The Sun.
London, England, 1864-03-01 00:00:00

THE STIN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 1, 1864.

terested in the difference between Denmark and Germany
without an armistice. I understand that the noble lord
made an announcement to that effect, and that the propo
sition had been accepted by the French Government. I have
myself great distrust of Conferences pendente life. It seems
in the nature of things that these efforts should be generally
fruitless, and sometimes productive of great disadvantage,
however bona fide may be the intentions of those
who go into the councils under such circumstances. It
stands to reason that nothing can be more difficult than to
come to a decision upon events perpetually changing;
and if wo study the history, not only of this country,
but of general diplomacy, we shall find that in nine times
out of ten, where conferences for peace have been carried on
during war without an armistice, these conferences have
failed; because, though there may have been the greatest
anxiety on the part of all present to come to a pacific solu-
tion of affairs, yet when they have arrived at some basis
which promised a satisfactory result a strong place has,
perhaps, been taken, a battle fought, or some individual
who exercises a leading influence on events—a Minister or
a Prince—dies; the whole materials are changed in their
aspect and character, and, with all the efforts exerted to
bring the matter to a conclusion, failure has generally been
the result, But in the present case I confess that I have
more than an abstract objection to a conference pendente fife,
because we have experience of the influence of the present
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs under circumstances
of an analogous character, and they are not of a favourable or
flattering nature. (Laughter.) Nine years ago there were
conferences held at Vienna at a time of war, and without
an armistice, with the view of bringing about peace under
circumstances which many considered not unfavourable.
The noble lord, now Foreign Secretary, but not then filling
that office, was, from the force (of circumstances, without
any occupation at the moment. (A laugh.) He was, there-
fore, chosen by the noble lord the Prime Minister to manage
the negotiation at the Conference of Vienna, under the
conditions to which I have referred. I need not remind the
house—for it is part of our history—of the amorset of indis-
cretion and disaster which was accomplished under these
circumstances. (Hear, hear.) I believe there is no page
in the annals of our time—at least of the last 25 years—to
which we can look back with less satisfaction. (Hear.) The
noble lord was sent to the Conference to negotiate a peace
without an armistice. He came back to this country to re-
commend to his colleagues that they should accept a peace,
under conditions which were kept completely secret. Sus-
picions were excited in the House of Commons. I myself
was requested by my friends to bring forward a motion
calling the attention of the house to the ambiguity both of
expression and conduct on the part of the Government in
regard to the proceedings which were then taking place.
The Government were vindicated on that occasion by a very
large majority—not less than 100 expressing their confidence
in the negotiations of the noble lord and the conduct of her
Majesty's Ministers. The noble lord himself appeared in
the house and made a very powerful speech in favour of
carrying on an uncompromising war against Russia. Yet
afterwards the secret came out that at that very period he
was recommending a peace under conditions which the
House of Commons, at least, deemed very disgraceful.
(Hear, hear.) These negotiations at a Conference pendente
lite led to a change of Ministry in France, and to other cir-
cumstances of very great importance. As far as the Eng-
lish Government were concerned, although they had a
majority of 100 on the vote of confidence before the Whit-
suntide holidays, yet after that brief interval they were in
such a position that the noble lord who conducted the nego-
tiations could save the country only by an ignominious
retreat, (Cheers.) Therefore, speaking both generally and
particularly, there is nothing very encouraging to the
country and the House of Commons in learning that Con-
ferences aro to be held with a view of terminating the de-
plorable hostilities in Denmark, and that they are to be
conducted without the preliminary and salutary condition
of an armistice. (Hear.) Besides these objections to the
course which the Government are about to pursue, there is
another reason why I think it my duty to request some in-
formation on this point from her Majesty's Ministers. I dare
say hon. gentlemen have all of them more or less examined
the papers respecting the Schleswig- Holsteinquestion which
we so anxiously urged the Government to produce, and I
doubt not they have observed that the noble lord, who nine
years ago conducted so disastrously and fruitlessly the Con-
ferences at Vienna, now, as Secretary of State for the
Foreign Department, impressed with the difficulties which
every day surround him with regard to the Danish ques-
tion, made a proposal to the French Government. I need
not go into the despatch of the noble lord in September of
last year. It is a despatch very characteristic of the writer,
who, having to encounter very great difficulties, suggests
every feeble expedient that can be imagined. Affairs might
be settled by a Conference; they might be settled by pro-
positions; they might be settled by identic notes, by single
notes, by joint notes, by all that diplomatic rubbish (laugh-
ter) which characterises, to use the happy language of the
noble lord the Prime Minister, a Government of antiquated
imbecility. (Laughter and cheers.) What was the answer
of the French Government ? I have no doubt that hon.
gentlemen are perfectly familiar with the answer of the
French Government, communicated by the English Charge
d'Affaires to Earl Russell, It is No. 126, I think, in the
papers. M. Drouyn de Lhuys speaks with a very intimate
knowledge of the character of the Foreign Secretary. M.
Drouyn de Lhuys had been his colleague at those celebrated
Conferences at Vienna, where he negotiated a peace with-
out an armistice, and had lost his eminent post in cense •
quence of the arrangements he then made with the noble
lord. M. Drouyn do Lhuys had also been infrequent com-
munication upon many very important questions with the
noble lord during the last year or two. Well, what was the
answer of the French Government ? lam sure hon. gentle-
men are familiar with it, for it is really the key to the whole
of this voluminous correspondence, part of which we have
already received, The French Government reply—All
this is very well—these propositions for conferences, for
identic, joint, or separate notes, these means of conveying
to Powers, pursuing a course which we think impolitic and
unjust, our sense of their misbehaviour; but we have not
forgotten that, under your influence and in your company,
we have taken these measures only recently in regard to
Poland, and what was the result ? It ended in the humi-
liation of both countries—to use M. Drouyn de Lhuys' own
words, which I quote from memory, " in impairing the dig-
nity both of France and England." (Hear, hear.) There-
fore, say the French Government, we will have nothing to
do with these propositions, we will not interfere with these
things; the Emperor is resolved on this; unless you are
prepared to proceed further and enter into a course of action.
(Hear, hear.) What more legitimate question, therefore,
can we ask, especially before we go into Committee of Sap-
ply, which is the business of to-night, than this—What is
the exact position of this affair ? (Cheers.) If, as the noble
lord tells us, France has listened with favour to the proposal
of a conference, and is ready at last to co• operate with us in
that direction, is it not our first duty to ascertain from the
noble lord on what conditions the assent of France has been
given, and whether the noble lord has agreed with the
French Government to go further and to enter into a course
of action in order to effect a common object in Denmark ?
(Hear, hear.) That is a question of vital and urgent impor-
tance. I will assume, however, for the moment, that the
conditions of France have been mentioned and complied
with, that France and England at least have determined to
enter Into a course of action. I say it is also a matter of very
great interest and importance to the House of Commons to
know what that action is intended to effect, and what ob-
ject we are to accomplish, As far as I oan form an opinion,
having listened to a varietyofletatements in both houses from
Ministers of the Crown on this question of Germany and
Denmark, there seems so much inconsistency, so mush con-
trariety, not only of views but facts, that at last I feel quite in
a cloud, and am at a loss to' nderstand if the Government are
going to act, it is that they intend to do. (Hear.) If lam
to believe the noble lord, there is a groat and common ob-
ject upon which the Powers are agreed and decided, and
that is to maintain the integrity and independence of Den-
mark. (Hear.) Everybody, according to the noble lord, is
in favour of the integrity and independence of Denmark,
and nobody more so than the Austrian and Prussian Go-
vernments. (A laugh.) It is a groat point, especially in
conferences pendente late, that there should be one question
upon which all parties are agreed ; but then, unfortunately,
very different meanings are attributed to the phrase ;—" 'The
independence and integrity of Denmark." If, for example,
by maintaining the independence and integrity of Denmark,
you mean a union between the Kingdom and the Duchies,
subsisting merely by the personal tie of being ruled by the
same sovereign, I for ono should say that that, so far from
being an arrangement to secure the object in question, would
produce constant disunion and ultimate anarchy. (Hear.)
Are we to adopt the alternative that Europe is to interfere,
and by force of arms to render the inhabitants of Holstein
and Schleswig loyal and contented subjects of the King of
Denmark ? That is a solution not consistent with the prin-
ciples of British policy, nor, to my mind, perfectly in har-
mony with the spirit of the age in which we live, (Hear.)
Hence this is a situation which requires much explanation.
It is possible—for I wish to view the question in both lights,
in order that wo may, at this anxious moment, elicit some
information from her Majesty's Government—it is possible
that Franco has generously consented to attend the Con-
ferences without exacting those conditions which the French
Minister in the autumn said were a sin. qua non. What
will happen then ? In my opinion, what probably will
happen will be that a great deal of thee will be wasted, and
then the spring will at last arrive, When the spring arrives
that Power which, from our continual blundering, has
had the opportunity of assuming a position of so much
forbearance and so much moderation, and of offering,
through the Emperor, so many conciliatory messages will,
perhaps, be called upon to settle these disputes, some of
which are to be brought before this very Conference. I
cannot doubt that under the circumstances the Emperor of
the French will probably be very successful, People will
be so very tired, Governments will be so very exhausted—
they will have appealed so often in vain to England for a
a elution of these difficulties, that they naturally will turn to
one who, to use a common phrase, will find himself master
of the situation. (Hear, hear.) Ido not pretend to say
will act d inou ab
doubt
very
this fe ro cci
iovui
_s
manner under
erthore cuocfitrhe
m s Frencht
ati ce s.

lised ago France, like every other country—France,—tOO,
particularly enlightened—will feel the advantage of modera-
tion even in its ambition. Perhaps the revival of the Con-
federation of the Rhine, perhaps the ratification of the
long and anxiously considered question of the Saarlouis
frontier might be thought a sutileitnt compensation for the

extreme anxiety which the Emperor of the French will
naturally feel in settling disputes which we ourselves have
assisted so much to complicate. (Hear, hear.) What will
happen then ? There will be a great noise in this house,
and probably in other Houses of Parliament, upon the mat-
ter. If we find some arrangement of the map of Europe
similar to that in the case of Nice and Savoy, we shall hove
screaming despatches and terrible invectives— terrible in-
vectives, like those that have not yet succeeded in expelling
the Pope from Rome or the Austrians from Venice, but
which are recognised for their power and for the appropri-
ate manner in which they are always introduced in the
discussion of public affairs. (Laughter and cheers.) But
I should like to
-know what will be our position under those
circumstances. I know the noble lord opposite win say to
me—" You make these remarks upon the Government in
the difficult position in which we are placed, but you
never make any suggestion of what you would do if you
found yourself responsible for the conduct of affairs in
the same situation." (Ministerial cheers.) I should be very
sorry to be in the position in which the noble lords finds
himself—(cheers and laughter:—and I cannot but believe
that if we had been upon the Treasury bench instead of the
noble lord and his colleagues, we should not have been in
the situation which Ministers now occupy. (Cheers.)
That, indeed, is the whole neater. You can see the sole
cause of the present imbroglio in the answer which the
French Minister has made to the plaintive representations
of our Secretary of State, It h quite clear that if her Ma-
jesty's Government had not taken that unwise course with
respect to the affairs of Poland—if they had not entrapped
France into a false position, and when she was in a false
position made no effort to extricate her from it—if there had
not been that consequent estrangements between the two
Governments, France and England could have prevented
those events which have occurred in the North of Europe,
(Cheers.) Therefore, those frecpent taunts, that we criticise
the conduct of Ministers but do not say what we would do if
We were in the same position, rally come to nothing, because
I believe that her Majesty's Gcvernment have themselves
brought about the difficulties wth which they are unable
to deal. (Cheers.) When we ate asked whether we are ad-
vocates for war in favour of de integrity and independ-
ence of Denmark, my answer is, that I cannot say what the
policy of England ought to be vith respect to going to war
for the integrity and independetce of Denmark until I am
acquainted with the engagements which her Majesty's Go-
vernment have entered into. Bat irrespective of that point
—which I reserve--I assert that if our affairs had been
managed with due firmness and conciliation, with straight-
forwardness, and with commcn sense—(cheers)--the inte-
grity and independence of Denmark would never have been
endangered. (Continued cheering.) There need have been
no question of war to preserve the integrity and indepen-
dence of Denmark. That is the real issue before us. I can-
not, I repeat, give an opinion as to what should be the ulti-
mate course of this country, because Parliament is not at the
present moment fully in possession of information upon the
subject, and because we do not know what engagements
her Majesty's Government may have entered into with the
Danish Government, what expectations they have held out,
and under what understanding, verbal or written—(hear,
hear)--all parties may have acted. (Cheers.) Nor am I
too sanguine that wo shall find that information in the papers
which have been promised by the Government, and which
are now appearing instalments. I wanted those papers, not
so much for the information they would give us as for the
information they omitted—(a laugh) —but because, let me
remind the house, it has twice happened with the present
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs that at critical periods
in the history of this country, when he has been obliged to
furnish Parliament for its decision with volumicouspapers,
the question has been decided, not on the papers which were
laid before Parliament by the Minister, but on papers which,
in consequence of their publication, appeared abroad. (Hear,
hear.) That is a very remarkable thing to have happened
twice to the same Minister. In 18;53, when alarm first brake
out respecting probable hostilities with Russia, which ended
in the Crimean war, we had papers enough, as I told the
house the other night. On the first day of the Session the
present Lord Russell appeared at the bar, and gave us that
eurfeit of State papers which the noble lord seems to delight
in, and to hops may baffle the understanding of the House
of Commons. He gave us 800 pages within 48 hours. What
was the consequence ? You had questions from all parts
of the house ; you had answers from Ministers ; you
had debates and discussions ; . but the house remained
as it remains now upon the Danish question, unable
to fix the Minister, but with a deep conviction pervading
both sides that they were not masters of the real merits of
the case. (Cheers.) The noble lord in one of his:speeches,
with a great want of precaution as it afterwards turned out,
denounced the policy of Russia—the ambitious, irrational,
and unexpected policy of Russia— for which the Govern-
ment of Lord Aberdeen had not been prepared. What oc-
curred ? There appeared in the official journal of St. Peters-
burg a statement that, whatever might have been the errors
of Russian policy, one thing was quite clear, that her Ma-
jesty's Ministers from the first had been aware of the inten-
tion of the Emperor of Russia, and had approved the prin-
ciple on which he had acted. (Cheers.) A member of this
house having some other information, made such an appeal
that the noble lord the Secretary of State was obliged to pro-
duce the confidential communications of the Emperor of
Russia with nir 11. Seymour—(cheers)—from which it ap-
peared that at the very moment of the formation of the Go-
vernment of Lord Aberdeen the Emperor of Russia, with
the utmost frankness, had explained his views to the Eng-
lish Minister. (Cheers.) Nay, not only had that occurred,
but the Secretary of State had answered that confidential
communication with such a total ignorance of the merits of
the question, with such a total want of appreciation of the
exigency, that he made an admission of the right of the Em-
peror of Russia to interfere in the Turkish dominions as
protector of the Greeks, although it afterwards turned out
that the very treaty under which that right was claimed
gave no sanction whatever to the pretension, and must have
been perfectly- unknown to the Minister, who had perhaps
neither the time nor the opportunity to examine it betore he
gave the solemn verdict of the British Government upon its
value and importance. (Cheers.) I should have thought that
was enough for a Secretary of ntate to have done to entitle
him to the lasting confidence of his Sovereign and of Parlia-
ment; but what happened in those verynegotiations atVienna
which terminated so truttlesaly ? I can remember no period
when there was so much anxiety, so much disturbance and
disquietude in the mind of Parliament as when those negotia-
tions were going on at Vienna. Her Majesty's Government
then was not constituted precisely as it is now. The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, for:example, did not then sit on the
Treasury bench to denounce a statement of facts as "fire-
works," (A laugh.) On the contrary, the right hon. gentle-
man was perfectly alive to the importance of the question
then before us—(hear, hear)— and he was pressing the Go-
vernment—though for a different object—in order to obtain
the truth which was withheld and concealed from this house,
What happened then. We had despatches and papers laid
before us, as at the period before the commencement of the
Crimean war, and as at this moment; fur the noble lord is
always ready to produce papers enough to confuse the par-
liamentary mind, and to prevent members from complain-
ing of the want of ample information from the Government.
But it appeared to us on this side of the house, as well as
that those papers indicated
Chancellor
opposite—among the rest the
hg:nEt lxecmheenquoeprl
great ambiguity of conduct, and that some secret had been
acnelylorhoefn't
withheld from us. I myself brought the matter before the
house, but was defeated in a full house by a majority of 100,
who voted confidence in the intentions of the present Secre-
tary of State and in her Majesty's Ministers. We dispersed for
the holidays. In consequence of some of the statements made
in the house, the Prime Minister of Austria (Count Buol)
published a confidential circular in which he stated that the
noble lord the present Secretary of State, who had come back
to England and made a ranting speech in favour of a vigo-
rous prosecution of the war, had previously settled with him
what he thought reasonable terms upon which peace might be
concluded and in fact had returned home for the express pur-
pose of recommending and sanctioning that peace. (Cheers.)
Under these circumstances what became of your majority
of 100 ? The noble lord only saved his colleagues by a pre-
cipitate and ignominious retreat. (Hear, hear.) Thus, then,
twice—once at the commencement of the troubles with
Russia, and once in carrying on the negotiations with Aus-
tria, you find that the House of Commons, with thu most
ample materials supplied by their own Ministry, have never
been able to arrive at the truth, and it is with the forced
publication of documents by foreign Governments that the
secret policy pursued has been revealed. Let us, then, look
at the present position, -We have many papers before us.
There are none that have met my eye yet which throw any
light on those engagements which it is, I will only say,
rumoured about that her Majesty's Government have en-
tered into with Denmark, but still rumoured by persons of
very great authority. T
- shall not be answered by any quib-
bling about words. When I talk of engagements, I am not
talking of solemn and formal treaties, which can of course
be appealed to ; but I want to know what have been the
expectations which we have held out to Denmark. (Hear.)
Whst has been the encouragement that we have given her?
What has been the advice we have offered ? What has been
the moral obligation, at least, that we have incurred, which
can explain the whole course of Danish policy at the present
moment or from the commencement of these troubles ? Sir,
we were reminded, before I made these inquiries, that the
holydays were near at hand, and I don't suppose that before
the holydays we shall find out this. But I have great con-
fidence in the revelations which the holydays bring forth,
It was during the Whitsun recess, I think, that Count
Buol published his confidential circular, and I shall not be
surprised if in due course of time we have some remark-
able documents published by Denmark, or some statement
made by some person in authority there that will throw
that light on the present position of Europe which, in my
opinion, is now extremely wanting. If we gain that infor-
mation, I have no doubt it will produce the beneficial re-
sults which always may be experienced by arriving at the
truth. At present I can only say—and it is my duty, in
the want of that information, to remind the house of the
position in which the country is now placed—that that
position is most unsatisfactory. Whether we may have
entered into conditions with France, accepting het con-
ditions probably, or whether France is entering into
this Conference without any conditions, it is impossible to
suppose that before the euintner passes away something may
nut occur which will be both inconvenient and mortifying
to this country. (dear, hear.) I hear nothing from her
Majesty's Government to guide, to enlighten, to animate the
house and the country at the present moment. The drivers

have lost the road, the reins have fallen from their hands,
the horses are wild, and now we shall hear their answer to
rimy inquiries. (Cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON, on rising, was received with
cheers. He said,—Sir,—The right hon. gentleman never is
so great—never in his own opinion is so successful as when
he has an opportunity of attacking an absent man. (Cheers.)
He was pleased the other day to take advantage of my tem-
porary absence—(" Oh,'' and cheers)-- I having been de-
tained somewhat later than usual by public business that
could not well be postponed i and now he takes that which
suits him still better—viz, the opportunity of attacking my
noble friend in the other House of Parliament. lam here;
but my noble friend cannot be. (Hear, hear.) But the right
hon. gentleman chooses with wonderful dexterity and with
somewhat of, I will say, simplicity of mind--(laughter)—
the ground of his attacks. Ho has been absent from his
place for the last three or four days. He has been studying,
pondering over, getting by heart, making extracts from, and
turning dog's-ears down in the papers presented upon
Danish affairs—(a laugh)—and finding little or nothing in
them—(cheers from the Opposition) upon which to found
an attack on my noble friend—(counter cheers)---he ran-
sacks Hansard, he turns over the pages of the Annual Beg is-
ter, he goes bank to the blue-books of 10 years ago for the
purpose of founding a charge against my noble friend as to
what happened at Vienna in 1853. Well, sir, I congratu-
late my noble friend that the right hon. gentleman has found
the ice so hard in Danish affairs that he has been obliged to
go back 10 years for his topics of accusation. (Hear, hear.)
Why, sir, my noble friend performed with ability and
fidelity the duties which were imposed upon him at that
time at Vienna. (" Oh !" and "Hear, hear.") By the
admission of the right honourable gentleman he did his
utmost to bring about a peaceful solution of the then pend-
ing questions. Unfortunately, the proposals which he and
M. de Lhuys agreed upon failed, and war ensued, not by
their fault, but by the fault of others. My noble friend went

on that occasion as far as it was possible for him to do in the
performance of his duty, in concert with the representative

of France, for the settlement of those affairs, and that at-
tempt on his part is now made a charge against his conduct.
(Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman has talked to-night
of "diplomatic rubbish." Why, sir, there is such a thing
as Parliamentary rubbish—(cheers and laughter) —and that
we are very often doomed to receive from those whose genius
and ability ought to qualify them for better things. (Hear,
hear.) But the right hon. gentleman says that the Govern-
ment are in what:he thinks very,unfortunate:circumstances,
and he seems to regret that he and his friends have not had
the management of these affairs. " Very different," he said,
"would be the condition of the country if we had the ma-
nagement of matters." Very different indeed!—(cheers)—
if we are to believe in the sincerity of the line of argument
taken by gentlemen on the other side of this house. What
are the circumstances in which we have placed the country?
Why, we axe at peace—(cheers) ; we are prosperous ; we
have been occupied in communications with all the Powers
of Europe in endeavouring to settle differences without war.
(Hear, hear.) If we were to be led by the language of those
who sit opposite, and especially of the right hon. gentleman,
we ought to have made war against Russia for Poland—
(hear, hear, and murmurs)—we basely abandoned France
on the Polish question when she was ready to make war
with Russia. That is the charge against 119, if we are to be-
lieve the right hon. gentleman's arguments to-night; and
be said " France proposed you should make war with Ger-
many about Denmark, and you shrunk from accepting her
proposal." Well, the right hon. gentleman would not have
shrunk from that, I suppose. (A. laugh) I say, sir, that in
my humble opinion, and without, I am sure, begrudging
any success, official or otherwise, which the right hon, gentle-
man and his friends may be anxious to obtain on these seats

here or elsewhere, the country is just as well served by those
who are now in office as they would be, according to the
doctrine of the right hon. gentleman, if he and his friends,
occupying our places, had acted up to the reasonings they
have used on this grave and important European matter.
But the right hon. gentleman sa)s he is uninformed on
this subject, and he asks the Government to enlighten his
mind. Why, sir, some people like to run away with halt
a story, and find it far more convenient to express an opinion
on that half than to wait and know the whole, being fear-
ful that when they know the whole the conclusion they
wish to arrive may not follow so legitimately from the pre-
mises laid before them. The right hon. gentleman cer
tainly puts the house in a very embarrassing situation, be
cause when no papers are given he says, " How unfairly
you treat the, house; you leave it in the dark without any
documents or information; we are unable to arrive at a
conclusion." Then, he tells us this evening that "If you
give the house 800 pages of information the house is then
more unable than ever to come to any definite conclusion."
(Laughter.) How we are to please the right hon, gentleman
it is really very difficult to say. If we give him no papers
he complains of the absence of papers; if we give him the
papers, he says he is unable to digest them and come to any
rational result. Well, it is a natural fault with some minds
that they are so constituted that they either do not choose
to come to a conclusion, or they are unable to do so. But,
one way or the other, it is quite clear that it is of no use
giving the right hon. gentleman the papers, because he says,
with or without them, he is equally unable to understand
anything with regard to our foreign affairs. (A laugh.) But
the right hon. gentleman, I assume,was speaking for others,
and not for himself, for of course I have a higher opinion of
the acuteness of his mind than to believe that if even ten
times 800 pages at a time were offered to him he could not ar-
rive at a clear and definite conclusion upon them, according
to his own opinion. (Hear, and a laugh.) But I think he is
quite right in the course which he now pursues. In com-
mon with the rest of the house, ho has had delivered to him
papers coming down to the latter end of last September.
It was evident that those papers Gould only contain a por-
tion of the communications which had passed between this
and other Governments upon the Danish question, but the
right hon. gentleman thought, and he was quite right, that
it was more convenient to get up and to make, upon im-
parfect information. a flourish about the conduct of the
Government upon the Danish question rather than to wait
until he should receive the papers to-morrow, which will
bring those communications down to a rater period. I can
only say it would be a long story to tell the right hon.
gentleman what are all the contents of the mass of papers
which he will be able to read for himself to-morrow ; but I
say let him wait, and let the house wait for these papers
before coming to any conclusion—(hear, hear)—as to the
course we have pursued, either in accepting proposals
or in answering proposals, or in making proposals to
other Governments. (Hear, hear.) Let him wait until he
gets the whole statement, which he will receive in the course
of a few hours,Und then he and the house will be better able
to judge what the course of the Government has been. Our
object has been from first to last to endeavour to conciliate
differences—(hear, hear)—to bring together parties who are
holding opposite and apparently incompatible opinions, to
endeavour to modify exasperations, and to obtain a peace-
able 'settlement of that which threatened to be the cause of
European war. Hear, hear.) Why, the charge which the
right hon. gentleman brings against my noble friend is
that he was too abundant of suggestions for the attainment
of these ends. That having failed with one suggestion he
proposed another, and that is what is called "diplomatic
rubbish." My noble friend is fertile in experiments.i (Hear,
hear, and laughter.) Not succeeding in one suggestion he
proposed another ; that other being unsuccessful, he pro-
posed still another, hopeful that he would eventually attain
the desired end. (Hear, hear.) Instead of that being urged
as a charge against my noble friend, it is really a compli-
ment paid to him by one who is at the same time endeavour-
ing to run him down. The right hon, gentleman asks
whether we accepted the proposal of France made at one
period, and whether we made at another period a different
one. I ask him to have the kindness to wait only a few hours,
when he will have the whole correspondence in his hands,
and 1 am satisfied that in a week's time, and when he again
gets up on the question of going into Committee of Supply,
with all the knowledge in his head which he has not got in
his head now, we shall not have the same language from his
lips which we have heard from him to-night. ;Cheers.)
Mr. S. FITZGERALD said that no one who had listened
to the noble lord could have conceived it possible that his
speech was a reply to the right hon. gentleman—(hear)—
who had requested to be furnished with specific information
as to the Conference. The noble lord, however, had not
given the house the slightest information of any sort, kind,
or description, in reference to the proposal of a Conference.
The house ought to be informed of the present condition of
affairs. Had the Conference been unconditionally accepted
by France, and what was our position in regard to Russia ?
The noble lord, or some of his colleagues, ought to state
whether Denmark had accepted the proposal, and what was
meant by the assertion that Austria and Prussia had
accepted the Conference in principle. At the commence-
ment of his speech the noble lord charged his right hon.
friend with making observations upon an absent man ; but
did the noble lord mean to assert, that because a member of
the Government happened not to appear ho was to be privi-
leged from criticirun ? (Opposition cheers.) Hon. mem-
bers on that side of the house were not anxious, as the
noble lord insinuated, to rush headlong into a war ; but
they feared the Government had brought the country to the
brink of war. He believed that we were in a most critical
position, and that the country attributed that critical position
to want of firmness, to vacillation, and the bragging lan-
guage at one time, and the subservient language at another,
on the part of the Government ; and he was certain that
the speech of the noble lord would not contribute to disabuse
the country of that belief.

The motion for adjournment was then withdrawn.
THE BUDGET.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose and
said—ln my absence a question was put as to the day upon
which the financial statement will be made. It is, perhaps,
rather early to fix a day, and it is certainly difficult to fix a
day definitely and finally; but it will not be before the re-
cess, as the recess takes place in March, before the financial
year has been completed. If it be convenient to the house
I think we will fix it for Thursday, the 7th April—that is,
the Thursday after the recess.

The house then went into committee of supply, and re-
sumed the consideration of the navy estimates,
The votes for the number of men and boys, and for the
wages of seamen were agreed to after considerable discus.
sion, involving the chief points in reference to naval sdra-
nistration which formed the topic of debate on Friday
evening.

Mr. WILLIAMS (Lambeth) made hie first appearance

this session and :reviewed the estimates, contending that
the expenditure was as usual extravagant and unnecessary,
On the motion that £168,605 be granted to defray the
salaries of the officers and contingent expenses of the
Admiralty-office,

Mr. LINDSAY moved to reduce the vote by £5,200,
but after some discussion the proposition was rejected by
109 to 10.

On the vote of £71,276 for the scientific branch of the
navy,

Mr. A. SMITH moved to reduce the amount by £2,300,
for the School of Naval Architecture.

The amendment, however, was on a division rejected by
100 to 15.

Several other votes were agreed to, and the Chairman
reported progress and obtained leave to sit again.

The Vestry Cess Abolition:(lreland) Bill passed through
committee.

Leave wag g;7 9n to Sir R. PEEL to bring in a bill to
amend the law relating bills of exchange and promissory
notes in Ireland.

The house adjourned at 12 o'clock.

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

TIMES.—When a man speaks, not because he has
something to say, but because lie has to say some-
thing, it is not surprising if he fails in producing
any practical result. He strikes at the air, and,
though the blow may be admirably delivered, it is
difficult to see that it has any effect. There is a
great consumption of powder, a great flash, and a
loud explosion, but as the discharge is irregularly
and loosely delivered, and as there is no mark
aimed at, the display amounts to little more than a
letting off of fireworks. Mr. Disraeli was in just
this unhappy position last night. He had nothing
to propose, and, indeed, only took advantage of an
accidental motion for adjournment. He had no
definite question to ask, and no definite charge to
make ; but it was some days since the house and
the country had been informed of the existence of
an Opposition, and it was necessary to make a re-
conaissance to remind us of the fact and to keep his
own followers awake. Under such circumstances
the subject very naturally " dropped ;" and if we
make a few remarks on the short discussion, it is
by way, if possible, of saving any one for the pre-
sent the unnecessary trouble of resuming it. But
this speaking without definite purpose has its ad-
vantages as well as its drawbacks. You are not
fettered to a definite argument or a particular point,
and you can say anything that happens to come in
your way. The same amount of powder produces
a much finer display in the form of fireworks than
as the charge of a 100-pounder Armstrong. It is
not all concentrated in a particular groove for a
single effect, but may be spread out into different
constructions with various displays. So Mr.
Disraeli was free to expatiate, unfettered, upon
any part of our foreign policy within the last few
years that could possibly catch the eye of a
spectator. "It is pleasant," says the Epicurean
philosopher, " to stand upon the shore and see
ships tossed upon the sea," and Mr. Disraeli, being
stranded for the present, appears to appreciate this
pleasure to its fullest extent. There is a very
respectable storm gathering now, and the Govern-
ment ship is rather uncomfortably tossed, and Mr.
Disraeli seems to find an endless satisfaction in
asking the pilots how they feel, and what they are
going to do. They are old hands, however, and
decline to make any display either of their feelings
or their intentions for his amusement. But he
easily finds other resources. The difficulties of the
unfortunate ship which had to weather the storm
of the Crimean War afford him, even at this die-
tance of time, an instructive retrospect, and, though
he does not know the condition and bearings of the
ship at present before him, there is ample oppor-
tunities for speculating on what they might be.
He does not know the rocks ahead, but it is easy
to imagine any number of them. The Government
are confessedly steering for a Conference, but
Conferences are dangerous things in general,
and the present pilot, the Foreign Minister, having
already been rather unfortunate in passing through
one of them, may, except that he has probably
learnt experience, be unfortunate again. The con-
sent of the French Government may be with condi-
tions or without conditions, it is impossible to say
which, but it is possible to speculate on the conse-
quences of either or both. If a come of action has
been proposed, it may be one thing or it may be
another, and objections may be found to e YerYthing,
and Mr. Disraeli is prepared to object to ever] thing
that he can imagine. But if a course of action 1i
not been proposed " What will happen then ?" Mr.
Disraeli is seriously of opinign that " the Spring
will at last arrive," and there is no saying what
may happen in the Spring. The Emperor of the
French may be master of the situation, there may
be a Confederation of the Rhine, a rectification
of the Rhine frontier, and " What will happen
then ?" " There will be a great noise in this house,
and probably in other Houses of Parliament." No
doubt of it, and there will be " screaming" speeches
and " terrible invectives, like those that have not
yet succeeded in expelling" Lord Palmerston from
the Treasury- Bench or Lord Russell from the Foreign
Office. There will be a great demand for " diploma-
tic rubbish," and Mr. Disraeli will do his best to

light a fire with such waste papers ; and, if he fail,
he will denounce the laborious preparation with
which Lord Russell has rendered them incumbusti-
hie and will boast that if he had had the making of
them he would have converted the rags and shreds of
torn treatiesinto papers combustibleenough to set not
only the House of Commons but all Europe in a blaze.
After all this superfluous expenditure of breath
Lord Palmerston bad only to get up and ask what
it was all about. What did Mr. Disraeli really
want? As to papers, he complained loudly a short
time back about not having them, and now he had got
some of them he came down to say he could make
nothing of them, and did not believe he should be
able to make any more of what were to come. Those
he had did not tell him what he wanted, and he
was " not too sanguine" that those promised
would. We cannot pretend to regret that he is dis-
sstisfied. What would most delight the Opposition
would be to find that the Government have com-
mitted the honour of (he country to the support of
Christian IX. in Holstein and Schleswig, to the
forcible expulsion of Austria and Prussia from Jut-
land, or to any other course of action which might
involve us in a European war, and would certainly
involve the Government in a general want of confi-
dence. Instead of that the papers already prod aced
only show that Lord Russell bas been doing his
best from first to last " to conciliate differences, to
bring together parties who are holding opposite
and apparently incompatible opinions, to endeavour
to modify exasperations, and to obtain a peaceable
settlement of that which threatened to be the cause
of a European war." So long as he and his col•
leagues confine themselves to doing this they will
receive the support of the country, and will afford
no ground for an attack by Mr. Disraeli and his
friends. In short, if Mr. Disraeli wishes to find fault
effectually, it must be with something definite. It
is open to him to attack either the past policy of
the Government or its present course. If, as the
past conduct of this Danish affair is detailed by the
gradual publication of the papers, he is unable
to fix upon any mismanagement or to :find
any sufficient ground of censure, he would do
much more wisely to say nothing. The present
conduct of such delicate negotiations ought, on the
other hand, unless there is grave reason for sus-
pecting it, to be left almost entirely in the hands
of the Government, and the country is as yet con
tent that it should be so. But it is alike useless and
mischievous to waste the time of the House of Com-
mons in speculating on what might have been, or
may be at present, or may in future be, the policy
of the Government, and in conjuring up imaginary
charges on this speculative foundation.

POST.—It cannot be denied that the Opposition are
fairly entitled to demand from the Government some
information respecting the basis of the proposed con-
ference on Danish affairs. Whether the policy
hitherto pursued by Great Britain in her relations
with Denmark and the German Powers has been
sound or otherwise, there can be no question that
the present juncture is extremely critical, and that
the general peace of Europe is seriously endangered.
It may be, and it doubtless will be found to be so,
that the course pursued by the British Government
was eminently conducive to more satisfactory re-
sults, but that countervailing circumstances pre-
vented its being crowned with success. Bat still,
in the present position of affairs, no one can be
blamed for regarding with some little anxiety, if not
suspicion, the further prosecution of diplomatic ne-
gotiations which up to the present have, to say the
least, been so uniformly unsuccessful. The Dana-
German dispute may now be said to have passed
through every possible stage, except the last one
which, by the conclusion of a formal treaty, marks
the termination of a quarrel. We have had what
may be termed the diplomatic stage in which nego-
tiations and proposals, and suggestions and demands,
are freely interchanged between the principal parties
to the dispute, and such others as deem it to be their
duty or their interest to tender their advice or in-
terpose their authority. Then we have had the
belligerent stage, in which, negotiations having
failed, the disputants attempt to solve all difficulties
by the employment of the final argument of kinge.
We have still, however, to wait for the last stage in
which diplomacy again intervenes and separates the
wearied combatants. At this point we have not yet
arrived, and it is whilst war is still progressing
with unremitting rancour on both sides that another
attempt is being made to solve at the council table
difficulties which are simultaneously left to the issue
of the sword. y 4 hilst, however, it is extremely un •
certain whether the scheme even in its inception will
receive the assent of those for whose special benefit it
has been devised, and whilst, if assented to, its pos-
sible results are extremely problematical, it cer.

:.ar

tainly cannot be considered out of place to ask its
originators with what particular object it has bee=
planned, and on what basis it is proposed to carry
it into operation. Such was in effect the informa-
tion demanded of the Government by the leader of
the Opposition last evening ; and although the
reply of the Premier could scarcely be considersal
as entirely satisfactory, Mr. Disraeli secured his
main object of slightly ventilating the foreign
policy of the Government. Generally speaking, it
may be assumed that, if the proposed Conference
takes place, the basis of negotiations will be fur-
nished by the Treaty of London, and by the recog-
nition of the political necessity of maintaining the
integrity and independence of the kingdom of Den-
mark, So much was taken for granted by Mr.
Disraeli ; and would, as a matter of course, be con-
firmed by her Majesty's Government. But it
happens, singigarly enough, that ro European
States have been louder in their protestations of
adherence to the London Treaty than Austria and
Prussia, and none have more unequivocally ad-
mitted the principle of the inttagWy and independ-
ence of the Danish monarchy. But, notwithstand-
inge this reciprocity of sentiment II twen Great
Britain and the principal German Powe,3, how
comes it that the latter have invaded and necl...med
a considerable portion of the Danish territories/
whilst the former has been exhausting the resources
of diplomacy to prevent the accomplishment of these
acts of aggression ? It must be manifest, therefore,
that the Cabinet of St. James's and those of Berlin
and Vienna must employ the same terms with a
different signification, and consequently that the
announcement that the Conference will be held by
the representatives of Powers prepared to recognise
the integrity and independence of Denmark in truth
conveys no intelligible meaning. It was not sur-
prising, then, that Mr. Disraeli should be curious
to know the exact interpretation which is to be
put upon these apparently plain term at the pro•
jetted Conference ; and it was still less oirprising
that the Premier was unable to afford him the
desired information. The Austrian and Prue‘lian
Governments, through profuse in admissions of th,c,
validity of the Treaty of London, have always
coupled them with a singular qualification. They
have always acknowledged that treaty "in prin-
ciple," and in the same spirit have recognised the
integrity of the Danish monarchy. But until we
obtain a key to the interpretation of this clause, it
is idle to say that Great Britain and the German
Powers will be of one accord in their treatment of
the Dano-German question. Perhaps, however, it
may be thought premature to canvass the subject-
matter of discussion of a Conference which is still
in embryo, and the Government may consider it no
slight diplomatic triumph to have brought the dis-
putants on speaking terms, though they have not
yet determined what they shall talk about. In re-
ferring to the foreign policy of the Government,
Mr. Disraeli could not avoid the temptation of refer-
ring to some of the fiasclsi which have marked that
diplomatic career of the Secretary for Foreign
Affairs. It is undeniable that the history of the past
would augur unfavourably for the future, although
it by no means follows that failure may not be the
parent of success, and that indiscretion may not
give place to prudence and caution. It cannot
with fairness be said that the Leader of the Oppo-
sition merited the Premier's reproach of abusing
an absent man, because Earl Russell is a member
of the Upper House, since it is obvious that a
Minister of State does not possess, and ought not
to possess, an immunity from criticism in the House
of Commons from the accidental circumstance of
being a peer. The chief answer, however, which
it is in the power of the Government to give to all
criticisms on their foreign policy is furnished by
the fact that this country is at peace with all the
world. England has endeavoured to arrange the
differences of other States; and if, in this respect,
she has failed, she has at all events contributed to
avoid entanglement in quarrels with which she had
no immediate concern. If peace was the final ob-
ject of foreign policy, there can be no doubt that
her Majesty's Government would be entitled to un-
qualified praise. But even peace, it may be urged,
can be purchased too dearly. Whether we have
paid an extravagant price for the proud privilege of
asserting that we are at peace with the entire
world is a question which many perhaps may con-
sider open to discussion. The time, however, can-
not be far distant when her Majesty's Government
will be prepared to expose fully, and, if need be, to
Justify the policy which they have pursued in the
conduct of our foreign relations.

COUNTRY MARKETS.

-------•'----

COLCHESTER-FEB. 27.

-.-
We had a small show of wheat on offer at this market
to-day, and former prices were realised. Fine barlby is
nearly exhausted, and late rates supported; coarse inferior
sorts in large supply, and 2s per qr lower. Beans and peas
saleable at our quotations.
Wheat, white 44s 50s Beans,Mazagan..2Bs 32s
red 40s 44s middle & small.32s 36s
Barley ... r. . . 32s 41s Peas, white 35s 38s
Oats . 20s 25s grey 34s 36s

GLOUCESTER—FER. 27.
There was a full supply of English wheat to-day from
the farmers which met a quiet sale at about former prices.
Foreign wheat in retail, with no advance on the rates of
last week. Barley, oats, and beans continue dull.

NORTHAMPTON—FIB. 27.
The show of wheat was an average one, but there was
not much life in the trade, and the rates of last week were
not made in all instances. Barley in slow demand, at late
prices.—White wheat, new, 40s to 445; red, 37s to 418;
old. 37s to 45s per qr. Barley, new malting, 325. to 36s—
grinding, 25s to 30s per qr. Oats, 18s to 32s per 24 stone.
Beans, 30s to 41s. Peas, 30s to 37s per qr.

CHELMSFORD—FEB. 26.
At this corn exchange to-day there was a fair show of
wheat, which met a dull sale, and the little business that
was transacted in wheat was a shade in favour of buyers,
Spring corn also dull.
Wheat, old white 308 47s
new 44s 50s
old red 34s 40s
new 38s 42s
Barley 25s 34s
Chevalier 26s 37s
Grinding 20s 29s
Ma1t..... 61s 67s
Chevalier . 64s 69s
Oats 20s 28s

Peas, Partridge 36s 38s
White 30s 36s
Boiling 3Bs 41s
Dun 338 365
Ditto new —s —s
Beans, Tick, old 348 395
new -5 —s
Harrow Ticks 3ss 40s
new —s —5
Mazagan ..... 305 38s

KIRKCALDY GRAIN—FEB. 27.
We had large supplies of all kinds of grain, with a Slow
trade, at barely late quotations.
Wheat. Barley. Oats.
First....33s Od I 265,0 d I 16s 6d
Second ..34s Od 27s 6d 17s Od
Third....36s Od 29s Od 18s Od

COAL Prices of Coal per Ton atMARKET the close of. the market.
s. d.
Bower's West Hartley.l4 9
Byass's Bebside West
Hartley ....14 9
Lambert's West Hart-
ley 14 6
Davison's West Hart-
ley 14 9
Wylam 16 9
Cowpen Hartley 14 9
West Hartley ..14 9
Eden Main 17 0
Hastings Hartley l4 9
Walls End.

8. d.

Hetton 19 0
Caradoc lB 0
Ships at market,

Walls End.
Haswell l9 0
East Hartlepool 18 9
South Hartlepool, 17 6
Trimdon Hartlepool 18 9
K elloe
South Kelloe .. 17 9
lieugh Hall 17 9
Tunstall
Riddell..... 16 0
Wharncliffe l6 0
Cassop
Hartlepool . 18 6
Braddyll's Hetton 17 6
KeiperGrange 17 6
~ 111; sold. 72.

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