The Sun.
London, England, 1852-03-31 00:00:00

held in Stockport, and the operatives who attended that
meeting had unanimously agreed that if they did not receive '
the protection of the ballot, they would not have the fran-
chise.—(Load cries of " Hear, hear," from the Ministerial
benches.) He believed that in coming to that resolution
they had been quite right. It might be thought that a
good many millowners would attempt to coerce the voters
under their control in the same way in which the landlords
had frequently been charged with coercing their dependents.
But he (Mr. Cobden) stood there to protect people who had
votes against undue influence of any kind, whether it pro-
ceeded from a landowner, or a millowner, or a customer, or
a priest, or a mob.—( Hear, hear.) People holding the most
contradictory opinions on every kind of question were em-
ployed iu mills, and they ought to be allowed to give, by
their votes, the fullest effect to those opinions. A Roman
Catholic operative ought not to be compelled to vote in
favour of a no-Popery candidate; and an operative who
advocated what was called teetotal principles ought not
to be coerced into the support of a candidate who
was perhaps deluging a borough with intoxicating drinks.
The difficulty they would encounter would be telt more
among shopkeepers in such towns as Halifax and Hud-
dersfield than in such towns as Manchester or Leeds,
where there was a great mercantile community, and where
classes were not so mueh divided into manufacturers and
operatives. But in those smaller plsces to give the fran-
chise without the ballot would be an unmitigated curse to
the population, and on that view of the question he should
vote against an extension of the elective franchise unless
he thought it was certain to lead to the ballot.—
(Hear, hear.) He hoped Honourable Gentlemen would
not go through the terrible process of acting against
all reading in Hansard, for in two or three months they
would be called again to speak their convictions and to act
against all the cherished principles of their life; bat what-
ever they did, he said, " Don't commit yourself against the
ballot."—(Hear, and laughter.) Honourable Gentlemen
might laugh; bat be said argument had settled it, the moral
aspect had carried it, and it only wanted one more general
election, that is, if Government dare disclose their policy,
which he doubted, on a great question.—(Hear, hear.)
He thought Government were trying to shuffle with that
question.—(" Hear," and Oh, oh.) He said from the first
be never believed Government would dissolve Parliament on
the great question.—(Hear. hear.) Government had tried
to get out of it; and he had been informed that a Noble
Lord had said that night something in the other House
which led him to believe that the question would be got
rid of by evasion and trickery; but he hoped there was
spirit enough in that House, and if not in that House, in
the country, to bring them to book.—(Hear, hear.) But
if they dissolved Parliament it would be on the bread-
basket and the sugar-basin questions—questions in which
every man, woman, and child in the kfngdom took an into-
rest.—(Hear, hear.) He could tell them when opinions came
into collision on such questions, they would witness scenes
such as few former elections had ever witnessed.—(Hear.)
If, however, the great question was not settled at the next
election (we understood), we might be certain the Parlia-
ment would be a short-lived one, and that the fact of the
great question remaining unsettled would lead to a dissolu-
tion.—(Hear.) He advised Hon. Members not to put them-
selves in a false position, especially the young men.—
( Hear, hear and laughter.) There was hope of men under
forty—they who were above that age only changed their
opinions upoiks compulsion.—(Hear, hoar.) He entreated
Hon. Gentlemen, if they could not give an honest vote
on this question, to abstain from voting.—(Hear, hear, and
Oh.) He should vote on the question with the certainty
that in three or four years at furthest there would be very
little difference of opinion on it.—(Hear, hear.)
Captain SCOBELL rose, amid loud cries of "Divide."
He would only detain the House a short time— [Here the
interruption prevented the Hon. Member from being heard.]
The Hon. Member for Bridport had referred to the Chancellor
of the Exchequer's speech, in which he had referred to
what had occurred in New York between two representa-
tives at Washington. The Right Hon. Gentleman did not
see he was playing with edge tools. There were a great
many points in that Right Hon. Gentleman's speech which
ought to be set right, and if the House would allow him five
minutes more.— (Laughter, and Oh ) He represented a con-
stituency which sighed—which longed for the ballot—
(Laughter) and therefore, in fairness, the House ought to
give him a few minutes.— (Hear.) He would remind the
Hon. Member for Bridport who had cast reflections on the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Ripon, that " they
should not throw stones who lived in glass houses." If he
was not misinformed, that Hon. Gentleman had advocated
the ballot on the hustings.
Mr. WALPOLE said the Honourable Member for the
West Riding had put his opinions in favour of the ballot on
two grounds connected with the political and the moral
aspascts of the question. The Hon. Gentleman said, if the
ballot was introduced it would prevent certain evils which
he would point out, and the moral effects would lead
to an improvement of the moral condition of the
people. He could show the Hon. Gentleman and the House
that the ballot, instead of preventing the evils, as the Hon.
Gentleman contemplated, would leave them as they were;
or, rather, add to them.—(Hear.) He could show the Hon.
Gentleman and the House that the moral effects which would
flow from the ballot would, in a moral sense, instead of an
advantage, be detrimental to the morals of the electors.
Before he went into the two questions he would refer to
some remarks of the Hon. Member for the West Riding. The
first had reference to what the Hon. Member said respecting
the ballot; the other had relation to the allusion made by
the Hon. Member to a Noble Lord in the other House. The
Hon. Gentleman said the extension of the franchise without
the ballOt would be an unmitigated evil. When the measure
was carried for giving the right to vote to persons in
boroughs and counties occupying houses of 51. value, of
course the Hon. Member would not be found to have voted
in favour of the measure (we understood). The observa-
tions on the Noble Lord he considered were not worthy of
the Hon. Member, for he had not quoted accurately the
words of the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.) The words which
the Hon. Member used were very remarkable; he said that
the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had made use
of the expression that the landlords of England looked on
their tenantry as political capital.
Mr. COBDEN—No, I did not.—(" Oh, oh !" " Order!")
Mr. WALPOLE—I am not misstating what the Hen.
Member said.—(Cheers.)
Mr. COBDEN I read a quotation from Lord Derby's
speech.—(Order, order.)
Mr. WALPOLE I believe the words which the Hon.
Member attributed to Lord Derby were, that the tenants of
England were the political capital of their landlords.
Mr. COBDEN— I did not say so.—(Loud cries of " Oh,
oh.") The Right Hon. Gentleman is only wasting his own
time and ours in arguing on an unfounded hypothesis.
(No, no.) I quoted Lord Derby's words from Hansard—
( Oh, oh)—and I said, after some other remarks interspersed,
that he claimed the tenants as his political capital.—(ob, oh,
and groans.)
Mr. WALPOLE—I should be very sorry to misrepresent
the Hon. Member.

Mr. COB DEN—" Capital" is an American phtas3.—
(Order, order.)
Mr. WALPOLE—The Hon. Member shall not put me
out by these interruptions.—(Loud cheers.) That the Hon,
Member used the words I have stated, and in the manner I
have stated, I firmly believe, because they were taken down
at the time.—(Continued cheering.) If not, let him retract
them.—(Loud cheers.) The Hon. Member unquestionably
went on to quote the exact language used by the Noble
Lord at the head of the Government; but does that lan-
gaage contain the expression attributed to the Noble Lord
by the Honourable Member?—(Loud cheers.) On the
contrary, it pointed to this, that the occupying tenantry
of counties and the landlords of counties entertained feel-
ings of mutual regard and goodwill towards each other,
and in that way landlords exercised influence over their
tenants. That was the effect of the passage quoted by the
Hon. Member, and it contained nothing to justify him in
asserting that Lord Derby had said, or ever intended to say,
that the farmers of England were the political capital of
their landlords.—(Cheers.) Now, having corrected what I
think an unfortunate misrepresentation, I will now advert to
the two principal arguments of the Hon. Member in favour
of the proposition before the House. The Hon. Member said
that the ballot would prevent bribery, and also the influence
exercised by employers over the employed, and landlords
over tenants. I deny in toto that the ballot would have those
effectF, and for these reasons the first place, it is ad-
mitted that the ballot can only produce these results by
means of absolute secrecy. Now, when Honourable Mem-
bers assimilate the ballot used in political elections
with the ballot used in private clubs, they forget that
in the one case the voters, having only personal consi-
derations to deal with, conceal the manner in which they
vote, while, in the other case—that of the political elec-
tion—men's political opinions are usually well known, and
it would be impossible, therefore, that the requisite secrecy
could be observed.—(Hear, hear.) We all know that much
canvassing takes place before an election as to this or that
person's political opinions. The feelings and intentions of
voters would be collected at public-houses, clubs, and other
associations. It is said that if a shopkeeper does not vote as
his customers wish him, he is deprived of their custom, and
that if a farmer votes against the desire of his landlord, he is
ejected from his farm ; but introduce the ballot, and the only
difference would be that instead of these things taking place
in consequence of what is known, they will take place on
suspicion.—(Hear.) Again, it is said that the ballot will
prevent bribery. The example given by my Right Hon.
Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequr the other night of the
working of the ballot in New York is, to my mind, a canclu-
sive answer to that assertion.—(Cheers:and " No.") The
Hon. Member who says " No " could not have been in the
House when the Hon. Mover, in his able and temperate
speech, read a letter from an American gentleman, which
began by admitting that the observations of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer were substantially correct.—(Hear.)
Mr. BERKELEY—The :statement of facts, not the infe-
rences drawn from them.—(Order.)

Mr. WALPOLE—The Hon. Member's American corre-
spondent admits the Chancellor of the Exchequer's state-
ment of facts to be correct, but denies his inference. Then
I put aside the inference drawn by the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, as well as that drawn by the American, and I leave
the House of Commons to draw its own inference from the
statement of facts admitted to be correct.—(Cheers) The
New York case appears to me a complete answer to the as-
sumption that the ballot would prevent bribery. Then, if
it will not prevent bribery, I ask those who maintain that
inviolable screcy can be maintained under the system, bow
can bribery be punished—how can it be detected ?
,sad-
pose an election to run very close, and to be determined by
one or two votes, if corruption be practised
ex-
tensively on this occasion, how will you be able to detect
and punish it if votes be taken by means of the baet?
Look at the elections recently in France under the ballot,
u__
ever o
where so many votes were enumerated-4n
actually be given—that it was wittily rin"rked 1.).
aln'llus-
writer in this country that that was ore than could
e first practice i .
...vrm ti e Supposing
tration of two negatives making an TA---y.eau.v.oebe.tateint proofe of
the ballot were introduced, how could you t,
frauds committed, and how could you, h party
who ought to be the representative,
close, and should votes have beethaat ul usthe election run
given fraudulently against
him ?—(Hear.) But I own there is another reason,
in a moral aspect, which makes
low,"--m
more anxious to resist
the introduction of the ballot.l broadly contend that
in
this country, whenever a person is
..empowered to exercise
any trust whatever, ought to exercise it under the influ-
ence"h) inion.—(Cheers.) There is no
and control
reason why the voterdatPsuboljueldP be more irresponsible than the
high tribunal.—(Cheers.) Nay, more,
representative to thhasas
much right k what are the
tohpeinrioepnrselesfen
son
constituents he represents oaste constituents
right toO
ask in what way the representative exer-
ciseshave the • .
within these walls in pursuance of the choice
his duty
A tituents have made.— (Hear, hear.) I think, too,
servations which fell from the Hon. Member for
tthhosst-tb-.3b
rf,tquoiti.ng the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the
BridP ' -
Memberfor
Ripon, are not entirely to be forgotten; and,
though those observations are somewhat stronger than any
feln2 inclined to use though I should not be tempted to state
that everybody must be a scoundrel and hypocrite when le
exercises the franchise by the ballot, yet I say that this
practice maY have, in a moral aspect, a material influence on
the character of the people—(Hear, hear)—for the opportu-
nity of concealment will give the opportunity for fraud, and
for the inddlgence of malicious and revengeful feelings,
which could.l not be attended. with advantage to
the country.—(Hear, hear.), - Hon. Gentlemen who were
in this House at e former period, when great debates took
place on this subjett; "may recollect the pointed quotation
matte by the late Sir R. Peel, yfhen he atlTerted to the effect