The Sun.
London, England, 1852-12-10 00:00:00

arrangement. What he had said about finality was upon
the general principle of attempting finally to settle fiscal
questions by the votes of this house.
Mr. MOFFAT asked whether the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer intended the refining in bond to extend to foreign
as well as colonial sugar, and whether it was to be com-
pulsory or optional ?
Lord STANLEY said that the questions of the hon. gen-
tleman were of great importance, and would, doubtless, be
answered by his right hon. friend (the Chancellor ofthe
Exchequer, who was absent) when the subject should come
before the house. He (the noble lord) had no wish to pro-
long this debate, which appeared to be rapidly dying a na-
tural death, but there was some little discrepancy in the
views of hon. gentlemen on the other side. The hon.
member for Westbury (Mr. Wilson) had attempted to
prove that the West Indian colonists were not suffering at
all. Immediately afterwards another hon. gentleman
arose, on the same side, admitted their sufferings, and
ascribed them to a great social change. To this the
hon. member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) added, by way
of consolation, that the existing class of proprietors
must be entirely replaced by another. He (Lord Stanley)
would state, in reply to the observations which had been
made by honourable gentlemen, that which he should have
thought from the general policy of the Government, it
was quite unnecessary for him to say—namely, that the
settlement of 1846, as modified by that of 1848, was re-
garded by them as a final one, and that they had now no
intention whatever to reimpose a system of differential
duties. By a final settlement he did not mean that it was
not to be conclusive ; but .no power could induce the
Legislature of a free country to adopt a compulsory po-
licy for all time to come. At the same time there was
not the slightest intention on the part of Government of
interfering in any way to prolong that differential duty
which was now about to expire. (Hear, hear.) There-
fore, under those circumstances, he could not look on
this motion, or the debate to which it had given rise, as
bearing practically on any policy which was now about
to be adopted. It was neither more nor less than a chal-
lenge—a fair challenge—fairly thrown out to members on
the Government side of the house. The hon. gentleman
said, in effect—" Yon were wrong in the view you
took of the act of 1846, and we were right ; and now
we call upon you to admit the fact that you
were in error." If it were really made a charge against
them (the Government) that they did not, from the very
first moment of the passing of the act of 1846, admit it to
be a final settlement, or one conducive to the prosperity of
the colonies, that was an imputation tinder which they
might very well be content to lie ; for that censure at-
tached not only to them and those who habitually voted
with them, but it attached equally to that great statesman
whom it was impossible not to recognise as the real if not
the nominal author of the act of 1846. It would not be
disputed that Sir Robert Peel practically carried that act,
through the house ; for had he and his supporters op-
posed it the Government would not have been able to
carry it. While supporting /that measure, Sir It. Peel
distinctly declared that ho entertained serious appre-
hensions as to what its consequences might be, and
that the only thing which induced him to support it
was, the political consideration how far its passing or
its rejection would affect the state of parties • thus prefer-
ring a less claim to a greater, a less important to a more
important interest. Taking the act of 1846, in con-
nexion with previous acts, he would be a bold man who
would say that that policy had been otherwise than un-
just. He did not deny that he had entertained expectations
as to the evils of the act of 1846, which had not been
realised. But looking at that measure, not as it was seen
now by the light of experience, but as it appeared then, he
contended that it was rash and unjust. Mr. Wilson had
made rather light of the alleged distresses of the West India
planters ; but the report of a local commission of inquiry
issued by the Governor of British Guiana in 1850, spoke of
the wholesale abandonment of property, and the disappear-
ance of all marks of civilisation as results of the legislation
of 1846. Statistics furnished by that commission showed
that 42,000 out of 80,000 of the inhabitants only were pro-
ducers, and of these 20,000 had since emigrated, leaving
only little more than 20,000 engaged in productive labour.
He admitted that in the last 12 or 14 months there was a
considerable improvement ; still he must deny the propo-
sition that there was no such thing as general di*
tress. The statement of the Governor of Jamaica,
which had been read, on the last day of last year,
proved that great distress still existed ; and so late as
August last, he stated that the revenue did not meet the
public expenditure, though it had been reduced one-third.
Where the wages of labour were not exorbitant, he ad-
mitted that the colonies were more prosperous than they
had been for years past. To re-impose a differential duty,
so as to benefit the colonies that were suffering, was a po-
litical impossibiity. (Hear, hear.) There had been a
most gratifying change in the last few months, arising out
of the suppression of the Brazilian slave trade ; that trade
was now utterly extinguished ; and there was a prospect
of free labour being employed also in Cuba, by the impor-
tation of Chinese. Should this be the case, the prosperity
of our West India colonies would be greatly increased.
He hoped this was the last time on which the sugar duties
would be discussed in that house.
The motion was then agreed to.
THE YARMOUTH PETITION.
Mr. M. GIBSON presented a petition from the gentle.
men who had signed the recognisances in the petition of
Mr. M'Cullagh against the sitting members for Great Yar-
mouth, stating that they believed they had bound them-
selves by the recognisances they had signed, regretting that
the sureties had been declared insufficient, and praying the
house to redress the grievance under which they laboured,
and to take means for preventing that recurrence in future.
The right hon. gentleman said he wished to call the atten-
tion of the house to the petition presented by Mr. M'Cul-
lagh, who claimed tohave been electedfor Great Yarmouth,
and who disputed the return. (The right hon. gentleman
read the petition, which has been printed with the votes.)
He did not ask the house to review the decision of the examiner
of recognisances, or to pass any opinion as to its validity, or in
anyway to sit as a court of appeal. He was well aware that the
decision of theexaminer in these matters was final and con-
clusive. His object was to show that, on the face of these
proceedings, circumstances had arisen which rendered it
necessary for Parliament to consider whether it might not
be necessary to amend the act itself under which proceed-
ings were taken in reference to the trial of election peti-
tions. The reason of the decision was, that the words
" sitting members" were used instead of " sitting mem-
ber." On the same day the examiner had reported that a
similar recognisance, in which the words "sitting mem-
bers" were also used, was unobjectionable. But the objec-
tion being taken in the case of Great Yarmouth, he de-
cided that that objection was valid, and therefore fatal to
any further proceedings with the petition. He did not
mean to reflect, in the slightest degree, upon the
examiner of recognisances ; no doubt he had endea-
vovered to discharge his duty conscientiously, in re-
ference to what he believed to be the requirements
of the act of Parliament. But he (Mr. Gibson) found
fault with the act itself, and asked that it should
be amended. Petitioners would be placed in a great
difficulty if there was no power of amending technical
objections to recognisances. In this case the peti-
tioner had found his sureties ; nobody contended for a
moment that they were not good and substantial
sureties, and capable of undertaking all the liabilities re-
quired by the act. The fifth clause of the act gave the
form of the recognisance, and added, " With such altera-
tions as may be necessary to adopt such form to the cir-
cumstances of each case," clearly showing that the act con-
templated necessary alterations. There ought to have been
a power in the act to enable the examiner to amend, and
to call on the sureties to sign the amended form, so that
they might still be liable for costs, if the decision was
against them. The motion he had to submit was in the
following terms :—" That a select committee be appointed
to inquire into the operation of 11 and 12 Vic., cap.
98, as regards recognisances, and to report their opinion to
the house whether it is expedient to amend that act." The
14 days having expired, it was out of Mr. M'Cullagh's
power to present a new petition. Another circumstance
in this case was, that the hearing of the objection was
taken at an earlier period than the stipulated three days
after notice of the objection. He (Mr. Gibson) brought
forward this matter solely on public grounds, in order that
technicalities might not be allowed to stand in the way of
justice.
housee
yearsnMa i inorn.s
tato:tioh
ifynitstLh,Nevitoeo
ph(rteLtiiEhnn
iwesaoi aptlihi
racaluoyhbf
e whatser
of
Mr. HUME seconded the motion.
wasthgelapdettiteomn,owtihoinchwaasskneodtthine
theeu t
subsequent
u examinerit hadlva
sb had'e
peul:ooensxeepl.
expressed
eFps Four
vided that the decision of the examiner as to the rnog-
nisances should be final and conclusive. Such being' the
law, the last thing for the house to do would be to undo
what it had taken so much pains to establish. The hon.
gentleman said that a distinction had been made by the
examiner between the Great Yarmouth case and the
Bridgenorth case; but in the latter, the objection never
was raised ; consequently, the examiner had no opportu-
nity of giving an opinion one way or the other. When
Great Yarmouth case came on, the agents for the
sitting member took the objection, and the examiner
decided against the sufficiency of the recognisances. It
was said there had not been the regular three days' notice.
He found that notice was given on the 23d, and the case
was heard on the 26th. This being so, the hon. gentleman
had exercised a proper discretion in not founding his mo-
Lien on the prayer of the petition. He asked for a select
committee; and the Government had no objection to such
comieitteo being appointed. But as there were a great
many 4ection petitions, he thought it better to defer the
appointment of this committee a few days, as other tech-
nical difficulties might arise on other petitions which might
also be referred to the same committee. The committee
would also have to consider whether recognisances might
not sometimes be loft purposely informal ; as well as to
draw a distinction between formal objections and those
which went to the substance. Perhaps it might be well.
in some cases, to require the deposit of an amount suffi-
cient to cover the costs, so as to afford the requisite secu-
rity to the sitting members.
After a few words from Sir H. "V.ILLOUGHBY and Mr.
Mr. GIBSON, the motion was agreed to.
On the motion of Sir H. WILLOUGHBY the following
return was ordered :—Copy of any information that can be
obtained by the Poor Law Board, as to relief out of the
poor rate to parties on the ground of being "out of work,"
or in aid of wages ; stating the number of such parties, and
the amount of such relief, in any of the unions in Englan(
and Wales.

neous decrease of home-grown sugar, and a depression in
price wholly unparalleled in the history of the sugar trade;
and he was not ashamed to say that he was on that state of
things that he was prepared to appeal to Government, and
had it not been for the change of Government, which
almost deranged their proceedings, he should have ap-
pealed to Parliament to afford redress for this state of
things. But what was the state of things now ? It was a
state of things which the hon. gentleman himself could not
have anticipated. He most cordially wished that this state
of things might go on. He found that in the ten months of
the year 1851 ending in October, the British sugar entered
for home consumption was 2,250,168 cwts., and in the ten
months ending in October, 1852, this had risen to 3,085,252
cwts., showing an enormous increase. And what did he
find in respect to foreign sugar? Why that the foreign
sugar retained for home consumption in the first ten
months of 1851, which was 1,089,723 cwts., had fallen
more than one-half in the first ten months of 1852, the
quantity then being only 480,540 cwts. The figures were
completely reversed. Foreign sugar had decreased, Bri-
tish sugar had increased, and there had been a simulta-
neous improvement in the price, which, instead of being
18s. sd. as it was in the beginning of April, had risen .to
255. La. in the last week in November. Well, then, he
had no hesitation in avowing that, whatever his views of
the policy of 1846 and 1848 might be, that, looking at the
solemn decision of Parliament on this subject—looking at
the extent to which the comfort of the home producer was
concerned—he certainly could not be a party to asking the
House of Commons to revoke this policy. Whether he was
out of office or in office did not make the slightest differ-
ence ; but these figures had so changed the aspect of the
question that he could be no party, under such circum-
stances, in coining to that house to ask for an increase in
the protection. But, much as he wished it, he would not
conceal from the hon. gentleman and the house that he was
not sanguine with regard to the continuation of this state
of things. He believed there were two causes to which this
state of things might be in a large measure attributed—
one was, that the crops in Cuba and Porto Rico had con-
siderably decreased. Another cause he believed to be that
the ruinously low prices in the spring of this year drove
•
away the sugar from our market to the United States.
The hon. gentleman would perhaps say that this would not
account for the increase of the British colonial sugar. He
admitted that ; but he believed that that increase was to
be attributed to the fact that, while the crops in Cuba and
Porto Rico had failed, the crops in the West Indies had
• been remarkably the reverse. On the other hand, he was
most willing to admit, and he was glad to hear the
honourable gentlemen allude to, the energy, the vigour,
and the good spirit which, under the most adverse cir-
cumstances, had distinguished the British colonist. From
a return in the exports in January, 1831, and January,
1851, it appeared that those from Jamaica had fallen off
upwards of 1,41)0,000 cwts., to 627,768 cwt. Barbadoes,
however, was exporting much more ; and the exports of
Trinidad were also greater than they had been under
slavery. British Guiana, although it exported less than
during slavery, had made a great effort ; and he was
upon the whole to take a most favourable view of four (m-
a the five principal sugar producing colonies. The stilt(
of those colonies, namely, British Guiana, Trinidad, Barba•
does, and Mauritius, showed that this must be regarded
mainly as a labour question. (Hear, hear.) Barbadoes
was abundantly supplied with labour, and consequently it
had both greatly increased its produce, and cheapened its
rate of production. (Hear, hear.) Still he was not over
sanguine. [The right hon. gentleman then quoted a dis-
patch from Governor Higginson, of Mauritius, who ex-
pressed an opinion that, owing to a combination of fortu-
nate circumstances, and the increasing self-reliance of
the planters, their hopes for the permanent prosperity of
the colony, were in the course of fulfilment, and he trusted
would at no distant day he realised ; but he went on to say
that he made this statement with great diffidence, for he
could not overlook the severity of the competition to which
they were subjected.] Owing to their proximity to India,
the colonists had been able to procure a large supply of
coolies, and they might by that means triumph over their
difficulties. (Hear, hear.) With regard to British Guiana,
the planters had not taken up the whole of the grant of
500,000/. allotted to them, but they had taken 350,0001. of
it, ,and with that assistance he hoped they also would be
able to struggle through. With respect to Trinidad, Lord
Harris wrote, that though his own feeling had formerly
been against immigration, he now perceived the enormous
advantages resulting from it; and he emphatically added,
that under God, it would be to immigration that the saving
of the colony would be,attributa.ble. (Hear, hear.) He
(Sir J. Pakington) would render all honour to the planters.
They had lowered the cost of cultivation in Trinidad fully
one-third, and they had also reduced wages. From the re-
turns of the stipendiary magistrates, which were perhap'
the most reliable evidence on the subject—though every
thing of this nature must be taken with great caution—
the average rate of wages in Trinidad had been lowered
from is 6,1 to is ; in British Guiana from 2s 5d to is 4d ;
in Barbadoes from Is lAd to likl ; and in Jamaica from 2s
ld to is sd. The planters had laid down tramroads and
had introduced machinery. They had, in fact, at a very
large expenditure, done all they could to meet the difficul-
ties in which they were placed. (Hear, hear.) Taking
then, these favourable circumstances into consideration,
and remembering also the extraordinary change of figures
which had taken place in the sugar markt, h must repeat
that this was not the moment at which anye Government
could advocate a return to the differential duties.
(Cheers.) But still he was far from being sanguine with
regard to the state of these colonies., He was con-
vinced that they still required all the assistance which
the imperial and local Governments could give. One
of the first things required by the colonies watt to obtain
labour to the utmost extent ; but the permission to
refine sugar in bond was likewise an act of justice, and
ought to be conceded to them. (Hear, hear.) He would
not detain the house with any details as to the mode in
which the proposal should be carried out, for his right hon.
friend (Mr. Disraeli), when the proper occasion should ar-
rive, would afford them all the necessary information ; but
it was well known that between the superior sugars of
Cubs. and Brazil, the Muscovado sugars of the West Indies,
and the coarse inferior sugars of the East Indies, there was
so great a difference in quality that, if they put an equal
duty upon the raw article, they were in fact giving a
differential duty to the foreigner. (Hear, hear.) The
proposed boon was, therefore, not only an act of jus-
tice, but would be found to afford the colonial interests an
important measure of relief. (Hear, hear.) He was sorry
to say that he could not quit the subject without advert-
ing to the depressed and half-ruined state of Jamaica,
than which nothing could be more deplorable. In a dis-
patch received from the Governor Sir Charles Grey during
the last year he found that the planters were half maddened
by their distress and by their apprehensions of ruin im-
p_endin,g. When, therefore, the hon. gentleman opposite
- (Mr. Wilson) spoke of the British colonists not suffering
distress, he (Sir J. Pakington) need only refer to the em-
phatic expression of a governor of long experience, who
spoke of them being " half-maddened." (Hear.) In
another place the governor stated that the depression of
the planting interest, arising from the alteration of our
policy, was becoming more and more permanent ; that the
finances of the colony were growing from bad to worse;
that the revenue had long since ceased to equal a greatly
reduced expenditure ; and that the debt had grown, in five
years, from 580,000/. to 750,000/. (Hear.) The misery of the
island had been greatly aggravated by one of the
most dreadful visitations that had ever happened to a
country. The cholera had fallen on the colony with
almost unparalleled severity. The actual loss was esti-
mated at 40,000, and the loss of field hands was at least
20,000. The financial condition of the island was as
bad as possible. Not only had the debt increased since
1847 from 580,000/. to 750,0001-
for several ;not only had the revenue
years been less than the expenditure, but for
several years the interest on the loan from this country had
not been paid ; and he was afraid that he must pronounce
the island in a state of national insolvency. (Hear, hear.)
Under these circumstances it was the intention of the Go-
vernment to send out a commissioner to inquire into the
state of the island and report. (Hear, hear.) There was
.
a serious defect in the constitution of that country, viz,,
the manner in which the money votes were brought in and
passed. Instead of being proposed by the Government,
they were moved and supported by any member of the Le-
' gislature. This was a most alarming state of things ; and he
(ir J. Pakington) could not conceive a country in a more
depressed condition, both socially and politically. Of course
there could be no differential duties established for Jamaica
along; and the Government had therefore resolved, as the
period of Sir Charles Grey's office was now approaching its
termination, to send out a commissioner to inquire into and
report upon what reforms and changes would be moss
likely to restore prosperity. Gloomy as the state of Ja•
maim was, he did not regard it with despair. He believed
that, with judicious alterations, with a judicious arrange-
ment of the finances, and with those reforms which were
so tryingly necessary, there was reason to hope that the
island might yet be saved from the ruin that seemed to
hang over it. He could not, however, retract the censures
which lie had so often passed upon the legislation of 1846.
(Cheers.) He still thought that that legislation was
most precipitate and rash. He did not dispute the
benefit which it had done to the home consumer ; but,
as he had before recently remarked, it was not just to
benefit one class at the expense of another. He had said
that with regard to the landed interest—an interest which
was strong, powerful, here on the spot, amply represented
Parlia:mant, and able to defend its own rights and
sorely the remark was tinfeld triWe applicable
to those di•itant colonists, wile 'were unrepresented in this
house and unable to defend themselves. (Hear, hear.) In
coaclusioa he would say that he approached the question in
the most disietercsted manner. He had no connexion
whatever with %'l Indian Property, and he approached
the subject solely front a feeling of his duty as a public
man to defend the rights of an interest which he saw in
danger. 11 the efforts of the colonists were successful, and
if the present state of improvement should prove perma-
nent, no one would more sincerely rejoice, or more wil-
lingly admit the fact. (Cheers.) He had not the least
objection to give the paper; asked for.
thlfr. EWART admitted the sufferings of the planters, but
ey bad arisen from the falee position in which the colo-
ingly been fox a lngthened period. He rejoiced exceed-
hear that acs mmissioner was to be sent out to
Jitiwaiea ; for when Malta had been for a long time in a de-
-131'"a• statteh, a corn' ;eissione; had been sent to the island,
and since
however,en it had been more prosperous. Ho must,
read thosecomplain that the right hon. gentleman had not
of Briti Pdtitsages in the blue book in which the Governor
The Guiana spoke of the gratifying prospects of that
colony.
enclosed, stated Tarrt. of Dr. Sherer which the Governor
mkt ?ree times the present amount of
sugar might be
0 d. in Guiana. Nor had the hon.
gentleman referred t
Prom these o
passages upon St. Vincent's
and Barbgoes.
conclude fra the rising e, passages they might fairly
petition would develop tlof a spirit of unrestricted com-
peti
At resources
of the colonies and
these were the onlyiraY* Cby apital, machinery,
energy—
whi h •
c relief could
be aiven te the colonists. It Was jea
suffe'ring and distress from any great
aoe
priiT to separate
had been the else with Ireland and snch had been the
Such
with the IVe3t, 1;1(1E03 ; but what he did proteent tat; pa.sse
was,
that th.) right hon. gentleman shenld bold os‘toalthet
plus tees 1.11 ive hopes, and unsettle that- which had] been
settled. (Hoer, hear.)
thei the ouse nor th
Mr' }[ITHEII.Wed Lha-
ile.ll of the right e e`iuntry
woe 1,1 infer from the 81)c..c1, I ]lopesbon. gentleman
,lelusive to the col •
that he had been hold-i"g "` •z ,h the finality of or that lie would f!tlehlpt to disturb
(Hear, hear.) o-
their
Fettlement of the West India question. (Hear,
duties ewaoritiHe
(Mr. Hume) ho-ee-1 that the ditnren i 1
hl be taught to debe-
abelihed, a:ld that the coloni wotu
pend upon themselves. At the same time, everything
(ight to be .lone to assist thorn and to remore from them
the the
1,1 Hence, he was
:-Indes by which they were dlelightedlnitli the proposal of Government as to refining
ill bend. (bear.) The right lion. gentleman seemed to
_
lament that all- the loans had not been taken up. He (1/1r •
Hume), meth() other hand, regretted that they had ever
been taken up at all; for the money had been lavished
away, and, what was worse, this country might never ex-
pect to see it returned. The only chance the colonies had
was that the different properties should fall into the hands of
new proprietors, who should only give a few dollars for that
which had cost thousands.
Sir J. PAKINGTON explained, that he had not the
• ightest intention to attempt the removal of the present

SELECT COMMITTEE ON RAILWAYS.
Mr. HENLEY nominated the following members as a
select 'committee on railways :—Mr. Henley, Mr. Hume,
Mr. W. Gladstone, Mr. Labouchere, Mr. Strutt, Mr. W.
Patten, Colonel Mure, Captain Jones, Mr. Deedes, Mr. M.
Milnes, Mr. E. Denison, and Mr. Laffan.

Mr. J. MACGREGOR complained that the railway in-
,erest was not sufficiently represented, and suggested the
.ddition of the name of Mr. R. Stephenson.
FREWEN concurred in the suggestion.
HENLEY had no objection to any addition which
tend to promote the object for which the committee
was appointed.

Mt,
wouli

Mr: aIIINDLEY would rather the committee were per-
fectly independent of the railway interest ; being confident
thit interest was quite powerful enough to take care of

largo,

TAXES

'EDGE

Wednesday, a deputation waited on the Earl of Derby,
at the Treasury, for the purpose of presenting to his
lordship an address from the Association for promoting
the Repeal of the Taxes on Knowledge. The deputa-
tion consisted of a large number of gentlemen interested
in the subject, and included Mr. Hume, M.P., Mr.
Milner Gibson, M.P., Sir John V. Shelley, M.P., Mr.
Ewart, M.P., General Sir De Lacy Evans, M.P., Mr.
Charles Forster, M.P.. &c., &c.
Mr. MILNER GIBSON introduced the deputation, ob-
serving that the present step had arisen from a resolu-
passed at a public meeting, to the effect that a deputation
should seek an interview with the Governmen, in order to
bring under their notice the anomalies of the Newspaper
Stamp Act. It was considered that the present was a
fitting opportunity for bringing forward this question, be-
cause the Government had introduced a measure into
Parliament with a view to extend the Stamp Act, the At-
torney-General havinggiven notice of a bill to that effect.
The members of the present association thought it de-
sirable that the Government should be put in posses.
sion of all the anomalies which now existed under the
law, and it was with this object that they had requested
his lordship to receive their deputation. For himself he
was in favour of a repeal of the Newspaper Stamp Act,
but his present purpose was simply to point out to the
Government the pernicious effects of the law, and to call
upon the Government to provide some adequate remedy
for the evil.
Mr. COLLETT presented an address to Lord Derby, in
the course of which the deputation put forward their
views as follows :—" It would detain your lordship too
long to listen to a lengthened statement of the many
mischievous effects of the newspaper stamp ; but we
may, perhaps, be permitted to notice a few of the most
glaring. It is a penalty on the record of facts,
on the history of to-day, on the events current
amongst us; and, to a very large extent, this penalty
amounts to a prohibition. The penny is 25 per cent.
on a fourpenny paper, but it would be 200 per cent.
on a halfpenny paper; yet a halfpenny paper would ex-
actly meet the wants of millions of the working classes,
because the price would suit their straitened means,
while the size would suit the limited time which
they can afford to give to reading. For want of this
stimulus, many hundreds of thousands in the agricultu-
ral and mining districts are unable to read at all, while
in the towns, the vacuum created by the suppres-
sion of facts, is filled up with fictions in which the pre-
dominant feature is an exaggerated portraiture of
the vices of the higher classes of society. Even
the private fictitious history of the Sovereign is given in
such publications, while it is forbidden by law to publish
those occurrences of her daily life which form the staple
of the Court Circular. All sorts of sedition or obscenity
may be published without a stamp. Attempts to throw
discredit on the personal character of the Sovereign and
arguments against monarchy as an institution are per-
mitted ; but to inform the public that her Majesty held
a drawing-room last week is illegal. A reference
to the evidence taken before the committee of the
House of Commons, which sat last year, will show that
the high price of newspapers has a tendency to promote
drunkenness, by obliging working men to go to the pub-
lic-house to hear the news read instead of reading it them-
selves at home ; and the tables published in the appen-
dix show that the greater part of the London daily press
is not supported by its readers, and is fast tending towards
extinction. The circulation of the daily press exclusive of
the Times was in 1846, 13,000,000, and in 1850 was only
8,719,840. We attribute this declension to the ne-
cessity which exists under the stamp that, every news-
paper should be printed at fivepence. The 6 and 7
Wm. IV., cap. 76, forbids any news to be published
without a stamp, and this is the opinion of the Board of
Inland Revenue, and of the present and late legal ad-
visers of the Crown. But it is not the opinion of the
Court of Exchequer, and it is therefore proposed by the
Attorney-General to permit news to appear in unstamped
monthly publications. If it be penal to publish news every
day or every week, we know not why it should be right to
publish it once a month. What is to prevent four per-
sons from so arranging their monthly publications as
to give their readers the advantage of a weekly paper ?
The Stamp-office would threaten their publisher with
the penalty for publishing in the middle of the month,
but will they sue for the penalty ? My lord, there
being doubts as to whether this clause is repealed
or not, the Stoke-upon-Teent Monthly Narrative is
published in the middle of the month, in order to
try the question. The Solicitor of Inland Revenue
has warned the publishers of the illegality of their
conduct, but has not 'accepted the challenge of their
attorney to commence a prosecution ; and the Attorney-
General has declared from his place in Parliament, that as
they only violate the law, but do not defraud the revenue,
he does not think it inconsistent with his duty to refrain
from a prosecution. Thus, my lord, the law is violated
by the express permission of your lordship's Government.
Nor does this stand alone ; the security clause, which was
enacted especially for small and cheap periodicals, is now
only enforced against stamped newspapers, leaving free the
very publications against which the clause was directed.
But this is not all. We have here a volume of un-
stamped weekly papers containing news every one of
which is liable to stamp duty. It appears to us that the
law is to be altered because the Government does not
like to obtain a decision against a work edited by Mr.
Chas. Dickens. There are other useful and popular
writers whom the Government would not like to put
down. Will your lordship engage in a crusade against
the Athenceunt, the Builder, the Legal Observer, the
Lancet, the Medical Times, or Punch ? And yet such
is the only consistent course if you continue the law
which imposes the stamp on weekly papers."
Mr- HUME was anxious to say a few words in ad-
dition to and in explanation of, the address. He
would direct his observations to two main points—the
state of the law and the cause of education. The
volume now before his lordship, containing a variety of
unstamped publications which disseminated news, com-
prised only a small portion of what might be collected,
but the object of presenting these examples to his lord-
ship was to show that publications were allowed for local
distribution without a stamp, and that if a stamp
were affixed to them they might be transmitted
throughout the country. Now this plan he considered
very simple in its operation, and in point of justice it
was one which ought to be generally adopted. The At-
torney-General had brought in a bill, and it was fit and
proper that the Government should be made acquainted
with the evils of a law that could not be satisfactorily
and consistently carried out. Out of some 200--or at
least 150—publications which appeared, there were
none which ought not, if justice were done, to be put
upon the same footing as the unstamped works before his
lordship. If, therefore, the Government had found
the necessity of asking for a grant of 150,0001., to ex-
tend the knowledge of the arts and sciences, and to
provide the community with those advantages which
had hitherto been denied them, the time had ar-
rived for them to re-consider these important mat-
ters. There was no reason whatever why the
publications to which he had alluded should be
exempt from the stamp ; and neither Mr. John
Wood, of the Inland Revenue, nor Lord John
Russell had been able to point out to him why they
should be regarded in a different light to other pro-
ductions which it' was thought necessary to stamp,
He would now remind his lordship of what he
must have observed during his visit to the -United
States. Newspapers were published upon such
a principle in that country that all persons were
enabled at a very small cost to obtain a paper containing
news connected with their own immediate interests and
with the particular locality in which they resided. Why I
not give to the people of this country the same advantages
which existed in the United States ? As regarded the
deficit which it was supposed the repeal of this tax would
The
trotp
i;nrovkol
nyede
enut
dsthoucuthli
local
nnhcl
number
guarantee
oypmpui
might
eb
esrgifinanceschaaotsttfh ieoetnxpnh
egseo:yovfcays
ttpndehar
government
imectrrholeeoudenssnt
ate
principle
country, yp
whatever
ao
s transmithtv
ee would
ianvdeenrdouftstampinghlamount
lbeyyy uc
pnsiarod enseutcor.rf-
lated in England amounted to 95,000,000 ; whereas in
America the number of newspapers annually was 430
millions—a circumstance that was to be accounted for
by the fact that in the latter country no stamp was con-
aidered necessary. He thought that the great impetus
and advantage which America, was rapidly gaining was
in a great measure to be attributed to its cheap press ;
in his opinion, the plan now proposed was one of
many means which ought to be adopted in this
country to remove that ignorance and to promote that
moral and religious knowledge which ought to exist in
every part of the country. The subject was one well
worthy of the serious consideration of Government, and
he trusted that it would ere long receive due attention
from the Administration.
Mr. ENVART, M.P., cordially supported the proposi-
tion, as being most conducive to the interests of public
education and public order.
Mr. Digby Seymour, M.P., Sir J. V. Shelley, and
other gentlemen having offered a few observations in
favour of the objects of the deputation,
The Earl of DERBY said he had listened with
great attention to all that had been said, but
it was not to be expected that he should enter
at once into the details of this great and complicated
question. There was one point, however, upon
which he was quite clear, viz., that the law upon this
subject as it at present stood, was not in
i a satis-
factory position, and whatever the law was t ought
undoubtedly to be plain, and simple, and effectual,
for the purposes for which it was intended.He
thought the present Government had shown no incli-
nation to discourage the dissemination of knowledge.
The question of these various taxes—more particu-
larly the advertisement duty was already under
their notice, although, from financial considerations,
they had been precluded at the present moment
from dealing with it. He was prepared, however, to
admit, and without undervaluing the importance of the
other branches of the subject, that the present adver-
tisement duty was of an objectionable character ; and he
should say, that if it were possible and consistent to
reduce or repeal it, one course or the other would meet
with the recommendation of Government. The subject
was one of great importance, and it would receive every
attention from himself and colleagues.
The deputation then retired.

acco:

and,

AGRICULTURAL PROSPERITY. —On Wednesday the
Exeter Christmas Cattle Fair was held. At this fair
there is usually a large number of agriculturists from
varijus parts of the neighbourhood, and capital stock is
always exhibited. On the present occasion there was a
large supply of splendid animals, and a brisk business
was done. Prices were first-rate. For prime beef
10s. 6d., and even lls. per 20 lbs. was given. A lot of
prime South Devon sheep sold at bid. per lb. This,
too, after the certain ruin which was predicted would
fall upon the farmers by the free trade measures.
DISCOVERY OP COAL AT CARRICKFERGUS.—The spirited
enterprise of the Marquis of Downshire, in working the
D untrue Mines near Carrickfergus, has been rewarded
with the discovery of its primary object, a seam of coal. ,

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 10, 1852.

BANK RETURNS.

(Frorn the London Gazette of Tuesday.

17,650

Rye Bank, Rye—R. C. Pomfret and Co.
Ross Old Bank, Herefordshire, Ross—Prich-
ards and Allaway
Saffron Walden and North Essex Bank, Saffron
Walden—Gibsons and Co.
Salop Bank, Shrewsbury—Burton, Lloyd, and
Co
Scarborough Old Bank, Scarborough—Woodall
and Co.
Shrewsbury Old Bank and Shrewsbury and
Ludlow Bank, Shrewsbury—Rocke, Eytons,
and Co.
Sittingbourne and Milton Bank, Sittingbourne
—Vallance and Co.
Southampton Town and County Bank, South-
ampton—Maddison and Pearce
Southwell Bank, Southwell—Wylde and Co
Southampton and Hampshire Bank, Southamp-
ton—Atherley, Fell, and Co.
Stone Bank, Stone—W. Moore
Stafford Old Bank, Stafford—Stevenson and
Co
Stamford and Rutland Bank, Stamford—Eaton,
Cayley and Co.
ei,uuu
Shrewsbury and Welshpool Bank, Shrewsbury
—Beck, Downward, and Co.
Taunton Bank, Taunton—H. and R. Badcock 24,455
Tavistock Bank, Tavistock—Gill and Rundle 11,187
Thornbury Bank, Thornbury—Rolph and Co. 6,2"5
Tiverton and Devonshire Bank, Tiverton—
Dunsford and Co.
Thrapston and Kettering Bank, Northampton-
shire—Thrapston, Yorke and Eland
Tring Bank and Chesham Bank, Tring—But-
cher and Son
Towcester Old Bank, Towcester—Percival and
Co
Town and County of Poole Bank and Ring-
wood and Poole Bank, Poole—G. W. Led-
gard and Sons
Union Bank, Cornwall, Helston—Vivian and
Co
Uxbridge Old Bank, Uxbridge—Hull, Smith,
and Co 14,449
Wallingford Bank, Wallingford—Hedges,
Wells, and Co,
Warwick and Warwickshire Bank, Warwick—
K. Greenway and Co.
Wellington Somerset Bank, Wellington—Fox,
Brothers, and Co
West Riding Bank, Wakefield, and Pontefract
Bank, Wakefield—Leatham, Tew, and Co
Whitby Old Bank, Whitby—Simpson, Chap-
man, and Co
Winchester, Alresford, and Alton Bank, Win-
chester—Bulpett and Co
Winchester and Hampshire Bank, Winchester
—Wickham and Co
Weymouth Old Bank and Dorchester Bank,
Weymouth—Eliott and Pearce
Wirksworth and Ashbourne Derbyshire Bank,
Wirksworth—Arkwright and Co 35,117
Wisbech and Lincolnshire Bank, Wisbech—
Gurneys and Co
Wiveliscombe Bank, Wiveliscombe—P. and
W. Hancock
Wolverhampton Bank, Wolverhampton—Good-
ricke and Holyoake
Worcester Bank, Worcester—Farley, Laven-
der, and Co
Worcester Old Bank and Tewkesbury Old
Bank, Worcester—Berwick, Lechmere, and
Co
Worcestershire Bank, Kidderminster--Farley,
Turner, and Co
Walsall Old Bank, Walsall—Charles Forster
and Sons
Wolverhampton Bank, Wolverhampton—R
and W. F. Fryer
Yarmouth and Suffolk Bank, and Halesworth
and Suffolk Bank, Yarmouth—Gurneys,
Birbeck, and Co
Yarmouth, Norfolk, and Suffolk Bank, Great
Yarmouth—Sir E. H. K. Lacon, Bart., and
Co
York Bank, York—Swann, Clough, and Co

27,806

12,989

24,528

35,187

11,625
14,639

10,563

11,559

COUNTRY MARKETS.

BOSTON Dm F.
t, We had a large supply of wheat at this day'
and all dry samples sold freely at an improverceni
3s per qr. on last week's prices, whilst parcels
dition must be noted is to 2s dearer, with 3 hi
Barley and oats were the turn higher. 13°31
dearer. Peas were firm at late rates. Wheat, red,
white, 48s to 50s, extra 52s ; barley, 26s to 3°B ,;.
to 20s ; beans, 32s to 39s ; peas, 28s to 33s per q.

NEWARK—DE°. 8.
At our Corn-exchange to-day we had s g°od
grain, with a brisk sale for wheat, at an advali„
4s per quarter. Spring corn remains unalt
white, 48s to 545, red 46s to 50s ; barley, grk
28s, malting 30s to 33s ; oats, 24st 22s to 258,
21s ; beans 40s to 425; peas 34s to 365; Wit
per quarter.

DERBY SMITHFIELD—DEC•
Beef, 4id to 5d ; mutton, Sid to 6d ; veal,
lb. ; pigs, 7s 9d to 8s Od per score ; rough
14 lbs. ; hides, 2d per lb. ; calf-skins, 2d to

DENBIGH—DEC. 8.
There was a dull sale of pigs at our cate°, tt.„
pig fair, although cattle and sheep went off Pre
In the grain market there was a further advance,
Wheat, 15s to 00s 2 • barley. lOs 6d to 004 i ,e3t
6s 6d per hobbet ; tub butter, 8/d to 8V
lOid to lld per lb.

RH Y L—Dne. 7.
Wheat, 16s ; barley, 10s 6d ; oats, 6s 6cli

EDINBURGH GRAIN—DEO. 8*
We had a good supply of grain in to-daY'e
were briskly effected, at prices above those
Wheat on the top 5s Od and the average 38 "
gda
on the top same as last week, and the average
the top is Bd, and the average lid up; bet.,,,
`"
2s, and the average is 2d up. Unsold, 48 cl—.
qrs. barley 23 qrs oats—and 22 qrs. beans. ,
Top of Wheat 64 lb !
8ar1ey.......
Oats
L., Beans 67 lb
6,905

8,678

9,305

9,294

23,51

5,570

45,465

14,573

Wheat
Barley,
Oats...
Beans.

Total Supply and Sales.
via
736 qrs
sold
1,341 qrs
1,020 qrs sold
.... 166 qrs sold

AVERAGES PER IMPERIAL QUARTO'.
Average of wheat X2 9
Ditto of Barley
Ditto of Oats

Ditto of Beans

1 16 7

6,086

1\,............................____
....p

DUBLIN—DEc. 8.
White wheat, 26s Od to 30s Od ; red ditto, .5
barley, 12s 6d to 15s 6d ; oats, 108 Od to 1106 a
21s Od to 23s per brl ; oatmeal 10s Od to 1?
flour, 14s 6d to 18s Od per cwt ; Indian corn, S'i
per 480 lbs.

\3cl

15,455

Ile!' 0
Brls.
core
71) t,.)
11 White wheat 25s 3d to 25s 6d Os Cia--
,
120 Redwheat 23s Od to 24s Od) 09.
51 Ditto
Ditto 24s Od to 25s Od 24s t3d--
Os Od to Os Od
282 Barley l3s Od to 14s 8d
34-'l6'9'
Ditto 00s Od to OOs Od} 14s
Ditto 00s Od to 00s Od
8 Bere l2s 10d to OOs Od 00 °ll
468 Oats 9s 6d to 9s 11d tiJ.} lid
345 Ditto 9s lid to 10s 2d 9s
108 Ditto 10s 2d to 10s 7d
6d pet ell'
39 Pigs 24s Od to 355 3d 340 ,IS
Quantity sold at the highest prices :--0 ire'
5 barrels white wheat ; 7 red ; 11 barley ;
oatsuantit ; 11 pigs. el.. OF
Quantity of grain and numberof pigs sold last t''',3eo S,
Wheat, 910. Barley, 2,640. Bere, 0. °3 -
Pigs, 1,824.

39,515

6,384

CORK—Dzo. 8.

10,566

7,193

C 7,362

9,654

11,198

36,635

11,315
43,964

PRICES OF BUTTER.
cusstliar. „•••''
First quality
Second quality
Third quality 7Bs Third quality .....9
Fourth quality
Fifth quality 6ss Fifth quality
Sixth quality s4s Sixth quality••••-••
Return of cattle sold for week ending De%,
Pigs, 1,064. Sheep, 189. COWS, 2, iv Ppi,
CORR.— Flour—First, 13s 6d to 14s 6d ; eltrPs;6l;
seconds, 12s 6d to 13s 6d ; households, 103 6d t° te,
7s 6d to 10s Od per cwt. Meal—lndian meal, lot pet,
oatmeal, lOs 6d to lls ; wheat meal, lOs to 110 0,51 e
Indian corn, 71 12s 6d to 71 17s 6d per ton. 131'a e
Os Od per ton. Hay—Farmers, 22s Od to 33s ~,
288 ; dealers, 32s Od to 40s Od ; average, Os per to° Olie
Farmers, 16s Od to 24s Od; average, 20s ; dealers, s{, 01'1
00s Od ; average Os. per ton. Bread—Wheaten
Od ; household ditto, 5d to Od per 41b. Fresh tri!
~vPii)
10d per lb. Eggs, 6s 10d to 7s Od per hundred. Mort, 01
4id to 7d ; mutton, 5d to bid ; veal, 4d to 6d ; Veirif°o;
Od ; bacon, 6d to 7d ; sausages, 5d per lb.—Fish, ,0 0.
14 pOO
land, 91. lOs to 101 Os per ton ; Scotch herring,' 9j; I
Red, do., 24s per brl.—Potatoes, white, 8d to ctO'lpi,
lld to 12d.—Coals, Newport, 20s ; Lydney, 205
Od per ton.—Whiskey, 25 0.p., 6s Od per imperP;ot,,o./
Hides, market, 22s to 28s ; Salted, 24s to 30s per
vet tL
skins, 3d per lb.—Bangor slates 21. 17s. 6d to 3f' 14u
Fleece wool, 16s to Oos per stone.—Hemp, 37",e1J0"p.'
ton—Timber, Memel, 31. lOs ; red pine, 31. sg; "AV
31. 15s. per ton ; deals, 151. to per hundred."l„
71. to 81. 10s. per ton.—Tallow, 49s to Oos per sw" 6r
71. lOs to 01. per cwt.—Tar, Archangel, Ds. per bri'
Peruvian, 101. 10s to 11/. per ton.

CANT.

SEABORNE MAILS.

(N signifies that the mails are sent from the aenerial
by the night—and M by the morning—dispatch.]

au u to uy we morning—dispatch.)
Day when made up From what 11,i0
COUNTRIES. in General Post- Port .
Office, London. Dispatched 14
-IC'
America (byFirit.pack.N Dec. 11.......... Liverpool.'"
America (by United Sts. Dec'
packet) ....... N Dec. 14 ... Liverpool '" 11
America (by U. itates
D I.'"c'
packet ............N Dec. 22 SoutliamP-
Australia (via South. il
ampton ....... 20th of each month SouthaMP.-- Dec.
Ditto (via Marseilles N 24th of the month Dover • yl
*Ditto (via Cape of Good
Hope) ............N 13th of December.. Plymouth " 01,
Africa (West Coast)..N 23rd of the month. Plymouth •. pee,'„
Alexandria* N 19th&30th of coon. Dover 00,16
Belgium ............N Dai1y....... Dover Dec•iti
Brazil .. M 9th of the month.. SoutharnPtan” pee'el
Buenos Ayres •th of the month.. SouthamPla. Aftl
California ......M id & 17th of month Southampton 50'0
(Cape of Good Hope ..N 14thof the month.. Plymouth '' 50'10
Cape de Verdis ......N 14thof the month.. Plymouth ••Dec•olot
Con•tantinople*.... N 7thl7th27thof mo.. Dover •• • Arrl,
Central America .... M 2nd & 17th of mon. Southampton ,ru• rpdi
Chill Channel Isles ........N Mon•Wed.&.Friday SouthamPtun Arfoe,"
..
France . M& N Twice daily Dover .• •• Per' 4,
Greece* ............N 7thl7th27th ofmon. Dover .. • • ,rae•7o7
Hamburgh ..........N Tuesday & Friday London •• • " 16„i
Holland ............M Wednesday & Sat London •• • Dec4o*
Honduras ........ N 17th of the month. SouthamPta' Tali' 0
Ireland ........M Be.'N Twice daily Holyhead •• • pee' if
India (viaSouthampt.)lll 20th of themonth.. SoutharaPta° pee'
India (via Marseilles) N SUM 24th:ef month Dover •• • • • '
India (via Cape of Good :4;0/' jo
H0pe).............M 14th of the month.. Plymouth • • ' /of'
Mauritius ..... ..... N 14th of the month.. Plymouth •• '
Mediterranean (via , Pee' if
Southampton .......M 20111 of the month., SouthamP*-- Dec„„
Ditto (via Marseilles).N Bth & 24th ofmonth Dover • • • •
Mexico AI 2nd of the month.. SouthamPtaDecpiti• iti
Madeira ..... M 9th&23dofthe mon. Southampton 10
Dec.;,
Ma1ta*............N 7th,17th,19th,27th,
&30th of the month Dover • • .• ' • De' 11
Napless N sthlsth24thofruon. Dover .. • • ** Dee' i 6
Papal Papal States* N sthlsth2sthofmon. Dover,• • Deaffri
Peninsula M Ithi7th27thoftnon. Southamptonoll 1,
Pent• 2d & 17th of month BoutharaPto' vrie:oll
Tuscany* sthlsth2sthof mon Dover .• • •
West Indies ...... ..M 2d & 17th of month SoutharuPta'
Van Diemen's Land (see
Australia) .......... aeef

(T
o b,
41. Pres(
ts,. 'the
Tathan

St,,xx,

* The mails for Australia via the Cape of Good Hope $,llO trig Uf
on the 2nd of every alternate mouth. Those made 111);,, 5041
and 24th of each month via Southampton and Marseilles ,
thei
sailing vessels at present from Singapore, but neat Y'V't
tit sent In steamers.
11103
t Mails are also made up on the 2nd of every alternate
_Ad pi
the Cape of Good Hope.
o Yer
* The mails to those countries thus narked (I) are - r
French packet to Marseilles.
A 00411'
DID WiLLTNGtON BEAT NAPOLEON ?--x. -toff
dent of the United Service Gazette sa s,—NaP°'-t 9,1).
as fairly beaten at Waterloo, as Hannibal was
When Sir Walter Scott was at Paris (1815), he esti°t
mitted to ask, and he did ask, the following ,c rePe:o
at his Grace's table, relating to Waterloo, and di` T °`',da
them as Sir Walter detailed them to me at 7,1' coyii
house :—" Suppose, your Grace, Blucher had kept :314:1
up ?" The Duke replied, " I could have ',:by A;-„J
ground till next morning." '‘ Suppose Grcill-Debl;o
come first ?" " Blucher would have been close ad h'3",
him." "But let us suppose your Grace „ eP,dl
compelled to retreat ?" "I would have talceled
position in the Forest of Soignies, and deetb-e
till the allies joined." " Was there any part of ossfei,.;
your grace despaired ? " "Never," was the %$, t"
This is the reply of the first in command. In 18 Oti
I, a
writer of this letter dined at Lord Palmerston 'or tb;
his right sat Lord Hill. As his lordship lived Pe., tb°
author, he offered to set him down. When alousl;roftfif,
carriage with Lord Hill, remembering what Sir liiry
had affirmed of the Duke's confidence, he saidto east
there any part of the day at Waterloo, Day lord,
desponded as to the result ?" "Desponded ! r tole'
Lord Hill, " never. There never was the least Aia.
We had gained rather than lost ground by the ,6fthe re'
No, not for a moment had I the least doubt or 0001
suit." Thus here are given, from authentic 1, atv
the opinions of the first and second it omres3lia.
even in the French army this ought to be someth

BIRTHS.
,AOl
OF A SON.
On the 7th inst., at Wood-green, Tottenham, 41,0
L. Phillips, Esq.

O A
bi
predugGe7sTtrEeßet.,
Hyde.r3rk-04 or*
On the sth inst., atCFam
wife of A. B. Bloxh m, Esq.

On tho Bth inst., at St. Peter's, tr MARRIED.
King, only son of John King, Esq., of Groavlitiad
and Coates House, Sussex, to Emily MaU, You a-
ter of Lady Elizabeth and the late Hon. L. Loswf-
Eaton-square, Jncitioi;

On the 7th inst ,at Pflurtn-611). S Mrs
widow of the late NI Blood Eseci.Y' ofilSrrlosaYn'e-stree agatlo
On the Bth inst at Swtinage' Dorset, Mari -18filli
wife of C. Willcox,'' Es surgeon, and only child °
late Lieut. Lamb R Esq.,
vg
On the 6th in t', a' Floors Castle, B. Charleywood, ;jot
t,e I itenant-Colonel in her Majesty's Grenadier Gil
,g d i , A oq.'
n t 91,11 inst., 10, Argyll-place, R. J. Culverw
' ged 50.

WORM
LoNlTOßTPrinted and Published by 111311130 vs.
of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office ,
oyvty
Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the
Friday, December 10, no.

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