The Sun.
London, England, 1864-06-15 00:00:00

'BRILL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS—Last Evening,

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at

5 o'clock.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE pointed out an error
in the report in one of the morning papers of the remarks
made by the Earl of Granville, in which he was represented
to have said that Lord Elgin had diverted to India troops
which had been sent to China. The fact was that he acted
upon the instigation of Lord Canning, who had shared with
him the responsibility.

Earl GRANVILLE said, considering that their lord.
ships were tempted to speak in a conversational tone across
the table, and the frequency with which conversation was
carried on under the reporters' gallery, he was not surprised
that his remarks were misunderstood. The noble lord had
correctly represented what he had actually raid. Lord Elgin
was on his way to China at the time when the news of the
Indian mutiny met him with the request that the troops in-
tended for China should be sent to India. Lord Elgin took
upon himself the responsibility of complying with the
request.

After a few words from Lord LTVEDEN and Lord STRAT •
FORD DE REDCLIFFE, the subject dropped.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Shiel's Charities—Earl of Egmont's Estate—Kent Coast
Railway—Crystal Palace and South London Junction Rail
way—Great Eastern Railway (Highbeach Branch)—Lon-
don, Chatham, and Dover Railway (Steamboats)—Oswes-
try, Ellesmere, and Whitchurch Railway—South Eastern
Railway (No. I)—South Eastern Railway (No. 2)—Nor-
folk Railway—London, Brighton, and SouthCoastlßailwap
(Ouse Valley Line)—and Royston and Hitchin Railway.
THE QUEEN'S MESSAGE—SIR, ROWLAND HILL.
Her Majesty's message having been read by the clerk at
the table,
Earl GRANVILLE said he had now to make a similar
proposal to that he made last evening on behalf of one who
entered young upon the services of his country. Sir Row-
land Hill had not become a public servant at so early a
period of his life, but the great benefit that had been
conferred upon the public at large by the adoption
of the penny postage would no doubt induce their lordships
to concur with her Majesty in conferring upon the principal
author of that scheme a mark of public approval. There
was, it was true, some question as to the actual author of
the penny postage scheme, but Sir Rowland Hill was ene
of the very foremost of its advocates, and owing to his
energy and talent it had been adopted by the
Government of that day, and bad ever since been
productive of the greatest national benefit. The number of
letters passing through the Post-office compared with that
before the scheme was adopted had increased tenfold, and
the money-order office, while it had been productive of the
greatest advantages to the commercial country at large,
had been a considerable gain to the country. He had no
doubt their lordships would unanimously respond to the
recommendation of her Majesty.
After a few words from Lord BROUGHAM and the Mar- I
quis of CLANRICARDE, the motion was agreed to.

MORTGAGE DEBENTURES BILL.

The report of amendments was brought up.

The Earl of MALMESBURY moved the addition of a
clause to enable trustees of landed property to invest the
trust funds in the debentures of the proposed companies.
Lord REDESDALE opposed the clause.
A division was called for and partly proceeded with, but
The Earl of MALMESBURY, amidst much laughter,
withdrew the clause, and
The report was read.
The Union Assessment Act Amendment Bill, with some
amendments, passed through committee.

The Ecclesiastical Courts and Registries (Ireland) Bill
passed through committee.

The report of the Public Schools Bill was brought up
and read.

The report of the Scottish Episcopal C:ergy Dhiabilities
Removal Bill was brought up and agreed to.
The Court of Justiciary (Scotland) Bill was read a third
time and passed.

Their lordships then adjourned,

HOUSE OF COMMONS—Yesterday.
The SPEAKER took the chair at twelve o'clock.
FACTORIES ACT AINIENDMENT BILL.

Mr BRUCE moved the second reading of this bill. He
said that between 17,000 and 18,000 children were em-
ployed in the trades with which it was proposed to deal.
The hon. member for Devonport (Mr 'errand) had stared
that the bill would affect 10,000 persons, but he thought he
should be able to show the hon. member that that was
a mistake, although no doubt the numbers would be in-
creased by the extensions it was proposed to adopt. He
explained the principle on which the bill would act with re-
gard to the ages at which children might be employed, and
met many of the objections which had been urged against
Government. He also read lengthened extracts from the
reports of eminent physicians showing the deterioration of
potters and others from overwork, and the nature of the

work in which they were engaged, The seeds of the disease
were sown in the children, whoso labour was far too severe,
It had been urged that the Government ought to have pro-
ceeded under the Mines Inspection Act, which prohibited
chillren under 12 years of age from being employed. That
would be a very good arrangement if they could secure
children, between 8 and 12, being sent to school. (The
right honourable gentleman read returns to show that
it was not the case). Another objection which had been
urged was that under the biA they would not be able

to obtain a suMeient number of children to early on
the work of manufactures ; but it must be re-
membered these men were employers of boys themselves,
and it was likely that they would not treat them so
humanely as the employers. He had conclusive evidence
that many of the men neglected their work at the
beginning of the week, and, consequently, at the end of
the week they were obliged to employ boys to make up
their lost titne,thus rendering the employment of boys larger
than it would otherwise be. Another argument was that the
trades in which children were employed were so numerous
and detached that it would be impossible to enforce the
law. That argument had been used with regard to the
cotton districts, but it had not been found to
bo of any use. The right hen. gentleman then
explained how the bill would apply to the lucifer match
trade in which children were employed from six in
the morning till ten at night, being the poorest of the
poor and worst educated of any class. From working
in ill ventilated rooms they suffered from most loathsome
disease of the jaws. He also explained the nature of the
percussion cap trade, and other trades to which the bill
would apply.
Mr CRUM-EWING considered that the bill would
remedy many defects in the existing Factory Aots, and
he hailed its introduction with great satisfaction.
Lord INGESTRE said he did not intend to oppose the
second reading of the bill, but when it was read a se-
cond time he should move that it be referred to a select
committee. He was so anxious that legislation should
take place that he put his opposition, if he might use such
a term, in the mildest form. It was only to some portions of
the bill which tho right hon. gentleman proposed that he
had any objections at all. To the half time system he had a
great objection as being inapplicable to the potteries.
Mr. H. GRENFELL agreed with Lord Ineestre that
the Bill should be referred to a select committee.'
Mr WATKIN, in oppe,ingthe bill, said that the reports
on which the measure was founded were not correct, as
they were greatly exaggerated In -
support of this state
ment he cited the s.utherity of an eminent medical man to
show that in certain districts where pottery works were
being carried on scrofulous diseases were not as rife as they
had been represented. His statement was founded upon
practical knowledge of the condition of the. elms Whose
interests were involved in this bill, but he wished it to be
understood that the manufacturers, whose views he repre-
sented, were disposed to give effect to any legislative
enactment on the subject that was calculated to remedy an
evil.

Mr ADDERLEY objected to the bill, as introducing a
system that from its expense was opposed to the feelings
of the community at large, as leading to a system of Go-
vernment inspection, than which nothing could be mcre
unpopular in this country. He contended that the mode
in which it was proposed to deal with the subject was a
slovenly form of legislating.

-Ulm some further discussion the bill was read a second
time.

The house then adjourned, but resumed sitting at six
o'clock.

THE INCOME-TAX.

Mr HUBBARD called attention to the operation and
extent of the direct and indirect taxation now levied, with
especial reference to the Income-tax and to the prospect of
its continuance. After some remarks upon the unpopu-
larity of our taxation, owing, he said, to its want of system
and of justice, he read a statement of the main heads of the
taxation, indirect and direct, and the produce of each. He
compared the advantages and disadvantages of the two
kinds. Many evident advantages were on the aide of in-
direct taxes, but they had some imperfections. On the
other hand, direct taxation had its limits. Assuming that
the Income and Property Tax could not be dispensed with,
this great fiscal engine, he observed, must be managed
truthfully, and he proceeded to reproduce and discuss the
Principles of the scheme he had proposed last session, reply-
jug. to the objections offered to it by the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. He pointed the unjust principles upon which
the existing tax was constructed, and dwelt upon the moral
evils engendered by it, ntentionin!, examples of its demoral-
izing effects. He was was of opinion that an Income tax
equitably devised would be accepted by the country, and he
the following resolution :
concluded by moving" That the
inequalities and injustice attending the operation of the
existing Property and Income Tax disqualify it for being
continuously reimpoed in its present form as one of the
means of levying the national revenue."
Mr WIIALLEY supported the motion, contending that
the necessary effect of the Income-tax was to demoralize the
trade of the country.
The CHANCELLOR of tho EXCHEQUER observed
hat, looking at the state of the house (which had just been
counted), it would appear that it was not desirous that the
motion should be adapted, or that it should undergo a de.
tailed discussion. After noticing the discord between the

views and principles of Mr Hubbard and Mr Whalley,
he remarked that the plan of the former had not only
never been in operation, but had never obtained
the acceptance of any Ministry. His own ob-
jection to it was that it did not propose to get rid of any of
the anomalies of the existing tax, but to displace the present
system and introduce a scheme that had recommended itself
to his mind, but which was totally novel. Mr Hubbard
liad obtained a committee last session on the subject of his
seheme, the judgment of which was adverse to him, and
he had now varied the form of his motion ; but he thought
that the house, recognizing the ill effects of an abstract
resolution, would not be disposed to adopt it. True, there
ware great inequalities in the operation of the income-tax,
but let not the house pass this resolution without having
before it some practical scheme.
Mr BOVILL supported the motion. He denied that this
was a mere abstract resolution. It declared the injustice
and inequality of the present form of the tax; and should
not an attempt be made to remedy them and check the en-
couragement now given to unfair returns ? The Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer did not propose any remedy or suggest
any plan; he asked the house simply to reject this motion.
Sir S. NORTHCOTE observed that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer did not ask the house to adopt the income-
tax as a part of the permanent taxation of the country ; if
he did, a motion of this kind might properly be made. The
house had had opportunities of considering this subject,
and propositions made for altering the system had never
met with its acceptance. The house should not commit
itself by condemning a tax in an abstract resolution.
After a few words from Mr HUBBARD in reply, the
motion was negatived upon a division by 67 to 28.
NATIONAL EDUCATION IN IRELAND.
Sir H. CAIRNS moved a resolution, " That the rules
sanctioned by the Commissioners of National Education
in Ireland on the 21st day of November, 1863, are so
far as regards their operation on the aid afforded to convent
and monastic schools, at variance with the principles of
' the system of national education." The question, he ob-
served, was one the importance of which could not be over-
stated, the annual grant paid from the public purse amount-
ing to £315,000, and the number of children being 600,000,
and the rules referred to had been condemned by some of
the warmest friends of the system as fundamental changes
in its principles, quite irrespective of religious denomina-
tion. The model schools, which were intended to provide
teachers, had been an object of hostility to the Roman Ca-
tholic clergy, who at the same time had made a demand for
separate training for Roman Catholic teachers. The Board
of Education bad nominally refused this grant, but in sule-
stance they had granted it; ana the consequence of this
was that if such a concession was made to oue denomina-
tion it must be made to all, and this must lead to separate
education. He proceeded to narrate the proceedings of the
Board with relation to the convent schools, and he read a
description of these schools in a report by Mr Sheridan, a
bead inspector (a Roman Catholic), which he thought
should have called for a different kind of action from the
Board. Under the pressure of the Roman clergy, how-
ever, the Board, he contended, had violated the original
rules in regard to the convent schools, and by the rules of
November the Commissioners had departed from the prin-
ciples of the national system, and sanctioned a separate
training estalishment paid by the State, the amount given
to the convent schools being withdrawn from the model
schools. The Board had offered a defence of the rules
which he insisted was no justification, but was contra-
dictory and inconsistent with facts; and in their reply
to a letter of Sir R. Peel, complaining of the changes
made by them in the fundamental rules of the sys-
tem, the Commissioners claimed an uncontrolled power over
the public grant. If the house, he said in conclusion, de-
sired to maintain the system of national education in Ire-
land, he called upon it then to show the Commissioners
that the course they had pursued was not approved by the
house.

The motion was seconded by Mr DAWSON, who would
prefer to the present Board three paid Commissioners.
Mr O'HAGAN, as one of the Commissioners assailed by
Sir H. Cairns, replied to charges against them which he
declared he knew to be utterly unfounded. The real object
of the accusation was, he said, not the rules of the Board,
but to destroy a great institution and substitute a board of
paid commissioners. He would demonstrate that there had
been no fundamental change in the rules of the Board, or
any change that in any degree conflicted with the principles
of the Board or was at variance with their established prac-
tice. He proceeded to justify the acts of the Commissioners
from au early period in regard to convent schools, which
were known to be in connection with the Board in 1854.
The principle of the Board, which had adapted itself to the
peculiar circumstances of Ireland, without any departure
from the great principle of religious freedom, was to esta-
blish rules and regulations of such a character that there
should be no possibility of proselytism and no interference
with th© religion of children. He read testimonies to the
character of the convent schools, and though he admitted
that the report of Mr Sheridan was not favourable to
them, he was encountered by a whole host of other in-
spectors. The model schools were not the sole establish-
ments for the training of teachers; the monitorial system
had been in operation 20 years, and was changed year after
year, and nobody supposed that these were fundamental
changes in the principles of the Board, nor was there
any pretence for such an allegation. As to the model
schools being training establishments for teachers, there
was no authority for this assertion. This was not contem-
plated ; they were intended, as the very name indicated, to
be models for other schools, not for training teachers. Upon
the whole, he contended that, whatever might be the real
object of the motion, the argument in support of it had

Mr WHITESIDE referred to the number of protests
(including that of Sir R. Peel) against what he termed an
act of arbitrary power, which had been justified by Mr
O'Hagan. He disputed the theory as to the model schools
_ _

propounded by Mr O'Hay,an, and complained that these
schools were in process of destruction by the denunciation
of the Roman Catholic children to be withdrawn and trans-

......... ferred to the convent schools. He indicated what appeared
to him to be the aim and the effect of these cmventual
establishments, and appealed to evidence of their state and
condition. The true object of the Romish Church in Ire-

[and was, he observed, to abet a Complete separation be-
ween Roman Catholics and Protestants.

The debate was then adjourned.
The remaining business having been disposed of, the
house adjourned at twenty minutes to two o'clock.

Strange Suicide at London Bridge,

Yesterday morning Mr. William Payne, coroner
for the city of London and Southwark, held an in-
quiry respecting the death of Richard Barrett,
aged 43, who committed suicide at London-bridge.
John Barka, 6, Little Manchester street, Bethnal-
green, said that the deceased was a tailor by trade,
and lived with him. He had been living for twenty
years with a woman who left him seven weeks ago
and got married. He was much distressed in con-
sequence. At times he seemed to be out of his mind,
and he used to jump up in the middle of the night
and ran out saying, " All the people in the house
are going to murder me." For some time past ho
was out of work, and he was very poor, not even
having a table in his room. Last Sunday week he
went to see his sister, who was living in St. Pan-
eras, and of whom he had lost sight for twelve
years. She " disacknowledged" him, and said, " I
do not know you. You are not my brother. My
brother has been dead some years." He returned
home in a most agitated state, and said to a little
girl, " I will kill myself." He afterwards locked
up his room, went out, and witness never saw him
alive after. He was a man of very sober habits.
William Jones, a working man, said that on last
Thursday morning he was on the steps at the City
aide of London-bridge, when he saw the deceased
Thlying
Oa his face, partly covered by the water.
ere was a mark of a Fievern injury on the temple,
evidently caused by a fall. The deceased had ap-
parently leaped from the bridge into the river.
George Smith, 602
City Police, said that ha was
called by the last witness at six is the morning,
and found the deceased lying near the steps of
London'bridge• '-'4O one saw him get into the
water.
ad nPapers.
T
His
in r the friends
were discovered by means of
saidnetwhsat the case was clearly one
v ehr
et i
Cs iorgo
n e
of suicide, though there Ives
no legal evidence of
the faot.

The Jury returned a verdiet.....o That
deceased
was found dead in the Thames at London-bridge,
but how he came into the water there was no direct
evidence to prove."

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