The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-25 00:00:00

Xbition

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(THIS EVENING.)

HOUSE OF LORDS:

The Loan CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool,
*tack at Fire o'clock.

THE MILITIA BILL.
The Maropis of BREADALBANE asked the Noble
Marl at the head of the Government whether it was his
intention to proceed with the Militia Bill in this House
without laying before their Lordships the opinions of
the professional authoritfes on the subject. He con-
sidered it to be a subject on which the House could not
legislate without having before it the opinions of the
military and naval authorities.
The Earl of DERBY said it was undoubtedly the in-
tention of her Majesty's Government to proceed with
the Bill without taking any farther steps to inquire into
the present state of the defences of the country, con-
sidering that they had already sufficient information on
the subject.
Lord BEAUMONT presented a petition from nume-
rous Lords of Manors against the Copyhold Enfran-
chisement Bill, and praying to be heard by counsel at
the bar against it.
_ _ .

On the motion of Lord NIIIITO the Burghs (Scot
land) Bill passed through Committee after a short die
aussion.

(LEFT SITTING.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPZIZER took the Chair at Twelve o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Lords' amendments to the Accidental Death In-
surance and Railway Assurance Companies Amalgams.
Lion Bill were considered and agreed to.
The Stockton and Hartlepool and Clarence Railway,
and Hartlepool West Harbour and Dock Companies, and
the Limerick Improvement Market Bills were read a
third time and passed.
The following Bills were considered and agreed to:—
Asthall and Buckland Road.
Oxford,Worcester, andWolver,hampton Railway (No. 1. )
The Presbyterian Ministers Widows' and Orphans'
Fund Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be
committed.

PETITIONS.
Several petitions were presented, praying for the re-
peal of the attorneys certificate duty.
Sir JOHN YOUNG presented a petition from Scar-
borough against the Maynooth grant.
Mr. KEOGH presented two petitions against the
Militia Bill.
Mr. SPOONER presented several petitions from
Warwickshire against the laynooth grant.
Mr. NE WDEGATE presented a similar petition from
the Metropolitan Protestant Association.
31A YNOOTH COLLEGE ADJOURNED DE-
BATE.
On the order of the day for the resumption of the ad-
journed debate,
Mr. Sergeant MURPHY rose for the purpose of op-
posing the motion of the Hon. Member for North War-
wickshire, but it must not be supposed that he was
opposed to inquiry, for he was of opinion that the result
of the most stringent inquiry would redound to the credit
of the Maynooth College.—(Hear.) The conclusion of
such inquiry, he believed, would satisfy every impartial
person that Maynooth College was an institution which
had answered the purpose for which it was intended,
and in which the soundest moral doctrines and the
strictest loyalty were taught.—(Hear, hear.) Why,
then, he might be asked, do you oppose the motion?—
(Hear, hear.) He would tell them. The inquiry was
proposed in a mean spirit of retaliation upon the Roman
Catholic body, and it was not brought forward in good
faith.—(Hear, hear.) At first the motion was
absolutely against the grant to Maynooth, and so the
notice of motion remained on the votes down to
the end of February, when an additional notice of mo-
tion for an inquiry was placed upon the paper, and the
previous notice was still allowed to remain standiug.—
(Hear, hear.) But shortly after this period her Ma-
jesty's present advisers came into office, and as, no douot,
the original motion was discovered to be a difficulty in
their way, the notice of motion for the absolute discon-
tinuance of the grant to Maynooth was expunged from
the votes.—(Hear, hear.) So far, then, for the
first. Now for the second. What necessity
was there for it? He insisted that there was
none, because some few years ago a commission was ap-
pointed by the Crown to examine into the doctrines
taught in Maynootb, and that investigation ended, as all
others would do, in establishing not only the soundness,
but the validity and scrupulous morality of the princi-
ples taught and inculcated in the minds of the students
at Maynooth.—(Hear, hear.) All the charges which
had previously been made against the college were
thoroughly refuted, and the insinuation that altramon•
Lane views were entertained by its professors
was denied in the report prepared by the
Commissioners.—(Hear, hear.) Where, then, would be
the benefit of instituting a second inquiry ? If the mo-
tion was intended to put the House in possession of more
information upon the subject he could assure the House
that no more information could be obtained than the re-
port contained, and all, therefore, that they should do, if
that was the object of the motion, was to order the re-
port to be reprinted.—(Hear, hear.) But, atimittins, that
another inquiry was necessary, the inquiry could ho' had
without any motion of the sort, for the Lord-
Lieutenant not only poesessed the power of appointing
an annual visitation, but also, if he so thought fit, to re-
new the Commission, which could sift the subject far
more efficiently- than a Committee of this llouee.—(Hear,
hear.) The visitation had taken place every year since
the existence of the grant, end if any of these abuses did
exist in the college which had been charged against it,
they would long sae have been brought so light.—(Hear,
hear.) H 9 complained of the spirit and manner in
wbicn this motion was made. A Commission was
sitting and examining into the abuses of the English
Universities, but in the appointment of that Commission
there had been no desire to prejudge ,the question,
as was manifested in this instance.—(Hear.) How
could the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire, as a
strong and conscientious Protestant, conduct an impartial
inquiry into the doctrines and religious principles
taught in Maynooth? But setting that objection aside,
could this inquiry be proposed in good faith, when it
was clear that they had almost attained the end of a
moribund Parliament?—(Hear, hear.) Appoint the
Committee, and what could it do? Why, nothing, but
simply meet once and adjourn, and then the dissolution
would suddenly bring their labours to a close.—(Hear.)
Permit him, however, to ask the question, what grounds
-had been urged in favour of the inquiry? None at all.
Every argument which had been brought forward was not
in favour of inquiry, but against the grant, because the
Roman Catholic. religion was the ruling principle of the
college.—(Hear, hear.) It should be remembered that
the object of the Legislature in assisting the college was
to promote the domestic religion of the people of Ire-
land, and he was prepared to prove that the college
authorities had in no way departed from the original
Purposes of the institution.—(Hear, hear.) He con-
tended that Maynooth had nothing to do with the ultra-
'Montane teaching now prevalent in Ireland. Did they
'l3l,Pose that if Sir Robert Peel, when he proposed to
increase the grant to Maynooth had found that the
teaching
described to
at the college, was such as it was
of janmrY_to be, he would not have asked a commission
pe,fwas sitanad been guided by the result? Sir Robert
effect any reev'ein approaching reform, but when be did
and r, it was always of the most searching
comprehensive character; yet, with all his caution,he
had never seen
a
stem
of
educationuything to condemn or complain of in
the sy
pursued at Maynooth. The cur-
riculum at Maanoote extended over eight years, and that
period elapsed from the tine the young man entered
until he went forth to the world
Now the permanent grant
was made
an ordained priest.
not come into operation until made in 1845, but it did
d since the benefita ee 0'1646, so that six years had
elapse
h• Therefore, hee grant had been enjoyed
at Maynoot • would undertake
single Roman Catholi to say
tbat not a
the grant a priest, educated at
Maynooth since • /nada had participated
public demonstration in Ireland
in any
o say that such • Was it a logi-
cal conclusion, then, t
h was the
education pursued at MaYnoot and such the e
svyi
is tem of
arising from it, thett_an honulwasiri wee b 1 effects
bo a so utely
necessary? He than Vat
if it was u" to make
the inquiry whether, Po-yea
system of d„„--, before
the Committee that the from the e aaattaa had
never been altered and was free objea,,ou
the 0 " a that
had been urged, those who supportedral• lietaber
reared to uphold the
for Warwickshire would be I) Ireland who
was
grant? When insurrection
it that stood between the people and bloodshed eat the
Roman Catholic priests? He peeswith a positive denial
the assertion that the education at alaynooth encouraged
immorality. and shook the allegiance of those under
its influence. One of the most illogical reasons for
doing away with the grant, was advanced by the Home
Secretary, who said the College of Maynooth was
once poor, but was now comparatively rich,
But after improving the condition of the'professors, and
making them almost affluent, were they to reduce them
to a state of poverty again? The Home Secretary had
also stated that the college was intended for domestic
purposes, and that the funds voted by Parliament, in-
stead of being employed for the education of priests at
home, were used for the education of foreign priests ;
but if that Right Hon. Gentlemen had instituted the
most meagre inquiry he would have ascertained there
was no foundation whatever for thataissertion, which Was
so often repeated by the great champions of Protes•
aatism. When famine visited Ireland then there
was a fusion between the Roman Catholics and Pro-
testants, who forgot all their religious differences in
their anxiety to; minister to the wants of the people,
and now the Hon. Member for Warwickshire sought to
separate and deetroy that happy union by a motion
of this nature. It was said there was a conspiracy at
Maynooth, but he treated the, present movement as
Part of a conspiracy in high places in this country
traynst Catholicity—as a conspiracy en the part of the
ll°ar
alty of Oxford for the purpose of retaliqtion
gnat that earnest inquiry which had -
by Protestantsto arrive
evinced
ious truth. The
Protestant fe,i•
low a GoverenT4 abroad in the country would not al-
to Ireland. Rornnte,however well disposed to do justice
had, therefore, only
one
Members in that House
They na resource, and that was self-de-
pendence.should attach themselves
to no party,
and keep aloof ttom
all Party
conflicts,
the fitting moment. arrived, form ,hselvee and then, when
pact array and teach the Government
into com-
and the House
that the undeniable rights and privileges
Catholics were net to be tasePered withe of the Roman
Mr. NAPIER said that the present with impunity.
been brought forward by an independent motioniem, having
House, it was for the Government to e„atudeerr ofw thelat I

course they would take on the subject. Before the pre-
sent Government had taken office, the proposal was in
the shape of an absolute repeal of the grant. To that,
of course the Government could not, consistent with
a due discharge of their duty, asset, nor
could he himself, whatever his individual con-
viction on the subject might be, give his con-
sent to such a course; but after the accession of the
Government to office, the Hon. Mover of this motion,
knowing that the Government would not consent to a
repeal of the grant, had altered his motion to
a request for a Committee of Inquiry. To that
motion he considered the Government were bound
to consent. Such an inquiry—to see whether
the grant were carried out to the full benefit
of those for whom the grant was first established—could
not but be of use. In the first place it was necessary to
see what were the intentions and the purpose of that
legislation by which this grant was established. After
tracing at some length the progress of legislation with
regard to the Roman Catholic religion the Learned
Gentleman proceeded to show that Maynooth
was not established as a! religious endowment,
but as an educational institution, to provide
an education for those who, but for the ex-
pense, and their not being able to be under the Roman
Catholic discipline, might at that time have repaired to
Trinity College, Dablin. That was the object with
which Maynooth was founded, and it was not intended
then as a state establishment, but merely receiving,
state aid. As they received a state grant, he con-
tended it was the duty of Parliament to ascertain
whether the grant was applied to the proper purposes.
It was under those circumstances that the inquiry which
had been already alluded took place. Originally May-
nooth was not regarded as a seminary for priests bat for
persons of the Roman Catholic religion, and it was
under that denomination that it had come under the
inquiry of the Commissioners in 1824; and as it
was still, he thought, an educational establish-
ment, it was still liable to an inquiry. Now
that the annual grant no longer existed that power of
inquiry could no longer be exercised, and there was
therefore need of a special inquiry. The power of visi-
tation was of no use to obtain the truth on the subject
of education at Maynooth, and nothing but a Committee
could satisfactorily investigate these important matters.
If the Roman Catholics of Ireland had followed
the advice of their best friends—if the Roman
Catholic priesthood had refrained from mingling in
politics and public affairs, the cry for the inquiry would
never have been heard, and no dissatisfaction have been
raised at the nature of the doctrines taught there. It
was the sense of the want of success of the policy of 1845
that had been the cause of the feelings against
Maynooth. No man would be more rejoiced than
himself if the inquiry showed that the object of
the trusts had been carried out faithfully and sin-
cerely ; but he contended that against the teaching
of nitramontane doctrines it behoved every man, be
his creed what it might, to lift up his voice, being, as
they were, doctrines which trampled upon the laws of
the country, and sought to dispense with the sovereignty
of the Queen. The patrons of Maynooth College how-
ever, were the Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church in
Ireland, and these bishops had openly professed their ad-
herence to ultra- Montane doctrines.—(Cries of" No, no.")
He repeated that the conduct of the heads of Maynooth
since 1845 demanded that this inquiry should be had.
Those heads had declared themselves in favour of ultra-
montane principles, and in continuing: the grant they
were under the existing system paying money to a
foreign agent. The grant was originally conceded upon
domestic grounds, but as the matter now stood there was
no domestic clergy, because the Pope of Rome exercised
authority over the bishops, while the bishops con-
trolled the clergy. In point of fact, therefore, the
agents of the Pope enjoyed the administranon of the
Maynooth funds, and looking at the conduct of the
heads of the college since the year 1845, he could
arrive at no other conclusion than that the time had
arrived when an inquiry ought to take place into
the affairs of the college.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Well, then, how was that inquiry to take place? Some
proposed that it should be by commission, and not by
Parliamentary Committee; but he did not agree with
them. The inquiry ought to be a dispassionate and
candid one, and he thought a Parliamentary Com-
mittee was a fit and proper tribunal to engage in the
investigation.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The posi-
tion of the State Church was a very different ques-
tion to the present. At a future day that question
might be fairly discussed, but in the meantime let them
have a Committee to examine into the operation of the
grant made to the opposite Church.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said the latter remark of the last
speaker referred to him, but he begged to state that he
had no desire to see the State Church of Ireland in any
way disturbed.
Mr. FORTESCUE said the speech of the Learned
Attorney-General was an echo of the No-Popery cry
which had been raised cut of doors, and he looked upon
it as the curse of the country. There appeared
to be no end to it in Protestant England
and Protestant Scotland, and it was daily be-
coming apparent that the Catholic Emaneipation Act
was nut carried with the hearty concurrence of the people
of Great Britain. He for one deplored this much, because
it satisfied him that the future was still pregnant with
danger fur Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) This Protestant
country could not long go on treating Roman Catholic
Ireland in this manner, or else the Roman Catholic
people of Ireland would begin to think that they would
be better off without their connexion with England.—
(Hear.) Compared with the revenues enjoyed by the
State Church, this grant was ridiculously insignificant,
and to make it a pre text for reviving the No-Popery
cry in Parliament ,-,,is impolitic as well as unjust.—
(Hear, hear.) With regard to this particular motion,
he contended that there was no necessity for
any inquiry, and he should unhesitatingly give his
decided opposition as a Protestant Irishman to the
proposal of the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire.
Mr. DRUMMOND could not separate the question of
inquiry from the persons who were to conduct it.—
(Hear, hear.) Now in deciding the two questions
it should rot be forgotten that Ireland was a
Roman Catholic country, while the State Church was
originally planted by the force of the bayonet.—(Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Member for North Warwickshire
charged Maynooth with encouraging irreligion and im-
morality, but he contended that a Protestant
was totally incompetent to decide whether the
doctrines taught at Maynooth were proper or note—
(Hear, hear.) They ought not to propose inquiries of
this nature, but to rejoice that there was such a
church amongst us like the Roman Catholic Church,
which stood up for the divine insohu'ion of hie-
rarchy, and the govermental system or principle.--
(Hear, hear.) It was not for him to decide what
were the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church,
but the Roman Catholics would agree with him that the
order of the Jesuits had been denounced as incompatible
with the safety of society.—(Hear, hear.) The Pope
suppressed the order on that account, and yet at
this moreeut the order was predominant in
the Roman Catholic Church. (Hear, hear.)
The recent aggression of Cardinal Wiseman and his
followers was dictated by the Jesuits, and it should not
be forgotten that the firm conviction of this body was
that they ought to have the government of the whole
world in their own hand-.—(Hear, hear.) In
point of fact they declared themselves openly
opposed to the liberty encouraged and protected
under the name of Protestantism, and this it was that
thehadß
irritatedom a
n
Catholic peoplec b
uorfe LIE!!! (1 Tin
edazd
They Scotland
were against
e a -
lons of their civil and religious liberties, and although
their anger might be misdirected, yet at bottom it
was sincere and just.---(Hear.) The Jesuits had com-
menced a crusade against Great Britain, and the people
were to be taught that they owed allegiance to te
Pope before their Sovereign, but he had too much faith
in the honesty and courage of the people to suppose that
this doctrine would ever make progress within these
realms.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. FRESHFIELD then moved the adjournment of
the debate.
Mr. ANSTEY resisted the motion, and declared that
it was another manoeuvre to get rid of the debate alto-
gether.—(No, no.) Why it was proposed to adjourn
the debate sine die,—(No, no.) Yrs, but it was.—(No.)
The SPEAKER said the House must first decide that
the debate should be adjourned before they could fix
the time.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. SPOONER, in spite of the insinuations thrown
out by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman and his fol-
lowers, had no hesitation in saying that he was quite
ready to name the time if the forms of the House would
allow him to do so.—(Hear, bear.) He would adjourn the
debate until six o'clock if those Hon. Gentleman who
bad motions on the paper would give way.—(Hear.)
He had been charged with a want of honesty in making
this motion and altering it to accommodate the views
of the Government; but he denied this in toto.—(Hear,
hear.) He had never altered his specific motion, nor had
he ever been insincere either in proposing it, or in his
desire to bring it to a division.—(Hear, hear.) He
hoped the House would now allow the debate to be
adjourned until after the other orders of the day, and he
had no objection to make a motion to that effect.
The SPEAKER repeated that the House must first
decide that the debate should be adjourned before it could
fix le •nt fora (Hfuetaurr,ehdeaary..)
tele.
r. eeLy
journteeNCOUßT urged the House to fix the ad-
conshide
erienrigAtlCELLOß of the EXCHEQUER said,
thought, it thee present state of public business, he
would be expedideiscussion was to be adjourned, that it
_o_e he
03114 to continue it to day, but on the
wh 1
red it would be better to divide at
the_me
once.—(Cheers.)
Me. REYNOLDS
nersaid he had no objection to
(a
tdbj
eo
there
irwrniestrbhe
several
Members) b at
of to the motion itself; but they
were not prepared to dividetner
who wished to address,
the
hoped,sb u 1 idf tbhee H
instituted,ou
spare Roman Catholics the infliction House on the question.
ulti-
mately decided that an inquirybt
benr
uforNNcoortmhi:VEarevsa-
idk, • eeuitii;
w0n1c12,17
shilvirleetheehrairtmhean
House
why of having the
Efon.
C omm ra itte e.t'hey ought to decide
adjournel'eealw
and untilhetcnmunporeolbimjeientaiorny
sclhuoQusltdilDnsit to-morrow. If it did sit haes
House,oldrrnowot.
ng 111 the country •
There was no feeling 3' m favour of this
in the II
' n being renewed
why the debate should not be
question
himself see that any good could._ result from these de-
de-
hates. If an inquiry into Maynooth were instituted it
bring it to a conclusion
was impossible to_during the
• Be had a motion on the
present session. paper for the
post-horse duty, bat he had no
abolition of the post-h objection
•
the debatebe adjourned until to give way to enable to
this evening.
said he
Lord ROBERT GROSVENOR. was per-
fectlyhis motion for the abolition
of willing to withdraw
providedthe ion
Govern--
of the attorneys' certificate duty, . .
a position for some other
ment would give him as good

day this week.
The gallery was then cleared, but CO division took