The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-07 00:00:00

(LEFT SPEAKING.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.:
The SPEAKER took the chair at Twelve o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Lords' amendments to the London (City) Small
Debts Extension Bill and the South Rens Estuary and
Reclamation Bill were considered and agreed to.
The following Bills were read a third time and
passed:—
Birkenhead, Lancashire, and Cheshire Junction Railway
Chester and Holyhead Railway.
Clarkson's Estate.
Commercial Gas Company
and British Gas Light Com-
pany.
Exeter 'Roads.
Midland Great Western Railway of Ireland.
Shrewsbury and Birmingham and Shrewsbury and
Chester Railway Companies Amalgamation.
York abd North Midland Railway '
Asthall and Buckland Road.

The Aberdeen llen►raermcn Incorporation Bill was
read a tecond time and ordered to be committed.
PETITIONS.

Mr. BANKES presented a petition from Dorsetshire
against the Maynooth gra:it,
Mr. LAWRENCE BEYWORTEI presented a num-
ber of petitions from different temperance societies, prey-
ing tbe.House to inquire into the causes and conse-
quences of intemperance.

• - SUPPLY.
On the question that the report of Supply be received,
Mr. BERNAL said he wished to call tho attention of
the Softie to the present distressed state of our West
India colonies. He abstained from calling attention to
this subject before becsuso he hid no desire to obztract
the Progress of public business, hot the distress hr.d
reached such a pitch that he could abstain from doing
so no lOnger. Successive dispensations of Providence
had completely depopulated Jamaica, and the cholera
in one. year with the small-pox in another, b:d
fair t,) entirely deprive the colony of its legitimate sfo..k
of labour. Last year, on his own estate, they lost 120
labourers from cholera, and this year they had been com-
pelled to apply t. el.. withehilcirenand fern ales,while
many cf the older labourer were completely prostrated
by attacir3 of small•p3x. In this state of glints lelec)ur
became exceedingly costly, and op to the 30th of May,
in the rir‘:.sent yen., hit ogent had ex cubed no lass than
1,0001. on farm labour alone.—(Hear, hear.) lle he
ed
the tiovernment would ice the uccessity for bestowing

THE'

immediate attention to the subject, and endeavour, if
possible, to assist in removing the distress, or thu con-
sequences to the colony might be most disastrous.
Sir , JOHN ?ABINGTON said that he was not in
the least aware of the intention of his Hon. Friend to
make the observations he had done upon this painful
and deeply interesting subject, or he would have been
prepared with a greater amount of detail to meet it than
he could possibly be under existing circumstances.--
(Hear.) From the unexpected manner in which his
Hon. Friend had brought this subject forward, he could
of course only meet his Hon. Friend's remarks with a
general answer. He could assure his Hon. Friend and
the House that no one was more painfully alive than he
was to the distressed condition of the West Indian
colonies. Indeed, his Hon. Friend would not fail
to recollect that the subject commanded his attention
long before he came into office; while since he had been
in office he had afforded interviews to delegates from the
Island of Jamaica, and from those gentlemen, as well as
from private sources, he had received sufficient informa-
tion to satisfy him as to the particular causes of the
distress to which his Hon. Friend had adverted.—(Hear,
hear.) . The ravages which had resulted from the
cholera and small-pox were not the result of the legisla-
tive policy of this country, though much of the distress
might in some degree be traced to the operation of the
policy which was adopted by this country in the year
1847.
When he eeme into office ho immedietely di-
rected his attention to the question of considering
-whether, under the peculiar circumstances of the present
session the Government would be justified in addressing
themselves to a reconsideration of that policy.
On the first day that he took his seat
after accepting office it became his duty to explain to
the House. the conclusion which the Government had
arrived at, after a careful consideration of the whole
subject, and it would be remembered that he stated that
under thepeouliar circumstances of the session, and look-
ing to the position of the Government, he felt that they
would not be justified in making the West Indies an
exception to the general role which they had laid
down for their eunduch—(Hear, hear.) Although
an alteration in the sugar duties, either by
checking the descent of the foreign duty, or
lowering the duty on colonial produce, was a subject
which had strongly pressed itself upon the consideration
of the Government, and was a question to which Go-
vernment might address its serious attention. Yet his
Hon. Friends must be aware that that was by no means
the only remedy which could be applied to the distress.
With regard to any want of attention which it might
be supposed he had betrayed in reference to this subject
he hoped that, as far as he was concerned, his Hon.
Friend would bear in mind the overwhelming nature of
the duty which he had to undertake upon coming into
office. There was, for instance, the extraordinary
state of affairs in the Cape of Good Hope,
which demanded the most important watchful-
ness. Then there was again the unprecedented labours
imposed upon the Colonial-office by the sudden disco-
very of gold in Anetralia, while the settlement of the
railway question in North America had engrossed a
good deal of his limo and attention.—(Hear, hear.)
Nevertheless, with all these matters pressing
upon him, he could assure his Honourable Friend
that he had never forgotten the disastrous state of the
West ladle!, and within the last three or four days he
had communicated with one of the senior clerks
in the West India department of the Colo•
nial-office, end had toll him that as soon
as the immediate 'pressure of colonial business
was telexed he wished him to prepare all the necessary
papers for putting him in possession of everything •that
related to the supply of laheur or to•the present state of
the law of labour hi our West Indian colonies, with a
view of ascertaining whether any relief could be
afforded.—(Elear, hem) Bis Hoe. Friend might,
therefore, :est satisfied that whatever was the ultimate
policy of the Government with regard to the sugar
duties, he, as Secretary for the Colonies, would not lose
sight of this deeply intereatiog subject, or to direct his
earnest ettention s, to wteibor ho should be able to
stfird the colonies eny. ultiecate rehief.—(Hear, hear.)
In reply to a question,
Sir J. PAKING TON stated that it was not intended
to take the Lebuan vote until Thursday.
The House then went into Committee of Supply.
-Oa the question that 10,0001. be devoted to defray the
entense of the establishment in New Zealand,
Mr. WILLIAMS protested against the country being
required to provide religious instruction for this colony,
and he hoped the bishop's stipend would not be called
for next veer:
Sir. J. PAKINGTON said it was hoped that alter
next year there would be no grant of that nature at all.
The vote was agreed to.
The next vote was for 9361. for -Heligoland, which
was agreed to.
On the question that 9,4741. be voted for the Falk/and-
Islands,
Mr. WILLIAMS said there were only twenty-six
inhabitants in the island, and the grant ought to be
reduced.
Sic J. PAKINGTON said more than half the grant
was duo to the Admiralty.
The vote was then agreed to, as was also 14,0831.• to
defray the expenses of the Emigration Department of
the Colonial-office.
On the vote of 30,0001. for the capture of slaves,
Mr. STAFFORD. in reply to Sir G. Pechell, observed
that the. Board of Admiralty were determined to keep
the squadron on the coast of Africa in a state of suffi-
cient effectiveness to suppress the slave trade in that
quarter of the world.
Sir G. PECHELL wished to know whether France
and America still co-operated with this country in put-
ting a stop to the treffie in slaves on the coast of Africa?
Mr. STAFFORD said the reports on that subject
were satisfactory.
Captain SCOBELL complained that there had not
been sufficient promotion among those engaged in the
attack upon Lagos.
Admiral STEWART said the promotion of officers in
the !affair of Lagos had occupied the deliberate and
liberal consideration of the late Government. Whatever
were the number of killed and wounded, he would take
upon himself to say that in no other naval action on
record was more liberal promotion given by the
Admiralty.
Mr. STAFFORD confirmed the statement of the
Gallant Admiral. •
Lord J. RUSSELL heard with great pleasure that it
was the intention of the Government to keep up the
slave squadron on the coast of Africa, for he believed, if
it were maintained for a short time longer, the traffic in
slaves would cease altogether.
The vote was then agreed to, as was also a vote of
11,2501. for mixed commissions for adjudication is refe-
rence to captured slaves and slavers.
On the vote of 150,9821. for defraying the expenses of
consular establishments abroad,
Mr. W. WILLIAMS considered that a great reduc-
tion might be made under this head without injury to
the interests or commerce of the country. They might,
for instance, dispense with the consul at St. Peteraburgh,
who received a salary of 7501. a year; for we had besides
that officer in that city, not only an ambassador, hat a
minister and secretary to the legation. He did not
think the consul could have any duty whatever to per-
form which could not be discharged by the other repre-
sentatives of England in St. Peters burgh. The Hon.
Member mentioned other instances in which reductions
might be made.
Lord STANLEY said there was only an increase of
2,0001 under this head, as compared with last year, but
the present Government were only responsible for a
small portion of the present estimates. Ho assured
the Honourable Member that his Noble Friend
at the head of Foreign Affairs would take. this subject
into his serious consideration with the view of econo-
mising the expenses as far as possible.
In reply to Mr. HINDLEY,
Lord STANLEY said ho was not aware of the
existence of any redo that when a vacancy occurred in
tke consular establishment it should be filled up by the
Government at the same salary.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS complained that the expense of
our establishments at the small settlement of Hong-
Kong amounted to 7,399 L, while at Canton, where so
vast a commerce was carried on, the expense did no'
exceed 4,629/.

Lord STANLEY said the discrepancy was nominal
and not real. The Governor of Hong-Kong conducted
all negotiations with the Chinese Government, and had
the general supervision of the consular establishments
in China, and ho was therefore thought entitled to a
larger salary than the consul at Canton.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS did not complain of the Gover-
nor of Hong-Kong's salary, but thought he should per-
form an additional amount of duty.
Admiral STEWART observed, that if: consuls did
not perform their duties to the satisfaction of the com-
mercial part of the community, - the Government
were sure to hear of it. We should never have good
and efficient men to represent us in foreign parts, and to
defend the rights of British merchants, unless they paid
them well. The climate of Hong-Kong was the moat
deadly to the European constitution, not even excepting
the coat s . , .
m
of Aes, and the coat of living there was
elOGt expensive. He considered no money was better
and ;_
obiesstothecocaosunnistraybrtohal in securing efficient, able,
lati'6r:ne:s
tohnetamfeofrlthrther discussion the vote was agreed to.
of 16,8001. for the extraordinary dis-
Mr. ANsTEher Majsty's missions abroad,
aY wished to know, with regard to the
sums paid flor°t°
„m„mbassiesmbassadore chaplains, how it was that
others did not? enjoyed the presence of a chaplain and
Ho should move to
was the principle of the selection?
espouses
the vote by 1,0004 the sum
allowed for the
emplained that chaplains.were only
Lord STANLEynrs of chaplains-
Bakal-Isaias where there was not a auf-
attewhed to those
ficicat number of
of their own. residents to pay for a chaplain
Mr. W. WILLIAMB,Ob. .
cause he
too !ergo.
Mr. ANSTEY did not Zen': the so trbt:ply:l:anti explanation ofb e theing
Noble Lord satisfactory, be
found the facts did
not at all coincide with his statements. He should not,
divide the Committe.
12.
.
further conversation,
that, as it seemed
Lord DUDLEY STUART said
oA
w ef.veer; some
that the expenses of the Tuscan mission were included
in this vote, ho wished to call the attention (Aue Go-
vernment to a letter which ho had just received f
a gentleman at Ilorence, Well Isslowe, raonnid
of great experience. In that letter great
complaint wits matlt, cf the manner in which the
British mission V 7 a 3 conducted there. The mission had
no office iu the town, and any one desiring to see Mr.
Seaslett was obliged to go out to his country house. to do
which he had to take a vehicle and lose half a day.
Lord STANLPY said that he was not
.able to give
any explanation at present, but the matter should be
inquired into. He quite e greed that it was of the utmost
importance that British fubje c t 3 abroad should have
easy and speedy access to Oki peeseeco of the repreresa-
tativel of their country whenever they might hays any
occasion for their services.

SUN, LONDON,

Sir B. HALL wished to mention that he hii nself had
experienced a difficulty of this sort at Turin, on an oc-
casion when ho bad required 60M0 alteration to be made
in his passport.
_

Tee CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that a circular had lately been addressed by the Foreign-
office to British missions abroad, which, he thought,
would entirely prevent any inconvenience being expe-
rienced by British travellers from delay in this particular.
He might also mention that a most distinguished mem-
ber of our diplomacy had just been appointed to the
mission at Florence.

The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 175,3591. for superannuation allow-
ances,

Lord DUNCAN wished to call the attention of the
Government to the fact that in many instances retirin.,
allowances were given to persons who were just in thee
prime of life and perfectly competent to transact the
busiaess of their offices.
Sir B. HALL said that in cases of this sort ho was
informed that the places were filled up by the relatives
of the retiring clerk.

Mr. HAMILTON pointed out the fact that many of
the superannuation allowances were for offices which
had been abolished. He agrt ed that the time of service
might be lengthened, and ho would promise that by next
year, if he held office so long, the whole system should
be looked into.

Lord EBRINGTON thought that in cases where
offices were abolished, the holders of them ought' only to
be superannuated until there was an opportunity of em-
ploying them in some other capacity.
Mr. WILLIAMS knew for a certainty that many
of those who received thugs allowances were far more
able, as far as health and bodily strength went, to per-
form their duties than the great majority of Hon. Mem-
bers who attended regularly in their places. lie also
complained that .the great majority of these gentlemen,
even when in their offices, really did nothing, but were
paid fOr amusing themselves in Idleness.
Mr. HINDLEY suggested that for the future the new
superannuation shoula be voted in a separate estimate,
as many of these allowances had been made a number of
years ago, and - it would be almost a breach of faith to
disturb them.

The vote was then agreed to.
A vote 4,3001. for Polish refugees and distressed
Spaniards was agreed to.

Oa the vote oi-4,469/. for miscellaneous items, formerly
defrayed by the hereditary revenues of the Crown,
Mr. ANSTEY objected to the item of 7001. for
Frerch refugee clergy.
Mr. HAMILTON explained that the allowance was
made not as a religious grant, but simply as a grant to
distressed refugeest

Mr. ANSTEY objected to the item of 891. 94, to be
distributed among the incumbents of the Isle of Man.
It was his intention to oppose any measure that, in fact,
voted public money for religious sects, and this item
seeraed to him to bear that character. Re should cer-
tainly, unless it was clearly explained that this item bad
no connexion with religious opinion, divide elle House
on the question. With regard to the item of 4001. in
aid of the funds of Lempeter College, he was entirely
opposed to it. This cdiego was literally endowed by
the widow's mite, and was openel in 18eS. A grant was
made to the college by George IV., but this not having
been sufficient, the present grant was made by Parliament
oa the condition of its only extending till the asiets and
extenditere should be equal. The accounts of the col-
lege were never' fairly produced, and although the gift
of the college new considerably exceeded 4001., the prin-
cipals of the college, notwithstanding this, came forward
annually, like fraudulent tenure to ask for this grant.
In the form of the certificate which is now brought.
forward requestitg the continuanca of the grant, the
responsibility is dvided among, so many persons, that
no one can be made responsible fortany misstatement in
that certificate regarding the essets and expenditure of
the college. It was curious that- all the certificates not
in use deted, not from Wales, bat from Durham, and,
according to these certificates, the livings attached to the
college had actually decreived fifty per cent. in velue.
That he (Mr. Aestey)iwas unable to betleve. Nothing but
mischief bad reetitted from this grant, it had bad
the effect of fostering ignorance and idleness, and
nothing would be so advantageous for the education of
North Wales as the entire destruction of St. David's
College at Lampeter. He would move that the vote be
diminished by the sum of 1,800/
Mr. MORRIS hoped that the Committee would not be
led away by the specious elcquence of the Learned
Member fer Youghal. The principal of this college bad
taken high henours of the Uciversity of Oxford; and
the character and *Wien of the vice-principal and Bishop
of St. David's entirely precluded any belief in the abuses
which the Hon. Member for Youghal bad enumerated.
Mr. S. DAVIES said that it was impossible that such
abuses as those mentioned could have existed in a college
which had had gentlemen of such worth for its principals. '
The most distinguished members of the Welsh Church
had been pupils at that college, men distinguished alike
fQr their learning and, piety.. With regard to tee principals
of the college having refused to return any accounts
at all, ho (Mr. Davies) did not think that such could be
the ease. The reputation of the college and of the
gentlemen connected with it was a sufficient guarantee
that no fraud could be intended.

Mr. WILLIAMS, as having been born in that county
in which the college existed, felt extremely anxious
about the education of the youth of that county. Every
one must be aware that any public edifice receiving a
grant from the country was amenable for any-
th►ng like falsification of accounts. He should
pretwr the grant to be 1,0001., instead of 4001. With
regard to the statement of the Hon. Member for Youghal,
that no one at that college could preach in the Welsh
language, he would only say that some of the most dis-
tinguished clergymen in Wales were educated at that
establishment.

After a few words from Mr. LOVEDEN,
Mr. W. WILLIAMS considered that if the Church
of Wales had territorial tithe it would be as rich as the
Church of England, and .a® well able to support itself.
He would challenge the Hon. Member to mention any
more upright or conscientious men than the gentlemen
connected with St. Davii's College, Lampeter' even if
he were to begin with the rope himself.—(A laugh).
He should be glad to see the college in a condition not
to require this grant at all.
Mr. HAMILTON suggested that the time had
arrived for reporting progress, and he should move that
the Chairman should do so, if the Hon. Member intended
to divide the Committee.

After a few words from Mr. ANS'EY,
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and the House
rautned.

The report was orclerel to be received to-morrow..
The Scotch Mills for Flax Bill was then read a third
,line.

The other twelve o'clock orders were then disposed
of, and the House rose at Four o'clock.

The SPEAKER resumed the Chair at Six o'cicck.
PETITIONS.

Mr. BROTIIERTON presented several petitions from
Camberwell and other places against the Militia Bill.
Several petitions to the same effect were presented by
other Hon. Membirs.

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY presented a petition from a
law society in the metropolis in favour of the abolition
of masters in Chancery.
Mr. EWART presented a petition from Dumfries-
shire against the grant to Maynooth.
Mr. DUNCOM BE presented a petition from Finsbury
in favour of Parliamentary reform. •
Mr. COBDEN presented a petition from a religious
society in Yorkshire, praying fur an alteration of the
law preventing marriage with a deceased wife's sister.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from the county
of Down, complaioiag of the interference of
the Marquis of Londonderry in the election for that
county, and praying for an inquiry into the
matter which they considered a direct interference With
the privileges of the House and the freedom of elections.
Also, a petition from Maryport, praying that no Member
be allowed to sit in the House who had been concerned
as principal or second in a duel.' .
INSOLVENCY OF THE POOR•LAW COM•