The Sun.
London, England, 1852-04-21 00:00:00

PATENT LAW AMENDMENT BILL.

Lord COLCHESTER, in moving the third reading cf
this Bill, stated the alterations which had been intro-
duced into the Bill while in Committee. The nature of
these alterations, however, did not reach the galls ry.
After a few observations from Lord WALDEGRATE and
Lord CAMPBELL, the Bill was read a third time and
passed.
Tne Bishopric of Quebec Bill was also read a third
time and passed.
THE MAYNOOTH GRANT.

The Marquis of Cf... ANRICARDE rose to put a
question to the Noble Earl at the head of her Majesty's
Government as to his intention relative to any future
grant to Maynooth. After going into the history of
the original endowment, the Noble Marquis said that
the answer given by the Noble Earl opposite to the
question put by a Noble Lord not now present (Albe-
marle), had been materially disturbed by the speech of
the Solicitor-General (Sir F. K.lly), delivered only a
few days ago, in which that Learncd Gentleman stated
that he was ready to concur with the Government,
of which he was a Member, in any step to pot an end to
the College of Maynooth, if such a step should
be found necessary upon inquiry, and if the existing
contract and engagements could be got rid of with
honour. With regard to any inquiry, no notice of any
intention of moving for a Committee on the subject had
been given by the Government in either House. There
certainly was a notice of motion for a Committee on the
subject standing on the order-book of the House
of Commons, in the name of Mr. Spooner, but
the proposed object of that Committee was
not to inquire into the existing contracts and engage-
ments with the College of Maynooth, but to inquire into
the nature of the education given at that college. That
was a motion which when male by a Noble Earl
(It den) not now present, in 1845. the N ,ble
nog at ehe head of her litik•sty's Government, had op•
posed. This was a subject of such greet importance
:oat the Government ought not to leave this country and
Ireltuld in the dark as to their real intentions ; and if
they had any intention of making au alteration in the
present settlem-nt of the veition, it was not on the
has.ings but before Parliament that they ought to
deliver them.

The Earl of DERBY said that he thought that the
difficulties of maintaining the endowment to Maynooth
to which he had alluded on a previous occasion, would be
greatly increased by the speech of the Noble
Marquis. The Noble Marquis had more
leisure than he had to real newspaper re-
ports, but he must protest against her Majesty's
Government being made responsible for any newspaper
reports of any speech whatever upon the hustings; and
still more for the accuracy of any comments which the
Noble Marquis might make upon that report.
From what no could learn from the Noble Mar-
quis of the speech in question, the Solicitor-
General appeared to be of opinion that the set-
tlement of the Maynnoth question in 1845 had not pro-
duced all the good effects which had been anti-
cipated from it. In that particular point he
could only say that the Solicitor-General shared
the feeling of a large number of people
He quite agreed with the Noble Marquis that any in-
tention of any alteration ought to be proclaimed before
Parliament, and not on the hustings, and he could only
repeat his former statement that her Majesty's Govern-
ment had no present intention of making any
alteration in the present grant to Maynooth;
but should circumstances arise to make any such alter-
ation necessary, ample notice would be given in both
Houses, and the Noble Marquis would have full oppor-
tunity of taking any steps which he might think neces-
sary for the purpose of opposing it.
Earl GREY thought that his Noble Friend was en-
titled to a distinct answer to the question which he had
put relative to a most important matter. The Noble
Earl opposite was a Member of the Government which
had brought forward the Bill of 1845, and in that House
had appealed to their Lordships, as statesmen and as
Christians, not to reject that Bill. If there was a respon-
s in rejecting the measure when introduced, surely
was greater of rejecting it af er it had
been the law or the land for seven years. The Noble
Earl had stated that the Government, had no present
theib llri reap
sponsi
oility
intention of proposing. an alteration, and had laid great
strew on the word "present." Now he did not Ask
the Noble Earl to pledge himself never to repeal the
Act of 1845; but he thought be had a right to ask
the Noble Earl whether the views which he expressed
on the question in 1845 were now altered. Upon that
claration. Reference bad been made to a speech of the
ciple which ought to
that the Right Ron. G
point their Lordships were entitled t) an explicit de-
Chancellor of the Exchequer on the subject of the prin-
tleman was Gentleman guide Parliamentary government.
Without saying
right in the application which be had made of those
principles, he must say that the Right Hon. Gentleman
had stated them with singular ability, and, abstractedly
tgso f
agitation electorsgoing
oo n n
ataiheon: qnooth question. Go•
considered, with sin.ular correctness. Their Lordships
were all aware of the efforts now waking
to excite the
feelings
vernment were not justified in adding to and stimulating
h
the different religious
bodies by refusing
which was excitiag them. The Noble E sr! was mis-
taken in supposing to express their views on the question
that his Noble Friend who had asked
the question had gone the length of giving up altogether
the ground of good faith and adherence to a contract,
expressed or implied, as a reason for continuing the
grant. There was certainly an implied promise that
the college would not be allowed to be put d
He hoped the Government ware not going to adopt
the same course on this subject as they had on the
question of a duty on foreign corn. He hoped they were
not going to avoid the reaßomibility of expressing a de-
citk4 %WOO OD the tubilotv fad tint they Were not

going to allow officials connected with the Government
to go fishing for a few anti-Catholic votes, while they
themselves avoided committing themselves on the ques-
tion. Such a position would be a most unworthy one
for the Government to stand in, and before the conversa-
tion ended, he hoped the Noble Earl would give them
some clear explanation on the subject.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE wished to know
whether there was to be an injury on the subject?
The Earl of DERBY—AII I said was, that the con-
struction to be put on the speech of the Solicitor Gene-
ral was, that en iteteiry was to be moved fur, not by the
Government. but by a private Member.
Earl GREY—Does the Noble Earl adhere to the
opinions he expressed in 1845?
The Earl of DERBY—I do not think the question is
one which the Noble Earl has a right to ask or any
other person.—(Cheers.) I can only say that I have
been greatly disappointed with the results of the mea-
sure of 1845—(Renewed deers.)
The Earl ot MINTO—The Noble Earl has said that
he had no intention, as at present advised, to alter the
arrangement with rasp ct to Maynooth. Supposing that
the Noble Earl spoke for himself, I should like to keow
whether, in the event of such a' proposal coming from
some other quarter, the Noble Earl will be prepared on
the part of the Government to resist it?
The Earl of DERBY—If the Noble Earl gives notice
of an intention to move for the repeal of the Act of 1845,
I will be prepared to state the course which Government
would pursue.—(Cheers and laughter.) •
The Berl of HARROWBY said he might ask the
Noble Earl (Earl of .15linto) if he entertained the
same opinions now which he did in 1845 ?
(Laughter.) For his own part, he wished to see a full
investigation
The ob-
ject was to ensure a loyal
Roman
Catholic priesthood for Ireland. The
question in the first place was, had Maynooth pro-
duced a' loyal priesthood for Ireland, or was it breeding
oenofthe of
etnhdcowment subject by a Committee.
up a priesthood, not only for Ireland, but for the colo-
nies and England also_
(Hear.) If that was so the
question would be materially altered. The withdrawal
of the grant would be a grave step, and he did not say
that it would not be better still to Continue it, but he
requiredreson investigation,
He believed that several misre-
tations had been made at the time when the Bill
of 1845 was proposed. He did not believe that the po-
verty of the college was such as it had been represented.
He did not believe that the students were suffering from
p
the privations stated by Sir Robert Peel, and he had con-
siderable doubts whether the funds fur the education of
Roman Catholic priests for Ireland were appropriated
solely for that purpose._(aear.)
Earl GREY thought the Noble Lord had taken a
somewhat unusual course.—(A laugh.) He was not
aware that he had ever expressed an opinion as to the
results of the Act of 1815. At that period he was a
Member of the other House, and he had no recollection
of ever having made
any speech on the subject. He had
supported the measure certainly not so much from any
expectation of immediate results, but from its being
held out as a conciliatory measure to the R :man Ca-
tholics of Ireland, and which he believed would be
accepted by them in that spirit. He bad always thought,
and still thought,
that the state of things with
reference to the endowments of the Church ot Ireland,
was one which could not, and ought not permanently, to
remain. The great body of the people were Roman
Catholics, and the Church established was one of ex-
irem" wealth—(Ob)—he would not say extreme, but of
great wealth, derived in a gr. at measure from the en-
dowments possessed by the Roman Catholic Church
300, or 400 years
ago, and which the Roman Catholics
thought they ought still to possess. That wealth had,
however, been transferred to the Church of the minority,
and formed the means for providing
religious instruction
for that minority,
composed of the, more wealthy classes
There were at the same time Parliamentary endow-
ments for venous classes of Protestant dissenters in Ire-
land, but except the annual grant to Maynooth no pro-
vision was made fir the spiritual instruction of the great
mass of the people. It appeared to him then, and it
still appeared to him, that this anomalous state ot things
ought not to continue. If the situation of matters were
reversed, and Ireland had not a majority of Roman Ca-
tholics, be, as an English Protestant, would not rest con-
tent
m
tent until he procured the establishment of a different
state of things. It was with such views that he had sup-
ported
by the
the ea
h:
he had any confident
establishment
bmteteot say
of
a
Maynooth, or that he
opinion that any good system of education would be se-
curedhad any confident opinion the measure would work any
marvellous good, was quite contrary to fact. It was
tendered in that form and be accepted it.—(dear, hear.)
Now, he hoped his Noble Friend would admit he had
pretty clearly explained his opinions. Those opinions
might be right or wrone;
-•but if wrong he had not
shrunk trout fairly and honestly explaining them. If
wrong he had held them in the other House of Parlia-
ment, and the same opinions hare uniformly guided him
since he had a seat in their Lordship's house.—(bear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was, like his Noble
Friend (Earl Grey), about taking an unusual course—
he was about to answer a question which had not been
put to him. His Noble Friend opposite had said his
question was put to those who supported Sir R. Peel in
his Msynooth policy as to their motives and expecta-
tions in giving that statesman their support. Having
been one of those who had strenuously supported the
measure he felt bound to state, though he did not ex •
elude from his consideration the hope the Noble Lord
adverted to, that it would prodace a favourable effect on
the conduct of the Roman Catholic clergy, it was not
in the hope of producing that effect that he gave his
support to the measure. He looked to no such bargain
as the Noble Lord seemed to think was the case. He
did not adopt from the Noble Lord that ground
assigned for the measure, but ha adopted the
ground assigned by Sir R. Peel, that it was important
to the Protestant people of England that the Roman Ca-
tholic clergy should have a good education. This was
an object not dear to Roman Catholics only, but dear to
every member of the community composing the country
at large, who, not being able to ignore or to prevent the
existence of the Catholic religion in Ireland, had a deep,
eommon, and lasting iuterest in educetlon being con-
ducted according to the approved forms of the Catholic
Church, and subject to the inspection and observation ot
the Government authorities. That was the ground on
which he supported the measure—that was the ground
of that statesman—and he should be glad to know if his
Noble Friend (Lord Uarrowby) saw any reason for
changing his °pillion in that respect. He also supported
the measure on a ground not adverted to by the Noble
Lard, but which he thought important at the time—
namely, that it had been found necessary for a period of
30 years, by every Minister, and by every Government,
to come down to Parliament, and year after year to raise
the question, and to place themselves under the neces-
sity of calling upon Parliament to do that which
Parliament had always been reluctant to do, and
which had always created strife and opposition; that
be saw in the measure a provision for a standing
grievance end inconvenience which excited strife,
political disputes, and irritation, and that therefore he
for one felt obliged to the Government of the day,
headed by Sir R. Peel, and supported by the Noble Lord
opposite, for the means they took, as far as lay in their
power, to put an end for ever to these circumstances,
calculated as they were perpetually to renew and keep
open the sense of grievance, which it was the object of
all seise Governments to cover over, to palliate, and, if
possible, to obliterate. He supported the measure on
those grounds, and seeing as he did the immense import-
ance of avoiding the constant recurrence of mischievous
discussions on the subject in or out of Parliament, he ad-
jured the Noble Lord and Government not to hastily
adopt a course calculated to lay the foundation once more
for a perpetual renewal of those annual votes and discus-
sions, as must bo the case if the old policy was resumed.
If this vote was anuu illy proposed, it would renew and
perpetuate all the evils to which he had alluded. He had
thought it right to state these matters to the House. He
had supported the measure on the grounds he had stated,
and he was prepared to support it again, not because he
thought it would have the effect of augmenting the
loyalty of the Roman Catholic priesthood, but because
it was best for the public at large. Of this he was sure,
that the loyalty of the Catholic priesthood would not be
increased by a withdrawal of the vote.

The Bishop of CASHEL protested against the state-
ment made by the Noble Earl (Earl Grey), that the
Church property was obtained at the Reformation, and
handed over to the Protestant hierarchy. No such
thing happened. Of the Roman Catholic Bishops at the
Reformation the greater number embraced the Reformed
faith, and continued in their sees. It was no more the
fact that the Roman Catholic priesthood in Ireland were
robbed of their property to be handed over to the Pro-
testant priesthood, than the Roman Catholic priesthood
in England were robbed of their property to have it
handed over to Protestants. The property in both cases
passed the same way. The Church property in both
countries was not given to the Roman Catholic clergy
because they were Roman Catholics. but given for the
maintenance of religious truth. The Church of England
and the Church of Ireland stood
,on the
same ground,
and any Noble Lord who stood up and accused the
Protestants of Ireland of robbing the R ,men Catholics
of Ireland made the same accusation against the Pro-
testants of England. No doubt, as the Noble Lord had
said, there was a larger number of Roman Catholics in
Ireland than there were Protestants; bat the Protestant
Church of Ireland had been endeavouring, not without
success, to bring the light of a purer religion to the
Irish Roman Catholics. It was a siugular fact that the
majority of the people of Ireland who went to the land
of liberty--America—to be freed from the persecutions
of priests and neighbours. conformed to the Protestant
Church.
000, e From the Quarterly Review be collected these
was 23 000;
facts:— -s a. ne population of America
3,000,000 of that number were Irishmen born in Ireland;
4,500,000 were of Irish descent; and of the whole
number of 7,500,000 Irish in America,
Propagande only claimed 1,663,000; thus billowing how
many Irishmen received the truth through the instruc-
doe given by Protestant ministers. the annals of the
Earl GREY asseieed his statement was correct respect-
ing the Rumen Catholic Church property
in Ireland. The
case of England and Ireland was certainly alike, but with
tfie flec
this difference, that in England ks and prelates
went over to the Reformed religion. ; but in Ireland it
was only the prelatea who wont over. He was one who
conceived that Church property
was held, not for the
benefit of the priesthood, but for the benefit of their
flocks; and he could not therefore conceive that the pre-
sent arrengement of matters was beneficial to the mass
of the people of
Ireland. It was a strange statement,
that which had been made by tee Right Rev. Prelate
about the large number of Irish in America who con-
formed to the Protestant religion. Ile believed the
statement was correct, and the only reason why the same
effect did not occur in Ireland was in consequence of the
injustice of the arrangement which had prevailed for
three or four centuries, and which had proved the ob-
stacle to the spread of the inherent truths of Protes-
tantism among the people of Ireland.
Tne subject then dropped, and their Lordship ad- 1
journal .

HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 20.
The SPEAKER Wok the (;heir shortly before Fuur
o'clock.

RDYAL COMMISSION-7

The Usher of the Black Rod (Sir A. Clifford) appeared
at the table to summon the House to attend at the bar
of the Peers and hear the Royal assent given by com-
mission to the Mutiny and the Marine Mutiny Bills.
NE W WRIT.

Ou the motion of Mr. F. MACKENZIE, a writ was
ordered for the city of Worcester, ta the room of Mr. F.
Raiford, who has acoPpted the office of Steward of her
Majesty's Chiltern Hundreds.
PRIVATE BILLS.

The following Bills were read a third time and
passed !
Abi-l.deen Fire sad Life Assurance Company.
Accidental Death Insurance and Railway Assurance
Compapiei Amalgamation.
Gla,gow, Kilmarnock, and ,Ardrossan Railway.
Newmarket Railway.
Somersershire Central Railway.
South Wales Rillway.
Thetford Fen District Drainage.
York, Newcastle, and Berwick, and Malton and Driffield
Junction Railways.
York, Newcastle, and Berwick Railway (Thirsk and
Balton Branch).
Londonderry and Coleraine Railway.
Londonderry and Enniskillen Railway.
The following Bills were considered and agreed to:—
Athlone Markets and Customs.
Cork and Bandon Railway.
Dundalk and Enniskillen Railway.
Eastern Counties Railway (Branch to the River Nene,etc.)
Earern Counties Railway (Junction with the East and
West India Docks, &c.)
PE rl HONS.

Mr. W. PATTEN presented a petition from Preston
praying for the repeal of taxes on knowledge.
Mr. HINDLEY presented a petition from Newport
against the Militia Bill.
Mr. H. FOLEY presented a petition irom a place in
Worcestershire to the t•ame effect.
Mr. ANDERSON presented a petition from a place
in Scotland, praying for the repeal of the Test Act.
Mr. SPOONER and several other Hon. Members
presented petitions against the Maynooth grant.
Colonel THOMPSON presented a petition from the
letter-press printers of Bradford, praying for the repeal
of all taxes on knowledge.
Mr. MULLINGS presented a petition from Thetford
against the removal of the Crystal Palace.
Mr. WILLIAMS presented a petition from Lambeth
to the same effect.
Mr. JAMES CLAY presented a petition to the same
effect from Hull.
Several petitions were presented from various parts of
the country, praying fur the repeal of the attorneys'
certificate duty.
Mr. BRIGHT presented petitions from Manchester
and elsewhere against the Militia Bill.
Mr. MOWAT I' presented a similar petition from
Penrith; also a petition from the Painters' Company,
praying to be F xempted from the operation of the Cha-
ritable Trusts Bill.
Mr. W. COWPER presented a petition from Hertford
in favour of ocean penny postage.
Lord DUDLEY STUART presented a petition from
Maryleboue and other places against the Militia Bill.
ORDERS OF THE DAY.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER, it was agreed, after a short &suasion, that on
Thursday the 4th of May the orders of the day should
have precedence of notices of motion.
FINANCIAL STATEMENT.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL inquired of the Chancellor
of e Exchequer if he was now prepared to fix a day
for making his financial statement.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied,
that what he said with regard to the financial state-
ment was, that he hoped that when the House met after
Easter he should be able to fix a day, but he did not
say that he would fix a day. He hoped, however, that
in a very short time he should be able to do so, but
particular reasons connected with the public service had
hitherto prevented him.
WORKING CLASSES.
Mr- SLANEY gave notice that on this day fort-
night he would move the appointment of a Standing
Committee to report from time to time on measures
likely to prove beneficial to the working classes.
MAYNOOTH GRANT.
_

Mr. SPOONER postponed his motion respecting the
Maynooth Grant till Thursday, the 4th of May.
• Mr. BRIGHT wished to know whether tho Hon.
Member aid really intend to bring forward his motion,
as it had already been postponed two or three times, and
the repeal of the grant was being made a party cry
throughout the country.—(Order.) He ought to fix a
day, and stand by it.—(Continued cries of " Order.")
Mr. SPOONER—I have fixed a day and will stand
by it; the reason I have postponed the motion is that the
position it occupied on the paper rendered it utterly im-
possible to bring it on.
MASSACRE AT THE SOLOMAN ISLANDS.

Mr. M. AIILNES asked the Secretary Co
Admi-
ralty whether any steps had been taken by her Majesty's
Government, to inquire into the facts connected with the
reported massacre of Sir Benjamin Boyd, at the Soloman
Islands, with the view of placing the question of his fate
beyond doubt, and of taking such ulterior measures as
may be necessary?
Mr. STAFFORD said directions had been sent by
the mail which left on the 24th ult. desiring one or two
vessels, which were under orders to return home,
to return by the route of the Soloman Islands,
in order to obtain some account of Sir Benjamin Boyd.
Of course every measure would be adopted for his relief
in the event of his still being alive. Efforts would be
made to enlist the services of the United States' whalers
who frequented these islands in the search which was
being made for the missing gentleman.
Sir R. H. INGLIS asked the Secretary to the Admi-
ralty how far the attention of the Board had been di-
rected to any plan or plans for facilitating disembarka-
tion from ships into boats, in the event of fire occurring
at sea; and how far the crews are or ought to be exer-
cised in any such plan or plans.
Mr. STAFFORD said that sedulous attention had
been directed to this important subject by the Admi-
ralty, and some of the many inventions which were
almost daily submitted to the Admiralty for facilitating
the lowering of boats would be put into practice on board
her Majesty's vessels. Instructions had been given to
the captains of vessels to keep the boats and gear in
proper condition, so that they could be easily re.
leased, and they would be required to enter a weekly
report on the log book.
MR. BRAGGS.
Lord DUDLEY S ruAR, C wisned to put a question
to the Chancellor of the Exchequer respecting some
outrages alleged to have been committed on British sub-
jects iu Tuscany, and particularly on a non-commissioned
officer named Braggs. belonging to one of her Majesty's
ships at Leghorn. Had any steps been taken to obtain
redress fir .qr. Bragg..?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was quite true that Mr. Braggs having got into some
squabb!e with the police was ill-treated, and the agent
of the polie3 was imprisoned for his misconduct for eight
days. Government, ho wever, would not accept this as Suffi-
cient reparation for the outrage, and negotiations were
still going on with Tuscany on the subject.
Lord D. STUART said that information had reached
him that no such punishment had been inflicted upon
the superintendent of the police, but only on one of the
corporals.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had
been given to understand that the punishment was in-
flicted on the chef de post dui ensd
Rarmie.
MR. MIE.

Lord DUDLEY STUART should be glad to know
what was doing in this case.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that as active negotiations were still proceeding in
the matter, it would be quite out of place for him to
enter into details now.—(Hear.)