The Sun.
London, England, 1864-12-03 00:00:00

Mr. Layard and his Constituents,

Last night Mr Layard addressed his constituents
at the Bridge-house Hotel, Southwark. The large
room in which the meeting was held was scarcely
more than half full when the proceedings com•
menced, but it became densely crowded long before
their conclusion.

Mr NEWMAN, on being voted to the chair, ex•
pressed his opinion that from the decorous and be.
coming way in which the working people of Lanca-
shire had behaved under extremely trying circum-
stances it was evident that the time had come for
an enlargement of the franchise, and, recollecting
Mr Gladstone's speech on the subject of Reform
during the last Session, he thought that they might
proclaim that Mr Gladstone was the coming Pre.
mier of this country. (Cheers.)
Mr LAYARD then presented himself to the meet.
ing, and was received with loud cheers. He said
he hoped that all present were his constituents, or,
if not, that the time was not far distant when they
would become so. (Hear, hear.) Ha was there
that evening to remind them that another year in
their political and natural life had elapsed ; and this
occasion reminded him of a ceremony which he ob-
served in Ir.dia, where, at an entertainment given

-
him by a Rajah, he noticed that at regular intervals

a person entered the apartment and uttered some-
thing in a load voice. His host explained that it
was an old custom for a person to come in and pro•

claim :at stated interval; that an hour had passed

away, and that he hoped the Rajah had made good
use of the time which had passed, and would also

make use of the time which was to come. (Laugh-
ter.) With respect to local matters, it was natu-
rally his duty to act as his constituents wished;
but on accepting office they gave him a sort of
tude not to give so much attention as he otherwise
might to all the smaller• questions of the borough.
lie was fortunate in having such a colleague as Mr

Locke, than whom no metropolitan member de-
voted himself more thoroughly and conscientiously

to the discharge of his local duties. (Cheers.) He
was glad to see Southwark partaking in the gene-
ral prosperity, and having new streets and lines of

communication opened ; but these marks of pro-
sperity gave rise to the question, what was
to be done with that large class of work-
ing men who were ejected from their dwellings,

and for whom no provision was made in conse-
quence of being deprived of their dwellings.
(Cheers.) When he last met his constituents he told
them that that question had not escaped his atten-
tion, and he must say now that he really saw no

means of meeting the difficulty, except by the work-
ing men forming committees among themselves for
discussing the matter, and then proposing some
practical remedy. He did not see why the co.
operative system, which had led to so much im-
provement in the manufacturing towns of this

country, should not be brought to operate in this
matter. (Hear, hear.) Nothing could be much worse

than the habitations of the working men in that
borough. If any means could be hit on for improve
ing them an inestimable benefit would be conferred
on the working classes. The model lodging houses

were merely experiments, showing the way in
which the thing might be done, but it remained

for the working classes to perfect the experiment
and to carry it out to a successful result. (Hear,
hear.) He next adverted to the question of St.

Thomas's Hospital, and said that Southwark ough
to be eternally grateful to Dr. Rendle on accoun
of the hospital not being removed to a great dis
tance from the Borough. (Applause.) Turning nex
to political questions, he remarked that though i
was the custom to denounce speeches on foreign
politics, he was afraid he must fall into the general
ruck and talk a good deal about them. He wished
first of all to say a few words on the Danish quesa
tion— but let them not suppose that he was going
to re-open that myiterious matter, of which they
must have heard quite enough already. Still, on
reading the speeches delivered dialing the Recess,
he scarcely found ono that did not touch on that
unhappy question, and therefore he desired to Bay
a few words respecting it. There was no name
more connected with civil and religious liberty
than that of Earl Russell, and it was, therefore,
very hard that things which were not true in re-
ference to the conduct of the Danish ques-
tion should, by constant repetition, become to be
accepted as true. If they had done him the honour
of reading the speech which he had delivered in the
House of Commons during the debate on the Danish '
question they would probably be of opinion that he
disposed pretty completely of the accusations against
Earl Russell. That debate went by the name of the
Danish debate, but the object of it was not to do
either good or harm to Denmark, but simply to turn
Lord Palmerston out of office. (Hear.) In love and
war everything was said to be fair, he therefore
supposed that in a great Parliamentary straggle the
same might be alleged, and therefore one cannot
complain of the misrepresentations which were made
use of to damage the character of an opponent.
Earlßussc.ll was accused of having used the language
of intimidation, bat he (Slr Layard) proved by the
despatches there was not a single phrase which
might bear the character of intimidation that had
not been equally used by France and Russia. Earl
Russell always consulted with those Governments,
and therefore the accusation that it was the noble
earl that used the language of intimidation was false
and fell to the ground. He was confident that pos.
tcrity would do justice to Earl Russell, and likewise
to Lord Palmerston. It had been said that the con-
duct of the Government had lowered the prestige of
England, but that he did not believe; for the Go-
vernment only adhered to engagements, and sought
to carry out a treaty which,whether right or wrong,
had been entered into. (Hear.) As soon as England
found that other parties to the treaty were not pre-
pared to carry out its terms then she desisted, and
gave Denmark to understand that nothing more
could be done in her behalf. (Hoar.) There was
another topicwhich had been equally subject to mils.
representation—that of China. Lord Palmerston had
been accused of desiring to make China another India,
and of wishing to go to war with that country, the
population of which was 300.000,000, for the purpose
of taking possession of it. It was always difficult
to disprove a mere assertion, but all he could say
was, no such intention ever crested. He had been
blamed for speaking in the House of Commons in
favour of the China policy of the Government, be.
cause some years previously ho had voted against
Lord Palmerston on the subject of China. But
there was no analogy between the two cases, and.
Lis vote was really given in support of the -flew
which ho formerly advocated, and whi..fa he firmly
believed had been carried out by Lord Palmerston's
Government—namely, to seattle matters peaceably
and by treaty, instead of by cannon ;shot and by
battle. (Applausa.) This country had now complete
peace with the Chinese Government, and instead of
England now going to war on account of a quarrel
between some governor and a British consul, these
matters were now settled at Pekin, and brought to
proper conclusion. That was the way the Eng-
lish Government now dealt with China, and he
thought it would be most wicked for a civilised
country to take advantage of a nation semi-civilised.
(Hear, hear.) The English had been defending in
China the treaty ports, which under a treaty were
open to a foreign trade generally. In a few years
an enormous trade had sprung up, but at the same
time a rebellion of a formidable character—that of
the Taepings—broke out, and had its principal seat
near the city of Shanghai. The Taepings threat-
ened to attack and destroy that settlement, foe they
wore mere bands of robbers, had no system of ad-
ministration, and went about devastating every-
thing within their reach. What, then, was to be
done ? Either Shanghai must be abandoned, and
the loss to English trade would have been most
serious, or England must send troops against
the Taepings, or enable the Chinese to
fight the Taepings themselves. England adopted
the latter course, and that policy had been most
successful. Shanghai was again a free port.
When the Taepinga took possession of it they
reduced that beautiful city to ruins, and no sooner
had the Taepings left that place than the city was
again becoming populous. Ho believed the policy
pursued was a good policy, and though the loaders
of party attacked them they never announced any
alternative policy. The only alternative policy was
that brought forward afterwards by Mr Cobden,

from whom anything that dropped was worth
tening to. (Cheers.) He was a man of great
ability, and took an original view of the subjects
on which he treated, but anything more impracti.
cable or more likely to lead to general war than his
plan could not be conceived. It was that the Eng.

:ish should withdraw from Pekin and China and

,ake possession of three or four islands along the

coast. That would have been a declaration of war

against China, and if the English had a right to
take those islands, France and Russia would have

had an equal right to take ours. Such a course of

proceeding must have created general confusion.

The only alternative policy was that which the
British Government actually pursued. By the re-
turns of the Board of Trade for 1862 and 1863 it

appeared that the total estimated value of the
foreign trade in China amounted to £104,208,892,
of which trade a portion amounting to no less than
£41,936,797 was carried on in Shanghai, and he
believed that the English trade with China was in
the course of gradual development, and would still

become greater. (Hear, hear.) Now, with respect
to Japan, the Government had been denounced for
making a wanton attack upon the town of Kago-

sima, and some people were always to 3 ready to

accept as facts accusations against the British

officers. Now, he was one of those who did not
believe that the British officers would wantonly

sacrifice the lives of any population. (" Hear,

hear," and a cry of "Oh !") He would go further,

and say that no Englishman would recklessly sacriM
fine the lives of human beings. (Cheers.) And it

was afterwards proved that these accusations against
British officers at Kagosima were unfounded, (Hear,
hear.) True, a great part of the town was burnt
down, but there was the evidence of Satsuma that

ho whole population was previously removed. The

town rose again speedily, for the houses, instead of

being built of lath and plaster, were only built of
lath and paper. (Hear, and a laugh.) Still, there

was no doubt that the destruction of the place was

an unfortunate event, and no one regretted it more
than he did. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the

Japanese, the British Government had no other wish
than to cultivate the most friendly relations with

;hem, conferring benefits on Japan, while England

at the same time derived advantage from extended
trade. Difficulties might arise, not so much from
the Government of Japan, but from some sort of
independent Daimio taking on himself to erect a

number of batteries and block up the entrance to the
Inland Sea. If this had been submitted to it would

have been an encouragement to other Daimios, and
perhaps to the Japanese Government, to have acted
in the same way, and would have led to a serious

state of things, and perhaps to war. Consequently,
England, France, Holland, and the United States
determined to:destroy those batteries ; and it ap-
peared that the Japanese were a most singular
people, for when, after the destruction of the bats.

- -
teries, men were sent from the fleet to remove the

guns, Prince Nagato sent a number of men to assist
in removing them, and gave presents of fruit and
flowers to the crews of the ships which had been
engaged in knocking the batteries about his ears•
(Laughter.) Admiral Kuper during that transac-
tion forbade any attack on the city, and not a single
house was destroyed. (Cheers.) The result was
remarkable. Probably the Japanese Government

waited to see the result. The silk trade of Yoko,

hams had been excluded from the upper harbour;

where the British merchants resided, but in 1861.
1862 it amounted to 2,593 bales, in 1862.1863 to
5,283 bales, and in 18.63,1864 to 5,436 bales ; but

during the silk season in 1864 it amounted to only
706 bales. But after the affair at Nagato, when
the trade was opened, 3,000 bales were immediately
sent. (Hear, hear.) He regretted the existence of a
state of war, and he did not think that any one
would wantonly enter upon it, but still there were
occasions on which war could not be entirely pre•
vented, (Hear.) With respect to European politics
he had little to say. He had seen Italy, and was
aware of the marvellous progress made in that coun-
try, and of the moderation, good sense, and abnega.
tion shown by the Italian Parliament under difficult
circumstances. (Cheers.) He looked with great

pride on that the only Parliament on the Continent
of Europe similar to the British Parliament, and
upon a country where the people enjoyed liberty of
speech, and where, he trusted, the liberty of the
people would be guarded and carried out. Amid
the general peace which now prevailed there was
one black spot, and that was in America ; and there
was no one, whatever his opinions might be with
reference to the dispute, but devoutly prayed that
the war might cease. (Cheers.) He stated this be,
cause he regretted to say that there were persons in
this country who wished it to be believed that Eng-
lish sympathies were not with the misfortunes of
the American people, but were in favour of the war
and its being carried on to extermination. He did
not believe that that was the feeling of any large
body of Englishmen. (Cheers.) He believed that
Englishmen wished to see an end to this horrible
warfare, than which history did not record anything
more terrible. The general state of peace in other
parts of the world had led to an extreme develops
ment of British resources, and particularly of com-
mercial intercourse with the civilised globe, The
wealth and prosperity of this country during the last
few years had made enormous progress, springing out
of the principles of free trade. One of the first
foreign Powers to reduce duties on imports and
exports was Turkey, and no country had more
readily responded to the invitation to engage in
free trade than Turkey. The Government of that
country had been accused of a want of toleration,
but he believed the Government of that country to
be eminently tolerant as compared with other Go.
vernments in Europe. He trusted that the Turkish
Government would continue in that path of wisdom,
and be tolerant to all sects, and particularly to the
Christians, who formed so largo a portion of the
population of Turkey. (A cry of "Anything about
Poland ?" followed by cheers.) The increase of
this country's commercial relations with Europe,
and the increase of its commercial prosperity, were
no doubt due to the great free-trade movement, and
ho felt that sueh men as Cobden, Bright, and Chas.
Villiers were entitled to all the credit owing to
those who conferred a great benefit on their -.0,11.
try. Some persons had complained th at there had
been almost a standstill in the
extension of free
trade on the continent for ;ale time; and that the
Government did not, enter into treaties with other
Powers simil yd. to the Treaty with France ; but the
fact w". 46 that the advantage of adopting a system
"ei commercial freedom was not so well understood
on the continent as in this country. The Emperor
of the French perceived it, and he bestowed great
benefits on this country by the courage he displayed
by entering into the Treaty with England. With
reference to free trade the English Government
thought that policy good in itself, and were willing
to give all the advantages it had obtained from
France to other countries, bat France was in a dife
ferent position, and as soon as she concluded a treaty
With England she went to Italy and maid,
"Make a treaty with me, and I will give you so
and so." However, every treaty which France made
was to the advantage of this country, for as
soon as concessions were made to France by other
Powers this country had a right to claim the same
from them. Consequently England had obtained
similar advantages, and had now a treaty with Italy
like the treaty between France and Italy, and
would soon have a treaty with Prussia, the Z)11.
verein States, and with Switzerland. So little by
little the free trade system would be extended over
Europe. There was a movement taking place even
emanating from the action of commer.
cit Austria,iralmenthere.
Ile did not like to detain the
meeting by reading a most extraordinary libt of
figures ho had in his poB6Ctision and which afforded
the most convincing proof of the success of the free
trade system. The result of our commercial inter-
course with Europe was highly satisfactory. It led
to the wealth and prosperity of the country, and to
a great improvement in the condition of the people.
This had, no doubt, given rise tea great desire for
peace. That might be a very creditable feeling,
eit maluth4
onfotthihae
ecoaainrtireyd
the
mfaarr,efiw)ratahaetgenrlFpattaer.
htluiet
tion held out for other countries. If the time had
come for the lamb to lie down with the lion,then,in.
ee,
England might do without
fleets or armies,
and d
without incurring the expense to maintain
d
those armies, That time however had not yet

arrived. States merely represented the aggregate
passions of men, and so long as men were wicked

and unjust so long also would there be found Go-

vernments who were unjust. During the last few
months nations were seen combined together to
despoil the weak, and the same might happen again.
To prevent this state of things the balance of
power was devised. Some persons spoke of that
doctrine as exploded, but that was not a statesman
like way of treating the question. The balance of
power was one of the wisest things ever devised by

statesmen, and it meant that the different States of

Europe,when they saw one nation sufficiently strong
to despoil another, and attempting to do so, should
combine together to prevent that unjust attack. Sir
James Mackintosh, in one of his speeches, said—
The system of preserving some equilibrium of power—of
preventing any State from becoming too great for her neigh-
bours, is a system purely defensive, and directed towards the
object of universal preservation. It is a system which pro-
vides for the security of all States by balancing the force
and opposing the interests of great ones. The independence
of nations is the end, the balance of power is only the means
Nations powerful enough to defend themselves may subsist
securely in most tolerable conditions of society; but States
too small to be safe by their strength can exist only where
they aie guarded by the equilibrium of force, and the vigi-
lance which watches over its preservation. The system of
the balance of power is that system of which indeed great
empires were the guardians, but of which the perfect action
was indicated by the security of feebler commonwealths.
Under this system no great violation of national independ-
ence had occurred from the first civilisation of the European
States till the partition of Poland. The safety of the feeblest
States, under the authority of justice, was so great that there
seemed little exaggeration in calling such a society the
" commonwealth" of Europe. Principles which stood in
the stead of laws and magistrates provided for the security
of defenceless communities as perfectly as the safety of the
humblest individual is maintained in a well ordered com-
monwealth. Europe can no longer be called a common-
wealth when her members have no safety but in their
strength.

Those sentences were uttered in 1815, when the
smaller States of Europe were being destroyed and
handed over to other stronger States, and what Sir

James Mackintosh said was perfectly true, as
every student of history knew. They were
proud in the present day, and fancied that

greater liberty existed, and that there was
greater progress in human thought than ever be-

fore ; but he doubted whether human thought was
now more developed than between the 14th and
15th centuries. Then took place the Reformation,

,he invention of printing, and a great advance in

civilisation ; and almost always were they indebted
to the smaller States for that progress. The smaller

States supported Luther, and encouraged great in-
ventions in those days, but when the smaller States

succumbed then liberty perished, though this
country, being removed from the Continent, was
able to preserve its liberty. (Hear.) This led him

_ .
:o say a word or two about nonintervention. I

had been said that the debate of last session
altered the foreign relations of this country, but he
did not believe a word of that. What was non •
intervention ? If it meant abstaining from inter.
fering in other people's affairs, from forcing on
other people princes or laws they do not want, or
inconvenient dynastic alliances, then, he said, let
that principle be laid down as the foundation of
foreign policy. (Cheers.) Nor did he believe that
any statesman, Conservative or Liberal, would ven-
ture, in spite of public opinion, to act otherwise.
He did not believe that any statesman now would
enter again into those dynastic alliances, or impose,
as this country did, certain laws and Princes on
France, Such a thing was impossible. (Hear, hear.)
But if by non-intervention was meant holding per-
fectly aloof and abstaining from mediation when
mediation might adjust disputes, he believed that
the people of England did not wish for such non-
intervention, which would be most dangerous to
this country. (Hear.) Still, this right of interven-
tion must be exercised with caution, and with a due
consideration both to other people and to this
country. When people can be by mediation pre•
vented from carrying on terrible wars, then it was
the duty of the country to exert that mediation
when it was asked for, and when it was acceptable to
both parties. During the debate of last session the
opponents of the Government stated that there was
a great Conservative reaction in this country ; but
they found out their mistake when the division took
place,for there was a great majority of Scotch, Enge
lish, and Welsh representatives. So that this Con.
servativo reaction only existed in the imagination of
some of the Conservatives. The real question was
whether this country was not bound to act up to her
treaty engagements, and if it could have found out
any means to prevent the war it would have done
good service to D,nmark. The next question was
whether the British Government were right in en-
deavouring to prevent the dismemberment of Den-
mark. He said they were, because Denmark was a
free country, and had great influence on the politics
of Europe. Bat if ho were asked whether the Go-
vernment were bound to go to war for Denmark, he
replied in the negative. The hon. gentleman pro.
ceeded to say that it was the parties who accused Go-
vernment of wishing to go to war that tried to force
them to do so. It was not the Government that
were warlike, for the Government were obliged to
a certain extent to restrain the people, not only on
the Danish but the Polish question ; and though he
deeply:sympathised with the feeling for the Poles
and the Danes, still he maintained that it was the
duty of the Government not to be carried away by
such sympathy. He thought the Government
deserved credit for preserving the country fromwar
but at the same time he believed that every Enge
lishman, whether a nobleman or a working man,
was equally determined that England shettld pree
serve her position in the council of nations as hero-
tofore. (Cheers.) Turning from foroign politics
to home subjects, he observed that some years ago
the most eloquent tad.vooates of free trade declared
that if the principle of free trade were
accepted and the markets of tiogland were
thrown open to the world, political discontent
would cease. He ventured to say that that pro-
phecy had become true, and the very fact of the
great wealth and prosperity of this land had caused
forgetfulness to a certain extent of home politics.
He, t,owever, repeated what he had said on forma;
occasions—that, so far from thepretsoentht
eC:';effadecittiqtnhaotf
the country being an argument
political liberty w'r. sufficiently extended and that
no more rer'erm was needed, he contended that it
was iite strongest argument in favour of progres-
sive reform. (Loud cheers.) The very fact that
the working men were daily increasing in intellie
gence, wealth, and comfort was a proof that they
were entitled to the suffrage, and the position of the
working men ought to be recognised by extending
to them the suffrage-. (Loud cheers.) But let them
not throw on the Government the blame of not
extending the suffrage to them, The present Par-
liament was u reactionary Parliament heaeond all
previous Parliaments, Some time ago measures of
civil reform and relilous toleration were carried by
a small majority, but now they were defeated by
majorities. The House of Commons, however, had
only another year to live, and on the electors de-
pended what should be the character of the next
House, and if they wanted the extension of the
suffrage they must give their pledge to the candi-
date on the huetings. (Loud cheers.) If his
constitttents could address a reproach to him that
he had voted against those measures he had always
advocated, then let them turn their backs on
him ; but he declared that no pledge he
had given had not been carried out. After
some further remarks he concluded by express.
ing his conviction that when the appeal was
again made to the people the Government would
receive the nation% support, fur ho was convinced
the people of this nation would not wish to deprive
of power those who had done so much for the pros
sperity of the country :and for the happiness and
comfort of the people. The hen. member then sat
down amid loud cheers,
Mr FIELD asked Mr Layard why he was not pre.'
sent in the House of Commons when the motion
(or the abolition of flogging in the army and navy
was brought on ?
A working man referred to Mr Peabody's gift
for the poor of London, and wished to know whether
the hon, member could tell him where the money
was, and why it had not been made use of.
Mr LAYARD said it was perfectly true he was
absent from the vote on the question of flogging in
the army and navy, but the opinions he expressed
when elected he still maintained. The question of