The Sun.
London, England, 1852-12-17 00:00:00

POOR LAW UNIONS.

Mr. EWART moved for returns from each of the
poor-law unions in England, Wales, and Ireland, show-
ing :-1. What kinds of employment, if any, are carried
on in the respective workhouses, or on land attached to
then. 2. The number of adult able-bodied persons,
male and female, who appeared on the books as reci-
pients of relief on the Ist day of July, 1852, and
the proportion of them engaged by the directions
of the guardians in handicraft and agricultural industry.
3. The classification of the inmates of each workhouse,
and the number of them engaged in industrial pursuits.
4. Whether all the articles produced are used in the
workhouses, and, if not, how the surplus is disposed of.
Agreed to.
STAMP DUTIES ON PATENTS BILL.

The Stamp Duties on Patents for Invention Bill was
read a third time and passed.

THE BUDGET—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
The house then went into Committee of Ways and
Means ; Mr. WILSON PATTEN, in the chair.

Lord J. RUSSELL said he found that the other
night there was considerable difficulty in ascertaining
the meaning of the resolution of the Government, and,
on inquiring into the matter, he found that only a por-
tion of the resolution had been read. He, therefore,
thought it would be better to take the whole resolu-
tion.

Mr. W. PATTEN explained that the usual course
was to read the whole resolution, unless an amendment
was proposed, and then only the portion of the resolu-
tion to which it referred was put. There having been
an amendment, he had adopted the latter course.
Mr. HUME said, on behalf of Mr. W. Williams, he
would withdraw his amendment, and substitute it as an
amendment to the whole resolutions of the Govern-
ment.

After a few words from Mr. W. PATTEN,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
he was informed on the highest authority that the reso-
lution should be taken paragraph •by paragraph. He
only intended to take the opinion of the committee on
the increase and extension of the tax, and the question
as to the amount of the tax would be deferred until

another occasion, when he should take the opportunity
of laying the views of the Government before the com-
mittee. That was a distinct proposition, and he felt
bound in honour not to press for a decision upon it until
after the holidays. He trusted the committee would
agree to divide upon the preamble of the resolution as
soon as possible.
Mr. E. DENISON said he distinctly understood
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated he
would look upon the vote of the committee as conclusive
of the whole propositions of the Government ; and, under
these circumstances, he hoped the Government would
allow the whole resolution to be read. (Hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE thought it was the practice of the
house for the chairman to read through the entire reso-
lution, unless he were interrupted by some hon. member
who desired to move an amendment to any particular
paragraph. The hon. member for Lambeth gave notice
of an amendment to the preamble of the resolution, but
he subsequently withdrew it, and the hon. member for
Manchester (Mr. Bright) then intimated that he wished
to take a negative on these words. Now he would ask
the hon. member if he had any objection to a negative
being taken on the whole proposition ?
Mr. BRIGHT said he was willing to take any course
which the forms of the house would sanction.
Sir J. PAKINGTON observed, that though in point
of fact there was but one resolution, it embraced four
distinct propositions. The preamble stated the principle
of the Government proposition—viz., that the house tax
should hereafter be extended in erea, and increased in
amount. (Hear.) Then there followed three other distinct
propositions—first, that the house tax should be extended
to houses of 101. ; secondly, that houses of a certain
class should pay is. in the pound ; and, thirdly, that
other houses of a certain other class should pay is. 6d.
in the pound. these were all propositions on which a
difference of opinion might prevail ; and he therefore
submitted that the most fair course was to consider only
one at a time, and to take the preamble first. (Hear.)
Mr. GOULBURN said they were in a committee of
ways and means, for the purpose of granting supplies to
her Majesty ; but the preamble of the resolution was
not a vote, for it simply asserted that " the following
duties should be hereafter payable—that is to say," and
then it terminated. (Hear, and cheers.) It involved a
general principle ; but a committee of ways and means
was not the place to determine such a question.
(Cheers.)
Mr. HINDLEY thought if the house had not intended
to go into the details of the resolution, the proper time
would have been to do so at the time when the hon.
member for Finsbury opposed that the Speaker leave
the chair.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE denied that the preamble of the
resolutions contained the principle of the extension of the
area of the house tax, and of the amount of payment on
it. He contended that the issue originally intended by
Government, mac too i"„LIL.E, hutuic tax, awl
it was nonsense for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to
say that that rested with the house. The issue had, in
fact, been changed to suit the convenience of some par-
ties, but who they were he knew not.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
that so far as he was concerned, he should not consider
any gentleman voting for this resolution, pledged to the
Government proposal with respect to the house tax.
Sir C. WOOD doubted whether it would be possible
in accordance with the forms of the house, to put the
preamble of these resolutions alone. The fact was, that
theresolutions were drawn up in a somewhat loose form.
They were in commiitee of ways and means, and their
duty, therefore, was to vote a grant, and not to repeal
an existing tax. If it were in form, he for his own part
was quite willing to go to a division on the preamble.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought that the mos
the
whole
f
tory course to be pursued would be to read-
resolution.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
so far as the form of the resolution wthaossecoonfpetrnheedri,ghhet
had copied them totidem verbis from
hon. gentleman the member for Hahl He repeated
that, so far as the Government was concerned, any
gentleman voting for this first resolution was perfectly
entitled at a future opportunity to oppose the redupli-
cation of the house tax.
Mr. E. DENISON said that the declaration of the
right hon. gentleman was in substance that any hon.
gentleman voting a supply of one shilling might
be at liberty to interpret that shilling to mean 6d, 4d, or
10d, as he liked.
Mr. K. MACAULAY said he was one of those, who
being willing to divide for an extension of the house tax,
were unwilling to be driven into a vote as towhat the amount
of extension should be. He had not yet made up his
mind as to the number of pence by which the house tax
should be extended, though he was of opinion that it
should be extended.
Mr. S. HERBERT said that the real question before
the committee was, to what amount the house tax should
be extended, and it was impossible for them to discuss
the principle of the measure.
Sir T. ACLAND said, that if he were called upon to
vote the highest amount of extension. he should do so
on the understanding that he would be at liberty, at
any future period, to endeavour to lower it.
Mr. MALINS said his mind was not yet made up as
to the amount to which the house tax should be in-
creased, and he should, therefore, vote for this resolu-