The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-22 00:00:00

delicate morality, and which allowed a wide scope to
conscience in matters of loyalty and feeling to this
country. But alter all, the answer woull be that such
was part and parcel of the education of all Roman Ca-
tholic priests. filer Majesty's Ministers consented, when
they made the grant, to the continuance of these books
as class-books. The question, therefore, resolved itself
into this, that Ministers were now pledged to the very
system of education which prevailed at Maynooth,
(Hear.) Because, when they made the grant they
did so with their eyes open; and the course of study was
now the same as previously.—(Hear, hear.) Such being
the case, to come forward now with an investigation ap-
peared to him—he did not mean it offensively—like
sneaking out of the question for the purpose of avoiding
it. If there was a feeling on the question at all, it was
as regarded the grant. That was the question that agi-
tated the country, and which, therefore, should be consi-
dered. Half measures would never succeed. As every
constitutional matter in this country was a thing of com-
promise, so also should the question of the endowment of
Maynooth College be considered as a question of com-
promise. Therefore, the Noble Earl opposite in saying it
was not his intention to alter his policy towards Maynooth,
and permitting the appointment of a Committee to inves-
tigate the course of education in that college at the same
time, was doing one thing in that House and undoing it
ain the other. It was decidedly a course of compromise,
and compromise of that description was very unworthy
'and unbecoming.
The Earl of DERBY should repeat liiirdeclaration
:thatit was not the intention of. her Majesty Govern-
-went at present to alter or interfere with the grant.
`However, he did not wish to be understood as saying
that, whatever might be the result of inquiry, the Go-
vernment would not effect change or alteration. He did
not state that, whatever the result of inquiry as to the
system of education practised at Maynooth, or the ap-
iplication of the funds granted by Parliament for the sup-
-port of that system—he did not say that such disclosures
'would not alter the policy of her Majesty's Government
with regard to the grant.—(Hear, hear.) Neither could
he (the Earl of Derby) adopt the expression of the
Noble Baron opposite, that if, in the education of Roman
Catholie priests, doctrines were inculcated subversive of
loyalty or inconsistent with morality, it was not a matter
for the Crown or Parliament to interfere with.—(Hear,
hear.) He (the Earl of Derby) admitted that in these
points the Noble Baron opposite (Lord Beaumont) was
better informed than himself; and, therefore, if he should
find that the Noble Baron had given a more correct re-
presentation of these matters than he (the Earl of Derby)
was heretofore disposed to entertain, he should say it
would have a very material effect in altering his views
with regard to the policy and the principles of the grant
in question.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord BEAUMONT explained. He never asserted
that the doctrines taught at Maynooth were subversive
of loyalty or morality. He said there were class•books
from which passages might be extracted not favourable
to loyalty or morality. But then these passages should
be read with others that followed them. Surely in the
Protestant Church. the: persons educated for the clergy
did not confine their reading to one side of the question.
The Bishop of OXFORD should say there were no
books read by the clergy of the Church of England
having a tendency to subvert loyalty or destroy mora-
lity.—(Bear, hear.)
The Earl of WINCHILSEA said that petitions
signed by some 1,500,000 persons against the Maynooth
grant had been adopted by tho people of this country;
and therefore it was absolutely necessary that an inves-
tigation into the system of education should take place.
So convinced was ho (the Earl of Winchilsea) of the
nature of the doctrines inculcated at that college that
he would not hesitate to place on the Committee of in-
quiry members of the Church of Rome. He was in a
position to satisfy their Lordships that if this inquiry
were gone into, Maynooth would be found to be the
Jesuitical college in Europe. Every principle of loyalty
and morality was subverted there; and to its teaching
relight be attributed the wretched condition of the people
f Ireland. There shortly would occur an opportunity
.o
for the people of this country to speak out; and, if he
was not much mistaken the Protestant feeling of this
great and mighty empire, the bulwark of civil and reli-
gious liberty, could be expressed in a manner and with
a vigour that no man could misunderstand. If the
present Parliament should refuse inquiry, he was pre-
pared to say that the next Parliament would go further,
and demand something more than inquiry.—(Hear.)
Earl FITZ WILLIAM deprecated the course taken by
his Noble Friend (the Marquis of Breadalbane), which,
he thought, would bo productive only'of ill-feeling. His
object in rising was to express the satisfaction he felt at
the answer of the Noble Earl the First Minister of the
Crown to the question put to him in reference to this
grant. Notwithstanding what had been said about the
course which the next Parliament would pursue in re-
ference to this grant, ho hoped the opinions of the Noble
Earl (Earl of Darby) would remain unchanged. Ho
(the Earl of Fitzwilliam) had ao fear of the people
being converted by Rowish priests; but ho had fears
that the Protestant aristocracy would be converted by
Romanising clergy of the Protestant Church.
The Earl of DERBY observed that there was no
question before the House, inasmuch as the question put
had been answered by him.—(Cries of "The petitions.")
The Earl of WICKLOW was perfectly satisfied with
'the answer which the Noble Earl at the head of the Go-
vernment bad given on this as well as on two previous
occasions.—(Bear, hear.) No Minister could be ex-
pected to say. more than that he had no present inten-
tion of doing a thing.—(Hear.) It was obviously im-
possible to foresee what circumstances might occur, and
it would be imprudent and unwise to give any pledge
for the future. It was certain, however, that other per-
sons connected with the Noble Earl did not speak as
plainly as he did, and one of hie colleagues had consented
to a motion which, from the confession of its author,
was directed against the existence of the institution. It
pained him to make this observation, because he wished
wall to the Noble Earl's Government, and desired to see
it well placed in the country. The equivocal conduct to
which he adverted gave rise to an opinion that the Go-
vernment was desirous of availing itself of the popular
clamour existing on the subject of Maynooth for the
purpose of influencing the elections about to take
place.—(Hear.) The conduct of the Government in the
other House in assenting to the proposed inquiry was
very suspicious. That at present a strong feeling pre-
vailed against Roman Catholics in Great Britain, and
particularly in the northern part of the island, was, un-
fortunately, too true, and it was attributable to Lord J.
Russell's letter to the Bishop of Durham, and to the
Act of Parliament founded on it. The author of that
letter and the Government which proposed that Act of
Parliament were responsible for the present state of
affairs.—(Hear, hear.)
No
one could dispute the right
of the Legislature to inquire into the state of education
at the college, but there was a moral obligation on Par-
liament not to lay a finger on the grant. It should be
remembered that Ireland was a Catholic country, con-
tributing her fair proportion to the revenue, and, there
being an endowed church for a minority of the people,
it was the duty of the Legislature to provide the means
for educating the priests of the majority.
Earl GREY concurred in the opinion expressed by
the Noble Earl who spoke last, that an Administration
was not called upon to speak for more than its present
intentions, and should decline to pledge itself as to the
conduct it would pursue in circumstances not yet arisen;
and if he understood the answer given by the Noble
Earl at the head of the Government that evening in the
same sense as that in which it was received by other
Noble Lords, be would be as satisfied with it as they ap-
peared to be. Unfortunately, however, he did not un-
derstand the
Noble Earl to say that no change of cir-
cumstances had yet taken place which could induce him
to abandon the opinions which he expressed on this sub-
ject in 1845, when a Member of Sir R. Peel's Government.
When, on a former evening, he asked the Noble
Ea r 1
r
whether he adhered to the opinions expressed by him in
1845, the Noble Earl denied his right to put that question
Then, again, the Noble Earl
to him. was particularly
careful in having his words correctly quoted, and drew
hairbreadth distinctions between the phrases having
no intention to do a thing at presenj These
," and
a baying no present intention to do the thina
circumstances caused doubt as to the real int.
the Government, and the feeling of uncertainty was
entionsof
in-
creased when it was found that persons holding offithe greatest importance connected with the ces
of
Administra-
tion
made election speeches and issued placards
they distinctly pledged themselves to vote for , in
thewhich
repeal
of the Maynooth grant. All these circumstances created
a suspicion as to the intentions of the Government,
e
which it behoved the Noble Earl, for h.
e own honour
and for the credit of tho representative
of l
principle of Go-
vernment and the Constitutionthe country, to
remove. A man of the high honour
and feeling
which should actuate a British statesman'would not
consent to shelter his real intentions
under equivocatiea
and subterfuge. When they were told that sue Roman
Catholic religion was so false, and that its priests
were se disloyal, what must the conclusion be, but
that one-third of her Majesty's subjects could never
hope to be placed uon an equality with the
rest of the
comusunity, in which case they must necessa-
rily be disaffected? Would it not then appear to the
Roman Catholics to be their dut toendow-
menty prevent any
of the Protestant Church, and thus there would bo
an end to religious peace in that country? What would
be the effect upon the Church establishment in Ireland?
He had had intrusted to him a petition from an English
town, not only against the grant to Maynooth, but pray-
ing that all religious grants in Ireland should be put an
end to. This was the necessary conclusion to which
Parliament would be led if the grant to Maynooth were
to be withdrawn. For himself, ho thought that every
Christian church taught doctrines the greater part of
which were true and beneficial to the people, and he
wished that each sect might continue to receive the same
grants as hitherto. He was disappointed not tr,
'Jaye
heard from the Noble Earl (Derby) a more distinct de-
claration on the part of the Government whether they ton.
hered or not to the policy of which the chief Member of
Administration was the principal the present
advocate
in 1845.
The Duke of ARGYLL held that Parliament had
perfect right to inquire into the system education pur-
sued f d •
on pur-
sued in the College of Maynooth, and the consequences
which had arisen from its endowment. In 1845 Lord J.
Russell, cn the second reading of the Maynooth Bill, dis-
tinctly asserted that, if it should be f
Ro-
man Catholic clergy were teachers found that the h
of rebellion, no valid
compact could be pleadeta w
made, and why the greet isho
ullinquiry should not be
not be withdrawn. But
the grounds upon which thisgrant was opposed were of
a religious character, and if Parliament adopted this
principle it would not stop at Maynooth. They could
not withdraw this grant without withdrawing all other
grants to religious bodies. lie
objected to the tone in
which this question had been discussed, and the circum-
stances under which it had been brought forward. If
the grant wore now to be voted to Maynooth for the
first time, he would on no account support it, but ho ss.w
great danger to the peace of the empire in laying down
principles in regard to one sect which did not apply to
the other religious sects of the empire.
The Aleaquis of CLANRICARDE said it appeared