The Sun.
London, England, 1864-03-18 00:00:00

LIMITED ENLISTMENT.

The Earl of DESART asked the Secretary of War
whether the Government had made any preparation to
meet the difficulty which seemed likely to ensue in conse-
quence of the operation of the Ten Years' Enlistment Act,
Earl DE GREY and RIPON said it was the intention
of the Government to hold out greater inducements to old
retiring soldiers to re-enlistment. He was not in a position
to state the precise terms which would be offered to the men.
The matter had not escaped attention, and was now under
the serious consideration of the Government.
Lord HILL asked how the Government intended to
carry out the proposed reduction in the artillery.
Earl DE GREY said they intended to reduce the
artillery by discharging only the bad characters in the
different battalions, and in stopping the enlistment of new
men.

After a few words from the Earl of HARDWICKE, the
subject dropped.

IRISH CONSTABULARY.
Lord DONOUGHMORE asked whether her Majesty's
Government had in contemplation any measure for the
reform and improvement of the Irish constabulary.
Earl GRANVILLE said that the Secretary of State for
the Home Department was in communication with the Irish
Government with regard to the possibility of rendering it
more effective as a detective body.
After some observations from the Earl of Desart, Mar-
quis of Clanricarde, and Earl of Leitrim, the sbbject
dropped, and
The house adjourned at a quarter past seven o'clock.

HOUSE OP COMMONS—Last Evening. I
The Speaker took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Ashton-under-Lyne and Stalybridge Water—Huntingdon
and Godmanchester Gas—Lea Bridge District Gas—Lon.
don, Brighton, and South Coast Railway (Kemp Town
Station and Lines)—London, Brighton, and South Coast
Railway (Ouse Valley Line)—London, Brighton, and
South Coast Railway (Tunbridge Wells and Eastbourne
Line)—Northfleet District Gas—Tunbridge Wells Gas—
and Weston-super-Mare Pier.
On the motion of Mr. C. FORSTER, the order for the
second reading of the Metropolitan District Railways Bill
was read and discharged, and the bill was withdrawn.
PETITIONS.
Several petitions were presented chiefly from Friendly
and Insurance Societies, against the Government Annuities
Bill, and from other bodies praying that the bill should be
referred to a select committee, against any interference in
the affairs of Germany and Denmark, in favour of the
adoption of a Permissive Bill, &c.
OFFICERS OF THE INDIAN ARMY.
Sir C. WOOD said that no doubt the officers of
the Indian army, as stated in their memorial,
had great grievances to complain of, but in order to devise
a measure to meet them great consideration was necessary,
but he hoped shortly to be able to lay a bill on the subject
on the table.
SALISBURY CATHEDRAL.
In reply to Mr. H. SEYMOUR,
Mr. WALPOLE said that the report had been made by
Mr. Gilbert Scott relative to the repairs of the spire and
other parts of the Salisbury Cathedral, for which the Com-
mission ordered £lO,OOO.
GOVERNMENT INSURANCE BILL.
Mr, HANKEY asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
with reference to his proposed insurance of lives in c•melee-
tion with the savings banks, to state what is the amount of
single premium proposed to be charged on the Insurance
of £lOO on lives of the following ages, namely, 20, 30,
40, 50 ; and also the annual premium to be charged for
insurance of ,LlOO on lives of the same ages ; and whether
ne woutet Jay upon the table of tne nouse a pap,— .1--
above information ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said this
was a question of great difficulty, but not impracticable,
and would require the assistance of eminent actuaries as
well as those employed by Government.
NE W SOUTH WALES.
Mr. W. MILLER asked the Under Secretary of State for
the Colonies if advice had been received at the Colonial
Office of the Legislative Assembly of New South Wales
having followed the example of Canada, in imposing a
heavy duty on British as well as foreign manufactured
goods; and, if so, if that had been done with a view of
protecting their own manufacturers, or fur the purpose of
raising revenue bymeans of indirect taxation; and if he was
aware of its being the intention of other communities in
Australia to follow the same course in regard to their fiscal
laws through their respective legislative bodies elected on
the principle of manhood suffrage.
Mr. C. FORTESCUE said that the Government of New
South Wales had expended £900,000 in public works out of
an ordinary revenue of £1,500,000, and in order to meet the
deficiency caused had imposed an ad valorem duty on dit-
ferent articles, not for restriction purposes, but for revenue.
SITE OF THE PATENT OFFICE.
Lord A. CHURCHILL asked the First Commissioner
of Works whether,taking into consideration the great incon-
veniences of the present Patent Office, it was the intention
of her Majesty's Government, in accordance with the re-
commendation of the Parent Commissioners, to afford
facilities for erecting suitable Patent Offices, including
library and museums, &c., upon the site of Fife House,
Whitehall, it appearing that the Crown lease of this pro-
perty had recently expired, and that the Commissioners of
Patents have ample funds at their disposal for building
purposes.
Mr. COWPER said that the site alluded to was not at
present available, and no site had yet been decided upon.
THE TUSCALOOSA.
Mr. PEACOCKE asked the First Lord of the Treasury
whether he would lay upon the table of the house the
opinion of the law officers of the Crown upon the subject
of the Tuscaloosa, which was forwarded to the Admiral at
the Cape of Good Hope ?
Lord PALMERSTON said there were professional as
well as political reasons why the opinion referred to, which
was for the guidance of Government, should not be laid on
the table.

LUNATIC ASYLUMS (IRELAND). ( been justified in asking for explanation in a case of that
Colonel GRE VILLE asked the Chief Secretary for Ire- kind; but I cannot conceive how any man, considering the
land if he had received the resolutions passed by the grand
evidence, could have been led to the conclusion which the
juries of the different counties afficted by the changes pro- Procureur-General was induced to express in this case.
posed in the district lunatic asylums; and if so, whether it [An HON. MEMBER—I deny that.] (Cries of "Order.")
was the intention of the Government to persevere in the
I was about to say that I did not think I should give any
conteroclated changes ? other but a general denial to any statement of that kind, but
Sir It. PEEL, said that he was not aware of any of the the circumstances of the case are now entirely cnanged Toe
changes alluded to, but he would he happy to center with
whole subject is in the possession of the house, on the mo-
the hon. member on the subject. tion of the right hon. baronet. I have therefore no hesita-
STSB-INSPECTORS OF FACTORIES. lion or difficulty., and I do not consider there is any indig-
Col. EDWARDS asked the Secretary of State for the nity, in offering any explanation to the house which the
Home Department, with reference to the statements made
house may think requisite, or answering any question
by him on the subject of the memorial of sub inspectors which the house may think desirable. Let me take the
of factories, and the recent increase of their sa ,- statement of the Procureur. He states I was a person
laries sanctioned by the Treasury, whether it was placed in correspondence with Greco. Now, neither by
intended to convey to the house that the sub- Letter nor personally, neither directly nor indirectly, had I
inspectors' salaries had been raised to 1700 per annum evtle communication with that person, nor did I know of his
after certain years of service ; and, if not, wheth rhe would existe-else, nor, until I saw the report in the paper, even his
state the exact nature and extent of the change sanctioned name. ,ICries of " Oh, oh," " Question," and loud cheers.)
by the Treasury ? back to the case of Libaldi. M. Mazzini has
Sir G. GREY said that he had not made any scale ate such No w,ri y
let
vouis b ni
outa
....ily written to the press to state that there
as that alluded to, but it was proposed that the salaries was no such fund ~,r such plot, and of course he has never
should be raised gradually to £5OO a year. e treasurer of it. It is hardly necea-
THE DA.NO-GERMAN CONFERENCE. ich I now say very distinctly, that
In reply to L )rd R. MONTAGU, asasykeidormmeetotobseacyomtheatthwh,
vanced any money for any such
Lord PALMERSTON said that he had already whatever, to persons who
stated that Prussia, Austria, and other European powers I
purpose,neeer h
oe
rl d
for the. faunnyd spourr
purpose
a a
wg itphortallonataleoinnstipmiraaccyy.wiltht isa
had agreed to the conference, and they had reason tc
onewere
hengagtedh,a,nvocohnandecatiolonn.
believe that ,!, Denmark would also consent. He hoped
ra t 'I
another thing to be :;upposed to be implicated
that a conference, when the question at isoue would be dis- . an! and another • •
cussed, would lead to an armistice. (Hear, hear.)
—whether of a character which will bear investigation, or
in his undertakings—(derisive cheese from the Opposition)
THE PLOT FOR ASSASSINATING THE EMPEROR of a character attributed to me. The lion, member has re-
OF THE FRENCH.
Sir 11. ST fiACEY asked the First Lord of the Trea• ferred to the trial of Orsini, and has said my nal .e was im-
plieated in that trial. Ido not know how to reply to that
sury
to allow the motion which was on the paper assertion, because this is the first time I havd heard my name
to have precedence of the orders of the day,
connected with it. (Oh, oh, from the Opposition, !allowed
Lord PALMERSTON', who did not at first reply to the
by cheers from the Ministerial benches.) If the hon.
question, said he had no command over the orders of the baronet will adduce any evidence or make any statement, I
day. ' am ready to answer it. (Cheers.) The hon. baronet has
Mr. DISRAELI was surprised to hear the noble lord referred to the loan notes. In 1860, immediately atter the
state that he had no command over the business of the fall of the Roman republic, I was requested to allow my
house on a Government night. name to be placed upon the back of those notes, as a refer-
Lord PALMERSTON repeated his statement, but added ence to persons who might apply to take them, their object
that he was ready to give the motion precedence of the Penal being to aid in the objects of Italian unity and independence.
Servitude Act Amendment Bill, which was on the paper. Now, lam quite ready to admit I consented that my name
THE GOVERNMENT ANNUITIES BILL. should be so used; but in a few weeks I saw reason to
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER entered consider the propriety, and even legality of that step, and
into an elaborate statement of figures and facts to prove thought I was justified in taking counsel, and asking the
that he was quite correct in what he asserted relative to the opinion of an old friend of mine, an eminent member of the
British Provident Society, and the only mistake he corn. legal profession (Mr. Sergeant Manning,) Taking his
of ft technical character, and
witted-was merely consisted advice, I requested that my name should be withdrawn im-

mediately from those documents. (Cheers.) I have no-
thing further to state to-night. These are the simple facts
as far as I know them, as far as I am interested in this
matter. If there is any other question occurring to the
mind of any hon. member, I am perfectly ready to answer.
I have no hesitation in answering any question that is
asked. (Cries of No, no, from the Opposition.) The hon

gentleman here appeared to be about to resume his seat,
but, as if recollecting an omission, he resumed; I have
omitted one important part, the question of the use to
which my house has been turned, as a natural consequence
of intimate personal relationship, to which I never for a
moment hesitated to acknowledge. M. Mazzini's letters,
the house will understand, have not been able to reach
him for many years, if addressed in his own name. He
has therefore asked his various English friends, of whom
I am one—(loud cheers from the Opposition, followed by
counter cheers from the Ministerial benches)—to allow
letters to be addressed to their houses, Letters for him
have been addressed in that way to him, and among others
letters have been addressed to him under the name that has
been mentioned here. (Loud cheers from the Opposition.)
They have been addressed to my house under the name,
amongst others, of " Signor Fiori." (Cheers.) I need not
say that the name " Flower," as the house will easily un-
derstand, is a translation of the Italian name " Fiori"—
(derisive cheers)—but I have made inquiries, and I do not
believe any letter for Mazzini has been addressed to my
house in the name of Flower. (Derisive cheers.) I en-
tirely admit at the same time that it is not advisable, and
it is not fitting, whatever may be the contents of Mazzini's
correspondence, that his letters should be addressed to the
residence of the person occupying the position I now oc-
cupy. (Hear, hear,) But it has not been necessary for
me to make any representation on this subject to Mazzini.
He has volunteered to me a statement that he has
taken measures to prevent his correspondence being ad-
dressed to my address. (Loud cheers from the Opposition.)
I have contented myself with stating facts. I say Ido not
think any one can dispute the truth of what I say. I have
no knowledge of these transactions to which the hon. mem-
ber referred, and I now leave this question without further
remark. (Cries of "Oh I oh I" and cheers.)
Lord H. VANE had heard with great regret the expla-
nation brought forward by the hon. gentleman. He ad-
mitted that explanation was much more satisfactory than
the one he afforded the other night—if that could be called
an explanation—(Cries of " No, no," from the Opposition)
—which was simply a defence of M Mazzini. The house
had nothing to do with the character of Mazzini. They
had certainly had no right to defend it , they had
no right to go against the whole moral sense of Europe.
(Cheers,) It was a mistake to suppose that this sense
of the principles of M. Mazzini was confined to
the Imperialist party in France. He could say,
from personal knowledge, that none upheld his principles
except it were the remnant of the party of '93; for even the
republicans, the former supporters of General Cavaignac,
revolted against the principles of Mazzini, and repudiated
the idea of asoociation with a man so held in abhorrence
throughout Europe. (Cheers.) No one had suspected that
the hon. member was himself guilty of participation in
such a horrible plot ; but no one could deny that the hon.
gentleman had been guilty of great imprudence, according
to his own admission that night, in allowing letters to be
addressed to his own house for Mazzini, when he could not
be cognisant of the nature of that correspondence. He
thought the French people, the French Chamber, and the
French public had a right to complain of such conduct on
the part of a member of this house, who had now been
drawn into the admission that he had dropped all connec-
tion with Mazzini. (Cries of No, no.) The house had
nothing to do with personal friendship, but had a right
that such friendship should not compromise that house,
should not compromise the Government with which the
hon. member was connected, and should not compromise
the people of England. (Cheers.)
Lord H, LENNOX had shared in the indignation and
astonishment at the speech of the Procureur-General; but
the statement of the hon. member astonished him when he
said that he heard for the first time that night that his
name was implicated with Mazzini. [Mr. STANSFELD—
I said Orsini.] The noble lord proceeded to say that the
name of the hon. member for Halifax appeared in the acts
d'accusation on the trial of Tibaldi in 1857, and was fol-
lowed by Mr. P. A. Taylor, who avowed a long and inti-
mate friendship with Signor Mazzini, and stated that his
house had for years been placed at the disposal of Signor
Mazzini for the reception of his Continental correspondence.
Sir J. PAKINGTON next rose, and, after expressing
his opinion that the explanation offered to the house by
the hon. member was not satisfactory, asked the noble
lord at the head of the Government whether any expla-
nation had been offered by her Majesty's Government to
the Government of France with respect of the speech of the
Procureur-tieneral.

Lord PALMERSTON then rose amid loud cheers, and
said—Nothing undoubtedly can be, generally, more pain-
ful than personal discussions in this house. At the same
time, I cannot express any regret that the hon. baronet has
brought this subject forward, because it has drawn from my
hon. friend a declaration which, differing from the right
hon. baronet (Sir J. Pakington), I think perfectly satisfac-
tory—(cheers, and cries of " Oh")—becauso it gives a denial,
an absolute and total denial, to the only charge which has
been insinuated against him, viz., having any cognisance
whatever of the plot. The right hon baronet asks me

whether her Majesty's Government has deemed it right to
mafra any Primmunirati in to the Government of France on
a passage in the speech of an advocate in a court of justice
in France ? Why, sir, no. (Loud cheers.) We have no
right to take cognisance of what takes place in a court of
justice in France with regard to matters wi,ich are brought
before them. If there was an opinion that anything which
passed upon that occasion amounted to a charge againsr, my
hon. friend that he had any connection, direct or indirect,
with that transaction. the answer to that imputation and
insinuation was given to the world by my hon. friend in this
house, and that was a sufficient refutation. (No, no, from
the Opposition.) But I will freely own that I Mould have
felt humiliated if I had had to be a party to a communica-
tion to the Frdnch Government, telling them that an Eng-
lish gentleman—a member of Parliament, holding an office
under Government—was not connected with an infamous
plot. (Hear.) I congratulate the hon. gentlemen opposite
on the feelings and sentiments which seem to actuate them
on the present occasion. (Cheers and counter cheers.) We
have been told that the imputations, false as they were, of
the Procureur-General have excited the indignation of
the French nation, and that something is due to the
feelings of France as an atonement for the suspicion
they entertain that something or other has taken place
in this country which indirectly, if it does not acquiesce
in, at least amounts to a disclaimer from participai ion in the
attempt which has been made. We have been reminded of
ISSB. There was then an attempt actually made on the life
of the Emperor of the French, Well, what did the Govern.
ment do at that time ? We spontaneously proposed to the
house a measure which was intended to prevent the recur-
rence of such attacks. (Loud cheers and counter cheers.)
Hon. gentlemen opposite publicly and formally expressed
their approval of that measure—(renewed cheers)—but
when they thought that a combination of circumstances and
an absolute abandonment of their own opinions might lead
to a change of Government, they threw over their promises,

cast their indignation to the winds, and objected to that to
which they had formerly declared their adhesion, and re-
fused that satisfaction which they now seek. (Cheers and
cries of " Question.") Well, sir, I say that the language
which they use on the present occasion against a member of
the Government needs no explanation beyond his own de-
nial. With regard to my hon. friend, I say that, if I thought
that for a moment that he could have had the slightest par-
ticipation in the transaction to which the discussion of this
evening alludes, I should have represented to him that it
would be more becoming that he should cease to be a mem-
ber of the Government. (Cheers.) But I have not done so,
because I know my hon. friend is incapable of such an
action. (Cheers.) Therefore, sir, I say that I do not regret
the motion of the hon. baronet, because it has afforded to my
hon. friend an opportunity of repeating the disclaimer which
I think he male sufficiently on a former occasion. If, how•
ever, that was not deemed satisfactory, the statement he has
made to-night ought to be a conclusive reason why the
motion of the hon. baronet should not be acceded to. (Loud

cheers.)
Mr. DIS RAELI confessed that he was disappointed at
the tone which had been taken by the noble lord, who had
had a golden opportunity of extricating the house from
a very painful position. The noble lord, however, had
taken refuge in that vein to which he was too accustomed.
He thought it unfortunate that the noble lord, imme-
diately after saying that he would submit to no act of
humiliation, calied attention to the circumstances of 1858.
As to the President of the Board of Trade, surely some re•
gard might have been had to the feelings of an absent man.
The noble lord ought to have been ashamed of attacking by
inuendo a man so distinguished. (Opp ,sition cheers.) The
noble lord's remarks proved that he did not understand the
very point upon which the decision of the house was asked,
Let us see what occurred. The Procureur-General—the
Attorney-General of a great country—publicly stated, in a
court of the highest consideration in France, to the effect
that a member of Parliament had been the medium by
which Mazzini communicated with the conspirators against
the life of the Emperor. Did the hon. member for Halifax
deny the statement? Why, he (Admitted it. (Loud Opp°-
, ition cheers.) He did not deny that these letters did come,
and that his house in Thurloe-square was the medium of
communication between Mazzini and his correspondents.
Mr. STANSFELD—What correspondents ?
Mr. DISRAELI—What correspondents? You know
them better than I do. (Cheers from the Opposition.)
What correspondents? Why, the assassins of Europe.
Renewed cheers.) The right hon. gentleman proceeded to
say that it was the universal feeling throughout the coun-
try that the dignity of the house had been compromised,
and he was sorry to add that, after the expressions used by
the noble lord, the Government had been compromised also.
His hon. friend had, in no spirit of unfriendliness to the
noble lord—(laughter)—given him an opportunity of com-
ing forward and asserting that he would take those steps
which a person in his exalted position could easily do to re-
move the extreme apprehension and the great and growing
disquietude which this affair has occasioned. The noble
lord had only to say that after the statement of the
hon. member for Halifax he felt he should feel it his
duty to place himself in, communication, by which at
least regret isht expressed) that even IthconseieuslY