The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-16 00:00:00

the
upper class would be most severely felt by the poorer 1 truth we had it not.. .Let their Lordships censider, if be ready to be called out at almost an hour's_notice. Now,
class, and it is desirable, therefore, so far as youcan !an invasion took piece, ee2Sl the:, out owolg to the want he asked, would the proposed militia answer that de-
consiete.ntiy with the exigencies of the public s r vice, to of British_coar age or suo,.. , set 0 (sing to the want of i scriptien? It was obvious that no force not permaneutly
avoid impothr, a tax of this kind upOn thOSO Who nosy proper discipline,
it 81.1"19' P' J•27't.:f-'34t5f.L11, :last would i etnitodied could be suffittientlytliseiplined to meet regular
0 unable to b7ar it. In the Bill eS the late GOve.3.n. be the eft et on the item al teeete and moral diBol'eliee
Men. -
e ,es in the Act of 1802, it ane, proposed in the first of this country? Betidee, there yva3 r: ether eenshhra- :troops in the field. Their main• reliance must be on their
army and navy. How could they expect to get men to
nlslance to Proceed to the ballot. The pzeeeat Govern- lion—nalnly, the very greet thicartainty of obtainhne serve at 7s. a week who wer3 Prtt'oahlY receiving at 104 C;
raell'
~ however, considered most acait?usi)7 whether it those men tonna when once we hed parted with theirl. ; 12s. a weer wages as labourers? They proposed also to
vieuld not be postible :altogether to ditpeuee with. the He agreed watt the Noble Eerl that the ballet slitteY ! take them from their homee ler a peeiad of ate yeare, in
necessity of having recourse to a mode of proceeding so he avoided ; but, et the same time, if the Noble I'nea. order to mike them serve as ceerenon soldiers, with the
adverse to the feetioge of the comedy, owe involving no relied entirely on his volunteerS, let, Lim remembee -.e ' disadvantages of being subject to martial law and to the
such additional oXpenSo, incouseolsnce, and hardship, he relied upon men gathered feam all peels, of the e eel. regular military discipline. Looking at all the induce-;
and after all, is railloteel cssesont of twenty, not:obtain- try, and persens .0! the moat locomotive dnsorineee. 1 reents held out to the soldier, he was of!opinion that the
41. the services of those upon whom the ballot fails. In He could uuderatand'a state cif th:nge in which the fion; soldier': career was by no means a bad ote to. him who
the year 1831, which was tho last oecasiou when the commissioned officers would be folly. occenied in folloW-' was ready to do his duty. . But this was not. the 'cue
e
ballet was put into exercise, a force. was required to be ing those Weer, from one pert of the country to the other, with the militia. If. they paid down the bounty at once
T
raised of 2,500 men. here were balloted for not less and endeevourinr to bring there hick' to those coloars they would probably get .the most worthless. of the
.po-
than 18,000, tied of that number, eftergoing through which they had abarifincd, wed tvhitlh they had a mo- nulatiee, who would be tempted by the amount to enlist.
',ll the processes of the preliminary inquiry, there were five in abandoning. He therefore ceuld not consider He feared that under this Bill men would he found
15,000 or 16,000 exemptions which were claimed-and sliest the army raised under thin Bott if it could to pocketing the bountY, with which they would proceed
taken: called an army at all; we,?, or woell prose) to be; crie substantiated, while of the 0.000 or 3,000 actuallyto.Oalifornie, to Canada, or life ITaitedStaiet, and that'
when they were Winded they ivehici not be, for.thcomieg.
net nioro than 120 ot the.-e who were belioted - for which could be relied oe.
served in the force; :Ito remalacler havice• provided aim a militia had been found avallah'e for ttcdve service,
He could eot find in hisl.ery,
And now a word 'upon the subject of desertion.. By the
substitutes. It ettele, therihore,, to. this—that by the at all reserebling that which was preposed to be reit:el Act of 1803, it was proposed to raise en army of reserve
volunteer system you will g,-or, at oecs the same oI,IISS- Of by this &H. The American militia bonen() resemblance if 49,5G0 meth 'lle Ill:Labor actually raised wa5.45,492:
Persons—not the Ines.: dteerable, parhapa, but still as to this in gay of its qualities, in the mods in which it Of these 2.873 were belloted- ment substitutes for re-
Pablo of Frisking very good soldiers—who serve at sub- wee precuree, or in the military h:totts which it ac- crusts. Oi the vv hole number only 44,071 joined 'their'
solutes after, you have gone through all the delay, ex- : cpired; and evea .the recently raised armies of --the regiments, and of these, ,dirriteg 'ten M0nth:4'5,651 de
_Dense, and inconvenience of the ballot. Let me juste -United States showed theeaselvea' neything but c.on- sorted, or were claimed as deserters: aud 2,116 were
Point out to.the House, with a view of showing the delay Potent for . active eeeevice, as .wee 'proved during tho charged with .ceoimitting other offences. tradee thiS
and expense of 'proceeding under the ballot, some of the Mexican war. Again, there was the laedwehr of Ger- Bill, if men could not he preeured. by Voluntsry enlist.
lcePs which are necessary to put that system in motion, many; but that was an army of re-nerve, compared of [cent, recourse'wes to be hadto the. ballot., There was
In the first place, as soon as possible after the 10t.h of old soldiers who came into the &Id clothed wigs all this, however, to' be urged es a merit in the Act of
Pcteher a sub-division meeting is appointed to beheld their military attributes, It Would undoubtedhe ple.ce 'lBo3—namely, that, every balloted , man .could claim.
;11 every county; lists are then to be returned of all men tho courage of Englishmen in e,- false ttositit a if, under from the parish hi Which he lived onethalf of' the cur-
aetween the ages of 18 and 45 in the division; then any circumstances, they were to be sehjtcted to the fire rent price of a subititnte, provided a certificate were
comes a notice to persens claiming exemption; lists are of a regular army composed of Well=disciplined troops. procured from the deputy-lieutenant of the county.
kxt to be made out of persons who have not claimed In the year 1831 the present King of the Belgians was It the price of a snlistittito should rise •to 301.., .which
exemption, notice, of appeal ie then to be giver*, and, exposed. together with that kingdom itself, to a violent was a low average, the party could call name
after disposing of the appeals, complete lists are to be attack from thseNetherlands,hand a coafliet ensued, in the parish to pay him 151. Although this-prevision
trade' out and. forwarded by each sub: division meetiug which the Belgian troops were ' entirely worsted' was beneficial to the individual, it- was not so to the
to the geeeral meeting of the county. This general re- by those of Holland. The reason wag, that - the 'country, which might, on account of 80,000 mat, he
turn is then to be forwarded to -the .Secretary of -State, Belgian army was imperfectly trained,- and - went ' -called upon within the next twe years to pay, perhaps,
the
"numbers to be raised are apportioned to each sub. into the conflict in want of discipline and habit to meet a sum of 1,200,000/.4 He thought it particularly' hard
division, then comes a second meeting of the sub-divi- the troops of Holland, who had all the advantage of' upon the people of the manufacturing districts to compel
ton to appoint the members subject to the arrangements :training and discipline. - His Noble Friend (Earl Grey) ' service or impose a heavy fine. With' regard to prece-
'sued by the general meeting. • ,Three weeks after that had just reminded him that when, in 1848, the courage dent, he denied that-the principle on which past militias
Id third sub-divisieli meeting is to be held, to proceed to and spirit of those troops came to be tested, they proved had been raised was that of pressing the lower cirdera
(like the ballet. Notice. is then to be
.given of the that they were not wanting in either, end that they were into the service, in prefrence to the .classoi above them.
men who have been struck by the ballot, and three capable, under that Sovereign, of affording the most By an Act of Charles IL the onus of furnishing to the
,wo be held forthe purpose of calling upon the men dent that this Bill would provide an army capable of glossing 501. a year, or 6001. in money, was to supply a
weeks after a fourth subdivision meeting is obliged effective assistance to any force. •He did not' feel confi- ranks of the militia was thus established. A man poss
'
„,..
itiittelately chosen by the ballot, to appear to -show cause being depended on- in actual service. The Noble Earl foot soldier. A. person receiving 6001. a year, or in. the
ettuthy can why they
.should . not serve. All these pro. had. a right to ask • him (the. Marquis of Lansdowne) possession of 6,9001. in money, a horse soldier ; and men
short occupy a period of, from first to last, not much whether he relied on the Bill of the late Govern- of smaller property were to Tubtheir funds together,
art of three months, to say nothing of the greet ex- ment as affording an efficient militia. He was bound to enable them to supply their, contingent. He believed
pence incurred in the various stages. The great bulk of in candour to say he did not so rely. At the same in the patriotism. of the people of this country, but it
tfirese expenses were, under the Act of 1802, defrayed time ho thought it expedient that the people of this behoved Parliament to beware how it alienated that
ola the county rates. We look upon this as a grievous country should be drilled --gradually -to the '' use 'of feeling of patriotism by committing sri act of injustice.
treasure upon the 103%1 finances of the country,• and we arms. He looked to the possibility of their bsing Bat he had oth_er objections to the Bill, Whilst
*eve that even if it cannot be altogether avoided, yet, brought into a seaman which • they-would -be. useful for Hayed the milia would prove a - failure he 'at the.satem
ett3 far as Possible, we desire to throw it upon the gene- serving in garrisons incase of need; but he did not think time felt confident that it. would intarfere'with recruit-
?' lands of the country, it being clearly and unexcep- that any militia, abort of an army of reserve, which was ing for the regulah array. It. was impossible to go.into
:lonably an expense which should be tern° by the-cocas a very different thing, would supply that deficiency the market for 80,000 men fort thiS' force without crip-
?l' at large-. We hope that in most cases we may be which we were bound to supply -with the view to -an pling regular enlistment, It could be incontestably shown
440 to dispense with the tedious and expensive =chi-. efficacious defence. With hie repugnance to a standing that the ballot had, in past timeh', had the effect of
enY of the ballot, We hopedat th • commencement army, he still thought it hie duty to avow his opinion checking theoprdin.ary recruiting for-the 'army; and that
.so f.,
Of ' ' •
the session
,and further information which we have that the best, safest, acri•most chimer of all remedies' men- held back in•the hopteof being required as sulisti-
Itt`nee received and
hs to believe that in many, if -not in would be found in a force of that' kind.-.(Hear, hear.) tutes in the militia. He confessed re shared in the ge-
d.°st, of the counties of England we-shall experience no He thought that an army of reserve would be far prefer. neral persuasion thatehis'meetare t would never be.car-
eiffieulty whateier in raising the quota which • may he able to any force raised Mader:4lin measure before the tied into effective operation.. It it. was,' he: thought it
cratd by volunteers .and without having recourse to the House, and not much more exPonsive- He believed evoeld succeed in enlisting: only the least:. steady,- the
a S'Ye .do not purpose to alter the •cha-- the expense attending this measure- would be much least inclustriouleand the lewd intelligent portion of the
deter of the existieg militia—we do not desire to intro- greater than the Noble Lord imagined. At all events, working population. Would-it be wise to procure-such
Present
a force of a less constitutional character than the an army of reserve would, be what the force raised men, partially train them in, the use of art:me-and then,
reserve
militia,.—we, do not wish to obtain an army of under the Bill would not be—a real bona fide reliable 'after the lapse of five .years, turn them-loos-e-opon the
iteserve under the name of a militia; but we -desire to defence.-e(llear, hear.)
..He trusted, in conclusion, that country.? The danger of-such a course had been felt in
e"otee the force, subject as; the present force is, to the this imperfect measure would be the only one which Femme, and it would be well to avert it here. At the.
'"uiand of those country gentlemen who •the ,in time Parliament would have recourse -to for the purpoee of present moment there 'was no political excitement
Of da pinnacle which was
t tiger to the country, have never hesitated to take placing it on that essential to its amongst the working classes, owing, as he believed, to,
,slr proper, places in its defence, and who are entitled glory, its independence, and its peepetuitye—(Cheers.) there being no grounds of complaint as to their cendi-
threeeive, as upon former occasions they have received, The Duke of WELLINGTON was at times very wen; but it ought to be remembered that ten years had
eoufiden not yet passed over our heads since it was n , e •
tee force
ce of the Crown in raisin commanding imperfectly heard. He said—l am certaiely the last militaryf -- • manufacturing , , ace,sar to
"gee when necessary.
Vie, , We have, however, --with fs man to have any hesitation of opinion as to the relative
send a arcs into the districts to
restore order.
•H denied,
-that
tit_ ;9 the increased efficiency of the force, made an . e.-there was any• inceusise
of meting an enemy with disciplined or t cy in o osin this
the
in the qualifications of the different ranks of advantages - g
en pp g Bill and supporting that of Lord,
r''' officers While under the 1 I - present system the- legal -with undisciplined or half-disciplined troops. The thihigs John Russell, for the two-measures . were- essentially
ettalta ' so different that it -
kr, cation depends upon the possession of landed pro- are not to be compared at all.--:-(Flear, hear.) _ With different, has hardly.- poigble to ap-
the% we propose
,that with respect to ail officers below disciplined troops you are acting with a certain dt;gree of the one and '
prove e . not disapprov© of the other. The
rook of major—that having the
eoe_
tn. honour to hold a a confidence that what they are ordered .to perform
one measure provided for what was - called legal
a
tosti fission in" her Majoatyta service shall be assumed els - militia, and the other for a . general militia; 'la - oth
v win eerform.—(Hear, hear.) With undisciplined
la
Ni a sufficient qualification for the militia. •At the " tee ' proposing to take the meaktiret pasied,at;.the period of
itikt ° time let me guard myself by saying that it is not troops you can have no such confidence; on the contrary, the last war as a, foundalion... . In. Igoe Lord Castle.,
tefiecded in the slightest degree, by the introduction of the chances are that they. will do the very reverse of reagh, ins
.ihtroducing
•the, Bill for the formation
te °ers holding commissions in the reaular forces, to in- what they are ordered to do•-e(aear, hear, and a laugh.) of a local militia, maintaleed what he (Earl Grey) con-
tfere in
led, any degree in this appointment—that will But we Must look a little at the state in which we stand force on which • a reserve
ought to be enrolled to assist: • • tpehihist as before with the lord-lieutenants of • -the re- at the present moment.—(Efear, hear.) This country is Under the old Act, in Case a .
of ac the army.
actual invasion, the local
mill ',L.l've counties. The, time for which we propose the at poem; with the whOle,,world, except in certain parts, militiaaid be
it, .Lta shall be, called out in each successive year is a cr ore the frontiers of its ()van distant dominions, with eh .
,any part of the
tio ,
lion ‘4 et 21 days, liable to be diminished at the discre- which operations of war are-carried on w's• conntrY, and sueh was the inbintion of tthe Bill of Lord
.by means of our
off of her Majesty to three days, comprising, in. point - • John ties . as ,ereegh proposed a strictly
establishment. You are now ' .01' f
peace provi ong fora a local force to, be permanently .embodied ' led in case of no-
Sct a •
tete , °thing more than a mere muster, and of being .peaco estehlishment; yeti are at peace with the whole , invasion, • ' ' and thenonly ' ' •
prat to not less than fifty•six days. -I do not -world; yoti aro providing for a peace establishment.
teal
cn in ease of .the inability on
tieneod to say that a drill of twenty-one days is suffi- I 'say that peace establishment ought to have been the part of cohun ris, ho eupply voluntary corps. .He
seid to convert a raw . recruit into an effective eirectua-
ily provided for long ago.—(Cheers,). If it (Earl Grey) t o.uget it unfortunate that the intention of
ried'ert but I think it trill not be contradicted that a pe- had been, we should not , bare needed now to be Lord Castlereagh had been departed from, and that a
is e„ ,°,i Eft -six days under , able and intelligent officers Cold, us we have been by the Noble Marquis about the l&cal neilitia,,whieh had proved . a most vapable force,
to tlll'° sufficient ,to enable' the rawest: ountry recruits number of days and weeks it will take to train .;he '1" . I a mill-
kB i- .
wile sepplanted by a regular railitia. Since the war the
~,,,
tveti . that petition, and discharge all the duties which' tie rtcruiis,-- or about the futility of expectipg a-eythieg hts -,
- regular zaiiitia bad costthecumetry 8,000,000/ •end from.
~
134) In the event of an invasion, they would-be likely to to the urpea6 frees troops with Ebeir, three weeks' or d t th-
t at perm, e e present he .cloubtsd .whether it had,
tl tealled upon to occupy and perform, while even a drill their six weeksh.oierhat time it may be, training. vhi) contributed one iota, to tho safety of the em, -Lord
la ItelitYtone days will be found to be of great advantage have never, up to this moment, maintained a proper
Jt Russell in hie Bill proposed that •no :militia should,
„ subraised in those counties hehe be
.. . w 1 voluntary corps could_
tee sequent ,training. Another important. point in: peace establishment—that's the real truth—(Elear, hear)
Bill.• •be established. The OGntingent to be supplied, by.an.
trit„_ is a provisionfor enabling the- Board of Orda•
—and •ve ere vow in the,' poi;tion in. which we find oar- • •
te;t'e to select, at a higher rate of pay, some men from
•.
se '"' ' ' ' organized police ought not to be He lee-
yee. . eselves forced to form a peace es!ablithineet such as this .. . forgotten,.
114, -.1 Ilt 1 s for'the purpose of
.instructing them in the •iieved that at the present moment la a majority of our
country requires.—(Hear.) I tell you that foe the last •
le (Ii artillery—a knowledge which could not fail tothe police force • ffi •
counties
ten years youh . h . ,
(Heir, hear)—and he thought county- magis-
teaerviceable to them when called upon to perform gor-
e).- than hnoubt to relieve t e sentries on duty of your sta- tr *es would do well if,
a.
.proceeding upon
it? m duty. There are provisions in the Bill for equalis- differ° tf h
lions in t root parts o t .
a world—(Telear, hear)— .
111; the atretsare of raising the mon in- different years. It ' - the _authority of Acts of Parliament, they set about
• °Pos such is the state of your peace establishment at the pee
le te ed that of the 80,000 men 50,000 should be raised sent time; such has been the. t t -
a a e of your peace estala- •
forming a snore complete police force then now existed,
tlt'a Present year, and ft reduction being then-made iu lish ut for the-lest ten years H - hear) er the expense of the force to be ,thrown upon the general
110,011eailable population for future years, not more than hatvel3abeeen cart on War iii tilfirt(risCo"re' i, :. •1•(?11 rexenue. A police force formed on - the. model of the
1449° will be raised in the followiug .year. There is a d'fihte• tth dole by ma -f
th. the glebe, it' Irish constabulary would ,be a protection to the country
tais„l,l?u. Also, that in the event of the. 50,000 not being . the ''- J., 7el
.t.cf. ra.a:nne ts-p,a,ce establish-. in time of war, and could render most effective ,service
went; you nave now
with ar a,t the Cape, still continumg,
tili,„-: io the prensent ear an excess . over the 30,000 'in time of peace. It was also a part of the plan of Lord
et,' DB raised in the. next 'year, sufficient to make up which you carryestablishmentoe eolirte%eece establishment; yet John Russell to assist the formation of volunteer rifle
nittd
llnlnher of 80,000; and in the event of throat- mOnnit
thtanpeaireeenoui4
h to relieve the Yse°nutrYiPosti at at 7 e
n Apt ra°ret• cores, on the understanding that they were recommended
Net? actual invasion, power is reserved to her statures in all parts of the and relieveo.- e the 'clriffen'a by the doOelieutenantslof ,countles, and that the parties
it p-rs'Y to increase the total force to 120,000 men. rent regiments in the tropics and oho. whet , tf,e' e.. who composed • them, should find their own anis, and.
litepi°,?°eing tho adoption of the volunteer system we are vices theret--of' how long do' You suppose? efa somese'- accoutrements Such:a force would add, he thought,- to
tree ulopting a plan which was in actual operation in , e twenty-five years, in, none I,ss than °'in ta tthe•earety of the country. By encouraging such corps
tile rid during the ,whole of the last wan,
.In the course of. °-60.„,..atid; after ,vhich - , ten Yecees-- the prac.ice of the title would become as much en amuse
tttelist war the ntimbei of men who volunteered into the (Hear,
tnh ) iyiou e . them five. .
eaorme nominall —fer itment with the young men who belonged to them, as the
yeareonly nominally.. in
use of the bow did with our ancestors. In a period. of
tletti4r troops from the militia wa,s; 64,000, and among greeta-rnan Cases There ;ere for
.thetanca, elle last.
,letetet,h° Noble Duke at the table (Wellington) will net tti actual invasion such a . force would be found far- superior
'he moony
tent out to the b
roops w
.: ape; instead ofkeep-
no -`e to say that he found ,rnany who, after a very -D a mere•b dofmercenaries, and although it might
0- 0 y
li Pt Period ing them five years at home, after their long service •disciplined troops f
te of letevice, were every way worthy to stand abroad, I wasohliged to send theta out'
u after they had . not be able to contend. with the •o •
•e6ja tide of the old-trained soldier of the Peninsular. Russia or France, it would, as containing the flower of
only been Oxteen onh t h .
m.., s a otne.—( ear, hear.). My
)tell.iar, hear.) We proposie then to revert to the L d I 11 -
er s, te yhuyou ye never had ti proper peseta calash the young .men of, Eit 'and, prove: a very, formidable
het, clown constitutionals ystem of the militia, but WO • ' auxiliary to the reguleg; army. The measure of his •
thihment all
letthis time. We are still at peace with all
letrse fo.reverae the process which has hitherto taken Noble Friend would have reduced the period of erabedi-
the world.; us, than, have a peace establishment— lad eft and instead of making volunteers subordinate to, meet to the minimum f' twelve months, or, is ordinary
the i °llowing the hallo, we protake the ballot use to as h
our constitutional peace establishment; end, when you
of'
circumstances, six montes. n-
o a The great objection to the
got that, see what yeti will do next. The Noble
let last resource. We believe confidentl that in thepresent ,Bill was, that the better classes of the people
. ~ , .
tenet majority of the counties•
d, without the expense at- •
Y Marquis, my Noble Friend, if he will allow me so to call would not ex ono themselves to the :risk of •being
it tot upon the ballot, and without much difficu
lty, we him, says he thinks he should prefer an army of reserve. called out to solve, as soldiers for so long a. period as
tea, raise ley volunteers the full number of men which An army of reserve! What is an army of reserve?— fire' years, in the eve breaking cute The
event of a war
/be re ured
iota qt , and that this force will be raised by (Hear, hear.) Is it an army to cost less than 40/.- each
Goveroment ,had at the ' limo, virtually, rejected the
leu °lts who as volunteers will receive at once that man all round? If h© thinks that possible, I tell him
offers of the volunteer Bain°
'1
under*.the idea that they
th,°.ty which they would receive as substitutes under' that we can have no such thing.—(gear, har.) But
would interfere withe-etrhee•
otps,, the militia.' That,
lehiltallot, with all its inconveniences and expense. what I. desire—and I believe it i 3 a desire the most
however, was a faillae. • sferryieteheoc
l
a
s
s
. ofpersons.
who
ihr, „,(.' Upon the one hand Ido not feel it consistent with moderate shut can be formed—is, that you shall
could afford to furniseih9 • l ss
with arms and no-
Ilte:it'scharge of the high and important chity which give. t. us,, in the first instaitce, the old . con-.
contremehts were • not l'elimlyseve enlist in the militia as
etitu iona peace establishment.—(Elear, hear.)
lotitt7es upon me to deprive the Crown of the last re- When common soldiers The '•
e - to-'ell Noble' Friend ad-
klf '''')e'of that which I think necessary, though undoubt- we have got that, then you may do what you please.
milted *e Bill of his
.
and 'though, undoubtedly, it also el
for nan inconvenient. The Noble• Marquis says, ver tru -le that these 50 000, ,substitutes,,
te th and oppressive mode of proceeding or 80,000, or 150,000 y.'b
fit f ' . lowed the ballot—it was ou lag resort or reserve;
tke t: service of the country, yet I desire to postpone ; :
In six months, or twelve militiamenmonths won't i eht e or service
, or e g e n moo. s, and if he had conceived there as
the leasepossibility of
Irled ereise of that method until -all others have been bat I. av the ''ll be fir t• 11 events for some service; its being practically required w -enforced, be would
and
Iltt •• I believe that in the course of the year we shall s-e . y t -11-- a ' , •
11 alll't and certainly they'll enable us- to employ iu - the field never hove been a party to the proposal of the measure.
e% he experience that it will not be necessary to - • by the late •these
i•• ree others who are t for servict—(hear, hear)—and in Government. He conceived, upon
Pitit „ours° to any such proceeding; but that the • • • grounds that the differ h • between the twat measures
4 v ti 4. Englishmenwill induce them
1011-I.°henteers•--•
tt,
d
6144' for the performanceonr theiro services first all, no militia, and they were in as high a state of. discipline first
it was impossible for anyone who had adopted , the
now
ti "at 1 f a comparative trifling duty, d • fit 'for service as any I ' measure to agree to the present one.
men ever_saw iu my
tore eu urttly to take upon themselves to perform those an agde-
'a 'ttecti life.—(Hear.) It was quite impossible to have a body offer a few oteservatiene on the' general .state the
„teed , ve ones which may fall' upon them in case it fences of the country. ..
He considered that ;must
We
of troops ie higher order, or in higher discipline, or more •
west ueneCestary to employ them in actual service. I - .
ttid that your Lordships • •
1 will give, if not an unanimous, -fit for discipline than these bodies of British militia were mainly rely on the regular troops and .the navy—
principally, on' the ' navy. Ho was of opinion
bleb4 "eats. a very general co at the cemmencement of the present century up to
_1810;
, followingconcurrence to a policy, that we ought to possess a nayal,,
.force cur
they were as fine corps 87 ever were seen—(Hear)—aod , ... .. . .
d in the first instenee the course mom-d ever.
,Rik ;c1 by the late Government, but departing
from the I say, no doubt thise bodies of 50,000 men or 80,000 perm to any, other, force which we pout e.
ail tecomtnended by itwith
. respect to some of the de- men whatever the number Me bewill b •- y , eso tot., in have to meet in the .Channeleesequal ,to the. soles
V' we h h the Course of time.—(Hear, -of France and Russia. It oral not necessary that the
, a,
.. . ave t ought it our bounden duty to attempt to r, hear.) Everything has its a 1110.-
'sot.' through Parliament for the purpose of givin be and this is a commencement. You . Must force should be alveays in the Channel, but within .
g per- .
derate dietanne, Whatieedt could be brought bee in w
tteimid entire security to the country,' not against an mame.a beginning here, and see that it will take some
htte!lt invasion, but against the possibility of hostile
the months before you Can England,gotnH short time:' '- It was batter for the eliecipliae Of thO navy
444012,—(E1ear, hear.) I beg, my Lerds, to move the hear.) The armies of g, who have served the that it should b 3 atationed la -the Mediterranean,or in
ild reading of the Militia Bill. . country so well, are your Lordahips so mistaken as to the Tagus than at Portsmouth. The
Governmentshould
N,t7,e Mar pis of LANSDOWNE said that he felt too suppose that they were ever composed of more than one- take card,-liawever, •of what was
to have information _ _
thtt`l the importance of the subject to remain altoge- third of real British subjects—of natives of this island? going on abroad, so LS to have a force always available ,
ehtetbilelat on the present occasion. While he was not No such thing.—(Hear, hear.) Look at the East Indies, at short notice, superior to any force we might have to
,',,,kilt,ed to give his negative to the motion of the Noble Not more 'than one•third of the soldiers there ate such meet. As euperior naval force diminished she necessity
the e' be felt it his duty thus early in the debate to state. ''''
ncritish subjects. Look at the Peninsula; not one-third for a standing army, which, after all, was the only force
kathrnands uon which he assented, to the. proposed _ the men employed " there Wore ever British soldiers on which, when it clnie to actual fighting, we
.could
G 'llre• H • common with her Majesty's 'Let I beg your Lordshipe to observe whet services those. place any reliance. With a superior naval force we
tett, • e believed, ill co
soldiers performed.--(.llforce. Ile
'tem ',tient, with his colleagoea with.whom ,he had re- • (Kerr, hoar.) Tiny fotight great might do, with a far less military
la y,, battles against the fin-
t -eted and ho 'Might add in, common with the 6t troopa in the world; they went did not believe the defence-s-of the Country to be in so
It t Portion " •of this country, r d s
Fr epare to 'BB9 everythine r inadequafo ' a ectedition as had beeu represented;
.on
—a and b '
at i, of the reflectrog people ' s:mines ever thin • ' ,e ' to e StWOSStal
'he it id • ' 1,-eve the defences of .ei g, or thistcountry would e b boric the contrary, our naval :twee had been augmented iii net.
le, u ti Cutterly. unsate to ~ , . I. them.—(Hear h -' • • h 11°'
are e .
aver 41,14'1'. in their eresent coodition, and he weald armies were British, ear.) Not, one of those
troop, 1845, and tele number of troops (excluding artillery) was,
about tho same. The artillery alsehad been placedlipote
•uteit4urink froth tale, his share in any unpopulerity and not mete! bee' but they were brava troop, .
a ...alight at ") - . t ' pus times defaults
_hut well-or- . ve—fer I believe every 138811 is brave such a Notifies, that it would soon.be nearly doublet what
310 worn o attar }1 to are athirip to p g::ittized troops. ' it was when. Lord J. Russell accededlo office.. This was.
i however, at - . lake the bettl f W
a o .
s, a
a see, effective state. •He teas haute , terloo—(Hear; Ilear)--loak at the • - . 'the branch of the service which,, as it took most time to
7tie me :time to say that while he abstained froth op- troops at that battle. I can tell nurnbtr of Britis,h
;Itei,t stieh ' t • • • the e . •• . - your Lox dthips that in. , train,' ou,ght most to. be looked to in a period of
a measure, because he..felt, la present,that battle there were .' 16 battalions of, ii, - . Hi 'opinion was, that mews should,beeeken- to
anl taster,no y no Pea". s
it hot nes bf the country and of.Perliament, if t verian militia, jest totaled, untiee the Command
,of• provide for properly increasing the regular troops. ThiS
f all Passe, this measure they could adopt .no ,measure 1 the late 1-fanoverian Atobassador , here ce' t could `not ho provide.d feer by a Mere increase of the,
•,;,
,he iii .uttlated to give efficiency to our defences— ee
leietmansegge, Who. behaved , most d • 'llia' d' ' It ' •t to take means for be-
idi kid on li allrab;y, sten ing army. , was requtsi e
it OR a 9 that ground he was bolted so far to given and there were many other foreign troops who rabble curing the mere rapid recruiting of the troop in time of+
es , egniesnence to the adoption of the measure, it •that battle, avowedly tee battle of ' —'possible.
4%1141111y C duty
Ile_ tete te his to state fairly anti without exag- (Hear, bear)— h -helped '
w 030 operations . to bring about With respect to the system of, recruiting and training, he
dtud with doubts and difficulties that pressed on his the victory which was followed by the ppece of Europe, , believed Considerable improvement might be . introduced
if • u respect to the efficiency of this measure; above for 32 Or 34 Years•—(llhar, hear.)
,I in order to .attain thet'' ' - I .47 he' bad ' t
tie it ~,, • that has now lasted these objects.
.. a 18 te,re-
luatie2, tea to be considered as tt" solitary measure for • that however mach I admire . highly-disciplined., clued a Bill to shorten
-4 -.e ° • • of the defences. Vit7 .
r re ~ xtgencies. nee
,wes tha bay ,
d most espeCiitlly Atitlshdiseiplined troops, f yOiits. The illustrione Mike (Wellington), whose opi
th t thoseexigencies? It would be a differenttroops, anniori on such • It' .would ' .
,a.. hey wet . , ease ust not suppose thet otbe:s, cannot eoeQme suotecte it oe presumptuous to dis-
tell vou you n 3
t ,Itith,
„ere preparing by slow degrhoS te to ;raise this . ~, hettat...end no delibt, it you begin with ' Put'', had then declared •the affect f h native ,
‘ %eV) that station. which most of them were aidafied so teo—(fiesi, ' /
d , th's Act of Parliament I 'would be, to deprive the a o 61.1 a a M
ttu :$ 4to • - ' • ' • • the forma. . tion of corps un r 1
PO • "copy. But it was not a crisis—admitting,
03. What their predeuessere in the mee who had served More thrin 10 eB. E 1
0 IISIbil• they .rill i b . year- ut he (ar
410 `ItY Of invasion—that would be likely tn lead . - in I•Pn - c'e°. - • it a te, whet the former Grey) doubted whether it •
or lig • ee _ J
Militia were • and if ever tii,-,s, Go ,),0 ,
~ , .. .
cur that 'n "• • '-- might ;sot }JO Well.even to in-
te ,t
.Protracted War. 'What we required was a large .,. , , , ) •t they tsill perform all. ' convetimnee in time of . . .
rush atiouee
it akinour shores • which should at once nilatta.;tere, you May Teo/ on It' - . ,te cure the great object or ' peace, in order to•se-:
hese' 5u,,,, _ o
invasion. g N !
Now did Witt measure, give us :he services' they alio' he requhetri- to rferforin.—e near,
, trained troops,
,wllich was so etr-Q!)g reser"
of'
regularly
ti_3 05,u;412a
,-- ,i a. 1. . heat.) I recom —d es ;' ' 4 "
eura.a3 the
to letup, .tht •mea. - - . the onpssit,Ori . -• ' tto important on account of
‘tiv°? 4
cc that an efficient and vrethniscip knee army
____
~ , tee, 3,..„1 . .
let „
ttttaaal., t e .
~ certain to be naade in th* • '
me.ncement of ais
may
ttid note. was compelled to come to' the coeclueion: that. '.'woempletiett, cis e peace"'''','.'ut:: , •egalost the cinthauence -of ' a .numerous
‘ittie. What would be the effhat of twe.pty-one days' ; tftweenote-3; ( tlhs.r, hear.) et ;teen fejett y 9,1 * oonstitutt- at
in time of pesos. ' His proposal Would b4etatneg ermY
fure:ktsr'oien orfort -two or fitly six daysd traieing, this farce- :111_n ehhhte at. flitte te'''
,g e
.oul. 1, ee:tre, - '' service soldiers should be allowed ' tfter,lo
it will btOOU4 f reties
Ad bee"nig US with thY t 'dial" which we wanted? He -., • tute y u,,greo:i and be enrolled as rensieners, who Would then
f .n ~,,,. 0 e ma .
froth a drill wnat yon wen,--en effici..o.' attali '" . t feted to tae rega •• ,
regularly trained force a •1, ' ' •
„ vai ao,e in any em ,*
ereeney., With.
tile tattiCau n competent autherity, thatlar ariny..—(Hear, hear ) ' I'3 - • •,- • •
Leh_ 1 er r
0. recruits for the regular artny, the utmost r
Eerl GREY saidthat.-
r:iining-e 1 -
regerd to the t h f the treops, too, there Iva* g 1( at
i - •
a war t e that ud be expected of i twenty-one days Would .i._ , , valuable' e • th
on.), airing room for impronernent. He believed at present that there
'hey w
they them n,
(A lau li ) '
rei itte wan a force, but itlitteted.
shoe! d bet reco - t `was no sufficiently effective sof training ' system
rusted 3, ts,_ y should be able to niarch.—. • g
- • 'that it ise then a perreeree ti •
uuld certainly not be considered fit t 0.130.. eres intents ,
~ h a. Y embodied force. To ale :
„ lion in the army ,
,and that especially with respect to
41,5, ,with muskets b ' ' t .eit______ . end purpoetts it was a-second regul re '• TOO' them were riot proper facilities for practice or ayonets. At tealtt ev ,ty thes ar ar y • ball-firing
.••
eett.-,ore et •qurstion, however, for them to con,'d -
site rill would he reqUisit b 'for- they 'could be e . , ~ , ~. . .
s. et er hero wet. ashes He li,,a ,oh heard that the troops who had gone out in
crop "I•teicarry each a ebe for..militia ther tea proposen militia was likely to b
) drilled • arm,. Well then, would a in ceee of ansodden ' ' • , e tmergency. Ern,„ 44,; _A
e a useful. fore° je' kenhead took their first lessons in firing ball
the ir
cow_ in one or oven in two years, be in a state h
..„ ah h. d ' th"h surs ruint during a few daye while' the ship was detained at Ports-
- be with an experienced,- " •and well e mua. remark that tey
..a 110 experieue - • ' '
e to trait
uaduth. He was of opinion aLo that the practice of for-
powerful them MI ' h • • 'wed to . "
. at t el w a . guard eget
4te"Eirray?—(Hear, hear.) ,' alarming b .het WBS • suffieien•ly attended to • our army.
g t `would
thinge to fans r, ontg, ex e 1 td a auddtn attach Liefore ty
yWe "ad Buell an army, whail 1-
„ . prepared to meet it.' - The militia should be- - •-11 -7 9 .''3
Ilk the - " Conversattons of the emperor Napoleon, "4 .
RIO as to-