The Sun.
London, England, 1864-02-10 00:00:00

producethe
tshaantcun of theoroiginald Queen,espatchind t
sent freoratyhethFe etaosreeicgrnry o
Officei
State, but which was afterwards withdrawn and altered,.
Sir H. CAIRNS said—l wish also to ask a. question
relative to papers we had printed. this morning, some
ptsaommiengfrodmesptahtechAems,esriocmane
from the cu..__ has been one despatch of very
on esriiacea n
of affairs
the
w
Minister here. But -liar character which has
great importance and of a pee,. ' in the ordinary
a tc;32,
been printed in America, and reprinteu . 4,,ted, I
channels of information in this country. It was
think, 11th July last year. If I understand, this despatch,
coming from the American Minister of Foreign Affairs,
was to bo read to Earl Russell and a copy of it left with
him, and it is evidently far more material than any yet laid
on the table. I wish to ask her Majesty's Government
whether they are prepared to communicate that despatch to
the House of Commons, and at the same time the answer
that was returned either to Lord Lyons or sent directly,
or whether they are prepared to state that no answer was
sent. (Cheers.)
Mr. LAYARD—When that despatch is communi-
cated to her Majesty's Government it will be published.
It was never presented to her Majesty's Government, and
her Majesty's Government have no knowledge of any such
despatch. I do not quite understand to what despatch the
other hon. gentleman alludes to in reference to Poland. If
there is such a despatch—and I think there is not—if he
will communicate with me privately on the subject it shall
be produced.
Lord R. CECIL—Do I understand the secretary to
say that no despatch from Mr. Adams to the Foreign-office,
conveying the demands which Mr. Seward made, has been
forwarded to the Foreign-office, and if thereis no despatch,
is there any memorandum of any verbal application con-
veying the same insolent demands ?
Mr. LAYAR )—.E have stated that although that de-
spatch appeared in the newspapers, we have no knowledge
it was never communicated, and we cannot pro-

the house, instead of meeting at two o'clock tc-morrow,
should adjourn till Thursday. (Hear,
hear.)
SCHLES WIG-HOLSTEIN, .
Mr. S. FITZGERALD—I cannot avoid to r to the 7.
pertunity which this motion
gives To to a dress a I..'w
words to the house upon the extraordin ,ry 01 sever which
wag given with reference to the Danish papa s by the hon.
gent.eman
i the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs. That
is a question upon which the heart of this country is set,
which agitates nearly every portion of the Continent, and
upon which this house and the country are agreed in de-
manding the most complete information, not only as to the
facts that are passing, but as to the conduct pursued from
day to day by her Majesty's Government, and the course
they have pursued for weeks past. (Hear.) The hon.
gentleman being asked when we may expect information
on these points quietly tells the house that no papers at all
can be given before a period of three weeks. (Cheers.)
Three weeks I why, what may have happened in three
weeks ? In the spaceof three days we have seen the Duchy
of Schleswig overrun, we have seen a gallant people beaten
down by an overpowering force. (Loud cheers.) And yet
on such a question as this the Government tell the House
of Commons that they are to remain contentedly in the dark
for a period of three weeks I Now, I beg to point out to
the house that as regards Japan papers were promised in
her Majesty's Speech ; but respecting Denmark complete
ei:ence was observed, and no information was promised to
the lij:nse of Commons. And as to the difficulty of pub-
lishing these uspers the noble lord at the head of the Foreign
Office when he
L:hooses to do s.o is at no loss for means of
giving information to :he public about
We know hiotv v
his policyery welland that
tthe
~t
course which he is going to . ',le lord, before the ink of
in the course of the autumn the nos
off to the _London
a particular despatch was dry, hurried re
'
ee published
Gazette, and in the columns of the Gazette it wa_ e was
even before it reached the Power to whom that despatce
addressed. (Cheers.) I think the house will conceive from
the answer of the hon. gentleman and from the course taken
by her Majesty's Government on this subject that they fear
discussion. (Hear, hear.) They know very well, with the
feeling which always prevails in this house, that there will
be no discussion until the house has had ample means of
forming an opinion ; and they hope by delay to tide over
the critical time, and to avoid a discussion of their policy,
and of the course they have pursued. I therefore appeal to
the noble lord at the head of the Government to rectify what
I may almost call the tortuous policy of the Foreign-office,
and to give, at the earliest moment, the most complete and
most ample information to the House of Commons. (Cheers.)
Mr. LAYARD—I think the lion. gentleman has wasted
a good deal of virtuous indignation. (Cries of No, no.)
There is no desire on the part of the Government either to
avoid discussion or to waste time in this matter. The hon.
gentleman has filled the office which I have the honour to
fill at present, and ought to be aware that there is great diffi-
culty in publishing a complete set of papers upon transac-
tions of this kind. In the first place, the hon. gentleman
knows we cannot lay on the table of the house documents
communicated by foreign Powers without first consulting
them as to whether or not they wish them to be published.
That is a matter of courtesy, and it is a rule which is always
followed. I can only say that I saw the printer to-day,
and also communicated with the clerks at the Foreign-
office. The other night I stated that I hoped these papers
would be speedily produced, and I then hoped that they
would be produced next week, but they are so voluminous
that I am assured this is impossible if we wish to present the
papers in a perfect form. I have no doubt if the house desires
to have them in instalments portions can be furnished, but
I doubt whether the house will thus obtain the exact infor-
mation which it desires. I can assure the house that every
possible speed shall be used in expediting the production of
the papers. They shall be laid on the table at the very
earliest moment—l cannot give any other answer. But I
assure the house there is no intention on the part of the Go-
vernment to retard even by one day the publication of the
documents.
Mr. DISRAELI—I think we have not yet received a
satisfactory answer on the part of the Government. The
affeirs of Germany and Denmark were of so grave a chars-
ter some time ago that it might have been a question for
the Government whether they should not have advised the
Sovereign to assemble Parliament at an earlier period.
(Cheers.) That was the feeling of men of very different
political opinions. But there are, I know, very grave reasons
which might operate to restrain the Government from giving
that advice, except under most urgent circumstances. How-
ever, if Parliament were not summoned earlier than usual,
I think her Majesty's Government were bound the moment
it assembled—(cheers) —to place in our hands the documents
necessary to form an opinion on this all engrossing and all
important subject,—a subject upon which the question of
peace or war, or even of a general war, may ultimately have
to be decided, and with regard to which at this moment we
are completely in the dark. The technical answer of the
Under-Secretary is most unsatisfactory. He tells us he went
to the printer to-day. Well, but the Under-Secretary ought
to have gone to the printer long before; ho ought to have
gone every day and, it necessary, every hour before Parlia-
ment met to the printer for these papers. (Cheers and
laughter.) He ought to have insisted on these papers
being ready to present to Parliament the first night, I took
occasion on the opening day to notice the strange omission
from the Royal Speech of any promise that papers on the
subject of Germany and Denmark would be produced.
What was the answer of the noble lord ? He said his ob-
ject was that the Speech should nog be too long. (A laugh.)
Yet he found space to insert in that Speech a promise that
the papers respecting Japan—no doubt, an interesting and
important subject, but conti asted with the European ques •
tien of Germany and Denmark, a matter of comparatively
trifling importance—should be forthcoming. There was
room for that in the Speech. But when I pressed the noble
lord for these papers, ho treated the matter with derision,
and said, "You shall have papers; you shall have plenty
of them, and I hope hon. members will study them. I have
read a good many of them (said the noble lord) and I have
got a surfeit of them." It was clear to me at that time that
her Majesty's Government had no settled determination to
present these papers to Parliament—(cheers)— and, coup-
ling the tone of his address with the omission of any pro-
mise of the documents in the Royal Speech, I must say
the non-production of papers on such an important subject
was a great inadvertence, and one which I think it would
be difficult to vindicate. Practically, I take it for granted
that the mass of these papers, either in manuscript or
in proof sheets, are now prepared, and that permis-
sion to print them has been obtainefi from all the
foreign Powers. That is a mere mechanical affair. The
printer of the Foreign-office was rubbed up to-ddy for the
first time, and, frightened at the mass of documents lefore
him, no doubt made tho same sort of calculation which '..`16
would have done if an ordinary thick pamphlet on the
Schleswig-Holstein question—and we have seen many of
them—were brought to him. He said they would require
three weeks to print. But if you have all the materials
ready, and the credit of the Foreign-office be at stake, you
must endeavour to compensate for former laches by dis-
tributing these documents into the hands of several
printers—(hear, hear)—and I will be bound to say, with
proper diligence, that you (eight to produce these papers
to Parliament in eight and forty hours. The house ought
to insist on these papers being placed in their hands in 48
hours, or otherwise to relinquish the fulfilment of their
highest duty. (Hear, hear,)
Lord PALMERSTON said—Sir, I think that the right
hon. gentleman is taking a leaf out of the book of the Prus-
sian and Austrian Governments, who called on Denmark to
revoke a constitution in 48 hours, when that could only be
constitutionally accomplished by the instrumentality of a
parliament not then assembled. (Laughter.) I can assure
the right hon gentleman—ho can believe me or not as he
likes—(a laugh)—l took it so much as a matter of course
that papers on so important a matter as Denmark and Ger-
many must necessarily be presented to Parliament, that it
was totally unnecessary to mention them in the speech-4f
it was an omission I am sorry for it. So far as its arising
from any doubt whether the papers should or should not be
presented, I might as well have doubted my own existence
as the obligation of the Government to lay them before Par-
liament, There was no doubt about it. The hon. gentle-
man is perhaps not quite so well aware as the hon. member
f r Horsham of the labour of preparing an accurate print of
a vast mass of documents ; it is not only the printing of
them, but they must be looked over after by a competent
person to see that there are no mistakes of the press and
that all has been accurately done. The Under Secretary
stated to the house that if it is desired these documents may
be produced in parts, and perhaps this might be the most
convenient manner ; and if hon. members desire they may
have Part I. and then Part ll.—(a laugh)—before they
come to the matter they intend to discuss ; but no delay
shall take place in laying before the house the whole of the

fer ence by ilia country in the civil war now raging in
China was unnecessary and impolitic. (Hear, hear.)
ELECTION PETITIONS.
Mr. TIUNT gave notice that he would move for leave to
bring in a bill to amend the :aw relating to election pea-

tions.

FOG SIGNALS.
Mr. DAWSON asked the Prtsident of the Board of
Trade, whether, in consequence of the numerous marine
disasters that have taken place at the entrance of the Gulf
of St. Lawrence, any plans for the erection of powerful fog
signals in the vicinity of Cape Race,Newfoundland, had yet
been approved of by the Board of Trade; and whether any
expectation may be held out that such precautionary beacons
may be in early operation.
Mr. M. GIBSON said that the Trinity Corporation had
for some time been anxious to establish fog signals at Cape
Race, but up to the present time had failed in discovering
any invention by which sound could he conveyed from land
to vessels at a certain distance at sea that would be avail-

Able.
THE RUMOURED DISSATISFACTION AT

COPENHAGEN.
In reply to Mr. PEACOCKE,
Lord PALMERSTON said ho had seen a statenunt
n"
the papers that great dissatisfaction prevailed in Col -
P
hagen as to the retreat of the Danish troops from Dane-
wirke ; and although the Government had no official in-
formation on the subject, there was no doubt tha
inhabitants of Copenhagen felt great dissatisfaction
in regard to the event in question. " Gentlemen
at home at ease" no doubt might feel dissatis-
fied with the conduct of those who were suddenly called to
decide on an emergency. It was not for this country to
decide on the propriety of the ground which induced the
Danish general to retire from the Danewirke.
THE ALEXANDRA AND ALABAMA.
Mr. PEACOCKE asked tho. Under Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs, whether the Government would lay upon
the table of the house copies of their correspondence with the
Government of the United States, and more especially that
portion of it relating to the case of the Alexandra, and the
claim by the United States Government for compensation
for the losses inflicted by the Alabama and other Con-
federate cruisers ?
!vir. LAYARD said as regarded the Alexandra, as the
case of that vessel was under judicial consideration, it would
not be advisable to lay any documents relative to the samo
on the table. With reference to the Alabama, papers had
already been laid on the table.
SALMON FISHERIES.

of it ;
duce it. -MO was there no verbal demand ?
Lord R. CECIL-- '-al
Cemmunioation in that sense
Mr. LA.YARD—No vero._
was ever held. agreed to.
The motion for adjournment was ultimate.,
KAGOSIMA.
Mr. BUXTON moved the following resolution : —" That
this house, while only imputing to Admiral Kuper a
misconception of the duty imposed on him, deeply
regrets the burning of the town of Kagosima,
as being contrary to those usages of war which
prevail among civilised nations, and to which it
is the duty and policy of this country to adhere."
In the course of a long address he cited several authorities
on international law to show that the bombardment of
Kagosima was directly opposed to the dictum of the moat
celebrated writers on maritime law.
Mr. AYTOUN, in seconding the motion, condemned the
arrogance of the English merchants and residents in Japan
as having been the real cause of enmity felt towards us by
the natives.
Mr. LONGFIELD proposed, as an amendment, to omit
from Mr. Buxton's resolution the words " while only im-
puting to Admiral Kuper a misconception of the duty im-
posed on him." His object was to free a gallant and meri-
torious officer from the grave imputation that was sootht to
be cast upon him by the terms of the resolution. He con-
tended that Admiral Kuper had done no more than execute
the commands with which he was entrusted, and there had
been no cold-blooded cruelty, misconception of orders, or
terrible mistake on his part. He understood his instructions
well. He obeyed the orders that were given him, The
measures he concerted were within both the letter and the
spirit of his instructions ; and what he conceived prudently
ho had executed bravely. The orders given to him by
Colonel Neale, her Majesty's representative in Japan, in
accordance with instructions received from the Foreign-
office, included the burning of the town of Kagosima and the
palace of Prince Satsuma, which he performed with the
knowledge and in the presence of Colonel Neale himself,
who, having given the orders, knew the consequences, and
expressed his satisfaction at the result. The resolution of
Mr. Buxton was nothing else than an attempt to offer up
Admiral Kuper as a scapegoat to save the Government
from the censure of the house.
Sir J. HAY seconded the amendment, and said that the
imputation thrown upon Admiral Kuper did no credit either
to the Government or those persons who had thus assailed
a brave and worthy man, The duty he had executed was

Mr. DUTTON asked the Secretary of State for the Hone
D2pertment whether it was his intention to introduce any
bill an ending the Salmon Fisheries (England) Act of 1861,
and giving extended powers for the preservation of salmon
in fresh and tidal waters ?
Sir G. GREY said the subject was being investigated
by a commission.
DANISH PAPERS.

In reply to Lord It. CECIL,
Mr. LAYARD said that these papers would not be ready
for ,presentation to Parliament before three weeks. (Oh, oh,)
SCHLESWIG-HOLSTEIN.
Mr, D'ISRAELI—I wish to make an inquiry of the noble
lord the First Minister with respect to an answer which he
gave yesterday, which has occasioned some perplexity. It
was with reference to an inquiry as to whether the Court of
Berlin had notified to our Government that in consequence
of the war between Prussia and Denmark it no longer held
itself bound by the Treaty of 1852. The noble lord, as I
understood him, seemed to say that no such communica-
tion had been received by our Government from the Court
of Berlin ; but at the same time he expressed the opinion
of the Government upon such a course of conduct had it
been pursued by the Prussian Government. The noble lord
said that he should look upon such a proposition as most
unjust and monstrous. (An hon. member—" Prepos-
terous.") Preposterous—a word of nearly the same sig-
nificance. The question asked yesterday was not as to the
morality of that conduct, but as to its legality. Having
heard the noble lord's opinion of such possible conduct, I
wish to know whether he is of opinion, or whether we are to
conclude that her Majesty's Government are of opinion,
that, in consequence of the war between Prussia and Den-
mark, Prussia may b 3 relieved from the undertakings which
by the Treaty of 1852 she has entered into with this coun-
try, and with the other signatories of the treaty, or whether
those engagements on the part of Prussia are not totally
independent of any relations which may subsist between
Prussia. and Denmark. (Hear, hear.) There is another
matter referring almost to the same subject, and certainly
to the answer given by the noble lord yesterday, on which I
should like to have some information. The noble lord
seemed in that answer to intimate that the German Powers
had announced that, when the invasion of the Duchies had
been completed they should be prepared to evacuate those
Duchies as soon as all the causes—the avowed causes—for
which the invasion had taken place were removed and their
object effected. What I wish to know from her Majesty's
Government, as a second inquiry, whether before the inva-
sion of the Danish Duchies took place, an event of which
no notice was given to the world, her Majesty's Govern•
moat obtained from the Governments of Austria and Prus-
sia any undertaking that when these Duchies had been in-
vaded and occupied, if the avowed objects of the invasion
were obtained, they would restore the Duchies to the King
of Denmark. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—I think that what I stated—at all
events, what I meant to state, yesterday was, that a notion
had been broached in Germany and in some quarters at
Berlin that if a state of war could be established between
Prussia and Austria and Denmark, that would releasethose
two Powers from the engagement of the Treaty of 1852. I
stated my opinion upon that point, but I meant to say, or to
imply, that that was not the doctrine upon which Austria
and Prussia at present take their stand, inasmuch as they
have declared, by that paper which was read here and in the
other House of Parliament, that they acknowledge the
binding nature of the Treaty of 1852, and adhere to the
intention of maintaining the integrity of the Danish
monarchy, and therefore they cannot contend that their
hostilities with Denmark have released them from the en-
gagements of that treaty. But I entirely concur with
the view which I infer that the right hon. gentleman
takes that, even if that condition of things existed be-
tween Denmark and the two Powers which could be ra-
tionally called war, and which if the engagement had been
contracted simply between these two Powers and Denmark
might and would have put an end to that treaty, still the
Treaty of 1552 was not a treaty contracted simply between
Austria and Prussia, on the one hand, and Denmark on the
other— (hear)—but was an engagement which they entered
into, in common with the other great Powers who signed
and the Powers and States who acceded to that treaty, and
that they could not be relieved from that common engage-
ment by anything which may take place between them
separately and Denmark. That opinion I found not simply
upon the reason of the thing. There is a case precisely in
point. The five Powers entered into a treaty with Turkey
by which they agreed to respect the neutrality of the Bos-
phorus and the Dardanelles, and that no ships of war of
any of the Powers should enter thoso straits without
the speecial permission of the Porte, and then cnly a
certain number at a time. Tho ratifications of that
treaty were exchanged with Turkey, and not among all the
Powers who signed it, just is in the case of the Treaty of
1352 the ratifications were exchanged in London between
each of the Powers and Denmark, and the Powers did not
go through the unnecessary form of exchanging ratifications
with each other. When the British fleet entered the Dar-
danellee at the commencement of the Russian war, Austria
protested against that act as a violation of the common en-
gagement which by the treaty regulating the passage of the
Dardanelles was taken by all the Pow, rs. An answer was
given, which in our opinion was sufficient ; but that proved
that in the opinion bf Austria herself a general engagement
taken by many Powers towards one was binding upon all
711° thole it, not simply between each and the party con-
erned, but as with respect to the allies with whom that
engagement was t "ken.
THE TOWNLEY CASE.
In reply to Sir F, KELLY.
Sir G. GREY Stated that the papers connected with this
Case, inclu'ling the certificates of the borough magistrates
and medical men upon which
Townley had been removed
to the lunatic asylum, Would
be in the hands of members
before he moved the second
readingt of the bill which he had
introduced the previous nigh
SCHLESW
IG-HOLSTEIN.
Mr. i' ISR AE Ll—ln continuation of the question put tee
the nubie lord; I wish to ask whether what was callen a
despatch the other ntglet—a document which, 1 believe,yweivthidedneeiswioans
considered very ambiguous, and was treated
by the Secretary of State—is the last and cal
Government possess of the intention of Austria and Prussia
the
to uphold the Treaty of 18.52 ? I would also take the liberty
of reminding the noble lord that he has omitted to answer
my:second question.
Lord PALMERSTON—I had just discovered my unin-
tentional omission to answer the last question of the right
hon. gentleman, and was about to do so. The despatch
alluded to is certainly the last official communication re-
ceived by the-aevernmeut ; but I consider that it is com-
plete in regard to the recognition of the Treaty of 1852 and
the maintenance of the integrity of the Danish. Monarchy.
'We certainly have no guarantee on the part of Austria
and Prussia that they will evacuate Schleswig when the
Constitution is revoked ; but we have the assurance in our
own minds that they are two Powers which must think their
character for good faith of some value. The ground, and
the only ground, on which I apprehend they have entered
Schleswig and occupied it, as a material guarantee, was to
obtain the revocation of the Constitution of November, as
far as it ;relates to Schleswig. And, therefore, I think,
they will find, when that demand has been complied with,
that they are bound by honour and good faith to give up
that occupation which they undertook simply for the pur-
pose of obtaining- that revocation.
ASH-WEDNESDAY.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
Lord PALMERSTON, again rising, said--It is usual for
this house on 'Ash-Wednesday to meet at two o'clock, in-
stead of at the usual time, I understand, however, that
there is really no business for to-morrow, the Iron. and
gallant member for the Queen's County having postponed,
or consented to postpone, the motion of which hole: id given
notice. It will, therefore, I think, be wore conveni put that

imposed upon him by the barbarous orders of the Foreign
Office, and the attack on Kagosima, following upon the
affair in Siam last year, was but the culminating point of
the policy which the Government had of late adopted in the
East.

p apere.
Lord J. MANNERS said—l can quite believe the noble
lord that there will be no unnecessary delay for the
future in the course of delivery of these papers; but,
certainly, a great and unnecessary delay had occurred in
the presentation of the papers up to the present time. It
was impossible to listen to what fell on a former occasion
and not see that however necessary it may be for the
noble lord opposite to lay these papers on the table at
the :fame time there was not that energy to lay these papers
before the house that was to be expected in a matter of such
vital importance. (Hear, hear.) No doubt these papers
have been kept back in the Foreign Office, and have not
been brought forward in the state of preparation they should
have been. (Hear, hear.) I presume now we shall have these
papers brought before us in a much less time than that in
which they were promised ten minutes ago, and I hope we
shall not be disappointed. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HENNESSY said he asked the Government two
nights ago whether the papers promised as to Poland would
contain the despatch from Earl Russell to Prince Gortscha-
koff, to which great importance was attached just now at
Berlin and -Vienna for its bearing on the Danish question.
It was sent in the autumn, recalled by telegraph, altered,
and re-sent, When that despatch arrived it was understood
that Count Rechberg and M. Bismark called attention to
the declaration made by Earl Russell in his speech at Blair-
gowrie, to the effect that the dominion of Russia over Po-
land was forfeited by reason of the non-compliance of Rus-
sia with the treaty of Vienna; and the German Powersnow
state that that princip:
e would in some degree apply to the
case of Denmark. The y say that the treaty of London had
not been fulfilled by De nmark, and therefore the treats of
London was void. No wit was very important to get that
despatch, He wished to ask whether the Government would

ing have been in dealing with the Government of Japan.
(Cheers.)
Admiral WALCOTT supported the amendment, and ex-
pressed an opinion that the papers on the subject justified
him in declaring that no Mame could be imputed to Admi-
ral Kuper.
Lord R. MONTAGU argued that the Government had
no course before them but to enforce the demand for redress
for the murders and acts of violence committed by the
Japanese on flririEh subject&
Sir F. CROSSLEY lamented the great loss of life that
pad ensued from the bombardment of Kagosima, and con-
- • • etheetion of such a high-handed policy in our
"Wiled I"
e with Eastern nations. The time had
communicat;e- 'ne Foreign-office to endeavour to
arrived when it behovea •t resorting to these
uphold the honour of the country, 'crimpy...
wholesale sacrifices of human life.
Mr. LIDDELL deprecated the system of hastily con-
cluding treaties, under the guns of our ships, with nations
of whose habits, customs, and laws we had no knowledge.
How we could expect a treaty to be faithfully observed which
had been obtained under such circumstances passed his com-
prehension. Our proceedings in Japan had
_been marked
by a violence that was deeply to be deplored, and he held
that the treaty made with that country ought to be revised,
if possible, in conjunction with those who were acquainted
with the laws and customs of Japan.
Mr. KrNGLAKE reminded the house that when the
official account of the bombardment of Kagosima reached
England, Earl Russell at once wrote a dispatch to Colonel
Neale, expressive of the regret he felt at the destruction of
that town. He did not believe that the noble earl had given
an imperative order to destroy the residence of the Prince
of Satsuma, whether it were situated on a bare hill or in
a populous city; but ho hesitated not to say that our treaties
had broken up the political system of the state in Japan.
In the present state of their information with regard tp the
details of the late engagement at Kagosima, ho thought it
would be unjust to throw any blame or seeming blame upon
Admiral Kuper.
Mr. LAYARD said no one who had attended to his hon.
friend the member for Maidstone would be surprised that
he considered it his duty to submit to the house the question
which he that evening brought before them. (Hear.) His
I hon. friend's well-known sympathy with the human race
__:ev one who knew him would agree in acknowledging,
" be ready to do hire justice in feeling that he
and all wets.--
,ne auestion before the House of Com-
he was right in bring
talons. (Hear, hear',) If he could not agree in all that his
hon, friend had said, it was net sleet he could not agree
the principles which he had laid down, but in tine manner in
which he had tried to establish his facts. He entirely
agreed with his hon. friend that it was most deplorable and
deeply to be regretted that a town should be bombarded and
laid in ruins, as Kagosima was reported to 4.aye bean.
(Hear, hear.) He agreed with him, that nothing but the
greatest, the west extreme provocation could justify such a
course ; and ho entirely agreed with him that it was a ter-
rible sight id witness the condition to which the inhabi-
tants were reduced, end upon those matters there was no
difference of feeling and opinion between himself and his
hen. friend, who. ho was sure, would not charge him with
want of sympathy with Eastern nations. He (Mr. Layard)
was known to have expressed his regret ore several occa-
sions at the manner in which those races had been treated.
Now, such being the general principles laid down, let him
see whether they applied to the present instance. But be-
fore he did so he must say ho could not concur in the blame
cast upon so gallant and meritorious an officer as Admiral
Kuper. (Hear, hear.) And here he must say that it had
been too much the habit of some parties in this country to
blame officers in their absence for alleged transactions before
inquiry had taken place to ascertain whether the charges
were correct. (Hear, hear.) He must say that he did not
think Admiral Kuper could be charged with shedding
blood wantonly; and he must further say of that gallant
officer that a more humans man could not be than he had
always shown himself to be. (Hear, hear.) The hoe,
member here proceeded to draw a sketch of the relations of
this country with Japan previous to the occurrence in ques-
tion. This country wee not the first, he said, to enter into
a treaty with Japan. An American commodore was the
first, and having made the American treaty, Russia then
stepped in and made a treaty with the Japanese on her own
account. Was it, then, matter of surprise—seeing that Ame-
rica and Russia, two great commercial nations, had made
treaties to advance their commercial interests, and thus
opened up new markets for themselves—that England, on
her part, followed the example, and with a view of availing
herself of the new markets, made a treaty:of commerce with
the Japanese. (Hear, hear.) They were condemned for, and
charged with, having forced a treaty upon the Japanese,
which the authorities of Japan, it was said, had no power to
make. They understood the Tycoon to be the head autho-
rity of Japan at the time, and they entered into the treaty
with him. They ascertained that there were three parties
in Japan at the time, and that a great part of the natives were
ill-treated and kept in a state of slavery by the Daimios. Of
the three parties one of them, he understood, was known by
the name of " Toree"—(laughter)—and that party were
roost hostile in their acts and feelings against foreigners,
particularly against the Eoglish. Another of those parties
was called " Liberal 'Trees"—(laughter)—and the third
were known as the party who were for keeping to themselves
all the good places, and sticking to them. (Great laughter.)
There was also a party aho were for the maintenance of
the "connexion between Church and State." (Laughter.)
Much outrage and injustice had been committed against
foreigners, particularly those from England, and the re-
monstrances of the Government against thoseoutrageous ex-
cesses ware not attended to. It had been said that the Bri-
tish Government was unfriendly to and did not like the
Japanese. Now, so far from that being the case, they had
in this country made great concessions to the Japanese, and
not only did they do so themselves, but they actually in-
duced other Powers to make concessions to them, (Hear,
hear.) He could assure the house that in Mr. Richardson's
case neither be nor his friends were in fault. He (Mr.
Layard) was not in the habit of defending the excesses of
his countrymen; and he was sorry to say that they were
often guilty of excesses that no man ought to defend. (Hear,
hear.) In Mr. Ed hardson'e case that was not so. A most
unprovoked murder had been committed on that gentleman
and other members of his party by a number of men who
bed been set on to commit it by their leaders. Mr. Richard-
son and his party were proceeding quietly along a high road
that was open to them by treaty, and were most wantonly
and without any provocation whatever attacked. Murder
was committed, and the party, when remonstrated with,
tried to excuse themselves by saying that it was a "casual"
murder. He had never before heard of a casual murder.
A more deliberate murder, ho repeated, never was com-
mitted. The English Government remonstrated, and de-
manded satisfaction, but their remonstrances were disre-
warded, and their demand was treated with contempt. Was
it then to be a matter of surprise that they insisted upon
proper redress being given by the Japanese Government for
such an outrage ? (flear,) The Government made demands
upon the Tycoon Government and also upon Satsuma. In
the first place they demanded £1C,0,000 from the Japanese
Government—not for the murder, but for allowing the mur-
der on a road which was open by treaty, on a road on which
it was their bounden duty to protect life. (Hear.) That was
entirely irrespective of the murder. Then they had de-
manded from the person who committed the murder what
they considered to he a fair sum to be divided amongst those
who were sufferers. That sum. was £25,000. Some might
think that sum too much, others might consider it too little.
Mr. Richardson, who was murdered, was a wealthy mer-
chant, and his death was a serious blow to his family. He
did not, therefore, consider that the sum was an unreason-
able one. The other persons concerned were merchants in a
good position in life, and for them the sum demanded he
could not consider was too much. Besides that, her Ma-
jesty's Govet nment asked for the execution of those who had
been concerned in the affair. Now, it had been stated that
evening as a matter of tact, that her Majesty's Government
had asked for the execution of Satsuma's father. So far
from that being the case, they had stated over and over
again that nothing of the sort was done. In the first place,
they did not know that it was Satsuma's father who had
committed the murder. Their first impression was that it
was his uncle. (Laughter.) They asked for the trial and
punishment of the retainers of the chief who had committed
the act. If hon. gentlemen would refer to page 94 of the
Blue-book they would find that tIA Government demanded
the speedy arrest and bringing to capital punishment the men
among the Prince's retinue, and not the Princo himself.
Satsuma had stated that no order had been given for this
attack. If no order had been given them surely the Govern-
ment had a tight to ask for the punishment of those who
had committed so grave an offence without an order, and
that was all they did ask for. (Hear, hear.) He thought it
would be admitted that those demands, under the eircum-
stances, were perfectly just ; but if they had accepted the
excuse of the Tycoon, that Satsuma was beyond his power,
and that he had no control over his retainers, the Daimios,
under the shelter of that excuse, would have committed all
sorts of outrages. If, on the other hand, they had exacted
the punishment of the Daimios alone, in all future cases the
Tycoon would have said that the crimes had been perpe-
trated by the Daimios, and that they alone were responsible.
So that the Government had no alternative but to make a
double demand, and he thought that was the right course
to pursue. Was the English Government alone amongst
those who had punished the Dainties for outrages against
foreigners ? If hon. gentlemen would turn to the Blue-
book they would find that joint representations had been
made by the English, French,
Mi-
nisters, that tle y held a Prince who had fired upou a ship
responsible for that act, and would proceed to punish it if
the injury were not redressed. They did punish him by
Dutch, and American
destroying his batteries and forts. Now, Admiral Kuper,
on receiving his instructions, proceeded to cart y them out.
It had been stated that the instructions of her Majesty's
Government were not sufficiently explicit, and that it was on
that account that the admiral committed the act ho id,
and that consequently the responsibility must fall upon d
the
Government. Now, when the instructions were sent out,
her Majesty'a Government had not the slightest knowledge
of the palace in which Satsuma dwelt, or of its position.
They had heard that he had a palace near the shore, that he
was a powerful Prince, having vessels of his own, and that
the fleet could get to those vessels and carry them off. The
Government gave instructions to the admiral founded upon
this imperfect knowledge. Eearl Russell, in his instructions,
stated that he had heard that Satsuma's territory was a
peninsula, but that the admiral would be able to form a bet-
ter judgment whether it would bo possible to tako his port.

Lord STANLEY—I quite understand the reluctance 0
my hon. and gallant friend to pass any censure on persons
who, whether in a civil or military capacity, are perform-
ing a very responsible duty at a groat distance from home,
and labouring under disadvantages in respect to receiving
instructions. I share in that feeling, and I shall be glad if
I hear from the hon. gentleman the member for Southwark
(Mr. Layard) a better defence for these proceedings than
appears in the papers which have been laid before us. Ido
not intend to go again over the ground covered by the
speech of tho hon. member for Maidstone ; but I will call
' the attention of the house to one or two points, and I will
do so in order that an answer may be given by the Under-
Secretary. Ido not understand what justification can be
alleged for the double claim made by her Majesty's Go-
vernment—first, the dales made on the Tycoon ; and next,
that made on the Prince of Satsuma. I could understand
either if the other were not put forward. (Hear, hear). I
could understand your treating the Prince as entirely inde-
pendent, and then your course might be obvious, You
might have applied to the Tycoon in the first instance, and
if he replied, "I cannot punish the Prince of Satsuma,"
you might have said, " Then we give you fair notice that
we shall take the affair out of your hands and punish
him ourselves." But if the Prince of Satsuma is re-
sponsible for the murder, then this demand of £lOO,OOO
from the Tycoon, who is not responsible, who did not
order the murder, and could not have prevented it, is
simply 'unjustifiable. (Hear, hear.) On the other hand,
if the Prince of Satsuma is to be treated as a subject, no
doubt we have a right to come on the Government of Japan
for compensation; but then we ought to leave it to the
Government to settle matters with the Daimio. (Hear,
hear.) But the responsibility of the one, from the nature
of the cae e, seems to exclude the responsibility of the other,
and therefore those who have conducted the negotiations
on the part of this country have put us in the wrong. It
also appears to me that the amount of the demand is altoge-
ther exorbitant and excessive, No doubt it is very painful
end difficult to have to value human life; but one can only
juelje of what would be done if such a case occurred in
Europe, If the murder of a British subject took place un-
der anything like similar circumstances in a European
country, you would insist on the punishment of the offen-
der, and demand compeneatien ; but it appears to me that
you would not do anything analogous to what you have
done in this case by demanding £lOO,OOO from the Tycoon,
who was not responsible for the murder, and making a
further demand of £25,000 of the Prince of Satsuma, whom
you hold to have been responsible. (Hear.) There is ano-
ther point to which I think the house ought to look. The
hon. member for Maidstone spoke of the inhumanity of
those proceedings. I look at the matter in another way,
and say that their impolicy is greater than their inhu-
manity. (Hear.) You know the Tycoon is in great diffi-
culty between the Daimios and the foreign merchants and
diplomatists. You have, then, to deal with a Government
which may be taken to be neutral between the two ; you
have the great chiefs, who undoubtedly are hostile to
foreigners; and, lastly, yon have the people, of whom we
we do not know whether or not they share the preju-
dice of the chiefs against foreigners, but who, at all
events, have nothing to lose by the country being open
to foreigners, and may have a great deal to gain. I think
it clear, then, that your policy ought to be to lesson the in-
fluence of the Daimios on the people, and to conciliate the
latter. (Hear, hear.) lam afraid your proceedings in
reference to this murder will have a contrary effect. All
they will know about the affair is that the foreigners have
had a quarrel with the chiefs end do,troyed a town. That
will place the Daimios in the position of being the natural
protectors of the people, whereas your object ought to be to
separate those two classes, and to show the natives that
though you may take a part against the chiefs, you do so in
the interest of the people. (Hear, hear.) lam afraid it
will be a long time bolore the impression created in the
minds of the people by those proceedings will be obliterated.
I also think it is very questionable whether what you have
done will have very much effect on the chiefs. I do not
say anything as to the destruction of batteries, because as
you treated the Prince of Satsuma as an independent per-
son no objection could be taken to your destroying his forts ;
but when your doing that involved the destruction of a
town, it is another matter. I do not expect that much moral
effect will be produced on the Daimios by such an opera-
tion as that. It reminds me of the story of an Irish ab-
sentee landlord whose agent sent him over a threatening
letter which he had received. The landlord, in reply, said
" Tell those fellows they are great fools if they think that
by shooting you they will intimidate me." (Much laughter.)
I very much fear that the same is the case with the Daimios.
They are not likely to be intimidated by punishments which
fall on the people. (Hear, hear.) You will not frighten the
class on whom you wish to make an effect, but you will
make enemies of the class whom you want to have your
friends. (Haar, hear.) In these same papers I see a trams-
action, of the same date, which bears on this case. It seems
that in October of last year there was a good deal of anxiety
felt among the traders because the trade in silk was falling
off. What was the reason of this falling off? Col. Neale,
writing to the Japanese Minister, says :
" The matter respecting the restricted arrivals of silk being
now well known to be caused by no accident or want of the
material, but by a systematic arrangement of a few of the
principal silk dealers, or monopolisers, at Yeddo ; great un-
easiness and alarm prevail among the mercantile community
of Yokohama."
Upon that assumption, because those dealers in silk at
Yeddo aro doing that which dealers in Manchester and
Liverpool sometimes do—because they are holding back
produce for high prices—(hear, hear)—our representative
writes a very peremptory letter, and the Japanese Govern-
ment is called upon to explain. (Hear, hear.) That is not
the way you would act towards any European Government.
That letter throws light upon whatever may be doubtful in
other transactions, and shows what !our feelings and hear-

The Government did not even know that there was a large .
1 tish fl t • -----
ee in tlaose waters which brought recent troubles fo - ' ''
' recollect the eircuna
town there. (Laughter.) He was at a loss to understand 1 a peaceful conclusion, (Cheers.) '1 his was the recommen- this incident. But the house must recollee
that action the town was set on ITre arld----we dolly
There was
why hon. gentlemen laughed. He repeated that in England danon of the - •
rep. esentative of a power which followed the stanees under which the action took plac .
t - übled
there was no knowledge of that town. The fleet arrived ' firing in a "
edpolicy rerommended by the hon. member for Northumber• a violent gale. The ships wore
hen You bay
there on the 11th, and cast anchor at thetentrance oi the land. "
That Minister's house was burned, and no notice taken Hee, It is one thing to fire at an object w
.8 _
very
port., Next day they went further and anchored before the of the matter by the authorities, and now he was compelled your gun upon a fixed platform, as on shore; ituli: i'll 'it
town. What was the first thing the Japanese did ? They to admit that the American policy was a false one, and that different thing to fire. at an object when year gun
it hips
invited Admiral Kuper and Colonel Neale to go on shore to ' went it shifts
invited tuns the only one by which peaceful ship rolling in the waves, when at every
in
not the Point at
conduct negotiations with them. Many gentlemen who had° relations. could be established with Japan. (General ap- its position, and when the aim you take is.
a violent
great confidence in the Japanese might think that they to
probation,) Were the to do as the Dutch did ? They gro- which the shot strikes. When in addition
action,
1 think
ought to have done so ; but Admiral Kuper and Colonel yelled on their bellies. Did they prosper? No, their posi- storm they had the smoke and heat of
that the allot
Neale thought they had better not run any risk of being led tion became so intolerable that they were obliged to give up the house will see it was impossible to be surehe 0
a. A.,
into a trap, and very wisely declined the invitation. (Hear.) their trade' e (Hear.) Our agents were the beetjudges of would not go over the batteries and fall into t tsy
Probability
the
Tore!
On the following day a person calling himself a chief with what should be done. Our trade, in consequence of the my hon. friend has stated, in all human pr their
his retainers, approached Admiral Kuper's ship and asked course was • ' • d notice to quit .
adopted rapidly increasing, and of the £7,000,000 population of that town had receive welch-
to,be allowed to come on board. There could not be a moral and • the houses
'enht that these persons, having little knowledge of the ar- more invested in mercantile Pursuits in Japan, more habitations, and very few of them were in
at Jed°
estions arose . .
nee. than half that amount was (Hear.,' A
u attempt were burnt. We know that when qu
of hostile ge-
rangements of ate. lenglieh man-of-war, thought they could had been made to interfere withßritish.
the
on silk trade, but in con- and other places it was recognised as a signthat
the JaPanea.'
capture the ship by a coup kmain, and when the Japanese sequence of the firm re resentati of
lCol.. Neale the Go- tentions on the part of the Governmentthetown,
and there is
official found that he was outwitted he became speechless, vernment removed the representations
and went off with great rapidity. No doubt these were two lations with Japan were purely commercial,compain
od of. Our re- population quietlyh disappeared.il from the
was
given to tiro
attempts to entrap the Bntieb. officers; the first to entrap to carry out tho views of the hon. gentleman (Mr. 13cr: washo eveeoryleroeafson Kagosima,to hope
atnhdatthinanat
very i
few were in their hous. ea.
built _
the officers on shore, and the second to capture the ship. below the gangway. (Laughter.) If that hon. gentleman,g people
th t 1 took 1 Towns inJapanare ht
when econ agrationp ahe.
is
known that thew
All this time the batteries were being manned. Colonel instead of making • • in
Neale, finding that it was no nee to withhold any longer endeavour to impress moderation on his hearers, and advise islands are subject to frequent and severe earthatlaae'' ate.
ordered Admiral Kuper to take possession of the ships them to give the Government credit for better' intentions, people cannot, dare nonbuild their houses of solid wane)
belonging to Satsuma, and, the Admiral did every- he would he much more useful. (Hear.) From what he rials, lest the shock of the earthquake should bring per,
thing he could to carry out his instructions with the leest (Mr. Layard) knew of the East he believed that most of down. They are built of wood, of bamboos, as d ofP
Wei
the harshness. 4 statement had eppeaned in some of ' our difficulties there were created by the British traders, which yield to the oscillations of an earthquelee• The neogi
the papers which he regretted to find the hon, member for A host of traders rushed into every market, 'and they eon- pie in which our Legation was housed at the timd
ata
Birmingham (Mr. Bright) had endorsed, that after captitr- sidered that the Government had nothing to de but to su - that murderous attack was made upon them ha ono
fng the ships Admiral Kuper needlessly kepe them fora port them in their preposterous Ft te u P • •membersof the Leg
e-nneenes. -Le could not paper partitions, and when the
__, wow
the Ja anese The truth
long time under the eyes of p , was, agree .
with-the terms of the motion, If the hon. gentleman were drawn up in one room they thought. therasetve° ear,
that the admiral could not have taken the vessels out of the Admiral that
withdrew the words casting au imputation on their assailants did ' through the 1'.....
esages from
bay without passing under the fire of the batteries. feo
, far Kuper, we had no opportunity of defending himself, he titions, instead of winding. along the tortuous Passe hat the
from the admiral haying, kept the vessels Ruder the eyes of (Mr. Layard) would not oppose the motion, but ifwhich ' - d lay then tee on
not he they were nenmately eapelle .
say then
the japaneee in of'der to draw down their fire, he took them would move the previous question. (Hear, hear,) burning of th town was not the result of any .
,_, toe
Gideon" be
as far as possible to the opposite side of the bay. No sooner ' Sir J. ELPHINSTONE supported the a 'e
mendment. the pa*' of Admiral Kuper, but was merely in
begun '
were the vessels taken than the Japanese opened fire. He Mr. W. E. FORSTER believed, the destruction of that '
action 1'
which was not brought on by us, but was .
ee,_ in
did not deny that the Japanese had a perfect right to do so, city was intentional, and ventured to prophesy that - 'hen the Jp , and u on which the Admiral could:deo,
but what he did deny wee, that it was the duty of the British t4e eoaPatione came trope the ether side the - intaofahnoeneeour andpof duty, refrain from entering .d that ott
only feeling
admiral tc allow himself to be fired upon without eetterieleg would be one of astonishment that we ',lad
ever expected ptuernin the fire of the batteries. (Hear.) It is said that
to de
ver expecte
it. If he had done sell whet wontd have been the result ? anything else than what had be ened the nextg day he shelled the castle, and it was his e'a'si ion,
va-PP . The idea of shel-
There would have been a ery throughout the whole of 4anan ling the Prince a ree'elence eO. The object was to teach the Daimio bunnyers°..eriece
that our fleet had been defeated, our settlements would have at home, who ought `, known
suggestedatitwould
h the Minister
een sthat he and his retainers were not with impit
andrst for
o have knos
been plundered, and probably every foreigner ill the coon- I almost ire:
possible to do that without burning the town. the lives of British subjects. It was proper
.„,e, of tila
try would have been murdered. (Hear.) It was. then, the ' .
me thought, however, the house should not endeavour to Admiral Kuper to direct his shells againat the et‘eee'lia ere
clear duty of the admire' to return the fire. The he/Leanne apportion the blame, but content itself with a simple ex- Daimio, but that does not show that he directed
leat voa
bar for Wakefield had stated t4qt 4 would have been inapos- pression of regret ; and he recommended Mr. Bunton to as- against what remained of the town ; and the v' , /Wel'
ration
or.
siblo for Admiral Kuper to have returned the fire without sent to the amendment. which prevailed naturally spread the conflag
raster p tt
burning the town, and upon the high authority of that gel- The ATTORNEY-GENERAL defended the conduct had begun, and probably extended it over the !regret the
that w
seritireast ~r
lent gentleman he was content to rest the etdinirill'a excul- of the Government, and its political and military agents, in of the town. We are called upon to say
petiole. It had been Said that shells had been threw, in the reference to the unhappy calamity that had befallen the result. Well, Sir, we entirely concur with the .
none
formai'. e,
town, but nothing was saidabout such a circumstance in the city of Kagosima. but it has been already expressed in the most
a, the or!
reports. nor was anything said about bombardment, with the Mr, wHITESIDE attached the entire blame to the in the Speech of her Majesty's Conamissioners ' teed Is
d rer ted
r . adopted a° ddlese a°
red
of the eepond nety,when hells Were thrown in Foreign secretary, upon whose instructions the city had ing of the Session, and has been
palace of Satsuma. On the first day no shell was thrown been bombarded. The question at issue was, whether this the most formal manner by this house ih the an house t.egGe
into the town; on the contrary, the return of the fire from country itself intended to practise those principles of hums- in reply to that Speech. It is not usual for erth'ipoil los De;
the batteries led to the firing of the town. Teet Ilan. plem- nit y which it was ever so ready to advise all other nations on repeating in a less formal manner that weear.) Ile-oe
berg eoneider what a Japanese town really was. It was to adopt. If we maintained such acts as had been done in more formally expressed before. (Hear,
eundraent whi 3
built simply of thin laths and paper—very little timber this case our laurels would be tarnished, and in vain should fore, I say, reducing the motion by the am be agreed tetsee
indeed. Fires were constantly occurring in these towns, we represent ourselves to the world as the most humane has been moved, and which, no doubt, willeag
.tion of
0..
The people constantly lived in fear of life, and were always people on the face of the earth. is reduced to two points—regret at the con r''
t of tocolo isiiito
ready to move, He had spoken with several officers on the Lord PALMERSTON—The right hon. and learned gen- town, and an opinion that the bombardment,
_.„,,0. cent
_0
subject, being anxious to ascertain the truth on the point, tleman said that there was one point which had not been consistent with the usual practice of war
say ads
irlll
and he fetend that pme in Japanese towns:were the commonest adverted to by my lion, and learned friend—viz., the double (arca-
other
nations. Having disposed of the regret by'baasY av
possible occurrences, The officials had four days' notice of demand which has been made in Japan. Now, Sir, it is un- entirely partake of it, and that this house
notice the o.steir
the operations against them, and during that time they were necessary to travel over ground which was so ably gone formal manner expressed that feeling, I wituof totes' 1e of
preparing to attack the British fleet. If, therefore, the over by my hon. friend the Under Secretary, and my hon. point—the assertion that the bombardm sin tiolwitja.
people suffered injury, it was the duty of the officials to and learned friend the Attorney-General. But I must say, consistent with the practice of civilised nationt
consistent beets
war. That assertion is not correet—it is no
es meiegeo,
warn them to remove, and he had every reason to believe in the first place, that the treaty with Japan was in my
they did so. It was possible that there was loss of life there. opinion a wise and useful arrangement. (Hear, hear.) I be- truth. There are innumerable instances of terrted, and I.iseste
If so, no one more sincerely tteplored it than himself ; sieve I may appeal to the other side to bear me out in that bombarded. Some have been already menti_i „assieg '3, -
but, at the same time, it would be some consolation to think (Hear, hoar.) It was concluded with the treaty-making a list of many others. History and records of ee tio 010_4
that the loss of life was very small indeed amongst the power of that country. Although there is a division of autho- show that the practice of bombarding toWtn
assert
testaree
peaceable inhabitants. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Layard) rity in Japan, there being a spiritual chief, the Mikado, as is unfortunately not unusual. Therefore, to War or at;
had resided some time in a town which was peculiarly liable well as the Tycoon, yet there is no doubt whatever that the practice is inconsistent with the usual practice f t
to the ne
cif'.
to fires; he meant Constantinople. In that town there was Tycoon is the treaty-making and governing power, and civilised nations would be directly contrary
_awe °f ana
a fire almost every month, consuming as many residences ae that was admitted by the Prince of Satsuma iu a converse- scribed as historical records. I lament theaprr.;lo,eoBl3:olo
at Kagosima, although the area over which they extended Lion with Col. Neale, in which he said, "The Tycoon was Heed nations has been such ; I think it is desirable
asbstaine.d,stlive
was not so great, as the houses were higher. In Constan- to blame when he made that treaty for not having inserted not imitate it, and it is not our practice. w_lsaa table:, tee
tinople a fire raged with extraordinary rapidity, destroying in it a clause giving to Daimios exclusive possession of the it in the Russian war, as in the case of Yu`n.e'atil weep
many houses in the course of a few hours, and yet he never roads in which they might make their processions." (Hear, knew contained magazines of variou.s kind: eee fro:007;4
heard of a single loss of life by fire there. The people lived hear.) Well, that treaty has been in force now for several supply of the Russian army; but we abet ineue,e teeeree
ing Odessa, which was not a fortified town, sea
°f this eotos;f
in constant readiness to move, 'and loss of live from fire was years, we have appealed to it in cases in which we consi-
consequently hardly known. These considerations led him dered its provisions not duly carried out, and it has never would not be in accordance with the feelingic:the ere
tiYaso
to hope that few lives of innocent persons were lost at been urged in reply that it was not binding because it had to attack an undefended town, even to deP,restiie oforae to
stores which would be useful to him for nes posittstiott
Kagosima. No doubt there was a considerable loss of life not received the sanction of the Mikado. (Hear, hear.)
amongst the retainers of the Daimio. They fought against Therefore, I dismiss altogether the doubts as to the bind- against us. Denying entirely the truth ot 1:11 the Pile to
the British fleet, they manned their batteries, and they in-
g nature of the treaty as having been made only by the the bombardment of towns is at variance ev'erifeetv reeoraten
consequently ran all the risks which men engaged in war Tycoon. I think no man can doubt that British subjects, of civilised nations in time of war, I am,!seprove, I beer.)
were bound to run, but of the quiet peaceable inhabitants both officials and private merchants, having been subjected agree that it is a practice of which we cli7 afear,,,teelf.
and certainly are not disposed to follow•anteniee' hair
he very much doubted whether any, or a very few, at all to repeated acts of outrage, attempted and perpetrated in
Therefore, I cannot accept the truth of the . oh
testasrivie
events, met their death. On the second day it was neces- Japan, it would have been unbecoming, unfitting, and cri-
Ido accept the meaning and spirit upon %t o. frie.eabste,
sary, according to the admiral's view, to destroy the palace urinal in the British Government to allow those outrages
ment is made. (Hear.) I should hope my it, this awilielt
of Satsuma. Could ho, after the destruction of the pro- tepees unpunished without demanding reparation or redress.
be satisfied with the tone which has prevailed
erotica ne of
party of the poor, leave the palace of the chief malefactor We should have been exposing our fellow-subjects in Japan,
No one, I think, has maintained that it is roe parett:oe
untouched? He (Mr. Layard) thought not, and the admiral resorting thither under the stipulations of the treaty, to the
ought to be followed to bombard towns for..coraeateatbe re•
very properly threw shells into the palace. There was no murderous caprice of these Daimios and their retainers,
destroying the houses and property of non.. 000040'
proof that shells went into the town. It might be assumed who, as my hon. friend stated, exercised such undisputed
innocent persons but nobody can deny hat
ael !oaf
that they did, but there was not the slightest evidence of sway in the country that when they purchased a new sword
suit of a conflict between attacking forces outsideont.teseera•
the fact. The hon. gentleman the member for Maidstone and want to try the edge, they sally forth into the streets
ing forces inside, it is one of those incidental eSsaelo Ton
(Mr. Buxton), in the early part of his speech, said that he and cut down the first person they meet there. It was ne-
would call evidence in support of his views, and he (Mr. cessary, therefore, for the ascot' :y of • y ourfellow-subjects andwhich among the calamities attaching te atistie. ne
are
nlbe e IP'
Layard) thought that he would have called witnesses of the honour of the country that satisfaction should be de- times. Therefore I hope my hon. friend aeo- is for el ~heioet
some standing. The first was a picture in the Illustrated mended for these outrages. But then lam asked, " Why having obtained an admission of the PrinciPtion to could bea
News, Now, he did not wish to say anything against that have you demanded satisfaction both from the Tycoon's contends, and not be disposed to press his In°
and it ,eet 0
as it would be surplusage to express regre,:eorabarcamea tee
admirable paper. Those who were in the secret would en- Government and from the Daimio, by whose retainers
contrary to historical fact to say that the
•Das. 1 119 t ne.
tertain doubts whether that paper had on board the Euryalus these particular outrages were committed ?" The fact was
towns is not practised among civilized nett°o to al lei,
a correspondent who witnessed the town of Kagosima in this—there was a double default. (Hear.) The Tycoon's
amendment is disposed of I should protersy, toe: oiog
flames. Then another portion of evidence on which he Government were bound to give security to British subjects
motion with the previous question ; but
o'Ltio ectost,oicit
relied was a statement which had appeared in the Aylesbury within the range of their authority. This outrage was com-
woad withdraw it, I think it would
no, toper 0
papers. Now, he had a great respect for the Aylesbury meuced within the range of their authority. It was commit- of
termination of a discussion the tone o•43.serse
vords
papers, but he could not take evidence second-hand from red upon the road called the Tokaido, which hed been ex-
must have been satisfactory to him. (`'
site tho 2,4,05
their columns, the hon. gentleman himself not having seen pressly assigned for the use of British subjects, in order h
the paper from which his information was derived, that they might take their exercise there without molesta- Mr. BUXTON expressed his desire,
ore",
of oit e'
regret which had fallen from the noble' a of°
Mr. BUXTON—It was the statement of a sailor who was Lion. It was the duty of the Tycoon's Government, if they I lib
his motion. osa ,
an eye-witness of what he described. knew that a body of the Daimio's retainers were going in this Pre')
The house, however, dissented from t"-
name, Mr. LAYARD—WeII, he should like to know the sailor's procession along the road on a given day, and if they knew
a rtee""-
name, or what authority there was for the statement. In and expected that any meeting between the procession and uPen _coil. e
the absence of that information he preferred to take the British subjects might lead to violence, I say it was their Lord PALMERSTON moved the pre 5
eareeer
The house then divided. The number we
.. 5
statement of a British Admiral. (Hear, hear.) What he duty in such a case to have stationed guards upon the road
.. .... 164
had now stated was a short history of what took place at in order to protect Europeans. (Hear, hear.) We are there- Ayes
Kagosima. The house would now perhaps allow him for a fore justly entitled to require from the Tycoon's Government Noes .............
ant •• "
few moments to call attention to the motion of his hon. a sum sufficient to operate as a fine upon them for not afford- Majority for the Governor,
friend. As regarded Admiral Kuper's judgment there was ing proper protection to British subjects in a place in which The original motion therefore dropPeae A eVS. ,to
APPEAL IN CRIMINAL tee" s.a ewe,
no wish on the part of the Government to cast blame upon our countrymen were entitled to be. (Hear.) We were also leave w • elei tlie
him. On the contrary, it was the duty of the Govern- entitled to demand the punishment of the retainers who had On the motion of Sir F. KELLY. lin 000 ti of
ment to srpport him, because he was entitled to support. committed the outrages. Butt he Tycoon's Government said troduce a bill providing a further aPPes,ninistrah°
It was asked why the Government had not given him the "We are unable to afford this redress. These Daimios are and for the further amendment cf the sale
same honorary distinctions which they had conferred upon so powerful, that they defy our authority. We cannot get criminal law.
Colonel Neale. The distinctions given to Colonel Neale you satisfaction; if you want it you must go to the Daimio
were not on account of what took place at Kagosima, but and get it yourself." Then we demanded, in the first place
for the judgment and tact which he had displayed in satisfaction from the Government for their fault in not taking
conducting most difficult negotiations. Why they were not those precautions which they might have taken, and which
conferred upon Admiral Kuper was because there had been it was their duty to take ; and we demanded satisfaction from
for a time a strong feeling in the country. (Hear, hear, the Daimio whose retainers committed the outrage by which
from the Opposition benches.) Her Majesty's Government a British subject had so grievously suffered. And really,
thought it only reasonable Admiral Kuper should be enabled when we are told by the hon. member who moved the amend .
to give explanations, and he had no doubt some explana- ment that this was:a sort cf chance medley, a casual encoun-
tions would bo perfectly satisfactory. It would be unwise ter, which was below notice on the part of the British Go-
and ungenerous to pass such a resolution as this, which vernment, Ido not think we should have been justified, and
would be tantamount to a vote of censure, before those ex- lam sure the nation would not have thought us justified, in
planations could be received. He had no doubt about the holing the lives of British subjects so cheap. (Hear, hear,)
explanations, and that it would be shown that Admiral Sir, I cannot compliment the hon, member upon the good
Kuper would not have burnt down the town if he could have taste he showed in that part of his speech. (Hear.) Well,
avoided it. Then it had been insinuated that her Majesty's then,satisfaction was demanded and satisfaction was granted
Government had felt no regret at this occurrence. The first by the Tycoon's Government, who consented to pay the sum
think they did on hearing the news was to write a despatch we required. But Prince Satsuma refused. Were we
in which they expressed their regret. That regret had been to submit to his refusal, or compel him to give us that
embodied in the Queen's Speech, had been re-echoed by the redress to which we were so justly entitled ? I say that we
house, and deeply felt throughout the country.
_Not only should have failed in our duty if we had not resorted to the
had they expressed regret, but her Majesty's Government means which were at our disposal for the purpose of come
had done everything they could to prevent a recurrence of pelting this brutal Daimio to give us satisfaction for the
purpose
such disasters. (The hon. gentleman read extracts from outrage. (Hear, hear.) It was not simply for the
the despatches in proof of the assertion.) Not only had her of punishing him—it was for the purpose of deterring others
Majesty's Government and the house expressed their regret from these murders, and were so frequently attempted, and
for what had occurred, but every precaution had been taken which had in some cases unfortunately been actually wro-
te prevent such a calamity in future. The resolution said mitted. (Hear, hear.) Why, the attack upon our L
that what had been done was "contrary to those usages of tion, the murder of two sentries at the door of the - eation
egs-
war which prevail among civilised nations." Legation would van- on another occasion—both of those atrocities. '
were committed
ture to say that this was not so. It was not contrary to by the retainers of Daimios who Were sp e ally employed by
the usages of war to bombard a town provided with batte- the Tycoon's Government to protect ecithe y people whom
ries as a means of defence against ships brought into col- they so barbarously attacked and, in some" oases, murdered.
lision with it. The case was otherwise where a town had It was necessary for the protection of British subjects that
no defences. We did not in the Crimean war bombard these Dairaios should be taught that although they might
Odessa because it had no batteries to attack our fleet.fleet.Of set at defiance the authority of the Tycoon, they could not
towns that had been bombarded by civilised nations he with impunity commit outrages upon
British
subjects.
might mention Algiers, which was bombarded in 1816, (Hear, hear.) Akmiral Kuper wastherefot e ordered, in
Ant,verp in 1830, Beyrout by the Turkish fleet, Acre in case redress was refused, to use force in order' to obtain it.
1840 by the English, and Barcelona, by the Spanish Go- My noble friend at the head of the Foreign-office gave in-
vernment. The French bombarded Tangiers, a peaceful structions net simply on his own authority,l but instructions
town, and the private property of the Emperor of Morocco, sanctioned by the Government, and for which
take as full
and allowed the Rabyle barbarians to come down upon it a responsibility as any that can attach to him,
and' sack it. Rome was bombarded in June and July, 1848, entirely approved at the time, I entirely (Hear.)
Ive now, aPPro of
and in 1854 the Americans bombarded Greytown and the course which my noble friend took • , and I say that it
burned it to the ground. Here there were no batteries to was the only course which was consistent
with his duty as
protect the town, yet the ships fired on it. In defence of a Minister of the Crown, and as representing the interests
this conduct the President of America said the arrogant of this country abroad. (Hear, hear.) Did my noble friend
contumacy of the inhabitants left no alternative but to break say "Go and burn a defenceless
town
up their establishments, or leave them Under the impres H admiral left it to the discretion of the ?"
No such thing. either to blockade
sion that they might pursue a career of lawlessness and the town and port belong ing to Prince Satsuma, or to de-
plunder. What was taking place now in America ? Charles- stroy his forts and his castle if that could be easily done.
his ton was being bombarded. (Hear.) That town had batte- Admiral Kuper performed duty as a British officer
ries, certainly, but then the Federals were constantly throw. ought to perform it. He did not begin an attack upon the
ing Greek fire and missiles into the town, We heard of forts. He demanded satisfaction,
women and children being killed there, yet some persons days with the envoys ofPrince and parleyed for two
justified this mode of assault. (Disapprobation.) These friend (Mr. Layard) aid, they Satsuma. As my hon.
bombardments were not merely carried on by sea. Last first to inveigle him and ey twice tried by acts of treachery
year we heard of the bombardment of Port Jackson, and pretty well what would Colonel Neale ashore, and we know
the New Vorle papers described, with apparent satisfaction, next to surprise the Vessel, have happened to them there ; and
how the houses and public buildings were destroyed. eon to bring 40 e and take it by asking permis-
(Hear, hear.) That was justified. (Opposition cheers.) He given, but a armed retainers on board. This leave was
quoted these cases to prcve that civilised nations considered opposite to them,party of marines of equal force was ranged
the bombardment of towns as coming within the usages of embark in theirl and then they thought it better to re.
war. (Hear, hear.) When our ships were fired on at which they had oat, without cagy:nag out the object for
co
rue it was our duty to return the fire. (Hear.) negotiate 1p? prepared. After two days spent in
No British admiral could avoid doing so. (Hear, hear.) steatnerl3 Admiral Kuper sent to take possession of the
Tn this affair the papers would show that the admiral's yielded to by way of reprisal, and if Prince Satsuma had
conduct had met with -the approval of the French. It was released, our demands those steamers would have been
stated that the English had not been sufficiently concilia- to the town.'and no harm would have been done to his forts or
tory. The papers showed that the Americans had suffered session f But while these steamers were in the pos-
severely by being too conciliatory. In the papers laid before squadroo oulr ships the forts opened fire upon the British
Congress the American Minister at Japan said, " I have not maintain h trust there is no man in this house who will
been anxious until recently for the presence of a naval force, ron is Ltd at, when a British admiral commanding a squad-
but my opinion has undergone a great change," and then he turn the fireat by a foreign battery, it is not his duty to ree
recommended the sending a naval force to Japan as neces- not to ' and to teach the enemy that British ships are
sary for some time to preserve to the world what had been Admiralhe insulted and attacked with impunity. Well, then,
Kuper
gained. He stated also that it was the presence of the Dd. that hi was compelled to burn the steamers, in order
0 ships might be free for action, In the course of

t
stance the same as heco:4o
had
GOREiiitroodb fus:cionale,dll:ol.eies
to
~,._
iti 1 1 .
Leave w
oasitgmivsenwße 0 1' air
Mr.
W.
OF bill 1755 od 11
DtioEnGoACfliThEUßasCirried leave toSiintroclac 0
trusted the house id A
a bill to amend the
would uoTl
bringdi
TRESPASS
allowE spinAhtsihmse t(lo3lE,liin.
vt r
1.
jo
AND),uc ei. ' tr 0 u
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law of trespass in certv..—
land.

CHAIN CABLESQUER, AND .111"..- 'sill for •
resolve intowaacsoobtained leave to introduce a " Aare.
the proving and sale of chain cables sod gill A$
-
eitmotion of the OHANCELLOE of _,..oaf
BANK ACT (SCOTLAND). 41,- L
the.P OS"
On the motion
committee, and
onoraromdfeirtmetedentehnatththeeßheonneotuoTf h;co.ooch
to
SUPPLY. A 611
F. BELL, the 1101/-:oje. • '
agreed to a vote of supplY to her -f, ,el
SIR JOHN LAWRENCE'S, SAJAP ele
an WI
The report on this subject was agreed to, —ci a
bg in the bill. o'cl°A
toTrin house djour t elle
.......nd e- at ten minutes Past 3
to
-------- 91' 0
[ADVERV ,:114 .., viee id
,SEMENT.I —Holloway's J:<.,, tile "lig
chetr) '
.ess, indeed, is the present season, 1"`; ja r°, eo
deaths are far above the average. The eati,!,,,Te 12ech-lieo
diffused through the dull, damp fogs whiea '',l //hie" tlie
prevalent of late. These pills purify the bi°° tone te 04
been contaminated by foul gases, and gi.v° gotrio toe
nervous system, whereby typhus, hYPlleta are eii4 of
bilious fevers are warded off. Holloway'e P"" en.alste„ta,
best known promoters of digestion, the surest ficoelno
the liver, and tho most valued and effective of at'ite flee
When the health is impaired with loss of a4'e re;toli'
and sleep, this medicine will be found a cart
and •
will rarely fail to effiet a cure. .-7
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MS
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Births.
Esq., of a son.
FENwrex._ frotteseif
wtilicek,9Ethsign.:sti at J 3
Itutlancl'gtltrn tll°_hitio,
KELSEL—On the 9th inst., at Pa„o.e.greeFattaio 1.
tl,of a son.
late of Clapham-Park, the ?rife of 338°J 113°
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daughter of Sir Dixon,l.oert lirisco, Bart"
Cumberland. . t at ,- °,.rioteco;
Church, Enniskerr Jones lgurpaY, hor of ,
law, to Mary JosYop' bine eldest danir
Hon. Mr. Justice lieogh;l3ushey-14:"'
, 01
Deaths. 1301,
ter Will. 11.413
BE AL tl3°'
.--On the 6th inst., at Bell° ' Stri
late of Exeter, aged 56. as Da'''' 0f
titO
DAws.—On the 7th inst., r. Thotu COP
Hotel, Jermyn-street, aged 60. .4.0,0.c/114P .4
HypsoN..—On the Bth in at yri1,,u.4., Tied 63,
et, tm
George Isaac Hudson, late 11.11,.1.1" '.. wooPo elf
-00
LycioN.—On the sth inst., at 12, TIPP rge
Lacy Louisa Lygen. .4_ Greet COO A
LITTLE.—On the SL inst., at 0-.,
abed 6l. t ollity
Berniondse Thomas Little, Vitgl" ivieopor f P jo
MEWNiDliSiaefl3ll.Yili:l3lBl,
aingSedt. corral looter
,s4a.t Stoke, .creti
surbitolb 'sireoto
THyNNE.—On the 7th inst., teorge'stree4
Thynne, Esq., of 11, Great ,fir
aged 59. i4°°‘‘,,/,l‘l'
.------------, .... O.A._ ,„.... DI , i•dif
dDi 'V'ti 1 i °P'l"- ,10 .
London: Prin:ed and Pr'- a. „,,0 a t.,, cf
of No. 112, Strand,
Strand, in the Precinct °rhroary 10, 16°
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