The Sun.
London, England, 1852-04-24 00:00:00

T Ti SUN,

Mr. P. II0W4B1) should support the motion of her
Mijes.)'• Goveeorn ,Ile. had ,Suppcirtvd
the w-a,ure of the Noble L,ird late at the head of-the
GOvernment, and in that remarkable division he was
a follower of the now fallen blotter. The Noble Lords,
having established the necessity of increasing the in-
ternal defencs of this country, the question for him
to consider was, whether, because some modification
in his measure hood been made, (ne. P. Howerd):
should Ow be juatifiA in pursuing h . different course,
and -voting against the mettaure ? „Ifs his.. opinion
it was imposhible to do so With anything :like con-
sisteecy.—(Ctieers from the Ministerial benches.) Perhaps
an increase of the regular army might be a more effec-
tive mode of providing for any danger, but it would be
difii.,tilt, year after ) ear, t m.,intaito that ctrl sits en to our
force. During the riots in Lord G. Guidon'. tone the
safety of the metropolis ~as ie;pg 1101, to the reeular
army, bat in great measure to the ,Northonairerlatil
miiiti a. lie a rattly to rest the yeepensibility oethis,
measure on the Execative Government, alai to incur any
political odium to which hi: mi,411, be subjected for sup-
portimg the pe,s-nt ineasure.--(Hear, bear.) '
Sir J. PAICING rox thought that the course which
the Hort,
aM.ti;ro r who hail lust eat down was. about to
t'ke wasby
some
whqhre, tAltsmni,d,tbtahttlint:.. rivalniiunee
schemes up.,n the rptipr, the d.tf-reut obieetio
as veriotis as the II imourable Gentbeei.n who he i made
theb, to the measure of the. Government, hi? had
been greedy struck , and gr.itifi-d by the fact
that no gentleente hail attem etea to gr ippie
with that proposition urged in such remarkable
by the Dake if Welling •in in 1547, and adveveit
to by his Hen. Fiend honied him (Ur. Newilegate)-,
which had been urg d by the. Noble Lod at. the heal il
bflyi
Gl the lace 'iverionent, si,d was now pressed rir
that the defelvies of thus
ethoeunprreyse air,it,!l.,tst,,,.tlye.tvi iz,s;
coramon pludeece they
ouebt to be. —(Cheers;)
~ After the "speech of the Eton.
Baronet (Sro H. Peel) he dui n,t tin ow how tar he
might coesider hi,n ion e.iteep ion to this rule. Bur he
must look to the hige alitreitiry of the Disk..? of Welling-
ton at that upon which he mist. mere yeig- t thee
upon the opinion 0, the' lion Baronet on this que-lion;
and lookeig to the slate ef E tr. p , and the defences of
this country, he thought we were in policy and prudence
bound to take.care that thedefeuces of this country were
more satisfactory than they were now,—(Cheer..)
There appeared to prevail among the leading politic.atis
a general opinion that the most canstitutional and best
mode of providing these defences was iu some way or
other by the old and approved plan of a militia foroo.—
tHear,) TO the 'spsech of the Honourable 'Member
for Leominster (VII.. F. Peel) he owned he,,bad.liitened
with verygre at surprise.-(Eitj or, and Ministerial patoers.)
Tnat Ron. Gentleliaa wase a member of the late .tio-
vernment. He was one of thoie who sat on the _Tres-
sury benches when the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J:
Russell) urged, in teropg and just language, that to
which the members of the present Government took no
exception. He was bound. to auppose that the Hon.
Member then thought 'with the Government,, and that
he was prepared to support them by his vote. Yet, it
now appeared that the Hon. Gentleman was opp ailed to
the very principle of a, Militia Bill.—(Cheers from the
Ministerial benches.) The Hon. Member for Richmond
(Mr. Rich) was now prepared to vote for reading the
Bill a second time that day six mouths; yet he also was
a member of the late Government, and was, he must
suppose, also prepared to vete on that occasion.—
(()heers.) This showed the effect of good. discipline,
that those Hon. M'stribers should be prepared to support
the late Government although they now opposed the
Militia Bill.—(A laugh.) Tne Honoureble Meinber for
Richmond said that one of the ohji,cticins to this Bill
was that it would interfere with the industrious habits
of the country. He (Sir J. Pekington) took the
strongest objections to this mode of stating the. clues-,
don. The first dilty Of every Citizen of the Sta'e was
to take care of the prtreetioto of property in it.—(Hear,
hear.) By the Milt is Bill this protection was proposed
to be given upon i helairest terms, and if they looked to
European cinwries and to the United States, where the
rights and habits of freedom and industry prevailed to
as great an extent as in sny other country, they would
find there the most stringent militia law.--(lleNr.) The
Hon. and Gallant Memoer for Weattnineter (Sir D. L.
Evans) did not assert that the defences of the gauntry
were what they ought to be, arid it was not upon such
paltry points as he urged that the broad question of im-
proving the defences of our common country was to be
placed. It was said we might etr,,e4theu our &fences
by recoiling our troops from the colonies. But hi hoped
that this view would not he teken the /Louse, that
because we were weak in one part of the empire, we
were to weaken the more distant parts of the empire.
—(lies, hear.) The Honourable Member for Re •h
began his argument with a view which he was
surprised should proceed from a Menster proressing
Vpular opinions. He said the House ought to be litraid
of putting arms in the heeds of the militia; that
d .nger of riot'and disturbance might arise, and. that
then we should be sore to haie Intrustei the militia
with arms. Now, he had no Buell feArs.—(C'helrs.)
He believed . there. was no groued for such apprehen-
sions; nor e•allci he suhsoribe to the Elln. M enb.ir'e

other ohj -shoos, that if Parlietnenc pease(' this I.w and
embodied the militia they w gild encourage drunken and
tail babiis among a loose and debanetted perciiin of the
people. I. Wei impossible to say what class of voluti-
seers might join and eike the b iunty, and we might
hive people of greater reep-otabi:icy thin the Hon
Member :seep ,sed. But, if it wi re otherwise, were n a
the beer-houses open to these persona now, and would
habits of military discipline make them worse nit e.ae,
and subjects than they were at present? --(II AO He
did not uederstend that the Hon. Member for MAD
cheater was against a militia Bill, but wile that be
wished to pastporie it until next session of Parliament
—(A. laugh.) But the nonce he had read with the
must surprise was that of the Honourable M,03-
ber for Westbury (Mr. Wilson), who said it
was better to make an addition'to the resit
lar army than to embody the militia. When he
read the Hon. Member's notice 'his could not help
picturing to himself the reception which' a proposition
for adding 10 000 or 20,000 men to the standing army,
if . made by the. Government, Would have experienced
from Hon. Gentlemen opposite—not
excepting, the Hon.
Member for Westbury hinasele.....e
(Cheers' and laughter.)
Oompared to an addition to tho standing army the em-
bodiment of. the militia possessed many advantages. In
the first place, the country obtained the services of 80 000
or 100.000 militiamen for the same outlay which would
make an addition of only 10,000 to the regular army.
. Then, again, the militia, when not embodied, cost the
country nothing. Thy Noble Gird the Member for Ti.
verton had also referred to another reason for preferring
a militia force to an augmentatbn of the army, namely,
that when a'portion of the army was disbanded it could
not be recalled. while the militia could al ways be ap-
pealed to in case of emergency.—(flear, hear.) Past
experience also proved that the
,most expeditious
and efficacious modes. of 'adding to the army, in
case of need, was by draughting from the militia-
men already accustomed to military discipline.
The House bad bole ou the present opott,ion, been
fevoured with the views of the Hon. Member for the.!
West Riding and the Peace party, who believed that the'
autism of armies could be supCrseded by arbitiation.
['bough he could not concur in the opinions eocerteined
by those gentlemen, he nevertheless cows under tan i
how they could con .istently oevse the proposition, of
the Government, or any other plan for iuereasiu ou.
military establishineete; but when the proposal of th.
(overuses wie , bjeet el to by p.,r:.oni who, 11.3 the
lion, aed Gallant alemeer fir Westminster, atiiniettie
that our oft-kraal defences ought to be strengthened, the
House was entitled to expect, some better arguments Ili
suppurt of the objection than any ..hich had been off-red
in the course of the discussi in.—(Mea%) The plate of
the Government was more free hem objeetion than any
other that hail been sueizeited. The Noble Lord oppo-
site (Lord J, Russell) hid, on more than 411 W oecaiion,
propueed the embodiment of ,he militia. He props -d
.1c first, iu 1848, when, as was understood, he was in-
duced to abandon it from finincial considerations. The
Noble Lord then stated, in the most explicit terms, his
opinion as to the importance of embodying the militia.
In the course of the pre,eist session the Noble L eil again
propos. d the same mea-ure, and met with no opposition
from the party wi h whim he (sir J. Pakington) acted.
A. difference of °pita in arose as to whether the militia
eheuld be general or toed, but to the proposition
for the ertindimont : f a militia -n., oppaition w:ia
:{''red.—(Heir, heir.) 11,r M j.st)'s G iverment c .n-
-fliently neoev-d lbw. under their plan volunreers !viols!
be
tsis ewer .us i bat it ,voult be unnecessary to resort ttithehall .t, except, perhaps, to a limited ,xtent. This
.t•..«,rernerit had framed their p!ttee with th,l view of
„tnerft::;se
itthtiotnai gu :
nt:h:.:_r.
ii.l4:
tttiee(inn
,cwie,:s:hoLt
hi
mt.,:
leaste, .
fcoff ut,trury4 possible
any
nn
sdt h.,:reepirm:
:oil: :
ra to tho
:aar
n.
hy
eetwria:cti
had
13:1,1,,ghteibztdri
t:44
nor the indu,tri4 pus-nits of the country,—(lisle,
tr,
he
"PP ,aitio
gi'in''n's w"rf, morecti worthy of the House and the suhjeOt
trusted that it would rest on era
slusy to the counr:re;t:eni':::go'ft.i.' .
Government we The IM-meers of site
calculated having discharged their
foft, measure which they be-
ing this measure forward.
. upon
them,
t)heyikh
,dt
in..,11,..er- the responstbdity imposed
lieved to be best
iniceit defenceless iselrttlee
the Object in
view, and it now remained foliff.mti"
tresponsibility of
Heuse to decide'
. whetherthiet
cwoturueltdr.yta
leaving
the present state Of 'affairs on the cona_usetnetin 'the face of
(Hear, hear.) For his own part ba• :;ould
tiri)if,t.Europe.
'don which he had the henoue to ncatipi:.._
post
..
'of .ne in the
responsibilityfn 1 et
abstaining from urgthe
g the adop.
'on. of this measure on the flouse.—(abeere)
lion
Lord J. RUSSELL-:—lfrr were' one of these 'who
think that the country requires no additional defences', I
iy to consent to the second read should.probahly be rea. (
' f :this Bill. I
ilig,o . might ray.
that' although the' ' -
tnea.
required—although it would cause a waste
alire
was
not
great mischief can anise from it,
of money, yet as no
had brought it forward on their
and as the Government b.
Billing 'that it a ou h Id be read a
responsibility, I was
'
second.time; but it is because I feel that the country
I think that its de-, requires further defenees--because .
organized than they now are,
&noes ought to be better
..
~.... ,_ Bill.
that I cannot consent to the second reading or this
ued" for
—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh,". and laughter contin
_.
be.
ground that I
some Vme.) I oppose the Bill on the
lieve it would prove, as a measure of defence, an utter' _
delusion—becsuse I am convinced that we Should find a.
the end of •a year or two that it had utterly failed to
give any seouriy to the country.—(Hear.) I object to
the Bill for the same 'leaden which would induce me to
object to putting into the hands 'of infantry muskets
vvnich would burst, or into the hand. of cavalry sw.,rde
which would break. I ohj et to the Bill, because it is
.doing mischief to persuade PJrliainent and the count!),
that. you are providing for the defame) of 'the conn•
try. when, in firs, yen are net - doing so. I
must beg tne Heuse to listen to RIO w 611.., I state
weat I couceive• to be the danger—to. be encountered,
and what- 15 . wanting for that purpeie in 'this present
Tlealiure. ' ia49.net wll3llP4MitAiNtlLUP244l2‘ihole;o4lo-:
talOgiuripprelleaota of to suddeil mini iu *is i

country of 50,000 hottile-troopein;6 Ont.) eittne and of I should wish to keep whatermy he had at no great dice
entirely Marchine up-iefeinibietwithoutnottce. ' Tirsp I,4nce frfixi tits capital,: and ais anti •from one SoutheetrAtattet.
are notions which are fouteltdtopon panic rethen'tlian en would it bp seta oteetete.te ebocet 10,0e0 or 12.000 ;nen
• rea.sonable calculation.- . I proceed only on theegroend, , otehiacherecttaainorder to oppose a
,t'o'rtet'disciplithid..
that we have near us a' powerful nation'. with which tic in the
I a highest. dpgreee who had bean in Algeria's in the'
have engaged in war four times during the last., ceiltary, 1 acte'll-Practice.-of war and under an able commander,
e be t repared to ati .'
cause. he wished to ' obtain poeteSsienof our Afiriet;Cent them ?. (IT
About a venturer- go we wenteto war with It rane e P
-7 entore).:. I believe you will be totally deceived
.colonies. Aheut 20 .years later we • again eneaged -in it yeu eapnet good service from such men. It would be
drawn for the serviee,
,s.httault army that bey be. brought before
war with Fraece•beeimileshrewes disposed to dieend our quite: a digarentAing flyoh had the men whette4epre't'
American pessessions which heerdeelered.themselves in- , posed !).Y clOr Dille-meta of a very • different charatiteie
Fderpseundrbentcoatsues.2mn
01e7r9stywpert:nivcaeiltndoirnetW4net toon!.Wttrayr,waintah ' aettl6l ill t/'..t-eir:different places of abode: and. who; when
w
because withered the spreading of the repu hiicen Spirit of. arv,ive „„4 spiriti,...cu-
e:r, lulu up
r sn it with a proper
ut then, ,there, iv
conquest. ' Iu 1804 we engaged itihostili,.les with Pr once' kir!. ,t her pert ot ;he
_Bei, which conteins theltellof. I
faecal's° she was then .subjeetenap-awerful and depaiic, stl'eulj say of the,'llataeet ir, ctrisitte of two parts, ono
utr;
Savereiga, and we *heeded the spirit of cenqtreet under- hi , of wi-oeh is intlfuient, and
dee other o ressivee.e (11e*
sway. I cannot believer th et national fueling has so much lreir.) All the begineing.pert, whichpp offers this theney
chaeged, that the pas ions 01 people -are sol,tnuc:h al-,let•-d re c/ for bean y, or, 2s, 61 a-menth for volunteer;,
a, to . leave .- no probatrirry - of a war areene tinwhieh you might get a 'pauper. militia, is certainly
between the two countries. Ti the qlestien artr•eae- 0.1 ‘PPrvAlive, but would he inefficient. But when you
What* will-you de to Protect' t eureslf against itivetton, in etnne to the other. part.of the Bill-to
the ballotymi
the event of. hostilities occurring? "Thom who look fo•' lh,ee then a ballot. Comprehending persons from;18 to.
the history. of former wars will find that they occurred
.35 years hi' age, Which would therefore interfere with
more than once, at a tiinewhen we were ill-prepared tor persons engaged in all the various occupations- of the
hostilities, when our_ tevel and military eatetfle,htn tutt c ',IOU, anti whteaetakes the married' men who are
were at• an -exceedngly law points, and that it wee net elr fifty siefees,ful in, that way of life in whit b they are
until the second. or third 'year of the war that ae w,re ,;killed.---: (Great lauehter'.s Yee;ease of 0 e
able to make any • great elf ir s tigehist tai. energy with wet ver, for toeteece, or any ether man .who'has sonv.
whom we had to:et:lntend; If see ex.eniiie what: ti:4'ber ti skill in the Indus:Hoes arts, you take him from his neT
g•Ang on in the world of lam yeers, lam itafreid, we ceptrien and at tal him to serve for five years as a.
!nallat, Ottn to the tr=naltaston that the arty of witr-'likee‘.ll sold•er, and therthy it 11 Ct a very great' hardship on
as. those of peaceheir • been much improved; an -- and it is him - (11-ar, helm.) -N,, man can well deny that to
he °Alien of .all prteeasiohel Amen that th-•i operation. take a Alan of 30, 32, or Siat years of age, who is alteady
of tin armed torce would It trt-respe,-dy and destructive settled • and prospeeine
. prospering hi life,' and to toil him that fine
than they were: tom rte. ,If that be the ease, It will not he next five ye.ar-a lie. OhOnfd be a soldier, was a great
be satfictent to refer oo the ref' hauces which in:etfi-tenee..wiiii the- ordinary occupttions of life; and..
have - haberto .seved 'this calvary from Livelier). Sething but the. "greateat etnereeney ,could justify you
Steam n.:)w triu-ninel • over - the elements. -I do in se acting., I so cnhytnetid of this, that lam per-
ot wish to exiggerate the tot in .which an eutdtd, tis I ttar el at • the commencement, that you will
invasion might assume. 'retire ' might ,be 6,000, net have tried your measure fora year Without finding
10,0013., or 15,000 .m re landing fr,-, 0 st,ethm,r, at, that the country -will resist such needless oppression and=
some part or - the • delft, and, at the' Fenn time, ehlate Ole Parili,nant, by their
o rirtionatrances to repeal
there might be fear or five eteaineri. landlng more forces it.-(Hear, hear.) I• --3.,a now. telking in reference to
at another part of, be-e nutty.., Then the qu ationtoc- the bontiogeney which
•I think must likely to happen;
curs et What :orce have we to me,t such in invAiee?" that though' you ,might have a great deal 'of mune)
And the answer must be -though my Hon. and Gthatat to Fps,- P, and ' though, possibly, you might pay
Fiend near me'seeins' t t think that our force is meta ' 300 0004 in the. W
. aY..
of • beunt y. in the present
greater than I estimate it-that we have not a sufficient year Tfor. 50,900 men, yet, in, •
the ,
next
year, you
free to meet the circumstances of the tease,-(11 at )" a outd ' fitil that you would not have :a force of 80,000
It severs that we • heve,• including 'the Guards, but men, which you
but
expect; h
would be obliged to have
24.000 iufaniry in Great Britain, and 17,000 in Ireland, recourse to the ballot .to suppl-
e the numbers. - These,
in all 41.000. As to •brinelog over these 17,000 troops ' therefore, are reasons which induce me to think that the
from Ireland.- I think-any Exeeutive-Gavernment would . present Bid is very improperly frees ed for, its purpo,:es;
hardly venture on such a meaturta.se, ing that, if 'there and I'am the more iectined to say so because almost
was an invasion of. this country, ,no [ling would be mere every one of the propositions in the .Bill are proposition:
likely than that law ful& he followed very soon 'by an in- rip'pertaining to the old militia, which the late Govern-
vesion of Itedand, also-(ftear.)-• Ti. do tio Wouid be 'ment•considered and deliberated on, and deliberately re-.
taking a moat iMprovident oeurse, anal one which would' jected..(Hear, hear.) They felt' the objections `I have
probably be attended,- with vary calamitous- results. - I• ?tilted, and they.felt that they would be so great and so
must come. then, to the aoecittst''b tnat the 24,000 in overwhelming when represented.in this House, that the
fantry in Great Britain and the 17,000 • infantry in Ire- Governmeot would not be able to defend such a measure.
land, with a force not very considerable of cavalry, is not Therefore thelete Government refused to bring for-
sufficieht to meet Ate evil with which we have to contend; ward a measure of hat kind, The present Government.
litre I must, at the hez irti of ' Wearying the .Rouse on however, somewhat thoughtlessly, and without entering
that Subject, refer to the Measure ' which the late Go- inta the consideration of all the circumstances I have
vernment proposed, with the view of providing the - referred to, 'and without eefltc:ion, have 'adopted all
means of ,additional defence. Tne Right Hon. Gentleman those-propositions. 4 question, and a very serious one:
who ep .ke.. last, as well as some . others who piet then occurs, and it is..this:-Supposing it be true as I
ceded him, seemed to be in *tome doubt -as to the cha- say, that we cannot be exemptsfrom the dangeteof 'wart
racter of that measure, saying at one time tbaathere was and if war arises that we cannot have the same provi
but little difference between that measure and the pre- sions to meet it as we formerly, have lad-supposing
sent-though if it be so, I may ask how•was it' that they smite:force should .be required for the defence of ' the
would not allow the late. Government to introdnce their country (arid this meant° does net . give you the pros-
B 11, there being- so alight a difftrence between them.-e- peck of such a force), what is the course which' this
(Elear, hear.) Or 4if they lake the other side ,and say 1-1 ,use ought to pursue?. I say, in the first place, that
there is a difference-of prineiple-which is indeed the the matter is no doubt one for the consideration of the
fact-between this theittorteand the one. which we were Governmeht. latetiuld not de, as the Right Hon. Gen-
prepared to•ituroduct, then how can they obj•ct to our tlemen who last spoke seemed to imply, if the. House re-
viewing their measure ;with as: much repughadde as they jetted this particular. !mature, with all the particular
received ours?-(Bear, hear.) New, inconsidering this clauses, objectionable as they ere--it would not do 'fiii
measure which Loroposed to introduce, it seemed to me; t'-e Government then to Any that, therefore, this House
and to those who approved of it, that ther., are (4 , -,, 11)3 does not care for the defence of the ceuntry.-a.(Hear.
in which men may become very-good soldiers arid fit to heor.) Itis the bionden duty of the Ministers of 0(1
defend their otuntry. The one .is when men otingh Crown either to produee a measure which they think
spirit end °tweeter, moved by some strong religious or sufficient for the'defeeee of the country, or teke the
political feeling, or :excited by this love' of their country,' conrse ivhich I took, and gay, " We will no longer con-
or by any danger eini•iently threatening their ceuntry, tinee at 'the head of the affairs of the nati9n.-(a. Hear,"
are induceddo•nee 'are seldittre. •Of tb-it deecription ot and laughter.) 'wet el' knoW that is not the course
men was the force which - Crnmareil, wish his usual ea- which the preeent .Government :mean to adopt. 'The
gicity and knowlefge of mankind. raised and corn- N'Oblkt L-ird at the bead of the Government said that he
mended himself,. and which he brought to a state of dist wait eitling to
eueh
tnit to any humiliation, to any degree
cipliae that enabled him to deteat the bravest and mist of affront and -mortification-('' No. no")-to any degree'
spirited cavaliers of the royal e,„,-(Hear, hear.) of mortifittation--wather .thatt advise the dissolution of.
Such a force wee the 400,000 wen who at ,he beginning Parliement sooner. than he thooght necessary.-(HearS
of this century started up as Voluttteerg to defend this hear.) That is what the Nooh, Lord stated. lam going.
island against what they bell• ved aveuld he .t.he if .v,.. 'to mike an irifeitenee-.-my own-that he le to weemble
airin ot a despet who woold destrcl our in,l,pendene,4.-- Parliament again in 0 toher. and until that Perlis-
(Moir, hear.)
.0i such a sleFcriatien ef f ece were h .se , meat was assembled he would not think of resign-
at ho of late years, in Hungary, (o,olr, in defence to teeir 'rig' his present aitratiou. In short, the present,
country wheu they were at.teekod by the whele force Of slinistere ere like ph:doh:its' not to be killed until after
Ainarie, and Rue is.-(dear, hear.) But 't• ere it the-Ist o.- •Oettibtr.-(Great "aught-a) That is their
mother mode in which our soldiers have u.ull'y betel position; and ho vote.of this HoUse..can affect their offit
rain: d, and cur army cotistruoted oind that rocs& is by eisi St7uations. Iten, I sayahat they cannot get rid oft
raking youne met, of unsettled dispositions. who have • the other obligation to propose such measure; to the
,a love of military adventure, who have net perhaps tioy ifiuie as they think necessary for the defence of the
decided cheracter,•but who, by military cliscipine. and kingdom. They'can hardly say that the present means
habits Of sudordicstione, are brought to be excellent for the defence of the nation are ample and sufficient,
toldi-rs anti ready to ptrform the grsatest feats of arms. arid they are therefire bound to declare, after what they
-(Flear,hear.) With respect to this latter description have stated, if this measure does not suit the House,
of character we have s enit en'ormation from en entho- that they have other measures by which the country can
rity who has .been qeeted.to-night, and whose wores.l be adequately defended. In respect to the little I have
will lay bet ire the House.. Washington says ot men to &ley, I speak, of c nurse,. only as an individual Member,
like thecae:- • - t without the sanctien of any one but•mytelf ; but, for my
"It t.lo•b; you two or three months to thing new men own part. I should, not recommend-the Government to
acquainted with their duty; it, takes a longer time to mak,• a large increase to the standing army.-(blear,
biting a people of the teulper and genius of these into hear.) I do, hOWevi;r; think that' there are other Mee •
such a tabordiaate way of thinking as is necessary for a cures, partly seggested this evening, by which a much
soldier:' . - . . larger Cave might 'be engaged for the defence of the
And again, "To bring then to a proper degree of sober- country than exists at present. I think a much larger
diustiou is not the work of a day, a month, or even a force _might be obtathat in tithe from a proper organi-s
year."-(11-ar, beer.) To the same if ot in one elf Mr. eetion of the pensioners. That was dwelt on- by my
Pitt's speeches at. the cem'nencsment of this century, we Honourable Friend who spoke-early in the debate. Sup•
find him sating that; six - weeks or, two months is the posing that the House has rejected the present Bill, and
'zest that any military men riapiret to make a s.dstier. that the Government ' will not-propose that plan of mi..
Now, these being the different ways in which a .Idlers are liiia which I sketched out at the commencemtnt of the
Matte; our Bill went on the principle of taking men of seetion (for, if that plan was pratiostd, I 'should
spirit, sec' of independent charecter, and asking them give rt,my support; from-whatever quarter it :night pro.;
without any bounty o become. part of the militia force °rodeos-being the best measure) I then have ti consider
'if the countey.-t(Elear, beer.) . But as this kind of .ser- whet: other-measures 'shOuld be adopted: I shotild say .
vice is a very,great hardship on the consenunity,,eesten ,that you cannot for .some peva Obtain a sufficient force
it as you will, seeing that .it diverts men from est* i
eetistoneret even by itiviag a discharge with a pension
the walks of induvry, we, endeavoured .to tem. to thote soldiers- who• have served foottern or fifteen
per its conditions with every soft. of alleviation that, years;: and Lebould -say it would be advisable to have a
we could devise. In the first place, we said we will force of tome 10,000 or 12,000 .embodied militia.' The
not take married men-we will not take men from , present Bill is not a measure for embodying militia ex-
'the 'age of 25 .to 35, roost of them, married mod cept in case of war or imminentdanger thereat but if
settled in life-but We will take.young men from 20 to you had 10,000 or 12,000 embodied militia in Great
21 years of age For the, first year we proposed to take Britain asad Ireland, 'drilled 'end diseiplitied, then you '
men from 20 to 23, but afterwards those only from 2. army.: oto have a force as setikeatiletfor the object in view as the
21.-(.(leer.) Tote 'made a
great limit, and corshisedregular But it might be said that if you haVe this
the ballot to a class of men who were sot seed,- din lite-, three, it would-be• at. the saints. expense as the regular
to theite who might andertake service. for a shoratime army, •and therefore Would it not be better to have
anti afteeWards ,engag-
e in industrial occupatieete-t- en increase of the regales army? I; however, think that
(Hear.) In the second place we weld, these men in or there would. be aegreat •advattaesi in baviog the ein.
dinar) circumstances should. not be waved out of, their I bodied milt:Jain preterenceeo an merease of the regular
)MI TI counties. We did iitdtpropete to toke them, to--aarmy. ,In the first plecet-the- itierease of the army it.'
distance; but, in the third place, we self this, that.-even • liable. to the objection that' if the army should be
in, the can of invasion, •or of eminent danger augmented by 10;000. men for one year; the next year
or inva,von, they shonll. b,a, t•-.ken for *ix mouths, might be a year of 'dietrett.
and then there wauld edge
or at most for tine year only. to defend, their .n great cry fur
economy, and we should be called on
a ,uutry.-(llear.) N,4, • chnehlering the egestA these for .the reduction of that force.-(Hear' hear.) Ido not
men, arid the time they were to en-rve. I. think! there believe, however, ii. You had a regular force of militia
was much of alleviation of hardship at three three &tun- such as 1 have mentioned, that the principle of the milt-
in t•te• ease of inva- tin would be a ande
&three; end that you relict exeeers P)- „,„e ---fe or that tem would be asked to
eien. that such men would n-it ehject to ,go for nee year reduce that:tome, unless
you had other means of de-
away front their homes, t have their planes then tape fence, Again. wheh you Inttrease the regolar .army, as
pired ny , ti- leg ilar -army, an 1 'After t atilt be.eilir ta re- greet part oi that nierease; 'unless you should ratite' pro-
turn and 'take to such trades and oceupeti 416 as they viseihs to thed contrary,
Would be sent to regiments in the
withal to tollow.-(Ctiee of ii their, bear.") So eon, colonies, 411.1 , perhaps, to colonies which do not require
iinced was lof the necessity of putting in conditions of further defence,i fine thus the
increased number Of the
this kind, and not resorting to the regular militia, soldiers.wotai d not be for the defence of the United
with its old form of ballot, that when the Noble Lard Kingdom. . urn. not for diminishing to a great degree,
the Member for Tiverton peopesed to resort to the the tore.ebmatrhained in: the colonies, but still the plan
old fern) of militia. I sitelersd at once I would
.be no adopted y theflat, Governinpdt. and which they were •
party to inireduciri thtt .mee.uret (tie's, hear.) I Ovid to tarry 'further might be prec-eded with; for in-
-01,4id it was leo slight or insighificeet al;.estatioe that wee siunce, you may die
tannish your force from time to time
prep •see to tho Hutt e, but a ctieuge ot the st,httle pun- in et Ma; ae o ;) a nit being military garrisons, and
el le ef the Measure, her, I e-ould not introduce it thereby
.someobtainmimd6,ooo'er 7,000 men for the defence
nays,l, at d- if mit due: dby another, that I could fed. sal the .Lnit . g otn- These, with the 10 000 mili-
.. , ,
' Hear, tie I have just referred to an , ,
myself ar liberty to oppeee the second resting, ( d the 4,000 men *posed.
b dded .to the •ar '
• lilt di cenenter ihtt measure .that, has
hear.) N•w , • been to e at. 03Y in this year, would make a
l 000 men in add' •
intredueed by she Governor- nt; it is is tn•. aaure worthy force o . : itton to the present force;
of our coo-id r -here beceuse it is the first coin from the -vi) that, insttad of tla '
, e 41.000 infiuitry rive in Great
eohien otfe from which the Nehle Lott'. at the heed of 8.-itain and Ireland,. We should have a force
she Government es'emed to think he woull (I, rive, such of 62,000.. . I thick that -we may then assume that-
great • rich-s. (A fau4h.) I Must say, however, that the 15,000Tensionere mayewithotic any great difficolty
in 'the present cete there is centiderable alloy, and that, be increased in n ) long time to 20,000, and SO by this.
tufo
he will hardly, fiad it of such v,,,iva es he supposes. meats you wou,
.d have me of 80,000 men; and I
C. Heir, hear, and a laugh.) In toe first place, this thihk, with the artillery and cavalry, you might Main-
measurel 'sett she atitiantagt. of ei,.her of the plinciples tato a force of about 100,00 men in the United Mole-
e hich I •heve enetAi ;tied: ' Whet I -ay hi, either form a dem.. This calculetiou is teased ,
upon the supposition
f tree that you can d 4 end uPnri hem their high spirit , that a certain amouintof embedied militia would. be este-
' and great lave of eeuntry,'or on whose enthusiasm and blished; and then theref i
•S
no part of the fu.ce. I have
moral energy you can relY; or elze form sohriera by mentioned-, ,:the whole o. which would be effective, which
dint of discipline ant curing from. what tieurce you get might not be used at any mrent, at the commencement
them - But in le tirttsetit of t kingdom: I believe, argot
one advantage list!' Ike other. la the first instances, ouefstfeell could be tendered e
more efficient by better an-
the motive you propose tie- entirely . mercenary. You rangentente with respect ter our military depotS. Those
reconimead that 61.- 'if bounty ehell, 'be . given. •to - who see the Rstimates of out-throes en paper do not cons
-
those who enlist. By offering , this
.61. you will eider, perhaps, that part o.f, thole. Lreee ' Consisting of
naturally get thesemen who ere most in !teat, she are small bodies of troops, and Sometimes the skeletons of
most needy, and who have the leset peospect of rising reginiants just.come horse, exhaustedm by the fevers and
'in the world, Or Obtaining' suai6at wage* or salary the unhealthiness of otherelt _ ates,ia hardly fit for any
to enable them to live in comfort.. 'Stich men,, no diaiht, tnilitary operatiensa the
but_lnk that a better' arrange-
'do'iniike• eicellent soldierst they are every, day mekieg enent of our depots, and giving them (as we under-
'ettcalleht soldiers; but it is because they are eohjected stped) officers, permanentiy attached to them, might
to the -disciPline of the army.--(Rear:.)
.'Wen a .man make.that part of -the. forte more efficient. .14 thii.
way
who 'indulges in -a 'restless disposition, sod. habits .of Lthiek.yett might obtain a mach larger. fore() teethe de•
idleness or drunketine4, is brought under the excel-, fence ()fiche kingdom than you have at present-. It appears
lent r discipline of the army, he is
.taught ,that when on to me that the -.United tKinedo is the 'citadel 'of this'. duty' he mutt=' be sober, when on gnard he
.ertuisttbe, great: empire, and-that therefore you. ought to take
vigilant, and that at all. times he must be ob6dient, 'Kid, moans to secure it-from 'surprise-and injury. 'lt has so
thug the restless' and unsettled young man of eighteen .happenedehat in _.the dangers to which. this country
becomes at twenty ' excellent en d• - h • ' Osed.the windaand storms have defended.
(Hear,,. an exce, eot en obedientbeena litt .; beer, p .
rs have
near.) What he becomes indeed has it and. that adverse invade been driven off b
f Seen ver late) • -
we ' ' 'I
b t that in. the case of -th
bray y yin the accounts have ot those the,force of gales,-but es,- u e .. e only in-
brave men who, when the unfortunate vessel 41 which vat-ion intended for 'the -happiness of Erigland-that of
they were was ' •
lyre rather tbe sinking, willingly sacrificed their own William 111.-the -elements favoured it ,In the present
ment h .
of others...email run the. risk of endangering the lives. state of science and, itnpdronvoe
lon;er owbirert an enemy
adiantage. . Raj' he
ar.) BUt yOu expressly avoid this' attacking our. shores weal
and we could Nava to depend-on
easily by Money fi.lrgunot the man, Wheel you can
.obtain . the favour of the winds,'
;t not be collectednot'say that shnie '
in the Bill to say he must
,e a settled inhahitent of any ',up, or 2,000 'men.prepared to till
each,
tee the chance of
.. place-having taken -•that maidrill him • st this•cottntry•-(Hears hear. )'• I
, you an..expedition -again ... for twenty-one- days. arid then let hits event Should ha .
Course to hia former habit -' on off to heve re- ,am persttadedeift suchen , pPen, that' the
. , a, awl -to r •la Se 'that 'it • • h '
i far thanmore t etimatediat 1• -;
unsettled and restless mode orlite that r.
' p into
t brave 53 they e oss'
enlietS--(lleer,- bear.) Thc, • first. induced him to that the .peopla of thiebOund
rYsi'n 'occurrenc are, would
strikes one is, that this he ee,44-ultercstion . which ' bee:ruck by so unexpeete the
~mi
„.tet and if - any.
seldler, and ' that 'Jar tthe, eeee ever' be a good long time should elapse before ; ni.ig force were
. yam calling dap...urea or .drivert•front 'oar shores,
that the epprehen-
him out to drills any day yeu
,ruts y probe entertained- . ' Engaged in comtnetee
is t?ly not ,itt,, by persteand.
find nisi-41-11/4,.a.r,.'h
l‘hat the as
-e -
- et htibite arid ppeceful pursuits would itemecetoe irreparable toes, flatting:.
want of
money that iodutes
,him tO. %9p in your bounty this persuasion„l was anxioa4 to' sec a good antasueeitf de=
his led him to go.sothewm.re
_.
Sett7;("V'tki Perhapa. inn- fe,nunia•ovided: But tarn extraauly sorry that the present
a reeletiey in Canada or ti, seryP, le reit:y
6.-",. iti the mi- Givernment havezebroaght ,forward a 'measure watch '
Arkanaas.-(11
litie of Illinete or %.
~,..".cl.'"s 1., t Olt 'fit.cttlSider
.soithjecaorpettle. ,It was'wY intentiehee heee,!
ask this floes;; is the!, Ea fore' tustall.,
.11t. ti :t.knii e 'ui.try
'•uPP"'eilhh- secret.). Matting cf thiSB'-11- I (.1 e.,ir .lisariH'
' ,Ett.. hear) New, 64PP'4.trg. that - ii, 1 ' ' 4gLeill-044.iSigatokp),...1 ':all
can sai,dy rely ?-(li i• • - • artu ..,- . ' a',LaPe thalpery,efeetOjlttit , •e , , . tt._ e
swite,3oo4o4ciikittinel•itta dt'tcttt-P
rtep-tirni'rs MA' -h'ople tliat it tailhi- gave been 'Amended in Con;mittee,
44.4 st4Koie 1:241. $4O-0044"4"cia4)4" o.= ttlo 1'14.33 4" ra44o 0 Diii tiotaillg 0 tbec=glitY of tip tots 4