The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-16 00:00:00

.J IT N E 16, 1852.

thought i was scarcely fair that the Government
should endeavour to bring in a Bill of this na-
ture for districts in which crime was gradually
decreasing both in the number and quality. of the offences,
There was scarcely a quarter session or assizes throughout
the whole of Ireland, in 1851, and in the spring of 1852,
where the judges had not dismissed the juries, congratula-
ting them on the absence of crime. With regard to the
Grime and Outrage Committee, he agreed that the result of
its labours was to make out some sort of a case for the Go-
vernment as regarded a small part of the country, but even
in that Committee the Government were obliged to withdraw
a motion which had originally been made to insert in their
report to the House a recommendation to renew this Act.
It was, in fact, an entirely party measure. The Govern-
ment had refused to remove or meddle in any way with
the causes of these evils, and it was unfair of them to be so
eager to coerce the evils themselves. He would give his de-
termined opposition to this Bill, and he hoped that the Go-
vernment, seeing the futility of hoping to pass this Bill,
would withira N it, as they had done many others.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD said he had always op-
posed coercive measures, and he should therefore oppose this
Bill. He believed that agrarian outrages sprang entirely
from the disordered state of the relations between landlord
and tenant, and it would be useless to attempt any measures
of this sort unless they applied themselves to remedy the
causes which led to these outrages.
Mr. ANSTEY considered this Bill as entirely useless. It
would not touch the evils against which it was directed. The
only persons who would obey the Bill when it passed into
law would be those who were already loyal subjects, and
those who were not loyal subjects would neither obey nor be
coerced by this law. It was a milk-and-water, useless mea-
sure.—( Divide, divide.) Hearing that cry, he should cer-
tainly move that the debate be adjourned.
The gallery was then cleared for a division, but none took
place. On returning to the gallery we found
Mr. KEOGH opposing the Bill on the ground that it was
cruel and tyrannical, and no longer necessary, from the de-
crease of crime in Ireland. It had been proved before the
Committee that the crimes were confined to a small area of
about 10 miles, and yet they were now called on, for this
reason only, to inflict a Bill of this nature on the whole of
Ireland. Yet even in this district the testimony of the chief
witness (Mr. Major) called by the Government showed that
this Act had always been perfectly abortive, and had no
effect whatever on any but loyal and peaceful subjects.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he con-
sidered this Bill was not one of coercion, but a measure of
police. There were at present in the gaols of Ireland a great
number of prisoners under this Act, who, if it were not re-
newed, would be free to. morrow. Her Majesty's Govern-
ment were prepared at this moment to introduce remedial
measures for Ireland, but they could not do that if they
neglected to insure the state of order and tranquillity which
it was necessary to foster, or if they gave a triumph to those
who flagrantly violated not only the law of the coun-
try, but also the principlei on which the civilization
of every country depended. The Honourable and
Learned Gentleman had first called this Bill tyrannical, and
next cited evidence to prove that it was futile. To show the
utter nullity of the Act the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
had quoted part of the evidence of Mr. Major, but if he went
a little further into the evidence given by that gentleman,
who had been extolled, and justly, as being a very eminent
authority on the subject, he would find that his evidence
was in favour of anything but a less restrictive power. He
would find that that gentleman was in favour of a
more extended system 04.' domiciliary visits, that
he spoke of the beneficial effects of the In-
surrection Act--though he acknowledged that he
would be slow to recommend the renewal of that
Act, supposing that some efficient alteration were made in
the law. The Government, in the present state of affairs,
could not take upon themselves the responsibility of allow-
ing this Bill suddenly to cease, and of letting loose upon the
country those who were criminals only under its operation.
The sentiments of the Government with respect to Ireland
were those which they had always attempted to express out
of office; their policy with regard to that country would be a
policy which would attempt to develope the resources of the
country, but they felt that they had no chance of accom-
plishing this unless they took every measure in their
power to ensure the tranquillity of the country and vindicate
the majesty of the law.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion ... , 140
Against it

Christmas-day Mr. Edwards received a peremptory no-
tice to leave Lemberg. His wife at the time was within
four weeks of her confinement; there were other children
in the homily; and in a most, iccleinent seasen of the
year they were told that within six days they must
travel 500 miles, and that if they did not set out force
would be need. Mr. Edwards proceeded to Vienna end
saw our ambassador, the Earl of Westmorland (who re-
ceived a princely income for doing nothing), but he re-
fused to interfere. It was not without great difficall
that this unfortunate gentleman was able-to get back to
Lemberg at all; to Escort his sick family and his wife to
the frontiers of Prussia; and Lacy had no sooner crossed
the frontiers, after a journey of no ordinary length and
severity, than Mrs. Edwards gave birth to a dead child.
That was the case of Mr. Ed wards, and to this day no ex-
planation bad been given of the sentence against him—
an illegal sentence, because it was the effect of a single
mandateissued by the command of Prince Schwarz ea-
berg, who was now answerable elsewhere fur the deeds
done in the flesh. Messrs. Smith and Wingate, on the
sth of January following, received a notice to quit the
Austrian dominions within five days. They too, appealed
but in vain, to the Eoglish Legation, and to the tender
mercies of the Austrians. The common precautions
which humanity might have suggested to mitigate their
lot was denied them. When Mr. Wingate (whose
youngest child was in danger of death) asked permission
of the military Governor of Hungary that the child's
nurse should be allowed to accompany them, he was
flatly refused. The order went forth that no one should
he permitted to attend them. and it wee only at half-
past twelve at night, at a ball where the military Gover-
ner of Pesth was present,
.that Ir.• Wingate
,atie able to obtain permission for a journey which
was to begin at the dawn of day. In all these cases
no reasons for the expulsion had been s.o much as hinted
at, and opportunities of explanation were denied
them. Neither the Earl of Westmorland nor his em-
bassy did what was their duty; but at the time they
were in Vienna the American Ambassador, when the
Earl of Westmorland would do nothing for them, gene-
rously placed his purse and his House at the disposal of
geese distressed men. Those gentlemen had property
hich, with the exception of one trifling article, they
viere obliged to abandon to the mob or to the dishonest
and spoliating Government of the country. The Go•
v'rnment of Great Britain, unless it was a coward and a
bully, should act on the principle it had adopted in the
case of Mr. Finlay. Vatel, Grotius, and others laid it
down, that due notice should always be given to one na-
tion of the abolition of any custom in another. But here
notice was given, and there was a forced sale of there
goods; and yet Lord Maimesbury said they had no
right to expect any redress. The final letter of his Lord-
ship stated, that the reply of the Austrian Government
was—

An HON MEMBER here moved that the House be
cpuuted; and, it baitig found that only thirty-sevrn Mem-
4, 'rs were present. the Ifouie stood adjourned, at a
uarter to Eight, to Twelve o'clock this day.

Majority ...
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
The Sheriffs of London appeared at the bar of the House, to
present a petition from the Mayor, Aldermen, and Common
Councilmen of London, praying for an alteration in the oath
taken by Members of Parliament, and for the abolition of all
religious tests; also another petition praying the House to
pass a general measure for the whole metropolis to restrain
the smoke nuisance.
The House then adjourned at Ten minutes to Five until
Seven o'clock.

-12

The sitting was resumed at Seven o'clock.
Petitions were presented by Mr. Lack' from the Pro-
testant women of Camberwell, praying for an inspection
of nunneries; by Lord LEWISHAM from Wolverhamp-
ton, for repeal of the attorneys' certificate duty.
Mr. HUMLE moved for returns giving an account of
the manner in which the sum of 3531. 17s. ld., charged
in the civil contingencies for 1850, and the sum of 8191.
35., charged in the Civil contingencies of 1851, were ex-
pended, under the several heads, for the funeral of the
the late Duke of Cambridge; returns showing the nature
of losses sustained by Sir R. Sandford, at the Cape of
Good Hope, for which 5,0001. was paid from the civil
contingencies of 1851; returns or accounts of the parti-
culars of the sum of 3,612/. 7a. 9d., paid as costa and
expenses on account of the Smithfield-market Removal
Bill, charged in the civil contingencies of 1851; of the
particulars of 7,000/, charged on account of bills of
costs as solicitor to the Attorney-General in lists re-
listing to charities in the civil contingencies of 1851; and
of the particulars of the, manner in which 2,000/. was
expended in Ireland in obtaining statistical information
relative to the agricultural produce of Ireland; and
copy of the order under which the inquiry was con-
ducted, and an abstract of the information collected.
Agreed to.
Oa tho motion of Mr. HUME copies or extracts of
the correspondence were ordered relative to a treaty ne-
gotiated with the Sultan of Sooloo; also copy of the said
treaty; and of any papers explaining why the ratifica-
tions of the same were not dilly exchanged; and of all
pipers relative }o the late capture of the Islands of Soo-
loo by the Spanish forces, and of the annexation of that
territory to the Spanish Crown.
DR. REID AND THE VENTILATION OF THE

HOUSE.
Mr. HINDI:Ey asked the Chief Commissioner of
Works what courie the Government intendt.il to pursue
in reference to the report and recommendation or the
Committee on the Ven•ilation crud Ligi:tin.; of the
House; and whether Dr. 13:-id was to b restored to tho
position h© occupied before 1846, and to have the charge
of ventilating and Lghting tilt) tkotve and its appurte
nancer, under the supervision of the Chief Commissioner
of Works, assisted by a Committee of observation, to
be appointed annually by the 1.1 ruse, in order to report
their opinion as to the way in which the management i 3
conducted?

Lord J. MANNERS said that, in the opinion of the
Government, the recommendation of the Select Com,
mittee was a very wise and prudent one, and there was
every disposition on the part of the Government to
carry it into effoct. In answer to the secocd question,
which referred to the competent person alluded to in the
recommendation of the S,lect Committee, at
present he
was not in a position to say who that cowpotent person,
in the opinion of the Government, was likely to be.
At the same time he could not sit down without ex-
pressing his individual opinion, that the system of venti-
lation suggested by Dr. Reid had not received that
amount of fair play which would enable it to be properly
judged of.—(Hear, hear.) Ho did not wish it to be
understood that ho was !low expressing more than an
individual opinion; but it would be unjust to Dr. Roid
if he sat down without expressing that opinion on his
behalf.

MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
A messenger from the Lords bkiught up the follow-
ing Bills. to which their Lordships had agreed:—
.Beaconsfield and Realit Road.
Manchester, Buxton, Matlock, and Midlands Junction
Railway.
Kettering and Northampton Road.
Railway Passengers' Assurance Company.
Greenfield and Shepley Lane Head Road.
Leeds Waterworks (No. 2).
Tramore Embankment.
Limerick Improvement and Market.
Ipswich Dock, without amendment.
Differential Dues.
Belfast Harbour, with an amendment.
Blyth and Tyne Railway.
Kingston and Sheetbridge Roads, with amendments.
EXPULSION OF BRITISH SUBJECTS FROM
THE AUSTRIAN DOMINIONS.
Mr. C. ANS VEY rose to move the following resolu-
tion, of which he had given notice :—" That this House
recognising the undoubted right of the Queen's subjects
resident in foreign countries to the continual protection
of her Majesty, in respect of their liberty, property, and
other personal rights, and, considering that, in the case
of the Rev. Messrs. Wingate, Smitb, and Edwards, ar-
bitrarily expelled from the Austrian dominions in the
month of January last, with their wives and children,
under circumstances involving much sacrifice of property
and other hardships to the sufferers, those rights were
violated, and that no redress has been hitherto ob-
tained for the violation, is of opinion that the case is
one calling for prompt and earnest measures on the
part of her Majesty's Government." He understood it
was the intention of the Government to take measures
for putting a summary stop to discussions upon the
ease, but if they (lid resort to a count out, he was sure
they would feel the consequences at no distant period.
Not two years ago the House had been called upon to
record their votes against a most tin-English resolution
adopted in another place on the occasion of the Greek
claims, the mover of that resolution being the Noble Lord
now at the head of the Government, and on the 15th of
March last, soon after Lord Milmesbury, to the misfor-
tune of this country, was installed in office, his Lordship
informed Count Buol that he highly valued the friendly
feeling expressed by Prince Schwerzenberg on the part
of Austria towards this country. At that time Lord
Malmesbury was fully aware of the facts which he (Vire
Austey) was about to bring before the House. The
Government were making a premature and indecent at-
tempt in order to prevent his doing se, hut, while the
issue would he indifferent to bin], it would redouedon-iye
Majesty's Ministers. Mewrs.
to the discredit of her
Smith and Wingate were two mineistiers in the Scotch
church at Petah, where they hlBa4dBb. tt fled in 1818. Mr.
E.lwards was in Lemberg in , but all three gentle-
men had settled in the Austrian dominions with full
permion of the Austeen Government to undertake
their spiritual functions, The first two having resided
wou re Lean ten yearn in Pesth, had, by the law of
Hngary, become rituraliz:d; all of them had ac-
quired property, 'both real and personal, in
the
Country, and they, no doubt, intended to
Pass there the rest of their days. On the 101 h of De-
cemb..er, 1851, Count Buol wrote to the Noble Lord
the Inenibtr for Tiverton (Lord Paliners;,on), then et the
head of the Foreign-office, and informed him that by
way of retaliation upon England for protecting Kossuth
and his companions the Austrian Government intended
sots to
eto subject English travellers, however innocent of
the prejudice of the Austrian Government, to evbe
called exceptional measures of precaution. About

courage and petriotisru to toetult the ifiterests and the
exigencies of the State rather than any personal consi-
deration of unpopularity win: their 'constituents,. her
Majesty! Gevernment had than to coneider by wont
means they could belt raise un efficient force least open
to the various onjections to which every Militia Bill
would bo liable. .1 believe thst Inere ere none of your
Lordships who entertain ' a doubt that acme increase of
the military force of the country is desireble.—(Heeo
Whether under ordinary •eircuinstaticee t tne a British
army, small as it is, with the onerous duties it has to
perform, be adequate,to the :Ilue disc7laarge of those du-
ties, or whether for ordinary purposes, lookitig to ; the
great amount of thoie duties, and the constantly increas-
ing calls which now acquisitiotis and new exigencies
render imperative—whether -under ail these mourn'
stancss the British army, efficiently disciplined and per-
fect•in its organization as it is, be sufficient to meat
with a due regard to the cumfort of the soldier, the
various demands made up.li it, is n question Ido not
think it necessary to enter upon. But if it is insufficient
to meet the requirements of a peace establishment, it is
certainly insufficient to meet nay extraordinary exigen-
cies which may arise. Still lets is it able to meets sudd-11
invasion of a large and well-cliotiplined body thrown in
ha
few hours upon our coasts. But then 1; lite been sat°
if this be the case, why do you propose a
-militia forcer .
Why do you not propose an increase of from ten tea
twenty thousand men in your army? Ten thousand
British troops are more effective and more economical
than fifty thousand militiamen. I must take the I'd
bevy of adopting that declaration under some qualifica-
floes. I speak with giant deference in presence of the.
highest authority upon such subjects; but in the fir"
place, as regardt expenditure, I think it would be WY
to show that 10,000 regular troops would be less eft -
cient for the purposes for which this force is to be raised,
end more expensive, than 50,000 militinmen. I think
it very probable that my Noble Friend the Gallant
duke, if entering upon a protracted campaign, or about
to fight a pitched battle on which the fate of an empire
might depend, and which was to be tested by discipline,
severe pressure, coolness under fire, firmness and sole
diertlike qualities, would prefer a body of 10,0000 se'
gular treeps to a body of 50,000 half-disciplined militia-
men.--(Hear, hear.) But in the case of a sudden invat
sion of this country, and not for the purpose of keeping
on a permanent force, what would be required would not
be so much organization and discipline ,is that in which
the regular army would undoubtedly be deficient, viz"
numbers and masses.—(Hear.) I believe it has beent,
stated, over and over again, that the utmost amount er
the regular army which at this moment could be drawn
together for the defence of the country—setting aside
the troops in Ireland—would not exceed about 24,000
men; which, if the 8,000 enrolled pensioners wee° '
added, would give a total force of ' abent 32,000 men in
all ter the defence of the couetry against such an' army
as I have alluded to. This calculation, it must be ob-
served, proceeds upon the assumption that you with-
draw every man from every garrison end fortified' place
in the country. All these pieces, together with the ship-
,
HOUSE OF LORDS. June 15. ping stores, would be therefore absolutely left without
men to defend them, and upon the most moderate scale,
Their Lordships assembled at Five o'clock.
PETITIONS.
•
the whole of that=3,2,ooo, including the 8,000 enroll
KThe Duke of BUCCLEUCH presented a petition from pensioners, wool.] not be more than sufficient to garrison„t,
elso praying for the free importation of guano. and protect these fortified places.—(Hearehear.) Ad"
i The Earl of ENNISKILLEN presented a petition from a therefore, 10,000 .men to the regular force of 'the count
place in Ireland, praying for grants for the construction of try, and, in the case which I' am .snpeesing, the 30,000 •
rfilways in that country.
•i The Duke of NORTHUMBERLAND presented a peti- men being required for the defence of the garrison, your,
tem 'from Newcastle-on-Tyne whole available army would then not exceed 10,00 u,
praying that lights be re- men, with about 4,000 cavalry.. Instead, therefore, of
ettired to be introduced into third-class railway carriages. I BETHLEM HOSPITAL, having only 10,000 men. available for an emergency lln reply to Lord MONTEAGLE,
ee this kind, we propose. under this Bill to have a soov
i The Earl of DERBY said certain charges of a very serious militia men; 25,000 of these militia men will be Bidet!:
nature had been made to the Government in reference to the perform the garrison duty, assisted by a comparatively
management of .Thathlem Hospital, and the subject was at small portion of the regular army. It is,not too muches
Desent under the investigation of the Secretary for the Home to suppose that 30,000 militia men will be able wen,
epartment.
free from the general service of the country from 20,UU...
ADMISSION' OF JEWS INTO PARLIAMENT. to 25,000 out of 30,000 regular troops, which now eeue
The Earl of CARLISLE presented a petition from the Cor- statutes the whole of your defending force, and beret'
tioration of London, praying for an alteration of the oaths that will • 1 retain from ' 00 1 the
you sot • 40,000 to 50,0 0
alien by Members of Parliament.
ulat
militia to co-operate with the 20,000 or 25,000 reg ,
• BURGHS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed. troops whom you have thus relieved from garrison duty'
i THE MILITIA. BILL. . By 'this arrangement; instead of an army of 10.0ohi
- regular troops tree to act in the field, which you wd° t
iThe Earl of DERBY said he rose for the purpose of mov- possess by adding that number of men to the preset)
itig the second reading of this Bill, the importance of which force, you will have from 20 000 to 25,000 re'
diatould not be denied by their Lordshipi. It had already re- gular troops . assisted and supported—and their or;
ved the asAnt of the oilier House of Parliament, after vices in that respect would be invalusblee-by tin'.
,
force co operating with the 40,000 or 50,000 mi,lity:
king and persevering discussions, by overwhelming majo-
rities, both with regard to the principle and all the details, men, the defence of the garrisons and arsenals bein,,:w,
the same. time fully provided for.—(Hear.) I have 13 0,
It was a Bill for re-organizing and placing in a state of corn-
stated the grounds noon which her Maes'a Geyer.
pUrative efficiency the ancient constitutional militia fore° of grounds upon ' - f disco'
ment—not undervaluing the great advantages 0 . •
the country, and he hardly entertained a doubt that the
[dine, nor pretending to compare the individual militia
principle of the Bill, at all events, would meet with the assn with the individual toldier—still "prefer, for thei.e
Inunanimous concurrence of their Lordshins.—(Hear, hear.) defence of the country alone, a large increase in the
the first place there was an universal consent on all sides, militiaeto a comparatively small eugmentation of. the
that for the more efficient defence of the country an increase army. Various other reasons might be'adduced wniC_:
of the disposable force of the kingdom was necessary, and would lead to the sense conclusion. Por instance, stub
t4cordingly her Majesty's Government received the assent of augmentation of the regular army, ' undertaker:ee;
the ether House of Parliament to a resolution allowing a time of immediate pressure, 'would jr. ad ton constant
them to bring in a Bill to re-organize the militia. If re-opening of a vexed question in the Heusi) of ueitte
, ..
he were asked whether he grounded his reasons Mons, for the purpose of reducing the force so -soon "'
the in;mediate emergency might appear to ' have pose"
for bringing in this Bill on any immediate apprehensions of .
ievay. In addition to this, althodgh—undouletedly, not
attack from: foreign powers, he should distinctly answer that a point which ought to stop yott-,in the consideration. _he did not. Neither did he rest it upon any apprehensicin of any
all
4reonal hostile feelings of the Prince prealdent of France, establishment of ft"'iiihia force . you indicate to ,
.ihe question it - the ‘:circuMatances rf quired it—by the
leht he could not shut his eyes to the numerous changes of fpreign powers that your motives aretpurely,
the naval
Government which had taken place in France, to the large and exclusively defensive, an augmentation 9 h
class of persons in that country adverse to the cause
Wyarfare, may
of order and tranquillity, and actuated by a feeling of consi- forces or. of the regular army, aortmyt,h2nesyiv:me,
rolaftuortraelnl sive
as wolf
foreign nations the propriety of in-
the
hostility to this-country, and he felt that it would be
creasingythesuir own- forces in a corresponding degree.
instrumentsft
the height of folly and madness to wait for a contingency,
however remote, of this country being exposed for the 'first But when you make an augmentation of these troops
time for centuries to the danger of a hostile invasion. whose services are not fitted for foreign warfare, and
which must be strictly limited to the defence of our own .
The Noble Lord then continued—My Lords, when the shores, you state in. language unaiistakeable to foreign
proposition of the late Government was brought before countries, that your intentions are pacific, and that ye!!
the House of Commons, although there was a great tic- policy is a perfectly defeesive one.—(Hear, hear.) We
quiesence in the necessity fir increasing our military now come to the particular Mode In which doe propose
force, and for the establishment of a militia force, a Oil- to carry into eff•ct, .With various amendments, the evil?•
ference prevailed in that House to which I will not fur- liehed law of this country with respect to the rnilitt
thee allude.—(Hear.) Ido not wish to advert to cir- Ltt rue remind your Lordships, before Igo further, that
etmastat cps which asight be painful to the feelings of that
r,
law is, absolutely and strictly the law of the count*
any Noble Lord.—(Harr.) But a difference of opinion and that without an Act passel in each successive yeee.
prevailed in that House which negatived the* specific the Crown has the power "although it may have the d .
plan of her Majesty's late Government for providing a sire of dispensing with its exercise, of calling mat.
_h.
local militia force, and which passed a .reeolution des militia force under the ballet, as it existed in the Acte
that it was necessary to introduce a measure for 1802. I -do.-not-wish- to enter into any invidious corn'_o.,
cloning
ro general militia, or rather for amending tind console. paritons nt the measure which we propose with that pro"
elating. he taw which regulated the regular militia of peed by the late Government, and I hare still les
the
this country. Thus we arrive step by step, first, that clitiation to do so, because the Noble Lord late atoErn"..
all parties -have agreed that our existing means of de- head of the Administration made no difficulty in n nal
fence are insufficient. Next, they have agreed that a ' municsiting to Me privately and :personallY the -1j,,,
militia force was absolutely necessary, and ought to be which he stated it had•. been .hit:intentioe to effer4i
raised. Thirdly, that they entertain an opinion that a the consideration of - Parliament, and I therefore
_tem.
militia force should not to be local bat general in its cha- doubly unwilling to- enter- • into - - any possible n'ee.,
ratter, in accordance with former laws upon this subject. arms upon the paints of difference in the,. two nrtei'd
That was the position in which elixirs stood when w 6 !surer. At the same time I
_may be perm' be
were called to take a part in. her Majesty's Government, to state that although the Bill introduced .!
We took that part in a period of some difficulty. We the bite Government was nominally one for establishing_..
were much pressed with regard to the measures which. a local malitia, yet that in two most important particgrue wo would think it necessary for the service of the tars it so far deviated from that character which
country to pass previous to the period anticipated by usually affix to the term of a local militia, as to dhe
all, namely, the dissolution of Parliament, and desired Lute a considerable difference between that' Bill and ' l
by none more than those who were charged with the one which I now subatit. Because while the term local
administration of her Majesty's Government. We were militia conves the idea of a force not only icel
quite convinced of the neceasity fur a dissolution of Par- trained, but qualified and called upon to act only.' liniment at as early a period as was consistent with the its own immediate locality, yet the Noble Lord wbetal;
public interest and with the safety of the country. It is troduced the previous measure stated- that it w".
undoubtedly true that we might, had we been so dis- matter of the utmost importance that a force should be
posed, have declared that we were not bound by any provided which should be applicable to' service in
services obligations incurred by our predecessors; 'or by Bills part of- the United- Kingdem in which its serreL
which our predecessors had introduced. We might have might be required; and whereas a local militia stri. a
ctl
said that we were not responsible for the position in
eacluded the admission Of substitutes, and require
which we found the country, nor for the judgment which
persons hallooed for to serve in person, the Noble Lord
ballot
for
or be 113403•
pronounced that a militia force was necessary. By taking and his colleagues felt so strongly the inconvenience
that course we might have saved ourselves a considerable and hardship of such a provision that he announced his
amount of difficulty and obloquy, We might have pre- ' intention of de Partin from that principle of the
same vented risking the popularity of the Administration in militia, and placing it in this respect upon the 3W
the country at large. Because we were told. that this Mi- footing as the general militia. With respect to the
litia Bill, and, indeed, any Militia Bill, was objected to numbers proposed to be raised, there is
,_,,..,i2 .
on various grounds by a very largo proportion of the difference between the two measures. There Ln,u_v_Tt
population. Objections were taken to it on various and a ter, one difference to which is is necessary to d"
very different grounds, and there was an appearance, at ustention—the Act of 1802 (42d George 111-) rendereditlbih:
least, of a very considerable resistance to any such liable to the ballot, and 'consequently to service
burden being inflicted upon the country as would be tuilitia,all persons. not entitled to claim exemption bet felt
imposed by this Bill. But, my Lords, we felt that we tween the cgal of 18 and 45. The late Government felt
were not at liberty to enter upon any such personal consi- the inconvenience of the liability to the ballot extending
derations.—(Hear, hear.) We did believe that our pre- over so great a range; but I confess that, for WY °won
.
decessors were right in their judgment, that the estab- part, I cannot but think they fell rather into the
should
lishment of such a militia force was indispensable for the site extreme when they announced that the.
security of this country against aggression, and im- be drawn from men' between the ages of 20 and 2
ot.; pressed with that opinion I took the liberty of pro- the present year, and in subsequent years for men
press
nounciog that whatever other measure might be thrown single year alone. Observe how- the Act would
the
thought overboard, this was one of those measures to which we upon the population. The numbers provided
ory .e.O thought it indispensable to' obtain the sanction of' Par- Act of 1802 was about 40,000, independent of onndetwo
liament liament previous to a general appeal to the country con- other local corps, such es the City Art
sequent upon a dissolution of Parliament. I will add
pressure of
further, that I thought it a matter of considerable im- than doubled; you will see, therefore, thativrtop
would not be
prune° that no delay should take place in pushing this 80,000 men upon the whole population.
000 would have been
Since that period the population of the cielluenrytrea' has more
measure through its various stages, so that a militia greater now than a pressure of 40, force might at once be organised. This has been a in:1802. But the Bill of 1802 proPeitt tied 4;5. The Bill
subject of anxious deliberation on the part of those ballot all persons between the ages b°t` with a desire to ob-
charged with the Government of this country. Periods of the late Government, no doubt no doubt also with a
‘,...d to
have recurred—it so happened in 1845 and again in twin more effective recruit%ibrinterherence with family
subject to the
1848—in which some immediate anticipated difficulty desire to avoid as far as p
suddenly called the attention of this country ties, Proposed that the 80-
and 45, but from one of
to our want of means to meet the exigencies of the from pa
population • betir
23. It proposed, . therefore,
occasion. Hasty propositions were made; but from the ages between 20 a
upon a population extending
whatever motive, whether to avoid Parliamentary die- to raise the
il'receeara instead of t
.Wenty-aeren
,nosoOmen ehould be raised, not
cussion, as soon as the immediate danger was passed ' over only consequence of
over the metter WAS forgotten, and no steps were taken years, as in fhb that the pressure Cif ballot
to avoid the recurrence of similar dangers. In that this would save _ kit, with far
three at'et of 1802. The,
greater ferce th coin the
state of things I saw, and express, d that I foresaw, se- would hav:seb. n
The Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) cari-
llons dangers and inconvenience likely to arise. • I yen- revicuri cbelieve,
that about one-ti of entire male .
tured to call your attention to the fact that the more mated,
lation between the ages of twenty and twenty-three
peaceful your relations with foreign slate were, the more population have-been liable to the ballot. We have taken a
incumbent it was, without giving, occasion of offence to
tonne intermediate between the proposal of the late
foreigu powers, to take such means as would perms-,d Government and the existing law, but approaching
, neatly place your resources upon such a footing as would senewbet more nearly to that of the late Government.
save you, at some
.future period, from imPerfdetesP,reri4 We propose to extend the period from eighteen to thirty-
sitions, which, being hastily adopted, were Vii wi.,,,ch I five years, a period at eveich recruits drawn for the
imperfect, and only tended to apart use there.;
It is not , militia will be in full vigour, and be perfectly.able to
they were intended to obviate.—(Elelr, he% tee militia ' discharge the duties required of them for five }ears; and
a little remarkable that the contolidatie?r!
0, nes itself 1 a very large portion of them will no doubt at the end of
Bill, which is the basis of the exit:menet:la
two wars.• It , that period of service snake good volunteers into the
proposed in an interval of peacethb
act-vr,,,eo which followed regular troops. The numbers we propose to take
.are
wss proposed and carriednurie,
e;
wFas
at 01.3 time that I taken therefore upon broader limits than those as..sigh el
the treaty of Amiens in 180:. 1
b y Lord Sidatouth and it I help thinking
was by the late Government; and I cannot , K
this measure was introduced
mit pin and Mr. Fox. This that the strong opinion felt by them that ta greaeca,e)heer
was supported,out of officettoid'a measure for protection oppresson would fall upon the population betvieihi t
then is an authority tna_l;`„o„e.—(klear, hear.) Her ages prescribed by the Bill, was one ground for iedu.c-
to be taken in a tam© felt, under tnese circumstances, ing them to depart from the principle of a local militia,
that Majesty '6
Governdm etyr .i.
the roceed at all risks, and carry and introduce tne permissive power of providing. sui •.stt.
that it was their et
et tor organization of a militia which tutce upon the part of tho men who neigh:, he hal (Lei
titre-ugh a m°3'..-t
Cada:cave for, the purposes, proposed to Ttiat plea of providing substitutes does noteliort ever, by
we thought otht
and •
least liable to the plausible and anit means diminish the evil which might tell upon that.
bo ;Accomplish.:
;vhich might be raised against de- portion of the population which would be whit et to the
solid ohie"" oposed to be raised, M I anih e ballot.— Neer, It may be a matter of very little
Pensive farce
Fitidejesty's Government y .ords, have
~
~ (
were bound not to enpo,. tance to ' ' such of your Lordships; as may be within
said that her
question
whether and some few happy individuals
look to the _ the measure was popular the prescribed ages
Lordships who within the
with tho country. But lam bound to say if it is un- there are among your,...mb,—
) if you arc,happen to be 4'l"
popular—of which I have great doubts, that the greatest prescribed age (A Juub
There would be nci inconveniecce
7 cl. • due to the R
ere it lsßouse of Commons at large, and to kited for the militia.
f view, inobtainingtint'2o[l.l2CF;
e "and
the great majority of that goose, be that they—in the face in a pecuniary point o .
Of an impending dissolution of Parliament—;have had -the
-but that which fell bat lightly on your Lordshlps