The Sun.
London, England, 1864-08-05 00:00:00

LIVERPOOL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE,

The half-yearly meeting of the Liverpool Chamber of
Commerce was held yesterday afternoon. Mr. Grainger
presided, and there were present Lord Stanley, Mr T. B.
Horsfall, M P., Messrs. Hey worth, Macfie, dec.
Letters of apology for non-attendance were read from Mr
J. C. Ewart, M.P., Mr Brumley Moore. M,P., and the
Mayor of Liverpocl.
The report, which detailed operations of the council of
the Chamber upon moat of the commercial questions which
have arisen during the past half-year, was taken as read.
The CHAIRMAN said that in deference to the Chamber
the Council had studiously avoided all party questions,
though not avoiding those coming within the range of poli-
tical economy, drawing the line as nearly as possible be-
tween where theory was likely to become practice, and
where it remained theory only.
Mr HORSFALL moved the adoption of the report. He said
there were several subjects mentioned therein to which he
should feel it his duty to refer. He rejoiced much that the
Board of Trade was negotiating a treaty with Peru. If
the Board of Trade communicated more frequently
with the mercantile interests, the treaties adopted and sanc-
tioned by Government would be much more beneficial to
the country, and the Board of Trade would be enabled to
obtain that practical information which would be invaluable
to them in negotiating these treaties, With reference to the
consolidation of Customs and Inland Revenue establish-
ments a deputation had waited on Lord Palmerston, and
after a long delay he (Mr Horsfall) had learnt from the
Chancellor of the Exchequer that Government did not see
their way clear to the granting of a commission as sought
by this chamber. They were, however, convinced that the
consolidation of Customs and Inland Revenue was founded
on true principles, and he was sure the time was not far dis-
tant when it would be accomplished. He then referred to
the present inaccuracy of the Customs and Inland Revenue
returns made to Parliament, and quoted instances. With
reference to the bill for the collection of taxes, he had sup-
ported it until the introduction of a clause providing that
London should be exempted from the restrictions placed on
other towns. After that he opposed it strongly before com-
mittee, but was defeated. When the bill came on for third
reacting he opposed it again and the house rejected it. With-
out the objectionable clause he thought the bill was a very
beneficial ono. With reference to the Railway Companies'
Powers Bill he supported the views of the chamber, though
opposed to those of Lord Stanley. MK Horsfalt proceeded to
detail his action in regard to the Partnerships Bill. With
respect to the rates of railway carriage to and from Liverpool
he explained the difficulties he had had to encounter in oh
taining returns desired by this chamber of the rates charged
by each railway company. He first gave notice two sessions
ago, but only four companies furnished the returns. He had
repeated the order forthwith with a similar result, and then
on the 7th June last gave a final notice that they be fur-
nished by the Tuesday next following. At the last moment
came the draught of a petition against the order by the
Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Company. His turn
fur moving the returns did not come on until half-past
2 o'clock, and while the vice-chairman of the board of
directors of the London and North-Western Railway was
replying, Mr Brumley Moore and the railway directors had
the house counted out. This Chamber simply wanted to
be satisfied that in the charges for carriage to and from
Liverpool all the companies charged uniform rates and
showed no partiality. As their representative, he should
still take any one of the courses open before him to obtain
the returns that the Chamber might think necessary. After
some general reference to the prosperity of the country Mr
Horsfall conclueed by moving the adoption of the report.
Mr HEYWORTII seconded the motion, and dr„Av atten-
tion to the action of the Chamber in regard to the customs
duties in India, upon which the council reported as fol-
lows :—" The Chamber was informed in the annual report
presented in February last that a committee has been ap-
pointed to consider the question of these duties. The com-
mittee to which the question was referred were unable at
that time to prosecute the inqu ry without authoritative
publications of the tariffs of India, which could not be pro-
cured in any of the Alicial quartets. The committee hav-
ing since had before them all the official information ob-
tainable on the subject, your Council are enabled now to
acquaint you that the Customs duties now levied in India
appear to be framed for the purpose of revenue only, and
do not injuriously affect the commerce of thei country,
without producing any corresponding benefit to the Indian
Exchequer. Your council, observing with pleasure that
within the last three years these duties had been largely re-
duced, and hoping that the growing prosperity of the Indian
Exchequer would at no distant time enable the Govern-
ment to remove them altogether, regret to learn that in May
last the scale of valuations on which the duties are calcu-
lated has been considerably raised, and the pressure of
many of these duties thereby increased."
Objections were taken to the concluding part of the third
paragraph, as pledging the council to a statement of fact,
without sufficient grounds thereon.
Atter some discussion the report was adopted with only
two dissentients.
Lord STANLEY, on rising, was received with cheers—lie
said twat he had not had the honour of being in that room
before, but he sincerely hoped this would not be the last
time. He had attended with the intention of being a.listenor
only, but if any remarks of his could be of service he thought
there would be more presumption in refusing to speak than
in offering them. Three or four subjects had been alluded
to bearing on certain questions with which he had had offs
cially to deal. Ile meant those which had reference to India.
First, with reference to the question of Customs duties, on
which the discussion had taken place. Perhaps it might
do something to settle the difficulty if he said that to his
mind the passage referred to, although the words might
appear ambiguous, did not express any opinion that the Cus-
toms did nut affect the commerce of the country. The pro-
position contained in the report was this, that they did not
unjustly affect it; meaning that they did inflict a certain
ainounteof injury, but that it was an injury inevitable,
and which was inflicted simply because it was necessary for
the revenue, and therefore for the good government of India.
Mr Hey worth, in advocating the repeal of these Customs
duties, did not go into the more difficult question of what
was the tax that could be substieuted for these duties with-
out an accompanying injury to those who paid it. He did
not suppose any tax could be a pleasant thing for both high
and low. The millennium of no Custom-houses and 20 per
cent, off the property tax was, he th ,ught, so distant as not
to be within the reach of political prophecy. These Customs
duties were not very high, nominally 3 par cent,, and much
less in reality ; but they were open to this objection, that
they gave a certain protection to the native as against the
English manufacturer. This was, of course, objec•
tionable on principle; but that, as against our command of
capital and skiilen labour, had not rendered the native com-
petition very formidable. However, he apprehended that
every English financier would be of opinion that as soon as
these duties could be got rid of they ought to be, The
question was, how soon could this be dune. There was
one claim which Indian financiers considered to be a prior
claim on our resources, and that was the Indian income
tax, because, difficult as the income tax was to collect under
schedule 1) in this country, the difficulty was tenfold in-
creased when they came to deal with native merchants and
traders. It was feared, when first proposed, that it would
meet with great opposition. They did not oppose it, but
he fancied they evaded it to a pretty considerable extent.
Laughter.) Also because it was imposed in the first
instance only for a limited time, and from the strong ex-
pressions of opinion that it would not require to be renewed,
the income tax had the first claim upon the Indian Ex-
chequer. If the state of finance should allow it, these
Customs duties had the next strongest claims for repeal.
The question really depended upon whether they remained
at peace, and in an Oriental country it was utterly im-
possible to speak with ordinary safety, but they never had
an abler Governor-General, and never had a Calcutta
Administration more thoroughly peaceable in its inten-
tions, and with a more fixed determination not to carry out
that policy of annexation so much discussed 15 years ago.
(Hear, and cheers.) They never had more profound tran-
quillity or better prospects for the future than they had at
present. The experience of the last few years had shown
that the revenues of India were considerably more elastic
than it used to be common to think they were. Another
Indian topic, as he understoood the report of the council,
was that of Indian currency. It did not go into the per-
- ' •

plexing question of a double currency, but simply proposed
to make gold a legal tender to a limited amount as silver
was in England. It was not a question upon which he
would like to pledge himself, but as at present advised, he
failed to see any objection to such a measure as one that

might be safely adopted. As to proposed new dues at
Singapore, he knew there had been two opinions on that
question, but on the whole he was inclined to think that
the view which the Chamber took (that of supporting the
dues) was correct. Those dues were no departure from the
principle of free trade. As to the desirability of reforming
the courts of justice at Rangoon, he fully supported the
views of the Chamber. It was a country for which he be-
lieved there was a very great future. He had long looked
further to the time when all that large territory lying east
of Calcutta should:be constituted into a more independent
Government, and separate Lieutenant-Governor. It would
he believed remove many causes of complaint. In passing
on to the question of the consolidation of Customs, he did
not wish to pronounce a positive opinion. He thought
clearly that Mr Horstall had so fairly drawn the battle, and
ho certainly thought it reasonable and requisite that the
matter should bo tried over again. At the same time he
thought they might carry consolidation too far. lie was

assured it had not answered as was expected in the case of
the War Department. He now came to the question upon

which he had the misfortune to differ with the Cha tabor,
and with Mr Masten—that was the question whether rail-
way companies should be allowed to become owners of

steam vessels. Ho wished to say that at present there was
no absolute prohibition, but it was left to the Select Com-
mittee to exercise their discretion on the understanding

that they stated the reason upon which such privileges
were granted. This, however, had become a mere matter
of form. Ile thought that railwgy companies should be
allowed the privilege—if they could run vessels cheaper
than other parties the public would be the gainers, and if
they could not they would not try. (Hear.) With reference
to the question of a cheaper local postage, he was inclined
to doubt the expedi,n, jof the proceeding. They should

rather :took increased facilities elpostage, but noc interfere

with the established rate, which, he thought, was low
enough. He heartily approved of a Liverpool testimonial
to Sir Rowland Hill, His lordship next referred to the
Lord Chancellor's County Court Bill, which, he thought,
was a subject for grave deliberation. They had to
consider, on the one hand, whether the removal of the
punishment of imprisonment for fraudulent debtors was de-
sirable, and, on the other band, whether too much power
was not left in the hands of the county court judges. With
regard to the petty charges of customs he cordially agreed
with the chamber. With respect to the adoption of a deci-
mal coinage and of a decimal system of weights and mea-
sures, he thought that while the former was easily entorce-
able by Government, tba second was not, and that it would
take a long period and much inconvenience before it could
be established. In France it took 50 years. He had sup-
ported a scheme for decimal coinage, but was afraid that if
they brought the question before the house they would find
themselves in a woeful minority. He had been requested to
say a few words with regard Zo the law of Patents—a very
proper question to engage the attention of a Chamber of
Commerce. They were possibly aware that a Royal Com-
mission was issued two years ago. He was chait man of that
commission. The report was signed, and would shortly be
in print. He would not go into detail on an unpublished
document; but what they had done was briefly this. They
had proposed modifications in the law with a view to lessen
the inconvenience to manufacturers and persons engaged in
business. We could do something to diminish the extraor-
dinary cost and delay incurred by those in fighting patent
cases ; but he was bound to state that, having considered
the subject most carefully for two years, he was satisfied, so
far as he was personally concerned, that the chief objections
to the patent law were not remediable by any change in the
details of the law. They aro the price which the public
pays for rewarding inventors. Might not a time be coming
when some other mode of rewarding inventors could be
substituted for that at present in existence ? It only re
mained for him to congratulate them upon having tided
over the difficulties of the American war, and upon the in-
creasing trade and prosperity of this town. The noble lord
returned his seat amid applause.

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS,

TIMES.—As some of the London theatres, which
used to take as their "season" so many months of
the summer or winter, now use the same name to
signify any term for which they are continuously
open, be it a,whole year round or longer, so must we
now begin to extend in our imaginations the period
during which Parliamentary orators favour the
country with their remarks, and keep us in expecta-
tion of hearing something interesting or profound.
The speech-making season is now from the first
of January to the last of December. The penalty
of reputation must be paid by never-ending display.
Happily for the leading men in Parliament, the art
of addressing an audience in decent language on
general subjects is acquired so thoroughly that they
never need be at a loss to fill up half an hour after
dinner. They have only to go through the familiar
topics of the day till they have exhausted them, and
then if it comes to the worst they can begin them
again. Were it not so—were these discourses at-
tended with much effort, it is hardly possible that
statesmen and members of Parliament should be
ready for them as soon as the Session is over, Yet,
as the legislative work of the country becomes
harder every year, so there seems an increasing
tendency to seek recreation by treating the same
subjects over again all through the country, and, as
it were, chewing the cud of the Session during the
autumn months. First of all, of course, comes
Lord Palmerston. The Premier, one would think, de-
serves a little rest. He has just finished a session
of six mouths. It did not produce any great monu-
ment of legislation, but the labours of Parliamen-
tary life are quite independent of the magnitude of
the subjects on which they ere employed. There is
always an immense muss of business to be transacted,
of petty and yet necessary details to be supervised ;
the First Minister of the country has ,o manage men
as well as to devise measures, and the House of Com-
mons is not now the docile assembly that it was in
the days when to talk of independence and conscien-
tious votes was to gain the reputation of a knave and
not of a philosopher. With a small majority, doubt.
ful a month ago, end a vigorous Opposition in face
of him, Lord Palmerston's whole energies must have
been tried during the cession that is past. He has,
moreover, been etigeged in conducting one of the most
wearisome and ungrateful negotiations that ever fell
to the lot of an English Minister. The policy of his
Government has been violently attacked by his op-
ponents, and coldly defended by his friends. One
might presume that the end of July would find him
desirous to enjoy his well-earned repose, to fly with
alerm from any two or three gentlemen who
looked like a deputation, and to bo relentless in dis-
appointing any assembly that expected a speech.
A tow years since a Minister might have assumed
that a part of his time, at least, was his own. But
in the present day it seems that a public man is
never to lose his publicity. The country is becoming
almost American in its exactions from celebrities of
all kinds, and moat of ail from the political. Inces-
sant representation must be the lot of the matt who
has gained such a name as to make people de-
sirous to see and hear him. The public man now
knows that he must be showing himself every-
where, and speaking about something or other
almost as often as he shows himself. Both Ministers
and Opposition are al ways on the platform, in the
City or in the provinces, holding forth, now in some
great Town-hall, now in the inn of en obscure
on art, or agriculture, or polities, or the Church,
on ettmething which gives them an opportunity of
showing themselves in the flesh to their country-
men, and (stratifying the curiosity of an intelligent
public. On Monday, for instance, her Majesty's
Ministers began the pow-Parliamentary Session by
accepting the Fishmongers' invitation. The weary
statesmen who had been disputing with Bismerk
and Beust for half a year had within two days
after the close of the Session to go down to Lon-
don-bridge and respond to the compliments of
the Prime Warden on their character and policy.
It was certainly satisfactory to receive his congratu.
lations, and to know that the Fishmongers still re-
tain the liberal opinions for which they have been
distinguished. But the hospitality of the great
City Company is but the beginning of something
that will last until It is time for Parliament to meet
again. Nor does the banquet fail to give some pre.
figurcment of the style of oratory which will pre-
vail from the present time to February next. The
Prime Warden was glowing in his praises of the
Premier ; declared that the House of Commons had
pronounced a verdict in his favour which had been
unanimously endorsed by the country, and that
however great the complications in which the nation
might be placed, it reposed the most entire confidence
in his consummate statesmanship. Lord Palmerston
responded in a similar spirit, and returned the com-
pliments of the Company in the happiest manner ;
but the toast of the " the House of Lords" called up
Lord Russell, and then the Fishmongers, of course,
heard all about Lord Grey, the Reform Bill, the Test
aucl Corporation Acts, and civil and religious liberty.
We have scarcely time, however, to think that the
Ministry must be tired of political speaking west and
east of Temple-bar, before Lord Palmerston is heard
of again from another part of England, where he
makes a speech on the advantages of steam travel-
ling, and the contrast of the goods train of to-day
with the waggon of the last generation, and the
improvement which springs from the constant com-
munication between the provinces and the capital.
In a few days he will be speaking at Bradford, and
this strain of oratory vs.ll be kept up until the seri•
ous business of the nation begins once more. The
Opposition will not be behind hand. Lord John

Manners begins the season by a speech on agricuh
turn at Market Harborough, Lord Stanley speaks at
the Liverpool Chamber of Commerce, and before
long they will be followed by every member of
their party of sufficient importance to command an
audience. Whatever may be the value of individual
addresses, there is no doubt that it does " link

classes together " to have the chief men in Parlia

merit thus brought face to face with popula►
audiences, and giving a share of their attention to
those whom the French would call provincials. If
the politicians of the country go circuit almost as
regularly as the judges, the result cannot but be to
diffuse political knowledge and an interest in the
welfare of the State. But the public ought certainly
to be much obliged to the eminent persons who thus
sacrifice time and convenience for their benefit.
What a Prime Minister's holyday is in the present
day we are not able to make out, and two or three
of his colleagues are almost equally nnrelaxing in
their work. The ordinary work of Parliament is of
itself sufficiently exhausting, the incessant attention
which the great machine of State requires is known
only to those who are concerned in its manage-
ment, and we are sometimes inclined to think that
the human machine is hardly and Wastefully dealt
with when it is subjected to the addLional strain

of provincial oratory.
HERALD.—Tne Danish Rigsraad has received the
announcement that preliminaries of peace have been
signed, with a silence which it protests must not
be regarded as satisfaction. Conscious that the
nation lay at the mercy of its enemies, convinced
that only the absolute abandonment of a third of
its territory would save the Danish monarchy from
total extinction, the members of the Riviratid must,
inceed, forbear from censuring the Ministers who
have put their hands to this degradation of their
country to the condition of a fifth-rate state ; but
they cannot, in their grief and indignation, render
full justice to the difficult position in which those
Ministers found themselves, and they will not even
seem to approve the transaction which destroys
Denmark as a European power. No true-hearted
Dine will be able to find any consolation in this
pax.: of Vienna. A people proud of history, proud
of the great part it has played in Europe, conscious
that in no di:grte 11:13 it f.illea

virtues, and assured by the whole of Europe tha
its cause was a just one, cannot be consoled for its
relegation to a role utterly unimportant in the great
European tragi-comedy' by the insulting promise
.that its insiguificance will save it from the neces-
sity of paying taxed to keep up an army and navy,
and the mocking assurance of the sympathies of the
nations who are mainly responsible for all the cala-
mities it mourns. The Kiog of Denmark may be
satisfied—he still has a throne to which he has no. w
no moral and hardly any legal right, and of wiveh
fifteen years ago he would not have ventured in his
most sanguine moods to dream. Holstein, Sob wevsig
and Lauenburg are gone; he has signed them
away, but he is still a King, instead of a younger
,brother of a younger branch of a younger betide.
That he should hale had to commence his reign
by such a division of his kingdom is indeed his
misfortune and not his fault; but the Danes may'
well curse the hoer when, in reliance upon the
engagements of the European Powers, they altered
their law of succession. Better far would it have
i
been for them if they had refused to believe n the
promises. of England—the principal egen: in the
negotiation. of that treaty of 1852 over the violation
of which Lord Palmerston, its author, now jokes so
pleasantly. They were told that by repealing the
Lex Reg is and electing to their throne a
prince
without the slightest claims to it they would insure
the undisputed union of all parts of the monarchy
after the extinction of the male descendants of Fre-
derick 111. And very much againet their will they
did so. Their reward is, that they are saddled with
a Sovereign for whom, however estimable be MIT
be, they care little ; lose altogether provinces whieu
have formed part of the Danish monarchy for
more
flower
than five hundred ears have sacrificed the
their
and areburdened
the
metrheey futureof ever
ywith heavy lia-
bilities,o f
p,war which
pleases to insult or rob them. That is the r
trusting to the pledges and the sympathy of t'vf
Earope-
p.eo.p.les
.who profess to be at the head of
civilisation—who claim to have a decisive part
1„11
the settlement of European questions, and who are=
the one
nate Asiatics ; and the other a mercenary, whil;
pretending. to fight for an idea, will only fight„w"red
there is a chance of despoiling somebody.
as are
however, as is the fate of the Danes. severe
esult et
the conditions which Herr Von Bismark hits ',T•
ee
posed, theepyrop
have no
nioorf Earleason Rustorseegili and, ret that theyfu ast
it
last
struggle, have dealt directly with their f teenr'
Had they accepted Lord Russell's last props to
solesm
would have retained only a small por:ion of
wig—a portion divided by no definite frontier Gtr-
the rest of the duchy, and a portion for which Gilv
many would always have been clangouring. As„,tl),;23er
could not have the frontier of the Schley so"
Dennewerke, they are better without any
of Schleswig. True, England proposed to gusrea efit
tee them the portion which they might retain. m"-.
all the world knows now the value of an English gt Ise
rantee. Another Earl Russell—it indeed another e,gs
could. produce. a Minister so vain, and so regardi„eekt
alike of his own and his country's honour---ws7
apply to Liberal lawufficers of theCrowu and recerld
the desired opinion that some act of De'litnerk 1360
liberated us from our obligation. The guareoteid
would have been perfectly worthless, and it wsule
have been ex, remely mischievous. It won d heat
given Earl Russell a pretext for continuing heat
Impertinent and ignorant interference in 37)4,11:e1's
affairs to whicri the dismemberment of Deoms—
presento
really due. The Danes must, find the cup
to
.them bitter enough to drain but they are net
d
ratio.
foolish as to allow its bitterness to be sugalenteto
by supposing that they would have done better to
have aecepted the last scheme of Earl Russell:•
Danes can find no compensation far their lled-
tunes in the divisions of their victors, nor, I,lsd„edes.
ought Englishmen to join in that absurd and 1-
cen.t shout of exultation over German discortl4.o
mwhayichhaovuerliLttilbeerreaalsocnouttoembeploiervaerietshaitradulge..
0f
the to" u-
Germany, if accomplished, would add to the secea
rity of European peace, and we may have !ear/7'n r.
to despise the so-called constitutional party In
many, but, after all, we cannot desire to see n3ell.
like Herr Von Bismarck in possession of esc°d
trolled power, or Hanover and Saxony awallosves
up by the most aggressive, the most. tinscrupta l
aler;
t,
the most treacherous of European Powers.
are but two points in the present situetion wli
can afford the slightest satisfaction to EnglisillrD „ enili
and the satisfaction they would give, small f
personal as it is, would be shared by honest men o
every nation, The fact is that the Augustenburg
pretender, who kindled this flame for degraded owl!
aggrandisement, and to gain a throne
himself to the level of the lowest trickster, seems
such crew;
likely after all to meet tha fate due to
tures, and in the end miss the prize; the other, tha
seithou.t
the Duke of Saxe-Coburg, his great ally'
whose active interference not one of the lives sacri-
ficed in this iniquitous war would have been lost,
hes also missed his coup, and instead of becoming
the leader and the arbiter of Germany, has lost
whatever real influence he possessed and lies at the
mercy of Herr Von Bismarck.