The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-30 00:00:00

TUESDAY

ably fine police force in Ireland; and we had put arms into
the hands of Irishmen drawn from the very class of persons
from whom the militia force would be drawn in England.—
( Hear.) The Irish people were always good and loyal sub-
jects, and made the best of soldiers.—(Hear.) The House
had heard of the expense consequent upon the enrolment of
the militia. He would ask the House what was the part of
England which was most exposed to invasion? It was the
southern portion of the coast; and the Bill limited the en-
rolment of the militia to England in the first instance, con-
ceiving that it was in England we were the most exposed
to invasion. The Hon. Member for Manchester spoke of
the demoralization of the people, and the evils that would
arise to the trade of the country, in the event of the militia
being called out. He (Major Beresford) could not believe
that such an injury to trade would arise; but if it did, what
would that be in comparison with the consequences which
would follow the invasion of our shores by a large foreign
force ?—( Hear, hear.) And as to the demoralization, they
had no right to suppose there would be a greater amount of
it as the result of calling out the militia than of increasing
the regular army. Again, the militia was only called out for
a limited period, and in that limited period they would have
so much work assigned them that they would have no time
for idleness. If they had plenty given them to do they would
find no opportunity for that demoralization apprehended by
the lion. Member for Manchester. For his (Major Beres•
ford's) part, he thought this a measure of protection.—(lron-
ical cheers and laughter from the Opposition,
answered by
counter cheers ) lie repeated that it was a measure of pro-
tection—of protection to the interests, the virtue, the industry,
and the chastity of Great Britain.—(oh, oh, and laughter.)
Admiral BERKELEY said the lion. Gentleman the Mem-
ber for the West Riding appeared to have recovered his
courage, for some months ago he was the first among the
panic-stricken to condemn and execrate the Admiralty for
the way in which it conducted its business, and for leaving
the country totally unguarded. That showed the Honourable
Gentleman meddled with subjects he did not understand.—
(Hear, hear.) Let it be " soldier, sailor—tinker, tailor," it
was all the same thing to the lion. Gentleman.—(A laugh.)
The Hon. Gentleman stated that he (Admiral Berkeley)
had said he could cover the Channel with vessels within hail
of one another. Did the Honourable Member know how
many ships it would take to cover the space between the
North Foreland and the Channel Islands? So much for the
Hon. Gentleman's seamanship. The Hon. Gentleman had
also stated that if we made all this demonstration it would
elicit a similar manifestation on the part of France; and he
(Admiral Berkeley) had been found fault with both in and
out of that House for making the statement to which he had
already referred. But he told the Honourable Gentleman
and the House, and he pledged his character for it as a naval
officer, that in twenty-four hours after the Government had
given the orders, there would be, not a force to resist,
but there would be a force on the look-out of armed
steamers reaching from the North Foreland to the Channel
Islands.—( Hear, hear.) Did the Hon. Gentleman know
how many ships it would take to cover that space? Did he
know the distance?—(Some Hon. Member said " No.")
Then he did not know what he was talking about.—
, tfhiscautinolnt.erzienitioeeicAtilialillenyn)r,,cno,...eldofalhmisos(tAfdonirgiirvael
Berkeley's) profession, for the Hon. Member was backea up
by one of the greatest officers in the navy, though he was
rather too fond of writing in newspapers. That Gallant
Officer had stated that if his (Admiral Berkeley's) state-
ment, that he could cover the Channel with armed steamers
twenty-four hours after the Government had given the
order, could be realized, " all the old ladies in England
might nut on their nightcaps and go to bed."—(Laughter.)
He (Admiral Berkeley) had thought that Gallant Admiral
was famous for his energy and resource ; but of late he
(Admiral Berkeley) had been inclined to change that
opinion, and to believe the Gallant Admiral's energy and
resource were failing him. That being his impression he
thought he might apply the words of the old song to the
Gallant Admiral, and say—
" The bullets and the gout
Have so knock'd his hull about
That he'll never more be fit for sea."
(Great laughter.) He (Admiral Berkeley) would tell the
House how the thing was to be done.—(" Ay, let's have it,"
and a laugh.) We had before the Lisbon squadron returned
three steamers in commission in our ports ; we had also three
ordinary ships in commission ; and we had fifteen first-class
reserve steam-vessels in every point ready for sea, wanting
the men.—(hear, hear, and a laugh.) Then how were the
men to be raised ? The marines, the officers, the seamen
engineers, and the seamen riggers, were in the dockyards or
on the spot, and the principal of the coast-guard had orders
to get 1,500 men ready to join at Davenport, Portsmouth,
or Sheerness, at which place soever they might be wanted.
In 1827, before railroads and electric telegraphs were in
vogue, in forty-eight hours a squadron manned in an efficient
manner sailed for Lisbon, and Mr. Canning boasted of the
circumstance in that House. If such a thing could be done
in those days he should be sorry to think that the navy of
this country had so completely lost the energy for which
they were distinguished as not to be able to repeat it at this
day with all the appliances they now had.—(Hear, hear.)
But he (Admiral Berkeley) was not at all satisfied that we
had men enough for the navy. He had said it over and
over again, and he repeated it now, that we ought not to be
content with less than one-third of the men in peace that we
required hi time of war. With regard to the efficiency of
the navy, he maintained that it was as efficient as the means
placed at the disposal of the Admiralty would allow it to
be.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. F. MAULE agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman
who had introduced the measure that it was the duty of
citizens to contribute to the internal defence of the country.
He also agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman that the pre-
sent
was a fitting time, inasmuch as there were no parti-
cular
threatenings of danger, calmly to consider the manner
in which such a duty should be discharged. The late Go-
vernment, only about a month ago, proposed to introduce a
specific measure for that purpose. He would not attempt
to disguise his opinion that, in these times, any militia
established by the ballot, would be most unpopular. The
object he had had in view was to make the duty as little bur-
densome and as little expensive as possible to those called
on to serve. It was true that the late Government had pro-
posed that a certain number should be chosen by ballot, but
they gave an opportunity to volunteers to serve if they
chose. They proposed that the number chosen should be
drilled and trained in their own locality, and that they
should not be liable to removal from their own localities
except in case of actual or threatened invasion, and only
for the period mentioned in the Bill. That seemed to him to
be the extent to which they were entitled to call on the
people for a local defence. Any further defence he thought
would be better effected by an addition to the regular army.
As to expense, the militia, once embodied and efficient,
would be as costly as any other force. The present Bill,
however, proposed to go a great deal further than
the measure which he wished to introduce. He
should not oppose the introduction of the present
measure, but he thought it clearly intended the
revival of the regular militia. It extended only to
England, and he was glad of that ; it implied that the
party called on to serve was not necessarily to be drilled
in his own neighbourhood, but might be sent at any time
during the five years' service to be drilled at a distance,
either on actual or threatened invasion, or insurrection or
tumult. The persons serving would be liable to be re-
moved by order in Council from their own localities, and
be sent to serve either in Scotland or Ireland. That was a
far more burthensome service than that which he had pro-
posed in the Bill be had sought to introduce. The Right
Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of War stated that it was
meant to get rid of the unpopularity of the ballot, and that
to do so the system of volunteers would first be tried. His
own impression was, that if there was a regular militia, few
volunteers would be found. He admitted that one volunteer
was worth many pressed men. A bounty was to be offered
of 31. or 41., and the Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that
it would be paid either all at once or by small monthly pay-
ments, subject to the regulations of the Secretary at War.
He did not understand what regulations could be established
if the money was paid on service being taken. If it were
paid all at once, they might rest assured that few such
bounty-men would niake their appearance at the second
training.—(A laugh.) He shoifid say that he did not
believe they would find any man willing to take upon him-
self the liability of being removed from his own district for a
paltry payment of half-a-crown a month, or one penny per
day. He was persuaded that, under the proposed system,
they should come at last to the ballot,
:because they could
not get a sufficient number of volunteers. A length of time
must elapse before the machinery for the ballot could be got
up; and he wished to know whether the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had included in his estimate the expense of that
machinery ?
Mr. WALPOLE was understood to say that that expense
would fall on the district.

Mr. F. MAULE continued—Then there was to be a county
rate for that purpose, and a new charge was to be thrown on
the country gentlemen.— (Hear, hear.) Now, it certainly
seemed somewhat strange that a Ministry which professed
an earnest desire to alleviate the burdens of the country
gentlemen should thus propose to add to those burdens.
But, after all, he would answer for it that the new force
could not be brought into the field in less than ten months.
The object or the late Government had been to raise a force
which could be brought together in ten weeks, and to have
that force as well drilled as any that could be raised under
the measure then under the consideration of the House. If
they were to have recourse to the old and regular militia,
he warned them that in time of peace their plan would
utterly fail. He warned them that until they drew their
militia into barracks they would find it utterly impossible
to maintain them in anything like the shape they contem-
plated, as it would be to uphold the efficiency of a regiment
which, after having been kept together for ten weeks,
should be allowed to disperse for the remainder of the year.
If they were to have a militia force at all, it ought to be a
very large force. They ought to have at least 150,000 of
their youth, who would leave no wives or children behind
them, and they ought to allow the members of the force to
pass out of it long before the age of 30. They ought to
take young men at 20, and they ought not to require them
to serve after they had attained the age of 23. Those were
the main provisions of the measure proposed by the late
Government; and the adoption of that measure would, he
felt persuaded, cause the burden of defending the country to
fall as lightly as possible on its citizens. But the present
proposal would, he believed, be very unpopular ,• and although
he would not oppose the introduction of the Bill, he could
not pledge himself to vote for it on a future occasion if its
principle were the exact adoption of the old system of a
regular militia.—.(Hear.)

Mr. HOBHOUSE said, until the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Fox Maule) had advanced the very powerful argu-
ments he had addressed to the House, he (Dr, Hobhouse) was
inclined to think that all the authority was on the Opposi-
tion side of the House, and all the argument on the other.
He hoped he should be the last man to vote for our shores
being left exposed to invasion ; but there was one thing he
must claim for a measure of that kind, and that was that at
least the precaution to be taken should bear some propor-
tion to the danger.—(Hear, hear.) It was not so in the pre-
sent case. They had danger which was infinitesimally
small provided for by a security which was proportionably
large.—(Hear, hear.) That was the reason why, if Hon.
Gentlemen on the Opposition side of the House would support
him, he would take a division even at this stage of the Bill.
He was convinced the danger had been greatly magnified.
While all foreign powers were at peace with us, he thought
there was no reason for a Bill which put the country to so
much expense, and called men from the plough and the
loom to become soldiers; and if the House would listen to
reason, and not to its prejudices, he believed they would
utterly reject such a Bill. He beseeched Honourable
Gentlemen, before they gave their votes, to consider the re-
lation between France and England. He was quite sure
the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton would not say
that the danger of war was greater at the present moment
in France, under the regime of Louis Napoleon than it was
under the
dynasty of Louis ;Philippe. The house would
remember the Syrian campaign, and that when the time
the French might have struck the blow, she
came when
withdrew rom danger. He did not say that France in so
withdrawing was actuated by pusillanimity.
t r arbe believed she was actuated by prudence and by a
On the con-
trary, to maintain her commercial interests, and prevent
her subjects being involved in the calamities of
war. Again,
in the Pritchard affair we had the same me-
nace and the same language of remonstrance addressed to
us • but when the time for action came, France receded,
and peace was
most happily maintained between that
country and this. Again, in the time of the French Republic
it would be in the recollection of the Hose with what accia.