The Sun.
London, England, 1863-03-11 00:00:00

conviction of garotting with murderous violence should be
pimished with death. Surely corporal punishment could.
of be toosseYere a punishment for a man who, inthe dark-
ness of the night, sprang out of his hiding place, like a
tiger from his lair, and not only robbed, but brutally ill-
treated his victim. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. baronet
the Secretary of State for the Home Department seemed
opposed to the application of such a punishment to such
offenders.
Sir G. GREY explained that if flogging was made
imperative cases would occur in which it could not be ap-
plied. He preferred that the punishment, if the bill were
agreed to, shoald be optional with the judge,
Mr. AD DE RLEY said where criminals were found to be
in too delicate a state of health to undergo the punishment
of flogging, of coarse it would not be inflicted.
Mr. H.ADFIELD moved that the bill be read a second
time that day six months, on the ground that corporal
punishment would brutalise mankind, and unnecessarily
so, as other and equally effective corrective punishments
could be devised, The other evening a noble lord (Rayn-
ham) unsuccessfully sought to introduce a bill to promote
domestic felicity by flagging
the husband who assaulted his
wife—(laughter)--bur the house very properly rejected his
measure. The punishment of flegging was not much re-
sorted to in tho prisons of the country. The
honourable gentleman read statistics in support of
his assertion, and testify;ng ;hat the practice was gradually
gett in g int o disuefirde On inquiry, he believed that the sys-
tem of tickets of eave, though now so much vilified, would
he found to work well, and be the means of restoring, at
least, 90 in 10) to the .r hr nee and friends, and to ,e future
lie, of lab lir an t respectability. In the case of the silly
boy Oxrottl, who sought, notoriety by firing a pistol at the
Queen, probably a geod horse whipping would have been a
sufficient correction. (Ilear, and laughter.)
Mr. 111 BBERT said as he found, from experience, that
penal service was not a suffieisnt deterrent to the commis-
sion of crime, he should supp rt this bill, considering that
the addition of corporal punishment would be far more
effectual.
Col. NORTH considered that they were far too mealy-
mouthed about a set of ruffians. (Hear, hear.) The expe-
riment of corporal punishment ought to be tried. He men-
tioned the case of a convict named Ward, who had, in all,
been sentenced to 46 years' penal servitude for murderous-
assaults on the warders in prisons in which he had been
confined, and asked if it would not have been far better to
have put up the triangles immediately after the commission
of these offences, and have flogged the scoundrel and any
others who supported him? (Hear, hear.) The fact was
convicts were treated far better than hard-working men ;
indeed their treatment was a scandal throughout the country.
Mr. CLAY hoped the house would not give way to a
panic with respect to garotters. Many marvellous garot-
ting stories he had discovered to be quite untrue. Last
Sunday he dined with three experienced metropolitan police
magistrates, who declared that there was no apparent in-
crease in crimes on the person, styled " garotting." Not
believing that an exceptional state of things existed for
this bill, he should oppose it ; besides, he objected to
flogging a man like a dog. (Hear, hear.)
Sir G. GREY said he should support the amendment,
believing the law was amply sufficient to punish all kiuds
of offenders. They ought to be satisfied that the Consoli-
dation Act passed with great deliberation, two years ago, had
felled in its object before they agreed to retrace their steps.
There was a fashion in crime as well as in suicide, and he
believed that the publicity given to the garrotte attach
made upon an hon. member of the house had led criminals
to adopt a like mode of robbery. He could not, however,
go so far as to say that no exceptional state of things existed
in the course of the past year, but there had been no failure
of the law ; several garotters had been detected and
punished, and were now undergoing penal servitude.
Crimes against the person were not now greater than at
any former period, and therefore it would not be well to
adopt et the present moment a species of
"panic" legisla-
tion. It would not be well, he thought, to encumber the
statute-book with additional acts on the same subject, see-
ing that the criminal acts were only consolidated two years
ago. Moreover, a committee was sitting on the subject of
criminal law which had not yet reported to the house. lii
the case of the villain mentioned by the gallant member
(Col. North) the bill would be inoperative for the offences
committed by him, but he would take upon himself to say
that such a ruffian could not have returned from Bermuda
without having his back well scarred. (Hear, hear.)
The infliction of several whippings in public on the same
criminal would, he considered, constitute a disgrace to the
statute -book. (Hear, hear.) He apprehended, too, that no
judge would be found to sentence a criminal over and over
again to corporal punishment, (Hear, hear.)
Sir S. NORTHCOTE said his hon. friend would not
have brought forward his measure to punish garotters
if the Government had shown a disposition to deal with the
subject. There were no flaws in the bill but what could be
easily amended in committee. Happily garrotting had
greatly subsided, but they could not forget that at one re-
cent session of the Central Criminal Court twenty-seven
persons were indicted for assaults upon the person
and twenty-four convicted. (Hear, hear.) Her Majesty's
subjects deserved the protection which this bill would
afford. (Cheers.)
The house then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment .... , 6B
For the second reading l3l
Majority
Thd bill was then read a second time.
GARDENS IN TOWN PROTECTION BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
LONDON COAL AND MINE DUTIES CON-
TINUANCE EILL.
Mr. COWPER moved the second reading of this bill.
After a few words from Mr. WILLIAMS and Mr.
AYRTON,
Mr. DOULTON gave notice that when this bill was in
committee he should oppose the handing over of the 4d.
coal duty to the Metropolitan Board of Works, though he
should support the other portion of the bill.
The bill was read a second time.
THAMES EMBANKMENT (NORTH SIDE) BILL.
Mr. COWPER moved the second reading of this bill.
Mr. DOULTON called attention to a statement which
he made the other night with respect to the cost of the new
street. He had now the exact figures, and desired to lay
them before the house. The net cost as stated by the en-
gineer of the Government Department was £460,090, but
the estimate of the engineer of the Metropolitan Board of
Woks was £690,000, exhibiting a difference of £230,000.
(Hear, hear.) The engineers had since reviewed their
respective estimates, and the present difference between
them was £120,000.
Mr. AYRTON considered that the bill should be re-
ferred to a committee up stairs.
Mr. CO W PER intimated that this bill would be sub-
mitted to a committee of the whole house, when it could be
discussed clause by clause. There was a little ambiguity
between the estimates of the engineers as to the line the
street would take; hence the original disparity in the esti-
mates. There was no difference between them as to the
value of the property.
Mr. LOCKE eaid the valuers were the proper parties to
furnish the real cost of the property.
Mr. TIT E explained tbat the difference of the estimates
arose out of the cost of improving the approaches to the
new street. The bill would, however, be referred to a select
committee.
The bill was read a second time.
SUPPLY.
The report was brought up and received.
WAYS AND MEANS.
The report was brought up and received.
The bill passed through committee.
SALMON EXPORTATION BILL.
The bill passed through committee.
BLEACHING AND DYEING WORKS ACT
AMEN DMENT BILL.
This bill was recomitted and certain amendments agreed
to, to be read a third time to-morrow.
The house adjourned at 25 minutes to six.