The Sun.
London, England, 1864-02-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

nOIJSE OF "LORDS— Last Evening,
The LORD CHANC3dLLOR took his seat upon the woolsack
at five e clock.

RAILW.&YS IN THE METROPOLIS.

Earl POWIS seeing the noble earl, the President of
the GAlncil, in his place, begged to ask whether he could
state the course the Government intended to pursue with
'respect to the projected railways within the metropolis. He
thought it was absolutely necessary that some control
should. be exercised over the numberless projects about to be
broug'ht under their consideration.
Eon GRANVILLE said the question was certainly one
of great importance, and it had frequently been under the
consideration of the Government during the recess. They
had arrived at the conclusion that the best way of dealing
with the subject would be found in the recommendation of
the committee which was appointed by their lordships last
year. One of those recommendations was that the Board of
Trade should report on the subject, which had been done, and
another was that a committee should be appointed by Par-
liament to further consider the subject. In accordance
with that recommendation it was proposed to move
for a committee in the other house, and in the event
of its being done, then he proposed to move for a similar
committee in their lordships' house, and supposing there
should be no objection, the two committees would act as
oete, and by that means the subject would receive the best
and most careful consideration.
THE ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.
The Archbishop of YORK moved for copies of two re-
ports of committees of the Ecclesiastical Commission. His
object was to remove from their lordships' mind the im-
pression that the Ecclesiastical Commission was receiving
much and doing little.
The Earl of RAVENS\VORTII complained that the
right rev. prelate had altogether omitted all reference to a
large item set down as the cost of management, which he
believed amounted to something little short of Z 50,000 per
annuns., lie thought the time had now arrived when it
should be fully considered whether the Ecclesiastical Com-
mission., as at present constructed, was the beat body for
dealing with such large sums of money as came under their
control.

The Archbishop of CANTERBURY defended the
committee from the charge of extravagance. There was
tile cost of three large establishments included in the charge
for management, and he did not think their lordships
would consider £50,000 too much, when it was considered
that they had to deal with property valued at £30,000,000.
The Earl of PO W IS objected to the large amount charged
fur management.
The Bishop of LONDON said the ecclesiastical members
of the Commission were not responsible for the financial
arrangements of the Commission. They were con-
ducted by that portion of it which was presided over
by the noble earl (Chichester), who ho saw in his place,
which was termed the "estates committee,"
The Earl of CHICHESTER defended the course taken
by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners.
The Bishop of ST, ASAPH said that the house was not
sufficiently aware of the complicated nature of the property
which came into the hands of the Ecclesiastical Commis-
s-icners. This entailed heaN=y expenses, which were, how-
ever, in great part incurred only once, and ceased when the
arrangements of the property became simplified. He be-
lieved that the disappointment which had been felt in re-
ference to the Ecclesiastical Commission arose from the
mtaggerated expectations which had been entertained in
respect to it. He believed that the entire ecclesiastical re-
venues of the country wet e inadequatefor the payment of the
clergy as they ought to be paid, Nothing satisfactory could
be accomplished without the aid of private liberality,

In reply to Lord CHELMSFORD,
The LORD CHANCELLOR promised within a few
clays to lay en the table returns showing the working of
tne Act for the sale of the poor livings in the gift of the
Lord Chancellor, Ho had been fortunate enough to sell
L early 40 livings. Eat in consequence of some clauses in
the original bill, which enabled him to augment small liv-
ings, having been rejected, he had been unable to sell a single
living under Ll2O a year in value. The prices obtained for
the livings sold had exceeded his most sanguine expects-
T runty or thirty more slles were in progress, and,
non the whole, he considered the working of the act had
moot satisfactory.

The motion was ther. agreed. to, and the house a3journe,.l
a quarter past six o'clock.

SOUSE OF COMMONS-- Last Evening.

The SPEAKER. took the chair at four o'clock.
NEW MEMBERS.

Sir RounJell Palmer, the Attorney-General; Sir R. P.
Collier, the Solicitor-General; took the oaths and their
seats on their re• election respectively for Richmond and
Plymouth.
THE COURT-MA.RTIAL ON COT,. CRA.WLEY.
Mr. FOIITESCUE asked the Under Secretary of State
for War whether he would lay upon the table of the
house the proceedings of the late court martial on
Colonel Crawley, together with the plans referred to in the
evidence : and whether, with a view to the elucidation of
such plans, an opportunity would be afforded to members
of the 110U343 of inspecting the models produced before the
court martial.

The Marquis of HARTINGTON said it was not desir-
able generally to lay proceedings of courts-martial before
the house, but under the peculiar circumstances of the
present case, if the honourable member would move for
the production of the documents in question, they as well
as the plans would be laid on the table.

MALTA
Sir G. BO WYER asked the Ueder Secretary of State for
the Co:enies whether Government had received a petition
from Malta, praying for reforms in the constitution and
government of the island ; and whether it would be laid
before Parliament ?
Mr. C. FORTESCUE had not heard of any such hav-
ing been received, or being expected to be received.
Sir L. PALE. asked the President of the Board of Trade
whether a cargo from a Prussian port, consigned to an
English morehant, on English account, would be respected
in case of capture, so that it might be reshipped in an Eng-
lish ship ?
Mr. M, GIBSON said that the case referred to a cargo
on board of a Prussian vessel. He supposed Denmark
was a party to the declaration of the treaty of Paris, by
which goods of a neutral country under a foreign flag would
be respected by that country.
THE ADDRESS TO THE ROYAL SPEECH.

Lord RICHARD GROSVENOR brought up the report
on the Address to the Royal Speech, which was read.
Mr. WHITESIDE objected to that portion of the
seconder's speech which spoke of the internal prosperity of
the empire, although he bore testimony to his high ability.
Bow could that apply to Ireland ? He quoted the words
of Lord Macaulay as to the vast importance of Ireland to
the Imperial interests, before which dwarfed all our colo-
nial possessions. Ile alluded to the statements of the
right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer last
year relative to the state of Ireland, which he described as
much depressed as it was painful. He cited the state-
ments of other gentlemen to show that the prospects of the
country had undergone no improvement. He described
the legislation of the right hon. gentleman (the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer) on two important branches
of production which affected land, namely, distil-
leries and paper, as most injurious. He quoted statis-
tics furnished, by certain paper manufacturers in Ireland
in support of his argument. Two of those paper manufac-
turers resided in Galway and the county of Cork. The
result was that a large number of persons were thrown out
of employment. The emigration from Ireland between the
years 1841 and 1863 was 2,718,567, and that emigra-
tion was increasing. Mill was a political economist
of great ability, from whom they might differ, and whom
it was often difficult to answer. According to his
theory cottiers or possessors of only one acre should
be displaced, which would amount to 40,000 such posses-
sors and their families, and if the same principle was
extended to holders of five acres, 14,000 with their families
would be expelled from the land. If the doctrine were
sill further extended it would depopulate the country to
the extent of ,0130,000. (Hear, hear,) After some
further observations to the same point, ho thought
that there should have been some expression of sympathy
for the suff_rers in Ireland, similar to that with respect
to Manchester. He had no hope of improvement from
the efforts of the local government in Ireland. The
referred in humorous terms to
right hon. gentleman having .
the statement of the memoer tor Stroud (Mr. -llorsman) when
had nothing to do, next
Secretary for Ireland, that he
adverted in the same strain to Sir Robert Peel,' whom
having dashed. into the country,
he described as
and represented himself like Julius Cessar to the Senate.
Veni vidi vici. (Laughter.) He deprecated the exclusion
from the Government of Ireland of its native property and
intelligence.
Sir R. P-L'IlL was sorry his right hon, friend had not
adopted the recommendation made by the leader of the op.
position, and abstained from introducing a controversy on
the address in answer to the speech from the throne. Al-
lusion had been made to what it was asserted had been the
subject of common conversation in the Four Courts at
and his right hon. friend had drawn an amusing
picture of what he wished the house to believe was the state
of the Government officers in Ireland. He (Sir R. Peel)
would earnestly assert his belief that those matters were
not so bad as had been stated. With reference to the sub-
ject referred to there might no doubt have been some ineig-
elificant difference of Opinion among the members of the Go-
vernment ; but as regards the members of the local govern-
ment in Ireland he could assure the house there was very
little truth in the statements made by his right hon. friend.
(Laughter.) Reference had also been made to some gossip
about an "Old Tory." His right hon. friend might surely
have abstained from introducing a subject of that kind in a
discussion like the present. In reply to the assertion that
Ireland was governed by Larcom and the police, be begged
to remind his right hon, friend that General Larcom held
the post he now so ably occupied during the time his right
hon, friend was in power. The right hon. gentleman was
wrong in his statistics respecting the number of emi-
grants. The truth was that, between 1851 and 1863
about 1,400,000 emigrated from the country. He was