The Sun.
London, England, 1852-11-26 00:00:00

IVZtv
pity,

=.

tives of the people in this house should, notv
what might be said about audacity, now sett
" Hear, hear.") The right honourable gentle
to think that the only question worthy of co
and of a vote in that house was, whether or nftUt -)>Ac`
conduct of himself and his colleagues was such that hey(
were bound to support them. Now, he must make some ' `ow
comments on that subject, because he did Rot at all con
cur in the views of the right honourable gentleman on
that question ; but the time for that had not come. The
question that night was, whether that great system of
commercial policy, which the late Sir R. Peel, from the,
year 1842 to the year 1846, had proposed and carried
into the shape of law, and which they (the opposition
carried still further from 1847 to 1852, in the shape of
the sugar laws and the navigation laws, was a system
which had proved, beneficial to the country, and ought
to be maintained, continued, and extended. (Hear,
hear.) Now, it was extremely desirable that all those
who were of that opinion, who thought that it was bene-
ficial, should unite, if possible, in one vote in the asser-
tion of that doctrine. (Hear, hear.) Do not tell him
that what they were pleased to call abstract resolutions
were (vf no importance. The stability of our currency
stands upon an abstract resolution, passed in 1696, in
the re-tgn of Wm. 111., when it was resolved that the
standard of silver should not be altered. The currea'VY
was based on that resolution until 1828, when the qu.e..l-
- having again been discussed, the House of Commons,
on the motion of Mr. Huskisson, reaffirmed that resolu-
tion ; and again, when Lord Althorp was Chancellor of
the Exchequer, the currency question having been in-
'troduced, he called upon the house to reaffirm that re-
solution, and it did, so that from the year 1696 to 1852
the stability of our currency sy,3tem stood upon that re-
solution. Well, then, after the opinion of the country
had been fully tested and taken ag' to what was to be
the commercial policy of the country, why should it not
be placed on record that the house adapted that policy,
and their conviction that it should coLitinue to be the
policy of generations yet to come ? R7ly should not
that be the case when that other great ,lountry—the
'United States of North America—have reeslntlY, by a
great majority, decided that it, too, was fav,Wrable to
free trade ? Why should we not unite with' them in
carrying out that policy—and thus, by the jun 'ciion of
two great nations, sprung from the same race, .
make
that policy rule the world ? (Cheers.) Well, thei bif he
might venture to advise his hon. friend the memb,lf for
Wolverhampton, it would be this :—that the ChancAX
of the Exchequer having declared his willingness: toP
accept, instead of his own resolution, the amendml/45nt
which, it appeared, had first been drawn up by his rig
honourable friend the member for Carlisle, and afte
wards placed on the table by the noble lord the membe r
for Tiverton, that he (Mr. Villiers) should likewise de-'
clare his acceptance of that resolution—(Ministerial
cheers)—and that all who were Free-traders—whether
like his hon. friend the member for Wolverhampton, and
like the hon member for the West Riding, and other _
hon. gentlemen, who were Free-traders of a very long
date—whether they were Free-traders of the date of
1842 or 1846, or only dated from the month of Novem-
ber in the present year—(a laugh)—whatever the date of
their Free-trade opinions, should all unite and give
these resolutions the stamp of the approval of the British
House of Commons. • (Loud and general cheering.)

N2i060111.;
47%611iii

~.
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Mr. COBDEN (who rose amidst loud cries of " Vil-
liers ") said he had felt considerable difficuty in com-
prehending what was the tendency of the remarks of scame
of the speakers, and the real object of this discussion-4
and it was only by degrees that he arrived at a full um-
derstanding of what was the question at present. Where
he listened to the remarks of the noble lord the member
for Tiverton, as to behaving in an ungentlemanly man-
ner, and the importance of the house coming to a general
agreement on this great question, he was almost, for the
moment, unconscious of what was the real question at
issue between them ; but the right hon. baronet the
member for Carlisle had, in his address, completely de-
veloped what was the issue. It appeared that a resolu-
tion was prepared by the right -hon. gentleman, which
contained words asserting that the free-trade measures
since 1846 had not the effect of inflicting any injury on
great interest. The right hon. gentleman told them
that these words were inserted to meet claims for corn-.
pensation, and to bar such claims if they were made. It
appeared this resolution, by some means or other not ex-
plained, had fallen into the hands of the noble lord the
member for Tiverton, and that he had taken it, and after
cutting out of it that important part, that all-important
part of the resolution, it had found its way to the Carl-
ton, and there, at a meeting of the protectionist party, it
had been resolved unanimously to accept that resolution.
(Cries of "No, no," on the Ministerial benches below
the gangway.) They were not unanimous. (No,
no.) Well, then, they were not to have this unanimity of
which so much was said. It appeared they were not going
to settle this matter in this gentlemanly well-behaved
drawing-room fashion. He would admit, to a certain
extent, the excellent tone and tendency of the reso-
lution drawn up by the right hon. member for Carlisle,
but as it had pleased the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
so it seemed the free-trade party had accepted the reso-
lution. (Hear.) Well, then, Downing-street and the
Carlton Club were not agreed in opposition. At Down-
ing-street there had been a meeting—some one had
once talked about the barracoons there—(a laugh)— and
there it had been resolved to support it when divested of
those odious epithets, which it was said the free-trade
party had inserted, for the purpose of preventing them
from accepting it. Now he might say, and it was, he
hoped, no presumption on his part to say so, that before
any resolution had been presented to that house as the
resolution of the free-trade party, it might have been
submitted to him. (Cheers.) Now, he never saw that
resolution which had been placed before the Carlton Club
and Downing-street. (Hear, hear.) He was no con-
senting party to it. He was of opinion that whatever
resolution they passed ought distinctly to acknowledge
the wisdom and the justice of the policy of 1846, but it
appeared that the resolution they had adopted was the
one from which the words wisdom and justice were ex-
punged, and which debarred
.them from claiming com-
pensation. Well, then, it seemed, after what had passed
that night, that this Was a matter of great importance,
because the Chancellor of the Exchequer had told them
that he had measures which would ameliorate the condi-
tion, and compensate the classes who were injured.
(Hear.) He told them, in answer to the remarks of the
noble lord the member for Leicestershire, that he hadre-
medial measures. Well, what would his hon. friend, the
member for the Tower Hamlets, say to that? (A laugh.)
The last time he had the pleasure of meeting that hon.
baronet was on the platform of the Free-trade Hall, in
Manchester, and an appearance on these boards did not
usually deprive a man of his political virtue. (A laugh)
If the hon. baronet had supported the resolution of the
right honourable member for Carlisle, he would not
have been surprised, but after taking that from
the noble lord, he was certainly surprised at his want of
political sagacity. There had been, it appeared, some
little difficulty in framing this resolution to meet the
views of the right honourable gentleman, the member
for the University of Oxford. It seemed that the right
hon. gentleman had once been caught and voted for
some motion of the right hon. member for Bucks, and
that the resolution, therefore, while it debarred future
c.oomn.pen(sNatoi,onoosrulThd neotresghoulottoiount rsehtruotacittivoeuctomfopr epnassat-
'injuries. Well, if they put that plainly it amounted to
this, " there shall be compensation for corn aid cattle,
but no compensation for butter and cheese." (Hear,
and a laugh.) Well, now if the right hon. gentleman
should think himself bound by his precipitate vote on
a question of compensation in 1850, he would ask hint
to contrast the condition of the people at present, and
of these very classes with what it was in 1850, when he
might have thought there was some claim to compensa-
tion, and he must come to the conclusion that there was
no such reason now. But the question came, whether
they were to have compensation at the expense of the
tax-payers, who were to pay for free trade ? (" No,
no," and cheers.) He said, if they admitted the ques-
tion at all, it came to that, and that it would be as easy
to take money out of the pockets of the tax-Ps:M(4
measures of compensation as by direct
taxes be as
might levy under that guise imposts that wouldsa.crr
as
burdensome as protection. (Hear, hear.)
then
question in
Free-traders, they would not deal
that way.
and
e bFree-traders did not
it, to that policy. (A laugh.)
Theyet
they Protectionists
madeth e deny e e2dw
city
wthaesy acateceti
_cheers)-
n, he warned
saidea
make
eifththeiery gentlemen opposite did
t if lion.
them solemnly, tha
"r`abisoewds;hitsocmomajpoerint:ntsion(
tang
word and past conduct on
ah
struggleoped the yt
hwouldt ul markbe
fawrhamtohree
this, such a struggle would bseucchomamesnuebete—ctanhdadif his
ridig_httiwieyithwotuhledmr,aihsee
envy (Opposition cheers.) The object of
disastrous to them than any
wpdaiasssstotolsutrutbil4logng:gethtioenprwehei.etraah they
had been
the test the
after the
in good a position as
stood as before, not only in tho last,
but in previous Parliaments, when they had beaten. the
friend
whether, resolutions
Exchequer by iorge
qhiiisesht? ,
right hon. the Chancellor of the
majorities on every question in which compensation \
involved. They wanted to know whether in this nkTir
house, after this late election, after all the turmoil, W
pense, derangement,
and extravagance of that election'
—(hear)—whether that h.wouse. was. in favour of free trade.
would They (the Free-traders) Id have that question pure
and simple, submitted to the house, and, therefore, his
advice to his hon. friend the member for Wolverhamp-
ton was, that he would not withdraw his resolution.
(Cheers.) He hoped they would now take the real dis-
cussion, and when that was settled they would know
what was to be the work of the Free-traders in future.
(Cheers.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE, who was met by renewed criesfor Mr. Villiers, said the hon. member for the West
Riding was always plain spoken. lie said thhatadhe wished
to try fairly whether those who said they had
Well,been in-
juredhe had a claimi to compensation
consistent
t
labour, and
was tolerably well known as a
anxiety,
Protectionist,
and all he had got by being so was, .
round They b r ed
. e
that they stood upon their old
.g
expense. (Cheers.) But he had no hesitation in saying
te ined to see whether the present Government wol'd
they had been injured, and believing that, they were ;le-
acknowledge the injuries which had been done—the'
existing injury, and provide remedial measures. If
the house adopted the resolution proposed on call&
side, being a Protectionist, he should leave it, and
take no part in its deliberations until he saw what
measures the Government brought forward. As i;o1
the language of the honourable member for the West
Riding in that house, it was in substance his language
out of doors. That honourable member was one of the
most successful demagogues of the age. (Oh, oh, and
hear.) Yes, he acknowledged it. At that meeting;. con!

vened by him at Manchester, and at which the hoze
member for the Tower Hamlets was present, the hon.
member for the West Riding brought the question to the
very issue that was now before them. He declared his
intention to convict the Protectionists of inconsistency,
and just let them see the position in which he should be
placed, if he voted either for the resolution of the hon.
iimmber for Wolverhampton or the Government. The
hon. member said at Manchester, " we will place this
question so plainly before the house, that our old adver-
saries the Protectionists, shall not have any chance of
escaping from an honest avowal of their opinions ; and
if they have really changed, that they shall recant all
they have said upon the subject of free trade and protec-
tion. But it must be emphatic. They must say that
free trade does not lower wages • they must say that
free trade does not cause a drain of gold from this
country ; they must say that free trade has not thrown
land out of cultivation in this country—they must say
that the land of this country is still worth something;
and they must say that wheat, good wheat, had not
been imported into this country, and cannot be, at 245.
a quarter. Those are a few of the things they must say,
when they said the very opposite before. And we must
have no accompaniment about ' compensation.' Do you
look in your dictionary, and see what the word
Compensation' means, and you will see, that if
there is any compensation due at all, it is to those
people who, from 1815 down to 1846, were kept upon
short commons by the aristocracy." Such were the
views of the hon, member and his party, and he rejoiced
that the Government resisted the motion brought
forward by that party. As men of honour, they were
bound to resist it, but, as men of honour, they were
bound also to bring forward remedial measures. Among
all the changes and events of late years, that which we
most deplored was the shock given to public confidence
by the men whom the conservative party had placed in
power, and if a second conservative Ministry gave a
second shock to public confidence in public men, it would
be far more injurious to them and to the country than
anything that could be done by the worst set of demo-
crats. (Hear, hear.) He had confidence in the Earl of
Derby when he submitted this question to the decision
of the country, and had waited to see what measures they
would take to test that decision. When the resolution
approving of free trade came forward, he would leave it
to those who approved of that policy to make it as far as
they could the decision, but he and those who thought
with him would leave it, and wait to see what course the
Ministry would take on that resolution—a course that
would decide, not only whether there should be compen-
sation, but upon the character of public men. (Hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE, with reference to the allusion of
the hon. member (Mr. Cobden) to his vote in 1850, said
that it had no connection with the question now before
the house, and that he should consider himself perfectly
unfettered in coming to the question of compensation by
any previous vote. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. STAPLETON (who was greeted by loud criesof
"Villiers, Villiers," and was very imperfectly heard)
said—Comparing the two resolutions before the house,
he could have no hesitation in adopting that which in
the most distinct manner barred compensation. His
predecessor in that house was a Free-trader, but because
he hesitated to declare against compensation he had been
rejected; and in therefore supporting the strongest re-
solution, he should only be redeeming the pledges he had
given at the hustings.
Mr. VILLIERS said, that after the appeal made to
him, and the discussion that had taken place, he must
say that he did not recollect having seen anything of a
similar description. He was summoned down to that
house by a letter, which the hon. member for the Tower
Hamlets was kind enough to send him about half an-
hour before the meeting of the house, as he had an im-
portant question to put to him. He had been waiting
for some time to hear reasons assigned by some one or
other who should withdraw the resolutions he had
moved—resolutions of which it was said he was the
mover but not the author. (Hear.) He had not the
honour of paternity, but he had all the liability. (Hear,
and a laugh.) In making his statement, it would
be very simple. He had heard nothing in any of
the speeches that night to show why his resolutions
should not be acceptable, and which the right honour-
ble baronet the member for Ripon, in a friendly spirit
towards him, had said he ought to be the mover of.
But as it was agreed that some resolution should be sub-
mitted to the house, he had naturally asked himself and
his friends what the purpose of that resolution was to
be ? He might as well state that even by the admission
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer himself, there was
not a sufficient degree of distinctness in the Queen's
Speech, on the subject of recent legislation. This reso-
lution was meant to supply the deficiency, and make up
for the omission, and to provide for the verdict of the
country, after the appeal that had been made, to its
being solemnly recorded in that house. (Hear.) Well,
then the real question—a question upon which Ministers
seemed not to have made up their mind was, whether
recent commercial legislation had been beneficial to the
country, and had been so tested as that it should be
maintained, extended, and become the basis of all future
legislation. That was his view, and the view of the
friends whom he spoke to on the subject; and in that
view and spirit the resolution was prepared and pro-
- posed. In that fair spirit was it proposed, in that spirit
it was drawn up, He did not deny that other gentle-
men sent new suggestions,—perhaps not less than ten
or twelve did so,—but they were all very simple, and all
of them included the terms or the statement, that
our recent legislation had been just and beneficial
(Hear, hear.) It never entered into his mind
it never entered the mind of any one, tha
the legislation which had been just and beneficia'
could be designated by "odious epithets." (Hear, hear.)
The right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Ex-
ehequer alluded to the very open way in which commu-
nications sometimes found their way from one party to
another, but he ought to be tender in saying so, bocause
he stated that to be a fact, from information of that na-'
ture which was one of a most unfounded description.
He stated it as if with authority, he stated it distinctly
as a fact that the words, "wise, just, and beneficent,
said to be incompatible with the honour of the gentle-
man opposite, as applied to the act which repealed the
corn laws, were introduced into the resolution after the
meeting at Lord Derby's. Now, he did not attribute
any wilful mistake to the right. hon. gentleman, but he
must give it as complete a contradiction as was consis-
tent with courtesy, and say it was most indisputably and
unequivocally untrue. (Loud cries of "hear, hear.")
All the resolutions drawn up on the subject contained
these words, and his noble friend the member for the
city of London in the draft which he drew up also in-
serted them. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Villiers) could
not for the life of him see why it was that such a con-
struction was put upon them as that they were offen-
sive. (Cheers.) If hon, gentlemen opposite committed
errors, let them take the consequences—(cheers)—it
was rather humbling to them, no doubt--(cheers)—but
many great and eminent men were to be found who con-
fessed the faults into which they had fallen, and he
certainly never thought it offensive or odious to have
such language applied to those who admitted they had
committed a mistake. (Hear, hear.) He wanted to
know what was so offensive in the resolutions. There
was something or another intended by those who thought
so—something concealed from view, which he could not
guess at, for the resolution was proposed for the simple
purpose of recording the opinion of the country upon
the subject. (Cheers.) That opinion he (Mr. Villiers)
held to be, that the recent policy pursued was wise, just,
and beneficial, and if hon. gentlemen opposite did not
see that before now, their experience ought to justify
them in saying so now. (Hear, hear.) The hon. mem-
ber for Berkshire was proof against experience, but let
him (Mr. Villiers) be told the side on which an, hon.
gentleman7sat, and he could give a pretty good guess as
to the manner in which he should vote. Why should not
that house profit by experience ? They did so every day,
and it was an open and fair course to take, that finding
the country declared, to state so unreservedly. (Hear')
But then, it was said, that by doing so, they would be
offending the consistency of hon. gentlemen, that the
resolution proposed by him contained words incompatible
with their honour. He was told to leave out these
words for the sake of the recent conversion of the
Government. He heard one gentleman after another
rise behind the Government and exclaim " don't treat
us so horribly as this—(laughter)—propose something
to reconcile to us the adoption of this policy ;" and his
hou. friend the member for the North Riding of York-
shire declared he would never do again what was impos-
'ale for him to do. (Laughter.) The hon. gentleman who
spoke from the opposite (Mr. Villiers's) side of the
house laid great stress on the effect which the words
must have at that moment ; they did not however, aban
don their principles, and yet he was asked to be tende -
of their consciences. (Cheers.) He did not draw up
his resolution for them. (Loud cheers.) The question
lay in a small compass : was the recent commercial policy
"wise, just, and beneficient ?" (Cheers.) The majority
of the house concurred in that policy, and it was pre-
ZiselY because of the opinion of that majority that it was
chend to declare the opinion of the country. (Loud
and .) The course he was bound to pursue was clear
g7tPaightforward, and he should therefore persevere
a his resolution, whatever the opinion of certain hon.
Sheeted may be. (Loud cheers.)
'member
W• CLAY observed, that the hon. gentleman the
fo
tacy
as
to %Wolverhampton had fallen into an inaccu-
part
of
the : nature of the question he put in an earlier
twelve o'ciockvetlinag- He had written to him a note at
his motion,
with
at day, suggesting to him to withdraw
resolution of the view
a submitting to the house the
any le lord, the member for Tiverton,
and if he wanted
litilsiteification for putting his ques-
tion, he would find in
otcourse of that discussion, be-
cause a large proportion
minent members in the
houseusual leaders, and pro-
better to adopt the resolution of,
thdeeelared it would be
mneoblbe lord. (Cries
(LouTi eel-. for London
ic No, no.") The noble lord the
was in favour of such a course.
of
no.") It was adopted in substance by thrlees " No,
baronet the member for Carlisle. (Renewel,iight hon.
" No, no.") The noble lord below him, the memberri_bte_on
Tiverton, was in its favour, and so was the • for
gentleman the member for the University efgoxiflord:
and the Chancellor of the Exchequer assented to it,
with the addition of some words, on which his honour-
able friends near him laid so much stress. He (Sir W..
Clay) thought it strange to be asked why,,,after this
almost universal assent—(cries of "No,
no )—why it
was he put that question to his hon friend. He would
tell him why.
• He objected to his motion, because he
believed it can't have the effect which he supposed it
would have, and because in addition to his declaration,
which he was willing to make even in stronger terms, it
insisted on adopting language to which the party oppo-
site could not be expected to submit. It was because he
'wished to have the unanimous consent of the House of
Commons, and that he believed differences of opinion
wouldinflame instead of allaying animosities, and alien-
ate, instead of uniting, the friends of those great
prin-
eiPleey that he wished his hog. friend to withdraw his