The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-26 00:00:00

ward by Lord Cottenham, as Chancellor, which pro.
metaled no further than to Committee. Last year two
measures were introduced into the other House on the
subject, and it was the amalgamation of these two mea-
sures
.which formed the basis of the. Bill now before their
Lcrdships. This measure was not so complete as he
could have wished it, but he was ansioua to make as
onward a step. as possible. The object of the Bill was
to enable lords to compel tenants to enfranchise, and
tenants to compel lords, with certain modifications; and
he considered that the manner in which this enabling
was effected would not operate with hardship upon either
lord or tenant.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said it was scarcely pos-
sible to overrate the inconveniences resulting from the
copyhold system, and it was certainly expedient to re-
medy these evils so far as this could be done without
trenching too much on the rights of property. His
Noble and Learned Friend was quite justified in the ob-
jections he had advanced against heriots. He himself
(the Lord Chancellor) was so impressed with them that
upon purchasing a copyhold estate, in order to prevent
his best horse or other favourable chattel from being,
after his death, taken from his representative by the
lord, he had token the estate in the name of a trustee.
—(Great lauehter.) As to the impediment thrown
by the copyhold system in the way of building, it
wag, no Luht, in very many cases a great evil,
but there were instances, such as the precise case given
in illustration by his Noble and Learned Friend, where
it operated advantageously for the public in preventing
the aggregation of houses in otherwise overbuilt locali-
ties. He agreed that it was most desirable to assist in
carrying into exeentien any measure that would lead to
enfranclaieement with all duo speed, and without bearing
hardy;- upon the rights of the parties interested; but,
as to the general inconvenience of this tenure, he denied
generally speaking,
that there was that complication in
copyhold titles that rendered it necessary upon that
ground to pass this Bill. He asserted that copyhold
titles were more simple than freehold titles and less open
to objection; and, as regarded smaller tenements, that
title was preferred, and well it might be; for it had the
benefit of a general register, free from those incon-
veniences that would attach to a register: of lands of
other tenure, inasmuch as it was local, accessible, and
simple, and never could be overloaded with a great
quantity of matter. It was, moreover, the simplest of
ell tenures and for small thee a tenant might transfer
his copyhold tenement. His Noble Friend said there
must, be two deeds, but that was not necessary—
one only was required. There were two documents,
no doubt; but that was no objection, for the party did
not pay more than he would have to pay if the pro-
perty were freehold. As regarded heriota and arbi-
teary fines, he thought they could not too much facilitate
the abolition, of the, one, and the reduction to a fair
standard of the other; and any measure that would
carry into- effect more beneficially the law as it a pre-
sent stood would meet with his strongest support. He
would rather that any hardens which attached to any
property ehmild attach in the tenant's lifetime, so that it
might despised to bia children free from them. Bat, as
regarded the inede pointed out by. this Bill for enfran-
cheseraentehe dish not hesitate to say that in many cases
the expense altogether would be more than the value of
the property enftanehieed. The Bill, moreover, meted
the landlord and tenant, in a state of opposition. The
lord might compel the tenant to accept enfranchisement;
the tenant might compel the lord to grant it; anti the
consequence • would be, that each would be watching
for the peeper moment to take advert*.
of
the other; At the present time enfranchisement
was going on toore rapidly than many of their
Lordships would suppose. In bad times erfrae-
chisemut almost ceased; in good times it went on
rapidly. - Pam eerneasure of this sort, however, the
evils he bad just mentioned were inseparable, but they
would not attach to a general enactment which would
compel enfranchisement ; and certainly, if he had to
choose between the two, he should choose the ,measure
that was altogether cheepuleory. Again; at present the
Lord had the right of property in mines under a copy-
hold, but he could not dig the land to get at those mines.
Now, this Bill provided that the Lordi should retain all
the mines to Which he was entitled; but it did not do
what ought to be clone, namely, while it transferred the
lands freehold to the copyholder, provide for the lord
being able to break the soil and to get at the mines. Ito
did not. however, oppose the Bill, but he rose to state
what difficulties occurred to him upon the subject. It
ought not to pass without fall consideration—(hear,
hear)—and he should propose that it should be referrea
to a Select Committee, as fie was confident that it ought
to be considered clause by clause with great deliberatien,
in order that they might know en what they were legis
Tithe he would venture to say, that having read this
Bill, he should be wholly incapable of saying at teat
moment that the Bill as at present framed could safely
pass. The greet object was to do justice to ail pantie %
He did not. make this suggestion with any view to this
Bill not being passed this session. But, even if that,
were the result,-if the time occupied iu its being deli-
berately considered should prevent it, he should think
that that was in no respect to he compared with hasty
legislation breaking in upon the rights of property.
Lord CAMPBELL had anticipated that before this
session closed this Bill would have become the law of the
land; but the speech of his Noble and Learned Friend
on the• woolsack was fatal to the measure. It was
echoed by the Lord Privy Seal, and he was afraid it was
inwardly approved of by the rest of her Majesty's
Ministers. A Noble Lord had withdrawn a motion of
which ho had given notice that this Bill should be re-
ferred to a Select Committee, and he (Lord Campbell)
therefore was not only grieved, but surprised, at the
course taken by his Noble and Learned Friend, espe-
cially es in the other Home of Parliament this Bill
had had the support of the Government; and the organ
of the Government had undertaken that the support of
the Goverumerit should be given to the measure as it
now stood. If the Bill would produce evil to copy-
holders, then the proper course for his Noble and
Learned Friend to hare taken was to move that it ise
read a second. time that day three months; and he
thought his Nobl© and Learned Friend would have done
better if he had taken that course than by not objecting
to the second reading, but recommendieg that the Bill
should be referred to a Select Committee. He had
thought that this Bill would have been one of tho meet
suree of referm that were to have reflected credit on the
present Government. tie bed most sincerely hoped it
would have been ohe of the topics on which they might
have gene to the country to shoe how beneficent their
adMiLtiatia4i3a WB3 by its leg el iaucece. Their Lord.
ships must recollect that in each manor there was a par-
ticular code oedawa, by which the copyholders of such
manor were governed us to their tenancies. In some the
custom was that the eldest son should succeed to the
retinal in others the custom was that of gavelkind, in
which all the sons succeeded equally; and in some
the castom of borough English prevailed, by which
the youngest son succeeded, to the exclusion of the
eldest. The Noble and Learned Lord on the woolsack
bad pointed out the very great advantage to the copy.
holder from hie being" reaistered and from the registrae
tioh being simple;
but ho (Lord Campbell) trusted that
before whether year passed the Government would esta-
blish another
reform, by establishing blish another claim to the gratitude of the country for
a general registration of
cede. According to the principles of the Noble and
hearted Lord
foro
wasthe idle woolsack,
suppose
this tenureth
ati t
ryasryas
would b
to b
be
perpetuated,
abolished before many generations
t:r
H.
many centuries
merely by voluntary oufranchise
anti should Noble d
giving
voiunggh , a go :farn
Partthev once tos eeniftrainneahiseheaaplel
copyholds. He (Lord Campbell) should be also g 1 d to
such measure, If it were possible, bug he foresaw
b arhave
ships and inconveniences arising therefrom, yilh madde.
him recoil from it: With respect to the present Bill, how-
ever, though it might produce in a few iestances a little
hardship, is would on the other hand afford very great
relief, and in his belief it would prove most beneficiel
both to the lord and to the tenant. The Bill had only
a compuleozy operation in the two cases of descent arid
alienation, and in consequence of that provision it was
his opinion that the measure would not only effect no
evil, but produce much benefit. If afterwards it should
be found drat there existed remnants of copyhold which
it would be disadvantageous to maintain, a general
sweeping measure of a compulsory nature might then be
introduced to deal with them. At present he was not
prepared for a measure so stringent, and he should give
to the second reading of the Bill now before the House
his most cordial support. -
The Duke of. .CLEVELAND confessed that his
opinion had always been that some such measure as
the present was absolutely necessary. The old feudal
system connected with the copyhold tenure ought for
various reasons to be got rid of, as it tended to a
great number of endless disputes, heartburnings, and.
bickerings.. The different customs in different manors
constituted a great evil, and, with respect
to minerals, in two• counties in which he had copyhold
Property—Durham and Staffbrd—the customs differed
mterially. Another serious evil arising out of the copy-
d tenure was that it prevented the making of improve-
ments• He believed that without some compulsory
Powhit wotdd •be
the enfr__ . impoaatble to carry out a measure for
Tree etedensement of copyholds.
po—aireeinhitiLTDlONT said he could not oppose the pro-
because he Vending. the Bill. to a Committee up stairs,
sion of a gist it was in a state requiring the revi-
vernment Committee, Ornmittee, but he trusted that the Go-
the sineere etitemthht.nilY nominate such: a .Committee with-
such a form al —l'. _ of endeavouring to pat the Bill is
sent session.,
.ding,,d let enable it to be passed in the pre-
,' The Duke of iteeta6r, a •
many griCT3l3C9B+ is, tt
9EUCH admitted that there were
big over the present depyhold tenure, but in look-
visions- the smaller eedps"ehenA thought that under its pro-.
hardship than the lor
Tiler was more likely to suffer
the Bill was to refer it torti st)totlly way of dealing with
e,eet Committee though for one would not consent if) he
the pnrpose of defeating tit:" a reference merely for
thought that Bills tending tom limeasure. He certainly
the law of property ought nett° be alterations in
- to Members of Parliament but-. g
rou t f iry
rive -
the Executive
Government.
After a few.worris from Lord pow's,
Lord CBANWORTII expressed
that sending the Bill to a Select Committeepnsione
meant that it should not become law this
tiezaetiictalbly
thought the result would be otherwise he should rejoice
at the Bill going before Committee, tee his
should become 1 ardent
wish was that the measure law in the most
perfect state possible.—(Hear, hear.)
Tho Bill was then read a second time,
The LORD CHANCELLOR moved that the Bill be
sent to a Select Committee—the Committee to be named
on Thursday next. As his Noble and Learned Friend
had expressed some alarm lest the'effect of sending the
measure to a Select Committee would be to Prevent its
passing during the present ecseion, he hoped he week]
give him credit for stating that lie had no such object
—(Hear, hear)—and on tho part of her Majesty's
Government. he-might state that they had no such ob-
ject, hut that they would'go into the Committee with the

determination to give the measure their best attention,
and to render their honest assistance in carrying it into
effect.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord CAMPBELL was, generally speaking, favour-
able to Bills of this nature being sent to a Select Com-
mittee; but, under all the circumstances of the case, to
send the present measure to a Committee would, he
feared, prove a delusion. The state of the session, and
various other considerations, induced him to believe
that the effect wculi be to give the measure its quietus.
The Bill was then ordered to be referred to a Select
Committee.
SCHOOL SITES ACTS EXTENSION BILL.