The National Register.
London, England, 1817-02-24 00:00:00

FEBRUARY 24.

COURIE OI•' KING'S BENCH.

Mr. CASnERD bronglikin a Bill for facilitaling the progress
of business in the coiirt of King's Bench. Read a first time.
Second reading on Wlay.
PUBLIC EkECUTIONS.

Mr. HOLFOR n presented a Petition from John and Thomas
Waters, against the fleww ney of public executions, and pry-
ing for some other mode of punishing crimes. Ordered to lie
on the Table.

PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.

Sir Pit %sets Buniserr postponed his motion on this subject
till after Easter. The Hon, Baronet then presented Petitions
from Spitalfields, Rippon in Yorkshire, and Carlisle and its
vicinity. Laid on the Table.
Lord COCHR A N E presented a Petition from Narborongh, is
the county of Leicester, %%hick caused much animated and
personal discussion. His Lordship took occasion to quote
Blackstone in favour of the doctrine of universal suffrage,
skewing, that as the people were subject to the laws, they
ought to have a voice in making them. In Scotland there
were 270 t) electors. and a population of 2,009,000 persons.
Could it, Lordship asked, be contended that the people of
Scotland were represented, nr had they voice in making the
laws? They had not, and therefiwe were not bound to obey
them! ( Lout cries qf order, ord,:r ! Chair, chair !)
Thr SPEAkillt said, the Noble Lord must be aware such
language vould not be tolerated.
Lord Coca it ANC. —" If the House would have allowed ma
to complete my sentence —"
wha si.eaneas.-- the Noble Lord had made it too can.
plate.
Lord Contriver.-- I should have added, " according to
illackstone's theory." The Noble Lind then continued He
agreed with the people, who always thought coolly, and
derided wisely.—( Hear, hear.) He was nut equal to the
Hon. and Learned Golden' in who had accused him of mis.
leading and duping the people; but he must say, that the
Heti. and Learned Gentleman, when making these assertions,
should have had some respect for the opinions held by himself
on former occasions. The Learned Gentleman was now a
representative of a rotten bormiLds ; tint at the time he held
the doctrines from which lie had departed, he entertained
hopes of being the representative for W e maim ter. He alluded
to what had passed at a dilater which took place at the Lon-
don Tavern, in June, Pitt On that occasion the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman clelarcil his Opinion to be, that sittilage
should be as extensive as taxation. That such was the lion.
Gentleman's political creed at that time, he could skew under
his own hand writing. " I will ask him, is it not his own
hand vvi Ring ?"—Here the Noble Lord held a paper to sir.
Brougham, and there were loud cries of Under from all parts
of the House.)—The Noble Lord cooteoded he did nut know
whether he was quite !aegis )—but he %%mild read
what was written. 'Elie Hon. Learned Gentleman, ac-
cording to the paper, said .it that that suffrage and
taxation should go hand in hind. Now who was their. that
did not pay taxation, even in the shoes hr wore, and the bread
he ate? Tile Hoe. Gentleman also said, that Parliament ala as s
did more good in the last year of its sitting than it did the
other is. and that it was becanse they were conscious they
would soon have to meet their roust &wilts. These were the
opii 'nos of the lion. and Li mined Gentleman then. He had
no wish to impute motive to tie. lion. and Leal tied Gentle-
man; but it was somewhat singular, that lie should publish
this his political creed just at the time when it was supposed
that he Lord Cochrane, %sunkl be expelled, and that there
would be a vacancy for the city of Weaminster. He culled
the people toe deceived and the duped.; and those the de-
ceivers, among whom the most hoomira4k men were classed,
one of whom he should always uc must happy to claim the ho-
nour of being acquainted with : a man who had never beim Of
any party; he meant Major ('arts% right. --(A gen, rat laugh.)
Mr. Beta:wok st always felt pain in sneaking of himself;
at the same time he trusted the House wadd grant him its In-
dulgence on the present occasion.—( Mar, hI ur.)—W litist he
thanked the Noble Lord for the frank manure in which he had
brought forward this most unfounded eharge against him—
one more unfounded, lie would be hoist to say. was never
brought against a public man. He did nut complain of those
who had pin the brief into the hands of the Noble Lord, nor
did he complain of the Noble Lord for muttering himself to be
misled by those persons. But he did blame their impatient,
in not waiting a few days, when they would have had his fuli
opinion before them ; as on the night in which he mode the -
observations which had called down the present censures of
the Noble Lord, he guarded himself most particularly against
giving any pledge as to the vote which he should gin e on this
great and must important question. The Hon. Gentleman
then entered piton detail of what passed at the dinner, n bids
the Noble Lord hail alluded to, and denied that any change
had since token place in his opinion. He then said, and be
said now, that taxation should bound suffrage ; but lie did
not mean the taxation paid by beggars in the street. He
said then, and he now repeated, that, in his opinion, direct
taxation towards the support oh' Government should entitle to
%mirage. Six years ago he held the same opinion, though lie
then said it would be politic to take what could be gut of re-
t'orni, even it' it were confined to the throwing open of sonic
of the close boroughs, and thus extending the representation.
He recommended this coin se then, bi cause he thought it
would be politic to get a rooting first ; and having dune so,
then to proceed to the ultimate object. Dud the Noble Lord
now suppose that by producing a speech made by hint at a
tavern dinner, lie should induce him to swerve from any opi.
nion which he might have since taken tin fear of a chart:it
of inconsistency ; and, that under that fear he should be now
deterred from giving his vote and opinion fairly and conscien.
tiously—( //ear.) As to the mean insinuation of the Nohle
Lord, that for the sake of occupying a scat %%hada the Noble
Lord h d tilled, or for the gratification of being brought into
the Ilim•e on the shoulders of a mob, as sonic othia s had been,
lie A% mild give op his opinion, he treated it with the contempt
it merited.-1 /fear, hear.)—The Hon. Gentleman concluded
with expressing his regret at the folly and madness which had
been displayed, and the base expedient which had been
adopted to separate people, and to gratify party feelings, and
the ambition and party porimses ofa few individuals.
:Mr. %Vasil) regretted that it slimild have been stated, at
any time, that a little step might be granted n ithosit
or that a little obtained at first shookd satisfy first amt.; lie
was persuaded, that to make any innovation in our Coostitis-
tion would lie ;attend, d w ith (huger; and, therefore, the lirst
step should meet his firm opposition.
Sir F. lit nnerr did not r (insider that supporting the first
steps to Parliamentary Reform should tie sot 'ken as to pledge
any man against going flatlier if fonnil in eessary ; but he is as
persuaded, it' such a lieform were adopted as should plaid
and voistroul the public purse, the great bulk of the pimple
would be satisfied. IVitli respect to the fears which an lion.
Gentleman (Mr. IVard) seemed to ono lain of any i iiiiii %dation&
in the Conmtitittion why, the Irish Parliament had been pur-
chased, and an hut:died new Lumbers had becu added to this

FEBRUARY f 241

Parliament. Were not these innovations in the Constitution
Yet the Hon. Gentleman hail supported these measures.—
( flier, kear.)--With respet t to the subject which gave rise
iiiii eiliately to this conversation, hr was sorry to tied persons,
%din leak wished well to the cause, thus dividing and weak•
ening the cause they advocated. As far as related to 14w es-
te:ono.: suffrage, 110 was persuaded, if suffrage was es-
teuded to direct tasatien, the people would be satisfied. and
nothing More would be heard of universal suticege.—Mbar,
leer.)
Mr. RR AN o) expressed his regret, that nttempte FllOlllll be
made by interested persons to introduce chinierieul and Vi-
iiunary schemes to Witte the great cause in which thee Were
all so mewl' interested. He also regretted much the ill timed
personal attack whirls had this night been made oil his lion.
Friend by the Noble Lord.
Mr. Cuewera was in favour of a rational reform.
Lard A. HAMILTON also supported the (eerie of reform,
and adverted to what had fallen from an Hon. Gentleman
opposite( Mr. Ward), who, lie said, ought to be th” last to
•,rpo e Parliameatary Reform, he having heels the friend and
supporter of Mr. Pitt's system of reform
Mr. WARD explained, and denied that lie had ever been a
friend to the qiiestiosi of reform.
Mr. CANNING COlllll nut join in the regret expressed by
lowa Gentlemen at the divisions which hail taken place be-
tween the advocates of this great measure. He was per.
waded they would never he overrun/iodate:l, the vat ious plans
proposed were so opposite. He could not however avoid
that the Noble Lord (Cochrane) had been hardly used liv his
faieuds ; fur of all the plans proposed Isis eertately had tire
majority out of doors, where all who had nothing were for
universal suffrage and annual parliaments; therefore, though
his plan would ultimately, if carried into effect, be productive
•f ruin, desolation, confiscation, and elestructiim, yet it was
the Noble Lord's plan, and let hiss stick to it. He invited
the Gentlemen on the other side, each of whom hail a pocket
plan of Reform of his own, to bring forward their whole steels
of haberdashery before Easter, Ili it the House might have
the benefit of them all, 011 the discussion of tho great Inestion.
Mr. 'l'tEßke WAS WO old stow to enter into sissy visionary
schemes of Reform ; what lie wished to do was to make the
House what it ought to be—the guardian of the people's
rights. (Inc thing lie must coinp.ain of; that W.1'1,11141 the
Right lion. Gentleman opposite should have of:se reed on the
differences vr 'licit existed on this side of the House, and take.:
upon himself to say that those difkrenees couid never be
aceonimodateel.--Did the Right Hni. Gentleman 111.. RR to
mounpolise all power or aecousinod•tieg diffetences.of opi•
pions its liiinseif.—llenr, tea;.,—Certainly he had great ta-
lents that w ay. If the Right Hon. Gentleinau woos I inform
the lieuse how he and his colleagues had accommodated
their differences, those on his side the House need not de-
spare; for no differences could ever be greater than those of
the noble Lord and the Right HMI. Gentleman who now at
by his side had heen.—/Icer, hear!
Mr. Li/TELE:TO"! defended the conduct of Mr. Ilrouttlntai,
mid contended, (lest the Noble Lord was unjustified so the
attack which he had this night made. With respect to the
Noble Lord, he WAS taunt welcome to inquire into bus (Mr.
Lyttletores) conduct, as he neither feared Isis enmity, nor
courted his friendship.
The petition was Oren brought up and read.
Lord COCIIR NNE, iii suovine that the, petition would be
laid on the table, said, lie had no personal motives tower('
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. In stating Ins former
opinions, he hail only wished to spew that the Hun. Gentle-
man was trot justified in speaking of the large body of the
people wimfavoured A iiiii ial Parliaineuts and Universal Sof-
frage in the disrespectfid terms lie had done. He hoped the
House would receive and entertain this subject, otherwise
the public would consider themselves as having great cause
of complaint. He trusted also that full circulation would be
Riven to the debases, and that the gallaries of the House
would 1w open to the public.—Order, order ! Chair, chair !
Mr. BROUGHAM again repeated, that his coolest would
be influenced either by the threats of those olio instructed
the Noble Lord, and whose tool the Noble Lent was, without
doors, or by the Noble Lord's speeches within doors. One
thing he most say, the Noble Lord had uttered sentiments
which spewed an intention to iatimidate the House. 'the
question of Reform was not to be .carrietl by intimidation;
and should the Noble Lord ever utter another sentence si-
milar to what he had this night thrown out, he( Mr. Brougham)
anxious as he was for Reform, would adopt one of two.
courses, either to confine the deLates within the walls of the
Honee, or to move to adjutant the question of Reform altoge-
t ber.—flearrat de, near!
The petition was then ordered to lie on the table.
CORN LAWS.
sir. DICKERSON {resented a petition from the owner' and
Occupiers of laud in iontersetshire and Gloucestershire, coin-
phi iiiiii g that the Corn Laws, as they at present stem!, did
not afford sufficient protection to the growers, and pray tog
for the adoption of some measure on the setbject.
Mr. Cuitwes could not approve of the prayer of this peti-
tion. He was ready to acknowledge that the distrestes of the
country could not be stated tee high ; but he was eoevineed
at the Swale time that it was not by giving bounties and keep-
ing tip the prices of corn, that these distresses could be ale-
rated.
The petition was ordered to lie on the table.
PORT 1111.-NEWR:V.
Mr. !Mot:Guam wished to know Wilt: the r it was the inten-
tion of tlic Government to allow the collector of the twit of
Newry, who had held that situation six y1:414.1111, to retire 1
upon All allowance of :1,001. a year.
Mr. Pact. was not aware that any arrangement had been
made nwthis subject ; but whenever lie did retire, lie is iOllll
retire ouly according to the regulations of the Act of Patina-

meat.
Mr. FITZGERALD said, any instrument of the Lord Lien-
tenant, giving a larger pension than allowed by the Act,
would tie illegal alkt
Mr. BINNETT moved for a return of the number of per- 1
sons now under sentience of death lie NewgatL, specifying:'
-their crimes; tic.—Agreed to.
SE.IMEN.
Mr. G.* WAtrituNnett proposed a vote of seamen.--Thei
Mon. Baronet obsi %eft, that the !IMAM' now prol•osed
mould exceed by about 1100 the number proposed during
former periods of peace. The nasither to bo voted would br
19,000 for sis loiter months, at the rate of W. (is. per month
per .nun. The greatest possible attention Jett) been paid to,
the Estimates. the reamen actuall► to be voted, would be
19,000, including boo marines. Ile sm.% ed accordingly.
Alr. Ttnott oliaierved, that the ra•n cAlculated in 1792,
VAS dl. per wan ;it afterwards tinned out to be 71. He
hoped, tneretine, that the present stuu of 61. lid. would not be
enrich below the mark.
Sir WAltatl4l3lll &unwed the Right Hoa. (iCatiCillalt-