The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-22 00:00:00

SATURDAY

EVENING, MAY 22, 1852.

a Committee of their Lordships, and he did not
coincide with the Noble Enrl opposite in thinking
that there had been any blunder committed in acced-
ing to that proposition, nor did he coincide with the
Noble Earl (Winchilsezt) that the inventions were a
great humbug. The motion now made was that cer-
tain papers be laid on the table. The Noble Earl had
acceded to the postponement of the Committee, reserv-
ing to himself the right of making the motion again
after the production of the papers. Upon that as-
surance their Lordships would, he supposed, rest satisfied
that the Committee would not be appointed without their
being fully acquainted with the matter, so that there
would be ample time to consider whether it should be
appointed or not.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said no doubt the
Master-General of the Ordnance would cause such in-
vestigation to be made as the Government might direct.
That was the proper channel for the inquiry, and he had
no doubt it would be made by the Master-General in
such a manner as would prove satisfactory. 1
Tho motion was then agreed to.
MAYNOOTH.

The Marquis of BREADALBANE having risen to
present some petitions on the subject of the grant to
Maynooth,
Earl FITZWILLIAM suggested that the matter
should be postponed till Monday.
The Duke of ARGYLL protested against the rule
being that the House should adjourn at seven o'clock.
The Earl of DERBY said it would be convenient if
some rule was laid down that the eemeP4ttestion should
not be asked more than once.—(A laugh.)
The Duke of ARGYLL was not anxious that the
question should be put at all. If it was, the onlyiniswer
that could be given was the one that had been given be-
fore, that the Government had no intention at present of
making a change in the grant to Maynooth. No Go-
vernment could say more. Circumstances might arise in
process of time to compel the Government to review the
question, but at present they had no intention to do so.
As regarded the debate, ho should be as happy to get
away as any of their Lordships.
The Marquis of BREADALBANE said he had a
great number of; petitions to present from Scotland on
the question of the grant to the College of Maynooth.
These petitions emanated, in a great measure, from the
members of the Free Church, and others from various
places in Scotland. It was upon the grounds alleged by
the petitioners that he had resisted the Bill, when it
was brought in by the late Sir Robert Peel, to augment
and to place that grant upon a permanent basis. The
objections he had then felt had been since confirmed
and strengthened. It appeared to bim that the grounds
upon which it had been made had totally failed, and
that no good had resulted from it. On the contrary, it
had greatly dissatisfied all classes of their Protestant
fellow-subjects, while it had produced f.ito feelings of
conciliation. He trusted he might entertain those
opinions without entertaining the least hostility
or ill-will towards his Roman Catholic fellow-
subjects ; and he trusted that in. considering those
serious objections, those feelings were not in any way
compromised. He could not conceal from himself that
the most serious question had been neglected, and that
if they came to the resolution that that grant should be
withdrawn, the policy of continuing grants to other re-
ligious establishments must be considered. That was
the course they must pursue in accordance with justice
and sound policy. It appeared to him that it was not at
all the province of the State to interfere with the religious
opinions of the people, and that they ought never on that
account to make any distinctions with regard to civil
rights, provided that in that religion there was no prin-
ciple hostile to civil liberty or sound government. But
considering those principles he thought they ought gra-
dually and judiciously to withdraw all grants given by
the State to those various religious bodies—that they
ought to endeavour to maintain and strengthen the re-
Baton of the State by correcting abuses and enforcing its
efficiency, and, above all, by rendering its ministers effi-
cient teachers of pure Christian faith. That fully
applied to the Established Church in Ireland, which
was overgrown and out of measure with the Pro-
testant population of the country. These were ques-
tions involved in the consideration of the withdrawal of
the grant to Maynootb. Viewing it in that light, as a
question forced upon them, seeing that there was a great
anxiety on the part of the Protestants of that country—
seeing that its Protestant principles were compromised
by the grant to Maynooth, he would appeal to the Noble
Earl at the head of the Government to give a declara-
tion of his opinion and of the policy he deemed it right
the Government ought to pursue in that great, difficult,
and delicate question—(Elear, hear)—in order to give
some satisfaction and to remove the doubts which still
existed in the minds of many as to the intentions of the
Government; for although the question had been pre-
viously asked, and a discussion had taken place on the
subject, and although it had been discussed in another
place, still he must say that some doubt and un-
certainty prevailed in the public mind, which
was most prejudicial to the public interests of
the country, and most inconsistent with the
representative system which in that country had been
established. It appeared to him, that whoever undertook
the responsibility of a Government, and was placed at its
head, should have his principles ready for their applica-
tion upon all the great questions which agitated the
public mind, and that he should have a decided course
of policy marked out as that which ho should pursue.
Without that qualification he maintained that there
could bo no real government of the country, but it
would be left to this or to that wind, and it would be
impossible to know how to steer the vessel of the State.
It was only consistent with their representative system
that there should be no concealment of the policy of
the Government. Having made these remarks without
any feeling of hostility to the Government, he
hoped the Noble Earl at its head would explain to the
country the principles which he meant to apply and the
policy he intended to pursue with regard to the grant
and the Acts at present regulating the College for Ro-
man Catholic priests at Maynooth.
The. Earl of DERBY would find no difficulty in an-
swering the question of the Noble Marquis, because the
present was the third time, and he hoped it might be the
last, in which he had answered the same question.
hear, and laughter.) What he had stated
was, that her Majesty's Government had no present
intention of making any alteration or proposing
any repeal of the existing law by whielethe endowment
of the College of Maynooth was authorised. He did not
consider that upon that which appeared to be the views
of the Noble Marquis himself and those of many persons
in Scotland there could be any difference of views or
questions of policy for that Government to grant an en-
dowment to persons of a different religious persuasion
from themselves. He did not sympathise with, or adopt,
the views of the Noble Marquis and the petitioners, be-
cause he considered the question of the endowment of
the College of Maynooth purely a question of policy,
and, as a question of policy, the Government was free to
act as the circumstances of the time might justify, with-
out reference to any specific principle of right or wrong,
but merely acting for the public welfare, for the main-
tenance of the public peace and the well-being of the
country in general, and considering merely what was
politic and wise. The Government must be left at full
liberty to act with regard to the College of Maynooth
upon these principles, and ho repeated there was, on the
part of her Majesty's Government, no present intention
of interfering with the grant.
Lord BEAUMONT could not reconcile the answer of
the Noble Earl opposite with the course of proceeding
which had been adopted in the other House of Parlia-
ment, and with the sanction of her Majesty's Govern-
ment. The Noble Esrl expressed his intention of not
interfering with the grant to the College of Maynooth,
which he said he considered to be a question of policy.
How could that statement be reconciled with the consent
given by her Majesty's Ministers in another place to
commence an investigation—not into a question of mere
policy, but into a question of principles and practices?
If the Noble Earl intended to make no alteration in the
grant, and had made up his mind on the point, how
could the Government consent to the formation of a
Committee which was to rake up the whole subject,
particularly when they were resolved that, whatever the
report of that Committee, they were determined to make
no alteration in the present condition of the college? He
(Lord Beaumont) agreed with the Noble Earl (Derby)
that it was a question of policy. .He begged also to remind
the Noble Earl of his words on a former occasion, when
the additional grant was under debate, and when the
Noble Earl, in supporting it, said, " Such a course was
required by the policy of this country, and it did not
matter whether the party on whom the boon was to be
conferred accepted it with gratitude or ingratitude. The
policy of this country Was straightforward; and it being
right to make the grant. they would do so without look-
ing to the results.”--(Hear, hear.) The object of the
grant in his (Lord Beaumont's) opinion was to give edu-
cation to persons who intended to become Roman Ca-
tholic priests. It happened that in Ireland a large por-
tion of the population was Roman Catholic, arid as long
as that was the case one of the necessary requisites was
a certain number of Roman Catholic priests. Now the
population should either pay for the education out of
their own pockets of those persohs whom they intended
should fill the office of priest, or else the Government
should pay for them. Government,
wisely, on a prin-
ciple of
policy, undertook to relieve them from the bur-
den; and having undertaken that burden, ho (Lord
Beaumont) maintained that Government had nothing
further to do with the college than ,to see that it
carried out the principles for which the grant was
made. lie maintained that the College of Maynooth
had strictly fulfilled these purposes; that it had educated
persons for the Roman Catholic priesthood, and for no-
thing else. It confined its education to that object; and,
in other words, it minutely fulfilled all the objects of the
grant. Now, there were visitors oppointed to the col-
lege, who confined their reports to a number of simple
questions, and did not go further into the result or mi•
tare of the system of teaching. They merely put ques-
tions as to whether certain conditions were complied
with, and hitherto the answers to those questions showed
that they had ,been complied with. Government, then,
having that information, it was not its business to far-
ther investigate the results of these books and doctrines
on the minds of the scholars. All that was done at
Maynooth was merely what was done at any other col-
lege where persons were educated for the Roman Ca-
tholic priesthood ; and therefore further investi-
gation was, in his opinion, not alone uncalled
tor, but also dangerous and improper. Yet it wag to
a motion of this nature that her Majesty's
Govern-
ment heti, in the other House of Parliament,
ht sented. He could well imegine a motion brought
as to
for-
ward on the broad and intelligible question as
be
whether it was right or wrong that the gran
case, so long
allowed by this country. That would bh.aulegitimate
subject of Inquiry. But as long as her hi Go-
vernment maintained that it was right and proper that
con
the grant should be continued, So long as that was the
to resist unnecessary in-
vestigations on the subject.—Gear.)
, What benefit
was it their duty
Could result from the investigation The Committee
might examine witnesses and ;receive evidence that
class-books were read which contained not the most,