The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-20 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT,

HOUSE OF LORDS, March 19.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack
at Five o'clock.
PETITIONS.
Lord MONTEAGLE presented a petition from the
county of Limerick praying for the repeal of the Eccle-
siastical Titles Act.
The Earl of CARLISLE presented a petition from
Edinburgh against the Regkum Domini and the May-

nooth grant.
The Earl of LANESBOROUH presented a petition
from Cavan praying for relief to the sgriculturalinterest.
'THE CORN-LAWS.

SA

The Duke of NEWCASTLE then rose, in pursuance of
his notice, to present a petition from the Commercial Asso-
ciation of Manchester, praying that the country may as
speedily as possible be relieved from the state of anxiety
and suspense which at present so extensively prevails among
all classes of the population as to the course of commercial
policy which her Majesty's Government proposes to adopt.
The Noble Duke spoke to the following effect, but we cannot
say in the following worth, as in many parts of his speech
he was perfectly inaudible, and in all very indistinctly heard :
—I should have been happy, my Lords, to have presented
giving notice, or without even the few
which I think it now necessary to preface
c'tthhbiesserryPeeatsitenn°i°tnastwrojintlu oofitt. had it not happened that in his speech
on Monday last the Noble Earl at the head of her Majesty's
Government, in dealing with another petition on the same
subject, had amused the House at the expense of the peti-
tioners who signed it, and had denied the truth of their
grave assertions, and had expressed his doubts of the alarm
which they professed to feel, and had altogether impugned
the justice of the prayer with which they concluded. As the
Noble Earl on that occasion laid great weight on the
ignorance of those petitionars with regard to the subject
with which they were dealing—[The Earl of DERBY dis-
sented]—I certainly understood the Noble Earl to say that
an auctioneer was not a competent judge on such a subject
—(Hear)—l wish to call his attention to the petition which
I have now the honour of presenting, and which I received
the day after the former petition was presented, not indeed
from Snaith, but from Manchester--not from an auctioneer
and a surgeon, but to men whose entire lives have been de-
voted to the consideration of commercial questions—men
whore even he must admit to be intimately acquainted with
Bich subjects—men whom, as a resident and large proprietor
in the same county, and as a Member of this House, and
as Prime Minister of this country, the Noble Earl
must regard with respect when they come before your Lord-
ships for the purpose of expressing their opinions on any
subject. The petition comes from the Manchester Associa-
tion. And what is that association? It is not a political
association—it is not opposed in general politics to those
of the Noble Earl ; but it is composed of men who have com-
bined together to promote the general interests of com-
merce—of men who differ on all political points excepting
this—of men who never belonged, I believe, to any party,
either in this or the other House of Parliament—and of men
who never come before us except on questions in which they
feel themselves peculiarly interested. I, therefore, think my
Lords, that you will agree with me that some deference is
due to them, and that, however you may be inclined to dis-
pute the competency of others on this subject, you must
attach some importance to their opinions when regularly
brought before you. I shall read their petition to your
Lordships, as it is but short. [Here the Noble Duke read the
following petition, which stated— -
That this chamber has witnessed, under feelings of un-
mixed satisfaction, the-speedy and constantly progressive
march towards contentment and happiness which the in-
dustrial classes of this country have made under that most
wise system of free commercial policy which was fore-
shadowed by Mr. Huskisson in 1824, and received develop-
ment under the Ministries of which the late Sir Robert
Peel and Lord John Russell were respectively the chiefs.
That, in the opinion of this chamber, so well are the benefits
which have already accrued to this country understood, and
so hopeful the progress which each succeeding year mani-
fests, that any retrocession from that policy, and especially
the re-imposition of ar* duty on corn or other food consumed
by the great mass of the people, will evoke consequences
that every true patriot would deplore. That not only
would the fact of sucli retrocession be moat calamitous, but
the anticipation of such a possibility is in itself detrimental
to every interest in the State. Uncertainty paralyzes the
operations of commerce and shipping, endangers industry in
every branch, and retards the progress of agriculture both
at home and in the colonies ; and as from recent changes in
the Government of this country that dreaded uncertainty
exists and is increasing, your petitioners, disavowing, as
this chamber has always disavowed, all intention, of inter-
fering in party politics, humbly but earnestly pray that
your Lordships' House
heat no
take such measures as
may assure the country that no retrocession shall take place
in the commercial policy now existing, which, founded on
the immutable principles of justice, is diffusing happiness by
spreading employment on every side, and elevating the
moral character of the people by diminishing poverty and

crime.")
The Noble Duke then proceeded :—Now I hope 'that I may
tbbe
cps
ee r mas
Bei ttreti d 0 tuoa,
:de d
fa mr yashmu my belxepetreiset ui Teo
inn),
m toy, tuhwen t rue
etanh
toyf
I-4, large manufacturing and agricultural county—is con-
;earned. - The Noble Earl on aformer occasion seemed to en-
itertain doubts -whether any mischief or. inconvenience could
ICErtr atn
theres
I,ebeim.ferultuaritityth, e
aapretsheeritatruime eibbrywthheeatrewcinulgtu, maul
and the
eoef
other
and important matters in which
aorfeagrmanicyultgruraufleindustry, W:0 for this year over.
B:SpgriceulliSteuVlinbteeretshte,
ncaeutseenoifythweitghrereafteesretumceiectehireefuttos, the
but
also with reference to other contracts between landlords
and tenants. I am sure also that the Noble Earl will ac-
knowledge that its effect on the farmers and occupiers of
land is .also to be deprecated. I - could easily show, my
. .I:ll:i°drarYedni:offerclatStatthheatet:Ninifolofbreri
affecLed. •by this suspense, the manufacturing and
oa
nr et i still
n en t motsire
.
various parts of :Islet:
tFehoetnairgualf:icultural interest ', be injuriously
iAaffwaeirlsl,,wawhaoreis
tnhoawt
Theiv 8
sittingd alreadyN or
ebpl er e
sbSyeefnrctotrhae -me_
tions-of the mischief accruing to them from this uncertainty
haveB°.'rece
existing in the English markets. (The_ Earl of Derby inti-
mated his dissent.) The Noble Earl appears to doubt the
fact.; . but I have myself re •
caved representations to that pur-
iyort from-A.ustriao Naples,-and Denmark, all communie,atiug
?to me the mischief which those states apprehend from the
tltuitinuance of suspense in the operations of trade in this
try.. I may be
istold that sountriso like Austria and
policy se restri • b
;Naples, whose otive, ...eve no reason to nom-
' plain ; but Denmark stands on a different, and, kmay.add, a-
higher footing, lam not, however, looking /9 much to the

interests of those countries as I am, my Lords, to the inte-
rests of this country, which appear to be stagnated by the
uncertainty which now prevails as to the continuance of free
trade, If I should be told, in that stereotyped phrase which
I have seen used in so many Addresses to the electors of this
*counbry,.that it is a matter. of indifference, because you can-
not fight hostile tariffs with free imports, I shill reply with the
undeniable fact that this is by no means an undisputed axiom.
However little we may have met with reciprocity in other
times, this I can say, that there never was a time in the
days or reciprocity wheh so large a relaxation of hostile
tariffs was made as has been made during the prevalence of
the principles of free trade. If any inconvenience is still
felt, it does not attach to the establishment of the system of
free importations without any guarantee for their reciprocity,
but it has arisen from the uncertainty which has prevailed
on the subject during the last five or six years, and it is
owing to the course adopted by the Noble Earl opposite and
his friends around him, and by certain Hon. Gentlemen in
the other House of Parliament, that this uncertainty has
existed so long. I know that you may tell us,—and justly
and consistently with your views,—that the fault lies witk
us, because we introduced the system to which you are hos-
tile, and which you consider to be false, impolitic, and abor-
tive, whilst we attribute it to obstinacy on the part of those
who, like you, desire the revival of an obsolete and ex-
ploded system. But, my Lords, it is not merely as to the
trade in corn that this uncertainty is prevalent. It prevails,
and must continue to prevail, among all other articles of
commerce. I was glad to find that the Secretary of
State for the Colonies announced the other day in his
place in the other House of Parliament, that it
was not his intention to proceed with a Bill which he
had introduced there, but before he was apppointed to his
present office—l mean a Bill for the suspension of the scale
by which the sugar duties have been lowered; but, never-
theless, there must be great uncertainty in this postpone-
ment of the Right lion. Baronet's measure, operating inju-
riously on the colonies, and deranging, of necessity, all the
views and speculations of our colonial merchants. There is,
indeed, one great interest in the country which I do hope
will now proceed without any interference or uncertainty;
for, although the President of the Board of Control did
alarm the shipowners greatly by the speech which he made
on the hustings at Stamford, the Noble Earl at the head
of her Majesty's Government has, with great wisdom,
within the walls of this House, set the question at
rest, by stating broadly and explicitly on Monday
last that he adhered to the opinion which he had expressed
when the repeal of the navigation-laws was under discus-
sion, that when that repeal was once carried it must be
final and irreversible.—(Hear, hear.) I will not, my Lords,
on this occasion enter into any discussion on the policy or
impolicy of the cern-laws. I not only retain the opinions
unchanged which I expressed when the repeal of them was
under consideration, but I have had them strongly confirmed
by everything which has occurred since. I wish most sin-
fecerretlhyewhole question is one of difference of opinion—but
feelings t o avoid, in what lam going to say, any observations
which may create, I won't say any difference of opinion—
any of those
shall say nothing on this subject, except which bears on the
relative
first of all, I beg you to remember, my Lords, what has
already ensued since the repeal of the corn-laws some five or
wize years position
gito io.
of the Government and the country. And,
n
That measure, as you know, broke up a
riveas
powerful Government; it brought into hostile array what
was before an united party; in some instances it turned sin-
cere friends at any
rate into ;political enemies ; and it has
done worse than this—it has rendered during five or six
years the
Carrying on of a Parliamentary Government a
matter of extreme difficulty in the hands of any Minister.
I Earl at the head of her Majesty's Government to avail
himself
iamd
sveelr advert,
of,
my Lords, to this only to urge upon the Noble
the great position which he now occupies to
allow this state of things to exist no longer, and to
run as little risk as possible of the occurrence of any events
which may
which is now easy. Dly Lords, you do not know, you can-
not tell in what state this country will be in the month of
February
next, although all is calm now. I deprecate
the continuance of uncertainty, and I deprecate still
ettl
more the struggle which may arise out of it. I know that
s
the Noble Earl opposite is anxious to see it closed. I know
his patriotism so well, that lam sure, however it may be
settled,
he will
hh the
Noble
tion of that tranquillity and repose
em which will attend that
rwejiolilcheeinhebceesineagryin,
my Lords, to remove this
strumental to the restore-
uncertainty by a settlement of the question one way or the
otherseal before you can proceed in a satisfactory manner to those
social questions
of
fhotshee internal reforms
thswic e
explana-
tion of his policy, which he gave a few nights ago, declared
it to be his humble but useful duty to accomplish. The
Noble Duke here became for some time nearly inaudible,
but we understood him to be calling on the Earl of Derby
to look at the state of the population daring the last five or
six years. When the Noble Earl recollected the magnificent
scene, in which he himself took no inconsiderable part, at
the reception of the Sovereign by thousands upon thousands
of her subjects in their hives of industry—where
they were once wont to assemble not to greet
their Sovereign, but for purposes less favourably
combined with the interests of the country—when the
Noble Earl, he said, witnessed that scene of universal
satisfaction and unanimous joy, he must feel how painful
it would be if anything should happen to change all those
happy and favourable appearances. He wished to say no
more on this question except eo far as the dissolution of
Parliament bore upon it. Thn Noble Duke then continued
—Apart from this important question of the state to whick
the population may be reduced by the continuance of this
suspense, I must now tell the Noble Earl that there is arising
at present out of the declaration which he made in this
House on Monday last a question of considerable importance,
which must and will grow from day to day, and which, if
not settled soon by a change of opinion in the Noble Earl,
will (in my conscience I believe it) be of a dangerous cha-
racter to the best interests of the country. Igo the whole
length of .saying that if the Noble. Ear at the head of the
Government perseveres in his determination that the busi-
ness of the country shall be carried on, and shall attempt to
bring in measures of legislation, and to carry them through
Parliament, while he is, according to his own confession, in
an undoubted minority in one House, and in a doubtful ma.
jority in the other—
Lord REDESDALE, as we were told, here interrupted
the Noble Duke and said—" He never asserted it."
The Duke of NEWCASTLE—I beg my Noble Friend op-
posite to correct me if I am wrong; but I think that if he
had listened to the speech of his Noble Friend at the head of
the Government he would not have interrupted me. I would
not have ventured to express an opinion upon this point until
it had been tested by a hostile division, had not the Noble
Earl (Derby) manfully confessed on one occasion that he was
en avowed minority in the House of Commons, and in a
doubtful majority here. I have, therefore, I think a right to
assume that as a fact, and to use it as such in debate. Well,
then, if the Noble Earl adheres to his intention of bringing
into Parliament, where his position is such as I have de-
scribed, legislative measures of importance, not of pressing
and immediate urgency, I say by that course, which is at
once unconstitutional and unknown in the history of the
country, he will be endangering in a very serious degree in-
deed the principle of representative government in England.
I know, my Lords, that both :out of doors and within the
walls of Parliament an attempt is made to defend this course
by the Example of Mr. Pitt. I am confident that the Noble
Earl himself has read history too well to see any analogy
between the two cases. Mr. Pitt's case forms no prece-
dent at all. Mr. Pitt's struggle was to pass a Bill in order
that he, as the servant of the Sovereign, might dissolve Par-
liament ; and, without passing that Bill, a dissolution was
impossible at the hands of any party—for the Bill in ques-
tion was the Mutiny Bill. Such, I repeat, was the course of
Mr. Pitt ; but the course now proposed to be taken is not to
dissolve Parliament as soon as those measures of pressing
urgency are carried, but to introduce, and, if possible, to
carry through Parliament, legislative measures of various
kinds and of different degrees of urgency before a dissolution
is decided upon. Now, I must say that neither the prece-
dent of Mr. Pitt, which has been adduced by some politi-
cians, nor the view which the Noble Earl himself took of
his own position at present, is a sufficient justification for
such a line of policy. The Noble Earl said that he was in a
peculiar position, and that he had been forced into office. I
certainly cannot agree in the truth of that assertion; I
entirely dissent from it; nor can I for a moment avouch it.
It was answered so well and so fully on a former
night by a Noble Earl near me, that I felt
it unnecessary to touch further on that topic ;
but, even if it were as the Noble Earl has stated, I say that
'there is no justification for his persistence in a system which
is not fully recognised by the Constitution. Really the truth
is, that the position of her Majesty's Government at the
'present moment is a position of great anomaly. I deny that
;the Noble Earl was forced into the Government by anything
'whatever; but I most fully admit that he sits upon those
benches by right. Still I repeat once more his position is
an anomaly. What, my Loris, are the circumstances under
which the Noble Earl is sitting there ? He was at the head
,of a large party, indeed of the only large party in the
country, save that of which a Noble Lord in the other House
is the acknowledged head. Nothing, therefore, could be more
natural, or more in accordance with constitutional rules, than
for her Majesty to call on the Noble Earl to form an Mimi-
nistration . The Noble Earl has, therefore, no reason to apolo-
gize for his position; but still I say that it is an anomaly.
,He is not to blame for it, though he finds himself with an un-
doubted minority in one,Honee and a doubtful majority in
the other.—(Hear, hear.) But, I maintain, that if he re-
mains is the disposition %which he announced to us on a
former night, his position will not only be an anomaly, but
also an an unconstitutional position. The Noble Earl, under
these circumstances, has been driven to an expedient which
I had great pain to hear of. The Noble Earl, in the speech
which he addressed to your Lordships in explanation of his
reasons for taking office when he was in an avowed minority
in the House of Commons and in a doubtful majority here,
threw himself on the indulgence of his friends and the for-
bearance of his opponents. (The Earl of Derby dissented.)
I am anxious to be corrected if I mistook the Noble Earl's
expression. I confess that this is a position in which,
in my opinion, the Minister of a free country like this
ought not to be placed; but it is the natural consequence
of the Noble Earl's determination to carry on measures
of legislation for the country while he is in a minority
—and it is an appeal which I believe no Prime Minister
of this country ever made before, and which—with :the
high respect and admiration that I sincerely feel
for his manly and chivalric character—l could not have be-
lieved that the Noble Earl would be the first to make.
(Hear, hear.)
But this, I say, is the consequence of the
position which I have already condemned, and in which the
Noble Earl has placed himself, and this must continue to be
the consequence so long as the Noble Earl performs the
duties of Prime Minister without the confidence of the House
of Commons. It appears to me, my Lords, that no legisla-
tion which is not immediate and urgent should be allowed
at present, if the Noble Earl continues to persist in his op-
position to the policy of free trade—(Hear, hear)—and even
A still more stringent measure [if we heard the Noble Duke
correctly] might be the only measure to which Parliament
could have recourse. [Here the Noble Earl became in-
audible for some sentences. ] I have once or twice touched
on the fact that certain measures must be passed before
we can have a dissolution of Parliament. But what
are they? We are sitting here, if not as an Oppo-
sition, certainly not as the supporters of her Ma-
jesty's Government.—(lronical cheers from the Earls of
Malmesbury and Lonsdale.) The Noble Lords are
welcome to their cheers, but I say distinctly that as long
AS the Government has any reservation of opinion on
the policy of free trade, as long as we have not a declaration
from the Prime Minister that no attempt will be made to
to te
restore the corn-laws, so long shall Ibe in opposition be
Government.—(Hear, hear.) But the Noble Earl
from may
assured that he will have no more factious opposition
me than the Noble Marquis had who is now sitting near me.
my support
t
—(Hear, hear.) I gave to the late Governmente
same _ y
the
b
when I could conscientiously, and I shall do h
present Government ; but I tell the Noble Earl that as long
as there is this imp if ortant difference between us on the corn-
laws—the Noble Lords shay again cheer me they p leas
so'long shall Ibe the opponent of .his Government. When
Ear may
that question of difference is set at rest the
li
rely on it that if he shall pursue the same pNoble o which he
pursued when I was a colleague of his under the Adminis-
tration of Sir R. Peel, he will find no man more ready to
support him, when I can.—(Heats hear.) 1 was about to say
some minutes ago, when I was interrupted, that we only re,.,
cognize two votes as absolutely necessary for the Govern-
ment before a dissolution, viz., the -Mutiny Act and the
vote in supply. If the Noble Trail should con don to Par.