The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-16 00:00:00

THE

truth we had it not. Lot their Lordships consider, if
an invas4;ll took place, end-that, no:, owing to the want
of Bri,,ish coarage or sup;ort, but owing!,o the wont
it should prove successful, what would
proper discipline,
be, tbe cif cc on he moral courage . and moral discipline
of this, country? Besides, there WWI ahother considera-
tion—naincly, the very great uncertainty of obtaining
those. Caen again when ence.wo had parted with. them.
He agreed with t;.,e tV )Ae Earl-that the ballet should
tae avoido;. bar, ;A:: Coo saine tune, if. the Noble
relied entirely on ins viunteere, let him remember that
be relied upon men gathered,from all parts of the own-
persons of the
•Tneo ~.locomotive description.
/,andcould
undergand a state of things in, which the non-
commissioned officers would be fully occupied in follow-
ing roost, won frein one part of the country to the other,
and endeavouring to bring them hick to those colours
which they had abandoned, and •which they had a mo-
tive in.abandoning..,. He therefore c aild not consider
that thaarmy raised under this if it • could :be
called an army at all, was, or would provo to be, cno
whilh could be relied on. Ho could not dud in history
that a militia had been found available for active service,
at all resembling that which•was proposed to be raised
by- thisß,li. The American militia hO:e no resemblance

to this in any of its qualities, in the mode in which it

was: procurede or in the military heti& which it ac-
quired; and even the recently reaped, saimats of the
United: states showed themselves auything -bat cem-
potent for active service, as was proved during; the
Mexican war. Again, there was the land wehr of Ger-
many; but that was an army
. reserve, :competed of
old soldiers, who came into the field clothed with.all
their military attributes. It would undoubtedly place
the courage of Englishmen in a false position ift under
any circumstances, they were to be subjected to the fire
of a regular army composed of well-disciplined troops.
In the year 1831 the present King of the Belgians was
exposed, together with that kingdom itself, to a violent
attack from the Netherlands, and a conflict ensued, ,in
which the Belgian troops were entirely worsted,
by those of Holland. The reason • was, that the
Belgian army was imperfectly trained, and went
into the conflict in want of discipline and habit to meet
the troops of Holland, who bad all the advantage of
training and discipline. His Noble Friend (Earl Grey)
had just reminded him that when, in 1848, the pourage
and spirit of those troops came to botested, they proved
that they were not wanting in either, and that
,they were
capable, under that Sovereign, of affording the most
effective assiste.ne- to any force, Hodid net feel confi-
dent that this Bill would provide an army capable of
being depended on in actual service. The Noble Earl
had a right to ask bim (the Marquis of Lansdowne)
whether he relied on the Bill of the late Govern-
ment as affording an efficient militia. He WaS bound
in candour to say he did not so rely. At the same
time he thought it expedient that the people of • this ,
country should bo drilled gradually to the use of
arms. He looked to the possibility: of their being
brought into a state in which they would be useful for
serving in garrisons incase of need; bu:. he did not think -
that any militia, short of an army of reserve, which was
a• very different thing, would supply that deficiency
which we were bound ,to supply with the view to an ,
effioacious defence. With his repugeane4 to a standing
army, he,still thought it his duty to avow his opinion
that the best, safest, and most efficient of all remedies
would be found in a force of that kind.—(Hear, hear.)
He thought that an army of reserve would be far prefer
able to any force raised under the measure before the
House, and not much more expensive. He believed
the expense attending this- measure would bo much
greater than the Noble Lord 'imagined. At all events
an army of reserve would be what the fOree raised
under the Bill would not be—a real bond fide reliable
defence.—(Hear, hear.) Ho trusted, in conclusion, that
this imperfect measure would be the only one which
Parliament would have recourse to for the tupe° of
placing it on that pinnacle which was essential to its
glory, its independence, and its perpetuity.—(Cheers.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON was at 'times very •
imperfectly heard. He said—l am certainly the last
man to have any hesitation of opinion as to the relative
advantages of meeting an enemy with disciplined or •
with undisciplined or half-disciplined troops. The things
aro not to be compared at all.—(Hear, hear.) With
disciplined troops you are acting with a certain degree
of confidence that what they are ordered to perform
they will perform.—(Hear, hear.) With undisciplined
troops you can have no such confidence; on the contrary,'
the chances are' that they will do the very reverse of
what they are ordered to do.--(Llear, hear, and a laugh.)
Bat we must look a little at the state iu which we stand
at the present moment.—(Hear, hear.) This country is
at peace 'with the whole ,world, except in certain parts,
or on the frontiers of its own distant dominions, a ith
which operations of war are carried on by means of our
peace establishment. You are now providing for a
peace establishment; you are at peace with the whole
world; you are providing for a peace establishment.
I say that peace establishment ought to have been
effectually provided for lung ago.—(Cheers.) If' it
had been, we should not have needed now to be
told, as we have been by the Noble Marquis, about the
number of days and weeks it will take to train the mili-
tia recruits, or about the futility of expecting anything
to the purpose from troops with their three weeks' or
their six weeks', or what time it may be, training. • We
have never, up to this moment, maintained a proper
peace establisbment—that's the real truth—(Llear, hear)
—and we are now in that position in which we find our-
selves forced to form a peace es:ablishinent such as this
country requires.—(Lear.) I tell you that fur the last
ten years you have never bad in your ermy more men
than enough to relieve the sentries on duty of your sta-
tions in the different parts of the world—([fear, hear)—
such is the state of your peace establishment at the pre-
sent time; such has been the state of your peace estab-
lishment for the last ten years;7--(Hear, hear.) You
have been carrying on war in all parts of the globe, in
the different stations, by means of this peabe establish-
ment; you have now a war at the Cape, still continuing,
which you carry on with your peace establishment; yet
on that peace establishment I tell you you have not more
Men than are enough to relieve the sentries at the different
stations Mall parts of the world, and to relieve the diffe-
rent regiments in the tropics and elsewhere, after set-
vices there—of how long.do you suppose?—of, in some
cases, twenty-five years, in none less . than ten years—
(Hear, hear)—and, after which, you give them five
years at home, nominally—for it is only nominally in
a great many cases. There were, for instance, the last
troops who were sent out to the Cape; instead of keep-'
ing them five yeaes at home, after their long service
abroad, I was obliged to send them out after they had
only been sixteen months at hotne.—(Hear, hear.) My-
Lords, I toll you you've never had a proper peace estab-
lishment all this time. Wo aro still at peace with all
the world; let us, then, have a peace establishment—
our constitutional peace establishment; and, when you
have got that, see what you will do' next. The Noble
Marquis, my Nettle Friend, if he will telow me so to call
him, says he thinks he should prefer an army of reserve.
An army of reserve! What is an army of reserve?—
(Hear, hear.) Is it an army to cost less than 40/. each
men all round? If he thinks that possible, 1 tell hire
that we can have no such thing..—(liqur, But
what I desire—and I believe it is a desire the most
moderate that can he formed—is; that you shall
give us, in the first instance, the old con-
stitutional peace establishment,—(Hear, hear.) When
we have got that, then you may do what yitu please:
The Noble Marquis says, very truly, that these'so,ooo,
or 80,000, or 150,000 militiamen won't he fie for service
in six months. or twelve months, or eighteen months;
bat I say they'll he -fit, at all events, for some service;
and certainly they'll enable us to eniploy in. the 'field
others who are fit for service=-(Hear, hear)—and in
time they will themselves become fit for service. lii` the
lest war we had in service several regiments of English
militia, and they were in as high a state of discipline
and as fit for service as any men I ever saw in my
life.—(Hear.) It was quite impossible to have a body
of troops in higher order, or in'higher discipline, or more
fit for discipline than these bodies of British militia were
'at the commencement of the present century up to 1810;
they were as fine corps as ever were seen--(Hear)e-and
I say, no doubt these bodies of 50,000 men or 80,000
men, whatever the number may be, will be so too, 'in'
the 'course of time.—(Hear, hear.) Everything has its
beginning,-and this is a commencement. You' must
make a beginning here, and see that it will take some
months before you can form reserve regiments.--(Hear,
hear.) The armies of England, who have served the
country so well, are year Lordships so mistaken as to
suppose that they were ever composed of more than one-
third of real British subjects—of natives of this island?
No such thing.—(Hear, bear.) Look at the East Indies.
Not more than one-third of the soldiers there are such
British subjects. Look at the Peninsula; not one
of the men employed there were ever British soldiers.
Yet I beg.your Lordships to observe what services those
soldiers performecl.—(Hear, heti.) They fought great
battles against the finest troops in the world; they went
prepared to face everything—ay, and to be successful.
against everything, or this country would not have borne
with them.—(Hear, hoar.) Not one-third of those
armies were British troops, but they were brave troops,
and not merely brave--for I believe every man is brave
—but well-organized troops. Take the battle of Wa-
tcrloo—(Hear, hear)—look at' the number ' of British
troops at that battle. I can tell your Lordships that in
that battle there were 16 battalions of Hano-
verian militia, just formed, under the command of
tho late Hanoverian -.Ambassador hero Count
•Kielmansegge, who behaved most admirably,
and there were many other foreign troops who nobly
(siudeeadrus sheinsrt)h_atwbhaotstele,oarveroawteiodnlys
htneelpebdatttole
borfingiapg anibitnsoue:
the victory which was followed by the peace of Europe;
that has now lasted for 32 or 34 years.—(Hear, hear.) I
say that however muhh I admire highly:diem
and most o.lpecially British disciplined troops, I
you must not suppbse that others cannot become
begin with
so too--
ttreolloypos,u
(Hear, hour)—aud no doubt, if you
efc ePs satirrlsi alma erte'
tthherm
eyfoisillatiinontii?le.bereocrvopemsr enderwha thishe rAperte
do
they do become what the former
militia were; and e
may rely on it they will perform all
mthieliatioan,t,e,T'thY:yilese; be required to perform.—(Hear,
ohorn3arm,)erele.rmeecnomt to adopt this measure us the
peace' estahl ish-
censtitutiotal
reente—(Heer, hear.) It will give' you a a
eve
I thing we could' desire, but by degree it will !Rome
of
fotrhesome.tin ry-
Isar arnay.
i;l:hrea:;yiotu%'w.ilairnito--,tetuffitan:de:ffiaYtn:::firle::::ozrililry force to the reFu-
-(Flear, hear.)
Earl GREY paid, that no doubt duringthe war the
militia was a valuable fo • but it should be teaallaute.d,
th
go-however, fer theta to visa' tr here was,
it
`in
tee :t' the propoted ',':sf force
t'''-t•
was
s3tPhuernP 3"
Pe
" aWrr'lee. s I'l 36.(c' moubirriPegdulfaorrcaer'm yir. To all
likely to oe a use
in eAs. of any sadden etnerazasv Uen this p
he rett?,,k ,bet shej, Staid
nos.,
, to trust
them, What liey wanted 'to tkux,l7r•
being exposed to a sudden atteek- beforet.'a' against
were
t ley
PrePued to WO it. Whe maul% itbould
be such as to