The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-31 00:00:00

Right Hon. Gentleman could prove such a state of things as i Mr. B. COCHRANE said it was a common thing for
he argued had existed in America ? Did the House think Hon. Members who introduced a motion to imagine the
that if open voting had been established there that intimida. presence of some distinguished foreigner in this country,
tion and bribery would be checked? It was the simple and to ask what opinion he would form of their proceed-
fact of a disturbance having occurred in New ings. The Hon. Member who introduced the present mo-
York, which might have taken place anywhere, that tion had supposed the presence of some foreigner at our
furnished the Right Honourable Gentleman with an elections, and had asked the House to imigine what opinion
argument against the ballot. When he said that the Go- he would form about them. As such a foreigner would
vernor thought it advisable to recommend the Legislature to require a cicerone, he would advise the Hon Member for
take measures to put a stop to bribery and corruption, he Bristol to recommend him, if he wished to .obtain a know-
should recollect that there was not one word uttered with ledge of our electorial system, to take for his guide the
respect to the inefficiency of the ballot.—(Hear, hear.) He celebrated Coppock.—(A laugh.) The Hon. Member for
would now read a letter which he had received from an Ame- Bristol had congratulated the House on his present motion
rican gentleman of great respectability. (The Hon. Gentle- being opportune. He took a different view. In all the
man read the letter to which he referred. It described the discussions of this question of the ballot, he never heard
destruction of a ballot- box at an election riot, in one of the the reciprocity of the ballot started. He should like to
states of the American Union, and concluded with the fol- know what their constituents would think if Members were
lowing passage:—" Tho destruction of the ballot-box will to resort to the ballot in voting in that House. If any
at once point to the fact that it was held in no great estima- candidate at the next election should make such a proposal
tion by the promoters of intimidation and bribery; and I he thought the distinguished foreigner would soon see that
think I may venture to make the calculation that we shall the popular view was not in favour of such a poposal.
find that our local Legislature will pass a stringent law on the America had been referred to, as it often was, by Hon.
subject of bribery, and recommend that in future the voting Gentlemen opposite; but America was a republic, and we
urns should be located in:a place of more security.") ( Hear.) were living under a constitutional monarchy. If the Hon.
It was highly probable, he thought, we might hear at no Gentlemen wished to see the result of the ballot and
dista It period that other disturbances had arisen, and that universal suffrage in America, let him read the report
other ballot-boxes had been broken up. In the Carolinas, for of a late debate in Congress, and he would find an
instance, in Alabama, in Maryland, and Virginia, the ballot- interesting controversy between a Mr. Brown and a
box was the protection of those who wished to do away with Mr. Willcox, which ended in Mr. Brown rushing up to Mr.
slavery_( Gear, hear.) In those States the ballot-box pro- Willcox and knocking him down.—(Cries of "Oh.") There
tected the advocate of emancipation from Lynch law. In was another point of difference between the two countries.
the ballot-box in the Southern States: had taken root the In America, before a Member could propose any change in
benign principles of Christianity, and from the ballot-box the Constitution, there must be a majority of two-thirds of
rushed forth the glorious truth that, of whatever colour Congress in its favour, or a majority of two-thirds of the
the skin of a man might be, in the eye of God his soul was states; and after being proposed, and before it could be car-
but of one hue. (Hear, hear.) When, therefore, they saw ried into execution, there must be a majority of three-fourths
the enemies of the abolition of Avery desiring to put aside of the states in its favour, and not, as in this country, a mere
the ballet-box in America, and when they saw also those majority of votes. Reference had also been made to France.
who wished to keep Englishmen in serfdom declining to give Was the Manchester school satisfied with the result of uni-
them the protection of the ballot-box here, then he said a versal suffrage in France?—(Hear.) Were they gratified
very strong case had been made out, and that a case entirely with the proceedings of the 2d December, and with the re-
in favour of the ballot.—(Cheers.) The arguments used cent inauguration of constitutional government at the
against the ballot were merely colourable, and gentlemen Tuileries ?—(Hear.) The ballot had been described in better
opposed it, not because they doubted its efficacy, but be- language than any he could use by an Hon. Member of that
cause they believed it would be perfectly Vficacious.—(oh, House. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon's
oh.) He was strongly brought to this conclusion by read- opinion—he meant his former opinion—(A laugh)—of the
ing an account of a large Conservative meeting, which took ballot was stated in the debate on Mr. Grote's motion in
place the other day in the city of Bristol. That meeting 1842. On that occasion the Right Hon. Gentleman charac-
consisted of a very influential body of Conservatives, who terised voting by ballot as inconsistent with the English
had met to select a candidate in the place of his Honourable character, and added that no honest man wanted the
Friend and Colleague (Mr. P. Miles), who had expressed his ballot.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Gentleman
intention to retire from the representation of the city at the went on to state that the only persons to whom the ballot
approaching election. The chair was taken by Mr. Vining, would be available would be "dirty, hypocritical scoun-
a gentleman of great respectability, with whom he (Mr. drels."—(Laughter-) Lately, however, the Right Hon.
Berkeley) had the honour of being acquainted, and the son- Gentleman had expressed at Carlisle opinions not certainly
timents which fell from that worthy gentleman were strictly favourable to the ballot, but very much softened compared
Conservative, at the same time that they were full of can- with his former opinions; and he added that circumstances
dour and redolent of the most Arcadian simplicity.— might change his convictions on that point. • Not content
(Laughter.) By way of illustration, he begged to quote a in 1842 with stating that only "dirty, hypocritical noun-
short extract from Mr. Vining's speech, which he had taken drels" needed the ballot, the Right Hon. Baronet went on to
from the -23riatol Ciazette.-=.41r.-Vinieg mad: .. What is the state that it afforded an opportunity for a man who pretended
use of registration if a man is to vote by ballot? And what friendship to practice deception—that it offered a means
is the use of inquiring how a man is going to vote when he for the gratification of revenge and bitter hatred—and that
may conceal that vote by the ballot?"--(Laughter.) it was demanded only by the most contemptible sort of vaga-
" Why," said Mr. Vining,
." a man may register one bonds, merely to lend to a lie the appearance of a truth.—
way, and vote another!" Now, perhaps Honourable (Laughter.) One could not improve upon such language,
Gentlemen were not au fait in discovering the meaning of and it would be difficult to string more epithets together so
that expression. It meant simply this, that political expressive of bitter contempt.—(Cheers.) In his (Mr.
partisans paid defaulters' rates—and churchwardens were Cochrane's) opinion they might as well try to protect voters
adepts at that practice—and thus secured the insertion of from the east wind as from the influence of landed proprie-
the man's name on the register, one of the modes this which tors. He was in favour of open and manly voting, and was
were resorted to of bribing beforehand.—(Hear, hear.) opposed to a system which would result in a tissue of false-
" Why," said Mr. Vining, " a man may register one way hood. That evil was powerfully touched on in debate by
and vote another," " Suppose," continued Mr. Vining, one now no more—a great ornament of that House, and
a you give a man 51., he may receive the money and vote whose loss they all lamented. In the debate on the ballot in
another way.—(Laughter and cheers) You are making a 1842, Mr. Sheil admitted that the ballot would enable a
man disguise his real sentiments and meaning. You are man to promise his vote one way, and go. to the poll and
making a man determine to conceal his sentiments. If I vote the other way.—(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition.)
purchase a man," said Mr. Vining, " and I am not able to He confessed that he felt surprised to find Hon. Gentlemen
know how he is going to vote, he may vote against me, opposite cheer that sentiment, because it was one which
though he has said he will vote for me.—(Great laughter would justify the most flagrant political demoralisation.
and cheers • and Voices.-.`That is what we want; you The Noble Lord the Member for London had not thought
would not then have us under your thumb.)"—(Laughter proper to introduce the ballot into his recently proposed re-
and hear, hear.) " Gentlemen," said Mr. Vining, waxing form scheme; but he did not feel certain that the Noble Lord
a little warm, "I feel that the majority of you are might not hereafter pass into the lobby, in conjunction with
with me e now then, I will ask, let us oo• operate cor- the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon, with the
dially in supporting true Conservative principles— (Loud supporters of the ballot. He (Mr. B. Cochrane) looked upon
laughter) and promoting the welfare of the State," the ballot as a most objectionable measure. It was easy to
said Mr. Vining "and our own interests." point out anomalies in the working of the British Constitu-
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) There, then, was a candid tion ; and the writings of the French Socialists were no doubt
Gentleman, and he (Mr. Berkeley) would be equallycandid. filled with the finest theories. But no attempt had ever yet
What were the faults which Mr. Vining found with the been made to carry out those theories which had not utterly
ballot ? It would ruin his politico-commercial transac- and ruinously failed, while the British Constitution had for
tions. Poor injured gentleman ! When he had bought his ages given to the people of this country an amount of
man, it would be altogether doubtful whether his living bale security and of freedom such as no other nation had ever
of goods would be delivered to the consignee.— (Laughter.) enjoyed.—(Hear, hear.)
It was not because the vote was given in secret, but be- Mr. COBDEN said he would promise the House that he
cause the Si. note was sunk in the ballot-box.— would not trespass at any length on their time in dis-
(Hear, hear.) With regard to the ballot not stop- cussing a question which had already been more exhausted
ping intimidation, why it was a farce to argue the subject. in argument than any perhaps that had ever been brought
The fact was that Gentleman refused to trust the people. under their consideration. It was an historical fact that
They believed that the tendencies of the people were de- Mr. Grote, in the course of his discussions on the ballot,
mocratic. But in his (Mr. Berkeley's) opinion such had brought to the subject a degree of logical power
a feeling as that very much resembled the feeling of a man and mental acumen, which:had gained for his advocacy of
who supposed that under the foundation of his house there the measure the most perfect intellectual triumph
war a subterranean fire, and that some day, by some con- ever known.—(Marks of dissent on the Ministerial benches.)
vulsion of nature, a crater must burst forth in his kitchen.— He (Mr. Cobden) did not mean to discuss the fallacies
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Noble Lord the Member which had been put forward by the Hon. Gentleman who
for London (Lord J. Russell) told them the other night, on had just addressed the House. He would not seek to point
bringing in his Reform Bill, that he thought the people were out to that Hon. Gentleman the difference which existed
entitled to some reward for their exemplary conduct. Yet, between a Member of Parliament who came voluntarily
unfortunately, the Noble Lord was one of those who denied into that House to represent the opinions of others, and an
to the people an act of simple justice.—(Hear.) The Legis- elector who had merely to give effect to his own individual
lature had defined the franchise, settled the electoral quali- opinion. That difference was one of those points which had
fication, and invested a man with the privilege of voting. already been demonstrated. Neither did he intend to discuss
How, then, in the name of justice and of common sense, the thousand-times repeated objection of the Right Hon Gen-
could they refuse to protect the elector in the exercise of tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer—that if the ballot
his chartered rights ?—(Cheers.) They who refused to were given to a limited constituency it would convert
trust the people now, did they refuse to trust them on the that constituency into an oligarchy; for that objection had
10th of April, 1848? If the people were so ill- been already a thousand times answered by this argument
disposed then as they were represented to be now, where —that if the unenfranchised were fit to dictate to the en-
would Hon. Gentlemen be at this moment? On the 101 of franchised, they ought themselves to be entrusted with the
April, 1848 (continued Mr. Berkeley), you appealed to the right of voting.— (Hear, hear.) But Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
people pro aris et focis, and they stood at your thresholds site were the very people who refused to extend to them
armed, and were cherished guests at your tables and firesides. that right. The intellectual mode of dealing with that
But when I ask von to give them the means of voting as question had already been triumphantly settled.—(Cries of
they please, and to trust them with the use of the franchise, "Hear, hear," from the Opposition Members, and "No, no,"
you deny it! In conclusion, the Hon. Gentleman observed on the Ministerial aide of the House.) But he
that, although be was wedded to the principle of the ballot, thought there were moral aspects of the question,
he was not equally so to the details. All he asked was, a which could be better argued at present than they could
fair trial of the ballot. If Parliament liked, let it be per- have been when Mr. Grote had dealt with the subject 17
missive.—(Hear.) Let it be adopted only in those cases years ago, because they had since had an opportunity of
where it might be demanded by a certain number of the witnessing the effects of the ballot in the elections of a
electors, and where the constituencies numbered 1,000 voters neighbouring country, under the most exciting circum-
and upwards if they pleased. But, at all events, he hoped stances, which showed the immense gain this country
the House would permit him to bring in a Bill to give pro- would derive from the ballot by the suppression of that
tectiin to the electors at the polling-booths, and, in so doing, fearful demoralization and violence which disgraced our
perform an act of abstract justice to the people, and at the elections. He said that the example of France, as regarded
same time do honour to themselves.—(Radical cheers.) the moral aspect of the question, was conclusive. Six mil-
Mr. BARROW said the Hon. Gentleman who had just lions of people had voted in France in one day with universal
spoken was rather unfortunate in having alluded to the last suffrage and under the most exciting circumstances ; and yet
election for South Nottinghamshire; for the fact of his (Mr. their votes had been given under the system of the ballot
Barrow's) standing in the House- of Commons at that mo- without the slightest tumult at the polling places, But
ment was the best possible proof of the absence of intimida- how were elections conducted in this country? Why, he
tion on the occasion to which he referred.—(Cheers.) He could point out half-a-dozen places in which, although a
tknew
assistanceth at , iin part,
ofm
shoeoe wegdenhaiesmtcewshs thatoatwerelv
tehleecmtsioenteos few hundred people only had polled, the most violent
scenes had taken place. In the Isle of Wight they had
friends of the vote by ballot - not because they sought it had an election, accompanied by the most tumultuous pro-
for their own sakes, but because they believed it would be a cudings, and ending in the death of one individual. At
protection to their friends and neighbours. They were well Boston a gentleman had been imprisoned in his own house,
aware of his sentiments with respect to the ballot when they from which he had not been allowed to move. At liar-
gave him their votes, and he felt perfectly satisfied that they with, before the election had terminated, the mob hal
would give him credit for the honesty of his principles at stormed the hustings, and had carried away the materials
least, in venturing as he did now to declare that he was not of which they had been constructed. What had happened
a convert to the necessity of the ballot, and that, so far from the other day at Enniskillen ? About 150 people had polled
believing it would deliver the people from a state of serfdom, there, and such a riot had taken place that the armed police
he believed it would increase bribery and demoralisation to had to be called out, and had charged the mob with drawn
such an extent as would be positively frightful to con- sabres. Those were the scenes which occurred at our elec-
template.— (Cheers.) Allusion had been made to the tions. But it was said that there had been a tumult at an
advantage of the ballot in the clubs. But for his part, he election in New York. Now it should be borne in mind
confessed that a large portiere of his objections to the ballot that all the New York journals had been horrified at that
were the result of the ill-feeling he had witnessed in clubs fact—that almost unprecedented fact, and had declared that
in cases of black-balling. He had seen so maple mischief those who had so interfered with the most sacred right of
arise from it that even in those cases where, through the American citizens ought to be shot like dogs. But was
honour of the scrutineers and members, perfect secrecy was that the language which was held in this country with re-
observed, he had come to the conclusion that spect to similar scenes? By no means. The cases of
the system had better be abolished. He was Harwich and Boston were laughed at, and the case of En-
rather surprised to hear the secrecy of the ballot niskillen did not even excite a passing remark.. That House
assumed as a matter of necessity. In proof, however, of had passed a great number of Acts to put an end to bribery
the fact that it did not secure secrecy, he might refer to that at elections, and they were at present considering a Bill for
country which had already been referred to so often, and in constructing a tribunal that would deal with future acts of
which the ballot had been in operation for the greatest bribery. The effect of the adoption of the ballot in this
length of time. He did not believe that secrecy ever had country would be to repress those outward demonstrations
been or ever would be obtained; for he found that in Massa- of opinion which led to so many collisions. It would put
chusetts. one of the oldest states of the American Union, the an end to the system of flags and banners, and brass-bends,
Legislature appointed a Committee last year with the express and to that drunkenness and disorder which at present
object of considering in what manner they could secure disgraced our elections.—(Hear.) The public mind was daily
secrecy under the ballot. And, surely, with such an ex- becoming more and more favourable to the adoption of the
ample as that before him, he might be allowed to doubt ballot, because there existed a growing conviction that it
whether that secrecy which was assumed as inseparable Id offer the most effectual remedy for the evils and
from the ballot really did exist.—(Hear, hear.) With re- abuseswu by which our elections had hitherto been accoraapa-
ference to the ballot as a cure for bribery, he thought nied. Auother question which had been raised was whether
he heard the Hon. Member for Montrose say not long or not they could make the ballot effectual ; and it was said
ago that he did not believe it would diminish bribery in that it had not been found so in New York. But he be-
small constituencies, at least; and if it would not diminish lieved that a plan had been devised by which it could be
bribery in small constituencies, then he (Mr. Barrow) wanted carried most successfully into operation. The Legislature
to know how it was likely to do so in large constituencies, of Massachusetts had appointed a committee two years ago
because a large constituency was, after all, only an aggregate to inquire into and report upon the best mode of making
or mass of small constituencies, and bribery might be car- the ballot more eflactual, and the plan recommended by that
ried on in one as well as the other.—(Hear, hear.) Upon committee was one, he thought, of the most complete and
this point, too, he would again refer to America, where the
satisfactory character. They had proposed that the Govern-
Legislature of the State of New York had declared that bri- ment should provide adhesive envelopes of a certain form
berg had increased, and was carried to a fearful extent, for all the electors, that those envelopes should be given to
under the ballot, and that it was necessary to take steps for the electors on application to the proper officer, that the
providing a remedy. Being convinced, then, that neither voter, after having written the name of his candidate or
intimidation nor bribery had diminished under the operation taken a printed ticket with that nano, should place it in
of the ballot, he must frankly admit that he was still op- the envelope, then seal the envelope, and deposit
posed to the measure. He believed it would be productive it in the ballot-box in the presence of officers
of an amount of hypocrisy and demoralization perfectly appointed Cobden) be-
frightful to contemplate; and that the best remedy for the lieved that that plan afforded a perfect security for secrecy
evils complained of would consist in elevating the moral tone and a perfect security against fraud; because all that had to
of the people. The fact that the independent constituency for the, purpose. He (Mr.
be done was to take care that the voter placed one envelope
of South Nottinghamshire had carried his election against only in the ballot-box, and any envelope that was not pro-
the influence of the powerful body who were opposed to him
erly filled would be afterwards cancelled. That system
individually would of itself also tend to the same result. had been adopted in Massachusetts, and had there been found.
Sir B. HALL granted that the case of South Notting- perfectly successful. But there were landlords in this coun-
p
hamsbire was a remarkable instance of the people having
try who would not be very scrupulous in exercising their
exercised the right of voting in opposition to the will of the power of coercing their tenants. The Noble Lord at present
aristocracy. But it should not be forgotten that at that elec- at the head of the Government had declared, in the month
tion the Noble Dukes and Noble Lords of that county drove
of June, 1837, that if the ballot were adopted, he, as an
the electors up to the poll to vote against the Hon. Gentle- English landlord, would feel it his duty, not only to see
man just as they might have driven a flock of sheep. Al- whether an elector who, was a. dependent of .his voted, but to
though the yeomanry of Nottinghamshire had come forward see him put his ticket in the ballot-box. Now he ( Mr.
and carried out their object so far as the election of the Hon. Cobden) should say he thought that a more unabashed act
Gentleman was concerned, yet that was but an isolated case,
and formed no reason why voters in other parts of the coun- benchas)—a more scandalous outrage against the rights of
try should not enjoy the protection of the ballot. With re- citizenship could not possibly be conceived than that a land-
ofelespotism—( Loud cries of" Hear, hear," on the Opposition
re-
gard to the borough he (Sir B. Hall) represented, it was lord should insist on seeing a man as honest, and, perhaps,
impossible, from the circumstance that the constituent
numbered more than 20,000 electors, that corruption He would tell the Noble Lord who
.was at present
could exist.— (Oh, oh, and a laugh.) The election previous at the head of the farmers' friends, that he
y as intelligent, as himself, put his ticket in the ballot-urn.
to his own in that borough did not cost the candidates (Mr. Cobden) and those who agreed with him
more than 30th/. He was inclined to think that the riots upon that question would protect the farmers against
referred to as having occurred in New York had arisen,
such an inquisition; and the plan adopted in Massachusetts
not from the voting being by ballot, but from would set at defiance the prying eyes of the Noble Lord or
the maladministration of the election law. If Hon. Mem- of any other landlord. On another occasion Lord Derby
hers wished to see the operation of the ballot in our own had declared that he considered the tenantry of this country
country, he would refer them to the annual parochial elec- to be the political capital of the landlords—(Hear, hear)—
tions in the parishes of St. George's, Marylebone, and St. and it would be for the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor
Pancras, which were conducted with the greatest order and of the Exchequer to defend, if he could, the language of the
proprietor. He should not detain the House longer as there Noble Lord upon that subject. On the 22d of February,
was a motion en the paper for the assimilating of the eon ety 1841, the Earl of Derby (then Lord Stanley), in speaking
and borough franchise, which Hon. Members anxious for a on the Parliamentary Voters Bill, had said it was known
that any man could ascertain the probable result of a
the opinions o
dissolution werfe
i‘iemhe desirousr
s shouldon on one side
discussed,
as well
asni otrhdee r
ether that
county election, by finding out who were the great landed
copiers under them. B.ut was it right, he (Mr. Cobden)
should be known. proprietors in the county, and counting the number of oc-
oannda
would i,sk, that the farmers of this country should be alto-
tance.—(Renewed cries of ' Divide.)' ether deprived of their political rights, and that
question of such importance.—(Renewed , .
when they
gelectors bof
~
DMivaidNeV..” WHIeLeLoInAIdM
By a return made i'n 184, it appeared that 214 boroughs,
nSotrousnedearsnitaidnsdtsuccrhieisntoefr;‘pOtillo'n"
were made aaium er faggot votes should merely
withl6l 500, returned 329 Members to the 1 dl d ? 1 y
with a constituency of only , .
be handed over an or s ( fear, hear.) He be-
-ah
• of that House. It was notorious at the con- lieved that the farmers of England would not be prepared
majority
to
t aristocratic parties in this country for hold the franchise upon such a condition;
flicts of the two grea
and if they
depended entirely on the amount of money spent in should be so lost to all shame, he felt persuaded that the
power
elections. From the report of the Committee moved for inof this country would not submit state
operatives
1811 by the He • effleld it a ea ed that
n Member for Sh , pp r of things. He would mention a fact,
the Harwich election c05t.8,3001., t g .
hou h there were only 1 showing the feeling of the operatives upon that feet'
187 voters, and that the Nottingham election cost 16,0001, After the introduction of the late Reform Bill of the l4oble
though only 673 electors voted.—(Cries of " Divide.") No Lord the Member for London, which would extend the
fewer than 85 Acts had been passed by Parliament to pre- franchise to Si. householders, to that three-raarths of the
vent corruption and bribery. His belief was that the ballot operatives in the manufacturing towns in yorkshire and
was the only remedy, and he should, therefore, give the nio- 1 Lancashire would become entitled to a vote—after the
Cell his corditil atlPPOrts i introduction of that Bill a crowded public alevtiPC bad been
- .