The Sun.
London, England, 1852-02-11 00:00:00

INIPERIAL PA P.LIA MEN T

HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 10.

Their Lordships met at Five o'clock. L-ird CAMPBELL
presided on the Woolsack.
PETITION.

Lord CAMPBELL presenteda petition from Cork,
against the p.lyment of ministers' money.
BANKRUPTCY.

On the motion of Lord CAMPBELL, the Secretary of
Bankrupts'-office Abolition Bill was read a second time.

MUNICIYAL CORPORATIONS.

On the motion of Lord GRAN WORTH, the Municipal
Corporations Acts Amendments Bill was read a second
time.

LEGISLATION IN THE HOUSE.

Lord LYNDHURST made some observations on the
subject of legislation in the House. in continuation of
those he made yesterday, and moved the first reading
of a Bill for enabling the House of Lords to take up
measures, without commencing them anew, which were
sent down from the other House, bat were not passed in
consequence of the late period of the session.
The Earl of DERBY hoped that the Bill, coming as
it did from such a high authority as his Noble and
Learned Friend, would receive more favourable considera-
tion in the House of Commons than it did last session.
Lord CAMPBELL did not intend to oppose the first
reading of the Bill, hut he cautioned the House against
supposing that the measure was free from difficulty.
He was not disposed to concur entirely in the propriety
of originating Bids in the House of Lords, because he
thought the practice would give rise to a very mischie-
vous doctrine if carried to too great an extent.
Lord BEAUMONT protested against the principle
laid down by the Secretary for the Colonies, that all
measures of importance should essentially originate
in the House of Commons. Ho was himself a great
Liberal, but not such a Democrat as to sanction such
a proposition. It was of
great advantage to the
country that legislation should on many subjects
originate in this House, in consequence of their
Lordships being
better acquainted with them than
the representatives below. He inquired of the Noble
Earl (Earl Grey) whether it was the intention of the
Government to introduce any measures of great public
importance before Easter?

_
Eirl GREY protested against the accuracy of the
Noble Lord's version of what he said yesterday. What
he then stated, and was now prepared to repeat, was,
that from his experience of the progress of Parliamen-
tary business, he considered that a variety,
better and the great
majority of subjects, were more likely to-be
legis-
lated upon, in the first instance in the other House
of Parliament then in that. But though he t-ntertained
that opinion, he believed there were measures of a
particular class, such for example as those proposed
with regard to legal reform, which could be origi-
nated with greater advantage in the House of Lords.
In answer to the Noble Lord's question, he said he was
not a.vare that any other important measures beyond
those given notice of by the Lord Chancellor
would be brought into that House betore Easter.
Lord LANSDOWNE thought it was immaterial
whether Government measures were introduced first
into this, or the House of Commons, but he reprobated
the assertion that the House of Lords was simply to be
considered as a House of revision.
After some further consideration, the Bill was read a
first time.

COUNTY COURTS.
Lord BROUGHAM having intimated his intention
before long of bringing in the County Courts Extension
Bill, which had passed both Houses last session,
Lord CRANWORTH desired to know whether it
would be the Bill as introduced by his Noble and
Learned Friend, or as passed by the House of Com-
mons? For the difference was rather important, seeing
that the Bill originally consisted of 15 clauses, of which
13 had been struck out, and of the remaining two ono
had the word " not" inserted, which of course totally
altered its meaning—
(A laugh)—and 17 new clauses
were introduced.—(Laughter.)
Lord BROUGHAM said it was true the House of
Commons had made alterations in the form of the Bill,
but had adopted its principle and object (which was the
attaching to the courts an equitable jurisdiction, or at
all events enabling the judges to act as Masters in Char.-
eery), and the House had only altered the mode of car-
rying out the principle of the measure.—(A laugh.)
The) chief provision inserted by the Commons. and which
had been omitted by their Lordships, was the clause in
favour of which he entertained a strong opinion, not-
withstanding it had been disapproved of by their Lord.
ships, enabling barristers to practise in the County
Courts without the intervention of attorneys, a provision
which it was of importance to recollect would merely re-
peal an enactment comparatively modern, and which
had altered the ancient practice and original right and

privilege of the bar.
NEW ZEALAND.
I❑ reply to a question from the Duke of NEW-
CASTLE,
Earl GREY stated that the New Zealand Bill would
be introduced into the House of Commons as soon as the
state of business there would give a reasonable prospect
of its proceeding. The Bill was prepared, but various points
in it were not finally settled, because he had reason to
believe from the last dispatches received, that tho Go-
vernment would soon be in possession of additional in-
formation which would have a considerable bearing
upon the question. It was, however, not his intenti,in
to wait until that information was received, if an oppor-
tunity presented itself previously of proceeding with the
Bill in the other House.
OUTRAGES IN IRELAND.

Lord RODEN described the dreadful outrages
which had been committed in Monaghan, Ar-
megb, and Down, not only at night but in
open day, upon the peaceably-disposed of her Majesty's
subjects, and inquired whether it was the intention of
the Government to propose any measures to arrest the
wide-spread evil, the common law having been found
to be insufficient?
Lord LANSDOWNE said the Government were fully
alive to the importance of the duty imposed upon them
to repress these outrages, and they had for that purpose
increased the constabulary, and adopted other measures
which had been recommended by the local magistrates.
It Was with sorrow he was compelled to add, that in
some instances the law had failed, but he was not dispesd
to say that extraordinary measures ought to be adopted
until all the means of repression be the hands of the Go-
vernment had been tried. Information had been re-
ceived within the last few days from parties concerned
the Government would yet be attained.
in the outrages and others which led to the hope that
theThoebjgatroqiu. is of LONDONDERRY had been, during
last year, for a considerable time in Ireland, and he re-
gretted to say thus in the northern districts, where for-
merly the population was industrious and obedient, there
had been some lamentable instances of insubordination
and murder. Much of that, he feared, was owing to the
agitation that had been going on with regard to the
question of what was called tenant right. In the north
of Ireland there had been a nucleus formed of these
murder associations; but a period had now arrived when
theyown case,
feeling. It WaS the tenant cry that had disturbed the
imaginations of the people, and he could refer to his
attached tenantry in Ireland, and the associations that
had been formed with reference to that subject had taken
must
e, furlook he ie hadto the
general expression of popular
until lately the most orderly and
very much the character of that Ribbon association or
organimation, for the purpose of compelling the landlords
to reduce their rents. There was, certainly, a diminished
feeling of respect for their landlords on the part of fed
feeling So great was the intimidation of some parts
of Ireland that agents who performed their duty were
not able to insure their lives.
The Marquis of WESTMEA.TH recommended the
Government to reflect that that outburst of the Ribbon
system was one that had been going on for years, and
was not a sudden outbreak, while the remedy was only
calculated to act temporarily. When the Government
was about to prepare a measure, they should consider
that the Ribbon conspiracy involved the great bulk of
the population against their wishes and their choice, and
therefore it was necessary that very stringent measures
should be adopted. lie would observe that in the pre-
sent condition of Ireland, the district in which the dis-
turbances took place was saddled with the expense of
the additional police force; but these offences were gene-
rally perpetrated by strangers, and the proposition of
the Government was consequently an additional infliction
upon these people. It was a question with him whether
that portion of the Act ought not to be repealed. The
Noble Marquis had suggested that the landlords should
co-operate with the Government in endeavouring to re-
store tranquillity.
It ought to be distinctly understood
lest the idea should go abroad that the Noble Marquis
was reading a lecture to the landlords, that these parties
were made to suffer for carrying out the must ordinary
provisions of the low in cases where for years and years
no rent bad been paid. Ile hoped the Noble Marquis's
object in ihat respect would not be misunderstood.
The Marquis of LANSDUWNE said the view he
wished to convey was, that the landlords should co.
operate with the Government by taking care that the
instigators of these proceedings should not derive, nor
appear to derive, any benefit from it; that they should
have no pretence for saying that the reduction of rent
would be accomplished by the measures of outrage to
which they resorted.
The Earl of RODEN regretted the Government was
not able to announce any measure for the enforcement
of the law in Ireland. He should be happy to find that
the Noble Marquis was right, and that he himself was
wrong. Unless the Government took some measures to
uproot that conspiracy they would do no good. lie re-
juiced at the explanation that had just been elicited from
the Noble Marquis, otherwise a false impression might
go abroad. He trusted also that the landlords would
use every exertion to restore confidence to the people;
and he trusted above all that they would not not he in-
timidated, and he wished his voice would reach all of
them, but that they would remain at their posts and in
the discharge of their duty, even at the risk of their
lives.—(ilear, hear.) He trusted that whatever means
might be suggested would be effectu il; but he should
prefer postponing any further observations until he saw
how things went on in Ireland. He freely confessei
from what he had heard and saw, he feared that
would
ds
would grow worse, and that the Government wt
and
hereafter regret that they did not take more promp
efficient measures. ns would bo
The Earl of DYSART hoped some mea
devised to to these tenant-league meetings.
put a stop
The conversation then dropped, and their Lordships
adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 10.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at five minutes to Four.
PRIVATE BILLS.
The following Bills were read a second time, and
ordered to be committed :--
Accidental Death Insurance and Railway Assurance Com.
panies Amalgamation.
Bradford Piece Halls.
Bristol and Exeter Railway (Yeovil Brazoll)
BlYth and Tyne Italivray.