The Sun.
London, England, 1852-04-21 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 21, 1862.

investigation of the subject by a Committee. The ob-
ject of the endowment was to ensure a loyal-
Roman Catholic priesthood for Ireland. The
question in the first place was, had Maynooth pro-
ciuced a loyal priesthood for Ireland, or was it breeding
up a priesthood, not only for Ireland, but for the colo-
nies and England also?—(Hear.) If that was so the
question would be materially altered. The withdrawal
of the grant would be a grave step, and he did not say
that it would not be better still to continue it, but he
required investigation. He believed that several wisre-
prerentations had been made at the time when the Bill
of 1845 was proposed. He did not believe that the po-
verty of the college was such as it had been represented.
He did not believe that the students were suffering from
the privations stated by Sir Robert Peel, and he had con-
siderable doubts whether the funds for the education of
Roman Catholic priests for Ireland were appropriated
solely for that purpose.—(Hear.)
Earl GREY thought the Noble Lord bad taken a
somewhat unusual course.—(A. laugh) He was not
aware that he had ever expressed an opinion as to the
results of the Act of 1815. At, that period be was a
Member of the other House, and be had no recollection
of ever having made any speech on the subject. He had
supported the measure certainly not so much from any
expectation of immediate results, but from its being
held out as a conciliatory measure to the 11-,man Ca-
tholics of Ireland, and which he believed would be
accepted by them in that spirit. He had always thought,
and still thought, that the state of things with
reference to the endowments of the Church of Ireland,
was one which could not, and ought not permanently, to
remain. The great body of the people were Roman
Catholics, and the Church established was one of ex-
treme wealth—(oll)—he would not say extreme, but of
great wealth, derived in a great measure from the en-
dowments possessed by the Roman Catholic Church
300, or 400 years ago, and which the Raman Catholics
thought they ought still to possess. That wealth had,
however, been transferred to the Church of the minority,
and formed the means for providing religious instruction
fot that minority, composed of the more wealthy classes
There were at the same time Parliamentary endow-
ments for various classes of Protestant dissenters in Ire-
land, but except the annual grant to Maynooth no pro-
vision was made for the spiritual instruction of the great
mass of the people. It appeared to him then, and it
still appeared to him, that this anomalous state of things
ought not to continue. If the situation of matters were
reversed, and Ireland had not a majority of Roman Ca-
tholics, he, as an English Protestant, would not rest con-
tent until he procured the establishment of a different
state of things. It was with such views that he had sup-
ported the measure; but to say he had any confident
opinion that any good • system of education would be se-
cured by the establishment of Maynooth, or that he
had any confident opinion the measure would work any
marvellous good, was quite contrary to fact. It was
tendered in that form and he accepted it.—(dear, hear.)
Now, he hoped his Noble Friend would admit he bad
pretty clearly explained his opinions. Those opinions
might be right or wrong; but if wrong he had not
shrunk from fairly and honestly explaining them. If
wrong he had held them in the other Howie of Parlia-
ment, and the same opinions had uniformly guided him
, since he had a seat in their Lordship's House.—(llear.)

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was, like his Noblit
Friend (Earl Grey), about taking an unusual course—
he was about to answer a queivion which bad not been
put to him. His Noble Friend opposite had said his
question was put to those who supported Sir R. Peel in
his Maynooth policy as to their motives and expecta-
tions iu giving that statesman their support. Having
been one of those who had strenuously supported the
measure he felt bound to state, though he did not ex
elude from his consideration the hope the Noble Lord
adverted to, that it would produce a favourable effect on
the conduct of the Roman Catholic clergy, it was not
in the hope of producing that eff,ot that he gave his
support to the measure. He looked to no such bargain
as the Noble Lord seemed to think was the case. He
did not adopt from the Noble Lord that ground
assigned for the measure, but he adopted the
ground assigned by Sir R. Peel, that it was important
to the Protestant people of England that the Roman Ca-
tholic clergy should have a good education. Tnis was
an object not dear to Roman Catholics only, but dear to
every member of the community composing the country
at large, who, not being able to ignore or to prevent the
existence of the Catholic religion in Ireland, had a deep,
common, and lasting interest in educstton being con-
ducted according to the approved forms of the Catholic
Church, and subject to the inspection and observation of
the Government authorities. That was the ground on
which he supported the measure—that was the ground
of that statesman—and he should be glad to know if his
Noble Friend (Lord Harrowby) saw any reason for
changing his opinion in that respect. He also supported
the measure on a ground not adverted to by the Noble
Lord, but which he thought important at the time—
namely, that it had been found necessary for a period of
30 years, by every Minister, and by every Government,
to come down to Parliament, and year after year to raise
the question, and to place themselves under the neces-
sity of calling upon Parliament to do that which
Parliament had always been reluctant to do, and
which had always created strife and opts )sition; that
he saw in the measure a provision for a standing
grievance and inconvenience which excited strife,
political disputes, and irritation, and that therefore he
for one felt obliged to the Government of the day,
headed by Sir R. Peel, and supported by the Noble Lord
opposite, for the means they took, as far as lay in their
power, to put an end for ever to these circumstances,
calculated as they were perpetually to renew and keep
open the sense of grievance, which it was the object of
all wise Governments to cover over, to palliate, and, if
possible, to obliterate. Ho supported the measure on
those grounds, and seeing as he did the immense import-
ance of avoiding the constant recurrence of mischievous
discussions on the subject in or out of Parliament, he ad-
jured the Noble Lord and Government not to ha.tily
adopt a course calculated to lay the foundation once more
for a perpetual renewal of those annual votes and discus-
sions, as must be the case if the old policy was resumed.
If this vote was annually proposed, it would renew and
perpetuate all the evils to which he had alluded. Ile had
thought it right to state these Matters to the House.' He
had supported the measure on the grounds he had stated,
and he was prepared to support it again, not because be
thought it would have the effect of augmenting the
'loyalty of the Roman Catholic priesthood, but because
it was best for the public at large. f this ho was sure,
The Bishop of CASEIEL protested against the itnhcartetalredlobyyalatywoitfhtdhreaCwaalthooflitel'ieprvioestetO this
hold not be
state-
ment made by the Noble Earl (Earl Grey), that the
Church property was
iehsfithve ooidt
obtained at the Reformation, and
handed over to the Protestant hierarchy. No such
thing happened. Of the Roman Catholic Bishops at the
Reformation the greater number embraced the Reformed
taith, and continued in their sees. It was no more the
fact that the Roman Catholic priesthood in Ireland were
robbed of their property to be handed over to the Pro.
d,rtohbabnedtheorßothmeairn
proprCatholicety priesthood
handed over to Protestants. The property in both cases
itnes Etanagtlpanrides were thoo
passed the same way. The Church property in both
countries was not given to the Roman Catholic clergy
because they were R Allan Catholics, but given for the
maintenance of religious truth. The Church of England
and the Church of Ireland stood on the same ground,
and any Noble Lord who stood up and accused the
Protestants of Ireland of robbing the R man Catholics
of Ireland. made the same accusation against the
sPro-
testants of England. No doubt, as !he Noble Lord had
said, there was a larger number of Roman Catholics in
Ireland than there were Protestants; but the Protestant
Church of Ireland had been endeavouring, not without
suecees, to brieg the light of a purer religion to the
Irish
of liberty—Amertua—to be freed from the persecutions
of priests and neighbours, conformed to the Protestant
Church. From the Quarterly Review ha collected these
facts:—The population of America was 23.000,000;
ltom
o afathCeat people of Ireland who went to the land
Catholics.
. It was a singular fact that the
majority
3,000.000 of that number were Irishmen born in Ireland;
4,500,000 were of Irish descent; and of the whole
number of 7,500,000 Irish in America, the annals of the
Propaganda only claimed 1,663,000; thus showing how
many Irishmen received the truth through the instruc-
tion given by Protestant ministers.
Earl GREY asserted his statement was correct respect-
ing the Roman Catholic Church property in Ireland. The
case of England and Ireland was certainly alike, but with
this difference, that in England the flocks and prelates
went over to the Reformed religion ; but in Ireland it
was only the prelates who went over. He was one who
conceived that Church property was held, not for the
benefit of the priesthood, but for the benefit of their
flocks; and he could not therefore conceive that the pre-
sent arrangement of matters was beneficial to the mass
Protestant
in
e. AHmeeribc
believed who
ed of the people of Ireland. It "was a strange statement,
that which had been made by the Right Rev. Prelate
large
numberrotes tan otf Irish
religion. con-
formedabou h t t
teo
thestatement was correct, and the only reason why the same
lithe
effect did not occur in Ireland was in consequence of the
injustice of the arrangement which had prevailed for
three or four centuries, and which had proved the ob-
stacle to the spread of the iaherent truths of Protes-
tantism among the people of Ireland.
The subject then dropped, and their Lordships ad-
journed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 20.
THE CHURCH AND MR. BENNETT.
Mr. HORSMAN then rose to move, that whereas by
the constitu ions and canons ecclesiastical of the Church
amnedestneaesl,shoafthge
of England it is decreed \and ordained, that "no bishop
shall institute any to a benefice who bath been ordained
by any other bishop, except be first show unto him his
letters of orders, and bring him a sufficient testimony of
his former good life and behaviour, if the bishop shall
his
care h hand
dd
require it; and lastly, shall app:ar, ou due examination,
to be worthy of his ministry' (Owlet:132); also, that
"no curate or minister shall be permitted to serve in any
place without examination and admission of the bishop
of the diocese, or ordinary of the place, having episcopal
eingrweraittninegssuonfdethre
party. And the said curates and ministers, ifthey
move from one diocese to another, shall not' be by rev.
means admitted to serve without testimony
iruerspitte'tirth
of the diocese, or ordinary of the place of the bishop
whence they came, in writing, of their as aforesaid,
and conformity to the ecclesiastical honesty. ability,
England'? (Canon 48)—an hlaws of the Church of
vented to her Majesty, r humble address be pre -
graciously pleased to directp. praying
that
she
will
be
due respect was paid t) the inquiry to be made, whether
and canons decrees of the constitutions
,ecclesiastical of
the recent institution of the Church of England in
Frome. This case, the
Mr. Bennett to the vicarage of
brought so Touch '
not despair of hid scandal upon the Church that he did
He had, acing the House to adopt this motion.
however, no charge to make against Mr.
Bennett
, upon hid reli - • ens because as
long as be re iious convict'
the Reverend
Vain _ violated no law --2--•
VU/194"4 lig 11 Att w 000 Wall -Kw,'"