The Sun.
London, England, 1852-12-04 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 4, 1852.

high price, we have ended in importing mere than
70,000,0001 b. in one year, and every year at a cheaper rate.
(Hear, hear.) These would seem to be facts in the face of
which it is very difficult to believe that the production of
tea can be limited. A production so immensely increased,
and always imported at a lower price, appears to be one
the supply of which cannot certainly be likely to fail. But
in the year 1834, I think, or shortly after the passing of
the Reform Bill, when the trade with. China was opened—
when the charter of the East India Company was about to
be, or had become, matter of discussion—it was always
urged by persons of authority, against opening the trade
with China, that we should be greatly disappointed in
what would occur, because, the supply of tea being limited,
it was quite impossible that there could be any reduction
in the price. The supply of tea was then, I think, about
30,000,0001 b, per annum. Now we had, last year, im-
ported the unprecedented amount of 71,466,0001 b., our
consumption being, in round numbers, 54,000,0001 b. It
is quite clear, therefore, that the importation of tea is still
greater than our consumption • and it is also quite clear
that the duties which exist, which are nearly 240 per cent.
per lb. check a consumption equal to the importation.
(Hear, Well, sir, when we look to the gradual
increase in the importation of tea ; when we look to
the broad fact that 30,000,0001 b. under the restricted
trade have increased to 71,466,0001 b. under the freer
trade, though subjected to a colossal duty • when we look
to all the evidence before us, and to the gradual elimina-
tion always of price, we have a right, I think, primd facie,
to conclude that there will be no difficulty in supplying
the demand for tea in this country. But, Sir, her Ma-
jesty's Government, in dealing with this important subject,
have not deemed it consistent with their duty merely to
depend upon their own conclusions, formed from books,
and their observation of what occurs around them. They
have an opportunity of conaultingthose who are great autho-
rities on the subject, who, by their foreign residence, their
particular study of the matter in question, and their na-
tural aptitude to form conclusions on such subjects, should
be entitled to guide the judgment of .any Administration.
They have applied to those who, locally, were the best ca-
pable of forming an opinion—though, of course, to form
an opinion on a subject in a country like China is much
more difficult than in some other countries. Nevertheless,
we have now some knowledge of China ; nevertheless, there
are individuals who are very competent to guide even a
Government on such subjects ; and, after bestowing upon
this question the most laborious investigation, and having
omitted no efforts to obtain the most accurate information :
having suggested every means and every test by which
that information could be brought to bear, having even
personally had the honour and satisfaction of conferring
with some peculiarly qualified to offer an opinion on the
subject—her Majesty's Government have arrived at the
conclusion which, to use the most moderate language I can
command, may be thus expressed—that ,there can be no
prospect of any want of a supply of tea to this country.
(Hear, hear.) It is under these circumstances, sir, that we
have examined this question. We must remember some
facts of importance ; we must remember that since
the year 1841 the annual increase in the consumption of
tea in this country has been 1,727,000 lb. There has been
a gradual increase from 1841 of the consumption of tea,
even at a duty of 240 per cent. That increase durinc, the
last few years has been much larger. During the last six
years, without any reduction of duty, it has been nearly
10,000,000 lb. In 1851 the consumption in round num-
bers was 54,000,000 lb. ; in 1844 it was 44,000,000 lb. In
considering this subject, it was impossible to shut our eyes
to what has occurred in respect to the consumption of
sugar. (Hear.) The consumption of sugar in the year
1844, the year immediately preceding the great reduction
of duty, was 4,129,000 cwt. ; in 1850 it was 6,200,000 cwt.
—(hear, hear)—and in 1851 it was nearly 6,600,000 cwt.
—(hear, hear)—showing an increase in the first six years
of about one-half, and in seven years of considerably
more than one-half, the duty having been reduced
in the proportion of 25 to 10. In dealing with
tea we are of opinion that it would be perfectly
vain to attempt to make any difference either between
black and green, or between any qualities whatever. (Hear.)
We are persuaded we should only involve ourselves in
great trouble ; we should not attain the object we all de-
sire, and in this question, as in malt, or any question of a
similar kind, boldness is the wisest course. (Hear, hear.)
I mentioned before, we were not of opinion that the reduc-
tion of duties on articles so far of a similar character that
they both tend to the sustenance of the people in the form
of beverages, at all interfere with each other. I do not
know any more striking case than the case of coffee. I
think that in 1808 there was little more imported into this
country than 1,000,0001 b of coffee. The duty was then
considerable. It was changed—it was much lower; and,
in 1809—and remember what our population then was, as
compared with what it is at present—the importation was
nearly 10,000,0001 b. But simultaneously with that in-
creased consumption of coffee, the consumption of tea has
increased, and we are now consuming 37,000,0001 b of coffee,
while, as I have just shown, last year we consumed
54,000,0001 b. of tea, and probably we shall not, consume
much less than 57,060,0001 b in the year ending the sth of
January, 1854. Under these circumstances, availing our-
selves of the experience which dealing with the sugar duties
has given, following a precedent which I think has been so
successful—(hear)—we think the proposition that we ought
to make to the house—a proposition which I believe in
every way is a safe proposition—should be one in its cha-
racter of a complete and comprehensive nature. The pre-
sent duty upon tea, with the 5 per cent. added, is 2s. 20.
a pound. Without making any distinction in the qualities
of tea, we propose that we should reduce that duty is a-
pound—(loud cheers)—and we propose that, following the
example of the sugar duties, that reduction should take
place during the term of six years—(cries of " Oh, oh," and
laughter)—that in the first year there should be a reduc-
tion of 4id. (Laughter.) I think hon. gentlemen, when
they have reflected for a moment, will find that they are
too precipitate in their laughter, because we have to
consider two things,—we have not only to consider
the revenue, but also the consumer . who seems
to be quite forgotten. (Hear, hear.) There is
not the slightest doubt that if the state of the re-
venue allowed you at once to reduce the duty to is. a
pound, you would probably find the greater proportion
of it would not be to the advantage of the consumer ;
because, although I have great confidence in the produc-
tion of tea in China, although I know that China is the
most populous country in the world, without stating how
many hundred millions may be there, and although I
know that tea is used in every part of China, and that the
quantity exported is comparatively a very small part of
that which is produced and consumed in China, and
although I know very well there is a surplus left of that
quantity in China, still I am perfectly aware that if there
is a sudden demand in this market, and you have not taken
the usual and prudential care and consideration upon which
all trade must be conducted, you will not find the consumer
benefitted in the manner you desire, while at the same
time the revenue must suffer. (Hear, hear.) It
takes three or four years to make a tea tree, and that is a
point to be considered iu dealing with these duties. If
you want to increase production, especially of such an
article as tea, you cannot suddenly go with a demand for
which they are not prepared ; but, if you take the scale
which her Majesty's Government propose—a very mode-
rate scale I admit, but I believe a very safe one—l think,
with very slight injury to the revenue, you will ultimately
obtain that cheap and superior article which you would
desire. Of course, immediately dealing with an article of
tea is not like dealing with articles of °domestic produce,
which are subject to different conditions. But what we
prOpose is, that there should be an immediate reduc-
tion of 4id. a-pound in the duty on tea, reducing it,
from 2s. 2id. a-pound to is. 10d. I myself put the .in-
creased consumption at a very slight figure. Instead of
54,000,000 lb., upon which the last January revenue was
put, I only put 60,000,0001 b. for the first year of the reduced
duty, being an increase of 6,000,000 lb., but virtually not
much more than 3,000,000 lb. ,• because, as I have told the
house, the consumption of tea has so much increased on the
quantity at which the revenue was last taken in January,
1852, that probably the amount of the consumption of tea
for this year will be 57,000,000 lb. Therefore, virtually, I
only calculate upon an increase of 3,000,000 lb. at the re-
duced rate for the first year. I think when we take the
average of a great many years, we shall naturally arrive at
an increase of 2,000,000 lb. a year. This is not an exces-
sive calculation. I think the reduction we propose is one
that we could make with perfect safety to our finances, as
I will show to the house when I sum up the changes which
the Government have determined to recommend. I pro-
pose, then, in regard to tea, that we should immediately
reduce the duty 44d. a lb., and that every year it thould
be reduced 2d. until it arrives at ls. I believe if you
adopt that system you will very little injure the revenue,
—that you will gradually enable the people of this country
to have a supply, at a very reasonable rate, of a very
favourite beverage ; and that you will do more than that
—that you will give a great stimulus to the commerce,
the shipping, and the manufactures of this country.
(Hear.) Ido not know of any measure more calculated to
give a great stimulus to the commerce and shipping of this
country than dealing largely and extensively with tea
—(hear, hear)—and although I might have been glad to
offer to the house a project with regard to this duty which,
upon one branch, might be of a more favourable character,
yet, considering that the financial year is not closed, and
ether circumstances,
I am persuaded we have taken a
prudent as well as a bold course ; and that, if the House
accepts our proposition, they will have consented to one of
the most important operations,
and sanctioned one of the
most important measures ever brought forward to stimulate
the commerce of this country. (Hear.) There is one duty
I am about to deal with, which is connected with this
branch of the 'subject, and which, perhaps, I ought to have
adverted to before, and that is the hop duty. (Hear, hear.)
We are unwilling to make this effort to give cheap
beer to the people without dealing with one of the
important ingredients of that beverage. (Hear, hear.) The
house is aware there are two duties now levied upon hops.
There is the old duty of the time of Queen Anne, and there
is the war duty
unposed during our great struggle. Those
duties are almost equal in amount ; in round numbers,
without the fractions, they amount nearly to about ld.
each—(a laugh)—and what we propose is, that the old war
duty—a very unpopular duty—a duty which ought never
to be continued, should be remitted. (Cries of " Oh, oh!"
and laughter.) At present we do not propose to take off
all. Something must be left for future statements of this
kind. (Great laughter) Still, I think, in reducing the
hop duty one and
ing the tea duties immediately considerably in the pound,
and establishing machine
ry which will bring it down to ls. a
lb, it cannot be said wehave been unmindful of the claims of
the community, acting on the principle of unrestricted com-
petition. Now, sir, there is one point of some importancewhich
I think I ought to touch upon. We are raising the revenue
of this country, and recommending all these measures on
the principle that the revenue of this country shall mainly
depend on the consuming power of the people. But it
has been said of late, it- has been rumoured about with
considerable vehemence that the consuming power of the
people is rapidly diminishin, Some modern economists—
I speak of those statements which meet my own eyes in
many quarters and in many Places—
say that the consum-
ing power of the people is in a state of rapid reduction ; and
I think I am only doing my duty in calling the attention
of the house to that subject, for it is one that very
much agitates the public mind ; and it is the duty of
the house to instruct itself upon a subject of so much
importance ; for, if that is true, certainly the principle
upon which I am now recommending these measures is
erroneous and mistaken. Now, sir, no evidence reached
me which in any
way makes me believe there is the slightest
foundation for saying the consuming power of the people is
diminishing. (Hear, hear.) I apprehend the statement,
that the consuming power of the people is diminishing, is
founded upon the emigration that has taken place from this
country; and that is a subject to which the hen. and
learned member for Wolverhampton called my attention
the other night. There is no doubt that, if we look to the
returns of emigration, there is a greater amount of emi-
gration from this country than is counterbalanced by the
births that take place in England and Wales. In the
year 1840 the emigrations were in round numbers 300,000;
in 1850 they were 280,000 ; in 1851, 335,000; and on the
Ist of October, 1852, the last return I have, that is to
say, in three quarters of a year, they are in amount
nearly equal to the whole of the year 1851—namely,
332,000. There is no doubt also that the births of this
country, in 1851, were in round numbers little more than
600,000, and the deaths were 400,000. So it would seem

from these returns that our births exceeded our deaths by
200,000 in the year 1851 ; and that our emigrations
exceeded the superfluity of our births by considerably
above 100,000 ; but, if these facts are a little examined,
—if they are a little analysed, it will be found there
is no foundation for the conclusions that have been
hastily drawn from them. In the first place, the re-
turn of our births, marriages, and deaths is confined to
England and Wales ; in the second place, the amount of our
emigration is small—two-thirds of it is from Ireland, a
country which does not figure in the returns of our births
and population. Then we have to consider the different
causes that have produced emigration from Ireland and
emigration from England. Emigration from Ireland is pro-
duced by a social system that has broken to pieces. (Hear.
It is produced, I may say, by the misery of the people.
The emigration from England is produced by causes exactly
the contrary. The people here were never better off, but
they have foreign inducements that act upon their spirit of
energy and enterprise, and they are determined to seek
even better fortunes than they experience. That is the first
point—that is the great difference between the causes that
have produced the emigration of the two countries. The
emigration from England is, in fact, only 100,000 a-year,
while there is an addition of 200,000 to its population.
There is nothing, it would seem, excessively apprehensive
in the fact that our emigration, stimulated by the higher
aspirations of man, and not occasioned by a sense of misery,
so far affects our population that 100,000 persons quit us,
while the natural increase of our population is 200,000 ; but
even if there were 200,000 or 300,000 quitting England, I
could not view emigration, under such conditions as those
under which the emigration from Great. Britain takes place,
as a source of weakness to the country—(hear, hear)—or in
speaking of the finances of the country, as a source of the
diminution of its consuming power. (Hear.) One shrinks
from paradoxes upon a subject so grave ; but my own opi-
nion is that it has a tendency to increase the consuming
power. (Hear, hear.) Every emigrant from England
generally becomes an English colonist—(hear, hear)—and
an English colonist becomes an English customer—(hear,
hear)—and our markets are stimulated, our people are em-
ployed, and their wages are improved by the very circum-
stance which some regard as the source of our diminished
power of consumption. (Hear, hear.) But even if I look
to the case of Ireland, where emigration takes place under
conditions so contrary to those of England, I am still
obliged to arrive at a similar conclusion. Have hon. gen-
tlemen remembered what the state of Ireland was a few
years ago?—have they forgotten that memorable document
the Devon Commission ?—have they remembered ' that
description, which circulated throughout Europe, of there
being in Ireland 2,400,000 paupers—that more than one-
third of the people were receiving no wages of any kind—
that they were living in hovels, littered on straw, feeding
on dry roots, and often on seaweed ? That was the
description given by Royal Commissioners, under a
Royal Commission, of a great part of the people of
Ireland. Well, then, you have got rid, in a certain de-
gree, of that population. It is no doubt a dark passage,
a gloomy chapter, in the history of any country, that
such events should occur ; but I am only looking at in a
financial point of view to-night. I am bound, in bringing
forward measures, such as, on the part of the Government,
I am bringing forward, not to omit a matter of such vast
interest, upon the truth of which the whole of this subject
depends. It is of the utmost importance—the whole ques-
tion is the consuming power of the people of this country.
But, although we have lost in Ireland more than one
million and a-half of the population, has the revenue of
Ireland suffered a diminution in proportion to that
loss ? On the contrary, the revenue of Ireland never
very sensibly diminished. (Hear, hear.) Between the
year before the famine and in the present year there
has not been a difference of anything like half-a-million.
I believe in the former year it was very little more than
4,7000,0001., and—l am sorry lam trusting my memory
on the point—it is now, I think, 4,000,0001. and upwards.
But it is in a very buoyant state. I take the case of Ireland
because we are there apparently in a state of disadvantage ;
and all this shows that the consuming power of the people
does not depend on their numbers, but on their condition
(hear, hear), and lam persuaded that if the exodus, as it is
called, of Ireland continues, it will end even in' Ireland
being a much richer and wealthier country, and that
the consuming. power of the people will not only remain,
but will increase. (Hear, hear.) But, as regards Great
Britain, the emigration that takes place, instead of be-
ing a source of disquietude and alarm, is, in fact, the
means by which the wealth of this country will be greatly
increased • it will have a most beneficial effect upon the
people that remain ; it will develope their resources, and
give opportunities to many who never before enjoyed
them, and the general result will be beneficial to the re-
venue. And not only will the consuming power of the
people increase, but also the population. There is one
point connected with this subject of great importance.
There is an apprehension entertained by some persons that
there is an unnatural rise in the rate of wages. Great authori-
ties, I believe, are of opinion that the rate of wages is
increasing so rapidly that the rate of profits will not only
be diminished, but destroyed. Now, lam bound to say,
that in pursuance of my duty, I have made inquiry into
this subject ; but I have not received any evidence of the
extraordinary rise of wages of which I have heard. (Hear,
hear.) I believe that there has been a rise in wages, and I
believe, moreover, that it has been very much to the publi c
benefit ; and that, if it continues, the public will be
still more benefited. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) One thing,
I think, is clear—that the consuming, power of the country
has not been diminished by the rate of wages rising. But,
sir, although the rate of profit depends upon the rate of
wages, that is not the only element in this great question.
There is another element still more important in its solu-
tion, and that is the rate of interest. (Hear, hear.) The
employer of labour may pay more for his work—l hope he
does ; but the employer of capital is obtaining that capital
at the present day at a lower rate, and with a facility
which no employer of labour ever before enjoyed. (Hear,
hear.) Sir, the hon. gentleman the member for Wolver-
hampton (Mr. Villiers) said to me the other night that the
discovery of gold, like any other article, had given activity
to commerce, but no more than any other article ; and he
called upon me to meet him upon that point. I did not
think that that was exactly the night to go into that
question, but I deny the position of the hon. gentleman
that the discovery of gold, like the production of
any other article, has given activity to commerce, but
no more than any other article. I maintain that
it has not only given increased activity to commerce,
hut that it has influenced the commercial operations of
this country to an extent which no other article ever has
done. (Hear, hear.) I say that the discovery of gold,
considering the currency which we possess, has established
credit in this country in a manner which no political econo-
mist could ever have imagined. (Hear, hear.) I say that
it has increased and confirmed credit in this country, and
that that increase and confirmation of credit has, of course,
immensely increased the employment of the people. In my
opinion, it is a mere blind and obstinate prejudice to shut
our eyes to that conclusion. (Hear, hear.) But there is
another question to be considered in regard to our pros-
oerity at this moment, and that is, will the present
low rate of interest last ? I hope it will. My opinion
is7.--though it is, perhaps, imprudent in me to give it—my
opinion is that, whatever imprudences may occur, and I
need not say that I deprecate them, but, notwithstanding
some imprudence the present rate of interest will con-
tinue. (Hear, hear.) I believe that it depends upon
conditions and circumstances which have never before
prevailed in this country—upon natural circumstances and.
Permanent conditions—and that, if we only act, with to-
lerable prudence, with such advantages as we derive from
a low rate of interest, arising from natural causes, this
country has an opportunity before it of material progress
such as never occurred before to the vision of any states-
man. (Cheers.) The committee will remember that, by
the remission of taxation which I have proposed on the
part of Government through the measures which I have
attempted to place before them, there will be a reduction
of revenue to the amount of between 3,000,0001. and
1,000,000/. sterling. I shall have occasion hereafter to
Place the items more particularly before the house ; but in
the meantime, I desire not to involve you immediately in
any large amount of figures. But, by the remission which I
propose in the malt tax, there will be a reduction of income
to the extent of 2,500,000/. ; by the reduction on the tea
duties an immediate loss of 400,0001., and ultimately
much more—probably 1,900,0001., and by the reduction in
the hop duty, the revenue from which, as you are aware, is
fluctuating, but the average of which I think may be taken
at 300,0001. I have in fact proposed a reduction to the
amount of something between 3,000,0001. and 4,000,0001.
sterling. But I must remind the committee that although
this is only December, in a few months one of the princi-
pal sources of the revenue of the country will terminate;
and that if they support the propositions of the Government
they must not only encounter this great remission of taxa-
tion, and, consequently, some great diminution of revenue,
but they must likewise be prepared to deal with the
consequences of a law expiring which now gives us more
than 5,000,0001. sterling per annum,—l mean the property
and income-tax. (Hear, hear.) It will become the
duty of the house, then, to decide what they will do
with the property and income-tax. (Hear, hear.) Now
it has always been to me, as I am sure it must be to
any gentleman, exceedingly disagreeable to read to the
house anything I may have said on a previous occasion ;
and I am quite sure that nothing would ever induce me to
do so by way of authority ; but it is absolutely necessary
that on the present occasion I should presume to call the
attention of the house to some remarks which I made on
the subject of direct taxation when I laid before the house
last session my financial statement, more especially as
many gentlemen are now in the house who were not then
members. (Hear, hear.) I then called the attention of
the house to the difficulty with which the revenue of the
country was raised. I reviewed the objections which were
made to indirect taxes in the shape of Customs' duties and
Excise duties—and I at last showed that, although there
had long prevailed an abstract opinion in favour of direct
taxation, yet all attempts that had hitherto been made to
apply it to the raising of our revenue had only led to the
conclusion that it was contrary to every principle of
science and justice. (Hear, hear.) I then said, speaking
of the committee of the House of Commons then sitting,
and whose opinion I naturally referred to with reserve, as
they had not then made their report to the house,--I then
said !

propertylfrahnakvenensostinprreesfuemreenac,eatnoathweilltanxotuppornesum
" There is another point on which I can speak with more
opi-
nion upon the justice or injustice of a change in the mode by
which the assessment of permanent and temperate incomes
e, o giveand income.
is effected. But there is a point, I believe, on which the
committee is so unanimous that their opinion need not be a
secret ; and it is also, I believe, the unanimous opinion of the
House of Commons, as I am sure it is of the country—namely
that if taxes of this character—if measures of direct taxation
like the income-tax—are to form not temporary but perma-
nent features of our system of finance, they cannot rest upon
a system of exemptions. Well, but if they are not to rest
upon a system of exemptions, do you augment the methods
to which a Chancellor of the Exchequer may successfully ap-
peal for the purpose of raising revenue ? No doubt direct
taxation is in its theory an easy, a simple, and a captivating
process ; but, when you wish to apply that direct taxation
generally, it is astonishing the objects you encounter and the
prejudices you create. Sir, to my mind—and I think it is a
principle-now pretty well established—direct taxation should
be nearly as universal in its application as indirect taxation.
The man who lives in a palace and a cottager, as consumers,
are proportionally assessed. It is not perhaps, possible that
in direct taxation you can effect so complete a result—per-
haps it is not necessary; but that, if your revenue is to de-
pend mainly, or in a great degree, upon direct taxation—if it
is permanently to depend upon direct taxation, you must
make the application of the direct tax general, is to me a
conclusion which it is impossible to escape. No doubt, by
establishing a temporary measure of direct taxation based
upon a large system of exemptions you may give a great im-
pulse to industry ; you may lighten the springs of industry
very effectually for a time ; but—not to dwe:l upon the gross
and glaring injustice of a system of finance that would tax
directly a very limited portion of the 'population—but look-
ing only to the economical and financial consequences of such
a system, who cannot but feel that, in the long run, industry
itself must suffer froth such a process ? For, after all, what
is direct taxation founded on a system of exemptions ? It is
confiscation. It is making war upon the capital which ulti-
mately must employ the very industry which you wish to re-
lieve."

I Veg the House not to suppose that I have read this as
any other authority on the subject, but I feel that is neces-
sary that the sentiments which I uttered in the financial
statements I made to the House six or eight months ago
should be kept clearly before them. I also said
" We deem it our duty to impress upon the committee and
upon the country the dangerous course upon which they have
embarked—to impress upon them the absolute necessity, now
or in another Parliament, of arriving at s pme definite under-
standing on what principle the revenue of this country ought
to be raised. They deem it their duty to denounce as most
pernicious to all classes of this country the systematic reduc-
tion of indirect taxation, while at the same time you levy
your direct taxes from a very limited class."
Now, sir, I cannot say that subsequent experience has
changed or modified my opinion on this subject. (Hear.
hear.) lam clearly of opinion that, if we have recourse to
direct taxation, that direct taxation should be as general, at
least in theory, as indirect taxation ; that, however, we may
in practice, find it expedient in some cases to make exemp-
tions, the theory that a plan of direct taxation can be based
upon a large system of exemptions is one which is most
pernicious, and ought to be avoided. (Hear, hear.) Well,
then, sir, I venture, in offering to the house the views
which her Majesty's Ministers entertain with respect to the
property and income tax, to lay it down as a general prin-
ciple that,. in considering this question, we ought to make
our direct taxation in theory at least as general as indirect
taxation. And, sir, when I consider the very large exemp-
tions which are connected with this tax, there is one which
I am bound at once to notice, and take into consideration,
and that is the exemption of Ireland. (Loud cries of "Hear,
hear !") Now, sir, when in the early part of the year I
proposed, on the part of the Government, that this tax
should be continued for one year, I made no reference
whatever to Ireland. That was avowedly a mere tempo-
rary arrangement, and it was therefore quite unnecessary
to enter into the discussion then. But, having now come
to consider the question more widely, I do not think it
consistent with my duty to evade expressing the opinion
of her Majesty's Government on the subject. (Hear.)
Sir R. Peel, in his financial statement of 1842, when he first
introduced the property and income-tax, proposed to im-
pose on Ireland, as an equivalent for the property and in-
come-tax, two other measures—the one was an increase of
the duty on spirits, which, I remember, he estimated would
produce 250,000/. a year, and the other was an increase of
the duty on stamps in matters affecting property, which
he estimated would produce 160.000/., making altogether
410,000/. a year. That was to be the contribution of
Ireland to the revenue in another form, and as an equiva-
lent for the exemption from the property and income-
tax. Now, one would naturally like to be always taking
off taxes, and never reminding any gentleman that he had
not perhaps paid those which had been expected of him—
(a laugh)—but it was necessary to inform the house that
the measure for increasing the duty on spirits had since
been rescinded, in consequence of its having been found to
have stimulated illicit distillation ; and that in 1841, before
the passing of the Property and Income-tax Act, the aggre-
gate receipt from the stamp duties was 470,000/. per
annum ; while in the year 1852 they produced only 486,0001.,
so that Ireland had contributed, as an equivalent for the
Property and Income-tax, instead of 410,000/. per annum,
as was expected, only 16,000/, (Hear, hear.) Well, Sir,
but notwithstanding all this, it is impossible to be
insensible to what Ireland has gone through. (Hear,
hear.) When Sir Robert Peel brought forward the
Income-tax, in 1842, it was impossible for him or the
most experienced statesman, to have foreseen the long
catalogue of calamities which awaited Ireland. (Hear.)
Almost every cause that could exhaust and every process
that could debilitate a country and society has been brought
to bear on that unhappy land. I freely admit, to use—not
a classical, but a frequent epithet—that as regards its
financial condition, Ireland since that period, or at least
during many years, has been in a very exceptional state.
But the state of Ireland is happily not now without a ray
of hope. (Laughter, and cries of Hear, hear.") As far
as I can form an opinion—and I can assure my Irish
friends that I have taken the utmost pains to make myself
acquainted with its condition—and I think I may venture
to speak of Ireland without using the language of de-
spair or the accents of desolation—(cheers)—you have
had a crushing poor-law ; but what is your present
position with regard even to that overwhelming evil ?
Is it not more endurable? (Hear, hear.) Permit
me to place before the house a return of the present
incidence of poor-law taxation in Ireland. I don't
want to insult any gentleman by showing him that his
country is not ruined. (Laughter.) lam only anxious, in
fulfilment of my duty, to convey, as far as I can, a cor-
rect view of the state of her Majesty's dominions -Co " her
faithful Commons." (Hear, hear.) Now, I have here a
" comparative summary, in provinces, of the expenses in-
curred in the poor law unions of Ireland during the finan-
cial year ending September 29, 1850, 1851, and 1852 re-
spectively." I find from that document that the poor law
expenditure in 1850 amounted to the enormous sum of
1,320,000/. ; that in 1851 it was reduced to 1,129,000/. ;
that in the year ending the 29th of September last the ex-
penditure, which in 1850 was 1,320,0001., had been re-
duced to 855,000/. I also find that the decrease of ex-
penditure in 1851, as compared with 1850, amounted to
nearly 200,0001., or at the rate of 14 per cent.; that the de-
crease of expenditure in 1852, as compared with 1851, was
in amount 274,0001., or at the rate of 24 per cent.—that
the decrease in the expenditure of the year 1852, as com-
pared with 1850, was in amount not less than 465,000/., or
at the rate of 35 per cent. lam sure, when one has this
authentic return before him, he is justified in mot altogether
despairing of the condition of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) In
Connaught alone I find that the diminution of expenditure
in 1852, as compared with 1850, was no less than 116,0001.—
or at the rate of 48 per cent. (Cheers.) Now, sir, in
looking to the condition of Ireland, I must call the attention
of the house to a document before me, because it completes
the picture of the incidence of poor law taxation, of which
we have heard so much. I don't deny that our friends in
Ireland have suffered from the severe incidence of taxation.
I admit that they have gone through a terrible ordeal • but
I say to them, as I say to the West India interest, " What
I mean to do for you is with reference to your present con-
dition, and not with reference to the past. (Hear, hear.)
Now, here is a document which reached me just before I
came down to the bongo, and which completes the picture
of the state of Ireland with reference to.the poor law, of
which we have heard so much, and from which Ireland has
suffered so severely. It is addressed to me officially, and
is as follows :

" You may remember that, in September last, the sum of
30,0001., being the greater portion of the balance of the Irish
Rate-in-Aid Fund, was appropriated by the Treasury to the
liquidation of the debts of certain unions in the west of Ire-
land, subject to the condition that any union assisted in this
manner would thenceforth be considered as excluded from
the list of distressed unions, and that previously to such re-
lief being recommended, the Poor-law Commissioners must
be satisfied that proper provision would be made by rates for
the future requirements of the union. A report has been
this day received from the Poor-law Commissioners describ-
ing the proceedings taken by them under the above instruc-
tion, from which it appears that all the unions affected by
this arrangement, except the -- Union" (I forbear men-
tioning the name) " have given the assurance and struck the
rates as required, and that the reluctance of the guardians of
the Union to comply with the prescribed conditions
does not arise from inability, but from a desire to transfer a
greater share of the bm-den of their rates to the public."
(Laughter.) I don't wonder at the laughter of hon. mem-
bers, and that is the reason why I did not read the name of
the union. (" Hear, hear," and cries of " Name.")
" This declaration of solvency, in respect to all the re-
maining unions of Ireland about whose power of maintaining
their poor any doubt remained, is a fact of great importance,
and you may think proper to advert to it in your financial
statement. The object of establishing a comprehensive and
complete Poor Law in Ireland has been finally accomplished,
and the whole of Ireland is now able to maintain its own
poor, without external pecuniary assistance from any quar-
ter. There is still a balance of the rate-in-aid left of upwards
of 12,0001., which will be more than sufficient to meet any
more than usually distressed cases of particular electoral
divisions."

(Hear, hear.) Such, then, is a picture of the condition
of Ireland. I don't say it is perfect. Don't let my hon.
friends from Ireland suppose that I am malignantly mis-
representing them, and that I am not doing justice to
their calamities. All I ask them to admit is, that having
gone through great difficulties and borne them like men,
their position is very much improved. That is all I ask.
(Hear, hear.) But there are other reasons why there has
been some discontent evinced that Ireland has not been
subjected to the income-tax. People are discontented
that instead of getting 410,000/. from Ireland, as was
originally expected, when the property and income-tax
was imposed on this country, they have only got
16,0001. (Hear, hear.) People, too, have been not disin-
clined—although I confess it is churlish—to forget the
sorrows and calamities of Ireland ; but there are other
complaints of a very different character, with re-
gard to not extending the income-tax to Ireland. (Hear.)
The Governor of the Bank of England has made an official
complaint to me that at the present moment the Bank of
England is prepared to purchase terminable annuities, but
that it is impossible for him to contend with the Governor
of the Bank of Ireland, in consequence of Irish funded
property not paying the income tax. He says; " I have
no doubt the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be receiving
deputations from injured interests, but there is really no
body more unjustly treated by recent legislation than the
Governor and Company of the Bank of England by the
property tax not being extended to Ireland." There is
another point of view in which the subject ought to be
considered. The amount of public funded property in Ire-
land is increasing yearly, and has for a long time increased,
in consequence of its not being liable to the tax which the same
description of property has paid in England. I mention this
to show what a difficult thing an income tax is based upon
exemptions. (Cheers.) Now, Sir, I shall venture to treat
this great exception in the following manner. Ido not
think that it would be wise to treat with any harshness the
landed proprietors of Ireland. They have suffered severely
from the late famine, and I should be sorry to pounce on
Ireland and to say " You shall pay your quota." I think 1
we ought to do everything that is possible to assist
that " wise, just, and beneficial" change that has taken
place in Ireland. (Laughter and cheers.) And Ido not
think that it is expedient that we should throw any ob-
stacles at the present moment in the way of the regenera-
tion of that country. (Hear, hear.) But I must say this,
that, remembering what her Majesty's Governments have
done for that country, I shall feel it my duty, when I lay
before the house my schedule, in which I intend to recom-
mend them to undertake the reconstruction of the new
income tax—l shall recommend them to extend the income
tax to funded property in Ireland, and to salaries in
that country. (Sensation.) Sir, an hon. gentleman a
friend of mind, with reference to this subject, asked me the
other night whether her Majesty's Government were pre-
pared to carry into effect the recommendations of the House
of Lords with regard to consolidated annuities. I have the
opportunity to-night of stating that the amount of consoli-
dated annuities is 240,0001. per annum, or something like
that sum. Sir, the house will recollect how the consolidated
annuities came into existence. There was a loan made to
Ireland of nearly 10,000,0001. Subsequently that loan was
reduced in amount to about one-half. I was always one
who believed that that loan was in a great degree advanced
for an imperial calamity, and that it ought to be consi-
dered in that light; and I do not object to the arrangement
then made in any sense whatever. But the house will
understand that the balance of that loan, on being re-
duced by that amount, was thrown into the form of Con-
solidated Annuities, which were calculated with reference
to the peculiar circumstances of each case. I must refrain
from entering into the discussion of this question, but I
think lam not free to avoid all allusion to the subject. I
have shown to the house to-night that in 1852, as com-
pared with 1851, there has been a diminution in the charge
of poor-rate in Ireland. of 274,0001., and that this is a sum
considerably greater than the whole amount of the Conso-
lidated Annuities. (Hear, hear.) And I must beg my hon.
friend who asked me the question to recollect what I have
said with reference to those persons who in England are
suffering from what they consider the unjust incidence of
local taxation. I have show/ that the reduction in the
amount of pauperism is this year greater than the whole
establishment charges, and I tell him also that in con-
sidering this question he must remember that the state