The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-08 00:00:00

TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE 8, 1852.

tuents. He appealed from Philip) in
But
tckhinghamshire to
sne:ero(i.Aislylauagfect the recruiting:
tasPwhkoi,ilyspvehainersretinbwaotesrtlle House.—(A
men to be found foer
It appeared to him that the demand for 80 01:t
quarteredh
public-houses.
el i
c-
h militiamen
n us es .
Would were t o
not e
e aohs etshlevot
ndos
would
ol
Ifi on
dwt
thei
inhat o
army, and greatly narrow the surface whenc
constituted our regular forces—our army, navy, and 3 marines
expenses they would necessarily incur,
than those given to a Dorsetshir
iba—nedwlapoeyvwra, eves
riutnobejbi
wages
eneci
.tdttenotwpi
rtvnahesced.,t
ii,
enTa l l y
labourer? 1
dThheey found would
scroymde i
cionce,
lt perhaps,outh th
time. And they were to, be drilled for three weeks, and
then suffered_ to roam about the country. Why, before they
could be called together again, they would have travelled
from one end of the country to the other—perhaps out of
the country. They might have got good, permanent, and
profitable employment at Liverpool or Manchester, or some-
where miles away. Would it not be cruel to drag them back
from that to their muster-roll for three weeks, so throwing
them out of work and losing them their engagements? And
what would this three weeks do for them? Would it make
them soldiers? Never; never so long , as, the Government
gave them only the discipline, and only the drill which by
their Bill they were prepared to do. The Chancellor of the
Exchequer himself, taking the common-sense view of the
question, had said on the evening of the 6th of May that it
would be madness to suppose these men capable of contend-
ing successfully with the armed legions of Algiers, of the
Caucasus. But was it not precisely against such disciplined
troops that they would have to contend ?—(Hear.) Then
what was the use of the measure? He had shown that these
troops—these,milniamen, he would not call them troops—
would be with difficulty collected, and when collected would
be fit for nothing--totally unfit, as had been confessed, to
.
resist a disciplined foreign invasion. These were the tests
to which it ought to be applied. But there was still the
argement that the militia, though not efficient for itself, was
so indirectly, 'inasmuch as it increased the efficiency of the
regular army. The whole of the regular army we could,
make available to defend our shores was 25,000, and it was
proposed to take 80,000 militiamen to make them more effi-
cient. He. sked was it not monstrous for. them to put this
country to the expense, the harassment, and the disorgani-
sation of doing thus for the army what our present policemen
and pensioners, if organised, could do quite as well ? He
asked, why should they.not rejeet the measure? The neces-
sary consequence of their doing so would be a most desirable
one—that they should have time for calmer reflection. He
trusted, therefore, that Honourable Gentlemen would con-
sider this, and would not fall into the silly delusion that it
was better to'do something, anything, no matter what, than
not to legislate nt'all and at once upon the matter. It was
against such an' error that he wished most especially t i
guard them when he said that in their haste they might do
such wrong as would prevent them from doing right
hereafter. lie asked them to take time for consideration.
Out of the mists of this discussion had already loomed the
plain fact that we possessed 65,000 regular troops within
these three kingdoms. That stood out clear from their dis-
cussion, and no man could deny it. Then they had 40,000
in dockyard and pensioner battalions ; 40,000 yeomanry and
constabulary. They had a navy which had never yet been
baffled or discomfited; they had about 1,300 steam-ships
capable of bearing guns. He asked, therefore for some pause.-
He thought the public might sleep in peace— (Hear)—and
this question be postponed for another year, and for more
ample investigation. At all events it ought not to be dis-
cussed on the eve of a dissolution, and under the auspices of
a provisional Government. The question, they must all feel,
had been sufficiently before the public to be certain to be
taken up in the next Parliament. Was it not reasonable to
suppose that it would be much better settled then than at
present? The subject of our steam navy, and the reserved
forces of our army and navy, bore most materially on this
question. On those questions a Committee was to be
moved for by his Hon. and Gallant Friend the Member for
Westminster, who *as most anxious for an inquiry into the
condition of our steam navy and marine, and to know how
far the latter were applicable, in case of need, for purposes
of war. He again asked the House to deal deliberately
and not hastily with this question ; to refer it from a pro-
visional Government to an established one, and from a dying
Parliament to a living one. He concluded by moving that
the Bill be read that day six months.
Mr. MACKINNON seconded the amendment. In the
year 1642 this very question was before the House of Com-
mons, and on that occasion the measure was strongly opposed
by Hyde, afterwards Lord Clarendon—a man of high autho-
rity upon it. With regard to the expediency of this force,
he was not aware if any benefit had arisen from calling out
the militia. Was it, therefore, wise in the Government of
this country to decide upon calling out a militia force of
eighty thousand men, the more especially as offers had been
made by men who had a stake in the country to enrol them-
selves as volunteers? If they looked back to the two last
revolutions in France, they would find that they had been
effected principally by men who had been accustomed to the
use of arms. He did not mean to say that they had any
reason to be appreheneive of such a result in this country
from the embodiment of a militia ; but the fact he had alluded
to could not escape observation: If they really apprehended
any danger, of an invasion, he would ask theme e?
they
should not, in preference, increase eir army and navy
?
Suppose a force of forty thousand invaded their coasts,
the invading force would be over h the country before a
militia could be called together. Under all the circumstances,
he saw no use in their proceeding with this hasty measure,
and he felt that it would be more in accordance with the feel-
ings of .the country, that the further consideration of this Bill
should be postponed till that day three months.
Lord H. VANE would vote for the third reading, and
eventually for the motion of the Hon. Member for Lam-
beth, to omit the compulsory clauses. He agreed with the
mover and seconder of the' amendment that this measure
had evoked a considerable spirit of hostility throughout the
country, but that was not a sufficient reason for negativing
it, if that House thought it necessary for the honour and
safety of the country. Looking at the fact that the pre-
ceding Government were pledged to some measure of the
kind, and that the present Government had introduced it
on their executive responsibility, he could not feel justified
in wholly opposing the Bill, but at the same time must ex-
press his regret that the Government insisted on the ballot-
ting clause, which it would be his duty to oppose.
Mr. MACGREGOR said that public opinion out of doors
was entirely against the Bill, and therefore he wondered at
the hardihood of the Government in going to the country on
such a measure. In London the people had no apprehen-
sion when the funds were beyond par, and when enormous
sums of money were leaving every day for investment in
the public works of France. He believed that there never
was a period in the history of the latter country when they
were so desirous of maintaining amicable relations with us,
and he knew that the President felt that nothing could be so
dangerous to the stability of his own power as any rupture
with England. As to the other three great Powers—Russia,
Austria, and Prussia—their policy, especially since the death
of Prince Schwarzenberg, was one of peace, and of com-
pact defence, not against the French President, but against
the eventualities of another revolution. In such a state of
things, he thought that a more impolitic Bill had never
been introduced into that House.—(Hear, hear.) If in-
creased
necessary, he would willingly consent
to
5,000
omen to our marine force, and that
would be a•much better defence than a body of men who
th
would' only, be bad soldiers and worse citizens. With
these views he felt bound to oppose the further progress of
the Bill.
theeadfadrieteion were
of
Mr. HEADLAM intended to vote against the third read-
ing, and hoped that the House would concur with him in
rejecting the measure. At the same time he was willing to
admit that the Governmenthad some excuse in the public
clamour, ansl,in the act of their Predecessors, and that in
their difficulty they had produced a measure as little objec-
tionable as possible, but it was only an argument against
any measure of the description, that nothing better could
be produced. His objection to the voluntary portion of
this Bill was that 'it proposed 'to raise a regular force on
the least economical principle. He was willing to admit
that there was some argument for increased defence in the
improvement of modern science and the increased facilities
of transit. He did not believe that there was any hostile
feeling towards us on the part of France; and if there were,
this Bill was so inefficient that it was a mere waste of
money. For these reasons he should give his vote against
the measure.
Mr. EWART said it was a paramount and insurmount-
able objection to a Ministerial measure that it was ineffi-
cient; and this was so. Let the necessity for additional
defence be proved, and he would consent to an increase•of
the regular army and of the artillery. He believed that,
compared with past wars, future wars—from which Heaven
defend us—would be infinitely more destructive. He con-
tended that a militia force was not suit'ed to the times we
lived in. Adam Smith described it as a most barbarous
force ; and if the force was inapplicable to this country in
his time, it was much more so now. To constitute the best
military force, the principle of division of labour must be
acted upon, which was in favour of a standing army. He
was also opposed to this Bill, because it had two other Acts
engrafted upon it, that of George 111. and theilutiny Act,
which would authorise flogging in the militia. He found
that enlightened foreigners were disapproving of a militia
force in Prussia and Austria, and they .said that it would be
found inapplicable here; but taking the opinion of military
men in our own country, they were all in favour of an aug-
mentation of the regular army. Considering that this Bill
would give neither a good nor an efficient force, he should
vote against it.
Sir IL VERNEY" said the Bill would be useful as a
means of training the population to arms, which was
one of the most satisfactory measures of national defence
that could be adopted. 'He hoped the Secretary at War
would make such regulations es would prevent the ad-
mission of persons of bad character into the force. He
trusted encouragement would be given to the rifle corps,
who would prove most valuable soldiers. It was desirable
by sonie rifle regiments.
that the army should be increased . m
II
formerly mounted in the arte o
He thought the guns
towers ought
to be replaced there, and the towers manned.
This might be done at a very trifling expense. The aug-
mentation in the French marines and
gr navy was proportion-
" t t a-
ter than in our own. as sal a
ally much
.ea
for the protection of cl
cohmmemrce,
rines were principally used
ed tha Francad ve littl
but it should be remember 1
There were meanse had
odefence avail-
e
commerce to protect.
able to this country in T
its mercantile marine force; each
vessel might be made to carry one or more swivel guns; and
this species of defence gmi ht also be applied to all the bar-
bourn on the coo.: .
+ Supposing the opponents of the Bill to
lsi dth Government
that the ast an e present overn
be mistaken, and
h enons they entertained, it could
were right in the app
thisrel conduce to theof
not be denied that able, it beam
q long as wel
werewould assa
was st
the country. -0 - Bi
ver Go nment to bring forward such
imperative duty of the
safety of the
thought necessary for the
measures as twheY
- neglect to do so would expose them to na-
tionalcountry ; and
The Hon. Member for the West Riding had
infamy. . be submitted
' n of national defences ought fo
said the question
and he hoped the Govern-
to a Committee or, Commission;
tion
went would not lose sight of that sugges •
if the Go-
vernmentm- irsTAL OSBuRNE said it appeared as
Mr. BE i Hon• Member for Bedford
had abandoned to the •• • fpassing it
his Bill, and the responsibility o
the defence of t
Aud he must add that if there
into law.—( Hear, hear.)
he measure than those that had
were no other reasonas Hon Baronet, then the dislike with
been adduced by th
ardedi the measure was not likely
which the country iatouNrve.
regHe had never heard a more war-
to be lessened in lu
d in blander terms than that which was
like speech
"Fleet) se
the Hon. Baronet. Not content with
just concluded y
third reading of this Bill, the Hon. Gentle-
voting for the t
Ministers to put the Martell° towers
man called upoa
the
swivel
guns that had been laid
to produce
in order— then they might laugh to
the last war, and
up since invasion.—(
Hear, hear,. and laughter.)
scorn a French 1 d to refer to what was said by the
He had been oblige
Bedford
for want of any other argu-
mentsber for
Hon. Member
favour of the measure; and, whatever objec-
tions in
hive to the principle of this Bill, he would
he might
t he didt found those objections on the
confess at once tha peace Society.
' principles of the eace
But, at the
views and prin ,
he would never be found
to under-
same time, he hoped
tio
ns or to impeach the motives of that truly
value the axe;
body of men. It was very easy to deride the
benevolent to laugh at the theories of those men; but he
effourldts andremind Honourable Gentlemen that they thought so
would
and enthusiastic the products of a distempered ima-
gination were promoted by some of the wisest and greatest
men of ancient times; by no less a person than Plato, and
womb
• ,-, by the divine founder of our religion and coming