The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-12 00:00:00

SATURDAY
THE SUN, LONDON,

rnittee, though he was not quite sure whether it had
been mentioned in their repoet.t
Votes of 7831, for reptirieg the Ambassador's house
at Madrid, of 1,595/, for she arrears of the late Earl of
Shaftesbury 's pension due at the time of his death, and
of 4,0001. for improving the navigation of the Menai
Straits, were also egreed to.
On the motion that 100;0001, be vote for civil Call-
tingoncie3,
Mr. ANSTEY rose to object to the following items:—
The expense incurred by the Bishop of Bar'oedoes in his
visitation to the islands of St. Vincent and St. Lucia,
32/. ss. 10d.; the expense, incurred by the Bishop of
Antigua, for passages on his visitation to several
islands within his diocese, 421. Bs. 4d.; the ex-
pence incurred by the Bishop of Newfoundland on
account of a passage from Newfoundland to Bermuda,
on visiting that part of his dioe,ese, 60/a the expense
incurred by the Rtv. H. M. Blaltiston, ou account of his
p Issage to Conetantinople, on his appt
place, 501.; for
oiuterhat as chop-
lain to her Kejesty's embassy at te a
the entertainment of the Bishop of Victoria, on several
occasions,
while visiting the consular cities in China, on
board her Majesty's steam sloop Reytiaed, 92/. 10s.
After a few observations the Hon. Gentleman moved to
reduce the vote by these items.
Sir J. PAKINGTON eeid it appeared to him that the
introduction of the word " bishop" into a vote was suffi-
cient to induce the lion. Gentleman to oppose the vote.
The question, however, which the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had just been discussing was not new, it had
been frequently debated, and the result of ail the discus-
sion was the approve! of the vote on the part of the
Legislature.
Mr. HUME thought the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
who had introduced this discussion had done nothing but
his duty. It might be unjust to call upon the bishop
to pay these expenses out of his own pocket, but it was
still more unjust to require the country to pay them.
The fact was, the time had come when they ought to
have acme settled principles upon which all these ec-
clesiastical charges should be made upon the public ex-
chequer, and he for one should be always ready to oppose
these votes for ecclesiastical purposes in the colonies.
The Church possessed a property of more than 600,0001.
in value, and yet last night they were called upon to
vote 38,0001 for its assistance. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman deserved great credit for introducing this sub-
ject, and he should certainly vote with him if he pro-
posed any reduction of the estimate.
Mr. ANSTEY said ho should move that the estimate
be reduced by 3001.
Colonel SIBTHORP was quite G 3 willing to recom-
mend economy as the Hon. Member for Youghal, or the
Hon. Member for Montrose, but it appeared to him that
the opposition of the Hon. and Learned Member for
Youghal was not so much directed against the
vote as the Established Church, and as he for one could
not allow the establishment to be attacked in this manner
he should certainly resist the amendment. He was
nevertheless an advocate of legitimate economy, and as
he could be no party to the Groat Exhibition rolsbery,
he should move to omit the SIM of 1,5051. 7s. 6d. for
salaries of secretaries, clerks, and messengers for the
Commission for the promotion of the Exhibition of the
Works of Iteluttry of all Nations.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS moved a further reduction of the
vote by 1,570/.
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON said this complication of
amendments would lead to great confusion, and he would
suggest that they should be taken separately.
Sir GEORGE PECHELL hoped this was the last
time they should hear of such an estimate as this, and
hoped if it was required next year it would be paid out
of the Secret Service,hey.
Lord DUDLEY STUART objected to saddling the
country with the expenses of this estimate.
After a few words from Mr. Hamilton, Mr. W. Wil-
liams, and Mr. Heyworth,
Mr. ANSTEY sad, to save one division, he would add
his reduction of 3001 to that of the Hon. Member for
Lambeth, who concurred in the fission of the two
amendments.
The CHAIRHAN said the larger reduction, which
was that of the Hon. Member for Lambeth, would have
to be put first.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment of Mr. Williams 40
Against it 97
Majority egainat it ••• —57

doubtful if it could be nominated? and at that late
period of the sossion it was desirable that no time should
be to-,t.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. would
be extremely glad if he could fAcilitaT,e the inquiry that
had baen ordered by the House; and if ht cJuld learn
from the Hon. Gentleman then, or i❑ the course of the
evening, that there was any proFict of proposing a
Committee, the nomination of which would not lead to
a protracted discussion, he would certainly do what ho
could to suit hia wishes. At present he could not take
upon himself the responsibility of allowing a question,
which would apparently lead to a long discussion, to
interfere with the progress of public business. Both
the morning and evening sittings were at the present
moment apportioned to very important business; and,
althougn he was ready to accede to the suggestion of
the Hen. Gentleman, provided ho was assured that
there would be no delay, still until there was some es-
surance or certainty of such a result, he could not take
the responsibility of permitting the nomination of a
Committee which would unduly retard the public bußiness.
IMPROVEUENT OF THE JURISDICTION OF
EQUITY BILL. •

The House then went into Committee on this Bill, Mr.
BERNAL in the chair.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved, pursuant to novice,
to omit clauses 1 to 9 inclusive' contending that it was
not expedient to print the nreliminary documents in a
Chancery wit, and that besides the reduction of expense
that would be thereby attained, it would have the effect
of stopping many Chancery suits in lirnine. He would
move, in the first instance, that clause 1 be omitted.
The ATTORNEY- GENERAL contended that as the
Bill at present stood the expense would be lessened and
the proceedings simplified.
Mr. BETHELL also supported the clause. Under the
former system the preliminary documents were the source
of very great expense, and in many instances before the
defendant knew the offence of which he was charged, he
was put to some hundreds of pounds of expense.
The filing of bills was in that way the source of
a great deal of oppression. The benefit that would
remit from the change proposed by the present
measure was, that the defendant would be informed
at once, and at the commencement of the suit, of the
complaint against him in a manner that would be intelli-
gible to the meanest capacity, and might be able to avoid
the expense of litigation without resorting to professional
aid. By the printing of the preliminary documents much
expense would be saved, instead of any additional costs
being incurred; and, indeed, it would be most desirable
if the plan of the printing the documents was extended
to other stages of the suit.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he bad not been con-
vinced by the arguments of the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman. It was impossible to say that printing was re-
quitite, or would be inexpensive. The object of reduc-
ing the length of bills in Chancery might be otherwise
obtained. H© should negative the clauses.
The clause was then agreed to.
Clause 2 was agreed to, with a verbal amendment in-
serted on the motion of the MASTER of the ROLLS.
On clause 3,
The MASTER of the ROLLS likewise introduced a
verbal amendment, and the clause was agreed to.
Clause 4 was agreed to without alteration.
On clause 5,
The MASTER of the ROLLS moved a verbal
amendment, which was assented to, and the clause
then pessed, as also did clauses 6,7, and 8, without
observadon.
On clause 9, giving the Chancellor power to alter,
modify, or suspend any of the previous provisions of the
measure,
Mr. KEOGH objected that it might neutralise the
measure altogether.
Mr. WALPOLE said as it was an experiment it was
deemed necessary to give the Chancellor power of modi-
ltdrg it.
0?1. acroecul larattui
vsee
be
olrr2e ,cit
surequiringat
rhytehgafihtl
ai
filing
gdn i
aoth:., eat
hbaeibl
ls
ceoonnhc
sobs
ehohtt
a'
hlaff
th
he cruse was agreed to; as were clauses 10 and 11.
near
of an infant,
The MASTER of the ROLLS moved its omission,
stating that it wits often necessary to file a bill at a few
hours' notice.
Mr. WALPOLE admitted that delay might arise in
some instances, but yet thought the provision would be
useful. Some power was required to prevent an impro-
per person from being put in as next friend.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL suggested that it
might be sufficient to require the consent of the Court
within some short time after the filing of the bill.
The MASTER of the ROLLS conceived that this
The House resumed at Six o'clock. might in some measure meet the difficulty.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Mr. BETHELL thought the clause wouldj be at once
On the motionrt of Mr. F. MACKENZIE, it was nugatory and obstructive. It would entail the necessity
agreed that the Louse at its rising, should adjourn until for that most objectionable and onerous proceeding, an
Monday nest,
me pa
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS. proper
application, which was altogether alien from the
proper province of a judicial tribunal.
A messenger from the Lords brought up the follow- Mr. WALPOLE concurred to a great degree in those
ing Bills, to which their Lordships had agreed:— observations, and promised to consider them before the
Apprehension of Deserters from Foreign Ships, report.
Law of Evidence (Scotland). The MASTER of the ROLLS suggested the post-
Stockport and Marple Road. ponement of the clause.
Pcdmore and Rowley Roads. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected.
Stroud and Bieley Road. • Sir J. GRAHAM said this subject had been fully
Macclesfield and Buxton Road. considered by the Commission, and there appeared to be
Kirkby Stephen send Hawes Road. between the retention and rejection of the clause a
Marsden, Lisburne, and Long Preston Roads, with- choice of difficulties. His own opinion, however, was
out amendment. in conformity with that of the Commissioners, that it
Yeovil and Ilehester Turnpike Trusts. ought to be omitted.
South Wales Railway, with amendments. Mr. HENLEY observed that the judges in the Court
PETITIONS. of Chancery were of a different opinion, with the excep-
Mr. THORNELY presented a petition, praying the tion of the Master of the Rolls.
House to take steps to increase the supply of guano to Sir P. WOOD said, as the father was usually dead, all
this country. the children infants, and the mother executrix and an
Sir E. BUXTON presented a petition from a place in accounting party is the suit, the application to the Court
Essex against the Militia Bill. would be necessary in almost every case for the selection
Petitions in favour of an ocean Penny postage were of a " next friend" to institute the suit.
presented by Mr. CuanTenes and by Mr. S. CRAWFORD Mr. WALPOLE ultimately, in deference to the
from Rochdale. opinion of the Commissioners, withdrew the clause.
Mr. ELIOT presented a petition from Gallashiele, Clauses 13, 14, 15, 16, were afterwards agreed to.
praying a Government inspection or nunneries. Oa clause 17,
Mr. OSWALD presented a petition from a place in Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved to insert—" From the
Scotland against the grant to Maynooth. time when this Act shall commence and take effect, all
Captain YIAGAN wished to ask whether it was the special clauses obeli be set down for hearing in the
intention of the Government to bring on the Crime and cause-books kept at the registr's office, and
ts." shall
His
be
Outrage (Ireland) Bill before the adjournment of the inserted in the daily papers of the several cour
House that day? The Right Hon. Gentleman the object was to prevent uncertainty as to the time when
Attorney-General had on that morning at half-past two motions came on.
o'clock, in no very stentorian voice, stated that he in- Mr. WALPOLE said the amendment had nothing
tended to bring it on that day. It did not appear on the practicable in it. The greater number of motions were
order paper, and he wished to know whether it would so eudden, that the papers were not delivered until the
come on? night before the hearing,—( ehr.),
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he The MASTER of the ROLLS said the amendment
it on Tuesday morning.would be most mischievous; it would prevent the judge
proposed takingMß. SMITH O'BRIEN, from taking a motion of the most pressing character out
Mr. V. SCULLY wished to ask a question of the of its order.
Right Hon. Gentlemen the Attorney-General for Ire- Mr. CARTER said under this system
land. On the occasion of the present Government had to chance of bringing on a motion.
a junior counsel
coming into newer it was understood by many ef the The amendment was negatived without a division.
friends of Mr. Smith O'Brien in Ireland, that if a pro- Clauses
18 to 25 inclusive were agreed to.
perly-worded memorial was prepared, the present Go- On clause 26. M
vernment would be disposed to mitigate the sentence The AS PER of the ROLLS said that this and the
passed upon that unfortunate gentleman. It was, indeed, 28th clause threw a very great deal of additional duty on
stated that the Government wished such a memorial to the ex,miners of the Court of Chancery, thoug
be presented. Hwe wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentles certainly was an improvement in tho pas ractice of t Bhill
e
provision
h the
man, and he hoped he would have a fair and frank court, while at the same time there no
answer, whether he had not revised the memorial, mace for a fur remuneration for the extra services im-
whether he had not corrected it, and whether he had posed upon these officers,
not stated that it should receive his support? Mr. WALPOLE said, however just the complaint of
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND (Mr. his Hon. and Learned Friend might be, nothing could
Napier) would state all the facts connected with the be done in the matter at present. It certainly did seem
memorial. He and his Right Hon. Friend the Solicitor- not to be quite fair to increase the work without in-
General were counsel for Mr. Smith O'Brien. The creasing the salaries. At the present time the chief clerk
Solicitor- General acted for him at the trial, and be him- had 2001. a year more than the examiners, which was
sell had been counsel before the House of Lords and bad anomaly.
presented a petition in his behalf after he had been The clause was then agreed to.
sentenced to transpomation. He was also on terms of Clauses 27 to 29 were also agreed to after a short con-
great intimacy with many of his friends and relations, versetion on the latter respecting the conduct of
which
particularly his his brother, the Rev. W. O'Brien, and the roissioners for taking evidence in the country, in
Hon. Baronet the Member for Clare was also one of his hope was expressed by Sir J. GRAHAM that local and
intimate friends. After the present Government came county courts would be made available for that purpose.
into power the friends of Mr. O'Brien waited upon him In clause 30, which related to the mode in which the
entirely in the capacity of a private friend, to consult evidence of witnesses should be taken before the exa-
with him whether anything could be done in the way of miners,
a mitigation of puniehment. The conversation was en- The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, in answer to a re-
tirely confidential and private, but he distinctly stated mark of Mr. C. Villiers, said that the clause provided
that he could take no part whatever in his official cepa- that the examiner should take a narrative of the evidence,
city, as it was impossible the Government could do any- and that the witness should sign it.
thing, as it would be at once set down as being done for The SOLICITOR-GENERAL, to meet certain ohjec-
political purposes and electioneering considerations. Ho tions, proposed to insert words which would prevent the
had never taken upon himself to state what the Govern- proceedings being rendered invalid in Case the witness
meat would do on the subject. All his communications refused to sign the narrative.
were simply those of a private friend, and arising out of The MAS TER of the ROLLS said the narrative
tho sympathy he entertained for the friends and rela- would be of no value unless signed by the witness,
fives of Mr. O'Brien. He never did bold out, nor and unless ho signed it he could not be indicted for
was he aware that any person on the part of the Go- perjury.
vernment ever held our, any intimation or any hope as The amendment of the Solicitor-General was with-
to what the Government would do, nor had he directly or drawn, and the consideration of it postponed till the
indirectly pledged himself that the Government would report.
attend to Any memorial that might be got up. He trusted Mr. C. VILLIERS said that before the clause was
that explanation would be satisteetery.—(Hear, hear.) agreed to he wished to point out that the proposed
DIPLOMATIC SERVICE. mode of asking the evidence would open a door for
Mr. EWART begged to ask the Under-Secretary of great delay and expense, and would lead to the some
gg
State for Foreign Ameirs whether any measures have results as the present system of taking evidence by the
bven adopted for the examination of candidates for ap- Mastar3.
pointment and promotion in the diplomatic service in the The clause was then agree.d to, as also were clauses
country; and whether there will be any objection to lay down to 58.
bolero the House a return explanatory of such measures, On clause 59,
as has been done in the case of the different revenue The MASTER of the ROLLS said it appeared to
boards, the navy, the marine, and more lately (by the him that this clause did not come within the scope of
Duke of Wellington) in the case of examinations of the Bill. It appeared to him that each court should bo
candidates for the army? able to execute justice by means of the functions and
Lord STANLEY, who was indistinctly heard in the powers possessed by itself, and without resorting to any
say that no sach returns were in ex- other court.--(Hear.) Now, the present clause, so far
t
proposed. Instructions had been from conferring that power, only extended the existing
gallery,
or couhltal had
beenly -
sent to the Government agents abroad to collect infer- evil of appeals from equity to law courts, and he was
metier), as they mere anxious in the first place to aster- therefore opposed to it. He hoped it would not be per-
tain what was the practice in other countries. When severed with.—(Hear.)
that information was obtainetmnto. they hoped to be able to The SOLICITOR GENERAL admitted that the
schemeim had clause did not come within the ecope of the Bill, and
cotils,ielented, therefore, to its omission.
device some plan, but
been prepared;eassurYeewas one of soemuch
er, thegal:l.e sure the Hon. Grntlemanpoarntd-
anceett"' he '''''"
"I
i with him that no-steps ought clauses, helaavuisnag bweaesn tala;,rneesdtrtuh,ck out, and the remaining
„ That d were inserted in the beefily or without
full consideration. lie ,
the MASTER of the ROLLS brought
to be taken ,
jection on the ground that a merelsyha
" the Hon. Gentlemen amore de• following clauses,which • ,
eußeiltlh:Ltwo
could riot at present give
ll 1 1
o be e
lawful open
declaratory
decree
sr
cotr
hbe
ee-
the House would agree .
- no sin. in the said court
finite answer. e
uested b the or order is sou' hhtihthdereby, and it shad
Mr no RS.MCAHNiill.cjidEl "Igt,'he University court to makeg
Right on.
Gentleman the Memberfor . ,
.., ing
.declarations of right without
intment of the granting consequential relief."
to Clealmery,iin anyt cause or matter depending in the same
'he Rev. Mr. " That it shall not he
Conan •' • -i:_tutton ot t ,
ot Oxford that whi,a he rtitiDovhi-(aS:lCtlbhPeeeLitllipNpEo.
-, ii,tee in the case of the in.lawful for the said Court of
Bennett to the vicsrage of Froral it l',°'7'd be
!hop"'
lay on the tame the heads of the allegations, and tha Court, tof direct a case to be stated for the opinion of any
Right Hon, Gentle
this was accordin,:la aerideci
rcd the' I.'
could not give iiii; Ri,l-,tr,criednentc•
„iti(,rian an answer, law which, in the judgment of the said Court of Chan-
but he wee pre- : eery, shall he necessary to be decided previously to the
but he had since coated,
at ter, tt , , _ti,,aia 1 decision of the equitable question at issue between the
d now to say that if the Rn 2
pale
the .louse gat. Hon. Mee ' , , mee
(mulct satisfy zaouse that what he proposed was la Md. ---•
conformity with precedent ho wouldl btm ohe wish of Tee Bill was then reported, with amendments, to the
the House, ttad cumPla' with his suggestion. : t He begged 1 Hono. _
to eek the Right Hon. Gentl,mans Chancellor the 1 MASTERS IN CHANCERY ABOLITION BILL.
of i
Exchequer whether he would allow him to nominate The Houso went into Committee upon this Bill.
the Committee either in the mornine, • • 1 On clatiie 1, which provides for the abolition of the
, . , sitting of Monday,
or at the afternoon sitting, DoCCUSC other Wise it would ', masters,
not come on till after the other orders, when it was I The MASTER of the ROLLS moved the insertion

The amendment was accordingly lost.
The CHAIRMAN was then directed to report progress,
and the House having resumed, be did so accordingly.
The remaining twelve o'clock orders were next cis-
posed of, and Four o'clock having arrived, the House rose.