The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-22 00:00:00

cumstsnces, your Lordships should refrain from inter-
fering in it, and your Lordships would do well to con-
sider the matter before you appoint the Committee; and
I desire, at all events, that before the Committee enters
upon the subject they should have before them all the
information that can be given.
The Earl of HARDWICKE said the questions brought
before their Lordships by the Noble Duke as proper to
be catered into were such as he himself entirely con-
curred in thinking were most essential. It was certainly
necessary to discover what the secret W2S (if there was
cue), and whether it would be available for the public
service. It was to investigate these questions the Com-
mittee was to be appointed. In no former inquiry had
the nature of the mechanism, or the composition to be
used is the invention, been described. Captain Warner
had certainly tried some experiments, which he (Lord
Hardwicke) had witnessed, and he had seen a boat most
powerfully constructed blown into fragments not larger
than his arm. But the committee of officers did not
know how this was done; and for the purpose of dis-
closingdhis, Captain Warner consented to come before a
Committee of their Lordships, and to state of what the
invention was composed. The Committee would be
supplied with all the information available on the sub-
ject, and could call before them officers whose opinion
would be valuable.
Lord MONTEAGLE said he was the person to whom
Captain Warner—
Lord PANTO—Not Captain, Mr. Warner.
Lord MONTEAGLE—He was the person to whom
Mr. Warner had first applied upon the subject, and the
two great points pressed upon the Government of Lord
. Melbourne were the marvellous invisible shell, and the
marvellous " long range," both of which he had been
satisfied were delusive. When Mr. IL Vivian had asked
Mr. Warner if he could blow up the works at Gibraltar
—ho said "Oh yes, and the rock too." Now, when a
man said such things as that, surely it amounted to ab-
solute insanity. Now, he considered the appointment
of this Committee upon such a claim would be a most
monstrous and unjustifiable precedent. A Committee
of their Lordships would not -be a tribunal comparable
to the committee of general officers who had already
decided on the invention. And even if there were less
doubt than there was as to the valuelessness of the al-
leged invention, he should object to taking the subject
out of the responsibility of the Government. Sir How-
ard Douglas had examined the project and communicated
his opinion against it to the late Sir Robert Peel, who
had replied in the following letter:—
"My dear Sir Howard,--I have read the speech you
were good enough to send me. It is quite conclusive,
but I did not require such a demonstration of the char-
latanrie of Mr. Warner; and le limply regret the vela-
, able time which has been thrown away upon this man
and his projeotoisl hope Lord John Russell will read the
speech before the Committee.—Most truly yours,
"ROBERT PEEL."
What wodld be the consequence of appointing a Com-
mittee of this kind (for which there was no precedent)
on matters purely military, or relating to the public ser-
vice? The admission of a Parliamentary "case" thus
implied acted as a bill of exchange to be discounted in
- the City of London. Mr. Warner had already attempted
to use the invention for that purpose, and had even of-
fered to traffic with in foreign countries.
Earl TALBOT said he had not intended discourtesy
to the Noble Duke in not giving him special notice of
the motion, having placed it on the paper in the ordinary
way. Mr. Warner had not refused to disclose his invention
on former occasions. It gave him pain to be opposed by the
Noble Duke, but he believed the Noble Duke acted entirely
under a misapprehension. The real fact was that the
invention had never been inquired into at all; and, how-
ever he might be exposed to the ridicule or censure of
the Noble Lords opposite, ho declared that he believed
it ought to be inquired into, and ho would do his daty
fearlessly by demanding inquiry. He was quite willing
that the Committee should comprise the Commander-
in-Chief, the Master-General of the Ordnance, and the
First Lord of the Admiralty; but the names he had se-
lected comprised also Lord Combermere, the Marquis of
Anglesea, Lord Hardwicke, the Duke of Richmond,
Lord Saltoun, Lord Seaton, the Duke of Newcastle,
and Lord Ellesmere. After the ridicule which had
been cast upon the inventor as;a charlatan, Mr. Warner
had a right to claim an inquiry to set his character
right; and, as a Peer of Parliament, who had been
charged with abetting an imposture, he felt that he had
a right to demand the inquiry, especially as ho believed
the matter affected the defences of the country.
The Duke of WELLINGTON explained that he had
not intended to impute any discourtesy to his Noble
Friend, but he-had not seen the notice on the paper. It
was impossible that ho should serve on the Committee,
and he hoped he should be excused.--(Hear, hear.)
Earl GREY said he thought that, for the reasons
stated by the Noble Duke, the Committee ought not to
be appointed. He had been quite surprised to find that
the motion for its appointment had been carried. All
departments of the Government were continually beset
by projectors, and if they could obtain the sanction of
some Committee, on inadequate grounds, they would
procure advances of money, as Mr. Warner had al-
ready obtained. If an inquiry wore necessary it ought
to be conducted under the auspices of the Executive Go-
vernment. If their Lordships had fallen into a gross
blander in consenting to this Committee, let them got on
of it as soon as. they could, and he therefore recom
mended that the nomination of the Committee' be pea
paled sine die.

Tho Earl of WICKLOW said the Noble Lord opposite
had lost sight altogether of the difference between the
present and the former inquiries that had taken place.
The inquiries hitherto made had only been to elicit
the operations of the machinery, but there was no power
of going into the merits of the inventions, or of the in-
gredients with which those instruments were prepared.
Now, for' the first time, Captain Warner proposed to
state what was the nature and composition of these in-
ventions. The tribunal was, however, objectionable.
Had there ever occurred a single instance in that coun-
try in which the inquiry before a Select Committee had
not become public? Every member of their Lordships'
House had a right to go into that Committee, and put
questions to the witnesses, and do anything but vote.
Could a secret laid before a Committee of that nature be
reserved, or was it net likely that it would soon become
known to the whole world?—(Hear, hear.) If once
known in England, it would eoon be known in France,
and would be of as much advantage to their enemies as
to themselves. He thought a case had been made out
for inquiry, but agreed with the Noble Earl that it should
be one before a limited number of scientific persons, and
not before a Select Committee. But if there was no
alternative between no inquiry and one before that
House, then he thought it should be limited to three or
five scientific Peers, and that it ought bo to all intents
and purposes a Secret Committee.
The Earl of WID'►CHILSEA objected"to the appoint-
ment o 7 any Committee of Inquiry, believing the whole
affair to be a perfect bumbug.—(A. laugh.) He thought
the object of most of these projectors and inventors was
to extract a certain sum of money from the country.
The Noble Earl (Talbot) thought that it was a very
great and important discovery, but the simplest manner
of testing it would bo to let Captain Warner commu-
nicate with the officers appointed by the Ordnance, who
were the best judges of these matters. He thought it an
extremely ' inconvenient precedent that those matters
should be brought under the consideration of a Com-
mittee of their Lordehips' House.
The Earl of ALBEMARLE did not think the con-

duct of Captain Warner such as to entitle him to any
great consideration from a British Legislature. His
Noble Friend behind him was under a mistake in sup-
posing that these great inventions mad experiments wore
to be confined to this country. When he (the Earl of
Albemarle) was private secretary to Lord John •Russell,
the matter came before him, and they had a signifi-
cant hint from Captain Warner that if his demands
were not satisfied, his secret might fall into the hands
of those who were the enemies of the country;
and in a pamphlet published by him he found this pas-
sage:—" I now consider myself a free agent, with full
liberty to go where I please with my inventions, and sell
them to any foreign nation I may think proper." The
Noble Earl said on the former occasion that the inven.
lions would supersede the Militia Bill. If that were so,
ha would say let him, sell them to the enemy; provided
he used them at the time of an invasion, he was satis-
fied they would be like the elephants at the battle of
Hydaspes, and prove more terrible to friends than to
foes.—(hear.)
The Earl of FOSSE did not think the matter was
one for a Committee of Inquiry, and he wai not
speeking co randora, because he wa3 perfectly familiar
with all those devices, not for the purposes of war, but
for the amusement of large numbers of people. There
was nothing in those experiments that could not be
done without the least difficulty; without any agent but I
common gunpowder. He believed the Noble Earl had
been in a great measure imposed upon, and that the Go-
vernment' officers were not satisfied with what had been
done. He was constantly persecuted by projectors of
all sorts, some of whom believed they had discoved
the perpetual motion, and others bringing for-
ward teicatific inventions already known; but
the only thing like novelty that was brought before him
was by an Irish Itibbomnan.—(Great laughter.) It
appeared thaw on various occasions the banks of the
canals were being destroyed; a great deal of inconve-
nience and mischief was the result. Tho motive, of
course, was to obtain employment in the repairs. At
last oee man turned approver, and divulged the secret;
but the stipendiary magistrate before whom the state-
ment was made did not altogether like to ace the experi-
ment tried. He had accordingly directed the man to
perform the operation, and the charge was laid and the
mine prepared, but there was no fuze—that was the
peculiarity; but it was supplied by a mixture of quick
lime, oatmeal, and nitric acid, and in about four or four
and-a-half hours after that mixture was applied the mine
exploded. Upon asking the man where he got his in-
formation, ho had succeeded in tracing it to France. The
only reward the man had obtained was a free passage
to Americeu.--(Great laughter, which lasted for some
minutes.) Knowing that the question had been already
investigated—knoeitig that it had been fully inquired
into, he should feel himself constrained to vote for the
postponement of the Committee.
Earl TALBOT said all he asked was a full, fair, and
impartial inquiry, and he did not care before whom. If
their Lordentpe thought it advisable to postpone the
Committee he should assent to it; but at the same time
he would reserve to himself the option of naming the
Committee at a future time; or ho would make this pro-
position. that the same officers should be again appointed
by the Government to look into the whole of the matter.
—(fleer, hear.) He would leave the case entirely in the
hands of their Lordships.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE suggested that it
belonged to the Crown, and not to their Lordships, to
pronounce upon what changes should be effected in the
British armaments.

Tao. -ran of. DERBY said the Government was
anxious to do justice to Mr. Warner and everybody
else. Neither he nor any member of the Govern-
ment bed pronounced any opinion upon the merits'
of the iuveation. Air : iagltiry was . asked for before