The Sun.
London, England, 1852-05-06 00:00:00

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041 / rani
1,2317
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LONDON THURSDAY ' ls; MAY 6 1852.

PATRON—H. R. A: PRINCE ALBERT.
OPAL- roL STITUTION.
Bachhoffner and Defries's new Patent Polytechnic Gas Fire
will be exhibited and lectured on on Monday, Wednesday,.and Fri-
day, at half-east Three, and on Tuesday and Thursday Evenings, at
Nine.—Lecture on %Bide, by Qcorp Buckland, Esq., illustrated by
Old English and Patiiotic Songs, every evening, except'Saturday, at
Eight o'clock.—A Lecture, by J. IP.'reiper, *Esq., on Glynn and Ap-
pel's Pa'ent Paper for the I'revention of Piracy and Forgery by the
Anastatic Process.—Lecture by Mr; Crispe on the Britanuia Tubular
Bridge, illustrated by Mr. E. Clarlie'sbeautitul Model.—Lecture on
Voltaic Electricity, with brilliant experiments, by Dr. Bachhoffner.—
A splendid New Series of Dissolving Views.—Exhibitton of the
Microscope.—Diver and Diving tell, Btc.,
Admission, Is.; Schools and. Children under Ton years of age,
Elsa-price.

, s -,
for the formation of a jest opluien, before advising the
representatives of the Bookiellers' Associatior, who
have bound themselves to abide by your Lerdship's'de-
cisidn. I shall be glad to kaow' whether, in the event
of such a deputation being appointed, it will be conve-
nient to your Lordship to favour us with an audience,
apart from the gentlemen who represent the Booksellers'
Association. They have already adduced such evidence
a considee sufficient to ensure your Lordship's
jd t in their favour; and os we have no desire to
us t:ezny n
enter into a personal discussion with thfin on the sub•
joet, a separate interview weir!' ',be more accordant with
k our views. I venture to write afore the meeting above
referred to takes place, in order; o prevent inconvenience
to your Lordship, as I learn `that your Lordship has
already consented to meet the representatives of the-
Booksellers' Association on the 17th of May.—l am, my
Lord, your Lordship's obedient servant,
"JOHN CHAPMAN."
Stratheden House, April 28, 1852.
"Sir,--I myself would be most happy—and-so lam
sure would the Dean of St. Paul's and Mr. Grote—to con-
fer with the deputation yotimention, upon the terms you-
propose. But, inetead'of yur coming to us separately, I
strongly advise you to attend here on'the 17th or May.
we appointed that day expressly
to afford you an oppor-
tunity of meeting U 3, and by no means xalasteely for
the association. You may depend upon it, that from the
un
proposed arrangement nothing pleasant to any of tho
parties can occur.
" I remain; your obedient servant,
"John Chapman, Eq." -
"CAMPBELL.
Lord Campbell fully" understanding_ that while his
opinion would be respected; his arbitration was not to be
accepted as final or deeisive. The " statement" of Mr.
Chapman was, in effect, a reproduction of the documents
avid arguments with which the public is already familiar.
It was listened to throughout with great interest.
Mr. BABBAGE moved the first resolution: "The prin-
ciples of free trade havinreelelteeteeen established by ex-
perience as vvelLaktvkirgulssett,Fitia thenpinieu pfB4.4is,
meeting that they ought to be applied to books as to all
°tbsr articles of commerce." The principles enunciated
in this reeolution he had held all his life, applying them
every other trade.
tHoothweacsomoomoevricLeodf
tlhitaetratthuree
Balsokto6olow,
Asth6iation
greatly misapprehended both their rights and their in-
some temporary mischief', as the consequence of abolish-
ing and though there might- ie. 80,7,0
arters be
artificial regulations and consenting to a natural and
quarters
wholesale trade, he was satisfied in the end general bene-
fit eveu to the retail booksellers thsnaselves would be the
result. He did not see why the arrangement for a more
natural state of things could not be made gradually and
quietly. This was a matter in which there need be no
violent hurry. Free trade in this, as in every depart-
attempt the
in eovf i taaobyl ea; r
tai nii do i a ilt r
ewgausl a follytio o
of
fo
the
price of
such a commodity as a book.
maintenancem e depart-
ment,
t
Mr. ROBERT BELL seconded the resolution. Ho re-
garded this indirectly as an author's question, the sale
of an author's bock, and being dependent upon the price
of the book. He had some doubts if the expression
" free trade" was discreetly used in the resolution. The
phrase might leave some wrong quasi-political impres-
sions, and might deter the alliance of some friends; and,
further than that, he 'questioned .if competition, pro-
perly considered as competition in the ordinary commer-
cial sense, would be regarded as applying to the book
trade. For instance, he could not see how Mr. Ma-
caulay's " History," or any similar distinctly eminent
book, could be regarded as being exposed to competi-
tion. In the main principle implied in the resolution he
entirely agreed. The retailer became absolute proprietor
of the copy which he purchased; and it was obviously
his right to sell that property at whatever price he
pleased. Perhaps there might be unfair underselling, if
all restrictions were removed; and this was to be avoided
by the publisher diminishing the margin of allowance
between the advertised and the trade price.

r.o_ia PUBLlCpioTuiitoail-lovngat-esrtasnudpit p,long-standing
JOURNALS.ycsoenetrnrosvaetrslyastrtco.
.CPc. Ittßl e'g N: I
the
uoLf t
e Et
be practically reified. The few remaining defenders of
the Board of Health may perhaps att_mapt to re-open the
discussion in the House; but there will be little disposi-
tion on the part either of the Government or of Penile-
ment to overrule the contlesions at which the Select
Committee have arrived at the close of its laborious in-
vestigation. The present Bill, as amended, coincides in
almost all reaps eta with the arrangements which we have
repeatedly recommended as just and practicable. The
supply of water to London is still to be confided to pri-
vate enterprise, but the companies are subjected to va-
rious important restraints and conditions for the protec-
tion of the public. The important question of rates
remains unsettled, in consequence of the judicious
determination of the Committee to deal separately with
the case of every district in the metropolis. The fair
price of water, as of any other ,commodity, depend on
its cost, and therefore varies greatly according to local
circumstances. Some of the companies are, up to the
present time, under no legal restriction as regards their
scale of charges,whiloothers, laving recently had occasion'
to solicit new Parliamentary powers, are subjected to the
provisions of the Waterworks Clauses Act. By the
pending Bills a maximum rate will be fixed for every
water district in London; and the Committee will no
doubt take care to provide for future reductions by im-
posing at the same _time a limit on the dividends, ac-
cording to ordinary modern practice. The progress of
building in the outskirts of London, and the probable in-
troduction of a water supply into the poorer tenements,
may in a few years afford the means, not only of enrich-
ing the stockholders, but of greatly relieving the present
consumers. The history Of the recent struggle affords a
striking proof of the utility of a judicial inquiry in dis-
pelling prejudice, and of the necessity of maintaining the
existing securities for the protection of property. . Oaly
two or three :years have elapsed since the_ ,Bond of
.1245941ga aefelexopular-_clamour,. founded
on their own frivolous and garbled itatiitios, to recotn-
mend that all the existing Water resources of Louden
ahould be at once'arbitrarily abandoned. The Thames.
and the streams of Hertfordshire were suddenly disco-
vered' to be unfit for human consumption; and the
Board determined to bring supplies exclusively from
the Surrey hills, where no water had previously been
known to exist. It seems strange that any Govern-
ment could so far countenance such quackery as to
make that project an excuse for impeding all the schemes
which were actually proposed, either by the present
companies or by rival capitalists, for extending or im-
proving the water supply. At last, however, the Board
attracted the attention of the Administration by a new
and still more daring eccentricity. An ingenious gen-
tleman was sent into Surrey to collect evidencehour of the official " gathering grounds;" and he came
founded in fa-
backhour
hsuicphpwohi
sti hes
deamdni
pselewoo:v. feearrnsyg
o
e a m s
elbeaaddproject
rs f springsheaisrdo own,
onand sf. et
latterr
h
coolly adopted the substituted plan; and they once more
claimed a monopoly for their new device, at the expense
of all the establishments which had, up to that period,
• ueplied London with water. Their last Nagar), had the
fortunate effect of enlightening Sir George Grey as to
the true character of. his subordinate advisers. A scien-
tific commission was appointed, which afterwards con-
tradicted in detail almost all the propositions respecting
the quality of our supplies which had been long and in-
dustriously circulated in blue books at the public ex-
pense; and a Bill—which, however, was wholly untena-
ble in itself—was submitted to a Committee of the House
of Commons, which has been virtually reappointed in the
S
present session. The measure of 1851 was framed by
William Clay, under the influence probably of a
temporary alarm. It was understood that he
afterwards abandoned his own proposals, and the
Government which endorsed them never affected to give
them any hearty or sincere support. It was provided by
that abortive scheme that all the companies should be
amalgamated, but no principle was laid down for the
valuation of the stock on which the dividends limited by
the Bill were to be calculated. .A power ofai, most ano-
malous kind was given to the Secretary of State, en-
abling him to direct the Water Company at any time to
resort to any new source of supply. It was evident that
this provision was the result of a remnant of the perni-
cious influence formerly, possessed by the Board: of
Health. -It was perhaps not intended that so extraor-
dinary a discretion should ever be exercised ; but the
clause would have enabled any obstinate or capricious
Minister to rain the Water •Company at a moment's
notice, and perhaps at the same time to leave London
dry. It would have been almost as reasonable to
give the Secretary of !State power to order the di-
version of the Great Western Railway into any line
which ho might deem preferable to its actual course.
In the present year, the same obnoxious provision
was retained, although Lord Seymour had the good
sense to abandon the proposed compulsory amalgama-
tion. When the Bill was first introduced, we explained
the objections which attached to its detaile, stating our
groutais for .b.dieving that a Committee would probably
be unto to convert it into a working measure. The
Board of Trade, instead of the Secretary of State, is now
to be invested with a certain power of inspection and
control over the ordinary working of each company, and
over the adoption of new sources of supply. All the
existing establishments are to be compelled to filter their
water—a process hitherto employed only by three or
four companies. Covered reservoirs and water-courses
are to be introduced within those limits to which the
smoke of London may be considered to extend its dete-
riorating influence. T'no system of constant supply is
to become universal within a period of five years. The
rates, as we have already stated, aro to be regulated ac-
cording to circumstances, under the provisions of spe-
cial Acts; and consequently the most material detail
of the new arrangement still remains to be settled.
Oue of the most important provisions adopted by the
Committee limits the supply to the waters of the
Thames ' or of its tributaries, taken above the range
of the tide. But a large portion of the population of
London has no interest in the new regulation. The
New River and the East London Companies supply more
than half the metropolis from the Now River and from
the Lea, above the tidal flew. Greenwich and Woolwich,
with the adjoining suburbs, depend on the Ravens-
bourne; and the Lambeth Company has recently opened
its nobe works at Dutton, some distance above Tedding.
ton Leek. The Grand Juni:Lion and the West Middle-

Mr. T. SAUNDERS (bookseller, of Charing-cross), ad-
dressed the meeting. The gist of his observations was,
that the Booksellers' Association was proceeding upon
the fairest principles of trade, and that the restrictions
which were kept up were necessary: for the protection
of the dealer. " Free trade" had nothing to do.with the
question. He was a free-trader; but he denied that
itia question of the regulations of a trade could be set-
tled with reference to the axioms of free trade. Free
trade applied to the taxes on bouks, and to the import
of books, but not to the terms oa which a body of re-
tailers should conduct their business. Mr. Saunders
was supporting the proposition that the meeting was
unwarrantably attempting to interfere with the profits of
the retail booksellers, when several gentlemen inter'
rupted
denying that this was the question, and
The CHAIRMAN suggested to Mr. Saunders that his
remarks did net apply to the affirmations of the reso-
lution.—(Cheers )
Mr. SAUNDERS would then consent to speak simply
to the preeLie terms of the resolutions. He continued,
however, in the same strain, and became involved in a
dispute with Mr. Bentley as to the former discounts al-
lowed to the trade.

Mr. Novnr..T.o- replied at-kvgth to Mr. Senn?....
Mr. G. WILLIS took the same view a; Mr. Saunders,
and altogether denied the right of such a meeting to
ined3le in trade arrangements,
Mr. SOTHERON followed on the same side; and an
angry discuseion arose as to the precise points at issue.
[An amendment directly opposA to the resolution was
prOpeed by Messrs. Willis and Sotheron, and afterwards
withdrawn; and a supplementery dieeeseion was then
provoked us to the right of alessrs. Saunders, Willis, and
Sotheron being present. Mr. Chapman said the meeting
had been convened for a specific object, gentlemen hold-
ing a particular set of opinions only oa the question hav-
ing been invited; and he explained that on handing one
of the circulars to Mr. Saunders he had taken for granted
that that gentleman would not offer to take part in the
proceedings. He was surprised, therefore, that Mr.
Saunders and his friends should have not only spoken,
but moved an amendment. Hereupon, Messrs. Saunders,
Willis, and Sotheron, offered to withdraw; bet Mr. Chap-
man begged that they would not do so; and the chair-
man, with the evident approbation of the meeting ex-
pressed his determination, dissentients being present, to
positions they
hear all they had to-
might thsayink fit t. and faoirly to put whatever pro-
The resolution, after so make.]
me further conversation, was
carried, throe han Only being
held up against it.
Mr. CARLES KNT proposed, and Ail, Tom TAT-
Lon seconded, the next resolution:—" That the princi-
ples of the Booksellers' A,a,t ,
-80c,ion are not only op-
posed to those of free trade, but are extremely te ranni-
cal and vexatious in their application, and result in
Ito-ping the prices of books much higher than they would
otherwise be, thus restricting their sale, to the great
injury of authors, the public, and of all connected with
literature."
Mr. 13-osa (of the aim of Bickers and Buah) spoke
to the resolution. In his opinion, the association which
cern() to him to dictate the terms on which he should
deal with his customers might he properly handed over
to the peliee.—(Leughter.)
The resolution was carried unanimously, the three dis-
eentieuts ceasing to offer further opposition.
The third resolution, which was carried, was nroposed
by Professor NEWMAN, And seconded by Prol'essor
ANSTED:—" This meeting seconded
the peculiarity of
the book
trade—viz., that the publisher fixes and adver-
tises the retail price of his publications—alO valid argu-
ment for the maintenance of the present restrictive
sys•
tern, and that the less tho office of
Promoting the retail
sale is centralised in the publisher, and the more it de-
volves on the local bookselltr, the better for the com-
merce of literature.
Professor OWEN Proposed the next resolution—
i. That the trade restrictions, -falling as they do with
peculiar severity upon booksi of
a Comparatively limited
, greatly retar the specee 01 tho Heel'
peculiar
branches of science and philosophy by rendering it
profitable, and, and, indeed, dangerous, to ,, :I, publish works de-
voted to them. lie illustrated the argument of the re-
solution by referring to his own experience as an author
of books on scientific subjects. The difficulty of get-
ting such books published had led to combinations of
scientific men, who had turned amateur publishers, and
who made the publications pay by fixing natural instead
of artificial prices on them. The publishing system was
obviously a rotten one, or it would not drive scientific
authors to, these resources. i
Dr. LANKESTER seconded he resolution; and on
being put it was carried.
proposed the fifth resolutio " That ex-
Mr. WARD
having repeatedly shown that tradesiLl with arti-
ficially
ticially high profits and
system of low profits nan and a large,
forced into the nature.
this meeting is of ofpurinfirocnlnthiantinthrionabolition of
market,
the present restrictions, so . „ g the, book-
selling business, will greatly benefit It.
Mr. CHAPMAN seconded it; and after a speech from
place in referlitacwea.
visa
their
Mr. SAUNDERS, it was carried.
A conversation then
took Lord Campbell.
suggestion to wait upont
Chapman should wait mut:-
mately decided that
s's
r.
Lordship, and should convey to
views of the meeting. Mr.
appointed day, on his
him the resolutions andwl..o
to
Lord
,Campbell, and to
the.
Dickens undertook to. . it
had declined to appoint a com-
mittee that the meetinggon
the ground that as the only
mittee as a deputation,
airmen
constituting the meeting
appeal made by
the
gentlemen
not be courteous to his Lord-
shipwas to the public, it would
implying in itself an acceptance
to act I.n a mariner
of his definite umpirgg,e.
Mr. Bush, however, made it
understood that, as an
individual, he should certainly
attend the deputation of the Association of Booksellers
to Stratheden-housc.
The meeting then broke up after a vote of thanks to
exercised the most consummate
the Chairman, who had
constantly
threatening
tact throughout proceedings
,k laruly turn.

sex Companies-will have to retreat from Kew to a point
somewhat higher up the river; and the Chelsea and
Southwark and Vauxbal works must be removed from
their present questionable position in Chelsea React,.
When these changes shall have been effected, any fu-
ture addie ion to the water supply —should it ever be
required—will probaoly ba drawn from the chalk
to the north of London. There is, however, teo
objection to any contribution which may hereafter
be sque, zed out of the arid sands of Farnham.
In a conversation which arose some weeks since
on this subject in the House of Con:Hone, Lord
Ebringten attempted to introduce the general sanitary
question—expressing, at the same time, an apprehension
ttiat the lower districts south of the river might be
swamped by an excoseive flew of water. It is desirable
that Parliament should remember that there are two
independent objects to bo considered in dealing with
this matter. The present Bill purports to provide put-
chasers with an unlimited supply of water, of the best
quality and at the cheapest rate which circumstances
may permit. The question of providing a universal dis-
tribution of the supply Is an entirely indifbrent one. At
this moment the companies would willingly furnish the
poorest lodging-house in London with all the water
which it could use. If the price forms the impediment,
it may be hoped that the present measure will lead to a
reduction in the rates; but the fact is that tho poor will
not pay for a comfort which, beyond a certain limit, they
have not yet learned to regard as a necessary of life.
It is for Parliament to decide- whether a" compulsora,
water-rate Shall be levied on the owners of houses in-
habited by the poor. In consideration of such an arrange-
ment, tho companies might fairly bo required to
submit to a reduction of their ordinary rates. There
are many grounds on which Parliament, on behalf of the
public, is entitled to interfere for the purpose of supply-
ing every dwelling with water. -A Man bas a right to
be uncomfortable himself, and perhaps to impose annoy-
ances on tenants who may be willing to comply with his
terms; but no one has a right to increase the risks of
fire, or to create a certainty of fever. The advocates of
sanitary. 'improvement will do well to direct a
portion of their energies towards securing a universal
supply of water; and their efforts will certainly not be
impeded by the circumstance that there is already a
main, fully charged, within a short distance of the most
wretched lodging-house in London. The water is there,
and it will run through a service pipe the moment that a
bargain is made either by law or by special confrao
It is idle to wait for some other mode of auPPlYobteor be
provided by souse different management. '
municipality nor a Government Board can getilwe'ite'orrfoer
nothing. Let the means of securing a reasonable price
be provided; and then it will be time
tolinacinds.
whether the companies are exorbitant in their
Mr. Glad-
ADVERTISER.—The case of the Rev. n puire
stone is that of the Reformation against Popery;
pthoawteorf,
the Protestant clergyman against the !troll y
which is now openly assumed as of aieinear. gat b the
prelates who rebelliously denied here_ 31;
reignty as supreme head of the Cbh b ajuealtyit'sissoaviseo-
uth the bishops and
the case of every layman against
Tractarians, have entered the Churcht po
priests of Rome, who, under the clooa'ief,owf
trhuesepaoirtpesoseanodf
pe. Their ob-
undermining her, and introdubcf.nsg h
0„
dis identical with that
ject in regard to the lay mem
of Archbishop Mud, who boasts that the time was
however high might
coming when no English laymen,
be his rank and station, would dare to stand uncovered
in the presence of the meanest servant of the Church.
ed to the Christian reli-
ggle Rome,
Let not those who dissent from theteEressttaebdl,isban.mdendte,epnloyr,
even those who never belong
gioo, imagine that they
too, in the issue of the pe
gthe nefarious •
aronrot metro
perittheostreaendticeurateest of churches
and its dishonest cmissarits, in dieguiee
of bishops, parsons of
and chapels of euso, for if
ascen-
daucy, the red arm of religious persecution_g willt eagainb
bared to the shoulders, the fires of Smithfield will again
blaze from morning till night, and a band of Celtic sa-
vages, the devoted sieves or the Popish priests, already
traine'd and thirstingfor "heretic and infidel blood,,' will
er three days and nights of
re-enact she horrors Of another
Barthalcuiew iu rho streets of the Uletroplia and all ov

0 an u,

---- --
HOSPITAL FOU— CONSUMPTION, BROMPTON.—IIis
Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge, attended by Lord
William Poulett, paid a visit of inspection on Tuesday to the
above institution, preparatory to his taking the chairyesterday
at the festival to be held in commemorarion of the east wing.
His Royal Highness was received by the Rev. Sir H. Penns,
the chairman of the committee of management, Sir Thomas
Physician
Gladstone, G. Wingfield, Esq., Dr. Carsham, the
of the day, and the other officers of the institution. Ibis
Royal Highness spent a considerable time in the inspection,
and expressed himself highly gratified with the general ar.
rangements.
RATIONAL EXCISE,—Wbat would be a pool sub-
stitute for. taxes on knowledge?—Taxes on ignorance; , b-
ecause,ln the' present state of popular education, tuey would
9c"441/Y 41414 mars EVAUtir3o7_43l/"11"-