The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-20 00:00:00

EVENING, MARCH.

THE SUN,

LONDON,

. ,
- ,
frr the outrage. A claim had, therefore, , been made I tended, and that Hon. 'Gentlemen opposite had taken'for
upon the Tuscan .Government for, comp, nsation.• sold it their mott
"o-
Unus qui nobii minctoncto restituit rem."
was hoped that the claim would he freely met. No demand ! •
had been made upon Austrie, but the Faraiatt-offiee 'nod i He believed that they were about to motile race, and that
reason to believe that Austria would be quire ready to. Derby, knowing his cattle to be rather devoid
the Earl of
of speed, but ale-le to go through a great deal of dirt, was
support the claim -th et bee been made in Tusceuy.
• Mr, ANS rEY gave notice that on Monday he should about to try what .was known as a "waiting" race.-
ogcreinciples were old though
lin that
aughitter.)
by
hoped,t hrever, they would not be gulled
put another questioe to the Rght Hon. Gent!, mae on
this very subject, namely, whetr'er it was the intention theyl themwsaCYlveYs awPearre.yneww i'nee He trusted they were
of Government to ute their good officee to. obtain the not going to vote the estimates Wit•h the Protectionists in
withdrawal of all the Austrian troops from the Italian power, who, -on the very first occasion, would either pro-
pose a fixed duty or make the public payi n some shape er
States,-(A laugh.)
construction t itohne of
demure the ADJOURNMENT OF THE. HOUSE. ' . other.-(Hear, hear.) He- begged the House to ..look for
r G oneen
tail :mmeenn t 0
paptp s
ithete,Mloinoikstroefo,offillooinal.
It was then agreed that the Howse at its rising shouldhad
adjourn until Monday liext.
. • men, but they bad been heard speaking in the. House and
SUPPLY. out of the House-at clubs -at dinners - . and at great gather
The House then resolved it,eti into a Committee of ings of farmers in Drury-lane. -He remembered once going.
Supply; Mr. BERNAL in the chair. • inrog.-( Laughter -w'
) win he heard the Earl of Malinee-
Mejor BERESFORD said he would ask the House to bury make a most ferocious Protectionist speech, and :when
show him a little torbearacce on this occasion, as she es- the Chowlers and Jowlers congratulated the meeting .sod
tiniates which it was his duty to brine for ward- wore not the speakers on the greatprinciples of their .cause; which
of his preparing. He brought tor werd the estimates of unless carried into effect,- the British' lion would
cease to
the Tatra Government, but he considered there was arnele exist.- ( Loud laughter.) '
) .Was the question, then, .ot pro-
reason for asking the House to sencion those votes which section to be cushioned, or was- the thimble-rig to be
had been thus prepared. He begged the House would practised? The farmers were beginning to find out ovlio
bear with bias as ho was, suffering just now from severe were their real friends; and if they ready .history at all
- (Laughter)-they would call to mind a certain Lord.
indisposition. The House were aware that the army es- Stanley and his conduct on a celebrated occasion-that
tirnates comprised 17 votes, all having reference to Lord Stanley who was so profuse of his . expression of
different branches of the service. It was his mien- attachment and friendship to Richard . 111., and whose
tion to go over the 17 votes, and it would then bi- conduct Hume described as so equivocal that both:
seen that the most important vote was for an increased parties werpuzzledat his proceedings; for he had ar
e
number of men, and the charges necessary to pay-
ranged matters so nicely that he was prepared to join either
that increased number. The first vote was for the land eid
e•-(Renewed laughter• ) He thought the farmers.might
p
forces; the number of men asked was 101,937, which was refer to that eriod, and ask themselves, whether the same
3,232 over the number f0r.1851-2. The charge for the proceedings were not about to be practised by the Earl of
l was 3,602,0671., being 80,9971. more the!, last Derby in 1852, which his disloyal and treacherous Leicester
land force
year. The 'text vote was fur staff 169,607 L, being. 9,675/. practised in .148e.-(Cries of "Oh.") .The thing was
more than last year. The next vote for- public a in the blood, and might come out. He wished to know
epart-
whether they Were prepared to pin the Earl of Derby to
manta, 95 957/., being 3,2101. more than last
year. Next 1,18 statement of last year. If they were not prepared to do
the Royal C
e Military ollege. 17.1411., being 240/.
than last year. Next-vote, Royal Military more
so, then, he repeated, the country might rest assured .the
Asylum, Ar.
-ei, thimble-rig would be brought into to play.-(Cheers.) The
17 '5361 beinig , , , 4804 less than lastlrar. Next vote, the term had been applied. by that Noble Earl himself to the
84,004 for vd unteer corps, being '''
,0001, more Government of Earl: Grey, which, at all 'eyelets,. was open
last year. • The other vete se consistseta of rewards fur in its policy. With respect to the . present Cabinet, he
military service,
15,6431. Army pay of general officers, thought they might be called an amalgamated society- of
61,0001; this latter 9,000/. more than last year. chairman of quarter sessions.-(A laugh:) There were there
next votes would be, .fOr full pay for retired offi The
teen gentlemen leagued together-differing. in many .things,
50,0001.; half-pay and' military allowances, 365,0°0e0r18, '
but agreed in one-to raise the pricerif bread.to the poor map,
foreign halts lieu, 36,9161.; widow? pensions, 119,387 i.;• --(Cheers, and cries of "Oh,' from the Ministerial elle.)
If Hon: Gentlemen were consistent,: such . would be their
compessiOnate allowance'.; 83,0001; in-pensions. 28,8151.; policy, but he had a suspiCion that they intended to. throw
out-pensions, 1,236,8031 ;and superannuation allowance,
the farmers overboarde-(Hear. bear.) Like his ancestor in
37,5001, exhibiting a decrease on the various' items ot the time of. Richard 111. the Earl of Derby had appealed to
38,2521. The effntive terviee would require 3.986,3081, the clergy--evidently., '
.. in . the hope that he ,might be able
The non! t ifective 2 Q 24 0 '4l The real '
~. , , b . cause of the to govern without protection, and that the people would
increase was owing to the Kafir war. The estimates', us he support him because he supported _the- Church of England
Kafir
stated, were formed by his predecessor, and, in his principles. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the
opinion, they proved that his desire watt •to maintain Exchequer had been consistent.- The Right Hon. Gentleman
the
had always stated that ..the government ought to .be con-,
efficiency of the service and the' credit_of .the country. ducted on, the territorial principle, and that .the Govern-
The estimates seemed to have been framed with a desire merit had been constituted on that principle. .There Were
to pi-emote economy-an example which it would be 13 . *roisters-either , •representatives of great territorial
his duty to fellow. He' conaidered it was - necessary to
possessions,
sions,or of agricultural constituencies. These 13-a
look strictly into every just and. legi
timate expense. He dozen-were leagued-leagued together for the.
bad in the earliest clays
.of his manhood had the honour purpose of putting a tax on the poor man's
_bread.-(Oh.),
of sere-gig her Majesty abroad, arid he had found oar Let the House consider- how the rest of the 1. vrnran e
that there were two kinds of economy, a proper and a. was constructed. There were seven conntY.Meinberswehot
legitimate economy , and a paltry economy, or CCOnOMS represented exclusively agricultural constituencies. There
of a peney.wise and pound foolish character.. Ho had were ten of those who had the -smallest constituencies in. the
country. To take theM alphabetically, there was A -
learned that though exravagance might be injurious to Abingdcn-represen ed by the Attorney-General, whose
the country, that a false economy was more mischie• constituents numbered only 320, and to whom he had pro-
your, because it impaired the efficiency of a service so fond were they of him-that he would never pre-
which, whatever inteht be said, had always upheld the sentins,d
himself to them again.-(Laughter.) The
Right, Hon.
honour and dignity of the country in s way which, it it and Leaned Gentleman told them that he
would
did not excite gratitude, ought to provoke admiration, them again. [The Attorney-General-" No''it
The go t 0
Right.
Tha', paltry end dangerous economy he_ hoped he shbula Hon. Gentleman might have some legal quibble in reserve,
never practise.-(Biter.) As far as the various depart but did he mean to say that he would go to Abingdon at
were concerned, he would endeavour to make the
merits the next election? The next place was Chichester. Was
service efficient, tied at the same time to secure the corn- the Member for that town the representative of a populous
constituency?ie Ilid not "Dod" tell them that the Duke of
forts of the British so!dier. He begged to move the Rh m na's influence in that borough was paramount? So
first vote of 101 937 m. U. , in Buckingham-the
_influence of the Duke of Buckingham
Mr. W. WILLIAMS objected to the proposed in- was paramount. Then there was the Secretary for
crease of the army, and protested that there was the • Colonies, with a c • onstituency of 500. The
no necesoty for it. The fears which, had re next was the Right Honourable the President of
ceutly prevailed in the country about ' foreign the Board of Control, the nominee of Lord Exeter.
luviotion were greondless, and be hoped the Com. -(01).) Did any Hon. Member presume to contradict
mittee would. hesitate before they sanctioned this in- "Deo ?"- (A laugh.) It was notorious that Lord Exeter
owned the greater part of the 10/. houses in Stamford.. With
creased expense to the Scitte.-(Hear.) Cho country bad
the benefit of an efficient navy and marine service
trhegsaiticlontso thehtle Home Secretary, he thought he should be in
including a fine body of constabulary and yee- him returnede, whatever
fur t a
ver plaoe he represented, but hoped to see
more important place than Mo •
lhurst, with
manry cavalry force ; ' arid these. ' added to the only 300 electors, and under the infl e
replier army, made an aggregate force of mont and Digby. These ten Membersrea•
re of Lords Lords
representa-
upwardsEgre-
of 191,000 men. Surely, then, that tome tivts:of only 3,020 voters. Honourable Gentlemenopposite
was amply sufficient to protect the. country against the had no right to ask for confidence as popular representatives.
attacks of any invader; but he was sick and tired of For his own part he regretted that a direct vote of want of
was a complete bugbear. confidence had not been moved. He had no confidence in the
talking about inversion; it .
At all events, .fihould it ever turn out to have even the Ministers. He believed they had none in themselves. If they
had, why cid they not declare the principles which they
shadow of a luuedation, the force he had juer, de-
professed in opposition now that they had been placed in
scribed would be found quite enough to go into the field
power by the onpardonable weakness-of the Noble Lord.-
with.-(Heur,hear.)
- , (Hear, hear) , Forbearance had been asked behalf '
Mr. B. OSBORNE said that under any other circum- their law reforms. Lord St. Leonard's was not on
allviolent °I
law
stances than those which existed he should have apologised reformer when a Member of that Hoe but s a bigotted
for the course he was about to take, The House and the Tory, and opposed every measure fuseful reform. As re-
spected the legal members of the Government, the House
country were, however, placed in so unprecedented a con-
ought not to forget that the lawyers were the first who de-
dition that he did not feel warranted in allowing the vote
serted Sir Robert Peel ; for deserted that statesman was,
to pass as a mere matter of course. From the answer given "In his utmost need,
to-night by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the Noble
.By those his former bounty feed."
Lord the Member for the city of London it did not appear
-(Cheers and oh.) Law reform might he purchased too
that matters in that House were in a more clear or more
9early, and he was not prepared to sacrifices - free trade to
satisfactory state than they were in . on. Friday night last.
It-
(Hear, hear.) His opinion was. that neither men nor
He was one of those Members who dissented from the courseBSe
money should be granted till the Ministry declared their
taken by the Noble Lord the Member for London in throw-
principles.-(Hear, hear.) So much for the English ap-
ing up the government in the way he had done. It was pointments. He should not make any allusion to the Secre-
uofair, merely because a local militia,. led by a foreign tary at War, for he was not in a position to make any
general, had accidentally defeated the Noble Lord, that answer.-(" Hear, hear,". from Major Beresford, and " I'll'
great principles should be endangered by minor diffe-
answer any question.") If there was one appointment more'
rences of opinion. He thought the Noble Lord had
than another which would disentitle the Government to'
acted also 'unadvisedly in naming the Earl of Derby as
common respect it was that of the Secretary at War.- (Oh.),
the only man fit to govern the country, when there were After the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman at the bust-'many other Noble Lords and Gentlemen quite as able to
ings, when he told the people plainly he, did not care for
form an Administration, which would be more entitled
to the support of the Liberal party, and more popular them, he thought he was not entitled to represent a populous,
constituency. With regard to the Irish appointments, he,
with the country generally. He therefore dissented from
calling Lord Derby to the councils of ,her Majesty, and certainly rejoiced that there was no Irishmen in the Cabinet,
putting the powerful but dangerous party on the benches becausecht that would have been productive of unlimited mis-•
to Ireland. If there was to be a Lord Lieutenant
opposite. He thought that an. amalgamated party might at
all, probably the late appointment was. as good' a ape AB
easily have been formed, which would have preserved free could haveh been made ;abut but when he looked to the appoint
trade and effected useful reforms. But now that Lord Derby ments which had .been made he had not much confidence
and gentlemen opposite were really in office, he thought
on that eed.. The appointment of Mr. Lefroy to the bench
they were bound to tell the House and the country on what was most
tenscii.sievous, and a man most opposed to the•sys
principles they intended to conduct their Government. He
did not, therefore, think the present an unfitting occasion tam ofr nwahinonhaededucation had been selected as chaplain. Dr:
the
the Right Hon. Gentleman at the
again to endeavour, to worm from the Hon. Gentlemen on
lastelectionge f
the .other,side what the principles were on which they.in- 0r he University of Dublin, was one the most
implacablei_• bigotslreland.-(Hear,
against the Roman Catholic religion in
tended to conduct the government of the country. What-
ever odium ,rested on the late Government, he must say- re atnsdbe(chilefare, hear.) With regard- to the legal appoint_
be was not one of their flatterers-athey had at least meats,
for the Right that he entertained a feeling of great re-
andthe virtue of being above-board in the expression of their efllreland, but his than.
dislike Gentleman the Attorney-General
.of._ the Roman Catholic religion
policy, and bad declared to the House and the people, the Was notorious, and he could not. not be expected to possess
principles by which they were guided. Their successors the confidence of
Peop-e. . The sooner the Right
were a party of gentlemen who had monopolised to them- Hon. Gentleman was.elevated to seat on the bench the bet-
selver the name of the Country party. They pretended to ter• With regard to the Solicit9r-General he confessed that for '
be more English than the English themselves. They were him. also be had great respect. But• in that Howe the Hon.
now in power, and by. a. species of mystification were endea- and Learned Gentleman
vouring to conceal, the cloven foot of protection under the and his .speeches
out of. the House deprived him of
smock frock of official reserve.-(A laugh.) Was that the confidence of the Irish people: Then, . there was their
honest and open? , Was it not rather what might-even
Secretary r
Parliamentarily-be celled a most shuffling and dishonest sun)
ooanott(Se ' the Treasury (Mr. G.. A. Hamil.
r representative .of .the ...University of
course for statesmen to pursue? He aid not observe the '
Dublin.-
Now he (Mr. Osborne) should ,say that any Go-
Chancellor of the Exchequer in his place-a-(Mr. Disraeli
vernment that
repre-
entered the House shortly afterwards)-but he thought the
sentatives of theNUB SO . as
unfortunate.
to have two
proper time bad arrived when the Right llon. Gentleman niversity of Dublin amengst its prominent
members
could Rot be entitled, considering the opinions which
ought to tell them whether he meant to prop oee the question
'
of protection in any shape-either as a fixed duty, or by ‘ prevailed;in that university,
people. He saw
glary in the shape cfecompensation to the landed _ the Noble Lord the First Commissioner of
some tug woods and Forests t Lord J. NT
interest. As a Member of a liberal constituency he found _ , Manners smiling ; that Noble
Lord had ever }•
fault with the elevation to power of the Right Hon. 3 reason to smile, because his own oetical
noprophecyh
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, nor did he th ad come to.pass, and commerce was at a discount,
mean to throw iu the teeth of Hon. Gentlemen opposite while e
had heard
old nobility, had got it, all their own way. They
that they were new and untried men. He was ptetty well of the Administration of "-all the talents," and he .
•no great conjuror after dared say that posterity would remember the " Administra-
convinced, however, that it required tion of all the squires" in the year 1852.-(Hear, hear.) But,
all to be a Minister of State, and that if a man had moderate
for his part, he cid l not wish to see in office men whose con-
abilities, a respectable character, and great attention, he
victions would run counter to their actions; and he could not
might, even though a chairman of quarter sessions, be, if
help stating that, ifwere to give any support to the pre7
he had fixed principles, as well qualihel for office as' any
sent Government, it be
other man. But be that as it might, no one ceuid doubt
werefalse to their own professions. Of one of their number
that Ron. Gentlemen ought to declare the principles on
-the Rig ht H.on Gentleman the Secretary for the Colonies.
which their Government was fo As a Member of
-he should say unded. • that he believed him to be' honest in his
a Liberal Constituency, be repeated, that he rejoiced at
professions, sincere In his convictions, and incapable in his
the elevation of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chan-
actions. It was on these grounds that he moved the rejec-
cellor of the Exchequer. That-Right lion. Gentleman .
turn. of that vote. -( Cheers.)
had had a hard game to play. He bad achieved his present
Mr. WHITESIDE said that, in consequence of the re-.
position by no aristocratic connexion, and not without
marks which had been Amide by the Hon. Member for Mid-.
some dislike and even distrust of those who had supported
dlesex as to the legal. appointments of the Earl of Derby, he
him. It was that Right Hun. Gentleman who had breathed'
felt it to be his duty to rise. He was not certain whether,
into the party opposite some spirit, some life-a galvanic
his Hon, Friend fancied that he was a proficient 'in the Hoe
sort of life, to be sure-but without his genius they never
called•ironical; but he had his doubts whether the speech,
would have been what they were or where• they were.-
which they had, just -heard was conceived eiactiy in that
(Rear, hear.) He rejoiced in the elevation of the &gist Hon.
severe taste, ;and with that polished sarcasm, which he (Mr.
Gentleman, because it was a tribute to intellectual superiority Whiteside) would have thought most suitable to that House.
unconnected with any aristocratic party of England.-(Op-
-(Cheers, )He reverenced genius where he Met it-he ad-
position cheers.) He regretted, however, that the Right
mired eloquence where he heard it-but he thought he couid
Hon. Gentleman had not, in addition to great ability, shown
distinguish - between the, divine original, and the miserable
more openness and frankness. He.could not forget the elo-
imposition,-(Great cheering.) The Hon. Gentleman had.
anent audacity and the fluent acerbity-to borrow ex pres-
criticised severely the present Ministry, on account of the
alone of the Hon. Member for Bridport-with which the
legal appointments which it had made in Iteland, and which.
Right Hon. Gentleman had pursued the late lamented Sir
he said did not deserve and had not obtained the confidence
Robert Peel.-(Hear, hear.) He could not forget the ora- of he Roman Catholic eels' , rather, as he Understood,
lions which the Right Hon Gentleman made on different.
theot Roman Catholic; •P priesthood.
the
occasions, and regretted that he had not acted up to his own Now its . whole -.course .of his life he never uttered:a,
opinions and been more explicit on this. What was the lan- sentiment, to , his knowledge,
offensive to the Roman C'
Page used by the Right Hon. Gentleman five years ago? , - , - hadnot . , Cap.
• tiaolic people. He
to 1845 the Right Hon. Gentleman rising with his subject, being a sincere Protestant, holding firmly the dottrines of
as-he a
always did, declared that if we were to have a popular the Reformation, disqualified him from _office, he - -and his
Government, •
ise pane it should declare the principles on -which Hon. Learned Friend the present Attorney-Geteral for
and
Right a was founded.-(Cries of," near, hear.") ,
The Ireland, ' in common with many, more lon.. Gentlemen in,
had at Ou.
• Gentleman then went on to state, that they that House, must for ever be debarred frein the pursuit of
that time
bamboozled on a great political middle-man-a man who an honourable • b. t" •
am i ion.,-(Loud cheers.) . •If the Hon (den,:
a position and plundered another, and who ob- -that •ought to be placed • --- '
tleman meant no man
that .
• they site to which he was not entitled, and cried out `could refuse justice to the. Roman Catholics of Ireland-
tenure.-(Rear.)
Now
no party questions, but fixity of administer impartially
who would refuse to
joined in the. chorus of_
however the Right II
, on. Gentleman • laws that might be in existence in that country, or re.,
cried, out that there Shot!. what. he deprecated in 1845. and Just .
.any useful measure that might be pre.
fuse to co-operate in .a
of tenure.-(Hear.) etlide beu° Party questions but fixity good of that '
pared by patriotic men forb. the
dally bound to come forward and
Hon. Gentleman watt ape- him that no such man ought to be
Whiteside) agreed ..witth
Government. It did not redound
duedAsclare the principles of hepublic affairs in Ireland.- (Hestr; •
men that two or three gentlemen,
whtoo the credit of public appointed to ardineirsfecertip
y understand an Hon.' Gentleman,
given notices of motions reversive efaafew weeks ago had hear") lie
could
convictions himself an regarded religi-
policy, and on the subject of the national Particular part a who bad no d
) satirising
those Who .had, but he
out opinions-(Cheers ---s .
of
this
tion, should now ge:, up on the opposieeeZrea of educe- there was in the constitution
that though their convictions were unaltered, land declare wanted to know what
Protestant of unspotted character
intend to bring forward the motions of whiche,y did not country to disqualify any .
office ?;Did
holding ; tae proe.,
Such
given notice when in Opposition. course , they had and competent ability from;
Might be' a fession of the. Protestant 'religion disentitle him to the
cunning one for men who looked for a fixity of tenure, but' Just consideration his S • overeign 1-rear.) So fat from
for Ministers it was shuffling in the last degree, and. Whhavie of .
f 1 ount men he
offended his Roman Catholic h
tow-c h ry
the people of the country would regard as the good old= had ttrigist h libert 'and,
fashioned amusement of thimble-rigging-(A laugh)._. life were to say his justification,
at ve
welt()
wasy then i
that game was about to be played by the country gene- addressing thes lye, the • humble individual.
selectedß
by 0-
e was more than once
men, with Lord Derby as their confederate. and the- man Catholic Gentlemen - Loud cheers.)
public as usual were to be gulled and plundered, while the He Was not wen. emen to defend, both. (
at he hid abused the trust thus
Noble Lord and his confederates in smock frocks were play- reposed in' bi,....,4.reath ear.) . And he could &Mire t. e
ing the game.-(Laughter). The state of things was such Hon' Gentleman that he b•
he had the h e would rather strip the gown which
that the Gentlemen opposite were bound to speak out. Lie -sonour -to wee f '
naback, than drag it
knew that the reply would be that the opposition was fac- through the mire of faction, r°
-(Cheers) The Hon. Gentle-
tious.-( Ministerial cheers.) Echo answered there.-(A Fr?on had .eulogised the' Irish.
~ overnment., appointments of the last
laugh.) He was not, however, to be discouraged by that -t* Now he (Mr. White
beenar as Ireland was concerned, the
late'sid). must sap that, as
cry, for he had been lenough in the House to know that I
long
the cry of. a factious opposition was raised whenever Gentle-
men opposite were contradicted. He cared little for what a' Small by degrees, and beautifully less."
but
in that House thought of his duct • con , Sir Robert. Peel was excluded b --(A laugh.) Every man that held
the opinion of the late
Hon. Members
y them from Al
he cared a great deal for what the public out of doors thought c
onservative was also excluded. -(Hear, office. Every
of it.-(Laughter from the Ministerial side.) He was sure (neer,
to which the Hon. and Learned Member f hear.) ' The party
he should not stand worse with his constituents-(Renewed or Athlone (Mr.
\ nameslieogh) belonged was likewise excluded. Gentlemen
laughter from the Ministerial side).-he knew they would emen whose
were never before heard in the Irish '
thank him for having its offered-what Hon. Gentlemen opposi
raised seats by the late Government.
called a factious opposition to their .un. rinci led conduct. ! with respect to the chief legal appointments of Lord Now,Derby
He doubted whether there ever was an occasion of a Govern- in Ireland-that of the Lord Chancellor-he spoke the •
mont coming into power without giving some intimation of vita:ece
of his profession when he said it was an appointment
what they intended to do as regarded the principlesthey
. „ met with their entire approbation.-(Hear, sear.) The
held when in opposition.-(Hear.) Whatever
he n?ignb same could be said with respect tothe •
,appointment
feel at such a state of things, his alarmwas not diminished Baron Lefroy to the Chief-Justiceship of the Queen's Bench.of
when he found Lord Derby-the R
Rupert of, debate--assume
. It had been said that the conduct of Lord Derby, • in accept-
the character of a Fabius Cunctator. - (A laugh.) eared
from the nature of the man that some
t, ing office and refusing to appeal to the country on th
mischief 'WM in- restiou of protection until such measures as he conceived.

_~.,

SATURDAY

tens, and of Hon. Gentlemen on the Ministerial side of the
House.-(" No, no," from Mr. B. Osborne.) Well, excepting
the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
whose brilliant talents neither'he nor any other Hon. Gentle-
man could Sully--4 Hear, hear)-'-it struck him that Hon.
Gentlemen. opposite were not a little annoyed at the unani-
mity that prevailed on the Ministerial side of the. House.-
(Laughter from the Opposition.) It 'would appear so, sa
they availed themselves of every opportunity fo fling brands
into their ranks; but it would require a great -deist More
talent • and 'exertion ' than they possessed .to . affect their
L stability end' strength.' (Ministerial cries of " hear.")
r The Hon: "Baronet who 'had just sat down woulde he hoped.
excuse hire for 'advising him not to speak of persons. and
properties' Witlfont having Pretiiobsly made himself ; ac- •
quainted with the facte.-( heals). The Hon. Baronet
had asserted that the- property of a noble relative of his
t(the 'Earl 'or Mardi) bad suffered no diminution by reason
of the ethe late Sir -Robert Peel, . Now, .he was not
thenabout' to' winder into- a corn-law debate, as the present
*as hot a .'proper time- but Ite ,• begged td tell the Hen.
Baronet that hot _only was the property' of .his Noble: Rela-
tive 'in the south of England dirtnnuthedin the rent toll, but,
also that in the north of Scotiands.4laear, .hears froni' the
Ministerial betiches.) Toe Hon. Baronet wielied to know
" what *Ai Protectionist." 'Mst; being nei her a member
Of the 'Ministry, nee at'disappointed candidate fur office, he
wonld'give hint' a solution of the interrogatory. . His (the
Earl' of March's) definition of a "Protectionist", was thi
and It *mild be warmly respoeded to by the farming in-
terests-a Protectionist -Was a warm and cordial isupporter
•the Governmeat of which Lord Derby was the head, because
that 'S'oble Lord would uphold the dignity of the Crown,
'and promote the happiness of all classes of her Majesty's.
subjects.-(Cheers.) •
Mr. COBDEN said the'definition of a Protectionist. given
by the Noble Lord who had just sat down had somethiugin
'it. Whatever may be the opinion of that House there would
be two opinions in the country as to whother'that was the
interpetratiOn heretofore put on the word " Protectionist"-
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, he hoped, would allow them,
'tor carry out the conclusion inevitable from his definition,
arld by thus converting the' name of Lord Derby into pro-
testion, it was clear they were to consider themselves then:
wider 'a Protectioniat" Government-(s:leer,' hear.) That
'saved hid ( Dlr. Cobden) a great-deal of argument. , They
heard it avowed hythe Noble Lord that they were dealing
wrath a Protectionist Government; and that was his case.-
(Pear, hear.) Now; the question before the House.was,
• whether or not they would -vote that Protectionist Govern-
Ment supplies. It was an old and constitutional practice in
!other countries as well as in England, that the majority of
'the representative body governed the country. He therefore
bbgged to ask the Noble Lord who had just stood forward
oh Protectionist principles to ask a free-trade Parliament to
vote supplies---he asked that Noble Lord-could he deny that
I.that Free-trade Pailiament was digressing from' its duty in,
at all eventes pausing before they gave their confidence .to a
I Government based in direct antagonism to tbe great majority .
in that -House?-(Hear, hear, from .the Opposition.) But ,
, fide-trade prineiplesavere, numerically, in an overwhelming
Majority if both sides of the House were examined.-(Hear.)
The present debate was opened by an Hon. Member for one
Of the metropolitan counties (Mr. B. Osborne), perhaps the
most populous and wealthy county in the United Kingdom.
tie was shpported by the Hun. Member for Marylebone,
Another large and populous 'district. He (Mr. Cobden), the
representatiVe of the West Riding of the great county of.
'Yorkshire, supported that Hon. and' Gallant Member also,
and was fully sustained in so doing by the great population
hf• that extensive , and- wealthy district: Then there was
South Laneashire next in importance, together with Man-
chester and Glasgow; and, therefore, Hon. Gentlemen on
the Ministerial side of the House were not alone in a nume-
rical minority, but in a very insignificant minority, seeking
the confidence of the majority.-(Hear, hear.) The contro-
versy had been raging fourteen years. It was some fourteen
7' ears since the first meeting of the Anti:Corn-law League
was held in Manchester. The agitation lasted some seven
years, and some six years had • elapsed since the question
!was settled by that House. What was. the conduct of
!the party opposite? He asserted the origin of the party
topp6;ite was protection. There were Hon. Gentlemen on
;the Opposition side of the House, on the question of free
;trade against protection, who were friends of the Monarchy,
?friends of the Church, and friends of the aristocracy-gen-
tlemen who were as high Conservatives as Hon. Gentlemen
on the Ministerial benches.-(Hear, 'hear.) Could such be
• denied in the case of the Hon. Members for the Universities
of Oxford and Cambridge? Therefore, he asserted, Hon.
Gentlemen opposite stood there as a Protectionist party.-
. Wear, hear.) It was the only question on which they were
constituted a party-( Hear, - hear) - and therefore he would
' not allow them to fall back on the Chancery reform and pa-
tent law amendment, in which all were as interested as the
Hon.' Gentlemen themselves.-(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Cob-
den) did not call on Hon. Gentlemen opposite to decide what
the course to be adopted by-the House should be. Neither
did he ask the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer
to 'declare what course he would take. He would appeal to
the majority of that House to decide what the course should
be.-(Cheers from the Opposition.) If a minority in that
House were to govern the Houses on the same principle they
might be governed by a dictator.-(Hear, hear.) He there-
, tore appealed to the House to vindicate itself, and make itself
felt in the policy now to be pursued.-(Oppositien cheers.)
He thought the present occasioa a fitting one ; and he there-
fore called on the majority of the House to vindicate its con-
stitutional privilege.-( Opposition cries of " Hear, hear.")
When they came to vote the money he hoped the majority
would have sufficient vigour and firmness to take the reins
into their own hands, and by keeping in their hands, except
for a limited period,. the control over the public purse--
(Cheers.) It might be asked why call upon the Parliament
to dissolve now? Where-were the indications that a disso-
lution was required? He 'appealed to what was going on in
the country. It showed that there was no difference out of
doors as to the course which the majority ought to pursue.
From one end of the country to the other they were in all
the heat and excitement of a contested election at the pre-
sent moment.-(0h, and laughter.) They could not take
up a daily newspaper that they did not find two columns of
it filled with accounts of election proceedings. Those pro-
ceedings were not confined to his side of the House. The
Hon. Gentleman the Member for Hereford, who had been
recently sent into that House to settle the question, had
talked upon every subject but it. The Honourable and Gal-
lant Member for Windsor had also told them that the country
was all in the heat of an election contest; and why? Be-
cause the interest of the country had brought it to this con-
clusion, that the majority in that House would deal with the
question and would not permit the public money to be voted.
He maintained that they could not attempt to carry on the
legislation of the country, and that brought him to another
consideration. They could not carry it on, it was imposeis
ble, while the Government was only supported by a mino-
rity. They had already heard one Hon. Gentleman say that
they evaded the question; that they were in a minority, and
meant to postpone it for the present;; that they did not mean
to deal with it. Why, that principle pervaded 'the whole
of the proceedings of the House. There were Committees
on education and other important questions; but did
any Hon. Gentleman ' named enter upon those Commit-
tees' with the idea that he could • deal with them during the
present Parliament? Did anybody doubt that, within two
or three months, those proceedings- must be brought to a
close ? Seeing that out of doors everybody was prepared-
seeing that no satisfactory business could be carried on, they.
were bound' to ' bring the question to a satisfactory close by
the constitutional powers vested in them. Even in that
evasive course which Hon. Gentlemen opposite were now
pursUing they were still placing themselves on such ground
.as mould render them as much in antagonism with them atl
ever.' The Right Hon. Gentlenian the Member for Bucki
was preparing, with the' assent of a large number of his
friends, to' evade the question of protection but he told
them that he only changed his ground. -He proposed to
give the agricultural interest an indemnity for the lossei
they had sustained' by the withdrawal of protection under
another forth, and then he shadowed out a plan by which
he' proposed to transfer some of the taxes borne by the
agriculturists to the shoulders of those who did not happett
to be the possessors of land. He asked whether that wait
notbeing in the same position of antagonism as before?
He asked what was to be done with the Anti-Corn-law
League ?-(Laughter and cries of " Oh, oh.") If the Right
Honourable Gentleman was only shifting his ground-If that
League had compelled him to take his hand out of one of the
pockets of the public, he was now attempting to pu: it in
another. He trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would see
the necessity of allaying this strife and agitation. When he
talked of indemnifying the agricultural classes for the lossels
they had sustained, he could assure the Right Hoaourable
Gentleman that when they entered on that controversy hb
would be as willing as any Hon. Member to corsider the
fair claims of the landlord and the farmer in any general rat.
duction of taxation consequent upon a surplus of revenue.
He would be as happy to see justice done to then as to the
manufacturer and tradesman-(Oh, oh)-bnt when he pre-
posed to transfer the burdens of agriculture to other c asses
of the community, he met the Free-trader on precisely the
same ground, and had not taken any one step •to get rid of
that controversy. When the Right Hon. Gentleman at-.
tempted to'do that, he (Mr. Cobden) would meet him on the
threshold, and ask him whose taxation he was going to re-
mit? If It was that' of the landowner, how dd he propose
to reach the 'farmer by remitting the tax.upon land? He
must show him further that the landowner suffered from
free-trade policy. The Noble Lord had mete the statement
that had' been made-
The Earl of MARCH said his explanation was in anaw4r'
to•a statement made by the Hon. Baronet, and which state-
'meat was not correct.-(Hear, hear.)
-Mr. COBDEN-4t was the assertion of the incorrectness
of the Hon. Baronet with which' he was going to deal. The
Noble Lord had said that his Noble relative had suffered a
Los's of income consequent upon the free-trade policy. He
was not aware that the' Duke of Richmond's case had been
referred to, but if the question was raised; do not let it be sups,
posed for a moment that inaividual cases were to be avoided.
He, had not heard of any: i i uction of rents, but tite
contrary. •
The Earl of MARCH hoped he Hon. Gentleman would.
forgive him. He was serry to trespass again upon the Houle,
'but this was a matter Of a somewhat personal nature. . The ,
property of a noble relative of his had been-called in ques-
tion. He had distinctly stated the fact, and he now repeated
and could state* of his'owirknowledge, that- his 'property in
Sussex had been revalued and a reduction had occurred upcth
the whole rental.-(Loud cheers.)
• Mr. COBDEN would state'exactly what he had heard in
the course -of some inquiries which he had made.-(Lond
cries of ". Oh.") He 'had found upon inquiry in the imme-
diate neighbourhood of Goodwood that Knott only had thee
been no reduction.-(Shouts of" Oh," and " Questiono
When the Noble Lord spoke of a reduction of rents he found
that it had not been as a rule applied to the property, and
that it a tenant was going out there were half a dozen others
ready to take the land. If the Duke of Richmond had his
land let upon those terms, and that there were half a dozen
tenants ready to take it, then he should say that the Duke
of Richmond was very incapable of managing his affairs if
he dreamt of reducing his rents upon these tarns.-(Cries
of " Oh, and " Question.") Why, they were not quite tto
mealy-mouthed when the Right Hon. Baronet the Member
for Ripon was speaking a night or two since. He was net
ashamed to say that he had not reduced his rents, and if
they dealt with individual cases in that way he
had a right to deal wth the present as a fact brought before
the House. He would go farther, and say that the Noble'
Duke derived a compensation from any reduction that might
have taken place in the. price of his land in the reduction .
that had taken place in pain price of commodities. He was a
landed proprietor, and mtained, doubtless, a large estab-
lishment and household and stables, and he contended that
he gansedonore than almost any other individual in the re-
duction that had-taken .place in the price of corn and of su- •
gar-(Oh, and a laugh)-and by the reduction of those rates
of which tbey•had had- an illustration that day. They should
go into all that before he would acknowledge the right of the,
Right Hon. Gentleman to take a tax off the agriculturists
and place it on the shoulders of the industrious portion of the.
community. If the. Right Hon. Gentleman evaded protec-
tion, and laid on a tax by way of an indemnity, they met the
Free-traders precisely in the same controversy, and had not
yet arrived at the conclusion of the struggle. Upon all these
grounds it was necessary that they should understand the
-footing upon which they were-it was necessary that the
question should be brought to a conclusion, for the sake, not
only of the manufacturers and the merchants, but also for
the sake of the landowners and the tenants. Could it be
doubted, after the way in which they had kept up the con-
test for the last five years, leading on the tenantry with
false hopes, and in expectation of getting redress from the

. . ,
were for the public good were adopted, was unconstitutional
But it should be borne in mind that Lord Derby did' not
expel, the late Ministrv.,•,The late Government, fell
...
.unex-
pectedly, and from a loi*ow 'eddied' at it by one whom he might
call a triend to, it.-(bear, hear.) • The Noble ' Lord (X.
Russell) fell 4in proposing a measure which he, no
,donbt,'
believed to be essential, to the best interests of the country.
lie respected the argument'of the lion. Gentleman opposite 1
as to, the duty of Lord Derby appealing te,tlia, country' for 1
their approval of his financial measures; that appeal mo-t be
soon made, and of this he felt confided, that whether the
term of office of the, preient Government wite long -or' Shorts
the Noble. Lord at its head would, to the best' of 'his- abilitY,.
. .
maintain the,religtonof the country, preserve, ondiminisliett,
the rights of thecominiinitY, and the liberties of the people.:
Mr. HATCHELL said, that' having .fills v il*-dffica of
Attorney-General iii ireliii4; he 'felt it; celb." lila' dtotf to',
reply.to,theehservaticnis, Of hiS lion, .an Friend ,
on the,lega; appointinents in Ireland by thelN'GreVertiment.:
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman Said that -the late 14o'
vernment . had raised tothe bench used 'WhainaineCtit'ere
never heard in the courts in Ireland • noveivere thelatti. Mr':
O'Loghlan, the late *Chief Baron Woulfe,thi present Chief
Baron. and the,preeent Chief Aistide of flii CoUrt'lif Com- s
mon Pleas, undi,thigtalsed in their proleasibn ?Asear.) It
was said that Messrs. Henn and, Bennett were overlookbd by
the Government. by were * tliSiy nit appointed to metal
positions by the presenCGoiernment? . No-they were over-
looked, although they were ardent supporters of a Conierva-
tive line ofpolicy.--r(Hear.)
Mr. BOOKER said he hid entire confideffce in the' Go-'
vernment .and in the Right Hon. Geotlernan' who was the'
leader in, that lionse, and no taunts from Honourable Gen-
tlemen opposite would wean the country party'froni the con-
fidence which they reposed in'. the present Government,---'
(Hear, hear.) It was not necessary that he should refd to
the tinnily character of.the Neble Lord 'at the head of the
Government, And he . had' only to expreali'' a hope that his
counsel, requirements_ of the country; would'
pr,
ugidrred the,hear. r) 4 0
world
not theft refer to the
questions .of free trade or ;protection:-(Criesof '" Oh !").
evail. -as re
4
When public opinion had been expressed on these questions'
it would then. be the time ter opening up thii important
.question. , Honourable Ge.ntlemen opposite had spoken of the
division on the part of the Ministerial benehes; but this be
could truly say, that:, they were not 'afraid of Meeting the
Members on the opposite side of the''Honse a't the aprciper
period, when this question of the commercial polity of the
country canoe under discossiOn. He was satisfied that the
people had entire confidence in the present Ministry, and for
this reason, that they were, dissatisfied With the absurdity'
and imbecility of the late Goiernmene.-:(Hear, and Oh.)
And it was a relief to them to see menin office who would
not be shifted about from one point to another. 'and who
when they went to the coimtry, would do so upen brriad prin-
ciples-4 Cheers, and oh)s-and would, he had' nosclotibt, re•
ceive the approval of the people
_of this ceuntry, . s'
Sir B. HALL said that the on. and Learned-Gentleman
, the Solicitor-General for Ireland had asked one remarkable
and pointed question. - lie had asked whether it was neces-
sary for a man to be a hypocrite in .erder , to be a Minister;
and he (Sir B. Hall) would ask whether it was not necessary
, for a Minister to be an honest man ? But if the present Mi-
nisters wished to act honestly, he thought they ought at
once to come forward. and .declare whether, after having'
attained to power, they meant to abide by their former
professions, or whetber,they had used those professions for'
the purpose ofArriving At. office ?-4t4t
-ear, hear.) He had
been somewhat surprised at the speech of the Honourable
Gentleman who hail just sat down. -He remembered that
at the time when the Honourable Member had come-for--
ward as a candidate to represent the county. of
Hereford a newspaper which advocated the Tory principles
in that county-had promised that the Hon. Gentleman, after
he should have been returned to Parliament, would
" beard the lion, in his den"-the lion meaning, no doubt,
the Noble Lord the head of the late Government. But, from
the moment the lion. Member had been elected down to the
present time he had never brought ferward any measure
and bad never suggested one single proposal in accordance
with the principles he had advocated when' he had sought
the suffrages of the electors of Herefordshire. A circular had
lately.been sent round by the Protectionist party in that
county, calling a meeting in the parish church of Peter-
church, for the purpose of considering the best mode of
securing the return of Protectionist • Members at the
next election. Now, that WAS all very
well; but it
should be known what was meant by protection.-(Hear,
hear.) Lord Derby had lately asked for the forbearance of
his opponents. But for what purpose had he made that
request? He had made it in order that he might work all
the appliances of the Government to strengthen himself in
his position, so that he might hereafter be enabled to tax
the food of the people. But the Noble Lord had made no
definite avowal of his views on the subject of the corn- laws ;
and the addresses recently made by a number of the
members of his Government to their constituents were
equally vague and unsatisfactory upon that subject. The
Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had
certainly thrown no new light upon the matter. And yet
that Right Hon. Gentleman bad on a former occasion ex.
pressed his admiration of a Minister who gave effect to his
convictions. He had even added these words-" nifortu
nate will be the Position of this country when a Minister
pursues a line of policy adverse to the convictions which he
himself entertains."-(llear, hear.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman would do well to remember those expressions
upon the present occasion. In 1841 the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer was strongly
opposed to an 88. duty. In 1846 a ss. duty was sug-
gested, but the Right- lion, Gentleman, in connexion with
the late lamented Lord George Bentinck, said they would I
have nothing to do with it. In 1842, the Right Hon. ,
st
Gentleman ated in his election speech, we had a revision
of the sliding scale and came to a compromise, when it I
was considered the arrangement would be permanent.
That arrangement the Right lion. Gentleman described as
being a just and moderate protection. Now, what was that
protection? It was no less than 20s. a quarter on wheat
when that article shoUld be under 503.-(Opposition cries of
" Hear, hear.") Was that the protection the Right Jinn.
Gentleman hoped to see restored, and which, if sincere, he
should endeavour to re-impose?- (Hear, hear.) The late
Lord George Bentinck was a nobleman the sverisoul of
honour-4 Hear, hear)-respected and beloved by all who
knew him. He gave up all his pursuits and favourite ambi- t
thou for the purpose of working to the best of his ability the;
great question, of protection.-(Hear, hear, and cheers.);
There had been twelve nights of debate - heavy debate-oni
that, question, and the last speech spoken in the debate was,
delivered by Lord George. Bentinck, from which he (Sir 134
Hall) took the following extract :-" Deeply should I regreti
should any large proportion of those Members who have been
sent to Parliament to represent the landed tenantry .of
England in this. House prove to be the men to bring lastingi
dishononr alike upon, themselves, their constituencies; and
this House, by an act of tergiversation so gross as to
be altogether unprecedented in the annals of. any;
reformed or unreformed House of Commons." He (Sir Bi
Hall)
,quoted that because he wished to know whether her
Majesty's _Ministers were about to re-impose a duty on corn.
or whether they merely intended to shuffle through it. - He
found another extract in
,the same speech, which, as being
short, and coming from the source it did, he would take thl
liberty of reading to the House. -
Lord ,G.
".Sir, .lastly .I collie to the . proud * • tocracy. We 'are a
'proud aristocracy,' but if we are area
r p pdd, it is that We and
, proud in thechastity of our honour.- If we assisted in 184 i
'
in turning the Whigs out of office for that we did not con.;
Bider a fixed dnty,o f
Bs. a.,quarter for' n n corn a saincian
protection, it was with honest* of on oreignd
single=ininded
ness that we , did so ; ini,mparpose a
not before th
fact, we will not .be •we were _ ,
accomplices after the fact, in th
.friud ;by which the . Whig
of office. If we are a 'proud
g were, _ 1
aristocracy,' we are proud o
our honour, inasmuch as
,we
nifty
and never can be guilty ~_ never. hay ~
of double-dealing witt th
farmera,,of England. of ,swindling opponents, deceivin
our friends, , :or betraying:: our '.e,oour.t.;e..That wa
the speech of a; Noble Lord who as
hefora.
said, wa
the very soul of honour.- (Hear la ) *lt was delivers
on the 2.7 th of February, 1a46,. a' d onr -that very day Si:
yew, the 27th, of February, 1852,11 the Noble Lord, then 11
colleague of the late Lord George Bentinck, attained to th
position of Prime. Minister of R
--- d though he rest
in his place on that night in
,thelan- t and though
f Lords, yet neither
that Noble Lord (Lord Derby)nornnse 'g° Hon.' Gentlemeo
opposite had themoral courage-.-
dare their views.-(lear.) athe political honesty, to de's
asked, were her Mat
jetty's jesty's Ministers going tort do? theyWte'riee
tey going to he
guilty of " double-dealing with the f r '" -(Hear, hear.
Would they tell them they shOuldahmavers.
t Coq.
have a 253. pro ec i
when corn was under 50a. ? or were they going to come
forward and declare protshould have served their e
tc
t
i
ro
n
dead and a humbug after it
u
an 'electii cry?-(Hear,
and laughter.) They were anprotectionistas
' Government. On
looking over the list he found every member a Protectionist'
with two . exceptions, membersbers l
the. Attorney and Solieitor-Gen professioni,
of the "liberal
oft_
late Sir R. Peel. - opp- ositio mks, the law officers_ Ile
and • • Learned Gentlemen i_ 11 cheers.) One of these Hog.
had already been referred te as
having agreed to an
,arrangement,
was understood he would not of which it
by the terms
appear again. The othergen-
tleman was endeavouring to obtain
rupt and maculate borough of li a seat in that most co,
modification! ofpOlicy wee ,talked arwichetr, A
a resolution.adopted At a meeting. He (Sir B. hear.)Ha) loure
on. the
_l2th jecember, ,of last held At (Si Unclog Tavein
Richmond presided.. The ,Year, at which the Duke t
s resoiution was-'` Resolved, tust
all, the.friends of proteetion are cat tot 'e
National Association for. the Protectionled upon supportu til„
and to co-operate to. the utm , of Native Ind s r ,
°B' oftheir power in obtaintqg
a reversal of the present System of''
•
the. 28th, 3YebruarY, 1851, L free lmpcirtatiop." On
to ~have said. "I. cannot, crd
an
was reported
abadon the existing ("hams' as ..was
, ma,
that has .been taken .by till, ky rs
Berate . duty ~on corn ; and pro •impesition ~of a mt.)
. few. yearn. we . may get rid of thevlsicll4 by which in a
Amount .of ,the, incense tax wait 11):Come tax." , Now the
6,000,0004. m the Tear. There *wer".liseen 5,000,00.0,. ,aqd
brenght,annually into. the country, 111°Q°'0°clrf'' of "n
155., duty per quarter to make
~g,so(li.. is
wepid ; require Is
incsometax; and was that, he: aed Cti abolition of the.
Gentlemen opposite. considered a r
, modekno7r, what
,Htoti,
(Sir B. Hall) found that from!,lB4l, to 184r,rate diity,?' fte
the . imports . amounted' to ..869,641,0C10 tooth., included,
following five years from 1846 to 18512 ' . a'n4 ,
for the
466,755,0004, ~ showing a ; ;vast . increase: -'
bttb. ideludep;
years the. exporta were, from, 184,1 t 111. the .saws,
chided, 659,408,0004; . and.. for the
,five of 1845, , both in-
f.:moo 1846, to 1851, both included, 833,16,09(1111win. Yeari3'
anything could prove .the prosperity of.:th -441 no that g
the- result of these exports and,imports......(ll country., it was,
Manchester, z since 1846, the poor, rate
tied ear: hear.) in
leas than 50 par cent.; therefore he, wished - - • •h d menus e no,
Hon. Gentlemen opposite were, going to ed .to know what
benefit wail the reversal going to. take eater For whcae
lords, the tenants ,or thetabourera?-(aPeitaes--for the lance
lords,_
that,two Noble Dukes, (Richmond and flan)
He bad
were loud in their demands for protection hitutland), Who
. diminution of their rents. ,Xeither.had this tad suffered .no
--;(Oh, oh.). Well, if they had, why
,did • en ants suffered.
make A reduction? Had any. reductions
sutot the landlords.
e", Oh, oh," .from the Ministerial, benches,) .taken plated ?-
general
:reduction had taken place.:....h,
oh' :fa asser no
word to say to the gentlemen called the „ Country
) He had a
and as he preferred it should be in the languageuntry Party,"
to his own, he would_ just read an extract of another
which concluded with these remarkable wordrs92ll a speech
then,. because you see a great, personage giving "• Do not,
pions, do not cheer him on-do not yield edeii,aup his sztlii-
political tergivereation." These were the words of thereward to
Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor ehe
present
1846 . and he then begged to ask hint, ashhe pro treedr in
o
standby the principles on which he rose tpetiace? When on
the. Opposition side of the House the Right 1108. Gentleman
called for protection, and clamoured for dissolution,_( Hear,
hear.) What they asked hint to do at present was merely
to declare his intentions. -(Hears -hear.) The Right Hon.-
Gentleman called for " fair play," which
they were inclined
to give him ; but when, he called for 4'. protection," the coun-
try was justified in reciniring :
toknow no. what ,that protection
consisted.: (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of MAR
, CH assured the House •
it was not his
intention to follow in the tone or manner of the Hon. and
Gallant Gentleman (Mr. B. Osborne), who
s opened the pre-
sent discussion. The coarse followed by, that Hon. and Gal-
lant Gentleman•resembled that taken by the lawyer who,
for want of a case, abused the other side.-( rear, hear.) He
had heard every word that fell from the on. and Gallant
Member, and he appealed to the House to say if there could
be found a particle of argument in the whole
,of his dis-
course ?(Hear, hear.) It Was a tisane of abuse:of Minis-

, _L:53l+

20., Pcnc).

-•-• __________ --
legislation of that House, could it be doubted that they had
retarde d improvement, prevented the tenant seeking for a
reductit tra c f his rent, aud stopped progress in other direc-
tions?. „ T. 4, it. bad been.:4-oieg on for five or six years, and
now he, the . Light bras the
.tires to ; brim the 'question to an '
issue. , 0'44
e:a la D '.ttC: 'titse;-. way
es and Ear
in
'lvhiciltihs, whichec o u
f rej-e hadt(orm
ebeenj&
epageiteaeteied'es 1,4 „.ijoubt whether they ; had really established the
principlee of free trade; and 'in more- than eane country of
Europe opera elope had been absolutely suspended, because
they could n; at believe that when the,landed 'aristocracy, of
whom they I: Lae so tree an.. idea—ehey could not believe,
they .did pot,, doubt that what they-said waif' true, that they
intended to ~ reverse theirepolicy.--ecHear, hear.) nothing
could be heti* r for, the can.s frf free trade than to, appeal to I
the coutrtry, and theecUriclaeien he came to-was that the in-
terest-, of, ehe .country weelcV keep 'them, true to it. They,
might tr y to :interpose sot epther question. but .it w=ould not
do, and eeelle e: asked was that the country should ,htive an cp.
port wait; y .4)1 ' bringing the question; to an_issue.e-erheera.)
Mr, ;el ~ r. viii.:ES lamented the taste; of the I on, Alember
. , _
for tha.‘sl'ilist ,Ridieg ; he lamented ,excessively Where the
Noble- Lei.)rd,(the Earl of March) -statedithaC hie iaoble vela-
eiveethe Puke of..,llic.bma.cl, had climenishelle- re es tele,.
the lime , • Member- had coatinued to assert that ha had heard
(rem eitfe ;net persona-that the Duke had not done so. . He
had nerve„ 7 heard, any gentieman'a word, disputed. disputed. luso tin.
proper , a,. . manner. He:. was glad that there was- to be a
discussior
.t. .Theeqeestion was, was: the Gevernment of the
country t ) be carried on cr not, -and .were the necessary Melt•
surer for i is good toffee passed? - (Hear, heer.) If the
late Gov ariament had declared the embodiment of the
•
militia to ee. necessary .for the defence: of the . country—if ;
they had . - stated it to beempolitic to dissolre Parliament—
were the p, resent Government to be taunted by Hon. Mem. I
berm -on, t lee Opposition beaches for holding the same opi-
nions? : If ; the ;present Governmeat was to be thus opposed 1
it would he bY
,a tyrannical majority, and ' the country cer-
tainly ouglt
,t to be appealed to judee between them. He
did not feese,the issue; he. knew the determination of the
Noble Ear't (the. Earl of Derby) sufficiently well to know
that, if do d'eaited,. he would nevertheless try the appeal again.
The No el.'s:, ,'Earl would h.
, ....... coastiutionally .. right in _so
doing.. i , lee: if_a dissolution were to take place at.once, the
country e roued be .threwn into the greatest, confusion. Hun. '
Gentleme, ,n said they did not know whit. the policy of La" Es
Noble Ea d -at the head of the-,Government . was ; Jet them
read the : speech of the* Noble Earl.---( An ,Ilea. ,Member—
Which of them?) The& inade keit mouth,. In that *eel
the Nobl ~.) Earl said that a ;duty
.would be . the hest. way of
settling t: ae. question, but/that he would not- bring,forward i
that clue' bon until he had taken the sense-of. the country ;
upon it, b. iut in the meantime he would consider the measures
necessary to relieve the suffering interests • from their-present- i
ii
burdens:— .e(Hear, hear,, arid a laugh.) The. onourable
Member f or, the-West Riding had stated that- the. Peotec- ;
tionists hi eel impeded .the improvement 'of 'agriculture. The
Right lb. ,lourable. Baronet. the Member for .Ripon; in his
speech the i other night, had alluded to the immenee, increase
in the imi iodation of guano, the, great extent of drainage
that had 1 teen undertakes, and other improvements. Since
184 G eapii al had been invested to a large extent in land,
and wit e what return? Let Honourable Members
read. Mr. e Lechi's balance-sheet, which showed a loss of 6371.
in one yea r, on a fain of-188 acres. He would explain this
as shortly lie possible. The Hon. Member for Berkshire made
some expe: timents, the results of which he had published in
1847, and I Lis mode of operation had been adopted very gene-
rally by tl le farmers. By these experiments -it bad been
ascertained . that thirteeie tons of farmyard manure, with three
cwt. of gu me, produced as fertilising results as twenty tons
of farmyai el manure alone in the productions of turnips;
and as the guano used in such small
:quantities was much
cheaper the in the dung, the increased demand for the former
article was accounted for without any extension of farming
operations. Hon.:Members",opposite were anxious for a dis-
solution of Parliament, and such a measure might be neces-
Key.- But let them do everything quietly. Let the esti-1
mates be g one through as rapidly as possible; let the few
measures es 'hich were absolutely necessary be carried, and '
then he would say that if a dissolution were ire-'
'fused the Opposition would have a rational cause of.com- ;
plaint, and -would be justified in the exercise of their con-
stitutional powers. But when he looked at the present
state of the nation—when he considered how little excite- ,
ment was at : present going on, how little had been caused by ,
the exit of • the late Administration and the coming in of the
present, he felt assured that the people would calmly take i
Lord Dere,, y's explanation of his policy into consideration,
and would t leterraine upon upholding that Minister in his en-;
deavours to do justice to all classes of the community and to
uphold the constitution.— (Hear) He believed that Noble
Earl would be found ever ready to bring in new measures
when neces nary, but firmly resolved to set his face against
reckless innovation.—(Protectionist cheers-) ;
Mr. CAIeDWELL —lf I am. so fortunate as to obtain fort
a brief period the attention of the Committee, I promise that;
I will not willingly let fall a mingle word having the re-
motest teneency to perpetuate that heat which a few minutes
since seem, :d so disagreeably imeeneet,-- (Hear, hear.) Il
believe there!: never was an occasion upon which calmness and,
deliberate i.eflection was more urgently called for from those
who take part in these debates. (Cries of "Bear, hear.")
I believe that we are now called upon to. .settle one of the:
most impolrtant questions upon which the liberty and hap-'
piness of a free pe0p1.... can depend. If ‘so eee that il,i
tais favoured country, during the last few years, you havei
enjoyedun exampled peace and happiness, has it not arisen;
from that balance of a free constitution, which, by the ob-1
servance on. the part of the Crown,. and on the partof Perlia-.
ment, of certain definite rules, and. certain established:
precedents, maintains a balance a freedom, securing the!
sovereignty and pre-eminence of the Throne on the one side„
and the ri glitz and happiness of the people on the other.—
(Cheers.) And, Sir, the first questions that we are called
upon to raise in this discussion are, what are the privileges,l
and, correlatively with those privileges, what is the
_duty of
this House of Parliament? . We now see before us a number
of gentlemen for whom I entertain a high respect, and many;
of whom I have the happiness of recognising among thel
number of my personal friends. The members of the Queen's
Governmesit are under these circumstances, that they have
been, according to their own admissions frequently made, and
implied by the withdrawal of measures to which they attach
importance, called to office, while they did not possess the
confidence of this House. Well, then, what is the state of
affairs, and what in that state of affairs is the duty which
devolves upon us ? I shall tell you, from authority
which you will respect, what are the relations of thti
Commons to the Crown, the country being situated a 4
it is at present. In 1841 three propositions were laid
down that the power of the executive govern-'
ment to carry measures in the House of Commons wasp
essential to the country's independence—that when Govern 4
ment found itself in such a position that it no longer pose
seamed that power, one single alternative remained, that ale
ternative being to resign office or to dissolve Parliament • It
was further laid down that if they elected to dissolve, thej
must dissolve immediately, with no greater • delay than tl4
exigencies of the public service required.—(Protectionist
cheers.) I am glad to hear this proposition receive so much
concurrence on the other aide of the House; but they ought
to concur.in it because it was laid down by no mean author
1 rity, the late lamented Sir Robert Peel, and, what pedal
those gentlemen will value more, had the concurrence of a
those Members of the present Cabinet who then had the hoe
nour of seats in the House of Commons, and who testified
their concurrence by following Sir R. Peel into the lobby of
that occasion.—(Hear.) Nor were - those propositions lai
down as mere dry abstract propositions, but reasons .al
were given.. It was laid down and argued before you that
the well-being of this eonstitution depends on the constant
and uniform maintenance of the equilibrium:. It was -said,
If you do not maintain it, if you maintain the contrar'
of the proposition thus described, so unconstitutional, ap
dangerous a doctrine I never heard maintained, so dangerous
to public men, and so fatal to the energy of Government?,'
Then follows the picture that was drawn of the position in
which Government Weald be placed if they permitted 016
principles laid down-to be' violated. "No doubt you would
easily find gentlemen to carry on the administration of Go-
vernment, respectable men, ' and fully equal to the &ads
of the executive; without meeting with the censure of Pere ,
liatnent ; but if you be satisfied with the mere discharge Of
executive functions, and do not insist -upon the power cif;
carrying into effect by legislation the advice you think it
your duty to give to the Crown, what need is there of con-
cert among Ministers, and what are the consequences thiiet
must follow, what encouragement do you give to the Hou
of Commons to trespass on the prerogative of the Crown?
If the Government say ' We are independent of the legie
lative measures and divisions of this House, that which vs
your peculiar function we will disregard, our fate shall net
depend upon your decisions, nothing but your interference
with our executive administration shall influence our reten-
tion of power,' what an inducement; do you not hold out
to the House of Commons to interfere with the prerogatives
of the Crown ?" Permit me now to read the following sen-
tences :—" It is inconsistent with all usage, and inconsistent
with the spirit of 'tile Constitution, that a Govemmenjt
should be enabled to select the measures which it thinks
proper to submit to the consideration of a' condemned Pat-
lianient, that it should withdraw some and; submit others,
that it 'should• tell the Parliament, ' an immediate dissolu-
tion is in contemplation, but before we dissolve we will juet
bring forward those measures, the rejection of which we
think most likely to damage the House, of Commonsu in the
eyes of their constituents; we will propose pop ,
votes
such, tor example, tie that for advancing money for the con-
'
etructiort of' railways in Ireland; we will bring forward par-
ticular measures which' we are of opinion may aid the party
- cums of our Administration, but respecting . every measure
which;we have, hitherto described as essential to the welfare
of 'the country—measures the -principle of which has been
affirmed by large• majorities in Parliament, but the great r
discussion 'of which may prejudice our cause at the hnstin a
;
' —respecting them we will exercise our own discretion as o
whether they alma be brought forward or withheld.'" Th t
is,' encourage the House of Commons to trespass on t e
f executive Government's province, and you encourage t e
executive, not to bring forward on their own responsibili
y
measure -of which they approve,' but to frame measures
with a•vieWto party operations on a dissolution of Peri+
dent, If that be your position ;constitutionally, what duti
-tlien` devolves on Members of the House of-Commons? Dog
there' not devolve on them this most:paramount obligation-,'
that these) Mr the maintenance of the-rights of the Crown,
readier theirprete6tionagainst these evil consequenc ° h uld
take the first opportunity, nots• by a factious opposition, n4t
by precipitate interference interference with the Ezecacids
teehneaceoonfattihtuetgrionea?t—(Hear,
wihearch..)sucAsh
-Government, but calmly and deliberately, of declaring their
a tocoarse the second
must
ghrurtiant°
—Of Whitt is the clanger ?—the danger is, that you shall take
by sap that which•you cannot takehy storrae—(Hear,bear,_e)
You know that you 'dare not directly assail the polie
_3l,wh;Z:
has secured the. enjoyments of the people, to weum the
'Hams of Commons is pledged; .but because you cannot take
by assault, you attempt to take by a new and easier course'
My Hon. Friend who has just eat down referred, to the speech
of the Earl of Derby, expressing himself eorapletelY satisfied
with ' the tenor, of that speech. ;Let sae congratulate my
Honourable Friend upon his ; beings great deal more
neople
eagle? satisfied than a great insnY o—er e
who have great difficulty in comprehendingthe meaning of
wi h me a little
that' speech. But let my Hon. Frlertheglaidt down is, that
into that speech, of which the Pr---rihe licy of 1846
the policy of 1842 was right,' but that the Pc!
i'c which Wall
wrong; and that you should control
th: iiiic Yof toe tariff'
unfortunately adopted in 1846 with Pe►l . e riff
Let me remind you, first
of the United States of America-
Hon. the .
of the way in whibh the night
;IChancellor of the
I f the American tariff. have an extract
Exchequer spoke 0 the American tariff,
from his speech, regardiTg_
,048. He.
when the
income-tax was renewed la I'said--" The result
of a trade carried on between a country which permits free
n
hotil
imports, and one which maintains e tariffs is, that the
sap arts of the.
former are diminisheds in proportion to the
;ff "
amount of their tan le That is to say,
that the exports of.
aMOU . a
country in which . free trade was established diminished,
while those of the country that maintained hostile tariffs in-
creased. ..1 ow, let me ask that Right Hon. Gentleman how
he would' account for this, that for eight years there was no
perceptible change in the amount of our trade, but that in
1842 It began to spring, and in four years it had increased
from fifty to sixty millions. Then came the policy of 1846,
which Lord Derby, although he will not absolutely reverse,
is confessedly prepared to modify. In the six years that
have elapsed since 1846 our trade has increased to 74 mil-
lions—that is to say, increased more rapidly after the sys-
tem of free imports had been introduced than during the
period intervening between 1842 and 1846. In the meantime
what was the condition of the other country, America, with
which we are compared ? I hold in my band the opinion of

the President of the United Staten on that subject, and I do
riot find that he is at alt satisfied with the effect ni of his
tariff; but he proposes to the Legislature to amen e its re-
sults, by granting more protections--(Protectienist cheers.)
But alreedYeht amount of protection' btemenefacturest inn the
United-Suttee ridges from 20 to 30 per cent., and el FA; iee
that the amount of protection the Right Hod. -Gehtleman '
opposite neabout to propose for this'ntmetrY?-e(rfear, begs>,
T.; e Right Hon. 'Gentleman 'has 'ffirther di:knee:reef-that ere
are greatly indebted to California for {'favourable eieenees of
the !nee-trade problem. -BetsAmerica• has' nom: ; retitled '
to California as well as ' this . cosintrin 'end "-IF the ktied4l
of California
eas been of such great benefit' to:lse. see
is likely than it would Also have edneserhet jehiseenEen
America, ' but hear what . the'- Piesidert esiie4 seneeeet
that sujeet; e-e The ' exports of `speeds, e'en"' neeliiinel.
. date our'" foreign'debt diiiing. the 'poet frenal yeinlidieeteen '
24,263,979 dollars over the' amount of leeeibeemeiorted,": It'
may be true that the bullion has passed' tnreuglanisießaikser
England,' like a sieve, but it lasi Raved 'tl.9 ftent k ;seal eats- '
11*, and elle Chidicelloref the Ueliegher 'clueneteneiey that
We haVe now' more beillon-hntlie•Bianokpottlitionfr:::ifon:
what have. been ' the consequences- he AMerice? l•restrin •
ten ne ne.ex•ise se-seers; ~-z e,,(7-r zit,-:0,!-;tatve-t14-4, lit
exports of specie, notwithstandingf the'.
nia, have exceeded those imports hone/ear to The amount
of twenty-five millions. . Now, let me ask' oe.this question.
Ton are going to re-adjust taxation net Only on Ora:bet:nil
other articles; and from the mysterions way' in Whictiey6u
deal with the House, it beeomes necessary for cue tinenceit-
s our to extract from evidence' what are the articles you` art
likely to tax; and as there is no' one evhese 'eenteni is i 0
likely to form a precsadent with geettenien opeosete at the late
Lord George Bentinck, I .shall refer to the budget he brought
forward the last time the incomeCoißm4maobnys whether they are prepared to
-tax was renewed.
.Let Me
such a budget as .thise, I, find
';espklatethielotausreitrot of
that he proposed to get 850,000/., if not double-that sutn,
upon corn, , and • 700,000 e upon timber. Now nein the navi-
gation-laws bave been irrevocab'y repealed, 'arid that 'ship-
owners and shipbuilders' are desirous of being diseneberrassed
id every impediment, would the Muse be ' willing
to levy 700,000 L on timber e—(gear, 'hearen ' ' Oa
cotton he proposed to raise 660,0034 and he deted :the de-
eline of the Cotton manufacture from the retrieval of thee duty;
eising this remarkable expression, " I : take' cotton -ror duty
!because it will be taking a lesson from the: , b 0614 .ef th-st
'United States." Now,. let us take e leesen frotin'the United
{States. The raw material is breught'eeee to': ;JO maniinace'
tured into' garments for expertation to en, theneorld. 'who;
i teen, is your natural competitor—who is, `iteegeinstee ise el
you would bemost anxious to hole eller err, in eeautitat_
. tures or cowmerce? Is it net the United States e
_Now,
i ponder, well upon these facts. The consumption or, tier cot
ton its the,United Stales had gradually risen'uptil the • date;
was removed in Great Britain, but since that time 'it hia
been gradually decreasing, and your Manufactures hive
been supplanting the naanufactures• of the United States,—
( Hear, hear.) Letiod ask you to; apply to.this one of you;
own canons. You desire to encouragiehe British etpouree.
and to make the foreigner pay for that encouragement. I
will show you that you have encouraged , half es much
more labour, and made the foreigner pay half aa•
much more since ' 1846 than he paid before. - The
Chancellor of , the Exchequer approved of the, policy of
1842, but disapproved of that of 1846. Well, the effect of
the policy of 1842
.was, that we are
,able to remit of
taxes that pressed. on the people, of two millions, and in
1845 the Customs and Excise were. reduced as much 'more.
But what did the tariff of '1846 do ? It enabled you to
take off seven or eight. million of taxes, in addition, while
the Excise and Customs aro as high as ever. Now, I
appeal to you on behalf of
adhere the great
to a interests
tbstsoaft the
country. I trust you will
em-
ploys British industry, makes foreigners pay, and while
it diminiehes the burdens of the people, does not
di-
minishe.memthbeere of thereceipts Houseofthe
o co
fExchequer.mmo, are
us liabyoutuhdatto
see
we,
th
that clear explanations are given on all these subjects, and
tbat nothing is left in doubt.—(Hear, hear.) I must now
ask your attention for a few moments to what I think
an interesting matter of history. Adam Smith, at the
close of his immortal work, leaving exhausted the subject
to which it referred, described a scheme of finance to which
he said there were so many powerful ecombinations and
so many great interests opposed, that its achievement
might well be considered Utopian. His scheme com-
prehended a great change in the Customs and Excise
duties, confining them to a few great articles of luxury or
consumption. such as sugar, rum, and tobacco. Lord Derby
finds fault with the tariff of 1846, because it did take away
the Excise and Customs except on a few great articles of
luxury and consumption. Adam Smith then went on to
state whet would be the results of his scheme. First, the
debt would be diminished—the debt has been diminished—
and in the meantime the people had been relieved from some
of the most burdensome taxes, and the labouring classes-
would be enabled to live better and cheaper, and send their
work cheaper into market. The cheapness of the goods
would ensure the demand for the labour that produced them,
and the power of the labouring classes to consume exciseable
articles would be vastly increased. Now, what was an Utopia
to Adam Smith has been accomplished by Sir Robert Peel.
The interest of the debt has decreased from 29e millions
to 28 millions. The consumption by the poor of
•-et articles of cooner, eas vasne eicreseed, such as cocoa,
tea, sugar, and tobacco, and ill that has been accom-
plished, while at the same time a great surplus was secured
for the revenue.—(Hear.) I now venture to close the case
which I have endeavoured feebly to lay before you. I think
I have shown you by no invidious reference to farmer
speeches, but simply by a recurrence to those arguments and
propositions you held in former years, and have never die-
avowed, and which the Hon. Member who has just sat down
challenges me to read in the speeches of Lord Derby, ex-
pressing, at the same time, the most unbounded confidence
that the results of the next election would confirm them, the
effect which your present motion must have on the interests
of the people. Now, we, the commoners of England, do
not want to have all the beneficial results of free
trade reversed ; we do not want you take by sap that
which you cannot take by storm ; we, in the exercise
of our constitutional duty, respectfully, not in bitter-
ness of language, but with much force of argument, call on
you, for the sake of the country and of yourselves, to give
what you call your policy to the country, disguising nothing
and explaining everything. I trust that there willbe no party
or factions proceedings.—(Oh, oh.) I entirely assent to the
proposition that faction, if there be faction, would redound
to your advantage, and would recoil upon us.—(Hear.
' hear.) I am an earnest advocate for our commercial policy
as it exists, and I desire to give you no such advantage as the
appearance of faction on our part would create, but I believe
that we should be dull watchers, faithless guardians of our
public trust, if we did not insist on explicit declarations of
your future intentions; I believe that if we did not demand
such explanations, we should be parties to the surrender of
those principles by which the British Constitution guarantees
at once our liberties and our rights.—(Cheers.)
Mr. CAYLEY said, with respect to what had fallen from
the Honourable Member who had just sat down, he always.
referred to the policy of the late Sir Robert Peel. Now,
when he talked about the commercial improvement which
had followed free-trade measures, he (Mr. Cayley) must be
odfoutbhtelut
been
permitted to observe that, in every instance . of commercial
stagnation, there-was a corresponding spring, in commercial
ons.WhHatethdeidy unictiltleddenfryeethtreadperobd u
speentyo
a benefit to the' country, by the lowness of the price of corn.
the lowness of the price of Agricultural product lessened the
fterwa n
years.a acti
But what they on the Ministerial side contended was, that
home trade.—(Ministerial cheers.) ' He would remind the
•
House,' also, that the. Protectionists did net foresee the
famine .10. Ireland—(Hear, hear)—noi did the Gentlemen on
the OPposition side.—(Hear, hear.) One Object they had
in view was, not to give the people less; but to give them
more employment; and hence arose the doctrine of protec-
ta.—(Ministerial cheers, and ironicaecheeksefeom:the Op-
pos position.) n. ) Could they show them that, under the present
• h were th rich e parties
system, the people'would have a larger amount' of food and
a larger amount of employment? The
who profited by the present system, and he Would admit,
for the moment, the working classes. Notwithstanding
what had been said, the manufacturers bad not been gainers.
They complained last year, and though they might be making
small profits be the home trade, they were loiing by the ex-
port trade.—(tiear, bear.) If the House thought he was
arguing for a restoration of protection such as they had be-
fore, they quite misunderstood him. He had also said that
they should first exhaust every other mode. It seemed to
him that the object of Gentlemen opposite was to have some
ground of quarrel.—(Hear, hear, and laughter from the Op-
position.) The Honourable Member (Mr. Cobden) saw they
were not Protectionists, and he was determined to make them
gee-(lean hear.) At that moment he did not think it
fair to ask of Lord Derby's Government a more explicit de-
claration than had been made.—(Cheers, and ironical
cheers.) If the farmers of England thought proper to have
coenutiodue
Honourable e in
G
would not return to a Protectionist Government, and there-
fore they wanted Ministers to go to the country.—(Hear,
was
ascOu it
li to
hear.) But Government would not take, that course.—
(Ironical cheers from the Opposition.) They had several
things to complete—they had to complete free trade, which
at present was one. sided. —(Hean, hear.) They had next to
complete reciprocity ; then to complete protection; and also
to complete tllu rt•visir.r. of taxatiere -He (Mr. Ceeleeel
thought he remembered that the 'Noble Lord (Lord John
Russell) had said that the resent weir not the fit bane to
dissolve Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) If that were so, would
they not allow the Noble Lord 'it the head of the Govern-
ment to exercise his discretion?—(Heitte hear, from the
Ministerial side.) When the Noble Lord ' (Earl PerhY) was
not going to introduce eny measures of his own, but
to
through s.uch as were in'progress, aed_
w n ey considered
trade of
the season of 'the year, the the metropolis, and the
state of Europe, he was of opinion that for the ten remaining
would be n to carry
months of the
,session
whiche alluded to, thatecestr
through the busineeehe ...sd,
accede to. the pleenesiticm °I Government. Last year they
said that, the Protectionists could not carry on the Govern-
ment.. If that be se, why
not " give them rope enough ?"
d laughter.) Why not give, them some
(near, 11e4r' an
e If they had - • ' th
months' ineerieneee any. 'confidence, in tru
Why should.they object? see would ask whys little expo-
w-,,„,..,,, would not be beneficial-. to the counteye He could
"en thinking that the present 'Government should be
not hen): •
ermitted to choose their time for 'a 'dissoliitien ef 'neje-
Pee Noble Lord (Lord - h liy bad Chosen
meat as the
his.—(Hear, hear.) l—
enrol J. RUSSELL said—We 'have hsiite two verY great
. • ' on of the
and important questions to -consider—ode
m; flie the li th
Constitution, and another, the quesel: d e -icl'4 c7-t,:, ea
commercial policy, which has been puretiectirohe
aeltion of the
present ihne. les ei
-sew, .0, with iespecttatheee
re. .
b ion has
Constitution, rupon 'which I think much XeieeP.P.
een alleged
eiristed, and' in relation-to which much lasl 0
undeserved," I will
against Me which I believe to "be totally te tustry
t hp •
state what occurs to me. on that stikieen The la
resigned office, and it appeared that ad I
to Me , - wan
not to Elena or any one,
not bound to recommend her Majestyajesty
the so of the greatest party in
Yet, as Lord Derby wes. at effiel- to find
.suppdrt in this
this House, and vies more .
Minister, it seemed to me consonant
House than any other
smd her Majesty to send for the
with my duty to recommaer Majesty, and, as I ex_ pected,
Earl of Derby. He executed.Bvr the commands of her Majesty.
accepted office, and w
Ministry then became one that
The position of the new
e
Parliamntary constitution
Tbsy
was consonant with our
a
but to take their seats and ppear here
had nothing to do _
Butwhat h •
the Crown. was their next
as Ministers
of the
avowed that they differed in opinion from
the They.ha
policy adoted and' pursued sines 1846. Onem
the commercial
mile t have
thereupon, they miletaken, and that was the
course
ble. They might have taken the 'course of re-
most reasons
• leg the existing House.of
measures whiCh they thought desirable to that House. That
was the course taken by Lord Grey when I, as the organ of
that Government, proposed the Reform Bill to names of
commons elected under the Government of the Duke of
Wellington. I myself had taken a smiler course in 1846,
when I proposed to the House of Commons in which Sir R.
Peel had a majority an alteration 'of the sugar duties, and
I carried on the business of the Government during that
and the succeeding session with that House of Commons.
But, if that were not the course that the present Govern-
ment thought proper to take' there was another course,
attended with some public inconvenience I admit, and to
which there were objections, but perfectly constitutional
and perfectly open to them. That was to declare, as the
Secretary of State for the Colonies declared the other day,
that, wishing to revise, to alter, and to modify the policy
of Parliament with regard to free trade, ill which her

did not concur, they should, as soon as public business would
permit, advise her Majesty to dissolve the present Parlia-
ment, and submit to a new Parliament the measures they
thought conducive to the public interest.-(Hear, hear.)
sir, to that course, if they had taken it, not one word of ob-
jection could have been said. I, for my part, should have
been satialed to wait until their measures had been pro-
posed, and would thea have considered whether they re
good, 'and such as ought to be adopted. But, instead of
following either of these modes of proceeding, they have
taken a course that I venture to say has no precedent in the
history of the country since the Constitution has been esta-
blished-(Loud sheers from the Opposition benches)-and
for which no justification whatever can be found in the
maxims and rules of the Constitution.-(Cries of " Oh, oh!"
from the Ministerial benches.) Hon. Gentlemen may di-
sent, but am I to be permitted to state the argument or
not?-(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary
of State for the Home Department stated the question very
fairly the other night. He said that the precedent of 1784
was not applicable to this case. If he means by that that
inapplicable to the present case, I
the precedent is totally
agree with him. Mr. Fox and his party were dismissed
from office by the Crown. They said that the Minister of
the Crown ought to have the confidence of the House of
Commons, and that so long as they were in a minority the
Ministry had no constitutional position in this House..-
(Hear, hear.) They said further, that the existing House
of Commons ought to be maintained, and there they fell
into an error, for Mr. Pitt, while he did not deny that it
was necessary that the Ministry should have the confi-
dence of the House of Commons, urged this plea :-He
said that the Crown was not bound to refuse to dissolve
the Parliament, and that the Crown ought not to be pre-
cluded from using the prerogative of a dissolution, and from
calling upon the people to elect a new House of Commons.
Mr. Fox was perfectly right in the first part of the argu-
ment, and Mr. Pitt was justified in the second, and the prece-
dent thus established has become the rule of the Constitu-
tion up to the present time.-( Hear.) But that has not the
smallest bearing on the present question. It is not con-
tended, on the one side, that the Crown has no right to dis-
solve Parliament, and it isnot contended, on the other side,
that the Ministers must not possess the confidence of the
House of Commons.-(Hear.) In 1835 it is perfectly true
that Sir Peel maintained his situation, although he was
in repeated minorities in this House ; but he felt strongly
that this was not a situation that could be long maintained,
that it was at variance with the rules of the Constitution,
and that, as he had already advised his Majesty to use his
prerogative of a dissolution, it was incumbent upon him to
retire from office, and not again to recommend his Majesty to
dissolve the Parliament. But what is the situation of the
present Ministers? They will do neither one nor the other.
-(Hear, hear.) They are neither going to the House of
Commons, submilting their measures to them, as Earl Grey
did in 1831, and as I did in 1846; nor will they advise her
Majesty to dissolve Parliament as soon as the state of public
business will permit.-(Hear, hear.) The proposal was-
and I read it with astonishment in the speech of the Earl of
Derby in another House-;Hear, hear)-that the whole
session was to go on upon the assumption that Government
were in a minority, and that some time hence, in the course
of six or eight months-it might be the month of November
or December, Parliament was to be dissolved, and that a Go-
vernment without the confidence of the House of Commons
should meet the House of Commons in February, 11 months
after that Government had taken. office.-(Cheers.) Sir, I
hold that position to be perfectly unconstitutional.-(Con-
tinued cheering from the Opposition.) That there must be
a delay of some weeks, that some time must elapse when a
new Government takes office before a dissolution can take
place, is perfectly true; but there is no precedent that can he
found that a Government which is, upon its own avowal and
which was stated by the Right non. Gentleman the Secretary
for the Home Department the other night, as an acknow-
ledged fact, to be in a minority in this House, that they
should yet continue in office for eleven months-for nearly
a whole year - without ascertaining whether they possess
the confidence of the country.-(Cheers.) Why, that was
the position I objected to. Every person to whom I spoke
said, " This is a position perfectly new. What is to be
done we know not ; but the Constitution is set at defiance,
and it is clear that the Ministers do not regard either
precedents or those rules to which former Ministers have
submitted." Sir, that being the view taken by my friends
I had to consider the course I should pursue. Had no ex-
traordinary course been taken by the new Ministry, I should
have been perfectly ready to wait for the measures of the
Government. One of the first things that happened after
they came into office was, that my Hon. Friend the Member
for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers) came to me to consult
with me with respect to a motion that he had prepared. I
dissuaded him from bringing on that motion, thinking it nn-
advisable to interfere with the Ministers of the Crown before
we saw what they were going to do -( Hear, hear.) But it
is made a great crime with me, who am after all an inhabit-
ant of a free country-(Cheers from the Opposition)-that I
asked to come to my house those political friends with
whom I have been in the habit of acting.-(Cheering from
the same quarter.) This is most extraordinary, because
these accusations come from the Earl of Derby himself.
Now, I have been in the habit of seeing in past years, and
indeel in the course of the present session, notices in the
newspapers that " yesterday about 100 gentlemen of
the House of Commons assembled the house of the
Earl of Derby," and that they heard there an eloquent
speech from the Noble Earl. /end one of the last things I
saw was that he had assembled a large number of Members
at his house, that he had entered upon a statement of his
own political opinions, and that he, a Peer of the realm,
had prescribed to them the course which they ought to take
as representatives of the people.-(Loud cheers.) Perhaps
that was rather extraordinary-perhaps it never'quite hap-
pened before that a Peer of Parliament should venture upon
such a course.-(Hear, hear.) Sir, lam for all kinds of
free discussion upon political matters, and I should never
have dreamt of complaining of that course on the part of the
Earl of Derby. But it seems it was a great crime in me. I
am charged with having entered into a misalliance and a
c -rapact, because I received in my own house those political
friends who have been accustomed to act with me. - (Iro-
nical cheering from the Ministerial benches.) During the
last five years these gentlemen were in the habit
of coming to Downing-street to consult with me
when I had any communication to make them.-(Hear.) I
asked the gentleman who summoned them whether there were
any Members of this House among them who had not been
summoned to Downing-street ever since the general election of
1847 ? And he told me that there was not a single person
summoned to that meeting who had not been summoned on
previous occasions.- ( near.) Therefore it was a political
meeting of those with whom I have been accustomed to act
which has been called by the name of an alliance. There
was but one person who had never been summoned to pre-
vious meetings of the kind to which I have referred, and
that was my Right lion. Friend the Member for Ripon
(Sir J. Graham), whom I think I was perfectly justified in
consulting.-(Cheers.) What has been the case with re-
spect to that Hon. Gentleman ? -Upon the misfortune oc-
curring to the Government of the death of Lord Auckland,
I asked my Right Hon. Friend to accept the post of First
Lord of the Admiralty. He declined, for reasons that it
is not necessary to enter upon now, at the same time ac-
companying his refusal with many expressions of personal
regard to me, and a general expression of agreement with
respect to our commercial policy. More than once I asked
him to join the Government of which I was the head. lie
certainly declined to join us, but with renewed expres-
sions of the same kind. I may likewise say that
I have upon matters of public importance communicated
to my Right Hon. Friend the course I proposed to take with
respect to many political proceedings, so that it was natural
should wish to consult him with respect to the great ques-
tion of commercial policy upon which he, as a colleague of
Sir R. Peel, had taken a great part.-(Hear, hear.) It was
most natural that I should so consult him, and it was not
dishonourable either to him or to me that I should do so.-
(Cheers.) At that meeting those gentlemen took a part
who had been most prominent in diseussions upon the corn-
laws and upon free trade, and they gave their opinion as to
the course that ought to be pursued. I consider that I was
not only justified in convening that meeting, but that it was
incumbent upon me to call such a meeting, to consider whe-
ther, upon the one hand, the rules of the Constitution should
he suspended or set aside, and on the other, whether the
consequences of that suspension would not be that the coun-
try would be for seven or eight months quite uncertain about
the course of commercial policy that would be pursued.
As to the groands upon which this extraordinary political
position has been taken, the case has been very simple. The
former Ministers had resigned, and the present Ministry ac-
cepted office. But that was not enough. They were not
satisfied with that forbearance on
position, but they proposed an extraordi-
narymaking an extraordinary
part of the House of Commons, and,
misters, they put inery assumption on the part of Mi.
It was forward
a new pretences to justify it.-
(Hear, hear.)
had
greatest surprise to me to hear I
them declare that they
we
been called upon unexpectedly
to fill the offices thatdesteruhad abandoned-that they had
taken no part in the
of the Ministry-and that
nothing but the pain of seeitattitonethe Sovereign left without a
Government had induced
the
Opposition.)
utht• accept office.-(Loud
cheers and laughter from
Sir, I must say
that this pretence is a false one.-Vlaamtl)
which, if successfs
broughtued forward
from
the same quarter.) Last year they
must
Chancel-
lor put
proposed a
an end to the Government. Last
av4elmadhe it
neces-
sary plans
c e
of the Exchequer
vfla scheme which, if
financial
adopted, would hive altered khe °le
of the Government, and would h
from fn
sary for the Government to retire
the o; ee•--(Cheers.)
There were also motions regarding
income-tae, the
window-tax, the government of Ceylon, and others, and,
throughout the session, they were forward in pushing on the
consideration of motions which, if carried, must have been
destructive of the Government.--(Cheers.) Ido not say
that they were not motions which they were justified in
bringing forward, but I only say that such a course was to-
tally inconsistent with the pretexts that are now put for.
ward.-(Cheers.) At the end of the last session the Chan-
cellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr. Christopher) at-
tended a Protectionist meeting at Edinburgh, at which he
said that, although Lord Derby had declined office, yet that
he was then perfectly ready, and that if any offer were
made to him to form an Administration he was ready to
accept it.-(Cheers.) This was the tone of the
Right Honourable Gentleman. But, as was said of
Demosthenes, "Si ipsum. auclivissetis."-(A laugh)-I have
no doubt his language was most expressive and eloquent.
At the commencement of the present session the first thing
I heard was, that their list was ready, that the new
Ministry were prepared to take office, and one nomi-
nation I heard of was, that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Walpole) was ready to quit the Chancery bar, of which he
was an ornament, and accept the office of Secretary of State
for the Home Department. That was in the very first
days of February, and yet at the end of February these
s, Gentlemen are quite surprised and astonished that they
found themselves in officell-(Much cheering and laughter. )
I have mentioned the discreditable motion relative to the
Earl of Clarendon, a motion of which the most Hon. Members
of Parliament connected with Hon. Gentlemen opposite were
so
.aehamed that they left the House without voting, and
uiniebY gave us a considerable majority against so unfair
and
so unworthy a proposal.-(Cries of " No, no," from the
e...tc istenal side,and
cheers
from the Opposition.) So con-
firmed is he in that belief, that e the Noble Lord who brought
forward that motion is, very properly, anxious to wipe away
the reproach (;.
having
nothing but the exigenciesbeen its au , thor and declares that
and desires of party could have
induced him to bring it forward.- (Oh ? from the Ministerial
benches, and cheers fr m the Opposition.) A case occurred
last year which showed, PP •e 1
so far from being anxious to avoid
office, how ready that pasty were to accept office. During
the discussion on the
Gentleman who does not usually
carry many Members with
him, gave notice of a motion. 1 had •
tion to the matter, but one day, •
y, about 3 or 4 o'clock in the
afternoon, I saw it Announced in a second edition of a morning
paper that all the leaders of the Protectionist party had
agreed to act in concert with the gentlemen who were the
opponents of the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill, and it was as-
sorted in this newspaper that the h
Government would be out
next day. Well, thoug was late, I desired that all the
friend's of the Government Should be summoned for this
discussion, and the amendment was rejected. But this is
evidint proof how ready lion. Gentlemen opposite were
to join with any party to defeat the Government and com-
pel them ass resi en.-
, (Hear, hear.) It appears now that
the ineCeee- of the motion of the Noble Lord the Mem-
ber for Tiverton was quite, unexpected by those gentle-
men, that they had no share in it, and that it was entirely
earned by Hon. Gentlemen who were friends of the Noble

THE SUN,

Lord and o ours.—(A laugh.) Now, the facts do not bear
this out. The Noble Lord (Palmerston) was, no doubt, like
other persons, persuaded of the value and importance of
his proposition, but he was not likely to carry that pro-
position by those who usually go with him. Out of 136
Members who followed the Noble Lord, not above thirteen
usually voted with the Government, and seven of those are
not usually supporters of the Government on many public
questions of the day.—(Hear, hear.) While, on the other
hand, among those who voted with the Noble Lord I find
the names of the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, the
Secretary of State for the Home Department, the Secretary
of State for the Colonies, the President of the Board of
Trade, and the Chief Commissioner of Works--(Hear)—and,
in addition to these five Members of the Cabinet, I find the
names of the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, the Chief
Secretary for Ireland, two Secretaries of the Treasury, and
the Solicitor-General for Ireland. In all 24 Members of the
present Government voted in favour of that motion ! ( Cheers.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman talked of the late Government
having been overthrown by the internal dissensions of its
own supporters. For what is all this? I have already said
that the position which Ministers occupy is a perfectly fair
one, and I cannot conceive why they should attempt to put
a gloss and false colour upon facts which show that they were
anxious to overturn the late Administration. They were
justified in doing so if they thought we were not carrying
on the Government for the public advantage, and whether
they carried their opposition too far on some occasions it is
for others to judge. They might be satisfied with that de-
fence, instead of which they have taken the extraordinary
course of seeking every:kind of false pretence.—(Oh, oh,
groans, and hear, hear, which rendered the conclusion of the
sentence inaudible.) Have I not shown it?—(No.) Will
the House deny that during the whole of last session and at
the commencement of this they did the utmost in their
power, by party motions, to overturn the Government ?
(Hear, hear, and No, no)— and that they were not strangers
to the division which led to the declaration on my
part that I had lost the confidence of the House ?
Far be it from me to find any fault with the individuals
named to the offices in the present Government.
I could not myself understand the reasons for the extraor-
dinary diffidence shown last year, when gentlemen of the
party opposite refused to accept office, and were parties to
the declaration made by Lord Derby, that he could not find
persons competent to fill the several offices of the State.
But neither do I see any reason for the extraordinary confi-
dence now shown, when they say that they will not only
accept office, but carry on the affairs of this great country
in a position which Mr. Pitt was never bold enough to
assume.—(Oh! and laughter.) I allude to the project of
carrying on the affairs of this great country for eleven months
without having the confidence of the House of Commons.
—(Oh and hear.) It is true that in this respect a con-
siderable change has been made in the course of this day.
The declaration made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer
—a declaration which I understand has also been made else-
where—shows the benefit of public discussion. The Govern-
ment now perceive that the position which they have taken
up cannot lee maintained in the face of Parliamentary de-
bate, and they have already—to use the phrase of the Home
Secretary—altered and modified their course. I now come
to the question of commercial policy, and I must declare
that there is something extraordinary in the present position
of the Ministry with regard to it. Their position is not one
of total reserve, neither is it one of open avowal. Every
day produces some change, and every man holds a different
opinion as to the course which the Government intend to
pursue. Step into the street, and the first man you meet will
tell you that Ministers have thrown protection altogether
overboard. Before you proceed teh yards further you meet
another man, who tells you that Government stand firm by
protection, and will propose it in the next Parliament.—
(Laughter.) The consequence is that persons are can-
vassing all over the country, some saying that they will
suppprt the Government as Protectionists and others as
Free-traders. This is a great evil.—(Laughter.) A
Noble Lord to-night said he would tell us what a Protec-
tionist was. I opened my ears at this, expecting to hear a
satisfactory solution of the enigma; but the Noble Lord
disappointed me by saying that a Protectionist means a sup-
porter of the Earl of Derby's Government. Well, but
some men say they are Free-traders, and will support Lord
Derby's Government ; while others say they will support it
because they are Protectionists. In this case Free-trade and
Protection are interchangable terms. This is a matter which
certainly requires some explanation. The Hon. Member for
the North Riding said the farmers of England know who are
their friends. I confess I rather doubt it. lam inclined to
think that it they had known their friends they would have
acted on the advice which I have given them from time to
time.—( Derisive cheers.) I think that advice should have
caused them to look on me as a friend rather than an enemy.
I beg leave to refer to the advice which I have given the
farmers at different times. In 1841 I said I thought the far-
mers of England ought to accept an Bs. duty. I thought
that great commercial changes were coming—that an altera-
tion of the corn-laws would probably be proposed among
other things, and that it would be advantageous to them to
effect a compromise by accepting a fixed duty. But no, I was
represented all over the country as being the enemy of the
farmers. There can be no doubt, however, that any one who
should now propose an Bs. duty would be deemed a stanch
Protectionist and a great friend of the farmer.—(" Hear,"
and laughter.) In 1e45 I asked the farmers to consent to a
6s. duty and some diminution of the taxes which press par-
ticularly on the agricultural interest. They would not hear
me, and I was still their enemy. In 1849 the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite, in stating the case of the party which
he was leading, seemed to intimate that he was desirous of
having my opinion as to the course he was pursuing. I
answered by stating that the great party of which the Right
Hon. Gentleman was the leader in this House had a tradi-
tional pulicy to maintain, and I advised them to give up
protection. I believe I was then acting as the farmers' friend.
If the party had given up protection in 1849 they would
now be in a much better position than that in which they
stand.—( Hear, hear.) They would have avoided the diffi-
culty now before them. Consider the difficulty in which
they have placed themselves. From 1849 to the
present time they have talked to the farmers of scarcely
anything else but protection. Last year a deputation went
to Lord Derby, bearing resolutions which enforced the
necessity of reversing the financial and commercial policy
of Sir R. Peel; and Lord Derby, in addressing them, ex-
pressed a hope that what he then said would for ever secure
him against being misrepresented as having abandoned
protection. So matters have gone on up to the present time,
and now we are told that the utmost that is to be done is
the imposition of a duty so small that it will not make an
appreciable difference in price, and even this will not be
proposed unless Lord Derby has not only a great majority in
Parliament, but also the concurrence of the country. This
distinction between the country and the House of Commons,
by the bye, sounded strangely from one who refused to make
any change in the representation.—(Hear, hear.) It is
evident that a duty which is to affect prices to an inappre-
ciable extent, and which is to be obtained only by a great
majority of the House of Commons, in concurrence with the
country, will not be obtained at all, and if obtainable would
not be worth having. This specimen of protection reminds
me of an illustration used in this House a century ago by
Mr. Pulteney, who said some proposition of the Minister
bronght to his mind the story of Sir Epicure Ddammore who
after having been led to expect for a long time that he would
obtain the philosopher's stone, at last could get only some-
thing to cure the itch.—(Laughter and Oh.) The fixed d sty
having departed, there is next some talk about removrig
burdens which pressed upon agriculture to the extent of two
or three millions ; an objectionable plan in itself, besides
which it would afford relief to the extent of only 3d. or 6ce
in the pound. What would such relief as this, or a duty
producing an inappreciable rise of price be, compared with
the descent of price caused by the repeal of the corn-laws
from 565. to 38s. or 40s. a quarter? Is there no danger in
leading the farmers to suppose that they can obtain an equi-
valent for what they have lost? The Honourable Member
for the North Riding asked what we had to do with the
opinions of the farmers. I beg to say that we have a great
deal to do with them, because, although founded on
mistaken views of their own and the general interest, they
have great weight in this House and the country. I re-
member that during the discussion on the repeal of the corn-
laws in 1846, although I regretted to see a strong and able
opposition directed against a measure which I thought ne-
cessary to the safety of the country, I found consolation in
the circumstance that the farmers and the country gentle-
men of England were acting in unison, and that the farmers
would continue to follow their natural leaders. If, however,
after having led them to expect the restoration of
protection you should finally abandon it, the tenantry, in-
stead of choosing the country gentlemen of England for
their representatives, will choose from among themselves
persons who have not such Conservative notions. A very
considerable person, a man of the greatest sagacity in this
country, said to me not long ago—" People talk of dema-
gogues and the danger of democracy, but for my part I
believe that some of the tenant-farmers of England are more
democratic than any other class."—(" Oh!" and laughter.)
I will not tell on what authority I snake this statement, but
if I were to do so you would admit it to be high authority.—
(" Name, name.") I must decline naming my authority. I
am giving merely an opinion ; if I were stating a fact I
might be asked for the name.
,Another mode by which the
farmers are to be relieved is a revision of taxation. It is
easy to talk of a revision of taxation, but when it comes to
be considered it will be found to involve a great deal that
Right Hon. Gentlemen will hardly like to encounter. In
1830 Mr. Huskisson made a speech in which he requested
the House to consider how great a portion of our taxation
fell upon articles which entered into the consumption of the
great body of the people and called upon it to weigh the
danger attendant on such a system.—(Hear, hear.) Sir R.
Peel had done much to alter the proportion of taxes borne
by the bulk of the population ; but those who have read a
speech made by a Protectionist in another country must
have seen that we have not gone as far in that direction as
France. M. Thiers, in one of the most able arguments in
favour of protection I ever read, which was delivered when
there was a free Assembly in France, and made a great im-
pression, said "You ask us to imitate the example of Eng-
land. We have already gone far beyond her. France pays
18,000,0001.
i
sterling of direct taxes and 18,000,0001. of in-
direct taxes.bead
pays about 20,000,0001. of [direct
general els
That being local taxes, and 35,000,0001. of indirect taxes
under the ,
tird of Customs and Excise."—(Hear, hear.)
say that the revision of taxation—a
subject which e
lease
considered when I was in office—is a ques-
tion which requirte the gravest deliberation, and that will
bring you to the conclusion that it is necessary to diminish
indirect and increaagreeadtirrece
direct taxation. I am very unwilling
orrent to
to diminish the
andvlentrmofkwte.heorbetawineubl4y
hmeeadnesngoferthine
oumustffirect taxation, yet that is
the arriveopinion ; andwh
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ha raised e
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very
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Hon. president of the Board otoftame.
in a discussion respectin the income-bteaxforTe
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stohae tyhbelyer
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ynt
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• ht
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These are
wNaoybl;e
and Lord's
eay,con"stitueency,
suppose we pay none o u verY little on
tea? That would be a h
ebeert.t)er
questions
taxing our bread."—(Hear,
which the Hon. Member for the Northßiding thinks 'ee
simple aid easy of solution, but if the Right Hon. Gentlemen
opposite—abandoning protection as odious to the great
mass of the people—apply themselves to the question of
the revision of taxation, they will find that they would be
compelled to carry further the system of direct taxthatindokti,
which Sir R. Peel introduced.—(Hear, hear.)
then, that the Government, before going to a general
election, ought to state, without going into detail, what
course they intend to pursue, in order that the country
may know something of the issue which it has to try. It
is very well to ask the House of Commone to show for-
bearance, but, on the other hand, I think we ought not to
be treated with contumely and superciliousness.—( Oh, oh- )
The Noble Lord at the head of the Government has tried to
raise a fresh issue—one which,l think, he has no right to raise
—and with respect to which he has no more claim to the ap-
probation of the country than any other party. The Noble
Lord has raised an issue which appears to me astonishing—
namely, that he is Minister in order to prevent an outbreak of
democracy. I have had the honour of being First Minister
of the Crown during five years, and I cannot see that during
that period democracy has made any encroachment on the
just prerogatives of the Crown, or the authority of the two
Houses of Parliament. The throne is guarded by the virtues
of the Sovereign, and the two Houses of' Parliament maintain

their just authority. I have, however, learnt a lesson from
the scenes which have passed before my eyes during no in-
considerable experience in this House. The first political
meeting I remember to have attended was a meeting of
Lords and Commons of the Whig party at Burlington House,
on which occasion Earl Grey addressed them. That was in
1817. Lord Grey addressed the Lords, and Mr. Ponsonby,
as leader in the Commons, addressed the Commons. They
told us that a Bill was to be introduced for the suspension of
the habeas corpus, and that other Bills were to follow,
restorative of the liberties of the subject. Those Bills were
not found sufficient, and in 1819 six other Acts were intro-
duced still further to restrict the privileges of the subject,
and to prevent the outbreaks of the demecracy. Demo-
cracy was then to be feared. We heard frequently of at-
tempts at insurrection, and the beginnings of riot. We
had even the sorrowful spectacle of spies sent out by the
Home Secretary, who misused, as spies are apt to do, the
power and trust confided in them, and brought, even to
capital punishment, some of their victims who had been
seduced into rebellion.—(Hear, hear.) That was indeed a
melancholy (spectacle. At one time it was said that the
factory workers from Manchester were about to march upon
London ; at another time that an insurrection had broken
out at Derby, and was likely to spread over the whole coun-
try.—(Hear, hear.) Afterwards a change took place in the
executive Government; Sir R. Peel became Home Secre-
tary, and Mr. Canning Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and it
was followed by a change in our position both at home and
abroad. Sir Robert Peel turned his attention to the amend-
ment of the criminal law with the greatest argument and
firmness, and at the same time with lenity, and paid much
regard to all that related to the domestic government of the
country.— (Hear, hear.) Mr. Canning proclaimed the sen-
timent of " the cause of civil and religious liberty all
over the world," and this House and the country re-
sponded to the generous sentiment he had uttered, and to
the admirable policy be pursued.—(Hear, hear,) It was
no longer necessary to have those laws that were so restric-
tive of the liberties of the people. Earl Grey afterwards
succeeded to the administration of affairs, and was followed
successively by Lord Melbourne and Sir Robert Peel, when
the same system was pursued. The Attorney-General, who
had been so active in that former time to which I have re-
ferred, made a more discreet use of the power intrusted to
him, and ceased to contend unnecessarily with offences
against the public peace.—(Hear, hear.) A change took
place—not to the advantage of democracy, not to the advan-
tage, at least, of democratic opinions—but for the benefit of
the great body of the people, who became more attached to
our institutions, more attached to the monarchy, more at-
tached to the authority constituted by the laws of
the country, and thereby more satisfied, and less de-
sirous of any change in our national institutions.—(Cheers.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of
Control told us the other day that he admitted the people
were now in a state of prosperity. That prosperity, as I
believe, is mainly caused by those changes in our com-
mercial policy which have allowed the people, while their
employment has been increased, to obtain with their wages
a greater portion of food, a greater portion of comfort, and to
afford them some surplus for the education of their children
and the cultivation of their own minds.—(Cheers.) These
are the means by which democracy is to be met. If the
Noble Lord now at the head of the Government means to re-
sort to other means—if the laws that he has in contempla-
tion are opposed to the general sentiments of the country—
and if he contemplates that those laws will require to be en-
forced by other means than the present, let me tell him that
instead of discountenancing democracy, he will be the
greatest favourer of that democracy.—(Cheers.) Rely upon
it, that it is not by attempts to reverse the present policy
that you can hope to retain the affections of the people. It
is by a system of quiet, peaceable, and enlightened progress,
by going en without any violent aims or violent convulsions,
but at the same time showing that you have the people's in-
terests at heart, and that you will not abate a jot of the
people's rights.—(Cheers.) Do this, and you may rely upon
it that the attacks of democracy are not to be dreaded.—
(Cheers.) In the meantime, if it is merely intended by that
language to raise an election cry, nothing can be more con-
temptible.—(Great cheering.) Nothing can be more un-
worthy of a Minister who is called upon to preside over the
destinies of this great country.—(Loud cheering.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Sir, the
Noble Lord who has just addressed you, reminded the House
that there were two questioas before us, or, rather,
that the question before us might be viewed in two
aspects—a constitutional and economical view. But I beg
to recall to the House this fact, that the question before it
is one of a much simpler nature—it is the first motion of the
newly-constructed Opposition, and that motion is one to
stop the supplies— (Great cheering and counter-cheers)—
a motion gaily proposed by the Hon. Member for Middlesex,
respectfully recommended by the Hon. Member for Liver-
pool, and I have a right to suppose enforced in a speech,. of
great length and eloquent preparation by the recent irst
Minister of the Crown.—(Cheers and counter. cheers.
O ) We
shall meet the Noble Lord and the newly constructed ppo-
sition on the issue they have themselves selected, and on
that issue we intend to divide.—(Loud
Ministerial
cheers,
and cheers and laughter from the Opposition ) The Noble
Lord seems to be much astonished that any imputation of
faction should for a moment have been raised against him.
We were told, indeed, the other night, by the Noble Lord
or one of his supporters, that it was a new doctrine in the
House to suppose that asking questions of a new Ministry.
was factious ; but I do not think that the charge of faction
on the leader of the new Opposition was established on
any dicta of such a character. 1 understood that the Noble
Lord, when in the position of First Minister of the Crown,
and unable, in consequence of the attacks of his own friends,
to carry on the affairs of the country—(Oh, oh)—felt, by
his own confession, and after deliberation with his Cabinet,
that it was inexpedient to dissolve Parliament, and that
they then recommended her Majesty to send to another in-
dividual to form a Government. What we think is factious
in the Noble Lord is, that after that declaration he should
have constructed . an Opposition, the first principle of
which is to force his successor to an immediate dissolution.—
(Loud cheers.) But, says the Noble Lord, a remarkable
event occurred between my declaration as a retiring Minister
and my first adventure as the leader of the new Opposition.
A speech was made, and a speech, too, in another piece,
in which was this remarkable declaration—that the new
Government, acording to the chief of the Administration,
was in a minority in the House of Commons; and upon
that phrase the Noble Lord felt himself justified in changing
his conduct.—(Hear, hear.) " Because that phrase was
used," the Noble Lord said, "and notwithstandihg my de-
claration that a dissolution was inexpedient, I now feel my-
self justified in urging a dissolution of that very Parliament
which I had said should net be dissolved."—(Hear.) But,
indeed, the Noble Lord is so deficient in evidence to prove
the want of confidence of the present House of Commons
in the existing Government, that he can refer to no facts, he
can appeal to no votes to justify the opinion or sanction the
conclusion he has arrived at. All he can do is to urge a,
phrase used in another place, and one employed
by the Right Honourable Gentleman the Secretary for the
Colonies. Now, I ask, if expressions of this kind are to
be considered as conclusive of the disposition of
the House of Commons? Are expressions of this
kind to justify
.the Noble Lord in totally changing his
policy on a subject of such immense importance, and leading:
to such considerablconsiderableresults ?—(Cheers.) I have arrived at;
a different conclusion on the subjeot from the Noble Lord..
All the precedents which he has found to apply to this sub-
ject are precedents of condemned Governments.— (Hear,
hear.)
.And really to place our position, condemned only by
the too friendly or too modest calculations of an individual,
in the same catalogue with those Ministers that, after long
discussion and great deliberation, and in some instancest
quoted by the Noble Lord in Houses of Commons assembled
under their own influence, have been condemned—to treat;
us as if we were in a similar position, because it is conve-
aient to the change of position of the Noble Lord, is to mot
one of the boldest expedients that ever was adopted even ira
tae annals of opposition.—(Hear, hear.) But under what
c rcumstances did the Noble Lord have recourse to this
position ? I refer to them without apology, because
an enumeration of them formed not the least con-,
sidirable and not the least interesting part of the
Nolle Lord's address. The Noble Lord said,—" Have:
I not a right to summon my public friends to my prie
vete house? I hear that other leaders in Parliament.
assemble their friends together, and surely I am not well
treated when you are so severe on me because I ask to my
private residence my friends to assist me with their counsel."
—(Hoar.) Now, if the Noble Lord had only asked those•
friends who had voted for him on the militia question-.•
(A laugh)—if he had only asked those friends who were
absent on that occasion to assemble at his house, and if
they hid atoned for the past and counselled for the future,
I am stre not a single observation would have been made.
—(A laugh.) It would have been concluded that all wets
exactly .11 harmony with the declaration which the Noblis
Lord hac made in his last official speech from the Minis-
terial beeches. But instead of that, we find by the autho-
ritative statement that has been published, that the Noble
Lord does not address his friends, but his enemies.—(.!l
laugh.) Ile addresses those who made his Government un-
comfortab.e, and said, " Gentlemen, you see what it has al I
ended in. Let us forget the past; let us understand each
other for ;he future. You have a superstitious prejudieie
against oligarchical Cabinets : forget the past, and the oli-
garehial Cabinet shall become a broad-bottomed Opposition.
—(Cheers end laughter.) The Reform Bill of this year did
not please :sou, but let bygones be bygones, and we shall
understand each other, I have no doubt, on that subject."—
(Cheers and laughter.) That was the character of the meet-
ing, and it seems to have been successful. The Noble
Lord appears in his new capacity, and the moment he
does appear, he announces a course on his part exactly
the reverse tf that which he had announced when he matt
on this bend.—(Cheers.) But there must be an excuse
for this, and the excuse was half-a-dosen words of a speecih
delivered by Lord Derby, and an expression in answer to .a
question made use of by the Right Honourable Gentleman
the Secretary for the Colonies—(Hear, hear)—the easiest
reason for the greatest result that probably ever was die-
covered.—(Hear, hear.) But the Noble Lord also discovered
that he had been ill-treated by the Opposition, now the oc-
cupants of the Ministerial benches. The Noble Lord hes
been an unfortunate Minister.—(A laugh.) He was worried.
—(A laugh.) After such a long and illustrious experience as
the Noble Lord has had—after all that has occurred to him
since that meeting at Burlington-house, where they were
addressed by Mr. Poasonby about the sad mancenvres of
Lord Sidmoath's spies, who would have thought the Noble
Lord could have been worried in office by a Protectionis t
Opposition;—(Cheers and laughter.) He was worried,
too, by loisoned weapons—by a motion about Lord
Clarendon, and by a menaced attack on Lord Grey--
he was worried by a commanding majority on the first
motion, ard by the second not being brought on.—(Laugh-
ter.) And now, when the Noble Lord indulges in these as-
sertions and in criticisms on his opponents,. would it not be
better to turn his reproaches on those political friends and
followers who, on the critical night that turned out the late
Government, did not muster to the number of 130?
I cannot help thinking that some more important reason may
be found for the overthrow of the Ministry than a debate
upon Lord Clarendon, and a menaced . attack upon Lord
Grey, which was certainly escaped, I will not say evaded.
—(A laugh.) I have now put before the. House an an-
swer to the Noble Lord as to the exact issue before us.
It is a motion of the new Opposition to stop the supplies,
so far as I can collect, sanctioned by the late First Minister
of the Crown,—(No, no.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—I made no such motion.—(Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I have to
of the lire.
beg the Noble Lord's pardon. I listened attentively to the
speech of the Noble Lord, expecting that after he had con-
cluded. the interesting narrative and amusing arguments with
whTiehheheeHhAadutfiAtivAoNvuorethdereurseadhe would at last have con-
descended to announce that'he did not sanction the proposal
e
mates.— ritlseomfb,.erThfeorre,Ms
nidodsloesoehxmtootionne.gltive these esti-
mates.—(Cries
was received for the number
the question before the Com-
mittee—namely, a
The CHANCELLOR._offheExcaE of men for the army,
with cheers by the Opposition, there
being no mention of any amendment.
motion before the Committee • but I understood that the
Hon. Member for Middlesex n'otonlyannounced his QUER.—That is the
deter-
mination to expose the motion, but also his intention to di-
vide upon it.—(" No, no.") It gives me pleasure to under-
stand that that the Noble ord has receded from the perilous
position he was in.—(" Oh, oh!" and cheers.) I am glad
the House understands that on; second thoughts the Noble
Lord does not support the amendment.---(" Oh, oh :" and
Ministerial cheers.) I will now advert to the second part of

the question according to the Noble Lord's division of it. I do
not exactly understand what the Noble Lord wishes the Go-
vernment to do on this occasion. He has said that
there has been to a certain degree a great want of reserve,
and, on the other hand, that there has not been that explicit
declaration of principles that would be acceptable to him.
He admits himself that there has been, to a certain degree,
an absence of reserve, though not such a declaration as he
would require. Perhaps an impartial judge might think that
on the whole our declaration was as explicit as was neces-
sary.—(" No, no !") Hero is the Hon. Gentleman, the
Member for Liverpool, who gave us a grave admonition to-
night, and he I most clearly understood as sanctioning the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Middlesex.—(" No, no.")
Mr. CARDWELL—I beg to inform the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman that the idea of refusing the number of men necessary
for the army, or giving a negative to the proposal before the
House, never entered my head.—(Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—There is
another proof of the advantage of discussion. I should like
to hear if there is any other seceder from the Opposition,
and I shall be curious to ascertain who has the courage to
follow the Hon. and Gallant Member for Middlesex.—
(Cheers.) I tell the Noble Lord, that when we go to the
country the issue is as distinct as in such circumstances it
ever has been. It is clearly an issue whether the country
has confidence in the present Administration, or whether
it has not.—(" No, no," and cheers.) It is clearly an
issue whether the agricultural interest believe or do not
believe that if we remain in power we will do our utmost
to redress the grievances of which they justly complain.
—(Cheers.) 1 believe the issue is distinctly understood
by them, and, notwithstanding the speeches of the Noble
Lord and his new ally the Hon. Member fur the West
Riding, that they are perfectly satisfied that that isses
should be placed before them.—(Cheers.) I was
reminding the Hon. Member for Liverpool that he had
founded his lecture upon the conduct of Sir Robert Peel in
cslasnir4nt i
Roberto
in
the
1841 ; but I might also remind the Hon. Gentleman (I don't
wish to make more of the instance than it deserves), but still
I might remind one who is a most fervent admirer of that
eminent personage, that in 1835 Sir Robert Peel professed
upon this subject very different opinions, and pursued a
very different course from what he subsequently adopted.
I
soi
Peel in 1835 were those which he entertained
m
in
Pee upon myself as to say that the opinions
of
at the same time I must observe that the circum-
stances are different from those of the present time.
There
not now any vote proposed of a want of con-
fidence existing Government by the existing
House of Commons. I think it would be more decent
to propose a vote of that kind previous to a motion
for stopping the supplies.—(Ministerial cheers.) The
Noble Lord has dwelt much upon the unconstitutional
conduct of the Government in presuming to carry on the
affairs of the country in the present state of the House of
Commons ; but I think it is rather a large assumption on
the part of the Noble Lord to state that the Government is
the Ministerial benches.) If the state of the House had
been undoubtedly in favour of the Government it must be
quite
vh e unableh it t
evidentowas carry Y measures in this House.— (Loud cheers from
forward at the termination of a Parliament those measures
that the Earl of Derby would not have brought
forward on the responsibility of the Government. It was
ca
understood he was pledged ultimately to bring
distinctly understood by the country, and accepted by the
country, that no attempt to redress the grievances of the
agricultural interest should be made until the public voice
had been taken. Had we been assured of a majority on ac-
ceding to office, it would not have prevented us from pur-
suing the course we are about to take, namely, to advise
her Majesty to refer the question now pending to the people.
But as regards the result of an appeal, even to this waning
Parliament, after all that has occurred, and after all that
has been said as to our not obtaining a majority, I
want to know why are we to assume that the Noble
Lord can command a greater number of followers
than ourselves?—(Ministerial cheers ) When the Noble
Lord accepted office in 1846 he certainly did not
accept it with a party so powerful as that which now
honours the present Government with their support.— (Hear,
hear.) The Noble Lord came into office and was con-
fessedly
in that instance as we are at present, in a minority.
The Noble Lord had not a majority of followers in support of
his Policy, but he proceeded to propose a measure which im-
mediately placed his Government in danger by the over-
whelming majority of Sir R. Peel, and had the followers of
that
the Noble Lord must have been left in a large minority.
Right Hon. Gentleman acted upon their convictions
But Sir Robert Peel rose and said that he did not approve of
the measures which the Government were then pursuing,
but at the same time he did not wish to see the opportunity
of proceeding with the Government taken out of the hands
of the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord did not on that occa-
sion dissolve Parliament, although he was pursuing a policy
' on which the country wished to express an opinion,
but he went on with his Government, and he
was justified in doing so ; just as I conceive
we are at this moment justified in the course we
are now pursuing. I am most sensibly aware of
the great difficulties which a new Government, consisting in
many instances of inexperienced men, have to encounter, but
I have confidence in the good sense and good temper of the
House of Commons ; and nothing has yet occurred to make
me lose that. I don't understand any existing reasons for
me to suppose that the judicial measures which it is in-
tended the Government should bring forward will not be
supported by a majority. With that conviction, I will not
defer to the ignoble opinion that her Majesty's present Gover-
nment is existing on suffrance.—(Loud cheers from the Mi-
nisterial benches.) lam grateful for support, but Ido not
deprecate hostility. But, if the feelings shown by the Noble
Lord should be acted upon in the spirit he has
this evening evinced, I do not hesitate to say that they
partake lof a factious spirit, and I believe the Noble Lord
will not be supported by a majority of this House. If mea-
sures are brought forward deserving the approbation of the
House of Commons, I believe the House will support
those measures. The Noble Lord has made some observations
to which perhaps I ought not to allude, because the Noble
Lord evidently addressed himself to a speech made in an-
other assembly by another person. But in an elaborate ad-
dress by Lord Derby that Noble Lord took occasion to ex-
press an opinion that the present Government was entitled
to support, because it was a barrier to democratic innovation.
To this the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Russell) says,
" Democratic innovation ! Why, was I not a barrier to
democratic innovation ? When have their attempts been
successful? Have they not in every instance been checked
and successfully resisted?" Yes, I admit all that; but
allow me to ask the late First Minister of the Crown, by
whose aid was he successful ?—(Ministerial cheers.) By
what means was the menacing democracy repelled ? By
whose aid was the Noble Lord enabled to defeat those large
schemes of Parliamentary reform of which the Noble Lord
was wont to speak with derision and contumely? And,
when an ex-Minister discourses so learnedly and eloquently
upon the public credit of the country, and on the difficulties
of revising taxation, let me ask him when a proporstion
which would have at once reduced the taxation of the
, and that voluntarily, was pro-
the very individual whom he has
ham-place—(Load cheers from the
hat was it that prevented him and
supported him on the Militia Bill
oenues
c ]Ministerialene pro-
posed
syotuem bg tmyehnboi
gentlemen
OeneHm,
summoned
benches)—what
teuonoss, o)ewc_O
hbOia
oWye
s/
from acceding to so disastrous a proposition? The Noble
Lord has confessed to a misapprehension of the meaning of
Lord Derby which I did not expect from him. It has
not entered into the mind of Lord Derby, in any policy
itwhich
shouldhe may recommend Parliament to support, that
force to uphold it. Lord Derby said he was pre-
pared to be a policy which will require physical
uphold the venerable and valuable institu-
tions
advance of
of
thin country.freedom
provement to be checked and
physical power to be invoked ; but what he meant was
that, being himself animated by a feeling of true patriotism,
em
an
It was not that he wished the
dm
and believing Parliament was prepared to support a policy
founded upon national honour, that when that appeal to
the country should be made which is now pending, he
would meet with such large support that he should be
able to originate in Parliament measures which he
believed to be necessary, and that he should be able to pass
them, and find himself to be a successful and powerful
Minister, because he placed the highest confidence in the
support of the English people, believing himself to be sup-
ported alike by the favour of his Sovereign and the confi-
dence of his fellow-subjects.—(The Right Hon. Gentleman
resumed his seat amid much cheering.)
Mr. BRIGHT did not mean to discuss the various ques-
tions alluded to—not even the principle of free trade, for that
was not before them. The question was, whether a Go-
vernment formed of a minority which had declared the
policy of the majority
to be pestiferous and dan-
gerous, should be allowed to administer public affairs, with-
out appealing at once to the people. If a minority of 230
could carry on the affairs of the country, so might a mino-
rity of 30 or 40 do so, and claim the forbearance of the
House. The delay that had taken place without any alarm
or danger since the meeting of Parliament proved that mea-
sures of national defence were not urgent, and might be
postponed till a new Parlioment. He did not blame Hon.
Members opposite for taking office or for their conduct in
opposition. One party was not more factious than the other.
If, however, Hon. Gentlemen opposite changed their opinions
on a question of public policy when they changed sides, re-
spect for public men would be diminished. From 1842 to
1846 the policy of Sir R. Peel was towards free trade, and
the last great advance was made in a case of great
emergency. But were Honourable Gentlemen opposite
about to abandon protection without having any
grounds similar to those on which rested the change of Sir
R. Peel's opinion. It was not long since that the Protec-
tionists endeavoured to excite the farmers against the com-
mercial classes. He recollected reading a report of a meet-
ing of farmers in Cambridgeshire, at which one of them
stated that he would as soon march on Manchester as on
Paris.—(Hear.) That was not unlikely.—(A laugh.) Per-
haps the farmer in question feared sea-sickness. Another
boasted that the farmers had more horses than the other
classes, and knew how to ride them. lie believed that the
Noble Marquis
Opposite, the Member for Stamford, was the
most consistent member of the Protectionist party. In of
out of that House the Noble Marquis had always held the
same tone, and it was not, therefore, suprising that the Noble
Marquis was not a member of the Cabinet. He felt cer-
tain that if the Noble Marquis had had a seat at the council
table, he never would have consented to a course of con-
duct so ambiguous as to excite suspicion. He appealed to
the Hon. Member for Somersetshire to state his opinion of
protection. It was of no use denying protection, for in
the House and out of it, and in the press of the Protec-
tionists—the Morning Herald, Morning Post, Standard
—there had been a constant cry for protection.
The ditculties of the Government were difficulties which
had arisen out of the impossible policy they advocated when
in opposition, and they were not ditculties from which
they should be allowed to escape until they had either
recanted their Protectionist principles, or appealed to the
constituencies to decide the question for them.—(Cheers.)
What that (the Opposition) aide of the House wanted was
a dissolution of Parliament, for they felt confident that the
judgment of the country would be pronounced in favour of
the policy of 1846 and if the Government felt the same
confidence in the contrary policy they would be quite as
eager to dissolve as they were now afraid of taking that
step. Their organ in the press boasted that the Ministers
had been re-elected everywhere without opposition, and
that th:s showed a most remarkable unanimity—of course,
a unanimity as between the Marquis of Exeter and the Earl
of Egmont.—(A laugh.) What were those Ministers as
representatives of the people ? Take, for esample, the Pre-
sident of the India Board (Mr. Herries). The whole popu-
lation that Right Hon. Gentleman professed to represent
was 2,000 persons—men, women, and children. Of course his
real constituency was my Lord Exeter—(Laughter and
cheers.) Take next the Secretary for the Colonies (Sir J.
it was said,
had That Right Hon. Gentleman,
a,
had the good fortune to return himself—(Hear,
he lived and
d in a
laugh)—and, as might naturally be expected, h
state of uninterrupted harmony with his constituents.—(Loud
De art-
' laughter.) Take, also, the Secretary for the Home p
Bright) would not pass
ment (Mr. Walpole), and he (Mr. Ilri
by that opportunity of saying, that he wet n
quithessurs that
any Member in the House would regret to se!s t t Right
Hon. and Learned Gentleman in the distinguished pest he
now filled—(General cheering)—but that Right Hon. Gen-
tleman represented a constituency of 7,021 persons only ; and
the whole population represented by these three Cabinet
Ministers amounted to but 23,050 persons—men, women,
and children—whilst the actual number of electors on the
registry was 1,212.—(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition.)
After alluding to the boroughs of Buckingham, Chichester,
Foterarield, Lisburn, and Portarlingto, Mr. Bright said

that the Attorney-General (Sir F. Thesiger) sat for a
population nominally of 5,954, with an electoral list of 241
`names; but he dared the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to
deny that, at the election in 1847, the bribery and corrup-
tion on both sides in that borough of Abingdon were such
that both petitions were withdrawn for fear the borough
might be disfranchised.-( Laughter and dissent.) He
warned the Government, then, that if they persisted in the
attempt to govern the country through nomination counties
and little pocket boroughs, they themselves were the men
who would be weakening the attachment of the people to
the institutions under which they livid, and breaking down
the barriers of the democracy which they appeared so much
to dread.-(Opposition cheering.) He charged the Govern-
ment that they were conscious that they had not the opinions
of the people with them upon the question of protection ; and
that upon that question they dared not go to the great
constituencies of the United Kingdom. Having
mentioned several places in which free-trade prin-
ciples had made rapid progress amongst the constituencies of
late years, the Hon. Member alluded to the borough of Tam-
worth, and appealed to Mr. Newdegate to state what the
people there said to him upon the subject, when that Hon.
Gentleman was attending a Protectionist dinner in that bo-
rough, in the course of the past year.-(Hear, hear.) And
if that were not evidence enough he would cite the Hon.
Member for Boston (Mr. Freshfield) to give the House his
experience, for he (Mr. Bright) had read a ludicrous ac-
count of that Hon. Member having, at the period of his elec-
tion, been kept on one side of the square whilst his dinner was
kept on the other-an admirable retribution, he thought, on
one who sought to impose a tax upon corn.-(Laughter.) A
fortnight ago, a meeting was held at Manchester, of which
they had all heard; and he observed that the Noble Lord at
the head of the Government had spoken of the subscriptions
which were then entered into as " subscriptions upon
paper."-(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) But he (Mr. Bright)
could assure the House that it required strong arguments on
the part of Mr. Cobden and himself to prevent those sub-
scriptions, large as they were, from being much larger.-
(Oh, oh.) He did not mean more numerous, but much
larger in amount-(Oh, oh, and laughter)-and he yen-
turned to say that if there were the slightest attempt on the
part of Government to reimpose a duty upon corn, and the
thing were, so to speak, in the balance, there was a great
deal more than their corn-laws that would not be safe for
three or six months. The subscriptions at Manchester,
which amounted to 27,0001. at the meeting to which he re-
ferred, had, since reached the sum of 62,0001., and were every
day rapidly increasing.-(Free-trade cheers.) But perhaps
Hon. Gentlemen would go to Ireland for a Protectionist cry.
Let them. They had heard of what had only just taken
place in the county of Kildare, and he doubted it they could
have gone to an election in Ireland with a Member of the
House of Commons against whom personally less could be
said than against Lord Naas.-(Hear, hear.) Yet that
Noble Lord, who had gone down to Kildare in the full con-
sciousness that he would be victorious, had been obliged to
beat a retreat before the opening of the poll or even the day
of nomination.-(Hear, hear.) How could any one expect
to persuade the people of Ireland that they would benefit by
protection when it was found that a long experience of that
system had only landed them in one of the most calamitous
famines that modern times had known ? - (Hear, hear.) He
would ask Hon. Gentlemen opposite whether they would
consider the course they were than pursuing a creditable one,
if it were pursued by their political opponents? Who could
attempt to justify their conduct in sending one set of candi-
dates to the counties to preach protection, and another set of
candidates to the boroughs to say that they were Conserva-
tive Free-traders?-(Hear.) That was a question which the
country would not allow to be trifled with. The uncer-
tainty which had arisen in consequence of the accession
of the present Ministry to office, and the language they had
since used, was undoubtedly very considerable, but he con-
fessed, at the same time, that it was only partial, because
the belief in the power f those gentlemen was but partial.
If, however, it were thought for a moment that they would
recklessly attempt to carry out in power the principles they
had avowed in opposition, they would see a tumult in this
country to which the tumult in 1832 was as but a whisper
to the raging of the hurricane. The uncertainty which sur-
rounded the question might be productive of the worst con-
sequences in foreign countries. In the United States of
America the election of a President was about to take
place, and if it were supposed in that country that the
policy of free trade was about to be reversed in England, the
hands of the anti-free-trade party would become greatly
strengthened, and we should have -no chance of obtaining
one of those reciprocity treaties which Hon. Gentlemen op-
posite advocated. But if those gentlemen were not for the
corn-laws let them say so.-(Hear, hear.) He said dis-
tinctly that if any authorised member of the Government
would boldly avow that the time was past when any duty
could be re-imposed on corn, and that while they were ready
to effect a fair adjustment of the taxation of the country,
they would not tamper with the taxes for the purpose of
affording the agricultural interest a compensation for the
loss they had sustained by the repeal of the corn-laws-he
said that if any authorised member of the Government
would boldly make such an avowal, he believed they
would give great satisfaction to a large number of Con-
servatives throughout the country, and they would never
find him voting for any proposition of a want of confidence
in them as a Government. He would then judge them by
the measures they might bring forward-(Hear, hear)-with
the same independence and the same honest wish to do
his duty to his constituents which he had exhibited in his
conduct towards the Government of the Noble Lord the
Member for London.--( Hear, hear.) But if they were for
protection, and would not say so, then they (the Oppo-
sition Members) would make war upon them. If they
were to carry on an " organised hypocrisy" they (the Oppo-
sition Members) would see whether they could not break
up a confederate imposture; and bad as the representation
of this country was- and no one was more conscious of its
defects than he was-he was perfectly persuaded that if the
party opposite were to dissolve Parliament, and to go to the
constituencies on any duty they might like to propose on
corn, they would find their ephemeral Government scattered
to pieces, and that the united voice of the intelligence of the
free people of this country would condemn the policy which
they had avowed in opposition, and on which they had
scrambled to their seats in power.- (Loud cheers.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL and the Marquis of GRANBY rose
together; but, after a short delay, the former Hon. and
Learned Gentleman gave way, and
The Marquis of GRANBY said he hoped the House
would indulge him for a few moments with its attention,
as he had been so pointedly alluded to by the Hon Mem-
ber who had just sat down.-(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Member had paid him the compliment of saying he looked
upon him as a consistent man. He believed he was so,
and he was prepared to say that he retained the opinions
he had before avowed in the House.-(Hear, hear.) It
had been generally admitted that the free trade policy
had inflicted great injury upon large classes in this
country, and that some means should be attempted
to modify it. He still retained his opinion that
the most advantageous mode of doing so was by im-
posing import duties, thereby making the foreigner pay
the tax, and raising a revenue which would allow the
repeal f other taxes that pressed upon the industry
of the community. He would say that he had every
confidence that Lord Derby and his Government would en-
deavour, if the country would
support them -(A loud
laugh drowned the sound of the words which followed)-
that it would be ridiculous, absurd, and highly mischievous
to attempt to reverse a policy that had been the law of the
land for upwards of five years, supposing the people of the
country are convinced that that policy was just and advan-
tageous.-(Hear, hear.) He thought, therefore, he should
have no difficulty in supporting Lord Derby when he found
him saying, "That for the relief of the farmers, without
any serious difficulty and expenditure being incurred by the
country and thrown upon other Glasses, a moderate imposi-
tion of duty would produce a large revenue, and thereby
enable other taxation to be taken off, and that such a duty
would hardly produce an appreciable effect on the price of
food." Honourable Gentlemen on the other side of the
House had taken great pains that evening to show that
they were not factious in the opposition they were now
making to the Government; but if their conduct was not
factious, it was very difficult to say what factious conduct
could be. The Noble Lord opposite, when he was at the
head of the Government, said he thought a dissolution
was most undesirable, and would be attended with great dif-
ficulty and inconvenience. Now, he wanted to know if,
when the Noble Lord was at the head of the Government,
that would be the case, why it was not equally disadvanta-
geous to the interests of the country to require a dissolution
now ? But if he was unable, from the speeches of the Noble
Lord, to discover why he was so anxious for a dissolution,
he might, perhaps, be allowed to suggest that it might be
that the Noble Lord and those who supported him were
afraid
,if a dissolution were delayed that the prosperity of
which they had heard so much would diminish, and that
the tide of emigration, instead of setting towards the western
shores, would again set into the workhouses.-(Hear.) He
had heard with deep pain the speech of the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Ripon, because he knew the in-
fluence that anything that fell from him must have not only
in that House but in the country; but the Right Hon.
Baronet had indulged in similar warnings on former occa-
I Mons, and had shown that his opinions were not unchange-
' able nor his judgment unerring. He hoped the present Go-
' vernment would not be deterred by any threats or any inti-
midation from doing what they believed to be their duty to
the country.-(Cheers.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it was not his inten-
tion to take any part in a debate that was sufficiently dis-
cussed, but that he was actually dragged into it by the per-
sonal allusion of the Hon. Member for Manchester. What
he felt was the attack that had been made upon his personal
character and honour, which he was desirous of repelling in
the most distinct manner possible. The Honourable Mem-
ber for Manchester (Mr. Bright) had challenged him to
deny that in the election of 1847, or afterwards, he had
entered into a corrupt agreement to suppress charges of
bribery.-(" No, no," from Mr. Bright.) Well, then, an
agreement, not corrupt, to suppress charges of bribery, in
order to prevent the disfranchisement of the borough of
Abingdon. The Committee might be aware that in the
election of 1847 he was returned by a very slender majority
of two, by an extraordinary and rather amusing incident.
Two petitions were presented against that return, both of
which contained charges of bribery. One of themat
prayed for the seat, and the other merely th a
the election be declared void. Where a petition claimed the
seat, and contained charges of bribery, it was
tehpeenopp toosite
party petitioned against to recriminate upon
party. Before the period had arrived whenothheio:?, omthmatitttheee
were to try it an application was made t
charges of bribery should be abandoned e
eo
answer was this-heknew personally sides
eafiectiledia,
and that if any agent of his, or he hoped that such
onn 1 both
oht
responsible, had been guilty of
ob bribery, !inr yepye:son for whom he was
Committee, and that
party would be exposed before
he would be no party to any
whatever might be the rersu
and cheers.) Immediately after
compromise.-(Hear,
hear,
to him, and his answer given,
that suggestion
wasf
r the seat was abandoned. There
the petition praying
then stood the peti.tioneawohdicehheperfaythede themchearerglyesfocron twined
n_deedc lie; art
He believed it was on a Monday
tion of a void election,
was a charge of bribery
rffiery.
when the Committee were to assemble to try the case. On
the Friday evening before an application was made to him
to abandon that petition, providedis n
wouldhaes
er
wconsent s tot
this-there
the costs of the petitioner. His
was a charge of bribery made against him in that petition,
and he would not pay one farthing towards the expenses of
such petition, and the messenger might go back with that
answer.- (Cheers.) Well, the answer went back, and in
about an hour aftewards he was informed that the second
petition was dropped.-(Cheers.) He felt his honour and
character were both saved, because it was impossible for any
one to say that an agreement to suppress a charge of bribery
for the purpose of preventing the disenfranchisement of a
borough would not be a corrupt and scandalous agreement.-
(Hear.) He was the more anxious to stand well in the opi-
nion of that House, because he felt that he would not be
worthy of a seat in it if he had been a party to any such
agreement. He had given the fullest explanation in his
power to the charge that was made against him by the Hon.
Member for Manchester ; and he should like now to know how
that Hon. Member could feel justified in making such
charges without the slightest material or least foundation
for them.-(Cheers)
Mr. BRIGHT-The Committee will bear in mind, that
when I spoke of the borough which the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman represents, I did not make any allusir to any
part he had personally taken.-(Cries of " ! ' from the
Ministerial aide, and cheers from the Opposition.) None