The Sun.
London, England, 1864-07-26 00:00:00

NEW ZEALAND LOAN BILL.

Earl GRANVILLE moved the second reading of the
New Zealand Guarantee of Loan Bill, which had come up
With the sanction of the Commons.
The Earl of MALME SBURY condemned the measure
as one of questionable policy, and said that if the colonies
had
d very little todepenalipon their own unaided efforts we should
hear more. of colonial wars. Should additional
troops be required in New Zealand a portion of our Indian
forces ought to be employed,
Lord LYVEDEN also doubted the policy of the mea-
sure, but contented himself with protesting against it.
The Duke of CAMBRIDGE stated that the British
troops felt no disinclination whatever to the service in case
they were called on to perform it.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH feared that the colony
would not be able to fulfil its obligations,
The Earl of DONOTJGHMORE also protested against
the policy of guaranteeing the loan, and thought it would
have been better had we made the colony a present of the
money.
The Earl of HARROWBY supported the bill, which
was then read a second time.

Several other bills were also advanced a stage—and
Their lordships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—Last Evening.
The SPEAIER took the chair at three o'clock.
STANDING ORDERS.

Colonel V. PATTEN drew the attention of the house
to the report of the committee appointed to revise the stand-
ing orders in reference to private bills which was presented
some time bask, and he moved that the house should agree
to that portion of the report which provides for referees in
regard to the transaction of private business.
Sir J. SHELLEY said that he did not consider the
beneficial effect,
oppose them at that
d would produce
not an
butalt e rust t ion p
the
s same r 0 p OtSi Omd e wheoul
advanced stags of the session.
Lord R. COIL differed from the hon. baronet, and
supported the report.
Mr S. FITZGERALD objected to the report, as an in-
jurious innovation, which would have the effect of depriv-
ing the house:tilts legitimate control over private business.
He trusted that the old standing orders would be reverted
to if the alteratims now proposed should not prove suc-
cessful.
(Amongst the alterations proposed by the new orders, it
was provided that the number of members should be re-
duced from five three.)
Mr 11. BAILLEE and Lord HOTHAII objected to the pro-
posal, but the noble lord said he would not object to the
number being reduced to four.
. _

Mr BOUVERIE considered that the jurisdiction in
matters of private business should be retained, but in order
to accomplish that the pressure on members should be light-
ened. He cowequently was in favour of the reduction pro-
posed.
Sir E. COLEBROKE said that in his opinion a smal
number of members would not command so much respect
and confidence as a larger one, and on that ground he op-
posed the reduction.
ROYAL COMMISSION.

The discussion was interrupted by Colonel Clifford,
Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod, summoning the members
to the Upper House, to hear the Royal assent given by
commission to several bills.
STANDING ORDERS.
On the return of the Speaker and the members by whom
he was accompanied, the discussion was resumed.
. . . .

Mr PAULL said that he could not, consistently with
what he considered was due to the interests of the public,
consent to a reduction of the existing number of the mem-
bers of committees on private bills.
Mr M. GIBSON objected to the alteration on practical
grounds, as it would give what he considered an undue
influence to the chairman. If they could secure the attend-
ance of three members, the case would be different, and he
thought the number should not be reduced below four.
After some further discussion the House divided, and
the numbers were—
For the reduction
• 67
Against it , 74
Majority ..--7
Lord IL CECIL then moved that the committee should
consist of four. _

Mr. M. GIBSON supported the amendment.
The house divided on the technical motion that the
oommitAtegeasinlasotulitd . b.e. o. os s.e.d. o.
..
........ B7
For the motion.... 55
Ma.lerftY ..............
Colonel W. PATTEN then moved that the number
should be reduced to four, upon which the house again
divided.

ne seskoser
efddat h ANDe
For the reduction to four..
Against .......... ..
After score desultory conversation, .... ....... course -s::4NBvhich
hope that the question as to
committees two votes should be
adjourned until to-morrow at the
postponed,
0 LordvTs tihnp
geoßnd.te
et
adIE
debate
ihwLa i
thentierx3mp ar
evening sitting.
ARTIFICERS IN THE DOCKYARD.
ee
ile
ask a question relative to the subject of the amcunt of re •
csthat he would, to-morrow,
muneraticn of artificers employed in the Dockyards.
hxGe I IciauTs
Mr FERRAND gatvh
whether theSMecErAetaSrljyßtoESthe Treasury
standardsofand weight measure
had been adjusted and reverified, in pursuance of an
Secretary of State for the Home
Dopartraent on the 29th
M r Dd U WEIGHTS
July, 1862, to the effect " that
measures had already been taken for the accomplishment
of that object.:" whether the standards recently taken out
of the wall of Parliament have been compared with those at
assurance given by
the Exchequer; and+ if soave
whether any and what discre-
pancy was found to exist.
GREENWICH HOSPITAL.
Mr CRAWFORD asked the Secretary to the Admiralty
whether it was the intention of the Lords Commissioners to
appropriate any portion of Greenwich Hospital for the re-
ception of worn out and disabled sea,ea
0.,
r the marehant
service ?
DEDUCTIONS BY Tilt I TREASURY.
Mr HOWES asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether
the cpinion of the law officers of the Crown had been given
on the construction of the act 19 and 20 Vic. c. 69, s. 16, re-
specting certain deductions made by the
Treasury from the
Government contribution of one-fourth part of the charge
for the pay and clothing of the police in counties and
boroughs, and whether he would state the effect of such
opinion ?
Mr PEEL said that the law advisers of the Crown were
of opinion that such deduction wa,s lawful.
FOREIGN PASSPORTS.
Mr D. GRIFFITH asked the Under Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs, whether the exemption of British subjects
from the demand for passports in France exempts them also
from their passports being demanded and given over to the
custody of the captain on going on board French passenger
steamers in the Mediterranean and elsewhere.
Mr LAYARD said that he could not give accurate in.
formation on the subject.
THE WAR IN AMERICA.

Mr LINDSAY asked the First Lord of the Treasury,
this,ow
her Powers
Majesty's
f country E
have suffered by the
w
if, considering the great sacrifice of life and property
occasioned by the war still raging between
the United
States of America and the Confederate S rues, and consider-
cinoagnrc,it theert
is lo s
ts h
withte intention o
htehpe eoopt
hlee
of
r
urope,
to use their Government, in
endeavours to bring about a suspension of hostilities.
Lord PALMERSTON said that ho could assure his
hon. friend that the subject of the loss of life and property
consequent on the unfortunate hostilities in America
occupied the attention of the Government, but it was not
considered advisable to interfere even by acting in concerl
with other Powers in the internal affairs of America.
FORTIFICATIONS BILL.
._

foundation,
On the order for reading the Fortifications (Provision for
Expenses) Bill a third time,
Mr OSBORNE drew attention to the alterations which
had been made in the original plan for the defences of
Portsmouth,,by the abandonment of the fort on the Stour-
at Spithead, on
and the effect of
ba
cr icdoguents hooratlhceo rimatnodfi na g
solid the
anchorage
which would be a considerably increased expense. He
also indulged in some animadversions upon the still de-
fective state of our ordnance, upon which in the five years
between 1858 and 1863, upwards of two millions and a half
had been expended, yet up to this moment only 2,370 guns

had been issued to the two services, of which no more than
799 were 100-pounders. It was the opinion of Admiral
Halstead, a flag officer on the active list, that the British
navy was without any gun or armour plated ship warfare ;
while the Royal commissioners reported that the only gun
we could rely upon was the old 68-pounder smooth-
bore. In fact, he believed we had not a gun for our ships,
and it was very doubtful whether we had a gun to put on
the Portsmouth forts when they were finished. He con-
tended, as he had always done, that the proper defence of
our shores ought to be confided to the navy—and he pro-
tested against this system of digging holes for the pur-
pose of burying millions in. It was time that the house
should pause in its career of reckless expenditure, and en-
deavour to see if it could not lay out the public money more
advantageously by improving and adding to our naval
efencea.

The Marquis of HAUTINGTON disputed the conclu-
sion that the country was in so helpless a condition as Mr
Osborne would lead the house to believe. He admitted
that it had become necessary, for the reason stated by the
hon. member, to abandon the site of one of the intended
forts ; but that circnmstance involved only a slight modi-
fication of the original scheme for the fortifications
of Portsmouth. If delay had occurred it was very
mainly attributable to the difficulties created by Mr Osborne
and his friends. With regard to guns, the noble marquis
entered at some length into a detailed statement of the pro-
ceedings of the War-office and the Admiralty in the endea-
vour to supply the services with an efficient weapon ; and
added that experiments with the 600-pounders had been
remarkably satisfactory, and proved that they would do all
that could reasonably be expected from them. Although wo
were not quite so advanced in respect of ordnance as he
could desire, he saw no reason why, by the time the forts
were completed, they should not be armed with a portion of
600-pounders at least, and the remainder of guns of smaller
calibre. Referring to an unfavourable comparison which
Mr Osborne had drawn in the matter of ordnance with the
French navy, the noble marquis observed that that was a
subject upon which great misapprehension prevailed, for
the French ships were still armed with old 32-pounders,
which had been rifled and converted into breech-loaders,
and would not carry a charge cf powder beyond eight or
nine pounds.
After some remarks from Captain JERVJS, in reply to
Mr Osborne's reflections upon the Defence Commission, the
bill was read a third time and passed,
THE INDIAN MEDICAL SERVICE BILL.

On the order for reading the Indian Medical Service Bill
a third time,

Mr HENNESSY moved that the order be discharged,
on the ground that the bill would give the Secretary of
State for India the power of returning to the old system of
nomination, and substituting it for the competitive system,
which Parliament and the country had generally approved.
Colonel NORTH seconded the motion.
Sir C. WOOD explained that his object in introducing
the measure was to obtain a better description of medical
officers for the Indian service ; and the bill would enable the
Secretary for India to avail himbelf, for the benefit of the
native forces, of such assistant surgeons as had entered the
Queen's army upon public competition, and might subse-
quently volunteer for the Indian army.
The bill was also opposed by Mr Monsell, Mr Lysley,
and Sir E. Colebrooke ; and upon a division the motion of
Mr Hennessy was carried against the Government by 46 to
44. The bill was therefore lost,

The Defence Act Amendment Bill and the Cranbourne.
street Bill were read a third time.

A warm discussion arose upon the motion of Mr Villiers
to go into committee on the Poor Relief (Metropolis) Bill,
the object of which is to provide for the relief of the casual
poor within metropolitan limits; objection being taken to
the rating powers with which the measure proposes to vest
the metropolitan Board of Works as contrary to their
proper and legitimate functions. Upon the understanding,
however, that the bill should not extend beyond the Ist of
April next tLe opposition was withdrawn and the bill passed
through commit,:f+e.

The Naval Discip;fne Bill was read a second time.
On the order for committing the Mutual Surrender of
Criminals (Prussia) Bill,
Mr WHITE complained that as the convention on
which this measure was founded was only concluded on the
sth of March last, it was unseemly and indecorous to in-
troduce such a bill at that period of the session. The con-
duct of Prussia was not of a nature to encourage the house
to legislate in this way. He moved that the house should
go into committee on that day month.
Mr LAYARD said that the extradition powers conferred
by the bill were precisely similar to those which were
conceded to France, Italy, and other states, and it had
nothing whatever to do with crimes of a political character.
Lord R. CECIL could not agree that the political
element was excluded. What the house had to keep in
view was the law of conscription, which was sometimes
made the instrument for perpetrating acts of gross oppres-
sion where it existed. And under this bill any man in the
Prussian army who might break through a barrack and
escape to England would come within the scope of the bill
and be liable to be returned to Prussia as a burglar.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL explained that the crime
charged against the person whose extradition was required
must be one clearly understood and known to the law of
England.
Mr FITZGERALD said that a man might be a political
refugee in this country, and having been convicted of home
crime in his absence might, under this bill, be demanded
from the British Government. There ought to be a provi-
sion in the bill to guard against such a conviction as that.
Lord PALMERSTOINT stated that the treaty and the bill
required that proof should be given to satisfy her Majesty
that if the offence charged had been committed in this coun-
try it would, according to law, justify a remand. It was
clear that no political offender could be claimed under the

treaty.
Mr J. LOCKE was opposed to straining a point in favour
of Prussia, who was doing all she could to put down liberty
on the Continent; and it was the duty of Parliament to
guard against her invasion of our shores to seize upon
political refugees.
Mr FERRAND was of opinion that more time ought to
be given hon. members to see that the treaty was in accord-
ance with other extradition treaties.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said that the treaty with
Prussia was exactly the same as that with France, and
that English judges might be safely entrusted with the
execution of its provisions when embodied in an act.
Mr FITZGERALD —That might be so, but the act of
Parliament giving effect to the treaty was entirely different.
For under the present bill a fugitive convicted of crime in
Prussia might be given up on the production of an authen-
ticated certificate of his conviction and proof of his identity,
Not one word of that sort, however, was to be found in the
French act. So far from its being identical therefore it was
exactly the reverse.
Sir G. GREY intimated that Mr Fitzgerald was referring
to the French act of 1843, not of 1853.
Lord PALMERSTON had no object ion, as there was
some doubt with regard to the purport of ,:ie treaties, to
adjourn the debate.
The debate was thereupon adjourned until this t;',13%
THE VOTE OF CENSURE ON MR. LO
Lord PALMERSTON moved that the house, having
considered the report of the select committee appointed to
inquire into the practise of the Committee of Council on
Education with respect to the reports of her Majesty's in-
spectors of schools, was of opinion that the resolution passed
on the 12th day of April last, with reference to such re-
ports, ought to be rescinded. The noble lord called upon
the house to pass the resolution as an act of generosity and
justice to the late Vice-President of Council for Education,
who had been charged by the resolution agreed to on the
motion of Lord R. Cecil with having mutilated the inspec-
tors' report—an allegation which thelinquiries of the select
committee had shown to be at variance with the facts.
Mr HOWES, as chairman of the committee, expressed
his approval of the resolution.
In tho discussion which followed, Mr Walter, Mr F.
Powell, and Lord R. Cecil took part; the noble lord show-
ing that he was still of opinion that the Committee of
Council were not justified in mutilating the reports of the
inspectors of schools, or in any way altering their meaning,
when they were to be placed before the house ; but as he
had never made it a personal question affecting the honour
of Mr Lowe he had no objection to agree to the resolution.
He was gratified to find, however, that it was the intention
of Sir J. Pakington to direct the attention of the house to
the whole question of the constitution and practice of the
Education Department early in the next session.
The resolution was then puts nd agreed to nem. con,
The other business on the pper was also disposed of,
and the house adjourned at twenty-Ave minutes to two
o'clock,

CONVICTION FOR MURDER IN IRELAND.—A
young man named Michael Morrison has been
capitally convicted at the Mayo Assize for the murder of a
sub•constable named Coulon, at Castlebar, in July, 1863.
He was returning to his lodgings from a friend's house, on
the evening of the 26th of July, when ho was attacked
in a gateway by two persons, one of whom was the prisoner,
who stabbed him with a knife, inflicting a fatal wound in
the neck. Upon being struck, the deceased was heard to
exclaim, " Oh, Lord ! did I ever injure a man that I should
be treated like that ?" and the prisoner afterwards ex
claimed, " Come on, I am after striking the with a
knife !" The jury were locked up for a considerable time.
When Baron Deasy returned to court they handed down a
verdict of guilty, with a recommendation to mercy. The
screams and wailing of the prisoner's friend at the an.
nouncement of the verdict were wild in the extreme. The
prisoner himself wept bitterly and asked for mercy. The
scene was renewed next morning, when the judge pro-
nounced sentence of death, to be executed on the 25th of
August.
GLASGOW, July 23.—Cotton—The market has
been steady during the week, and prices remain
unchanged. Iron—The stringency of the money market
has operated adversely to the pig iron market this week,
Beginning at 59s 3d cash for warrants the price has gradu-
ally but steadily declined, touching 57s Hid this forenoon.
Just at the close 55s was realised, and buyers remained-
58s lid asked. Three months, open nominally, 59s to
598 3d—G,M.B., N. 1,57 s 9j—No. 3, 57a—Gartsherrie,
No. 1, 628 6d-3, 50s—No. 1, Coltness, G2s Gcl— Cilengar-
nook, b& 614—gliatu, 584