The Sun.
London, England, 1852-02-07 00:00:00

fled to undertake sues a task, and he doubted
the expediency of creating a corporation for the
purpose. The first thing for such a body to do would
be to louk out for new sources of supply, and a new
mode of distribution. That in itself would be a heavy
task to cast upon it. He believed that such a body being
pressed by the ratepayers, and divided as they usually
were by different parties amongst themselves, would be
badly adapted to carry out such an important work, and
that great delay would arise in consequence. He was
more convinced of that fact when he saw the effect pro-
duced in respect to such a circumstance in other
countries. Last year the Committee went into this ques-
tion at great length, and it appeared that many towns
had given that power to their corporations. In Edin-
burgh, where the people were usually most attentive to
their own interests, and where the corporation had the
power to govern the water supply, they, notwithstand-
ing, abandoned it altogether in favour of a company.
Now, that was strong evidence that companies might be
allowed to undertake this task under a proper control.
Whether it be undertaken by companies or municipal
bodies he should be inclined to impose the same con-
ditions upon them—that the water should be approved of
by an inspector; that the mode of distribution should be
by properly-constructed channel-beds; and that the mode
of assessment should be under the control of that House.
He had seen large filtering reservoirs, at present in use,
which appeared to him to meet the requirements of the
Bill. The question really was, not whether Parliament
should allow municipal bodies to undertake the supply
of water, but whether it would proceed further and pro-
hibit private companies from undertaking it. Now he
(Lord Seymour) was not prepared to adopt that step;
but he was prepared to bring in a Bill to say upon what
condition the supply should be conducted by those pri-
vate companies. The great objection to private compa-
nies was, that they naturally looked to their dividends
and their own interests rather than to the interest of
the public; but he thought that if, inviting the comps-
nthicossetoßoilblstapinronpeewrthis House took care that in
classes were introduced to render
them, as he now Proposed to do, subject to inspection
and control, there would then be every security that the
public could require, and that so far as carrying out the
works were concerned, the existing companies would do
so with more efficiency and economy, and without being
so mush afraid of incurring a large expenditure of mo-
ney upon them, as municipal corporations would be.
The object of the Bill was in fact directed to the
interests of the consumer. It looked to protect the con-
sumer from a supply of bad water, from an insufficient
supply,the mode of charge, he hud obtained returns upon that
from
subjecfarnd from all extravagant charges. With regard to
the large towns in the country, and he
found that the mode of charge between them and the
metropolis differed greatly. He found also that the
Lambeth company, which recently introduced a system
cf chergo upon a new scale, had deemed it necessary to
abandon that scale and adopt another. On this account
he had not introduced any scale of rates in the Bill, nor
should he do so until further evidence had been fur-
nished upon the subject. He proposed, therefore, when
the Bill came before the Select Committee to take further
evidence upon the question of the mode of rating. There
was one method of supply which had attracted some at-
tention of late, and doubtless if the water could be dis-
tributed at a cheap rate, that plan would be of great ad-
vantage to
sufficient information to be certain that the method
the public. But he was not possessed of
referred to, and which was adopted at Croydon, would be
the best for the metropolis. The general character of
the Bill was that of a controlling Bill. It left the sup-
ply of water to private companies; and where they
would not undertake it, to public bodies; but whoever
undertook it, the measure provided that there should be
some inspection on the part of the public, and that
amount of control which would enable Parliament to
ascertain that the supply was ample in quantity, good
in quality, and cheap in price.
trt w
poas..
out at length the necessity
Mr. MOWAT T said it was his duty also to rise, and
ask for leave to bring in a Bill having partly the same
object as that of the Noble Lord, to wit, the better sup-
ply of the metropolis with Tester, and, further, a better
system of drainage. It
was needless for him to point
o
which existeddra draining,
in fgo. r some
T hThat
t eachw a s
umueausmuerenda:dthsyesotenme
ohfesudpepsliyreodf
wtouteirnftorordtuhcee.me
i agreed on all hands that very great necessity existed for
lie, and also ate amended system of f
admitted by every one. And, indeed, the fact of the
Noble Lord bringing in, as the Government did last
year, a Bill for that express purpose. relieved him to a
great extent from the duty of establishing the proposi-
tion. The essential difference between the Bill of the
Noble Lord and the one he (Ur. Mowatt) desired to in-
troduce consisted in this. The Noble Lord had very
properly characterised his Bill as merely a controlling
and permissive Bill. His (Mr. Mowatt's) provided ex-
pressly the same objects which it was the entire design
of the Noble Lord to provide for. But after giving no little
attention to the subject,he said unhesitatingly that this,was
notin anyway a question for the interference of the Govern-
ment, except so far as it concerned them to extend the
municipal institutions of the metropolis, and enable its
inhabitants to manage the supply of life for themselves.
His (Mr. Mowatt's) Bill was essentially a ratepayer's
Bill—that was to say, that the inhabitants of the metro-
polis who paid for the water, used the water, and were
alone interested in the drainage of the metropolis,
the of
should be the parties to determine sources the
supply of water, the system of drainage, and the mode
in which those two services should be managed and con-
ducted; in other words, that they should have the
management:of their own affairs in their own hands. He
proposed, therefore, to give greater facilities than now
existed to the ratepayers of the metropolis to take these
two matters entirely under their own charge. He would
first divide the metropolis into seventeen districts, and in
every one of these districts the ratepayers should have
the power to elect district commissioners for administer-
ing the affairs of the two services, under the direction
and control of a central commissioner, in their own se-
parate districts; that was to say, that they should be
in the position of bodies whose office it would be to
watch over and protect the local interests of the in-
habitants in each of those districts quoad those two
great services. He proposed that they should have the
power, in proportion
to th • mi. numbers and rating, to
elect boards varying in number, but in no case fewer
than nine, in order to ensure the requisite attendance of
members to carry on the district business. In like man-
ner ho proposed that the district commissioners should
have the power of electing from their own body a gene-
ral or central commission amounting in the whole to 41.
To that number he proposed to allow the Government—
should it think fit—to add four other commissioners—
ono to represent the Woods and Forests, inasmuch as
Crown property might be affected by the laying down
of pipes and other works, one to represent the Poor-law
Board, and the remaining two to represent other boards
which were also more especiany..
under Government
control. Thus, the Government would have a voice in
the working of the commission, which, of course, he
proposed should be incorporated for the purposes of the
Bill. To enable the commissioners to raise the neces-
sary amount of money for establishing an entirely new
system of water supply and drainage, and to keep in
effective working order the management of the two ser-
vices—powers would be given in the Bill to the commis-
sioners to rate the inhabitants of the metropolis.
Notwithstanding what the Noble Lord had stated,
it was obvious, he thought, that water was a neces-
sary of life, the supply of whicb, in a vast metropolis
like this, could hardly be made the legitimate occupation
of a mercantile company._(}lear.) And to him it was
a natter of surprise that the Noble Lord should not
have at once coma to the same conclusion, for all expe-
-1 rience showed that, however well they might administer
any other service prompted by their own legitimate in-
terests, this was a case in which they could not meet the
wants of the public. la Support of this conclusion he
would only mention the
known fact that all the me-
tropolitan water companies were originally, without a
single exception, created by Parliament upon the express
supposition that it would be for the interest of the public
that there should be a continual competition amongst
themselves for the supply of water. In almost every
one of their Acts the pretneble set forth as a condition
to their obtaining it, that there should be this competi-
tion amongst themselves,
and it was assumed, though
evidently without inquiry, that if there were that com-
petition,
the interest of the public would be sufficiently
considered thereby, But it hadlong
been found out
that the public had no guarantee or protection whatever
against the acts of the existing water companies,
though he must confess that it was much to the cre-
dit of those great bodies that they had treated the
public so tenderly and moderately in the matter of
charge as they had done.—(Loud laughter.) He did not
propose to insert any Prevision in the Bill with regard to
the source of the water supply, the particular system of
drainage, or the mode in which the sewage should be
disposed of—for the
obvious reason, that the commis-
sioners themselves would be the most proper parties to
decide upon these points. In all probability, as soon as
they found themselves installed, one of their first acts
would be to advertise for tenders for the best mode of
supplying water to the metropolis, the best system of
drainage, and the most advantageous and economical
method of disposing of the sewage. The Noble Lord
had cited some instances of what he termed partial or
entire failures in the supply of water by municipal
bodies in small towns. But in his (Mr. Mowatt's) opi.
nion these were not cases in point; for hardly in any,
instance were these municipal bodies so free and unfet-
tered as the commission which he proposed to consti-
tute under his Bill. With regard to the interests of the
existing water companies, whatever opinion might
be entertained as to the value of their property, they
would, under the provisions of this Bill, be entitled
to the maximum of compensation for any loss they
might sustain by legislation upon the subject.
And to provide the funds which would be requisite for
this purpose, and establishing works, he proposed that
the commissioners should have power to rate all pro-
perty in the metropolis at a sum not exceeding Bd. in
the pound in any one year, and to levy a further rate of
4d. in the pound for the current expenses of the two
departments of drainage and sewage. In the whole he
would limit them to a rate not exceeding Is. in the
pound for every branch of expenditure, including com-
pensation to the water companies. That sum alone
would be a great gain to the public, inasmuch as it
was less than the average rating of houses under the
present imperfect system of supply. The value of pro-
perty
in the metropolis rated to the poor was upwards
of 12,000,0001. sterlin and at Bd. in the pound this
would return a Sum ofg; 400,0001. per annum. To raise
the necessary amount of capital which an entirely new
system of waterworks and drainage, and compensation
to the old companies would involve, he proposed to issue
annuities, terminable or otherwise, for 20/. per annum,
which, being secured upon the rating of the whole me-
tropolis, would constitute a favourable investment for the
public, and by this means he anticipated the capital
might be raised at about 3/. or 41. per cent. The
association with which he (Mr. Mowatt) was acting had
been led to connect the sewage of London with the
supply of water for reasons which would be apparent
to all; the two questions were closely mixed up one

with the other, and in point of fact the question of ob-
taining a large supply of water neeetasarily included the
question of how they wore to get rid of it ante use. Jo
conclusion the Hon. Gentleman moved for leave to bring
in his Bill.
Lord EBRINGTON presumed that both Bills would
be submitted to LI Select Committee.
Mr. MOWATT—No.
Lord EI3RINGTON—Was the Government Bill
alone, then, to be referred to it?
Mr. MO WATT—Yes.
Lord EBRINGTON then proceeded to say that he
was surprised to hear that the principle of competition
in the supply of such a prime necessary of life as water
should be still adhered to by the Government. The
House should, however, carefully consider the conse-
quences of adopting the principle of Mr. Mowatt's Bill,
and inviting the ratepayers in general to decide, by
popular election. upon a question which required so
much scientific knowledge and such deep study and
calculation as the planning of a proper scheme for sup-
plying water to the metropolis. He could imagine, how-
ever, that Government might, with the various means
and appliances at its command, advantageously lay down
a general scheme in the first instance, to be afterwards
worked out by a popularly-elected body. Upon this
point, therefore, he was at issue with Mr. Mowatt; but
the view which that Hon. Gentleman had taken and
proposed to carry out upon the subject of uniting the
consideration of water supply and drainage, was infi-
nitely sounder than the view taken by the Government.
With regard to the Bill of his Noble Friend (Lord Sey-
mour), it seemed to leave every important question to
which it was directed for the determination of a Select
Committee; so that the inhabitants of the metropolis
were left in ignorar ee even of what would be an approxi-
mation to tan rates which were to be charged upon
them; of the limitations which were to be put upon the
overwhelming power of the several water companies,
from whose administration London had suffered so long
and so grievously. In several towns the piping of the
water supply had been executed at a rate of under 10s.
per head of the population, while in Manchester, not-
withstanding great quantities of water were required
for manufacturing purposes, the expenditure was only
10s. per head of the population; and he considered
that in the metropolis a saving could be effected
in that respect which would enable an ordinary dwel-
ling-house to be supplied at the same rate as that now
charged by the water companies for supplying a single
room. The House had reason to complain that the
measure of the Government was proposed in such a
crude state that it should be referred to a Committee.
However, when he had seen the clauses he would take
another opportunity of referring to the subject.
Sir G. GREY said the Hoe. Gentleman (Mr. Mowatt)
obj-ected to the scheme of the Government, and as he
had paid great attention to the subject, he had embo-
died his views in a Bill, which he had asked leave to in•
troduce that it might stand side by side with the Govern-
ment measure. It was hardly fair of the Noble Lord
(Ebrington) to object to everything and propose nothing.
He wished the Government to appoint a Commission
to take the whole subject into their own management—
a course to which the Government had strong objec-
tions, which he (Sir George Grey) had stated last ses-
sion, and the Noble Lord had not embodied his views in
a shape with which the House could deal. He (Sir
George Grey) bad stated last session there were pe-
culiar difficulties in the way of applying the re-
presentative system to the subject in the metropolis;
but that was a fair question for the House to decide, and
not a Committee, and let the House decide between the
principle of the Bill of the Government and that of the
Hon. Gentleman. But as to the Noble Lord's objection
to referring the Bills to a Committee, the Noble Lord's
own experience must tell him that Bills affecting interests
of a mixed character must, according to the inflexible
rules of the House, be referred to a Committee.
Mr. SLANEY said that two points ought to be in-
sisted upon in the measure which should be adopted—
, one, that the supply of water to the houses of the hum-
bier classes should be obligatory; the other, that those
who had the management of the sewerage should have a
sufficient command over the supply of water for the pur-
poses of perfect drainage. He was glad to find that the
first point was made a matter of obligation, and he
trusted the second would likewise be so.
Sir J. JOHNSTONE approved of the general prin-
ciples of the Bill.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bills.
VENTILATION OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. OSBORNE moved that Dr. Reid be called to the
bar of the House and questioned as to the means at his
disposal for ventilating the new buildings. Next to a
supply of good water, a supply of goof air was neces-
sary, and he was almost inclined to bring in a Bill for a
better supply of air to that House. He had strong ob-
jections to referring the matter to a Committee; for
three Committees had already sat on the subject, and
the inquiry had evaporated in a report, and that was all.
As he wished to take a brief course, then, ho proposed to
call in Dr. Reid, and propose to him the six following
questions:—Was there any impediment to the due end
properawsion of his plan for the ventilation of the
House? Could he state what those impediments were,
as a matter of fact and science, taking care not to enter
into any of the differences between himself and Mr.
Barry? What were the defects? Was it in his power
to remedy those defects? What were the remedies?
Could he name any house where the plan of ventilation
was at present in existence the same as he proposed for
the House of Commons?
Lord SEYMOUR objected to the motion. He had
himself asked Dr. Reid what the impediments were, and
he had answered that there were impediments thrown in
the way the last five years. If Dr. Reid were called in
to go through a statement of all the impediments, and
should make recommendations which would involve
architectural alterations, it would be necessary that
others also should be called in; and the better way,
therefore, he thought, was to refer the inquiry to a Com-
mittee, who could prepare a statement for the House,
with which it could deal.

Mr. HUME hoped the Noble Lord would not object
to the motion, which was a reasonable and absolutely
necessary measure. What they wanted was something
immediate, and not to wait until a Committee had made
a report.
What they wanted to know was, who had the
direction from the Government of the ventilation of the
House? The Noble Lord said it was Dr. Reid, but they
did not know that it was. Who did ventilate the House?
—(Laughter.) They knew it was not ventilated. Was
it not strange that the Commons of England should be
so treated? Two hundred thousand pounds had been
spent, from first to last in ventilating that House, and
see the result!
Mr. BROWN stated that a friend of his had got such
a severe cold in the House the first night of the session
from the strong draughts of air in it, that he was con-
fined to his bed since.
Lord D. STUART urged the propriety of calling in
Dr. Reid, who. could explain all the difficulties in the way
in ten minutes
Lord J. RUSSELL certainly did not think the venti-
lation of the House quite perfect. At the same time he
did not think the question quite so simple as Hon. Gen-
tlemen supposed. They might ask Dr. Reid, and he
might explain in ten minutes what he considered the
cause of this defect, and what he wished to be done.
But the remedy he proposed might be in Mr. Barry's
opinion destructive of the architecture of the House
and of the character which belonged to it. It the
House on hearing Dr. Reid should decide on adopting
his plan at considerable expense, perhaps then it would
be necessary to hear Mr. Barry us to whether he had
any objections, and those were questions which would
take up some days to consider, and it would be far
better that the matter should be referred to a Select
Committee.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said, if the House heard Dr.
Reid it did not necessarily follow that they should come
to the conclusion to adopt his plans. The ventilation
was certainly very imperfect, and whoever's fault it was
Dr. Reid bore the blame; and the Hon. Gentleman op-
posite was right in moving that he be called in to ex-
plain. Perhaps the Lion. Gentlemen would re-consider
the wording of his second question, as it might have a
tendency to extend farther than was perhaps intended.
Mr. BRIGHT said that every Committee that had
been appointed on the subject had been baffled by some
influence or other. The chief management of the ven-
tilation appeared to be uncontrolled by the House. He
was not quite sure that Dr. Reid would produce any
amendment; but, as the proceeding contemplated by the
motion was a new one, he would support it. If Dr.
Reid were called to the bar he might strike out some-
thing as a remedy, and afterwards a Committee might be
appointed. If they went on as they were at present—
it was net the Government merely, which some were
desirous to destroy, that would be put out of existence,
bat there would be neither Government nor Opposition
at the end of the session.
Atter a few words from Mr. SCOBELL,
Mr. NIOFFAT objected to the motion,.. and a
san
amendment, moved an appointment of a Select Com-
mittee.

The House then divided, when there appeared :
For the motion ••• ••• 55
Against it „, „, 24
Mai linty ..• —3l
The motion was accordingly agreed to; and
Dr. Raid was called in, and appeared at the bar.

In answer to Mr. OSBORNE':
Dr. Reid stated that he had been entrusted with the
ventilation of the House, and that there had been several
impediments thrown in the way of the working of his
plans. The first impediment had taken place in 1846,
when the plans laid down for the ventilation of the
House were subverted, and notwithstanding these plans
had been supported unanimously by a Committee of the
House, and he had been placed with respect to the
matter in the position in which he had remained ever
since, no decision had ever been made since the period
to which he (Dr. Reid) referred es a consenting party.
In reply to further questions, Dr. Reid stated that the
practical difficulty arose from the fact that the area of
boundary taken could be architecturally, but not pe
11
nautically defined, inasmuch as the cold air notna
shut out. The evils the House was subject Was
'et to, there-
fore, were the currents of hot and cold air that played
throught it. On the first night of the session so strong
had been theso currents, he said, that the doors were
torn off; and, consequently, as the House stood, it would
be as unreasonable to ask him to control the winds that
blow over the Bay of Biscay as those which rushed
through the passages into theno House. That was the
fleet difficulty. The second arose from the innumerable
chimneys in and about theme, which were con-
stantly elaborating carbonic acid asln fact, the Hutu() sat in an atmosphere of
carbongic. acid gai; at that mo-
ment, as these chimnTetle
s were pouring their products
into all the passages. third evil arose from the
light'. He had been informed that the lights would be
ventilated; but if any gentleman went round the corri-
dors he would see that not a single light
-la fact, to sit in the House was precisely was ventilated.
sitting above a gas lamp. There the same as
were other points, but
.
these were the most important Fifty members of the
Royal Society had examined his Dr. Reid's) plan for
ventilation of the lighting of the House, and approved

r of it. To the old House no gas lamp would ha permitted
until he s,ave nn opinion. In the present
opicioa was overruled. These were the wain points;
I but, as he had said, there were others which he would
not enter upon at that moment.
The LION. MENLIER having asked Dr. IZ id whether
he hsd any remedy to propose for these evils, and if so
what remedy ?
Dr. R-id stated that he would provide; in the first place,
a means for excluding the outward atmosphere, as was
done by double doors at the Bank of England and in
other establishments. In the second he would provide
for the exclusion of the products of combustion from the
various chimneys of the House. In the third he would
instantly build a brick wall round the drains which now
contaminated the House with their effluvia. He would
next give the House protection ag dust the smell of the
kitchen, which was quite perceptible at the bar, where
he then stood. In two days be would put the House in
a condition for the Members to sit comfortably in it, if
he was permitted. For fifteen years he had done what
he could to have a pierced floor, but he had failed in this
House. The floor was contaminated with a thick oil,
most offensive and oxydating, and injuring everything.
He had spoken to Mr. Barry on the subject; and Mr.
Barry's answer was, that it was used by the Admiralty.
It was therefore impossible to work the effectual venti-
lation of the House with the means at his disposal. At
present, in the galleries, there was a vast mass of heat on
the brows of the Members from the lamps, and it was
most dangerous.
Asked how long it would take him to remedy theso
defects?

Dr. Reid said the greatest and worst defects he would
undertake to remedy iu two days, without in any way
interfering with the architectural plan or arrangements
of the House.
To the inquiry of how much lie thought it would cost?
Dr. Reid could not say exactly, but he thought, per-
haps, about 2001. or 3001. In continuation, be stated
that he could refer to one hundred places at least, in
England, Scotland, and Ireland, where his plans were in
successful operation; but he would select St. George's
Hall, in Liverpool, where the ventilation was based upon
the plans of 1846. He had worked those plans for a
we k before 3,000 psrsons, and they were perfectly suc-
cessful. They were the same he would have worked in
that House if he had not been prevented.
Asked whether he had proposed his plans in time for
the architect to act on them?
Dr. Reid replied that he had, and that they had been
(as was understood in the gallery) so acted on. They
were proposed by him in 1834.
In reply to further questions he said that in two days
he would, if supported as he had been by Lord Besbo-
rough, undertake to render the atmosphere of the House
supportable; and that he was quite ready to put on paper
all that was required on the subject.
In reply to Mr. BRIGHT,
Dr. Reid said that the lighting had been taken out of
his hands, and that he, therefore, could not enter into
detail on the subject ; bat he did not consider that the
waste-tubes for carrying off the air destroyed by com-
bustion in these lamps sufficiently large. The conse-
quence was that steam was evaporated and water con-
densed. He should most certainly make an alteration
in the ventilation of the lamps—similar to that which he
had made in Buckingham Palace, when the lamps had
burned badly for want of ventilation. He was ready to
submit his plan before Monday—indeed he was ready
to submit it on the moment, es ho had always been pre-
pared for an emergency like the present.
In reply to Mr. SANDFORD,
Dr. Reid said that the ventilation of the lamps in the
corridor would effect a great improvement in the at-
mosphere of the House. There were eight doors in the
passage, and the products of combustion were continually
pouring into the House.
In reply to Lord H. VANE,
Dr. Reid stated that his present plan was the same
as that which he had been stopped from carrying out in
1846. There was nothing to prevent him from carry-
ing it into execution if the House ordered it and he
was adequately supported. He had accumulated re-
sources all along to carry it into effect in contemplation
oi' being called en, as he was that night. One of the
principal points was the equalisation of the temperature
in ;he House and in the passages.
To questions put by Sir B. HALL,
Dr. Reid replied, that he could put the House into a
state of better ventilation, if he received the power to do
so, before Monday.
To questions put by Mr. BROWNE,
Dr. Reid answered, that he could not put the lighting
into the same position in the same space of time, but he
could palliate the present evils arising from it.
In reply to Alderman HUMPHERY,
Dr. Reid said ho had had between 4,000/. and 5,000/.
for the ventilation of the House of Commons since 1845.
For an expense of some 7,000/. he could build, warm,
and ventilate a room, in which the House could sit with
comfort and all the Members see one another. He could
not, of course, decorate it for that sum.
In answer to Lord SEYMOUR,
Dr. Reid said he proposed to put the gas lights on a
better footing, beginning with the galleries; to put all
the chimneys that were now pouring torrents of smoke
into the House on a better footing; to build a portion of
the vaults under the House where there was a drainage
smell, and to consolidate his materials for ventilation in
a chamber with a concrete floor beneath the slates, not
as at present, with nothing beneath it.
He was then ordered to withdraw, and he withdrew
accordingly.
Mr. HUME, after what ho had heard, proposed that
Dr. Reid should be requested to place on paper his
specific remedy, and tho cost of the same, to the end
that those Members who were not present should be
made acquainted with the plan.
Sir B. HALL suggested that, under the circum-
stances, the wish of the House being known, it would
be better to leave the matter in the hands of the Noble
Lord (Seymour), who was the responsible officer in the
case to Parliament. The Noble Lord was aware of
what was desired; and an expenditure of 2001. or 3001.
could not be a question for consideration when the ob-
ject was to make the House comfortable.
Lord SEYMOUR was of opinion that it would be
best to print the minutes of evidence from the short-
writer's notes in the first instance. As regarded the
responsibility he would rather not undertake it, as he
doubted when the 3061. was expended, if the House would
be satisfied.
Mr. HUME thought it would not be fair to cast the
responsibility on the Noble Lord in the matter.
Alderman COPELAND was understood to complain
of the ventilation of the dining-room of the Bane.
Sir G. S TRICKLAND agreed that as Dr. Reid had
been perfectly successful in ventilating the old House of
Commons they should at once give him the powers he
sought, and allow him until Wednesday to carry his plan
into execution. He should, therefore, propose a motion
to that effect.
Sir G. GREY thouguhetstiitb.
mr. E. oa better that the evidence of
Dr. Reid should be printed before the House came to
any decisioonsßonthNe gon
le was afraid that would get rid of
the whole question, as the difficulty would be in being
able to bring the subject again before the House. Having
the advantage, then, he was desirous of keeping it.—
(Laughter.) Mr. Barry had been intrusted with a very
large sum for the purposes of ventilation, and he could
not see why Dr. Reid should not therefore be trusted
with the sum of 300/. for the same purpose.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that Mr. Barry was responsible for the building; but it
was now proposed to direct Dr. Reid to do that which he
thought fit at a cost of 3001. The House did not know
what Dr. Reid proposed to do. It might possibly inter-
fere with the plans of the architect. It was therefore
better to make some inquiry before tney proceeded fur-
ther in the matter.
Mr. E. B. ROCFIE complained of the offensive and
injurious atmosphere breathed in the House, and said, as
Dr. Reid had proposed to remedy the ventilation without
intertering with the architectural arrangements of the
building, they should not, as rational men, hesitate to
empower him to do so. He should, therefore, propose
a motion to that effect.

Mr. HASTIE seconded the motion. He bad never
sat iu such a cold house in his life. Last year Mr. Barry
had authority to spend 10,000/. to 15,000/. on decors,
dons. Why should they hesitate to give Dr. Reid au-
thority to spend 3001. on ventilation now?
Mr. HUME said that, as men of business, they should
have Dr. Reid's plan before them in the first instance.
He, therefore, asked the House to wait until then:
Mr. :NE WDEGATE could see no difficulty in the
adoption of the auggestiost of the Hon. Member for
Montrose.
After a conversation in which Mr. Gould, Mr. Tre-
law:iey Alderman Humphery, Mr. Ewart, Mr. Hinclley,
and Alderman' Copeland took part,
Mr. NE W.DEGATE, in order to give Dr. Reid an op.
portunity of testing the practicability of his plan, moved
FirstortCtoln:Eaimssi:ontoerthef
as an amendment, " That the
Woods and Forests should be instructed by the Houseo
to get from Dr. Reid his plan for the improvement of the
report
th e amendment.
ventilottion of the I!)tuAseN,Dansdectoorird
ht that this would not afford the
HousemA irL.;eiorinmuaMAnioEcn dotahlyjoE. u g
means of judging to those Members who were not then
present.
BROWNE said that the lighting and the venti-
Mr.
latmiorn. siihuoullidEgohop,dthe
together.
N
his proposition that the minutes of a
evidencefLord w u would wprinted.
w
The
tenHatANlCinEisLt,LsOß, of the EXCHEQUER ob-
servedbreatho a bad atmosplere were
het hought it was for the HOLIE
work in a business-like manner.s
than
noetthoeafro
!iy n more o
Members,re
Commonsto go to
anxious
but
to
everythiug could have been got in order in a brief
It was impossible that
j period. He admitted there was much that was wrong
that required setting right, but if Hon. Gentleman would
exercise a little patience, those inconveniences insepa-
rable from getting into a new House would disappear. It
was the duty as well as the interest of the Government
to make the House as comfortable as possible, and the
subject should certainly not be lost sight of.
After same more discussion,
into with
a
Mr. B. OSBORNE said he was perfectlysatisfied
the result of his motion. They had got much informa-
tion from Dr. Reid, and had brought the question
focus. Lie wished the evidence just heard to be printed,
and then would renew the subject next Wednesday. It
was necessary to act with firmness on this question, and
t o take the bull by the horns,
beenfvfo errtehte a Hbeo
sixteenufisneai
,soehaue:d,sh ought
in two
reweroi
still
reluctant unfinished.
ta
years, ol 1 ct thatan they the nowhad
already Houses
gomit gr.thNnEt
wprpocErsus,rilinrdEvizes
withdraw his
amendment.
to.
read a first
TThhee Samuietnodrsmeinnt Ch.nasntcle)eryn Reliefpu t and
Bai agreed
s
time. _

The Water arid Draicage Metropolis Bill was read a
fiist time.

The ;louse adjourned at Nine o'clock.