The Sun.
London, England, 1864-06-15 00:00:00

'EitIAL P

HOUSE OP LORDS—Last Evening,

The Lo' ID CHANCELLOR took bis seat on the woolsack at

5 o'clock.

The M irquis of CLANRICARDE pointed out an error
in the re port in one of the morning papers of the remarks
made by' the Earl of Granville, in which he was represented
to have said that Lord Elgin had diverted to India troops
which had been sent to China. The fact was that he acted
upon the instigation of Lord Canning, who had shared with
him the responsibility.

Earl GRANVILLE said, considering that their lord.
ships were tempted to speak in a conversational tone across
the table, and the frequency with which conversation was
carried on under the reporters' gallery, he was not surprised
that his remarks were misunderstood. The noble lord had
correctly represented what he had actually said. Lord Elgin
was on his way to China at the time when the news of the
Indian mutiny met him with the request that the troops in-
tended for China should be sent to India. Lord Elgin took
upon himself the responsibility of complying with the
request.

After a few words from Lord LYVEDEN and Lord STRAT •
TOED DE REDCLIFFE, the subject dropped.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
_ _

The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Shiers Charities—Earl of Egmont's Estate—Kent Coast
Railway—Crystal Palace and South London junction Rail
way—Great Eastern Railway (H ighbeach Branch)—Lon-
don, Chatham, and Dover Railway (Steamboats)—Oswes-
try, Ellesmere, and Whitchurch Railway—South Eastern
Railway (No. I)—South Eastern Railway (No. 2)—Nor-
folk Railway—London, Brighton, and SouthCoastißailwa}
(Ouse Valley Line)—and Royston and Hitchin Railway.
THE QUEEN'S MESSAGE—SIR ROWLAND HILL.
""'Her Majesty's message having been read by the clerk at
the table,
Earl GRANVILLE said he had now to make a similar
proposal to that he made last evening on behalf of one who
entered young upon the services of his country. Sir Row-
land Hill had not become a public servant at so early a
period of his life, but the great benefit that had been
conferred upon the public at large by the adoption
of the penny postage would no doubt induce their lordships
to concur with her Majesty in conferring upon the principal
author of that scheme a mark of public approval. There
was, it was true, some question as to the actual author of
the penny postage scheme, but Sir Rowland Hill was one
of the very foremost of its advozates, and owing to his
energy and talent it had been adopted by the
Government of that day, and bad ever since been
productive of the greatest national benefit. The nutuber of
letters passing through the Post-office compared with that
before the scheme was adopted had increased tenfold, and
the money-order office, while it had been productive of the
greatest advantages to the commercial country at large,
had been a considerable gain to the country. He had no
doubt their lordships would unanimously respond to the
recommendation of her Majesty.
After a few words from Lord BROUGHAM and the Mar- I
quis of CIANRICARDE, the motion was agreed to.

MORTGAGE DEBENTURES BILL.

The report of amendments was brought up.

The Earl of MALMESBURY moved the addition of a
clause to enable trustees of landed property to invest the
trust funds in the debentures of the proposed companies.
Lord REDESDALE opposed the clause.
A division was called for and partly proceeded with, but
The Earl of MALMESBURY, amidst much laughter,
withdrew the clause, and
The report was read.
The Union Assessment Act Amendment Bill, with some
amendments, passed through committee.

The Ecclesiastical Courts and Registries (Ireland) Bill
passed through committee.

The report of the Public Schools Bill was brought up
and read.

The report of the Scottish Episcopal C'ergy Disabilities
Removal Bill was brought up and agreed to.
The Court of Justiciwy (Scotland) Bill was read a third
time and passed.
Their lordships then adjourned,

'HOUSE OF COMMONS--Yesterday.
The SPEAKER took the chair at twelve o'clock.
FACTORIES ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
Mr BRUCE moved the second reading of this bill. He
said that between 17,000 and 18,000 children were em-
ployed in the trades with which it was proposed to deal.
The hon. member for Devonport (Mr Ferrand) had slated
that the bill would affect 10,000 persons, but he thought he
should be able to show the hon. member that that was
a mistake, although no doubt the numbers would be in-
creased by the extensions it was proposed to adopt. He
explained the principle on which the bill would act with re-
gard to the ages at which children might bo employed, and
met many of the objections which had been urged against
Government. He also read lengthened extracts from the
reports of eminent physicians showing the deterioration of
potters and others from overwork, and the nature of the
work in which they were engaged. The seeds of the disease
were sown in the children, whose labour was far too severe.

It had been urged that the Government ought to have pro-
ceeded under the Mines Inspection Act, which prohibited
children under 12 years of age from being employed. That
would be a very good arrangement if they could secure
children, between 8 and 12, being sent to school. (The
right honourable gentleman read returns to show that
it was not the case). Another objection which had been
urged was that under the bill they would not be able
to obtain a sufficient number of children to early on
the work of manufactures ; but it must be re-
membered these men were employers of boys themselves,
and. it was likely that they would not treat there so
humanely as the employers. He had conclusive evidence
that many of the men neglected their work at the
beginning of the week, and, consequently, at the end of
the week they wore obliged to employ boys to make up
their lost time,thus rendering the employment of boys larger
than it would otherwise be. Another argument was that the
trades in which children were employed were so numerous
and detached that it would be impossible to enforce the
law. That argument had been used with regard to the
cotton districts, bat it had not been found to
be of any use. The right hon. gentleman then
explained how the bill would apply to the lucifer match
trade in which children were employed from six in
the morning till ten at night, being the poorest of the
poor and worst educated of any class. From working
in ill ventilated rooms they suffered from most loathsome
disease of the jaws. He also explained the nature of the
percussion cap trade, and other trades to which the bill
would apply.
Mr CRUM•EWING considered that the bill would
remedy many defects in the existing Factory Acts, and
he hailed its introduction with great satisfaction.
Lord INGESTRE said he did not intend to oppose the
second. reading of the bill, but when it was read a se-
cond tins he should move that it be referred to a select
committee. He was so anxious that legislation should
take place that he put his opposition, if he might use such
a tern', in the mildest form. It was only to some portions of
the bill which the right hon, gentleman proposed that he
had any objections at
all. To the half time system he had a
great objection as being inapplicable to the potteries.
Mr. H. GRENFELL agreed with Lord Ingestre that
the Bill should be referred to a select committee.Mr WATKIN, in opposing the bill, said that the reports
on which the measure was founded were not correct, as
they were greatly exaggerated. In support of this state,
went he cited the authority of an eminent medical man
show that in certain distzicts where pottery works
wer:
being carried on scrofulous diseases were not as rife as they
had been represented. His statement was founded Upon
practical knowledge of the condition of the class whose
interests were involved in this bill, but he wished it to be
understood that the manufacturers, whose views he repre-
sented, were disposed to give effect to any legislative
enactment on the subject that was calculated to remedy an
evil.

Mr ADDERLEY objected to the bill; as introducing a
system that from its expense was opposed to the feelings
of the community at large, as leading to a system of Go-
vernment inspection, than which nothing could be mere
unpopular in this country. He contended that the mode
in which it was proposed to deal with the subject was a
slovenly form of legislating.

After some further discussion the bill was read a second
time.

The house then adjourned, but resumed sitting at six
o'clock.

THE INCOME-TAX.

Mr HUBBARD called attention to the operation and
extent of the direct and indirect taxation now levied, with
!special reference to the Income-tax and to the prospect of
its continuance. After some remarks upon the unpopu-
larity of our taxation, owing, he-said, to its want of system
ani of justice, be read a statement of the main heads of the
taxation, indirect and direct, and the produce of each. He
compared the advantages and disadvantages of the two
kinds. Many evident advantages were on the side of in-
direct taxes, but they had some imperfections. On the
other hand, direct taxation had its limits. Assuming that
the Income and Property Tax could not be dispensed with,
this great fiscal engine, he observed, must be managed
ttv.thfully, and ho proceeded to reproduce and discuss the
principles of the scheme he had proposed last session, reply-
ing to the objections offered to it by the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. He pointed the unjust principles kupon which
the existing tax was constructed, and dwelt upon the moral
evils engendered by it, mentioning !samples of its demoral-
izing effects. He was was of opinion that an Income tax
equitably devised would be accepted by the country, and be
concluded by movin:e the fel:owing resolution : —.J. That the
inequalities and injustice attending the operation of the
existing Property and Income Tax disqualify it for being
continuously reirapoFed in its present form as one of the
means of levying the national revenue."

Mr WHALLBY supported the motion, contending that
the necessary effect of the Income-tax was to demoralize the
trade of the country.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed
hat, looking at the state of the house (which had just been
counted), it would appear that it was not desir.)us that the
motion should be adopted, or that it should undergo a de•
tailed discussion. After noticing the discord botwecn the