The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-11 00:00:00

14,800 -the town of Liverpool, with a cenetiturincy of
• 17,400—the borough of Lambeth of 18,000. I further
find these three places 4uppor•ed the tell iwing amount
of population, viz —in Westniiroasr, 241,1.00; iu Litn-
heth, 251,000; in Liverpool, 376,003—each of these
Ones represented by two lalembore There is, also,
Futsbery, with a conitite3ney of 20,003—supported by
a population of 323,000; Marylebotic, with a coning-
- ency of 19,700—supported by a population of 370,000;
the Tower lisinlets, with a constituency of 23,000—
supported by a population exesediug 500,000;
Slid-
dlesr.x, with a constitnency of 14,600; AI sochester, with
a constituency of 13 900—supported by a population of
316,000; South Lancashire, with a constituency of
21,650; with a population of between 590,000 and 600,000.
We must also consider that where there is a c•iristitu-
tueney of occepyitg tenants—we will say of 501.—as
regards the material of a constituency they may be said
• to rank with the 101. franchise of a borough. Taking,
then, into coniideration what may be truly called the
prominent elements of national wealth, which must not
be omitted iu our inquiries upon this subset, tier M
jesty's Government here resolved to recommerel the
71
bum to apportion tie two other ,erebers to the
southern division of the eouety of Lancaster.—(hear,
hear.) Sir, I have been told wet thee votes that have
bern lost have been lest to the towns, and that they
ought to be given to the town.R. tier Msjeety's Ge-
vestment are telly aware thett, this is ea oljection that is
easy to make, but movt ditlitiult, to sustain. Note Lo
One more admires the energy of the great towns than
mysej. Ido not wish, however,
to mix up either their
present proud position or the it future futures with the
degraded members of St. Albans or Sudbury.—(hear,
.hear.) Sir, I cannot think that the liembsrs taken from
those boroughs could either sustain their energies or
add to their value. Let the House tic:J][4,o, that, in re-
commending the apportionment of those four seats, we
are including in these two county constituencies scores
of towns four times larger than either Sudbary or St.
Albans.—(Gear.) .0 you take the surplus population of
• South Lancashire and the West Riding of Yorkshire,
you have upwards of 1,400,000 persons who are directly
or indirectly represented now by oily tear Members.
We propose that they shall be iu future represented by
eight Members—that is our proposition.—(Cheese.)
And if you look at the population of any of our greatest
boroughs and constituencies brought under our conside-
ratieu, you will not find one of them that equals the
surplus political population of the West Riding or South
Lancashire; and you will not find any two, or any three,
or anytfour of those great constituencies, equal to that
united population to which I have referred. We propose,
then, in regard to South Lancashire, for the same reasons,
in order that the minority, whether it be agricultural
or manufacturing. may be truly represented, that South
Lancashire shall be also divided —(Hear, hear.) South
Lancashire consists of two hundreds—the hundred of
Salford and the hundred of West Darley (as we under-
stood). In the former we find the flourishing city of
Manchester. In the latter we find the famous port of
Liverpool. Therefore, there is here a natural and
well-understood line of demarcation. The result will
be that in the constituency of Salford there are
12,000, and in West Darley 9,500. There are some
details with respect to this divisnn which I might men-
tion if the House would sanction them; but I think the
House will excuse them at present. I have thus endea-
. "soured to place before the House the intentions of the
Government; aged to show the various considerations
which have induced her Majesty's Ministers, with the
utmost impartiality, to recommend this plan to the House.
Every opinion founded upon popular support that has
been expressed upon this s übjeut has received every re-
:OPeOt and attention from her Majesty's Government.
On the whole, then, desirous to do that which I think
will be most advantageous to the community, we have
thought proper, in reference to the pledge we gave, in
pursuance to the duty which we owe to that Sovereign
Whose power wo acknowledge, to bring the proposition
before Parliament. Whatever may be the result of it,
we are confident that we have only done our duty as
Ministers of the Crown in submitting it to the conside-
ration of this House.—(hear, hear.), It is obviously a
question of the greatest importance that the Constitu-
. tional number of the House of Commons should be corn-
pleted—(Hear, hear)—and that the continuous and sys-
tematic deficiency of our number, which is perilous to
the welfare of the country nod to the honour of this
House, should be removed. If these propositions are
adopted, we believe that public opinion will sanction
them, and that they will contribute to the welfare of the
community, and tend to the increase of the strength as
well as the lustre of the House of Commons.—(Cheers.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said that he did not feel disposed
to impute to her Majesty's Government any sinister oh-
.' jeot in the introduction of this measure. Neither would
he charge the Right Hon. Gentleman with having taken
the House by surprise, or with having tampered with an
• .bonoura,ble undertaking; because the Right Hon. Gen-
--tleman had, with perfect correctness, stated the terms of
the announcement which he made upon a former °mt-
He had likewise done -him (Mr. Gladstone) the
honour of referring to an objection which he had been
permitted to make at the first moment of the announce-
ment of the present proposition. lie did not suggest to
the House that it was wrong on the part or the Govern-
ment to introduce a measure of this nature because they
Were suspected of an intention to procrastinate the dis-
solution. What he bad stated was this—that it was the
duty of the House to obtain a pledge from the Govern-
ment that no measure but one of urgency should be
introduced by the Government in the present session
of Parliament, and that the measure of the apportion-
ment of the four vacant seats, by any latitude of con-
struction, could rot be brought fairly within this de-
scription. lie would not join issue with the Right lion.
Gentleman in respect to the merits of the proposition
he had just made, but he would strictly confine himself
to the question whether the subject opened by the RA:: ht
Hon. Gentleman to the House was one which the
House should consent to enter upon. Instead of meet-
ing the motion with a mere negative, he would suggest
that the House should puss, in the usual phrase, to the
order of the day. It the Right Hon. Gentleman had
succeeded in showing that this was a question of consti-
tutional urgency, then the House should give him leave
to introduce his measure, but it ho had fatted in proving
this fact, then he (\'l+•. Gladstone) thought that the
House should refuse hirer the permission ho asked. It
was proposed at that moment, and in what has been em-
phatically called a moribund Parliament, and by an Ad-
ministration which did not plead the title of pre-
sent confidence, and who was about to ask for
• that confidence by tin appeal to the people,
•• to introduce a measure which ho (Mr. Gladstone)
contended had no plea of urgency to recommend
it. The Right Hon. Gentleman admitted that there was
no magical or cabalistic virtue in the number 658. He
(Mr. Gladstone) would goefurther, and say there was no
law or principle of the constitution—no solemn decision
- of Parliament, nor anything beyond accident and the
duration of about forty years, which the Right Hon.
Gentleman called prescription—to recommend this num•
ber to their especial notice. There was a popular error
upon this subject, when it was supposed that 658 re-
presented a great balance of interests, and that it was
the duty of Parliament at once to complete that num-
ber. What they found by referring to the Acts of Par-
liament was this. Fly the Act of Union with Scotland
the stipulation entered into by this country was that
Scotland should have forty-five members, and by the Act
of Union with Ireland the latter country was to have 100
tut tubers. But these Acts set no limits to the total num-
ber of the members of the -douse of Commons. The Right
flon. Gentleman referred to what he called the danger of
• remaining in this continuous and systematic deficiency.
if, then, there be a systematic and continuous de-
ficiency, where, ho would ask, was the alleged prescrip-
tion? Sudbury had nut been disfranchised very recently.
It had been disfranchised since the year 1844. Since
that time eight years had elapsed. They had had three
Ministries—all parties in the state had successively been
in opposition, and not a single member of any of these
parties in opposition, including that which now sat op-
,posite, had celled upon the House to vindicate this sa-
cred prescription, or had appealed tothis
number—(Bear, hear)—or
this
sd o constitutionalld
numbersaid toe tshtng e
dword
. upon the necessity of raising
and that although they had passed through thee"radaeaalroi
a general election in the intervening thni'.—(Heear, hear)
e nMt
leemmbaenr s
towardsreturned
the
o
They had had 656 instead of 658(4
Parliament. The Right Hon.
.. close of his speech had said a condition of things like
that was dangerous to the country, and menan-d-
-honour of the House. That was the first time hadthe
heard such a view, and he had beard it with regret,
pressed of a reduction of their numbers, which was
likewise consequent upon accident, as the originally
fixed number was likewise consequent upon accident.
(Hear.) It was purely a question of convenience and
policy, and nothing else. But setting aside any
mere opinion on that—whether the private opcs
'• • uion of Right Honourable Gentlemen, or their opinion
as Ministers of the Crewn—the point he put to them
wee this: that the Right Lion. Gentleman was bound, he
order to make good his case, to show that there was
some constitutional sacredness or prescriptionattached
to that number. On the contrary, he had showif,
reference to the great Legislative instruments, that that
• number did not exist in them; and the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had failed to show that it was the constitutional
number. and he could not make any claim to the House
consequenthis proved its being the con-
the tutional upon
PI
Ron. Gentleman
On the other hand,
which he hoped that
,nntleman who took the same view as that
in to reetoolla; Gladstone) was now humbly endeavour-
. now standinaQ„need' would remember that they were not
punctilio. Ea ;1""1 "Y ground of mere etiquette or
it would have beegttreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman
in coming into onieouticonstitutionat if the Government
introduction of had pledged itself absolutely to the
any given
then to dissolve ratii,,,l number of measures, and
constitutional to expect fromt'But what was right aid
given as a pledge, wee them, end what they had
• , not the fl •
of measures—three, four, or fixing a certain number
jug down of a principle, theneynotther number—the lay-
erin
went which was definite, and etrieng into
an
engage-
might contest the Right uou'ouYr. understood. Ho
construction of that engagement ansi'" Gentleman's
its scope as understood by the Right I.lelitre latitude of
man. He at once conceded to the Right ilounrable Gentles
that there was not the slightest intention to .es Gentlemanae
it. But the principle of the understanding was, that from
, that no
measures, except those of immediate urgency, should
be
submitted to the House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.)
That was variously stated on various occasions. At the
same time it was said that none but necessary measures
were to be submitted to the jadgment of the- House of
Commons. On one occasion the Right Lion. Gentleman
carried his language so high as to say that the Govern-
ment would not introduce any inewures except those of
absolute and indispensahle necessity.
lie did not wish
to stand by any one particular expression or another,
for he felt that the substance of the understanding was
clear in the mind of evesn lion. Gentleman who beard
him, and that he was not stating; it too strongly when
he said, that the understanding asked and obtained was
• . that no measures but those of immediate urgency should
tea ~gatbaailted EirlitmozNeither did "h
t. • a Yi4der-