The Sun.
London, England, 1852-12-15 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 15, 1852.

the ratepayers in counties, any facilities for borrowing
money for bridges, shire halls, gaols, asylums, &c., cor-
responding to those which they have hitherto enjoyed
under the Public Works Loan Commission ?

The Earl of DERBY said there could be no objection
to grant the returns moved for by his noble friend ; but
he found since his noble friend had given notice of his
motion, that there was a return made to the House of
Commons on the Bth of July, 1851, which would give
up to that period the whole information which his noble
friend asked for ' • and probably there might be some
little variation of the terms of his noble friend's motion,
so as to include the return made to the House of Com-
mons—a course which would probably suit the public
convenience, and at the same time effect the object which
his noble friend had in view. With regard to the ques-
tion which his noble friend had put, he imagined that his
noble friend adverted to the declared intention, on the
part of the Government to suspend the continuous issue
of a sum amounting to 400,000/. or 500,000/. a year, under
the management of the Exchequer Loan Commissioners.
It was the opinion of the Government that in the present
state of the Money Market it was not desirable that the sys-
tem should be continued which was introduced under very
different circumstances, and at a very different time, for the
purpose of meeting a great public distress, and of facili-
tating the lending of capital by private persons, With
respect to the reluctance of private money lenders to
advance money which would be paid by temporary in-
stalments, and the consequent inconvenience not only
with regard to public works, but various others.
The motion, as amended on the suggestion of the Earl
of DERBY, was then agreed to ; and the house ad-
journed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS--(YESTERDAY.)
( Continued front our Third Edition of last evening.

THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.

Mr. OSBORNE said, that so far from having any
wish to review the financial scheme of the Government
in a captious spirit, he was willing to give credit to the
right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer
for two main points in his budget. He felt that he was
entitled to credit, in the first place, for the relief he had
afforded to the shipping interest. He lamented, indeed,
that he had not gone further, and taken the duty off
timber; but at any rate he thanked the right hon. gen-
tleman for what he had done in that line. (Hear,
hear.) He thought likewise that the right hon. gentle-
man had taken a sagacious and statesmanlike view with
respect to the tea duties. He was not disposed to quar-
rel and split straws with him because the reduction was
to be effected in six years, instead of a less time, as pro-
posed by the hon. member for Glasgow, but he would
at once say that he thought the right hon. gentleman
deserved credit for these two improvements. (Hear,
hear.) He was even disposed to go further, and say
that the statement of the right hon. gentleman in bring-
ing forward the budget was as clear a statement as had
ever been put before the house. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
Osborne) knew no man in that house who combined the
two antoganistic qualities of lucidity and obscurity so
much as the right hon. gentleman—(laughter)—but he
was bound to admit that in placing his financial state-
ment before the house, he had done so without any re-
serve or mystification, and that there could be no mistake
on either side of the house as to what they were about
to vote for in the present budget. Having made these
admissions, he trusted he might be allowed to look at
the budget as a whole. And if it was true, as the hon.
member for Taunton (Mr. Mills) stated on the previous
night, that there was universal disappointment through-
out the country at the contents of the budget, he would
take the liberty of asking what that disappointment had
arisen from ? Was it not from the magnificent promises
which were held out by the Chancellor of the Exchequer?
(Hear.) The promises of the right hon. gentleman were
so magnificent that the people in the country actually
thought he had obtained possession by some means of
the philosopher's stone—that a fiscal millennium was
about to ensue—that the time was coming when tax-
gathering would cease, and when the consolidated fund
would be converted into, a refuge for distressed agricul-
turists. (Laughter.) What was it that "loomed in the
distance" in the month of June last ? If he understood
the promise which was held out by the right hon. gen-
tleman in his address to his constituents, as advertised
in The Times of June last, and again in his speech at
Aylesbury, as reported in the same paper, it was just
this,—that in his forthcoming budget he undertook no
less a task than the total revision of the taxation of the
country not a mere shifting of taxation from the
shoulders of one class to another. (Hear, hear.) In
his address to his constituents, dated June 2, 1852
and he begged the house to remark that that was not a
common address, merely soliciting the votes of the
electors, but an address in which he propounded a policy
conveyed in beautiful language and most indistinct terms
—(laughter)—in that address the right hon. gentleman
said :

" One of the soundest means, among others (to diminish
the cost of production), is a revision of our taxation :
juster notions of taxation are more prevalent than here-
tofore ; the possibility of greatly relieving the burdens of
the community by both adjustment and reduction seems
to loom in the future."

Well, what had happened in December ? Had they had
a revision of taxation ? (Hear, hear.) No. All that
they had was an' ingenious attempt to tranfer a large
portion of 2,500,0001., ',ht.\ was now raised through
the means of an Excise duty, to the shoulders of a_class
who were not supposed to be very favourable to the
Government. (Hear.) And' he begged the house to
remark, that while the remission of taxation was left to
"loom in the future," the increase was to be sudden and
immediate. (Hear, hear.) He denied that the Budget
would at all conduce to reconcile conflicting interests, as
the noble lord the member for King's Lynn seemed to
suppose. The noble lord, he observed. had succeeded in
catching the jargon of the other side of the house. It
was merely " the area of taxation that was to be in-
creased" by the present Budget, they were told—which,
to his (Mr. Osborne's) mind, looked very much as if a
certain portion of the Budget were about to be with-
drawn. (Hear, hear.) The Budget seemed to him as if
it had been conceived in a hostile, if not a revengeful
spirit, againstthe middle classes. (Cries of "Oh I"
from the Munsterialists.) What did the Chancellor of
the Exchequer say in that singularly lucid and clear
speech of his ? He said, that "the ten-pounders were
revelling in the relief which they enjoyed from the re-
peal of the corn laws." These words conveyed some-
thing very distinct to his mind, and convinced him that
the right hon. gentleman had framed his Budget, not as
a healing measure to reconcile conflicting interests, but
as a scourge to the backs of those who were "revelling
in the relief which they enjoyed from the repeal of the corn
laws." With respect to the question of direct or in-
direct taxation, he begged to say that he had never been
one of those who had theorised much on that subject.
In his opinion direct taxation might do very well in a
new country, but in an old country like ours, with a
large debt, and a purely artificial system, he thought we
ought to proceed with great caution in laying on direct
taxation. He now came to the speech of the Home
Secretary last night, and he must say that he thought
the criticism of that right hon. gentleman upon the
observations of the right hon. baronet the member for
Halifax (Sir C. Wood) was most extraordinary. The
right hon. gentleman (Mr. Walpole), alluding to the
house tax, said that the right hon. member for Halifax
had imposed a most unjust tax upon houses ; and what
was the remedy proposed by the Home Secretary ?
Why, he thought the tax so unjust that he proposed to
double it at once. (Laughter, and cheers from the Op-
position.) [Mr. Walpole was understood to say that he
had described the tax as unequal.] Well (continued
Mr. Osborne), but how did the right hon. gentleman
render it more equal ? The Government adopted an
arbitrary line, and proposed to extend the tax to 101.
houses, but, if the tax was just in principle, why did
they stop at 101. houses ? (Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
Osborne) was not one of those- who were particularly
enamoured of the house tax. He I doubted the justice
of that tax, and he thought the honourable member
for the West Riding had succeeded last night in making
out a very strong case against it ; but he asked the
Home Secretary, if the house tax was unequal under
the dynasty of the right hon. member for Halifax, how
he (Mr. Walpole) made it more equal by extending
it to 101. houses ? Why were such large numbers of
cottages in the country to be excluded from the opera-
tion of this extended tax, which would tell almost
exclusively upon the towns ? He contended that if
this tax was just in principle the Government were
bound to apply it equally to town and country. (Cheers.)
What was sauce for your town goose was equally sauce
for your rural gander—(loud laughter)—a,nd it was not
by cutting the feathers of the one bird that any com-
pensation could be given to the other. (A laugh.) Let
the house mark that "compensation" was the term, and
he was prepared to argue that this plan of laying on the
house tax was nothing more than compensation to the
agricultural interest, (Some cries of "No," and " Oh!"
from the Ministerial benches, met by cheers from the
Opposition.) Now he would, with their permission, in-
form them what were the opinions of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, expressed in the months of March and July
last, as to his plans for the compensation of the landed
interest. It was a very curious thing that the right
hon. gentlemen had fixed upon the exact amount' of
compensation which he was ready to give. The right
hon. gentleman said :

" It is quite clear, by your system of local taxation, land
is subject to 2,500,0001. more than any other property in
the country." Now this was the exact half of the malt
tax which the right hon. gentleman proposed to take off.
" If Parliament will not, in the manner I recommend"—
namely, by countervailing duties, which were now given
up, "do justice to the agricultural interest, they must
submit to a revision of the taxation of the country, and
they may depend upon it the redress which their own
sense of justice will ultimately prompt them to accord to
-the agricultural interest will be obtained in a manner far
more coarsely, and by means much more expensive." . .
" The policy of her Majesty's Ministers is to do justice to
the land ; to bring in measures of redress for all those
great producing interests which are now suffering injustice ;
if the country will not have recourse to these remedial
measures we bow to their decision ; but, though wo may
not be Ministers, still, as members of Parliament, we will
labour for other measures of redress • wo will, though in
opposition"—in which situation he (kir. Osborne) hoped
soon to see them—(laughter)—" exert ourselves to obtain
those countervailing and compensatory regulations which
justice demands."

That was in the month of March ; but, at a dinner of
his constituents at Newport Pique], on the 14th of July
the right hon. gentleman said :

" It is in reviewing the system of taxation, in the re-ad-
justment of that system, that the cultivators of the soil

find that compensation which they have a right to expect
from the abrogation of the corn laws."
That was the opinion expressed in the month of July
last by the right hon. gentleman at the head of the go-
vernment. (Some laughter from the Ministerial side.)
Well, the right hon. gentleman (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) was at the head of the Government.
(" Hear," and some cheering from the Opposition.)
There was no doubt of that, and he was glad to see the
right hon. gentleman, on account of his abilities and
talents, in such a position- (Hear, hear.) But what did
a right hon. gentlemen say who was at the tail of the
Government? (Laughter.) He would inform the house

what were the opinions of that right hon. gentleman,

which were so far valuable, because he was almost the
last of the Romans—the last of the Protectionists.

(" Hear," and a laugh.) Whenever the right hon.
gentleman wrote a letter ho (Mr. Osborne) was always
delighted to see it. (Laughter.) It was true that a
great many letters had been forged in the right hon. gen-
tleman's name, but in order to secure correct copies, he
(Mr. Osborne) did—what he recommended every hon.
member to do—he took in the Stamford Mercury—
(great laughter)—a most excellent paper—(a laugh)—
and, having the advantage of being the right hon. gen-
tleman's organ, no fictitious letters were printed in it.
(Renewed laughter.) Well, what did the right hon.
gentleman the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
say ? He (Mr. Osborne) was going to read them. Mr.
Christopher's very last----(laughter)—his very last letter to
the electors of Lindsey, is which he expressed his opinions
upon the present budget. The right hon. gentleman,
writing to the poor deluded Lincolnshire farmers, said,—
" The Government have presented a financial scheme,
which, although there is only a surplus revenue of
1,300,0001., will relieve the agricultural interest of a vexa-
tious impost to the amount of 2,500,0001."
(Laughter.) Well, the right hon. gentleman did not
seem particular to a shade or two. (A laugh.) He did
not tell those to whom he wrote that in his way of stat-
ing the question he was leaving a deficit of 1,200,0001.,
but he endeavoured to persuade the electors of Lincoln-
shire that the financial scheme of the Government
would, from a surplus revenue of 1,300,0001.,—the Go-
vernment, he (Mr. Osborne) supposed, being so gene-
rous as to make up the difference from their own sala-
ries—(a laugh)—enable them to remove a vexatious im-
post of 2,500,0001. Now, he (Mr. Osborne) asked any
gentleman whether, after hearing these statements of
the head and tail of the Government,--(laughter)—com-
bining all shades of opinion, they could doubt that the
house tax was laid upon the middle classes as what the
right hon. gentleman called a compensatory regulation
for the suffering agricultural interest ? (Some cries of
" Oh !" from the Ministerial side, and cheers from the
Opposition.) He thought there could be no doubt that
this house tax was laid on for no other reason than to
compensate the agricultural classes for what they had
lost by the repeal of the corn laws. (Hear, hear.)
Now, they had heard a great deal about the malt tax,
and he must say that if the Exchequer was overflowing,
and other more oppressive taxes were taken off, he for
one would have no objection to vote for the repeal of
the malt tax, but at the same time he thought it was
one of those taxes which ought not to be removed,
unless the country was in a state of great prosperity,
and there was a real, and not a fictitious, surplus in the
Exchequer. The right hon. Secretary for the Home
Department, in dealing with this question last night, had
argued as if there was a great surplus in the Exchequer,
and he did not seem for a moment to consider that by
taking off the malt tax he was making a deficit.
The right hon. gentleman kept steadily out of the consi-
deration of the house the fact that in taking off the
malt tax he was making such a deficit that the Govern-
ment were obliged to extend the house tax, and to lower
the income tax to 1001. of precarious income, and 501.
foe simple. The right hon. gentleman had argued the
matter as if he was doing all this from an overflowing
Exchequer, instead of commencing by making a deficit.
He (Mr. Osborne) thought the right hon. Home Secre-
tary, when he was arguing as to the effect of repealing
the malt tax, and looked back for something like 100
years, quite forgot the altered habits and tastes of the
people of this country. He seemed completely to have
forgotten that the people of this country now consumed
upwards of 60,000,0001 b. of tea, and 40,000,0001 b. of
coffee, and that the taste for those beverages was un-
questionably extending. He (Mr. Osborne) would not
stop to argue this question upon sanitary grounds, for
he believed that to be purely nonsense. (Hear, hear,
and a laugh.) He believed it would be just as possible
to prove that there was a great increase of nervous dis-
orders in consequence of the use of tea, as to prove that
there was any harm in good wholesome beer.—such beer
as brewed by his excellent friend the member for Derby
(Mr. Bass). He (Mr. Osborne) believed beer to be a
good, wholesome, and national beverage ; and, there-
fore, he at once dismissed all sanitary considerations on
the subject. (A laugh.) He must deny, however, that
this proposed reduction of the malt tax was a consumer's
question. He denied that the price would be materially
affected so far as the artisan and mechanic were con-
cerned. (Hear, hear.) What had every gentleman who
was acquainted with the brewing trade, and who had
spoken during the debate, said on the subject ? The
hon. member for Derby, who, he thought, had sailed
rather near the wind with regard to protection, had
admitted last night, that although barley had been fall-
ing in price for many years, the brewer was the only
man who got the benefit. Indeed, that hon. gentleman
said in effect, "If you'll take off the whole malt
tax, we will give you something handsome ;" and
it seemed that this "something handsome," if one-half
the malt-tax was repealed, would be a farthing a quart
upon the price of beer I ("Hear, hear;" and a laugh.)
But, if_ it did not benefit the Lov: would till,:
partial remission of the malt-tax benefit the farmer ?
Now, he (Mr. Osborne) was himself a considerable bar-
ley-grower. He had taken some pains in considering
the e.yid he did not believe the proposed measure
-could benefit the agricultural interest Teneyally. What
portion of the agricultural interest was chiefly suffering
at this time ? Not the producers of barley. (Hear,
hear.) He knew that the barley-producers were never
better off than they were now. He had himself sold bar-
ley last week, and he never got a better price since he
had been farming. (Hear, hear.) But what was the
description of agricultural land, the occupiers of which
were now complaining ? The heavy clay lands, the
wheat lands. (Hear, hear.) Well, he might be told,
perhaps, that this land would be forced into the produc-
tion of barley ; but what sort of barley would they get
from 'such land ? (Hear, hear.) Every one at all ac-
quainted with the subject knew that the inferior sorts of
barley had no sale with the brewers, but the brighter
kinds of barley, such as Vie best chevalier barley, were
what they bought. It was then absurd to suppose that
the partial remission of the malt tax could be of any be-
nefit to the farmer. Then something had been said
about the advantages which would be derived by the
farmer with regard to the fattening of cattle ; but the
opinion of all the practical men of science,—of Liebeg,
of Dr. Lyon Playfair, and of others, which were quoted
before Lord Monteagle's committee in 1846,—was, that
cattle might be fattened much better upon ground barley
than upon malt. He (Mr. Osborne) denied that this
partial remission of the malt tax would benefit either
the consumer, by lowering the price of beer materially,
or the agricultural interest as a whole, by allowing the
farmer to grow a high class of barley, or to fatten his
cattle. to advantage. But he could adduce on this point
the evidence of a gentleman who had applied his mind
to these matters, and who was well qualified to form a
judgment on the subject. In the year 1851, when the
hon. member for Derby brought forward his motion for
a reduction of one half of the malt-tax, the hon. member
for 'North Warwickshire (Mr. Newdegate) expressed
himself in the following terms :
" No man had voted more steadily than himself for the
total repeal of the malt tax ; but its partial remission
would neither diminish the expense of its collection nor
remove the restrictions which it imposed upon agriculture
or on brewing at home ; in short, it would afford none of
those indirect advantages which the agricultural commun-
ity valued. He would rather support the partial reduc-
tion of a customs' duty than that of an excise, because a
reduction of the first would lead to a diminution in the
staff for collecting customs, while no such advantage could
be obtained by the partial repeal of an excise tax."

Now, if he (Mr. Osborne) were to speak for five hours
—if he were making a budget speech, and he did not
say so sneeringly, for he had listened with great delight
to the whole speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
—he could not adduce better reasons against the partial
remission of the malt tax. He therefore claimed the
vote of the hon. member for North Warwickshire on
this occasion. He had, however, a still higher autho-
rity against the partial repeal of the malt tax—that of
the late Sir It Peel, who summed up most compendi-
ously the advantages and disadvantages of the tax in a
speech which he made in 1835. (Hear, hear.) In
that speech the right hon. baronet proved most con-
clusively that no tax was collected at so trifling a loss
to the revenue, and he showed that 5,100,000/. of
revenue was collected at an expense of only 150,0001.,
and warned the house in the most emphatic language
against tampering with that tax. He (Mr. Osborne)
found that whenever the house had made any changes in
the malt tax they had always come back to its reimpo-
sition. In 1816 one half of the malt tax was removed,
and in 1819 it was again imposed. In March, 1821,
the tax was repealed, and in the following April the vote
was rescinded. On a Friday in 1833, also, the malt tax
was repealed, and on the following Monday the resolu-
tion for its repeal was rescinded. He thought that if
the house adopted the proposal of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer they would enter upon a most mischievous
course, for they would remove a tax which was collected
at the least possible expense, which was onerous and
oppressive to no one, which would not relieve the agri-
cultural interest as a whole, and which would not
cheapen beer to any great extent. They would, in fact,
be repealing a tax in order to keep up a delusion that it
would benefit the agricultural interest, while, in fact, it
would only benefit the brewer and the publican. (Hear,
hear.) He must say he regretted that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer appeared to have forsaken all his former
schemes. He wished to know why the right hon. gen-
tleman had not moved for a committee of the house to
consider the peculiar burdens affecting land. (Hear, and
alaugh.) What had become of the right hon. gentleman's
schemes for the growth of tobacco in Ireland ? (Hear,
and a laugh.) What had become of the right hon. gentle-
man's proposal for placing the establishment charges of
the poor-rate on the consolidated fund ? The right hon.
gentleman had given no reason the other night for not
having stood by his colours, and for not bringing forward
some motion to place the establishment charges on the
consolidated fund. He (Mr. Osborne) would not pro-
mise the right hon. gentleman his vote, but he would tell
him this, having some interest connected with land—that
he thought it would be a very fair subject of inquiry
whether there were any peculiar burdens affecting land,
in order that the question might be finally set at rest.
He thought the right hon. gentleman was bound, after
all his promises, to have held.: out to the agricultural
interest something more solid than this partial repeal
of the malt tax, which was, in fact, no concession to
the agricultural interest, He (Mr, Osborne) entirely

dissented from the manner in which the in come tax had
been treated by the Government. He re garded that tax
as most inquisitorial in its nature, and as extremely de-
moralizing to the people of this country... It was only
necessary to read the evidence of Mr. Pr ei isly, and of the
other witnesses examined before the committee on
the income-tax, to be satisfied of it s demoralising
tendency. He (Mr. Osborne) must, however, deny the
statement which had been made, that that tax had been
imposed in order to maintain free trade. .He understood
—when the tax was brought forward by the late Sir R.
Peel—that it was proposed as a temporary expedient to
make up a deficit. (Cheers.) It was merely a temporary
expedient voted for three years—(hear, h ear)—but Par-
liament had since gone on voting it for tihree years at a
time. It had been said that the public ha• d become habi-
tuated to this tax, but, for his own part, he hoped the
public would not become habituated to i t—(hear, hear)
—for he regarded it as a most odious tax, because it was
both inquisitorial and demoralising. Th, 3 Government
were bound to state their views upon thiis subject, and
as to the length of -time for which this inc, >me tax was to
be imposed ; for they had at other threes given very
strong opinions upou it. Lord Derby• said, on the
28th of February, 1851, in the other houss', that " any,
surplus revenue that might arise should, i i the first in-
stance be applied towards a reduction and. final extinc-
tion of the income tax ; " and that wrier followed up
in the House of Commons by a mottion to that
effect, made by the President of the India Board
(Mr. Herries), whom he (Mr. Osborne) was sorry
not to have heard upon this Budget :for the right
hon. gentleman was an able financier, arid his studied
abstinence from assenting to anything in t b is budget was
remarkable—(hear, hear)—when he was appealed to,
there had been nothing but a grave shru g• and a very
suspicious silence. (Hear.) He (Mr. Osborne) would
not go into the distinction attempted to be drawn be-
tween precarious and certain income ; he, did not feel
qualified to give any opinion as to the justice or the
scientific accuracy of the discriminating duty proposed.
That question had puzzled many wise men.. He remem-
bered hearing the late Sir R. Peel say that; if you deter-
mined to interfere in that way, you would have to do
away with the tax altogether—that you never could
make any approximation to a discriminati cm. He (Mr.
Osborne) wished to look further into the .subject before
pronouncing upon that part of the scheme. (Hear.) He
would proceed now to advert to some very remarkable
opinions which he had heard uttered the other night by
the hon. member for Hertfordshire (Sir E. B. Lytton),
whom, however, he begged to assure, when venturing
upon any criticism of those opinions, that :no one more
admired his literary talent—(hear, hear)--he read him
with delight by day, and listened to him with pleasure
by night—(laughter and cheers)—he wan a man who
must do honour to any assembly of which he was a mem-
ber. (Cheers.) But this must be said of that distin-
guished member of Parliament and of the literary world,
that he gave somewhat original reasons for his change of
politics—a subject into which he (Mr. Osborne) should
not have thought of entering, but that the hon. baronet
had considered it necessary to make a defemee not only
for the Ministers, but for himself, when his conduct was
not impugned. (Hear, hear.) The hon. baronet said
he had always abided by the Liberal party till it was in
a state of exhaustion, and then he left it. For what ?
Because he differed with them on the principle of free
trade. And what did he do ? Why, he joined the
other party just as they had given up the principle for
opposition to which he had left his friends ! (Laughter
and cheers from the Opposition.) A singular reason for
so eminent a member of Parliament to give ! (Hear.)
Singular that he should have left the corpse of the noble
lord without consigning it to a decent funeral—(laughter
and cheers)—but more singular that he should have
left the noble lord upon a difference on the principle of
free trade, and joined the right hon. gentleman opposite
just as he had given up the principle for which the hon.
baronet forsook the noble lord ! (Hear.) He hoped
the hon. member had not forgotten his speeches for the
ballot and triennialeParliaments. He hoped the air of
Herts had not had that enervating effect upon him that
he had forgotten his vigorous youth when representing
Lincoln. "Hear, hear," and a laugh.) But he
chiefly referred to the hon. baronet because he gave an
extraordinary opinion, for him the other night, in favour
of direct taxation. Probably one of his books, by which
he would live longest in the world, was that admirable
work upon the institutions of this country " England
and the English." (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Osborne)
would advise every new member immediately to get a
copy of that work—(laughter)—because there was a
chapter on the formation of a national party which, at
this particular epoch, was well worthy of study—(hear,
hear)—and in which he gave his opinion upon taxation ;
and here were his views on taxation. They were a little
curious, as compared with his present views. This was
in chapter 8. The book was published in 1840 :
" I have little faith in the virtue of any commutation of
taxes. I have studied the intricacies of our finance; I have
examined the financial systems of other countries ; and I
cannot discover any very large fiscal benefit as the probable
result of new combinations of taxation. House and win-
dow-taxes are less just than property tax."

(Cheers from the Opposition.) He then went on, in re-
ference to direct taxation, of which he was now enamoured.
" An immense national debt renders direct taxation a
dangerous experiment."

(Hear, hear.) And here was a most extraordinary note ;
he (11fr. Osborne) believed it was only appended to the
fourth edition. [Sir E. B. Lytton.---" The book was
written twenty years ago."] This was published in
1840. [Sir E. B. Lytton—" 1833.1 But had the hon.

member forsworn all his opinions- of 20 years ago ?
Then b. Lal tile other nio,+
knear, hear, and laughter.) He (Mr -Osborne) thought
the hon. member quitted his party only for free trade.

(Hear.) But at any rate this note was worth listening
to, and was most instructive. This was revised by the
hon. gentleman • it was the last edition he revised, and
here was the editor's note ; let county members listen
to this :

" I firmly believe that if the national debtor be ever in
danger, the fatal attack will come less from the Radicals
than the country gentlemen"—(lond cheers from the Oppo-
sition)—" who are jealous of the fundholder or crippled
with mortgages. The day after the repeal of half the malt
tax (leaving a large deficit in the revenue) was carried I
asked one of its principal supporters, a popular and inde-
pendent country gentleman —he (Mr. Osborne) believed it
t
was Mr. Cayley—(laughter)—and he had nothing to say
taguaprioenspnairt
jut!'itieaer p
edcefiouneunittLofo'illidßemyrTa, ee
If shim—at"
tax of 2 perhcoewnt.h,'eqpurootPh does not sufficeosheel,
asked I, `Why, then we must tax him 4 per cent.,' was the''
honest rejoinder !"

The hon. member, transplanted from the healthy atmos-
phere of Lincoln to the rather sickening and enervating
soil of Hertfordshire, came down and said it was written
20 years ago. He (Mr. Osborne) supposed the hon.
member was now a convert to direct taxation, and very
probably he would go upon " Master Fundholder."
(Laughter and cheers from the Opposition.) In this de-
bate very little comparatively has been said upon the
Irish part of the question. (A. laugh.) The Chancellor
of the Exchequer, in his address to the Buckinghamshire
constituency, eloquently alluding to that country, said
that "Ireland had irresistible claims." He (Mr. Osborne)
was one of those who, though representing an English
n
anyte
circumstances
paltry consid
of Ire-
land,erations
in
t
co constituency, but n
r oper ty
wise,ofrom
inwould never shrink from
saying thate
was he
neither Ireland,
thought, under
beneficial, nor politic, to ex-
tend any additional taxation to that country. (Hear.)
He would go further, and say the " consolidated annui-
ties " were a gross injustice to that country, and the
labour-rate,people of that country, and no option was given them
inthespeedibnyg
it, but
tmhoenire
roads were broken up was forced upon the
and th e
h people
system. (Hear, hear.) He would say further, that the
famine
was a bad and unjust
looked upon as an imperial
o u
gtalways
calamity—(hear, hear)—and Ireland no more charged
for it than she would have been for the expense of a de-
fence, if a foreign invader had landed in Ireland—(hear,
hear)—and till these accounts were upon a juster footing
he, for one, would be no party to an increase of taxation
uponlreland.
hon. member for Belfast (Mr. Davison) last night were
t
weight, one
Bne eeiilutd, if the arguments of the
have little hope for Ire-
land. The hon. member, who said he was no orator,
but a simple man of business, gave as a reason for o have an y
sup-
porting the budget, that there was a most popular lord-
lieutenant, a most amiable chief secretary, and most
intelligent law officers. (Laughter and cheers.) It was
true enough—(ministerial cheers)—but was that any
reason why the people of this counti-
were to be loaded
with the house tax (Cheers from the opposition.) If
he (Mr. Osborne) might speak respectfull—
y to the Irish
members, who he thought in the main always voted
right—(hear)—for the advance of great and liberal prin-
ciples—(hear)—he would say to them, " Beware how
you inflame the mind of the English people by laying on
a tax you refuse to bear yourselves." (Loud cries of
"'Hear, hear.") But the virtues" of tile Irish function-
aries were no argument for laying on a tax, and would
be very little consolation to the English householder
when the collector called. (Laughter.) The Home
Secretary wound up his most interesting and spirited
speech by an elaborate panegyric upon his colleague the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. He (Mr. Osborne) was
not prepared to say that in many points of that pane-
gyric he did not fully concur. (Hear, hear.) He would
grant all that was said as to the energy, the ability, the
great powers of the right hon. gentleman—(hear' hear)
—he would grant it ungrudgingly and fully, (Hear,
hear.) He thought the right hon. gentleman had the
ing enium velox, audacia perdita, sermo promptus.
("Hear, hear," and laughter.) But he must take ex-
ception when the Home Secretary talked of him as the
most bold and prudent financier the world had ever seen.
(Laughter.) With regard to finance, he (Mr. Osborne)
was of opinion that the great majority of that house
would incline to think that in financial projects " discre-
tion was the better part of valour." (" Hear, hear,"
and laughter.) But the right hon. gentleman went on
to say, following in the footsteps of the hon. member for
the North Riding (Mr. Cayley), that this budget must
be a most popular budget, because there was such a cor-
dial reception at Guildhall—(laughter)—and he quoted a
passage from Lucretius, as he (Mr. Osborne) believed;
but he was irresistably reminded of a parallel scene in
the life of two illustrious men in bygone days at Guild-
hall, he alluded to the reception of Buckingham, and
Richard 111., when Duke of Gloster, at Guildhall.
Gentlemen would remember the quotation in Slaak-
speare

" When he had done, some followers of mine own,
";At lower end o' the hall, hurl'd up their caps,
" And some ten voices cried, God save King Richard,!'
" And thus I took the 'vantage of those few,—
" Thanks, gentle citizens, and friends,' quoth I ;
" This general applause and cheerful shout
" Argues your wisdom and your love to Richard.' "

The passages were somewhat parallel. (Great laughter
and cheering.) He would venture to suggest to the
Home Secretary, when he, quoted the reception at Guild-
hall, that it was not very probable a set of well-to-do
gentlemen, who were met to discuss the tender merits of
turtle and venison, would be inclined to criticise with

any severe eye the dry details of a financial project.
(Hear, hear.) No, those were not the classes they must
quote as giving a cordial reception to their budget.
(Hear, hear.) It was the industrious clerk, striving to
support his family upon an income of not 1501. a year—
(cheers)—it was the energetic mechanic, just emerging
into independence—(cheers)—whom they must ask what
I they thought of the budget. (Hear, hear.) Sure he was
this budget could never be popular with those classes in
this country ; and he called upon the house, in the name
of those classes, to resist a budget which was based at
once upon tyranny and injustice. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON observed, that if the
hon. member (Mr. Osborne) was disappointed in the
budget as meagre, others, such as the members for Hali-
fax and Cambridge (Sir C. Wood and Mr. Goulburn),
complained that it contained too much, and that it would
have been wiser if he had divided it over two years.
(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Alderman Thompson) conceived
that the budget was a bold, and wise, and statesmanlike
budget. (Cheers from the Ministerial side.) It was one
which, in his opinion, deserved the confidence of the
country— (hear, hear)—and, he believed, with the ex-
ception probably of the persons assembled within those
walls, it had it. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The hon.
member said the budget was framed in a revengeful
spirit. Did he mean to say that the working classes
would receive no benefit from the reduction of the duty on
tea, and from the reduction of the sugar duty in July?
[Mr. Osborne—That is not in the budget.] Well, but
when he complained of the hardship upon those who
occupied houses at rents between 101. and 201., it was
proper to show that they found relief from the course
of legislation adopted of late years, and that they
had more than an equivalent in the reduction of duties
on foreign commodities requisite for their comfort.
(Hear, hear.) Of all investments, capital invested in
201. and 101. houses was the most productive. They
generally paid from 10 to 20 per cent. ; but parties
always calculated what the taxes were, as well as the
rent, and the tax was a landlord's tax. An hon. mem-
ber (Mr. Cobden) attempted last night, but failed, as he
(Mr. Alderman Thompson) thought, to draw a distinction
between the tax on land and that on houses. He (Mr.
Alderman Thompson) did not mean to say that he was
prepared to vote for a double house tax, but he was pre-
pared to go the length of voting that the tax should be
extended to houses of 101. rent. (Hear, hear.) The
hon. member for Middlesex expressed his approbation
of that part of the budget which related to shipping, but
intimated that a reduction of the timber duties would
be deemed a greater relief than the remission of dues.
He (Mr. Alderman Thompson), knowing something
of shipowners, was very much startled at that pro-
position. Yesterday, he met with the largest ship-
owner in England, and when he said so, he must be
taken as meaning the greatest shipowner in the whole
civilized world. That shipowner, on being asked
what he thought of the proposition made by the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, said, "Nothing in the world
can be better." "Not better than the repeal of the
timber duties ?" he (Mr. Alderman Thompson) replied ;
"Pooh, the repeal of the timber duties would be a mere
drop in the ocean," was the response. With respect to
that part of the Budget which had reference to the
sugar-growing colonies, he must say, that though relief
would be given to a small amount by the facility given
for refining sugar in bond, he was of opinion that the
course of legislation which had been pursued with re-
spect to those colonies had been unjust. For the last
year he admitted that the import of sugar grown in the
British colonies had been considerably increased ; yet
that increase might be attributed to the great quantity
which was planted in 1850, when there was a differen-
tial duty of 7s. per cwt. He was afraid that in the
next two years, when the Duties on British and foreign-
grown sugar would become equalised, it would be found
that the est Indian colonies would fall off greatly in
respect of production. (Hear, hear.) With respect
to the duty on tea, he had always laboured under
the apprehension that if that duty were continued at a
rate equal to 240 per cent., while the Chinese admitted
British manufactures at a duty of 5 per cent., and
America, which was the next importing country, in
point of quantity, to the United Kingdom, admitted tea
from China without duty, the time might come when
the Chinese Government might say they would charge
more than 5 per cent, on the cotton manufactures of this
country. With respect to the income tax, he admired
the courage of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in propo-
sing a modification of the present uniform rate of charge.
When he heard the Secretary for the Home Department
allude last night to terminable annuities, he hoped that
the injustice which a uniform rate of income tax involved
in that case would be considered, and relief afforded.
With reference to the censures cast on the Chancellor of
the Exchequer by the right hon members for Halifax and
for the University of Oxford, in consequence of the pro-
posal to extend the income tax to fundholders in Ireland
he (Mr. Alderman Thompson) agreed with the noble lord
the member for Lynn, that the debt was the debt of the
United Kingdom, and not of England solely. By the 6th
clause of the act sth George IV., passed to facilitate the
transfer of stock in Ireland, it was enacted that each
stock should be deemed, reputed, and taken to be one
capital or joint-stock. It was not the poor shopkeeeper
or the landowner that was the stockholder in Ireland.
It was the banking interest; and the joint-stock banks
in Ireland were carried on not by Irish but by English
capitalists, who were making large profits. (Hear,
hear.)

Sir B. HALL said, that the question the house had
decido ;- tho ~..utuer the house
tax should be doubled, or should continue at its present
amount. He was surprised to hear that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer was not disposed to take issue upon
that question, but only wished the house to determine
that the area of taxation, as regarded houses, should
be extended. But that was not the question. The real
question was, should the house tax be doubled for the
purpose of repealing the malt duty ? He would en-
deavour to show that the increase of the house duty was
unfair and unjust, and that the distinction drawn be-
tween the tenant-farmer and the tenant-tradesman was
invidious, and ought not to be carried out. He would
show that while by the proposed plan the inhabitants
of towns would be additionally taxed 4 or 5 per cent.,
the inhabitants of rural districts would be relieved 50,
60, or 70 per cent. The noble lord the member for Dur-
ham (Lord A. Vane) said last night that if any unpopu-
larity attached to this tax it would be owing to the mem-
ber for Marylebone, who had excited the people at public
meetings against it. He could assure the noble lord he
was extremely mistaken. The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, in his speech on Friday week, spoke of the intelli-
gence of the inhabitants of the metropolis ; and he assured
the noble lord that they at least had sufficientintelligence
to understand subjects that were brought under their
consideration, and were able to see whether they were
likely to have a tax inflicted upon them that was unjust.
It was the conviction, of the people that to double the
house duty would be an injustice, and they were deter-
mined to oppose it. It was therefore, to a great extent,
a matter of indifference whether the present proposition
was carried or not. It the tax were imposed, it would
be only for a short time, as petitions would flow into the
house in numbers similar to those of 1833 and 1834, and
the Government would be obliged to abandon the tax.
He was in favour of direct taxation, so far as it could be
justly carried out ; but, if they made direct taxation un-
just, they would render the system odious, and this, he
maintained, they were now proposing to do, both in re-
ference to the house tax and the income tax. In refer-
ring to the window duty, the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer said that the people of the metropolis urged its
repeal solely on sanitary grounds. He (Sir B. Hall) was
surprised to hear that statement, not only because it was
wholly unfounded, but because the right hon. gentleman
ought to have known that it was so. The right hon. gen-
tleman was at the time one of the loudest declaimers against
the tax. It was one of his earliest propositions in reference
to political subjects that the window tax ought to be re-
pealed. The sanitary question had not been raised till re-
cently, whereas 20 years ago the window tax was con-
sidered a very vexatious impost. According to a return
which he had before him, the alteration of the house
duty in the city of London alone would impose a tax
upon the inhabitants to the amount of 73,1081., whereas
the window tax amounted only to 69,300/., so that there
would be an increase of taxation to the amount of
3,8081. in that portion of the metropolis only. But if
he went further, and compared the amount of window
tax paid in 1851 with the amount of house tax to be paid
in 1853, and then also compared what was paid by the
towns and what by tho counties, he should be able to
show that the proposition was most unjust towards the
inhabitants of towns. The Government might carry
their resolution in committee, but they never would be
able to pass it into a law. He would just state how the
case would stand in St. George's, Hanover-square. The
amount of window duty in 1851 was 47,3501. ; the house
duty in 1853 would be 63,212/.—being an increase of
15,8621., or 25 per cent. The evening of the budget-
speech he (Sir B. Hall) expressed his belief that it was
the commencement of a war of town against country,
and he said so still. There was too much intelligence
among the people, however, for the success of the
scheme ; they would never consent to this taxation, and
and he was quite sure that if they carried their propo-
sition in the house, they would not be able to carry it
into effect in the country. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. DUCKWORTH said he was desirous to accept
the invitation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to ro-
gard the budget as a whole and as one comprehensive
scheme of taxation ; and, looking on it in that light, he
was prepared to give his support to it and to the prin-
ciples it involved. Representing a city deeply interested
in the welfare of our shipping, it was unnecessary for
him to say he approved of all that portion of the budget
which related to that interest, which was admitted by all
'persons, as well as by shipowners, to involve a just re-
laxation of the taxation and burdens which pressed upon
that important class of the community. On the whole,
it did not appear unfair or unreasonable for the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer to impose direct taxation on the
country to the whole extent of the reductions and advan-
tages of his scheme. But a large imperial question was
involved in the vote they were called upon this evening
to give, which would be one expressive of their opinion
as to whether or not the Government were desirous of
treating all classes of the community, as respected taxa-
tion, fairly and justly. Now, though he confessed that
the class among which his constituents ranked would
have been treated unjustly by so large an increase of
taxation as that proposed, yet, as he understood that that
increase of taxation was not affirmed by the resolution
now before the house, but that, on the contrary, it would
be open to them hereafter to discuss the extent to which
this taxation should go, he was prepared to give his vote
in favour of maintaining the Government in the position
which they now occupied, and which ho believed was

the real question upon which he was called on to decide.
He did this from a confidence that the final result would
be that justice would be done to all classes of the com-
munity--to those whom he represented no less than to
those who were represented by other members around
him.

Mr. HUME wished to ask the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer whether the nature of the question before the house
was not entirely altered by his statement that evening,
and whetherthe right hon. gentleman would not withdraw
the resolution, or alter it, so that the house might come
to some clear understanding on the subject, and know
what was the point upon which they were to divide ? He
had no objection to the principle of extending the house
tax, but he opposed the course now proposed, because no
case had, in his opinion, been made out to show that
any addition to the taxation of the country was necessary.
It was absolutely necessary that they should have some
explanation upon the point he had suggested. It would
puzzle any man out of the house, and it puzzled him in
the house, to know what was the subject of debate. He
would now state what he thought of the budget. The right
hon. gentleman had taken a bold course ; he (Mr. Hume)
wished, in some respects, he had taken o. more judicious one.
The declaration of the right hen. gentleman, that this was
to be a free trade budget, that he had put to rest for
ever the vexed question of class politics, appeared to him
(Mr. Hume) a matter of great importance, if he could only

perceive its realization ; but the financial statement of the
Government was really at variance with that declaration.
The right hon. gentleman deserved the thanks of the coun-
try for the manner in which he had dealt with the griev-
ances affecting the shipping interest. (Hear, hear.) From
the year 1823 down to the present time he (Mr. Hume) had
never ceased to point out the injustice done to the mercan-
tile marine of this country by existing legislation, and the
right hon. gentleman had now laid down principles regard-
ing that interest which he trusted he would carry out, to
his own credit and to the advantage of the country. With
regard to the question of salvage, perhaps the house were
not aware that both the French and the American Govern-
ments had ordered that no ships belonging to the navies of
those two countries should ever call for one single shilling
for assistance rendered to merchant ships, and the captains
in those services were directed to afford assistance, not only
to their own mercantile marine, but to that of other na-
tions. He thanked the right hon. gentleman for the altera-
tion he had effected here. As to passing tolls, these had
been a species of robbery from the shipowner—(hear)—
and the right hon. gentleman was also entitled to the
thanks of the house for the alteration he proposed with re-
gard to them. Pilotage was another question of vast im-
portance. It was extraordinary that this country should
have no fixed rules for the government of the mercantile
marine in this particular, and he hoped now that the
whole subject would be placed upon a fair, full, and equi-
table footing. (Hear.) With regard to the enlistment of
merchant sailors at sea in her Majesty's vessels, he had
actually known ships lost in consequence of being thus
abandoned by a portion of their crew, and an alteration in
the existing system had therefore been imperatively called
for. If there was anything more important than this, it
was that the manning clause should be immediately re-
pealed, and that shipowners should have the power of
taking foreign seamen on board. (Hear, hear.) He would
never be satisfied until ships were free from lighthouse dues
and all other special duties whatever. (Hear, hear.) He
wanted to see ships come in and out of harbour free from
taxation, and then, indeed, we should have facility of
communication. Looking to the competition which ex-
isted, and to the danger there was of losing our coasting
trade altogether, our shipping should be entirely free. Why
should the mercantile navy solely pay for the lights
which the Royal navy equally used The mercantile navy
had franked the Queen's ships from the maintenance of all
lights and beacons, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer
had done a great act of justice in relieving the merchant
service from some of their burdens. The arrangement with
regard to refining sugar in bond was beneficial to the colonies,
and was no less so to this country. He only wished the
right hon. gentleman would contrive some means for con-
veying labour to the colonies ; otherwise they would never
be able to pay the interest upon loans. Having been ruined
by imperial legislation, they ought to be considered. The
hon. member for Cambridgeshire (Mr. Ball) said that free
trade ought to be carried out. Yet 233 manufactured
articles still bore protective duties, and about 42 articles
connected with agriculture. Why did not the Chancellor
of the Exchequer abolish these protective duties ? He need
not then have added to the taxation of the country at all.
The abolition of half the malt tax was not enough. It
ought to be abolished altogether. (Hear, hear.) The public
might then get rid of the monopoly of the brewer, if the
licensing system were also abolished. (Cheers.) He
should be prepared to show at some other time that,
socially, morally, and physically, it was necessary to
bring back the people from the use of ardent spirits,
to which they had been driven by the high price of
malt. These 233 articles only produced 434,0001. The
duty on cheese only brought 5,0001. to the revenue.
and that upon butter 158,000/. If the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had cleared off all these duties it would have
been a great honour to him, and would have been received
with acclamations by the country. (Cheers.) The course
taken by the right hon. gentleman upon the income tax
was highly consistent with the evidence taken before the
Income Tax Committee. He thought it a bold step for the
Chancellor of the Exchequer to establish a distinction be-
tween fixed and precarious incomes, because he was opposed
by every one else. (A laugh.) Two Chancellors of the
Exchequer were prepared to vote against him, as well as
the right hon. gentleman who represented the University
of Oxford. But he was confident the right hon. gentleman
mot the common sense of the whole community—(cheers)—
and, happen what would, he was confident that this dis-
tinction must obtain and become established, with the
greatest possible benefit to the country, because it would
enable direct taxation to ibe established. The principle
was that all men should pay according to their revenue,
(261.424 t vflyeted6t reolakelbaith 'Tar afutiniy
whatever. No less than sixty-seven per cent. of the in-
come of the country was raised by the two items of Cus-
toms and Excise, the greater proportion of which was paid
by the industrious classes. Industry had thus paid
double and treble the amount contributed by property.
Land contributed only 1,750,0001. to the property
tax, while professional incomes and trades contri-
buted 3,500,0001. A tax on property of 5 per cont.
would enable us to dispense with the assessed taxes and the
Excise. In 1814-15 the land of England was valued at
34,500,0001.; it then bore 64 per cent. of the whole pro-
perty tax. In 1848 the land paid 30 per cent. less than in
1814. He recommended the right hon. gentleman to ex-
empt no real property, however small the amount ; nothing
should save it. With reference to the house tax, ho con-
sidered it to be one of the worst taxes that could be col-
lected. If anything were a reflection upon the rich and
wealthy of this country, it was the wretched hovels with
which the kingdom abounded. A tax which produced
that result could not be vindicated, and he had no hesita-
tion in denouncing it as a most unjust and unequal tax. It
was called a direct tax ; but, if they wanted to raise a di-
rect tax, let them add 1 per cent. to the property tax, and
strike off the existing impost upon houses, and they would
receive more by that additional 1 per cent. than by doub-
ling or trebling the house tax. He reminded hon. gentle-
men opposite that the land of England would be nothing
without its commerce, and, looking to England as a great
manufacturing and commercial country, he was anxious to
simplify taxation by 'freeing industry and labour, and
raising a third or a fourth of the taxation of the country
by direct means. (Hear, hear.) In conclusion, the hon.
member was understood to say that he should vote against
any increase of taxation, and against applying the 400,0001.
repayment of loans for public works to the general expen-
diture.

Sir E. DERING should support the modification of the
income tax, as just in itself, and as in accordance with the
feelings of the people. He deprecated the tone in which
the alteration of the malt and house duties had been dis-
cussed, and denied that the former could be regarded by
the agriculturists as any compensation for burdens to which
they had been unjustly subjected, nor did he believe that
much benefit could be derived from it except by the barley
grower. But it was a step towards the enormous benefit
which would be derived from total abolition, which also
was the only reasonable mode of dealing with the hop duty.
As regarded the house tax, it had been stated by Sir C.
Wood that the increase would fall upon those who had
hitherto been all but exempt from direct taxation. See-
ing no justification for this exemption, he should support
the additional impost, which, however, might perhaps be
modified in committee. He wished a different proposition
as to Ireland, and one more in accordance with the princi-
ples of public credit.
Sir J. GRAHAM then rose, along with several other
members. For a moment it was doubtful who had posses-
sion of the floor, and the cries for the right hon. baronet
became loud and general. The chairman having called
upon him, he said—l cannot, sir, proceed to address you
without saying that I shall endeavour to follow the ex-
ample of the hon. baronet the member for Kent, both in
the tone and manner of addressing you. I am extremely
obliged to you, sir, for calling upon me. lam never able
to address the house with that perspicuity and self-posses.
sion which I should desire ; but, having listened most at-
tentively to this protracted discussion, I am bound to say
that the more I have listened, the more I have become be-
wildered with the confusion of the debate. (Hear.) I
have listened to my hon. friend the member for Montrose
(Mr. Hume) with great attention, and I am sorry to say,
that I cannot understand the view which he is disposed to
take on this occasion. (Laughter.) He says he is a great
friend to direct taxation ; and yet, he says he altogether
objects to the house tax ; and objecting to the house tax,
he says he is very willing to diminish the exemptions of
the house tax, and bring the limit down from 20/. to 10/.
Again, my hon. friend says that he has the greatest possi-
ble regard for public credit, and an earnest desire to main-
tain the revenue of the country in a prosperous condition,
and yet that he is willing to put an end to the duties from
the customs and excise; that he would vote for the total re-
peal of the malt tax, and also for the total repeal of the as-
sessed taxes, and yet that his moderate views of direct
taxation would lead him to impose only an additional duty
of 1 per cent. on property and income, which he thought
world be amply sufficient to make up the deficiency.
(Laughter.) Now, in my opinion, it is a difficult matter to
discuss one budget, especially one so large and ample as
that which the Chancellor of the Exchequer has brought
before us ; but, to add to the difficulty, my hon. friend the
member for Montrose has brought forward another budget,
including a scheme for capitalising income, and dealing with
the income tax on a principle entirely different from that of
the Government. But, again, I thought that we were to dis-
cuss the whole budget on the present occasion. Up to this
evening I was distinctly under the impression that that was
the issue which we were called upon to try ; but, in conse-
quence of a question which was put by the hon. and gallant
member for Westminster (Sir D. L. Evans) in the early
part of the evening, it appeared to mo that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer was inclined more or less to change the
issue. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The question im-
mediately before us, I distinctly understood, was this,—
Shall we, or shall we not, as proposed in the present
budget, consent to a proposition for doubling the house
tax, and reducing the exemptions from 20/. to 10/. ? But,
from the answer which was given to the question of the
hon. and gallant member for Westminster, it appeared to
me, unless I misunderstood the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
that the right hon. gentleman wished to convey to the
house that it was of no importance whether'we agreed with
ths Government with reference to tlio doubling of the