The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-26 00:00:00

1832, which was intended by the promoters of it to be a per- I
manent and effectual adjustment of a very great question, it
was not advisable to disturb that question, because the ad-
vantages to be gained by it, whatever they might be, would
hardly compensate for the inconvenience that would be occa-
sioned by a new agitation of such a subject. But he did not
intend to exclude from the consideration of the House those
subjects which the Hon. and Learned Member for Sheffield
had mentioned—such as the case of persons having consider-
able sums in the savings bank, or of parties well educated and
fitted to exercise the franchise. There was no reason why,
as time advanced, such persons should not have the fran-
chise conferred upon them. But what his Right Hon. Friend
the Chancellor of the Exchequer meant to say was, that be-
fore they made any essential change in the constitution—
such a change, for instance, as that which was made in 1832
—there were two things always incumbent upon them to con-
sider ; first, whether any change was practically necessary ;
and, secondly, whether the change proposed would prove
permanently satisfactory.— (Hear.) Now, without entering
into the first of these considerations, he would content him-
self for the present with observing that the proposition intro-
duced by the Hon. Member for Middlesex had been 'shown
in the course of the debate to be one not such as would be sa-
tisfactory to the country. The object of the Hon. Member
appeared to have been completely answered, namely, that of
giving Hon. Members an opportunity of making such ob-
servations as they deemed necessary on the subject of Par-
liamentary reform generally. No specific plan being before
the House, he (Mr. Walpole) did not then feel it incum-
bent on him to give any opinion upon the subject of Par-
liamentary reform. Whenever any specific change in the
present system should be proposed he should then be pre-
pared to take it into consideration. and if any change should
be deemed necessary it would be his duty to see that it was
one that would prove practically expedient and satisfactory

;o the country.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS moved that the debate be adjourned.

Mr. HOBHOUSE seconded the motion.
Mr, HUME said he should be very sorry to be the means
of unneccessarily taking up the time of the House by having
the debate adjourned.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS regretted that he should feel it his
duty to oppose the wishes of his Hon. Friend, but, represent-
ing as he (Mr. Williams) did one of the largest constituen-
cies in the country, he was anxious to have an opportunity
of expressing his opinion upon a question which he considered
to be one of the greatest importance. Whenever any pro-
position was made to adjourn a debate from mere party pur-
poses he felt no disposition to aid such a coarse, but this was
a question in which the peopled of England took a great in-
terest. (Cries of "Go on !") No ; there were several
other Members anxious to express their opinions; he there-
fore thought in common fairness the debate ought to be ad-
journed.— (Cries of " Go on !")
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the
course taken by, the Hon. Gentleman was hardly fair to-
wards the Hon. Member for Middlesex. Whatever differ-
ence of opinion might exist between him (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) and the lion. Gentleman, he had
always entertained towards him the greatest respect,
I That Hon. Gentleman had brought forward the present
question several times, and he had done so on this occasion,
no doubt, without the slightest idea of a pending election.
He would have brought it forward under any other circum-
stances, for the purpose of eliciting a bona fide discussion.
The question had, accordingly, been fairly discussed by al-
most every Member who was in the habit of speaking on the
subject. But now the Hon. Member for Lambeth got up,
under the idea that the motion was brought forward for the
purpose of giving Hon. Members an opportunity of making
electioneering speeches. Nothing, he (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) was sure, was more contrary to the inten-
tion of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, and he considered
that the debate might now be fairly brought to a close to-
night.— (Hear, and Divide, divide.) lie hoped, therefore, the
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. W. Williams) would continue his
speech, which would, no doubt, be listened to with the utmost
attention.—(Cries of " Divide.")
Mr. BRIGHT did not often agree with the Right Hon
Gentleman who had last spoken, but on this occasion he was
disposed to do so. There was at present no really practical
question before the House; he did not know how long it
[night be before there would be. He certainly was of opinion
that many Hon Members were wrong in their opinions upon
the subject of Parliamentary reform. However, he hoped
his Hon. Friend (Mr. W. Williams) would on the present
occasion allow the House to go to a division. It was neces-
sary that they should go on with the business of the session.
He ha'l himself declined taking any part in the present dis-
cussion, although he felt a deep interest in it, because he
considered it desirable that they should not protract the
Hbusiness of the House.
Mr. F. PIGOTT said he should have had no- hesitation
in voting for the introduction of the Bill of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Montrose, but he wished to guard himself against
being considered as pledged to the details of the measure.
He thought, however, that the Hon. Gentleman had not
selected the most opportune time for bringing it forward,
The House was is a different position from that in which
it was placed at the commencement of the session, when
the Noble Lord the Member for London proposed his mea-
sure of Parliamentary reform ; but he hoped that if the
Noble Lord should again be in a situation to propose such a
measure those who now sat on the Opposition side of the
House would support him without being divided among
themselves. With respect to the present motion, he
thought that after the discussion that had taken place
it was of little consequence whether there was a divison
or not.
Mr. HORSMAN said, the reason for an adjournment
was less now than on former occasions, as it might be taken
that the motion of his Hon. Friend was rather for discussion
than to tend to any practical result.
Lord DUDLEY STUART—(amid loud cries of " Oh,
oh")—expressed his hoc e that the Hon. Member for Lambeth
would not press the adjournment of the debate. He stood
in the same situation as the Hon. Member as to represent-
ing a very large constituency. He had endeavoured five or
six times to address the House, but as he had not been for-
tunate enough to catch the Speaker's eye, he was quite
willing, as it was the wish of his Hon. Friend the Member
for Montrose, and of the House, that the debate should be
closed that evening, however desirous he was of addressing
the House, to forego doing so—(Hear, hear)—feeling
assured that his constituents had every confidence in him
and knew that he would support the measure of his lion.
Friend.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS then said he would not persevers
with his motion, especially after the reasons given by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME replied—The House would feel that he had
been placed in no very favourable position. With his oppo-
nents he was prepared to deal ; hut what could he say to
his friends around him 2—(A laugh.) One Hon. Member
told him that the present was not an opportune moment for
bringing it forward ; but the Hon. Gentleman must have
forgotten that he (Mr. Hume) gave notice last session of
this motion, and if, after the change that had taken place,
he had not brought it forward, it would have appeared that
he was afraid to face Hon. Gentlemen on the Ministerial
side of the House.—(Hear, hear.) Another Hon. Gentle-
man said the discussion would lead to no practical result;
but he (Mr. Hume) was perfectly satisfied, for it was enly
by discussion that the question could be fairly
and properly understood, and therefore every man
who wished to see a great question carried should
again and again urge it on the House until
it was settled. The speech of the Noble Lord
was in favour of one part of his proposition—and he consi-
dered it of vast importance—that members of the learned
professions and men of intelligence should be entitled to the
franchise; and with the Chancellor of the Exchequer he had
very little difficulty, for he could show that the speech of the
Right Hon. Gentleman had not been directed to anything
he (Mr. Hume) had said, and that as to everything he did
say the Right Hon. Gentleman was entirely wrong. It was
not with reference to the proportion of representation given
to the territorial as compared with other interests that he
had brought forward his motion. His object was to effect a
more equal distribution of the representation both in bo-
roughs and in counties. The statement of the Right Hon,
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with respect
to the number of voters, was incorrect ; the real propor-
tion of the voters to the population showed that the
voters were as one to five of the male population. There
Was not one statement made by the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman to which he was not prepared to give a direct nega-
tive—(Laughter from the Ministerial benches)—and if ex-
ceotions were taken to the plan of reform which he had
brought forward, let those who objected propose a better.
Ho hoped to live and see that plan carried out—( Hear)—
though the Right Hon. Gentleman had now thrown down
the gauntlet, declaring that he was not prepared to effect
any reform—(Cries of " No," from the Ministerial benches)
—and that he was prepared to stand by the results of the
contest in 1832. To those results the party of the Right
Honourable Gentleman were then opposed. He did not
know whether it was to be taken for granted that the Tory
party was resuscitated, for he thought it had expired; but
if it were resuscitated, it was against that Tory party that
he hoped to carry the reform he had proposed.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion ••• ••• •••
89
Against it .• ••• ••• ••• 244
Majority against the motion ... —155
The Indemnity Bill was read a third time and passed.
The Copyright Amendment Acts went through Com-
mittee.
The Burghs (Scotland) Bill went through Committee
pro forma.
The report upon Common Law Fees Regulation (Salaries)
was brought up and received.
The House adjourned at One o'clock.

We are requested to state that Colonel S. Tynte is pre-
vented attending his Parliamentary• duties by a severe neu-
ralgic attack, which confines him to his residence.
Colonel Clifford paired, in favour of Mr. flume's motion,
with Mr. S. Cocks against.

s TO THE _EDITOR OF THE SUN.
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obliged by y" 1A a evening, from Mr. Longhurst. I should feel
o's;lrinserting the following, which I addressed to
e, e Morning Chronicle and Morning Post, on
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your journal, orThollvas not aware that it was copied in
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