The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-08 00:00:00

SATURDAY EVEN! NU-, MAY 8, 1852.

constitutional and legitimate means available. The Go-
vernment were be and to protection in consequence of
that meeting. Th ey were bound by their association to
this principle of pi .otection, and for the imposition of a
tax upon the foe d of the country. Who wore the
vice-presidents of. this association? He would read
the names of those who hold important offices in the
Government. The Judge Advocate, the Secretary-
at-War, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lan-
caster, the Prime Minister—(Cheers from the
the Opposition)—the Under Secretary for the Colonies,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer—(Renewed cheers
from the same quarter) —the Lord Chamberlain, the
President of the Board of Control, the Lord Steward, the
Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and the First Commis-
sioners of Works. He would ao.t follow the list through.
There were several Lords and G entlement of the House-
hold. Well, then, he repeated Caitt in the face of such a
meeting it was utterly impossible; for the Government to
give up those opinions which they had formerly pro-
fessed. He was glad to hear the ripeech of the Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite, because if there was any veil thrown
over this question it was now withdrawn. When they
went to a dissolution the people would be able now to
say that they voted against a Government that was
pledged by every point of honour and by every principle
which men hold dear, by their political as well as their
private character, to lay a tax on the food of the people.
--`‘ No, no," from the Ministerial side of the House).
It was convenient for them to gay "No," because they
dared rot say anything else to the public. His belief
was, that, giving them every c redit for honourable in-
tentions, they will try to re-ena at protection if they can
succeed in inducing the people 1;o consent to it.
Mr. ADDERLEY said it seemed to him that the Hon.
Baronet had got hold of a wonderful mare's nest.—
(Hear, hear.) Now, what di amount to? Why,
merely that a few Members of this side of the House
who were wellk flown to the Hon. Baronet had belonged
to the society alluded to for a great number of years.
—(Hear, hear.) Supposing any person had been in the
society in 1846, when they were struggling for the prin-
ciples of protection, and that they stilt remained in it up
to the present day, might not such persons feel that
though it was impossible to re-enact those protective
duties, yet that the hardships inflicted on the farmers
must be folly acknowledged.—(Hear, hear.) Under
such circumstances, would there be anything incon-
sistent in finding their names still in this society? But
there was even a more wonderful mare's nest discovered
in the financial statement made by the Right Bon.
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when it
was said he had recanted his former opinions. What
did it amount to but a statement of facts ?
—(Cheers from the Opposition.) It amounted to a
statement of fasts. Why, the inference drawn from
that statement was ridiculous! The Right Honourable
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer merely
stated the success of the late Right Hon. Baronet Sir R.
Peel's financial policy, and because be had done so it
was said that h e had withdrawn his former opinions in
reference to the agricultural interest—an interest that
was treated very harshly. Why, the late Right Hon.
Baronet was not even the originator of that principle. It
was adopted in respect to omnibuses, when the fares
were reduced from 6d. to 2d. and ld. And also in res-
pect to books, as, for example, the "Penny Cyclopredia."
Although the experiment might be considered suc-
cessful it could not bo denied but that much hardship
and injury was inflicted upon certain classes by those
changes. The p arty with which he acted had always
said that the age icul tural interest would suffer by the
repeal of those It Lws affecting agricultural produce, and
the very success of the experiment had strengthened
their position.—(Hear.) Their claims were founded
upon common justice, and the experiment having suc-
ceeded they had established their claims.
After a few words from Mr. W. WILLIAMS, which
were inaudible 4,-n the gallery,
Colonel SIBTHORP said he confessed he could not
regret the circumstance of not having heard one word of
what had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman who spoke
, last. He had th e honour to belong to the association
which had been referred to, and he was proud of it. The
resolutions which they passed were far different from
those of the Anti -Corn Law League, who adopted a low,
dirty, sneaking, underhand, disgraceful mode of proceed-
ing.—(Laughter.) Brag was a good dog, but Holdfast
was a better. Larking dogs don't bite—they were not
to be feared.—(Renewed laughter.)
, Mr. COBDEN rose to put a question to the Hon.
Member for South Essex (Sir E. N. Buxton). That
Hon. Baronet had :a notice on the paper for a Bill he
(Mr. Cobden) considered of a most abominable character.
It was one which proposed to recognise the treating of
county electors. Such a measure, he thought, was an
insult to the House. He wished to ask the Hon. Baronet
whether, in case be could not bring on his Bill until
after eleven o'clock, it was his intention to divide the
House upon it?
Sir E. N. BUXTON said it was certainly his intention
to bring on the Bill this evening, if he could get the
opportunity. Considering that it was only the first
reading, that there had already been a discussion upon
the motion for leave to bring it in—if he were fortunate
enough, as ho hoped he should be, to carry the first
reading to-night, he would take care to give Hon. Gen-
tlemen who were opposed to the measure full opportu-
nity of considering and discussing its merits.—(Hear,
hear.) He could make no promise, however, as to
the time when he should bring it on.
Mr. ROEBUCK begged to give notice that if the Bill
were likely to pass into a law he should move the inser-
tion of a clause providing that the expenses to be
incurred under it should be paid out of the county rates.
The motion for the adjournment of the House at its
rising until Monday was then agreed to, and the House
went into Committee on the
MILITIA BILL.

Mr. WALPOLE moved that the second blank in the
7th clause, for the number of militia men to be raised
in the first year, be filled up with the words "fifty
thousand."
Sir E. COLEBROOKE contended that the proposi-
tion of the Government would involve peculiar difficul-
ties, and amongst them the following—that if at the end
of four years an emergency arose which rendered it ne-
cessary to call out the militia, the country would be pat
to the heavy expense of training and drilling the men
for six months, in order to get six months' service out of
them, that being the whole remainder of the term of
service which could be demanded of them. Considering,
therefore, that the Bill was in the nature of an experi-
ment, he thought it would be better to adopt a smaller
limit for the number—say 20,000—to be called out in
each year, by which means the country would have an
opportunity of judging of the operation of the Bill, and
be able to see what was the character of the men, and
what degree of reliance might be placed in them in case
of danger. He should meet the proposition of the Right
Hon. Gentleman with a direct negative.
Mr. RICH was of opinion that if as many as 50,000
men were raised in the first year, it would materially in-
terfere with the recruiting of the regular army: 20,000
or 25,000 men would be fully adequate for the purpose
of the Government, and if they attempted to gain more
they would probably defeat their own object, which, as
far as he could gather from the debate of last night, was
to avoid having recourse to the ballot.
Mr. W. PATTEN said that, if it were intended to
the
make the raising of 50,000 men in the first
year
com-
pulsory, be should vote against the motion. In his opi-
nion 25,000 would be quite sufficient; but if
Hon. Gentleman consented to reserve to the Government
a discretion, and the 50,000 were not to be compulsory,
proposed
that he
he would not object to the insertion of h
notded compulsory; to make
andthe
w•mrdrs. inw AthLe
pcloauLsE would repeat the statement e.
proposed
"shall," a alteringn d
inserting th e clause
in
its stead
,6 may" be raised. What he contemplated,
had made last night—that it wag
as intended
clause entirely permissive,
an
by strik-
winigthouthtatthveiewworhde
therefore,
was to raise 50,000 men by voluntary enlistment—this
year, if he could, and 30,000 men next
year, if he could
—and not to put.the machinery of the ballot in force
at all this year, except in case of an invasion or an
emergency.
Mr. SLANEY thanked the Government for the al-
teration they proposed to make, and expressed
that they would carry out the measure in that form, If
a hope
they did he should give them his support.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—.
Ayes
"' ••• •• 135
Noes
Majority ...
The blank was accordinglyfi..• •••
with 74
lled
"fifty thousand." np th the words

On the motion that the next blank in tho clause be
filled up with the words " thirty thousand,"
Mr. M. GIBSON objected. He wished to know
why, in the case of the militia, they departed from the
constitutional principle observed in passing the army
estimates—viz., of only providing for the current year
the amount of force required for that year?
Mr. WALPOLE said they had already decided upon,
having an established militia force of 80,000 men, some-
what in the character of a reserve, and to prevent the
great inconvenience to the country of raising so large a
body of men in the first year, they proposed to rais!,
it in two sections ; 50,000 men the first year, and
30,000 men the next year. They had votedalready
the first
whole force of 80,000 men, and the section for
year.
there was to voting the 30,000 for the second
year of 50,000 men; and he could not see
what objection
posed, and he
thought that gentlemen on that (the
Opposition)° side of
Mr. WAKLEY said the measure wasthe 'most pre-
posterous and unnecessary one ever p
tho Noble
to hear from
the House at least had a right
t of him for the people,
as they could squeeze anythidnsguop
on which he considered
apprehension from
Lord (Lord J. Russell), whom theyu had stood by as long
what were the special grounAs
a Militia Bill necessary?
8;
any app
of that coun-
try of the Repub-
lic;France, it was preposteroli
to the
try had settled down to
was not the s ig I,* slightest ground to apprehend
and there
in
that
quarter. It was, therefore, little
forfo r
thean
President
any disturbance
better than an insult to the people of France to tell them
that we avast add
80,000 men to our military forces, in
order to prep
are against an aggression which we sup-
likely to make upon us.
Psed - they were
Lord J. RUSSELL did not wish to trouble the Com-
mittee on
the present occasion, or indeed upon any occa-
sion while the Bill was going through Committee. He
had stated before the House had gone into Committee
that he was ready to vote for the Bill going into Corn- 1
13:awe, but entertaining objections to so many of the
clauses, ha wished to take as little part as possible in the
discussions in Committee, and accordingly ho had not
given a single vote on any clause in Committe—(Hcar,
hear)—nor did he wish to embarrass the Government
in the passing of this Bill through Committee. But
the Hon. Gentleman asked bim to state the general
grounds--

Mr. WAKLEY—No, no; the precise and particular
grounds.
Lord J. RUSSELL—The grounds on which he thought
the Bill necessary. The demand of the Lion. Gentleman
and his friends seemed most unreasonable, for really the
grounds which they asked him to state were, in fact,
that the Government of Frau° was 00 hostile V) U 6 that