The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-22 00:00:00

EMIGRATION'

I• - ' ' ' 4
Mr. F. SCULLY wished to ask the Secretary for the
Colonies, whether it was the intention cf her Majesty's
Government to apply any portion of the large funds
reecetly received from Australia in aid of emigration
from Ireland to that colony; and if so, whether any part
of those funds would be applied in assisting emigration of
well-conducted youth from the Irish workhouses?
Sir J. PAKINGTON sail the best answer ho could
make to the first part of the question was to state
that the practice of the Emigratioa Commissioners had
been to send out from each part of the United
kingdom a number of emigrants proportionate to the
population, and Ireland was now in advance of England
and Scotland to the extent of 6,000. The Commissioners
had, however, determined not to check the emigration
from Ireland until the proportion had been equalized;
but at this moment an agent was engaged in Ireland in
recommending families to the Commissioners.—(Hear,
bear.) 'With regard to the latter part of the question,
it had been found inexpedient to send out young un-
married men, and it might happen that those very
youths would be found more useful at home.—(Hear.)
THE NEWSPAPER, STAMP.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD wished to ask the Attorney-
General what steps bad been taken to try the question
raised by the Board of Inland Revenue, as to the right
to publish monthly papers at other periods than " the
first day of every calendar month, or within two days
before or after that day, according to the terms of the
Act 60 George 111., c. 9?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL explained that under
the provisions of the Act papers published at iatervals of
more than 26 days were not liable to the stemp-duty
but in order to prevent the practitticooewsopfappuerb,listhhte.nAg :at.
paper beyond that interval, and then changing the title
to make it serve the purpose of a
rendered the publisher liable a penalty of
204 if he did not issue a
the
specified,
was liable tohe
eerniied(-
paper on cer-
tt
tain specific days. The Stoke-upon-Trent paper
above-mentioned penalty of 20/ ;
wpuabslislh'oetd liable
e mannert3
itt
but as bthuetrenhoatd been;
been
no evasion of the law
, and the revenue• had not suffered,
it was not his intention to prosecute. In the case of the
Dunfermline
coodings wouldo be taken
News, the revenue had suffered, anti pro-
Mr. GEORGE THUMB' p ;gs
0E againstEN , the proprietor.
pohtgarnouvndo
of State for the Home
rwiNishGeSd.
cretary
Departmentto a ask thespecify Se-
13onner's-fields,
the grounds whhidch the Commissioners of the Metro-
Beathnpari.ohriebeintedonoptheen
Mr. IVALPOLE said g ' . y.'
the meetings to which the Hone,
Gentlemenopen-air
rbbanithee-dtiangs in
referred had iven great offence to the neigh-1
betide) d
• 0 . inasmuch as the subjects discussed at them were,
of a blasphemous, profane, and immoral character. Re-
peated complaints had boon made to the Commissioners
of Works, and in deference to those complaints the
meetings had been forbidden and the police in-
structed not to proceed summarily, but to dis-
parse the reeeting.—(Cries of " Hoar, hear.") It would
be remembered that some years ago meetings of a simiar
nature ware prohibited in the Green Park.—(Hear.)
Sir WILLIAM CLAY wished to know whether
meetings of the Wesleyans or other religious bodies
would he permitted?
Mr. WALPOLE said that all meetings would be con-
sidered equally objectionable.—
(Hear, hear.)
CORRUPT 1111ACTICES AT ELECTIONS DILL.
Colonel SIBTHORP wished to ask the Note° Lord
the
Member forahe City of Loudon, on what day he intended
the third reading of the Corrupt 1.,•
to move Practices at
Elections Bill ?
Sir CHARLES WOOD said his Noble
Friend was
not in his place, but he hod been given to dun erstand
that the fill would come on
the
first
thine
THE ST. LAWRENCE ° on
Monday. Mr. FLUME wished to ask whether•
objection to lay before Parliament there would he any,
spondence between the Bri • copies of the corre-
ttsh Government, the Go-
vernment of the United States
Canada respectively, res rg the opening of the navi-
gation of tiao River St. p
Laeof
vreuse?
tem
The CHANCELLOR the EXCHEQUER said that
the correspondence between the Government and the co-

bony had concluded, and that between the Government
end the United States was still ;going on. but it was con-
ducted in a setisfeettore and friendly spirit, and the Go-
vernment augured the best results from it.—(Helr-)
EXPLOSIONS IN MINES.
Mr. HUME inquired whether Government intended
to take steps to prevent the accidents which so con-
stantly occurred from explosions in mines? One bad
recently occurred which destroyed forty individuals.
Mr. WALPOLE said the subject was under °onside-
re tion, and he could give no opinion until the result of
the inquiry had been ascertained.
DIT3LIN HOSPITALS.
Mr. REYNOLDS wished to ask the Chancellor Of the
Exchequer if he intended to persevere in reducing the
annual grant to the Cork street Fever Hospital, and 10
other charitable hospitals in the city of Dublin?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
there would be no seduction in the estimate this Year'
but he thought that the whole subject required further
consideration.—(flear.)
LOSS OF THE BIRKENHEAD.
Mr. REYNOLDS wished to ask the Secretary to the
Admiralty, whether the watertight bulkheads were
moved from the steam-ship Birkenhead before she sailed
with troops for the Cepe of Good Hope?
Mr. STAFFFORD replied in the 'negative.
vessel was in every respeceperfect —(Haar, hear.)
FOREIGN INFLUENCES IN SPAIN.
,e
On the motion that the House' at its rising tid,joll''
until Monday next,
Viscount PALMERSTON rose to call the attenti°°
of the Government to reports which have lately circulated
in Europe. as to the exertion of foreign influences with,
view to effect changes in the constitution of Sp:
Prefacing his remarks by the expression of his
.„,fir,
opinion that a constitutional Government—meaning
thereby a Monarchy tempered by the action of a 11',T3'
;
liament—Wa3 the wisest and safest mode of governmethe
which the wisdom of man had ever devised—th„
most calculated to secure the peace and prosper
of a neetion—the Noble Lord proceeded to areal
that the preservation of sun . a Governite!°„
was a matter of great importance not only to the nevel',
itself, but also to the neighbouring countries who fitig".
be affected by
a change. Former] y constitutional
verntnent was the exception in Europe, and d
(34)000
the rule; but now the cases were changed. Ateiong;tbel
countries at present in the enjoyment of constitutleas
government the most remarkable were Portugal,
Spain, Sardinia, Greece,- Denmark, and BeleitilPi
(The Noble Lord afterwards added Prussia.)Al! O
thcao countries had attained their form of governess ry:
at a very recent period, some of them through their°/(
efforts, and the others by the direct interference of ,-
reign nation=. Among the most important of the coon;
tries who were without constitutional government "era
Austria, Russia, the dominions of the Sultan .a°
the Pope, and he believed he might add. Tusesq;
He did not include Naples in this list, because, thong;
the constitution was not acted on, it had not yet beef
formally suppressed. The English Government had toi
a great share in establishing in Portugal and Spain that
form of constitutional government which had so Ts,
neficially influenced the condition of the Peninsli
.The maxim in physics, that action and re-action ba
equal forces, was true in politics, as might be sees
se
now demonstrated in the reaction which wee now gehiee,
on in Europe from the events of 1848. In no eetillirlt3,
was this more apparent than in Sardinia and SP!og
The constitution of Sardinia was at present Worigjoe
most satisfactorily, although it might be said that fere;,
influence could be traced. However . that might :ea
he hoped that at no time would the Sart:Wlljg
Government apply in vain to the Government of
country for advice and assistance. The same reale,
was applied to Spain, and it was said that foreign
finances were at work there to bring chow', btchange in the form •of government. He In i,gely
be met with the remark that no nation .:h
more intolerant of foreign interference than the SPA
nation. But, however true that might be of France sip
Germany, it was a fact that no Government „-a
Europe had of late years been more subjected 10 !is-,
directed by foreign influence than that of SPfe.
and he thought tient if it were shown the; „"la
reign interference was at work for ill, it w°,ice
not be too much to ask that foreign infide-
should also be used to correct that evil interforeneei
There was an idea abroad, erroneous as he believE ;
that with every change of Ministry hero there • viil9i
complete change in the principles of the fortsien„P',-be
of this country. Nothing was mere incorrect, z'ilt
great outlines of the foreign policy were, he Vats
say, stereotyped, and were never deviated from'
foe
reign atatesman might have tho direction of the ',"O
reign affairs of this country. Believing that tileg
might be some storm hovering over Spain, and Itnew;.r`o
as he did the great influence exercised abroad by bed
consciousness that the Government always looked
with a favourable eye to the • establishnle;
of constitutional government, ha had endeavoured
~10
elicit from her Majesty's Ministers some declaration u,„
that subject feeling that no greater support could tiu,
given to the cause of constitutional government thea.,4
a declaration in that place from some memberseef ""
Administration of their desire to uphold it,—(Hear.) d
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, saiie
he had listened to the speech of the Noble Lord l're
that attention which the importance of the tuble;
and the respect due to the character and ebdeleip
of the Noble Lord demanded; but he could net "
contrasting; the Noble Lord's observations with has
notice he had put on the paper. He found there ttooes
the Noble Lord was to call the attention of the vernment to rumours lately circulated as to foreig iesa s
terference in Spain, directed to the object of mal"ht'st
change in the present form of constitutional goveratneed
in that country, but the Noble Lord had not fer°heriee
the House with any details of the rumours to
he had alluded, or informed them what
the foreign powers to whose influence e,
interference he had alluded. It was quite eowlito
tent for the Noble Lord or any other Hon. Metelser,
elicit from the Government any general deelaratl°:,
of opinion upon subjects of this nature, bat,
a general rule, he should have thought that it was e' ,0
tremely inconvenient for a Minister to be called on
rise in his place and express to Parliament his detera3u't
nation on any particular course of action with.,oie,
some reason being given for the appeal• so res'
ad
There certainly might be rumours of the nature
to, but at present no one could point to InY
71. e
facts of such a nature as would lead al,
one to express a decided opinion that Poweto,
of importance were combining for the '13.,
pose of effecting a revolution in, the government of SC:a..l,
Whatever, therefore, he might say upon this t ,
b
ject was, that no misconception might 'Joe,
as to the feeling of the Government on the-ras„aese
And here he might be permitted to relate a circunl,s` the
which occurred shortly after the accession
evince 4)
present Ministry to office, which would eeet
the feeling of the Government with resriTle
to the constitution at present existing in SPBln. • d
British Minister at Madrid was a Noble Lord prOnlo'e
to that high office by the former Government' and,bile
the time of the change of Government here •
Noble Lord thought it his duty to offer his resignation.
Considering, however, the high character of that Noble
his Sympathy
his acquaintance
constitutional cause in Spain, her
Majesty's Ministers had thought it their duty to advise
withthe
her Majesty not to accept that resignation. If it were
e foreign interference we-e goeg
on for the purpose of effecting a change in the constinv
w
the case, therefore, the i
rnusw
would be of
regarded
by that Noble Ler",
with a very jealous eye, and that he would nu'
bo slow with that friendly counsel tlid „deice
een bSepain, he was convinced that sot;
al
which it would be his duty to give for the purpose
interferencet° n government
of averting such a result. Ile (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) did not undervalue the effects 01
the quadruple treaty, but he would venture to seY
the part of the Government that if there were per';4l,,"
who were attempting to disturb that form of goverr
:
Rho
merit which had now for some time
existed
in
he hoped that thole persons h were
most
interested
the throne of Spain would recollect the eircumstailee4
under which the present dynasty occupied the throne:
The question would naturally arise, and would generally
e
be asked, why, if the ancient system which was subvert,
in Spain and in Portugal was to be restored] should not Bo",
the ancient dynasties then subverted be restored too'
why not. they also return to the thrones which they bait
forfeited, if the system with which they write,
identified was to be brought beck?—(Hear'')ti
If he took a general view of the working of the genet
system in Spain, it appeared to him that it had been
strictly a domestic system, and conducted for the beneu,
of the subjects of her Spanish Majesty.—(Hear, hear')
No attacks had been made upon the rights of the people;
while in Sardinia they had a modern instance of the sac'
cess of the Parliamentary system which should lead theta
to hope that our institutions were spreading on the
1
continent.—(Hear.) He trusted no discussion Would
take place upon this subject. The blessings of peace
this country depended upon leaving other nations t°
conduct their own internal affairs is the manner which:
they deemed best adapted to their own disposition,
best calculated to serve their own interests.—(flear•)'
The experience 'of 1848 should teach them
that extreme opinions were opposed to the
ciplo of modern civilization, and the partie°
to whom the Noble Lord referred, no
matter
whether they were despotic monarchs or red itepub;
beans, might depend upun it, that if the struggle 01
1848 were revived, it would Luke a long time indeed I°'
bring it to a termination.—(elear, hear.)
Sir DE LACY EVANS said he knew that suffieiel
tthheoseswpahnoithhouegohntstwitiut
constitution
ohni,m
cadn xtiloeu s
trusted for
ground existed in Spain to make the Noble Lord and
of the subject would increase the vigilance of her,'
Majesty's Government, in watching the movements of fe:T;
reign powere.—(Hear, hear.) 6
The subject then dropped.
HOME-MADE SPIRITS.
Mr. REYNOLDS said he had a motion on the pallor
t h e
this s a
fne toYt :eh
for to-night, to the effect " that this House do resolve
itself into a Committee, to take into consideration the
present mode of levying the duty on home-made spirits
in bond," and he should be glad to know if Governs
netnt intended to oppose it, because if they did it was
not his intention in the present state of public business
persevere with it.—(Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said be
could certainly not recommend the Hen. Gentleman to
make his motion at this advanced period of the se'
sion—(A laugh)—but if the Honourable Geetlemen
made up his mind to proceed with it, he should with
great respect tell him what course Geyer =tent intended
to pursue when the question come properly before tile
House.—(A laugh.)
The motion, that the House at its rising do adjourn
till Monday, was then agreed to.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
A messenger from the Lords brought up the under.'
named Bills, to which their Lordships had egreed:--
An Act to remove doubts as to the constitution of the
bishopric of Christchurch, in Nevi Zealand, and So

Tile

enable her Majesty. to constitute such bishopric, and to
• ....er'eshie her Majesty further to suheivide the diocese of
ei Zealand. . •
Also,"Ass-Aet to repeal eertaln disebilaies garter the
first of-George the First, chapter thirteen, and the sixth.
Of *George the Third, chapter. flitysthree. .
, Also, An Act to euthorise the granting of leases of
-n:: devised by the will of John Clarkson' Biqa de
ee*d, situate in the counties of Middlesex and Surrey.
Also,.An Act to enable Francis Adams, Esq., or other.
,a etle.ealamittee of the estate of Mary Shute Adams, a
't.n ;Person of unsound ,mind, for and in the name and on
behalf of the said Mary Shute Adams, to consent to the
exercise of certain powers contained in the marriage,
.settlement of the said Francis &lame, and in a certain
,Act of Parliament passed in the first year of 'the reign
of her. preSent -Majesty, and to exercise the power of
appointing new trustees contained. in the said settlement,
and for extending the powers of sale .and exchange cone
taiccd in ouch aettlament. . • • .
. .
MILITIA. BILL - -
The House then went again into Committeee on the
Militia Bill.
Lianas 25, being read, repealing so much of 42 George
,lg., as authorises the -militia being drawn aouteand em-
.bedied in cases of rebellion and. nsurrection, . .. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
,';the Government had considered:this clause, which, with
the permission of the, .Committee, they postponed on the
previous night. .The clause -had been • 'objected to by
iret a ttJeinher opposite; (Sir IleVerney), and he was sup,
ported by others, and there appeared to hou great sym-
neepothy also on- that (the. Ministerial) side of
beethe ,Howse SO- that there was a -very preponderating
d Ojection to the clause. Under these circumstances, the
Government, would not proceed with the clause.
e_ • Mr. BRIGHT suspected on the previous night that
the. Right Hon Gentleman had not then the slightest
-.'intention of passing this clime°. -'The Hon. 33atonet (Sir
Vereey) made some objection to it, and was followed
e.; byealltataber who.:_ had some notice on the paper with
regard toat; and the RighteHon. Gentleman, -without
,Naitiog foresny thing: like an expression of opinion on the
part ()fake Committee, rose tither-to withdraw or post-
. :pone it; he (Mr. Bright)thought he was assent to with-
-
drawit, but be ended- by , proposing 'to '0 tpora-e
allowelet ehe.Home Secretary seethe-Course treihich he
•,was lending himself. When he introduced theßill he
referred to this. clause and .to the fact• that the Govern-
meat had no intention of increasing their military power
-for purposes connected with the suppression of public
Opinion here, but that the Bill was intended entirely for
purposes of defence-, and .he relied on this clause also
• - 'when opposing the motion he attar the oath so as vont:ilk-
. • the service to England and Wales:---(Hear; booty The
withdrawal of the clause was'one of those-tricks 'which a
Government not rem arkahlefonits straightfotareardiees or •
-character for aboveboard-dealingcladasean‘pleyingetpon
thesliouse for the purpose of obtainineetheir support to
a this . obnoxious-measure.- lie (Mreßright)'believed the
clause was not placed in the Bill With eny intention to
tarry it. It seemed as if the arguments. Oft the Home
• Secretary were .to :be founded upon this cleuetawith re-
gard to the character of , the Bill, and their, -when the
time cameethe'clausemighabe conveniently got rid of,.
having served its purpese. The whobecondact of the Go-
vernment allowed • it,.to ,be .snspetterate grieved to say
aat(A. laugh)-ethat they had .not dealt 'honestly and
Openly with the House with -regard to this dense. The
econeansion was unavoidable 'that Ministers had endea-
voured to -persuade the House that the object was to raise
-80,000 men- for .defensive operations only, when, in re-
ality, it was as likely that what they meant to do was
to repress popular feeling, if they were bold and reek-
- less enough to propose as a Government what-they ad-
..'located in. Opposition. -
• ••• eTheCUA.NCELLOB, of:the EXCHEQUER said the
-neensolatioxi ,of: _Ministers under the reproaches of the
Belli-Gentleman was, that the' conviction of their 'truth,
lsrlletrasr not shared: by any considerable number of Mein-
"4e:be. ta The fact that the Secretary of State argued from
dMs clause proved hiseinoerity. If ho. could; have faire-
ifteen-that this clause.would not have remained in the
tia!3lll,, he would not have founded an argument on itaex-
t-4tebee. lliialtiglat-Hott. Friend had given up the clause
ftheio th reluctance, when one who could judge of the temper
eet, the. Honse.of Commons must have seen on the subject
the clause a
._,,very ,preponderant • opinion.: He. athe
2( lillabaellor, of the;Exchequer), hardly remembered' an
estance in -which-a:similarity of opinion hadbien more'
tagerieral. As toetheselatise being -the mosaimportint,
",.,ruts ins-portant Clause, he could not. agree in ' thinking
0.1-40.-. It might be important in the eyes of -the Hon."-
s,eetlernan, who wanted, to guard against some hypo-.
eticnl peace which. he thought Ministers Were..going
c-‘to fellow. No doubt, if they had then the profound
l'ae,Preseience which the Hon. Gentleman • had,. 'they
,'l"ught.,; find even :- iilitia 'Bill
the clauses 'of. tho
„0 support for a policy. _But that, he (the Chancellor
s-`"`"arle Exchequer) supposed, must be a'play of the
tere.fsecy of the. Hon. Gentleman.—(A laugh.) He
rCilYthOtlght the Hon. Gentleman's nearest neighboer
mold bave•shared in that somewhat 'sour pleasantry.
','-`,(l4anghter ) It was note], single objection on that side
t4lhe 'other which led to the relinquishment of the
•-ZaulOP.it 311;aS not resolved to withdraw it till the Go-
' Tarbinentevere convinced that :a majority of -the•Cem-
ratttee were. opposed to it. He had asked leave to have
seethe elate postpouede:he had not taken the opportunity
rmed.to him:of . moving, its omission, bathe had triedto -
ascertain the feeling of the Committee, and he was
esinvincedat was utterly in vain to attempt Lowry the
claw,
Mr
-elf: GIBSON, reminding the Committee of a re-
eaerk made by the Noble Lard at the head of the late
iseudiniaisteation, that no one knew so well as a late dis-
ti guish!4 statesman how to dress up a case, expressed
t eaospacion that this clause had been put into the Bill
o. dress .it up and give it a popular aspect. He felt, he
yemeld not say insulted, but treated rather lightly, in not
having the measure brought- before the Committee in a
bold, manly way. It•-was thought certain Members
!maid be quieted if Votes were given to the militia, and
tilemilitia; could not be.- called out to suppress insurrec-
t.iion. elle did not want to: be caught by these baits;
~.!,acy where Conceptioas',of- the Government's own; but,
-laaving induced lion Members' on his side to withdraw
'feu` opposition on account of one of those propositiods, he
should isay,that theconise pursued savoured a. little of
!!"t'pectiliat: practice known under the name of jockey-
Sometimes resorted to when it was impossible to
aarry a measure in's straightforward manners Both the
PrePositionsa to whicatehe.had. alluded were hammered
the Same Ile.would'ask'whst sort of insurree-
wn, what species of popular movement, wouldeall tor the
use of those 80,000 men? Would it be a resort to arms,
Public reeetinga?.' -tile begged to inquire first, what
btuaiegitimate• _occasion for calling out and'em-
thateforee? .Aed, secondly, whether by law it
Ibuid benecessary to call Parliament together and state
"ra: grounds for theeprocedure which, in 'the ease sup-
Dozed,' the Government Wohttlsadopt?'. •
CLAY-had nddsubt Ministers were strongly con-
timed that rebellioh in thiatonntry was purely Impos-
ee'tblee He did not think the clause an important one;
, since it had Afpeared, it was nnwise to withdraw it,
.reansitheaboaslatiOn brought' against the Government
would
be in which it was' more likely
'4l ho believedahan in the Hons.' of Commons,
• J.-BELL -could net believe there was anyeinten-
tion, f •
iertckery. onethe part 'of Ministers in proposing
aid withdraivingthie clansee:.But he thotight it uhwise
La follow the example .ofeContinettal- kingdoms' 'Which
Preserved: order-only by -.artaihs: • '••
MraMOFFATThad viewed the clause!, 'with sada-.
motion ass showing that the' Government did notlook
to the passibility of a popular outbreak,'lsat 'hid ton&
de..ne cin the people. It had grown into au axiom that
litiamen were-the last kind of troops that ought to be
employed in putting down local disturbances.'
The ATTORNEY-GEN-ER-AL;in reply
tions of the Right Hors. Ist *tex7._ to the clues-
for Manchester, stated
stated what was
that the Canceller of the
theequer ,had very clearly
the,. object. ofh
.clveithdrawal of the
clause. The 'Committee Must first l
etde whether this
the "Rob!? jirethe'neeessity
clam should form para.
arose lotaanswering eh e aeti gat
to
repeal
.ii;nr,,te:)efe.tahuese;4,.2l4f
tien'aelating to-thedefinition ofin'siarreertltkinaa's'citiee-
the-elense, which was intend'ed
struck out, "ait weat -
Geotgeilllo were
to give a definition; and if-the 'eTtiike remained unn.part
emery
the Bill, the °mein never could' arise when se Part ef
would be called oat. for this service; eee ditremilitia
the: Government t ought •to on • •flq't tovide hink
to prih
Right Hon. Gentleman with a definition: in reeetei to
thainitaild,qiieStion, it anti *aided
.by ,taat -o a
f , Perila
went that;in cases of.rebellion, &n., it should. he" lawful
for her Majesty to employ the force, thiaeasasier,
"
communicated to Parliament, if Parliament were sitting
and declared in Council, if Parliament were ndt!sitting
and• also by proclamation.
Mr. EVANS expressed his surprise that the Secretary,
for the Homo Department' hail not explained whet' the
?lame had been introduced,. A dissolution was approach-
ing,e.ee - After stating' what he conceived to be the motives
"'eh firstindeced the 'Government to insert the clause,
and tit-onto-propose to withdraw it, the Hon. Gentlemaa
tiolniaed. his- opinion 'to be that they
.who adopted the
'ause were right, and that those who objected to were
vistii°p*arfe . witlidratial;ol 'the clause would excite t4O.
len btthe country;
heriPAClte• dill not ce-nsibi• that thrs Committee.
Gthe,n,Yth_:hir to do with tho motiVes which actueted the-.
---toent‘e • • ' the withdrewal
of the
ett er The introduceon or -
wag le to
rti.?:t bnt'he could hot help asking
refer 'the Committee if the Govern
of whet ,usa,
Went were e Bill to a
hoc
Ur, Elereutla.,t liberty it? eMend
tion of itio 42a,- Said; that in comparing the Illth sec-
the present Bill°°°Fge with the oath prescribed by.
sisteriey. B thi're eOpeared to him t 6 be an incon-
etr° lwear 'the); is Bill the militiaman was called upon
saingdoin, t he. would
serve in any part of the United
just alentioneud-,-3' the. • 111th clause of the Act he had
washinto a t was provided thet
.th 6 forces shoeld be
obvieue7 Mt of Great Britain—the distinction in tween serving in the United -Kingdom and
The Great Britain.ATTo •
Gentlema
o RNEY-GENE L 'thought
RA the lion.
the 54th l
had overlooked a more recent Act, that of
which. George 9-eoegellT., 'Called the interchanga Act, by,
mililia might be• removed from one kingdom,
to the
other.scribed uitici, He would there find that the oath re
was inserted in the
militiamanwaa the same as that which
G.
T present Bill.
retie° •t, UuMPSON entered his protest against thp
vision y which was obtained ueon this clause on the di-.
4st night, as he con,idered it to have Cc-
waster circumstances of 8 most extraordinary.
haracter. The —eh* Member addressed the House for
tioxeem,vheeah le time amidst continuone cries of " gees-
Aster moves
made Win wholly inaudible in the . gallery.
oral blare-anal efforts to obeaia a hearing, he
toleered that the- Chairmanagain. rep3rt progress and ask leave
Mr. BRIGHT s
blight be the d
'd it must be adenittedthet, whatever
Clause itself, the fact of importance
attached
drawnll by e act of its having been introduced into
the Governmen to the
b - t and then 'afterwards with-
Y the GovernMent was. of sufficient. importance
to nuke the clause deseavin. g .of, the „attention of the

THE

Committee. lie hoped, thoreforo, it Would be allowed
to he discussed with fairness and patience.
Mr. G. TIJOMPSON assnrcd the CotiamittCe he did
.not wixh to trespags 'upon their' attention b-fon4 what,
was necessary forth. expres4iou Of his honest opinion.
The Secretary fir thellorne Department had said that,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer bad withdrawn ails
elaustt with relticy,uce. The clause was one which intst
have-occopied - the attention of the GoTerntnent, and
could net have been Cdocted by them without the most
deliberate consideration and the most solid jtitlgnaent of
.its propriety. Nowt-what-be wanted'to kaow.was, fiat;
what were the reasons which 'induced the Government
to introduce the clattse into the Bill; and, secondly,what
were the reasons Which had since induced them to with-
draw is? •

Mr. WALPOLE said ho would answer both the ques-
tions which had been put by the Hon. Genticuaan, and'
that with perfect ei%celify. First, the clause Wig intro
duced into the Bill' because the Government thought'
(and ooze more strongly than himself) that they ought
not to- raise by this Bill any
other force than that of a
defensive foree—a foree not to be used except En resist'
foreign attecks., That.was the reason why the clause
was introduced, into the. Bill. - He could assure the Com'-
mittee that until they had come to the ctanse'latt'night,
,ho, for one, had wished to - retain
bemuse hie'
thought there would be a 'great adviintage'#l•l3(n
calling out the militia for the purpose. of stipPiessing'
any insurrection or rebellion that might takeplace;
bat when the Committee came to the el awe a strop;;
opposition was"raised to it, not ordy by the Opposition
side of the House but by Hon. Members on the Mr--
nisteried side, and' communictitiens were made to the,ici
Government from all quarters respecting it. Ho could;
assure the Committee thetawas merely out of deference;
to what he believed to be the predominant opinion of the`;
Committee that he had given up, and he would say re.,
luctantly *given up, this-elause of the Bill.
Sir H. VERNEY wished to say that when hc sug7,
gested last night. that the.clause should be omitted he
was surprised it should- have met with so much approba-
tion on;both sides of the House. His sole object
originally was to call attention to what he conceived was
an interference with the prerogatives of the Crown.
I3RIGHT • admitted that he had felt very warmly
on the subject, but, after the explanation'which the Right
Hon. Gentleman had given, he begged to say that any-
thing which had fallen from him •that eouldpossibly
reflect on the honesty or sincerity of the Right Hon.
Gentleman he most distinctly withdrew.
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the clause ... 6L
• Against it ... f a
Majority against' the clause" a--90
On clause 28 being bsought up with amendments,'
~ Mr. GIBSON asked if Governnient were deter-
mined to adheretto the exemptions of 42 George IIL.? If '
they exempted the students of Oxford and Cambridge,:
they ought to exempt the students of universities which,
had started up since, the passing of that Abt. Why were
Thames w'atermen to be exemPted ? Really the exemp-
tions ought to be adapted to the present-day. He also
wished to know what the Government meant by a
poor man the father of More than one child born in wed-
lock." The deputy-lieutenants were to decide that
point, and,it would be useful to them to know what the
definition of Government was. • - • •

Mr. EW.ART considered ,that GovernMent had given
him .a a plecrge on a former occasion that they wourd con-
sider the &Aims of the students of the London University
to_ exemption from service. • •

The -ATTORNEY-GENERAL did not consider
himself called on to state what a' poor man was. It
was impossible to give a definition of the words " poor
man" which would apply to every pan of the country,
because they formed a relative term, and he who was a
per man in one place could not be considered so in
another. There must be 3,ery considerable discretion
left with the deputy-lieutenants, and ho had great faith
that that, discretion would be properly exercised.
A desultory discussion ensued, after whioh4be -clause
as amended by ,the Home Secretary was agreedto.
The RIGHT HUN. GENTLEMAN then brought tip" three.
additional clauses, -the first prescribing that the qualifi-
cations of officers might be derived 'from personal as
well as from real estate ; the• 2,3, providing that a 'Sup-
plemental corps might be raised by voluntary enlistment
in one county to supply the deficiency in another
county; and the 3d, extending thei time bf appeal, and
increasing the number'of places itatihich notices might
be given.

'These several clauses were agreed to and' kidded to.
the Bill,, as was another brought pup by the Attordey-
General exempting Quakers without property who re-
fused to serve from being sent to the comtnon gaol.
Colonel SIBTHORP and Sir D. L. EVANS, ,who had'
notices of clauses upon the paper, the one relating to
the qualifications and appointments of officers, !arid the
other extending to this Act the exemptions contained
in the 44th George HT., c. 54, withdrew them bon-the
understanding that the Government vvotild.consider them
opviotts to the next stage of the Bill:
Mr. HODGES proposed a clause to follow 16, pro-
viding,that in case of any volunteer or substitute being
found guilty ,of desertion he should be sentenced to
serve for the same period as if he had originally enlisted
therein in any of ...her Majesty's regiments stationed
abroad. •

Mr. BERESFORD did not think the remedy which
the Hon. Gentleman, had proposed was tho'best that
might be chosen for the evil to which he had re-
ferred. lie did not think it was by any means a desir-
able principle that a man who had misconducted himself
in the militia service should be considered as fit for the
regular army. He thought that that would be a slur
upon the standing army which be was sure no Hon.
Gentleman would wish to throw upon it. Besides, if a
man had deserted from the militia in the third or fourth
year of his training, it would be hardly worth while to be
at, the expense of sending him abroad for complete the re-
maining year of his .service.--(l.lear; hear.) 'Under
those circumstances, h© hoped the Hon. Member:wOuld
withdraw his amendment.

The amendment was immediately negatived without a
ivision.

The preamble was then agreed to. • Ize
The. House thereupon restmaed, and
The CLIAIRMAN reported that the Bill had .Patised
through Committee, with. amendments. •: . •
, The Bill was ordered to be read nil:Aril • time, on
Thursday next.

NEW ZEALAND- GOVERNMENT ,BILL.
On the motion that this Bill be reads ticoht.l timee.
Sir W. MOLES WORTH expressed Ws' digs-I)ooldt-
ment at the contents of the Bill. He was induced to en-
tertain a favourableimpression of the weasitire' by the
statement of the Right lion. Gentleman the Secretary
for the Colonies. • On looking into the' Bathe was sorry
to say. that_ impression had utterly disappeared. In -;the
first instance he objected to the LegielatiVe Coienotla
being nominated. • It appears thae the colony Was to'be
divided into two parts. Within the English part -of NeW
Zealand they were to have English laws. In the-nafito
part they were to have native customs and laws,`pio-
vided they were not repugnant to the laws of hrthanity.
With regard to the English port of New Zealand, a divi-
,
sion was to be made of six provinces, each of which was
to have all the incidents of complete authority: The
eup,erintendents of the different provinces were to have
the.ordinary functions of a colonial •governor;bleeept
that they were to be responsible to the governor in ohlef,
and, not to the Colonial Office. In respect to 'the'
provision of a period of two years being given, within
which the -anent of the governor might be given
to a measure, it was his (Sir • William Moles-
worth's), intention to move an afriendment in
Committee. The measure was of a mist complicated
character. It would create several governors and- se-
veraltlegisleturas, each of which might have a code
of laws of their own. How, then, was -it poesible
for any person to say what was the taw .of 'New ZTa-
land? The code of each previa& might' be`different.
He had no doabt but that the Parliament of 'New Zen:-
land would fill the.statute books with Acts of the-greats
est wisdom; but it did not 'follow that these Acts would
become law. These Acts might be repealed in three
ways. First, by a, prochroation of 'the 'governor. fri '
Chief; secondly, by instructions from the Colonial Office
to the governor; thirdly, by an Act of the 'General As-
sembly at any time. And then again, this Act of the:Ge-
neral,Assembly might be within twoyears retooled. The
Bill was well calculated-la create the- greatest con=
fusion. In reading through this Bill; when they found
a clause containing a :liberal provision Thep foUnd
another that destroyed such provieion and then 'they
found a third that destroyed the destroyer.,..-(Latighter.)
There were to-be two enihappy judges to 'administer
the laws. . Surely if they recpired separate legislatures
they ought to have eeparate judges. The provinces
NAlv Zealand should not be suberdinato
athres—they ought to 'be made municipalitiee, with
Power _to elect. their own corporate officers, deter-
position of petthaP
mina tho salaries to be paid to them, and to !rake bye-
laws. Those erintendents would be Owed in the
wal iron! dhe.apotsie When he considered what that
wsro made subject
tendento, ho.wow, ten they were to select their stiperin-
welly taxing
offie.eoorreaced that• they would -be like so
the worst description, unless they
lions. lie obje-cled.esepPecer:lkylartcoean control by
nominate', legislative
council..
eery sir
felt cnownvzit:nciendatdhat such nomination would
trin an, other colony,
council.
work worse in‘
inasmuch as there was metro.
it. He also strongly-objected to tits aft° g feeling
against
land to the settlers. It was a condition of Crown
minish the value of the grant in the eyes that vrould di-
lly this Bill the New Zealand Company would sett
first charge upon all the lands of New Zealatilciave he
amount of ss. per acre. A gross-injustice would
be done to the settlers of New Zealand. He muylt
sail
upon the House to protect the.coLony frourthe influtitibe
of the New Zealand Company.' This company+ 'by
with the Parliament had obtained-
its influence
d F d The large
from the Consoadate au .present Act
grants
would make them three mortgagees oti-the land .of,
New
first Zealand,rg and by the 74th clause they were'to
have the
b e upon the lands.. He hoped.
that the House would as._ u
eist him in stopping ono of the-
er
many jobs that had been perpetrated in' that -Haase .by p
the. New Zealand Company. The blue books contain
accounts of many public meetings being held in New
Zealand. In 1850 an Act was passed to give a eensti.:
colonies.
He took the
tutiou to all the Australian,
re the ;souse liberty, at the time, of laying before
t ought to have
sketch of a constitution which he though
" been given to them. Oa the arrival of the reports o
f
the debates that then took place up ,
on the sutket, it 3P-
pears that numerous public meetings were held Dew.
Zealand, the result of which was the sending.Of I cam
her of petitions to that House, and memorials to the
.Secretary, of State, in favour of some such constitution
ac he had suggested for Australia. If the principle of
this subdivision be carried out, the time would most pro-
bably come when, instead of six, they should have sixty
legislatures, by the natural.inerease of the population.
The address from Nelson suggested that one central le-
gislature and an executive was quite sufficient
for till purposes. What- he (Sir William Moles=
worth) would propose, therefore, was to omit
from the Bill all the clauses which had rate-