The Sun.
London, England, 1864-05-13 00:00:00

REPORTS.

The a rrmolution adopted by the house on the 12th o►
April, 'with respect to the form in which the reports of the
educational inspectors had been presented to Parliament
having been read by the clerk at the table,
Sir G. GREY said he could not help thinking that the
house had acted upon a misapprehension in coming to its
vote on the 12th of April. The right hon. gentleman the
late Vice- President of the Council on Education had
offered explanations upon that subject which showed that
he had only discharged the legitimate duties of his office,
and it appeared to be the unanimous belief of the house
that no reflection rested on the right hon. gentleman's per-
sonal honour. But it was the earnest and the very natural
desire of the noble earl at the head of the Council and of
the officers of his department that thefr conduct should
undergo the most thorough investigation; and under these
circumstances he (Sir G. Grey) had to move that a select
committee be appointed to inquire into th• practice of the
Committee of Council on Education with respect to the
reports of her Majesty's inspectors of schools." The right
hon, baronet the member for Droitwich had given notice of
an addition to that motion, which would extend the in-
quiries of the proposed committee to the whole constitution
of the Council on Education, But if it was desirable to
adopt a proposal of that description it was manifest that it
would deserve to be made the subject of :a special inquiry.
The motion of which he had given notice related to a spe-
cific question, and he hoped that the house would not con-
sent to allow its consideration to be swamped and overlaid
by the discussion of a very different and a much wider topic.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said he had no wish to embarrass
or impede the inquiry proposed by the right hon. baronet,
and he would readily consent that if the committee should
be appointed they should, in the first instance, investigate
and report upon the special subject to which the motion was
directed. But he believed that their labours might after-
wards be extended with great advantage. A feeling of dis-
satisfaction prevailed throughout the country with the mode
in which the business of the Committee on Education was
conducted. He did not himself wonder at the existence of
that feeling. The Committee on Education consisted of a
number of officers, among whom the controlling authority
seemed to be so indefinitely distributed that no one knew
who was responsible for any course of policy which that
board might pursue. He should himself be glad to find the
power of directing our system of national education concen-
trated in a special educational minister, and until a measure
for that purpose should be passed he would recommend
that any orders issued by that department should be laid
before Parliament at the commencement of each session, so
that they might undergo the earliest and the fullest con-
sideration that might be deemed advisable.

Mr. H. A. BRUCE expressed a hope that the house
would confine the inquiries of the committee to the special
object which had induced the Government to move for its
appointment. He deprecated the spirit of suspicion with
which every act of the Committee of Council was regarded.
He begged to assure them that that department was con-
ducted by men of honour, who were only anxious to dis-
charge to the best of their ability the duties they had
undertaken; and the growing improvement in our national
education system showed that their labours had not been
unsuccessful.

Lord R. CECIL said he felt it his duty to support the
amendment. The Committee of Council appealed to that
house for a decision on their conduct, and he believed that
such a decision would be beat given after an inquiry into
the general system on which the business of their office was
conducted. The right hon. gentleman, the late Vice-
President of the Committee on Education had exonerated
himself from the charge of having unfairly tampered with
the reports of the inspectors, but there was still reason to
believe that those documents had not been presented in a
legitimate shape to the house, and it was clearly desirable
that some further information should be obtained upon that
subject, and that if any unfair practices had been adopted
the blame should be brought home to their real authors.
Mr. OSBORNE was much inclined to agree with the
right hon. baronet (Sir J. Pakington); for a system which
had begun with an expenditure of £30,000 in 18;9, and now
coat £705,000 a year, was assuredly a proper subject for in
quiry ; but he did not agree that this was the time or place
for proposiag such an inquiry by way of a rider upon the
motion of the Home Secretary. At the same time he thought
that motion still more unfortunate and more ill-timed, be-
cause in the face of the recent explanations it was unjust to
the late vice-president, and uncalled for by the house. He
had hoped that the motion which had been carried by the
noble lord on the 13th of April would have been rescinded ;
and he Vaought that that was the proposal which her Ma-
jesty's Government would have proposed. In point of fact
his right hon. friend (Mr. Lowe) had received the sort of
justice which used to be practised in the border counties,
where they hung a man first and then tried him at their
leisure. (A laugh.) Nothing could be more unjust or un-
fair than the treatment which the right hon. gentleman had
received, both from the house and her Majesty's Govern-
ment. What had taken place ? Three or four disloyal and
discontented servants of the department dropped their
accusations into the "lion's mouth," in this case repre-
sented by the noble lord the member for Stamford, who
appeared to be neither an unwilling nor an unconscious
recipient of those false and calumnious charges.
Lord R. CECIL—I beg to move that the hon. member's
words be taken down.

Mr. OSBORNE—I repeat them—" false and callimnions
charges." (Order.) Ido not say that the noble lord has
not retracted them.

Lord R. CECIL—I have not retracted them.
Mr. OSBORNE—Then you ought to have done.
:Order.)

Lord R. CECIL—The statements of the hon. gentleman
are SQ strong that I may be permittel to explain. My
motion was couched against the committee of council ; as
against them I retract not one syllable ; but as regards the
right hon. gentleman (Mr. Lowe), I believe that the charge
did not apply personally to him. (Hear.)
Mr. OSBORNE—It is very well for the noble lord to say
that now ; but I am sure the house will agree with me that
the attack was made upon my right hon. friend personally,
and that both the resolution and the speech of the noble
lord were aimed at his character. (Order.)

Mr. LONGFIELD—I rise to order. The hon. gentleman
is referring to a speech in a recent debate, which is highly
irregular. (Hear, hear.)
_ _ _

Mr. OSBORNE—I am obliged to the lion, gentleman for
throwing his shield over the noble lord, but the house will
agree with me that the attack was upon the late Vice-Pre-
sident personally. These precious charges of these disloyal
and discontented officials—f suppose I cannot be called to
order for that—(a laugh)—were embodied in a resolution
which was submitted to the house just before dinner. It
was brought in at that unpropitious time when the propen-
sities of hyenas are most developed—(laughter, and cries of
"Oh:")—at a time like the present when the noble lord
wanted to settle the little account. Debate was suppressed,
and amidst angry howls—(oh)—the house voted and dined.
there was a majority of 109 against 93, and toy right hon.
friend was censured most unjustly and most unfairly.
(Cheers.) But what is the course adopted by her Majesty's
Government ? They come down four weeks after the thing
has occurred, and say their honour is impugned ; but I
think every one will agree that their honour cannot be very
sensitive when it takes them four weeks to look into its
wounds, and when they are then content to leave it to a
select committee. (Hear, hear.) On the 19th of April my
right hon. friend came forward and made an explanation,
which in the opinion even of his opponents was satisfactory ;
and I believe that if the First Minister had on that occasion
risen in his place and proposed to rescind the resolution, the
motion would have been carried unanimously in this house.
(Hear, hear.) I cannot give my support either to the
motion of the Home Secretary or to the amendment of the
right hon. baronet ; but if an opportunity should occur, I
of April be rescinded. (Hear, hear.)
will test the matter by moving that the resolution of the
12th
ADDERLEY saw no reason why the Government
should nct adopt the amendment. But he should earnestly
protest against the assumption that Parliament were bound
to print at the public expense every pamphlet written by a
school inspector, and that the heads of any department
should not have a right to exercise control over the reper ts
of their own officers. - -

Sir G. said he was still of opinion that the two
subjects of inquiry—that proposed by the motion and that
proposed by the amenchacut_,-,ught to he kept wholly sepa.,
rate and distinct.
The house divided—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority
The motion was then agreed to.
CIVIL SERVICE ESTIMATES—PUBLIC
On the motion for
EXPENDITURE.
going into committee of supply on the
Civil Service Estimates,
Mr AUG USTUS SMITH, in a long speech full of de-

tails, complained of the increase of these estimates, pointing
out the increment under each principal head of expenditure,
and asking for explanations. Ho hoped, he said, that the
house would thoroughly examine these estimates, which, in
his opinion, might be largely reduced.

Mr F. PEEL said the house could hardly desire that he
shorild follow Mr Smith through all the details of a speech
which he had no idea he intended to make. He confined
himself therefore to a few replies to particular items, re-
serving his explanations upon the several votes till the
house was in committoe:

After some desultory conversation, the House went into
committee, when, after discussion, votes were agreed to
for the following objects :—The royal palaces, public build-
ings, furniture for public offices, and royal parka and plea,
sure grounds.
On the vote for the Houses of Parlialient,
Mr. GREGORY called attent'ron to the inadequate re-
r anneration of Mr. Herbert :or the frescoes in the Peers'
robing. room. He havir: changed his process and destroyed
the result of a ye!.i's work at the suggestion of the late
Prince Coner;rt,
made wi`,l that the hon. member argued that the contract
gentleman ought to be set aside and a fresh
arrP.-ngement entered into by which he would be fairly paid
for the execution of what was really a very good work of
art. Mr. Maclise, he thought, also had a claim to some
further remuneration, although he had declined to ask for
it. He had heard from Mr. Herbert that before he under-
took the work his income averaged £l,BOO a year, and in
the case of Mr. Maclise it ranged between £2,000 and £5,000,
while in one year it was as much as £B,OOO. It was true
that, with the feeling of genuine artists, those gentlemen
had their heart in their work, and laboured for the love of
art itself ; but he did not think that that was a reason why
the remuneration which they received from the State should
be less than that which they could obtain from a picture
dealer. (Hear, hear.) In conclusion, the hon. member men-
tioned that he had seen a letter in which Mr. Herbert was
offered £l,OOO for one figure in his painting in the House of
Lords, and hoped that the question would be considered by
the Government. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. B. COCHRANE said this was not a claim to be
brought forward in forma pauperis. It was a claim of
justice. Mr. Herbert had really under his contract not
earned more than £350 a year, though his whole time was
employed. It should be borne in mind that they were not
paying for this fresco merely, but also for a great experi-
ment which has been quite successful.
Mr. BRIGHT said he did not pretend to know anything
about art, but when he beheld Mr. Herbert's painting ho
felt that he had not known till then that there was a
painter in this country who could produce such a work.
(Hear.) He was not in favour of the costly decoration of
the Houses of Parliament ; but still, it their walls were to
be decorated at all, let them be decorated in the best man-
ner, and in the manner which would be most lasting. (Hear,
hear.) This picture was executed in a manner which bade
fair to give it whatever might be understood by eternity in
describing the duration of any work of art; and should
not they behave honourably and generously and justly to
the man who had executed a work which would to all future
times attract hundreds of thousands of persons to that
house ? (Hear, hear.) He considered it would not be an
extravagant, but a moderate and just consideration for Mr
Herbert's claims, if he were to receive a sum of not less
than £5,000 for the picture. (Cheers.)
After a few observations from Mr C. Bruce, Sir M. Peto,
and Mr F. S. Powell,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
atmosphere of a deliberate assembly of this kind was not
perhaps the most fitting for the practical decision of a ques-
tion like the present. He did not grudge one word that had
been said about Mr Herbert, but he wished all previous
artists had received treatment as generous as that which
Mr Herbert had received from that house. The duty of
decorating the Houses of Parliament was referred to a com-
mission, by which it had been performed in a manner more
satisfactory than it would have been if it had been trusted
to the ordinary machinery of Government. What the
Government proposed to do was this—there was a sum of
£1,500 which was to be paid to Mr Herbert in addition to
the sum of £2,000 already paid. The £1,500 would be
paid as an instalment on account, but would have no refe-
rence to this particular picture, nor to any picture which
he was about to paint. What the Government proposed to
do, was to appoint a small commission of persons carefully
selected, who would go into the whole question with refe-
rence to the contracts for what had been done, and what
was to:be done, and advise the Government impartially,
not upon one item, but upon the course to be pursued with
regard to the whole, so that the merits of those artists
might be considered together, and each of them receive an
impartial reward.

Lord ELCHO obser 7ed that the hon. member for Gal-
way had done justice both to Mr Herbert and to the House
of Commons by bringing this question before the com-
mittee. He thought the question was a much larger one
than that embraced in the proposal of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer.

Sir G. BOWYER urged the peculiar claims of Mr
Herbert to consideration, as he had succeeded in producing
something truly great.

Mr C. BENTINCK said that he had the authority of
Mr Herbert for saying, that unless the sum paid to him
was made up to £5,000 he would never put a brush to the
wall again.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
was convinced that the hon. member was under some
mistake in asserting that he had Mr Herbert's authority for
saying that unless ha received a sum of money over the
price for which he contracted he would never again put his
brush on the wall. (Hear, hear.)
Mr HE YGATE called attention to the defective venti-
lation of the ladies' gallery in the House of Commons.
There was no possibility of obtaining air except by opening
a doer, which created a draught by which the ladies were
almost blown to pieces.

Mr COWPER promised that everything that could be
done should be done to improve the ventilation of the
ladies' gallery.

Mr GREGORY said that he quite assented to the pro-
position of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
The vote was then agreed to, and the house resumed,
RAILWAY COMPANIES' POWERS BILL.
This bill was read a second time,
RAILWAYS CONSTRUCTION FACILITIES BILL,
This bill was read a second time.
NAVAL PRIZE BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
BREECH-LOADING RIFLES.

In reply to Colonel DUNNE,
The Marquis of lIARTINGTON objected to the pro-
duction of the repo! is of the ordnance select committee on
Storm's rifle, and other breech-loading rifles, on the ground
that they were of a confidential character.

BEER-HOUSES (IRELAND).
Sir R. PEEL obtained leave to introduce a bill for more
effectually regulating the sale of beer in Ireland.
VACATING OF SEATS (HOUSE OF COMMONS.)
Sir G. GREY obtained leave to introduce a bill founded
upon the report of the select committee which had recently
sat to consider the office of Under-Secretary of State, and
to prevent more than four Under-Secretaries from occupy.
ing seats in that house.

The bill was subsequently introduced, and read a first
time.

The house adjourned at one o'clock.

A QUESTION AS TO THE SUN.--The very natu-
ral question often arises, How is such au immense
conflagration sustained ? And, considering the enormous
emanation of light and heat, does not the sun undergo
some important diminution in volume ? Observation can-
not aid us in the solution of this:myatery ; for if the sun
were gradually consuming away at the rapid rate of two
feet of surface matter in every day, it would be 3,000 years
before the diameter of the sun would be decreased by a
measurable quantity. It has indeed been suggested that
the light may be generated by friction, or excited by elec-
trical discharges, rather than by the combustion of material
fuel; but, with the present state of our knowledge, this can
only be regarded as conjecture.—Once a Week.

LIFEBOAT SERVICES. -- DROGHEDA, IRELAND,
MAY 9.--During n heavy gale of wind this morning
the schooner Maria, bound from Cardiff to Letterkenny with
coals, carried away all her head saiis and went ashore on
the North Bull, Drogheda Bar. The lifeboat of the Na•
tional Institution stationed at this port was at once launched
to her assistance. There was a very heavy sea on the bar,
but the lifeboat was fortunately the means of rescuing the
shipwrecked crew of three men, who were afterwards brought
safely ashore. The vessel has since become a total wreck.
This valuable lifeboat has been instrumental during the
past two years in rescuing the crews of the following
wrecked vessels—Brig Minerva of Workington, 4 ; schooner
Mary Anne, 5; schooner Gipsy of Drogheda, 4; and schooner
Maria, 3. Total lives saved 16.

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