The Sun.
London, England, 1864-08-05 00:00:00

Lord Stanley on Commercial Affairs.

LIVERPOOL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.
The half-yearly meeting of the Liverpool Chamber of
Commerce was held yesterday afternoon. Mr. Grainger
presided, and there were present Lord Stanley, Mr T. B.
Horsfall, M.P., Messrs. Hey worth, Macfie, &c.
Letters of apology for non-attendance were read from Mr
J. C. Ewart, M.P., Mr Bramley Moore, 111,P., and the
Mayor of Liverpocl.
The report, which detailed operations of the council of
the Chamber upon most of the commercial questions which
have arisen during the past half-year, was taken as read.
The CHAIRMAN said that in deference to the Chamber
the Council had studiously avoided all party questions,
though not avoiding those coming within the range of poli-
tical economy, drawing the line as nearly as possible be-
tween where theory was likely to become practice, and
where it remained theory only.
Mr HORSFALL moved the adoption of the report. He said
there were several subjects mentioned therein to which he
should feel it his duty to refer. He rejoiced much that the
Board of Trade was negotiating a treaty with Peru. If
the Board of Trade communicated more frequently
with the mercantile interests, the treaties adopted and sanc-
tioned by Government would be much more beneficial to
the country, and the Board of Trade would be enabled to
obtain that practical information which would be invaluable
to them in negotiating these treaties, With reference to the
consolidation of Customs and Inland Revenue establish-
ments a deputation had waited on Lord Palmerston, and
after a long delay he (Mr Horsfall) had learnt from the
Chancellor of the Exchequer that Government did not see
their way clear to the granting of a commission as sought
by this chamber. They were, however, convinced that the
consolidation Customs and Inland Revenue was founded
on true principles, and he was sure the time was not far dis-
tant when it would be accomplished. He then referred to
the present inaccuracy of the Customs and Inland Revenue
returns made to Parliament, and quoted instances. With
reference to the bill for the collection of taxes, he had sup-
ported it until the introduction of a clause providing that
London should be exempted from the restrictions placed on
other towns. After that he opposed it strongly before com-
mittee, but was defeated. When the bill came on for third
reading he opposed it again and the house rejected it. With-
out the objectionable clause he thought the bill was a very
beneficial one. With reference to the Railway Companies'
Powers Bill he supported the views of the chamber, though
opposed to those of Lord Stanley. MK Horsfall proceeded to
detail his action in regard to the Partnerships Bill. With
respect to the rates of railwaycarriage to and from Liverpool
he explained the difficulties he had had to encounter in ob•
taining returns desired by this chamber of the rates charged
by each railway company. He fist gave notice two sessions
ago, but only tour companies furnished the returns. He had
repeated the order forthwith with a similar result, and then
on the 7th June last gave a final notice that they be fur-
nished by the r uesday next following. At the last moment
came the draught of a petition against the order by the
Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Company. His turn
for moving the returns did not come on until half-past
2 o'clock, and while the vice-chairman of the board of
directors of the London and North-Western Railway was
replying, Mr Bramley Moore and the railway directors had
the house counted out. This Chamber simply wanted to
be satisfied that in the charges for carriage to and from
Liverpool all the companies charged uniform rates and
showed no partiality. As their representative, he should
still take any one of the courses open before him to obtain
the returns that the Chamber might think necessary. After
some general reference to the prosperity of the country Mr
Horsfall concluded by moving the adoption of the report.
Mr HEYWORTII seconded the motion, and drew atten-
tion to the action of the Chamber in regard to the customs
duties in India, upon which the council reported as fol-
lows :—" The Chamber was informed in the annual report
Presented in February last that a committee has been ap-
pointed to consider the question of these duties. The com-
mittee to which the question was referred were unable at
that time to prJsecuto the inquiry without authoritative
publications of the tariffs of India, which could not be pro-
cured in any of the official quarters. The committee hav-
ing since had before them all the official information ob-
tainable on the subject, your Council are enabled now to
acquaint you that the Customs duties now ;levied in India
appear to be framed for the purpose of revenue only, and
do not injuriously affect the commerce of this country,
without producing any corresponding benefit to the Indian
Exchequer. Your council, observing with pleasure that
within the last three years these duties had been largely re-
duced, and hoping that the growing prosperity of the Indian
Exchequer would at no distant time enable the Govern-
ment to remove them altogether, regret to learn that in May
last the scale of valuations on which the duties are calcu-
lated has been considerably raised, and the pressure of
many of these duties thereby increased."
Objections were taken to the concluding part of the third
paragraph, as pledging the council to a statement of fact,
without sufficient grounds thereon.
After some discussion the report was adopted with only
two dissentients.
Lord STANLEY, on rising, was received with cheers—He
said that he had not had the honour of being in that room
before, but he sincerely hoped this would not be the last
time. He had attended with the intention of being a listener
only, but if any remarks of his could be of service ho thught
there would be more presumption in refusing to speak than
in offering them. Three or four subjects had been alluded
to bearing on certain questions with which he had had offi
daily to deal. He meant those which had reference to India.
First, with reference to the question of Customs duties, on
which the discussion had taken place. Perhaps it might
do something to settle the difficulty if he said that to his
mind the passage referred to, although the words might
appear ambiguous, did not express any opinion that the Cus-
toms did not affect the commerce of the country. The pro-
position contained in the report was this, that they did not
unjustly affect it; meaning that they did inflict a certain
amount of injury, but that it was an i❑jury inevitable,
and which was inflicted simply because it was necessary for
the revenue, and therefore for the good government of India.
Mr Heyworth, in advocating the repeal of these Customs
duties, did not go into the more difficult question of wha

was the tax that could be substi,uted for these duties with

out an accompanying injury to those who paid it. He did
not suppose any tax could be a pleasant thing for both high
and low. The millennium of no Custom-houses and 20 per
cent, off the property tax was, he th tight, so distant as not
to be within the reach of political prophecy. These Customs
duties were not very high, nominally 3 per cent., and much
less in reality ; but they were open to this objection, that
they gave a certain protection to the native as against the
English manufacturer. This was, of course, objec-
tionable on principle; but that, as against our command of
capital and skilled labour, had not rendered the native com-
petition very formidable. However, he apprehended that
every English financier would be of opinion that as soon as
these duties could be got rid of they ought to be. The
question was, how soon could this be done. There was
one claim which Indian financiers considered to be a prior
claim on our resources, and that was the Indian income
tax, because, difficult as the income tax was to collect under
schedule D in this country, the difficulty was tenfold in-
creased when they came to deal with native merchants and
traders. It was feared, when first proposed, that it would
meet with great opposition. They did not oppose it, but
he fancied they evaded it to a pretty considerable extent.
Laughter.) Also because it was imposed in the first
instance only for a limited time, and from the strong ex-
pressions of opinion that it would not require to be renewed,
the income tax had the first claim upon the Indian Ex-
chequer. If the state of finance should allow it, these
Customs duties had the next strongest claims for repeal.
The question really depended upon whether they remained
at peace, and in an Oriental country it was utterly im-
possible to speak with ordinary safety, but they never had
an abler Governor-General, and never had a Calcutta
Administration mere thoroughly peaceable in its inten-
tions, and with a more fixed determination not to carry out
that policy of annexation so much discussed 15 years ago.
(Hear, and cheers.) They never had more profound tran-
quillity or better prospects for the future than they had at
present. The experience of the last few years had shown
that the revenues of Irdia were considerably more elastic
than it used to be common to think they were. Another
Indian topic, as he understoood the report of the council,
was that of Indian currency. It did not go into the per-
plexing question of a double currency, but simply proposed

to make gold a legal tender to a limited amount as silver
was in England. It was not a question upon which he
would like to pledge himself, but as at present advised, he
failed to see any objeotion to such a measure as one that

might be safely adopted. As to proposed new dues at
Singapore, ho knew there had been two opinions on that
question, bat on the whole he was inclined to think that
the view which the Chamber took (that of supporting the
dues) was correct. Those dues were no departure from the
principle of free trade. As to the desirability of reforming
the courts of justice at Rangoon, he fully supported the
views of the Chamber. It was a country for which he be-
lieved there was a very great future, He had long looked
further to the time when all that large territory lying east
of Calcutta should-be constituted into a more independent
Government, and separate Lieutenant-Governor. It would
he believed remove many causes of complaint. In passing
ou to the question of the consolidation of Customs, ho did
not wish to pronounce a positive opinion. He thought
clearly that Mr Horsfall had so fairly drawn the battle, and
he certainly thought it reasonable and requisite that the
matter should be tried over again. At the same time he
thought they might carry consolidation too far. He was
assured it had not answered as was expected in the case of

the War Department. He now came to the question upon
which he had the misfortune to differ with the Chamber,

and with Mr Horstall--that was the question whether rail-

way companies should be allowed to become owners of
steam vessels. He wished to say that at present there was

no absolute prohibition, but it was left to the Select Com-
mittee to exercise their discretion on the understanding

that they stated the reason upon which such privileges

were granted. This, however, had become a mere matter
of form. He thought that railway companies should be

allowed tho privilege—if they could run vessels cheaper
than other parties the public would be the gainers, and if
they could not they would not try. (Hear.) With reference
to the question of a cheaper local postage, he was inclined
to doubt the expeaiency of the proceeding. They should
rather seek inercazcd facilities of postage, but not interfero