The Sun.
London, England, 1864-05-07 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SAIITRDAY EVENING, MAY 7, 1864.

part of the Irish people was spontaneous or not? Until the
small German Powers had moved in the matter, there was
no enthusiasm felt for the Prince of Augustenburg in the
duchies; but of course when the German armies entered,
and drove out everybody favourable to Denmark, there was
wonderful unanimity on the part of those who remained for
the dominant side. (Oh.)
Mr. LAYARD said he would confine himself to answer-
ing the questions of his hon. friend, but ho would premise
that if the doctrine he had laid down—namely, that that
country was as populous now as she was at the time of
her dismemberment—were to prevail, it would be diffi-
cult to tell what the condition of Europe would become.
His hon. friend had not accurately quoted what he had sal:,
on a former occasion with regard to the Estates of Hejietein
and Schleswig, He had not on that occasion 'erononnted
any absolute opinion as to whether or net +.:ne Estates had
the power to discuss constitutional que`se.fons. What he had
said was, that it was supposed their
powers were confined to
se tho discussion of local questior . His hon. friend had also
imputed to him the asserti-on that the Diet had not objected
to the question of the succession ; but the fact was, that
when Earl Russell made his proposal in 1862, that proposal
was accepted by the Diet as a satisfactory arrangement.
With regard 'co the spontaneity of the movement in the
duchies, was manifest from the documents before him that
it had 'Steen brought about by German agents. What was
the 'testimony of Consul Renault on the point ? Consul
Psenault stated that he had never heard any sentiment ex-
pressed against the King of Denmark, but, on the contrary,
the people said that if he had the power he had the will to
make his people happy and contented; and with the ex-
ception of the large landed proprietors there were but few
people in the duchies desirous of a separation from Denmark,
(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Layard) maintained that the feel-
ing of the great majority of the people was in favour of Den-
mark ; although he would not deny that they had certain
grievances. Her Majesty's Government had always repre-
sented to Denmark that she had not fulfilled her promises,
but was it because Denmark had not fulfilled her promises
that this country should not take her part ? What he main-
tained was that Austria, Prussia, and Germany, having obe
tained all they had a right to ask before the war commenced,
for them to go to war undersuch circumstances was a glaring
and manifest injustice. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Grosvenor had
not been sent into the duchies to inquire as to the feelings of
the inhabitants. On the contrary, Mr. Buchanan had
warned her Majesty's Government against relying upon
the conclusions of that gentleman. As far as Mr. Grosvenor
was concerned, his conclusions were no evidence one way or
another. But, according to the information which had
reached him (Mr. Layard)—indeed, it was a matter of
notoriety—there was certainly no desire in Schleswig to
elect the Prince of Augustenburg, or to separate entirely
from Denmark. That was the impression of all who took
the trouble to inquire into the true facts of the case. He
thought it was desirable at that stage of the proceedings to
avoid entering into fresh matters, as well as everything that
might impede the restoration of peace; and for that reason
also, he should object to the production of the papers
moved for.
Lord R. CECIL said, before the house passed from the
question, he desired to enter his protest, Although the
enormous majority of that house sympathised with Denmark
in this struggle—(cheers)—members had thought it wiser
in the existing negotiations, not to impede whatever chance
existed for the restoration of peace by entering with un-
necessary vehemence into the discussions which were got
up. Bat he feared that reticence had been misunderstood
by the hon, member for Buckingham (Sir H.Yerney) and
the other partisans of Germany in that house, whom, how-
ever, they might count upon their fingers—(cheers)—but
who, by their skill in ingenuity, had contrived to give the
people out of doors a false and delusive impression that there
was a German party in the House of Commons. (Loud
cheers.) He would confine himself to trusting that no
one out of deers would entertain the impression that be-
cause the wild and chimerical statements of those gentle-
men were not contradicted, that therefore they were ad-
mitted. The discussion upon the subject could not be
taken until the negotiations were brought to a conclusion,
or without exposing to additional dangers those with whose
sufferings they most heartily sympathised. (Cheers.)
Mr. NE\VDEGATE rejoiced in the speech of the noble
lord, and expressed his conviction that, were it not for the
sea—on which England once had some power—the State of
Denmark would be swept out of the category of nations.
Sir H. VER.NEY denied that he had expressed any sym-
pathy with Austria or Prussia, but only with the inhabi-
tants of the duchies. (Oh, oh.)
The motion was then withdrawn.
UNDER-SECRETARIES INDEMNITY BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT SUPPLEMENTAL ACT.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
NAVAL AGENCY DISTRIBUTION,
This bill, as amended, was considered.
SUPPLY.
The report of supply was brougt,.t up and agreed to.
CHIEF RENTS, IIVe:,LA.N 1.) (STAMPS).
This bill passed throne' committee.
INTOXICATING LIQUORS (SALES ON SUNDAYS)
Mr. SOMES, in, moving for leave to bring in this bill,
said that the v‘tncipal objection to the measure last year
had been clfesing public-houses all day on Sunday. In the
present eneasure he proposed to give the people facilities for
obtaning their dinner and supper beer by allowing the
dblic-houses to be opened from Ito 2 o'clock, and from 8
to 9 o'clock in the evening. The bill, he said, was for the
benefit of working men and their families, many of whom
themselves prayed for this measure. Individually he
doubted whether the concession he now proposed would be
for their advantage. He me.:te them, however, in deference
to the expressed opinion of the house, on whom he left the
responsibility of acceeeing or rejecting the measure.
Mr. PEASE ss eonded the motion, reminding the house
that the chief :iifficalty which philanthropic and religious
ins:itations had to contend with was the drinking customs
of the ceuntry. lie hoped the house would agree to the
motion, for if they did they would find in committee that
the clauses were not so objectionable pith regard to private
rights as many hon gentlemen seemed to imagine.
Mr. ROEBUCK would not detain the house for many
minutes, for there were two things which compelled him to
be brief—one the lateness of the hour, and the other the
fact that the introduction of a bill wet supposed to be a mere
matter of courtesy, He had no financial hatred to this
measure; his only desire was to protect his countrymen in
the fair enjoyment of their rights and liberties. (Hear, hear.)
As for the question of courtesy, he begged the house to re-
collect that though the present was said to be a different bill
from that which was decided last year, it was in reality the
same. (Cries of "No, no," and cheers.) Hon. gentlemen
might cry " No, no," but before ho had done he would prove
" Yes, yes." (A laugh.) The ground of this bill was two-
fold. There was a body of people in this country who were
Sabbatarians ; there was also a body of teetotallers. These
two muddy streams had concentrated. (A laugh.) Running
side by side for a long time, they had at last united their
waters, and now they formed one foaming, muddy river,
which it was difficult to stem and very disagreeable to see.
[An Hon. Member—" And to smell.' Aye, and to smell.
(Laughter.) These two sets of people had joined their forces
on the present occasion. Why did he oppose them ? First
and foremost, because this was a law for the poor and not
for the rich. (Cheers.) A rich, well-to-do man could have
his own beer or wine in his own house, he could draw his
beer or uncork his wine when he chose, but that was not
the case with a poor man. (Hear, hear.) Parliament
began with fiscal regulations. It had put a tax upon malt,
and he had always voted with the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer on that subject, but he had always felt that he was
preventing the poor man having his own beer in his own
house and driving hint to the publichouse. (Hear, hear.)
He wished the house to understand that every man who
went into a publichouse was not a tippler. (Cheers.) The
poor man who was compelled to go to the publichouse was
like the gentleman who sent down his butler for his glass
of wine when he wanted it. (Hear, hear.) If the hon.
member for Hull and his friends were really in earnest—if
they were anything more than canting hypocrites—(laugh-
ter)—they would propose a law for the rich as well as the
poor. (Cheers.) Not only would they shut up every pub-
lichouse—not only would they shut up the Star and Garter
at Richmond, and the Trafalgar at Greenwich, but they
would also shut up every club in London. (Cheers.) Would
they dare to introduce a bill for that purpose ? If not, how
could they presume to say they were the friends of morality
and justice ? (Hear, hear.) He spat upon their paltry pre-
tence. (Cheers and laughter.) He had no hesitation in
saying that those who were endeavouring to bring in this
bill under the guise of being the protectors of morality were
merely carrying out their own individual views respecting
the enjoyments of others. (Hear, hoar.) "We are virtu-
ous," they exclaimed, " and therefore you shall have no
more cakes and ale." (Cheers.) The introduction of this
bill would create dissension throughout England. (Cries of
" No, no," and cheers.) " Yes, yes ;" it would create the
necessity on the part of those who thought as he did of
sifting the sentiments of the people of England, as they did
last year. The seconder of the motion had talked of repre-
senting a large constituency. He represented a still larger
constituency, and he opposed the bill, (Rear, hear.) Last
session he presented a petition signed by 20,000 people, and
when he wont down among his constituents during tho year
what occurred ? Several gentlemen came to him and said,
" Oh, this is a people's measure, and you must support it."
His reply was, "Prove that to me and I will yef e for the
bill." They had a meeting in the open air, and it was car-
ried against them by a majority of thousands. (Hear, hear.)
So much for this being a popular messuee. He represented
a set of hard working men who were confined to a smoky
town all the week, and, as he said to these gentlemen, if he
lived in Sheffield he should be very glad to get out on a
Sunday to breath a mouthful of fresh air. A working man
who had expended his week in hard labour was naturally
glad to get out of Sheffield for a few hours on Sunday, but
if the hon. gentleman's bill passed he would find the door
of every publichouse shut against him, The man was not
necessarily a tippler. What right had they to say to that
man that he should only have his luncheon at 1 o'clock,
and not at 3, if he liked it best then ? Publichouses in the
country were only open now from 1 to 3, and from 5 to 11.
What harm was there in that ? A working man in London
went out on Sunday for a few hours' recreation, and then
these sour gentlemen turned round on him, and said " You
ought to be at church." (Hear.) That was their creed--
that if they kept a man out of the publichouse they sent him
to church. If a man were religiously inclined he went to

church before he took his walk in the country, and was it
not a way of worshipping the great Creator to walk among
His works and admire their beauty ? (Hear, hear.) The
bill would not put an end to drinking—it tvould force men
to break the law. There would be just as much drunken-
ness as ever, and a great in' rease of hypocrisy. (Hear.)
The hon. gentleman had quoted the example of Scotland.
Scotland was an as;:etic country, with a peculiar flavour for
what was callow Sabbath observance, and it was the most
drunken country on face of the earth. (Cheers and laugh-
ter.) A friend of his who had been in Scotland on a visit
had brought back a very good story. He was stopping in
tLe neighbourhood of a very beautiful waterfall, and when
Sunday came round, there being an interval between kirk
and dinner, he said " I'll go and see your waterfall. " Gude
men," said his host, " it's the Sabbath." (Laughter.)
"What, then," replied his friend, " can't I see God's works
on God's day ?" Oh, no," replied the host; "you maun
stay here—you can't break the Sabbath." (Laughter.) And
in deference to his host the gentleman staid indoors and
they sat down to spend the day in tippling. (Loud laughter.)
This was a well-to-do house, where they could drink their
own beer and whisky without having to send out of the
house for it. Did the hon. gentleman believe that he would
make men worship God more completely by compelling them
to abstain from walking abroad ? What he wanted was to
turn this nation into a sour, ascetic, hypocritical people.
(Hear, hear.) The bill was the same in substance as that
which was introduced last year, and the hon. gentleman was
honest enough to say that the modifications which he had
introduced were against his will. That was exactly the
principle of the promoters of the bill—they thought a thing
was wrong, but still they did it. (Laughter.) The bill last
year was rejected with ignominy, and to prevent the dissen-
sion and dissatisfaction which were occasioned then he would
ask the house to mark its sense of it by refusing leave to
introduce it. (Hear, beat-)
Mr. CLAY said, that is several important modifications
had been made in the bill in deference to the opinions ex-
pressed in that house last year, his hon. friend and colleague
was entitled to be allowed to introduce the bill.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE, while professing the greatest re-
spect for the mover and seconder of the motion, and lament-
ing the inclination to drink which prevailed in this country,
would appeal to the house and the Government not to allow
an agitation to take place such as had been witnessed a few
years ago. (Hear, hear.) The present measure would create
a similar agitation, and it might possibly also end in the
whole of the restrictions in regard to Sunday being entirely
swept away. (Cheers.)
Sir G. GREY said that, in deference to the strong opinion
expressed by large numbers of persons throughout the coun-
try in favour of a measure similar to the present, he had
upon a former occasion voted fcr its introduction, and
he had no occasion to regret having done so, because
a full discussion of the subject was the result. That
bill, however, had been rejected on the second reading
by a large majority, and he must therefore refuse to
go through such a process again. (Loud cheers.) If
the bill were allowed to be introduced, and the second
reading were fixed for some weeks hence, great agitation
would take place, and he was quite sure the bill would be
ultimately rejected. He thought it would be unwise, inex-
pedient, and unnecessary to discuss the question again.
(Cheers.)
Mr. HORSFALL censured the tone of the remarks
made by the hon member for Sheffield (Mr. Roebuck)2 as
unbefitting the dignity of the house.
Mr. PACKE, who rove amid loud cries of "Divide,"
opposed the introduction of the bill, which would have the
effect of punishing the innocent for the guilty,

The house divided—
For the motion,
Against it

Majority against leave to intro-
duce the bill .............. —3O
Tho house adjourned at twenty-ov° minutes to one
o'clock.

The War in Denmark,

(From the Times Special Correspondent lately at the Danish
lteacl-quarters.)
war nor COPENHAGEN, May 3.
b
The Danes are brought to a state which is neither
peace;
conditiono
seem
andstrangetosay,isl to
consider g
it
particularly
ga uncomfortable
e
going; F
rede-ricia fallen; Jutland as freely open
to. invas).-00 as Schleswig; Egremont-Lindenkrone,
t his 3,500 horse and foot, is eluding the Aus-
trians in some far away corner of the Cimbrian
Peninsula, dodging the enemy behind some inlet of
the sea, watching his opportunity to embark and
take himself and the fortunes of Denmark out of
the lost mainland.
On this side the Little Belt, at Strib and
Mid ilefart, the Dannebrog is still waving defiance
to the German birds of prey, one-headed and two-
handed ; bent, to all appearance, under defending
the Island of Funen to the utmost. Defence, how-
ever, necessarily implies attack and it, moreover,
supposes, on the part of the defenders, means some-
what commensurate with the forces of the assailants.
An attack upon Funen, on the part of the Austro-
Prussians, is more than can be expected even of the
vanity and infatuation of those two Powers; nor is
it at all likely that they will be induced to adopt
such a course simply because the Danes wish it,
and augur well from it for themselves. Should
the Germans really make the attempt to force their
way across the Strait, it is not so certain that all
the strength of what still remains of the little
Danish army would have power to hinder them, or
to hold any part of the island against them, not, at
least, until the Danes can muster in the field batter
artillery than they now have—an artillery which,
as experience has shown, is no more a match foe the
Prussian rifled cannon than a penknife for a sword-
blade. The Danes, however, are not so very san-
guine as to their ability to keep Funen if the Ger-
mans put forth their strength to take it. They
foresee the day in which all their dominions may be
reduced to their sovereign island of Zealand ; nor
are they confident that even their boasted maritime
superiority may not vanish before the combined
efforts of the German and Austrian fleets, and that
the war may not be brought to the shores of the
Sound and to the bastions of their capital.
We have all read of that barbaric king whose
ambitious plans expanded upon every suggestion
of what was to follow after the fulfilment of each
scheme of conquest, Syria after Egypt, Media
after Syria, and Bactria, and India—and then ? The
Danes reverse all that, and you cannot drive them
into a corner and obtain an answer to your question
as to what will be left to lose after all is lost. Jut-
land and Schleswig, Funen after Jutland, the fleet,
and the capital. What next ? When nothing is
left to fight for, will they make peace ? Will they
accept the conqueror's terms when not an inch of
ground remains whereon to sign their name to the
treaty ?
The Danes ventured on this war upon false ex-
pectations. They thought that it was neither for the
honour nor for the interest of Europe that they
should oe sacrificed. They trusted to the chapter of
accidents. They felt sure that something would turn
up in their favour—that they could not be without
natural allies or protectors in the world. They are
now in the condition of a gambler who has staked
his whole on a losing card; they are growing des-
perate, and contend that the e Red" must turn up
after all ; so long as there is life there is hope; the
game has only to be kept up, and where a defender
failed, an avenger may arise., Europe immolates
them to her anxious love of peace ; she would not
fight to keep them alive ; she may have to battle
on their grave, and be involved in their ruin.
The political horizon is certainly not unfavour-
able to those who are on the look-out for squalls.
Schleswig and Holstein have been taken from Den-
mark, but it is not very clear for whose benefit
they were conquered. They are claimed on behalf
of Germany. But who, as yet, has been able to
make out what is Germany Success has done
wonders towards identifying Prussia with that
misty abstraction, and the German papers already
cry out not only for the annexation of the "sea-
girt" provinces to the Brandenburg monarchy, but
also for the rallying of the Vaterland nationality
round the throne of the Hohenzollern. Will Aus-
tria ever reconcile herself to the blunder which
made her instrumental towards placing the German
higentonie in the hands of her hereditary rival ?
Will she allow it to be said that she was stupid
enough to help to enrich Prussia with the spoils of
Denmark, and to enlist in her favour those suffragee
of German patriotism which the Cabinet of Berlin
had from 1813 to 1863 done all in its power to
alienate? Will Austria avow that she has thus cut
her own throat, and lavished her gold and blood to
shut herself out of Germany?
These are the questions the Danes put to them-
selves, and they are ready to reckon upon their
present Austrian foe as a possible future ally. They
are aware, also, that there are three Germans in
the field ; that there is in the free cities, in the
small Courts, in the democratic unions of that
besotted Vaterland., a party no less hostile to
Pruk-slan ambition. Ulan Austril herself, There is

the Augustenburg faction, the Universal Suffrage
set. Prussia will have to settle with them ; she
will have to settle with those who sympathise with
them.

Suppose Prussia takes Holstein, Schleswig, Jut-
land, Fumen, Zealand, the Sound ; suppose the pres-
tige of conquest wins over to her every patriotic
heart in Germany; suppose shesnubs the Frankfort
Diet, spurns the small fry of princes, beats Austria
from the field, builds up the old empire of the 0 thos
and the Hohenstaufen. She may not be out in her
reckoning with Germany; but what of the rest
of Europe ? The annexation of Holstein, and even
of a part of Schleswig, to a strong German State
infallibly leads to the occupation of the Sound and
the maritime supremacy of Germany in the Baltic
at no distant period. Will Denmark be the only
loser by such an arrangement ? Have Russia,
Sweden, and England nothing to say to it ? The
aspirations of Germany are boundless. They are
in inverted ratio with the state of prostration and
impotence in which the country has so long been
lying. It is because the Germans are nothing
that they expect to become everything. Should
the Teutonic ox only get rid of the iron ring which
his rulers have cunningly driven through his nose,
he would become a very buil in the European
china shop. Mayhap, there are those who find
it is for the common good that the useful animal
should thus be ringed and chained to his stall.
Mayhay, France is not in a hurry to have so
powerful a neighbour near her, and is not to be
propitiated by the little strip of territory in the
valley of the Save, with which Prussia might hope
to compound for the consent of the Emperor Na-
poleon to her projected aggrandisement. The
" rectification of her natural frontiers" is doubt-
less, a great object with that country which has
just annexed Savoy and Nice. The question is
whether France would gain more by thwarting
or by humouring her Rhenish neighbour. The
great Imperial cat has been pretending to
be asleep all the time these Germau mice had
their dance and carouse. It was not without an
inward purr that he saw the incautious Prussian
removing his neighbour's landmarks. "Go on,
gentlemen," he said in his heart, " trample on the
sacredness of old treaties; appeal to the right of
the strongest; set up the cry of nationality; hallow
the principle of universal suffrage. Trouble the
waters of Europe, and let us see who shall fish the
deepest in them,"
The war in Denmark, the Danes think, began
with the silent consent of France ; it can hardly
terminate without her outspoken fiat. Whatever
Prussia and Germany may gain by their aggressive
policy, they have surely placed themselves at the
mercy of the Emperor Napoleon. They will either
have to relinquish their hold of Danish territory,
or they will have to make amends to France either
by a spontaneous offer, or by a forcible spoliation.
And how can France be won over by a paltry dis•
trict on the Save, when she can seize upon a whole
region on the Rhine. Oh ! but England and
Russia, and all Powers interested in the public
order of Europe, will stand up for Belgium, at
least, if not for the Prussian provinces of the
Rhine. Possibly ! But they will have equally to
uphold the rights of Denmark on her own posses•
sions. Europe is a castle of cards, and the whole
edifice topples down if only one of the paste-
boards on which it is based be removed. Nothing
easier than to sacrifice Denmark and leave her to
her fate. Hardly possible to avoid a universal
subversion of the existing state of things ; hardly
possible to escape the dangers of a general Euro-
pean war.