The Sun.
London, England, 1864-12-06 00:00:00

would like us to go in her. 1 didn't see Mr Rumble
on board at Calais. The captain addressed us the
day after we arrived. Afterwards he came on board
in uniform—a grey suit. When we went from
Woolwich to Sheerness Mr Rumble paid us a
sovereign.

Cross-examined by Mr Bovill—Mr Ferguson engaged
me at Woolwich. He was chief enginer. I knew Mr
Ferguson ; I had been with him before. I had no conver-
sation with Mr Rumble about going on board. When I
got on board nobody was on board but the cook and Mr.
Ramsay. Nothing was being done. Carr told us what to
do. We were to work at the engine and boilers, The
boiler makers also worked at them. The tubes were in a
very bad state. lam breaking up ships now. I have re-
ceived nothing besides my wages except 12s 6d a week. I
get that from Rochester, from Essell, Knight, and Arnold
—that is to keep me from going to sea. I have received it
five or six weeks. Cole, Brooks, and Giuno have also re
ceived it. I have talked it over with Cole and Brooks—
they are at work with me. I know O'Kelly ; I see him
about once a-week ; we have a glass of beer. When we
are dry we have a glass at a public-house. I once went to
London to meet O'Kelly; that is, I went to London and
ran against him accidentally. We had some beer. I first
made a statement about this time last year ; it was in a
public-house. Thero were Mr O'Kelly and two or three
more there. I had seen him before; he came to the factory
gate at Woolwich, Ho and Brooks, Giuno, Bailey, and
Herbert. That was the morning after we came back. We
didn't have as much beer as we liked.

Lord Chief Justice—How much did you like? I think
there were three pots of half-and-half. Next time I saw
O'Kelly was at Woolwich. He promised to find us all ships.
He has never given me any money to stay. 1 din% know
who he is or where he lives. I saw him last week. I saw
him this morning. We didn't have any beer this morning
I should rather like to have some. He gave me 12s 6d a
week or two back. I was examined before the magistrates.
I don't know whether I told them that Rumble said, " If
I got back 1 needn't work any more, and he would like to
go me halves." It was Mr Ferguson first told me to go
into the cabin and sign the articles. Mr Rumble gave
a guinea the first Saturday. I didn't know where the
ship was going. Nobody told me. I had no idea of the
Confederate service until we got to Calais. The idea on
board of the ship was that she was going into
the opium trade. Mr Ramsay engaged me as storekeeper
for fnizrtonn chyp, for a trial trip to Brest. The

tubes had to be repaired in Calais; they were not fit to go
to sea. The riggers were on board when we crossed. The
Sheerness tradesmen were sending stores on board when
we left. I would not have enlisted in the Confederate ser-
vice. Captain Ramsay made the flag while we were off
Calais, and hoisted it next morning.
A Juryman—What would have been the ordinary wages
for a trading voyage? Witness—£l or £llOB to £5.
Re-examined—Mr Rumble paid me a guinea twice. When
Ferguson asked me to go in and sign articles Mr Rumble
was the first that spoke about them.
The Lord Chief Justice—You get 12s 6d from these
attorneys. 'What is your wages? Witness-13s a week.
James Hurford (examined by Mr V. llarcourt)—l am a
ship breaker. Last autumn I was employed on the ship
Scylla. I was sent there by Mr Ferguson. I went to
Sheerness. I saw Mr Rumble. Ho paid us our expenses
of getting there. Then I went on board. Some days after
I wont on board I saw him again. All of us went and asked
Mr Rumble what wages we were to have. lle said he could
give us a guinea a week. We agreed to those terms. I
remember the ship sailing. The day before that I saw Mr
Rumble en board. I was on board when the vessel went

to Calais. I stayed on board her there seven or eight days.
I was cleaning up when we were talking about wages. Mr
Rumble said the captain was not in England, tut would bo
there in three or four days' time. I was to be leading
stoker. Capt. Campbell was the captain when we were at
Calais. lie asked me to sign the ship's articles, I would
not. I asked Capt. Campbell what the ship was. I would
not join unless we had leave, like a man of war, to go on
shore every other night. He wouldn't agree to that.
Cross-examined by Mr Karslake—l was at Woolwich
when I was engaged. I didn't know Carr. I didn't know I
was to be leading stoker. Firth, Carr, Cousins, and I went
down. When I got on board I had a job at the engines.
I can't say how long after I got on board the name of
Scylla was painted on. We told Rumble on the same day
wo came down that it was not 1111111 for men to pay
their own expenses down to the ship, and he paid us
those expenses. I gave Firth some of the money. We
divided it. Don't know whether Firth was present. I was
coaling ship the day she left, Can't say what time of day I
saw Rumble. I believe it was in the morning. The super.
intendent of police was there. I did not see him. I did not
see the superintendent and Rumble searching the ship to
see if there were any stores on board. I said nothing about
the owner being away, only about the captain, when I was
examined More the magistrate. I have seen O'Kelly 30
or 40 times perhaps. I have had beer with him at Wool-
wich. Ile don't treat me. We drink beer together. I
stand a pot to his pot, I have seen Firth with him. They
generally come to the factory gates. O'Kelly just asks
after my health. Since I was examined I have seen him
perhaps opca a week. lle sees I don't go away. I am
obliged to stay here. Mr O'Kelly said I musn't go away.
I didn't see Firth receive 12s Gd.

Re-examined-•-Ramsay and Rumble were on board when
1 went on board, I applied for the guinea, Mr Ramsay
said that he had nothing to do with it, We were to go to
Rumble when he came on board. Mr Pearson went with
the ehip to Calais,
Charles Coles, examined by the Solicitor General—l am
sometimes stoker, sometimes engineer. I applied to be em-
ployed on board the Scylla. I went on board the Scylla. I
first saw Mr Rumble in the factory. I didn't speak to him.
Mr Rumble gave the passage money to Burford. Mr Rum-
ble was frequently on board. The first week I got a guinea
from him for wages. That was on board the ship. lie said
we were a good lot of men, and he didn't wish to lose the
run of us. We didn't know until then what we were to
get. Then Mr Rumble told us we were to get one guinea
and our food. Wo were to have anything we wanted, but
no grog. I heard some of the min ask where the ship was
going to. Mr Rumble said when they came home he
shoould liko to go us halves. Mr Rumble came on

---
board very often, Ho looked after us to see that every-
thing was going on right. He once gave directions about
a tube in the boiler. Ho was there sometimes an hour, some-
times half an hour. Mr Rumble said that if we left our
money in his hands he would send it home to our wives. I
went down to sign articles. Mr Ramsay, Mr Rumble, and
another person were there. Mr Ferguson was also there.
Mr Rumble asked if we were going to join the ship. I de-
clined. He then asked it we would go with the ship on a
trial trip not to exceed fourteen days. I said that I would,
with a written condition. He said if 1 liked to go I could
go. Mr Ramsay drew up the condition. Up to the day we
started from Sheerness Mr Ramsay commanded. When
we got off Calais I saw a Confederate flag flying. Another
captain came on board the day after we came in. He sent
for us aft. He told us he was our captain, and told us we
must consider ourselves Confederate men-of-war's-men, and
asked if wo would sign articles. I would not. Mr Rumble,
when we were at Sheerness, had previously offered us £6 a
month if we would join the ship. We would not under £8
a month. Ho said the company could not afford it.

A Juryman—Was there any mention of any voyage the
ship was going ? Witness—Nothing, except what I have
eaid. I didn't see Mr Ramsay at Calais.
A Juryman—What made you ask £S a month ? Wit-
ness—Because I had received it before in another voyage.
Mr Rumble never paid me anything except the passage
money to Sheerness and the guinea.
Cross-examined by Mr Bovill—The last two or three weeks
I havo had no work, I came back from China two months
ago. For throe weeks I have received 12s Gd a week. I don't
know who ho is that gives it to me. Ho is a respectable per.
son. It was not a Mr O'Kelly. I didn't know Ferguson till
the Sunday evening before going to Sheerness, I went down

with Carr, Firth,and llurford; we all went on board together,
I did not speak to Rumble. It is not usual to have the ex-
penses from Woolwich to Sheerness. Mr Rumble said in the
cabin that he was authorised by the company to pay us a
guinea a week. 1 didn't hoar him say he was acting for the
owner. I had no notion she was a Confederate ship until
we got off Calais. I had no idea except going on a trial trip.
I don't know on what day that arrangement was made.
Nothing was said to my knowledge about ship's articles
before it was mentioned by Captain Campbell in Calais. I
didn't know Mr Pearson. I was given to understand he
was on board. Tho boilers wero not fit for going a trial
trip.

Re-examined by the Solicitor-General—I never heard
what passed between Carr and Rumble. The Government
tug took us out of Sheerness harbour the night we left. I
saw the tug there two or three miles out.
By a Juror—What wages did you get for going to China?
—I signed for £1 102, and after a month out I had £5 10s.
Charles Newman—l am a stoker. I first made application
to Mr Greathead to be taken on board the Scylla. He re-
ferred mo to Mr Rumble. He told me to go on board and
sea the mate. I saw Mr Ramsay, the mate. He told me to
call the following day, and I called. I asked him where the
ship was bound ; he said he couldn't tell me. He couldn't
give me any satisfactory answer about wages. He said,
"Trust to me, and you shall have the first opening as a
petty officer." I was to go on board the following morning.
That was Wednesday. I learned that she was gone when I
went to go on board. I saw Mr Rumble. I said I had missed
my passage in the Scylla. He said, " I suppose you are
aware she has arrived in Calais." I said I was. Mr Great-
head was there, He talked about engaging me. I said I had
been in the American service with Captain Maffit, on board
the Florida. Mr Rumble said he thought perhaps I should
be a very ueful man. I told him I left the service on my
mother's account, He said he was going to London to see
the Confederate agent; that he would drop me a note, I
did not call for the note; I was too busy. Afterwards I was
and
huenaasb asked about ab
moe utif
I
alfirrailtd of getting into trouble. I had previously spoken to
my
beingcouid ogne get he
other
s cahc)avregi r a °in ts ship,
he
thought I could.
Cross-examined
by Mr Bcvill—l am now at Sheerness. I have been there five years
did not know she was a
Confederate, and thought I I
could better myself. I saw
Mr Greathead first ; afterwards I saw
I told him I should like to join the
sh'Mr Rumble alone.
ship at Calais, after I
knew she was a Confederate. I didn't care which Ijoined,