The Sun.
London, England, 1864-07-02 00:00:00

JAPAN.

Earl GREY then rose to move the resolutions relative
to this subject, which have already appeared in The Sun.
The noble earl said he thought the time had arrived when
the relations of the country with Japan should be taken
earnestly into consideration, and he had ventured to bring
forward the said resolutions. They did not imply cen.
sure on the Government, not because he approved of
their policy—far otherwise. What was already done could
not be undone, but he telt that if he could induce their lord-
ships to come to an expression of their opinion upon the
matter by agreeing to Us resolutions it would in a great
measure tend to diminish the dangers that might arise.
He had advisedly abstained from stating in his resolutions
the details of the modifications which he desired, because he
die not think it was for Parliament bat for the Government
to lay down the details of our policy. The present seemed
to him a very favourable time for negotiations, because after
the recent destruction of Kagosima it was impassible the
Japanese should misconstrue our motives. It is desirable
for our own sake that we should enter on such negotiations
because although he did not think that we were so defence.
less as the Foreign Secretary seemed to think the other
night—(hear, hear)—it was still not desirable for us at the
present time to engage in warlike operations at a distance.
The first modification which ought to be made in the existing
treaty was the abolition of the clause which exempted Bri-
tish subjects in Japan from the jurisdiction of the Japanese
law. But even if the principle of extra territoriality as ap-
plied to our subjects was retained at all, its application
should be confined within the narrow space' required for
carrying on our trade. And within those limits means far
more effectual than existed at present should be provided for
the punishment of Englishmen who were guilty of outrages
against the Japanese. It was desirable to reduce and sim-
plify as much as possible the conditions of our treaty with
Japan, because there would then be a far greater chance
than at present that it would be observed. After adverting
to the amount of our naval force in the Chinese and Ja-
panese waters, the noble earl dwelt upon the expediency of
reducing it materially, both on account of theexpense which
it entailed upon us, and on account of its tendency to keep
up a state of irritation between ourselves and the people of
those countries. It was in vain to expect that a profitable
commerce could be carried on, except between nations who
entertained mutual goodwill tor each other ; and that could
never exist between England and Japan so long as the pre-
sent treaty was maintained. The noble earl concluded by
moving the adoption of an address to her Majesty.
Earl RUSSELL complained that the noble earl had
thrown very little light upon the means which he thought
ought to be adopted in order to improve our intercourse
with Japan. The noble earl aimed at subverting our whole
policy, in regard not only to Japan and China, but to all
Eastern nations. It was not tree that our treaty with Japan
was extorted by intimidation on the part of Lord Elgin.
That noble lord had only a frigate and two gunboats with
him at the time, a force hardly sufficient for any such pur-
pose. Besides, other nations had made such treaties with
Japan before; and others, again, had done so since, And
what had been the fruits of that treaty ? That in the course
of a few years a foreign commerce to the extent of seven
minims annually had sprung up with Japan. Did his noble
friend desire to stop that? Certainly not, for he said he de-
sired to see our commerce extended, but this could not be
done if we abandoned the treaty under which our present
commerce had sprung up. Then the noble lord objected to
the extra-territoriality clause under which British subjects
resident in Japan were placed under British and not Japa-
nese law, Bat such a clause was fouled in all our treaties
with Oriental nations. And it was necessary that we should
have a clause. For the laws of Japan were of a sangu nary
character; and what, he would ask, would be said in Eng-
land if we heard of English merchants being tortured or
disembowelled, or their relatives put to death by the Japa-
nese ? He thought that that would be far more likely to
lead to war than the present system. He deeply regretted
that the behaviour of Englishmen in Japan, as in China
and in India, was very often of a very unsatisfactory cha-
racter. He had received only that morning a letter from Sir
F. Bruce, in which he complained of the insolence, the dis-
regard of native feeling, the want of courtesy, displayed by
Englishmen towards Chinese. These faults', and the disputes
and collisions to which they gave rise, could not be cured or
avoided by any alterations in our treaties. All that could be
done was to let Englishmen who offended know that they
would not be supported in improper and overbearing conduct
towards the natives ; and he trusted in timeithis vold lead
to an improvement in their bearing. England and English
policy was not responsible for the dissensions which pre-
vailed in China between the Tycoon, the Mikado, and the
Daimios. They arose from the desire of each of these indi•
viduals or classes to obtain ascendancy over the others. The
noble earl had severely blamed the conduct of Government
in exacting reparation for the murder of Mr Richardson ;
bat he (Earl RuE•sell) did not see the matter in that light.
Mr Richardson at the time of his murder was oa a road
where by treaty he had a perfect right to be. The Govern-
ment thought that required reparation; and as it was re-
fused, we took two vessels belonging to him. Thereupon
his batteries opened fire; and he apprehended that when
that wee; done our fleet had no alternative but to return it.
They could not run away. And it had since turned out
that very few persons except the soldiers in the batteries
were killed; while the town of Kagosima had been rebuilt,
and was now handsomer than ever. The result of the action
at Kagosima had been to impress upon the mind of Prince
Satsume's followers a salutary conviction of our strength ;
and the Prince himself had since displayed towaras us the
mos' friendly feeling He believed, for his own part, that
a serious war was much more likely to arise from our suffer •
ing murders and outrages committed against Englishmen to
pass with impunity, than from promptly and fit mly exacting
reparation when it was due to us. His noble friend had
dwelt upon the mechanical ingenuity of the Japanese, and
he hoped their tendency to profit by European inventions
evonld lead to friendly intercourse between us. He (Earl
Russell) did not, however, think that a proposition on our
part to alter the existing treaties would have that effect. So
tar from conciliating the Japanese, it would lead them to
think we were weak and were afraid of them. And it was cer-
tain that if such an impression were entertained peace would
not be preserved. They certainly had not heard from the
noble earl (Earl Grey) of any modifications in those trea-
ties which could be advantageously effected. He was afraid
that for some time to come it would be necessary to keep a
considerable naval force in the Japanese waters. It was quite
possible that one of the Japanese parties would try to drive
foreigners out of the country. But he did not think that
we ought to suffer the stipulations of our treaty to he thus
overridden, and a stop to be thus put to an intercourse ad-
vantageous both to Japan and to ourselves. All that we
could do was not to alter and modify our treaties ; but to go
on steadily; quietly, and firmly, standing upon our rights,
and improving our friendly relations as far as possible. He
was quite certain that no good would be done by departing
from the principles which had hitherto governed our deal-
ings with Eastern nations. (Hear, hear.)
The Bishop of OXFORD had listened with great disap-
pointment to Earl Russell's speech. It did not remove any
of the apprehensions which had been excited in his mind
by Earl Grey's address. There could be no doubt that the
treaty of 1858 was made by the Japanese under a fear of
our power. This was distinctly stated by Sir Rutherford
Aleock, who also said that there was no party whatever in
Japan, which was favourable to foreign commerce, or to
permitting foreigners to enter the country. Nay, more;
cr.,,or e.
din to the same eminent authority, the distaste for
foreigners had deepened since the ports had been opened.
It might be true that Prince S ttsuma had behaved towards
Its in a more friendly manner since the destruction of Kago-
sima; but the fact was, that he and the other Daimioswere
Preparing armaments and maturing projects for vengeance.
And so in the meantime both he and they naturally refrained
from offending us. The most enlightened amongst the Ja-
panese urged upon us that even if uur measures were right,
we were attempting to g and to introduce changes
furwhich the Japaneseo too fast,
were not prepared. He believed
that the effsct of the policy we were at present pursuing
must, although we did not intend it, be to reduce Japan to
a state of ungoverned enerohv. He did not believe that,
apart from our interference, there was any such dissen-
sion amongst the Mikado, the Tycoon, and the Daimios, as
was likely to interfere with the good government and
prosperity of the country' What would become of our
trade if Japan by our policy were reduced to anarchy ? He
felt with Earl Grey that, on the eternal principles. we had
no right, in the sight of God, to force on an in dependent
he'
people by force of arms a commerce which they refused.
E ebelieved that if we disregarded justice and •• •
violated right
retribution would be certnin to overtake us,
The Duke of SO :tIERSET was understood to
ay
whether or not the treaty of 1858 was obtained 'by that
we could not go back to the state of things which
existed
force
previously ; nor did he think that it was chsirable to attemptis
to make a uew treaty. If we proposed to do anything
of
the kind, it would, he believed, almost inevitably lead to
war. Th.e noble earl had asserted that the English under-
Leek to protect British subjects in every part of Japan, but
such was not the fact, as the protection only extended to
Yokohama and other places. It was also a mistake to
suppose that the Daimios had an o`jection to trade. The
truth was, that they were not averse to trade, but they
thought they ought to get some of the profits of it. Now,
as tho old treaty c eeld not be enforced, whet would be the
use of negotiaing, another ? We had already secured
certain rights in Japan, which the Japanese themselves
aJmitted. So far from the burning of their towns having
had an evil effect, it had produced the best results, Kago-
sima was rebuilt in a few days. He had heard on trust-
worthy authority, that an establishment for the education
of young ladies which was burnt down on the Monday was
built up again on the following Friday. (A laugh.) It
was very clll3-..ult for us to deal with the Japanese, as we
were almost entirely ignorant of their t habits and preja-
dic, s. He thought our beet course would be to adhere to

the treaty, and at the same time to practice mod' ration
towards the people.
The Earl of CARNARVON observed that uritil the
last two years the traders with Japan were we% thy and
respcnsible persons, but now they were for the most part
people of, small means, who carried on their trade in an
illegal manner, in total defiance of all treaty obligations.
We ought to interfere, in order to impose upon such persons
proper checks and restraints. He was sorry to say it was
not only the foreign traders who were open to blame, for
the papers showed that the consuls themselves, who were
placed there for judicial purposes, too often acted more like
politicians than judges. This important question of Japan
ought not to be treated as a party matter. He agreed sub-
stantially with what had fallen from his noble friend, and
he assented to the spirit of all the resolutions except the
last, in which he was unable entirely to concur.
sarl GREY having briefly replied,

Their lordships divided. The numbers were—

Contents
Non-contents .. 11
Majority
COUNTY CONSTABULARY SUPERANNUATION