The Sun.
London, England, 1864-02-10 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY lO, 1864.

fe r once by this country in the civil' war now raging in
China was unnecessary and impolitic. (Hear, hear.)

ELECTION PETITIONS.

Mr. HUNT gave notice that he would move for leave to
bring in a bill to emend the law relating to election peti-
tion.

FOG SIGNALS.

Mr. DAWSON asked the President of the Board of
Trade, whether, in consequence of the numerous marine
disasters that have taken place at the entrance of the Gulf
of St. Lawrence, any plans for the erection of powerful fog
signals in the vicinity of Cape Itace,Newfoundland, had yet
been approved of by the Board of Trade ; and whether any
expectation may be held out that such precautionary beacons
may be in early operation.
Mr. M. GIBSON said that the Trinity Corporation had
for some time been anxious to establish fog signals at Cape
Race, but up to the present time had failed in discovering
any invention by which sound could be conveyed from land
to vessels at a certain distance at sea that would be avail-
able.

THE RUMOURED DISSATISFACTION AT
COPENHAGEN.
In reply to Mr. PEICOCIE,
Lord PALMERSTON said he had seen a statement in
the papers that great dissatisfaction prevailed in Copen-
hagen as to the retreat of the Danish troops from Dane-
wirke ; and although the Government had no official in-
formation on the subject, there was no doubt the
inhabitants of Copenhagen felt great dissatisfaction
in regard to the event in question. " Gentlemen
at home at ease" no doubt might feel dissatis.
fled with the conduct of those who were suddenly called to
decide on an emergency. It was not for this country to
decide on the propriety of the ground which induced the
Danish general to retire from the Danewirke.
THE ALEXANDRA AND ALABAMA.
Mr. PEACOCKE asked the',Under Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs, whether the Government would lay upon
the table of the house copies of their correspondence with the
Government of the United States, and more especially that
portion of it relating to the case of the Alexandra, and the
claim by the United States Government for compensation
for the losses inflicted by the Alabama and other Con-
federate cruisers?
Mr. LAYARD said as regarded the Alexandra, as the
case of that vessel was under judicial consideration, it would
not be advisable to lay any documents relative to the same
on the table. With reference to the Alabama, papers had
already been laid on the table.
SALMON FISHERIES.
Mr. DUTTON asked the Secretary of State for the Home
Department whether it was his intention to introduce any
bill amending the Salmon Fisheries (England) Act of 1861,
and giving extended powers for the preservation of salmon
in fresh and tidal waters ?
Sir G. GREY said the subject was being investigated
by a commission.
DANISH PAPERS.
in reply to Lord R. CECIL,
Mr. LAYARD said that these papers would not be ready
for presentation to Parliament before three weeks. (Oh, oh.)
SCHLESWIG-HOLSTEIN.
Mr. D'ISRA.ELI—I wish to make an inquiry of the noble
lord the First Minister with respect to an answer which he
gave yesterday, which has occasioned some perplexity. It
was with reference to an inquiry as to whether the Court of
Berlin had notified to our Government that in consequence
of the war between Prussia and Denmark it no longer held
itself bound by the Treaty of 1852. The noble lord, as I
understood him, seemed to say that no such communica-
tion had been received by our Government from the Court
of Berlin ; but at the same time he expressed the opinion
of the Government upon such a csnrse of conduct had it
been pursued by the Prussian Government. The noble lord
said that he should look upon such. a proposition as most
unjust and monstrous. (An hon. member—" Prepos-
terous,") Preposterous—a word of nearly the same sig-
nideenco. The quasi-ion asked yesterday was not as to the
morality of that conduct, but as to its legality. Having
heard the noble lord's opinion of such possible condust, I
hnove whether he is of opinion, or whether we are to
t her Majesty's Gcvernment aro of opinion,
:hat, in consequence of the war between Prussia and Pen-
-e ark, Prussia may be relieved from the undertakings which
by the Treaty of 1852 she has entered into with this coun-
try, and with the other signatories of the treaty, or whether
those engagements on the part of Prussia are not totally
independent of any relations which may subsist between
Prussia and Denmark. (Hear, hear.) There is another
matter referring almost to the same subject, and certainly
to the answer given by the noble lord yesterday, on which I
should like to have some information. The noble lord
seemed in that answer to intimate that the German Powers
had announced that, when the invasion of the Duchies had
been completed they should be prepared to evacuate those
Duchies as soon as all the causes—the avowed causes—for
which the invasion had taken place were removed and their
ebjeet effected. What I wish to know from her Majesty's
Government, as a second inquiry, whether before the inva-
sion of the Danish Duchies took place, an event of which
given to the world, her Majesty's Govern-
m2nt obtained from the Governments of Austria and Prus-
sia any undertaking that when these Duchies had been in-
vaded and occupied, if the avowed objects of the invasion
were obtained, they would restore the Duchies to the King
of Denmark, (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALM ER,STON—I think that what I stated—at all
events, what I meant to state, yesterday was, that a notion
had been broached in Germany and in some qu irters at
Berlin that if a state of war could be established between
PLussia and Austria and Denmark, that would releasethose
two Powers from the engagement of the Treaty of 1852. I
atated my opinion upon that point, but I meant to say, or to
imply, that that was not the doctrine upon which Austria
and Prussia at present take their stand, inasmuch as they
have declared, by that paper which was read here and in the
other House of Parliament, that they acknowledge the
binding nature of the Treaty of 1852, and adhere to the
intention of maintaining the integrity of the Danish
monarchy, and therefore they cannot contend that their
hostilities with Denmark have released them from the en-
gagements of that treaty. Bat I entirely concur with
the view which I infer that the right hon. gentleman
takes that, even if that condition of things existed be-
tween Denmark and the two Powers which could be ra-
tionally called war, and which if the engagement had been
contracted simply between these two Powers and Denmark
might and would have put an end to that treaty, still the
Treaty of 1852 was not a treaty contracted simply between
Austria and Prussia, on the one hand, and Denmark on the
ether—(hear)—nut was an engagement which they entered
into, in common with the other great Powers who signed
and the Powers and States who acceded to that treaty, and
that they could not be relieved from that common engage-
ment by anything which may take place between them
separately and Denmark, That opinion I found not simply
upon the reason of the thing. '1 here is a case precisely in
point. The five Powers entered into a treaty with Turkey
by which they agreed to respect the neutrality of the Bos-
phorus and the Dardanelles, and that no ships of war of
any of the Powers should enter those straits without
the speecial permission of the Porte, and then only a
certain number at a time, The ratifications of that
treaty were exchanged with Turkey, and not among all the
Powers who signed it, just as in the case of the Treaty of
185.2 the ratifications were exchanged in London between
each of the Powers and Denmark, and the Powers did not
go through the unnecessary form of exchanging ratifications
with each other. When the British fleet entered the Dar-
danelles at the commencement of the Russian war, Austria
protested against that act as a violation of the common en-
-
en- ',meet4 which by the treaty regulating the passage of the
Dardanelles was taken by all the Powers. An answer was
given, which in our opinion was sufficient ; but that proved
that in the opinion of Austria herself a general engagement
taken by many Powers towards one was binding upon all
who took it, not simply between each and the party con-
cerned, but as with respect to the allies with whom that
engagement was taken.
THE TOWNLEY CASE.
to reply to Sir F, KELLY.
u,Sir G. GREY stated that the papers connected with this
case, including the certificates of the borough magistrates
and medical men upon which Townley had been removed
to the lunatic asylum, would be in the hands of members
before he moved the second reading of the bill which he had
introduced the previous night.
SCHLESWIG.HOLSTEIN.
Mr. ISRAELI—In continuation of the question put to
the noble lerd, I wish to ask whether what was callen a
despatch the other ntght—a document which, I believe, was
considered very ambiguous, and was treated. with derision
by the Secretary of State—is the last and only evidence the
Government possess of the intention of Austria and Prussia
to uphold the Treaty of 1852 ? I would also take the liberty
of reminding the noble lord that he has omitted to answer
my:second question.
Lord PALMERSTON—I had just discovered my wattle
tentlonal omission to answer the last question of the rig ht
hon. gentleman, and was about to do so. The despatch
alluded to is certainly the last official communication re-
ceived by the Government • but I consider that it is com-
plete in regard to the
og renition of the Treaty of 1852 and
thWeeo ritai
certainlynt eu a tiTa f the integrity of the Danish Monarchy.
ve no
guarantee on the part of Austria
and Prussia that theywill
evacuate Schleswig when the
Constitution is revolved but we have the assurance in our
own minds that they aro' two Powers which must think their
character for good faith of
some value. The ground, and
the only ground, au which I
as
they have entered
aiehluswig and occupied it, a material guarantee, was to
tituAtion. of November, as
obtain. t revocation of pleao
And, therefore, I think,
far as it •
relates to Swig
when that demand has been with,
they will dad,
that they are bound by honour and
that occupation which they undertook simplytirl to
give up
.or the pur-
pose of obtaining that revocation.
ASH-WEDNESDAY.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
Lord PALMERSTON, again tieing, said—lt is usual for
this house on'Ash-Wedresday to meet at two o'clock, in-
stead of at the usual time. I understand, however, that
there is really no business for to-morrow, the hon,
and
gallant member far the °aeon's County having postponed,
or consented to postpone, the motion of which hn had given
notice. It will, therefore, I think, be more convenient that

Nish to

coteluck,

the house, instead of meeting at two o'clock to-morrow,
should adjourn till Thursday. (Hear, hear.)
SCHLE S WIG-HOLSTEIN.
Mr. S. FITZGERALD—I cannot avoid tar g the op-
portunity which this motion gives me to address a few
words to the house upon the extraordin try answer which
was given with reference to the Danish papers by the hon.
gentleman the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs. That

is a question upon which the heart of this country is set,
which agitates nearly every portion of the Continent, and
upon which this house and the country are agreed in de-
manding the most complete information, not only as to the
facts that are passing, but as to the conduct pursued from
day to day by her ;Majesty's Government, and the course
they have pursued for weeks past. (Hear.) The hon.
gentleman being asked when we may expect information
on these points quietly tells the house that no papers at all
can be given before a period of three weeks. ZCheers.)
Three weeks I why, what may have happened in three
weeks ? In the spaceof three days we have seen the Duchy
of Schleswig overrun, we have seen a gallant people beaten
down by an overpowering force. (Loud cheers.) And yet
on such a question as this the Government tell the House

of Commons that they are to remain contentedly in the dark
for a period of three weeks I Now, I beg to point out to
the house that as regards Japan papers were promised in
her Majesty's Speech ; but respecting Denmark complete

silence was observed, and no information was promised to
the House of Commons. And as to the diffiectity of pub-

- -
0
Eishinm these papers the noble lord at the head of the Foreign

Office when he chooses to do so is at no loss for means of

giving information to the public about his policy and the
course which he is going to take. We know very well that
in the course of the autumn the noble lord, before the ink of
a particular despatch was dry, hurried it off to the Lenion
Gazette, and in the columns of the Gazette it was published
even before it reached the Power to whom that despatch was
addressed, (Cheers.) I think the house will conceive from
the answer of the hon. gentleman and from the course taken
by her Majesty's Government on this subject that they fear
discussion. (Hear, hear.) They know very well, with the
feeling which always prevails in this house, that there will
be no discussion until the house has had ample means of
forming an opinion; and they hope by delay to tide over
the critical time, and to avoid a discussion of their policy,
and of the course they have pursued. I therefore appeal to
the noble lord at the head of the Government to rectify what
I may almost call the tortuous policy of the Foreign-office,
and to give, at the earliest moment, the most complete and
most ample information to the House of Commons. (Cheers.)
Mr. LAYARD—I think the hon. gentleman has wasted
a good deal of virtuous indignation. (Cries of No, no.)
There is no desire on the part of the Government either to
avoid discussion or to waste time in this matter. The hon.
gentleman has filled the office which I have the honour to
fill at present, and ought to be aware that there is great diffi-
culty in publishing a complete set of papers upon transac-
tions of this kind. In the first place, the hon, gentleman
knows we cannot lay on the table of the house documents
communicated by foreign Powers without first consulting
them as to whether or not they wish them to be published.
That is a matter of courtesy, and it is a rule which is always
followed, I can only say that I saw the printer to-day,
and also communicated with the clerks at the Foreign-
office. The other night I stated that I hoped these papers
would be speedily produced, and I then hoped that they
would be produced next week, but they are so voluminous
that I am assured this is impossible if we wish to present the
papers in a perfect form, I hive no doubt if the house desires
to have them in instalments rortions can be furnished, but

I doubt whether the house will thus obtain the exact infor.

mation which it desires. I can assure the house that every
possible speed shall be used in expediting the production of
the papers. They shall be laid on the table at the very
earliest moment—l cannot give any other answer. But I
assure the house there i 3 no intention on the part of the Go-
vernment to retard even by one day the publication of the
docunients.

Mr: DISRAELI—I think v.e have not yet received a
satisfactory answer on the part of the Government. The
affeirs of Germany and Dererna,k were of se grave a chars-
ter some time ago that it might have been a question for
the Government whether they should not have advised the
Sovereign to assemble Parliament at an earlier period.
(Cheers.) That was the feeling of men of very different
political opinions. But there are, I know, very grave reasons
which might operate to restrain the Government from giving
that advice, except under most urgent circumstances, How-
ever, if Parliament were not summoned earlier than usual,
I think her Majesty's Government were bound the moment
it assembled--(cheers) --to place in our hands the documents
necessary to form an opinion on this all engrossing and all
important subject,—a subject upon which the question of
peace or war, or even of a general war, may ultimately have
to be decided, and with regard to which at this moment we
are completely in the dark. The technical answer cf the
Under-Secretary is most unsatisfactory. He tolls us he went
to the pr inter to-day. Well, but the Under-Secretary ought
to have gone to the printer long before; he ought to have
gone every day and, if necessary, every hour before Parlia-
ment met to the printer for these papers. (Cheers and
laughter.) He ought to have insisted on these papers
being ready to present to Parliament the first night, I took
occasion on the opening day to notice the strange omission
from the Royal Speech of any promise that papers on the
subject of Germany and Denmark would be produced.
What was the answer of the noble lord ? He said his ob-
ject was that the Speech should nog be too long. (A. laugh.)
Yet he found space to insert in that Speech a promise that
the papers respecting Japan—no doubt, an interesting and
important subject, but coati sated with the European ques-
tion of Germany and Denmark, a matter of comparatively
trifling importance—should be forthcoming. There was
room for that in the Speech. But when I pressed the noble
lord for these papers, he treated the matter with derision,
and said, " You shall have papers; you shall have plenty
of them, and I hope hon. members will study them. I have
read a good many of them (said the noble lord) and I have
got a surfeit of them," It was clear to me at that time that
her Majesty's Government had no settled determination to
present these papers to Parliament—(cheers)--and, coup-
ling the tone of his address with the omission of any pro-
mise of the documents in the Royal Speech, I must say
the non-production of papers on such an important subject
was a great inadvertence, and one which I think it would
be difficult to vindicate. Practically, I take it for granted
that the mass of these papers, either in manuscript or
in proof sheets, are now prepared, and that permis-
sion to print them has been obtained from all the
foreign Powers. That is a mere mechanical affair. The
printer of the Foreign-office was rubbed up to-day for the
first time, and, frightened at the mass of documents before
him, no doubt made the same sort of calculation which he
would have done if an ordinary thick pamphlet on the
Schleswig-Holstein question—and we have seen many of
them—were brought to him. He said they would require
three weeks to print. But if you have all the materials
ready, and the credit of the Foreign-office be at stake, you
must endeavour to compensate for former /riches by dis-
triboting these documents into the hands of several
printers—(hear, hear)—and I will be bound to say, with
proper diligence, that you ought to produce these papers
to Parliament in eight and forty hours. The house ought
to insist on these papers being placed in their hands in 48
hours, or otherwise to relinquish the fulfilment of their
highest duty. (Hear, hear,)
Lord PALMERSTON said—Sir, I think that the right
hon. gentleman is taking a leaf out of the book of the Prus-
sian and Austrian Governments, who called on Denmark to
revoke a constitution in 48 hours, when that could only be
constitutionally accomplished by the instrumentality of a
parliament not then assembled. (Laughter.) I can assure
the right hon gentleman—he can believe me or not as he
likes—(a laugh)—l took it so much as a matter of course
that papers on so important a matter as Denmark and Ger-
many must necessarily be presented to Parliament, that it
was totally unnecessary to mention them in the speech--if
it was an omission I am sorry for it. So far as its arising
from any doubt whether the papers should or should not be
presented, I might as well have doubted my own existence
as the obligation of the Government to lay them before Par-
liament, There was no doubt about it. The hon. gentle-
man is perhaps not quite so well aware as the hon. member
for Horsham of the labour of preparing an accurate print of
a ♦ast mass of documents; it is not only the printing of
them, hut they must be looked over after by a competent
person to see that there are no mistakes of the press and
that all has been accurately done. The Under Secretary
stated to the house that if it is desired these documents may
be produced in parts, and perhaps this might be the most
convenient manner ; and if hon. members. desire they may
hare Part I. and then Part ll.—(a laugh)—before they
come to the matter they intend to discuss; but no delay
shall take place in laying before the house the whole of the
papers.
Lord J, MANNERS said—l can quite believe the noble
lord that there will be no unnecessary delay for the
future in the course of delivery of these papers; but,
certainly, a great and unnecessary delay had occurred in
the presentation of the papers up to the present time. It
was impossible to listen to what fell on a former occasion
and not see that however necessary it may be for the
noble lord opposite to lay these papers on the table at
the same time there was not that energy to lay these papers
before the house that was to be expected in a matter of such
vital importance. (Hear, hear.) No doubt these papers
have been kept back in the Foreign Office, and have not
been brought forward in the state of preparation they should
have been. (Hear, hear.) I presume now we shall have these
papers brought before us in a much leas time than that in
which they were promised ten minutes ago, and I hope we
shall not be disappointed. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HENNESSY said he asked the Government two
nights ago whether the papers promised as to Poland would
contain the despatch from Earl Russell to Prince Gortecha-
koff, to which great importance was attached just now at
Berlin and Vienna for its bearing on the Danish question.
It was sent in the autumn, recalled by telegraph, altered,
and re-sent, When that despatch arrived it was understood
that Count Rechberg and M. Bismark called attention to
the declaration made by Earl Russell in his speech at Blair-
gowrie, to the effect that the dominion of Russia over Po-
land was forfeited by reason of the non-compliance of Rus-
sia with the treaty of Vienna; and the German Powersnow
state that that principle would in some degree apply to the
case, of Denmark. They say that the treaty of London had
not been fulfilled by Denmark, and therefore the treat) of
London was void. Now it was very important to get that
despatch. He wished to ask whether the Government would

produce that original despatch sent from the Foreign Office
with the sanction of the Queen, signed by the Secretary of
State, but which was afterwards withdrawn and altered,
Sir H. CAIRNS said—l wish also to ask a question
relative to papers we had printed this morning, some
papers on American affairs containing despatches, some

from the other aide of the water, some from the American

Minister here. But there has been one despatch of very
great importance and of a peculiar character which has
been printed in America, and reprinted in the ordinary
channels of information in this country. It was dated, I

think, 11th July last year. If I understand, this despatch,
coming flora the American Minister of Foreign Affairs,
was to be read to Earl nussell and a copy of it left with
him, ancl it is evidently far more material than any yet laid
an the table. I wish to ask her Maiesty's Government
whether they are prepared to communicate that despatch to

the House of Commons, and at the same time the answer
that was returned either to Lord Lyons or sent directly,

or whether they are prepared to state that no answer was
sent. (Cheers.)
Mr. LAYARD—When that despatch is communi-

cated to her Majesty's Government it w►ll be published.
It was never presented to her Majesty's Government, and

her Majesty's Government have no knowledge of any such
despatch. I do not quite understand to what despatch the

other hon. gentleman alludes to in reference to Poland. If
there is such a despatch—and I think there is not—if ho
will communicate with me privately on the subject it shall
be produced.
Lord R. CECIL—Do I understand the secretary to

say that no despatch from Mr. Adams to the Foreign-office,
conveying the demands which Mr. Seward made, has been
forwarded to the Foreign-office, and if thereis no despatch,
is there any memorandum of any verbal application con-
veying the same insolent demands ?
Mr. LAYAR')-1 have stated that although that de-
spatch appeared in the newspapers, we hays no knowledge
of it; it was never communicated, and we cannot pro-

duce it.
Lord R. CECIL—And was there no verbal demand
➢ir. LAYARD—No verbal communication in that sense
was ever held;

The motion for adjournment was ultimately agreed to,
KAGOSIMA.

Mr. BUXTON moved the following resolution : —" That
this house, while only imputing to Admiral Kuper a
misconception of the duty imposed on him, deeply
regrets the burning of the town of Kagosima,
as being contrary to those usages of war which
prevail among civilised nations, and to which it
is the duty and policy of this country to adhere."
In the course of a long address ho cited several authorities
on international law to show that the bombardment of
Kagosima was directly opposed to the dictum of the most
celebrated writers on maritime law.
Mr. AYTOUN, in seconding the motion, condemned the
arroganne of the English merchants and residents in Japan
as having been the real cause of enmity felt towards us by
the natives,

Mr. LONGFIELD proposed, as an amendment, to omit
from Mr. Buxton's resolution the words " while cnly im-

puting to Admiral Kuper a misconception of the duty im-
posed on him." His object was to free a gallant and meri-
torious officer from the grave imputation that was sought to
be cast upon him by the terms of the resolution. He con-
tended that Admiral Kuper had done no more than execute

the commands with which he was entrusted, and there had
been no cold-blooded cruelty, misconception of orders, or
terrible mistake on his part. He understood his instructions
well. He obeyed the orders that were given him, The
measures he concerted were within both the letter and the
spirit of his instructions ; and what he conceived prudently
he had executed bravely. The orders given to him by
Colonel Neale, her Majesty's representativo in Japan, in
accordance with instructions received from the Foreign-
office, included the burning of the town of Kagosima and the
palace of Prince Satsuma, which he performed with the
knowledge and in. the presence of Colonel Nealo himself,
who, having given the orders, knew the consequences, and
expressed his satisfaction at the result. The resolution of
Mr. Buxton was nothing else than an attempt to offer up
Admiral Kuper as a scapegoat to save the Government
from the censure of the house.

Sir J. HAY sec)nded the amendment, and said that the
imputation thrown upon Admiral Kuper did no credit either
to the Government or those persons who had thus assailed
a brave and worthy ;non, The duty ho had executed was
imposed upon him by the barbarous orders of the Foreign
Office, and the attack on Kagosima, following upon the
affair in Siam last year, was hut the culminating point of
the policy which the Government had of late adopted in the
East.

Lord STANLEY—I quite understand the reluctance o
my hon. and gallant friend to pass any censure on persons
who, whether in a civil or military capacity, are perform.
ing a very responsible duty at a great distance from home,
and labouring under disadvantages in respect to receiving
instructions. I share in that feeling, and I shall be glad if
I hear from the hon, gentleman the member for Southwark
(Mr. Layard) a better defence for these proceedings than
appears in the papers which have been laid before us. Ido
not intend to go again over the ground covered by the
speech of the hon. member for Maidstone ; but I will call
the attention of the house to one or two points, and I will
do so in order that an answer may be given by the Under-
Secretary. Id 3 not understand what justification can be
alleged for the double claim m ids by her Majesty's Go-
vernment—first, the claim made on the Tycoon ; and next,
that made on the Prince of Satsuma. I could understand
either if the other were not put forward. (Hear, hear). I
could understand your treating the Prince as entirely inde-
pendent, and then your course might be obvious, Yuu
might have applied to the Tycoon in the first instance, and
if he replied, " I cannot punish the Prince of Satsuma,"
you might have said, " Then we give you fair notice that
we shall take the affair out of your hands and punish
him ourselves." But if the Prince of Satsuma is re-
sponsible for the murder, then this demand of £lOO,OOO
from the Tycoon, who is not responsible, who did not
order the murder, and could not have prevented it, is
simply unjustifiable. (Hear, hear.) On the other hand,
if the Prince of Satsuma is to be treated as a subject, no
doubt we have a right to come on the Government of Japan
for compensation; but then wo ought to leave it to the
Government to eettle matters with the Daimio. (Hear,
hear.) But the responsibility of the one, from the nature
of the me, seems to exclude the responsibility of the other,
and therefore those who have conducted the negotiations
on the part of this country have put us in the wrong. It
also appears to me that the amount of the demand is altoge-
ther exorbitant and excessive. No doubt it is very painful
and difficult to have to value human life; but one can only
judge of what would be done if such a case occurred in
Europe, If the murder of a British subject took place un-
der anything like similar circumstances in a European
country, you would insist on the punishment of the offen-
der, and demand compensation ; but it appears to me that
you would not do anything analogous to what you have
done in this case by demanding £lOO,OOO from the Tycoon,
who was net responsible for the murder, and making a
further demand of L 25,000 of the Prince of Satsuma, whom
you hold to have been responsible. (Hear.) There is ano-
ther point to which I think the house ought to look. The
hon. member for Maidstone spoke of the inhumanity of
those proceedings. I look at the matter in another way,
and say that their irnpolicy is greater than their inhu-
manity. (Hear.) You know the Tycoon is in great dn.
culty between the Daimios and the foreign merchants and
diplomatists. You have, then, to deal witia a Government
which may be taken to be neutral between the two ; you
have the great chiefs, who undoubtedly are hostile to
foreigners; and, lastly, you have the people, of whom we
we do not know whether or not they share the preju-
dice of the chiefs against foreigners, but who, at all
events, have nothing to lose by the country being open
to foreigners, and may have a great deal to gain. I think
it clear, then, that your policy ought to be to lessen the in-
fluence of the Daimios on the people, and to conciliate the
latter. (Hear, hear.) lam afraid your proceedings in
reference to this murder will have a contrary effect. All
they will know about the affair is that the foreigners have
had a quarrel with the chiefs and de 4royed a town. That
will place the Daimios in the position of being the natural
protectors of the people, whereas your object ought to be to
separate those two classes, and to show the natives that
though you may take a part against the chiefs, you do so in
the interest of the people, (Hear, hear.) lam afraid it
will be a long time before the impression created in the
minds of the people by those proceedings will be obliterated.
I also think it is very questionable whether what you have
done will have very much effect on the chiefs. I do not
say anything as to the destruction of batteries, because as
you treated the Prince of Satsuma as an independent per-
son no objection could be taken to your destroying his forts ;
but when your doing that involved the destruction of a
town, it is another matter. I do not expect that much moral
effect will be produced on the Daimios by such an opera-
tion as that. It reminds me of the story of an Irish ab•
sentee landlord whose agent sent him over a threatening
letter which he had received. The landlord, in reply, said
"Tell those fellows they are great fools if they think that
by shooting you they will intimidate me." (Much laughter.)
I very much fear that the same is the case with the Daimios.
They are not likely to be intimidated by punishments which
fall on the people. (Hear, hear.) You will not frighten the
class on whom you wish to make an effect, but you will
make enemies of the class whom you want to have your
friends. (Hear, hear.) In these sure papers I see a trans-
action, of the same date, which bears on this case. It seems
that in October of last year there was a good deal of anxiety
felt among the traders because the trade in silk was falling
off. What was the reason of this falling off ? Col. Neat°,
writing to the Japanese Minister, says :
" The matter respecting the restricted arrivals of silk being
now well known to be caused by no accident or want of the
material, but by a systematic arrangement of a few of the
principal silk dealers, or monopolisers, at Yeddo ; great un-
easiness and alarm prevail among the mercantile community
of Yokohama."
Upon that assumption, because those dealers in silk at
Yeddo are doing that which dealers in Manchester End
Liverpool sometimes do—lr cause they are Voiding. back
produce for bidh prices—(hear, hear)—our representative
writes a very peremptory letter, and the Japanese Govern-
ment is called upon to explain. (Hear, hear.) That is not
the way you would act towards any European Government.
That letter throws light upon whatever may be doubtful in
ether transactions, and shows what 'our feelings and bear-

in; have been in dealing with the Government of Japan.
(Cheers.)
Admiral WALCOTT supported the amendment, and ex•
pressed as opinion that the papers on the subject justified
him in declaring that no blame could be imputed to Admi-

ral Kuper.
Lord L. MONTAGU' argued that the Government had
no course before them but to enforce the demand for redrese

for the murders and acts of violence committed by the

Japanese on British subjects.
Sir F. CROSSLEY lamented the groat loss of life that
had ensued from the bombardment of Kagosima, and con-
demned the adoption of such a high-handed policy in our
communications with Eastern nations. The time had
arrived when it behoved the Foreign. office to endeavour to
uphold the honour of the country, without resorting to these
wholesale sacrifices of human. life.
Mr. LIDDELL deprecated the system of hastily con-

eluding treaties, under the guns of our ships, with tations

of whose habits, customs, and laws we had no knowledge.
How we could expect a treaty to be faithfully observed which

had been obtained under such circumstance; passed his com-

prehension. Our proceedings in Japan had been marked
by a violence that was deeply to be deplored, and he held
that the treaty mado with that country ought to be revised,
if possible, in conjunction with those who were acquainted
with the laws and customs of Japan.
Mr. KINGL AKE reminded the house that when the
official account of the bombardment of Kagosima reached

England, Earl Russell at once wrote a dispatch to Colonel
Neale, expressive of the regret he felt at the destruction of
that town. He did not believe that the noble earl had given

an imperative order to destroy the residence of the Prince
of Satsuma, whether it were situated on a bare hill or in
a populous city ; but he hesitated not to say that our treaties
had broken up the political system of the state in Japan.
In the present state of their information with regard to the
details of the late engagement at Kagosima, he thought it

would be unjust to throw any blame or seeming blame upon

Admiral Kuper.

Mr. LIY.A.RD said no one who had attended to his hon.
friend the member for Maidstone would be surprised that

he considered it his duty to submit to the house the question
which he that evening brought before them. (Hear.) His

hon. friend's well.known sympathy with the human race
every one who knew him would agree in acknowledging,
and all would be ready to do him justice in feeling that he
he was right in bring tha question before the House of Com-
mons. (Hear, hear.) If he could not agree in all that his
hon, friend had said, it was not that he could not agree in
the principles which he had laid down, but in the manner in
which he had tried to establish his facts. He entirely
agreed with his hon. friend that it was most deplorable and
deeply to be regretted that a town should be bombarded and
laid in ruins, as Kagosima was reported to have been.
(Hear, Lear.) He agreed with him, that nothing but the
greatest, the most extreme provocation could justify such a
course ; and he entirely agreed with him that it was a ter-
rible sight to witness the condition to which the inhabi-
tants were reduced, and upon those matters there was no
difference of feeling and opinion between himself and his
hen. friend, who, he was sure, would not charge him with
want of sympathy with Eastern nations. He (Mr. Layard)
was kncwn to have expressed his regret on several occa-
sions at the manner in which those races had been treated.

Now, such being the general principles laid down, let him
see whether they applied to the present instance. But be-
fore he did so he must say he could not concur in the blame
cast upon so gallant and meritorious an officer as Admiral
Kuper. (Hear, hear.) And hero he must say that it had
been tee) much the habit of some parties in this country to
blame officers in their absence for alleged transactions before
inquiry had taken place to ascertain whether the charges
were correct (Hear, hear.) He must say that he did not
think Admiral Kuper could be charged with shedding
blood wantonly; and he must further say of that gallant
officer that a more humane man could not be than he had
always shown himself to be. (Hear, hear.) The hen.
member hem proceeded to draw a sketch of the relations of
this county/ with Japan previous to the occurrence in ques-
tion. This country was not the first, ho said, to enter into
a treaty with Japan. An American commodore was the
first, and having made the American treaty, Russia then
stepped in and made a treaty with the Japanese on ber own
accaunt. \vas it, then, matter of surprisee—seeing that Ame-
rica and 3.ussia, two great commercial nation's, had made
treaties to advance their commercial interests, and thus
opened up new markets for themselves—that England, on
her part, tdlowed the example, and with a view of availing
herself of the new markets, made a treaty:of commerce with
the Japanese. (Hear, hear.) They were condemned for, and
charged with, having forced a treaty upon the Japanese,
which the authorities of Japan, it was said, had no power to
make. They understood the Tycoon to be the head autho-
rity of Japan at the time, and they entered into the treaty
with him. They as: ertained that there-were three parties
in Japan at the time, and that a great part of the natives were
ill-treated and kept in a state of slavery by the Daimios. Of
the three parties one of them, he understood, was known by
the name of " Toree"—(laughter)—and that party were
most hostile in their acts and feelings against foreigners,
particularly against the English. Another of those parties
was called "Liberal Torees"—(laughter)—and the third
were known as the party who were for keeping to themselves
all the good places, and sticking to them. (Great laughter.)
There was also a party aho were for the maintenance of
the " connexion between Church and State." (Laughter.)
Much outrage and injustice had been committed against
torcignera, particularly those from England, and the re-
monstrances of the Government against thoseoutrageous ex-
cesses were not attended to. It had been said that the Bri-
tish Government was unfriendly to and did not like the
Japanese. Now, so far from that being the case, they had
in tois country made great concessions to the Japanese, and
not only did they do so themselves, but they actually in-
duced other Powers to make concessions to them, (Hear,
hear.) He could assure the house that in Mr. Richardson's
case neither be nor his friends were in fault. He (Mr.
LaTard) was not in the habit of defending the excesses of
his countrymen; and he was sorry to say that they were
often guilty of excesses that no man ought to defend. (Hear,
hear.) In Mr. Iti hardson's case that was not so. A most
unprovoked murder bad been committed on that gentleman
and other members of his party by a number of men who
had been set on to commit it by their leaders. Mr. Richard-
son and his party wore proceeding quietly along a high road
that was open to them by treaty, and were most wantonly
ant without any provocation whatever attacked. Murder
was committed, and the party, when remonstrated with,
tried to excuse themselves by saying that it was a " casual',
murder. He had never before heard of a casual murder.
A more deliberate murder, he repeated, never was com-
mitted. Tho English Government remonstrated, and de-
manded satisfaction, but their remonstrances were disre-
warded, and their demand was treated with contempt. Was
it then to bo a matter of surprise that they insisted upon
proper redress being given by the Japanese Government for
such an outrage ? (Hear,) The Government made demands
upon the Tycoon Government and also upon Satsuma. In
the first place they demanded £100,009 from the Japanese
Government—not for the murder, but for allowing the mur-
der on a road which was open by treaty, on a road on which
it was their bounden duty to protect life. (Hear.) That was
entirely irrespective of the murder. Then they had de-
manded from the person who committed the murder what
they considered to be a fair sum to be divided amongst those
who were sufferers. That auto was £20,000. Some might
think that sum too much, others might consider it too little.
Mr. Richardson, who was murdered, was a wealthy mer-
chant, and his death was a serious blow to his family. Ile
did not, therefore, consider that the sum was an unreason-
able one. The other persons concerned were merchants in a
good position in life, and for them the sum demanded he
could not consider was too much. Besides that, her Ma-
jesty's Govet nment asked for the execution of those who had
been concerned in the affair. Now, it had been stated that
evening as a matter of tact, that her Majesty's Government
had asked for the execution of Satsuma's father. So far
from that being the case, they had stated over and over
again that nothing of the sort was done. In the first place,
they did not know that it was Satsuma's father who had
committed the murder. Their first impression was that it
was his uncle. (Laughter.) They asked for the trial and
punishment of the retainers of the chief who had committed
the act. If hon. gentlemen would refer to page 94 of the
Blue-book they would find that the Government demanded
the speedy arrest and bringing to capital punishment the men
among the Prince's retinue, and not the Prince himself.
Satsuma had stated that no order had been given for this
attack. If no order had been given them surely the Govern-
ment had a right to ask for the punishment of those who
had committed so grave an offence without an order, and
that was all they did ask for. (Hear, hear.) He thought it
would be admitted that those demands, under the circum-
stances, were perfectly just; but if they had accepted the
excuse of the Tycoon, that Satsuma was beyond his power,
and that he had no control over his retainers, the Daimios,
under the shelter of that excuse, would have committed all
sorts of outrages. If, on the other hand, they had exacted
the punishment of the Daimios alone, in all future cases the
Tycoon would have said that the crimes had been perpe-
trated by the Daimios, and that they alone were responsible.
So that the Government had no alternative but to make a
double demand, and he thought that was the right course
to pursue. Was the English Government alone amongst
those who lasd punished the Deimios for outrages against
foreigners? If hon. gentlemen would turn to the Blue-
book they 1, ould find that joint representations had been
made by the English, French, Dutch, and American Mi-
nisters, that they held a Prince who had fired upon a ship
responsible for that act, and would proceed to punish it if
the injury were not redressed, They did punish him by
destroying his batteries and forts. Now, Admiral Kuper,
on receiving his instructions, proceeded to early them out,
It had been stated that the instructions of her Majesty's
Government were not sufficiently explicit, and that it was on
at hnadt
taheactorcionnt
setq
instruheatisolligs
shtweset knowledge
of the palace in which Satsuma
her Majesty's Government had not the huaetn ttli; the
theadmiral
dwelt, or of its position.
They had heard that he had a
rn s p o
n s ib:ii t y committed
meatth e f
aract
enephnoetnodtuihdte :
Government. Now, when the
his own, and that
was a powerful Prince, having vessels of
them' The
Government flf-ek could get to those vessels and carry off.
Government gave Ins
palace near the shore, that he
• tructions to the admiral founded upon
this imperfect knowledge. Eearl Russell, ,n his instructions,
stated that he had heard that Satsurmee territory was a
peninsula, but that the admiral would be able to term a bet-
ter judgment whether it would be possible to take his port,

The Government did not even know that there was a large

- _
town there. (Laughter.) lie was at a loss to understand
why hon. gentlemen laughed. He repeated that in England
there was no knowledge of that towns The fleet arrived
there on the 11th, and cast anchor at the entrance of the
port. Next day they went further and anchored before the
town. What was the first thing the Japanese did ? They
invited Admiral Kuper and Colonel Neale to go on shore to
conduct negotiations with them: Many gentlemen who had
great confidence in the Japanese might think that they
ought to have done so ; but Admiral Kuper and Colonel
Neale thought they had better not run any risk of being led
into a trap, and very wisely declined the invitation. (Hear.)
On the following day a person calling himself a chief, with
his retainers, approached Admiral Kuper's ship and asked
to be allowed to come on board. There could not be a moral
doubt that these persons, having little knowledge of the ar-
rangements of an English man-of -war, thought they could
capture the ship by a coup de:main, and when the Japanese
official found that he was outwitted he became speechless,
and went off with great rapidity. No doubt these were two
attempts to entrap the British officers; the first to entrap
the officers on shore, and the second to capture the ship.

All this time the batteries were being manned. Colonel
Neale, finding that it was no use to withhold any longer
ordered Admiral Kuper to take possession of the ships

belonging to Satsuma, and the Admiral did every-
thing he could to carry out his instructions with the least
possible harshness. A statement had appeared in some of
the papers which he regretted to find the hon, member for
Birmingham (Mr. Bright) had endorsed, that after captur-
ing the ships Admiral Kuper needlessly kept them for a
long time under the eyes of the Japanese. The truth was,
that the admiral could not have taken the vessels out of the
bay without passing under the fire of the batteries. So far
from the admiral having kept the vessels under the eyes of
the Japanese in order to draw down their fire, he took them
as far as possible to the opposite side of the bay. No sooner
were the vessels taken than the Japanese opened fire. He

did not deny that the Japanese had a perfect right to do so,
but what he did deny was, that it was the duty of the British
admiral to allow himself to be fired upon without returning
it. If he had done so, what would have been the result ?
There would hava been a cry throughout the whole of Japan
that our fleet had been defeated, our settlements would have
been plundered, and probably every foreigner in the coun-
try would have been murdered. (Hear.) It was, then, the
clear duty of the admiral to return the fire. The hon. mem.
ber for Wakefield had stated that it would have been impos-
sible for Admiral Kuper to have returned the fire without

burning the town, and upon the high authority of that gal-
lant gentleman he was content to rest the admiral's excul-
pation. It had been said that shells had been thrown in the
town, but nothing was saidabout such a circum3tance in the
reports, nor was anything said about bombardment, with the
exception of the second day,when shells were thrown intothe
palace of Satsuma. On the first day no shell was thrown
into the town ; on the contrary, the return of the fire from
the batteries led to the firing of the town. Let hon. mem-

bars consider what a Japanese town really was. It was
built simply of thin laths and paper—very little timber
indeed. Fires were constantly occurring in these towns,
The people constantly lived in fear of life, and were always
ready to move, He had spoken with several officers on the
subject, being anxious to ascertain the truth on the point,
and he found thatfires in Japanese towns'were the commonest
possible occurrences. The officials had four days' notice of
the operations against I hem, and during that time they were
preparing to attack the British fleet. If, therefore, the
people suffered injury, it was the duty of the officials to
warn them to remove, and ho had every reason to believe
they did so. It was possible that there was loss of life there.
If so, no one more sincerely deplored it than himself ;
but, at the same time, it would be some consolation to think
that the loss of life was very small indeed amongst the
peaceable inhabitants. (Hear, hear) He (Mr. Layard)
had resided some time in a town which was peculiarly liable
to fires ; he meant Constantinople. In that town there was
a fire almost every month, consuming as many residences as
at Kagosima, although the area over which they extended
was not so great, as the houses were higher. In Constan-
tinople a fire raged with extraordinary rapidity, destroying
many houses in the course of a few hours, and yet he never
heard of a single loss of life by fire there. The people lived
in constant readiness to mow, sad loss of live from fire was
consequently hardly known. These considerations led him
to hope that few lives of innocent persons were lost at
Kagosima. No doubt there was a considerable loss of life
amongst the retainers of the Daimio. They fought against
the British fleet, they manned their batteries, and they
consequently ran all the risks which men engaged in war
were bound to run, but of the quiet peaceable inhabitants
he very much doubted whether any, or a very few, at all
events, met their death. On the second day it was neces-
sary, according to the admiral's view, to destroy the palace
of Satsuma. Could he, after the destruction of the pro-
perty of the poor, leave the palace of the chief malefactor
untouched? He (Mr. Layard) thought not, and the admire:
very properly threw shells into the palace. There was no
proof that shells went into the town. It might be assumed
that they did, but there was not the slightest evidence of
the fact. The hon. gentleman the member for Maidstone
(Mr. Buxton), in the early part of his speech, said that he
would call evidence in supine of his views, and he (Mr.
Layard) thought that he would have called witnesses of
some standing. The first was a picture in the Illustrated
News. Now, he did not wish to say anything against that
admirable paper. Those who were in the secret would en-
tertain doubts whether that paper had on board the Euryalus
a correspondent who witnessed the town of Kagosima in
flames. Then another portion of evidence on which he
relied was a statement which had appeared in the Aylesbury
papers. Now, he had a great respect for the Aylesbury
pacers, but he could not take evidence second-hand from
their columns, the hon, gentleman himself not having seen
the paper from which his information was derived.
Mr. BUXTON—It was the statement of a sailor who was
an eye-witness of what he described.
Mr. LAYARD—WeII, he should like to know the sailor's
name, or what authority there was for the statement. In
the absence of that information he preferred to take the
statement of a British Admiral. (Hear, hear.) What he
had now stated was a short history of what took place at
Kagosima. The house would now perhaps allow him for a
few moments to call attention to the motion of his hon.
friend. As regarded Admiral Kuper's judgment there was
no wish on the part of the Government to cast blame upon
him. On the contrary, it was the duty of the Govern-
ment to support him, because he was entitled to support.
It was asked why the Government had not given him the
same honorary distinctions which they had conferred upon
Colonel Neale. The distinctions given to Colonel Neale
were not on account of what took place at Kagosima, but
for the judgment and tact which he had displayed in
conducting most difficult negotiations. Why they were not
conferred upon Admiral Kuper was because there had been
for a time a strong feeling in the country. (Hear, bear,
from the Opposition benches.) Her Majesty's Government
thought it only reasonable Admiral Kuper shouldbe enabled
to give explanations, and he had no doubt some explana-
tions would be perfectly satisfactory. It would be unwise
and ungenerous to pass such a resolution as this, which
would be tantamount to a vote of censure, before those ex-
planations could be received. He had no doubt about the
explanations, and that it would be shown that Admiral
Kuper would not have burnt down the town if he could have
avoided it. Then it had been insinuated that her Majesty's
Government had felt no regret at this occurrence. The first
think they did on hearing the news was to write a despatch
in which they expressed their regret. That regret had been
embodied in the Queen's Speech, had been re-echoed by the
house, and deeply felt throughout the country. Not only
had they expressed regret, but her Majesty's Government
had done everything they could to prevent a recurrence of
ouch disasters. (The hon. gentleman read extracts from
the despatches in proof of the assertion.) Not only had her
Majesty's Government and the house expressed their regret
for what had occurred, but every precaution had been taken
to prevent such a calamity in future. The resolution said
that what had been done was " contrary to those usages of
war which prevail among civilised nations." He would ven-
ture to say that this was not so. It was not contrary to
the usages of war to bombard a town provided with batte-
ries as a means of defence against ships brought into col-
lision with it. The case was otherwise where a town had
no defences. We did not in the Crimean war bombard
Odessa because it had no batteries to attack our fleet. 01
towns that had been bombarded by civilised nations ho
might mention Algiers, which was bombarded in 1816,
Antwerp in 1830, Beyrout by the Turkish fleet, Acre in
1840 by the English, and Barcelona, by the Spanish Go-
vernment. The French bombarded Tangiers, a peaceful
town, and the private property of the Emperor of Morocco,
and allowed the Rabyle barbarians to come down upon it
and sack it. Rome was bombarded in June and July, 1848,
and in 1854 the Americans bombarded Greytown and
burned it to the ground. Here there were no batteries to
protect the town, yet the ships fired on it. Ia defence of
this conduct the President of America said the arrogant
contumacy of the inhabitants left no alternative but to break
up their establishments, or leave them under the impres
sion that they might pursue a career of lawlessness and
plunder. What was taking place now in America ? Charles-
ton was being bombarded. (Hear.) That town had batte-
ries, certainly, but then the Federals were constantly throw.
ing Greek ire and missiles into the town, We heard of
women and children being killed there, yet some persons
justified this mode of assault. (Disapprobation.) These
bombardments were not merely carried on by sea. Last
year we heard of the bombardment of Port Jackson, and
the New York papers described, with apparent satisfaction,
how the houses and public buildings wero destroyed.
(Hear, hear.) That was justified. (Opposition cheers.) He
quoted these cases to prove that civilised nations considered
the bombardment of towns as coming within the usages of
war. (Hear, hear.) When our ships were fired on at
Kagosima it eves our duty to return the fire. (Hear.)
No British admiral could avoid doing so. (Hear, hear.)
In this affair the papers would show that the admiral's
conduct had met with the approval of the French. It was
stated that the English had not been sufficiently
concilia-
t~;ry. The papers showed that the Americans had suffered
severely by Laing too conciliatory. In the papers laid before
Congress the American Minister at Japan said, " I have not
been anxious until recently for the presence of a naval force,
but my opinion has undergone a great change," and then he
recommended the sending a naval force to Japan as neces.
sary for some time to preserve to the world what had been
gained. Fe rotated also that it was the pretence of the Bri-

tish fleet in those waters which brought recent troubles to
a peaceful conclusion, (Cheers.) This was the recommen-
dation o'f the representative of a power which followed the
policy recommended by the hon. member for Northumber •
land. That Minister's house Was burned, and no notice taken
of the matter by the authorities, and now he was compelled
to admit that the American policy was a false one, and that
the policy of England was the only one by which peaceful
relationg could be established with Japan. (General apz
probation.) Were they to do as the batch did ? They gro-
velled on their bellies. Did they prosper? No, their posi-
...

tion became so intolerable that they were obliged to gi4e up
their trade• (Hear.) Our agents were the best judges of
what should be done. Our trade, in consequence of the
course adopted was rapidly increasing, and of the £7,000,000
and more invested in mercantile pursuits in Japan, more
than half that amount was British. (Hear) An attemp t
. .

had been made to interfere with the silk trade, but in con-
sequence of the firm representations of Col. Neale the Go-
vernment removed the restrictions complained of. Our re-
lations with Japan were purely commercial. Our object was
to carry out the views of the hon. gentleman (Mr. Bright)
below the gangway. (Laughter.) If that hon, gentleman,
instead of making exciting speeches in the country, would
endeavour to impress moderation on his hearers, and advise
them to give the Government credit for better intentions,
he would be much more iuseful. (Hear.) From what he
(Mr. Layard) knew of the East he believed that most of
our difficulties there were created by the British traders.
A host of traders rushed into every market, and they con-
sidered that the Government had nothing to do but to sup-
port them in their preposterous pretentious. He could not
agree with the terms of the motion. If the hon. gentleman
withdrew the words casting an imputation on Admiral
Kuper, who had no opportunity of defending himself, he
(Mr. Layard) would not oppose the motion, but if not he
would move the previous question. (Hear, hear,)
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE supported the amendment.
Mr. W. E. FORSTER believed the destruction of that
city was intentional, and ventured t) prophesy that when
the explanations came from the other side the only feeling
would be one of astonishment that we had ever expected
anything else than what had happened. The idea of shel-
ling the Prince's residence was suggested by the Minister
at home, who ought to have known that it would have been
almost impossible to do that without burning the town.
He thought, however, the house should not endeavour to
apportion the blame, but content itself with a simple ex-
pression of regret ; and he recommended Mr. Buxton to as-

sent to the Emendment.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL defended the conduct
of the Government, and its political and military agents, in
reference to the unhappy calamity that had befallen the

city of Kagosima.
Mr. WHITESIDE attached the entire blame to the
Foreign Secretary, upon whose instructions the city had
been bombarded. The question at issue was, whether this
country itself intended to practise those principles of huma-
nity which it was ever so ready to advise all other nations
to adopt. If we maintained such acts as had been done in
this case our laurels would be tarnished, and in vain should

we represent ourselves to the world as the most humane
people on the face of the earth.
Lord PALMERSTON—The right hon. and learned gen-
tleman said that there was one point which had not been

adverted to by my hon, and learned friend—viz., the double
demand which has been made in Japan. Now, Sir, it is un-

necessary to travel over ground which was so ably gone
over by my hon. friend the Under Secretary, and my hon.
and learned friend the Attorney-General. But I must say,

in the first place, that the treaty with Japan was in my
opinion a wise and useful arrangement. (Hear, hear.) I be-
lieve I may appeal to the other side to bear me out in that
(Hear, hear.) It was concluded with the treaty-making
power of that country. Although there is a division of autho-
rity in Japan, there being a spiritual chief, the Mikado, as
well as the Tycoon, yet there is no doubt whatever that the
Tycoon is the treaty-making and governing power, and
that was admitted by the Prince of Satsuma he a conversa-
tion with Col. Neale, in which he said, "The Tycoon was
to blame when he made that treaty for not having inserted
in it a clause giving to Daimios exclusive possession of the
roads in which they might make their processions." (Hear,
hear.) Well, that treaty has been in force now for several
years, we have appealed to it in cases in which we consi-
dered its provisions not duly carried out, and it has never
been urged in reply that it was not binding because it had
not received the sanction of the Mikado. (Hear, hear.)
Therefore, I dismiss altogether the doubts as to the bind-
ing nature of the treaty as having been made only by the
Tycoon. I think no man can doubt that British subjects,
both officials and private merchants, having been subjected
to repeated acts of outrage, attempted and perpetrated in
Japan, it would have been unbecoming, unfitting, and cri-
minal in the British Government to allow those outrages
to pass unpunished without demanding reparation or redress.
We should have been exposing our fellow-subjects in Japan,
resorting thither under the stipulations of the treaty, to the
murderous caprice of these Daimios and their retainers,
who, as my hon. friend stated, exercised such undisputed
sway in the country that when they purchased a new sword
and want to try t:L'e edge, they sally forth into the streets
and cut down the first ;ierson they meet there. It was ne-
cessary, therefore, for the sewurity of our fellow-subjects and
the honour of the country that satisfaction should be de-
manded for these outrages. But th..n lam asked, i° Why
have you demanded satisfaction both from the Tycoon's
Government and from the Daimio, by whose retainers
these particular outrages were committed ?" The fact was
this—there was a double default. (Hear.) The Tycoon's
Government were bound to give security to British subjects
within the range of their authority. This outrage was com-
menced within the range of their authority. It was commit-
ted upon the road called the Tokaido, which heel been ex-
pressly assigned for the use of British subjects, in order
that they might take their exercise there without molesta-
tion. It was the duty of the Tycoon's Government, if they
knew that a body of the Daimio's retainers were going in
procession along the road on a given day, and if they knew
and expected that any meeting between the procession and
British subjects might lead to violence, I say it was their
duty in such a case to have stationed guards upon the road
in order to protect Europeans. (Hear, hear.) We are there-
fore justly entitled to require from the Tycoon's Government
a sum sufficient to operate as a fine upon them for not afford-
ing proper protection to British subjects in a place in which
our countrymen were entitled to be. (Hear.) We were also
entitled to demand the punishment of the retainers who had
committed the outrages. But the Tycoon's Government said
"We are unable to afford this redress. These Daimios are
so powerful, that they defy our authority. We cannot get
you satisfaction; if you want it you must go to the Daimio
and get it yourself." Then we demanded, in the first place
satisfaction from the Government for their fault in not taking
those precautions which they might have taken, and which
it was their Jalty to take ; and we demanded satisfaction from
the Daimio whose retainers committed the outrage by which
a British subject had e:p :grievously suffered. And really,
when we are told by the hon. neernber who moved the amend -
ment that this wasia sort of chance ,Inedley, a casual encoun-
ter, which was below notice on the part of the British Go-
vernment, I do not think we should have bee;justified, and
I am sure the nation would not have thought us jenttified, in
holing the lives of British subjects so cheap. (Hear, hear.)
Sir, I cannot compliment the hon. member upon the good
taste he showed in that part of his speech. (Hear.) Well,
then, satisfaction was demanded and satisfaction was granted
by the Tycoon's Government, who consented to pay the sum
we requ,red. But Prince Satsuma refused. Were we
to submit to his refusal, or compel him to give us that
redress to which we were so justly entitled ? I say that we
should have failed in our duty if we had not resorted to the
means which were at our disposal for the purpose of com-
pelling this brutal Daimio to give us satisfaction for the
outrage. (Hear, hear.) It was not simply for the purpose
of punishing him—it was for the purpose of deterring others
from these murders, and were se frequently attempted, and
which had in some cases unfortunately been actually com-
mitted. (Hear, hear.) Why, the attack upon our Lega-
tion, the murder of two sentries at the door of the Legation
on another occasion—both of those atrocities were committed
by the retainers of Daimios who were specially employed by
the Tycoon's Government to protect the very people whom
they so barbarously attacked and, in some cases, murdered.
It was necessary for the protection of British subjects that
these Daimios should be taught that although they might
set at defiance the authority of the Tycoon, they could not
with impunity commit outrages upon British subjects.
(Hear, hear.) Akmiral Kuper was therefore ordered, in
case redress was refused, to use force in order to obtain it.
My noble friend at the head of the Foreign-office gave in-
structions not simply on his own authority, but instructions
sanctioned by the Government, and for which I take as full
a responsibility as any that can attach to him. (Hear.) I
entirely approved at the time, I entirely approve now, of
the course which my noble friend took; and I say that it
was the only course which was consistent with his duty as
a Minister of the Crown, and as representing the interests
of this country 'abroad. (Hear, hear.) Did my noble friend
say "Go and burn a defenceless town ?" No such thing.
He left it to the discretion of the admiral either to blackade
the town and port belonging to Prince Satsuma, or to de-
stroy his forts and his castle if that could be easily done.
Admiral Kuper performed his duty as a British officer
ought to perform it. He did not begin an attack upon the
forts. He demanded satisfaction, and parleyed for two
days with the envoys of Prince Satsuma. As my hon.
friend (Mr. Lae ard) said, they twice tried by acts of treachery
first to inveigle him and Colonel Neale ashore, and we know
pretty well what would have happened to them there ; and
next to surprise the vessel, and take it by asking permis-
sion to bring 40 armed retainers on board. This leave was
given, but a party of marines of equal force was ranged
opposite to them, and then they thought it better to re-
embark in their boat, without carrying out the object for
which they had come prepared. After two days spent in
negotiation, Admiral Kuper sent to take possession of the
steamers by way of reprisal, and if Prince Satsuma had
yielded to our demands those steamers would have been
released, and no harm would have been done to his forts or
to the town. But while these steamers were in the pos-
session of our ships the forts opened fire upon the British
squadron. I trust there is no man in this house who wiil
maintain that, when a British admiral commanding a squad-
ron is fired at by a foreign battery, it is not his duty to re-
turn the fire and to teach the enemy that British ships are
not to be insulted and attacked with impunity. Well, then,
Admiral Kuper was compelled to burn the steamers, in order
that hie ships might be free for action. Iu the course of

---"------------dtaahtaant.caoecl
etc inoutnn thede. town was set on fire, and we dee Vileir-evcatagre
""----
this incident r
wßhuitehththe
ohca:esteionrautsotokrecpollaleecet. tht ' - e was
°, erroubled
sear
It
is gale. The ships were firing in u ' boo
different
thing uonoen
veto
ship rolling in the waves, when at every
yourthing to firo at an object when Youc, '-
too fixed platform, awshonen shore ;garlit is is
Bhifin :Is
iwtshipeohsitthioens,haontdst\rvirens.thlevahime you. take is not the r• jet
storm they had the smokeuanidu to 0 l',
the house cvill see it was impossible to be sure that tin 3 ellme
would not go ocer the batteries and fall into the tt'wn" or
rnfrpsi,igeaanuendieedathlviyatesrdwyitaaptepde,ariend af Ir. lo itaiul .
town,
au;
ap
vtorw
hae,dadtiotif"
and e burnt.
aiee wrteheeaoitgwtnreci.ll
pulhwteeovaeyapberturihitoela"tahttiieo^o nof that
to ''
bi
quitli tirtte
Bichi
r
that the J ree;
population ns on the part of the LI overum_ent of action, / t,...--t
people yreason to hope that similar warning' was Pl:v-1000
eKoagosima, and that very few were in tb.arire
too
of
whe theofconflagration took place. Towns inSarot- hat these
the frailest possible material's. It is well knovill t••es. The
islands are subject to frequent and severe earthcall)P Ate
~ pl.
people cannot, dare1 not, build their houses °f so ilo
rials, lest the shock of the earthquake should 1'144 per,
down Theyi are built of wood, of bamboos, and C 4 P.. u,
which.
pie
in yeld to the oscillations of an earthqake. The t
was housed at the tiereWP'-00,
that whichnaurde our
Legation
paper
art.rous attack was made upon thenr had style
Aims, and when the members of the liefteo,
were drawnP in one room they thought themiselveostlif
that their up
assailants
did not come to them throligh tbs fret°
titions, instead of winding along the tortuous pase'lfetat the
which the
pthoeinJt ofy' were ultimately expelled. I say then Oll
were
reess
ti in
solatinhg°s:l3l:areoctiells
o:':istt-Tijito:r
the
nart
whichof Admiral Kuper, but was merely i d e -,,b
burning 0 entente
t° se,
the town was not the result of rule
was not brought on by us, but sit- De
ot,
turning
actioP
tthheatnhexe
aopfahnoense, and upon which the Adraireailltoicsriiig.:ldspiirtit_dattoi
so. The oeljehcet
the honour and aonf dtboefbdauttteyr,ieraef.ra(iun
efraorra.)
shelled ttheaeochastthlee,
nanatnitiuWbasybpieera;_i?ecriiree
neat day
his retainers were not with iraPtlllitY
the lives of British subjects. It was propel'
Da
gaai
imn is ot seatortilootf
ofore
Admiral Kuper to direct his shells against tbe cse„-ehis fir°
which ,wbhuattthat does not show that he directeu
ot viisti
availedremained of Breadth town; and the fi°l6 illicit
but it hasobeaennda
had begun
Well,
iinugthoef
tt Speech of her Majesty's Weprobably extended it over the gees.
ret tot
of the town'nlraetaudryally sp he conflagratloator
pert
result. Sir, arewe ceanitlierdeluypoenontoonsraywitthhattWhee rsetiegtil:ei;
on repeating
n a less
the most Session,
and has been adopted rePerlool
fformal manner hy this house tothe addleil. to ge
in reply that Speech. It is not usual for this hottwas beell
more formally
say, expressed before. (Ileartbettr'i f ohiP
fore,reducing the motion by the all
b 9
ts, it
has been moved,
consistent and which, no doubt, will be 147 of Ole
is reduced to
nations,entirely
to° andsw rfbesite
ualllt a 1,t1:::
town, and
Hwauttitythwtohpeouinautsa—l
prreagerteiteeatetfhewcaoreflasogroo;:tibosist lift:
opinion that the bombardment aft: cl,
point—the assertionexpretshseadt
tthheatbfoenael
Having disposed of the regret by BOY'll%df u's
mannerartake of it, and that this house had Alr'Zothet
formal 13
I will o°3_l is iS:
consistent with the practice of civilised natios sin ',vial
..,„gieu. 11
war. That assertion
is not correct —it is not Om- Avg bet
truth. There are innumerable instances of towns band ibe
bombarded. Some have been already mentioned* :.,, 040
a list of
BIM w that hi:gr.:latent of tow4ooot
practice of bombarding towea ill tif,;,:tstleil
is unfortunately not unusual. Therefore, to assert 1_40006
practice is ately
inconsistent with the usual practice of Ismfects cis.
civilised nations would be directly contrary to Oleo of oili;
scribed as historical records. I lament the proctico 001'
lised nations has been such ; I think it is desirablesio edito°
not imitatethe it, and it is not our practice. We abet
ifii.°ll,tivlfe
it in Russian war, as in the case of °dale°, ~jlto .-
knew
contained magazines of various kinds essewl'Thotor
. , 4..10 a, ,it
supply of the Russian ong a
army ; but we abs
as
P 03
ing Odessa, which was not a fortified town; as we ase,
fthis" 414
would not be in accordance with the feelings 0- ete,
to attack an undefended town, even to deprive tho 000
stores
against
twuhsieh would be useful to him for hostile Itioltill.A„,,t
Denying entirely the truth of the Pe'. attot11::
the .
of
civilised bombardment
of towns is at variance With the
treo, IP
ed nations in time of war, lam Perfect! itutteij,tif
agreethat it is a practice of which we dissPPO4, II
andcertainly are not disposed to 0110. O'osotit°,l
Therefore, I cannot accept the truth of the state stasis
I do accept the meaning and spirit upou which friestl%,
ment is (Hear.) I should hope ray hatl'olio deta,"l.
~_ made.
"Nuoesatisfied with the tone which has prevailed ill tics villivi
ne, I think, has maintained that it is Pre°,,topose.:a
oughtdestro to. be followed to bombard towns for roe scuts 70,
destroying the houses and property of notreeta bottle' ,
;f tbst i fosd
innocent person -
s , but nobody can deny that '2 SO Ue'. Sr
suit of
ing a conflict between attacking forces 0010 itiosoff
ellitile„4:1:
forcesweh inside, it is one of those incidental
iare among the calamities attaching to -:stioife. • is,t
tions erefore I hope my hon. friend willhe° oich "e
havin. gobtained an admission of the prineiPl9 tostlivisi,,To
contends,asitwould
and not be disposed to press his tooti°lti it ifoult` of
contrary be surplusage to express regret, and
historical tact to say that tlre bomb Vilietti`ti,
towns is to
not practised among civilized notions'
to /11"/SiPa
amendmentmatio. is disposed of I should but
bee. - .t, g
u with the previous question but if my f1t",130
twe'rould withdraw it, I think it wou'ld bo Itte oi. et 1/11 11
must hay
of a discussion the tone and tee/13- f
r.h ) 4ro 0,
Mr.
Bcue been satisfactory to him. (---eerBe • ° OP
311. JON expressed his desire, act
_4O
~.,,eto
regret which
had fallen from bl or, or -
the no e id,
his motion. -*noel, -
The house, however, dissented from this lirvr
upon esti,
Lord PALMERSTON moved the previous :,....
The house then divided. The nurabers vier 81
Ayes. 0000000000000 ~.....• 160
Noes .................. .. 0.....,,19
Majority for the Governaient '''.
The original motion therefore dropped. so. too,
•
APPEAL IN cuigiNAL CAS
0 ,
as 0 osee
On the mot' ion of Sir F. KELLY, lea" 11,,0110" 40
r
andt duce a bill providing a further appeal 01 i tiott"
for the fat ther amendment titaill-st°
of the a
criminal law.

toNthEeI.VhDEGATE asked lota° to iilti; we° D 6
stance
trusted lVi .oilliti cot
Leave wasegae CHURCH RATES. 0b te
deoe • 00
athbeill commutation of church rates. o°l'll joa, tlll
the same he had introduced last sess,.
amend the law of trespaso lO eertaill
Lth,teeAi
et was ordered
OenFto,bring ASSe bi11._......
xsv). Aoce
Mr.
ow.C.LHOA
it:
v.:: wßcyo
CABLES
LOEs
ERI allow osithoNibr at
anti(ot:li na:t ric:e di: i:
oce 0
to
it 1:0,i
of
°is:: :
land.
resolve into a co
lating the proving
BANK ACT (SCOT LAS 9*the i- Stt
obtained leave to introduo l' A bill
each
uofauthdescalue
AofNchcaßinLeLsobiltes::: i
:d:CflOeS'
mmittee tuhuatththeevhaouukee.A.,
cotoorrsueotliiol' 0
On the motion of Mr.BIIF.FBFELTi, °'-e -°ll t3;11
Qc
olimOinmr Mr. LAIRD
if:
to The
enttic°
6 e,l'
The house the.4l' .A 00 01-1° 1
bring
eSlßipn:ratnojdnobaintglhlrN.iese
subjectd tA.o v i
Ta vßBolEt,
wag
sNo
agree
rsip:pci 1
syt
o;:hvii
.A.:r
I:
ot, 1 : 0
adjourned at ten minutes p-- 013 v
[ADTERTIBEILEXT.]---110110Wily'el— Pi111:9:11.101‘lieellit
cheerless,death indeed, is the present season, W'',-13, id Pt°,oll°o°
diffused deaths are far above the average. Tile e'anioe iv 00
rel through the dull, damp fogs will° aow ty
nteeeriaouce:untsytaosniftelimantse. These pills PlirifY tile bia° toll° ts Oct
bilious fevers arte4
itabrrdyeebdyfooutftl.ygphausueossi,i,oallnitydsp:oipi°l°llooditioooo:olB,
best known promoters of digestion, the sores Teri. fltrf
the liver, and the most valued and effective of iv, liege,
and When the health is impaired with loss of 5071.400
andsvuleillp;atrheilsyrillitcti:lweal tit alluirr. d a cell°
'w
,
,--
--
0"
gatet ti'

Births.
FEONflOY.lCl—FOentiwtiheek,9tEhslqll.,stol flitts3o3n. itutiaild al"
Toile, leeP
...,,.a 119 ~ lie
KESE.--.011 the 9th inst., a Page-t•-iow
late of Clapham-park, the wife of .1423.1 tIO
Esq., of a son. k Berta
-• r 9
MuNito—On the Bth inst., at 0f
/tial
wife of David Munro, Esq., of a son. ~,, I,OIY
SCOTT --Oa the 7th inst., at Edinburgh, t."'
Scott, of a son.
rdarriaeO• ori'l
,by r oi
t Thor t Of' 3
DixoN—Bitiaco.—On the Bth ins t., 5- oupgos,lB tloci
cthheurlacbte,
John Dixon,
BGeorgecoflija.frocinget°l°:',oolfOcllroPitto-n
artitfr
daughter of Sir Robert Brisco, 13art'' a ~.
Cumberland. t r°ll:' te(At
MintruY—litoca—On the 2d inott,st., Drr': iti-
Church, Enniskerry, James IflurPhlf -`,;: of 01
law, to Mary Josephine eldest dal-
lion. Mr. Justice lieogh,,Booll°Yl3r ' ,0,
Deaths. Lea
,
ter, Wrii* le
SEAL.—On the 6th inst at Boysvfa f
.1
late of Exeter, aged 56. of 01°3°
paWar tiiill
DAws.—On the 7th inst., Mr. Thomas lig CAP
Hotel, Jermyn-street, aged 50.
. rii briaCcAvdeii•' tlio
HvDsoN.-00. the Bth inst., a,, -- -11 4. sge.- ,feet, -
George Isaac Hudson, late 3.1%.1. '' 'roolvo'''
g -Upper etreet,
LYGO/.1.--011 the sth inst., at I-, aeorge. t
Lady Louisa Lygon. a A rea. iro-
LITTLE.--OLL the Bth inst., at o.t,
_ota 1, idto
13ermondsoy, Thomas Little, Bag., °,,,),,,,r00p0rtt '-'
stoke," v Jli*
MENDsO the 7th inst., at V' r
SS
William B. Mends, aged 84. sutras ote
t Surbiton, weetto
TityNxt.—On the 7th inst., a ~_.,treet,
Thynno, Bsq., of 11, Greta GOOrbv .
aged 59. -,, -11)- 01' ‘,
if",
---_- _ ----------"<„, 1,-1,1A,'...,p "..-4°' at
- ci uy ir J.-- op.C- „di
London : Pini,zd rand fttishe , „ ,i, borl „,8 ail,
ot No. 112, StraPrinter, a%oi, If 7
Strand, Jil the l'recinet Ott iauir, 16 18(w
XlldltVeX.--liirodnesday, rept ri