The Sun.
London, England, 1855-08-08 00:00:00

am satisfied that the great majority of this house, as
proved by the votes they have come to on the subject, are
faithful representatives of the madly spirit of the country,
and that the confidence of this house and the support of
the country will be given to any Government, whoever
they may be, who, in the conduct of the great struggle in
which we are now engaged, may perform the duties which
devolve upon them to the best of their ability, and in ac-
cordance with the determined will of the people. My
noble friend has made some remarks upon the operations
of the war and in reference to the terms of peace, but it
cannot be expected that her Majesty's Government should
enter into any explanations either upon ono head or upon
the other. It would bo most unfitting, and would obvi-
ously tend to defeat the policy of the country, if we were
to throw out a sketch of what we thought might be accom-
plished in the prosecution of the war, and what would be
the terms of peace upon which we thought the contest
might be terminated with safety to the country. (Hear.)
The operations of war must in their nature be dependent
upon circumstances that may arise in the prosecution of
the war, and it is unnecessary to state to any man that to
announce our intentions would be to lay tho ground of de-
feat. The conditions of peace must depend upon the
circumstances under which negotiations may be begun,
and upon the success which either party in the war
may have obtained at the moment when negotiations
are commenced. (Hear, hear.) There is, however,
one point to which my noble friend adverted
which calls for some remark. I refer to the
opinion which he seems to have entertained that the Turk-
ish Government had no objection to accept the Austrian
proposals, but that their opinion was overborne by a con-
trary decision upon the part of the Governments of England
and France. My noble friend must know far better than I
can what was the personal opinion of the Turkish represen-
tative at Vienna upon that matter. I can only say that I
have no reason whatever to believe or suppose that the
Turkish Government differed in opinion from the Govern-
ments of England and France as to the necessity of not
accepting the proposals to which my noble friend refers.
No doubt, if the time should arrive when the Turkish Go-
vernment might imperatively think that certain conditions
were consistent with their future security, their opinion
ought to have considerable weight when the Governments
of England and France might be called upon to discuss the
conditions of peace. At the same time, a remark from
the hon. member for Lambeth ought not to be lost sight of
—namely, that the objects for which the war was under-
taken were too wide and important to depend solely upon
the decision of the Turkish Government. The war was un-
dertaken, not only for the protection of Turkey, but, as the
hon. gentleman well observed, as a means to an end. No
doubt the protection of Turkey, as a question affecting the
balance of power in Europe, was an object for which it was
the duty of the other Powers of Europe to contend; but
beyond the protection of Turkey lies the still greater ques-
tion of the grasping ambition of Russia--an ambition
which no man has more forcibly or more fully explained
than my noble friend, himself, and which aims at the moral
and physical subjugation of the continent of Europe, and
the extinction of those principles of political and commer-
cisl liberty upon which the independent existence of the
kingdoms of Europe must mainly depend, (Hear, hear.)
Therefore, I am not prepared to say hat it ought to rest
with the Government of Turkey to decide what are the
conditions which it would be consistent with the future
security and the permanent peace of Europe to accept, ut
the Governments of England and France have as great,
and perhaps a greater. interest in that question than
the Government of Turkey itself. (Hear, hear.) Their
enlightened views on questions of European policy are
more likely to be right than even the views of the Turkish
Government, but there is no reason to suppose that any
difference of opinion is likely to occur. (Hears'hear.) I
can only say that, up to the present moment, there has
been, and I trust that it may continue, a perfect unani-
mity and concord between the Governments of England,
France, and Turkey. (Hear.) In mentioning the Govern-
ment of France, I must express my entire concurrence in
the remarks of my noble friend as to the perfect sincerity,
the cordial friendship, and the entire unity of opinion
which prevail between the Governments of England and
Franco. (Cheers.) Indeed, upon this great question the
two Governments may be said to form but one Cabinet,
some of the members of which are sitting in London and
some in Paris. There is a perfect unity of opinion and a
perfect unity of purpose, and I cannot but anticipate that
the entire union which exists between the two countries
must in the end accomplish the great object for which
they have united. (Hear, hear.) My noble friend has
called attention to the fact that hitherto we have not been
os successful as we expected in carrying into execution the
power which Parliament gave us before Christmas of en-
listing foreign troops for the reinforcement of the armies
of England and France. My noble friend has adverted to
the cause of our failure in that respect, and, though I have
no desire at present to go back to former debates, I Mu.st
say that it has been mainly owing to the unfavourable
impression which was produced upon the minds of men
on the continent by the difficulties which were thrown in
the way of the Foreign Enlistment Bill in its progress
through the two Houses of Parliament that the Govern-
ment have been prevented from carrying out that measure
successfully. (Hear, hear.) We are now, however,
raising troops under the provisions of that law with
greater rapidity than hitherto, and I trust that before
the autumn sets in we shall be able to send consider-
able reinforcements to our army in the East. (Hear,
hear.) With regard to the great war in which we are
engaged. I have nothing more to say, except that her
Majesty's Government feels that it is their duty to carry
on that war by all the means which Parliament has placed •
at their disposal; and I trust that when Parliament meets
again the manner in which we shall be found to have per-
formed our duties will insure for us that confidence which
Parliament has hitherto so generously reposed in us. I
will now, sir, refer to the other topics to which my, noble
friend has adverted. My noble friend has called the at-
tention of the house to the state of Italy. That is, no
doubt, a very painful topic, but my noble friend has ad-
verted to one bright feature in it—namely, the conduct of
the kingdom of Piedmont, and he most justly dilated upon
the admirable example which has been set by the King of
Piedmont. (Cheers.) Tholcourse pursued by that kingdom
has shown us that there is in Italy a people wise enough
to know the value of constitutional institutions, and how
to work them well when they have obtained them. (Hear,
hear.) The present position of Piedmont is unexampled in
the history of Europe. We have seen many countries
which, after possessing an arbitrary Government, have
suddenly obtained representative institutions, but for
years and years the want of previous practice and expe-
rience has rendered those institutions unavailing for any
practical purposes in the promotion of rational liberty.
That has not been the case in Piedmont. There the people
almost appear as though they had enjoyed for centuries
the excellent institutions which they have only recently
obtained. (Hear.) Instead of sacrificing their time in•
party strife and conflict they have exhibited the vigour
of the earlier periods of constitutional government, and
while the people have shown, upon the one hand, a wis-
dom and steadiness of purpose that will dignify them iu
the history of Europe, upon the other hand thy have
had the good fortune to be ruled by a Sovereign who pro-
perly understands and appreciates the real power and
dignity of his position. (Cheers.) He has respected the,
institutions which the country has obtained, and in the'
exalted position in which he is placed he has set an ex-
ample to his people which it is impossible to praise too
highly. It is only natural that such a people and such a
monarch should view with painful anxiety the condition of
other parts of Italy, a condition as deplorable as my noble
friend has described. (Hear) In ninny parts of Italy,
and especially in the Roman States, events have occurred
which afford a painful contrast to what has been passing
in the kingdom of Sardinia. (Hear, hear.) Foreign in-
fluence in all countries is fatal to the well-being
.of the
people, but foreign influence maintained by arms is still
worse than foreign influence maintained simply by politi-
cal ascendancy. (Hear.) Unfortunately, in Italy both
have had their. effect. (Hear.) In the kingdom of Naples
we see the ascendancy of a foreign political influence (for
it is in vain to disguise the fact that the influence of Rus-
sia is preiceninantin that kingdom), and we see also an
example of the manner in which the political influence of
Russia reigns supreme in a country separated from the
Russian empire by large tracts of land. (Hear.) Upon
more occasions than one the Government of Naples have
shown their hostility to England and France by prohibit-
ing the exportation of articles which their neutrality did
not warrant them in prohibiting, and lan sorry, to add
that there have been acts of cruelty and oppression re-
cently committed by that Government which really do not
belong to the age in which we live. (Hear.) On the other
hand, the protection which in the Roman States is afforded
by the French and Austrian occupation to the Government
naturally, perhaps, increases the ability of that Govern-
ment to commit acts which are not in accordance with the
feelings of the people of this country ; but the house will,
I am sure, perceive that these are topics of great difficulty
and delicacy. (Hear.) There cannot at the present mo-
ment be anything less desirable for the interests of this
country than that discussions should take place in this
house, or that any proceeding+ should be adopted by her
Majesty's Government. which would tend to cast even a
shade of coldness over the relations existing between this
country and France on the one hand. or Austria on the
other. Without entenng into the motives which led to the
occupation of Rome, or to the effects of that occupation— one
of Which, however, has been to insure tranquillity—l may
observe that the discipline of the French troops during
their occupation of Italy has not been impugned, hut, on
the contrary, their conduct has been most exemplary.
With regard to the French occupation, the house is proba-
bly aware that the number of the occupying troops, instead
of having been increased, has been materially reduced.
The Austrian occupation of Tuscany has altogether ceased.
garrison,.iveru ebnattmotfha t
Tuscany gar
Until very recently Florence was occupied by an Austrian
has
isonbbansenbelenft
twoirthesdtrauwponn, :iitusdon
the
resources. I know a report has beene prevalent that the'
Austrian forces in Italy have recently been considerably
augmented, but lodno the not believe there is any foundation
for that report.
her Majesty's Governmentcontrary, from information which
pears that although a few tho
have received very lately, it ap-
usands of Austrian troops—
the number being varioapi
replaced an equal number of Itaglitories,
6,ooo—have entered the Itarianstti they have only
at 4,0,J0, 5,000, and
troops to whom, in
certainl period has
actual number
the usual course, leave of absence for'
been given. I believe, therefore, thanta
augmeeillit.etioiof
of Austrian troops in Italy has not been increased. lam
unable to say whether there has been any
the number of troops in Ancona or not, but I b
the aggregate number of men under arms iu the territorythat
is not larger than it has been for some time past, and aa
persuaded any notion which may prevail that Austria is
changing her policy with regard to the allies, and is pre-
paring for a course of action in Italy incompatible with
her relations with England and France, is utterly un-
founded. Whether Austria, at a future time, prompted
by regard for her own interests, may or may not find her-
self in a condition to take the field in conjunction with
England and France, of one thing I am perfectly satisfied
—that we shall not see Austria take the field against Eng-
land and France, and in concert with Russia. My noble
friend has said he thinks her Majesty's Government ought
to take advantage of any circumstances which may from
time to time arise with the view of endeavouring—either
through the Governments of France and Austria, •or
without them, according to the state of things—to ame-
liorate the condition of that fine country which he has.
co well and so justly described. It must be painful to every
man to see a great people—for I must call the Italians a
great people—(hear)—endowed by nature with the highest
qualities—(cheers)—capable of becoming, as they were in
formes times, models in everything that elevates and digni-
fies human nature, debarred by the accidental circumstances
of their political condition from pursuing a career which
would ennoble them as a great nation in the estimation of
the world. It must, therefore, be the object of every Bri-
tish at
. atesman—as it was, upon a
eforaerrfeorccaseionn,ithe otb-
Jed of lily right hon. friend the
career, and one more
of Oxford— th versi y
not only to alleviate themember
pressure which now
weighs upon the Italians,
.butto open to them a noble
which they have congenial with the high qualities with
beeso endowed by nature. My noble
friend must be aware
which has
exiatezodrifficult it is to alter a state of
thingshim and the house that her many years ; but I can assure
which Government are ani-
mated by the same feelings he has expressed, and '
that they will avail themselves of any fair and proper op-

The house resumed at six o'clock.
Lord PALMERSTON stated, in answer to Mr. Vin-
cent Scully, that there was no intention to add a batta-
lion each to the three regiments of Guards.
Mr. STAFFORD moved for copies of reports from
the different hospitals connected with the army and navy
in the Black Sea, and for copies of any reports sent home
by Sir John 'MiNeill, the sanitary commissioner to the
army. He justified the disclosures which had been made
of the unnecessary sufferings of the army, without which,
he said, their sufferings would have ,been still worse. He
quoted extracts from evidence of several staff and regi-
mental surgeons to show the frightful evils which existed
in the army about Christmas last. He quoted, also, the
suggestions they made for an improvement of the sys-
tem, and asked the Government whether they had
adopted those suggestions.
Mr. PEEL, in reply to the statements of the hon-
ourable gentleman,'-ntered into some details with re-
gard to the state of the hospitals in the Crimea, and first
he stated that an impartial commission had been ap-
pointed to inquire into the condition of the hospitals on
the 18th of June. At present there were few sick or
wounded either in the military or civil hospitals, and
the reason was that there was little sickness in the army.
They had, however, made great provision for emergen-
cies, and he hoped they would always continue to be
beforehand with these contingencies. He hoped and be-
lieved Sebastopol would fall this summer ; but the Go-
verninent did not trust too much to that, but had made
provision for the army to winter again in the Crimea.
With respect to the military medical department, he
stated that it was intended to appoint a head over every
separate department, such as the purveyor's branch, the
apothecary's, &c., and that over all a military medical
chief should be placed. With regard to the motion, he
had no objection to give the ordinary medical reports
asked for.

The motion, amended in some of its points, was then
acceded to.

THE INDIAN BUDGET.

Mr. V. SMITH moved that tho papers and accounts
which had been presented to the house during the present
session in relation to India, be referred t 3 a committee of
the whole house. .

The motion having been agreed to, the house went into
committee.

Mr. V. SMITH proceeded to say that the lateness of the
period at which he rose to make the usual statement was not
owing to any up willingness on his own part to makeit earlier,
or teeny want of industry in the department over which he
presided, but to the pressure of other business, and to the
unwillingness of the Opposition to postpone their criticisms
on the conduct of the Government in relation to other
matters. A pledge was given by his predecessor that the
accounts should be presented much earlier, but owing to
the causes to which he referred he feared that it would
neither be in his (Mr. V. Smith's) power norin that of any
one who might succeed him to redeem that pledge. A.
great deal of misapprehension had arisen from the applica-
tion of a misnomer to the statement he was about to make.
It had been called a budget ; but, unlike the statement to
which that term was usually applied, it hail reference only
to the finances of past years, and that must continue to be
the case unless the House of Commons were prepared to
rescind the whole constitution of India. and to assume the
direction of affairs which was now left in the hands of the
Court of Directors and the Board of control. At the same
time ho was far from denying that it was desirable that the
accounts shoed be produced nt an earlier period of the
session. He observed that the hon. member for Manchester
had placed on the books a notice that he intended to move
that the accounts should in future be made up to the end of
October, instead of the end of April. He believed that could
not be done without a complete derangementof the accounts
of India as they were at present settled. (Hear, from Mr.
Bright.) Such an alteration would tend to confuse the ac-
counts, which were kept on a system of double entry. His
predecessor had told the house that he was endeavouring to
accelerate the transmission of the accounts from India. This
had, in fact, been done, and the accounts now extended
only two years back: On this subject he might refer to a
despatch which had been sent to India with the concur-
rence of the Court of Directors, calling for the transmis-
sion of the accounts at an earlier period. The effect of this
despatch was that the Government' might be enabled next
April to present accounts extending up to April, 1855. On
the other hand, if the hon. gentleman's proposal were car-
ried out, the effect would be to remove them el; months
backward instead of forward ; for he did not' believe it: to
be possible that accounts made up to. October, 1855, could
ho sent home in time for presentation in April, 1856.
Now, following the example of his predecessor, he should
proceed to present to the house a statement of Indian
finances for the years 1852-3. The right hon. gentleman
then proceeded to read the following accounts :

INDIAN FINANCE-4852-53.
£ £ £

£ £

I. Bengal—
Net revenue 8,158,809
Local charge 2,037,561
Local surplus ---6,121,248
North-Western
Provinces—
Revenue 5,636,169
Local charges 1,362,030
Local surplus —4,274,339
Mility. charges '
of Bengal and
North- Westn.
Provinces 5,607,866
Net revenue of
ditto — 13,795,178
Charges of ditto 9,607,457
Surplus avail-
able for general
purposes of In. ..... . .......
11. Illadras—..
Net revenue
Charges.
Surplus avail-
able for general
purpos3s of In-
dia
111. Bombay—.
Net. revenue
Charges.
Deficit
Total revenues
of the several
Presidencies
Total charges of
ditto
Total surplus or
ditto
Interest on In-
dian debt
Charges defray-
ed in England
Total charges on
Indian rev&

-1,787,721
3,727,536
3,263,578

--- 458,958
2,828,565
2,941,528

112,963

- 2),251,279
- 10,273,563
- ---5,133,716
- 2,011,971
2,697,438

nues --•
Surplus of in-
come over ex-
penditurom,„ r!

42407