The Sun.
London, England, 1864-03-18 00:00:00

SOUTH WALES.

Mr. W. MILLER, asked the Under Secretary of State for
the Colonies if advice had been received at the Colonial
Offica of the Legislative Assembly of New South Wales
having followed the example of Canada, in imposing a
heavy duty on British as well as foreign manufactured,
goods; and, if so, if that had been done with a view of
protecting their own manufacturers, or for the purpose of
raising revenue bymeans of indirect taxation; and it he was
aware of its being the intention of other communities in
Australia to follow the same course in regard to their fiscal
laws through their respective legislative bodies elected on
the principle of manhood suffrage.

Mr. C. FORTESCUE said tho.t the Government of New
South -Wales had expended £900,000 in public works out of
an ordinary revenue of £1,500,000, and in order to meet the
deficiency caused had imposed an ad valorem duty on dif-
ferent articles, not for restriction purposes, bnt for revenue.

SITE OF TIIE PATENT OFFICE.
Lord A. CHURCHILL asked the First Commissioner
of Vy'orks whether,taking into consideration the great incon-
veniences of the present Patent Office, it was the intention
of her Majesty's Government, in accordance with the re-
commendation of the Pa`ent Commissioners, to afford
facilities for erecting suitable Patent Offices, including
library and museums, &a., upon the site of Fife House,
Wzitehall, it appearing that the Crown lease of this pro-
perty had recently expired, and that the Commissioners of
Patents have ample tunas at their disposal" forblilding
purposes.

-
N.r. COWPER said that the silo alluded to was not at
present available, and no site had yet been decided upon.

THE TUSCALOOSA

Mr. FEACOCKE asked the First Lord of the Treasury
whetiacr he would lay upon the table of the house the
opinion of the law officers of the Crown upon the subject
of the Tuscilooss, which was forwarded to the Admiral at
the Cape of Good Hope ?
Lord PALMERSTON said there were professional as
well as political reasons why the opinion referred to, which
was for the guidance of Government, should not be laid on
the table.

LUNATIC ASYLUMS (IRELAND).
Colonel
GREVILLE asked the Chief Secretary for Ire-
land if he had received the resolutions passed by the grand
juries of the diff,e
r nt counties affected by the changes pro-
posed in the districtlimatie asylums; and if so, whether it
was the intention of the Government to persevere in the
contemplated changes?
Sir R. PEEL, said that '
charges
alluded
to,
but
he ne was not aware of any of the
would he happy to confer with
the hon. member on the at
SUB-INSPECTORS et.
F FACTORIES.
Col. EDWARDS asked the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, with reference totheaftateracnts made
by him on the subject of the memorial e
of factories, and the recent increasesub inspectors•
oftheir sa-
laries sanctioned by the Treasury, whether
intended to convey to the house that the it was
sub-
inspectors' salaries had been raised to £7OO per
annumafter certain years of service ;•and, if not, whether he would
state the exact nature and extent of the change sanctioned
by the Treasury ?
Sir G. GREY said that he had not made any scale such
as that alluded to, but it was proposed that the salaries
should be raised gradually to £5OO a year.
THE DANO-GERMAN CONFERENCE,
In rsply to 14)rd It. MoNTAGu,
Lord PALMERSTON said that he had already
stated that Prussia, Austria, and other European powers
had agreed to the contemner?, and they had reason to
believe that Denmark wouid also consent. He hoped
that a corit'srence, when the question at isiue would be dis-
cussed, would lead to an armistice. (Hear, hear.)
TEE PLOT FOR ASEASSINATING THE EMPEROR
OF THE FIZ.ENCII.
Sir H. STACEY asked the First Lard of the Trea..
awry to, allow the motion which was ca the paper
to have precedence of the orders of the day..
Lord PALMERSTON, who did not at first reply to the
question, said he had no command over the orders of the
day.

Mr. DISRAELI vras :,urpriiel to h3ar the noble lord
state that he hai no command over thg bu3in3ss of the
home on n. Government night.
Lord PALMEaSTON repeated his statement, but nrlded
that

ac La W 33 ready to give the motion precoleneo of the Pena.
Servitude Act Amendment Bill, which was en too paper.
TEE GOVEBNAIENY ANNUITIES BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER entered
into an GE!../ bonito statement of figure s and facts to prove
that he '.71:4 quire correct in waat he asserted relative to the

lent S,ci

y, and th© only mistake ha corn

=Wed w;4.12 mi•rey of a techaical character, awl ca: siate~

Mr. GOSCHEN approved of the bill, which he said
would not interfere with the libarty of the working classes,
who might accept it or not, just as it might please them.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
could not on any account consent to have the bill referred
to a select committee, who would consider the whole ques-
tion of friendly societies, but he had no objection to see it
referred to a committee to consider the clauses in the usual
way.

Lord STANLEY approved of the compromise offered by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer:
The debate was then adjourned.

MR. STANSFELD AND SIGNOR MAZZINI.
Sir IL STRACEY moved "That the statement of the
Procureur- General on the trial of Greco, implicating a
member of this house and of her Majesty's Government in
the plot for the assassination of our ally the Emperor of the
French, deserved the serious consideration of this house."
The hon. baronet said that, in bringing the motion under '
the notice of the house, he was not actuated by any animus
against the hon. member for Halifax, and he only did so as
an individual member, and because he felt that the dignity
of the house had been assailed, and that the Government
nad not given the information which was due to the coun-
try upon so serious a question. Bat, to his surprise, on
looking along the Treasury Bench, he did not see that
member of the Administration who was chiefly concerned
in this question. It was far from his disposition t) take any
one by surprise, but it was singular that the Government
had not sent to the hon. member, and that he was not pre-
sent. [Kr. Stansfeld at this moment entered the house,
and was cheered by the Ministerial side ; the hon. member
took his seat on the Treasury hench next to Lord Pal-
merston 1 The hon. baronet then traced the history of
the matter ; observing that on the first occasion when
the hon. member for Finsbury (Mr. Cox) called attention
to the extract from tho speech of the Procureur-General,
the hon. gentleman entered into a considerable eulogy and
panegyric on M. Mezzini, which was certainly uncalled for.
The hon. gentleman on that occasion also said he felt
astonishment, mingled with indignation, that his name
should have been mentioned in the way it had been; and
declared his cenv:ction that M. Mazzini was incapable of
assassination. The hon. baronet then read several passages
from the published writings of M. Mezzini, to show that if
he was incapable of assassination he was not incapable of
instigating to assassination. The hon. baronet next ad-
verted to the statement in the Mlles respecting the note of
an Italian revolutionary bank of maich James Stansfeld, of
2, Sidney-place, B:ompton, was the London agent. They
ought to be told whether the member for Halifax had ever
been connected with that No. 2, Sidney-place. The house
had never had a straightforward answer to the charges
made against the hon. member ; it had never been inquired
whether Mr. Flowers and M. Mazzini were identical, and
who was M. Fiori. It was not by a manifestation of indig-
nation that the members of that house were to be satisfied.
(Hear hear.) Had the hon. member expressed his regrets,
instead of displaying a confident and irritable manner, and
swaggering tone--(hear, hear)—the house would have been
much more conciliated. It was due to the dignity of the
Government of this country either to have demanded that
the fullest information respecting the charges of the Pro-
cureur General, or at once openly to have repudiated them.
Tice conduct of the Government in the matter would be re-
garded as un-English, and it would add to the ignoble
humiliation under which the country was suffering. (Op•
position cheers.) In conclusion, the hon. baronet expressed
his regret that he had been compelled to bring forward a
motion which he felt might have the effect, at al events for
a time, of imperilling the career of advancement on which
the hon. member has entered. (Cheers.)

Lord C. HAMILTON seconded the amendment.

Mr. STANSFELD, who, on rising, was received with
cheers from the Ministerial benches, said—lt is not my in-
teatime to say one word in reply to the criticism of the hon.
baronet upon the character of Mazeini. I have already ful-
filled that which I believed my duty in bearing testimony
in regard to a man whom 1 have known for many years. So
far, therefore, as I am concerned it is fitting ghat that discus.
sion should not be continued, and as far as I am concerned
it is now at an end. I address myself to the motion of the
hon. baronet, which appertains to me and my character.
The very terms of that motion appear to me to justify the
course which I pursued on the first night that the subject
was introduced to the notice of the house. The hon. baronet,
taking up the statement of theProcureur-General, moves—
(The hon. gentleman read the terms of the motion.) Now,
I put the same interpretation, right or wrong, upon the re •
marks of the Procureur-General which has been put by the
hon. baronet. I hold in my hand a copy of the limes of
March 1, and I there find the statement of the Procureur-
General given in these words. (The hon. member having
read the extract from the speech of the Procureur- General,
which has been so frequently before the public, continued :)
I must say it appeared to me that an imputation so odious,
so utterly unsupported by evidence, was one which could
only be met by a general denial ; but which, although
general, 1 believe has been complete; and which, if accom-
panied by some expression of contempt and indignation, was
yet no more so than what the House of Commons will have
thought natural. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, what is the evi•
dance of this crime. The hon. baronet has not read the evi-
dence, but he has supposed it was to the effect that Greco was
directed to apply to some person at my address for money for
eleepurpose of this plot. Why, sir, even sUppbaingllieletter
found in Graca's possession was the production of Mazziai,
that letter did not refer him to my address, tut to another
address for money. Upon him was stated to have been found
a slip of paper, on which was written, it does not appear in
whose writing," Mr Flower, 57,2 hurloe - square." [An HON.
MEMEER—" M. Flower."] That was the whole of the evi-
dence. The hon. baronet then refers to the '37 plot, and
hints that I had been constituted by Mazzini treasurer to
that plot. What is his evidence on that? There were two
supposed extracts in letters from Mazzini referring all per-
sons in vague terms to my address for money if they re •
quired it. That was the whole extent of the evidence as far
as the Tibeldi plot was concerned. Now, I am willing to
admit, with that evidence, he or any gentleman would have

lien justified in asking fer explanation in a case of that
iffnd ; but I cannot conceive how any man, con:idering the
evidence, could have been led to the conclusion which the
Procureur-General was induced to express in this case.
HON. MEMEER-1 deny that.] (Cries of " Order.")
I was about to say that I did not think I should give any
other but a general denial to any statement. of that kind, but
the circumstances of the case are now entirely changed. The
whole subject is in the possession of the house, on the mo-
tion of the right hon. baronet. I have therefore no hesita-

lion or difficulty, and I do not consider there is any indig-
nity, in offering any emplanation to the house which the
house may think requisite, or answering any question
which the house may think desirable. Let me take the
statement of the Procureur. He states I was a person
placed in correspondence with Greco. Now, neither by
letter nor personally, neither directly nor indirectly, had 1
ever communication with that person, nor did I know of his
existence, nor, until I saw the report in the paper, even his
name. (Cries of " Oh, oh," " Question," and loud cheers.)
Now, let us go back to the case of Tibaldi. M. Mazzini has
already voluntarily written to the press to state that there
was no such fund or such plot, and of course he has never
asked me to become the treasurer of it. It is hardly neces-
say for me to say that which I now say very distinctly, that
I never held the funds or advanced any money for any such
purpose, or for any purpose whatever, to persons who
ware engaged in connection with that conspiracy. It is
one thing to have had a long personal intimacy with a
man, and another thing to be supposed to be implicated
in hia undertakings—(derisive cheers from the Opposition)
—whether of a character which will bear investigation, or
of a character attributed to me. The hon. member has re-
ferred to the trial of Orsini, and hag said my name was im-
alicated in that trial. I do not know how to reply to that
assertion, because this i 3 the first time I have heard my name
connected Stith it. (Oh, eh, from the Opposition, followed
by cheers from the Ministerial benches.) If the hon.
}rtrenet will adduce any rividence, cr make any etateineat, I
am ready to answer it. (Cheers.) The bon. baronet has
referred to the loan notes. In ISO, immediately atter the
fall of the Roman republic, I was requested to allow my
name to be placed upon the back of these notes, as a refer-
ence to persons who might apply to take them, their obj ct
being to aid in the objects of Italian unity and independence.
Now, I am quite ready to admit I consented that my name
should be so used; but in a few weeks I saw reason to
consider the propriety, and even legality of that step, and
thought I was justified in taking counsel, and asking the
opinion of an old friend of mine, an eminent member of the
legal profession (Mr. Sergeant Manning,) Taking hie
advice, I requested that, my name should be withdrawn lin-

mediately from those documents. (Cheers.) I have no-
thing further to state to-night. These are the simple facts
as far as I know them, as far as I tun interested in this
matter. If there is any other question occurring to the
mind of any hon. member, I am perfectly ready to answer.
I have no hesitation in answering any question that is
asked. (Cries of No, no, from the Opposition.) The hon,
gentleman here appeared to be about to resume his seat,
but, as if recollecting an omission, he resumed; I have
omitted one important part, the question of the use to
which my house has been turned, as a natural consequence
of intimate personal relationship, to which I never for a
moment hesitated to acknowledge. M. Mazzini's • letters,
the house will understand, have not been able to reach
him for many years, if addressed in his own name. He
has therefore asked his various English friends, of whom
lam one—(loud cheers from the Opposition, followed by
counter cheers from the Ministerial benches)—to allow
letters to be addressed to their houses. Letters for him
have been addressed in that way to him, and among others
letters have been addressed to him under the name that has
been mentioned here. (Loud cheers from the Opposition.)
They have been addressed to my house under the name,
amongst others, of " Signor Fiori." (Cheers.) I need not
say that the name " Flower," as the house will easily nu-
de, stand, is a translation of the Italian name " Fiori"—
(derisive cheers)—but I have made inquiries, and I do not
believe any letter for Mazzini has been addressed to my
house in the name of Flower. (Derisive cheers.) I en-
tirely admit at the same time that it is not advisable, and
it is not fitting, whatever may be the contents of Mazzini's
correspondence, that his letters should be addressed to the
residence of the person occupying the position I now oc-
cupy. (Hear, hear,) But it has not been necessary for
me to make any representation on this subject to Mazzini.
He has volunteered to me a statement that he has
taken measures to prevent his correspondence being ad-
dressed to my address. (Loud cheers from the Opposition.)
I have contented myself with stating facts. I say Ido not
think any one can dispute the truth of what I say. I have
no knowledge of these transactions to which the hon. mem-
ber referred, and I now leave this question without further
remark. (Cries of " Ohl oh 1" and cheers.)
Lord H. VANE had heard with great regret the expla-
nation brought forward by the hon. gentleman. He ad-
mitted that explanation was much more satisfactory than
the one he afforded the other night—if that could be called
an explanation—(Cries of " No, no," from the Opposition)
—which was simply a defence of M. Mazzini. The house
had nothing to do with the character of Mazzini. They
had certainly had no right to defend it ; they had
no right to go against the whole moral sense of Europe.
(Cheers,) It was a mistake to suppose that this sense
of the principles of M. Mazzini was confined to
the Imperialist party in France. He could say,
from personal knowledge, that none upheld his principles
except it were the remnant of the party of '93; for even the
republicans, the former supporters of General Cavaignac,
revolted against the principles of Mazzini, and repudiated
the idea of asoociation with a man so held in abhorrence
throughout Europe. (Cheers.) No ane had suspected that
the hon. member was himself guilty of participation in
such a horrible plot ; but no one could deny that the hon.
gentleman had been guilty of great imprudence, according
to his own admission that night, in allowing letters to be
addressed to his own house for Mazzini, when he could not
be c gnisant of the nature of that correspondence. He
thought the French people, the French Chamber, and the
French public had a right to complain of such conduct on
the part of a member of this house, who had now been
drawn into the admission that he had dropped all connec-
tion with Mazzini. (Cries of No, no.) The house had
nothing to do with personal friendship, but had a right
that such friendship should not compromise that house,
should not compromise the Government with which the
hon, member was connected, and should not compromise
the people of England. (Cheers.)
Lord H, LENNOX had shared in the indignation and
astonishment at the speech of the Procurenr-General ; but
the statement of the hon. member astonished him when he
said that he heard for the first time that night that his
name was implicated with Mazzini. STANSFELD—
I said Orsini.] The noble lord proceeded to say that the
name of the hon. member for Halifax appeared in the acte
d'accusation on the trial of Tibaldi in 1857, and was fol-
lowed by Mr. P. A. Taylor. who avowed a long and inti-
mate friendship with Signor Mazzini, and stated that his
house had for years been placed at the disposal of Signor
Mazzini for the reception of his Continental correspondence.

Sir J. PAKINGTON next rose, and, after expressing
his opinion that the explanation offered to the house by
the hon. member was not satisfactory, asked the noble
lord at the head of the Government whether any expla-
nation had been offered by her Majesty's Government to
the Government of France with respect of the speech of the
Procureur-ueneral.

Lord PALMERSTON then rose amid loud cheers, and
said—Nothing undoubtedly can be, generally, more pain-
ful than personal discussions in this house. At the same
time, I cannot express any regret that the hon. baronet has
brought this subject forward, because it has drawn from my
hon. friend a declaration which, differing from the right
hon. baronet (Sir J. Pakington), I think perfectly satisfac-
tory—(cheers, and cries of " Oh")—because it gives a denial,
an absolute and total denial, to the only charge which has
been insinuated against him, viz., having any cognisance
whatever of the plot. The right hon. baronet asks me
whether her Majesty's Government has deemed it right to
make any communication to the Government of France on
a passage in the speech of an advocate in a court of justice
in France ? Why, sir, no. (Loud cheers.) We have no
right to take cogaisance of what takes place in a court of
justice in France with regard to matters which are brought
before them. If there was an opinion that anything which
passed upon that occasion amounted to a charge against my
hon. friend that he had any connection, direct or indirect,
with that transaction, tho answer to that imputation and
insinuation was given to the world by my hon. friend in this
house, and that was a sufficient refutation. (No, no, from
the Opposition.) But I will freely own that I should have
felt humiliated if I had had to be a party to a communica-
tion to the French Government, telling them that an Eng-
lish gentleman—a member of Parliament, holding an office
under Governmen'—was not connected with an infamous
plot. (Hear.) I congratulate the hon. gentlemen opposite
on the feelings and sentiments which seem to actuate them
on the present occasion. (Cheers and counter cheers.) We
have been told that the imputations, false as they were, of
the Procureur-General have excited the indignation of
the French nation, and that something is due to the
feelings of France as an atonement for the suspicion
they entertain that something or other has taken place
in this country which indirectly, if it does not acquiesce
in, at least amounts to a disclaimer from participat ion in the
attempt which has been made. 'We have been reminded of
1858. There was then an attempt actually mF de on the life
of the Emperor of the French, Well, what did the Govern
went do at that time ? 'We spontaneouely proposed to the
house a measure which was intended to prevent the recur-
rence of such attacks. (Loud cheers and counter cheers.)
Hon. gentlemen opposite publicly and formally expressed
their approval of that measure—(renewed cheers)---ebut
wlian they thought that a combination of circumstances and
an absolute abandonment of their own opinions might lead
to a change of Government, they threw over their promises,
cast their indignation to the winds, and objected to that to
which they had formerly declared their adhesion, and re-
fused that satisfaction weich they now seek. (Cheers and
cries of "Question.") Well, sir, I say that the language
which they use on the present occasion against a member of
the Government needs no explanation beyond his own de-
nial. With regard to my hon. friend, I say that, if I thought
that for a moment that he could have had the slightest par-
ticipation in the transaction to which the discussion of this
evening alludes, I should have represented to him that it
would be more becoming that he should cease to be a mem-
ber of the Government. (Cheers.) But I have not done so,
because I know my hon. friend is incapable of such an
action. (Cheers.) Therefore, sir, I say that Ido not regret
the motion of the hon. baronet, because it has afforded to my
hon. friend an opportunity of repeating the disclaimer which
I think he made sufficiently on a former occasion. lf, how-
ever, that was not deemed satisfactory, the statement he has
made to-night ought to be a conclusive reason why the
motion of the hon. baronet should not be acceded to. (Loud
cheers.)
Mr. DISRAELI confessed that he was disappointed at
the tone which had been taken by the noble lord, who had
had a golden opportunity of extricatiag the house from
a very painful position. The noble lord, however, had
taken refuge in that vein to which he was too accustomed.
He thought it unfortunate that the noble lord, imme••
diately after saying that he would submit to no act of
humiliation, called attention to the circumstances of 1853.
As to the President of the Board of Trade, surely some re•
gard might have been had to the feelings of an abient man.
The noble lord ought to have been ashamed of attacking by
inuendo a man so distinguished. (Oppcsition cheers.) The
noble lord's remarks proved that he did not understand the
very point upon which the decision of the house was asked,
Let us see what occurred. The Procureur-General—the
Attorney-General of a great country—publicly stated, in a
court of the highest consideration in France, to the effect
that a member of Parliament had been the medium by
which Mazzini communicated with the conspirators against
the life of the Emperor. Did the hon. member for Ililifax
deny the statement ? Why, he edmitted it. (Loud Oppo•
ition cheers.) He did not deny tint these letters did come,
and that his house in Thurloe-square was the medium of
communication between Mazzini and his corr. spondente.
Mr. ST A NSFELD--What correspondents ?
Mr. DISRAELI—What correspondents? You know
them better than I do. (Cheers froze the Opposition.)
What correspondents? Why, the assassins of Europe.
(Renewed cheers.) The right hon. gentleman proceeded to
say that it was the universal feeling throughout the coup-
try that the dignity of the house had been compromised,
and he was sorry to add that, after the expressions used by
the noble lord, the Government had been compromised also.
His hon. friend had, in no spirit of unfriendliness to the
noble lord—(laughter)—,given him an opportunity of com-
ing forward and asserting that he would take those steps
rhich a person in his exalted position could easily do to re-
move the extreme apprehension and the great and growing
disquietude which this affair has occasioned. The noble
lord had only to ea) that after the statement of the
hon member for Halifax he felt he should feel it his
duty to One himself in communication, by which at
Nest regret might, be expressed, that even unconsciously