The Sun.
London, England, 1864-07-02 00:00:00

JAPAN.

Ean GREY then rose to move the resolutions relative
to this subject, which have already appeared in The Sun.
The noble earl said he thought the time had arrived when
the relations of the country with Japan should be taken
earnestly into consideration, and he had ventured to bring
forward the said resolutions. They did not imply cen-
sure on the Government, not because he approved of
their policy—far otherwise. What was already done could
not be undone, but he felt that if he could induce their lord-
ships to come to an expression of their opinion upon the
matter by agreeing to his resolutions it would in a great
measure tend to diminish the dangers that might arise.
He had advisedly abstained from stating in his resolutions
the details of the modifications which he desired, because he
did not think it was for Parliament but for the Government
to lay down the details of our policy. The present seemed
to him a very favourable time for negotiations, because after
the recent destruction of Kagosima it was impossible the
Japanese should misconstrue our motives. It is desirable
for our own sake that we should enter on suchnegotiations
because although he did not think that we were so defence.
less as the Foreign Secretary seemed to think the other
night—(hear, hear)—it was still not desirable for us at the
present time to engage in warlike operations at a distance.
The first modification which ought to be made in the existing
treaty was the abolition of the clause which exempted Bri •
tish subjects in Japan from the jurisdiction of the Japanese
law. But even if the principle of extra territoriality as ap-
plied to our subjects was retained at all, its application
should be confined within the narrow space required for
carrying on our trade. And within those limits means far
more effectual than existed at present should be provided for
the punishment of Englishmen who were guilty of outrages
against the Japanese. It was desirable to reduce and sim-
plify as much as possible the conditions of our treaty with
Japan, because there would then be a far greater chance
than at present that it would be observed. After adverting
to the amount of our naval force in the Chinese and Ja-
panese waters, the noble earl dwelt upon the expediency of
reducing it materially, both on account of the expense which
it entailed upon us, and on account of its tendency to keep
up a state of irritation between ourselves and the people of
those countries. It was in vain to expect that a profitable
commerce could be carried en, except between nations who
entertained mutual goodwill for each other; and that could
never exist between England and Japan so long as the pre-
sent treaty was maintained. The noble earl concluded by
moving the adoption of an address to her Majesty.
Earl RUSSELL complained that the noble earl had
thrown very little light upon the means which he thought
ought to be adopted in order to improve our intercourse
with Japan. The noble earl aimed at subverting our whole
policy, in regard not only to Japan and China, but to all
Eastern nations. It was not true that our treaty with Japan
was extorted by intimidation on the part of Lord Elgin.
That noble lord had only a frigate and two gunboats with
him at the time, a force hardly sufficient for any such pur-
pose. Besides, other nations had made such treaties with
Japan before; and others, again, had done so since, And
what had been the fruits of that treaty ? That in the course
of a few years a foreign commerce to the extent of seven
minims annually had sprung up with Japan. Did his noble
friend desire to stop that ? Certainly not, for he said he de-
sired to see our commerce extended, but this could not be
done if we abandoned the treaty under which our present
commerce had sprung up. Then the noble lord objected to
the extra-territoriality clause under which British subjects
resident in Japan were placed under British and not Japa-
nese law. But such a clause was found in all our treaties
with Oriental nations. And it was necessary that we should
have a clause. For the laws of Japan were of a sanguinary
character; and what, he would ask, would be said in Eng-
land if we heard of English merchants being tortured or
disembowelled, or their relatives put to death by Cue Japa-
nese ? He thought that that would be far more likely to
lead to war than the present system. He deeply regretted
that the behaviour of Englishmen in Japan, as in China
and in India, was very often of a very unsatisfactory cha-
racter. He had received only that morning a letter from Sir
F. Bruce, in which he complained of the insolence, the dis-
regard of native feeling, the want of courtesy, displayed by
Englishmen towards Chinese. These faults, and the disputes
and collisions to which they gave rise, could not be cured or
avoided by any alterations in our treaties. All that could be
done was to let Englishmen who offended know that they
would not be supported in improper and overbearing conduct
towards the natives ; and he trusted in tima:this eeold lead
to an improvement in their bearing. England and English
policy was not responsible for the dissensions which pre•
veiled in China between the Tyccon, the Mikado, and the
Daimios. They arose from the desire of each of these indi 1
viduals or classes to obtain ascendancy over the others. The
noble earl had severely blamed the conduct of Government
in exacting reparation for the murder of Mr Richardson ;
but he (Earl Russell) did not see tne matter in that light.
Mr Richardson at the time of his murder was on a road
where by treaty he had a perfect right to be. The Govern-
ment thought that requited reparation; and as it was re-
fused, we took two ve.,sels belonging to him. Thereupon
his batteries opined fire; and he apprehended that when
that w-3 done our fleet had no alternative but to return it.
They could not run away. And it had since turned cut
that very few persons except the soldiers in the batteries
were killed ; while the town of Kagosima had been rebuilt,
and was now handsomer than ever, The result of the ac, ion
at Kagosima had been to impress upon the mind of Prince
Satsume's followers a salutary conviction of oar strength ;
and the Prince himself had since displayed towards us the
mos friendly feeling He believed, for his own part, that
a serious war was much more likely to arise from our suffer»
ing murders and outrages committed against Englishmen to
pass with impunity, than from promptly and fir mly exacting
reparation when it was due to us. His noble friend had
dwelt upon the mechanical ingenuity of the Japanese, and
he hoped their tendency to profit by European inventions
would lead to friendly intercourse between us. He (Earl
Russell) did not, however, think that a proposition on our
part to alter the existing treaties would have that effect. So
far from conciliating the Japanese, it would lead them to
think we were weak and were afraid of them, And it was cer-
tain that if such an impression were entertained peace would
not be preserved. They certainly had not heard from the
noble earl (Earl Grey) of any modifications in those trea-
ties which could be advantageously effected. He was afraid
that for some time to come it would be necessary to keep a
considerable naval force in the Japanese waters. It was quite
possible that one of the Japanese parties would try to drive
foreigners out of the country. But lie did not think that
we ought to suffer the stipulations of our treaty to be thus
overridden, and a stop to be thu4 put to an intercourse ad-
vantageous both to Japan and to ourselves. All that we
could do was not to alter area modify our treaties ; but to go
on steadily, quietly, and iirmly, standing upon our rights,
and improving our friendly relations as far as possible. He
was quite certain that no good would be done by departing
from the principles which had hitherto governed oar deal-
ings with Eastern nations. (Hear, hear.)

The Bishop of OXFORD had listened with great disap-
pointment to Earl Russell's speech. It did not remove any
of the apprehensions which had been excited in his mind
by Earl Grey's address. There could be no doubt that the
treaty of 1858 was made by the Japanese under a fear of
our power. This.was distinctly stated by Sir Rutherford
Alcock, who also said that there was no party whatever in
Japan, which Was favourable to foreign commerce, or to
permitting feereigners to enter the country. Nay, more;
according eo the same eminent authority, the distaste for
foreigners had deepen'ed since the ports had been opened.
It na4.ght be true that Prince Satsuma had behaved towards
us. in a more friendly manner since tha destruction of Bego-
t-I/ha ; but the fact was, that he and the other Daimioswere
preparing armaments and maturing projects for vengeance.
And go in the meantime both he and they naturally refrained
front offending us. The most enlightened amongst the Ja-
panese urged upon us that even if our measures were right,
we were attempting to go too fast, and to introduce changes
for which the Japanese were not prepared. He believed
that the effect of the policy we were at present pursuing
must, although we did not intend it, be to reduce Japan to
a state of ungoverned anarchy. He did not believe that,
apart from our interference, there was any such dissen-
sion amongst the M
---Utodo, the Tycoon, and the Daimios, as
was likely to interfere
with the good government and
prosperity of the country, What would become of our
trade if Japan by our
policy were reduced to anarchy ? He
felt with Earl Grey that, on the eternal principles, we had
no right, in the sight of God, to force on an independent
people by force of arms a commerce
which they refused.
He believed that if we disregarded justice
and violated right
retribution would be certain to overtake
I'
The Duke of SOMERSET was understwaood to say that
whether or not the treaty of 1858 was obtained by force,
WC could not go back to the state of things Which xt d
previously; nor did he think that it was dssirable totahetitnelms existed
to make a new treaty. If we proposed to do any
the kind, it would, he believed, almost inevitably lend to
anything of
o
war. The noble earl had asserted that the English under-
took to protect British subjects in every part of Japan, but
such was not the fact, as the protection only extended to
Yokohama and other places. It was also a mistake to
suppose that the Daimios had an objection to trade. The
truth was, that they were not averse to trade, but they
thought they ought to get some of the profits of it. Now,
as the old treaty could not be enforced, what would be the
use of negotiating another ? We had already secured
certain rights in Japan, which the Japanese themselves
admitted. So far from the burning of their towns having
had an evil effect, it had produced the best results, Kago-
sima was rebuilt in a few days. He had heard on trust-
worthy authority, that an establishment for the education
of young ladies which was burnt down on the Monday was
built up again on the following Friday. (A laugh.) It
was very difficult for us to deal with the Japanese, as we
were almost entirely ignorant of their habits and preju-
dices. He thought our best course would be to adhere to

the treaty, and at the same time to practice moderation
towards the people.
The Earl of CARNARVON observed that until the
last two years the traders with Japan were wealthy and
responsible persons, but now they were for the most part
people of small means, who carried on their trade in an
illegal manner, in total defiance of all treaty obligations.
We ought to interfere, in order to impose upon such persons
proper checks and restraints. He was sorry to say it was
not only the foreign traders who were open to blame, for
the papers showed that the consuls themselves, who were
placed there for judicial purposes, too often acted more like
politicians than judges. This important question of Japan
ought not to be treated as a party matter. He agreed sub-
stantially with what had fallen from his noble friend, and
he assented to the spirit of all the resolutions except the
last, in which he was unable entirely to concur.
Earl GREY having briefly replied,
Their lordships divided. The numbers were—
Contents
Non-contents
Majority
COUNTY CONSTABULARY SUPERANNUATION
BILL.

The report of the Commons' amendments to this bill was
agreed to,
PUBLIC AND REFRESHMENT HOUSES (METRO-
POLIS) BILL.
This bill was read a second time,
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Last Evening.
The SPEAKRa took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Independent Gas Company and the Newquay and
Cornwall Junction Railway Bills (Lords) were read a third
time and passed.
PRISONERS IN THE WEST RIDING OF

YORKSHIRE,

In reply to Col. SMYTII,

Sir G. GREY said that he believed that prisoners corn-
mitted for trial in the North- W est Riding were sent to
York Castle, but they would new be sent to Leeds,
and without any alteration in the charge for their main.
tenance.