The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-28 00:00:00

IMPERI

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 27.
Tho LORD CHANCELLOR took his soat on the Wool-
sack at Five o'clock.

PETITIONS.
The Duko of RICHMOND presented a petition from
Portsmouth in favour of the enfranchisement of copy-
holds; one from Sussex against the present system of
licensing beer-houses; and several others against the
Maynooth grant.
The Earl of RODEN presented several petitions from
Ireland agains tthe Maynooth grant; also praying for
the inspection of nunneries.
MR. MATHER'S CASE.
In answer to a question from Earl FITZ WILLIAM,
The Earl of MALMESBURRY said that this case
had at last, after great exertions and anxiety on the part
of Mr. Scarlett, our charge :d'affaires at Florence, been
brought to a termination, and had resulted in Mr. Mather
having obtained an amount of pecuniary damages equi-
valent, according to Mr. Scarlett's opinion, to those
which ho would have received in an English court of
justice had the action been brought. All feeling of
nationality, he might add, had been disclaimed on the
part of the Austrian officer as prompting him to the un-
justifiable act of which he had been guilty.
WELSH WITNESSES.'
The Earl of POWIS put aquestion to the Lord Chan-
cellor, respecting the trial of John Joseph Corby at the
Monmouthshire assizes, whether it wore true that the
Learned Judge stated to a witness, who desired to speak
Welsh, that if she did not answer in English, she would
not have her expenses.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that it was per-
fectly true that the •Learned Judge of assiz3 had ad-
dressed such a remark to the witness in question. It was
often found that Welsh witnesses who could speak Eng-
lish refused to be examined, except in Welsh, and the
threat of not being allowed their expenses was the only
means of making them speak English.—(Hear, hear.)
In this case the Learned Judge had been informed that
the witness, who was a respectable farmer's wife,
could speak English fluently, and in answer to all re-
quests to her to speak English, she only answered that
she would be examined in Welsh. The Learned Judge
certainly did make to her the statement which was attri-
buted to him, but at the end of the cause he ordered her
expenses to be allowed her, and she received them.
Lord CAMPBELL protested that any Welsh witness,
who could speak English, could insist upon being exa-
mined in Welsh. He also bore his testimony to the truth
of the remark of the Noble and Learned Lord on the
Woolsack, that the only way of suddenly conferring the
faculty of speaking English fluently on Welsh witnesses
was to threaten them not to allow their expenses.
After a few words from Lord DYNEVOR the subject
dropped.

COMMON LAW PROCEDURE BILL.
Lord TRURO rose to move the third reading of this
Bill, which he described as having arisen out of the re-
port of a Commission which had inquired into the whole
subject of common law procedure in this country. After
the Learned Judges had communicated their opinion upon
it, the Bill was referred to a Select Committee, when
most of the suggestions of the Learned Judges were
adopted. He did not expect that the Bill was perfect in
all its parts, but he believed it to be scarcely possible to
frame a measure better adapted to meet the evils com-
plained of. There was a power conferred on the judges
of effecting any improvement in the law they might
think necessary, subject to the approbation of Parlia-
ment. Ile could not move the third reading without
paying his tribute of respect and thanks to the Commis-
sioners for having conferred such an advantage on the
country as the measure before them. To the able indi-
vidual who drew up.the Bill the Treasury proposed to
pay him a fee of 50 'guineas; but it was subsequently
considered that he was entitled to at least 200 guineas.
He had prepared a clause for the more effectual execu-
tion of judgments in cases where the property or person
be removed from the place in which the Court had juris-
diction from whence such judgments were issued.
Lord DENMAN was heppy to express his high ap-
proval of the Bill, which he believed would effect a
most valuable improvement in the law. He thought that
the Commissioners were deserving of their highest com-
mendations for the great attention they had given to the
subject. The country was also deeply indebted to tho
Committee of their Lordships' House for the many im-
provements they had made in the Bill. It was of the
highest importance that the measure should pass into a
law without, if possible, a delay of a single week. It
was his intention to introduce an amendment into that
part of the Bill having reference to the wrongful conver-
sion of property, by the addition of these words, viz.,
" and wrongfully deprived him of the benefit and use of
his own goods." It was necessary, be thought, to in-
troduce these words, as the law respecting the wrongful
conversion of property was not sufficiently defined. He
also proposed to introduce an amendment in reference
to that part of the Bill which related to ejectment.
Lord CAMPBELL expressed his great satisfaction in
seeing the Noble and Learned Lord in his place that
evening. He (Lord Campbell) concurred with him in
thinking the measure a most valuable one, and would
prove a vast improvement in the law. He would sup-
port the first amendment of the Noble and Learned
Lord, but in reference to cases of ejectment, he thought
that the plaintiff should be required to deliver in a
written statement of his claim, and the defendant his
answer to it.
The Earl of WICKLOW thought that so valuable a
measure ought to be extended to Ireland.
The Earl of CARLISLE believed there was a law
passed two sessions ago for Ireland, in which many
of the improvements in the present measure were
anticipated.
Lord CRANWORTH said it would be totally im-
possible to frame a Bill of this kind in its integrity
for application both to England and Ireland.
There would of necessity be so many exceptions to
introduce that such a measure could not well be framed
to meet the cases of both countries; besides there
should be a consultation with the Irish
judges. He thought that the wisest course for them to
take would be in the first instance to confine it to Eng-
land; and then if it were found to work admirably
well, it would be easy to frame a measure for Ireland
upon the same principles. In the meantime Ireland
might say—
" Nov= experimentum incorpore vili."—(A laugh.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR agreed. in the opinion
that it would not be possible to apply this Bill to Ire-
land. If, however, the proposed change be found to
work well for this country a similar change might be
made in Ireland,
The Bill was then read a third time.
The clause proposed by Lord Truro was then added
to the Bill; and the amendments which were moved by
Lord Denman were severally agreed to.
The Bill was then passed.
On the motion of Lord COLCHESTER, the Regis-
trationand Marriages Bill was read a
secondonh
t time.
Births,motion
for
Deaths,
referring the Enfranchisement of
Copyholds Bill to a Select Committee,
Lord CAMPBELL said, however desirable the mea-
sure might be, he was afraid that it would not pass
through Parliament that session, and therefore he
thought it unnecessary to go into the details.
The LORD CHANCELLOR referred to the Masters
in Chancery Abolition Eel, and another important law
measure, which had been well considered by a Select
Committee within the space of four hours.
CAMPBELL said the cases of the two Bills and
were very different; for, in respect to
the Lfoorrrde
former, they etheayewere the Bills of the Noble and Learned
Lord on the woolsack; but, in the case of the present
measure, he believed that the Noble and Learned Lord
was rather opposed to it.
The Bill was then referred to a Select Committee.
On the motion of the Bishop of OXFORD, the Com-
mittee upon the School Sites Acts' Extension Bill was
postponed until the Bth of June, in order to afford time
for remedying those objectionable parts of the Bill to
which the Lord Chancellor had pointed his attention.
The Property of Lunatics Bill passed through Com-
mittee.
The Stamp Duties (Ireland) Bill also passed through
Committee.
REFORM OF THE COURTS OF CHANCERY-
The reports on the Masters in Chancery Abolition
Bill and the Equity Jurisdiction Bill were reesived.
PROPERTY TAX CONTINUANCE BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
The Turnpike Reads (Ireland) Bill passed through
Committee.
REPRESENTATION OF LEARNING-
Lion of the Houasbegoef WCboimebmmonays be
eromviasdioe
members of thell
that in any learnedA tR 0 W
professionsß . Y p es e nat en dd
oathpeertsi,tivonrayfrionmg The Earl ochF
for the distinct and separate representation cre the edu-
cated intelligence of the country. The Noble Lord said
the petition was signed by such men as Brodie, Bre'vs.
ter, Murchison, Peacock, and others of similar character,
and would, he thought, be deemed worth of attenotio the
subjectln d eed,
of attentiontbe
representationha d bee nof o
of
lateth
the
muche directed
atry
hbaup
but
opinionin fav rvini
may
ye constitu-
tion smt iat
made
country.
many would think it best to have no change at all;
strongly
the current of oular feeling was running very eis
eorfet to merebe followednum bera
ancient nor
with unfortunate results.—(Hear.) Neither an
modern experience encouraged this country to adopt 1.,
For instance, what: had been the effect of
' the expert -
effect of
meat in a neighbouring country? Tho firsetn
universal suffrage had been the establishment of '"
but
independent bodies or powers of CqUil The Presi-
antagonistic in their principles of
"ticialas.soon as their
dent and the Legislative Assembly bed, into opposi-
tion,powers were brought into exercise, be attended
subversion of ono of
oat
ittb ewsotbaloadard. If this
and the next result was the e life, liberty,
them, and the extinction of all security f"
This ought to be
property, or opinion.—(User, hear.) the principle of
enough to show the perilous nature of Rome led to the
same conclusion. In its wiser times,
nacre numbers, The history of ancient
nd when in later
times
presented rather than numbers, 'and
resulted, and
numbers merely were represented, anarchy
right could a
ultimately despotism. Moreover, by what
s the mere tyranny
classes. were re-
majority control a minority?
Itufwathe whole object of
of the siren "over the weak.
by the representation
this object could only be attained
by some system under
rather of classes than numbers—by
opinions more than
which members should not representstem
of representing
government was to protect thel3we'ay against the strong;
majorities. Under the
merely
popular support, and
ex-
treme Opinions in order to obtain
that.
moderate opinions
moderate men had no chance, so
they ought to c▪
-. , hear.)
were not represented as
remedy these evils, and it
It was no doubt difficult to
ceen.borou h
majorities of eunirbeearesa,tdidatcs professed
was impossible to return to the r •
the object
system.
fallacy. Education could not
itioners. It was
ap-
peared to be that suggested
progress of education would do
sometimes said that the f from the ,
away with the evil resulting rrepresentation of
The only practicable means
boyf athttempheitng.
numbers. But this was a
be expected "et to proceed to anon Eua extent as to