The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-16 00:00:00

THE

•i truh we had it not. Lot their Lerdships consider, if
en invasion took place, and that, not owing to the want
• of British coarage or savor, bat oieing to the want of
• ' proper discipline, it should prove successful, chat would
be the of sct on the moral courage aed moral di cipline
of this country? Besides, there was -another considera-
tien—natnely, the very great uncertainty of oinaitiing
those Men tigoin when once we had parted with them.
He agreed with the Noble Earl that the ballot should
be avoided; but, et the same' time, if the Noble Earl
relied entirely on his volunteers, let him remember that-
's's relied upon men gathered from all parts of the coun-
try, and persons of the moat locomotive description:
He could understand a state of things in which the non-
commissioned officers would be fully occupied in follow-
ing those men from one part of the country to the other,.
and endesvourinu to bring them back to those colours
which they had abandoned, and which they had a mo-
tive in abandoning. He therefore could not consider
that the army raised under this Bill, if it could be
called an army at all, was, or would prove to be, one
which could be relied on. He could Lot find in history
that a reilitie bed brim found available for active service,
at all resembling that which was proposed to be raiser
by this &h. The American militia bore no resemblance
to this in eny of its qualities, in the mode in which it
was procured, or in the military habits which it ac-
tquired; and even the recently fait& armies of the
Italia:al States showed themselves anything but com-
petent for active service, as was proved during the
Mexican war. Again, there was the laudivehr of Ger-
many; but that wee an army Of re cave, composed o
old soldiers, who come jute the field clothed with all
their military attributes. It would undoubtedly place
the coerawe of Eng,iishmen in a false position if, uutler
any circumstances, they were to be subjected to the fire
ef a regular army composed of well-disciplined troops,
In the year 1831 the present King of the Belgians was
exposed, together with that kingdom itself, to a violent
attack from the Netherlands, and a conflict ensued, in
which the Belgian troops were entirely worsted
by those of flatland. The reason was, that the
Belgian army was imperfectly trained, and went
into the conflict in want of discipline and habit to meet
the troops of Holland,- who had all the advantage of
training and discipline. llis Noble Friend (Earl Grey)
had just reminded him that when, in 1848, the courage
and spirit of those troops came to be tested, they proved
that they were not wanting in either, and that they were
capable, under that Sovereign, of affording the most
effective assistance to any force. Ho did not feel diffi-
dent that this Bill would provide an army capable of
being depended on iu actual service. The Noble Earl'
had a right to ask him (the Marquis of Lansdowne)
whether he relied on the Bill of the late Govern-
ment as affording an efficient militia. He was bound
in candour to say he did not so rely. At the same
time he thought it expedient that the people of this
country should be drilled gradually to the use of
arms. He *looked to the possibility of their being
brought into a state in which they would be useful for
serving in garrisons incase of need; but he did not think
that any militie, short of an army of reserve, which was
a very dill rent thing, would supply that deficiency
which we were bound to supply with the view to an
efficacious defence. With his repugeance to a standing
army, he still thought it his duty to avow his opinion
that the best, safest, and most efficient of ell remedies
would be found in a force of that hind.—(Bear, hew.).
He thought that an army of reserve would be far prefer
aide to any force raised under the measure before the
house, and not much more expensive. He believed
the expense attending this measure would be much
greater than the Noble Lord imagined. At all events
an army of reserve would be what the force raised
under the Bill would not be—a real bond fide reliable
defence.—(Hear, hear.) ge trusted, in conclusion, that.
this imperfect measure would be the-only ono which
Parliament would have recourse to for the purpose of
placing it on that pinnacle which was essential to its
glory, its independence, and its perpetuity.—(Cteers.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON was at times very
imperfectly heard. He said—l am certainly the last
man to have any hesitation of opinilonitahs tdoistelpeiiledi o
relative
r
advantages of meeting an enemy v
with undisciplined or half-disciplined troops. The things
are not to be compared at all,—(Hear, hear.) With
disciplined troops you are acting with a certain degree
of confidence that what they are ordered to perform
they will perform.—(Hear, hear.) With undisciplined
troops you can have no such confidence; on the contrary,
the chances are that they will do the very reverse of
what they aro ordered to do.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
But we must look a little at the state in which we stand
at the present moment.—(Hear, hear.) This country is
at peace with the whole tworld, except in certain parts,
or on the frontiers of its own distant dominions, with
which operations of war are carried on by means of our
peace establishment. You are now providing for a
peace establishment; you are at peace with the whole
world; you are providing for a peace establishment.
I say that peace establishment ought to have been
effectually provided for long ago.—(Cheers.) If it
had been, we should not have needed now to be
told, as we have been by the Noble Marquis, about the
number of days and weeks it will take to train the mili-
tia recruits, or about the futility of expecting anything
to the purpose from troops with their three weeks' or
their six weeks', or what time it may be, training. We
have never, up to this moment, maintained a proper
peace establishment—that's the reel truth—(Hear, hear)
—and we are now in that position in which we fled our.
selves forced to form a peace establishment such as this
country requires.—(Bear.) I tell you that for the last
ten years you have never had in your army more men
than enough to relieve the sentries on duty of your sta-
tions in the different parts of the world—(llear, hear)—
such is the state of your peace establishment at the pre-
sent time; such has been the state of your peace csresb-
lishment for the last ten years.—(Hear, hear.) You
have been carrying on war in all parts of the globe, in
the different stations, by menus of this peace establish-
ment; you have now a war at the Cape, still continuing,
which, you carry on with your peace establishment; yet
on that peace establishment I tell you you have not more
men than are enough to relieve the sentries at the different
stations in all parts of the world, and to relieve the diffe-
rent regiments in the tropics and oltewhete,
after ser-
vices there—of how long do you suppose?—of, in some
cases, twenty-five years, in none Les than ton years—
(Hear, hear)—and, after which, you give them five
years at home, nominally—for it is only nominally in
a great many cases. There were, for instance, the last
troops who were sent out to the Cape; instead of keep-
ing them five years at home, after their long service
abroad, I was obliged to send them out after they bad
only been sixteen months at home.—(Hear, hear.) My
Lords, I tell you you've never had a proper peace estab-
lishment all this time. We are still at peace with all
the world; let us, then, have a peace establishment—
our constitutional peace establishment; and, when you
have got that, see what you will do next. The Sable
Marquis, my Noble Friend, if he will allow me so to call
him, says he thinks he should prefer an army of reserve.
An army of reserve! What is au army of reserve?—
(Hear, hear.) Is it an army to cost less than 401. each
man all round? If he thinks that possible, I tell him
that we can have no such thing.—(Hear, hear.) But
what I desire—and I believe it is a desire the most
moderate that can be formed—is, that you shall
give us, in the first instance, the old con-
stitutional peace establishment.—(Hear, hear.) When
we have got that, then you may do what you pleasr.
The Noble Marquis says, very truly, that these 50,000,
or 80,000, or 150,000 militiamen won't be fit for service
in- six months, or twelve months, or eighteen months;
but I say they'll be fit, at all events, for some service;
and certainly they'll enable us to employ in the . field
others who are -fit fur service—(Hear, hear)--and in
time they will themselves become fit for service. In the
last war we had in service several regiments of English
militia, and they were in as high a state of discipline
and as fit for service as any Men I ever saw in my
life.—(Hear.) It was quite impossible to have a body
of troops in higher order, or in higher discipline, or more
fit for discipline than these bodies of British militia were
at the commencement of tno present century up to 1810;
they were as fine corps as ever were seen—(Hear)—acal
I say, no doubt these bodies of 50,000 men or 80,000
men, whatever the number may be, will be so too, in
the course of time.—(Hear, hear.) Everything has its
beginning, and this is a commencement. You must
make a beginning hero, and see that it will, take some
months before you can form reserve regiments.-(Hear,
hear.) The armies of England,. who have served the
country so well, are your Lordships so mistaken as to
suppose that they were ever composed of more than one-
third of real British subjects—of natives of this island?
No such thing.—(Hear, hear.) Look at the Eait
Not more than one-third of the soldiers there arts such
British subjects. Look at the Peninsula; not one-third
of the men employed there were over British soldiers.
Yet I beg your Lordships to observe what services those
soldiers performed.fi—o(eHatetar, hear.) They fought groat
battles againit
isreooo troops in the world; they went
not b o
hsauvcoc
borneessful
or this prepared'to face everything—ay,
against everything,country would to
with them.—(Hear, hear. Not one-third of those
armies were British troops, but they
and not merely bravo—for believe every
wore brava troops,
—but well-organized troops. Tale the batt man
wf Wis brave
le e-
terloo—(Hear, hear)—look at the
troops at that battle. I can tell your number of British
that battle there were 16 battalionsrdshlps that in
vewian militia, just formed, under the 01 that
late Hanoverian Ambassador herneommand of
liielmansegge, who behaved most aci pewit
and there were many other foreign troops whn:trably,
llebly
aided us in that battle, avowedly the battle of
giants—
(Hear, hear)—whose operations helped to bring about
the victory which was followed by the peace of Europe,
that has now lasted for 32 or 34 years.--(Hear, hear.)
say that however much I admire highly-disciplined
troops, and most espe
citlly British disciplined troops; 1
h th
must not suppose t at o • ors cannot become
toll you you
dno d bt "f
ou , you begin with
to too—(llsar, hear)—an.,
Act of Parliament
the formation of corps under this
ms what their predecessors in the
militia
they will in tilia3-I)eu
ttna :f ever they do become what the former
wer;it they *ill perform all
militia were, you may rely on it
erfor (TI
the service.s they may be requme. to ,m,— e ear,
measure as the
hear-) I recommend you to acloi-A
commencement of a completion 0; the erace establish-
inent.—(flear, hoar.) It will give you es constitutional
force; it will not be at first, or 'for some tits.', every-
thing we could desire. but by dcarees i will litcome
.what you want—an effieitut fJrCe tto the regu-
• lar
at, hear.)
I Earl GREY teal that war the
no dotibt. anying the
militia wad valuable b • l'o•cc1
ut it shOU,d rE"
that it was then a perumeentlyenelnefed force. To all
intents Lind purposes woo abscond 1 g The
quiation, however, for them to ceusidreedul regular
a..).;• who-
Wier the proposed wss likely i• here
force
in case of any sudden emergenc est U.
he must remark that they had nog Wan this Pcdist
therm Mica, they wanted to guard Against
to tru,t
being exposed to a sudden ;Week before ag
atlgt was,
; prepared to meet it. The militia should be each to to