The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-06 00:00:00

lair? Um!, was 4 Ispol..erial ti., siv4viiii t#S, --4 ' 4 eta, its. I .:,.,
)
moot at that place, and transport it,,re.,,,
.'-noinch,, :- : . . b"Atr's
must divide the house against this votc,,aS flie'felt unable '
to sanction the principle of an Outlay bf money; made ,
without consulting, anybody, and Without km:Wing wlietsbv!r :
t'icy were right or wrong: Ho con idered the manufacture
of carcass shells, as proposed now to be conducted, one of
the grossest jobs ever known. In the end, the recommen-
dations of the committee would be found far more
valuable, and far cheaper than th6-se of any let of scheming
engineers.- . -,' --, :
Sir J. PA_XTON observed that Government had pur-
chased a very excellent site for exercising large bodies of
troops at Aldershot, with two railways and a canal close to
it, and they had heard that large barracks were to be is
readiness this spring for an extensive encampment of
troops. He had been surprised to find that nothing was
done, not even a tender sent sut, before the 22d January,
when tenders were issued for the erection of huts to hold
20,000 men, to be completed by the 15th March. It struck
him at the time as very extraordinary, that the Ordnance
should only have given six weeks for this purpose, as oa
calculating he found that it would require the contractors
to deliver from 500 to COO tons of building materials a day
on the spot. On examining the specification he found that
the timber to be used was to be fir from Memel, Riga, or
Dantzic, and yellow Christiana deals; but if they asked any
wood contractor in London they would find that there were
not sufficient deals in the country to erect half of them. A
fortnight after the 22d another tender came out from the
Ordnance-office, for foundations to be laid in concrete and
brick, thus giving but a single month to lay the foundations
and fix the whole buildings. (Hear.) He need not say this
was almost an impossibility, and if it were done it would
be the most wonderful thing that had ever been done in
this country; but he did not believe a woad of it. (Hear,
and a laugh.) According to the terms of another b ontr act ,
there was to be a regular expenditure of 10,0001. 3 month
in permanent barracks, yet no preparation whstever had
been made to enable the contractors to begin their work with
facility. Had they issued tenders last summer f0r20,000,000
brinks to be laid down on the spot, he did not believe it
would have been necessary to put up the hats they were
now going to frame at so large an expense, and they would
have had a large portion of the brickwork finished by this
time; but nothing of this had been done, and now a large
sum would have to be sacrificed in precipitate operations.
With regard to the small arms manufactory at Enfield, he
heldtit to be a very bad principle for either the Government
or companies to manufacture a thing themselves unless
they wanted it. regularly. It would be very impolitic and
prejudicial to the interests of Government to have largo
establishments fitted up in war times which would not be
wanted in days of peace. It would, besides, have a very
bad effect on the manufactories of Birmingham, for when
a large demand arose they could not expect that any ex-
pansion in the means of supply would take place.

°~;~'

Lord SEYMOUR, said it had been shown in the, com-
mittee last year that 15s. might be saved in the manufac-
ture of a 31. rifle by giving up a little superfluous decora-
tion ; but Governmem% would neither abandon the useless
ornament nor consent 'co give the enhanced price. When
they wanted a speedy supply, evidently the first thing to
be done was to give out the pattern, but they had not
done this, and thn they comae down to complain that the
supply was not delivered in time. Ho thought it singular
that they should not know Ito whom the expenditure of
the large sum to be voted on account of the Rnfield estab-
lishment was to be entrusted. They could not expect the
London and Birmingham manufacturers to improve their
machinery if the Government announced theirintention to
erect a largo establishment at Enfield. Ho admitted that
a small manufactory at Enfield would have been useful; it
would have been a check upon the private traders, and
would have ensured a wholesome competition as to quality.
But the house was asked to vote a large sum of money
for the establishment of a vast manufactory, and to
entrust the expenditure of the, money to a Board of
Ordnance of which they knew no thing. The vote for the
Ordnance-office had been postponed, and nobody knew
how the board was to be composed. Were they, as
men of business, to be called upon to vote a large sum of
money, to be expended by men of whoso names even they
were entirely ignorant ? He was convinced that they would
get their arms more rapidly if they dealt with the trade in
a fair manner, which they had never yet done, as had been
proved most conclusively by the speech of the hon. mem-
ber for Birmingham. The Board of Ordnancilliad misma-
naged the whole business ; they hadnotobtained what they
should have got; and he had no doubt that if they had
issued their contracts early in May last, and proceeded like
men of business, they would have been supplied with a
much larger quantity of arms than they had actually pro-
cured. He observed that no less a sum than 375,000/. was
to be expended for barracks at Aldershot. Now he thought
it was to be a sort of encampment, and that soldiers were
there to be prepared for actual service ; but he was afraid
the men were to be so luxuriously housed, that they would
be rendered totally unfit for warfare. Did they mean to
stable the horses in the same way as in cavalry barracks,
where the animals were unfitted for work in the field? For
military operations he doubted whether that mode of using
the bonsai was a wise one. Wen he looked at the large sum
of 37,5,0001., he was curious to know whether the Govern-
ment had asked Sir Charles Barry to build the barracks at
Aldershot. Again, the house was asked to vote a sum of
60,0001. for barracks at Dover. Who was going to look after
their erectioa ? No private individual would dream of com-
mencing to build a house at the very moment he had dis-
missed his clerk of works. Yet that was the very thing
which the Government now proposed to do. They had get
rid of the Board of Ordnance, and yet they came down
and asked the house to vote 60,003. for the erection of
barracks at Dover, which, lie presumed, had nothing to do
with the war with Russia. Again, the Government asked
a considerable vote for the defence of commercial harbours
—12,0001. for Liverpool and 10,0001. for the Humber. Now
that measure might itbe necessary ; it was possible that
our fleets could not defend our coasts from the Russians;
but he did not think it, would be wise in the house to vote
so large a sum of money until they knew something of the
establishment under which it was to be expended. He
had heard no reason whatever for departing from the prin-
ciple laid down last year with regard to the establishment
at Enfield, and unless the Goverunitt could give them ,
one, he should be disposed to-reduce-Me vote by 14 sum of
40,000/. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. G. DUNDA.S was suz.pt iced at the hostility evinced
by several hon. 'members to the manufactory at Enfield
for making small arms by self-acting machinery, under the
surveillance of the Government. Ho trusted the house
would adopt the suggestion that had been made by the
Clerk of the Ordnance, and not go to a division.
Mr. L A YA RD said the house had heard in this discussion
severe! pleasing instances of the neglect, mi./management,
and ignorance of the Government departments. These ex-
posures were coming to be too frequent ; and what was very
curious, they never heard of any person being punished on
account of these thing'. There was one subject upon which
he would like to have some explanation from the Clerk of
the Ordnance—he meant the fusee& He could bear witness
to the fact; that the fusees issued during the early part of
the siege of Sebastopol were so disgracefully bad, that out
of every ten shells thrown no more than three or four burst
at all. He believed a report was made to the head of the
department upon the subject, representing that gross negli-
gence had been shown in the construction of the shells, and
he should like to know whether that report, drawn up in
the middle of last October, had been sent to this country,
and whether, in consequence any steps had been taken to
investigate the case, and punish the guilty partici, whoevisr
they might be ? There was another question which he
should also like to put to the hon. gentleman. He observed
in the estimates a sum of 50,0001. for clothing, accoutre-
ments, and knapsacks to the foreign legion. He should like
,to know what the foreign legion was ? (Hear.) They had
heard a good deal of it ; the bill for its embodiment was
pressed upon them in a very hasty manner at, the end of
last year, but up to the present day he did not know where
this mythical legion was, of what it was composed—whe-
ther of Austrians, or Germans, or Spaniards, or Dutchmen
—or why they were asked to vote 50,000/. to dress these
men of straw. If men had been obtained, he should like to
know whether they had been consulted as to their clothing
and accoutrements ? When he was in the Crimea hetalked to
many French officers about the English knapsacks, but he
never heard one who did not point out the great superiority
of the French knapsacks over the English in point of light-
ness and convenience. He wished to touch upon another point.
There was a large sum in the estimates for the engineers,
Nor be did net intend to depreciate the ability of oar en-
gineers, but he thOught it would be admitted that our
theoretical engineering work was not creditable to this
country,-and he believed he was net far wrong when he
stated that up to a late period not a single map had been
sent to England of the siege operations before Sebastopol.
Such a state of things was not creditable to our engineers.
It might have been recently improved, but it existed so
late as the end of December. An hon. and gallant member
had referred to the hospital at Smyrna. Now it was stated
by a member of the Government on the previous occasion
that this hospital was merely intended for winter and not
for summer. Bat the winter was almost passed, and sum-
mer was rapidly approaching in, that country, and it was
only .to-day lie read in the public papers that nurses and
attendants were sent out to the gmyrna Hospital. Smyrna
was a very unhealthy place in summer.. There was not a
single English family resident in it who did not leave it
during summer. Surely we had lost life enough already,
and ought not to throw more away in this wanton manner.
(Hear.) Ho did entreat the Government not to go on in
this way any longer. The country was too excited with
its losses to tolerate such conduct. (Hear.). Why, the
hospital at Smyrna was built in the corner of a bog, at the
lowest and worst part of the town, and in a few weeks the
place would be of aicted with gastric fever, which always
raged there in summer. He also desired to call the atten-
tion of the Government to the state-• of Balaklava. That
whenharbour
owwa saram hole]w ea
thsuerrroc
surrounded
th6debyy NO lofty mountains,
plague
Luvnetaainst and
breaking out at Balaklava,!and perbapi carrying off every
man there. (Hear.) He did entreat the Government to
reflect upon that subject. There was still another point to
which he desired to refer—he meant the Turkish contin-
gent. It was proposed to raise in Turkey 20,000 men, to
be commanded by English officers. A.,general officer of
whom we knew nothing was to be aent out to take the chief
command, and he observed that one rneinber of the staff
was a relative of the Minister of War. —lle did entreat the
Government. to consider these things seriously. Major-
Gelled,' Titian might be a very good man, but certainly
what they knew'or him was not sufficient to counterbalance
the want of some knowledge of the country, of the Turks,
and of their language. If the Government had sent out a
sum of money to enable Omer Paella to support histroopa
some months ago, they might. have secured the services of a
good Turkish contingent; or if they were to employ a number
of Turkish officers, they might, at least to some extent, effect
the object in view; but he did nottbink that a Turkish levy
under English officers exclusively would ever succeed.
Mr. NEWDEGATE supported thopropoealfor reducing
the vote by 40,0001. It had been said that the arms trade
of this country could not produce an adequate supply
for the Government. He denied that statement. The arms
trade of England supplied not only the East India aCom-
pany, but the French Government, the Portuguese, Sp
nigh, the Peruvian, the Russian, and, indeed,
almost every the
Government in the world ; but such was the mismanage-
ment of the Ordnance department that the Imperial Go-
verement 'a England was the only Government which our
inspector as
arms trade could not supply. He would tell the house how
that forved .before the committee
last
instructions small arms gave such
viewers that they•were obliged to reject
a Dllrg
good arms. In fact it was found that
atycoaaffirethatto w ate Itw
man in England could produce arms able to stand
oayoenequantity of
the ordnance test; and when Mr. Lovell, the 'gentleman
in question, was asked whether the Government could de-
pend upon an annual supply- of more than 25,000 such
muskets, he replied emphatically in the negative. Now,
it so happened that Mr. Lovell was appointed a judge in
the Great Exhibition. A number of gun-locks had been
rejected by his subordinates, acting under his instructions.
One of these gun-locks was sent to the Exhibition. What
was the result ? Mr.' Lovell gave a first prize to the very
article which his own 'subordinates had rejected in conse-
quence of his instructions..-4A laugh) The traders com-
plained, moreover, that they were not fairly treated by the
Government in other respects. It hod been well said that
an order for arms without the pattern was mere waste
paper, Well, what were the exact dates of the orders last
yearT On the let .of-aan..the geg_d of.,9dstance entered