The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-05 00:00:00

LIGHT DUES.

motion.

Mr. HUME gave notice that on an early day he
should call the attention of the House to the subject of
light dues, and submit a motion on tho subject.
COALS.

Mr. HEADLASI gave notice that on this day month
he should make a motion on the subject of the importa-
tion of British coals into Franco.
110SIE-MADE SPIRITS. _

Mr. REYNOLDS gave noticeihat—on Friday he
should ask whether it was the intention of Government
to introduce a Bill to place the manufacturers and dealers
in home-made spirits on an equal footing with the im-
porters and dealers in foreign spirits.
GRAND JURIES.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL gave notice that in
the event of the Grand Juries Abolition Bill being read
a second time, he should move that it be referred to a
Select Committee.
BURMESE WAR.
Sir EDWARD COLEBROOKE wished to know if it
was the intention of the Board of Control to communi-
oste to the House the papers relating to the proceedings
which had led to the war with Ava?
Mr. BERRIES said it was as soon as the negotiations
now pending with the King of Ava relative to certain
conditions which ho was required to agree to should be
brought to a close.
THE HUMBER.
Mr. EDWARD HENEAGE wished to ask the
Secretary of the Admiralty whether he had received any
report from the engineer employed at Spurn Point,
Humber, with regard to the progress made towards stop-
ping the gap caused by the sea, and whether it was now
considered free from danger.
Mr. STAFFORD said the gap had been effectually
closed, but there were still further works to be under-
taken which the engineer thought necessary.
THE FRANCHISE.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave
notice that on Monday next he would ask for leave to
bring in a Bill to assign the seats vacated by the dis-
franchisement of Sudbury and St. Albans.
PASSPORTS.
Sir HENRY DAVIE moved for a return showing
the number of Passports issued from the Foreign-office
in each week since the commencement, on the 22d day
of February, 1851, of the new system (at 7s. 6d. for each
passport), compared with the number issued in the cor-
responding week of
system (at and also show-
the preceding year under the old
V. 7s. 6d. for each passport);
ing the comparative results of the two systems in a
financial point of view; also the largest number
of passports issued on any one day since the new system
had been introduced.—Agreed to.
THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Mr. SLANEY then rose to move for a department,
Standing Committee, or unpaid Commission, to con-
sider, suggest, and report from time to
preven-
tivetimf,.
and remedial measures, to benefit the social
al condt
andtion of the working classes, and for removing eg
other obstacles to their improvement.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER inter
. '
posed. Be thought it was understood last that
ill was to bnighte taken
the adjourned debate on the Militia
the first thing this evening.
Lord J. RUSSELL was also of that impression, and
appealed to the Hon. Member to give way.
Mr. SLANEY said as this was a subject in which he
took a deep interest, and as it was not probable that he
should have another opportunity of addressing Parlia-
ment, he must go on unless Government would under-
take to give him some future day.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
could not pledge himselt to give aday, bat he
wh bed
motions
particular
would take care that Hon. Gentlemen
on the paper to-night should not be placed a disad-
vantage by giving way.
Mr. SLANEY said, under these circumstances, he
would consent to postpone his motion if other Hon.
Members would do the same.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said, thougy to the adjourned
h he was opposed to
the Militia Bill, he would give wa
debate if the Chancellor of the Exchequer would fix

day for him withi❑ this day fortnight; otherwise
he should feel it bi 3 public duty to proceed with his

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed
that the Hon. M ,miber's motion at the early part of the
session stood first upon the ppor, but on being called
upon he was not in his place.—(Hear, and laughter.)
Therefore he hod boat a good opportunity through his
own fault. He (the Chancellor of the Exzhequer) ec-
knowledged that a day sitting, at 12 o'clock, might be had
recourse to under extraordinary circumstances to facili-
tate business, but Ministers had something else to do
besides attending the House, and it was a great tax
upon their time to attend the House on Wednesday in
addition to discharging their other duties. To fix a
day for the Member would not be courteous to
the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury, who had so cour-
teously acceded to his suggestion. He could not give a
pledge, but he hoped to be able to place the Hon.
Member in an equivalent position before the close of
the session.

_
Mr. WALPOLE also urged tha Hon. Member to
withdraw his motion, which he eventually did.
TIIE MILIFIA BILL.—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
The order of th© they for resuming the adjourned de-
bate ou this Bill having been read,

Captain SCOBELL said ho did not move the adjourn-
ment of the debate last night from any want of defer-
ence to the House, but because several Members were

anxious to speak who wore net able to catch the Speaker's
eye. Up to the present moment 1,000 petitions had been
presented against the Militia Bill, and scarcely one in
its favour. Ha apprehended no breach of the peace be-
tween nation and nation. It was only last year that her
Mijesty, at the beginning of the session, announced that
she was at peace with all the rest of the world.
Scarcely any two Members agreed in opinion upon the
Bill. Some Honourable Members oppesite connected
with the army thought that an increase of the
army would be infinitely preferable to this limping
militia ; but still, like good soldiers, they fol-
lowed their leader when the division took place. The
Learned Gentleman the Solicitor-General for Ireland
observed that a militia was not so expensive
as an invasion or a revolution, but no case had been
shown to prove that any rational fear need be enter-
tained of invasion, much less of a revolution. Such
observations were therefore beside the matter
under discussion. The same Learned Gentleman
also said that the apprehension of war was as inju-
rious as war itself. That was a strange observation
to come from such a quarter, because it involved the
very argument which was used by the Honourable
Member for the West Riding, and the others who
supported him, viz., that it was this unnecessary
apprehension of war—this alarm of panic-mongers—that
gave rise to the present Bill; but ho believed that in less
than a month hence the majority of the House
would be of a very different opinion in respect to
the measure. The Learned Gentleman went on
to say that in every ago arms and agriculture
were the strength and glory of the nation. Now that
was a very fine phrase, but he could not see its force or
application. He had listened to three very long debates
on the militia, but scarcely once heard any allusion made
to the navy, which was the greatest in the world.
The English navy exceeded all other navies taken
singly, and almost the combined navies of two or three
nations. It might be taken as a maxim that what-
ever nation had the command of the sea,
that nation would be successful in all its ex-
peditions; while, on the contrary, the nation
whose enemy commanded the sea, would have no success
in its expeditions, especially in those on a large scale. He
looked upon the narrowness of the channel between this
country and France to be of great advantage to England,
because from being narrow the channel was more easily
watched. If any fears of invasion were really enter-
tained, and it was not all sham, why was recourse not
had to the plan suggested by his Hon. Friend the
Member for the West Riding, of bringing home
all the vessels that could be spared from foreign
stations for the purpose of protecting our shores?
Ho thought, however, there was an ample force
at home to meet all danger. There were three line-
of-battle ships at Spithead and ono at Plymouth,
with a total force on board of 3,350. On invasion be-
coming imminent, all they would have to do would be to
distribute these men in steam-vessels, and station
them along the coast, and our shores would be safe.
Napoleon admitted that unless he had the command of
the Channel for a week he never could invade England,
and he hoped that admission would keep the country
alive to the importance of keeping the Channel safe.
Don't let them spend money uselessly upon militias, but
devote it to improving the harbours of refuge, where
the ships guarding our coast could retreat to in stormy
weather. The French had none of those harbours, at
least not in the same proportion as England;
and therefore, instead of wasting time upon
this Bill, the House ought to direct its attention to the
subject of harbours of refuge. He had no fear of
war, but should it come he was convinced
the progress of science would be as remark-
able on our side as the enemy's. He ad-
mitted that he voted for the introduction of the
Bill of the Noble Lord the Member for London, but it
did not follow that because he supported its introduction
he must also vote for it in its future stages. He simply
wished to give the Noble Lord an opportunity of laying
his Bill on the table, and he must say that au unfair
means was taken to prevent his doing so. In conclusion
he begged to express his conviction that should another
war occur, it would be found that England's wooden
walls were her best bulwarks.—(hear, hear.)
Sir H. VERNEY said it was the universal opinion
of our great statesmen and our bravest generals that
Our defences were defective, and it was their duty to
listen to the opinions of these men. In the event of
an invasion the Members of that House would not
be consulted as to the best mode of defence;
but the question which would have to be decided was
where should Napier and where should Hardinge be
sent. Well, then, these men had pronounced our de-
fences defective, and so had the best French military
writers, and he insisted that it was the duty of the
House not to wait until the danger arrived, but to
take
a mad e
time by the forelock and take care to be prnepdared for
every every emergency.—(Hear, titan) Franee,
wonderful advances in the art of war in spite
of
againsther itnhteerinn antod
gaolthtoouwg,shr iwt
itwhouusld,
yetbe
countries were guided
as it did not always happen atelredsitssuef9
which this Bill provided.
the precautionary
measures
-d out, however, with as little
by their interests, it was the duty of the House to take
The plan ought to be came
dissensions, and
interference as possible, and
should bo set aside, both
that all party feeling
ho would therefore suggest
by the Government and the Opposition, with
the view of ultimately devising some scheme
which should prove a Honourable Gentlemenpeople
as was possible.—(Hear' n
if the militia was unpopular
argued this question as
s little burdensome to the
it had a tendency to render
the it inclined
way upon the supposition that
with the people, becausenclined to lead an immoral life,r
ality. Now he
h 1 for learner • would
the army was a school andthe men
they engagedargued i n
far from tharemarkable the as th
undertake to say that so
and the
ere e
both
regiments of
and sobriety. There were some
for morality
r. them, but taken as a
bad men amongst
lay was unexceptionable,
enapfallen as they then were
whole their mora .
nvineed, would attend a wise and
same result, he
was
et°of the militia.—(Hear.)
judicious enebodimen
_Ewa
LEy
sa . h
thethilsine • w
td e never saw
SO
the Opposition beno
ranee evinced by them in the .
TOO only jolly appearance
ado by the li pro-
Mr. GRANTLEYnesbi
pro-
ceedings of last night was 111 on. Member
seen , ey , who, with a naivete peculiar
11 )
for Finsbury (Mr- la'
the Chancellor of the
to himself, asked Exchequer to
of the debate, .
postponement because he in-
agree to the he measure every opposition in his
tended to offer t
) The Hon. Member for
the West
power.—(Sear,
Yorkshirehoar.) The
that, with the exception Riding of there was no question of the
question of free-trade,
. that suited
to the country with as the
him so well to g 0 to
the nom Gentleman
must always
It
appeared, then, that
ievance; for, if he had
none, his poli-
tical a political gr
t,ccOme a
nonentity.—(La '
tical life would _(Laughter.) He
h those
ow ose , which they had
should like to knowspoken
of,
were
heard so much obtained. How was it
which was one of considerable •
that his county,
t him a petition to import-
bad never Ben present against
ante, 0 great manufacturing towns, in which
the Bill? Th 1 b
Aem er had so much owes
the Honourable p wer, were
. •
placesfrom whichthese petitions emanated.
the only Member for Manchester
subject, (Mr. Bright),
when speaking on this
oflike Bob Acres, felt
age oozing out his finger-ends. That Ho-
nourablecourage
Gentleman said that the army and navy
were forgotten at that moment in favour of what he
called the blundering,e : miserable, and undisciplined
horde that would constitute their militia force. The
House ought to mark well the difference of the lan-
guage used by the Hon. Member when addressing these
persons out of doors. He also said that a political panic
was sometimes got up for the purpose of trading on it.
He (Mr. G. Berkeley) would ask the Hon. Gentleman
whether he did not know of such a panic being got up
for the purpose of exciting the hostility of the people
against the Government; and that language was uttered
on such occasions outside of the House which dared not
be uttered inside of it.—(Hear, hear.) Why, at the
first gathering of the Anti-Corn-law League there was
language used which was well calculated to excite re-
bellion. The Hon. Member for Manchester last night
was pleased to attach to the Noble Lord the Member
for Tiverton (Lord Palmerston) the title of Mrs. Jellaby.
Now he (Hr. G. Berkeley) recollected reading of two
characters described by the same author which he
thought were singularly applicable to the Hon. Member
and the lion. Member for the West Riding of York-
shire—namely, Unhappy John and Miserable. Dick.—
(Laughter.) He would give his support to the passing
of this Bill, which he was convinced was a moat consti-
tutional and appropriate measure to meet the evils com-
plained of.
Sir DE LACY EVANS wished to explain a misap-
prehension that was abroad as to what he had said on
the second reading of this Bill. What he had then
stated was that there wore 80 guns on the peace esta-
blishment which might be made available upon an emer-
gency. He also said that the Marine Artillery had 20
guns, but without horses, which also could be made
available. He saw no difficulty in providing them with
horses; so that there could bo mustered in all 100 guns
for active service. Sir Hew Ross bad written to him
on the subject of this misstatement, and ho now wished
to explain to the House what he reallysay did upon the
occasion referred to. He then went on a
tos y that these
horses might be procured at once, and rendered avail-
able, when an lion. and Gallant Colonel rather sneered
at the observation by d• ll aumg to the probability of those
horses r • untnng away when brought into action. New
be was speaking practically when ho made that state-
ment, for he had gone into action himself with horses
collected only two or three days before from farm-
houses on the road side. He had also stated that the
number of rank and file, including °ince"' whichso
0
might be made available for service,
_ was N - , s
men; that there was also 9,000 of the Ordnance core

M A Y 5,