The Sun.
London, England, 1852-01-09 00:00:00

THE ENGINEERS' DISPUTE.

PROPOSED METHOD OF ARBITRATION.
1111,1 e• following communication from Lord Ingestrie,
relative to a settlement of the points in dispute between
the operative engineers and their employers, was yester-
day received by Mr. Allan, secretary to the Amalga-
mated Society:—
" Regent's-park Barrack, Jan. 8, 1852.
" was applied to on the' 6th of January by
some gentlemen to endeavour, as far as was in my power,
to arrange the differences a opinia between the masters
and the operatives.
" The parties :applying 'to me (believing that the
masters would not consent to arbitration) were anxious
that I should be one of the trustees of a fund to enable
the workmen to set up for themselves. My reply was
this, that I felt the importance of the question, and that
I would do my best to bring matters to a settlement.
I ventured to suggest that the three parties, viz., the
masters, the operatives, and the unbiassed party, the
aristocracy and gentry, should each delegate four people
to form a jury; that one of the judges of the land should
be invited to preside; and that an eminent lawyer, pro-
perly selected by the jury, should examine the witnesses
of both parties. The verdict to be final,. Full liberty
for the press, and access to the public, as in a court of
justice.
" This, perhaps, might show the necessity of a per-
manent board to settle future disputes, but time alone
would prove this.
"I would suggest that, as a preliminary measure,
twenty gentlemen, ten nominated by masters, and ten by
the operatives, should nominate one nobleman or gentle-
man, one master, and one operative, to form a committee
to decide upon what sort of a tribunal should be fixed
upon, as to mode of examining witnesses, length of time
of trial—in fact, all preliminary measures; and, perhaps,
that they should nominate the jury.
" I would say that I decline to be a trustee for a fund
to enable workmen to set up for themselves, feeling that
this matter must, of necessity, owing to the good sense
and honesty of Englishmen, be settled by fair arbitra-
tion. If either party should decline to settle this ques-
tion by this means, I think of necessity the other two
would unite to quench monopoly. I have been induced
to write this letter as I have been told that I have the
credit of wishing to be fair in matters brought before my
notice. I can honestly say, I have no bias for either
party; but, for the sake of peace, wish to see what is
right predominate. Furthermore, I fell it my duty, as
well of those of the upper classes, to, interfere in this
matter.

" I have forwarded a copy of this letter to the se-
cretary of the Masters' Association as well as to yourself;
and pray make what use of it you like. My apology
for troubling you must be my wish to assist both parties.
" I have the honour to remain your obedient servant,
"INOESTRE, Sub.-Lieut. Ist Life Guards.
" Mr. Allan, 25, Little Alieestreet, Whitechapel."
This letter was submitted to the consideration of the
council last night, but no definite conclusion was arrived
at upon the subject to which it referred.
The other business of the evening was confined to re-
ceiving the reports of deputations..
It was stated that efforts were being made by a
number of men belonging to the establishment of Messrs.
Easton and Amos, Borough, to raise capital and engage
premises, so as to start in business for their own employ-
ment, in the course of next week. Also that the men
belonging to another shop on the Surrey side of the
water, about forty is number, have subscribed 51. each,
and taken premises for a similar purpose, having already
obtained orders to a considerable amount—one being
for the construction of a 16-horse power steam-engine.
Some misconception, it was stated, is abroad as to the
number of hands likely to be actually thrown out of
employ by the closing of the establishments noticed to
that effect for Saturday next, and which has been gene-
rally stated as high as 30,000 men, including members
of the Amalgamated Society, about 12,000 men, and
other mechanics and labourers employed in connexion
with them. The mistake appears to have arisen from a
supposition that the whole of the members of the society
would be thrown out; whereas not more than about
5,000 members belong to establishments included in the
employers' determination. Of these, 3,000 are about
equally divided between London and Manchester, 400
at Bolton, 50 at Stockport, 40 at Newton mar Warring-
ton, 90 at Ipswich, 20 at Southampton, and 600 at Old-
ham. The secretary of the Amalgamated Society has
no information of notices to close having been given at
any other places, and it is calculated that the whole
number of hands working in the shops to bo closed
amounts to about 12,000. In the metropolis some large
establishments will remain open; among others, that of
Mr. J. Apsley, Cornwall-road, Lambeth; whilst in Man-
chester, on the contrary, work will be stopped at every
shop in which members of the Amalgamated Society aro
employed. The works of Messrs. Ransome and May, it
is understood, will be only nominally closed, as they will
be re-opened on Monday morning for the admission of
all who may choose to return under the old system. It
has been stated that the metropolitan employers will re-
open at the expiration of a month upon the same terms,
but no public pledge to that effort has yet been given.
The " Moulders," hitherto a distinct society from the
Amalgamated Engineers, seem likely to become an active
party in the dispute, as they have conveyed an intlme-
lion to several employers that, in the event of their
losing work through the realization of the threat to close
the establishments, although they have not hitherto in-
terfered in any way with the matter, they will only re-
turn to their shops upon the same terms as are now de-
manded by the Amalgamated Society.

The Eastern London branch of the Amalgamated So-
ciety of Engineers held a meeting last evening at the
Ph mix Tavern, Ratcliff-cross, for the purpose of taking
ing into consideration the resolutions adopted by the
executive of the Masters' Association on Tuesday last,
and also to consider the propriety of empowering the
executive council of the Amalgamated Society to appro-
priate 10,0001, of the society's fonds to the opening of an
establishment for self•empioyment, without the interven-
tion of the masters. Upwards of 300 members of the
district association were present.
Mr. JOHN EGLIN having been called /
t o
ntahney c
referencea r
briefly explained the objects of the meeting, and then
called upon Mr. Newton to lay beforethemi
addi-
tional information which he had received
to the matters at issue between the employers and the
employed.
Mr. NEWTON stated that although the present meeting
was vory numereusly attended, yet he believed due notice
had not been given to all the members, and therefore he
did not think it right to come to any Vote now
on the
subjects which they had met to consider. It was quite
a t
ncalled, to which
right. however, that those subjects should be discussed,
and that another meeting
shouldreh
not
eill all
m
the members should be duly suooneldi
with propt-
He believed
thenes s , h executiveut
d discretion,
councilret
ion,
had e
because the masters were going to
close their establishments on
thet
shouldloth 10th,
neveraed
throw the workmen on the world. I
elAlnineend weretcd
n Willing to remain at
because the masters wanted
to to wok over -time,
dteoltnhs
oat tyhhoeacrn i t°nEato hPt
. The emplo-yime, whether they
employers refused to corn-
tltbwirenkouefrdoeckro,tgt o butoi
nhepte workmen under the regulations which the men
adopted since the Ist of January. The employers had
taken very curious notions of the duties of workmen.
They wanted the workmen to come individually to treat
with them, while they_ themselves had been pledged to
act in accordance with the decision of the majority of
the combined masters. The proposition to split the
workmen into fractions, and deal with them in detail,
Came with
an ill grace from a body of men who were
acting in a collective capacity.—(Hear.) It was well
known that among the engineers there were thousands
of persons who could speak to their employers with the
same plainness and firmness as to men of their own
order. A considerable number of the emyloyers in-
tended to keep the best of the men attached to their es-
tablishments by sending them to jobwork in different
places; but these men would surely not allow themselves
to be made a catspaw of, to the injury of their fellow-
workmen. Forty workmen bad already put down 54
each, making 2001. for the purpose of opening a working-
man's establishment, and they were now negotiating for
suitable premises, and were about engaging a manager
to conduct the works. A large quantity of tools has also
been contributed.—(Efear, hear.) There was no doubt
of their commencing immediately, as they had promises
of several jobs already.—(Loud cheers.) Those men
had last night asked the advice of the executive council
on the subject, and they were told to proceed with the
undertaking, but that when other workshops were esta-
blished on a similar principle, they should be all brought
under some central control, so that one shop should not
be altogether idle while the others were fully occupied.
—(Cheers.) The society had received promises of sup-
port from several noblemen, who were willing to become
trustees of those new establishments, and that circum-
stance would carry away a great deal of unjust suspicion
that might otherwise attach itself to the movement. One
trade had informed the council that 2,000 members had
agreed to pay out of their earnings five shillings a week
each to support the engineers in this struggle.—(Ch°T.)
Mr. Newton then proceeded to vindicate the society
from the charge of desiring to exclude the labourers. He
thought it was their duty to assist the labourers, the
1 hg"mermen, the gatekeepers, and every class of persons