The Sun.
London, England, 1852-06-16 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 15.
(Continued from ou!AqfTioon Edition of yesterday.)

BIAYNOOTII.

Mr. KEOGH wished to know from the Hon. Member for
North Warwickshire if he intended to proceed with the
Maynooth order which he had managed to keep on the paper
since the 21 of February.— ( Hear.)
Mr. SPOON-ER said the debate was not adjourned in the
first instance with his consent; but he stated last night, and
he repeated now that he took the division upon the question
of adjournment this morning as a division upon the main
question.
Mr. KEOGH hoped that the lion. Member would move
that the.order be discharged.
Mr. SPOONER was not prepared to take that course.
Mr. KEOGH—Then the Hon. Gentleman abandons the
whole concern.
Mr. BOUVERIE protested against its being understood
that the division on the adjournment was to be taken as a
division on the main question.

The SPEAKER here informed the House that there was
no question before it.
Mr. HAMILTON moved that the report of the Commit-
tee of Ways and Means be brought up.
Mr. WILLIA.MS was sorry that the question had been
given up, and declared his belief that the abandonment Would
not satisfy the country. It was his intention to have Voted
for the inquiry, as he believed it was the wish of the Ro-
man Catholics to have it, and he regreared that he had not
had an opportunity of voting upon the main question.
After a few words from Mr. ELLIOT,
• Mr. HENRY HERBERT insisted that the Hon. Member
for North Warwickshire ought at once to move that the
order be discharged.—(Hear.)
party sincerely wished to
havUreihMeljsuljTeZct said,bro ugiihtthe Irishbefore the Howe again, why not
koerofthde._(lleln.)
delay
arrange with his Hon. Friend the Member for North War-
wickshire to let it come 00. He believed, however, that they
Y 'would not make interminable
speeches not
for
Colonel THOMPSON was anxious to come to a bond fide
decision upon this subject, as he • was pledged to his consti-
tuents not to vote in opposition to the College of Maynooth.
After a few words from Mr. MANGAN and Captain
SCOBELL,sinthceerse;
Mr. SOTHERON said the character of the House was
being compromised by the manner in which this question was
being carried on, and he had therefore intended last night to
move that the debate be adjourned for three months, but,
owing to the empty state of the benches, he abstained from
doing so. He begged to give notice that in the event of
the debate being resumed, he should move that amend-
ment.— (Hear, hear.)
Mr. KEOGH defended the Irish Members from the charge
of insincerity in desiring the continuance of this debate. The
fact was that the insincerity was on the side of the Govern-
ment, and he would, with the permission of the House, show
this to be the case. The Government had sent candidates
to Ireland, and in many instances had supplied those
candidate with money or with letters of introduction. He
could mention, for instance, that the Secretary for Ireland
had assisted one of the eadidates in this way, and the House
might form some opinion of the sincerity of the Government
when he told them that their candidates pledged them-
selves, as public men, to support the continuance of the
Maynooth grant, and vote for the repeal of the Ecclesiastical
Titles Bill. A Noble Lord, a Member of this House, had been
sent over to contest Dungarvon, and in his address he dis-
tinctly stated that he was favourable to the Maynooth
grant, and opposed to the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill.--
(Hear, hear.) Now he wished to Lek the Noble
Lord the Secretary for Ireland whether he had not
furnished the candidate with letters of introduction—money
he did not want? Again the county of Waterford was
being contested by Mr. Hutchinson, who was
supported by all the influence of the Govern-
ment, and in his first address he stated that
he was in favour of the Maynooth grant, and ready to vote
for the repeal of the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill. This address
he issued in the Morntee,
g but he afterwards saw a clergyman
of the Established Church, and an address came out
in the afternoon without the passage to which he referred.—
(Hear, hear.) The fact was the Government was a mass of
insincerity, and the session of 1853 would prove as unsatis-
factory to their misguided supporters as the session of 1852.
Lord NAAS was quite willing to answer the general ques-
tion of the Hon. and Learned Member. The speech which
they had just heard from him was only another illustration
of the deadly hostility which he entertained to all Govern-
ments, but with regard to the accusations which it contained,
ha begged to etatei that he entirely denied them.—(Hear,
hear.) He had never supplied any candidates with either
letters or money, while his official duties would not allow
him the time to write their addresses.—(tisar.) As for
the Noble Lord who was a candidate for Dungarvon, he
had not the honour of his acquaintance, neither had he ever
spoken to him; but, nevertheless, he must be permitted to
state that he could see no inconsistency in a gentleman being
a supporter of Lord Derby's Government, and yet not prepared
to withdraw the Maynooth grant or vote in favour of the
continuance of the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
For his own part he should have voted for the
motion of the Ron. Member for North Warwickshire, and
he would take that opportunity of publicly announcing
that be was not prepared without further inquiry to vote for
a repeal of the Maynooth grant.—(llear, hear.)
Captain CORRIE said that he left the House this morn-
ing upon the understanding that no vote would be taken on
the main question, or he' should have remained in his
seat.— (Hear, hear. )
Mr. B. OSBORNE was surprised to hear the Noble Lord
the Secretary for Ireland taunt his Hon. and Learned Friend
the Member for Athlone with being an opponent
to all Governments. His Hon. and Learned' Friend was
only the consistent opponent of those Governments
which showed utter indifference to the wants of
Ireland, and was rejoiced that Ireland had at
length an advocate in that House who had the ability, the
courage, and the will to make her wants known. The
Noble Lord was not accused of writing the addresses of the
candidates, but of working upon them in an underhanded
manner.—(Hear, hear.) The Government was in fact no-
thing but an organized hypocrisy, and that hypocrisy was
nowhere so disgustingly manifested as it was at this moment
in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He appealed to the Hon.
Member for North Warwickshire to, move that the order be
discharged for the sake of protecting his own reputation.
' Major BERESFORD deprecated the waste of time in-
curred by this Maynooth question. With regard to thenb-
servation of the Honourable and Gallant Member
who last addressed the House, that the Go-
vernment were indifferent to the wants of Ireland,
he could assure the House and the country that when the
proper time arrived Government would be found ready and
willing to redress such of the grievances in Ireland as might
be proved in Parliament.--(hear, hear.) ,
Mr. BOUVERIE again annealed to the Hon. Member for
North Warwickshire to discharge the order.
Mr. SPOONER said he was satisfied with the division last
night, and he did not intend to take any further steps in the
matter himself.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HEYWOOD wanted to know some definite line of
Ministerial policy on Maynooth.
Mr. HEADLAU thought Mr. Spooner ought to give an
answer to the question which had been put to him.
Mr. SPOONER said it was not his intention to take any
further step.
Mr. HINDLEY observed that he moved the adjournment
last night on the ground of common sense.
The report shen received.
MP FEARGUS O'CONNOR.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE nominated the following Select Com-
mittee on a petition respecting Feargus O'Connor, Esq. :
Mr. Walpole, Mr. Vernon Smith, Mr. Whiteside, Mr. Bainee,
Mr. Mills, The O'Gorinan Mahon, and Mr. Morgan John
O'Connell.
Mr. F. FRENCH thought some disrespect had been
shown to the lion. Member for St. Alban's (Mr. J. Bell)
in not placing him on the Committee, for he was the only
Member who bad taken an active part in this matter.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE said:hie name had been omitted, as it
was expected that his evidence would be of value to the
Committee.

MILITIA.
AND OUTRAGE IN Iite:LAND.
given to bring in aN ill to
SECRETARY at WAR, leave was
suspend the ballot for the militia.
Mr. NAPIER moved for leave to bring in a Bill to con-
tinue an Act of the 11th and 12th years of' her present Ma-
jesty for the better prevention of crime and outrage
in certain parts of Ireland. He said the necessity
for bringing in the Dill rested on undisputed and in-
On thec
controvertible facts.
The Act which it proposed to
imtio:iiEon
renew for a further period,
was originally passed in 1847,
when Ireland was in a state of disturbance, and it had since
been renewed d
the by the
bete Government from time
en e
to time, question now was whether the
circumstances at those separate periods, and the
circumstances as they now existed were so substan-
tially alike as to create a necessity for the Bill. It was easy
to get up a cry against coercion and gagging Bills among
those who had no actual knowledge of the provisions, but
he considered that if the 13111 was looked into it would be
found to be a wise and salutary measure.—( Hear, hear.)
The ordinary law of the land was quite inadequate to cope
with crime in Ireland at the present time. The Bill gave
power to the Lord-Lieutenant, with the advice of the Privy
Council, to proclaim an....
y particular locality, and to send
down an additional Police force, and in certain localities where
crime was worst, to
; Put in force the principle of the old
Saxon law of charging the locality with the cost of the con-
stabulary, in order to
Make the inhabitants take an inte-
rest in the preveOsion of outrage. There was nothing coercive
in a provision of that sort. The Bill also applied the White-
boy code to those districts which were in an insurrectionary
state. Thera was al.
' ,an important provision which was
originally introduc4
ed by the Hon. Member for Hull, making
persons who harboured felons amenable to justice. The
surrender
Bill also enabled the Lord-Lieutenant to compel the
of fire.ams
3 in proclaimed districts, and to pre-
vent their being carried, except by persons properly licensed.
This would put a stop to the practices of these persons, who
laid in wait even in broad noon day to take the blood of in-
nocent menlt the Act, which ad worked well and had
was allowed to
been administered without harshness and severity,
expire, the House would remove the
only protection against outrage and crime in
Ireland, and leave both property and life in a
state of insecurity.
He therefore thought he was not
only justified, but beund in every sense of responsibility, to
ask for the renewal of the Act. He thought it would be
most injudicious to permit the cessation of those proclamations
or the Lord-Lieutenant which were now in force, and had
never, except in one case, been asked to be revoked. It was
true there was no general disturbance in Ireland, but there
existed a standing confederacy, which took advantage of
every grievance, and of which Englishman could have no
idea; and he believed, indeed, very few understood its orga-
nization or real nature yet. It had complete unity of action,
and was proved to have extended its operation to Manchester,
Birmingham, Liverpool, and other large towns. It fastened
itself wherever a wrong was supposed to have been com-
mitted for the purpose of redressing it ; it created such a reign
of terror in the country that evidence for a prosecution could
not be obtained ; and if a person did venture to give evidence
he and his family were intimidated by threatening notices.
So great was its influence, that even individuals of respect-
ability and standing were obliged to succumb to it, and hand
over large sums of' money. Everything in fact was absorbed
in the vortex of a great confederacy. That being so, the
Government would be a most unworthy one which left the
country without protection from a confederacy of such mag-
nitude. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman concluded by
moving for leave to b • in Bill to continue the Crime and
ring a
Outrage Act.
11.1 r. LAWLESS having opposed the first introduction
of the Crime and Outrage Act, he felt it his dil*rcegii7;
pose this attempt to continue its operation.
in
this Bill
was not fair of the Attorney-General to
bringt.et of which
at so late a period of the session, the
eff
' Members in
course of proceeding would be to keep Irish
town two or three weeks before the eml of the Perna-
newt, depriving them of all opportunity of addressing their
•
constituents before the general election. He should give
theca every opposition in his power. which had
Mr. SCULLY w e this Parliament,
ae sorry to se
coercing Ireland, Was
commenced in 18'47 the bystein of
also ending its existence in the ;Apia course of legislation
Co.
They lied it in evidence before the Crime and Outrage C ins
usittee, which had just . been sitting, that this Act had proved
OA ii3t9l"4blQ 4114anCe in IttanY Iltr W
'Qi Itelatitd, aid he

thought i was scarcely fair that the Government
should endeavour to bring in a :Bill of this na-
ture for districts in which crit me was gradually
decreasing both in the number and qi aality of the offences,
There was scarcely a quarter session sr assizes throughout
the whole of Ireland, in 1851, and- in. the spring of 1852,
where the judges had not dismissed tl se Juries, congratula-
ting them on the absenee of crime. With regard to the
Ositne and Outrage Committee, he agreed that the result of
its labours was to make out some sort of a case for the Go-
vernment as re'garded a small part of the country, but even
in that Committee the Government were obliged to withdraw
a motion which had originally been made to insert in their
report to the House a recommendation to renew this Act.
It. was, in fade an entirely party measure. The Govern-
ment had refused to . remove or meddle in any way with
the ceases of.these evils, and it was unfair of them to he so
eager to coerce the evils themselves. He would give his de-
termined, opposition to. this Bill, and he hoped that the Go-
vernment, seeing the futility of hoping to pass this Bill,
would withdraw it, as they had done many others.
Mr. SHARMAN. CRAWFORD said he had always op 7
posed coercive measures, and he should therefbre oppose this
Bill. He believed that 'agrarian outrages sprang entirely
from the disordered state of the relations between landlord
and tenant, audit would be useless to attempt any measures
of this sort unless they applied themselves to' remedy the
causes which led to these outrages.
Mr. ANSTEY considered this Bil Las entirely useless. It
would not touch the evils against which it was directed. The
only persons who would obey the Bill.when it passed into
law would be those who were already loyal subjects, and
those who were not loyal subjects would neither obey nor be
coerced by this law. It was a milk-and-water, Seless mea-
sure.—(Divide, divide.) Hearing that crY, he should cer-
tainly move that the debate be adjourned.
The g,allery was then cleared for a division, bat none took
place. On returning to the gallery -we found" '
Mr. KEOGH opposing the Bill on the ground that it was
crhel and tyrannical, and no longer necessary; from the. de-
crease. of crime in Ireland. It had been proved before, the
:Committee that the crimes were'confined to a small area of
about 10 miles, and yet they were now, called on, for this
reason only, to inflict a Bill of this nature on, the whole of
Ireland. Yet, even in this district the testimony of the chief
witness (Mr. Major) called by the Government showed• that
this. Act lead always. been perfectly abortive, ant. had no
effect whatever on any but loyal and peaceful subjects.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he.con-
sidered this Bill was not one of coercion, but a measure of
police. There were at present in the gaols of Ireland a great
number of Orisoners under this Act, who, if it were not re-
newed, would be free to-morrow. Her Majesty's Govern-
ment were prepared at this moment to introduce remedial
measures for Ireland, but they could not do that if they
neglected to insure the state of order and tranquillity which
it was necessary to foster, or if they gave a triumph to those
who flagrantly violated not only the law of 'the coun-
try, but also the principles on which the civilization
of every country depended. The Honourable and
Learned Gentleman had first called this Bill tyrannical, and
next cited evidence to prove that it was futile. To show the
utter nullity of the Act the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
bad quoted part of the evidence of Mr. Major, but if he went
a little further into the evidence' given by that gentleman,
whs had been extolled, and justly, as being a very eminent
authority on the subject, he would find that his evidence
was in favour of anything but a less restrictive power. He
would find that that gentleman was in favour of a
more extended system of domiciliary' visits, that
he spoke of the beneficial effects of the In-
surrection Act—though he acknowledged that he
would be slow to recommend the renewal of that
Act, supposing that some efficient alteration were made in
the law. The Government, in the present state of affairs,
could not take upon themselves the responsibility of allow-
ing this Bill suddenly to cease, and of letting loose upon the
country those who were criminals only under its operation.
The sentiments of the Government with respect to Ireland
were those which they had always attempted to express out
Of office • their policy with regard to that country would be a
policy Which would attempt to develope the resources of the
country, but they felt that they had no chance of accom-
plishing this unless they took every measure in their
power to ensure the tranquillity of the country and vindicate
the majesty of the law.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion ... 140
Against it ...
Majority ...
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
The Sheriffs of London appeared at the bar of the House, to
present a petition from the Mayor, Aldermen, and Common
Councilmen of London, praying for an alteration in the oath
taken by Members of Parliament, and for the abolition of all
religious tests ; also another petition praying the House to
pass a general measure for the whole metropolis to restrain
the smoke nuisance.

-121

The House then adjourned at Ten minutes to Five anti;
Seven o'clOck.

The sitting was resumed at Seven o'clock.
Petitions were presented by. Mr. Lana from the Pro-
testant women of Camberwell, praying for an inspection
of nunneries; 'by Lord LEWISHAM, from Wolverhamp-
ton, for repeal of the attorneys' certificate duty. "
Mr. HUME moved for returns giving an account of
the manner in which ahe sum of 3531. 17s. ld., charged
in the civil contingencies for 1850, and the sum of 819/.
35., charged in the civil contingencies of 1851, were ex-
pended, under the several heads, for the funeral of the
the late Duke of Cambridge; returns showing the nature
of losses sustained by Sir R. Sandford, at the Cape of
Good Hope, for which 5,000/. was paid from the civil
contingencies of 1851; returns or accounts of the parti-
culars of the slim of 3,612/. 78. 9d., paid as costa' and
expenses on account of the Smithfield-market Removal
Bill, charged in the civil contingencies of 1851; of the
particulars of 7,000/, charged on account of bills of
cods astolicitor to the Attorney-General in lists ro•
lating to charities in the civil contingencies of 1851; and
of the particulars of the manner in which 2,000/ was
expended in Ireland in obtaining statistical information
relative to the agricultural produce of Ireland; and
copy of the order under which the inquiry' was con-
ducted, and an abstract of the information collected.
Agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. HUME copies or extracts of
the correspondence were ordered relative to a treaty ne-
gotiated.with the Sultan of Sooloo; also copy of the said
treaty, and of any papers explaining why the ratifica-
tions of the same were not duly exchanged; and of all
papers relative to the late capture of the Islands of Soo-
too by the Spanish forces, and of the annexation of that
territory to the Spanish Crown.
DR. REID AND THE VENTILATION OF THE
HOUSE.
Mr. HINDLEY asked the Chief Commissioner of
Works what course the Government intended to pursue
in reference. to the report and recommendation of the
Committee on the Ventilation and Lighting of the
House; and whether Dr. Reid was to be restored to the
position he occupied before 1846, and to have the clierge
of ventilating and lighting the .House and its appurte-
nances; under the supervision of the Chief Commissioner
of Works,. assisted by a Committee of observation, to
be appointed' annually by the House,in order to report
.their opinion as to the way in which the li:tam:gement is
conducted? •
Lerd 3: MANNERS said that, in the opinion of the
Government, .the recommendation of the Select Corn •
mittee was a very wise and prudent one, and there was
every disposition. on the part of the Government to
carry it into effect. In answer to the seeth] question,
which referred‘to the competent person alluded to in the
recoMinendation of the 'Select' Committee, at present he
Was not in a position to say who that competent person,
in the opinion of the Government, Was likely to be.
At the same. time he could not sit down without ex-
pressing his individual opinion, that the system of venti-
lation suggested by Dr.
Reid had not received that
amount of fair play which would enable it to be properly
judged of.--(llcar, hear.) He did not wish it to be
understood tnat he was now expressing more than an
individual opinion; but it would be unjust to Dr. Reid
if ho sat down Without orpre'Lsing that opinion on his
behalf.'
- `:MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
A messon,ger from the Lords brought up the follow-
in Bills. to which their Lerdships.bad agreed:—
I3eaconsfield and Redhill Road.
Manchester, Buxton, Matlock, and Midlands Junction
Railway.
le.'ettering and Northampton Road.
Railway Passengere' Assurance Company.
Greenfield and Shepley Lane Head Read.
Leeds Waterworks (No. 2).
Tremor° Ennbankment.
Limerick Iznprovernent and Market.
Ipswich Dock, without amendment.
Differential' Dues. •
Belfast Harbour, with an amendment.
Blyth and Tyne Railway.
Kingston and Sheetbridge Roads, with ameedinents._

EXPULSION OF BRItISII SUBJECTS FROM
THE AUSTRIAN DOMINIONS.

Mr. C. ANSTEY rose to move the following resolu-
tion, of which he had given notice :—" That this House
recognising the undoubted right of the Queen's subjects
resident in foreign countries to the continual protection
of her Majesty, in respect of their liberty, property, and
other personal rights, and, considering that, in the case
of the Rev. Messrs. Wingate, Smith, and Edwards, ar-
bitrarily expelled from the Austrian dominions in the
month of January last, with their wives and children,
under circumstances involving much sacrifice of property
and other hardships to the sufferers, those rights were
violated, and that no redress has been hitherto ob-
tained for the violation, is of opinion that the.case is
one calling for prompt and earuest measures on the
part of her Majesty's Government." He understood it
was the intention of the Government to take measures
for putting a summary atop to discussions upon the
case, but if they did resort to a count out, be was sure
they would feel the consequences at no distant period.
Not two years ago the House had been called upon to
record their votes against a most un-English resolution
adopted in another place on the occasion of the Greek
claims, the mover of that resolution heir), the Noble Lord
now at the head of the Government, and on the 15th of
March last, soon after Lord Malmesbury, to the misfor-
tune of this country, was installed in office, his Lordship
informed Count Buol that he highly valued the friendly
feeling expressed by Prince Schwarz3nberg OD the part
of Austria towards this country. At that time Lord
Malmesbury was fully aware of the facts which ho cefee
Anstey) was about to bring before the House. ne
Government were making a premature and indeeent at_
tempt in order to prevent his doing do, but,"
while the
issue would be indifferent to him, it would redound only
to the discredit of her Majesty's Ministers, M:cirs.
Smith and Wingate were twohai i
ministers,,ettld in the Scotch
church at Perth, where they
Edwards was in Lemberg in 184.8. but iiiollBlB. Mr.
men had settled in the AusGtrian' dotnain—iotn"sreewigtehnftulell" permission of the Austrian evernmeat undertuLe
stnhoeirier stptliaruitutac,lnfuyncetairosns,i_first two having rseijed
Hungary, beco:ae I_ Perth, had, by the law of
baoatafiaEz ; all of them had ise-
quired property,
tne country,
pass there the rest ,„ , in
of t no doubt, intended to
and the' real and pee." .1
Buol
days. On the loda of De-
cember, 1851, Count
tawarndrdopte: the Noble Lord
the Member
Foreign
-office,
tai:erston), then at the
head of the
way of retaliation upon En'aland fern.porrma,eedt-
himKthat by
and hij companions the Austrian Govertnrecetlintginruletdl
to subject English travellers, however ineoeent of acts to
the Prejudice of the Austrieu Government, to what ki°
41104 exception' utea*Nrea -
ptecittitwo.