The Sun.
London, England, 1864-03-19 00:00:00

COLLECTION OF TAXES BILL.

In reply to a question from Sir H. WILLouGHBv,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated
that, in conseqwince,of various amendments which had been
suggested, it was ;proposed to reprint the bill ; and then he
wcould name a distant day, probably the 15th or 20th of
April, for discussing it in committee.

MR. STANf3FELD AND SIGNOR MAZZINI.
Lord ELCHC,—I wish to put a question to the noble lord
at the head of 1 he Government, of which I have given him
private notice. It is a question which follows fromthe pain-
ful discussion in this house arising out of the unfortunate
friendship between a member of her Majesty's Government
and Signor Mazzini. Ido not wish to revive that discus-
sion, nor to express any opinion as to the course taken by
the hon. member for -Halifax since the question was first
brought before the ',louse by the hon. member for Finsbury.
I will not say NO:ether or not it may have been better for the
hon. member est once to have expressed his regret for what
had occurre, than to enter upon the defence of a man whom
I believe +,O be incapable of being defended. But, looking
dispase.onately at the question, it appears to me that the
hon. gentleman has been guilty of a grave indiscretion—
(he hear)—an indiscretion amounting to a public scandal,
T he indiscretion of the hon. gentleman is this, that he, a
member of her Majesty's Government, allowed until re-
cently his name to be used as a cover for the secret corre-
spondence of Signor Mazzini. I say that this is an indis-
cretion amounting to a great public scandal, affecting not
only the character of the Government and this house, but
also calculated to create a bad understanding and a bad
feeling between this country and a friendly foreign Power.
(Opposition cheers.) Such being so, it appears to me the
division of last night, so far from putting the house in a
better position, puts us in a worse one ; for the question,
which was not a party question, was made by that division
a party question. I voted in the minority, but not as a
partisan. I did so as the only means which I saw present-
ing itself for vindicating the honour of this house and the
honour of the country. (Hear, hear.) Now, any further
resolutions on the matter will unquestionably be made the
subject of party divisions, and a colour will he given to such
discussions on this side of the house. And, speaking of this
as a party question, I must say that many hon. members
have expressed to me their bitter regret at the position in
which they were placed last night. But, if these divisions
cannot place the house right, there is a course which, if it
had been taken at the outset, would have placed the house
right before the country, and the country right before fo-
reign Powers ; and that is, if the hon. member for Halifax,
when he saw the position to which his culpable indiscre-
tion had reduced himself, the Government, and the
country, had at once tendered his resignation to the
noble lord. (Opposition cheers.) Therefore the question
which I wish to ask thenoblelord at the head of the Govern-
ment is—and I wonder that it has not been esked already—
whether the hon. member for Halifax has, at any time
since this question was first brought under the notice of
the house, formally tendered his resignation to the Go-
vernment, and whether his resignation has been refu Bed.
Since I came down to the house this evening I have been
informed privately that he has done so. "When I thought it
desirable to ask this question I was entirely ignorant of the
fact. I determined to ask the question, because last night
the feeling was unanimous amongst many gentleman that,
no matter what explanations the hon. member for Halifax
had to offer to the house, the natural course for the hon.
member would be to tender his resignation. Such was the
feeling not only of gentlemen opposite, but even the friends
of the hon. member expressed the same conviction. (Hear,
hear.) I think therefore that the hon. gentleman and the
house would be placed in a much more favourable position
if the hon. gentleman took that course. (Hear, hear.) With
reference to the resignation having been tendered to the Go
vernment, but not accepted, that is a matter bets een the
house and the Government upon which I have no desire to
express an opinion.
Lord PALME R,STON—I cannot but regret that my hon.
friend in asking this question—which he might have done

simply, without dilating on so many matters—has thought
it right to revive the discussion of last night—(cheers)—

and which I certainly hoped had been then concluded.
(Renewed cheering). I shall therefore abstain from follow.

ing the example of my noble friend and going into that ques-
tion again. I shall simply answer the question which ho has
put to me. The hon. lord asks whether my hon. friend did,
subsequently to the notice taken of this matter by the hon.
member for Finsbury (Mr. Cox) tender the resignation of
his office. My hon. friend immediately made a communi-

cation to me, throne' a common friend, to the effcct that he

placed his office entirely at the disposal of the Government
—(cheers)—and that at the slightest intimation from me he
would tender his formal resignation. My answer was that
I did not wish him to tako that step, and if there is any re-
sponsibility attaching to that decision, I am perfectly ready
to accept of it. (Loud cheers.)
Mr, W. E. DUNCOMBE was exceedingly surprised at
the conclusion of the noble lord. In his opinion it was un-
worthy of the Government that there should sit upon the
Treasury bench ono who for 17 years had been the intimate
friend of Mazzini—a man who had not the courage to carry
out his diabolical schemes, but who, skulking under the
protection of this free country, plotted and conspired against
the crowned heads and the established Governmeats of
Europe.

Alderman ROSE thought it would be heard with some
surprise, not only in this country, but throughout the con-
tinent, that the noble lord at the head of the Government
had thought it right to endorse the conduct of the hon.
member for Halifax. That very afternoon he had seen a
letter from Paris which recounted that this discovery had
created a feeling throughout Franco which sooner or later
would cause the noble viscount deeply to regret that he had
not accepted the resignation of the hon. member for Halifax.
Mr. W. E. FOSTER—I hope that a motion on this sub-
ject will be definitely brought before us, and that the House
of Commons will decide whether the circumstance of a
gentleman being the friend of Signor Mazzini renders him
an improper person to become a member of the Administra-
tion. Ido not agree with Signor Mazzini in his views.
Indeed, I disagree with almost all the views which he now
holds on foreign politics, and I think be has done some
harm to the cause of liberty and order. Still I think him
to be a most hoaest and sincere man, and a devoted patriot ;
and I believe that one great reason for the hostility now
shown to him, and, through him, to my hon. friend the
member for Halifax, is that he has been the cause of the
resurrection of Italy—(Oh, oh, and cheers)—and that in
times past he has kept up the flame of patriotism in that
country. lam not ashamed of acknowledging my acquain-
tance with Signor Mazzini, and I should be ashamed of my
hon. friend the member for Halifax if, when he became a
member of the Administration, he had said to Signor
Mazzini, "I shall have nothing more to do with you; I
disown your friendship." I admit that my hon. friend
has committed a great mistake, and that he ought to have
expressed his regret for what occurred. That he has
done. (Cries of "No, no,'• on the Opposition benches.)
But is it really the opinion of this house that what his oc-
curred should prevent my hon. friend from being any longer
a member of that Administration of which he is such an
ornament ? (Cheers.) The noble viscount at the head of
the Government, with that courage and generosity which
makes him so popular in this house and the country, has
declared that ho would not be instrumental in giving effect
to the determination to drive my hon. friend from office.
Well, then, I am persuaded that the house will not come to
a different conclusion. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. WALSH considered that there was a very great
distinction between being a friend of Mazzini for many
years, and affording Mazzini facilities for carrying on a clan-
destine correspondence. In his opinion it was most unfor-
tunate that a gentleman holding a conspicuous office in the
Administration should be so intimately connected with an
individual who had been engaged in conspiracies against all
the States of Europe. He had always entertained the
greatest admiration. for the character of the noble lord at the
head of the Government, and he had always observed that
it was one of his noblest characteristics that he never de-
serted a friend, no matter in how great straits he might be,
and no matter how much in the noble lord's own intimate
mind he knew he was making personal and political sacri-
fices in doing so. (Cheers.) Upon the present occasion he
really thought the noble lord had been more actuated by
this chivalrous feeling than by a deliberate approval of the '
conduct of the hon. member for Halifax. (Hear.) The noble
lord must well know—as every member of this house must
be convinced—that this unfortunate affair had been a very
great blow to his administration. 3 The answer of the noble
lord was not perfectly clear. He understood the noble lord
to say that the hon. member for Halifax had not formally
tendered his resignation, but that through a mutual friend--
through a third party—he had intimated his readiness
to resign if the noble lord requested him to do so.
However, circumstances have now in some degree
changed—the hon. member for Halifax no longer
stood in the same position. A majority of
that house, certainly a very narrow one, had to a certain
extent protected the hon. member, and, as it were, reesta-
blished him. Well, he would not ask the noble lord fur-
ther questions on the matter, but he would ask the hon.
member for Halifax whether, considering the position in
which he had placed the house and the Government of
which he was a member—(oll, oh, and hoar, hear)—consi-
dering the position in which he had placed the country—
whether it did not occur to him, as a gentleman and a man
of honour, that his proper course would be frankly and dis-
tinctly to tender lila abaoluto resignation to the noble lord.
(Hear, hear.)
Lord PALME RS TON—I desire to explain that my hon.
friend, through a common friend, threw himself and his
office entirely in my hands. (Cheers.)
Mr, HA.LIBURTON, referring to the diseueeion of lest