The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-30 00:00:00

at once or a sum monthly, the majority might choose
to have the larger sum immediately—(Hear, hear)—
although a monthly payment might effetd a better secu-
rity for the attendance of the men. But this is a matter
of detail, and with the exception of these matters of de-
tail, with which we can deal when the Bill is in a proper
shape, I am bound to say that the plan proposed by the
Government is one highly deserving of the favour and
sanction of the House.—(Cheers.) My Right lion.
Friend says that I shall find fault with the Bill because
it does not provide for the defence of Scotland and Ire-
land. I did not exactly hear what fell from the Right
Hon. Gentleman on that point, but I apprehend the pro-
posed force will be liable to all the obligitions of the
militia law, and that the militia so raised will be
13e liable
rehend i
to serve in any part of the United Kingdom.—(r,
hear, from Lord J. Russell.) I appt is to be a
militia or reserve of 80,000, raised chie by fly voluntar
enlistment, trained during time of pee.ce, embodied ony
the approach of war; and when embodied, liable to serve
in any part of the United Kingdom. So, far, therefore,
from taking advantage of this measure to turn out the
Government, I think it is one which should claim from
us every possible assistance, as I think it is of the ut-
most importance to the country.—(llear.)
Colonel THOMPSON contended that the warlike es-
tabliihments of other countries ought not to be made the
measure of our own. On the contrary, if the whole
continent were one network of fortresses, it was no
reason why we should add a single man to our army or
navy. Gentlemen on his lido of the House felt the
pressure from without, and their constituents demanded
some reason for these augmentations of military force.
For his own part, ho thought them unnecessary. If
France excited alarm, it should be remembered that the
star of its present ruler was not rising. On the con-
trary, it was falling, and that, too, in spite of the
cheers of corporals and the embraces of demoiselles do
l'Halle.—(Loud laughter.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—Sir, I am one of those who think
that the defences of this country ought to be increased
—(Hear, hear)—aud I confess' that it never appeared to
me to be a satisfactory reason against such an in-
crease to say that at the present moment we are
at peace with all the world, and there is no im-
mediate prospect of hostilities.—(Hear.) For Sir, we
know perfectly well, from former experience, that
although there may be no cause of hostilities existing,
yet that in the course of any two or three months, or in
any one year, there may arise causes of hostility which
it may be very difficult for Government and Parliament
so to arrange as to prevent tho calamity of war.—(Hear,
hear.) And these are questions which very often do not
upon one aisposition of any particular Govern-
ment.—(Elear, hear.) I certainly would not rest the
question of defence upon the Government of France or
any other country. I think, on the contrary, we should
consider the present ruler of France to be as well dis-
posed to peaee as any person who might be at the head
of the Government of that country. As is the case
with this country, he governs France with a high feel-
ing of honour and of susceptibility to indignity.
Between two such nations, putting aside the United
States and other countries, it is impossible to say
that causes of hostility may not at any time arise.
--(Hear.) Five or six years ago, for instance,
when no one was dreaming of war or hostilities,
we heard that ass injury had been inflicted on a consul
of this country in the South Seas. Sir Robert Peel,
then Prime Minister, came down to this House and de-
clared the injury to be wanton, and that reparation must
be demanded and obtained. Now, suppose the Govern-
ment of France had said that no injury had been in-
flicted, aud no reparation was due or would bo given,
would not a great cause of hostility have sprung up?—
(Hear.) The Government of France, however, was
more wisely, disposed to pacific councils, and the matter
was arranged. But I believe that at the time the Mi-
nister of France would have been very popular if be
had said that no indemnity was due to Mr. Pritchard,
and that reparation should be withheld. You can never
say, therefore, that war may not arise from causes to-
tally unforeseen.—(Bear, hear.) Agreeing, therefore,
that our means of defence ought to be increased, I con-
fess 1 have heard with great pleasure the very able state-
ment of the Right Hon. Gentleman. At the same time
I must say, that although I thought him ver
my clear
randn
explicit with respect to great portions of the u
proposed to introduce, there were other portions not so
agreeable, perhaps, to touch upon, and which therefore,
folowing the rule of Horace, he seemedanxious to avoid a
For, Sir, the great difficulty experience and
in proposing
militia is the question of the ballot. If you
to cannot
ball get
t.
80,000 volunteers you must have recourse the
Now, I think we ought to have some explanation on the
this head—whether the ballot is to take place in the
unions, whether districts arc to be formed, and what class
of persons are to be subject to the ballot; whether, also,
substitutes are to be allowed, and whether all the per-
sons enrolled will be subject to five years' service in case
of there being danger of invasion. I think these ques-
tions ought to be answered, in order that we may h
know e
what the proposed law is to be; because, althoug th
Right Hon. Gentleman seems confident as to the volun-
teers being forthcomin, I do not feel so certai that
the inducement of the first year will bo as Effectun al its
the second. I think the Right Hon. Gentleman spoke
of an option with regard to taking the whole 41. I in-
cline to believe that whereas the 4/• would
would bo found
generally acceptable, the monthly payment
prove so great a temptation. Two shillings and six-
pence a month, or one penny a day, although it may be
a fee for a voluntary militia-man, would not, I think, be
considered a fee at all in the Court odehane.(H,
hear, and a laugh.) Now if you not obtain these
volunteers, or even if you obtain 50,000 in the first year,
but do not succeed in procuring the remaining 20,000
or 30,000 in the second, you must then have recourse
to the ballot; and I confess I do not know under what
Act of Parliament there is any satisfactory mode of pro-
this large number of men under the ballot. It is
also desirable that we should know for what time the
cbilarlliontgis to extend, whether it is to apply to the inha-
bitants of particular districts, and at what ages it is to
apply . Notwithstanding the cllearnaf ds
that
.statement
of the Right Hon. Gentletrian, ics(vereys
imporifnootth, ihsurtei
specs my notion of the measure
t(haineleari,thqouairt.e) cleFaorrtmhayt
othwenßpilalr shouldthbeerberaosuogitshtNNihn.t—oh
I have before given, and fur the
e rlesahsoounlsdstparteeiderbaylatrhgee
Right Hon. Gentleinan.to-
ig
military force of this letucslatomaanttionrcroeoatseoonfl
ythiaorreugsva
but
olf—(Eiear, hear)—and if there
el
asthe
o uycountry
ei ,
appear
t 0
00 wga
er
judgevee r, t a
repu .nanc to the militia force
we may bo odblfiged, not perhaps
e ncreo,obut top r havefer-
iol fi
t a re
as some people suppose,
rwhollyecou
Tiverton (Lord Palmerston) quite ready to agree
rset°toabaanndiniciaresauseeh oaf moeuarnms
once. lam very glad to find the Noble
Lord the Mem-
ber for
(A laugh)—and becau
to this Bill. I had the s
ommi syf oßr
tut, noeo
ltyo
adpi
pfflei re
df rtoomE
ohgi an—d
tors? As it is now propo
he atited Scotchuien wesreedcothaa'atrtdhsealdiilirtiiashvimheenotormai:
the United Kingdom, the samehi o
bodied shall be liable to sent to
willany ooptaorpt
loyf
with a satisfactory
Hon. Gent
With regalrcdrogaeonewriaillyaltiootfursopisrhopjuossal,l trust the Ripght.
ictohuant;
try. Thera is another subject,oho, eecttoedthwe
statement of the expense this foreeowoilolnbn
increase of expense, on which I pe soon to hear the
d how the expenses of the country
ways and means, an
determination of th© Government. It is the question of
Hou what ho
Exchequer will very soon inform t she
are to be met. I trust also that the Chancellor of the
hA t
tax. The income-tax expires on the 5t pri nex. ,
means to do with respect to the renewal of t e income-
and unless that Act be renewed the. dividends due in
subject, I hope that
for a premature statement on this
July will be paid without any deduction. Not pressing
no length of time may be suffered to elapse without the
Right Hon. Gentleman acquainting us with his in-
tentions.—(Hear.)
Mr. WALPOLE, in reply to the questions of the Noble
Lord, said it was proposed to take the men required from
the Registrar General's districts, as superior facilities were
afforded by the census of 1851. It was also proposed to fall
back upon the ,ballot in the event of the failure of the
volunteer system, and to allow substitutes. With regard to
the expense of such a force, if 31. a man was paid as bounty,
the sum required for the first 50,000 men would be 150,0001.;
and the 30,000 men
fto be raised next year would cost
90,000/. Of course, the bounty was 41., the expenditure
would be somewhat :more. The pay and allowances to
joining and returning,
50,000 men and officers would be for twenty-one
retuning,
6,250 J for mueonl.
clothing, 11. 15s. a
867,2,512091./;.
man, 93,03/. ; extra .
allowancege'' to ;innkeeper+, 15,000/. ;
; carriage arehi
nogf bagga
making a total entail an .additional ex-
posed to be enrolled for 1853 would
for 1852 of 206042/. The 30,000 men pro-
making
of 38,02/ /. 103.
525/. for marching money, 2,180/. for innkeepers' allow-
an. for het enty-one (lees training, with
ces; clothing (at 11. the- per man), , ;
53 550/. making,_
with some allowances for medecine, &c., a total expenditure
for the two years of 311,95'4., rleducting the cost of cloth-
in g providedin 1852 (93,6631.), the total cost of 80,000
men for 1853 would be 218 2881. ; and again deducting the
for 1853, 210,0001. ; for 1854, 160,00t0h/e. ; cfoosrt
1854 would be 164 ' be-
,"B • The cost for five years, he
lieved • , might be taken to stand thus:—For 118:5525t,,r2a:006:,:0:0000f1:;;
fori‘liBr.sl3G
1856, 160,0001.
a
o
l.sked whether the ballot would apply
tid'eerss.tood to oppose the Bill, be-
tween the ages of 18 and 35?
Mr.
tthheererewgualsatroabrme army.
dtaiinvidsit:no
WALPOLE—Yes.
OwLasE
re-
commendi
mr. COBDEN anaug augmentation athtiaotnaisa
the motion for bringing in the Bill, the interest ion
discus-
sion had ceased.—(" No," from the Opposition.)
he could say was, that if there was a division he should vote
alle
against the introduction of the measure. The difficulty he
experienced in these discussions had become greater and
greater ; for the more he heard of the necessity of increased
armaments urged in both Houses of Parliament, the more he
was at a loss to conceive the ground on which the necessity
was founded. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Walpole)
bad admitted that the country was never freer from a state
of hostilities than now ; and the Hon. and Gallant Member
for Westminster—that city which was to have been pillaged
by the invader—had said it was impossible ler a foreign
force to be landed in this country without our being fully
forewarned.
Lord PALMERSTON expressed dissent.
Mr. COBDEN continued—The Noble Lord contradicted
him, and thought it was possible for a sudden attack to be
made.
Lord PALMERSTON—Hear, hear.
Mr. COBDEN—The Noble 'Lord cheered ; but he (Mr.
Cobden) not pinning his faith to any noble lord's, would
appeal to historical facts. It was said that the elder Napo-
leon contemplated an invasion of England; but were his
preparations sudden or the work of a day ? But Napoleon
was preparing his military armaments for a period of twelve
months. There were not 40,000 men in that expedition, and
it took 400 or 500 transports to carry those armaments after-
wards to Egypt. He thought it was admitted that it would
be impossible for any sudden descent to be made upon the
p 1
0o soe do 0 t hat
o r tlhseoos e preparation
desperad desperadoes
English coast by a regular army and navy. Then he su-
wsuerrepriisniotegndoesd. tso
arporleyvepthnto
establishment of a militia would not prevent such charac-
ters surprising U 3, if they had ever formed the notion. Such
men must be those who were determined to sacrifice
themselves. If there was a body of Thugs in France
who were determined to do mischief in this country',
and to aim their invulnerability, how mild we preYeat

W eava-
airaue,Weilly ANS thought that it would be well
for the Government to explain why they had repulsed
the officers of the volunteer corps.
Mr. GIBSON suggested that the Government should
defer the settlement of the subject until after that ap-
Peal to the country which was to take place before long.
C(Elear and a laugh.) The Right Hen. Gentleman
ad declared that he did not propose the measure
m in
ttnse of any peculiar urgency at the present
bent, nor as a temporary measure, but rather as part
11,4 permanent policy. That, therefore, was a subject
one
should be most maturely considered; and it was
toon which it was reasonable to await the verdict of
re° oonatituencies—(Hear,hear)—especially as that was
".10 course the Government themselves proposed to
Paranaca upon other subjects.—(Hear.) The measure
a not extend either to Ireland or Scotland,
Lord
could scarcely, therefore, satisfy the Noble
sttl (Palmerston), who had objected to a local
tiLlitia, and who would probably ask now, as he had
Fore, were Scotchmen traitors and Irishmen not to
Je trusted ?—(Hear.) The Noble Lord had already
ienrned out one Government upon this question,
and the
St amends he could make would be by turning out
kllother,—(llear, and a laugh.) Certainly the present
measure was as defective as that of the late Govern-
ment. What security was there, for instance, that the
substitutes would be forthcoming at the hour f service?
'(hear, hear.) An enormous expense was to be in-
trtrod in procuring them, when at the critical hour,
ttettle would be consumed in running about after them
ud tryin to catch them.—(A laugh.) It was obvious
thkt g • • -
h the militia would be of no use unless always em-
-sthed, and then what would be the effect of assembling
80 0
00 young men together for nearly a month?—(Hear,
hoar)t,, What was to be done then? Were they to be
hear.)
about in public-houses and beer-shops?—(Hear,
moral
Would that be likely to be acceptable to the
11041 and religious feelings of the country?—(Hear,
elit.) The fact was that the militia system, however
'PPlicable it might have been to the time of George 111.,
4 not suited to the present age.—(Hear.) It was far
better in a country in which arts and industry had made
uth great progress rather to increase the standing army
thin to interrupt the avocations of the people by calling
pact, to follow the occupation of a soldier.—(Hear.)
II'iEY said, " Tho profession of a soldier almost always
4 tTts a man for the following of other occupations. Of
three inhabitants of a village, it is better that one should
idiot himself entirely to arms and the other two stay
thastantly at home to cultivate the ground, than that all
t tee should mix the avocations of the camp with the
!sitiess of husbandry. By the former arrangement the
il'''..ontry gains one complete soldier and two industrious
bandmen • from the latter it receives three raw militia-
men •
h,“, and three idle and profligate peasants"—(Hear,
t.tt.) Ile agreed in that opinion entirely; and although
elite concurring with the Right Honourable the Home
'ecretary that a Minister who shrunk from proposing
such an augmentation of our force as he believed to be
4eeesary did not deserve the position he occupied, he
eld not admit that our forces were now inadequate to
defence of the country. The people were not indif-
ferent to our national defences, and would be uneasy if
they 4 thought there was any danger. But they did not
they
that there was any danger; and he was persuaded
would deem that no case had been made out for
te,
ttt u a measure as the present. There had been many
Leropts to re-introduce the militia system. The Noble
eltd (Palmerston) had avowed that for years he had
F.. 11 trying to induce the late Administration to adopt it.
t.l 1831 the Government had endeavoured to revive it,
`;tl had been frightened into the abandonment of it. In
1846 frightened a measure was proposed, but the Ministers were
t 0 out of it; and in 1848 another attempt was
),41ie with a similar result, and the present measure
41Id meet the same fate.
Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, I am Rot going to re-
ja„c)nd to the call of my Right Honourable Friend, for,
" far from opposing the measure, it is toy intention to
Rive to the Government my support in favour of it.—
a oar, hear.) And I must compliment the Right Hon,
forcible
the Home Secretary on the very able and
gaible manner in which he made his statement.—
`‘'lleers from all aides of the House.) Sir, it is impos-
sible, I think, to overstate the necessity of some perma-
,, t,ent arraugement of this kind.—(Hear, hear.) It is all
:tY well for Gentlemen to talk of the amount of the
/4 °3Y, including in their estimates the forces in India,
or
Canada, or other distant colonies—and then to tell us
have an army available for cur defence; bu t, Sir, it
tur:tt,,i)stird to make use of such an argument—(Lo
tad crises
Rear, hear")—for every one knows that a large
il'tiun of our army is not available for cur defence at
°4le. Sir, my Gallant Friend (Sir Do Lacy Evans)
t
for
of the number of troops that could bo assembled
t' the defence of the capital. I have seen calculations
0
r! that subject, and I am convinced that the statement
the Right Hon. Gentleman as to the amount of
„°tea which could so be made available is by no means
,lederststed.—(llear, hear.) I should doubt whether
,',at amount of force could be got together within the space
it a few days if it was required. It is true, we have a
/IN° amount of ships; but, as was stated by the Right
a,-°n• Gentleman, these ships cannot be put to sea at a
tc,'toent's notice, because you have not the men by whom
",,eY are to be worked.—(Elear, hear.) I will go further,
L'ct say, that if these ships were manned and fit to go to
,`,4) it is physically impossible that a naval force could
fueetually prevent the arrival of a very large invading
b°„re,e, if opportunities are taken advantage of and pro-
force
seized.—(llear, hear.) My lion. and Gallant
rtend has stated that in order to collect a large force
fort the purpose of crossing the Channel and coming to
's country preparations must be made, and ample
()tice would be had of its intended approach to this
r, '%ntry, I think my lion. and Gallant Friend is much
t4istalcon as to the facilities of foreign countries for col-
-1
'oting a formidable force and bringing it to this country.
that
The very watching ships bearing information
touch
an expedition had sailed would not reach this coast
before the expedition itself; and, therefore, I con-
tend;that, in addition to the naval means at our disposal
'l,(),r preventing invasion, it is absolutely and indispensa-
"Y necessary that we should have a force at home
r(ailable to meet the enemy if he should succeed
landing on our coast. I do not rest this
hlinion upon any danger existing at the present mo-
'"alat.—(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) I am will-
. AA to admit to any extent that in our relations with the
rferent nations of the world there is no present ground
meet
o
t, danger. If there were present danger the measure
Lots
the Government would bo insufficient to if
t, as it
Oca not provide for an immediate augmentation force,
‘lt simply lays the foundation of a prospective and per-
. ~," Auent arrangement, applicable for t the timed
that if to como as
"Qeasure of defence. Now,
leantSir,
i is sai we
to defend this country we must increase our army
e-'11(1 navy. I think the Right lion. Gentleman has fully
`lplained, arid I think also that I bad an opportunity on
4,fornaer occasion of explaining, that you could not
that
any permanent addition to your regular army
-1"),” would answer the purpose for which you require
Which
augmentation of force. This force of 80,000 men,
'uicia the Government propose to organize, could be
Periodically drilled at the same expense that would be
rlourred for the 8,000 men added to the regular army.
Andi: does any man mean to tell me that it is not
force
to be able to organize., drill, and equip such a
however
in a fortnight, than to have a force of 8,000 men,
good may be their discipline and their equip-
-1115 Int? You have also this advantage, as was stated
Public
the Right Honourable Gentleman. Any change in
te'lblic opinion—any alteration in the finances of the
'",',Umtry—might at the end of two years deprive you of
th© addition had made to the airier army, and
you Tea,
you would find you bad derived no benefit from the
expense incurred. When the men were disbanded, you
ould he in the same position as when you commenced
the augmentation; whereas if, at the end of two y
from ears,
motives of economy or financial embarrassment, it
was
resolved to discontinue this training army, or army
of Militia, you would still have them enrolled and liable
Servo in the moment of dangera--(Hear, hear.) In
the one case, therefore, you would have an opportunity
Ot adding 80,000 men to the effective force of the coun-
t`tY, but in the other you could only resort to their.)dieeaq means of common enlistment.—(tan
I
say, speaking generally, that the plan the Govern-
'uent have proposed appears to me to be a very good one.
(lear, hear.) I have always thought that, to a great
degree, voluntary enlistment might be taken advantage
of as a substitute ;or the ballot. I think itmight be worth
consideration whether the ingenious arrangement of
dividing the bounty into monthly payments should be
l'odopted as the only mode. Perhaps if it were left to the
PtiQa allow wintirg they wild receive isrge sum

them indulging themselves? Did not the House think
that if there be such characters, that they would take
Vie wiser course of coming over individually and dis-
persing themselves through the country, when they would
be able to do ten times more mischief than if they attacked
us in a body? He did not believe that anybody in this
country seriously entertained the slightest apprehension of
danger from France. Was there not evidence that the
French Government contemplated anything but an attack
upon us? Did they think that that Government would have
convected their Five per Cents. into Four-and-a-Half per
Cents. if they contemplated any such thing? He saw
around him capitalists who were engaged in making rail-
ways through France. Was there ever such an amount of
capital going there as at the present moment? Well, then,
he asked them whether they thought that they would send
money into a country which was inhabited by armed bandits?
Why, the Government must ask them to get rid of their
reason and common sense before they could be induced to
assent to this measure. Why, they were legislating against
France is if she were in the position of ancient Scandinavia,
who, without the slightest cause or pretext, was determined
to make war upon us for the mere hope of plunder, feeling
that they had nothing upon which we could retal ate. Had
they not rich cities in France? Had they not more silver
than we had in this country ? Was there not more bullion
in the Bank of Paris than in that of London ? (Hear,
hear.) Why, they appeared to think that the French
people were wholly -bereft of common sense, and did not look
two inches beyond their nose. But what was really the fact ?
Why they were second only to ourselves as a manufacturing
country. With the exception of England,no country depended
so largely on raw materials from abroad to carry on their ma-
nufactures as France did. Paris herself manufactured more
for exportation than any three capitals in Europe. All the
chances were against this apprehended attack being made
upon us. He saw his Right lion. Friend near him who was
endeavouring to persuade the House to abolish a tax that
pressed severely upon the people in the way of preventing
the spread of knowledge and education amongst them; yet
the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite made a motion
that night that would absorb the whole of the money that
was produced by this impost. Another Honourable Gentle-
man was seeking for the abolition of the duty upon hops;
but here was a proposition which would involve precisely
the expenditure of that amount. If they could play at sol-
diers without making the people pay for their amusement
he would not of course complain ; but, when they asked
him to consent to a measure which would press severely
upon the industry of the people, then he had a right to de-
mand their reasons for this expenditure. The Noble Lord
the Member for London, in reply, said, that because they
happened to be enjoying the blessings of peace, they should
take measures to prepare for war. Now, was that a good
reason for such a Bill as this? He was, on the contrary, of
opinion that every year they passed in this condition of peace
the better grounds had they for expecting a continuance of
peace. Would the Noble Lord tell him when this was to
brio r ;tie mnto. Lerd, in his speech upon
the Reform Bill in 1832, complained of the D0r0ugn—...,,,„
so long resisting the reductions of the army. The Noble
Lord and his party, however, had aided in gradually in-
creasing that army since, by adding to the supplementary
forces. They had their dockyard battalions, amounting to
10,000 men. They had also their veteran battalions, amount-
ing to 15,000 men, as good soldiers as any in England.
They had, however, now nearly doubled the uniform that
was supplied for their army since 1822. He recollected at
the end o f the year of 1830 there was as much unform
provided for their armed men as they had in France. Was
that necessarily or properly the fruit of peace? He
thought that we should naturally enjoy the ad-
vantage of peace in a time of peace. The Government
were not acting in the way to promote good feeling between
this country and France. Nothing had been done in France;
not one overt act had been committed by the French Go-
vernment during the last four years to warrant this outcry.
On the contrary, there was every reason to suppose it was
the wish of France to remain at peace with us. What was
said in 1818, when the revolution broke out? He (Mr.
Cobden) was taunted at that time with permitting himself
to be deceived ; for the French people, it was then said, were
preparing to make an onslaught upon us. Well, what took
place ? Every one now sees that the last four years have de-
monstrated that the French people were pacifically disposed.
But within the last three months an individual had obtained
a supreme power there—this individual, no doubt, bore an
ominous name, which was calculated to renew old antago-
nisms and alarm here ; and it is alleged that in consequence
of his having shown a disposition for war we were to arm '
ourselves. But has his conduct been such as to warrant '
such apprehensions? Has not the Noble Earl at the head of 1
the Government declared his belief in his pacific inten-
tions, and has not the Noble Lord the Member for London
said the same thing? This country was standing in an un-
worthy position. He thought it was both cowardly and im-
proper to take these unnecessary precautions against ima-
ginary dangers. He was speaking now in the name of a
large portion of the people of this country. The people 1
denounce this force, and declare they do not want it. Ex- I
elusive of the 15,000 veteran pensioners, he would under- '
take to point out 40,000 men who could be transported to
the coast of Sussex by railway, fresh and in good condition,
in one-tenth of the time it took when they were obliged to '
march on a most irksome and fatiguing journey. But it '
was invariably the rule in that House, on the Treasury
benches, to adopt the plea of destitution of the 1
forces when they were asking for an increase of
them. The Gallant Admiral who represented Gloucester, '
when sitting on the Treasury bench, had stated that we had
not a ship of war fit to send to sea on an emergency ; but
no sooner was he seated on the Opposition benches than he '
made a speech to show that we were completely hoaxed in
regard to the navy; for that we had steamers ready in the
Channel which could take up their position in such a way '
as to be within hailing distance from the North Foreland 1
to the Channel Islands. Now, he (Mr. Cobden) should
like to have a Committee to inquire into the actual number
of armed men in the country. He thought it would be a 1
good addition to make to the army and navy estimates if
they had a statement of the exact disposition of these '
troops. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite shakes his head '
at this, as if there was some mystery about it which we
should not tell the French. Now this was the old pedantic 1
excuse for withholding this information. The Noble Lord 1
the Member for Tiverton referred to our vast colonial em-
pire, which, he said, covered one-eighth of the surface of the '
habitable globe, and that we were to send our army and
navy to defend this vast territory. But he (air. Cobden), I
would ask whether it had ever occurred to those who indulge I
in such observations, that the taxation by which this large
force was maintained for this vast colonial empire was paid I
by the little specks of islands called Great Britain and Ire- '
land?—(Hear, hear.) Why should not Canada, for
instance, which contained 2,000,000 of inhabitants, who
were infinitely superior to our people, and who paid no tax I
into our Exchequer, pay for the support of the army which 1
she required for her protection? Canada did no such thing;
but she had actually put a prohibitive duty upon the pan- I
pers from Ireland entering her borders. His Hon. Friend the
Member for Manchester as well as himself urged the bring-
ing home of their soldiers from the colonies, with a view of 1
disbanding them. The Right Hon. Gentleman the late First
Lord of the Admiralty said that if we brought our great line-
of-battle ships from the Mediterranean, and placed them in
the Channel, we would only induce the French to do the 1
same, in order that they might meet us in the Channel. I
Why what did that mean but that we kept our fleet in I
the Mediterranean because the French did the same? It
was suggested by Arthur Young, some eighty years since, 1
that if we could induce France to bring their ships along- •
side ours in the Channel. and then burn them, it would I
be good policy to do so. But then comes the argument, 1
that since the introduction of steam we were not as safe as
we were before. This steam, it was said, had bridged
the Channel; but the bridge was in our possession, and not
in that of the enemy. When it becomes a question of steam
we have an infinite advantage over the rest of Europe. I
Why, the coals of England supply the French steamers in
Mediterranean ; and there was hardly a city in France that
was not lighted with British coal. As the Hon. Member for
Tyrone truly said the other night, for every steamer which
the French could fit out, England could fit out ten, and in
the course of two or three months an immense number of
our steamers could be converted into privateers, and our mer-
chant vessels might be diverted to warlike purposes of suffi-
cient power to command the ocean. Did they not think
that the French Government were perfectly well aware of
our immense force and our powers of destruction in the event
of war? Upon all these grounds he maintained that the
measure was wholly uncalled for—that the expense it in-
volved was most wanton, and, thinking so, he was deter-
mined to give to every stage of the Bill every opposition in
his power.—(liear, hear.)
Mr. BERESFORD said the Hon Member for the West
Riding was only following hisvocat ion in abusing everybody
who wore a red coat.—(Oh, oh.) But the Hon. Gentleman
was not the best authority on these subjects. The Hon.
Gentleman lately made a tour of peace and goodwill on the
continent, and on his return he prophesied a universal reign
of loving kindness and goodwill. But hardly had the lion.
Gentleman made his prophecy when they heard from all sides
wars and rumours of wars—the citizens of every capital in
Europe cutting the throats of their neighbours, and civil war
raging all over the continent.—(Oh, oh, and cheers.) He
was therefore not disposed to place implicit confidence in the
opinions of the lion. Member, because he had already been
tried and found decidedly wanting. The Hon. Member said
that in 1802 the French prepared to invade this country,
and that many months were wasted in these preparations.
But the lion. Member did not advert to what he stated
when he reckoned up the means of our defence—the faci-
lities which the railways now afforded for concentrating a
force on a given point. The Honourable Member ought to
have remembered that railways did not exist only in Eng-
land, but that by means of them it was in the power
of France to concentrate a much larger force for attack than
we could do for defence. But the measure had never been
defended on this side of the House, merely because they
dreaded an attack from France. Their doctrine had always
been that a country rich and powerful like England ought to
have a sufficient amount of force to preserve her, in case she
should be forced into war, in that amount of peace and se-
curity at home which she had always hitherto enjoyed. The
Hon. Member for Montrose and the Hon. Member for the
West Riding told them that all the danger was imaginary,
and that fear existed only in the minds of old women. Well,
fbehrboofoadrty,lMe
asobnutttrwossaoes
t heaiont
dan er.—(Laughter.) But younger men, and
hi
ne
retainedueec much
was
N.g 1
na do t t
000
ls
yeme
isnot
dh that tchhteo s Hon.shonwg
superiorig
eehetokal g o about the matter were not of his mind.
tor London, the Noble Lord the Member
pttmhi oeonr
af
nag
ef few w
was Gentlemen
not imaginary.o pp os t e ,The very
Noble
e
had all agreed that some such
Nay, more, the House had
measure as this was necessf
rey
nce for a general over a local
of that decision of the
equence
foriTiverton, as we as his Right Hon. Friend the Khan-
felt compelled, though
c e r admitted
of t-tehhniaeeetwe Exchequer,
ar
menlLa\loriteda'
militia;d'tt—yhh-ee illa
it was eawr inp nonce s
House its
atthe
stahmatetthime presente
itwas
eGonosvoenranamt w
h wou e
Government brought in He maintained
burdensome and oppressive to the people?
to being forward this Bill. The real question was Had the
free from the objections of taheßbilalllowitlh.llNicow,
their owl; cbonvthictiloenasst,
that they had. They had brought in a measure whdichte
the a s
ballot, he was bound to say it was an obwnoitxhioruesgamreasure ;
though when called upon to fight for their hearths and homes
he felt sure no Englishman would refuse to serve. The lion.
bai nie
odannG.
objection
unl
jl
dae ne
Gtt
ao elnl iaeonmnt bG thee
ern
pft for
nt NaVonfe st
othrune
giphnestot
pet rloe t
be
eo
volunteer.o
theg h tlatsht epr
ee would
raise such an objection, for be had without much difficulty
raised a corps of volunteers, not for the purpose of defend-
ing Old England, but for warfare on a foreign shore, and
that too in the face of difficulties thrown in the way by
the laws of this country. He thought, therefore, it was
ungrately, to say the least of it, on the part of the
lion. and Gallant Gentleman to raise this objection. Was
English feeling dead? Were high-minded and noble senti-
ments altogether extinct? Far be it from them to say so.
Then the Right lion. Member for Manchester said that
this Bill ought to be thrown out because it did not include
Ireland and Scotland, and he called upon the Noble Lord
the Member for Tiverton to defeat it on that ground. Now,
he maintained that her Majesty's Government had acted en-
tirely in accordance with precedent on this subject. The
Militia Bills for England never were the same as the Mi-
litia Bills for the other two parts of the kingdom. There
never had been a ballot in Ireland ; the militia there were
alwayswraised by beat of the drum ; the plan had never failed
tat had been done in Irelwi ? They had a remark-

the hands of Irishmen drawn from the very class of persons
ably fine police force in Ireland; and we had put arms into
from whom the militia force would be drawn in England.—
(Hear.) The Irish people were always good and loyal sub-
jects, and made the best of soldiers.—(Hear.) The House
had heard of the expense consequent upon the enrolment of
the militia. He would ask the House what was the part of
England which was most exposed to invasion? It was the
southern portion of the coast; and the Bill limited the en-
rolment of the militia to England in the first instance, con-
ceiving that it was in England we. were the most exposed
to invasion. The lion. Member for Manchester spoke of
the demoralization of the people, and the evils that would
arise to the trade of the country, in the event of the militia
being called out. He (Major Beresford) could not believe
that such an injury to trade wou'd arise; but if it did, what
would that be in comparison with the consequences which
would follow the invasion of our shores by a large foreign
force ? (Hear, hear.) Arid as to the demoralization, they
had no right to suppose there would be a greater amount of
it as the result of calling out the militia than of increasing
the regular army. Again, the militia was only called out for
a limited period, and in that limited period they would have
so much work assigned them that they would have no time
for idleness. If they had plenty given them to do they would
find no opportunity for that demoralization apprehended by,
the Hon. Member for Manchester. For his ( Major Beres•
ford's) part, he thought this a measure of protection.—(lron-
ical cheers and laughter from the Opposition, answered by
counter cheers ) He repeated that it was a measure of pro-
tection—of protection to the interests, the virtue, the industry,
and the chastity of Great Britain.—(Oh, oh, and laughter.)
Admiral BERKELEY said the lion. Gentleman the Mem-
ber for the West Riding appeared to have recovered his
courage, for some months ago he was the first among the
panic-stricken to condemn and execrate the Admiralty for
the way in which it conducted its business, and for leaving
the country totally unguarded. That showed the Honourable
Gentleman meddled with subjects he did not understand.—
(Hear. hear.) Let it be " soldier, sailor—tinker, tailor," it
was all the same thing to the Hon. Gentleman.—(A laugh.)
The Hon. Gentleman stated that he (Admiral Berkeley)
had said he could cover the Channel with vessels within hail
of one another. Did the Honourable Member know bow
many ships it would take to cover the space between the
North Foreland and the Channel Islands? So much for the
Hon. Gentleman's seamanship. The Hon. Gentleman had
also stated that if we made all this demonstration it would
elicit a similar manifestation on the part of France ; and he
(Admiral Berkeley) had been found fault with both in and
out of that House for making the statement to which he had
already referred. But he told the Honourable Gentleman
and the House, and he pledged his character for it as a naval
officer, that in twenty-four hours after the Government had
given the orders, there would be, not a force to resist,
but there would be a force on the look-out of armed
steamers reaching from the North Foreland to the Channel
Islands.—(hear, hear.) Did the Hon. Gentleman know
how many ships it would take to cover that space? Did be
Then ne mu 2..6 laamow. WhAt he was talking about.=
)now the distance?--(Some Hon. Member said " No.")
(Laughter.) Ile (Admiral Berkeley) count mows,
the Hon. Member's lamentable ignorance of his (Admiral
Berkeley's) profession, for the lion. Member was backed up
by one of the greatest officers in the navy, though he was
rather too fond of writing in newspapers. That Gallant
Officer had stated that if his (Admiral Berkeley's) state-
ment, that he could cover the Channel with armed steamers
twenty-four hours after the Government had given the
order, could be realized, " all the old ladies in England
might put on their nightcaps and go to bed.' --(Laughter.)
He (Admiral Berkeley) had thought that Gallant Admiral
was famous for his energy and resource ; but of late he
(Admiral Berkeley) had been inclined to change that
opinion, and to believe the Gallant Admiral's energy and
resource were failing him. That being his impression he
thought he might apply the words of the old song to the
Gallant Admiral, and say—
" The bullets and the gout
Have so knock'd his hull about
That he'll never more be fit for sea."
(Great laughter.) He (Admiral Berkeley) would tell the
House how the thing was to be done.—(" Ay, let's have it,
and a laugh.) We had before the Lisbon squadron returned
three steamers in commission in our ports • we had also three
ordinary ships in commission; and we had fifteen first-class
reserve steam-vessels in every point ready for sea, wanting
the men.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Then how were the
men to be raised? The marines, the officers, the seamen
engineers, and the seamen riggers, were in the dockyards or
on the spot, and the principal of the coast-guard had orders
to get 1,500 men ready to join at Davenport, Portsmouth,
or Sheerness, at which place soever they might be wanted.
In 1827, before railroads and electric telegraphs were in
vogue, in forty-eight hours a squadron manned in an efficient
manner sailed for Lisbon, and Mr. Canning boasted of the
circumstance in that House. If such a thing could be done
in those days he should be sorry to think that the navy of
this country had so completely lost the energy for which
they were distinguished as not to be able to repeat it at this
day with all the appliances they now had.—(Hear,hear.)
But he (Admiral Berkeley) was not at all satisfied that we
had men enough for the navy. He had said it over and
over again, and he repeated it now, that we ought not to be
content with less than one-third of the men in peace that we
required ie time of war. With regard to the efficiency of
the navy, he maintained that it was as efficient as the means
placed at the disposal of the Admiralty would allow it to
be.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. F. MAULE agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman
who had introduced the measure that it was the duty of
citizens to contribute to the internal defence of the country.
He ales agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman that the pre-
sent was a fitting time, inasmuch as there were no parti-
cular threatenings of danger, calmly to consider the manner
in which such a iduty should be discharged. The late Go-
vernment, only about a month ago, proposed to introduce a
specific measure for that purpose. He would not attempt
to disguise his opinion that, in these times, any militia
established by the ballot, would be most unpopular. The
object he had had in view was to make the duty as little bur-
densome and as little expensive as possible to those called
on to serve. It was true that the late Government had pro-
posed that a certain number should be chosen by ballot, but
they gave an opportunity to volunteers to serve if they
chose. They proposed that the number chosen should be
drilled and trained in their own locality, and that they
should not be liable to removal from their own localities
except in case of actual or threatened invasion, and only
for the period mentioned in the Bill. That seemed to him to
be the extent to which they were entitled to call on the
people fur a local defence. Any further defence he thought
would be better effected by an addition to the regular army.
As to expense, the militia, once embodied and efficient,
would be as costly as any other force. The present Bill,
however, proposed to go a great deal further than
the measure which he wished to introduce. Ile
should not oppose the introduction of the present
measure, but he thought it clearly intended the
revival of the regular militia. It extended only to
England, and he was glad of that ; it implied that the
party called on to serve was not necessarily to be drilled
in his own neighbourhood, but might be sent at any time
during the five years' service to be drilled at a distance,
either on actual or threatened invasion, or insurrection or
tumult. The persons serving would be liable to be re-
moved by order in Council from their own localities, and
be sent to serve either in Scotland or Ireland. That was a
far more burthensome service than that which be bad pro-
posed in the Bill he had sought to introduce. The Right
lion. Gentleman the Secretary of War stated that it was
meant to get rid of the unpopularity of the ballot, and that
to do so the'system of volunteers would first be tried. Ills
own impression was, that if there was a regular militia, few
volunteers would be found. He admitted that one volunteer
was worth many pressed men. A bounty was
to be offered
of It. or 41., and the Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that
it would be paid either all at once or by small monthly pay-
ments, subject to the regulations of the Secretary at War.
He did not understand what regulations could be established
if the money was paid on service being taken. If it were
paid all at once, they might rest assured that few such
bounty-men would make their appearance at the second
training.--(A laugh.) He should say that he did not
believe they would find any
man willing to take upon him-
self the liability of being removed from his own district for a
paltry payment of half-a-crown a month, or one penny per
day. He was persuaded that, under the proposed system,
they should come at last to the ballot, 'because they could
not get a sufficient number of volunteers. A length of time
must elapse before the machinery fur the ballot could be got
up ; and he wished to know whether the Right Lion. Gen-
tleman had included in his estimate the expense of that
machinery ?
Mr. WALPOLE was understood to say that that expense
would fall on the district.
Mr. F. MAULE continued—Then there was to be a county
rate for that purpose, and a new charge was to be thrown on
the country gentlemen.— (Hear, hear.) Now, it certainly
seemed somewhat strange that a Ministry which
professed
an earnest desire to alleviate the burdens of the country
gentlemen should thus propose to add to those burdens.
But, after all, he would answer for it that the new force
could not be brought into the field in less than ten months.
The object or the late Government had been to raise a force
which could be brought together in ten weeks, and to have
that force as well drilled as any that could be raised under
the measure then under the consideration of the House. If
they were to have recourse to the old and regular militia,
he warned them that in time of peace their plan would
itnoilliitlaiainitnationbtharermacikns
atnhyeythilYgoUllicklefinthde
utterly fail. He warned them that until they drew their
itsh utterlyape th ethey
co impossiblentem
plated, as it would be to uphold the efficiency of a regiment
which, after having been kept together for ten weeks,
should be allowed to disperse for the remainder of the year.
If they were to have a militia force at all, it ought to be a
very large force. They ought to have at least 150,000 of
theirtptthaoakesserve
msee
ro;yvuoaoetunu
after
ofhgtft ,ehmri wet
eythlnhooone
auywgtg oh2hbuoat leadft
auoalnr etedata
al vltt;
oenhhweee ndy
toaitoigheuv ieeg•
mi
havoegtersen3booooet. rfr
t2col lreds of teyhr‘greeuhnoi
orfuoesbehind
eettmrooe
the main provisions of the measure proposed by the late
Government ; and the adoption of that measure would, he
felt persuaded, cause the burden of defending the country to
fall as lightly as possible on its citizens. lint the present
proposal would, he believed, be very unpopular ; and although
he would not oppose the introduction of the Bill, he could
not pledge himself to vote for it on a future occasion if its
principle were the exact adoption of the old system of a
regular militia.—(Hear.)
Mr. lIOBIIOUSE said, until the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Fox Maule) had advanced the very powerful argu-
ments he had addressed to the House, he (Mr. Hobhouse) was
inclined to think that all the authority was on the Opposi-
tion side of the House, and all the argument, on the other. '
He hoped he should be the last man to vote for our shores
being left exposed to invasion ; but there was one thing he
must claim for a measure of that kind, and that was that at
least the precaution to be taken should bear some propor-
tion to the danger.— (Hear, hear.) It was not so in the pre-
sent case. They had danger which was infinitesimally
small provided for by a security which was proportionably
large.—(Hear, hear.) That was the reason why, if Hon.
Gentlemen on the Opposition side of the House would support
him, he would take a division even at this stage of the Bill.
lie was convinced the danger had been greatly magnified.
While all foreign powers were at peace with us, he thought
there was no reason for a Bill which put the country to so
Hecohe
much expense, and called men from the plough and the
their., votes, to consider the re-
Gentlemen,
wg ' andaa
vsb ce
r f
loom to become soldiers ; and if the House would listen to
Idyasllon.ourable
reason, and not to its prejudices, ho believed they would
grea at the present moment
quite sure
the Noble Lord the Mem or iverton would not say
Lnieileandb.ese
ctyk. the
te
that
utterly reject such a Bill.
in France, under the regime of Louis Napoleon than it was
Philippe.of Louis , ippe. The House would
under the dynasty • that
remember the Syrian campaign, and when the time
IGa inotnl
the
hmb
eeet before
rorf Francetlhyae
came when
danger. lie did not say that France in so
withdrew from blow, she
was actuated On the con-
withdrawing
trary, he believed she was actuatedby prudence and by a
the Irenchmibgyhtphusaisl•leansitrmui
ercial interest‘
calamities
war. Again, in the Pritchard affair we had the same me-
nace and the same language of remonstrance addressed to
us
the time for action came, France receded,
• but when
and peace was most happily maintained between that
country and this. Again, in the time of the French Republic
it would be in the recollection of the Home with what acchi.

mation the warlike message of General La Hitte was re-
ceived when there appeared to be a prospect of violating
the principle of peace with England. The' people of
the country heard of that message for a time, but like all
the other threats that proceeded from the same power, it
evaporated, and ceased to possess any significance. The
best security for the preservation of peace between France
and England was the knowledge that in any such emer-
gency the rest of Europe would, for its own sake, take arms
against France, and revenge the cause of England.—(Hear,
hear.) It was precisely the case of a private individual.
The individual was deterred from the commission of crime
by a fear of the consequences ; and so in this case w•,uld
France be deterred from commencing a war. But was there
no security whatever in diplomacy? If, in spite of all oar
treaties, we were still required to take such means for re-
pelling sudden aggression, our embassies were maintained at
a great cost and to no purpose, and diplomacy had become
a mockery and a delusion.—(liear, hear.) But wars very
seldom took place with the suddenness which was now
talked of. Negotiations took place, correspondence was ex-
changed, explanations were offered, recriminations perhaps
followed, and at the end of several months war might take
place ; but in the meantime the several powers had time to look
after their armies. At all events, if a sudden attack were
meditated, the precautions we were taking against it were
quite ineffective to the purpose and disproportionate to the
danger. If any precautions should be taken, he held that
our navy was amply sufficient to repel all possible aggres-
sion.—(Hear.) He would give the House the same advice
which the Delphic oracle gave to the Athenians, and tell
them to betake themselves to their wooden walls. At all
events, do not try to raise a militia force. It always had been,
and always would be, an unpopular force in this country,
because it might be directed against the liberties of this
country itself. Suppose a sudden attack should be made
upon the country, there was spirit enough in the people, and
strength enough in our regular force, to keep the French
army from reaching London, and to place it, between our
army and navy, in a very uncomfortable predicament.
He (Mr. Hobhouse) was not disposed to embarrass the
Honourable Gentlemen opposite, but at the same time he
was not disposed to trust them, and he intended therefore
to move the reading of the Bill that day six months. A
danger which we had escaped for so many years could not
now be so imminent that the Hon. Gentlemen opposite
could not delay this measure till July or August. The new
Parliament aught to settle this Bill.—(Hear.) It should be
discussed upon the hustings, for it was a question in which
the people were deeply interested.—(Hear.) ,The militia
system would be a fertile source of jobbing. The land would
swarm with colonels—(Laughter)—and we should see
nothing but red coats. Men would be distracted alike from
their business and their pleasures, and all upon no earthly
pretence that could be justified by argument. If introduced,
these levies would be utterly useless in a time of war, for a
slight glance at history would show that raw levies had
always fled before the fire of disciplined troops. That being
the case, and a number of his friends agreeing with him
that the measure was an inexpedient, one, ho should move
that the Bill be read that day six months.
are_ NE WDEGATE was proceeding to address the House,
but
Mr. HOBHOUSE rose to order, and reminded the Speaker
that his amendment had not been put.
The SPEAKER said, the motion before the House was,
that the Bill for calling out the militia be introduced by cer-
tain Members, and the only amendment which could be
moved was, either the direct negative to this, or that some
other Members be ordered to bring in the Bill.—(Ministe-
rial cheers.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE was sorry the Hon. Member for Lin-
coln would not find his name entered upon the journals of
the House, for he really believed that could have been his
only motive in bringing forward the amendment.—(A
laugh.) There appeared a great discrepancy between the
statements made by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, for the Hon.
Member for the 'West Riding advised us to send Commis-
missioners to France and ask that power to burn their fleet,
while the Honourab M
le ber for Lincoln (Mr. Hob-
house) suggested that theme force of the navy should be
doubled.—(Hear, hear.) As to the demand that the
Bill should be left unpassed until the constituencies had
pronounced upon it, he supposed Hon. Gentlemen opposite
wanted a cry with which to go to the country, feeling
sure that the measure would be unpopular when viewed in
the light in which they were going to put it at the hustings.
He almost began to regret that the Noble Lord lately
at the bead of the Government and Lord Derby had
repressed the warnings which bad been addressed by the
press to the people on the possibility of a sudden invasion.
He fully appreciated the motives which had dictated this
course on the part of the late and the present Premier. The
language held by the press must have been irritating to
the people of France, but the Noble Lord, as well as Lord '
Derby, forgot that there was a faction in this country who
would only be controlled by popular clamour; and the
press therefore, perhaps rightly, believed that this House
would not have strength enough to carry any measure for
the protection of our shores unless they excited the alarm
of the people. Ile feared that the democratic principle was
working so strongly that, without a popular cry, as it was
called, we should scarcely be able to adopt any measure of
defence. He hoped, however, the Government would not
be deterred by any feeling of this sort, and by what had
been said by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, from bringing for-
ward a measure of such importance as that before the House.
Mr. HORSMAN felt strongly the responsibility resting
upon the Right Hon. Gentleman who had brought forward
the present measure, but a great responsibility rested also
upon every Member of that House in regard to it.—(Hear.)
One of the difficulties which presented themselves to his
mind with reference to the scheme was, that he was unaware
of any precedent for demanding so large a military esta-
blishment as was now proposed without some pressing neces-
sity was apparent. He believed that the means of defence
which had failed in the country during the last war, and
which after 40 years of peace had become so unsuited to
the feelings of the people, would, it was not difficult to fore-
see, fail again on any emergency. Our safety should
not rest on the forbearance of an enemy, but on our
own strength—(Hear)—and it was the opinion of military
men that the tate of England would be sealed for ever if
her defence was left to a militia instead of a regular army.
Indeed, it would be a folly and madness no one could be
guilty of to expose a militia to the trained troops of
France. If, then, there was any reason to apprehend an
invasion, such a force would not constitute an adequate de-
fence, and it would be costly without being efficient. There
was no difficulty in inducing the House to increase our
forces when cause was shown for it. On looking back to
the acts of the late Government, he found that from 164.6
there had never been a proposition to increase the estimates
which had not been carried by a majority of 4 to I, while in
Sir Robert Peel's Government gainer motions were carried
by a still larger majority. It was the practice of successive
Administrations to say they were obliged to reduce our
establishmente, while the fact eras that this very question of
maintaining or increasing them was one on which every
Administration had maintained the support of Parliament.
If there really was a necessity fur this increase to our de-
fences let Government come down to the House and lay the
case before them, and he would venture to say there was no
increase the House of Commons would not sanction.— ( Hear,
hear.) For his own part he did not attach much weight to
the rumour of war, but at the same time, whenever the Go-
vernment measure was discussed, it should be approached by
him in no hostile spirit.—(Hear, hear.)
Captain BOLDER() said it was the duty of the Govern-
ment to keep the country in a state of security, and it was
not in that state at present. Though he believed that the
present Prince President of France had no disposition to
attack this country, where he had so long resided, yet who
could foretell what might take place during the next twelve
months? Another dictator might then be placed at the
head of the French army with less amicable feelings. He
referred to the good service which the militia had, in past
days, done the country, and stated that he should have no
objection to place the regular army on the same footing as
in 1818, and have the militia besides. lie trusted never to
see the day when a foreign army should be found on the
soil of this country, but, should such an event occur, lie
had no fear that that army, however numerous, could
make any impression on so great and powerful a nation as
Great Britain.
Colonel SI DTHORP had the honour of holding an im-
portant commission in that most valuable force, the old re-
gular militia, and he expressed his opinion that there was a
great superiority in the measure of the present Government
as compared with that of the last Government. He placed
confidence in the present Government, and therefore he
should support the introduction of the Bill ; but he would
not be bound by all the details, as he preferred the system
of the old militia without alteration.
The O'GORMAN MAHON, without going into the
details of the proposed measure, desired to express his ex-
treme regret at the speech delivered by the Hon. Member
for the West Riding, and, on the part of his countrymen,
he begged to tender to the Secretary at War thanks tor the
manner in which he bore testimony to their fidelity and
loalt, whenever they were called to the defence of their
country, and to the maintenance of the honour and dignity
of the Crown.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
merely rose to express his hope that Hon. Gentlemen
opposite would not call on the House to divide. The
Government were, in fact, only obeying the order of the
House, and all they asked for was permission to lay on
the table of the House that Bill which the majority
of the House had decided should be prepared; and this was
his answer to the lion. and Gallant Member for Lincoln ;
and he assured that lion. and Gallant Member that
bye his
vote that night he was pledged to nothing, but to emit
the Government to comply with the order of the House.—
(Hear, hear.) It was for these reasons that he should, only
for a few moments, trespass on the attention of the House.
He should not be induced to attempt to answer the lion.
Member for the West Riding, who had made one of those
able and agreeable speeches which be (the Chancellor of
The Hon. Member was not merely aga inst the militia, but
he;
eEnxtierheleyqudeirs)agarlewedayws
iltlhstetoheedm.t_o
(wHietahr, plaenasdurlea,utghhotuegr.l)i
against all defence.—(Hear, hear.) His argument was an
argument against the line, against the household troops,
the artillery, and the cavalry; and it proceeded on the
assumption that, in the present state of the world, no
country need defend itself.—(Renewed laughter.) He (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) could not give his adhesion to
those opinions. He could not agree with the lion. Gentle-
man that the events of the last few years, to which he had
opinions,as authority for what he had stated—(Hear, hear)--
and had triumphantly
na tohfo r ius er p e
and when he recollected, since the date to which he had
ahisrefaedrroepdtintgo tthhoesme
commenced, that in
gh
the course of eight weeks four pitched battles had been fought,
appealed,re ferre d
wthhhaeodnu e ahcnoe
and that the Baltic sag e
had been both blockaded,
he really could not agree with the Hon. Gentleman that
those were the evidences of that halcyon period the approach
of which the Hon. Gentleman to antici
repeathear.) it,
(Hear,
years unfortunately witnessed, there were features in the
present political arrangements of the world, of long en-
that, totally irrespective of the disturbances we had of late
durance, which forbade him to believe that we had arrived at
that period of permanent and enduring tranquillity of which
we heard so often.—( Hear, hear.) Ile must repeat that, so
long as he found the strongest places in the possession of the
weakest powers, so long as he observed that throughout
Europe and Asia the richest countries were under the do-
ballo t ;a
rbrua
nt
ghee:
of things which would lead no doubt hereafter, he
state
dontthinagtent
minion of the poorest sovereigns, he felt that that was a
hoped not in our times, to very great changes, which he
could not believe would be effeeted by any other agency
than war.—(Hear, hear.) Upon the measure which his
Right lion. Friend had explained to to the House he would,
as he hoped no division would take place, scarcely Witch ,
pa was
otphoes ee
but in answer to the sight Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Perth, he must say that from him he collected that his chief
might remind the Right Hon. Gentleman that
offensive the mea
ment was introduced absolutely.
Mr. F. MAULE—The Right Hon. Gentlemanquite mis-
understood me. I maintained that there could be t
no silicon
militia system without the ballot.
osuprpeoswithioicni ohetlhleadmie:insulsreelfw
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER continued
.—lle was glad to perceive that the elements of opPoiti°ll
were already diminishing.—(" Hear, hear," and No,
Gen-
no.") At all events, he would remind the Riht lion. Gen-
tleman that in this case the question of the ballot was a
matter of opinion. It was impossible for the Bight Hon.
Gentleman Qr for the Goyerument to refer to PAY data on

such a point which could influence the opinion of the i tion was one of the most important upon which they aould
House. He could say the Government had given this sub- go to the country. It was one which would affect the whole
ject the most painful investigation, that they had consulted tone tenour, and character of the Administration. Before
the highest military authorities, that they had weighed all Parliament could ask the people to assent to such a men-
the evidence before them with the utmost attention they sure, it was incumbent thoroughly to sit the mode in which
could command, and that the result of their inquiries was, the present resources of the werecountryeste
i n wasused. expressed
erprined-
that they had arrived at a different conclusion from the ciple which guided him on this qu
Right Hon. Gentleman.—( Hear, hear.) In case this Measure in this avowal, that he woule rather see 10,000 efficient
should; be adopted by Parliamhnt, of course the future must regulars added to the army, than that 100,000 in-
determine which had formed the correct judgment, but he dustrious artisans should be converted into a militia force.
begged the Right Hon. Gentleman to understand that there He therefore appealed to the Right Hon. Gentleman whe-
was, upon the part of the Government, a conviction that ther it was his intention to decide upon this matter without
voluntary enlistment might be appealed to in raising a mi- going to the country? Having determined 'not to decide
litia with great and even complete success (Hear, hear)-- upon one important question, concerning which it was well
and this was a measure which he agreed with the Right known the country had come to a thoroughly unanimous
Hon. Gentleman the future alone could decide. With these opinion, without referring it to the people, and this notwith-
few observations he would again express the hope which he standing the subject had been sifted for many years, he ear-
had already ventured to express, that notwithstanding some- nEstly asked the Government whether they considered it
what of fiery addresses from some H. Gentlemen opposite, wise or politic to tail upon the Misuse of Commons imme-
the House -would see that it would Ye the fairest and most diately to decide upon a question which had not been sifted,
friendly course, in the present position of the question, to and which was not thorqughly well known and understood
allow the Bill to be brought in. There would be many op- by the country._(. Question, question !")
portunities when it could be most amply discussed hereafter, Mr. OSBORNE
wished the Bill to be laid on the table
and they must all feel that no general discussion could be that the opinion of
the country might be taken upon it.
satisfactory until they had the provisions of the Bill before Mr. WALPOLE reminded the House that the motion for
them. He trusted, therefore, that no division would take leave to bring in the Bill had already been agreed to; and
place at the present stage. the object of the present motion was to authorise certain in-
Mr. BRIGHT thought that the appeal which they had dividuals o bring in the Bill in obedience to that decision.
just heard from the Right Hon. Gentleman was somewhat Should the House accede to the motion, it was not his inten-
singular, seeing that the Right Hon. Gentleman sat where tion to propose the second reading after Easter.
he did through a violation of the very rule which he wished The motion was then agreed
them now to observe ; but really, after a fortnight upon the The report of the Committee of Supply WAS brought up,
benches opposite, Hon. Gentlemen acquired a gravity of and the resolutions were agreed to.
face which enabled them to ask anything from the other EXCHEQUER-BILLS.
aide of the House.—(Hear, hear.) The order of the Home, Upon the report of the Committee of iirays and Means,
also, to which the Right Hon. Gentleman had so pathetically being a vote for 17,742,800/. Exchequer-bills,
referred, had passed before the Right Hon. Gentleman Mr. W. WILLIAMS asked when these bills'
would be
re-
enlisted under the banners of the vindictive Noble Lord who deemed, and what was the rate of interest?
sat below the gangway.—(" Ob, oh," and laughter.) He The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said they
hoped, now that the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton would be redeemed next June, and until next June it wan
had played tit for tat with the Noble Lord the Member for not possible to say the amount of interest.
London, that they should, hear no more of the differences Mr. HUME said that the Chancellor of the
aExchequer
between them.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gen- shou'd take the opinion of the House before settling
tch the
tleman stated that his Hon. Friend the Member for price of Exchequer-bills. It was his duty the
to w.
the West Riding had argued against any defence whatever, market, and to make the cheapest possible bargain for the
on the assumption that the time had arrived when no such public.
defence was necessary; but that was not a correct repre- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the
sentation of the case, for his Hon. Friend did not lose sight present object was merely to complete an arrangement which
of the fact, that at this moment they were voting for that had been commenced in January last. The rate of interest
very defence three times the sum which the General Go- was settled then, and it was not in the power of the House
vernment of the United States required for its military or the Minister to alter the contract. Next June it would be
purposes, and for the whole services of its general govern- open to them to propose a new arrangement.
ment, and that they were voting 15,000,0001. annually for Mr. GLYN thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman was
the very purposes which the Right Hon. Gentleman took under some mistake. sae the bills of January had to be re-
upon him coolly to suppose they were altogether neglecting. newed in March. WM they were now voting would apply
—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken of to June. He believed there was no instance within the last
the responsibility he felt with reference to this measure as a century in which the interest on Exchequer-bills had been
member of the Government. He could only say that the lower than at present, but there never was a time when there
Government had no responsibility whatever upon the sub- was so much money lying unemployed in the Bank of Eng-
ject, provided the opinion of the country were adverse to the land as at the present time. He thought it was the
proposition.—(Oh, oh.) He would not argue the case, be- bounden duty of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to go
cause he took it for granted that a representative Govern- into the money-market and make the best arrangement he
ment was not bound to raise taxes and establish new aye- could, always taking care that the rate he fixed on was not
tems of defence, if the public were opposed to it ; and there so low as to bring the bills into disrepute.
was another kind of protection which they were going to The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured the
abandon upon that very ground.—(Hear.) He would not Hon. Gentleman who last addressed the House that he en-
refer to the military part of the case, lest he should rouse tirely agreed with the principles which he had laid down
some belligerent major or pugnacious admiral, but he asked, respecting Exchequer-bills.
H e was
tipmeserfectl did y aw
not are that
if we had been now 37 years without a militia force, if no any rate which had been paid in former apply
evil had resulted from the abandonment of the Bill of 1848, to the time in which we live. But he only rose to correct
and if this measure were not the result of panic, that they tbe lion. Gentleman in saying that the rate of interest on
should postpone it for some little time longer, in order to Exchequer-bills had not rested with the present Government,
take the opinion of the country upon it. The first cost of this since they had been in office, but that the arrangement was
force was estimated at 400,0001., but when the arms were in- made by their predecessors.
eluded he took it for granted that the question was, whether Mr. WILLIAMS said the rate was settled in March, and
they should involve themselves in an expenditure of at least the Exchequer-bills were exchanged in June. He thought
1,600,0001. in the next five years, To come to the working they ought not to allow the Chancellor of the Exchequer to
of the measure. Of course they will find it much more have this vote without a distinct understanding what
easy to raise volunteers where work was scarce and wages the rate of interest was to be. The present rate of interest
ranged at from Is. to ls. 6d. a-day, as in the south-western was 21. ss. 7id. per annum, which was more than 2e per
counties, than in Lancashire or Yorkshire, where work was cent. The Bank 'of England was now lending money at 2
abundant, and the wages averaged from 2s. 6d. to ss. He per cent., and he was informed that bills were now dis-
assumed that in these latter districts the voluntary system counted in the City at as low a rate as 1i per
would fail, and that recourse must be had to the ballot. cent. • and bills which had even six months ton a run t 2 percent
Did the Right Hon. Gentleman know the system on which He did not see why Government Bills should not be consi-
capital and labour were connected there? Let the Hon. sidered as good as private bills; and, indeed, it was, for the
Gentlemen enter a woollen or cotton manufactory, where premium on Exchequer Bills amounted to a year and. a
there were some hundreds or might be a thousand persons half's interest. He thought that interest at the rate of ld.
employed, and he would see the raw material going on per day would be quite sufficient. He considered' that the
through a succession of processes, and being worked up in late Chancellor of the Exchequer was guilty of a great job
machinery of the most costly haracter until the whole in giving so much more interest than was requisite.
manufacture was completed. The employment in all Mr. MASTERMAN said, what they were now doing was
those mills was by a succession of links. The merely to authorise the substitution of one set of Exche-
chain of industry was of a most ingenious and quer Bills for another. It had nothing to do with the rate
wonderfully arranged character. It was the most of interest.
important and most productive industry in the Mr. HUME said this was a vote to renew the Bills, but
country ; but the Right Hon. Gentleman proposed to take he was not aware whether it was to renew-the Bills due he
by ballot the men between the ages of 18 and 35 who were March or June, and he thought this was the time to fix the
engaged in those delicate, difficult, and skilled operations. rate of interest.
He should like to know how the Right Hon. Gentleman's Alderman THOMPSON said he supposed the Chancellor
project would work in those manufactories; because that was of the Exchequer would advertise, at the proper time, to
a question which they would have to meet, and from the renew the Bills, and he would then fix the rate of interest,
difficulties of which they would find it impossible to escape.— and he had no doubt he would exercise a proper discretion
(Hear, hear.) It was all very well for the Government to upon it.
take an airing on the British lion, as was said of the Noble The motion was then agTlNYreed toBILL.
Lord the Member for Tiverton, the other night—(Laughter) MU
—but when they came to work the question, and when the The House then went into Committee on the Mutiny Bill
balloting system was put in operation, they would find that In reply to Mr. HUME,
it was not the great capitalist alone, but the workmen whom Mr. BERESFORD stated that the vote for the Kafir war
they were about to withdraw from their regular and well- would be taken on Friday.
paid industry who would be the steady and implacable ene- Mr. A. HASTIE moved an amendment on the 61th clause
mica to the measure now proposed. And it was not merely of the Bill, to relieve private families in Scotland from the •
because they would take away men from their work who billeting of soldiers.
were earning 3s. or 4s. per day, and subject them to the Mr. BERESFORD said that in England there was a
evil 'influences of the militia drill, that this opposition large number of licensed victuallers, who were required to
would be excited. It was because it would break receive soldiers upon billets. In Scotland, however, the
a link in the chain of which he had spoken, and would con- number of licensed victuallers was small; and the practice
sequently do twenty times the mischief that it would do if for 140 years had been to billet soldiers, when necessary,
unskilled and agricultural labourers merely were taken away upon the inhabitants. The subject had been referred to the
from the employment in which they were engaged. He Judge Advocate, who expressed his opinion that any altera-
entreated the Government to neamine this argument before tion of the law would be a great hardship upon the licensed
bringing in their measure, and see whether they did not victuallers, and that under the present system the grievance
think it entitled to some weight. There was only one ob- of which the inhabitants complained was very slight.
servation he was desirous of making with regard to the Mr. HUME asked how private families in Eugiand would
general principle. He was afraid that by the establish- like to have soldiers sent into their houses at any hour of the
ment of a militia system and bringing 80,000 men through a day, some of them having female servants and little accom-
military training as proposed, they would be laying the foun- modation ?—(A laugh.)
dation of two great evils in this country. One was, that in After a few words from Mr. Cowart and Mr. DUNCAN,
times of great suffering and political discontent the people the Committee were about to divide, but
would be taught to refer to conflicts in the street for a re- Mr. P. HOWARD expressed a hope that the Government
medy to political grievances, rather than to debates and di- would consent to consider the grievance complained of.
visions in that House.—(Hear, hear.) The other was, that The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Go-
in consequence of the military spirit thus cultivated, the vernment was perfectly willing to consider every grievance,
people would gradually be led to the toleration of great but he could not think that at one o'clock in the morning the
armies; and great armies, as they all knew, were of all in- Committee would be asked to divide upon this Bill.
stitutions those which were most hostile to the security Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL thought it would be better not to
and permanent freedom of nations.—(Hear, hear.) press tbe case now.
He begged, in conclusion, to put to the Chancellor The amendment was then withdrawn, and the Bill passed
of the Exchequer—seeing that, as the Government them- through Committee.
selves had confessed, there was no urgency with respect to The Marine Mutiny Bill also passed through Committee.
the Bill—seeing, as he (Mr. Bright) had shown, that it The House having resumed, leave
was Oaten to Mr.
would interfere materially with the industry of a large class Bouverie to bring in a Bill to abolish the criminal jurisdic-
of the people—seeing that it would cause a great additional tion of the Ecclesiastical Courts in certain cases (the Hon.
taxation, and lay the foundation of something new in this Member referred to cases of brawling and defamation); to
country, at least in modern times—whether he ought not to Sir W. Jolliffe, to bring in a Bill to continue an Act of
postpone the measure until the meeting of the next Parlia- the 1241da year of her present Majesty, to prevent the spread-
ment, when the opinion of the country would be ascertained ing of contagious or infectious disorders among sheep, cattle,
respecting it.— (Hear, hear.) There was an admirable pre- and other animals ; to Lord Naas, to bring in a Bill to con-
cedent for this in the conduct of the Government with re- tinue certain Acts relating to linen, hempen, and other 121 A-.
ference to the question of protection. He confessed he did nufactures in Ireland.
not anticipate that if he should have the honour of being re- Mr. KERSHAW moved that the Select Csenmittee on
turned again to that House, there would be any change in Manchester and Salford Education do consist of sixteen
his views on this subject; because he felt that he was backed Members, and that Mr. Pilkington be added to the
in his opposition to it by the universal opinion of the consti- Committee.
tuency which he represented. He had also heard that at Mr. WALPOLE objected to the constitution of the Com-
Sheffield a petition against the measure had been signed by mittee being altered; it would prevent the report from being
2,500 electors out of 4,000, the highest number which had satisfactory.
ever polled in that borough. Surely the Government would Sir W. CLAY said, that the Nonconformist party, whe
not proceed with the measure in the face of a remonstrance had been such friends to popular education, were certainly
so important.—(Hear, hear.) entitled to have more than one representative upon the
Mr. WHITESIDE had had RO intention of addressing the Committee. The Committee, as at present constituted, could
House, but some opinions which had been expressed by the not give satiATTENsfaction to that bodythat the friends of the volun-
Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down induced him to Mr. W. P agreed
trespass for a few moments on the attention of the House. tary principle ought to have a voice in the Committee.
The Hon. Gentleman bad talked of the gravity with which There was a majority of 10 out of 15 Members of the Corn-
the Chancellorof the Exchequer had asked him and those mittee who were hostile to the merits of the Bill that was
who thought with him to permit the Bill to be introduced to be submitted to them. If the Hon. Member for Stock..
to the House; and perhaps the Right Hon. Gentleman had port persisted in moving his resolution, he should move, as
erred in expecting that the Hon. Gentleman, who was so an amendment, that the number of Members upon the Com-
sensitive with respect to a " pugnacious t t miral, and bel- mittee be seventeen, in order that there might be one more
ligerent major-generals"—(Hear, hear) —would exercise so Member to do justice to the Bill before the House. So little
much forbearance as to permit a measure the principle of chance was there in the opinion of the promoters of the
which had been approved by the House, to be laid on the Bill that justice would be done to them, that there was
table.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had also se- every inclination to withdraw it. He did not think it pel-
verely censured the conduct of the Noble Lord the Member Bible that the Bill, with a select committee containing soi
for Tiverton; but he was hardly se charitable as might many decided opponents, could have a fair chance in its
have been expected of him with regard to the motives which future progress.
actuated public men in the course they took on great and Mr. KERSHAW would not object to the committee
important questions. Notwithstanding, however, the being increased to 17.
weight of the lion. Gentleman's censure—and he admitted Mr. M. GIBSON said that the friends of secular inatruc-
that the censure must be estimated by its weight and tion complained of not being quite fairly represented in the
the height from which it fell—(Hear, hear)—he (Mr. committee. He agreed with his Hon. Friend that those who
Whiteside) was still of opinion that the public would have represented voluntary views ought to have a fair hernu in
little difficulty in deciding whether the Noble Lord, in the this committee. He was not, therefore, adverseto
bayin-
course he had taken on this question, : had been actuated by mination of another Gentleman of their views; but,
unworthy motives or by a patriotic desire to serve the best agreed with the Home Secretary as to the
interests of his country.—(Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had now proposed, the interests of all parties would be beat con-
urged them to leave the question of a militia to the decision stilted by not disturbing the present arrangement.
of the hustings. Was this the Constitution of England e_. The House then divided, when there aPPeared
(Hear, hear.) Was every question to be submitted to the For Mr. Kersha ' - ...
24
committee as
w s motion... '" 53
hustings?—(Hear, hear.) Were Members of that House Agaiust it •• ... ••• ~. -29
mere delegates, bound to act according to the instructions of Majority '" '.. ...
1 ' lock.
their constituents? or were they to give their constituents The House adjourned at 20 initiates Past o c
the benefit of their judgment, their knowledge, their reason,
and their experience upon the questions which were sub-
mitted to them?—(Hear, hear.) The Hon Gentleman had
said he would not argue the question with them, and he must
do him the justice to say that he had not argued the ques-
tion.—(A laugh.) Whenever the Hon. Gentleman spoke on
questions connected with , the manufacturers he always
listened to him with interest, because he was sure to derive
instruction and profit from him ; but he must frankly say
that the same vigorous intellect was not apparent when the
Hon. Gentleman talked upon questions with which he
not particularly acquainted.—(Bear.) lie (Mr. Whiteside)vi
was
wished to *k the Hon. Member for the West Ridi e
n'
for whom he entertained a strong personal respect, and
who, he admitted, was entitled to :
,;the respect of every
Member of the House on account of the constituency he re-
presented and his own great ability—he appealed to the
Hon. Member whether when he spoke of seeing universal
peace on earth established, he really believed that thee
nearl)re
anyevidence of the see
sent condition of the world afforded
approach of that happy state of things?
rational liberty making progress, and ' Did bdeetetice trie
umphant ?—(Hear.) He rather thought he
addressing the
virtue ale, -Lee. And
when the Hou. Member talked
French Government to disband their tsholedifers
their ships, he wished to et nab r iflie would
ask the Hon. tt'e— e
An non. Member ambassador
undertake to be the
(Laughter.) spearshadu Againsthat danger
which this measure was ' mber htao
gu as in-
intended
finitesimal ; but with grtheat. respell-
he begged to say that danceof a
danger was to be
estimated not so much beyiniP4l"te the assailing
s f hatthaauHt Hon. Member
ebbitaSersimYdb.—oefr
force the object threatened.
as by the inestimable
Now, in the present case' value of
threatened was the n-
ate objennte
greatness of
of importance to pro-
"trite' of the empire, and ,i,t danger,o
if it were only for the
pro-
tect this even from a lona"
happiness and contentmoetite was
tvh it would secure. It was
just for the preservation
a wise economy to cep° u 'what
of the people. -ger to be apprehended from that
Withrengard to France, he rejoiced to hear
that there was 11° eta circumstances. But, : supposing the
country under ewer of that country were to be wielded by
vast military
Id there be no danger then to this kingdom ?
one hand, w°eould in itself furnish just ground of caution.
That den
The ecgteor fw all government was to give protection to all
ob j, mons. in the kingdom, and this measure was to
classes o' Pe-
protection.
afford tbat ,
- ROEBUCK understood that the object of the Govern-
-slr.
I
present was to introduce a Bill upon the subject of
inent a
the Ini
'lithe He was himself extremely anxious that that
should be done, for the reasons which had been given by
the Hon. Member for Manchester. lie believed that it was
not desirable that there should be any division on t
subject at present, but that the Bill should be laid on the
table, with the understanding that the Government should
go to the country upon the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He could
understand that it was not the wish of the present Govern-
ment to go to the country upon one isolated measure, but
that they should propound what was the general tone and
team of their policy, Nov, ho oppas,lered the moat time-

---_-_----r---'-------
PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS.

-------"."1"---
......
(From the Votes and Proceedings of the 21 °use of Commons.)
MONDAY, MARCH 29.
MANcgEST.E.R AND SALFORD EDUCATION.
and Question proposed, " That the Select
Motion made,
Committee do co nsist of sixteen Members:'—Amendment
leave out " sixteen," and insert " seventeen,'
proposed, to
instead therea.,—Question put, " That the Select Committee
do consiit of sixteen Members." The House divided;—
fiIINORITY—AYES, 24.
Andy, Thomas HeYweod, James Thicknease, R. A.
Hindley, C.
BellJocib Thompson, Oolonel
HOW, r. s. Ilobhouee, T. B. Thomely, Thomai
Covran, Charles Milligan, Robert Wawn, J. T.
Duncan, George Milner, W.M.- Williams, John
Fans, John Nugent, Sir Percy Wyld, James
Nwart, William Seholelleld,,,WilliaM TELL7.IIB.
Greene, John Sullivan Michael Kershaw, James
Elastie, Alexander Tenneut, R. J. Clay, Sir W.

MAJORITY—NOES, 53.
Adderley, C. E. Dunne, Colonel Mulling's, J. B.
Arkwright, George Edwards, Henry Naas, Lord
Bagot, William Forbes, W. Napier, Joseph
Bankes, George Freestun, Colonel. Patten, J. W.
Barrington, Lord Gaskell, J. M. Scott, F.
Beresford, William Gibson, Thomas M. Somerton,iVisCOlMt
Booth, Sir K. G. Greene, Thomas Spooner, K.
Bouverie, E. P. Gwyn, Howel Stafford, Augusttui
Bridges, Sir B. Hamilton, G. A. Trollope, Sir J.
Burghley, Lord Henley, J. W. Vyse, B. H.
Cardwell, E. Hope, Sir J. Walpole, Spencer
Carew, W. 11. P. Howard,Whiteside, iames
Carter, J. B. Jolliffe, Sir W. 11. Wynn, H. W.
Chichester, Lord J. Knox, W. S. Yorke, E. T.
Christy, S. Langton, W. 11. P. Young, Sir jowl
Cobbold, John C. Lennox, Lord II G.
Cotton, W. S. Manners, Lord J. TELLIES.
Disraeli, B. March, Earl of Mackenzie W r
Duckworth, Sir J. Masterman, John Hamm, i.
hom a;

The Notts Guardian states that Mr. Roger
O'Connor, the nephew of Mr. Feargus O'Connor;' M.P., has
appealed to the English
, Chartists to raise funds for his "un-
fortunate relative. ' _ .

----
Tke Earl of Derby has accepted, says the Preston
Cla muck, the office of Presiden of the Roy
shire Agricultural Society,al North
and has promised to attend the
annual meeting at Preston, in September.
[ADvEunsExErrr.]—Tit EARL, or ALDl3Ol°l7°ll
Ann HOLLOWAY'S PILLB.—An astounding cure by this miraculouil
medicine, aster every other means had failed' see extraet from his
Lordship's letter, dated .. villa messing, Leghorn, Feb 21, 184 k
Professor Holloway—Sir :I beg to acquaint you that your pills have et.
fected a cure of a disorder in my liver au
eminent of the faculty, at home and all over
d '"ulheecownhitinellealntl, thhade mnosot
been able to effectwaters of Carlsbad or Ma-
rienbad.
; nay, not even tee
(Signed) " Amsoaotren."
cure any disease of the liver or stonlach•
These wonderful pills will
—Sold (also Holloway%
Ointment) at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, strand, SUM
ipi al gle,agbao yonuro ibaugh9o of 9.liPt4 .Ir9ruh