The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-08 00:00:00

TITHES.

On the motion of Mr. C. LEWIS returns were or-
-3e.-7cd of all agreements for the commutation of tithes
which have been confirmed by the Tithe Commissioners
in the several counties of England and Wales, from the
let day of January, 1851, to the let day of January,
185:1.' specifying, in each case the amount of rent-charge
agra ad to be paid in lieu of tithe;, and showing whether
the came be payable to appropriators, iinpropriaters,
or cl erica? incumbents; of all awards for the cum-
mutat ion of tithes which have been confirmed by
the Tithe Commissioners in the several counties of Eng-
land and Wale;' from the let day of January, 1851, to
the Ist d ay of January,/1852; specifying also, in each
case, the amount of rent-charge awarded to be paid in
lieu of ti thee, and showing whether the same b.) payable
to apprc .priators, impropriators, or clerical incumbents.
And, of all apoortionments of rent-carges which h ive
been co afirmed by the Tithe Comnais-sionors, from the
Ist d j'- of January, 1851, to the Ist day of January,
1852 (in continuation of Parliamentary paper, No. 465,
of se ssioa 1851).
THE PATAGONIAN MISSION.
MONCKTON MILNES moved for a copy of the
dis•datf:h lately received at the Admiralty from the
COmraander-in- Chief in the Pacific, transmitting a re-
port made to him by Captain Morshe id, of her Ma-
jost3 's ship Dido, respecting the death by starvation of
Cor amender A. F. Gardiner, R.N., and the whole of the
par ty sent out by the Patagonian Missionary Society in
182,0 to Picton Island, the southera extremity of Ame-
rica.—Agreed to.
PATENT LAW AMENDMENT.
In reply to Mr. RICARDO,
Mr. lIENLEY said it was impossible to proceed with
this Bill to-night. lie thought that to refer it to a Se-
lect Committee in the present state of the session would
be virtually to throw the subject over for another year.

- TUE INCOME-TAX.
On the question that the House at its rising do ad-
journ until Monday next,
Mr. 111.7 ME complained that the Income-tax Bill was
read a second time at so late an hour as two o'clock
in the morning. If he had had the slightest idea that
the second reading would have been proposed he
should have stayed beyond twelve o'clock, though
ho had then Loon upwards of twelve hours within
the walls of the House. He protested agaiast the Bill
being further proceeded with unless the Government
were prepared to carry out the abolition of the remain-
ing imposts on articles of necessity. Sir Robert Peel
when he proposed the tax gave a pledge that
he would gradually reduce the duties on articles
of general consumption; he thought this pledge ought
to be fulfilled. Free trade ought to be extended to the
fullest limits, ao that the agricultural and all other inte-
rests should be put on the same footing. The Committee
upstairs had declared the income-tax to be most unequal
and unjust in operation. He did not advocate any party
doctrine, because relief from taxation benefited all
classes. It was their duty to the country not to con-
tinue an onerous tax for ono purpose while it was
levied fur another—viz., to enable a general reduction of
taxation to take place.
Mr. NEWDEGATE differed with the Hon. Member
in his statement, that it was inconsistent on the part of
the Government to continue the income-tax without re-
ducirg taxation. On the contrary, he took their con-
duct in this respect to be an earnest pledge that the suf-
ferings of the agricultural interest would be brought by
them under the consideration of the future Parliament.
It was with deep satisfaction he heard that the Govern-
ment intended to effectle, more equal adjustment of taxa-
tion. Lie complained that it was irrelevant to the busi-
neis before the House to introduce questions about the
income-tax
After a few words from Sir DE LACY EVANS,
Mr. RICARDO agreed with the Hon. Member for
Montrose that it was improper to bring forward a Bill
of such great importance at two o'clock in the morning.
The declaration made last night by the Chancellor of
the Exchequer was entirely at variance with that con-
tained in his financial statement.—(Elear.) He had
said that it was the intention of the Government to shift
the burdens from the landlords, and to place them on the
shoulders of the manufacturers, and before the Income-
tax Bill passed the people ought to be informed what the
real obj we, of the Government was.
Mr. WAKLEY also concurred in the impropriety of
moving the second reading at such an hour. The pro-
ceeding was unworthy of any Administration. The
Chancellor of the Exchequer's declaration had produced
out of doors not only profound astonishment, but great
indignation. He was bound to tell the House
and the country not in any mysterious language,
but in plain, bold, and intelligible expressions,
what the Government really intended to do. Did they
want to get a majority at the elections, and then to lay
on protective duties? The country had a right to know
the nature of their policy at once, so that a fair battle
might take place on the hustings. If they declined to
give the required information, they would be guilty of
absolute dishonesty. He was positively disgusted with
regard to the course taken by the late and present
Governments on the Militia Bill—they were both alike to
blame, being tarred with the same brush. He had
hoped that the wit and good sense of the present Go-,
vernment would have induced them not to take up so
unpopular a measure, for it was evident it could not be
passed without creating great annoyance and incon-
venience to the public.
Ale r a few observations from Mr. BAILLIE COCH-
RANE,
Mr. BRIGHT thought this discussion would dispel
two delusions which at present existed throughout
the country, and were calculated to de a great deal of
public' injury. One had been originated by the Hon.
Member for Warwickshire (Mr. Spooner), who had a
motion on the viper for inquiry into the College of May-
nooth. The leader of the Government in the House
of Commons was deeply responsible for not bringing
such questions as Maynooth to an immediate
crisis.—(Hear, hear.) For instance, upon the ques-
tion of Protection, the followers of the Government
wore for one thing, while the speeches of their leader
preached another, arid their countenances were conti-
nually alternating between cloud and sunshine, according
to the tone of the Right Hon. Gentleman's addresses.
Tho Right Lion. Gentleman, in fact, reminded him
of a character which was to be found a few years
ago in a party of Indians who were visiting
this country. He advised them upon all their
temporal and spiritual concerns, and was also their
medical adviser.—(Hear, hear.) He was, in a word,
the mystery man of the party—(A laugh)—and
the Right honourable Gentleman appeared to
him to be the mystery man of the aboriginal
party opposite.—(Laughter.) He urged upon the Right
Hon. Gentleman, then, the propriety of postponing this
question until the Parliament to ba held in autumn
or till the session of
1853. There was no
necessity for a militia now, and, therefore, he
insisted that the Bill ought to be postponed until after
the general election., when those who were rcurned to
Parliament would he able to judge this question in a clear
and impartial spirit.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. P. MILES rose to state on behalf of the followers
of protection that they had the utmost coetideece in
her MjestY'3 Ministers, and whether in the next
Parliament it was done iu the shape of an import
duty on corn, or by any other means, they were con-
vinced that the Government would make an effort
to carry into practice
e those great principles
which theY had so 'mg and ably advocated in opposi-
tion.—(Cheers.)
Mr. SPOONER said ho was neither a dupe nor a de-
ceiver; but, nevertheless, ho should persevere with his
motion on Monde), next, though at the same time he
thought that no motion, which was not absolutely neces-
sary, ought to be brought forward this session.—(Hear.)
Sir B. HALL believed that the present Government
came into office for the purpose of carryieg out
the principles of protective, and he was informed
that immediately after Lei d Derby was called
to the heed of affairs in this cluntrr, that a society,
which was called "A Society for the Protection of
Native Industry," and which was, in point of fact, a
pro corn-law society, held a meeting, at ehich the lion.
Member for North Warwickshire (Mr. Ncwdegate)
presided; and that Honourable Gentleman commenced
the proceedings by efferiug up thanks to the Almighty
Goodness for having restored the Earl of Derby to
power, in order that the principle of protection might be
There fully carried out. nn
was no aTchbiahop preaont
the occasion—en
\--ta'alrh)--but it was left to the Hon.
Member for North Warwickshire to offer up Fivers.
Mr. NEWDEGATE rose to order. What the Hon.
Baronet was stating was quite incorrect. He did not
think it right to permit an allusion of this kind to be
made without interrupting the lion. Baronet. He did
not
say any Pra7eio
the occasion referred to. Ile
begged the Hon. Baroinit would afford him the only re-
paration in his power, by reading the terms of the reso-
lution therein.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir B. Pr
—AIL said he intended to do so. He would
withdraw the word " e pr y r," and would substitute the
word " thanksgiving." a-
The document was headed
" Meeting of the actin g committee of tho National So-
ciety for the Protection of Industry and Capital through-
out the British l' • " It then went on to say—" At
emp ire.
the meeting committee of the National As-
sociation for the Protection of Industry and Capital, held
at the South Sea House, in London, on the let March,
1852—arles N. Newdegate, e
chq M.P., deputy chair-
•
man of the acting committee, in the chair—it was re-
solved that—' This association, in the first place, ac-
knowledge the hand of AlmightY t.; ed, and hails with
fervent gratitude the advent to power of the Earl of
Derby" The next resolution was to this effect:—" It
is recommended to the supporters of agricultural and
British industry to use every P,)ssiblo and legitinN.ete in-
fluence to secure the return to nirliamout of such men
fur boroughs and counties as will support the Govern-
ment of the Earl of Derby, and that policy of which he
is the able and most distiegnished exponent." It was
reed upon that
further ag the resolutions should bo
transmitted to the 'Earl of Derby, and that copies
be forwarded to the chairmen of the local societies
throughout the killed° rri and should be otherwise
eirculated.—(Llca,r,thoroughly ' bear') lie would now
tell them what were the objects of this society, and who
were the chief officers of this association, and then he
would be able to show it was utterly
impossible for men
holding such a meeting at such a time to give up the
principle of protection. The objects of this association,
as stated, wore the restoration and maintenance of pro-
teetion.—(llear, hear.) And to give effect to
these ob-
jects, it was proposed to ooneentrate in the metropolis
the vast but scattered power inveetefl in those persons
within the United Kingdom who were favourable to the
principle of protection; and to apply that power to the
slibvereiou of the Foot system of fr©e resole, by every

constitutional and legitimate means available. The Go-
vernment were bound to protection in consequence of
that meeting. They were bound by their association to
this principle of protection, and for the imposition of a
tax upon the food of tho country. Who were the
vice-presidents of this association? He would read
the names of those who hold important offices in the
Government. The Judge Advocate, the Secretary-
at-War, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lan-
caster, the Prime Minister—(Cheers from the
the Opposition)—the Under Secretary for the Colonies,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer—(Ronewed cheers
from the same quarter) —the Lord Chamberlain, the
President of the Board of Control, the Lord Steward, the
Secretary for Foreign /Weirs, and the First Comm.s-
stoners of Works. He would not follow the list through.
There were several Lords and Gentlement of the Hones-
hold. Well, then, he repeated that in the face of such a
meeting it was utterly impossible for the Government to
give up those opinions which they had formerly pro-
fessed. He was glad to hear the speech of the Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite, because if there was any veil thrown
over this question it was now withdrawn. When they
went to a dissolution the people would be able now to
say that they voted against a G )vernment that was
pledged by every point of honour and by every principle
which men hold dear, by their political as well as their
private character, to lay a tax on the food of the people.
- No, no," from the Ministerial fide of the House).
It was convenient for them to say "Na," because they
dared cot say anything else to the public. His belief
was, that, giving them every credit for honourable in-
tentions, they will try to re-enact protection if they can
succeed in inducing the people to coneent to it.
Mr. ADDERLEY said it seemed to him that the Hon.
Baronet had got hold of a wonderful mare's nest.—
(Hear, hear.) Now, what did it amount to? Why,
merely that a few :Members of this site of the Hout•e
who were wollknown to the Hon. l:Paronet had belonged
to the society alluded to for a groat number of years.
—(beat., hear.) Supposing any person had been in the
society in 1846, when they were struggling for the prin-
ciples of protection, and that they still remained in it up
to the present day, might not such persons feel that
though it was impossible to re-enact those protective
duties, yet that the hardships inflicted on the farmers
mast be fully acknowledged.—(Hear, hear.) Under
such circumstances, would there be anything incon-
sistent in finding their names still in this society? But
there was even a more wonderful mare's nest discovered
in the financial statement made by the Right lion.
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when it
was said he had recanted his former opinions. What
did it amount to but a statement of facts ?
—(Cheers from the Opposition.) It amounted to a
statement of facts. Why, the inference drawn from
that statement was ridiculous! The Right Honourable
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer merely
stated the success of the late Right Hon. Baronet Sir R.
Peel's financial policy, and because ho had done so it
was said that he had withdrawn his former opinions in
reference to the agricultural interest—an interest that
was treated very harshly. Why, the late Right Hon.
Baronet was not even the originator of that principle. It
was adopted in respect to omnibuses, when the fares
were reduced from 6d. to 2d. and id. And also in res-
pect to books, as for example, the "Penny Cyclopedia."
Although the experiment might be considered suc-
cessful it could not be denied but that much hardship
and injury was inflicted upon certain classes by those
changes. The party with which he acted had always
said that the agricultural interest would suffer by the
repeal of those laws affecting agricultural produce, and
the very success of the experiment had strengthened
their position.—(hear.) Their claims were founded
upon common justice, and the experiment having suc-
ceeded they had established their claims.
After a few words from Mr. W. WILLIAMS, which
were inaudible in the gallery,
Colonel SIBTHORL-' said ho confessed ho could not
regret the circumstance of not hying heard one word of
what had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman who spoke

last. lle had the honour trobelcZg to the association
which had been referred to, and he was proud of it. The
resolutions which they passed were far different from
those of the Anti-Corn Law League, who adopted a low,
dirty, sneaking, underhand, disgraceful mode of proceed-
ing.—(Laughter.) Brag was a good dog, but Holdfast
was a better. Birking dogs don't bite—they were not
to be feared.—(Renewed laughter.)
Mr. COBDEN roso to put a question to the Hon.
Member for South Essex (Sir E. N. Buxton). That
Hon. Baronet had a notice on the paper fora Bill he
(Mr. Cob•lon) considered of a most abominable character.
It was one which proposed to recognis3 the treating of
county electors. Such a measure, he thought, was an
insult to the House. Ho wished to ask the Hon. Baronet
whether, in case he could not bring on his Bill until
after eleven o'clock, it was his intention to divide the
House upon it?
Sir E. N. BUXTON said it was certainly his intention
to bring on the Bill this evening►, if he could get the
opportunity. Considering that it was only the first
reading, that there had already been a discussion upon
the motion for leave to bring it in—if ho wore fortunate
enough, as he hoped ho should be, to carry the first
reading to-night, he would take care to give Hon. Gen-
tlemen who were opposed to the measure full opportu-
nity of considering and discussing its merits.—(bear,
hear.) He could make no promise, however, as to
the time when he should bring it ov.
Mr. ROEBUCK begged to give notice that if the Bill
were likely to pass into a law be should move the inser-
tion of a clause providing that the expenses to be
incurred under it should be paid out of the county rates.
The motion for thr. adjournment of the House at its
rising until Monday was then egrecd to, and the House
went into Committee on the
MILITIA BILL.

Mr. WALPOLEmTvetlTl;aiaiesecend blank in the
7th clause, for the number of militia men to be raised
in the first year, be filled up with the words "fifty
thousand."
Sir E. COLUROOKE contended that the proposi-
tion of the Government would involve peculiar difficui
ties, and amongst them the following—that if at the end
of four years an emergency arose which rendered it ne-
cessary to call out the militia, the country would be put
to the heavy expense of training and drilling the men
for six months, in order to get six months' service out of
them, that being the whole remainder of the term of
service which could be demanded of them. Considering,
therefore, that the Bill was in the nature of an experi-
ment, ho thought it would be better to adopt a smaller
limit for the number—say 20,000—to bo called out in
each year, by which means the country would have an
opportunity of judging of the operation of the Bill, and
be able to see what was the character of the men, and
what degree of reliance might be placed in them in case
of danger. He should meet the proposition of the Right
Hon. Gentleman with a direct negative.
Mr. RICH was of opinion that if as many as 50,000
men were raised in the first year, it would materially in-
terfere with the recruiting of the regular army: 20,000
or 25,000 men would bo fully adequate for the purpose
of the Government, and if they attempted to gain more
they would probably defeat their own object, which, es
far as he could gather from the debate of last night, was
to avoid having recourse to the ballot.
Mr. W. PATTEN slid that, if it were intended to
make the raisina. of 50,000 men in the first year com-
pulsory,
ho should' vote against the motion. In his opi-
nion 25,000 would be quite sufficient; but if the Right
Hon. Gentleman consented to reserve to the Government
a discretion, and the 50,000 were not to be compulsory,
he would not object to the insertion of the proposed
words in the clause.
Mr. WALPOLE would repeat the statement that ho
had made last night—that it was intended to make the
clause entirely permissive, and not compulsory; and
with that view he proposed altering the clause by strik-
ing out the word " shall," and inserting in its stead
o may" be raised. What he contemPlatei, therefore,
was to raise 50,000 men by voluntary enlistment—this
year, if he could, and 30,000 men next,year, if he could
—and not to put,the machinery of the ballot in force
at all this year, except in case of an invasion or au
emergency.
Mr. SLANEY thanked the Government for the al-
teration Vey proposed to make, and expressed a hope
that they would carry out the measure in that form, If
they did ho should give them his support.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
Ayes ••• ••• ••• .. 135
Noes ... 61
Majority ... ••• -74
The blank was accordingly filled up with the words
" fifty thousand."
On the motion that the next blank in the clause be
filled up with the words " thirty thousand,"
Mr. M. GIBSON objected. He wished to know
why, in the case of the militia, they departed from tho
constitutional principle observed in passing the army
estimates—viz., of only providing for the current year
the amount of force required for that year?
Mr. WALPOLE said they had already decided upon
having an established militia force of 80,000 men, some-
what in the character of a reserve, and to prevent the
great inconvenience to the country of raising so largo a
body of men in the first year, they proposed to raise
it in two sections ; 50,000 men the first year, and
30,000 men the next year. They had already voted the
whole force of 80,000 men, and the section for the first
year of 50,000 men; and he could not see what objection
there was to voting the 30,000 for the second year.
Mr. WAKLEY said the measure was the most pre-
posterous and unnecessary one ever proposed, and ho
thought that gentlemen on that (the Opposition) side of
the House at least had a right to hear from the Noble
Lord (Lord J. Russell), whom they bad stood by as long
as they could squeeze anything out of him fur the people,
what were the special grounds upon which ho considered
a Militia Bill necessary? As for any apprehension from
France, it was preposterous; for the people of that coun-
try had settled down to like tho President of the Repub-
lic; and there was not the slightest ground to apprehend
any disturbance in that quarter. It was, therefore, little
better than an insult to the people of France to tell them
that we must add 80,000 men to our military forces, in
order to prepare ege,inst an aggression which we sup-
posed they were likely to make upon us.
Lord J. RUSSELL did not wish to trouble the Com-
mittee on the present occasion, or indeed upon any occa-
sion while the Bill was going through Connnittee. lle
had stated before the House had
that he was ready to vote for the tonillegionintog CintirlomCom-
mittee, but entertaining objections to so many of the
clauses, ha wished to take as little part as possible in the
discussions in Committee, and accordingly he had not
given a single vote on any clause in Csrninitte—(Hear,
ihneathr)o—pnasosriodgid
of
fe wishthis to embarrass the Government
Bill through Committee. Bat
the lien. Gentleman asked him to state the general
grounds.--.

Mr. WAKLEY—No,
grounds. no; the precise and particular
L u.d J. RUSSELL—The groand3 en which ho thought
the Bill necessary. The demand of the lion. Gentleman
and his friends seemed most unreasonable, for retdly, the
grounds which they asked him to state were, in tact,
till; the (imminent of Fl4llOO Wdz3 SO hostile t 0 U 5 that

we naght expect immediate hostilities; that those hosti-
lities could not be delayed b lemd a le wog Ica, and,
therefore, that we ought to have a great armament int-
medietely raised. But that would be, in his view, not
a prudent course for the House or the Government to
pursue. No doubt a great rrmarnent was necessary if
there was an appearance of immediate hostilities, or
an immediate prospect of an invasion; but he saw no
such immediate prospect. But he could say, generally,
that considering the ware which had taken place
between this country and our near and power-
ful neighbour, we ought to make such a fair
and moderate preparation for defence us would
enable the Government to be prepared, on any occa-
sion that might take place, to maintain the houotir and
dignity of the country. Upon that subject ho bad cer-
tainly nothing more to say than ho had had in 1848, at
which time he had thought some mere preparation re-
quisite than existed at the time. The House and the
country, however, had not thought it necessary. But in
the present year ho sill held the opinion which ho had
held in 1848, and he thought it was desirable to make
some preparation. It was the duty of any Government
more especially to ca'l tee attention of the House of
Commons to a subject of this kind, because the people
naturally said if there should be any danger—any pros-
pect of war hereafter—they should hold the Government
responsible if there was not a sufficient force to meet
that danger. For it was for them (the Government) to
propose the amount of force deemed requisite, and for
the people to accept that amount of force or not With
respret to any immediate preare et of hostilities, he raw
no such prospect.—(Hoar.) As to the conduct of the Pre-
sident of the French Republic, he need not discuss it
with reference to his own country; bht with respect to
this country, he did not think that ho entertained any
hostile intentions towards it. He came, then, to the
general danger which they knew existed—that they had
been at war in former times—that they had been four
times involved in hostilities within the century—
and that there were various subjects relating
to our interests, and the interests and safety of our
allies, which might bring on hostile discussions. Then,
as to the mode, supposing there was any hostile dis-
cussion to take place with France, such as the ques-
tions raised of late years about Tahiti or Greece, and
that it led to such a state of things that peace could
be no longer preserved, was the country in such a state
that we ought to bo satisfied with our position for
defence? lie thought not. He had got a return there
of the amount of our forces at home on the Ist of Ja-
nuary, 1851, and it appeared there were 28,344 men—
cavalry, guards, and infantry—in Great Britain, and
22,567 men in Ireland. He did not think that
was a force sufficient, if hostilities were to break
my; nor that a force *could be so immediately
,supplied as to place this country in a state of safety.
Now, the lion. Gentleman and those who agreed with
him meant that if there were evident preparations by
France for an invasion of this country—if they made
upon us demands impossible to accede to—that then we
should begin to make preparations. That, ho thought,
would be very late, and they should have made prepara-
tion before. The force which he (Lord J. Russell) had
proposed for that purpose was a local militia—namely, a
force that could be raised partly by the ballot, and partly
by volunteering, that should be confined to men so young
that it was not probable they should be married men;
that they should not be obliged to leave their country,
except in cases of invasion or imminent danger; and, in
such cases, service not to be continued, in the first in-
stance, for more than' six months, or, at any rate,
not beyond a year; that, with these conditions and
limitations, the ballottieg for the militia was practi-
cable. The Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton
(Lord Palmerston) proposed to alter the title of
the Bill before it was brought in, and, as he (Lord
J. Russell) understood, with the intention of making
the force ono of a totally different kind. If it had
been a proposition merely to alter the title, the proper
time for that would have been at the end of the stages of
the Bill. But the Noble Lord had taken a different
course, and declared that the local militia force was
liable to great objections, and he raised the special ob-
jection that the proposed militia did not comprise
militia for Scotland. and Ireland as well as for England.
It was evident to him that the proposal of the Noble
Lord would totally alter the character of the force, and
he (Lord J. Russell) had therefore declared that he could
not consent to be a party to introducing a 13111 for the
regular militia; and that if such a Bill were introduced
by any other Member of the House, he should feel him-
self at liberty to oppose that Bill upon the second read-
ing. If it were a mere change of the title of the Bill, he
would not have taken that course. But the proposed
change was a moat material one, and so the Noble Lord
the Member for Tiverton thought, or ho would not have
taken so unusual a course on the question of the change
of the title of the Bill. lie considered it in
the same light as if ho proposed to introduce a
Bill to extend the suffrage of Parliamentary
voters, and it were proposed by another Member to
establish universal suffrage instead. He could not have
accepted such a change; he would have rejected it. A
Bill was then brought in by the present Ministers, which
clearly carried into effect the objects of the regular mi-
litia. It contained provisions which had been considered
by the former Government, and had been rejected by
them. It had appeared to them that the plan of a re-
gular' militia must have this objection to it—that if they
founded it upon the ballot, the attempt to enlist men as
soldiers to serve for five years would be so great a hard-
ship that it would break down before it was brought
into operation, and that bad accordingly happened to
the ballot now. Then there was the proposal to obtain
men by volunteer enlistment, and that was only to
be effected by giving a bounty, which would not
bring a class of men likely to mske good soldiers,
unless kept as regular soldiers of the line, and under
the regular discipline of' the army. Such was the
way in which the matter had appeared to them and the
present plan appeared to him liable to those objections;
and he was waiting to hear from the Right Hon. Gentle-
man how it was he expected the force to work. As to
what had been raid about the Government of Franco
tilting offence at our using precautions to defend our
own shores, he could no eeo how any offence could be
taken by a country which had upwards of 300,000
soldiers embodied in a standing army, when we only
propose to add to our army of 50,000 men, a reserve
force of 80,000 for the defence of our own country.
Whatever objection could be taken to the militia force
that did not certainly form any ground. He thought
further that if possible they should try and succeed in
getting by the bounty settled inhabitants of a district, so
as to avoid unsettled vagrant persons, who would bo at-
tracted merely by the 6/. bounty, which would be a large
sum to them. Ile adverted to the matter because he was
told the Secretary at War would make regulations on the
matter, a course which he thought unsatisfactory, because
in all matters of that kind Parliament had always taken
especial care that there should be clauses and provisions
in the Bill which Parliament itself would recognise, and
see their effect carried into operation. It should he seen
that the 80,000 man who were to be trained to arms
were trustworthy ment—not only men upon whom they
could rely when the enemy was at their gates, but who
would be in all ordinary times men of loyal and good
conduct. It might be said that that was- casting dis-
trust upon the people of England. 'But nothing could
be more absurd than such an answer. To guard against
unworthy characters being attracted into the militia by
a bounty of Gt. per man was not to distrust the people of
England, who were numbered by millions, no more than
it was to distrust the people of this metropolis because
they locked their doors at night. If they went to Ep-
som Downs on the 26th of this month, they would find
there the best of gentry, yeomanry, and labourers, who
would go there for a day's amusement, but at the same
time there would be many persons amongst them who
were of a very different description, and whom he would
be sorry to see in the militia. He trusted, then, before
the Bill had passed, the Right Hon. Gentleman would
see the propriety of introducing a provision removing
the matter out of the hands of the Secretary at War.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the Noble Lord
had drawn them aside from the point before the Com-
mittee, for the purpose of showing there was nothing
inconsistent in his conduct now and on a former occasion
on the question. But the difference between the local
and the general militia was well understood, and what
the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton proposed was,
that as the force which the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell)
had proposed was in efnct the regular militia, that it
should be so called. The immediate question, however,
before the Committee, was that the blank be filled up
with the words "30,000 men," and having admitted the
80,000 men and the 50,000 men, he could not seo how
they could object to the 30,000.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought the difference between
the local and regular militia was sufficiently distinct as
to induce him not to proceed with the Bill. One of the
great faults found with his proposal was, that he did
not extend the militia to Scotland and Ireland; and be
said that he could not bring in such a Bill, because he
knew not what would be required. But besides that,
every regular Militia Bill contains the clause of service
for a certain number of years. Considering this cliff:r-
anee so great, he said he should oppose the Bill, and
he did oppose it. Having been defeated on the second
reading he had taken no further part in the discussion;
but yet the Hon. Gentleman accused him of endeavour-
ing to do indirectly that which ho would not directly.
That was not justice.
Mr. WAKLEY said, whatever might bo the short-
comings of the Noble Lord, no one attributed to him
meanness or trickery in the conduct of public business.
He might have failed to come forward, but he never
broke his pledges; and from one end of England to the
other he boro the character of an honest man. The
Noble Lord was a Reformer when others were Tories;
and he' (Mr. Wakley) well remembered what a fearful
thing was the spirit of Toryism—filling the gaols and
destroying the best citizens—when the Noble Lard op-
posed himself to its progress. Ho regretted, therefore,
that the Noble Lord had not gone on as be had
n begun,ihe
for he had the ball at his feet,
benefactor of his country. The Hon. and
the
eeaornld
Bailey
and might have beede
Gen-
tleman had made a speech more fitted
Cfoormtl33oll9* he
atmosphere than for tho House of Commons;
of that Right
(Mr. Wakley) repudiated the insinuation
lion. Gentleman, that he had askedrafaovtiovuorss ofea sttheenNhotile
Lord. The imputation
not.°f
.8 °tat fi
stl
iaown officerfirsta
nodf
then the Crownut aer
under a Free-trade Administration
h e
influencedr ) b ut
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ye
a Protectionist Administration--(Hear,
persons
found it was always the case
improper motives. themselves took every opportunity of
bringing the salons of others down to their own low level.
Sir F. TEIESIGER disclaimed all intention of attri-
buting motives to the Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. WAKLEY, under these circumstances, begged
the Hon. Member's pardon.
Alderman SIDNEY said that numbers of men of
property with whom he had spoken were surprised the
Bill should meet with such opposition in the House. The
general opinion among the Noble Lord's constituents was
that he had completely lost himself by his course in re-
spect to the Bill. He (Mr. Alderman Sidney) voted for
the Bill, not because he desired war, but because he
wished fa peke, Jae did 114.4 believe `here Rae ny fear