The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-04 00:00:00

The Committee three divided, when there appeared--,
For the vote ... ... ••• ••• 58
Against it... ... ... ~, ... 45
Majority for the vote ... ... ... —l3
The vote was then agreed to.
A vote of 221 361/. having been proposed for the ex-
pense of ,he Poet. -law C )mmissien,
Se-H. VERNEY said he believed there must be some-
thing redically wrong in our mode of dealing with the
poor. There were in England 6,000,000 of acres of land
wholly uncultivated, and yet we crowded able-bodied la-
bourers in poor-houses, or compelled them to seek ern'
ployment in foreign lands. He believed that cur present
law of settlement required careiul revision.
Sir J. TROLLOPE said that the subject of the law of
settlement had engaged a considerable portion of the at-
tention of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Baines) who bad
preceded him in his present office, and of his own atten-
tion during the short period he had held that office, and
he hoped that if the same duties should continue to de-
volve upon him, he should be able in the course of the
ensuing session to introduce a measure for regulating
the law of settlement, which would be satisfactory to the
country and beneficial to the labouring classes.—(Hear'
hear.) He was aware that our labourers required to b:
allowed a more expansive opening for their exertil
than that which they at present possessed. Be would
not, therefore, further take up, unnecessarily, the time
of the Committee.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that he knew of no depart.
ment which, year after year. increased in the same pro:
portion as the poor-law. In 1844 the whole charge
was 49 700/. for England and Ireland; in 1847 the
amount reached 182,2001.; last year it was 2.11,5nn'a
and in the present year it reached 221,360/. lie did
not mean to charge the Right Honourable Gentleman
opposite with this increase—which nearly altogether
took place in Ireland—but certainly it required exPi li.
nation.—(Herr, hear.)
Sir J. TROLLOPE explained that the increase in
Present year, as regarded Ireland, was owing to the •aa
dicel Charities Act, passed in the last session.
Mr. BAINES should say that the increase as regarclea,
the English staff was only 600/., or 2004 per Year ads
ditioual to each of three poor-law inspectors, wbo wf
recommended by him to such increase of salary, 65 being,oy
in every way entitled to it.—(Hear.) He hoped. 111„7,0,
measure that might be brought in by the Right D'o,
Baronet opposite (Sir J. Trollope), the law of P!red
chial settlement would not be overlooked, as it exec a
a very great and baneful influence on the social and
moral character of the people. He (Mr. Baines) a.°o
be happy to afford every information and assistance'.
Lord NAAS assured the Committee that it was °II.'
to the Medical Charities Act of last session that the in
crease occurred in reference to Ireland.
gie W. teONIEUVILLE wished it to be un gel
eerst 5
that the estimate for Ireland should be locked 11P°11 8
for a year arid a Quarter instead of a year. tbe
Mr. BINDLE) hoped the Committee would Passe" d
item, seeing that the Bank of of England had refine
payment of a cheque from the poor-lit w board, On
the ground of there being no assets.—(Laughter.) vote
After a few words from Mr. WILLIAMS, the
was agreed to.
seine' oci
„c
The votes of 36.4394, expenses of the se''''srds,
11.668/., expenses of the department of public re°—
were agreed to.
On the vote of 15 190/. to defray the salaries and 0'
penses of the inspectors of factories and mines, ,bere
Mr. HINDLEY called attention to the fact that ' Dot
were several districts in which the factory law Was
carried out.
01'
Mr. WALPOLE stated that, in consequence of 'nip.
ligence received, he had given instructions to the 1'
spectors to have as much information as possible .`" to
lected, with a view to have the law fully carried 1°
effect. bad
Mr. BRIGHT hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman erg
not given instructions to the factory inspectors to Tor
the law more rigidly than at present. He eouldtore
testimony to the industry of some of those ingPe" op
who left their gigs in bye places, and stealthilyeo,
preached the factories to see if they could surprise tugs
and afterwards have them mulcted in a court of ls''d be
had beard of one inspector, the son of a bishop,a,n 'tsti
believed, the brother of an ex-Home Secretarkr:eset,
a race with two factory girls.—(Laughter.) lec„o3o°
the girls arrived first at the factory, and gave ir—
lion that he was coming.—(Laughter.) eat
Mr. WALPOLE said the intention of the Governrlitig
was to see the law duly carried into effect, and 13" dlthe
more. Ire distant localities the law was evaded, Of the
mills were worked over time, to the detriment 0 her
children engaged, and to the unfair competition 0' their
millowners. When inspectors were sent down,,ess,
arrival by the train was duly notified at the fa°""iglit
and instantly the parties removed everything thalteas
have the appearance of being contrary to law, and No(
the Act was evaded. Now, it was to amend that 016
things that her Majesty's Ministers were anxious. et.
Mr. IIINDLEY called attention to the clause reap set
ing accidents, which should be altered, as at Pre iog
parties were compelled by the advice of pettifogg
attorneys to go into the superior courts. 246°'
Sir J. TYRELL hoped the Hon. Member for the
chester (Mr. Bright) would study the report en
subject of factory accidents. via°
Mr. BRIGHT said the Hon. Baronet was not a to
of the nature of the report. The clause referring all
accidents was a very annoying one; and one which
a,tered.
parties were unanimous in thinkieg should be l
_jag
There were more accidents occurred in connexionewoe
carts and waggons than arose from machine operatic
_P..
and he doubted not the Hun. Baronet would disc% ri,:i
much, when machinery was introduced in Essex for
agriculturalßpuErE
L hoped,osfs'
en
in order to report the arrival of the inspector.—(
i
introduced in E.sex, the railwayswraouseldhinnoertybeshwoautlcdl63:l
The vo was thn agreed .
On theta vote of ti
.700/. toto defray the expelisos wild
salaries of certain officers in Scotland, i/f
Mr. W. WILLIAMS called for some explanation 6
the vote. He found the Queen's clockmaker, the Queen
plate to be run for at Edinburgh, the Queen's platen
platebe ru nforfotrh
ca Royalthe Caledonian
Archers.H u nt, andNo
wt,loseuirseneilyeet_b:e
inie ' Tel oe t ol
LI Scotland. ngHlaendaltofuoludndniont btheetanxexedt fvorotheolr,sse7-4r5i.c7130.!,;
fifteen plates for horse- racing in Ireland, to which
intended objectieg, though Ireland was poorer thari
Scotland.
r
Colonel SIBTHORP supported the vote. Fie ,co
01
ceived it calculated to promote the improved breeu
of
horses; and racing also contributed to the amusesner9
the people.
The vete was then agreed to.
On the vote ot 6,464/ to defray the salaries of ow;4oerl
of the Lord Lieutenant's household in Ireland,
Mr. WILLIAMS objected. He found 2754 for 1.::
lanes for two gentlemen at large, and 2001 for the 01:a
ter of the horse. Such stuff as that should be scOah'ie
in the case of a mere Lord Lieutenant; and was allotoLo
only in the case of her Majesty, who was as much C2ll'
gin
asi
3ontaifnr:mxiolnoonrbeareugleg. Mr. Ireland
rsleansilytn:li
Tn(AaolehAmpluMaiepNtpul 'l
ollhsosFsoeLof temo(lTdt:EfheßiOt:ntnohDgNtgalai
;If
fetsanbhaoat
nnyunieidrdetsf.sotiutordffihroofe.
treeprhlieoepaeridetrei
eoosih_faptocall
irLetwdesn.ooehLrf.brerdealru(etircLuitezii
vagabonds
ineaaigagtnuirodtoa.he)nbtown.
ouaienstniresdnetess, i nf:fit;„ abl;
blacklegs of every class and kind collectedg—v"r,esbne'd
come fearfully numerous, and required a vigilse` that
constant looking atter.—(Hear.) He complained ' ja
there was no control over the cigar and other shoPs,, et
which a great deal of demoralizetion was going ?Led
that metropolis, and he thought they
under the control of the police.
est tbe
Sir DE LACY EVANS was disposed to sliPP,'n'i.sie
present state observations of the Hon. Gentleman from the in.— ife
btalieoanttt
atehrtexyhir
p:acetocchuto eal
udddk
Righti
br
tHeehaaoaste:nthuk. reached
nn him.utph.
e setodau t ought
it would
of t o
ebii
recall
1
the attention of the Government, although it could bares
a se
Sir W. JOLLIFFE, in the absence of the El°„r„iber
cthreaFriend the
hiraodn.haadnhdisGaatllteanntti.o: ?fe!
to the subject, and
was most anxious to devise sh° go
means to remedy this evil, which had t d dso renc'es
militate a •en e
of t
against the happiness and
prosperitY
working clamed,
Mr. WILLIAMS said it be impossible t° Jess
terfere woull impos 0100
terfere with b t• •
e erns' among the working-classes, n ad
they
and hor j
put it down amongthe higher
classes, a leo
the matter would meet with attention, so that these I
might nut appear in the estimates in future years.
Altar some conversation the vote was agreed ,10. ,of
The next vote was 22,5631., to defray the expenses
the Chief St cretary's office in Ireland. e all
Mr. WILLIAMS did not see the necessity 1 e °,„,' et,
these officers, and thought some reduction ought 1.
made. 1013
Lord NAAS said considerable reductions bad toy
place in that department within the last few years.
The vote was then agreed, as was also. 0°
6 0511, for the office of Paymaster of Civil Sell
in Irelstid.
metOn for the Beard of Public Works in Irel sa
_4Ol
On the vote for 32.0001., for foreign and other ley'
service. a 1a
Colonel SIBTHORP said he had always objected, jll
this grant, as no explanation was given of the nsean,;oo
which it was expended. He always had, and a"'
would protect against such humbug of the public. bad
Mr. MACGREGOR said, some of the moneY eae-
passed thrones his hands, and ho denied that it wa" 1'
•
, f
properly disposed of. It was PEn
Ptl
oyed in obtainineeo,
formation most important to the commerce and nalloe-
-1 Lion of the country, which could not otherwise be 01
tamed. He had obtained that information at the led to
n
possible rate.—(Laughter.) If the Committee called iti
mind that a million and a half was formerly exPe,de, ei,
France., and that the Governments of Austria, Lr—sil.s
and even the United States sent large sums tor se°,oo
he
service,
did not think the sum of 32,0001. was
large for the British Government. Wag
Sir. G. PECHELL contended that the public
to
entitled to some explanation as to the disposal of t,3
money; they must otherwise look with suspicion LIP
this vote.
vv id it
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER se
~,sd
would be strange if the Government should be Ow%
haraetes
upon to declare what was in its very name and c I be
secret. If the information was to be
given
it
wcruesdola-
no longer secret, and unless the House came to a
t see"
that there should be no longer a vote for secre
it,
_t
vice and that the Government should tell the public n,,De
the money was appropriated for, the suggestioisn muchl
Hon. Baronet could not be adopted. He agreed i lass
Member for G ,
of what had been stated by the Hon.
wers c.,`
gow. No one could deny that all the first-rate po
f voteu
Europe expended quadruple or quintuple the amount goo.
by this country. The vote was n0w.32,000/. Someobliged
when they were „n
Members might recollect the time
be fertl's
to vote ts considerably larger sum for t for tee
was •
secret service alone. The present sum
roportion
whole of the secret service, and a great p.___,...diug
of it was for services rendered many years agoo,pautaivii
pensions to widows and relatives of persons 0 ,u

taaa.
(1,t6..Q1