The Sun.
London, England, 1864-06-11 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 11, 1864.

Manchester would be most grateful to the noble lord for
this proposal.
Mr BAINES said that all the mercantile interests of the
country would heartily approve of the vote.
Mr CRAWFORD said his constituents in the City of
London unanimously declared for the proposal.
Mr Malins, Mr Marsh, Mr M. Smith, and Mr Cox like-
wise strongly supported the motion.
Sir F. BARING, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer in
the days when Sir Rowland Hill's plans were sanctioned
by Parliament, testified to the great pleasure which he
felt at the announcement of the proposal of Government.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr NEATE, as the private secretary of the right hon,
baronet at the period to which he had just adverted,
reminded the house that they ought not to forget the part
which the right hon. gentleman acted in giving effect to
the suggestions of Sir Rowland Hill. (Hear, hear.)
Mr HENNESSY asked haw it happened that Sir Row,
land Hill had never filled other than a subordinate office
in the department with which he had been connected ?
He ventured to suggest that if there was a place in the
Government not directly connected with finance, that ought
to have been given to Sir Rowland Hill, that place was the
office of Postmaster General. In any other country, per-
haps, the services of Sir Rowland Hill would have been
requited in that manner.
Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, there are two very good
reasons why I think it would have been no benefit to Sir
Rowland Hill to have been made Postmaster General. He
would have had no increase of salary while he held the
office, and he would have had to go out with the Govern-
ment. (Laughter.) I just wish to answer one observation
made by the hon. gentleman. He said he did not believe
the Post-office paid its expenses. Now the net revenue of
the Post-office for the year 1863 was £1,793,000, after pay-
ing expenses.
Mr D. GRIFFITH was surprised that the practice had
sprung up of appointing peers to an office that was of a
strictly commercial and mechanical character, and he wished
for information on the subject.
Mr J. WHITE said while the noble lord told the house
that the Post•office paid to the revenue £1,700,000, he had
forgotten that the packet service, which cost £1,000,000, was
a legitimate charge on the Post-office. We therefore derived
only £700,000 from the Post-office. He did not Fay this in
disparagement of Sir Rowland Hill, but he thought the
mistake ought not to pass uncorrected. He should cordially
support the vote.
The vote was then agreed to without a dissentient voice,
On the vote of £65,543 for the expenses of the Board of
Trade and subordinate departments,
Mr A. SMITH and Mr Williams complained of the in-
crease in the estimate.
Mr M. GIBSON said the increase arose from a desire to
make the department more efficient. It was also attributable
to the increase of business received by the Board of Trade
from the Admiralty in connection with harbours, and to the
annual increase of the salaries of the clerks. Several places
which were vacant had not been filled up. The increase
arose from increased business of the department, and the
change of organisation had improved its efficiency. He
expressed his belief that it would be a great pity if Admiral
Fitzroy's department should be given up, until further
experience showed whether it was desirable to continue
permanently the expenditure for meteorological purposes.
Colonel DICKSON had witnessed the accident at Egham,
and had seen two men die from want of some apparatus like
tools and ropes to extricate them from the rains of the
crushed carriages. He suggested that such appliances should
be attached to all trains.

Idr COX moved to report progress.
Mr M. GIBSON explained that the powers of the inspec-
tors were limited ; but no doubt the remark of the hon. and
gallant member would, lead to some such precaution being
adopted,

The motion, to report progress was negatived, and the
vote agre-dd to.

The, next vote was one of £2,908 to pay the salaries and
expenses of the office of Lord Privy Seal.
Mr COX said after twelve o'clock they ought not to pro-
ceed with supply, and again moved to report progress.
The cpmmittee divided—

For the motica...
Against it 59
Majority .. —52
The vote was agreed to.
The next vote, of £8,741 for the Civil Service Corarais-
sion, was agreed to.

£19,491 Was next proposed for the Paymaster-General's
Departinent.

The vote was agreed to, and the house resumed.
The report on Lady Elgin's Annuity was brought up and
agreed to, and leave given to found a bill thereon.
The report of the Greek Loan of £4,000 was brought up
and agreed to after some discussion, and leave given to bring
in a bill.

WEIGHING OF GRAIN (PORT OF LONDON)
BILL.
Mr CRAWFORD, on resuming the adjourned debate on
the second reading of this bill, proposed that if the house
agreed to the second reading, he would consent to have the
bill referred to a select committee upstairs.
Colonel DICKSON moved the adjournment of the
debate.

Mr AYRTON supported the amendment.
Mr Alderman ROSE was proceeding to address the house
in support of the bill, and against the adjournment of the
debate, when

Mr AYRTON rose to order, and directed the attention
of the Speaker to the ci►cumstance that there ivere not forty
members present.

The right hon. gentleman, having counted the house,
ascertained that there were only thirty members present,
and so the house stood adjourned at one o'clock.

rough calculation. He appears to have ordered everything
that he was likely to realize in money. The goods were
purchased at the best manufactories, and on very advan-
tageous terms. I have since paid for all of them except a
few trifles. So lately as Saturday last I paid about £3,000
in respect of them. It having come to our knowledge that
a quantity of leather of a peculiar kind had been offered for
sale to Messrs. Bevington, of Cannon-street, at an ex-
tremely low price, our suspicions were excited, and my
partner wrote to the prisoner on the sth February charging
him to observe the greatest caution with regard to the houses
with which he dealt, and to have no transactions with any
one unless he had a satisfactory reference. Believing the
goods offered at such low prices to Messrs. Bevington were
some which the prisoner had disposed of to other parties who
had not paid for them, the prisoner was directed to go imme-
diately to Messrs. Bevington's, and to take a lien on them,
requesting them at the same time not to pay to the sellers
until we ourselves had been paid. Just before that the
prisoner had written to us stating he had sold all his goods.
It was not from him that we had heard the leather had
been offered to Messrs. Bevington at low prices. Up to
January last the prisoner had not fkrrnished us with tt-
names of his buyers, and Nre had then not the least
idea that he had sold Feeds to Lheman or Arend. We
expected his customers wouldi have been large respectable
houses. lat once came to London, arriving on Feb. 7. I
saw the prisoner and spoke to him about the goods offered
to Messrs. Bevington. Ho milled that the buyers with
whom he had dealt always paid him beforehand, and that
there wets nothing to fear. He explained that the leather
had been offered to Messrs. Bevington with the view only of
proving that it had not been bought too dearly at Paris. I
believe Messrs. Bevington did not buy any of it. On Feb.
8, I learned the names of his 'buyers from the prisoner. I
asked
owed. I him for a list
about of all his buyers and the amounts they
put a dozen names, and among them
those of Lheman and Are
respect Co those two, Navin I made inquiries, and with
g been told that they were not
worth £2OO, I told him he was not to trust them for any fur-
ther amount. He said he would not, but at the same time
he was sure they would pay to the last farthing. Hs said he
had known Lheman for many years in Paris, that he was
very honest, and that M. Bevan; a French banker in Lon-
donlle told me he had seen Lhe-
man hreadeeriveceolm97oeonOdiend exchange for a packet of bills. He
said also that Lheman bad introduced him to Arend. He
afterwards stated that a Mau named Leo had introduced him
to Arend. I saw Leo outside the police-station when Lheman
was given into custody, I had looked at the prisoner's books,
and, finding them in a state of the greeted confusion, I
begged him to employ a bookkeeper at caw. The prisoner
y difficult to find one in London, but
Belgian whom he knew, and should
shortly have the advaut—
trehpaltiehde
ht ha
da t
si
pt wk
ea
ns vt
ee re
age of his services. Before returning
to Paris I saw Lhensan (who is now in custody on a charge
of forgery), and told him it was neoeesary we should have
debt.es or mx e 7 soeotHot
ee mas
nae
inddt
thohefa
twt a
We lmareagetadmroanwntenhheimowfeerd
partus— £
of6,othooe
as
great merchant, that he had sent
consignments to ditterent pa its of the world, especially
the Cape and the Mauritius. He said he had sent many
goods to Auetralia, and that he had written to all parts ask-
ing for money more than £2o,ooo—but that none had yet
arrived. Ile at first objected to mar drawing bills upon him,
but at last consented that we should do so for £2,000, adding
that he would pay the remainder in May. The prisoner was
then present, and heard all the conversation. After we had
left Lheman's office he said he regretted very much that I
had made that arrangement with Lheman, because he was
aura I would have been paid the whole debt by the middle
mFaenb February, y
to,
havean d
nI gav
doifrAecptiroinl's Ttohjthswe
w
o
PaTiosonn etrhethBatthLl!ef
fur-
ther credit until he paid what he owed. Lheman was at
that time tccupying two small rooms on a first floor at 140,
Fenelacarch-atreet, and I only saw one man there as a clerk,
poorly dressed. When we came out the prisoner, observing
that I was not satisfied credit to a so with his having given such large
person ttnastanced, said I was not to judge
by appearance, for Lheman was a partner in one of the first
houses in London. The prisoner did not afterwards tell me
that on that very (ley, Feb. 8, he had supplied to Lheman
£2,128 wort of goods, and on the 11th £790 worth, or nearly
£3,000 wortlisin all, contrary to my express instructions,
Titere is no entry in hie book of those goods having been
r supplied, or any of them. On the 9th I meet Arend at my
office in Cheapside, the prisoner observing that he wished
to afford me the pleasure of his acquaintance as one of his
principal customers. On that occasion Arend said he bought
large quantities of goods of other London houses for con-
signment, but that he certainly preferred our houses because
we were selling him goods on very advantageous terms.
(A. laugh.) lie added that he was waiting for some silks
that had been ordered for him by Mr Werner (the pri-
soner) from Lyons. These orders were stopped by us at once,
and the prisoner blamed us very much for having done so.
Arend said he had intended to ship the goods to different
countries. I told him, however, that we could not sell
him any more, and that he must settle his accounts in the
same manner as other customers—by bills that we
should draw upon him at once. He then owed us £5,000
or £6,000. He promised to accept a bill for £2,000. The
day after this interview, though I had told the prisoner not
to give Arend credit for a single farthing more, he supplied
Arend with goods to the amount of £1,179, On Feb. 14 I
returned froin Paris, and between that time and the 20th
prisoner forwarded to me there acceptances of Arend for
£3,000, of Lheman for £3,000, and of a man named Lindner,
whom Lheman had recommended to me, for £1,200. Those
bilis were payable in April, but we returned them to him on
Feb. 20, on the ground that we had found it impossible to
negotiate them. In an accompanying letter we charged the
prisoner not to give credit to Lheman and Co., Arend, or to
Lindner for a greater sum than £500; and that to justify
risks of considerable sums they must be incurred only with
respectable houses, well• established, and whose acceptances
we should find no difficulty in negotiating. On Feb. 23 the
prisoner wrote us a letter, in which he said " I am going to
toll you what I have done. Arend has plenty of money, but
he does not wish to pay any yet. His meson is that he
wants some more hoods, and seeing clearly that we dont
wish to give him more credit he does not see why he should
pay. Lheman says the same. They all reply thus to my
questions, 'Do you think we have thousands of pounds
sterling to give you every time you ask ?' For the future
I will conform in all parts to your instructions, and as re-
gards the present 1 close the credit with these men."
That letter was written by the prisoner on Feb, 23, and
betwen Feb. 27 and March 8 he supplied Arend, unknown
to us, with £7,000 worth of goods. On the 15th or 16th
of March I returned to London. and had all the prisoner's
books made up by an accountant. I found that Lheman
was indebted to us to the amount of £12,000, though the
prisoner's books only showed from £B,OOO to £lO,OOO. As
soon as I arrived I told the prisoner that I wanted to see if
Lheman could pay his bill for £2,000 due on the
2d of April. He said Lheman had positively pro-
mised to pay him from £4,000 to £e,ooo in a few days.
The day the prisoner told me that I received a letter from
our house in Paris stating that a gentleman named Devaux
had called there and said that Lheman was not able to
meet his bill. I afterwards saw Lheman, when ho said he
could not pay, Vat if I would renew the bill until the 2d of
June he would meet it then. I did not accede to that re-
quest, and told:him he must give us security for the sum
he owed us, upon which he opened his iron chest, and took
out a lot of bills of exchange for about £B,OOO, which he
handed to me, and which I have since found to be worth-
less. The bills have now been paid, though overdue,n and
Lheman still owes me £12,000. He is now
in
ctine. toetndy
on a charge of uttering five of these bills, amounting
£4,393 odd, knowing them to be forged.
Mr Lewis applied to have the prisoner remanded, ob-
serving that his client, M. Tanco Amero,
in instituting
getting
this prosecution had not the slightest expectatioen of
was
solely
a single shilling of his money back, and that b
animated by public considerations, having regard to the
protection of commerce.

Mr Wontner, jun., for the prisoner, said ho hoped on a
future occasion to be able to give an entirely different com-
plexion to this matter.

Mr Alderman Hale, replying that it would be up-hill
work, remanded the prisoner, and peremptozily refused to
entertain an application to admit him to bail inthe interim.

Crystal Palace—Projected Thames Tunnel

Railway.

From evidence given yesterday
manager of the Crystal Palace, before Lord Stanley's com-
mittee, it appeared that the palace had been opened (on the
previous day)
exactly ten years; that during that period it
had been visit ed by 15,266,91.2 persons, exclusive of the com •
pany'S staff, exhibitors, and their assistants, &c., which
would have brought the numbers up to nearly seventeen
millions and a half.

Mr Bowley's evidence also went to show that although
there had been a considerable increase in the population of
the north-east of London, according to the last census, it
had been much larger in the southern districts. He in-
stanced Penge as having, between 1851 and 1861, increased
329 per cent., Sydenham 135 per cent., and Plumstead and
Charlton 150 per cent., &c.
Mr Bowley's evidence further went to show that a junc-
tion between the north and south of London, east of Lon-
don.•bridge--such as was proposed by tho Tunnel line—was
an absolute necessity; and that it would be a great boon to
the inhabitants of the poorer districts lying to the north and
north-cast of the metropolis-
It also transpired in evidence, that in addition to the pre-
sent communication with the palace via liensington, Vic-
toria, and London-bridge stations, that the high level line
now forming in front of the palace would be open for traffic
by the let of May next year, when, by arrangement with the
South-Eastern hallway and other companies, direct access
to the palace would also be had from Blacsfriars, Cannon-
street, Charirg-crone, and whole the system of main lines of
the:South-Eastern and South-Western companies.
1 Mr Bewley pointed out to the committee that the promo-
tion of these HUES and junctions had very rfluch occupied
his attention during the past six years, and that he regarded
the formation of the present proposed line, crossing the
river by means of the Thames Tunnel,'ets;the completion of
a perfect system of metropolitan and provincial communica-
tion with the Crystal Palace, and that by these means all
the great lines would have direct access to it, and the in-
convenience of the present termini both in London and at
the Crystal Palace might be obviated, and any number of
persons might Visit the palace on crowded days in comfort
and safety.

Naval and Military Intelligence,

THE NAVY.