The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-08 00:00:00

tuents. He appealed from Philip in Buckinghamshire to
Philip in that House.—(A laugh.) But he passed on to
ask, where were these men to be found for the militia?
It appeared to him that the dzatnd for 80,000 would in
two years most dangerously
e
the h
wrecruitingen whence
these
whoth e
army, and greatly narrow the surface
constituted our regular forces —our army, navy, and marines
—were to be derived. These militiamen wereo to be quartered
Would in provincial towns, in public-houses.ldnottheiiirleu2rs: a day, subject to the expenses they would necessarily
be lower wages practically than those given to a Dorsetshire
out of curiosity,
them
labourer? They would come once, perhaps
second
and
Why, but it would be found very difficult to catch
time. And they were to be drilled for hree
weeks, a
then suffered to roam about the country.
before they
could be called together again, they would have travelled
from one end of the country to the other—perhaps out of
the country. They might have got good, permanent,
and
profitable employment at Liverpool or Manchester, or
somed
where miles away. Would it not be cruel to drag them back
from that to their muster-roll for three weeks, so throwing
them out of work and losing them their engagements? And
what would this three weeks do for them? Would it make
them soldiers? Never; never so long as the Government
gave them only the discipline and only the drill which by
their Bill they were prepared to do. The Chancellor of the
Exchequer himself, taking the common-sense view of the
question, had said on the evening.of the 6th of May that it
would be madness to suppose these men capable of contend-
ing successfully with the armed legions of Algiers, of the
Caucasus. But was it not precisely against such disciplined
troops that they would have to contend ?—(Hear. ) Then
what was the use of the measure? He had shown that these
troops;—these militiamen, he would not call them troops--
would be with difficulty collected, and when collected would
be fit for nothing—totally unfit, as had been confessed, to
resist a disciplined foreign invasion. These were the tests
to which it ought to be applied. But there was still the
argument that the militia, though not efficient for itself, was
so indirectly, inasmuch as it increased the efficiency of the
regular army. The whole of the regular army we could
make available to defend our shores was 25,000, and it was
proposed to take 80,000 militiamen to make them more effi-
cient. He asked was it not monstrous for them to put this
country to the expense, the harassment, and the disorgani-
sation of doing thus, for the army what our present policemen
and pensioners, if organised, could do quitp as well? He
asked, why should they not reject the measure? The neces-
sary consequence of their doing so would be a most desirable
one—that they should have time for calmer reflection. He
trusted, therefore, that Honourable Gentlemen would con.
cider this, and would not fall into the silly delusion that it
was better to do something, anything, no matter what, than
not to legislate at all and at once upon the matter. It was
against such an error that he wished most especially to
guard them when he said that in their haste they might do
such wrong as would prevent them from doing right
hereafter. He asked them to take time for consideration.
Out of the mists of this discussion had already loomed the
plain fact that we possessed 65,000 regular troops within
these three kingdoms. That stood out clear from their dis-
cussion, and no man could deny it. Then they had 40,000
in dockyard and pensioner battalions; 40,000 yeomanry and
constabulary. They had a navy which had never yet been
baffled or discomfited; they had about 1,300 steam-ships
capable of bearing guns. He asked, therefore for some pause.
He thought the public might sleep in peace - (Hear)—and
this question be postponed for another year, and for more
ample investigation. At all events it ought not to be dis-
cussed on the eve of a dissolution, and under the auspices of
a provisional Government. The question, they must all feel,
had been sufficiently before the public to be certain to be
taken up in the next Parliament. Was it not reasonable to
suppose that it would be much better settled then than at
present? The subject of our steam navy, and the reserved
torces of our army and navy, bore most materially on this
question. On those questions a Committee was to be
moved for by his Hon. and Gallant Friend the Member for
Westminster, who was most anxious for an inquiry into the
condition of our steam 'navy and marine, and to know how
far the latter were applicable, in case of need, for purposes
of war, Re again asked the House to deal deliberately
and not hastily with this question; to refer it from a pro-
visional Government to an established one, and from a dying
Parliament to a living one. He concluded by moving that
the Bill be read that day six months.
Mr. MACKINNON seconded the amendment. In the
year 1642 this very question was before the House of Com-
mons, and on that occasion the measure was strongly opposed
by Hyde, afterwards Lord Clarendon—a man of high autho-
rity upon it. With regard to the expediency of this force,
he was not aware if any benefit had arisen from calling out
the militia. Was it, therefore, wise in the Government of
this country to decide upon calling out a militia force of
eighty thousand men, the more especially as offers had been
made by men who had a stake in the country to enrol them-
selves as volunteers? If they looked back to the two last
revolutions in France, they would find that they had been
effected principally by men who had been accustomed to the
use of arms. He did not mean to say that they had any
reason to be apprehensive of such a result in this country
from the embodiment of a militia; but the fact he had alluded
to could not escape observation. If they really apprehended
any danger of an invasion, he would ask them why they
should not, in preference, increase their army and navy?
Suppose a force of forty thousand men invaded their coasts,
the invading force would be over half the country before a
militia could be called together. Under all the circumstances,
he saw no use in their proceeding with this hasty measure,
and he felt that it would be more in accordance with the feel-
ings of the country, that the further consideration of this Bill
should he postponed till that day three months.
Lord H. VANE would vote for the third reading, and
eventually for the motion of the Hon. Member for Lam-
beth, to omit the compulsory clauses. He agreed with the
mover and seconder of the amendment that this measure
had evoked a considerable spirit of hostility throughout the
country, but that was not a sufficient reason for negativing
it, if that House thought it necessary for the honour and
safety of the country. Looking at the fact that the pre-
ceding Government were pledged to some measure of the
kind, and that the present Government had introduced i

on their executive responsibility, he could not feel justified
in wkolly opposing the Bill, but at the same time must ex-
press his regret that the Government insisted on the ballot-
.

ling clause, which it would be his duty to oppose.
Mr. MACGREGOR said that public opinion out of doors
was entirely against the Bill, and therefore he wondered at
the hardihood of the Government in going to the country on
such a measure. In London the people had no apprehen-
sion when the funds were beyond par, and when enormous
sums of money were leaving every day for investment in
the public works of France. He believed that there never
was a period in the history of the latter country when they
were so desirous of maintaining amicable relations with us,
and he knew that the President felt that nothing could be so
dangerous to the stability of his own power as any rupture
with England. As to the other three great Powers Russia,
Austria, and Prussia—their policy, especially since the death
of Prince Schwarzenberg, was one of peace, and of com-
pact defence, not against the French President, but against
the eventualities of another revolution. In such a state of
things, he thought that a more impolitic Bill had never
been introduced into that House.--(llear, hear.) If in-
creased' force* were necessary; he would willingly consent
.to the addition of 5,000 men• to our marine force, and that
would be a much better defence than a body of men who
would only be bad soldiers and worse citizens. With
these views he felt bound to oppose the further progress of
the Bill.

Mr. HEADL AM intended to vote against the third read-
ing, and hoped that the House would concur with him in
rejecting the measure. At the same time he was willing to
admit that the Government had some excuse in the public
clamour, and in the act of their predecessors, and that in
their difficulty they had produced a measure as little objec..
tionable as possible, but it was only an argument against
any measure of the description, that nothing better could
be produced. His objection to the voluntary portion of
this Bill was that it proposed to raise a regular force on
the least economical principle. lie was willing to admit
that there was some argument fur increased defence in the
improvement of modern science and the increased facilities
of transit. He did not believe that there was any hostile
feeling towards us 'on the part of France; and if there were,
this Bill was so inefficient that it. was a mere waste of
money. For these reasons he should give his vote against
the measure.

Mr. E WART said it was a paramount and insurmount-
able objection to a Ministerial measure that it was ineffi-
cient; and this was so. Let the necessity for additional
defence be proved, and ho would consent to an increase of
the regular army and of the artillery. He believed that,
compared with past wars, future wars—from which Heaven
defend us—would be infinitely more destructive. He con-

tended that a militia force was not suited to the times we
iced in. Adam Smith described it as a most barbarous

force; arid if the force was inapplicable to this country in
his time, it was much more so now. To constitute the best
military force, the principle of division of 1 thour must be

_ .
acted Upon, which was in favour of a standing army. He
was also opposed to this Bill, because it had two other Acts
_ _

...
engrafted uj.on it, that of George 111. and the Mutiny Act,
which would authorise flogging in the militia. He found
that enlightened foreigners were disapproving of a militia
force in Prussia and Austria, and they said that it would be
found inapplicable here; but taking the opinion of military
men in our own country, they were all in favour of an aug-
mentation of the regular army. Considering that this Bill
would give neither a good nor an efficient force, he should

vote against it.
Sir H. VERNEY said the Bill would be useful as a
means of training the population to arms, which was
one of the most satisfactory measures of national defence
that could be adopted. He hoped the Secretary at War
Would make such regulations as would prevent the ad-
mission of persons of bad character into the force. He
trusted encouragement would be given to the rifle corps,
who would prove most valuable soldiers. It was desirable
that the army should be increased by some rifle regiments.
He thought the guns formerly mounted in the Martell°
towers ought to be replaced there, and the towers manned.
This might be done at a very trifling expense. The aug-
mentation in the French marines and navy was proportion-
ally much greater than in our own. It was said that ma-
rines were principally used for the protection of commerce,
but it should be remembered that France had very little
commerce to protect. There were means of defence avail-
able to this country in its mercantile marine force; each
vessel might be made to carry one or more swivel guns; an
this species of defence might also be applied to all the har-
bours on the coast. Supposing the opponents of the Bill to
be mistaken, and that the last and the present Government
were right in the apprehensions they entertained, it could
not be denied that this Bill would conduce to the safety of
the country. So long as we were assailable, it was the most
imperative duty of the Government to bring forward such
measures as they thought .necessary for the safety of the
country ; and to neglect to do so would expose them to na-
tional infamy. The Hon. Member for the West Riding had
said the question of national defences ought fo be submitted
to a Committee or Commission; and he hoped the Govern-
ment would not lose sight of that suggestion.
Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE said it appeared as if the Go-
vernment had abandoned to the Hon. Member for Bedford
the defence of this Bill, and the responsibility of passing it
into law.—(Hear, bear.) And he must add that if there
were no other reasons for the measure than those that had
been adduced by the Hon. Baronet, then the dislike with
which the country now regarded; the measure was not likely
to be lessened in tuture. He had never heard a more war-
like speech expressed in blander terms than that which was
jdst concluded by the Hon. Baronet. Not content with
voting for the third reading of this Bill, the Hon. Gentle-
man called upon the Ministers to put the Martello towers
in order—to produce the swivel guns that had been laid
up since the last war, and then they might laugh to
a French ineasion.—(llear, hear, and laughter.)
scorn
He had been obliged to refer to what was said by the
Hon. Member for Bedford for want of any other argu-
ments in favour of the measure ; and, whatever ec-
dons be might have to the principle of this Bill, he would
confess at once that he did not found those objections on the
views and principles of the Peace Society. Bat, at the
same time, he hoped he would never be found to under-
value the exertions or to impeach the motives of that truly
benevolent body of men. It was very easy to deride the
efforts and to laugh at the theories of those men; but he
would remind Honourable Gentlemen that they thought so
novel and enthusiastic the products of a distempered ima-
gination were promoted by some of the Wisest and greatest
men of ancient times; by no less a person than Plato, and
piing by the divine founder of our religion and coaling

down to later times, they found that sovereigns like Henry
IV. of France and our own Elizabeth had formed a plan of
general pacification on the same principles; and coming
down to a sell later period, the Spanish statesman Alberoni
declared that such a scheme was not unworthy of his consi-
deration. Far from deprecating the efforts or the motives of
men who not only preached but practised the principles of
general benevolence and good-a ill, he concurred with them
in opinion that, whoever reviewed the history of our past
continental wars would coma to be of opinion with a popu-
lar writer, that taxes had been raised net to carry on wars,
but that war had been raised to carry on taxes—that our
greatest glory was earned by an increase of taxation, and that
our most expensive luxury was a successful general.—
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) But at the same time he drew
a distinction between armies raised for the purpose of aggres-
sion, and armies for the purpose of defence; and he would
submit to those Gentlemen—if there were any such—who
doubted the lawfulness of defensive war, that in the Utopia
Of Sir Thomas More, though he depicted a society in all the
enjoyment of perennial happiness, detesting war, despising
glory, and prohibiting alike lawyers and soldiers—(Leugh-
ter)—neither allowing Martello towers nor briefs in Chan-
Fer Y—yet even he did not debar the natives of his happy
island from the use of arms, nor from defending themselves
when they were attacked. Now, he could not imagine that
anybody, either in that House or out of it, would be more
Utopian than the Utopians themselves.—(Great laughter.)
the present state of .
He must say, for himself, that he could not look upon
satisfaction, filled as it was •
with gigantic armies
and with reactionary
the Centinent of Europe with
follow the Honourable rulers at the head of these
armies. It might be vgh his medley of Majirtell
eryarwell, though he could hardly
poleon—(Laughter)—it mi ht°
Baronet the Member for Bedford
to'enee in
:.(ewers, rifles, and Louis Na-
Baronet to say that, he had gconfi very
He (fir. Osborne) did not wish well for the Hon.
Louis Napoleon.
trench upon the feelings of the in
soasetsfanything that would
bat he could not say that he shared in astidious Frenchman,
confidence. He thought it was natural
that
Hon. Baronet's
raised to power by the military order should t a man who was
with military prejudices. And after all, what
tt in accordance
Gentleman say I have confidence in Louis
Napoleon,
the Hue.
for all that double your army— increase your ripfloleon'but
man your Martello towers—get ready your swivel ge corps_
still I have great confidence in Louis Napoleon.—(Lantrh—b -
It was better to say at once they had no confidence ingLtz.)
Napoleon, and they had no right to have confidence in him.is
tie was surprised that no Honourable Gentleman had evs.
quoted in the House the revelation which was made by M.
Thiers in the Chamber of Deputies, which told heavily
against Louis Napoleon, and which would amply justify the
Government in seeing that the defences that they had—and
which he mainta,ned were amply sufficient—were put in a
most efficient state. On the 17th of January. 1851, M.
Thiers told the French Chamber that in an interview he bad
with Louis Napoleon, the President said that it was neces-
sary to occupy the public mind in France, and that to do
that it would be necessary to undertake some enterprise
abroad which would captivate the attention of the masses,
and attach them to the Government. He thought Govern-
ment must be blinded indeed if, after that, they did not take
every precaution to put the defences of the country in the
most efficient state consistent with the large sums of money
they voted for that purpose. But in granting that, he
thought that Ministers were bound to supply fuller and
greater information as to the state of the defences, and of
the condition of the army. Had any statement of that kind
been made to the House? They had from year to year
enormous estimates sobmitted, and yet no satisfactory account
was ever given of the manner in which the money was laid
out. He was prepared to say that the sums annually
voted were quite enough for national defence, without
either militia, Martello towers, or riflemen.—(Hear, hear.)
We might take a lesson from the way in which the French
estimates were prepared in 1848, from which it would appear
that In one sense one Englishman was still worth two
Frenchmen, for an English soldier was just double the cost
of a French soldier.—( Hear, and a laugh.) He had the
French estimates in his hand, and he would read one or two
extracts from them to show that our service was managed in
the most extravagant and reckless way, and that we should
do well if we took a leaf out of our next door neighbour's
book. The English army consisted of 113,287 men, and it
cost 9,337,000 L, or 82/. Bs. 4d. a soldier. The French army
in 1848 was composed of 838,653 men, and cost 12,138,0001.,
or 411. 12s. Bd. per man.—(Cheers.) But he would go fur-
ther. What was the number of generals in the English ser-
vice? We had no less than 117 generals for an army of
113,287 men, while the French army, which in 1848 was
treble, and was now quadruple the amount of our force, had
but eight marshals and 143 general officers. He would take
also the staff of the two armies, and compare the proportion-
ate expense incurred. In the English army the charge for
the effective service was 3,270,0001., or about 384 per cent.
upon a total expenditure of 9,337,000/., while the French
staff cost but 2,260,0J0/., which was a charge rather under
19 per cent. on an expenditure of 12,183,000/. When,
therefore, Honourable Gentlemen talked of the country not
being in a proper state of defence, he would advise them to
look A little into these French estimates, and the House
would bear in mind that in this comparison no account
whatever was taken of the dead weight. He found also that
the French soldiers, being clothed on a system of open con-
tracts, were clothed at 12s. a head less than our own soldiers,
though their uniforms were furnished in a country which
ought to be the cheapest country in the world for woollen
clothing.—(Hear, hear.) Another thing which he found was
this—that in the French army, trebling our own in amount,
military justice was administered at a cost of 8,0001., while
in the English army it cost 32,000/. There must be some-
thing wrong in all this. There must be some great waste
somewhere. The money which the House of Commons voted
annually for military purposes could not be laid out to
the best advantage, or else why was so great a difference
observable in the French estimates and our own? It was
true that we spent bat 22,000/. in powder, while the French
outlay in that article quadrupled that amount; and the
French soldiers were armed with the Minis= rifle, and equipped
with every improvement suggested by modern military science,
while the English soldier was only supplied with the miser-
able musket. He repeated that it was evident toat some-
thing wrong was going on, and that the House ought, be-
fore they agreed to the third reading of the Bill, to insist on
some better information being given on the subject of mili-
tary expenditure than had been afforded. lie thought that
if an intelligent foreigner had come into the House during
the debate on the introduction of the Bill, he weuld have
been rather surprised to see the Home Secretary, who was
very skilful, no doubt, as a Chancery lawyer, coming for-
ward to propose that 50,000 men should be raised to form a
militia. What could the Right Honourable Gentleman know
about military matters? In saying this he did not attribut
any blame to the Minister of the day; what he found fault
with was the system. He thought these matters ought to be
in the hands or a War Minister, who ought to be able to ex-
plain to the House the condition of the army and the nature
and extent of our resources. The consequence of the present
system was, that the House was about to pass a Bill in a
panic, which no one in his heart believed to be of any eel.-
vice, and which the inajoriiy of military men, and all civi-
lians, with some few exceptions, believed to be inefficient
for its purpose. He said, "with cone few exceptions," be-
caused be had perceived to
-da 1 ' in the papers an address
from the Right Honourable Gentleman the Ceancelior of
the Exchequer to those
confiding farmers who were his con-
stituents in Buckinghamshire. The Right Honourable
Gentlemen recounted in that address those rapid acts of
statesmanship fen. which he wished his Government to go
down to the admiration of posterity.— (Hear, hear.) The
Right Honourable Gentleman plumed himself on ono " as a
measure of internal defence, which it iseeelieved"— the Right
Hon. Gentleman did not state his own opinion on the subject
—" will soon prove both popular, economical, and efficient."
He (Mr. Osborne) would take leave to parody the words of
the Right Hon. Gentleman, and to assert his belief that this
" internal defence" would soon become an internal com-
plaint, which would prove neither economical nor beneficial.
He was very much mistaken if even the confiding farmers
of Bucking
• harashire did not ask the Right Hon. Gentleman
some more questions about the origin of this Bill. He was
rather surprised to find that the Right Hon. Gentleman
should have assumed the parentage of this measure, but he
was prepared to prove that he was only its p itative father,
and that he really had nothing to do with such a miser-
able abortion. He could prove that the idea was taken
by the Home Secretary from a pamphlet written in 1848,
by Mr. Frederick Hill, inspector of prison., but with the
omission of some useful adjuncts to the plan • an omissien
which would remind the House of two tolerably well-known
lines—

" Quem recitas meus eat, 0 Fidelline, lihellus,
bed male cum recitas, incipit ease taus."
-L-(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Every; Hon. Member
oh.
recol-
lected the proposition which the Right Hon.
years,
service;
made to give militiamen a vote after twosudden fit of and they also remembered—the most Gentleman
tlemen came down to the Houset
Parlia-
mentary repentance on record—when the R
give them a vote. There
and said that he did not mean
Right. Hon. Gentleman
was a great variety .
of thegibMthonGdeany,
on the following
that the proposal was a joke of
democratic,- others
juke at all. He believed that
were
But it was no .
aspinion aloaout this movement. Some
said that the tendeonteot
Lord Derby's.
He knew where the Right
the
of their thunder.
it from a speech of
i t was none
stole it from. He took
Hon. Gentleman _
_,
proposed to induce soldiers
Government had deliberately weighed the proposal, but
in gob who
Dir. Windham's, I
Billts a
bore
right to shoot game,—
(Laughter and cheers.) It on its face the marks
was
apiece of political patchwork,
of hasty compilation.
to enlist by giving their
Tsehrisgean
not intended for the defence of the country, but for the poli-
ticali
exigences of
a Ministry in its last moments. The
country did not want it, it had no belief in it, and what was
be of no use to the country.—(Hear, hear.)
more, it would
There was a perfect apathy about it out of doors, and no
one out of the House talked about Martello towers. But
il t it was said " Let us have an army of reserve." The
Righten Honourable Gentleman seemed to think that it was
enough to put a man in a red coat and make him shoulder a
musket, to make him a soldier. He Should have supposed
that he had read Mr. Windham with sufficient attention to
satisfy himself that mere numbers were not a suffi-
cient defence of a country. The Right Hon. Gentleman
proposed to raise the militia by giving a bounty, which it
was clear would operate most unequally in different parts of
the country. In the rural districts it would deprive the
farmer of a great deal of labour, probably when he most
wanted it, while in the manufacturing districts, where the
bounty would be of no avail, the Government must resort to
the ballot, a proceeding contrary to the " genius of the
epoch," which no statesman ought to disregard.—(Cheers
and laughter.) With regard, however, to this army of re-
serve, the Rht Honourable Gentleman the Secretary for
the Home Department told the House with considerable
aplomb and confidence, that he proposed to make them effi-
cient soldiers by drilling them for twenty-one days. Ile was
really quite astonished at the simplicity of the Right Hon.
Gentleman. Where had he been living all his life? Had
his briefs been so numerous in the Court of Chancery that
he knew nothing of the organiz itien of arms? He
defied
her Majesty's Ministers themselves, though he admitted that
they were active recruits, to acquire a knowledge of their
profession in twenty-one days. "e admitted that
the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had shown
much skill in performing a rather difficult evolution—
Le
namely, changing his trout in the presence of his adversary-
-(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer was well versed in light infantry moveinenPet. and
knew well how to advance and retire on a bu f in
(Laughter.) The Horne Secretary was equally exprt his
avoiding the file-firing of questions.—(Laughter.)
Esser (the
neighbour the Right Hon. Member for Nona
Secretary-at-War)
Greneral had
avoid danger at any quarter ; but the Attorneyra _
diments of
was an experienced soldier:
not been able to get much farther than thee
which was
"goose step."—(Laughter.) But the r_
fafserce, even as
proposed to be raised would be
and cheers.) The
an organized hypocrisy.—(Laughter a l'riscl would
would more probably
Bill was not worth the paper, and
(Cheers.) At i the
tempt invasion than repel aggression.—(Cheers.)
end of five years, after 121 days drill, the men were to be
Why. such a for" would be no-
thing to their homes.
au likely to be dangerous
thing but an irregular horde, moreoir foe?. - (Cheers.) Mr.
to the regular soldiers than to.tihties
but he never contem-
Pitt was a great advocate for Els ;
t in an efficient state. Some
plated such a militia as this. H
should be brigaded and kept in
the Home Secretary in his
idea was that the men
gentlemen, who resembled
but
—(Laughter)—had proposed
king
manwhetherherail
pooibie
said, 6; beg to ask any t .
amiability and general want of understanding
20 days' drill,understanding on these points

for a volunteer to acquire only the simplest
Hewou(lilid
it
ui
ask
iiinLOydays?'
thinking'— ( days?"—(Cheers.)
man—he rs. ) B, part of a soldier s
ask the
hOes bßoirgnhet) , too,Hon.
President of the India Board, who was a man f
rience, and might have heard Mr. Pitts peak—
oaritezpe-
how it was possible to make a man a soldier in 21 gday /—*
( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Walpole) s
seemed to emulate Pompey the Great, who used to boast
that
he could raise an army by stamping the ground ; but he was
more likely to resemble the fabled hero of the farce, and
would_be obliged to say—
" Begone, brave army! don't kick up a row."
—(Loud laughter.) The Bill was a trumpery:abortion ; but
there was one clause so obnoxious that he could not refrain
from making a remark upon it. He was much surprised
that a Minister at the eve of an election, and therefore anxi-
ous, he presumed, to acquire a little popularity, and to
consult "the genius of the epoch"—(Laughter)—should
have proposed to exempt Peers from serving.—(Cheers. )
He thought that that was a great slur upon the
British aristocracy, and he believed that they felt it as
an insult; for, whatever the faults of the aristocracy, they
had never shrunk from taking] their share in the dangers
and difficulties of the public defence.—(Cheers.) He had
said that it was impossible to make the militia an army
of reserve. An lion. Gentleman beside him had alluded to
the militia in America; but Washington had always spoken
of it with the greatest contempt. In 1776, after the battle
of Brooklyn, where the militiamen were repulsed with igno-
miny, Washington denounced them in the strongest terms,
and said, that the depressed state in which the American
cause then stood arose from "short enlistments, short
drill, and placing too great dependence on the mi-
litia."—(Hear, hear.) Reference had also been made
to the National Guard of France, but nothing could
be more unfortunate. When a motion was made in the
French Chamber for the re-organization of the National
Guard, General de Grammont stated—and he begged the
attention of the lion. Gentleman the Member for Glasgow
(Mr. Macgregor) to this, for he was fond of statistics— Gen. de
Grammont stated, that on the 2s'th June, 1848, although the
National Guard of Paris numbered 237,000, they could only
prevail on 8,000 to come out from their homes.—(Laugh-
ter.) He (Mr. B. Osborne) had on a recent occasion voted
with a Right Hen. Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) against
the proposal of the Ministers for re-allotting the vacant
seats, on the ground that this was merely a provisional
Government; but, if it was not right to legislate for the
purpose of giving Members to constituencies, he thought
they ought not to pass this Bill, which, in his conscience,
he believed would be of no use, at the instigation of Hon.
Gentlemen who had none of the confidence of that (the
Opposition) aide of the House, and very little of the other.
—(Ministerial cries of "Oh !" and counter-cheering.) If
they wanted any army of reserve at all, he believed the
true policy of this country was to look to their wooden
walls, to have an overpowering naval force such as no other
power could compete with and to ive full scope to volun-
teer rifle corps, if rifles they wa•
g
nted• But he called on the
House in the words of a statesman now no more, not to be
caught by a fear of in •
Ministry, not to invasion into the snare of a designing
pass a measure proposed by. a Ministry
p
scrambling for
a party and discussed in the panic a an ex-
Therg Pint. (Cheers
SOLICITOR-GENEdAL
Gallant Member, in his said that the Hon. and
quoted the authority of many e
somewhat humorous speech, had
Pitt, against the present proposalprons, from Washington to
(the Solicitor-General) thoughtof raising a militia. He
that if they
au-
thorities on the subject, the present Bill
looked
to
l! would not without support, and instanced the opinion stand
of the very eminent soldier who stood at din its favour
army, and the distinguished officer at the head of the
Board of Ordnance. The Government of the late
of the
Robert Peel had given instructions for preparing Sir
Bill for
the establishment of a militia, and the late a
Goverment
had brought forward a proposal somewhat similar t:that
now before the House. It was not, therefore, to be -
con-
tended that the authorities were all on the one side, neither
could it be maintained that the time had not arrived
when it had become the bounden duty of a Government to
bring forward such a measure as the present.— (Hear,
hear.) An increase in the regular army had been recom-
mended by those who were opposed to the present measure,
and strangely enough this recommendation had proceeded
from the party which boasted of being the Whigs of 1688.
(Hear, hear.) If, however, such a proposal as that of per..
maneutly increasing the standing army had been brought
forward by the Government, he could imagine the burst of
opposition • with which it would have been encountered by
the same Hon. Members.—(Hear, hear.) The militia which

it was proposed to raise had been characterised as a perfectly
inefficient body. He did not concur in that opinion, and
wished the House to remember that the force proposed to
be raised was intended to aid, and not to supersede, the
regular tooops. He believed that in the present state of
affairs the proposed force was the best adapted to meet the
requirements of the case, and the best calculated to afford.
a guarantee for the continaance of peace.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. PETO considered the increased facilities of commu-
nication by telegraph and other means as the best guarantee
for peace, andas the most efficient security against hostile
invasion. The present measure, while it was calculated to
disturb the whole industry of the country, would merely
produce a force which it was generally believed would be
exceedingly ineffective. There existed throughout the
country an intensity of feeling against the measure, of which
the Government appeared to be but little conscious, and he
thought that the better course would be to increase the
standing army rather than have recourse to a measure such
as this. (Hear.)
The House then divided, when the numbers were—
For the amendment ... ... 148
Against it
Majority ... —72
The Bill was therefore read a third time.
Mr. THORNELY then moved the addition of the fol-
lowing proviso to the end of clause 18:—" No member of
the senate of the University of London, nor any examiner,
professor, tutor, or lecturer of the said university, or of any
college, school, or institution connected with the said uni-
versity, under the provisions of any charter thereof, nor any
student of any such college, school, or institution, duly ma-
triculated in the said university, and actually receiving
education in any of the Said colleges, schools, or institutions.
nor any resident member of the University of Durham shall
be liable to serve or provide a substitute for the militia."

Mr. WALPOLE proposed to include within the exempe
tion contemplated by the proviso the members of St. David's
Col'ege, Lanipeter.
Mr. BRIGHT thought that Owen's College, Manchester,
which was in many respects a kindred institution to those
which it was sought to exempt from the operation of the
clause, ought also to be included within the exemption.
There was also a large college in the neighbourhood of
Manchester, intended for the education of ministers of the
Independent body of Nonconformists, as well as several
others in different parts of the kingdom. He could not dis-
cover any reason why those colleges embraced in the proviso
of the Hon. Member (Mr. Thornely) should be exempted,
and why other colleges of much the same character should
be differently treated, especially those where young men were
being.trained to the Christian ministry.
Mr. EWART thought the College of St. Bees stood in
the same category with reference to the claim of exemption.
Mr. WALPOLE said St. Bees was a school, and not a
college. •
TAhtteerpraorveimsoawrkt frsaodmdelldir.
to
tHheEYelWanOser,
laughter, moved the omission of clause 18, which he consi-
dered Mr. W. WILLIAMS. amid cries of " Oh, oh,g'o'
to be one of the most objectionable in the whole. Bill,
as establishing a system of conscription. -
Mr. WALPOLE.said the clause having been so fully dis-
cussedsidered inno Committee,thoat
n e
secondand
and
de
thirdwh ol whole
readingsßill
recog-
nizing the necessity, in some cases, of having recourse to the
ballot, he woul i put it to the Hon. Gentleman whether it
was worth while dividing the House. In that clause there
was nothing of a nature which compelled the Executiveputting
int
Go-
vernment to put the ballot in force in case the volunteers
should fail; but it was a permissive clause, enabling the
Crown to put the ballot in operation in case it should be
necessary.— (Laughter.) And if they left out the clause
.........
1.
\,..:1k
.........N.• ...
5.... :11.
t_bll4eBl
they must also leave out the proviso at the end of
another
clause, which restrained the Government from
execution the statute of George 111., unless they failed in
raising the volunteers.
The House then divided, when the result
'otwithstanding any"
For the M 111.531011
tOhtetheeillSe .. was__
clause
was Against
inserted motionM.aj. oo- ;raj Sirtt.
e..: .........
aEI: ''''''''''''''' )
...L.
f4osllowing
thing herein contained,
the 44th year of King George 111 provisions contained in an Act of
yeomanry and
to consolidate and amend the ,c- 54 intituled "An Act
relating to corps
entitled by virtue of the last
or
yeomanry
of the several Acts
Britain, and to make regulationsry and volunteers of Great
con-
tinuo in force, so far as the relating thereto.' shall con-
nba and
edu c o somen
corps of
which such corps are e sm" applies to the enrolment of
Volunteers, and the exemptions to
Act." _mentioned

Sir DE
order the ballot, except LACY EVANS then proposed a proViso at the
end of clause 35, to the effect that it shall not be lawful to
by Mr. Anstev an
Mr. GOULBUlllopposed the proviso,
INIr. D'Eyncourt.
danger
i‘ ir.
l\o'fAwLaPrOLE tin time of actual war or imminent
which was SUPPOrted
clause 35
end of N said the effect of the amendment at the
would be to exempt the miners in
Cornwall fThe B11:11"vieas
rom the
(Laughter. liable.— (L ballot, whilst all other classes would be
The
For the 82
proviso .. -' ...
...
Against it divided, when there appeared--
- 178
announced
••• ••• • •
Majority against the proviso ..• —9B
w Procedure Bill
,
thenpassed.
that-heeCphiroANposeCdEtLoLtOskße the
THE LAW BILLS.
Th
(Committee), the Masters in Chancery Abolition Bill (Com-
mittee), and the Inaprovement of the Jurisdiction of Equity
Bill (Committee) on Friday next.
NAVY PAY BILL.
the
Common EXCHEQUER a
The House went into Committee on the Navy Pay Bill.
Sir GEORGE PECIIELL desired to know if it were in-
tended by this Bill to leave three months' pay in arrear in-
stead of six months?
_.,
Mr. STAFFORD-1_
esiVh r
Mr. S. In
e e is the necessity for any
alteration? la what manner does the present system
work ill ?
STS' pre sent system is unpopular
Air. S
t the n, because the sstem appears unfavourable
among' •with the practice in
in comparison
present practice was introduced as a precaution against de •
sertion. but it is now found unnecessary. The whole tone of
the navy is so much better that it is not necessary to continue
the disqualification.
Admiral STEWART expressed his approval of the Bill.
He t bought it would be very acceptable to the navy, and
would tend to make the service popular. Although they
ought never to give up the right of impressment, he hoped
they would newer have occasion to use it.
Captain SCOBELL concurred in thinking the Bill, as far
as it went, would make the navy popular. He wished to
ask the Secretary et the Admiralty whether it affected
seamen of foreign stations, because most of our navy served

,n.?
Mr. inquired whether it would
STAFFORD replied
that it would not occasion one
farthing's additional expenSe; and that the measure would
a3bda rtV?t the Re
expense n s eS ofM ItTheacou also
country
i 3
apply to seamen on foreign stations.
The various clauses were then agreed to, and the Bill
passed through Committee.
ORDER- OF BUSINESS.
Mr. WALPOLE, in stating the order of public business,
said that the Government intended on Thursday to take
Supply at twelve o'clock, ar:d afterwards to go on with the
New Zealand Bill. Oa Friday they proposed to begin with
the Colonial Bishops Bill, then to go on with the law Bills,
and to end with the Interment Bill. (Laughter.)
POOR•LAW BOARD CONTINUANCE (IRELAND)

This Bill passed through Committee.
PASSENGERS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
The third reading , 4 this Bill having been moved,
Mr. MACGREGOR said that the shipping interest were
so much oppesed to this measure,
which bad taken them by
surprise, that he hoped the Government would not persevere
with it during the present session. if, however, the third
"04 WAI Primed PA the premt 9ccao9ll. he 611941 RIM