The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-25 00:00:00

`L,

poor-htire Board did "Sras simple to issue to those
Parishes rules and regulations forithe relief of the poor,
reserving at the same time that power over the local
, officers which was necessary to their very ladPl),,n'
deuce, bat not venturing to break throush the c nstitsi
tio n established under those local nets. It th:., Pour-law
Board Wgis to exempt places under keel Acts from these
Ira sad regulations, under what pretence could that
Beard ba maintained at all for the supervision of the
boardsof guardians? ' For the reasons he hed stated he
Rai the House would not assent to the mode:, of the
no obl' e Lord, seeing that the Noble Lord had made out
Sir G. PECHELL said the night Honouree::
felon
J. Trollope) had attempted to throw doubts
rthe statements of the Noble Lord, and had read
f
d'om certain disconterred persons, whom he
Called the parish," and then he said the' parishes in
:I,l,2e!tlorewere demanded to be relieved o:n the control
vestry. But. the Right Hon. Geraleman heti
1,1e0,9 to show anything like discontent amen,;amen,;the in-
,taitania of 'those parishes with the existing mode of
Government.- The conduct pursued
gas Gentleman in reference to this tenestian
wan monstrous.
plied by the ,Right
The Right Hon. Gentlemen had re-
madee)the Noble Lard just as if the Noble Lord hied
poses.
b
the motion before the House for party .ur
could be more unfair then that, for the Noble Lord,
r 6Ll' George Pechell) and those with whom they acted,
had been for a length of time pressing upon d
tro'rerninents to give boards of guardians that control.'
over their expenditure which tey ought to leiyeo; a d
ae contended that from 1837 toh March, 1852, wit ohe
eseePtion, no motion had been made in that House in
regard to the management of the poor under local Acts,
With a view merely to embarrass the Government for the
Ithialee ks3;eteient warned the Right Hon. Baronet that if
lion of loeslof interference with towns under the opera.
Acts was continued, it would cause such an
amount of remonstrance, that sooner or latter redress
would bainevitable. It was within his own knowledge
that in the parish of Alverstoke, although it had been
Shown by the Poor-law Inspectors themselves that it
Was exceedingly well managed, the Poor-law Board had
inflicted on that parish such rules and regulations that it
required a lawyer and a special pleader to understand
them. • Having called the attention of the House to the
various reports on the subject, he trusted that the motion
of the Noble Lord would be successful, and he would
Only propose to add to it such words as would exemt
from the operation of the Commissioners those parishes
Which were incorporated by the 22d Geo. 111., c. 33. He
trusted that, at least, ho should receive such an amount
lof support from Hon. Members ns would induce the
llght Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer to stay the
ands of the Poor-law Commissioners with respect to
these incorporated parishes.
Mr. BAINES said that, as he believed the amendment
of_ the Noble Lord the Member for Marylebone to be
hstalitially that the House should now declare that
henceforth the jurisdiction of the Poor-last Commis•
lieeers Should not extend to any parish which was un-
der
the management of a board of guardians formed
gate
a local Act, he should feel it his duty to oppose
tion. There could be no doubt whatever but that
general Poor-law Amendment Act the Legisla-
e intended that the powers of the Poor-law Commis-
lifters should extend to parishes governed by local
It These powers consisted in the general regulation
Management of .workhouses, and in the appointment
boar! snid officers for the better relief of the poor, the
id at the same time possessing the power of direct-
ag the tenure by whichsuch officers should hold
their ee
Pnee Gw-oe, and upon every occasion upon which the
Hill had been before Parliament these
.-wWs had been preserved to the Commissioners.
ils-re'ear, hear.) In order to preserve uniformity in
e arattosment of workhouses, as well as for the se-
untY oft he officers, it was absolutely necessary that
sae nothing
powers should exist. But at the same time there
in these powers which could be considered
e !nosed to the boards of guardians; on the contrary,
;lieEttibad considered during the whole of the time that he
held office,' that his denies were rather to co-ope-
rate with than to controul the boards of guardians. In
m!loy instances, however, he had felted that the corn-
Plaints of the poor-law officers had originated in mere
they feuds, or in an attempt to reduce the salaries of
officers below the amount which he thought requisite
al. Order to secure efficiency. He believed that he had
oh several occasions prevented by his interference many
Worthy men from losing their situations in consequence
of these attempts on the pert of boards of guardians:
Miring the time be had held office, he had never inter-
fered in parishes under local acts, unless at the desire of
the guardians themselves, or in cases where he had
them to helieve, upon clear and satisfactory evidence,
that there were abuses in the management of the
Pariah, to which it was his duty to apply such re-
bted„,, y as the law afforded him the means of doing.
'tile Member for Brighton threw out against him what
e deemed a personal imputation. He read to the
dousee4 a list of places with which, he said, the- [louse
- had not interfered so as to abolish their local control,
and he laid special stress on the word "Hull." Now
'what were the facts? He had not been two years in
ernac When he was informed that the administratien of
the poor-law was essentially defective in Hull; that two
deaths had taken place there owing to the want of pro-
ler precaution. Notwithstanding the representations
;which were made and urged upon him, ho declared his
Intention of putting in force the consolidated workhouse
Zeal and persevered in that intention—and what was
th consequence? Why, that all parties now agreed
at it was the best thing which could have happened
for them.—(Hear, hear.) If his administration had nut
been honest, he had no claim to recommend him,—
(Cheers.) The second ground on which he rested his
TPpeosition to the motion of his Noble Friend was this.
Were
re were in England 375 parishes, whose affairs
regulated by directors, under local Acts. the
!threat majority of these parishes had been long and
gnat
oacg ago under the regulation of the Poor law
adrd. A very small number still regulated their
own affairs. In a great many cases this had been done
upon the petition of the guardians themselves. In other
oases Parliament had interfered because grave abuses
ere brought under the notice of the Poor-law Board.
Whatoti would be the effect then of adopting this resolu-
, Zak "That it be an instruction to the Committee. to
44(litit_e roor-law Commission any parish,
th Provision for exempting from the jurisdiction of
the management
4047 r the poor whereof is regulated by a board of directors
efete,vr guardians, under a local Act or local Acts of Parlia-
-101,, !lent?" It would be not only to protect parishes from
future interference; but it would be to undo all that has
stl: been done, and throw upon these parishes the sole admi-
eeollllistration of the
-• poor-law.—(Hear, hear.) Another
insintreas on why it was impossible he could support this pro-
olque Position was this:—If these parishes governed by local
IVl,,,:Acts were to be exempted, he should be glad to know on
d 44, 'What grounds Parliament could maintain a jurisdiction
sly.: over other boards of guardians? The highest noblemen
ca, 10 the land acted as chairmen in the sittings of the boards
bs'ea of guardians. The Duke of Richmond, the Right Hon.
t'k.a.tel,‘"2°ntleman the Secretary of State for the Colonies, us
44„. 7ell as a host of' other distinguished persons, took part
!fa the administration of the law in their respective dis-
- ltlets, and if they did not find it a humiliation to put
in force the' consolidated rules, he did not see how
the gentlemen of St. Pancras or Marylebone could
eomplain.—(Hear, hear,)
nee, Captain PECHELL assured the Right Hon. Gentle-
man that he did not mean any imputation whatever, and
if he laid stress upon the word Hull, it was merely to
attract his attention, he being Member for that town.
He, on the contrary, had endeavoured to pay him the
highest compliment, and his regret was that he had not
•, remained longer in office.
tai t. Mr. L&SLETT thanked the Noble Lord far having
"'gat the subject under the notice of the House. lie
had, some experience of the working of the poor law,
and he considered that some amendment in the law was
' necessary.
Mr. J. A. SMITE' believed that the poor-law had
effected great improvements; but at the same time he
must express considerable regret at the manner in which
•-• the motion of th e Noble Lord the Member for Meryle-
bona had been received. It appeared to him that the
public had a right to understand on what principhs this
` interference complained of took plane.
In the case of
Chichester,the which he represented, ,
anor-iaw Board
interfered;
he did not object, nor was the conduct pf the
Board complained plained of. The guardians of Chichester had
any complaints what-
. carried on their bu_sineairstiththosuint
• As this was so, he
. Waver being
urged aga
wanted to
principle interference had k a
parishes were
; • . did not know o
to know why, when
Place; He Chichester should have been excluded.
bore testimony to the abilityadministrationerha4heifi
• still exempt,
Mr. HUME Win& d the
and fairness hichtherenev
s, the Right Hon. Gen
which cthleawraocnt,eorifsew
'th
any complaint. W 1 regard to the parish of Maryle-
affairs were not in that %tate he
bone, he admitted their
ese, could wish them to be; abuseshad crept in, and abuses
correct. With regard to St. Pan-
eras, Ile understood the
took a long time to
phor.
law board had interfered
• '
the
g
servants. A majority
own
with the employment of theirltoof the board of uardiansf the parish had come
conclusion that one of the public servants employed
13Y -them was unworthyto bolding o
ffice9 and he was dis-
f
in London had nlissed; the general board sitting awe,
his
re.iosti..
inter-
fered
and applied for a mandamus_
to co
e tution; that was. be considered, contrary to common
;rte
discontent and alarm
o
and ealcalated to excitethe 'Luse
--ewe° therefore,
eghout the country. He hoped,
d to, and that
would be agreed
the „, ow. this instruction to
clause, ex-
ld introduce a d
Alght lion. Gentleman Would
of the boar
• "'Pang these parishes from the powers
Majority of the ratepayers required it
of Alver-
j Sir -TRorzoPE. said neither in tee casech.
'lever
see '• cone of le
,of St. pelmets of Marylebone, or
been
e. had the by him; they had
• orders been signed
"R;euj)Yhis predecessor in office. the
P—`l. D. HALLremindedthe House that when
oe
-er-saw Bill was last to be renewed the greatest por-
e lion of the Hon. Members who now sat upon the G
r of
yeeermaeot benches not only spoke but voted in favou.
''nlll.°P4sition that the board should cease and deters
Se believed it was the present Judge-Advocate who
• Moved that the Bill be read a second time that day three
Months. He, therefore, had hoped that this amendment
r. WOUld not have been opposed. The board of guardians
of the. St. Pancras union desired to dismiss one of their
officers. The general board said they might pay their
Officers, but they should not dismiss them without first
obtaining their consent; and the board now petitioned
• • the House to be excluded from the operation of the ge-
• • 11,.."%1 poor-law. The Strand Union was au instance of
Government control not having prevented the mu-,t hor-
rible and disgusting occurrences which could take place
eller public establishment. With regard to Maryle-
?St .bone, the body was stamped us apolitical body by the
act of one of the Members of the Government. It was
in this way—there was no returning officer in Maryle7
bone; the returning officer was the churchwarden; there
s„ k Were two churchwardens; one was eotede by
the vestry,
the other by .he Crown. Lord Portman aura;' tied Lord
• Kenyon, and continued in the offioe und-r several Admi-
nistrations; but the moment the Noble Lord, the pre-
sent Commissioner of Works, found there was a vacancy,

which occurred annually, that moment Lard Portman
was summarily &sulissed; no cetninniiiestioo ria3 "`P=t
to him; Lard Portman was in the eetintry, ait,rt -on his
return he found a notice on his had be,r.
supers,.ded by the Government; there i;rii ate one word
of expl.uistion, and the political partisan of the Gov,re-
moot in the parish was itvtittited in his stetrd. The
parishes complained that they wore not allowed to ma•
nage their own affairs, and that msudatnuces were ap-
plied fur to th,-m. fie thoul:bt, uo,ler the cir-
cumstances, that the motion of his Noble Friend was a
very fair one, and he hoPed he -would press it to a di-
vision.—(Hear.)
Mr. JACOB BELL %indicated the conduct of the
parish of Marylebone at some length,. end contended
that the aspersions which had been cast upon them had
been undwserved.
Mr. HENLEY said that thelionse had nothing to do
with the management, good or •bad; ot the Marylebone
vestry. Tee only quution before Howe was rhethrr
the authority of toe Poor law Board ought to I.m) oc.
losschtaoltu:lllede
itb:re. epuoia2i no
tended to parishes having
should, reason
why
therefore,the e x uteP
Lord. and he

CX`or t.

Mr. WAKLEY raw no relson wley a continuance Act
should be new lucrodeeed, ivasenteet as the Poor-law
Board would not expire till next year. What, was
wanted was a poor-hew court, with a poor-law judge,
where applications from different parishes could. be heard
and decided in pnblie, and then in a short time you would
have a code of laws for your guidance. He trusted that
the Government when relinquish this Bill.
Mr. W. wiLuAgs hoped that the Right Honour-
able Baronet oppesito would 'consent to withdraw all in-
tHerofu'e:n:vtoulwd sift
parishes and their etlairs, or that the
Stuart).
Pii°l.t •
the motion of the Noble Lord
(Lord Dudley
Lord EI3IIINGTON would suggest to the Right Hon.
Baronet that he should look very carefully in., the state
of the metropolitan workhouses,. in some of which
there had been of late a very alarming amount of mor-
tality. He (Lord Ehrington) would give his support to
the Bill.
The Marquis of GRANBY was quite tired of hearing
the uncontradicted statements of Hon. Members respect-
ing the universal employment of the lower orders.—(oh,
oh, and Hear, hoar.) The Hon. Member for Finsbury
said that there was less pressure in the workhouses in
consequence of the increased employment, but could the
same be said of some parts of Ireland, where they were
told the assistance of the soldiery was required to main-
tain
order? The Honourable Member fur Montrose had
told them the other evening that there were ,thousands
of unemployed persons- in Scotland who ought to be
sent to Australia, and to-morrow night there -was to be
a ball in London in aid of those who were out of em-
ployment in this city.. With these facts before him, he
confessed that he was tired of hearing it asserted that
-there were no persons out of employ.ment.--(l.le'ar.)
Lord R. GROSVENOR was ono of those who had
voted fur tho original Bill. He. should be sorry that all
central power should now be withdrawn,. for be thought
that the poor would suffer by it.. It.appeared,there was
a doubt with regard to the law. This might bean instrur
ment of very great torture to the rate payers.. Therefore
ho would vote that an amendment should be made.
Sir DE LACY EVANS offered a few observations
in favour of his amendment-, which, however, could not
be moved. He said that to leave the nomination of the
officers in the vestry, and the removal of them not in the
vestry, would be to take from the vestry all its aetho-
city together. If subordinate officers in the army could
say to their superior that his orders were not It gsl, and
that their legality must be shown before they Were com-
plied with, they eoul ! not.get on. And this Was not all
for it the arguments which he opposed were good, the
whole of the vestries should be put au end to, god com-
plete centralization established.. At any rate, it was
quite c!,•ar that the two systems could not go together.
Lord DUDLEY STUART explained that ho did not
mean anything beyond making those parishes which
nad local Acts independent of the Poor-law Board.
The House thut dtvided, when the numbers were--
... 112
Mej d'ity ... —79
The House then resolved itself, into a Committee, Mr
BERNAL in the chair,

Ayes ...
Nkns ...

On clause 1 being propeed,
Lord DUDLEY STUART moved that the blank be
fill,d up with the worth °•- fitty-tiaree" instead of fifty-
four," his übject tieing to limit the duration of the Bill to
one year.
Mr. SOTHERON thought it Trould be much better

to extend the time to . five years, the period for
which the original Bill:. was passed, and gave notice of
his intention to move: the insertion of words to that
effect.
After a few words from Mr. Bouverie, Mr. Abel
Smith, and Sir J. Trollope,
The Committee divided on the proposition that the
blank be tilled up with the words " fifty-four."
Fur the amendment ... 26
Against it ... ... 72
Mejority for " fifty-four" ... —46
On our return to the gallery,
Mr. J. A. SMITH complained of certain new regula-
tions which had beeu thrust upon the Chichester board
of guardians since the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
came into office.
Sir JOHN TROLLOPE explained that these regula-
tions, though sent out by him, had been prepared by his
predecessor. •
The Bill then went through Committee.
Sir BENJAMIN HAUL wished to ask the Hon.
Metot:er for Wiltshire whether he intended to take any
other opportunity of moving that the Poor-law Bill he
continued for five years?
Mr. SOI'HERUN took that opportunity of giving nc-
tice that, on the report being brought up, he would move
that the 1301 be continued for five years.
Sir BENJ AMIN HALL said he would give such a
proposition all the oppo.ition in his power, and hoped
the matter would be brought on at a period of the
evening when it could be lull discussed.
Mr. WALTER also would oppose that proposition.
If the Bill was to be continued from time to time the
oftener it was brought under revision the better.
Tee House then resumed; the report to be brought up
on Thursday.
The Turnpike Trusts Arrangements Bill passed
through Committee
The Differential Dues Bill was read a third time and
passed.
On the question that the Passengers' Act Amendment
Bill be farther considered,
Mr. CARDWELL reminded the Right Hon. Colonial
Secretary that his Hon. Friend the Member for South
Lancashire and himself had a clause to bring forward
relating to the passenger-fee levied on emigrant vessels.
He did not complain of the lateness of the hour (it was
now a quarter past one o'cluck), but the debate would
occupy some time; however, if tne Right Hon. Gentle-
mau widied to go on he (Mr. Cardwell) was ready. •
Sir JOHN PATEN CT rON thought the debate might
'go on; he did not think it would occupy much time.
Mr. WILLIAM BieOWN hoped the consideration of
the Bill would be postponed. He expected great.sym-
pathy from Hon. Members opposite, as his clause would
to some extent relieve the shipping interest, but the
House was very thin at present, and most of theMensbers
he referred to were absent.
The Bill was then postponed to Thursday next.
The Committee on the Grand Juries (Metropolitan
Districts) Bill, was postponed to Friday next, after some
remarks from Mr. Stuart Wortley, objecting that the
8.11 wout too far, and suggesting that it would be batter
to retain the power of summoning grand juries with
limited powers.
rho Eeelesiestical Courts (Criminal Jurisdiction) Bill
passed through Committee.
Tee Inland Revenue Office Bill, the Hereditary Casual
Revenues in the Colonies Bill, the Excise Summary Pro-
ceedings Bill, and the Bishopric of Quebec Bill were
severally read a second time and ordered to be com-
mittpd.
The Masters' Act Extension Bill was committed Iwo
forma in order to be re-committed on Friday next.
The Nisi Prins Officers (Deficiency of Fees, &c.) Bill
passed thraieh Committee. •
Mr. STAFFORD moved for, and obtained leaVe to
bring in a Bill to amend the Act 11 Geo. IV., c. 20.
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON. moved for, and obtained
leave to bring in a Bill to alter Lind amend ciettain Acts
relating to the Woods, Forests, and Land Revenues of
the Crown.
The. House then adjourned at 20 minutes before Two
o'clock. •

• _ .
HOUSE OF LORDS, /gay 24.
Woo'
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat ou the : .
sack at Five o'clock.
' - MR. COBBETT'S CASE.
Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from Mr.
aesso Ohitield, complainit.g of the present state of tb.
law 'fill regard to actions • i.rought in form
Po,up,ef.i.F and writs, of habeas corpus, and
a
Preying for ' some alteration in the • law.
Mr. Oldfiarl'stated that he had been a party to the ori-
guir;ale'Webelbletktnown proceedin va.in. consequence
pbisOno:cgteitc.eoutnbe,
moved
orea
iisal9nB had been committedl' to the Queen's Bench
prison, and that since that time—tho commencement of
of- which
tdhf9.
broughti
a)
at
t it
abl4sgtyebhaveet:vninpese
.Ico 00 b
by veitt.s
and o f habeas be
vasta s corpusnumbly hadof
rtgeschtiiemiollatbaty,i,mMer.tiCleorbabivetetr,ealeleiwn forma
peed
by Mr. Cobbett. also brought against him
ttettedr(A
elseiwpwßoßrdLsLfrinomevted lte
fora ORrDeteC! of ANtCbe number
of of writs of banes:; corpus movtd for by Mr. Cobbett since
the Ist October', 1839.
Tho return -was agrveeEiTtorr.
lONS..
The Duke of NEWCASTLE presented a petition
from builders and others in the. metrupoliS, praying for
holds,
theTTelf•r'Le.ll;eismh?ptooffeiCiPAY CANTERBURY presented a
ooth ',Alt. • •
f Lord COLCHESTER, the Stook ta
:I.ljodu,,f,,lttinateiiiiiet.-50olutack the
fill
d •
n)t the ni.ya g
Z'rile:rld:ththirirddbtriiiimilmgPilaain:dudp2P'';;;:r.e:P
f the same NOBLE LORD die Highway
petooitnniottnhhoeegin:
t):: ion o
Trtraa•edse
BBiill:
vi's
""f
l'i- the ort on the
On the million , .
re
Bill,
rsuT s
dtatatitef.iii'st
totub' nit3ociurovh.rdni'ma:oeonemte,
tiorivv:ioni
asst, Lt
theyoY Ntlht
e)Phi
d d the r„ dress of it :Leanod
mittee. He would app r the
"'°'
Id to
CaUurmosm.i.lithitkjt:this BllrietwiatB_o4
wT-•)ireathier°,PiPn'sliatet, had ' it
facilitate its progress. In fret,.,_ ,i! the N b.l„
vt,hbeeythila.
had not
edov..Nii,
aeosba
11
its
And Li- arntd - Lord on the 1, , 0 Ittliehdyi3' coguoblenesdeu.
would. long —ago hay., Da:ihvd thYsi
eat 'Ito:iv:coo -seo
Thi• Bill itsi,;.lf was o4.lcWnled to In ci) W
it number of
the public, and would do away with u gr'''''.7 , ded the
techeicalities which at present very much nut''' '
e
due administradon of justice. The Noble and Larned .
_.,..h
Lord proceeded to quote a number of instances 112 WU"'

the evids j•W;Fee bm,n defeated by the court bay-
iPg pushed the technicali..ies of Oho law 0 a raost absurd

CRAICWORTH concurrod in the extreme itll•
poNao.c9, ofte nutnsure.•,•. •
rarrort thea c.nd the "Bin. vas
d,r.cd to be reed a third time on Thursday mat.

Pl-I()PERTY-TAX CONTINUANCE BILL.
The Earl of DERBY, in moving the second reading of
the abevo Bill, spoke as follows:—My Lords, although it
has been suggested by a Noble Friend of mine that it would
he desirable to read the Property Tax Continuance Bill
merely pro forma, with a view of postponing the discussion
upon it in going into Committee, I think under the peculiar
circumstances in which we are placed es regards public base.
rie,s auth a course would be attended with inconvenience to
Noble Lords on the opposite side of the House, as well as to
Seale on the Ministerial side It is important that thie 13JI
should receive the loyal assent with as little delay as. posse::
ble. I therefore submit to your Lordships the propositiPe -
that von will now read a second time the Bill, for the Contin-
uance of the property and income-tax for one year longer.
In bringing this subject before your Lordships it will not
of course be expected that I should go into ally details as
to the state of the revenue and expenditure of the country,
or as to the particular reasons which have induced the
Government to propose the re, ewal of this tax. Your Lord-
ships must be well aware that at the commencement of the
present session, upon the change of the Goverument, there
was a general understanding on the part of this as well as
the other House of Parliament that with the exception of
Such measures as were not likely to lead to serious differences
of opinion, no business was to be brought forw rd by her
Majesty's Ministers. Her Majesty's Government have even
declared that in the present session of Parliament it was
not their intention to introduce ally measure that would be .
likely to involve any seriolis conflict of opinions, and more
especially in regard to questions affecting the finances of the
country.—(Hear, hear.) There was, my Lords, more than
this understanding-there was a distinct _declaration that no
incasure materially affecting the commercial or fiscal condi-
tion of the country would be introduced into Parliament
this session. The question, then, for the consideration of her
Majesty's Government, was not whether any alteration.
could be made in the fiscal or commercial policy of
the country, or whether they could make such alter-
tions in the revenue and expenditure of the country as
might enable them to dispense with a tax of this
character, the objections to which be should .be the last
man to undervalue.—(llear, hear.) But, my. Lords, the
question was, whether any alteration of the tax itself,
whether by any new arrangement of the system under
which it was levied, it would be possible for us to dispense
with either the whole or any portion of it. Now, I think a
single word will satisfy your Lordships, that, even if it had
been desired- wholly to. dispense-with this tax, which was
levied originally for -a temporary purpose, and which I
still hope may be looked upon as temporary, but •is
merely continued from year to year to meet the pressing
necessity of the case— I think your Lordships will agree with
me, that unless we feel ourselves in a position for making
some general or final arrangement in respect to the
whole . system of taxation, it would be inexpedient
to continue the whole or any • portion of the tax, at
least for the present.—(Hear, hear.) But practically speak-
log we had no alternative, placed before us; for though
there is a surplus of income over the expenditure of last year
—yet as an important alteration in the taxation of the
country had taken place, the effect of which did not come.
into full operation until the present year—it was difficult to.
say what the result of such alteration would be upon the
revenue of the country. If the income tax bad been alto-
gether taken off in the course of this year, we may reason-
ably calculate .that at the close of the financial year, ittetead
of this surplus, there would be a deficiency of income to
the amount of 2,500,0(101. And by the loss of the remaining
half of the income tax that would fall upon the following
year, thetesult of ,our not renewing it wouldbe this—that in
the year of 1853 we would And ourselves in a .deficiency to
the amount of about 5,000,0001.—(Hear.) The statement
which my Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer submitted to the House of tommons a few.evenings ago
went to show that the result of obtaining-the whole tax,
supposing that no alteration had been made he the receipts,
would be, on the best calculations, to give ato
surplus of
450,00 e/• upon the revenue of this year. This
,is a surplus
which I think is not more than - is absolutely necessary
meet the probable, exigencies of the State, and the call that
may be made on us for increased expenditure.. Nor is it
more than is necessary for us to keep as a balance in hand
fir the maintenance of public business:—(Hear, hear.)
Under these circum-tances, feeling . ourselves bound by the
stipulation which we have entered into—not to introduce, in
the present.seelion, any material alteration into our financial
or fiscal regeilations—and I will-also. fairly admit, not having
the opportunity of considering or of proposing to Parliament
tiny matured plan'for the: arrangement of our fiscal afleirs,
though we should even consider such to b® ultimately expe-
dient—her Majesty's Government feel that they have no al-
ternative, while desirous to retain a surplus revenue, and
having a due regard to the maintenancee of public faith and
public security—they, I say, feel that they have no
alternative than to make that proposition which I pow sub-
mit to your Lordships, namely, tcecontinue without alteration
or amendment the existing property •tax for another year,
in order to afford us -in the interval the fullest
opportunity of considering whether it will be prac-
ticable to make any alteration in the financial system of the
country, and to dispense with the whole or any portion of
this tax —(dear, hear.) At the same time I should be de-
ceiving your Lordships --I should not, I think, be acting a
frank or honest part if I were to hold out any very sanguine
expectations that this would be the last occasioe.upon which
-I should deem it necessary to subenitto this 1:10us3 a propo-
sition for the renewal of the tax, , While .1 . say this, my
Lords, I cannot but admit the strength •of the arguments
that are urged for,the removal or modification. of the tax,
because I think, not only that it is one which oughtnot to be
resorted to except for the purposes of war, and should not be,
looked upon as part of the ordinary resources of the country,
but also because, from, the best considerations that I have
been able to give it, and from the considerations given to it
by successive Committees of the other House of. Parliament,
I believe the difficulties are almost insuperable which stand
in the way of diminishing its injustice and inequality.
(Hear.) With that impression, I should be.glad if the present
state of the revenue, or looking forward for, a year or two, I
should, I say, be happy if the revenue were in such a state as
would enable me to hold out expectations of the reduction or
the abolition of this tax. But I think the course which the
Government is taking, of proposing to continue it for the pre-
sent year, is that which affords to Parliament the fairest and
best opportunity of considering the practicability in a future
session of Parliament of its entire abolition or reduction ;
and I, for one, am willing to rest the proposition for the cone
tinuance of the tax for another year simply upon the ones.
tion of necessity, for the purpose of maintaining the public
credit.—(Hear, hear.) If it can be shown in any future
session that the credit of the country can be maintained, and
that our finances can be upheld with due consideration for
the expenditure of the country,.l shall be the first to rejoice
at the abolition of the tax. And if it should fall to the lot of
the Government of which I am a member to submit to Par-
liament a proposition for the repeal, or even for the reduc-
tion of a tax which in its operation I believe to be not only
unpopular, but justly so, no One will be more
rejoiced at• having such a duty to discharge. Under the
circumstances then ems which we stand —with the under-
standing that we have a prospect at no distant
.peried
that the policy of this tax. will be:duly considered,
as well as our commercial and financial policy generally,. I
trust that your Lordships will.not only. give your tareconsen t
the second reading, but in the position in hich e
now placed, you will be also of opinion that the continuance
of this tax for a single year is the only course it is possible
for her Majesty's Government under the circumstances to
take. I have, therefore, to move
secondL 0 r dSb
time.
p tb a t the
Property Tax'Continuance
The Duke of NEWCASTLE was exremely, sorry to tres-
passcame to a final decision -upon the question. He was the upon their Lordships for a short time before they
more anxious to do so because it was not his intention to
obTeere3a'oduar
oppose the second reading; on the contrary, he wieuld giv
ite
the measure his cordial assent. Nevertheless, he felt
desirable, in the present • state of the country, that there
should be a 'discussiene -upoa. the . financial affairs of the
country. He would remind their Lordships of the circum-
stances under which this tax .originated, and was continued
by successive• Governments. • The Noble Earl would forgive
him for referring to a statement which 'he made.last year
in respect to this subject. The Noble Earl's statement on
the present occasion as to this tax being originally pro-
posednot the whole truth.- The tax was originally proposed, not
as a temporary measure, was the. truth, but it was
only for the purpose of meeting
a temporary OficiencY,
but also of enabling- the Government to deal with the other
revenues of the State in such a manner as.would enable them
to dispense with it as a permanent tax. . In 1840,
the Chan-
caller of the Exchequer of that day, being in a deficiency,
recommended, as an experiment, that 10 per cent. should be
added to the direct taxes of the country, and 5 per cent. to
the indirect taxes. 'What wa's the result? The 10 per cent.
brought in the whole amount of the tax contemplated; but
the 5 per cent. returned something less than .e. per
cent. upon
the calculations of• • the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The
fact was thus proved that the taxes upon , articles of con-
sumptidn had reached their utmost limits. It was therefore
necessary, with a view-to their reduction, that in, the mean-
while an income-tax should be reimposed. That Was the
policy of the late Siteßobert Peel in 1842.' .On the 19th of
May, the Noble Earl, in reply to . the • Noble Marquis the
then President of the Council, said he was prepared to iote
for the abolition of the property-tax, as such a (system 4f,
taxation was calculated to bring 'ruin: on the coantry, He
(the Noble. Duke) contended that...all the evidence they
could obtain went to-shoev. that this system of taxation
had conduced considerably to the prosperity,of the coun-
try. As one of The strongest proofs of. such prosperity, he
need only refer to the-late speech. of. the Chancellor of the
Exchequer: Within the last ten years there had been a
remission of taxation amounting to .about 12,000,0001., not-
withstanding which the feetenue of the country coal in as
prosperous a state as ever it. was before such remission, and
the comforts and-happiness of the people had been, consi-
derably increased. Of coffee, in . 1841, there I were
28,500,0001b5. consumed, ev.hile in the laat,year the quan-
tity was 32,500,0001 be. Tea, in 1841 ,was 36,500,0001b5.,
whereas in 1851 it -rose to 54,000,00a1b5. The consump-
tion of sugar in .1841 was 4,000,000 cwts.;_ia 1851 it was
6,500,000. Cocoa, in-1811, was 2,000,000 cwt.;
.whereas in
1851 it rose to nearly 3,000,000 cwt.. .oar expOrts increased
within the time more than 50 per cent., . and -.our imports
more than 70 per cent. , What, however, was the case with-
America? Why, the last speech of the President of the,
United States contained sti paragraph lamenting the large
exports of specie which were gradually leaving .the coffers of
'the country; while; on the contrary, the specie in the doffere
of this wintry had increased tremendously within the last
few years. t might be said that the discovery of the gdld
mines in California 'lte led to such a result. Why, this was
a fact that told altogether against the Noble Lord's argu-•
ments, and rendered a return to protection absolutely impos-
sible. Ho had listened to the Chancelloieof the. Exchequer's
admissions as to thee result of their legislation in reference
to: sugar with the 'greatest pleasure, because it was a
triumphant
_proof of, the success of such legislation. The
advantages gained from the repeal of the navigation-laws
were equally apparent. There has not only beep a large
increase in the shipping, butethere has been a corresponding
increase in the 'number of seamen employed. Besides that
the transit trade had grown up to a position of the greatest
importance. Some of the chief ports of the country, such as
null, would soon .become entrepots of intercourse between
Europe and America, 'and in spite of the declatnatioes of
"G. Fe Young' the effects of the repeal of the navigation-
laws had been favourable to the shipping interest.; ,Vessels,
ate nbw built cheaper and
of
d yachtingbes
affected
better; than they been, as Noble
Lords who were
importanteeewtidere well aware. Ano
ther stead a Most point was the wayin which the'
agricultural interest ha
corn-laws. 'Putting •asidethe by the repeal of the
farmers;vaiat had been•she-eealt ff'ets
'upon the landlords and
population of the • country ? ‘c;.,eupon the great bulk of the,
merely into the markets of marketttheie Lordships go, not
and converse with those who bought
and sold there, but go
towns on market days,
among the people; let them follow
i
House In those• domiciliary' visits which
of thoeaher
have to. laugh)— and he, they would soon
wou'd soon find the altered position of
thpeereuaded they
iuhebitants:
Ile did' Dot- merely speak •of the great bivetoof
popula-
tion, Glasgow and Birmingham, Liverpool , and Zaraster,
'
but of county towns of 8,000 or 10,000. inhabitanti_euec
h as

Salisbury or Grantham—or he might mention a place from
which a warning voice had that night been heard—
Wicdsor. Hon. Members of the other House would aesu-
redly discover that there had been a great alteration since
Coen last-visit in 1847.—(A laugh.) They would find a
sinerked,improvAnent, which could only be attributed to a
d, crease in the price of provisions. They .- ward 'he
told all this by the women.—(Laughter.)- Noble Lords
might laugh, but there was no surer indicetian of--the do-
mestic condition of the people than the account which the
women would give on electi-,n occasions. And he declared
that if two per cent. of the female portion of the population
asked for a restoration of the corn laws, or any equivalent,
to deprive them of what they called the " cheap loaf," he
(the Duke of Newcastle) would surrender the question.
He believed that, on the contrary, tales would be heard
from the wives and daughters of working men more pathetic
in their humble prose than 'he forcible poetry of': Corn-law
Rhymes," tales as powerfully proving the folly of restoring
the corn laws as those rhymes -showed .the folly of .ree
taining them. Why, the importation of corn arnoluated to
nearly 10,0e0,000 quarters! Did not the very impertatinft
of that quantity prove that it was wanted? Was it net
clear that the provision for the labouring clasaes had been:,
made a certainty, which before had been matter of specula-
tion? And was there any ore prepared to take a course
which would deprive them of this supply? Even the agri-
cultural village-9 showed the improvement. The poor-law
returns showed a diminution over the whole area of England
'of 7?-, per cent. ill the number of oatipers relieved. Nor had
the improvement been merely in the manufacturing dis-
tricts; the returns proved...tile reverse. • The few towne
in which there had been an increase included some manu-
facturing towns, such as -Leicester and Nottingham; while
among the districts in which there had been the largest
decrease in pauperism were Berks, &eke, Devonshire,
'Westmoreland, and the East Riding. The returns proved
that in the villages and smaller towns there had -been a
decrease of pauperism con,equent upon the increased
means of subsistence
,and the augmented means of
employment. The case was the same with Scotland..
To support his statements as to England the Noble
',fake referred here to a return of a poor-law inspector for
one of the districts, in which it was stated that, out of se
population of three millions, only three-seventieths were in
the receipt of relief. The period of the return was for three
years after 1848. The corn-law had been repealed in 1846,
but did not come into operation till 1849. So the returns
probed that the diminution of pauperism had been con-
current with the abolition of protection. In 1843 there
Were on the poor-law books in the district referred to 79,000.
In 1849 this number had been reduced, in round numbers,
to 74 000 ; in 1850, to 69,000 ; and, in 1831, to 65,000. The
'diminution of crime tended to establish similar conclusions.
At the last quarter sessions there had been hardly any
of those offences which of old were used to occupy several
days. Ile contended, then, that these facts showed that
they were the true friends of industry who had relieved it
of its fetters, and sent the people to work either at the
loom or the plough. It was indeed said that there had
been great distress in the country. He did not deny it.
He -had never denied it. He believed it was to be
looked for as the natural result of the transition
from one state to another. He had never anticipated that
such a a change could be effected without slime severe dis-
tress. He knew, however, that in some districts rents were
he believed this to. be
not prejudge what
100
ratherbgijhad
dtqoubeestioo. reduced,
Ho wouldan
course' the Noble Earl might pursue next session on this
subject. No one could raise a voice against the present Bill,
big);,
a iand and
landlord's
and it was very probable that a similar measure would be
brought forward again. He (the Duke of Newcastle)
wished such broad hints had not been thrown out on the
Part of the Gevernment as to direct taxation being im-
practicable without exemptions, and with exemptions
practically confiscation.—(Hear,. Hear, . bear.) And if the tax
were to be abandoned before the revenue had equalised itself
with expenditure, and the increase of the amount derived
from other taxes now existing, be hoped the Noble Earl
'would not resort to duties on articles of trade, and, above
all, the food of the people. He entreated the Noble Earl to
abandon the idea aenhimerical. He (the Duke of Newcastle)
would not deal in menace to their Lordships, especially in times
so quiet and contented. But he was much mistaken if the
people of this country, however attached to their. Sovereign
and their constitution would suffer any withdrawal of the
benefits Oleo had obtained by free trade. He was persuaded
..-
they would not allow any measure by which, directly or
indirectly, any increase upon the burdens of the consuming
classes should take place. ,He hopO the Parliament about
to be returned would resist any reversal or revision of the
free-trade policy. • He did not; of course, mean to exclude
wise revision of details, but such a revision as was talked of
by " free-trade Derbyites" at electiees, who spoke against
reversal while reserving to themselves the power of re-
vision. It was doubtless intended, by these slippery
phrases to do that indirectly which could not be done
directly ; but he beliebed the resistance of the people would
be equally great; and their discontent greater. The Noble
Earl had spoken of the Conservative character of his Govern-
ment, and of his being a barrier against the encroachments
of democracy. If there were ever such," encroachments"
he (the Duke. of Newcastle) would be a humble follower
of the Noble Earl; but he saw no symptoms of such en-
croachments, and only observed that occasionally an agita-
tor's speech fell flatly upon the people's eara'a-(Hear, hear.)
But the Noble Earl had no right to assume to himself this
position until ho had " made a clear breast of it" upon this
most important qUestion. A declaration from. the Noble
Earl before Parliament was dissolved that he had finally
abandoned any intention of restoring the corn-laws would
place the Noble Earl in a proud position before the people.
But a Conservative policy at this day was a policy of rational,
steady, well-considered, and, because steady and well-con-
sidered, safe and salutary progress.—(Cheers from the Oppo-
sition.) It was impossible to stand still without danger, and
any attempts at that re-actionary policy, of which there had
been recently some symptoms, would accelerate the onward
progress of that democracy, the advance of which the Noble
Earl anticipated and deprecated. He repeated, the proper
policy of a Conservative Government was progress; to stand
still was peril ; and re-action was revolution.—(Cheers from
the Opposition- )
Lord BERNERS, after stating that in some counties the
cry was " Free-trade and starvation," referred to certain re-
turns showing that the expenditure for the relief of the
poor in 1850, which was 5,305,0001., was 440,0001. more
than for the year 1836—(Hear, hear)—and, though it was
less than for the year 1849, it was only one farthing per head
on the population less than the average of the seven years
when there was the highest price of wheat. It might,
perhaps, be supposed that when there was the lowest
average price of wheat we sho ild have the lowest amount
of expenditure for the poor, but such was-not the fact. The
minimum price of wheat in 1e37 was 525. If then, he took
the last sixteen years, and took out the eight years when
wheat was above 525., and eight when it was below that
price, he found a very large proportion in favour of high
prices. The expenditure for the last five years was
greater by 2,000,000/. than for the five preceding years; and
the expenditure for 1850, though less than for 1849, was
greater than for any other year since 1836. From another
return he .also found that from 1846 there Was a general
decrease of the sums deposited. For 1849 there were
20,000 depositors less than for 1846, and 3,206,0001. less
year, certainly,
deposited in amount, though last there was
a little increase. •
Lord WODEHOUSE said his observation did not lead
him to the same conclusion as the Noble Earl. The years
1818 and 1849 had beenowing to
Years ofgreat depression,
.
causes quite separate from the f free trade. He
hardly believed that—at least uestion o
in theart of the country with
which he was best acquainted
the eastern counties—'-it was
at all disputed that the condition of thelbouring
classes had
vastly improved. It -would ' a
rise wages
seem that the , in
which was observable had created some apprehension in the
mind of the farmer that -the f the labourer i
conditioa o
would improve more rapidly tie' t
If the argument
of Noble Lords,oppoaite was an
his
own.the depre-•
ciation in the condition of the for anything,
would be a
continually-in Creasing depreciation.llgricultii•eal body
If the farmer was
living upon his capital, he mus more and
t every year go
more towards the verge of ruin so frequently
predicted. He appealed- toe;ohich had been
Lords who were ac-
quainted with the agricultural ble'
districts
whether, instead of
their being in a continual stet e there was not
a decidedly improved and healthful d reciation,.
occupiers
of land. He believed that the ful tone among the.,
most sanguine hopes were being
excited in the breasts 'of the . andthat- they were
being aroused to a greater degreefarmers
than ever. He could notenergy and industry,
of
s.
terous argument that had be help noticing the very p.repo
other House of Parlianaentr in that, or in the
used—not -
but out of doors—that, not
withstanding the many his
and flour annually imported ' red thousand quarters of corn
loaf more of bread had bee into this country, not a single
show that there was no f earn eaten by the people. Now, to
he might state that by the nf
land going out of cultivation,
no less than last64.e rert of the Enclosure Com-
missioners applications had been made to
them; of these 161 had been
coal report, and of the ren disposed of before the last an
of land, and the quantity
ng 483, 36:4 were for en-
closuresoil ntit
y comprised in the applica-
tions and -authorised to be enclosed, • e the last general re-
port, was 46,798 acres. Alth since
treated as one of reason and
dough the question
withth9re
great body of' the people one _.eliberation, it. was
Lasthe
Government
when the Noble Bari IT st interest.
theedeepe , ,
, Government tiponlits sho had not the responsibility of a
alders, and had not succeeded in
forming an Admstration
ample and deliberate and en' he had given them a very
lie was going to do, but or WI ramme, not of what
stated that he-should have pro would halite done. He
and extension of the ineonee-
PtrePoeed a gradual diminution
That Wes.,
duty upon c ax coupled with a moderate
' forth:- -but clearly and policy c
distill t 7 not dimly shadowed
the Noble Lord would adopt tcheY• anunei . egad He wished
same course now. I. p was
an extraordinary state of things
Minister of the Crown making
when they had the Finance
principres establishing the , g an elaborate statempet of
tree-trade policy of the late
Government, and then they had
head of the Administration—. the .Noble Earl at the
ne
Mansion-house making en
t In that House, at butthe
elaborate mystification of
the facts used by his Chancellor
On
r of the Exchequer.
the eve of an approaching
,election,?
it was most essential
that they should have some explanation of the Po
.of the
Government—whether it adeemed advisable. to reverse
the policy of the late Sir Robert Peel, do tit in its
entirety, and carry it out. There eee or a p
re other matters, such
as the.navigation-laws, the timber duties, and the tea. duties,
' upon which it would be very desirable some opinion
should be pronounced; and he believed other states were
anxiously waiting to see whether this
country would con-
tinue:: to pursue tha policy, it hed commenced. d '
lie could
assure the sNoble Earl that by the silence he had adopted
he was doing injury to the cause 'of the .4 which
great parte,
he Ifeaded;' and however much he
Might differ from that
party, he did not wish to see it destroyed.
The Earl of ALBEMARLE trusted the Noble Earl would
give; the Hplaces aa
be was se wile little Thieling'of his future policy-..1n
other p 'chary. of his opinions, for. at the
Mansion-house he had indulged in what his Nobleg Friend
-called an elaborate mystification; and he hoped itiwquld not
be said that his policy could only be elicited by turtle and
champagne.. The Noble Earl had, there spoken of a large
class unconnected with manufactures. Would the Noble
, Earl inform them whom he meant ? There were three denoa
minations of persons in the agricultural class—the labourer,
the tenant-farmer, and the landlord. He would assume at
once that it was not the landlord, and he inferred that it
could not be the labourer. He feared the House was impa-
tient.—(Cries of "No," "Go on.") - Well, then, wallet the
Noble Earl inform him of any period when the labouring
man_ thanks to the blessings of free trade—enjoyed a larger
supply of lireeii, butter, bacon, eggs, tea, sugar, and collie?
(Cheers.) Then there was the poorman's luxury, itobacco ;
and he would call their Lordships attention to the increased
consumption of that as an evidence of the improved
condition of the labouring classes. The calculations
of the consumption , of tobacco_ per head, in the
five' last decennial periods was, omitting fraitions of
' ounces, in 1821, 11 oz. per head ; 1831, 12 oz. ; 1841, la oz. •,
and 1851, 16 05. He helieyed that more skill and capital
bad. been expended in agricultural pursuits by the tenant-
farmers since the . passing of the free-trade measures than
period. His Noble Friend
at any previous p
.had spoken of
the consumption of bones and foreign manures—he found
that in the last five years the quantities ireported were, in
1848;-103,00) tens; in 1849, 112,000 tons; in 1850, 144,000
tons; and in 1851, 274,000 tons, showing an increase of
137 per cent, He admitted that there was distress among
the' tenantefarmers here and there,
but
a the present was a
transition state, and the improvements going on in all
comma was en evidence that they were recovering from it.

He had received a number of letters from various parts of
the country corroborating those facts. The first was from
Bungay, from a Mr. Scott, a large agriculturist, who stated
that the change back to protection could not be made with-
out creating something like a rebellion in the manufactur-
ing districts. In a letter from the Rev. George Sandy
s, of Trixham, Suffolk, he ,stated that ihe tenant-farmer
had suffered grist losi of t oufroth aelght; but he had neve;
-knownethe labours of the board of' guardians, of which
was chairman, lighter, and had never known the ice
house so comparatively free froth able-bodied 'paupers. • - The
poor man had had more in his mouth for the last three years
than he had everfrom
had before. Another letter the gen-
tleman who managed his estates in Norfolk, and 'who was a
Protectionist in opinions, stated that his observation, which
was of no limited time and over no small extent of country,
led him to believe that there never was more activity ormore
disposition to improve among the agricultural body.
Every man who had sufficient. capital to stand the existing
-depression was doing evegthieg in his power to Improve
his condition, "and that accounted fdr all e the labourers ,
being eniPlnyed• .He bad • another:letter froni Aire 131 y th,
one of the first pgriculturists of the county of Node& in
district where all the people depended directly or indi-
rectly upon agriculture.• The condition of the farrders
there was-improved; there were few hands out of employ-
anent, few applications for relief, and frequent inquiries tor
labourers.. Immense exertions were being made to increase
the produce of the land by keeping more stock, feeding more
cattle, and adopting a more cleanly system of tillage. An-
other letter, from a gentleman whose name he was not at
liberty to mention, said the industry, skill, and capital of the
figriceltural,ciasses was materially improved-since he had
become connected with West Norfolk, ten years agd. The
farmer bought more manure,cultivated higher, and the
agricultural mind appeare I tote more active. These were
a few,of the opinions of some of the most intelligent farmers
of the country. Under these circumstances he iniplored the
Noble Earl to declare whether what the world was beginning
to think probable was the fact, that conviction was about to
dawn upon the Government and produce a great change in-
their policy.
After a raw words in explanation from Lord BERNERS,
Earl GRANVILLE said if. any Noble Lord on the oppo-.,
site side was about to rise, he would at once retire.—(Bear,
and laugh.) He hoped some Noble Lord connected with
the Government would give some explanation to the House—
let them either confute the facts and 'statements of the
Noble Duke (Newcastle), or at once frankly and generously
admit they had been in error in having for so long a time
opposed the commercial system which had been recently
adopted in this country. Let not the' fact go to the country
that they were unwilling to admit what had been stated,
and tenable. to deny it. He thought such a course would
be one of which the House and the country would have
some right to complain. The Noble Earl, in the short
speech in which he had introduced a most important mea-
sure to their -Lordships, stated the course the Government
meant to take—viz., that during the present session they
would only propose and pass such measures as were actually
necessary, and that: then they would make an appeal to the
country to decide upon the principles and policy . they,
should pursue with reference to certain great questions.
At the time it appeared to him, although he had no right to
ask the Noble Earl to define the peecise measures that
Would be brought forward after the general election, that
they ,had a right to expect that the Noble Earl should
have stated the general principles, tendency, and
colour of the policy upon which 'the country would
be called upon to decide. But the fact was, that so far
frem,giving any hint as to the general principles or policy
proposed to be pursued, appeals were made to the con-
stituencies sometimes by members of the Government, some-
times by Hon. Gentlemen who were the ordinaty supporters
of the Government, and also by speeches of different ten-
dencies one from the other, so that the electors -were much
more in the dark as to the probable policy of the Govern.
ment than on the very day when they assumed the reins of
epewer,—(Hear, hear.) It was most desirable that the coun-
try should know whether it was intended to' relieve the:
landed interest by an import duty on foreign corn or by
some other indirect means, or whether it was intended to
carry out the commercial system introduced by the late Sir
Robert:Peel. Judging from the speech of the Noble Earl at
the beginning of the year, he would infer that the Noble
Earl believed the present system was fraught with mischief,
and that he was still of opinion that a recurrence to a duty
I 'on corn, for purposes of revenue and ptotection, was a mat-
ter of necessity --
The Earl of DERBY—The Noble Earl is quite wrong in.
Supposing that I said a duty on foreign corn was
,a matter
,of ne.eassity. I stated, that for the purpose at once of re-
lieeing the suffering agricultural interest, and also for the
purpose of improving. the revenue, and thereby enabling us
to takicff other taxes without injury to the consumer, I
thought it might be desirable to impose a moderate fixed
duty on foreign corn. I distinctly stated that that was my
owe opinion. I did not say that it was a matter of necessity,
bat I stated that, whether the relief should be given by the
imposition ,of a duty upon foreign corn was a matter which
rested upon the judgment of the constituencies, but, that I
thought that was a desirable mode of affording relief to the
agricultural classes.' I hold to that opinion still ; but I state
again, that that is a question which must be left to the con-
stituencies of the country ; and, moo over, if it give any sa-
tisfaction to the Noble Earl, and to the Noble Lords oppo-
site, my opinion is, from what I have since heard and learned,
there certainly will not be in favour of the re-imposition of a
duty on foreign corn that extensive majority, without which
as rstated to your Lordships at the beginning of the session„
it would not be desirable to propose it.—(Lead cheers item
the Opposition benches.)
Earl GRANVILLE was glad that the' mistake in his
mind as to the Noble Earl's expressions had produced a de-
claration which would be hailed with the greatest satisfac-
tion by the country, that there was no likelihood of re-im-
posing a duty upon corn. He was glad to find• that this
great question of raising the price of food by the production
of an artificial scarcity was at last and for ever given up.
There was one other pledge given by the Noble Earl with
regard to the navigation-laws. The Noble Earl said that be
had no intention of re-enacting the navigation-laws. The
present system had, he believed, been found in practice to
work most beneficially, and it had already been considerably
promoted by other countries. No less than 500 British
vessels had within the last year entered the ports of the
United States, which, previously to the repeal of the
navigation-laws, could not be admitted, and of these no less
than about 400 had been cleared out. He really thought,
after the declaration of the Noble Earl, so suddenly and
unexpectedly made to them, which showed that he had
come to the only conclusion which Noble Lords on that side
of the House believed the Government could come, that it
was unnecessary to trespass further upon the attention of
- their Lordships.
. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE complained that upon
the second reading of one of the most important Bills ever,
laid before that House, their Lordships had not been sum-
moned.

The Earl of DERBY should say that he had not come
down to the House that evening prepared to go into a de-
bate on the seecnd reading of the Bill. He thought to have
it read a second time pro forma, and to have taken the debate
in Committee. Had he any idea that a debate would have
been raised on the question, he should have come prepared
to meet it ; but their Lordships might perceive by the benches
on the Ministerial side of the House, that none of the sup-
porters of her Majesty's Government were present, which
would not be the case were there any expectation that the
debate would now be gone into.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said that if the Noble Earl
opposite (Earl Derby) had intimated to the House at an
early period that it was his intention to take the second
reading pro forma, there would be no objection whatever.—
(Hear, hear.) When the Noble Earl intimated to him (the
Duke of Newcastle) his intention of taking the second read-
ing pro forma, he instantly acquiesced, but at the same
time assured the Noble Earl that other Noble Lords would
be more or less taken by surprise at the adoption of such a
course, understanding that a debate was to ensue on the
second reading. He should say if the Noble Earl the First
Minister of the Crown were taken by surprise in the matter,
it was by his own officials in the other House who failed to
give him proper intimation.—(Hear.)
The Earl of DERBY said, that, though a matter of con-
venience, it would not be a matter of absolute necessity that
the Bill should-pass before the Whitsuntide holidays.
The. Marquis of CLANRICARDE observed that the Bill
was accepted by the country only on the grounds of its
being a temporary measure. He called on the Noble Earl
the First Minister of the Crown to declare at once—as to
such declaration he should come next year—that he did not
intend to re-impose a burden on any class of the community
for the benefit of another.—(Hear, hear.) Let the Noble
Earl declare that he would give np protection to agriculture
as it had been called, as, by doing so now, it would be more
convenient to the country, and advantageous to the Go vern-
ment.—(Elear, hear. )
The Earl of DERBY made an observation across the
table which did not reach the gallery.
Earl GREY had heard with great surprise the observa-
tions of the Noble Earl opposite (Earl of Derby) in the course
of the incidental conversation which took place that evening.
The income-tax had been for several years the keystone of
their fiscal position ; and no Minister of the Crown, in mov-
ing its continuance or re-imposition, ever failed to explain the
motives and reasons that demanded its re-enaetment.—
(Haar, hear.) Last year, when his Noble Friend (the Mar-
quis of Lansdowne) moved the second reading of a similar
Bill, he thought it right respectfully to state his views to the
House on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) It was at great in-
convenience that he (Earl Grey) attended there that even-
ing, as was Also the case with many other Noble Peers at his
tide of-the House,, who camefully prepared to hear the sub-
ject entered into. If the Noble Ear) opposite had intimated
previously his intention • of taking the second reading pro
forma, no Noble Lord, be was sure, would have objected.
But, after coming down to the House at _much inconve-
nience, and then to be told that the Noble Ear/ had arranged
to take the discussion on a later stage, was not, he should
say, treating the House with proper or becomingshould respect
nsi..der
(El ear, hear.) It was right that the House co
this matter, as it eves one of deep and vital importance
to the country. If Noble Lords opposite were afraid to
avow or maintain their former opinions, were Noble Lords
on the Opposition side of the House
It was therefore to
wmith perit the atter
grea tot
be slurred over?—(ear,H hear.)
pleasure he had heard the speech of the Noble Duke who
preceded him (Earl Grey) that evening. He would not
repeat the statements of that Noble Duke (the Duke
of Newcastle), but he should observe that on the
Minis-
terial side of the House no contradiction had been given
to the facts stated by his Noble Friend. Thermaladg.heen
great reductions of taxation without correspong
zdhi _
nutions in the revenue. Trade had been pr.ospuersoues!
very
dry
spirit of enterprise and activity now distng bct
branch of our industry, not even excluding
(Hear,
to which so much reference had been mad •
eagri_culture,
hear.) Pauperism had been dinainished.; and, according to
the. statement of the Chancellor of the
enEl2l'igchheeerutehr.enthaet
present of the country had never
theeresult of free trade
p—(Hear, hear.) Not one of thobe fatal consequences'
predicted by Noble Lords opposite as
had come to realization. There was one ilnbject which,
from the office he (Earl Grey) latelye had,
wthhei_ethir
hoeurwatoe
hold, he felt interested in, and, as regarded
informed, the Government had madeo tupe tehhesihrihigniynedasr_to
effect an alteration in the coir\i,ers;
as that was the case,
namely, the article of sugar.
interest which he took in the
and considering the very dee
question, he hoped to be p i_n_pitited to go into a few details.—
Duke,who commenced the dia..
(Hear, hear.) The Notbhleree
.n
ogfreeautgincrease which had taken
cussion had pointed out
ar. He found that in the
place in the consump o
last year preceding the ;iteration in the duties —April; 1846
—the consumption of sugar w 5,71
consumption4,ooo whilst
reached
fod
r
the year ending April, 1852 as , the
7,500,000 cwt. In the year ending July, 1814, the whole
quantity of sugar admitted was 4(1..145,0.00
January last, the
quantity amounted to 4,033,00.0 cwt. So that we consumed
at present within 100,000 cwt. I/1 half a year of what we for-
merly consumed in a whole year— (Hear, hear). That was
a striking fact, but very
. easily accounted for.— (Hear, hear.)
Before the introduction of foreign sugar, and when there was
e
th market, he found by returnuthat, looking
a monopoly in --
at the prices in bond, foreign sugar wits 345. 9d. per cwt.,
whilst British sugar was only 21s. 3d. per cwt., making a
difference of 13s. 6d. per cwt. to the consumer. In that
same year the consumption of sugar reached 4,145,000
cwt., and therefore, in addition to a large revenue,
tlis British consumer was taxed to an extent of no less
than 2,790,0001. But the remit of the reduction of the

duty was, that whilst the consumer had benefited
enormously, the revenue, instead of suffering, had
become greatly the gainer, so that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer might well declare that, as regarded sugar, the
increase in consumption vas a marvellous example of re-
ducing duties.—(Bear, hear.) Tao benefits of the measure,
as far as this country was concerned, could not be contested
,after that declaration. ,When foreign sugar was first ad-
enitted;they were told that the effect would be to destroy
the cultivation of sugar in the colonies, as also to give a
fresh impulse to slavery. From that statement he (Earl
Grey) at the time entirely dissented, and stated ae
opinion that the ultimate effect would be to promote
the abolition of the slave trade, and to increase, instead
of diminish, the cultivation of colonial sugar.—(Hear,
hear.) With regard to the slave trade, his Noble Friend
(Lord Palmerston) when leaving office was able to con-
gratulate himself and the country on the practical extinc-
tion of the slaventrade ; and ho believed there bad no
change since then occurred. He was aware that Cuba
was now planted by free labour ; and a contract had been
entered into for the supply of 80,000 free labourers to the
CuLarVeolony. The .itiar-t• point they were. cautieuedeen was
the destruction of the centivatien Df sugar, a branch of
industry in whiCh any falling-off was certain to: Make' itSelf-
manifest in a very, brief period. Now, as he had been
interested in this matter, he had compared the averages of
the three last years of protection - from 1839 to 1841—in the
thevEea asrtalfiuidiiioesw,h3Wgest Indies, and Mauritius, with the three
the rtehsruelet wyaesa
ras ef-oalsltoivrincargeas.
eeomiipiletltieee
the complete emancipation of the trade, and
With res pect to British leuiana, the of that colony,
Governor
anpr_od(uced in
in a dispatch dated the 1 aril of mcleaneecitiptayti Hear.)
of November last, ,aid that the
shr
no e, e
reasosn
ort past;far andap p
situation of the proprietors was better than it had been for
o
retbhaentedinic a
iftvhe.revaecrtseed.
T prudently,heaal
there
wa
ge-
nerally felt with regard to the fall in sugar
was not levit _ re-
gard to slave-grown sugar, but beetroot sugar; but he (Earl
Grey) believed that alarm to be perfectly u
even with heavy protective duties be•didn
Btanfo
thinktuhnilse d for
ett.
skive-growers
eras
arowirs aware a vet
roet could compete with the sugar-cane.
however, the
e
rheatasexmtreine much
adliasrtrmePs-ds eaaxPiostitede,
in Tamaica, and that at this moment the pressure was most
severe; but Jamaica, considering the value of the soil and
climate, and the character of the inhabitants, ought not
the
other be in a disadvantageous position as compared with
other colonies. That suffering, however, he believed-to have
arisen partly from the ravages of the cholera, bat more
from the planters havipg listened too much to the advice of
Noble Lords opposite, and to a disposition to neglect other
means of improving their condition in favour of a visionary
attempt to Win back protection. The Legislature of Jamaica,
neglecting remedial measures, had fixed their eyes anon
protection, and nothifig else. The result was that whilst
other colonies were progressing, whilst the production of
Mauritius was making a gigantic advance, Jamaica showed
little signs of improvement.. Turning to our own country,
he believed that the improvement observable in it was the
result of our having liberated its industry from the restric-
tions to which a vicious policy bad formerly subjected it.
And yet that great commercial and financial revolution begun
in 1846, and almost completed in 1849 by the repeal of the
navigation-laws, took place under -circumstances the most
disadvantageous. In the first place, the corn-laws were
hardly repealed when the potato disease, which .had been
partially felt during the preceding &Annie, appeared with
tenfold violence. Cbncurrently with this there was a defi-
ciency of corn throughout the greater part of Europe, and
the consequence was that in Ireland, during the whole of
1846 and part of 1847, there was an absolute famine, while
in this country the price of food was high, and distress
followed. In 1847 every man felt apprehensive as to whe-
ther the supply of corn would be sufficient to feed the peo-
ple. At one periodeabout this time, corn sold in Mark-lane
for 100 s. a quarter.
A NOBLE PEER-1255. a quarter.
Earl GREY believed at upwards of 100 s a quarter. Added
to this, 8,000,0001. were borrowed for the relief of Ireland,
and the country had to suffer the effects of the re-action of
the railway mania and of overtrading in 1845 and 1846, and
during the latter part of 1847 it probably went through more
disasters than had ever preVieusly befallen it. To complete
this combinaiion of adverse circumstances, there was the re-
volutii•n which occurred in France in the spring of 1848,
and which spread itself from one end of the continent to the
other. ' But under, and, as he contended, by virtue of the
free-trade policy, the country had successfully passed this
tremendous trial. The people submitted to privations with
patience and resignation, because they knew they were not
artificially produced, and they met with a speedy reward.
Industry and commerce revived, and all trace of these fear-
ful calmities was lost in an inconceivably short space of
time. And what was the result in a financial point of view ?
Why, that the country had made provision by more than
974,0001. for the 10,000,000/. borrowed in 1847 and 1848. Such
a result was not only a subject of congratulation by those who
maintained the free-trade policy which led to it, but by those
who paved the way prior to 1846. For himself, he rejoiced
to have taken part in the commercial discussions which had
preceded and accompanied the measures of free trade. When
the success of these free-trade measures had been. so com-
pletely established, it was natural that the country should
feel much anxiety as to whether the powerful party to which
the Noble Earl (Derby) belonged intended to tamper with
them. The Noble Earl had made an important declaration
to-night, but up to this moment the country were as much
at a loss to know what the views of her Majesty's Govern-
ment were as the first day that they took office. The Noble
Earl, on entering office, had said he would not attempt the
re-imposition of a duty on corn unless he had the powerful
concurrence of the country. The Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, however, had told his constituents on his re-election
that the agriculturists were to have relief by a countervailing
duty on corn, as he called it, or by some other cheap and
simple mode of relief, and that the Government were deter-
mined to afford that relief. Not long after, the Right Hon.
Gentleman made a most able speech in the other House of
Parliament on' introducing the very resolution which was
the foundation of the present Bill. In that speech the Right
Hon. Gentlemen made a most careful and admirable state-
ment of the advantages of free trade; but unfortunately
the Noble Earl opposite, not long afterwards, made what he
called a supplemental speech, and to a festive audience de-
clared that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had made a
most excellent speech, but that he had not touched upon
the subject of the advantages of a compromise with the
landed interest; and the Noble Earl on that occasion went
on to insist upon the necessity of some compromise being
entered into with the landed interest on account of the
advantages which had been afforded to the consumer. In
the course of this somewhat unuml proceeding, the Noble
Earl informed the assembled citizens that the statement of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer was only an imperfect
statement of the views of the Government, and that another
important part of those views ought not to be lost sight of.
Unfortunately this was not all, for after this supplementary
speech the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated
that he had been very much misunderstood—that be had
given no opinions in his budget-speech, and that he in-
tended to act upon all the principles he bad asserted when
in opposition. This was a somewhat startling proposition,
produced, perhaps, by murmurs in the camp. But this was
not all. There had appeared various addresses from the
adherents of the Government. Even gentlemen holding
office had stated in their addresses to constituents very
d to
contradictory views of the policy suppose
Cabinet,
the
said
One Right Honourable Gentleman, not in
that he accepted office only in the full conviction that the
Noble Earl would reverse the policy of Sir Robert Peel ;
and that Right Hon. Gentleman still remained in office.
But, thanks to the vigorous application of the screw by his
(Earl Grey's) Noble
le•en d (Earl Granville), a statement
Government re-impose
that it was not the intention of the to
been
:reluctantly extorted. There was
a duty on corn had
something else, however, the back ground. What it was
,
the contrivers did not say; but he (Earl Grey) thought he
knew something of the nature of it. Tae Chancellor
in speaking of this scheme, said it was
of the Exchequer,
: with which the dui on corn
something in comparison
would be less costly, less inconvenient, and more simple.
If that were so, he (Earl Grey) said, let them go back to
the duty on corn.
But he thought there ought to be an
d d' -
end to this ambiguity an stu led concealment If the
Noble Lord and his supporters believed they had been all
along wrong, let them say as much— (Hear, hear)—if they
believed they had been right, let them discuss the question
in a straightforward manner. It was not right that a Go-
vernment wbias was to compose reconcile town and
country, and for ever heal past differences, should, in order
to serve some pitiful electioneering purposes, keep their
views concealed. As a straightforward declaration-was the
most manly and best for the interests of the country, so it
was the best for the strength and stability of the Adminis-
tration.—(Hear, hear.) This was a question on which the
Government had no right to shrink from explanation. By
explanation the Noble Earl might incur reproach for having
grossly deceived himself or others; or, in the reckles pursuit
of party objects, he might have sacrificed what he knew to
be the best interests of the country. On the other hand, he
mig in ht have erred from blindness or want of judgmatis t..adgln.
either case little confidence would be inspired his
-
meat.. The Noble Earl must choose between two alter
To one he
tives—want of judgment or want of, candour.ineur the penalty
must submit ; and he would therebyebad pursued
Mr
due to the erroneous course
, the
penalty and
last six years. From that .p yhe could not escap
the longer he attempted to e
diaguise his views the heavier it
would be.. Lords, I cannot but thank the,
The Earl of DERBY—MY . offering' the two tempting
hindneSB in
Noble Earl for .--14 ed (near, hear. and a laugh)—but
alternatives he bas nem :7 0
says on behalf of myself and
I trust I may be pernien t
my colleagues in the other House of
my Noble Friends,
and
nut we shall be driven to accept
Parliament, that I do n
theM Lords, with due respect to
either of them.—(Cheem)
T maim tat
liberty of repeating the
the Noble E4ll' tof this discussion, and more espe •
opinion that a greatpar
your Lordshipshave cl-
ad of the speech
ally the greater p
heard,-is in a great measure, if not altogether,irrelevant to
question under debate---(Hear, hear)--that question
the .
' •
conditi
being whether, considering the financialon of the
country, we shall renew for a single year an objectionable
tax, or leave the country with a deficiency, this year of
2,000,000/., and, probably, next year of 5,000,000/. ?—(Rear,
hear.) my Lords, I say, in a debate on the introduction of
such a Bill for such a purpose, I do not think it is relevant '
to enter upon a discussion of the whole commercial policy
of the country, the more especially as the Noble Earl
knows, from the circumstances in which the Government
have been placed, and the circumstances under whilieln they
have taken office, that a full and complete discussion
of the subject on their part is impossible (Heaiscussion
greater portion of the speech of the Noble Earl, I r.)
The
must
refers to a power wholly irrelevant to the say'
question of the
continuance of the income-tax—l mean the effects of f
trade in Sugar. And, my Lords, while on the ree
one hand the
Noble Earl, with a candour for which I thank him, ad-
mitted that the great revolution in the commercial policy of
the country did not take place at an earlie
r period than 1846,
and consequently does not refer at all to the earlier proposi-
tions of Sir Robert Peel's policy from 1842 to 1846, he has at
the same time asked the question whether it is the intention
of her Majesty's Government to pursue
or abandon the com-
mercial policy of Sir Robert Peel ; and he illustrates that
question by an elaborate argument on the subject of the
sugar duties. Now, my Lords, I must remind the Noble
Earl and your Lordships that the abolition of differential
duties on sugar was no part of the poliey of Sir Robert Peel:
no part of his propositions ; and it is perfectly well ho°`re
that when the proposition was made by her Majesty's let°
Government, Sir Robert Peel with the greatest reluctancet
was induced to consent to the change; not hecuueee„idhato
measure was wise, equitable, or just but because be se
choose between the adojotion of an unjust and ie cour.
of proceeding, and the - ...sleety
late
expulsion of her rdingly
Government from office ; and Sir Robert Peel ace°
e, of
took the generous course, but I think iniPliticherdlorepting
supporting his successors and opponents,
garb"-
fore do not
a policy to which he was himself opposed: the abolition of
let the Noble Earl and the country claim
of Sir Robert
the differential duties on sugar as a portion
bear.)
With
Peel's free trade or commercial policye—gisrior' sorry to say I
regard to the effect of that measure' • pprehension when
think the Noble Earl is under some
ssa misoat -the slave trade,
he speaks of the almost total
cessation
tieeentrade. In the first
and attributes that cessation to
tllndoubtedly, my Lords,
place, he is wrong in point of fact•
the part of our cruisers
by a vigorous and active operation on
the. coast of
—by the adoption of coercion
eis'elery much put da Africa
and
and
Brazil, the slave trade has
been
been aided by the sincere
late years our efforts hoe

'KVF_

, exertions of the Brazilian Government. lint tlali liiiisle
Earl is in error, when, in speaking of Cuba, he says, either /
increase;
arcourse ;
ao to
nf
dsd
Ray
ymo isnotti
oo that n .
subjects
bt(jneE foe e at
so, i ,aclhenetabrrae.
trade
moreo f The
Cuba
bo fsaae eliyts i '
,',
.-'
that the slave trade is pat down, or that at this moment 'se'''.
oii tsn, ai
thesndi
connected than the effects of free trade in sugar in the
West India colonies, and the increase of the slave trade in '"
Cuba. At this moment, when, as has been admitted by the
Noble Earl, Jamaica is in a state of deep depression and
distress, the steam machinery of Jamaica is being transfer-
stedlin Targequaptities to f Wee, thus .withdrawing it from the
cultiltation of free-labour sugar to the cultiiittoti of slave.•
labour sugar. I believe there can be no doubt whatever:—
the Noble Earlbas admitted—that although in some of the
colonies, there has been an increase in the production of
sugar, ;,vet that in Jamaica there is a state of deep depression
and distress existing, not arising from a diminution of pro-
duction, but from the unremunerative prices obtained for the
Prodnee. The opinion I entertained on this subject in 1846
I entertain now; and it is, That in the long run it is nor pos-
sible for free-grown 'sugar, except in- same very favoured
aituations,! to compete . with the slave sugar of Cuba and...
Brazil ; and although it be quite true that et this moment
-there is-nreiaereasiog amount of sugar imported from'British •
colonies, yet if the Noble''-Earl-will look at the Price
Currents, .he will see that the increased amount
.is., more than compensated by, the fall iu price, •
tio. . that the planter has not the alternative of -••
absincloning the trade, and at the same tines he has no ;
hope of carrying it on with advantage. But, my Lords, I
say that the question of sugar is wholly apart from the ques-
tion :whether we shall or shall not continuethi income-tar
for the present year.—.(Hear, bear.) The Noble Earl has
introduced the question of the sugar duties, not apropos to
any. measures proposed by her Majesty's Government, or
statement made or announcement given, but because he
understands, or has heaid some rumour, that in another sea-
sisn of Parliament her Majesty's Government intend to re-
trace past steps with regard to sugar. I apprehend that this
is not a question upon which the Government are called at
this moment to make a declaration, more especially under the
engagement we have entered into—namely, that we are not,
in the course of this session, to submit any fiscal or financial
measure to the consideration of Parliament. The /louse will,
therefore, agree with me that nothing is more irnpoNtic, im-
prudent, or improper than to suggest or hold out any expec-
tation of fiscal change, at a time when it was impossible to
discuss them, or to decide upon them until another Pafijae
relent. The Nobleßarl,who has just tat down said that the
speech pf the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the course of the'
presenesession shows that the subject of free trade is neces-
sarily
had
connected with the consideration of the income-tax,,
Now, It was the bounden duty of the Chancellor of the Ex-
_chequer to go into every ,detail connected with the revenue
or finances of the country, setting forth, not the merits of
Uses or that plan, but to show what the progress of the re-
venueur ose of equalising the revenue
and the expenditure been, before the House could be expected to agree
to )7 measures for the P P
of the country.—(Hear, hear.) It was
consequently impossible
questions of duties•
sugare and corn, an the
of these articles
especially in respect to
in the lare articles of consumption—more
whicheztfor him to avoid dealing kith those
d the importation
largely into the revenue of
country. It was impossibrl
the Noble Lord opposite,
echeqUer to overlook these f impossible for the Chancellor of the Lit- .
time, and I say so now, ityl h
Oh, but recollect that last year
you admitted that if yog wereto in office you would reduce the
whi c h i., rtehnodreeri
Majesty's Government having eantt to
(Hear, hear.)
that declaration, her
the means of doieg so.—
But, subsequent
able surplus, thought proper to do
command a consider-
abolition of other taxes, and thereby away
thought was
with it by the
hear.) impoliticTherel
phoessi income
—tax,-teaxar:
dgothneotxtehdinu
tioaofimt
year
art impolitic tax. and now think is an en
that the Noble Lord is justified in pointing tax, alto-
gether
inconsistency on my part because last
opinion favourable to the gradual reduction of
income-
ten an
ten during these times of peace. You have, howeeuer
de-
parted from your general financial system, and I however,
m
that you must now submit to this tax for a single at all
events, because you have no surplus upon which you can
confidently rely —(Hear.) lam not going to follow the
Noble Lords who have spoken from the other side of the
.'
House Into a general discussion of the abstract measure of
free trade, or what is called our commercial policy. To
one portion of our commercial policy, I confess I was a wil-
ling party. I willingly assisted to reduce the amount of
our differential duties, because I was desirous of placing the
home and the foreign producer upon a footing of a reale-
not a. nominal—equality—I was desirous •of intro-
ducipg a boat fide competition, so as to give a fresh
stimulus to this as well as to other countries. lam not ignoa
via, nor dope it take me at all by surprise, when I aid
told that so far from diminishing, it had greatly increased,
the amount of consumption. Whether the principle upon
which this system was founded was introduced by the /ate
Sir R. Peel or any Other party—to that principle lAM
willing to give my utmost support, provided it inflicts no , •
injustice upon any party, nor entails any loss upon the re-
venue.—(Hear, hear.) It may, no doubt, be practicable to
give the people a • greater command of the comforts and
luxuries of life. No doubt, if the reduction of duties wiltdo.
this, and not act unjustly to other 'classes, it must be a
matter of. rejoicing to any man that the price of thme,ar-
tides is brought so low as to come within the reach of the
Masses of the population. I will not deny bat that there has
been a great boon conferred upon the consumers of this
country by the diminished price of sugar, consequent upon.
measure
reauction of the duties. No one doubted but that such a.
Measure would give a greater addition to the comforts of the
people. But the question which we have to consider is, not
singly or simply whether a great advantage has been con-
ferred upon the class of consumers in this country, but
whether that advantage is bought by an act of injustice and
spoliation to other parties, and by involving in ruin a large
class of those who, upon the faith of your own Act of Parlia-
ment, embarked their all in the cultivation of the article the
duties upon which you have so reduced? - (Hear, hear.)
When those things are done, it is difficult to reverse them.
But I confess in the face of this great advantage which the
people Kaye derived from the importation of slave-grown
sugar,'/ would much rather have seen 'a smaller advantage
derived by tile improved cultivation and encouragement
given to those who have a natural and rightful claim upon
its than an increased advantage by an amount of cheapness
gained by what I thought, and still thisk, was an act of in-
justice—an act the tendency of which was' to stimulate and
encourage the production of sugar by means of slavery, and
by that of increasing the infansons traffic in slaves.—(Hear,
hear.) Ido not deny that it is possible that the consarep-
tion of the comforts and necessaries of life has been increased
in consequence of the reduced price of corn; but that such in-
crease has been in anything like the p %Tor Lions stated by the
Noble Lerd opposite, I say is contrary to the fact; and if I
had the figures here before me I could ' show that they have
been grossly exaggerated. Noble Lords opposite have talked
of an increase of 10,000,000 quarters of corn in the consump-
tion of the people of this country. Now that calculation I
believe is taken upon an average of years which includes
some years of famine, in which of .course the imports had
been considerably larger.
The Duke of ARGYLL was here understood to say that
the highest amount of corn consumed within the years
quoted were 11,000,000 quarters.
The Earl of DERBY—But even supposing that all that
quantity has been consumed, you are not to suppose
that that is a gross increase of the consumable produce
of this country. In the first place, the average im-
portation before the year 1846 was, I think, 3,000,000, or
4,000,000 of quarters, and if I deducted these from the
10,000,000
alleged to have been consumed, will reduce it to
6,000,000 or 7,e0J,00) of quarters. I say that fromlbese
10,000,000 quarters, assuming this to be the quantity
consumed upon the average in the years quoted. you must
deduct something between 3,000,000 and 4,000,000 of
quarters which were imported the year before that in
which the alteration of the
to lawthe amount of was made. That leaves
an increase of consumption
like like 65,,
)00 000 not of wheaten sour, but of corn of all
me Whethr I belie
descriptions. The Noble Lord asks
one out of cultivation
that 800,000 acres of wheat land had g
in the face of the immense enclosures that have taken place.
Now, in the first place, a large portion of those' Enclosure
Acts's:lid nothing whatever towards adding to the-cultiva-
tion. They were the enclosure of lands generally which
were held in common. Bat theyn
ration now as are just as much in culti-
• they were before those Acts were passed.
Althouch no doubt 800,000 acres had not gone out of culti-
vation, does the Noble Lord mean to say that there line been
no diminution in- the amount of produce ' received from
Ireland to this country ? Why, there has' beiti something
like a diminution of 300,000 quarters of wheat within -
last few' years of what was usually received. Ido the
to say that there has been no increase • not
mean e in the con-
sumption of corn; but I say that when you am n. ii,...,.
such a fact that there has been an additio '3- "1"'"
erg powers of the people to any. . nto the consum-
tenag like
quarters, that you grossly exaggerate. ant
'10,000,000
iocreased consumption purchased? The tit how is this
lightly over this part of the Noble Lord passed
very well for him, or for the i arsubiect. It may be
that we can afford to receive less ise proprietors,, to say
b
i
the power of consuming more— wn order to, afford the masses
incomes. But there is a l e shall still have sufficient
lords and farmers—so that when
class who are both land-
also suffer. . one suffers, tlle other must
Now, what
They are small proprietors is the condition `of that class?
whom this loss falls with cultivating their own land, upon
of this class have been a double weight. A large number
that they so pressed upon by. our recent legis-
lation,cultiva-
tors of the soil inhave been utterly extinguished as cu-1:
a refuge in other this eountry, and, have been driveenseteo:eiet.
the greatest satisfaction
I .contofeeee It , h
that
the labouring classes , and I biker It
abibe
amount of
prosperity, and I shouldal enj
"jag
aco aer
g h t would desire
by be the last man e a
portion of that
any measure to deprive them, of ant'
prosperit y. But undoubtedly the prespelitY of the labouring
classes is wholly dependant upon the prosperity of the em-
ployer. If, then, you diminish the means of the employed, the
labourer, sooner or later, will fail in obtainingsmployineet, and
on him ultimately the injury will f. 511. Tibin 'Ls g:lsi' no doubt,
have not been diminished in proport ,
;Wait thee burdenreduced
is
Price of corn; but that is merely "Y
the
landlords and tenants, and
at preaent sustained by the shoulders f h
~ o t e labourer.
has not yet been cast upon the
..
d the consequence is that
This I believe to be the fact;
an
"derabl A
the labourers are enjoYinf a
alsotrue e aegree of
in the
perity.--(Hear, hear-) tis . t s stated, that in the
three y earnpoth tenant and land-
course of the last two or
lord have made extraortary exertions to improve the
T stimulus of
cultivation of And necessity has ope-
. And 40 a certain extent most wholesomely
ratedupou t4enit evertb delta with
greet severity, oppres-
and advantageouslea
liAnd I ha
shear .'and hardship. v47t, very great doubts whether
h r
in many coo, althoug g e!tt expen ture is undertaken by
the great portion of theoutlay is not a loss to
those glasses,
• and the tenant, although at the present time
Use probeadvantageous to the labourer. Ido not deny but
it in
that in the course of the—lsst-- -few years- there has
a great increase of our " articles of exportation.
been
Now, I am not going to enter into the question
in reference to the discovery of gold in various places
but of this I have no doubt, if it had not been for these
great and increasing discoveries, and the large influx of
gold into this country with rapidly increasing speed, you
would have seen a different state of commercial affairs here
than what you see now.—(Hear, hear.) And although it
may be quite true that the amount of our imports
his
largely increased, as well as our exports, althougt
may be true that the amount of our productions has greatly
increased, I very much doubt, if we could look into the
balance-sheets of our commercial men, we should see that
increased amount of traffic of these exports and imports ac-
companied with a corresponding profit On the contrary,
with the largest amount of trade almostever known, it has
been less profitable to them during .the last few.years than in
any period within their experience!, except in years of panic.
As a proof of the prosperity of the country, the Noble Lords
are fond of quoting statistical returns of the reduced amount
of pauperism. The Noble Lord opposite commenced with
the year 1848, and congratulated the country on the im-
mense reduction of pauperism since that period. Well, but
is it fair to take the year 1848 as a starting
calculations? In taking up this
part of the argument we
have had a vivid declamation from the Noble Earl
who has just sat down. But that was a year of a most
exceptionab!e character, in which all classes .
'almost
were involved in absolute ruin. That was a year of famine,
so that the amount of pauperism then cannot be fairly said
to be a data upon
which you lam a right to calculate