The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-08 00:00:00

th
• e usual application to the Treasury to transfer an
.amount to the Poor-law Board. This was an error
whizh he (Sir J. Trollope) would take good care should
"lodehaepeu again, for the check ho had put upon the
of paying the accounts rendered its recurrence im-
Possible. He mint say, however, that the officer who
transacted the business of this department was a very cid
%ad valuable servant of the public, having been in the
Patella service for about eighteen years without ever
making a similar mistake---(Hear, hear)—and he (Sir J.
Trollope) really thought it was hardly worth while to
trouble the House with such a subject.—(Hear, beer.)—
. At all events he believed the House would agree with
him that it was not a matter which called for the
°ensure of that House upon her Majesty's Govern-
Inent----(Hisar, and a laugh.) -
THE BRITISH AMERICAN R AILWAY.
Sir H. VERNEY wished to ask the Colonial Secre-
taryL whether the letter addressed to him on May 1 by
'ue Ron. 'Mr. Hineks, and which was published in the
Times of May 31, was authentic; and, if it was, whether
he was able to give to the House any information or ex..
Planation of the eircurastaucee unclet which it was
written?
Sir J. PAKINGTON—I can assure the Hon Baronet
who has put this question to me, that so far from hay-
in
any objection to ansveer • it, I feel greetly indebted
to him for having afforded me an'opportunity of giving
• the explanationh he has requested. The letter to which
""" Ron. Baronet has adverted is founded entirely upon
a mistake. I have no knowledge how that letter found
its way into the public prints, and I must say I think I
have reason to express at least surprise that such a let-
ters forming part of a series of correspondence, should
have been inserted in 'the newspapers of this country
Without any of the documents that preceded or followed
it,—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) The
• r, natural result of the insertion of such a letter in the
Papers, without any explanation of what preceded or
followed it, has been, that most erroneous inferences
. have been drawn, sad that very wrong impressions have
gained currency with regard to the circumstances which
' Preceded and followed the writing of that letter. It ap-
Pears to me that the complaints egeinta the conduct of
the Government are three in number. The first corn-
Plaint is, that the deputation which came over to this
country from Canada on the subject of the proposed
railway were left for seven weeks without any answer.
. It is next complained, that when an answer was given
it was not communicated officially to the gentlemen
who formed the deputation to this country, but was
obtained by them through a private channel. The third
complaint is, that the gentlemen who came here es a
deputation from the provinces of Canada and New
Brunswick were not treated with that consideration and
confidence to which their position in their own country
entitled them. Now, if the House will favour me with
their attention for a few moments, I think I shall be
able to show how far these complaints are well
founded. With regard to the first complaint, that the
gentlemen forming the deputation were left for seven
Weeks without an answer from the Government, I
must beg permission to refer to dates. Mr. Hineks ar-
rived in this country, as a delegate from Canada on this
subject, about the middle of March. Directly after
his i arrival I had several interviews with him
relative to the proposed railways, and in those inter-
" liiews he communicated to me the views of the pro-
vWeriee of Canada. He also stated to me that he was one
11
deputation of three gentlemen, and that the arrival
o"'owe Chandler from New Brunswick, and of Mr.
"'°we from Nova Scotia, might be expected by the next
aPaoket. Under these circumstances, I considered—and
think the House will deem I was justified in consider-
a`ng—that the negotiation was not to be proceeded with
e7til. the deputation was complete—(Hear, bear)—espe-
wiatialYthaesmhl r Chandler and Mr. Howe were to bring
from Nets Brunswick N B • k and Nova Scotia the
Ahttet that had been passed upon this subject by the Legis-
e:res of those colonies. I made frequent inquiries
m time to time whether those gentlemen had arrived,
and I
• t. was told that they had not yet reached England,
that
So they might be expected by the next packet.
M things went on until the 20th of April, on which day
he, Chandler called at the Colonial-office. I believe he
it,
4q [Arrived some few days before, bat I did not know
hit% Howe, however, had not arrived, and I ought
not" to mention that the two Acts of the colonies did
a lete.rrive until the 28th of April. On the 26th of April
at tis'_er was written by Mr. Hincks to the Noble Lord
for the head of the Government, requesting an interview
ea himself and Mr. Chandler upon this subject. I think
t,41 "ow the House how little the Noble Lord (the
of this 9f Derby) was disposed to underrate the importance
in deputation by reading to them the memorandum
the handwriting of the Noble Lord at the back of
ea_
Rincka'a letter. It is,—
Of Give him an early appointment. This matter is one
to very great importance, but I should wish, if possible,
%ure) together with Mr. Hincks, the representatives in
Matter of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia."
hteh Noble Lord's secretary made an appointment for the
e °f April, the first day on which he was able to see
co." gentlemen; and on that day the Noble Lord re-
, of"'ed Mr. Hiucks and Mr. Chandler, and at the request
th nIY Noble Friend I was present. At that interview
" ol
motwh 0 au ject was talked over, and on the very next
Iw:l4g—te Besof May—Mr. Hincks wrote the letter to
aa it the Hon. ronet has referred, and in the early
Lrrat, of that letter Mr. Hineks says, alluding to the in-
vmsr of the previous day—
pe: I left his Lordship in the confident hope that I should
Ikeive an early communication of the intention of her
Ist( este.'e Government."
14. lineks then goes on to say that the arrival of
Howe could have no effect on the question of route
7:fur.‘l one raised by her Majesty's Government.
and ?we had not then arrived, and he did not come;
tha this leteer of Mr. Hinekie of the Ist of May, was
first intimation I received that the two other mem-
iiZof the deputation considered the presence of Mr.
preect'a unitnpurtant to the negotiation. I immediately
hatoilett to act upon that intimation, and at the Ca-
. Of ma C"'moil held on the following Saturday, the Bth
• foreeed).--the matter having previously, of course,
Chiverneethe subject of conversation among the
' before -.Liat-e...the whole question was fermally brought
deoidathe Cabinet, was fully discussed, and was finally
--"e". I hope toe statement I have made will
rreee
g that the
there was no pretext whatever for say-
the deputation was lett without an answer from
any fault of her Majesty's Government. It has been
question
that, atter the Cabinet had decided the
sigestion no communication was made to the gentlemen
terming the deputation, but that they learned the clod-
' ht°ll of the Government incidentally through a private
source. Now, owing to the great pressure of business
*e-and I trust the House will make allowance for the
erman, pressure of business that did occur in the
I?fliee to Which I have the honour 'to be attached—
(llear)-eseveral days elapsed after the Cabinet Council
. arrived at their decision before I was at leisure to pre-
Pare a dispatch on the subject. In consequetice of that
delay, and of subsequent delays dfter the dispatch was
draugated; the dispatch was not finally written for
sending until the 20th of May. I should say that Mr.
Hiacika had previously intimated his intention not to
leave England until the 27th of May, and ho did not
go until a much later period. On the 20th of May the
dispatch was sent to the Governors of the three colonies
of Canada, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia ; and
an the same day, by my directions, official copies
• of that, aispateh were communicated to Mr.
flincks and Mr. Chandler. In the meantime I had

made co communication, public or private, upon
~,718 Saint to any party; and if either of these gentle-
;B:l_4d-indirectly ascertained the decision of the Go-
vernment, I cannot say how they got the information. It
certainly was not through any act of mine. I hope I
hear.)
;aye answered the second allegation.—(Hear,
` now come to the third subject of complaint—that
these gentlemen were not treated with the consideration
to which their position entitled them. I should be ex-
tremely sorry if it should be thought that the Govern-
Ment were for a moment open to such an imputation. On
the arrival of Mr. 'Hacks I had several interviews with
him, and I extended to him that courtesy and hospi.
tality which I thought were duo to his distinguished
station in his own province. I have been told that I
ought to have resented his letter. There certainly are
expressions in that letter which have the appearance of
having been written under some feelings of irritation—
expressions which I think are not borne out by the
facts—expressions which I read with regret, and which
cannot help thinking Mr. Hincks must regret having
used. But, Sir, I must say that, looking to the fact
that the greater part of these letters were written in
a tone perfectly respectful, I have no hesita-
tion in avowing to the House my feeling, that
if unconsciously and unintentionally, under the
pressure of business, which really is sometimes almost
overwhelming, I had—l am sure lam not aware that I
had—been guilty of any omission towards these gentle-
alien, I thought it more, consistent with my duty to the
queen, with my own office, and with the friendly rela-
tions which I hope will always subsist between the great
colony of Canada and the mother country—(Hear, hear)
that I should continue to act in the same spirit of
Courtesy as before, rather than go out of my way and
take,,. offence, or make any quarrel on the subject.—
(Hear, hear.)' That was the spirit in which I am dis-
posed to act towards these gentlemen, but it should be
recollected that Mr. Hincks was not the onlypershoh,
concerned.'.. d
It would not bo correct to draw any istic
tei '"tcseen me. Chandler and Mr. 'Rucks, but yi r.
andler hue
.written no petulant letter. Ile is a gen-
istingulshed by great ability, a man of high ghaoter, and one who, like Mr. M has,
Hincks, by the
power of his own talent, raised himself to the highest
Position in the colony. I most readily admit that these
-":11
4t t gentlemen were entitled to every consideration in this_
trY at the hands of her Majesty's Government, and
1,1,11/ Opinion is that they received it. I continued, to the
ose of their stay in this country, the same hospitality,
'uo saute courtesy, with which our intercourse com-
/nee ee
and I had reason to believe they were
dac'e* impressed by the gracious and spontaneous cone
s4e ension they received at the hands of her Majesty.
t the close of their stay they called at the Colonial-
°Moe to take leave, and we parted on the most friendly
terms,
and certainly I had no reason to believe there was
411 Y off
1. have once taken on their part.—(Hear, hear.) I hope
said enou h to show that the allegation of delay
•`'S tlo the part of the Government is unfounded, and that
t„44' We were willing to treat these gentlemen with every due
consideration. In offaring this explanation I have not
touched on the policy of her Majesty's Government with
respect. to the decision at which they arrived. The
41„ (In• Member's question did not refer to that decision,
-'llu I tto2 sure the House will feel that the occasion of
answering a question is not the proper moment of re-
.,. "ring to such a subject.—(Hear, hear.) The answer
7.1,4),-. g` en to these gentlemen was given on the responsibi-
, itS Of her Majesty's Government, and whenever the
proper moment arrives I shall be prepared to vindicate
131 y share in it.—(Cheers.)
__ m
Sir D. ..NORREYS asked the Secretary of the Ord-
, mance whether any arrang ent had yet been made to
enable the public to purchease copies of tracings of the
Unpublished maps of the borough towns of Ireland?
, galena' DUNE replied that the Ordnance had no

..61..6 911.16

ohketion to give the maps, but they could only employ
those persons who were regularly engaged on the Irish
Or Scotch surveys to make the tracing. Tne OrduaLee
were now obliged to pay all the money they receive for
th3so maps into the Treasury, but, if they re-
ceived a gum of money for the purpo.se, they would be
very happy to supply these maps to the country.
THE CAPE..

ADDERLEY rose to aik the Secretary of State
for the Colonies whether the dispatches just arrived
from the Cape announced the passing of the constitution
-t-rdinanees-:; including the alterations of the irstochise
against which the Attorney-General protested; what
inormation bad been received relatihc, to the rumoured
advance of Prtetorius against the Zoolas; rend whether
treaties were actually entered into with the Kafir chiefs
for the termination of the war? The papers and letters
just received were full•of the importance of the expres-
sions of Lord Derby last year, when he said in the de-.
bate on the Cape in the House of Lords,—
" He might have hesitated to grant so largo a measure
of representative geverhment as that now proposed to be
granted to the colony, but he would say that, as &itch a
proposal had been made on such high authority, and ae
it had obtained the sanction of the colony, an 3 the im-
plies' sanction of the Crown, any danger or risk was to
be encountered rather than not to fulfil those expectae
Lions; and he would not bate one jot of the popular in-
stitutions proposed to be confided to the colony, however
anxious he might be as to the working of those institu-
.

tions in the first instance."
He wished also to know if the Goiternment intended to
carry out their legislation. on the subject this session? ,
Sir J. PAKINGTON said. that the question of.which
the Honourable Member had given notion Gmbraced
three points, to which he had added a fourth, and, in re-
plying, he (Sir J. Pakington) would take them seriatim.
As the Honourable Member had given notice of the
question on Saturday, he prosumed the Honourable
Member referred to the accounts which came over a
week ago with Sir Harry Smith, and he might pot be
aware that a mail had arrived this morning. By the mail
of a week ago he (Sir J. Pakington) had received a
dispatch from General Cathcart, stating that ho had
thought it to be his duty to pass the constitution ordi-
nances with the alterations made by the council;. and by
the mail of this morning he had received the ordinances
themselves. As to the second question, he was very
happy to be able to state that the rumoured advance of
Prmtorius against the Zulas not only remained without
foundation, but that by the mail this morning he had re-
ceived the agreeable information that a convention had
been agreed to bAween Prmtorius and her Majesty's
Commissioners, and that peaceful relations had been
established.—(hear, hear.) As to the third question,
whether treaties were entered into with the Kafir chiefs,
be regretted to say he had no information that they wale,
and he was afraid, from the dispatches received from
General Cathcart, there was no reason to believe there
would be. With respect to the fourth question, ho did
not know till a week ago that the ordinances had, been
sanctioned by the new Governor, and as the ordinances
had only arrived this morning at the Colonial-office, he
thought. the Hon. Member would admit it would be ex-
tremely premature for him to attempt to state now what
were the intentions of her Majesty's Government on this
subj ect.—(Hear.)
NAVAL RESERVE.

Sir G. PECHELL wished to ask what steps had been
taken to carry out the reserve of 5,000 men which had
been provided for by a vote of the House?
Mr. STAFFORD had to state, in reoy, that no steps
had been taken to carry out that system, and that, after
much consideration and consultation among those best
acquainted with the subject, it was considered the scheme
was on the whole impracticable.
PRUSSIA AND NEUFCHATEL.

Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to ask whether
any communications had been received by her Majesty's
Government respecting a recent conference between the
representatives of the great Powers of Europe, with re-
ference to the claims.of Prussia upon Neufchatel; and,
secondly, if the Noble Lerd knew if there would be any
objection to lay the papers on the table of the House.
Lord STANLEY (who spoke in a still lower tone
than Lord John Russell, so that he was very indistinctly
heard) was understood to reply that a conference had
been held, and a protest signed by the representatives of
the four great powers, on the subject of the Prussian
claims on Neufchatel. There was no doubt in the mind
ot•Government, or, he believed, on the mind of auy per-
son who had turned his attention to the subject, that
Prussia had certain rights over Neufchatel, which rights
had been recognised by the treaty of 1815. It might
not be altogether irrelevant to observe, as it was a fact
of same importance, that this was the first public act by,
which .France, under her present ruler, had recognised
the settlement of Europe made in 1815. At the pre-
sent time, at all events, it would be impossible to lay the
papers connected with this conference on the table of the
House.

PUBLIC BUSINESS.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose
and said,—l promised to-day to state to the House the
views of her Majesty's Government with respect to the
business that is before the House, and in reference to its ex-
peditious dispatch. It was my intention originally to have
selected this day to express these views. I thought that
as soon as we sat after the holidays it would be desirable
that we should come to some conclusion on this subject;
but the reason why I fixed on this day was that I thought
the House 'would be indisposed to have the explanation of
the views of Government made on the first day after
they met, and that it would be reasonable, instead of
taking the fag. end of the week, to select the first Monday
after we assembled for business. If It had not been my in-
tention to fix on this day, it would not have been possible
for me to cousider the dispatch of this duty, in consequence
of the appeal and memorable spech made by a Right Hon.
Gentleman on the re-assembling of the House. That
Right Hon. Gentleman is one who necessarily and justly
exercises a very great influence over the opinion of this
House, and though, indeed, he is listened to with great
respect upon all subjects, on none is his opinion more re-
garded than in the conduct of public business. The
statement of that Right Honourable Gentleman was calcu-
lated very much to arrest public attention, and to produce a
very considerable effect in the House, especially among those
not very familiar with the details of the subjects the Right
Hon. Gentleman spoke upon. Certainly he conveyed an impres-
sion to the House and to the country that the state of public
business was extremely unsatisfactory; that there was a
vast accumulation of business, with a very slender prospect
of its being disposed of, and that at the end of the present
session there would be no possibility of dealing with the ac-
cumulation before us of business, all of which, as the Right
Hon. Gentleman very truly stated, was of a highly important
and pressing character. The Right Hon. Gentleman said,'
on that, occasion, that be felt deeply on the subject, that he
viewed it with great apprehension, and that it was with no
ordinary feelings of apprehension and upon no ordinary sub-
ject that he spoke, because it was not the mere reputation of
this particular House which was at stake, in the opinion of
the Right Hon. Gentleman—though the reputation even of
this House, I think, must be dear to him—but it was really
a fear that if we did not take care we should bring represen-
tative government itself into disrepute.—(Hear, hear.) And,
that there may be no mistake on the matter, I will quote the
words which the Right Hon. Gentleman repeated that he
feared:—
" This assembly, which has been the great landmark of
representative government and the great example of repre-
sentative assemblies throughout the world, will be brought
into disrepute.
And that it will appear we are unable to transact our own
business. Now, Sir, it would be—it must be—a most serious
state of affairs which could warrant such words from such a
man. The Right Honourable Gentleman did not confine
himself on that occasion—listened to as he was with becoming
attention by the House—to a mere general expression of
the apprehensions under which he was suffering. He went
into very great detail on the subject; he took a minute re-
view of the state of the business before the House; he called
the attention of the House to the various subjects before
them, grouping the several Bills on all-important matters
in that clear and perspicuous manner which he always
commands; and he laid down the data from which he
drew the inference he communicated to us; and which,
in his opinion, warranted the apprehensions he felt. Indeed,
I read in a very great authority on the day following that it
was evidently an herculean task to deal with the business
before the House of Commons; and that even to form a
catalogue of it, or to enumerate it in detail, required the
colossal power of intellect for which we are all willing to
give the Right Hon. Gentleman credit.—(Laughter.) Under
these circumstances, I felt an unusual responsibility placed
upon me in the position, for which I am every day more
aware lam not calculated. I felt it was a terrible responsi-
bility to incur, that under the guidance which I had been
able to give to the business of the House, assisted ley the
kindness of Honourable Members on both sides of the
House, I had brought public business not only to a perilous,
but to a disgraceful position.—(Hear, hear.) Well, Sir, under
that feeling I have examined, with all the assiduity the
circumstances of the case required, the state of the public
business before ns. Feeling that I am responsible for its
general position, I have endeavoured to see if I could in
some degree escape from the consequence of neglect of duty,
or from the results of that incapacity with which, though
the Right Honourable Gentleman was courteous enough nut
to charge me, he must have felt I was liable to be accused of.
Under the challenge and appeal of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, I will examine very briefly the business now before us,
and the prospects and ultimate fate of all the Bills to which
he
referred. I will follow
the evening
Gentleman, because it the order taken by the Right Hon.
referred
tis now familiar to the House. On
for legal reform which areoubseefortehetheimmfßtail
thei_ Right Hon. Gentleman particu-
larly impressed on the
probably inferior in importancenisceofofthtehire kind
Bills
House. The Right to no business before the
Hon. Gentleman on Thursday, when the
House assembled, said, with
—first, to the Common Law reference to three of these Bills
secondly, to the EquitableeTurisdif fclure Amendment Bill;
the Bill for the Abolition of Masters
Bill; and, thirdly, to
Hon. Gentleman said, to use his own phrase, Chancery—the Right
his own language, " Not one step has yet been
and to pursue
House with regard to any of these three Bills taken In this
beyond their
introduction." He expressed a hope on Thursday
would on Monday be able to give some information that I
subject, and I have now the pleasure of remindin thentititltst
lion. Gentleman, that as to both of the Common {Law Juris-
diction Bills, and the Bill for the Abolition of Masterships in
Chancery, with respect to which not one step had been taken,
very important steps have been taken by this time, and all
three have been read a second time.—(Hear, hear.) But
there were two other Bills of legal reform beside those to
which the Right Hon. Gentleman also alluded—the
Suitors in Chancery Relief Bill, and the Bill respect-
ing alterations in telrye law of making wills. As the Right
authority upon all subjects but
lion. Gentleman, so great en
on the subject of legal reform, the very highest in this
House, said, on Thursday, it was impossible to exaggerate
i
the magnitude, difficulty, andmportance of those questions.
Well, on Monday, I have the pleasure to inform the Right
jl
faitude,difficutty,
Hon. Gentleman that those two Billet the us s
exceeded,
be have
and importance of which could not
So much for
en-
tirely passed through this House.—(Cheers.
) them having
these important hills on legal reform—two of
them having
entirely passed the House of Commons, three of
been read a second time, and no material opposition being,
anticipated to their progress, I think her Marsty's Govern-
ment are not arrogant or presumptuous in saying that they
would pass the Legislature and become law without at all
interfering with that termination of Parliament which is
now so rife in every one's mouth. Well, the Right Hon.
Gentleman then proceeded, with all the clearness which cha-
racterizes his mature statements, to another group of Bills
which were still on the table—those which he de-
scribed as colonial Bills. On Thursday last, calling
on me on Monday to give an account of the intentions of
voyermeut, with that influence which became his situation,