The Sun.
London, England, 1852-02-10 00:00:00

and, anthorify—the mere! power—which it bad for- f situated the power to exercise, a :nest coercive Matte
merle excicised thrr ealtoth i-he esepire. &heti e :melt ' and lied lest him and them in a nositien in whit:el t
iris unfortunate ie its bearites upon the interests of was a temptation so sarong to exelcise an kfiae._
the . peeele
e The principle of finality once abandoned j grading to the nature 01 the elector arid to hie social eon-
was given up for ever. No one could new ror the future dition, and which would he liustful se the eonstitulien of
take his stand upon our ihetiftr:lons as in eey respect ' the HOUSO and of the ceuntry.—(Hear, hear.) The rinil
fixed and field in their eherecier. The Noble Lord con- who was forced to yore was ebeut as mach degreded as
sidercel that their institutions shonld he censtenily in a the man who was bribed to vote: he 10,3". his self-respect,
state of transition—constatitly expanding. There wee and by being tempted to d'i'e-rod the vete which he had
therefore, no principle of stability left in their constitution. been compelled to give there was a growing depravity
The details dila° present measure effectually destroyed I brought about of his moral feelings. He (The Bright)
the character of stability, and next year they might said that the Noble Lord was bound to give the ballot—e
all be changed, or, at all events. but a few years might (Meer)—if there was any considerable extension of
elapse without an entire modification of them. What the franchise. He would not go into the question of the
Would be the natural effect of all this change and un- ballot in any long argument. fits mind was so entirely
certainty? Either they would soon render the state a made up on it, both as regarded moral and political
complete democratic republic, or, what was more pro- grounds, that he hoped when Vte mceion for the adop-
bole, they would render that ouse what it showed lion of the ballot was brought forward by the Hon.
every indication of becoming—an assembly utterly un- Member (Mr. Berkeley), and when it was discussed wiih
able to carry out those purposes for which it was insti- more attention than it had hitherto received, they would
tuted. At the close of every session the constant corn- he able to show that it was due to the employer of
Plaint was that nothing had been done. That was in labour as well as to the employed that a clause enacting
consequence of the great infusion of the popular element. the ballot should be added to the Bill.—(Bear, hear.)
That evil would be aggravated by the change now pro- The next point on which he wished to observe was
Posed. To our old Constitution he bad a strong attach- lowering the county franchise from 501. to 201. He
tnent—for the able and successful administration of thought the Noble Lord would admit there was no argu-
the affairs of the country which had been effected under meat in favour of a 201 franchise which did not apply
it, and for the practical liberty enjoyed under it—and he with equal force to a franchise of 101—(Hear, hear.)
now rendered the Noble Lord responsible for what was The 10/. franchise had been carried in that House no
likely before long to befal that ancient Constitution, less than twice by the Hon. Member (Mr. L. King), and
shaken as it already was. It was possible that, in the that alone was a reason why they should look very
course of years, the people of England might be at last closely into the present proposal. He asked Hon. Gen-
tired out—that liberty might exist no longer—that some tlemen opposite, was there any reason why they should
other form of government might be substituted, and give a vote to a man occupying a 5/. house in a street in
such a consummation be attained in England as had Manchester or Birmingham and refuse it to a man living
been already attained in a neighbouring country, and by in the country in a house of 18/. or 191 a yeari—(Hear
a somewhat similar process. He would not offer any hear.) A man, perhaps retired from business, might
opposition to bringing in the Bill. have a most comfortable house in the country with a
Mr. H. BERKELEY thought the measure of the rent under 201. a year, and yet he was to be debarred
Noble Lord ought to be affirmed. He considered it a from the franchise. Now, be presumed there would
great improvement, and that there was something more be a proposition made to substitute a lower franchise,
in it than that infinitesimal dose of reform which had and he hoped the House would adopt it for consistency
been promised in a well-known political organ. John and justice sake, if no argument could be shown
Bull would find there something more than that; but against it. How the Noble Lord could excuse himself
he wished the Noble Lord, in turning his attention to for proposing such a franchise, when last year he pro-
the extension of the franchise, had provided a measure of posed an 8l franchise for Irish counties, which the
Protection to the voters at the poll. The country would House of Lords raised to 121., he (Mr. Bright) could not
be much disappointed at that omission; but he (Mr. understand. No one could object to the Noble Lord's
Berkeley) would endeavour, when the measure was proposal to admit to the franchise every one who paid
ender discussion, to give the voter that protection 40s. annually in direct taxes; but he hoped it was not
which was so necessary, and which the country so ur- proposed as any great measure. The direct taxes were
gently demanded. not so many that many would be admitted under them
Mr. P. HOWARD differed from the Hon. Baronet in addition to those who were otherwise qualified; and
opposite (Sir J. Walsh) as to the light in which the he believed it would have no perceptible effect in in-
proposed measure should be viewed. The country would creasing the number of voters. The Noble Lord had
be pleased with it, for the announcement of the extension refused to disiranehise any boroughs—he did not speak
of the franchise had been received with exultation. of Sudbury and St. Albans, but of the small boroughs
Sir R. H. INGLIS said that this was one of the most —but proposed to lessen what was called family in-
important questions which could be submitted for debate, fluenee in such constituencies by adding neighbouring
let the four Gentlemen who had spoken since the Noble towns to them. It was impossible to deny that if the
iford had introduced the question, and had all taken dif- franchise was lowered from 10/. to Si., and the neigh-
ferentgrounds, would appear from the silenceof the House homing small towns were added, the constituencies
10 have represented only their own opinions. The last oe- would be increased, and in some cases family
,Jion of the kind in which the Hon. Member for Radnor- influence might be destroyed. Therefore, if it
;Tire (Sir J. Walsh) had called to remembrance was was a question between allowing such a state
"erneg in his mind. Tee occasion of 1852 was very of things to remain and accepting this measure,
Pifferent from that of 1832, when the subject was first he allowed the change would be some gain, but he could
erought forward. On the latter occasion every place not agree with the principle ors which it was grounded.
Within the House and in the passage was crowded with The Noble Lord had spoke of maintaining the balance of
eager listeners to the discussion. At the present time, parties. [Lord J. Russsil—No.] Well, the balance of
ac-
the at the benches when the Noble Lord introduced power, perhaps the balance of interests; but if he ac-
e! subject, they were certainly tolerably well filled ; cepted the principle of representations at ail, he should
_ci.as soon as he had sat down the House relapsed into not seek to have the Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Walsh) at
itr,Klifference, and the attention of Members was propor- one extreme, and him (Mr. Sieger), as it might be eon-
:;hullably diminished. But the Noble Lord had intro- sidered, perhaps, at the other, but that the proportion of
wit
. two or three questions not necessarily connected opinion in the House should assimilate to the proportion
I reform, but of vital importance to the interests of of opinion in the country, and not that as when the
fishcountry—.(Elear)—upon which he wished to say a question of free trade was settled long ago—(lronical
s w Words. The Noble Lord had introduced in his cheers and laughter)—and when, he would nut say 9
"fgresseh two or three objects which should form tl*matter out of 10, but certainly 3 out of 4of the people of this
ebsteparate legislation, and which he would have better country, had long disposed of the' question, Hon. Gen-
imouinthl from introducing ; but his (Sir R. Inglitt's) tlemen opposite should muster vetes that nearly
?tent
objection was with respect to the great reli- equalled the votes on that side of the House.—(Hear,
?.._us question, which was unconnected with Peale,- and laughter.) Why had he mentioned this but to
"lesertitarY reform, and not merely to the removal of prove that free trade had no adequate representation in
elude particular words which had hitherto ex- the House, and that the opposite opinions had a far
od, and had been intentionally devised to lager representation than they would have been entitled
' ude—or, at all events, the practice had the to had the representation been ftsirly apportioned over
14h1lehest sanction which could be binding upon the country? He supposed the Noble Lord would
thitall,:a body of our fellow-subjects, as some called maintain what he called the balance of interests, but he
a —ts ; hut he regarded them as strangers who held would find it was not the balance of interests,
ercreed distinct, alien, hostile, and inconsistent with our but the dead lock, under which his Government
treeded, and whom the Noble Lord now proposed to in- would be unable to march.--(Hear, hear.) If Hon.
de nee by that very side-wind which he had himself Gentlemen opposite were to come into power to-morrow
state on a former occasion. The Noble Lord they would be precisely in the same difficulty; and so
el e 4 when he introduced his great measure of 1831, long as opinion was in greater progression out of doors
suet it was not a measure of revolution. They, on the than in the House of Coremens, tio long Government
ether side, contended that it was in all its subtantial would be in the position in which it then was—namely,
,P:_rs, a measure directly revolutionary. A very few that they would wish to do that which the House of
Noble
had:hardly elapsed when a Noble Colleague of the Commons would not allow them to do, and which the
rte Lord's declared in so many words the measure of people insisted on having done.—(hear, beer.) If they
reformllottodwas a measure of revolution, stating it as such, were to go out, and Hon. Gentlemen opposite were to
whi , isapprove of it, but to jestify it by its result, come in, they would find themselves in the very same
13._.en he declared to have been unmixed prosperity. position, and they would soon be sent to the place from
..,uthe Noble Lord had said that the country was not whence they came.—(A laugh.) He had expected the
lieueet,e tried by a revolution every year; and had the Noble Lord was going to matte some
iTenrllit Lord given the country any hope that another ex- specs to the smaller boroughs having each two represen-
t would not be made in progress with re-
,1872 or within a shorter tatives, and he hoped the question was not yet settled
period2l The unprescriptible character of the institutions adversely to his (Mr. Bright's) views. He would just
of theirthey hadtillWrittela constitution had been destroyed, and quote the cases of Harwich and Thetford. The Noble
omeaeit .e" to deal with a charter eareyk —a written Lord might find country towns or villages to give them
and thr"' t 0
be found in a few books on the table, larger constituencies, but was it consistent with the
would re "no security that the Noble Lord himself opinions he had expressed that night and during his
evil hot be the first to introduce a change in its pro- whole political lite-to enlarge Harwich and Thetford,
wal° s• As to universal suffrage, he did not think it and to allow them two members, while each of the
power'o much to be dreaded by the possessors of metropolitan boroughs and the constituency of 25,000
e and property as had been hitherto supposed. that he represented had hut each two Members also?
The largest experiment which had been made with was it possible an arrangement like that could be per-
Lrespect to it had occurred recently in a neighbouring tnanent? No, of course not; and next session the
eantry, and they had seen that it was no ecurity to question to transfer one of the Members from some of
liberty or property, and that it was the most efficient in- these boroughs would be moved with a force of argue
etrument for conferring the largest amount of power meet which he defied any Minister to meet with any-
Which
modern Europe had seen concentrated in the thing like satisfaction to his own mind and reason, and
tthandso of one man. There was no security that those in thresame way he would be met with the question of
7e:upported his (Sir R. Inglis's) Noble Friend on this the 20'. tranchise and the vote by ballot. If he believed
Zit
lion would not bring forward other measures of a with the Hon. Baronet there was hazard in introducing
testecr ger nature. He (Sir R. Inglis) therefore pro- much more of the democratical element into the House;
Which against this constant tinkering of the Constitution, and if with such views he was intrusted by the Queen to
It t eleserved far more respect than had been shown make a proposition, he would take away such a glaring
p' 00i!. his Noble Friend.—(Hear ) There was another detect as this from those who would hereafter advocate
ashamed
point to which he (Sir R. Inglis) was almost change. The Noble Lord had not told them what he
as that
to refer, after adverting to such a minor subject intended to do with these small boroughs, and he (Mr.
'ilZtt he had just alluded to—namelys the religious Bright) submitted it was his bounden duty to
thes_unnt by which the Noble Lord proposed to admit withdraw from all these boroughs, which re-
„u_7 who differed in religion from the bulk of the na- quired an addition to make up the constituency, one
Unit and who were almost alien in other respects, to a Member, and to give that Member in each case to large
e`je4ll,lll Parliament. This he (Sir H. Inglis) most de- constituencies, or to large towns not now represented.
et ,7143' objected to, and should oppose by every means The Noble Lord bad touched on the question of oaths,
;:te.t.ls power. After such a subject as that—One so im- at which the Hon. Berunet on the other side hid taken
;I',urthut as well as so sacred—he was almost ashamed to great offence. He (Mr. Bright) spoke disinterestedly on
Fend to so comparatively low a subject as the pro- that subject, because he was not obliged to take an oath
.1, qualification proposed to be abolished by his hinaselt, the House admitting, in the case of those cir-
,,u° e Friend. But this point was one of those de- cumstanced like him, a simple declaration; but he was
Foneeptic elements which his Noble Friend was so bound to say that he believed such a declaration would
uof encouraging in this Bill. The result of its be quite as binding on the consciencelidscience of any Hon. Mem-
-11-4Ption would be to throw open the House to any ber as an oath; and ho thought that Parliament should
te_tsturer—of whom there were too many always show the world that the gentlemen who met in that
(84;3.--by separating power from property. To this he Uouce regarded their word as tantamount for all pun-
s,t,r, Inglis) would not willingly agree. With respect poses of perpetual obligation as much as most statesmen
eet'ne minor points of the proposed measure he should did an oath. The French revolution of 1848 bad, upon
'tst.t't then dwell upon them, as there would be so many a retrospect of the past sixty years, abolished all oaths
Yolsortunities of discussing them in their details; he except that taken by one person; and they now found
oe'oeuld not, therefore, longer occupy the House on that to their cost that his was the only obligation that had
nseahion• Bat he was unwilling, when his Noble Friend been broken and disregarded. With regaid to the ge-
tng introduced a measure, and so extensive in its nature, neral question he (Mr. Bright) regretted that the Noble
11t it should be permitted to pass even through its first Lord had left so many quastions unsettled; but he ad-
stage without one voice, at least, being raised against milted that the measure proposed an extension of poli-
the religious portion of the proposition, which he would tical rights, and he believed that the country would be
aver was most offensive to the great bulk of the people grateful to the Noble Lord for bringing forward, with-
;or England, and which therefore he trusted Parliament out compulsion, a proposition which, it carried, would
lould not stiffer to stand on the Bill of his Noble Friend. leave the representation of the country in a far more sa-
!tt_reiit
knew there were those, supporters of his Noble tistactory condition than it was at present.—(Cheers.)
-Ltd, who wished to abolish all oaths whatsoever; but Mr. BAILLIE said the Noble Lord and his Govern-
-lest s some instance, ancient
dared in which civili.sed or modern, couldbe a- m
ference to a higher autireiety, existed without any re- pledge given to his supporters at the close of the las t
could and elicit truth, he to sanction obligations
sessione of Parliament. He (Mr. Baillie) was not, how-
would consent to the aboulietior ofe
Bel and fornever ever, surprised at the speech of the Hon. Member for
Which constituted this country a liat form oneof words' Manchester.: ln fact he should have been surprised if
l'arliament the Christian Christian country, and those with whom reform was an article of political faith
People.—(Hear.) assembly of a Christian did not experience some dieappointrnent at so imperfect
t, Mr. BRIGHT said he had been e ddeaeouring a measure being substituted as a satisfactory solution of
'tile h. • portions of the Noble Loll-
he
was
s proposition,
to weigh the question of reform, by so old and experienced a Re.
and former as the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
bound in fairness to admit that--
while there one of those who held reform as an
14...°,4,, eof which he entirely disapproved, and . were Baillie) was not
in ,
-etY far short of what the country expected, which fell article of his political faith, or who,believed
fact,
othe there were r) • but the necessity had been de-
fectionr Portions which would give some degree of satis reform to be necessA ,
ent and Llio first Minis-
to those outside the House. It Was difficult r- cided by her Majesty'e Government . .
of
Minis-
Say how h d•t Would do—not speaking ,_
the 0 ter of the Crown had, in the last session Parliament,
die . Mlle goo 1.. in declared it desirable .
direction of the Ron. Baronet (Sir J. Walsh), but in to IDOrease the power of the demo-
't eraey of this country. A Minister making such a de-
esPeet to those who desired the extension of the frau.
Ohl cleration however, was to excite great
~,, 66; but as it would be all over the country to-nior- ~x_ewath calculated as it
--wt he thought it quite fair for those who di:fared con_ l'
have beer
and arouse great masses of the people, should
atiderably from the Hon. Baronet's views, while they had setisfactionot Prepared with a measure more likely to give
he oPportunity, to make some remarks on the speeches not be said to bean
who, under those circutnstanees,could
of thus discontented. Was the measure
e who differed from then, which might go to the of the Noble LouredieslY eottntry also. The great and democratic portion of the great body of the Reformers
ted to give satisfaction to the
trctiosition, was the 51. franchise for boroughs, and he Badlie) maintained that of this country ? He (Mr.
peed with the Noble Lord, that the classes to which he would point out Someit was not, and to that end
the franchise Was to be given were perfectly competent would prevent it from insuring radical defects which
"'Cr he dtd not mean every man of them, for that was not core Refoi mars. Assaming,fotrhtehconfidench of all sin-
a4° even of the present franchise—but taking them as 1 the statement of the Noble Lord le
4:ake of argument,
of "41°10, to discharge its duties, and in that portion I rent, end that it was desirable therefortesession was cor-
ona the kingdom in which those classes were the most i power of the democracy of the county to
.increase the
, ;fteldnerous they might with perfect propriety little remarkable that the first and Le
tyie,t
eitb !vas mesa
ea__ nonfldenee be entrusted with it.—(Hear.) He now sure to secure that object was altogether Omhious
,_tiowit them performing the duties of voting in their pa- !hie Bill—olio ether ignored—namely,
sbertietthd from
Vitt" with great and undeniable propriety. He saw duration of Parliaments.. It was generally astniitTencf thatthe
Pen ?ever they elected in the poor-law unions ex- 1 the increase of the duration
eonf Parliament had been the
'n'led the poor-rates properly and honestly, and that ' • blow ever inflicted democracy iu this coun
en these 1 heaviest-
enern classes elected municipal corporatioea in ' try, inasmuch as it made the Members tree, and remit-
' /4,11-.8 and cities those bodies showed no destructive pro.. I tea the prospect of being called to account by their Con.
44
IltiltY, but were about as respectable and trustworthy I stituente to too remote a period- to influence their con-
. eitietl7 bodies that could be elected by any other class of duet. It was well known that Hon. Members held a dif-
for ells in the country—(Hear, hear)—and he tools it ferent course at the commencement of a Parliament from
hEreanted that they had precisely the same interest in I that which they held towards its close; and if proof were
eoasuesgvthe good government of the country, and in the I
, wanting, it was furnished by the Noble Lord himself.
ethat.ation of order, as any one else, be his property I The Noble Lord represented a large and liberal consti-
tueneeltt might. Therefore. though many might be re- tuency. For the first four years, however, of the present
.0 Mr the boroughs who would not be the wisest ' Parliament, thouh the HOD. Member for Montrose an-
ho" In thee country—and there were many returned from ! neatly brought forward the question of Parliamentary
count
(Ala Hiles now who were known not to be Scions— i Reform, on every occasion he was firmly—udy, obsti-
Th4gwh)—still they would just be as good as before. t nately—oppesed by the Noble Lord and the members
eo__.,easone serious defect in the Bill with regard to the of his Government. The Noble Lord entered into no
tetia'at of the borough franchise which he could have , compromise with the Hon, Member on those occasiens;
th tie to see
e use removed. It had been charged against but on the contrary, did not spare his sarcasms upon
vote_ se that many of its Members came there through ! him and the party who supported him. Such was the
st reed upon the e thad never said 'position of the Noble
that
_ lecto.s; but he
Ployed Landowoers were more inclined to force those em- of reform until the middle of the last • 'I r rlia-
pie on their pro 'est their con- meat, that which the i session o a
h "'me% than any otherotherwhen eloquence
class of the community. In the Hon. Member for Montrose could not effect was accom-
Isuire, there wer e kingdom, in Yorkshire and Lan- plished by the near approach of the period of dissolution;
Persons each, a l
re firms employing from 500 to 5,000 , and at the close of the session accordin House
would age Portion -who surprised
of whom were men wasgly the
to hear that the Noble Lord and his Ca-
s„,_ be electors under the
;',inere were besides a Bill of the Noble Lord. binet had been unanimously converted to reform.—
itten, but the wages gorteaaltl number of women and Ail- (Hear, and laugh:ea) The Noble Lord was, however,
in,°_iise, and the head of that there taken to somehod; 's , much mistaken if he believed the present measure would
.-te' alUat se then, hOuse would have to vote. : give satisfaction, unless it was eccompanied with a
_4 e y, as a large era 1
of
his sorry the' Noble Pto would
of labour, that he ch-1160 to shorten the duration of Parliaments. The next
' 418 hands or out of the h Lord had not taken out I question was ono of great importance—one
audit of Iwhich the
any one similarly ; Noble Lord did not eveu preten to ignore. It was the

de-