The Sun.
London, England, 1855-02-20 00:00:00

considered the change was a very great improvement, and
must be very satisfeetory. But he wished to ask the hon.
gentleman whether it had struck him that the officers of
the army sent home from the Crimea were subjected to very
great expense. He would give the house a case which had
been related to him. It was the case of an officer who was
wounded in the Crimea by ricochet cannon ball a 9-pounder.
He saw the ball coming. and saw it enter the ground,
and thought it had not sufficient power to strike him ; but
it did strike him in the breast. Ho (Captain Boldero)
was speaking of facts related to him by the officer's bro-
ther. The ball struck him and knocked him from his
horse ; the medical men in the Crimea saw the wound was
of great severity, and he was ordered home. He (Captain
Boldero) had seen the individual himself in London, delicate
in appearance, but still in pretty good health. The wound
turned out badly afterwards, an ulcer formed in his chest,
and he was laid upon his back. He went to an eminent
medical man in London and stated his case. The opinion
of that medical man was, had the ball struck him lower
down, in the pit of the stomach, it would be instant death ;
that had it struck him higher up it would cause a linger-
ing death, but having struck him where it did he thought
he could cure him. H. made a deep incision in the chest,
and attended him twice a day. That man was paying two
guineas a day to th&t medical man for attending him, iu
the hope that he would cure him. Whereas, if there was
an hospital for officers of the army like those in Ports-
mouth and Plymouth, he would receive the best medical
attendance in the kingdom free of expense. The officer
had about 15s. a day, and he had to pay between two and
three guineas a day for medical attendance. There was
something rotten in the system when such a man was
obliged to pay a heavy expense in order to get the neces-
sary attendance. It was stated by the hon. member for
Aylesbury that the medical men in front of Sebastopol
had signed a round robin, offering their resignation to
Lord Raglan, though they were in presence of an enemy,
and if such a thing did occur it was mutiny. The soldiers
had dune their duty :as men with gallantry and bravery,
hand to band and foot to foot, and let them blame the re-
gimental officers as they liked, they and the men had done
the work. With regard to the state of recruiting, he
understood they were at that moment getting 1,000 a
week, a formidable number-52,000 a year. But what
were the casualties? Why the casualties were a 1,000 per
week. He did not pretend to say that the casualties in
the Crimea were a 1,000 a week ; but what he meant to
say was, that the casualties of the British army, including
the colonies, were a 1,000 a week ; and that being so, he
wanted to know how the army was to be recruited if the
war continued? In the course of these discussions allusion
hail been made to the Walcheren expedition, and an
attempt had been made to draw- a comparison between
that and the expedition to the Crimea. But the former
expedition had to encounter a notoriously bad climate,
but in the Crimea the climate was comparatively healthy,
and yet we had lest our troops. We had lost !them, not
through the climate, but from ever fatigue, from want of
food, from want of clothing, from want of medical attend-
ance. The climate of the Crimea was just as good as the
climate of England, and if we had fed and clothed the
troops well, most likely they would have been just as
healthy as if they were at home. The fact was, however,
this Government had undertaken what they could not per-
' form ; they had entered upon a war against Russia without
making proper arrangements—and what had been the 113-
sult ? Why, they had sent a formidable fleet to the Baltic,
which had done nothing ; they had sent an army to Varna,
which was cruelly reduced by disease; and, finally, they
had sent an army into the Crimea to fight three splendid
actions, without subduing the enemy. All these things
were admitted ; every blunder was admitted—for the Go-
vernment denied nothing ; and there could be no doubt
about it, that the whole action of the army and the ms.
nagement of its supplies had been a mass of confusion and
neglect from beginning to end. He yet hoped, however,
that the present Government would be enabled to get the
country out of the difficulty; but before they could do so
an effort must be made to invest the north of Sebastopol.
He did not wish to go into any other matters of detail,
but there was one incident he could not help referring to,
if only for a moment or two. Last July, while walking
along the banks of the Thames, he saw some barges load-
ing with porter, and he was told the porter was going out
to the Crimea. An order was afterwards issued, stating
that the porter would be supplied to the troops at half-
price, but he was informed when the porter reached COI*
etantineple there was no one to receive it, nor were there
any stores where it could be warehoused, and the porter
had to be brought back to England again. Now he should
be glad to know how that was. Didithe authorities order
it back because it was inferior in quality, or why?
Porter, ho thought, would be of great service to the
troops as a preservative of health—at least so he should
gather from the experience of a medical officer who had
served with the 91th Regiment in India. The mortality
in that regiment in 1840 was 96 per cont., whereas
in 1854 it had fallen to 16 per cent. ; and that improvement
the medical officer attributed partly to improved sanitary
arrangements, and partly to the introduction of porter
amongst the men, who were thereby induced to abandon
the use of spirituous liquors. Now there was no difficulty
about this porter ;it was a national beverage—it could he
obtained cheap—and he should like to know how it was
that the porter sent out last summer was returned home
instead of being distributed to the troops?
Mr. W. WILLIAMS should neither object to the num-
ber of men nor the amount of money asked for, but there
were parts of these estimates which they could not well
discuss then. For instance, they were told that the offices
of Secretary for War and Secretary at War were to be con-
solidated, and if that wore so, how could they be required
to vote the expense of both? He, however, had no wish
to complain of expense ; what he wanted was efficiency in
the execution of the office. The cost of these offices was
something like 70,0001. a year, and he ventured to say that
for that sum, if the two were combined, the business would
bo infinitely better done than it was at present. Only place
a proper person at the head of the War Department, as was
done iu France, and he should hare no fears for the re-
sult ; but in the meantime, until they were informed what
Government had determined upon, he thought this branch
of the estimates ought to be postponed. The hon. gentle-
man had referred to the change which had been made in
the clothing of the army. He (Mr. Williams) had made it
a rule to bring that question before the house for a num-
ber of years past, and, of course, he was not sorry to hear
that at length the clothing of the army was placed in the
hands of the Government, instead of the eoloael: in com-
mand. As far back aslB3l a committee reported upon this
very subject, and at that time the profit to tho colonel for
clothing the Grenadier Guards was 1,8001. ; but now he
hoped the system was irrevocably changed, and that the
colonels were provided fur as gentlemen and sol-
diers ought to be, instead of having to make up
their incomes by becoming the tailors of their own
regiments. Then, again, with regard to the emoluments
of general officers, that was a ground of the greatest possi-
ble complaint, for the system enabled Prince Albert to re-
ceive 2,200'. a year, while such men as Sir De Lacy Evans,
Sir Colin Campbell, and Sir Thomas Brown only received
1,1001. as the colonels commanding regiments. Where was
the justification for paying Prince Albert, who was no sol-
dier, so much more than those veteran officers, whom he
did not object to see provided for, when it was done in a
proper manner ? The hon. gentleman had also referred to
the system now going on for reducing the number of gene-
ral officers ; but although there was now a desire to reduce
their number, it appeared to him, upon looking closely
into the Queen's warrant, that there was a loophole left
for increasing the number in the event of the Minister
wishing it. We had now 350 general officers on the list,
whereas France, with an army of between 500,000 and
600,000 men, had only 255. Another matter which he
faund fault with was the preference given to the Guards
over regiments of the line. Why should a captain in the
Guards have the rank of a lieutenant-colonel in the line ?
He could only account for it by the fact that the Guards
wore principally officered by members of the aristocracy.
Again, look at the inequality in the pay of officers in the
Guards and officers in the line ; a lieutenant-colonel in the
Guards received 11. Gs. 9d. a-day, while an officer of simi-
lar rank in the line only received lie a day. It only re-
mained for him to observe that he thought the colonies
ought to provide their own local forces, without putting
this country to expense, and to repeat that he made no
objection to the 'umber of men or the amount of money
asked for them.

Mr. BENTINCK would not trouble the house with any
remarks upon the details of these estimates ; he merely
wished to make this one single remark—they had often
heard of the enormous expense attendant upon the mainte-
nance of an army, but when they compared the estimates
moved last year with those of the present year, they could
not fail to be surprised at the enormous sum of money
which had beenexpended in starving an army. But he hoped
now that there was a new Government there would bo a
better state of thiags, and that when they met next year
they would not be called upon to indulge in the sad reflec-
tions that they were compelled to do now. (Hear.)
Colonel B. KNOX declared that it was the course pur-
sued by the hon. member for Lambeth and the hon. mem-
ber for Montrose, and members of their class, that had
brought matters to their present state. The hon. member
for Lambeth, whose speech was a tirade against Prince
Albert, before he got up in that house to preach about the
condition of the army, should first thoroughly learn his
lesson in order that he might know what he was talking
about. The hon. member had made several gross mis-
takes. He forgot to tell the house that in the Guards there
were three battalions, and that each battalion was equal
to a regiment of the line ; but that would not suit the
tactics of the hon. member, who was little better than a
pettifogging economist. (A laugh.) Did not the hon.
member know what an officer in the Guards drew for al-
lowances? Did he draw for coals, candles, and so forth,
which were allowed to officers of the line ? No such thing ;
but it did not suit the hon. member's purpose to mention
those minor details. A captain in the Guards received
1201. a year, is the line he received 2001., and yet the
officers in the Guards had to find their own clothing—
everything,
in fact. (Hear.) He wished to put this
matter fairly to the honourable member. Well, then,
was it not disgraceful in him to talk iu the manner ho had
done ? Was he pursuing a straightforward course in thus
attacking officers in the Guards? Had the Guards done
their duty, oriLeal they not ? (Hear, hear.) They had,
and, having been connected with the army for 25 years,
ho could not sit there quietly and hear these pettifogging
charges made against a service to which he was proud to
belong. (Hear.) With regard to the clothing, no doubt
the change which had been made was a very proper one ;
but though that was so, he must decline to give the hen.
member for Lambeth the credit of it, which he wished to
claim, while ho begged leave to tell the hon. and gallant
member that there wore grave doubts whether the country
would not lose by the change. At the same time, it was
only rightthat colonelsof regiments should borelieved from
their clothing responsibilities, and their pay placed upon a
settled footing. (Hear, hear.) He concurred most fully
with what had fallen from that hen. and gallant member
for Huntingdon (Geller d Peal.) Government bad engaged
in the war without sufficient men or adequate materials for
carrying it on. They did it with their eyes open. They
did it after the military departments of the country had
been improperly reduced through the squabbling over the
estimates by men of the school to which the hon. member
for Lambeth belonged, and now that they had got into
war they found that their moans were totally inadequate
for carrying it on. lie said, then, that the responsibility
rested with the Government. If be was not misinformed,
in December, 1853, when war was imu inept, a conference
was held at the War-office, which was attsended by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Secretary-at-War, the
Minister for the Colonies, and the Commander-in-Chief.
Public rumour said the distinguished officer at the head of
our army was called upon by the conference to give an
opinion as to what number of men could be furnished, or
would be required in case of emergency. What number
that distinguished officer mentioned he knew not ; but if
the general commanding-in-chief of the army advised the
executive government that he was totally deficient in every
material necessary for carrying on a great war, then the
responsibility which rested upon the Government Was
doubly great. That was a question which ought to be
solved. (Hear.)
Lord SEYMOUR wished to say ono or two words rather
in defence of an absent member than upon the details of
the estimates. The hon. and gallant member who had just
sat down had told the committee that the state of the army

was owing to the conduct and perseverance of the hon
member for Montrose. Now, he should like the hon. and
gallant member to look over The votes of past years and
point out to him any one where the hon. member for Mon-
trose had proposed a reduction of men. He had been in
the house for a good number of years, and he had never
seen a Government come forward and ask for a certain
number of men without receiving a grant of that number.
So far, therefore, the charge was unjust ; but it was unjust
on other grounds also. He had served for throe years con-
secutively on committees on estimates for the army, the
navy, and the ordnance, along with the hon. member for
Montrose, and ho had never found that hon. member pro-
pose any vote which tended to reduce the efficiency of
the service. Ho always insisted, however, on the right
of the house to see how the money was spent. (Hear,
hear.) It was a very difficult thing, and a very disagree-
able thing indeed, to be always objecting to payments
offered to officers and men of distinction. The fa-
vourite estimates of the hon. member for Montrose were
the Conservative estimates of the year 1834-5 ; and when-
ever ho wanted to taunt a Government with their esti-
mates„be referred back to those model estimates of the
Conservative party. (Hear, hear.) The present was a
time when no one wished to reduce estimates. We wanted
especially at this time to maintain an effective cavalry
force. Our present cavalry amounted to no more than 9,000.
What a miserable force with which to go to war with Rus-
sia. (Hear, hear.) And then of those 9,000, three regi-
ments were household troops, who were little more OI
beef-eaters. (Hear, hear, aid laughter.) It seemed to him
that it might be right for the sake of the splendour of the
court to keep up one magnificent regiment, in which the
horses were so great and the men so heavy as to be quite
unserviceable in the position in which they were wanted
—(hear, and laughter)--but it was surely unnecessary to
keep up three regiments on that scale.
Mr. H. J. B_AILLIE had understood that the proposed
land transport service was to consist of 8,000 men. The
number of horses attached to such a corps could net be less
than 12,000. It would be necessary to calculate some such
number, for the food of those animals would have to be
sent from this country. They had the authority of no less
a person than the Earl of Cardigan that the horses com-
posing our cavalry force in the Crimea had been literally
starved to death. It was generally understood that the
cavalry in the Crimea was to be increased by at least 1,200
men, now on their way from India, and by at least a simi-
lar number to be sent from this country. There had never
been any explanation why the horses in the Crimea had
been starved to death. Barley, it was known, could be
procured in any quantity at a distance of only two days'
sail. The head of the commissariat department, however,
still retained his place, and therefore it could not be sup-
posed that the Government had any serious cause of com-
plaint against him. It had been stated that recruits were
now to be engaged between the ages of twenty-two and
twenty-six, and for periods of one, two, or three years.
He had never before heard of engaging troops for one year.
That would scarcely give time for the recruits to be
drilled and brought into a condition to be of service.
He therefore supposed no man would be engaged for less
than three years, and he wished to know whether men en-
gaged for that period were to be allowed the same bounty-
money as those engaged for the ordinary term of years?
He also wished to know whether any steps had been taken
to enlist the foreign corps?
Sir E. PERRY should like to know what was the real
expense of the British army. The army expenses were so
much scattered over different estimates that no man out of
the Government could come even to an approximation of
the aggregate expenditure. The country had lately heard
with delight that no fewer than sixty sergeants of the line
had been endowed witch commissions for gallant conduct in
the field. He wished to know whether, at the time those
commissions were presented, there was given to those ser-
geants any allowance to enable them to take up their posi-
tions as gentlemen? Such allowances were absolutely ne-
cessary, and documents in the library of the house showed
that they were made in France. There had been brought
forward in the house that night a question which deeply
occupied the public attention—the question of aristocratic
influence in the English army. This question must be
dealt, with by some statesman who was able to read the
signs of the times. It was no vulgar demagogue who an-
nounced to the people of England that the cold shade of
aristocracy was withering their army. On the contrary, it
was a man of the highest rank both in the army and among
the proudest aristocratic families of which we could boast.
When he (Sir E. Perry) contrasted the moral condition of
the soldiers in the Crimea with the moral condition of the
soldiers who fought our battles in the revolutionary war,
the last of whom were said to be the outpourings of the
streets of London, he felt that the time was come when
that great question must be dealt with, and the same
plain career afforded in the army as was to be found in
other ranks in this country. It was from no insolent sen-
timent of ill will to the aristocracy that his hon. friend
had brought forward this question. For himself, his own
sympathies and interests were all bound up with the insti-
tutions of the country ; but the statesmen who guided
their counsels must now adapt the institutions of the
country to what they saw around them on every side, and
it was because the noble lord at, the head of the Govern-
ment was capable of effecting such an adaptation that he
(Sir E. Perry) was willing to give a strenuous support to
the noble lord's Government ; but he wished particularly
to express the dissatisfaction with which he had heard the
taunts and ill-deserved sneers which had been levelled at
his honourable friend who pointed out where the blot lay.
This question was so muoh connected with the committee
to be moved for on Thursday next, that he must make a
few observations with reference to it. Ho had come down
to the house the other day with an earnest desire to be
able to retract the vote he had given on a former occasion.
He had expected that the noble lord at the head of the
Government would have put forward such a vigorous pro-
gramme of the conduct of the war that ho should have
been able to reconcile to his conscience and his constitu-
ents the change in his conduct ; but on hearing the plans
which lied been adopted, he only felt, in common, he be-
lieved, with the greater portion of the house, a blank feeling
of shill and dissatisfaction. (Cheers.) The hon. member

for Aylesbury had pointed out the extraordinary fetters
placed upon the executive in the field, and the noble lord
had given nu answer to any one of those objections. If
the Government was not satisfied with their Commander-
in-Chief their course was obvious, the whole country
being with them ; but their new mode of shackling a gene-
ral in the field with commissioners tied round his neck,
and with power almost to displace him, would paralyse
the efforts of any man, however gifted he might be in the
conduct of war. His hon. friend had been taunted with
citing the commissioners dc la surcti; publique as an ex-
ample to be followed ; but, on the contrary, the honour.
able member had pointed to that as the only instance on
record in which such an extraordinary procedure was re-
sorted to ; and, in fact, to make that commission succeed,
the commissioners were armed with an arbitrary guil-
lotine. (Laughter.) As an independent member of the
house, and as a supporter of the Government —(a
laugh)—he had ventured to make these observations.
Ile observed that his calling himself a supporter
of the Government called up some smiles on the
opposite side of the house. He could assure the honour-
able gentlemen who sat opposite that he had no desire at
all to see them sitting in the places of the present Govern-
ment, nor should he ever wish to live under such a rule as
theirs. (Laughter and cheers.) Their Chancellor of the
Exchequer would, under Lord Derby, probably have been
the right honourable gentleman the leader of the Opposi-
tion ; and their War Minister would have been a noble-
man under whose rule he (Sir E. Perry) had lived during
a most eventful period ' • and if any one wanted to see what
sort of a War Minister that noble lord would have made,
let them turn to the last chapter of " Thornton's History
of India." He (Sir E. Perry) believed that the noble lord
at the head of the Government would do anything his ge-
niusssuggested for the conduct of the war • and, as an in-
dependent member, and a supporter of the Government,
he had thus ventured to express an opinion as to what he
should like to see done. He, as well as those who shared
his opinions, looked to the noble lord to mould the policy
of the Government with vigour according to the spirit of
the nation and the exigencies of the crisis.
Mr. PERCY must complain of the deductions made in
the soldier's pay for the expense of his clothing and other
comforts, in time of war, and thought that if this system
went on between the noble lord and the Seeretary for War
the firm would soon be known by the appellation of Moses
and Son. (Laughter.) At Scutari he had been told, by
the medical men connected with the hospital there, that
there prevailed a deplorable want of proper clothing for
sick and wounded, and men were sent thence as convales-
cents who, on arriving at their destination, were found to
be so ill that they were obliged to be sent back again. He
urged on the Government to provide proper clothing in
the different hospitals for convalescents going out to the
Crimea, and also for those returning to England, because
he heard that a convalescent returing to England had
only the clothing which the sailors and marines wore. He
must also allude to the stoppages made from the soldier's
pay for hospital allowances. Ile knew an instance
II which several hundred sick and wounded were landed
from the Acorn at Scutari, who arrived at the hos-
pital in such a state as to be incapable of taking care of
themselves, having lost their kits. The authorities refused
to supply them with knives and forks, because, by the re-
gulations, a soldier was obliged to find those articles, but
fortunately there were other parties who supplied there.
He thought great blame must bo attributable to some of
the subordinate officers, as he was ready to express his
belief that no one could bo more zealous or active in the
cause of the soldier than the late Secretary at War (Mr. S.
Herbert). 110 wished to ask why it was that there were
so many ships at Beycos Boy lying idle and doing nothing ?
Why could they not drop down to Scutari, where they
might anchor in perfect security, and their crews might
bo employed in landing the sick and wounded, and assist-
ing to carry them to the hospital, instead of leaving them
to the tender mercies of the Turks? (Hear, hear.) If the
house had seen, as he himself had, 450 sick landed in one
day, they would acknowledge that there was much cause
for this question. (Hear, hear.) Ho believed that on that
occasion a request was actually made that a ship should
drop down to Scutari, but was refused ; some days elapsed
before these poor wretches were landed, and during that
time they were lying on the deck in their miserable rags.
He would also call the attention of the right hon. gentle.
man to the state of the staff surgeons in the hospitals,
where they duties that ought
were called upon to perform
to be discharged by civilians, such as drawing up the diet
roll. One staff officer wrote to him that his doctor had to
attend to G 0 sick men and nine officers, whereas the French
regulation with respect to medical men was that there
should be one doctor to every 25 wounded, and one to
every 50 men labouring under maladies ordinaires.
Mr. LAYAIID begged to be allowed to call attention to
ono point of great consequence—that of the tents. He bee
lioved a largo number of the tents furnished to the troops
for use during the present campaign wore old tents that
had been used in the Peninsular war, and that it had been
truly remarked of them that one might as well sit under a
sieve. In fact, a great part of the misery endured by our
men was owing to the insufficient protection they had against
_the weather. For this purpose the arrangements adopted
iu the French service were admirable, the troops being
provided with small tents, which the loon could early
about with them. He had received a letter from Colonel
Ellers Napier, who took a groat interest in these matters,
which acquainted him that a tent had been transmitted to
him, divided into six parts or more, of so light a nature
by
aainr waosn tfhooet,ii\i'vleinchtioNvna(s)fcaapapbrilveaotef
as to be carried
hsoolldliienrg—saix:hpeerhs:dousLeen informed by General Bosquet was
also the case with the tent used by the French. If we
entered upon a summer campaign, wo might expect great
suffering again to be experienced by our army ; and he
must again urge the adoption of a better mode of covering
the troops, especially that a better description of hospital
marquees should be chosen. It was- remarkable that,
during the gale of the 14th November, when every one of
our tents was blown down, not a single Turkish teat had
been. Another point he wished to allude to was the en-
listment of the new proposed corps of cavalry. Govern-
ment always appeared to do the right thing at the wrong
time, and in the wrong place. (A laugh.) They wore
now about to send English officers to raise cavalry in
Thessaly, but they might as well send them to Iceland, or
any other quarter. If they wanted an excellent and effi-
cient corps of irregular cavalry, they ought to send t0...A1i&