The Sun.
London, England, 1852-04-24 00:00:00

with the present great facility of conamunican in with
Ireland, the troops there would be available, atd more
especially as there were 12,000 well armed and drilled
constabulary in that country. There was one point stated
by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary
which was more satisfactory, and that was, that there
was no urgency with regard to this measure, as our re-
lations with all foreign Settee were most amicable, and
in that opinion his Noble Friend (Lird John Russell)
sad the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton had
concurred, while Lord Derby in his first speech as
Prime Minister, had stated that although the army and
aavy were never is a higher state of efficiency, yet it
was necessary to increase our defences; but he added
that the present time was best adapted for
that purpose, because of the 'amicable relations
which existed between this country and foreign powers.
If that was so, there was no ground for any special
urgency as regarded this measure. The Hon. Gentle-
man proceeded to argue that the proper source of de-
fence to depend on in the case of invasion was the navy
and ho shoual prefer to see a proposition made for in-
creasing its efficiency. It hail been said that steam
power had multi lied the means of foreign attack en
this country, but let it he remoreb-red that attack must
be on a circumference from without a circumference, and
he believed that steam had equally added to the cepebi-
biliiies of our naval force, and that by means of that
power our navy would be able to observe, to blockade,
and to destroy any invading fl hills. The Government
by this measure propose to raise 80,000 men by means
of a bounty of 31. or 41. bat in no case to exceed 61, but
failing that there mint be recourse to the ballot, and
under what disturbance to the industry and morality of
the country they would hear in the course of oats dis-
cussion. The Right lien. Gentleman the Home Sec-e-
-tary appeared to be very sanguine as to the succ-a- of
the bounty, but he (Ilr. Rich) very much doubted its
being effective. It was probable that a number of dis-
contented people and vagabonds would take the bounty,
and not be forthcoming when they were wanted. The
system of paying substitutes also would neutralise the
effect of the bounty, for substitutes would cost mere
than any bounty, and at length it would be necessary
either to raise the bounty in proportion, or the ballot
must be enforced. The calling ow of men with families
for the militia would have the effect of increasing the
rates, and four-fifths of those rates would fall on the land.
The Hon, G ntlecnan then urged that the drill and train-
ing of the militia, as proposed, would not render the
men efficient for the object intended, that of repelling
invading troops, and therefore they could not be relied
on for the defence of the country. The Hon. Gentleman
proceeded to observe, that there were ample resources
already at hand in the country for all defensive pur-
poses. In the first place, volunteer corps ought
to be encouraged. In the next place, there were
the constabulary of the towns and the rural police,
who might be trained to the use of arms.
Thirdly, there were the pensioners; and, fourthly, there
were the dockyard battalions. On the whole, his calcu-
lation was that by these means a reserve force of 200,000
men might be raised and kept constantly ready, so as at
the shortest notice to be disposed over the country, and
on an emergency be concentrated on any given point, the
railways rendering this quite possible. The constabn-
lary would be 10,000, the rural police 15,000; together,
27,000. There would then be 10,000 of the dockyard
battalions; 13 000 of the pensioners, who no doubt,
however unfit for the field, would be the best gar-
rison troops. These combined gave a force of 50,000
men, two-thirds of whom would be able-bodied and
Active men, taken from the classes supplying the police,
and therefore of more than the usual intelligence.
In addition there would be the auxiliary force, either
established according to the present yeomanry system, or
what would probably be more convenient, maintained
exclusively upon a volunteer system; and the auxiliary
force (so we understood the Hon. Gentleman) would
make up the reserve force to 200.000 men. To such a
force the country would look with confidence, and in the
presence ot such a force foreign powers would admit our
impregnability. A militia—that is to say, a partially-
trained body—was a mistake, inasmuch as all history
proved that discipline onlycould contend with discipline.
If a war did break out, the best provision would we-
doubtedly be found in a military reserve, similar to that
adopted for the navy, for the bringing forward of which
the late Board of Admiralty deserved great credit, and
which he hoped would be carried out by the present.—
(Hear.) The system of a military reserve contained the
germ of a more humane and better system of treatment
ef the soldiers, and would prove more efficient and lose
expensive than a militia. The Hon. Member apologised
for having troubled the House at such length, but be had
felt it necessary to state fully the grounds on which be
opposed the Bill —(Hear, hear.)
The SPE kK4tt having put the motion and the
amendment,
Sir J. WALSH said he could not help congratulating
the Hon. Member who had addressed the House et such
great length on the prodigious relief it must have been
to the lion. Gentleman that the dissolution of the late
Ministry occurred so opportunely, to save him from
supporting a measure to which he entertained such
strong objectione.—(Mitiisterial cheers.) But the objec-
tions which the Hon. Gentleman had to the present
measure applied equally to that of the late Gevernmsne
He agreed with the Hon. Gentleman who had dilated
et such very great length against this Bill, that if they
could have a force of 80,000 men, fully armed and dis-
ciplined, well officered and embodied for months or
years, such a force would of course, in the nature of
things, be more efficient than the militia could be ex-
pected to be; but what the House had to consider was,
what was possible and what was practicable in the
existing state of things. This was only a precautionary
measure taken against a possibility which they trusted
might never arise. The Hon. Gentleman bad indeed
shadowed forth a great many different sources from
which a regular disciplined force might be obtained;
but be would beg to remind the Hon. Gentle-
man that all the measures he had suggested woule
certainly require a very considerable period of
time before they could be put in operation, while the
particular measure beferesthe House, intended as it was
to meet a possible emergency, must be carried out im-
mediately.—(Hear.) It was accordingly the object of
the Government to create, as soon as possible, such a
force as might be available in any each emergency. The
Hon. Gentleman seemed to have forgotten that when
this subject was first brought under the consideration ot
the House the principle of a militia force was almost
generally conceded by Hone Members. It was not only
argued for by the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton,
but ably supported by lion. Gentlemen who were then
on the Opposition side of the House. Now it appeared
that Hon. Members constituting the present Opposition
were getting up a cry against that very principle of a
militia, ageing which the House, previous to the late
change of Government, had not heard the single shadow
of on argument adduced.—(Hear.) There were two
grounds of opposition which might he taken to this
measure. There were those who were hardy enough to
deny the necessity of making any increase to our na-
tional defences whatever=-(Hear, hear)— who considered
that all prospect of danger from foreign aggression
Wes entirely chitnerical—(llear, bear)—and who con-
ceived that the state of the world was so completely
changed of late—that the nature of man was so
entirely altered—twat there was no reason to believe
that what bad prevailed since the beg nning of time
again,
namely, a state of war. The
consisted of these gentlemen
other would
celvaesrs prevail v
oah.i
„ ato r s
who quarrelled with the mode by which it was pro-
posed to augment the armed force of the country.
There was one part of the argument of the Hon. and
Gallant Gentleman opposite (Sir De Lacy Evans)
which appeared to him (Sir J. Welsh)
falloctous and
defective. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman referred
to the colonies, and sought to show that -ow+ 17 000 or
18,000 men who were occupied in garrison there were
at present entirely useless, and, in point of fact, a dead
toss te the country. lie would, however, remind the
Hon. and Gallant Gentleman that it was not in a time
of pence that the iieportanee of a body of armed anon
was appreciated. It was in time of war only that the
presence of troops became really advantageous; and if
a wet. were to take place they would require the service
of those troops itntnetiitrely
for the defence of our colo-
nies. There was one class of very ingenious persons
who were in the habit of addressing large bodies
people elsewhere, and aivocating the absurd doctrine
in spite of the experience of six thousand years, that
danger of war no longer existed in the world
Such persons ought not to forget that the lee
wars of the Revolution left two great legacies to Europe
v:z , ceirscription and the Natienal Guard. The cons.-

q ience of this was, that throughout the whole of th,
continent an immense military orgenix ition exiate I, and
that every nation was bristling with bayonets. It w -is
absurd to talk of " pears" .when the whole of Ea,op.•
has been fi ;biting for the last four or rive years. Bi 0 '
had fl ,we like witer, the cintinent had never been inoa
disturb..d than during the period. and the result
triumph of the military force over democratic
and anarchy. Th. immense armies which nowsel.
is
_t
and which the rulers of the different countries did •bt'f,
please or choose to di.bani, might at •any
me:er for the
turned against the country. The Hon. Ntwenahen
istten3pr...
West Riling had himself some tins scone, he subject
ing to lead the [Luse to adopt his m,tuiti on ,'
the previous.
of peace. Ranted out how frequent! during
had been on the very
ten or twelve years the country
r. a,, (Sir J. Walsh)
threshold of some very dangerous warn
such as the
4tVICO4,
must add more recently other eireni_rnm
these facts he
vivz 4ilB:tntecde
refugee and the Greek questions. From F
relations of this country
came to the conclusion that thin
nn United that they could
with other nations were e) --s1 from the dangers of
never consider themselveehe .
ase Was
war......(asar. hear.) Thiohr could induce any person to
existed
reluctant to say anything.
He was
,antslic
ea
an i
ad terhninneoa, ;tee
ferrtybiheeteini
dnepc)fvl syoer sifteeehitteealennt_
o w "y
5.
considered
the breast of the present ruler of
in 44 w
4 this c man%
bwb gehlii:e:4l et couldha
t`i less
b ed:haar sawe xi
I th na
t e
ruler did
a
Francs toward
~,e any present desire to engage in war with
this a wavy; ha,
.ter, great ability, great power of carrying oat his
Ohara. ,
owa objects with groat dexterity ald wisdom; and he
,tan:alasriletoi post thnliattit,lehtiatbatnai
fayi :lhrea. etpea; irit:tsVic-ier:utUnfirPadullF r
of HoFfirtafhnl:ll:o:,,enyraelebgatirt:
taootf
she
e t affairs
ehlieh of
e xeatsr e Europe
i l ew
hold up his fi iger, or engtge in a quarrel with England.
,h)
fe
thew i) uFI ,be back
French
enc
hitio:sish ipirie whole ihGnve,eritisepcnir,,int,oapnpiowsi:tlel
7peroeael
c:11
cv:i
yar ,
,I I:
getting
tetsidnli
4i
theWn 1 Bill i foil )vi
before themthe ianlstioiewhi led ad
did
l career.
n o
a pupp)ilo, ted
populari ft he yat:ioiuttgihhat they could
Ppolei that the eople of Fuel"
petrel to him to
the ono introiuoperbeiys mthaen
not be suicaptible of improvement, butnirtiehteharttr4eil:otnPoliocitvgaeh9trof:
tot "wohintai eys.ein,
heir.) Re approved of the principle of throwing
touvin4, ye.
e 'argot ) the batht, and coal I
the door to voluntary enlistment Previ%ve of. any ob
ylapte clots
G o
voefr
apcare9renrt.e n
(tio,pieri;
jecr,t. )n to giving fair trial to the ,v ,_„, ~I. (vie
Ulti4 10 tdived *odd bi ' perfecaY 3U‘l'co; 4' "1°

impertent leaeure of the B:il was that which ter'-led to
give increased sift rienci to the militia, in couseq recce of
its being ofli -erect by otli.e.rs connected with the regular
troops, The demands, elide upon the time of those who
would enlist in the militia would be but small, and he
did not believe that it would be considered unpopular.
He did not believe that the millennium had yet arrived,
and thought it desirable that the eff eta of the constant
preaching on the subject of pewee, by those who wished
only to emasculate the English claracter, should be
counteracted by the infusion of a little more of the mili-
tary spirit into the minds of the veople. He should,
therefore, give hie warm and cerdiel support to the se-
cond reeding of the Bill.—(Heir.)
Mr. F. PEEL said that although he bad been a mem-
ber of the late Giiieriimatit' aid although he was not tin
advocate of what the Hen.G-ntleman term d ihe pewee
principles, he was. neverthee ss, opp eed to the principle
of any militia at all The lion. Berenet had admuted
there was oothing particular in the present situation of
affairs in Europe te jutitify ihte (leen aed or her M 'jest)'s
Government for an increase of the military force of Leis
country ei the ex' eat of 8e 000 tn-n (au expression d
disent from Sir J. Walsh) But if he were mistak; n
in what be attribeted tome Ron. Baronet, and the Hon.
Baronet realty th-tight there was something particular
in the present eituetion of efFiirs in Europe, tbe n net
(Mr. F. Peel) woul.i say, that that was not enough to
justify a measure of this kind, which estahlished a per-
manent standing force, not rene.able from year to year,
not depend lit upon annual grants of the House of
C in:mons, Out to b kept on foot nem:late-fitly, w coo-
tredicdon to the principle enuticieted in every :Mutiny
Act—that the in iintenetice of a statliest/ torte in tune
of peace, against this consent of Parliament, was ,p.
posed to the laws and the practice of tee CODS( ittltikii,
He trivet admitted the ty of taking measure, ter
completing the deft-no: It of the country, and his objec-
tions lay to the particular plan proe wend by the G,)-
vernm,,nt. which he tnought would *stablish a lave
costly and xp-naive labeler- ad proportion to the quality
of the services io be oh allied true it.—(li-ar, near )
He agreed with the Gallant General who had spoken
at an early fielded of the deb ate tnat 400,000/ would not
be the limit to the expense ; but after all, tne most im-
portant part of the question was the manner in which
the force was to Dc reis-d. The Government had led
the House and the own ry to supp ise that it could be
raised by voluntary enli.tmeres, and that persona would
be found in suffieient numbers ready to volunteer their
services, and to enter without cempaleion into the ranks
of thausilitia. tie (Mr. Peel) nelieved that the antici-
pations formed on the system of voluntary enlistment
would not be realised, anti that the project would, in
fact, be nugatory and yield no fruits. Let
them take the country at large, and obtain their men
from those portions where the materials were
most abundant and plentiful ; Ist them take the
ranks of the , militia a receptacle into which
they would sweep the lowest and most degraded of
the population ; let them make the new force a re-
ceptacle of all the able•bortied adult male paupers in
the country—even then he did not think they w .uld ob-
tain the force they required, because he observed by a
return lately published that the whole numner of adult
pauper males—persona who did not subsist by their
own industry, but required to be supported by their
neighbours—did not exceed 35 000. and that of this num-
ber more than one-half were chargeable in c easequence
of accident, sickness, or some other infirmity. He did
rot say there were not 80,600 persons in the country
who might not be wiling to enter the ranks of the
militia. That there wait that number Of persons who
would prefer the idleness of a life of this kind to the
even tenor. of a life of industry and labour be did not
doubt; and, as the Hun. Gentleman had already ob-
served, these would be the parties who would
most likely be engaged as substitutes for the persotis
who were so untortunate as to be drawn by
ballot. During the war, when the bonus for a sub-
stitute in the militia was 61., it was a common thing
for people to pay as much as 30/. and 401; and so, he
believed, it would be again under the present Bile
He was of opinion, therefore, that they would be
compelled to have recourse to cempulaory conscription;
and to do that atter voluntary enlisment had proved a
failure would create an opp isition to, and a discontent
with, the measure which would render it inuperative,end
neutralise whatever advantage mien have been wales.
pated trom its adop nee l'o have recourse to the ballot
in a time of 13,,itik!w is to eee.bsish a principle of un-
justifiable in- quality. awl to req tire the same personal
services from tne rich as well As the pour men. Both
were told that they had lib -sty to fled substitu,es if bhey
couH; but whilst the Tic' min would easily obtain
substitute, it mist t be aitege. her out of the power of ,he
poor man to do so. Thus would he experienced at once
all the inequiiity and all the injustice of w poll—ax.
['he measure would also operate as a new law of settle-
msnt, binding the labouring classes to the soil, and pre-
venting Oen] from etij .)ing treedotu of locomoti-n, and
tree and untettort,d permission to cho noe their do
in whatever part of the country tie-, pleased.
over, he thought that, drill and exercise this
milida as they might, it, won d n .ver tom a
really aficient and serviceable part of the det....hoPs the
country. One alteruttive sassy must accept. &her tne
militia-men would be a, g aid as the trained an I disci
pltned soldiers, et- they would not. If they would not,
then his idea ,of the tither-Tot-able Ch ,ratter of the force
would be cenfirtned; but it they would then the House
was bound to attend to the const&ratiori to wt,ich the
Hon. Member fir Manchester dr•vv at'ention on a

ironer evening., e hen he aod th it we should every
five years t e :peurieg Into th, 10 VOM. classes of the
people 80,000 mt-it, who - h d b-eti weaned from `.he
calm pursuits of peace tout iedusirv, become halm:timed
to military habits and tastes, sad been trained to the
use of arms. He thought he had sh.iwn that this mi-
litia fowls would be buodeusome to the coutitry on the
score of taxation, and oppressive to individu,l, ; and
they ought not to consent to exact, any pert al ser-
vice from individuals, or impose any burden upon the
country, except fur an object which would prodive
some palpaele advantage. Now, what were the objects
for which the Government asked this fore- ? They
had heard much about the constitutional charact-r of
the f .roe. Lie did not bdieve there was any trace of a
constitutional ehsracter to be found in the lineaments of
the measure. The Crown no doubt at one time had the
power of issuing a Commission of array, and of making
use of the milioa for the purpose of quelling riots or sup-
pressing an insurrection. But this was the first time in
the history of the militia that they were depriving the
Crown of the power of making use of the militia force
for those purpos-s, and they said that the force should
only be emb 'died in cases of ac cal invasion, or when
there was imminent danger of invasion. A measure of
that kind, then, in time of peace, was an uncalled-tor in-
terference with the indiverial economy of the country.
In time of peace they ought to carry out the principle of
the diviaioa of labour in 'twir defence of the country, so
that the persons (•inployed as soldiers should d vote their
whole time and life to it, and have thus the opportunity
of becoming masters of their profession; whilst those
who followed their ordinasy avocations should be al-
lowed to attend to them without being called on to learn
the rudiments of military kuowiedge. No position was
more disrastrful to a man than that of half-citiz m, half-
s,ddier. He thought that the remarks of L trd Chancellor
fisrdtvicke, in a spe,ch which he made against, a 1%11441
1301 which was brought forward at the end of the reige
of George 11., Was is vety wise one. He said, •• F,,r my
own part, 1 was never more convinced of any propoition
in my life than of this, that a nation of merchants, 1 ma-
nutectu.ers, artisttns, and huseaedtnee, deoe,d, (I oy,su
a-my, i• vastly pref.-ruble to ana 'on of soldi,tre." That
was the ptineple upon which he (Mr. F Peel) would be
inclined to:pr• teed---o en trust the d •tetic -of Ins coun:::
o the army and naval force, With respeet to' the:ou.,'
f tree, if proo,rly disp is d along. the coast. it._
time
affml an off.. 'rust secufity tioin-t surprise 1a,,,,
...„.,n
of peace. tie fmlteved that before wo7in,r
ti_ll9"''of
enemy could as emhle in suffi -ier,t force, or "
ra to at •
rransport be ob .iced to eorivey then in
tack our shores. we c mid assemble such
laores.t in a slat
~f force as
would etrec.ually pla.es our wrote line,
of
in-ufficient,
~f defence; and it our military
gore, arrangement might lie mile *thereby ght b, called him',
a Pam in of
for‘e
the army serving in tnt' col ,hieso
org4n.
_.. ,
,s a tome for
and rho coloni-s be csllett upon eohmoiea we •.e not there
themselves; fir the troop., to the
for the purposes
but f r those of
guard seeinst the inroads of
84.
of rx+-rtill defence,
ioto•rnal p ►siice, or to I was not only usdess,
vags. Li ttratt of war ..hehi' "14
• t.tit lead trim into a
Aso sense of se..uritys
out even datigerou
If there ever should arise a
4.....f,r it m ,
.
r, th, y c u'd not h •00 to
langer of invasion eor w' 480 000, or even 120,1100
re'ist it with a rnik is force F
r withFranca th•y had a Unlitia.
oteue,n
then.
theylhi rdiildl g tn,
nite ire;y - coon chat -.theyf had at least'
4 0,000 volunteers in the Miff pings I I the c untr);
-n(1.
wi ti.,m-oande, ,nd there was even a erovi•lon tor
armingr the pea-) 'wry. As it was then, eo he, believed
told he now.
rt w Every house, , very field would be
,
„0,,,,,,,ed, and they should contest inch by inch, and fitl,l
by hell against the enemy, and upin th it force ha sh iu'd
ha disposed to rely rather than upon the militia force.
Uuder th.ise eircamsfeneea-theraimai not wait for the
vrmtssion of the Crown or the summons of the lord-
lieutenant; thsy sheuld rise as onts arm in &fence of
their altars and habitations,
Holding, then, those opi • if they were menaced.
opinions, and considering the
militia injurious to the country
- in of
is a time of peace, and
believing It to be unserviceablefor defence n timewar, he could have no hesitation as to the vote he
should give that night. He would cordially support
the amendment of the Hon, and Gallant Member for
Wes tminster.—(Oheora,)
Mr. NEWDEGATE said he could no
upon which aide of the douse the Hon. longer doubtor
Llotninste (Hr. F. Pee he could
that wheu he neard the Hon. Member's speech. Peel Sat; but still he weollacuhe;:lmobberserve
speaking-R against
scarcely believe that he, who was
a militia altogether, was
Colonies of the late Government, h
the liondlewrswSeccrseetanraymfeor t`vash the
recorded as voting for the militia measure which that
Government introduced—(
Mr. F. PEEL said h believed•El
the authority of an Hon.
Friend behind .him,
ear
he had nit voted.
Mr. NE woocrArs
bail d
consulted the division list,
tor saying that
!wow!) who
h
t.t•r. hat list stood the name of the
Flan. Member for
Yet, on the present oc-
Le-emons
P I's) speech wts not against a
casion, his (IV. F. -ee • • t militia force altoge-
ther.agains the . .
particular measure. bar
ssssuei there was a
At the c,-)cumanccuicat of t,O
necessity for the
embolimen.
-n t of the militia, because
had been a change in the tor, of government in
h
t,hreer7,oe h
, which had created a sense of inseouriry throulh-
,ut Europe; he was n it aware that the f arm of govern-
meat in France had altered since that time. Moreover,
ho begged to remind the House that the country had
neon warned by the highest military authority in the
world of its insse.urity —that the Duke of Wellington
had preootinced it indefensible from foreign invadon. He
(Ur. Newdegate) only trusted that his (the Duke of
Virelling'lte-) w iris woalil not becatne too memorable
by their fuliinefit. But it was up in his—the greatest
general In Vie ag.—aa h Kity that he ( Ar. Igewdegste)
oased his vote. fil.ictvurth, from the introduction of a
&Leg.% con.* tte tuagezez of.:tam:oPd LI 34400

~'~.