The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-15 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 14.
Lord REDEsDALE took his seat on the Woolsack at
Five o'clock.

PETITIONS.
The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition on be-
half of the Bishop of Bath and Wells, praying for an
iuquiry into the system of education at Maynooth; also
a petition from a place in Lancashire against the May-

nooth grant,
Lord BERNARD presentA petitions from places in
Sornersetshire to the same effect.
The Earl of AL BENIARLE presented a petition
from Huddersfield complaining of the uncertainty re-
suiting from the apprehension entertained in the country
respecting the intentions of her Majesty's Govern-
ment with regard to the free-trade question; and
praying that their Lordships would not give their
sanction to any measure opposed to free-trade policy.
The Noble Lord took the opportunity of remarking
that the uncertain language held by her .Majesty's Go-
♦ernment on this subject had caused great anxiety in
the country. He did not intend to put any further
question to the Government on the subject,
because the answers which had been given, both
in this and the other House, had only been
of such a nature as to make " confusion worse con-
founded." Indeed every member of the Government
seemed to be of a different character—it was "tot homines
tot sententicen with them, and on every question now be-
fore the public they seemed to be agreed to differ, and
their orders were to get seats somehow or other, and
they were therefore all things to all constituencies.
BISII.OPRIO OF CHRIS FCHURCH (NEW ZEA-

The Duke of ARGYLL said that, although incompe-
tent to give a profe,sionai opinion on this subject, he
might state that, happening to be staying at Brighton
when the experiment was made upon the John of
Gaunt with Captain NVerner'a short range, ho perso-
nelly witnessed the experiment. Certainly the vessel
was most effectually destroyed, as far as that went;
but the impression left on the mind of the spectators
was very much like that described as having been left
on the minds of those who witnessed the experiments
with the long range—namely, that it was impossible to
be confident that the instrument could be made available
against an enemy; nor could they be sure that some
explosive material had not been introduced into the ship.
He was satisfied :hat the Committee would end like the
invention, in smoke, unless Captain Warner would give
up his secret, and fully and fairly state the principles
upon which he proceeds, and could show that it was
also applicable in the event of war.
The Earl of MALMESBURY thought that whilst
the Noble Earl who introduced that motion appeared
rather too sanguine on this subject, all those who had
spoken on the opposite side had thrown cold water
on these supposed inventions in a manner hardly con-
sistent with the mode in which discoveries were met
in this age of activity and improvement. He thought
if his Nublo Friend would promise their Lordships
to bring Captain Warner before the Committee, and if
Captain Warner should then, without any further hesi-
tation, promise to give an intelligible account of his in-
vention to the Members of the Committee, that it would
be a pity to refuse him the means of proving the utility
of his invention.
The Earl of WICKLOW thought it would be unjust
to call on Captain Warner to reveal his secret to the
Committee, unless some promise of reward were held
out to him.
The Earl of ELLESMERE observed that Captain
Warner laid claim to two perfectly distinct inventions,
one of which was stated not to be his own. One of
these inventions had been tried by the Austrians at the
siege of Venice, where it might have succeed bad not a
current of air caused the shell to fall into the sea instead
of into St. Mark's Place. He thought that the long
range of Captain Warner was worthy of being inquired
into by some practical persons whom their Lordships
might appoint.
Earl TALBOT said that he should have no hesitation
whatever in producing Captain Warner before the Cona-
mittee, and he felt certain that Captain Warner would
there make any disclosure that their Lordships might
think that he ought to make.
Lord VIVIAN thought that it would be quite im-
possible for their Lordships to conduct an inquiry of this
kind without the assistance of some scientific men.
Earl GRANVILLE said it would ba very easy for
the Government to appoint some persons to make the
inquiry. Their Lordships' influence would be diminished
if they undertook to inquire into questions of this sort,
with respect to which they were hardly competent to
arrive at a conclusion.
The Earl of MALI',IESBURY hoped that if a Com-
mittee were appointed, it would be composed principally,
if not exclusively, of such of their Lordships as were
conversant with military matters, and were competent
to judge of the statements of Captain Warner. He
wished to guard the Government on one point, and to
state distinctly that he could give to Captain Warner no
sort of promise that this explanation on his part would
be followed by any of those rewards which at the first
he appeared to have expected from the Government.
As far as the Government was concerned he must appear
before the Committee and give his explanation on the
understanding that no promise or bribe was held out to
him to reveal his secret.
Earl TALBOT repeated that he was perfectly ready
to produce C iptain Warner before the Committee, and
he did not want the Government directly or indirectly
to part with a single sixpence. The inquiry would be
wholly of a judicial character.
The appointment of the Committee was then agreed to.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

LAND) BILL.
The Bishop of OXFORD moved the second reading
of this Bill, the object of which he explained was to di-
vide the present diocese of New Zealand into two sees,
the population of that island having been found too large
for one see.
After a few words from the Earl of DESART, the
Bill was read a second time.
The report en the Disabilities Repeal Bill, with amend-
ments, was received and agreed to.
On the motion of the Earl of LONSDALE, the Re-
payment of Advances (Ireland) Acts Amendment Bill
passed through Committee.
CAPTAIN WARNER'S LONG RANGE.
Earl TALBOT should not have ventured to obtrude
this question on their Lordships, but for the excitement
on the subject of the national defences which pervaded
the public mind. The subject of the long range had been
long before their Lordships, having been under inquiry
on various occasions since 1832, when a Commission ap-
pointed by the Crown, consisting of Sir Richard Keats
and another distinguished officer, reported in its favour.
It was atter the year 1832 that he (Earl Talbot) became
cognizant of this invention, and he soon felt convinced
that is was of such a nature as at all events to entitle it
to be inquired into. He had witnessed several experi-
ments at Wandsworth, which proved most successful.
Soon atter that a Committee was appointed to examine
into the subj, cr. Sir Howard Douglas, a very eminent
man in his profession, sat upon that Committee, but he
went into the investigation with his wind made up that
the invention was all moonshine. He (Earl Talbot)
had a very different opinion. Great difficulty
was experienced by Captain Warner in securing
a proper trial. The lase Mr. Soames put a
ship 01 310 tons bundens, the John of Gaunt at his
disposal. The vessel was built of teak wood and in
sound condition, and it was taken down to Brighton
to be operated upon. There it was publicly blown up
by Captain Warner in the most effectual manner.
Captain Henderson and Captain Dickeson, R.N., who
were both present on the occasion, subscribed to a cer-
tificate certifying to the success of the experiment.
Another experiment was subsequently made in his (Lord
Talbot's) own neighbourhood, to show that Captain
Warner's missiles could be thrown to a considerable
distance. Commissioners appointed by the Government
also witnessed it. It was true the shells did not go in
the direction that was wished, because the wind was
unfavourable; but the Commissioners, without examin-
ieg the spot where they tell, went away, and hastily re-
ported that the experiment was an entire failure. He
(Earl Talbot) contended that it was not a failure, and
that a thing of that kind ought not to be pronounced
upon until it had been tried more than once or twice.
Captain Warner still endeavoured to press the matter
upon the attention of the Government, but did not re-
ceive any encouragement. Lord John Russell was un-
derstood to have stated in a private room that the
Captain was at liberty to take his invention where he
liked. The matter slept for some time longer, when
Captain Warner wrote a letter to Lord Palmerston,which
wals afterwards handed over to the Secretary of State
for the Colonies, stating that if the invention was
taken to the Cape of Good Hope, the Kafir war could
soon be put an end to through its instrumentality. The
offer, however, was not embraced. Sir George Murray,
the late Master-General of the Ordnance, had drawn up
a document setting forth the manner in which the inven-
tion ought to be treated between the Government and
Captain Warner; and if that arrangement had been car-
ried out, the question would have been settled long ago.
It might be said that he (Earl Talbot) would have done
better if, instead of making this motion, he had gone to
the Government and asked for an inquiry. Now he
confessed that he had had quite enough of applications to
the Government. If he went to the Noble Earl at the
head of the Government he would tell him that he was
not a professional man, and that he must refer him to the
Master of the Ordnance. It he went to the Master
of the Ordnance, that Minister would refer him
-tiCehief;and if he applied
would receive in reply one
letters, stating that he must decline to meddle
ttooof
hhitissh
pithy
hrCayooer h
oft n ro-hi nt
with the thing unless it was properly brought before
his notice.—(A laugh-) He (Earl Talbot) was anxious,
therefore, to urge the matter on the attention of Parlia-
ment; and he bettered that if the invention were adopted
by the Government, it would save the country the ex-
pense of a militia force.—(
Laughter.) He made this
statement advieterly, although it appeared to cause a
smile. Captain Warner had received very great offers
from foreign powers, but preferred an arrangement that
would secure the advantage of his discovery to his native
country. He (Earl Talbot) would only say, in conclu•
sion, that he was anxious, as tar as in him lay, to have
the matter thoroughly sifted and investigated. All he
asked for Captain Warner was an inquiry—a thing which
ought not to be denied to any man. His professional
experience induced him to believe that by rejecting Cap-
tain Warner's overtures they might subject themselves
to the loss of what might prove the salvation and the
The Noble Earl sat down by
Committee be appointed to inquire
intomdeo detente
moving
gee
that
a Warner
rh a
ni
esse or 010
Select
r y. t
inventions,
and the several reports con-
nected therewith.
The Earl of HARDWICKE said he did not rise for
the purpose of opposing the motion of his Noble
Friend, but he wished to know how he desired to con-
duct his proposed inquiry. The country had had this
subject before it fora number of years, and it had been
examined by scientific men and by Committees ao-
pointed by the Ordnance, and and also by the Ord-
nance combined. All these investiga•
failed
to elicit from Captain Warner
Lions,
however,
rAdmiraltyor, had
any information with
regard to the nature of his inven-
tions unless a large amount of money was first guaran-
teed to him by the Government. What he, therefore,
wished to know was, whether, if this inquiry was insti-
tuted, Captain Warner himself would be prepared to
give perfect and thorough information on the subject of
the investigation ; because if he was not disposed to lay
before the Committee the mode of conducting his opera-
tions, with the drawings, plans, and instruments them-
selves, the inquiry would be utterly and entirely useless.
or even
(Hear, hear.) If Captain Warner came forward to
stipulate that he must receive the promise of 400,0001,
no possible use in appointing the Committee. But, in
the hope that he would be ready to give the necessary
information, he (the Earl of Hardwicke) would not op-
' the downs—(A 12,0001., as he had done before, there could be
pose the inquiry now asked for.
Lord DE ROS said that he had gone to Winchester
Downs, by the authority of the Commander-in-Chief,
to see Captain Warner's long range tried. He passed
the night, and a very long night it was—out upon
of magic circle, by the aid of torches,
was
inflating
his
balloon. The Captain made one excuse after another
ex-
hausted, and, in short, they waited till broad daylight =agog,
the balloon was When it was nearly ready,
A laugb)—while Captain Warner, in a kind
got ready.
must take his glass to see if there were any cattle near.
Captain Warner said it would be very dangerous, and he
With one delay and another their patience got quite
longer, and he told the Captain that if he did set his
balloon off it would be very dangerous. Captain War-
ner then speculated about what it would have done if it
and he (Lord De Ros) could not atop any
had gone off, and wished him (Lord De Ros) to say that
if it had gene off it would have done its work; but he
refused, telling him that he did not attend there to be
convinced by his arguments, but to see the effects
tha hisf is
operations. He then returned to town, satisfied
was all an evasion. If Captain Warner was really so
mis-
chief of
t hiso
anxious to have his invention tried, way did he not take
lon
n
a steamer and go to the rock of Ailsa, where might drop
did he not go to
Sbileness, where he would have several miles of clear
strand for his operations?
The Earl of ALBE liteRLE said that Captain War-
wwithh doing any
yout
ner had had every facility afforded him for conducting
his experiments, but they had all proved failures. The
opinion that Sir Howard Douglas had given ie evidence
was, that Captain Warner was labouring under a hallu-
cination on this subject.
The Earl of MIN TO said that this invention was not
new' It was not the invention of Captain Warner, but,
as far back as 1803 a gentleman of the name of Scott
conceived that he might destroy the French &ills in
,
Boulogne harbour, by means of shells delivered from
balloons. By
than Captain Warner's, Mr. Scott adjusted the time of
a very ingenious method, more ingenious
the falling of the shot to the fllght of the balloon. That
invention was examined by the Admiralty in the tear
1804, but the Government of that day did not think it
lie (Lord Minto) actually
worth while to adopt it.had
a model of Mr. Scott's invention in his own house at
this moment, and he had offered to show it to captain
Chltds and coptata

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 14.
The SPEAKER took the Chair Bhortly before Four
o'clock.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lards' amendments to the following Bills were
considered and agreed to:—
Aberdare Market and Slaughter-houses.

Bradford Piece Halls.

Dadley Waterworks.
The following Bills were read a third time and
passed:—
Abbey Tintern and agswear Roads.
Battle and Robertebridge Road.

Blyth and Tyne RailvveY.
Claussen's Patent Flax Company.
Lambart's Estate.
Lancashire and Yorkshire and York and North Midland

Railways.
Leeds Waterworks (No. 2).
London (City) Improvements.
Londonderry Bridge (No. 1).
Londonderry Bridge (No. 2).
Middlesbrough and Gaisbrough Railway.
Preston and Garstang Road.

Railway Passengers Assurance Company.
Sharples and lloghton Road.
6hillingford, Wallingford, and Reading Road, and
Shillingford Bridge.
Shields and Morpeth Roads.
Yeovil and Ilchester Turnpike Trusts.
Belfast Custom House, &c.
The following Bills were considered and agreed to,
and ordered to be read a third time:—
Chelsea Waterworks.
Great Western, Shrewsbury, and Birmingham; Shrews-
bury and Chester; Shrewsbury and Hereford; Birken-
head, Lancashire, and Cheshire Junction; and Here-
ford, Ross, and Gloucester Railway Companies.
Greenfield and Shepley Lane Head Road.
Kirkby Stephen and Hawes Road.
Leeds, Bradford, and Halifax Junction Railway.
Leek and Hussy and Middlehills and Buxton Road.
Stockport and Marple Road.
Wakefield and Denby Dale Road.
Worcester and Hereford Railway.
CORK IMPROVEMENT BILL.
On the motion for the third reading of this Bill,
Colonel CHA.TTERTON proposed that the second
reading be deferred until Tuesday next.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH, as Chairman of the Com-
mittee that had passed the Bill, resisted the amendment.
After a brief discussion, the amendment was with-
drawn, and the Bill was read
ONS. a third time and passed.
PETITI
Mr. KERSHAW presented several petitions from
Lancashire against the Militia Bill.
Mr. DUNCAN presented a petition from Dundee
against the Maynooth grant.
Sir JOSHUA WALNISLEY presented a petition
from the corporation of Oldham against the Militia Bill.
Mr. E. DENISON presented several petitions from
the West Riding against the Maynooth grant.
Sir R. H. INGLIS presented two petitions from
Jamaica complaining
of distress, and praying for pro-
tection agaiust the competition of slave-
grown sugar.
Mr. REYNOLDS presented a petition from the Ro-
man Catholic inhabitants of Dukinfield, praying that
Roman Catholic charities be exempt from the operation
of the Charitable Trusts Bill.
Mr. HUM : presented a petition from Trelawney,
::
in Jamaica, praying the House to take measures
to supply the island with sufficient labour to enable
the sugar planters to compete with the producers of slave-
grown sugar.
Air. J. S WAR r presented a petition from Newark,
praying the House to inquire into the ceases of intem-
perance with the view of discovering a remedy for the
evil.
Colonel FREESTUN presented a petition from the
Roman Catholic inhabitants of Radipole, Weymouth,
praying the attention of the House to the better admi-
nistration of the Charitable. Trusts Bill now before the
House. The petitioners state their belief that, there is
an Act of Elizabeth in the statute-book, for upwards of
a century and a half, which has fallen into disuse. They
therefore pray that the said Bill, as it now stands, may
not pass into law.
Mr. GEORGE DUNCAN presented a petition from
the memeers and adherents of the Baptist Church as-
sembling in Rattray's-court, Litigate, Dandee, against
the grant to May nooth.
EDUCATION IN IRELAND.

Sir HARRY VERNEY wished to ask what was the
state of the book question connected with the Irish
Board of Education; whether the plan suggested by the
Committee of the rish Board to the Treasury, and the
recommendation in Mr. Lingen's letter, appended to it,
was likely to be carried out?
Mr. HAMILTON said this was a very difficult matter
to deal with, as there were several conleting interests
at stake, but the subject was under the consideration
of the reasury, and he hoped in a few days to commu-
nicate to the Chancellor of the Exchequer a plan by
which those difficulties might be surmounted.—(Hear.)
SMUGGLING IN IRELAND.

•
Admiral BOWLES wished to ask the Secretary of
the Treasury, whether any report had been received
from the officers of Customs at Dublin, of landings of
contraband tobacco within the limits of that port; and
also, whether smuggling in Ireland had not increased
since the withdrawal of the revenue cruisers employed
there formerly ?
Mr. HAMILTON said that it certainly did appear
from reports which had reached the Treasury that
the landing of contraband goods had taken place
almost within the port of Dublin. No less than 2,000 lbs.
of tobacco was seizA on the 30th of last month near
Dublin, and a boat was found deserted at Kings-
head which had evident marks of having
contained tobacco. There was no reason
however, for supposing that smuggling on the coast of
Ireland was on the increase.—(Hear, hear.)
QUARANTINE LAWS.

Mr. HUME wished to ask whether any reports had
been received from ,the Sanitary Congress at Paris, to
consider the question of quarantine; and whether any
and what modification had been made as respects the
laws of qiiarantine?

Mr. HENLEY said the report of the convention
which met at Paris bad been received. It proposed a
modification of the quarantine laws, but none had yet
taken place. The subject, however, was under discus-
sion, and he entertained considerable hope that a satis-
factory result would be ultimate arrived at.—(aesr.)
PATENT LAW AMENDMENT BILL.
Mr. COW AN wished ti know whether it was the
intention of Gorprnment to persevere with this Bill?
Mr. HENLEY said he should endeavour to induce
the House to read the Bill a second time,, and then to
refer it to a Sdect Committee, to see if it could nut be
put in a fit stare for pissing into a law.—(Hear, hear.)
.
DESERTION OE SEAMEN IN AUSTRA__lvera-
-141A.
Mr. MASTERMAN wished to know it the
(3,
merit were prepared to adopt any mesiures to Provcot
the desertion orAustralia,seamt,n in A,tralia, as such a practice
had become an evil of the greates w
s t
now
magnitude,
hips
and a large number of eq. from wAus of
actually laid up in the Australian ports
bonds.

. . .
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON thought the Roane would plying the ballot they might pricish any particular
feel that the cpostion pat to him by his Honourable catitay they liked by levaieg in that county by means
Friorid related to a portion, and not the least inn, of the ballot the whole number of men deficient under
portant portion, of a most extraordinary emergency the volunteer system, and permitting the other counties
lvhich had arisen in our Australian colonies, in eonse- to 'cal exmnpt
quence of the recent discovery of gold there, an ems r- Mr. WALPOLE said that by the 17th clause credit
gency which, it was hardly necessary for him to state, would h, given to each subdivision of a enmity for the
bad commanded the most sarious attention of her Ma- number of men raised in it by voluntary enlistment, and
jesty7s Goveminent.—(Hear, hear ) In putting the it the ballot were enforced, such subdivisions and
question his Hon. Friend had alluded to the number of parishes as had raised the full number of volunteers op-
ships the crews of which had deserted, and perhaps it portioned to them would be wholly exempt from the
would be satisfactory to the House if he were to state the operation of the ballot.
exact position of the matter in Port Melbourne Mr. GOLTLBURN said that the words " fit and liable
. .

when the discoveries of gold had been on the
largest scale.—(Hear, hear.) On the 6th of Ja-
nuary there were 35 ships in Port Melbourne, the ag-
gregate numbers of the crews being 816, and of these
417 had deserted. The moat pressing representations
had been made upon this subject by the Governors
of New South Wales and Victoria, urging
upon the Government the absolute necessity of rendering
some military or otber assistance under the extraoroi-
nary state of things which had arisen; and only
within the last few days a dispatch had been
received from Victoria, pointing out the great
evil that was resulting to the commercial
interest of the colony from the system :ot desertion
which was going on.—(hear, hear.) Under these cir-
cum,,tances it hid been dtcided by the Government to
send two companies of infantry to Sydney, and four to
Melbourne, where the greatest quantity of gold had
been found.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The financial
state of these colonies was extremely prosperous, and
Give nment therefore felt that they had a right to call
upon them not only to provide for the pay and support
of the troops, but also to secure them the necessary bar-
rack accommodation.—(Hear, hear.) Government
had also thought it right that the assistance of
a man-of-war should be appointed to Port Melbourne,
and that very day he had sent a dispatch to the
Governor of that colony, informing him that ar-
rang, ments bad been made for placing
one of the men-of-war in those seas at his
disposal, and directing the Governor to put himself at
once in communication with the officer commanding
the ship.—(Hear, hear.) The Governors of both
colonies had conducted themselves with much
wisdom and great vigour, and he really did
hope that the means to which he had referred would be
found sufficient to check the evil complained of.
Mr. GLADSTONE wished to know it the Right
Hon. Baronet could inform the House whether he had

the power of securing a guarantee for the payment of
expenses by the colonies?
Sir S. PAKING TON said the continuance of the as-
sistance would be made dependent upon the payment of
the expenses.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME did not think the force proposed to be
sent out would have the eff,ct of preventing desertion.
At present there were between 3,000 and 4,000 bandloom
weavers in Lancashire who received enly 4s. a week, and
he thought the Government ought, in order to supply the
deficiency of labour in the colony, to propose some plan
for paying the expenses out of some of them, on condi-
tion of their agreeing to work as shepherds for a period
of ayear. .

Si; J. PAKINGTON said, in reply to the observa-
tions of the Hon. Member, that lately the colonists had
sent home sums of unusual magnitude for the promotion
of emigration from the mother country. The colony of
Victoria had transmitted between 160,000/. and 170,000/ ,
and New South Wales 70,0001. He was now in cum•
munication with the Emigration Commissioners with
regard to the most beneficial mode of expending the
money.—(Elear, hear.)
METROPOLITAN INTERMENTS AND WATER
SUPPLY BILLS.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to know when the Go-
vernment intended to lay the Metropolitan Interments
Bill on the table; also whether it was their intention to
submit the Water Supply Bill, which had come down
from the Committee upstairs, to a Committee of the
whole House.

to serve" having been omitted from the Bth clanie, it wee
nece9sary that they should be left out in the clause be-
fore the Comtni tee—the purport of which was simply to
enable the Crown to alter the limits of the several sub-
divisions of counties, hut did not fix the quotas in those
subdivisions.—(Ht an)
The words " with reference to the number of men fit
and liable to serve in the militia," were then struck out
of the clause to make it agree wi;11 the one preceding it;
and the clause as amended was ordered to stand part of
the Bill.
Oo clause 10, providing for raising the militia by vo-
luntary enlistment,
Mr. WALPOLE said that in its present shape the
clause wls somewhat ambiguous as to where the volun-
teers were to be raised. He proposed, therefore, to in-
sert words providing that the volunteers should be resi-
dent in the c un'y in which they were raised.
Mr. MOW ATT complained that there was no recog-
nised principle or deva on which any given number of
men were to be raised in any county whatever.
Sir G. CLERK apprehended that the proposed limi-
tation would turn out to be very inconvenient. It was
highly expedient, no doubt, that the persons who were
to serve should be resident within that portion of the
United Kingdom in which they would be required to
serve; but he thought that they might be residents either
in the county in which they were raised, or the counties
immediately adjoining.
Mr. W. PATTEN said that the restriction would ope-
rate most injuriously upon the county of Lancaster,
where in consquence of the high rate of wages, fewer
volunteers would probably be raised than in any other
county in England._(gear, hear.)
Mr. OS BORNE—As the Bill now stood, was it not in
the power of the Secretary of State to raise the whole
force in one county, if he so thought fit?
Mr. WALPOLE—CIearIy not, in his opinion.
Mr. CARDWELL wanted to know, supposing that

owing to the higher rate of wages in one CClinty; they
should not get enough of volunteers in it, and that in
another county from the wagers being much lower, they
got more volunteers to present themselves in it than
they required there, would they supply the deficiency of
the one locality by the redundancy of the other, so as
to dispense with the necessity of inflicting the ballot?
Mr. WALPOLE was prepared to make a provision to
that effect. But even if the full number should not be
obtained at first—say not more than 40,000 men—he
thought they might be sure the ballot would not be
exercised.
Mr. M. GIBSON said the answer of the Home Se-
cretary convinced him of the insincerity of the Govern-

went in the whole matter. He contended it was uncon-
stitutional to come to Parliament to ak for an indefinite
and vague force, to meet an indefinite and vague danger.
Ministers, in dealing with the important question of the
defences of the country, should not be guided by any
considerations of the popularity or unpopularity of any
particular measure; but they should, on their responsi-
bility, make the proposal which they thought the circum-
stances of the country required, and stand by that pro-
posal, whether popular or not, provided it was dictated
by a sense of their duty.
14,-)rd PALMERS roN said the Right Hon. Gentle•
man (Mr. Gibson) seemed not to have remembered the
elt,:ct form of the resolutions put' in the army and navy
estimates, and seemed to think they were compulsory
resolutions upon the Goverment to raise and maintain 6
certain number of men. It was no such thing. The

Mr. WALPOLE said he would lay the first Bill
before the llot.ue early next week, and that he would
submit the latter one to a Committee of the whole Henze.
ACCIDENTS IN COLLIERIES.
Mr. WAKLEY inquired whether the attention of the
Government had been directed to the recent colliery
accident in South Wales, and whether it was their in-
tention to bring in any measure on the subject?
Mr. WALPOLE said, as soon after the accident took
place as possible special instructions were sent down to
the Government inspectors to inquire into the whole
matter. The inquest was appointed for the 19th of
May, and he thought it would be premature to say more
on the subject until the verdict was given.
RAILWAYS (IRELAND) BILL.
In. reply to Sir J YOUNG,
Mr. HENLEY admitted that this Bill was one of very
great importance, but he did not think that in its present
shape it would receive the sanction of Parliament. He
thought there was very little chance of its being passed
this session.

resolutions of the army and navy estimates fermed an
authority to the Government to raise a body of men not
exceeding a certain number, but they formed no oblige'
tion to raise that number of men so expressed. There-
fore the objection of the Right Hon. Gentleman as to all
indefinite number applied to the army and navy esti-
mates its well as to tee present measure. The argument
of the Right Hon. Gentleman went to this—that the
Government were neglecting their duty if they did not
enforce by ballot the raising of the full number of men'
Let that be distinctly understood, that his Right Bon;
Friend was the quarter whence came the strongest and
most urgent call upon the Government to have recourse
to the ballot.
Mr. M. GIBSON was not in favour of the ballot;
but he contended it the Ministers of the Crown thought
the ballot was right, and that the force was wareted,they
ought not to be influenced by considerations of populs"
rity or unpopularity in dealing with the question. it
was their duty to take upon themselves the responsis
bility of the proposition, and incur the necessary odium
which attached to Ministers proposing and carrying int°
operation the ballot. He was arguing, not as to what
c curse he himself would adopt, but as to the course
which Ministers, with the opinions which they en:
tertaiued on the matter, ought to adopt. As for himself
he opposed the ballot, because he believed it improper to
have compulsory military service. He declined, there'
fore, the construction which the Noble Lord pat uP°l2
his words.
Lord PALMERSTON observed that the Right gone
Gentleman had not negatived his (Lord Palmerston s)
proposition. The Right Hon. Gentleman was urging °I/
the Government, who were carrying the Bill through itjs
stages by majorities of 100 every night, that if they be'
any faith in their own views they should enforce the
ballot. The House would judge what would be the
effect of the negative of his Right Hon. Friend upon
the affirmative of his (Lord Palmerston's) proposition.
Mr. B. OSBORNE iequired if the bounty would be
bond fide 61., or would the soldier's knapsack, kit, and
necessaries be furnished out of it, as in the army?
Mr. COBDEN said it was a totally unprecedented
thing in the army or navy estimates to ask for 50.000
men, or any other number, and then say they would be
content with 30,600 or 40,000, orally other lesser own-
ber of men, and the reply of the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Secretary for the Home Department had gone fl,l'
to ,justify the opposition tbat was made to the B 1 s
There was no earnestness or sincerity in the plan
which had been proposed. The whole thing was a frau-
dulent pretence throughout. When a reduction of sr'
emu:wets was demanded, a loud outcry and a false_
alarm were raised to justify the maintenance of those
armaments, and also a demand for an increased force.
It was the Noble Lord, however, the Member for the
city of London who was originally to blame fort
this measure. It was the Noble Lord in the firs_
instance who had rendered the passing of tin
Bill possible, and it was the opposition '3!
the Noble Lord afterwards which had rendered
opposition to the Bill impossible.—(Cheers and laughter.)
It was the Whigs, and the Whigs alone, that were t°
blame for the measure, and it was the Whigs that the
country would bl-me for it, for the Tories of themselves
would never have dared to make such a proposition.
And let theta see what it was they were inflicting 0p°,13
the country. He and those who concurred with blur
had been laughed at when they pointed out some of the,
consequences of such a measure. He held in his hallo
an account taken from the Wiltshire Independent of e
recent meeting of the yeomanry •cavalry of that county:
at Devizes, which having described the appearance of
the men end their being well officered by the marquis
of Bath, Lord Somerton, Mr. Sidney Herbert, see, went
aftertpthh,.
reeeipree
on to state that they had been examined by Lord G.
Paget, Lieutenant-Colonel of the 4th Light Dragoosfe
and then proceeded to relate what followed after the
exercises were over. The concluding paragraph
t
stated that it was a matter of much regret that
escaped from the surveillance °I
many of the members of this regiment bhOUI;
ganchvdeitr:sdg.ri
repeated
praeevpaeut
etcdaobnladenudmc tsaeyndsnt
eerm— themselvesattihca.dt ist
duringainr
baan
emosttehsewere
jel °l44;t
kept up by them in the public places, a great many °f
them parading the streets of the town, beating kettles
and tea trays (L ht ) •
- auger —ringing the bibs of evert
door, breaking the windows end trampling upon the
flower-beds et the houses of the peaceable inhabitant?'
and that their conduct had been so bad that the inhabe.
twits expressed themselves by no means sorry tha
exercises had closed. The paragraph added, indeed, thate
the matter was much regretted by the officers sod t''s,
respectable members of the re giment. Now, that Ive
the conduct of a body composed of farmers' sons sod Le
sons of tradesmen; but by this measure they were 01
to bring to the public-houses, not members of this awe'
respectable class, but labourers and volunteers from P.:
vagrant classes. What, then, would be the scenes
were likely to witness on bringing such bodies of In's.
together? Was not that an important consideration. a:
to the mischievous social effect of the demoraliill
scenes that were sure to be enacted? Let it not be sal::
; then that they who opposed the measure were by (3°1,7
o throwing an
y doubt upon the conduct of their co
strymen. Astny in
to '
the compulsory clauses, as the Govern,:
ment themselves admitted that they would not be bin
ing until January next, he hoped they would see that..l!
was the wiser and the juster course to postpone the 03"
sure altogether to a new Parliament.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Hon. Gentleman
having asked whether it ever happened that a Minis or
proposing a vote fur the army accompanied that Poirht
sition by a statement that under circumstances it °IA
happen that the Government should not raise the
r;3,
number of men voted, he (Lord Palmerston) bad t°
ply that the fact had so occurred and might occur agate'
blishmeut whichoiththeye
in the beginnieg year, proposing
t,
a
Nothing would be more likely than that a Grevernwetnas
taros,
al fer
would be necessary, would accompany their proP°s 000
authority to raise any giien number of men—say 100 e
or 150.000—by a statement that if, in the course "
of fowl
year, it should appear they would not require the.' he
nder a catirciluituuarsy es
number of men, that full number of men should n°l or
raised; and there would be nothing extraordinarLd,
unparliamentary in making such a statement. The
speaking from remembrance, he thought cases svoillhese
found where statements precisely to that effect haueehie
made. The Hon. Gentlemen stays that this is a vv.
tt27,
measure, and that upon the Weigs alone must re'sl,l„.
merit or dt merit of that mfmture. As an amble morn
her of 'het, reely, he (Lord Palmerston) ttii,tikf..„ of
Hun. Gentleman meat,, cordial) for his atirob•twbe'vse
their having had the boldness—he should say, the so
of dtv)—tit *depth gso requisite a measure, se a
have
far from feeling it as a matter of reproitch to Lord
w
on,,trib, tu-s.crds oriOnaring that meat•ure, be,ent
P.,trw rt-t,,0) :alt exc “nngly proud of the cornpl7,,s„,
which the Hon. Grefiilemau paid hire. Then tb
Gt ntletnau complained 'hat the House was hiughl,ng
It
blur ;r..,1hi4 friend (Hear,
hear.
and latiehfer.),.. did
tA, as not wholly hot that the 11-univg
ail, :or • w.e a min.t sii,gut•r arid remarkably 070W'
ve
course—(Laughter)—chose Host. Gentlemen ha
~.,pea
sued in respect to the measure. First, they comPiThesti
of the enormous tyranny of the ballot draggOS