The Sun.
London, England, 1864-05-31 00:00:00

THE GAOLS BILL.

In reply to Mr. NEWDEGATE,
Sir G. GREY said that he proposed to proceed with this
bill as quickly as possible as the other house was desirous
that it should be sent up to theta for consideration as soon
as possible.

TAE STEAM RAMS.
Mr HODGKINSON—In reference to Mr Solicitor Gene-
ral's statement in the Court of Exchequer on Thursday last,
that the case of the Attorney-General v. Laird, and others,
relalve to the seizure of the Confederate rams, had been
arranged, asked Mr Attorney-General whether ;the
arrangement alluded to involved the purchase of
those vessels; and, if so, whether only at their fair value or
at some higher price; whether the inducement to the Crown
to make such arrangement was a doubt as to the construc-
tion and application of the provisions of the Foreign En-
listment Act with regard to equipping and arming vessels ;
whether it was part of the terms of arrangement that the
alleged misdemeanour under the seventh section of the
Foreign Enlistment Act should be condoned by the
Crown, and that no claim for compensation for the
seizare should be made by the defendants ; and,
whether any legislation would be proposed in order to
obviate in future the doubts and difficulties attending the
construction and enforcing of the Foreign Ealiatment
Act, and thus prevent the arrangement of the recent case
operating as a premium to ship builders to specula to on
building vessels of war for belligerents.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the house
was probably aware that in the month of September
just prior to the seizure of the vessels named, person a who
•?presinted themselves as their owners, made overtu ,•es to
the Government for their purchase, which were ret 'used,
but these were rejected on the ground that tbe am ount

asked exceeded their value. Tho Government, acting on

the information received from the Admiralty, agreed to

purchase the vessels at a much larger price than was asked,
the understanding being that there was no admission made
by alleged owners of any misdemeanour, or any admission

on the part of the Government that such misdemeanour had

not been committed. The Government had not acted upon

a belief that their case would not succeed, but from a desire

to terminate the controversy relative to a very im-
portant subject, the continuance of which might

be attended with very injurious consequences.
There was no condonation of the misdemeanour by the
Crown, and under the terms of the arrangement it
was quite impossible that there could be any clause for
compensation. With regard to the last question, he hoped
it would not be found necessary to introduce any new legis-
lation on this subject, but that parties would be influenced
by what had already occurred, and Government would
act up to what they considered was the law in reference to
this matter. In reply to some other question, the right
hon. and learned gentleman said that the amount on the
present value of the vessels was £195,000 and that £25,000
would be required for their completion. £300,000 had been

asked for them.
THE REVIEW IN HYDE-PARK.
In reply to Major Kxox,
Sir G. GREY said that the arrangements on Saturday

were made after communications with Sir Richard Mayne,

and due deliberation on the means best adapted to provide
for the convenience of the public, and the result was that
there was no obstacle or impediment throughout the pro-

ceedings.
Mr PAULL asked some information as to the arrange-

manta that had been made.

Mr COWPER said that 4,000 tickets had been given to

the commanding officers of the volunteers for distribution

amongst their respective corps. He observed that the con-

duct of the male spectators towards the ladies was most un-

gallant in preventing their seeing the movements of the

volunteer corps.

DUTIES ON SPIRITS.

On the motion for going into committee of supply,
Mr. WHITESIDE moved the following resolution :
That, in the opinion of this house, it is expedient that the
existing duties on spirits should be reduced. He referred
to the views and opinions which had been expressed by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer with regard to the duties upon
spirits; to the course of legislation, in pursuance of his
financial policy, on the subject of those duties, and to its
unfortunate fiscal and moral results, especially in the
stimulus given to illicit distillation, which, as he showed,
had largely increased iu Ireland, with its inseparable com-
panion, crime, attributable solely to the present high duty.
The last increase had, he said, led to extensive and poison-
ous adulteration, and, as his last experiment had failed, he
urged the Chancellor of the Exchequer to retrace his steps.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, after a
general reply to the observations of Mr Whiteside, remarked
that the question did not apply to Ireland alone, but to the
three kingdoms, and that the policy which guided the Go-
vernment in relation to the duty on spirits was the reverse
of that which they were bound to keep in view with regard
to other branches of trade ; they had hal to look, not to the
expansion of the trede, but how to raise from the smallest
area of consumption the largest amount of duty. The pro-
posed reduction of the duty on spirits from 108 to 8s would
not, in his opinion, replace, by the increase of consumption
or by the reduction of elicit distillation, the loss of duty ;
nor would it be justifiable to legislate with the view of aug-
menting the consumption of ardent spirits. He disputed
the inferences drawn by Mr Whiteside from his facts re-
garding the increase of illicit distillation in Ireland. Accord-
ing to all the evidence, though there might have been an
occasional increase, it had never been so great under the
present as under the low duty.
Sir S. NORTHCOTE said that, although the Chancellor
of the Exchequer had been disappointed in the results of
his experiments, he did not think Parliament should at
once pronounce against it and reverse its policy. He thought
it would be better to wait till this subject had come before
the committee now sitting on Irish taxation.
After some remarks by Lord C, Hamilton, Mr Monsell,
and Lord Naas, the resolution was withdrawn.
MR HOME AND THE ROMAN GOVERNMENT.
Mr ROEBUCK wanted to ask a question of the Under
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, and it was one to
which he begged the attention of the noble lord at the head
of the Government also. It referred to the treatment of an
English subject abroad. This gentleman, Mr Home, had
a power, he believed, of bringing spirits to his call. (A
laugh.) He was what was styled a Spiritualist ; but that
had nothing to do with it, for Mr Home was, he believed, a
plan of good behaviour. Well, this gentleman went to the
papal States, and did not controvert any of the regulations
of the Roman Government. He had gone to Rome to cul•
tivate cue of the fine arts, and in order to carry out that
design he took a studio and incurred considerable expense.
Some time after his arrival he received a notice desiring him
to call on ;Signor Matteucci, the Minister of Police. He
went to Signor getteucci's office, and the Minister asked
him his age, and on his stating it Signor Metteucci expressed
his opinion that Mr Home was eight or nine years older
than he stated himself to be, to which opinion the gentle-
man himself demurred. The controversy went on, and
Signor Metteucci said " You have published a book in
France awl England stating that certain spirits wait upon
you ?" " Well," said Mr Home, "I have done that,"
"Then," said Signor Dletteucci, "will you undertake that
no spirits will come to you while you are in Rome?" (A
laugh.) Mr Home replied " No, I cant do that; the spirits
come to me of their own accord ; they dont come when I
call them, and I cant answer for the spirits—(laughter)—
but I will answer for this, that I will hold no seance—l
will do nothing to solicit their coming to me—l will do
nothing contrary to the law of the city of Rome." There-
upon Signor Metteucci gave him to understand that he
should not be interrupted in his stay. Some time after-
wards the person second in command of the police of Rome
sent for Mr Home, who went to his office and found no one
there. After his return home he received a peremp-
tory message to wait upon this second Minister of
Police, and on presenting himself the following day
that functionary said to him, "You were not here yester-
day." Mr. Home replied, " I was, and I have a consul to
prove it." The other then observed, " I don't care whether
yon were here or not, you must go out of Rome in 40 hours,"
that was the whole story. (An ironical "hear" from one
or two hon. members ) Well, "hear." (a. laugh.) He
had heard the noble lord at the head of the Government
talk about Civis Rontanus aunt on one occasion. He now
wished for a very much stronger application of the term.
Mr. Home was an English citizen, and wherever he was
the wgis of England should protect him against any in-
fringement upon his liberty which the law did not allow.
(Hear.) He wanted to know whether the noble lord at the
head of the Government would allow any English citizen t•
be treated in the manner Mr. Rome had been—whether he
would not protect an Englishman wherever ha wandered
with the name of an English citizen. He wanted W ask the
Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whom he now
perceived in close consultation with the noble lord, whether
he would not protect this gentleman against the proceedings
of the Papal Government. God knew that he had no feel-
ing about the Papal Government; and as for the old gen-
tleman at the head of that Government, ha had a high re-
spect for him, and hoped he might live many years in the
enjoyment of his high position. And as for Mr Home, in
the presence of the right hon. gentleman the President of
the Board of Trade (Mr. M. Gibson), he must say that he

regarded this spirit-caliing as an hallucination. (Laughter,
and hear, hear.) He had no feeling on the subject of that
wonderful power, except one of, he might say, contempt for
the whole thing—(renowed laughter, and hear) ; but Mr.
Home being an English citizen, he was anxious that this
country should protect him as long as he did not disobey
the law. That gentleman, at forty-eight hours' notice,
was put into a railway carriage and ignominiously ex-
pelled oat of the Roman States; and when Lord Russell
was asked what he would do, he said, " I will do nothing."
(Laughter.) It might be said that Mr. Home went into
the Roman States knowing that the Pope was all-powerful
and despotic; but—he knew he was going on a violent
hypothesis—
if an English merchant went to Russia,
and the Emperor said, "Cut off that English merchant's
head," would England stand it ? laugh, and hear, hear.)
He appealed to the noble lord to protect this unfortunate
gentleman, and he begged to ask whether anything had
been done by her Majesty's Government to procure him
redress.

Mr. LAYARD much regretted that Mr. Home had put
himself in the position which led the Roman Government
to call on him to leave Rome. Mr. Home appeared to have
infringed the Roman
laws. (ig
.—o.) Well, the Roman Go•
vernment said that the intercourse he had, or believed he
had, with certain spirits of the other world was against their
law—(a laugh)—and they required him in consequence to
leave Rome. Without saying fora moment whether Mr.
Home had or had not communication with these spirits, and
a ithout attempting to justify the Roman law or palliate the
conduct of the Roman authorities, yet the Roman law was
as he had described ; and when a gentleman was in a coun-
try it was his duty to conform to its laws—or, if he did not
so conform, the Government had a right to remove him
should it think fit. 'Under our own Alien Act when a
foreigner had violated our law we could remove him. We
could not force another Government to retain a British
subject in their territory who violated their laws. When
Mr. Home was first called upon by the Roman Government
to give certain explanations regarding a certain work that
he had published and a certain intercourse which he was
supposed by them to have with by no means a good spirit,
Lout a spirit quite c4ntrary—(a laugh)—official communi-
cation on his behalf was made to the Roman authorities,
but they were determined upon the matter. They thought
it altogether wrong that a person with such mysterious
visitants should make Rome his dwelling,-place, and com-
pelled him to depart in order to stop all intercourse there
with the evil one. (A laugh.) He did not say that that
was not foolish, bat such was the law of Rome--and the
house would see that it was not a question of their protect-
ing a British subject. Mr. Home had not been confined,or
his property confiscated—all that had been done to him was
that he was made to quit Rome within ace! tain time. That,
no doubt, had caused him inconvenience, as he had spent
some money upon a studio, and had desired to follow his
profession as a sculptor at Rome. Her Majesty's Govern-
ment had made such remonstrances in the case as its nature
permitted, but those remonstrances were unavailing, and
he We afraid they could do nothing to compel the Roman

Government against their will to receive this gentleman and
his spirits. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
Mr HEN NESSY said that Mr Home was a gentleman
who stated that he had intercourse with spirits, who fore-
told future and related past events, and he believed that he
accepted fees for his seances. [Mr Roebuck—Never.] Sup-
pose he had done so. [Mr Roebuck—Suppose he had not.]
(Laughter.) What, however, he wished to point out was
that in this country we now had very stringent laws against
conduct similar to thatsof Mr Home. Fortune-tellers and
persons attempting to foretel events were liable to be taken
up and punished by our laws. He would not discuss whether
our laws or the laws of Rome were sound or not. What he
asserted was that in each case they were founded on the
same principle. There were a great number of English
residents at Rome every year, and he had heard many of
them state that nothing could exceed the courtesy and at-
tention they always received from the Papal Government.
(Hear.) This was the only complaint he had ever heard of
against that Government, and he was glad to learn that
her Majesty's Government thought it was not well
founded. (No.)

Mr SCITLLY said the hon. member for Sheffield had
made a mistake in bringing that complaint against the
Roman Government. That Government and Mr Home
were quite agreed ; the only difference between them was
as to these spirits—(laughter)--for whose good behaviour
that gentleman could not be answerable. The only persons
to blame were the obscene spirits in the habit of calling
occasionally on Mr Home. (Laughter.) The hon. member
for Sheffield said he had a great respect for " the old gentle-
man" at the head of the Roman Government. That was not
a decent mode of reference, and it was not justifiable on the
hon. member's part, even although he had a bigotted pre-
judice against Catholics. (Mr Roebuck signified dissent.)
The house had been occupied all that eveniag• with spirits,
and nothing but spirits—(laughter)—and he thought they
had had enough of them. (Hear, hear.) The President of
the Board of Trade had left the house, not liking, perhaps,
to face the spirits on that occasion. (A laugh.) The hon.
member for Sheffield had asked what Earl Russell would
do if an English merchant, not a gentleman, had his head
cut off at St. Petersburg. Why, he would do exactly what
he had in regard to Mr. Home—nothing. Russia was too
strong to go to war with. But if the merchant who was
not a gentleman had his head cut off by the Roman
Government, Earl Russell would then go to war, because
the Roman Gove nment was weak. The hon. member for
Sheffield must know, as a lawyer, that the Roman Govern-
ment in this case had acted within its strict right. Eng-
land used to extirpate Papists, as she called them, at her
pleasure, without receiving any remonstrances from foreign
Powers. The men thus sent away were not even foreigners,
but their own countrymen. As for foreigners, England
had always excluded them whenever she liked, on any
excuse or on no excuse. He trusted they would not have
a renewal of that night's exhibition; and he could not see
what on earth could have been the hon. member for
Sheffield's object, unless it were the propagation of his
extraordinary doctrines.
The house then went into a Committee of Supply on the
Civil Service Estimates, when a great many votes were
agreed to, after much discussion.
The proposed vote of £4,000 for a lunatic asylum in the
Isle of Man was negatived upon a division by 95 to 73.