The Sun.
London, England, 1852-04-21 00:00:00

PrTTTg 14rg

40 e an-----
NM Meet the difficulty by' the present proposition?—' to cause an inquiry to he made into the conduct of Mr.
lisps' hear.) letink the H. Gentleman, with the Bamstt at Ktesingen, and the whole matter to bestaitret.-
Ihe entertaten was justified in bringing forward vestigated.
.. question—with his views I think he would be taking Lord J. RUSSELL said, ho trusted .that the
I:nhistifiable and legitimate course if he proposed to leg's- moot lost made by the Right flon.our.ableGe;rderata.itearnpoopri:
t,'n the subject. But there ia this appeal to the pre-
e 8 superior, -e teem ceestilerabie
Ithink the Hon. d Learned Gentl or - non of the Members of that Haase _
__ . .
an or, - Gentle or s
posits would be the means of relieving the
la (Wee with me that it should first be had recourse euabarrasstrient.—alei.
a 'subject upon which this
tiOu'ear•) If be thinks no such ower of appeal Bible to deny that this. WO.B
'itli then.
wttst feel that I imagine the Hon. and f- 6 1::,-en!-d Gentleman House had a right to der:abenadr.a)n extipeletnbba:t;:linlitnolH: fira.crinPeu°olsdd.
itottuto. - nbet,tagree- in. the opinion exPressed by
tohopsnr cope with the stiblecten"(H'ans hear.) But.
.1.
_IM. ' ber for the 'University of .Oxford (Sir R. H.
einwhenit appeared to him 'that he would- exclude
lin aaou_n enS Ettyaelf. merely. to the motion of the Hon. g
.any right of inquiry in. respect to
tstitilTnarnect Gentleman, without wishing to viva any thisn l'HOnse from
nature.—(Hear, near.) This House
410:%-u.cautti"hteofetrheehtnerits of the -important case he has matters of - this
cis. Far be it from me to vindicate the was a party to the passing of the Act of Uniformity, and
ittlao, of. any clergyman . who can be shown to have at thathe te!imeseibtPo_rtocite,sitteenteuDreissbeenttearsneweeorecmatebmblieeresmoigibtt,
1 aced in the manner alleged against Mr. Bennett. and
(No no.) But at all events, the Act
not presume, •to ...offer any. opinion • on. their;
liVrttsubjent, for I feel that this is not thel tributnhe hofavileilliftoramity• hiving' been passed by them, this House
had a right to ask whether the persons who were ap- .
Isa„,,a_i h. o dectde the Ca3e.--(H bear.) feel.
atennvoeutence of the House listening to the afatemabentyof, pointed ministers were faithful members of the
Church of England—(hear, hear)—or whether, in
anlin and
.Learned Gentleman,. made with
rev i,m.
fact, they did not belong to some other Christian coma
stop willing to. adant, conscientious y.
la/02n of in.nuiry without power to elicit he uired munity. fieving thus established their right tit make
be unwise such inquiry, he owned he felt the•greatest difficulty in
Itit'rni_ attoon is a, mockery to which it.
ata",solst use of Common to lend
.siselicwalalkits ef the ut- proceeding to exercise it—a. difficulty arising both in
y should be real• respect to the mode •in which the inquiry was to be ex-
am" Jousn.portance .that euele an. inquiry
11'74anent, and .that a Commission
_should have com- ercised, and to the consequences to which it might uln-
a% In nower to elicit the truth.— (Hear, hear.) Ido mately lead. He could not bat feel that if a Commission
ein.""in, therefore, the Honnand Learned Gentleman were apeointed, which had no greater powers than were
stleitik it. necessary, to press this particular reselu- now allowed to the Crown . and ehich could not be had
which I admit he was perfectly justified in bringing without a special Act of Parliament, they might rather
great imp trtance to provoke hostile refusals te answer, and make dissen. sions-
rardt as it refers to a subject of
4 %asses of her Mesty's subjects.—(Hear, hear.) It between this branch of the Legislature and a
Itlite . ' ' l'that the conduct which impossib e he has al- the clergy of the Church of England.—(H heir.)
Atar,
Lt "bed should not b the subject of comment and explans- He could not but fear, also, lest after such interferie,nkcee-
portion of
ell; andthatw heatever.enay be the merit* of the case, the remedy would be found insufficient. Ilebt•-
(Iti•n for:
Le discussiets sheulct not be productive of public advan- i wise, the want of that assistance which they
7o• But I must to the subject with which I set crier times, in the presence of those Memberstoofot_ohne
nte-that a remedy for such a, grievance as is here al House who were particularly qualified to give an
to opinion
egad either aloes or does not. exist.,
.If the remedy,ex- upon such a question. They wanted information
th 'as I think it does, i'n, an appeal to :he Archbishop, those points upon which the Right Hon.d
fl° Rouse will riot I thing, sanction' the issuing of a Chancellor of the Exchequer expressohimself in d
Gentleman,:utht:t
ineission:-; of ••ijcluitlr which can- have no - ow r and hesitation—namely, how fir an app
ea would lie
iuoatetli.cnit and
.secureear., they.,
oinefor.meation it wishes fromc the Bishop of Bath and Wells to the Archbishop
tkisdal does, exist,i' •.ka h
tft er
.haod, no of anterb.urand how ftabristhketloadw. could be
m obsrtousgehyt
. y ...oee existe it surely is theduty of Parliament to, to bear in matters of.
61onslate on Ihe'stibject;' and provide a remedy. But a that they . were, in a great degree, uninformed
ontroissionnsucir as that proposed, points.what the
In respect to
en-
Posed, without the neces- upon those
"1 powers to fulfil its task, .would disappoint public Right Honourable Gentleman opposite bad last m
stpectetion, and whilst it would lead to protracted dis• tioned, the circumstances .under which the case came
;II:lions, would not secure the settlement we desire.-- befere the Bishop of , Bath and Wells were at present •
ear.) And let me also press u on the attention of unknown to the House. It might be said by some Hon.
',e House that by acceding to the on
of the Hon: Members that that furnished an additional reason for
Z'l, Learned Gentleman we should be only evading the inquiry. He concurred in than opinion, but atit theter,oesamde.
ilicebulty. We should be establishing a precedent time he owned he felt the greatest hesitation p
wyou may be sure would-be tound _a-source ot per- mg to glees Tote in favour of an address•to the Crown .
entr difficulty' seed eMharrassment.--,(11,,Ar, hear.) lot.- an inanity that was to begin with the House of Com-
tloll adopt. this resolution I cannot understand how mons• ' It, as the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last
awes clergyman, could he instituted to a living with- said, it was a proper subject for inquiry, and that there
Housee-
law_ o Casmaions interfering with and chat-. ought to be a full inquiry made into it, be- felt the better
tonalg his induction,—(Hear, hear.) In every in course would be to wait until some of the Ministers of
re what would you do? • You would address her the Crown were able to ascertain. more o f the tncts, and
ttle:t3n praying cher to institute an inquiry into the to obtain such explanation as they might think fit to
ta4 IltY of the induction.- So that if you adopt this ask for in the most friendly spirit, and not with a view
61'4" You will establish mischievous precedent to anything like accusation and impeac.hment. It they
linksit"ltneteeffetig a , beneficial . settlement of. the made such inquiry, they would then be in a much better
f•Etear,s, and difficulties of which you complain position to consider in their places in the Reuse of Com-
thane near.) I.trust, therefore, the Elon. and Learned' as ons what course, under the circumstances of toe case,
Veto man will he. satisfied with having amply, cens• they ought to take. He
of
dnot but tbiek that it
pf 3', find ably brought before the house a subject might be finally the duty t e Ministers of the Crown
111:,e,t7 great importance, and that he is satisfied —net to make new laws upon the subject—but to pro•
Saft;',,a! Persons connected with ith these transactions can- vide for the more easy operation of the laws already in
it '4l Placing, their conduct fairly h'4ore the Public. existence. Those wno. were most learned on the sub-
thtitll%t that
,the
ithe .fion. and Learned Gentleman, feelieg ject had informed him
.that the. . tenets of . the
%Nit result of this discussion must be '0 hay- en sc- gnsetest diffisulty were in ascertaining what those
ittkllket"cobiplete view of all the circumstances of the means were which should be retorted to for d re-
sn 4etione-thet it is his duty, owing to the position he dress. The whole subject being one of transcen ant
h tlll
~,'"t tame, in thire question, ther to have recourse to importance, and fraught with consequences so serious, he
Met u° which the law supplies, or it the law sup- should certainly, for his own part, be inclined to .hesitate
-Ii I
retuadY, to propose one to the Legislature. I before giving a formal v• to upon the subject, ant as the
present t ,ttust the Hon. and Learned Gentleman will not case atstood he ttwught it better to leave the
1Y h
resolution which I feel sure would matter in the hands of the Ministers of the Crown to
stl°,,4,ltsiteeel:fte .geclivi6a a
uanitewitle great inconvenience and ember- consider what steps should be taken, and whether any
our future deliberaiona. I beg, therefore, more facts could be ascertained to be laid betore the
18411'2:e the Previous question. House. Until these steps were taken he could not
goal v ERNEY h •ped the Hun. end Learned Mem- assent to be a twin to an address to the Cro an.
'Wee d not accept the invitation and advice ju t ten- Mr. H. DRUMMOND seid, a question had been
as, to a •
ohn prepoenttnn bitt would persist in his motion.. It asked whether subjects of this nature could properly be
Oa one pint it was evident
lethal tederous to maintain that the head of the brought. before the House.
the proper tribunal to discuss
Ininttituted n° Power to cause the necessary inquiry to that this license alone was
•stist %lade nand be altogether deprecated the question. such matters)? and that was, in asserting the rights of
n".tr lair. jos the manner proposed.. the laity against the usurpation of the priesthood. He
ti'Stlsna ANGUS fully agreed with the Honourable was 130 W contending against things, and not against
:Lilo, no(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) that the persons. He cared hare whether a man called himself
ilifi'llpoefonth°,tintn. one was not a fitting tribunal to adiudi• a Papist or a Protestant—he was against that man who
,t. prteci
its subject, and that if hey once admitted said that the priests were the Church.—(Hear, hear.)
nt!!tiee orPtitts that a grievance with respect to the in- Whatever might be the lapse of time that had occurred,
b '
plt-,7ght befor.Part!icular individual could elegitimately the original law was unquesuonebly this, and he believed
a esibie - them, occasions on grounds more or less that the present law now was, that no person could be
(lie would be a
iik. ,r, bear _ . 01111 for
d preferring similar claims. appointed over any flock in. the Church without that
o 'tease httn",_•) •,Grenting for a moment that a prima flick by some means testifying their acquiescence to such
so;s:ilets.titthee :::: wadeout for inquiry, he defied tht-m apponament. That was the
'St thats" tete Position of he Right Honourable Gentle- point they had to maintain,
and unless they maintained than all their motions. and
atlppone;reeOhltioteowoid not end there. The adoption commissions were utterl useless.
otte . ing the efth,ould be a mere brutum fWmen, for Mr. SPOONER thought that the case would.be much .
se'uPP th-'—es tee 'sttion to be appointed, did any worse, and the consequences most serious, if, when they
Lae branch
wOeueid--8-neti4e, pug implicated in this did- were told the facts which were then disclosed, they, the
goose ot th'e Ili" to a tribunal issued by only Commons of England, were to say that these facts should
8-- - „cable coii,—_"g6l4ture?-01.-ar, hear.) The nut be entertained by them—they would meet the me-
toe, an,„,`,"'sua did not consist, as .an tion at once with the previous question.—(ileac.) He
,tnoers of t sna
h a uer. had
'" were the tiburch of supposed, entirely of agreed with the Right lien. Gentleman the Secretary for
41 de_. .not squall., e_ _e England —(Hear, hear)—and the Colonies that the inquiry was one that ought to be
is:erelduucewitralinatsrgiih:efhitoltnterested in maint sluin the ter- raised, and must be disposed of. But was it di-posing of
to which any
(Eisen hear.) Theye it to say that he would not entertain it ? He said fear-
ttiarehtni
ri submit English churchman lessly that that was nut the way the c)un try would cep-
it his faith or his practice as a sent to have such an important question treated The
here'4he ho
h*4eatii) The House consisted. po_ssibly turn which the discussion had taken exhibited a tendency
til'etiletlinachilYo'f at
411
e,tsed and believed it did, of a majority of mem-, to leave out the main points submitted to them. The,
En
,:events, and consistently attached fahcetsHof the case, which, according to the statement of
Hon. Member for Cottermouth, could be easily
theta sheorae of deland; but would it be contended t
IstesePerties could "Itnons was a tribunal to which provned, weron.
Ethoegslea—o
.t,hat a professed clergyman of
0 who was dismissed by his
It 'm Mr n appeal? Who in that House repre- the Church t
Thl°l) pot' a. utehnttls,.,ree parishioners of Frame, the bishop, or rather whose resignation was obtained upon
terms, which conveyed the opinion of the
etilorsolottee ;aus`l "'ells, and the Bishopparotft,eLiotnts?,
ninind the guilt of the certain
-Bishop of - London of his being unfaithful to his
owe;.
to Church, had been living abroad for several months,
non Bided ato.tutilitlencate. The. faces as set forth were
(SjP°lttioa ." " .d Rot be met with en antagonistic during which time he was in the daily habit of at-
41rt in authorised to be presented—(Bear)—and tendingthe Roman Catholic masses; that that man
he
de was now acting as a Protestant clergyman, having been
Insta`iii,aehart,ge Lt?.. :.wl„ of opinion that the Rousem
becoming the instituted by a Protestant bishop to preside over a Pro-
le.% d°' suce•44. dutyoana prevent its besot.
at once testaut congregation.—(Hear.) He asked whether such
lan ilisin, PtlsSious in future, by procee ing
id "tot' tll whether this motion should be enter- a statement as that made in that House was sufficient to
justify them in voting for the previous question? He,
1-11,,t2e°,....8.4. 4:`lt'Ve 'Tv' lal le he was of opinion that the. House for one, could do no such thing; neither could haabsent,
inns' stsent- ought not to b • d an authority on theo- himself from such a division, as he believed others were
Its7o4ld ss-ethecetat.-.rectegnisede made
eas thepower which about to do; that was not his habit. His constituents
kthupportedPrOper, tribunal in motion, end he there- had a right to know his opinions, and their opinions
r the original motion. 1 should be represented by him in that House. If the
it'd' itiati, aIE (amidst cries for a division) also our question go to a division, he must vote for the motion
tor, a mini', ot the moo Member for Ceckermouth. But it was yet
Nlth'ot);!l:eEntWoDuee°.• 4
THl.felt deeply the importance of in the power of the Government to take the proper
%a poised os '4lon. and, as it had
been raised, fully course. They had already gone half way—he' wished
en lapse nte necessity of dealing with it. During that they would go the whole way. He wished them to
"'nein this- ot yeera the
ers of the Constitution by say that they hal made out a strong prima Adze case,
en nonn question couPledwbe settled might heve lapsed into which the House of Cemmons west) •und to inquire;
estakhnon rusty hut depend upon it the country would and they might then ask them to pause in such inquiry.
tlalqi,ln investigation of the subject—(Hear hear)— because they did not think the mode now proposed. was
Vets t-°ugh he desired to.leave to- hee Majes'ty's Go- the moat tflectual one for the purpose of such inquiry—
n, neet th
e"tetsti °manner in which the investigation should be that they themselves would enter into an inquiry, and
Oitiat f he did not think the public would rest satisfied would recommend the Crown to take immediate steps
sine 0 t such investigation. He thought that this ques- far such inquiry, and that they would come to Pasha-
Qoennght to be examined into, and he hoped that the went for additional powers if they thought it necessary
rakela onru'int would be enabled to propose some other to do so, in order to remedy that which was a great
nit o,n; ihquirn than- that moved by the Hon. Member anti a growing evil. That was the course which the
N/01,,a_uckerotith, As an independent Member of that Government ought to take, and not to meet the proposi-
Z;
~and determinedly attached to the Church ot tion by moving the previous question.
ise;❑n. he wee 'sincerely anxious that a full and seerch- Mr. MANGLES said that his Hon. Friend the
the 'lnquiry 'hong be outdo into this matter. He ask• d Member ter Cockermouth did not
.ask the House to
oithtiamtush not.,taianore the proposition before them turn itself into. a tribunal for this inquiry, but merely
kineity, Benagogtfthut:in a°nlo practical meens by which her wished by his proposition to put matter. in
.a propere
klltht be brought to r seem "cal
head of. the .o:lurch channel for a full and searching investigation. . He
d
,Sir n PAKINGTar uP°O the subject.--(Hear.) thought that the real weakness of the Church. .eensistee
no had' ..1 Send he thought that this ea. in the concealment of such facts. In his opinion: h
aO.„, not oil y, . been raised, but it was one which strongest point for an inquiry was whether the- Bishop
of notes) be raised; but having been raise he was of 13- th and Wells did institute Mr. Bennett with the full
Ile anion that it ought to be dealt with,_
(flea;
it
(flea; hear.) knowledge of his recorded unfaithfuleent. He would,
tt:_tad for himself, and he
Fb.:enlieZtivbe.kaP.k.-
1,7_ .of the _ Government.th the sent- however, recommend his Hon. Friend to withdrew his
eteir raliLdv
. -e• that this was a motion, 'as they had received a plain, explicit; acid un-
b ht7tton which:,
int
' heavpeobs was now mistakeable pledge theta bond fide and searching inquiry
titee7t might n°•t' eaelermice to which but at the Ban" would b. institute-f.
titleot cosi one, ,
bia an inquiri instituted
there 'ought on- - Mr. GLADSsaid that they heel heard a long
proe'll,
dab y to,
,e . o A t
the
emu mid
artnledY series of allegations from the Hon. Member for C?cker-
ay 'me .--(Elars hear') '"
Inac_t only as a member odf the Governmente time he must mouth stated with great ability. it was not, in his
above allasa! but as a opinion, at that moment fitting that these allegations
Ittelr, of :that blouse, a
c Caharch of England, it q,
Be and should be examined into. He was bound to say, from
kii,•;ll d member o.' the .
hot, ,re opinioneofter having I' tened with p ..b.iii as his
.a partial knowledge of the case, that he disputed, and
14
...e.mbe il 1
r• for not he
he was ready to confute, many of the allegations
recta? the statement o f the.ll ,n. 51
oiled was not the er-
made by the lion. Member, and to show that he had not
iseieTi that the mode of inquiry p p.
Tcr proposed WiS nut the one iOU èby the I-lon, Member, arid to show that he had not
to they ougui to adopt. U, Willl briefly explainallie even correctly quoted the documents to which he he
they ought to adopt. .--' %"-
the Hon. Meta. 4 ferred. This chal!enee he was ready at that moment to
1)4 fur thiseopinion. He.would call t.
Kona solely 'take uP• The ,ion, Member tells him to- do so. He
tope ej,ttention to the, that his resolutionnbgwould
of Bath do so, and would confine himself only to one case
add e!1 in quaint:o the conduct of. the Ins op
the 1 anthat moment. The Hon. Gentleman stated that the
lint fellas in-b • - Mr. Bstinett to Bisho
smog instituted Pof Bath and Wll •modest rand humble
hen of Prome:—(Hear, hear.) They could not fail to prayer of the • . . e es in a a .
the Bishop innuire, but peutioners, was asked to consider and
Of 44t tier what was already wellknown, that
but refused that the haughty prelate of Bath and Wells
V•itsuall„4,ll4 Wills was not only advanced in years.. to acquiesce. In
,the annne" inspaired in bealth. He Could not vindicate his hand a paeneht t
• Now he (Ur. Gladston,,) held in
Fr m who e , published by a Mr. Crutwell, of
7,it auc.t of thetßiehop but it aeared to,hins that 0
Bennett,
was formed adve
and this Y rse to appointment of
s'ette4ltle—aet wasnot ' the- 'real question which the, Hon. Mr.
t d• •
gentleman. in sootqug the 'memo-
sll -tahn had: ' was, the nal referredo,. istiuctly stated that the of •t
...aged.reteed, The real question, .4.
d was not to consider and inquir „ at prayer 1
s'e‘tid de24d,ucti9l..ar..tenuett at li.issingans which • : : r Ike 8, but It was, not to grant
stitution os sax B
,•",te-41' - (II hear.) The II n• Member the in , , • Bennett, eee inquiry,—(Ileac, earoe 0 • He wanted to know
whether s• to censider and *,quire" nail Qose'rMoutn had stated all the facts of the case wart the same thing ,
institution to Mr. B
•r4ltip„,'", Paritonla •y'- It appeared. to him (Sir J. es to refuse,
mbar in thinkin tehnuntett. liacinicurred with
that q,°l), if i'he. Hen. Gentlemin's statement was true, 1 the Hon.
.pussl etillf a man ehogpretentr allegations were,
kid the" aennett mtist be regarded as a ROMau Catholic, I most ter
action
be a clergyman
of England was in
lann, -re ore entirely urifiL to hold his present appoint- of the Church or in heart a
"--11'.
4
k "mbar th ar,. ar.) But he submitted to the on. mem n
inexpedient
deserved
However in
OuPpeannrat far .as they knew they hut no reason to condign punis • •hment. expedient it was t
the scene of theulogtcal ° wits it -
'hat tker cOrid 0c t of Mr. B 'nnett at Kiseingen make that House
.discussion,
le "'in tSa Bishop • - • B. •B. ' his • , Ih• still a question . which could scarce'
H however,Y be
ex-
• the i• . 04 a at the lime of institution ,t is was
If '2' iv in . --,-.' aisiderattoc. e, rose for
the f g at. greme. On the Contrary, he believsd, l'cluded from their ci _
tithe ante of the- ease his obj.-ction to oil vague or in-
b net% ~. were investigited, that the cir• I the purpose of deolering _
was right that they should know
ont an ce'ff fefs institution to Fr me was the mean;'of 1 d -finite pledges. It - n • as to be. Nothing
utit'''''k (nit 'h - . Fro
-
, the ~ aWentste.harioceuted at Ktssingen.—(Hear n , what the it; o
a motion c illoig upon the
Ind ""ittneof the Hon Member did net t ih the ' el induce him to agree to
the uet of hirr, ,
_.. . . ein. 1 wou •
in knew it would
la_ nestre • '''''
t menet at ..Ktenegen. Looking, term, at Crown to do a formal manner what he . h
at the same time, o
4 EL° ltuvet ie .4 IP inging th. se cases before fail in if it attempted to do it. But, a eine , ..,.
.. nee _ , d—
'seem • en , immens: and making them the 'subject of , admitted that a most serious
tso 'seem in i d id Wells in pro-
Beth an . ,
os st D „, ,t ~St ~os.,unisss under circumsr.,nees of ! newel), whether the Bishop of
~ Fr 0,,,,,
-. make
- L.s.ng necessi; . he 'height it most un
ak, advimsble' ' ' ' Nt B- nett to the livingl
Oft, the mentai -
t.Y, . ceetin,g to in,titute , r. .11law.
fo r°ltie the ' n f Mr. to th 1 • ' 'according to the letter and spirit of the .
hattntioP of • Bennett e tying had acted
the whole conduct
ate he , ttuhject at a; metion—(Rear, hear.) Be- lAs that was the question, of course
li 'eti 4 'at no* ,at ' a ' motion.,-
had fallen' f Bennett. d'
that. It tippeare • then,
lii Ron Gent:/ntittia
he advert , 0 , what
.t Landon,E°M
of Mr. was relevant to
I„,,'*, it no,o lain raspeet to ti e Bishop oof to an
to him, that the Gevernment, instead agreeing.
-"4 an '' °V,Pe4 to come within his own knowledge, address to the Crown must in a friendly spit, make
Nie Poo toettiurit ' lia d' ' b'that there ,
•' - ' '' h '
would enable them
ti dense t .e. 3, . ,eool hot doubt,. ~.
f tie en_ 0 sho,w.',lnit then nonage of the Bishop of Lon- to judge what funher steps should be taken I'n the
ulna upon the &coo •- - e
_.
a s'tn that 1 - ton referred to conveyeo au
- . fur'
f I • f• It that the
strong un matter. Lie t,,r one had fur a ..,ing time •
sighttalts sure am toiiih wove known to the Hon. Gentleman he ecclesiastical law was in a most defective and imperfect
est to 4. a -491 i; Gertgopart would not evince the
condition in respect to a case which, though a rare one, ref ,to
tO Plaitts the Right Reverend was yet a:possible case—namely, that in which it might
6, Oil, e S eandrin4'., ‘... of e
-atom ,-,..,P1...tut5. thstter --(HAar ) Under the Ibe necessary to put the in motion against a Bishop
to„. 'laces iii;_liad' cup • . . ' • .
h4rae to no _ ~ . ntionedeha•eit that the riebt for the purpose of tying him up to his duty. He fully
eine wee not clan prop( ab •
ad? aud Ilene - . nte o 3, the Hoe, gems coecurr-d ill the sus acs tun of •'the Noble Lord the
o, Noah _ pp;l that he w ia
411., latit'l4:resa the House to Met:atter fir Lomm,
"hat hiki
~.uyotk, ~, At, the sauna male` he trusted that Mr. WALrOLE said it was to, 'be deprecated the
"st pooeitis ilia 'Li . • Would
.be ta •nt making the liettle of Common the arena fordiseuesieg
-- - , 60 IT9 e au ow

LI}MD 0

theological subjects if it were at all possible to avoid it.
Ho, however, concurred with the. Right Hon. Gentleman
who had just sat down, that a else had been made out
whack not only invited but demanded inquiry.—(Hear,
hear.) For if any minister be institutedento a benefice
of the Church while he was in fact, or was likely to he,
a member of sews! other Christianeornmunion, it was
state of things which ought not to be. allowed. And if
the law be not strong enough to prevent such an abuse,
it ought to be made strong enough --(1-1-ear, hear.) .The
Hon. Member for Warwickshire (Mr: Spooner) said, by
moving the previous question- they ~ Wore-shelving. the
main proposition; that was not the case. By thaoeurse -
tqbatiwoenr
put. rhis was an important
'shoauklidngnorthneoywwbe,re simply saying that the'
consideration in reference to the motion before the Houie.
Let him call the Ron. Member's ,attention to the facts
connected with it.. A motioh stood on 4.he _notice-book..
for a fortnight•or more, by which it was intimated that..
the Hon. Member for Cockermouth was geeing to cell
attention to the institution of Mr. Bennett to the
vicarage of -Frome. Now, until yesterday the :House .
was not aware of the precise intentien of the Houour--
atio Member- for Cockermouth.—(fltiae, ,hear ) So'
little was he (Mr:Walpole) aware of them, that-he asked
the question of many of his own friends, and they were
utterly unconscious the motion of the Hon. Gentleman
was sOrtout to take the turn it assumed in consequence of:
the notice.given by him last night. Ha mentioned these
facts in common fairness and justice to thosapertioa,who
were implicated by the speech addressed that evening by,
the lion. Member to that House, to show that they
ought to be- allowed a proper.
,opportunity of explaining
the facts and circumstances of the case as far as they.
related to them. He referred to the Bishop of Loudon,
the Bishop of Bath and Wells, and the ,patron ef the
living. Under these circumstances, he asked if thiemoi-,
ing of the previous question was not the proper course
to rake. He would follow it up .hy saying, that in cep-
sequence of the observations of his Noble Friend oppo,
site, supported as they were by the Right Ilinourable
Gentleman the Member for the University of Oxford,
that the Government would-in a friendly spirit institute
such an inquiry as was suggested in reference to the
institution of Mr. Bennett to the living of FCOBIO, and
particulirly in reference to , the question whether the
law could be mode to meet
,the evil 'of. which they so
generally complained.—(Hear. hear.).. Mere than that
he hardly thought the Government _could be, called,
upon to undertake. The House, might tall upon them
to do that, and the Government would be prepared to
obey that call.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that this was
the proper way of proceeding, in order that full justice
to all parties might be done, and not by an address to
the Crown, founded upon what was after all uncertain
information. In order, then, that the question might
be simply and satisfactorily investigated, the GOvern-
merit were anxious to carry out the inquiry in the spirit
suggested by the Noble. Lord, if they were permitted to
do so.—(Hear. hear.) .
Lord R. GROSVENOR said that but-for the promise
which had. been made by the Right Hon. Gentlemen.
(Mr. Walpble) on behalf of the Government, he should
have felt it to be his duty ,to yote for the motion of the
Hon. Member for Poekermouth (Mr. Borman) ; bht
after the prom:se ha been made that the subject which
had to-night been brought before thaHotise should be
thoroughly investigated, and in a friendly manner,, by
the Government, and that they would .then come forward
and state whether or not it was desirable that the law
should be 'altered, he trusted the Hon. Member would. ,
not press his motion to a division. -
Mr. AGLIONBY hoped the opinions of those Hon.
Members who agreed with his Hon. Colleague in think-
ing that an inquiry was demanded in this matter, which
was one certainly of great importance to the nation,
would be shown to the public by a division upon the,
subject. He could not concur with the Noble Lord who
spoke last, when he said he was satisfied wit . the speech
of the Home Secretary—(Hear, hear.) -Fur his part, he
should like to know, first, when the inquiry was to be
made, by whom it wat to be made, and when the House
would have an opportunity of considering and deciding
upon the report of such an inquiry: SO tar from being
satisfied, then, his previous dissatisfaction was only in-
creased by the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
From tee Chancellor of the Exchequer he heard not a
word about the concession of an inspiry. Oa the con-
trary. tee Right Hon. Gentleman said the House of Com-
monse was note fit place for theological controversy, and
thst it was incenveoient to discuss these questions there.
True, it was not the place for theological controversy;
but, in his opinion, it was the place of all others in which
an appeal ought to be made for an inquiry; and bethought
the House, would not be doing its duty to the country, if
it did not express its wish and determination that an in-
quiry should be made —(Cheers..) He hoped, there-
fore, that his Hon. Colleague weuld divide.—(Cheera.)
Mr. HORSMAN (in reply) said he had not the
smallest difficulty in deciding as to the course which it
was his 'duty to pursue, though he had certainly some
difficulty in reconciling the various reasons which had
ben urged upon him for adopting a different course.
(Hear, hear.) Before noticing them, however, he must
be permitted to say one word with regard to the extra-
ordinary attack, he might call it, which had been made
against him by the Right Hon. Member for the Univer-
sity of Oxford (Mr. Gladstone). That Right Hon.
Gentleman set out by observing that, at the proper time,
ho would be prepared to impugn and disprove some of
his (Mr. Ilorsman'a) most important statements. Now,
considering that these statements bad been made in the
presence of the assembled House of Commons, he
thought the proper time for confuting them was the time
at which they were made, and that the proper company
iu which to confute them was the company in which
they were made.—(Cheers.) But the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman did not think it a convenient time, and wished
to postpone his confutation to a more appropriate
season.—(Hear.) He (Mr. tioraman) invited the Right
Honourable Gentleman to confute his statements. 01
said the Right Hon. Gentleman, " I will do so now ;"
and he thereupon proceeded to notice one of those
statements, but left all the others untouched. In en-
deavouring to show, however. how capable he (Mr.
Horsman) was of misquoting, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man was himself guilty of one of the grossest misquota-
tions he had ever heard in that liouse.—(No.) He
would prove ite--(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentlemah
said that he (Mr. Horsman) had stated that the me-
morialists called upon the Bishop of Bath and Wells to
institute an inquiry, and that to that petition, he gave
the answer which he (Mr.' foreman) had characterised
as a haughty answersL-ati answer which breathed the
spirit of Laud.—(Cheers.) Now it so happened that he
did not apply these expressions to the answer which
was returned to the memorial. but to the answer which
was returned to the second letter 'addressed to the
Bishop of Bath and Wells. He had stated that that se-
cond letter of the Bishop well deserved to be charac-
terised as he (Ur. Horsman) had characterised it. That
letter was an answer to a meek and reasonable request
to give the parties 14 days more delay, and it was that
answer which he had designated as haughty, and as
breathing the spirit of Loud.—(Cheers.) He asked then,
whether the Right Honourable Gentleman bad not made
a charge which he himself must feel was totally un-
becoming hisassaition in that House?—(Cheers.) The
Right Hon. Gentleman said that he (Ms Horsman) must
be aware that he had not honestly quoted the documents
which he had brought before the House. What was the
me :rang of that? Did he mean that; holding a document
in his hand, he (Mr. Horsman) had falsified its reading
to the House; the Right Hon. Gentleman having a coun-
terpart of that document in his own hand at the time,
and being fortunately able to detect it?—(Cheers.) Was
that the Right Hon. Gentleman's meaning? But he
would not pursue the subject further. Ho would leave
it to the Right Hon. Gentleman and the House to say
whether, for the statement he had made, he deserved an
accusation which he should be ashamed to make against
the Right Ron. Gentleman or any other Member of that-
Houss.—(Cheers.) Of the manner in which his motion
had been treated by other 'Hon. Gentlemen who bad
taken part in the debate he had not the smallest disa'
position to complain. He must admit, as the Chancellor'
of the Exchequer had observed, that' the motion was
an embarrassing one. It was'equally true that every.
thing connected with those questions which respected
the Established aura, and Which so much agitated
the country, was most embarrassing. But what was
that Church of
.England of which they had been speak-
ing ? 'Was it.not a Church' that had been established
by Act of Parliament.? Did it not rest upon an Act of
Parliament P Did not its ministers receive their privi-
leges and pay under. in Act of Parliament ? And if the
Parliament of England had established a church, With a
staff of ministers for the propagation of a particular
faith, and the teaching of certain doctrines, and it it
were alleged that the men 'who were the agents and
servants of that church used their priviliges and their
power to teach very different doetrines, then he wanted
to know whether the Parliainent, which bad established
that Church for certain purposes, was not in reality
the very tribunal to consider whether those purposes
bad been answered or net•?—(Cheers.) The Right
Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer said
that the motion ' was very vague and indefinite
in its character. Of conrse be (Mr. Horsman) was
quite prepared, in bringing forward an ecclesiastical
question for the consideration of the House of Com-
mons, to find it met as a qiestion of great difficulty,
delicacy, and embarrassment.. He knew well. that the
first ground. which would be taken was the technicality
of his motion. He knew that if ho had proposed a Com-
mission it would have been objected to, and that the very
fact of its being a definite course would have laid it open
to difficulty What did be do then? He proposed
merely that her Majesty, as heed of the Church, should
be petitioned by this Hotise graciously to institute an
inquiry—that'
lion)oraqs
oampuwnoi
mrnensyroi.s inwbesi(thlohaisiftachyehtote
huiarh he,
had
qhdlaue inaobrddrueyi.
deer)eren being,lsturisiuopgr
h proposed
ro
rs-tfoothce:pedot
otautihordeeenadvse ichlythechaifaanotrat
Ministers
tedthaehderneusol
on.
inquiry;
4epifunrpcis the;ttsr
hhyoi
e:;f
it for theof
own hands-
,to :siege
but he left thel mode of inquiry expressly open to the
Government._
House to diatate to them, what should be the
It was not for him to suggest, nor was
purposely left to the Government mode
qtairY the inquiry. If
the Crown .to institute that
fmight
intd t
rdaein-
stituted their
they agreed to an Me
;and his motion expressly and
anti the largest disoretiorei."n"
inquiry in such •
most efficient and pro
t the very fullest powers
the inquiry,
but it must not be what the. Ffs lea) ve it in their hands,
" friendly inquiry"—(Chearse_
;(3,0 Secretary termed a
these " friendly ...Weyer he. knew well what
they wanted to stifle a question se; Jile(Reart 'hears) If
set on foot a " friendly incoiry," andy hadto do was to
Parlia-
mentary Committee to sit upon it. ,geet
wanted was a judicial inquiry. This House arrairrYiett
to demand a judicial inquiry, and ptovidad elite% G aright
instituted such an inquiry, he was most willing
the matter in their hands.. Nothing elaen a°
judicial inquiry would be. satisfactory, especially
after
the admission of the Government that the question
ought not to be suffered to rest where it-was 4 that it
was boo important to be left there. Under these oir.
he
mw:nh_uni c
r s entirely)
they