The Sun.
London, England, 1864-03-01 00:00:00

THE WAR DEPARTMENT.

Mr. VANCE asked what provision was to be made for
the civil assistant in the ordnance survey branch of the War
Department whose services were dispensed with on the Ist
of November last ?

Mr. PEEL said a small reduction had been made?

IRELAND.

Col. GREVILLE asked whether it was the intention of
the Government to separate the county Meath from the
Ungar District Lunatic Asylum, which affords ample accom •
moda.tion for the dangerous lunatics of the three counties ;
and, if 403 'whether the whole burden of its support would
be imposed upon the counties of Westmeath and Longford ?
Sir R, PEEL said the question had been under the con-
sideration. of Government.
THE DANISH GOVERNMENT.
Mr. DALGLISLI asked, adverting to the statement that
a steamer, plated with 4i-inch armour from stem to stern,
was launched on Wednesday from the yard of the builders
of the Pamper°, and said to be the property of the Danish
Government, whether, if such shouldprove to be the case,
the Government would seize her, as they had seized the
Pampero, or would permit her to sail from the Clyde ?
Mr. LA.YARD said that the Danish Minister had givel
notice to the Government of the building of the ship, and
had suggested that the construction might of necessi be
stopped ; but Lord Palmerston had consented thatythe
vessel might be taken off tko stocks, provided she did
not leave the country, and that arrangement had been made.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
Sir W. MILES (for Colonel W. Patten) asked the Pre-
sident of the Board of Trade whether he intended to pro-
ceed with his bills for the amendment of the private busi-
ness of the house, so as to enable parties to take:advantage
of them during the present session ; and whether the Par-
liamentary bar had made any communication to him with
respect to a change in the system of counsel's fees?
Mr. GIBSON stated that lie had received a statement
from certain influential members of the Parliamentary bar,
proposing a scale of fees.
Mr. HADFIELD inquired whether, if the Parliamentary
bar did not settle the matter, the Government would take
it in hand.
Mr. GIBSON thought it would be mach better to leave
the matter in the hands of the bar.

THE BUDGET.
Mr. GODDARD asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether he was at present able to inform the house on
what day before Easter he wouid make his financial state-
ment ?

Sir G. GREY said the financial statement would be
made immediately after Easter. The day would be stated
to-morrow.

MR. STANSFELD.
Mr. COX—I have to put a question to the hon. member
for Halifax (Mr. Stanafeld). 1 beg to ask him whether his
attention has been called to what has taken place in Paris
during the recent trial, and to what fell from the Crown
prosecutor upon that occasion. The Crown prosecutor is reported to have used these words ;_►4 If Greco wanted

I money he was to apply to the address, 'M. Flower,
35, Thurloe-square, Brompton, He (the procureur)
had referred to the London Commercial Ilirectory
to discover the person, who was thus place I in (corre-
spondence with Greco. At page 670 he fount—and it was
in sorrow that he found it—the name of a member of the
English Parliament, who already in 18.)7 had been ap-
pointed by Mazzini treasurer to the Tibaldi plot, which was
concocted against the life of the Emperor." I have myself
referred to this address in the "London Directory," and I
find it is the residence of the hon, member for Halifax, and
therefore I desire to ask him whether his attention has been
called to those words ?
Mr. STANSFELD—I am much indebted to my hon.
frind for having enabled me to answer at once this question.
My attention was directed this morning to the speech of the
Procureur-Imperial, and I must say that the astonishment
with which I read that speech was mingled with something
of a stronger feeling. It appears to me that for the Crown
prosecutor of a friendly Power to imagine in the first place,
and in the second place to venture to insinuate, that one
who has the honour of a seat in the British House of Com-
mons, and, however unworthily, happens to occupy the po-
sition of a Minister of the Crown—that he could, directly
or indirectly, have ever participated in, or even have been
conscious of any supposed implication in, an attempt which
if serious, must excite the execration of mankind—(hear,
hear)—it appears to me that such a statement is sufficient
not only to excite in me feelings of indignation, but also of
disgust. (Hear, hear.) I trust it is quite unnecessary—in
fact, I should feel it an indignity to be called upon to do so
—to plead to such an indictment; and to declare in this
house that I share the feelings of all decent meu with regard
to attempts of this kind, and as to which there can be but•
one opinion. Bnt if there be to me some counter-satisfaction
in the indignity of such a supposition, it is this, that I am
given the opportunity from this place to bear my testimony
to the character of a man who all who know me are aware
that I have known for some 18 years, and than whom I
have never known—l have never heard or read of—a man
who has been more molly and more shamefully maligned.
(Hear, hear.) I speak, as I have said, from an intimate
personal knowledge of nearly 18 years, and I have yet to
learn that that knowledge and the conviction which it pro-
daces will not have some effect upon the mind of the public
and upon this house. (An HoN. MEMBER—Name, name.)
I say as to M. Mazzini, whose name has been associated with
this attempt, I pledge my personal knowledge of him that he
is absolutely incapable of having a hand in it. (Hear.) I
will go further. It is impossible I could have read the extract
which my hon. friend has laid before the house, without
having occupied the time which has intervened since in
making some inquiries as to how such an insinuation could
have been made. I have made inquiries, and I have satis-
fied my own mind ; although I will not anticipate declara-
tions which it is the right of others to make in the first place.
Still I have satisfied my own mind that when the case comes
to be fairly tried the answer will be complete and satisfac-
tory in every respect. (Cheers.)
Mr. HENNESSY—I think it is somewhat unfortunate
(cries of " Order")—l shall conclude with a motion. The
house must feel that the hon. gentleman was entitled to the
fullest latitude in all that he said with respect to himself;
but the hon. gentleman has introduced other topics not
personal to himself, which should be placed before the public
in their true colours. Reference has been made to M.
Mazzini, and I wish to say at once that in the opinion of
many hon. members it is unfortunate that the character of
that gentleman should be brought before this house without
notice, at a time when no one expected it, and in presence
of the fact that the language used by Mazzini himself,
within the last few weeks, leads every man who reads it to
believe that grave suspicion attaches to him. What has
been recently written ? Greco was arrested in France for
an attempt upon the life of the Emperor, and M. Mazzini
writes to the newspapers and calls Greco an enthusiastic
patriot, and admits that he was in personal communication
with him last year, I put it to the /muse, is Greco an
enthusiasticlpatriet ? What is the theory of those who hold
that Greco and his accomplices were the instruments of the
French police ? They allege that Greco was a spy. (Hear.)
The hen. member for Brighton (Mr. White) says yes, Yet
M. Mazzini calls this Greco an enthusiastic patriot. I will
not now enter into the question, as it is not denied by the
lion, gentleman whether M, Mazzini is living at the address
designated by the writer of the letter to Greco. I would ask
if money was collected, but I will not say for what pur-
pose.

Mr. STANSFELD—I beg the hon. gentleman's pardon.
Sir G. GREY—Wait until he has done.
Mr. HENNESSY—These are facts which have not been
denied, and which are most material to the people of this
country, namely, whether money was collected, as an hon.
friend near me suggests, under a false name. These are
matters of interest to us who are here the representatives, I
am happy to say, of a country in friendly alliance with
France; and if attempts of this kind are to be made—l
I know it is said by the friends of this person that in truth
Mazzini never attempted to murder the Emperor of the
French, and that his sole object was to terrify him and to
keep him in terror—does anybody believe that is a defence
which this country will tolerate ? Mazzini believes the cause
he serves is to be benefited by keeping the Emperor of the
French in terror; but, sir, in doing that he renders himself
responsible for the acts of his subordinate associates, and I
venture to think that in this country and in this house this
conduct will meet with universal reprobation. (Hear, hear.)
I beg to move the adjournment of the house.
Mr. COX—I bog to second the motion, and perhaps I
may be permitted to say I hardly expected my kon. friend
the member for Halifax would, in answer to my question,
have gone into a defence. (Hear, hear.) What I desired
ta hear froin my hon. friend was some explanation of the
charge made against him.
aions (Hear, hear.) He used expres-
perfectly justified by the occasion of the horror and
disgust which he and every man in this house must feel at
being charged as an accomplice in such an attempt as this.
(Hear, hear.) But my hon. friend did not give me or the
house any explanation as to this Mr. Flower, who resides
at 35, Thurloe-square, Brampton, which is the result of a
search of the "London Directory" by the French Procu-
reur. But I, too, have searched the " London Directory,"
and I find that this 35, Thurloe-square is also the address
of my hon. friend the member for Halifax (Mr. Stansfeld).
I rise now to second this motion, for the purpose of giving
him an opportunity of explaining that, which seems to have
been forgotten; and I am quite sure he will be able to give
a most satisfactory reply.
Mr. STANSFELD—I hardly understood, I must say
that my hon. friend was desirous of any explanation from
me on the specific point to which he has referred, He has
searched the directory, and he has been enabled to ascertain
a fact that was easily ascertained, namely, my address. My
address is 35, flaurloe-square. As to a letter stated to have
been addressed to Mr. Flower, I understand my hon, friend
wishes to know if I have any knowledge of that letter. Now,
I have already stated in general terms—general, because I
wished them to apply to one and all the accusations—that
I have not, and never have had—and it seems almost too
great an indignity to answer such a question—the slightest
knowledge of proceedings of that kind ; and I will add—for
I think 1 are entitled to add—that I have not the belief in
them which some honourable gentlemen seem to entertain.
(Hear, hear.) I have been blamed by the hon. member for
King's County for having taken the opportunity of defending
the character of Mazzini. I had two reasons for the course.
The ono is that my name has been implicated in this
transaction, and the other is that I think I am entitled to;
and I should be shrinking from the duties of private friend-
ship if I had not taken this opportunity of testifying what
is not only any conviction but my knowledge of his charac-
ter. (Hear, hear) What is the question ?
An HON. MEMBER—Who's Flower ?
Mr. HENNESSY—I ask whether, in truth, this M.
Flower is M. Mazzini. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. STANSFELD—I have no knowledge. 1 know
nothing about M, Flower. (Hear, hear.) Did the hon.
gentleman ask any questions as to the collection of money ?
If he did, will he repeat it ?
Mr. HENNESSY—I think I asked the hon. member
whether he at any time acted as treasurer or member of the
committee for the collection of any money to be distributed
among the Italian patriots ? (Cries of " Oh, oh I" " Mon-
strous "Nonsense," and " Don't answer.")
Mr. STANSFELD—WeII, I will answer the house,
Undoubtedly not.

Lord C. HAMILTON—WiII the hon. gentleman answer
the question ? Is Signor Fuori a friend of the hon. gentle-
man, and is he frequently at that address? (Cries of
" Oh.")

Mr. W. E. FORSTER—I do not rise to prolong this
l
discussion, but I think when it is read tomorrow,
different
containst will
be
-
quite sure my hon. friend the member.ta put for
tollhatlmifaxhas
answered all the questions that have b
affect-
ing hi
himself in I
merely rise for the purpose of saying that
in a manner that will be fully satisfactory to
the country.
the hon. member for King's County (Mr. H ennessy) stated,
as though it were an acknowledged fact and admitted by
isfi
for a rLt
the i
purposehimself,
thatf
assassinating although
thhee
him,
,pneorte
r o
f enterth
e into plotFrench,s
Now perhaps the
he did for the purpose of terrifying
lato°llstagtenfotirentitiannl'wahs
he made that
Mazzini ever made
why he
cannot state himself, iamesseerlft,towni,llegnedt
wahferitehnedr
I do not believe
Mazzini admitted it,
ttzzaiensie,r
It i °wne'uandwould
t takeknowledgeandl
inhavheelotfefMte.
that he has nothing whatever to do with such plotys for any
tat; e
as true;
purpose whatever. (Hear, hear.)
mhtethdeenlit
Mr. Alderman ROSE—The question which the house would like to have answered is this, has M. Mazzini ever
lived with the hon. gentleman ? (Cries of " Oh, oh,"
" Don't
should ha answer," and loud laughter.) It ie right the house
ve that I am question answered. (Cries of "No, no.'')
quite sure it is supplsed that he eithe- lodged there or
lived some time in the house. Will the hon. gentleman
answer that ? (Cries of "Don't answer.' )
A few words from Mr. IVILLIA.IiS were i
THE STATE OF EUR ndistinctly heard.
Mr. DISRAELL—As there is now aOPE. question before the
house, I take this opportunity of making some inquiry re-
specting our relations with the Continent of Europe. (Rear.)
They appear to me, since I last addressed a questi to the
Government on the subject, to have increased innity
and perplexity. (Hear, hear.) I understand that her
Majesty's Government have been successful, after some
fruitless efforts, in a new proposition—namel, that a Cn-
ference should b© held by the great Py o
ow s, and those in.