The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-28 00:00:00

mode of proving his case. The Hon. Member seemed
to think it hard that Scotland and Ireland should be de-
, prived of the privilege of sealing their own quarrels in
their own courts. N,,w if that were so—if there
were a pretence for saying that anything of
the sort was intended—he (Mr. ll..nley) would
readily agree with him. But the msin prieeipie of
the Bill—and he was sure the House would agree with
hith that it was a :ound one—was. that Ei:giend. Scot-
land, and
law I elandin x e
a united kingdom, if them were
a patent
it tught to operate through-
out t,
the kingd.,m.—(Hear, hear.) That was a mein
principle of the Bih; but whether the machinery for
carrying it out was the best and simplest that could be
devised, and not capable of improvement, he should be very
sorry to say. It improvements weze requisite, the Com-
mittee would he at liberty to make them. With regard
to the Commissioners—it being conceded that it was de-
sirable to have one patent law for the whole of the
United Kingdom—of course a machinery must be sot up
which would be common to the three countries.
There, then, was the necessity for the Commission,
which would be composed of the Master of the Rolls,
one of her Majesty's judges, and the law officers of
the Crown in Eugland, in Scotland, and in Ireland.
And as to the reference to be made to the Commis-
sioners, it a Scotch man wanted it patent in Scotland, he
would refer to the Commissioners in that part of the
United Kingdom; and so with an Irishman, he would
refer to the Commlieioners in Ireland, On the
other hand, if either thought preps, he could take
out a patent in London. Another point, which might
be open to consideration, and in respect ot' which the
Bill might perhaps be amended in Committee, concerned
the extension of the patent law to the colonies; and if
in Committee it should be considered that the preroga-
tive of rho Crown was not sufficiently saved by the Bill
as it stood, ho was inclined to think it might be amended
by introducing a clause for that express purpose.—
(dear.) Most persons desired that the -measure should
tot made as simple as possible, and that was his (Mr.
Henley's) desire, and the desire of her Majesty's Go-
vernment. It was their great object to simplify the law,
to save expense, and if possible also to save parties from
future litigation. With regard to the difference said to
exist between patent right and copyright, he confessed
he saw but. little. He believed a man could only sus-
tain the latter by proving his works to be original, and
could only sustain the former by proving them to be a
novelty; so that in these particulars he thought they
were very nearly analogous. Oh, but it was
sometimes said, you give a man a copyright,
and he sets his views forth for the advantage
of the world. True, he did set them forth fur
the advantage of the world, and then he set his own
price upon them at the same tinne.—(Hear, hear.) And
it was just the same thing with patent right. He could
not, therefore, see much distinction between the two.—
(Hear, hear.) Yet many persons of great practical
knowledge had contended that there was a distinction,
and that the system of patents ought to be done away
with altogether. He was not of that opinion and he
hoped, therefore, the House would agree to the second
reading of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) One word with re-
gard to the expense, which was, after all, a most ma-
terial question. He believed that a patent for the three
kingdoms could not at present be taken out for a less
sum in fees and stamps—independently of the expense
of employing a patent agent—than 250/. or 2601. By
the Bill before the House it was proposed that it should
be obtained at a cost of 25/, and that of itself was an
enormous boon. Then if, at the expiration of three
years it should be found that the invention was so useful
as to make it desirable to extend the period of the pa-
tent, it could be renewed upon a further payment being
made. He feared that by the reduction of the patent fees
to so low a point a considerable loss might, he did not
say would, accrue to the Treasury. [Mr. WABLEY—It
will be a gain to the public.] But of course if parties
were to have a privilege they ought to pay for
(Hear, hear.) Still he did not say it was certain the
loss would arise. That depended entirely upon the cir-
cumstance whether or not the number of patents in-
creased in consequence of the comparative cheapness of
obtaining them. As to the question pat to him by the
Hon. Member for Edinburgh, he had throughout ex-
pressed his readiness and his wish to send the Bill to a
Select Committee, and he hoped the House would con-
cent to its second reading, in order that in a Select Com-
mittee those amendments' might be introduced which
were found to be necessary.

Mr. CARTER took objections to certain portions of
the Bill, and observed, that whatever might be the loss
it would entail upon the Exchequer, he did not believe it
would be so great as the Right Hon. Gentleman appre-
hended; for, according to the schedule of fees, the total
amount of the cost for the first period of the patent
would amount to 1491. lls., a sum which, in his opinion,
was immensely too high.

Mr. MUN IZ denied that this Bill was the same as the
measure of last year, and he considered it was as bad a
Bill as could possibly be constructed. If he consented
to its second reading, it should bs upon the assurance
that the examiner shouhl not have power to decide upon
the value and utility of an invention. Frequently seven
years elapsed before the utility of a pattern was ascer-
tained; in his own case, it took that period to convince
the puoiic that his invention was a good one. Where,
then, was the use of the examiner? A more important
point even than that was the clause which rendered every
pattern invalid which bad been used abroad. Why, no
patent could be maintained under such a clause as that;
for they had only to bring over a vagabond from the
other side of the water, who would swear to anything, to
swear to that. With respect to the fees for patents, the
Government had power to reduce them without legisla-
tion, and he would advise them to do so, and let the Bill
stand over for future consideration.
After a few words from Mr. GREENE and Mr.
WILLIAMS

Mr. PALMER questioned the propriety of their
pressing to its final stage at the present moment, when
little thee remained for a full discussion of the subject,
a measure which ietroduced new machinery and new
principles into the patent law of the kingdom. It com-
prised two distinct classes of clauses, to the immediate
passing of one of which into law, it embodied in a mea-
sure by themselves, he had no objection. This class of
clauses referred to the reduction of lees and the im-
provement of legal proceedings relative to patents. But
the other clauses of the Bill ought not to be • proceeded
with now, or at least they ought to know whether the
Government on their own responsibility gave their ap-
proval to the measure. It was prepared by a Noble
Lord in another place, who declared himself unfavour-
able to the maintenance of the patent laws, and hoped
for their ultimate abolition, and he (Mr. R. Palmer)
could trace the tendency of that Noble Lord's mind in
that respect in the Bill. They ought to know, then,
whether the Government on their responsibility gave
their assent to a measure of that kind, the effect of
which would be to undermine the patent laws of
the kingdom. There were two principles in-
volved in the Bill which would have this effeat—
one was that which did away with the power of
the Crown in the colonies to grant patents there; the
other related to foreign patents and to English patents in
foreign countries. One of the clauses embodying this
latter principle declared that the use of a patent abroad
would be as fatal to a patent here as if it had been used
in this country. Under that clause it would be impossi-
ble for a patentee to establish his right in a court of
justice, such would be the difficulties of obtaining the
requisite evidence from all countries of the world. A
second clause, that when a foreign patent relating to the
same invention as an English parent shall have expired,
the English shall expire at the same time; and a third
clause provided that patented .articles which might not
be used in English ships, might be made in foreign ships
in British waters; thus giving en undue advantage to
foreign over Bri!ish shipping. Besides, the preliminary
investigation proposed by the Bill, before granting a
patent, would require a large staff of officers, and expose
the patentee to two suits to establish his right, one before
the examiner, the other before the Attorney-General,
and then the decision would not be final. He objected
also to the provisions relating to the publication of plans,
specifications, and drawings, as being inefficient. En-
tertaining these objections to the measure, he should, if
there were a division, vote against its second reading.
Mr. 'WALPOLE said, if his lion. and Learned Friend
had been present when his Right Hon. Friend the
President of the Board of Trade had explained the object
of the Bill, he would have found that it did not interfere
with the principles of the patent, but maintained that it
was a wholesome stimulous to invention. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman especially objected. to the clause re-
lating to foreign ships, and to inventions the use of
which was known in foreign countries or the colonies.
With regard to the first, the object was to anticipate
those differences which might arise and become matters
of law iu reference to fOreign ships carrying their na-
tionality with them, which would be extended to articles
used on board ship. The President of the Board of
Trade had stated, however, that the Hoarse in passing
the Bill was'not bound to adopt that provision. With
respect to the use of inventlims patented in the colonies
or abroad, he agreed with the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman that the principle of the Bill in that regard re-
quired great and careful consideration. But those two
provisions were quite independent of the main object of
the Bill, which was first to diminish the expense
of a patent to the inventor and the re-
duction would be from
_2601. to 251
and next to establish One patent for the three main
divisions of the United Kingdom, so as to prevent a
patentee being obliged to take separate patents for En -
land, Ireland, and Scotland. He could not helthi g
that the effecting of these He
would connstitutienga
great benefit to the public and the inventors; and for the
objection of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Mame) to the
examiner, the object of that officer's functions was to
give to the law officers of the Crown an assurance,
based on scientific knowledge, that the inventions pro-
posed to be patented were worthy of a patent. But if
there was an insuperable objection to that provision it
could be altered in Committee. Ho hoped the House,
then, would allow the Bill to be read a second time and
referred to a Select Committee, after which they could
see whether they would adopt the whole Bill br sepa-
aonssectaonwdhtiiemhe,heahadadaraddevreerdtetdo.
rate from it the two proviasi
The Bill was then rea
e.
be referred to a Select Committe
The Scutch Mills for DV. (Ireland) Bill was read a
second time.
Ltiw OF WILLS AMENDMENT BILL.
oB n this
IriL.
The House having gone into Committee Bill,
On the first clause,
Mr. BETIIELL stated that the abuses arising .l out of
s n
' the state of the law relative to the s;gnature of wil.
dered some measure of this kind necessary. As the law
stood at present, no will was valid which
had not the
signature " at the end or foot thereof;" but these worue
had led to as much difficulty and doubt as had even foie
lowed the ambiguous phraseology of an Act of Parlia-
ment. The interpretation of which these words were
susceptible made the law in this respect a delusion and
a snare. It had been held that if the signature to a will
was not pieced at the tad of the last clause of i, the iii-
etruednit was invalid. The present Lord Chancellor,
a wishing to remedy the evils of the present system, and

THE SUN,