The Sun.
London, England, 1864-06-28 00:00:00

THE STJN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE 28, 1864.

and knowledge we have of the facts of the case, express any
opinion whatever upon that most important decision at
which it appears har Majesty's Government have arrived,
viz., in the present state of affairs to remain perfectly pas-
sive. At the commencement ;of this session I ventured to
express as strongly as I possibly could the infinite danger
in even the possibility of a war with Germany—that power
with which we have been for so many years associated—
our natural ally, which is or has been, unless modern ag-
gressive principles have too far prevailed, the great con-
servative centre counterpoise to the ambition of the Bast
and the West—(hear, hear)—our natural ally, which has
been connected with us by many ties, with whom a war
would be productive of the most serious and lamentable
consequences, not only to them, but to ourselves. (Hear,
hear.) But, my lords, what I expressed also was this—my
fear that her Majesty's Government, by the course which
they pursued, have placed us in a position in which we
should be either subjected to the lamentable consequences
of such a war, or to the discredit in which we should be
held—in which, I fear, we are held—(hear, hear)—by the
whole of Europe, not for having abstained from war now,
but from having for a long period of years held out to both
contending parties menaces on the one hand and
encouragement on the other—a course altogether inconsis-
tent with that policy which her Majesty's Government now
professes, and very properly professes—an earnest desire and
determination to maintain unbroken the peace of England,
so far as it can be preserved with honour. (Hear, hear.)
That is a question on which serious discussion must take
place—that is a question the decision upon which will solve
whether, in the opinion of Parliament and the country, her
Majesty's Government have maintained inviolate the hon-
our of the country—(hear, hear)—or whether, on the other
hand, their policy has not been such as to expose them to
the charge of a feeble and vacillating opposition—yielding
at every step where encroachment was threatened—always
anticipating that that encroachment would be met with
firm resistance, and whenever encroachment took place
yielding and protesting that no further encroachment
should be allowed to take place, (Hear, hear.) That
is the charge against which her Majesty's Government
will hereafter have to defend themselves. This is a feeling
which is ,prevalent in the minds of the people of this
country—this is the feeling which has taken deep hold of
Parliament and the country ; and if I wanted any confirma-
tion of the course which her Majesty's Government have
pursued, and of the course they may be expected to pursue,
I should find it in the concluding portion of the noble earl's
speech, in which, alter elaborately discussing all the disad-
vantage and danger of going to war, all the injuries we might
sustain, the loss of commerce, all the consequences which
might arise to a country like England, including even the
contingency of the war leading to a rupture, at some distant
day, with the Northern States of Ames ica—(a laugh)—the
noble earl, to my utter astonishment, concluded by saying,
that while nothing on earth would induce him to go to war
while we should hold ourselves aloof, because our interests
are so vitally concerned, because our commerce is so exten-
sive,because our relations are so various, because our treaties
are so numerous, that England must keep the:peace, and we
appeal to the country to give us credit for maintaining it in
a state of peace and of internal prosperity and wealth—but
the noble earl said, we reserve to ourselves, if further steps
should be taken, the perfect right of altering our course, and
sacrificing all those considerations on which he laid so much
stress, and of entering on that war that he so justly and
seriously deprecated, and of altogether departing from the
principles on which he acted for the last two years. (Hear.)
That is exactly what the noble earl and the Government
have been saying for two years. First of all, Germany was
to take into serious consideration the danger of incurring all
the responsibilities of federal execution in Holstein. Then
Denmark was recommended—as this is only a federal exe-
cution, we advise you to submit to it; but if the Germans
should go beyond Holstein, if they should cross the Eider,
if they should only enter Sleswig, if the Diet turn
federal execution into an in ternat ional question, then the
question will be altogether altered—then her Majesty's go-
vernment may see the necessity of departing from the course
they have hitherto laid down, and in certain contingencies
afford material assistance to you. Again, Sleswig is occu
pied. We are assured that Sleswig is only taken as a mate

rial guarantee for the fulfilment of other engagements.
"Oh, if Sleswig is only taken for fulfilling other engage-
ments," says the noble lord, " that alters the question ; but
if the occupation is to be a permanent one, that is a thing
which her Majesty's Government cannot tolerate for a
single moment." (Laughter.) Well, Sleswig is perma-
nently occupied. But, says the noble lord, you must never
think of passing into Jutland. (Laughter.) Well, into Jut-
land walk the troops, for strategical reasons, it is alleged.
This the noble earl does not presume to justify; but he says
it is not a sufficient reason for inducing her Majesty's Go-
vernment to depart from their course. Well, my lords, may
I ask what is the contingency which is to override all the
considerations which the noble earl has laid before us ? I
think Parliament is bound to have some answer given to
this question. We will not go to war, says the noble earl,
but we may sea reason to alter our course. I think the
noble earl went so far as to say that it Copenhagen was
bombarded and blockaded, then possibly, to prevent its
capture—possibly —(laughter)—her Majesty's Government
might consider that the contingency had arisen which
would induco tho Government to depart from their resolu-
tion. But short of the capture of Copenhagen, will the noble
lord tell us how far he will consent to.be driven before he

departs from his prudent resolution—for Ido not deny that
it is prudent if it can be maintained with honour. (Hear.)
I hope I may be pardoned for having gone so far as this—
to point out the question to which it will be the duty of her
Majesty's Government hereafter to give a distinct answer,
upon which I hope Pailiament will insist not oily in having
a distinct answer, but in passing a distinct judgment,
(Hear,) But for the present I confess I should be very
sorry that this discussion should take place now
—perhaps I have gone almost beyond my own intention,
perhaps I have gone beyond what might be desirable—
(hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches)—in the tempta-
tion to follow the noble earl for the purpose of pointing out
not what wo aro to discuss now, but what we are to discuss
hereafter. For the present I earnestly hope that neither with
regard to the past nor the more important future, will your
lordships be led upon a partial statement, which is all that
is before us, to enter upon an unprofitable discussion, or to
pledge yourselves individually or collectively to any line, to
pass any confirmation of the past, or to assent or dissent
from the course which has been pursued, (Cheers.)
Earl GRAN VILLE said-4 think there should be a clear
understanding as to the course intended to be pursued, and
that the house should adopt the course recommended by the
noble earl at the beginning, and whichhe repeated at the end
of his speech, that we should not .his evening go into a de-
bate on this great subject without having the necessary
papers in our hands. The noble earl, however, did not adopt
the course he himself suggested, but touched upon all the
points which he considered to be most vulnerable in regard
to the policy of the Government. The noble earl made
statements with regard to the Conference, and used argu-
ments which were applicable to any Conference whatever,
called together to establish peace between aweak and a strong
nation. (Cheers_) We may go on on both sides usir g decla-
matory statements and arguments without any result except
to create popular prejud ice, which cannot affect the reason of
the country. (Cheers.) The noble earl went on to put into
the mouth of my noble friend statements which he never
used in the course of the negotiations. (Laughter.) Why
should the noble earl put to us this alternative—either to
declare to Europe and the world that, whether our interests
or honour were concerned, we would not go to war, or pledge
ourselves to what may be a convenient demand on the part
of a member of the Opposition, but what it would be
unjustifiable in those who represented the people in this
house to exact—every possible contingency, without know-
ihg the accompanying circumstances, which should induce
us to go to war? (Hear, hear.) The noble earl said he did
not wish to enter into a discussion. If the house is of a ,
different opinion we are ready to debate the whole question
now; but I hope it will not be discussed in a piecemeal way.
(Cheers.)

After a:few words from Lord BROUGHAM, which were in-
audible in consequence of the noise created by peers leaving
the house, the subject dropped.

Their lordships adjourned at a quarter to eight.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—Last Evening,
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills were read a third time and passed :
The Belfast Central Railway, and the Kilkenny Junction
Railway.

OPEN SPACES FOR PUBLIC RECREATION, (kc.
Sir J. SHELLEY presented petitions from different
parts of the metropolis, praying that the space already
occupied for the enjoyment and recreation of the commu-
nity should not be infringed by the ground of the same
being let for building or other purposes. (Hoar, hear.)
THE ACCIDENT AT EGHAM.
Sir R. BULKELEY asked the President of the Board
of Trado whether his attention bad been drawn to the evi-
dence given at the inquest on the sufferers by the late rail-
way accident at Egham, by Mr. Robert A. Scott, traffic
I manager of the South Western Railway, in which he says
" Ordinarily, I think, there would not be the slightest
danger in starting them (the trains) at an interval of five
minutes, allowing the first train to make a first stoppage at a
distance of eight miles. It is quite an ordinary working
of the trains. Some lines allow only three minutes :" also
to the evidence of Thomas Gibbard, office-porter at Egham,
whose duty was to note the arrival and departure of the
trains, and who stated "That the Royal train (containing
their Royal Highnesses the Prince and Princess
of Wales) passed through Egham in the morning
at 12'51, and that Lee passed through at 12.47
Whether the President of the Board of Trade would in-
form the house on what lines trains were started at intervals
of three minutes only : whether starting trains on the same
line at intervals of three minutes was done with the know-
ledge and sanction of the Board of Trade : and, whether he
considered the safety of their Royal Highnesses was sufil.
ciently protected in allowing a heavy passenger train to
precede them by four minutes only ?

Mr. M. GIBSON explained that the Board of Trade
had no power in the matter.

THE CONFERENCE,
APPEARANCE OF THE HOUSE.

From an early hour both the floor of the house and the
galleries were crowded to excess, and the proceedings

were invested with that animation which only arises
from great political excitement. The strangers' gallery
was full to overflowing, and that portion of it reserved
for distinguished foreigners was occupied by the leading
diplomatic representatives of the principal European states.
Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, I rise to move that these
papers be printed, and, in doing so, I am quite ware there
never was an occasion possibly upon which a Minister of
the Crown had to make a statement—short and simple as
I intend to make it—to this House of Parliament, and
through it to the public, upon which the feelings of the
country, the sympathies of the country, the aspirations,
I may say the anxieties of the country, were more
deeply engaged than on the question with regard to which it
is my duty during a short time to detain the House. For the
sympathy which the British nation has felt in the cause of
Denmark will do honour to them in all times. I stand here,
however, not to excite those sympathies, or to profit by
them. I stand here on this occasion simply to communi-
cate to the House, in a short abstract, the substance of those
proceedings at the Conference which are recorded in detail
in the papers now laid upon the table. And I may say
that, although on Friday I doubted whether the record of
the proceedings of Saturday would be sufficiently ready to
be laid in conjunction with the preceding papers upon the
table, I am now able to say that they will be delivered to-
mcrrow morning equally with the other papers relating
to the Conference. (Hear, hear.) And among them
will be found an abstract of the proceedings of the
Conferenee, drawn up by one of the plenipotentiaries,
which will greatly assist honourable members in making
themselves masters of the more detailed contents of the
protocols. But to explain more fully, and to make the House
understand completely the nature of the questions treated
of in the Conference, it will be necessary for me to go a little
farther back, and to make Some remarks upon the Treaty of
1852, out of which the subsequent controversy originated.
The House, however, is sufficiently familiar with that trans-
action and its origin to make it unnecessary for me to do
more than give a general outline of the transactions to which
I allude. The Treaty of 1852 was, I should say, a treaty
negotiated by myself ; by Lord Granville who succeeded me;
and concluded by Lord Malmesbury, who succeeded him,
So far, therefore, as the policy of that Treaty is concerned,
all parties in this country are equally bound up. (Hear,
hear.) It was founded upon European considerations; it
did not originate simply with England—(hear, hear)—it
was an arrangement dictated by European interests. The
state of the matter was this. The law of succession in Den-
mark admitted the succession of females ; the law of succes-
sion in Holstein confined the succession to males. If;
therefore, any case should arise in which there was any
default of issue male in Denmark, it was clear that by the
operation of those conflicting laws Denmark and Holstein
would be separated. But the late King of Denmark, ad-
vanced in years, had no offspring, and the Prince who would
have been his immediate successor, had he outlived the King
his uncle, had no offspring either ; and therefore the Powers
of Europe thought it necessary to take into consideration
the means of preventing the splitting up of the Danish
monarchy, which they felt to be inconsistent with the gene-
ral interests of Europe and the balance of power in the
North. For this purpose it was necessary to assimilate the
laws of succession in the two parts of the Danish monarchy.
To alter the law of succession in Holstein was impossible,
because it formed part of the law of the Germanic Confede-
ration. The other expedient was adopted, and it was deter-
mined that the lex regict of Denmark should be altered, and
that males only should succeed to the Danish crown. It was
also provided that the King of Denmark should have the
power of naming his successor to the crown of Denmark ;
and an arrangement should be made by which his successor
should also succeed to the Duchy of Holstein. These arrange-
ments were the objects of the Treaty of 1852. The King
of Denmark chose as his successor Prince Christian of
Glucksburg, and there being a question of the rights of the
House of Augustenburg to the Duchy of Holstein, that
right was commuted fora pecuniary indemnity. The Duke
of Augustenburg, having been in rebellion against the King
of Denmark upon a former occasion and his estates having
been confiscated, the value of those estates was given to
him on condition of his renouncing for himself and his suc-
cessors all claims to the duchy of Holstein. The Treaty of
1852, therefore, provided, so far as the powers of foresight
of the parties could go for maintaining the integrities of the
Danish monarchy, as it was then constituted, by the poses-
sion, on the part of Denmark, of the duchies of Schleswig
and Holstein. That treaty was greatly approved of by all
parties concerned in it. A question, however, arose whe-
ther, as Holstein was affected by that treaty, it should be
submitted to the concurrence of the Diet at Frankfort. The
asking for that accession was objected to at first by all the
parties concerned--by Germany, Russia, Sweden, and Den-
mark. My noble friend, Lord Granville, who then held
the seals of the Foreign-office, did, however, propose that
that treaty, before it was concluded, should be submitted to
the Federal Diet. On the contrary. it would be seen by the
papers on the table that some parties expressed dismay at
the proposal, their dismay arising from the delay that
would attend such an application ; and a different mode was
adopted, namely, that whereas the Diet consists only of re•
presentatives of the different Germanic Powers, application
should be made to those Powers themselves to accede to the
treaty which had been coneluded. That application was
made, and several of the Powers agreed to it; but it is right
to say that some other Powers, including Bavaria and
Baden, declined to assent to the treaty, in consequence of
feelings connected with German opinion as bearing on the
duchies of Schleswig and Holstein. Well, s'r, that treaty
was preceded by certain diplomatic communications be-
tween Germany and Denmark which led to various ar-
rangements; but the material part of the communication
was this, that whereas, on ono part, the great object of
Denmark had always been to incorporate Schleswig with
Denmark; and whereas, on the other haud, the great object
for which the Germans had always contended was the poli
tical and administrative union of Schleswig with Holstein,
both should give up their respective pretensions; that the
King of Denmark, on the one hand, should agree not to
incorporate Schleswig with Denmark, and, on the other
hand, that the Germans should agree no longer to recognise
the political union of Schleswig. with Holstein. Such was
the state of matters at the conclusion of that treaty ; and it
all parties had been equally animated by that spirit of con-
for both, lam not aware that any serious complication
ccoiluialdtiohna,vaenad I
risemm ay sayßu of justice, it would have been better
But during the ten years which elapsed
between the conclusion of that treaty and the death of the
late King of Denmark a series of mutual complaints arose.
The Germans concluded, and I am afraid not without some
reason—(hear, hear, from the benches behind Ministers)—
that the Danish Government had not acted fairly in their
treatment of the German population in Schleswig ; that in
their extreme anxiety to extend Danish power they had in
some degree interfered with the free exercise by the German
population of Schleswig of those privileges which belonged
to the subjects of every free State. Also it is to be borne

in mind that there was, in March of last year, a patent—
that is, a constitution—proclaimed by the late King of
Denmark for Holstein, which the Germanic Confederation
declared in its details to be at variance with the general laws
of the Confederation; and, moreover, in November last, a
constitution was passed at Copenhagen for Denmark and
Schleswig, which the Germans contended was at variance
with the engagement entered into in 1851 and 1852 by
Denmark, not to incorporate Schleswig with Denmark.
The late King of Denmark died while those questions were
under discussion in Germany and Denmark, the patent of
March remained in force; and the present King found it
necessary, upon considerations connected with internal
matters arising from his recent succession to the throne, to
give his sanction to that constitution of November, which
at that time had not received the royal assent. Germany
remonstrated against both these arrangements. In
October the Diet had passed a resolution that Fe.
deral troops should enter Holstein, for the purpose of
compelling the Duke:of Holstein, the King of Denmark, to
revoke the patent of March. I will deal with that question
first. Her Majesty's Government, thinking that there were
grounds for the German objections to that patent, urged the
Danish Government to revoke, and to place themselves in
the right thereby. (Hear, hear, from the benches behind
Ministers). The Danish Government did so. (Counter
cries of Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) But the
Diet came to change its ground. Instead of contenting it-
self, as it had done at the death of the late King, with dis-
puting the right of the Duke of Holstein to give that con-
stitution, which they considered was at variance with the
general law, they took another ground, and contended that
the question had fairly arisen who should be Duke of Hol-
stein. A proposal was then brought forward in the Diet
that Holstein should be occupied by Federal troops until
that question had been decided. They denied that the pre-
sent King of Denmark had succeeded legally to the duchy
of Holstein, and a proposal was made to the Diet to occupy
Holstein until the question had been decided by the Diet,
It is my opinion the Diet had no right, and has no right, to
consider and decide that question. (Hear, hear.) There is
nothing, in my opinion, either in the treaty of 1815 which
constituted the Diet, which gave it its birth and origin—
there is nothing in that treaty, and there is nothing in the
final Act of 1820, which completed the arrangements which
entitled the Diet to determine who should succeed to any
State within the Confederation. (Hear, hear.) And lam
quite sure that when the Emperor of Austria resigned, and
was succeeded by a member of his family, the Diet did not
claim any right to sa) who should succeed him : but Aus-
tria and Prussia moved in the Diet, not that the Federal
troops should not enter Holstein, but that the entrance of
those troops should be what is called an execution, and not
an occupation. Now, by " execution" is meant the action
of the Diet, in accordance with the rights of the Diet and
with German laws, to compel any sovereign of territory
belonging to the Confederation to adapt legislation to the
laws of the Confederation, if those laws should have been
broken. Austria and Prussia carried that proposal, and
the Diet resolved, not that the entrance of the troops
should bear the character of an occupation to hold the
duchy of Holstein until the rightful heir should be deter-
mined, but that entrance should be an act of execution to
compel the then existing Duke to alter the patent or revoke
it, and make it in accordance with German legislation. The
entrance, therefore, of the Federal troops into Holstein as e
measure of execution was a distinct acknowledgement by
the Diet at the time that the King of Denmark was Duke of
Holstein, and it was to compel the King of Denmark to re-
voke the patent of March that that execution took place.
(Hear.) There is also this to be remembered that, whereas
it would have been perfectly legitimate for that execution

to take place if the King of Denmark had persisted in re-
voking the patent, in point cf fate that patent had been re-
voked before the troops entered Holstein, and consequently
that entrance was unjust in itself, although founded on a
plea which, if that plea had held, would have rendered it a
justifiable act. (Hear.) Well, those ttoops hating entered
upon the distinct understanding to compel the King of Den-
mark to revoke the patent, those proceedings took place
which led to the supercession of the King of Denmark, and
a declaration in favour of the Duke of Augustenburg, Then
came the question of the constitution of November, uniting
to a certain degree, as we were campelled to admit) Schles-
wig with Denmark. Her Majesty's Government felt all
the evils arising from that occupation. I should say the
Germans contended that, although the Government of Den-
mark had engaged to act on the suggestion of England, and
I believe of other Powers, to take the earliest means con-
etittstionally possible to revoke that constitution—the Ger-
mans determined to enter into and take possession of
Schleswig as a material guarantee for the performance of
that engagement, We proposed that some diplomatictrans-
action, some engagement on the part of Denmark, taken in
the presence of the ether Powers parties to the treaty,
should be accepted by the Germans as a sufficient security
that the engagement should be fulfilled. But this was not
accepted and the German troops entered Schleswig. When
the Federal troops entered Holstein, the Danish Govern-
ment, partly from advice and partly from considerations of
prudence, refrained from offering any resistance to
the entrance of the Federal troops, and there
was no war arising out of that occupation. When
the German troops entered Schleswig the feelings of the
Danish nation were too strong to admit of a similar course
being pursued, and resistance--an obstinate and heroic re-
sistance—was made against the very superior numbers
which Germany brought to bear on that occasion, Up to
that time all the parties who had signed the Treaty of 1852
continued to admit its validity and to be bound by its en-
gagements as far as they related to the acknowledgment of
the right of the King of Denmark, and that all the terri-
tories held by the King should be maintained. Up to that
thee even Prussia did not dispute the binding nature of
that treaty, But it is fair to say that she intimated that if
resistance should arise, and different events should take
place, then possibly the German Powers might have to
reconsider the engagements of the 'treaty of 1852. Well,
now, sir, not to trouble the house with the recital of mili-
tary operations, with which all are familiar, the course of
the war led to the occupation by the Germans of the whole
of Schleswig, and such parts of Jutland as they thought fit
to occupy. In that state of things it occurred to the Powers
who were parties to the treaty, and who were not engaged
in that war, that it was desirable that a Conference should
assemble of the plenipotentiaries of the belligerents and the
four neutral Powers, England, France, Russia, and Sweden,
to consider the means of re-establishing peace upon a solid
and permanent footing. That proposal was agreed to, and
on the 25th of April the Conference met. It continued its
labours until last Saturday. The first proposal made in
the Conference was for a suspension of hostilities, because
it was felt by what 1 shall now and hencefor ward call the
neutral Powers, that until fighting should cease there was
no fair prospect of coming to an amicable conclusion. We
had wished suspension of arms should precede the Confer.
ence, but that it was found impossible to obtain. Well, after
some delay and a good deal of discussion, a suspension of
hostilities was agreed to, to take place on the 12th of May
and last for a month. The next thing was that the belligerent
Powers were asked upon what condition they were respect •
ively willing to put an end to the war and come to a mutual
agreement. The Germans, of course, were the parties to whom
that question was addressed. There was some delay in ex-
tracting from the German powers what their conditions were
They first proposed that, still maintaining the principles of
integrity of the Danish monarchy as defined by treaty of
1852—at least not departing from it in words—they pro-
posed, or in substance were thought to do so, that there
should be a political and legislative union between Schles-
wig and Holstein, and that the connection of that united
duchy with Denmark should be the link simply of the crown.
But they coupled that with another condition, that this
arrangement should be reserved for the approbation of the
Diet, and there was some reason to suppose that under the
reservation it was intended to give a discretionary power to
the Diet to determine whether Schleswig should continue
to be united to Denmark, or whether the claims of some
other Pretender should be set up. Well, that proposal was
rejected by the Danish Government. They then proposed
a different mode, but one still objectionable, namely, that
Schleswig and Holstein should be separated from the Danish
monarchy. Of course the Danes could not agree to that.
The neutral Powers conferred among themselves, and saw
that Schleswig and Holstein were in possession of an over-
poweting force—that it did not meet the views of France or
Russia to take any steps to dislodge them. Denmark alone
was unable ; and I need not say that England was not wil-
ling to enter singly into that undertaking—(cheers from the
Ministerial side)—the neutrals agreed to propose to Den-
mark the separation of Holstein from the Danish ground,
together with such a partition of the southern part of
Schleswig as might be agreed upon. The line proposed by
the neutral Powers was a line running from the Schlei to
Frederickstadt. Well, that proposal, coupled with other
conditions which I shall not trouble the house with, was
accepted by Denmark, Denmark said, however reluctant
to make a territorial concession, she was willing to
agree to that. (Cheers from both sides of the house.)
She felt all the inconvenience of the perpetual disputes
between Denmark and Germany. She wished to be quit
of all interference by the Diet with her affairs, and, pro-
vided she had assigned to her a frontier which in a military
and commercial point of view was consistent with her
interests, she was willing to adopt and agree to that sug-
gestion, and to separate Schleswig and part of Holstein
from Denmark. The Germans objected to that arrange-
ment. They said that line would not include a sufficient
number of the German population, that there would still
be a large number of the German population under Danish
rule, and they wished that the great bulk of the German
population should be associated with Holstein. Now, the
fact with regard to Schleswig I believe to be, that the ex-
treme northern part is entirely Danish, and the extreme
southern is mostly German. Between the two is a district
of large extent, in which the population are mixed not only
by villages, but even by streets in those villages, so that it
is absolutely impossible to draw any line in the centre of
Schleswig that shall entirely separate the German popula-
tion from the Danish. Consequently the ground taken by
the Danish Government appeared to be a fair one, that the
line should be drawn—it being impossible that the line
could be drawn with reference to nationality—should he
drawn so as to give Denmark such a frontier as should be
susceptile!te of military defence, and secure her those com-
mercial advantages which she claimed. (Hear, hear.) The
Danish Government, I say, accepted the line from the
Schlei to Frederickstadt. The German plenipotentiaries
having handsomely given up—at least having given up—
(laughter)—the whole of Schleswig, they consented to a
partition drawn from Apenrade to Tondern, a place on the
west coast. Between those two lines lay a district of very
considerable extent, as compared with the extent of Schles-
wig—of course in a commercial, though not in a European,
point of view, a district of great importance to Denmark.
In the course of these negotiations the Prussian Plenipoten-
tiary, Count Bernstorff, stated on his own autherity that,
seeing the wide difference between the parties, he would
undertake to represent to his Government to depart from
the northern line at Apenrade, and to take a line to the
south, from Flensburg to the western coast. That recom-
mendation was not accepted, and he was obliged to disavow
it, and say that his Government and the Austrian Govern-
ment adhered to the line originally proposed, from Apenrade
to Tondern. But meanwhile, time pressing, the neutral
plenipotentiaries urged upon the parties a prolongation of
the armistice—a suspension of hostilities. I will not say
armistice, because a distinction is drawn between armistice
and suspension of hostilities. That was to expire on the
10th of June, and, by great difficulty, the Danes were per-
suaded to agree to an extension of that time. The German
Powers were willing, as might not unnaturally be expected,
to extend the armistice until the beginning of winter. (Hear,
and laughter.) The Danes, on the other hand, begrudged
every fortnight of the summer that was withdrawn from
their naval operations, and therefore they said they would
not prolong the armistice beyond a fortnight, unless in the
meantime some arrangement should be come to which
would lead them to suppose that the negotiations would
end in a peaceful manner. The suspension was, therefore,
extended for a fortnight, which ended yesterday. I may
say in the whole course of these negotiations, as will be
shown by the protocols laid on the table, there was perfect
unanimity between the neutral Powers—between Eng-
land, France, Russia, and Sweden—(hear, hear)—and,
although my noble friend, Lord Russell, was chosen by
the Conference at the outset as president of the Conference,
and although it may have fallen to him to make several
proposals that were made, those must be considered as the
proposals of the neutral Powers, because they were the
neutral Powers before the proposals were made in the Con•
ference. (Cheers.) That is a very important matter. (Hear,
hear.) Well then, sir, it appearing that there was no pos-
sibility of bringing the Germans and Danes to agree upon
any middle line between the two lines which they respec-
tively stood upon—the Schlei and Frederickstadt on the
one hand, and the Apenrade and Tondern by the Germans
—a last attempt was made by the neutral Powers to induce
the belligerents to agree to refer the question in dispute to
arbitration. The dispute had really been narrowed to a
comparatively small end, It was no longer whether Hol-
stein should be governed in a peculiar manner; it was no
longer wheher Schleswig should be politically and adminis-
tratively united with Holstein under the crown of Denmark.
The Danes had consented to an alienation of territory; the
Germans would be content with that arrangement ; and the
only question was whether that arrangement should be
cerrie,!. out by dividing Schleswig in one part or by dividing
it in another , and it appeared to the neutral Powers that
the territory lying between those two lines was not so im-

Portant to either party as to justify the resumption of war,
and that they might fairly, in accordance with the
recommendation of the Conference, submit the question to
tht arbitration of a neutral Power. (Cheers.) Accordingly
ley noble friend, as the organ of neutral, Powers, did pro-
pose that arrangement to the plenipotentiaries. Each:party
naturally took time to refer that question to his respective
Government, and on Friday the answers were corainuni-

cated. The answer of the German Powers was that they
looked to the words of the Conference at Paris, which re-
commended the good offices cla friendly Power, and that

protocol having been quoted by the neutrals, they accepted
that reference—the reference of the question in dispute to a
friendly Power—provided that they were to reserve their
decision—(laughter)—as to whether they would accept or
reject—(laughter)—the line that friendly Power might
assign. (Cries of " Oh, oh.") Well, that was at 'sari-
ance with the proposal of my noble friend and all the
neutral Powers—(hear)—Lecause my noble friend, as the
organ of the neutral Powers, in recommending the adop-
tion of reference suggested by the Conference at Paris, dis-
tinctly stated that it was for that purpose that a friendly
Power should decide and determine between the two par-
ties. (Dear, hear.) Therefore the answer of the German
Powers would have been more frank and candid if they had
simply declined the proposal, instead of accepting it with a
proviso which made it null and void, (Hear, hear.) The
Danes, on the other hand, who throughout the whole trans-
actions have Certainly clung more to their ;decisions than
they have shown, perhaps, great aptitude in adapting them-
selves to the force of circumstance—altogether declined the
arbitration. They said' they had accepted the line of the
Schlei, and
,further north they would not consent to go.
(Hear, hear.) This seemed to put an end to all further
attempts towards a good understanding, but the ambas-
sador of France, by order of his Government, made another
and a last effort. He proposed that, whereas the Danes
agreed to give up the Schlei, and the Germans would not
come further south than Appenrade, an appeal should be
made to the population of the mid districts in order to ascer-
tain first of all the relative nationality of districts, and then
what their wishes were. To that proposal the Prussian
plenipotentiary agreed, but that proposal was negatived by
Denmark. A proposal of the same sort had been
made in the earlier stages of the negotiation, and had not
found favour with any party except Prussia; but Austria
and Russia decidedly objected, as well as Denmark, to
ascertain the wishes of the population in the matter. Thus,
then, the labours of the Conference were brought to a close.
We had laboured by every possible means, in conjunction
with the other neutral Powers, to endeavour to bring the
two parties to an agreement. We felt it as a calamity, as
everybody must, that war should begin again for a matter
which might so easily, have been adjusted, and for a
question not involving the existence of a nation or of a
government, but simply relating to the division of a com-
paratively small district of territory. Well, then. that
having unfortunately happened, it became the duty of her
Majesty's Government to take into serious consideration
the course which it behoved diem to adopt. We felt great
sympathy for Denmark. We felt that, although she had
in the beginning been in the wrong, yet as another sove-
reign had succeeded to the throne, as a different Ministry
had the direction of her affairs, and as there had been ma-
nifested by acts a strong desire to set that right which had
been wrong—(hear)—we felt from the beginning to the
end of these last events, and from the first to the last, that
she had been ill. used—(cheers)—that might had overridden
right. We knew also that the sympathies of almost the
whole British nation—(hear)—were in favour of Denmark,
There is a natural disposition in all mankind who have pro•
per feelings to take part with the weak against the strong—
(cheers)—especially if the weak are oppressed, and if the
strong are unjustly oppressing the weaker party. (Hear.)
We should, therefore, for these reasons, have been glad to
have found it possible to recommend to our Sovereign to
take part with Denmark in the approaching struggle. But
then, on the other hand, it was to be considered, whatever
wrongs Denmark had sustained—and they were many—
that she had in the origin been wrong herself. (Hear.)
That she had at the end, and at the very last Conference,
rejected a proposal reasonable in itself, which, if it had been
accepted by the two parties, would necessarily have led
to a peaceable solution of the difficulty. (Hear.) Her
fault in that indeed was equally shared by her antago-
nists—(hear)—but still, in considering the position which
England ought to adopt, that matter could not be left out
of sight. Well, then, it was to be considered what really
was the matter in dispute for which hostilities were to be-
gin, and it did not appear that that matter was one of very
great importance to the independence of Denmark, as it
went very little beyond what she herself had agreed to, and
consisted simply in the question to whom a portion of ter-
ritory should belong. On the other hand, any men who
were considering what advice in a very important—l do not
disguise its importance—European question should be given
to their Sovereign and recommended to Parliament, could
not possibly lose sight of the magnitude of the object, and
of the magnitude of the resistance which had to be over-
come, and of the comparative means which England and its
supposed antagonists would be able to bring to bear on the
question. It had been ascertained early in these transac-
tions that France, for reasons of which she was entitled to
be the judge, had declined to take any active measures in
support of Denmark. We knew that that disposition still
continued unchanged. We had ascertained that Russia,
for reasons et which she also was entitled to be the judge,
was not inclined to take any active measures in support of
Denmark, The whole brunt of the effort, therefore, what-
ever it might have been—namely, the effort to dislodge the
German troops and those who might come to their assist-
ance from the rest of Germany from Schleswig and Holstein
would fall upon this country alone, (Hear.) Well, sir,
we have not thought that it was consistent with our duty
to give our Sovereign advice to undertake such an enter.
prise. (Hear, and murmurs.) We know the honourable
sympathy which the people of thisnation feel for the unhappy
conditicn of Denmark; at the same time we did not think
it consistent:with our duty to recommend that Parliament
and the country should make those great exertions, and to
undergo those great sacrifices, which would be the conse-
quence of entering into such a conflict with the whole of
Germany. (Hear.) I assume that in the present state of
things, upon which our decision was made, the real contest
lies between Germany and Denmark, with regard, I am afraid
I can hardly say that part of Schleswig in dispute, because
it is impossible to say that the dispute may not apply to
the whole of Schleswig—it will be more honourable on the
part of the German Powers to be content with that which
they demanded; but we know that strength and success
frequently carry men beyon.: that line which, on cooler re•
flection, they might stand upon—but still the conflict is as
regards Schleswig, and not as regards the independence of
Denmark or the capital of the Danish monarchy. Ido not
mean to say—and I think it right to put in that reservation
—that if the war should assume a different character, that
if the existence of Denmark as an independent Power in
Europe should be at stake—l do not mean to say that if we
were to find reason to expect that we should see at Copen-
hagen the horrors of a town taken by assault, the destruc-
tion of property, the sacrifice of the lives not only of its
defenders, but of its peaceful inhabitants, the confiscation
which would arise, the capture of the sovereign as a pri-
soner of war, or eventsof that kind—l do not mean to say, if
any of these events were likely to happen, that the position
of this country might not possibly be a fit subject for recon-
sideration—(oh, oh, and Ministerial cheers)—or that other
counsels might not be taken. But this I say, on the part of
the Government, that if any change of policy were thought
desirable, such change would be communicated to Parlia-
ment, if Parliament were sitting—and if Parliament were
not sitting, the earliest opportunity would be taken of ask-
ing for the judgment of Parliament on the subject. I have
to apologise to the house for having detained it so long. It
is not my wish to provoke discussion. My desire was to
explain as fully as I could the state of the matter. The
papers which will be in the hands of members to-morrow
morning will contain a full account of all that passed in the
Conference. All events which took place bet ore the Con.

ference are already recorded in the papers which have been
some time before Parliament. Every member, therefore,
will by looking at those documents be capable of forming a
proper opinion as to the conduct of her Majesty's Govern-
ment in the management of these difficult negotiations.
(Hear, hear.)

Mr. DISRAELI—I quite agree that it would be inconve-
nient that the house, on this occasion, should be led to
enter into a general discussion respecting tho transactions
which have taken place between Denmark and Germany,
and the relations which the English Government bear to
those transactions. I trust the house will not be induced to

enter into a desultory discussion on that important subject.
One of the reasons why I rise to-night is to remind the house
of the exact position which it occupies with reference to this
matter. The house will recollectll hat, as far as the nego-
tiations of the Government in these questions between Den-

mark and Germany are concerned, the house has incurred
no responsibility whatever. (Hear.) Since the end of the
last session the house has given no opinion on the subject.
As I had some part in bringing about that position of the
house, perhaps it will not be considered presumptuous on
my part now to remind them of it. On the first night of
the session I reflected the feelings of gentlemen on this side
of the house in expressing my want of confidence in the
foreign policy of her Majesty's Government (Conservative
cheers)--and my disapprobation of the manner in which
negotiations had been carried on, especially in the North of
Europe, and the results which even then had been realised.
Had the papers been presented to the house on the meeting
of Parliament, according to custom, there would have been
no difficulty, probably before the month of February had
elapsed, in asking the opinion of the house upon the con-
duct of these negotiations. Indeed, what has occurred in
the Conference, judging from the narrative, perspicuous
though not satisfactcry, given by the noble lord of what
otherwise has undoubtedly met the ears of many gentlemen
what has happened in the Conference has really very
little to do with the great question on which I think the
its -
house ought to come to a decision. The Conference was a
-the meeting which I think, by-by, has not been in origin
accurately represented by the noble lord. That Conference
was not called at the desire of the neutral Powers, but by
one neutral Power alone, viz., Great Britain. It met
without a hope, and it closed without a hope. It met
without a basis, and therefore it led to no result. Let me
remind the house that from the period Parliament met
until the meeting of the Conference, the house had given
no approbation whatever of the conduct of the Government
with respect to these transactions. On the one occasion
alone that any opinion was sought by a formal motion
in the shape of a vote of want of confidence by an hon.
member opposite—on that occasion I myself interfered,
and moved the previous question, on the ground that
the circumstances which then pre%ailed rendered it,
in my opinion, not expedient that Parliament should

give any opinion on the subject. Therefore her Majesty's
Ministers did not enter the Conference with the confidence
of Parliament, but with the previous question. That was
the position, as far as Parliament was concerned, upon
which they entered into that discussion, It is necessary

the house should understand clearly that they are not is
any way committed to any approbation of the conduct of her
Majesty's Ministers in these matters. I think, however,
that the time has now arrived when some opinion of the
house ought to be given. (Cheers and counter cheers.) I
myself, although five months have elapsed since the period
which, as it now appears, that opinion might conveni-
ently and properly have been taken, do not regret ike de-
lays which have been occasioned, because they were claw'
sioned by feelings on both sides of the house which le'
honour to the House of Commons. I have always thought
that one of the principal reasons why the House of Com-
mons has been successful in its practical character, and so
marked out from all other popular assemblies,
may be found
in the respect which it entertains for the prerogative of the
Crown and for the functions of constitutional Ministers
therefore I think the course which we then pursued was It
wise, a temperate, and a patriotic course. At the game time
I must say it is my opinion that we should forfeit all claims'
to the respect of our countrymen, and not fulfil one of the
highest functions of Parliament, if in the present critica
position of affairs we hesitated to give our opinions upon
the conduct of her Majesty's Ministers in this respect
(Opposition cheers.) Having said so much on several o
casions, I must now say that it is my intention on an early
—I will say on the earliest—occasion, to take the opinion of
the house on that question. (Renewed cheers and counter
cheers.) I daresay I shall find no difficulty raised by the
noble lord (Palmerston) in fixing upon a period which I
may think most convenient. I should have said no wors)
had it not been for the closing observation of the noble lord,
which it appears to me ought not to pass unnoticed. (hear')
I must say I heard them with astonishment. Are we, then,
to be taught to •night by the noble lord that it is the islands
of Denmark alone that are necessary to the independence
of that country ? Then why is it we have been com-
mitted to a policy which has so long and so pertina-
ciously declared that the possession of Schleswig and 11°1°
stein by the crown of Denmark were necessary to the balance
of power, and to the maintenance of the public law °
Harope ? (Cheers.) It is too much for us now to hear, un-
der those circumstances, that war may be impending at anY
moment, and that Parliament, which is soon to be pro-
rogued, may be suddenly called together again, because the
noble lord and his colleagues, who for a considerable period
have been defining the grounds upon which the balance of
power and the maintenance of the public law of Eilr°o:,
alone depend, and ought to be advocated, now at the I°B'
moment find, while he recedes from the vital conclusion,
that possibly a smaller issue may arise which in the interval
may agitate Europe and disturb and distract the Public'
mind, I must say I can only, after the experience we bac?,
had on this subject—and it is some consolation to atop"
that view of the question—look upon this as a continuance
of those senseless and spiritless menaces—(hear, hear):'
which have lately impaired the influence of this country in
the councils of Europe, and, by impairing that just indn'
ence of this country in the councils of Europe had really
diminished the most effective means of maintaining Peace:
(Cheers.) I think the noble lord might have spared that
contingent menace to the house, to the country, and to
Europe. Judging from the past, I myself would prefer that
the affairs of this country should be conducted on the rill"
ciple avowed by the hon. members for Rochdale and Bir-
mingham, than by the policy which is avowed and an-
nounced by the noble lord (Palmerston). I think in that
case, as the conclusion of those hon. members is 9101)15
the same, our position would be more consistent, more Pr°'
Cable, and more really dignified, for at least they would 11°t
threaten only—(hear)—at least, they would not tell Denv
mark that "if she is attacked, she will not find hersel',
alone"—(cbeers)—at least, they would not exasperate Ger-
many by declaiming in the Parliament of England against
w
the aggravated outrages of her policy—at least they would
not lure on Denmark by delusive counsels and fallacious
hopes. (Hear, hear.) I declare that, in my opinion, the
position of England would be more dignified if the policy,
which those hon. gentlemen profess conducted our affairs
rather than the policy,which the noble lord professes. Have
we not, indeed. for months upon months, been menacing
almost every country in the world; and yet when we think
that we have at last secured the blessings of peace, and
when we pass over the gloomy narrative of those disar
pointments and discomfitures which we have received this
evening, that at last we are in an intelligible position, 013 d
might enj 3y rhat some may consider to have been purchased
at great coat, but which was really and clearly to result in
the possession of peace—we are at the same time not merely
to have that announcement accompanied by the continua'
tion of those unsatisfactory menaces, but absolutely at this
moment the whole country is to be agitated with the possi •
bility of Parliament being called suddenly together, in order
that the noble lord may commence a policy of action which,
if it were justified and called for, ought to have been com-
menced long ago. (Opposition cheers.) I trust that these
questions will be entered into fully and completely. When
I listened to the narrative which the noble lord has favoured
us with of these transactions, of the continued sacrifices of
Denmark, and of the continued approaches of the enemies
of Denmark, I was not surprised to find that the nable lord
entirely omitted any notice of the inducements which had
made Denmark submit to those sacrifices. cr of the menace!,
to the aggressive Powers which have always been treated
with contempt. I should like to have had, when the precis
of the proceedings was given by the First Minister, soma
account of the causes of the dreary consequences which he
narrated. We shall soon have an opportunity of entering
into that matter. I expect from the courteous promise of
the noble lord that he will make no difficulties with respect
to the day when I shall venture to ask the opinion of the
house upon the policy of the Government, and I will take
care that no unnecessary delay occurs before I avail myself
of that opportunity. (Cheers.)
The motion was then agreed to.
THE ANNUITY TO THE KING OF GREECE.

On the or ler for going into Committee of Supply,
Mr AYRTON moved a resolution that the grant to the
King of Greece of an annuity of £4,000 out of the moneYg
belonging to the Consolidated Fund by treaty not made
subject to the sanction of Parliament, is a violation of the
privileges of the House of Commons.
Upon an explanation by the CHANCELLOR of the El-
CHEQUER, he withdrew the motion.
Mr M. SMITH called attention to the buildings and shed°
used for the superior courts of law and equity, and the
inadequate accommodation afforded by them; and also to
the delay on the part of the Government to introduce their
promised measure for providing new courts of justice.
A discussion followed, in which the ATTORNEY GENERA-1'
and Mr COW PER indicated the views and intentions of the
Government on the subject.

Mr ADDERLEY, who had given notice of a resolution
that it is inexpedient that detachments of British troops
should bo stationed upon exposed posts on the Canadian
frontier unless adequately supported by Canadian forces,
discussed at considerable length the policy pursued cowards
Canada.

Mr CARD WELL concurred in the proposition contained
Mr Adderley's resolution, and agreed in many of his
ob:ervations. He stated the changes made in Canada, esPe"
dally with reference to the militia,
the training of ofEceray
and the preliminary arrangements for the organisation of a
good defensive native force.

Some remarks by Lord R. CECIL upon the danger to
which Canada was exposed were answered by Mr
FORTESCUE, who stated that preparations had been made
and were making to meet future danger.
Mr CAVE called attention to the conduct of the Gus-
toms authorities of the linked States at New York ill

refusing clearances to British ships engitgeeli;legitimat°
trade between that port and Jamaica, except upon the
most onerous and unusual conditions; and asked whether
instructions would not be sent to Lord Lyons to protest
against such proceedings.
Mr LAYARD said the conditions referred to were b•
yond the competency of the United States to impose
protests had already been made, and the subject would
not be lost sight of.
Col. DUNNE called attention to the subject of recruit-
ing for the army, and to the causes of the unwillingness
of men to enlist, which created a diffioulty, he Bald, in
keeping up the numbers of the troops. He noticed some of
the causes which he considered to be removable, and

b
gested the encouragements that should be given.
The Marquis of HARTINGTON said he was very glad
ary,o afnd ore the house, be-
little
recruiting 1321"
lt
iht
tate
causet
rhae i
csvr
euriytnconsiderable subject
amountenne c broughtess
misapprehension ex-
isted regarding it, As to the falling off in recruiting, very
chinery had been lately disused. The number of men re-
cruited had been, however, sufficient to meet the wants of
the year. He thought it unnecessary, therefore, to discuss
the reasons which prevented men from enlisting, for there
was no present want of men,
The house was at length able to go into a Committee of
Supply upon the remaining Civil Service Estimates, tho
discussion of which lasted till past midnight.
The report of the Inland Revenue (Stamp Duties) Bill
gave rise to a short debate.
The Chimney-sweepers' Regulation Bill was read a third
time and passed.
The Greek Loan Bill passed the Committee, after much
discussion.

The remaining orders were disposed of, and the house
adjourned at a quarter past 2 o'clock.

Persons in debt may obtain instant protection against
imprisonment or seizure of their goods, and an entire release
from all debts and liabilities without publicity, by application
to Messrs. Marshall, solicitors of the Court of BankrupteY,
Charges under L 5 payable by easy instalments. Offices--
(established 1830), 12, Hatton-garden. City branch --6. Moor
gate-street, Bank—ADvT.

[ADVERTISEMENT.]—HoIIoway's Ointment and Pills
have over and over again proved the best friends to persons
afflicted with ulcerations, bad legs, sores, abscesses, fistulas,
and other painful and complicated complaints. Printed and
very plain directions for the application of the ointment are
wrapped round each pot. Holloway's alterative pills should
be taken throughout the process of the cure, to maintain
the blood in a state of perfect purity, and to prevent the
health of the whole body being jeopardised by the local ail'
ment. Bad legs, old age's great grievance, are thus readily
cured without confining the patient to bed or withdrawing'
from him the nutritious diet and generous support so W'
peratively demanded, when weakening diseases attack
advanced years, or constitutions evincing premature de'
or epitude.

London: Printed and Prbilalied by WILLIAM ANDREW'S
of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at THE SUN Office Nn. 112.
Strand, in the Precinct of the !Savoy, n the Com'', 01
Middlesex.—Tuesday, June 28,1864.