The Sun.
London, England, 1864-01-30 00:00:00

with which Mr, Gibson conducted the question through
Parliament, what have we now ? We have a gentleman so
eminent as the Speaker of the House of Commons the other
day at a meeting over which he presided, expressing him-
self in terms of very high commendation and admiration
of the penny newspaper press of this country. (Cheers.)
But what did all the people say who opposed us? They
said first of all, "You will steal everything from the
Times," Well, I do not think that anything could by
any possibility make the paper so bad as stealing
everything from the limes. (Cheers and laughter.) The
Globe newspaper, I believe, charges four or five pence,
whilst other papers, quite as good and quite as large, are
selling at a penny. The Globe newspaper declared that
these cheap papers would do nothing but crib paragraphs
and news from the respectable papers without acknowledg-
ment. Why the Globe newspaper itself is made up almost
entirely of scissors-work—(cheersand laughter)—and I have
seen in it, repeatedly, paragraphs which it has copied from
the penny press of the morning without the least acknow-
ledgment. (Cheers.) Now I venture to say that every pro-
phesy of the opponents of a free press so far have failed that,
whether it be in the quality of the writing, or its elevated
and moral tone, or the industry with which facts and news
are collected and offered to the people, the newspapers
which are sold at a penny will bear comparison with any of
their dearer neighbours ; and that there is but one opinion
throughout the whole kingdom, except it be in some par-
ticular man whonever could find out anything himself, and
never could be taught anything—(laughter)—there is but
one opinion as to the inestimable benefit which the freedom
of the Press has conferred upon the people of this country,
(Cheers.) Now is it not very.curious that every one of the
changes which I have mentioned is almost by universal
consent admitted to have been a beneficial change? (Cheers.)
You can hardly find a Tory now—it is a blessed thing that
somehow or other the Tories die off, or they change—
(laughter and cheers)—you can hardly find any of them
ow who will not admit that a great many of these changes
.ave been wise and beneficial changes for the country; and
•at these very men set up to be authorities on such matters.
'hey have told you at every step that you weredestroying the
interests of the country—they have rushed to the poll
R :rantic gladness to support men who would oppose these
!s; and, having been wrong in every single thing for
6. 25 years, at this moment without a blush—with-
oe ,lightest appearance of embarrassment—they will
oom.i eel .‘re your constituencies and ask them to believe
till le the wise men, and that wisdom will die with
tl ire and laughter)—and if there had been no vio-
lent., irit—and these men would have given them-
selves, ii Lac ' were capable of it, some intelligent thought
on th r 3tions, it is not likely that every one of these
chin;; ht have been made at an earlier period, and
that • lic might have possessed for 20 years the ad-
v. reforms which, owing to the obstinacy of their

spin, they have only enjoyed for the last five or ten
es. (Cheers.) Well, I do not know, but I suppose there
.re not many of their class of gentlemen here, or else I
might try to improve the occasion, and to see if I could not
reach, as I believe the preachers say, their intellects and
their consciences. (Laughter.) There are other questions,
now, to which these men might turn their minds if they
liked, unless they have been so long fixed that, like a wea-
ther vane become rusty, they cannot turn at all. (Laughter.)
There is a question that has been discussed of late years, and
will come on again for urgent discussion before long—the
question of Parliamentary reform. (Loud cheers.) It is 30
years and more since the Reform Bill passed. It was not a
gradual, though it was a great bill when it passed ; and to
show you how insufficient it was, I have already men-
tioned that in nine years after it passed, so entirely had the
old governing class recovered from its fall, that it entered
Parliament in 1811 with a majority of 90, and we know
very well that leaving an immense number of small boroughs
that are assailable and manageable, and leaving the county
constituencies as they now are, giving the counties into the
hands of three or half a dozen landed proprietors, and shut-
ting out the great bulk of the people from the franchise
everywhere, it is not to be wondered at that we should find
ourselves nine years after the passing of the Reform Bill in
a minority in the House of Commons, and at this moment
in a position in which nobody seems to know exactly whe-
ther there is a minority or a majority. What has taken
place since 1832 ? Why, nearly all the changes I have
mentioned have taken place, not changes in Birming-
ham alone, but similar changes all over the kingdom
almost. Have not your schools been extended to a great
degree? Have not the habits of frugality and industry of
the people become confirmed ? Is not the country more
peaceful, the law more generally observed ? Are not your
magistrates and all men in authority held in better regard
than they were 30 or 40 years ago ? Do not we all feel that
there is a more just and generous spirit spread among the
people and animating the masses ? And unless we are pre-
pared to say that the English Constitution is not the Con-
stitution by which representative Government is formed,
and that we have no right to share in the administration of
the affairs of our country, thena small, and a powerful, and
a rich class, acting upon a portion of the middle class, di-
vided so that the influence of theirs becomes almost irre-
sistible, must have the government of the country handed
over to them for ever. Unless we are prepared to say this,
we have no right to call ourselves free men, living in a free
country, and therefore we must determine, before long, that
there shall be another substantial measure of Reform.
(Cheers.) The other night I referred shortly to the ques-
tion of emigration from this country. lam told, though I
have not seen it in print, that a newspaper which does not
require to sustain its character to be at all fair to those
whom it judges, has declared that I put myself up as an
advertising agent for the American Government. The ad-
vertising agent, the practical advertising agent for the
American Government, are those who refuse to do jus-
tice to the English people. (Hear.) Why, Mr. Bancroft,
the best historian of his country, has declared that Europe
should never forget that the history of the colonies of
America is the history of the crimes of Europe. (Cheers.)
We know perfectly well how it was that those noble men
who colonised New England, and whose spirit yet lives on
the continent—(cheers)—and is now, I will venture to say,
directing the energies of that Government in the preserva-
tion of the nation, and in the establishment of freedom from
the Pole to the Gulf, quitted there shores. We know
perfectly well that they were driven from this country
by the oppressions of despotic monarchs, and what
shall I say?—a despotic and, in that day, an insolent Church
—(cheers)—and we know that from that time to this there
have landed in the United States hundreds of thousands--
I think three or four millions—of persons who have emi-
grated from the United Kingdom, the largest portion of
them from Ireland. I have said before, and it is well to say
it on every suitable occasion, that such has been the con-
duct of the Government of England to the people of Ireland,
that wherever an Irishman plants his foot on any foreign
land, having quitted his native soil for ever, there he stands
as an enemy of England, that I suspect nothing can recon-
cile to his native country. (Loud cheers.) Well, but if
the government of Ireland by England had been a just
government—only going back as far as the time of the
union, now little more than sixty years ago—all that would
have been wiped away long since, and Irishmen would have
been as loyal and as contented as any class in England. If
they had found it necessary from any cause, much fewer of
them would have found it necessary to transport themselves
to the United States ; and you would have found in the
United States a feeling that they had not been driven by
injustice from their native land, which would have induced
them to say on revisiting these shores—

" Breathes there a man with soul so dead,
Who never to himself has said,
, This is my own, my native land I' "

(Loud cheers.) But now, under the feelings created by a
long course of misgovernment, continued from father to son,
end directed against them in their social, their political, and
utir r "gious feelings, there is scarcely an Irishman in the
" states who is not the victim of any man who chooses
political capital out of his hostility to England.
:Hear, fear.) There can be no just government of Ire-
aad IlLai you abolish the Irish Protestant Church. (Loud
cc—tinued cheering.) There have been no feelings
a the history of the world that have so stirred men's
Ln, so stirred their hate as the feelings connected with
;ious belief; and I say, if there was ever an act at
it and idiotic on the part of the English Govern-
as to continue in Ireland a Church assuming their
al religious profession, but which was a Church
could call within its fold probably more than
tenth of the whole people, and which from that

of sound judgment, of great moderation, and many good
qualities which I believe his political opponents did not
think it advantageous to give him credit for. He spoke
about the war that was then beginning between the French
and the Austrians, and he said that when he was young
there would not have been a statesman in England of any
party who would have hesitated for a single moment to go
into that war on the side of Austria against France, with
the view of preventing the increase of French influence in
Italy ; but he said he hoped, and he thought it was proba-
bly true, that statesmen had grown wiser since that time.
We did not go into the war in Italy. Our Government did
not take sides with Austria, nor yet with France. The
people generally, I think, were rather in favour of France,
because they thought France was in favour of freedom in
Italy. But supposing the country had gone into that war,
it is difficult to conceive that things would have been better
than they are now. Possibly they would have been worse ;
thousands of our countrymen might have found graves on
the continent; great sea fights might have taken place;
the French Treaty would not have existed, and the growing
harmony between the two countries would have been mise-
rably interrupted. (Hear, hear.) I will not go back to
the Russian war. You know the part I took on that ques-
tion. I believe it is owing to the part I took on that occa-
sion that I have the honour of now being your representa-
tive. (Cheers.) How were you dragged or beguiled, or
excited into that war by the statements of two aged Minis-
ters. They could have kept you out of it. I will not
impute to them motives other than perfectly honourable
motives ; but saturated as I say—saturated, mind, with
the doctrines of a bygone time, a time, I hope, never to re-
turn, they fancied that it was the duty of this small island
to take care of a rotten Government, and of a country de-
vastated by the rottenness and corruption of that Govern-
ment, at the extremity of Europe; and the result was that
among the various contending nations at least 400,000 men's
lives were sacrificed, and probably as many millions of trea-
sure ; and instead of settling Europe on a permanent basis
—for they always tell you that they fight for the purpose of
obtaining a permanent peace—you find that Europe has
double the number of armed men, and has doubled the mili-
tary expenditure, (Hear.) I now come to another question,
the dispute between Denmark and Germany. lam one of
those who are not indisposed to sympathise with these who
wear crowns when they ate in troubles and difficulties. We
know that the difficulty which has overtaken the King of
Denmark is not of his own creation. There has been a diffi-
culty many years with regard to the duchies. It has not
been settled. Perhaps now it may be settled ; but I doubt
extremely whether anything that England could do by
sending 25,000 men into Schleswig, and by sending fleets
into the North Sea, into the Baltic, and into the Adriatic,
would tend to the permanent settlement of the question.
Questions of that nature are only permanently settled when
they are brought to a conclusion by those who are deeply
interested in them. We are not deeply interested. I do not
see that we are interested because the Prince of Wales has
married the daughter of the King of Denmark. I think
nothing would be more unfortunate, and that nothing could
be more intolerable, than that whilst the members of the
Royal family of England are not allowed to marry from
English citizenship, that marrying abroad they sbould,
therefore, embroil Englishmen with the quarrels of foreign
countries. I can imagine nothing more likely to make an
Englishman doubt whether Royal alliances can have any
pleasant interest in them than that any such course should
be taken. We see statements in the papers that the Guards
have received certain orders, and that the feet is to
come to some place or other. These, I fancy, are
mostly mere feelers, it may be, or bluster intended to
operate upon Austria and Prussia. I cannot understand the
object of Austria and Prussia, unless it be that they are
afraid of a revolution in Germany, and are therefore apps-.
rently taking the lead in great operations which may save
them from that unpleasant change which they think may be
impending. But if I were speaking to the members of her
Majesty's Government I should remind them of this, that
in 1853-4 there were members of that Government who talked
about peace. Mr. Gladstone, in his speech in Manchester,
and Lord Aberdeen were heartily wishing for peace; so,
doubtless, were the Queen and the Prince ; and yet they
went into war. Governments take steps which they fancy
do not mean war, but they are gradually brought nearer to
the verge, and then, on pretence that they have gone so far
that they cannot retract, cannot honourably retract, they
plunge over into the abyss. On that occasion there were
members of the Cabinet who had not the slightest idea of

going into war. There is a curious custom in the English
Cabinet on which the public ear is not well informed, but
which I will explain. When a Government is formed, you
see a list of 13 members, so-called the Cabinet. They are
summoned to Cabinet meetings under the name of her Ma-
jesty's servants ; but there is an inner Cabinet, and it is
merely composed of the Prime Minister and the Fo-
reign Secretary, and occasionally one other Minister. Lord
Derby was a member of Sir Robert Peel's Cabinet, and yet
he knew nothing whatever of a most important memoran-
dum or understanding which had been drawn up, and an
agreement which had been come to between Sir Robert
Peel, the Duke of Wellington, Lord Aberdeen, and the
Emperor Nicholas of Russia. Lord Derby stated in the
House of Lords that until he became Prime Minister he
had never seen the memorandum or known of its existence.
I have been told that there was an attempt made when Lord
Derby's Government was formed co keep the whole of the
interior Cabinet in the hands of himself and Lord Malmes-
bury, who was the Foreign Minister; but that a certain
other Minister, who knew the responsibility attaching to
his great position, resolved that he would have nothing to
do with the responsibility cf the decisions come to unless he
were made acquainted with all the facts, and with everything
belonging to them ; and therefore the secret Cabin©t of Lord
Derby was composed of three and not of two members, But
take the present Cabinet. I will undertake to say, from what
I know of what has been done on past occasions, that of the
direct foreign negotiations the transactions of foreign affairs
is conducted almost entirely by Lord Palmerston and Lord
Russell, Now don't let tee be supposed to insinuate that
Lord Palmerston—for that would be foolish—has not had a
most lengthened experience in all matters 'connected with
foreign affairs ; and don't let me be understood as saying
that Lord Russell is not as anxious as I am that our foreign
affairs should be transacted with honour, and that the Ca-
binet should do what is best for the interests of the nation.
But there may be membo's of the Cabinet at this moment
who are not aware of the steps which are taken from day to
day, and of the despatches which are written, of the sugges-
tions which are thrown out, and the resolutions partly come
to; which being once arrived at and determined by the
Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary, the other members
of the Cabinet find themselves unable to resist. If there be
any members of the Cabinet who has not that secret know-
ledge, and finds that matters are advancing to a fatal catas-
trophe—the catastrophe of war—let me beseech him, as he
values the peace of his conscience during his lifetime, and
his reputation with his fellowmen, which is of much less
real value—let me beseech him to insist upon knowing every
single thing that is done, and determine that he will not be
made a partner in transactions—it may be in great error, it
may be in great crimes—which he and his country for all

time to come may have occasion to regret. (Cheers.) At
present there is no excitement on the question between Den-
mark and Germany. So far as I can understand I have not
seen a paper written out of London which argues in favour
of war. I do not think the London papers generally, so far
as I have heard, have stimulated the country to violent ac-
_

OWTI

tion. But let us here, let the people everywhere have their
eyes wide open at this moment, and by every means in their
power let them understand that while we are willing to
sympathise with any monarch, or it may be with any State,
under difficulties of any kind, we consider it our duty to
guard the permanent and future interests of the population
of this island ; and show, also, that looking over our past
history for the last 200 years we have come to the fixed
determination that the Power of England shall not be
exerted, the blood of England shall not be spilled, the
wealth erected by the sweat of Englishmen shall not be
squandered, except it be in some great cause in which the
solid and permanent interests of this country are engaged.
I fear you will think I have been preaching you a long
political sermon. I want this to bo a free country—not to
be afraid of anything that's good because they say it's
French, or of something good because they say it's Ameri-
can, or to stand by anything that is clearly evil because
they say it's old. A very eminent writer not long ago said
that England to a large extent was still, as it were, fettered
in the grave clothes of the middle ages. We have a com-
petition to run with other nations, and most closely of all '
with that nation now distracted and in the throes of a great
revolution. But we have within our shores, and within
the limits of these islands, a great and a noble people—
(cheers)—we have within ns the elements of a nation far
greater in the future than anything we have been in
the past, even in the most glorious pages of history. We
can set ourselves free from prejudices, and, as it were, from
the darkness of the past. We can give to our people
education. We can open up to them new sources of in-
dustry, We can reduce the expenditure of our Govern-
ment, We can invite another million or two within the
pale of the Constitution, and, taking them by the hand,
ask counsel of them that we may assist each other in the
wise Government of this great nation. (Cheers.) All
mrsfit
noel:
gougii
ersananrodlwdeui
foundation
ettysfi
000 c aarwnus n d
our
political
iohupeuahsoorttl do,
we
which
and
teneahadtslec
as
hpiamdrl l thatmoral.
p problems
w i
that
whoe
hnaegdtaauvsnsi
edht
is soo ndaiu not
svdt,
itself
rtntttchhoae akeod teuo
ruifnrfr from
slightest
private
coootrnhu
con-
sciences
life, and which we should gather for a nation as for indivi-
duals, from the religion which we profess. Time, persistent
labour, and fidelity to the great principles which we hold
and believe in—(cheers)—this will certainly give as the
victory over existing evils, as similar qualities and similar
conduct have given the victories I have described to you
in the sketch which I have made. And for myself, and I
may add for my hon. colleague, who is not here to-night,
I am sure that every time we come to Birmingham. I say
it most distinctly for myself, I feel afresh how much there
is in the people of this country to respect and to admire.
(Cheers.) I feel that the more any man connected with
public affairs, as I have bean for 20 years, mingles
with those who take an interest in public questions, the
more he feels himself strengthened, not only in his
faith in what is good, but in the power which he. has to co-
operate with those through whom hereafter it to be at.
tained. I can say, too, descending from the political to the
personal, that every time I Lave come to Birmingham I have
had additional reason—if I em to remain in public and par-

tay to this has never been able to convert—l was going to
Jay a aim.* real Catholic to Protestantism, but has made
.o'f ,m not only a belief of the people but a patriotism.
(k_ For every Catholic has not only had the ordinary
reas or adhering to his Church which every man has
who learned the doctrines and the teachings of the Church
from his mother, but he has this further reason, that the
Church which is sought to be imposed upon him is imposed
by another nation, and to him an alien Government ; and
therefore every reverence for God and every feeling of re-
spect for a free man make him resolved that he will never
come within the pale of such a Church as that. (Hear and
cheers) I have but one more question to touch upon—for it
would be wrong to pass it by at this moment—and that is
the question of foreign affairs and the doctrine of non-inter-
vention. Now, the people of England will, nay must, be-
fore long make up their mind on the great question whether
they will receive the doctrine of non-intervention in its in-
tegrity, entirety, and completeness, or whether they will re-
ceive it when convenient, and repudiate it when their pas-
sions are a little stirred. Two eminent Ministers of the pre-
sent Government are men—one of them certainly is a man
who was in office so long ago as some years before 1 was
born. He comes down, then, from a generation that has
almost passed away. Lord Palmerston, the Prime Minister,
is that man, and Lord Russell, although not so old, still goes
back into that earlier time, They are both naturally—l am
not imputing it to them as a wrong, because possibly it was
what they could not help ; but they naturally have been
saturated with the theories and doctrines which prevailed
upon the question of
.intervention in foreign affairs at
the beginning of this century. They may fancy now, in
their old age, that that which was taught them and which
was practised in their youth was right. Now, during the
time of the Italian war, the war which was lately carried on
between the Emperor of the French and the Emperor of
Austria, which resulted in great changes in Italy, I went
one day during that session of Parliament to spend an hour
with Lord Aberdeen. He had been Prime Minister and
Secretary for Foreigu Affairs for many years; ho was a man

THE SUN. LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JANUARY 30, 1864.

liamentary life—to feel grateful for the confidence which
you reposed in me fire or six years ago ; for every time I
come I receive additional proofs of kindness and of confi-
dence ; and I may say more, that I have received numerous
acts of courtesy from those who d.d not feel that they were
able to give me political support. (Cheers.) In looking to
Birmingham, and to my duty to it, I shall take a broader
view than merely to look to those who give me their votes
—I shall look to its whole population, whether rich or poor,
and to its whole industry and interests ; and as far as I am
able to affect them advantageously, hoping for your co-
operation and assistance, you may rely upon my doing
everything that lies in my power, (Tha hon. gentleman
resumed his seat amid loud cheering.)
The proceedings were shortly afterwards brought to a
termination by a vote of thanks to the mayor for presiding.