The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-26 00:00:00

LONDON, WEDNESDAY

under that denomination that it had come under the
inquiry of the Commissioners in 1824; and as it
was still, he thought, an educational establish-
ment, it was still liable to an inquiry. Now
that the annual grant no longer existed that power of
inquiry could no longer be exercised, and there was
therefore nesd of a special inquiry. The power of visi-
tation was of no use to obtain the truth on the subject
of education at Maynooth, and nothing but a Committee
could satisfactorily investigate these important matters.
If the Roman Catholics of Ireland had followed
the advice of their beat friends—if the Roman
Catholic priesthood had refrained from mingling in
politics and public affairs, the cry for the inquiry would
never have been heard, and no dissatisfaction have been
raised at the nature of the doctrines taught there. It
was the sense of the want of success of the policy of 1845
that had been the cause of the feelings against
Meynooth. No man would be more rejoiced than
himself if the inquiry showed that the object of
the trusts had been carried out faithfully and sin-
cerely ; but ho contended that against the tesching
of ultramontane doctrines it behoved every man, be
his creed what it might, to lift up his voice, being, as
they were, doctrines which trampled upon the laws of
the country, and sought to dispense with the sovereignty
cf the Queen. The patrons of Maynooth College how-
ever, were the bishops of the Roman Cathode Church in
Ireland, and these bishops had openly professed their ad-
herence to ultramontane doctrines.—(Cries of" No, no.")
He repeated that the conduct of the heads of Maynooth
since 1815 demanded that this inquiry should be had.
Those heads had declared themselves in eavour of ultra-
montane principles, and in contiouheg: the grant they
were under the existing system paying money to a
foreign agent. The grant was originally conceded upon
domestic grounds, but as the matter now stood there was
no domestic clergy, because the Pope of Rome exercised
authority over the bishops, while the bishops con-
trolled the clergy. In point of fact, therefore, the
agents of the Pope enjoyed the administration of the
‘ rn
Maynooth funds, and looking at the conduct of the
heads of the college since the year 1845, he could
arrive at no other conclusion than that the time had
arrived when an inquiry ought to take place into
the
proposed
hoofwthw that inquiry to take place? Some
eas
college.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
ve l laiehs ,
Parliamentary
that it should bo by commission, and not by
Committee; but he did not agree with
them. The inquiry ought to be a dispassionate and
candid one, and he thought a Parliamentary Com-
mittee was a fit and proper tribunal to engage in the
investigation.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The posi-
tion of the State Church was a very different ques-
tion to the present. At a future day that question
might be fairly discussed, but in the meantime let them
have a Committee to examine into the operation of the
grant made to the opposite Church.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said the latter remark of the last
speaker referred to him, but he begged to state that he
had no desire to see the State Church of Ireland in any
way disturbed.
Mr. FORTESCUE said the speech of the Learned
Attorney-General was an echo of the No-Popery cry
which had been raised out of doors, and he looked upon
it as the curse of the country. There appeared
to be no end to it in Protestant England
and Protestant Scotland, and it was daily be-
coming apparent that the Catholic Emancipation Act
was not carried with the hearty concurrence of the people
of Great Britain. He for one deplored this much, because
it satisfied him that the future was still pregnant with
danger for Ireland.—(Hear, bear.) This Protestant
country could not long go on treating Roman Catholic
Ireland in this manner, or else the Roman Catholic
people of Ireland would begin to think that they would
be better off without their connexion with Eogiand.—
(Hear.) Compared with the revenues enjoyed by the
State Church, this grant was ridiculously insignificant,
and to make it a pretext for reviving the No-Popery
cry in Parliament was impolitic as well as unjust.—
(Hear, hear.) With regard to this particular motion,
he contended that there was no necessity for
any inquiry, and he should unhesitatingly give his
decided opposition as a Protestant Irishman to the
proposal of the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire.
Mr. DRUMMOND could not separate the question of
inquiry from the persons who wore to conduct it.—
(Hear, hear.) Now in deciding the two questions
it should not be forgotten that Ireland was a
Roman Catholic country, while the State Church was
originally planted by the force of the bayonet.—(Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Member for North Warwickshire
charted Maynooth with encouraging irreligion and im-
morality, but he contended that a Protestant
was totally incompetent to decide whether the
doctrines taught at Maynooth were proper or not.—
(Hear, hear.) They ought not to propose inquiries of
this nature, but to rejoice that there was such a
church amongst us like the Roman Catholic Church,
which stood up for the divine institution of hie-
rarchy, and the governmental system or principle.—
(Hear, hear.) It was not for him to decide what
wore the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church,
but the Roman Catholics would agree with him that the
order et the Jesuits had been denounced as incompatible
with the safety of society.—(Hear, hear.) The Pope
suppressed the order on that account, and yet at
this moment the order was predominant in
the Roman Catholic Chtfrch.— (Hear, hear.)
The recent aggression of Cardinal Wiseman and his
followers was dictated by the Jesuits, and it should not
be forgotten that the firm conviction of this body was
that they ought to have the government of the whole
world in their own hands.—(Hear, hear.) In
point of fact they declared themselves openly
opposed to the liberty encouraged and protected
under the name of Protcatantism, and this it was that

had irritated the people of England and Scotland against
the Roman Catholic Church.--(hear.) They were jea-
lous of their civil and religious liberties, and although
their anger might be misdirected, yet at bottom it
was sincere and just.—((lear.) The Jesuits had com-
menced a crusade against Great Britain, and the people
were to be taught that they Owed ailegiance to the
Pope before their Sovereign, but ho had too much faith
in the honesty and cotrage of the people to suppose that
this doctrine would ever mske progress within these
realms.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. FRESHFIELD then moved the adjournment of
the debate.'
Mr. ANSTEY resisted the motion, and declared that
it was another marceuvre to get rid of the debate alto-
no.) Why
gether.---(N(), it was proposed to adjourn
the debete sine die —(No, no.) Y; s, but it was.—(No.)
The SPEAKER said the }louse mast first decide that
the debate should be adjourned before they could fix
the time.—J-1"r, hear.)
Mr. SPOONER, in spite of the insinuations thrown
out by the Bon. and Learned Gentleman and his fol-
lowers, had no hesitation in saying that ho was quite
ready to
name the time if the forms of the House would
allow him to de so.'-(Hear, hear.) He would adjourn Iho
deb,.te until six o'clodt if those Hon. Gentleman who
had niotions on !he, Peeer would give way.—(Hear.)
He had been chargea with a want of honesty in making
this motion and alteririg it to accommodate the views
of the Government; but he denied this in tote —(Hear,
hear.) He had never altered his specific motion, nor had
he ever been insincere either in proposing it, or in his
desire to bring it to a division.—(Hear, hear.) He
hoped the House would now allow the debate to b
adjourned until after the other orders of the day, and he
had no objection to make
a. motion to that effect.
The SPEAKER repeated that the House must first
decide that the debate should be adjourned before it could
fix the time.—(fleet,
hear.)
Mr. D'EYNCOURT urged the House to fix the ad-
journment for a future day.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
considering the preaent state of public business, he
thought, it the discussion was to be adjourned, that it
would b© expedient to continue it to day, but on the
whole he considered it would be better to divide at
once.—(Cheers.)
Mr. REYNOLDS said he had no objection to
adjourn the debate, nor to the motion itself, but they
(the Irish Members) were
not prepared to divide, as
there were several of them who wished to address the
House on the question, He hoped, if the House ulti-
mately decided that
au inquiry should be instituted, it
would spare Roman e, atholics the infliction of having the
Hon. Member for North Warwickshire chairman of the
Committee.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said, as a preliminary
question, they ought to decide whether the House
should sit to-morrow. If it did sit he saw no objection
why the debate should
not be adjourned until to-morrow.
There was no feeling
in the country in favour of this
question being renewed in the House, and ho could not
himself see that
any good could result from these de-
bates. If an inquiry into Ma 3'•nooth were instituted it
was impossible to bring it to a conclusion during the
present session.
elition of t He had a motion on the paper for the
abolition
the
Post-horse duty, bat be had no objection
to give h
way to enable the debate to be adjourned until
this evening.
Lord Rhin,
---eeRT GROSVENOR said he was per-
fectly willing to withdraw his motion for the abolition
of the attorneys' certificate duty, provided the Govern-
ment would glee him as good a position for some other
day this week.
Tn© gallery was
then cleared, but no division took
place, it having been atereed that the debate should be
adjourned until after the'other orders of the day.
Mr. ANSTEY moved, as an amendmentethat the de-
bate be continued at six o'clock.
The SPEAKER said that motion was irregular. The
House could not entertain a motion which
was
inconsis-
tent with its own order.
Mr. ANSTEY said he would make another motion,
viz., that the debate f hould be adjourned until to-morrow.
Mr. REYNOLDS, in reply to certain observations made
by Thu O'Gorman Mahon concerning himself, said he
sepposed that Gallant Member wanted him to take a re-
turn ticket to Weybridge—(Laughter)—but ho assured
him that he was not to be bullied.—(Laughter.)
Mr. D'EYNCOURT said if it *was the general wish
of the Reese, he would withdraw his motion to enable
the debate to come on again to-night.
Mr. KEOGH thought, if the Government were sincere,
Cloy ought to fix a day for the debate, and nut call on
Members to abandon their motions.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was gnat, impossible for the Government to •fix any of
the few days left them for deeates which were not con-
nected with the immediate and pressing necessities of
public business. He had already thrown out asugges-
tion, and he must leave Hon. Members to settle the
mutter among themselves.
After a few words from Mr. e -uras and Sir A.
e
Ca men rule .
The House divided, when there appeared--
For adjourning the debate till to-morrow
Against it •••
• ••• ••••
Majority
THE DERBY DAY.
Lord PALMERSTON, in pursuance of his notice,
rose to move that the House at its rising do adjourn till
Thursday. Thera was no hope of any public business
being got tbrough tomorrow, -auleiu there way 14 call of

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