The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-18 00:00:00

Mr. OSWALD also supported the proviso.
The Committee then divided, when there appaared—
For Mr. Wakley's proviso 77
Agairist it ... 167
Majority against the proviso 90
Mr. PETO moved the addition (-)f a proviso at the
end of the clause, that nicruber2 of the Society of
Ft iends ciiled Quakors should not be liable to serve in

the militia.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that under the 421 of George 111., c. 90, the deputy lieu-
tenants were empowered to provide substitutes for
Quakers. The Government had considered the subiput
long before it had been submitted by the Hon. Gentle-
man opposite, end they did not see any reason why
Quakers should ba exempted from the necessity of sup-
plying substitutes. But at the same time they consi-
dered that that part of the clause of the Act of George
111 , by which defaulters under it were committed to
prison, was not in accordance with the spirit of the pre-
sent ago, an.l they thottrefore meant to do away with it,
and to free Quakers by means of a proviso inserted in
the Bill from the liability
of imprisonment. He trusted,
therefore, the Hon. Gentleman would not press his
amendment.

Mr. BRIGHT had prepared a proviso on the subject,
which would have had the effect of exempting Quakers
from the obnoxious portions of that clause.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that their object was that Quakers should not be placed
in a worse position than others.
The proviso' was not pressed.
Mr. M. GIBSON moved the following proviso to this
clause:—" Provided always, that notwithstanding the
first recited Act, or any other Act, no private man cho-
sen by ballot to serve in the militia shall be compelled
to take any oath that he will faithfully serve in the
militia for the term of five years, or until he be sooner
discharged." He considered it little better than blas-
phemy to compel a man to take an oath which he
might not intend to observe if he could possibly escape
from it.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped
the Committee would not be led away into the discus-
sion of considerations which applied to all oaths, and was
not by any means peculiar to the militia oath.
Mr. BRIGHT denied that there was any resemblance
between the case of a witness in a court ofjustice and a
militiaman. This was an infamous measure, violating
)
the first principles of morality.—
(Oh, oh. Sir P. WOOD hoped great advances had been made
on the subject of oaths since 1802.—(Ilear, hear.) Since
then four thousand Custom-house oaths had been abo-
lished, and compulsory oaths altogether had been done
away with. If the militiaman could say he was a
Quaker, or Separatist, or had boon (although now an
lufidel), he need not take the oath; but if he were an
Independent, ho must take the oath.—(Hear, hear.) A
person had been imprisoned four years on account of an
objection to take the oath. There were numbers con-
stantly increasing who objected to oaths. The decla-
rations required were really absurd. The King's trum-
peter and the King's chimney-sweeper had been called
upon to declare that they would not use their offices
against the Church of England.—(A laugh.)
The C immittee then divided—
For the clause as it stood
Against it ...
Majority ..• 77
Mr. WAK LEY said it was admitted the compulsory
clauses could not be operative this year. He therefore
moved that the Chairman should report progress.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
the Hon. Gentleman hardly dealt fairly with the House.
The clause had been discussed before, and the Com-
mittee had decided on it, The principle also had been
discussed several times. Reiterated appeals were con-
stantly made from Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of
the House to expedite the business of the country, and
under these circumstances he could not help saying that
a motion like this almost partook of the character of
vexatious.—(Hear.) If the Hon. Member persisted in
so unseasonable a motion, therefore, he (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) should divide the Committee.
Mr. BRIGHT said the House had not been dis-
cussing the clause, as the Right Hon. Gentleman stated,
but the exempcious. The division was hurried on in the
early part of the evening, and there was only a majority
of 17. As it was necessary, therefore, to take another
division on the ballot, it would be better to take it on
that clause. It was not intended to adopt factious pro-
ceedings—(Olh !)—but to take a discussion when the
House was fresh.
The Committee then divided— •

... 156

.
For the motion ••• ... 40
Against it ... ••• ••• ... 179
Majority 139
The announcement was received with cheers.
Mr. WILLIAMS begged to appeal once more to the
Government not to procted further. He moved that the
Chairmqn do now leave the chair.
The CIiANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
after the unmistakeable manner in which the sense of the
Committee had been expressed, he confessed he was as-
tonished at the course pursued by the Hoe. Gentleman.
If he thought he could defeat the Bill. by such a course
he was mistaken. He might inconvenience the Govern-
ment—he might prevent important business being pro-
secuted, and he might protract the duration of the ses-
sion, but the Bill would become law.—(Cheers.) He
was always anxious to defer to the wishes of a majority,
or any considerable party, but he felt he had in this case
only one duty, and that was to persevere.—(Cheers.)
Mr. GRENVILLE BERKELEY said he had
throughout opposed the Bill,
but he would not be a party
to any factious opposition like the present.
The gallery was again cleared, but no division took
place.
The clause
t((16),o si ainagsaamoenn Tdedh,urwsadsayagnreexetd. to, and
Th© CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and ob-
tained
leave
The Ecclesiastical Courts Criminal Jurisdiction Bill
went through Committee
pro forma.
Tho Apprehension of Deserters Bill was read a third
time.

The Further Extension County Courts Bill went
through Committee, previous to which some conversa-
tion occurred between Mr. Walpole and Mr. Fitzroy re-
lative to a clause which had been inserted and consented
to inadvertently by Mr. Walpole, the effect of which
was said to be to raise the salaries of the county court
judges from 1,000/. to 1,200/, per annum, Mr. Walpole_
intimated his intention to oppose the further progress of
this clause until assurance had been obtained of the con-
sent of the Crown.
THE PATENT LAW AMENDMENT BILL.
To a question,
Mi. HENLEY objected to send the whole subject to
a Committee, because that would bo tantamount to post-
poning legislation for the year.
The Bill was then read a second Cm°.
The Public Works Bill was read a second time.
The house adjourned at Half-past One.

UnfortunTatel i E
Unfortunately
MILITIAai-t
s 3
with a vast amount of
Government last night own popularity and peace,
it ever be put in force
110, the obnoxious
than a defeat; for a defeatnall
carried, by a division of 127 to
weeoindlyabt
militia. A triumph of thin of conscription for the
the possibility of aetual
la doubtful character, combined
ill-feeling out of doors, and with
resistance to the ballot, should
conscription really
and the general abandonment
of Lord cant.
the bone of contention. be
e raes gt
Government undoubtedly tion thus far in the discussionnti
amonAnybody who considers what
to, the fate of the conscrip-
tion asre removed
why so crazy
regular army and navy, !amen( of the principle in the
of the proposed militia,
and ill-found
be at a loss to understand
than common forms of
most heavily on the
The conscription is a lottery is chose to run on that rock.
a craft as the present
°TY of life, and is so far worse
and most occupied industrious, most responsible,
principle in the membersprogro,, of society. The, fate of the
nansts'avery, inasmuch as it falls
before the Rouse is significant, of the measure or measures
the general rule The ballot, which was
Bill, was subsequently John Russell's first Militia
odified by that Minister. In
the Militia Bill proposed
was degraded from its po • by his successors, the ballot
ionallank, as the last
resitiou as the rule, to an excep-
second reading of the Billonree. In order to secure the
wes postponed till the ballet, oven as a last re-
source,the now Parliament shall next' year, that is, till after
provision of the' Bill. Thebeavo had time to revise this
the secondary place, this onscription thus reduced to
mood, was still futurein
tense and this condi-
tionalground as a principle, though the Bill, retaining its
to come into practice. What ough most unlikely ever
natural to icquire, was there in peculiar sacredness, it is
citizens, in a time of profound na
the right of compelling
employments and dutiee, and dump, to forsake their
uncongenial employment of a e 713 t what might be, the
honourable service be injured by diort Why should an
sloe, and this measure be hatey the stigma of compul-
element of unpopularity? secir
thatre(l with an additional
not to come into force till Januaga the provision was
a useless bravado to insist on leaving
1, 1853, it looks like
in the Bill. It is difficult indeed to
the word " ballot"
to
shall ever again see an Engliehm, imagine that we
home against his will to a military or dragged from his
lire, but the mere existence of this for pseudo-military
sure robs the service of that voluntary
in the ma'
constituted its chief merit, and on '!'r.Y character which
match it .
haVe been suffered to rest. might safely
When George Stephenson, or Some
en-
gineering Titans, was asked whether it other of our
tunnel under the Straits of Dover, he replied possible to
only a question of money. Now, if
oP, ted that it was
anion with France is only a question oar underground
same may be said of the means of defence money, the
dangerous neighbours. It is only to raise, against our
and plenty will offer, especially when it i the bounty,
one that the service will begin and end 3 a hundred to
drills, a few parades, and one annual inspection,
a dozen
weather permitting. If Si., or a penny a daspection, the
period of engagement, will not do, 10/.
will;y durine, the
only fair that they who do not choose to go soldiering
and is
themselves should pay those who will, andsoldiering
market price of the work. This is the that at the
which our army and our navy are recriginciPle on
is found to answer very fairly, the objection col; and it
rather on the side of the public, which grumbles
being
the cast, than the soldier or the sailor, wi%rumbles at
is ready
to serve for less than the pay of any •
industrious
me-
chanic. Mr. Walpale must surely have forgotten'us
the moment the existence of any other force th for
described in his brief, when ho argued last night an that
inasmuch es 80;000 men were to be raised, it v.
sary to have the power of the ballot in order iteos feces-
the certainty of that number of men. More than I,finenre
men are found ready to servo her Majesty,
not 00,000
merelyby a few days' drill once a year, in fine weather
and at
holiday seasons, but every day of the year, for many
consecutive years, winter and summer, in Canadian
ly
frosts and wider tropical suns, in stormy seas and dead
climes, constantly exposed to all the miseries end
da
gers that embitter the life of the civilian only by their
-
occasional or possible oceurrence;—they are found
to do
this for what? For pay that any labouring gardener in the
neighbourhood of this metropolis would throw in