The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-26 00:00:00

a distribution as would disfranchise a very considerable
number of borofighe, and leave the counties and
large towns with representatives—that if you give
not only every householder, but every lodger who
might by fraud or collusion be placed on the rating with-
out paying rates, and made him an elector—that if to
teis plan you added the vote by ballot, and that if you had
the representatives thus elected assembled for three years—
which would, however, be in moat cases not for more than
two years—my opinion is, that you would not obtain a
House of Commons which would, either with regard to the
executive, to the other parts of the constitution, or to calm
and deliberate legislation, be as efficient a body as that
which has assembled according to the present system.—
(Cheers.) Therefore, Sir, if I were to choose between the
proposition of my Hon. Friend and the existing state of the
law, I certainly would prefer the latter.—(Hear, hear.) It
appears to me that is a sufficient reason for voting against
the proposition of my Hon. Friend. But I confess I think
there are seme parts of this proposition which contain not
only the elements of a worse House of Commons than we at
present possess, but the elements of filature danger to the
country.—(Loud cheers.) I cannot but see that if beside
householders you add. lodgers, unless the provisions
of the Bill are exceedingly stringent, and merely
provide that they shall be rated and resident for a certain
period, you would approach very nearly to that state
of the franchise which, though the Honourable Mem-
ber for Sheffield did not consider it so, was, in fact, universal
suffrage—(Cheers)—and I say, Sir, you would not have a
body of electors possessing that independence, intelligence,
and integrity, which it ought to be your aim to secure in the
electoral body.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the vote by
ballot, in reference to which my lion. Friend who has just
sat down said the people of this country have made up their
minds that they will have it, I cannot deny the present
popularity of that proposition.—(Cheers and counter.cheees.)
I repeat that I cannot deny the popularity of that measure;
but I do think that many of those who have adopted that
proposition as one which ought to be granted by Act of Par-
liament as it at present stands have not considered all the
consequences of the adoption of such a plan. My Hon.
Friend the Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) says, as I be-
lieve very truly, that intimidation is not only exercised from
above on those below, but that it is exercised from below
on those above. Many of the working classes of
this country exercise some species of intimidation
against the ten pound electors. It is very wrong
that they should exercise that intimidation; but, at the
same time, you must consider what would be the conse-
quence if the working classes found that their opinions had
no effect on the voters, and that elections took place, with
the result cf which they were totally dissatisfied, while they
were not aware who the parties were who gave the votes
on the different sides. I believe that their dissatisfac-
tion would be much greater than it now is--(flear, bear)—
and they would either ask Chit open voting should be re-
sorted to again, or, what is more probable, they would de-
mand that the suffrage should be extended to every person,
and that every person, together with the ballot, should have
the right of voting.—(Hear.) Now, I must say that if you
come to a suffrage so general as that, and with it were
joined a Parliament for three years, though I can understand
that such a Parliament so chosen might exist under another
constitution, yet I mast confess, to whatever blame such an
opinion may expose me, I do not think that a Parliament
thus elected by universal suffrage with vote by ballot and
for a short period, would long exist with other parts of our
Constitution—namely, the Monarchy and the hereditary
branch of the Legislature.—(Hear hear.) With re-
spect to the question of the limitation of Parlia-
ment to three years, the Right Hon. Gentleman says
that that used to be the favourite project of the Tory
party in former years. But the Parliament of Great
Britain solemnly repealed the Triennial Act on the ground
of the inconveniences felt to arise from it, on the ground
of the increased expense, and because greater heats And
animosities had been known in England under it than had
ever been known under any other system of law : and they
placed a record to this effect for the benefit of posterity in
the preamble of the repealing Act. I can readily believe
that if instead of going to an election at the end of every
five or six years, we were to say that every two years
we should have an election, and that every two years all
the great Interests of the country should be driven to
the hustings, that party heats and animosities wculd be
such that the people of this country would not bear a
state of things of that kind.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore
with respect to the proposition before the House, I
have no other choice but to vote, as I have on several
occaeiens already voted, against the motion now made.
But the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Ex-
q ,er:vho, I must say, has gone through these vfrbus pro-
posttiene with very great ability—(Hear)—bas !huight pro-
per to refer to a Bill which 1 introduced, b2icg then a Minister
of the Crown, and his likeovise declared the policy of the
nresent Government vial' reipeet to reform. On these sub-
j ectt I wish to say a word or two. I lid not withdraw that
Bill, because I wet convinced that it did net give satisfac-
tion; for, if I had remained a Minister I should have thought
it right to have proposed the second reading of the Bill, and
to have asked the House to go into Committee and discuss
each separate provision.—(l.lear.) I should have done so
in the conviction that there are, without touching on the
particular provisions of that Bill at the present moment, two
questions with respect to the representation of the people
requiring the consideration of the House. One is, that it
appears to me that by the right of voting fixed by the Re-
form Act—and so fixed, I think, with very great caution, in
order that in adjusting the franchise we might not at first
fix a rate lower than would be safe—the franchise, in my
opinion, is too exclusively confined to the middle classes
of this country. My own opinion agrees entirely, as a
general opinion, with the statement made by the Hon.
Member for Sheffield, that there are numerous artisans in
this country—men, earning by their labour and skill com-
petent wages, who have intelliigence and integrity fully en.
titling them to possess the elective franchise.—(Hear,
hear.) And my belief is, that if you go on for several years
more, leaving the franchise as it is at present, there cannot
fail to grow up a feeling of dissatisfaction among these work-
ing classes; whereas they would be conciliated towards the
maintenance of the Constitution, and would be made more
attached to the institutions of their country, if they were
allenitted to the enjoyment of thelranchise in a greater de-
gree than at present.- (Cheers.) I believe that they are
fully qualified to have the franchise, as at present they are
attached to the Constitution of the country. But 1 believe
that it is the business of Parliament, and the business of
statesmen pretending to rule in this country, to foresee in
some degree what may be the state of this country some
years hence in process of time, and also what may be the state
of the country in a very short time, supposing circumstances
to be adverse, and supposing distress, or any reverse in trade
should induce men to consider what is their position as re-
gards the Constitution.—(Hear.) There is another matter
in reference to the smaller boroughs to which I think the
attention of Parliament should be given. It is not the exist-
ence of those smaller boroughs to which I allude, because I
think their existence as a part of the representation can be
fully and adequately defended. I think you would not have
a sufficient representation of all the classes of the country
without having some of those boroughs with a smeller num-
ber of electors. Bat I think there are several of those bo-
roughs, which have so small a number of electors that they
cannot be permanently maintained as they are. I stated in
bringing in the Reform Bill that the object of the Govern-
ment was, that no borough should be left with less than
300 101. voters. I think that cumber a low and restricted
number; and yet I believe that no less than 14 of the pre-
sent boroughs have a smaller number of electors. That is
a circumstance which must, before long, engage the at-
tention of Government. I will not enter into the
modes by which we endeavoured to remedy the inconve-
nience; but I must say a word with respect to the
policy tei the present Government, as stated by the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I own I
cannot say that that policy is founded in wisdom, or that it is
a....policy that can be maintained.—(llear, hear.) The Right
Hop. Gentlenem say& " I will not make any change in the
Act of 1.b:12 without a clear nece•sity." New, we all know
that., a clear neceseity" is.— (Hear, hear.) We all know
of : a clear necessity" does not mean the general oelnion
natirtn and dispassionate men; it does not mean the exami-
amenel Tour existing legislation, and a determination to
fd defects; but " a clear necessity" means that degree
° scmtent and disaffection— (Cheers) -which reetild render
icthueenrref
cheering.)
we all
without making a char ee.—(Renewed
spect to the all recollect what has been the case with re-
( Clear, hear.) We
in regard to great measures.—
( know that the just requeets of the
Roman Catholics 0
neces-
sity
arose in the Ilareland were denied until "a clear
of impending civil war.—(Cheers. )
We all know that Parliamentary Reform was constantly de-
nted until the agitation the people arose to such a height
that reform could no longer _he resisted.—(Loud cheers.)
We all know with res
not
other measures of an eco-
nemicel nature, it :ar
until associations were
spread throughout
formed and
change the laws eocnountthrey thatsuect.
the_
j
Legislature agreed to
(Hear, hear.) I GWil I think that ths. House of Commons
would take a position the reverse of
declared by kit.hgnifie, and hardly
safe, if it were to be a mister of the Crown,
a majority in that iiooo,
arose-(Cries that until a
and echoed by
like to "e-(Cri f -N.
clear case .of general. discontentlames c
no," and cheers)— well, if the
I shouldd
Right Honottrable Gentleman,
-enwg Rh ,t
those words "clear necessity" mean? ( h.eees.)
can Un-
derstand that there could be a clear question of polio
tion of necessity —l3f
wisdom—of foresight ; but a Ties- e - "eels to
me a question in respect to which you have no option, and
that you must either yield to demands made,, c‘r,„no longer
cautious to govern in safety. That I understand to be
" clor necessity ;" and then, indeed, we are toh
Buret to give general and permarent satisOctio
out-ot-
dr-3)
Yes, this sort of satisfaction, which vroti!d produce
doors nothing but agitation, and which went(' require
nothing but agitation to move the house of Commere. But
is agitation alone to be the power that i,i to g:ve d n i-rpettiz
to the Howe of Commene?—(Hear, hear.) The 1'4;131
Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer
further, that altheugh the Reform Bill was passed arniest
what lie conceives to have been the best interests of the
country, yet he is ready to admit that since its enactment
the country has been well governed. It is to me a triwn-
phant satisfaction that undfr an Act which I introduced
some 20 years ago the country has been well governed ;
that it was a measure of liberal policy, and that it has had
a tendency ire the good government of England. I can un-
derstand that a measure under which the country has been
well governed is against the interests of the party who has
denstantly opposed it.—(Hear, hear.) But, deeming that
the interests of a great portion of the country and our
interests were identified with the interests of the
country at large, I never conceived that our interests were
°Ppssed to the general interests of the country. For the
reasons I have stated, I must vote against the proposition
;rained in the present motion; but Ido trust that her
eadiee`tre Government will renounce the course they Lave
eatEd to-night, and willconsider well tl s'e
take. t
. p they
hut that
triust they will not wait till a necessity aria
coutiderinr,?,ii will take an early opportunity of maturely
view to an extension present state of the repressutation with A
they
will deers of the franchise; and that, above all,
ch. se to a greeter number
on them to extend that f an-
now in the enjoh_ntnber of the working classes than are
may make ee„tla'nsttittl.iti so that by timely reforms they
which 1 believe the people nous of the ceuutry permanent to
plc a
attached.- (Cheers.) re at present steadily and firmly

----
Mr. WALPOLE said it was entirely unnece3sary for him
. to enter into the subject of the debate which the ,flor. Mem-
ber for Monti-est, had introduced; and that for two reasons
_ilrst, that everything that could be said unon the specific
Proposition of the Ilan. Member had Leen completely
an.iwo.red Ly his DO Han. Friend the Chancellor cf tie
Excl.:error, end secondly, t?: at the argument of hi-; Rig* t
Hon. Iriend had been most ably suPPoried in the first pal t
of his speech by the Nob...L.)rd. ilis only object in thing
was to correct an cxpre,sion mad 0 tizt of by the Nikle Lord,
in order the, it r _ht not go to the country that the
n
Chancellor of the :Exchequer had us,ed the expression
SEWsp.4 , "ci,ear- necessity" " discontent and
et 3 synonyrnoug With
/---------0 "Ailt, .ction." The obervatiors of the
Ilefqrn Bill and
Nob'e LorC—il'uti-
pation......,vere not very felicitous.
N:
~:- - 1 ri, --, r. al they had becn by thus:ens to the
.., . . -...... I' ~ :,-.-zO, lan Catholic Emsnci
:2- ..:.,., :...:.,:_ ,:.:,.‘Y-..hon .IS Right Hon. Friend made uso. of
,the worda "clear
' -.;•12:::(, ;,:•/-.-..12,a yof further improvement in the Constitution of this
L.--,.;•,,.,.::47..,...:drael he coupled with that observation the idea that any
\,,,,--:_z____•' 1-4-. allter Ai which should be mace shoul.l give permanent and
What he (Mr. We.-
,_.
~-,:...f.r.,4"--,.-_-' .. - r--C4t satisfaction VI the cfman try.
: -.-:_ ptqa undsistocd his Right Hon. Friend to mean wa) this
Iti. i--- ' .-r. giggly, that having, passed the Reform Bid is
)
«It;