The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-23 00:00:00

THE SUN,

tlflittully in point of ieterpretation; for whereas in former i were regarded merely as a power which wow) to 'hie
time lacourt of justice was the medium of deeiding their 1 country a check upon the representotive ch ',miter, thee
metnitg a henever a cause arose, at preseet the Colo-' he contended that coy such body was seettileout, 'Do
nial-office—which in its nature woe a SCcret; triatinel— Governor appointed by the Crown had the poset of eWto
was tie sole interpreter. And id wit* tea answer to the en the nets ot the Ltgislative Atsembly, it wes, thme-
ot jettion that existed sgainst the praetiee that the fore, quite utinecessary to ere:we aeother pewee of ~,'t„
Noble Earl lately at the heed (if the Coloniel-office, on his lin a body of nominees. He (deo Dalte of Neweastle)
owe part, as well as en that of his prodectssors, pleaded I was not on advocate for giving- the right of clrectiOn of
the plenitude of liberality txereise.d by them ia regard members for the UPPtr Chamber to to, twine body' of
to the power of disallowance, stating that there was not eersons who elected the House Of Wetweseetae'ves' but
more than 24- per cent. on all colonial Bills to which it he thought a higher electoral gatliiirgowSn 'n•i goit, be
was applied. In respect to the next point—the election adopted, that the el,,cted might enjoy a longer tenure of
of officers—he (Lord Lytteltori) believed the appoint- office, and that the area of repre.sentte ion rlieht be en-
merit of a gowirnor by the Crown was as good as the lerged. With regard to that portico; of the Bill which
appointment of a governor by election; but he was of related to the land sales and the New Zeeland Company,
opinion that the primary evil was the temporary nature he recommended that the clauses should be postponed
ela
of the office. It as understood the governor of a until the charges which hod been brout agaiest the
Colony was to be removed at the end of five, six, or company had been fully examined and ' reported upon,
sevenyears; and this prevented all possibility of iden- After having given to the matter the best contideratien
tiacation with the interests of the colonists. The next in his power, he could net help thieking - that it would
point—via , self-defence, was, in the charter of Mary- be wise, just, and politic, and that' it would le el even-
Itland, entirely entrusted to the settlers; who had power tually to a more satisfactory settlement of the question,
given them to make war, by sea and by land, on all that the clauses relating to the New Zeeland Oompetly
Ruem i e s whatsoever that came against the colony; and should he altogether omitted from the Bill.
there was no reservation of the duty ot self-support in Earl GREY said that he thought it advisable to deal
that respect. The normal state of the ancient colonies in the first instance with that subject to which the
of the country was, therefore, to support themselves, Noble Duke had directed their attention towards the
to defend themselves, and to bear their own costs: conclusion of his address, namely, the clauses in the
the normal state of our modern colonies was quite Bill which referred to the claims of the New Zealand
the reverse. That system was in spirit nearly identical Company. flu certainly regretted to think that it should
• with the prayer of the petition presented by a Noble be necessary to lay on that rising colony a charge such
• Duke (Argyll) on a previous evening, a prayer which as thst which those clauses would impose. But it ap-
it had been said, was ioconaistent with the existence of pear dto him that that was a necessity arising out of the
1'
: a colonial empire. It was, however, in operation for obligation to do justice to those without whose efforts
, more than a century when the North American colonies end sacrifices there would be no colony at all in New
were the pride and glory of England, and when Eng. Zealand. Many persons were in the habit of fir-line;
lend possessed a colonial empire in the best sense of great fault with the New Zealand Company; and be had
the word. The result was, that the early colonists certainly never been one of their determined supporters.
were masculine, generous, and self-relying men; who But at the same time he was bound to say that, in his
asked no assistance from the mother country, but who opinion, the cry which was at present raised against
gave it. The question tn his mind was not as to the them was not less unjust than the attempt which had
material wealth of a colony, but as to the character of formerly been made to support them had been unwise and
the men with whom this country was peopling the uncalled for. The high character of the gentlemen who
world. The spirit of these colonists was not that of the presided over the company certainly offered a reason-
colonists at the frontiers on the Cape of Good Hope,who able ground for supposing that they had, at all events,
Set forth their own unwarlike dispositions as inapplicable acted in as honourable manner; and there was this
for self-defence. Year after year they bad to contend further ground for that belief, that they had been heavy
for life with savages far more daring and far more dan- losers by their connexion with the undertaking, Large
gerous than the Kafir tribes; and that spirit it was sums had been sunk by them, for the repayment of
which caused them to rise and shake off the yoke which they had only the distant prospect held out to
of misrule which had been laid upon them them by the arrangement set forth in the present Bill.
by the unjust domination of the mother country. For his part, the great fault which he found with them
As regarded loyalty, too, these colonies were far be- was that they had shown themselves somewhat deficient
fore the modern colonies; for whereas Franklin never in worldly wisdom and prudence, in adopting too easily,
even thought of separation until long after Lord Gran- the plausible schemes of a very clever projector—a pro-
e
'ill's folly and oppression had driven the American ictor whose talents he (Earl Grey) should be the last
colonists to revolt, Canada and Australia talk of tope- man to deny, but whose cleverness was not accompanied
ration upon the recurrence of every paltry grievance, by other qualities quite as necessary to make him a safe
In conclusion, he (Lord Lyttleton) would only add on or a trustworthy guide. He thought, too, that the di-
the general subject, that the Bill was a return in some rectors of the company had failed to evince any high de.
etobar(le;ltt.hße uvt,,tro
and that he gree of judgment in conducting the great witerpriss in
sort to the ancient system of colonisation,
hoped before long that system would be fully revived which they had somewhat rashly
As regarded the details of the Bill they were to he that
.was a necessary consequence YhcaonPe-
looked at under two aspscts. The first referred to the stitution of a board of directors. He believed that such
provincial governments; the second to the general go. a board was never likely to bo capable of a consistent
vernment. It was good with respect to the control of and sound management of the affairs of a great com-
land sales by the colonists; also with respect to patsy, unless some one individual took a complete lead of
the constitution of the general Legislature, because the rest of the body, and virtually became its mauager.
it got rid of the intermixture in the same That the New Zealand Company had not succeeded in a
chamber of the elective members and nominees Pecuniary point of view was not, in his opinion, much to
of the Crown. Many expressed their admire.- be wondered at. The difficulties in the way of founding
Lion of the Constitution of the United States. a distant colony were so great that he believed under-
Per his own part he did not wish, in any consti. takings of the kind could never be a source of profit to
Ile might etete, fo r the
tution, for our colonies to imitate the United States their original projectors. pur-
knee, the period of the revolution. What he would fol. pose of iilustrating those difficulties, that the Canterbury
low as a model was the constitution of those states when Assoeiatien had, as he had heard, gone theough the
they were colonies of this empire. However, with re- common lot, and had declared itself insolvent within the
Bisect to the Will, taking it altogether, her Majesty's Go- last few days. He believed that the correct principle
tternment had introduced a much better measure than for Parliament and the Government to adopt in such
he thought they had ever intended. He remembered cases was to avoid, as far as possible, any inie,Warence
the w;11-deserved sneer of the Noble Lord at the head of with the projectors beyond what was required for guard-
the Government, expressed at the opening of the pre- in; the country from the danger of ftu tire expense and
lent session, at the amount of knowledge possessed and future trouble, and for preventing those public
of the interest felt in their Lordships' House about the calamities which might take place if the Government
affairs of New Zealand. Nevertheless, he thought that were to exercise no control on toe's() occasions. Perhaps
there was no one of their Lordships who would believe his Noble Friend near him (Lord Lyttelton) would
that this Bill had been unwisely introduced, or that the allow him to illustrete the principle which he thought
consideration it had met with had been unwisely be. ought to be adopted in those matters, by stating the
stowed; and for himself, he should be well content that course which he had pursued at the period of the foun-
She Bill should pass without any material alteration in it. elation of the Canterbury Association, of which his
Lord WODEIIOUSE said that all who had paid any Noble Friend was a most distinguished member. That
attention to the frame work of the Bill would readily was a plan for the formation of a great Church colony
acknowledge that, in a theoretical point of view, there in a part of New Zealand which had then been unoccu-
Were some objections to be made to it—that in fact they pied, He had been told that the projectors had had a
r/toould not find in it a perfect model of a constitution.
large sum of money ready, and that they had been pre-
There appeared to be a total absence of any leading pared to undertake their scheme at their own risk with
Principle in it, and it might be plausibly objected to that the assistance of the New Zealand Company. Het had
it gave a disproportionate amount of government for so ventured to express very strongly to the projectors his
*Mall a community—a government consisting as it did opinion that they would be greatly disappointed in their
of six provincial legislatures., a general legislative expectations; and that with the large price which they
assembly, comprising two houses, a governor in chief, asked for land they would find it impossible to afford to
and six provincial governors—and all this for a popula- purchasers the advantages which they promised. But
lion not numbering more than 20,000 Europeans alto- he had also told them that if nothing were done
gather, With respect to the analogy which had been which could in any way delude the public as
sought to be established between the New Zealand to the real state of the case, and if certain regu-
colonies, he did not think it could hold; the cif- lotions were adopted for the purpose ot insuring
enrastances of each were so different, and in no one the people of this country and of the colony against
thing were they more different than in the compara• claims which might otherwise arise against them,
timely easy means of communication between the he could see no abjection to the scheme beieg under-
different parts of the colony which now existed, and taken at their own risk. Ho had thought at the time,
Which afforded facilities for carrying out a central and he still retained the opinion, that whatever might be
government. Neither did he think that the the disappointment to the original proprietors, a colony
'example of the United States of the present day was would be established which would in the end become a
analogous. The United States territory was so large great and flourishing community. The association had
}hat it would be impossible to have free institutions in been formed, and the results had been precisely such as
At, except in a federal form. New Zealand was in a po- he had anticipated. In his opinion it was no port of the
sition comparatively isolated, and the powers given duty of the Government or of Parliament to find pru-
under this Bill, undoubtedly large as they were, would, dunce for private individuals, and to prevent them from
he had no doubt, be readily put into operation. The embarking in measures which, as far as they were con-
People of the neighbouring Australian colonies, how- earned, aught not lead to satisfactory results. In the
ever, could not but strongly feel the contrast which their case of the Canterbury Association no claim was likely
constitution presented to that given by this Bill to New to arise against the public, and for this reason, that the
<ieldand, conferring as the latter did, the management relations between the association and the Government
ti the waste lands upon the colonists themselves, whilst had been clearly defined from the commencement.
that management in the case of the Australian. colonies But, unfortunately, in dealing with the New Zealand
Was made a metter of reservation for the Imperial Go- Company, the same course had not been adopted.
/eminent at home. The effect of the contrast would They had claims against the public arising
Probably be to abandon the management of the waste out of the fact, that in the earliest stage of
lands to the colonists in the case of Australia also. An- their existence their measures had been thwarted ,•
tether important concession made to the colonists in this partly by the Government at home, and still more by '
htill was on the subject of the veto of the Imperial Go- the local authorities in the colony, and that by that
/eminent and the power of disallowance of Bills for two means their chances of success had been diminished.
/ears by the governor. These were wise concessions, That was the conclusion at which the Committee of the
51d made at the proper time. We had now colonies House of Commons, which had inquired into the subject
speedily growing up to manhood, and if we treated them ia the year 1844, had arrived; and that Committee had
th a generous and liberal spirit, abandoning all vexatious further decided that that circumstance gave the company
interference in their purely local affairs, they would a claim against the Government and Parliament which
leadily submit to general control in matters of Imperial were bound to place them in as good a situation as that
interest to the Imperial Government in return for the ohich they would have held if no such ground of com-
Protection afforded to them, bound as they are to the plaint had existed. The Noble Earl opposite (the Earl
/nether country by community of language, of commer of Derby) had himself felt that claim so strongly that
vial interests, and of political institutions. immediately before his retirement from the Colonial-
The Duke of NEWCASTLE regretted that the Bill office he had made arrangements for assisting the corn-
mad come before them at a period of the session when it pany by means of a loan. When he (Earl Grey) had
Was in vain to expect to secure a discussion on either the been appointed to the direction of the same office, he
Second reading, or in the Committee, notwithstanding had found that what had been done for the company had
that the measure was one of the utmost importance, and been very far indeed from compensating them for the
that in it the Government had made concessions which injury they had sustained in consequence of previous
had
so large that he doubted whether the Government measures adopted towards them, and more especially in
really intended to confer them. For his own part consequence of the great delay in giving them possession
me certainly approved of the Bill, especially of the pro- of their land. He had thought that something further
,talon which admitted of the colonists altering the Con- should be done in order to enable them to try fairly the
mtitution, should it appear to require it; for it was im- scheme for which they had been originally incorporated.
Possible for the Government hero at home to legislate The subject had, accordingly, been placed in the hands
satisfactorily upon all the various and conflicting points of the late lamented Mr. Charles Buller, who had di-
!Pen which even the colonists themselves would find rccted great attention to the question, and had on va-
," great difficulty in coming to a unanimous de- rious occasions shown great ability in discussing it; and,
M4l, ion. Three different schemes of government had after considerable inquiry, Mr. Buller had devised an
-ten suggested for the colony—viz,, a central go- arrangement which had ultimately been approved of by
e'ernment, a sub-division of the colony into two him (Earl Grey) and by his colleagues inhale Go-
PhtoVinoes—and thirdly, the plan now before the verntuent. Tae
great points on which e espe-
igoeouse., giving a separa:te local legislature to each of cially teken precautions against future disputes and
m etx separate provinces, controlled by a central inconvenience were, first, that the pecuniary
legislature,assist-
ti which was composed of the elements of tame to be given to the company was not to exceed
~'1 six. With respect to the first of these, ho held it itn- a certain amount, and next, that that was to be a eon-
Possible to establish a central government, when, in elusive measure—that it was to be a discharge in fall of
fghality, there was no natural centre in the country. all possible claims on the part of the company. The
,here was equal objection to the subdivision into two Bill of 1847 had beau prepared in order to carry out that
r,tevinces; and, with respect to the third scheme, he con- arrangement, end had ultimately received the assent of
Qttlered it by far the best. As to the objection that the Parliament. In working out the arrangement it had al-
amount of population was not sufficient to warrant so ways appeared to him that there had been one clear rule
g
thlicw machinery of government as this Bill contained, he for him to follow—namely, to remember that the great
o4nstdered it by no means an insuperable objection: the object of the measure was to enable the company to try
increase, and a large population fairly whether the plan of a great colonising company
Ras
would rapidly
"al by no means an essential element in a local govern- could succeed. He had thought that it had not been the
meat,the
He was only afraid that the concurrent power of duty of the Government to have decided whether the
,me local and the central legislatures would not act har- measures of the company had been prudent or not, be-
tmoniously, and that there was some ground for the ap- cause the essence of the scheme had been that the com-
nihensiOn' that great confusion would result from it. It pany should rective a large discretion. At the end of
Was a wise proceeding to exclude nominees from the the period which had been named by the company them-
Legislature; they formed a most jarring element in the ' selves for fairly trying the experiment they had found
has
of the assemblies in other colonies; and it that, notwithstanding the Large pecuniary assistance they
superintendents
equally prudent to concede the appointment of the had received, they could no longer have gone on; and
he
by election in the colonies.. It would then they resigned their functions, and had, under the
r far easier for the colonies to obtain in that way terms of the Act, made certain claims upon the Go-
amore suitable man for the office than the Government, vernment, which were ultimately to be paid out of the
1,741 the opinion of Governor Grey confirmed that view, land revenues of New Zealand. He certainly felt Far-
t': now came to a part of the Bill to which he could not prised to hear the Noble Duke declare that the company
Zer the same meed of approbation that he gave to other had no moral claims upon the Government; and he (Earl
t'egtrtions of it—ho alluded to the principle which it Grey) would defy any man to inquire into the facts of
1,70 ted with regard to the constitution of the Upper the case and come to the conclusion that the claims
Ass
of the Legislature, and in which respect there of the company could be honestly, repudiated. He
118 a complete departure from the Bill upon which the rested. those claims on the simple wording of the Act of
measure was said to be founded, for the Bill of Earl Parliament as it already stood. That Act, in his opi-
idrey, he believed, adopted the elective principle. The nion, supposed the ultimate payment of the debt; and if
:11/1t 'of the measure seemed to him (the Duke of Yr.,y- it were to be paid, it was the interest both of the com-
t,'ltatle) to be a want of unity of principle; and he could parry and of the colony that it should be paid as speedily
.ht help thinking that the same grounds for abandoning as possible by the best administration of the land revenue.
;gat) nominee s stem in the
have representative Chamber He entirely concurred with the Noble Duke (Newcastle)
;mould induced the Government to abandon that that an inquiry into this subjecti was imperatively neces-
tlatern in the case of the Upper Chamber. Again, sary, and that in another Parliament a searching laves-
." Bill would place the Colonial Secretary in the ligation before a Committee of the House ought to take
taition of en arbitrator, whose office it would place. tto far as he was colinecerned, he wished that every
to act between the Governor and nominee Cleans- letter and docriment, pun. or private, should be pro-
ber
and the representative body. Moreover, he was of &Iced and carefully examined. and that the result should
tpinion that they would never get a body of nominees be Lowy reported upon by an impartial yemmittem
to work which was required He was per.UNCled that if that was done, although he
ft. Pay that attention tot the
h °lu a legislative assembiy. This system was intended, was ear from being prepared to defend every act and
t,(l Presumed to bear some sort of resemblance to ina- proceeding; of the cerepeny, there would be found no-
'trial institutionslbut if it were so, it appeared to him thing w".ehatever
that
; to refl fl upon the hoeour or probity
illiat the Government were pursuing the shadow and not of the gentlemen by whom its affairs were earned on.
they
substance of a Conservative policy. lie thought A
......a an inquiry was to take place, it would be worse
"tY grasping at a notion of something Conserve- than uset a t
tg,e, , avers of sspaably—semething of au the gronridlessr!ess ofto chargestPhie"
ass in him t
against the company elsewhdre•
that had bean brought
anyopinion with regard to
In a nominee house a
It would be also
imperial: character—whilst they were losing the sub-
zt4-anCEI of a really Conservative measure namely, impossible that - the House could fully understand
e;raking this body elective, and thereby introducing men the case in all its coreications without a lengthened
te`°•had en interest in the colony, and in the preserve- i reference to the voluminous pipets which had been laid
littto of all that concerned it, which nominee members before Parliament. But there were two Main points put
liglota had, and, he believed, in fact never eould. possess. I, forward as charges against the company to which
public
absurdbrieflythatapplying
non - • .'could have any similarity to money enrusted to them ' -
t• like New Zealand
to
rt•element in the colony tended; and second, as to c • : 1• d been
to 'tome of Lords. There iVa3 110 Prtatn Cp1)11011t) that li
nil though I sent •t to colony,
Ntiteeltresponcl with such au institution, dt .
..,
by i od., the With regard to the first of these
th'"ePs, in theory, at first sight, oppomtmeets 1 charges, he could say, for the two gentlemen who were 1
e eof the Crown 1 connected with the administration get
Crown or the representative
than , ,
without
of the funds as corns
he'ttttht look rather more like a Remo of Lords a 1 mistioners, and whose permission no money
egg.v elected by the people, yet if it were practically 1 could be applied---one of them had become tcrott,eg in
welttliued, the appearance would fade away, and it , some disputes with the company, which in the end led to
11l unreality ' hi
the i I at once be seen what a shadow and an a removal; he was succeeded by a gentleman in whose
1/.4010 thing was. Further, if the nominee chamber ! honour and judgment he felt equal
confidence, while he

LONDON,

• fe!t still more for his temper and discretion. It was only
in a case where the money was likely to be applied in n,
ne•inr-r contrary to the iatentions of Per Hesitant titat,
he (Earl Grey) advised their interference. Then
with regard to Use opinione ho would only make one
short oboervation. In 1849 papers were laid before
Parliament, and given to the world, and sent out to
the colony, in which was the fact that an opinion
of countel unfavourable to the company had
been pronounced; hut, at the same tine, he had himself
explicitly stated eis opinion to be in favour of the com-
pany. These opinions were known in the colony three
years previously. The whole question was whether
the settlement between the company and the settlers was
a fair and proper one. The fact was, that it W 33 one
mot favourable to the settlers. The circumstance of
that opinion having been given was known to all the
world, and no attempt was made to disturb that settle-
cwt. He could only express a hope that the inquiry
would take place; but in the meantime it was their duty
to adhete to their bargain, and let them have the advan-
tage. He thought that out of justice to the company
the arrangement as suggested by her Majesty's Go-
vernment ought to be maintained. The settlers of New
Zealand had no right to complain of that—they were to
be charged with a quarter of the gross proceeds of the
sale of the lard towards the discharge of the corn-
: pant's debts. Now, what gave values to the land
was the expenditure of capital by the Parliament
and the company; and that being so, it was desirable
that the New Zealand Company, who had received
nothing for their large expenditure for many years,
shou'd have that amount from the land. The settlers
could have no right to complain of that as being unjust;
but he thought it was an error in the Bill not to state
that the future liabilities which might arise under the
Ant of 1847 should be defrayed out of the New Zealand
land revenue; they had certainly no right to come upon
the British Treasury or the nation. That was the view
he entertained while he held the Colonial seals, and it
would be satisfactory if the Bill had contained a clause
to that effect. With regard to the larger and more
general question, the Noble Lord who spoke second in
the debate entered fully into it, but he did not think his
Noble Friend had read history very correctly. He did
not think he could say that the old American colonies
hod complete control over the land and revenues of the
colonies.
Lord LYTTELTON—By their charters.
Earl GREY—That, of course, was a very different
matter. He also stated that they had unrestricted trade
with all the world, but this could not be established by

the fact, as from the earliest date it was the policy of
France, of England, and of every other country, to re-
strict the colonies exclusively to their own use and
benefit. They were looked upon as a species of Crown
land. It was further stated that they had an unlimited
power of making war. Undoubtedly they made war
upon the natives; but beyond that they had no wars of
their own, and that was the only species of war they
were likely to make. There were only three or four pro-
visions of the Bill to which he thought it right to offer
any objection. The first was, as to the change in the
constitution of the provincial councils. He believed that
a great portion ot the public business would devolve on
these councils; but it was quite necessary also that
there should be general councils to meet special cases
and to meet occssioually. Ho had urged the same objec-
tion with regard to the Act relating to the Australian co-
lonies. It was, at the same time, satisfactory to find that
the Government had given a general over ridingauthority
to the general legislature. He thought, also, that great
inconvenience would arise from that provision of the
Bill which deprived the Crown of a veto upon the acts
of the colonial legislature. He had always thought that
the Crown ought to have this supreme authority; and
it would he tuiposeible beforehand to define what acts
they should be ailowed to pass without any control, and
what acts the Imperial Legislature might place its veto
on. That would give rise to conflicts of authority and
jurisdiction; and they were all aware that such really
occurred in the United States. Without such a provi•
sion as he had rekared to, he feared that very serious
inconvenience and embarrassment would result. On the
ether hand, he could not see how any practical inconve-
nience would result from granting this power to the
Crown. It was said that two years would be an unne-
cessarily long time for disallowing colonial acts; but
that, it appeared to him, would be an advantage. In the
course ot that period, experience had shown that amend-
ments were often made in Acts hastily passed before
they were submitted for her Majesty's assent. He
thought the making superintendents elective was a
mistake, these offices being analagous to that of
sheriffs in England, and therefore in some respects
under the control of the Governor of the colony.
They all knew that the foundation of the power of the
Governor depended upon his privilege of suspending any
ect or Appointment until it had received the sanction of
the Crown. He came next to the constitution of the
general legislature. By far the most defective part of
our North American colonial legislatures was the elec-
tive councils.—(ilear.) At one time Legislative Coun-
cils were renewable at the pleasure of the Crown, but
the act of 1791 made them elected for life. It was ab-
surd to call such councils a copy or imitation of our
House of Lords; there was no similarity between the
two legislatures. It was, however, at first intended by
the act of 1791 to make those councils resemble the
House of Lords by creating hereditary honours. It
was not intended that they should be a small oligarchy,
dependent on the will of the Crown; but circumstances
at the time were too strong fur Mr. Pitt, and no heredi-
tary honours had been created. The Legislative Coun-
cils „had become a mere body of nominees. In fact,
Legislative Councils were universally regarded in
Canada as the great obstacle to good Government; and
nothing so much tended to bring about that unhappy
state of things which led to insurrection in Canada than
these councils. The question then was, how had Legisla-
tive Councils worked? He was bound to say, according
to his experience, they had not worked satisfactorily in
North America. The reason why they had not worked
satisfactorily was, because on many occasions those
Councils had not had sufficient weight with the public,
or as they ought to have possessed, in order to render
theme properlyitv
nteessuseful; and the consequence of
thethat had
beers
of making large additions to them, so
that, to use the Noble Duke's expression, they had more
than once been swempsd. The present Bill, in its ori-
ginal shape, would have worked injuriously in this par-
ticular respect; for if a mistake had been made at the
onset in the nomination, it would have been competent
for a few individuals to have obstructed or defeated any
beneficial or useful Pleasure which the colonists and the
Crown might have approved of and desired to pass into
l aagain to Parliament, and the only way to meet such a
state
oefsthwionugladwhaasvebythgeinvibnegen necessary to have come
to h
discre-
tionary powers to make such additionst e Crown g
to thobodiesse
e
s
might lee considered requisite. He begged the
Noble Earl, on account of the ireportence of the sub-
ject, to do him the favour to pay a little attention to his
statements.

The Earl of DERBY—I do assure the Noble Earl I
am sorry to say I have heard every word ho has ad-
dressed to the House during the last hour and three
quarters.—(Laughter.)
Earl GREY—Then the Noble Earl has the enviable
quality of listening to a discourse and of carrying on an
interesting conversation at the same time, without losing
a word of either conversation or discourse.—(Laughter.)
The NoBLIE EARL resumed—lt was inconvenient to
withdraw drtahwe,yremspigehettabriluotemen from the assembly in order
considered it was betterrthtehyeshLoue
mixed, as that would not add to their weight and
gtdislastiitvesCinogulynctihl.anHbee
authority. Ho would advert to another important
point—the appropriation of the land fund. He woul.l
not repeat the Opinion he had more than once ex-
pressed, that it was the duty of Parliament to lay
.down some rule as to the disposal of waste lands
in some of ;our more important colonies. But no
such rule had been laid down in Canada, Nova
Scotia, and, latterly, in the West India colonies. The
subject had been entirely legislated upon by the colonial
legislatures—the colonial legislatures had passed Acts,
nod had token the whole matter upon themselves. In
the New Zealand Bill there appeared to be powers
which permitted the local legislatures to legislate on the
matter. He feared the system under the Bill would
load to jobbing and abuse. It appeared to him that the
power would be better if given to individual provinces
than to the general legislature, because one settlement
might desire to make regulations and prices which an-
other settlement might object to. By delegating the
applicetion of the money derived from the sale of waste
lands to the general legislature instead of to the local
councils, he feared that much abuse would arise. Ho
entirely concurred in the concluding observations of
his Noble Friend behind him when he said, that
this was a most important crisis in the affairs of our
colonial empire, and that much would depend upon
the course of legislation now pursued. He adopted
phrase of his Noble Friend, that many of our
colonies were " growing up to manhood," and
that it was now necessary to carry out that
scheme of policy which would have been proper even
in an earlier stage of their social progress. But
this policy ought to be carried out, not by separating
from the old and established system hitherto pursued by
this country—uone of the constitutional powers hitherto
possessed by the Crown ought to be abandoned—but the
Government ought carefully to exercise the existing
powers. It was with some degree of pride that he found
the North American colonies in their present position of
prosperity. In 1846 they were in a different condition,
and they had to surmount difficulties of no ordinary na-
ture before they attained their present state. Until 1846
not one of these colonies enjoyed the system of govern-
ment now established, and at present working successfully
and harmoniously. In Canada we had seen the two
races of men divided, and with no general agreement
as to the form of government under which they were to
live; and that great and distinguished man expressed his
greatest doubt as to whether the system would work iu
that colony. But in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and
Prince Edward's Island, the systems of local govern-
ment had been carried into complete and satisfactory
operation. In Canada we had now the aspeet of a united
people, French and Eeoslish acting harmoniously
together, and regarding the mother country with affec-
tion and esteem. So healthy was the feeling, that the
cry of annexation end the pressure of political discontent
previously aoparent had entirely disappeared, and the
colony was neeking, greater progress in population and
wealth than any of the neighbouring states; and Mr.
Tremenhere, in an interesting book recently published,
took precisely this view of the subject. The Crown
possessed all the legal power necessary for dealing with
00 colonies, and, as far as their welfare was concerned,
it teas only necaesary that it should be exercised with
toarnent and discretion.
J
Lord LYTTELTON thought it desirable to separate
eie Canterbury Association from the Canterbury Co-
iony,—(Fiear, hear). The Canterbury Association
,eight have been involved in some difficulty, but us
far as the colony was concerned he was prepared to
in. the same space of time no other settle-
moe t badcontend,
thatattained BO great a degree of prosperity.