The Sun.
London, England, 1852-09-13 00:00:00

1. SEPTEMBER 13, 1852.

companies in the world were contending for their line;
over and over again the directors had appealed to the
North-Western Company for a guarantee, however
small ; but they
by the North-Western Cemaplaiislear
would guarantee nothing—the
answer was that they
cent. for the line.that
proposition to
those terms provided
his
_He came down with
it
could
urdlyd
be not
arranged gi re
to 2 giveper
refused it ; but so humble
They unanimously
h and so anxious
were they that they said would accept even
them a fixed portion of trouffie
They were nce•nd"
and they then That was rejected
a guarantee, but they offered an interchange Companyd for. a
disposed
of
traffic
give
un-
doubtedly went to the Great
to lay down the broad guage to Liverpogol
traffic agreement. The
wasto run
e
on their line, and to pay their toll. That;raffic ;
agreement which had been entered into with the
Great Western.—(Cries of " No, no; no agreement.")
Yes, and it had the seal of the company to it, in con-
sequence of the vote of the largest meeting of their
shareholders which had ever assembled.—(Hear.)
After, this it was that the North-Western Company
came forward with the bait of 41 per cent. He con-
tended, however, that they were bound both in law
and honour to the Great Western Company, and that
regarded simply as an arrangement, it was preferable
to the offer now made by the North-Western. Mr.
Roy then retaliated at some length upon Mr. Monro,
and asserted that that gentleman had offered to attend
at the last meeting but one, and support the directors,
if he were paid his expenses. Almost all the leading
me in the present movement had at one time strongly
advocated an arrangement with the Great Western,
and pre-eminent among those was Mr. Forbes. He
alluded to the pacific course which had been recom-
mended by Mr. Glyn with reference to the Shrews-
bury lines, and. contrasted it with the language em-
ployed in the circulars which had been issued, and
attributed it all, nevertheless, to the North-Western
Company.--(Hear, bear.)
Mr. TAUNTON apprehended that the main question
which the meeting had to decide was, whether the
directors were guilty or not of the grave charges
which had been brought against them, and whether
or not they were entitled to the confidence of the
proprietors. The meeting had listened with patience
and attention to the charges brought by Mr. Monro,
and to the answer of Mr. Roy, and he was convinced
that their verdict must be one of entire acquittal.—
(Hear, hear, and disapprobation.) He contended that
the directors had not had fair play shown them,
and that the circulars which had been issued against
them showed a dishonourable and un-English spirit.
If they wished to obtain dividend on their pro-
perty, let them not fetter nor unseat their present
directors.
Mr. WHALLEY (High Sheriff of Carnarvonshire)
said the simple question before them was whether
they should have four new directors upon the boar:l—
four gentlemen who were not committed to any par-
ticular line of policy—(Hear, hear, and Oh, oh !)
some of them learned in the law, astute men of
wealth, who, if any flaw existed in the agreement
with the Great Western Company, would discover it,
and, if it were deemed desirable for the interests of
the company to get out of it, would find some means
of doing so. He denounced the system which the
board had pursued towards those interested in mineral
traffic as most partial and unfair, and stated that he
had presented a petition to the Board of Trade, signed
by upwards of 100 of the trading interest of the dis-
trict, complaining that the mineral traffic was wholly
undeveloped, and that no acconernodotion was shown
to any but those connected with the directors' clique.
He contended that to reject the offer of the London
and North-Western would be a suicidal policy, and
in lengthened
that it would further postpone all hope of a dividend
to an indefinite period.
ugitbjoeyct of alleged
no confidence in
Mr. EAST (one of the gentlemen electedbaefdoirreectthoer
by,u,
foa
House
detailshg eeo
some
ost
vmhLoaetroeershdos,
evidenceddcee rco shareholders), ,rmeagidftittveteehrenaoat
hnnhyaetl
hyi‘heziairdns.
the present directors as a board, while he had every
possible objection to their policy. He objected to
them, among other things, because they were par-
tisans, and because they bad set the shareholders at
defiance.
Mr. Lowe denied the charge of partiality to certain
mineral traders brought forward by Mr. Whalley,
and stated that, :to his own knowledge, 70,0001. had
lately been invested in mineral works, not one far-
thing of which would have been so employed had it
not been for the facilities afforded by their railway.
They must remember that it was not a mere question
between 4i per cent. and nothing, for they had the
guarantee from the Great Western of 3i per cent.,
and he believed that in a few years they might expect
L 10, or even 15 per cent.—(Laughter.)
Mr. A. K. BAKER, who said he had been intrusted
with proxies representing a large amount of stock,
doubted very much whether they should ever get 41
per cent. from the North-Western, because first, he
st
e he the
doubted
termshte
dproposed;this
doubted the ability of the London and North-Western
to
secondly,coinp lybeca with
com-
pany to accept those terms ; and thirdly, because he
much questioned whether Parliament would sanc-
tion it. thtehepy power of of

A very irregular and confused discussion ensued,
in which Messrs. Roy, Whalley, Beattie, and others
took part ; and after a few words from Mr. Robert-
son, the engineer, who advocated the introduction of
the broad gauge into the district; and from Mr. H.
Brown, of Chester ;
Mr. MUNRO replied upon the whole case, and in-
dignantly repelled the insinuation that his ser-
vices were to be purchased. The course which he
had taken had been prompted by a due regard to the
large interest which he had in the concern. Lie
then called upon the chairman to put the resolution
which had moved.
The CHAIRMAN.—I am advised that the resolution

is altogether so informal that I cannot put so idle and
nugatory thing to the meeting.—(Cheers, hisses, and
great confusion.)
Mr. MONRO complained that the chairman had,
under these circumstances, allowed the proceedings
to go so far, and added, "Since you refuse to put
the question I shall do so myself."—Great inter-
ruption, cries of " Order," " Chair," " That's right,"
and the like.) He then at once put the resolution,
and, having called for a show of hands, declared it
to be carried by a large majority. Subsequently he
demanded a poll, and requested the chairman to de-
liver the usual books of the company, in which the
result might be recorded.
The CHAIRMAN refused to recognize the proceed-
ing, and declined to hand over the books.
Mr. MONRO and his coadjutors then commenced to
record such votes as were tendered upon loose sheets
of paper, and this continued for about half an hour
amidst great confusion, the polling being confined to
the adherents of the North-Western party, the direc-
tors' friends refusing to poll.
While this was proceeding, Mr. TAUNTON inquired
of the chairmen whether the directors had a majority
of the proxies ?
The CHAIRMAN said be believed they bad—a large
majority.
Mr. Comas then moved the adjournment of the
meeting till the 20th inst., when the consideration of
the subject for which they bad been convened should
be continued.
Mr. D. ROBINSON seconded the motion, which was
put by the chairman, and declared upon a show of
hands to be lost. A poll was then demanded upon
this motion. Scrutineers were duly appointed ;
the polling was fixed to take place on Monday (this
day), and the proceedings, which occupied nearly
seven hours, terminated.
The entrance to the meeting was, during the whole
sitting, guarded by the police.

---
RAILWAY SHARE MARKETS.
BRISTOL, SEPT. 11.
eossehdarweitmhaoruktetvarurilaetdiodnulinl tpo•ridcaeys.,
anSaTtOhCeS fewE
LIVERPOOL, SEPT. 11.
STOCK EXCHANGE.—There has been no material altera-
to-day,limited amount of business has been transacted. The only
sales reported were—Birkenhead, Lancashire, and Cheshire,
224 Shares, 4ye dis.—Eastern Counties, 11 Ya —Lancashire
and Yorkshire, 87 %.—Lancaster and Carlisle. Thirds, 11 p.—
xtcrilanAsxsE.—Th
tion in the railway share market and but a very
London and North-Western, 121—Ditto, Fifths, 3% p.—
Maryport and Carlisle, 34%—Midland, 77% —Ditto, New
Preference, 4% per cent., % P.—North-Western, 8 ki_...
South-Eastern and Dover, 217/B—Whitehaven and Furness,
7—York and North Midland, 2434, —Demerara, 7%.
MANCHESTER, SEPT. 11.
STOCK EXCHANGE. —The share market was firm to-day,
but there was not much business doing. The transactions
were as follow :—Birkenhead, Lancashire, and Cheshire June.:
tion, 814 dis.—Lancashire and Yorkshire,B7—Manchestertanq
Birmingham (C), Quarters, 1 13-16 p.—Midland (guarai.l,.ee a
V/2 per cent.),' p.—South-Eastern and Dover, 21 13-1°
• BIRMINGHAM, SErr. 11.
generally de-
STOCK EXCHANGE.—The market has
been - e were few
pressed throughout the week, and to-day
citaliter_
buyers in the market. Midlands were quote 76.

----
LOSS OF LIFE.— On Wednesday evening the
Humboldt, Bremen ship, manned by freigners, with emi-
grants for Australia, chartered by the Land and Coloniza-
tion Commissioners, when off the Shag stone, near Ply.
mouth, lost three of her crew in fishing the anchor. \V hile
the men were thus engaged one of the a
seamenwas was
owereg
over by the chain, and immediately boatd,
witth the chief officer and two seamen in it, to rescue the
man ; it capsized, and they were all precipitated into
who
the
water. One of the seaman was rescued y the pilot,
short distance from the shi
observed the accident when a p,
but the other three sunk.

.IRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS.
PROM THE MORNING PAPERS OF THIS DAY.
TIMES.—It is with some surprise that we observe
in an able contemporary a depreciation of the Peru-
vian title to the Lobos Islands, and an approval of the
American resolution to approprite, without payment
really imagine
the deposits they contain. We did not
that this claim of common right to the
--successors.
oproslaiecsesniosen,
of
an i
any deliberate advocates
sent State would have found
on the British side of the
Atlantic.he
almost
superfluous, To recapitulate
vr
iraenn
shore,isl et s an 4
h the points of the case must
lieeu but is
Withina t a nays
score
ee
oeasy.
two Thesemiles
are so situate, that both
rbuaand the landward
groups are visible to
rockyot
hf fe th
seawardeanPde
sailing between
nb etthwoseee n
parts.the
any
ye
ovaesstaienlg
the Peruvian Government to have been considered
from time immemorial as pertaining
Tthheeyare
authority, ordinaryale
agnedd coursehy
to its proper
In proof
af-
terwards
underfirst under
ita the
Republican Spanishill
of this assertion it is shown that many ancient and
names, which are Spanish, as comprised
well-executed maps describe them specially by
within the
Spanish Viceroyalty of Peru ; and that no maps de-
scribe them as pertaining ]otherwise. One map of
of the last century, Peru, distinctly containing the "Isolas de los Lobos,"
is to all appearance two centuries old. Alcedo, the
geographer, in his work printed in 1787, enumerates
among the " nations and principal places of Peru,"
twelve islands, or groups of islands, among which is
"Lobos." The name,
as many of our correspondents
their
have recently remarkd urs repeatedly in voyages
of such a fact couldand,y be implied
expected, it isn
that the territory belongs
whereas no otherWeGe to Peru. The Peruvian
Government is i
-n actual possession of the islands,
al inkye
occupation
pretensions. ntaitstitlooenn snt.
and claims to have been •
Government
cevi
uaaoe cpan
fricinnewsmduheben_stiewsvtee,hr
has
teeh
v. e e
r. Intimationp uttheforth
be
pos-
sibility be stronogoetrui,taleoeand, if
maintaining that territory so valuableclotilns
ehotpolhe a t all.
tsucnhotpaonaseussion always,
whereas
the world quarrelling for it, has is territory
heldcou
e it
enough
ob with-
outcTohnestoitludtenoittiothnethpraitydaeteseprrtolpaenrdt,y
worth nobody's while to occupy, should be deemeditwas
the disposal of all corners, was highly natural int. at
when this very desolation carried with it the presump-
tionimea
of worthlessness. It was reserved for moder
ages to discover a treasure which not only renders the
non-habitability of a territory compatible with ex-
ceeding value, but actually makes the former condi-
tion indispensable to the latter. It is precisely
because the Lobos Islands have never been
occupied by man that they were frequented by
birds, and that their extraordinary riches have been
acquired. If no State can possess territory without
occupying it, then no State can possess guano terri-
tory at all, for the former possession would infallibly
destroy the latter. Fifty or a hundred years ago the
Lobos Islands were of no known value to attract no-
tice or remark. It is preposterous to expect that the
title of Peru to such property should be demonstrable
by any public recognitions of the fact, but all the
evidence that could be anticipated is fairly enough
forthcoming. It is plain that the islands must neces-
sarily have been discovered by the settlers of the
main, and presumable with something very like cer-
tainty that such settlers as Spaniards in the 16,h
century would take them into their dominions. Ac-
cordingly we find them designated by characteristic
Spanish names, included in the Spanish maps of this
Spanish province, and enumerated by careful geo-
graphers among Spanish possessions. What more
could be looked for we are at a loss to see. Against
this it is argued that they lie at a greater distance
from the main land than that which would make
them appendages of such land by the maxims of
public law. But this is no more than saying
that the Peruvian title lacks that particular
quality which would remove it from discussion
altogether. Islands within three miles of a
coast pertain to that coast ipso facto, but there is
no reason why islands beyond this distance should not
pertain to it likewise. Of the Isles of Wight, Scilly,
Man, Lundy, and a hundred others belonging to Great
Britain, how many are within three miles of the
English shore? Discovery and occupation constitute
a title as good, though not always as palpable, as that
of proximity. That the Spanish discoveries of 1574
preceded the notable exploit of " Benjamin Morel],
jun.," in 1823, we need not be at pains to remark,
while, as to occupation, there was as much as the case
admitted. The Peruvian Government asserts that its
Indian subjects have always maintained lodgments cf
huts upon the islands, but that the practice has been FIRES AND LOSS OF LIFE.
discouraged, for the very reason specified above, that Yesterday morning (Sunday) a fire of a very swi-
ft was destructive of their staple produce. If no ous character broke out in one of the largo ware-
people are to possess lands which they do not inhabit, houses numbered 30 in Londcn-wall, occupied con-
what becomes of the title to half the American contie j ointly by Messrs. Brown and Co., the extensive
vent? It is not correct to say that the Peruvians have drysalters ; Messrs. Gibbing, Brothers, varnish ma-
only claimed the sovereignty. in question from the nufacturers ; Mr. Thomas Tarn, carpet weaver;
time that guano deposits acquired their value. They Messrs. Springfield and Co., silk merchants; and
asserted it long before after the only fashion that the Messrs. Dobson and Co., ale and porter merchants.
case then seemed to invite, for nobody will assert that The premises, which had a frontage of sixty feet,
Gib-
property as long as it appeared the Spanish title has not descended to the present
twheeretimalemoofstthaes
odueethp,reaankdthfeorusertowfleekoroeorsfinoio,fnt:shmeeersoisgkrahaer.tt.iliAehs.:
State of Peru. They took little heed of their outlying
unproductive. As bins's stores upwards of 4,000 gallons of prepared
theyoorf lan
land
wl' shallo ttforthwithoasetseetshheotawlaf varnish, besides an immense
soon as its worth became known
guard upon it, and their right of jurisdiction in this almost of as inflammable a character. In Messrs.
respect was never denied. As to any privilege ac- Springfields' warehouse was a stock of silk, roughly
par t-
quired by usage, they are surely beside the real valued at 2,0001, while Messrs. Brown's com
point at issue. If the Americans have fished or meats were filled with nearly every description of
:in one of the back streets, whose attene
" sealed" off the coast at discretionthat
fihfoerrt6yo
still,y ersj,ntsht they gusoeodd shyus.aeidr. iTn
artnheaiar
abusiness.
factory, Tanhde top
was flfiototredwuaps
may perhaps expect to enjoy
pcteeadrsbytoanhauvneubsueeanl
body
yde by some
the British commander in the Pacific 18 years ago with sixteen large looms filled with yarn for weaving
a remarks,
title
c can
n to s
seen
npe
angroeundatinity.o_
sonsdt
jiosacowyl
ieavrsiyndgiar The
thought that the English bad acquired a right of carpets, and other valuable pieces of machinery.
per-
deposits?fis her y . But
Our canthi s co n
contemporaryvey
with approbation, that Americans o
hover-
ference, as to right, between catching seals and ing over the building. In a brief period the Royal
gathering birds' dung on the Lobos rocks." It is to Society's escapes attended, followed by the on • f
be hoped, under the circumstances, that they will ' see the London brigade from Whitecroesastreet, W
engines o
some difference' between catching codfish and gather- street, and Jeffreys-square stations . a ings.
'2 as well as that of
estsof our North American the pariah. Under the directioning fruit, otherwise the hary . of Mr. Superinten-
colonists are likely to be inA right of way dent Braidwood and M
danger. . r. pogo, the chief officer of the
through a field does not carry with it the privilege of districtA,
andthepresentof casework, it was then expectedthat the fire would
more faithfully set forth in an article in the New be extinguished in the course of a very few minutes,
York Journal of Commerce, which we transcribed on and before much damage could be done. IJnfor-
Friday last. In this honest confession it was plainly tunately such was not the •the firemen
case, for while
urged, that as guano was necessary for the production were actively employed in
the water the
of wheat and wheat for the sustenance of man, it eves flames rushed through o
windows• at the back,
not allowable in any nation to put its own price on a distance of several feet.n eof
The the
daught thus given
such a treasure—an argument which we trust will be by the broken window caused the destructive element
recollected by the Americans themselves in their sales to extend almost with therapidity of electricity, and,
of " bread-stuffs," for, if that which makes corn having travelled up the staircase, it took complete
ought to be common property, a fortiori ought corn possession of the second floor, used by Messrs. Gib-
Fortunately the
itself to be so; and it will be unendurable that the hi,
-us as one of their warehouses.
valley of the Mississippi should " lock up," or part
Principal stock of varnish and other inflammable
with only on its own terms, a commodity which half articles was not in that part of the premises, but,
Europe is craving for. By way, however, of reduc- upon Mr. rye B •Iwo od finding tbat so large a stock was
ing the question to a point, and, as WE33 evidently in the he at once sent off for the assis-
ground floor,
intended, to an absurdity, the American jour- engines in the Southwark- bridge.road,
tance of his
nalist concisely asked whether "the twenty or t t Holborn, and Chandos-street
twenty - Ferringdou-stree ,
tbe time this extra aid arrived the
five vessels which had left the United States to bring stations. BY -
guano from the Lobos Islands could be expected flames had wee nded to the staircase, and were working
to come back empty ?" We rememberinto Mr. Teen carpet manufactory. Subjoined is a
ah similar
inquiry being once made by a dog-stealer,copy f the officiel pompr of the damage done :
whether, when he had been up n 'w n asked. °Sept. 12, at 12 A.M.—Called by a
night after night" " Sunday'
watching for a certain spaniel, beoff stranger to a fire at No. 30, London-wall, City, which
without any reward at all ? Accord' wasl to coma I
did the following damage :—Messrs. Brown and Co.,
m y the Journal
of Commerce recommended that Perudrysalters.—First floor—The counting-house burnt
should ' d
nify these adventurous vessels by theirem out, and contents of warehouse adjoining seriously
charters," and then come y " buying up
mg.
damaged by fire and water. The stock in trade, &c.,
having reference to the de to
of an
colourunderstanding.
of not insured. The cause of fire unknown. The build-
title which each nation,,,g.ree "title ot-
.Inerico, tog is the property of the Mercers' Company, and is
2. e., Peru and A supposed to be insured in the Royal Exchange Fire.
" may be able to American
present." What the
" titl " is me office. Engines that attended, seven cf th
e most English readers have by this ti
d that f h e brigade
learnt. The islands• either common an c e parish. Gas was burnt on the pre-
are incontestably ei
Govern- mises, and the fire was extinguished by
property or Peruvian property. Our own London
no less than the establishment. Messrs. Gibbins
the firemen of
meat, by the mouth of Lord Palmerston
the varnish makers and oilmen—ground and Co.,
ly admitted
that of Lord Malmesbury, has bone;ft
the latter State the second flaor nearly burntand second floors,
prima facie claims of Peru,. andt. tion to hich it known. Mr. Thomas Tarn c out.o Insurance not
has not always exercised theme ole
that they` com- —stock and machinery seriOu lax.' €t maker, top floor
pretended, it must be rem
abebereyance just as long. water, and rest of building s y damaged by fire and
mon" claims were kept in - - themselves Legal and Commercial
the other bestirred le ire-offl
Neither one party nor
was to be gained. Both field and Co., silk mere' ce. Messrs. Spring-
in the matter till something time • tk f "tits, warehouse on the second
about .
t the same, but, whereas , floor —s oc o raw silk •
took active steps is as plain as it could be ax- fire, water, &c. considerately damaged by
•le of Peru nsurance not known. Messrs.
the previous tit .
nothing whatever to warrant Dobson and Co.Cthere is basement,
bottle ale and porter
petted to be, licen of rovers at lare. merchantsstock
the indiscriminate damaged by water, &c. Insurance
RA D--The public conduct gigs man like unknown."
"-- 14 is a fair subject of criticism ; but the cri- Yesterday
Mr. Webster
should be fair. An ' t t. a most dest '
inquiry in o mo ives
ticism itself l ructive fire, caused by an ignition and ex-
is at best a mereloss time.
of It removes discus- plosion of gas, and attended with loss of life, took
• from matters which admit of demonstration to place at the house of Mr. White, linendraper and
:ion
matters which can never be proved, and which, if hosier, 65, Middlesex-street, Somers-town. It ap.
they could, would concern us but little. We do not pears that about the time in question the servant girl
I
Participate in the solicitude of a morning contempo- went iato the shop with a candle, and the gas, v hick
rary to fix on Mr. Webster an electioneering motive it is believed had been improperly turned off on
in the position he assumed the other day in relation ,
Saturday night and filled the place, at once ignited
to our fisheries, or in the language he now holds re- ' arid exploded, setting fire to the combustible stock
specting the Lobos Islands. Indeed, as regards thand - • So rapid were the flames that the
e premises.
latter affair, the probabilities do not countenance the upsteir lodgers, who were seated at their dinner at
imputation, inasmuch as Mr.Webater's first statement ' the time, had great difficulty in effecting their es-
was confidential, was intended to remain private, cape by the windows. On the second floor lived a man
and, therefore, could not well have had any public named Balbam, with his wife and four children. Some
embroilment or agitation for its end. But, we re.. of them were thrown from the windows and caught
peat it, this sort of criticism is irrelevant, unprofit• by the police, a large body of the S division, rn•
able, and unworthy. It is not a little remarkable that der the orders of Inspector ChamPoePt being
the very same English journal which recently almost speedily on the spot from the new station-house
took part with Mr. Webster for the purpose of
i
,in Piatt-street.
'---'he poor man Balham, having
injuring and misrepresenting
our own Government, I lowered his wife, clung for scale time to the window-
is the journal which now labours to stigmatise him , sill, with, as he thought, the last child in his arms,
with these extra litem imputations. His conduct ii until arrangements were made below to catch him