The Sun.
London, England, 1852-10-07 00:00:00

THURSDAY EVENING,

' PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
On Thursday night a public meeting of the cit
zens, convened by the Council of the Glasgow Par
liamentary Reform Association, was held in the
Trades Hall, Glassford-street, Glasgow, which was
crowded to overflowing by an audience composed
chicfly of the working classes. James Turner, Esq.,
of Thrushgrove, was unanimously called to the
chair. Among the gentlemen on the platform were
Mr. Macgregor, M.P. for the city; Mr. J. W.
M'Gregor, Councillor Moir, and Messrs. A. Paton,
Govan, jun., A. C. Morrison, W. Ross, J. and
W. Macadam, B. Buchanan, W. C. Pattison, &c.
The CHAIRMAN said that they bad expected that
Sir James Anderson, M.P. for the Stirling Burghs,
would have been present, but he had not made his ap-
pearance, and whether or not he would make his
appearance he could not say, but he was happy to see
their old friend Mr. M'Gregor present.—(Cheers.)
They had received a letter from Mr. Hastie, stating
that, owing to his having to go from home, he could
not be present. The chairman concluded by call-
ing on
Mr. PATTIBON, who read the letter from Mr.
Hastie, M.P., which is as follows :
" Pennieuick, Sept. 30, 1852.
" My char Sir,—Owing to an engagement in this
quarter previous to being aware of the intended meet-
ing of the Parliamentary Reform Association, it will he
out of toy power to be present this evening. I highly
approve of your meeting to give expression to what I
now believe to be the very general desire of the liberal
constituencies—an extension of the suffrage, and an im-
provement in the mode of obtaining the franchise.
" Yours faithfully,
" ALEX, HASTIE."
Mr. GOVAN said that the resolution entrusted to
him was as follows :—" That it is the opinion of this
meeting, that no Government is entitled to the confi-
dence of the people of this country that is not pre-
pared to bring forward a measure of Parliamentary
Reform to the extent of the programme submitted by
the Glasgow Parliamentary Reform Association, em-
bracing household suffrage, vote by ballot, equal elec-
toral districts, triennial Parliaments, and no property
qualification." In general, this motion referred to
the House of Commons, and to a reform of that
House. All knew that that House was one of the
three branches of the British Legislature, and
that it was invested with the greatest power, in-
asmuch as it could bring, when it pleased, the entire
machinery of the Government to a dead lock by with-
holding the supplies—(Hear, hear)—and in many a
contest between the different branches of the Legis-
lature, all had yielded to the will of the House of
Commons. This formidable power had been some-
times called the people's House, on the theory that
it consisted of the representatives of the people of this
country, who were chosen to carry on the affairs of
the Government, and promote the interests and pros-
perity of the country. As representatives of the
people they ought to consult the people's wishes, and
give a prompt expression of them to the Government.
If they did not do so they might be regarded as a
body without a soul. Now the question arose, who
were the people ? If they looked to the Members of
the House of Commons they were apt to form an un-
just conception of who the people were, for they
found in that House the nominees of lords, landlords,
and of priests, perhaps, and Government officials by
scores, but no one need be told that none of these
were the people ; but they might be told that, accord-
ing to the present system, the people of this country
were the 101. householders—so that those who did not
pay 101. of rent might work hard and do a great deal
to promote the interests of the country, and yet not
be ",the people." According to the present system,
only about 1 in 2T was entitled to be called one of the
people, or 1 in 6 of the adult male population. They
were not satisfied with this, as the other five were as
much entitled to the franchise as the one. The mo-
tion demanded household suffrage, which would be a
great improvement on the present system. According
to last census, there was upwards of 4,000,000 inha-
bited houses in the country, which would give them
four to one of the present electors, which would be a
great advance, although not all that could be wished.
Until some better system was devised, they thought
themselves justified in asking for a system of secret
voting, to prevent the electors from being intimidated.
There was also an unequal distribution of the fran-
chise. Mr. Cobden, the other day, said that in the
House of Commons 100 Members represented con-
stituencies whose aggregate numbers did not in all
amount to the one he had the honour to represent.
The franchise was so unequally distributed, that while
one burgh with only eighty electors returned a Mem-
ber, another with 5,000 of a constituency only did the
same. Now, had they a fairer representation they
would have a fairer expression of the people's
opinion in Parliament. In reference to the militia, it
was a fact that the representation of the majority was
out-voted by the minority. He next came to trien-
nial Parliaments. They found at present that it was
only when the seven years was drawing to a close that
members began to think about their constituents. He
maintained that Members of Parliament were the
servants of the people, and in all domestic concerns,
and in every other capacity, they asked to have some
hold over their servants, so that they would not dare
to act against the convictions of their constituents, and
in triennial Parliaments they certainly would have a
better hold over Members of Parliament than in sep-
tennial ones. He also maintained that the choice of a
representative should not be fettered by any such
condition as that of a property qualification. He
concluded by saying that the franchise was the peo-
ple's right, and that they must continue to agitate
until they got it, and then freedom would sit on the
people's brow—the crown and emblem of their sove-
reignty, and the insignia of their unquestionable
power.--(Cheers.)
Mr.W. M'Apem seconded the resolution, which was
carried by acclamation.
Mr. MACGREGOR, M.P., who on rising was loudly
cheered, said—My friends, electors, and non-electors
of the city of Glasgow, in addressing you in the
terms of electors and non-electors, I am proud to say
that I was the first to take it upon myself to address
you under the head of " Electors and non-electors ;"
but I End that since that period more than fifty mem-
bers of Parliament have addressed the constituencies
for which they have been elected in the terms in which
I thought it my duty to address you. Far would it
be from my feelings—far would it be from my con-
victions of justice—to address the citimens of Glas-
gow, electors and non-electors, believing that the
non-electors have a right to be represented in Parlia-
ment according to the great maxim that was laid
down long ago, and under which was held
our liberties—that no man should pay any
tax to the Government or to the Crown,
unless he had a voice empowering by
representation that taxation. It was brought forward
in the Magna Charts, was laid down as one of the
great principles of the Bill of Rights, and it has since
been admitted even by Clarendon, the most courtly of
historians, and maintained by the greatest of the
Pitts, that " taxation without representation was
tyranny."—(Cheers.) It is upon these great consti-
tutional grounds that I support the resolution that
has been submitted to you, and which you have most
unanimously and most creditably to yourselves
adopted.—(Great cheering.) Did Scotland and the
great constituencies of this country pursue the same
course, then you would all, in spite of everything
that has been said against democracy, succeed. We
have heard a great deal about that word democracy,
and the dangerous tendencies of democracy in this
country. I am not the enemy of the aristocracy as
such, nor of any party that is friendly and faithful
to true national interests. For my own part, I tell
you most distinctly, that if the present Government
will bring forward a comprehensive plan of Pa:rlia-
mentary reform, although they call themselves To ries,
I will support them.—(Hear.) If they do not, I will
oppose them in every possible way in which I can—not
as a demagogue, remember—(Hear and laughter)--but
as a`democrat. There is a wide difference betre em a
democrat and a demagogue— a democrat is on, e of
the people. Democracy is not well understood, be-
cause it is confounded with the word demagogue ;
but democracy properly understood is the n lost
sound, most constitutional, and most healthy of all the
denominations that, under Providence, possibly de (ells
upon the earth. We borrow it from an old G reek
word, " Demos," which means " the people." I have
always said I was a man of the people ; that I wa e, one
of the "demos," and consequently I am a demc,crat.
Now, when I hear people speaking against demos. racy
I want to know what they that have opposed demo-
cracy, and who spurn us, the people, have done ; and
I put the question to myself, what has demon racy
done ? Now, I wish to explain that word to yot t be-
cause a great deal of evil goes forth in reference to
the word without explanation. Democracy tr. leans
all those engaged in industrious pursuits, whether
in science or labour, in tilling the gro and,
in digging the ditches—whether as r ner-
chants, manufacturers, or navigators—whether
they are engaged in mechanical operat one,
or whether they are those ingenious men who ' (lave
made the discoveries of those powers which God has
given to the intellect and hand of man, to exercif e in
great and good works, and I put the question to my-
self, what have they done ? In the first place , de-
mocracy were the inventors of and discovered e very.:
thing connected with agriculture, manufacture! !, and
navigation. Columbus discovered America , and
Vasco di Game discovered the new route round the
world. Who have constructed our ships and canals?
It was the democracy. But I come back to yo„erdown
river Clyde. Who have deepened it and mi 3. e
navigable up to the Broomielaw ? It was e de-
mocracy. Who opened up the mineral richeth a
be-
tween the Forth and Clyde, and to bring forth your
coal and iron ? It was democracy, and I defy those
who oppose you to say anything to the con trary.
Who built the great steam ships that bridi ;.e the
Atlantic ? The democracy. Who are constr, acting
your iron ships on the banks of the Clyr' ie ? It
is the democracy. Who were they t bat in-
vented printing, the steam-engine, VIV power..

Iloom, cut the canals through the kinzdom, constructed
your docks, railways, built your cities, and brought
your cotton, cloth, and iron manufactures to such
perfection ? It was the democracy. Who have made
your fashionable attires in cotton, and silk, and wool ?
It has been the democracy. From what did we derive
all the power of a nation, and enabled the Govern-
ment to tax a people, and to exhibit the grandeur of
princes and of kings ? Was it not from the labour
of the democracy ?—(Loud cheers.) Now, I want
the people to know their own power, not for the pur-
pose of disturbing the public peace—but for maintain-
ing and strengthening that great democratic element
which happily dwells amongst us, both by tradition
and sentiment, ay, and by partiality too. I have said
I will support the present Government, if they will
support those great democratic principles
,to which
the word demagogue is not applicable. And
yet there is a class, there are certain great
men—aristocrats—who call the mere men of

the democracy, the men of the people, dema
gogues and destructives. Never was there such
a great delusion and satire. I am sorry to say that
in the history of Scotland there has not been such
progress in democracy as in England. In England,
when the Magna Charta was extorted from King
John, the aristocracy and the clergy were in the as-
cendancy, the great multitude of the people were serfs,
or the few men who were possessed of large landed
properties were dominant, and the nation was in ser-
vitude, but no sooner did the people become free than
from time to time they struggled until they got the
Bill of Rights forced by the long Parliament from
Charles 1., the Habeas Corpus Act from Charles 11.,
and the declaration of rights to which William the
Third was compelled to accede in 1688, when he re-
cognised the great principle that the people should
not be taxed without being represented. I know the
details may be rather tedious, but I hope you will
bear with me.—(Renewed cheers.) In the year 1830
the whole of Scotland was a great rotten borough,
and I am sorry to say that looking at Scotland
from the annexation, from the union of the two
countries under one Crown in 1707, we did not
secure those rights which we ought to have done.
—(Hear, hear.) Formerly we allowed the Par-
liament of England to tyrannise over us, and we
had ministers who gave our countrymen situations
in India, and thus bribed our members and leading
men into submission. Fortunately we are now in a
different position—we will assert those rights which
essentially belong to us. We are not fairly repre-
sented ; and it gives me the greatest possible pain
that we are not justly represented. We are not pro-
perly represented in Parliament, neither are we re-
presented in the Government of England. Ireland
has a Lord-Lieutenant, and a Secretary of State,
who has the same salary as the Prime Minister-
-1 6,0001. a year. Now, I don't want a Lord-Lieute-
nant for Scotland, but I want a Secretary of State
for Scotland, who should take cognisance of all the
circumstances connected with Scotland, and who
should hold office near the Crown, so that we may
be properly represented in the Government. True,
we have a Lord Advocate in the Parliament House of
Edinburgh, who spends his time there, taking his
fees, when he ought to be watching the affairs of
Scotland in the Parliament at Westminster.—
(Hear, hear.) I find that there are 67 burghs in
England that have exactly the same population as
twice that of the Grorbals, and these send DU Mem-
bers to Parliament, each of whom has as much power in
the House of Commons as each of the Members for
Glasgow, and I say that it is, therefore, the more ne-
cessary that the resolution proposed to you to-night
should lay down, as it has done, that no Ministry will
have the confidence of this country if they do not
bring forward a great measure of Parliamentary Re-
form. I have now spoken in a decisive and frank
manner, and I trust what I have stated will be cor-
rectly reported. Among other grievances, the county
courts are really in a most imperfect state in Scotland.
In England tho county courts give cheap and imme-
diate adjudication on matters of great moment, but in
Scotland such adjudication frequently amounts to much
more than even a denial of justice. This is a matter
requiring a speedy remedy, and I hope it will receive
prompt attention. Having made these observations,
which may have been tedious, I trust you will allow
me to make a few remarks upon the present condition
of the country with regard to its government.
We have a Government that lately came into office
by sufferance, and by sufferance we allowed it to finish
the last session of Parliament. The Chancellor of
the Exchequer received great credit for the statements
he made with regard to the budget. It was not his
budget. He found it at the bottom of Downing
street; but, in order to get over the session, we
agreed to the income-tax, and voted it for one year.
We are to meet Parliament, and, with regard to the
taxation of the country, with scarcely any knowledge
whatever as to what the Government is going to do ;
and the Chancellor of the Exchequer tells us that he
has a relief for the agricultural interest in compensa-
tion for their pretended losses by free trade—some-
thing extremely pleasant and agreeable, looming in
the future.—(Laughter.) Now, if what he has
looming in the distance will relieve the agricultural
classes in this kingdom, without imposing an equal
amount of restriction upon the industrious and manu-
facturing trading classes, he will receive my support;
but if I find it merely a shifting of taxation in order
to give a portion of the indirect taxes (that is, the
taxes you pay upon your tea, sugar, soap, and other
articles) for the relief of the rural districts, we will
oppose him if we should divide the House twelve
times every night, and we will defeat him finally
if he should attempt anything of the kind
—(Loud cheers.) What I would suppose is
this—that he expects from the increased revenue
upon articles of consumption that we shall be
enabled to relieve the farmers of the local rural taxes
which they think heavy, from the Consolidated Fund.
Now, I would wish you to know what the applying
any portion of the Consolidated Fund means. It
means that a portion of what is contributed by the
consumers to that fund should he appropriated to pay
rural burdens. Very well, if we could afford to do
so. I should like that very much, only when I con-
sent to relieve rural burdens by such means I should
also extend the same relief to towns.—(Cheers.) I
may be tedious, but, at the same time, I wish to be
instructive.—(Cries of No, no.) Now, we will not
consent to anything like indirect burdens on free
trade. If there is a surplus revenue, I want to apply
it to other purposes—to those general purposes from
which the whole population will derive an advantage.
I wish that the people of this country should have
their tea as cheap es the people of the United States
of America and of Australia. At present tea is sold
at three handred times more than its value ; that is to
say, that you pay Ss. upon every one shilling's
worth of tea to the public treasury. I want to reduce
it in price, and instead of drinking, as a friend of mine
termed it, stained or coloured water, I want the
people to have good wholesome tea. I think the sur-
plus revenue should be appled to reduce the tea and
other duties on articles of consumption.—(Cheers.)
There is nothing in the world so obnoxious as dirt.
At present we;have to pay 1,500,0001. for having our
linen and our skins clean—that is the duty upon soap.
That duty ought to be abolished. I will not give the
surplus to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the
purpose of relieving the agricultural classes, because
I deny that the agricultural classes have any peculiar
burdens at all. I crave the attention of the meeting,
because from the dryness of the subject it must be
tedious in itself ; but I wanted to go into this question,
for I know that what I have said will be reported
elsewhere, and I do not only wish that it will be re-
ported elsewhere, but I know that I will be able to
.defend anything I am now saying.—(Cheers.) I
know also, that the schoolmaster is abroad ; and when
I speak of the schoolmaster, I don't speak of the man
who is merely a teacher in a school. This meeting
is a school, the Crystal Palace was a great university,
the men who are employed building ship, &c.,
on the Clyde, the industry that sets in opera-
tion the steam press and the railway, and the
steam- ships that cross the Atlantic—all these opera-
tions form the gigantic schoolmasters going forth to
instruct and to civilise the world. I now come to the
meeting of the next Parliament. We are now going
to meet a Parliament and a Minister under very ex-
traordinary and peculiar circumstances. The First
Minister of the Crown has stated that his policy
would be to resist the dangerous current of demo-.
creep that was invading our institutions. If he per-
sists in that he shall have my determined opposition.
He stated also that he would have no educational
system that was not in strict accordance and perfect
obedience to the established and state
hand, kind; butgr ea I t
trust him. We have, on the
(Hear, hear.) In that he shall have my
notstrenuous
and determined opposition.—(Cheers.)
ex-
pect he will attempt anything
oofthtehre
bid-
dings for political capital:from members of the late
Government in the way of liberal principles ; and I
shall be delighted to find that they are sincere in their
democratic aspirations, but I shall never consent to give
them power, but I would like first to form a social
contract with them, that will prevent them from form-
ing a family clique or compact, which the moment
they get into office would despise the actual wishes of
the people, inasmuch as they have a hereditary tra-
dition which leads them to entertain the idea that
they alone have a divine right to breed the statesmen
of the British empire. I want to show them that such
a Government cannot now possibly exist in this
country. After a feeling tribute to the memory of
the Duke of Wellington, Mr. Macgregor concluded
by saying, as far as his humble endeavours could as-
sist them in the cause of reform in the House of Com-
mons, they were placed at the disposal of the consti-
tuency.
Mr. Mott, in moving a vote of thanks to the Mem-
bers for the city, said that he was still as firm a
Chartist as ever, and would stand up for the Charter
entire, but that he came down to this association in
order to conciliate the middle classes, in order that
they might get at least a portion of their demands.
He concluded by moving a vote of thanks to Messrs.

1862.

Hastie and Macgregor, for their conduct in Parlia-
ment, which was carried by acclamation.
Mr. MACGREGOR having acknowledged the vote of
thanks,

Mr. JOHN MACADAM moved a vote of thanks to the
chairman for his conduct in the chair, which was
carried by acclamation, after which the meeting
separated.

FIRE AT SEA, AND SUFFERINGS OF

'A
CREW.

By the arrival of the Jordeson, Mr. J. Venables
master, in the docks yesterday, from Manzanilla, in
Cuba, intelligence has been received of the total de-
struction, by fire, of the English vessel Helen, and the
marvellous preservation of the crew, who, for upwards
of ten days, were buffeted about in the boats, in the
wide Atlantic, with but trifling provisions, and ex-
posed to the most boisterous weather. The Helen,.
Mr. Turner commander, laden with a cargo of
general merchandise, amongst which were 140 tons of
India rubber, left Para, in the Amazon, South Ame
rice, for Liverpool. Mr. Wallace, a gentleman WOO
has attained some fame as a naturalist, was a pas-
senger in her to England, and her crew, including
the master and mates, numbered ten. The voyage
went happily enough until the morning of the Gth
of August, the vessel being in lat. 30.30 N.,
long. 52 W., when at about nine o'clock much
alarm was caused by a quantity of smoke being
observed to issue from the fore scuttle. Mr.
Turner instantly adopted the most prompt means to
ascertain the seat of the fire, and to suppress it at
its then apparent early stage. The fore hatch was
opened, and it was then discovered that the flames
were raging in the after part of the ship immediately
below the cabin. Water was thrown down the after
hatch, and in order more effectually to reach the body
of fire, a hole was cut in the cabin deck through
which a vast quantity was poured. The highly in-
flammable character of the cargo, however, seemed to
defy all efforts to save it from destruction. The de-
structive element made its way to the main hold, and
the intense heat and smoke soon drove the seamen
from the cabin. The flames rolled up both sides of
the vessel with such fury as to render all hopes of
subduing them impossible. Mr. Turner, anticipating
the sad fate of his ship, had previously directed the
long-boat and gig to be lowered, and as much provi-
sions as could be procured placed in them. But a
small quantity could be obtained. At length, about
half-past eleven o'clock, after exerting every effort
to preserve the vessel from entire destruction, it
was deemed prudent to order the hands to take to
the boats. Bodies of flame bad shot up through the
hatchways, and the heated condition of her decks
proved that she was alight below from stem to stern.
The crew, with Mr. Wallace, the passenger, put off
from her in the long-boat and gig, and hovered about
her at a safe distance, in the hope that her blasting
state might attract the attention of vessels passing by,
and in bearing down would see them, and pick them
up. Morning came, however, without any sail being
in view. Exposed as the unfortunate men were to a
powerful sun, their sufferings from thirst became most
intense, and as days passed by without there seeming
the least chance of being observed, a terrible fate ap-
peared to await them all. The boisterous weather
tried the boats severely, and the fear of their founder-
ing kept the poor creatures in a most painful state of
suspense. Several of the men, as also Mr. Wallace,
became much exhausted ; and that all of them should
have survived the fearful trial, may be deemed most
providential. At length, on the evening of the loth of
August, towards dusk, they espied a sail in view.
Happily, they were perceived by the vessel, the
Jordeson, the master of whom, Mr. Venables,
promply bore down to their aid, and picked them up
in lat. 32.46 N., long. 61 W., the island of Ber-
muda being some 200 miles distant. Their sufferings,
however, did not altogether end on their being got
on board the Jordeson. The latter's provisions,
owing to the addition of the Helen's men, and a
somewhat protracted voyage, ran short, and all on
board were put on a very small allowance, at one
time almost next to nothipg ; indeed, but for a sup-
ply which was obtained from the Ocean Wave, home-
ward bound, they would have been all starved before
they reached the Channel. Strange as it may appear,
some rats were caught on board, and, being cooked,
were devoured with much relish. The contents of
the grease pot were also consumed, and, indeed, any-
thing that could sustain life. The escape of the two
boats of the Helen has excited much attention amongst
the shipping interest. A day or so after they were
picked up most formidable weather had set in, and
had they been out in it, that they would all have been
sacrificed there is no doubt.