The Sun.
London, England, 1852-12-04 00:00:00

. --- .
ions necessary for the protection of the revenue. I I have shown you that there has been a diminution of
will not say anything about the use of molasses poor-rates from 1848 to 1851 of nearly 25 per cent.—a
in breweries, or the reduction of the duty on rum, very important point for me to consider as regards the
for the same reason which induced me not to enter expediency of dealing with those rates ; but, though
into discussion respecting stamps or charterparties there has been, from 1848 to 1851, a diminution of
and marine insurances. They are not questions of pecu- nearly 400,0001. a year in the poor-rates, I have here
liar burdens, but enter into the consideration of the the return for 1852 ; and I. am sorry to say that that
means by which the general revenue of the country shall rate of diminution has not only ceased, but that very
tie raised ; and this is not the moment to make any ob- little diminution has taken place. (Hear, hear.) The
ervations on that point. There is one other subject returns of the Poor-law Board, which I have in my
hich it is necessary for me to touch upon before enter- hand, are very contradictory to the popular opinions
. '
ng into the consideration of the general question—l al- that are held, and it is of the utmost importance that
tide to the local taxation of the country. (Hear.) It we should have correct ideas upon this subject,
is quite unnecessary for me to enttr into any of those ar- not only with reference to the condition of the
guments with which we, all of us, are familiar as to the people, but also with reference to that important
character of our local taxation. It is quite unnecessary question which is agitating the public mind—namely,
for me any longer to enter into arguments to show that as to the influence of emigration upon the consuming
there are objects of universal interest to this country power of the country. One would suppose, from what
which are, in fact, sustained by taxation imposed, not on we are told, and from what we read every day, that an
the general property of the countr, but on a portion of able-bodied pauper was not in existence, .and that a
that property only. (Hear, hear.)y The whole question time has arrived in which the common business of the
has been met so ingeniously by one who, though opposed country cannot be carried on. Now the fact is, that
to the policy I sometimes recommended, is a master of in that wonderful period of 1851-52, in which
the subject--I mean Mr. Cornewall Lewis—that lam we heard all these stories, and when I, for one, was
perfectly willing, as far as any reasoning on the subject prepared to see certainly an equal diminution of pau-
is concerned, to rest it on the evidence given by perism in the country, there has been no such result.
that gentleman before a committee of the House The amount of the rates for 1851 was 4,962,0001.,
of Lords on the subject of local taxation, and sub- and for 1852, 4,894,000/. ; and I find, froth the return sequently revised and printed by him in a pamphlet for the half-year ending in Michaelmas, 1852, that the
when in office, and, of course, with the sanction of amount is 2,432,0001, which being doubled would give
the Government to which he belonged. As far as prig- 4,864,000/. for the year ; -but you must remember that
•
ciple is concerned, there can no longer be any con- the half-year ending at Michaelmas is the mild half-
test upon this point. Take the case of the tax for the year, and, therefore, I do not think we can believe
support of the poor. Is there, in the world, an obliga- that any sensible reduction of the pauperism of the
tion so generally binding as that of supporting the poor 1 country ought to be relied on. I confess myself, not-
Yet, it , cannot be denied that the poor are not supported withstanding this return, I believe that the country
by the general property of the country. (Hear.) It is is in a most prosperous state, and I will not
unnecessary, therefore, for me to enter into any discus- relinquish the belief that pauperism will yet be sensibly
sion upon the subject. Some years ago the real property diminished ; but it is my duty to place these facts before
of the country—namely, the agricultural portion—being the house. Still the great fact remains that the charge for
suffering under great distress, was extremely sensible of pauperism in this country upon realised property, and es-
the great injustice of being called on to pay exclusively pecially upon the agricultural interest, has been reduced
local rates for universal obligation, and the agricultural by the amount of 25 per cent. since I first drew the at-
interest naturally called the attention of Parliament, to tention of the house to the subject—(hear, hear)—arid
the incidence of this unequal taxation. After the divi- there is no doubt, notwithstanding the somewhat dis-
sions which took place in this house, and the progress of appointing return I have just placed before the house,
opinion on the subject, I think I may assume that we that there are circumstances in operation at this mo-
shall have no dispute upon principle, and we have now to ment which, if human judgment can lead us with any
consider what course we shall take with respect to taxa- advantage, must considerably affect the amount of pan-
tion which is mainly levied for purposes of general obliga- perism in this country. I have no doubt the counteract-
tion, but is not levied on the whole community. The local ing causes that, for a moment, have arrested the rapid
taxation of the country is a subject with which the diminution of the rates might be discovered, but I my-
house is so fathiliar, that I saall be able to treat it self still believe there are circumstances and causes in
more succincly than I probably should have been operation that will progressively, and even materially,
able to do a 'short time back. This local taxation diminish the pauperism of the country. Well, then, sir, I
resolves itself into three principal rates. The highway- have to consider, under these circumstances, whether
rate has been discussed in this house chiefly with refer- it will be expedient to deal with the sum that is raised
ence to its improved administration. The county-rate, by local taxation for the maintenance of the poor. I
though not very considerable in amount, has excited pub- have to recollect that, since I brought this subject for-
lie interest from the attempts which have been made to ward, there has been such a diminution that four times
establish the representative principle in connexion with the establishment charges of the board have been saved
its management.. The third great rate, which has long to the realised property of the country. (Hear, hear.)
engaged public attention, is the poor-rate. I will not say I have to recollect, also, with regard to that peculiar
anything on the subject of the highway rate. Six bills portion of the realised property of the country whose
have been brought into Parliament, with the view of claim I urged, that since the period of 1849 the relative
establishing a better administration of the highway-rates, proportion between that property and the other realised
and it was my intention not even to have adverted to property of the country has undergone a change, and
the subject, were it not that my hon. friend, the Under that from both these causes the incidence of this taxation
Secretary for the Home Department, who presided with is less severe. Thirdly, Ido believe that all the influences
singular ability and unwearied industry over the commit- in operation, notwithstanding the return I have quoted
tee on turnpike trusts, and who on several occasions has, to the house, tend to the diminution, and the consider-
as the house has recognised, proved himself to be a master able diminution, of that burden. (Hear, hear.) Well,
of the subject—has, though having quite enough to do sir, as my means are limited—looldng, as I have anxiously
in his own office, been kind enough to assist me in the pre- looked, for means by which I might assist every suffering
paration of a bill on the subject of highway-rates. I class, every class which I think has a fair claim to the
li
hope that this bill will, after six experiments, win the consideration of the house, in a manner which would con-
confidence of the house and the country, and have a tribute to the general welfare of the community—heliev-
beneficial effect, both administratively and financially, ing that the measures which, on the part of my col-
on the districts affected by the highway-rate. The county leagues, lam about to propose to-night have that ten-
rate, although the smallest of the three, has, from the dency, and that they will greatly assist those who, I
peculiar circumstances to which I have already adverted, think, have been subjected to a very severe trial, and
excited a good deal of interest in this house. With re-
.who, in this respect, I conceive, are liable to a taxation
spect to the administration of this rate I will state gene-
which, on principle, cannot be defended,—l am not pre-
rally, on the part of the Government, that we have not pared Jo r commend any change whatever in the present
the slightest objection to the representative system being system of raising the local taxation of the country.
carried into any portion of the management of the affairs (This announcement was followed by loud cheers from
of this country into which it can be introduced with the Opposition benches, and the right hon. gentleman
advantage to the general interests of the community. having paused for a few moments, a very animated con-
(Cheers.) I therefore see no reason to object, at the versation was carried on in the interval by hon. mem-
first blush of the thing, to the proposition that the rate- hers on both sides of the house.) I have now, Sir,
payers should be introduced into the immediate manage- (the Chancellor of the Exchequer, continued), considered
ment of the fund produced by the county-rate. At the three instances of peculiar interests that have, in my
same time, I must observe that the fund is a small one, opinion, suffered by recent legislation. I have placed
and that it comprises some important items of expendi- before the house the general views of her Majesty's Go-
which certainly ought not to be too much under the vernment with respect to those interests. I have offered,
control of popular assemblies —I allude to the expendi- with regard to the shipping interest, measures which, as
ture on account of gaols and lunatic asylums. (Hear, far as I-could judge of the feeling of the house, were, I
hear.) The gaols and lunatic asylums have hitherto think, considered moderate but satisfactory. (Hear from
been under the superintendence of the magistrates, and the Opposition.) I mean moderate so far in their coneep-
it is admitted that those gentlemen have, on the tion that they have not been framed with an ad captan-
whole, discharged their duties in a satisfactory manner, dim purpose ; satisfactory, because I believe this house
though, speaking a priori, it might be objected that the and the country will take them as a final settlement of
control of establishments of this kind ought not to be that controversy. I have endeavoured on the part of
vested entirely in them. It cannot, I think, be doubted the Government to view the claims of the sugar colonies
that the prisons of this country ought to be very much, in a just and fair spirit. lam sure that those who are
if not entirely, under the control of the executive Govern- connected with that interest must be satisfied that it
ment. (Hear.) I think the time is approaching—and it would be quite impossible to propose a differential duty
may be rapidly—when we shall have to consider the —(cheers from the Opposition)—that that claim could
whole question of punishments as one of the most press- only have been urged by those who were not masters of
- - ing questions of the day—(hear, hear)—and an occasion the facts ; and they must see, from the course taken on
will perhaps arise when the Government may feel that the part of the Government as to encouraging emigra-
they ought to act with more directness and decision with tion to the colonies, and permitting them to carry on the
- - respect to the management of gaols than the house would manufacturing processes without the restrictions which
......"..-- now be prepared to sanction. However, at present, tak- before existed—a boon which has been described to me
ing a limited view of -the local taxation, let us see what by an eminent member of the Weqt India. body as equal
burden it imposes on that portion of the property of the itself to a differential duty of 18d.,—they must feel, when
country which has suffered most by recent legislation ; the Government have taken upon themselves the respon-
and if we be of opinion that that burden is unjust, let us sibility, for it is a grave responsibility, of recommending
consider what remedy we can apply to the case. In the that step, besides others to which I shall have to advert,
first place, let me remind the house that the incidence of that there has been an anxious desire on our part to
the country-rate on the property of the country is ek- place them in as good a position as present circumstances
tremely slight. The rate amounts to 800,0001., subject and the temper of the public mind would per-
to a deduction on account of contributions from the con- mit. I believe, Sir, that the measures tve have re-
solidated fund and other sources, to the extent of commended with respect to the West India body will
200,000/. Taking this deduction into account, the rate sensibly improve the condition of that interest. I shall
amorists to 3d. in the pound on the property assessed. not touch any further upon the subject of local taxation.
Admitting the incidence of the bounty rate to be unjust, I now approach the more important topic of viewing the
what can we do that will produce any sensible effect ? taxation of this country under the new circumstances in
If we should throw half of the amount of the rate on which all parties and conditions of men have now agreed
the consolidated fund, it would relieve the ratepayer to totbe placed. So long as there were two great parties
the extent of three-halfpence in the pound ; but, at the in this country who questioned the principle upon which
same time, it would enter into an undertaking of such an your commercial code ought to be established, it was
amount as would sensibly embarrass us in dealing with impossible to attain any general adhesion to the prin7
the general taxation of the country. There are many ciple upon which your ,financial policy ought to be
taxes that do not produce more than 400,0001. a-year,-- constructed:- As long as a man thought that his
. - and yet are extremely injurious to the community, and industry ought to be protected he was prepared to
, injurious, of course, as a consequence,- to the great body endure= a heavy burden of taxation. As long as a
of the agricultural community. I say, then, frankly, man thought that his industry should be free from, all
as far as the county-rate -is concerned, that lam not restriction, of course -he demurred against the system
prepared to recommend any change in that portion of the which imposed restriction upon the financial arrange-
local taxation. (Sensation, and some interruption caused milts of the country, and raised the prices of the arti-
yeonversation among hon. members.) I must remind Iles which he consumed. But from what has occurred
hon. gentlemen • that they were so kind as to inti. it is obvious, generally speaking, that unrestricted coin-
mate that they would not decide upon my pro- petition is not 'consistent with unrestricted industry, and
posal until it was altogether before them—(hear, hear)— in
.a word, if you decree that the community are to re-
and that they would let the state my case. (Cheers.) ceive low prices ur policy ought to be one which will
Now, sir, I come to the consideration of the poor rates. put an end as soon aspossible to high taxes. (Hear,
- Ido not in any way change my opinion that the abso- -hear.) - Well, Sir, after the general election, and after
lute incidence of all local taxation is perfectly indeeen. the solemn verdict of the countiy, I had to consider the
Bible in point of principle ; but, looking to that which is
general system of our taxation, Lid to apply it to the
most expedient for the country generally, and
most ex- principle of unrestricted competition. I had to ask m -
pedient for that class which I think may be injuriously self what were the measures which it was best to recoil-
affected by the present arrangement--taking that view went to'Parliament. Now this that th• principle is formally
of the case, I will now for a moment examine the poor and definitively established, whit were the measures
rates. We must, sir, remember, in the first place, that most consistent with that principle, and which would
a very great change has taken place in the burden of the enable the community to encounter that competition which
poor rate since, at the commencement of 1849, I first it must now, in every form and in every sense, be pre-
brought under the consideration of the house the inci- pared to meet ? Well, Sir, when I took that subject
dence of our local taxation, and especially and mainly of into consideration, given, it the utmost thought I could
- the poor rate, upon realized property, and particularly command, it, appeared to me that we must arrive inevi-
upon that portion of realised property which was pecu- tably at this result—that you will best enable the people
Early subjected to this tax. Between the last official to engage in that competition to which they are now
return describing the amount levied for the main- for ever destined by cheapening as much as possible that
tenance of the poor, which was on the table when I ad- which sustains their lives. (Hear, and cheers.) I look,
dressed the house on that subject in 1849, and the last therefore, to articles that are of prime necessity—(loud
official return which is now on the table of the house, cheers' from the Opposition benches),—and if I find that
there is a difference of nearly 25 per cent. (Hear, hear.) those articles of prime necessity are subjected to some
When I look into the expediency of the course lam to of the heaviest taxes in our tariff, then I say that these
take, that is a most important consideration. There is are arrangements inconsistent with the new system we
no proposition I ever brought forward—at least, there is have established, and the new principles of which we
no practical proposition I ever brought forward with have- approved. It is the boast of honourable gentle-
any chance of its being carried—(the right hon. gen- men opposite that they have given cheap bread to
demon was here interrupted by some derisive laughter the community, but the principles upon which you
from the Opposition benches)--I mean a proposition have given cheap bread to the community are prin-
which had any chance of being carried—a proposition ciples which ought to make you cheapen the sustenance
supported by a large party in this house, because a pro- of the community in every form—(cheering from the
position that is not supported by a large party in the Opposition benches),—and I think I shall be able to
house is not one that has any chance of its being carried ; show to the house, that if they adopt that principle
but there is no proposition I ever brought forward with of - finance, they will, in a legitimate manner, with-
respect to the establishment which, if it had been carried, out going out of their way, and without any arti-
would have effected so great a relief as the gradual ficial means, be giving the greatest possible - impulse
diminution of time poor-rates. (Hear, hear.) Now to every branch of the industry of the country, and es e- take, for example, the establishment charges. The eially to those very branches that have most suffered by
• establishment- charges for the salaries of officers con- recent legislation. (Cheers.) The house, • therefore,'
netted with the administration of the poor are will not be astonished that her Majesty's Government
something like 430,0,001. a year. Well, since 1848.49, are prepared to recommend Parliament to deal with the
when the last return upon the table was made, you have malt tux. (Loud cheers.) Here is a prime necessity of
had, on an average, a diminution equal to the amount of life subject to a very high tax, and a very high, tax levied
Your establishment charges. The return of the expen- under - circumstances which greatly restrict industry 7
dwiture for the relief and maintenance of the poor, which (Hear, hear.) lam not called upon to recommend the
.._as on the table when I addressed the house 'in 1849 change lam about to propose to the house to- hon. gen-
Znwtn,ot the return for 1849, but for 1848—(hear, hear) tlemen opposite on any other plea than that which they
ta, it was, of course, the basis of my general argu- have always declared to be sovereign plea-enamely,. the
this s De.id the origin of the - feeling in the country on benefit of the consumer. Hon. gentlemen opposite have
an,„:l`23ext. The amount was 6,180,0001. Now, the sometimes told ' friends of mine, when they
,have pro-
poor i:
the nded for the relief and maintenance of the posed dealing with the malt tax as a. means of assisting
the table of i''ar 1851—according to the last return on the agricultural interest, that it was only a con_
which I shall hrouse, though I have a more recent one, sumer s tax— (hear, hear)—but lam sure hon. gentle.
6,180,000/. waaefuler,gt6o2:oBuobols.equently—insteacl of being men opposite will not oppose the plan of the Govern-
Opposition) I (Loud cheers from the meat on that plea—(cheers from the . Ministerial
on account of theadimianfraid that is really not a cheer benches)—that they will not get up and !tell me I
from the Ministerial upon of pauperism. (Laughter ant about to propose a change in the law which will
. a cheer for recent
olerp7Bsititliiisnr2 I am afraid it is only benefit the consumer, (Cheers and laughter.)
cheering from the (Laughter, and some It can hardly be the effect of the dissolution 'of Parlia-
to disturb "recent legislation" -) Now, I don't want meat, it will hardly be the effect of the triumph of un-
n°on'te tl i glaire
(a lah nd hear)—but restricted competition; that lamto be told by hon.
your cheer is a very illogical
lust show you—what I should gliter)—and I gentlemen opposite, on the first occasion when I pro-
becauseany
corzise have done, pose the remission of a tax, that it can only benefit the
n I
don't want to raise
not Yon oven4y on the consumer. On the contrary, I give hon. gentlemen
subject—that recent. legislation may
"°L nave had any- opposite credit for the consistent and sincere conviction
thing to do with this result. (Hear froin th
(addressing the Opp' osition) think recent
e 11inisterial that the interest of the consumer is the interest which
.
side.) Now you
P
ought first to consider. I have never disguised my
leg,islat:on is the cause of the poor-rates in 1851 having
and upon that you eh epinions on this subject. I have always told my friends
been under 5,000,0001., cheered but I.
that in 1846 the rates were rrttl 'hat thougitit was certainly the interest of the consumer
then it so happens
that the malt tax should he dealt with, still it was my
less. (Laughter from the Ministerial side. Mr. 131/ ,'er
opinion that there was no tax with which we could deal
"With the same price of coin ?" followed by cheers G"
think, thoughl don't if properly dealt with, would more benefit the
laughter from the Opposition.)
ericultural
interest. (Cheers from the Ministerial side.)
i some returns of the prices of 1 h
I '.
Ban
d ::1 hich, .
want to do it, I could proc. ace
I,c,ri
in
eilios,,etocontihieoesteimwhithltWllolll
ope hon, gentlemen opposite will notgrudge me few
corn which would show what was the fact—one return, .>Lservatio a few
for instance, which, when I quoted it, the late Sir R. Peel
appearsl toh have so
that intil)ige
said ought never to have been printed ; but there are -fuestion of the i l
greater sul)jets for us to consider than the triumph of .I,spect 'silica thnea t tax has assumed a totally different
obsolete ' " •
°PIH-was- - (Laughter from the Oppositi , ,
on.) I it was Baia by on repeal of the corn laws. I know
e who Justly looked upon one-sided free trade as an obsolete opinion, this house—one of very Was of great authority in
just as you look upon protection and I ana lost in the the moment-you repeated gtrheeat authority with me—that
-great principle of the day--that of unrestricted competi- malt tax was inevitable ; corn
and laws the repeal of the
tier]. (Laughter and cheers.) Now Imust put these no great difficulty in demons' sir,. I think there will be '
Acts berme the house, because the
y are very signi c
4. clear, when Ministers of
. •

State take every opportunity of informing the cultivator
of the soil that he must grow as tittle wheat as possible,
that the difficulty of maintaining the policy of a law
which restricts the production of the next generous grain
is proportionately increased. There is no doubt, when
the tendency of your recent legislation is to diminish the
production of wheat, and, in fact, to limit its pro-
duction to those soils which are eminently and na-
turally qualiafied for it, that the tendency of your legis-
lation should be, if not to encourage those produc-
tions which would be natural to the soil, now that
wheat is to be relinquished, at least not to main-
tain laws which would discourage the production of
them. (Hear.) Even as regards wheat, it is impos-
sible that any legislative means can be devised which
would more. tend to the encouragement and support of
the wheat land than in fact, diverting those soils that
were improperly employed in the cultivation of wheat
Muck to th original purpose. The more you produce
burley upon. the soils qualified to produce barley, the
viete you are improving the market for the production
orthose soils eminently qualified to give us wheat ; and
the indirect influence of any change in the malt-tax upon
the production of wheat will be, in my opinion, very
considerable., (Hear, hear.) Well, sir, we now have to
consider, in the first place, how we shall deal with this
tax, in what :manner and to what degree. If we deal
with it in a In nail manner, we shall probably accomplish
none of those objects to which I have alluded. (Cheers.)
The consumer will not be benefited—the cultivator of
the soil will Tiot be benefited—you'll neither have cheap
beer, nor -will you have a freer cultivation of the
land of the country. (Hear, hear.) What you want is,
that you shall have as much as possible unrestricted
industry, anti'. its consequences, as far as the cultivator
of the soil is, 'concerned, and that one of the consequences
of that unr, 38 tricted industry should be that the con-
sumer should enabled to procure one of the main causes
of his expendi iture, and one of the principal sources of
his health an.. I strength, supplied to him at a reduced
price. Thos. are the objects we wish to attain, and
they appear t a us to be objects which cannot be attained
if we deal in :a small manner with this great subject.
(Cheers.) Ti Le existing duty upon malt is 2s. 74d. and
5 per cent. on the bushel. The consumption is increas-
ing. In 1;34:9 it was 38,935,000 bushels; in 1850 it
was 40, 744, .900 ' • and in 1851 it went a little back, and was
was 40,377,000 bushels. But, though increasing, there
is no article. of counsumption which has less propor-
tionately in. zeased, and the diminution of the con-
sumption o„5 -which can, I think, be more clearly
attributed to. the large tax levied on it, and to the
restrictions which that tax occasions. (Hear, hear.)
I know tbs'ere are gentlemen who 'have endea-
voured to no aiintain at times that the reason the con-
sumption of a ialthas not increased is, that the taste of the
country has 1 wen directed to other sources of sustenance
and exeitemei it ; but I think I could. show to the house,
by a reference•Lo general statistics on these subjects, that
that is a. position which cannot be maintained. Well,
sir, under filet to circumstances, her Majesty's Govern-
ment think it t heir duty to recommend to the house that
the reduction' of the malt tax should be considerably
diminished—a tat we should diminish by one-half the
amount of the present duty on malt. (Hear, hear.) The
sum which ire . have to deal with, is a sum which exceeds
5,000,0001. ri regards the revenue, and we propose that
we shall diminish the duty exactly by one-half; we pro-
pose that there should be paid an uniform duty, of Is.
3,1 d. and 5 per cent. per bushel upon barley, and also
upon here andib igg; we propose to terminate the difference
in the duty which has been injuriously and improperly
maintained bet. seen malt raised from barley, and from bere
and bigg: and. w e propose also to do away with the draw-
back in Scotland upon spirits produced from malt. That
drawback ha s already been renounced by Ireland as
unnecessary. It was recommended by the commissioners
on excise inquiry as one winch should be terminated
whenever ark,,T considerable reduction took place in the
duty upon m.-Qt ; and I think I shall have no difficulty
in showing to. the house, when we come to points of de-
tail, that this? 5s a change which ought no longer to be
postponed. (He ar, hear.) Now, allow me to read to the
house, the reoommendation which was made, in the year
1831 I think, upon the subject of the malt duty, by a
distinguished member of this house, Sir Henry Parnell,
who was, I 'believe, at the head of the Royal Com-
mission to in quire into the Excise, and to whose la-
bours we are indebted for some of the most valuable
documents in our Parliamentary library. (Hear,
hear.) Now, these words are very interesting when we
remember the circumstances under which they were
written. Having entered into a general statement of the
grounds to show that the most effectual. mode of sup-
pressing illicit malting would be by a reduction of the
duty on malt, he -went on as follows :
" But if tt:e importation of foreign barley be not per-
mitted, the to ndency of a reduced duty to increase the con-
sumption of malt would be counteracted by the price of
British barle: T becoming higher in consequence of the new
demand for it, which would arise from the duty having
been lowered ; and thus the consequence of a reduction of
duty-would: 7be, not such an increased consumption of malt
as would k eEp-the revenue up to its present amount, but a
higher price of barley, and a certain loss of revenue.
As, therefore) there is no probability of a reduced duty
being foil uwed by such an increased consumption of malt
as would prevemt a loss of revenue, so long as the importa-
tion of for e!gn "barley is restricted, we are of opinion that it
will be proferable to endeavour to check illicit malting by
the enforcement of (the Excise laws, however inadequate
they may 13.3 to 'produce a complete remedy, rather than to
try the exp eriment of stopping it by a reduction of duty.
If there we re no factitious cause for elevating the price of
barley, ails ing from the direct effect of a duty en foreign
barley, or i rom the indirect effect of duties on other kinds of
foreign corn, we should not feel any hesitation in saying that
the prope r way of dealing with the malt duty would be to
reduce it oz le-half."
Those well) the words of Sir Henry Parnell. Practically,
he said that, if your corn laws were repealed, he recom-
mended ye u to reduce your malt duty one-half—(hear,
hear)—tha , too, is the opinion of a gentleman as tender
of the revez me as any gentleman who ever spoke in this
house. Those circumstances, which he possibly did not
contemplate , have occurred ; you have repealed your corn
laws, and I ask you now to sanction the recommendation
made by Sir _Remy Parnell at that time. " For," says he :
" Nothing, in our opinion, can be more unwise than to re-
duce duties en articles which are fit subjects of taxation,
without at Vie same time taking care to secure the most abun-
dant supply .that is possible to be secured of the materials
which are nee essary for their production."
Well, you, have done that. The circumstances which he
anticipated ;have occurred ; and now I ask you to adopt
the measure ;which he recommended. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. CAYT....E Y—ls that the report of the commissioners
that you have quoted from ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER--Yes ; the
report of thu commissioners on the Excise Inquiry, of
which Sir H. Parnell was the chairman. The report of
the commissioners also recommended terminating the draw-
back on malt In Scotland. That is at present Bd. per gal-
lon; and, of course, if there were a reduction of the duty
by one-half, it would only be 4d. per gallon. But here is
the report of committee on the Spirit Duties in Ire-
land

high price, we have ended in importing more than
70,000,0001 b. in one year, and every year at a cheaper rate.
(Hear, hear.) These would seem to be facts in the face of
which it is very difficult to believe that the production of
tea can be limited. A production so immensely increased,
and always imported at a lower price, appears to be one
the supply of which cannot certainly be likely to fail. But
in the year 1834, I think, or shortly after the passing of
the Reform Bill, when the trade with China was opened—
when the charter of the East India Company was about to
be, or had become matter of discussion—it was always
urged by persons of authority, against opening the trade
with China, that we should be greatly disappointed in
what would occur, because, the supply of tea being limited,
it was quite impossible that there could be any reduction
in the price. The supply of tea was then, I think, about
30,000,0001 b. per annum. Now we had, last year, im-
ported the unprecedented amount of 71,466,0001 b., our
consumption being, in round numbers, 54,000,0001 b. It
is quite clear, therefore, that the importation of tea is still
greater than our consumption ' and it is also quite clear
that the duties which exist, which are nearly 240 per cent.
per lb. check a consumption equal to the importation.
(Hear, hear.) Well, sir, when we look to the gradual
increase in the importation of tea ; when we look to
the broad fact that 30,000,0001 b. under the restricted
trade have increased- to 71,466,0001 b. under the freer
trade, though subjected to a colossal duty ; when we look
to all the evidence before us, and to the gradual diminu-
tion always of price, we have a right, I think, primd facie,
to conclude that there will be no difficulty in supplying
the demand for tea in this country. But, Sir, her Ma-
jesty's (overnment, in dealing with this important subject,
have not deemed it consistent with their duty merely to
depend upon their own conclusions, formed from books,
and their observation of what occurs around them. They
have an opportunity of consulting those who are great autho-
rities on the subject, who, by their foreign residence, their
particular study of the matter in question, and their na-
tural aptitude to form conclusions on such subjects, should
be entitled to guide the judgment of any Administration.
They have applied to those who, locally, were the best ca-
pable of forming an opinion—though, of course, to form
an opinion on a subject in a country like China is much
more difficult than in some other countries. Nevertheless,
we have now some knowledge of China ; nevertheless, there
are individuals who are very competent to guide even a
Government on such subjects ; and, after bestowing upon
this question the most laborious investigation, and having
omitted no efforts to obtain the most accurate information :
having suggested every means and every test by which
that information could be brought to bear, having even
personally had the honour and satisfaction of conferring
with some peculiarly qualified to offer an opinion on the
subject—her Majesty's Government have arrived at the
conclusion which) to use the most moderate language I can
command, may be thus expressed—that there can be no
prospect of any want of a supply of tea to this country.
(Hear, hear.) It is under these circumstances, sir, that we
have varnined this question. We must remember some
facts of importance ; we must remember that since
the year 1841 the annual increase in the consumption of
tea in this country has been 1,727,000 lb. There has been
a gradual-increase from 1841 of the consumption of tea,
even at a duty of 240 per cent. That increase during the
last few years has been much larger. During the last six
years, without any reduction of duty, it has been nearly
10,000,000 lb. In 1851 the consumption in round num-
bers was 54,000,000 lb. ; in 1844 it was 44,000,000 lb. In
considering this subject, it was impossible to shut our eyes
to what Qs occurred in respect to the consumption of
sugar. (Hear.) The consumption of sugar in the year
1844, the year immediately preceding the great reduction
of duty, was 4,129,000 cwt. ; in 1850 it was 6,200,000 cwt.
—(hear, hear)—and in 1851 it was nearly 6,600,000 cwt.
—(hear, hear)—showing an increase in the first six years
of about one-half, and in seven years of considerably
more than one-half, the duty having been reduced
in the proportion of 25 to 10. In dealing with
tea we are of opinion that it would be perfectly
vain to attempt to make any difference either between
black and green, or between any qualities whatever. (Hear.)
We are persuaded we should only involve ourselves in
great trouble ; we should not attain the object we all de-
sire, and in this question, as in malt, or any question of a
similar kind, boldness is the wisest course. (Hear, hear.)
I mentioned before, we were not of opinion that the reduc-
tion of duties on articles so far .of a similar character that
they both tend to the sustenance of the people in the form
of beverages, at all interfere with each other. I do not
know any more striking case than the case of coffee. I
think that in 1808 there was little more imported into this
country than 1,000,0001 b of coffee. The duty was then
considerable. It was changed—it was much lower; and,
in 1809—and remember what our population then was, as
compared with what it is at present—the importation was
nearly 10,000,0001 b. But simultaneously with that in-
creased consumption of coffee, the consumption of tea has
increased, and we are now consuming 37,000,0001 b of coffee,
while, as I have just shown, last year we consumed
54,000,0001 b. of tea, and probably we shall not consume
much less-than 57,000,0001 b in the year ending the sth of
January, 1854. Under these circumstances, availing our-
selves of the experience which dealing with the sugar duties
has given, following a precedent which I think has been so
successful—(hear)—we think the proposition that we ought
to make to the house—a proposition which I believe in
every way is a safe proposition—should be one in its cha-
racter of a complete and comprehensive nature. The pre-
sent duty upon tea, with the 5 per cent. added, is 2s. 2d.
a pound. Without making any distinction in the qualities
of tea, we propose that we should reduce that-duty is a-
pound—(loud cheers)—and we propose that, following the
example of the sugar duties, that reduction should take
place during the term of six years—(cries of " Oh, oh," and
laughter)--that in the first year there should be a reduc-
tion of 40. (Laughter.) I think hon. gentlemen, when
they have reflected for a moment, will find that they are
too precipitate in their laughter, because we have to
consider two things,—we have not only to consider
the revenue, but also the consumer who seems
to bo quite forgotten. (Hear, hear.) There is
not the slightest doubt that if the state of the re-
venue allowed you at once to reduce the duty to is. a
pound, you would probably find the greater proportion
of it would not be to the advantage of the consumer ;
because, although I have great confidence in the produc-
tion of Sea in China, although I know that China is the
most populous country in the world, without stating how
many hundred millions may be there, and although I
know that tea is used in every part of China, and that the
quantity exported is comparatively a very small part of
that which is produced and consumed in China, and
although I know very well there is a surplus left f
that
quantity in China, still I am perfectly aware that if there
is a sudden demand in this market, and you have not taken
the usual and prudential care and consideration upon which
all trade must be conducted, you will not find the consumer
benefitted in the manner you desire, while at the same
must suffer. (Hear, hear.) It
years to make a tea tree, and that is a
timeae
threethe
or revfeem4e
point to be considered in dealing with these duties. If
you want to increase production, especially of such an
article as tea, you cannot suddenly go with a demand for
which they are not prepared ; but, if you take the scale
which her Majesty's Government propose—a very mode-
rate scale I admit, but I believe a very safe one—l think,
with very slight injury to the revenue, you will ultimately
ob
arti pr
tain that cheap and superior article which you would
tea •i
desire. Of
likcourse, immediately dealing with an article of
s not e dea with cles of ' domestic oduce,
which are subject li
tong different conditions. But what we
propose is, that there should be an immediate reduc-
tion-Pound in the duty on tea, reducing it
a-pound-and to is. 10d. I myself put the in-
crri;eamseo2dfs.42:l(. fa
consumption at a very slight figure. Instead of
'4,000,000 lh.; upon which the last January revenue was
ql5 house,al2enh moretht quantity eta t
probably which thet hre e
amountv
put, I only put 60,000,0001 b. for the first year of the reduced
t
duty, being an increase of 6,090,000 lb., but virtually not
than 3,000,0001 b. ; because, as I have told the
the lasteetnaskamen
pintieJeaneifiaza,
consumption of tea has so much increasea on the
for this year will be 57,000,000 lb. Therefore, virtually, I
inly calculate upon an increase of 3,000,000 lb. at the re-
duced rate for the first year. I think when we take the
erevenue
w fs
average of a great many years, we shall naturally arrive at
an increase of 2,000,000 lb. a year. This is .not an exces-
sive calculation. I think the reduction we propose is one
hat we could Make with perfect safety to our finances, as
I will show to the house when I sum up the changes which
the Government have determined to recommend. I pro-
pose, then, in regard to tea, that we should immediately
reduce the duty 44d. a lb., and that every year it thould
be reduced 2d. until it arrives at is. I believe if you
adopt that system you will very little injure the revenue,
—that you will gradually enable the people of this country
to have a supply, at a very reasonable rate, of a very
favourite beverage; and that you will do more than that
—that you will give a great stimulus to the commerce,
the shipping, and the manufactures of this country.
(Hear.) Ido not know of any measure more calculated to
give a great stimulus to the commerce and shipping of this
country than dealing largely and extensively with tea
—(hear, hear)—and although I might have been glad to
offer to the house a project with regard to this duty which,
upon one branch, might be of a more favourable character,
vet, considering that the financial year is not closed, and
other circumstances, I am persuaded we have taken a
prudent as well as a bold course ; and that, if the House
tempts our proposition, they will have consented to one of
the most important operations, and sanctioned one of the
most important measures ever brought forward to stimulate
the commerce of this country. (Hear.) There is one duty
I am about
.to deal with, which is connected with this
branch of the subject, and which, perhaps, I ought to have
adverted to before, and that is the hop duty. (Hear, hear.)
We are unwilling to make this effort to give cheap
beer to the people without dealing with one of the
important ingredients of that beverage. (Hear, hear.) The
house is aware there aro two duties now levied upon hops.
There is the old duty of the time of Queen Anne, and there
is the war duty imposed during our great struggle. Those
duties are almost equal in amount ; in round numbers,
without the fractions, they amount nearly to about ld.
each—(a laugh)—and what we propose is, that the old war
duty—a Very unpopular duty—a duty hich ought never
to be continued, should be remitted. (Cries of " Oh, oh!"
and laughter,) At present we do not propose to take off
all. Something must be left for future statements of this
kind. (Great laughter.) Still, I think, in reducing the
hop duty one-halt and the malt duty one-half, and reduc-
ing the tea duties immediately considerably in the pound,
and establishing machinery which will bring it down to ls. a
lb, it cannot be said we have been unmindful of the claims of
the community, acting on the principle of unrestricted com-
petition. Now, sir, there is one point of some importancewhich
I think I ought to touch upon. We are raising the revenue
of this country, and recommending all these measures on
the principle that the revenue of this country shall mainly
depend on the consuming power of the people. But it
/ias been said of late, it has been rumoured about with
considerable vehemence, that the consuming power of the
people is rapidly diminishing. Some modern economists--
I speak of those statements which meet my own eyes in
many quarters and in many places—say that the consum-
ing power of the people is in a state of rapid reduction ; and
I think I am only doing my duty in calling the attention
of the house to that subject, for it is ono that very
much agitates the public mind ; and it is the duty of
the house to instruct itself upon a subject of so much
importance ; for, if Wat is true, certainly the principle
upon which I am now recommending these measures is
erroneous and mistaken. Now, sir, no evidence reached
ine which in any way makes me believe there is the slightest
foundation for saying the consuming power of the people is
diminishing. (Hear, hear.) I apprehend the statement,
that the consuming power of the people is diminishing, is
founded upon the emigration that has taken place from this
country; and that is a subject to which the hon, and
learned member for Wolverhampton called my attention
the other night. There is no doubt that, if we look to the
returns of emigration, there is a greater amount of emi-
gration from this country than is counterbalanced by the
births that take place in England and Wales. In the
year 1849 the emigrations were in round numbers 300,009;
in 1850 they were 280,000 ; in 1851, 335,000 ; and on the
Ist of October, 1852, the last return I have, that is to
say, in three quarters of a year, they are in amount
nearly equal to the whole of the year 1851—namely,
332,000. There is no doubt also that the births of this
country, in 1851, were in round numbers little more than
600,000, and the deaths were 400,000, So it would seem

That it is the opinion of this committee that the repeal of
the malt drawback in Ireland will not be prejudicial either to
the trade in spirits, or to the revenue, in that country."
That was in 1842. In consequence of that, the draWback
in Ireland was terminated without a murmur. It has given
general satisfaction, and I am certain that the repeal of the
drawback in Scotland will prove equallk successful. (Hear,
hear.) There are many points in the report of the commis-
sioners of Excise Inquiry as regards malt which are well
worthy of the consideration of the house. They particu-
larly dilate on the length of credit which is given in that
trade. They show the vicious principle on which that sys-
tem has been established, and they recommend that the
credit should be limited to the samedura.tion which applies
to all other excisable articles. I confess lam not prepared
to give unqualified adhesion to that recommendation. I
think it is of the greatest importance that in all these
changes the particular trades involved should be disturbed
as little as possible ; and though I think that the princi-
ples laid down in that report are sound principles, and
that ultimately we should look as much as possible in
this country to diminish the system of long credits,
which is not adapted to the principle on which our
commerce is Conducted at present, but which is the
result, I think, of paper currency and warm speculation
—still, at the same time, I think it would not be wise
unqualifiedly and entirely to adopt the recommendation "
of the commissioners in this respect. We pro-
pose, then, that on the 10th of October next the
malt duty shall be reduced one-half. We have fixed on that
period, of course, after due examination into the question
when the change could take place with the least incon-
venience to the trade, and, as we believe, with the most
general benefit to the community, and the 10th of October
is the clay on which We have fixed. On that day we pro-
pose to take the stock on hand throughout the country,
and of course we shall guard those who are then possessors
of malt from the competition, as far as the one-half in the
amount of the, duty is concerned to which they will be
subjected, and for that, stock in hand they will receive a
drawback in proportion to the reduction of the duty. I
do not know that this is the convenient moment at which
_I should attempt to place before the house the effect of
these -changes upon the revenue. It will probably be
more convenient that at a subsequent part of my state-
ment I should place the effect of those changes before the
house. (Hear' hear.) I-will, then, once more, merely re-
capitulate, for the sake of clearness, what the change is.
We propose to reduce the duty on malt one-half ; wo pro"-
pose that there shall be no difference between the duty on
malt raised from barley and from here and bigg. This will
occasion some accession to the revenue, though it is notfor
that object, but in order, to simplify the subject as much as
possible, that recommend it to the house. We propose
to put an end to the drawback allowed in Scotland on spirits
raised from malt; and we propose that the reduction shall
take place (an the 10th of October next, on which day the
whole stock in hand throughout the country will be taken,
and a drawback allowed to the holders of that stock pro-
portionate in amount to the reduction of the duty. (Hear.)
Well, sir, following the principle which I have laid clown,
vill body
afrordofthcon-
sumers,
emost
the
that in the present state of affairs we should consider our
taxation
believingrfiinlegitimate, the surest, and the most efficient means of
al asthiattregthaartds potlihcey great
another branch of the question. I have shown you that
relieving the industry of the country, I proceed now to
by the manner in which we propose to deal with the malt-
tax we benefit largely, as we believe, the consumer ; but in
doing that we think that incidentally—and that was only
a secondary purpose—we are giving great facilities to agri-
culture. Now, Sir, I come to another branch of the sub-
ject. I come to deal with an article as popular with the
people as malt, as much a necessary of life, and subjected
to a much heavier tax. lam about to recommend to the
house to deal with tfie tea duties. (Cheers.) Sir, I know
the prejudices that exist among a certain class of persons
on the subject of the tea duties, but, having had occasion
to look very much into this question, Ihayo been as-
tonished to see the rise of opinion, the gradual forma-
tion of opinion, on this subject, now almost one of para-
mount interest in this country. (Hear, hear.) I hardly
know anythhig more amusing than to open " Pepys's
Diary," where we see it stated—" Took a cup of the now
China drink—very pleasant"—(laughter)—and to remember
that not two centuries have passed, and that exotic novelty
which pleased one evening thalf antastic gentleman is now
the principal solace of every cottage in the kingdom.
(Hear.) Well, sir, the great objection which has been
urged at different times and by persons in authority—for I
think it right to state a case of this kind as fairly as pos-
sible—is, that in dealing with tea we deal with an article of
limited production. te it is that Mr. Pepys had his
cup of the " new China drink"—true it is that since cer-
tainly the commencement of the last century, when only
500,0001 b. of tea were imported into this country at a very

I beg the House not to suppose that I have read this as
any other authority on the subject, but I feel that is neces-
sary that the sentiments which I uttered in the financial
statements I made to the House six or eight months ago
should be kept clearly before them. I also said :
" We deem it our duty to impress upon the committee and
upon the country the dangerous course upon which they have
embarked—to impress upon them the Absolute necessity, now
or in another Parliament, of arriving at s)me definite under-
standing on what principle the revenue of this country ought
to be raised. They deem it their duty to denounce as most
pernicious to all classes of this country the systematic reduc-
tion of indirect taxation, while at the same time you levy
your direct taxes from a very limited class." •
Now, sir, I cannot say that subsequent experience has
changed or modified my opinion on this subject. (Hear.
hear.) lam clearly of opinion that, if we have recourse to
direct taxation, that direct taxation should be as general, at
least in theory, as indirect taxation ; that, however, we may
in practice, find it expedient in some cases to make exemp-
tions, the theory that a plan of direct taxation can be based
upon a large system of exemptions is one which is most
pernicious, and ought to be avoided. (Hear, hear.) Well,
then, sir, I venture, in offering to the house the views
which her Majesty's nisters entertain with respect to the
property and income tax, to lay it down as a general prin-
ciple that, in considering this question, we ought to make
our direct taxation in theory at least as general as indirect
taxation. And, sir, when I consider the very large exemp-
tions which are connected with this tax, there is one which
I am bound at once to notice, and take into consideration,
and that is the exemption of Ireland. (Loud cries of "Hear,
hear !") Now, sir, when in the early pait of the year I
proposed, on the part of the Government, that this tax
should be continued for one year, I made no reference
whatever to Ireland. That was avowedly a mere tempo-
rary arrangement, and it was therefore quite unnecessary
to enter into the discussion then. But, having now come
to consider the question more widely, I do not think it
consistent with my duty to evade expressing the opinion
of her Majesty's Government on the subject. (Hear.)
Sir R. Peel, in his financial statement of 1842, when he first
introduced the property and income-tax, proposed to im-
pose on Ireland, as an equivalent for the property and in-
come-tax, two other measures,—the one was an increase of
the duty on spirits, which, I remember, he estimated would
produce 250,0001. a year, and the other was an increase of
the duty on stamps in matters affecting property, which
he estimated would produce 160.0001., making altogether
410,0001. a year. That was to be the contribution of
Ireland to the revenue in another form, and as an equiva-
lent for the exemption from the property and income-
tax. Now, one would naturally like to be always taking
off taxes, and never reminding any gentleman that he had
not perhaps paid those which had been expected of him—
(a laugh)—but it was necessary to inform the house that
the measure for increasing the duty on spirits had since
been rescinded, in consequence of its having been found to
have stimulated illicit distillation ; and that in 1841, before
the passing of the Property and Income-tax Act, the aggre-
gate receipt from the stamp duties was 470,0001. per
annum ; while in the year 1852 they produced only 486,000/.,
so that Ireland had contributed, as an equivalent for the
Property and Income-tax, instead of 410,0001. per annum,
as was expected, only 16,000/, (Hear, hear.) Well, Sir,
but notwithstanding all this, it is impossible to be
insensible to what Ireland has gone through. (Hear,
hear.) When Sir Robert Peel brought forward the
Income-tax, in 1842, it was impossible for him or the
most experienced statesman, to have foreseen the long
catalogue of calamities which awaited Ireland. (Hear.)
Almost every cause that could exhaust and every process
that could debilitate a country and society has been brought
to bear on that unhappy land. I freely admit, to use—not
a classical, but a frequent epithet—that as regards its
financial condition, Ireland since that period, or at least
during many years, has been in a very exceptional state.
But the state of Ireland is happily not now without a ray
of hope. (Laughter, and cries of Hear, hear.") As far
as I can form an opinion—and I can assure my Irish
friends that I have taken the utmost pains to make myself
acquainted with its condition—and I think I may venture
to speak of Ireland without using the language of de-
spair or the accents of desolation—(cheers)—you have
had a crushing poor-law ; but what is your present
position with regard even to that overwhelming evil:
Is it not more endurable ? (Hear, hear.) Permit
me to place before the house a return of the present
incidence of poor-law taxation in Ireland. I don't
want to- insult any gentleman by showing him that his
country is not ruined. (Laughter.) lam only anxious, in
fulfilment of my duty, to convey, as far as I can, a cor-
rect view of the state of her Majesty's dominions to " her
faithful Commons." (Hear, hear.) Now, I have here a
" comparative summary, in provinces, of the expenses in-
curred in the poor law unions of Ireland during the finan-
cial year ending September 29, 1850, 1851, and 1852 re-
spectively." I find from that document that the poor law
expenditure in 1850 amounted to the enormous sum of
1,320,0001. ; that in 1851 it was reduced to 1,129,0001. ;
that in the year ending the 29th of September last the ex-
penditure, which in 1850 was 1,320.0001., had been re-
duced to 855,0001. I also find that the decrease of ex-
penditure in 1851, as compared with 1850, amounted to
nearly 200,0001., or at the rate of 14 per cent.; that the de-
crease of expenditure in 1852, as compared with 1851, was
In amount 274,0001., or at the rate of 24 per cent.—that
the decrease in the expenditure of the year 1852, as com-
pared with 1850, was in amount not less than 465,000/., or
at the rate of 35 per cent. lam sure, when one has this
authentic return before him, he isjustified in not altogether
despairing of the condition of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) In
Connaught alone I find that the diminution of expenditure
in 1852, as compared with 1850, was no less than 116,0001.—
or at the rate of 48 per cent. (Cheers.) Now, sir, in
looking to the condition of Ireland, I must call the attention,
of the house to a document before me, because it completes
the picture of the incidence of poor law taxation, of which
we have heard so much. I don't deny that our friends in
Ireland have suffered from the severe incidence of taxation.
I admit that they have gone through a terrible ordeal • but
I say to them, as I say to the West India interest, "What
I mean to do for you is with reference to your present con-
dition, and not with reference to the past. (Hear, hear.)
Now, here is a document which reached me just before I
came down to the house, and which completes the picture
of the state of Ireland with reference to the poor law, of
which we have heard so much, and from which Ireland has
suffered so severely. It is addressed to me officially, and
is as follows :

from these returns that our births exceeded our deaths by
200,000 in the year 1851 ; and that our emigrations
exceeded the superfluity of our births by considerably
above 100,000 ; but, if these facts are a little examined,
—if they are a little analysed, it will be found there
is no foundation for the conclusions that have been
hastily drawn from them. In the first place, the re-
turn of our births, marriages, and deaths is confined to
England and Wales ; in the second place, the amount of our
emigration is small—two-thirds of it is from Ireland, a
country which does not figure in the returns of our births
and population. Then we have to consider the different
causes that have produced emigration from Ireland and
emigration from England. Emigration from Ireland is pro-
duced by a social system that has broken to pieces. (Hear.
It is produced, I may say, by the misery of the people.
The emigration from England is produced by causes exactly
the contrary. The people here were never better off, but
they have foreign inducements that act upon their spirit of
energy and enterprise, and they are determined to seek
even better fortunes than they experience. That is the first
point—that is the great difference between the causes that
have produced the emigration of the two countries. The
emigration from England is, in fact, only 100,000 a-year,
while there is an addition of 200,000 to its population.
There is nothing, it would seem, excessively apprehensive
in the fact that our emigration, stimulated by the higher
aspirations of man, and not occasioned bya sense of misery,
so far affects our population that 100,000 persons quit us,
while the natural increase of our population is 200,000 ; but
even if there were 200,000 or 300,000 quitting England, I
could not view emigration, under such conditions as those
under which the emigration from Great Britain takes place,
as a source of weakness to the country—(hear, hear)—or in
speaking of the finances of the country, as a source of the
diminution of its consuming power. (Hear.) One shrinks
from paradoxes upon a subject so grave ; but my own opi-
nion is that it has a tendency to increase the consuming
power. (Hear, hear.) Every emigrant from England
generally becomes an English colonist--(hear, hear)—and
an English colonist becomes an English customer—(hear,
hear)—and our markets are stimulated, our people are em-
ployed, and their wages are improved by the very circum-
stance which some regard as the source of our diminished
power of consumption. (Hear, hear.) But even if I look
to the case of Ireland, where emigration takes place under
conditions so contrary to those of England, I am still
obliged to arrive at a similar conclusion. Have hon. gen-
tlemen remembered what the state of Ireland was a few
years ago ?—have they forgotten that memorable document
the Devon Commission ?—have they remembered that
description, which.circulated throughout Europe, of there
being in Ireland 2,400,000 paupers—that more than one-
third of the people were receiving no wages of any kind—
that they were living in hovels, littered on straw, feeding
on dry roots, and often on seaweed ? That was the
description given by Royal Commissioners, under a
Royal Commission, of a great part of the people of
Ireland. Well, then, you have got rid, in a certain de-
gree, of that population. It is no doubt a dark passage,
a gloomy chapter, in the history of any country, that
such events should occur; but I am only looking at in a
financial point of view to-night. I am bound, in bringing
forward measures, such as, on the part of the Government, .
I am bringing forward, not to omit a matter of such vast
interest, upon the truth of which the whole of this subject
depends. It is of the utmost importance—the whole ques-
tion is the consuming power of the people of this country.
But, although we have lost in Ireland more than one
million and a-half of the population, has the revenue of
Ireland suffered a diminution in proportion to that
loss ? On the contrary, the revenue of Ireland never
very sensibly diminished. (Hear, hear.) Between the
year before the famine and in the present year there
has not been a difference of anything like half-a-million.
I believe in the former year it was very little more than
4,7000,0001., and—l am sorry lam trusting my memory
on the point—it is now, I think, 4,000,0001. and upwards.
But it is in a very buoyant state. I take the case of Ireland
because we are there apparently in a state of disadvantage ;
and all this shows that the consuming power of the people
does not depend on their numbers, but on their condition
(hear, hear), and lam persuaded that if the exodus, as it is
called, of Ireland continues, it will end even in Ireland
being a much richer and wealthier country, and that
the consuming power of the people will not only remain,
but will increase. (Hear, hear.) But, as regards Great
Britain, the emigration that takes place, instead of be-
ing a source of disquietude and alarm, is, in fact, the
means by which the wealth of this country will be greatly
increased ; it will have a most beneficial effect upon the
people that remain ; it will develope their resources, and
give opportunities to many who never before enjoyed
them, and the general result will be beneficial to the re-
venue. And not only will the consuming power of the
people increase, but also the population. There is one
point connected with this subject of great importance.
There is an apprehension entertained by some persons that
there is an unnatural rise in the rate of wages. Great authori-
ties, I believe, are of opinion that the rate of wages is
increasing so rapidly that the rate of profits will not only
be diminished, but destroyed. Now, lam bound to say,
that in pursuance of my duty, I have made inquiry into
this subject; but I have not received any evidence of the
extraordinary rise of wages of which I have heard. (Hear,
hear.) I believe that there has been a rise in wages, and I
believe, moreover, that it has been very much to the public
benefit ; and that, if it continues, the public will be
still more benefited. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) One thing,
I think, is clear—that the consuming power of the country
has not been diminished by the rate of wages rising. But,
sir, although the rate of profit depends upon the rate of
wages, that is not the only element in this great question.
There is another element still more important in its solu-
tion, and that is the rate of interest. (Hear, hear.) The
employer of labour may pay more for his work—l hope he
does ; but the employer of capital is obtaining that capital
at the present day at a lower rate, and with a facility
which no employer of labour ever before enjoyed. (Hear,
hear.) Sir, the hon. gentleman the member for Wolver-
hampton (Mr. Villiers) said to me the other night that the
discovery of gold, like any other article, had given activity
to commerce, but no more than any other article ; and lie
called upon me to meet him upon that point. I did not
think that that was exactly the night to go into that
question, but I deny the position of , the hon. gentleman
that the discovery of
.gold, like the production of
any other article, has given activity to commerce, but
no more than any other article. I maintain that
it has not only given increased activity to commerce,
but that it has influenced the commercial operations of
this country to an extent which no other article ever has
done. (Hear, hear.) I say that the discovery of gold,
considering the currency which we possess, has established
credit in this country in a manner which no political econo-
mist could ever have imagined. (Hear, hear.) I say that
it has increased and confirmed credit in this country, and
that that increase and confirmation of credit has, of course,
immensely increased the employment of the people. In my
opinion, it is a mere blind and obstinate prejudice to shut
our eyes to that conclusion. (Hear, hear.) But there is
another question to be considered in regard to our pros-
perity at this moment, and that is, will the present
low rate of interest last ? I hope it will. My opinion
is—though it is, perhaps, imprudent in me to give it—my
opinion is that, whatever imprudences may occur, and I
need not say, that I deprecate them, but, notwithstanding
some imprudence, the present rate of interest will con-
tinue. (Hear, hear.) I believe that it depends upon
conditions and circumstances which have never before
prevailed in this conntry—upon natural circumstances and
permanent conditions—and that, if we only act, with to-
lerable prudence, with such advantages as we derive from
a low rate of interest, arising from natural causes, this
country has an opportunity before it of material progress
such as never occurred before to the vision of any states-
man. (Cheers.) The committee will remember that, by
the remission of taxation which I have proposed on. the
part of Government through the measures which I have
attempted to place before them, there will be a reduction
If revenue to the amount of between 3,000,000/. and
1,000,0001. sterling. I shall have occasion hereafter to
place the items more particularly before the houie • but in
the meantime, .I desire not to involve you immediktely in
any large amount of figures. But, by the remission. which I
propose in the. malt tax, there will be a reduction of income
to the extent of 2,500,000/. ; by the reduction on the tea
duties an immediate loss of 400,0001., and ultimately
much more—probably 1,900,000/, and by the reduction in
the hop duty, the revenue from which, as you are aware, is
fluctuating, but the average of Whß•li rdfink may be taken
at 300,0001. I have in fact proposed a reduction to the
amount of something between 3,000,0001. and 4,000,0001.
sterling. But I must remind the committee that although
this is only December, in a few months one of the princi-
pal sources of the revenue of the country will terminate,
and that if they support the propositions of the Government
they must not only encounter this great remission of taxa-
tion, and, consequently, some great diminution of revenue,
but they must likewise be prepared to deal with the
consequences of a law expiring which now gives us more
than 5,000,0001. sterling per annum,—l mean the property
and income-tax. (Hear, hear.) It will become the
duty of the house, then, to decide what they will do
with the property andfincome-tax. (Hear, hear.) Now
it has always been to me, as I am sure it must be to
any gentleman, exceedingly disagreeable to read to the
house anything I may have said on a previous occasion ;
and I am quite sure that nothing would ever inducajme to
do so by way of authority ; but it is absoliitqy necessary
that on the present occasion I should preaume to call the
attention of the house to some remarks which I made on
the subject of direct taxation when I laid before the house
last session my financial statement, more especially as
many gentlemen are now in the house who were not then
members. (Hear, hear.) I then Called the attention of
the house to the difficulty with which the revenue of the
country was raised. I reviewed the objections which were
made to indirect taxes in the shape of Customs' duties and
Excise duties—and lat last showed that, although there
had long prevailed an abstract opinion in favour of direct
taxation, yet all attempts that had hitherto been made to
apply it to the raising of our revenue had only led to the
conclusion that it was contrary to every prince of
science and justice. (Hear, hear.) I then said, speaking
of the committee of the House
of Commons then sitting,
and whose opinion I naturally referred to with reserve, as
they had not then made their report to the house,--I then
said :

" You may remember that, in September last, the sum of
30,000/., heini, the greater portion of the balance of the Irish
Rate-in-Aid Fund, was appropriated by the Treasury to the
liquidation of the debts of certain unions in the west of Ire-
land, subject to the condition that any union assisted in this
. manner would thenceforth be considered as excluded from
the list of distressed unions, and that previously to such re-
lief being recommended, the Poor-law Commissioners must
be satisfied that proper provision would be made by rates for
the future requirements of the union. A report has been
this day received from the Poor-law Commissioners describ-
ing the proceedings taken by them under the above instruc-
tion, from which it appears that all the unions affected by
this arrangement, except the -- Union" (I forbear men-
tioning the name) " have given the assurance and struck the
rates as required, and that the reluctance of the guardians of
the
does not arise from inability, but from a desire to transfer a 'greater share of the burden of their rates to the public."
(Laughter.) I don't wonder at the laughter of hon. mem-
bers, and that is the reason why I did not read the name of
the union. ("Hear, hear," and cries of " Name.")
" This declaration of solvency, in respect to all the re-
maining unions of Ireland about whose power of maintaining
their poor any doubt remained, is a fact of great importance,
and you may think proper to advert to it in your financial
statement. The object of establishing a comprehensive and
complete Poor Law in Ireland has been finally accomplished,
and the whole of Ireland is now able to maintain its own
poor, without external pecuniary assistance from any quar-
ter. There is still a balance of the rate-in-aid left of upwards
of 12,0001., which will be more than sufficient to meet any
more than usually distressed cases of particular electoral
divisions."

_Lear, hear.) Such, then, is a picture of the condition
of Ireland. I don't say it is perfect. Don't let my hon.
friends from Ireland suppose that I am malignantly mis-
representing them, and that I am not doing justice to
their calamrties. All I ask them to admit is, that having
gone through great difficulties and borne them like men,
their position is very much improved. That is all I ask.
(Hear, hear.) But there are other reasons why there has
been some discontent evinced that Ireland has not been
subjected to the income-tax. People are discontented
that instead of getting 410,000/. from Ireland, as was
originally expected, when the property and income-tax
was imposed on this country, they have only got
16,0001. (Hear, hear.) People, too have been not disin-
clined—although I confess it is churlish—to forget the
sorrows and calamities of Ireland; but there are other
complaints of a very different character, with re-
gard to not extending the income-tax to Ireland. (Hear.)
The Governor of the Bank of England has made an official
complaint to me that at the present moment the Bank of
England is prepared to purchase terminable annuities, but
that it is impossible for him to contend with the Governor
of the Bank of Ireland, in consequence of Irish funded
property not paying the income tax. He says, " I have
no doubt the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be receiving
deputations from injured interests, but there is really no
body more unjustly treated by recent legislation than the
Governor and Company of the Bank of England by the
property tax not being extended to Ireland." There is
another point of view in which the subject ought to be
considered. The amount of public funded property in Ire-
land is increasing yearly, and has for a long time increased,
in consequence of its not being liable to the tax which the same
description of property has paid in England. I mention this
to show what a difficult thing an income tax is based upon
exemptions. (Cheers.) Now, Sir, I shall venture to treat
this great exception in the following manner. I do not
think that it would be wise to treat with any harshness the
landed proprietors of Ireland. They have suffered severely
from the late famine, and I should be sorry to pounce on
Ireland and to say " You shall pay your quota." I think
we ought to do everything that is possible to assist
that " wise, just, and beneficial" change that has taken
place in Ireland. (Laughter and cheers.) And Ido not
think that it is expedient that we should throw any ob-
stacles at the present moment in the way of the regenera-
tion of that country. (Hear, hear.) But I must say this,
that, remembering what her Majesty's Governments have
done for that country, I shall feel it my duty, when I lay
before the house my schedule, in which I intend to recom-
mend them to undertake the reconstruction of the new
income tax—l shall recommend them to extend the income
tax to funded property in Ireland, and to salaries in
that country. (Sensation.) Sir, an hon. gentleman a
friend of mind, with reference to this subject, asked me the
other night whether her Majesty's Government were pre-
pared to carry into effect the recommendations of the House
of Lords with regard to consolidated annuities. I have the
opportunity to-night of stating that the amount of consoli-
dated annuities is 240,000/. per annum, or something like
that sum. Sir, the house will recollect how the consolidated
annuities came into existence. There was a-loan made to
Ireland of nearly 10,000,000/. Subsequently that loan was
reduced in amount to about one-half. I was always one
who believed that that loan was in a great degree advanced
for an imperial calamity, and that it ought to be consi-
dered in that light; and I do not object to the arrangement.
then made in any sense whatever. But the house will
understand that the balance of that loan, on being re-
duced by that amount, was thrown into the fern of Con-
solidated Annuities, which were calculated with reference
to the peculiar circumstances of each case. I must refrain
from entering into the discussion of this question, but I
think lam not free to avoid all allusion to the subject. I
have shown to the house to-night that in 1852, as com-
pared with 1851, there has been a diminution in the charge
of poor-rate in Ireland of 274,0001., and that this is a sum
considerably greater than the whole amount of the Conso-
lidated Annuities. (Hear, hear.) And I must beg my hon.
friend who asked me the question to recollect what I have
said with reference to those persons who in England are
suffering from what they consider the unjust incidence of
local taxation. I have show:a that the reduction in the
amount of pauperism is this year greater than the whole
establishment charges, and I tell him also that in con-
sidering this question he must remember that the state

There is another point on which I can speak with more
:rankness in reference to the tax upon property and income.
I have not presumed, and will not presume, to give an opi-
nion upon the justice or injustice of a change in the mode by
which the assessment of permanent and temperate incomes
is effected. But there is a point, I believe, on which the
committee is so unanimous that their opinion need not be a
secret ; and it is also, I believe, the unanimous opinion of the
House of Commons, as.l am sure'it is of the comatry—nainely
that if taxes of this character—if measures of direct taxation
like the income-tax—are to form not tempolury but perma-
nent features of our system of finance, they cannot rest upon
a system of exemptions. Well, but if they are not to rest
upon a system of exemptions, do you augment the methods
to which a Chancellor of the Exchequer may successfully ap-
peal for the purpose of raising revenue ? No doubt direct
taxation is in its theory an easy, a simple; and a captivating
process ; but, when you wish to apply that direct taxation
generally, it is astonishing the objects you encounter and the
prejudices you create. Sir, to my mind—and I think it is a
principle now pretty well established—direct taxation should
be nearly as universal in its application as indirect taxation.
The man who lives in a palace and a cottager, as consumers
are proportionally assessed. It is not perhaps, possible that
in direct taxation you can effect so complete a result—per-
haps it is not necessary ; but that, if your revenue is to de-
pend mainly, or in a great degree, upon direct taxation—if it
is permanently to depend upon direct taxation, you must
make the application of the direct tax general, is to me a
conclusion which it is impossible to escape. No doubt, by
establishing a temporary- measure of direct taxation based
upon a large system of exemptions you may give a great im-
pulse to industry ; you may lighten the springs of industry
very effectually for a time ; but —not to dwell upon the gross
and glaring injustice of a system of finance that would tax
directly a very limited portion of the population-Lbut look-
ing only to the economical and financial consequences of such
a system, who cannot but feel that, in the long run, industry
itself must suffer from such a process ? For, after all, what
is direct taxation founded on a system of exemptions ? It is
confiscation. It is making war upon the capital which ulti-
mately must employ the very industry which you wish to re-
lieve."

of Ireland is much improved since °IV?)
made by the committee
of the House d
hear.) Let me not be misinterpreted. tiol
of her Majesty's Government to considert p ore?
Consolidated Annuities, but they are nss6
themselves in any way by the reconll,,en oser,
mittee of the House of Peers. The 1"°- tsP,
eider that question entirely on its nieritsioto,
self prepared, and I will submit to thesi SII
tions which I have carefully consiless;
believe are justified by the
circurnst°, St'l
beneficial in their operation ; but 1 ueTesioo
not to go away under the false inl Po 41
Government is prepared to carrY
recommendations of --the committee "vi
Lords. With regard to the incense 43 (sisQo
I have laid down one principle—ths"
should be as general as indirect taxation, eel
sure of direct taxation, founded upon siqoo
exemption ought not to be tolerated• d
that important measure, the property
have stated another principle which her to
.Y.
ment are prepared to assert, and that isrecosoo
difference between permanent and Pis
10 e
s
(Loud cheers.) Sir, I will not enter in -(0
upon that subject at present. Althoneees,,
my observations as they have occurred „si slts;"
topics which I have had to encounter, 5'
is much that I must still advert to' tiii„)
would be impossible that I should 'tj 011:s
discuss a subject which deserves, top fill
receive on the part of the House of C°'lB- 000
and mature deliberation. My cl,ailf,go's
exposition of the policy that her P"
are prepared to recommend.; and in 01
do is to place that before the 11°17 ,
ey an`i
manner as I can. Viewing the prelse ce
with reference to the two principles 1 ha toe t. 58
that direct taxation ought to be in its u,9'tote sty
indirect taxation, and that it ought ins"„ssall'
upon a system of exemptions ; and, ses.;s4l
ference should be recognised by the s
siso
realized and precarious income, I Wi", sit's iv/
house the rate of duties such as her .31ses0
„401
are prepared to recommend to the adoption
(Cheers.) Sir, notwithstanding the 10,
ation which her Majesty's Government' "-tisesll
a remission of taxation immediatelyaral tissestil
and eventually relieving the consumer the
greater extent, it is not the intention
eache
to recommend any increase in any of al s 0
property and income-tax. (Loud cheers
sides and state to the committee the sod
we think it is expedient to recognise 3110•141
shall recommend that on all industrial ineoco, s.os
tions shall be limited to incomes below 1,1
being the point at which we consider thatprlpstroi
the calculation; and while we assert PI tbeseii
just, we are prepared to recommennd tus3,lols,'lo
should commence at industrial incomes s'eptill'i
incomes arising from property, we'take,",.
tion at 501. a-year. (Hear, hear.) I,151; °ice :PP
to the house the rate of difference wulcij,P,oo
should be established between schedules h are
the two schedules of realised propertY.,-` nsco:o,
the committee that we do not propose ,'ewill
payable in schedules A and C. ropl
heretofore, at 7d. in the pound. w e lisvo,l I
rate on the other schedules shall be es"!t
fourths of that rate, and therefore 1 es
(which will be exactly three-fourths)'
B, D, and E. The produce of achec of:"
will be, as before, 2,649,0001. The prod'lceti3
the farmers' schedule, will be estimated in
We take the estimates of the profits of farrjois yl
half the rent, as heretofore, but at one""jihsy,
We have investigated that subject, and °f lain active trade may be, the whole tendency 0,3
been to a diminution of profits, and we ar
that the test of the farmers' profits has beelhisi
ilr
(Cheers.) We have taken, therefore, one
the measure of profit, and not one-half ;.,i,6,00j;
under schedule B, the farmers will pay I,s e
exactly one-half what they pay under tv:4
it
From schedule C, I calculate that therehedsYSl
746,0001. at 7d., as at present. Under se myssi
mitigated rate, the estimate is that 1,162,W
ceiyed, and that under E, also, unds,ertsl,V
rate, 248,0001. will be received. The v-4,91
schedules. will be, 'it is estimated, .501
estimate the increase—if the exemption, 11,101/
comes under 501. upon property, and unoe
dustrial incomes—l estimate the increase !teed9
But I think it right to say that in that cierto
taken into consideration the position of theis
has not more than 1001. a-year. The -
is placed, in the manner in which the
is extremely severe, and I nay say Is
He is rated under schedule A at the hi
a Dissenting minister who has 1001.
under the scale of salaries in the mitig,
have an advantage. The position of
fact, the -position of a person working
from the nature of the property from
sources of his maintenance, he is depri
of the mitigated schedule. And, thei
to make special provision for him, berm
assessed under schedule A. I b'
probable diminution from this sours
at 30,0001., but I have taken
and it will not affect the figures
down, of 5,361,0001., as the produce
I add for Ireland the modest sum of 60.
The total sum will be about 5,421,000.
ing, I think I may say that the general
probably the property and income-tax
the average that is produced by the
Perhaps it may be advisable for me to -
some slight diminution but, general);
average will be about that of the last
present tax. And, if the house
proposition, I think the result are
affect our financial income. Assuminl
that the property and income-tax as I
fore the house will not affect our Budg(
now necessary for me to approach the
which the diminution of the revenue oct
sures that I have recommended on ths eve
jesty's Giwernment may be met. It is n ofoi
me, however, before I enter upon that,
and
,
reference to a subject of great interest, anssess4
have increased the public expenditure. V' t,O P
will be my duty on a very early occasiontx
fore the, house a supplementary estimate the
diture of the coming year with reference to
..58,
defences. (Cheers.) It will, of course, be ne'oo,
usual financial statement for 1853-4 .to make slt: sf;
which I shall have to place before the house 4
into consideration the whole expenditure of t? 00 If
therefore that will be the more convenienocv
advert to that subject. I know the great kiske
delicacy 'of touching on a subject of this
cna
my mind the difficulty is much increased, I' aro
cacy becomes much greater, by a prudisqh
of reserve than by speaking to the house wl upOli
frankness with which I should address the,.l.ljt to
formal occasion. (Hear, hear.) Sir, we are au°u os/
no inconsiderable increase to the estisnateBlssAies
be met with the question of peace or war.
tossi
is, that the measures which we are going t° tor
liament, and which we have the confident lloppey ace`
ment will adopt, have nothing to do scithserslP;(elsi,
(Hear.) We should have brought them 1_011..,e,/
any circumstances, and I believe that those '1,1101,0',
ceded us, or those who may succeed us, vOl,l e 0,30'11
same manner. (Hear, hear.) When we eass tiOr
we found the estimates for the year already p,"VesP,e,s9
we accepted them ; and, as there was, a g-sse"ostY
standing that they were the estimates of ourfesi
they were passed without being canvassed,
i 01'111
the progress of public, business was facilitsshjeci
appeal to the people hastened. But the stAtioVV,I
that necessarily engaged the attention of the 7 tb,,,
was one also that must engage the attention ° ty
ment. There was no question what drAtts valve's(
the throne upon the other side of the Ch?sto eshi
not turn upon what may have been said or (woe ?V
that the attention of the nation was drawn tows ore 0i
the national defences. That attention was di's The
by the highest military authority of the land. ratio o
being so long at peace was brought to the atdossite4s
most industrious people in the world. It was see° 1,0
attention while all the tendencies of the as'oe.
those that secure tranquillity and happy of on esori
that there was no panic or precipitation, bust
'tsis
trary, a prejudice against what the people vdllo
supposed to disturb the dreams of repose atbe ;Ai
in which they indulged. But sooner or later keit 0,61
afloat, and seized the public mind. It was ti 0f,80,7
more into consideration, and, totally irresPeculvelnW
circumstances, the nation arrived at the coot
this country was not in that state of defence as 0f1034f.
sirable. Theyarrived at the conviction that itstvl(i (It. s,
importance that the shores of this country sPiete..tcYtt
tected, and that its defence should be cerSissrgi(e,l
hear.) If I were asked, on the part of her to 4,
vernment—in no other way would I Pres/ Oat
opinion—what I thought was the tendency °eBset/ss,
age, and what the general course which Prase, tieltY
stances indicated, I should say without res,hatioei"
rrom the bottom of my heart in all sincerity, '0 OW
the predominant feeling of the present day
peace. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") But I beheld her Majesty's Government are going tos'snofor e
Parliament will tend also to the preserva,ti.v,,,s hsl
hear, hear)—and, on considering this su".1;;, ifo
general election, we felt it to be our au .s'o.s'ssitsl!
time in recommending the necessary utre'',4,
be a fact—and I assume it to be a fact ssa
is our opinion—that this country is "sorltrY
defended, and 'that it wants to be 1:18s. O.AJI the
fended, let due preparation, we say, be thol:lstif
defence. On considering the question, we 00101
best thing .-was to do it completely. IN es tsis,e),
best thing to do would be to put the navy' 0' 0 105 Kill
in the position which we believe all Englishinefe
see it in—(hear, hear)—and the plans we itioll`
and which, if the house will support our proP tsposjoys
be carried into complete effect, will be p1an.5,.(1 "08t,„0
settle this question of national defence for eves all
of (hear, hear)—that is to say, you will have asd, si/Sos
sends and strong points in the kingdom defen Ise fibs los
will have a real Channel fleet, which can assq is !is
different rendezvous when necessary, and 'whlt sso,n;ferhejf
per garrison and protection of the country. tto °8
been convenient for her Majesty's Governmenl sob flotis
question, as they would, if they had not felt the ,
re iies' (11 paramount duty to bring it at once bele efts is ,00
of Commons. They were busied with„ 11)e ,)30;11,'
tendency of which, they believe, will 401° iot)
time to reduce the expenditure and the e' 809
of the country. But they felt that it ri3looVeis
impossible to mix up a question of this hulsion,sor, 'l'So
from its nature, of such urgency, with queeouu% tctO
ministrative reform. They felt that, if the,.ejsesl /0.1,
not properly defended, aqua if the people cits;Ys''
properly defended, the stion was one Which
veis,;;
once to be completely and definitively.settle co to
taken those steps which we believe will insure:tor sahe ebe
defence of this country. It will be necessaryJl not of
.5,
for a supplementary estimate. I hope therelesill
sateCo
difficulty raised on ,the part of the house. 1.-;,`,,,esfe'rese(o
finances, as I shall show in a few minutes, wipotfthe flea
thorise me in asking a supplementary grantesns slot, 0
year, to be supplied from the ways and ';'s :„:10 Yossg
year we shall ask your approval of an ists:,ll. inep
increase our general estimate about 600,1juv:sk its f,'s fe:l,
the committee that it will be my duty td°,..nre of fit,{
a supplementary estimate of the expen
on Ast_s,,Vorot
which has occurred since the ApproPpaticao aurNia rot
r think it will be convenient if give spies, 011(4.
the state of the finances, so that the constarl. the ent.tro
an opinion as to what our surplus will Ir at o.:ajt!,ll
present financial year, from which the
0r tTe'exSe,'lo P:5,1
afforded for the supplementary estimate! 701,00
otrelitio
of the year since the appropriation. The
when ,000,
recollect that in the early part of the yeal.
_id the
to estimate what would be the surplus, -I-Ztevic.l,l.
would be 460,0001., but, in
making that :sss,„„nsfst.: so, d'
nounced my intention of asking a vote t 4.7,sorn'stj
tional for the Kafir war. The committee 74,12
collect that on a subsequent occasion I cans uv

L 0/ .7;:o, Lo 0,
.e pow' -s Dal,
he
unfair. ‘3,10,,
highest st gbera
il
/.
[crated seh .4011
(7f a cle
be
...
4_0.. for se
,0
Lwd
f"e
rive ° i 5
erefore he al 0.1
cause
s,i;„
have e ijl
Ceundetis
that IDI b 9
which iD
:e of the
60,0001' 01
O. Gene 41'1'
Ed result
x will sbsA
Present e fig
InakePl
,rallY fl'?
st three . a 41,1
should,
Dui(' n°4lo
have 116414i'
get of tbeple?
Si.
wayseJlbl
,
3CitSlOllOO/ 11.'1
he p3rte,„'
.v,,