The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-08 00:00:00

THE SIIN,, LONDON, TUESDAY -EVENING, JUNE 8

the weight attaching to his name in the senate of his coma- tuents. He appealed from Philip in Buckinghamshire to
try, that if we did not take care we should bring represen- Philip in that House.—(A laugh.) But he passed on to
tative government itself into disrepute, and that it would , ask, where were thes3 men to be found for the militia
appear that we could not transact our business, I say that I It appeared to him that the demand for 80,0!)0 would in
have drawn from the session which is now closing a very two years most dangerously affect the recruiting of the
different conclusion and a very opposite moral.—(Cheers. ) army, and greatly narrow the surface wnahveyn,ceantdhmesaerwinheos
I would rather adduce what has been done in this House and . constituted our regular forces --our army,
the manner in which it has been done—l would rather ad- —were to be derived. These militiamen were to be quartered
duce it as an argument in favour of representative govern- in provincial towns, in public-houses. Would not their 2e
ment, in favour, at least of the mode in which representa- a day, subject to the expenses they would necessarily • cu-,
tive government is carried on in this country,' than bring be lower wages practically than those givenwthoya,
before
eeittnshheiryre
it forward as an argument which should lead us to believe labourer? They would come once, perhaps, out
permanent, and
that the reputation of representative government is ill danger. but it would be found very difficult to catch them a rsiencsoityd
—(Cheers.) Sir, I will not dilate upon the fact that we time. And they were to be drilled for three weeks, andn
have been enable already to pass through the House of then suffered to roam about the country.
Commons 37 Government measures, 20 of which have al- could be called together again, they would have travelled
ready become law ; but when I recall to the House the cir- from one end of the country to the other—perhaps hut of
cumstances of the session, that a change of Government the country. They might have got good, and
took place, and when I remind the House of the party feel- profitible employment at Liverpool or Manchester, or some..
ings which under such circumstances naturally revived, where iniles away. Would it not be cruel to drag them back
of the great delay of business which from such circem- from that to their muster-roll for three weeks, so throwing
stances must necessarily occur, and the fact that I and my them out of work and losing them their engagements? And
colleagues only on the 15th of Marea were enabled to resume what would this threb weeks do for them ? Would it make
our seats in this House, I think it tells very much (as I said them soldiers? • Never ; never so long as the Government
before) for the good sense and good temper of the House gave them only the discipline and only the drill which by
of Commons that •we have been permitted by 'their aid their Bill they were prepared to do. The Chancellor of the
to carry out to nearly a conclueion so many important Exchequer himself, taking the common-sense view of the
measures.—(Cheers.) Sir, I remember some years ago, question, had said on the evening of the 6th of May that it
when I sat on the other side of the House, under the guid- would be madness to suppose these men capable of contend-
ance and advice of that distinguished man Lord George ing successfully with the armed legions of Algiers, of the
Beatinck, and when I took a part in public affairss, which Caucasus: But was it not precisely against such disciplined
I was not, but for the too great indulgence of my friends, cal- troops that they would have to contend ?—(llear. ) Then
culated to occupy, it became my duty to sum up the results what was the use of the Measure? He had shown that these
of the longest session that I believe the House of Commons troops—these mill iamen, he would not call them trQops—
ever yet experienced—a session of more than ten continuous would. be with difficulty collected, and when collected would
Months, concluding in the month of September, 1848. There be tit for nothing—totally unfit, as had been confessed, to
were at that time the same charges made as to the ineffi• resist a disciplined foreign invasion. These *ere the tests
ciency of the House of Commons. At that time you'were to which it ought to, be applied. But there was still the
told that the accumulation of business was intolerable, and argument that the militia, though not efficient for itself; was
that it was proved in a manner which every one ought to so indirectly, inasmuch as it increased the efficiency of the
view with alarm that a representative Government could regular' army. The whole of the regular army we could
no longer deal with the affairs of a great community. Sir, make available to defend our shores was 25,000, and it was
it was my duty then, after a careful analysis of all the mo • proposed to take 80,000 militiamen to make them more effi-
dons and all the measures of that remarkable session—it cient. He asked was it not monstrous for them to put this
was my duty-then to vindicate the conduct and character of country to the expense, the harassment, and the disorgani-
the House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.) It was my duty sation of doing thus for the army what our present policemen
also to endeavour to prove that which I gave my reasons for and pensioners, if organised, could do quite as well? He
believing-;-that it was to the weakness of the Ministry, and askedowhy should they not reject the measure? The neces-
not to the inefficiency of the House—(Hear, hear)—that this sary consequence of their doing so would be a most desirable
lamentable state, of affairs was owing. In the present in"- one—that they should hare time for calmer reflection. He
stance, Ido not think it necessary for toe to ascribe the pre: trusted, therefore, that Honourable Gentlemen would con-
sent state of public business • either, to the weakness of the eider this, and, would not fall into the silly delusion that it
Ministry or to the inefficiency of the House of. Commons, be- was better to do' something, anything, no matter what, than
cause I maintain that the position of public business at such not to legislate at all and at once upon the matter. It was
a period, and after a session so broken up and disturbed, against such an error that he wished most especially to
never was more satisfactory.—(Cheers.) I said that I claim guard them when he said that in their haste they might do
no credit for the Ministry for this result, but I can say this such wrong' as would prevent them from doing right
most sincerely for them—that we have endeavoured by sedu- hereafter.. He asked them to take time for consideration.
lous attention to the business which we had to discharge—we' Out of the mists of this discussion had already loomed the
have endeavoured to merit the generous support • which we plain fact that we possessed 65,000 regular troops withia
have received from the Howse of -Commons, even from our thesa three kingdoms. That stood out clear from their dis-
opponents.—(Cheers.) - cession, and no man could deny it. Then they had 40,000
The motion for ahe dischArge of the second reading of the in dockyard and pensioner battalions.; -10,000 yeomanry-and
Metropolitan Buildings Act was then put and agreed to. constabulary. They had a navy which had never yet been
Mr. L. HEYWORTH presented a petition' from 7,595.
THE MILITIA BILL. baffled or•discomfited; they had about 1,300 steam-ships
young men of London, and two petitions fro Pe 'capable of bearing guns. He asked, therefore for some pause.
He thought the public might sleep in peace (Hear)—and
Chatham, against the Militia Bill; - m Rochester and
this question be postponed for another year, and for more

Mr. RICH claimed the attention of the House while he
replied to the attacks made upon these Hon. Gentlemen who,
baving.voted in favour of a local Militia Bill, had felt it
their duty to oppose the general Militia Bill now before the
House. A most unfair use had been made of the charge of
inconsistency_ against those who had opposed the Government
measure. He wished to call the attention of the House to
the grounds upon which this measure, had been introduced
to the House, the'measure itself, and 'the consequencefof
its adoption. The grounds upon which the measure was in-
troduced were. easily dispatched. ' The Home Secretary had
referred to the imminent danger from abroad, and said that
in the event of invasion, and after providing for the safety
of our ports and arsenals, only 25,000 men Would remai4
available for the defence of the country. The discussion as
-
it had proceeded had dispelled both allegations. The danger
had been given up, both by words and deeds, the number
of men to be raised had been reduced in number, and the
Government had declined to take advantage of the offers
made to them by volunteer, corps. It was said the marines
could not be . counted as available for the defence of the
country, because, in the event of attack, they would be em
barked on board the fleet. . Now, the danger to be guarded
against was from a sudden and unforeseen attack upon our
shores by an enemy before we were aware of their intention
to effect a landing. In such an event it would be the height
of imptudencelo send our marines from Woolwich and from
our arsenals. and they must therefore be included in any
estimate of our disposable force. ' The Home Secretary had
also excluded Ireland and the force in that country; but
wrceelwoefrethbeouUndnitteo defend it,
United Kingdom
alsreylaonrdk
and Ireland was bound to come to our defence in
was
ere as
or mMeeihddpleesretx,a and
npda
the event of invasion. Troops had been dispatched from
Dublin to our manufacturing districts when they
were in a disturbed state, and the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman was, therefore, bound to include Ireland, Which, it
should be remembered, contained 12,000 constabulary trained
to the use of arms, and who were therefore available for
the defence of that country. Honourable Members, in
dealing with the disposability of our forces, had assumed that
we were legislating with regard to 'a large and comprehen-
sive invasion of this country, such as would imply the com-
mand of the Channel fleet, and an amount of preparation on
the part of the enemy which would -give us full time to make
counter preparations. In such a case the allocation of 10,000
men to the Thames, 5,000 to Portsmouth, and an equal num-
ber to Plymouth, would be mere mystification and misleading.
The attack to which we would be liable being sudden and un-
foreseen, there would be imbecility as well as cowardice in
locking up our troopd in garrison instead of sending them to
meet the enemy. It had been urged that those who opposed
this Bill were reckleis of the defence of the country; but the
best refutation of that imputation was to point to the various
alternatives which had been proposed as substitutes for this
measure. The Noble Lord the Member for 'London had sug-
gested a local militia, a measure more in accordance with the
constitutional precedent, more comprehensive in its operation,
and by which the men would be more easily found. That
alternative had, however, been rejected. So had the recom-
mendation of the organization of volunteer corps, and the more
important suggestion of those who preferred the addition of
10,000 or 15,000 men to the regular army. The Honourable
and Gallant Member for Westminster (Sir De Lacy Evans)
had shown how a force of 4,000 infantry and artillery might
be brought home from the colonies, and made available for
the defence of the country; but the Government refused to
listen to him. Certainly, when they were consulting about
the best means of adding to their military defences, it did
appear to him to amount to infatuation to attempt to blindly
raise a body of.men who were totally incapable of doing the
most important duty they were about to
and which duty, indeed, they.acknowledged they would not
give them time to learn ,to disehafge. whereas they might
readily go to the well-disciplined and easily recruited
regular army, and obtain • a moat•
efficient body, of
trained soldiers. Why should they not • and
consolidate
remodel that army of reserve which theyalready possessed,
for the pension and battalion system really constitute an
army of reserve? For a half- pension" of sixpence a-day,
the Government might, without difficulty, raise
10000 or 15,000 men, horn •
to 35 ears of
age, who had all served ten or twelve''years in the regular
army, and thus obtain an efficient force of - prime
soldiers before the raw levies of the int militia bad
ended
mastered the goose-step. The gap that
would thus be OCCa-
sioned in the army could easily be filled up by recruiting.
It might be said that this would be depriy" the ular
army of the best men ; but the danger f ing feg
_.„
was demanded was either real or lin or which this
agina If merely
imaginary, it might be at once entirely dismissed.•
If real,
to retain a man in England to dischara
duty of a soldier, that of defending his the most importan
prehension of danger, could net-by any latitude
in the an-
be called Jobbing the army of that mans
of language
be
maintained that by holding the indac an's services. .i?t
nsion for half service they could the erri ent of this half-
most_
efficient army of reserve from thus
form a large and
there would be no difficulty whatever in and
regular army;
because the service could easily be renderedring recruitas,
dismissal from it, instead'of being.regarded so popular that
be esteemed a punishment. Now, the G as a boon, would
hoped to get 30,000 or 40,000 militiamen i Government only
the bounty. They would' have to resort n the first year by
to the ballet, and
they would find in the present temper of the
that the practical evils of the ballot public mind
wouldendured.
He had pointed out how they could not be
or
12,000 men at once for an army of obtain 10,000 _
Now there were 30;000 pensioners, obtains.— 00
18,000 of whom were of the first from 16,000.
they , could obtain from 10,000 t c ass. Of these
fifty years of age, and these o 12,000 under
added to the others,
would at least 24,000 young mart
ldi
infinitely preferable to 35,000 or 40,000 oodise_prime 50... ors,
the system of half-pensions for iplined militia
men. By short service they
could obtain 6,000 or 8,000 more men every from _
regular army, and in asfewyears in -fact the year the
could; Y would get too
many for this country.th They.
emigrationeZl' goo however, most judi-
ciously encourage the emigration
colonies. Thisd and steady soldiers
and their families to
Was no .theory, it
A h
lr ady in practice. measure ad already
was a e the Ordnance • by Y been adopted
by the Master of
New Zealand - whichabout 2 000
sent to , Australia, 1
soldiers were
and North
raise 10,000 orl2 0
America. We might
would ' be ' o°, men in this man-
ner for the colonies, which _ . glad to re • them,
and we might keep up the small pension for politicalMVO )
would be enabled gradually to „jaw reasons.
Thus we
nies and to disbd themraw our own
troops from the colo ,
when they
had therefore arrived in this country. lie
mode
by which we might establish an army of. aster out a monil_l
of prime soldiers between 28 and 85 yea of
age
composed
thought necessary to maintain a force so large; - if it was
and the cost of' clothing, arming, and drilling tbs tula amount;
exceed 150,000/. a year. That was one of the
substitutes,
not
amongst many, which had been proposed instead ofti
But the Government *Chose to adhere to the old 0 is Bill.
militia force of the country, and said drat this Bill Iv
ariginal
in the right direction. Now, the old militia force eras a step
tially local in all respects. It was raised and drilled teeseeni."
rarily in each county or shire, and was never moved :jut ot
its own county unless . under exceptional cireemetano
War, however, broke out, and the men were marched from
county to county, and from kingdom to kitagdotn, and, .T.
fact, they became substantially a second aemy--80 much in
that in the year 1808 the Government of the a
eaY formed
and organised, out of the old volunteer corps of the year 1793
and 1804, a local militia, composed of all classes, end
trained
them round their own homes. That local
militia was the true
representative of the old militia force of this country. brcw,
what' would be the efficiency_ 'of thee proposed militia
•orne-e
under the command of . the H ffi e ? I
n the ease of
invasion there were two methods by which the regular troops
could be reinforced—either by additionat regular troops, or
by the subordinate co .operation of
.qgulauruly drilled batta-
lions, gathered by general volunteering
andd. levy ea
muse.
beneficial, in caseßoth measures were highly
essentially of
emer-
gency highly necessary ; but they were,actedwith
h distinct.
The one force joined the regular y,..
arinotner force to b it
1113taa-
taneously, and afforded time for the
this e trained
Bill
was, that it
and disciplined. His objection tocon-
founded these two resources, and-Was, like most of t heir legis-
lation, a most mischievous compromise• never fur-
nish
a body of.troope—he would not say an army. In such
essential to its a
force there were several .requirements effi-
it.
'were these: thatshould be fit for
ciency ; among which .
be easily and •
garrison and fieli duty—that it shouldcertainly
some connexion with the
I assembled—and that it should have
Now, the Chancellorhe
the country.
r spirit of the regular army of
Exchequer had told his constituents at the hustings
of the
would be cheap,)popular and efficient.
that the proposed militia
would the militia have in co
But would this be so? What
ailing
but a red coat red.
mon with the regular troops? N
Then, would it be a°
a semblance of military discipline. the ballot it would opera-
tive? They were told that withoutr,onot
this question the very.
Thee, would it be popular? I
necessity for a ballot was the reply. But, to go beyond that
the petitions •
which
he bade Honourable Members look at
had been received 4 by the House
upon the subject. Of these
one, there was, in favour of the measure, one;
argued,
as
he understood, by fifteen boys in Derby;
night-_1,377,
there Were
1 against it—exclusive of those presented that .
in number to nearly
with signatures to them amounting
hear') ) So much for the
h a quarter of a million.—(Bear,-6
popularity of the measure, of which the Chancellor of tie
Exchequer bad boasted to. his Buckinghamshire 110tieti.

. -
ample Investigation.. At all events it ought not to be dis-
cussed on the eve of a dissolution, and under the auspices of
a proVisional Government. The question, they must all feel,
bad been sufficiently before the public to be certain to be
taken up in the next Parliament. Was it not reasonable to
suppose that it would be much better settled then than at
present? The subject of our steam navy, and the reserved
forces of our army and navy, bore most materially on this
'question. On those questions a Committee was to be
moved for by his Hon. and Gallant Friend the Member for
Westminster, who was most anxious for an inquiry into the
condition of our steam navy and marine, and to know how
"far the latter were applicable, in case of need, for purposes
of war. He again asked the House to deal deliberately
and not hastily with this question; to refer it from a pro-
visional Government to an established one, and from a dying
Parliament to a living one. He concluded by moving that
the Bill be read that day six months. •
Mr. MACKINNON seconded the amendment. In the
year .042 this very question was before the House of Com-
mons, and on that occasion the measure was strongly opposed
by Hyde, afterwards Lord Clarendon—a man of high autho-
rity upon it. With regard ,to the expediency of this force,
he was not aware if any benefit had arisen from calling out
the militia. Was it, therefore, wise in the Government of
this country to decide upon calling out a militia force of
eighty thousand men, the more especially as offers had been
made by men who had a stake in the country to enrol them-
selves as volunteers? If they looked back to the two last
:revolutions in France, they would find that they had been
effected principally by men who had been accustomed to the
use of arms. He did not mean to say that they had any
reason, to be apprehensive of such a result in this country
from the embodiment of a militia; but the fact he had alluded
to could not escape observation. If they really apprehended
any danger of an invasion, he weals', ask them, why they
should not, in preference, increase their army and navy?
Suppose a force of forty thonsand men invaded their coasts,
the invading force would be over half the country before a
militia could be called together. Under all the circumstances,
he saw no use in their proceeding with this hasty measure,
and he felt that it would be more in accordance with the feel-
ings of the country, that the further consideration of this Bill
should be postponed till, that day three months.
*Lord IL VANE would vote for the third reeding. and
eventually for the motion of the Hon, Member for Lam-
beth, to omit the compulsory clauses. He agreed with the
mover and seconder of the amendment that this measure
had evoked a considerable'spirit of hostility throughout the
country, but that was not a sufficient reason for negativing
it, if that House thought it necessary for the honour and
safety of the country. Looking at the fact that the pre-
ceding Government were pledged to some measure of the
kind, and that the present Government had introduced it.
on their executive responsibility, he could not feel justified
in wholly opposing the Bill, but at the same time must ex-
press his regret that the Government insisted on the ballot-
Ling clause, which it would be his duty to oppose.
Mr. MACGREGOR said that public opinion out of doors
was entirely against the Bill, and therefore he wondered at
the hardihood of the Government in going to the country on
such a measure. In London the people had no apprehen-
sion when the funds were beyond par, and when enormous
sums of money were leaving every day for Investment in
the public works of France. He believed that there never
was a period in the history of the latter country when they
were so desirous of maintaining amicable relations with us,
and he knew that the President felt that nothing could be so
dangerous to the stability of his own power as any rupture
with England. As to the other three great Powers-Russia,
Austria, and Prussia—their policy, especially since the death
of Prince Schwarzenberg, was one of peace, and of corn-
pact defence,. not against the French President, but against
the eventualities of another revolution. In such a state of
things, he thought, that a more impolitic Bill had 'never
he would willingly consent
been introduced into .that House.—(Hear; hear.) If in-
coe-than a body of men who
our marine force, and that
wouldtc
or e
theas e d
,additionbo force.a much'
werea
o sb,to,oernecessary,demenf
would only• be bad soldiers and worse citizens.. With
these views he felt bound to oppose the further progress of
the Bill. •
Mr. HEADLSIII intended to vote agaih-t the third read-
ing, and hoped that the House would concur with him in
rejecting thnmeasure. At the 'same time he was willing to
admit that the Gevernment had some excuse in the public
clamour, and in the act of their predecessors, and that in
their difficulty they had produced a measure as little objec-
tionable as possible, but it was only an argument against
any measure of the description, that nothing better could
be produced. His objection to the voluntary pokier' of
this Bill was that it proposed to raise a regular force on
the leant economical principle. He was willing' to admit
that thernwits some argument for increased defence in the
improvement of modern science and' the increased facilities
of transit. He did not believe that there was any hostile
feeling towards us on the part of' France ; and if there were,
this. Bill was so 'inefficient that it was a mere waste of
money. For these reasons, he should give his vote against
the measure. . .
Mr. EWART said it was a paramount and insurmount-
able objection to a Ministerial measure that it was ineffi-
cient; and this was so. Let the necessity fer.additional
defence be proved,' end he Would consent to an increase of
the regular army and of the artillery. He believed that,
compared with past wars, future wars—from which Heaven
defend us—would be infinitely more destructive. He con.
tended that a militia force was not suited to the times we
lived in. Adam Smith described it as a most barbarous
force; and if the force was inapplicable to this country in
his time, it was much more so now. To constitute the best
military force, the piinciple of division of labour must be
acted upon, which was in favour of a standing army. He
was also opposed to this Bill, because it had two other Acts
engrafted upon it, that of George 111. and the Mutiny Act,
which would authOrise flogging in' the militia. He found
that enlightened foreigners 'were disapproVing of a militia
force in Prussia and Austria,' and they said that it would be
found inapplicable here; but taking the opinion of military
men in our own country, they were all in favour of an aug-
mentation of, the regular army. Considering that this •Bill
would give neither a good nor an efficient force, be should,
vote against it.
Sir H. VERNEY said • the Bill would be tteeful as" a
means of training the population to arms, which was
one of the most satisfactory' measures of national• defence
that could be adopted. He hoped the Secretary at War
would make such regulations as would prevent the ad-
mission of persons of bad character into the force. He
trusted encouragement would be given to the rifle corps,
who would prove most valuable soldiers. It was desirable
that the army should be increased by some rifle regiments.
He thought the guns formerly mounted in the Martello
towers ought to be replaced Ihere, and the towers manned.
nit might be dond at a very trifling expense. The aug-
mentation in the French marines and navy was proportion-
d for theprotection of commerce,
rines were principally used
h t h d little
but it should be remembered t a ce a very
.1..
commerce to Protect. There were means ot defence avail-
ally much greater than in our own. It was said that ma-
able to this country in its mercantile marine force; each
might also be applied to all the liar-
this species of defeuee •
boors on the coast. th oof he Bill to
Supposing yp Heats. o t
nt Government-
be mistaken, and that the lapt end tne prese
vessel might be made to carry one or more swivel guns; and
pprehensfens they entertaine,d, it -co
So long as we were assailable, it was the most
the country.
imperative duty of the Government to bring forward such
measures as they thought necessary for the safety of
nil,:
uld
country; and to neglect to do so would expose them to _
ntetraberidgehntieidn tthhaet athis Bill would conduce to the safety. of
tefennnattfj•wino'ufalnid
• n of national defences ought fo be submitted
said the question the Govern-
ment or. Commission; and he hoped
to a Committee The Hon. Member for the West Riding had
Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE said it appear as if the Go-
for Bedford
vernment had abandoned to the Hon. Memberassing
it
infamy
lose sight of that suggestion.ed •
the defence of this Bill, and the responsibili y p
into lava—, se that had
other reasons for the measure than tho
' were no then the dislike with
been adduced by the llpn. Baronet, likely
to regarded,. the measure
was not
which the country not
He he'd never heard a more war-
(Hear hear l)
And he must add that if there
to be lessened in futu
edrien. blander terms than that which was
like speech
reading of this Bill, the Hon. Gentle-
voting for the third
Ministers to put the Martello towers
man called upon the
that
Produce the swivel guns had been laid
in order—to
last war, and then they might laugh to
up since the
just concluedxedPrhy the. lion. Baronet. Not content with
bilg Bufordef to what was said argue
He had been o
for want of any 'other
Hon. Member for
r of the measure; and, whatever objec-
ments in favour
might have to the principle of this Bill, he would
scorn a French invasion.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
tions he
waisdeissttemaupaeregdreiamteas-t
principles of the Peace Society. But, at the
views and
he hoped he would never be found to under-
value
wouldefforts
aamettreeexertions or to impeach the motives of that truly
confess at once that he did not found those objections on the
laugh at the theories of those men ; but he
benevolent body of men. It was very easy to deride the
by no less a person than Plato, and
raldintad Honourable Gentlemen that they thought so
paying by the divine founder of our religion and corning
gn
ionvaetli and
entwerehusiastic
d thhye sopmraeduoeftsthoef
men of ancient times;