The Sun.
London, England, 1864-04-30 00:00:00

reversed. (Hear, hear.) There is no doubt that the hon.
baronet was on his legs when the question was put.
Sir G. GREY—The proceedings cannot be reversed. The
course will be for the hon. member now in the chair to leave
the chair.

Mr. AYRTON—I beg your pardon; we can request the
Speaker to return.
Lord R. MONTAGU said he could answer for it that
the Speaker had put the question and said the " Ayes have
it ;" and when the question was put the hon. baronet
rose.

The CHAIRMAN then loft the chair to report progress,
and the house resumed.

On the return of the Speaker,
Sir H. VERNEY—Sir, I move the adjournment of the
house.

The SPEAKER—The hon. baronet can address the
hous3 on a question of order, but I do not think he can
move the adjournment.

Sir H. VERNEY--Sir, I wish to address you on a point
of order. I beg to state that the name of a member (Mr.
Black) was on the paper before mine. I waited, expecting
his name to be called. I thought I had risen to address
you before you left the chair. If you say I had not I bow
to your decision, but I hope that I may be allowed to pro-
ceed with my motion.

Mr. B. OSBORNT:--I second the motion for adjourn-
ment. (Order, order.) I maintain that this is a question
affecting the privileges of this house; and, without making
any pointed allusion to you, I must say that I did not hear
you, sir, put the question. A noble lord on the other side
(Lord R. Montagu) said he did hear it ; but he was sitting
in close proximity to the chair. I was not favoured with
that privato and confidential communication. (Laughter.)
My hon. friend below me rose before you left the chair.
(No, no.) We on this bench are gifted with eyes and ears
—(laughter)—as well as the more favoured inhabitants of
that lower region—(laughter)—and I say the hon, member
rose before you left the chair. If you put the question it
was put so indistinctly that no member on this bench heard
it; but I maintain it, contrary to the Under Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs, that we did not hear the question.
I cannot help thinking that independent members are
hardly treated, and in their name I protest against this
sharp practice. (Oh, oh.)
Mr. HUMBER STONE—It so happened that when the
question was put I was standing behind the chair of the
Sergeant at Arms ; and it seemed to me that that gentle-
man rose to advance towards the table before the hon.
baronet rose from his seat,
Sir G. GREY—There has been some misapprehension.
My hon. friend the member for Buckingham (Sir H. Ver-
ney) said that ho waited till the name of Mr. Black should
be called upon, Mr, Black was not called upon; but my
hon. friend expected him to be called ; but it was not ne-
cessary that he should be called. The Speaker had left
the chair before the hon. baronet rose. I heard the ques-
tion put, and the hon. baronet did not rise because he was
under the misapprehension that Mr. Black would be called,
I think that no blame whatever can be attributed to the
Speaker.

Mr. CARNEGIE—I was farther off than the hon.
member for Liskeard ; and though I don't deny that the
hon. member has eyes and ears I also claim the privilege to
have eyes and ears, and I beard you put the question before
the hon. member rose.
Mr DILLWYN—As it is a matter of evidence in some
respect, I may give the evidence of my senses. I was sitting
here very near my hen. friend the member for Liskeard, and
I did not hear the question. I heard some words uttered,
but not the question.

Mr AYRTON said he had heard the question put, but he
did not hear it carried. He heard the a) es but not the noes.
Mr W. MARTIN said he had distinctly heard both the
aye and the no.

Lord It. MONTAG U—l heard the question, and if those
hon. gentleman opposite did not hear it, perhaps that is due
to the somniferous state into which they had been brought
by the speeches which had been previously made. (Hear.)
The SPEAKER--I am sorry that there should have
been any misunderstanding or misapprehension on the part
of any member. I cannot for a moment admit that there
was anything in the course I pursued which was not strictly
in accordance whh the existing rules of the house. I was
in no hurry when I rose to put the question that I do now
leave the chair. No gentleman rose—and 1 now under-
stand why the right hon. baronet the member for Bucking-
ham did not rise ; because he thought I should call on the
gentleman who stood before him. If an hon. member
wishes to move an amendment it is for him to rise. I
therefore put the question that I do now leave the chair,
and as nobody rose thereon I put the usual form—" those
who are of that opinion say aye ;' of the contrary opinion,
say 'no the ayes have it," I then turned and saw that
the hon. member for Buckingham had risen in his place.
It is perfectly true that he rose and was standing in his place
before I left the chair, but not before I had put the question.
That is the exact state of the case as tar as it happened on
my part. I regret that any member who was paying atten-
tion to the business has arrived at a different conclusion.
Mr KINGLAKE said that he was sitting close to the
hon. baronet the member for Buckingham, and he certainly
did not hear the question.
The EllbjeCt then dropped.
The orders of the day wore disposed oft and the house
then adjourned.