The Sun.
London, England, 1864-01-28 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, JANUARY 28, 1864.

WHERE CAN WE MEET AF .ER THE
PANTOMIMES ? My dear Fellow, Gentlemen sup
at E VANS', Covent-garden.

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repression, bat, not being able to obtain it they put
up, by way of satisfaction, with a treaty which was
not so advantageous as might have been wished.
Later, an insult in Mexico had been punished by a
vigorous coup de main by Admiral Baudin. But as
for equitable and discriminating repression in these
countries it could only be obtained by a good under-
standing with the governments. M. Thiers then
explained the present situation in Mexico, observing
that the country was divided into two great parties
—the Conservatives, called by their adversaries
clericals and reactioniste ; and the Liberals, called
by their adversaries anarchists and revolutionists.
In the Conservative party there were many great
families of the old regime who wished to make
Mexico a second Brazils, The Brazils instead of
going for a republic had stopped at constitutional
monarchy—a word not in favour, but he could
not help speaking his own language. Under
the constitutional monarchy—(some murmurs)—
Brazil had found order, liberty, and growing
prosperity. But to procure similar beatitudes
for Mexico was a work of difficulty. In the first
place, they had had to look out for: a prince. Had
analogies been followed, Spain would have been
asked to furnish one; but recollections of the war of
independence had left Mexico a great repugnance
to the Spaniards. Then a somewhat arbitrary, not
to say fantastic choice of a candidate had been made.
They had fixed upon a prince who had certainly no
partisans in the country. The Conservative
party had for its allies a Otholitelergy, which was
wanting in the virtues and intelligence of the clergy
in Europe. That clergy had been very wealthy,
and was mixed up in all the political troubles of the
country, Its property had been confiscated, and
now its great object was to get it back. M. Theirs
then came to the struggle between Miramon and
Juarez. The first was a couragectie but not very wise
young man. The second was an Indian by birth, a lawyer
by profession, and, though now the enemy of France, it was
only just to say that his countrymen did not look upon
him as a dishonest man. He had shown remarkable
strength of character. Miramon was installed in Mexico,
and at the head of the public force, while Juarez was at
Vera Cruz without a piastre ; and yet by patience and per-
severance he succeeded in the course of a few months in
making his entry into Mexico, and Miramon took to flight.
Juarez founded a moderate Government and showed great
firmness in checking his Congress, in which the most
radical opinions prevailed. When the treaty with M. de
Saligny, the French minister, was broken, the right and
prudent thing to have done would have been to take pos-
session of Tampico and Vera Cruz, and receive the cus-
toms duties at theseloorts until the debt had been liquidated,
That was the English system in such cases. Not a very
brilliant one, indeed ; not one by which much glory could
be acquired, but safe and effectual. After referring to the
deceptive reports spread by the clerical party in Europe
that the Mexican people were so tired of Juarez's govern-,
ment that they would rise as one man on the first appear-
ance of an invading flag, and ac:daim the European prince
proposed to them, M. Thiers reviewed the original negotia-
tions with London and Madrid, showing that England
steadily declined to interfere in any way whatever with the
internal government of the counry— and that Spain, while
prompting France to establish a monarchy, wanted to set
up a Spanish prince, which France would not consent to.
The zeal of Spain in the affair being thus cooled, she con-
sented—but not, as he (M. Thiers) thought, without an
arribv pensde—to the English convention of Oct. 31, 1861.
That convention was in reality bit a negation, for England
only intended to take possession of Vera Cruz and Tampico.
Spain wanted to found a monarchy for the benefit of a
Spanish prince ; France had in Aer mind a monarchy with
an Austrian sovereign. Under such circumstances the
treaty, though in form obligatory, could only in point of
fact be negative. The Spaniards were the first to set out on
the expedition. They sailed hem Havannah, and arrived
at Vera Cruz on Dec.l. General Prim, their commander,
and who had been accepted by France as generalissimo of
the expedition, was a brilliant soldier, but full of Castilian
pride. He closely obserVed the tilde of the country, and
soon found that Europa had been altogether detSeiVed when
it fancied that the:monarchical party would rise as soon as
the European troops landed. .bout three weeks later the
French force, under the comniand'of en aide man, Admiral
Jurien dela Graviere; landed also, He agreed with Gen.
Frith that it Was priideitt 10 *ail far the ptOrteleed demon-
strations. But they waited and waited in vain ; no tadnar-
chial movements took place. The Imes, could not, however,
remain much longer at Vera Cruz,disease making great havoc
among there, The Spaniards had 2,000 sick. How many
French Were sick had never been statedi brit the ntimber
wars kfioWir to be large. 'A° English fords ado only 700
strong, and of that number 153 were in hospital. The three
commanders, French; Spanish, and English, agreed that it
was impossible to ierriain any- longer in Vera Cruz. They
marched a few leagues into the inteiler df the dortntry,
where the troops found themselves a little better; arid then,
as it was felt necessary to do something, they issued a pro-
claMatidn to the Meiidans, telling them that they had net
come to conquer or revolutionise their country, but merely
to claim pecuniary indemnitite due to French, Spanish, and
English isnhjeCts4 The form of an illiimattim Was given to
this proclamation, and s therefore exact sums were stated.
England claimed 85 millions of francs, Spain 40 millions,
France 60 millions; and 20 millions were denianded on behalf
of some other natitins, The totali amontiting to 200 millions,
seemed rather high in regard to the id iatiilitiets df the
Mexican budget, but when, in addition, the Jecker bongs,
amounting to 75 millions, were brought forward, the Mexi-
can Government was startled and hesitated to pay. He
would only say of the Jecker bonds that they had a very
bad reputation. However, it was agreed that the question
should be referred to the three European Governments.
but meanwhile three officers were despatched to the city of
Mexico with an ultimatum which could not have been very
peremptory or precise, because no amortnt Was fixed. These
officers were most politely received, and told that if the
European troops had come for justice they should most
assuredly have it, and that General Dolled°, a moat dis-
tinguished man, would go and treat with the plenipoten-
, finding that the number of
sick at re np
increasedi o t e n t i ar iQueryes
day, that they could have
tnioaraienss.wVra CpeeTrhfreom Europe for two months, and that the gene-
rals were at the head of six or seven thousand men without
means of transport, negotiated with General Doblado, and
agreed that their troops should occupy the healthy heights
of Orizaba, on condition that they should retire from them
if the negotiations came to nothing. The Mexican flag
, side by side with the flags
Ilseti were still kept as a
g
Here was the history of
that famous convention
o
waspofl ed theagain
.allies, hoisted
but
the Verac u e
t eo
ms u.zilc
ssvedthe three little armies,y
for they would have been destroytd b_
the vomits at Vera
Cruss.
hadS
which
e as so dishonourable.
Itf wasol Soled ad
acl which
convention beenich hadr galled
M. G should not have stayed
there,
cl‘ov:a:sWaguoulade—We
you lave gone away ?
M. ahrn
Cassagnae—Lnurediatelk, sword in hand.
M. Roiiher=—We should haVe go" tietico.
m Traai
eut: r
M. Jubinal (a member of the majority)—pow could that
have been, when we had not a single horse to draw a gun?
M. Thiers, resuming, said that fo# o
la Grayiere for having
vVil part he gage
Applaue on several benches.)
If anybody was to be found fault with, it
cgorneactlucdreedditthteo
cAondmveinratilonJu. ri(en de
was those who
had fancied it possible to conquer Mexico with a few thous-
and men. It was right that justice should be done to a
brave officer. (Several voices—(" Itear) hear.")
tainailian Emperor. He
M. Thiers then showed that Alrconte's party in Europe
had succeeded in getting the Vsellei Government to decide
that it would not treat at all with tuareZ, and to espouse
the
egr perttoejdec h had never published the
minutes of the conference of Orisata of April 15, where
regretted
of t making
the
o ArchdukevernmGovernment
M
these things clearly appeared, flask What M. do Saligny
and Admiral Jurien de la Graviere said of their instruc-
tions. Well, the war had gone on. After a year to repair
General Lorencz's check before Puebla, the gallant Marshal
Forey had been sent out with large reinforcements, and,
as was to have been expected, he had taken the city of
Mexico. He would, after these indispensable prelimin-
aries, corae to the immediate and practical question.
They were in Mexico, and what ought they to do now ?
' Why, he would say, treat with Juarez, as they ought
to have done long ago. General Bazaine, who was
, reputed to be an able negotiator as well as a good
i general, had already quarrelled with the Archbishop of
Mexico, who represented the old regime, and had admitted
that the liberal party was in the right as to the national
property. That fact showed that the liberal party could not
be such very great barbarians. It was no doubt disagree-
able to treat with Juarez after having protested sq long that
they would not do so; but that was the only rational thing
to do, as it had been quite ascertained that he was at tho
head of the strongest party in the country. If they did not
do so the prospect was a permanent army of 40,000 men in
Mexico, and a drain upon the budget of 13, 14, or 15 mil-
lions per month. As to the notion of setting up the Latin
against the Anglo-Saxon race, he did not think it worth
the consideration of serious men. The Archduke was
going out, they were told. He would arrive in April, just
in time to receive congratulations before the wet season set
in. He would admit that he would be well received; be
never knew of a new prince who was not. But the rains
would prevent any military operations between May and
September or October. During all that while the new
monarch must be protected, for they cod' it be so ran-

nq

generous as to take him away ;rem his family and country,
and leave him to himself in a state of fearful embarrass-
ment. They must recollect that he would arrive there
without a piastre. Mexico was greatly indebted, and did
not pay her debts. England and Spain held the custom•
houses as a security for 200 millions, and nothing could be
got from that source till they ware paid. The Archduke would
want, therefore, 300 or 400 millions to start with. Where
were they to come from ? A loan had been talked of.
A loan was no doubt ea.)? if France guaranteed it; but if
such a thing were proposed, he would venture to say that
the habitually small minority in opposition would be singu-
larly augmented. Without the guarantee of France a loan
was out of the question. M. Thidrs then made the follow-
ing declaration in answer to an audacious statement of the
/lioniteur ; —" It was said yesterday—geography being
treated rather cavalierly—that we occupied already seven-
eighths of the country. I tell you that we do not occupy
a twentieth part of it; and that out of a population of
eight millions, two at most are subjected to our rule."
A consideration most important to be borne in• mind was,
that although both the North and the South of the United
States might for the present affect no displeasure at what
was doing in Mexico, the only reason was that neither party
wished to offend France, whose interference one way or the
other at the present moment (an interference which he was
glad had nut been attempted) might so materially affect
their interests. But it was tolerably certain that once
the civil war over, the United States would forget all her
present politeness, and if she did not actually declare
war, would let loose hosts of disbanded soldiers, who would
desire no better employment than to overrun Mexico.
The Chaix d'Est Adge replied to him on behalf of the
Government, and was answered by M. Berryer.
The debate was adjourned.

Naval and Military Intelligence.

THE NAVY.

VALETTA, Jan. 22.—The Trafalgar, 72, Capt. T. Mason,
has been detained here till the arrival of the Meeonee, 60,
Capt. G. Wodehouse, expected in a few days from Athens.
The Trafalgar will then proceed to England to be paid off.
The Cossack, 20, Capt. W. R. Rolland, received orders yes-
terday to hold herself in readiness to sail for Tripoli and
Benghazi. She is to convey Mr. Saunders, electrician to
Messrs. Glass, Elliot, and Co., to these places, for the pur-
pose of examining into the state of the Malta and Alexan-
dria telegraph cable, which has stopped working since the
13th inst. Mr. Saunders is expected from Marseilles to-
night, A steamer especially fitted for such employment
has been ordered from England to the Mediterranean to re-
pair the cable. The weather, which has been very boister-
ous for some time past, is rather calmer, but is not quite
settled yet. From Alexandria accounts have been received
that an English steamer, named the Atlas, employed in im-
porting horses and cattle for the Viceroy from France, had
gone ashore at Rossetta, but had been got off and safely
towed into Alexandria by her Majesty's ship Psycho, to
whose commander, Lieut. P. Sterne, great credit is due for
his exertions in the matter, This is not the ship of the same
name belonging to Messrs. Burns and M'lver, of Liverpool.
The Phcebe, 35, Capf. T. D. A. Fortoscue, having completed
the repair of her engines in her Majesty's dockyard at this
island, will leave some time next week for the coast of Syria
to relieve the Liffey, 35, Capt. George Parker. The Eng-
lish screw steamer Semaphore, Capt. R. Green, arrived yes-
terday, from London 14 days, and Gibraltar six, with tele-
graph cable on board for Brindisi, and passengers Mr. G.
Henley and 15 labourers.
The iron-clad screw steamship Royal Oak, 35, Capt. F.
N. A. Campbell, having embarked supernumeraries for the
Channel Squadron and Royal Marines for the flagship
Edgar, now in the Tagus, is under orders to leave Plymouth
Sound for Lisbon, Gibraltar, and Malta. It will be recol-
lected that when docked in Keyham steamyard very serious
effects had been produced by the galvanic action of her
copper sheathing on the adjoining iron plates. Immediately
afterwards it was determined to protect an intermediate
space all round by the application of Hall's vitreous sheath-
ing; but it was subsequently resolved to use the vitreous
sheathing on one side and a band of zinc on the other. The
upper sheet of Muntz's metal, 14in deep, was therefore
stripped from the port side and a listing 7in wide and 31in
deep was cut into the ship. All the ends of the metal bolts
were then cut off. A plank 2in thick was introduced into the
bed of the cutting to prevent the ends of the bolts from
coming into direct contact with the band of zinc, which was
1 in thick. It being fastened on the plank the space made
by the cutting became flush with the metal below and the
iron plates above. It is expected that this band will prove
a sufficient non. conductor to prevent the sheathing metal
from producing any galvanic action on the iron plates.
On the starboard side about 3,500 of Hall's vitrified plates
have been glued or fastened en in a depth varying from Eft
under the stern to 2ft at the bow. There is a space, more or
less, Of 2in between the upper edge of the copper sheathing
and the lower edge of the iron plates; this space is left in
order to cut off all connexion between the two metals, and
was well paid with Hall's anti-fouling composition. The
%hree lower tiers of vitreous plates are fastened on the wood
with Composition nails ; those above are glued. The edges
of the upper tier are covered by the teak-rubbing pieces.
Some difficulty was eXperiene,ed in fixing the plates under
the quarters and near the sternport, in consequence of the
shape of the ship. The thinnest plates ►ere selected for
this ptifpngo. Like the rest, they were forced on by hand
pressure only. 'Were galvanic action had eaten through
the face of the armour plates., the holes or pits have been
filled with a mixture of Portland cement and Hall's glue.
it was,. however, previously necessary to expose these pits
to the lengthened heat of burning charcoal, in order to ex-
tract from the iron the salt left by the previous admission
of sea water when she Was in active service. To protect the
stem a plate of vitrified iron was prepared, 4ft 4in long, 18in
deep, Inn wide, and ;'in in thickness. This plate was
bronght home to the stem by vitrified screws (having en-
amelled hetide.) to within the 16th of an inch, it was then
puddled below, and hot gltte having been poured in above,
the screws were driven in, and the plate was firmly fastened,
it is understood that zicc is more liabl4 to be injured by
contiguity with Muntz's metal than iron, but the zinc band
can be readily replaced in dock without damaging the ship.
The Royal Oak will be accompanied by the gunboat Trin-
out°, tender to the Edgar. _

ller Majesty's iron steam store ship Industry, Master
Commander Yotiel, from Rio de Janeiro, having landed
her victualling stores dt Deptford yesterday, went down
to Woolwich to be docked and cleaned down, as her sides
are clogged with barnacles and seaweed.
Some testing of armour plates too;: place at Portsmouth
yesterday, which was attended with unusual interest from
the comparative results obtained with different kiL is of
projectiles fired from the 95evet 68-pounder cast iron gun ,
and the 100-pounder Elswick amooth-bore: Ihe plates
were each of siin in thickness, 15ft 6in in lengthi and 3tt
3in in width. One from Messrs. John Brown and Co., of
Sheffield, was for the iron frigate Agincoutt, and the
other was sent in by the Millwall Ironworks for the iron
frigate Northumberland. Both were tested in the first
place with cast iron shot from the 68-pounder gun in the
ordinary way, in order to award them their figure of
merit, according to the Admiralty regulationdi fit quality
of metal and mantlfeeture. Both passed through this
ordeal satisfactorily, although tried severely by clusters of
shot impacts and edge blows. The maximum depth of
the indents was 2in, dud the minimum I 1-16 in. On
Brown and Co.'s plate, in its upper right centre, four shots
struck in a semicircular line, that measured but 32in
through the greatest extent of the curve. Throughout
this space there was only Oho small surface crack. On
the left lower corner of this plate five shots struck imping-
ing on each oircutaference. Two of them were only half on
the plate's edge. There Was nothing like penetration even
here—nothing, indeed, but a longitudinal opening of the
metal, about an inch in depth, and a slight stretching open
of the laming on the edge. The plate exhibited wonderful
tenacity and solidity, without the slightest appearance of
brittleness. The Millwall plate was also struck in several
places on its right edge, but without penetration being
effected, although a small semicircular piece, 24in in length
by 10in in width, was broken out through half the plate's
thickness. The laminae were opened on the plate's edge in
the vicinity of the places struck. The plates were of un-
dotibted excellence both in the quality of the metal and in
their manufacture. It is dotibtfull indeed, if a plate supe-
rior in any way to Messrs. Brown's was ever tested at Ports-
mouth. It is necessary to dwell thus on the extraordinary
qualities d thesd two plates in order to render clear the
true value of the firing which followed on the official testing
of the plates being concluded, and which was as follows :
Messrs. tirosen'e plate etas selected for firing against with
improved cast-iron spherical tertacible) shot from the Els.
wick 100-pounder smooth bore gun (diameter of bore 9in
and weight 120 cwt 2qrs), with a charge of 251 b of vowder.
Three Allots were fired. No. 1 struck the plate on the lower
edge and touched a belt. it produced an indent pf 4in at
its greatest depth, with a diameter of Olin, and with on►; a
surface crack round the indent. No. 2 struck just bier the
lewer edge, producing an indent of 10in in diameter and d
greatest depth of 3 8-10 in, with a slight surface crack in the
indent. Both these shots were destroyed in the ordinary
manner of cast-iron projectiles. No. 3 shot struck fairly on
the plate, and part of it remained fastened in the plate's
outer surface. It will be seen that the damage ice
fficted by these improved cast-iron sh)t was hardly
commensurate with their increased weight and
the extra 91b of powder charge as compared with
the 68-pounder gun. The Millwall plate had next three steel
shots sent against it from the same Elswick gun, with a
similar charge of 251 b. of powder, and the results obtained
with these steel projectiles were certainly astonishing. Plates
have been pierced before by steel shot, but never one of
equal excellence with the Millwall plate of yesterday. No. 1
shot struck about 4in below tile tipper edge of the plate, a
distance away from any damaged part, and, breaking right
through, buried itself and the broken partsof otg plate in