The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-24 00:00:00

THE S'U N,

and. he was bound to say, of the last also, in reference
to this most important question, was not at all influenced
by the, information to which he had referred. If the
Hon. esitleman thought that the contending claims
between Turkey and Egypt had only for their foun-
dation a conspiracy of discarded workmen from Egypt,
he could easily understand from what sources the Hon.
Gentleman obtained information of that description; but
those claims were founded on existing treaties, on the
interpretation of those treaties, on the laws of the
country, and on traditionary interests of the utmost im-
portance. It was impossible for the Government to ac-
cede to the motion, which, if adopted, would lead to the
production of a variety of information referring to ne
gotiations now pending. The attention of the Govern
meat of this country was of course directed to the settle-
ment of the mutual relations that should subsist between
Turkey and Egypt, with a due conviction of the great
importance to the interests of this country, and of the
world generally, that those relations should be estab-
lished on a proper and legitimate basis. He felt it his
duty, therefore, to oppose the motion of the Hon. Gen-
tlemen, and he del so on the intelligible and simple
ground that the transactions to which be referred were
in ac imperfect state, and that it would have a most in-
jurious effect on the public service if those papers were
produced.
Lord J. RUSSELL entirely agreed with the Right
Hon. Gentleman that this was a subject of the highest
importance and delicacy, and thought he was quite right
in opposing this motion. He thought the Hon. Gentle-
man who made this motion was mistaken as regarded
the guarantee of England. This country was a pert), to
the settlement of Egypt as an hereditary pashalic in the
family of Mehemet Ali, but by no means guaranteed the
conditions on which the relations between the Sultan and
the Pasha should subsist. The interference of this
country was a matter of the utmost delicacy. We were
on the most friendly terms with the Sultan and with the
Pasha of Egypt, and we might therefore not only give
counsel generally, hut might even advise the Sultan to
allow the Pasha the power of inflicting capital puniehe
went, without reference to Constantinople, if we thought
proper to do so; but, at the same time, such inter-
ference could only be received as the counsel of a friend,
and only by being couched in the most conciliatory
terms could such advice be well received. He could not
but think that the production of these documents would
tend to prevent the success of the object in view, and
that it would be better to leave the matter in the hands
of the Executive. No man was better fitted than our
Ambassador at Constantinople to manage such affairs,
and if instructions were given to him by the Government
at home they would be faitufully executed by that distin-
guished person.—(Hear.)
Mr. FIUME said that in 1839 we dispatched to Egypt
50 sail-of-the-line to conquer the Pasha and to place
Egypt under the Sultan, with the guarantee of England
and France that certain powers should be continued to
the Pasha. There were documents in which it appeared
that the Sultan, while he was speaking in the fairest and
most flattering manner, was preparing troops to over-
whelm Egypt, but England stepped in at the risk of the
peace of Europe and carried by force of arms success to
the Sultan, on the condition. that certain rights should
be secured to the Pasha. He regrettei to fled that there
appeared to be an intention to destroy the treaty so
guaranteed; but, as the Right Hon. Gentleman said the
prt duction of these documents would be injurious to the
public service, he trusted his llon. Friend would with-
draw his motion for the present.
Mr. MILNES did not believe that the Noble Lord the
late Foreign Secretary would ever consent to the inter-
pretation of the treaty, that England was to guarantee
the independence of Egypt—(Hear, hear)—that it would
necessarily enforce the maintenance of it; but he be-
lieved the Noble Lord and the public sense of diplo-
macy in England agreed that the parties to that ar-
rangement were morally bound by every means
in their power to support the Pasha of Egypt
in just and independent authority.—Heir, hear.)
At the same time, he must say it was hardly
fair to look upon this question without considering
in some degree that the edict lately put forth by the
Sultan was a very great advance in the civilization of
that part of the world. Since that edict had been pro-
mulgated, not only had the Christian people living under
the dominion of the Sultan been treated in a totally
different manner from that in which they were before
treated, but the principles of good government had been
established to a great extent. If the Pacha of Egypt
could so put his case to the Court of Constantinople as
to make it appear that be would only allow capital
punishment to follow on a just trial and fair conviction,
he did not believe that the Sultan would deny to the
Paoha the power which her Gracious Majesty committed
to the hands of the governors of our own colonies. With
regard to the question of railroads, he could not conceive
that the Sultan could ever have seriously contemplated
the prevention of such a great improvement in what
might still be considered his own dominions. He be-
lieved that the present Yachts had the real welfare of
Egypt at heart, and would try to improve his country by
solid and practical reforms; and,
it the questions between
him and the Porte were left to the mediation of Sir S.
Canning and Mr. Murray, he (Mr. Milnes) believed that
they would be satisfactorily arranged.
Mr. ANDERSON, in reply, said, that after the ob-
servations of his Right Honourable Friend, he could not
think of pressing this motion. As to the delicacy of the
question, however, he must say that no such delicacy was
shown in 1839, when the Pacha had the Sultan prostrate
at his feet. The Hon. Gentleman who had last spoken
bad referred to the mediation of Sir S. Canning and Mr.
Murray, but there was a general opinion that they did
not pull well together, though in his (Mr. Anderson s)
opinion, Mr. Murray was pulling the right way. The
railroad that was wanted in Egypt was the railroad be-
tween Cairo and Suez—the other was entirely for the
internal improvement of Egypt; but the Pacha could not
make either of these railroads unless he had the permis-
sion of the Porte to do it. He believed that never had
there been a Pacha of Egypt who had effected so mach
practical good for his country as the present. He had
remitted taxation to the amount of 1,500,0001. sterling,
and had relieved the people from the bondage they were
them to go to any part of the country
in by allowing
they pleased. With respect also to capital punishments
in Egypt, he found that during the three years preced-
ing the reign of the present Pacha the number was six-
teen per annum, while during the three years afterwards
it was only seven.
The motion was then withdrawn.
THE TOWN OF ENNIS.
The O'GORMAN MAHON then rose for the pur-
pose of calling the attention of the House to the subject
matter of the petition presented from the town commis-
sioners of Ennis. The Hon. Gentleman said that the
gentlemen from whom the petition emanated were com-
paratively personally distnterested, and that their mos
•
Live in addressing that House was to obtain,through it
medium, protection from the deep wrong iuflicted on the
pier of the town of Ennis. The river Fergus ran
through the town, taking its source about eight or nine
miles above it. A loan was obtained by the proprietors
in the neighbourhood of the town for the Board of
Works to effect the drainage of the lands near the river;
but, instead of commencing an outlet to facilitate the
exit of the water, at the instigation of the gentlemen
named in the petition, they deepened the river near its
source, and thus, by collecting all the water superabun-
dant on the adjacent lands, created a facility for
inun-
dating the town of Ennis.—(A laugh.) Under these
circumstances, the petitioners prayed the House to
insist on the Commissioners of the Board of Works
completing the work they had undertaken. He had,
year after year, impressed this matter on the late ,Go-
vernment, and believed that the Right lion. Baronet near
him had, at last, been disposed to meet the wishes of the
people of Ennis to a certain extent. What he asked
from the Chancellor of the Exchequer was a loan, to be
advanced on the security of the tolls of the town of
Ennis, an arrangement to which be had no doubt that
the owner of those tolls
(Colonel Wyndbam) would
assent. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving
that the Board of Works in Ireland be directed forth-
with to proceed with the completion of the drainage
above the town of Ennis.
Sir C. WOOD said, that he had on former occasions
pointed out to his Hon. Friend that, before anything
could be done practically in the matter, it would be
necessary to have a Bill passed under which local Com-
missioners could be appointed for administering any
loan that the Government might make for the desired
purports.
Tho CHANCELLOR,of the EXCHEQUER said he
had had an opportunity that day of reading the
petition only
enforced by the Hon. Gentleman opposite, but
it appeared from the petition itself that the fault of the
non-progress of the works rested not with the Board of
Works, but with the proprietors of the locality, who had
refused that second assent which was required by the
Arterial Drainage Act. The Hon. Gentleman should
appeal, therefore, rather to those proprietors than to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer.
pro-
prietors O'BRIEN said, that the reason why the _
had refused their second assent was, that the
Board of Works had expended the first grant allowed
for the improvement
t
remu-
nerate them to advanceot)se their money.
t
futile tha of the Fergus in a manner so en-
tirelyproprietors saw it would not
Mr. NAPIER
had arisen under the Drvraeid, that the greatest confusion
de-
voting his attention to thenage subject, and he hoped before
elea
Act. He had been
msuent to have prepared
the meeting of the new
whicht would enable
some simple and intelligible ue
these works to be satisfactorily exereeutei
Mr. GROGAN expressed his satisfaction
oneart thed state-
ment just made by the Right Hon. and
Attor-
ney General, for under the system that had heenne
of late great hardship had been inflicted upon the Irish
landed proprietors. In almost every case the estimated
expense of these works had been greatly exceeded, and
in some oases the amount had been nearly trebled.
The O'GORMAN MAHON briefly replied. Until
that evening he had never heard a word about the mode
of settling the question by brining in a i, but now
that that course hod been euggeeg tcd h© looßklled upon his
object as accomplished, and intimated his intention of
introducing a Bill at as early a period as possible.
Thh motion was then withdrawn.
BORNEO.
Mr. HUME moved an address for a copy of a letter
from Mr. Robert Burns to Viscount Palmerston, dated
Singapore, the 28th day of June, 1851, with its en-
closures, complaining of the obstructions and discou-
ragements he had received to his commercial affairs in
Borneo at tho hands of her Majesty's Commissioner
and Consul-General to the Sultan and independent
chiefs of Borneo, while prosecuting his lawful commer-
cial proceedings in that country; together with a copy
of any answer thereto. He believed his Hon. Friend
near him (Mr. Drummond) was anxious to take that op-
portunity of renewing an old debate with reference to
There
Sir J. Brooke, but he begged to assure his Bon. Friend
that his present motion had no reference to that ques-
tion,elrea
already
but
produced.was
merely
for papers
wouldn cboentaimnupaletiomnetadnss forome
renewing the old debate hererifser.
Mr. DRUMMOND said what be objected
to was his
R on. Friend'a putting repeated'
notices on the paper

LONDON,

which were not literally true, and implied censures, on
the merit of which the House had no means of forming
a judgment. For instance, the lion. Gentleman set
down in his notice that Mr. Burns was prosecuting
hie lawful commerciel proceedings," whereas, in point
of fact, he was propogating mischief at the instance of
the society which was assisting the Hon. Gentleman
near him. It unfortunately happened when that gen-
tlemse, Mr. Burns, fell into the hands of these Bor-
neau pirates, and lost his ship and his head in conse-
quence, that he also last a portion of his journal,
which showed pretty clearly the nature of the " com-
mercial proceedings" in which he had been engaged. He
had not the slightest objection to enter on this debate
whenever his Hon. Friend chose to bring it on, but
he did object to the repeated insinuations which these
repeated notices of motion bore upon the face of them.
It certainly was surprising that the Hon. Gentleman,
who was esteemed as a man of general benevolence and
kindness, should ba possessed of this monomania, that
there was nothing so delightful as blackening the cha-
racter in that House of one of the most deserving public
servants that the country ever had.
Mr. DUMB denied that he had any other object in
view than to obtain legitimate information, and he
asked the House whether there was ono word of insinua-
tion or rtthction upon the character of any man in the
notice which he had moved for?

The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. HENLEY obtained leave and brought in a Bill
to enable her Majesty to carry into effect arrangements
made with foreign powers for the apprehension of sea-
men who desert from their ships, which was read a first
time. _ .

Oa the motion of Mr. FREWEN, a Bill was brought
in and road a first time, to promote the building of
churches in benefices that have no church, and to pre-
vent the union of benefices above a certain value.
MANCHESTER AND SALFORD EDUCATION