The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-24 00:00:00

EVENING, MARCH 24, 1852.

deration; but, my Lords, this is no hasty conclusion of I
mine. I have no doubt some of my Noble
and Learned Friends will think that I have not
provided in the meet satisfactory manner for the solu-
tion of this question; but what I propose to provide for
is this, that where witnesses, without fraud, and as part
of the same transaction, without quitting tho house or
place where the will is signed, do sign a will after see-
ing the testator sign it, all due solemnities being observed,
that shall be held to be a valid will. Now, my Lords,
no doubt it may be said that this would open a door to
some fraud, or to a substitution of one will for another.
My Lords, those are not the dangers after all which we
have to avoid. It may be said that because the dangers
have not occurred these laws have prevented them. But
the law has not stuck at fraud; the law has destroyed a
man's will, which was open to no substantial objection.
The law has not prevented the frauds which, whenever
the parties had been determined to carry them into exe-
cution, they have been able to do so in spite of it. I do
not say that they have all been successful—men have at-
tempted it skilfully, and it may be successfully in some
cases, and they have taken care to adhere to all those
rules which would destroy men's wills, in attempting to
impose the solemnities required. Now, my Lords, I
must state in conclusion that if any of my Noble and
Learned Friends object to either of these two latter
clauses I will not retain them. But if I should have
the concurrence of my Noble and Learned Friends to
the first clause, which I heartily expect, I shall ho
very well content to have the Bill paned in that
shape; if not I shell listen with respectful attention to
whet they have to suggest. But, my Lords, I cannot
promise that I shall not, upon a future occasion, bring
into your Lordship? House a measure founded upon the
two last propositions, which may then be more fully con-
sidered. And, as I am addressing your Lordships upon
the subject, and speaking of future measures, I would
draw your Lordship? attention to a measure as to wills,
which may require the attention of this and the other
House of Parliament. The statute of the first of Queen
Victoria for the first time imposed the same solemnities
upon the disposition of personal estate as in the time of
Charles 11. (with variations) were imposed upon the
disposition of real estate, and it was said, how very ab-
surd it is that you cannot dispose of half an acre of
land without three witnesses, and yet you may dispose
of 100,0001. of personal estate which is even fluctuating
without any witnesses at all. Yet, people do not desire
every day to alter their testamentary dispositions; but
they make variations in the disposition of their personal
estate by codicil or by legacy to be payable out of their
personal estate, however large it may be; but now no
man can make the slightest alteration in his will—he
cannot give 51., nor alter a certain legacy, without call-
ing in two witnesses. It was said of a great man, that
the faults which we denounced in him died with him;
but I might say with greater truth, that owing to the
difficulties which the law throws arouni them, many
codicils die even in thinking. These are points, how-
ever, which we must consider hereafter. The Noble
and Learned Lord then concluded by moving the second
reading of the Bill.
Lord BROUGHAM agreed with his Noble and
Learned Friend that at all events the first provision of
the Bill should be passed. With reference to the pre-
sent state of the law some test must be taken. It had
been decided that if the witnesses were in a position to
be seen by the testator that was sufficient; and it was
difficult to see how the law could be otherwise construed.
He recollected that a question arose on the Duke of
Roxburgh's will, as to whether the witnesses signed on
a particular table in the adjoining room, where they
could be seen by the testator, or not, which was decided
by a court of law. He did not object to give the whole
Bill a second reading; but if there were doubts as to the
second and third clauses, it would be well to withdraw
them for the present.
Lord CRAN W ORTH did not ob3ect to the first clause;
but he thought the other clauses required further consi-
deration.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGII thought that all the
statutory provisions having reference to wills should be
embodied in one Act of Parliament.
The Bill was then read a second time.
THE ARGENTINE REPUBLIC.
Lord BEA.UMONT rose to put a question to the
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs relating to the
present state of the Argentine Confederation. It was
not his intention to criticise the policy of former Go-
vernments with regard to this Confederation, but simply
to obtain information as to the present state of our rela-
tions with that quarter of the world, and to press
upon the present Government the absolute necessity
of commencing negotiations in that part of the
world, and not to lose the present golden opportunity of
extending our commercial intercourse, and to attempt to
establish there a permanent peace. The Noble Lord
then proceeded to contrast the progress of the two great
races, Anglo-Saxon and Spanish, in the great continent
of America, and attributed the inferiority of the latter
to the propensity of the Spanish Government to
exclude as much as possible all European intercourse.
The independence of the Banda Oriental had been
established by a treaty between Brazil and Buenos
Ayres, in 1828, which independence it had always been
the policy of the English Government to maintain. In
the year 1830 war existed between France and Buenos
Ayres, and during the period of the war the French used
to avail themselves of the independent country of Monte
Video, in order to make it the basis of their operations,
and carry on their hostile• movements against Buenos
Ayres. General Oribo happened to be the President of
Monte Video, and he objected to that country being
made nao of by France. A revolution arose—ho need
not say how—in Monte Video. General Oribe Was
driven from there, and General Rivera was appointed in
his stead. Ho joined the French in their operations, and
an invasion of Buenos Ayres took place, ;n which he as-
sisted. At that time, as well as since, there raged two
violent parties in the Argentine Confederation, going by
the names of Unitarians and Federalists; and so hostile
were they that not a single proclamation of the Govern-
ment was issued without being headed Death to the
savage Unitarians." There was no doubt that the Uni-
tarians from Buenos Ayres went over to Monte Video,
and carried on their hostilities against Buenos Ayres,
for, after the French had left, General Rivera continued
the war, and invaded part of the Argentine Con-
federation. General Rosas availed himself of Oribe,
who was then in Buenos Ayres, placed him at the head
of a large body of men, and sent him to meet General
Rivera, who was completely routed. Oribo continued to
press on the Banda Oriental, claiming to be the legiti-
mate President; ho roused the whole country of Uru-
guay; he surrounded and besieged tho town of Monte
Video, and it being thought necessary to interfere, we
sent out Mr. Gore Ouseley, as the successor of Mr. Man-
deville, and the French Government also sent out a ne-
gotiator. They went to Buenos Ayres, but could not
get Rosas to adopt any terms of peace, in consequence of
which they went over to Monte Video, which was then
engaged in hostilities against Buenos Ayres, which was
blockaded by an English squadron, and an English force
was landed to defend Monte Video. In spite of all this,
Generals Rosas and Oribe maintained their footing, and
pressed Monte Video extremely hard. Mr. Ouseley
proposed terms which Rosas did not then think proper
to accede to. After that the British Government sent
out Lord Howden, and with him went out, on behalf
of France, a :distinguished person who was now the
ambassador to this country. After a short time Lord
Howden, although that was a joint intervention, thought
it better at once to break the blockade and do away
with our interference, leaving Buenos Ayres and Monte
Video to fight it out as best they could. They ac-
cordingly' did so, the blockade was withdrawn, and
from that moment the joint intervention must
have been considered to have come to an end.
This state of things continued; and after that
another person was sent out, and finally Mr. South-
ern, who was the only negotiator who seemed to
have anything like success. At that period a treaty
was framed between General Rosas and this country ;
and that treaty, as was well known now, had merely
for its object the acknowledgment of the independence
of Monte Video and the inducing of Roses to withdraw
his force from that country. In all these treaties, not-
withstanding the instructions originally sent out to ne-
gotiate for the opening of the River Plate, and notwith-
standing on one occasion we forced the opening of the
river Parana, yet notwithstanding these instructions,
never did Ross at any moment consent to open those
rivers. Mr. Hood proposed to open the Parana and
Paraguay, as internal rivers, yet so suspicious was Rosas
that he objected to do so; the negotiation failed, and no
attempt had since been made to open those rivers. When
affairs had come to this point, as far as our interference
was concerned, there was supposed to be an end of the
matter; and up to that moment we had gained no ad-
vantage in a commercial point of view, although we had
compelled Rosas to act up to the treaty of 1828, and ac-
knowledge the independence of Monte Video. After
that circumstances arose which totally changed our rela-
tions as to that country, and opened up an opportunity of
establishing new relations. After Rosas had withdrawn
his troops, aid the independence of Monte Video had
been acknowledged, the Brazils entered into four or live
treaties with Monte Video, which he trusted would be laid
on the table of the House. Some of those treaties
twesetroe
treaties of commerce, and others urged the Corrientes
con.
raise the flag of rebellion. Corrientes was noti
by Brazl
dition to be successful. It was supported
(which had never declared war) very
former occasion.
ner we supported Monte Video on aa
and defeated
much in the man-
General Urquize next went to the Paean
h followers, and
Rosas, who was abandoned by
was obliged to escape with his :allughr
quiza was at this
Locust, one of our vessels. General
he ter on board the
the Noble Lord)
moment in the Banda Oriental, received
were now both flying in that
was informed by. letters be had that the Brazi-
lian and Argentine flags .
demand high pay for the
country. In this state of s, having assisted
Urquiza, would, ofcourse,cause;an
services she had done his
was to be surrendered to
portion the Banda Oriental
th© Gibraltar of the
Brazil; and that a large
had been ceded. It was to ascertain, then, who was to
the proper authority—whether the Argen-
be considered
consider the proper autho-
une Banda that he had asked the
Confederation was to be
autho-
rity—' the Oriental,
questions be had risen to put to the Noble Earl. He
would also strongly urge on her Majeaty'i Government
that, in the present state of affairs, the should lose not
a moment in entering into negotiations with the coun-
tries which were touched by the rivers Parana and Pa-
raguay for free navigation through all those countries;
amongst which he included not only the Argentine Con-
federation, but also Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay—which
we had not yet, but which we ought to have, considered
independent— (Hear, hear)—and the Banda Oriental.—
(Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances, he begged
to ask the Noble Earl whether he could afford them any
information on the subject; and also whether he could
give them any hope that the great object they had in
view—namely, the legitimate extension of our commerce,
was likely to b,A carried out more successfully than it had
before been under General Rosas?—(Cheers )
The Earl of MALMESBURY remarked that, after
the detailed account which the Noble Lord had given,
it would be perfectly unnecessary for him ogeiu to go

through the transactions to which the Noble Lord had
alluded, and which had extended over so many years.
It was not very likely that any Government in which
her Majesty placed confidence would have neglected to
see the vast importance of these transactions, both as
respected the subject itself, ani as respected the oppor-
tunity which bad been offered to her Majesty's Govern-
ment to interfere, with a view to the interests of British
commerce ; but it had been a subject which had occu-
pied the attention of the Government for many years.
Even so long ago as 1306, when Sir Home Popham had
made an attack upon Buenos Ayres, i. was shown before
a court-martial how invaluable it would be as regard, d
the communications with those rivers which felt into
the Plate, and certainly it would be most desirable, to
have an unbroken communication between all the coun-
tries through which they ran and the Atlantic, and thus
with this country.—(Hea-.) The independent Republic
of Paraguay, which we had not yet acknowledged, but
which he thought we ought to do as soon as possible—
(Hoar, hear)—and which appeared to be upheld at this
moment by a man who was the most advanced of his
race, had agreed to accept commercial relations with
this country.—(Hear.) It appeared that when Sir
Charles Ilotham wont up to the Parana, he had com-
munications with the chief of that country. It was sa-
tisfactory to find that the two great states at the head
of these rivers were in favour of commercial intercourse
with England; and when they further considered the
immense advantages that England sod the other Euro-
pean countries would derive, ho thought that there could
he no doubt that all the nations in Europe would take
the same view as that which the Noble Lord and her
Majesty's Government entertained. (Cheers.) But
now, in answer to the questions which the Noble Lnrd
had put with respect to the political state of these
countries at the present moment—officially the Govern-
ment had no account of anything beyond the total
detest of Rosas, teed his flight on board of one of our
ships. They had no accounts, either official or other-
wise, as to the flags which the Noble Lard had said
were flying in the Banda Oriental; or that any portion
of that territory had been ceded. They had no official
or private information as to what the Noble Lord said had
been given up, but he had reason to believe that it still
remained what it was by the last arrangement.—(Hear,
hear.) With respect, now, to the conduct of her Ma-
jesty's Government under these circumstances. It had
been simply this. Within 24 hours after receiving the
news of Rosas's defeat, he (the Noble Earl) had put
himself in communication with the Government of the
French Republic, and invited that Government to join
us in arranging such negotiations with these states as
would contribute to the peace of the country and the
commercial interests both of this country and the other
nations of Europe.—(Cheers.) Further than that he
could not at present answer the questions of the Noble
Lord, and he thought their Lordships would not expect
him to enter into the details of such plans as the Govern-
ment had in contemplation upon a subject which they
considered to be of as much importance as anything that
now occupied the civilised world.—(Cheers.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN remarked that, as ho had
frequently had occasion to refer to this subject, he
could not help taking this opportunity of expressing
the great satisfaction he telt at the termination
which had taken place of the war. The main
object of the interference of this country had
only now for the first time been fully obtained,
namely, the entire independence of the Banda Oriental.
(Hear, hear.) That was not the case with the last treaty
between this country and Rosas, because, although the
independence of the Banda was recognised in terms, the
army of bons was left in the Oriental States in a con-
dition to pursue hostilities against them; and if it had
not been for the intervention of Brazil and the rebellion
of Corientes (as the Noble Lord had called it) against
Rosas, it was very probable that he would have suc-
ceeded in obtaining possession. He (the Noble Earl)
was most happy to hear from his Noble Friend that the
Government had proposed to renew with the French
Government those negotiations which were put a stop
to by the separate treaties concluded with this country
—a proceeding which at the time he (Lard Aberdeen)
had taken the liberty of saying was not justified, and
which the French people might to a certain degree re-
sent, and to which they had testified their great dis-
content. H© thought that nothing could exceed the
perfect cordiality and good faith with which the French
Government had acted throughout the whole affair,
and he therefore hoped that in renewing this con-
nexion and concert with them we should proceed in the
same manner that we had hitherto done.—(Cheers.)
No doubt it was impossible to exaggerate the import-
ance in a commercial point of view of free access to the
internal rivers of South America: but, although it was
exceedingly easy to declare the navigation of a river
free, much remained to be done after such declaration.
He recollected when the navigation of the Rhine was
declared free, bat it took twenty years to regulate the
conditions upon which that free navigation should take
place.—(Hear, hear.) He was exceedingly glad to find
the various states in favour of free communication with
Europe; but the Eastern Republics had never been de-
ficient. Tiaey had always the utmost liberality, and he
trusted that the Argentine (.3onfederation in their now
condition might share in this very salutary feeling.—
(Hear, hear.) He thought it would not be wise to enter
more particularly into the specific acts of the Govern-
ment. No doubt the Noble Earl was very fully impressed
with the importance of the object in view, and he for
one would give them credit for pursuing it with the
greatest assiduity.—(Hear.) He hoped that he (Lord
Aberdeen) was not carried away with the vanity of
authorship, bat it had that day happened to him to look
at inc lutit,ruudons, Which be bud not seen for seven
years since he had first drawn them up in 1845; and
he really thought, as far as be might judge, there was
nothing in them that he would alter at this moment.
After a few words from the Earl of HARROW/3Y and
Lord STANLEY of A lderley,
Viscount CANNING inquired if the Government had
any information with respect to the independence of
Paraguay.
The Earl of MALMESBURY answered in the nega-
tive.
Lord BEAUMONT had listened with great pleasure
to what had fallen from the Noble Earl, and he wished
to know whether the Government had any papers which
had not already been laid on the t ible of the House.
The Earl of MALMESBURY said they had none,
except the dispatches related to the defeat of Rosas, and
his escape to the Locust.
Lord BEAUMONT was understood not to press for
the production of these dispatches, and
Their Lordships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 23.
The SPEAKER took tha Chair at Four o'clock.
NEW MEMBER.

Viscount GALWAY took the oaths and his seat on his
re-election for East Retford.
SECOND READINGS.
The Asthall and Buckland Road Bill, the Idle Drain-
age Bill, and the Metropolis Water Supply Bill were
read a second time. The last Bill was reterrod to a Se-
lect Committee.
SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE MINING DISTRICT
WATER COMPANY BILL.
On the motion for the second reading of this Bill,
Mr. BEST opposed the Bill on the ground that it
proposed to abstract a large body of water from the
river at Kidderminster, which, at present, was scarcely
adequate to the requirements of the manufactures in the
town. The manufacture of carpets was extensively car-
ried on at Kidderminster, and it was absolutely neces-
sary that those engaged in that branch of industry should
have a good supply of water by means of a running
stream. He moved that the Bill be read a second time
this day six months.
Mr. THORNELY supported the second reading.
Mr . GEAC II also supported the Bill, and bore testi-
mony to the want of water in the districts proposed to
be supplied.
Alderman SIDNEY should vote in favour of the
amendment.
Mr. C. VILLIERS said the question was between
making carpets and preserving human life. There was
no district in England so badly supplied with water, and
that was the reason why it was so frequently visited
with cholera and epidemics. He hoped no further oppo-
sition would be offered to the Bill.
Mr. KNIGHT considered that if the Bill were passed
it would ruin the trade of Kidderminster, because the
manufacturers required a running stream to enable them
to dye their yarns, and the Bill would deprive them of
the advantage they now enjoyed.
Colonel ANSON supported the Bill.
reading.
Sir R. H. INGLIS was opposed to the second
The House then divided, when there appea/ed
For the second reading ... •••
89
Against it ••• ••• ••••
_l4

aatnd2sMpeelrcocraenbte.
Majority • • •• ••• -
The Bill was consequently lost.
PETITIONS.
Colonel FREESTUN presented a petition from the
ngeymtaoxuetdh
postmasters of the boofretuhgehir.obfeWi
only charged
b
oßnegthiseicrogmroPalastinrngings, whilst railways are 011
,
5 per cent. on their passenger receipts
and no tax on
their carriages or goods traffic; and praying for the im-
mediate repeal of the post-horse duties and assessed tax
petition from onir
DiaFEeys kNecpof tuoßleTt tporehsiernet.ei
a
Lam-
beth against calling out the militia; and from Louth,
the endowment of Maynooth
Lincolnshire, for repealing
College.
Mr. ELLIS presented a
petition from Leicester,
against church rates.:
Lord
C. MANNERS presented several petitions from
places in Leicestershire t against the Maynooth grant.
Col. VESY petition from Wakefield,
against the post-horsen duty.ea
Sir R. H. INGLIS presented a petition from the So-
ciety for the relief of the sons of poor clergymen, pray-
ing to be exempt from the operation of the Charitable
Trusts Bill.
Mr. J. B. SMITH presented a petition from Dun-
fermline, praying the House to withold its sanction to
any alteration in the free-trade policy.
Mr. P. HOWARD presented a petition from Carlisle,
praying for the repeal of the taxes on knowledge.
Mr. KEOGH presented a petition from a place in
Westmeath in favour of tenant right.
Mr. SCULLY presented a similar petition from a
place in the county of Kerry.
Mr. M. GIBSON presented a petition from Man-
chester, praying that there might be no alteration in our
commercial plieY•
Mr. COWAN presented a petition from Montrose
against the Maynooth grant.
Mr. WALTER presented a petition from Nottingham
17EeNanppreesnennytepdoastapgeteition from Leeds, pray-
ingreersiceannted petitions in
Mr. favour
coouf
for the repeal of all taxes on knowledge.
from the
Mr. GLADSTONEAmp
clergy of our North Colonies against any
alteration in the law relating to
hold for church purposes.

NOTICE OF MOTION.
Wii&LAWki&X motive that 110 ohold tam