The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-05 00:00:00

T. TIR-,...
.... ._ SIT.W.,:i.' ...,. --..? 11.0 /4.P.0)L,i

litia Bill he should be best maintaining the interests of-
peace; and that the true Principles of peace would be
best carried out by making this country strong, and
by saving it and the whole civilized world from the
ruin and misery which would follow if the greatness
and civilization of England were destroyed by a hostile
invasion.—(Hoar.)
Mr. CLAY sincerely thought that this country was
never so little exposed to an invasion as at the present
moment; but if he were told by military authorities that
he was wrong in this opinion, then be asked what were
the best means of defending the country? Nov, he had
not heard one of those military authorities in that
House heartily support the Bill as affording the best
means of defending the country; and an Hon. and Gal-
lant Admiral, who spoke the other night, thought the
best means of defence was by the organization and in-
crease of our naval force. He thought the Government
would act wisely in encouraging the formation of vo-
lunteer rifle corpe; for their organization would intro-
duce among the people a military spirit and feeling of
self-dependence, which would constitute the best gua-
rantee for the defence of the nation.

Otnaher
eao of ships and of men employed upon
)ooh. He hoped, therefore, the House would
hot listen to any plea of secrecy. From the speech
of the ann. and Gallant Member for Westminster (Sir
,n
Lacy Evans), it would appear that this country was
better defended and had a stronger disposable military
Otter even than France. Look at the garrisons which
sl.as necessary to keep up in that country—that of
"4.15 with 70 000 men, and 83 others which required
troops, and then' take into account the irregular gen-
-artaerie; and it seemed that France had not at her dis-
posal 160;000 men available for any purpose of invasion.
ptAfter 18.35 and 1836 the- regular force of the army,
"oltvY, and. ordnance was for seven years 121,842. This
year It was 161,592, being an increase of 40 000 men
over the of force during the Duke of Welling-
d°l4l Government." Our artillery and engineers had been
tsoltled during the last seven years, of which he did
"aiPlain. Their number wae 8.000 during fusedto
With prance,
und now i':. was 15,000. Oar na
the
of 26,000 or 27,000 seamen and marivnyeA underwe
e Dake of Wellington's Administration. Now
14114 44,000 seamen and 3 yet we were told
the marines, and
is country was not adequately defended. In the year
44 the Dake of Wellington took the alarm, and a coin-
teissioti loaf appointed to inquire into the
Hastings
state d of the
moil-defences Captain Sir T.
/isritceid the whole. coast of England, North
from the
tat end: to the Land's-end, and they made a report.
b when the Gallant Captain was under exausioadon
YCommittee upstairs he stated that no official
nationi.nfor-
h:,iia bed been laid before him that induced him to
offi.e that there was danger of invasion. The Gallant
heee (Major Beresford) wished the House to believe,
8 ful'etve were able to land at New Orleans 6,000 or
e(3O men, when we had five or six days to do it in, and
ere masters of the sea gall the time, that 60,000 men
on
eld be landed the English coast when we heel ships
lock after them.--(Hear (llear, hear.) How could 60.000
too be %fleeted and thrown upon our shore without
ear obtahiog some information of their coming? He
ligretd with the Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) that the
eci.untrY would have some intimation of the danger from
tab" Press, from commerce, or from diplomacy, and h,e,
The Commission
With him in calling this an o ignominious panic.
rahenedeer
en
on the National Defences had rccom-
hae , outlay of 2,500,0001. or 3,000,000!., which
till:raise:ens? laid out in improving our harbours and coast
, but which money be believed. had been entirely
wn sway. Then, in addition to steam-basins and
three defences we had a regular force of 161,000 men,
and an irregular force of 54,000, as had been shown by his
~,iturn, making in all upwards of 200,000 armed men.
441 o there was the city and metropolitan police, 8,780;
toe rest of the police force in England and Wales, 2,749,
!!Ici 12,000 Irish t baler • waking together more
Latta
trop'2oooo men, cre'hnos,aaddedYto' the regular and irregu-
-15 s constituted altogether a force of 237,517 men
..,. are_ • A force o
565 "4" to the service of their . country.
$ 00 men would be amply sufficient for colonial ser-
vice ice- and
that would leave 180,000 men avilable for the
nee- of their country. The Duke of
side. But if
Wellington's
aet
°°ritY had been quoted on the other
EIY claimed the Noble Duke as their authority, they
°tight to
adopt his remedy. The
.Duke of Wellington
deceu.ostnetided the Government to raisekiann organized and
Iplined force for each of the three gdoutors.
roeut to that maintained during the late w
petty and
eretalthine
Zrernment were content with proposing this.
paltry force of 80,000 men for England, leaving Scotland
sod
sea .
e Wand unprovided for. There was no panic. in the
th,,t4Y- It was only the late and present Ministries
ela; Were panic-stricken. The Chancellor of the Ex-
. quer, in his able and eloquent speech on Friday, said
It e,
unwise to impose a tax to which the feeling ot the
damtry was
same a .
.opposed. Let the Government act in the
eb. pint with regard to the present Bill, which was
tirtictiable to the great body of the people. If_ the
ki should not be passed the hop and advertisement duty
gilt be repealed to-morrow.
h sun CIIARTERIS said he wished to take that op-
rorta •
eoeßonity of expressing his astonishment at the self-
eo-17.en_t m.anner in which the Hon.. Member for Mon-
te,•
and his friends enunciated their opinions on mili•
ten3t'kmatters.—(Elear, hear.) Any person who listened
hose gentlemen would suppose that they not only
thabtoPolised all the intelligence of the country, but
kee,otheY likewise monopolised all its professional
oge. In the year 1803 Mr. Wyndham had made
of,'which many portions were extremely ap-
sloe to to the present state of that question. He had
of r that they had been told daily of the impracticability
di:sissioll by many eminent lawyers, by many sound
rees-eeeB' ,ftianY country gentlemen,. many respectable
retta-",is, many intelligent manufacturers, and
the " very handsome women—(A. laugh —while
h only persons from whom they did not
get
ptwtt opinion were our soldiers and sailors.
tala‘"eo- Charteris) confessed that he did not feel the
ter! confidence in his own judgment on military mut-
rt:ilistaawhaitetehrene those gentlemen eppeared to feel. In mill-
was disposed to bow to the opinions of
Imbecipmen without attributing those opinions to the
hoar,e 4' of age or to interested moives.—(Hear,
He believed that the gentlemen who opposed the
sup I.°ll fcir going into Committee on that Bill were not
$1 orted
/ public feeling out of doors.—(Hear, !learn.)
bar er,,° 'night be petitions against the measure; but e
tee__ ed that a large portion of those petitions referred.
t° the compulsory clauses than to the Bill itself.
%tiny° the statements in the press, and from other indi-
thet-n (4 public opinion, it was reasonable to conclude
ties 'Leeling of insecurity prevailed on the subject of
epic defences. Ho hoped they would go into
earthittee on the Bill with '„as little delay as possible,
sew r,atilte it as complete and effective a measure as they
bQr (HearHE LLdissented
hear.)
M ITC from the statement made
4..1ee late First Lord of the Admiralty, tbat our navy
ta"mes employed to a great extent in defending our com-
boreee- With respect to the question more immediately
toe re the House, he would prefer an augmentation of
I:,regular army to the embodiment of the militia, and
I.4.oelieved that the House of Commons would never re-
al:eteto maintain an amount of force which the Govern-
tip the declare on its responsibility to be necessary
tioraue defence of the country. The Right Hon.
othe:ti the Chancellor of the Exchequer told them the
to night that their direct taxation should be extendedi
eon_ classes of people. In that principle he entire y
diocc.surred; but the proposal now before the House was
oiu,otlY. opposed to such a system. Suppose it carried,t,
mils Lord with 100,000/. is year, it drawn for f
W ilts,' would find a substitute at a cost of say 101,
50& fi Man employed in a factory, and earning only
his a Year, would have to pay exactly the same sum for
hear, substitute, if he wished to provide one.—(Hear,
ti ) l`low this he called gross inequality and injus-
4. But ; •
rato,e 1 , instead of 80,000 militia, they. were to
,t, en addition of 20,000 men to the standing army
hop) expense of which might be paid by adding one-
ii`t,per cent. to the income-tax—the working man
tne
Wettid have
was extended to incomes of 50/.,
Lard nave to pay 53. for the increase, while the Noble
he
wftld have to pay 500/ —(Elear, hear.) He looked
end the coat of oar national defences as an insurance,
it
atteUl Was just that the amount paid by individuals
th. dbe in proportion to the extent of the property
14:I had to be protected. The Bill before the House
fehr,egarded as fraught with injustice, and therefore he
alt himself bound to give it his most decided opposition.
1,4,r• COWPER said the amendment before the House
• suPported by the Honourable Members for
ATI Pirest Riding and Montrose, because they ri
a.!culed the idea of a panic on the sc,bject
. invasion, and believed such a thing eo be
o'n_Possible. Now there were two ways in which
:18ion might be possible. It might be ph) sically r,od ma-
!en% to, and that was a point which shoulel be de-
fied on military and naval grounds. Or the
.:tondition
et foreign countries and of Europe generally might be
such as to prevent invasion being-
vias aattempteo and this
point which might be judged of by politicians,
It was one on which the Honourable Mee fiber for the
West Riding and his friends might very properly
give their opinions.—(Hear, hear.) Brit the Hon.
Itetlaber for the West Riding was char. saed with the
'dea of having his opinion on the militar y
question placed above that of the Duke of part of the
Wellington.—
.E
ear, hear.) As to the Possibility (if an invasion,
novrever, he thought the House could my look to the
made the winch.
tews expressed by those men who had
emunlonarkat
e'es and practice of war their study, a, d who were ac-
eustotned to the embarkation and d ise
ieu
authority uf
bOtree
P"---(Uear, hear.) Almost ever y
~ declared that there was no such i mpossibility in_
iasion as the Hon. Member and his friends supposed.
W,,ut only the Duke of Wellington, but all the great
had
who had served under him, and also those who
Bpi )e affil
officers
osnllsyn. t o thennn
11-11 cl been engaged in more recent wa re, were of this opi-
iiiitherry
°ll.--(flear.) And they could
of English but of Frenchf o •
suggested that
th°tt Member here read an extract rom thesu pamphlet of
(stele',„,l)rhice de Joinville, in which, he
seamen might be employed for let %ding troops in Eng-
nourable
g -railed subjecting this country try all the " losses and
trebaeo,-°_ge" of war; and then a sked the Ho
toutr for the West
confidence in the forte ~erance andcivilitybe
Of vr ence Ridin g whether he had
lettranch officers as to suppose that they would
of the blo had
coorhle of doing that which a
Y nd deliberately Pro
Ittit e 'te shore tat the
00,1 hot steamers start from t opposi
appear
p prince
e d — (Ilear, bear.)
et sn'encereent of the night, ar el before morning
more e part of our coast, an burn and destroy 9ne or.
the ho our seaport towns, tc ► the great humiliatlon of
of
itee:ionour and dignity of Eagland?—(flear,
that
t
mould reference had been made to the defence t
liso„ti, he made by our navy;, but, though he hod the
hear. )
Ott: iniblicit reliance on the valour, skill, and liuccess
e a°
Y—atid though he believed it never was more
treat e," then at the present o:lament—yet he won Id not
I"ee 'tie defence of the country to one description of
oa
bow, Y; he would rather have two strings to his
Judd that the one could be used if the other wits in-
why mist nanaged.—(Hear.) If Hon. Gentlemen
Of penliPcsed ti measure consulted the naval 'oefficers
emcee:boo, they would find that every one of those
pos,ibsi was con vinced that invasion of this country was
the H e•—"(tiet sr, hear.) It was therefore absurd te, tell
the. I.°llse that the ides of invaaion.was visionary, v awn
of I;l,Yinsi all 'the officers, not only of this country., but
eurnroe, declarieg that it was a thing of possible ac-
eceort 18hinchte—(llear.) It had been declared the t this
en trY was insufficiently defended, and if the of weal-
heo.,; ° the present measure should succeed, would itnot
titte:tendencyteedecy to lead foreign powers to make the
in th,?!.to it evade it?—(Hear,) Tnere were some tt pingstimet't.lllll (if which he did not approve; but at the tame
would‘ would give each an increased force as ha thhught
Dresai l'isco the country iu a state of safety, and hes.i.m.
fore, 4)110 Ins, that the mere establishment of the' militia
Wass e_. led secure the object they had in view„ which
(It w prevent an invasion being even attempt .
tar.)
Th West wd- and
others, se. e Hon. Member for the
14, te„ , y eTed to imagine that they would best
btu
,Zeore rthe :mtnishing try; the military forces of the cc it
_ht
were two ways in which peace might be I°,°L
ather.ire was by submitting to aggressors, Pa;°:3:lCloiut
(pir I being strong
J He 00u enough toovercome tl enO—
s-4ear, hear.,
eTed OW by supporting tt A 9 Mt'

Lard PALMERSTON and Mr. WA .LEY rose together,
but the latter gave way in consequence of the general
calls for t• Lord Palmerston."
Lord PALMERSTON, who was greeted with cheers,
then said—l can assure the House that I shall detain
them but a very few minutes. I should not have pre-
sumed to address them on •t his Subject in the present
stage of the debate, but, laving been alluded to so fre-
quently by soma lion. Members, I cannot reconcile it
to myself not to say a few words in reference, I
can scarcely say in answer, to what they have
lan done
me tho honour to euy. The only reply c
make to the assertions of my Heneurable Friends is to
meet assertion by counter-assertion—(Hear, hear)—and
their denial of my opinions by an equally strong denial
of theirs.—(Hear, hear.) The only answer they made
to my observations on a former occasion was to express
surprise that those observations should have fallen from
me, and to declare their confident belief that they were
unfounded. The Hon. Member for Manchester and the
Hon. Member for the West Riding are firmly convinced
that an invasion of this country by the forces of France
is utterly impossible, and, believing that to be impossible,
they think it the height of absurdity for this country to
make any preparation to guard against an impossible
event. I think, on the contrary, such an event in cer-
tain cases possible, to use no stronger word, and I think
it the duty of the country to make preparation to guard
against such a danger.—(Hear, bear.) The country will
judge between those Hon. Gentlemen and me.—(llear,
hear.) It I sin wrong, and if _the advice I give is fol.-
lowed, at all events the country is safe.—(Loud cheers )
if they are wrong, and the advice they give is followed,
the country may be ruined.—(Renewed cheers.) They
dispute authority; they will not receive the opinion
of officers of great experience, of sailors who understand
their profession, of men who have practically faced the
danger, which they call on this cautery to provide
against. These gentlemen, whose habits of lite have
been conversant with the peaceful arts, with manufac-
tures and industry, who know nothing of • war or the
chances of war—(Cheers)—who know nothing of the
means by which war is carried on, or by which it is re-
sisted—these gentlemen wish to lull the country into a
feeling of security, and to prevent it from taking any
means to provide for its defence.—(Cheers.) But they
have disputed the English authorities. We have heard
just now from an Hon. Friend of mine that the opinion
of foreign authorities correspond exactly with those of
the English authorities. But I have heard an opinion
expressed by a very high foreign authority bearing upon
tins question. I have heard, and I believe it, that the
late King of the French, when he visited this country
after that dispute which arose upon the question about
Tahiti—and it is not inopportune or irrelevant to
remind the House that upon that occasion, when
this country was on the point of being engaged
totally unprepared in war, that the men who were
the loudest in those declamations that were likely
to bring on a rupture were the very men who
are now preaching peace —(Great cheering from the
Ministerial side),—I have heard, I say, that upon that
occasion the King of the French, rejoicing in the peace-
ful termination of that dispute, said, however, that he
had been told by his generals at the time that if a rap-
ture had taken place they would have undertaken 'that
within a week they would have been in London.—
(Hear, hear.) That may have some weight with those
who despise the opinions of English generals and ad-
mirals.—(Heer, hear.) Much misrepresentation, Sir,
has occurred of things that have been stated by those
who agree in oar opinions in the course of this
debate. My Hon. Friend a former Secretary to the
Admiralty is supposed to have stated that the French
have in the Channel a force stronger than we could at
the present time muster there. My Hon. Friend did not
state that. What he said 1 apprehend was this—that the
French, by dee means they have of easily and quickly
transmitting from the Mediterranean either the crews et
the vessels they have there, or the ships themselves,
would have the opportunity and means, within a very
short period of time, of placing in the Channel a su-
perior force than we in the outset of the war should be
able to collect.—(Hear, hear) I have been supposed to
say that the expense of 15,000 regular troops would not
be greater than that of 80,000 militiamen, and
I think my Hon. Friend who made that allusion just
now seemed to mix up with this question the expense of
tho ballot. What I said was this—that the annual cost
of maintaining 80,000 militiamen during the 20 or 28
days they might be trained and exercised would not be
greater than tho expense that might be incurred of
maintaining 15,000 regular troops all the year round,
apd it was my opinion we should contribute better to
our contingeet means of defence if we had the power of
calling out 80,000 men within a week than by adding
15,000 to the regular troops. But my Hon. Friend
chalk lige(' me to say when this House had refused to
the Government the force which the Government
thought necessary for the defence of the country. For-
tunately this House has not yielded to those very ener-
getic appeals we have heard from my Hon. Friend the
Member for the West Riding and others, to reduce the
very limited force which we have deemed sufficient,
from time to time, for the immediate emergencies of
the service.—(clear, hear.) But I would put it to
them what would be their expectation of success of
a motion of this kind, if the Government had pro-
posed an addition of 20,000 or 30,000 men to the
regular army, and at' the end of two years they bad
been able to say—" You obtained this force under the
panic of invasion; there has been no invasion, and you
ought no longer to continue an expense which experi-
ence has proved to be wholly unnecessary?"—(Hear,
hear.) I have the greatest possible respect for opinions
which are sincere, and are founded upon deep conviction,
and therefore I am far from thinking with anything like
disrespect ot' those opinions which I believe to be at the
bottom of much of the opposition which has been given
to the motion now under discussion.—(Hear, hear.)
Those opinions and convictions have not been fully and
broadly stated by those who have taken part in this de-
bate; but they have been broadly and fully stated in a
pamphlet I hold in my hand, and which is not unworthy
the consideration of gentlemen who have turned their
attention to this subject. It is a pamphlet ably written,
—written evidently with a deep and serious conviction of
the principle therein laid down,—that it is contrary to the
Christian religion to do violence to any man, even to
your enemy.—(Hear.) The object of this pamphlet, then,
is to show that it is the Christian duty of this country to
be conquered by France.—(Cheers and great laughter.) It
is in the shape of a dialogue, exceedingly amusing,
between gentlemen engaged in a teflo club or in the
duty of soldiers—a very odd duty of soldiers certainly—
but one of the speakers in this dialogue paints in very
vivid colours the results of an unopposed invasion. He
says, "I grant you 250,000 men may come over from
France to this country." I said that 50,000 or 60,000 men
mightcomc, but the writer of this pamphlet goes far bey ond
my calculation—(A laugh)—but he 'says, " they will
come unopposed, they will take possession of Landon, they
will seize the Batik, where they will not find 18,000,0001,
but they will levy contributions on all the inhabitants of
London—(Laughter)—Parliament will be swept away;
the courts of justice will be abolished; the French Gene-
rals will issue edicts; there will .be a new Parliament,
consioing of Frenchmen—(Roars of laughter)—the Code
Napoleon will be substituted for the law of England—
(Laughter)—the Sovereign will live like a private indi-
vidual in Scotland—(Great laughter)—the Government,
of course, will be aenibilated, the country will be en-
tirely governed by this French army who is to invade
it; but," says this writer, " what 'does it signify?—
(Great laughter)—we shall go on working our mills—
(Great ironical cheering from the Ministerial side, and
counter cheers)—we shall stand behind our counters and
sell our wares in our shops—(Cheering continued)—
people must eat, they will want clothing, we shall sup-
ply_o theni with their wants, and we shall go on making
alsayn7-:_—(Great cheering and laughter.) One might
to themselves rha t
who
made
eimc veoese
eveonfythshosoeulvdereyverha well-known to
lines—
" gentlemen
they might PP"
,nonvobismeifitnitad.casntisunahveasp,py application
Sic vos non vobis yellers fortis oves,"
—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—and the sheep would not
failthis bepamphlet
phelaett genuepe by s
on
to
awolves.—(Hear, hear.) Then
would astonish the whole say
that that state of things
world.—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) At first the French
ewouldwould
e rteheipn k a there e
nr ea
am-
bushw would be discovered;a
s
an ambush laid for them; they
and e
n there would be
among those 250,000 men, some
of
nt h
Christian
traisln_k of h
resistance Feeling
e
and deep reflection, who would begin to
wonderful spectacle of anation without
a foreign foe; and in the course of time, aestteaeseme
to
fifty or more millions sterling had been removed fromo
this country to France, the French would be an ter-
ribly ashamed of their position—(Great laughter)
—of the very ridiculous position in which they had
placed themselves that they would all go back to
France and leave this country to its own resources; nay,
so deeply would the sense of their ridiculousk position be
impressed on their minds—and we know that the French
people
offer to send us back those 5
„
are most susceptible oforiodoicote-01.thsatetrtlhinegy
wwohuielhd
men; and then they would be done, again;
they had taken from our bankers, merchants, and tsrhaoduelsd-
e—sve eh oluld
hmag;
nshaonwinitelaiesnaly aremfuosroo gtlooritoaukseexiat.t.p(
Roars of nag ter.
sober earnest, and not at all in the spirit _
at,
if
he
Yet I firmly believe this is written in s(i)triesilcaunled.
—( A laugh.) T,ly Hon. Friend may laugh, b
will read the pamphlet, he will see there is through-
out a tone of sober seriousness which convinces me
that those who wrote it are, in point of fact, that party
at whose instigation much of the opposition made to
this measure is raised. Now, thee, the House and
the country are to determine between two alternative--
whether they will, as required by the party from whom
pamphlet
andt iniquities—for emanates,i voluntarily submit this country
tthoisam
the pm
irniitnie'—
af os
formerr
a times
Lit
thoseses
committedaart theeenem wordseat
by
used—of a corqueet by France for
the sins this country has
waging war—for that is the ground on which this pro-
ceeding is urged—(Hear, hear)--the country and Parlia-
ment, I 0531114 0 to determinewhether they will become

the victims of that system of submission which is re-
quired by those whose organs, I must suppose and be-
lieve, are resisting this measure in this House—or whe-
ther they are still suffieiently wedded to their ancient
notions of independence and self-vindication which would
lead them to resist a foreign invader and provide all
necessary means by which, if that invasion of the
country should ever happen, it might bo sufficiently re-
pelled.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. WAKLEY regretted that the Noble Lord, gifted
asate
swoafsaiLthfrsoumehhgi3igpainstiiici-opheawseetio ohfaivntelcileue:t„eaShsohuolhd
h
detestable trash as he had just read from.' a pamphlet.—
(Oh, oh.) He (Mi., Wnkley) strongly suspected that
this trash had been publiebed in a lunatic asylu, d
an
he recommended the Noble Lord to pay a visit to imt, for
he would admire theinstieetion and the persons he found
in it.—(oh, oh.) - Sarely_there must be something going;
on in the great. Whig family to, induce the Noble- Lerd'
to act is this manner`; it WB9- only matter of wonder,
however, that' if han:liciel so tong together, considering
the heterogoneoue and extratirciinttry materials of which
it was coaapesed. Bat-why bed not the Noble Lord
acted upon the Opinion of the King of the French, and
increased our army in 1844,. if it needed augmentation?
There could, he no mlsunilerstending :the cheer with
which Hon. Gentlemen opposite had recsived that pas-
sage of the blockhead pamphleteer in which he spoke of
the " working of the mills."—(lronical cheers.) But
there bad been something potent in the working of these
mills; for they had ground a partyof Peotectioniets lute
a party of Free-traders.—(ob, and laughter.). Hon.
Gentlemen might make wry Leo: for the operation was
no doubt torturing, but they had confessed as Much.—
(Oh, oh.) The budget was one proef, and the workers
of mills had accomplished the transformation--(Cheers.)
The Honourab!e Gentlemen continued—You (point-
ing to the Opposition benches) -must not repudiate the
mills, nor your master, Richard Cobden—a greater man
than any of you.—(Oh, oh.) Why, lam sure no Hon.
Gentleman opposite considers' that an offensive remark.
I say that Richard Cebden is one of the greatest men
who ever lived, and you are his diielplee.—(oh oh.) I
expect a great deal of effrontery from Hon. Gentlemen
oppotite; but do not be ungrateful to that great man,
your mentor, Richard Cobden.—(Oh, oh.) They had
examples enough to show the evils arising from arma-
ments. Did they believe the liberties of any country
were safe that had large armaments? Soldiers had
brains, and no country was safe that relied upon armed
men. Ho complained that Hon. Members on both sides
of the House had been pointing out all the nooks and
creeks by which a foreign foe could safely reach and
land in England. But they had really no. fears on the
subject. They knew that the population would rise as
one man and defend the liberties they held so dearo and
the Sovereign they loved BO well. The Government must
know that they would not get skilled mechanics to enter
the militia—they would not leave their work to take
a shilling a day—they would get none but the farm-
labourers. and after a few days' training they would send
them back much, worse than before. If they, were so
wealthy—it free trade had given them so large an
amount of spare capital, why should they not, instead of
expending it in putting instruments of death into the
hands of the people, expend it in educating them? He
believed that the Bill would be.found as mischievous as
it was unpopular, and he should give it his most strenu-
ous opposition.
Colonel THOMPSON thought the proceedings of the
House were approaching closely to a burlesque. He
did not believe that any of the persons who were in-
terested in the promotion of the principles of free trade
would hove written such a pamphlet as that quoted from
by the Noble Lord. He was ready to admit that a
danger had existed, but it had passed away. He be-
lieved they would have ample notice of any attempt at
assault or invasion, and although the despotic ruler of
the French might be desirous of an assault upon
England, be believed the people of France would not
now co-operate with him in such a perilous undertaking.
He believed, also, that a volunteer rifle corps, of a small
numerical strength, would be far more efficient than a
large body of local militia. That was the opinion of all
military men of any experience.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said he would be able to show
before he sat down that it the pamphlet quoted by the
Noble Lord was another Punch, there were more
Punches in the House.—(Great laughter.) That would
probably add much to the liveliness of the debate, and
he was sure they would receive the announcement with
satisfac ion that the printer was a candidate for the seat
of his lion. Friend Mr. Hall for the city of Perth.-
--(Lend laughter.) He regretted that the Noble Lord,
the late head of the Government, had not produced
something better after six years than this halt-hatched
egg, and given them some better means of defence. The
Militia Bill was not applicable to their present position,
but it was the only one their rulers brought before
them, and they must either vote for it or reject
it, and go undefended. Ho agreed with the Ho-
nourable Member for the West Riding that there
might be a better distribution of their forces. He
did not think they required troops in the north, and
suggested they ought all to be moved down to the
southern counties. There was no occasion for troops in
the large manufacturing towns to trample upon the peo-
ple,—(A laugh.) Nay, if the Hon. Gentleman would
enter into a treaty with the President of the French to
enter the Mersey instead of the Thames, he did not
know whether he should not vote against the Bill.
He was not sure a small invasion would not do
them a great deal of good. They were in a con-
diion like that of the overgrown spoiled boy, when all
wished that somebody would give the fellow a good
licking. He thought it would do the country a great
deal of good to get a good licking.—(Great laughter.)
if an invading army appeared, he believed these mills,
which had done such wonderful things, would soots cease
working. Now (said Mr. Drummond) they were a very
rich people—they bragged of their wealth—but they
were thought much richer then they really were; and
they advertised the fact that they did not intend to de-
fend themselves. Why, their refusal to do so was just
as much as to say to the French, " Come over and plun-
der us. for we shall not resist."—(Hear, hear.)
Lord J. MANNERS next rose, but was very indis-
tinctly heard in consegaence of the noise that prevailed
in the House. He was understood to.observe that the
Hon. Member for Finsbury had stated that no justifica-
tion was offered for this measure. He (Lord J. Manners)
should, however, have thought that the opinions pro-
nounced by the most eminent men in the country upon
this subject might have had weight even with the Hon.
Member for Finsbury. He must remind the House of the
necessity under which this measure was proceeded with—
viz. , the Houseintroducedlatt ford pronouncedthe or e a
hbi
zy a itstio
h h
v otfe
tthhea
rat ai l
ißtiial I
should be ,
and it was in obedience to that vote that the wentprn
measure was brought in.greaarmytest
and navy.
c
were urged against the increase of gthr
Under these circumstances,
that the defences of the country were in a most defective
state, the Government were of opinion that thehaddi-
it being generally admitted.
Lionel forces required could be best obtained wit
_due
regard to the best interests of the country by the ad_op-
don of the present measure—a measure that was less`
hostile to the feelings of the people, and better calculated
to meet the objects they had in view, than any other
course which they could take. The Government, there-
fore, confidently asked the House to reject the amend-
ment.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Sir, I wish to state, in the
first place, that I cannot vote for the amendment now
proposed, because I think it desirable, the House having
decided by a very large majority in favour of the second
reading, that we should proceed in Committee to dis-
cuss the various clauses and provisions of this Bill.
But whilst I cannot agree with many of the statements
made in the very able speech of the lion. Member for
the West Riding, I must at the same time protest
against the formula put forward by the Noble Lord the
Member for Tiverton. The Noble Lord says that there
is this alternative—" If you vote for this Bill you will
at least be safe, whilst if you vote for the amendment
you may possibly be ruined." Sir, the whole of my ob-
jections against this Bill are comprised in this, that it will
not make you safe. I agree with the Noble Lord, not as to
the extent of the danger, not as to the sudden nature of
the attack that he seems to apprehend, but as to the
necessity for providing against dangers which, is the
event of war, must be greater than they were at former
periods. The Government, undoubtedly, has fairly un-
dertaken the execution of the wish of this House, as ex.
pressed in its resolution, that a Bill should be brought
in; bat I have co isidered this matter as well as I could
before the second reading, with the view of ascertaining mot
whether it was possible for me to propose such amend- Against it ', ... ....
meats in Committee as would render the Bill much more Majority
ittlien"--1
efficient as a means of defence for the country, and it '
seemed to me-that while I might- perhaps succeed in de-
feating some of its clauses, I could hardly be successful
in inserting -other clauses . and other provisions that
would give strength and efficiency to the measure. I
OPOLIS3
therefore came to, the conclusion that it would be better
that the Bill should at once be rejected, in order that the
Government might provide a better force for the defence WATER SUPPLY ofinviehsetigMatEionni..
o rt thhea nu
Government
y ru notes,m e bet
em.aetlitssfuerce.
the following
Committee
to be of the country.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) I need not Yesterday, after 70 days'
rewsisnetgoinOcof this
allude to the various other means that have been sug-
law for the fttiure regulatton of the wahtao-
of the House of Commons adopts d
gestad by different Members of this House, and some of
them by myself', as being . more adapted to secure the and public supply of the -metropolis. companies
enioesf
peace of the country. It this Bill had not been enter- Th
inquiry is estimated at Vile rate of I,oooa
tained by the House, I feel not the slightest doubt ifinclad-
, c
'torso nf ebr
both
tnhc et so ,
ing fees to 20 counsel, parliamentary agents,
the Government had thought it necessary to resort to ay'
solicitors,
some of those other means, that there are hardly any matters. The provisi ens are understood other
of them that are not better than the present Bill.—(Oh.)
I see Gentlemen doubt my opinion; but really though I the promoterspublication
-601;
and to the various watercomPanies, whose Bills
have heard the Bill very much defended in this House, be gone into seriatim by the Committee. ThewiNnilowf
I hardly heard any one of experience, still less the Chelsea Water Company is now • under cons'cli of
any person of military experience, say that they lion, and there are ten others to be taken.
Owing,h era-
thought this measure would be effective.—(Hear, hear.) is stated, to the determined oppoaltion of the companies,it
Gentlemen seem to doubt what I have stated; but I the provisions are totally different to those proposed.
shall put to the Gentlemen the 'following case, in order the Government measureoas originally brought in, 111
that Gentlemen may bring home to their minds the in- ti Whereas it is expedif int to make provision for ae-
efficiency of the measure which the Noble Lord the curing the supply to the metropolis of pare and whole-
Member for Merton says is to make this country safe. some Water, and °them' ice to make farther and better
—(Year, hear.) if the small regular force be not in- provision in relation to the water supply of the metro-
creased no one can doubt that if a war were to break out polis; be it therefore tr Elected by the Qaeen's Most Ex-
no person in the situation of commtuder-in chief would
separate the forces cellent Majesty,. by a' ad With the advice and consent
he would be able to collect in the of
neighbourhood of London and between the Lords Spiritual.. and Temporal,' and Commons, in
London and
invasion the
south coast. Now suppose this present Parham tent assembled, and by the authority
an took place in aof
distant part of the country, the same, as foil( e ws:--
in Cornwall, or
docks, and suppose 5,000 " Clause 1. Fror a and after the 1855, it
men of this rawmilitia.
directed against that were shall not be law,fit' ,for any company to take for the sup-
suddenlywould any one believe that such oargriesd French force, ply of the metro,' ,oli or of any Fart thereof, any waver
cient to send against that French fore©,rcenwdould be suffi- from any part C ,f thb river Thames below Teddington
not a sufficient force to ac-nd against thema thisifß that were Lock, or from a Ely part of any of the tributary rivers or
be effective. But then lam told that the m ill will not streams of the river Thames below the highest point
proposed to introduce is one of a similar n
measure that we where tha tide if .ows in such tributary rivers and armies
any quesuon that may be raised as to the difrse' and that respectively.
,erence be- and after t' Clause 2.
tweeu a local militia and a regular militia is ono of yrotrt .the 31st day of December,
great importance. There is coupled with this that whinho 1855, eve. 4 res. ervoir within a distance in a straight ]in)
same inconsistent with such a statement—namely, that front Si~. Paul's Cathedral, in the city of London, of not
it was right and wise, end entirely from public spirit more than five miles, in whichwater for the supply to.
and patriotiem, that . a majority of this House refused the metropolis, or any part thereof, is stored or kept by
leave to meam,
to bring in a Bill, founded upon a principle , ancompany, shall be roofed in, or otherwise covered
Of local miliia; and, on the other hand, that I could over, provided! always, that this provision shall not
regular militia except from motives extend to an he•water from which is sub-
not oppose the (
hear.)
I of jetted y restervoir, t .
party and faction: b
Hear, own cannot see filtration
y the comp's to effitOnt after it is
there is anything Yell ?Windup. in this at t diseharzed f t reservoir,•and before it
o 4 fniunt,— into e,s - rem 'ma is passed
--v *4.4 maims 9r pipes of the temps 1Y for distribution,

.. 76
Majority agaitist... 209
Oa the question. that the speaker do leave the ohair
or the House to go into Committee on the Bill,
Mr. HUME blamed Lord John Russell for having
counselled the passing of a measure which he himself
had stated was inadequate to the purpose for which it
was intended. 'For the Opposition to yield to the Noble
Lord's advice was to plAce themselves in the same boat
with himself, and that he (Mr—Hume) was not prepared
to do. He should, theretore, meet the motion with a
direct negative..—(oh, oh I and divide.)
Mr. GIBSON asked the Home Secretary whether it
was not possible to go into Committee pro forma, with
a view to introducing another -Bill, which should com-
prise the whOle of the militia law in one enactment?
Mr. WALPOLE could not answer the question until
he knew what the Committee might do with the amend-
ment of which notice had been given, to omit the com-
pulsory clauses of the Bill.
Mr. BRIGHT asked if it was intended that the 80,000
men who were to be balloted for, or who entered the
militia as substitutes or volunteers, were to come under
the provisions of the Mutiny Act, and be subjected to the
punishment of flogging whilst in training?
Mr. WALPOLE—The Hon. Gentleman would ex-
cuse him if be declined answering the question until the
Bill went into Committee. _ _

Mr. COBDEN thoUght that, before the House was
called upon to go into Committee, his Hon. Friend had
a right to learn from the Home Secretary whether he
intended, by the provisions of the measure, that those
who were balloted or who came under the provisions of
the Bill by volunteering or serving.as substitutes, should
be subjected to martial law whilst in training, and the
punishment of the, lash.
Mr. WALPOLE'S belief was, that according to the
provisions of the Act 42 George 111., chap. 90, the mi-
litia, when embodied or enrolled, was put for the time
under martial law ; of course he meant by that expres-
sion under the Mutiny Act.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex-
pressed a hope that the Hon. Membar for Montrose
would withdraw his motion;" but
Mr. HUME declining, •
The House dividtd, when there appeared—
For the motion ...... ... . . 219
Against it B5
Majority. for the motion —l34
The House theti went into Committee pro forma, Mr.
BERNAL in the chair.
Mr. BRIGHT hoped the Government would not
hastily press forward the measure to a further stage.
The urgency of the measure was not proved, and he
thought that any further stage of the Bill should be
postponed until the country had time to declare its
opinion on the subject.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that the proposition of the Ifon. Member was most pre-
posterous. The Government had been urged from day
to day to expedite tile business of the I-louse, and what-
ever other business might be on where any doubt of its
importance might exist, the Militia Bill was that busi-
ness, for the prepondfrating.opinion of the House was
.declared in support of the importance of the measure;
o
day
ydon
ndfno
coir)
it
—i
itt
tsth—oen
negx Hon.oot
course
aroM6gue;:mt
ahbnee
whichdr e
ofna wished
tic:r:mat
otha
age
purpose?
utuarticnoofisgnex:t a remote
Not
t o
discuss the merits of the Bill, but to agitate the country
, .
opinion of the House, take the
fii with
Tgheunresrdaaly
Instead, then, of a distant day, he shoulthdie,tuitair°cbliolanc.-
f libertymt y wf
next for proceeding with the
Committee.

After a short conversationthorp, Mr.,FaX, Mr. Walpole, and Mr. M. Gibson took
part, as to the necessity Of, ex
peuiting the progress of
the Bill as proposed by the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer,or, of postponing it as urged by the Hon. Member
tor Manchester, ,in which Colonel Sib.
Mon-
day next should be the day .for resuming the considera-
tion of the Bill.
Mr. FLUME suggested, as a
Mr. NEWDEGATE combatted the proposition
tihleerbdeigseguo:sion,
tb,e
noun for
Middle course, that Mon-
delay, as wholly uncalled-for and unnecessary, the °ea-
sure having beer. already
8° long before the House.
Mr. COBDEN repelled the imputation of the Chan-
cellor of Exchequer,and
Gen-
tleman not to repeat that tone to lion. Members on that
(the Opposition) side of thnHouse..
Warned the Right Hon. A
charge of agita-
tion came badly from HoD.--Members opposite. They
had once before been opposed to Ahem on a national
question, and they could not ehargts him (Mr. Cobden)
purpose of reinstating on tap Treasury bench
or his friends with want of fotbearamce on that occasion;
but if they agitated the country, it would not be for the
immediately on their entering upon
.office, men who,
.
principles which they profesaed in opposition.
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER said
there was a misinterpretation, whi•ah had better be set
right at once. The Hon. Men iber for Blanchester
theAWfteerstsßomideinfug:
wished for delay in order tnappeal to the country, and
be wanted to know what that meant 4 •if not to agitate the
country. He did not charge the 3Hon. Gentleman with
wishing to agitate; he drew it not as an inference, but
as the natural conclusion from his., own words. With
reference to what had feline from t'he Hon. blember for
abandoned the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) Was
,there to put into ope-
ration the politics which he had pi tofessed on the other
side of the House.—(Cheers.) ..._
to info oin him that he (the
The CHAIRMAN repotted
Pr')gress, and obAtined
leave to sit again on Thursday tsxt. .
Mr. Hu HE then moved that M
-.---(3llflay next, instead of
Thursday, be the day fixed fet
'proceeding with the
Committee.
The House then divided, vvh.en there orh motion
.._
......31
appeared—
Againstit, ... ,
..
...! ... ... 103
resumed,
Majority ...., _
.....
,2
.•• ••• '
The House again divided tai the m.otion that the House
do resolve itself inte COininitteec en Thursday next.
For the motion
..
...
...
105
Against it :, ...
....
*...
...,
29
Majority .:
...
____6
.
••• i
•
Adjourned at Twenty Minutes Past Two o'clock.
, i .

with Mr. H. D. SE'ratOint in favour.
The Hon. W. R.D:crNccomg pi/tired against Mr. Cob-
against Mr. Cobden's
SCEIOLEFIELD.
motion, with .M r, ATTERTON paired oil
denc'snlomnceitliocell,

TO THE SECRETARY OF THE BRADFORD
REFORM ASSOCIATION.
(CONTINUED ON MONDAYS AND WEDNESDAYS.)
Sir.—On Monday the 3d, the Secretary for the Colo-
nies moved to bring in a Bill to grant a Representative
Constitution to the colony of New Zealand. The Tories
are evidently bent on taking the wind out of the sails of
the Whigs, wherever they are able; and the present
afforded a brilliant instance of their talent in that re-
spodt. It is quite true, that they found nearly all the
features of the Bill sketched in by their predecessors;
but the style of handling was what they had the genius
to make their own. Instead of a snarling, grumbling
kind of process, having the air of looking about for re-
cusants for the sake of a wholesome stirring of their
bile, they contrived that all should go smoothly as a
wedding-bell. If there were disputable questions of de-
tail, they produced them as such, with professions which
could hardly be insincere, of their readiness to submit
them to amicable discussion. On the great point of all,
in comparison of which questions of First Chambers
and Second Chambers sink back into the pigeon-holes
they were taken from, they spoke like men who knew
that fortune had thrown into their hands the task of lay-
ing the foundation, of what may honestly hob out to be
a world supremacy. If there be one thing especially
revolting to the man who has studied his coantry's his-
tory and mankind's, it is to hear a "snobbish" and
furacious individual prating about " the Anglo-Saxon
race;" when the known fact is that the country in
which he speaks, is to a greater extent than any other
in the universe, an agglomeration of all races and all
divisions of the one blood of which were made the na-
tions of the earth. The Whigs. have let the Tories
snatch from them the grand experiment of amalga-
mating a race at the Antipodes into supporters of the
British Crown, and thus striking into the principle
which alone will enable us in the next century to hold
our own against the offspring of our negro-drivers. Con-
sult Defoe, and see how many bloods went to the com-
position of the " true-born Englishman." Why should
not a dozen more be added to the list, bringing each the
dowry of a province, or some a quarter of the globe?
Can any man tell, for instance, why India, or Africa, or
the Antilles, should not, by something like the contrary
of policies hitherto pursued, be studded over with popu-
lations of swarthy Englishmen, born to the climate, and
boasting, like the Jew of Tarsus, of being citizens of
no mean city, under a wider than Roman rule? Of a
surety, if there be truth in theology, the Romans will
one day stand up with the Queen of the South, and de-
mand of our whole string of Colonial Secretaries to
show whether they have come up to the Roman mark,
and given to races at the world's extremes the same fair
play that was given to our rugged ancestors. Oae single
thing bars the vast prospect open to a true statesman's
view;—the brutish instinct of race the vulgar man
shares with the rat miscalled of Norway, prompting him
to see in all who differ from him by a shade of colour or
a cast of fur, objects for blood-sucking instead of ma-
terials for a country's political and commercial great-
ness. The Americans have deeply sworn, within the
life of man, which is threescore years and ten, to place
an American army behind the Horse Guards, and haul
down the " flaunting bunting" on Windsor Cattle; and
they will do it too, unless " Amalgamation" can beat
"Non-Amalgamation" in the race. It is easy talking
about the friendly disposition of the Americans; but
this is what is in their popular mind. America
means to "annex", you; and if something is not
done, she will. It must have been highly amus-
ing to Transatlantic slave-breeders, to see the zeal
with which John Bull on his late alarm from France,
exclaimed " America will help us." If she helps
you, it will be as the feeder helps the swine, to
make bacon of the whole hog afterwards. It is not
im-
possible, that the scene which Heaven's scene-shifters
aro now raising before the audience of the world, is a
struggle between the old and new English, to settle
whether the more backward races of the earth are to be
raised by the agency of the first, ohsawld on by the
other. It is difficult to say what t expedtation of ex-
istence of a Colonial Seeretary may he; but the man
may write " Vixi," who has had the FOcTrtunity of lay-
ing his hand on so magnificent a cause.
The Bill was ordered to be brought in, with a una-
nimity and general applause which have been rarely
witnessed. It is great pity but it had been brought
n and
i carrid through by somebody else. But what is
to be done,e when men have not the gift of what artists
"getting things out of hand?"
call
On moving to go into Committee on the Militia BTinlle,
Amendment was moved to call for certain returnhs.
only good reason for this, must have been
than
enhope
the
getting a greater proportional division. hiaionnnt
was
former occasion. Instead of which, an adjournment
therebyight think the
et o
atdhjen
nortneren
mallovwehdo, 291 to 68,
timed; the whole ending in being beaten
sidet : :et he es s v et!
re s
Hot!
sion of 315 to 165, which is less than 2 to
which is more than 4 to 1, instead of thei foTrmacetricdiaivni;
do not call this making an advance.
the BillC wn
negOantivTuesday
BthsetoA7m6e;
mittee with a majority of 219 to 85
ineerely,
I am, Sir, yours very s oRmER.
nadnnidenthte°l,ll
lAN OLD lira
- oarlielditiianto

Blackheath, May 5,1852.

[AnyErrlsEmENT.] Holloway's Ointment and
Pills have cured a Diseased Foot and prevented Amputation.
—Mr. James Palmer, No. 1, Mason-court, Blake-street,
Liverpool, suffered dreadfully from a diseased foot ; the most
eminent medical men attended him, and they deemed it neces.
sary to remove one of his toes. Before this healed, however,
the disease broke out higher up, and then they wanted to am-
putatd the whole foot to prevent fatal consequences. This he
objected to, and resolved to try Holloway's Ointment and Pills,
which have effected a perfect cure, and he can walk and work
ists, and at
as well as ever. This can be verified by Mr. Martin, chemist,
24, Copperas-hill, Liverpool' ant
by all drugg
Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand, London.
--Fourteen persons
DOG• FIGHTING PUNISHED,
were estrday, at the Worship-street Police-court, se
verelyy punieshed for taking an active part in the disgusting
" amusement of dog-fighting. Two of them were com-
ten others 21. each.
milted to the House of Correction for three months, two
were filled 0/. ee.ob, And the