The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-30 00:00:00

at once or a sum monthly, the majority might choose
to have the larger sum immediately—(Hear, hear)—
although a monthly pa) meat might off ird a bettor secu-
rity fog the attend sone of the men. But this is a matter
of detail, and with the exception of these matters of de-
tail, with which we can deal when the Bill is in a proper
shape, I am bound to say that the plan proposed by the
Government is one highly deserving of the favour and
sanction of the House.—(Cheers.) My Right Hon.
Friend says that I shall find fault with the 13i11 because
it does not provide for the defence of Scotland and Ire-
land. I did not exactly hear what fell from the Right
Hon. Gentleman on that point, but I apprehend the pro-
posed force will be liable to all the obligitions of the
militia law, and that the militia so raised will be liable
to servo in any pert of the United Kingdom.—(Hear,
hear, from Lord J. Russell.) I apprehend it is to be a
militia or reserve of 80,000, raised chiefly by voluntary
enlistment, trained during time of peace, embodied on
the approach of war; and when embodied, liable to serve
in any part of the United Kingdom. So, far, therefore,
from taking advantage of this measure to turn out the
Government, I think it is one which should claim from
us every possible assistance, as I think it is of the ut-
most importance to the country.—(Hear.)
Colonel THOMPSON contended that the warlike es-
tabli,h mews of other countries ought not to be made the
measure of our own. On the contrary, if the whole
continent were one network of fortresses, it was no
reason why we should add a single man to our army or
navy. Gentlemen on his side of the House felt the
pressure from without, and their constituents demanded
some reason for the:e augmentations of military force.
For his own part, he thought them unnecessary. If
France excited alarm, it should be remembered that the
star of its present ruler was not rising. On the con-
trary, it was falling, and that, too, in spite of the
cheers of corporals and the embraces of demoiselles de
l'llalle.—(Loud laughter.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—Sir, I am ono of those who think
that the defences of this country ought to be increased
—(Llear, hear)—and I confess that it never appeared to
me to be a satisfactory reason against such an in-'
crease to say that at the present moment we are
at peace with all the world, and there is no im-
mediate prospect of hostilities.—(Hear.) For Sir, we
know perfectly well, from former experience, that
although there may be no cause of hostilities existing,
yet that in the course of any two or three months, or in
any one year, there may arise causes of hostility which
it may be very difficalt for Government and Parliament
so to arrange as to prevent the calamity of war.—(Bear,
hear.) And these are questions which very often do not
depend upon the disposition of any particular Govern-
ment.—(llear, hear.) I certainly would no rest site
..p. noels aerence upon the Government of France or
any other country. I think, on the contrary, we should
consider the present ruler of France to be as well dis-
posed to peace as any person who might be at the head
of the Government of that country. As is the case
with this country, he governs France with a high feel-
ing of honour and of susceptibility to indignity.
Between two such nations, putting aside the United
States and other countries, it is impossible to say
that causes of hostility may not at any time arise.
—(Hear.) Five or six years ago, for instance,
when no one was dreaming of war or hostilities,
we heard that au injury had been inflicted on a consul
of this country in the South Seas. Sir Robert Peel,
then Prime Minister, came down to this House and de-
clared the injury to be wanton, and that reparation must
be demanded and obtained. Now, suppose the Govern-
ment of France had said that no injury had been in-
flicted, and no reparation was due or would be given,
would not a great cause of hostility have sprung up?—
(Hear.) The Government of France, however, was
more wisely, disposed to pacific councils, and the matter
was arranged. But I believe that at the time the Mi-
nister of France would have been very popular if he
had said that no indemnity was due to Mr. Pritchard,
and that reparation should be withheld. You can never
say, therefore, that war may not arise from causes to-
tally unforeseen.—(Hear, hear.) Agreeing, therefore,
that our means of defence ought to bo increased, I con-
fess I have heard with great pleasure the very able state-
ment of the Right Hon. Gentleman. At the same time
I must say, that although I thought him very clear and
explicit with respect to great portions of the measure he
proposed to introduce, there were other portions not so
agreeable, perhaps, to touch upon, and which therefore,
following the rule of Horace, he seemed anxious to avoid.
For, Sir, the great difficulty experienced in proposing a
militia is the question of the ballot. If you cannot get
80,000 volunteers you must have recourse to the ballot.
Now, I think we ought to have some explanation on the
this head—whether the ballot is to take place in the
unions, whether districts are to be formed, and what class
of persons are to be subject to the ballot; whether, also,
substitutes are to be allowed, and whether all the per-
sons enrolled will be subject to five years service in case
of there being danger of invasion. I think these ques-
tions ought to be 'answered, in order that we may know
-what the proposed law is to be; because, although the
Right Hon. Gentleman seems confident as to the volun-
teers being forthcoming, I do not feel so certain that
the inducement of the first year will bo as effectual in
the second. I think the Right Hon. Gentleman spoke
of an option with regard to taking the whole 41. I in-
cline to believe that whereas the 4/. would be found
generally acceptable, the monthly payment would not
prove so great a temptation. Two shillings and six-
pence a month, or one penny a day, although it may be
a fee for a voluntary militiaman, would not, I think, be
considered a fee at all in the Court of Chancery.—(llear,
hear, and a laugh.) Now if you do not obtain these
volunteers, or even if you obtain 50,000 in the first year,
but do not succeed in procuring the remaining 20.000
or 30,000 in the second, you must then have recourse
to the ballot; and I confess I do not know under what
Act of Parliament there is any satisfactory mode of pro-
curing this large number of men under the ballot. It is
also desirable that we should know for what time the
ballot is to extend, whether it is to apply to the inha-
bitants of particular districts, and at what ages it is to
apply . Notwithstanding the clear and able statement
ot' the Right Hon. Gentleman, I confess that in this re-
spect my notion of the measure is very imperfect, but I
think it quite clear that the Bill should be brought in.—
( Hear, hear.) For my own part, for the reasons which
I have before given, and for the reasons stated by the
Right Lion. Gentleman to-night, I should prefer a large
military force of this kind to an increase of the regular
army. This, however, is a matter not only for us but
the country to judge of—(Hear, hear)—and if there
should appear so great a repugnanc, to the militia force
as some people suppose, we may be obliged, not perhaps
wholly to abandon such a means of defence, but to have
recourse to an increase of our military force in prefer-
epee. lam very glad to fiud tho Noble Lord the Mem-
her for Tiverton (Lord Palmerston) quite ready to agree
to this Bill. I had the misfortune to differ from him—
(A laugh)—and because my Bill only applied to England
he asked if Seotchmen were cowards and Irishmen trai-
tors? As it is now proposed that the militia when em-
bodied shall be liable to sent to any part of
the United Kingdom, the same objection will not apply.
With regard generally to this proposal, I trust the Right
Hon. Gentlemen will also furnish us with a satisfactory
statement wcilolnbnettoedthwe
ictohuann
' hereof
is the-
try. Tanother expense thissubject,force
o rce
too,
ec
'ncrease of expense, on which I hope soon to hear the
determination of the Government. It is the question of
ways and means, and how the expenses of the country
are to be met. I trust also that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer will very soon inform the House what ho
means to do with respect to the renewal of the income-
tax. The income-tax expires on the sth April next,
and unless that Act be renewed the dividends duo in
July will be paid without any deduction. Not pressing
for a premature statement on this subject, I hope that
no length of time may be suffered to elapse without the
Right Hon. Gentleman acquainting us with his in.
tentions.—(Hear.)
Mr. WALPOLE, in reply to the questions of the Noble
Lord, said it was proposed to take the men required from
the Registrar General's districts, as superior facilities were
afforded by the census of 1851. It was also proposed to fall
back upon the ballot in the event of the failure of the
volunteer system, and to allow substitutes. With regard to
the expense of such a force, if 31. a man was paid as bounty,
the sum required for the first 50,000 men would be 150,000/. ;
and the 30,000 men to be raised next year would cost
90,000/. Of course, ,if the bounty was 4/., the expenditure
would be somewhat ;more. The pay and allowances to
50.000 men and officers would be for twenty-one days,
87,129/. ; marching money for men joining and returning,
6,250/.; carriage of baggage, 5,000/. ; clothing, 11. 15s. a
man, i.):3,663/.; extra allowance to innkeepers, 15,000/. ;
making a total for 1852 of 207,042/. The 30,000 men pro-
posed to be enrolled for 1853 would entail an iadditional ex.
" 2,180/. innkeepers' allow-
pense 38,027/. 10s. for the twenty-one
for days' training, with
3,82 a/ for marching money,
for medecine, &c., a total expenditure
with some allowances
anus; clothing (at 1/. 15s. per man), 53,5501. ; making,.
for the two
ing provided in 1852 (93,030, the total cost of 80,000
veers of 311,9521., deducting the cost of cloth-
men for 1853 would be 218,288 n ; and again deducting the
coat of clothing
e in
a cost for five years, he be-
lieved , might boelit6al4kl33Bt(lo.s3stand el
t)'hu s :—For 1852, 200,000/. ;
for 1853, 210,00
Ages
of
18 and
whether
for 1854, 160,000/. ;
theßß BRIGHT asked
etghular army.
for 1855, 160,0001.;
for
the ballot Would apply
be-
tween A l r.
eunderstoodeteti'ee in tt
the
eo
Mr. WALPOLE_Veds 35?
comMmr.eDndUainFatZt3n
Mr. COBDEN said that as therePP
ose the Bill, and to
wasre-
to be no division on
interest in the the motion for bringing in tfiboemßitlhlr,e
Then all
discus-
sion had ceased.—(" No,"
he could say was, that if there was a division
against the introduction of the measure. sio,phehe should vote
experienced in these discussions had become difficulty he
greater; for the more he heard of the necessity o increasedand
greater
armaments urged in both Houses of Parliament,
the more
was at a loss to conceive the ground on which the necessity
was founded. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Walpole)s
had admitted that the country was never freer from a state
of hostilities than now; and the Hon. and Gallant Member
for Westminster—that city which was to have been pillaged
by the invader—had said it was impossible ter a foreign
force to be landed in this country without our being fully
forewarned.
Lord PALMERSTON expressed dissent.
Mr. COBDEN continued—The Noble Lord contradicted
him, and thought it was possible for a sudden attack to be
made.

Lord PALMERSTON—Hear' hear.
Mr. COBDEN—The Noble Lord cheered; but he (Mr.
Cobden) not pinning
his faith to any noble lord's, would
appeal to historical facts. It was said that the elder Napo-
leon contemplated an invasion of England; but were his
preparations sudden or the work of a day? But Napoleon
was preparing his military armaments for a period of twelve
months. There were not 40,000 men in that expedition, and
it took 400 or 500 transports to carry those armaments after-
wards to Egypt. He thought it was admitted that it would
be impossible for any sudden descent to be made upon the
English coast by a regular army and navy.
Then he sup-
posed that these preparations were intended to prevent
surprising u .
10,000. or 15,009 desperadoes • • s Surely the
establishment of a militia would not prevent such charac-
ters surprising us, if they had ever formed the notion. Such
men must be those who were determined to sacrifice
themselves. If there was a body of Thugs in France
who were determined to do mischief in this country,
and to show their invulnerability, how could We prevent