The Sun.
London, England, 1852-02-10 00:00:00

and when they had miserable little boroughs like those re-
ferred to by his Hon. Friend the Member for Inverness, they
ought to be disfranchised. The flon. Gentleman had taken
very good care to show up some of the boroughs repre-
sented by Hon. Geutelemen on his (Sir B. Hall's) side of the
h Ouse. But were there none represented by Hon. Gentlemen
opposite? Were there not Wilton, Christchurch. Flythe,
Buckingham, Helstone, Huntingdon, and Stamford? Ile
thought this state of things was disgraceful to the country—
( Hear, hear)—and that the first principle of the Reform
Bill ought to be to disfranchise those small boroughs, and
then to add protection to the voters. He could not quite
understand why the county constituencies should be put on a
different footing from those of the boroughs—(hear)—why in
a borough there should be a 101. franchise and a 21. franchise,
and yet in counties there should only be a 201. franchise?
Was-it a compliment to the voters in towns, to show they
were so much more intelligent and enlightened, that a man
who had a property to the extent of id. a year was qualified
to vote, while a farmer who rented property of less than 20/. a
year was not qualified to vote? But there was a greater
anomaly than that. Was the Irish farmer so much more en-
lightened a character than the English farmer? And why
was the former, with a 12/. holding, to have a vote, when
the farmer in this country could only have it for a 20/. hold-
ing ?—( Hear, hear.) He thought there should be the same
qualification in towns as in counties.—(Hear, hear.) It
might be said that that would give more influence to the
laaJlords; but, as he had said before, then give the people
the ballot.—(Hear, hear.) He would not trouble the House
with any details, but would thank the Noble Lord for bring-
ing in the Bill, and hoped he would not admit of any delay ;
and, when the Hon. Gentleman opposite spoke of the people
being anxious for law reform, for an inquiry into the colo-
nial system and the taxation of the country, he entirely
agreed with him, but would suggest whether the best
way of shortening the business of the House would
not be by making their speeches as short as they
cceoeudldw,
iatnhdthtehegnreatht egyuewstoioulalds
tohawvheichpltehnetyHoofmtimGeenttolempraon-
had referred.
After a few words from Lord NEWPORT, which were not
heard distinctly in the gallery,
Lord D. STVART said that out of doors this measure
would not be regarded by the people as sufficiently full and
comprehensive. The boroughmongers—the proprietors of
such boroughs as Gatton and Old Sarum—were trembling,
lest they should be deprived of that unrighteous power and
influence which they had held so long, and which they still
exercised for corrupt purposes, and therefore they had
come down in large numbers to that House to defend their
boroughs.—(Hear, hear.) He could not say that this mea-
sure would give to the country great satisfaction. It would
not come up to the wishes and desires of the people at large.
—(Hear.) It certainly did not satisfy him or agree with his
notions; for, in the first place, it was not based on any great
principle.—(Hear.) He admitted it would extend the
franchise, and so tar would be of benefit, but it was to be an
extension only from 101. to 51., drawing an arbitrary line
and based upon no principle. The Noble Lord had repu-
diated the doctrine of the finality of the Reform Bill by
bringing in this new measure of reform, and he must have
been perfectly conscious that this could not be a final mea-
sure.—( Hear.) He believed it could only be considered as
an instalment. As to the change the Noble Lord proposed
to introduce into the constituencies, he thought it would be
productive of very small advantage, and would not give the
people a true and efficient representation. He feared that
those in whose hands the Noble Lord proposed to place the
franchise were not likely to be free agents, and that
therefore it would only be giving additional power to the
landlords. He thought that for a full representation of the
people there must be a much larger extension of the fran-
chise than the Noble Lord proposed, and that there could be
none unless the people were efficiently protected in the ex-
ercise of their rights.—(Hear, hear.) And in speaking of
the rights of the people he could not help noticing an ex-
pression of the Noble Lord, used by him early in his speech.
The Noble Lord said he thought it was time to extend the
franchise as a reward to the people. He did not think that
was a proper and statesmanlike view of the subject. If it
was for the advantage of the country or of its inhabitants
that they should have the suffrage they ought to have it for
great political reasons; but if it was not for the advantage
of the country then it ought to be withheld. The Noble
Lord appeared not to be satisfied with the small boroughs
as they now existed ; but he (Lord D. Stuart) had great
doubt of the propriety of the course pursued by the Noble
Lord with respect to them. He would warn the House not
*to suppose, when a borough was either so corrupt or a no-
minee borough in the hands of some great proprietor, that
adding to it some neighbouring town or towns would make it
necessarily an open and a free borough. He thought that in
some instances the contrary would be the case. He would
refer to one—the borough of Arundel, which he had once the
honour of representing. In the Reform Bill it was proposed
to add to that borough the neighbouring port of Little-
hampton. The Noble Lord would recollect what had oc-
curred. A great objection was made to the proposed
arrangement by the inhabitants of Arundel. The proposal
was not by any means one of the discreditable tricks and
contrivances alluded to by the Hon. Member for Bucking-
hamshire, by which it was attempted to place influence in
the hands of the partizans of the _Noble Lord at the head of
the Government. It was said that the intention was to con-
solidate the power of the great proprietor in the neighbour-
hood—the Duke of Norfolk ; but that proposal was
resisted by the inhabitants of Arundel, because they
thought it would make Arundel a complete nominee
borough in the hands of the Duke, inasmuch as he
held very considerable property in the town of Arundel, but
had not complete power over it, whilst the whole town of
Littlehampton belonged to him, and the borough therefore
would have been entirely in his power. He was afraid such
things would happen when two or three small towns were
taken together, and therefore he could not think that
such a plan would have the effect of giving to the
people the full and free representation they ought to have.
The Noble Lord had omitted to mention one matter which
out of doors was considered of great importance—the short-
ening of the duration of Parliament, a proceeding which was
altogether essential to the rendering the representation of
the people what it ought to be, by rendering the representa-
tives earlier responsible to the people. He would repeat
that he regarded this measure as far from calculated to
satisfy the just expectations of the country. But, inasmuch
as it was a step in the right direction, as it destroyed for
ever the doctrine of finality, as it recognised that some-
thing ought to be done for the improvement of the repre-
sentation, he was ready to accept it as an instalment, with
the full purpose in his own mind to obtain still more so
soon as practicable- He trusted that the Noble Lord would
not listen to the insidious suggestions made to him for delay-
ing the measure, on the part of men who, had he taken a
different course, would themselves have been the first to re-
proach him with dilatoriness, and with a want of earnestness
of purpose—(Hear, hear)—and he trusted, at the same time,
that those who supported the Bill would also apply their
efforts to make it more practically efficient.
Mr. MAURICE O'CONNELL would not, on this occa-
sion, enter into the general character of the measure; but,
as an Irish representative and a Roman Catholic, he begged
to express his grateful thanks to the Noble Lord for having
done away with the present most insulting system of oaths ,
a relief which would be warmly appreciated in Ireland.—
(Hear, hear.) He trusted the Noble Lord would carry the
new principle beyond the walls of Parliament. He begged
to ask the Noble Lord whether there would be a separate Bill
for Ireland ?

Lord J. RUSSELL said that a separate Bill for Irelaud
would be brought forward on Friday.
After a few words from Captain HARRIS,
Leave was given to bring in the Bill.
The House adjourned at Half•past Ten o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 9.
Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from Ealing,
praying for the enfranchisement of copyhold tenure.
BRIBERY OATHS.

Lord BROUGHAM, seeing his Noble Friend the Presi-
dent of the Council, whose recent indisposition he greatly
lamented, once more in his place, would take the liberty of
putting a question to him. The Noble and Learned Lord,
who spcike in a tone of voice very indistinctly heard in the
gallery, then proceeded to give a summary of the oaths
which had recently been proposed by himself and others for
the prevention of bribery at elections. They were all in one
point or another defective; but much of the evil had been
cured by the Evidence Bill, which he kad himself introduced
into the statute-book; for now both the sitting Member and
the unsuccessful candidate for a seat were both liable to be
examined on oath, subject, no doubt, to their refusal to an-
swer any question which might criminate themselves, and to
'the consequences criminatory of themselves which might
result from their silence. Unquestionably, however, some-
thing more than the Evidence Bill was wanted to render
the law for the prevention of bribery perfect. He, there-
fore, hoped that her Majesty's Ministers would take the
subject under their consideration, as many instances
had occurred of late which confirmed rather than created
the existence of great bribery at elections. He bad a strong
notion that a hill might now easily be produced which, with
the Evidence Bill, would put a stop to these corrupt
.prac-
tices. The true course to be taken in order to extirpate
on
nribheis takingrywouldhbies
stooaetx,
aacdteforloamrateivonerythMatehmabheardofnPotlrblryament,
him-
self or his agents, directly or indirectly, given or promised
i a case
at.
kdee declaration
rrna tai okno
money or any other valuable thing to, or had used or pro-
mised to use any influence to procure a place or pension for,
any voter who had voted at his election, and that he was
wholly ignorant of any gift or promise made on his behalf
by auy such person to such voter, and that he wilily dis-
believed that any such thing had been done on his behalf;
and furthermore to bind himself by a solemn promise not to
pay any one thing, or to fulfil any one promise, or to do any
thing whatsoever to carry into execution the payment, or
premise, or engagement of his agents in his behalf. The
r
same declaration should also be exacted from the unsuccess-
ful candidate at the election for thexisneoeabatia,el
parnadctLiceeasrnheadd
Lordbeen
in ousting the sitting Member. That was he
succeeded
which he thought that no man would undr
question, if we heard him
unless he were convinced that no
committed at his election. The
A . N S askingp 0 _
1 ,a
Vn
I•Ty
E said that it would give
hc n correctly.inTchlteuh concluded
highest irgclhu withoutei satisfactionestefL
nfoorthtihneg
ecfforeroutuptailohn now prevalent at elections, for
griiidsnaeldYtisfaction in informinad).7et been done. He had also
hpceri
his Noble and Learned Friend
that the subject had already
aennogtaicgee! the
taht taedn tither ofbegeenr
other House of Parliament. e
given already, or would' b
tion on the part of her tlajestryr
given that very night, in the
corrupt and demoralizing practih'ceee There was
to9tyv
Government
speedy
oefindxyt etedon
dbd.reitn. egr ntrhi no as
e-
a notice of motion
already or would be egnivetniutshas
Lord BROUGHAM had
.great satisfaction hearing that
in
Go-
vernment. Had he known tubnjeigcththabdy
heistrhekabjeseetny,gsiGveon.
of that notice he would not have
said one word on this subject to their Lordships. He
hoped and trusted that there was sufficient virtue in the
other House of Porliament not to evade its duty on this
point.

AFFAIRS OF INDIA.

In reply to a request from the Marquis of LANSDOWNE,
The Earl of EL LENBOROUGH postponed till Monday
next the questions which he had intended to ask on this sub-
ject on Tuesday (this day).
STATE OF IRELAND.
The Earl of RODEN gave notice that he would, to-mor-
row, put a question to the Government with reference to
the melancholy state of the disturbed districts in the north
of Ireland. If the answer which he might receive should
prove unsatisfactory, he should feel it his duty to bring the
state of that part of the country under their Lordships' con-
sideration.
REFORM OF THE COMMON LAW.
The LORD CHANCELLOR wished to move the second
reading of the Common Law Procedure Bill. This was one
of the Bills which bad been mentioned in her Majesty 'e
Speech, and was founded on the recommendation of the Com-
missioners, who bad well considered the reforms which
might be introduced into the procedure of the common law.
Their Lordships were, doubtless, aware of the distinctions
which existed between that branch of the law by which
rights were determined, and that branch which regulated
the course of procedure by which those rights were pre-
sented for litigation. The present Bill belonged to the lat-
ter branch of the law, and it was addressed toremwediythu
thoseis.
defects and deficiences which were generally and
tics complained of. The present system of procedure ori-
ginated in a remote period. It was now inappropriate to,