The Sun.
London, England, 1864-01-15 00:00:00

PRICE
STAMPED ....sd.

depending upon the,haracter and religious denominations
of the inmates of Intr prisons; and if an interval were
allowed for membern, to obtain accurate returns on the
subject, he thought the convenience as we'.l as the de-
corum of the Court would be much promoted.
r. LAWRIE said that although the question was disposed
of at their last meeting, it was disposed of avowedly on the
ground that they had not before them the statistics requi-
site to guide them to a right decision upo't it, They knew,
indeed, practically what the effect of those statistics would
be; but they had not yet that information in en official and
authentic shape. That deficiency Mr. Cox's resolution
would supply, and it would hereafter be open to him to found
a further motion upon the returns. Mr. Turner's proposal
to refer the main question to any section of the Court was
very objectionable. Matters of detail might very well be so
referred; but that was a question, not of detail, but of
principle, and as such it should be dealt with by the Court
on their own responsibility. Would they or would they
not recognise the principle of the Prison Ministers Bill ?
He believed they ultimately would. It was their bounden
duty to do so. and if they did not they would virtually
abrogate the act of Parliament as far as that county was
concerned. (No.) That was his own individual opinion. The
adoption or rejection of the act should be discussed, after fair
notice, by the whole body of the magistrates, who ought not
to shrink from pronounchig a decision upon it ; and, if they
agreed to adopt it, then would be the time for referring to the
visiting justices points of detail as to salary, or the mode
of giving effect to that decision. Under the second section
of the act, the visiting justices had power to admit a Roman
Catholic minister to the prisons if they thought fit. If, in
a prison containing I,ftoo prisonees, they found 380 Protes-
tants, did anybody doubt that they would have a Protestant
chaplain P Then, on the principle of doing as they would
be done by, it was their duty to have a Roman Catholic
chaplain for the 380 prisoners of that faith. at Coldbath-
fields. They were required to do it by the Act. ("No.")
Practieally, the 'Act was obligatory upon them. (" No ; it
is discretionary.") No doubt it was an injunction left to
their candour and honourable feeling by the Legislature.
because the circumstances of particular districts were so
varions that one fixed uniform rule could not be made uni-
versally binding. But the preamble of the Act expressly
declared that the present system was defective and required
amending and extending. They had no right, then, to set
up their own opinion that the present practice was sufficient
in opposition to the declared will of parliament. He did
not deal with that as a religious question, but as a question
of the respect due to an Act of Parliament. At the proper
time he should vote for the appointment of a stated minister
for the Roman Catholic prisoners. It was said that what
they did for prisoners of that persuasion they must do for
prisoners of all their denominations. No doubt, a single
soul was infinitely precious, but the Legislature had made
numbers the test in this matter ; slid, moreover, there were
no such broad distinctions between Dissenters and the
Church of England as made submission to the ministrations
of the latter a sin on the part of the former, as was the case
with Doman Catholics. Apprehensions of proselytism had
been expressed, but it did not lie in their mouths to talk
about proselytism when every one of the 380 Roman Catholic
prisoners referred to was liable every day to be called upon
by a Protestant chaplain, and might be compelled to receive
his ministrations (" No l")—not, indeed, in the chapel, but
in his cell.

Mr. Cox withdrew his motion in favour of the first para-
graph of the amendment, which then became the substantive
motion, Mr. Turner consenting to limit his proposal for
the present to a mere request for returns.
Mr. HALSWELL thought there was a practical difficulty
in the way of their agreeing to the resolution for returns.
At the Westminster House of Correction, for example, he
believed the particulars now asked for were not k"pt on re-
cord, and therefore could not be furnished.
Mr, Sergeant PAYNE hoped it would be distinctly under-
stood that if the motion now proposed was agreed to the
hands of the Court would not thereby be in any way tied
when they came to discuss the question of principle here-
BLer.

Mr, Turner's motion for returns was then agreed to nem.
con., with the addition of words suggested by Mr. Stanford,
to embrace the statistics of other denominations besides
Roman Catholics as far as they can be obtained.
Mr. LA'wnlE then gore notice that on next county day,
if the returns now ordered were produced, he intended to
move that, having regard to ;,.be number of Roman Catholic
prisoners within the three prison in that county, it is expe-
dient to appoint for each of such prisons a minister of that
church, at a reasonable renumeration, under the provisions
of the PI icon Ministers Act.
Adjourned.