The Sun.
London, England, 1864-06-28 00:00:00

and knowledge we have of the facts of the case, express any
opinion whatever upon that most important decision at
which it appears bar Majesty's Government have arrived,
viz., in the present state of affairs to remain perfectly pas-
sive. At the commencement :of this session I ventured to
express as strongly as I possibly could the infinite danger
in even the possibility of a war with Germany—that power
with which we have been for so many years associated—
our natural ally, which is or has been, unless modern ag-
gresaive principles have too far prevailed, the great con-
servative centre counterpoise to the ambition of the East
and the West— (hear, hear)—our natural ally, which has
been connected with us by many ties, with whom a war
would be productive of the most serious and lamentable
consequences, not only to there, but to ourselves. (Hear,
hear.) But, my lords, what I expressed also was this—my
fear that her Majesty's Government, by the course which
they pursued, have placed us in a position in which we
should be either subjected to the lamentable consequences
of such a war, or to the discredit in which we should be
held—in which, I fear, we are held—(hear, hear)—by the
whole of Europe, not for having abstained from war now,
but from having for a long period of years held out to both
contending parties menaces on the one hand and
encouragement on the other—a course altogether inconsis-
tent with that policy which her Majesty's Government now
professes, and very properly professes—an earnest desire and
determination to maintain unbroken the peace of England,
so far as it can be preserved with honour. (Hear, hear.)
That is a question on which serious discussion must take
place—that is a question the decision upon which will solve
whether, in the opinion of Parliament and the country, her
Majesty's Government have maintained inviolate the hon-
our of the country—(hear, hear)—or whether, on the other
hand, their policy has not been such as to expose them to
the charge of a feeble and vacillating opposition—yielding
at every step where encroachment was threatened—always
anticipating that that encroachment would be met with
firm resistance, and whenever encroachment took place
yielding and protesting that no further encroachment
should be allowed to take place, (Hear, hear.) That
is the charge against which her Majesty's Government
will hereafter have to defend themselves. This is a feeling
which is prevalent in the minds of the people of this
country—this is the feeling which has taken deep hold of
Parliament and the country ; and if I wanted any confirma-
tion of the course which her Majesty's Government have
pursued, and of the course they may be expected to pursue,
I should find it in the concluding portion of the noose earrs
speech, in which, after elaborately discussing all the disad-
vantage and danger of going to war, all the injuries we might
sustain, the loss of commerce, all the consequences which
might arise to a country like England, including even the
contingency of the war leading to a rupture, at some distant
day, with the Northern States of Ames ica—(a laugh)—the
noble earl, to my utter astonishment, concluded by saying,
that while nothing on earth would induce him to go to war
while we should hold ourselves aloof, because our interests
are so vitally concerned, because our commerce is so exten-
sive,because our relations are so various, because our treaties
are so numerous, that England must keep the:peace, and we
appeal to the country to give us credit for maintaining it in
a state of peace and of internal prosperity and wealth—but
the noble earl said, we reserve to ourselves, if further steps
should be taken, the perfect right of altering our course, and
sacrificing all those considerations on which he laid so much
stress, and of entering on that war that he so justly and
seriously deprecated, and of altogether departing from the
principles on which he acted for the last two years. (Hear.)
That is exactly what the noble earl and the Government
have been saying for two years. First of all, Germany was
to take into serious consideration the danger of incurring all
the responsibilities of federal execution in Holstein. Then
Denmark was recommended—as this is only a federal exe-
cution, we advise you to submit to it; but if the Germans
should go beyond Holstein, if they should cross the Eider,
if they should only enter Sleswig, if the Diet turn
federal execution into an international question, then the
question will be altogether altered—then her Majesty's go-
vernment may see the necessity of departing from the course
they have hitherto laid down, and in certain contingencies
afford material assistance to you. Again, Sleswig is occu-
pied. We are assured that Sleswig is only taken as a mate-
rial guarantee for the fulfilment of other engagements.
"Oh, if Sleswig is only taken for fulfilling other engage-
ments," says the noble lord, " that alters the question ; but
if the occupation is to be a permanent one, that is a thing
which her Majesty's Government cannot tolerate for a
single moment." (Laughter.) Well, Sleswig is perma-
nently occupied. But, says the noble lord, you must never
think of passing into Jutland. (Laughter.) Well, into Jut-
land walk the troops, for strategical reasons, it is alleged.
This the noble earl does not presume to justify; but he says
it is not a sufficient reason for inducing her Majesty's Go-
vernment to depart from their course. Well, my lords, may
I ask what is the contingency which is to override all the
considerations which the noble earl has laid before us ? I
think Parliament is bound to have some answer given to
this question. We will not go to war, says the noble earl,
but we may see reason to alter our course. I think the
neble earl went so far as to say that it Copenhagen was
bombarded and blockaded, then possibly, to prevent its
capture—possibly -- (laughter)—her Majesty's Government
might consider that the contingency had arisen which
would induce the Government to depart from their resolu-
tion. But short of the capture of Copenhagen, will the noble
lord tell us how far he will consent to be d riven before he
departs from his prudent resolution—for I do not deny that
it is prudent if it can be maintained with honour. (dear.)
I hope I may be pardoned for having gone so far as this—
to point out the question to which it will be the duty of her
Majesty's Government hereafter to give a distinct answer,
upon which I hope Parliament will insist not only in having
a distinct answer, but in passing a distinct judgment.
(Hear,) But for the present I confess I should be very
sorry that this discussion should take place now
—perhaps I have gone almost beyond my own intention,
perhaps I have gone beyond what might be desirable—
(hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches)—in the tempta-
tion to follow the noble earl for the purpose of pointing out
not what we are to discuss now, but what we are to discuss
hereafter. For the present I earnestly hope that neither with
regard to the past nor the more important future, will your
lordships be led upon a partial statement, which is all that
is before us, to enter upon an unprofitable discussion, or to
pledge yourselves individually or collectively to any line, to
pass any confirmation of the past, or to assent or dissent
from the course which has been pursued, (Cheers.)
Earl GRAN VILLE said—l think there should be a clear
understanding as to the course intended to be pursued, and
that the house should adopt the course recommended by the
noble earl at the beginning, and which he repeated at the end
of his speech, that we should not this evening go into a de-
bate on this great subject without having the necessary
papers in our hands. The noble earl, however, did not adopt
the course he himself suggested, but touched upon all the
points which he considered to be most vulnerable in regard
to the policy of the Government. The noble earl made
statements with regard to the Conference, and used argu-
ments which were applicable to any Conference whatever,
called together to establish peace between aweak and a strong
nation. (Cheers.) We may go on on both sides using decla-
matory statements and arguments without any result except
to create popular prejudice, which cannot affect the reason of
the country. (Cheers.) The noble earl went on to put into
the mouth of my noble friend statements which he never
used in the course of the negotiations. (Laughter.) Why
should the noble earl put to us this alternative—either to
declare to Europe and the world that, whether our interests
or honour were concerned, we would not go to war, or pledge
ourselves to what may be a convenient demand on the part
of a member of the Opposition, but what it would be
unjustifiable in those who represented the people in this
house to exact—every possible contingency, without know-
ing the accompanying circumstances, which should induce
us to go to war? (Hear, hear.) The noble earl said he did
not wish to enter into a discussion. If the house is of a
different opinion we are ready to debate the whole question
now; buc I hope it will not be discussed in a piecemeal way.
(Cheers.)
After a:few words from Lord BROUGTIAM, which were in-
audible in consequence of the noise created by peers leaving
he house, the subject dropped.
Their lordships adjourned at a quarter to eight.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—Last Evening,
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills were read a third time and passed :
The Belfast Central Railway, and the Kilkenny Junction
Railway.

OPEN SPACES FOR PUBLIC RECREATION, &c.
Sir J. SHELLEY presented petitions from different
parts of the metropolis, praying that the space already
occupied for the enjoyment and recreation of the commu-
ni'y should not be infringed by the ground of the same
being let for building or other purposes. (Hoar, hear,)

THE ACCIDENT AT EGIIAM.
Sir R. BULKELEY asked the President of the Board
of Trade whether his attention had been drawn to the evi-
dence given at the inquest on the sufferers by the late rail-
way accident at Egham, by Mr. Robert A. Scott, traffic
manager of the South Western Railway, in which ho says
" Ordinarily, I think, there would not be the slightest
danger in starting them (the trains) at an interval of five
minutes, allowing the first train to make a first stoppage at a
distance of eight miles. It is quite an ordinary working
of the trains. Some lines allow only three minutes :" also
to the evidence of Thomas Gibbard, office-porter at Egham,
whose duty was to note the arrival and departure of the
trains, and who stated " That the Royal train (containing
their Royal Highnesses the Prince and Princess
of Wales) passed through Egham in the morning
at 12'51, and that Lee passed through at 12..17
Whether the President of the Board of Trade would in-
form the house on what lines trains were started at intervals
of three minutes only : whether starting trains on the same
line at intervals of three minutes was done with the know-
ledge and sanction of the Board of Trade : and, whether he
considered the safety of their Royal Highnesses was suffi-
ciently protected in allowing a heavy passenger train to
precede them by four minutes only ?
Mr. M. GIBSON explained that the Board of Trade
had no power in the matter.
THE CONFERENCE,
APPEARANCE OF THE 110 USE.

From an early hour both the floor of the house and the
galleries were crowded to excess, and the proceedings