The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-17 00:00:00

fourtt V2lTifton

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT
(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS•

The SPEAKER took the Chair at a few minutes after
Twelve o'clock.

NEW MEMBER.
Mr. BATESON took the oaths and his seat, on his re-
election for Londonderry.
SECOND READINGS.
The following Bills were read a second time:—
Abbey Tintern and Bigswear Roads.
Battle and Robertsbridge Road.
Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway (No. 3).
Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway (No. 4).
Shields and Morpeth Roads.
Someraetshire Central Railway.
Southam to Kineton Road.
Thetford Fen District Drainage.
Torquay Market and Slaughter-houses.
PETITIONS.
Mr. B. DENISON presented a petition from Leeds
in favour of the Pharmacy Bill.
Mr. MILES presented a petition from a place in
Somersetshire against the Maynooth grant.
Similar petitions were presented by Mr. T. DuNcomnE,
and by Mr. BOUTERIE from a place in Scotland.
Mr. KERSHAW presented a petition from Stockport
in favour of secular education.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER presented a petition from the
county of Lincoln against the post-horse duty.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from Rochdale in
favour of the Pharmacy Bill.
Similar petitions were presented from the metropolis
by Lord Dudley Stuart and Mr. Wakley; by Mr. W.
Patten from Burnley, Lancashire; by Mr. Hindley from
Hants; and by Mr. W. Williams from Walworth.
Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition from Finsbury,
praying for the compulsory enfranchisement of copy-
holds.

Mr. GEORGE THOMPSON presented a petition
from females residing in Sheffield against the Militia Bill.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from the corpora-
tion of Manchester against the Manchester and Salford
Education Bill; also several other petitions from Man-
chester, and one from an educational society in London,
to the sane effect.
Mr. ADDERLEY presented a petition from the
municipality of Cape Town, complaining that the local
Government had delayed the introduction of the new
constitution, and praying that steps may be taken to
carry the constitution into effect as soon as possible.
Mr. PIGOTT presented a petition from Reading,
against the post-horse duty; also one from the same
place, in favour of the Pharmacy Bill.
MANCHESTER AND SALFORD EDUCATION

BILL.
Mr. BROTHERTON, on moving the second reading
of this Bill, said as he was anxious that all persons
should be fairly heard, he did not object to the petitions
which had been presented; but he reminded the House
that they ought to have been submitted to the Private
Bill-office.—(Hear.) He would not delay the House by
expatiating on the importance of education, for it was
admitted on all hands that it was necessary to extend
education in the country, but he would frankly state
the origin of the Bill and the circumstances in which it
was placed. There were three parties in the towns of
Manchester and Salford anxious to promote the cause of
education; and they differed as to the best means of
accomplishing that object—one party being for
religious education, another for secular educa-
tion, and a third for voluntary education. The
Bill was supported by a very large number of rate-
payers. No less than 40,000 rate-payers in the
two townships had signed petitions in favour
of the measure. The Town Council of Man-
chester had, howeeer, thrown out the Bill by a ma-
jerity of 32 to 2e, out the Town Council of Salford had
approved of it by a majority of 17 to 14. The majority
of 17 paid 9,243/. in local rates, and the mi-
nority only 1,826/., showing clearly that the
feeling of the rate-payers was in favour of
taxing themselves for the purposes of education. It had
been objected that this was more of a public than a pri-
vet® Bail, but the promoters had despairsd of seeing a
general measure passed applicable to the whole king-
dom, and the necessity for education in Manchester and
Salford was so great that they deemed it advisable to
propose a scheme of their own, which would not only
not infringe upon the consciences of any, but be gene-
rally acceptable to the ratepayers. If the House agreed
to the second reading, the Bill might be referred to a
Select Committee, or, when the report was brought up,
it might be submitted to a Committee of the
whole House, and then treated in all respects as a
public Bill.—(Hear.) He considered that the towns of
Manchester and Salford had done themselves immortal
honour in setting so noble an example to the kingdom,
and of showing that they sincerely desired to promote
education.—(Cheers.) All they wished was a system of
education suitable for the working classes, supported
by local rates, and under local management. The
amount of remuneration to be given under the Bill de-
pended entirely upon the number of scholars, the prin-
ciple being to pay in proportion to the work done. The
Hon. Member concluded by moving the second reading
of the Bill.
Mr. M. GIBSON said he intended to take a rather
unusual but not an irregular course with regard to the
Bill. He meant to in ,:3 an amendment, to leave out
all the words aftsr the word " that," for the purpose of
adding a resolution, to this effect—" That a Select Com-
mittee be appointed to inquire into the state of education
in the municipal boroughs of Manchester and Salford,
and adjoining townships, and to ascertain whether it is
advisable to make any further proposition, and in what
manner, for the education of the inhabitants
within such boroughs and townships, by means
of local rates to be raised within the same."
He made this amendment, because the measure, as a
private Bill, was extraordinary. It was, no doubt, tech-
nically within the rules of the House. It possessed
one peculiar distinctive character of a private Bill
—viz., that it was limited in application to par-
ticular parties and to a particular locality
—and persons who wished to legislate iu that
way might, undoubtedly, proceed with such a Bill as a
private Bill. But he hoped to have the Speaker's ap-
proval of a different view of the question. It had been
the object of the House, for some time past, to
limit the number of objects fur which special
applications were made for private Bills ; and
it had passed general and comprehensive laws
of which particular localities could avail themselves by
complying with the conditions which they set out. Now,
if education was made one of the objects for which spe-
cial applications were to be made, such a course would
nut be consistent with the past proceedings of the
House.—(Hear ) If every town in England applied
fur its own particular Education Bill, there would con-
stantly he revived religious subjects which would lead to
Prolonged discussions iu the House. The reasonable way
to deal with the question of education was for Parlia-
ment to decide on the general principles of a measure op.
plieable to the whole community, and then to show
particularft localities to avail themselves of that measure
in the public policy as that of sanctioning the formation
of free schools for secular education, supported by local
rates, without a preliminary Parliamentary inquiry,
was never attempted before, and he asked
the House not to accede
to SO novel a principle
until such as •
inquiry had bsen instituted.
This was a measure tilted • g far more than the ques-
tion of levying 1,e4.1 rate„ fair the purpose of education;
it involved the great principle
how children should
be educated, whether ir, thePetaa.!f how children should
be educated, whether ju the Catholic or Protestant reli-
gion, and upon titeroi
Oa the corporation of
Salford or Manch had yet pronounced e p' -
would have
in reference
(Hear, hear) There was one neduen
on whatever,
chester for :: trisa ttßilltimicayd,
except it
tribute to the ra'es—(A laugh)._ ptirauivisblo'ndyoininiMona.—n_
to the Romeo Catholics, they c 'led only avail themselves
of the provisions of the Bill by allowing the authorised
version of thu Sctiptures to be used in their schools._
(Hear, bear.) It was not necessary for him to go through
all the previsions of the Bill, because that tees a bubj,,et
which ought to be left to the censideration of the cow_
mittee--(Hear, hear.) Ho admitted that the pro-
moters of this meet .ure wire deserving of great
credit for the trouttle and expense ‘r hieta they
had brought to the service of this mementeus
question, aid he should be sorry if their efforts ulti-
mately produced no legoilative results, but many,
disagreeable consequences would be spared to them It
the House would only adopt the course which he re-
commenited.—(l.lear, hear.) It was frem no hostility to
a plan of supporting education out of local rates that
he moved this amendment, it was not in the spirit of op-
posing rating for education that he nom pro-
posed this course, but in the present state of
public affairs it was hopeless to think the promoters
could succeed in carrying their Bill this session.—
(Hear, hear.) It was, therefore, with the view of en-
abling them to husband their funds to be used in the
future that he proposed this second course of disposing
of the question now.—(Hear, hear.) Let not
time House be led away by the petitions
which had been presented on the subject of this
Bill, because many parties had signed those petitions
under the erroneous impression that they were signing
petitions in savour of rational education.—(Hear, hear.)
The niej,srity of the people were anxious tor a Parlia-
mentary inquiry on the subject of tnia Bill—nothing
more; and he hoped the House would not sanction the
principle which the Bill contained, but agree at once to
the plan which h.- had suggested.
di Mr. ROEBUCK seconded the amendment, hut he
so upon a much narrower ground than that which
had induced his Right Hon. Friend to propose it. He
objected to the Bill being considered in the light of e
private Bill; it was fer too extensive to be placed in that
category; but if technically it was a private Bill,
he should be nisei
to hear some one draw
the line shear, ere a Btll ceated to partake ofprivate bh
This he eoatended was eprivate-
rscter.—(il hear.)
he insisted that itaostiQgohttiJht
Bill at ale Elio! therefore
stopped in limine.—(Hear, heir)
Great public prin-
cntereiples
st were
but iactunvolavelly embracedd in this Bill; it involved no private
tee great, wide question
i,
of national education and religious prejudice, and he was
at a loss to understand how the Government could allow
it to go on 83 5 private Bill.—(Hear, bear.)
Mr. WALPOLE wished to state the individual
elfeWSPlWKlthice he entertained upon the subject of the
(-4sert' e- :ee the coarse which ho desired th,,,,, ,
.....„ „reuse to
o. at • _te: le , , s7lth,( ar, hear ) Niue credit was dile to
ii,-44..., , 411*`, P l'tfih re of the Bill, not only for endeavourin
/ !et *4lfeote e.. 1 education for the people of Ainng-
be read a
Ah,i etetet -teehe,e: • t for founding their scheme, not up*tei
Cis '''
pthe'&l7% -... tiSttleibti er. but a religious basis.—(Hear, hear.) fie
modifications ---57r,_=-I--;--ftpoughr, wever, that the Bill could not
tui
-----.,' leatied time, though' with some slight na
he
14 boulcfiee no objection to the adoption of the auleadolent. '

Lieutenant-Colonel BOYLE presented a petition from
Frame to a similar effect.
Mr. J. BELL, in moving the second reading of the
Bill, presentee o petition from the President and Coun-
cil of the Royal College of Surgeons in favour of it;
also a petition to the same effect from the principal:me:
cheat men of the metropolis. This last petition iu parti-
cular, he thought, would remove the objection which
hader
beenunora(ised by the Lion. Member for Montrose, and
otla
ceesity for tuerable Members, that there was no ne-
physiciau,s h Bill. Formerly the compounding of
apothecaries; prescriptions had been performed by
rn,ent whenth that body had been transformed
into medical men,
Several
efta, duty had been taken up by the
net
~,,tttrthsrhad been made to amalgamate
this body with sc
ished body, butit was round im-
possible, and ultiely th
seoYewere termed by royal charter
into the Pharmaceutical
had at present no powers 10 Prevent persons assuming the name and functions
for such an important
thine Bill to render it unlaw-
abilities and education req_
duty. It was proposed by
ful for any person for the future to assumehout theh profession
of a pharmaceutical chemist
,iocertificate
_aaving gone
through a certain examination, and receive
, andt there
terfere
of fitness. It was not, however, proposed
of any persons with the vested interests
a clause in it exempting all persons who had sicced
wasA
embarked in the business. It was not his intention
either to interfere with the medical profession,
and there was another clause which
exempted
that body from the operation of the Bill.—(uettr.
.)
The Bill was confined entirely to chemists and drug..
gists, who were the persons who dispensed medical pre-
scriptions without belonging to the medical profession,
or acting under the authority of any recognised body.
'.Cho penal clauses of the Bill wore not of a stringent
nature, m fact their were mild prohibitions against
any person assuming the name of a pharma-
ceutical chemist without proper authority, and
the Bill itself was a guarantee to the public that
all persons belonging to the body were properly quali-
fied to discharge their duties. He was aware that ob-
jections would be offered to the Bill, the first of which
was that it would raise an obstruction to medical reform.
Now, the distinguishing feature of the measure was that
it had no relation whatever to the medical body,
and that while dealing only with chemists
and druggists, it left the medical body entirely
at liberty to make what regulations they
pleased to meet the alterations which would be made.
The second objection was, that too much power was left
in the hands of the Pharmaceutical Society, end it was
said, that the Secretary of State ought to have a super-
vision over all the bye-laws of the society, and that none
should become valid without; his sanction. The Bin
which he had introduced last session had contained such a
provision; but the then Secretary of State showed such a