The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-18 00:00:00

THE SUN,

•
Itb , 'here was the power existing to raise the militia in i vornment, therefore, could very well afford to make
at country. With regard to the billotted men the , some recognition of the rights of conscience. He trusted
ease stood thus: they were liable by the existing militia i the House woold listen to the dictates; of justice, and
'SW to serve in Iteland, if wanted; whereas the volun- I not can upon that individual to do the daty of a soldier
leers were not so liable, but came only under the raw 1 to whore it refused the rights of a citizen.—(deer.)
system, The Hon. Gentleman would then sic that it air. WALPOLE said the Hon. Gentleman had ad-
was necessary to make the volunteers liable to the same vocated his proviso on two grounds; the first, that
servien as the ballotted men, evert body compelled to nerve in the militia should have
Mr. BRIGHT said he would not give the Committee the rigaos of citiz mship extended to him, and the se-
the trouble of dividing, coed that there weregccrtain persons who objected to
Mr. M. GIBSON asked if he could have an estimate military service altogether, and who would, therefore, be
of the expense that would be thrown upon the parish and injured by the operation of this Bill. With regard to
esunty rates by the proceedings under the Bill? The the first, whether the rights of citizenship should be
burdens that would be thus thrown upon real property conferred on thee° who were required to verve in the
would be something extensive. militia, that was too large a question to be discussed on
Mr. WALPOLE was not able to oive the estimate. that Bill. It could only be discus:led as part of a large
The clause was then agreed to b measure which embraced all points connected with the
On clause 16, which provides that' where men cannot circumstances under which persons Should serve—what
be_ raised by voluntary enlistment her Majesty in Couu- regulations they should be under—what their occupa-
ell may order the ballot,
Mr. CHARTERIS Lions, and whether having so served they should be en-
opposed the clause. Ho con- titled to have a vote for the county. But the way in
tended that the ballot ought not to bo had recourse to which the Hon. Gentleman had worded his proviso put
n except where there was an extreme necessity for it—a it quite out of the power of the Committee to admit it,
leee.ssity which in the present case did not exist. Bo• as if admitted it could only be as part of a more ex-
I eying that the popularity of the measure would be in- tended measure. The effect of such a clause Would be
creased by the omission of the principle, he moved that to narrow the basis of the militia very materially, and
the words "to be raised by ballot" should be omitted, to throw the pressure on particular classes. This was '
Mr. WALPOLE said the reasons of his Hon. Friend so serious a matter that it could not bo entertained for
!gore very strong for retaining the clause as it stood. a moment. Then, as to the Honourable Gentleman's
Thet first object of the Bill was to have a certain number second objection—that persons who conscientiously
of men; the second to raise them with as little disturb- ottjected to serve would decline to serve, and would
once of the relations of life as possible. If they could thereby lose their rights of citizenship. But he appre-
be obtained by the voluntary enlistment means proposed, hended there was a much graver question mooted in the
so much the better; but, as it was primarily necessary to last matter. For if it was to be considered a good °b-
raise these 80,000 men, the power of the ballot could not jection that persons were to be excused who had a re-
he omitted, us a last alternative. The Bill held out in- ligious objection to military service—then they ought
d_ ments to volunteer for the bounty, and, in the failure to be disposed to extend the principle, and say, We will
of that motive, to volunteer, lest the operation should not contribute our services personally,
and w
compel those who might not otherwise serve. Under to pay towards getting others to do that which
will refuse
rebefeubse_
the se circumstances, he could not consent to omit the scientious grounds we decline to
would be equally
do." If conscientious
compulsory clauses, scruples were to be admitted, they
Mr. PE fO thought the Government would do all that urged with equal force, whether as respected person or
was necessary if they tried the volunteer system until purse. The question was so much larger than was in-
next session. If it did not succeed by that time, he was tended by the proviso, and as the effect of it would be
of opinion that it would be better to increase the standing to narrow the basis of the militia to the great inj,iry of
army. Ho bore testimony to the loyalty of the working the country, he felt convinced the House would re.use to
classes, and stated that on the 10th April, 1848, he had adopt it.
tendered the adhesion of 7,000 men in his own employ- Mr. MOWATT was not surprised at the anxiety felt
meat to the Government in the interest of -internal order by the Government to sheltie by any moons through the
iu the kingdom. Bill.—(Hear, hear, and Ohl) He acquitted the Hon.
hMa Ew ART said it would be bettor to make an ad- Gentleman opposite of having originated such a mass of
dition to the regular army than to demoralise the contradictions and absurdities as were contained within
People. He thought the wisest thing would be to in- the four corners of the Act. He should like Govern-
crease the artillery, if an addition to the military force meat to explain why Irelaud was excluded from the Bill.
of the country was deemed necessary. If the Govern- He could not fancy the reason why the Government had
meat limited the Bill to voluntary enlistment, it would not thought right to trust the people of Ireland with
not be so unpopular as it was certain to become with the arms in time of peace; but why Scotland, also, had been
Compulsory clauses, excluded, ho could not understand. For such a trum-
Mr. FOX said, in yielding the compulsory clauses the pery measure of defence as the present, it was not worth
Government would give up no real power, as they had while to incite the popular hatred against the very name
substantially agreed to confine themselves to the volun- of a militia. The only persons who would enrol them-
teer system until the next year. By insisting on the re- selves in the proposed militia would belong to the dan-
tention of those clauses, moreover, they would most ma- gerous classes, and they would be found good for little
terially damage the volunteer system, while they would or nothing. The Bill was disgraceful not only to the
cast apprehension among the working classes in this Government but to the House; and he thought the Right
country. Hon. Secretary for the Homo Department ought to re-
Mr. HUDSON had supported the Bill to the present consider the proposed proviso, if he was sincere in saying
time,
but feeling satisfied that the force necessary would that he wished to obtain a class of men on whom do-
se raised by volunteering, he did not think it necessary pendence could be placed.
to arm tho Government with the ballot. Hill consti- The O'GORMAN MAHON said he only rose to pro-
tuents were all against the ballot. Ho did not see the test against the remark of the Hon. Member with re-
necessity for the Bill at all; but though he should not ferenee to Ireland. The Hon. Member had only re-
oppose his own views to the knowledge possessed by the peated the unfair and illiberal assertion, which had from
lapte and the present Governments, he could not support time to time found its way into some of the newspapers
" compulsory clauses. He hoped, therefore, that the of too country. He could not understand upon what
Government would not press the ballot. grounds a proposition which had been originated by the
had The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the Committee last Government, and supported by the present, could be
agreed that 80000 men should be raised, and it was designated as odious and disgraceful. When the Hon.
expected that they would be raised by voluntary enlist- Member insinuated that Ireland had been omitted from
meat; but he asked the Committee, would the means to the measure because her Majesty could not trust the
raise the force in question be complete if the Govern- Irish people with arms, ho could only say that if her
meat, had not the power to enforce the vote of the Corn- Majesty was under that apprehension it must have arisen
iri_ 'wee by the ballot? Hon. Members said over and from some misinformation from persons having the same
over again that there was nothing so detestable to the ' opinions as the Hon. Member. The English nation
entrY as the ballot; but if voluntary enlistment failed would do injustice to Ireland if they believed that every
e ballot would be the only alternative. When, there- man in Ireland would not rise in arms if the country was
fore,lp the power to raise these 8000 men was conceded invaded.—(Hear, hear.) He thought they ought all to
e"_° measure would bo incomplete if a contingency were endeavour to make a measure which had been declared.
-"_°.t Provided for—namely, that the men could not be necessary for the common weal as perfect as possible.
raised by voluntary enlistment. Mr. MOWATT said the Hon. Member was mistaken
n air. CARDWELL said the argument of the Attorney- in suppt sng that he had spoken of her Majetty.
weeeral was, that he would have to put the ballot to a The O'GORMAN MAHON—Her Majesty's Govern-
new Pula • in its
„it , Parliament
eac,ed from the Bill. The speech of the Honourable Mr. MOWATT said that the Hon. Member ought to
should the
therefore raised the practical question— have addressed his complaint to the Government, for all
natlt" the Queen's subjects, in a time of profound that be (Mr. Mowtstt) had stated was a wish that the
iii-ale, be submitted to compulsory conscription? For Government should state why they had thought the
e last twenty years the militia law had existed in a people of Ireland could not be trusted with arms.
state of suspension, the Queen having a power of ap- The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the Hon.
Plying the ballot in case of necessity. If the clause Member who had just sat down had stated that the Go-
Itth"
the ballot
the principle would be established that vernment were anxious to shuttle through this Bill. If
, subsidiary
was necessary in a time of profound peace as that were an there Was no one so determined to disap-
it"uouaidiary to voluntary:enlistment. The Government, point them as the Hon. Member, for he had done all
the mere agency of the ballot, were going to compel he could to prevent the clause being carried. The Hon.
the professional man and others to pay a tax of 30?, in Member had also stated that be was ashamed to be found
%time of profound peace to provide a substitute. The night after night taking part in the discussion. The
Proposition for rejecting the clause was, therefore, not remedy for that was so obvious that he was surprised
honvecessary. The votes of the Committee enabled' the that the Hon. Member had not shown his sense of
but
aesrnbriseent to raise the militia by voluntary means; shame by adopting it.—(A laugh.) With respect to the
exigency hal been proved, he could not con- proviso, he objected to it on the ground that it made a
Bent to give them the compulsory clauses demanded. most invidious distinction between different classes of
Ali% NEWDEGATE said it was impossible the Go- her Majesty's subjects. Every subject was interested
vernment
could have a militia without the compulsory in the defence of the nation, and yet the
clauses, proviso almost raised the inference that only
Sir F. BARING did not believe the omission of the those parsons entitled to vote for Members of
clauses would deprive the Government of a single man, Parliament were interested in that defence. That
especially as the operation of the ballot would be Post- portion of the community entitled to the right of voting
lira
until January 1, 1853. Under the present mi- was surely not the least respectable part. According to
law, in case of danger, 150,000 men could be raised the Hon. Member for Falmouth, none but the lowest
by the ballot, at present suspended. He would not vote vagabonds would enter the militia, and yet the proposal
for the amendment to get rid of the ballot, but if the of the Hon. Member for Oldham would compel many of
ballot.. was postponed time would be given to consolidate the respectable classes of the community to associate
the militia law. Another point gained would be an im- themselves and serve with those vagabonds. Ile objected,
Portant one—namely, that the present expensive mode therefore, to the proposal on these sufficient grounds.
of raising the militia might be altered. The late Gc- But he had another objection to it. A misapprehension
'eminent thought the charges should not fall upon the existed with regard to the rights of the subjects of this
country rates, but upon the general taxation of the country. There was a distinction between political and
country. This Bill, however, charged an indefinite sum civil rights. With a view to good government, certain
On the county rates. classes were entrusted with political rights, not granted
The
CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said to others. All classes, however, were entitled to the
the omission of the compulsory clauses would seriously same civil rights; therefore all were equally interested in '
affecth the chances of obtaining a force by voluntary en- the defence of those rights. The objection of his Right
listenent. Men would enlist voluntarily when they Hon. Friend the Secretary of State that the proviso
saw the eventuality of the ballot in the distance ; wou'diiarrow the basis upon which the defence of the
otherwise they would not. The effect of the ballot on country ought to rest, and that it would limit the number
:those districts whore volunteers were likely to be ob- of citizens who might be compelled to serve, was con-
tamed was a strong consideration, and ho could assure clusive.—(Hear.) Ho could scarcely understand the
the Committee that the chances of voluntary enlistment reason put for ward by the Hon. Member for Oldham in
would be seriously affected if the compulsory clauses favour of his proviso on the ground of conscientious
Were omitted. scruples. He was the last person to object to well-
Mr. PRICE said that a man who would expect to founded scruples, but he did not see how the proviso
get 301. or 401. as a substitute, would not enlist volunta- would protect persons who had such scruples from being
tilt'. The retention of the compulsory clauses would, called on to serve or find a substitute.
therefore, prevent voluntary enlistment. Mr. FOX explained, with reference to those persons
_ Mr. WAKLEY said there was no force in the state- Who conscientiously objected to the use of arms, that
meat of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, because the his motion would so far protect them, for being on the
watt" was foregone for this year. The feeling of young electoral list they might withdraw their name, and thus
Teta out of doors was that if they were drawn by the avoid being called on to serve.
ballot they would go to gaol rather than serve. He The ATTORNEY. GENERAL did not think it
hoped, therefore, the amendment would be adopted. would be desirable or reasonable to allow persons to Ca-
IIaLEACH represented a constituency which the cape from serving their country in that or any other
kallot. would peculiarly affect, and he was also the em- way. There were many who had conscientious objec-
PdoYer of thousands of workmen. He could therefore tions to paying taxes, and thousands of objections might
speak absolutely of their repugnance to it; and he be taken to the performance of duties which all classes
trusted therefore that the clause would not bo perse- were bound to fulfil. But, if these objections were to be
vered in. He believed there was a strong feeling in the taken into account, every obligation might be frittered
Country against the Militia Bill, and he believed, if more
defen away; and on these grounds ho hoped the Committee
co was really necessary, that the people would wound not entertain the proviso.
rather have an addition to the standing army. He hoped Mr. HUME thought the proviso open to objection,
Government would therefore consent to abandon the and suggested to his lion. Friend to alter it al as to pro-
clause. vide that every person who should be drawn by ballot
Mr. S. HERBERT explained, There were man
reasons why, many and should servo in the militia should be entitled to
in his judgment, the possible volunteer have his name entered on the list of Parliamentary elec-
would not have such a rooted horror of the ballot as tors in the borough or county in which he resides.
asserted. lie feared that the tone of argument used by The O'GORMAN MAHON explained.
some lion. Gentlemen would have the effect of making
a Mr. PACKE objected to tho proviso of the Honour-
the people believe that Government had not the power able Member for Oldham. The ballot would necessarily
to induce citizens to come forward in defence of the be harsh under any circumstances, but that proviso
country in case of need.
Mr. 11. BERKELEY said in the city represented would increase its harshness tenfold.
there was a petition getting up Mr. FOX said he could not accede to the suggestion
was satisfied the people were strongly opposed to trine of his Hon. Friend the Msmber for Montrose, because
ballot. - ° he did not think that the fact of a person having been
The Committee divided, when there appeared— Engaged in the military service offered the best ground
For the amendment ••• ..• Ito for an extension of the franchise. He should not press
Against it ... ... •„ ... 127 to a division the proviso he had moved after the opi-
Majority for the ballot ...-17 nious which had been expressed on the suaject by those
On our re-admission we found Hon. Members to whom he had looked for support.
Mr. MITCHELL stating he wished that ever Mr. M. GIBBON said he wished to ask the Right
y gen-
tleman who supported this Bill could be called upon to Hon. Gentlenian the Secretary of State for the Homo
serve in per: on. Department whether he meant to give the Committee
Mr. W. FOX moved a proviso to the effect that no an opportunity of considering his proposed list of ex-
person shall be liable to compulsory military service emotions by bringing that list under their consideration.
the 42d of George
whose name is not on the registration list as an elector He (Mr- Gibson) believed that the exemptions contained
be found suitable at the present day.
for some borough, city, or county. Ho thought there id"' 111., would not in many instances
were many circumstances besides population to be con-
sidered in such a measure as that now before the House. Mr. WALPOLE said that ho would read the list of
He considered that property ought to be taken into con- exemptions. That list comprised Peers who were die-
sideration quite as much as population. - lie also con- charging public duties in the other House of Parliament;
serytdirf,P, half-pay; commissioned officers' serving or having
sidered that the habits and occupations of the people pneursoun.st.serving in the other forces of the Crown; officers
earls in the militia; resident members of the
ought to be taken into account. He claimed for those
who had no representation, no rights of citizenship, hx-
_ universitinersy•
eraption from the duties which this Bill proposed to mt. , ors
ergymen,
rennees; seamen and seater'
persons licensed to preach;
ed in the dockyards and gunward ofthe Ordnance;
rose open them, That large class, as was said in constables and peace officers; articled clerks and ap-
another l
ob,yP ace, had nothing to do with the laws but to P
oynieonfg child ms e
bornn ;persona
Waterman,i n and
wedlock. eanl '
' then', and • t those persons composing parsons free of the Comp
had merits and virtues}e quite equal to other classes in P
that class PloY
more favoureddunfieositions in our social scheme. Tle poor man who had more thaann
wall as any
should certainly
workingawe, M. GIBSON said he could
once of the day tporepeneenvtit classes, who had the exist- not understand why a
were outlawed, as it ware, frofmerwho Peer should not purchase a substitute
thheyei civil
rdlsaeheoivarl .
of the wealther classes rights other member of the community, and get° as
Bill. He warned the classes,
ought not to be touched by this take the sense of tlae Comm Committee against that exemption,
government to be ided hy what It was also proposed that every poor man who
had taken place in Ireland one child should lea exempted. But had
whenthe militia he (Mr.
• rolled. On two occasions was en- more,
lowed close upon th© heel, outrages and outbreaks fol- G,b,,ont)lanwished to know who was to be considered a
of the efxpiration of those poor. man?
enrolments. Ho did not menu •
assert shpt there was any indisposition
ramom moment
GIBBON
en the pa-t of MM. continued—lt appeared that water-
the
unrepresented classes, in case of threatened to Sir C. BURRELL—A day labourer.
also to be exempted. But watermen had been
to come forward and lend their aid to defend their invasion'
Inca
were
a the engineers and other persons employed
Such a feeling, h© was satisfied, did not - shores. superseded by
and
it
3 to that latter class rather than
exist, for very in steamers;
recently when danger was surmised the labouring such favour ought to be granted.
any
were the first to come forward in defence of
fpeohple to watermen that
further exemption on btehalf of
country. If real danger occurred the ballot would neciirt There was to b
eof athe universities. But he could not
be needed; the peopl, as one man, would rise resident members
ns who resided in the universities
to hurl
back any, insult end aggression which might be contem- understandf why persons
as sometimes happened, should
plated. The people would, however, naturally feel, if net
their own amusement,
tubstitutts. lie should also
the Legislature called upon them to serve, that the Le- eblt be obliged to purchase t
h that exemption should
gisleture ought first to recognise their just claims, He
ho Ctrn-vifi,
cuthdet he could not see wlvers,es
~ of Oxford and
would only allude to ono circumstance more; that in Cambride to members of the n!t to
to the Raght Hon.
this country there was a large and a growing body Cambridge. He would suggest
Gentleman the Secre -of State for the Home Depert-
tary ,
which was conscientiously opposed to military service mint the propriety the whole of that
altogether. Christianity and history from their earliest subject,
embodyingand
c of reconsidering
respect to it in a
;ges presented traces of inclividuala who had a rooted separate clause. his
views with
objection on principle to war, and everything that had Mr. WALPOLE said n . Member who
plroposal of the Govermn
reference to war. Those parties ought not to have might object to the that any Ho
n•
on the
their wishes and principles entirely disregarded, nor be eubject of etwmptiol
punished, as they would be, account of their con- -bringing forward
on would have ample opportunity
of
any amendment ho might think
scientious scruples. There would always be persons !, proper.
who upheld what were called peace doctrines; those 1 , Mr. BRIGHT said, he did
persons formed at present not a very large eIaSS GO-, should not be exempted, •not see why medical men
as he believed there WttS no

class better entitled to the indulgent consideration of the I
Legislature.
Mr. WALPOLE said, that the Government would
not be unailling to give their best consideration to the
a ehject of those exemptions. But ho repeated, that any
Hon. Member might bring forward a proposal embody-
ine his views on the question.
ins
THOMPSON sail, he thought there were
reasons why the Government ought to grant an exemp-
tion to the members of the Society of Friends.
The proviso moved by Mr. FOX was then nettatived
without a division.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved a proviso to the effect
that no married man should be drawn by ballot, and no
unmarried man, except he was between the ages of 20
and 25. There were in England Wales, according to
the lest census, 8,753,000 miles, of whom 800,030 were
between the egos of 20 and 25; and of these npwards of
600,000 were unmarried. Now, he believed that that
latter close was a sufficiently large one for the purposes
of that Act, and that they were the fittest persons
to be brought within its operation. Supposing
a married man was drawn by ballot, who was to
defray the cost of maintaining his wife and family? He
hoped the proviso would receive the consideration of the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Home
Department.
Mr. HENLEY thought his Hon. Friend should have
come prepared with some statement to aid them in as-
certaining the number of unmarried males between the
ages of 20 and 25 years. Some data of that kind should
be supplied; otherwise the adoption of the proviso might
narrow their mergia very inconveniently. The reason
why they exempted married men having more than one
child was, that in the event of a man with a large family
being drawn the burden would fall heavily on the parish.
Mr. WAKLEY was opposed to all exemptions, as
well in the case of a peer as of the poor man. If they
were to have a ballot at all, let it fall equally. Why
should unmarried men be visited by a penalty because
they were unmarried? Many of them did not marry
from provident motives, and if these exemptions were
allowed, they were certain to be followed by a vast
number of improvident' marriages.—(Laughter.) In-
deed, if there was an exemption at all, he would put in a
claim for the medical practitioners.—(Hear,and a laugh.)
Sir G. STRICKL AND was in favour of exempting
married persons; &though he should say, strictly speak-
ing, the peer as well as the peasant should be liable. If
persons of the present day had seen the heartrending
scenes that he witnessed, arising out of the ballot con-
scriptions, the alarm would be far greater than at
present.
Mr. PETO said that, if necessary, he would prefer an
augmentation of the standing army to the ballot con-
seripqon. The industrial classes would raiso an outcry
little expected when the Bill should become law.
Mr. SANDARS supported the proviso.
Mr. MO WATT thought that as only 50,000 men
would be required in the next year, there would be no
necessity to have recourse to the ballot.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he found that, of the
8,750,000 of males, there would be about 1,600,000
found between the ages of 20 and 25 years who were
not married; and that would leave a sufficiently amp'e
margin without calling on the married men.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begged
to recal the consideration:of the House tolthe point betore
it. He thought, with great respect, that the principle
which had been laid down by his Hon. Friend (Sir H.
Willoughby) was one of a very vicious character. In
our system of taxation nothing had been more produc-
tive of annoyance and trouble than these exemptions,
and therefore it would be wish
and judicious ,not to ex-
tend their operation.—(Hear, hear.) If the exemptions
which at present existed by law were not adapted to
the times in which they lived, he was sure that the
Committee would be able to deal with them. In the first
instance, they ought to consider that, by thus adding to
the list of exemptions, they much diminished the area
of service. They were acting, in his opinion, most un-
justly in pressing these exemptions. Upon these grounds,
but principally and-chiefly because he was entirely op-
posed to the principle of exemption, he felt it his duty
to oppose the amendment.
Mr. T. small was glad to hear the Right Hon.
Gentleman say he was opposed to these exemptions.
The exemption of married men, he thought, was the
worst that could be devised. The Hon. Member for
FtveAere, by his amendment, would induce unmarried
men to make improvident marriages. The limitation of
the Act to the ago of 35 years would of itself exempt
a great number of married men.
Mr. MO WATT thought that the exemption proposed
was one that would afford real practical relief to society
ventrally.
mmittee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment ...
53
Against it ... _159

Mejority against the amendment —lO6
Mr. M. GIi3SON then proposed to add a proviso to
.he clause, exempting all schoolmasters from being liable
to serve in the militia,
The CHAIRMAN put the question.
Mr. WALPOLE said that such a proviso would be
better moved at the end of the 18th clause than in the
present one. If the Right Hon. Gentleman postponed
his proposition until then he would be prepared to state
his opinions upon the proposition.
Mr. M. GIBSON said, if the Right Hon. Gentleman
would agree to submit the list of exemptions he pro-
posed, so that they could have an opportunity of giving
their opinion upon them, and consider whether additions
might not be made to them, he would agree to his sug-
gestion. But otherwise he was disposed to think this
the fitting time for bringing forward his proposition.
Lord SEYMOUR said that every exemption was a
compromise; and, as they had heard much lately from
the head of the Government on the subject of compro-
miles, he wished to ask whether the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had a distinct clause of exemptions to propose?
Mr. WALPOLE said that all these exemptions were
contained in the Act of the 42d Geo. 111., and were in-
corporated in the present Bill.
Lord SEYMOUR asked whether they were to have
any compromise here?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
they proposed exactly the same exemptions as were con •
tained in the Act of Geo. 111. To increasing these ex-
emptions he was certainly opposed. When, however, a
fair opportunity arose, for discussing those points, the
Government wore not indisposed to consider these ex-
emptions of the Act which were revived in the present
Bill. He fully agreed in the .principle of compromises,
for, without them, ho believed that nothing could be
carried in that House.
After a few.words from Mr. BRIGHT,
The Cumusittee again divided, when there appeared—
For the proviso ••• 86
Against it .. "• ... 164
Mejority against it ... —7B
On our return to the gallery we found
Mr. GIBSON moving, as a proviso to the clause,
" That no peer of this realm shall to exempt from serv-
ing its the militia raised under this Act, anything in
not-
the
first-recited Act, or any other Act to the contrary
withstanding."—(Loud cheers from the Opposition.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
all the exemptions had been adopted atter much consi-
deration. Ile could not adopt provisos brought forward
in this crude manner, and should therefore oppose the
motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. BRIGHT supported the proviso, and insisted
that if the Members of the House of Commons ere
obliged to servo, there was no reason why peers should
not be compelled to serve also.—(Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected
to the question being brought forward without fair
notice. The privilege of exemption from serving in the
militia was incidental to the peerage in other circum-
stances than those which were connected with Parlia-
ment. Take, for instance, the exemption of a peer from
serving on juries, though Members of the House of
Commons wcro not exempt—(Yes, and No)—at all
events when Parliament was not sitting. He contended
that this was a question upon which the Right Hon.
Gentleman ought to have given fair notice. But instead
of that he had given no notice at all. He and his fiends
hod loaded the paper with amendments upon the various
elauiee of the Bill; but not one was there upon this
subject, which had nothing whatever to do with the
clause at present before the Committee.
Mr. GIBSON would be sorry to take any one by sur-
prise, bat he had made several appeals to the Home Se-
cretary to submit to the House the list of exemptions he
had to propose—(Hear, hear) —in order that the sense
of the House might be taken upon each separate exemp-
tion. The Right Hon. Gentleman told him, however,
that ho would not do so, and that it was for him (Mr.
Gibson) to move provisos of exemption. In taking this
coarse, therefore, he was only acting upon the suggestion
of the Right lion. Gentleman.
Lord PALMERSTON said, the only way in which
this exemption formed part of the Bill was by reference
to the Act 421 Geo. 111. Now the ballot would not
take place, at the earliest, until the beginning of next
year, and they had been told that in the next session of
Parliament a Consolidation Bill was to be introduced.
He thought, therefore, it would be better to reserve the
consideration of these exemptions until then.
Mr. V. S the objection of. the Government
to this proviso rested simply on the ground that notice
hed not boon given, and they wished to take time for
its consideration, then he would advise his Right
Honourable Friend not to 'press his motion further
at that moment.
Mr. EWART urged that that was the right time
to press the amendment, unless the Government gave
an assurance that there was a chance of their altering
the 42d of George 111., which contained the list of ex-
emptions.
Mr. WAKLEY, understanding from the expression
which had fallen from the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, that the exemptions should be considered on a
tutura oceesion—(Cries of "No, no," and loud laughter)
—urged his Right Hon. Friend to postpone his proviso.
Colonel SIB rnoßp hoped the Chancellor of the
mExchequerpower,
andow honulrl des
aindlolet.ucr:onsf
We
mbwith t
btthoo ewg,siuveegxgweelasat)ii,
ot io
Roe. and Gallant Member, the high—the upper hand
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For Mr. Gibson 13 proviso 96
Age:iMajority against the e proviso --66
Mr. WliLstEiYt .
moved a proviso, to the effect that
medical men should be exempted from the operation of
the Bill.
Mr. 7ALPOLE said that tho Government were
exemptions
b
containedinlethu
former Act; and he did not think it desirable t
they
wrely proposing the
and
i:en were
e could see no
should
Mr. trrenbdbv,tehrovseedetxbjeuamrt
.nipetseiod
in m
exempted
dliefraodmy
exempted from serving on i
reason why they should not be equally
serving in the militia.
Colonel SIBTHORP thought that medical rum should
not be treated as a body distinct from the rest of the
community.
me. WYLD said he thought that medical mon had
tho strongest ehtires to exemption iu that matter.