The Sun.
London, England, 1852-01-09 00:00:00

EVENING, JANUARY 9, 1852,

THE ENGINEERS AND THE EMPLOYERS,
(From the Times.)
We are greatly concerned to state, that up to the pre-
sent moment no advance has been made towards an ar-
rangement of the dispute between the engineers and
their employers. The masters have expressed their de-
termined resolution to abide by the terms of their
notice, and the men have announced intentions which
indicate anything but a disposition to retract. Unfor-
tunately, the questions at issue are so simple and cate-
gorical that a compromise, in the usual sense of the
word, becomes exceedingly difficult; and, though it
may appear harsh to say so. we are convinced that the
operatives ought to accept the terms of their employers,
unconditionally as they are framed. It is with great
regret that we express what +seems so arbitrary an opi-
nion, but we subjoin our reasons in plain language,
both that the men may see their true position and
the public be enlightened on a case which demands
all the vigilance of the country at large.
The only official act to which the " Amalga-
mated Society" candidly owns, is the dispatch of a cir-
cular to the several engineering firms, " advising the
discontinuance of systematic overtime and piecework."
This " advice," or as the employers phrase it, these
"demands" the firms in question have refused to accept,
and they make " the unconditional withdrawal" of this
circular the sole and absolute condition of keeping their
works open as before. Now, in estimating the resolu-
tion thus taken, we have to consider, first, the character
of the demands themselves; secondly, the circumstances
under which they are made; and lastly, the general pur-
pose to which they tend. On all these points we say the
masters can be shown to have the better cause. We need
not repeat what we have already stated on the subject
of overtime; it is not in reality a demand made on
behalf of the workman, but a demand made in behalf
of the man out of work, and no sensible person can
possibly maintain that an employer ought to be coerced
into distributing between two men or more as amount of
work which one man is able and willing to perform. It
may seem capricious, and it may perhaps be unwise, to
induce a single man to spend twelve hours on a job
which would provide two men with six hour.' work
apiece, but the question, at any rate, is not one for com-
pulsion' and it is manifestly inconsistent with the rights
both of master and men that terms should be dictated
under penalty of stoppage, by a " council" sitting in
London. As to piecework, if any argument is required
to show. the unreasonableness of proscribing such a
practice, we need only refer to the letter of Messrs.
Walker, which we publish to-day. In point of fact, even
the " Executive Council" could only defend themselves
on this point by alleging that the contracts in question
were not voluntary. But, virtually, they must have
been so. An employer says to a workman, " You must
do this job for a certain sum." This, perhaps, seems an
arbitrary proceeding, but it ,is perfectly clear that the
price thus fixed must be at least equal to the current
value of the labour required, for, if it were not so, then,
in case of refusal, no other man could be found to take
the work, and it would remain undone. The only com-
pulsion exercised against the workman first applied to is
that of fair,competition. John Brown takes a job of
piecework on his master's terms, because, if he dues not,
John Green will do so instead. If there is no John
Green forthcoming, then John Brown may have his own
way, but if there is, then it follows from the very
fact that the price was not set too low. We
have put this case on its own simple merits, but, in
reality, as Messrs. Walker observe, earnings by piece-
work are invariably higher than earnings by daywork,
and the demand of " the Council" is practically aimed at
the " organization of labour" alone. The points, there-
fore, of overtime and piecework, even considered on their
own grounds, are manifestly untenable.
Considered in their evident purpose, and under the
circumstances of the dispute, they are less admissible
still. The Amalgamated Society is not upholding the
title of workmen to fair hours of recreation and leisure; it
is maintaining the title of men without employment to
be found in occupation at the expense of those em-
ployed. This is proved beyond question by the published
rules, documents, and transactions of the society.
The language, moreover, of the council is deceitful and
evasive. They profess merely to "advise;" but advice,
as was proved in the cases of Messrs. Hibbert and Platt
and Messrs. Parr and Curtis, means dictation under
penalties. The society din May last tendered their
" advice" to the former of these firms, and in July to
the latter, and both were coerced into yielding. As to
the assertion made by Mr. W. Newton that this dis-
pute was a "private one," with which the society had
no kind of concern, we have set that point at rest
for ever. We possess a letter not only signed but
written from beginning to end by Mr. W. Allen,
the very person who at this moment is sue-
scribing as secretary the notices of the " Executive
Council." This letter is dated from the " Gene-
ral Office of the Amalgamated Society," and
it states in the plainest language that the council
of the society met to deliberate on the dispute between
Messrs. Hibbei t and their men; that, after due discus-
sion they decided what course the men should adopt;
that, in order that their views should be carried out,
they dispatched a deputation to Oldham, and that one
member of this deputation was Mr. Newton himself.
Seeing, therefore, that the Executive Council is clearly
identified with the proceedings at Oldham, how could it
possibly be doubted that the same body, in urging upon
others the same demands, would resort to the same co-
ercion? Were not the manufacturers entirely justified
in concluding that they must either singly share the fate
of Messrs. Hibbert and Platt, or combine in a body for
self-defence? And are they not justified now in requir-
ing, before they forego their protective measures, the
withdrawal of " advice" which means nothing less than
the coercion of their firms, at the first convenient oppor-
tunity, into terms which are plainly incompatible with
the freedom and prosperity of trade?
But there is more behind. The " Executive Council"
have now thought proper to announce that they have
never demanded, and do not intend demanding, " the
dismissal of persons at present working self-acting
machines." This is either falsehood or equivocation, or
perhaps bath. The deputation of the council so deli-
berately, and with such set purpose, sent to Oldham in
May did demand of Messrs. Hibbert and Platt the re-
moval of all such persons from their works by Christ-
mas, at latest, when, said they, " the machines shall en-
tirely fall into the hands of mechanics." These con-
ditions we have read under their own hands and
signatures, and it was further stipulated that none
but "mechanics," that is to say, workmen
licensed by the council, should ever be (ngoged
in those works for the future. We assert, moreover,
that the published rules of the society, end the whole
tenour of its transactions, do unmistakeably prove the
intentions of the council in this most important respect,
and even the notice, it will be seen, above quoted, leaves
it open to the executive body to torbids,the introduction
of any fresh hands of this class. But can it be for a mo-
ment tolerated in this country and these times that a set
of men should band themselves together and declare that
none should follow their trade except on their terms
and in such numbers as they thought fit; that none,
however competent, should be employed in their calling
without their license, and that, oven if machinery
were invented to perform their work, it should be
superintended exclusively by men of their own class at
full wages, although such superintendence could be
effectively exercised by less skilled men or boys? This
is literally and without the smallest exaggeration what
the Amalgamated Society declare, and in these attempts
they are so deluded as to bespeak the sympathy of the
public at large!
We observe that the operatives are invited by the
council to become co-operatives' in establishing a
business of their own—that is to say, in becoming
their own masters, in every sense of the word. Now,
we do earnestly request these intelligent men to
reflect on the simple truths which we here
briefly state for their consideration. About 10,000
or 12,000 hands will be out of work, and it is of
course clear that to be found in work they will require
the same amount of capital as was needed to provide
them with work before—that is to say, a capital
equalling the aggregate invested in the thirty-six firms
closing their establishments. At the rate of 10,00(11.
capital for every
„100 hands this would require alma
1,000,0001. or 1,200,0001. to be forthcoming. It could
only be forthcoming on the terms by which all capital is
attracted—viz., good and safe returns. But how can
such retu?ns be promised from an establishment in
which there will be no parries representing the interests
of capital, but all representing the interests of la-
bour? Under the present system, capital is represented
by the terms of the masters, and labour by the terms of
the men, these conflicting requirements being so ad-
justed as to find wages for one party and profit for the
other—wages to pay labour, and profit to pay capital.
This system, as our City correspondence the other
day disclosed, is not always successful, even with
all the natural care of the masters in protecting
capital at the expense of labour, and what, then,
is likely to result where capital will be absolutely
unprotected and labour allowed its own terms—
where it will be a necessary and essential condition of
the establishment that a minimum of work shall be per-
formed for a maximum of wage? The workmen talk of
appointing directors or managers, but either these
managers will act like genuine masters, and so place the
men exactly where they were before, or they will act
like the "Executive Council," and hen what becomesc
of the interests they were presumed to represent? Once
n
more, while there is yet time, we earnestly recommend
the operatives to consult their true friends, and
. with-
draw draw demands which can never be conceded without
ultimate ruin to all parties together.

AUDACIOUS ROBBERY AT LORD DUDLEY COUTTS
STUART'S.—lnformation was yesterday transmitted tohetehne
various metropolitan police stations of a robbery havicg
committed on the previous evening at the mansion of the
Right Hon. Lord Dudley Coutts Stuart, BLP, in Stratford-
place. It appears that between six and seven o'clock of the
evening in question an elderly foreigner of a military appear-
ance,
wearing a profusion of hair about his face, and hie coat
closely buttoned up to his chin, knocked at his Lordship'slt he
residence, and handed to the servant a letter, saying that
came from the secretary 's office of the Poli,h refugees, and
requesting that the letter might be banded to Lord Stuart,
and adding that he would wait for his Lordship's re reply.
The servant proceeded as directed, leaving the bearer cfith.
,:nd two
letter in the hall, but on his return the fellow had vanished,e
taking with him two greilitavcionagts,insaidsielktuhme brmelalka,er
hats (one a black ene,
Chaplain and Moore"). With these articles the fellow got
clear off, and it has since been ascertained that it was a sham
letter which was presented. Similar robberieestcotd in
the above
have recently been very prevalent, being ffete
instances through the presentation of a sham letter.
THE LIVE
Brom, COUNTY COURT.—M.
r Ramshay
has caused a notice to be served on
peril,th fromet
paying to
the new Judge treasurer of the
County Court, prohibiting him, at his
his quarter's salary,
which is now due, and
another notice on Mr. Pollock himself, prohibiting him from
receiving it. He has also served notice on the '
Courier.
ensuingtc Car-
lisle, that he intends, on an early day in
th Earl of Car-
to apply to the Court of Queen'sgß.lnLcihvefroproadge rrantetormtO
restrain Mr. Pollock from actin
To be Let, on Lease (including the urter.
fixture)
the Monument
on
which use of the
Patience vita.--,Punch.