The Sun.
London, England, 1852-02-07 00:00:00

with the other, and in point of fact the question of ob-
tlining a large supply of water necessarily incluled the
question of bow they were to get rid of it aster use. Ia
conclusion the Hon. Gentleman moved fur leave to bring
in his Bill.

Lord EBRINGTON presumed that both Bills would
be submitted to a Select Committee.
Mr. MO WATT—No.
Lord EBRINGTON—Was the Government Bill
alone, then, to be referred to it?
Mr. MOWATT—Yes.

Lord EBRINGTON then proceeded to say that he
was surprised to hear that the principle of competition
in the supply of such a prime necessary of life as water
should be still adhered to by the Government, The
House should, however, carefully consider the conse-
quences of adopting the principle of Mr. Mowatt's Bill,
and inviting the ratepayers in general to decide, by
p ,pular election, upon a question which required so
much scientific knowledge and such deep study and
calculation as the planning of a proper scheme for sup-
plying water to the metropolis. He could imagine, how-
ever, that Government might, with the various means
and appliances at its commend, advantageously lay down
a general scheme in the first instance, to be afterwards
worked out by a popularly-elected body. Upon this
point, therefore, he was at issue with Mr. Mowatt; but
the view which that Hon. Gentleman had taken and
proposed to carry out upon the subject of uniting the
consideration of water supply and drainage, was infi-
nitely sounder than the vi-w taken by the Government.
With regard to the Bill of his Noble Friend (Lord Sey-
mour), it seemed to leave every important question to
which it was directed for the -determination of a Select
Committee; so that the inhabitants of the metropolis
were left in ignorance even of what would be an approxi-
mation to the rates which were to be charged upon
them; of the limitations which were to be put upon the
overwhelming power of the several water companies,
from whose administration London had suffered so long
and so grievously. In several towns the piping of the
water supply had been executed at a rate of under Ios.
per head of the population, while in Manchester, not-
withstanding great quantities of water were required
for manufacturing purposes, the expenditure was only
10s. per head of the population; and he considered
that in the metropolis a saving could be effected
in that respect which would enable an ordinary dwel-
ling-house to be supplied at the same rate as that now
charged by the water companies for supplying a single
ro im. The House had reason to complain that the
measure of the Government was proposed in such a
crude state that it should be referred to a Committee.
However, when he had seen the clauses he would take
utPirtv:t• opportunity cf referring to the subject.

Sr G. UitEY !v4.Tfl the Host. Gentlernsa (Mr. Mins att)
objected to the scbeme of the Government, and as he
had paid great attention to the suileci, he had embo-
died his views in a Bill, which he haO asked leave to in-
troduce that it might stand side by side with the Govern-
ment measure. It was hardly tair of the Noble L, rd
(Ebrington) to object to everything and prop se nothing.
lie wished the Government to appoint a Commission
to take the whole subject into their own management—
a course to which the Government had strong objec-
tions, which he (Sir George Grey) had stated last ses-
sion, and the Noble Lord had not embodied his views in
a shape with which the House could deal. He (Sir
George Grey) had stated last session there were pe-
culiar difficulties in the way of applying the re-
presentative system to the subject in the metropolis;
bw that was a fair question for the House to decide, and
not a Committee, and let the House decade between the
principle of the Bill of the Government and that of the
Hon. Gentleman. But as to the Noble Lord's objection
to referring the Bills to a Committee, the Noble Lord's
own experience must tell him that Bills affecting interests
of a mixed character must, according to the inflexible
rules of the House, be referred to a Committee.
Mr. SLANEY said that two points ought to be in
sisted upon in the measure which should be adopted—
one, that the supply of water to the houses of the hum-
bler classes should be obligatory; the other, that those
who had the management of the sewerage should have a
sufficient command over the supply of water for the pur-
poses of perfect drainage. He was glad to find that the
first point was made a matter of obligation, and he
trusted the second would likewise be so.

Sir J. JOHNSTONE approved of the general prin-
ciples of the Bill.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bills.
VENTILATION OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. OSBORNE moved that Dr. Reid be called to the
bar of the House and questioned as to the means at his
disposal for ventilating the new buildings. Next to a
supply of good water, a supply of good air was neces-
sary, and he was almost inclined to brio., in a Bill for a
better supply of air to that House. He had strong ob-
jections to referring the matter to a Committee; for
three Committees had already eat on the subject, and
the inquiry had evaporated in a report, and that was all.
As he wished to take a brief course, then, ho propos-d to
call in Dr. Reid, and propose to him the six following
qaestions:—Was there any impediment to the due and
proper action of his plan for the ventilation of the
House? Could he state what those impediments were,
as a matter of fact and science, taking care not to enter
into any of the differences between himself and Mr.
Barry? What were the detects? Was it in his power
to remedy those detects? What were the remedies?
Could he name any house where the plan of ventilation
was at present iu existence the same as he proposed fur
the House of Commons?
Lord SEYMOUR objected to the motion. Ms had
himself asked Dr. R,dd what the impedimenta ware, and
he had answered that there were impediment. thrown in
the way the last five years. If Dr. Reid were called in
to gi through a stiveui,nt of all the iinvdtments. and
.11,:uld make reconitnetiOations which would involve.
architectural aLcrations, it would be neea-aary that
oti.ers also should be called in; 41,d the better w,,y,
therefore, he thought. Was to reter ;he inquiry to a Com-
mittee, who could prepare a st.atemit for the :7. ioue,
wi,h which it c,,uld ckui.

Mr. HUMI4; ped the Noble Lord would not &`.in'er
t, !Alf! mAton, whieh 'if:lS a r, asonable
ue,?essary rueoure. Whet tla,ny w;is Somethwg
iinmediate, kw] not to wait until a Comm tte- had ev,ete
a report. What they wanted to know was. who bad the
direction from the Government of the Ventiblion of du'
House? The Noble Lord said it was lir. Reid, but they
did not know that it was. Who did ventilate the House?
—(Laughter.) They knew it was not ventilated. Was
it not strange that the Commons of England should be
so treated? Two hundred thousand pounds had been
spent, from first to last in ventilating that House, and
see the result!

M. BROWN stated that a friend of his had got such
a severe cold in the House the first night of the session
from the strong draughts of air in it, that he was con-
fined to his be,l since.

Lord D. STUART urged the propriety of calling in
Dr. Reid, who could explain all the difficulties in the way
in ten minutes.

Lord J. RUSSELL certainly did not think the venti-
lation of the House quite perfect. At the same time he
did not think the question quite so simple as Hon. Gen-
tlemen supposed. They might ask Dr. Reid. and he
might explain in ten minutes what he considered the
cause of this defect, and what he wished to be done.
But the remedy ho proposed might be in Mr. Barry's
opinion destructive of the architecture of the House
and of the character which belonged to it. It the
House on hearing Dr. Reid should decide on adopting
his plan at considerable expense, perhaps then it would
be necessary to hear Mr. Barry as to whether he had
any objections, and those were questions which would
take up some days to consider, and it would be far
better that the matter should be referred to a Select
Committee.

Mr. NEWDEGATE said, if the House heard Dr.
Reid it did not necessarily follow that they should come
to the conclusion to adopt his plans. The ventilation
was certainly very imperfect, and whoever'a fault it was
Dr. Reid bore the blame; and the Hon. Gentleman op-
posite Was right in moving that he be called in to ex-
plain. Perhaps the Hon. Gentlemen would re-consider
the wording of his second question, as it might have a
tendency to extend farther than was perhaps intended.
Mr. BRIGHT said that every Committee that had
been appointed on the subject had been baffled by some
influence or other. The chief management of tee ven-
tilation appeared to be uncontrolled by the House. He
was not quite sure that Dr. Reid would produce any
amendment; but, as the proceeding contemplated by the
motion was a new one, he would support it. If Dr.
Reid were called to the bar he might strike out some-
thing as a remedy, and afterwards a Committee might be
appointed. If they went on as they were at present—
it was not the Government merely, which some were
desirous to destroy, that would be put out of existence,
but there would be neither Government nor Opposition
at the end of the session.
After a few words from Mr. SCOBELL,
Mr. MOFFAT objected to the motioan
t and as all
Select amendment, moved an appointment of
Com-
mittee.
The House then divided, when there ap.pesarsed :
For the motion .•• •••
24
Against it ... *" —3l
Majority .• •
The motion was accordingly agreaerdedtoa;t athned
bar.
Dr. Reid was called in, and app
In answer to Mr. OSBORNE,
Dr. Reid stated that he had been enthraudstehtawei
several
impediments ventilation of the House, and that there
impediments thrown in the way of the working of his
impediment had taken place in 1846,
Tits first impe
when the plans laid dionmwd'
the
alit) theset°ntfp ! a fifeil s
Houle were subverted,aunimously by a C;ommittee of the
down for
the unanimously
placed with respect to
House, snee,enanBduPhPel r °add
irition in which he had remained ever
h
er'tter inAnt,rBiposition in ehich he had lem.jjied ever
since, no decision had ever been made since the period
since. no ----
Donr.
Reid) referred es a consenting party,
In to which
Dr. Reid stated that the
to(fur.ther questions,
reply to
that area of
but not pneu-
matically practicit difficulty arose from thetheft
boundary taken could. be architecturally,
defined, inasmuch as the cold air was not
shut out. The evils the House was subj. ct to. there-
fore, were the currents of hot and cold air that played
throught it. On the first night of the session so strong
had been these currents, he said, that the doors were
torn off; and, consequently, as the House stood, it would
be as unreasonable to ask him to control the winds that
blo v over the Bay of Biscay as those which rushed
through the passages into the House. That was the
first difficulty. The second arose from the innumerable
chimneys in and about the House, which were con-
stantly elaborating carbonic acid gas. In fact, the House
sat in an atmosphere of carbonic acid gas at that mo-
ment, as these chimneys were pouring their products
into all the passages. The third evil arose from the
lights. He had been informed that the lights would be
ventilated; but if any gentleman went round the corri-
dors he would see that not a single light was ventilated.
es
same as
__Pprlan forcpred
In fact, to sit in the House was precisely the
am
sitting above a gas lamp. There were other
points, but
of the
these were the most important. Fifty members
Royal Society had examined his (Dr. Reid s)
Tentillit" of lighting of the .gear, sad