The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-09 00:00:00

°N4"t; 4 baton+

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock.
IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(THIS DAY.)

lIOIUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Twelve o'clock.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The following Bills were read a third time and
passed:—
Corgis, Maclaynlletb, and River Dovey Railway, with
branches.
Tees Conservancy.
Wirksworih Mining Customs and Mineral Courts.
DECIMAL COINAGE.
In reply to Mr. THORNELY,
Mr. HAMILTON said he was happy to state that the
first issue of 2s. florins, which had been delayed in con-
sequence of the pressure of business, would take place

in the week after next.
EPISCOPAL AND CAPITULAR REVENUES,

&c. BILL.
The Marquis of BLANDFORD moved the second
reading of this Bill.
Mr. WALPOLE considered the state of the session
would not admit of their going into a discussion upon a
measure of this extensive nature, even if there
was nothing in the provisions calling for particular ob-
jection. Since the Bill had been introduced he had con-
sulted the highest authorities in the Church, as well as
others who took an ipterest in.the.subjeate andelse- was
, _
Dew prepared to say the Government would undertake
the consideration of the state of the cathedral bodies and
institutions, so as to place them generally on a more
satisfactory footing, and to make them more practically
useful than they were at present in regard to spiritual
instruction and education. Under those circumstances
he hoped the Noble Lord would consent to the order for
the second reading, being now read and discharged.
The Marquis of BLANDFORD said ho had ex-
pected that toe Government would have made some de-
claration with regard to the Bill.
Mr. WALPOLE did not think the House ought to
pledge the Government to any details.—(Hear.)
Mr. SLA.NEY heard the statement of the Secretary
for the Home Department with great satisfaction, and
he trusted the Noble Lord would accept his offer and
withdraw the Bill.
After a few words from Sir B. BRYDGES,
Mr. WALPOLE pointed out the four heads of the
Bill, and said it was the wish of the Government to re-
lieve as much as possible those who held high offices
in the Church from all duties of a worldly and tem-
poral nature.—(Hear, hear.) The spirit in which
the Government proposed to proceed was to con-
sider whether these great cathedral establishments
might not be more fully restored to the high and holy
purposes for which they were originally founded and
endowed, via., as temples for the daily worship of the
Almighty Being, as seats of learning, as councils to assist
the bishops in several matters relating to their dioceses, and
asconnecting links between the higher and lower orders of
the clergy, so as to bring the whole body of the Church
in perfect harmony.—(Cheers.) That being the general
view of the Government, he thought it would be prema-
ture for the House to prejudge the question by binding
them to any particular details.—(Hear.)
Lord EBRINGTON was glad to hear that the Go-
vernment intended to take the whole subject of the Bill
into their serious consideration.
Sir R. H. IN GLIS thanked the Secretary for the Horns
Department for the general view he had given of the in-
tendons of the Government, and concurred in the de-
sirableness of not continuing the present discussion now
that there was a general opinion in the House that the
Bill ought not to be pressed,
Lord R. GROSVENOR also expressed his gratifica-
tion at hearing the declaration of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman.
Mr. j. WILLIAMS hoped,
in any measure which
might be proposed, prevision would be made to prevent
any clergyman being appointed to a bishopric iu Wales
who was not acquainted with the Welsh language.
Sir BENJA MIN HALL considered that unless the
management of ecclesiastical property was placed in
a Commission, and the salaries of Bishops and other
functionaries in the Church, the existing abuses
would still be continued. He hoped the Govern-
ment would see there was a disposition and de-
termination on the part of the laity to insist not
only on reforms in the manner in which the,
ecclesiastical body performed their duties, but that
a full and searching inquiry should be instituted
into the temporalities of the Church, not with the
view of depriving her real and effielent servants
of good and sufficient incomes, but with the intention of
effecting necessary reforms. If the Government did not
yield to the voice out of doors, and propose a measure
well calculated to, remedy abuses in the Church, matters
would come to a much more serious pass than was now
contemplated,
Mr. HORSMAN said, though the Noble Lord would
act judiciously in not pressing the Bill, he thought they
should have an opportunity to discuss the subject, in
order that the Government might know What was the
general opinion of the House. It was impossible to
delay the question, for the ecclesiastical system was ap-
proaceing a crisis, and if the Government shrunk from
the danger and tried to remedy the abuses the time for re-
form would soon pass away. public opinion was already
matured and explicit as to the condition of the cathedral
establishments,
as to the management of episcopal and
cepitular estates. and as to the present' condition of the
episcopate. A fixed income for bishops was infinitely
preferable to the existing system of payment; and as
the Queen had given up her
annuel vote, anti as judges and other yaw
netwiohn-
estates in heturie foh an
sties were pate
the episcopal body should
by a fixed salary, he saw no
incomes from the Crown or a Royal ommissihn.
Ecclesiastical law was the exception tot he reform whichd
object to rceceive heir
had taken place in all other branches o the lawe, and that
because it Lad been left in the hands of th. B ops
for that dare The • iple of reform of existing
J • principle themselves, who had proved that they were ill adapted
abuses must meet with the general cot:cermee of the
1
House, nod the abuses existing in the ecclesiastics law
must be reformed its spite of the dignitaries of the Chure
ii
Mr. USWA.LD was of opinion that no reform
really beneficial to the Church of England
could take place without the concurrence of that
Church itself. By the Constitution of this couuntry, the
Church of England had had a corporate body of its own
members to regulate its own affaira, and it was the duty
of the House to proviths for the efficiency of that body,
but, at the same time, no good end would be attained by
Parliamentary Committees attempting
affairs of the Church. It should bo remerchered that the
Church of England was only a part of the greet Augli-
can Church, and that in all other parts of the world
where that system obtained, representative assemblies,
to regulate the
what in England was frequently called prlesteraft'
duly constituted, existed, and this materially prevented
It
was his strong opinion that this House had no right to
interfere with the internal affairs of the Church of Eng-
land.
Mr. S. HERBERT thought the Noble Lord would do
well to frankly accept the proposal of the Government.
The conciliatory tone and moderation of view of the
Secretary for the Home Department convinced him
there was no man in whose hands they might better
trust this important question for adjudication.—(Hear.)
But the subject was obviously beset by very great diffi-
culties, and if the Government attempted to deal with
it they must exercise very great forbearance. The
questions to be considered were, the extension of the
episcopate, the diminution in the number of chapters,
the abolition of the office of dean, and likewise the
restitution to the chapters of the especial duties which they
were originally intended to perform. He was not 'one
who thought the proposed increase of the episcopate
was too largo, but there was a strong objection in that
House to augment the number of Bishops in the House
of Lords, and most of the modes suggested for carrying
cut the increase were open to objections. In regard to
the payment of Bishops, he thought the system, as it
now stood, was most objectionable, for in fact they were
merely lased agents to the Ecclesiastical Commission over
large estates, from which they derived no benefit be-
yond the fixed income of their sees, and the quantity of
secular business imposed upon them could have no other
effect than to isolate them from the other ranks of the
clergy. As to the request that no one should be insti-
tested to a benefice in Wales except he under-
stood the Welsh language, he thought that more
likely to interfere with the vested rights of patrons.
But still if vested interests were considered in a too
lawyer-like spirit it would considerably interfere with
ecclestieal reform.
The Marquis of BLANDFORD noticed briefly some
of the points urged in the course of the discussion, and
repeated the explanation as to the object and scope of
the Bill, which he had given on a former occasion, ob-
serving that, is ender to maintain the unity of the
Church, he had thought it necessary to preserve its epis-
Twhoeu
orderh i withdraw
th e theay Bill.
was
epis-
copal character. 110 concluded by intimating that, in
consequence of what hod fallen from the Government,
he
then read and discharged.
A TI
theO
MANAGEMENT CLAUSES OF THE COMMITTEE
R NC.ommittee of Privy
Sir . Ff. INGLIS asked the Secretary of
Department,Stathe Home ONDUC
Ewhether
Council on Education was prepared to admit any relax-
ation of the reanagernent clauses?
Mr. WALPOLE said the Committee had prepared a
minute, admitting the relaxation of the managing clauses
in one respect, which was a very important one; and a
copy of it would be laid on the table ac soon as it was
fieally settled.
Sir R. 13. INGLIS—Then, is it not settled?
Mr. WALPOLE—Tho wording is not settled,
COUNTY ELECTIONS POLLS BILL.
On tile motion of Lord R. GROSVENOR for going
into Committee on this Bill,
PACKE moved that the House go into Committee
on this Bill this day six months. He denied that the
excuse, . that
bribery wes practised on the second day of
county elzotins, was a true one. There were in England
and Wah's 79 county elections, and as at a general elec-
tion they would all take place within a few days of each
other the Effect of this Bill would be to clisirtipuhise a