The Sun.
London, England, 1852-12-28 00:00:00

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repeat the statement—that from the period of the general
election down to the present time I had seen indliations
that there was such a concert among different parties and
different individuals. After the statement of the noble
earl to-night, I of course acquit him altogether of being
a party to such combination, or of being actuated by such
motives ; but I am sure the noble earl and your lordships
will forgive me if I now venture to state the grounds on
which I ventured to form that opinion, grounds with
which I did not trouble your lordships formerly, and with
which I would not have troubled you now if the noble
earl had not adverted to it. At the general election, of
course, addresses were issued to the various consti-
tuencies by gentlemen representing different opinions,
between which, however, I cannot consider, with the
noble earl, that there is a distinction without a difference.
(Hear, hear.) Among others, a right hon. baronet, with
whom I had the pleasure for many years of living on
terms of the closest intimacy, a right hon. baronet who
in his early youth represented the Radical constituency
of Carlisle—who has represented various places and
various constituencies in the interim—has returned
again to his former constituents at Carlisle—has confessed

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[PRICE 5D

national education. It is a want which this country
strongly desires to see supplied, and which has engaged
the attention of all who have of late years undertaken
the direction of public affairs. lam old enough to ye-
collect.the introduction into this country of the Bell and
Lancaster system of education, and I well remember
the apprehensions it excited, the opposition it encoun-
tered ; but by degrees these have ceased, and the only
difference amongst now is, not upon the point whether
education should be general and universal, but upon the
mode in which that can best be effected. I admit that
the subject is full of difficulties, and is attended with
very grave considerations. It is, undoubtedly, my
desire— recognising as I do the vital importance of the
religious element in all education—to see the due in-
fluence of the Church exercised in education, consis-
tently with that perfect right and freedom which all
men are entitled to expect in such a matter in this coun-
try, and which it has long been our pride to acknowledge.
There is another want which I may say the people have
demanded, and that has been the progress of those law
reforms, which, introduced by her Majesty's former
Government, has been taken up by the learned lord on
the woolsack, and has been prosecuted with so much
vigour, ability, and success in his hands. This course
must still be pursued, and I have no doubt it will
meet with the concurrence of your lordships, and finally
give that satisfaction which the public have a right to
anticipate. Whether by the extension of education, or
by the progress of law reform, I trust that the sOciaT
condition of the country will be materially improved. I
trust that by a cautious and steady progress, which it
will be our endeavour to make in all such matters as
contribute to the welfare and happiness of the people,
that both intellectdally and materially the condition of
the people will be greatly improved. This will not ex-
clude the amendment of the representative system, not
rashly or hastily undertaken, but by a safe and well-
sidered measure ; and, my lords, I think it can scarcely
be denied that some amendment of this description is
necessary, and unquestionably the events of the last
election have not been such as to render any man more
enamoured of the present system. (Hear, hear.) The
noble lord opposite (the Earl of Derby) referred the other
night to the existence of a Conservative Government,
and expressed surprise and curiosity as to how I should
be enabled to carry on the services of the Crown sur-
rounded by those persons with whom I was likely to be
associated. Now, my lords, I declare to the noble earl
that in my opinion no Government in this country is
now possible except a Conservative Government ; and I
beg to give him this further declaration, which I take to
be as undoubtedly true, that no Government in this
country is now possible except a Liberal Government.
(Hear, hear.) The truth is, these terms have no definite
meaning. I never should have thought of approaching
my noble friend the' member for the city of London
unless I felt he was Conservative, and I am sure he
would never have associated himself with me unless
he thought I was liberal. (Hear, hear.) These terms
may be convenient to keep up for the sake of party elec-
tions, but the country is sick of these distinctions which
have no real meaning, and prevent men from acting to-
gether who are able to perform good service to the
Crown and to the country ; and therefore, my lords, I
trust, in the highest acceptation of the term, whatever
thhe measures proposed by her Majesty's present Go-
vernment may be, they will be Conservative measures as
well as Liberal measures, for I consider both qualities
to be essentially necessary. (Hear, hear.) The noble
lord also referred to the necessity of resisting the en-
croachment of democracy. lam quite ready to unite
with him in resisting the encroachment of democracy or
any other encroachment of an illegal character. But I
am at a loss to see where this democracy exists. I look
in vain for any such indications of encroachment at the
present moment. On the contrary, I should say I never
recollect the time when this country was more tranquil,
more contented, less abounding in subjects of danger and
alarm, than at the present moment. (Hear, hear.) And
this prosperity, this contentment, and happiness, I be-
lieve to be mainly owing to the system which Sir Robert
Peel established, and which it is our business to uphold
and extend. (Hear, bear.) No doubt speculative men
and fhoiig]ltfiaa,,ita~ lierre--,11-tbnea eeuntryin•
their closets come to the conclusion that a democratic
form of Government might be preferable to a monarchial
form of Government, but these are not the men who
overturn states, and are therefore not dangerous. In a
state of society like ours, that there must always be men
reckless, violent, and unprincipled, ready for any excess
and outrage, is but too true ; but at the same time I
feel there is less reason to entertain such apprehensions
at the present moment than I ever felt in the course
of my life. (Hear.) I have great confidence in the
people of this country, and I do believe that the imputa-
tion of even the existence of any cause for alarm at this
moment is almost a libel on the people of this country.
(Hear.) I regret that the noble earl should have spoken
in a tone which indicated hostility to her Majesty's Go-
vernment. I regret it deeply, because I well know the
vast powers of the noble earl. lam well aware of all
that he is able to do. But I believe that we have a good
cause, and I trust that if it can only be made clearly
manifest that we are sincerely animated by a real desire
to promote the welfare of the great body of the people,
that we shall have the support of the country, as I am
sure we shall have the approbation of your lordships.
(Hear, hear.) My lords, I beg to move that the house
at its rising do adjourn to Thursday the 10th February.
The Earl of DERBY : My lords, so much do I con-
cur with what the noble earl has stated, and there is so
little in the programme which he has explained to the
house of, which I feel I have cause to complain, that I
should hardly have thought it incumbent on me to rise
on the present occasion, unless the noble earl had ad-
verted to me in such a personal manner as to render it
impossible for me to abstain altogether from making
some reply, and in a manner which convinces me that
the noble earl has been misinformed of some of the cir-
cumstances under which I addressed your lordships on a
previous occasion. (Hear;hear.) In particular, I can
assure the noble earl, that if any one has informed him
that I expressed a hostile intention towards his Govern-
ment, he has received information that is altogether
erroneous. I stated, on the contrary, what I hope your
lordships will forgive me for repeating—though lam
sure the noble earl will believe that I could have stated
nothing inconsistent with the high respect I have ever
entertained for his many estimable qualities—l stated
that if the party of which the noble earl was at the
head acted upon those principles which I believe he held
in common with myself, then, though I might be doubt-
ful how far he could carry them out in conjunction with
his new associates, still he would receive from me and
my friends, if not a cordial, at all events a conscientious '
support—that he would receive greater forbearance than
I thought had been exhibited to us—and that in particu-
lar he might rely upon it he would be encountered with
no such combination as had been resorted to in order to
eject us. Those were the sentiments which I venture to
take the present opportunity of repeating now. (Hear,
hear.) I felt then, and I feel now, no hostility towards
the noble earl—personally I am sure the noble earl will
not suspect me of feeling any—politically I feel none;
and I rejoice to find that the noble earl intends to con-
duct the Administration on the principles he has laid
down. The noble earl also used the term, not once, but
over and over again—the term as having proceeded from
me—of concert and combination against the Govern-
ment. My lords, no such expression fell from my lips to
the best of my judgment, belief, and conviction. (Hear,
hear.) What I stated then I hope your lordships will
not think I am idly wasting your time if I state again,
because I am convinced, notwithstanding the denials to
which some of my statements were subjected on the pre-
vious occasion, that what I stated on that occasion, wasi
to the extent to which it went, based on facts and not
on surmises. I felt it incumbent on me to state to the
house, and to prove to the house, that I had not lightly
and without cause thrown down the heavy responsibty
which devolved upon me with the acceptance otf.
office ; because I felt that as much responsibility.bal
tached to lightly surrendering office as could poslsi y
attach to lightly accepting it ; and I stated to your ord._
ships that, if we had been defeated on any
matter of
minor importance, and not involving the question of ge-
neral support to the Government, I would not have con-
sidered myself justified in resigning office, much as I
might have felt that the Government would have been
thereby weakened in the proper discharge of its func-
tions. But I stated to your lordship what was the posi-
tion of the house at the close of the last general election,
and I showed that the position of the house was such
that, though her Majesty's Government had the confi-
dence of the largest amount of any single party, yet it
had not the confidence of the full moiety of the house, so
that it was in the power of all the other parties, by
coin.
bining together on any vote, to put the Government into
a minority ; and I stated—l am sorry to be obliged to

his little infidelities, deviating at one time into Whiggism,
at another time into Conservatism ; but who has con-
fessed that he has now found the error of his ways, and
that he has returned again to the faithful bosom of his
constituents and to those loved Radical principles to
which he at first professed his attachment. (Hear,
hear.) The right hon. baronet, therefore—and I am
sure the noble earl will agree with me that between the
right hon. baronet and myself the difference is not with-
out a very broad distinction—that right hon. baronet,
in an address to his constituents, charged her Majesty's
late Government that they were a Government without
principle, in proof of which he adduced the language
held by different supporters of the Government at vari-
ous places, and then the right hon. baronet placed the
issue upon one ground. He said that support was
claimed for the Government upon one_ground—confi-
-dence in the Earl of Derby. Now, he would place the
issue on a footing equally clear—the footing of opposition
to the Government. That was the footing on which he
would unite all classes into one. That was the principle
which the right hon. baronet adopted. He stated
that for thirty-four years his life was before the
public, that he was an ardent reformer, a frieneof
the Church, and I forget what other points -he enu.
merated ; but he added it was with pain he must add
that he was a decided opponent of Lord Derby. I hope,
therefore, I do. not wrong the right hon. baronet, if, on
his own declaration, I assume that, though he belongs
still to the Conservative rank, and communing, as I
know he did, frankly and freely with gentlemen of Con-
servative opinions, still I hope I did not err too much in
not calculating upon the friendship or the forbearance of
the right hon. baronet. He was also fortunately kind
enough to state the whole course of proceed* with re-
gard to the motion on free trade ; and in what I am
about to state to your lordships I shall not repeat the
gossip of the clubs which I do not frequent—not the
tattle of private conversation which I should be ashamed
to repeat—but the statement made in his place in Parlia-
ment by the right hon. baronet himself; from which I
inferred then, and infer still, that there was not a con-
spiracy, but a concert among different parties for the
purpose, at the very commencement of the session, of
placing the Government in a minority. That was the
whole extent of the statement which I made on a former
occasion, that at the commencement of the session I saw
different parties, including gentlemen professing Conser-
vative opinions, acting in concert with others to put the
Government in a minority. The noble earl says that he
had no such view, and I implicitly believe him. But
what was the statement of the right hon. baronet ? He
said that he arrived in town at a late hour of the evening
preceding the delivery of the Queen's Speech—that ho
called upon the noble earl now at the head of the
Government, with whom he says he is in the habit
of unreserved and friendly communication, on political
matters. Ido not mean to identify the noble earl with
all the political views and opinions of the right hon-
ourable baronet—least of all would I identify him with
the declarations which the right honourable baronet
made at Carlisle ; and if the noble earl will refer to those
declarations, he will see how different they are from those
which he held when the noble earl last sat in the same
Cabinet with him ; but the right hon. baronet said he
in the first instance called upon the noble earl and con-
sulted him as to the course which was to be pursued
with regard to a paragraph in the Queen's Speech. The
right hon. baronet exhibited extraordinary activity and
energy on that occasion. He arrived in town at a late
hour of the night, and yet he had an opportunity before
two o'clock on the following day of communicating and
consulting with the noble earl and his friends -.-with the
noble lord the member for. the .city ef-it ohdott,Vq
friends—with the honourable member—his hon. friend
as he calls him—the member for Manchester and his
friends—(laughter, and cries of " Hear, hear.")—with
Mr. Villiers and his friends : with all those different
parties the right hon. baronet found time to concert and
consult as to the course which ought to be pursued with
regard to an amendment or no amendment on' the
Queen's Speech—with regard to the introduction or the
non-introduction of a substantive motion on the subject
of free trade. It was agreed that there should be no
amendment, and the hon. member for the West Riding,
and the hon. member for Manchester, though they
would have prepared an amendment, yet they yielded in
deference to the opinion of those with whom they were
in consultation at the time, and abstained from bringing
forward an amendment which would have thrown dis-
cord and division into the ranks of the Opposition.
In the Speech which was delivered from the Throne
there was a paragraph which was deemed, as was
stated by the noble earl, to be in itself ambiguous ;
but I think he will admit that if there was any am-
biguity in the paragraph, still the declarations which I
had the honour to make in this house, and which were
repeated by the late Chancellor of the Exchequer in the
other house, must have removed all ambiguity as to the
intentions and views of the Government. But these
explanations were not waited for in the Fouse of Com-
mons, and after the mover and seconder had made their
speeches in moving the address, immeetiately, according
to the statement of the right hon. baronet, Mr. Villiers
I may mention his name as he is not a -,,ember of this
house--stooped across to him and asked his advice and
counsel as to whether he should or should not bring for-
ward a substantive motion. The right hon. baronet ad-
vised him that he should bring forward a substantive
motion, and notice of such a motion was then given by
Mr. Villiers. That notice was first given in vague and
general terms, and it was not till the following week—
not till within three or four days of the motion being
brought forward—that its precise terms were submitted
to the house. Of course, Mr. Villiers being the person
who gave notice of the motion, if he had been acting in
no concert with other parties, Mr. Villiers was the per-
son by whom the motion ought to have been framed,
acting upon his own views, without consulting any one
—least of all, without consulting the Conservative mem-
bers of the House of Commons. But no ; the motion
was not prepared by Mr. Villiers, but by the right hon.
member for Carlisle, who tells us that he took the great-
est pains to frame the motion—that he was responsible
for it—that he took the greatest pains with the exact
langulage that was to be employed. Having framed the
motion, his next step was to consult the noble lord the
member for London, and he obtained his sanction—one
amendment only being inserted, wholly unnecessary to
its meaning. The right hen. baronet having obtained
the assent of the noble lord the member for London,
next proceeded to consult the Conservative section of his
friends in the House of Commons, and his colleagues in
the late Sir Robert Peel's Government. He comuited
them how far they would agree with the words as framed
he
bhyonh.imb.arWoniteht thsteopeopnedsulsthaotirton, oafntdhes did not tell thee parties the right
house from what cause it arose, or on what grounds it
was that, after he had taken so much pains to shape the
resolution and to obtain the concurrence of the noble
lord the member for London, and of his former col-
leagues in Sir Robert Peel's Government--he abstained
from telling us how it happened that, after all, this mo-
tion was n*t made in the House of Commons, but that an-
other motion was made and adopted by his friends. At
what time this alteration was made I know not ; but I
believe that when the right hon. gentleman laid his reso-
lution before the gentlemen in whose hands the right of
making the motion was originally placed, they insisted on,
the insertion of words which, in our judgment, rendered
it impossible for her Majesty's Government to accede to.
it. Those words, however, were inserted, and to those
words so inserted consent was given by the other par-
ties whom the right hon. baronet had consulted. My
lords, I say nothing of conspiracy—l may have used the
word " combination," but I must say I know not the
meaning of words and terms if the negotiations which I
have now mentioned on the authority of the right hon,
baronet were not a concert and a combination between
three totally distinct parties in the House of
Commons, one of which professed Conservative prin-
ciples, and one of whose distinguished members professes
in this house, that there was no difference in opinion
between him and her Majesty's Government, except upon
the question of free trade. (Hear, hear.) The noble
earl opposite says that the words of the motion were
studiously framed, not to embarrass, far from it, and
still less to eject her Majesty's late Goveinuent—but
that the words were framed o as to Rtierni e principle