The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-15 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS. May 14.
CAN'AIN WARNER'S LONG RANGE.

Earl TALBOT should not have ventured to obtrude
this question on their Lerdships, but for the excitement
on the subject of the national defences which pervaded
the puelic mind. The subjact of the long range had been
long before their Lordships, having been under inquiry
on various occasions since 1832, when a Commission ap-
pointed by the Creivan, consising of Sir Richard Keats
sad another distinguished t ffic r, reported in its favour.
It was alter the year 1832 that he (Earl Ttilb n) to-came
cogteernt of this invention, and he soon felt conviec, d
that is was of such a nature as sit all events to entitle it
to be inquired into. Ile had witnessed several experi-
ments at Wandsvioneh, which proved most successful.
Soon after that a Committee was appointed to examine
into the subject. Sir Howard Douglas, a very eminent
man in his profession, sat upon that Committee, but he
went into the investigation wifn his mind made up that
the invention were all moondaine. He (Earl Talbot)
had a very different opinion. Grew, difficulty
was experieecA by Captain Warner in securing
a proper trial. The la.e Mr. Soames put a
ship of 310 toes bundens, the John of Gaunt at his
disposal. The vessel was built of teak wood end in
sound condition, and it was taken down to Brighton
to be operated upon. There it was publicly blown up
by Captain Warner in the most e ffectual manner.
Captain Henderson and Ceptain Dickesen RN., who
were both present on the occasion, subscribed to a cs r-
tifieate certifying to the success of the experiment.
uitgwasousarbbosiocid, to lenllY wade in his (Lordshow that Captain
,Araniobtohte,:)exopwe experiment was sabs' quenily wade in his (Lord
ralbot's) own 555ighb
neighbourhood,
Warner's missiles could be thrown to a considerable
distance. Commissioners appointed by the Government
also witnessed it. It was true the shells did not go in
the direction that was wished, because the wind was
unfavourable; but the Commissioners, without examin-
ing the spot where they fell, went away, and hastily re-
ported that the experiment was an entire failure. lie
(Earl Talbot) contended that it was not a failure, and
that a thing of that kind ought not to be pronounced
upon until it had been tried more than once or twice.
Captain Warner still endeavoured to press the matter
upon the attention of the Government, but did not re•
ceive any encouragement. Lord John Russell was un-
derstood to have stated in a private room that the
Captain was at liberty to take his invention where he
liked. The matter slept for some time longer, when
Captain Warner wrote a letter to Lordndmerston,which
was afterwards handed over to the Secretary of State
for the Colonies, stating that if the invention was
taken to the Cape of Good Hope, the Kafir war could
soon be put an etel to through its instrumentality. The
offer, however, was not embraced. Sir George Murray,
the late Master. General of the Ordnance, had drawn up
a document setting forth the manner in which the inven-
tion ought to be treated between the Government and
Captain Warner; and if that arrangement had been car-
ried out, the question would have been settled long ago.
It might be said that he (Earl Talbot) would have done
better if, instead of meking this motion, he had gone to
the Government amid asked for an inquiry. Now he
coneessed that he had had quite enough of applications to
the Government, If he went to the Noble Earl at the
head of the Government he would tell him that he was
not a professional man, amid that he must refer him to the
Master of the Ordnance. It ho went to the Master
of the Ordnance, that Minister would refer him
to the Commander-in-Chief ; and if he applied
to his Grace, no doubt he would receive in reply one
litters, of his pithy that he must decline to meddle
with the thing unless u was properly brought before
his notice.—(A laugh.) He (Earl Talbot) was anxious,
therefore, to urge the matter on the attention of Parlia-
ment; and he hAieved that if the invention were adopted
by the Government, it would save the country the ex-
pense of a militia force.—(Laughtet.) He made this
statement advisedly, although it appaared to cause a
smile. Captain Warner had received very great offas
f Powers, but preferred an arrangement that
would fosreeCigurne the advantage of his discovery to his native
country. He (Earl Talbot) would only say, in corclu-
sioe, that he wua a: xi els, as far as in him lay, to have
the metier thori.ughly sifted and investigated. All he
a,keid for Captain Warner was an inquiry—a thing which
ought not to be denied to any teen. His professional
experience induced him to believe that by rej ,cting Cap-
tain Warner's overtures they might suti-et iherest'lves
to the loss of chat Might prove the salvation and the
defence of this country. The Nubia Earl sat down by
into the
that a Select Committee be appointed to it quire
nto the Warner inventians, and the several reports con-
fleet-eel therewith.

—Trio E id of f he-t. n.t rise
ARDwicKE sa; 1 di --, for
the purpOS3 of opposing the motion of Lis legible
Friend, but he wished to know how be desired to con-
duct his proposed iequiry. The country had had this
subject before it for a number of years, and it hal beau
e xamiced by scientific men and by Committees ao-
pointed by the O:dnance and and also by the Ord-
nance and Admiralty combined. All these investige-
,
1 :ions, however, had failed to elicit from Captain Warner
any informtion with regard to the nature of his inven-
tions unless a large amount of money was first guaran•
teed to him by the Government. What he, therefore,
wished to know was, whether, if this inquiry
was insti-
tuted, Captain Warner himself would be prepared to
give perfect and thorough information on the subject of
110 investigation ; because it he was not disposed to lay
before the Committee the mode of conducting his opera-
tions, with the drawings, plans, and instruments them-
selves, the inquiry would be utterly and entirely useless.
(Hear, hear,) If Captain Warner camo forward to
stipulatethat he must receive the promise of 400 000 L,
or even 12,000/., as he had done before, there could be
no possible use in appointing the Committee. But, in
the hope that he would be ready to give the necessary
information he
of
magic
pose the inquiry now asked for.
(the Earl of Ila,rdwicke) would not op-
Lord DE ROS said that he had gone to Winchester
Downs, by
after fl ttaiDngother his
to 800 Captain Warner's long range tried. He passed
the authority of the Csmniander•in-Chief,
the night, and a very long night it was—out upon
the downs—(A laugh)—while Captain Warner, in a kind
boa
circle,. by bayptain the
madeai d of toonrecheesx,cwasaes
and,. in sheet, they waited till broad daylight before
the balloon was got ready. When it was nearly ready,
Captain Warner said it would be very dangerous, and he
must Lilts his glass to see if there were any cattle near.
With one delay and another their patience got quite ex-
hausted, and be (Lord De Ros) could not stop any
longer, and he told the Captain that if he did set his
balloon off it would be very dangerous. Captain War-
ner then. speculated about what it would have done if it
had gone off, and wished him (Lord De Ros) to say that
if it had gone off it would have done its work; but he
refused, telling him that he did not attend there to be
convinced by his arguments, but to see the effects of his
operations. Be then returned to town, satisfied that it
was all an evasion. It Captain Warner was really so
anxious to have his invention tried, why did he not take
a steamer and go to the rock of Atlas, where might drop
one of his long-range ballo ens without doing any mis-
ohlff to life or property ? or why did he not ge to
Si,ce'npas, where he would have several miles of clear
strand for his operations?
The Earl of A.LBEHARLE said that Captain War-
ner had had every facility affarded him for conducting
his experiments', hut they had all proved faituree. The
opinion that Sir Howard Duugtas had given in evidence
Ws") that Captain Warner was labotiring under a hallu-
cination on this subject.
The. Earl of MINTO said that this invention was not
new. It was not the invention of Captain Warner, but,
as far back as 1803, a gentleman of the name of Scott
connived that he might doitrey the French floilla in
13suloene harbour, by weans of aliens delivered from
balloons. 13y a very ingenious method, more ingenious
than Captain Warner's, Mr. Scott adjusted the time of
the fallieg of the shot to the flight of the balloon. That
invention was eXamined by tree Admiralty in the }ear
1804, but the Government of that day did not think it
worth while to adopt it. He (Lord Minto) actually had
a model of &lr. Seott'e inventive' in his vwu house at
this moment, and he had offered tOethow it to.Ceptain
Outdo and Captain flutings, •,_ •

The Du to of ARGYLL said that, although incompe-
tent to give a prore,sional opinion on this subject, he
might state
,that, linia,ning to be stayieg at Brighton
when tho experitnent was made upon the John of
Grinut with C,ptain Warner's short range, he perso-
nally witnessed the experiment. Certainly the vessel
was west effectually destroyed, as far as that went;
but the impression left on the mind of the spectators
was very much like that described as having been lett
on the minds of those who witnessed 'he experiments
with the lo: g range—namely, that it was impossible to
be confident that the instrument could be made available
against an enemy; nor could they be sure that some
explosive material had not been introduced into the ship.
He was satisfied that the Committee would end like the
invention, in smoke, unless Captain Warner would give
up his secret, and fully and fairly state the principles
upon which he proceeds, and could show that it was
also applicable in the k vent of war.
The Earl of MAL\IESBUIIY thought that whilst
the Noble Earl who introduced that motion appeared
rather too sanguine on this subject, all those who had
spoken on the opposite side had thrown cold water
on these supposed inventions in a manner hardly con-
sistent with the mode in which discoveries were met
in this age of activity and improvement. He thought
if his Noble Friend would promise their Lordships
to bring Ciptain Warner before the Committee, and if
Captain Warner should then, without any further heii-
tation, premise to give an intelligible account of his in-
vention to the Members of the Committee, that it would
be a pity to refuse him the means of proving the utility
of his invention.

The Elrl of WICKLOW thought it would be unjust
to call on Captlin Warner to reveal his secret to the
Committer, unless some promise of reward were held
out to him.

The Earl of ELLESMERE observed that Captain
Warner laid claim to two perfectly distinct inventions,
one of which was stated not to be his own. One of
these inventions bad been tried by the Austrians at the
siege of Veuic:?, where it might have succeed hard not a
current of air caused the shell to fall into the sea instead
of into St. Mark's Place. He thought that the lung
range of Captain Warner was worthy of being inquired
into by some practical persons whom their Lordships
might appoint.
Earl TALBOT said that he should have no hesitation
whatever in producing Captain Warner before the Com-
mittee, and he fat certain that Captain Warner would
there make any disclosure that their Lordships might
think that be ought to make.
Lord VIVIAN thought that it would be quite im-
possible for their Lordthjps to conduct an inquiry of this
kind without the assistance of some scientific men.
Earl GRANVILLE said it would be very easy for
the Government to appoint some persons to make the
inquiry. Their Lordships' influence would be diminished
if they undertook to inquire into questions of this sort,
with respect to ,which they were hardly competent to
arrive at a conclusion.
The Earl of MALMESBURY hoped that if a Com-
mittee were appointed, it would be composed principally,
if not exclusively, of such of their Lordships as were
conver4ant with military matters, and were competent
to judge of the star-ments of Captain Warner. He
wished to guard the Government on one point, and to
state distinctly that he could give to Captain Warner no
sort
001: 0 promise
we b yany o
tha thistfthose r
expi mutton
which a
aatrion onhis parttthe first
would
be
he appeared to have cxpected from the Government.
As far as the Government was concerned he must appear
before the Committee and give his explanation on the
understanding that no promise or bribe was held out to
him to reveal hi, svcrer.
TALBOT re-Toted that he was perfectly ready
to produce C..ptain Warner before the Committee, and
he did not want the Government directly or indirectly
to part with a single sixpence. The inquiry would be
wholly of a ju liciat character.
The appointment of the Committee was then agreed to.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF GUAIMONS, May 14.
The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four
o'clock.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Ler& amendments to the following Bills were
considered and agreed to:—
Aberdare Market and Slaughter houses.
Bradford Piece II flls.

D2dley Waterworks.
The following Bills were read a third time and
passed:—
Abbey Tintern and ifgswear Roads.
Battle and Robartsbriage Road.

Blyth and Tyre 13iiivwWy.
C!aussen'a Patent Flax Company.
Lanabarsfs Estate.
Lancashire and Yorkshire and York and North Midland

Laeds Waterworks (No. 2).
London (City) Improvements.
Londonderry Bridge (No. 1).
Londonderry Bridge (No. 2).
Middlesbrough and Guisbrough Railway.
Preston and Garsteng Road.
Railway Passengers A.,;turrince Company.
Sharplea and floghton Road.
Shillingford, Wallingford, and Reading Road, and
Shillingford Bridge.
Shields and Murpeth Roads.
Yeovil and Ilchester Turnpike Trusts.

Belfast Custom House, &J.
The following Bills were considered and agreed to,
and ordered to be read a third time:—
Chelsea Waterworks.
Great Western, Shrewsbury, and Birmingham; Shrews-
bury and Chester; Shrewsbury and Hereford; Birken-
head, Lincashire, and Cheshire Junction; and Here-
ford, Rait, and Gloucester Railway Companies.
Grcen&ld and Shepley Lane Head Road.
Kirkby Stephen and Hawes Road.
Leech, Branford, and Halifax Junction Railway.
Leek and I-Ilssop and Middlehills and Buxton Road.
Stockport and Nlarple Road.
Wakefield and Denby Dale Road.
INorcester and Hereford Railway.
CORK IMPROVENIENT BILL.
On the motion for the third reading of this Bill,
Coljnel CITA.TTERTON , proposed that the second
reading be deferred until Tuesday next.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH, as Chairman of the Com-
mittee that had passed the Bill, resisted the amendment.
After a brief discussion, the amendment was with-
drawn, and the Bill was
raioNs read a third time and passed.
PE

Mr. KERSHAW presented several petitions from
Lancashire aainst the Militia Bill.
Mr. DUN aCAN presented a petition from Dundee
against the Wiynooth grant.
Sir JOSHUA WALMSLEY presented a petition
from the corporation of Oldham against the Militia Bill.
Mr. E. DbNISON presented several petitions from
the West Riding 3gainst the Maynoeth grant.
Sir R. 11. INGLIS presented two petitions from
Jamaica complaining of distress, and praying for pro-
petition of slave grown sugar. tection sgaiust the cow
Mr. REYNOLDS presented a petition from the Ro-
man Catholic iutishitants of Dukinfi:Ad, praying that
B„,r.t) Citholic charities b 3 exempt from the operation
of the Charitable Trusts Bill.
Mr. LIUM...:; presented a pethiori from Trelawnoy,
in Jammics, pra)il.g the House to take miJisures
to rupply the island with sulficiAnt labour to enable
the sugar planters to compete with the producers of slave-
grown eugar.
Mr. J. S ruARr presented a petition from Newark,
pretling the! II '11;0 to ifiquire it:to the caases of intem-
perance with the view at ditieovering a remedy for the

Colonel FREESTUN presen'ed a petition from the
Roman Catholic inhabitants of Radipole, Weymouth,
praying the attention of the House to the b,tt( r
admi-
n of the Charitable Trusts Bill nuw before the
Hence. The petitioners state their b:-lief that, there is
an Act of Elizabeth in the statute-book, for upwards of
e century and a half, which has fallen into disuse. They
therefore pray that the said Bill, as it now stands, may
not pass into law.

GEORGE DUNCAN presented a petition from
the members and adherents of the Baptist Church as-
sembling in Rattray's-court, Lingate, Dundee, against
the grant to Maynoeth.
EDUCATION IN IRELAND.
Sir HARRY VERNEY wished to ask what was the
state of the book question connected with the Irish
Board of Educa,ion; whether the plan suggested by the
Committee of the Irish Board to the Treasury, and the
recommendation in Mr. Lingen's letter, appended to it,
was likely to be carried out?
Mr. HAMILTON said this was a very difficult matter
to deal with, as there were several confltaing interests
at stake, but the subject was under the consideration
of the Treasury, and he hoped in a few days to commu-
nicate to the Chancellor of the Exchequer a plan by
which those difficulties might be surmounted.—(llear.)
SMUGGLING IN IRELAND.
Admiral BOWLES wished to ask the Secretary of
the Treasury, whether any report had been received
from the efficers of Customs at Dublin, of landings of
contraband tobacco within the limits of that port; and
also, whether smuggliog in Ireland had not increased
since the withdrawal of the revenue cruizars employed
there formerly?
Mr. HAMILTON said that it esrtainly did appear
from reports which had reached the Treasury that
the landing of contraband goods had taken place
almost within the port of Dublin. No less than 2,000 lbs.
of tobacco was seield on the 30th of last month near
Dublin, and a boat was found deserted at Kings-
head which had evident maths of having
contained tobacco. There vvas no reason
however, for suppceing that smuggling on the coast of
Ireland was on
Qt
the
ARANTIN inerease.—(Etiea L Ar, hear.)
WS.

Mr. HUME cvlsth-d to ask whedierany reportalad
been receiv4d from the Sanitary Congress at Paris, to
consider the questunt cf quarantine; and whether any
and what tn:p.lifioation had beat made as respects the
laws of cparantine?

Mr. IiENLEI: said the report of the convention
which islet at Paris had been received. It proposed a
modification of the quarantine laws, but none had yet
taken place. The subject, however, was under diecus-
sion, and he entertained considerable hope that a satis-
facto'', result would be ultimate arrived at.—(Hear.)

CO
LAW AMENDMENT BILL.
WAN wished to know whether it was the
intention of Government to persevere with this Bill?
Mr. HENLEY said he should endeavour to induce
the House to read the Bill a second time, and then to
refer it to a Sclect Committee, to see if it could not be
put in a fit watt, tor passing into a law.—(bear, bear.)
DESERTION OF SEAMEN IN AUSTRALIA.
Mr. MASTERM XN wished to know,il the Govern-
Ment w era prepared to adopt any mesiures to prevent
the desertion of seamen in Australia, as such a practice
had become an evil of the greatest magnitude,
and a large number of ships were now
actually NW up in the Australian ports ,from want of
htuadsi • •

Sir JOHN PAKING lON thought the House would f
feel that the q testton put to him by hie Honouruble
Friend related to a portion,
send not the least im-
p"rtallt Portion, of a must rxrraerdieary emergeticy
which had arisen in our Austreliin col nies, itt conse-
quence of the recent discovery of gold there, an emer-
gency which; it was hardly necessary fcr him to state,
had commanded the most serious attention of her Ma-
jesty's Government.--(ifear, hear) In putting the
que,,tion his Hon. Friend had alluded to the number of
snipe the crews of which had deserted, end perhaps it
weird be satisfactory to the House i'' he were to state the
exact position of the matter in Port Melbourne
when the diseier,,ries of gold had been on the
largest scale.—(Hear, hear.) On the 6.h of Ja
nuary there were 35 ships :Is Port Melbourne, the ag-
gregate number. of the crews being 816, and of these
417 had deserted. Tne meat pres,eng repregentations
hid been made Upon this subject by the Goternors
of New South Walos and Vittoria, urging
upm the Government the etsolute necessity of rendering
some mileary or oteer aeeistatice under the evraorei-
nary state of things which Lad arisen; and only
within the last few days a dispatch had been
rec:Aved from Victoria, pointing out the -groat
evil that was resulting to the commercial
interest of the colony from the system eet desetenn
which was going on.—(fiear, hear.) Udder these cir-
cumatances it hal been decided by the Government to
send two companies of infantry to Sydumy, and four to
:Vlelbourne, where the greatest quantity of geld had
been found.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.") The financial
state of these colonies was extremely prosperous, and
Gyve:nine:A therefore felt that they had a right to call
upon them not only"to provide for the pay and support
of the troops, but also to secure them the necessary bar-
rack accommodation.—(Hear, hear.) Government
had also thought it right that the assistance of
a man-of-war should be appointed to Port Melbourne,
and that very day he had sent a dispatch to the
Governor of that colony, informing bin that ar-
rangements had been made for placing
one of the men-of-war in those seas at his
disposal, and directing the Governor to put himself at
once in communication with the officer commanding
the ship.—(Hear, hear.) The Governors of both
colonies had conducted themselves with much
wisdom and great vigour, and be really did
hope that the meaus to which he had referred would be
found sufficient to check the evil complained of.
Mr. GLADSTONE wished to know if the Right
Hon. Baronet could inform the House whetber he had
the power of securing a guarantee for the -payment of
expenses by the colonies?
Sir J. PAKINGTON said the continuance of the as-
sistance would be made dependent upon the payment of
the expenies.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME Old not think the force proposed to be
sent out would have the effect of preventing desertion.
At present there were between 3,000 and 4,000 handloom
weavers in Lancashire who received enly 4s. a week, and
he thought the Government ought, in order to supply the
deficiency of labour in the colony, to propose some plan
for paying the expenses out of some of them, on condi-
tion of their agreeing to work as shepherds for a period
of ayear._

Sir J FAKING TON said, in reply to the observa-
tions of the Hun. Mt tuber, that lately the colonists had
sent home sums of unusual magnitude for the promotion
of emigration from the mother country. The colony of
Victoria had transmitted betvreen 160,000!. and 170 0001,
and New South Wales 70,0001. Ho was now iu com-
munication with the Emigration Commissioners with
regard to the most bennucial mode of expending the
moupy.--(Hear, hear.)
METROPOLITAN INTERMENTS AND WATER

plying the ballot they might,. purislrsny parqetilsr
etontry they Lk.- d by lt-tryiog in that county by Immo
of the ballot the whoic number of men deficient under
the volu-Ae.rr system, abd permitting the other counties
tube ex rupr,
Mr. WALPOLE said that. by the 17th: clause credit
would br, given to csch subdivision of a cnunty fur 110,
number of men raised in it-by voluntary enlistment, and
it the ballot were enforced, such subdivisions. ao
parishes as had raised :the. full uutnbfr of.volunteers
portioned to tht-m would be wholly exempt from 0°
operatioo of the h allot., -
Mr. GOULBUIZN said that the word. efit and liable
to serve" having b-u, omitted fr. m the Sir-clause, it a"
neee,sary that they should be lift out in the claws bc-
-I:tore the Coratui tee—the purport of which- Was simPli to
letup:le the Croon to al:er the limits of the several suir
eglivisions of enuntk, but did note fix the quotas in 008
eubdivt —( fit ar.)
In' 6t
n
The words 't with reference to the number of In' 61
and liable to s, rye in the milith," were then strurk
of the clause to make it agree wi-h the onaprnedtnglil
and the clause as amended teas ordered to stand pad °

the Bill. •
0-t clause 10, providing for raising the .militia by
luntary enlistment,
Mr. WALPOLE.' said that in its present AO° tr.
clause was somewhat eat bigu ius as to where the vole.
toera were to be raised. He proposed, therefore, °lli.
Bert words providing that ti.o vt•luntci ra ahou;cl be
dent in the curty in which they were raised.
Mr. MO WATT complained that there CVT3 no reco-o'i
nixed principle or data on which any given number

men were to be raised in any.county whatever. vti.
Sir G. CLERK apprehended that the :proposed
tetion would turn out to be very inconvenient. 1; "ere
highly expedient, no doubt, that the persons who Res
es serve should be resident within that _portion ol `ro
United Kingdom in which they would be resetli"dvf
serve; but he thought that they might ba reaidents o`ds
in the county in which they were raised, or the cone"
immediately adjoieine
Mr. W. PATTEN said that the restriction tcollitio,1);
rate most injuriously upon the county of Litoetitel
where in conscpence of the high rate of wages, ',het
volunteers wsted probably be raised than in any orb
county in England.—(llear, hear.) e tht
Mr. OSBORNE—As the Bill now stood, was it not
ebois
the power of the Secretary of State to raise the
force in one county, if he ao thought fit?
Mr. WALPOLE—CIearIy not, in his opinion. Ail
Mr. CARDWELL wanted to know,e-upposiogt b`;,l
owing to the higher rate of wages in one counlYne is
should not get enough of volunteers in -it, and tiltbsi
another county from the wagers being much loWert ibse ,
got more volunteers to present themselves in. it ef
they required there, would they supply the deficiese9o
the one locality by the redundancy of the other, B,e?
to dispense with the necessity of inflicting the ball,", to
Mr. WALPOLE was prepared to make a provil'ei be
that effect. But even if the full number :should l'e,es
obtained at first—say not more than 40,000 tofe be
thought they might he sure the- ballot would no
exercised. efr
Mr. Me GIBSON said the answer of the rc,_°lfese•
cretary convinced him of the insincerity of the uen'isete
meat in the whole matter. lie contended it witsil-fieite
stitutional to come to Parliament to ask for en iesusroger.
and vague force, to meet an indefinite and vague "n"i 'be
Ministers, in dealing with the important queslOnsvi
defences of the country, should not be guictel
bof toy
considerations of the popularity or unpepularil DEO
particular measure; but they should, on -their resrose•
Wits', make the proposal which they thooghtthe e't pro.
stances of the country required, and stand by
pose], whether popular or not, provided it Was
by a sense of their duty.
Lord PALIIERS roN said the• Right Hoe.
,a the
man (Mr. Gibson) seemed not to have rtimernbeirostY
exact form of the resolutions put in theetrnsY Ittenti
estimates, and seemed to the k they were O.F" tsis
resolutions upon the Gevermsnt to raise and WO - the
certain number of men. -It was no such tbilil„„' wise,
M 1 resolutions of the army and navy estimates 00.
authority to the Gevrretnent to raise a body of
exceeding a certain rumbsr, but they foimed no et;gtir
tion to raise that number of men to expresi•ed• :foe
fore the objtetien of-the Right lion. GetiVem-al, e;epti'
indefinite number ,epplied to the arcerand D2'ilottit
mates as well as to tso present or a-ure. The aid, ,
the
•t ho Right Hon. Gentleman went to_ this—tna„ 7rot
Government were neglecting their duty if they 'l,l d rao,
enforce by ballot the raising of the Lull nuo3tnr °.` sip,
Lot that be distinctly understood, that his Big" t Bpd
Friend was the quarter whence came the atroltgelecetle
most urgeet 0411 upon the Government to bave le
Fto the baLot. ballad Mr. M. GIBSON was not in favour of the
n--os
gb
but he contended it the Ministers of thus Crown tbel
the ballot was right., and that the forcoevas wanted' r
ought not to be influenced by considerations of Per 11
rity or unpopularity in dealings with the tilestlef,l3(;esi'
was their duty to take ' upon themselves the
hility of the proposition, and incur the necessary ° iota
which attached to Ministers proposing (Ind oarrYingoot
operation the ballot. He was arguing, not tocoorse
course he himself would adopt. but es to tbeeei tosep
which Ministers, with the opinions which ;14'btS
tertainc don the matter, ought to adopt. As for ear l°
he opposed the ballot, because he believed it le'Pr-bere
`
have compulsory military service. He declinede.topte
fore, the construction which the Noble Lord Pll
his words. ht 1100;
Lard PALMERSTON observed that the Rtg"„tetili
Gentleman had not negatived his (Lord Psitne„—fegol2,
proposition. The Right Hen. Gentleman waingerA
the Uovernmenr, who were carrying the Bill the bn
stages by majorities of 100 every night, that ill oe ts•
any faith in their own views they should en,tebe the
ballot. The House would judge what wouland Org
effect of the negaire of his Right Hon. Pie" eject
the affirm-a:ice of his (Lord Palmerston's)
• Mr. B. OSBORNE iequierd if the bounty' o,,,c'ei; soti
bond fide 61., or would the soldier's knapsack, ".7' A
necesari,6 be furnished out of it, as in the sitOdestnne
Mr. COBDEN said it wl:s a totally etereceeoot,
thing in the army or navy estimates to ask lot ody
men, or any other number, and-then say their ,
content with 30,C00 or 40,000, or any other le'e
propost
her of men, and the reply of the Right foe. Gen re Ili,
the Secretary for the Home Dspartment had the
to justity the opposition that was made to opi
There was no earnestness or sincerity in" t fit
which had been propoaed. The whole thing vls_ efl:,
do lent pretence throughout. When Is restudied; ot
mameots was demanded, a loud outcry and f the,
alarm were raise d to justify the maintenance of for
firmaments, and also a demand fur are increased
It was the Neble Lord, however, the Peletobn_e,ner,
city of London who was originally to ulBl3O
this measure.- It was the bfoble_Lord in 'of Oei
instance eho had rendered the 'pessiegifien )
Bill • possible, and it was the oPP,es",:delert,
the Noelo Lord afterwards which but' Beef
oppo,i,ion to the Bill imp -sAblee-(Cheers and 10;64
It was the Whigs, and the Whigs alsne,. thato
blame for the measure, and it, was the Whigg;o:srfr
country wield hl me fur it, for the Tories of
weuld uevt r have dared to . make garb I.ol°,:rte
And let there are what it was .ttley wore infltet`t!"ll r
the ceuntry. He and those whu concurred 4'llofl/i j
had bsen laughed et when they pointed"_ out 6001 ill,
censequer.css of such a mensure. He h, in hist
t.f
an liecount taken min. the Wiltshire Indepentles„,oos
recent m.eting of tie yeomanry cavalry of th"t odA
Ikv z which havi gdo ocAr'
at >cribed the apPgrtri,
the ,„a rain their being cell officered: by the
of Bath, Loed Smerton. Mr. Sidney Herbert, '64l,e'rd'"
on to state that they had been essmitted bYs,';:tiore
Page=, Ineutenent-Colom 1 of the 4,fiLighil)7,',f
• and then proceeded to relate What followed- B *greri
exercises were over. The - concluding P°l't
stated that it vies a matter of much re' die
many of the members of this regioTe ce s,
after h lying, escaped from • the surve"'"„l3
Ulcer officers, have conducted themselves in s —jot 'le
proper, anti disreputable manner—that during of fed
three nights repeated and systematic disturWoc etl9d
kept up by them in the public placee • gres;t Vt;rl
them parading the streets of:the town, Vete" o f
111
and tea-trays—(Laughter):—ringing the h'"s unen
door, breaking the windows r red tramp lieg sart,ttell,:e
flower-beds et the houses of the peaceable lilue jelis!;s
and that their conduct had been so bad thesotrtruseetifolvoili
tents expressed thernielves by no means
exercises had clossd. The paragraph Seidel; je, (die
the matter was much regretted by the oLnee.., thsc,lff
respectable members of the. re gisnent N 0 fie es('
the conduct of a body composed of farmere' ere et-,
sons of tradesmen; but by this measure theye"tsie
to bring to the public-houses, not members 0' foe el
respectable elms, but labourers and voluntestleses
rite
vagrant classes. Wbat,•then, would be thoeoproifti4
were likely to witness on bringing such b
together? Was not that an important constrorslilliS
to the mischievous social effect of s the de"etbclo
scenes that were sure to be enacted? Let it ,-by °f'
then, that they who opposed the measure wale ctieuip'
so throwing any doubt upon the conduct of 1,, 00,0(1'
trymen. As to the compulsory claufes, as t":t be bell
merit themselves admitted that they would ni`dn Oen
ing until January next, he hoped they would ".he
was the wiser and the jester course to postpone'''. of
sure altogether to a new Parliament. Gen°e°
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Hon:iv
having asked whether it ever happeced that Ist Pr"' 0'
proposing a vote for the army accompanied t it el,
bidets by a statement that under circumstence the
happen that the Government -should. not "issehsTi°orili'
number of men voted, he -(Lord Palmerston) cue 051
ply that the feet had so occurred and mightereeeree'„-e)'
Nothing would be more likely than that a
in the beginning' of the years proposiet4 a ral-ipswil
bwioisuhldrnbeentnew
authority to raise
celteahryt,hey, thenght, under circtleoseloco
or 150 000—by a etatemeet the: if, in, the ou.ne the ywgodill.ednanccuommbpearnoyf
rneltetylr:oloof.
clot;
year, it should appear-they weeild not ruclol'id cot of
number of men, that full number cf men sh!n..ditnidt
raised; end there would be nothing eetll'upi• j/j
unperliamentary in making such aestatete%ool._Dip
speaking from rerombratic:, he thought cases hag
feend where statements precisely to that 01...1' is ft Vi td
made. The Hon. Gentlemen sae s that tbt'., rest 0,
mmeraistuorre'daetrtihtaot futphoant trnh'e'asNlu'rkei.gs As Hen rilu„;,bellres.:,,Dol
tier of that body, he (Unit Palmerston) tea: owls:00
Hon. Gentleman most cordially, for ble the
their having bad the boldcess—he sheuld 601' BO"
of dui}—ot adepticg so re quisitu a Inese!c7 to ~Pod
far from feeling it us ti mare r rePrn be (nsl
r e
enntribtred ionards oriODairef.f, that ines"36-cowpil ot'
Palmerston) felt exccourt giy proud or, the ',Pi
which the HOD. Geetlemen paid bile- t tyhf
Joel"' /I
Gentleman complained hat the House "3 ',ter.) JO
e la: se
him and his friciali —ol,,ar, hear, 01:, the 0. ,liot
was not wholly without some EXCUSE) that sotbu
so, for it was a mint singular and reaark.uu hoe
ppdJ
I cour.e—(Laughter)—those Hoe. Getilletoencospla!')ol
II sued in respect to the measure. First, tileyoujog to
I:of_the enormous tyranny the ballot dr/105-