The Sun.
London, England, 1864-09-03 00:00:00

BERLIN.

" Nov. 3, 1863.

" Sir,—An observation was addressed to me yes-
terday by Sir Augustus Paget, in reference to my
despatch to you (No. 25), which, as it appears, was
suggested to him by M. de Balan, in whose presence
Sir Augustus had read the despatch. The remark
was upon the following subject :
" Yon will observe that when I speak in that
despatch of the complete and unlimited budget which
would eventually be submitted to the deliberative
vote of the Estates, I express my idea by availir.g
myself of these terms—the budget of the ensu:,ng
year. I remember that in taking cognisance of this
document—which he did the day following its de-
parture, manifesting much satisfaction, and his
entire approval—the Minister raised no objection
to the manner in which I had understood Herr von
Bismarck's demand with reference to the time when
the enlarged financial competence should come into
operation. Now, after his conversation with M. de
Belau, he foresaw a difficulty relating to the current
year, and asked me whether the Government did
not intend to apply the new principle to the present
year.
" My reply was that we feared the misunder-
standings which could not fail to result from such a
promise. For it was evident the Holstein Estates
could not meet until after the imminent danger of
an execution should be removed, and that negotia-
tions with the Estates upon the new budget could
at soonest take place in the first month of the en-
suing year. This term would suffice for next year's
budget; but the wish to submit to the Estates to-
wards the end of the year a budget for that same
year would appear rather too much like mystifica-
tion, as there would be no means of checking outlay
already made. The vote of the Estates would con.
sequently be of no possible effect.

"I added that I did not conceive interest could
attach to a proceeding which all the world must
know could be nothing bat a mere form. For, apart
from the misunderstandings which this step would
certainly not fail to call forth, the principle would
be sufficiently established by the appreciation of it
we were ready to make. Further, sir, as you are
a ware, the budget for the current year has already
bt. en once laid before the Estates without their
having thought proper to discuss and vote upon it.
"Sir Augustus Paget entirely appreciated these
observations of mine, and told me he would write
in this sense to his Government and to Sir Andrew
Buchanan.—l have the honour, &c., " QUAADE.''

DESPATCH FROM THE DANISH AMBASSADOR TO

BERLIN.

" Nov. 3, 1863.

" M. le Ministre,—The despatch, No. 25, your
eAcellency has been good enough to address to me,
ut. der date of the 31st inst., arrived yesterday even■
ing, and I have communicated it to-day to the
Minister-President.

" I have already informed your excellency by te.
legraph that, as to principle, M. de Bismarck in
general agrees with the King's Government. That
is to say, the Minister admits the condition relative
to the national debt, but he did not abandon his
objections with regard to the other reserves con-
tained in the despatch until after I had
pointed out to him that a distinction was
to be drawn between the above-mentioned
condition and that which the King's Govern.
meat had reserved to itself with regard to
the part of the normal budget based upon the re•
quirements of Government and of interior adminis-
tration. As to the national debt, the King's
Government was responsible to the creditors of the
State, and it:could only withdraw itself from a por-
tion of that responsibility upon condition of such
portion being assumed by another ; but as to the
reserve relating to the civil list, to outlay in favour
of the confederation, and to expenses necessitated by
the interior administration of the country, it was
evident that the King's Government dii not con-
template, in granting the Estates the right of voting
the items of the budget bearing thereupon, prevent.
ing them from making these different items the ob-
ject of their deliberation and resolutions. I added
that I, for my part, had only understood by the in-
troductions of the reserves in question that the
King's Government desired to guard expressly
against the eventuality of a refusal of supplies
(" Stenerverweigerung ') upon the part of the
Estates.

"The impression made upon me by the interview
I have had with M. de Bismarck confirms me in the
opinion I have already made known to your excel-
lency, i.e., that the abandonment by the King's
Government of the Holstein normal budget in favour
of the vote of the Estates would deprive the Diet of
every ground for carrying out the execution, and
that the condition relating to Holstein's portion of
the national debt would be accepted by the Prussian
Government.

"But the great difficulty which still remains to
be solved is that of the form for giving effect to the
eventual intentions of the King's Government.
" Until to-day Sir A. Buchanan and I, with per-
haps M. de Bismarck, have thought it would be
possible, analogous to the precedent furnished in
1861 by the international negotiation, to obtain by
way of the united committee the decree or Federal
demand upon which the King's Government makes
the execution of its decision depend ; but when I
presented myself to day to the Minister of Foreign
Affairs, he had just received from Frankfort pre-
liminary notice that M. de Sydow had encountered
sentiments in the committee which caused him to
foresee that the majority of his colleagues would
decline to bring in a serviceable form before the
Diet a communication made by the Prussian Go-
vernment as to the intentions of that of the King.

" The method of proceeding previously concerted
between M. de Bismark and the English Ambas-
sador would, therefore, probably be ineffectual;
and under the circumstances, M. de Bismarck is
the less inclined to have recourse to that method,
as it does not appear to him desirable that Denmark
and Prussia should find themselves together in a
minority in opposition to the other members of the
Diet at the present conjuncture.
" I asked M. de Bismark if he could not point
out to me some other form which I could propose
to the King's Government, but he replied the only
farm in his opinion now available waa that the ini-
tiative should be taken by the Cabinet of Copen-
hagen, either by a decree to be issued in Holstein
—and under this head he did not see why prefe-
rence should not be given to the decree which, more
than any other,
would deprive the Diet of every
motive for execution, i e., the withdrawal of the
patent of 3oth March—or by a declaration to be
made at Frankfort. I asked the Minister, further,
if it would not suffice that I should be authorised to
convey the eventual intention of the King's Go-
vernment officially to hie knowledge, especially re.
questing him to communicate that intention to the
Diet. But he told me this was impossible.
Towards the Diet the Prussian Government
was in the present question exactly in the
same position as the King's Government, and
as for intervention with the united committee
without goodwill, upon the part of its members,
the organisation and routine of the Diet offered ab-
solutely no means of action to the Prussian Govern-
ment.

"M. de Bismarck above all strongly recom-
mended the withdrawal of the patent of March 30;
and i❑ reply to the objections 1 brought forward,
having regard to the dignity of the King's Govern-
ment, to considerations of internal policy, and even
with the contents of the document in question, the
Minister pointed out that in the main there was no
difference between what he proposed and what the
Copenhagen Cabinet was disposed to do. We were
willing to admit the Federal competence for Hol-
stein, casting aside material objections by which
we had hitherto allowed ourselves to be guided, and
why not make the admission in the form pointed
out by the Diet itself ? Time pressed, The Diet

could not delay in taking its resolution. What this

resolution should be the Federal decree left only two
alternatives—accoptanee or non-acceptance of the
Danish declaration. In the latter case the King's
Government would probably have a last delay, but

in the meani ime the execution troops would be on
the march, and the point of military honour would
be joined t o the other considerations which rendered
it day by day more difficult for Germany to recede.
" In r addition to the two forms cited above as
capable , according to M. de Bismarck, of being
adopte 3 by the King's Government, the Minister
also p toposed a third, in stating that perhaps the
Brits nnic Government would be willing to address
itsel Ito the Diet, communicating to that body the
dis position of the King's Government ; but he im-
Aintely aferwards himself started the objection
treat, if this overture of the Britannic Government
related, as was reasonable to suppose it would, ex-
exclusively to the Federal question, the Diet would
be unable to receive it.

"I cannot conceal from your excellency that, par-
taking of de Bismarck's views of the necessity of
acting with promptness, I also think that there is
no occasion for the King's Government to place
form above reality, especially in its relations with
a political assembly organised as is the Federal
Diet. After the distinction laid down by M. de
Bismarck, in full conformity with the views of the
King's Government, between the Federal part and
the international part of the Dano-German ques-
tioa—a distinction which the English Cabinet has
equally adopted, and will well understand how to
carry through at Frankfort—it appears to me that

- - .
;his question now presents itself in an entirely dif.

ferent point of view to formerly, and offers to the
Government facilities it did not possess some weeks
ago.

" Sir A. Buchanan has told me Lord Russell had
supposed the vote upon the normal budget would
be already granted to the Estates by the declaration
of October 29, and at the same time he suggested to
me the idea of submitting to your excellency's exa-
mination whether it would not be possible for the
King's Government itself to make the declaration
to the Diet, taking the above supposition of the
English Minister as a point of departure.

"In the course of conversation M. de Bismarck
several times alluded to the necessity of Prussia to
take all possible care not to be able to be accused of
private negotiations with Denmark in opposition to
her allies, and this is the reason, I have no doubt,
for much of the reserve maintained by the Minister.
I am sure, however, that he would most willingly
undertake to realise the intentions of the King's
Government if he only saw how to do so without
exposing himself to a check.
"Requesting your excellency to consider this re-
port as perfectly confidential, I have the honour, &c.
(Signed) is QUAADE."

DESPATCH FROM THE DANISH AMBASSADOR IN

BERLIN.

" Nov. 3, 1863.

(Private and confidential.)

" Your Excellency,—ln connection with what I
have stated in my despatch of to•day's date as to
the various forms the King's Government, in Herr
von Bismark's opinion, might select to bring into
operation its eventual intention with regard to the
Holstein normal budget, I permit myself to submit
to your excellency a further proposition of the above.
named Minister.

" After he had stated his other proposals, Herr
von Bismark remarked that he thought he knew
another way which the King's Government could
noose. ' You are aware,' he said, 'that I have
always been of opinion that everything of a Fede•
ral character must first be detached from the entire
question in dispute. Its contents should be reduced
to the smallest possible proportions, by taking from
it, and connecting with the international portion,
everything which could be reckoned to belong to
the latter; as, for instance, matters referring to the
position of Holstein in the monarchy, and to the
other portions of the country. Nothing would
then remain but what the Danish Government could
well leave to the Diet, and, provided this took place,
execution would be impossible as objectless. In
connection herewith the Danish Government could
never—referring to the resolution of the Diet, in
which that body, when stating its causes of com-
plaint against the Danish Government, has included
several non-Federal objects—issue an act expressing
what portions of the question in dispute, so far as
these are hitherto laid down by the Diet, lie outside
the competence of the Confederation. The act
should state it was self-evident the demands of the
Diet could not be met with regard to these objects.
The Diet would then be compelled, if determined
to carry out its will, to adopt a different course to
that it had hitherto taken. With reference to that
part of the question in dispute which remained, the
act should observe willingness existed to give
the Diet everything that could be obtained
by an execution, so long as its demands were limited
to full legislative competence for the Estates.'

"It seems to me that although a formal reason
for a new declaration at Frankfort may not be easily
discoverable from the present stand-point of the
Federal question, the general political situation yet
offers a motive for an act like that suggested; and
it seems to me further that nothing would prevent
the act being attached to a reservation respecting
the share of Holstein in the national debt, which
latter is also an international matter.

" The chief reason for hesitation in adopting an
act of this character appears to me to consist in its
solemnity; and it is therefore my personal opinion,
provided I may be permitted to give it expression,
that it would be far better if the King's Government
could determine to depart from form and give in a
farther declaration at Frankfort.—l have the honor,
&c., (Signed) " QUAADE."

DESPATCH FROM THE DANISH AMBASSADOR IN

BERLIN.

"Nov. 5, 1863.
" M. le Ministre,—The English Ambassador has
received a communication from Sir A Paget upon the
question treated in despatch N 0.27, and M. de Thile
mentioned the same point to him yesterday, but
neither the Under. Secretary of State, whom I also
saw yesterday, nor M. de Bismarck have made any
observation to me upon the subject. Sir A. Bu.
chanan, to whom M. de Bismarck has not spoken
any more upon the point in question, told M. de
Thile that he thought it better not to touch upon
the past. The Under• Secretary of State did not
insist, and I think with Sir Andrew that there is
no room for ns to engage in any discussion in this
respeet.

" I have just received information from Copen•
hagen which suggests to me some observations
I venture to submit to your excellency. I
understand from this source that your excel-
lency still entertains the idea of awaiting a Fede.
ral decree to realise the intentions mentioned in
despatch No. 25, and Sir A. Buchanan tells me that
according to his information, your exeellency has
spoken of eventually communicating the said inten-
tions through the united committees. As I under-
stand the Federal act, and according to what has
been told me here in the most authentic and positive
manner of the routine of the Diet, this assembly
has bat one resolution to take in the phase at which
the Holstein affair has now arrived. It can only
pronounce for one or the other of two alternatives,
►. e., tertiurn non datur. Consequently as soon as
the decree now in question shall have been pro-
nounced, the opportune moment for making a sup-
plementary declaration to the Diet shall have passed.
The declaration can be made, it is true, at the final
summons of the States carrying out the execution ;
bat while waiting, many things may have changed,
and the opportunity would probably not be the
same.

" Just as I thus consider that it would be very
desirable for the King's Government to decide upon
setting aside form, and making the final declaration
to the Diet without delay, although no formal mo-
tive offers itself for this step at the present moment
—and so long as the said Assembly has not expressed
itself upon the declaration of October 29—so I will
not conceal from your excellency that I, for my
part, do not see the slightest probability that the
Government could succeed in bringing its eventual
intentions to the knowledge of the Diet by means
of the united committees, as neither the King's Go-
vernment nor the King's Minister are in official or
dir3ct relations with the said committees. The lat-
ter being thus not strictly compelled to give effect
meat,
u d h
to an overture on the part of the King's Govern.
their members being no-
it is to be foreseen that
sal ay
lesst well majority
disposed, o
a step taken towards these committees would not
officially come to the knowledge of the Diet,—l
have the honour, scc.,
(Signed) " QUAADE."