The Sun.
London, England, 1864-05-04 00:00:00

PROTEC2ION IN BRITISH TERRITORY.

Mr, HENNESSY asked the Secretary of State for the
Colonies, if it was true:that Major Hatch, commanding the
United States troops in Minnesota, applied in the month of
March last to the Governor of the Hudson's Bay Company
at Red River for permission to pursue and kill within
the British territory, wherever they might be found, a
tribe of Sioux IncUans who had fled within the British
boundary for protection ; and if it was true that the Go-
vernor of the Hudson's B.ty Company granted their request,
stipulating only that the Indians should not be butchered
in the houses of any of the settlers with whom they had
sought refuge.

Mr. CARDWELL said that inquiries had been insti-
tuted, from which it appeared that there had been much
exaggeration on this subject. Steps had been adopted to
prevent the murder of innocent women and children.
PUNISHMENT OF DEA.TH.

Mr. EWART moved for a select committee to inquire
into the expediency of maintaining the punishment of death.
The hon. member, at some length, urged the usual argu.
ments in favour of the abolition of capital punishment, and
referred to those countries where it had been abolished
to show that the remission of capital punishment had not
been followed by any increase in the crime of murder. He
went in detail into statistics, and cited the authority of several
learned judges in support of his views, and denounced the
punishment of death as a failure in deterring from the com-
mission of murder, and opposed to the growing opinion and
Christian sentiment of the day.

Mr. DENMAN seconded the motion, and contended
that the effect of capital punishment practically was to in-
crease instead of diminish crime. The natural horror which
persons felt in condemning a human being to death led
to an exactitude of evidence being required that in many
cases totally defeated the ends of justice, and in many in-
stances prevented the possibility of conviction, particularly
where females were concerned. He was able to bear
personal testimony to that fact from having been profes-
sionally engaged in the trial of persons in-
dicted for murder. This subject had not been brought
before the house since non, and as there was a great
deficiency in regard to digested data and information
in reference to it, much benefit would necessarily result
from the inquiries of a select committee. He impressed on
the house the fact that in no case where capital punish.
ment had been abolished abroad had It been reimposed.
Lord H. LENNOX proposed as an amendment that a
select committee be appointed to inquire into the operation
of the laws relating to capital punishments, and pointed to
the notorious cases of JessinM`Lachlan, Samuel Wright,
and 'William Hall, as showing that whilst the first of them,
one of the mast flagrant of criminals, bad escaped the ex-
treme punishment of her offence, the second had been
executed for having I aken the life of a woman in a drunken
quarrel, and the third had been very properly respited.
This uncertainty about the administration of the law
rendered it desirable, he thought, that the inquiry should
not be restricted within the narrow limits suggested by Mr.
:wart, but should be more comprehensive in its scope and
objecte.
Mr. MITFORD seconded the amendment, recommend-
ing that public executions should be discontinued, as pirates
were now no longer hung in chains at cross-roads or the
heads of traitors stuck on Temple Bar.
Mr, Alderman ROSE observed that, from his own ex•
perience as one of the Commissioners of the Central Court,
he could undertake to say that juries for the most part dis-
charged their functions conscientiously, and that capital
punishments were useful in a moral point of view.
After a few words from Mr. NEATE,
Sir G. GREY objected to both motion and amendment,
on the 1,-t ound that the question was not one that constituted
a fit subject for reference to a committee. Considerable
changes had of late b3en effected in the criminal law, and for
many years capital punishment had been limited exclusively
to cases of conviction for wilful murder. He thought it would
not be either safe or expedient to abolish capital punish-
ment altogether, for by so doing the security which now
fenced round human life would be removed, the number of
murders be permanently increased, and the deterring effect
which the apprehension of capital punishment now exer-
cised be destroyed. If any secondary punishment could
be devised that would be more effectual far the preservation
of human life he should gladly adopt it, but
according
to
the judges who were examined before the Lorde'e
Commit-
tee, which opinion agreed with that of the committee the the punishment of death ought to be maintained nifo;
olf,nces of the gravest character; and he believed that no
punishment was so much dreaded as the punishment of
death. The right hon. gentleman stated, however, that
whilst opposed to the motion of the amendment he had no
objection to the notice placed on the paper for the appoint-
ment of a royal commission to enquire into the provisions
and operation of the laws under which the punishment of
death is now inflicted in the United Kingdom, and to
report whether it ialdesirable to make any alteration.
Mr. BRIGHT, alluding to the remarks of the Home Sec-
retary, said he attached little importance to the opinion of
the judges upon this subject; for almost every ameliora-
tion of our criminal cede had been carried against the
opinion of the majority of the judges. The question was,
ought capital punishment to be retained or abolished,
and, denying as he did that it was a deterrent of crime,
he contended that it ought to be blotted out of the statute
book. It was unfortunate that England bad been always
the most barbarous of Christian countries in punishments;
and so it was now, notwithstanding the punishment of
death was visited upon the crime of murder only. Seeing
what we had done for the amelioration of our criminal code

he did not think there was a man with a particle of reason
who believed that human life was more secure because 10
or 12 men were publicly put to death every yea-. Human
life and its security did not depend upon any su miserable
and barbarous contrivances as that, but up m a reverence
for human life. If they estimated the securiti( a for human
life and put them at 100, and calculated how much was
owing to our savage laws and how much t, the reverence
for human life implanted in the human soul, he believed
that only 5 or 10 might be attributed to the influence of law,
whilst 90 or 95 were due to the feeling he had referred to.
When a man was hanged in the face of the public, if the
shocking nature of the punishment operated in the slightest
degree to deter from crime, he undertook to say that by so
much were the other and greater securities that depended
upon reverence for human life weakened. If a commission
were appointed he hoped no judges would be placed upon
it, but that it would be constituted of men in whom the
house and the country would have confidence, and who
would receive evidence from whatever source it might ho
offered them. If that were done he had no doubt the result
would be at least to produce a considerable improvement in
the law.

Mr. NEWDEGATE replied at some length to the ar-
guments of Mr. Bright, which he pronounced fallacious,
and vindicated the character of the judges from the insinua-
trons thrown out against them by that gentleman, He
repudiated the idea that England was a barbarous country
because she punished with death the man who robbed her
of one of her citizens.

Mr. GILPIN' spoke in favour of the total abolition of
capital punishment, and Mr. Roebuck and Sir J. Walsh
for its retention.

Mr. RIBBER T suggested that the commission should
include within their inquiries the mode in which public
executions were inflicted in this country.

Mr. MAGUIRE said the Government had acted wisely
in consenting to the appointment of a commission, and ex-
pressed a hope that the present Parliament would conse-
crate its memory by an act which would satisfy the best
feelings of the people, at the same time that it did no injury
to any public interest.

Mr. E WART having intimated his acceptance of the
proposal of the Government, the motion and amendment
were both withdrawn ; and on the motion of Mr. Neate a
resclution was agreed to, to the effect that an address be
presented to her Majesty praying her to issue a Royal
commission to inquire into the provisions and operation of
the laws under which the punishment of death is now
inflicted in the United Kingdom, and the manner in which
it is inflicted, and to report whether it is desirable to make
any alteration therein.

Leave was given to Mr. FERRAND to bring in a bill
for compensating the families of persons killed by boiler
explosions through the neglect or default of the owner.
Sir G. GREY obtained leave to introduce a bill for fur-
ther regulating the closing of publichouses and refreshment
houses within the metropolitan police district ; and
Mr. BASS had leave to bring in a bill for the better re-
gulation of street music within the metropolitan police
d lett ict.

The Insolent Debtors' Bill, the object of which was to
enable poor debtors imprisoned for sums less than £2O to
obtain their discharge after a short confinement, provided no
lawful cause was shown to the contrary, was read a second
time on the motion of Mr. PAL LL after some discussion.
The Customs and Inland Revenue Bill was read a third
time and passed.

The Partn,- rship Law Amendment Bill was committed,
and the other business on the paper having been disposed of,
The house adjourned at 5 minutes past 1 o'clock.

THE WAR IN DENMARK,

(From the Times Special Correspondent at the late Danish
Head-quarters.)
COPENHAGEN, April 30.
We received yesterday at this place the intelli-
gence of the evacuation of Fredericia. The fall of
that fortress comes closely after the capture of the
Dybbol bastions; it will be no less speedily followed
by the abandonment of Alsen.

I shou!d not at this moment be in Copenhagen
had there been the faintest hope cf a different issue
of the contest. From the moment I saw with my
own eyes what I could not have believed on other
people's report—when I saw, on the morning of the
19,b, masses of Prussian infantry coming out of the
Dybbol bastions taken by them the day before, and
marching down the hill in serried ranks to the
tete-do-pont, and to the very margin of the Sound,
—when I saw, on the other side, the Danes stand-
ing idly to their guns at the Church Battery with-
out firing a shot, when hardly a shot could be fired
without striking almost a bout portant into the
enemy's columns—from that moment, I say, I felt
that there must be some reason for the overween-
ing rashness of the Prussians, and for the inaction
and forbearance of the Dines. At first I thought
a temporary suspension of hostilities had been privily
agreed upon, but day after day passed and we re-
mained in the island in a state neither of war nor
truce. The two hostile armies stood looking at each
other across the water; a cannon shot at very rare
intervals was exchanged ; a parlententaire from time
to time rowed across on either side to settle matters
about the dead and wounded, but the Prussians
evidently were in no hurry to force their way across.
the Strait, and the Dines were in no mood to
attempt to dispute the enemy's passage.
Day after day, as I rode about the island, I was
struck with the rapid disappearance of the relics
of the Danish army. The loss of Dybbol cccurred
on the Monday. On Tuesday night three regi-
ments were secretly embarked. On the following
day the battalion of the Guards, the only corps
that was yet intact, was smuggled away, The
headquarters had been removed from Ulkebol to
Hornp Hay, as if their business was not to lead the
troops into the field, but to see them safely out of it.
Only one division, we were told, was left for the de-
fence of Als ; the main part of the army was hasten-
ing to Jutland. That division, however, as far as I
could ascertain, did not exceed 2,000 or 3,000 men,
and its artillery consisted of about 12 field-pieces.
Oa Saturday morning the Staff embarked for Funen,
and I preceded it. I understood that headquarters
were to be established at Assens, not at Fredericia,
nor even at Middlefart, and then I concluded there
would be no more fighting either in Als or Jutland,
and travelled to Copenhagen with the conviction
that the war was at an end.

I was not mistaken ; during the last few days, we
are now informed the troops and materiel had been
gradually withdrawn from Fredericia. A trifling
skirmish occurred the day before yesterday at out-
posts, on the left, on the banks of the Overswolmeso.
The Danes withdrew behind that broad ditch in the
evening, and during the night they quitted the for-
tress and came across into Funen. The few remain-
ing defenders of Alsen will also give their enemies
the slip, at no distant period, if they have a chance.
The cavalry division, under Linderkrone, which is
now far away in North Jutland, will embark on the
first opportunity, and the whole Cimbrian peninsula
will lie at the discretion of the Austro-Prussians.
The Danes have shown in these backward move-
ments the same adroitness which characterized
their retreat from the Dannewerk. It is a pity
they were not allowed to exercise the same inge-
nuity in falling back from their position at Dybbol,
when it had become untenable. They have now
greatly facilitated, if not altogether anticipated,
the work of the London Conference. There is now
a virtual armistice between the Danes and the Ger-
mans, unless the latter take it into their heads to
cross over into Funen, an attempt which would
seem incredible, and in which they might pos-
sibly meet with greater difficulties than they are
likely to foresee, Evidently Funen has now be-
come the place d'arme of the Danish army. With
the exception of the narrow strait dividing that
island from Jutland, between Fredericia and Snog-
hoi on one side and Strip Aliddlefart or liongebro
on the other, and with the exception of the inlets
about Fanoe Island, where the water is on some
points hardly more than half a mile across—the
Little Belt is a good auxiliary to a State which has
not yet lost its maritime superiority, and even on
the banks of the narruwer channel the Danes by a
concentration of their forces will be able to show a
bold front. Experience has taught them, however,
brought into collision
i
that their old-fashioned artillery is no better than
a mere row of b
popguns when p
with the rifled cannon of the Prussians. It is only
this newfangled engine of war that wore out the
constancy of the Danes at Dy bbol and advised the
abandonment of Fredericia, as it will, no doubt, de-
termine the evacuation of Als. The Danes have
programmebeen true to their throughout. They
have come to no terms with their enemies; they
have given up nothing; they
have merely suffered
them to take what they could not withhold. They
have always made at least a show of defence; they
have put the Prussians to the trouble of the begin'
'ling of an attack. The traveller beset by the high-
way man has not tendered his purse. Re has even
buttoned up his coat,, and laid his hand on his pocket.
It may be an idle, unavailing protest ; bat the world
must take it into account, and give it such credit as
it deserves.

THE PRITSSIAN ARMY,

(From the: Times Special Correspondent at the Head-
quarters of the Allied Armies.)
HAMBURG, May 1.
The Prussian triumph at Duppel, although much
facilitated by Danish exhaustion and unwariness,will
still be admitted by all impartial and competent
judges to be a creditable feat of arms, on a scale and
with results sufficiently important to eclipse the
earlier actions of the campaign. If it be true, as
there are some grounds for believing, that the Aus-
trians, sensible of this, were desirous in their turn
to distinguish themselves by the assault of Freda-
ricia, the evacuation of that place, which yesterday
surprised every one here, will to them have been a
disappointment. Probably, many of their friends
will nevertheless consider it a piece of good fortune
for the two great German powers that they have
thus been prevented from displaying their force
against a foe so enfeebled and crippled as poor Den-
mark. Alsen will doubtless now be occupied without
opposition, and the war must be looked upon as at
an end. Probably we shall soon hear of an armistice,
to which it seems as if there could now be no grounds
for objection on the part of any of the belligerent
powers. All neutrals will rejoice at the termination
of the unequal struggle, and that they are spared
the spectacle of another monster bombardment, the
guns for which were already on their way to Jut-
land. The 24 brass pieces you were told of as lately
lying at the Flensburg railway station, left that
place by road on the 27th, and should have arrived
in the vicinity of Fredericia yesterday or toeday, if
their progress was not arrested by news of the
fortress they were to demolish having been aban-
doned. You will perhaps have been surprised to
read in some of my latest letters from Schleswig
that the siege of Fredericia could not be commenced
immediately, because artillery which was coming
from Prussia had to be waited for. It might natu-
rally be supposed that the formidable and nume-
rous park which so successfully battered Duppel
and burnt Sonderborg would be more than alga-
cient to perform a similar operation at Fredericia.
The fact appears to be that the fresh guns brought
up came not as an addition,' but to replace others no
longer serviceable. These so-called new guns were
merely old ones rifled and converted into breech-
loaders. In the Italian campaign, a great many,
if not all, of the French rifled guns were made from
the old smoothbores. Probably most of the Prus-
sian artillery used in this war had never, before
been fired against an enemy. Bes'„:.
of their conversion, which oo es the date
those I saw was
1863 or 1864, many also bhre that of their original
casting, in most cases,. between 1830 and 1840. The
Prussian artilleecy officers inform me that in their
new form ',bey are equal but to a very moderate
amount of work. Teo3e at Gammelsmark have
behei shelved, after firing on an average 800
rounds each. Opinions differ as to the facility
of repairing the damage so as to render them
again serviceable, but some of the officers who
have been using them, and who must be considered
highly competent judges, seem disposed to condemn
them altogether, and to recommend the manufac•
ture of new iron guns on the same principle. It
appears that the converted brass guns not merely
became leaded, as some supposed, but that their
breech-loading apparatus got worn and deranged.
The principle on which they are constructed is
nevertheless maintained to be excellent by all who
have had opportunies of practically judging of it,
and you have been repeatedly told that the accuracy
of the Prussian fire before Duppel and at Fredericia
was such as to excite the unfeigned admiration of
all foreigners who -,witnessed it.
Apropos of foreigners, the Russian lieutenant who
was the Czar's sole representative with the allied
armies, received, early in the present week, orders
to return home, and was about to depart when I
left Flensburg. The reason ho alleged was, as I
understand, that the interest of the campaign, and,
indeed, the campaign itself, was to be considered at
an end. So it has since proved, but it is not the
less true that he had made ail his preparations to join
the Prussian headquarters at Veile when he re-
ceived the orders to move in another direction.
Although Russia lies under the suspicion of having
worked to bring about this Danish war, she mani-
festly has of late viewed it with much dissatisfac-
tion—probably because it has not taken the course
or led to the complications she had anticipated,
and in :prevision of which she herself has made
such extensive warlike preparations, and increased
her rifled artillery by enormous orders given
to Prussian manufactories. There can be little
doubt that Prussia, also, had reckoned on things
going in some respects differently from what they
have done, and that her preparations were made
for the great war which might have sprung from
the unequal contest in Schleswig and Jut-
land—preparations on a large scale, and which
date from the latter part of last year. The
Prussian Government was then already resolved
on war, in great measure for domestic reasons, and
on taking the risk of a great conflict arising from its
onslaught upon a petty Power. It is the opinion of
some who, more than most people, have had oppor-
tunities of studying what passed behind the scenes
that no concessions Denmark could possibly have
made would have saved her from attack, and that,
had she evacuated both Duchies, a pretext would
have been found for attacking her in Jutland.
You will hardly understand in England that a
costly conflict, possibly entailing one of far greater
magnitude and much less promising result, should
be entered into for the sake of maintaining an
unpopular system and strengthening a Government
whose home policy had left it eimost without sup-
porters in the nation it ruled. Such, nevertheless,
has been the case in the present instance, and if the
reports that reach me from Berlin be correct, the
plan has been to a considerable extent successful,
and the Prussian Liberals, delighted at the lustre
cast upon their army by its recent success—per-
haps, too, anticipating some solid advantage as
fruit of the triumph—have abated their feeling of
hostility to the present Ministry. This is
the rumour that has come to me ; but in Schles-
wig I rarely saw the Prussian papers, and it
will only be on my return to Berlin that I shall
ascertain with anything like certainty the real state
of public feeling there.
Before leaving Flensburg I visited the Bellevue
Hospital there, one of those got up by the Johan-
filer, or Knights of St. John. This Order, its own
resources having been aided by contributions from
private persons, has had several establishments
of the kind open for some time past. Besides the
Bellevue, beautifully situated in a garden on the
height immediately behind Flensburg, not far from
the picturesque cemetery where stood the Lion
of Idstedt, lately overthrown, the Order has
another hospital in what is called th© King's
Garden, just outside one of the old-fashioned
gates, above which are displayed the arms of
Flensburg, a quaint specimen of blazon, intended
apparently to represent two cats jumping out of a
dairy window. Then there is a branch establish-
ment near to what was a fortnight ago the Prussian
front, at the village of Nubel. This was intended
for those patients whose hurts were too severe to
allow of their being transported far. I believe there
is also a Johanniter hospital at Schleswig, but it
must have been opened since my last visit to that
town. This week the number of patients in the
Flensburg and Nubel establishments was between
GO and 70, four-fifths of them at the first-named
place, and most of them recovering or not severely
wounded. In the Bellevue on Wednesday were
three or four bad cases. The Danish Colonel
Schow had died, and Count Solberg himself, as I
was informed, took his body to the Prussian ad-
vanced poets to deliver it over to the Danes. At the
King's Garden hospital was Major Nostitz, one of
Marshal Wrangel's aides de-camp, and son of the
well-known General, still living, who was on
Blucher's Stiff in the Waterloo campaign. Major
Nostitz lately h. id his leg broken by his horse fail-
ing with him. Sisters of Chirity were in attendance
at Bellevue when I visited it. In an outer room
was a bar, or dresser, covered with plates containing
meat sandwiches, quarters of oranges, and other food
and comforts for the wounded. They were all officers
and non-commissioned officers who lay in that hos-
pital. I had gone before the hour at which visits
are allowed, but I nevertheless was permitted
to see two of the rooms, in one of which I found
young engineer officer of my acquaintance, who

had been one of the foremost in the attack on
Rappel forts, leading the pioneers appointed to re-
move obstacles, and who was hit slightly in the
knee almost as soon as he jumped out of the
parallel, but who, nevertheless, managed to remain
with his men until late in the day. Nothing
Gould be more comfortable, and, indeed, luxurious,
than all the arrangements of the establishment,—
the most spotless cleanliness, the purest air, every
comfort, in short, that the most ingenious humanity
and thoughtfulness could devise. Some of the in-
mates were in bed, others merely reclining, others
sitting at a table and writing letters. The Prussian
army is great at letter-writing. As soon as an action
or skirmish was over one used to see the soldiers off
duty all in their quarters scribbling as for a wager ;
20,000 letters, it was written to me from Berlin,
passed daily through the post between that city and
the army.

It is reported here to.cay and generally credited,
that the evacuation of Fredericia was the conse-
quence of a military mutiny. This is by no means
improbable, considering the dissatisfaction known to
prevail in the vanish army at being compelled by
a Copenhagen faction to persevere in so un-
equal a struggle. It is difficult to explain other-
' wise than in the above manner the abandonment by
t.he Danes of 180 pieces of artillery found by the
Austrians in the fortress. There are also reports here
of disturbances at Copenhagen, but nothing certain is
known and you will probably have heard of them by
this time direct from that capital if there be any
foundation for the rumour. General Liliencrone is
❑ow said to be in the island of Mors, instead of
having crossed the Lumfjorden, and should that
prove to be the case his situation must be perilous.
It seems more likely that he will have gone north
to embark than have ramained on Mors, to be taken
as in a trap—unless, indeed, he embarks at Nyk.
jobing or some other port in the island ; but his
vessels would have to pass through Odde Sound
and other narrow passages, and if the allies were
on the alert their field batteries might suffice to in-
flict considerable damage on the retreating force.

City Sewers Commission.

Yesterday, at 12 o'clock, the Commissoners o

Sewers of the City of London met at Guildhall
under the presidency of Henry Da Jersey, Escl
Deputy.

THE SUPPLY OF GAS TO THE CITY.

A number of gentlemen attended before the
Court as a deputation from the Aligate Ward
Ratepayers' Association, and presented a memorial
complaining of the very inferior quality of the gas
now being supplied to consumers, as well as to the

public lamps within the City.
The memorial, which was read by Mr. Blake, the
assistant clerk, stated that the gas at present sup-
plied in the City was deficient in illuminating
pewer, and was charged. for at a price which was
believed to be much beyond that which the cost of
production necessitated. A petition was presented
to the Court in Nov., 1861, by the inhabitants of
Aldgate ward, in which an opinion was expressed
that the powers given to the gas companies in the
MetropolisGasAct would prove serioasly oppressive
and detrimental to the interests of the consumers,
and should net have been conceded; and also that
the amalgamation of the companies to raise the price
of gas was not justified. The memorialists consi-
dered that the question has not assumed a favour-
able aspect since Ilia presentation of the memorial
in question, but, on the contrary, the causes of com-
plaint had increased, The consumers had still to
pay the high price of 4s. 6d. per 1,090 cubic feet
of gas, and got a considerably worse light. They
proposed, in order to remedy the evil, that the
Commissioners of Sewers should purchase the
mains of one of the present gas ccmpanies, that
they should manufacture gas to supply the rate-
payers in like mauner with several other cities and
towns, or that the Commission, having the mains,
should invite public tenders for the supply of the
gas, in order that the best and cheapest supply
should be obtained from private or public compa-
nies. They expressed a belief that if either of these
propositions were adopted it would effectually put
a atop to the inconveniences now existing under
the present arrangements.

Mr. DRESSER ROGERS, one of tt e deputation,
said he thought it must be admitted on all hands
that the present supply of gas in the City, both as
regarded the quality and quantity, was not such
as it ought to be ; and he thought the ratepayers
had a right to complain and urge the Commissioners
of Sewers, as the local body, to step forward and
give them their assistance. The gas companies bad
obtained acts of Parliament which gave them large
powers, and placed in their hands a monopoly
which enabled them to realise enormous profits
—mu3h larger, indeed, than was ever contem-
plated. He did not complain that a 10 per
cent. dividend should be allowed to the share-
holders, but in some companies as much as 10 per
cent, dividend was obtained. He did not think it
was right the companies should possess the power
of paying back dividends, or of increasing the
plant and stock, as they were is the habit of doing.
Gas, like water, must be considered as one of the
necessaries of life, and the ratepayers ought, he
thought, to have the benefit of all profi's over 10
per cent,

Deputy LLOYD moved that the memorial be re-
ferred to the General Purposes Committee to exa-
mine and report. He deemed the question to be
one of the greatest importance, and he was glad to
find the citizens alive to their interests. He observed
that the subject of lighting and cleaning the
City had been recently brought before the Court of
Common Council, and he expressed a hope that the
inquiry would lead to some beneficial result.
Deputy BURNELL seconded the motion.
Mr. SAMUEL GREEN alluded to the weekly re-
ports of Dr. Letheby, from which it appeared that
the illuminating power of the gas was generally in
accordance with the provisions of the act of Parlia-
ment, and he said he should like to be informed
whether the testings as to the quality of the gas
were taken at any other place than the residence of
the medical officer. He felt that if the
gas supplied
to the public lamps were tested it would be found
that it was not of the power Parliament sanctioned.
He complained of the large amount of sulphur found
in the gas supplied to the City, which sometimes,
as reported by the medical officer, reached as much
as 23, 21, and 25 grains per 100 cubic feet of gas.
The act of Parliament sanctioned only twenty
grains, and he thought some stringent measures
should be taken to compel the companies to cons
form to the requirements of the act ; and until
such steps were taken, he felt that they would
never do so. (Hear, hear.) Within the last few
days he had been informed that in Liverpool the
extreme amount of sulphur in the
gas was 17 grains
in 100 cubic feet ; and if such a state of things
could be brought about in Liverpool, what was to
prevent a similar result in the city of London ? Mr.
Green, after some farther observations, inquired of
Dr. Letheby whether it had
not been stated in the
House of Lords that sulphur could be entirely taken
out of the gas by a chemical process ? (Hear.)
Dr. LETIIEBY said it was true that such a state-
ment had been made. The process referred to was
the patent of the Rev. Mr. Bowditch, vicar of
Wakefield, but it was said to have only the power
of abstracting rusulphide of carbon, and it therefore
left untouched the sulphur which existed in the gas
in other forms. The committee of the House of
Lords, having heard the Rev. Mr. Bowditch on
the subject, were satisfied that the question of the
proportion of sulphur in the gas was too important
to be left, that they decided to limit the proportion
in the Birmingham
gas to 20 grains, provided it
was tested by his (Dr. Letheby's) process, and they
had referred it to him io frame a clause to that
effect, and that clause pow formed part of the
Birmingham bill.
With reference to the question
put by Mr. Green as to the testing of the gas in
the City, Dr. Letheby said that the act of Pailia-
ment specified
that the gas should be tested at a
place to be agreed upon between the gas companies
and the local authorities. He had no alternative
but to test it at that place, because if any further
proceedings were taken before the justices no evi-
dence as to the testing of the gas could be received
unless the results were produced at the appointed
place. As a cheek upon the observations at the
testing place, however, be obe erved that he made

experiments almost every night at other places.
(Hear.)
In reply to Deputy ELLIOTT, Dr. LETIIEBY
stated further that be had made many observations
for the local authorities outside the city of London
with reference to the lighting of the etreet lamps,
and his opinion was that the lighting generally
throughout the metropolis was pretty nearly the
same. The defective lighting in the City arose
more from the oldness of the fittings than the bad
quality of the gas and he believed that the work
of lighting the public lamps would not be satisfac=
torily performed until the commission had the mat-
ter entirely in their own hands. (Hear.)
Deputy FARRAR said the Court had no power to
act as was suggested by the memorialists, and he
thought the gentlemen forming the deputation
should not go away with the impression that they
could take into their own hands the lighting of the
City without au act of Parliament. He thought
the whole question must be considered before such
an act was applied for. (Hear.)