The Sun.
London, England, 1864-05-06 00:00:00

'HE

employ their men and machinery. (Hear, hear.)
They rushed into this establishment with an almost bot-
tomless purse to go upon. Take the case of iron ord-
nance ; take the case of Armstrong guns. Up to the last
seven years the Government had never attempted to manu-
facture a gun at all. They had a sort of plaything for the
manufacture of guns of brass; but the victories of Nelson
and Wellington were all won by guns manufactured at pri-
vate establishments. But five or six years ago the Govern •
ment declared that the consummation of all inventions was
reached in this Armstrong gun. They organised an im-
mense establishment at Woolwich to manufacture the Arm-
strong gun. After some years a committee sat, and the
result of their investigations, as the hon. member for
Evesham said, was that £2,500,000 had been spent, exclu-
sive of ammunition; and the committee admitted that all
the guns except the 12-pounder field-piece, which was a
good gun before, had been failures. That should be a
warning to the house how they proceeded with that waste.
He attached no importance to the motion of the hon, mem-
ber for Evesham. He did not think it necessary to stop
there five minutes in order to vote with him for £6,000.
Having seen that for 23 years no vote had ever been refused
by that house, he thought a man might abandon the attempt
to reduce a vote without any imputation on his character.
He did not think any change need be made in our estimates
this Parliament, but he did think the subject of our manu-
facturing establishments ought to be entered upon and dis-
cussed in that house. He hoped the subject would he
brought forward by some one more competent than himself.
If not, he would certainly venture to call the attention of
the house to the increase of our establishments, the way
they were carried on, and the great waste of the resources
of the country from them. (Hear, hear.)
Colonel DUNNE was glad to hear that the right hon.
gentleman would exercise his influence in reducing the
immense manufactures of the Government.

The Marquis of HARTING lON could not deny that
within the last few years the manufacturing votes had
increased; but while the manufacturing votes had in-
creased, the votes for stores had not increased with them.
By keeping the manufacturing establishments in an efficient
working state, the Government could dispense with that
which was the most expensive of all things—the keeping up
of an enormous collection of stores to be ready in case of
war. If they had no means of getting at a short notice a
large supply of warlike stores, they must have a large supply
of such stores in the storehouse ready for any emergency.
The amount of money required for keeping such stores was
considerable, and to that must be added the probability that
in this age of progress any warlike article they stored Eight
be superseded in a few years, and become obsolete. There-
fore they ought to have manutactories upon which they
could depend in time of war. With regard to the question
of waste, he was sure no hon. member whose mind was
unprejudiced on the subject could read the report of the
committee and say that any word in it tended to show that
the system of manufacture conducted in the arsenal was
more expensive than the private establishment at Elswick.
It was with considerable difficulty that Mr Rendell and Mr
Noble, partners in the Elswick factory, brought the com-
mittee to the conclusion that the prices were not very con-
siderably in excess of those at which the Government
manufactories and laboratory supplied the articles. He
could not see that the evidence given before the committee
tendrd to warrant the sweeping condemnation of all the
Armstrong guns except the 12 pounders, nor could he find
the paragraph to which the hon. member for Rochdale had
referred, as stating that the manufacture of these guns
should be suspended. With respect to the Acecuuts, altera-
tions were going on at this moment, and he hoped in future

they would still further show the house what money was
spent in labour and material, and what was the cost of the
articles manufactured at the Government establishment,
After some further remarks from Captain Jzavis aad the
Marquis of HARTINGTON the committee divided
For the amendment 35

Against it
Majority .. —45
The vote was then agreed to.
A sum of £372,519 was proposed for warlike stores, which
was agreed to after a short discussion.
Colonel BARTELOTT moved that the chairman should
report progress. _ _

The motion was agreed to, and the House resumed.
UNDER-SECRETARIES INDEMNITY BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT SUPPLEMENTAL ACT.
This bill passed through committee.
UNION ASSESSMENT COMMITTEE ACT AMEND-
MENT.
This bill was read a second time.
JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES (FOREIGN COUN-
TRIES) BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
The house adjourned at 25 minutes past one o'clock.

RAILWAY INTELLIGENCE,

RAILWAY BILLS.

Yesterday the case for what are termed the
southern works of the London, Chatham, and Dover
Company was concluded, and that for the London
and Brighton Company, who propose a line and
works in the same district, was opened by Mr.
Mcrewether and Mr. Venablas. The Hon. S. Fitz-
gerald was heard in its favour, and subsequently
Mr. Swale, one of the governors of Dulwich Col-
lege, against Mr. Bidder, C.E,, was examined and
cross-examined at great length on the engineering
features of the proposed Great Eastern and North-
ern Junctions. Additional evidence for the pro-
moters was adduced in favour of the North Devon
Extensions of the London and South Western.
The proceedings o❑ the proposed extension lines
to Blackburn of the Lancashire and Yorkshire,
and of the amalgamation of the Oswestry and
Newton, and the numerous other Welsh rail-
ways, consisted of the opposition in each case,
Mr. Cawkwell, the general manager of the London
and North-Western being examined by Mr. Pope
for the company in the former, and Mr. Griersoo,
of the Great Western, in the latter. The merits of
the Dublin Grand Junction Railway are still under
consideration in the committee of which Mr. Baillio
is chairman. The unopposed bills considered and
passed in Mr. Massey's committee were the bill for
sundry short extensions of the Scottish North
Eastern and Scottish Central Companies, and to
raise £25,000 as new 5 per cent. preference capital ;
the Alford and Mablethorpe, for a railway of eight
miles from a junction with the East Lincolnshire

line at Alford station to a point on the sea beach
near Gibraltar, to raise a further capital of £OO,OOO
and £20,000 loan ; Tamarkit-hill and Callington, of
seven mites, in Cornwall; London, Chatham, and
Dover (No. 1); Scottish North-Eastern and Central
(Dundee and Forfar and New tyle); Edinburgh
and Glasgow and Alva ; Petersfield ; Corris and
Commercial Docks and Grand Surrey Docks Amal-
gamation. In the House of Lords the case for the
East and West Junction was concluded, and the
competing line of the Bloekley and Banbury came
on for hearing. General evidence occupied the
sitting.