The Sun.
London, England, 1852-04-27 00:00:00

TUESDAY EVENING-, APRIL 627 1852.

(Hear, hear.) He was convinced that such a change
would be beneficial to the country, for both rioting and
bribery generally took place on the second day ; and he
hoped the House would have no objection to act upon
this part of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He considered that
the tom had come when there ought to be some equali-
zation of the constituencies of the country.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said that for twenty years he
had been endeavouring to extend the county franchise,
and would not allow any opportunity to pass without
continuing his efforts in the same direction. The Noble
Lord, the Member for Colchester, had given a very
valid objection to the introduction of the Bill.
but it came too late, for the House had given its sanc-
tion to a principle which, if adopted, would have the
effect of filling the House with paupers.—(Hear, hear.)
On a former occasion he showed that the right of voting
took its rise in ancient times in service rendered to the
Crown, and he thoughtthat the vote should be given to all
persons who had at any time served under the Crown.—
(Oh, oh, and Hear, hear.) A sneer at that proposition
for the advocates of universal proposition was ill-timed.
He warned the Earl of Derby and his collegnes not to
6' pooh, pooh" the question, for by doing so they were
only it as a legacy to Lord John Russell, who
w leavingoukl avail himself of it on the first opportunity for the
purpose of turning them out of their places.—(Hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT protested against the argument of the
Noble Lord the Member for Colchester, that in bring-
ing forward discussions of this nature they were
obstructing the progress of public business, and delay-
ing the dissolution of Parliament. He believed that no
Government business come on to-night, even supposing
the motion of the Hon. Member for East Surrey had
been withdrawn. The Noble Lord called this a hack-
neyed subject, but every great question which had been
carried had been treated by Hon. Members opposite as
hackneyed.

(LEFT SPEA RING.)

MARKET INTELLIGENCE.

(From the London New Yriee Current, April 27.)
SuGAn.—To-day the supply of West India Sugar at
market was limited, and an advance of 6d per cwt was ob-
tained for all descriptions. Indeed on Barbadoes the rise
was Is ; and a public sale of 196 hhds 23 tics wont with
spirit, tine yellow at 39s to 40s 6d, good 36s 6d to 3Ss 6d,
middling 343 to 365, ordinary 32s 6d to 33s 6d, low middling
grainy :333 6d. Of Jamaica 50 hhds 2 trc were disposed of.
ordinary and middling yellow at 32s to 333, fine brown 31s
to 31s 6d, 145 hhds and 7 trcs Demerara, ordinary and mid-
dling yellow 31s to 32a 6d, fine brown 303 6d, washed 30s to
3ls 6d ; and 8 Wads crystalized white 43s per cwt.
REFINED.—To• day there were ready buyers of Refined
Sugar for home consumption, and prices ruled firm, brown
lumps at 45s to 45s 6d.
Mnuarrius.—This afternoon there were ready buyers of
Mauritius Sugar, and an advance took place of Gd to is per
cwt. At auction 6,750 bags were sold, good to fine yellow
went at 34s 61 to 365, middling 33s to 31s, ordinary 31s 6d
to 32s Gd, good to fine brown 29s to 31s, low to fine grey 31s
to 35x,
grainy white 45s to 493, yellow ditto 32s to 33s 6J,
and brown 30s to 31s 6d per cwt.
FonEmx.—To.ay exporters were desirous to operate in
foreign Sugar, and the rates paid were 6d per cwt above
those of last week. Several parcels of yellow Savannah
d
were sold, duty paid at from 34s 6d to 39s for common to
fine.

EAST INDIA,—This afternoon Madras Sugar realised an
advance of 6el per cwt. At auction, 3,700 bags, &c., sold,
low to good soft yellow at 26s to 27s Gd, brown :24s to 25s
6d, and low 22s 6d to 23s 6d. For Bengal the demand
was brisk, and the advance was 6d to ls. The
parcels at auction were all sold, and amounted to 'l,BOO bags,
fine white Benares realised 36s to 37s 65, good 34u 61 to 35s
Gd, low to middling 32s 6d to 345, damp and washed 31s to
365, good gsainy yellow 36s to 37s 6d, middling to good like
Mauritius 30s to a3s 6d, soft brown 21s to 255, yellow ditto
26s to 27s 6d, and greyish yellow 31s to 32s 6d per cwt.
COFFEE.—The demand continues active for :Plantation
Ceylon, and the rates obtained to-day were is per cwt
above those of Friday. At auction 260 casks 26 boxes
64 bags were sold, low middling to middlinp; went at
54s to 56s 6d, fine fine ordinary 50s to 535, 'other sorts
48s to 493 6d, triage 42s to 455, and very ordinary
unclean Coffee 41s. Of Costa Rica 25 bags.; and 198
cases were taken in above the value of fine fine or-
dinary at 50s; but 50 cases Tellicherry sold at 45a. for good
ordinary unclean. On the part of holders of Native Ceylon
there is firmness, and they will not sell good ordinary under
41s per cwt. For Mocha there were few buyers, but Brazil
is nut wanted at former terms, and with few sellers.
TEA.—To day the demand for Tea was active, and prices
were rather above those of yesterday. One firna has old
12,000 chests. There are now' free sellers of good oi:d Congou
under 5d for sound.
Monasszs.—A fair demand exists for West India, Barba-
does, and Antigua, at 13s to 135 6d, other kinds 12$ to 12s
6d. Some parcels of Bengal and Mauritius have been sold
at lis to Ils 6d ; Cuba and Porto Rico at 13s to 13s 65.
Honey good to fine Jamaica 48s to 51s, and low to mid 385
to 46e. Several parcels of Tamarinds have been disposed
of, East India at 05 to 12e, and West India 24s to 34s per

cwt.
SPIRITS. Only small sales have been made in East
India Rum, vet under is 4d proof there are not sellers
at present. Leeward Island is held for is 5d to
Is 514 d. For Demerara rates remain low, and rule at
is lldto2s 3d for 30 to 42 over proofr Jamaica Sellers
are willing to accept for choice marks 35 to 38 over
proof 3s 4d to 4s, tine ditto 2s 10d to 33 3d, good mid to
good 32 to 34 over 2s 4d to 2s 10d, mid 25 to 25 3d, and low
`A to 30 over is 104 to Is 11d. Brandy—The value of Cog-
nac best Brands of thevintago of 1851 is 4s Id to 4s 3d, 1850
dittto 4s 4d to 4s 6d, 1849 ditto 4s 9d to 4s Ild, 1848 ditto
Ss 3d to 5s sd, older 53 64 to 6s 6d, low to mid 2s 4d to 4s,
and Bordeaux is lld to 2s ld per gallon. In the British
Spirit trade much dulness yet prevails, and there are sellers
at Os 8d to Os 9d net cash : Gin 22 under 8s 6d, 17 ditto, 9s ;
Geneva is 104 to is 11d, and fine 2s ld to 2s 4d per gallon.
CASSIA LIGNEA is rather cheaper, and is little wanted.
To-day at auction 63 cs were sold; pile one at I2os, ditto
two 114 s to 115 s, ditto three 110 s, mouldy 107 s, coarse and
black 975.

MACE is still wanted, and rates keep fi4m. To-day at
auction 10 cases damaged sold at is 4d to rs 9d per lb, and
6 jrs West India Cayanne Pepper at Is 9d to Is Ild.
GiNuEu..—There was a better demand to day, and at auc-
tion 229 bags of African sold at 455, and damaged 24s 6d,
there are very lull rates.

TAPIOCA. —At aucticn 24 brls Bahia sold at lid for good.
RlCE.—East India is not offered under previous terms.
The value of Bengal good to fine white is 93 9d to 103 6d,
mid to good mid 93 to 9s 6d, broken 8s 3d to 8s 9d, Cargo Bs,
Madras pinkey 8s to 8s 6d, Coringa grain 8s 6d to 9s, white
Java 9s to Ils 6d, pearl Barley and Arracan 8s 6d
to 9s. The auction 870 bgs Moulmein went at Os to 9s 6d
for common white, and 6s 6d to 7s for siftings. Cleaned is
rather more in request; low to fine Patna at Ils to 16s,
Carolina 213 to 275. Sago small pearl is offered at 14s to 17s,
large and medium 21a to 243, and common at 103 to 18s.
Sago Flour 14s to 14s 6d, and Farinal 16s to 17s. Tapioca
1 Yyd to 4%d. Arrowroot finds a more ready sale ; St.
Vincent's at 3d to 4d, Bermuda is ld, East India 83/4d to
934 d per lb.
SALTPETRE.—To-day full rates were demanded for Salt-
petre; not more doing. Of 1,166 bags Calcutta at auction
rather more than half sold; 914 per cent at 275, 12 to 12%
ditto 26s 6d, and not refracted 23s 6d to 25s per cwt.
TALLow.—The value of old P.Y.C. is 35s 3d to 35s sd,
and new 35s Vd to 365. There has not been much done for
delivery, still the prices demanded are 37s 3d to 37a 6d for
the last three months of the year. Home
melted is in fair request, but can be obtained
at 353 6d to 36s nett cash. Other sorts of
Tallow realized an advance; at auction 150 casks Australian
were mostly sold, Beef at 33s to 34s 3d; Mutton 35s 9d;
220 casks South American 33s 6d to 35s 9d; 25 casks Bel-
gium melted 35s 3d, and 111 casks Vegetable Tallow Z 63 to
383 6d per cwt. For auction 1,200 packages Tallow are
declared.
OILS.—A fair demand exists for Cod at 341 to 34/10a per
ton. Seal is firm, pale at 301 103 to 301 15s, and other sorts
291 to 301. Southern is wanted at 321 to 341. Sperm 85l to
881. Headmatter 901 to 921. Olive stock is on the increase.
Gallipoli at 42/ lOs to 434 and other sorts 401 to 421. In
Cocoa Nut Oil several contracts have been concluded; Co-
chin at 345 6d to 365, Sydney at 31s to 325, and Ceylon 33s
to 355. Palm met with a fair demand; good and fine
realized 25s 6d to 26s 6d. Linseed Oil is in much better
request; there are not sellers under 26s on the spot. Prices
are not better for Rape Oil yet man arcels have been
sold ; brown at 28s 6d to 293, pale 303, Wtl refined Foreign
30s 6d to 31s. Lard Oil is held for 42s to 51s. Ground Nut
sells very slowly at 301 per tun. At auction 50 hhds of East
India Fish Oils at 251 5s to 271 lOs per tun.

COURSE OF EXCH.,
•••••••••• 12 %
Ditto, three months .• 12 2
Rotterdam •••• •• •• 12 2
Antwerp •••••••• •• •• •• 25 623¢
Bflussels •••• •• •• •• •• 25 65
nozabur4h 13 Ilk
parts, 3 days'iught .... 25 4231,
Ditto, 3 months .... 25 60
Marseilles •••••••• •• •• 25 60
Bourdeaux.. .
Frankf• orton Maine.... 122%
Berlin • • .. • •
Vanua, effee. fib.. •• .. 12 40
Trieste, 12 45
Petersbargh,Sll.lible.. 37%
Madrid •• .. ~...... 49%
Cadiz •• •..• •• •• 497,3
Barcelona • • •• •• •• .• ••
fleville.• •• •• .• •• •• •• ••

kNGE.-(THIS DAY—.)
30 80
Leghorn
Genoa ....•• 25 0

(Milan .. e• •• •• •• • 00000

Venice................
Naples •• •• " "3/3
Palermo, peroz ........ 122
Messina 122
Lisbon 63%
0p0rt0.... • • ........ ••
Rie Janeiro .. •..... • •
--

lEnenos Ayres •• ••.. ..
New York,6odays'sight

Philadelphia .. • . -
41LIOLO OF nuLLioir• PER OZ.
Foreign Geld inbare.. f 3 17 9
Portugal Gold Coin •• 0 0 o
Spanish Doubloons .. 0 0 0
New Dollars •• 0 4 10%
Silver in bars •• •• •• •• 0 5 0

COURT CIRCULAR.
Her Majesty and his Royal Highness Prince Albert,
accompanied by his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales,
their Royal Highnesses the Princess Royal, Prince Al-
fred, the Princess Alice, and the Princess Helena, and
attended by the Hon. Eleanor Stanley, Lord Colville,
and Lieutenant-Colonel F. 11. Seymour, went at half-
past nine o'clock yesterday morning, to the Gallery of
Illustration in Regent-street, and inspected the moving
diorama illustrating
the campaigns of his Grace the
Duke of Wellington. Hor Majesty, Prince Albert, and
the Royal party returned to the Palace at 11 o'clock.
His Royal Highness Prince Albert rode out on horse.
back yesterday morning, attended by Lieutenant-Col.
F. H. Seymour.
The Qaeen and Prince Albert, attended by the Coun-
tess of .Desart' Lord Colville, and Lieutenant-Colonel F.
11. Seymour, went at three o'clock yesterday afternoon to
Claremont, to pay a visit to the Countess de Neuilly and
the French Royal Family, travelling from the Nine
Elms to the Eshor station of the London and South-
Western Railway, and returning to town by the same.
Her Majesty and his Royal Highness Prince Albert,
with the Prince of Wales, the Princess Royal, Prince
Alfred, and the Princess Alice, attended by the Countess
of Desart, Earl Talbot, Lord Colville, and Lieutenant-
Colonel F. H. Seymour, honoured the Princess's Theatre
with their presence last evening.
Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, attended
by Baroness de Speth, went to Claremont yesterday, to
pay a visit of congratulation to the Countess de Neuilly,
en the return of her natal day.
Her Royal Highness the Dachess of Kent, attended.
by Lady Fanny Howard, honoured the performance of
the French Plays with her presence last evening.
A deputation from Burnham, consisting. of Mr. Allen
and Mr. Pooles (introduced by Mr.
W. Miles, M.P.) had
an interview with Lord John Manners, at the Office of
,
Public Works and Buildings, Whitehall-place, yesterday,
in reference to the Provisional Order of the General
Board of Health, applying the Public Health Act to
Burnham.
The Marquis of Salisbury bad an interview with Mr.
Secretary Whipule yi-stertia), of t! e II .111,
count Hardinge had also an interview with the Right
Lion. Gentleman.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 26._

BILL.-ADJOURNED:DELIATE.

(Continued from our Fourth Edition of yesterday.)
Colon-1 LINDSAY said the best evidence of the ne-
cessity of en augmentation of our defensive force was
to be found in the two Militia Bills proposed by two

separate Governments. Having corrected some errors
into which some previous speakers had fallen with re-
gard to the amount of effective force at the disposal of
this country, the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman said he
was decidedly opposed to adding to our home forces by
recalling troops from our colonies. The question of
protecting our colonies ought to be considered abstract-
edly, and quite apart from any plan for forming a
hesr.) As a soldier, of course, he
should prefer 20,000 regularly disciplined men to 80,000
milithmen; but then he wanted troops for our gar-
risons. Surely, if they were to take the course of in-
creasing the standing army, 8,000 men would not be
enough to add to it. Lass than 20,000 men increase

would not be &ufficient to put the country in a proper
state of defence. Well, then, they should next con-
sider the expense of their standing army. The total

number of men voted for the standing army was

101,837. For the purpose of ascertaining the expense
of such army let them deduct the officers' who cost the
country nothing except their pay.—(A laugh.) The
number of non-commissioned officers and men would
then stand stand 97,418. The total pay of these men
amounted to 1,866,2574; their clothing was 287,3791.—
total, 2,153,6361. Now, the pay and clothing of 20,000
additional men .in this proportion would amount to
472,641/. The money required to raise these men,
being 51. for each, would amount to 100,060/.—total,
572,6411. But where were they to put these 20,000
men ?—(Hear, hear.) They muse provide new barracks
for them, and also devote is large sum for good-conduct
money, for hospital accommodation, for the movement of
troops, for coals, candles, great coats, and for the sub-
sequent incomes to the pensioners. A sum of 65,0001. or
70,0001. must then bo added to the expenditure. Much
had been said in reference to the volunteer system. From
what they had lately seen of the enthusiasm of the
people, ho believed that in the event of danger they
would find plenty of volunteers, but he was afraid they
never could be relied on as an efficient body. The
Duke of Wellington was opposed to the volunteer
system for the defence of the country. In 1811, in
one of his dispatches to Lord W. Bentinck, that illus-
trious man wrote to this effect :—" The enthusiasm of
the people is very great, bat I would never trust any-
thing to the enthusiasm of the people." Now every
objection that had been urged against the Bill before
the House would apply equally to the Bill of the Noble
Lord the Member for London.—(Hear, hear.) One of
the objections of the Noble Lord to the measure was
that the bounties would induce a great number of bad
characters to join the militia. He (Colonel Lindsay)
was of opinion that it might; but they would probably
get a much larger number of bad characters by the adop-
tion of the substitute system.—(Hear, hear.) He
thought it was objectionable to pay the whole of the
bounty money at once ; but if they distributed it over
a certain period of time they would be more likely to se-
cure proper steady men. These men might be drilled
by good sergeants at such periods of the day as would
not interfere with their ordinary occupations. He would
also suggest the propriety of drilling them by companies
and never by battalions. Ile would support the second
reading of the Bill.
Mr. CARD WELL thought it was their duty to sup-
port the second reading of the Bill. Under any circum-
stances, when the Government asked th© House to con-
sider a measure which they declared to be necessary in
order to preserve their shores from invasion, they would
be undertaking a solemn responsibility if they offered any
opposition to it. How much greater would that respon-
sibility be on this occasion, when they considered that
there had been so greet a concurrence of opinion between
the present and the preceding Governmeut as to the ne-
cessity of examining their national defences carefully, in
order to the placing them in the position in which the
people of this great empire had a right to expect that
they should be placed. It had been proposed to increase
the standing army, and another proposal was that they
should withdraw a portion of their troops from their co-
lonial possessions in order to secure to the people here a
larger proportion of military protection. Now he thought
that this was a most reasonable proposition, and ho hoped
that it would meet with due attention in the proper
quarter. But that was a measure which could not be
accomplished in a day. It must occupy a considerable
period of time to accomplish it.—(Hear, hear.) When
they invested some of their colonies with considerable
powers of self-government, he thought it but fair that
they should be required to provide for their own military
protection, and thereby save this country from paying for
it. But these were all reasons why they should go into
the consideration of this Bill. They were rant by an
argument—and there is certainly a general impression
prevailing ont of doors—that they were about subjecting
this country to a system of forced conscription to be
carried on by the instrumentality of the ballot. He did
not think after so many years of peace that they would
ever succeed in carrying such a system into effect. In
Mr. Norman's able pamphlet, in which ho reviews the
burdens of this country compared with others, the
writer says—" France is ground down by a system of
military conscription which must be regarded as a large
and unascertained pecuniary tax. England, however,
is totally free from a military conscription." He (Mr.
Cardwell) understood that it was intended to work
this measure by a system of voluntary enlistment;
and the probability of a forced conscription was
to be the last resort, which it was not intended to
carry into operation. Whatever this country might
be disposed to submit to under the severe exigency
of immediate danger, he was of opinion that
there was So possibility in times of peace of inducing the
people to submit to anything like forced conscription.—
(Hear, hear.) What was the step they were now about
to take ? Surely they were bound to consider how the
law at present stood. The 42d George 111., is. 90, was
an enduring law. It stands upon the statute-book, and
was in permanent operation. For nearly twenty years
they had annually dealt with it by passing a law sus-
pending its operation for twelve months; and within
that law they had left a power which might be exercised
by an Order in Council to suspend the suspending law,
and to revive the enduring law. If, then, they defeated
this Bill upon tho second reading, the House of Commons
would find itself placed in this predicament : the Mi-
nister would say, " I told you, upon my.responsibility,
that this kingdom is not safe from foreign invasion. My
predecessor has told you the same thing.—(Hear, hear.)
You, therefore, cannot dispute it. You have, however,
refused to go with me into an inquiry into the details
of a Militia Bill I have proposed in order to remedy
this evil. If you thought that my mitigatory clauses
wore not strong enough, in the Committee upon my
Bill youens might, if you wished, have moved such
alterati
as you thought proper, but instead of
your doing so you rejected my
Bill altogether
.
upon the second reading. I shall not, therefore, ask you
for au annual suspension Bill, because I do not think
that our shores are safe from foreign invasion. I shall
put in operation the statute of George 111.. and I shall
proceed by compulsory conscription through the means
of the ballot. If your constituencies do not like such a
proceeding I cannot help it. The responsibility rests
wigs you for rejecting my Militia Bill. I, therefore, will
not hold myself responsible for the adoption of the other
alternative into which you yourselves have driven me."
__(Dear, hear.) He said then that out of respect to
the Crown, acting upon the advice of successive Cabi-
nots—out of respect to the safety and independence of the
country, and also by that jealousy of compulsory con-
scription, they were bound to adopt the second reading
of this Bill.—(Hear, bear.) If they were actuated by
this spirit they might be able to establish a mode by
which preliminary arrangements could be made for the
proper organization of a militia, and at the same time
guard against the danger of compulsory conscription.
They would thus be placing the Minister in a state that
would compel him to be answerable for the safety of the
country. Under such circumstances he could not recon-
cile it with his conscience to do otherwise than vote for
the second reading of this Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CHAPLIN reminded the House of the necessity
of affording every facility for the transport of troops
from one end of the country to the other. The Presi-
dent of France and his Government were taking the
most effectual measures for the completion of such rail-
way communication, by branch lines from Rouen to
Caen, and from thence to Cherbourg. Although a Bill
had been passed in 1848 for a line of railway from Sa-
lisbury to Exeter, in consequence of several untoward
circumstances that had subsequently occurred, it was
never carried out. If the Government would but con-
sent to advance 550,0001. at 3 per cent. interest, for
thirty years, he pledged himself to place such unques-
tionable security in the hands of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer as would satisfy
him of its validity.—(A laugh.)
Admiral BERKELEY said it was generally agreed
upon that the defences of the country were not in a
satisfactory state. The Noble Lord the Member
for Tiverton (Lord Palmerston) said that there
were two measures open to the House to adopt :
one was an increase of the standing army—
the other was the calling out of the militia.
Bat he was rather surprised to find it never struck the
Noble Lord that there was another plan which might be
resorted to--namely, a force to be raised by volunteers.
This might be done at one-half the expense pf either of
the other plans, and would prove much more effective
for the object they had in view. The Noble Lord spoke
of the French being enabled to raise 50,000 or 60,000
men in Cherbourg, but he did not tell the House how
these men were to be transported across the Channel.
Now there were, no doubt, a great many difficulties in
the way of increasing the defences of the country.
Every Gentleman who had spoken on the subject ap-
peared to have a favourite nostrum of his own to pro-
pose. An Hon. Gentleman connected with the railway
interest of the country had
,just proposed his nostrum,
which he, no doubt, thought the most valuable that they
had as yet considered. Nothing was more ridiculous
than to magnify the resources at our command. It
was quite AT absurd as the panic that had been lately
thrown over the country. The proposition he was
about to submit was ono that would not cost the
country 200,0001. He would only ask the House to vote
for the navy 4,000 men and 1,000 boys. By givingthat
number, in addition to what the Admiralty had at pre-
sent, he would undertake to say that they would have a
fleet of 30 steamers in the Channel, none of which would
be under 900 or 1,000 tons burden, armed with the
most valuable guns fore and aft; and six other steamers
of a larger class. These would present a formidable
force before which he would defy any
enemy to stand.
He would tell the Noble Lord that it would take 50 or 60
vessels to embark those men ho spoke of as being ready
for action at Cherbourg, and it would take as many
more vessels as he proposed to equip to protect them in
the Channel. They should recollect they o•ere not
, talkine of the e•iren-inn 0:;—, rioce of war, but they weirs
' Ito cuobidee now tn.' could bast guard 11,;aii.s a 3a:pri.o
and an attempt to invade our shores while they were
undefended. Comequensl7l the ettelW InUst be

by steamers, and by nothing else. The enemy must
get together 90 or 100 steamers be!ore they dared io
venture across the Channel. With such a fhTt as

he proposed there was no British officer fit for his situa-
tion who would not be able to destroy the force of the
enemy before it could effect a landing upon the English
shores. He should like to see them attempt to disem-
bark upon our shores in the face of such a 'force.—
(Hear, hear.) Firmly and honestly he was convinced
that if they would place such a force ea he had describd
in the hands of the Admiralty, they need not fear I).hy
surprise, nor even that the coast would be invaded.
That force ho wished to see kept always at hand, and
that no Government should be permitted to leave the
country without it. Do that, and the desired end would
be attained at a much cheaper rate than it could be by
the establishment of the militia, and at a cheaper rate
than any force they could hope to raise by the present
Bill. Having said this much, it was now his duty to de-
clare that he should vote against the measure before the
House. In doing so, however, he knew he should be
taunted by the Hon. Gentleman opposite that he had voted
for the Bill of the Noble Lord late at the head of die Go-
.

vcrnment.—(Hear, and a laugh.) But circumstances were
now changed—(An ironical cheer)—and so changed that
he believed lion. Members opposite would be inclined to
admit them as a valid argument. Hon. Members of the

Government said that, notwithstanding what their prin-
ciples might be, they would abide by the decision of
the country at the approaching elections. Up to the
period when the Noble Lord's Bill met with the fate it
did at the hands of this House ho wee not aware of any
certainty of his own constituents who had presented
petitions against the Bill. But; since the measure of
her Majesty's present Ministers bad been under consi-
deration, the table of the House had been nightly
covered with petitions against it, and his own constitu-
ents alone had presented no less than eight. In op-
posing the Bill, therefore, he was only following the
example of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, and bowing to
the will of the country.—(Hear, hear. and laughter.) In
conclusion, the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman assured
the Government that, if they would endeavour to per-
suade the House that the plan ho had suggested was
the really national, constitutional, most proper, and
wisest mode of raising a force to defend the Channel,
they might'rely upon having his support in the task of
carrying it into effect.
The Hon. A. DUNCOMBE said that as he chanced to

be the only member of the Board of Admiralty a' that
moment in the House, he had to ask the indulgence of
the House while he addressed to it a few observations
upon the present Bill. It was admitted on all hands that
the defences of the country were not in either a satisfac-
tory or safe state—indeed, they had had that admission
on Friday night from the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell),
though strangely enough, the Noble Lord adduced the
fact as a reason for not supportine the Bill.—(Hear,
hear, and a laugh.) It appeared to him (Captain Dun-
combo), therefore, that the Noble Lerd when in power,
had proposed and supported a Militia Bill from a sense
of duty; but that he now opposed it for the sake of
party.—(Cheers.) Still, however that might be, he
could have wished that the Noble Lord—powerful as
he was both in this House and the country—had not,
or the moment, at all events, obtruded party principles
into the consideration of a measure like this, but have
left it to be calmly and dispassionately considered in
Committee.—(Hear, hear.) Ho bAlieved that by fol-
lowing the two pilot balloons, which the Noble Lord
sent up in the early part of Friday evening, he would
soon find himself in shoal water.—(Hear, hear.) And
he was sorry to observe that the Gallant Admiral was
going to shape his course in the same manner; for sure
he was that no person would be less anxious to get into
shoal water than he.—(Cheers.) Many persons said thoy
had a right to look to the navy to protect our shores,
and that before an invading force had an opportunity of
landing, the navy should bo held responsible for making
mincemeat of them.—(Hear, hear.) To this he was
quite inclined to sow, provided we had at the present
moment a powerful and efficient navy at our disposal.
That our navy was efficient, he admuted ; but that it
could efficiently perform all the duties which were re-
quired of it in protecting our commerce and impressing
piracy in various parts of the world, and at the same
time afford a powerful and efficient defence for the
country—that he was not prepared to admit.—(Hear,
hear.) Neither could he subscribe to the doctrine put
forward by the Gallant Admiral on a recent occasion,
with reference to the possibility of lining the Channel
with powerful war-steamers at signal distances from
one another. But even admitting that we could
find the vessels, he (Captain Duncombo) doubted
very much if they could find the men.—(Hear, hear.)
He regretted very much that the Gallant Admiral, who
had been so recently connected with the naval affairs of
the country, had not left as a legacy to his successors in
office the 4,000 men and the 1,000 boys of whom he had
spoken, instead of that crude and ill-digested measure, a
naval reserve; for he (Captain Duncumbe) foresaw
great difficulty in carrying out the one, but none in car-
rying out the other. Having made these remarks, he
had only further to say, that however much they might
prefer having a large, a powerful, and efficient navy at
their call, he believed that, in the present temper of the
country, they could get a greater amount of force at a
less expense by adopting the present Militia Bill.
Mr. al. MILNES thought it the duty of every Hon.
Member to give the Bill a fair consideration, however
unpopular it might be asserted to be out of doors, and he
could not conceive how any Hon. Member who had
deemed it his duty to support a similar measure when
introduced by the late Government, could refuse to give
his assent to the principle of the present Bill.—(Hear,
hear.) In principle the two Bills were alike, and in
matter of detail the present had, in his opinion, the
advantage of the late Bill.—(Hear, hear.) The Bill
of the Noble Lord was more stringent, more likely to
create discomfort iu the people. Ile did not support
the Militia Bill because he thought there was danger of
invasion. A Militia was not a force likely to repel suc-
cessfully such an invasion.—(Hear, hear.) The reasons
for establishing a militia were of a larger and deeper
nature. The progress made in Europe since 1815, when
peace was established, had tended by no means to in-
crease the security of this country. He found that all
those points on which England was likely to come to
open controversy and disputes with foreign powers had
increased rather than diminished. Ho found that up to
a very late period there had been a continued tendency
to the maintenance of peace; but the extravagant hopes
of the Liberal parties had bred a reaction, and the con-
sequence now was the establishment of despotic Govern-
ments throughout the whole of Europe. The tendency
of those Governments must essentially and necessarily
be—hostility to England. They could not exist in
prosperity without displaying (and perhaps exercising)
that hostility. The prospects of this country, in
its relations to foreign powers, could not, there-
fore, be considered satisfactory; and the House was acting
wisely to lay the ground by preparations which were
neither expensive, nor interfered too greatly with the
time and labour of the people, for each a permanent
force as might act when necessary as a military reserve,
and at the same time in some degree keep up in the
minds of the people the daily consciousness that they
might be called upon to risk their lives in defence of
their homes and country. A militia force of 80,000
would prove more efficient than an addition of 8,000 men
to the regular army. The first expense would undoubt-
edly be great, but would ultimately be much decreased.
He thought that there was no reason why the youth of
the country, especially in the manufacturing districts,
should not be military disciplined and organised, and
prove as orderly when under arms and afterwards as the
army or the yeomanry.—(hear, hear.) Such diacipline
would, in his opinion, leave them better than it
them.—(Hear.) There were some inconsistencies in the
Bill, to
Bill, but the principle of the Bill ought not therefore
what
be opposed. Experience and practice would show.
modifications were necessary. He should not give his
found
vote in favour of the second reading.
Mr. BERNAL contended that it
had voted
argument to say, that because Hon. Members eto be brought
to allow the Bill of the late Governmenu
ht to vote for
in and read a first time, therefore thley.
w—a(sfinehoatrra: consistent
the second reading of the present Bil
free to confess that he did not feel
fromo
it. And that
himself ge
bound o one,
nd toh
sup was
portor d the
he measure
member
forwh iciahonwdaosn.intyroadruced by the Noble
Let
jhuasttilfife
dt this
hear Mr. Cardwell produce
was sorry to
he hesitated not to declare at once.—(Hewarh,ahtehaer.)migHhet
call an argument in terrorem,
Bill were rejected the Government
when
whoeul d said,
i
• putting
coming down and proposing the continuance of the
existing enactments relative to the militia, and
country. He (Kr. Bernal) thought that an
them in force, and instituting the ballot throughout the y
Govern-
ment would pause before it resolved upon incurring the
responsibility of taking such a step as that.—(Hear.)
What were the arguments which were produced in favour
of the principles of a Militia Bill? That of the Hon.
Member for Pomfret (Mr. Milnes) was, that the whole
of the Governments of Europe were combined against
us. Now was this, ho asked, an illusion or a romance?
(Hear, hear.) He, for one, was inclined to think it was
both—(Cheers)—for scarcely a fortnight had elapsed
since assurances were given to this House that the most
friendly spirit and the most amicable relations existed
between the Governments of Continental states and the
Government of this country.—(Bear, hear.) Was that
true, or was it not? If it were true, what then became
of this argument for the establishment and maintenance
of a body of 80,000 militia men?—(Cheers from the
Radical benches.) Further, he would appeal to those
Hon. Members who were acquainted with the professional
part of the subject, whether it was possible that in 18 or
21 days the men could be trained to manceavre in com-
panies,ler or in fact to do anything more than to shoulder
wasoud a
Then arms, and go through the goose step. To hiaal.
manifest delusion to suppose that they could. who
t
were the men with whom they proposed to fill the ranks
of their militia? Did they suppose that they were
men of high, refined, and honourable sentiment 7
Whatever the gallantry of the soldier,
h (Mr. Bernal)
which tempted a man
one of the principal arguments
other part of
feared that the argumentum ad crumenam was usually
Members think that, with a
the world. Did MII4
able to et a description of men
to serve as a soldier either here or in any
61. bounty, they would be
the second year after they
d the fact, and was very much
had enlisted? He doubted
d to have recourse to a
e
who would fall into rank in
afraid that they might be
.o. obliged
bounty to a man who did not make his appearance should
statutary enactment, providing that. the 61. paid as
be recovered as a debt in one of her Maj,sty's courts of
law.—(A laugh.) If we came to the chance of an ac-
tual invasion, he believed that we should want neither
bounties nor compulsion in the shape of a conscription to
obtain the necessary force; but he did not think that the
levy of 80,000 men, as proposed either by the Bill of
the late or that of, the precont Government, would be a
safeguard against such an event. In the last war there
was a force which lined our coast, and whatever objec-
tions were raised to that force, he freely confessed that
it was a useful force in many respects. He alluded to
tie' TB It) the r,s., .;,„:00r
flivi Rimed ,t low; pike to be nsekl doronliilig
their guns, euch a hybrid force as that might in case of
danger be spread along the coast, and act in its dpfeuce

with very great efficiency. But as to the principle of
this Bill, he for one felt that he was not justified in sup-
porting it, because he opposed the principle of raising,
whether voluntarily cr by compulsion, 80,000 militiamen
at this particular juncture.—(Hear.)
Mr. I)EEDES said the Hoe. Member who last spoke
had told the House that he did not for a moment doubt
that it an invasion of this country took place there
would be men enough found ready, willing, and able to
defend its shores. He (Hr. Deecles) bad an equal confis
deuce with the Hon. Gentleman in the readiness, wile
fineness, and gallantry of his countrymen; but he be'
every reason to believe, and history confirmed the belief,
that those good qualities which they possessed would be
made more valuable it they bad the advantage of sone
military training and discipline.—(hear, bear.) 011,e,
reason why he would impress upon the House the set
vantage of some preparation being made was that if tti
were understood that the country were prepared,it tvote'
be a great step puled towards preventing the P°l3ici
bility of en invasion.—Bear, hear.) Ile observe,
that the tone of the debate this evening had differete,
very materially from that of Friday nigh
Ou Friday the objections to the measure °
the Government were very varied is their character'
generally mesh in their matter, and did not present eel
real or substantial opposition to the principle of the B 1
In the first place hed the Hon. and Gallant Genera
they
(Sir De Llte tce Evans) telling the House that he baticfi-t
o, awn to the principle of the Bill; that he admit" .ve.
was necessary to do something with the view of plat;
the country into a proper state of defence; but thee, ot
added, tie (lid not thick the measure of the Governe2;lo
would accomplish tbat object. With respect to what
been said as to the number of petitions presented seine _
n the measure, they sould remember that the questles
touched tue pocket of John Bull, and the argurnentuo
pocket—(Laughter)--was one on which they slit,
not always implicitly rely; for on such point the Ent
were likely to take the most short-sighted view of till'oe
true interests. One word as to the speech of the :bent
Gentleman who bad seconded the amendment e he
Rich.) That lion. Gentleman at first relied for to,
defence of the country on a reserve force effiPeeett
sioners, then he shifted his reliance to the
and subsequently to the rural police. IridePeeeentee
of the inconsistency of such a mode of argument:nee
Hon. Gentleman ought to have remembered that ill, "—tee
of difficulty the rural police would be required try is
preservation of peace and the protection of proPelltee
the rural districts. With respect to the character. e„seie
men for a militia force, he knew of no method be' ;else'
the ballot box, by which the Noble Lord would 0— e.
none but the most eligible characters and inesrereos
ceptionable men; and he had heard with tee eenthe
surprise the Noble Lord express his opposition of the
present measure, for there was not one wore ie
Noble Lora's speech on Friday night against t"eeteere
that would not apply with equal force to thelt
proposed by the Noble Lord before leaving °liable
was not for him to impugn the motives of the e tee'
Lord; it would be for the country to decide UP teat
conduct of the Noble Lord is the matter when °e,too),
side of the House and on the other (the OPP°s„l",,sted
Something, however, ought to be done, and be for the
that in the conflict of opinion some one measure. ere'
ere'
proper defence of the country, which was so le la
tively called for, would not be lost. As to the bee were
which that defence ought to be provided for, if w, of
to give an opinion, it would be in favour of the Pge
the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman (Colonel Beid)e Oce
trusted, however, that if the Bill c ere rejected insiders.veoru of h
notnrnenttewodublideuceof
throwthe
up altogether the ceeseseeat
ti
country. He woult,„l3l4clre
their encouraging the formation of volunteer
throughout the United Kingdom and Ireland. woe
Mr. M. GIBSON said that the measure Wee re„-eitl
as one of no ordinary importance in the maetlface; sib
districts; cud before speaking en the merits of !e 001
he wished to call the attention of the Attorney's °,4 le
to the manner in which the measure was presenlertette
the House. In the 28th clause he found that all Pet() ate
chosen to serve under the Bill were to be subjecteof
provisions of the 3d of Geo. 111., c. 90, and of olelic of
Acts amending that Act. But how were the e 11,4000
Members of Parliament to carry in their minds oeto 00
innumerable provisions of Acts, or parts of Act:Vole+
to know the scope of the measure they were nofteeet
ing? Were all those provisions referred to salt ifs
onethe coitretuhmossetaAnceetse_ofththee42pdreosefn
e
one Act of Parliament.
executionathmebiri ps re ot et
to be tbe
allt would tendthe geraesaeitilnycot °;.4 dieg:
setting
provisions
flsotrbt hlevitsaid t r provisionseitspec tw
at
s tot time?
Georget
bee were :0103cal:oit
ieftaofiroetubrAiecel
comprised in one Act. He
thorry-General would explain why the practieetolidal'
had begun to be very generally adopted; efereenyol?
leg Acts of Parliament had been departed "e ego, n
this very point Mr. Baron Parke, a short dine v COY
the case of "Hart v. the Eastern Union Railtiest%ulti it
patty," observed that "there was no small d te'of ober,
constructing Acts made up from different Part:ay no,,t,'
Acts, which were partly repealed and PII;Of 1`;„-e
That was the opinion of Baron Parke;. otreete
Learned Judge experienced a difficulty leee,f°ficelitte,"o
such Acts of Parliament, what must be there
s
Members of Parliament and the general nieriloicee''
industrial community? That he took as a Pnr.fii Theio
and he thought valid objection to the .e1.11;oolt asL
ougt o take Bille preset Bill, and eal°- tied.e
future time with a meren likely to be elltreoe the
had given notice of an amendment to Peati,otte°tee
measure to another Parliament. which be ere at "g 0
reasonable proposition, seeing that they eddy 0'9";
close of the present Parliament, and that a oee crof,
lution had been announced by the Minister "
ofotres woe'
For when it was proposed to resuscitate 1 toy, th?:
had been discontinued for nearly half a t 3.131,000
should have the advantage of a genera'
palest' Pot
fore deciding upon it, so that they I,doneo
the satisfaction of knowing that whatever w 0t of to
the matter in another Parliament had the onstebe olat to
c untry. The manner of tbeir proceeding 0000
at present was most unconstitutional. if tbek 111°00,-
be governed according to public opinion---"eloitei
ld
opinion of the intelligent portion of the cocain oteeert
a Noble Lord in another place expressed it--w to a litebo
be their objection to deferring the WOO°, 0p00;10
Parliament? Did they wish to steal a 11ov:1'0200(o
country, fearing that Members would be re o.theti
• If b
Parliament pledging to vote against it lore foe
conduct deserved the utmost reprobation. ''00111.4
no doubt been a panic; but, like most panicet erefecepe
athpeur
objectpe in
nt
vhiaedw a
• arnddlynloawstedthlaotng ewnaosugjey
dying the
0.;
re,
unanimous opinion of eminent politicians as the
ewsvosusl d
currence of those distinguished individuals in r13_",..,,,at0:
aaphpeoatlierdat.o..nitiilsptlwee
cosily for sunnihlaasmosseecita,hsueyr
had no weight with him. In 1846 the Canoe%
Ministry proposedsaaggaaMiinnissititatniiatd:hßeapi
generalul
measure,
l pa
se meetingut
rt
fee
en essivola: mere
iee le 5
fe •001
and iaterleysopirtietsioe
uoi rti John Russell) brought in red
Bill after similar opposition the 14°7
usNiitsoithornlye
strance, Bill was also dropped; end strongi'bw
Lord went even further, for he reduced the • nt rj;
nioie
the regular army. The agreement, then, 01,eee eilete '0
liticians on the subject carried no weight ft 0f 031
ep 0
would appear, indeed, as if there was a draft ed
Bill in wditraisherPdetagP,t
Bill in some pigeon-hole in tee Home-office,
panic arose out came the Militia Bill; Lee feel bats
again to the pigeon-hole,
showed it displeasure, in went the Militia delOV
say would be the case with respect to the Prepood,ne
sure, which he felt convinced would not be l? Wool
the second reading, and so he would atiootiostee
If it were pressed, it and bile
against a storm of opposition in the countreley, /f,egbs
attempt to force such a measure upon the 03e-be freeelso
it would fail for want of co-opera e ion, wenw'ecitiegle°
withi the most dangerous consequences inn% otter!"
disaffection and discontent of the people. But
the viito
the panic which bad been so nicely got uPee,'ee.eteleits rep
sion had subsided, the Hon. Member for 11'6" Seed'
(Mr. Newdegats)Ntothefrortsi
get up, end, in the
style, talked of what he called the feelinge roe° rte
nation of a prince who rules in a Deighbourinfiteler.fete
and delivering himself in the most oracular i;igsiii/
ceeded to deal out to them the so:eetenar lbetee'
tabled in the Duke of Wellington's letter t the bed
a production that was much laughed at_t to '
But when Honourable Gentlemen epee he
of the Duke of Wellington's
they not themselves act upon that
sure
Or' 93
So far from doing so, they brought in a nos the het;
distinct from that which was contemplated bYboventle
of Wellington, who required a force ready at peed'
needed, and not the militia which they Prlci
had heard with regret the curacy ord (fen_toesteeice
advice, fificioel,
otiep
ston) speaking with painful ac of the bp *roe
of railways to Cherbourg and other porttra
r ;
ete
country to the water's edge, and put on boo bed 0 ;ye
troops could be conveyed from various Pa 100'0
at once, to be landed with the utmost bore e°„ro'
shores of this country. But those railways oke as ;too,
made; and though all that the Noble Lord 9P.vollf 0 ot
Liable. might be so, and was so, the queation eeesitieo
was it becoming or prudent in men in thee rote tareet
the Noble Lord and of Members of that Pee, toile° he
always imputing secret and unworthy deeigebei Pejo;
neighbouring friendly nation? Ought does ov
constantly dealing out those stupid intlee"ee, 0' ore
a neighbouring power for the Pore We hotter,
taining an increase of our own forces know eve °:
always assuming in this country that 'o3,g 000,teiferA.
how to govern France than the °"' teelneeeree
her inhabitants knew how to govern into force
It appeared to him that the less te'sel Oa ear
in the affairs of that country, or expatiateo 00,ere
of government, the better it would be for 11:10eleirole
((Palmerston)
But the best answer to the speech of tt Forade :;010r.
Lord ou the oewcaassiaonspwehecehn dheislinveorend.
Friendlstulib'oitihicetioPeot:olo
Ybe
House a motion on the suhjcct
for the West Riding (Mr. Cobden)
ito,errplerecateror,cs:i
tration. In that speech the Noble Lor. „ the 1011ip
practice of instituting comparisons - wee wore 1110
of France and this country, and disc ry de t
as to the continuacte of public tinge toteer
,twe
betweeed 011
France being prompted by hostile fees' poteoe'a
country, and condemned such suspicioll.s,fh seelwreseet
anti likely to lead to the hostilities win the Poe
be apprehended. What were the facts
_Lief Iho et pre;
ease? The Honourable and Gallant inoee,e, vetoes see tete
ment said there were 67,000 troops of ell 'cocityol"io
sent in the United Kingdom, exclusive oleesilettlet toe!
talions and other forces that would be OOO ebe
tb 0,0
of Amiens, war was inevitable, the g
eein try, env
emergency. But in 1803, when, in, the
ao leod`
land forces in the country at the oP cave eto
amounted to 66,574 men—infanl,l3ritisb pod tol
artillery. After Lord Wbitwortb, ear,, /3,11,
. h t 1
countret
in consequence returned to this e terotlg, wit"
sador, was insulted at Paris the seine Dllll' 1111'
ne et et ° mov uient cc tar do
•
was brought in and cpiekly passed td.
.leY ! fOr
',„ity
until
measure was truly ahown, the 09
pond on it, then, that whenever thenene9- th