The Sun.
London, England, 1864-09-22 00:00:00

and so on. Of course, that would be an objection to the
mode proposed by Admiral Belcher, as it was prettty much
to all the modes hitherto adopted. To make ships quite
invulnerable would only bo to make them unmanageable at

Admiral Sir E. BELCHER said he agreed with the sug
gestion of building an iron vessel and then coating her.
Papers were also read in this section by Mr George
Fawcus, on " Improvements in Scale and other Ladders,"
and on " Improvements in Folding Doors;" by Mr Zerah
Colburn, on " Steam Boilers;" by Mr George Glover, on
" Instruments for the Measurement of Gas." Mr James
Williams made some interesting experiments on the elas-
_ _

ticity of iron ; and Mr H. C. Sorby, F.R.S., exhibited
and described a number of microscopical photographs of
various kinds of steel.
This concluded the business of the Section. There were
several other papers in the list to be read, but the Chair-
man said they must be taken as read.
The committee of this Section having been invited to see
an iron girder broken by the testing machine (on which a
paper was read yesterday), a-number of the members pro-
ceeded to the works of Messrs, Stothert and Pitt, in this
city, and examined the machine, by which the successive
deflexions of the beam were accurately taken until it finally
broke with a loud report at the calculated weight.
Mr Fairbairn, and other members of the committee, ex-
pressed approval of the machine, which they considered to
have advantages not poEsessed by any other.
The girder weighed locwt., and broke with 17 tons.
There has been a grand floral fete to-day at the Sydney-
gardens. The flowers and fruits exhibited were choice and
beautiful, the attendance being large and fashionable. The
Scots Fusileer Guards' and Hanoverian Bands performed
some excellent music.

The Eccles Find of Six Thousand Silver
Pennies,

Since this find on the 11th August little has arisen re

specting it worth publication. Notwithstanding the posi-
tive and peremptory claim of the Treasury, it turns out that
the coins really come to the Crown, in right of the Sove-
reign, not as Queen, but as Duchess of Lancaster.
When the Crown first created the duchy and granted to its
first duke what are termed jara regalia, the royal charters
conveyed to the Duke and hia successors, amongst other
legal privileges and prerogatives, the right to all treasure-
trove which should be found within the ambit of the duchy.

We believe that this claim of the duchy has been recognised
by the Treasury ; but the latest that we can learn of the
proceedings in the arcane of these departments of State is,
that the coins remain in the Treasury, though the right to
their possession is in the duchy. With all this, however,
the public have nothing to do ; nor should we notice it, but
for the bad moral effect it is causing in Eccles and the
neighbourhood, more than a month having elapsed since
the coins were found, and so far no reward has been given
to the finder, a poor young working man, disabled by acci-
dent and out of employment, while he is the sole support of
a widowed mother. The general feeling is that he would
have done rightly to appropriate what he found to his own
use, This feeling is to be regretted; but it is natural under
the long delay. People will say that the Circumlocution-
office is no myth, and that "how not to do it" is practised
with success in some at least of our State departments. It
should be remembered, however, that this is the season of
annual holiday for heads of departments; that London is
empty, and officials are away on the moors, or at the sea
side, or on the Rhine, or the Alps ; and that consequently red
tape and routine in London are creeping their slowest, if
not sleeping their soundest. .

But leaving this subject, there aro one or two hitherto
unnoticed points in this " find," which may be briefly
touched. First, as to the probable time of the deposit.
The coins found were mainly English, of Henry 11. or
perhaps both; but a few were Irish pennies of King John,
and a few Scottish pennies of William the Lion. Thus the
three kingdoms contributed something to this hoard. Now
Ruding and other authorities suppose that John's Irish
coinage was note truck till the year 1210, when he went into
Ireland. Before that year, then, no Irish pennies of John
could have found their way into a Lancashire hoard. To
account for the presence of a few Scottish pennies in this
Eccles deposit, it may be stated that John built a fort at the
mouth of the Tweed, which William I. of Scotland pulled
down, The quarrel between them on this ground was
made up by John undertaking not to rebuild the fort,
on William the Lion paying to him the largo sum of
15,000 marks (£10,000). If this amount were paid in the
chief coin of circulation at that period, it would sufficiently
account for the presence of Scottish pennies cf William
the Lion in the Eccles hoard; and it also limits the

deposit to some time in the thirteenth century. But the
later limit is better fixed by the English coins, all of
which (about 6,000) have on the reverse the short double
cross, which is known to have been superseded in the
coinage of Henry 111. in 1247, by the long cross, carried to
the edge of the coin with a view to prevent clipping. As no
long• cross penny is found in the Eccles hoard, it must have
been placed in the ground before they came into circulation.
The above facts, then, limit the date of its hiding in the
earth between the years 1210 and 1248.
Many questions have been asked as to the value of these
tins tulle wuera Lutti.e.inily, according to the mode
of estimation. There is a fancy or factitious value, as where
persons in the neighbourhood offer a liberal price for a few
coins as obj eta of curiosity. Thus the finder of the Eccles
coins was offered las for half a dozen pieces.
Again, there is what may be called the antiquarian or
numismatic value of the coins, a fluctuating and uncertain
amount; for coins of a particular reign may be very rare
and fetch high prices, till some large find occurs of that
type, which at once renders them plentiful and cheap.
Now there have been several finds of these pennies of Henry
which have reduced their value considerably for the cabi-
nets of collectors. The chief of these was at Tealby, in Lin-
colnshire, in 1807, the number being 5,700 ; but of these
most found their way to the melting-pot of the Royal Mint.
So large a number as that in the Eccles hoard will certainly
lower the price in the numismatic market, unless they have
thelike fate. Lastly,there is the bullion value,which can only
be roughly approximated. The whole weigh 21b avoir-
dupois, or say 231 b troy. At 5s the ounce or £3 the pound
troy, the bullion value would be about £69 or £7O.
But this Eccles find is an important one, not for its money
or other value, but for its providing a large mass of material
for evidence towards the decision of a question of some im-
portancc—not a mere numismatic or arch ab °logical question,
but one relating to the history of the coinage of England in
one of its obscurest periods. It would be out of place here
to discuss this question in detail, but a few words may put
cur readers in possession of the main point. No coins of
any English mint exist either of Richard I. (Ccsur de Lion)
or of his brother and successor John ; and collectors who
aim at possessing a complete series of English coins from
the Conquest have been accustomed to represent these two
kings by the Liaglo-Gallic pennies of Richard I. (struck
chiefly in Poitou), and by the Irish pennies of King John,
of which a few, are found in the Eccles board. No one
can account for the absence of English pennies of these
kings. In the reign of John 16 English mints existed.
Again, as to eho English pennies bearing the words " Hen-
ricus Rex," there is nothing to show whether they were of
Henry 11. or Henry III„ or of both. Mr Hawkins, ofithe
British Museum, and other eminent numismatists, attri-
bute this type of coins chiefly, if not wholly, to Henry 11. ;
Mr Sainthill, the Rev. Assheton Pownall, and others think
them partly of that King and partly of his grandson Henry
111. Mr W. H. D. Lonestaffe, F.S.A., goes further, and
says in effect that both Richard and John continued to use
the type of penny struck by their father, and that even
John's son, Henry 111. continued to do the same till 4247.
This hypothesis would account for the absence of the names
of Richard and John in coins struck at English mints
during their reigns. The only way of ascertaining the
truth is by an extended examination of coins of " llenricus
Rex" with the short cross at reverse. Their reverse legend
always contains the name of the mint and the naoneyer, as
" Abel on London," " Paul on Canterbury ;" and by a very
careful examination of Exchequer records and other docu-
ments, it has been ascertained by Mr Longstaffe, that some
"Ilenricus" coins were struck by moneyers, who did not
live in the reign either of Henry 11. or Henry 111., but in
that of Richard or of John. For these reasons it is very
desirable that, before the Eccles coins are scattered or
melted, they should be examined by some competent nu-
mismatist, conversant with this question. Tho Crown au-
thorities have had their attention drawn to this subject.
For the issue we must wait.

ATTEMPT OF A MOTHER TO MURDER FOUR
CHILDREN.—The utmost excitement prevailed on
Monday in the neighbourhood of the Victoria Docks in
consequence of a rumour that a woman had made a most
desperate attempt upon the life of four of her children.
The would-be murderess resides at 17, Bell and Anchor-
cottages, near to the Victoria Docks, her husband, named
Philbric, being employed on the Pier-head, adjacent to the
docks. It appears that Mrs Philbric, who has hitherto
borne the character of a kind parent and affectionate wi e,
prepared the breakfast foi her family in her usual manner
about 7 in the morning ; but immediately on her husband's
departure she desired the eldest child, a boy about 10 years
old, to go at once to bed again. The boy had no sooner
got into bed than she rushed at him with a poker and struck
him on the head. She then procured a razor, and, in spite
of the violent screams and struggles of the poor little fellow,
she succeeded in inflicting a wound in hie throat. Although
shockingly wounded, the boy contrived to escape into the
street, and by his cries for assistance alarmed the neighbours,
several of whom rushed into the house and succeeded in
preventing the wretched woman from murdering the three
other children. The boy was at ones conveyed to the
Poplar Hospital, where ho lies in a precarious condition.
Mrs Philbric was removed to the West Ham Union under
the charge of the police, and the medical men called in pro-
nounced her to be insane.

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