The Sun.
London, England, 1863-07-10 00:00:00

LAY BAPTISM.

Lord BROUGHAM called attention to the subject of the
ceremony of baptism being performed by laymen instead of
clergymen. It was most desirable that any misapprehen-
sion on the question existing in the public mind, as he
(Lord Brougham) believed was the case, should be set aside.
He begged to state that the question had been settled long
ago. Lay baptism, to all intents and purposes, was as good
and as legal as baptism by a clergyman.
PUBLIC WORKS (MANUFACTURING DIS-
TRICTS) BILL.

On the motion for receiving the report of amendments to
this bill,
The Earl of DERBY stated that Yorkshire was alto-
gether excluded from the provisions of the bill; that parts
of Lancashire, 50 miles from the place of distress, was
taxed under it, which was obviously unjust ; and that many
of the districts felt it to be so unjust, that they refused to
take advantage of the rate at all. _

Earl GRANVILLE said he agreed with the noble earl
that the amendment which had been made, by inserting the
word " owners" in one of the clauses, was quite unneces-
sary, and therefore he should have no objections to its
being struck out. He would consider the other objections
taken by the noble earl, and state the determination he
arrived at before the third reading of the bill.

The report was then received.
The report of amendments to the Thames Embankment
(South Side) Bill was brought up and received.
Thn Militia Ballot Suspension and Weimer Vestry bills
passed through committee.
'The Passengers Act Amendment Bill was read a third
time and passed.
The Loan Societies Bill was read a second time.
lONIAN JUDGES.
Lord CHELMSFORD moved an humble address to her
Majesty for copies of any paper in the possession of the
Secretary of State for the Colonies containing any charges
of conduct inconsistent with their judicial office against Sir
George Marcoran and Sir Anastasio Xidian, late judges of
the Supreme Council of Justice in the lonian Islands.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said, if he produced the
papers asked for, Sir H. Storks would not have confidential
communications with his superior without the risk of having
the whole of them produced to Parliament, or being himself
charged with acting in a partial spirit. He (the Duke of
Newcastle) could not let that able governor be treated un-
fairly ; if he took any other course, he would feel himself
degraded. (Hear, hear.) Sir H. Storks deserved the con-
fidence of the house for the manner in which he organised
the hospitals during the Crimean war. (Hear, hear.) The
noble lord had represented him to say, that, though his
box was full of papers on the subject, he declined to pro-
duce any of them. Now, no such words had fallen from
him in the previous debate.

The Marquis of BATH—I heard the noble duke say i
with ray own ears.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE—But perhaps the noble
marquis has not as good a memory as I have, or cannot
take as correct a shorthand of what I said as others then
present who are not members of this house. (Hear, hear.)
What I did say was, that, though the box was half full of
papers, I would not produce those which referred to this
subject. The noble duke concluded by &tying that a dan-
gerous precedent would be set if these papers were produced
and he must throw the responsibility attendant on their
producti n upon the house. He had offered to give them
without the signatures of the parties who had put their
names to the papers, but this offer was declined by the
members of that house who took an interest in this ques-
tion. He would not divide the house, and would not raise
any prejudice against these men, but must leave them to
the judgment of the house when the papers were seen. On
a brmer occasion, when this question was before the house,
f .ere were only four pears present on one side and five on
,he other. He thought the crowded state of the benches
opposite showed the interest which could be introduced into
a question of the kind ; but, however, these judges would
say, " save me from my friends."
The Earl of DERBY had not expected to speak on this
question, as he had been privately informed that the noble
duke would not resist the motion. Not one word of imputa-
tion had been said against Sir H. Storks. (Ironical laughter
from Earl Russell.) He would as the noble earl, if he ob-
jected to any statement of his, to take the ordinary course
of reply. But, for his part, he believed that the noble duke
opposite (Newcastle) and Sir H. Storks had been made the
dupes of parties who held ulterior objects, and that Sir H.
Storks had been misled throughout the proceedings. The
noble duke stated that these judges were liable to be dis-
missed at her Majesty's pleasure; but if the noble duke,
having apparently satisfactorily held the seals of the Colo-
nial-office, should, on coming down to his office in the
morning, see that her Majesty was pleased to dispense with
his services; and, on asking an audience to know in what
what manner he had forfeited the Sovereign's favour, had
been referred to the Prime Minister, and had been told by
the latter that he was long enough in an office of high emo-

lument, and that her Majesty deemed it for the good of the
public service that he should be dismissed ; and that the
head of the Government had placed his hand upon a box
and said, "You have perverted your high office for the pro-
motion of your own interests, and have been guilty, if not
of corruption, at least of discreditable conduct ; this box has
papers in it; I won't say whether it is full or half full—
(laughter)—but if you ask me who made the charges therein
contained, I refuse to tell you, and Parliament will not com-
pel me"—he would feel that he was hardly treated, and yet
this was the course which had been pursued in the present
case. The judges asked who were the informers against
them, or, in the language of the Roman satirist, " Quibus
indices ; quo tests probavit Quisnam delator 2" Now it
was the delator that these men were entitled to know.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said he had authority to
give the names of the persons to whom the word delator
might be supposed to apply,
The Earl of DERBY never understood that any names,
except those that were mixed up with the charges, were
asked for. This was the first time he had heard that Par-
liament was not to inquire into questions in which it
might differ from the Government as to the conduct of
officials. It was not novel in motions of this kind to ask the
assistance of one's friends to support the motion ; and, in-
deed, he had been told that it was not till half-past eleven
last night that the noble duke informed his friends that
they would not be wanted to resist the motion. (Laughter.)
Perhaps the noble duke's colleagues did not feel so strongly
as himself on the impolicy of the production of these papers.
(Hear, hear.) Either the noble duke, in producing these
papers when he did not think it conducive to the public
service to do so, was abandoning his duty, or the Govern-
ment was too weak at this period of the session to carry in
Parliament what they wanted. (Hear, hear.) He hoped the
day would never come when those who wished to apply to
this house to protect them from the attacks of petty tyranny
in any part of the territory which was under her Majesty's
Government would apply in vain. (Hear, hear.)
Earl RUSSELL, at some length, showed that the motion
conveyed an imputation against Sir Henry Storks, and said
he listened to the noble Earl's (Derby) speeches with as
much courtesy as the noble earl listened to his. (Laughter.)
After a few words from Earls GREY and G-RANVILLE.
The motion was assented to.
The house then adjourned.