The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-11 00:00:00

BURGHS IN SCOTLAND BILL.

On the motion of the Earl of MINTO this Bill was
read a second time.

INDIA.

Lord MONTEAGLE gave notice that to-morrow
(this day) ho would present a petition concerning the
position and political rights of the natives of India under
the last Act for the renewal of the charter.
Their Lordships thee adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 10.
ASSIGNMENT OF THE FORFEITED SEATS OF
ST. ALBANS AND SUDBURY.

The orders of the day having been gone through pro
forma,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
moved for leave to bring in a Bill to assign the seats
forfeited by the disfranchisement of the boroughs o
Sudbury and St. Albans. He said that when he as-
sumed his seat, after his election, he stated to the
House, in reply to the Honourable Member for
Wolverhampton, the general policy of the Government,
and the course they intended to pursue for the dispatch
of the business before the House. He stated then that
though it was the intention of the Government to
counsel her Majesty to dissolve the present Parlia-
ment, they were not prepared to give that advice
until those measures were passed which the exigency
of the public service required, or which the Government
considered of paramount importance. He did not men-
tion all the necessary measures which would be brought
in, bat he stated there were three of paramount
importance : Ist—one with reference to the internal
defence of the country; second, another to carry into
effect the recommendations for a reform in Chancery;
and lastly, he added that the Government intended,
when the Bill for the disfranchisement of St. Albans
passed, they would ask the House to Calla-
plate the constitutional number which. formed the
aggregate of the House of Commons. He confessed he
was surprised and individually pained to hear it in-
sinuated that in propcsitig this Bill he had taken the
House by surprise, and committed, he would not say a
breach of trust, though that accusation had met his eye, but
tampered with that honourable understanding which ex-
isted bete een the Government and the House. He was
not conscious of having acted in any other
than a perfectly straightforward manner. He
trusted this explanation would acquit him of
any charge inconsistent with his position,
as a Minister.—(Hear, hear.) The Government
thought it was highly expedient that the seats vacated
should be filled up before the dissolution. Honourable
Members opposite might ask what particular magic
there was in the number of 658 Members?
He confessed he would b 3 somewhat perplexed to defend
the cabalistic charge as to that fixed number. The
foundation of all ateangements, however, consisted in
prescription created by experience and sanctioned
by custom. Prescription was the most im-
portant element of liberty and progress; and
though he did not yield to any principle of superstition,
he was of opinion that the time bad not arrived when
prescription could be lightly treated by the House of
Commons. The violation of prescription was an element
of disturbance—it led to discontent, offered a premium to
extravagant prejudices, and invited men to bee irdous
objects and schemes, and were it for no other reason
than these he would warn the House against that which
was becoming a continuous and systematic deficiency in
the aggregate number of the Members of the House.
If tho Government followed their own inclinations, he
hardly knew a subject which they might not more pro-
perly evade than the present, which was essentially in-
vidious. They did not propose this measure to lengthen
the duration of Parliament, but because they consi-
dered it of great importance that the constitutional
number of Members should be completed before the
dissolution.—(Hear, hear.) The impending dissolution,
instead of being a reason against the Bill, was the,
strongest argument in favour of making some ar-
rangement. That unfortunate jealousy existing be-
tween town and country gave rise to a tendency
to consider whether other elements for forming a consti-
tuency might not be devised than those which had hitherto
formed the elements of the electoral body. Many plans
for that purpose had been suggested, which were en-
titled to very great retpect. • The lion. Member for
Malden had given notice of a motion for apportioning
two seats to the University of London. That pro-
position would not give rise to any prejudice in his
mind, but on the contrary excited his interest
and sympathy. He could not but admire the idea of
permitting science and learning to exercise the popular
suffrage, but when the question was examined, the diffi-
culties in the way were not inconsiderable. The plan,
however, was so plausable to the reason and captivating
to the imagination, that he could easily understand its
exciting the public interest and receiving the public ap-
probation. The Royal Society, for instance, wed a very
ancient institution; it was founded by a king, and
bad been composed of some of the greatest
men England have ever produced, and of whom
their fellow-subjects were most proud. Though he ad-
mitted the great attainments of this eminent body, he
thought the elements of which it was composed
would not be conducive to a proper representation.
-0-(Hear.) If such a principle wore carried out
there was no reason why it should not be extended to
the zoological, geological, ethnological, and other similar
societies.—(Laughter.) In fact, they would place it in
the power of any body of men who gave themselves a
scientific name to claim the franchise.—(blear, hear.)
Tho difficulties were too great to be contended against.
He did not wish to impugn or to trench on the privileges
of those societies, but if they looked at their constitution
they would find that they were generally self-elected bodies.
They had also considered the claim of the London Uni-
versity, and they did not find that circumstances pre-
vailed there to entitle it to the concession. It was not
yet fatly developed, nor was it sufficiently extensive to
justify the claim, and it must therefore be passed by.
to concede one Member: to the four inns of
Another proposition which had been made to them was
court.
No doubt the Members of the four inns of court would
h en ir
d members
many
o f
make
.up a considerab
pnleosiotn in
niostituenh
occupied aconspicuous
them had often found their way into Parliament
ci
history, o ry T,
a
where they had rendered the country great
service; but there was a prejudice, which he did not
share, against the too considerable appearance of lawyers
in the House of Commons.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman then continued—l beg to
say, Sir, that I do not share it, because I remember how
much of our liberty is owing to cur law, and is founded
upon our law, and that lawyers have been the greatest
champions of the rights of the people of England. I
coulees I am surprised, therefore, at the existence of a
prejudice such as this.—(Hear.) When I recollect that
the lawyers have been, not only the great assentors of
English liberties, but also the greatest ornaments of the
House of Commons; when I recollect that Sir Edward
Coke and Lord Bacon both sat in this House; when I
recollect the revered age of Mr. Selden and Lord Somers,
and in after days the golden eloquence of Mansfield and
the majestic virtues of Romilly; when I recollect that
the deecendaats of many of these eminent men it is still
our pride and boast to remember are Bitting in this as-
sembly, I cannot, I confess, agree in a prejudice which
,
I think is totally unwarranted by facts.—(Cheers.) It
would not do I am
perfectly aware, for her Majesty's
Government to propose, unless the proposition were at-
tended by some identical or analagous projects, to allot
one or more of the four vacant seats to the inns of court;
therefore, on the part of her Majesty's Government,e
after the most painful consideration, and with the
most ample desire to introduce constituencies founded
ndedupon these elements, and believing that they m
con-
tribute to the increased reputation of this assembly, a
ss:mbly, I
must renounce at present any attempt_iarorto,
impracticable
consti-
tuency out of those interesting, but, Ift. practicable
elements.—(Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances,
o
Sir, I have now to place before the House the results of
the next step in the inveetigati
upon this subject, and the course ns
which, on the whole, by the Government
they think
deem one of the highest
it best for the House to follow, in order to
accomplish that which they
duties of the Housc7naemtely, to complete its constitu-
tionale
the impending dissolution.
numbers prevo had previous
first to consider where we
—(Hear, hear.)
cntide the osse • mon of the whose trust we could c P
should seek for the elements of a new constituency, to
relative claims of different portions
no-
blest privileges which
.freemen can exercise. We have
o sidered that the
col °the community very much depend upon the relative
degree of representation that they now possess; and
that that relative degree of representation could not,
on the whole, be more fairly tested than by
ascertaining the number of the existing consti-
tuencies, and the numbers of the population by whom
those existing constituencies are, as it were, fed,
supplied, and maintained. And in looking over
the different constituencies of this country, guided
by this principle, there is one constituency, the
claims of which seem to her Majesty's Government to be
paramount, and that is the constituency of the West
Riding of Yorkshire.—(oh, oh, and laughter from the
1-Oppoaition, and heir, heat from the Ministerial benchte.)

,f

Sir, I certainly did not expect ever to hear the claims
this eonetitueocv d, sided by leneral Mecshers.-(Hear
hear.) Her M jesty's Government propose to noir
mend to tt:e 11ou,e that two of tho,e seats shall be IT ri
portioned to the West Riding of Ysrkshire.-(Cheere)
The constituency of the West Rding of Yorkshire is, 0.
lion. Gentlemen are aware, about 37,000. Generally
speaking ,•ho re[r,sentation of the county has been, as
tar as the great material interests are concerned. neer
tralised, in the opinions of its Members, in this House.
The ogricultural or manufacturing interests have gene:
rally sent M, misers into the House of Commons ot sac"
opposite political opinions in reference to these great in'
terests, that they have sustained a nicely-halinced en'ver
upon the import,int subjects concocted with these Inte"
rests.-(llear.) But on remarkable occasions, when Pod*
pular ft sling has been much excited, that hes hanPeces
which has getserallv hsppened under such circumstance
-namely, although the parties in this greaedistrict
nicely balanced, popular opinion has just given the elvrt°
tug impulse to the election, and two Members ot le
same opinion hero been sent here as reprtseutslilli's
as in IS4I. for example; and a moiety of t
great constituency has been practically distranebis.ehe
-( P
Elear, hear.) Sir, under theSe circumstence9, it Ifoi,
two Members were to be given without nviclieg
these difficulties, it is very probable that the same les-nd
would frequently occur under similar circumstances' :or
you would have four Members returned for the esti
ns
by a similar casting msjerity, and of the same °Pil:pin
as these returned in 1311. You have bad two Mel;‘,6
in the Huuse professing Conservative opinions, Who the
been returned by a snisll n•jority. Fvr ihstacce'oes
eonstitueecy being 37,000, I think the twe'Contwil.
Members elected in 1841 ws re returned by a 13'J ber
barely exceeding 1,000. Under such circumstances
0.
I‘l",i',4tY's Government thick the best esuree to ree'dis
mend is that the %Vest Riding of Yorkshire should be it
vidsd.-(Hear, hear.) And if the Housewill Perod
me to lay before them the reasons which bale in.dtilijcil
us to recommend that course, and the method by tai
we propose to carry out this division in order i° %ge,
that object, I will at once proceed to &0.-(;U of
0 hear.) Sir, when we had arrived at this-001ot
recommending to the House the division of the be
'
Riding of Yorkshire into two, each of "which deedno
represented by two Members, we naturally seProur
-
that that division could be effected by availing ding
selves of what I may call the natural and 11110
the
vv divisionsest of
Riding,the wd raepdeen,
taek,res.
the are ten - ado
takes, and by a division of these we naturally think the
our object can be effected. Bat when we exatejeseei
divisions of them wo find that they present diu'w- ijks
that are insurmountable. For example, one "Petcss
or hundred out of the ten possesses at this women there'
than one-third of the whole constituency. It wetisc,ch s
fore, found impossible that we could reconitnecu 6
aeThtehreey are called
division. There are other reasons to prevent to; it
division, which at the present moment I do' netlllesd
necessary to trouble • the House by detailing. "esroper
it impossible under such circumstances to effect PA, of
division by availing ourselves of the natural clittrie-dip
the county. That being the case, we thought tkiii.oe of
culties might he overcome by estalslishinten dillies 0
the west riding by means of the polling-places., carter
it is in the power of the justices in their emitter gkosso
sessions to change these districts at their will, the b la
will see that we are ,again baffled in effecting lucid not
arrangement, for a division of this character weeretsre,
afford us any permanent boundary. We, theh', the
think it impossible to effect our object "eleptioe
present system of electoral diviiiovss at
has, however, been made to us to Meet tu-ese
culty; it is one which I observe has tran9Pl'oest
Ido not regret it; but it has led to some of the seer
unfounded and ludicrous representations that haver;
been circulated. It was represented to use ,h
poN
comity magistrates of the West Ridinge for!coo7
poses, at this very time and for some periodhec:eeor
e
ing the necessity of dividing the West Riding, oar •
structed a division of the riding; and we averee-t
mended to consider that division. It appears tpflt: 1/01
have not yet formally adopted this arrangereellsltee'
they have frequently discussed it amongst theotfri6,oo
and it has been received with great favour by gern-eoe
it
eisghoereffrorstHeoh.
)omeos
ueTi
Midland
hhei tedeiolscamtoonauidakdneelt
netaonhdi
:et
wißpt simple • and b
of different ooinions in the county. I have this
y
Igtdhheiecbefralaewnrteiboseohmnsuoilnw.Rd(aitedloriythnt
alaeeyielibwytal:oyib.twi.tcwhohei.riiceve°-,10:15e9:1;
lead to Skipton; then turning towards Cole,At Olt
until it meets the town of Manchester. This v-lftb°
would thus effect the constituency. All that par,' 1 ere,,
country lying south and west of the line, we ah°l
fld e
pose to call the southern division of the county; ail the
that part lying north and east, we propose' to cliwor
northern division of the west riding. Wherever 6'oll
ship intersects this line, we propose that ti och
belong to the northern division, in order that 0;,
township should be divided or overlooked' in Web of
rangemenr. The effect of the constituency fa el or
these divisions as to numbers will then be this--thes,96s.
atituency of the northern division will amount to Dog)
and that of the southern division 18,785.-'4Chefericiet.
Now I have considered, with some attention, a er'jjeefr
that has met my eye, and which, I confess, in the
_tioes
news of its remarks, reminded me of some obserrestiott
which I have heard elsewhere. I find the great occrectioa
brought against this project is founded upon this:cd out
-that the northern division we have thus 0,,,,er 0001
composed of an agricultural 'constituencY•
saasyafor
argument-if myself-and
tlheo ffle7r,otohoi. s
teener in this division be composed oarsaloBrfe:ol3:°:°;:°°l::lb.et:isoitrilifi:
terssted in agriculture, I see no reason why ibenYi the:
not he represented in this House as well as 11,3 °l*lses'
constituency within the kin dom.-hear, `
more, I cannot understand wh an objection se-- this
made to 17,900 persons forming a constitueEnY 1: son'
northern division being represented by Peres°,.- dot
connected with the arricuitural interest, any 133-enel
the 18,900 in the southern division being represai'reollf
a person intimatelyconnected with ManUfaCtUre• the
think that 17,000 or 18,000 independent electors 'oivic
county have a right to choose those Members theY
most entitled to their confiderce.-(Hear, beerol)sct
of
it should be observed it the division have 'the „` vow
making one portion of the West Riding alteoe"y
agricultural-if that were true, in the salve 7009
leave the other division, the southern divistart, entirely
manufacturing; and therefore it might be -1(1'1,9;s quer
jetted to us that we take a contracted vievrot twigb, be
Lion in reference to this latter division, for
it %a for
said that by such an arrangement the Ho.
;'lll. erratum;
the West Riding (Mr. Cobden) will be ettre-05. that
Live for life, for we are giving him a colte,lle et, that
is entirely devoted to him-(Hear. hear)-It el: the re;
the Hon. Member for the West Riding mot 0'
presentative of a constituency in which the salt 01r
othpipsoas irtriaonngeenmi setne.t-(Hear, if re. vire
Eithettatr'thheeaHr.)on.Welli
member for t_truee.
Riding shall have a permanent Beat in. this ll° 0
cannot say that I shall regret it. Whet:
be sorry to are him absent from this se.
a man has the power of influeveing opinew,
o_,
is, in my mind, much better that he should be r
sible for his conduct in an assembly like this thanl°,
he should exercise his great talents in other scene; or
dependently of his responsibility as a member :1031
I confess that I shoo
British House of Commons.-(Bear, hear.) I°
th
of the county magistrates which.expresses their P de 0
perceive that the division therein marked out is ret
l
connexion with a iimple and intelligible lino of rail*a
by which Leeds, although a manufacturing t°llolfol'
thrown into the northern division. We propose te°o4o
low that intelligible line of railway, and to.Jeare •
in its natural 'poshion-the northern division.
,11„csitte
, division may, no doubt, prevent Leeds exerefsivg ell
authority in connexion with the interests of the scee-abfee
division. The southern division is entirely leu-sroei
Leeds, and
aint,dthbeyreafouroew,
allowing it noto remaina.- in tehaetel'oci -opt!.
assistance we °roe A
division we shall be promoting 1.-fe.
tee enterr
0, in
energy of a great
manufacturing town worhierieet9'
larks •
egricultnral district. W the
as it ought
to be, shall b©the e propose
election for
town of _ lee„
northern division of the riding; and we ena. ll OOP
to Wakefield, • .
its former rival, to be the eleotic (atio°
for the ' soulern division.-(Hear, hear.) :reAlif
these details because I wish to show that 126.-000;
no.. selfish nor sinister desion in making this re %etre'
dation.-(Hear, hear.) Sir', we thou bat "5. ill°
ght It
to Parliament and the country that we show', edevls'et
into and consider well all the plans that couldeir's boog:
to effect the object which we have in view. r.,° too It;
it due to this House to bring forward our re," Ist'
tured that we could confidently recommend the4eotts '
your adoption which we consider more advee;
the community at large. But this, after slit "ee "„"l
tion for the Committee of this House. Alth°l4',„ent, 11:4
endeavour to support the views of the Goveow-gaese,
although I shall be prepared to express to lb° -jot 901,
another occasion, the minute details of this 5 for
all those reasons which I think can be erkeol'. /If-
, adoption of this. line of demarcation-0100211 be en:
have no other object in view but that there eue,:le to i'‘,l
vied into effect that plan which is most agreeey';ooeter!;
House, as well as most advantageous to Ihe,h-st
And if any gentleman can show to the House to fear
0 -
can be a line of demarcation more advantege°;ore `ll-0,
community-more just in its conception--0„, reoe'ato
in its application, end more beneficial ill.
her Majesty's Government will be but too or,
it
pleased to support it.-(Cries of " Hear, hear.) 900
remains for
.me to express to the House the view egarci too
, her Majesty's Government have adopteder„,,il3,, rr-anif d
the two other seats that are vacant. w
the two other seats that are vacant, we have
that on the whole we cannot be guided in ti""h" "el'
instance by a better principle than that ie". ;:tletofe
tempted to express. I would remind Hem `l-not !„,"
that the question we have to consider n 74 tee
large question of Parliamentary reform--3 -or of
portent question of completing the roller n°-to 10
31:Inhere in this House, with a due deferenc°. 110
t
existin arrangements in respect to the franchie_ ad
must, then, atiportion these seats with a due er4„o the.
our existing Parliamentary arravgetnents. Pecirwitli d
when this subject is discussed it will ha violet' re roe,
conviction of the truth of that observation. Thilesystl
be gentlemen who disapprove of the presen' 0 base
upon which the constituencies of the country !ee jegi';
Different opinions upon such a question mayuetat the%
maiely maintained and powerfully advecated• .b aiee;
questions do not enter into this discussion, escee
from the necessity of having to apportion thosets iv e.c:o
seats with due regard to all existing arranaetnened to te
spect to the franchise, and with a due rega.oiceorope
number of voters throughout the country, WhiCh..,, vibe c
must form a most material element in our inaut4oeset
we are called upon to decide upon the epPri`. a teb,
of those scate.-(Hear, hear.) Taking these
.a_o_reaeee
to 030
of the relative claims of the different
reP be:
representation-taking as a test the degree
tion venich they at present posssss-tukingt ILsold upto'
relative claims, and making such claims de' a en.
mong
their present relative representation, I find a _a,
siderable number of constituencies of counties nt'o,
UAW°
roughs-toe city Qu_Westkillatic, with aco