The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-23 00:00:00

.PIMLICO IMPROVEMENT BILL.

On the question that this Bill be read a third time,
Colonel SIBTHORP opposed the third reading. of so
important a Bill at that hour of the night—half-Past
twelve o'clock, and in so thin a House. All these im-
provements were but so many expedients to expend the
public money, as in the case of the Marble Arch a
the National Gallery.
Lord MANNERS said it was a Bill to carry out an
intention that was eutortained ten years ago.
The Bill then passed.
The Douse went into Committee on the Excise Sum-
mary Proceedings Bin.
The Bill passed through Committee.
The Secretary of Bankrupts Office Abolition Bill
passed through Committee.
The Bishopric of Quebec Bill went through Com-
mittee.

The Colonial Bishops Bill went through Committee.
The House adjourned at Fialf•past One o'clock.

ROUSE OF LORDS, June 22.
The Loup CHANCELLOR. took his seat on the Woolsack
at Five o'clock.
Several Bills were brought up from the Commons and read
a first time, including the Militia Ballot Suspension B.
and Militia Pay Bill.
The following Bills were read a third time and passed
York and North Midland Railway Bill; Great Western,
Shrewsbury and Birmingham, Shrewsbury and Chester,
Shrewsbury and Hereford, Birkenhead, 'Lancashire, and
Cheshire Junction, and Hereford, Ross, and Gloucester
Railway Companies Bill ; Birkenhead, Lancashire and Che-
shire Junction Railway (Abandonment of Part of Line, &c.)
Bill; Humber Conservancy and Kingston-upon-Hull Docks
(BNilol.;
10)xBfoilrl.d, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway

presented PETITIONS.
al)e
ition from the Synod of
Lord GALLOWAY
Galloway against the Maynooth grant.
Lord COLVILLE presented a similar petition from Forfar.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a petition from
the locality against the use of Copenhagen-fields for a cattle-
market.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from the Lord
Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of the city of
London, praying the House to pass a Bill for the suppression
of betting-office.
LOSS OF THE BIRKENHEAD.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, in consequence of
what passed the other night in reference to the discipline of
the men on board the ill-fated Birkenhead, he had felt it
necessary to inquire into the matter, and he was highly
satisfied with the result. He begged, therefore, to
move for a copy of the order given on the 18th of
December last to the several depots of regiments that sent
men to the regiments at the Cape, of which such depot
formed part, which men embarked in her Majesty's ship
Birkenhead. Also a copy of the order of the 16th of June,
requiring the commanding-officers of the several depots to
report whether the men embarked in the Birkenhead were
instructed in firing a ball cartridge. And also copies of the
reports received from the several depOts in consequence.
The motion was agreed to.
CHANCERY REFORM BILL.
Lord LYNDHURST presented petitions from the Metro-
politan and Provincial Law Association, suggesting amend-
ments, and additions in this Bill, and praying the House to
adopt them.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said it would be impossible
to adopt the suggestions at present.
NAVY PAY BILL.
This Bill passed through Committee.
NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT BILL.
The Earl or DESART rose to move the second read-
ing of this Bill. The Noble Lord said he was called upon
to perform the duty of moving the second reading of
this Bill in the present anomalous session of Parliament,
bat he freely acknowledged that few Bills were of
greater importance than the Bill ho had then the honour
of asking their Lordships to approve. The Bill was
important, inasmuch as it concerned the future welfare
of a large and, he was happy to say, a rising colony.
But the Bill also concerned the interests of individuals
who, from their long distance and separation from this
country, it was scarcely possible to realise the opinion
that they were our fellow-subjects, actuated by the same
feelings and the same anxiety for the prosperity of this
great and extended empire. He was sorry that a Bill
of such importance had fallen into the hands of one who
had comparatively bat small experience, and who was
scarcely competent to undertake with advantage a task
of such magnitude. But then he was animated
to his labour by the reflection that the Bill was not
a party measure, and that on a question of this nature
all parties would be actuated but by one desire, namely,
that of supporting a measure which had for its
object the good our fellow-countrymen. He trusted the
same forbearance would be shown by their Lordships as
had been manifested in another place, and ho also trusted
that their Lordships, waiving slight differences of
opinion, would be induced to regard it favourably. The
constitution of 1847 had been suspended for five years,
and therefore it was incumbent on the Government to
legislate afresh for the colony instead of renewing that
Act. The aboriginal inhabitants were far superior to
most people of their state and condition; they were
anxious for the advantages of civilisation;_ they under-
stood its power, and they were ambitious of attaining a
higher rank in the scale than that in which they stood
at present. With these facilities, he trusted that the
aborigines by their incorporation with the European
settlers would soon form one grand community in New
Zealand. But a beginning would have to be made, and
this the Bill proposed to do, not by means of one
general council, but by six provincial councils, em-
bracing the nine settlements, each taking that which was
most facile for its operation. The vainness of legislation
for these provincial councils were strictly defined. This
was a change. In the first Bill introduced by the late
Government the superintendent of each council was to
be named by the Crown; it was, however, determined
by the present Government that the superintendent
should be an elected officer—elected by the same ma-
chinery as the council itself. He (Earl of Desert) con-
fessed that in the first instance he saw several grave
objections to this course; but upon consideration he
felt satisfied that the good to be derived from it out-
weighed the possible evil of the result. There would be
also a Central Legislative Council, composed of members
elected to serve, and members of the General Assembly.
The Legislative Council would be nominated for life,
and would consist of not less than ten persons. The
General Assembly would be elected for five years, by
the same machinery as the Legislative Council. He
would not go further into the details of the Bill, except
to allude to one important circumstance. By its provi-
sions the waste land of New Zealand was placed under
the control of the local legislature, the Crown reserving
to itself all transactions in connexion with land, as
between the colony and the aborigines. No man
was more averse than he (Earl of Desert) to yield
to the too frequently unreasonable demands of the
colonists respecting self-legislation, because he was satis-
fied that they were only too often as disastrous to the
colonies themselves as they were dangerous to the supre-
macy of the Crown; but these objections did not quite
apply to New Zealand. The aborigines, as he had
stated, were of a very different character; they were
anxious for civilization—they were desirous to amalga-
mate with the European settlers; some of them even had
money invested in English securities, one as much as
5001., another 3001., according to the statement of Go-
vernor Grey, and in a very few years there was every
reason to hope that a general fusion would take place
between them and the colonists, which would be the
greatest step yet taken for the advancement of New
Zealand in prosperity. These the principal
were
features of the Bill. Suggestions would be made, no

Sir D. NORREYS proposed an amendment, giving doubt, which would receive due consideration. But
power to occupiers rated for county and other purposes, the question was not a party one, and he hoped that
to deduct from the rent, payable for tenements whereon the Bill, as regarded its general principles, would Le
the rate has been levied, the amount of rate paid, in the adopted without alteration. He was not one of those
same way as the rate paid for the relief of the poor would that desired to plant constitutions upon the English
have been dedacted. model in every colony, however fitted or unfitted for
Mr. GROGAN hoped the Committee would not their growth; but there was always a time when it wag
adopt an amendment involving so important a principle. for the interest of the parent country as much ast
The Committee divided, when there appeared.-- that of the colonies that all restrictions should bo with'_en
For the amendment ••• •• 3 drawn and free institutions granted. The questionnah. o
Against it ... ..• ... ..• 81 ,
Majority -.. ... ... —7B thought it was. He dared not speak with.
was, whether New Zealand was in that condition,
was one in
The remaining clauses were then agreed to, and the the whole thi was an experiment; but i
fulfilling
Bill, having gone through Committee, was ordered to which he saw some future prospect of eicvilizetion for
be reported this day.
had confided to her,
The report on the Crime and Outrage (Ireland) Bill that high mission which Providence
that country. Moreover, England was now
he would be sue-
was brought up, and the Bill ordered to be read a third and there was every reason to hope
with political. •- • time this day.
The Nisi Prius Officers Bill was read a third time. _os liberty those
i which Christianity
he el
es
ss
sf ui
ol
gi
on
and advantages
a po 0 p
On the motion of Mr. FRESHFIELD, some amend. alone could afford.—(llear.)
expressed his acknowledgment,
ments were introduced in the measure, and it then passed. Lord LYTTELTON the colonists, for the good-
The order of the day having been read for consider- on his own part and that
t ofeelajesty'e Government to the
log the Patent Law Amendment Bill, as amended will manifested by d
With all its defects, it was a
v
Mr. CARTER moved the insertion of the following
clause:—" Lt any person shall, by himself, or by the 'elute; that colony, and Was in a gene-
Bill higlelyt,-Zwe, moreover, the largest instalment of
agency of any other porson or persons, knowingly, wil-
rid
pointi olation in colonial matters that had been granted
fully, and fraudulently pirate, imitate, or manufacture, colony of New
h Zfiecai
years.s ln pointing out the defects, he would
for sale or profit, any article, or part of an article, pro- for Itoho
measure by the general principles of the system
tested by letters patent under this or any other Act, ho e,.
ot tstcolonisation applied to the old North American colo-
shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and on conviction
ales of this countr
right loci;
Y; and he would take the charter of
maryland as a comparative standard, though as a pro-
thereof before any court of general or quarter sessions,
oyer and terminor, or gaol delivery, shall bo liable to
he
colon y it was perhaps not the most favourable
he could select for that purpose. The leading features
be imprisoned for any term not exceeding twelve csa;
of that charter, or constitution, were—complete freedom
lender months, with or without hard labour, or to Fin_
imps's? in regard to their legislation on internal affairs,complete
a fine not exceeding 1001., with or without
meat as aforesaid; provided always, that no
1 remedy posse4ion of the land of the settlement, complete and
tion or other- perfect freedom of trade with the mother country, the
which the party aggrieve
• d may have by ac
for this offence shall prevent or defeat any elle.
conviction e
nomination of its own officers, unlimited power of salt.
wise." -cSIEQIJE3 opposed I defence, complete powers of self-taxation, and, finally, the
The CHANCELLOR of the Ee monstrous pro. whol© expense of government thrown upon the colonists.
a more
the motion. He had never heard
As regarded the first of these
position. • d without a diviiion, the land Wei given in this Bill, for the fiist:time to the
tyre
The motion was then pept, -a wore agrecd to. trade had only been le-
Bill the -13'colonists. Complete freedom of
of the
and the amendments in
Encumbered Estates (Ireland) ! emtly conceded to the colonies, to the disgrace
a,'
i cots in the
The power of self
The amendments
mother country for many years.
points, complete control of
Bill were agreed to.
Procedure Bill was read a
The Common Law third taxation, too, had only
' colonies. In this Bill a great advance had . been
time. - that the Bill do pass,
'coloniesmade for the control of the land-fund was given to
On the questietl
aar
mo
ved the addition t still that shadowy
absurditycalled the
S. WORI-"1-es :
Mr.-- her majesty to aprl ta . •• -
of a clause, ; ;
• 1 list was retained. In the original charters
f
"To over ~:_e
she ‘-' Y +3 pi ()visions of .
" colonial civil .
Bill at any L'"
given in internal al'
been
recently
granted to
this ,
,r record in the kreagydosat those of , legislation had been, es he stated, .
deroVr court - ~
was brought up hinbket3pidreosper, to any !of the North American colonies unlimited freedom 0
and agreed to.
Wrectrainster.
The clause
' lion of the rights of
f, oD
fairs; but it was resttrhaoi
words— In any way rqui" rot
The Bill was then read a third time and passed. by these remarkable
nCedrowfrnomor loefgti.hie3tlim°llpeirnial Pt '104!
The School Sites Acts Extension Bill d through ito the laws of England." The effect of ,helatter oral
passed
Committee, as also did the kroperty of Lunatics Bill. which were retained in this Bill, was to create 0-

difficulty in point of interpretation; for whereas in former
time iticourt of justice was the medium of deciding their
rottning whenever a cause arose, at present the Cele-
nia -office—which in its nature was a secret tribunal_
Was tae sole interpreter. And it was no answer to the
okieition that existed against the practice that the
liable Earl lately at the head of the Colonial-office, on his
owe part, as well as on that of his predecessors, pleaded
the plenitude of liberality exercised by them in regard
to the power of disallowance, stating that. there was not
more than 2/ per cent. on all colonial Bills to which it
Was applied. In respect to the next point—the election
of officers—he (Lord Lyttelton) believed the appoint-
tient of a governor by the Crown was as good as the
appointment of a governor by election; but he was of
opinion that the primary evil was the temporary nature
of the office. It was understood the governor of a
colony was to be removed at the end of five, six, or
seven years; and this prevented all possibility of iden-
tification with the interests of the colonists. The next
Point—via , self-defence, was, in the charter of Mary-
land, entirely entrusted to the settlers; who had power
given them to make war, by sea and by land, on all
enemies whatsoever that came against the colony; and
there was no reservation of the duty of self-support in
that respect. The normal state of the ancient colonies
of the country was, therefore, to support themselves,
to defend themselves, and to boar their own costs:
the normal state of our modern colonies was quite
the reverse. That system was in spirit nearly identical
With the prayer of the petition presented by a Noble
Bake (Argyll) on a previous evening, a prayer which
it had been said, was inconsistent with the existence of
a colonial empire. It was, however, in operation for
More than a century when the North American colonies
Were the pride and glory of England, and when Eng-
land possessed a colonial empire in the best sense of
the word. The result was, that the early colonists
Were masculine, generous, and self-relying men; who
asked no assistance from the mother country, but who
save it. The question in his mind was not as to the
material wealth of a colony, but as to the character of
the men with whom this country was peopling the
World. The spirit of these colonists was not that of the
colonists at the frontiers on the Cape of Good Hope,who
Set forth their own unwarlike dispositions as inapplicable
for self-defence. Year after year they had to contend
zor life with savages far more daring and far more dan-
gerous than the Kafir tribes; and that spirit it was
Which caused them to rise and shako off the yoke
°f misrule which had been laid upon them
°Y the unjust domination of the mother country.
.is regarded loyalty, too, these colonies were far be-
fore the modern colonies; for whereas Franklin never
even thought of separation until long after Lord Gran-
vill's folly and oppression had driven the American
colonists to revolt, Canada and Australia talk of sepa-
!stion upon the recurrence of every paltry grievance.
411 conclusion, he (Lord Lyttleton) would only add on
the general subject, that the Bill was a return in some
sort to the ancient system of colonisation, and that he
hoped before long that system would be fully revived.
,t'te regarded the details of the Bill they were to be
looked at under two aspects. The first referred to the
Provincial governments; the second to the general go-
vernment. It was good with respect to the control of
land sales by the colonists; also with respect to
he constitution of the general Legislature, because
got rid of the intermixture in the same
Clamber of the elective members and nominees
the Crown. Many expressed their admira-
tion, of the Constitution of the United States.
For his own part ho did not wish, in any consti-
tution, for our colonies to imitate the United States
since the period of the revolution. What he would fol-
low as a model was the constitution of those states when
they were colonies of this empire. However, with re-
epeet to the Bill, taking it altogether, her Majesty's Go-
Zernment had introduced a much better measure than
‘4,0 thought they had ever intended. He remembered
:tee well-deserved sneer of the Noble Lord at the head of
he
Government, expressed at the opening of the pre.
lent session, at the amount of knowledge possessed and
of the interest felt in their Lordships' House about the
affairs of New Zealand. Nevertheless, he thought that
there was no one of their Lordship who would believe
that this Bill had been unwisely introduced, or that the
consideration it had met with had been unwisely be-
stowed; and for himself, he should be well content that
e Bill should pass without any material alteration in it.
Lord WODELIOUSE said that all who had paid any
Wendell to the frame work of the Bill would readily
acknowledge that, in a theoretical point of view, there
Were some objections to be made to it—that in fact they
WOald not find in it a perfect model of a constitution.
here appeared to be a total absence of any leading
trinciple m it, and it might be plausibly objected to that
gave a disproportionate amount of government for so
mall a community—a government consisting AS it did
..,k4 six provincial legislatures, a general legislative
raembly, comprising two houses, a governor in chief,
and six provincial governors—and all this for a popula-
'On not numbering more than 20,000 Europeans alto-
gether. With respect to the analogy which had been
sought to be established between the New Zealand
‘lonies, ho did not think it could hold; the cir-
etajastances of each were so different, and in no one
were they more different than in the compara-
tively easy means of communication between the
different parts of the colony which now existed, and
Which afforded facilities for carrying out a central
government. Neither did he think that the
Itanaple of the United States of the present day was
Tne United States territory was so large
at it would be impossible to have free institutions in
lit? except in a federal form. New Zealand was in a po-
:tion comparatively isolated, and the powers given
ii`etler this Bill, undoubtedly large as they were, would,
had no doubt, be readily put into operation. The
People of the neighbouring Australian colonies, how-
ever, could not but strongly feel the contrast which their
Z)liatitution presented to that given by this Bill to New
Zealand, conferring as the latter did, the management
of
thatthe waste lands upon the colonists themselves, whilst
Z management in the case of the Australian colonies
Was made a matter of reservation for the Imperial Go-
vernment at home. The effect of the contrast would
tCobably be to abandon the management of the waste
lids to the colonists in the case of Australia also. An-
other important concession made to the colonists in this
vul was on the subject of the veto of the Imperial Go-
vernment and the power of disallowance of Bills for two
,ears by the governor. These were wise concessions,
Itld made at the proper time. We had now colonies
speedily growing up to manhood, and if we treated them
L a geuerous and liberal spirit, abandoning all vexatious
readily
in their purely local affairs, they would
Merest
submit to general control in matters of Imperial
kerest to the Imperial Government in return for the
Protection afforded to them, bound as they are to the
o.,!)ther country by community of language, of commer
'linterests, and of political institutions.
11,1:he Duke of NEWCASTLE regretted that the Bill
Was
come before them at a period of the session when it
1.4! la vain to expect to secure a discussion on either the
that d
reading, or in the Committee, notwithstanding
the measure was one of the utmost importance, and
*St in it the Government had made concessions which
Were so large that he doubted whether the Government
ktd really intended to confer them. For his own part
,?pertainly approved of the Bill, especially of the pro-
Otlton which admitted of the colonists altering the Con-
tution, should it appear to require it; for it was im-
Bible for the Government here at home to legislate
isatisfactorily upon all the various and conflicting points
%Deo which even the colonists themselves would find
,great difficulty in coming to a unanimous de-
CS. Three different schemes of government had
i`uri suggested for the colony—viz., a central go-
e,,ttlinent a sub-division of the colony into two
'4-laces—and thirdly, the plan now before the
teUee, giving a separate local legislature to each of
l, six separate provinces, controlled by a central
4eelBlature, which was composed of the elements of
Six. With respect to the first of these, he held it im-
Zesible to establish a central government, when, in
41ity, there was no natural centre in the country.
Provinces;
was equal objection to the subdivision into two
(l
and, with respect to the third scheme, he con-
ga..ciered it by far the best. As to the objection that the
eunt of population was not sufficient to warrant so
~
ZlAch machinery of government as this Bill contained, he
Population
it by no means an insuperable objection: the
;`)i Inflation would rapidly increase, and a large population
ss by no means an essential element in a local govern-
-gent. Ile was only afraid that the concurrent power of
:44e local and the central legislatures would not act bar-
eniously, and that there was some ground for the ap-
tehension that great confusion would result from it. It
legislature;
a wise proceeding to exclude nominees from the
Zgiehiture; they formed a most jarring element in the
v,.....Alatitution of the assemblies in other colonies; and it
j" equally prudent to concede the appointment of the
11):Perintendents by election in the colonies. It would
far easier for the colonies to obtain in that way
~-'lCore suitable man for the office than the Government,
,
)71 the opinion of Governor Grey confirmed that view.
2 now came to a part of the Bill to which he could not
offer the same weed of approbation that he gave to other
"unions of it—he alluded to the
.principle which it
Opted with regard. to the constitution of the Upper
Ass
of the Legislature, and in which respect there
B a complete departure from the Bill upon which the
Leasure was said to be founded, for the Bill of Earl
ey, he believed, adopted the elective principle. The
etilt of the measure seemed, to him (the Duke of New-
,
Lie) to bo a want of unity of principle; and he could
alt
she nominee
help thinking that the same grounds for abandoning
nominee system in the representative Chamber
4mould have induced the Government to abandon that
trletern in the case of the Upper Chamber.
Bill would place the Colonial Secretary 1
.Angatihne,
taition of an arbitrator, whose office it would
0, to act between the Governor and nominee Chain:,
de and the representative body. Moreover, he was
onion that they would never get a body of nominees
h Pay that attention to the work which was required
htiril a legislative assembly. This system was intended,
Presumed, to bear some sort of resemblance to im-
p,rial institutions ; but if it were so, it appeared to him
that the Government were pursuing the shadow and not
te substance of a Conservative policy. He thought
tiY were grasping at a notion of something Conserve-
t'e in a nominee house of assembly—something of an
e i,estT4Perial character—whilst they were losing the sub-
stance of a really Conservative measure namely,
iltltieg this body elective, and thereby introducing men
ti" had an interest in the colony, and in the preserve-
le tt of all that concerned it, which nominee members
jt4otin had, and, he believed, in fact never could possess.
emWas absurd to suppose that a nominee chamber in a
like New Zealand could have any similarity to
tc;-` "louse of Lords. There was no element in the colony
e correspond with such an institution, and though
iLthaPs, in theory, at first sight, appointments by
d Crown or the representenve of the Crown
Obt look rather more like a House of Lords than a
elected by the people, yet if it were practically
1e0a,„41, ined, the appearance would fade away, and it
IV" at once be seen what a shadow and an unreality
" whole thing was. Further, if the nominee chamber

T II E

were regarded merely as a power which gave to this
country a check upon the representative chember, then
ho centanded that any such holy was superfluous. The
Governor appointed by the Crown had the power of veto
on the acts of the Logisleeive Assembly, it was, there-
fore, quite unnecessary to create another power of veto
in a body of nominees. He (,he Duke of Newcastle)
was not an advocate for giving the right of election cf
members for the Upper Chamber to the same body of
persons who elected the House of Representatives; but
he thought a higher electoral qualification might be
adopted, that the el, cted might enjoy a longer tenure of
office, and that the area of representation might be en-
larged. With regard to that portion of the Bill which
related to the land sales and the New Zealand Company,
he recommended that the clauses should be postponed
until the charges which had been brought against the
company had been fully examined and reported upon.
After having given to the matter the best consideration
in his power, he could not help thinking that it would
be wise, just, and politic, and that it would lead even-
tually to a more satisfactory settlement of the question,
that the clauses relating to the New Zeeland Company
should be altogether omitted from the Bill.
Earl GREY sail that he thought it advisable to deal
in the first instance with that subject to which the
Noble Duke had directed their attention towards the
conclusion of his address, namely, the clauses ia the
Bill which referred to the claims of the New Zealand
Company. He certainly regretted to think that it should
be necessary to lay on that rising celoey a charge such
as that which those clauses would impose. But it ap•
pear d to him that that was a necessity arising out of the
obligation to do justice to those without whose efforts
and sacrifices there would be no colony at ail in New
Zealand. Many persons were in the habit of finding
great fault with the Now Zealand Company; and he had
certainly never been one ef their determined supporters.
But at the same time he was bound to say that, in his
opinion, the cry which was at present raised against
them was not less unjust than the attempt which had
formerly been made to support them had been unwise and
uncalled for. The high character of the gentlemen who
presided over the company certainly offered a reason-
able ground for supposing teat they had, at all events,
acted in an honourable manner; and there was this
further ground for that belief, that they had been heavy
losers by their connexion with the undertaking. Large
sums had been sunk by them, for the repayment of
which they had only the distant prospect held out to
them by the arrangement set forth in the present Bill.
For his part, the great fault which he found with them
was that they had shown themselves somewhat deficient
in worldly wisdom and prudence, in adopting too easily
the plausible schemes of a very clever projector—a pro-
jector whose talents he (Earl Grey) should be the last
man to deny, but whose cleverness was not accompanied
by other qualities quite as necessary to make him a safe
or a trustworthy guide. Ho thought, too, that the di-
rectors of the company had failed to evince any high de-
gree ofjudgment in conducting the great enterprise in
which they had somewhat rarhiy embarked. But perhaps
that was a necessary consequence ot the very con-
stitution of a hoard of directors. He believed that such
a board was never likely to be capable of a consistent
and sound management of the affairs of a great com-
pany, unless some one individual took a complete lead of
the rest of the body, and virtually became its manager.
That the Nev Zealand Company had not succeeded in a
pecuniary point of view was not, in his opinion, much to
be wondered at. The difficulties in the way of founding.
a distant colony were so great that he believed under-
takings of the kind could never be a source of profit to
their original projectors. He might state, for the pur-
pose of illustrating those difficulties, that the Canterbury
Association had, as he had heard, gone through the
common lot, and had declared itself insolvent within the
last few days. Ho believed that the correct principle
for Parliament and the Government to adopt in such
cases was to avoid, as far as possible, any interference
with the projectors beyond what was required for guard-
ing the country from the danger of future expense and
future trouble, and for preventing those public
calamities which might take place it the Government
were to exercise no control on those occasions. Perhaps
his Noble Friend near him (Lord Ly ttelton) would
allow him to illustrate the principle which he thought
ought to be adopted in those matters, by stating the
course which he had pursued at the period of the foun-
dation of the Canterbury Association, of which his
Noble Friend was a most distinguished member. That
was a plan for the formation of a great Church colony
in a part of New Zealand which had then been unoccu-
pied. He had been told that the projectors had had a
large sum of money ready, and that they had been pre-
pared to undertake their scheme at their own risk with
the assistance of the New Zealand Company. He had
ventured to express very strongly to the projectors his
opinion that they would be greatly disappointed in their
expectations; and that with the large price which they
asked for land they would find it impossible to afford to
purchasers the advautages which they promised. But
he had also told them that if nothing were done
which could in any way delude the public as
to the real state of the case, and if certain regu-
lations were adopted for the purpose ot insuring
the people of this country and of the colony against
claims which might otherwise arise against them,
he could see no objection to the scheme being under-
taken at their own risk. He had thought at the time,
and he still retained the opinion, that whatever might be
the disappointment to the original proprietors, a colony
would be established which would in the end become a
great and flourishing community. The association had
been formed, and the results had been precisely such as
he had anticipated. In his opinion it was no part of tho
duty of the Government or of Parliament to find pru-
dence for private individuals, and to prevent them from
embarking in measures which, as far as they were con-
cerned, might not lead to satisfactory results. In the
case of the Canterbury Association no claim was likely
to arise against the public, and for this reason, that the
relations between the association and the Government
had been clearly defined from the commencement.
But, unfortunately, in dealing with the New Zealand
Company, the same course had not been adopted.
They had claims against the public arising
out of the fact, that in the earliest stage of
their existence their measures had been thwarted
partly by the Government at home, and still more by
the local authorities in the colony, and that by that
means their chances of success had been diminished.
That was the conclusion at which the Committee of the
House of Commons, which had inquired into the subject
in the year 1844, had arrived; and that Committee had
further decided that that circumstance gave the company
a claim against the Government and Parliament which
were bound to place them in as good a situation as that
which they would have held if no such ground of com-
plaint had existed. The Noble Earl opposite (the Earl
of Derby) had himself felt that claim so strongly that
immediately before his retirement from the Colonial-
office he had made arrangements for assisting the com-
pany by means of a loan. When he (Earl Grey) had
been appointed to the direction of the same office, ho
had found that what bad been done for the company had
been very far indeed from compensating them for the
injury they had sustained in consequence of previous
measures adopted towards them, and more especially in
consequence of the great delay in giving them possession
of their land. He had thought that something further
should be done in order to enable them to try fairly the
scheme for which they had been originally incorporated.
The subject had, accordingly, been placed in the hands
of the late lamented Mr. Charles Buller, who had di-
rected great attention to the question, and had on va-
rious occasions shown great ability in discussing it; and,
after considerable inquiry, Mr. Buller had devised an
arrangement which had ultimately been approved of by
him (Earl Grey) and by his colleagues in the Go-
vernment. The great points on which he had espe-
cially taken precautions against future disputes and
inconvenience were, first, that the pecuniary assist-
ance to be given to the company was not to exceed
a certain amount, and next, that that was to be a con-
clusive measure—that it was to be a discharge in full of
all possible claims on the part of the company. The
Bill of 1847 had been prepared in order to carry out that
arrangement, and had ultimately received the assent of
Parliament. In working out the arrangement it had al-
ways appeared to him that there had been one clear rule
for him to follow—namely, to remember that the great
object of the measure was to enable the company to try
fairly whether the plan of a great colonising company
could succeed. He had thought that it had not been the
duty of the Government to have decided whether the
measures of the company had been prudent or not, be-
cause the essence of the scheme had been that the com-
pany should receive a large discretion. At the end of
the period which had been named by the company them-
selves for fairly trying the experiment they had found
that, notwithstanding the largo pecuniary assistance they
had received, they could no longer have gone on; and
then they resigned their functions, and had, under the
terms of the Act, made certain claims upon the Go-
vernment, which were ultimately to be paid out of the
land revenues of New Zealand. He certainly felt sur-
prised to hear the Noble Duke declare that the company
had no moral claims upon the Government; and he (Earl
Grey) would defy any man to inquire into the facts of
the case and come to the conclusion that the claims
of the company could be honestly repudiated. He
rested those claims on the simple wording of the Act of
Parliament as it already stood. That Act, in his opi-
nion, supposed the ultimate payment of the debt; and if
it were to be paid, it was the interest both of the com-
pany and of the colony that it should be paid as speedily
as possible by the best administration of the land revenue.
He entirely concurred with the Noble Duke (Newcastle)
that an inquiry into this subject was imperatively neces-
sary, and that in another Parliament a searching inves-
tigation before a Committee of the House ought to take
place. So far as he was concerned, he wished that every
letter and document, public or private, shoulcidee pro-
duced and carefully examined, and that the result should
be fairly reported upon by an impartial Committee.
He was persuaded that if that was done, although he
was far from hens prepared to defend every act and
proceeding of omflpatnyupotnhertehewOhuolndoubre
bfroupnrdobnitoy-
wahcom its affairs were carried on.
of the gentlemen
s to take place, it would be worse
As an inquiry wa .
thing whatever
ntobyre
charges
sopinionthat a withlead
bean
oo
n regard
broughtto
the groundlessness, o
than useless in him tof
House could fully understand
trevechaa
impossible that the
against the company elsewhere. It would be also
the case in all its complications without a lengthened
reference to the voluminous papers which had been laid
before Parliament. But there were two main points put
forward as charges agarisnt, that of applying
companyst
to which he
would briefly allude—first, the public
money entrusted to them to purposes not originally in-
tended; and second,
as to certain opinions that had been
sent out to the colony.
With regard to the first of these
he could say,
charges, for the two gentlemen who were
connected with the administration of the funds as
—com-
missioners, and without whose permission no money
could be applied one of them had become involved in
some disputes with the company, which in the end led to
his removal;
he was succeeded by a gentleman in whose
judgment he belt eaual confidence, while he
honour and