The Sun.
London, England, 1852-02-17 00:00:00

In the
present year not more than 30,000 men would he
required, and the expenses altogether would be wider
200,000/., but a larger sure wcu d be taken in order to meet
contingeecies. Piects word be exempted where there
was a large police force drilled and armed, &ad
where volunteer corps had been formed.—(Hear; hear.)
In answer to Mr. REYNOLDS,
_ Lord J. RUSSELL said he meant to bring in one Bill
for England and Wales; another Bill would be required
for Scotland. He did not mean to raise a local militie
iu Ireland.
Mr. REYNOLDS did not know whether the exemp-
tion of Ireland was intended as a boon or a compliment.
--(Laughter.) He could not certainly accept it as a
Compliment; and certainly if there were need of a local
Militia in England, there was still greater need in Ire-
land, where the coasts were more exposed to danger.
In answer to a question from Sir J. PAKINGTON,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the militia of each
county would not be moved from its own county ex-
cept by its own consent, or in case of a foreign invasion.
Mr. HUME had heard the statement of the Noble
Lord with great regret. lie saw no reason for any
augmentation of the military force, and if there was
to be any increase, he thought it would be more
advantageous to increase the regular army.—(Hear.)
lie thought it would bo morally nod physically injurious
to the people, dragging them from their home and em-
ployment and engendering in them military habits and
ideas. The idea was that we were to have a militia in order
that the regular troops might be ready to be sent out of
the country. But where were they to be sent to? Did
any one fancy that a British soldier would ever again
be seen on the continent as an aggressor.
Certainly not, and he thought that this was ths
first step of a return to that system which had plunged
the country into an enormous deb.. He should certainly
oppose the proposition to every extent in his power, and
he would give them notice that at a future stage he
should move that every man called out for the militia
should ever after be entitled to the suffrage.
Colonel THOMPSON could not help thinking that
the country would be too glad to see the Government
doing anything to be ready, not for what sensible and
intelligent men should do, but for the attempts of hot-
beaded and rash men. He saw by the public journals
that the general officers of the French army had re-
ceived orders to hold themselves, both materiel and per-
sonnel, ready by the 22d inst. He supposed the order
had reference to the present Ruler of France declaring
himself Emperor. He might call himself Emperor or
Mamamouchi if he chose, but if ho was master of his
trade he would go on until he was stopped; and seeing
the hostile designs he was said to entertain against
Belgium there was enough to couvince the country of
the propriety of being prepared for any contingency.
Colonel SIBTHORP said that last year when everybody
thought
of nothing else but the Great Exhibition—
(Laughter)—the Freneh Government and ours were " hail
tallow well met," and French visitors to this country, whe-
ther military or civilian, were allowed to enter and inspect
the dockyards, the Tower, and all the arsenals. Nothing
was spoken of then but reform and retrenchment; now they
were told it was necessary to be prepared for hostilities, and
they were to have a force created which was to add to the
influence of the Government and heavily increase the taxa-
tion or the country. From the low tone of voice in which
the Noble Lord spoke he had found it impossible to learn
the whole of the provisions of the plan, 'and certainly the
Manner and tone in which it was brought forward threw
great suspicion over the scheme. The old militia might be
called out at a less expense, acd would constitute a more
efficient force.
Sir H. VERNEY bore testimony to the orderly character
of disciplined bodies of men generally, and, as an instance,
Mentioned that he knew a regiment ich, at its own ex-
pense, supported a library of 6,000 or 7,000 _volumes. He
could not, however, believe that a force could be made effi-
cient by a fortnight's or a month's training in the year. He
could have wished the Noble Lord had taken the present
occasion of considering the military force, so as to make it
More attractive to the working classes. He should wish
the militia to be made a connecting link between the work-
ing classes and the army, so as to recruit the latter from the
Militia and the militia from the working classes. At all
"eats, he believed it necessary to organize a local force, not
for aggression, but for defence, and nothing could be done in
that respect more economically than by creating a local
Militia. If the Government was remiss on that subject, and
If any disaster happened to the country from such remiss-
ness, the Government would be handed down to posterity
with execration. He (Sir H. V.), in conclusion, expressed
ale belief that the people of England would not refuse the
se,?;l3euse, as an assurance for the maintenance of all prospe-
"sY--namely, the security of the country.
alr. M. O'CONNELL hoped the Noble Lord would re-
consider the question of extending the measure to Ireland.
4.10 could not see why Ireland should be left unprotectedany
More than England. In the county which he represented—
/14Tel, peaceful county—the whole coast line from Bantry
aY to the Shannon was pierced with harbours, wherein
an enemy might put without hindrance, seeing that there
Were only the county constabulary force, and a few coast-
guard men, some 500 or 600 in number, to resist them. He
asked, therefore, that justice should be done to Ireland, more
ZPaecially as the French had twice succeeded in landing in
t country on former occasions.
, Mr. COBDE said the Hon. Member (Sir H. Verney)
.%ad asked whether the people of England would not pay an
ineerance for the preservation of all they possessed? He
Yr• Cobden) had no hesitation in saying that they would—
it was neceseary. The question at issue, however, was not
whether an insurance should be paid by the people of Eng •
land, bu
t whether they had not already paid one ; whether
amply
were not insured enough ? It was like a man being
7uPly insured in the Phoenix having it proposed to him to
Mstired?
insure besides in the Royal Exchange. The question for the
People of England to ask was, whether they were not amply
He maintained they were. It was the custom to
then
or pretend to ignore the amount of money spent on
"le sources of national defence in this country. The
'lleelleation was, whether, with the money that had
ospent, ample provision had been made
againstwas
aggression ; whether, in short, a due use
made of the forces which the country possessed ? This
brought
him (Mr. Cobden) to the amount of the whole
vote for the navy since the close of the war—a period of 37
.eare. How much did the House think it was? No less
_Tan 250 millions of money. But as that period might be
rected to as including too much time, he would take the
How
ten years—ten years being the average life of a ship.
rill did the account stand on this case? This country had
ofPring
.at time paid, for the wages of artificers in making and
re
ships of war for the use of the naval service. a sum
mat'800,0001.,• it had constructionaidll34ooooa tor the articles and
and e.rials used in the and repair of such ships;
,o..it had paid 3,000,0001. more for repairs and improve-
Zs in the several dockyards. What would a private ship-
yearuser say, if after laying out a sum of 23,000,000/. in ten
a loud cry was raised at the end of that time that the
sfleet was in a state of inefficiency—that there were no ships
n.. 10 sue--and that the country should apply to a foreign
extraneous service for its defence against possible in-
Mau lit He (Mr. Cobden) maintained that England was
whosecure as far as the cost went. But what was
wile° with the ships? He heard much talk of invasion; but
mein
were the fleets? One squadron was up to the present
ea'unten the Tagus—he understood it was now ordered home.
waLn Mediterranean, however, how many large vessels of
think t° say nothing of the smaller craft—did the House
try? were sunning themselves 1,200 miles from this coon-
He Would read the list. There were the
Albion Guns. Guns.
...... .. 91 Bellerophon 78
oneueeeTa 'gable 5O Phoenix
-yen
.....
geanee
it,utlahlei:t did not, as he said, include smaller vessels. Was
ineastearbre, the conduct of rational people to raise a cry of
While trhis, accompanied by a demand for a militia force,
far tees elf' ships, the natural defence of the country, were so
the
from home, doing nothing? But to say nothing of
the e salPa, the number of ships of war in commission, in
suffi-
cient various naval ports and harbours of England, was suffi-
rto avert any liability to invasions, or at least to prevent
rate from being frightened unnecessarily on that point,.
re, 84
re were is Sheerness the London, 92 guns; the Water-
loo
eh' 120; the Neptune, 120; the Rodney, 102 ; the Man-
; the Blenheim, 98, and others. In Chatham
Man-
there re were also several large ships. In Portsmouth there
others,
erthe Victory and the Excellent. In Devonport there were
s' including the Impregnable; and in Milford Haven
there
were more. In fact, there were ten line-of-
battlebours ofsips and four frigates lying in the har-
boursEngland, rotting in their waters, doing.
nothing. This
steamers able, ~,,h°,uutrY had paid for a large force of
OcteasiOn reatesedrnsr" course, would be forthcoming when
in the West Indies andller° were line.of-battle ships besides
use a line of battle ship in the East Indies; though what
atiiticaould be in Jamaica, or what use
wag made of a line of b
. Cobden) could not tell. enedlleieP in the East Indies, he (Mr.
,show that for many years a nea,d'of.he challenged any one to
bvtle ship in either place
Was ever called into reeuisition.
b,eard of attacks on the pirates of the hey
had of course, all
a late
aatstern seas, and Par-
persons alleged to bee occasion for the
Influent had paid head-money en
taghter of 5,000
single line-of-battle ship employed against
-17.2a0t been a pirates but there
the bloody work
tali —l, a", To keep line-of-battle shi
ttal'ate pirates, and all
Os, theretreel done by
e -arbours of Jamaica, of Singapore, or liongieiTeinge,in
coerely an idle show and a monstrous waste of money,-'fir
untry
afraid of any attack upon her colonies. The
argument in
not
tof the present demand was that inva-
aie wit in sapper
was imminent, because England was so near France;
Whereas the colonies were 4,000 miles distant from a bucca-
neering ea • •Pedition If there were any danger, cense_
hntlY the first thing that should qe.
be clone was to order
e
; idle anduseless
'bare those large vessels now lying lf
Nvhere they were The Noble Lord put him a_ po.
Bitiea oi ant • to his speech at the opening of the
agonism
latter occasion that
the "•The Noble Lord said on time
had taken great
new
spa Per press of this country
that this person
had Cliberties with the President of France ; but
the news-
- PaPer
wed in England himself, and knowing that
licentious, he
Irene, Press was free, and might therefore be lice
the
owed not take it for granted that the opinions of
oirsPe.pers were the opinions of the people of • England. He
nee; Cobden), however, felt bound to say that the move-
„t made 'on
path ade by the Noble Lord that night—the proposition
the 3' him, was ten times more menacing to France and to
the Person who governed it than all that had been said by
thisnewsPapers, even though the Noble Lord did not on
laecasion speak in the voice of the people of England.
tee Noble Lord •
it was true, stated that the force in ques-
h, 0 would not be employed except in case of invasion. but
bas,eiginating an elastic force of 80,000 men, capable of
neigeg expanded into 150,000, the Noble Lord did far more
PreeeitEbe press, wh;ch he took upon himself to lecture, to
ctee' e the President and to imitate the French people.--
infers hear.) But the Noble Lord, nevertheless, had not
Government
the House of anything to show that the French
clinsvernment of the present day was not as peacefully in-
-. towards England tant as the Noble Leader of the Opposi-
had rated it to be in the other House of Parliament; nor
henruereatone anything to remove from the public mind the
peatfie°3;on made by the Queen's Speech as regarded such
intentions on the part of France—an impression
'en had ratio
prono
doubtPropeaO they would go down when the Noble Lord's
wee itr)leil should be made public. The Noble Lord
Prance and to show why there was more danger from
Lord now than there was in l 84e, when the Noble
waherepwrnPosed to call out the militia, but ultimately
1.1°151e Lordlhat proposition. On that occasion (184 e) the
the fact adduced as one reason for the course he proposed
pefteerti, that the IC
King of the French, during his long and
and to:
_re.ign, had nearly doubled the number of ships
these 'ee in the Fe s
was n ench navy. On the present occasion
Such ws 0 attempt made by the Noble Lord to show that
saw ea the ease
,_ In the French ne
• On the contrary, he (Mr. Cobden)
'ewe(' to be printed_ On the
at least, as were al-
several ships of the —at
there was a talk of laying up
te°_,,uhl be taken for Milnavy Of course that statement
_eine, and as certainlyw the
was worth ; but it was certainly
ininsentation. Anothere Noble Lord had said nothing of
.14 IS4B Wan that r argument d b the Noble Lord
lance then use
y 00 on foot 2100 ,00 of Na"