The Sun.
London, England, 1864-06-28 00:00:00

protocol having been quoted by the neutrals, they accepted
that reference—the reference of the question in dispute to a
friendly Power—provided that they were to reserve their
decision—(laughter)—as to whether they would accept or
reject—(laughter)—the line that friendly Power might
assign. (Cries of " Oh, oh.") Well, that was at vari-
ance with the proposal of my noble friend and all the
neutral Powers—(hear)—because my noble friend, as the
organ of the neutral Powers, in recommending the adop-
tion of reference suggested by the Conference at Paris, dis-
tinctly stated that it was for that purpose that a friendly
Power should decide and determine between the two par-
ties. (Hear, hear.) Therefore the answer of the German
Powers would have been more frank and candid if they had
simply declined the proposal, instead of accepting it with a
proviso which made it null and void. (Hear, hear.) The
Danes, on the other hand, who throughout the whole trans-
actions have certainly clung more to their ,deoisions than
they have shown, perhaps, great aptitude in adapting them-
selves to the force of circumstance—altogether declined the
arbitration. They said' they had accepted the line of the
Schlei, and further north they would not consent to go.
(Hear, hear.) This seemed to put an end to all further
attempts towards a good understanding, but the ambas-
sador of France, by order of his Government, made another
and a last effort. He proposed that, whereas the Danes
agreed to give up the Schlei, and the Germans would not
come further south than Appenrade, an appeal should be
made to the population of the mid districts in order to ascer-
tain first of all the relative nationality of districts, and then
what their wishes were. To that proposal the Prussian
plenipotentiary agreed, but that proposal was negatived by
Denmark. A proposal of the same sort had been
made in the earlier stages of the negotiation, and had not
found favour with any party except Prussia; but Austria
and Russia decidedly objected, as well as Denmark, to
ascertain the wishes of the population in the matter. Thus,
then, the labours of the Conference were brought to a close.
We had laboured by every possible means, in conjunction
with the other neutral Powers, to endeavour to bring the
two parties to an agreement. We felt it as a calamity, as
everybody must, that war should begin again for a matter
which might so easily, have been adjusted, and for a
question not involving the existence of a nation or of a
government, but simply relating to the division of a com-
paratively small district of territory. Well, then, that
having unfortunately happened, it became the duty of her
Majesty's Government to take into serious consideration
the course which it behoved them to adopt. We felt great
sympathy for Denmark. We felt that, although she had
in the beginning been in the wrong, yet as another sove-
reign had succeeded to the throne, as a different Ministry
had the direction of her affairs, and as there had been ma-
nifested by acts a strong desire to set that right which had
been wrong—(hear)—we felt from the beginning to the
end of these last events, and from the first to the last, that
she had been ill. used—(cheers)—that might had overridden
right. We knew also that the sympathies of almost the
u hole British nation—(hear)—were in favour of Denmark.
There is a natural disposition in all mankind who have pro-
per feelings to take part with the weak against the strong—
(cheers)—especially if the weak are oppressed, and if the
strong are unjustly oppressing the weaker party. (Hear.)
We should, therefore, for these reasons, have been glad to
have found it possible to recommend to our Sovereign to
take part with Denmark in the approaching struggle. But
then, on the other hand, it was to be considered, whatever
wrongs Denmark had sustained—and they were many—
that she had in the origin been wrong herself. (Hear.)
That she had at the end, and at the very last Conference,
rejected a proposal reasonable in itself, which, if it had been
accepted by the two parties, would necessarily have led
to a peaceable solution of the difficulty. (Hear.) Her
fault in that indeed was equally shared by her antago-
nists—(hear)—but still, in considering the position which
England ought to adopt, that matter could not be left out
of sight. Well, then, it was to be considered what really
was the matter in dispute for which hostilities were to be-
gin, and it did not appear that that matter was one of very
great importance to the independence of Denmark, as it
went very little beyond what she herself had agreed to, and
consisted simply in the question to whom a portion of ter-
ritory should belong. On the other hand, any men who
were considering what advice in a very important—l do not
disguise its importance—European question should be given
to their Sovereign and recommended to Parliament, could
not possibly lose sight of the magnitude of the object, and
of the magnitude of the resistance which had to be over-
come, and of the comparative means which England and its
supposed antagonists would be able to bring to bear on the
question. It had been ascertained early in these transac-
tions that France, for reasons of which she was entitled to
be the judge, had declined to take any active measures in
support of Denmark. We knew that that disposition still
continued unchanged. We had ascertained that Russia,
for reasons of which she also was entitled to be the judge,
was not inclined to take any active measures in support of
Denmark. The whole brunt of the effort, therefore, what-
ever it might have been—namely, the effort to dislodge the
German troops and those who might come to their assist-
ance from the rest of Germany from Schleswig and Holstein
would fall upon this country alone. (Hear.) Well, sir,
we have not thought that it was consistent with our duty
to give our Sovereign advice to undertake such an enter-
prise. (Hear, and murmurs.) We know the honourable
sympathywhich the people of this nation feel for the unhappy
condition of Denmark; at the same time we did not think
it consistent with our duty to recommend that Parliament
and the country should make those great exertions, and to
undergo those great sacrifices, which would be the conse-
quence of entering into such a conflict with the whole of
Germany. (Hear.) I assume that in the present state of
things, upon which our decision was made, the real contest
lies between Germany and Denmark, with regard, I am afraid
I can hardly say that part of Schleswig in dispute, because
it is impossible to say that the dispute may not apply to
the whole of Schleswig—it will bo more honourable on the
part of the German Powers to be content with that which
they demanded ; but we know that strength and success
frequently carry men beyond that line which, on cooler re •
fiection, they might stand upon--but still the conflict is as
regards Schleswig, and not as regards the independence of
Denmark or the capital of the Danish monarchy. I do not
mean to say—and I think it right to put in that reservation
—that if the war should assume a different character, that
if the existence of Denmark as an independent Power in
Europe should be at stake—l do not mean to say that if we
were to find reason to expect that we should see at Copen-
hagen the horrors of a town taken by assault, the destruc-
tion of property, the sacrifice of the lives not only of its
defenders, but of its peaceful inhabitants, the confiscation
which would arise, the capture of the sovereign as a pri-
soner of war, or eventsof that kind—l do not mean to say, if
any of these events were likely to happen, that the position
of this country might not possibly be a fit subject for recon-
sideration—(oh, oh, and Ministerial cheers)—or that other
counsels might not be taken. But this I say, on the part of
the Government, that if any change of policy were thought
desirable, such change would be communicated to Parlia-
ment, if Parliament were sitting—and if Parliament were
not sitting, the earliest opportunity would be taken of ask-
ing for the judgment of Parliament on the subject. I have
to apologise to the house for having detained it so long. It
is not my wish to provoke discussion. My desire was to
explain as fully as I could the state of the matter. The
papers which will be in the hands of members to-morrow
morning will contain a full account of all that passed in the
Conference. All events which took place before the Con-
ference are already recorded in the papers which have been
some time before Parliament. Every member, therefore,
will by looking at those documents be capable of forming a
proper opinion as to the conduct of her Majesty's Govern-
ment in the management of these difficult negotiations.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI—I quite agree that it would be inconve-
nient that the house, on this occasion, should be led to
enter into a general discussion respecting the transactions
which have taken place between Denmark and Germany,
and the relations which the English Government bear to
those transactions. I trust the house will not be induced to
enter into a desultory discussion on that important subject.
One of the reasons why I rise to-night is to remind the house
of the exact position which it occupies with reference to this
matter. The house will recollect that, as far as the nego-
tiations of the Government in these questions between Den-
mark and Germany are concerned, the house has incurred
no responsibility whatever. (Hear.) Since the end of the
last session the house has given no opinion on the subject.
As I had some part in bringing about that position of the
house, perhaps it will not be considered presumptuous on
my part now to remind them of it. On the first night of
the session I reflected the feelings of gentlemen on this side
of the house in expressing my want of confidence in the
foreign policy of her Majesty's Government (Conservative
cheers)—and my disapprobation of the manner in which
negotiations had been carried on, especially in the North of
Europe, and the results which even then had been realised.
Had the papers been presented to the house on the meeting
of Parliament, according to custom, there would have been
no difficulty, probably before the month of February had
elapsed, in asking the opinion of the house upon the con-
duct of these negotiations. Indeed, what has occurred in
the Conference, judging from the narrative, perspicuous
though not satisfactory, given by the noble lord of what
otherwise has undoubtedly met the ears of many gentlemen
what has happened in the Conference has really very
little to do with the great question on which I think the
house ought to cone!, to a decision. The Conference was a
meeting which I think, by-the-by, has not been in its origin
accurately represented by the noble lord. That Conference
was not called at the desire of the neutral Powers, but by
one neutral Power alone, viz., Great Britain. It met
without a hope, and it closed without a hope. It met
without a basis, and therefore it led to no result. Let me
remind the house that from the period Parliament met
until the meeting of the Conference, the house had given
no approbation whatever of the conduct of the Government
with respect to these transactions. On the one occasion
alone that any opinion was sought by a formal motion
in the shape of a vote of want of confidence by an hon.
member opposite—on that occasion I myself interfered,
and moved the previous question, on the ground that
the circumstances which then presailed rendered it,
in my opinion, not expedient that Parliament should
give any opinion on the subject. Therefore her Majesty's
Ministers did not enter the Conference with the confidence
of Parliament, but with the previous question. That was
the position, as far as Parliament was concerned, upon
which they watered into that diacuabien, It is hocesaary

anythe hwoauyseeoroshroouftlfdedutnodoehrystaapnpdrochlaaetirolny
oft fahtethcoenydanrcet noofthienr
Majesty's Ministers in these matters. I think, however,
that the time has now arrived when some opinion of the
house ought to be, given. (Cheers and counter cheers.) I
myself, although five months have elapsed since the period
at which, as it now appears, that opinion might conveni-
ently and properly have been taken, do not regret the de-
lays which have been occasioned, because they were occa-
sioned by feelings on both sides of the house which do
honour to the House of Commons. I have always thought
that one of the principal reasons why the House of Com-
mons has been successful in its practical character, and so
marked out from all other popular assemblies, may be found
in the respect which it entertains for the prerogative of the
Crown and for the functions of constitutional Ministers
therefore I think the course which we then pursued was
wise, a temperate, and a patriotic course. At the same time
I must say it is my opinion that we should forfeit all claims
to the respect of our countrymen, and not fulfil one of the
highest functions of Parliament, if in the present critical
position of affairs we hesitated to give our opinions upon
the conduct of her Majesty's Ministers in this respect.
(Opposition cheers.) Having said so much on several oc-
casions, I must now say that it is my intention on an early
—I will say on the earliest—occasion, to take the opinion of
the house on that question. (Renewed cheers and counter
cheers.) I daresay I shall fiud no difficulty raised by the
noble lord (Palmerston) in fixing upon a period which I
may think most convenient. I should have said no more,
had it not been for the closing observation of the noble lord
which it appears to me ought not to pass unnoticed. (Hear•J
I must say I heard them with astonishment. Are we, then,
to be taught to Alight by the noble lord that it is the island:
of Denmark alone that are necessary to the independence
of that country ? Then why is it we have been corn'
mitted to a policy which has so long and so pertina•
ciously declared that the possession of Schleswig and 11°1'
stein by the crown of Denmark were necessary to the balance
of power, and to the maintenance of the public law of
Europe ? (Cheers.) It is too much for us now to hear, un•
der those circumstances, that war may be impending at an 3
moment, and that Parliament, which is soon to be pro
rogued, may be suddenly called together again, because the
noble lord and his colleagues, who for a considerable perio(
have been defining the grounds upon which the balance o
power and the maintenance of the public law of Europe
alone depend, and ought to be advocated, now at the las
moment find, while he recedes from the vital conclusion
that possibly a smaller issue may arise which in the interve
may agitate Europe and disturb and distract the publi
mind. I wust say I can only, atter the experience we bav
had on this subject—and it is some consolation to adol
that view of the question—look upon this as a continuanc
of those senseless and spiritless menaces—(hear, hear)-
which have lately impaired the influence of this country 11
the councils of Europe, and, by impairing that just influ
ence of this country in the councils of Europe had real':
diminished the most effective means of maintaining peso
(Cheers.) I think the noble lord might have spared the
contingent menace to the house, to the country, and t
Europe. Judging from the past, I myself would prefer tha
the affairs of this country should be conducted on the prie
ciple avowed by the hon. members for Rochdale and Ell
mingham, than by the policy which is avowed and an
nounced by the noble lord (Palmerston). I think in the
case, as the conclusion of those hon. members is alway
the same, our position would be more consistent, more pre
fitable, and more really dignified, for at least they would n(
threaten only—(hear)—at least, they would not tell Der
mark that "if she is attacked, she will not find hers'
alone"--(cheers)--at least, they would not exasperate Gel
many by declaiming in the Parliament of England again:
the aggravated outrages of her policy—at least they Won]
not lure on Denmark by delusive counsels and fallaciot
hopes. (Hear, hear.) I declare that, in my opinion, ti
position of England would be more dignified if the pone:
which those hon. gentlemen profess conducted our affaie
rather than the policy.which the noble lord professes. Ho
we not, indeed. for months upon months, been menacin
almost every country in the world; and yet when we thin
that we have at last secured the blessings of peace, an
when we pass over the gloomy narrative of those distil
pointments and discomfiturea which we have received th
evening, that at last we are in an intelligible position, or
might enj v what some may consider to have been purcharg
at great cost, but which was really and clearly to result 1
the possession of peace—we are at the same time not mere]
to have that announcement accompanied by the continuf
tion of those unsatisfactory menaces, but absolutely at th
moment the whole country is to be agitated with the pons
bility of Parliament being called suddenly together, in ord
that the noble lord may commence a policy of action whic
if it were justified and called for, ought to have been con
menced long ago. (Opposition cheers.) I trust that the
questions will be entered into fully and completely. Wit(
I listened to the narrative which the noble lord has favour(
us with of these transactions, of the continued sacrifices
Denmark, and of the continued approaches of the enemi(
of Denmark, I was not surprised to find that the nable log
entirely omitted any notice of the inducements which Ilt
made Denmark submit to those sacrifices, or of the menac
to the aggressive Powers which have always been treat'
with contempt. I should like to have had, when the pret
of the proceedings was given by the First Minister, son
account of the causes of the dreary consequences which I
narrated. 'We shall soon have an opportunity of enteric
into that matter. I expect from the courteous promise
the noble lord that he will make no difficulties with respe
to the day when I shall venture to ask the opinion of tl
house upon the policy of the Government, and I will tat
care that no unnecessary delay occurs before 1 avail rays(
of that opportunity. (Cheers,)
The motion was then agreed to.
THE ANNUITY TO THE KING OF GREECE.

On the or,:er for going into Committee of Supply,
Mr AYRTON moved a resolution that the grant to ti
King of Greece of an annuity of £4,000 out of the Make:
belonging to the Consolidated Fund by treaty not ma'
subject to the sanction of Parliament, is a violation of tl
privileges of tho House of Commons.
Upon an explanation by the CHANCELLOR of the El
CIIEQUER, he withdrew the motion.

Mr M. SMITH called attention to the buildings and she
used for the superior courts of law and equity, and t
inadequate accommodation afforded by them ; and also
the delay on the part of the Government to introduce the
promised measure for providing new courts of justice.
A discussion followed, in which the ATIORNEY GENER'
and Mr CowPER indicated the views and intentions of tt
Government on the subject.

Mr ADD ERLEY, who had given notice of a resolute'
that it is inexpedient that detachments of British troo
should be stationed upon exposed posts on the Canadit
frontier unless adequately supported by Canadian force
discussed at considerable length the policy pursued toWar
Canada.

Mr CARD WELL concurred in the proposition contaill
in Mr Adderley's resolution, and agreed in many of 1
observations. He stated the changes made in Canada, esr
cially with reference to the militia, the training of office]
and the preliminary arrangements for the organisation a
good defensive native force.

Some remarks by Lord R. CECIL upon the danger
which Canada was exposed were answered by Mr
FORTESCUE, who stated that preparations had been Icati
and were making to meet future danger.
Mr CAVE called attention to the conduct of the Cu
toms authorities of the United States at New York
refusing clearances to British ships engaged in legitirot
trade between chat port and Jamaica, except upon t
most onerous and unusual conditions; and asked whet'
instructions would not be sent to Lord Lyons to Prot'
against such proceedings.
Mr LAYARD said the conditions referred to were 1
yond the competency of the United States to illiP°s
protests had already been made, and the subject W°l
not be lost sight of.

Col. DUNNE called attention to the subject of recrt
ing for the army, and to the causes of the unwilling'
of men to enlist, which created a difficulty, he said,
keeping up the numbers of the troops. He noticed some
the causes which he considered to be removable, and st
gested the encouragements that should be given.
The Marquis of HARTINGTON said ho was very gl
that this subject had been brought before the house, I
cause a very considerable amount of misapprehension
isted regarding it. As to the falling off in recruiting, vi
little recruiting had been necessary, and the recruiting 11
chinery had been lately disused. The number of men
cruited had been, however, sufficient to meet the wants
the year. lie thought it unnecessary, therefore, to disc'
the reasons which prevented men from enlisting, for tir
was no present want of men.
The house was at length able to go into a Committee
Supply upon the remaining Civil Service Estimates)
discussion of which :acted till past midnight.
The report of the Inland Revenue (Stamp Duties)
gave rise to a short debate.
The Chimney sweepers' Regulation Bill was read a ill
time and passed.
The Greek Loan 1301 passed the Committee, after rail
discussion.
The remaining orders were disposed of, and the VI
adjourned at a quarter past 2 o'clock.

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London : Printed and PrbUshed by WILLIAM ANDItt,
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