The Sun.
London, England, 1864-01-21 00:00:00

', THURSDAY EVENING

two great sentiments—freedom of labour on the one side,
and slavery on the other—came inte collision on the scale in
which they exist in America what are the certain conse-
quences ? Why, we did nut find it so easy to emancipate
our own slaves ; we had some trouble. We paid £20,000,000,
and we had a long, eager agitation, in which there was
much embittered feeling; anc my firm belief is, that if the
slave party in England had oorne the same proportion to
the rest of the community when emancipation was demanded
in this country which they bore in the United States at the
commencement of the civil war, it is very probable you
would not have been able to get through your emancipation
in this country without a resort to arms, or perhaps to the
secession of your slave countries to some other slave coun-
try where there would have keen a greater affinity to them-
selves. Now, it is remarkabie what is going on at the pre-
sent moment in the North, notwithstanding this tremen-
dous pressure upon their resources, which no doubt will
raise a very large debt, but which debt I believe that coun-
try will, with its growing population and its vast means, be
enabled to bear. I have got in my hand a report of the
Commissioner of Agriculture in the United States for the
last year, and I find that in 1862 there was grown in that
country 169,993,500 bushels of wheat. I find in 1863 that
that quantity has increased to 191,068,239 bushels. I find
that nearly all articles of agricultural produce have increased
considerably even during this war, and notwithstanding the
fact that no less than a million of men employed in the
army and navy have been withdrawn chiefly from the
agricultural producing class. Notwithstanding we see this
remarkable statement,perhaps emigration may in some mea-
sure account for it, I find that large numbers of adven-
turers from every part of Europe are still crowding the
shores of the United States, I find that the commissioners
say that " 'While some as adventurers seek the western
world for military fame, stimulated, by our large bounties
and chances of promotion, on to fighting sincerely the battles
of freedom and equality, the greater part come to labour, to
enjoy independence and quiet, and to make happy the humble
homes for themselves and theirchildren. According to the re-
ports of the New York Commissioners of Emigration the
number of immigrants arriving at that port was 146,519
against 67,307 during 1862. This increase holds good in re-
spect to other great ports of our country, and independent
of the large number of persona from Canada for other por-
tions of America." I will read only one small passage more
of the commissioners' report, because if I were to go ox at
any length I should read some opinions which would be held
to be unpalatable in certain quarters. (Laughter.) I shall
confine myself to one passage, in which he wishes to indicate
some of the causes which have led to this great immigration
at this particular time in the United States. Ho says, "to
an intelligent mind, and especially to every American, the
causes of this influx of foreign population, even during a
period of war, are very evident and gratifying." I shall
simply indicate some of them without discussing them at
length. In the first place, the present rebellion is being
understood abroad in its true light, as a revolt against de-
mocracy, the rights of labour and human nature, and that
the triumph of the Government guarantees to immigration
its great reward of peace, prosperity, and freedom. (Cheers.)
I hope I may be forgiven for speaking out so much on this
question, but I could not disguise my feelings, and I think
the contest has arrived at a stage when we should frankly
express our views and interchange our ideas. (Hear, hear.)
I will next touch briefly on some questions of domestic re.
form. No doubt I ought to do so. I ought to say a great
deal on reform. (Hear, hear.) I shall be asked what has
become of the Reform Bill—is it put in the pigeonhole
never to be taken down again till covered inches de:p with
dust ? (Laughter and loud applause.) I would say the
Reform Bill when brought forward was a question which
had neither friends nor foes. (Applause.) It was smothered
with kindness—everybody was a reformer. Lord Derby
proposed a considerable reduction of the county franchise,
and said, "Go to £lO in the counties." Mr. Disraeli
thought the borough franchise ought also to be extended,
and if so effectually ; and that the promise should be
kept in the spirit as well as in the letter. The Go-
vernment brought in a Reform Bill proposing a
£lO franchise in counties and £6 in boroughs. But
that bill was completely talked out of existence. What
was the cause I I think it would not have been in the
power of any Government to withdraw a bill of such impor-
tance after it had been laid on the table of the house, unless
they found, on the part of the country and the House of
Commons, indifferent and lukewarm support. (Hear.) My
opinion remains unchanged. I think it is a mistake to
postpone the question of Reform. I believe that England's
happiness and prosperity have rested upon the fact that our
reforms have been progressive and gradual, not effected by
sudden and extensive leaps. If the Reform Bill was put off
till an indefinite period, a Reform may then be asked and
have to be granted, which will not then receive the sanction
of parties that would not support a u,eful measure of Re-
form, it would be useful for a Government, if backed by the
country, to bring forward a measure of Reform which would
extend the franchise to a larger number of the working
classes, and thus place the institutions of the country on a
broader and surer foundation. (Applause.) These are no
new opinions, thay have been expressed by the leaders of
both parties in the House of Commons. All parties are
committed to Reform, and some wish it to be understood
that they have abandoned those opinions upon which the
present Government was brought into power, and the pre-
sent Parliament elected. All say "Bring on Reform at a
convenient season." However, who is to say when it is
convenient? I say that the constituencies—the country—
must answer the question. Reform, political reform, was
never made a free gift to any people, and yet was never
granted by any governing body or Parliament except at the
demand of the country and in accordance with public
opinion. The laws of England have never anticiputed
public opinion, and I hope will never do so. A Reform
must be such as public feeling can support and cooperate
with. And, being so, nothing would have a greater ten-
dency to sweeten the political atmosphere and to increase
the general confidence of all classes throughout the coun-
try. (Applause.) I am precisely where I was. I have
already expressed my views on the question of vote by
ballot, upon which lam also where I was. I believe you
cannot have a genuine vote from a constituent body, what..
ever that constituent body may be, if you impose as a
restriction on the voter that his vote shall be published.
Unless you give the voter the power to vote by ballot, if he
sees fit, you cannot secure that the electoral body will give
countriesexpressio in which thentoitspurea clndgaesnseus aineroo so equalpinlon. in the socialeremaybo
position—there may be circumstances in which the ballot is
rendered a question of no moment ; but I believe there was
never a country of our social feelings, our sense of caste,
our aristocratic predilections, our gradations of wealth and
poverty—there never was a country in the world which
requires for the eliciting of the genuine vote of a constituent
body the power of secret voting,
to much as England.
(Cheers.)
A VoicE.—Denmark. (Laughter and cheers.)
ANOTIIERVOICE.—Ap, that's it.

Mr. GIBSON.—WeII, at asked to say a word about Den-
mark. Ono of our eminent statesmen on the Conservative
side said that the Danish question, or rather the Schleswig-
Holstain question, was one which few heel st tidied, and which
none understood. (Laughter.) I confess my studies have not
been very diligent in regard to the Schleswig-Holstein ques-
tion ; but I do not know that anybody who is not a German
professor is expected to be able to explain all the refinements
of German law, and all the difficulties which surround the
question of succession to the two Duchies of Schleswig and
Holstein. But it appears to me that this is a question
which ought to be settled without fighting• (Cheers.) I
remember that when the Congress of Paris met, after the
Russian war, which Congress was attended by delegates
from all the chief Powers of Europe, I think my Lord
Clarendon, very much to his honour, moved a resolution,
which was supported cordially by the French represtiita-
tive, to the effect that for the future it was very much to be
desired that when questions arose between the different
countries in Europe—equations of dispute—that before
having recourse to arms the office of some friendly Power
by way of a mediator should be invited. I happen
not to have the resolution ,before me, but it came to
this, " Try if you cannot settle the difficulties in
future in Europe which may arise, and which are
sure to arise, by reference to some third party, before
you resort to arms." Well, I think that was a very
sensible resolution, and I wish they could see their way to
act upon theta in this Danish Schleswig-Holstein question.
(Cheers.) All I know as regards the policy of this Govern-
ment is, that the object they have in view in any advice
that they may have given, or any moral influence that they
may have attempted to exercise, their object has been to pro-
mote faith to engagements, whether on one side or the
other, to promote justice, and also to secure peace. (Great
cheering.) But beyond telling you that the question is one
which I hope may not give rise to war between any Powers
of Europe—beyond telling you that it la impossible for me
to form any opinion as to what may be the ultimate views
of Prussia, or Austria, or Denmark in this matter—l know
not the grounds upon which they aro prepared to settle the
question. Our obligation is a very limited one in the matter,
and merely relates to the succession. (Hear, hear,) We no
doubt are parties to the treaty of 1852, whioh attempted to
settle the question of succession of Holstein and Schleswig
to the crown of Denmark—beyond that I should rather
avoid saying anything for fear I should mislead. (A laugh.)
I fear that at the present moment the question is in a very
peculiar position, all hoping for peace everywhere in respect
to it, still it looks dark and threatening, and if we express
any confident opinion perhaps we should be only misleading
—(hear)—but my earnest desire is, that it may be settled by
some kind of conference or arbitration, rather than having
recourse to arms, which only settles who is the strongest,
and very often leaves unsettled who is in the right, and who
has justice on their side. (Cheers.) I thank you once more
for your kindness. You have heard me with great indul-
gence. I have told you that my opinions upon reform are
where they were. I know that official men aro supposed to
part with their first loves and form new connections. I have
not done that yet—(cheers)—and I mean upon every occa-
gen when it is in my power to do so, to promote those
views which gained me favour in the first instance with this
constituency—reform, religious equality, extension of edu-
cation, freedom of vote—l mean vote by ballot —extension of
the franchise —(A Voice—" Retrenchment'— (Laughter.)
My hon friend says retrenchment, so say I. (Cheers.) lam
for retrenchment. lam sorry to say I do not think the
House of Commons is for retrenchment. it is very popular
is a largo expenditure, and very difficult for a Government
to reduce expenditure, If the income shows there is more