The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-17 00:00:00

:SUN,

of itnprovernOt lay, in system of well-diredted emigre-
tiove—(llear, hoar.) He did not know whether there
might not be cases in whic h grants of public money
might not be made, but he would advise the Chancellor
of the Exchequer to be. very ciatitious. It appeared to
him that this did not &elan to be one of the eases in which
such a grant ought to be made.
Mr. TRELA WNY said if they bad any spare cash in
the public Treasury there were other portions of the
kingdom in which the money might be more advan-
tageously laid out than in the Highlands of Scotland.
For instance, they had at preSent no direct communica-
tion between Portsmouth end Plymouth, although that
was most essential to the national defences. Then, they
required an extension of the electric telegraph. It''
should be borne in mind that they had only 2,000
bayonets in Portsnaoutb, and if art enemy suddenly ap-
peared on the coast the whole of the 'ships might be de-
stroyed and the arsenal burned. It was also, he thought,.
essential that they should have a line of railway between
Plymouth and Falmouth, which it might be advisable to
carry out. It appeared to him that this was an attempt
to adopt Protectionist principles by encouraging, by
means of public grants, those particular uudertakinge.
Sir D. NORREYS reminded the lleuse that they
were aware, from the blue books that bad been pub-
lished, that there was great distress existing in the west
of Ireland, but it was utterly impossible to aid them by
moans of these grants. If a commission were ap-
pointed by the people of Scotland to inquire into the best
means of relieving the existing distress, the Government
might perhaps be induced to interfere.
Mr. BOOKER said it appeared to him that the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had overlooked one very im-
portant consideration--namely, that there was extreme
distress existing in the Highlands and Islands of Scot-
land. He did think that it was an object of the first
consideration with a parental Government to afford pro-
fitable industrial employment to the people, without the
necessity of their transporting themselves from the
shores of their native country. He thought the Hon.
and Learned Member for Newark was entitled to the
beat thanks of the House for the able and lucid state-
ment he had put betoro them. It was impossible to
calculate the effect of the construction of a railway, as
the traffic rapidly developed itself as soon as facilities
wore afforded. He should like to have the assurance of
the Government that they would be prepared to con-
sider the matter in the event of the parties themselves
raising a portion of the capital. He understood the in-
habitants had offered to defray two-fifths of the expenses
of the preliminary survey.
Mr. F. SCOTT thought the case that had been
brought forward by the Hon. Gentleman presented pe-
culiar features, not only with regard to the amount of
the distress, but with regard to the extensive tract of
country over which its benefits would extend. He had
hopedthat the Right Hon. Gentleman would have
afforded more countenance to the project than he seemed
inclined to grant, and it appeared to him that the
matter was deserving of further and more attentive
consideration.

Mr. P. HO WARD hoped the Commissioners would
not persist in his motion at present. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had not entirely negatived the motion of the
Hon. Gentleman, and it might he advisable to submit to
him a more matured plan. He did not think it would
be possible to induce the landed proprietors to subscribe
unless they had some anterior encouragement from the
Government. As ho thought the matter deserving of
further consideration, he should move the adjournment
of the debate to Tuesday, 30th March.
The motion having been seconded, was put and
agreed to.

federacy throughout tho population, that murders were
perpetrated in open day, that jurors were intimidated,
and that though a Special Commission had been ap-
pointed, these men had not been put upon their trial.
Such a state of things required a calm, a searching, and
grave investigation.--(Hear, hear.) The present was no
party question. He had, ma a previous occasion stated
that he would not stoop to degrade such a question to
that position. He had so said when he was an indepen-
dent Member of the House, and that he would give every,
aid to the executive Government in such a manner.
After he had given notice of a motion on the subject,
he had received information of what had occurred to,
a gentleman whose name he would not mention. The
Ribbon confederacy had met and sat on trial on
that gentleman, for they had a judicial body-7-
they had tried him and condemned him to die.—.
(Hear, hear.) The offence he had committed was
that a Ribbonman, who had, been a tenant, had left or
was obliged to leave, and the farm being unlet he re-
turned and required tcrlbe let in again as itenant, which
the gentleman would not permit. He also referred to a
similar case on the Glenny .eitate, and asked was that a
state of things to be permitted?—(Hear, hoar.) The
law was set at defiance,
and life and property were
without security. There were a set of laws in Ireland
which made conspiracy and murder a capital offence in
that country, but such a law did not apply to England,
and in the Munster circuit a man had been sentenced to
death for that offence. In 1810 a law was passed about
the ribbon system, and Mr. Justice Blackburne and the
late Commissioner said no one could read that Act with-
out seeing that the crime it aimed at was at the very
root of the disturbances of the country, and the cause
of their assembling that day. It was a mistake to call
such a matter a land question. The system had its
own code of laws, and they were ready to carry them
out even to the death of the party obnoxious to them.
There was great difficulty in getting evidence .under
the law of 1810, and it was a rule in the
confederacy that not only the party who administered
the oath and the man who took it should be present on
the occasion. In 1816 the Insurrection Act passed, one
of those Acts justified by extreme necessity, as he (Mr.
Napier) was of opinion that it was better always to ex-
haust the ordinary powers of the law. In 1824 another
Act was passed, and one also in 1839, and the Chief Jus-
tice, in referring to these Acts, said, undoubtedly the
ordinary laws were sufficient, if they could be efficiently
administered. By referring to the difficulties they would
see how it was the law could not be executed, and what
means: should be adopted to break down a confederacy
so dangerous to the peace and prosperity of the country.
If they could only secure safety to life and property
there was no reason why capital should not flow into Ire-
land, and why the resoures of Ireland, which God had
made so abundant with a benignant hand, should not be
fully developed. The Right Hon. Gentleman then re-
ferred to the case of Jones, who was tried before Mr.
Justice Ball, when a great body of evidence respecting
the ribbon confederacy was produced—their signs in
short-hand, and their rules and regulations. The con-
federacy it must be known, may not be confined to Ire-
land. It had spread into England, and was to be found
at Manchester and other places, and it had also made its
way into Scotland. He next referred to a trial at Ar-
magh before Mr. Justice Crampton, and the charge de-
livered by that Learned Judge, and also to the opinion
expressed by the late distinguished Chief Justice Bushe,
a man of whom Ireland may be proud, who presided at
a Special Commission at Maryborough in 1832; and
nothing he said could be read with more advantage than
the charge of that eminent Judge. Mr. Justice Burton
said the confederacy had its own code of laws, which
they endeavoured to carry out; and the question was,
whether the laws of the confederacy or of the laud
should prevail. In 1822, Mr. Plunket, then
Attorney-General for Ireland, prosecuted in one
of these cases, and the object of the prosecution
was to bring before the public the ramifications of the
confederacy, a matter which was thought even more
important than the conviction of the prisoner.
It was to be observed, that the class of persons
in the confederacy was not the poorer class of persons,
but the comfortable and the better class.—(Hear, hear.)
In 1824, there was a Committee of the House of Lords
on the subject. Mr. Justice Blackburne was examined
before that Committee, and the evidence he gave on that
occasion showed his knowledge of the people and the
state of the country. He showed what were the objects
of the society, its efforts to get possession of the soil,and
the intimidation it exercised over the poorer classes and
he (Mr. Napier) thought that when they saw the better
classes bending under the operation of the confederacy
they ought to sympathise with the poorer classes.—
(Hear, hear.) ' The case of the poorer elasses ought to
be regarded in a fair and temperate spirit. The next
inquiry was in '32 before a Committee, which numbered
upon it many of the most eminent members of the
House. That Committee, in their report adverted to
the Special Commission of the previous year,when there
were 99 cases for trial, out of which there were 38 con-
victions; and the reason for the convictions being so
numerous was attributed by the Attorney-General
to the fact that he only brought forward cases in
which he was certain of getting verdicts of
conviction. That Committee of Special Commis-
sion was followed by the Coercion Act of Lord Grey,
which expired in '35. After alluding to the system of
Crown challenges in Ireland, in setting aside jurors, he
referred to an important Committee of the House of
Lords in '3B, before which Major Warburton gave evi-
dence confirmatory of the views of the judges. The
present course of the confederacy was, that when any of
their party was dispossessed of a farm, the land should
lie waste, poor-rates and other rates accumulating, and
at length the land was obtained on their own terms.
Formerly the law enabled them to convict parties having
passwords in their possession, but that law being re-
pealed they could no longer conviet for that offence.
Now he thought, that a law that nipped such a conspi-
racy in the bud was a wise and just law.—(Hear.) If
the Legislature could do anything on that subject it
ought to do it. Let it be said that the Legislature could
do nothing, and meet the question with a direct nega- ,1
stye, On the contrary, if anything could be done for
the protection of life and property iu Ireland, then
whatever is necessary should be done. It was his
intention to bring the matter before the House, and now
that hie had the honour of standing in his present posi-
tion, he felt himself bound to take up the subject with-
out delay. It was his intention to bring before the
House a code of laws for the regulation of the relations
of landlord and tenant, and he hoped the measures he
would introduce, would have the effect of simplyfying
and improving these relations.—(Hear.) Nothing was
more necessary than to put down these, for the purpose
of promoting the peace and prosperity Of Ireland.
There was what, by a desecration, was called a cute-
chimp; one of the principles inculcated was to discoun-
tenance any man taking land over a tenant to assist in
robbing landlords. There was a series of murders: be-
ginning in April, 1849, which were committed, and for
which the parties had not been convicted. It was not a
matter of religion, for some of those who fell victims
were Catholics, and some Protestants. The first was
the case of two brothers, who were care-takers of land
which lay untenanted, and for which the parties going
out of possession were compensated. These two men
were murdered in open day, and the murderers had never
been brought to judgment. There was another case of
a murder committed in Armagh upon Mr. M'Avila. He
was agent to a property in that county. The party was
brought to trial, but acquitted. The jury, although they
acquitted the prisoner, declared that they thought he was
guilty. What he meant to say was, that the jury, al-
though they had not what they considered sufficiently
conclusive evidence to find a verdict of guilty, yet had
no moral doubt that he was the party who committed
the crime. This man went to America, and on his
deathbed confessed that he was the person who com-
mitted the crime. In 1850 a gentleman was fired at in
open day, and in 1851 Mr. Coleman was murdered, and
his body found covered with eighteen wounds. The party
accused was taken up, and afterwards admitted to bail,
upon the surety of two parties at 101. each. This man
absconded to America. A young man named Maclary
was murdered going to mass. His sister accompanied
him and sought to protect him. She threw herself over
him, but the assassins beat him to death with cudgels.
His crime was that his 'father had an addition made to
his farm of some land, which had been given up by the
, tenants. The parties were tried by a jury exclusively of
I Romau Catholics;.' seven were in favour of condemning,
and five for an acquittal. From these instances he hoped
that an alteration would be made in the consitu-
tion of the juries which tried these cases, and that a
better class of jurors should be impanelled to try them.
It was anomalous that a superior class of persrs should
by the present law - have. to try cases df i civil cha-
racter, and that these criminal cases should be tried by
jurors of a lower grade. In one case a party aahe came
out of the court said—" I'm the boy who did the job."
Then there was the murder of Mr. Bateson. This gen-
tleman had a model farm, in the cultivation of which he
spent 4601. a year in wages; thus giving employment to
the people. Ample ,testimony was paid `to the excel-,
Lena() of his character; a journal, entertaining' opposite
politics , to him, described him as a good man,' perhaps
the best landlord in the county who gave employment
which
murder
to the people throughout the year. There was the
of Mr. Eastwood, the perpetrators of
were never brought to trial.. Mra, qhambre . was
the last case. This gentleman bad never dispossessed
a tenant;
he spent 6001. a year in wages for
labour. What, then, was his crime?- He .had. made
himself active in putting
down the system of Iti
Ile had selected these cases as specimens, and in none of
which ea conviction had been- obtained. The assizes
passed over, but no conviction. It was a frightful thing
that these murders should be committed with impunity,
agnedutni oemthlitr:gredsoidaienbywinhistahealtacmouenettyse_effect a remedy.. It
to
oas known that Id *these cases assessments were made
defend the prisoners. He received a letter from a
he had reduced
upon the price of eons fostathteed monaghan, with whom
he was acquainted,
his rentos. That he had made is valuationi
one-third for himself al-
lowedLthtat:thtroeenieyeetattill:e.antidmes,
valuation to the tenants, re-
servingor-
ganization, that though some
two-thirds upon three
yoeft that such was the'
them were willing, yet
they dare not pay it. This gentleman saide that Ribbon-
ism was at the bottom of all this elrdeorci
i 7
hteheethfeeimralesof their
feelings
in
tehhi
x.
or ema tesnwbear
de
families
r whowe
Y couldlla
held out against all those who resisted,
courage to
threatened.t o disregard
This
few
who
on
hcould r e
at e resist.
xp e
riCaptainenee
in
Wsuacrhbtimrt9tae
Major Brown-
!), en sent down by the Government into these' districts,ad
and
give the Committee valuable information.
rigg could also give information, and bad already drawn
up a paper suggesting some improvement in the law to
meet the evil.—(Hear, hear.) It was objectionable to
have the constables returning` the jurors. In one case a
constable had himself been placed in the dock for one of
these c •
,ffisuaas, It was of great importance that they
should have a proper class of jurors, and when the 'sir-
cumstances were such that they could take theta to other
casuists, there ought to be a power to do so, in order to
Ihave a trial free from those local intimidations. Those
thugs could be b g
brought before the Committee, and then

WEDNES ;2/A

he would expect the concurrence of the House in pro-
moting a remedy and thereby advancing industry and
protecting honest men, and putting down crimes so dan-
gerous to society. This result wouid be beneficial, not
only to Ireland but to the empire at large.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HATCHELL did not object to the motion; in-
deed, it was perfectly plain, from the statement made by
bis Right Hon. and Learned Friend, that it ought to be
'acceded to generally by the House.—(Hear, hear.)
Neither did he object specially to the form of that mo-
tion, as it was clear that the mischief for which a remedy
should be discovered id' these three counties would be
equally met in every other part of Ireland. It would
appear to the House that the crimes and outrages alluded
to have not sprung up of late'date in Ireland, inasmuch
as there had existed ha that country analogous societies
for at least thirty 'years. The Governments of Lord
Grey, Lord Melbourne, and Sir R. Peel had endeavoured
to keep within the limits of the law, and meet the dis-
turbances by special commissions. Ho (Mr. Hatchet!)
would apply himself to some of the late outrages adverted
to by his Right HOuourable and Learned Friend. It
would be clear to the House that any party who held the
office of Crown prosecutor in Ireland was placed in a
very difficult position. It was
i
times to obtain convictions under any circumstances.
With respect to the two ineffsctual
still standing special commission,
over in the tutrpiaoltssibwlehie(h)f
were
he would not speak of them minutely, but he
would say, in one case, he did adviSe the special com-
mission; it was a case which ought to be prosecuted, as
t e "'e
Lord-Lieuwe eele
et
een arnet,
atphoeueaviihdleenefoer wthaastgaudffiveicieen, tillyntsttrhoengla,
as had been incorrectly' asserted. The case, however,
had been transferred to the Queen's Bench, there to be
tried according to the paper forms of the court. In the
case of the outrages at Louth, in one ease of outrage a
second trial had to take place. At that second trial the
sister of the murdered man came forward and contra-
dicted the previous evidence of the young woman who
had sworn to the identity of the prisoner, and thus pro-
cured the acquittal of the prisoner. In the case cif Mr.
Eastwood he had advised the postponement of the trial,
because he was not in a condition to produce a material
witness. The gentleman was now in a condition to
produce that witness,,and the case might be removed
by certiorari if the Honourable and Learned Gen-
tleman wished. His general instructions were to
get proper jurors, and not to take persons who were
respected the
fundamental
underhfeeataut
rt
ea thereleyf
deniedt ihnef
juuernyhc eal
av v on.fg
Hvfieenahl
arat
vet
throughout
gtnhhfeotruh
to causes. But
the
Purpose of
a
principles of the jury law in all his proceedings., There
was
o
a wide con-
spiracy one particular
purpose, but for a variety of objects. In One case the
in
ttathnaft
Ireland,Rib bon iam
not efxerist anyed as
eßniabrci I
nngc
tornafde
ed, e
andr a cy
in
nkaade
mur-
dered who had not conformed to, the rules of that con-
federacy. At present the confederacy directed its views
bineestnanuce sead form anhd been
to the relations of landlord and tenant. He hoped the
Select Committee would prove of advantage l y inquir-
ing into the cause of crime in the counties referred to.
Mr. HALLE WELL said the question involved not
only the material improvement of that country, but the
very character of the people- There was no country in
the world which presented such a state of things as Ire-
land. He was satisfied unless the law was made to be
the terror of evil-doers, that evil-doers would become a
terror to the law. He strenuously advised a rigid en-
forcement of the law.
Mr. McCULLAGH concurred in the remarks of the
Right Hon. Gentleman with regard to the prevalence of
crime in Ireland and its debasing effects on the popula-
tion. But if this was admitted on one hand, thes,
were
bound to bear in mind on the other hand that, equality
and law bad never been the same in Ireland as in other
portions of the empire. With respect to the tenure of
land several discussions in that House had taken place,
and though nothing definite had been decided upon, yet
most Hon. Members were agreed as to the expediency
of making some modification which it was anticipated
would soften the asperities between tenant and landlord.
It had already been urged on the House the propriety
of altering the law of ejectment in order to give some
advantage to the Irish tenant; but it was opposed on
the ground that it would not be right to give the Irish
tenant more advantage than the Scotch and English
tenant enjoyed. Since that proposition was refused, a
large number of evictions bad taken place, and this
had led to the increase of crime and the impossibility
of obtaining justice. He did not think it would
answer any good purpose to have a Select
Committee, if they were to narrow their ob-
ject to that class of witnesses only which the Honour-
able and Learned Gentleman proposed to call before it.
In 1817, the present Lord Chancellor of Ireland, then
Chief Justice Blackburne, succeeded without any extra-
ordianary measures in vindicating the law in the county
of Limerick, when a worse state of things existed at
the time than lately prevailed in the north. Since then
Limerick was perfectly tranquil. Let not the House,
therefore, be led away by the belief that it was neces-
sary to change he fundamental principles of the law in
Ireland, because in certain districts there had been no
convictions. In the first trial, that for the murder of
Mr. Bateson—there were four justices of the peace
on the jury, and amongst its other members were se-
veral owners of property—the jury, in fact, was not
composed of doubtful persons, or of men of the inferior
class, and yet nine were for acquittal, and,three for con-
viction. On the second trial, seven were for acquittal,
aad three for conviction. The evidence was of a
character to raise great doubts in the mind of any man—
the whole question being one of identity. It
was not, therefore, by altering the constitution
of juries that they could effect an improve-
ment. There was much in the management of pro-
perty, and is the state of society, which caused great
irritation. and it was an improvement in that
source of action they shouldilook for an amelioration
of the subject matter of complaint. He did not, how-
ever, in the observations he had made, mean to raise
any question about the appointment of the Committee,
but ho had thought it his duty to express his -.dissent
from some of the views of the Hon,
on. and Learned Gentle-
man opposite.

MrAiIIOGAN, in a voice scarcely audible, protested
against any attempt on the part of a Member of that
House to palliate the outrages which had been committed
in the recently disturbed districts of Ireland.
The motion was then agreed to.
THE ANNUAL INDEMNITY BILL.
On the mution of Sir W. JOLLIFFE, leave was given
to bring in this Bill, and it was accordingly introduced
and read a first time.