The Sun.
London, England, 1852-04-23 00:00:00

madly with reference to the effect of the policy which
ho recommends
_upon the revenue of the country.
That is the only consideration which cm influence Lao
at the present moment, and it is oulv with re-
ference to the effect of his resolutions, if carrier?, upon
the revenue that I shall venture to make any ohst:Tva-
lions. The united amount of the tt,va items to which I
have last referred is net contemptible; taking the three
together the aggregate is important. I think that the
question of, the effect of the duty upon advertisements is
one which should be gravely considered. Ido not want
at this moment to say more than that it is a question
which her Majesty's Government have taken into their
-
consideration. lam not convinced by the ingenious ob.
servztions of the Right Hon. Gentlertal that Practicallyspaking, were we to deal with the staelo w
.; on nes-
papers, wo should bring about a good and' satisfactory
state of things. But again this subject, I freely admit,
should enter into the consideration of any person re-
sponsible, not only for the finances, but also for the good
government of the country. I distinguish both these
motions•—the second and third—very much from the
first motion an which we aro now called to give a (loci- •

sion—the duty on paper. Tho duty on p—tper is so
large in amount that every one must hesitate before
voting for the surrender of that sourca of revenue;
and I mast warn Honourable Gentlemen not to be
csrried away by tho lively deecriptiou given by the
Right Honourable Gentleman as to the injurious effect
of the excise law upon that particular article, and
they are not to consider that it is the sole instance in
. .

which its injurious effects are discovered.—(Hear,
hear.) If we are to relieve the industry of the country
by the repeal of the excise duty, it becomes a sub-
ject requiring the most impartial and deepest investiga-
tion before we decide which duty is the one reo“ re-
quiring to be repealed.—(Hear, hear.) The possibility
of obtaining relief in this as well as in other instances
depends entirely upon the state of the public finances;
end when in the course of a week I shall feel it my
duty to place before the House the ex-..ct state of the
finances, Tam sure the llouAe will agree—however in-

;erestink.diieussion or debate may boLthat there would

he great inconvenience in coming now to a premature
decision on any subject of this kind.—(dear, hear.) I
would remind the House of the conduct of the House

of late years with regard to the public finances. Erery
los
note
one knows that for a considerable period there has been
a
determinationtax.upon
tt et
rhaerv:u
parthnoae
r ) 0
of
f theit!. t
hHe: countryouseh
by im-
posingoa om
been
-
powt o add e
sto t e revenue
any opinion more freely expressed, or more energetically
maintained than another, it certainly has been that ex-
pressed by the majority of this House, who oppose,
directly or indirectly, any increase of revenue by in-
creased taxation.—(Hear, hear.) They have male war
upon the Customs duties, which materially assisted our
finances; and now there is a very great objtetion to
;he Excise.—(Hear, hear.) Very well; you are taking
away every source of your indirect taxatiou, and I
chink any gentleman who considers the question should
agree with me that when you were so precipitately
cutting off the sources of your indirect taxation, you
ought to have considered whether more relief to the in-
dustry of the country would not be given if you had
either modified or repealed the Excise duties—the
source of your internal taxation—than to have reduced
the Customs duties, the source of your external taxa-
tion.—(Hear, hear.) Remember this, that Honourable
Gentlemen opposite, and particularly the Right Hon.
Gentleman who has brought for eard this motion, never
sanctioned this principle, but, on the contrary; sup.
ported the policy that reduced the Customs duties.—
(Hear, hear.) We have now a great war made against
the Excise; you have attacked successfully one great
source of our indirect taxation, and you are now attack-
ing another source of our indirect taxation.—(Hear,
hear.)' But what is our position in regard to direct
taxation?—(Hear, hear.) We have a Committee sitting
upstairs which is actually making war upon the princi-
pal source of your direct taxation.—(Hear, hear.)
Whatever may be the opinions of the gentlemen who
form that Committee, it is notorious, both from the ex-
pressed opinions of the Honourable Gentleman who
moved and carried the appointment of thst Committee,
and of the most important members upon it, that what-
ever may be their views respecting direct taxation, they
disapprove of the principles on which direct taxation at
present is levied in this country.—(Gear.) They may tall
you that they are favourable to direct taxation, but it
must be direst taxation with exemptions, and free from
every objection which they allege against it. This it our
present state—we have reduced one great source of in-
direct taxation by the repeal of many of the Customs
duties—you are now attacking another source of indi-
rect taxation by motions like the present, affecting our
Excise duties, while the principles upon which direct
taxation can be atisfactorily established are still sub-
jects of controversy, and are even at this moment under
the discussion and investigation ci a Parliamentary
Committee.—(gear, hear.) Now, I usk the House
calmly to consider, is that a satisfactory state of the
finances of the country?—(Hear, hear.) Is it not wise
to pause before you diminish the revenue which you
derive from your indirect taxation, until the House and
the country have arrived at a knowledge of the proper
principles upon which our direct taxation is to be estab-
lished?—(Hear, hear.) Can anything be more injurious,
can anything be more unwise, can anything be more
rash, than to diminish the sources of your indirect tax-
ation, when at the same time you are challenging the
princi ale upon which many sources of your direct tax-
ation is now established?—(Hear.) I put that view
with great confidence for the consideration of the House.
—(Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman has referred
to my having two years ago supported a motion like the
present.—(Hear, hear.) If the House will do me the
honour to refer to the few observations which I made on
that occasion, I am sure it will do me the justice to say
that those bservations vindicated the vote I gave on
that occasion.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not like to refer to
personal considerations, or to introduce them into this,
debate, but as my vote on that occasion has been re-
ferred to, I beg the House will do me the favour to re-

fer to the circumstances under which I gave that vote.—
(Hear, hear.) The House was informed from the Throne
that a great productive interest in the c)untry was Buf-
fering—an, interest which I and others represented in
this House.—(Hear, hear.) We thought there should
be such a remission of taxation as would relieve thr.,
suffering of that particular interest; but the Minister of
that day, in the possession of a surplus, said he would
neither apply any portion of that surplus to the relief of
that interest—or, on the other hand, to the diminution
of the public debt, which, by a consequent diminution of
general taxation, would be a source of general relief.—
(Hear, hear.) But, on the contrary, would apply the
surplus to purposes I did not approve of, and in a
manner which I thought was unjust and impolitic—
(Hear, hear)—and all I meant in the vote which I gave
on the motion of the Right Honourable Gentleman and
in the discussion that took place was this—that if there

was to be a remission of taxation which would neither
relieve the particular interest announced from the
Throne to be suffering norlrelieve the general interest by
diminishing the general taxation of the country by re-
ducing the debt, then I preferred the motion of the
Right Honourable Gentleman to the policy of the Go-
vernment.—(Hear, hear.) I have infinitely preferred to
promote the general interests of the country by the re-
mission of the duty on paper, or by the repeal of the
duty on advertisements, or by the abolition of the news-
paper stamps, than to endeavour to do so by the means
which were then recommended by her Majesty's Go-
vernment.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not seo that a position
more fair could be taken by any Member of this House
—(Hear, hear)—and from the recollection of which I
confess I experience no regret.—(Haar, hear.) I can-
not enter into the interesting details with which the
Right Honourable Gentleman has again favoured us as
he did two years ago. I am not here to dispute his
facts, or to challenge his conclusions; but I cannot
permit myself, in the present state of affeirs, to view
the matter, in connexion with the social condition of
the country, which the Right Honourable Gentleman
has dwelt upon, or the political consequences that he
foresees; -I take a more• interested vier: of the subject,
and a more limited and narrow-minded one—one
confined merely to the effect of the motion of the Right
Hon. Gentleman upon the present state of our revenue.
—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman has brought
forward a motion which would reduce the revenue by a
sum now approaching to nearly 1,500,000/.—(Hear,
hear):—because all the items to which be has referred
are on the increase.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not of course
pretend to give the accurate figures, but I wish to ob-
serve that the Minister of Finance may look to an in-
crease of the revenue received under the three heads to
which the Right Hon. Gentleman's motion has reference.
h-(llear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman has asked
the House to assent to a motion of very great import-
ance; in a week it will be my duty to place before the
House the exact state of the finances of the country; and
I think lam not asking too much when I call upon the
House to permit me to place before them the first finan-
cial statement which I shall have the honour to submit
for their consideration, and which I shall submit to them
i.e a fear days, without the burden and incumbrancohof
the House assenting to a vote such Es that whioh t 3
Right Hen. Gentleman has brought forward.—(Hear.
I do not think that it is an unreasonable propos.iltliosan;-;
(dear, hoar.) I cannot think that the 11003 ~,,,,,
Rightog
Ht i 000 n,. circumstances,
resent
limiting my consideration of this rootion.inl e
Thep.
upon
instance merely .and strictly to its financiahieti 6
occasion
the revenue of the country—offering on ?.
under the
no opinion on those wider questions
to winch,
doubt he was
circumstances in which he spoke, no
se—hut desir-
ingtifiedin calling the attention of the H
on next Fri-
to place before the House of Commons,
which I must
embarrassment • •
and
day, without any of the isrnwitir thoiftsht,fe.eeli
e I position, I fe-1 it
disguised statement of our financial
of the Right llon.
my duty, Sir, to oppose the 1030
Gentleman.—(hear, hear.)
the subject would be taken
Mr. WAKLILY hoped that
Hon Gentleman
into consideration by the Right
and scared afterhe
experience from a vote like the present, a clear un-
had made his financial statement,to
debate
could
.thought
that under the circumstances hae. .
_ir be pro-
longed with advantage to any o 1 (.iI , , !seer.)He
livable Gentleman tee Mee-fcer for
hoped the Right llou' the proposal .the Right
and assent to the e, '
Honourable Gentlemen, an(
_.
„,
tournment
ea- fortnieht or k
of the debate until that o s _n o amo other
had heard the tint:a:lntl stateasent,
period after they , ,ed to move
P o.‘,)n of the Hon.
Manchester would agree to Ot
II ar hear.) lie 1321;6 that the debate
(- s •
should be adtoorned.
and must say ts - - tu, a e
Member La. Finsbury,
teith great attention and with much satisf :ction to the
nd that aleaczt insuperable tliffi
Hon. Uentlems i -
spteeh of the Bight , . ,3.—Jl2:Lr, hear.)
to
This was not merely ."e considered as a dear-cid but
as an educational questica.7(Hear, hear.) He had sat
en a Committee to inquire into the state of education in
Mr. COBDEN rose to second the 1 c
and ho 1?
culties were presented to the educaAon of the people
'clear, hear.)
by theinselves--( Is was his his wish to
to tee removal of
contribute those difficulties by the
al of the texas with
repeal which they proposed to deal,
because they were taxes that affened the education of
the country,

t the people.—(Hear, hear.) He was struck with a fact
which had been mentioned on the subject by a gentleman
who took great pains on this itthject—fir. John Cassell
I --who had published a great number of valuali:e works
I for the labouring cle.ssee. He had placed in Lis hand a
statement. of tho.,e publications with the arecunt of taxa-
tion imposed upon them by the legLiation of that House,
and he told them that i; weighed upon bis efforts to
educate the working classea to the extent of 4,0001. a
year.—(Hear.) When the House pretended that it wished
to educate the people, and alleged that it had appointed
a• Select Cemtaittee to consider hove they could best
administer the public funds for the education of the
people, if they retained a law that would impose restric-
tions nom th,l; se;aeaaevion t.hey woehl piece theee-
elves in the peih het oi lupocriee; before the werhl.—
(Hear, hear.) Ho could not convince himself that to re-
move the newspaper atemp would impair the reveuue.
The newspaper stamp yielded 350,000/., and if they took
off the stamp, and dealt with newspapers Like everything
else going through post, they might receive, if not the
entire, et least a large portion of that sum as postage.—
' (Hear, hear.) Every stamp put upon a newspaper was
a stamp ulna modern history, in which they were all
interested.—(bear, hear.) The stamp on the newspaper
was the greatest obstacle to the progress of intelligence
in this country, because it kept the newspaper almost
entirely from the great mass of the people.—(Hear,
hear.) It would be of the greatest advantage to their
rural population to be enabled to inform themselves on
questions of labour, of wages, and of employment; also
with respect to the subject of emigration, the price of
land in the colonies, and in foreign countries, and the
cost of passage to Australia and to Canada.—(Hear,
hear.) Every person must admit that, if newspapers
containing such information should find their way to
villages and small hamlets, it would be of the greatest
advantage by awakening curiosity on the part of the
population, and stimulating them to go where they
would get a better reward for their labour.—;(Hear.)
That would tend to diminish the rates which now prme
upon the rural districts, by stimulating the agriculturel
population to go to other quarters where they would
better their circumstance; but at proscat the egricul-
tural mind, so far as the peasantry was concerned, was
as much a blank on those questions as in the times of
their Saxon forefathers.—(Hear.) . A great number of
the persons who were lost in the Amazon had relatives
living in Englaod; and he had been informed that ono
of the great difficulties of the philanthropists who had
formed themselves into an association for the relief of
the relatives of those who were lost, was to find out the
friends of tho parties, and in some cases they went to
parties who had not previously heard of the calamity by
which their friends had suffered.—(Hear, hear.) The
reason of that was, because the greaterpart of the people
were shut out from hearing the current events of the
day.—(Hear, hear.) He thought this was a question
that affected the education of the people, and ho hoped
from what the Right Honourable Gentleman had said,
that the Government with which he is connected would
. _

deal with it in a satisfactory manner.—(Hear, hear.) If
they carried out the suggestion of his Right Honourable
Friend they could do nothing that would be more calcu-
lated to give them popularity; it would make them more
popular than anything else they could do in their situa:-
tion.—(Hear, hear.) He was inclined to hope for some-
thing on this question from the Government.—(Hear.)
He must bear his testimony to the fact, that in the Com-
mittee last year he was pleased with the conduct of the
Member for the University of Dublin, who is now a
member of the Government.—(Hear, hear.) For his
conduct on this question they felt they were deeply in-
debted to him, and if his spirit animated the Cabinet
with which he is connected, they might hope to see the
question fairly dealt with by the present Government.—
(Hear, hear.) If they did what was necessary, they
would receive it from their hands with as cordial a re-
cognition of its value as from any
other Government.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL wished to make a ro-
mark in reply to an Observation that hadsibeen made in
reference to him, as he conceived it was ca elated to lead
to a misunderstanding of his conduct respecting House-
hold Words.
Mt. M. GIBSON—The Household Narrative.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL--Ho thanked the
Right Hon. Gentleman for setting him right, and he
begged to inform him that the information against the
Household Narrative had been filed by his predecessor in
office. It was insisted that it was a newspaper and liable
to stamp duty, and the matter was discussed in the
Court of Exchequer. The judges differed upon the
question, there being bares to one in favour of the
exemption of the publication in question.—(Hear,
hear.) The late Attorney-General and Solicitor-
General had the subject submitted to them for 'consi-
deration,, and it was also submitted to the leading
counsel of the department of the Stamps and Taxes,
and they were all of opinion that the judgment of Baron
Parke was a more correct judgment than the judgment
of the majority of the Court.—(Hear.) When he (the
Attorney-General) came into office the case was laid
before him and the Solicitor-General, with the opinions
of their predecessors, and they considered the course
that was to be pursued. Without entertaining a very
strong opinion one way or the other, they felt it
was essential that the law should not be left in
the uncertain or unsatisfactory state in which
it was, and that it was desirable to obtain
the judgment of a superior tribunal.—(Hear, hear.)
Under those circumstances they recommended that a
writ of error should be issued, and the opinion of the
Court of Error taken on the question.—(Hear, hear.)
Ott reflection, he could not feel that he had acted other-
wise than with a due regard to the interests of the public,
and with an earnest desire that this important question
should be settled.—(Hear, hear.) In answer to the re-
mark of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that no prosecutions
had been instituted with respect to certain other publi-
cations, he begged to say that he never before had heard
of most of them, and that he had never teen any of
them.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. COWAN hoped that they should not be placed in
a worse position on that day fortnight than they were
nt that moment, and thought it would be satisfactory if
they received some further assurance from the Right
Hon. Gentleman.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—If the
Hon. Gentleman wishes me to tell him what I intend to
say on Friday week, it is really not in my power todo so.
Mr. M. GIBSON.—I was not in the House, but I un-
derstand that the Right Hon. Gentleman said the ad-
vertisement and stamp questions are under the considera-
tion of tho Government, and under the circumstances,
and with that understanding, I cordially agree to the
adj ournment.—(Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I am
sorry there should be any misunderstanding on the part
of the Right Hon. Gentleman with respect to anything
I said. So long as I have the conduct of the House I
should be very much annoyed if any deception had
taken place.--(Hear, hear.) I should not wish the Right
Hon. Gentleman, or any of his friends, to think that the
question is under the consideration of the Government
at all with reference to hi.s motion, or more specifically
than it is the duty of the Government to consider the
taxation of the country on all its branches; in that way
the consideration of those taxes is not omitted.—(Hear.)
No statement has been made by me to lead him to sup-
pose that it is under more particular consideration—
(Hear)—th© proposition for adjournment did not come
from this side.—(Hear.) I proposed no terms. I merely
stated that on to-morrow week I shall wake the financial
statement.—( Hear.)
Mr. HUME hoped the Government would well con-
sider the question, and begged to inform the Right lion.
Gntleman of it fact which, perhaps, he was not aware
of. A deputation, consisting of about fifty or sixtya.in-
dividuals connected with the paper trade, having waited
on Lord John Russell, when he was at the 'leaden: !eau.
Government, his Lordship distinctly stated to
entirely
he rested his objections to their propositionnidvie
financial grounds, and as such only
(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Hume) d
let newspapers be
wouldhewsuoggest that the
newspaper stamp be removed,
put in the same category as letteardsn.dannadt
want
teltso passing;
through through the Post-office, for they
the Government of a penny
of postage.—(Hear, hear.)
It appeared that while 91,000,000 copies of newspapers
were altogether circulated in this country in the year,
the number circulated in the United States amounted
to 422,700,000.
—(Hear). He begged to call attention to
a paper that had been established in Norwich for the
instruction of the neighbouring population. Ile (Mr.
Hume) thought Norfolk was as much benighted as any
county in the kingdom. A weaver. published the paper
to which he had adverted with a fair desire to benetit his
fellow men; but in stepped the tax-office and said ho
should not publish it. He (Mr. Hume) considered that
in an educational, moral, and fiscal point of view, this tax
was injurious to the public, and he was extremely happy
that his Hon. Friend had moved the adjournment of the
debate, because by that course time would be given to
the Government to consider the subject. For his part.
he scarcely knew any means that could be taken bV
which the agricultural community would be more bene-
fitted than by taking off the paper-tax.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MOW ATT regretted that the Hen. Member for
Manchester had adopted the ensgettit n for adjourning
the debate. He thought it would have been better jo;
have gone to a division, as the result would probably
have had the effect of strengthening the hands of the
Government in any wish they might have to put an end
to this injurious tax. But
as it vas he hoped the mo-
tion was for a bond fide adjournment' of the debate to a
specified day.
Mt. EREWEN (amid cries of " Question") sad, in
deference to a resolution passed at a 'nesting of a com-
mittee in Sussex, embodied with the view of procuring
the abolition of the hop duty, to the effect, that as the
new Government had just then come into office it would
ensly be fair towards them that he should postpone his
motion in reference to that que,tion, he heti accordingly'
postponed that motion, not wishing unnecessarily to em-
barrass the Government at the very moment they came
into power.
The debate was then adjourned to Wednesday the
12th May.
The Exchequer-bills (17,742,8001) Bill, as amended,
was considered.
The Linen, &c., Manufactures (Ireland) Bill was read
a third time.
The Loan Soci, ties Bill and the Stock-in-Trade Bili
severally passed through Committee.
The House adj,oirnecl at a Quarter past Eight o'clock
[A

DVEETLSEMENT.]—A Life Guardsman, ozle of
the Heroes of Waterloo, cured of Rheumatism by Holloway's
Ointment and Pills.—Mr. Thomas Branton, landlord of the
Waterloo Tavern, Coatham, Yorkshire, was afflicted for many
months with rheumatism and rheumatic gout. His legs were
dreadfully painful, and disfigured with colours of every hue,
frightful to behold. For ten weeks he was wholly unable to
walk, the treatment he received from several medicall men oo.in
only failing to do him any good, but leaving
.I.l.if,!'svaly% pills
considerably worse condition. At this juncture ti
y all Druggists
and Ointment were resorted to, and by their soble means he has
been restored to health and strength.— Strand,
and at Professor Holloway's EstabliahmSent, 244,
London.
We find- it stated in the
ELECTION EXPENSES.
life of Lord Jeffrey that his—election expenses in two years
of ten thousand pounds.
amounted to the round Run