The Sun.
London, England, 1864-06-11 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS—Last Evening,
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.

COUNTY COURTS BILL.

The Earl of DERBY presented petitions from places in
Lancashire against this bill.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Earl of Abergavenny Cathridral
Economy Fund—Downs Dock—London and Brighto a and
South Coast Railway (new line Battersea)—and Brighton
and South Coast Railway (Steamboats)—Rammell'o. Patent
Clyde Navigation Metropolitan Railway (A dditional
Powers)—Metropolitan Railway (Notting-hill Extension)
—Alton, Alresford, and Winchester Railway bills were
read a second time.
The Befast Central Railway—Manchester, Sheffield, and
Lincolnshire Railway—Tendring Hundreds--Ribblesdale
Railway—Edinburgh and Glasgow and Alloa Railway
Companies—Okehampton Railway—North and South
Western Junction—Stockton and Middlesborough Water
—Nottingham Gas, and Lancaster Board of Health bills
were read a third time and passed.
THE QUEEN'S MESSAGE.
Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY said owing to the
noble earl, the President of the Council, and the noble duke,
the First Lord of the Admiralty, not having returned from
Windsor, he begged to move the postponement of the con-
sideration of the first order of the day—viz., her Majesty's
message with respect to the pension to the Countess of
Elgin, and the grant to Sir R. Hill, until Monday next,
The motion was agreed to.
CHAIN CABLES AND ANCHORS BILL.

The Earl of HARD WICKE moved the second reading
of this bill.
Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY said he entirely
approved of the bill, which would prove exceed..
ingly useful in tending to diminish the great loss of ves-
sels in the mercantile marine in consequence of the use
of defective chain cables. With regard to the exemption
of the Admiralty from the provisions of the bill he could
only say that every chain cable after it was received from
the contractor was properly tested before it was put on board
one of her Majesty's ships,
The bill was read a second time,
INSANE PRISONERS' AMENDMENT BILL.
The report of amendments to this bill was brought up
and received.
CHIMNEY BTVEZP.ER3' BEGCT.GA.TIOX BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
COURT OF JUSTICIARY (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
GREENWIUH HOSPITAL.
The Earl of HARDWICKE called attention to the letter
of Sir Richard Bromley to the Duke of Somerset on the re-
form of the government of Greenwich Hospital. The noble
earl said there was an institution in the country which was
much cherished by the whole nation, and when it was
Pointed out to foreigners, they were told it was England's
gratitude to her worn-out seamen. This institution was,
as far as money went, exceedingly wealthy, as it possessed
an estate of nearly five millions. This charity, he said,
was sick, and had been so for years, and the malady with
which it was afflicted was known as the house divided
against itself. Public attention had been called
to this state of matters by the publication of a
letter by Sir Richard Bromley to the First Lord of the Ad-
miralty respecting a reform in the management of the
charity. The gallant writer said that until unanimity pre-
vailed in the council, a state of matters detrimental to
England's worn-out defenders would prevail, and
that could only be done by able men being placed at the
head of the government of the institution. Ile hoped the
noble lord would inform the public what was intended to
be done for the future.
The Duke of SOMERSET said he shared in the great
desire that the funds of Greenwich Hospital should be
properly expended. He did not think that it was well to
draw men in middle life away from their families, and
crowd them together in a monastic sort of building at
Greewich. He did not propose therefore to build model
lodging houses for;marr ied seamen, as the commissioners
proposed, or to take other measures which they suggested
for attracting and concentrating men at Greenwich, lie
believed it would be much better to confine the hospital to
its original purpose of receiving disabled and helpless sea-
men. He would also retain the naval schcols in connec-
tion with the hospital, which had worked so well of recent
years. He proposed to keep a part of the hospital, so that
in case of a great war we might not be without an: hos-
pital for our seamen. As to the rest of the building he
desired to take some further time to consider what would
be the best way to nee it. By this means he should find
himself in possession of an income over and above that re-
quired for keeping up the hospital to the extent, for the
purposes he had described, of £70,000 or £BO,OOO, which he
believed would be far more usefully employed in the grant
of pensions on which seamen might live in their native
towns, and amongst their own friends, than in keeping
them together at Greenwich, where they all said they did
not wish to be. By this means moreover, wa should be
able to encourage and reward the beat and most respect-
able class of our seamen, who did not receive any benefit
from Greenwich Hospital, which they were strongly dis-
inclined to enter. He also proposed to abolish the present
double government of the hospital, and vest in a single
board.

Lord COLCHESTER said that tho statement of the
noble duke was highly satisfactory.

After a few words from the Earl of SHREWSBURY and
the Earl of HARDWICK;

The Earl of DERBY asked if it was intended to divert
a certain part of the funds of the hospital to the reward
of men who had deserved well of their country. This
might be a very desirable object in itself, but he did not
think it was consistent with the charter of the hospital
under which it was endowed for the benefit of sick and
disabled seamen.

The Duke of SOMERSET said that he did not intend
more than this, that by the adoption of the plan which he
proposed they would be able, while distributing the funds
of the hospital amongst those for whom it was designed, to
encourage a class of seamen whom it was very desirable to
encourage, but who, as he had mentioned, would not enter
the hospital.

After some further conversation the subject dropped, and
the house adjourned.

HOUSE OP COMMONS.---Last Evening,
The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills were read a third time and passed

London and South Western Railway (North Devon Exten
sions)— tilverscon Gas—and West Sussex Junction Rail•
way.

BELFAS r IMPROVEMENT (No. 2) BILL.

On the motion fot the third reading of this bill,
Mr MAGUIRE said that he had again to apply to the
house for a postponement of this bill. He travelled over the
ground that he had originally taken in order to show that
there was argument for the postponement of the bill, as a
strong feeling existed in Belfast against its provisions,
Which was developed by the fact that no leas than £20,000
had been subscribed by the Protestant as well asthe Roman
Catholic party to defeat the measure, which was ob-
noxious to the inhabitants of Belfast generally. The
feeling was that the object of the bill was to
enable the Corporation of Belfast to disfranchise
a larger body of the inhabitants. He contended that a
public and not a private bill was necessary in dealing with
the subject of the present measure, Which was tao important
to be disposed of by private legislation.
Mr. WHITESIDE denied the accuracy of the statement
i
of the hon. member for Dungannon
the unpopularity of the bill, the necessity°r• Maguire) as to
for which he said
was admitted by the inhabitants of Belfast, notwithstanding
the statement of the hon. member for Dungannon to the
contrary.

After some further discussion the amendment was With,
drawn, and the bill was read a third time and passed.
DUBLIN IMPROVEMENT BILL,

On the order of the day for the consideration of this bill,
Sir E. GROGAN moved several amendments, and en-
tered into details to establish the necessity of the course
which he advocated.

Sir P. O'BRIEN, as having been connected with the
corporation of Dublin, vindicated this body from the impli-
cation of being actuated by any unfair motive in regard to
this bill.

After some discussion a division took place en the ques-
tion of an amendment to the effect that there should he a
certain omission from the bill, exempting the corporation
from the liabilities specified in the body of the bill.
The house divided and the amendment was negatived,
the numbers being—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority
Mr. VANCE then moved that the bill should be recom-
mitted, which led to another discussion and another divi-
sion.

For the amendment .. 167
Against it
Majority -11
The bill was accordingly considered, and ordered for third
reading.

GOVERNMENT MANUFACTORIES.
Mr COBDEN gave notice that on an early day he would
draw attention to what be considered an extravagant ex-
meannditureufactorie on the part of Government in regard to public
s.

THE CONFERENCE.
Mr. DISRAELI asked the noble lord at the head of the
Government for somo explanation relative to the suspension
for a fortnight of the sitting of the Conference.
Lord PALMERSTON said that he was not in a
posi-
tion to state to what day the sitting of the Conference was
adjourned. The time to which the armistice extended was
in conformity with the wishes of the Danish Government.
Mr D. GRIFFITH asked the First Lord of the Trea.
sury whether it is understood that no further extension
would be pressed upon Denmark by the British Govern_
ment in case the Conference should not come to a final
agreement within the limits of the additional fortnight to
which the duration of the Conference is now extended ?
Lord PALMERSTON was understood to
_answer in
the negative,

PRIVATE BILLS.
On the order of the day for going into committee of
supply,
Lord R. CECIL moved that, in the opinion of the house,
it was expedient that the duty of ascertaining the facts upon
wi'Aich legislation in respect to private bhls was to proceed
,Jhould be discharged by some tribunal eat rt.& to the house.
He contended that there was the strongest 11,. ceseity for the
alteration which he proposed.
Mr GIBSON admitted that the existing system entailed
very arduous duties upon hon. members; still, whatever
might be done to meet the objections raised on that ground,
it was necessary that there should be an ultimate appeal to
Parliament. He did not believe that dissatisfaction existed
out of doors at the decisions of committees, and he feared
that if any suggestion such as was now made, or of which
they had heard previously were carried out, the result would
be merely to create additional impediments to and conse-
quently increase the expense of private bill legislation.
The discussion was continued by Colonel Patten, Lord
Stanley, Mr Lowe, Mr R. Hodgson, Mr R. Dutton, and
other members, the balance of opinion being that the exist-
ing system was very far from perfect and required amend-
ment. There was not the same concurrence of mind as to
the best method of improving it; for whilst some contended
that the committees on private bills should act as a jury
with the chairman as judge, others advocated the plan of
Lord R. Cecil, and all urged that it was desirable that where
great public works ware concerned the members of the com-
mittee should possess a knowledge of the localities.
Ultimately the motion was withdrawn, a division being
impossible without counting out the house, in consequence
of 19 members only being present.
Mr J. B. SMI fll moved that the increasing trade and
commerce of India, and the consequent increasing demand
fora portable circulating medium, requires that a gold cur-
rency should be established in that empire. The hon. gen-
tleman observed that constant complaints were received
from India with regard to the difficulty experienced in in-
troducing commodities owing to the absence of a convenient
circulating medium, and called upon the Government to
state what their intentions on the subject were,
Colonel SYKES, speaking from his own personal expe-
rience, said there was no doubt whatever that the natives of
India were quite ready to receive European gold coins pro-
vided they could be assured of their purity. If a gold coin
were introduced, made of pure metal, of a certain weight
and certain conventional value, the people would take it
but then the Government must consent to accept it in pay
ment of taxes at its market value.

Sir C. WOOD admitted chat the e subject was interesting
and important ; but the paper circulation in India had been
very successful, and was accepted by those who were en-
gaged in commerce there. For gold there was little demand,
whilst silver and copper circulated extensively. Even if a
gold coinage were established, he doubted whether it would
be of any great assistance in conducting mercantile opera-
tions. What the Indian treasuries desired was that the
sovereign should be received by them at a particular rate ;
and he did not deny that it would be of advantage if the so-
vereign of England and of the colonies were circulated in
India, and that it would be a great accommodation to trade.
The value the treasuries wished to place upon the sovereign
was 10 rupees ; but the fact was, that the sovereign was
worth more than that in the market, and to adopt the stan-
dard named by the treasuries would involve a considerable
sacrifice. He was unable to ascertain what was the value
of gold in the markets of India with such certainty as to
place any reliance upon it ; but the memorials upon this
subject were under the consideration of the Government of
India. He could not therefore undertake to give an assur-
ance of what he was disposed to do until he had received
their opinion.

After some remarks from Mr WATICIN and Mr GosoHEN,
Ihe motion was withdrawn.

EDUCATION.
In answer to Mr Durmor, Mr H. BRUCE stated that
the Government, having determined upon issuing a com-
mission to consider if it were not possible to erect a na-
tional-system of education on the foundation of the old
parochial system in Scotland, had come to the conclusion to
suspend the revised code until the inquiry had been com-
pleted, provided, however, that it was completed within 12
months.

NAVAL ARCHITECTURE.
In reply to Mr A. SMITH, Lord C. PAGET said that the
scheme for the organisation of the proposed school of naval
architecture had not been concocted by the Admiralty, but
by some of the most eminent naval architects in the coun-
try. The site at South Kensington had been selected for
the establishment on account of its economy and eligibility.
The house then went into committee of supply.
GRANT TO SIR ROWLAND HILL.
Her. Majesty's message for granting £20,000 to Sir Row-
land Hill having been read.
Viscount PALMERSTON said—Sir, I trust the house
will be disposed, without any objection, to concur in the
recommendation of her Majesty which has just been read.
(Hear.) Sir Rowland Hill is a man of great genius and
great sagacity, and of great perseverance and industry, and
who has rendered very important services to this country,
and, I may say, to other countries also. Sir R. Hill had
observed that the postal department was more a department
for the performance of services than a mere department for
the collection of revenue ; and,with a boldness which stag.
gored a great number of persona who had not looked at the
question from the same point of view from which he had
regarded it, he recommended a large reduction in the rate
of postage, in confidence that in the end it would bring the
revenue up to the same amount,seeiag that in the meantime
it would confer the greatest possible benefit to the commu-
nity at large. There were grave doubts about it; many
people thought that his expectations were too sanguine,
that the number of letters would not increase to the extent
he had reckoned, and that the revenue would not recover
the great shock which the, reduction to a Lenny would
create. These predictions were falsified, and all his cal-
culations turned out to be correct, (Cheers.) He has
for nearly a quarter of a century performed the very
arduous duties which devolved on him in the execution of
his scheme. He is now at a time of life when his health can
not be supposed to have withstood the effect of the great
labour which attached to his office, and the Treasury, on that
ground, have given him permission to retire, and they have
done that which I am sure the house will look upon with
indulgence—they have given him his full salary for life.
(Cheers.) He is now in the 70th year of his age, and his
health has been shattered by the labours he has had to per-
form. Under these circumstances, her Majesty has thought
that this house would consider that the great services which
Sir Rowland Hill hes performed would recommend him for
a grant which would enable him to make those arrange-
ments for his family which the short period daring which
Providence may permit him to enjoy his retiring pension
would otherwise probably not enable him to make. The
result of his labours has really been beneficial beyond that
which may strike persons at first sight. It is quite clear
that the facility which the penny post has given to all the
transactions of commerce, to all the communications con-
elected with the industry of the country, must have been
infinitely advantageous to general industry of the country,
and also by that means that the revenue, not of the Post-
office merely, but the revenue which arises out of the
general industry and prosperity of the country. In that
point of view he has performed a very great service to the
country. But there is another point of view from which
his merits should be calculated, namely, the degree of
happiness arid comfort which his invention—for I may call
it an invention—his plan, has conferred on the poorer classes
of the community, upon the millions, and that for a great
period of time. When the postage was as high as it was
before his plan was introduced, the relatives of poor
families who were scattered in diffarect parts of the
country had their communications cut off; for how could
a poor labouring man pay is or 6d for a letter ? The
communications of families were as difficult if not more
difficult, than they are now between England and Aus-
tralia. Well, sir, the cultivation of the affections is a
thing that raises men in their own estimation, which
raises them in the standing they occupy in society. It im-
proves their morals and improves all those qualities which
of the country,
I tend to make them useful members of society. Therefore,
I, Say the merits of Sir Rowland Hill, independently of the
to of his plan having contributed to the general prosperity
are manifested by its having conferred such
thegreat benellta upon all the labouring and poorer classes of
emltcni4itY and entitle him to the approbation and the
rewards whien this house may be disposed to confer en him.
(Cheers.) In 1838, the period before his plan came into
(oration, the uniraber of letters transmitted through the
post in the course of the•year was 76 millions, while in 1863
the number transmitted V 78.8 642 millions. Now that is a
measure of the degree in which that plan had assisted the
to the comfort and happiness of
tinhdenceotnirymaunuditcyonintrithb.uistecountry, There are various arrange.
ments connected with this plan independent of the mere
; among others, the fad-
given for money orders
laimtyowunhticohf mhi
for the transmission of money in small sums from one part
orders the country to another.
osneayrrpa
In 1838, the amount of money
orders at the Post-office was £315,000. In 1863 it was £16,494,000. (Hear, hear.). What an immense advantage
that must be to the community a.t large—
th facility of safe
transmission of small sums which otherwise it might be
very difficult and expensive to transmit.. Then there is the
book post, which is greatly to the interests of literature,
and is an arrangement which has been most extensively
taken advantage of. The gross revenue of the P ?st-efeee
has increased very greatly, but of course the facilities that
have been given have multiplied the number of offices, and
therefore naturally increased the outgoings. But the gross
receipts in 1838 were £2,865,000, while in 1863 they were
£38,700,900; therefore showing that Sir Rowland Hill
was perfectly borne out in reckoning that at no distant
period the receipts of the Pest-office would recover the
diminution which the first introduction of his plan would
naturally create. In point of fact, everybody is fareillar
with the merits of Sir Rowland Hill's plan, and with the
good effects it has produced ; and I am persuaded the house
will willingly concur in the proposal which is now made to
them. (Cheers.)
_ _

34r W. WILLIAMS disapproved of the grant, on the
ground that Sir Rowland Hill had received so liberal a
retiring salary.
Mr J. E WART cordially concurred in the vote, believing
that Sir Rowland Hill had conferred an immense benefit
upon commerce.
Mr TURNER believed that the whole community of