The Sun.
London, England, 1864-06-07 00:00:00

(Laughter.) He knows—because he has been in office him-
self—he knows :list iam tongue-tied at the present mos
meat, and that I cannot go into all atibt'ibi• to the charges
which have been showered upon me. Sir, the right hon. gen-
tielnan has a policy. He always talks of a policy, and boasts
of a policy, and reproaches those who have no policy. Well,
I challenge him to say what fhat policy is. (Loud cheers and
counter-cheer);) t 'et him tell us fairly what he wants the
Govathnient to do, and let him ask this House, after having
issupported her Majesty's Government, if they will adopt the
policy which he thinks the country ought to follow. (Mi-
nisterial cheers.) Let him iJiopoSe a Vete that this House
will support the Crown by all money and means to give
ed'ett to that policy. (Cheers.) When he does that, I shall
then say he is sincere in the course which he adopts in this
House. Sir, those who know What a negotiation Is, espe-
cially a negotiation tarried on With powers who hold a great
variety of views and different interests at stake—and the
right heti, gentleman knows or ought to knoW—mnst be
aware that to state from day to day what had been the re-
sult of this Conference would endanger the result which
everybody who is anxious for the :peace of Europe must
wish for. (Cheers.) Therefore) in spite of the attacks of the
right bon. gentleman, I shall not be induced to violate what
I believe to be my duty, and I must decline to state to the
House from day to day all that passes at the meeting of the
Conference, what each member said—(Cries of " No, no"
from the Opposition benches)—and what they intended to
do. (No, no.) That is what the right hon. gentleman
wants. (No, no.) That is what he wants. (No, no, and
cheers.) Foreign papers tell him, and he wants me to go
into the details as these foreign papers do, (Renewed cries
of " No, no.") Sir, there is a great difference in the posi-
tion of a Prime Minister in this House, and that of the
reports circulating in foreign newspapers. The right hon.
gentleman is at liberty to attack this statement, but,
though I have the greatest respect for this House, and think
they ought to be informed of anything of public interest—
I shall not go beyond my duty to satisfy the desire of this
House, being sure that this House will not wish use to go
into details which ought not to be made public. (Hear,
hear.) When the negotiations going on have arrived at a
stage when it will be consistent with the duty of Govern-
ment and the national interest to make known to the House
what we have agreed to and proposed, I am quite satisfied
that we shall be quite able to convince the House that in
this matter we have acted according to our duty and for
the best interests of the country. (Loud and long-continued
cheering.)
Mr S. FITZGERALD said that the noble lord (Palmer-
ston) had misrepresented what his right lion friend (Mr
Disraeli) had required of him. What his right hon friend,
what the house, and what the country required to know
was whether her Majesty's Government had been the very
parties to propose in the Conference that dismemberment of
Denmark which they had denounced only a few months
since, which they had decided would be a just cause of war,
and to prevent which they had declared their willingness to
join France and Russia in giving material aid to Denmark.
Lord R. CECIL regretted that no member of the Treasury
bench had thought fit to answer his right hon friend, and
give the House of Commons the information which it asked,
The noble lord (Palmerston) knew that if, by veiling him-
self behind his position as a negotiator, he could put off
rendering to the House of Commons the account which he
was bound to render to it until the summer was so far ad-
vanced that the question could not be gone into, his Go-
vernment was safe at least for this year. (Hear, hear.) He
thought the noble lord was making an experiment on the
patience of the house and of the country, which would not
be answered by the results. It was idle to talk of details,
when they all knew that the noble lord had made a complete
change of policy, and that the dismemberment of Denmark
had been approved—nay, proposed—by het Majesty's Go-
vernment themselves. The reason why the House of
Commons and the country were beginning to get impatient
at the length of these Conferences was because they more
than suspected that, under the auspices of the noble lord,
England, while professing to befriend Denmark, was in
reality betraying her.
Mr KINGLAKE said it would indeed be lamentable
if the language used on either side of the house should
have the effect of extorting from her Majesty's Govern-
ment any declaration perilous to the peace of Europe.
While fully appreciating the force of the arguments of
the right hon gentleman opposite (Mr Disraeli), that the
silence of the House had been purchased by the declaration
of principles made by her Majesty's Government—(hear)—
he would call the attention of the house to the fact that
immediately preceding the Conference question after ques.
lion had been asked as to the basis upon which the parties
were to go into the Conference, and that at last her Ma-
jesty's Government had, with great reluctance, declared
that the parties to the Conference would meet without any
other basis than the desire to restore peace in the north of
Europe. Surely that statement was a retraction of those
other impossible principles which her Majesty's Govern-
ment had propounded to the house in the earlier part of the
session, and he thought it becoming in all those who valued
the peace of Europe rather to welcome the retirement of her
Majesty's Government from a position which was perceived
all over Europe to be untenable, than to render that retire-
ment difficult by taunting them with the words they Lad
used in the earlier part of the session.
Mr D. GRIFFITHS thought the noble Lord (Palmer-
ston) would assume great responsibility in prol aging the
armistice—if war should eventually break out afresh—be-
cause the present weather was the most favourable to naval
operations in the Baltic. With regard to the dismember-
ment of the Danish kingdom, he thought if a line could be
drawn which would separate the Danes from enemies who
had proved themselves so ruthless, unscrupulous, and brutal
as the Germans had proved themselves to be, it would be a
satisfactory arrangement.
Sir A. VERNEY said that no union of the German popu-
lation of Schleswig-Holstein with the Danish crown would

lead to a permanent peace. It any portion of Schleswig
desired to be united to Denmark, he hoped that the in-
habitants would have a constitutional opportunity of ex-
pressing that feeling, as no other means which could be
devisel would lead to permanent peace,
The subject then dropped.
THE ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS.

Mr. H. SEYMOUR asked the Secretary of State for
the Home Department if he would lay upon the table of
the house the correspondence between the prelates and the
Government, that the house might know what are the ob-
jections of the prelates which prevent her Majesty's Go-
vernment from introducing any measure for the reform of

the Ecclesiastical Courts. He urged the necessity of a
measure to remedy the abuses of the Courts and the im •
perfect st ate of the law, observing it was suggested that the
necessary reforms were opposed on account of private in-

terest, and ho wished to learn the grounds ofs objection.
The delay of reform was unjust to both the clergy and the
laity.

Sir G. GREY explained some of the practical difficulties
in the way of the measures, and the cause of delay. The
Lord Chancellor, however, he said, hoped to be able co in-
troduce a bill during the present session. There had been
no correspondence on the subject.
The house then went into a Committee of Supply upon
the Civil Service Estimates.

THE NATIONAL GALLERY.
Mr. COWPER,
in moving a supplementary estimate of
£lO,OOO on account of the new National Gallery at Bur-

lington-house, gave a history of past proceedings of com-
missions and committees with reference to the site of the
Gallery, and proceeded to explain the intentions of the
Government and the dimensions of the proposed new Luild-
ing, as detailed in a statement accompanying the estimate.
The entire cost of the building was estimated at £152,000,
and he was of opinion that the proposed site was the best
that could be obtained for the purpose, and that the pro-
posal was an economical one.
Lord J. MANNERS opposed the vote. The advantages
of Trafalgar-square as the site of a national gallery had
been acknowledged by the highest authorities, and it was
the best in every point of view. There was room enough
s might be obtained when
there for the pictures at present, and would be for some
years to come, and additional pace
necessary. Not a word had been said by Mr. Cowper in
regard to any stipulation with the Royal Academy, and he
could not hnlp thinking that the building in Trafalgar-
square was to be handed over to the Academy without any
engagement whatever. He urged the Committee to come
to a clear and decisive resolution upon the question.
Mr. GREGORY supported most cordially the proposal
of the Government.

if te site of Bur-
cAo.
wS MpIETREIs
aoipdpiots ewdasi t .proposed, h
11,r 311 r..
lington-house was adopted for the National Gallery, to hand
over the building in Trafalgar-square to the Royal Aca-
demy, but no arrangement had yet been made as to the
terms.
Mr. S. Booth, Mr. Ayrton, Mr. Ferrand, and Mr. H.
Seymour spoke against the vote; Lord Eleho and Mr.
Walter in its favour.
Lord PALMERSTON explained the grounds upon
which he had altered his views as to the site of a National
Gallery, and argued that considering the large expense
which would attend the necessary alterations in Trafalgar-
square, on the ground of economy, there could be no ques-
tion that the Government proposal was the preferable one.
Mr. OSBORNE reminded the house that in 1860 it had
voted 517,000 on the express ground that the building in
Trafalgar-square was to be a permanent gallery for the re-
ception of the national pictures.
Upon a divsion, the numbers wore—
For the amendment 174
For the motion 122
Majority against the Government —52
Various votes having been agreed to, the CHAIRMAN was
ordered to report progress.
The Government Annuities, Scc., Bill was recommitted,
and received certain amendments.
The Public and Refreshment Houses (Metropolis) Bill
was committed pro' forma.
Other bills were forwarded, and the remaining business
having been disposed of,
The house adjourned at a quarter to 2 o'clock.

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