The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-29 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 201 1852.

MAYNOOTH.

Mr. REYNOLDS said the adjourned debate on the
Maynooth grant stood No. 28 on the paper for to-night,
and he wished to know if the Hon. Member for North
W arwickshire had come to any understanding with the
Government as to fixing a day for resuming it?
Mr. SPOONER said he had had no communication
with the Government upon the subject, but as for fixing
a day, that must depend upon what took place when the
debate again came on.
MILITIA BILL.

Colonel SIBTHORP wished to know if the Militia
Bill would be reprinted before the third reading?
Mr. WALPOLE said that very little alteration had
been made in the report, and there would be no neces-
sity to reprint the Bill.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.

Mr. HINDLEY said, unless some-arrangement were
come to for resuming the adjourned debate on the May-
nooth question, he should move that the order of the
day be read for the purpose of being discharged,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that he would take the opportunity of moving that
the House, at its rising, do adjourn till Thursday next,
in order that be might be enabled to state what course
he thought it best to take to expedite the progress of
public business.—(Hear, hear.) He should still adhere
to the original arrangement of proceeding with the
Committee on the Militia Bill on Thursday next, but
with regard to other Bills, he had placed certain resolu-
tions upon the paper, for the purpose of making their
morning sittings more efficient, which would enable
them to dispose of several important questions, and
which he therefore hoped would receive the assent of
the House. Those resolutions were;—" That whenever
the House shall sit, for dispatch of business, at twelve
o'clock on any day except Wednesday and Saturday,
if such business be disposed of not later than three
o'clock, the House will resume its sitting at five o'clock;
and if such business be disposed of after three o'clock
and before four o'clock, the House will resume its sit-
ting at six o'clock. That when such business has not
been disposed of at four o'clock, Mr. Speaker (or the
Chairman, in case the House shall be in Committee) do
leave the. chair, and the House will resume its sitting
at six ,o'clock, when the orders of the day
not disposed of at the morning sitting, and
any motion which was under discussion at
four o'clock, shall be set down in the Order
Book after the other orders of the day. That when
ever the House shall be in Committee at four o'clock,
the Chairman do report progress when the House re-
sumes its sitting. That all dropped orders of the day
be set down in the Order Book, after the orders of the
morning
u t on s ,
day for the next day on which the House shall sit."
frh
e
if they were adopted, would render
ras eo
rrne
sittings far more satisfactory than they had
hitherto been, and if they were passed, he should feel
himself at liberty to avail himself of the privilege im-
mediately after the holidays.—(Hear, hear.) He did
not intend to interfere with the Tuesday sitting,
which was devoted to independent Members, but looking
the
to the present state of public business, and the advanced
period of the session, it would be necessary for him to
appeal to the forbearance of Honourable Gentleman
even on that day.— (Hear, hear.) If those reso-
lutions were assented to, he should propose, that on
Thursday they should go into Committee upen the New
Zealand Bill, and that on the Monday and Tuesday
following they should meet at twelve o'clock to discuss
the Metropolitan Interments Bill, and the Metropolitan
Buildings Bill.—(gear.) With regard to the question
to which several Gentlemen had referred in the course
of the evening, it was his opinion that after all that had
taken place, it was expedient that the Maynooth debate
should be brought to an issue, and with that view ho
proposed that it should be continued this day week
at twelve o'clock, bat it would be only on the
understanding that there would be a determination on
both sides of the House to bring the question to a
close on that night.—(Hear, hear.) It now only re-
maiaed for him to move, that the House at its rising do
adjourn till Thursday next. He should take the supply
after the New Zealand debate on Friday.
Mr. MILES hoped, as the Government had given way
in order to bring the Maynooth question to an issue, if
a motion were made to adjourn the debate beyond Fri-
day, the public would be convinced that Hon. Members
opposite were disposed to take a factious course for the
purpose of preventing any inquiry.
Mr. LABOUCHERE hoard with deep regret the
announcement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The
proceedings upon the Maynooth question were utterly jr-
reconcileable with the dignity and integrity of the House,
and he considered that to institute an inquiry within a
fortnight of the end of the session was a farce and a
mockery.

that he had done anything it was. admittedot-uvNviEllißtigtoetertain an inquiry.
Mr k'n
the inquiry co
annoyt t bh ei
nbroughtinjure
utroe t
haesnahtiasrfaacetteorryofthe
that in the present session House, though
con-
clusion, but
ILL
Bhue
RN considered
t hough
the House ought to show the country.that
Ho denied
had done
Mr. 8° by the factious course they bad adopted.
GO WO Ulll.
avoidable after what had happened; but as Mr. Spooner
made this
that an inquiry could not be properly
should Is session, he suggested that the Government
thought
Membersinciuiry opposite
at once institute an investigation on their own
responsibility,and -the next Parlia-
ment. report the result to
The O'GORMAN MAHON proposed that the House
should sit to-morrow, and proceed continuously with the
debatell from day to day until it terminated. .
Mr. NE WDEGATE deprecated the practice of a
small nnmber of Members in the HOW° taking a fac-
"el: course, and endeavouring to coerce the majority.
1" . UUME thought the Government might put an
end to all dispute by appointing a Commission to eon•
duct the inquiry.
Mr. /1- HERBERT said the spirit in which the
discussion had been conducted would do more in-
jury to Protestantism in Ireland than ten
colleges of Maynooth in twenty years. If the Hon.
Member for North Warwickshire really wished for in-
cluirY, and if the Government desired to support
hit n, the Right Honourable Member for the
University of Cambridge (Mr. Goulburn) had
pointed out a course which would fully accom-
plish the desired end. He believed, however,
that the proposal for inquiry was a mere sham and de-
lusion, the object of which was to get up a cry for the
hustings.—(Cheers.)
After a few words from Mr. HOWARD,
Sir B. HALL hoped, if the Government were sincere,
they would carry out the suggestion of Mr. Goulburn
for the anptaintment of a COMMISSIOD.
Mr. REYNOLDS observed that the Members who
were so tender of the character of the House were !a-
bjuring under a false impression. As regarded charac-
ter and liberality, it was impossible for a Home
to be in a worse position, and the less that was
said on the subject the better. It was perfectly clear
that if this - • s ordered to be made by the II
inquiry was ouse
the Committee could only sit for two or three
weeks, and then the subject would be buried in
the tomb of all the Capulets. They invited
and courted inquiry, but they would not consent
had to a division until they dispelled the cloud that been
thrown before the independent electors of the country.
The ;Hon. Member for Peeblesshire, one of
the Und
Seeretatiei; had gone to the gre t er-
a emporium

of trade, Liverpool, and sounded the tocsin of
religious discord, by telling the electors that
if they would vote for him he would support the
withdrawal of the grant to Maynooth. The following
lines in Hudibras were applicable to the position of that
Hon. Member :
" What makes all doctrines plain and clear?
'Tis just twelve hundred pounds a year.
And that which was proved true before
Proves false again?—Twelve hundred more."
The Chief Secretary for Ireland also sat mute, and loft
Maynooth to the tender mercies of the Hon. Member for
Warwickshire. The Right Hon. Member for the Uni-
versity of Cambridge had suggested a commission of in-
quiry. To inquire into what? Into some recent cir-
cumstances? Into the Durham letter, into the Eccle-
siastical Titles Bill, into that permanent conspiracy, half
lay and half clerical, which held its sittings in this city
under the name of the National Club? What need was
there of inquiry, if there was nothing to be inquired
into? It was the old principle to throw as much dirt as
possible, in the hope that some of it would stick. That
reminded him of a story—a candidate for a seat in Par-
liament, a most respectable man, was utterly driven from
the hastings, because an agent of his opponent asked him
" who killed his own washerwoman?" It was said this
was a Protestant country. He (Mr. Reynolds) thought
the best proof to the contrary was the presence of Roman
Catholics in the Legislature. It was not a Protestant
country; for one-third of the people were Roman Ca-
tholic, and one-third of the income also.—(No.) And yet
they were told that 26;0001, applied to Maynooth, was
a misapplicarion of the public money; it was but a beg-
garly instalment of justice. It was never asked for; and
it was now sought to be withdrawn, in consequence of
the acts of the Synod of Thurles, and the opposition of
the clergy to the new colleges. As a Roman Catholic
Member he would give no such pledge as that suggested
by the Right Hon. Member for the University of Cam-
bridge, that the debate should be closed on Friday. In
conclusion, he denied again the imputation of desiring
factiously to protract the debate, and stated that he for-
gave the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire for
having done so much mischief in the Christian commu-
nity of this country, as he hoped God would forgive
him.—(Laughter.)
Mr. FRESHFIELD explained. Re repudiated the
charge of being the cause of any delaY in the discussion
of the motion. He had only moved the adjournment at
an hour—half-past three o'oclock, when the House was
close on the period of proceeding with other busi-
ness; and he had done so to give the House an oppor-
tunity of fixing a further day for the resumption of the
debate. His motion was strictly in accordance with
the rules of the House; and was, moreover, made to
facilitate, and not to impede, the discussion of the ques-
tion at issue.
Mr. ANSTEY said the imputation came from the
other side of the House, and not from his side, and to
that the Hon. Member fur Boston ought to have ad-
dressed himself. He (Mr. Anstey) trusted her Majesty's
Government would give a pledge to prosecute the in-
quiry in the form suggested by the Right Hon. Member
for Cambridge, in a fitting and proper way; and it was
his intention to test their sincerity on the subject by
putting a question, when the time should arrive for that
purpose.
Mr. KEOGH made no complaint of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Peeblesshire, but certain matters ought, in his
opinion,
to be mentioned before the House went to the
country, to the end that the electors should understand
the game that was now playing. He understood the
Hon. Member for North Warwickshire—and it was only
right the Hon. Member should hear what was said—
was anxious to have the discussion on the motion pro-
seouted, and that the other Hon. Member for North
Warwickshire was anxious that the question should be
supported by the whole strength of their party. He had
heard something said about raising a cry in the country,
but he did not believe that was the Hon. Member's ob-
ject. He believed the Hon. Member for North War-
wickshire was sincere in his desire for a repeal of the
grant to Maynooth, but he did not give other Hon. Mem-
bers the same credit. The Right Hon. Gentleman the
Secretary of State had spoken on the question; but the
Right Hon. Gentleman the leader of that House had not
favoured the House with his sentiments. That Right
Hon. Gentleman had not told the House whether one
of the present Government had not counselled the Hon.
Member (Mr. Spooner) to bring forward this question.—
(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman was accom-
plished in literature—both in comedy and tragedy; and
in one of his works he bad immortalised Tadpole and
Taper, who, in a conversation with Rigby, drew from
that personage that he never did anything with-
out first setting up a cry.—(Hear, and laughter.)
Now, in the present case, there was a double cry—
the cry in England was Protestantism and Derbyism;
in Ireland, it was Roman Catholicism and Derbyism.
—(Hear, hear). What faith could the Honourable
Member for North Warwickshire put in such a Go-
vernment? The Honourable Member ought to know the
secret practices going on in other places. He had seen
an address from one of the Derbyites in Ireland,
in which the candidate stated he was opposed to the
Ecclesiastical Titles Bill of last session, and determined
to support the grant to the Royal College of Maynooth.
Was the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire satisfied
with that state of things? When the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, in 1845, was assailing Sir Robert Peel, he
then said that protection in 1845 was in the same condi-
tion as Protestantism was in 1341.—(Hear.) Could the
Hon. Gentleman put faith in a Government which was
raising a cry of Derby and Maynooth in Ireland, and
going about the country in England raising the cry of
Derby, and down with Maynooth? The question before
the House was for a Committee of that House to in-
quire into Maynooth; that proposition had been sup-
ported by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of
State, and forthwith the Hon. Gentleman who made the
proposition rose, and told the House the Committee he
sought could never meet, and the inquiry, if granted,
could never take place. Was the House to concede to
an independent Member such a course? He had al-
ways heard, when an independent Member made a mo-
tion for a Committee that a Minister would say, though
favourable to the proposition, still his sense of duty
would not permit him to allow the public time to be
wasted, and therefore he must oppose the proposition.
But in the present case the Right Hon. Gentleman had
told the Hon. Gentleman the public time must be wasted,
and, though it was impossible
Right d iscussion could take
place satisfactorily, Yet Plell9ll- Gentleman
would support the proposition_truly de for discussion. Here as
a question described, and was
a ed, to be of an
question in which the Protestant
important nature---3
population was deeply interested—a question which in
his conscience he-believed would convulse the whole yes Government
Ca-
tholic population of Ireland—and f
the great interests involved
en-
trusted it to the guardianship of the Hon. Member for
North Warwickshire,
hacompromisedd
lbeeaeivnni ntghdee aslatinweitwhabyyas certain other
in it to be
great questions the Tadpoles
the Treasury bench—namely, and Tapers of anaely, by a cone-
-(Efear.) Was it not one of the followers of
promise. Gentleman who '
in 1845, after the second
the Right Hon.
Maynooth Bill, called the attention of the
reading of the Administration
head of the . to the Circumstance of two
his Administration having voted against the
members of
d t '
Governneent measure, aldn auntlegly asked the Premier
(Sir R. Peel) if he would himself to be trifled with
in his Administration persons who would
by keeping
so wildly in opposition to their colleagues? The an-
swervote
the
inquirer received was, that he (Sir R. Peel)
be master of his position;
meant to that he kept to him-
selfof controlling the
the power _ acts of his colleagues;
and that he intended to exert the whole of the power of
Government to carry the question. But what had the
House
now, under the leadership of a Gentleman who
whole hours, and '
had spoken _ . written whole volumes, to
prove the necessity of making public men adhere to a
standard of public principle—(Hear)—what did the
Just find? They
House now found ,the second law officer of
the Crown the first to raise on the hastings the cry of
anti-Maynooth in the very teeth of the recorded opinion
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.—(Hear, hear.)
They found the Secretary of the Treasury,
who ought
to have been the last man to place himself in a position
in which no public man ought to be placed, the recog-
nised whipper-in of tho party, going down to one of the
moat important constituencies in England—a constitu-
ency once represented by A Canning—and setting up as
the only pretension which, in his (Mr. Keogh's) con-
science, he believed he could put forward, a reckless de-
claration to maintain his opinion, and a bigotted deter-
mination to sacrifice everything to the retention of office
and his party.—(Hear, hear.) That Hon. Gentleman,
hOwever, might have this consolation for his retreat from
principles he avowed in 1846—if a vacancy occurred in
the Cabinet, and he was called upon to fill it up, he
would return to his former opinions, and would fling to
the winds his present professions in order to win the em-
braces of a more enlightened constituency.—(Hear.) He
had sought to place the position of the Government before
the House and country, because he was aware that many
people believed the grant to Maynooth, the first instal-
ment due to justice, ought to be withdrawn. He would
warn the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire and the
country that the occupants of the Treasury bench were
playing a most deceptive game. They had sent the re
cognised and confidential agent of the Premier to Ire-
land, who had published an address to the electors, in
which he openly expressed his determination to give a
decided support to the endowment of Maynooth—thus
leading every one to believe that the Noble Lord the
chief of the Administration entertained the same opinions,
and that nothing was further from the intention of Go-
vernment than to concede a single particle to the Hon.
Member for North Warwickshire. With such facts be-
fore them, if they believed that anything could be gained
by inquiry then they were the most credulous dupes on
the face of the earth. He believed by this discussion
they would only irritate, exacerbate, wring, and torture
the feelings of the people of Ireland; and all this about
a grant, which, if divided and subdivided, would not
give a penny a, head to the Catholic population of Ire-
land.—(Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
might have risen before to reply to th
the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for
suggestion of
m
Univer-
sity of Cambridge, but he preferred be.r the doing so now instead
of waiting until the dis • cussion terminated. He had,
with the rest of her Majesty's G
sub-
jected to the comments of theßiovernment, been
. ght Hon. Gentleman
the Member for Taunton, who had charged him with
pracitsing conduct unworthy of the position he occu-
pied, in consequence of his having suggested Friday
next as the most suitable day on which to resume the
debate on the Maynooth question. No one was more
ready than himself t k 1 d
oac nowge ehow unequal he was
to the responsibilities which he had been called upon
to discharge—but he was bound to say, in the course he
had taken that day, he felt he had done that which he
ought to do.—(Hear.) It had been said that these dis-
cussions were calculated to lower the tone of that House,
and to shake the confidence of the other House and the
people; but he could not help thinking that nothing
of that
could be more calculated to lower the tone make a
House and to shake popular confidence than to
systematic effort to evade such discus.eaa them, or to resist
bad
a judgment on questions involved n

been anxious that the debate should not be prolonged.
He had expressed his opinion as to the conduct of the
debate—he hid not wished to prolong it, and last
Tuesday ho had made an appeal to the Noble Lord op-
posite and other Hon. Members on the subject, and had
his advice been followed a division would have been
taken on Tuesday. There was one duty of a leader of
that House which ought never to bo omitted—the duty
of consulting the feelings of the House on the conduct
of affairs and debates.—(Hear.) He would not allude to
what was fresh in the recollection of the House—he
would only say that taunts, repeated taunts, bed been
addressed to her Majesty's Government because they
would not give a day—because Government would not
come forward and assist to obtain a decision for which
the House waited. It was only a few nights ago that
Government were denounced by the Hon. Gentlemen
opposite for not doing that for which they were now de-
nounced for doing.—(Hear.) Government were re-
proached far wishitig to proceed with the debate because
inquiry was impossible. Why, the inquiry was not
more impossible now than it was when the Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite was so anxious to have a decision on
the question—were anxious to have, as they said, an
inquiry. They all knew that the vote meant the House
should express an opinion as to the propriety of having
an inquiry into the system pursued at Maynooth ;
and a mockery and a delusion as to the man-
ner when he heard such language as that it was
in which the debate was conducted. It would, he con-
ceived, be much more a farce and a mockery if the
House did not endeavour to arrive at a vote on the ques-
tion. With regard to the expression of the Hon. and
Learned Member insinuating, and more than insinuating,
that be attempted to use this subject to promote party
interests, be felt perfectly conscious he was quite inno-
cent of any such intention.—(Hear.) If that charge
had been correct he might have adopted a different tone;
but he was satisfied no one could accuse him of intro-
ducing into the discussion expressions of acerbity calcu-
lated to wound any one. He bad, without reserve, ex-
pressed the ground on which ho voted for an inquiry,
and the same ground had been more ably expressed by
the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Walpole).
That ground was, considering the question had so
occupied the public mind and inflamed public passions,
it was highly expedient and politic to ascertain
if the national objects fur which the grant was
made had been fulfilled. They might enter into that
inquiry, he considered, without at all prejudging the
question. As to the question of the Right Hon. Gen-
tlemen (Mr. Goulbourn), relative to a Royal Commis-
sion, that was not a novel suggestion; it had already
been made by the Noble Lord (Lord John Russell). He
had expressed his objection, and he would again repeat
it. An inquiry-by a Royal Commission, which could
compel the attendance of no witnesses, would nut be a
satisfactory course to pursue in the present state of the
public mind. No inquiry during the recess would be
satisfactory, unless it was united with those powers
which Government only could confer. What chance
was there of gaining those powers?—(Hear, hear.)
If the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire found a
difficulty in carrying on the discussion for a Committee
of Inquiry, what chance had her Majesty's Government
of carrying a law to enable the Commission to exercise
powers which were indispensable? Every one must
feel it was impossible. If Government could not do
that, would it bo well to adopt the suggestion of the
Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Goulburn)? He
would state the broad grounds why it would be ob-
jectionable. Was there a better chance, if the plan was
adopted, of making the inquiry effective? And when
they heard of mockery and farces, nothing was more
calculated to disgust the people than to take important
questions from the popular area, and to introduce them
into the Cabinet, for the purpose of providing a scheme
of investigation which could not produce any result.—
(Hear, hear.) This was the important ground on which
Government opposed a Commission of Inquiry. He
would say, in his own vindication, that until he received
expressions of opinion from Gentlemen on both sides of
the House, and belonging to all parties, he was unwil-
ling, in the present state of public business, to give a
day. It had been mentioned that he gave a Govern-
ment day; but it must be recollected, whether Govern-
ment had fixed Friday or Tuesday, the result would be
exactly the same. It was because on the whole, after the
discussion which had taken place, and after so much pub-
lic feeling had been expressed, and a general under-
standing prevailed that it was necessary and expedient
to give the House of Commons an opportunity of ex •
pressing the opinion whether an inquiry should take place
into the College of Maynooth, that he felt it to be his
duty to take such a course as would facilitate that
object. He had no object but to fulfil his duty, and
the consciousness of having done his duty would sus-
tain him under the attacks to which he had been ex-
posed.—(Cheers,)
Friday was then agreed to.
THE CASE OF MR. MURRAY.
Lord D. STUART rose and said he thought the
House and the country had a right to ask for informa-
tion respecting the circumstances which led to the im-
prisonment and the passing of sentence of death on an
English subject. No matter how mean the condition of
any British subject, in such a case he was deserving the
attention of the House; but Mr. Murray, the unfortu-
nate person in question, was most respectably connected,
and his father, grandfather, and many others of his
family, had served in the British army. It appeared
that Mr. Murray, who had been travelling in Italy with
his father, entered the service of the Roman Govern-
ment of the day in 1848, and was employed first in the
army and afterwards in the police, but that, having been
suspected of being implicated in the murder of some
partisans of the Papal Government, be had been arrested
and sent to Rome, where he was tried, acquitted, and set
at liberty. He afterwards proceeded to Ancona; but the
Pope having been restored to his dominions subsequently,
the unfortunate man was again arrested for the offence
of which it had been rumoured be was guilty, and of
which he had been acquitted, and was thrown into
prison. There he remained for nearly three years,
and Hon. Members who knew what Italian prisons
were, either from having seen, as he had, those places of
misery and torture, or from having road the eloquent
description of the Right Hon. Member for the University
of Oxford, would have some conception of what he—
their fellow-subject—endured during this lengthened
period, without being brought to trial. There was no
one who could wish that, if guilty of the crime which
rumour had connected with his name—for he (Lord D.
S:uart) had not yet heard distinctly the charge brought
against him by the Roman Government—Mr. Murray
should escape justice, whether their fellow-countryman
or not; but what interested the House and the country
was, whether he was really guilty or not; whether
he had had the advantage of a fair and open
trial; and whether those who represented this country,
from the head of the Foreign-office down to the Consuls
at Ancona and Rome, had done their duty in seeking
justice for an English subject. From the statement of
the Noble Lord in another place, and from information
received from other quarters, it appeared to him the un-
fortunate gentleman had not had the advantage
of a fair trial. He had not imputed to Mr. Murray,
as was supposed, a political offence; but what he
said was that the Papal Government, by treating him
as guilty of a political offence, had deprived him
of advantages to which he would otherwise have been
entitled. In the first place, he had been treated as
guilty of a political offence, he must have come within
the amnesty issued after the return of the Pope from
Gaeta to Rome, but he was not included—neither was
he tried by the tribunal at Ancona, and therefore had
not the advantage of an appeal, to which he would
have been entitled in the ordinary counsel; neither
had he liberty to choose a counsel, but the Papal
Government had appointed him in that capacity
a person whose duty it was to draw up an
official summary of the cases, and it was very
easy to understand that, in a country like Rome,
where the courts of law were notoriously ill-managed,
and justice did not prevail, the counsel appointed by
Government were not likely to do that justice to a pri-
soner which might be expected in other quarters. He
must say it did not appear to him the Consuls had done
their duty in seeing Mr. Murray had fair play, because
the result of what the Noble Lord said was, that in-
formation had been sent from the Consul at Ancona
to the Consul at Rome of Mr. Murray's arrest, and
that the latter at once did that which was highly
becoming, so far as it went, namely, represented
the case to the Papal Government on behalf of
the unfortunate prisoner; but Mr. Freeborn ne-
vertheless did not send information of what
had occurred till about February in this year; that was
not till nearly three years after the unfortunate man
had been arrested. Mr. Freeborn was, no doubt, an
active and intelligent and able officer, but his long silence
was al; ogether surprising, and required explanation.
Whether Mr. Moore, the Consul at Ancona, did not send
Mr. Freeborn information of Mr. Murray's arrest, or,
having done so, the latter had not informed the Govern-
mentt itfn
was
—of
reoccfuatlshi eaeri ts
a at home, he could noaotsastiaabylve;arbaeus
neglectane
mal o
—anomalous
s duty.
and
objectionable twa et
rela-
tions between this country and Rome, but the fault of
that lay with the party now in power—it was the act of
the Noble Lord now in Dublin Castle, and there seemed
to be a sort of poetical justice in the present case. Had
anything been done to insure a proper trial of Mr. Mur-
ray, and to give him the advantage of counsel? He
wished to ask a question also with regard to Mr. Ma-
ther, who had been most shamefully treated by Austrian
officers in Tuscany. Earl Granville had intimated to
the father of Mr. Mather that, as soon as the affair was
concluded it was his intention to lay all the correspon-
dence before Parliament. Now that the negotiation was
brought to a close, ho wished to ask the Noble Lord
whether there would be any objection to lay the papers
on the tabl2 of the House?
Lord STANLEY was astonished that the Noble Lord
should find in the proceeding upon Mr.
M utrhre present
aYscase
any ground for preferring a charge
against he had clearly
Government.—(Hear, hear.) leL
thought
the Noble Lord
explained on the previous evening,
House, when
that as soon OE3
brought this subject before the
the Government heard that the life of an English sub-
ject was in peril, and that
sen-
tence of death, they direct Mr. Murray lay under
ed the British Consuls in
Ancona and Rome to use all the influence and authority
of
o the sentence. The
d to procure a respite
of England
f the previous imprisonment
and Lord had spoken o
and acquittal of Mr. Murray. It was true he had been
imprisoned before on this charge, butregarded
_ as his
'' acquittal," that implied a regular trial, and ho had no
that any tr.
of knowinghad taken place. Mr.
means
Murray
in
t was releastededb by the Republican Government,
arresy Papal Government. The
and bye
Noblega Lord said Mr. Murray ought to have been re-
lsased under the amnesty. but his offence could not be
called a political offence. Political feeling had certainly
be mixed up with it, but the specific charge
against Mr. Murray Was, that he, holding the situation
of Inspector of Police at Ancona, had connived at the
murder of Roman gentlemen in that city. Mr. Free-
born wrote in February of the present year that the ar-
rest of Mr. Murray had taken place, but the case was
U 9141 his diakict; oucl i; did PO aPPeu that Air, Alccre,

the British consul at Ancona, had reported the 00
Since the dispatches of Mr. Freeborn had pat the G°:
vernment in possession of the existing circtunstanse;
they bad x-rted themselves to the utmost` to ere°,
any it justice being done to a British sutject. One
monstrance was immediately put in by Mr. Freeborn:
and two more had been since addressed t the Palm' q,,
vernment—one in April and the other in the beetio°''',
of May. He did nut think there was the slightest reap
son to impute any slickness in the discharge of hi:
ditties to Mr. Freeborn from the time the matter caw
within his power to interfere. He did not know b,
Mr. Moore had not reported the case earlier, but
,IPss
fact of the Government having interfered proved tFch
the sentence was not one in their opinion upon able,
the life of a British subj, et should depend. Witb„,,,ret
gard to the publication of the papers, the Governor
must fellow the usual course of withholdieg the Paper
until the negotiations were at an end. tthe
Lord PALMERSTON, during the time he was a-eos
head of the Foreign-office, had received no informs.' d
on the subject of this case. Undoubtedly, it aPPeffatif
to require explanation why Mr. Moore, it the aO,
originated at Aneena, or Mr. Fie eborn, if it•wcre trade
foiled to Rome, did nut make a communication to
Foreign-office; and also why the friends of Ms- hiferoe
in England did not make application to him (fll' le,
rnerston) when he wes at the head of the Foreige4o
With regard to Mr. Moore and Mr. Freeborn, boffeho
it was only right to say that it was impossible to,..dir
two public servants who hid shown more zeal and to
cretion in tho duties imposed upon them, and it mu' abet
supposed there were reasons hick led them th-Lnkler
the case of Murray did not require immediate rePf3
tations to the Government of Great Britain. 01,10
if he (Lord Palmerston) were informed that a Pr raye
subject were placed in confinement for trial for a g. the
aed
and serious offence against the criminal isee °
country in which he resided, he should hire to
thet Consul
he wasonsulor Minister of the ptiegil
tatrkuo ct
care that
provided with goo" eitir
defence and professional advice for defending:, the
self against the accusation. Of course, ose
first information the Government obtained of tea pre
was that the trial had been concluded and the L'e",,estet
passed, that preliminary proceeding could not teed° to the
lie agreed with what had been said with regar. Go'
inconvenience of the non-intercourse between 6",;reest'
vernment and that of Rome. The Roman G°°,..,e",efo°
before the passing of the Act empowering the u'h-ajer
enter into diplomatic negotiations with Rome' pod
pressed a great desire to have diplomatic neg7w-bidi
with Great Britain. It was true that the clause b the
was inserted during the
House of Lords, and which prevented the 1:0171°001
vet ninent from sending as their representative 44,8 $0
passing of the Bill throng Go'
ecclesiastic, did give offence to the Roman Col„r" re
sl
thought that they ought Lo; to have taken osten,6o,
that clause, for it only placed by law the diplocestifose
tercourso between Rume and England on the 81100
log as the diplomatic intercourse of the Court 0 isieoe
had been placed with Russia and Prussia by the dieci9l4
---e
of the Courts of St. Petersburgh and Berlin":000'
in which the Court of Rome had implicitly On,
The Pope had had Ministers from Russia and4oiell
resident at Rome, and whereas the Russian and,' the
Governments had refused to receive ecclesiastics '0 for
representatives of the Papal Court, the Pope bad.6.A pal
acquiesced in that decision that he bad abstain
sending ecclesiastics to those Courts. 6"etorr
held that the Pope was not justified in obfectingf
tbst
ceive a British Minister, after the paseiegm.,°
Act, because we were only restrained by law is:;0001::
ceiving an ecclesiastic as the representative or Sl'. rti PZI
of Rome, in the same manner that the two elf, ten
had mentioned were prevented by the decisions
0,, Ita
respective Governments from doing the same OtelLe.
he did not, in fact, understand that any such ribil
send a representative here had ever been Made jeer
Roman Government. What they said was, 00_410,
sequence of the law they could not receive a Per :0;014.
mission; but there was not any reason for "6 r re e
a temporary mission; and if' such a mission Ore,
from time to time, as occasions might arise 6°
them, that would answer all the purposes that Teo
be arrived at by a permanent mission. And tee 11",,d
there was nothing in the present disposition 04 0" reerri
man Court to prevent' our Government from cid
our Minister at Florence, or elsewhere, from gaocerfl,
Rome to settle any question between the two biol;
monts. He wished to correct what appeared
misconception as to the effect of the clause in t""tocrt
matic Relations with Rome Act, and the noti°°,oisti°,
Court of Rome had refused to enter into ateY,netss tb6'
with the Government of Great Britain, rin,er:o3looo"
only said they could not receive a permanent
and could only receive a temporary mission' he 01
Lord D. STUART then gave notice that, to cor
move on Thursday next for the production 0,
respondence in Mr. Mather's case.
The matter then ended. efAS, •
CONDUCT OF GENERAL THOe- ice of
Mr. S. CRAWFORD said he had given 0°6..f Gee
question with reference to the alleged condro4 `'• Oleo'
tel Thomas and other military officers at 1111,19svertl
in attempting tQ exercise an undue influenc_felecor.4°
vote of Sergeant McKinley, a pensioner, and ereetter
in the,cof
the said borough. From a statement
Whig newspaper it appeared that on the 4
19 soneri.
last General Thomas inspected the local Pen 00
Enniskillen, and had presented to thirteen Pen trio o°oi
vereigns, telling the sergeant
who had served in the 27th Regiment, a suns sel
u and
v ,00
them bad votes ho expected they would 9 rand
Whiteside. M`Kinley had refused 50 d° ghGi-e*iieral 'IP();
the pensioners passed out of the barracks. that be 0,,,e
and said man shook his fist at- the sergeant,involve the
a disgrace to his comrades. The question
intter, and be
freedom of the subject in an important Ine
saws
hoped the Noble Lord would give some Mforra
010
regard to it.
(NI Finley) that 1
of LthoordooNorAseAaSdothpoteudghbtyhtehohafidosoone.me reemabsoonr. towin°:he:fffeecostr
Member had given notice of a question serio,o,B.4cter
in g the character of an officer of as high a eno,sl.oo 00
any man in her Majesty's service, and had pr
letter
rr
ignrounds s
pfuopre hisr. Mt tchmanberanhadan;Jtate;l.
allowed him time to communicate with the or
ThsetatHemone.n
General on the subject, and of course under Tosco'
cuenstances he could not say anything as to the ter.. Gil'
Lion. From his knowledge of the character of
.I.,7leciel
lent General, he must, however, say, that he bel_iutory to,
would never be found committing an act
the character of an officer. Unless the Hen• r.ootirl.
brought the question forward on more 8044.4 lu
dere:4l44re
....sounds, he could not consider himself bee'

notice it.
es
Colonel RAWDON said his attention had beenho 00
to -the subject, and though he did not believe I,', efef
officer of the character of General Thomas wotnu to
be guilty of such an indiscretion as that referred Ivn '
thought inquiry called for.
Mr. S. CRA WFORD said he had received a %IifS"
r
letter corroborating the statement in the newsPnP;io
Major BERESFORD could never refuse illjoo'
when good grounds were shown for it. VI gale'
Memb- r had produced no other authority for 11'6
went than an anonymous letter to a newspaper.
After a few words from Sir H. VERNEYti,o, 1);e1,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQU' ns
think that inquiry should be granted on allegaT)theil‘
an anonymous letter in a newspaper. He did o°,oneid
it was the duty of the Government to grant an I jell/
on such grounds. Nay, more, he did not think 0001
rbe duty of a Member to prefer charges on sash graell'Ati
—(Hear, hear.) He could not believe that the ,0
bel
General had acted as ho had been represented to
done. If the charge was made in an autboh
manner, he would be preparei to meet it. e4O
e
Sir F. T. BARING (nu not take the 081, detfm
the Right Hon. Gentleman had done of We
er AP!
Government in cases like this. He was rl-libf 'et;
alined to agree with the opinion expresse"i, es:A.
late Sir Robert Peel with reference to the rtl
~;
on by the Duke of York, that inquiry should -.000;
into every complaint, even to those made 00:4
mous authority. He had never y Wet heard to o,e
not the duty of a Government to make V" ts'''
they found a paragraph in a newspaper imperrge tbeijo
conduct to public officers. He had himself 132 tbe ho
once made such inquiries. He re el not say t"osiecsrel
no wish to cast imputations on the Gallant fose,to
question; but when a Member of that House,' to e.o/
stated that an interference bad been alleges was
taken place with the freedom of election, ft ioqlls
satisfactory to be told that it was not deservingnesslios
Mr. HUME said he looked upon that as ae-cliagtol
n
of oonsiderahk, importance. If ereti Iv°e°o ja
those which were alleged to have taken Pinfea tber
instance were to pass unnoticed and uncheelbis ate
could be nothing like independent elections in„,000 clu,bs
try. In his opinion his Hon. Friend bed " of "le
right 'in bringing the matter under the notionwuld ico
House; and he hoped that the GovernnienlA ,hetsild
quire into the case, and that if they should fin'oceels
an abuse had occurred they would take the
°
steps for preventing its recurrence. 030 tieA
The subject was then allowed to drop, and I°l'
neat
of the adjournment of the House till Thursday
agreed to.
,„se' ed
The adjourned debate on Maynooth was Ne
resumed at twelve o'clock on Friday next. .010
THE DIPLOMATIC SERVICEEeieg 1-
On the order of the day being moved for 11""
Committee on the Civil Service Estimates, „. the ;6%
Mr. E WART rose for the purpose of calln3poitat'es
tention of the House to the expediency of inoldsto
examinations and a test of the competency of °wilt t.
for situations in the diplomatic service. 1ie.,005 Pe,,
that it would be absurb to subject to examinstobssL'
sons sent to represent this country as foreign; adTc;
dors. But he believed that we might, with grett
tage, require young men entering the diploma-f sae be
to undergo proper examinations. A system °- la to
nation was a present established in this countrj4 10,4
Exche, the Customs, the nary, and the East 1
b.,
Company's service; and the Duke of Virelliegrivith:
roe ,ntly, with very much to his own honour, antrtroof,',
very enlightened regard to the efficiency of ot!._. 0034
established examinations 'or ung off cers in 048 0080°.
He though that the time had come when t'ellotioo,
also to subject to examinations candidates fort 1104
in our diplomatic service. He hoped the Big_ oto_n
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequvt;ll.o nos
ed,
hold out to him some hope that that reform 20eneft
be etr,cted, if, indeed, it Lai not been alreadyTodoirer
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUF-4„ iteetiiu„l.
the imponaece of the subject which the 131„c"_itise,
11Pd
had brought under the attention of the Jau h
eStB-Ijs
aesrt!rf
though no precise form of examination to e
for the diplomatic service, it would be anw
the 6~
pose that it was exempted from the tendeneY the )r
to improved education end mental CO tiVatl°ol3l3',9 of t:ti
fluenco of which was felt, in all o her departni eeros' .
public service. For a con.iderabls period arran; Of
;0
bad existed, and we re in operation, wlth reePeeirtetho
pointreents to diplomatic ffiee,, the wholev. _or
.o_,
welch was to improve the diplomatic ser ion
013
country and to give it the character of a„Pg'ifero
The eihrts 9f the Now Leo the xember te_

~-

i this direction merited the highest commendation.
It was also due to the Eerl of Aberdeen to state, that
when he held the seals of office, he sedulously oc-
cupied himself to effect the same object. It was the
Noble Earl's conviction that it was our duty to
make the diplomatic service a pro'ession. To carry
that object into complete effect, a formal education
would, of course, be necessary.— (Haar.) To a cer-
tain degree the principle had boon deeelep.ed. Attached
to the universities were classes for the study of the
Oriental languages, and those of the students who had
distinguished themselves by their proficiency were ap-
Tointed to offices connected with our eastern embassies.
he present Government had had but little opportunity
yet of directing their attention to all the points connected
with the subject, but there existed evcry disposition on
their parts still further to develop the principle laid down
by their predecessors. Having said this much, he would
take the liberty of reminding the House that the expe-
rience of momentous years had proved the diplomacy of
England to be inferior to no other branch of the public
service. In confirmation of this statement, it was ne-
cessary to refer merely to the great events in which the
Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton distinguished him-
self in the years 1839 and 1840, and which were com-
monly spoken of as the settlement of the East. Those
events furnished evidence that the British Go•
vernmeut was able to obtain the most accurate
inforrnstioa under very trying circumstances.
It was mainly owing to the admirable infor-
. oration and dexterity of our diplomatic service
at that time that our then Foreign Minister—who, how-
ever, was quite equal to the occasion—was enabled to
avail himself of circumstances and to bring the business
to a successful issue. More recently, again, during the
events which convulsed Europe from 1848 to 1851, our
diplomatic service defied the competition of the diplo-
macy of all other countries, if, indeed, it did not excel
them all. He did not recall these matters to the recol-
lection of the House by way of answer to the Hon.
Member'e reasoning; on the contrary, he concurred in
the lion. Member's views. There was no reason why
our diplomatic service should not be an educated ser-
vice, and subjected to the influence of the spirit of im-
provement which governed the whole conduct of the na-
tion, and influenced every department of the State.—
(Hear, hear.) All he desired was, that the House and
the public-should not run away with the idea that, in
consequence of the want of a formal education for the
diplomatic service, the country was not ably served. The
country was most ably served. No diplomacy had ac-
complished greater results, saved more of the public mo-
ney, or contributed more to the national honour.
LIG HT DUES.
Mt...HUME said he wished to call the attention of the
House to the light dues levied on the commercial ship-
ping, and especially to the correspondence between the
United States minister and Viscount Palmerston, laid
before Parliament on the 13th day of February, 1851.
The Hon. Member said he had always advocated the
abolition of the corn laws; but he had advocated it on
the distinct understanding that our shipowners should be
relieved from every burden that exposed them to an un-
fair competition with the shipowners of foreign coun-
tries. The charge for the light dues amounted alto-
. gether, he believed, in the United Kingdom, to nearly
300,000/, a year. But if the light-houses of England,
Ireland, and Scotland were placed under the direction of
One board and properly managed, it appeared, from the
evidence taken before two ommittees of that House,
that they would .not cost more than from 80,0001. to
90000/, a year. In the United States, where there were
three times as many lighthouses as we had in these
kingdoms those establishments did not cost the shipping
of the country a single farthing. Under the system
which at present prevailed in the United Kingdom, a
Vessel which took a single ton of goods from one port to
another was liable to the whole amount of the light dues
as much as if she had taken hundreds of tons of goods.
That was an evil which evidently required a remedy.
Mr. DUNCAN said, that having been a Member of
the Committee on the light dues in 1845, he wished to
add a few words to the observations of his Hon. Friend
the Member for Montrose. It was proved before that
Committee that the aggregate revenue derived from the
lighthouses of the United Kingdom amounted, is the
Year 1832, to 240,304/. ; the cost of collection, to 22,1251.;
and the expense of keeping up the lights, to 74,8321.;
and by the then-last published returns it was shown that
there were, in 1843, 150 lights in Great Britain and Ire-
land, the amount paid for which by the shipping interest
Was not less than 356,9051., the coat of collection being
15,8141.—a considerable reduction as compared with the
preceding period—and the expense of maintaining the
lights to 131,0301.; thus levying a tax upon the mer•
oantile shipping alone, over and above the expense of
keeping up the lights, of 225,8751. To illustrate the
hardship with which the light dues bore upon particular
interests, the Hon. Gentleman then referred to the
ease of the Dundee Shipping Company, trading between
that port and London. The manager of that company
being called before the Committee, stated that the per-
centage which the light dues bore to the nett profits di-
visible among the proprietors of the stock amounted to
not less than 63.3, and that the total amount which that
~"rePany alone paid in light dues was 2,0561 14s. 2d. a
~,JPlr. He also instanced the case of the Aberdeen Ship-
r`og Company, the manager of which stated to the Com-
mittee that the charges for light dues amounted to 51
Per cent. upon the divisible profits of the company. It
Was, he believed, a notorious fact, that, so far as the
e
°asting trade was concerned, many of the companies
Were at the present moment actually losing money, in
consequence of the burden which those light dues were
Upon them; and it was only a short time ago that the
t
,epowners of his burgh met in common hall to consider
n subject, and there was scarcely a single individual
present who stated that he had received a farthing divi-
..end from that trade for years past. In his opinion
era ese r dues were a burden upon the mercantile marine,
ra which they ought to be exempted.
to
Mr.l; FORSTER said it was admitted that relief ought
e given; but the question was, in what way ? For
himself he contended that it was the' duty of every coun-
try to light
w up its own shores. They pay it in effect;
more thanes in a roundabout way. The shipowners paid
and the •
timthey ought to pay for maintaining the lights,
e was arrived when something should be done
in this matter. If Government would not take off the
Whole burden, they might at least lay it on in a more
equitable manner. g
Mr. HENLEY. said this subject was one of transcen-
dant •
importance to the shipping interest; but he was
surprised at the tone and manner in which this appeal
had been made. They were told they ought to do this,
Pbecause they were friends of the shipping interest. But
on. Gentlemen on the other side of the House should
tilts
pressed it upon their friends when in office. That
Ws burden should be laid upon the country in an equi-
table manner was a proposition that could not be denied;
but the question was, what was equitable? All the
lion. Members who had spoken said it would be more
easy to adjust the payment than to sweep it away alto-
gether. The shipping interest desired to get rid of this'
tax of about 300,000/. a year. There was no doubt that
a large sum went towards liquidating the debt caused
by buying up private rights.
Mr. HUME—That's due to the Treasury.
Mr. HENLEY—There's a sum of about 150,000/. still
to be paid on account of this sum advanced, and that is
included in the general charge, which, he was afraid,
must continue for some few years longer. The Hon.
Member for Montrose held up the American system for
their example, but the American Secretary, in reporting
to their board, did not express his sense of their advan-
tage in having a central management of light-houses
under the con troul of Government. He said they were
not so efficient as the interests of humanity demanded,
and he went on to say that their establishment upon the
score of economy, did not compare favourably with the
light system of Europe. He thought the light vessels
should remain at their mooriegs in bad weather, that
Was an advantage which they had obtained in this coun-
try- Their lights and their buoys were not so efficient
as in this country. Neither their light vessels kept the
!ea, nor were their buoys so efficient.—(Hear.) Their
system was not characterized by so much economy.
IS was a difficult and important subject, and from the
moment he came into office he had turned his attention
to it. He felt the shipping interest was in a depressed
uo ndition, and it would be his anxious desire if he could
see any way of relief compatible with other interests to
give them relief in respect of this burden.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he had given this subject
his best attention, but it was a question beset with diffi-
tilties; and he did not, when in office, hold out any
poPe. that it would be dealt with in the present Par-
:sines:lL A reduction had been effected on this subject,
i° far as the coasting trade was concerned, to three-
ourths of the total amount paid. That was a relief ob-
twined within the last three or four years.— Bear.
they'Ley had no option but to adopt a liberal policy, for if
: excluded the ships of other nations from the ad-
vantages they had accorded to them, the consequence
freights
be that they would retaliate. It was stated that
eleighte had fallen. No doubt they had fallen like other
'lnge, but there was nothing to fear for the superiority
of the mercantile marine of this country. This was
evident from the fact that more ships were now built
than at any former period ; and they were of the first
eracter, and were of such superior construction, that
ships now built on the Clyde took the prizes from the
American clippers. When he saw the building yards
so fully employed, he could not come to any other con-
: aonbut that persons who so fully understood their
business would nott t
invest their capital in shipping, if
they did not find
i
Mr. DPGREGOR saoi( frothtllie the ir advantage.
consideration be had
given to this subject he had come to the conclusion that
the light dues ought to be de frayed from the Consoli-
dated Fund. They ought to follow the example of the
United States in that respect. A tonnage duty must of
necessity be unequal and unsatisfactorp He could not
bat bear testimony to the services r
e
sons Gentleman who spoke last, in ered by the Right
a debt
tdopting a liberal
Policy. The country owed him
of gratitudea for
What he had done while at the Board ofTrade r
mdae to pro-
Mete the welfare of the shipping interest.
clacredit
Was due to him for the relief he gave to the
trade
thought it° the
advantageous in reducing the light dues. With regard to
howevwers
Modification of the navigation-laws, he
advantageous as far as it went. His opinion,
was that they ought to be repealed altogether; and with
respect to the mercantile marine, he could state that
good ships were never more in demand than they wore
at present. In fact, there was a great deficiency in the
TSupply nf ships to convey emigrants to South Australis.
rgreat demand for ships might be attributed to the
odiblsfieatioa which had taken place in the navigation..
„aws• The best way was to leave the shipowners to ma-
erge their ow affairs, and to free them from all inter-
t:xenee in thneir concerns. With the raw materials un-
,;141, they could compete with the whole world.
The subject then dropped.
POSTAL SERVICE TO INDIA AND CHINA.
~,teord JOCELYN rose to call• the attention of the
nao to the tenders which were accepted from the
ninsular and Oriental Steam•packet Company on the
-971 h of February for the performance of the postalnd ser-
vice between England,
kiventiptioe ofhi . India, and China. He had not
lAtehtiolz to call attention to the sub-

ject without communication with commercial parties in
this country, as well as with parties in India. He
doubted whether Parliament was justified in making
those grants which it had been in the practice of
making, so as to create a monopoly in favour of those
companies which received the grants. The people of
this country had a right to ask whether they received
an equivalent.—(Flear.) He spoke not from surmise,
but from facts. The effect of the large grant of 270,0001.
which Wa3 ma de of the public money was to prevent
competition. He thought the House would agree that,
although they were not bound to act in accordance
with the recommendations of the Committee on this
subject, yet that the House and the Government ought
to give some consideration to its recommendations,
more especially when the report was adopted unani-
mously by the Committee. If the Government
put forward proposals, they were bound to ac-
cept parties tendering according to those proposals, with-
out showing any bias towards one company over another.
Were any such bias manifested, it would at once raise
doubts in the m'nds of men as to how far they were ho-
nestly and fairly dealt with by the Government. The
service to India had been performed for the last six
years by the Peninsular and Oriental Company; and the
contract for the year 1853 was for the sum of 280,000/.
In the eluts° of the last two years various reports had
reached the country that many evil effects had resulted
from this monopoly, and it was stated that the company
had not taken advantage of the great improvements in
steam navigation, which they ought to have done; and
there were various other charges as to the mode in
which the service was conducted. Last year he thought
it his duty to move for the appointment of a Committee
India and China, and into the practicability of to inquire, into the existing steam cornatunicalons with
effect-
ing any improvement therein, and also into the best
mode of establishing steam communications between
England, India, China, Australia, and New Zea-
land. On that Committee there were three
members of Sir R. Peel's Government, three members of
the late Government, and two who were of the present
Government. That Committee entered into the whole
question of steam communication with the various parts
of the world. The Committee came to an unanimous
report, to which he might hereafter allude. Evidence
was given to the Committee of the great inconvenience
suffered by the public on the line traversed by the com-
pany. Applications were made to the Committee from
Manchester and Liverpool that in future contracts the
parties should be tied down by stringent rules in respect
to various matters, as to the comfort of the passengers.
The Committee had also evidence that the trade and
commerce in the course of the last few years had in-
creased rapidly on that line. Taking these matters into
consideration, they thought they were justified in re-
commending that. Government should interfere to tie
down the parties to more stringent rule, and also that
competition should be established, by which a large in-
crease of trade and commerce might be produced along
the line. The report stated that in November, 1851,
tenders were called for by the Government under the
following heads:—
" First Line—A line from England to Alexandria and
back, monthly, leaving England in the beginning of
every month, and calling at Gibraltar and Malts, with
a branch from Marseilles to Malta and back, conveying
between those two ports the mails which are carried
across France. Second Line—A similar line from Eng-
land to Alexandria and back, monthly, leaving England
in the middle of every month, with a similar branch be-
tween Marseilles and Malts. The ports in England
from which the vessels are proposed to start (subject to
the approbation of the Lords Commissioners of the Ad-
miralty) are to be specified in the tender. It is to be
clearly understood that the times of departure may be
fixed and altered from time to time by the Admiralty,
an interval of about a fortnight being left between the
days of departure of the two lines. If circumstances
should render it advisable to substitute any other ports
in the Mediterranean for Marseilles and Malta, the
Admiralty to be at liberty to do so on payment of a
reasonable compensation to the contractors for any
additional expense incurred. Third Line—A line
from Suez to Calcutta and Hong Kong and
back, monthly. This line will take the mails which
have left England in the beginning of each month,
and will touch at Aden and Point de Galle, whence
one steamer will proceed by Madras to Calcutta and
another by Penang to Singapore and Hong-Kong. These
steamers will be met at Aden, both on the outward and
homeward voyages, by vessels of the 'East India Com-
pany, which will convey the mails and passengers be-
tween Aden and Bombay. Fourth Line—A similar
line from Suez to Calcutta and Hong. Kong and back,
monthly, conveying the mails which have left England
in the middle of the month, and proceeding in like
manner to Point de Galle, and thence by Madras to
Calcutta, and by Penang to Singapore and Kong-Kong.
Vessels of the East India Company will leave Suez at
the same time, carrying the Bombay mails and passen-
gers; and the return mails from Bombay will likewise
be conveyed in vessels of the East India Company to
Sues. Fifth Line—A line from Singapore to Sydney
and back. Every alternate month a steamer to leave
Singapore on the arrival of the outward packet at that
port with the mails which have left England in the mid-
dle of every alternate month, and to leave Sydney so as
to meet at Singapore the homeward packet which will
arrive there from China, after the lapse of two months.
These steamers are to touch both ways at Batavia, Swan
River (or King George's Sound, as may be hereafter de-
termined), Adelaide, and Port Philip.
Two parties tendered, viz.—the Eastern Steam Naviga-
tion Company, and the Peninsular and Oriental Steam
Navigation Company. Those two companies had a right
to expect that their proposals should be fairly considered
and that the basis of the terms stated by the Government
should not be changed. It was stated that the tender
of the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Company was ac-
cepted for the whole service; but that was not correct.
From England to Alexandria they tendered for; from
Suez to Calcutta and Hong-Kong, touching at Aden and
Point de Galle, they tendered for; but for No. 4 they
did not tender; tied they wholly omitted the line from
Suez to Calcutta and Hong-Kong, proceeding to Point
de Gallo, and thence by Madras to Calcutta, and by Pe-
nang to Singapore and Hong-Keng. The letter making
this tender to the Treasury was received by the Govern-
ment on the 26th of February, almost at a time when
the Government were out of office, and the tender was
accepted by the Government on the 27th of February.
He must, therefore, repeat that the mode in which
the tender was accepted, whether right or wrong, was
calculated to shake the confidence of any party who
might be disposed to offer tenders of this character to
the Government. He asked the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he did not think the
subject was too far advanced for reconsideration to direct
his attention to it, in order that justice might be done to
all parties.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
that he proposed to confine himself strictly to the ques-
tion at issue, and not to enter into the more general
question whether it were expedient for Governments to
assist great enterprises like these steam companies with
grants of public money. To set out with, he must
frankly acknowledge that the present Government was
entirely responsible for the arrangement which in this
case had been made. This was, in fact, the first official
act which he bad transacted, and it had been brought
under his notice quite unshackled by any arrangements
of his predecessor. He had given to it his most undi-
vided and complete attention, and the decision at which
he had arrived was the result of the most careful atten-
tion he could devote.—(Hear, hear.) On the Ist of
November, 1851, the late Chancellor of the Exchequer
made the following proposal to the East India Com-
pany:-1, a line from Southampton to Alexandria twice
a month, with a branch from Marseilles to Malta, to be
performed by contract, her Majesty's ships being discon-
tinued; 2, a line from Suez to Point de Gallo, and thence
to Madras and Calcutta, twice a month, and a second
line from Point de Galle to Singapore and Hong-Kong,
with a branch every second month from Singapore to
Sydney, and twice a month from Aden to Bombay; 3,
to be performed by contract with one or more compa-
nies, with the exception of the branch from Aden to
Bombay, which was to be performed by the East India
Company; 4, that the payment of the contract service
beyond the Isthmus of Suez should be charged on the
revenue of this country and of India in the same propor-
tion as at present; 5, that this country should contri-
bute a sum to the East India Company for the perform-
ance of the service between Aden and Bombay, calculated
according to the nature and difficulty of the service per-
formed. The East India Company assented to these
terms by letter of the Bth of November, 1851. On the
18th of November, 1851, the Treasury desired
the Admiralty to call for tenders for the bi-monthly per-
formance of the service. This concladed the negotia-
tion so far as his predecessor in office was concerned.
On the 29th of February, 1852, the Admiralty reported
to the Treasury that they had received three tenders,-
1, from the Peninsular and Oriental Company, for the
li9o9n,e6dooiln.,ththe
hchoudreitdiuocus
of whole of the mail services advertised, with the addition
not a mentioned
line between Bombay and Point de Galle,
doftotenl
sum of tender, for
after
completion of the railway across Egypt; 2, from the
Eastern Steam Navigation Company, for a line once a
month between England and Calcutta
and Hong-Kong,
for 110,0001., to be reduced to 100,000/. in the event of
Trieste being substituted for Mars eill
barkation; 3, one from the same eea as a port of em•
between Singapore and Sydney, ino ma g
da h^ y for a branch
Won to the line
previously mentioned. Adding then 100,0001. to 166,000/.
he made the lowest tender of the Eastern
gation Company amount to 266,0001, again:tealm Navi-
the lowest tender of the other company, being a 79,d6100/.,
ff
eace of 86,400/. Under these circumstances he had
decided in favour of the latter company. The tender
of this latter company was at the rate of 6s. 6d. per
mile, without the additional branch they had
volunteered to perform between Bombay and Point
de Galle, while that of the Eastern Steam Navi-
gation Company was at the rate of Bs. a-mile in their
first tender, and 10s. on the average of their second.
These facts having been brought before him, he had
only one other point to consider, which was to ascertain
whether the offer which was the cheapest was equally
efficient with the other. Tnat inquiry had been made.
The result of it was that the Peninsular and Oriental
Company appeared in this respect to be even preferable
to the other, and upon the sth of March of the present
year the Treasury approved of the tender of that com-
pany, and desired the Admiralty to carry it into effect.
That was his • ' story. hadh dto obtain the
simple _2
best s •
ervlce, and he had obtained it at the cheapest rate.
—(Hean) Within an hour of his • taking his seat in
Downing-st
„ reet, he hadreceived deputation from the
t. a Eastern Steam Navigation and their case had
been so well placed gatlon Company, .
before him sure it was
that he was from no neglect on the eted with
their affairs that he meritspart of those intru .
been well etteeeteet. nf the question had noti
However, after having given t
matter the most impartial consideration, he had de-
termined upon giving the tender
to the company which would at once most effieio and economically perform the service -te(etilt " most
• ) He
hoped that, as far as the preoeut Go
antYermwere con-

THE SUN,.

LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING,

Government, ho said, had promised an inquiry into the
case.

Mr. HORSMAN observed he had not said so.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that was the in-
ference to be drawn—but he could show there was no
breach of faith on the part of the Government. The
Government could not pledge itself to appoint a com-
mission, for that commission so appointed could not
compel evidence to be given, and it coul,i not, therefore,
but end in a total failure. As to the law of the case, ho
did not wish to give a silent acquiescence. As far as
the H in. Member (Mr. Horsman) had gone, he bad
stated the law correctly. It A instituted a clergyman,
that institution could not be questioned. The law gave
him a discretion, and he (the Attorney-General) was
not aware it could be questioned.—(Hear, hear.) A
clergyman, however, had an appeal against the
bishop, and if it appeared he was wrong, his decision
could be overruled.—(Elear, hear.) His Right Hon.
Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer rightly said,
that if a clergyman exhibited unsoundness of doctrine
it could be inquired into under the Church Discipline
Act, if it took place within two years. The bishop of
the diocese might send the case to the Bishop's Court;
but for any offence committed above two years out of the
country no remedy could be obtained. He thought the
Howe would agree that the course pursued by the Go-
vernment was the correct one.—(Hear, hear.) To have
issued a commission which did not
possess compulsory
powers would have been a complete fafailure.—(Hear.)Mr. HORS MAN explained that he had no desire to
create discussion, and he was obliged to the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Attorney-General for his opinion on the
law of the case.
Sir J. YOUNG thought the Government had done all
that could have been expected, No law had been in-
fringed, but there was a difference between a congrega-
tion as to points of doctrine—one believed one thing,
and one believed another—no unsoundness having been
found—would the House of Commons take part with
the minority against the authorities which had been re-
cognised? On full consideration of the case, the House
would plainly see that the House of Commons was not
the place to determine such a case. Better they should
abstain from it, and should confine themselves to their
proper duties.—(Hear.)
Colonel KNOX said the Hon. Member had thrown out
a taunt that the Government had not made an inquiry.
Had the Hon. Gentleman himself inquired into the
statements he had made as to the conduct of Mr. Ben-
nett at Kissengen and at Venice? He knew the Hon.
Gentleman was in possession of a letter on the subject,
and that long ago he should have retracted the state-
meat. It was on the authority of a letter from Sir J.
Harrington that he had made that statement. He knew
the substance of the letter, and nothing could be more
unfair and unfounded. He was able to say that the
statement was altogether unfounded that had been made
against Mr. Bennett—namely, that he did not go to a
Protestant church, but to a Roman Catholic church,
when, at the same time, the fact was notorious that be
was in ill health and drinking the waters, and every one
knew that any one drinking these waters would not be
in a condition to go to a Roman Catholic church at seven
o'clock in the morning.—(A laugh.) As to the time
that had been stated that Mr. Bennett had been absent,
he (Colonel Knox) knew that he left in the month of
June, and returned in November. With regard to Ve-
nice, he was himself there at the time, and he knew
therefore that that part of the statement was untrue,
and he could prove that all the time Mr. Bennett was
at Rome he had attended a Protestant church.—(Hear,
hear.) Mr. Bennett had for some time been bis
(Colonel Knox) pastor, and he would not sit there
and allow such unfounded statements to remain uncon-
tradicted.—(Hear' hear.)
Mr. HORSMAN could assure the Hon. Gentleman
that he had made no statement respecting Mr. Bennett's
conduct in Venice; he was not even aware (as was
understood) that he had been there. With respect to
Mr. Bennett's absence from England, he had stated that
he was absent during the year 1851, not that he was so
during the whole year.—(lronical cheers.)
Sir B. HALL said that mention having been made of
the Bishop's Court, he wished to state concisely what
that tribunal. was. The Ecclesiastical Court of Bath and
Wells consisted of a judge, a registrar, and a proctor.
The judge who was to decide on cases such as that of
the vicar of Frome had been an officer in the Grena-
dier Guards, and having left the army, was made pre-
bendary of the cathedral and judge in the Ecclesiastical
Court, although knowing no more of ecclesiastical law
than the drummer of my Hon, and Gallant Friend's
regiment. Of course he could not perform the duty,
but appointed as his deputy one of those hacks of the
cathedral called minor canons, at a salary of 201. a year.
The name of this pesson was Peter Parley, and he was
by law obliged to post up in his office a list of the fees
to be charged in this court. The registrar was a metro-
politan police magistrate, the son of a former bishop,
and was appointed when only fire years old. From
that time to the present, he had never been within the
walls of his registry, except to receive his sti-
pend. To quote the expression which had been used in
evidence, he " farmed out his court" at 4001. a year to
Peter Parley, who, with the fees, and also with the de-
puty fees which he charged, made the plane worth 8151.
a year for himself. He hung tip
no table of fees, but
made arbitrary charges. There were seven proctors in
this court, one of whom was Edward Parley, Ben of the
deputy, so that if he had any business in court, he must
plead before his own father, who farmed his place from
the chief. And yet this was the court to which the pa-
rishioners of Frome must go if they have any complaint
against their pastor. The deputy-registrar practised
in twenty-five other courts, of one of which, a diaconal
court, a young lady was the president, the daughter of
the dean, and who also had been appointed when she
was only five years old.—(Laughter.) He(Sir B. Hall)
was bound to say that some change had been made since
last year, for the deputy.:
Judge, the son of the late
bishop, had turned Roman Catholic, and had therefore
been obliged to give
111) his appointment. But the pre-
sent bishop, into whose court the parishioners must go,
had appointed hie own son, who lived at
Castle Rising, in
Norfolk, and in ;his case
also the poor miserable hack canon did all
the duty. Ho asked them, was it not a farce to tell
part of the nineteenth century a tribunal was allowed to
gowionuteidsiutcbtie abelcioeuvredtet—haTionudoceril
exist which would be considered a disgrace in any civi-
lizsd nation? Such was the tribunal to which the
cries
stteert
Right
"Hear, cps people
phlsea hear."
Hon. Gentleman told them to go instead of coming to
Parliament. He (Sir B. Hall) said that Parliament was
the proper tribunal, and be trusted that what he was
stating would make an impression, and prevent the con-
tinuance of this atrocity in the Church. He hoped that
the infamy of these Ecclesiastical Courts would be cured,
and that a Minister of the Crown would not be per-
mitted to tell the parishioners of Frome that into such
a court they must go to •Puseyite
complain of their
pastor.—(Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied
that he had said the parishioners must go for redress
into the Ecclesiastical Court. The tribunal to which
he had alluded was that which created under the
was .
Church Discipline Act, which was expeditious, and, in
its expenses, adapted to the s • pirit of the age. The Hon.
Baronet might as well have described some of the courts
of India, and applied his e ergument to the case of the
parishioners of Frome.
o
Sir B. HALL rose to order. the lf Right Hon. Gen-
tleman was allowed t address the House a second time,
he must claim the right of
of
The CHANCELLOR,t.
the EXCHEQUER having
read the words of the motion, claimed the indulgence of
the House, after the manner in which he had been at-
tacked. He would merely add that as the Honourable
Member for Cockermouth bad been fortunate enough to
secure an early day for going into, the case of Mr.
Bennett at length, it was hardly fair to keep the House
hour.
from Supply by prolongie g a discussion at that late

that the
B. HALL, amid loud cries of " Spoke," said that
he would not have addressed the House bad he not
given the Right Hon. Gentleman
previous notice that
of Bath and Wells.
he intended to call the at
of the House to the
drawn no more than a true, al
thought very pungent, pic-
ture of the state of those uHe (Mr, Henley) had
been member of a Committee to He
into their con-
°i the fHtEheNdLioEcyesaandcmoiuttertda
and could confirm the
stitution,
Hon. Baronet's state-
ment.—(Hear, hear.) But it was not fair of the Hon.
Baronet to let it go forth to the country that that was
Hon. Baronet had
the only court to which the parishioners of Frome could
go,
incaliCo urt that the
of Arch erops.er court of appeal was the pro-

An HoN. MEMBER, whose game
defended Mr. Bennett, and stated that could not learn
hin,
favour had been signed by 1,039 of tt a memorial is
tween Thursday and Monday, and his Parishioners, be-
rev. gentleman's knowledge. entirely without the
realists
The HON. MEMBER read the pr.,
rial, which stated that the mensorTer of the memo-
with the injuries inflicted on the sympathised
gentleman, and
concurred in the soundness of the%
by him. 000trines taught
On the motion that the Speaker do leave the Chair,
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to
into Committee
of Supply at that late hour (20 minuttfa
of
time and as
objected to many items of the l estimates; one). He
the Government had had abundance
them, he should receive them as their line to consider
estimates, and
deal with them without reference to the reasons which
had procured the speedy passing of the naval
and mili-
tary estimates. The civil estimates now
the to
4,182,0001., being 240,0001. more than in
He hoped the Government would not past year.
them. proceed with
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
did not
think of proceeding with the estimates at that h
must give notice that on Thursday next,our but
taking the New Zealand Bill, he should move instead of
mates in Committee of Supply. Ove the esti-
GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTa BILL.
On consideration of this Bill as amended, LL.
Mr. MILES moved---'. That the Act shall apply to all
the boundary of the district of Burnham, assigned
the provisional order of the General Board Health by
o
excepting those parts respectively ate withinthe'
situ
tithiegs of Huish orta Highb T.ridge, and vt,
orston."
p
Mr. HAYTER opposed the proviso, which he said w
opposed to tne wishes of the inhabitants of the district,"
who were in favour of the Bill as it now stood.
Mr. MILES said a memorial was presented last session
to tho Board of Trade, to orchid() the district in u.
He hafl himself presented two petitions to th_ 3 ntion.
a House to
the same effect.
Lord J. MANNERS spoke against the amendment,
And after a few words from Sir G. PECUELL, the
proviso was negatived, and the Bill was ordered to be
read a third time.
The Navy Pay Bill was read a second time.
The Proclamation for Assembling Parliament 13111 was
read
lt, a third time and passed.
The Ecclesiastical Courts (Criminal true d' •
teti
1E on) Bill
was read a third time end Windt . . ,

MAY 99, 1852.

ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH COMPANIES.
Yesterday, on the re-assembling of the Committee—
Right Hon. Lord Hotham in the chair—
Mr. Highton, the engineer of the British Telegraph
Company, was examined relative to the improvements he
had patented in connexion with electric telegraphs. He
estimated the cost of his siglo wire telegraph at 251. per
mile. Theßritish Company had been pursued by the
old Telegraph Company into Ireland and across the chan-
nel by the projection of a rival submarine line from
Portpatrick to Donaghadee. The witness explained to
the Committee various ingenious improvements he had
made in connexion with electric telegraphs, of which
there were seueral beautiful models in the room.
Professor Brande, member of the telegraphic commit-
tee of the British ompany, and Mr. J. T. Cooper, pro-
fessor of chemistry, also of the committee, deposed that
they had examined the instruments invented by Mr.
Highton, and declared that they were improvements
upon any that had preceded them.
Mr. MERE WETHER then opened the case on behalf of
the electric telegraph system belonging to the South-
Eastern
Railway, against the Bill. The case of the
South-Eastern Rade av, he stated, was a totally distinct
and separate case from that of any other interest before
the Committee, and on their behalf he called on the
Committee not to pass a Bill of the unusual character
before it. An early understanding; had subsisted be-
tween the South-Eastern Railway and the
Government Company
Government that there should, continuously with the
gra
railway, be a network of tele
h. •
the south-eastern coast. itieSouth Eastern Railway
Company accordingly b su 6ctibed their own capital and
constructed their own telegraphs at a cost ot 50,000/,
en
and all they now asked the Committ
to allow them to be left alone, and
unintin fairness was,
the admission, nnder compuls ery pow erfer.ed with by
powers, of foreign or
not thoroughly solvent parties. This w
desirable as they had lately united their wires
the more
vetres with
a telegraph they had constructed to Brighton
the Brighton and South Coast Railway, the latter for
lag an annual rent. Charges of incorrectness had rbacy. n
mid° against the old Electric Telegraph Company,
bute
none had been made against the accuracy, punctuality,
or expense of the South-Eastern Company's telegraph;
and, separated as the system was from others, they
asked to be left free from extraneous control. The ex-
istence of that important international medium of com-
munication, the submarine telegraph, which, in conjunc-
tion with the South-Eastern, held the key to the corre-
spondence of the continent, made the proposal of con-
ferring the compulsory powers proposed in the Bill still
more objectionable. The Learned Counsel, after ob-
serving that the telegraph, though it had been worked
well for the public service, had not been remunerative,
called
Mr. Macgregor, chairman of the South Eastern Rail-
way, who was examined at considerable length. The
Honourable Gentleman described minutely the system
of electric telegraphs the South-Eastern Company bad
laid down at their own cost. The arterial line from
London to Dover was eight-eight miles, and the radia-
tions inland and skirting the coast, communicating with
all the Government depots, extended over 280 miles—in
fact, over the entire system of the South-Eastern Rail-
way. There were seventy-three telegraph stations
on the line, sixty-three of which were open to the
public. The cost per mile of the arterial line between
London and Dover was 2251 ; but experience had
shown that lines of telegraph could be constructed much
cheaper. The south-Eastern was the first extensive
system of telegraph established in this country, and the
promoters of it bore the burden of the greatest expense.
The actual capital expended for telegraphic construction
by the South-Eastern Company wa5.50,000/. Until re-
cently the charges were higher than at present, and were
at the rate of lid. per mile for twenty words, or at the
rate of a third-class passenger fare and a half per mile.
Then it was an experiment; but the charges had been
materially reduced since then. To insure accuracy in
the transmission, messages might be reFeated, and half
the original charge, if the parties wished to avail them-
selves of the repetition, was charged for it; but the only
case he knew in which a message was requested to be re-
peated was in that of an order from the Home-office, to
respite the hanging of a man at Maidstone.—(Laughter.)
The gross receipts of the South-Eastern telegraph, from
its opening on the Ist of January, 1846, to the 31st of
March last, had been 13,7941, and the gross expen-
diture charged to revenue 10,5421., leaving a ba-
lance of 3,2221. Commercially, these results put but a
very small sum into the pockets of the proprietors. The
13,7941. was for receipts from the public, excluding the
railway company's own messages and uses of the tele-
graph, for which no charge was made. Managed the
telegraph successfully in the public service without the
imputation of becoming rich. Had got it into great
perfection, and believed that perfection was as near as
anything human could be. There bad been a very
considerable increase in their business since the subma-
rine telegraph was opened, in conjunction with which
undertaking they had worked conveniently and well.
No fault whatever had been found with the submarine
telegraph since its opening. The South-Eastern had no
interest in the submarine. Attached the utmost im-
portance to the management of the telegraphic system
on the railway being entirely under their own control,
and was of opinion that it could not be reposed too ex-
clusively iirthe management of one set of hands. The
contractors of their permanent way would not be
responsible for its preservation and safe keeping
if foreign workmen in connexion with another
telegraph were introduced. Thought that in railway
and telegraphic management military discipline ought to
be enforced as far as possible. Four wires from London
to Dover were kept exclusively for through messages, and
with four more in connexion with the newly-opened
submarine telegraph could multiply messages several
fold over these wires without icconvenience. There was
ample room for a far greater accumulation of messages.
Could, in connexion with the licensees, lay down any
number of additional wires, but the posts upon the rail-
way would accommodate four more easily. Was there
to ask the Committee to separate the South-Eastern
Company from the propose measure, and leave them the
control of their own telegraphic system in their own
hands, and thought it would be a bard case if they could
not obtain vrotection for property invested in telegraphs
on their own railway, and also, which was a not less
important question involved in It, security for the public
and working of the railway..
Cross-examined by Mr. KEATING, Q. C.—The power
under which the South-Eastern worked their telegraph
and took charges for their own profit from the public
Was under an Act of Parliament, which allowed the te-
legraph in conjunction with the railway to be con-
structed for the use of Government. The original con-
tract for constructing the telegraph was with the old
Telegraiih Company, or rather with Mr. Cooke, a di-
rector, and -one of the stipulations was that no other
party wp ;to interfere with the patent on the South-
Eastern line. The dividend; paid in connexion with the
South-Eastern telegraph during the last year was so
small as to be almost infinitesimal.—(Laughter.) Since
December, 1851, had reduced the charges 100 per cent.,
the charge for twenty words between London and Dover
being reduced from lls. to 55., which latter was now the
general charge. Neither the charges nor other matters
connected with the old telegraph had anything to do
with the South-Eastern.
After some further statements in detail, the Com-
mittee adjourned.