The Sun.
London, England, 1864-06-07 00:00:00

OFFICERS IN THE INDIAN ARMY.

Colonel SYKES, on the motion for going into committee
of supply, moved :—" That the recent appointment of
employment (except in emergent cases) of officers
of the Indian armies with regiments to which they
do not belong, in suppresssion of the regimental
rights of the officers or usages of those regiments,
is contrary to the spirit of the Act 21 and 22 Vic. c. 106,
which guaranteed "that the military and naval forces of the
East India Company should be deemed to be the military
and naval forces of her Majesty, and should be under
the same obligations to serve her Majesty as they
would have been under to serve the said company,
and should be liable to serve under the same territotial
limits only, for the same terms only, and be entitled to the
like pay, pensions, allowances, and privileges, and the like
advantages as regards promotion and otherwise, as if they
had continued in the service of the said company;" and asked
the Secretary of State for India whether such appointments
had been approved by him.
Mr VANSITTART supported the motion, and said that
it was high time there should be a remedy applied to a
grievance which was now brought under the consideration
of the house in a temperate and logical form.
After some observations from Mr TORhENS and Captain
JEnvis,
Sir C. WOOD said that the whole question raised, the
importance of which he admitted, was under the considera-
tion of Government,and he trusted in a few days he would be
able make a satisfactory explanation to the house on that
subject. (Hear, hear.) He denied that the appoint-
ment of officers in the Indian army was regulated by any
principle except the efficiency of the officers who were
selected to occupy important positions. He contended that
in order to secure the preservation of our dominions
in India it was necessary •to increase the number of English
soldiers in the garrisons, so as to render us independent
of the native soldiering. In support of this argument
ha cited the authority of eminent persons connecte4 with
Indian affairs.

Sir M. FARQUHAR reminded the house that the right
hon. baronet had been warned of the impossibility of carry-
ing out his pledges with respect to the Indian army if he
was determined that no injustice should be d'..)ne to the
British army; and also that he had been "darned that if
the staff corps were established injustice must be done to
the other officers of the Indian army,
The subject then dropped.
, THE COY.FERENCE,

Lord H. LENNOX—.Sir, before you leave the chair, I
wish to ask my hon. and gallant friend the member for Lis-
keard (Mr B. Os.orne) whether he is satisfied with the
tenor of the r,ply which he received from the First Lord of.
the Treas.r_ry this evening ; for if he is, I venture to say my
hon. aril gallant friend is the only member of the house
who is so. (Laughter.) The noble lord and his Government
have all along discouraged any attempt to inquire what is
going on in the Conference; aad if complete secresy had
prevailed with respect to what was going on in the council
chamber, I should be the last person to undertake the re-
sponsibility of pressing upon the Government. or upon my
hon. and gallant friend, a course which would jeopardise
the interests of peace. But such is not the case. Although
her Majesty's Government are silent, the journals of Paris,
Vienna, and Berlin teem with news of what passes, or is
supposed to pass, in the council chamber in Downing-street.
It will be recollected that at the commencement of the ses-
sion the noble lord at the head of the Government and his
colleague in another place, night after night, were in the
habit of declaring that they intended to abide by the treaty
of 1852. Subsequently the noble lord announced, amidst
the cheers of the house, that the Conference was to meet
upon the basis of maintaining the independence and in-
tegrity of the dominions of King Christian. Well, the Go-
vernment of the noble lord and his colleague having over
and over again declared that they were pledged to that
policy, was of itself a sufficient justification for the question
of my hon. friend. I wish then to ask my hon. friend
whether he will give to the house an assurance that upon
an early day he will again call attention to this subject. If
he does he will meet, I am sure, with the sympathy of the
majority of this house and of the country, and will endea-
vour to elicit from the Government whether the statements
put forward by foreign journals are correct, that the Confe-
rence now only sits upon the basis of the annihilation of the
treaty of 1852, I beg to ask my hon. friend whether he
can give that assurance to the house.

Mr B. OSBORNE—I do not know what assurance I
can give to the house ; but before I give any I should like
hon. gentlemen on the other side of the house to give this
assurance, that in the event of my again reviving a debate
upon the treaty of 1852, I shall not be met again by a
movement of the previous question. (Cheers.) The course I
have hitherto taken upon this subject has met with encou-
ragement from the other side of the house. If lam asked
whether I am satisfied with the answer given by the noble
lord to my question, I have only to say that, although
gratified for the smallest favours, I do not feel exactly satis-
fied with that answer. For it struck title flora the very first
that this Conference was instituted more to preserve the in-
tegrity of the Treasury Bench—more to prevent the dismerae.
berment of the Ministry—than to preserve the integrity of
Denmark. (Opposition cheers and laughter.) And I would
put this to the house, that this Conference Is meeting—mark
you, not from day to day, as if the object of settling
the question ; but the month of July will speedily arrive,
hon. members will go out of town, and the question must
die a natural death. lam surprised at the reticence of the
house igen the question. Up to a certain point I think they
were right, and perhaps I was wrong in bringing it pre-
turely forward; but when we have arrived at the 6th of
June, and the question has been allowed to drag its slow
length along from day to day and week to week, I think the
house ought t 0 be put in possession of some definite infor-
mation. 'What is the position of the house and the coun-
try ? We sea the lowest inhabitants of the most minor ca •
pitale in Europe are informed by their newspapers of what
is taking place in the Conference. (Hear, hear.) We have
therefore what we believe to be our beat information derived
,mefro foreign nconst ewsPaPers; and it comes to this, that the
'ts of a Potions)
ernment are the worst in-
formed in Europe of what fatsking place in our own capi-
If I were to use the true
St and speak of them
ptahlr.aseliwowithlornegspi:ctthtiostthoegs: pOuroCeeding
as a farce, I should be called to order by you, sir, from the
chair; therefore I will not do so—(laughters_
but there
can be no doubt the house is placed in a most humiliating
monks of La
position, and that the house is being tricked into silence by
members of a Government who, like the
Trappe, have taken the vow of silence, (Lau
g-ter) Whe-
ther they are digging their own graves is another question.
But this I mast say, if we submit day after day and week
after week to be put off with these evasive answers, in vatic,
the noble lord is so great a proficient as to eminently entitle
him to that doctor's degree which he obtained the other
day, we shall not only be digging the grave of the indepen..
dence of this house, but the grave of our national honour.
(Cheers.)

Mr. DISRAELI—Great reticence has been preserved
in the House of Commons on these affairs. I hardly
know anything to be more admired in our Parliamentary
system than the reserve which obtains when it is known
that her Majesty's Government are engaged in important
negotiations upon which the question of peace or war may
rest. (Hear.) I think it is a characteristic which marks
it out from all other attempts at parliamentary govern-
ment; and is one of the surest guarantees for the endu-
rance of constitutional rule; but at the same time I must
say that, after listening to the observations, and accepting
without annoyance the taunts of the hon. and gallant gen-
tleman who has thus addressed us on the moving of the 1
Previous question—l having moved the previous question
on a former occasion, whenever I thought it was for the
interests of the country and due to her Majesty's Govern-
ment—l must say I was disappointed to-night in the answer
the noble lord gave. (Opposition cheers.) I think, in the
situation in which we now find ourselves, it would have
hen
set
utof her Alary, and it would have been wise and politic on
tpart ajestys Government to have shown more

andour and frankness than the noble lord bee shown to-
night. (Hear.) It must be remembered that Parlia-
mentary reserve under these circumstances depends on one
constitutional condition; and when that is observed, of
course the parliamentary reserve is perfectly intelligible.
The constitutional justification of the reserve of Perle.iiilent
is, when the Government is engaged in negotiations such
as these, that Parliament is acquainted with the principles
on which the negotiations are conducting and approves
of the general policy of the Government. (Cheers, Th&t
is a condition which has always been ackneevUdged, and
upon which the salutary system of penamentary reserve
under these circumstances is founded. Bat what the House
of Commons is now alarmed about—and lam sure Ido not
misinterpret the general feeling of the house on this mat-
ter—what at this moment agitates the house it, that they
are not convinced that the policy which was frankly an-
nounced by the Government before these negotiations com- ,
menced is the one they are now pursuing. (Opposition
cheers.) The hou.seancl the country have become anxiotuebee
cause they are not convinced now, and not eatishd) that the
condition of parliamentary reticence any longer exists or is
observed. (Cheers.) Ido not want to penetrate the secrets
of the Conference ; bat it has been well said by an hon.
member who has just spoken that there is not that reserve
in other countries in the sources of information. I myself
read the other day in a German paper an absolute account
of what had taken place in the Conference on the most cri-
tical day of that Conference, and that was not by way of
rumour or on dit, but it was given in the form of diplomatic
accuracy, and I have reason to believe, from subsequent in-
quiry, that it was an authentic document. (Hear,) Now,
although the House of Commons—those who sit upon this
side of the house—when these critical and important ques-
tions are raised, are more than ever desirous not to interfere
with the course of her Majesty's Government In these ne-
gotiations, it would be impossible for us, not wishing to be
pedantic, to acknowledge that we are ignorant of what took
place in a house within a few yards from where we are as-
sembled ; but there are rumours which reach us of an
authentic nature which are enough to disquiet and disturb
the house. (Opposition cheers.) We could net expect that
in negotiations of this kind the noble lord would give us
details of the course of matters which are changing from
day to day and from hour t 3 hour, still it would have been
satisfactory to the house if it had been informed by the
noble lord that these negotiations were not concluded, that
the Conference was still sitting, and would sit some time,
still the noble lord might inform the house that the princi-
ples of their policy were those on which the Government
entered into the Conference, and that he believed there was
a fair prospect that they would succeed ; and if they did not
succeed, at least her Majesty's Government would have an
opportunity of vindicating, as far as their opinion was con-
cerned, the policy which they recommended, and they could
appeal with confidence for the consent of Parliament,
(Cheers.) But when we hear, as we do hear, that the course
which they are pursuing is exactly contrary to the course
at first recommended—(loud cheers)—l say it is im-
possible to expect from an assembly with the popular ele-
ments of which the House of Commons is constituted, that
we should hold ourselves upon these benches with grim re-
serve, and not expect from the Minister, whom, leader such
circumstances all parties are prepared to trust, at least some
communication to guide and animate public opinion. There -
fore I much regret that the noble lord has not said some-
thing which I think the house had a right to expect of him.
I think the house has a right now, when the question in
agitation is necessarily a question of the suspension of hos.
tilities, to hear from the noble lord something as to their
progress. (Hear, hear,) It would have been satisfactory
to have heard to-night that which would have persuaded
us that what every man says of her Majesty's Government
is not correct. We should have been glad if the noble lord
had told us her Majesty's Government were not pursuing in
the Conference exactly the opposite course to that which
they announced to Parliament as the basis of the nmcia-
tions—(loud cheers)—by which announcement, allow me to
remind the house, they have obtained this parliamentary
reticence and reserve. It was not from indifference to these
great matters, but because such great public interests were
at stake ; and when the general policy expressed by the Go-
vernment was satisfactory to our convictions, and to the
conscience of the nation, it was our duty to be silent. I
must say the silence of the noble lord, and his tone tonight,
are such as to fill us with great apprehenzicn and anxiety.
At this moment, when a renewal of the suspension of hos-
tilities is in debate, it is due to Parliament that some an-
nouncement should be made, (Cheers,) We all know what
was the general policy of her Mrejesty's Government.. The
noble lord told us franie'iy, repeatedly, and continuously
that it was the pone; of her Majesty's Government to main-
tain the treaty of 1852, or rather I would say—describing, as
he did, the scope and tendency of the treaty of 1852—it was
to me.intain the integrity and independence of Denmark,
(apposition cheers.) That the noble lord has constantly told
us; and because he went into the Conference to do that, the
House of Commons has exercised, to my 'mind, wise and
parliaruentary reticence and reserve ; so that it could not be
said we interfered or threw obstacles in the way of a happy
solution of these difficulties. But if it be now true, as ru-
mour tells us, but which appears too incredible to accept—
that a Government who but five months ago were making
overtures to the Emperor of the Fret). h to stir up an Euro-
' peen war in order to maintain the integri:y and indepen-
dence of Denmark—(loud cheers)—if men with that policy
should be the same men who have at least succeeded in
ceiling together a Conference in order that they themselves
should accomplish the destruction of the integrity and in-
dependence of Denmark—(loud cheers from the Opposition
benches)—t hen I say that some explanation is due to the
House of Commons; and the noble lard may rest assured
that neither Parliament nor the country can lo ; g be silent
under circumstances such as these. No one wishes to inter -
fere with the course of Government if that coarse be a frank
one; but I say that no minister can come forward and ask
for parliamentary reticence and reserve during the progress
of negotiations who has not first of all fulfilled the great
condition of such parliamentary reserve, or expect such a po-
licy would be approved by the country and by Parliament,
If he follow a policy totally the contrary, it may be right
and justifiable; but he is bound to come forward when such
a change takes place, especially at a moment like the pre-
sent, when the continuation of an armistice for the suspen-
sion of hostilities is the question, and tell the house he has
made such a change. We might then be asked to continue
our confidence or signify our reprobation of his conduct.
Well, I should have considered that a wild hypothesis, if it
were not for the rumours—and, I fear, the accurate infor-
mation—that have reached me ; and I should have
thought it impossible that any body of men could have
'seen more deceived than the House of Commons. The hon
gentleman then proceeded to notice that the noble lord had
brought Europe, as it were, to witness his policy for the
maintenance of the integrity and independence of Den-
mark; and yet for two months he had kept that house in a
state of mystification. He had said that not only England,
but Austria and Prussia, wished to maintain the integrity
and independence of Denmark. (Laughter.) He had de-
clared that if difficulties arose, Denmark should not stand
alone. (Hear, hear.) That (continued the right hon.
gentleman) was satisfactory to the country. I myself, I
will not say tremble, but feel hesitation, when the great
question of war arises. I feel it is only when the great
national interests and honour of the country are concerned
that such a course is justified. The noble lord informed us
that Denmark sbeiAald not be alone, and we were told that
no diffieultfees would arise. Federal execution was then
imeere:eing. The house was prepared for that execution,
A:ad it took place. Then there was the passage of the Eider.
That was the great point upon which the house and the
country had fixed their attention, and there was a general
understanding that if the Eider was passed the Government
would take steps to vindicate their policy. The Eider was
passed, and other rivers were passed, and at last Jutland
was invaded. I ask the house to recollect the answer which
the noble lord gave to my inquiry respecting the invasion of
Jutland. He said the invasion of Jutland was an atrocity
—(cheers)—in a speech which must rank with those of great
public invective, and which wo must all recall to mind.
After all this, they talked of a Conference, and negotiations
were carried on. The house, notwithstanding theee disap-
pointmente—notwithstanding all these various circum-
stances, under which they had reason to believe the conduct
of the Government was far from satisfactory—the house
have generally supported her Majesty's Ministers. They
did that because the noble lord told us frankly, candidly,
and repeatedly that they entered into that Conference with
a definite object and a definite view, No one wished
to hold the noble lord down pedantically to a definite
engagement or definite details. All we wanted was, that
his policy should be maintained. We gave the noble lord
full credit for these assurances ; there was a suspension of
arms for a month. I myself hold that as a question of
great importance, having ventured to remind the house
that a Conference without an armistice, without a sus-
pension of hostilities, was generally fruitless and unsatis-
factory. Now the month is over, and, under any circum-
stances, were there no rumours of suspicion—were there no
cause which justified a man in thinking that was happening
which was not for the honour of England or Englishmen—
were there no cause existing which could make the House
of Commons suppose that the policy of her Majesty's Go-
vernment was changed—were everything as smooth as a
summer sea—were there no cause for anxiety and for dark
distrust in the public mind—still I maintain it would have
been the office and duty of a Minister on such an occasion, and under such circumstances as the continuation of an
armistice, to come down and give some account of the po-
licy and of the progress of these negotiations, to reassure
the public mind, and to give them some confidence in public
transantions. They ought, at least, to have reiterated the
conditions of the policy which Parliament had sanctioned,
if not by public vote, at least by their silence. The noble
lord, I say, ought to have been called to account, even if
there was no cause for anxiety, But if it be the fact that the
Government, in this interval, have entirely changed their
policy—if they are themselves perpetrating that partition of
Denmark which only five months ago they were stirring
up a European war to prevent—then I say it is a mockery
of this house for the noble lord, under such circumstances,
to remain silent. (Loud cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON rose to reply, and was loudly
cheered. He said—Sir, we have heard a magnificent display
of virtuous indignation. (Cheers, and cries of Oh, oh.) The
right hon. gentleman knows he is attacking ace in a posi-
tion in which I cannot enter into that defence which I
otherwise would go into. (Oh, oh, and cheers.) He is like
a man who attacks another with his arms tied, behind him.