The Sun.
London, England, 1864-05-07 00:00:00

riPERIAL PARLWMT

HOUSE OF LORDS—Last Evening,
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.

DENMARK.
The Earl of C.ARN ARV ON gave notice that on Mon-
day next he should call the attention of the house to the
present state of the Danish question.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The following bills were read a second time :—Hertford
Gas—Chichester Harbour Embankment--North Eastern
Railway (York and Doncaster Branch)—Chichester and
Midhurat Railway—Edgware, Highgate, and London
Railway—and Watford and Edgware Railway.
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Port Glasgow Harbour—Redruth and Falmouth Junction
Railway—Grand Western Canal and Bristol and Exeter
Railway—lndependent Gas Company—Waterford and
Limerick, Limerick and Foyness, and Rathkeale and New-
castle Junction Railway—Birmingham and Staffordshire
Gas—South Yorkshire Railway—London, Brighton, and
South Coast Railway (Kemp Town Station)—and Lanca-
shire and Yorkshire (additional powers).
DEBTOR AND CREDITOR.
The LO RD CHANCELLOR called attention to the
state of the law of debtor and creditor as affecting the poorer
classes ; and presented a bill for the limitation of actions
and process for small debts, and to amend the acts
relating to the county courts, and to confer on
such courts a limited jurisdiction in equity. The
noble and learned lord said the subject was one of the
greatest importance, because as many as 17,979 persons
had been committed to prison by the act giving the power
of imprisonment to county court judges. Some of those
persons so sent to prison had been deprived of personal
liberty for the most insignificant crimes, as there were cases in
which persons had been imprisoned for the non-payment of
such sums as Is. Id., 3s. 10d., Is. 6d., 2s. 9d., and in one
case a man had suffered several days' imprisonment
for default of payment of ninepence. The sum total of
the amounts for these committals did not amount
to more than £62,438, and no doubt could be entertained
on the circumstance, because the calculations had been
made upon returns made to Parliament, His lordship was
of opinion that a creditor was not justified in imprisoning a
debtor to the injury of society. To come to a right
decision on the case it was necessary to inquire
whether tae creditor gave credit under circum-
stances which justified and required him to imprison his
debtor ; to inquire whether the creditor could say, " I have
a right to this remedy on behalf of society, in order that I
may be enabled to recover my debt." The present law was
especially hard upon the labourer, because it in effect mort-
gaged the entire earnings of the debtor to the merciless
creditor for an indefinite time, without the possibility or
hope of redemption. He begged their lordships, but for one
instant, to draw a comparison between the law as respected
bankruptcy and that dispensed in county courts. In the
one, on the surrender of his goo's, a bankrupt gets
a discharge from all his liabilities, whilst in the county
court the poor creditor gets an order which hangs about
his neck for years, and, in fact, from which he never, or
seldom, liberates himself. The consequences of the county
court system had become the very parent of the evil they
were called upon to check. Small shop-keepers and pedlars
tempted the improvident, and, he must add, dissipated
poor. Credit being easily obtained, debts for things not
actually necessaries was soon contracted, and on the first
failure of payment resource is had to the county courts. In
many cases goods are supplied by persons without the
knowledge of the husband, as the pedlar generally calls
when the husband is at work. As long as he keeps so she
makes her payments to the pedlar, but when work fails
the pedlar perseveres for his money ; the wife is unable to
pay, and summonses by the hundreds are taken out by
these sort of people, and thus a great deal of misery is oc-
casioned, in addition to which, in many cases, more than
three times the value of the article was charged.
Although the husband had no knowledge of the debt, he is
cited to the County Court, and there he is ordered to pay the
amount for which he never rendered himself liable. It had
been said that this system of credit was necessary, and
advantageous to the provident poor, but he denied that
such was the case. On the contrary, he thought that if it
was altogether put an end to, it would lead to a more pru-
dent, careful, and provident state of things. (Hear, hear.)
The bill he held in his hand, in the first place, would give
power to the judge to take into consideration the whole of
the circumstances of the debt. He thought it was
not justifiable to retain the present power of impri-
sonment for debt, on the ground that it enabled the
poor man to obtain credit in seasons of distress. He be-
lieved that this was in the long run no gain to the poor man,
for he was much more likely to be encouraged in habits of
care and forethought by a system under which he could not
gain credit. He proposed, therefore, to abrogate entirely
that part of the present law which enabled a county court
judge to commit a debtor to prison merely because he was
satisfied of his power to pay, It was necessary, however,
to retain some principles of criminal legislation in this part
of our law, and he therefore proposed that for debts con-
tracted by fraud, false pretences, or breach of trust, the
debtor should be subjected to one term of imprisonment, and
he intended that this imprisonment should, under all cir-
cumstances, be a reality. He should also provide that
whenever a man was brought before a county court judge,
the judge (if satisfied that he had no means of paying his
debts, and was not likely to have within a reasonable time)
should call before himself all the creditors of the debtor, and
ascertain what load could with propriety be laid on his
shoulders. That sum would be divided amongst the credi-
tot s, and the fiebtor would then be released frum his liabi-
lities. That was the only way in which they could place a
poor man who had become involved in debt in a position
corresponding to that in which a person in a superior posi-
tion of life was p 1 ced by the operation of the bankrupt or
insolvent laws. One clause in this bill would prevent
any score for intoxicating drinks consumed in a public -
house from being sued for in a county court ; while another
would limit the period within which small debts could be
sued for or judgments enforced in the count) courts, to one
year after the debt was contracted or the judgment reco-
vered. The second part of his bill invested the county
courts with a summary equitable jurisdiction, which he
trusted would be exercised, and speedily, without a great
amount of form, and without much expense ; and would
thus enable the poor man to obtain I he same remedies which
those who were richer obtained from the Court of Chancery.
His lordship concluded by emphatically and earnestly com-
mending his measure to the attention of the house, and
expressing his hope that it would tend to the benefit of the
labouring classes.
Lord CRANWORTH entirely concurred in the desira-
bility of getting rid of the power of imprisonment by county
courts as far as was possible.
The bill was then read a first time.
NAVAL AND VICTUALLING STORES BILL,
This bill was read a second time.
The house then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—Last Evening.
The SPEAKER took the chair at,l o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Kilkenny Cathedral, Economy Fend Bill, and the
Scottish Central Railway (Stations, Sce.) Bill were read a
third time and passed.
THE CIVIL WAR IN AMERICA.,

Mr. MARSH, in the absence of Mr. Lindsay, gave no-
tice that ho would move a resolution to the effect that it
was the duty of this house to consider what would be the
effect of the continuance of the civil war in America on this
country.
EMIGRATION FROM IRELAND TO AMERICA.
Mr. SCULLY asked the Secretary of State for the
Home Department whether his attention had been directed
to the proposed Act of American Congress providing for the
reduction of tonnage dues on immigrant vessels, and for the
appointment of a
Government Commissioner of Immigra-
tion, who shall be empowered to contract for the importa-
tion'of immigrants, and for their transmission into the inland
districts of the United States : and, whether it was the in-
tention of the present Government to adopt any measures
either towards diverting into some of her Majesty's
colonies an increased and increasing emigration from Ire-
land, or towards arresting that emigration, by providing
industrial employment at home, or by reducing exorbitant
taxation, or by improving land laws, or by abolishing
the
religious distinctions, or by conceding. to Irishmen some
participation in the government of their own country, or
otherwise ?
Sir G. GREY said that his attention had been called to
the subject which formed the first portion of the hon. mem-
ber's question, and there could be no doubt that emigration
from Ireland to America was going on very extensively,
but it was the result of superior wages offered'
in that country than were received at home, in the same
way that Irishmen were induced to come to England,
because they received better remuneration for their la-
bour than they did from Irish employers. With regard to
the other part of the question, it was obvious that Govern-
ment could not take auy active measure in providing in-
dustrial occupation for the agricultutal portion of the
Irish population at house ; and, in reference to religion,
Irishmen enjoyed as much liberty as any other portion 6:
the United Kingdom-
THE RAILWAY FROM HALIFAX TO QUEBEC.
Mr. AYR CON asked the Secretary for the Colonies
whether it was the intention of the Government to ask the
sanction of Parliament, during the present session, for a
guarantee of interest on a sum of money required to complete
the railway from Halifax to Quebec ; am', if not, whether
the intention of doing so was finally abandoned, and whether
any correspondence had taken place between the colonial
offices and the authorities in Canada and British Columbia
on the subject of the proposed telegraphic communication
between Canada and the Pacific, subsequently to that which
was produced last year ; and, if so, whether he had any ob-
jection to lay copies of such correspondence upon the table!
Mr. CARDWELL said it was not the intention of Go-
vernment to ask for any grant this session for the under-
taking in question, but the matter was under consideration.
With regard to the second question there had been some
correspondence, which would be laid on the table in a short
time.

DENMARK.
Mr. NEWDEGATE askei 'whether her Majesty's Go