The Sun.
London, England, 1852-02-20 00:00:00

rnE SUN,

7, 1'64 Tint hive readily a
of tne llilt nit, ~f
Ireland.—(fle4r, hear.) Well, then, Sir, I think it is
kren,rally a Inuit adinitted—that Lord
Ctarecdon, in a time of great danger, great difficulty,
and great pril, has shown ability, 'vigilance, prudence,
and judgm.nt. and all the characteristics which ought to

di.tinguich a Viceroy in a moment of diiiiiulty and
cLiii.z,er.—(Chetrs.) FLA S,wereign readily admitted
that merit, and thought him entitle,i to those distinctions

given by the Crown, of which it was said—
" Trio.3e emblems Cecil did invest,

And gleamed on wise Godolphin's breast."
Well then, Sir, it is attempted—after these services have
been performed, after th se dangers are past—it is at-
tempted to affix a stigma on that character, and mark
withindelible disgrace the man who perforated these
services,—(Cuettre ) Why, we would think it vary
strange if a
ship was in great peril, and the captain by
the exertion of toil, and judgment, and discretion, bad
b.-Ailed the efflrts of the winds and waves, and saved the
ve,sel from the storm, if some one who had not assisted
in that endeavour crept out from the hold—(Tremen-
dous cheering)—and said, " I must inquire into the
means by which the safety of the veer! has been se-
cured. I must see how you have contrived to weather
the gale. and if I find that any one of your sailors who
was employed, either in cutting away the mainmast or
haling out the water, is an unworthy person, I will con,
demo you, and pass unnoticed the great act by which
you have saved the vessel."—(Cheers.) But lam still
further astonished at the quarter from whence this mo-
tion proceeds. I could have imagined that some dema-
gogue who had hoped in the overthrow of existing
institutions in 1848 to have obtained place or plunder,
who had desired to invest himself in the insignia of a
secretary of state of a republic—l could have imagined
him coming back to vent his spite and indignation
against the man who had beffied and overthrown treason
and rebellion.—(Cheers.) But what I do not and what
I cannot.underatand is, that a member of a Conservative

Opposition' after having shared in all the benefits
of Lord Clarendon's wisdom and policy—and it
was to that wisdom and that policy, and the energy
which characterized both, we owe the safety of the

people and the peace of the cnuntry —I say I cannot
understand a member of a Conservative Opposition

coming down here to arraign the man who has COnfeirred
these benefits, and asking the House to agree with him
in condemning the man to whom they ought to be
grateful,—(Cheers.) I am sure that such will not be
the feeling of this Holism. This House has done
nothing—it has no opportunity of doing anything by
which they can show their estimate of the services per-
formed. But they will not give their first expression of
opinion on Lord Clarendon's administration by the se-
vere and unsparing condemnation contained in the terms
of the notice. Never was the Executive stronger than
in the bands of Lord Clarendon.—(Cheers.) Never
was public authority more respected, even by his ene-
mies.—(Cheers.) Never was there a Viceroy carrying
on the duties of that office with more fairness to all par-
ties, with more courtesy to all who came to consult him,
with a more earnest wish to remedy some of the many
grievances under which Ireland labours.—(Cheers.)
But I have now stared what was the nature of the
transactions with regard to this newspaper, the World.
I do not propose to follow the Noble Lord into those
statements of the merits of the various transactions
to which he has alluded. I believe it was with
the motive that he stated that Lord Clarendon
accepted the services of Mr. Bitch when they were
offered. I believe that he accepted them with the
view that they might be of service is maintaining order
when it was so grievously assailed—that he might be
able to administer some antidote to the poison spread-
iug throughout the lend, a poison which might have the
worst effects. Whether Lord Clarendon was right at
any time, even when placed in circumstances of great
danger, or when the danger was not so lowering, to
spend public money on purposes connected with the
press, I do not mean to combat with the Noble Lord.—
(Hear, hear.) It you enter into that question, you
ought to consult persons connected with the Govern-
ment in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) We know very well
that in this country it is not the practice to do what Mr.
Corry Conneilan calls subsidizing the press.—(Hear,
hear.) No Government could receive any advantage
from such a proceeding. But if you want to know what
is the practice in Ireland—if you want to know
f.the po-
licy of that conduct—ask all the chie sretaries who
have been there, and hear their opiniciec ns. Take the
Earl of Derby—(Loud cheers)—and if the Earl of
Derby were to declare that in no circumstances what-
ever were you to give public money for purposes
connected with the press, that he had always care-
fully abstained from it, I would have the greatest
respect and attach very great weight to that opinion.—
(Cheers.) I should likewise wish to hear the opinions
of other chief secretaties, who could tell what has been
the practice, and what were the grounds upon which it
wet tukettled- For my own part, I have never been
either locally or immediately connected with the Go-
vernment ot Ireland, so I cannot express an opinion
upon the point. I do not think it necessary to say more
than that in my belief Lord Clarendon acted with no
wish to benefit himself or to support his own adminis-
tration; he seems to have acted solely with a regard to
the public good; and he also seems to have acted not
niffsrently from those formerly in the government of
Ireland.—(Cheers.) With regard to the further ques-
tion, immediate to this, whether Lord Clarendon should
have given aid to an editor of a paper of so disreput-
able a character as the World, I have only to say that
the Noble Lord in his speech givea full credit to Lord
Clarendon's assertion that he was not aware that such
was the character of the paper. And what do I find?
Whe, that Mr. Birch being imprisoned for libel, many
of the most respectable citizens of Dublin, amongst
others Mr. Roe, had gone with a memorial to the Go-
vernment, asking for his release. This was not the
conduct of persons who believed that this man was of a
disreputable character. With respect to the further
question—whether the Government acted wrong in giving
sums of money, and whether Lord Clarendon should
have paid that 2,0001 upon demand, without going
before a jury—l am of opinion Lord Clarendon erred in
not contesting the payment, and in not refusing the
compromise. I only heard of these transactions lately,
and I have framed my judgment upon them; but I do
not think that an error of that kind, an error of no very
grave importance, not so much to be weighed even
against the weight of a feather, can prevail against
the eminent, the undoubted, and valuable services which
Lord Clarendon has rendered to his country.—(Cheers.)
Well, then, here is a great question before the House.
You have the character of a public man entrusted to
your hands. I am persuaded that you will be of opinion
that it is neither consistent with the dignify of Parlia-
ment nor with the welfare of the country, thated you
should pronounce the condemnation that is pray f.
And for my part, as a colleague of Lord Clarendon—as
terse who has e steemed him, and for many years has
loved him—l am ready to place his character and his
conduct in the hands of the Commons of England, and 1
am assured that he will obtain justice in their decision.
—(Tee Noble Lord resumed his seat amidst loud and
continued cheering.)
Mr. DISRAELI—I wish if it is the intention of no
other Honourable Member to address the House, to apply
myself shortly to the unravelment of the ingenious so-
phistry of the Noble Lerd who has just addressed you.
The argument of the Noble Lord, as I understand him,
is this:—" Put down rebellion, and if you are successful,
never mind the means, you may appeal confidently to
the country for a verdict of acquittal." But is that the
logic supported by Members of the d,fferent parties in
this House?—(Cheers.) Is that reasoning to apply to
other rebellious as well as those in Ireland, which have
been equally unsuccessful, but in respect to which the
Government had recourse to means in which those Hon.
Members did not concur? This is not political mora-
lity; I might say that it was political immorality,•otly
that in this House there is no need to have recourse to
streng terms; it is a course which I am sure this House
will never sanction.—(Cheers.) But the most remark-
able part of the speech of the Noble Lord is the position
in which he places the journalist whose conduct is in
qneseton on this occasion. According to the statement
of i.he Noble Lord there was a great crisis in Ireland at
the period referred to, and such a crisis that the very
existeece of ihe empire was at stake.—(Hear, hear, and
lauenten) The Noble Lord added that so strong was
the inenug ot the House of Commons, and so keen
their sense of d anger, that they agreed almost una-
nineouely to the suspension of the Habeas Corpus
Act in a single die,. It was in consequence of the
patrietic energy of the House of Commons, and other
means, argued the Noble Lord, that Lord Clarendon
because be
"rued Ireland. What were those other means? Mr.
Birch.—(Laughter and cheers.) The Governor of Ire-
"(I brought before the consideration of this House,
lessen
what says the
placed himself in connexion with the editor
of a local
his
iktitrnal, under circumstances calculated to
and authority its that country. But
rebellion was put Nobled
of that ceuntre, pp Lord? The Noble Lord says that
in Ireland by the administrates
11p:tested by the unanimous voice of
the Parliamen't of
d the Noblela.Zg
would have
What has thTathteoredowawsitha
the question?--(Hear, nadn.d
IrelandtSvaeud of their lives!"
Lord, that every honest
plundered, and, it
protect and to prevent this
greatpme ar
ya o abc
be,
andceep,r
se honest people,
that country
World.—(Laughter
to his coun-
cils cheers.)
catastrophe, as well as to
the Lord-Lieutenant of
61% the editor of the. orld.
That Noble Lord, it appears, was the ace.
occasion, for to prevent plunder and to sat lifeoat noliDthide
cootnduct
3 700/ out of his own pocket.—(Cheers, laughtere,' paid
3,i
of " Oh.") I only want to place the question fairly
d
the
,tllatetugthimtaenrdactlrates
" Oh." 1 The
ibsesfu'oe at stake is r e
of the
Governor of Ireland —(Cheers.) There are certain
facts and circumstences the accuracy of which has not
been denied, nor the truth of the Noble Mover who stated
them challenged. Whether these facts and circum-
stances—these "transactions," to use the words of the
• rnotion—" be of a nature to weaken the authority of
the executive, and to rcii-ct discredit on the ad-
' ministration of public affairs" in that country, is the
question the House has to d.cide. Well, are they cal-
culan-d to strengthen the authority of the executive,
or
to /eft et credit on the administration of public affairs in
Ireletel?—(Cheere.) Have we or have we not, in these
transactions, a dark inkling of a system of government
in that country prejudicial to public morality, and dis-
creditable as well es disadventageoue to the administra-
tion of public affairs?—(Ch, re) The Noble Lord,
with singular inconsistency, says that this was the result
of an anomalous state of affairs,produced by rebellion,
sad yet in the same breath he a' eal
the practice
a to .
of
other Chief Secretaries of Irelandpp f
(Cheers)—Seca Caries under a normalor its justification—
rt,e Noble Lord said that Lord Elintstate of things.
1841, approved
of :he caeduct of this journalist; and in
nLord Derby, the
Noble Lord adds, woule answer whether
or not
of Ireland was subsidized—as a practice. Ifthe case
question was a peculiar one—if the Irish Government o

ay.is placed at the time in a peculiar position—then I
agree with th. 4 Noble Lord that there would be
grounds for deducing an inference not unfavourable
to Lord Charenden's conduct on the Occasion under
discussion. But the Noble Lord the First Minister of
the Crown cuts away that ground himself, by stating
that such transactions are ordinary transactions in
Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) The Noble Lord cannot
have the advantage of both positions.—(Cheers.) He
must choose either; and it is because I believe them:to
be ordinary transactions in that country—a conviction
which the Noble Lord has not disproved—that I ask the
calm and dispassionate vote of thin House on such con-
duct—that I ask their opinion as to whether these trans-
actions shall have their approbation, and whether or not
they will perpetuate a system of a nature to weaken the
authority of the Executite, and to reflect discredit on
the administration of public affairs in Ireland.—(Cheers.)
I have now brought back this discussion to the real
point—the point from which it started, after the discur-
sive argument of the Noble Lord. Lord Eliot may have
expressed his satisfaction with Air. Birch in 1842, but
•

that is an additional reason for the House expressing its
own opinion in 1852.—(Hear.) Lord Derby may have
had transactions with the Irish press when he was Chief
Secretary of Ireland; but that is only another reason for
this House expressing an opinion now. Every statement
of the Noble Lord, in fact, destroys his own argument,
and renders it more and more impossible for him to ride
off his case by means of an appeal in justification
to the existence of an extraordinary crisis at the
period in question.—(Cheera.) If this, were, indeed,
a motion brought forward for the purpose of casting
a stigma upon individual character, as the Noble
Lord assumes it to be, I very much doubt if my Noble
Friend the mover, who has introduced so important a
matter in so temperate a manner, and who is himself
proud of being an Irishman.—(Hear, hear.) I very much
doubt, I say, if he would have made any motion of that
na• ure—(flear, hear)—and certain lam that I should
not have been the individual to support it.—(Cheers.)
If this was a transaction arising out of extraordinary
circumstances, produced by the heat of political proceed-
ings, and not of a normal character, then I freely admit
that every generous man would feel, disposed to oast a
veil over it, and to say it has never occurred before, and
probably may never occur again, and therefore it is not
my duty to notice it.—(Cheers.) That very cheer is
the best argument in favour of the motion.—(Cheers and
laughter.) We have it on the confession of the First
Minister of the Crown, however, that this transaction is
part of a system. That every secretary of the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland pursued that system, and this ren-
ders it the more important on my part to ask the House
if they believe that system to be, a pernicious one. It is
not an affair of feeling or taste on the part of the House
of Commons, it is an affair of public duty that we should
examine these remarkable circumstances which the

Noble Lord has referred to, and express an opinion upon
them. Now, Sir, I have nothing to say as to the On,.
duet of Lord Eliot—that Noble Lord has friends in

this House ready, if necessary, to vindicate his conduct.
But the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) has referred
to all other secretaries, and in a marked allusive manner
_ .

he referred to Lord Derby, when he, as Mr. Stanley, was

Secretary for Ireland. Now I remember to have read a
book recently which throws considerable light on the
mode of conducting Irish affairs at that time. I believe
it was the fact that during the Administration of Lord
Anglesea, now a member of the present Government,
when party spirit ranged high in Ireland, when the press
in that country—and no country is more influenced by
the press—was divided between two great sections, the
Orange and the Catholic party, or what we did call the
Catholic party—l believe it was the fact that the Go-
vernment of Lord Anglesea, wishing that the temperate
tones of a wiser policy should be heard by his Irish
countrymen, did attempt, and not unsuccessfully, to es-
tablish a newspaper. Is there any one who will quarrel
with the conduct of Lord Anglesea in this matter?—
(Hear, hear.) Is there any one in a free country like
this, which owes so much of its liberty to a free press—
is there any Honourable Gentleman present who will
say that such conduct was disgraceful? who will not, on
the other hand, maintain that it was bold, wise, and
proper conduct for a Government to attempt to establish
an organ in order to express its opinions faithfully in a
country where the public press was ranged between two
hostile parties?—(Hear, hear.) I say I know nothing
could be more legitimate, proper, and praiseworthy than
for a Government to attempt to infuse a temperate tone
into politics; and I say it was a wise policy for Govern-
ment, amid the exacerbations of party, to attempt to re-
gulate the public mind, and to soften it down to a safer
tone, and to succeed in establishing for itself an addi-
tional amount of influence in support of the Adminis-
tration. I believe this was the case in the Adminis-
tration of the Marquis of Anglesea, and I believe it pro-
duced beneficial fruits. A newspaper was established
by a respectable man, it was written by a not undistin-
guished man, a member of the Irish bar, and it had a
salutary influence on public opinion. If, Sir, I chose to
view the question merely in a party point of view—if I
availed myself of the allusive remark of the First
Minister of the Crown—if I chose to denounce that at-
tempt of Lord Anglesea, instead of meeting it with my
sincere admiration—l might refer to the memoirs of
Lord Cloncurry, in which strange revelations of certain
noblemen are given, and there find a passage which
would not at all have assisted, not what I will call the
argument, but the brilliant explanation of the First
Minister of the Crown. The Administration of Lord
Anglesea was placed under circumstances of great diffi-
culty—it was in great straits—it was anxious to pursue
a truly national policy, and therefore a newspaper was
established, written by honest able men, who en-
joyed the respect of that society of which they
were the ornaments.—(Hear, bear.) But who
were the prime advisers of the Lord Lieutenant of that
time? I am afraid, though it may mortify the Gen-
tleman to say so, that he did not exercise so much in-
fluence over the mind of the Lord Lieutenant as his
talent entitled him to expect. There was a camarilla,
Lord Cloncurry says, in the Castle at Dublin at that
time. Three or four individuals entirely managed the
Lord Lieutenant, but the Chief Secretary was not one
of them. I recollect reading that, amongst these three
or four individuals, the most eminent, the most influen-
tial of all, was George Villiers, now more distinguished
as the Earl of Clarendon.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
When, therefore, that distinguished individual went in
his new name and his new capacity to Dublin, he was
not entirely ignorant of the state of that country; and
when adorned with that surpassing decoration which the
Noble Lord had referred to, he was not entirely unac-
quainted with the Irish press.--(Hear, and laughter.)
The Knight of the Garter condescended even to know
a newspaper editor. Distinguished as this individual
was in position and in ability—decorated as he was
with his worthily won honours. I cannot believe
that the Viceroy was ignorant of the men who pro-
dueed leading articles. I must, however, ex-
press my extreme astonishment at the mode
adopted by that eminent person who, to use
the language of the Noble Lord, and that I
should make no mistake I made a minute of the words
—" At a moment of peril and concern to the Crown and
the British empire, the Viceroy of Ireland should have
sought an antidote." The Noble Lord read one after
another these leading articles, which led to so many
public trials, and so much painful public punishment—
articles which excited many persons to misconduct, and
which produced acknowledged perils to the state. The
Noble Lord wishing to find an antidote, and to encou-
rage some writer who would counteract those seditious
efforts which imperilled the Crown and the empire—the
Noble Lord with all his previous experience and ac-
quaintance with the press, when Mr. Villiers, as
may be learned from Lord Cloncurry, falls into
the trap of—Birch.—(Laughter and cheers.) lam the
last man to depreciate the influence of the press. I
respect and admire the press, for to the press I think
we are indebted for some of the greatest blessings we
enjoy, and I believe it affords the best security for
liberty. But, at the same time, I do not take an
exaggerated view of the power of the press. It
is not clear to me that in either revolution
or rebellion the very best leading article would
save the country.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Nay,
I doubt whether the Noble Lord, in a moment of diffi-
culty and danger, would think that even a leading
article in the Times, written with more than usual
ability, would serve all the purposes he wished to ac-
comptish, and avert all the expected danger. But,
certainly, it the Noble Lord went to the press for help,
he would go to the Times, not to the Satirist.—(Hear,
hear.) Here-we have fairly put before us these facts
temperately expressed--'that the Lord Lieutenant of
Ireland, doing as the First Lord of the Treasury tells
us was usually done, placed himself in communication
with a newspaper—l do not say whether great or small,
or whether its reputation was high or base—in order to
gain the influence of that newspaper to support his
Administration, paying that newspaper out of the public
purse.---(Hear, bear.) And then we are told that
this is not a subject for the House of Commons to
inquire into, and the First Minister of the Crown
rides and appeals to the Lord Lieutenant's great
deeds, and says we ought not to inquire into the
circumstances involving a question of public morality,
because the Noble Lord succeeded in putting down a
rebellion. This is the old story of Scipio revived. Had
the Noble Lord contented himself with this position the
matter would have beers intelligible, coupled with the
significant intimation that it was part of a system
had always prevailed. Is it the opinion of this House
that such a system should always prevail?—(Hear.) Is
which
it the opinion of the House of Commons that it is bene-
ficial to the country that the Government of Ireland
should subsidise the press from the public funds? That
is the question we have to decide—that is the question
in, which the country is interested. What the country is
now watching for is, whether the vote of the House of
Commons shall pat an end to a system which, in the
language of the resolution, is of a nature to weaken the
authority of the executive and to reflect discredit on the
administration of public affairs —(Loud cheers.)
Mr. HOW-MUSE. who rose. amidst partial cries for
a division, said he had heard nothing in the arguments
adduced on the opposite side of the House, or in the
statements made, that had at all tended to show him
that this motion wnasoo
tthien
tts ueh
eri era
en t t o(,
wacehados t
to
oaa
embarrass
ot
not
trra
displayedeedbaorr
me thatt
e r itof wasthe notLo rodf-La
ine
oa
--
Ireland.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member ss t he_ms leer for Buckingham-
etween,:ahse
Cohuiresfereen during
of public affairs in
badendeavouredhiusual ability in the
e to show that
speeche
r e
whaes haa dd
distinction
made)et
oo o
th
theperiod when Lord Stanley
Ireland and that taken by the present Lord-Lieutenant;
for
but he (Mr. Hobhouse) did not perceive any distinctionutenaut;
between the two proceedings. In the former
iLestaoc
Government retained particular writers to advocatee the'
cause, and this was all which had been done by the pries-
sent Viceroy. If thero were any difference between the
two cases he thought the difference was in favour of
Lord Clarendon, for at the time the latter had engaged
the services of the newspaper, law and good order were
very much at stake. He wigs informed that the
Dublin Times, the paper alluded to as having
been engaged while Lord Stat4ey was the Chief Se-