The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-05 00:00:00

LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE ss 1852.

Of Buds the market is without supply. Cloves are firm
in price and in fair demand; Bourbon and Zanzibar 6d to
460, Amboyna 7d to Bd, and Penang 10id to is 2d.
Of Pepper supply ke4ps scanty,
and there are several
buyers both for shipping and home consumption, at stiff
rates. Sales privately of Malabar made at 3id, to 40.
Penang and Sumatra 31d to 7ii. White is in fair re-
quest at Bid to Hid, and Cayenne 7d to ls. Of Pod
34 pkgs at public sale realized 45s to 50s for ord and mid,
the value of better kinds being 55s to 80s per cwt. Cin-
namon is not dearer, yet a fair demand exists. Ceylon,
first sort, at is 9d to 2s 9d; second ditto is 3d to 2s;
third and fourths is to is 7d per lb.
INDlGo.—Operations in East India have been small
fo.' all purposes this week, still holders continue firm,
and r,-,?uire last sale's rates to a small advance. At
auction 25 zthests Fig Indigo sold at 2s 5d to 3s, and 114
chests mainDs at Is 6d to 4s 3d for low to fine. Quar-
terlyxed for the lath of July, and are
900 chests; at present the quan-
tity announced is 3,300 cher;;".? ,
expected
aaletso caornet in 1
Spanish is less wanted,
but supplies continue small, and price* to range firm;
a
Guatemala, Flores 5s 2d to 5s 6d, Sobres 45 6d to ss,
Cortes 2s 9d to 4s sd. Stock is 1,300 serons less
than last season, and deliveries 2,600 larger.
SALTPETRE.—The market has a dull aspect; supplies
are increasing, and prices compared with last week
show a decline of 6d to is per cwt. Of 5,400 bags Cal-
cutta at auction, a small part only found buyers; refrac-
tion 14 to 61 per cent. at 24s to 26s 6d, at 27s 6d to
29a for 5 to 2 per cent.; 300 bags Madras realised 23s
6d to 24s for 91,-, and 18 cases Cochin 24s to 24s 6d
for 111 to 15k. Operations in British Refined have been
upon a small scale at 29s to 30s. Nitrate of Soda is
held for 14s 61 to 15s, yet little business has been
done. . .

OlLS.—This afternoon at public sale 75 tons Sperm
sold at 871 to 881, 100 hhds Cochin Cocoa Nat 34s 6d
to 355. The closing rates for Linseed Oil are 273 to 27s
3d, and with a dull market.
TALLOW.—This afternoon the public sales of Tallow
went at full rates, but 620 pkgs South American sold at
32s 6d to 36s 3d; 270 csks Sydney 33s 6d to 37s 9d;
270 oaks East India 34s to 39s 6d, and 150 casks vege-
table 375.

PRovisrosts.—There is a reluctance to operate in
Irish Batter, and a desire is evinced to sell new Lime-
rick at 70s to 725; Waterford 72s to 763; Carlow, Clon-
mel, and Kilkenny, 73s to 675. For arrival purchases
can be made under these terms; yet littla business has
be:n done. Dutch has been in lively demand, and
pric.,:s have improied; Friezland fine selling at 72s
to 743, surplus and inferior 60a to. 68s; Holland
fine 62s to 665, inferior 54s to 605; Kampen and Zwolle,
fine 66s to 7.03; Bosch from 55s to 625; Gronningen
fine 603 to 625; Leer ditto 649 to 665, inferior 52s to
583; Holstein arl.tl Kiel, fine 72s to 76s per cwt.
English sells more freely at 583 to 78s; and Fresh at
6s 6d to 104 6d per dozen lbs. In Bacon large trans-
actions have taken place; and the market has a
firm aspect. Irish small Moat realised 50s to 545,
heavy 475.t0 51s; and Hambro' 48s to m 3 per cwt.
In Irish a good deal has been free on board. A brisker
sale exists for middles and 44s to 46s is the value of bale
and tierce. Navy Provisions continue to be much wanted,
and stocks being light there is a further advance, Irish
India Pork realising 145 s to 150. s per tierce. Prime mess
85s; and Bacon mess 80s per barrel. Of prime India
Beef scarcely any is on offor, and mess finds a free
sale at from 85s to 1103 per tierce. A slow
sale exists for Hams—lrish can be obtained at 46s to 60s,
and English 60s to 665. Lard has been dealt in with
csution; there are freasellers.of Irish bladdered at 541
to 595, keg and firkin 46s to 523, Hamburgh bladdered
55s to 58s, and American 533 to 545. In Cheese larger
sales have been made, Edam 32s to 425, Gouda 28s to
40s, Kanter 17s to 17s 6d, and American 283 to 403
ner cwt.

BANK OF ENGLAND.
(From last night's Gaiette.)
An Account, pursuant to the Act 7th and Bth of Victoria, cap. 32 fo
the Week ending on. Saturday, the 29th day of may, 1852.
fseua DEPABTMENT.

/Totes issued.. .....; 34;187,115

Government debt 11,015,100
Other securities .. 2,984,900
Gold coin and bullion 20,153,740
Silver bullion .• • • • . 33,375

£34,187,115 £34,187,115
Mr. MARSEIALL, Chief Cashier.

Dated the 3d day of June, 1852.
DAWNING D 1

lEPASTraII

Proprietors'capital.• 14,553,000
Nest •........ 3,077,028
Public deposits (in-
cluding Exchequer,
Commissioners of
National Debt,Sav-
ings-banks,andDl-
- accouno) •• 5,566,299
Other deposits .• • 13,182,382
Seven day and other
Bills .... 1,242,195

Goveranient send-
ties (including Dead
Weight Annaity).. 13,874,572
Other securities •... 10,704,645
Notes .............. 12,542,285
Gold and silver coin.! 499,402

X 37,620,904

£ 37,620,904
M. MARgyfALL, Chief Cashier.

Dated the 3d day of Jane, 1852.

SEABORNE MAILS.
[N signifies that the mails are sent from the General Post-office
by the night—and M by the morning--dispatch.] -

coast in consequence of the discovery of gold in California.
The vote wa4 then agreed to.
A vote of 19,5281 vro.s then agreed to for the Governor
and Deputy Governor of the West India Islands.
A vote of 33,8621. for the expenses of the Justices of
the West India Islands and the Mauritius eras agreed to.
On the motion that 13,7801. be voted for the Civil
Establishments of the West Coasts of Africa,
Mr. ANSTEY objected to the sum cf 400/. included
in this vote for the salary of the chaplain of Gambia.
He wished to know the reason why Sierra Leone sup-
ported its own parsons and Gambia did not.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the reduction of the vote ...
Against it
Majority
The vote was tlaen agreed to.
A vote of 10,8021. for St. Helena was agreed to.
The next vole was 7,0591. to defray the ecclesiastical
expenses of Western Australia.
Mr. ANSTEY objected to paying the chaplain's sti-
pend and rent, amounting to 3001,
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the vote
114
Against it ••• •••

••• -105

Majority
The vote was accordingly ag:reed to.
The next vote was for 4911,,10 defray the expenses n
the establishment at Port Essington.
Mr. WILLIAMS obiected to the vote, but after a
brief discussion the vote was agreed to.
On the question that 10,0001. be voted to defray the
expenses of the Church Establishment in New Zealand,
Mr. ANSTEY moved that the sum be reduced by
1,1904 and declared his intention to divide the Com-
mittee on the vote.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, under
the circumstances, and looking to the hour, had no
alternative bat to move that the Chairman do report
progress. .
After a few words from Mr. L. HEYWORTH,
Mr. ANSTEY drew attention to certain omissions
which had been made in the estimates of sums that had
in former years been paid by the Treasury, and yet not
authorised by Parliament.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
items to which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman referred
were payable under distinct Acts of Parliament.
The CHAIRMAN, was then directed to report pro-
gress, and the House having resumed, he did so accord-
ingly, and- the report was ordered to be received on
Monday at twelve o'clock, and the Committee to sit
again at twelve o'clock on Thursday.
The Scutch Mills for Flax (Ireland) Bill went through
Committee.
The Pimlico Improvement Bill went through Com-
mittee pro
,formd
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ,an-
nounced that the Government proposed to take the
Metropolitan Interments Bill on Monday, at twelve
o'clock, and, if possible, the Water Bill afterwards.
The House rose at Pour o'clock.

The House resumed at Six o'clock.
PETITIONS.
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a petition from New
Brunswick against the Colonial Bishops Bill.
Mr. LACY presented a petition from a place in
Surrey, praying for the inspection of nunneries.
Mr. COBDEN presented a petition trom Aberdeen,
praying that no alteration might be made in the present
laws relating to the importation of corn.
Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY asked the Colonial
Secretary, in the absence of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, whether it was the intention of the Government
to place colonial sugar on the saw) footing as foreign
sugar, and to permit the refining of it in bond.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said that his Right Hon. Friend
had lately seen a deputation on this subject, but he could
not say what answer had been given by his Right Hon.
Friend.

NEW ZEALAND BILL.
Sir. J. FAKING 10N, in ri'dng to move that the
House should go into Committee on this Bill, said—
Sir, before moving that you do leave the chair, I have
several petitions to present in favour of the Bill. One is
from Mr. Fox, who has been nine years a resident of
the colony, and principal agent for the New Zealand
Company. Another is froin Mr. Wells, who for eight
years has been connected with New Zealand, being a
resident of Gladstone. The next is from the committee
of management 'of the Canterbury Association. Another
is from-Mr. Cooke, a nine years resident of New Ply-.
month. Another from Mr. Garrett, five years in the
colony.- Another is from a number of gentleman who
intend proceeding to Canterbury as colonists. The
next petition is from Mr. Gibbon Wakefield, the prayer
of which is directed to the question as to whether
there will be provincial legislatures or a central
legislature, but all the petitions express a strong
desire that this Bill shall be allowed to pass
into a law. Now, Sir, before moving that you leave
the chair, I am disposed to hope that I shall save
time, which I hold to be extremely valuable, by entering
Into an explanation of some changes which it is my in-
tention to propose to the House in this Bill. Since the
second reading of this Bill I have received suggestions
from several quarters, but principally from some • Hon.
Members of this House, gentlemen of the highest emi-
nence and distinction—gentlemen with whom I have
no political connexion, and whose courtesy and kind
feeling in offering these suggestions in the manner
which they did make it incumbent on me to say that I
should feel myself wanting in duty, as also in feeling,
did I not thus frankly acknowledge them.—(Hear,
hear.) I must say, Sir, that the suggestions received
from these gentlemen are of the greatest weight—not
only as coming from men in their position, but also in
respect of their own intrinsic importance, as well as that
they are entirely free and wholly apart from all party
feeling, and offered entirely with the object of facilitat-
ing the passing of this Bill in the most acceptable shape.
—(Hear.) I might say that my sole object in intro-
ducing this Bill is to give to the inhabitants of New
Zealand the best and most acceptable form of govern-
ment consistent with Imperial considerations which it is
my duty to remember.—(Bear, hear.), The sugges-
tions which I have received have been principallyh. upon
two points. I will, therefore, consider. thel
le choice I have
had to make between them, and particularly eisertlL bees t "et
provincial dis-
tricts of much difficulty—nemel„
of providing government for the 'what
Zealand. I have had to
of this colony of 'New
choose between three alternatibves—ennameeetliyo,n
tthhaet,Bill
which I introduced; secondly,.s
eiawegdgt the vieg
precedent
.
in-
stead of taking the Bill as ittotofdeol
provin-
cial legislatures, I should rather
the. Act of 1842, and give dis-
n
tinct case of Australia, in
and, thirdly, the suggestions I
the Hon. tinct municipalities;
re-
ceived, and to which the
_amendments of
apply that, Ba-
ronet opposite (Sir W.
the Bill a provision f
.7a.iiMtieosies- Iwo,srhtho)uldap.
Ploeravperoivtintcial
in-
stead of putting
legislatures or
eteoiepirPeoevuidlde.forNthoows,e
sdiirs,triictsthiin
think the
central legislaturem
manner as best they
out—namely, pro.
House will perceive that between
pointed theeo as it stands
and the second cours.e.
arfteetrberth
one
the precedent of
of name
viding the municipalities after
As I have drawn this
1842, the distinction,.bear.)
than of fect.--e
intention
tsmyshould be
Bill, and as I stateildetett,threevtiimrteeinli_ drde..ivrstritie,
;provincial
The main difference
has been
bythat
mauhnesieei
governed I have drawn the Bill the local
bodies are to
is this, that a
legislatee local on all matters connected with
interests, and will only be restricted from legislating on
matters
of a colonial orimperial character. Now, the
i
differences this—whether they shall legislate on all
ed ly been
prefera b
tlehetoßiguivaes to
matters, or only on certain specified ones? Sir, with the
fullest consideration
havewlhuicnhdolubt
this Bill, I must say
now stands. Looking to the nature of the restrictions,
I must say that these bodies cannot be regarded as colo-
nial legislatures.
Totheother course recommended by
the Hon. Baronet (Sir W. m olesworth), namely, that
.the central legislature should control all the localities, I
must say there are very grave and serious objections.
One of them is the obvious loss of time, to say noting of
the monopoly exercised, almost invariably, in all such
cases, by the superior or controlling legislature. I be-
lieve, taking precedent and experience into consideration,
yon will find that colonial legislatures have not shown
themselves disposed to part with powers once entrusted
to them, even though their doing so would be for the
benefit of the minor districts. I might, if necessary, ad-
duce the case of Australia; and Mr. Gibbon Wakefield,
one of the gentlemen from whom I presented a petition
this evening, correctly observed that, " in all these cases
prevention is far better than cure."—(llear, hear.) Sir,
I must submit to the House that, if we are disposed to
give to those different localities the powers of inde-
pendent government for their own interest, it is far
better that we should now lay down broadly and firmly
the basis on which this Government is to be formed,
than to leave them to the uncertain result of the view
that the central legislature -may take of the subject.—
(Hear, hear.) I will now, with the permission of the
House, proceed to advert to the fourth plan, if I may so
say, as laid down by the Right Hon. Gentleman the
Member for the University of Oxford (hir, Gladstone).
Sir, that Right Hon. Gentleman expressed a very strong
objection to the course which lat the outset expressed
a determination to take as regarded establishing a su-
preme legislature in this colony. Now, I cannot at all
agree in the view of that Right Hon. Gentleman. I un-
derstand the Right Hon. Gentleman to say that " the
powers of these localities should be independent of the
central legislature." If that plan were to be adopted it
would certainly lead to great confusion. I believe that, in-
stead of simplifying legislation, you would find it diffi-
cult to define the powers as between the Imperial and
the central legislatures, and that you would give ground
for complaint, which we all should be most anxious to
avoid. Sir, I hold it to be essential to the welfare of
this colony that there should be one supreme legisla-
ture.—(Hear, hear.) Having consulted several gentle.
men of great knowledge and experience—gentlemen who
are deeply interested in the welfare of New Zealand, as
the petitions presented by me this evening demonstrate—
I am now in a position to state that all those individuals
who feel an interest in the well-being of New Zealand
unanimously desire that I should proceed with this Bill
aa it at present stands.—(Hear, hear.) But anxious,
on
my own part, to meet the suggestions which have
been
offered to me from different quarters, I submitted to
these gentlemen so interested
in this colony whether, if
I were to retain the Bill as it at present stands, or to
make certain alterations--to which I shall refer—they
would accept the Bdlwlth or without
alterations
alterations?
et
and the answer was that these se
only be approved of but gladly accepted.—(Hear, hear.)
I have determined, therefore, on an important altera-
in the Bill as it stands in regard of localities. Instead
of the superintendents of these colonies being no-
minated by the governors, they shall be elected
in the different colonies by the same constituencies
as the assemblies.—(Hear, hear.) With regard toy
question of elective executives, the Noble Lord (E
Grey) who preceded me in the Colonial Department laid
it down that anything like an elective executive was un-
known to the British constitution. Now looking tit the

_____
---
f wording of this Iftlf, I
must say that these Governments soundest___ principles of eeloniet govtrnre: nt, that in local
' Partake so much of the nature of muaicipalitier, that I miners th-y shaeld meddle as little ea possible with the
do not think I shall be open to a charge of departin : settlers and inhabitants. The petitions from Welling"'
from the spirit of our constitution if I meet the wishes were all in favour of the p'an he recomm...bd,d, although
of those whit desire an elective executive.—(Hear, hear.) the Canterbury settlement was desirous Oat it should be
Following up the same principle, I intend to strike out kept separate from the rest He we's prepared to abide
the salaries of 500/ , and leave it to the option of those by the opinions of the colonists themselves upon this
districts to say whether they will give their superin- point, and believing that his plan woe best calculated to
tendents salaries or not. Sir, I hold these to be ins or- promote the prosperity, as i would wishes of tant alterations in the Bill now before the House.
The the colonists, he would taket meet
the
the liberty of dividing the
next point is one that will lead to more discussion than Committee upon his amendment.
I expected—l mean the clause which I introduced iu Mr. A DDERLEY said that there ware quite as man,'
reference to the rights of the New Zealand Company, precedents in history of local governments or provinces
and which clause had been adverted to by the Right united under one head, as the ptan suggested by the Hon.
Honourable Baronet the Member for Ripon (Sir J. Baronet. He reminded the Hon. Gentleman that Eogt
Graham), as also by the Right Hon. Gentleman the land, which was about the size of gew Zealand, was et
Member for the University of Oxford. In than case one time divided into seven different states under the
I conceive I have taken ground which the House cannot Heptarchy, and in the United States the same principle
except to, and which I feel I would not be justified prevailed. There were many precedents of a provincial
in departing from. The only ground which I have government united under one head. The
proposition of
taken, and less than which I will not bring myself to the Hon. Gentleman differed only in degree from the
accept, is that whatever may be the equitable claims of one before the Committee. Both agreed in proposing
the New Zealand Company in 1847—whatever these that the local functions should be discharged by 100 el
claims may be, lam bound to see secured to them by bodies, whether municipal or not ; and that the central
this measure.—(Hear, hear.) I think it is a paramount Government should attend to such matters as pertained
duty with me to take care that when introducing a Bill to the general government of the whole of the two
the effect of it shall not be to leave the company in a islands. When the Honourable Baronet referred
worse condition than they proviously stood in.—(Hear, to the wishes of . the . colonists themselves, he
hear.) I think the House will admit that, looking at the agreed with him that that was the right appeal to
Act of 1847, I have no right to consider whether the make, but when he said that the colonists took hie
bargain between the Crown and the Now Zealand Com- view of the question, he must beg to say that be
pang was a good or bad bargain.—(Hear, hear.) The thought the Hon. Baronet had read the documents
Act of Parliament has settled that; and the Act itself wrongly. In all cases they had expressed a wish for ma'
has been fully explained by the subsequent correspon- nicipal institutions in each locality; but when he used
dense. I, therefore, take the spirit of tne contract as it the
word municipal, he did not use it in the confined,
stands. The Act of 1847 prescribes that in every town strict sense in which it was used in that country, but in
where land shall be sold the purchase money shall be di- the larger sense in which it was applied in the earlier
vided into three portions—one portion set apart for erni- provinces of North America and the government of
gration purposes, . the second part for purposes of ant- Rhode Island. The Hon. Gentleman then defended the
veyiog, and the third part, or balance, handed over to principle of the Canterbury Association, denying enaPha"
the New Zealand Company.—(Hear,) The Noble Lord tically that it was founded upon any exclusive combine'
(Earl Grey) late at the head of the Colonial Department, lion. They were churchmen, and anxious to carry oat
considered that a fourth was a fair enough portion to be the principles of their church, but there were gresbyte"
handed over to the New Zealand Company. But I shall rian settlements near them, which might, in the same
not be tempted to enter into an investigation as to who- same sense, be considered equally exclusive. They were
ther the Noble Earl was justified in so thinking. I be- of opinion that unanimity and combination of views were
Hove the Noble Earl took a most convenient, a most necessary to success, and that was the principle on which
just, and a moat moderate course•, and looking to the they acted. Anybody might purchase land in the set'
whole transaction—the Aot of 1847 and the construction dement, and it was not necessary that tie should be a
of the several clauses—l ask the House, with some con- churchman. He was ready, with on. B
fidence, if I could do less than decide on the giving of a appeal to the colonists themselves the ,
asH advocatingaronet, t°
the
fourth of the proceeds of the sales of land to the New views embodied in the Bill, rather than those which
be
Zealand Company ?—(Hear, hear.) Ido not wish to do had first put forward.
more than justice, and therefore I appeal to the House Lord J. RUSSELL would be very desirous to see';e
if more than justice is here conceded ?—(Hear, hear.) Bill pass during the present sessions which would give
There is only one more topic to which I shall allude, representative institutions to New Zeeland. Althougu
Every petition which I had the honour to present this there were several points in the Bill with regard £o.
evening adverted in terms of gratitude and approbation to which he might entertain a different opinion to the nil
that part of the Bill which places the lands of the colony Hon. Gentleman the Colonial Secretary, yet in many °
at the disposal of the Legislature.—(Hear hear.) On that the points and objects in view there was a great concur;
subject I hope I may be allowed to say one Word more. In rence of opinion, both on his own part, and he believe"
the present day it is impossible to say in what part of the he might say on the part of the House. Therefore be
colony of New Zealand discoveries of gold may take wished to interfere as little as
possible with the progress_
place. They are expected to take place in New Zee- of the Bill through the House. His opinion was the'
land. Therefore, in addition to placing the land at the there should be one general representative legwer, bat
disposal of the Legislature, in the event of any great and likewise local bodies with more or less of
po
mineral discovery, it is intended by her Majesty's Go- partaking more of the municipal than of the supreme
vernment to entrust the whole power and management legislative character. It appeared to him that the Poll
to the local legislatures.—(Hear, hear.) I hope I shall of the Right Hon. Baronet was one which differed s°
not be considered as having gone beyond my duty when little from that proposed by the Bill, that it was not one
I state that by the mail, which left yesterday, I an- upon which the House ought to be divided, and the 00'
nounced to the colonists that it was the intention of her Gentleman having stated his views, he thought the Go'Majesty's Government to place at the disposal of the vernatent ought to be allowed to carry out their measure:
Legislature of Australia all the revenues that may be . The application of the elective principle, now proposed
derived from these discoveries.—(Hear, hear.) Having, by the Right Hon. Gentleman, makes the measure more
Sir, made these explanations in the hope of saving time, municipal and more conformable to what he oelginalli
and having been met in a spirit of kindness, I hope the explained as his intention.—(Hear, hear.) I think 1
House will consider the desire of these colonists to pos- desirable—for there is no reason toepprehend any eon,
seas these legislative privileges, and that it will merge flict of jurisdiction, which is the only practical evil the!
all minor differences in carrying out the provisions of could arise. And there is even in the municipalities In
the Bill now before us.—(Cheers.) this country a power in the Secretary ef State to dir
Mr. AGLIONBY considered that the amendments in- solve bye-laws made by any corporation; in the sal
Hon. tended to be introduced by the Right H. Baronet (Sir way as there will be a power over the legislation OJ. Pakington) were very great improvements, and as those local bodies in the central legislature,—(Near')t
such he hoped the House would accept them. It would Therefore, upon the whole, I should say that there is
be admittedly wrong to place them in a better position nothing in my views incoesistent with the general scope
than they held before, when their claims came before of the Bill. Perhaps I may here be.allowed, however,
the consideration of that House. It would be monstrous to mention one point on which it appears to me there
to do less—they must do no less in justice, and he had may hereafter arise difficulties, it the Right Hon'
no objection to any tribunal, either legal or judicial, Gentleman do not make an inconsiderable alteration;
which should investigate equitably the legal rights of the I will not dispute as to whether the leg y
ialetior
company. He was compelled to say that there were some council should be by nomination or election.
e, remarks which had been made on the second reading of course, as I concurred in what was propchteo_,
the Bill, which, in his opinion, ought not to have been by my Noble Friend the late Secretary of the Colonies,
made. He contended that allegations and statements I should prefer the elective system. But this is a Pen%
had been made against the company which were un- on which I would not vote against the Governrneh..
founded. The Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark There is a proposal in. the Bill that there shall be a
..'!.
Ji-
had stated that the principal cause of the failure of the mita:ion of the number of members of councils to
there
compiny was owing to the great mismanagement of its Now, as they are to be appointed-for life, I think
u._
affairs. He said they had chiefly failed in consequence is considerable danger of their erecting themselves into
of great mismanagement. it separate body and thwarting the representative body
Sir W. MOLESWORTH.--No doubt of it. or the governor.—(Hear.) I thick that if you hele„,
Mr. AGLIONBY begged leave totally to deny that; body appointed for life, the governor should haye la;
and of all others the Hon. Baronet ought not to be the power of making them from time to time act
man to make such a charge, because considering the po- cordance with the general views of the governorlaotrgl:
sition ho had held in connexion with the company its colonists, otherwise you will have a little oligarch; opponents ought to have selected some other Member. setting up their private views against those of the colon's
his
He was one of the earliest in the undertaking, and his at large, and those of the governor.—(HearehearqL'zt
name, doubtless, had some influence with the public. may easily be amended by allowing the Crown
t 0 that
that
tend the number beyond 13. The limitation tu
overu°4
He had been elected a director in 'sag, and oontinucd
an active member till the 14th February, 1843; and number is an unnecessary restriction on the g wet
those were the times when the company fell into great while if the alteration be made he will have the
byt" cu'
portico.—
difficulties. He believed the first part of the Hon. Mem- of confining the number to 15, except in
ber'a allegations referred to circumstances over which cumstances.
the company had no control. and more from the opposie Mr. E. DENISON said the point seemed who'
tion they experienced in Parliament. He, as being one ther the chief stress should be laid on the formation of a.
of the directors, therefore, had no right to accuse them general legislature,' or whether the power should be. dlife.
of mismanagement, although in 1843 he had left them to fused through several subordinate bodies—the local eh
struggle with their difficulties. The late lamented Mr. gislutures. He had heard with satisfaction the epee .
Somes, the Member for Dartmouth, continued at the of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the
head of the affairs of the company till his death, and lonics.(Hear,) But he differed
many others of the distinguished gentlemen who had Gentleman on this point, althoughto be
with the Right HT;
taken an active part in the direction still adhered to alterations he roosed wore imhroeve
it.. In 1847 Parliament introduced some alterations, -The -
preponderance of argument appeared. in favour of
but he was not aware that between the two . a • g . cling
it
with
as
much
acknowledgedruents..He
it,
r.
had periods he the central leslature, and of encircling
named there had been any mismanagement. Is as possible of power and dignity,
proof of that he would refer to a letter of Lord Grey, tial parties to become members of it, and thus enabling
so as to induce influen-
dated July, 1850, three years afterwards, in which his it to control the local, jurisdictions. But, after the speed'
Lordship stated that he had an unchanged sense of the of the Noble Lord, and desirous as all parties were not
importance of the colonising adventures of the cons-* to obstruct the Bill, it would be inexpedient to press the
parry, and the great value of their results, and that no- point—(Hear)—and if the effect of the alterations now. thing had occurred in any degree to affect the satis- proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman would be that
faction he had felt at the progress they had made. Now the central legislature would have power to influence the
that was the opinion of the Colonial Secretary who local legislatures, the matter in dispute would be much must have considered the question fully, and investi- narrowed.—(Hear.)
gated the conduct of the company. The Right Hon. Mr. MO WATT said he was satisfied the measure had
Baronet, the Member for the University of Oxford had only been brought in from a sincere desire to benefit the
made some remarks upon the same subject, and had pleasuretb the
British in
Parliament saying so. But
mixed up the New -Zealand with some other com• coley
—(Hear)
—and
to
panics of which he had apparently a great legislate properly for the colonies. The colonists did
horror. At least the Right Hon. Gentleman objected, not desire a complicated measure of Imperial legislation..
'he believed, to merely colonising companies. He come but that powers of self-government should be given them,
plained of the secrecy of the New Zealand Company, and then that they should be simply let alone. He was
that they were an irresponsible body, and that their in favour of the central legislation being made aupreme,
affairs were conducted with secrecy. Why the very con- but he did not think the matter of such great importance,
trary was the fact; the safety of the New Zealand Com- as he was satisfied the colonists would ultimately obtain
Hany h
Gentleman tad been Pub
heliM ecity
mber fo r and dißiscussion on, with that clge, The Ri
ar ht good government. The only parties who appeared to
good sense that characterised him,had
understand the colonials' wants, were the writers in
on. p
hit the right the press. For instance, there had been published
recently an article in the Times which` if submitted to
nail upon the head in the remarks he
obis made, and he
on behalf of the company would agai peat that all the vote in all the colonies, would have been carried bY
they demanded was justice.
acclamation. J. PAKINGTON implored the House to reserve :
Sir W. MOLESWORTH would be happy to agree colonists
position.—(Hear, hear.) The Bill had been introduce
the discussion until the Bill was in Committee.—(Hear.) Sir J. PAKINGTON was persuaded that the
sts would deprecate being left in their present';
:
with the suggestion of the Right Hon. Baronet, but he
only for their benefit; and it was because he believed
had been attacked. He would be prepared in his place
their opinion to be against the proposition of the Hl'
to prove his position—that the New Zealand Company
accede
obtained their Act in 1847 by misrepresentation, Baronet (Sir W. Molesworth), he must decline to aces and by a concealment of the truth. He would either go to it.
Mr. MO WATT quite ' agreed that legislation sole
on now, or when the House went into Committee.
Mr. MANGLES said, whenever the Hon. Baronet necessary. Sir W. MOLE
was withdrew his amendMent'
brought forward his charges, he should be fully pre-
asThhee fcellatutsheatwhase twhaesniangsremedintoo,riatsy'were the 15 clauses
pared, on the part of the company, to meet them,
following, up to clause 17 inclusive.
Oa clause 18, which provides that the superintendent
The House then went into Committee on the Bill,
Clause 1 was then agreed to.
and provincial legislatures ma
e.
On clause 2 being read, • ,
Sir W. MOLES WORTH moved the omission of the
complained that the . Ae..
Sir W. MOLE'' maY
ma
e laws'
powers
second clause and all subsequent ones before the 32d
fined,to be
andvest vested
moved
clause, and in their stead to insert: —"lt shall be lawful
edan amendment in the clause, by w 0
id the provincial legislatures were not "
Moo
for the General Assembly by Act or Acts to incorporate they would be.. If the Bill passed in its present
_h.
shape
the kcal councils would become so many petty reP"'
the inhabitants of any district within the said colony,
lics instead of municipalities.
and to establish in such a district a council for the local
government thereof: such council shall have power to '
Mr. GLADSTONE considered that in this clause.thae
make orders and bye-laws for providing for any matters
which shall be specially subjected to the direction and principle adopted in our old municipal institutions
andel.
control of the said council by any law of the said General been fairly followed; for it gave general, and not l!t
Assembly." If a majority of the House was desirous of cific, powers, hut reserved a vote to the central ~g
govern-
passing a Bill for the better government of New Zealand, merit. Moreover, the present Bill gave an overriding he hoped the minority would not offer anything like a jurisdiction to the central legislature of the
colony'
mild
factious opposition. ''here were in the debate on the The intelligent will of the colonial community W.
too
second reading evident indications of a difference of opi•
nion as to the conatitution that ought to be granted to ultimately determine the form of government, and if the
local principle was in 'avow it must prevail; but under_att
the colony—whether New Zealand should be formed into ono political district or divided into six political the Bid the central legislature would at resent
local
units or provinces, each having a separate and inde- council.
the power of applying a check to the powers of the
pendent Legislature, to be combined under one centrallegis'
head, like the United States of America. That system which to proceed was, to allow theal
locee'll.t bodies toe
eo,
had been found perfect in theory, and had already Sir J. PAKINGTON thought thel solund principle on
lasted seventy years in America, as was done in our municipalur sevteorrms ofi leosv'e;re.ms rr;n4lll6°
extremely well. If, instead working, on the whole,
of provinces having a late in the interest of their
es of general importance;g end
veto with respect to
population of from 1,500 to 8.000, they had in New Zsa-
• that
land provinces with from 160,000 to 1 000 000 inhab' 1-supportedthe
Mr. AGLIONBY.
on this principle the clause had been framed.
were to become it was sthese provincial councils.
independent of the mother country, then it would in all gullance ° words from Mr. Mow and Mr. AP.
probability be the best constitution. He, however, ob-
jected to such a plan for these reasons—first, because it After a
Yjamendment was withdrawn, and the clause
appeared to him
that New Zealand had been formed by was agreed to.
19, enu t • of the
On clause which • merates certain powers
nature to consist co. one political unit. He objected to it .
1 , lative council to appropriate the land fund arising
also became the colony being from its nature distinct legislative f land,
from the sale o
wEnany, thefe
from '
all other parts of the world, had therefore no natural
Mr. F. PEEL moved the omissionof certain words,
enemies unless they were formed within its own bosom
purpose
ofof
thetrans_ferring
.to. the local councils the
, appropriation
by having the colony cut up into
.various distinct and se- for the
land within the limits of their ' • provinces,
parate provinces.and states. He objected to it fudrthtweru,
respective p
because it established six different legislatures, and
from
and in
the
same manner togive them the
of that control of the sale and letting of tee waste Crown
one poli- lands. lie considered that whilst the distinct sets of laws. He thought he might asistuy
the tenor of the discussion that thef inrinejiourg
House was in favour of New
ofZealand dmuony
0, the most ;was fully , --.. Competent to deal with the customs and revenue
tical union; that was the opinion _
and the other House of 1 and other matters affecting the entire cornmunitY,
distinguished Members of this
Chet the majority of the i it was not so well able to deal with the land fund, with
Parliament. He would assume
Z?sland being formed 1 the
precise amountof which the various localities roust
Committee was in favour of New
but iu favour &so ; •
general legislature
, necessarily be better aequ onted. e net provinces, having i see an - • i din the colony for fixing a
into distinct
euteority estab ishe
of its being formed
withg whom should it to divided sent '
1 elf- gevernmeut Then luniform • which lands were to be let, for at pre'
local s
into one political unit
.or colenye
price at
subordinate districts
the colonists comp aine
the
the question arose
province_?l' By whom should the be i beingC * bury and Otago bad already t
, made. enter
into districts or _y
By the General Ass h ' un-
' the terms of the purchase of land
elegies be determined?
rather than by the I • ea, ly of ! right of determining t
he could see no justice in with-
Wales capered Paella- in those provinces, and l - d of arbitrary alterations
New South
h' h •
said that t ein abitunts of New South holdingthe same
ment. It was
ON said that the subject of tune 1
to such a division; but
Wales objected the argument Sir J. PA KINGT
rather th, .
sale of land in the colony had
privileges from the other localities.
told in his favour ar) agatest it. It was opposed I lion with regard to the
because that theand it brad by en thought
consideration, 21 e
by them
only
proposed by the Ins erial P districts councils were i undergone much
proposed by
different localities,
themselves. Another reason why it should be left to Ito distribute it ever she. :
Baronet,
P arliament, instead of by I better to confide the power to one central land board than
the General Assembly or
before
New aeuth Wales was, that it I Mr. AGLIONBY
•e
agreed with the Right Hon. ,
was a matter of hardly any
country what was the form or what was the limit of the uniformity of price could be secured in our N
importance to the mother but was ot opinion that many years !Nould elapsewpzealand
districts, while to the settlers it was of the:greatest ins- colonies.,
portance what were the limits of the districts, and what After a few wordsMr.S.
the powers of the district councils. It was one of the AN reach the gallery,
1 from

,