The Sun.
London, England, 1852-12-07 00:00:00

44, ',would be the means of affording a complete indus-
C'toeeeetiation to the people of this country, enabling them
():e(1, he increased competition to which they are ex-
tio art of this space is intended for the erection of a
the ettam__l Gallery. But this is not the only object which
that tti7issioners have set before themselves. They wish
Isy be i.t_e Should. be a great commercial museum, in which
They wi"tuld specimens of all the raw produce of the world.
Q. the sh that that should be followed by a repertory of
lalia•9lillerY which the ingenuity of man has devised,
geten, eq,,vise• So that the machinery which is to mann-
-140 11,8 ".,„"e raNy produce and convert it into other forms
'44 ,t Pudied by the people, and that they may find in
AN, the a stimulus for their invention. (Hear, hear.)
chic e machinery we wish to have another department
r 1„, ell will be seen the result of the machinery upon the
Prodo,
fls,„l e• National Gallery and the Glillery. of Art
t
14%11 '"l4.'ll'e will form the fourth division in this great
t 6 6 industrial education. (Hear.) Sir, we hope that
thaceennt ittee will assent to the proposal which I submit,
retehpoe shall do more than that which I have briefly
I'/tie" than the four divisions to which I have ad-
-1%45-that of the raw material, the machinery, the mann-
tete e, and the art which inspires them—we shall over-
.l a4f•
acultY experienced in this country by all learned
the inability to confer together. (Hear.)
Ltke the Royal Society, so long a light shining
bailliancy ever since the days of Newton,
,"1,60f -.,„elllerienced the difficulty which is now sascepti-
Zeletie7,9lwal for the first time. Almost all the learned
ZPort; !'in. the kingdom will feel that there is now an
;,,111AbY afforded to them of assembling on the same
'en'e,:" we look forward to the time when we will find
• rO-rmiand art, and all the learned societies in the coun-
17:11inz an accumulated radiance of intelligence, in-
Oitea k,-Oul'onlY the metropolis, but every part of the
,1
oulcy -•-•• f ligcleln. (Hear, hear.) This is not to be done
i;°reed means. All we recommend is that space
e afforded, because on space systems depend-
-1110111'cer)—ancl that when space is afforded, that we
; 11,7;of the plan proposed to be fairly developed. Sir,
4aew that I can say any more upon this subject.
4cwish it to be clearly understood that it is not a gross
,11`3 o 1
IneneY which the house is called to vote merely for
se of e ulat. an equal amount of liberality. • I
-`4l3w whether many have read the report which is
th:tlneebintog otonneeof.herMin eesteam. Minis. ters, but to me there
shillings of the millions being
klkltc",:dation for the great movement of education, which
Ntr,7° the character and elevate the morals of the
I'llo, ch(llear, hear.) I think it is a legitimate appeal
•143 e L•".". tnaking to the committee, and I trust that the
u"
of ▪ agrees to the vote which I now propose—That a
,000/. be granted for the purchase of land at
for tn (Hear.)
It e
-EY3lolTRsaid that we had been imagining that
mkt:tLro,,,r° ono' •to all other countries in mann-
tZs snip artsi, and having had the advantage of
;taibition, we had seen that unless we take care
'"Ird(1 be left behind hand in the race, he therefore
kgte-LY agreed that something should be done to pro-
industrial education of the people—(hear)—
I'r f•ar they ought to feel grateful to the commis_sionerws
"12tle generous gift. For his part, however, he sa
'arti '"Fueulties in the way before the report could be fully
11„ ed
'vat in°--• For instance, there were societies now which.
Sat E,,,,7„0,000/. a year for the maintenance of their differ-
t it would
Now, if they could all be brought to the one
a% 4at'tl,- would. be very well, but the report did not show
behest societies would consent to such removal. So far
'',l)jeet,".°llld ascertain, he understood that they strongly
44'1 to being removed to Kensington, as such a dis-
Ob)tifreTena, town would be very inconvenient to them. He
hear that, with regard to those commercial museums,
111,14eurns for the raw produce as well as for the dis-
Ipsdynaehinery and manufactured articles, that they
'hesei., 'lave. to be built with public money. They were
41(1 th-rei, entering into a very large scale of expendAure,
vp#e„"ouse should be aware of the extent of the scheme.
Ltlik4e(H-4 there was no plan or map of the property'to be pm.-
~,uefor;'„ Thia ought to be laid upon the table of therhouse
19've th•l4Y sum was expended. If the House of Common's
• Peßn money he would like to know in whom it was to
it •"`• All these things should be clearly und.erstood,
Illollkras necessary that the house should be cautious and
I,o,4l)r°eeed with some regard to economy.
Nat,7 J.RUSSELL said that he was one of the royal
cee4lBBloners, but he was afraid that the information he
hr fa Place at the disposal of the house would be very im-
eet •
vet indeed. Mucta depended upon her Majesty's Go-
• ere
and it was upon their assistance the commi-
onksttild rely. The commissioners were, however,
i')11144-1.3 r.t there should be some institution or some
uehep-'-''ll of an institution which might perpetuate the
114 4r4 derived from the Great Exhibition of 1851. It
lot;4n.°llght right not to allow those benefits to be transi-
tbj,:t and nothing seemed more likely to accomplish the
Znd
proposed than by giving the advantage of science
ebte to the industry of the country. Every one who
e
Ville-Z:4 the Exhibition with care must have been con-
th 1;4 that, as it is stated in the report, from henceforward
th: Will be a greater competition in works of industry
Vail 7 there was heretofore, and that that competition will re-
e greater attention to the intellectual part of the ma-
lebaetilre than has been formerly bestowed. (Hear,
thy) Looking at the subject in another point of view,
r4ll. ad been slow appropriating large sums to
4067,4, e Purposes. (Hear, hear.) No one can consider,
'44
"nstanding the sums voted for the British Museum,
h.,
Illed_-4113' years can elapse before some decision re-
oe,„ll that institution must be arrived at. They
•Z`t to have a great national library. They had already
tiltrseat number of books, and he did not think the space
of".„,!ient for them and the other treasures which they had
ere-',,,toral history. If they had a sufficient site, they might
other buildings suitable to these treasures. This
toy the general object which the commissioners proposed vver emselves. Now he had no doubt if these grounds
toote,t'ito, be purchased very large sums, of monpy w.dd be
lkilLooted, which would enable them to erect sufficient
a-444, ga• He thoht that the collection of manufactures
ellin'tle chemical lectures,together with the display of ma-
ter„, would form an bject of great manufacturing ir-
toe,ll,.', and which it would be well worth the while of this
—lll to Possess. He had own one instance which was
ht.lsratrative of what he said—tea building
Geology head yalreadY
Isee age. The Museum of Economic
to,- (If. the greatest use in enabling petrsoo ntains to. obtain
Although
th'ira,ition which they otherwise could nornsteb d
°it 41• n 'was at present imperfect, he t that the spi-
lvoto`ee commissioners. and the disposition_ of the house
institutionhe such as
h' lead to the establishment of an
sei4l,, described. His noble friend stated that some. of the
111-e7.w.fie societies would be unwilling to go to Kensmgt
fre raight be very possible • at the same time
.theye were
• cille°tpetitions to by scientific so-
cleti sent the Treasury . . that unless
the es, Praying for assistance, and complainingr rate, they
tv4.,were enabled to obtain rooms at I,
°. be forced to dissolve their societeiesea.pel such in-
Oe ,`?8 they would be glad to have rooms allocated to them.
,I:aple whole, he could not but believe this was the co_m_-
01„1.1zent of a great improvement, and he was very glad
Isvh that, under the guidance of the illustrious prince,
'44 already rendered such great service to the cause of
4er 4'll and education, that it would arrive at a pros-
Otis
kr
I,conclusion.
l'hich',,-trICE was very anxious to promote everything
bat -°111(1 lead to the advancement of science and art,
may :•Ppeared to him that there were difficulties in the
this scheme which the noble lord (Lord Seymour)
tiloc'o„lad lately' spoken had pointed out. For his part he
14,3Q,0.'t, and ha had already stated, that the. surplus
Sgt,'„°°.,l-11d not be better applied than in converting Ken-
se "-r!lace into an institution of the sort now pro-
ha% Joke had an objection to public
they.g voted
1.1e,t,Y before they knew whether the spot wisheditatc€l
vie was the spot best adapted for the purposes they
L'e had heard that it was intended to remove
vieli,,,-•°11al Gallery to Kensington, where it would not
blesre --''"•„ by one out of the ten persons who now went
Pore 3cle doubted whether the pictures would not suffer
?era -du"' from removal than they possibly could receive
impurity of the atmosphere to which they were
Istrslibieeted.
Debli;....,bitlJMMOND said that, as far as related to the
Na-s!Ktvantage of giving every person the advantage of
.41 Zing himself in the principles of art and science, he
Was doubt that the British Museum in all its details
:•" t ,e,ttnal to the task. But the question was whether
• he "'KT 'were embarked in a foolish attempt to
.excite
~te 1,-„,PeOple of this country a taste for high art which n,!-
was a„-"'";a•enied them. (Laughter.) He believed that it
vicha-ba°Bllrd. an attempt nationally, as it would be indi-
„,,baasi,l•Y, to make the same man a sculptor, a painter,. a
"lep-441, a poet orator, a statesman, and a warrior.
divisill knew that was impossible, for there should be a
°ll of labour in everything. To attempt to make the
•I;ts'%'steged°:tbis country appreciate or like high art, was as
,s,-"e hates to make an Italian like beef-steaks and porter.
e"IeVZ Exhibition gave the ple a very useful lesson.
I,,,ter" 'eesve,r did excel in the
.highest department of mann-
01,11'eetin'„um• Instance at no time have they attained to the
*-1.1•0a4-"„„ef working in iron which they have attained
41'11 eh • „,-_-°,ose altar screens which are so beautiful, and
tri .`"I'Y be seen in perfection in the north, are
ti of cede of
wood.- In Spain, they are made
con of stone or made as well, and the :tr-
ill ate liataand they are
just familiarly as a paint-
-15 ICS ° ]mown as to be a Corregio or a
thael. °tn. in this wun
o,_Pregen, lont you never atta7n to anything of the sort.
;;:lentb:eq:).lu• cloth-manufacturer tr is inferior to that of
mover been able to supply pat-
hat ~_f °r the cotetiOn printing press ; and not one. of
1°011.1;v40!, Painters knew how to draw. (Laughter.) It is a
Zew to
sawn fact that Sir Joshua Reynolds never knew
h t Sir Thomas
4‘\ll.e'leeraw. It
isequally notorious
)' You will find it
+llfClealt , never did either. (Hear,
4Witt get a person in this countryhear• to take an outline
to, gOf a,
, taste fo_ great painting.
op look ranese things,into your own lobbies
:ehievinjrour own frescoes, and ee what you are capable
• conlyWeell you are going to form
*o.ettoens there and regale yourselves with the
no us British art and British taste. (Laughter.) It
A
orthat
nzo r that 2,500,0001.
,3" reo4°Poo Bed to purchase 70,0001. worth of land. Did
was spent in the erection
'-'"ce in which they were assembled,
.and. that
.111131 e tnictrla;„e'cedience which ought to be the chief in the
enough to contain them ? It
• Nverellnte to be heard in it when it was built and
ettoebarkin frozen exit of it in the winter. They were.tnowe
t rid, g lIPon a sea, and they did not know where i_ewao _
his • ThereColui, was only one thing which the pee le
'l7 did appreciate, and that was landscape
alld he
could foreigners showed their perfection with us,
say—
" That which with them is always goilt.
1. With us is only ot " (Laughter.)
Nfe4ll*. 'iVART g u
de atMent,
the that this would be a wise
1141 presenrtl e land now bought at the price named
Mood reach a higher one in the market. He un-
?tie drawing formed part of the system of instruc-
I the
,s_ur national schools, and he believed, if the minds
7orlta oP4.th_:)nle were only educated, they would appreciate
co 2 the 1„; 4.1.1't, as well as the inhabitants of any other country
reieNZo.;,"2 ILe did not despair of the proposition of the
he ka„.,":,r!' being brought to a happy consummation,
fil"%ear, 1,7"i1a. be quite ready to support the present vote.
hear)
cello; 'EBIKELE
to of the Y expressed a hope that the Chan-
Preve,, Exchequer would use his powerful influence
eeiug speliation of the splendid works of art now
h ,°n the National Gallery. (Hear, hear.)
,o k/;e NER could not consent to give his vote until
;lave th,s'e Whom the land would be conveyed, who would
',tad vnuilic(?ntrol of the land, and for what purposes the
The wore 1, be employed when they had purchased it.
it but d the new National Gallery was to be erected
exn...ii,_ue submitted there would be some question of
'41,11 the ready of removing the National Gallery so far
.vvshe ea tbe metropolis. (Hear, hear.)
no pi.o‘3"-1‘.•%-LLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there
ional „ Position before the house to build any new fla-
ttop g4Lert or to •
Ca°aition ' raise any other edifice whatever. The
11 lite exern the house was whether they should con-
e°l4mistil equal ellm with that already voted by. the Royal
e" to the Purchase of wale 14nd, which was the

only pie t of land which ever could be purchased in this me-
tropolis. (Hear, hear.) Hereafter, if it should be submitted
to the house that it was a convenient site among other
things for the National Gallery, which must be removed
somewhere or other, for at present there was not a single
place where works of art could be deposited in safety—
(hear)—it would be for the house fairly to consider that
question, and it would be entirely under their control.
All he wished the house now to do was to agree to vote
this sum of 150,000/., which he desired to see under the
control of a Minister of the Crown, according to the lan-
guage used in the commissioners' report. He had never
proposed that the house should vote a sum of money to be
applied out of the control of a Minister of the Crown re-
sponsible to the house. They had heard some remarks on
the locality. It was the locality to which not only the
population of this metropolis, but the whole population
of the United Kingdom resorted not two years ago,
and he could not believe that if the inducement
were equal, the locality would be found convenient. The
hon. member for East Surrey seemed to imagine this was
an attempt to force a feeling for fine pictures among the
general community, when the fact was the reference to the
national pictures was a very subordinate portion of the
commissioners' report. The scheme they recommended
was neither more nor less than to give an industrial educa-
tion to the people, and to bring the influence of science,
especially, and of art upon the manufacturing production.
A plan more practicable, more important, and more urgent
to the interests of the country could not be conceived.
(Hear, hear.) This land was, in fact, virtually purchased,
because the commissioners had entered upon a contract for
its purchase, with the confident expectation that Parlia-
ment and the country would assist them. (Hear, hear.)
When the purchase was fully completed, all further plans
must receive the consideration of the house, and he was
sure the house would not consent to raising any buildings,
or any expenditure, without a very rigid scrutiny into all
the arrangements, and taking care that the whole talent of
the country should be brought into public competition.
(Hear, hear.) He hoped the committee would agree to
this vote. By doing so they would not agree to any ex-
penditure beyond the purchase of valuable property, which
hereafter might be dealt with as Parliament should think
fit. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. V. SMITH complained that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer hael not answered the question satisfactorily of
the noble lord the member for Totnes. The estimate was
not produced in the usual form, no detail was given, and
no plan of the property they were about to purchase was
forthcoming. They ought to have information of the pro-
bable further sums which would be required, and who
would be responsible for the expenditure.
Lord SEYMOUR said they had not yet heard what was
tho quantity of ground to be purchased, or what portion
was to be made over to the public.
Mr. CLAY wished to know if a conditional contract had
been entered into for all the land, because it was reported
that the owner of a small portion of the land, four acres
only, asked 70,0001. for it, and said nothing should induce
him to take a farthing less. (Oh, oh.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
offer was treated with the contempt it deserved. (Hear.)
There was no conditional agreement whatever. Seventy
acres had been purchased by the surplus of the Exhibition,
and the commissioners offered to give the whole of their
purchase to the public, provided the nation would assist
them in the object they had in view. There could be no
difficulty in making arrangements satisfactory to the house
for its control and management, but he wished it to be dis-
tinctly understood that the whole of the land purchased
would be given to the public. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME was satisfied with the assurance that the
land should be under the control of a Minister of the
Crown, but hoped the vote would be postponed until the
plan of the property was before the committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
would be very convenient if the committee would now
dispose of the vote. The country would understand they
were paying 150,0001. and receiving property worth