The Sun.
London, England, 1852-04-27 00:00:00

EVENING, APRIL 27, 1852:

T TTE SI) A Y,

eta big, for the intercession of the public, . a few facts
np.ia a metter of some interest.—(Hear.) The benchers.
r f tee fear lons of Court hed, tor a considerable time,
devoted the neat anxi as attention to the subject of legal
ed leation, snd they bad at 1-ngth unautmnusly egeed upon
a plan which they believed would bighly -benefisili
to the profession and the public.—(Hear. hear.) Pro-
festorehips or readerships Were to be ..stablished in the
cliff-scut societies to lie iihersily enduwed, and lectures
were to be given, and private class to be formed for
thef
to b°
Lui(z students Wore they were
called Hear, hear.) would be
bar.—(Hear,
raurc
necessary hereafter for a student to obtain s cord&
cate of b wing attended a course of three lectures,
or to be in a position to prove that he
purpose
othfeil"
had satisfactorily passed a public exatniaation, and,
for the purpole Of enceureging the students to sub-
mit themselves to these examinations, testimonials were
to be given to those who were found to be the most
proficient.—(Hear.) He need not enter into any uci-
mite details of the proposed change in the system, and
he hoped that the explanation he had given would con-
vince the HOP. Gentleman and the public that the
benchers of the Inns of Court were evincing a laudable
desire to promote legal education.
LOSS OF THE BIRKENHEAD.
Mr. DRUMMOND wished to ask a question on the
subject of this ill-fated vessel, and in order to make his
question intelligible to the House it would be necessary
for him to mention ;that her Majesty had the power of
granting compensation to the amount of 80/. To illustrate
his meaning the Hon. Member stated that an officer
on board the Birkenhead was the son of a very poor
clergyman, who had totally lost everything he possessed,
to tha amount of 3001, and it was quite impossible for
him and his friends to make the same good.—(Hear.)
The question he wished to ask the Secretary at War
was, whether there was any ground fur hope that the
Queen's Ministers would recommend to her Majesty to
grant any compensation, by promotion or otherwise, to
the officers who survived in the Birkenhead, for their
heroic conduct and total loss of their property in that
miserable shipwreck? _
Major BERE3FORD was >happy to have this oppor-
tunity of giving his approbation and that of those who
acted with him to the conduct displayed by the men
and officers who wore present at the loss of this unfor-
tunate vessel, more especially as the troops on board
were not old soldiers, but recent and raw levies, who
were going to juin their regiments; and it showed that
that discipline so effective on the field could
be acquired with a long period of drill.—(Hear, hear.)
The question of the Honourable Member seemed to re-
solve itself into two parts, one as regarded promotion,
and one as regards compensation. As regarded the
question of compensation, he had only to ssy that the
War-office would bo at all times ready to distribute com-
pensation upon the most liberal principle, according
to the regulations contained in her Majesty's warrant.
All these waiters, however, were usually brought before
a board of officers; and although, in the majority of in-
stances, the maximum Compensation was restricted to
801., yet, in special cases like this the board had power
to go beyond that sum if the circumstances r.quired
it,—(Hear. hear.) He could only say that any funds
placed at his dispossl for the purpose should be most
' cheer!ully distributed. With regard to the question
of promotion, it did not rest with the War-office, but
was vested in the hands of the Commander-in- Clacf,
who bad always "-need a desire to recommend for her
Majesty's cousidsraqon all officers who dietiegui,hed
themselves OEI occasions like that referred to by the
Honourable Meinhor, and in four cases of ship-
wreck where officers had distinguished themselves
in saving life or otherwise they had received regimental
vromorioa, or had been appointed to staff situations.—
(Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he had only to mention
tnat a subscription had been entered into for the relief
of the widows and orphans of those who perished in
the Birkenhead, and as the name of the highest person-
age in the land stood at the heed of the list he could
only bcpe that when the
proper time arrived the gene-
rosity of the Ilousa would be invoked with success in the
tame direction.—(ilear, hear.)
GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH BILL.
Sir UEORGE PECHELE. ete.d this Bill stood for
committal to-night, it was number six on the paper, and
be wished to kno whether the Nable Lord at the head
of the Woods and Works intended to bring it on, as he
intended to make some objections to its clauses?
Lord JOHN MANNERS said it certainly was his
intention to bring it on, sand if the House gave him an
opportunity he should go into Committee on the Bal.

MILITIA BILL.-- ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Mr. HODGES said, before the adjourned debate was
resumed, he wished to make some explanation as to a
statement which he made on Friday, and which ap-
peared to excite some merriment. The statement
was that five hundred men deserted from a
militia regiment to which he belonged; and he
certainly Poll into a considerable error, for he had
received this morning a letter from the adjutant of the
regiment, from which he learnt that the number
amounted to 88I.—(A laugh.) The battalion consisted
of 800 men, and during the time it was in existence
2,044 men had volunteered to join the regular army.
Mr. MOFFATT, in resuming the debate upon this
Bill, admitted that it was of too great importance to be
mixed up with party questions, or to give rise to crirni-
nstion on one side or re-crimination on the other. The
question was one of the most vital that could be brought
before the House. They were not to consider whether they
should have one or another Militia Bill, but whether the
defences of the country were in an efficient state.—
(Hear, hear.) Now, had they sufficient facts before
them to justify passing such a Bill P It was said
that! people out of doors had been lulled: into a no-
tion of security as to the defences of the country; but
that was not to be wondered at when it was known that
for forty years thirteen millions had been spent
annually in maintaining them.—(Cries of " Hear,
hear.") The latter of the Duke of Wellington had been
referred to as a reason for the present _Bill, but the
proposition of that distinguished personage was to enrol,
not to embody, 80,000 of the militia. Where did the
danger of an-invasion come from? Was it from Prussia,
Austri', Russia, or Spain. Ha thought no one would
venture to show that an invasion was, to be apprehended
from those quarters. There ceuld oe no deubt that
France was the country meant, but ifassoaiptpwreahse
duecdb,
gements of the
itteeardtoofsnisie:tkarohuintgifthaenyeoroenaolnidaienaglearrrwaa
couniry—if danger did really menace them, they
ought to increase the navy and make it more
efficient. Our mercantile marine alone was a safe-
,ra aykiin' g think
g the
militia, case hoc?
nd be
guard almo,t against invasien by the united navies
of the world. Our steam marine was nearly twenty
to one, as core pa" d that of France.
We had no le,s. than 1.30(1 ete
-teers, large and small,
ila
n c
out, might be made meat
and
en-
tailingich,
a cost eslimazed at so large a sum
emccfa outti.'ll7freoo f l'
di.d nuteatn7b b
upon the country. When the militia was called out in
1804, the expense incurred amounted to no less a sum
than 6,000,0001. In his opinion volunteer forces would
enitfibcthtl'ence in the maritime superiority present measure proposed to (to.
He had be far more . fficient and less expensive, and would beecles
not disturb
h society,
ena
re
of this country, that be saw no necessity for :he Bill,
which he should now oppose, believing it would be in-
effective, mischievous, and vexatious.
Lord tiEYMOUR believed it WUS the opinion of the
majJrity of the House that some measure was nrcie,
eery ter increasing oar national defences.—(Loud
cries of " /leer, hear.") Two Governments would not
have introduced a Militat Bill without having been
convinced of the exi-tenuo of such a necessity.
Now, he asked hiarself this erleetten If the
present Bill was rejected what chance had they of any
no
oh passes?—(Hear.) Clearly
propose any measure
either for a compulsory or voluntary militia. In this
Government einutvr:douwidedveannsdurPe3BtBo"
Bill they had both the voluntary and compulsory principle,
and those who were in favour of either ought
to support it.—(Hear, hear.) All the high autho-
rities on the subject hid admitted that such a
Bill was necessary, and he was astonished to find parties
in the House not only anxious to defeat the Bill,
but also to defeat the Government.—(Hear, hear.)
Was this Bill to be defeated because the Noble Lord
(Lord J. Russell) was opposed to it—because he thought
a local and not a general measure was necessary. He
thought that neither he nor any independent Mem-
ber of the House ought to take the responsibility on
themselves of throwing out the measure, He should
vote for the second reading on the understanding that he
should be at liberty to move amendments in Committee.
General REID thought he should commit a groat
breach of his public duty if ha remained silent on
so important a subject. As a military man, he looked
upon the .measure with very little satisfaction;
but as the Government had stated that they had pro-
posed it after consulting the highest military au-
thorities, he should not refuse his sup-
port to the Bill, though he gave that support reluctantly.
He thought this kind of force would be a method of
providing for the safety of the country which would be
most acceptable to all parties, because it would not be a
perma neat burden ou the resources of the country.
Mr. ELLICE did not consider this so much a Militia
Bill as a Bill for raising a subsidiary force by voluntary
enlistment. Now, considering that employment was easy
to be obtained all over the country, ho was afraid that,
supposing this princeile of voluntary enlistment were
adopted, there would be an uMortunate competition be-
tween the two services ; and as the regular army found
it rather difficult to obtain recruits, he did not think
there would be much chance of obtaining a suffi-
cient number of men for the militia service. He
necessity of some increase in the military de.
was no: willing to argue the question a to the
fences of the country, but if we were to have
;nises,
such an
had
dn
so
min:teas,t considerablehen eixtlyc,
rei
er
ntaci,n, certainly
att
li oughtas to be
effected in the most economical manner possible. He
sixoient orsereveivoce.n
IrotilicioecnaszTpdfor
and he remembered that this country had paid
to nolitim"ethatdaya7B great
savingbe
military
''g
ri rgabetg et en tws do; obuyr cvonl n iaetst.el4Ftiutvilin
instance,
inopr rou really.l
or Canada
e( ourr
cwotaloresp‘obeso:prhi troops walwel
nreeerr were scattered, 'trebuianythingrmtaknneyeeopl
else.
yeari eotg' rau vrrw.isr'drei oeeetbunhmnbstser weal (It:hen::
5 000,0001. or 6,000,0001. worth or °Menace stores
there, and a large proportion of our artillery
which, so far from being of service, had probably only
bad the effect of "thing observations to be made with
respect to our fears of a fortigu attack ribiots would
not otherwise htare been made.—(Hear, hear.)
At one time lee had intended to propose a Committee
of Inquiry to ascertain what were our existing means of
defence, for really it appeared to him that the House
had no settled information upon this point.—(Hear
hear.) The House hid no estatliehed military
authority to guide them, and, in fact, it
seemed to him that the House was now
legislating in the dark. Admitting, however, that the

country did want more defences, he hid no faith in
the effieiencv of Militia B.lls, and he for one
hoped the House would pause before it adapted this
eepen-ive measure.—( Eisen)
C non I LINDSAY said the hest evidence of the no-
ce,sity of en eugnentetioti of our de'ensivo force was
to be found in the revo Militia Bills proposed by two
separate Governments. fieving corrected some errors
into which some previous speakers had fallen with re
gerd to the amount of eff•ctive force at the disposal of
this country, the Hen. and Gallant Gentlemen eeid he
was decidedly opposed to adding to our home forces by
recalling troops from our colonies. The que-tiou of
protecting our colonies ought to be considered abstract-
edly, and quite apart from any plan for forming a
militia.—(bear, heir) As a soldier, of course, he
should prefer 20,00 regularly disciplined msn to 80 000
militiamen;. but ?hen he wanted troops for our gar-
risons. Surely, if they were to take the course of in-
creasing the standing army, 8,000 men would not be
enough to add to it. Less than 20,000 men increase
would not be sufficient to pat the country in a proper
state of defence. Well, then, they should next con-
eider the expense of their standing army. The total
number of men voted for the standing army was
101,837. For the purpose of ascertaining the expense
of such army let theta deduct the officers, who cost the
country nothing except their pay,—(rl laugh.) The
number of non-commissioned officers and men would
then stand stand 97,418. The total pay of these men
amounted to 1,866,2571.; their clothing was 287,3791.
t0te1„2,153,636/. Now, the pay and clothing of 20,000
additional men in this proportion would amount to
472,6411. The money required to raise these men,
being 51. for each, would amount to 100,0001.—total,
572,641/. But where were they to put these 20,000
men ?—(Hear, hear.) They must provide new barracks
for them, and also devote a large sum for good-conduct
money, for hospital_ accommodation, for the movement of
troops, for .coals..candies, great coats, and for the sub.
sequent incomes to the pensioners. A sum of 65,0001 or
70,0001. must then be added to the expenditure. Much
hal been said in reference to the volunteer system. From
what they had lately seen of. the enthusiasm of the
people, he believed that in the event of danger they
would find plenty of volunteers, but he was afraid they
never could be relied on as an efficient body. The
Duke of .Wellington was .opposed to the volunteer
system for the defence of the country. In 1811, in
one of his dispatches to Lord W. Bentinck, that illus-
trious man wrote to this effect :—" The enthusiasm of
the people is very great, but I would never trast any-
thing to .the eethusiasm of the, people." Now every
objection that had been urged against the Bill before
the House would apply equally to gib Bill of the Noble
Lord the Member for London.—(Hear, hear.) One of
the objections of the Noble Lord to the measure was
' chat the bounties would induce a great *number of bad
characters to join the militia. He (Colonel Lindsay)
was of opinion that it might; - but they would probably
get a much large. number of bad characters by the adop-
tion of the substitute syse m.--(llear, bear.) He
' thought it was objectionable to pay the whole of the
bounty money at once ; but if they distributed it over
certain period of time they vveuld be more likely to se-
cure proper steady men. These men might be drilled
by good sergeants at such periods of the day as would
not interfere with their ordinary occupations. He would
also suggest the propriety of drilling them by companies
and never by battalions. He would support the second
reading cf. the Bill.
Mr. Cr RDWELL thought it was their duty to rap-
port the second reading of the Bill. Under any circum-
stances, when the Government asked the House to con-
sider a measure which they declared to be necessary in
order to preserve their shores from invasion, tbey wouln
be undertaking a solemn.respoasibility if they offered any
opposition to it. How much greater would that respon-
sibility be on this occasion, when they considered that
there had been so great a concurrence of opinion between
the present and the prec.ding Government as to the ne-
cessity of examining their national defences carefully, in
order to the piscine them in the position in which the
People of this great empire had a right to expect that
they should be pisced. Is bad been proposed to increase
the standing army, and another preposel was that they
should withdraw a portion of their troops from their co-
lonial possessions in order to secure to the people here a
larger proportion of military protection. Now bethought
that this was a most reasonable proposition, and he hoped
that it would meet with due attention in the proper
quarter. But that was a measure which could not be
accomplished in a day. It must occupy a considerable
period of time to accomplish it.—(Hear, hear.) When
they invested some of their colonies with considerable
Dowers of self-government, he thought it but fair that
they should be required to provide for their own military
protection, and thereby save this country from paying for
it. But these were all reasons why they should go into
the consideration of this Bill. They were met by an
argument—and there is certainly a general impression
prevailing oat of doors—that they were about subjecting
this country to a system of forced conscription to be
carried on by the instrumentality of the ballot. He did
not think atter so many years of peace that they would
ever succeed in carrying such a systein into effect. In
Mr. Norman's able pamphlet, in which he reviews the
burdens of this country compared with others, the
writer says—" France is ground down by a system of
military conscription which must be regarded as a large
and unascertained pecuniary tax. England, however,
is totally free from a military conscription." He (Mr
Cardwell) understood that it was intended to work
this measure by a system of voluntary enlistment;
and the probability of a forced conscription was
to be the last resort, which it was not intended to
carry into operation. Whatever this country might
be disposed to submit to under the severe exigency
of immediate danger, he was of opinion that
there was no possibility in times of peace of inducing the
people to submit to anything like forced conscription.—
(Hear, hear.) What was the step they were now about
to take ? Surely they were bound to consider how the
law at present stood. The 42d George 111., o. 90, was
an enduring law. It stands upon the statute-book, and
was in permanent operation. For nearly twenty year.
they had annually dealt with it by passing a law sus
pending its operation for twelve months; and within
that law they had left a power which might be exercised
by an Order in Council to suspend the suspending law,
and to revive the enduring law. If, then, they t °feared
this Bill upon the second reading, the House of Commons
would find itself placed in this predicament : the Mi-
nister ,
would 344, tld you, upon my responsibility
that this kingdom is not sate from foreign invasion. M 1
nrsclecessor hes told you the same thing.—(Hear, hear.)
You, therefore, cannot dispute it. Yeti have, however
detail.
of to go with me into an inquiry into the
of a Militia Bill I have proposed in order to reined)
mmihtitgeeeto urywin luse,
this evil. If you thought that Ind'
Committee
vr.no nut strong enough, in the
_
mt
Bill you might, if you wished have moved
such
alterations as you tiepins ht proper, butli altogether
tnste ad set
your d ,iag so you rejected my Bill
•
upon the second reitchng-
shill not, therefore', ask you
for an %uncial suspension
Bill, because I do not thick
.n
that our stior, s are safe from foreign v mon. e„hai
of. Ghorge 111., and I seal
put is operation the etetuee
eenstitu7LesredsoponnostibliiikietvsUrceh
proceed by compulsory conscription throughthe means
of the ballot. If your
proceeding cannot help it.
flilitia Bill. I, therefore, will
with you for rejecting my will
not hula myself responsible for the adoption of the other
ne yourselves have driven me,"
alternative into which y
said then that out of resps
—(fleas, hear.) an
the advice of suc es ; et
to
the Crown, acting ise"u
aret and independence of ;he
nets—out of re:peet
by that jealousy of nonspulsor
country. and also b=ond to :.dept tree, Y eon - - seceee
hetlptionohey
awe" h r ) If the were • reading
of thisy status el by
they
might be able to establish a mode by
this spirit
eery arrgementa could
which prelimi an be made for the
and at the same time
esenisation of a militia,
proper o
the danger of compulsory
guard against conscription.
They would thus be placing the Minister in a state the,
would conned him to be answerable for the safety of the
country.
Under such circumstances he could not tenon-
cite it with his conscience to do otherwise than vote for
the second reading of this Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CHAPLIN reminded the House of the necessity
of affording every facility for the transport of troops
from one end of the country to the other. The Presi
dent of France and his Government were taking the
most effectual measures for the completion of such rail-
way communication, by branch lines from Rouen to
Caen, and from thence to Cherbourg. Although a Bill
bad been passed in 1848 for a line of railway from Sa-
lisbury to Exeter, in censequence of several untoward
circumstances that had pubsequently occurred, it was
never carried out. If the Government would but con-
sent to advance 550,0001. at 3 per cent, interest, for
thirty years, he pledged himselt to place such unques-
tionable security in the hands of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer would •
as satisfy
him of its validity.—(A laugh.)
Admiral BERKELEY said it was generally agreed
upon that the defences of the country were not in a
satisfactory state. The Noble Lord the Member
for Tiverton (Lord Palmerston) said that there
were two measures open to the House to adopt :
one was an increase of the standing army—
the other was the calling out of the militia.
But
he was rather surprised to find it never struck the
Noble Lrrd that there was another plan which might be
resorted to—namely, a force to be raised by volunteers.
This might be done at one-half the expense of either of
the other
and would prove much more effective
for the object they had in view. The Noble Lord spoke
of the French being enabled to raise 50,000 or 60,000
men in Cherbourg, but he did not tell the House how
these moo were te be transported across the Channel.
Now there were, no doubt, a great many difficulties io
the way of increasing the defences of the country.
Every Gentleman who had spoken on the subject ap-
peared to have a favourite nostrum, of his own to pro.
pose. An Hun. Gentleman connected with the railway
interest of the country hsd
•prep 'net hia nostrum,
which he, no dotost, thought most vatuaeleehat thry
had as )et censidered. Nothing. was mire ridiculous
than to magnify the resources at , our comnitod. It
was quite a, absurd as the pseic that hal been lately
throteu over the country.
• The propositi It he was
ab,,at, to submit was one that would not: cost the
r. !entry 200,01)01 lie would only ask rho_ House
tO vote
fsr the navy 4 000 men and 1;000 buys. By t;tvit,g
t 451,
number, in andition to what the Admiralty has at pees
sent, he salute underak- to say that they would have a
fleet of 30 ate im,rs in the Channel, none of which would
be under 900 or 1,000 tons burden, art
ned with the
most valuable guns nee and aft; and six other
of a larger class. These would steamers••
present a formidable
force before which he would defy
any enemy to stand.
He would tell the Noble Lord that it would take 50 or 60
vessels to embark those men he spoke of :1). • g ready
for action at Cherbourg, ern
g. an' it would take as many
more yeast la as he proposed to equip to protect them in
this Channel- T hey should recollect they were not
talking of the common occurrence
of war, bat they were
to consider how they could best guard against a surprise
and an attempt to invade our shores while they were
undefended.
Consequently, the attempt mast be

by steamers, and by nothing r Ise. The enemy must
get together 90 or 100 steamers .more they dared to
venture across the Channel With such a fleet as
he proposed there was no British effi .er fit for his eitee-
tion aeo would not be etre, to thoarey ghee force the
enemy before it owe! t ff,ct a landing upon the English
shores. fle should like t-) see them attempt to d:esm-
bsek upon on: sh area in the face of such a force.—
(Hear. hear.) Firmly and honestly he was convine,d
that If they would place such a force as he had describd
in the hende of the Altuirelty, they need not fete any
surprise, nor even that the coast would be invaded.
That force he wished to see kept sOwals at hand, end
that no Government should be permitted to leave the
country without ar. Da that, and the desired end would
be attaieed at a much cheaper rate than it could be by
the establishment of the militia, and at a cheaper rate
than any farce they could hope to raise by the present
Bill. Having said this much, it was now his duty to de-
clare that he snould vote against the measure before the
House. Io doing so, however, he knew he should be
taunted by the Hon. Gentleman opposite 'bathe had voted
for the Bill of the Neble Lord late at the head of the Go-
vernment.—(fitier, and a laugh.) But circumstances were
notachanged—(An ironical cheer)—and so changed that
he believed Hon. Members opposite would be inclined to
admit them as a valid argument. lion. Members of the
Government said that, notwithstanding what their prin-
ciples might be, they would abide by the decision of
the country at the approaching elections. Up to the
period when the Noble L rd's Bill met with the fate it
did at the hands of this House be was not aware of any
certainty of his own constituents who had presented
petitions against the Bill. But since the measure of
her Majesty's present Ministers had been under consi-
deration, the table of the House had been nightly
covered with petitions against it, and his own constitu-
ents alone had presented no less than eight. In op-
posing the Bill, therefore, be was only following the
example of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, and bowing to
the will of the country.—(Hear, hear, and laughter) In
conclusion, the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman assured
the Government that, if they would endeavour to per-
suede the Rouse that the plan he had suggested was
the really national, constitutional, most proper, and
wisest mode of raising a force to defend the Channel,
they might rely upon having his support in the task of
carrying it into effect
The Hon. A. DUNCOMBE said that as he chanced to
be the only member of the Berard of Admiralty at that
moment in the House, he bad to ask the indulgence of
the House while he addressed to it a few observations
upon the present Bill. It was admitted on all hands that
the defences of the country were not in either a satisfac-
tory or safe state—indeed, they had had that admission
on Friday night from the Noble Lord (Lord J. Rueaell),
though strangely enough, the Noble Lord adduced the
fact as a reason for not supporting the Biel.—(Saar,
hear, and a laugh.) It appeared to him (Captain Dun-
combe) therefore, that the Noble L rd when in power,
had proposed and supported a Militia Bill from a sense
of duty; but that he now opposed it for the sake of
party.—(Cheers.) Still, however that might be, he
could have wished that the Noble Lord—powerlul as
he cias both iu this House, and tee ceuevey—h .d nor,
or the moment, at all events, obtruded pan ty peiticiples
into the consideration of a measure like this,- but have
left it to be calmly and dispessionately considered in
Committee,—(H. ar, hear.) it: believed than. by fel-
lowing the two pilot balloon,, which the Noble Lord
sent up in the early part of Friday evening, he *mild
soon find himself in shoal water.—(Hear, hear.) And
he was sorry to observe that the Gallant Admiral was
going to shape his coarse in the same manner; for sure
he was that no person would be less anxious to get into
shoal water than he.—(Chee-5..) Many persons said they
had a right to look to the navy to protect our shores,
and that before an invading force had an opportunity of
landing, the nary should beheld responsible tor making
mincemeat of theni.—(flear, hear.) To this ho was
quite inclined to agree, provided we bad at the present
moment a powerful and efficient navy at our diepoaat.
That our navy was efficient, he admitted; bat that it
could efficiently perform all the duties which were re-
quired of it in protecting our commerce arid supressing
piracy in various parts of the word, and at the same
time afford a powerful and efficient def eice for the
country—that he was not prepared to admit.—(Rear,
hear.) Neither could he subscribe to the doctrine put
forward by the Gallant Admiral on a recent omission,
with reference to the possibility of lining the 13hannel
with powerful war-steamers at signal distances from
one another. But even admitting that we could.
field the vessels, • he (Captain Duncombe). doubted
very much if they could find the men.—(Rear, hear.)
He regretted very much that the Gallant Admiral, who
had been so recently connected with the naval affairs of
the country, had not left as a legacy to his successors in
office the 4 000 men and the 1,000 boys of whom be had
spoken, instead of that crude and ill digested measure. a
naval reserve; for he (Captain Daucombe) foresaw
great difficulty in carrying out the one, but none in car-
rying out the other. Having made these remarks, be
had only further to say, that however much they might
prefer having a large, a powerful, and efficient navy at
their call, be believed that, in the present temper of the
country, they could get a greater amount of force at a
less expense by adopting
the present Militia Bill.
Mr. M. MILNES thought it the duty of every. Ron.
Member to give the Bill a Lair consideration, hoWever
unpopular it might be asserted to be out of doors, and he
could not conceive how any Hon. Member who had
deemed it his duty to support a similar measure when
introduced by the late Government, could refuse to give
his assent to the principle of tne present Bill.—(Elear,
hear.) In principle the two • Bills were alike, and in
matter of detail the present had, iu his opinion, the
advantage of the late Bill.—(Hear, hear.), The Bill
of the Noble Lord was more stringent, more likely to
create discomfort in the people. He did not support
the Militia Bill because he thought there was danger 01
invasion. A militia was sot a tome likely to repel 'sue
ceasfully such an invasion.—(Hear, hear.) The rett,ons
for establishing a militia were of a larger and deeper
nature. The progress made in Europe since 1815, when
peace was established, had tended by no means ,to in-
crease the security of this country. He found that all
hose points on which England was likely to come, te
')4:Tvceerner,
yacontroversyperiod
thanatde
rdedimibs
disputes
tsehbsee t hallto continuedrfeo itignnd powersthtastduophn tendency
to the maintenance of peace; but the extravagant hopes
of the Liberal parties had bred a reaction, and the cone
om,ere_tnhth,s,osteshtiGrioinfuyvg,ehronumtntnhtes wmanole t ocf.usEe,tiarie,:piley.
sequence now was the establishment of despotic Govern-
s tjTdh ei
etneensds
tietriitit
to England. They -could not exist in
tro,perity without displaying (sod p,i-haps exercising)
hat hostility. The prosvec.s of this country, in
its relations to foreign powers, could not, there-
fore, be considered satisfactory; and the House was acting
eisely tu lay the ground by prepatatione which were,
neither expensive, nor interfered teo greatly with
ime acid labour of the people, for seen a permanent
.orce as might act when neceesary as a military reserve,
and at the same (Lee in some degree keep up in ,the
minds of the people the daily cousciousnese that 'they
alight be called upon to risk their lives in defence 0. ,
heir home and country. A militia force 'ref 40,000
would prove more efficient than an addition of 8,000 wen,
to 010 regular army. The first expense
wily bewould
,uudoulot
great, but would ultimately be much de ceeased
lip thought that there was no reason why the youth or'
the ceumry, eep dally in the manu securing' district',
should not be military disciplined and organised, and
orove as orderly when ureter arms and afterwards as the--
army or the yeomanry.—(li=ar, hear). Such ettecipliie
veal, in his •Ppinion, leave them bev.etethen it bound
hem.—(Sear.) There were some inconeistencies in the
Bill, but the principle of the Bill ought not therefore to
be opposed. Experience and practice would show wino
modifications were necessary. He should not give his
vote in favour of the second reaaing.—(Heer, hear.)
Mr. BaRNAL contended that it wee not a consistent
argument to say, that because Hon. Members had vete
to allow the Bill of the late Government to be brought
in and read a firetrtime, therefore they ought to vote for
the second reading of the present Bill. For one, he was
tree to confess that he did not feel himself braid to sup-
port the measure which was introduced by the N etale
Lord the Member for London. Far from it. And that
ne hesitated not to declare at once.—(Rear, bear.) He
was sorry to hear Mr. Cardwell produce what he might
call an argument in terrorent, when he said, that if tans
Bill were rejected the Government would be
justified in
coming down and proposing the continuance of the
existing enactments relative to the militia,. and putting
them in force, and instituting the ballot throughout the
country. He (Mr. Bernal) thought that any Govern-
ment would pause before it resolved upon incurriog the
responsibility of taking such a step ea that.-:(Rr.)
What were the arguments which were produced in favour.
of the principles of a Militia Bill? that of the Hon
Member fur Pomfret (Mr. Wino)) was, that the whole
of the Governments of Europe were combined agates,
us. Now was thi4, he asked, an illusion or a romance?
(Hear, hear.) He, for one, was inclined to think it We.
both—(Cheers)—for scarcely a fortnight had elapsed
since assurances were given to this Rouse that the most
friendly spirit and the most amicable relations existed
between the Governments of Continental states and the
Government of this country.—( Hear, hear,) Was tha.
true, or was it not? If it were true, what then became
of this argument for .the establishment and maintenance
of a body of 80,000 militia mete? —(Cheers from the
Radical benches.) Further, ho would appeal to those
h couldww ehrebeteha cetCirr sainted
with
the
Hon. Members
2p al r
dt
aoyf s Thee s
mu bejne et,
toporassiinolnen thatiinn InBomor.
professional
patties, or in fact to do anythitas more thus to shoulder
arms, and go through the
goose step. To him it wad a
manifest delusion to
suppose that they could. Then who
were the men with whom they proposed to fill the violet,
of their militia? Did they suppose that they wet':
men of high,
refined, and honourable seeeiment-r
Whatever the gallantry of the soldier. he (Mr. Bernet)
feared that the argumentum ad crumenam wax usually .
one of the . eMPtf'd a war, principal arguments .which L
to sorve as a ,meter either here or in aey other part- of
the world. Did lien. Momnb,.rs think ran et, with a
61. bounty, they would be able to get a description of men
who would tell into rank in the second year after they
had enlisted? He doubted the tact, and was very much
afraid cheat they might be obliged to have recourse to a
atatutary enactment, providing that the 61 paid es
bounty to a man who did not make hisnrspearnoce should
be recovered as a debt in one of her Maj sty's courts of
law.—(A laugh.) If we Canoe to the chance of an ac-
tual invasion, he believed that we should want n..ither
bounties nor compulsion in the shave of a conscription to
obtain the necessary force; but he did not think that the
levy of 80,000 men, as prepoeed
_either by the Bill of
the late er that of the- present Government, would be a
salegtiard against such an even'. In the last war herr
Was is force which lined our coast, and whatever objec-
tions were raised to that force, he freely conieased that
it was a useful free in many respects. He alluded to
the Sea Foncibles. Trained to the use of great guns,
and armed with a loag pike to be used in defending
their guns, such a hybrid force as that might in case of
'Unger' bp view ahng 'IIIQ 00484 and act Wits defence ,