The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-12 00:00:00

THE

upon religious sub- I
Church.. You can do much to break it up, by acting in a 1 in his place, and probably his opinions "
t,tiviltr:t of kindness, forbearance, and generosity."-(Cheers.) I jeers had undergone as mach Oman° es his opinions up in
bon,hreason why I recapitulate this brief history of the Slay- I saccharine matters.-(Hear, and a laugh ) Now, he was irr 1
purpose grant is to call back the attention of the Housl to the a position to carry out those wise and coociliatnrY ineaeuree
tho'r)se for which the grant wee made, to consider how far he so mach aarnired.-(Renewed laughter.) Ta!kittg of the I
grant
'e Purposes have answered to justify a continuation of the character of the Irish priests having changed, aoil accusing
as it is, and a refusal of any inquiry. The three put- them of a want of allegiance to the preseat Sovereign, what
poses
for which the grant was made, the "-House will maim_ said the Noble Lord who was supposed alone to represent the
..er are these c-To secure a well' educated, lo'
'al, and domes- chivalry in this House? - the Noble Lord, the First Commis-
be Priesthood; to provide funds fer the instruction of that Eimer of Woods and Forests, when
Prie-
ethood which the Roman Catholics were supposed to be " As free as nature first made man,
too poor t • And wild- in woods the naked savage ran."
h.... to provide for themselves, in order that the priest-
ogd might be brought up in a manner suitable to their holy (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) In one of the best speeches ha
break
and the position they would afterwards fill; and to ever delivered,t and. he had spoken many good ours, he said :
leak up by generosity that formidable conspiracy-(An "The cry is raised, ' The Church is in danger.' I admit that
feonourable Member-" Confederacy ;" and " Hear, hear," it is; but not from this grant to Maynooth, nor from the
fromf Irish Members)-th break up that formidable con- Vatican, nor from the Jesuits, that the Irish Church is in
deracY 'which existed in Ireland against the British peril ; it is from herself ; from her own self-willed and dis-
°vernment and the British connexion. These were the obedient laity that she is in danger. They who would have
,111,Nects for which that grant was made and perpetuated. her isolate herself from the rest of Catholic Christendom,
ell, then, I ask, has the grant in any instance answered fraternize with the Puritan, and denounce priestcraft with
the Purpose tor which it was given ?-( Hear, hear.) That the Presbyterian ! I admit the Church to be in danger. I
18 a question which I think you are bound to answer for am irresistibly reminded of the dying words of the matte-red
'ourselves before you determine whether any Committee of Laud on the scaffold. They may who list trace all the glory,
Inquiry is necessary or not. Has the grant, or has it not, pro- renown, and magnificence of the old English monarchy to
tided a well-educated, loyal, and domestic priesthood for the the. Dutch conquest of 1688, even in the penal code and Pro-
People of Ireland? It may have done so up to a certain testant ascendancy the safeguards of the empire; but, for
Point, but observe what rumour says, for I am not going to myself, I claim a liberty to mount higher, and to. act in
give any opinion of my own upon the subject.-( Del isive 1815 as though William 111. had died Stadtholder of Hol-
cheers from the Irish Members.) What I say is this, that land."--(Hear, hear.) Is he going to act in 1852 as if
there is strone• reason to believe that many of the priesthood William of Orange had died Stadtholder of Holland?-
educated in tat college are members of different orders, who (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord proceeded with some very
are sent out to different countries, and who do not remain a pretty poetry :-
domestic priesthood in Ireland.-(Cheers.) And, if I am "The priests, those gentle priests and good,
right in my conclusion, I say that it is a material ground Their fathers loved to hear, • .
for us to go upon before we decide at once to withdraw the Sole type below, midst work and woe,
grant made for giving a domestic priesthood to Ireland, to Of the God whom they revere."
see if it be applied for the purpose of giving a priesthood to " Acknowledge frankly, and at once, that power which
other countries, and to inquire whether we are spending Eng- you admit to be so grea,t, and . which hitherto, with a fatal
lish money for such purposes.-(Loud Ministerial cheers.) obstinacy, you pretended to ignore. Accredit a minister
But, independendently of.that, has or has not the character to the Vatican-(Cheers)-receive a Nuncio at St. James's
of the priesthood changed of late years? I suspect the an- -(Cheers and laughter.) . • - • With every feeling of
sever must be instead of domestic influence, foreign influence confidence as a Churchman, that lam not acting disloyally
has more weight with the priesthood in Ireland.-(Loud towards the Church in sanctioning this measure, and, as a
cheers.) I think we shall find that the priesthood of Ire- statesman, that I am promoting the best interests of my
land, instead of confining themselves, as they ought to do country. I give my vote for the permanent endowment of
to the purpose of extending and supporting their own re- the College of Maynooth." Those were the opinions of two
ligion and their oe n religious views, have, in fact, proved members of the Cabinet-two consistent supporters of the
of an aggressive character, which does constitute what Sir permanent endowment of Maynooth. But there was an-
n. Peel calls a confederacy-I will not say a formidable other member of the present Cabinet who consistently op-
confederacy-against the British Crown and the British posed this grant-the present Chancellor of the Exchequer-
connexion.- (Cries of " Hear, hear," from Mr. G. H. the man who carried brains with him.-(A laugh) He
Moore]. I allude more particularly to what has taken place (Mr. Osborne) must crave their forbearance ; though after
since Dr. Cullen was raised to the Primacy of the Roman the polemics they had had introduced by the reverend gen-
Catholic Church. The character of the Priesthood of Ireland tleman-(Loud laughter)-he begged the Hon. Gentleman's
has been Materially changed by that measure. When the pardon-introduced by the Hon. Gentleman, the House
Roman Catholics desired emancipation in the year 1814, I might be inclined to manifest some little impatience, but he
e produce proofs to you, from the highest authority, that begged their attention to this speech of the Chancellor of
they
then laid it down as a proposition which they wished the Exchequer. because it was upon this speeech
~the Government to believe, that the domestic priesthood of that he based his opposition to the present mo-
re country would not be superseded by foreign bishopu tion. The Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr.
`eing brought over. Since we have had Dr. Cullen in Ire- Disraeli) was quarrelling not with Maynooth, but with
land, we have had foreign influence exercised there, and Sir Robert Peel. It was in a speech delivered on the 11th of
events so recent as in the last ear will show that the cha- April, 1845, and he believed that was the first occasion when
teeter of the education of the priesthood in Ireland has not the Right Hon: Gentleman totally fell out with Sir R. Peel.
been‘ so domestic as the promoters of this grant 140 doubt an- The Right Hon. Gentleman opposed the present endowment,
" ciPated.-(Hear, hear.) If this be so, Ido not say it is a but not upon the grounds taken by the Hon. Member for
Justification for you to take away the grant, but I do say it North Warwickshire. He had no feeling in common with
la a justification for ou to make the inquiry, in order that the Hon. Gentleman; for, in fact, the Right Hon. Gentle- 1
the facts- if they be not as I have conjectured-may be man (Mr. Disraeli) was asleep during the delivery of the
rightly interpreted.-(Hear, hear.) With regard to the Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Spooner's) speech-not in a Tree-
second point-namely, the poverty under which the col. sury sleep, but in a bona fide sleep, if the .Right Houourable
lege was labouring, and the reason, therefore, for Gentleman ever did sleep.-(Hear, hear, and laughter.) "I
/17ing an extended grant to that college. I remem- oppose this Bill on account of the manner in which it has
her when that Act b ht in it was accompanied been introduced, and on account of the men by whom it is
fre wasbrought
Is(a , brought in by the Right Honourable Baronet the brought forward Are we to be told, that be-
, ember for Ripon, for establishing the Queen's Colleges in cause those men have crossed the floor of the. House, and
4reland. Those two acts must be taken together, as part of have abandoned with their former seats their former profes-
-one measure. They were simultaneously introduced; they sions, are we to be told these men's actions are to remain
wereo intended to have one object; they were Proposed with uncriticised and . unopposed, because they tell us to look to
one view. That object and that view was a national and the merits of their measures, and to forget themselves and
rnestte
Roman
one.. It was to heal religious differences, to bring their former protestations 2-( Hear.) Let us endeavour to
'`,,Otnita Catholics and Protestants into one common scheme put an end to the misconception and subterfuge which now
Jeducation, where asperities might be worn off, where con- surround us.-(Cheers.) You lave permitted men to
filiation
I might be encouraged, where friendship and good gain power, and enter place, and then carry measures
he'Llng might •andwhere all le' n exactly the reverse to those which they professed in Oppo-
spring up,
-live
b unhappily afflicted that unhappy country, might be sition-(Hear, hear)-and you are reconciled to this proce-
er°ught to an end.-Hear, hear. ) How has that sue- dure by being persuaded that by carrying measures which
ceded? Since Dr. Cullen . ' p •of Ireland you disapprove of and they pretend to aisrelish, they are
there h
_ e as been a synod at Thurles, and the decrees of that making what they call the ' best bargain' for you. The
synod have been confirmed by the Court of Rome, and by Parliamentary course is for this House to have the advantage
an those decrees no Roman Catholic bishop is allowed to have of a Government formed on distinct principles.----(Loud
toybrac,e in any of those colleges ;no ecclesiastic is allowed cheers.) Here is a Minister who habitually brings forward
a professor or dean in those colleges ; and the laity as his own measures those schemes and proposals which he
Were
aberecommended at least, thoueh not actually enoined, to bitterly denounced and opposed in Oppositiun.-(Renewed
hear'"ull fruill sending their children to them. -j(" Heel., cheers.) Let me ask the admirers of this 'best-bargain'
Geni from Mr. G. H. Moore.) The Honourable system bow they think the Right Honourable Gentle-
Gentleman cheers, but what is the inference which man would have acted in OPposition?" " Let us tell per-
re_c ?use and the country will draw from it? The infe- sorts in high places that cunning is not caution, and that
iir rents is, that the object which my Right Hon. Friend had habitual perfidy is not high policy of State."--( Loud
laturein.ging in those Bills, and the object of the legie- cheers.) And in all his (Mr. Osborne's) reading be
sect au Passing them-the benevolent and conciliatory ob- never read anything so graphic as the Right Hon. Gentle-
Undei been defeated and destroyed by those who are acting man's definition of the state of Ireland, and upon that state-
i., . . foreign influence.-(Loud Ministerial cheers.) But meat he grounded his opposition to the present motion. He
that is not l . Disraeli) said, " The present condition of Ireland was to
the no al. Since that has happened, yon (addressing (Mr.
Your rt. Member) have endeavoured to establish colleges-of be traced not to Protestantism, but to Puritanism-(Hear.)
~,...n own. If you establish those colleges of your own, you They would see a a teeming population, which, with reference
in ot complain if we say it is for the purpose of separating to the cultivated soil, was denser to the square mile than
etiunra Catholics from Protestante--(No, no)-of keeping that of China, created solely by agriculture, with none of
civilize-
Priesthood from the laity-(No, no)-and of keeping the those sources of wealth which are developed with civilize-
(Ernehse°,'; under foreign influence, by ultramontane laws.- tion, and sustained consequently upon the lowest conceiy-
Poini -"c Cries of ~ No, no," order, and cheers.) The last able diet, so that in case of failure they had no Other means
forth is thk, most material one. Sir Robert Peel said he sent of subsistence upon which they could fall back. That dense
the
honourable
mein'
o„,,„perre as a messenger of peace, that he sent it, as population in extreme distress inhabited. an island where.
in a, id,-"r,assie Member for North Warwickshire bad said, there was an t;stablished Church, which. was not their
setti era'. and confiding spirit-that he intended it to church, and a territorial aristocracy, the richest of whom
*meld:Teat religious differences, and to break up this lived in distant capitals. Thus they had starving popti4i-
ther th ble Confederacy. I ask any man who hears me who- tion, an absentee aristocracy, and an alien Church, and, in
e grant has had that effect-whether the system of addition, the weakest Executive in the world. That was the
education Irish question."- (Cheers.) But the Right Hon. Gentleman,
whet,there established has accomplished its object-
fele in the some of the best supporters of that Act have not apostrophizing Sir Robert Peel, and even then foreseeing, as
reser le greatest degree disappointed at the failure of the he (Mr. B. Osborne) predicted at he time, that he would
ow, ~8 intended to flow from it?-(Hear, hear.) We feel one day be Minister-he said," The enonent you hale a strong
roe4uiesaoppointment all the more bitter, because we have no Executive, a just Administration, and ecclesiast quality,
euh: f bringing about those beneficial and peaceful ye- you will have order and peace in Ireland."-(Loul cheers.)
Peepsnich I firmly believe-was the object of Sir Robert ( Here Mr. Walpole Was about to leave the House, when the
ever overnment to bring about, when those two Acts Hon. Gentleman exclaimed-As the Right Hon. Gentleman
ly,, Ll,l?tyoduned.___(Hear, hear.) There is one answer which is going to find the volume, I will give him the date before he
tiin"eullipation I must notice, and it is the same as is con- goes.-(Laughter.) He will find it in a speech delivered April
tier l_ll the proposed amendment of the Honourable Mein- 11, 1845.) He continued-It was because there was. no
forine,re Kerry, that visitors of the College are appointed to ecclesiastical equality at this moment that he refused to be a
the into the management, discipline. and government of party in aiming this one-sided blow at his Roman Catholic
ofee college,
k and therefore no inquiry by a Committee is fellow-countrymen. He could not look at this queslion in
ter"arY. Has the Honourable Member referred year the light of a common endowment. He looked at it in the
WhetliVr to the reports of those visitors? Does he know light and as of the nature of a restitution. These were the
th
..r the inquiries of the visitors will answer words used in this House by a Noble Lord, who was now
e,e_,Dbiect of the honourable Member for North War- member of another House-the Earl of Harrowby, then Lord
'cleshire? I will take the last of these reports, and it &undon, who represented Liverpool; and they were used also
!'s a very good sample of the whole of them. The report by the Noble Lord the Member for the city of London.
goes into 1,...„ e any complaints by the president, any complaints The Noble Lord looked upon it then in the light of a restitu-
t7", superiors or professors, any complaints by the students ; tion. He hoped the Noble Lord still looked upon it in that
"11 as to the oath of allegiance being takeii by the light, and that he would not consent-though he lead been
atudent,
of .„. , and then into the detail of the number and duties quoted to-night along with Caseabucius - (Laughter) -that
se the professors; then as to any change or alteration of he would not consent to be a party in. aiming this direct
ietaii °liege i d:scipline or any improvement in the system of insult at the Roman Catholics, that he. would not pander to
4.ecation within its walls. The visitors wound up by saying the prejudices of Englishmen, some of whom might be
,wcla.y, had concluded the necessary inquiries, and the House honest, but many of whom were merely scheming for the
were in
See all the inquiries which they considered necessary next election- he hoped the Noble Lord would not pander
subject inquiries which bad nothing whatever to do with the to the base feelings of these fanatics and schemers, and
,_ under discussion. I think that the inquiry ought to that he would resist the motion.-(Hear, hear.) He could not
iol.,granted upon the three grounds to which I have adverted, understand a party talking of the love they bore to the Ro-
diti,seeing ate 1 do, or at least as I think I do, that the con- man Catholics, at the same time that they addressed them in
ne_vrie upon which this grant was made have not been ads- terms such as were used by the Hon. Member s for North
11-o`4, !a: or completely fulfilled, and seeing that the reason Warwickshire, followed, as he was, in milder language
rant as
it was made are no longer existing to the same ex- though in the same spirit, by the Right Hon. the Home
;•.,ne s they were when it was made, since we hear that Secretary. If they eat erect into a political union with Ire.
Ca-
S' are forthcoming to endow other colleges opposed to the land, the mass of whose population were Roman Ca-
' irtrwe intended to establish i and seeing that the objects tholics, they were bound to put the priesthood of that
objects-have Robert Peel had in view-those Peaceful, loyal, domestic people on, a footing of equality with the Protestants. If
th tB--have not been accompliShed as Parliament hoped Parliament wculd not do that-if they refused to give to
toy;tVollid be'acComplished, I think the country has a right Irishmen their just rights-then he said they were bound
7; 4k, and Parliament is bound to concede, some inquiry.- to dissolve the Union. But they had no right to come
._l.icnd Ministerial cheers.) Unless I have been anticipated down to tlis House, and while they g.ve 35,0031. as ma
by the cheers of Honourable Gentlemen opposite, who seem Begiurn Donum to the Presbyterians, refuse this paltry vote
`-(Hear
lam shrinking from an avowal of my own opinions of 26,0001. to the Roman Catholics, and thus offer another
that • ar, herir)-I wish those opinions to abide the .result of insult to the feelings of the mass of the population. But,
Inquiry, I did not with and I do not wish to prejudge said the Hon. Gentleman, in the true pulpit- ground style
the question,-(Derisive cheers.) I repeat it again I did of oratory, I object to the propagation of error, and the
not wish and Ido not wish to prejudge the question. The Hon. Gentleman quoted a great many extracts, which they
result..e of that inquiry may be a complete withdrawal or abo- all had the misery of hearing, from a variety of books, some
clietivn. of that grant, or such changes as- may be easily con- of which were not text -Woke of Maynooth at all. At one
ted would amount to the abolition of the grant. From all time he. feared_ the lion. Gentleman was about to quote
this,.l frankly say on the part of myself and on the part of the whole works of Thomas Aquinas, who wrote
the
Government, we do not wish to be precluded, but we 140 volumes -(Laughter.) lie also quoted from the works
wish that there should be such an inquiry that the whole of a M. Baille, whose name the Honourable Gentleman
question may be investigated, and so Sc tied at some future pronounced in such a manner that some Gentlemen thought
clay, when the facts are known and ascertained, as to carry it was henry Baillie, a Member of this House-( Laughter.)
cut the intentions of the Legislature, and contribute, as far He (Mr. Osborne) must protest against such a course. This
May be. to the peace and prosperity of thecountry. ' House had no right to have its time wasted, its attention
Mr. 0-3BORL • •
BERNAL NL said, as he represented an distracted, and the worst passions of the people excited by
English constituency, he might have consulted his general the speech of the Hon. Gentleman. The Hon. Gentleman
convenience, and have, attempted to evade the question had no business to make this House a rostrum from which
brought forward to-nigut. by the Honourable Gentleman the to address his North Warwickshire • constituents.-(Elear,
thisember for North Warwickshire. But as he looked upon hear.) The Hon. Gentleman was followed .by the -Noble
motion - mean attempt to raise
as a , - Lord the Member for Woodstock whose abilities no one would
(Loud cheers)-upon which Honourable Gentlemen might deny, and he had no doubt that when the Noble Lord had
go to the hustings, he would not for one instant shrink from '
ex • • • • a little more information, and had read more of the books
pressing his opinion, nor would he pander to what he con- wh h they alltold
aidered base fanaticism, even should it lose him the c were
Attlence of his constituency.-(Cheers.) The non con- come to the conclusions at which he now appeared to have
eleeember for North Warwickshire commenced his speech upon
arrived. But when the Noble Lord said he refused to pro-
:Ills subject, as he always commenced it, with assurancesp :elf I'l'tgate error, he asked him how he would get over the fact
the greatest 'goodwilland love towards his Roman Catholic atest that In
Mauritius,many of our colonies-in Malta, in Gibraltar, in the
felle. and in Canada-Roman Catholicism was
his next breath he followed it up
telling
but in
a creed
suing the House, they professed subversive of looked
all •and injuriousto morality. The House had heard 1
egiance
and, they would find that this House had guaranteed
and therefore he need not follow the Hon. Member in all the the • •
'Meta'and text books, but Ireland ions he had made from casuists l establishment of Roman Catholicism. . Even in
they would find that 280 chaplains of work- •
,e; for One, objected to the motion of the Honourable Mem- houses were paid and
cerhe Ur House,
v , because, when he remembered the course ( , supported by direct votes of this
se. Nay, if he rememberedthe Government of
rightly,
looner) hadpursued, and the unmeasured length the day founded in 1833
always
O' d • • •always indulged of Hiacloo' a Hindoo college for the propagation
. enunciation in which be had ism. He wondered if the Hon. Gentleman was as
Zuli regard to his Roman Catholic fellow-subjects, he (Mr. well acquainted- with the Hindoo system. d • he
would was persuaded the appointment of the Committee professed to be with Roman Catholicism? of divinity as
What was the.
bould be only to confirm a foregone conclusion.-( Hear, llouse to think of the odourof
ear-) When the North Warwickshire at the Maynooth gnat and
Hon. Member for
swallowed the Brahminical camel?
called upon the of educe- -(Cheers.) What were h
then .
House to inquire into the system
ced those dot ' tey to think of a system which
i Pursued in this college, it was not for the purpose of pronoun trines to be damnable th t ht
lit;9_, iring into the ,system.ofeducation, but for the purpose at Maynooth, and yet overlooked the • a were taug
"` nestroying th t, •
/enda eat /eo ' -
e oman Catholic system of religion. e- ea ?-(Continn d •
eta Were they to suppose e cheering.)
Honour- that- the lion Gentleman
able Member„ had beef the constant of the
ley , - .cry for North
Warwickshire, together with •hie felt.
loves his Ro ' "'ear, hear.,) He cheers that and yet he.follower the Home Secre-
man Catholic tart' who by the way was the only member
Irish Members.! fellow-subjects.- ow-s h ts. (Ch from the
The u jec - (.beers was not asleep during his of the Cabinet
pelting to-night wh e Honourable Member had been re- that
n. speech-(Laughter)-
ference, that in 113 at;tke
~ rehearsed -in 1845, with thin dif- had greater respect for
it htt doos there they had for Roman
4,5 te.er
resist ; now his erienda a was a. great muster in power to Catholics? No;. e they knew that if
. were there to treat India as they treated
it into action. If anything 0 and were about to carry they werelreland this
very speedily totter to •
prise at the conduct of.th could. have increased his sur- 1 great empire would . its foundatiots -
e pre the Right Honourable Secretary .
aPeech uttered by I,
tae Secretaryene Government it was the ! (Cheers ) • But then said
of character of the Roman Catholic priesthood was
partment. Under the oice or " State for the Home De- that the
language he left the Ilotise to imaginehis
the chief conductors of the •
Member for North Warwickshire ear.) The Honourable 1 that they had been among
Right
Hon. Gentleman Insur-
from Sir Robert Peel's speeh a, . 'Noted several ! Con in 1848. Had the . •taken the
to this in • extracts rec 1 the statistics of Maynooth? \V as be
remembered right, the. Honourable al trHY- But if he pains to inquire into
brought up at Maynooth
amendment, the same as the motion he enmo - -t
Supported an aware that Primate Cullen was nut
w mad
answer of Sir RobertePeel was, that the power ue, and the at all? Was be aware that in
might choose to call it, there
and the power in the hands of the Loid-Lieutenant, the Visitors, or conspiracy, or whatever be
h Maynooth who at all
ci for the purpose ; and as to a utenant, were ; was ooly one riest connected with •
Father Kenyon? Yet the
would only increase animosity between RomanaY inquirY it IsY th din it, and that was , , mem . ise
I' Catholiindecency to come forward on
rotestants, not only in Ireland, bat in this co cs and • i Right lion. Gentleman had the
that he was for
(Cheers.) And now he (Mr. Osborne) came to thrtr
Y.- I the eve of a general election, and tel
.them ,
e di-loyal, and
Pursued by the then supporters of Sir Robert Peel and the ! an inquiry, because he l`daynooth
pnesthe wottrher 'hand, that
13,1;eent members of din Government ; and if he should be a 1 abetted rebellion. etas he aware,
ee
t •ee en athisers with
little tedious is
reag extracts not perhaps from such i sn7tY College, Dublin, furnished man.) ..?
that the famous
learned_ divines, but probably from as great statesmen, he l son" O. Brien ? - (Hear.) Was he aware
mast throw himself upon the indulgence of the House. The 1 g which rang through all Ireland-
~
etle Member for You ry
ghal had read to them the opinion of I was the " Whu fears to speak of '9B,
ell Stanley in June, 1845, and what he said upon an ' lien ?-
, (Gear,
e prcduction of a man educated at Trinity Co 6
ee.'l,adment proposed by the Earl of linden. When Lord !
b, a
oru, hear.) li. there was to be an inquiry at all, let it not
orStanley upon that occasion-took that view, 1 them e, sided inquire ; let them oto Trinity CJilege—/et
f"t did Mr. Paki t the present Secretary of State ' see what was tile systemadoptedall their places of
or the *ng on, . education.-(Cheers.)
tow_ Colonies, think ? "He did not think it in- l Hon. Member forers.) But a great point was made.by
tli l'un • with his duty as Churchman to give f borne Secretary, North NVar •• • by the
A end_ a e that they vvicksinre, followed .
cold a ompat of Maynooth his support-not a Protestants for the ey had no right to give the molly of
r hesitating endowment once
extracted by support-not a reluctant support ' denied that this was Protestantent of error. Now he at
ser party tics, but a cordial and willing denied altogether that the
money.-(Cheers.) Ile
eert+Surls founded on deep conviction, first, that they must iin sense Protestantnicine so given to Maynooth wes
lemurs to li eve Maynooth any money, lie h • .
aee"(11 ' that this on its present footing; : cf the public revenue raised Irelandineld in his band a list
ne 3, measure w
Ise and conciliatory policy was called for as a step in that the sth of January, 1851, from which ior the year ending
Government i'a
towards !Ireland which every • total amount was 3,500,000/. sterling,e it appeared that the
0 fit, „
.should.attempt to carry out."-(Hear, hear.) ! tariff of taxation, it would be f and on examiniog the
"14` VSloorue) did not see the found that th
Secretary for the Colonies ; population contributed. by f
i Y ar the larger e Roman Catholic
• Proportion of that

LONDON,

stfm. The entiro public income of Ireland, including church
revenues and , other sources, amounted to 5,000,000 e per
annum ; and of this stern one million was given to the
Protestant cleigy, mid 33,000/. to the Presbyterians, and
only 23,0001. ,to the Roman Catholics; and yet they had the
barefaced resumption_ to.comee down to the House and tell
themithat this paltry grant was given from Protestant
funds.—(Laughter and 'cheers.) ,Ho said it was Roman
Catholic money; that it was tt.ease of restitution; and that
it' all parties had their just' reehtsetb.e Protestant Church
would, not be endowed as it was that day.. flu warned .the
Hon: Member for North Warv,ickshire, who erefeesed such
great and exceeding love for the Protestant Church of e-
land, that if there was one step mere fraught with mischief
to that church than tauother, it was the step 'he had taien
to- i
n itghotnie Secretary , andeeinway
brlc.h_h(eclveaesr) supported The by the
Member
telir lion.
the
North Warwickshire talked of the various sums which had
been given to the Roman Catholic Church. He held in his
band a list of the sums which had been given to, that church
from the Union down to 1845. And now let the House see
the treatment 'which the 'Roman' Catholics had received
at • the 'hands of this House, and the rigorous'
spirit • with which. they had treated Ireland. Since
the Union 5,207,0001. had been given to the Eatab-
liehed Church: The Presbyterian Dissenters had received;
9,000/.; and let the House hear, and 'blush at the
beggarly votes that had been given to the Roman Catholics,
all they hed received was the sum of 375,000/.
_When the •
Hon. Gentleman summed up his speech he told the leletese.
to beware how eteey endowed error. When lie (Mr, COperee)
heard that, be could not hell) being reminded at the:evords of
Mr. Grattan in 1797, who warned the Protestant clergymen
to beware how they used such langedge as the Mu. Gentle-
man had now used, and reminded •them that it was not de- '
cent for them to say, give 'us all the good things in the
name of God, and nothing to the others.—(Cheers.) What-
ever his views might be with regard to the amendment of
the Hon. Member forYoughal and the abstract justice of en-
dowing any religious denomination, he certainly wouli never
be a party to begin with his. Rename Catholic tellowesiubjects.
if the House really intended to- enter into this subject, let
them have an immediate inquiry into the funds of the Esta-
blished Chureb, and the Rogium Donum of the Presbyterians
as well as of the Roman Catholic Church. Bat he would
be no party to this attempt to prop up the rotten
system of Protestant ascendancy by humiliating- the
Roman Catholics. He would . not pander to the .
party cry of the Government with which •to go to the
hustings—a Government acting upon the doctrine-of com-
promise and expediency, .which had.been preached on a late
occasion at the Maneion-house, and was now to be practised
in St. Stephen's. He rested his opposition on the high ground
Of truth and justice. If any one Wok it on the low ground
of economy, he would remind them that it was hardly cone
sistent in them to complains of theiowant of national defences
—to -propose to add to the expenses. of the country -by en-
rolling 80,000 militiamen, while at the same time they were
decuding themselves of their .best national defences—the
confidence and the good will of-the people of Ireland. The
Right Hon. Secretary, of all men, had noemesinees, to assent
to this motion—he bed forsakenhla.pesition,as,a. Minister of
the British Crown, to become the it inieter of .a mere party
of fanatics.--(Cheers.) He realised, the prophecy of that
truly great man the late Mr. Shell, who said,. in 1845., that
if this country should ever fall so low as that Sir Robert
Peel should be succeeded by a Minister who would pander '
to the base passions of religious bigotry in this country, a
party would arise in Ireland of which they had little concep-
tion—a party who would call for. the repeal of the Union,
not on futile grounds, but because that statesman had
abdicated the position of a Minister, and bad split, up the
empire by pandering to the fanatical passions of a portion ef
the people.—(Loud sheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I beg the
indulgence of the House for' a Moment, while I speak to a
point to which reference has been made by the Hon. Gentle-
man who has just sat down. The Hon. Gentleinan quoted
from a speech of mine which he said was delivered in 1815,
and added that in consequence- of 'what he found in that
speech he founded his oppositibn to this motion: There
could be no mistake as to the particular speech referred, to,
because he very ceurteausly,gave the date of it, the llth of
April, 1845, to my Right Hon. Friend;, nor ,could._ there be
any mistake as to the particular speech intended, be-
cause he said the speechionof the state
do ft theo
w thenbioh
Ministry. The Hon. Gentleman then quoted what he called
tahegrHapohuisce deseriplistenedt with attention. Now, there is nothing
of what the Hon. Gentlemen quoted in that speech ; both my
Right Hon. Friend and myself have gone over it, •and there
is not a syllable of what the :lion. Gentleman quoted in the
speech he referred to us.—(Hear,' hear.) -
Mr. BERNAL .OSI3ORNEe—I reiterate my statement
that it is to be found, iu page 361 of " mansard." If
the Right. Lion. Gentleman wishes to get off' in his usual
quibbling waY—(Lelighter, andloud cries of " -Oh, oh")
f beg pardon—iu his usual ingenious way—(Cheers, and
cries of " Oh")—I may State that the last extract I quoted
is to be found in a speech delivered by' him on February 16,
1814, and surely the Hon. Gentleman pill not now eat his
own wordseee(ol), oh.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The Hon.
Gentleman professed to quote from a speech, 'delivered oil The
11th April, 1845. on the subject of Maynooth.—(Loud
cheers.) I said there, was no passage of the kind to be
found is the speech of April I lth ; and now. the Honourable
Gentleman says the quotation is to be found in a speech de-
livered on the 16th of February, 1844. But what has that
'speech to do with the argument I used on the subject of
Maynooth in 1845, and when the Honourable Gentleman
alleged I used a statement on which he grounded his oppo-
sition.---(Cheers.)
Mr. A. HOPE, who was almost inaudible, was understood
to protest against a motion founded .on quotations from
studies connected with a system of faith which had existed
for centuries before that illustrious statesman Sir R. Peel
proposed the endowment of Maynooth. The Hon. Member
had occupied two mortal hours in re-echoing the old charges
against the Catholics, and cui bona? The only result of such
conduct must be to drive to desperation 6,000,000 or
7,00,000 of our fellow-subjects, already smarting under the
insulting legislation of last session. Only six days ago the
House heard with pleasure the Secretary for the Colonies
lay down the sensible and statesmanlike dictum, that no
difference should exist between the European and native in-
habitants of New Zealand as regarded the enjoymept of civil
rights, and now it was proposed to treat the Roman Catholics
of Ireland'with less liberality than was displayed towards
the New Zealanders.. As far as he could tell, the College of
Maynooth had answered its purpose; but, nevertheless, it
was to be offered up as a sacrifice to the spirit of the Dur-
ham letter—to the designing speculation to which the late
Prime Minister —in the most petty days of a Ministry un-
paralled in pettiness—had recourse with the view of prop-
ping his failing power.— (Hear.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE said the Hon. Gentleman who last
addressed the House bad not once touched the question be-
foreit. The Hon. Member for Middlesex ,liad made an
amusing speech, but he showed- himself throughout to be
ignorant of the whole question at issue. Amongst the quo-
tations which the. Hon. Gentleman made, was one which
treated unfairly the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Ex-
f readrn in an
in du notnapply e
ct
to
etquuee rR.
glhttw
Mem-
ber.) Perhaps the Hon. Member would improve the
Irone.brenntliehmaatnt.h—e(°llxteraare,t
extract.—(Mr. Monsell, we believe, " it doesnot require it.")
The Motion made by his HMI. Colleague was designated a
cowardly Motion. He had long been proud of his colleague,
but he Was never so proud of him as he was on that occa-
sion; for, although struck down that day, and driven over,
he vet, rather than forego the opportunity 'of bringing for-
ward, the motion before the House, came down to the House
at all hazards, and brought foeward the question relative
to slaynooth, with that Ability for which -be was so re-
naerkable.—(Cries of ."'Hear, hear.") And this was the
man that was taented with cowardice.— (Hear, hear.)
The motion was met by an amendment by the honourable
Member for Yuughal,' whose object was to get rid of the
'motion by a side-wind.--(Hear, hear.) It was said that
Sir Robert Peel opposed a motion for inquiry into Maynooth
College in 1845. But were there no reasons since 1845
that would warrant an inquiry into the system of education
at Maynooth, even it there was no ground for doing so in
that year? He asked the Honourable Member for Athlone
if he could deny this fact? The late Mr. Shell, in speaking
of the 'College of Maynooth in that House, -in reference
to Den's Thed'Ob said he was no more to be bound to
defend every text in a college book than he was to defend
every text in Coke or Blackstone.—(Hear, hear.) But
the Right Honourable Gentleman added that if there was
any doubt as regarded the teaching in blaynooth, why,
let an inquiry be instituted into the matter, and every
Catholic Member would support a motion to that effect.'
Well, that was all the motion before the House pro-
posed. But Mr.. Shell was dead, and so was Dr. Murray.
But they had still Dr. and the Defence Asso-
ciation, and they had, too, Mr. Cahill, who called on the
Catholics of Ireland to bide their time in the event of
foreign invasion.—(Hear, hear.) The motion of his Hon.
Friend left the House no option. After the facts stated by
his Hon. Friend—supported:as his motion was, by the feel-
ing of the country—it would be impossible to negative the
proposition before the House. The :Honourable Gentleman
then proceeded to contend that the system pursued at May-
nooth made theprieets tyrants-over the people, who were
now flying to America away from the influence of the priests;
and it was a fact,, that dee Cetholics, when they went to
America, left the Church in which they were brought up, and
passed over to Protestaritesm.—(Oh.) These facts could not
be denied. The priests of Ireland, were now setting their
faces against emigration. To show the desire of the priests
for domination; he need only refer to the scene which took'
place at a dinner given to the Hon. Member for Athlone. It
was arranged that a gentleman named Roach should return
thanks for the press, but the priests insisted on • Mr. Lucas
being heard in reply to the toast. Now, Mr. Lucas was the
editor of the Tablet, which, he hesitated not to say, was
filled. with most disgraceful libels. He hoped' the House
would support the motion.
Mr. MONSELL would pass by the speech of the Hon. Gen-
tleman with but a single remark respecting. his allusion to
the Rev. Mr. Meehan, He (Mr. SIonsell) would pledge him-
self that the words quoted by the lion. Gentleman were never
used by the Rev. Mr: Meehan.
Mr. NEW DEGATE, amid loud cries of " Order," said
lie would establish the accuracy of the statement he had
made.:
Sir. MONSELL was certain the words were never used.
He was surprised that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secre-
tary for the Home, Department should, considering his high
position, have ratified by his statement the abusive harangue
made against one-third of her Majesty's sobjeots by the Hon.
Meinber for North Warwickshire.— (Hear, bear, from the
Opposition. benches.) It was quite manifest that the object
of the 'motion was not to inquire into Maynooth, but to
diminish the number of Roman Catholic clergymen. But
what was the conduct of every other country where there
was a minority professing; a creed different from the rest of
the people? •Why, in every instance that minority was
such
an loud
tl'fu
treated with consideration. 'They had schools granted • for
their children, and their clergymen were supported at the
expcnse of the state. Wh did not England, which made
professionsnds given
of v civilea
by and
ors liberty,for r e
ldi
go thejo u
s
earns? WhYe after & m ling away frothe Roman Catholics
of ,Ireland
p
a
not think the Tories
hwu oraspYeo whosa.B;
preseenrable grant of •26,000/. a 3-ear? He did
people now attempt to take
thisfhr iinimderTisthe English
were following the" example of
in that House, thlt three that, name. It had been once stated
the same ,principles whichories of the present day professed
ago. But Mr. Illeaula the. Whigs did a hundred years
was so coustanely, Y'adivnan reply, -remarked that " so-
cietyteit was now where the headeihag in knowledge that the
ago, but -the hegd and the tail were been son.e generations
distance." Neither Pitt, Perceval, were still at an equal
vehemence against the Roman cr Lord Clare, whose
Catholic
religion nobody
could deny, would, if living, sanction the
withdrawal
grant to Maynooth. He ( Mr. Monsell) _and' of the
himself alone—would not oppose the motion
hf
connectedor inquiry,
he '
spoke for
because he believed .that the more .everything
with elaynoothwae investigated and inquired into- le
more
it would be seen that the institution was honestly audfia reTe
conducted, and in accordance. with the intentions of the
founders. Cie had received g letter from the Catholic Arch
bishop of Armagh,
expressive of his opinion that the motion
should not be opposed, because everything connected with
oth - was as public as possible,and
the College of May o
n could fear investigation. Th
ditionnothing done that
h th t h C •
ake on t esu jet, was, a t e ommittee
he would m
t tdth t • • f '
a a majority o the
fair one,
and he rus e
should be a
take care that those peres who Committee,udged the
House would ta „ _ _
pug= should be excluded T.P134 tg