The Sun.
London, England, 1852-11-16 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, NOVEMBER 16, 1852.

with him, and some there are who have touched his
hand. His image, his countenance, his manner, his
voice, are impressed upon every memory, and live in
every ear. In the golden saloon and in the busy market-
place to the last he might be found. The rising genera-
tion among whom he lived will recollect his words of
kindness, and the people followed him in the street with
that lingering glance of reverent admiration which seemed
never to tire. (Much cheering.) Who, indeed, will ever
forget that venerable and classic head—ripe with time,
and radiant, as it were, with glory !
Stiliehonis apex et cognita fulsit
Canities.

That we might not be unacquainted with his inward and
spiritual nature, that we might understand how th's
sovereign master of duty fulfilled the manifold offices of
his life with unrivalled activity, he favoured us with a
collection of military and administrative literature which
no age and no country can ever equal. (Cheers.) And,
fortunate in all things, Wellington found in his life-time
an historian whose immortal page now ranks with the
classics of that land which Wellesley saved. (Loud
cheers.) Sir, the Duke of Wellington has left to his
country a great legacy, greater even than his fame. He
has left it the contemplation of his character. (Her r,
hear.) I will not say in England that he revived the
sense of duty, for that, I trust, was never lost ; but that
he has made the sense of public life more masculine,
that he has rebuked by his career restless vanity, and
reprimanded the morbid susceptibility of irregular
egotism, I think it is not an exaggerated praise.
(Much cheering.) Ido believe that from the highest
to the lowest, from those who are called upon to
incur the most serious responsibility of the State to
those who exercise the humblest duties of our society,
there are moments of difficulty and depression, when
the image of Wellington may occur to the memory,-and
the sense of duty sustain and support the mind. (Hear.)
Although the Duke of Wellington lived so much in the
hearts and minds of his countrymen, although until the
end of his long career, he occupied the most prominent
position, and fulfilled the most august offices, no one
seemed to be conscious of what a space he occupied in
the thoughts and feelings of his countrymen until he
died. Perhaps the influence of true greatness was now
more completely asserted. In an age when a belief
in intellectual equality flatters the self-complacency of all,
every one acknowledged that the world had lost the
greatest of men. In an age of utility, the most busy
, sense people in the land can find
no vent for their Woe
and the most common
and no representative for their
grief, but in, the solemnity of a pageant. And we, who
are assembled here for purposes so different—to investi-
the sources of the wealth of nations, to busy ourselves
in statistical research, to encounter each other in fiscal
controversy _We offer to the world the most sublime and
touching spectacle that human circumstances can well
produce—the spectacle of a senate mourning a hero.
The Right Hon. Gentleman then moved that an humble
address should be presented to her Majasty, thanking
her Majesty for having given directions for the public in-
terment of the mortal remains of his Grace the late
Duke of Wellington, and assuring her Majesty of the
cordial aid of the House in endeavouring to give to the
solemnity fitting importance.
LORD J. RUSSELL said he merely rose to second
the motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman. He did not
wish to • add a single word to the eloquent terms in
which it had been introduced, and he thought the whole
House would concur in an appropriate testimony.
The motion was then agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
moved that Mr. Speaker and the House should attend .
the funeral of the Duke of Wellington at St. Paul's Ca-
thedral on Thursday next ; and that a Select Committee
should be appointed to consider the attendance of the
House and their place in the solemnity.
The standing order requiring notice of the intention
to move for a Select Committee was, on the motion of the
Right Hon. Gentleman, suspended ; and, the preceding
motion having been agreed to, the following Members
were nominated as the Select Committee :—Lord John
Russell, Mr. Walpole, Mr. Gladstone, Sir J. Pakington,
Sir C. Wood, Lord J. Manners, Sir F. Baring, Mr.
Hume, Mr. Christopher, Sir Robert Inglis, Mr. Cayley,
Mr. G. A. Hamilton, and Lord Palmerston.
Mr. HUME wished to know what would be the du-
ties of the Select Committee !
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that the Committee would have to consult the journals,
in order to see what was the best manner in which the
House could attend the funeral.
The names were then agreed to.
RISING OF THE HOUSE BEFORE MIDNIGHT.
Mr. BROTHERTON moved that, in the present Ses-
sion of Parliament, no business shall be proceeded with
in the House after midnight, and that at twelve o'clock
precisely, notwithstanding there may be business under
discussion, Mr. Speaker to adjourn the House without
putting any question. He considered that it was un-
reasonable that the British legislature should not be
content to close its sittings at twelve o'clock, and he
felt that by an adherence to the old system it must be
disparaged in the opinion of the country. He hoped
her Majesty's Ministers would give him their support on
the present occasion, and he could assure them that
they could not bring forward a more useful or satisfac-
tory reform. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. EWART seconded the motion, and referred in
support of it to the character of the debates which
took place at their sittings on Wednesdays, when the
discussions were carried on with less excitement and
more deliberation than on ordinary occasions. He sug-
gested that, at all events, on Tuesdays and Thursdays,
when the Government business did not interpose, they
should meet at twelve o'clock, and rise invariably at six
o'clock. He considered that the present system was
most injurious to the health of public men ; he had seen
Member after Member of Administrations worn out by
the toil to which they were exposed, and no Member
who desired to do his duty should wish to prolong the
sittings of the House atter twelve o'clock. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. W. WILLIAMS supported the motion. The
present system was most discreditable to the House, be-
cause the most important business was brought on at
one and two o'clock in the morning. The consequence
was that measures were passed in an imperfect state, and
it was necessary to have them amended by subsequen,
Acts.

Sir W. CLAY thought it would be better to leave
he matter to be arranged by the good feelings and good
sense of the House, than to bind themselves down by
any rule.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER really
thought the gist of this motion was to reduce the time
they could dedicate to the discharge of public business.
It was a motion to establish restrictions upon debate,
which was an extraordinary proposition in a free-trade
age and in a free-trade House of Commons. The Hon.
Member for Salford had frequently exercised the very
salutary privilege of moving the adjournment of the
House. The House had always received the proposition
with deference, and there was no doubt that on many
occasions it had very much contributed to their conve-
nience ' . but there had been occasions on which the
H
should terminate, when there was such an irresis-
tiboln,
e feeling Member on
n made the motion that the debate
both sides of the House that the ter-
mination of the debate under such circumstances would
be extremely inexpedient and injurious to the public
tao 1: e
wasßusiness. highly
very
The
limitation
that the Honourable Gentleman himself did not
press his motion. The adoption of an iron and inflexible
ruleir wouldsn
iirconvenient, and he thought that
m
much considered in the Committee
on
Publicu
ilitamtiitng
oinof
the
obadtneras wtioonuldofbne
veryspeech, which it was considered, on due reflection and
investigation, would produce this result, that every
Member would certainly speak an hour, while many
Gentlemen whom the Rouse would wish to speak more
than an hour would be prevented from expressing their
eemuch like the plan of
opinions at all. (gear, hear.) Whoever were the
Ministers of the country, it was impossible that the pro-
posal could be carried on for any length of time. In the
last Session,ssb
very much hurried before the dissolu-
tion, business to discharge, they
sat something like iourteen hours a day, but it would be
i
continue that practice, and he doubted
whether any one would be able to undertake such an
office. (Hear.) He really thought this was a question
which might safely be left to the good taste and good
feeling of Honourable
iimpossible
p 0 andi
l e having t
0 being i
Members. He was quite con-
vinced,ilelidadinsneeennovi,
.ng
many instances of it, that rigid ,
that which, left to the
taste of Honourable Members,
had been successfully acilieled. He should feel it his
good
ds
fheadelainnfagd
and good
duty, though with great retret, to oppose the motion,
brought forward he had no
doubt with a very excellent
intention.
Mr. tight Hon. Gentleman the
Chancellora nlimits cruet- had questioned the desira-
bility of confining the speeches of Hon. Members within
rt xohthee
; bit he (Mr. Hume) thought
certain
IHUME of
s as th
t eo saidE
time
such a regulation would hadhad heard that such alimitation had been attended with
the best possible results in a most salutary effect. He
t
assembly in another coun-
try. He did think his 11)n. Friend (Mr. Brotherton)
was perfectly right in putting u.._
it to the good sense of
Hon. Members whether thy could adopt any mode by
which the sittings of the }Nee might
be shortened. The
matter was growing wove and worse every session.
paper, and very frequently Forty or fifty orders of tlb day often appeared
a single
appeared on the
question occupied the whol night. He thought the rule
laid down by his Hon. Friend should be adopted by the
House. The business of Paltiament ought to be performed
before a time of the night whin the health of Hon. Members
was likely to suffer. To attend business in an office,
during the greater part ofthe day, as many Honourable
Members had to do, and then to have to attend in that
House until two or three o'clock in the morning, was
beyond human effort. (lear, hear.) He himself was
the innovator in the case if the Wednesday sittings. At
first that was supposed to be an arrangement which was
not likely to succeed ; but he thought there was now no
Honurable Member who would not admit, that that was
a beneficial change. • He was of opinion that the motion
of his Hon. Friend, if carried into effect, would be at-
tended with results equally beneficial. The next object
would be to adopt some means of removing from the con-
sideration of the House of Commons, many matters
which ought never to come before it, and which occasion
great loss of time. There ought to be a committee to
consider whether a class of useless bills which now occu-
pied the time of the House
with might not fairly be dispensed

Lord J. RUSSELL could not but believe there was
some public dissatisfaction as to the mode in which the
business of the House was conducted, but he thought
the manner of carrying on that business would not be
improved merely by adopting the present resolution.
The House must be aware, and the Hon. Member (Mr.
Brotherton must be aware, that there never was a legis-
lative assembly in which was transacted a tithe of the
business that was now carried through the House of
Commons. Speaking of the Congress of the United
States of America, there the legislative business was
divided. A great parof it was transacted in the
assemblies of thO seyeral States. In the next pLue, the

whole administration did not form part of the Congress,
therefore they had not in the Congress those con-
tinual debates with respect to matters of sdniinis-
tration which formed a great part of the ituSiness
of the British House of Commons. But consider-
ing they had that business to do, Honotirable Members
might have to consider whether it would not be tiee,es.-
sary to change many, if not all, of the remaining rules
and regulations of that House, if they adopted the
present proposition. His Honourable Friend (Mr.
Hume) seemed to admit that, for he said the next step,
after agreeing to that proposition, would be to appoint
a committee to consider how the business might be
diminished. If that was to be the case, let them have
the whole scheme of carrying on the business of the
House before they adopted the present resolution.
Another change would be, that they could not have that
number of stages through which from time immemorial
it had been deemed necessary a bill in that House should
pass. Not many years ago, according to the ancient
rules of that House, there were no less than thirty-two
questions put upon each Bill, from the time of its intro-
duction to its passing ; but if they agreed to the present
motion it would probably be necessary to limit tht
number of those questions, and to make other changes
of that kind. It appeared to him, also, if the motion
was adopted, that there would be an accumulation of
business untransacted at the end of each Session. He
did not say it would not be possible to frame sonic
scheme by which the whole business of the House would
be better transacted, but to assent to the motion before
the House would be to throw a difficulty in the way of
attaining such an end.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY thought if his Honourable
Friend (Mr. Brotherton) would bring forward some
measure to prevent Honourable Members entering on
any new business after midnight, without the consent of
the House, it would be attended with some good effect.
Mr. BROTHERTON, in a brief reply, said he was
sorry he could not have the support of the leading
Members of the House upon that occasion. It only
convinced him the more how difficult it was to unlearn
bad habits, and to learn good ones. (A laugh.) He
disclaimed the wish to exercise anything like a despotic
sway over the proceedings of that House. He had
been brought up in the love of constitutional govern-
ment ; he still cheriShed that love ; he disliked des-
potism : he did not wish to trust himself with any des-
potic power ; and therefore he wished that his motion
should be adopted. Although there might be some
inconveniences attending the carrying it out, he believed
they would be less than wasting every now and then
two or three hours in discussing a question of adjourn-
ment, and then adjourning at last without doing any
business. (Hear, hear.)
The gallery was then cleared for a division. The
result was—

For the motion
Against it

64
260

Majority against the motion
INDIA.
On our return to the gallery we found
Mr. HERRIES moving the re-appointment of the
Committee on Indian Affairs. He said, Honourable
Members would recollect that her Majesty's Govern-
ment appointed that Committee in the last Session,
before the time when it was indispensably necessary
that some legislation should take place on the sub-
ject of the Government of India. He did not, there-
fore, anticipate that any objection would be made by
the Nouse to the appointment of the Committee on the
present occasion. Down to the dissolution of
Parliament the Committee had prosecuted the in-
vestigation which had been referred to them with very
great attention and application, and with very consider-
able success as was shown in their very luminous report,
which contained a mass of- useful information relative to
our empire in the East. The first and principal topic of
inquiry, namely, the agency by which the Government
of India was now conducted under the Act now in force,
was completely exhausted by the labours of the Com-
mittee which sat in the last Session, and they had re-
ported the whole result of their inquiries in that
voluminous blue book to which he had referred. The
remaining topics of inquiry were the military establish-
ments of India, the management of the financial affairs
of that great empire, its education system, and the pro-
gress of works of improvement. All these were subjects
which ought to engage the very close and serious atten-
tion of the Committee on its appointment, and when
they had reported upon them the House would be in a
position to legislate on the great subject of whether the
Government.of the vast empire was to be conducted
upon the principles of the act of 1833. He must remind
the House that the period within which legislation
must take place on the subject of India was comparatively
narrowed. In 1854 the Act for the better Government of
her Majesty's Indian territories would cease, and it would
be indispensably necessary that some act on'the subject
should pass in the course of the present session. It was for
that reason that he took that early opportunity after the
meeting of Parliament to move for the re-appointment
of the Committee. The late general election had resulted
in the loss to the House of several of the important
Members who sat on the Committee during the last
Session of Parliament ; and it would therefore be necessary
that he should propose some new names to supply the
vacancies so occasioned. The total number of the mem-
bers of the Committee would be, as in the former case,
thirty-one—a number which the House would no doubt
agree with him in opinion as to its being sufficiently
large. Of the members who composed the Committee in
the last Parliament, the House was now deprived of the
services of five, whose places he proposed to supply by
Mr. Macaulay, Sir Edward Ellice, Lord Stanley, Mr.
Robert Clive, and, he was happy to be able to add, Lord
Palmerston. He concluded by moving the re-appoint-
ment of the Committee.
Mr. HUME suggested that in the further proceedings
of the Committee the Members should avail themselves
of the advantage of examining some of the more intelli-
gent of the natives of India, who would be capable of
affording correct information as to the sympathy of the
native population with the Government of that country.
With respect to the general conduct of affairs by the
East India Company, he had no hesitation in saying
that India had been much better governed under the
Company than our own colonies had been under the
Colonial Government.
Mr. IVIA.CGREGOR thought that, as the re-appointment
of the'Committee was a matter of such great importance,
some further time ought to have been afforded the
House for consideration on the, subject.
The motion was then agreed to.
ALLEGED BRIBERY AT THE DERBY
ELECTION.

Sir B. HALL, in the absence of Sir A. Cockburn,
moved that the petition of certain of the electors of the
borough of Derby should be printed with the votes, and
gave notice that on Friday next Sir A. Cockburn would
found a motion upon the petition.
The motion was agreed to. •
SALE OF CHICORY.
On the motion of Mr. HUME, the following returns
were ordered :—Copies of all the minutes of the Treasury
respecting chicory since 1840 ; and of the new Treasury
minute relating to the sale of chicory with coffee. Also,
return of the number of memorials presented to the
House of Commons for and against the rescinding of the
aforesaid Treasury minute, stating from whom, and the
number of signatures to each memorial ; and copies of
instructions, if any, issued to the Commissioners of In-
land Revenue respecting that Treasury order ; and of
the orders given by the Commissioners of Inland Revenue
for the prevention of the admixture of chicory with
coffee ; also an estimate of the additional expense to be
incurred in carrying out those measures.

TREATMENT OF CRIMINALS AND DESTI•
TUTE JUVENILES.

On the motion of Mr. BAINES, the re-appointment of
the Select Committee appointed in the last Session to
inquire into the present treatment of criminal and des-
titute juveniles, and what changes are desirable in their
treatment, in order to supply industrial training, and to
combine reformation with due correction of juvenile
c ime, was agreed to.
THE SLAVE TRADE IN THE BRAZILS.

Lord PALMERSTON moved for returns of the total
number of slaves imported into Cuba and the Brazils,
respectively, since the date of the last return down to
the present time.
Mr. HUME thought that the House would be merely
trifling with the subject by agreeing to the motion of the
Noble Lord. This country had treaties existing with
Spain and Portugal, by virtue of which the former
country had received not less than 900,0001., on condi-
tion that the Government of that country would use all
its exertions to put down the slave-trade. Large sums
had also been paid to Portugal under similar treaties.
The Government of this country ought either to call
upon those countries to fulfil their treaties, or to refund
the money they had received. The fulfilment of treaties
was enforced upon weaker countries, and he saw no
reason why Spain and Portugal should not be compelled
to fulfil the terms of their treaties.

Lord PALMERSTON suggested that the better
course to adopt would be, first to ascertain the facts, and
then to deal with them. (A laugh.)
The motion was then agreed to.
The House then adjourned.

CASTLE AVON, BY THE AUTHOR OF " EMILIA WYND-
HABL"—One of the most deservedly popular, as she is
one of the most instructive, of our modern novelists, the
author of " Emilia Wyndham," is on the point of pub-
lishing a new work entitled " Castle Avon," which, ac-
cording to the rumours in literary circles, is likely to
prove one of the most original and valuable tales she has
produced. It is not only the mere novel reader who
will be interested in the announcement of " Castle
Avon," for the works of this distinguished writer address
a far wider and higher class. They appeal (as a contem-
porary has justly observed) to the intellectual, the re-
flecting, the pious. They are not to be read and for-
gotten in the novels of the season, but to be treasured in
the library, and perused again and again with delight, as
lessons of virtue taught by example, and as affording
profitable recreation for all.
SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE IRON TRADE.--The iron trade
of South Staffordshire continues extremely brisk. One
of the largest firms in the district has issued a circular,
in which they state they will not take any more orders
this year, and it is confidently expected, although the
price of some descriptions of iron has risen 50 per cent..'
within the last three months, that another advance will
be declared at the next quarterly day ; some go so far
as to state that an advance of 20s. per ton is inevitable
before Christmas. The orders received by the last
packet from the United States are unprecalentedly
large. Rails, rods, and plates, are in great request.
The demand is greatly in excess of the supply ; in one
instance alone a contract has been teen for 20,000 tons
of rails at 55 dollars cash on delivery. In addition to
this glut of for.eign orders, there is a large demand for
plates for Phip-building,