The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-08 00:00:00

down to later times, they found that sovereigns like Henry
IV. of France and our own Elizabeth had formed a plan of
general pacification on the same principles; and coming
down to a still later period, the Spanish statesman Alberoni
declared that such a scheme was not unworthy of his consi-
deration. Far from deprecating the efforts .or the motives of
men who not ouly preached but practised the principles of
general benevolence and good-will, he concurred with them
in opinion that, whoever reviewed the history of our past
continental wars would come to be of opinion with a popu-
lar writer, that taxes had been raised not to carry on wars,
but that war had been raised to carry on taxes that our
greatest glory was earned by an increase of taxation, and that
our most expensive luxury was a successful general.—
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) But at the same time he drew
a distinction between armies raised for the purpose of aggres-
sion, and armies for the purpose of defence; and he would
submit to those Gentlemen—if there were any such—who
doubted the lawfulness of defensive war, that in the Utopia
•f Sir Thomas More, though he depicted a society in all the
enjoyment of perennial happiness, detesting war, despising
glory, and prohibiting alike lawyers and soldiers—(Laugh-
• ter)—neither allowing Martello towers nor briefs in Chan-
cery—yet even he did
not debar the natives of his happy
island from the use of arms, nor from defending themselves
when they were attacked. Now, he could not imagine that
anybody, either in that House or out of it, would be more
Utopian than the Utopians themselves.—(Great laughter.)
He must say, for himself, that he could not look upon
the present state of the Continent of Europe with.
satisfaction, filled as it
and with reactionary rulers at t witthhe armies. It might be very well,'ghiegaadnitoof armies
follow the Honourable Baronet thoughll Memberhe
through, his medley of Martello towers,couldfor
Bedford hardly
poleon—(Laughter)—it might be rifie"
113 d Louis NL-
well for the Hon.
Baronet to say that he had confidencever in Louis Napoleon.
lie (Mr. Osborne) did not wish to say anything trench upon the feelings of the most' fastidious that would
but he could not say that he shared in the Baronet'slonifrehman,
confidence. He thougta. it was natural that a ma'n b
raised to power.by the military order should act in accordancewowas
with military prejudices. And after all, what did thee Hon
Gentleman say? I,have confidence in Lords Napoleon,
for all that double your army increase your rifle corps
but
men your Martello towers—get ready your swivel gunsbut
still I have great confidence in Louis Napoleon.--(Laughter.
It was better to say at once they had no confidence in Louis) Napoleon, and they had no right to have confidence in him.
Lie was surprised that no Honourable .Gentleman had ever
quoted in the House the revelation which was made by M.
Thiers in the Chamber of Deputies, which told heavily
against Louis Napoleon, and which would amply justify the
Government in seeing that the defences that they had—and
which he mainta,hed were amply sufficient—were put in a
most efficient state. On the 17th of January, 1851, M.
Thiers told the French Chamber that in an interview he had
with Louis Napoleon, the President said that it was neces-
sary to occupy the public mind in France, and that to do
that it would be necessary to undertake some enterprise
abroad 'which would captivate the attention of the masses,
and attach them to the Government. He thought Govern-
ment must be blinded indeed if, after that, they did not take
every precaution to put the defences or the country in the
most efficient state consistent with the large sums of money
they voted for that purpose. But in granting that, he
thought that Ministers. were 'bound to supply fuller and
greater information as to the .state of the defences, and of
the condition of the army. Had any statement of that kind
been made to the House? They had from year to year
enormous estimates sobmitted, and vet no satisfactory account
was ever given of the manner in which the money was laid
out. He was prepared to say that the sums annually
voted were quite enough for national defence, without
either militia, Martello towers, or riflemen.—(Hear, hear.)
We might take a lesson from the way in which the French
estimates were prepared in 1848, from which it would appear
that in one sense one Englishman was still worth two
Frenchmen, for an English soldier was just double the cost
of a French soldier.—(Hear, and a laugh.) He had the
French estimates in his hand, and he would read one or two
extracts from them to show that our service was managed in
the most extravagant and reckless way, and that we should
do well if we took a leaf out of our next door neighbour's
book. The English army consisted of 113,287 men, and it
cost 9,337,0001., or 82/. Bs. 4d. a soldier. The French army
in 1848 was composed of 338,653 men, and cost 12,138,0001.,
or 411. 12s. Bd. per man.—(Cheers.) But he would go fur-
ther. What was the number of generals in the English ser-
vice? We had no less than 117 generals for an army of
113,287 men, while the French army, which in 1848 was
treble, and was now quadruple the amount of our force, had
but eight marshals and 143 general officers. He would take
also the staff of the two armies, and compare the proportion-
ate expenee incurred. In the English army the charge for
the effective service was 3,270,0001., or about 384 per cent.
upon a total expenditure of 9,337,000/, while the French
staff cost but 2,260,0301., which was a charge rather under
19 per cent. on an expenditure of 12,183,000/. When,
therefore, Honourable Gentlemen talked of the country not
being in, a proper state of defence, he would advise them to
look t little into these French estimates, and the House
would bear in mind that in this comparison no account
whatever was taken of the dead weight. He found also that
the French soldiers, being clothed on a system of open con-
tracts, were clothed at 12s. a head less than our own soldiers,
though their uniforms were furnished in a country which
ought to be the cheapest country in the world for woollen
clothing.—(Hear, hear.) Another thing which he found was
this—that in the French army, trebling our own in amount,
military justice was administered at a cost of 8,0001., while
in the English army it cost 32,000/. There must be some-
thing wrong in all this. There must be some great waste
somewhere. The money which the [louse of Commons voted
annually for military purposes could not be laid out to
the best advantage, or else why was so great a difference
observable in the French estimates and our own? It was
true that we spent but 22,0001. in powder, while the French
outlay in that article quadrupled that amount; and the
French soldiers were armed witn the Minie rifle, and equipped
with every improvement suggested by modern military science,
while the English soldier was only supplied with the miser-
able musket. 'He reneated that it was evident that some-

thing wrong was going •on, and that the House ought, be-
fore they agreed to the third reading of the Bill, to insist on
some better information being given on the subject of mili-
tary expenditure than had been afforded. He thought that
if an intelligent foreigner had come into the House during
the debate on the introduction of the Bill, be wt•uld have
bean rather surprised to see the Home Secretary, who was
, very skilful. no doubt, as a Chancery lawyer, coming for-
ward to propose that 50,000 men should be raised to form a
• militia. What could the Right Honourable Gentleman know
about military matters? In saying this he did not attribut-
any blame to the Minister of the day; what lie found fault
with was the system. He thought these matters ought to be
in the hands of a War Minister, who ought to be able to ex-
plain to the House the condition of the army and the nature
and extent of our rewurces. The consequence of the present
system was, that the House was about to pass a Bill in a
panic, which no one in his heart believed to be of any ser-
vice, and which the msjority of military men, and all civi-
lians, with some few exceptions, believed to be inefficient
for its purpose. He said, " with some few exceptions," be-
caused ho had perceived to-day in the papers an address
from the Right Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor of
the Exchequer to those confiding farmers who were his con-
stituents in Buckinghamshire. The Right Honourable
Gentlemen recounted in that address those rapid acts of
statesmanship for which he wished his Government to go
down to the admiration of posterity.—(Hear, hear.) The
Right Honourable Gentleman plumed himself on one " as a
measure of internal defence, which it is,believed" —the Right
Hon. Gentleman did hot state his own opinion on the subject
—" will soon prove both popular, economical, and efficient."
He (Mr. Osborne) would take leave to parody the words of
the Right Hon. Gentleman, and to assert his belief that this
internal defence" would soon become an internal com-
plaint, which would prove neither economical nor beneficial.
He was very much mistaken if even the confiding farmers
of Buckinghamshire did not ask the Right Hon. Gentleman
some more questions ,about the origin of this Bill. He was
rather surprised to find that the Right Hon. Gentleman
should have assumed the parentage of this measure, but he
was prepared to prove that he was only its potative father,
and that he really had nothing to do with such a miser-
able albortion. He could prove that the idea was taken
by the Home Secretary from a pamphlet written in 184 S,
by Mr. Frederick Hill, inspector of prisona, but with the
omission of some useful adjuncts to the plan; an omission
which would remind the House of two tolerably well-known
lines-
- Quern recites meus eat, 0 Fidelline, libellus,
bed nu& cum recitas, incipit esse tuus."
—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Every Hon. Member recol-
lected the proposition which the Right lion. Gentleman
made to give militiamen a vote after two years' service;
and they also remembered—the most sudden fit of Parlia-
mentary repentance on record—when the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman came down to the House on the following Monday,
and said that he did not mean to give them a vote. There
was a great variety of opinion about this movement. Some
said that the tendencies of the Right. Hon. Gentleman
were democratic, others that the proposal was a joke of
Lord Derby's. But it was no joke at all. He believed that
the Government had deliberately weighed the proposal. but
it was none of their thunder. He knew where the Rig ht
Hon. Gentleman stole it from. He took it from a speech of
.Mr. Windham's, in 1805, who proposed to induce soldiers
to enlist by giving their sergeants a right to shoot game.—
(Laughter and cheers.) This Bill bore on its face the marks
of hasty compilation. It was a piece of political patchwork,
not intended for the defence of the country, but for the poli- •
tical exigencies of a Ministry in• its last moments. The
country did not want it, it had no belief in it, and what was
more, it would be of no use to the country.—(Hear, hear.)
There was a perfect apathy about it out of doors, and no
one out of the House talked about Martello towers. But
then it was said " Let us have an army of reserve." The
Right Honourable Gentleman seemed to think that it was
enough' to put a man in a red coat and make him shoulder a
musket, to make him a soldier. He should have supposed
that he had read Mr. Windham with sufficient attention to
satisfy himself that mere numbers were not a suffi-
cient defence of a country. The Right Hon. Gentleman
proposed to raise the militia by giving a bounty, which it
was clear would operate most unequally in different parts of
the country. In -the rural districts it would deprive the
farmer of a great deal of labour, probably when he most
wanted it, while in the manufacturing districts, where the
bounty would be of no avail, the Government must resort to
of the
(
the ballot, a proceeding contrary to the "genius
Cohfe:2
epoch," which no statesman ought to disregard
and laughter.) With regard, however, tothi.—s my
serve, the Right Honourable Gentleman the Secretary for
the Home Department told the House with considerable
aplomb and confidence, that he proposed to make them effi.
cient soldiers by drilling them for twenty-one y
really quite astonished at the simplicitioalfolfthhisßsl'ith7 Ike was
Gentleman. Where had he been living
Chancery that
his briefs been so numerous in the Courtarms?
he knew nothing of the organization of
her Majesty's Ministers themselves, though he
admiliteteddetfiheadt
they were active recruits, to acquire alie
knowledge
admitteda ofd s
ht
tohhwe
ai
shown
profession in twenty-one days.
the Noble Lord at the head of the Government
much skill in performing a rather difficult evolution—
namely, changing his front in the presence of his adversary.
—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer was well versed in light infantry movements, and
knew well how to advance and retire on a budget.—
(Lqughter.) The Horne Secretary
avoiding the file-firing of . was equally expert in
(lestlons•—(Laughter.) His
neighbour the Right Hun. Member for North Essex (an
Secretary-at-War) was an exLertienced soldier, and would
avoid danger at any quarter ;
not been able to get much farther th et
hAantto
traheeyrldeinteereanit:
out.
"goose step."—(Laughter.) But the farce which was
5
proposed to be raised
an organized hypocrisy.—(Lau
Bill was not worth the
would he a farce, even a
tempt invasion than reoelB
paper, and would more titer and cheers.) The
end liff five years, after 121 to be
dismissed to their homen were
aggression.—(Cheers.)
days drill, the At I the
thing but an irregular horde, be dangerous
to the regular soldiers than to likely to
Why,d such a force would be no-
Mr.
moretlier foe-- (alit'ers•)
Pitt was a great advocate for
tht militias, but he never contem-
plated such a militia as this,
; an
Home
efficient
en
i e was that the men
should be . brigaded and ke.
gentlemen, who resembled rsettaart e Some
y.
nhis
enH ci
amiability and general
want of understandi secretary
ng on these points
—(Laughter)—had but Mr. Pitt
said " h
• ag to ask any
proposed a 20 days' drill,
thinking maa whether it is posaible

flu. a volunteer to acquire only the simplest part of a soldier's
training in 20 days ?' —(Cbeers.) He (Mr. B. Osborne), too,
would ask any thinking man—he would ask the Right Hon.
President of the India Board, who was a man of great expe-
rience, and might have heard Mr. Pitt speak—(Laughter)
how it was possible to make a man a soldier in 21 days?—
( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Walpole)
seemed to emulate Pompey the Great, who used to boast that
he could i•aise an army by stamping the ground; but he was
more likely to resemble the fabled hero of the farce, and
would be obliged to say—
" Begone, brave army! don't kick up a row."

—(Loud laughter.) The Bill was a trumpery abortion ; but
there was one clause so obnoxious that he could not refrain
from making a remark upon it. He was much surprised
that a Minister at the eve of an election, and therefore anxi-
ous, he presumed, to acquire
_a little popularity, and to
consult " the genius of the epoch"—(Laughter)—should
have proposed to exempt Peers from serving.—(Cheer&)
He thought that that was a great slur upon. the
British aristocracy, and he believed that they felt it as
an insult ; for, whatever the faults of the aristocracy, they
had never shrank from taking) their share in the dangers
and difficulties of the public defence.—(Cheers.) He had
said that it was impossible to make the militia an army
of reserve. An Hon. Gentleman beside him bad alluded to
the militia in America; but Washington bad always spoken
of it with the greatest contempt. In 1776, after the battle
of Brooklyn, where the militiamen were repulsed with igno-
miny, Washington den sunced them in the strongest terms,
and said, that the depressed state in which the American
cause then stood arose from "short enlistments, short
drill, and placing too great dependence on the mi.
esia."—( Hear, hear.) Reference bad also been made
to the National Guard of France, but nothing could
be more unfortunate. When a motion was made in the
French Chamber for the re-organization of the National
Guard, General de Gremmont stated—and he begged the
attention of the "lion. Gentleman the Member for Glasgow
(Mr. Macgregor) to this, far he was fond of statistics— Gen. de
Grammont stated, that on the 2sth June, 1848, although the
National Guard 01 Paris numbered 237,000, they could only
prevail on 8,000 to come oat from their homes.--(Laugb.
ter.) He (Ur. B. Osborne) had on a recent occasion voted
with a Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) against
the proposal of the Ministers for re-allotting the vacant
seats, on the ground that this was merely a provisional
Government; but, if it was not right to legislate for the
purpose of giving Members to constituencies, he thought
they ought not to pass this Bill, which, in his conscience,
he believed would be of no use, at the instigation of Hon.
Gentlemen who had none of the confidence of that (the
Opposition) side of the House, and very little of the other.
(Ministerial cries of "Oh 1" and counter-cheering.) If
they wanted any army reserve at all, be believed the
true policy of this couetfry to look to their wooden
power could compete walls, to have an overpowering force such as no other
of a statesman
with, and to give full scopeto
teer rifle corps, if rifles they
caught by a fear of invasionwi
House in the words
toMinistry, not pass amore, not to be
measure
nat not epndtrh.oo.ewp
snareoßsneuodt h eboyc alaal e
n ong
a Ministrytihn eg
piring Parliament.—(CheerS.) •-•
Gallant Member, in his
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that
somewhat humorous speech, had.
uoted the authority of many persons, the Hon. and
from Washington to
)entthought that if they leooxakiedlitito aHue-
(t Pitt
he saogl
iaci
int so tr. tuheenpe
Solicitor-General)
ae present Proposal of raising a niilitja. He
(the Solicitor-General
thteooosin' ;ton in its favour
thorities on the subject, the present Billhew-would not stand
head of the
without support, and instanced
of the
of the-very eminent soldier who s
army, and the distinguished officer at the head
Board of Ordnance. The Government of the late Sir
Robert Peel had given instructions for prepai
the establishment of a militia, and the fate'ilj.ovaernßill for
had brought forward a proposal somewhat similar tomtraet
now before the House. It was not, therefore, to be con-
tended that the authorities were all on the one side, neither.'
could it be maintained that the time had not arrived
when it had become the bounden duty of a Government to
bring forward such a measure as the present.—(User.
hear.) An increase in the regular army had been ree,ore_
mended by those who were opposed to the present measure,
and strangely enough this recommendation had proceeded
from the party which boasted of being the Whigs of 1688.
- (Hear, hear.) If, however, such a proposal as that of pee-
-1 maneutly increasing the standing army had been brought
forward by the Government, he could imagine the burst of
opposition with which it would have been encountered by
the same Hon. Members.—(Hear, hear.) The militia which
it was proposed tQraise had been characterised as a perfectly
inefficient body. He did not concur in that opinion, and
wished the House to remember that the force proposed to
be raised was intended to aid, and not to supersede, the
regular tooops. He believed that in the present state of •
affairs the proposed force was the best adapted to meet the ,
requirements of the case, and the best calculated to afford
a guarantee for the continuance of peace.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. PETO considered the increased facilities of commu-
nication by telegraph and other means as the best guarantee
for peace, and as the most efficient security against hostile
invasion. The present measure, while it was calculated to
disturb the whole industry of the country, would merely
produce a force which it was generally believed would be
exceedingly ineffective. There existed throughout the
country an intensity of feeling against the measure, of which
the Government appeared to be but little conscious, and he
thought that the better course would be to increase the
standing army rather than have recourse to a measure such
as this.--(blear.)
The House then divided, when the numbers were—
For the amendment ...
... 143
Against it ss„ 220
Majority
The Dill was therefore read a third time.
Mr. ThIORNELY then moved the addition of the fol-
lowing proviso to the end of clause 18:—"Nosmember of
the senate of the University of London, nor any examiner,
professor, tutor, or lecturer of the said university, or of any
college, schoOl, or institution connected with the said uni-
versity, under the provisions of any charter thereof, nor any
student of any such college, school, or institution, duly ma-
triculated in the said university, and actually receiving
education in any of the said colleges, schools, or institutions,
nor any resident member of the University of Durham shall
be liable to serve or provide a substitute for the militia."
Mr. WALPOLE pried ssed to include within the exemp-
tion contemplated by the proviso the members of St. David's
Col ege, Lampeter.
Mr. BRIGHT thought that Owen's College, Manchester,
which was in many respects a kindred institution to those
which it was sought to exempt from the operation of the

clause, ought also 10 be inaluded within the exemption.
There was alz:0 a large college in the neighbourhood of
. .

Manchester, intended for the education of ministers of the
Independent- body of Nonconformists, as well as several
others in different parts of the kingdom. He could not dis-
cover any reason why those colleges embraced in the proviso
of the Hon. Member (Mr. Thornely) should be exempted,
and why other colleges of much the same character should
be differently treated, especially thoso where young men were
being trained to the Christian ministry.
Mr. EWART thought the College of St. Bees stood in
the same category with reference to the claim of exemption.
Mr. WALPOLE said St. Bees was a school, and not a
college.
After a remark from Mr. HEYWOOD,
The proviso was added to the clAuse.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS, amid cries of " Oh, oh," and some
laughter, moved the omission of clause 18, which he consi-
dered to be one of the most objectionable in the whole Bill,
as establishing a system of conscription.
Mr. WALPOLE said the clause having been so fully dis-
cussed in Committee, and the whole Bill having been con-
sidered both on the second and third readings as one recog-
nizing the necessity, in some cases, of having recourse to the
ballot, he woul I put it to the Hon. Gentlernan whether it
was worth while dividing the louse. In that clause there
was nothing of a nature which compelled the Executive Go-
vernment to put the ballot in force in case the volunteers
should fail; but it was a permissive clause, enabling the
Crown to put the ballot in operation in case it should be
necessary.-- (Laughter.) And if they left out the clause
they must also leave out the kiroviso at the end of another
clause, which restrained the Government from putting into
execution the statute of George 111., unless they failed in
raising the volunteers.
The House then divided, when the result was
For
cNonottwaiintehdstainndainnlgAowanc_itny:-f
For the omission of the clause ..... . ..... 142
Against ........- lB7
Majority
On the motion of Sir DE LACY EVANS, the fol
s i"ceorntteadinaeade,rtchjeaup'reov3i4sio—ns"
colainugse
hereinw a
the 44th year of King George 111., n„ 54, intituled
to' consolidate and amend the provisions of
" An Act
the
relating to corps of yeomanry and volunteersseveral Acts
Britain, and to make regulations relating of Great
tinue in force, so far as the same applies thereto shall con-
corps of yeomanry and volunteers to the enrolment of
which such corpsure entitled b 1 and the exemptions to
Act." y virtue of the last-mentioned

effect that a
of DE
clauselA3Csl: tEo Vt Ah e N
ofu actual
r.. war or
9im6 imminent
it shall not be lawful to
by
rydlei:rfrt.hweAAbn
Las ltpleovot ,
La
tEOpiprt
o. isi:ne:Et itmyhnee.eo.
enddSirproviso at the
danger of war.
Mr. GOUCBURN said th
end of clause 35 would b
e effP:tvoisfot,hwehiamchezasmeanntppaotrtethde
The House divided, 'when ;het: a
Cornwall from the ballot, would be
liable.—(Laughter.) ot) whilst all other classes
Majorit pexpeearmepLthe miners in
For the proviso B2 .
The BAigllai:asta y against the proviso •••
THE LAW BILLS.
The CHANCELLOR of the ExcErEQUER announced
that
(Com-
mittee), and the Im
that he proposed to take the Common Law procedure
(Com-
(Committee), the Masters' in Chancery Abolition. .
itthen passed.
."
...
.:: 178
.
provement
Bill (Committee) on Friday next. ,
NAVY PAY BlL.mdie Navy Pay Bill.
The House went into Committee an
know if it were Sir GEORGE PEOHELL desired
of the urisdiction of Equity
to .
in-
tended by this Bill to leave three months' pay in
arrear
in-
stead of six months?
Mr. STAFFORD—Yes. for any
Mr. S. HERBERT—
Der does the present system
alteration? In what man
W'here is the necessity
work ill ? present gystem is unpopular
Mr. STAFFORD—Theusethe system appears unfavourable
amongst the men,
btegprietiee in the merchant service. The
in comparison w— the as a precaution against de •
present practice wa:
found unnecessary. The whole tone of
better that it is not necessary to continue
stehretinoanv,
navy
but
si to
much lincoh.
the disqualificatiea
WART expressed his approval of the Bill.
Id be very acceptable to the navy, and
He thoug make the service popular. Although they
would tend to .
give up the right of impressment, he hoped
to gi
AdmiralhStTitE
„ma
Ought never never have occasion to use it.
theyler,,;nnt.would make the navy popular. He wished to
„viluidsCOßELL concurred in thinking the Bill, as far
as " ' w Lary of the Admiralty whether it affected
ask the Secre
seamen of foreign stations, because most of our navy served
abroad?
Mr. ITER' ' 'SON SMITH also inquired whether it would
the expense of the country?
adaid to
r. STAFFORD replied that it would not occasion one
farthing's additional expense;
sand that the measure would
to &mere
on foreign stations.
The various clauses were
apply -6
then agreed to, and the Bill
passed through Committee.
ORD r.R OF BUSIN ESS.

Mr. WALPOLE, in stating the order of public business,
said that the Goye.nment intended on Thursday to take
Supply at twelve o'clock, and afterwards to go ou with the
New Zealand Bill. On Friday they proposed to begin with
the Colonial Bishops Bill, then to go on with the law Bills,
and to end with the Interment MI. --(Laughter.)
POOR-LAW BOARD CONTINUANcE (IRELAND)
BILL.

This Bill passed through Committee.
PASSENGERS ACT AMENDMENT
The third reading of this Bill having been moved,
Mr. MACGREGOR said that the shipping interest were
se much opposed to thia measure, which had taken them by
surprise, that he hoped the Government would npt pe,t5022n351
with it during the present session. If, however, the 'um"
/Win WM Poled 04 the ptimA 9ceitopt he 490 WM