The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-18 00:00:00

;here was the power existing to raise the militia in
that country. With regard to the b-,llotti.,d men the
case stood thus: they wz-,re liable by the existing militia
law to serve in Ireland, if wanted; whererls the volun-
teers were not so but came only under the now
system. The Hon. Gentleman would then ste that it
Was necessary to make the volunteers liable to the same
service as the ballotted
Mr. BRIGHT s,id he would not give the GRnmittee
the trouble of dividing.
Mr. M. GIBSON asked if he could have an estimate
of the expense that would ho thrown upon the parish and
county rates by the proceedings tinier the Bill? The
burdens that would be thus thrown upon real property
Would be something extensive.
Mr. WALPOLE was not able to give the estimate.

The clause was then agreed to. -
On clause 16, which provides that where men cannot
be raised by voluntary enlistment her Majesty in Couu-
cil may order the ballot,
Mr. CHARTER'S opposed the clause. He con-
tended that the ballot ought not to be had recourse to
except where there was en extreme necessity for it—a
necessity which in the present case-did not exist. Be.
lieving that the popularity of the measure would be in-
creased by the omission of the principle, he moved that
the words " to be raised by ballot" should be omitted.
Mr. WALPOLE acid the reasons of his Hon. Friend
were very strong fur retaining the clause as it stood.
The first object of the Bill was to have a certain number
of men; the second to raise them wiih as little disturb-
ance of relations of life as possible. It they could
be obt,ined by the voluntary enlistment means proposed,
so much the better; but, as it was primarily necessary to
raise these 80,000 men, the power of the billet could not
be omitted, as a last alternative. The Bill held out in-
ducements to volunteer for the bounty, and,in the failure
of that motive, to volunteer, lest the operation should
compel those who might not otherwise serve. Under
these circumstances, he could nut consent to omit the
compulsory clauses.
Mr. PETO thought the Government would do all hat
was necessary if they tried the volunteer system until
next session. If it did not succeed by that time, he was
of opinion that it would be batter to increase the standing
army.
,He bore testimony to the loyalty of the working
classes, and stated that on the 10th April, 1848, he had
tendered the adhesion of 7,009 men in his own employ-
ment to the Government in the interest of internal order
in the kingdom.
Mr. EWART said it would be better to make an ad-
dition to the regular army than to demoralise the
people. He thought the wisest thing would be to in-
crease the artillery, if an addition to the military force
of the country was deemed fleet ssary. If the Govern-
ment limited the Bill to voluntary enlistment, it would
not be so unpopular as it was certain to become with the
compulsory clauses.
Mr. FOX said, in yielding the compulsory clauses the
Government would give up no real power, as they had
substantially agreed to confine themselves to the volun-
teer system until the next year. By insisting on the re-
tention of those clauses, moreover, they would most ma-
terially damage the volunteer system, while they would
cast apprehension among the working classes in this
country.
Mr. HUDSON had supported the Bill to the present
time, but feeling satisfied that the force necessary would
be raised by volunteering, he did not think it necessary
to arm the Government with the ballot. His consti-
tuents were all against the ballot. He did not see the
necessity for the Bill at all; but though he should not
oppose his own views to the knowledge possessed by the
late and the present Governments, he could not support
the compulsory clauses. He hoped, therefore, that the
Government would not press the ballot.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL ssid the Committee
had agreed that 80,000 men should be raised, and it was
expected that they would be raised by voluntary enlist-
ment; but he asked the Cominittee, would the means to
raise the force in question bo complete if the Govern-
ment had not the power to enforce the vote of the Com-
mittee by the ballot? Hon. Members said over and
over again that there was nothing so detestable to the
country as the ballot; but if voluntary enlistment failed
the ballot would be the only alternative. When, there-
fore, the power to raise these 80,000 men was conceded
the measure would be incomplete if a contingency were
not provided for—namely, that the men could not be
raised by voluntary enlistment.
Mr. CARDWELL said the argument of the Attorney-
General was, that he would have to put the ballot to a
new Parliament in its naked deformity, in case it was
rejected from the Bill. The speech of the Honourable
Gentleman therefore raised the practical question—
should the Queen's subjects, in a time of profound
pease, be submitted to compulsory conscription? For
the last twenty years the militia law had existed in a
state of suspension, the Queen having a power of ap-
Plying the ballot in case of necessity. If the clause
Was affirmed, the principle would be established that
the ballot was necessary in a time of profound peace as
a subsidiary to voluntary,enlistment. The Government,
by the mere agency of the ballot, were going to compel
the professional man and others to pay a tax of 301. in
a time of profound peace to provide a substitute. The
proposition for rejecting the clause was, therefore, not
unnecessary. The votes of the Committee enabled the
Government to raise the militia by voluntary means;
but as no exigency hal been proved, he could not con-
sent to vivo them the compulsory clauses demanded.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said it was impossible the Go-
vernment could have a militia without the compulsory
clauses.
Sir F. BARING did not believe the omission of the
clause would deprive the Government of a single man.
especially as the operation of the ballot would be post-
poned until January 1, 1853. Under the present mi-
litia law, in case of danger, 150,000 men could be raised
by the ballot, at present suspended. He would not vote
for the amendment to get rid of the ballot, but if the
ballot was postponed time would be given to consolidate
the militia law. Another point gained would be an im-
portant one—namely, that the present expensive mode
of raising the militia might be altered. The late Go-
vernment thought the charges should not fall upon the
country rates, but upon the general taxation of the
country. This Bill, however, charged an indefinite suns
on the county rates.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the omission of the compulsory clauses would seriously
affect the chances of obtaining a force by voluntary en-
listment. Men would enlist voluntarily when they
saw the eventuality of the ballot in the distance ;
otherwise they would not. The effect of the ballot on
those districts where volunteers were likely to be ob-
tained was a strong consideration, and ho could assure
the Committee that the chances of voluntary enlistment
would be seriously affected if the compulsory clauses
Were omitted.
Mr. PRICE said that a man who would expect to
get 301. or 401. as a substitute, would not enlist volunta-
r, ily- The retention of the compulsory clauses would,
therefore, prevent voluntary enlistment.
Mr. WAICLEY said there was no force in the state-
ment of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, because the
ballot was foregone for this year. The feeling of young
!lien out of doors was that if they were drawn by the
pallet they would go to gaol rather than serve. He
hoped, therefore, the amendment would be adopted.
,' Mr. GRACE" represented a constituency which the
. pallet would peculiarly affect, and he was also the ems
Plover of thousands of workmen. He could therefore
speak absolutely of their repugnance to it; and he
trusted therefore that the elaw3e would not be perse-
vered in. He believed there was a strong feeling in the
c iuntry egainst the Militia Bill, and he believed, it' more
rdetlenee was really necessary, that the people would
a
leo. have an addition to the standing army. He hoped
Government would therefore consent to abandon the
clause.

Mr. S. HERBERT explained, There were many
reasons why, in his judgment, the possible volunteer
would not have such u routed horror of the ballot as
asserted. Ho feared that the tone of argument used by
seine lion. Gentlemen would have the eff..ct of making
the people believe that Government had not the power
to induce citizens to came forward in defence of the
country in case of need.
Mr. H. BERKELEY said in the city he represented
there was a petition getting up against the ballot. He
was satisfied the people were strongly opposed to the
ballot.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment . it o
Against it
... 127
Majority for the ballot ••.--l7
On our re-admission we found
Mr. MITCHELL stating he wished that every gen-
tleman who supported this Bill could be called upon to
serve in person.
Mr. NV. FOX moved a proviso to the effect that no
person shall be liable to compulsory military service
whose name is not on the registration list as an elector
for some borough, city, or county. He thought there
were many circumstances besides population to be con.
sidered in such a measure as that now before the House.
He considered that property ought to be taken into con-
sideration quite as much us population. He also con-
sidered that the habits and occupations of the people
ought to be taken into account. He claimed for those
who had no representation, no rights of citizenship, ex-
emption from the duties which this B
ill proposed to im-
pose upon them. That large class,
another place, had nothing to do with the was said in
the laws but to
iobey them, and
yet those persons compo sing that class
nad merits and virtues quite equal to other classes in
more favoured positions in our social scheme. The.
working
ence and unr., resented classes, who had the exist-
the dayPtlio provide for by their labour—who
were outlawed, as it were, from the civil and social rights
of the wealther clasiies, ought not to be touched by this
Bill. He warned the Government to be guided by what
had taken place in Ireland when the militia was en-
rolled. On two occasions outrages and outbreaks fol-
lowed close upon the heels of the expiration of those
enrolments. He did not mean for a moment to
assert that there was any indisposition on the part of
the unrepresented dames, in case of threatened invasion,
to come forward and lend their aid to defend their shores.
Such a feeling, he was satisfied, did not exist, for very
recently when danger was surmised the labouring people
were the first to come forward in defence of their
country. If real danger occurred the ballot would not
be needed; the people, as one man, would rise to hurl
back any insult and aggression which might be contem-
plated. The people would, however, naturally feel, if
the Legislature called upon them to servo, that the Le-
gislature ought first to recognise their just claims. He
would only allude to ono circumstance more; that in
this country there was a largo and a growing body
which was conscientiously opposed to military service
altogether. Christianity and history from their earliest
ages preeented traces of individuals who had a rooted
objection on principle to war, and everything that had
reference to war. These parties ought not to have
their wishes and principles entirely disregarded, nor bo
punished, as they would be, on account of their con-
scientious scruploe. There would always be persons
who upheld what were called peace doctrines; those
persona fwatid At mint Avt 0, wry 01450!