The Sun.
London, England, 1852-12-07 00:00:00

We can always comprehend how the fate of Napoleon,
so chequered as it was,. and such a picture of immense
glory and immense misfortune as it presented, was
exactly calculated to raise all the sympathies and in-
terests of human nature ; and we cannot, therefore,
wonder that it made a lasting impression upon the
people over, whom he ruled so long and so greatly. But,
my lords, it is scarcely possible for any person in any
European state out of France to suppose that the
prestige of that name remains so long, so steadily, and
so strongly, that thirty-seven years after his abdication,
his nephew should have appeared in three different
characters before the French people within the course
of four years—first offering himself without any of
the necessaries of courts or governments to assist him—
first, as simple President of the French Republic with a
Chamber ; secondly, as absolute President of the French
Republic without any constitutional form of government ;
and thirdly, as Emperor of the same people :—first,
elected by six millions—next elected by seven millions—
and lastly, elected by nearly eight millions, a number
that would form almost the entire male adult population
of France. The present is not the time to speculate upon
the reasons for this extraordinary exhibition of senti-
ment and Conviction on the part of the French people.
But I think that if we have long lost sight of the power
of that name in France, it has been because we have not
sufficiently observed that up to this moment, in the
chances and changes which have taken place in the
government of that country, only one part of her
population was consulted. It was in Paris alone
that those changes have taken place. It was in Paris
alone that the fates of Louis Philippe and Charles
X. were determined. It was by the voice of the Pari-
sians alone that the republic was established in the year
1848, and although both forms of government successively
met with the silent approbation of the country, yet on
no one occasion until the President of the Republic was
elected in 1848, were the whole mass of the French
people consulted with regard to what form of govern-
ment they preferred, or what manner of man they sought.
In the mass of the French people one recollection—one
only, and one strong partiality prevails ; and I think it
is not difficult to understand why this should be. In
1815, at the time of the Restoration, the French army—
an enormous French army—was disbanded. It was
poured back again upon the hearths of the population.
The prisoners of war returned from all parts of the world
in thousands and tens of thousands, and I believe I am
not exaggerating the number when I say that, perhaps
400,000,. or from that to half a million of men, with one
fixed idea in their minds, and with one—l may call it--
worship fixed in their hearts, then returned to their
homes. For 20 or 30 years afterwards they talked and
they thought but of one man ; and they thought and
they spoke of him as the great idol of their imagina-
tion ; and. though they need hardly have exaggerated
his military events and his military glory, they still
added to -those all that the warmest enthusiasm could
give. Upon the rising generation all this could not be
lost ; and it appears to me that the seeds which these
men have • sown in the provinces of France are now to
be seen, in the fruit of which we have witnessed the
ripening on this occasion. Seeing then this immense
demonstration of feeling on the part of the French
people, it was impossible for her Majesty's Government,
even if it had not been our usual policy to sanction
such demonstrations, not to have advised her Majesty
cordially to accept and recognise the empire. There
might have been one, and one only, reason that might
have tempted us to hesitate before we advised her
Majesty so to proceed ; but I rejoice to say that
the good sense of the present Emperor, foreseeing
the difficulty, met it in advance, and removed from
her Majesty's Government those difficulties that
might otherwise have intervened. I allude to a
somewhat ambiguous expression which was found
in the report of the Senatus Consultum, which re-
ferred t o the late President of the Republic, and which
was connected with the title he meant to take
—that o f Napoleon 111. That expression might have
induced her Majesty's Government, and would naturally
have induced any one, to suppose that the interpretation
to be given to it would have been that of common par-
lancelwhen it designates sovereigns—that it gave the
bearer of the title an hereditary retrospective right to
the throne, and that he was descended in a straight and
legitim ate line, and by right had new ascended the throne
of France. My lords, the advisers of the present Empe-
ror of the French, forseeing this difficulty, frankly took
the initiative, in assuring her Majesty's Government that
it related simply to the historical incident that in France.
and according to French law, two sovereigns of the name
of Bonaparte only had preceded the present Emperor.
Neither of them, as your lordships know, were recognised
by their country, and the French know that as well as
your lordships—and they therefore adopted the title with
no intention of claiming any hereditary right from the
first Emperor. They have distinctly intimated that,
both to her Majesty's Government, and since in a speech
by the Emperor himself ; he has declared, and his Go-
vernment have also declared it to ours, that he is sove-
reign only by the voice of the people, not by hereditary
right to the throne—that he distinctly recognises all the
Governments that have existed since 1814 in France—
that he recognises the acts of those Governments, and
acknowledges the solidarity of those Governments in suc-
ceeding others. With this satisfactory and frank expla-
nation, it was only left to her Majesty's Government, as
I said before, cordially and with pleasure to acknowledge
the decided will of the French nation ; and to send to
her Majesty's ambassador at Paris new credentials for
the new court. In the notification which the Emperor
hao made to her Majesty's Government, he says that
the same policy which influenced the President will
influence the Emperor. And with respect to that policy,
as regards England, it is impossible to speak too
highly of the cordial and frank manner in which every
question has been entertained by the Government of
Franc le—at least since I have had the honour of holding
the se: Os of office.. (Hear, hear.). I have no doubt my
noble ilriend opposite will say the same thing at the time
he filled my place. I have found nothing but fairness
and fair play in all these transactions—nothing but as-
surances of good-will and wishes to maintain an unbroken
friendship with this country. I believe the Emperor
himself, and the great mass of the people, deeply feel the
necessity, for the interests of both countries, that we
should be on a footing of profound peace. And, on the
other band, they see the great folly and crime which it
would ce on either side to provoke a war. They must
know th at a war, as far as it would lead to the subjuga-
tion of either country by the other, is an absurdity—that
neither 'country, so great, powerful, and independent,
could in any manner subjugate the other ; and, there-
fore, war must be as useless as cruel, and as inglorious as
absurd. (Hear, hear.)
Viscount CANNING, after making some observations
which were not heard in the gallery, said he would take
the liberty of asking the noble earl to complete his state-
ment as regarded the form and shape in which the as-
surances which he bad referred to had been placed in his
hands, and he also wished to know whether the noble earl
would, either now, or at any future, but not very dis-
tant, tune, lay them before Parliament and the country ?
(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of MALMESBURY did not understand
his noble friend on two points. He appeared first to dis-
approve of something which he (the Earl of Malmesbury)
had st tted—
Vise ount CANNING said it was a feeling which he
had oss3r and over again repeated and constantly main-
tained yin that and the other house of Parliament, and it
was sina-ply this, that in the English Parliament, when,
ever foreign matters were brought under discussion, it
was advisable—and, above all, in the case of a Minister
of the Grown—to abstain from anything approaching to
comment on the conduct of a neighbouring country,
whether it were the people or the ruling authority.
Then, as to the other point, communications between
friendly states assumed different forms ; sometimes they
were iii the form of a dispatch from the ambassador, and
sometimes in the form of a note from the minister of the
com?.try. He wished to know in which of these forms,
r,bifoeeit:Tehasniiehtinyeoit- eu:Ewhledeeaeinrrvbeloielebdadoltbifeh?si
or, if in either form, what form, these assurances had
n
:tUnulirginßafvhrrYeiieesfnmepfrdeea
der felryliej
eet
Iyt
no agreedctohmatm
case,
ans
st;
disagreeable rorloAraedfs eLt aesM manbxa ilpEdreoSws 113 s
oi
ge tlsievmery.
oHfteenwtao;
their lordships, and lie might not have made himself
clearly understood. He rose with the most earnest wish
to say for France and the French all that France and
the French would say for themselves. He did not,
therefore, understand why his noble friend found fault
with his comments. The diplomatic nature of the corn-
munica4.ions which had been made were perfectly official,
and therefore satisfactory to the Government. They
could not be more satisfactory to him than when made
by the French ambassador verbally, and in words re-
peated by the Emperor himself, in his speech to his
Chambers. He thought that was satisfactory enough.
The Marquis of BREADALBANE hoped the changes
which had taken place in France would be attended with
the best results.

BANK NOTES BILL.
On the :motion of the Earl of DERBY, this bill was
read a second time.
Their lordships then adjourned at a quarter past nine
•o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-(YESTERDAY.)

;Continued from our Third Edition of last evening.)

PETITIONS.

Mr. SCOTT presented a petition from Stirling, against
nuuneries.
Sir F. THESIGER presented a petition from a
Sussex newspaper, in favour of the retention of the taxes
on newspaper.
Mr. EWART presented several petitions for the re-
peal of the taxes on knowledge.
Mr. Sergeant SHEE presented a petition against cer-
tain measures introduced by the Irish Attorney-General
respecting tenant right.
Several petitions were presented against the paper
and newspaper stamp duties.

INCOME TAX.

Mr. HUME wished to be definitely informed whe.
ther Government intended the income tax to be a per-
manent or temporary measure. Ho differed with
the opinion of the last speaker, because he
could see no reason for exempting incomes deriv-
able through the funds from payment of the tax.
Such incomes ought to be assessed in the same
proportion as other property, and although Mr. Pitt and
others might have entertained a different opinion, the
time had gone by when the country would tolerate the
injustice of the exemption longer. But they ought
some
once, before they proceeded further, to come to some
decision upon the question of increasing the house tax.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was
still of opinion that the course which he had chalked
out for the house to take was the correct one—and
that it was to go into committee both on the house duty
and the income tax, while with regard to the extension
of the income tax to funded property in Ireland, he ap-
prehended there would be no difficulty in that as far as

the law was concerned. Incomes derivable from the
funds paid the tax in England, and Ireland was only ex-
empted through a clause which had been introduced into
the income tax. Government not only believed that they
were right in law!but that their recommendations
were founded in justice. He should, therefore, be pre-
pared to lay on the table, either to-night or to-morrow,
resolutions based upon the bold financial scheme sha-
dowed forth on Friday. Of course, he could not expect
the house to dispose of all those resolutions at this time
of year ; but Government was quite ready to stand or
fall upon any single one of them. Their policy must be
taken as a whole, and on Friday next they should call
upon the house to decide for or against it in the committee
which would be taken on the tea duties and the house
tax. (Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said he could conceive no graver
matter than that which had just been brought before the
house ; and when the proper time arrived, he should be
prepared fully to discuss it, well knowing the danger of
making any alteration in the principles of taxation
which had been established by several successive
Parliaments. It would be, however, for the Go-
vernment to select which subject they would wish
the house to pronounce upon first, but he thought
before they proceeded to make any reductions in
the taxes the house ought to be called upon to vote
the ways and means by which the deficiency should be
made up.
Mr. GOULBURN took exception to the argument
taken up by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and con-
tended that it would be a violation of the contract which
had been entered into with the public creditor to require
funded property in Ireland to pay income tax. With
respect to the tea duties, there would be no diffi-
culty in dealing with that question in a com-
mittee of the whole house, but with regard to the
other question of increasing the house tax, that could
only be done in a committee of ways and means.
Sir C. WOOD said, the house could proceed to re-
duce the tea duties by way of bill, but the other matter
of the house tax could only be dealt with in Committee
of Ways and Means. He thought, under these cir-
cumstances, the Budget ought to be treated as a whole
on Friday next, though they might single out one
resolution upon which to take the discussion.
Mr. WALPOLE said the Government could not
bring the whole of the resolutions before the house on
Frida,y, but they proposed to take the opinion of the
house on the reduction of the tea duties and the exten-
sion of the house tax, which involved the whole financial
policy of the Government.
Sir 3. V. SHELLEY did not think there was any
necessity for pressing the house-tax to an immediate
decision, as before any reduction of taxation could take
place the re-imposition of the income tax must be
decided on.
Lord JOHN MANNERS said, the deficit in the tea
duties would be about made up by the increase in the
house-tax, and he was at a loss to understand what
objection there could be to taking both questions to-
gether. (Hear, bear.) Doubling the house-tax
would only produce about half a million next
year, while the reduction in the tea-duties would
cause a loss to the revenue of 400,000/. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. HERBERT said what he and his friend ob-
jected to was, they could not consent to reduce
taxes until they had decided upon the question of
the income tax, which was at present one of the main
soursces of the revenue. (Hear, hear.) It was folly
for the house to pledge itself to reduce taxes until they
had decided upon other ways and means, which must
expire in due course, unless some resolution was taken
by the house.
Mr. E. DENISON took the same view of the matter
as the last speaker.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY also thought the imposition
of the house tax, if it were necessary, should form the
end, and not the commencement, of their financial legis

Mr. MACGREGOR said the income tax must be
settled in the first instance, or the finances of the coun-
try would be thrown into a state of confusion and un-
certainty.
The report was then received.
EXCHEQUER BILLS.
Mr. WILLIAMS inquired what was to be the rate of
exchequer bills.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the rate was not yet fixed, but he would announce it as
soon as it was necessary. Since he had been in office it
had only been fixed once, and that was in the month of
May last, when he had reduced it, and thus saved the
country 37,000/. per annum.
SUPPLY.
The order of the day was then read for the house resolv-
ing itself into committee of supply. On the question that
the Speaker do leave the chair,
Mr. HUME said he understood the proposition to be sub-
mitted to the committee included a sum of 435,000/. • viz.,
113,0001. for the navy supplementary estimate 92,0001. for
the ordnance supplementary estimate, 150,0001. for the
National Gallery, and 80,0001. for the expenses attending
the funeral of the Duke of Wellington. He complained
that the recommendations of the committees on the naval
and ordnance services had not been properly carried out, and
said that the manner in which our ships were built, and
afterwards cut down, or otherwise altered, was most dis-
graceful. The time had come when some alteration was
absolutely necessary. Our army and navy cost together be-
tween 12,000,0001. and 13,000,0001. A large portion of that
expenditure was altogether unnecessary, and when no effi-
cient efforts were made to diminish the expenditure in these
departments, it was the duty of the house to pause before it
consented to add anything to the taxation of the country.
(Hear,hear.) Before making any advances, the house ought
to be in possession of the plans of the Government. Within
the last few years upwards of 2,000,000 had been
laid out in fortifications, and other constructions
which were perfectly useless. The house ought to profit
by experience, and not vote away money in this manner.
The committee on naval affairs had decided that 100 ad-
mirals were quite sufficient; but 150 were kept up, and
fresh ones promoted almost every day for no useful purpose
whatever. (Hear, hear.) He believed the navy was never
in a more efficient state than after the right hon. baronet
near him (Sir J. Graham) had reduced the expenditure
nearly 1,000,0001. in one year. (Hear, hear.) Why were
our ships scattered all over the ocean if there was any truth
in the statement that we wore in imminent danger at home ?
He believed that Napoleon 111. would find the strength of
his Government to consist in peace, and that the stability.
of the institutions of that country would be best main-
tained by the encouragement of free trade. (Hear, hear.)
With respect to the grant for the National Gallery, no in-
formation whatever had been laid before the house ; and
until some information was afforded by the right honour-
able gentleman he should object to any grant whatever.
The removal of the pictures to Kensington-gardens, where
they could be of very little use, was under the management
of a particular clique, and he thought the circumstances
altogether very suspicious. He would put it to the house
whether such a grant was called for at the time when they
were asked to double the house tax. (Cheers.) Then with
regard to the expenses of the funeral, before any vote was
taken a full statement of all the expenses incurred ought
to be submitted to the house. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there
was no vote before the house for building a National Gal-
lery. The only vote to be brought forward was for the
purchase of land under rather peculiar circumstances, a
portion of which might certainly be subsequently devoted
to the erection of a National Gallery. But that had no-
thing to do with the question now before the house. When
that vote come on he should take the liberty of laying be-
fore the committee the reasons which had induced •the Go-
vernment to ask the house to vote a sum equal to that
which was to be contributed by the commissioners of the
Great Exhibition for Purposes of great
importance. There was no specific vote for the National
Gallery, and the only object of the vote was the purchase
national interest and
of the land to which he had alluded. With regard to the
funeral of the great man now at rest, he begged
to remind the house of the taunt thrown out that
the expenditure would probably be a quarter of a mil-
lion. It was very desirable to vote the necessary supply at
once, by which means the accounts could be brought to a
close and no inconsiderable amount saved. (Hear, hear.)
A detailed statement would be laid on the table showing
how every shilling had been expended. He certainly had
stated that he should be prepared, on a fitting occasion, to
bring forward the views of the Government on administra-
tive reform ; but, before doing so, it would be necessary to
dispose of these financial measures. It was impossible to
embark in questions of such magnitude and importance
before disposing of the financial measures which he had
submitted to the house. (Hear, hear.) If the house
should be opinion that it was necessary to place the coun-
t/7 in an efficient state of defence, he trusted his hon.
friend the Secretary of the Admiralty would at once be
allowed to proceed with his statement.
The house then resolved itself into committee—Mr. W.
PATTEN in the chair.
Mr. A. STAFFORD said he trusted, after the remarks
of his right hon, friend, he should not be expected to in-
cumber the question now before the committee with any
reference to those reforms, however earnestly they might be
desired, and however essential they might be to the services
of the country, because he considered no time more inoppor-
tune for such discussion than the proposition for a supple-
mentary vote, such as that which he was now about to
propose. In bringing forward this estimate, it was not his
wish to cast any imputation on the Board of Admiralty, or
the gentlemen who had preceded the present Government
in that office. When they adopted the estimates of the
late Government, they did so in no party or unworthy
spirit, believing them to be amply sufficient, and, unless
circumstances had considerably changed, they would not
have changed that opinion. In bringing these estimates
before the house, he admitted the right of the house, gene-
rally speaking, to an explanation as to the objects to which
it was intended to apply them. On the other hand, if he
entered into details, which might be desirable on an esti-
mate at the commencement of the financial year, he might
be led into a discussion extremely inconvenient, and must
therefore decline doing so. He would begin with the ex-
pression of his most earnest desire, in which honourable
gentlemen opposite would all share, for the maintenance
of perfect peace in Europe and throughout the world
(Hear, hear.) He brought forward these estimates
so completely independent of any one particular
power or particular nation, that he would not be led
into the naval estimates of any one country, or refer
to any country that might be supposed to be affected by
them. (Hear, hear.) He brought them forward in the
spirit and in the earnest hope of universal peace. The two
supplementary estimates which he had now to submit to
the committee were, first, 113,000/., for 5,000 additional
seamen and 1,500 marines ; and secondly, 100,0001. for the
necessary expenses of steam machinery for naval purposes.
On looking back to the cost of our steam machinery, it was
impossible to deny that enormous grants had been made
under that head. Let the committee remember the cir-
cumstances under which these sums were granted from year
to year. In the first place, the Government were called
upon to establish a paddle-wheel fleet, and now they were
obliged to provide a screw fleet. It would be found, how-
ever, by any honourable member who took the trouble to
inquire into the matter, that not only in the Govern-
ment establishments, but in every private dockyard,
enormous expenses had been incurred, which could
not possibly be avoided, because it was only by such
an expenditure that the efficiency of the different kinds
of steam vessels could be ascertained. He was sure
that it would not be contended that, when the paddle-
wheel fleet had been built, and it was discovered that a
screw fleet would answer better, we ought to have gone to
no further expense. He believed that the expense which
had been incurrred was not to bo attributed to wilful ex-
travagance, as had been asserted, or to the love of change
on the part of the Admiralty, but to the new inventions
which were perpetually forced upon their notice, and which
imposed upon the Admiralty the necessity of making ez,

periments. It had been his good fortune during the re-
cess, to enjoy a trip to the Mediterranean, where he saw
the evolutions of the Mediterranean fleet, under the com-
mand of Admiral Dundas; and it was impossible for any
one not to perceive, when sailing vessels were compared
with screw steamers, that it was absolutely necessary, un-
less some new mechanical power were discovered, that
screw steamers should be the future of our navy as well as
of our mercantile marine. The paddle-wheel was not only
exposed to the fire of the enemy, but took up so much space
as to interfere with the guns which might be brought to
bear upon an adversary's vessel, and consequently, hence-
forth, we must recognise the combined power of the screw
and sail as the future of our navy. In order that the com-
mittee might have some notion of the comparative expense
of screw steamers and sailing vessels, a paper had
been drawn up, which he would read to the house.
The comparison was drawn between a ninety-gun
sailing vessel and a ninety-gun screw steamer of 500-
horse power, The first cost of the sailing vessel was
108,0031., while the cost of the screw was 151,0001., and
the annual expense of the sailing vessel was 44,350/. while
the screw steamer cost annually 51,6781. In the annual
expense alone, therefore, without saying anything of first
cost, the screw steamer exceeded the sailing vessel by 20
per cent. The hon. gentleman opposite said we must have
retrenchment in our dockyards. He thought it would be
found that the present Government would not be remiss in
that particular in future, and that as regarded the past,
they had not been insensible to the necessity for making
proper reductions ; but, as he had said before, this was not
the time to discuss these matters. All that he wished
the house to be aware of was, that they must look
forward to an expensive future, unless they wished the
British navy to be inferior to those of other countries.
He now came to the question of the number of men.
The Government proposed to ask for 5,000 additional
seamen, and 1,500 marines for four calendar months ;
but in order to make the sum which would be required
as small as possible, the Government would assume
that for the first two months only half the num-
ber of seamen and marines would be raised. At the
same time, he was happy to state that the rumours which
were circulated of the difficulty of getting men to join
her Majesty's ships were highly exaggerated, though the
house must not disguise from itself that at present the Bri-
tish sailor was the most conspicuous article in the market.
The Government had not only to meet the competition of
the mercantile marine and the attractions of the gold re-
gions, but,of every other navy in the world, and therefore
it was absolutely incumbent upon us to do everything that
would promote his comfort, and tempt him to remain in
the naval service. His right hon. friend the Chancellor of
the Exchequer observed, on Friday last, that the seaman
was now often turned adrift just when his services became
most useful ; and in alluding to a committee which had
been engaged in considering this subject, and which had
collected much valuable information, he expressed a hope
that this committee would suggest certain reforms. He .
(Mr. Stafford), however, wished to say that not one of these
5,003 additional men would be asked to join the ships of her
Majesty under any other restriction or condition than those
which were now in force. The honourable and gallant
admiral opposite (Sir G. Pechell) knew that nothing was
more distasteful to the seamen of the royal navy than to be
transferred from one ship to another. Besides, it was neces-
sary to consult not only the comforts of sailors, but their
feelings and fancies. They were a most curious body of
men, and if it once got noised abroad at Portsmouth or
Plymouth that any change in the present regulations was
contemplated, he believed that the Government would not
get 100 men in six months to join the service. With re-
gard to the fleet which the Admiralty proposed to raise,
and which he trusted the house would enable it to raise
without delay, they intended that it should be stationed in
the Channel, cruising, of course, occasionally up and down
for exercise. At the Nore they proposed to place three
frigates and five steamers ; at Plymouth, four sail-of-the-
line and five steamers • and at Portsmouth, five sail-of-the-
line, two frigates, and six large steamers. Considering the
exposed nature of the coast, and not forgetting Osborne and
the hopes and loyal sympathies which often centred there,
he thought this would not be looked upon as too large a
force for the defence of our own shores. At present the
Admiralty had not exceeded the number of men voted,
which was about half a dozen above those actually in the
naval service. So far, therefore, the Government had kept
itself strictly within the limits prescribed, but they felt
that the time had come when the Channel defences must
be placed in an efficient condition, and in doing this the
Government did it with,a fervent prayer for peace, the sin-
cerity of which was evidenced by the conduct of England
ever since the last shot was fired at Waterloo. (Hear,
hear.) The Government did not desire to interfere with
the internal policy of any country, but they wished that
the poorest of the Queen's subjects in the most distant
quarters of the globe should feel that the British flag was
his security and his safety. They felt that we ought to
have a fleet to protect those merchant vessels, which, what-
ever might be said of their superior sailing qualities and
the derision with which they looked down upon men-of-
war, were constantly applying to the Admiralty for
security to the British flag. Lastly, he asked the house
for this additional force in order to prevent any hostile
foot from treading on these shores, or, if such an event
should happen, to insure that the contest should be short
and decisive. The hon. gentleman concluded by moving
an addition of 5,000 seamen and 1,500 marines to the naval
forces of her Majesty.
Mr. HUME had always declared his objections to the
building of more ships than we could employ; and now it
was discovered, after laying out millions of money upon
war steamers, that they would not answer the purpose,
and therefore a new fleet of screw steamers was necessary.
That ought to show us the folly of which we had been
guilty for so many years of keeping up such enormous
establishments. We had been throwing away two
millions yearly upon our dockyards, and he really
thought that it might be a question whether we ought
not to build our ships by contract. He himself should be
disposed to object to all additional votes for the navy
until all the recommendations of the committee upstairs
had been adopted, until our ships had been brought home
from foreign stations, where they were only doing mis-
chief, and until all useless officers had been placed on a
retired list. We continued to keep up the number of 150
admirals, although we did not employ 20 of them. He did
not know whether it would be of much use, but he pro-
tested against the vote altogether.
Lord J. RUSSELL observed that the question before
the gommittee related to the raising of 5,000 additional
seamen and 1,500 marines. That question had no connec-
tion with those to which the hon. member for Montrose
had referred, such as the expenditure in the dock-yards
and the age of the admirals. He conceived that these
topics might be fitly discussed when the naval estimates
came under consideration, and then it would be for the
members of the late and of the present Government
to state their views upon these subjects. But this
was a proposal to raise 5,000 more sailors and 1,500
more marines, and he must say that such a proposal had
his warm assent. (Hear, hear.) He believed that it was
right and necessary to provide a sufficient defence for
this island, which was the citadel of a vast empire, and he
was very glad that her Majesty's Government, having been
persuaded that such a force was necessary, had not shrunk
from proposing it. He believed that so far from its being
an upopular vote, the nation would gladly learn that it had
been carried, and he for one gave it his cordial assent.
(Hear.)
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said, that on many occasions he had
opposed any addition to our naval forces, but in deference
to public opinion he should offer no opposition to this vote.
He trusted, however, that the people would now be satisfied
that the defences of the country were placed on a perfectly
secure footing, and that no further expense would be in-
curred. He suggested that captains of vessels should not
have the power of inflicting corporal punishment without a
court-martial, and that savings banks should be established
in the navy as well as in the army.
Sir G. PECHELL remarked that no one doubted the ne-
cessity of strengthening our defences ; but the hon. gentle-
man the Secretary of the Admiralty had not told the
house what had been done with the money which had
been already voted. Ho believed that at no period of the
history of the navy had it been in better condition than at
present. The Government had asked for 5,000 men, but
the obtaining of those men would very much depend on
the course which the Government might pursue. He be-
believed that the sailors were very much dissatisfied at
present on account of the stoppage of grog, and that was a
very delicate question when sailors were concerned.
Proper steps should be taken to regulate promotion among
them, and they should be given to understand that their
position should not be made worse than that of any other
service in the world.
Mr. STAFFORD said that 38,0001. had certainly been
voted on a late occasion ; but at the same time an under-
standing was given that it should be maintained for the
purpose of a naval reserve. It had not, therefore, been
used at all, nor was it the intention of the present board to
avail themselves of it.
'these 5,000 men now asked
MI In espTl yA tFoFScoi rRGD.
saidP E cEhLa Lt
for were to have their choice of their ship, and when they
had chosen it were not to be removed from it.
Mr. SCOBELL congratulated the house and the country
that at last they were about to take the right means for
our national defence, and he had always held that they had
reason to complain, when they were discussing the ques-
tion of defences last year, that the militia force was put in
advance of recruiting the navy, and using those natural
moans for the safety of the country which Providence had
given us. He was glad the motion before the house seemed
to be cordially accepted on all sides. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MUNTZ rose to call the attention of the house to a
circumstance he had heard that morning with respect to
the ordnance. He understood that her Majesty's Ministry
were going to increase the artillery. at was here suggested
to the honourable member that the appropriate time for
the consideration of this question had not yet arrived,
whereupon he desisted.]
The motion was then agreed to.
The next vote was 100,0001. for the necessary expenses
of steam machinery for naval purposes during the year
ending sth April, 1853.
Mr. STAFFORD explained that the number of men at
present employed, with the additional 5,000 demanded,
would man the fleet and leave a reserve.
Mr. MACGREGOR was of opinion that a thorough re-
form should be introduced into our naval dockyards, and al-
though he acquitted the Admiralty of blame, he was con-
vinced that the people looked with suspicion on the changes
which were ever taking place. He thought that the pre-
sent strength of our naval force, if it were well managed,
was greater than that of the whole of Europe, and that
the proposed increase was therefore unnecessary.
Captain DUNCOMBE stated that the vote was required
for machinery to complete the vessels now in existence,
and that two-thirds of the sum demanded would be spent
amongst the constituents of the hon. gentleman. (Laughter.)
Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT would say that the unani-
mous vote of the house proved the sense of the country on
this matter ; and that however determined the people of
England might bo that their affairs should be managed
with economy, they were prepared to make any sacrifice
in order to put this country, according to the opinions of
the Government, in a perfect state of defence. (Hear,
hear.)

The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote was for 73,9711. to defray the charge of
wages which shall come in course of payment in the four
calendar months ending March 31, 1853, for 700 additional
royal marines to be employed on shore, and for the cloth-
ing and necessaries of the same.

SCOBELL Suggested that it would be worth while
in the Admiralty to allow three or four of our greatest
shipbuilders to build some of the first-class frigates re-
quired, merely giving them the tonnage, and permitting
them to build after their own fashion; for we had certainly
not yet arrived at the perfection of shipbuilding, and our
vessels wero far less swift and had less room than the French
vessels.

The vote was then agreed to.
The vote of 37,9291. for victualling stores for 5,000 addi-
tional seamen and 800 royal marines, for four calendar
months, was next put and agreed to.

ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.
Colonel DUNNE, in moving for these estimates, said
that amongst the defences of the countrinone was mere
important than the artillery, an increase in which was now

asked. The proposition of the Government was, however,
most modest—they would only move for an addition of
2,000 nien and 1,000 horses. Ho might mention that the
only opportunities which they had for drillity, the foot ar-
tillery in field practice were in Woolwich and in Dublin,
and that these being found inefficient, they proposed an
addition of 1,000 horses. The cost of maintaining men
and horses for three months would be about 70,8331. The
next vote was for ammunition 2,7001., and the third item
was for the purchase of new heavy iron ordnance, 8,000/. ;
making the total sum demanded for this branch of the ser-
vice 92,6581.
Mr. MUNTZ complained that the practice ground for
the artillery at Woolwich was perfectly useless, being at
right angles with the Thames, so that considerable delay in
the practice took place, lest the shots should damage the
shipping in the river. He had heard that 60,0001. would
be required for the purchase of ground which would be
available for practice, but ho thought this sum would be
well expended.
Col. DUNNE fully concurred in the statements made by
the hon. gentleman, and intimated that the Government_
had already entered into negotiations for the purchase of
some land at Shoebmyness as a practice ground.
Mr. HUME observed that it was a great reflection on
former Governments that such a state of things should
have continued so long without any endeavour to remedy
the defect. The house had now to thank the hon. gentle-
man Mr. Muntz for having brought the matter forward.
It was disgraceful to the authorities that such a state of
things should exist, and that public money should be so
recklessley squandered. They talked of enjoying the bless-
ings of peace, but they were called upon to .pay all the
expenses incidental to a war.
Mr. WILLIAMS saw no reason for an increase in the
artillery, as they were 2,000 stronger than they had been
for the last 15 years.
Mr. HUME inquired how it was that so large a sum as
101. was named in the estimate for bounty.
Col. DUNNE replied that the actual bounty only
amounted to 51. 15s. 61-3/. was travelling expenses, and
there were other charges included in the 101.
Sir. J. F. SMITH expressed his opinion that the ar-
tillery arm of the service ought to be maintained in a state
of the greatest possible strength and efficiency.
Captain SCOBELL said that at present the strength of
the artillery amounted to about 15,000 men. It was a force
which, above all others, he believed, they ought to keep
in an effective state ; but he was of, opinion that its pre-
sent strength was sufficient. He would be willing to grant
the horses and ammunition asked for, but not the men.
Colonel DUNNE observed that the artillery numbered
at present 12,000 men.
Captain PECHELL begged to suggest that the artillery
guns in store should be either used or sold.
The vote was then agreed to : as was also a vote of 5,1131.
for providing forage for 1,000 horses, and a vote of 2,7001.
for additional labour in making up ammunition.
A sum not exceeding 14,0001. was proposed to be granted
for defraying the expenses of purchasing iron ordnance and
projectiles.
Captain PECHELL objected to this sum as being exces-
sive.

In reply to an observation of Mr. HUME,
Sir J. F. SMITH observed that all the larger ships of
the service were now armed with 10-inch guns. Until re-
cently 8-inch guns had been used, but all naval officers
were of opinion that the larger guns were by far more
serviceable.
The vote was then agreed to.
NATIONAL GALLERY.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said :—I
will take this opportunity of correcting an impression with
regard to the next vote which has been erroneously adop-
ted by the honourable member for Montrose. This is a
vote for a sum of considerable amount, not less than
150,0001., for building a National Gallery. I will explain
to the house the circumstances under which her Majesty's
Government propose this vote. There is no doubt that the
time is now come when we :-..ust study more the industrial
education of the people of this country, and we must
bring the influences of science and art to bear upon pro-
duction more than they have prevailed until the present
time. (Hear.) A great revolution had taken place in
those circumstances which gave superiority in manu-
factures. (Hear.) Hitherto this country has exercised a
very great supremacy by its command over the raw mate-
rial. But daily the raw material becomes more equalized
in price from the new system of locomotion. It is im-
possible any longer to sustain the supremacy of our manu-
factures by merely having the supreme command over the
raw material, and the intellectual element is becoming one
of tho most important elements of competition. (Hear,
hear.) This was felt very much during the Great Exhibi-
tion, and I believe I may say it was the result which was
arrived at by those who on that occasion exercised with
impartiality the office of examining the productions of all
countries. They arrived at this result, which it was un-
necessary at that time ostentatiously to announce, that if
we wished to maintain our superiority in the art of pro-
duction, we must remember that the intellectual element
must be more studied and cultivated than heretofore.
(Hoar, hear, hear.) It was found that in many countries
there was a superiority in science, and that from scientific
agencies there was a power of competition with us, who
had only a superior power over the raw material to
support our industw, which showed that the time
had arrived when we must consider about increasing
the means of maintaining our superiority. (Hear, hear.)
Now, sir, in all the countries of Europe this great want has
long been recognised. There is not a town of any eminence
in which there is not a school, in which the influence of
science and art is not brought to bear upon most produc-
tions, and there is not a capital in Europe in which there
is not an industrial university. (Hear.) Now, there has
been no deficiency of means or of feeling in this country for
many years. It is a very curious fact that, although we have
not succeeded in bringing to bear the influence of art and
science upon manufacturing skill with any effect, still, if we
count the number of institutions which are devoted in this
great metropolis to the cultivation of art and science, and
the amount of money that is expended for maintaining
them, by voluntary contributions, we shall find that
they exhibit a sum of not fewer than one hundred in
number, which aro maintained at an annual cost of
about 160,0001. The nation also contributes -a sum of
nearly 100,0001. in support of considerable institutions,
such as the British Museum and the National Gallery,
which, added together, make up a sum of about a quarter
of a million annually expended for the very purposes which
unfortunately have never been effected. (Hear, hear.)
The question has naturally arisen why, with such indica-
tions of the wish of the people to cultivate art and science,
shown and proved by their readiness to expend annually
such a large sum of money, still any systematic attempt
to bring to bear the influence of science and art upon
manufacturing industry has never been carried into effect.
The result of the experience of the Great Exhibition, and
the result of what has taken place in other countries, was
a conviction entertained not only by many men of philoso-
phic mind, but also by many men of practical sense, that
the time had come when it was necessary that a certain
great effort should be made, and that the influence of
science and art upon productions should be brought
more systematically to bear. The attention of the
Royal Commissioners was attracted to the subject—
and here permit me to observe how deeply indebted
the people of this country are to his Royal Highness
Prince Albert for his unceasing solicitude for the promotion
of art in all its branches. (Hear, hear.) The Royal Com-
missioners found themselves, after a termination of the
Great Exhibition, in the possession of a surplus of not less
than 150,000/. ; besides that they had as a contribution
from the exhibitors from foreign states what served as the
foundation of an extraordinary museum, the value of
which is now not less than 9,0001. The commissioners,
therefore, being more conscious than any other body of men
in this country of our great deficiency in these'respects,
and of the absolute necessity of making some effort, began
to consider whether the opportunity had not arrived, when
they might probably give some great impulse to the na-
tional feeling, and propose to lay the foundation of that
complete industrial education of which we are in need.
They had to consider what was the reason that in this
country, where we should have supposed there existed so
many facilities for developing such an education, we have
hitherto been so unsuccessful and without any satisfactory
results_in that respect. And they found, after due con-
sideration, that it was to be attributed mainly to two
causes—to want of system, and to want of space—(hear,
hear)—and I think it may be really said that to the latter
cause the first ought to be attributed. We have a
number of institutions scattered over this great metropolis,
in none of which can the objects of those institutions be
sufficiently or satisfactorily developed from want of space.
And while from this cause they. cannot fulfil satisfactorily
the object for which they were instituted, their being scat-
tered in different positions prevents any united exertion,
by which their concentrated efforts might be brought to
bear. If you examine some of the principal institutions,
both those founded by individuals and those supported by
the nation, you will find always one complaint. If you go
to the Royal Society, for example, you will find that for
many years there has been a constant appeal to grant them
more accommodation, and more room for the fulfilment of
the objects which they have in view. If you go to the
Royal Academy, you will find that during four of the
summer months, a time most favourable to students, the
schools are obliged to be closed on account of the prepara-
tions for the annual exhibitions. (Hear.) I need not re-
mind honourable gentlemen of the state of the British Mu-
seum at this moment. I had the honour to-day of attend-
ing at and receiving a deputation, and that deputation laid
before us facts which are probably notorious to honour-
able gentlemen in this house, though perhaps they are not
so much impressed with them as we were ; but the fact
is, that, at this moment, we have not room in the British
Museum, which is in fact a collection of works upon all
subjects, for one single branch of literature, or science, or
art. (Hear, hear.) The library of the British Museum is
now increasing at the rate of 16,000 volumes a year, and
in less than 30 years the collection, which now nearly
amounts to 500,000 volumes, will be doubled. It is abso-
lutely necessary that we should find accommodation for
that, for if we once cease to increase the national library,
links will be wanting in the chain which will never be sup-
plied. (Hear, hear.) We have collections of art and science at this moment stowed in cellars, and schools of de-
sign are obliged to meet in different places and under dif-
ferent roofs. If you go to the National Gallery, you will
find the collection of pictures, which is not so rich as it
might be, because there is no proper receptacle for contibu-
tions absolutely stowed in different buildings, instead of be-
ing under the same roof, and forming a complete school ofart
which, by affording means of tracing the different schools and
different ages, might supplya test of our advancement in the
present age. The Royal Commissioners, being sensible of
all this, thought that the time had come when some effort
must be made to concentrate all these scattered energies
for the great object of industrial education. (Hear, hear.)
They considered that they should establish one systematic
arrangement, and for this pm-pose, that they should or-
come the groat deficiency arising from the want of,ina
suffi-
cient space. With this view they have purchase.d
spot I think eminently suited for the object, a considerable
portion of land very near that spot where the
Palace originally rose. They have expended the sum of
money which remained as a surplus of the contributions of
the Exhibition, and they appealed to her Majesty's Go-
vernment whether they would recommend to Parliament
that the State should contribute an equal sum to that
which they thus expended for this object. The house would
recollect that this was the last opportunity for
all
orobtaining
that, the want of which has hitherto. made our at-
tempts for bringing art and science to bear upon the
education of the people nugatory,—namely, the want
of
in this rapidly-increasing city for obtaining a spot
where there is so large a space for the development of the
purposes we have in view. If the House of Commons will
agree to contribute an equal sum, making together 300,000/.,
we should then be in possession of a space of land which
would allow us to bring to bear the united influence of
science and art through all their fortns and combinations,

ete
which would be the means of affording a Col3l-el
blisg
trial education to the people of this country, - -0111
to meet the increased competition to which the
posed. Part of this space is intended for the erec.e_t
National Gallery. But this is not the only 0b,),,,c‘0
the Commissioners have set before themselves. 1,01,
that there should be a great commercial museunit
may be found specimens of all the raw produce of u-1`1..L
They wish that that should be followed by a rePetiesi-e
all the machinery which the ingenuity of man has
to st;
or can devise. So that the machinery win'. --ther
facture the raw produce and convert it into °
may be studied by the people, and that they,., Zr, bee,
that study a stimulus for their invention. V„1-01;
After the machinery we wish to have another aerjpon,,,
in which will be seen the result of the machineLS, of .v
raw produce. The National Gallery and the Onlise
and Sculpture will form the fourth division in hod:,
scheme of industrial education.- (Hear.) Siv,,nrstLiti
if the committee will assent to the proposal ivele 0
that we shall do more than that which I telbsvesl,,
sketched. Besides the four divisions to which the ler
verted—that of the raw material the machinerhAi ot'j
facture, and the art which inspires (them—we ieeP`
come a difficulty experienced in this country (#.o:foi
societies, viz., the inability to confer toget,.'!ecit si+o,,l
Societies like the Royal Society, so long 3
of sen,.
with steadfast brilliancy ever since the days sosoefsi
have all experienced the difficulty which is e°oolooo
ble of removal for the first time. Almost all is odor
societies in the kingdom will feel that there tjto
opportunity afforded to them of assembling on
_00,i111:0.
spot ; and we look forward to the time when
science and art, and all the learned societies 111;„ace.l'i':
try, forming an accumulated radiance of inte7t 0f
spiring not only the metropolis, but everYl be doy
United Kingdom. (Hear, hear.) This is rasa that
by any forced means. All we recommend is depaso
should be afforded, because on space systeni,
(hear, hear)—and that when space is afford nett!:
should allow the plan proposed to be fairly devrsrsst%
I do not know that I can say any more upon t notsry
I only wish it to be clearly understood that it is
rierelf
sum of money which the house is called to v°t;erslitici)
the purpose of emulating an equal amount of
do not know whether.many have read the relw' 0)1'a;
addressed to one of her Majesty's Ministers, but 40
yb
is something touching in the shillings of the in%o
the foundation for the great movement of educa'of
must raise the character and elevate the ,nl° o,e 110
country. (Hear hear.) I think it issa ,t,„tlls'
which I am making to the committee, and
house will agree to the vote which I now Propq 100
sum of 150,0001. be granted for the purchase
Kensington. (Hear.) •id
Lord SEYMOUR said that we had been 0)211of
we were superior to all other countries ',
i,j3W,JO
factures and arts, and having had the tAegef(o
W°that Exhibition, we had seen that unless r
we shall be left behind hand in the race, 110 e 0 Ifl/
cordially agreed that something should be "1°-
mote the industrial education of the Pe°P- 01' a 1
and so far they ought to feel grateful to the co 116
for their generous gift. For his part, howevery
be f
some difficulties in the way before the report c°-004fr
carried out. For instance, there were societies,or3loo
spent 160,0001. a year for the maintenance of t' tY 1
eat societies. Now, if they could all be broug,hi, oot,7,ftt
spot, it would be very well, but the report "1-`:,51.
that these societies would consent to such rem°,
as he could ascertain, he understood that 0:11.00'
objected to being removed to Kensington, a.6_ thoill'se
tanco from town would be very inconvenient w osery
thought that, with regard to those commercial /j 1 I,ef
for t
those museums for the raw produce, as well al3
play of machinery and manufactured articles, Thel,to
would have to be built with public moneY.
therefore entering into a very large scale of ~ expo,
and the house should be aware of the extent of to- be
As yet there was no plan or map of the proPertlf tli h`
chased. This ought to be laid upon the table cif coves
before any sum was expended. If the House 0„,.,it xl,
gave this money he would like to know in
be vested. All these things should be clearlY";tioo
for it was necessary that the house should be c 3
should proceed with some regard to economY.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he was one 0, to
commissioners, but he was afraid that the infer'-vsorliv
could place at the disposal of the house would lesti'o
perfect indeed. Much depended upon her gel coos
vernment, and it was upon their assistance th e Ile)0
sioners should rely. The commissioners we,„ or
anxious that there should be some institun,
foundation of an institution which might Pe*:
benefits derived from the Great Exhibition al lie VI
was thought right not to allow those benefits to iisb 4
tory ; and nothing seemed more likely to o°l ozie?),
object proposed than by giving the advantage ° 000
and art to the industry of the country. .verYoori c:
b
observed the Exhibition with care must have
_0,4
.' 0.
winced that, as it is stated in the report, from -eno
there will be a greater competition in works °!,:ll°.‘"lirt.
than there was heretofore, and that that conilletitol; the
quire greater attention to the intellectual part (14';.
nufacture than has been formerly bestowed' f rya
hear.) Looking at the subject in another point -00
they had been slow in appropriating large 0001'
scientific purposes. (Hear, hear.) No one call ;keel
notwithstanding tho sums voted for the BritishLgioSJ
that many years can elapse before some "ec
specting that institution must be arrived 9t.
34102
ought to have a great national library. They
.11, the
a great number of books, and he did not thila‘i. 004
sufficient for them and the other treasures whi" th d 01+
of natural history. If they had a sufficient site,
erect other buildings suitable to these treasiireve„ii
was the general object which the commissioners rgleill'to
to themselves. Now he had no doubt if thesewAot
were to be purchased very large sums of money dgele?
contributed, which would enable them to erect ;"-,eoo,
buildings. He thought that the collection of DiO, of pN
and the chemical lectures, together with the disPrirl'eb";
chinery, would form an object of great manufaebl,, ijv
terest, and which it would be well worth the wil"'"•ol3,'‘,
country to possess. He had known one instance sv"- o'"if
illustrative of what he said—a building erected onlieo,
years ago. The Museum of Economic Geology 11/0/6„,14
been of the greatest use in enabling persons to 0010',,r
formation which they otherwise could not obtain. tbo
1101
the plan was at present imperfect, he trusted that be
rit of the commissioners and the disposition of thesoclty
would lead to the establishment of an institution,,,e °co,
he had described. His noble friend stated that,selogieto
scientific societies would be unwilling to go to -rlere''',o,
That might be very possible ; at the same time 1'11001,4
frequent petitions sent intd the Treasury by °C'+ept
cieties, praying for assistance, and complaining " te
they were enabled to obtain rooms at a cheaper O 's;e,ll
would be forced to dissolve their societies. In the •
stances theywould beglad to have rooms allocated ell
On the whole, he could not but believe this was pelf
mencement of a great improvement, and he was prig of
to think that, under the guidance of the illustri°
who had already rendered such great service to tP„et frt
industry and education, that it would arrive
,b„4
porous conclusion.
Writ?
Mr. HUME was very anxious to promote e Lie
which would lead to the advancement of seien,r; s i6„,0)
but it appeared to him that there' were diffieuly,po
way of this scheme which the noble lord (Longsd 414,0
who had lately spoken had pointed out. For :;tffe'a.
thought, and he had already stated, that thing
money could not be better applied than in convertoN p i
te`
sington Palace into an institution of the Bort ,nd >
posed. He had an objection to public money be 10,939
away before they knew whether the spot they thos'
secure was the spot best adapted for the purpose! /.00',:
in view. He had heard that it was intended toe's l'ept
the National Gallery to Kensington, where it wn° lo'er
be visited by one out of the ten persons who ,e.,-,,t06.0
there. He doubted whether the pictures would Pi-ree:3o
more injury from removal than they possibly cotey
from the impurity of the atmosphere to which t
now subjected.
t. I t°
Mr. DRUMMOND said that, as far as relae`et.sir 130
public advantage of giving every person the ad-1,00,',i0
educating himself in the principles of art and se.i tle,"iter
had no doubt that the British Museum in all orli6'l4
was unequal to the task. But the question wa6ePio.
or not they were embarked in a foolish attempt leel't
in the people of this country a taste for high art
ture had denied them. (Laughter.) He believie bo
was as absurd an attempt nationally, as it woul4",,,ioter:tr,
vidually, to make the same man a sculptor, a P',corl.l
musician, a poet, an orator, a statesman, and ,3 lie{y
They all knew that was impossible, for there en°01:0
division of labour in everything. To attempt to .004,,c,
people of this country appreciate or like high art; lop
absurd as to make an Italian like beef-steaks erlet(j. Wits'
The late Exhibition gave the people a very use' f 016;10
They never did excel in the highest department,
facture ; for instance, at no time have they attaall;tW;l
perfection of working in iron which they havetiEttl,
abroad. Those altar screens which are so beau- rth.
which may be seen in perfection in the 11°,,,
all made of stone or wood. In Spain, they %he
of iron, and they are made as
...well, and 101"
tist's name is known just as familiarly as ‘'ilY ,
°-14'
ing is known in this country to be a Corlefbe s,`)o(
Raphael. But you never attain to anything °l4.
At present your cloth-manufacturer is inferior t 0 ifprof
the continent. You have never been able to silt` osee
terns for the cotton printing press ; and n° jt
your great painters knew how to draw. (Laughter')r Y.6-t1.4
well-known fact, that Sir Joshua Reynolds ney'lli
how to draw. It is equally notorious that Sirli 0000
Lawrence never did either. (Hear, hear.) You win ottsi
difficult to get a person in this country to take auto ivies
drawing of a great painting. Well, you are Pine jolly
a taste for these things, Only go into your own 0pt",,0
and look at your own frescoes, and see what you are 4
of achieving. Go there and regale yourselves Yyter,)
11
specimens of British art and British taste. (Laugn.
was now proposed to purchase 70,0001. worth of lalleroceitl°o
they remember that 2,500,0001. was spent in the
od
of that palace in which they were assembled, .3, ien
room, par excellence, which ought to be the chic:"oo:l'4
whole building, was not large enough to contain la „t, ooei
was impossible to be heard in it when it was bno 0
they were frozen out of it in the winter. TheY,Wreo it``f
embarking upon a sea, and they did not know when
to end. There was only one thing which the P 104'4
this country did appreciate, and that was laTti,
scenery ; but foreigners showed their perfection
and he could say—
,' That which with them is always goat,
With us is only gout." (Laughter.)
Mr. EWART contended that this would be a "e" mile`
vestment, for the land now bought at the Price air
would presently reach a higher one in the market.,
derstood that drawing formed part of the system 0'
eib-rnia°;
Lion in our national schools, and he believed, if th
rec ,
of the people were only educated, they would aPP
works of art as well as the inhabitants of any other e° f the
in the world. He did not despair of the proll°eiti°olll of
commissioners being brought to a happy consul,' ant vote'
and he should be quite ready to support the Presell
(Hear, hear.) Cher
Mr. C. BERKELEY expressed a hope that tliinetieoeeelf
color of the Exchequer would use his powerful, art ue
to prevent the spoliation of the splendid works ei
going on in the National Gallery. (Hear, hear.) until
Mr. SPOONER could not consent to give his silo w°lo
he know to whom the land would be conveyed, w
Put
have the control of the land, and for what Put sod i
land would be employed when they had P„.ar_bee oreete,;l
They were told the new National Gallery was +l(' uestionio.
on it, but he submitted there would be somes.L, so
the expediency of removing the National G +u,e`J
from the centre of the metropolis. (Hear, lielsPsaid °el;
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQI/%, nog 11!'lle
was no proposition before the house to build
aa4er.
tional gallery, or to raise any other edifice Wielybf,euldoe
oal
proposition before the house was whether:
tcriombumteisasnioenqoursatlosumthe wilthchtahasetoalfrsoearadoyaciadwltc)a' iv-a 0