intend to divide.—(Loud Ministerial cheers,
and cheers and laughter from the Opposition ) The Noble
Lord seems to be much astonished that any imputation of
faction should for a moment have been raised against him.
We were told, indeed, the other night, by the Noble Lord
or one of his supporters, that it was a new doctrine in the
House to suppose that asking questions of a new Ministry
was factious; but I do not think that the charge of faction
on the leader of the new Opposition was established on
any dicta of such a character. I understood that the Noble
Lord, when in the position of First Minister of the Crown,
and unable, in consequence of the attacks of his own friends,
to carry on the affairs of the country—(Oh, oh)—felt, by
his own confession, and after deliberation with his Cabinet,
that it was inexpedient to dissolve Parliament, and that
they then recommended her Majesty to send to another in-
dividual to form a Government. What we think is factious
in the Noble Lord is, that after that declaration he should
have constructed an Opposition, the first principle of
which is to force his successor to an immediate dissolution.—
(Loud cheers.) But, says the Noble Lord, a remarkable
event occurred between my declaration as a retiring Minister
and my first adventure as the leader of the new Opposition.
A speech was made, and a speech, too, in another place,
in which was this remarkable declaration—that the new
Government, acording to the chief of the Administration,
was in a minority in the House of Commons ; and upon
that phrase the Noble Lord felt himself justified in changing
his conduct.—(Hear, hear.) " Because that phrase was
used," the Noble Lord said, "and riotwithstandihg my de-
claration that a dissolution was inexpedient, I now feel my-
self justified in urging a dissolution of that very Parliament
which I bad said should net be dissolved."—(Hear.) But,
indeed, the Noble Lord is so deficient in evidence to prove
the want of confidence of the present House of Commons
in the existing Government, that he can refer to no facts, he
An appeal to no votes to justify the opinion or sanction the
conclusion he has arrived at. All he can do is to urge a
phrase used in another place, and one employed
by the Right Honourable Gentleman the Secretary for the
Colonies. Now, I ask, if expressions of this kind are to
be considered as conclusive of the disposition of
the House of Commons? Are expressions of this
kind to justify the Noble Lord in totally changing his
policy on a subject of such immense importance, and leading
to such considerable results ?—(Cheers.) I have arrived at
a different conclusion on the subject from the Noble Lord.
All the precedents which he has found to apply to this sub-
ject are precedents of condemned Governments.— (Hear,
hear.) And really to place our position, condemned only by
the too friendly or too modest calculations of an individual,
in the same catalogue with those Ministers that, after long
discussion and great deliberation, and in some instances
quoted by the Noble Lord in Houses of Commons assembled
ender their own influence, have been condemned—to treat
us as if we were in a similar position, because it is conve-
nient to the change of position of the Noble Lord, is to me
one of the boldest expedients that ever was adopted even in
the annals of opposition.—(Hear, hear.) But under what
circumstances did the Noble Lord have recourse to this
position ? I refer to them without apology, because
an enumeration of them formed not the least con-
siderable and not the least interesting part of the
Noble Lord's address. The Noble Lord said,—" Have
I not ' a right to summon my public friends to my pri-
vate house? I hear that other leaders in Parliament
assemble their friends together, and surely I am not well
treated when you are so severe on me because I ask to my
private residence my friends to assist me with their counsel."
—(Hear.) Now, if the Noble Lord had only asked those
friends who had voted for him on the militia question—
(A laugh) —if he had only asked those friends who were
absent oa that occasion to assemble at his house, and if
they had atoned for the past and counselled for the future,
I am sure not a single observation would have been made.
—(A laugh.) It would have been concluded that all was
exactly in harmony with the declaration which the Noble
Lord had made in 'his last official speech from the Minis-
terial benches. But instead of that, we find by the autho-
ritative statement that has been published, that the Noble
Lord does not address his friends, but his enemies.—(A
laugh.) He addresses those who made his Government un-
comfortable, and said, " ti entlemen, you see what it has all
ended in. Let us forget the past; let us understand each
other for the future. You have a superstitious prejudice
against oligarchical Cabinets : forges the past, and the oli-
garchial Cabinet shall become a broad-bottomed Opposition.
—(Cheers and laughter.) The Reform Bill of this year did
not please you, but let bygones be bygones, and we shall
understand each other, I have no doubt, on that subject."—
(Cheers and laughter.) That was the character of the meet-
ing, and it seems to have been successful. The Noble
Lord appears in his new capacity, and the moment he
does appear, he announces a course on his part exactly
the reverse of that which he had announced when he sat
on this bench.— (Cheers. ) But there must be an excuse
for this, and the excuse was half-a-dozan words of a speech
delivered by Lord Derby, and an expression in answer to a
question made use of by the Right Honourable Gentleman
the Secretary for the Colonies—(Hear, hear)—the easiest
reason for the greatest result that probably ever was dis-
covered.—( Hear, hear.) But the Noble Lord also discovered
that he had been ill-treated by the Opposition, now the oc-
cupants of the Ministerial benches. The Noble Lord hes
been an unfortunate Minister.—(A laugh.) He was worried.
—(A laugh.) After such a long and illustrious experience as
the Noble Lord has had—after all that has occurred to him
since that meeting at Burlington-house, where they were
addressed by Mr. Ponsonby about the sad manoeuvres of
Lord Sidmouth's spies, who would have thought the Noble
Lord could have been worried in Oleo by a Protectionist
Opposition ?—(Cheers and laughter.) He was worried,
too, by poisoned weapons—by a motion about Lord
Clarendon, and by a menaced attack on Lord Grey—
he was worried by a commanding majority on the first
motion, and by the second not being brought on.—(Laugh-
ter.) And now, when the Noble Lord indulges in these as-
sertions and in criticisms on his opponents, would it not be
better to turn his reproaehes on those political friends and
followers who, on the critical night that turned out the late
Government, did not muster to the number of 130 ?
I cannot help thinking that some more important reason may
be found for the overthrow of the Ministry than a debate
upon Lord Clarendon, and a menaced attack upon Lord
Grey, which was certainly escaped, I will not say evaded.
—(A laugh.) I have now put before the House an an-
swer to the Noble Lord as to the exact issue before us.
It is a motion of the new Opposition to stop the supplies,
so far as I can collect, sanctioned by the late First Minister
of the Crown.— (No, no.)
which he had favoured Lord J. RUSSELL—I made no such motion.—(Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I have to
beg the Noble Lord's pardon. I listened attentively to the
speech of the Noble Lord, ex. pecting that. after he had con-
cluded the interest'
deicended to announce that he endarruastivhe
he would
amusing arguments with
sanction the proposal
of the Hon.
]Member for M. at last have con-
iddlesex to negative these esti-
mates.—(Cries of.. The
The CHAIRMAN k re's no such motio n. ')
mittee—namely. a
vote
read the questa • on before the Com-
which was received *hie for the number of men for the army,
being no mention of any ameeeors by the Opposition, there
The CHANCEL of the amendment.
motion before the Committee • bat CHEQ EXCHEQUER.—That . R —That is the
Hon. Member for Middlesex &t I understood that the
Y announced his deter-
mination to oppose the motion, °ll
but also, .his intention to di-
vide upon it.—("No, no.") It gives nit pleasure to under-
standitd that that the Noble Lord has
recec
1 from the perilous
position he was in.—(" Oh, oh 1" and (sheets.) I am glad
the House understands that on; second I`.hough.ts the Noble
Lord does not support the amendment:._(,. Oh, oh !" and
Ministerial cheers.) I will now advert to' the second part 'of

the question according to the Noble Lord's division of it. I do •
not exactly understand what the Noble Lord wishes the Go-
vernment to do on this occasion. He has said that
there has been to a certain degree a great want of reserve,
and, on the other hand, that there has not been that explicit
declaration of principles that would be acceptable to him.
He admits himself that there has been, to a certain degree,
an absence of reserve, though not such a declaration as he
would require. Perhaps an impartial judge might think that
on the whole our declaration was as explicit as was neces-
sary.—(" No, no!") Here is the Hon. Gentleman, the
Member for Liverpool, who gave us a grave admonition to-
night, and he I most clearly understood as sanctioning the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Middlesex.—(" No, no.")
Mr. CARDWELL—I beg to inform the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman that the idea of refusing the number of men necessary
for the army, or giving a negative to the proposal before the
House, never entered my head.—(Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—There is
another proof of the advantage of discussion. I should like
to hear if there is any other seceder from the Opposition,
and I shall be curious to ascertain who has the courage to
follow the Hon. and Gallant Member for Middlesex.—
(Cheers,) I tell the Noble Lord, that when we go to the
country the issue is as distinct as in such circumstances it
ever has been. It is clearly an issue whether the country
has confidence in the present Administration, or whether
it hair not.—(" No, no," and cheers.) It is clearly an
issue whether the agricultural interest believe or do not
believe that if we remain in power we will do our utmost
to redress the grievances of which they justly complain.
—(Cheers.) I believe the issue is distinctly understood
by them, and, notwithstanding the speeches of the Noble
Lord and his new ally the Hon. Member for the West
Riding, that they are perfectly satisfied that that issue
should be placed before them.—(Cheers.) I was
reminding the Hon. Member for Liverpool that he had
founded his lecture upon the conduct of Sir Robert Peel in
1841 ; but I might also remind the Hon. Gentleman (I don't
wish to make more of the instance than it deserves), but still
I might remind one who is a most fervent admirer of that
eminent personage, that in 1835 Sir Robert Peel professed
upon this subject very different opinions, and pursued a
very different course from what he subsequently adopted.
I cannot so impose upon myself as to say that the opinions
of Sir Robert Peel in 1835 were those which he entertained
in 1841; at the same time I must observe that the circum-
stances are different from those of the present time.
Theren vote proposed of a want of con-
fidence the existing Government by the existing
Commons. I think it would be more decent
,o s
House of
i s
in nott h now any
to propose a vote of that kind previous to a motion
stopping the supplies.—( Ministerial cheers.) The
N dwelt much upon the unconstitutional
conduct of the Government in presuming to carry on the
affairs of the country in the present state of the House of
Commons; but Lshink it is rather a large assumption on
for
rble Lord has
the part of the Noble Lard to state that the Government is
unable to carry .measures in this House.— (Loud cheers from
the Ministerial benches.) If the state of the House had
been undoubtedly in favour of the Government it must be
quite evident that the Earl of Derby would not have brought
forward at the termination of a Parliament those measures
which it WAS understood he was pledged ultimately to bring
forward on the responsibility of the Government. It was
country, that no attempt to redress the grievances of the
Y
dagisrtiicnucittl understood by the country, and accepted by the
agricultural interest should be made until the public voice
had been taken. Had we been assured of a majority on ac-
ceding to office, it would not have prevented us from pur-
suing
her Majesty to refer the question now pending to the people.
But as regards the result of an appeal, even to this waning
the course we are about to take, namely, to advise
Parliament, after all that has occurred, and after all that
has been said as to our not obtaining a majority, I
want to
Lord can command a greater number of followers
know why are we to assume that the Noble
than ourselves ?—( Ministerial cheers) When the Noble
Lord accepted office in 1846 be certainly did not
accept it with a party so powerful as that which now
honours the present Government with their support.—(Hear,
hear.) The Noble Lord came into office and was con-
. fessedly in that instance as we are at present, in a minority.
The Noble Lord had not a majority of followers in support of
his Policy, but he proceeded to propose a measure which im-
mediately placed his Government in danger by the over-
whelming majority of Sir R. Peel, and had the followers of
that Right Hon. Gentleman acted upon their convictions
the Noble Lord must have been left in a large minority.
But Sir Robert Peel rose and said that he did not approve of
the measures which the Government were then pursuing,
but at the same time he did not wish to see the opportunity
of proceeding with the Government taken out of the hands
of the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord did not on that occa-
sion dissolve Parliament, although he was pursuing a policy
on which the country wished to express an opinion,
but be went on with his Government, and he
was justified in doing so ; just as I conceive
we are at this moment justified in the course we
are now pursuing. I am most sensibly aware of
the great difficulties which a new Government, consisting in
many instances of inexperienced men, have to encounter, but
I have confidence in the good sense and good temper of the
House of Commons ; and nothing has yet occurred to make
me lose that. I don't understand any existing reasons for
me to suppose that the judicial measures which it is in-
gsthsheowsupib spirit Y
he has the Noble
Lord
in-
tended the Government should bring forward will not be
supported by a majority. With that conviction, I will not
defer to the ignoble opinion that her Majesty's present:Govern-
ment is existing on suffrance.—(Loud cheers from the Mi-
nisterial benches.) lam grateful for support, but Ido not
deprecate
s h hostility.oul
db
e actedß ut feeliinn, if theupon
this evening evinced, I do not hesitate to say that they
partake ,of a factious spirit, and I believe the Noble Lord
will not be supported by a majority of this House. If mea-
surei are brought forward deserving the approbation of the
Rouse of Commons, I believe the House will support
those measures. The Noble Lord has made some observations
to ich perhaps I ought not to allude, because the Noble
Lor
si
evidently addressed himself to a speech made in an-
othel assembly by another person. But in an elaborate ad-
dreg; by Lord Derby that Noble Lord took occasion to ex-
prese an opinion that the present Government was entitled
to support, because it was a barrier to democratic innovation.
To this the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Russell) says,
" Democratic innovation ! Why, was I not a barrier to
democratic innovation?. When have their attempts been
successful ? Have they not in every instance been checked
and I successfully resisted?" Yes, I admit all that ; but
allow me to ask the late First Minister of the Crown, by
whose aid was he successful ?—(Ministerial cheers.) By
what means was the menacing democracy repelled ? By
whose aid was the Noble Lord enabled to defeat those large
schemes of Parliamentary reform of which the Noble Lord
was wont to speak with derision and contumely? And,
when an ex-Minister discourses so learnedly and eloquently
upon the public credit of the country, and on the difficulties
of revising taxation, let me ask him when a proporstion
which would have at once reduced the taxation of the
country by 10,000,0001., and that voluntarily, was pro-
posed to this House by the very individual whom he has
since summoned to Chesham-place--(Loud cheers from the
Ministerial benches)—what was it that prevented him and
the 130 gentlemen who supported him on the Militia Bill
from acceding to so disastrous a proposition? The Noble
Lord has confessed to a misapprehension of the meaning of
Lord Derby which I did not expect from him. It has
not Entered into the mind of Lord Derby, in any policy
whic...l he may recommend Parliament to support, that
it abould be a policy which will require physical
force to uphold it. Lord Derby said he was pre-
pared to uphold the venerable and valuable institu-
tionsj of this country. It was not that he wished the
advaskee of freedom and improvement to be checked and
phys* al power to be invoked; bat what he meant was
that, eing. himself animated by a feeling of true patriotism,
and elieving Parliament was prepared to support a policy
fours d upon national honour, that when that appeal to
the country should be made which is now pending, he
would meet with such large support that he should be
able to originate in Parliament measures which he
believed to be necessary, and that he should be able to pass
them, and find himself to be a successful and powerful
Minister, because he placed the highest confidence in the
support of the English people, believing himself to be sup-
ported alike by the favour of his Sovereign and the confi-
dence of his fellow-subjects.—(The Right Hon. Gentleman
resumed his seat amid much cheering.)
Mr. BRIGHT did not mean to discuss the various ques-
tions alluded to—not even the principle of free trade, for that
was not before them. The question was, whether a Go-
vernment formed of a minority which had declared the
policy of the majority to be pestiferous and dan-
gerous, should be allowed to administer public affairs, with-
out appealing at once to the people. If a minority of 230
could carry on the affairs of the country, so might a mino-
rity of 30 or 40 do so, and claim the forbearance of the
House. The delay that had taken place without any alarm
or danger since the meeting of Parliament proved that mea-
sures of national defence were not urgent, and might be
postponed till a new Parliament. He did not blame Hon.
Members opposite for taking office or for their conduct in
opposition. One party was not more factious than the other.
If, however, Hon. Gentlemen opposite changed their opinions
on-a question of public policy when they changed sides, re-
spect for public men would be diminished. From 1842 to
1846 the policy of Sir R. Peel was towards free trade, and
the last great advance was made in a case of great
emergency. But were Honourable Gentlemen opposite
about to abandon protection without having any
grounds similar to those on which rested the change of Sir
R. Peel's opinion. It was not long since that the Protec-
tionists endeavoured to excite the farmers against the com-
mercial classes. He recollected reading a report of a meet-
ing of farmers in Cambridgeshire, at which one of them
statel that he would as soon march on Manchester as on
Paris.--(Hear.) natives not unlikely.—(A laugh.) Per-
haps the farmer in question feared sea-sickness. Another
boasted that the farmers had more horses than the other
classes, and knew how to ride them. He believed that the
Noble Marquis opposite, the Member for Stamford, was the
most consistent member of the Protectionist party. In or
out of that House the Noble Marquis had always held the
same tone, and it was not, therefore, suprising that the Noble
Marquis was not a member of the Cabinet. He felt cer-
tain that if the Noble Marquis had had a seat at the council
table, he never would have consented to a course of con-
duct so ambiguous as to excite suspicion. He appealed to
the Hon. Member for Somersetshire to state his opinion of
protection. It was of no use denying protection, for in
the House and out of it, and in the press of the Protec-
tionists—the Morning Herald, _Morning Post, Standard
—there had been a constant cry for protection.
The difficulties of the Government were difficulties which
had arisen out of the impossible policy they advocated when
in opposition, and they were not difficulties from which
they should be allowed to escape until they had either
recanted their Protectionist principles, or appealed to the
constituencies to decide the question for them.—(Cheers.)
What that (the Opposition) side of the House wanted was
a dissolution of Parliament, for they felt confident that the
judgment of the country would be pronounced in favour of
the policy of 1846 ;l and if the Government felt the same
confidence in the contrary policy they would be quite as
eager to dissolve as they were now afraid of taking that
step. Their organ in the press boasted that the Ministers
had been re-elected everywhere without opposition, and
that this showed a most remarkable unanimity—of course,
a unanimity as between the Marquis of Exeter and the Earl
of Egmont.—(A laugh.) What were those Ministers as
representatives of the people ? Take, for example, the Pre-
sident of the India Board (Mr. Herries). The whole pepu-
lation that Right Hon. Gentleman professed to represents
was 9,000 persons—men, women, and children. Of courset his
real and
real constituency was my Lord Exeter—(Laughter
(Sir J.
cheers.) Take next the Secretary for the Coloniestwassaid,
Pakington). That Right Hon. Gentleman,_Hear , h ear, and a
had the good fortune to return himself—
( he lived in a
laugh)—and, as might naturally be expected,i
'
state of uninterrupted harmony with his constituents.—( ,oud
for the Home Depart-
laughter.) Take, also, the Secretary
Bright) would not pass
ment (Mr. Walpole), and he (Mr.not quite sure that
by that opportunity of saying, that he was
any Member in the House would regret to see that Right
Hon. post he
Hon. and Learned Gentleman in the distingi
R ht Hon. Gen-
now filled—(General cheering)—but that g
7 0 ersons only
tleman represented a constituency of ,
these three Cabinet
the whole population represented
by
ons—men, women,
Ministers amounted to but 23,050 pers
mber of electors on the
and children—whilst the actual nu,' from the Opposition.l
/
registry was 1,212.-0 Hear, heata
Buckingham,Chichester,
After alluding to the boroughs of
t n Mr. Bright.l
reterafield, Lisburn, end Tortarling 0 r said