The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-28 00:00:00

EVENING,

render men who passed their whole time in pursuits of
trade and toil competent to control the representation of
a couno•y.—(Hear, hear.) And it was notorious that
large bodies of men were most easily influenced and be-
came often mere mobs. There was a question which
was of great importance, nod well worthy of considera-
tion on this subject—that of colonial representation.—
(Hear, hear.) It should be recollected that the fecilities
for communication were now greater between the mother
country and some of her colonies than used to exist be-
tween different parts of this country itself.—(Hear, hear.)
And without expressing any opinion upon these various
suggestions, he threw them out for the consideration of
their Lordships and of the country, as entitled to some
attention.—(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of DERBY said—My Lords, my Noble
Friend had no occasion to apologise for bringing under
your Lordships' consideration a subject of great import-
ance, and deriving additional importance from the great
respectability of the names attached to this petition.—
(Hear, hear.) The subject, my Lords, is perhaps one
which would more fitly ho mooted in the other House;
but, at the same time, my Noble Friend has done good
service in introducing it to the consideration of your
Lordships, of the other House, and of the country.—
(Hear.) Without expressing any positive opinion, I
concur in many of his observations as to the present con-
stitution of the House of Commons, and the effects pro-
duced by the changes consequent upon the introduction
of the Reform Bill. There has resulted from that mea-
sure, and from the abolition of the absolutely indefensi-
ble system of close boroughs, increased difficulty upon the
part of men not:previously known in the world, and not
possessing peculiar fluency of speech, or profes-
sing extreme views likely to recommend them to
large popular bodies—there has been greater difficulty
in the way of their getting access to the House of Com-
11100S.—(Hear, hear.) I agree also that there were of
old means by which science and the colonial interests
were indirectly represented in Parliament—(flear,
hear)—and means by which young men disposed co
avail themselves of the advantages of it seat in the
House of Commons, not for the purposes of amusement,
but of really entering into the service of the country,
might find admission into that assembly, and there
make for themselves a name and character which might
subsequently recommend them to the notice of larger
constituencies.—(Hear, hear.) And I agree that men
previously unknown, and of moderato and temperate
opinions, may find in these days more difficulty than is
desirable in becoming members of the Legislature.—
(Hear, hear.) I agree further, my Lords, in thinking
that it is not right or expedient that everything should
be referred to mere numbers.—(Hear.) In whatever way
you distribute the constituencies there must always be
a large minority to a certain extent unrepresented;
and, indeed, the absolute majority of the country
may not be represented, for the majority of
Members or seats may not represent the majority of
electors—there may be small majorities in some places
one way counterbalanced by large majorities in other
places the other way.—(Hear, hear.) But, my Lords,
I do not see in what way, under any system of popular
government, it is possible to escape that difficulty.—
(Hear, hear.) You must be regulated by the aggregate
of votes of the representatives of respective constituen-
cies. But I agree that, if it be necessary to make any
new distribution—to fill up vacancies arising from the
alterations which the times may require—it would be
unwise to look to the single question of numerical ma-
jority—(Hear, hear)—without taking into account the
question of property, and (as far as it can be considered
in legislation) the question of intelligence.—(Hear,
hear.) The numerical majority is that which commends
itself to the popular opinion as one which is most easily
ascertained. Next in difficulty is the question of pro-
perty. But the most difficult is the other—how to se-
cure such a Legislature as shall give a due balance
to intelligence, either in every constituency, or by
the system recommended by the petitioners, of
having Members who shall assume exclusively
to represent the intelligence of the country.
My Lords, I am far from saying that, though I think
there is difficulty in introducing that element to a great
extent, it would be desirable to introduce to a greater
degree the principle of representing intelligence and
education apart from mere numbers.—(Hear, hear.)
But I apprehend that there would be considerable diffi-
culty in bringing the principle into practical operation.
To a certain extent it is adopted by the constitution
of the House of Commons as it stands, in assigning
seats to the three Universities—of Oxford, Cambridge,
and Dublin; and if there were any other bodies suffi-
ciently numerous (for I think we cannot altogether over-
look the question of numbers in considering the popular
representation), and sufficiently separate and distinct—
as scientific bodies, for instance—l think such bodies
would have a claim for the consideration of the Govern-
ment in the reorganisation or amendment of our repre-
sentative system.—(Hear, hear.) On the part of the Go-
vernmeat I can assure my Noble Friend that the subject
has not escaped their attention, and on a recent occasion
I anxiously sought for the means of making an addi-
tion to tne constituency. There are, however, I repeat,
great practical difficulties in the way. For instance,
take the case of the Scotch universities. There are three
or four of them, some the very reverse of numerous, and
all of them together not Containing materials for a very
large constituency (supposing we considered only the
graduates), and if we grouped them together for the pur-
pose of representation, the smaller ones might not, per-
haps, consider it a boon, for they might apprehend that
the general interests of science might be overborne by the
particular interests of the larger universities, or their
preponderating opinions on political or other subjects.
Then, again,' my Lords, there are the inns of court,
bodies ever capable of furnishing a most respectable and
valuable constituency—(Hear, hear)—and probably of
returning to Parliament a very useful Member. It
might be highly honourable to a lawyer to be returned
by these societies rather than by some popular constitu-
ency, receiving his election as a mark of approval on the
part of those belonging to his own profession, and
sitting peculiarly as the representative of the law.
But, my Lords, I must say, that, of all classes,
those who find the least difficulty in obtaining seats in
the House of Commons are thealawyers.—(lloar, and a
laugh.) The tendency seems really to be to that which
has been found in other countries productive of mischief
—too great an infusion of professional men in the repee.
sentation of the people.—(llear, hear.) For these gene
tlemen, in "going circuit," have opportunities of making
themselves known—bringing themselves
acquiring
before the pub-
lic, and forming acquaintances, and
cen c auence. Still, my Lords, Ido not say that the ions of
court would not form a constituency entitled to great
consideration. With respect to learned
so-
cieties I am afraid there would
be m
or e or sitifi
difficulty.
Be-
fore noticing them I moat at
oats
suggestion
I perceive has been made of erecting
of a
military
constituency._
or naval officers into a
Parliamentary co
ld never do
(Hear, and a laugh.)
it
Service Club.—(Laughter.)
have a
member for " The United
and I
tscientific earned Now, my Lords, as -o se
difficulty i
so-
cieties, there would bo
whichn drawg
to arrange
the line between them so asof them
' led to representation
should be deemed entitled
e them to eth
representation, and there
would be difficulty in gretlP.lrt-g,
my
Lordsg I er for that
purpose.—(Hear, hear.) 11- am not sure
' tho political element into their
that the introduction of
ly to conduce to their harmony.
—(Hear, would be like cases, for armony.
hear.) Take the
Surgeons. instance,lt would
of the
Colleges of Physicians
and
gember, and if would be itn-
possible to give to each they both to-
the result would be, I fear,
gether returned one, .
ns between them. to cause
ern. And
jealousies and dissensions
doubt whether '
it would as to
be for
each particular body,
the power of returnin
their benefit to have
nr hear)—and whether g a Member
of Parliament—(Hear' •
for the infusion of political feeling thus
not be the worse
impossible to give each of these se.
amused. It would be
would be difficult to draw -
cieties a Member;
it
of course it would be the line
practically im-
possible to combine
ine a Parliamentar One
body for
the purpose of 0
(LT this purpose the do constituency,
So-
uniting together
of Society, and the Statisticalrahical
ciety, and the BoY,a____e.y.
, i t and all the restof Society,
and the Botanical ols' them.—(A
Moreover, my Lords, although these societies'
laugh.)
constitution learned or scientific •
bodies, they
tom in their
who have .
many persons no special claims
comprise nu" or learning—(Hear, to
for science hear)_
a character
deeming it an honour to become members
'—
rank deein come members
men of additional
if the inducement were held out
of them; and
embers of a Parliamentary constituency,
of becoming
inof members for the purpose
of
the introduction
might
ultimately endanger the thus ac-
previous
quiring T te° 90cie t i e s . —(Hear, hear.) The whole toes-
objects of t
as to these institutions is embarrassed y
lion, theiree difficulties.—(flear, hear.) Then, my Lords, b-
great ethu
of colonial representation; it. as to
the subject
greatundoub-
tedly importance and also of difficult
tedly of
f the obect could be • Y.—(Hear,
Bat t attained—more par-
ticularlyinea )
• ince the alteration of 1833, and
s of indirect
uent
is
abolitional worthy of the consideration of the Go
is one well worthy
hear.) If by -
vernmenn—
could be devised as should fairly secure the
system .
of differ
ntation ent interests, and brin
represe
1. e. t the
.3__ lam , questions affecting the materialg,
before 1 ei
a political welfare of the colonies, a great ad-
social, an
would no doubt be '
go .. . gained.—(hear, hear.) It
vsnts
would create an additional tie between the mother coun-
d the colonies—Hear
try secure the advan-
tages an •
now inadequately attained by the exertions of
cages
amateur colonial legislators, who are not always most
discreet,
et even if the most zealous, advocates of the colo-
niesin which they
~...
attach
themselves.—(Hear, and a
laugh
.) There woud, however, be considerable diffi-
culty out) the 1
in carrying p an—difficulty as to the mode
;n which the returns should be made, and the manner
i'n which the members should represent separate or Con-
current colonial interests.—(Hear, hear.) To have a
member from each colony would of course be practically
impressible, and to arrange the grouping of the coloured
constituencies would be necessarily a matter of great
delicay.—(Hear, hoar.) My Lords, I cannot Upon
these points express any positive opinion.
I con
in a great portion of the observations of es ..... cur
?rind. And if I could see my way in
Noble
alterations hereafter made in our yin
any
representative
system, or any additions to be made to our constie
tuencies—if I could see my way to the introduction,
in es education greater degree, of the element of reduction,
in-
telligence,j °
I should think the b and
deem it to be—well entitled to th object—difficult
as I
gislature.—(H ear.) And 1:e attention of the
certainlyLe-
desirable to to do somethino. which
• feel that it may be
r'
prevailing tendency to throw innay neutralise the
the most intelligent or power the hands of not I
I am
afraid educated classes, but the most nu-
merous—andmisguided portion of th in many cases the most easily
e community. My Lords, I re-
peat,
I did not rise to express any positive opinions
even on my own part, still
less to express the opinions 1
of my colleagues; and,
perhaps, I have already gone fur-
ther than I h
oug t, bat I only desired to convey my
sense of the importance of the subject.—(Hear.) My 1
Noble Friend has not introduced
any proposition on
this occasion to your Lordships, and, therefore, I can
only say that the subject is one which will have the
best attention of the Government; and that 011 ikfuture