The Sun.
London, England, 1864-06-15 00:00:00

Meeting of Middlesex Magistr ates.

THE GOVERNMENT GAOLS BILL.

A special meeting of the magistrates of the county
of Middlesex was held yesterday at the Sessions
House, Clerkenwell•green, to consider the Gaols Bill
now before the House of Commons, and to take such
measures regarding the said bill as the Court may
deem necessary.
Mr. HENRY POWNALL occupied the chair.
The report of the Parliamentary Committee of the
Court was presented by Mr. Turner, which, after
alluding to the bill, merely recommended some
slight addition to one of the clauses.

Mr. Sergeant PAYNE said under this bill powers
would be given to the Secretary of State to alter and
annul rules for the government of prisons. At the
present time the clerk of the peace was required to
send once a year all existing rules for the govern-
ment of prisons approved by the justices and all new
rules which were proposed, and when a certificate
was received that they had been sanctioned by him
they had the force of law; but under the 4th clause
of the present bill it was enacted," That it shall be
lawful for one of her Majesty's principal Secretaries
of State, by writing under his hand, from time to
time, and without such rules being submitted to him,
to annul, alter, or add to any rules for the time being
in force for the government of any gaol, and any
rules made by the said Secretary of State in pur-
suance of this section shall be binding upon sheriffs
and all other persons during the time that they are
in force." Therefore it was clear that under this
section he would have power to put his pen through
all the rules that were then in existence, or alter them
in any way that he might think it fit to do. He could
wipe out all existing rules and orders, and make new
rules and orders without consulting the justices at
all, and therefore he said that this bill would give the
Secretary of State powers which were contrary and
repugnant to the very spirit of the Constitution of
the country. If it were not so, then, he asked, what
was the use of this act of Parliament ? By the act of
the sth and 6th William IV., it was required that
all rules in force, with copies of proposed rules,
should be submitted to the Secretary of State ; but
by the fourth clause of this act he could alter,
annul, or add to any rules without their being sub-
mitted to him, and such rules of altered rules
would be binding upon all persons. That was a
most dangerous clause, and one that ought never
to have been submitted to the House of Commons.
There was no doubt that Sir George Grey had been
pestered by a certain class of persons out of doors,
and scarcely knew what to do, but he (Mr. Payne)
did not believe that his own mind went with such
an enactment as that. The learned sergeant having
read the sth clause of the bill, said that clause
would give him power to authorise a Roman Catho-
lic chapel to be built in Coldbath-fields prison, and
if that was not complied with he could order the
Roman Catholic prisoners to be removed to some
other gaol, there enter a contract for the erection of
a new Roman Catholic chapel, and then call upon
the magistrates of the county, and they would be
bound to pay for it.
Mr. SWIFT said Sir George Grey had disavowed,
in the House:of Commons, any intention of doing
anything of the kind.
Mr. Sergeant PAYNE said that might be so, but
Sir George Grey would not always be Secretary of
State: This bill placed that power in the office of
Secretary of State, and the question was not what
he intended to do, but what the law authorised him
to do. He could enter into contracts which were
binding on the justices, but the Secretary of State
incurred no liability whatever. He bound the jus-
tices, but he refused to be bound himself, and said
he was not liable for anything. When the money
was to be paid, he:stepped behind the screen, say-
ing, " These are the gentlemen who are to pay ; I
am not liable." His (Mr. Payne's) objection to the
bill was that it gave the Secretary of State an un-
constitutional power. He could bind the magi-
strates without their consent in any way he pleased ;
he could call upon them to pay any expenditure he
might incur out of the county rate. Their autho-
rity was set at nought, and they would be no
longer the guardians of the county rate or the county
purse. His objection was not merely to the power
of appointing Roman Catholic chaplains, but it was
to the principle of the bill ; for such undefined, un-
limited, and dangerous powers ought not to be given
to any man. He hoped the Court would agree to
his motion to petition the House of Commons
against the bill, and if that should be agreed to he
would then submit a form of petition.

Mr H. H. HARWOOD seconded the motion. He
seconded the requisition to call this meeting; for
this was a matter of the deepest importance to the
county, and they ought not to allow the opportu-
nity to pass without giving expression to their
feelings on the subject. The Court of Aldermen of
the City of London had already taken action on this
bill, and they thought it strange that they were not
backed up by the magistrates of the county. The
preamble stated that " it was expedient to amend
the law relating to gaols, and to discontinue certain
gaols that are inadequately provided with the means
of regulating the discipline and classification of
prisoners ;" and as in many instances the governor
had almost the entire control, the placing this power
in the hands of a competent authority might be
attended with good results. But the most unrea-
sonable and the most objectionable part of the bill
was the fourth section. It had been drawn with
great art, ingenuity, and subtlety, and seemed to be
totally unconnected with the bill. The Parliamen-
tary committee said this bill gave the Secretary of
State no more power than he then possessed ; but
be said then, cui bono—what was the use of this
clause ?

Mr TURNER said when the rules were submitted
to the Secretary of State he could alter the whole
of them, and he could add fifty new ones if he
thought fit.

Mr HARWOOD said even if he admitted that, he
did not see the use of this clause in the bill unless
it was for some lurking mischief ; but he hoped
what was said in that court would be spread over
the-length and breadth of the land, and show that
the magistrates of this county had discussed the
measure, so that the hands of those country gentle-
men who had seats in the House of Commons might
be strenghthened in recording their votes against
the bill.

Mr. TURNER did not believe that the bill was in-
tended to take from the Court the power that the
Prison Ministers Bill gave them, for if such rules
were made as to be in opposition to that bill they
would become void. That was a recognised prin-
ciple of law. No power would be given by it to
alter the law of the land, but merely to carry it
out, and nothing more.

Mr. Sergeant:PAYNE having shortly replied,
The CHAIRMAN put the motion, which was car•
tied with about four diessntients.

Mr. Bergeant PAYNE then moved the following
petition be presented to the louse of Commons
against th© bill

"The Petition of the Magistrates of the
County of Middlesex—

" Showetla—That your petitioners have observed
with surprise and regret that a bill applying to
all county and city prisons, gaols, and houses of
correction in England has been introduced into
your hon. house, by which most undefined powers
are proposed to be given to one of her Majesty's
Principal Secretaries of State to annul, alter, or
add to any rake for the time being in force for the
government of any gaol, without the concurrence
of her Majesty's justices of the peace for such
counties or cities, and for authorising such Secre-
tary of State in certain cases to make contracts in
the names of such justices, by which they are to be
bound without their consent to pay out of the
county rates for the removal to, and the lodging
and maintenance of county and city prisoners in
other gaols; and the said bill also proposes to give
such Secretary of State the Power of making a par-
tial order applying to particular prisoners or par-
ticular classes of prisoners confined in such gaols,
and to make the keeper of any prison who disobeys
such order of the Secretory of State subject to a
penalty of £2O per day, in addition to any other
punishment to which he may be liable.
"That such provisions are contrary to the exist-
ing regulations, by which the Government of
county and city prisons are placed under the direc-
tion of the county and city justices, who have now