The Sun.
London, England, 1864-12-09 00:00:00

at large, but I will say this, that it was one of
the remarkable features of that great debate, that

with the exception of one man, who made a halting
and a lame defence—half blaming, and not half

praising—there was not another man on the other
side of the house, with the exception of the Minis.
ters themselves who defended the position in which

this country found itself. (Rear, hear.) We may
have been right or we may have been wrong; but
entertaining the opinions we did, we should have
been wanting in duty to the country, we should have
been wanting in respect to ourselves if we had not

challenged not only the opinions of the house but of
the country on the issue which we desired to present.
(Cheers.) In the course of the debates, and in the

articles which I read in the newspapers, I see often
insinuated, often stated boldly, the vulgar insinua-
tion that any step that is taken in Parliament is for
the mere desire of place or power. Well, if it be an

object of just ambition to take the lead in thesounm
cils of the country, to direct its energies, to assist
in the application of its wealth, by means of its

great and varied influence to mould and guide the
opinion of other countries—it it be the object of
public mcn to make the influence, and the name,
and the character of this country felt, then I say
that is a noble ambition—(cheers)--and it is totally

. .
different and diverse from the grovelling and low
insinuations which are made in public journals and

speeches only by those who are incapable of feeling
the higher ambition of the two. (Loud cheers.)

For myself I would say, that however humble my

position in the Government might be, I would
sooner have my name recorded in history as having
done my best to develop the interests of the coun-
try—to promote liberal, true, and enlightened prin-
ciples all over the world—to make the name and
reputation of this great country felt and respected,

than es having laid the foundation of the greatest
fortune ever raised in the land. (Cheers.) I have
said that our object was to obtain the opinion of
the country on the question to which I have
alluded. It is true that the opinion of the

House of Commons by a certain small majority was

against us. I will not enter into the party reason
which made the majority smaller or greater, or any

majority at all. This is not a question to be dis-
cussed here. But I will say this, that we did a
great deal of good, because I am sure that we elicited
from the country a decided opinion as to what should

be our future conduct with regard to foreign nations
and our future foreign policy, and that is a lesson
which no Minister can ever forget. 1 do not

say that in the sense in which it has been taken
up by Mr Cobden and others who have addressed
great publie meetings. They say that that debate
has constituted a new era in our foreign policy;

tbat for the future we are to remain isolated in the

family of nations, that we are to close our ears to
the complaints that reach us, that we are to shut
our eyes to the events that pass around us, and that
so long as we can drive a big and thriving trade we
arp to adopt the policy of not interfering in the
affairs of our neighbours, and to remain in strict

seclusion and isolation from the rest of the world. Now I

say, in the first place, that I believe that to be impossible ;

and then that it it were possible it would be mean and dis-
graceful. (Hear, hear.) It is a most inconsistent policy to
be advocated by men of such distinction as Mr Cobden
and Mr Bright. For what do they do ? They say we are to
remain in this isolated position amongst all the nations of
the world; and yet wherever they meet their countrymen
they do not discuss merely the question of cotton if they
are in Lancashire, or of oxen and sheep if they are in Sll9-
sex, but they address themselves to great rublic questions
that interest the heart of England and of Europe too. And
having thus tried to educate public opinion—having con-
♦ictions of their own, in some of which I cordially concur,
but from others of which I differ--they urge those convic-
tions with all the force of eloquence and all the influence of

character. They do their best to educate the public opinion
upon a given public subject —they enlist the public sympa-

thy in the question on which they address their fellow,

countrymen—and then they think that it would be possible
for a Government to remain in a state of cold isolation, and
not be affected by that public sympathy which they them-

selves have been the first to raise and foster. (Hear, hear
Now, mind, I do not at all blame these gentlemen for taking
this position before their countrymen. On the contrary, I
think it is desirable that the public opinion of the country
should not only be brought to have its due weight and in-
fluence on the Government of the country, but that the
opinion of an enlightened nation such as this, holding the
foremost rank among the nations of the world, should
have its just, its legitimate influence and weight in the
councils of sovereigns, where it is required, and upon
the destinies of nations wherever it can be properly exer-
cised. (Cheers.) it is the doctrine of these gentlemen
that we are not in any way to in'erfere, because they
say that the expression of opinion, unless it is to be folio wed
up by active measures, is a course we ought to avoid. Now
it is there I differ from them, They say that we ought not
to have interfered with reference to the question between
Denmark and Germany. Now Ido not agree with them,
What has been the result of all that has been passing on the
continent of Europe within the last few months ? Look at
Prussia. Prussia has one of the most intellectual people in
Europe, has a great army, has an important strategic mili-
tary position, and is certainly a country that ought to be one
of the greatest leading powers, influencing the destinies of
the world. The people ot that country—educated, intellec-
tual, and liberal in their aspirations, have long wished to
possess that great blessing which we now enjoy in the shape
of constitutional liberty ; and I am sure there is no English-
man here, or in any part of the country, who, valuing the
privileges which he himself enjoys, would not say, "It will
be a blessed day when these privileges are extended to other
parts of the world." (Cheers.) Now, the position of Prussia
before the recent war was ths. There existed every hope
that a wider extension of constitutional. government would
be given by the King of Prussia. But what has been the
result ? Every liberal aspiration is extinguished. There is
no hope of freedom at this moment in the length and breadth
of Prussia. Everything is under military rule. All that
they look at is an extension of territory, and an increase of
military prestige. Is that, looking in the widest and most
liberal sense upon the map of Europe—is that what any
Englishman would desire? Go a little further south. Look
at Austria. Some three short years ago we had every hope
of seeing a wide extension of constitutional privileges and
liberty in Austria. There was established a Parliament—l
will not say upon the model of our own—but yet having
similarities and traced out in some measure upon the shape
and form of our own. We saw that instituted, and we
entertained hopes that the effects of it would be great and
advantageous. But what is the result? I will not say they
have gone back— because they have not—but every prospect
of progress is stopped. There is a direct, and close, and in-
timate union between the despotic military governments of
Europe; and that which promised the fairest fields for
constitutional liberty is now a blank desert, and none of us
can look to it with hope or anticipation. (hear, hear.)
I am only pointing out those things as illustrative of my
own opinion, which I submit for your acceptance. (Cheers.)
And it is this—that while I hold it to be the bounden duty
of every man who holds an important position in the
councils of his country not to engage hastily, nor to pledge
the country by an ill-advised proceeding, by, an ill-con-
ceived despatch, to interference in the domestic affairs of
another country—while we hold ourselves aloof as far as
we can from interfering in the affairs of those around us—
yet to sit down in a cold isolation, to say we will have nothing
to do with our neighbours, to tie up our knockers and close
our doors and say, " We will have nothing to do with -
you,"
is an impossible policy in the first instance.
mean and degrading to us as a natty 'en • and beyond 'd would be
that, •
looking to the interests whi'' '
_ea providence has committed to
our care—not only +' promotion of liberty amongst those
around us, le the extension of liberty amongst all the nations
of tslse world—it is impossible for us to remain in that state
of isolation, and we must make our name, our character, and
our weight felt in every quarter of the globe. (Cheers.)
There is one other topic to which I will just refer, and that
is an important speech-recently delivered by one whom I
am proud to have callttl in past times a colleague of mine,
and of whom I may say this—that it is only a very few
public questions at all that we have ever had the slightest
difference of opinion, but have been found acting together
in cordial harmony. The speech to which I allude was
that recently delivered by Lord Stanley, and he has ex-
pressed one opinion in which I cannot agree. He has said
that he viewed with no repugnance the eatablishreent
of two great military monarchies in Germany in the place
of those which at present rule the destinies of that
country. Fur my own part I have never found, either in
history or in late experience, that a military monarchy,
which in fact amounts to nothing more or less than a mili-
tary despotism, is conducive either to the liberty of the
people or to the peace of the world. So far from that,
believing as I do that the development of constitutional go-
vernment among the nations of Europe is that which, as a
principle, we are bound as far as we can to acknowledge—for
it is that for which we ourselves have struggled—we ought
to look forward to their struggles with hope, and very Ran-
grains anticipations. Believing also that the existence of
constitutional governm.;ut will go fP.rthcr to secure the
peace cf Barest., end cone: sea _r, tie- the spread of all its bless-
hags amongst the nations which obtain that constitutional
government, I deprecate as far as I can any transaction
that 61141 establish in the heart of Europe those two great
military monarchies, becaueo I do not believe them likely
to conduce to the welfare of Europe and the peace of the
world. It has been said that, with the exception of that deb
bate, that the session was a dull one, and that did very
little. It is not for me, or for any w
ember ot Parliament,
to say what good we do ; but of this I am quite certain,
that the public are wrong is judging of the value of the
labours of members of Parliament by imp test of the great

and important divisions and party questions that may arise.

There is a vast amount of legislation quietly carried on, to

which some of the most intelligent, energetic, and active
minds in Parliament are constantly devoted. A great de-
gree of attention is required to those subjects on the part of
every man who seeks to gain anything like an important

position in Parliament, of which the public are totally un-
aware, but which is of the greatest value to the public inte-
rests ; and I am perfeetly sure of this—although at the
present time there is a wide distinction between both siies
of the house—there are a great many questions affecting
the interests of the country to which the minds of men on

both sides are directed, and in respect of which the public

are indebted to them for their constant and incessant la-

bours, and their best and most devoted energies. Passing
from last year, let me say a word or two as to the future.

We are told that next year—because we are going in a
short time to present ourselves to our constituents, probably
in the middle of the next summer--that the next session

will bo one which no great questions will be discussed, and
that it will be a humdrum, short, stupid session, something
like the latter days of an old man who sits in his arm
chair reading the newspaper, and does no good with re-
gard to anybody. (Laughter.) That is said to be our

position. Now Ido not believe it. I believe there are ques-
tions that may probably come before us of the greatest im-
portance to every one of us—questions which I do not think
will raise mach difference between the two sides of the

house so far as principle is concerned. We are told there is
to be great retrenchment in tho public expenditure. Well,

I suppose we are all taxpayers, and there is no man who
pays taxes who does not wish to see those taxes reduced.

(Hear.) There is not a single man throughout the country
who does not feel acutely the demand made upon him by the
tax gatherer for the immediate payment of a tax. (Hear,
hear.) We are told the reductions are to take place with
regard to the army and the navy. Now I wish to say a word
or two on that subject. There is no one who is not aware

of this fact that the matter does not rest with the opinions
of members of Parliament, but that Parliament being the
reflection of the opinion of the country, it rests with all of
you who are taxpayers to say in what respect retrenchment
shall take place—how far they will approve of it, and how
far they disapprove of it. I will first take the case of the
army. lam one of those who sit side by side with other
members on the front benches of the Opposition in the House
_ _

of Commons. We have been of opinion for some'years that
the military expenditure of the country might have been re-
duced without in the slightest degree endangering the effi-

ciency of that branch of our establishment. fbelieve that to
Le the case at the present time, and I am certain there is not

one man amongst those who take a prominent and leading

part in the debates in the House of Commons on our side of
the house, who will not be found ready to support to the very
utmost any ruch reduction in the estimates for the army as
shall not interfere with the efficiency of that most important
service. (Cheers.) It has been pointed out over and over
again that the great expenditure incurred is net in the main-
tenance of an efficient armyor equipping it in a proper man-
ner; neither is it in the cost of those great works which have
been undertaken for the fortification of our harbours and ar-
senals, respecting which some difference of opinion existed.
These are not the points where there is any possibility of
great retrenchment. For I defy anyone to look into our
military establishments and not to see this—that one great
source of expenditure, which is not the hundreds and
thousands, but the millions, that disappear in the most ex-
traordinary manner is in keeping up not an army of soldiers
but an army of clerks. (Hear, hear.) Ido not believe that
the time will ever come when this country will be saved by
an army cf clerks, and I hope the time will never arrive
when it may be necessary to save it by an army of our gal-
lant defenders in the field, but if money is to be expended—
if the taxes are to be raised—if you are to feel the pressure
of maintaining the efficiency of our military establishments,
let it be in providing an efficient army, and not in providing
an army of clerks. (Cheers.) Well, now with reference
to the navy. There I think the case is different. I do not see
my way to any great and important reduction in that ser-
vice. I believe that a certain economy may be judiciously
exercised, but our navy is in a state of transition, and I
think no Government in this cguntry ought to be satisfied
until we have upon the seas the most perfect and efficient
navy that modern science and the resources of the country
can provide. (Cheers ) That navy we do not possess at
present. We have one or two fine vessels, but it is very
doubtful whether these will be the type for the construction

ot.our fleets for the future. We do not posses the best artil-
lery that should be applicable to the purposes of watfare al

sea, and until we possess the finest vessels in the world and
the finest artillery also, «e ought not to falter in our course

or haggle about money, but use our utmost endeavours to

plaeo the country in that position which she has always occu-
pied, and which I hopo she will still continue to occupy.
(Cheers,) There is ono other subject on which I should like
to say a word, not with the view of intimating my own opi-
nion so much as with the desire of meeting insinuations or

objections that have been directed against those with whom
for many years I have had the honour to act. The time
may be near, may be very near, when again the question of
representative reform may be introduced to the constituencies
of the country. lam not going to enter into the merits of
any past scheme or to bore you by any practical reference to
that question ; but at the present moment this tone is taken
by men who address great public constituencies and meet-
ings in the country. They say :—" The country at the
present time may not be active in demanding Reforin, but
what we desire to point out is, that the aristocracy and the
dominant class desire to keep the working man from the
enjoyment of his rights and privileges," and they try by
that means to raise a class feeling on the part of the working
men against the aristocracy, the landed class, those who
are placed over them in this country. What I wish to say
is this, that there never was a greater libel uttered against
the leading and higher classes in this country than such
an insinuation. (Hear, hear.) I will ask you to look
through the history of the last few years and say whether
it is a fact that the landed gentry, the aristocracy, the
clergy, have shown themselves adverse to the rights of the
working classes. Take the instance of the committee which
is now distributing the magnificent bounty of the nation to
those who are suffering from poverty and distress in Lan.
cashire. Who is it that is devoting not merely hours but
days and nights to the constant and most laborious inves-
tigation of every case—to the investigation of figures the
most minute—to labours which gentlemen engaged in com-
merce would shrink from attempting ? Is it one of them ?
Is it the gentlemen who are agitating on public platforms
and saying we are the masters of the working men, ? No ;
it is the man who is in the proudest position as regards
rank and wealth, who only the other day was Prime Mini-
ster of England, and who at this moment holds as high a
place in the affections of the working men of Lancashire as
he does of respect and admiration among the higher classes
of his countrymen. (Loud cheers.) I wish not to throw a
slur on those who are connected with the great com-
mercial transactions of the country—on such men as
Sir W. Brown, Sir Frank Crossley, or Sir David
Baxter—men who have made their wealth by the toil
of their artisans and workmen, and have spent their
money in a munificent and princely manner for the
benefit of those around them ; who have earned some of
the highest distinctions which the Sovereign could confer
upon them, and the greatest respect amongst their own class.
I am not claiming any undue merit for the landed gentry ;
but there are agitrtors who go among the working classes
and tell them that the higher classes are interfering between
them and their natural rights. (Hear, hear.) Why, who
was it that in past years secured for the working class—for
the women and children throughout the manufacturing dise
tricts, a diminution in the hours of labour ? Was it these
men who are now agitating on every platform in England?
No ; it was the landed gentry who took the lead--it was the
aristocracy—those who are held up as the enemies of the
working man, who seemed for them thelbenefits which they
now enjoy. (Cheers.) I do not intend to enter into the
question of Representative Reform. I hope no one will
make this question of Reform, after it has been dropped for
years, the stepping-stone to popularity, in order
F's, agitate
the country in the expectation of an el,-tton, in the vain
hope, as I believe, of contc--- •
....wing themselves in power by ap•
pealing to prei-
worked
„sexes and passions which may easily be
-
...on, particularly at a time when there is great dis
acre; existing. (Hear, hear.) I will only say this, that I
believe there is no class of men more anxious to have ajust
extension of the franchise consistent with the Conservative
institutions of the country than those who have so long been
the leaders of the Conservative party, But the difficulty is
that no plan has yet been proposed for the enlargement of
the suffrage, which, while extending it to a lower class,
should not extend it so largely as to enable that class to
sweep away all the other interests of the country. I am
not going to have anything to do with a Reform Bill. But
it is for the Ministry which stakes its reputation upon giv-
ing this boon to the working classes to show that it can be
given consistently with the maintenance of those institu-
tions which one and all are determined to uphold. (Cheers.)
I am ashamed of having spoken so long; but as I have
not had the opportunity of addressing you recently, and
as I shall not be able for some time to take up my resi-
dence amongst you, and profit by that constant inter-
change of opinion with those whose confidence I
have enjoyed for so many years, I have ventured to trespass
more at length than I have done on previous occasions. But
I trust that nothing I have said has grated upon the feeling
of any ono, although ho may differ from me in political
opinion ; for that was not my object in the remarks which
I have addressed to you. (Rear.) I have referred to the
state of Europe. I believe we are approaching serious times.
The differences between nations are now likely to be not
quarrel, upon political c:rcumstances or events as they have
been in past times, but they are likely to be differences
arising from diversify of origin, from matters of religion,
and from other questions of great principle. Ido look for-
word to the growth of the military spirit on the Continent,
with great apprehension and alarm. I look for we'd to this
intimate understanding between great military Powers
with more than alarm. I think there are dark and gloomy
days before us. But I believe, it this country is true Co
itself, whatever storms may arise, however the winds may
blow from every part of Europe, whatever the dangers that
may menace us, this country can hold its own, as for many
a year it has held its own, and that its reputation and influ-
ence with the world will remain as paramount as ever it
has been in years gone by.
The hon gentleman resumed hie seat amidst loud and pro-
longed cheering.
Several other toasts were afterwards given and responded
to, and the party then separated.