The Sun.
London, England, 1864-01-18 00:00:00

The French Legislative Assembly,

?anis, Jan. 15.
The Legislative Body sat yesterday—Duke de
Morny in the c hair.
M. Rouher, Minister of State ; M. Roul and,
Minister presiding over the Council of State ; and
the doer Government CommiY.sioners were in their
usual places.
The order of the day was the adjourned discus-
sion on the Address, the points under consideration
being the amendment relative to the electoral ques-
tion.

M. Thiers—Gentlemen, two amendments were
presented on the electoral system. The first has
been rejected, and I now rise to speak in support
of the second, not that I have the hope or the pre-
tension to obtain its adoption, but because of an
understanding come to some six weeks since, whets
I wished to make some observations on the elections,
that I should reserve what I had to say till the. de-
bates on the Address. In entering on this r'eiscus-
sion the first obstacle I encounter is the allegation
that our object is to weaken the moral anthority of
the Chamber. Allow me to remove this obstacle.
The law has constituted you supreme judges in
electoral matters, and you have given your decisions
on the late elections. The question has therefore
been definitely decided, and I declare to the majo-
rity, without the least intention of flattery, for at
my time of life a ran has no need to flatter any
power on earth, that I deeply respect it and bow to
its decisions. Ido not hold all your opinions, nor
do you hold all mine. To my great regret I shall
be compelled to vote against you, but I neverthe-
less entertain the utmost respect for your intentions.
I must beg your permission to make one remark.
(" Go on, go on.'') You are in the position of a
Power which has not met with any serious opposi-
tion ; contradiction surprises and offends you.
When, like me, you shall have passed long years
under the weight of contradiction you will bear it
better. I now come to the point under discussion.
We think that with regard to principles, the Govern-
ment pushes them to extremes, and that its moles
of proceeding are not all good. You will say that
our opinion is open to suspicion, because the proceed-
ings in question have been directed against ourselves.
I admit this, but for the same reasons you are also
liable to suspicion. (Movement.) What makes
me think that our opinion is not altogether wrong is
that I do not see among the Ministers the individual
Minister who directed the elections. I cannot think
that his services would have been dispensed with
had his conduct been altogether irreproachable.
Tnis appears to justify our opinion. We shall be
told that as the Minister is no longer in power our
reproaches are uncalled for. I do not like finding
fault, and should not now address you had the pro-
ceedings of which we complained ceased when the
Minister retired from office ; but from what has
recently passed, and what is now passing in the
Bas-Rhin there seems to be a kind of persistency
approaching to bravado. That is why I insist on
this question. I do not dispute the pretensions of
the Government to have its candidates, and to mani-
fest its preference. I admit the principle of official
candidates, but I shall perhaps be told that I do so on
account of my own conduct when Minister of the
Interior. It was not so, however, for I have come
to this conclusion, purely from conviction, without
any reference to my own antecedents. I have re-
cently reperused the verification of powers in 1534.
when I was Minister of the Interior. It was
shortly after the insurrection of April, and great
exeitement prevailed. Four elections were annulled
by the Chamber, and I beg your attention to the
grounds for those decisions. The first election was
quashed because the candidate, who had been a
Prefect, had not retired from his functions for a
soacet of six months, as required by law ; the second
on account of the candidate's electoral qualification
being disputed; and the third, because the person
elected was found to want ono vote to make the
necessary majority. As to the fourth election, the
motive which led to its being annulled was remark.
able. The ballot was not commenced at the time
appointed, and only remained open four hours in-
stead of six, and for that reason the election was in-
validated. Such was at the time the rigorous con-
duct observed in case of elections. What was the re-
proach made against us? A member of the Cham-
ber spoke of a /age de paix who had been threatened
with dismissal by a functionary, when the Minister
of Justice ascended th© tribune and said that if the
functionary who had done so were known he would
be himself dismissed. Tnere were among the can-
didates of that period a son-in-law of Marshal Mor-
tier. The Sub-Prefect of the Arrondissement, in a
private letter to two or three mayors, said that the
election of that candidate would be agreeable to the
Royal family. On hearing of the fact I disavowed
the Sub-Prefect, reprimanded him publicly, and
ordered that the King's name should never be men-
tioned in election matters. (Approbation on several
benches.)
A Voice—Yon were then a responsible Minister.
Thiers—You perceive that we were then very
severe with regard to elections. Nevertheless I
accept official candidateships, but on certain condi-
tions. Where is the foundation of the right of the
Government to publicly designate its candidates to
be found? I fiad rules for the point in free coun-
tries, and even there the right is limited. If a die.
tatorship exists there is no need of discussion. It
is therefore, I repeat, in free countries that we must

seek for the rules which serve as the foundation of
official candidateships, and I look for it in England,
the freest of all. There all opinions are divided
into two great parties, one which impels the coun-
try towards what is called progress—a vague word,
which I do not much admire, for it may contain evil
as well as good—the other wishing to prevent the
country from going too fast. The former of those

opinions calls itself Liberal, and the latter Conser-
vative. In England the Liberals take the name of
Whigs, and their adversaries that of Tories ; in
Belgium the corresponding terms are Liberals
and Catholics. Both of those opinions are good,
according to the time that is passing. When a
country is in the background and some of its
institutions out of date, as in the case of the
rotten boroughs in England, the Whigs are
right ; on the other hand, when the forward
movement is too rapid, the Tories do well to check
it. Although I am not quite so old as certain jour.
nsls pretend, I have several times seen the Whigs
and the Tories succeed each other in power, and
always for the benefit of the country. In Belgium,
thanks to the foresight of the wise and prudent
King who reigns there—and only reigns—the
Catholics and the Liberals have succeeded each other,
and repaired their mutual faults. Both have, there-
fore, been of use. What are the rights of those
different opinions ? When the Whigs are in oposi-
tion they support their candidates by means of their
journals, their meetings, and their subscriptions,
and they certainly do not lose that right when the
party comes into power. In free countries the Go-
vernment is nothing more than an opinion which
has attained power, and does not for that reason
lose its rights; it, however, contracts duties. What
are those duties ? The first is to respect propriety.
This is not an absolute but a relative duty ; the ob-
servance may be less rigid in the lower classes of
society, but it is stringent in the higher degree of
propriety. The second of those duties is that of not
abusing, in favour of this or that candidate, the
Power which Government places in the hands of its
agents. Uuder these conditions all opinions have
the right of self-defence, and even that of spreading
themselves abroad. In England, where there is
little or no centralisation, the temptation for parties
in power to exceed their duty is not very strong;
but in France, the resources which centralisation
places in the hands of the Government agents are
immense, and to abstain from doing them demands
hf abnegation of a stoic. It is your part, gentle-
men, to become, if not absolute stoics, at least men
Who respect the duties imposed on them by their
position. Of all the points of decorum that ought
to be respected, the first is not to allow the name of
the Sovereign to figure in an electoral contest. But
you all know that, in a great number of elections,
official candidates have been presented to the country
as candidates of the Emperor.
Several voices—Of the Emperor's Government.
M. Thiers—l beg pardon ; there were some, in-
deed, called as you
8;5, but there wore others dis-
tinctly called candidates of the Emperor. If the

contrary can be proved, I shall bow to the truth.
The Minister of State said the other day that the
electoral contest was only the continuation of that
which takes place here among the representatives
of the country. I admit that assimilation, and ask
if any one of you, gentlemen, would presume to
pronounce to us such a phrase as " The Emperor
will have it so." No one would dare to do this.
Therefore, as you would not so use the name of the
Emperor in this Chamber, why should you do so
in presence of electors ? And in what a position
you place a candidate whom you repudiate, but
who is nevertheless elected ! You do not contest
his oath. How, then, can you say he is the enemy
of the Emperor ? Why treat him as such ? Who
has told you that he is so ? For my part, I repeat
the words which were spoken here the day before
yesterday—namely, that all those who entered this
Chamber had but one object—to make their ideas
penetrate into the mind of the Government. That
is the truth, and it is wrong to say at elections that
a candidate is an enemy. And the electors them■
selves ! What will happen if you declare them all
enemies of the Emperor ? What will it be said
after the result of the late elections that during the
last few years the Emperor has made himself two
millions of enemies? As I wish to avoid strong
language, I shall content myself with repeating that
to call a candidate or electors enemies is to commit
a great imprudence, and I dwell on the point be-
cause it is desirable that all abuses of language
should be suppressed—(assent)—the more so because
when moderation is lost sight of in speech, it is often
violated in act; and it may be feared that those
who so abuse the name of the Emperor may be
forced into active measures of a more serious cha-
racter. We make an immense concession in allow-

ing you your official candidateships; but we give
them only on condition of the most rigorous ab-
stention on your part. Without that moderation
the danger would be considerable in presence of
our system of centralisation. Of that centralisa-
eion I myself, as every body knows, have been the
defender ; it is the principle of French great-
ness ; it has given us clearness in our ac‘
counts, order and immediate readiness in our
means of action, as was seen when France
decided on war in the month of March, 1859,
and had 200,000 men in Italy in the fist days
of April. Ido not wish to compromise this cen-
tralisation. I remember what a great diplomatist,
M. Pozzo di Borgo, said to me on this subject in
1830. I was complaining of the Treaties of 1815,
and he said, " You complain that we have taken
from you a part of you: territory, but we have left
you a unity which gives you an immense force, and
which will one day become a danger to ourselves."
I replied to him, " You have left us that unity be-
cause you could not take it from us." (Applause.)
Therefore, as it could not be taken from us, let us
not fling it away ourselves. Allow me to indicate
briefly the bases of centralisation. In the adminis-
trative class you have the prefects, sub-prefects,
,mayors, and all their agents. If we allow all these
functionaries to be nominated by the State we think
it necessary that the mayors should be taken from

the municipal council, and that they should not be
removable at the pleasure of the Government. In
the judicial order you have the non•removable

judges, who are worthy of all respect, and the re-
movable functionaries, as honourable, but depen-
dent. I can understand that these latter should be
at the dlsposal of the Government; they do not pro-
nounce judgments, they merely administer justice.
But attached to these Courts there are notaries, ad-
vocates, huissiers ; and you know well what is the
influence of a Procureur-Imperial. I have here a
letter from a huissier of the Bas,lthin, where an
election is now about to take place, and he declares
that he cannot act by reason of the menaces he has
received. Next, there is the Finance Department,
where the subordinates are numerous and constitute
a great power in the hands of the Government. The
Ministers of Marine and War are also very power-
ful. The former holds in his hands the fortunes of
the men serving on board, and might in a few hours
send a certain nnmber to sea-

M. Rouher, Minister of State—For e!cctoral pur-
poses ? A Minister wha should do that would be
impeached.
M. Thiers—l might quote facts did I not fear to
go beyond the bounds of respect. I endeavour to
be courteous towards my adversaries, although
you are sometimes hard upon yours. I have no
wish to weaken any part of the French Adminis-
tration, but in the election of Cambrai, which was

annulled, was there not a circular which proves the

power exorcised by the M inister of War over the
conscripts ? In our country the State, in fact, does
everything ; at one time it encourages science and
the arts, and at another assists communes by the
construction of a road, or by endowing it with a
school. When such a power interferes with the elec-
tors of universal suffrage, what becomes of liberty
of voting ? All the innumerable agents of the State
who were living quietly among the people become
on the eve of elections, by orders received from Paris,
first silent and then hostile. As far as regards myself
personally, I have seen agents of the authority with
whom I have been on friendly terms compelled to

tell the country that I was a dangerous man. I
accept official candidates ; but on condition that the
law is respected. The execution of the electoral law

is very difficult in Franca, because it so frequently

changes. The Government has a right to trace cut
the circumscriptions; but it is proper that on the
approach of a new or general election those districts

should be changed, in order to favour particular can-
didates ? With regard to the electoral lists, there
are some localities where they do not exist, as was
proved during the late verification of qualifications.
Is it true that the publications made by the non-

official candidates meet with impediments which
their Government opponents are not subjected to
If ao, the mayors ought to receive more formal in-
structions. The law enacts secrecy for the vote, and
that the bulletin shall be written out of the balloting
room, and be deposited in the urn by the elector ;
and yet there may be seen on the table of the office
packets of the bulletins of the Government candi-
date, but none of his opponents. When I concede
to you official candidates I can only do so on condi-
tion of respect for propriety, abstention from the
means of action at the disposal of the Government,
and strict observance of the law. If you do not accept
these conditions I cannot accord official candidate-
ships. We are in presence of universal suffrage,
which is a dangerous institution, and the Govern.
ment ought to have the means of directing it. In giv-
ing that suffrage have you given liberty to the con-
trary ? If the former, do not employ the means you
now adopt. I know not what the result of univer-

sal suffrage may be in the future, but I see what it
is now. I am convinced that if fewer attempts were
made to enlighten it there would perhaps be more
means of control in the bodies of the State, and. in-
stead of sacrificing the Government to which you are
attached you would perhaps save it. (Interruption.)
The President—The Government has no fear of
being sacrificed, and has no need of being saved.
M. Thiers—Do not distort my meaning.
The President--I have made that observation to
you because I am sure you will give a satisfactory

explanation.
M. Thiers—Let there not be sought for in nay
words any idea of a threat of any kind. What I
wish to express is not a menace but a warning.
(Movement; approbation on several benches.)
M. Rouhor—Let me be allowed to say something
also on the question of official candidates, and reply
both to M. Jules Favre and M. Thiers, the more so
that the difference of opinion which existed between
these two orators seems to have disappeared by the
last observations made by M. Thiers. M. Favre
does not admit such candidateships at all ; M. Thiers
does, but on condition that they shall be merely
platonic. The difference is not so great as to oblige
me to consider those gentlemen in the light of two
distinct adversaries. Let me, then, consider the
right of intervention:of the Government in elections,
and the means this latter ought to employ, and also
the part played by the Opposition during the last
elections. I shall then examine the results, and
endeavour to deduce from it the political bearing of
the election of the 31st of May. As to the right of
Government intervention, I have already defended
it elsewhere, and affirmed it here a few days ago.
The Government cannot remain a passive spectator
of an operation in which its existence is at stake as
well as its policy; an operation in which unexpected

complications and secret passions may be brought
into play, and during which imprudent promises may
be whispered into the ears of misery or excitement;
an operation which sets 10 million of electors in mo-
tion in the midst of conflicting passions, the conse-
quences of which might become dangerous. The
passiveness of the Government in such a question
would be tantamount to abdication, and to this we
cannot consent. The intervention of Government
at elections is justified by common sense and the
nature of things, as well as by tradition; and to
prove this I will merely quote all the declarations
made on this right under the system which was the
cradle of that constitutional monarchy which you
love so much, the Government of July, and also
under the Republic. if these quotations are not
useful to the Chamber, they will be so out of doors.
In 1816 Duke Decazes wrote to the prefects :—"The
confidence of his Majesty in the prefects will not
be deceived. They will leave nothing undone to
keep away from the Chamber about to be elected
both the enemies of the throne and legitimacy who
are desirous of overthrowing one and destroying the
other; and the imprudent friends who have the pre-
tension of serving the King otherwise than he
wishes to be served." On the 20th of January, 1824,
the Minister of Justice wrote to the Procureurs-
Generaux, " The Government requires the Pro-
cureurs du Roi, the officers of justice, and ministerial
officers to co-operate loyally, actively, and effica-
ciously in the elections. The Government appoints
to public offices in order to be served and seconded."
On the 20th of March, 1826, M. de Martignac, in
his report on the bill relating to the permanence of
the lists, declared that " the influence of Government
over elections is necessary to counterbalance that
which is exercised against it, and that it could not,
without failing in its first duty, give itself up un-
armed to its adversaries." We come to 1830—a
revolution has occurred, passions are over-excited,
the electoral struggle begins, and M. Casimir Perier
Minister of the Interior writes to the Prefects " that
the Government does not intend remaining neutral
in the elections, and that the Administration must
not remain so either. Between the impartiality
which it must always observe," be adds, " and
neutrality the distance is immense." I would not
quote M. Theirs's opinion. He has described the
ejections of 1834 with great sincerity ; as to his
exactness, M. Glais-Bizoin, who was elected in 1834,
will tell him that he considered those elections to
have been the most detestable and odious operation
possible.
Glais-Binin—l think so still.

M. Rouher—Has time filled up the gulph that existed
between you and M. Thiers ? 1 should not be astonished if
it had, for of late I have observed that time has filled up
abysses still deeper than that. (Much applause.) In 1834,
as I was saying, the elections took place in the midst of an
agitation caused by events that had ensanguined the streets
of Lyons and Paris ; and the same principles were prevalent.
In 1846 Count Duchatel wrote, on Sept. 6 :—" There are
certain absolute opinions which pretend that the Adminis-
tration ought to remain impassible and inactive during the
elections. No Cabinet has ever done so; we do not com-
plain of attacks, but what would become of a Government
which, when unremittingly assailed, should abstain from
defending itself ?" The elections took place, and were veri-
fied with extreme ardour. Doubtless, M. Thiera himself
did not find that all properties had been respected, for the
word corruption resounded throughout the whole of France,
The year 1848 arrived. M. Jules Favra has not recoiled
from the task of defending with his great oratorical energy
the acts of that epoch; he has told us that the Government
of those days had no official candidates ; that it exercised no
pressure on elections; that it saved France, and that it
found all Frenchmen rallying themselves around it with an
ardour unknown under a monarchy. And can you then
affirm that the Government of 1848 did not intervene at
elections ? I assert that it not only exercised its rights, but
even abused them. A few citations will show this. In the
month of March the Minister of the Interior wrote to the
Commissaries of the Republic, "You must now occupy
yourselves with the elections--your powers are unlimited!;
agents of a revolution, you also are revolutionary ; the
victory of the people has imposed on youthe mandato of
consolidating the work in the name of public safety." Pub-
lic safety I A sinister expression which carries us back to
another epoch I On March 15th the second bulletin told
the Commissioners to be on their guard against the Royalist
party. Vie were the Royalists of those days. " Paris,'
said that bulletin, "is the heart and the brain of France.''
Several Voices—That is it.

M. Rouher—l have been asked what I was doing at that
time. I was struggling against the ♦iolence of the Ultra-
Republicans in my province, and I remember that they
threatened to throw us into the Seine if we were elected.
On April 15, 1343, it was written that if the elections did
not ensure the triumph of truth, they would be the ruin of
the Republic; and that then the pc•ple who made the bar-
ricades would have but one course for safety, that of mani-
festing their will afresh, and adjourning the decisions of a
false national representation. "Is it pos,ible," it was said,
" that France can desire to force Paris to have recourse to
this Extreme and deplorable remedy ? ' (Sensation.)

31. Pelletan—Those words have been disavowed.
M. E. Picard—Did you contest the bulletin when it ap..
peared ?
N. Rouher—To M. Pelletan I reply. Yes, the bulletin
was disavowed, but after the elections had been made.
(Noise.) It was said that it had been published by mistake
instead of another, but it nevertheless weighed on the mind
of France, and excited general indignation. M. Picard asks
me if I protested.

M. Thiers—But we aro not in the question.
M. Rouher—l can understand the interruption of M.
Thiers. His recollections are painful, bat we must know
how to accept all solidarities—those of the past as well as
those of the present.
Some Voices —No, no.
M. Picard—Confine yourself to your own parts. (Noise.)
M. Thiers—At the epoch of which you speak I was on
your side. (Renewed noise.)
M, Rouher vindicated the right of the Government to in-
terfere in the elections, alleging the examples of all previous
Governments from 1815 to 1818, in favour of the practice.
He alleged that the Government could not make further
concessions whilst there were hostile parties whose hopes
were still directed to the overthrow of the Government.
Jules Favre could not obtain a hearing, and the amend-
ment, affirming the principle of non-interference of the
Government in the elections, was negatived—but the large-
ness of the minority, 44 votes, is considered as a triumph
for the Opposition.

CURIOUS DISCOVERY OF PICTURES AT GLOU..
CESTER.—The town-house of the wealthy family of
Guise, a mansion of about Queen Anne's period, has lately
been occupied as a school of art ; and during the alteration
for this purpose, a projection of panelling in a small
sitting-room, called "Pope's room," was removed, when a
fine portrait of Pope was discovered behind it. On re-
moving the panelling on the opposite side another painting
was revealed, since said to be the " Temptation," by Guido,
A man in a rich dress of the time of Francois I. is holding
up a string of pearls to a woman, who appears to bo resist-
ing his tempting offer. It is described as a remarkably fine
painting. The pictures are now in the possession of Mr.
Baylis, Thames-bank, Fulham.

RAILWAY OPENINGS IN LONDON.-A railway,
with branches, for the Isle of Dogs, 13 new bridges
over the Thames, one new Thames Tunnel, two railways to
go through the existing Thames Tunnel, a railway in the
middle of the river itself, with stations at each of the
bridges, new docks in the Isle of Dogs, nearly as largo as
the East and West India Doeks put together, a dock in
South Lambeth, new Courts of Justice, the crossing of Hol-
born Valley by a viaduct, Pneumatic Despatch tubes, a
new arcade from Regent-street to Bond-street, a railway
diagonally across Hyde Park, another transversely through
ensington Gardens, two lines down Constitution Hill,
going on through St. James's Park and uader, or over, the
Admiralty; the classic land of Alsatia, or Whitefriars,
scored for nine branches or junctions,the single street called
Houndsditch contended for by tour competing lines, that
Paradise of Mr. A. Smee's imagination, Finsbury Circus, the
Promised Land of engineers, demanded by three companies,
and—before our breath is gone, let us condemn the last we
can contrive to name—a bridge to connect the thickly po-
pulated and highly salubrious district of Battersea with
Chelsea—a thing fatal to the beauty of Cheyne Walk, the
most picturesque street near ;—these are a few of the sub.
jects upon which the House of Commons will have to de.
tide in the approaching session.

No HOME complete without A WILCOX AND GIRDS'
SEWING-KACIIINE. Simple, compact, efficient, durable, and
noiseless. Warranted to fulfil all the requirements of a
perfect family machine. Prospectus free on application at
No. Regent-street, W.—[AnvT.J

[AnvEwrismr.Nr.]—Consumption, all nervous, bilious
liver, and atenaach complaints, in every stage, are only ag-
gravated and accelerated by drugs of every description, but
perfectly curable by Du Barry's health restoring Revalenta
Arabica Food, as proved by thousands of cases which had
been considered hopeless. We quote a few.—Cure No. 62,914.
Miss Lange, 18 years of age, cured after the medical men had
abandoned all hope; of her recovery from the last stage of
pulmonary consumption, with fearful cough, expectoration;
exhaustion, spitting of blood, perspirations, hollow cheeks,
emaciated to a skeleton. She is now, thank God, a perfectly
healthy, blooming, fleshy girl.—N. Lange, Commissaire de
Police. Cure, No. 46,270. Mr. James Roberts of Friraley
Surrey, of thlA•ty years' diseased lungs, spitting of blood, liver
derangement, and partial deafness.—Cure, No. 47,121. Miss
low spirits, and nervous fancies.—Cure, No.
Elizabeth Jacobs, of extreme nervousness, indigestion,
54,816. Me Rev. James T. Campbell, Pakenham, Norfolk
of
,
indigestionrr and torpidity of the liver, which had resisted
all medical reatment. In tins, 11b, 2s ; 21b, 4a 6d ; 51b
lie; 121 b, ,
,
')2s• 241 b, 40s. Barry du Barry and Co., No. 77,
gatherings,
Regent-street, London ; also Fortnum and Mason; and all
~rocers and chemists 11l every town of the United Kingdom.