The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-28 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY _EV:P.I44N Cit, MA ft CH 28. 18556

If the war were successful, it would tend to riveb the fet-
ters on one of the most oppressed nationalities in the
world. (Hear, hear.)
Viscount PALMERSTON—I cannot concur in the ob-
servations which have been made by the noble lord whe has
just sat down, and who has compared the progress of the Bri-
tish arms in different parts of the world with that transac-
tion which has obtained the reprobation of all Europe—
the different partitions of the independent kingdom of
Poland. The conquests which we have made have been
made against a great and powerful enemy—theyhavo been
in wars that have been undertaken for our own defence,
and in vindication of the liberty and independence of na-
tions. (Hear.) Some of the conquests we made from the
enemy we kept ; some of them we gave up ; but to talk of
the nationality of 'conquered colonies taken either from
France or Holland, or from any other power with which
we were engaged in war, is really a total misapplication of
the word. (Hear.) Again, in regard to India, so far from
our conquests there being attended with the oppression of
nationalities, I believe that any man who knows anything
of the interior of India, and the comparative modes of ad-
ministration of our Government and those of the native
princes whose territories have been acquired in the pro-
gress of war, must admit that, so far as the inhabitants of
these countries are concerned, it has been a blessing to
them to be relieved from the tyranny of some of those
native chiefs under whose oppression they had previously
groaned. (Hear.) With regard to the motion itself of
my hon. and learned friend, I perfectly agree with the.ob-
servation with which ho commenced his speech—namely,
there is no reason—there is no policy—there is no good
sense—in any man who will endeavour or wish to shut out
this house from the fullest discussion of diplomatic
and international questions. (Hear.) lam perfectly
ready to agree with him that those discussions, when con-
ducted with temper and moderation, and illustrated by
that range of knowledge which has distinguishM the
speech of my hon. and learned friend, must tend to good
instead of being accompanied by public mischief. (Hear.)
But with regard to this motion, it is not my inten-
tieu to go at length into those topics which my hon.
and learned friend had discussed. I hope that no man will
suppose that her Majesty's Government differ in opinion
with him as to the violation. of public right, and the vio-
lation of moral law, which was comrnitted.when those dif-
ferent partitions of Poland took place in past times. (Hear.)
I do not differ with him also in opinion as to the policy of
the course the Government of Austria at that time pur-
sue 1. (Hear.) It is perfectly demonstrable that neither
with regard to Austria or Prussia was any adequate com-
pensation of interests acquired to counterbalance the blow
that was inflicted upon the moral principle by that spolia-
tion in which they allowed themselves to be made parties.
(Hear.) Bu§ with regard to the practical motion now be.-
fore us, the house must see what the tendency and natural
consequence of agreeing to such a motion must be. (Hear,
hear.) I bold, in the first place, it is not advisable for
this house to dictate to the Executive Government what
course it is to pursue in regard to negotiations pending
upon matters of deep national interest. (Hear, hear.) It
is impossible for the House of Commons to be in possession
of all those various considerations noon the bearings of
which must depend the expediency of this or that demand
—of this or that. condition in the negotiations for peace.
(Hear, beer.) This balance of considerations must depend
upon information which the Executive Government can
alone peaces; and it is for the Executive' Government,
when it has advised the Crown to conclude an arrange-
ment or break off an arrangement, to show to the house
that there were sufficient grounds either ono way or the
other —either fur the conclusion of peace or the refusal
of the conditions which the Government has thought it
necessary to reject. (Hear.) But the motion of my hon.
friend I take to be chiefly made for the purpose of enabling
him to express in the detailed form he has expressed them,
his sentiments upon the general question of the partition
or possible restoration of Poland. (Hear.) But the motion
itself is one which—even if it were in principle desirable
and proper that this house should dictate to Government
the specific condition upon which they should negotiate for
peace—the house should be very slow, and careful, and can-
teen to admit ; for what are the words which my hon.
and learned friend proposes to pot into the mouth of the
house. They are these —" That the restoration of Poland
within its ancient halite is necessary, and is absolutely essen-
tial to the balance of power in Europe." If the house were
to adopt that opinion, and to carry that opinion by an 'ad-
dress to the foot of the throne, that resolution ought not to
atop where it does. My hon. and learned friend ought to
propose that it should go on to say that the house should
enable her Majesty to carry on the war until she had ac-
complished this object, which the house thus declared to
be absolutely necessary and essential for the welfare and
interest of Europe. (Hear, hear.) Therefore I think that,
on general grounds of ixpediency and of propriety as well
as with regard to the particular words of the motion, it is
impossible for the house to consent to concur in the pro-
posal of my hon. and learned friend. (Hear, hear.) It
is well known that the Government of this country has,
in conjunction with the Government of France, and in
connection with the Government of Austria, agreed to
enter into negotiations with the Government of Russia,
on the arrangement which is generally known under the
denomination of the four points; but the restoration of
Poland does not enter among those four points. (Hear.)
I thick the house wouldnot deem it expedient(considering
the great difficulties which there may be found to exist in
arriving at a satisfactory conclusion of the war even upon
the conditions comprised in those four points) to add to
those difficulties by declaring it to be absolutely necessary
to restore—what ? Not merely to detach the kingdom of
Poland, or the former Duchy of Warsaw, from that con-
nection with Russia that was established by the treaty of
Vienna, but my hon. and learned friend goes on to say—
to re-establish Poland in its ancient limits, and to wrest
from Russia provinces which for a great length of years
have been incorporated in, and formed an integral part
of, the body and frame of the Russian Empire. (Hear.)
I doubt very much whether the house would agree to im-
pose such a condition upon Government as being essentially
and absolutely necessary. (Hear.) The war was undertaken
for the protection of. Turkey against the aggression and in-
vasion of Russia. That was the immediate danger, and the
Government thought that the object was of sufficient im-
portance to justify them in calling upon the country to
furnish them with the means of endeavouring to assert in
that respect the principles of international law. (Hear.)
Government thought- there was an interest of Great Bri-
tain sufficiently important involved in that question which
justified a recourse to arms. (Hear.) The question of Po-
land (the importance and interest of which to Germany,
and throtigh Germany to Europe, and through European
interests to this country, I do not wish to underrate) is a
question not of yesterday or the day before—not of this
year or that Tear—but is dated, as my hon. and learned
friend's historical narrative shows, from a former, earlier,
and more remote period. (Hear, hear.) That is not the
danger that has suddenly or recently grown upon the
world, and enters not into the motives that justified and
required the present appeal to arms, and therefore I think
the house will net be disposed to require imperatively of
her Majesty's Government that they should mix up that
question with the negotiations now pending. (Hear, hear.)
Whatever may be the feelings and opinions which English-
men must necessarily entertain on the general question of
Poland, I should be verycnnwilliog in anything I might
say on this general question to enter into a discussion that
might have the least effect upon the negotiations which
are now pending. I trust tho house will forgive me,
therefore, if I do not follow nay hon. and learned friend
through that question, which he has so ably and fully
discussed. (Hoar, hear.) I confine myself, therefore,
simply to saying that it is impossible, in my °melon, for
the house to agree to the resolution he has proposed, be-
cause it would lead to objectionable consequences in re-
gard to the continuance of hostilities, by the introduction
of an object which it might be out of (the power of any
means England could supply to obtain. (Hear, hear.)
Therefore, to agree to the address would bo highly
inexpedient, and at variance with the interests of the
country. (Hear, hear.) Ido net, therefore, fool myself
at liberty to agree to the motion of my honourable and
learned friend, and. I trust that my honourable and
learned friend, having satisfied the feelings of his mind—
(laughter)—by the speech which we have listened to with
great pleasure—admiring, as we do, the ability with which
he has placed upon record the sentiments that animate him
on this subject will not put the house to the necessity of
a division, the effect of which might be misconstrued.
(Hear.),lf the house should negative the proposal upou the
grounds I have stated as an objection to it, that negative
might he miseonstrued as implying a difference of opinion
with him on the abstract question of justice—a difference
which I am persuaded would not bs found to exist in the
mill': 3of members of this house. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. PHINN, after the appeal made to him by the noble
lord, would withdraw the motion, but must protest against
the suggestion of the noble lord that he had brought for-
ward the questton from the wish to make a speech.
The motion was withdrawn.
PROMOTION IN THE ARMY.

Major REED rose, pursuant to notice, to move for a select
committee to inquire into the present mode of conferring ap-
pointments in the army (by purchase or otherwise), to report
on the name, and recommend a more efficient system of se-
curing promotion to merit and long service. He believed
that the present system of promotion was pernicious to the
service and unjust to the private soldier, as well as to-the
poor and efficient officer who was not in a position to pay the
immense sum that was demanded to secure his promotion
from step to step. (Hear.) Ho held in his hand a copy of the
rules by which the British army was governed, and bogged to
call attention to the 20th rule, which had reference to the
Purchase of commissions. In that rule regulations were laid
down for the sale and purchase of commissions, and it was
declared that any cer who violated those rules should be
cashiered, and that any agent who assisted iu the -violation of
them should be deemed guilty of a misdemeanour. Wash not
an acknovrlaendrhdonfart,rozever that the Queen's regulations
were daily
but
through, with, be was not pre-
pared to say the sanertion,He t the knowledge of the Horse
Guards. (Hen. hear.)
the service thrown ranks in ()was desirous to see the highest
waspnenotto merit and long service ;
viso,, preparedfroi to say that pro-
but at the same time hetak,
motions should solely
with communicationsmont the ranks. He had
or two cases to she Sthibeileieltj but he
been inundated
should only refer to one
the system of promotion in it3ClifOap_laer4OfatioCen; N7llll:hwjuublsedtaiureee.lfeolf.
who might bepa.
in the first instance to the cLasi
the service
pointed colonel of the 13th el.adnonl
most gallant fellow, but Whon
for nineteen years. The 13th Liethtylnbteaenntri; had
served
through all the Affghanistan war, and here heitr,e
though
n,a.
of
fveld9
years' standing appointed to command, m .
the sensore
ware
ervice, ea .
two majors in it of 24 and 20 years
tain was an officer of 26 years' service, and the seTchorsena‘ini:l
third captains were officers of 24
major had served in the campaign
Jellalabad, had
22 actions, was engaged in the defence of
yoefaArs;gsheravnistan, he was in
three medals, and was once severely wounded. The second
major was in the same campaign, was in Ghuznee, andin six
actions, ff
and had one medal. The senior captain was in A-
ghauist an and in Ghuznse in 19 actions, and had three medals,
and was twice severely wounded. The next captain was in
Affghanistan, Ghuznee, Jellalabad, in 15 actions, and had
three medals. The third captain was on the staff of General
Sale, was at Jellalabad, had three medals, was twice wounded,
bad two horses shot under him, and was in 22 actions.
(Hear, hear.) In the 95th Regiment there was an officer of
the name of George Brown, who entered the army at the ago
of 14 as a private soldier in the year 1827. He was gazetted
on the 16th May, 1851, as an ensign, and left England as
lieutenant and adjutant, and proceeded with his regiment to
Scutari and Varna. Hawing become ill, he obtained two
months' sick leave, but having recovered before the expira-
tion of a month, he got leave to join his regiment,
and accompanied it to the Crimea. He was present at
Alma, at Balaklava, and at Inkerman ; he commanded fifty-
two men, of whom twenty-four were killed or wounded. The
promotion of Captain Denie created a vacancy, and Lord
Raglan recommended Lieutenant Brown, but the Horse
Guards filled up the vacancy from the half-pay list. The
newly appointed captain retired in a short time afterwards,
and was succeeded by another officer, who, though he was the
junior in point of service of Lieutenant Brown, obtained the
step over him by purchase. (Hear, hear.) He had ;mother
communication from the country, calling his attention to a

ease in the 63d Regiment. A captaincy became vacant, the sytem of purchase was not without numerous and he
which in justice ought to have been given to the senior lieu- would bay beneficial exceptions. Ho trusted the house
tenant, Christopher Maguey, who had been promoted to his wonlc not disturb the arrangement recommended by the
lieutenantcy in March, 1852, and subsequently went out with comsission of last year. He had long been an advocate for
his regiment to the Crimea, and endured all the fatigues and exarraation, both for admission into the army in the first
hardships of the siege of Sebastopol. But instead of this instate, and for promotion ono or two grades afterwards ;
officer receiving the boon he had so well deserved, an officer but is was constrained to add that the system of examine-
had been promoted over his head from the half-par, in Jan., Cm, as hitherto conducted, had been a perfect humbug.
1855. Another gentleman who had retired from the service 113 Inew one person who had been refused a commission be-
in disgust, wrote to him that he had euterel the 54th Regi- exist he was not a proficient in French. It was very easy to
meat as ensign in 1829, and it was not until 1841, after twelve rezognise and reward merit in a time of war ; but it would
and a half years'service,duringwhichhehadseenmanypromot- be extremely difficult to do so in a time of peace. At all
ed over his head, that ha became senior lieutenant bypurchase. prods it would be easy to ascertain the literary merits of
After seventeen years ho obtained a captaincy without pur- as dicer; but a man might be a good scholar and yet be
chase, and finally retired on the brevet of 1854, in which he tolaly deficient in all those qualities which were essential in
was not included. He contended that the system of purchase enable and efficient officer. But be that as it might, he did
Ras injurious to the service, and unfair to the soldier, but no think there was any incompatibility between the systems
what he most complained of was the system of paying large of rirchase arid of merit, and he was strongly impressed with
sums over the regulation prices. Unless the individual who tleconvietion that a judicious combination of the two would
wished to purchase was ready to do this, he must be befound advantageous both to the service and the country
content to see his comrades turn the cold shoulder to him, goerally.
as stopping promotion in the regiment. The historian Alison, jelonel NORTH said the hon. •and gallant member Who
in speaking of the comparative state of the French and English leered the resolution had been rather nufair towards Lord
as mies in the Peninsular war, expressed an opinion that the Iluclinge in connection with the case of Lieut. Brown, of the
system of promotion by merit, and the consequent certainty 9ai, recommended for promotion by Lord Raglan. The truth
of advance in life to the individuals obtaining it, at once kept me that the recommendation had arrived at the Horse
alive the military spirit and insured the inestimable advan- thirds too late, but Lord Herclinee had intimated to the
tage of tried valour and skill among all the officers in the Commander-in-Chief in the Crimea that Lieut. Brown would
field, on whom the efficiency of an army must at all times de- lepromoted at the earliest convenient opportunity. He was
pond. This was the system on which the French army was or- gird to say that the relations existing between the officers of
ganised in the revolutionary war, whereas in the English army the army and the private soldiers were of the most gratifying
the officers were separated from the soldiersby an almost dun_ &tweeter, and he, should be exceedingly sorry to see them
passable line. It was pretendeclthat under the system of per- die:abed in any way -whatever. With respect to the system
chase it was a great boon to the sergeant who was promoted of promotion by purchase, he could not agree in the re-
to be a commissioned officer, to obtain the price of the corn- necks which had been made by the hon, and gallant member
mission on selling out ; but the truth was that the Horse fat Westminster, and ho did not think that if the system of
Guards were not so ready to allow persons to realise. He remotion by merit were established tomorrow the beet offi-
knew a case of an officer who had served 20 years in India em would, in even the majority of cas:s, be elevated to the
who came bank to England in an indifferent state of health, eieher ranks in the army.
and whose request to be allowed to sell out was denied by Mr. W. WILLIAMS said it was a curious and significant
the Horse Guards, because, they said, they knew his health fat that all the members of the staff in the Crimea had been
was in such a delicate state that he must soon die, and his rezommen led for promotion, whereas the men who had
commission would fall in. This might seem almost incredible, `tight the battles had been entirely overlooked. That
but he was in possession of the name and allthe circumstances. via the system of which lie complained. What they
He must condemn with equal earnestness the system of 'wanted was, that which-should be found most qualified to
favouritism which pervaded all the appointments of the :)romote the efficiency of the army. If it should be found
army. First, as to the staff officers, who ought to have ;hat the system of promotion by purchase was the most
a perfect knowledge of their profession, because they were fitted for the promotion of that object, then let that system
entrusted with the orders of the general in corn- continue in operation. ' What the country complained of
mand, their appointment at present really depended on the was, that it was only the men of rank, of connection, and of
length of their purse or the closeness of the affinity they interest, who had the good fortune to obtain advancement
could trace to the commander-in-chief or the general officer to in the army. The gallantry of those men was undisputed ;
whom they were attached. With respect to the meeieal de- their gallantry was equal to other men's, and other men's was
partment late occurrences had shown the great deficiency of eaaal to theirs—(hear)—but, unless the existing system were
medical skill in the Crimea. Many of the medical men had changed, dissatisfaction would go on ripening in the country,
bsteueilowntsorktoedtatkoe irdetahteh,
placed Anotherdenowtherw sendingoieprent,on i which h
outrawe, till the antler would become unpopular—a result which no one
iesired to see.
need not dwell, was the miserably inefficient state of the corn- Col. LINDSAY wished to correct a misstatement that had
nnesariat. lie wished for a commiVee to decide wLether the teen made. In the Guards 4,800 f. was paid for a lieutenant-
"ve,ernwas • .
s. a-e injurious or not. His belief was that unless the colonelcy ; the price in the line was 4,0031.
system of military administration was properly investigate d Colonel KNOX rose to make some remarks on the subject
and thoroughly reformed, there would arise an expression of cf the promotion given to staff officers after the battle of
the voice of public opinion to which it would be necessary for f Inkerman, and he should for once be obliged to ogres with'
Government to, give attention. . the hnnougablc member for Lambeth. (Hear, hear.) The re-

. . .
Captain SCOBELL seconded the motion. They had seen in turn of tpOS3 promotions neeeed little or no comme,ut from a
the present campaign a flue and gallant army melting away military man like himself--(Hear, hear)—it was a most sur-
miler the disasters which had overtaken it. He did not want prising return, for it was known that many of the officers
to pronounce whether the cause of those disasters was the promoted were not in action or under fire on that occasion at
improper distribution of patronage or not ; but one fact was all. (Hear.) The offiners promoted for being senior amounted
undeniable, that there were many colonels and majors in the to 25 ; those promoted for being staff officers were 54. (Hear )
army who were far the juniors of others serving under them; He made these remarks from no bad feeling towards any
and it was not likely that inexperienced men were compe I officer in the Crimea. Than there were four junior major-
tent to be the leaders of those who had seen much service, generals to whom regiments were given, a step which, with
TJnder the present system commissions were, in fact, put up all duo deference to the authorities who recommended it, h
to auction e.
considered to be a great injustice to old and meritorious °fe-
If it were true'the conimMidar-in-chief being the auctioneer.
that every colonel who went into action had cers who had served in the Peninsular war. (Cheers.) If it
were desired to remunerate the four officers in. question
1e,,,00.1. 'round his neck, could this be a right system, or
for distinguished services, they should have been rewarded by
could they think. themselves justified in exposing a man
the payment of a sum of money in the meantime, which
who had laid out such a sum in fighting his way up
sum should have lapsed when their turn for promotion came:
to his rank to the risks incurred in action I It was true
A regiment and pay as a general officer was equal to 1,0001.
the commissariat officers did not purchase their way silo, bat
they got on by influence, often to the exclusion of better a year ; amajor-genoral's pay was but 4001. With regard
t
men. In the artillery and engineers it was true a different to tne'motion before the house, he did not think the honour-
able member was likely to gain much by it. If anything was
system was followed, because there scientific skill was indis-
pensable. He contended that the Government were nothing to be done-ho thought it should be done by a commission to
but the trustees of the public in dispensing their patronage, consider the whole matter, under the authority of the Crown,
but, in any case, he did not think the present was the proper
and any man who neglected the duty of promoting merit be-
trayed his trust, and was-answerable. to the country for his moment for any motiot of the kind.
conduct. He hoped the attention of Government would be Mr. LANG said that at this time last year the country was
directed to the establishment of an order of merit, because at i under the pleasing delusion that they had an army which, if
present no officer could be appointed who was under the rank not large, was at least well fitted for its purposes ; but the
of major. , . events in the Crimea had shown that though its gallantry was
Colonel HARCOURT wished particularly to address him- the same as ever, still, taken as a whole, it w.s very far dell-
s:4f to that part oZ the motion which related to theapromo- cient in those qualities they had a right to expect. That was
tlon of non-commissioned officers to the rank of officer. On the the reason why ho thought the present moment peculiarly
well fitted for an inquiry.of the kind. The question of °M-
other points embraced in these resolutions he would only say
that it was only from the system of purchase that the officers cering the,army by purchase was, under Our present circum-
of the army could derive the slightest hopes of promotion. stances, not merely a money question ; but if the matter were
(Hear, hear.) With regard to the point to which he wished allowed to stand overa few yearsthe pecuniary element would
snore especially to refer, he very much regretted that upon come again into play, and oppose serious obstacles to any
the occasions when this subject had been brought before the ' alteration. For nearly half a century back public opinion, in
house those who had addressed them had shown themselves deference to the Duke of Wellington, was never for one mo-
exceedingly ignorant of the practical bearings of the present ment brought to bear ujoon the constitution and organisation
system. It seemed extraordinary that when the present of the army. The cnnsequence was that they now found the
system had raised this country to a pitch of glory such as no army constituted in a manner which might certainly be said
other country had ever reached this should be the moment to be repugnant to those principles of common sense on which
chosen for attacks upon it. Could that system which had it ought to be constituted. The present time ,was. a • very
been illustrated by the victories of the Peninsula, of Water- fitting one for a thorough and comprehensive inquiry not into
100, of India, and of Alma and of Inkerman be sobad as had this or that branch of the subject, but into thewhole question
been represented by gentlemen on the other side of the of the officering, of the British army. On the occasion of a
house ? (Hear, hear.) He contended that the social position recent debate a remarkable opinion was emitted by the noble
of the non-commissioned officers of the army was such that lord now at the head of her Majesty's Government in favour
promotion to the rank of an officer would be most inconve- of au educational test to' be applied to officers. Atsimilar
nicnt, and even injurious to them. The soldiers of the line opinion was professed by the honourable member for Wilt-
were mostly taken from the agricultural population. Now, shire, the late Secretary-at-'War, and also by the hon. and
supposing that these men had received the averaze education gallant member for Westminster (Gen. Sir De Lacy Evans),
communicated in a good national school—which was too whose opinion was one of the highest authority, he having
favourable a supposition—they would not be able to do more commanded not brigades merely, but independent armies in
than read and write, do the ordinary rules of arithmetic, and two or three consecutive campaigns. Lot them look at the
possess the most elementary knowledge of geography. Now system in force in the Austrian army, one officered almost
suppose that, after serving as private and corporal, he exclusively by gentlemen. Let them turn their eyes, also, to
had been selected from his proved intelligence and good
conduct for the position or sergeant-major, at which he
d only arrive, durlug time of peace, under the age of the Sardinian army. The late campaign against Austria hav-
ing-shown the Sardinians that their army was a deficient in-
coul strument for the Practical purposes of war, they set to work
t!iii ty to thirty-five. Well, that was the earliest age at which
to see how they could make it more efficient. They sent a
he could put in claim for a commission. With whom, then, commission to examine the constitution of all the armies of
would he be placed in collocation I He would be placed in Europe—that of England among the rest—and the result
juxtaposition with ensigns of seventeen and eighteen years of was, not 'the establishment of a system of purchase, but the
age. Did they think that it would conduce to the happiness establishment of a system in which they retained the officer-
of the promoted sergeant-major, placed immediately in con- rug of the army in the bands of the gentry, at the same time
tact with a man so much his junior but yet knowing so much introducing a system of promotion from the ranks, with an
more than he did ? (Hear.) Then there was another point. educational test of great stringency as a criterion of fitness for
It did not always follow that, because a man was a man of in- such proniotion. One result of our present system was that
telligence and good conduct, and one whom it might no man could enter the army, and adopt it as a professsion,
be desirable to promote, that his wife was the better half, unless he had at least some 6,0001. at his disposal, which he
(Hear, hear.) The wives of the non-commissioned officers could afford to invest in a speculation procuring him no corn-
mere.ial return, and in which he ran a great risk of losing all
were frequently persons of very inferior education. They
very often could not read or write ; and he did not think his capital, for in the event of death there was no return of
that under these circumstances it would benefit them to raise any part of the sum originally sunk. The army was thus
them to the rank of gentlewomen. (Hear, hear.) There limited to the wealthy classes. He knew, of his own know=
ledge, the case of two young men at Sandhurst, the first of
was in his own regiment a most valuable officer who had been
whom, A, passed a first-class examination, and the' second,
promoted from the ranks, and who had held the office of
quartermaster for the last forty years. That gallant officer B, a good examination. They were both appointed at
told him that he thought the promotions of sergeants to the the same time, and the second got a better appointment
rank of commissioned officers, which had taken place in the than the first, though he had not passed the best exami-
Crimea, would not be advantageous to these men on account nation. When they were appointed lieutenants the rank
of their want of education. Te same offices' pointed out to they got was equal. When they came to be appointed
him that it was often a most serious. inconvenience to a non- captains, A, who was at the top of the list, had net enough
commissioned officer to be promoted, because the pay of au money by him. B had the money, and so passed over his
ensign was not, if he was married, sufficient to enable him to head. A had since become a broken-hearted man, lost to
support his wife and family in comfort in the rank to which himself, and lost to his country. (Cheers.) Another effect
he was raised. This quartermaster told him that he knew a of the present system was that it rendered the officers mere
case in which a man who was promoted to an ensigncy in the amateur officers. They took up the army as an agreeable
71st Regiment, died of a broken heart from the difficulties amusement, not as a profession, and did not make their regi-
and embarrassments into which ho fell from this cause. rents their homes. But if the business of the army consisted
(Hear, hear.) This was, in fact, the reason why the commis- in the management of practical details about feeding, cloth-
sions which had been given to the non-commissioned officers rag, and hutting the men, those officers, though admirable in
in the army had not always been given to the senior ser- respect of gallantry, were deficient in respect of other quali-
vents. The ensigncy awarded to the Grenadier Guards had ties not less necessary, The experience of what had recently
been given to one of the junior sergeants, and he was told occurred proved that the army was deficiently officered in those
that it was because he, being an unmarried man, could afford respects. (No, no, and cheers.) At all events, the matter
to take it, while nose of the senior sergeants, who were mar- was a fair subject for inquiry. But there was a. still more hu-
rled men, cared to have it. (Hear, hear.) ' It might be a portent point on which he had not yet touched, In all other
very popular cry to say that these men should be pro- professions and employments the one test of efficiency and
meted, but he did not think that so long as our army was success was promotion by merit. That was the mainspring
recruited from persons of that rank in life which now fur- of all efficiency and excellence. If a merchant were to confide
s.ished the privates and non-commissioned officers, and as his business to clerks appointed not according to merit, but
long as the latter had only their present amount
of educe- by a system of purchase, he should like to know how long it_
thou, that such a step would be really advantageous to the world be ere that merchant appeared in the Gazette. If rail-
man themselves. There were, however, many things they way trains were confided to the care of servants appointed in
might do which would bo really serviceable to them
and the same way, he wondered how many directors would have
these measures he thought every consideration of justice to actions for :manslaughter brought against them. In law, in
the service called upon. them to adopt. He thought that an medicine, and in the church, a career wasalways open to merit;
order of merit, with pensions to its members, should be and the greatest possible advantage accrued to all classes, and
colluded; and that the appointments in the Tower should be to the gentlemen themselves, from the honourable emulation
given entirely to retired non-commissioned officers. Then there and competition inspired among them. Another important
was another point to which he must call the attention of the question was, how they were to get men for their army. At
hones, although it was not his desire to restrict the patronage the present moment it 'could notfairly be said that the army
of the Crown, and particularly of such a Sovereign as the was popular with the great mass of the middle and working
present. The' Yeomen of the Guard and the Gentlemen classes ; for a father always heard that his son had entered it
Pensioners were both the body guard of her Majesty; and with a feeling of regret, and even of shame. (Hear.) The
yet Mr. Same, the librarian, of St. James's-street, was one of objections made to any alteration in the system of purchase
the Gentlemen Pensioners. He thought that was 'not a resolved themselves mainly into the difficulty of finding a sub-:
situation which should be held by such men. He did not, stituto for it. That might be a forcible enough argument, if
as he had said, wish to interfere with her Majesty's patronage, the motion before the house wore one to abolish the present
but he did wish that the vacancies in this force should be system altogether, but not so when the motion was simply for
filled up on the recommendation of the Commander-in-Chief inquiry. The time was come when Government ought to take
rather than of Lord Foley. Before he sat down he could not the matter up, and institute a general and comprehensive in-
help commenting upon the injustice of those who talked of gully into the system of officering our army; when an at-
the soldiers fighting under the cold shade of the aristocracy. tempt should be made to eradicate those evils and place our
Was this a time for us to be told this when we had fresh in army on a more pOpulter footing, a footing on which the mili-
our recollection, and almost before our eyes, the gallant cavalry tary career might be open to talent, in which money would
charge of Balaklava, headed by the Earl of Cardigan- --the not be the sole test of capacity, by which the army might be
heroic conduct of a scion of the house of Percy, who at Joker- composed of gentlemen, but of poor gentlemen, who would
man plunged alone into the thickest of the fight, and by leis thorough practical officers. Combined with that they might
charged too far down the bill, and had got themselves our- have an amount of promotion from the ranks sufficient to ren-
der the army popular, and to throw open the career of arms to
rounded by the enemy ; and thepot less gallant bearing on
the same day of Colonel Cadogan, another aristocratic name 9 a larger class of the community than at present. (Cheers.)
(Hear, hear.) lie' was surprised that the noble viscount Lord LOVAINE observed that in his opinion no case had
(Viscount Goderich), who used these expressions on a former been made out as yet for the destruction of a system which
evening, did not feel his own noble blood mantle in his had been found to work so well. He did not think that it was
eitesks at these attacks on his order. He should oppose the possible to introduce that unity of motion which had been
committee moved for by the gallant major opposite, because talked about into the army as it was into a railway system.
ho did not think it a fit tribunal for the consideration of To accuse the officers of the British army of being ince-
this question ; but he would suggest to the noble lord at pable of performing their duties was most unwarrantable, and
the head of the Government the propriety of appointing a one which ought never to have been made in that house. The
faults which had been laid to the charge of the regimental
commission to take into their most serious attention the
points to which he had referred. (Hear, hear,) hfficers were due to those who had been removed beyond the
purchase system. He was also convinced that the abolition
death were filled according to seniority, cf
Mr. ALCOCK said that in the army vacancies caused by 1
this system would increase the slowness of promotion which
and those who had of
been so much complained of no
read the report of the army and navy commission which sat
explaining the question to hon. m. It was, however,
embers whom it was im use
pos-
in the year 1840 perhaps imagined that the same system was
sible to please, andwho continually bringing forward
were
Firmed in the navy. That report was, however a mockery,the •
a delusion, and a sham, and it should either be no, longer held long pursend similar matters. When the British army was
forth as an authority or Government should alter the whole compared with- foreign armies ono little item was omitted.
system. He hoped the latter would be the case. He did not It must be wren
that the British army alone was not
blame Sir Charles Napier or any other commander*for
nor in which promotions were now made, He
char
the man- raised by conscription, and that a different system must neces-
wholaxed the sarily take place ; but, however that might be, the slowness
o fault where he believed it ought
system.of promotion Was complained of in all armies ; and with ni-
ece,. LINDSAY 'd •4- spect to merit and favour it would be found that in this coun-
.ani
and sai 1,, was one thing to abolish theold try t
sys- hey ran so completely into one another that it would be
e , . i anot.her to create a
dieeession had been par' new oue. The system now under found extremely difficult to divide them. The promotion in
gmrceevternumber of years " and. parcel of the British army for a the navy was supposed to be carried on by merit, but it did
of the resolution, and it was matter. of surprise that the not appear that promotion in the navy was any more setis-
he won%
substitute in its t p what system factory than promotion in the army. It was also said that
of promotion 1) "ad' He contended that the plan the army was unpopular, That remark might be very beauti-
Y purchase was at
and td the -r once beneficial to the state ful in theory, bat it was contradicted by facts, for—as he had
ms. It was beneficial
was the means of saving a
considerable
the state inasmuch as it no doubt the Admiralty would bear witness—recruits for the
it was beneficial to t semke:
'rable sum of money, while army wore much more easily obtained than men for the navy.
sPeodily to the head orelir becauseif it brought officers Great complaints had been made of several of the depart-
were to be abolished, they
profession,wouldlecui_ie
to increase
present system merge. The medical staff, for instance, he considered had
for the retired full pay, evalca
~ouldi
adaincrease the charge been very hardly used. They had been overworked,- and if
0 es of the state. The present systee materially to the they had failed, they had failed under circumstances which
expens. I was likewise hon., - •
ficial to the rich, and at the expense or bein,acen,,sd
of ~• were unparalleled. The Commissariat had been annihilated by
dox; he would contend that it was also ben:ficial Co pare- the economy of the House of Commons, and there had been
purchase, those officers Who Were e poor. only one old man left in the department who was at all ac-
Under the system of
tion somehow or tithe " unable quainted with its working or routine. It would never do to
to pay for their promo
if they
r attained the Compare 'British - with foreign
. •
toe army with foresees armies which had been
heal of the list, and having done so
their
retire from constantly fighting in foreign countries. Nothing was easier
the army, they had
it
in their power to sell
It was a trite r
eoram* ission than to find faultbut it a..ev ei;ffi, lt to ,Ithe truth
w ery cu maze emark, but
and put the money in their pockets. appear to
the public when there was au appearance of great
knew when they entered d • • nevertheless
.a true one, that officers was in existence,
and deficiency in particular points He thought that it was not
the army that the system of purchase
exposed them to set wise to enter into such discussions in the midst of a war, and
therefore they could not complain if it
to suppose he should vote agaiust the motion.
degree of hardship. Moreover, it was a mistake h
purchase. • Lard SEYMOUR said that they were in the habit of talk-
that all promotions in the army were obtained p
iny the three lanago. is
thgrand style about Russia and Austria, and how Poland
The very reverse was the fact. For example,
2 lieutenant- all ittleetdistressed-aationalities were to be dealt with ; bat in
months which had passed of the present year
without it ; ad ane they soon came to talk more gravely. An lion.
colonels had been promote.d by purchase, and 47 b gallantdisorgauis .Inember got up and said that the army was utterly
7 majors by parchese, and 17 vvithout it; 42 captainsdin I, rather a curious contrast
must be reconstituted de ews'o. This was
purchase, 86 without it. So it Pad been at all timewan -
leer had complained rather of the course of promotion than, of contrast to a former debate. The hon. mem-
ranks a the Dritieb army, Ad was clear, therefore, that

.
any part of the service, which was attributed to the system experiment had been tried of prorating by merit, he believedi
of purchase. He (Lord Seymour) believed that on inquiry the no one had a right to say thatt-a represeptativertG..eo v,ehoeulimdecinot
system of purchase would be found to have very little to do was a failure in .respect of army promotions.
with it. He had no preference for the system of purchase— in the army what every man endeavoured to do in the man-
quite the contrary ; but when he was told that it must bo agement of his private afthirs, viz., strive to g et.the best
ser-
done away with, and the system of-promotion by merit insti- *ants to servo us, and if we could not
th
do
andthathy reesortneg to
tuted, he naturally wished to know what was meant by that. " a system of promotion based upon merit, i question
Was it to belong to the officer commanding the army I (Hear, should then collie, " Shall England exist as an independent
hear, hea •a) Look at the staff. All the recent promotions , State, or shall the House of Commons be sweptawayr.he
On tko staff ley that officer had been loudly' complained of. ; would say, if such a terrible alternative were offered to him,
Was it to belong to Government ? He should pity any unfor- I ' Rather perish the House of Commons, and let England be
tunate Government which took into its hands a system of pro- ' independent." (Hear.)
motion by merit. If any officer was looked over for any ma- Colonel DUNNE had listened with great attention to the
son, he would have ten friends in the house who would get E
up and defend him, and the house would have too nothing discover what his views were upon this question. The hon.
else but discuss individual merits. The system had. been tried honourable gentleman opposite, but he was really unable toviews
gentleman had given no clear explanation of how promotion
in- the navy. What had stopped it ? The influence of the ;in the army should be conducted, but he had told them that
House of Commons, which cried out for seniority, because de-
':
all former inquiries into its management were neutralised
serving men were passed over. It wouldnlways happen so by- the spirit of the Duke of Wellington. Now, he believed
in a representative government. It might have been easy it was not the opinion of that great man that neutralised
enough for Napoleon, at the head of his army, to select men the efforts of former commissions and committees, but the
by merit; but, even under his favourable cifetimstances, he I spirit of economy, which was then the curse of the time ; and
found it extremely difficult, and it led to such jealousies fur the seine reason he believed now a committee of this house
amongst his officers that it was the cause of maany of his dif- would do very little good. No soldier would defend promo-
ficulties, if not of his defeat, in Spain. (Hear.) That was lion by purchase in the abstract ; but, before it could bo abo-
under the mest favourable conditions. In time of war it was
,lisped, Parliament must vote large sums of money, not only
difficult enough, but what became of it in time of peace ? .In to buy up the vested interests of existing officers holding corn-
the Commissariat there bad been a period of probation most missions but to increase the pay of officers in the army, which
strictly guarded, and no candidate was promoted until he had ho was afraid hon. members who suPported this Motion would
been strictly proved. He had no doubt the appointments had -
not lie disposed to do when the pinch Came. Why, at the
been most fairly made ; but it was mo=t difficult in time of present moment the Government were actually selling corn-
pease to choose-men-for qualities useful in time of war. Lord
missions on their. own account, and yet nobody denounced it,
Raglan told the army committee that it was impossible to because the proceeds. brought -a -balance to the Exchequer,
make a commissariat in time of peace for a time of war. As and tended to reduce° the half-pay.list. Well now, that was
far as 'the accounts want they would be efficient, but for
just the feeling which stood in the way of abolishing promo-
other duties it was impossible to prepare them. He tion by purchase ; but still the fact was, the system was
(Lord Seymour) thought that statement was founded .on not to blame for our disasters 'in the Crimea, because
truth. If the purchase system were abolished there must be
in spite of its
a closing period for service at a certain age. Would there good officeri. It was not the - system, then, to
be no attempts in that house to make exceptions in favour of -Many Objeetions it had produced .
which we must look for the. cause of such disasters, but to the
men who were able and hearty ? Indeed, it was absurd to
.at a certain time of life. They shortcomings and defects,inthe heads of departments at home
say that a man must retire and abroad. No army in the world could have gone through
had, however, been told that the purchase system had failed. so much as ours, not even the. French army, who heel been
Now, he thought quite the contrary, for ho believed that the better supplied and better looked after ; bet until there were
officers had discharged their duties most admirably. - (near.) military men and Competent men placed at the head of the
They had the experience of the artillery, in which the want of civil departments, the efficiency of • the army could not be
promotion by purchase had been loudly complained of, and thoroughly complete. Ho quite acknowledged that wo had
the a. my committee were told that in no branch of the ser- got a bad system pf promotion, and was quite ready to join
vice were there se many aged .and infirm officers. Wh
been found to fail in the artillery ? The Duke of Wellingto ny: imnialliiioyaysootfemthoallt: for
ouldoseafpeluyrpdoosaew. ay with it, but-before they
therefore, should that system be generally adopted which had could do that the house must he prepared to vote over fife
•
in 1833, had in the artillery set aside the system so far as to Lord PALMERSTON said—Sir, if every one of the seven
allow a number of officers to sell out in order to infuse some
new blood into the service, and in fag had adopted the
con- sleepers, whose history we have read—(a laugh)—could
tem of purchase to that case, so far as selling out was con- have happened to wake up, after their many years' slumber,
tioonn. ,
members and their
to re paoriiiti sy
aware
se i n theine
definite library,
result. which
liewouldobj
eenablected
eerned. There had been several full inquiries inte the ques- and, being ignorant of what is passing in Europe, had come
suddenly into' this house to be present at this debate, judging
from• thee speeches we. have heard, they -
would have gone
to the speech of the hon. aid gallant member for Westminster
the other night. Ho had commanded a division with great away with the - melancholy conviction that this country Lad
and distinguished `success; but it was impossible not to feel sustained some great military disaster, and that we were on
• that they were hearing, not the general of division, but the the point of being conquered by sense great military power,
member for' Westminster, end that the member for West-
and that this house,with Roman and Spartan fortitude, were
minster interfered with the views which the general of
division would have taken. He must also object to the deliberating, in the midst of impending disastere, won the
terms of the motion, whiehrather begged the question, for it best means to be adopted for saving the country. (Hear.)
. ... _

But what is the real state of things / . Has our army sus-
tained defeats in the field ? Have our °Pleats shown them-
selves unequal to the duties which they have had to per-
form ? Had we, as represented by my honourable friend
the member for Kidderminster, found the people of this
country unwilling to enlist thernselyes under the banner of
their Sovereign to vindicate the honour of the country and
to maintain the contest in wh:ch we are engaged ? Looking
at our army, we find that it has achieved as great success as
at auk former period of our history. Instead of finding the
people of -this country hang back and shrink from the
engagement of the military service, there never was a time
at which so ' many brave men have offered themselves
to be enrolled in the ranks of our armyee: (Loud cheers.)
As far, therefore, as any change is demanded for the purpose
of encouraging the people of this country to enlist, I say that
no change is required, because the enlistment is going on
with the utmost rapidity, and with the greatest success
(Cheers.) But, then, it is said, that the system which now
exists is fatal to the army by depriving it of a proper supply
of regimental officers, for it is in regimental organisation, be
it observed, that this system' of purchase exists. Now, I
ungertake to say that there never was in the history of the
world a set of men who so nobly and efficiently 'perform their
duty as our regimental officers. (Cheers.) What is the test
of the conduct of officers? Why, it is, in the first place, to
obtain the godd will of their men—it is not only to share
with their men in the dangers of the fight, but to endure
with them all the privations and sufferings into which the
service may lead them. Now, I ask, have our officers ever
shrunk back in the field of battle ? Have they not led their
men to victory in conquests in which more honour and glory
have been reaped than almost ever fell to the fortune of arms
on any former occasion ? (Cheers.) I say that the manner
in which the meu followed their officers, and the manner in
which the officers led the men proves that there existed
between them a community of feeling which is the result
of reciprocal copfidenco in each other, and 'which shows
that the officers are worthy of the men, as the men are worthy
of those who are placed at their head. (Cheers.) Well then,
have they shrunk from those sufferings and privations, which
never were exceeded, and which probably have been seldom,
if ever, equalled? Why, we know very well that the soldier
of the army in the Crimea, when asked about, their 'own suffer-
ings, have said, " Well, it is true we are suffering much, but
our officers are sharing the same suffering with us—they are
not so accustomed to hardships as we are, and while they aro
suffering without complaint, it is not for us to be murmuring
at what we undergo." (Hear, hear.) So far as the motion
of the hen. and gallant gentleman is founded upon the expe-
rience of what the army is, I think that the grounds en which
he had attempted to place it, entirely fail. (Hear.) I ad-
mit, as I have done on a former occasion, that if we were
-planning an army for the first time, it is not likely that we
should propose to establish, it upon a system of purchase and
of sale. (Hoar.) But theroit is; and even those who have en-
deavoured to point out the evils which they attribute to the sys-
tem Lave shrunk when they miree to the point front surggesting-
theiouly way in which it could be got rid of.' The hon. and gal-
lent gentleman who has brought forward the subject seemed
to steer etudionsly'clear of making any suggestion as to what
method should be adopted to amend what he conceives to be
a vicious system. (Hear, hear.) But we all know that there
is only one way of getting rid of it ; and that is in the man-
ner which has been suggested by others, namely, that the
country should buy up the commissions which have been
bought and paid for by the officers of the army. (Hear, hear.)
Ib fel
housetchiwat.
ehvhenemai the evilssehe.ebas
of
fi oi
our
la
ritrh, e
service `present
Now,i ni snywsthth
ieecmhs
eI seniority wereic
preg-
nant in their consequences as to make it worth while to the
country to incur that large expense, it might be done. But
let not hon. gentlemen go away with any erroneous impres-
sion that such a system can be put au end to without a great
pecuniary sacrifice. Although the system is open to objec-
tion in point of principle, yet it is admitted by all that prac-
tically it is not without some advantages. The system of
promotion by seniority leads to a great accumulation in the
higher ranks of the service of men who from' age or infirmity
ere incapable of performing the duties which belong to their
position: That is admitted to he a very great fault in those
in which purchase and sale do not exist—in the Artillery, for
instance, and to a certain degree in another branch of our
service
sion greatwhich alone a ntdh esroe exists, i
sann and
oPurchase and sale to remove those who are desirous of retir-
ing, the only way in which accumulations can be prevented
is by placing upon the retired list of pensioners to the State
those officers who reach a certain age, and who, It must be
assumed from their age aro no longer fit for active duty.
That system is adopted in France:l believe that, in the French
army, officers 65 years of age are placed on the retired list,
and I remember hearing it said that when the regulation was
proposed V) Louis Philippe he observed that he would adopt it
for the army, but he hoped that his Ministers would not advise
him to pass a royal ordinance male ing it applicable to kings.
That system no doubt would; to some degree, exempt the
principle of seniority from the disadvantage of loading the
upper ranks in the army wiSh a great number of meu ad-
erced in life ; but, on the other hand, it would entail a con-
siderable expense on the country, and would frequently de-
prive it of the service of men quite able to perform active and
professional duties. One great advantage which is represee-
ted as likely to accrue from the abolition of purchase and
sale is, that men would be certain that promotion would go
by merit. Now in the navy there is no purchase and sale.
In the navy, therefore, we might expect to hear that the sys-
tem of promotion was free from any possibility of cavil and
objection. (Hear.), Bat the moment the navy is mentioned,
up get naval officers on both sides of the house and complain
that promotion all go by favour, or affection, or interest
(cheers)—by every mode, in short, except by a due apprecia-
tion of the merits' of the respective candidates. That, then,
is the state to which the motion of the hon. and gallant gen-
tleman would tend to bring the army. The fact is, that when
you say that promotion should go by merit, nothing in the
world is easier than to make such an assertion; but nothing
in the world is more difficult than to carry such a system
into practice. If you would establish a rule that promotion
should go by stature—that no man should be promoted who
did not stand six feet high---(laughter)—that promotion
should go, by physical qualities discernible by the eye, it
would be easy in that case to establish a rule, and to ensure
its most rigid execution. But what is merit ? Merit
is opinion—merit is the opinion which ono man forms of
another. Well, but - the man with whom it may rest to
exercise a judgment forms his opinion of the merits of the
different candidates from the appointments which may be
vacant ; but his opinion is sure to be disputed by a great
many disinterested judges, and certain to be denied by all the
friends of the persons who are unsuccessful candidates on the
occasion. (Hear.) And, therefore, the idea that by any
litimansystem merit can ensure the selection of persons for
appointments, civil or military, who shall bo universally ac-
knowledged to be appointed for merit alone, is a Utopia which
it is perfectly vain for anybody to hope to see established in
any country whatever. (Hear.) And it is a great mistake
to suppose that in the armies of the Continent no murmurs
arise, and that no fault is found—that in the French army,
the Austrian army, the Russian army, the Prussian army,
mightal.
are brought
canbt
raa,oksusegu
hrpetl
at
every man is satisfied that every appointment is filled by the
under
place—namely,
ah
ma that e l tyh, e y
p discussion.au
pur-
chase, are
most deserving, and that there exist no complaints on the
part of the unsuccessful candidates. (Hear.) If hon. members
labour
yiwhinwdehenire thatwhich
hpsr
these
promotion
poutrbiejosensci
subjects
mistaken, and that there are as many complaints that favour-
ritism and not merit-leads to promotion as we hear in this
(Hear.) I am -much disposed to agree with my hon. friend
the member for Kidderminster, who, reviewing the three sys-
lsleviciousilimaginesi .
that; aan d
combination although he eof didt
hneo not
three
lu.
epep
would
yotubl the thought,b by
som e
e, seniority, and-merit—seemed to condemn each and all.
l chemicalie
vethe fact process
(Cheers and laughter.) He seemed to make out that they
his argument tended to show that you ought to abolish all.
tohentehuattratlhiseeretliteenvoiceinouehs pprraopeetniesaitlieesvielfineaecuh:.
What is to be substituted in their stead I do not know, unless
and bring forth a neutral salt. (Cheers and laughter.) I be-
regimental system as to render it absolutely necessary for the
e which
of aree e notra operations
i to which:
s b e i
n learned
t he fi
elsimplyh
When
u l s a
denymatter
that
o t f form,th there
e buthas
the knowledge of is essentially necessary for the good
conduct
been any inefficiency on the part of the regimental officers, if I
am asked to what I attribute those sufferings which have, in some
, degree, been endured by our army in the Crimea, I would rather
not give my opinion on that point, but remind the house that
there is a committee now employed in investigating those
very clrcurnstances, and I must say I think the hon. and gal-
lant gentleman would do better to wait for the report of that
committee, which, no doubt, will probe the matter to the
bottom, and which will tell you, when they have _finished
whicht e ri uhqatvtieri
oe sc,c
atshi
oemeda cause
so
me ft 1
,tilstossiet
frteirnif,ogr_t uun
Ito
cm°
sissaer
yh a Ist cuefs_
firing, in my opinion—to those gallant men who are now em-
plpyed in the Crimea. . I think the hon. and gallant gentle-
man has not laid down any sufficient ground to induce the
house to adopt the course which ho recommends. But I have
a further objection to his course of proceeding. I think it is
not in 'harmony with the proper principles of our constitution.
(Hear.) After all is said and done, without meaning in the
least degree to question the power of this house to take into
its consideration any matters of public interest, I beg them to
recollect that the command of the army is, by the constitu-
tion of the eountiy, vested in the Crown, And not ha the

directed the committee to take care and re-eon-mend a more
effic!ent, system. The result, therefore, was anticipated, and
why take the trouble of leaking another blue book: (Hear,
hear)?- Ile should vote against the motion, for he did not
think that there were any grounds for granting a committee.
Mr. LOWE quite agreed with the noble lord that the guess
ties was an eminently prectical one, and that it was quite
right that before hon. gentlemen presumed to address the
house on this question they should liaa-u made themselves
acquainted with the documents referred to by tie noble lord.
He (Mr. Lowe) had clone so, and, as a civilian, he wished to
take this opportunity of seating the impression which those
documents had left on his mind. After a careful considera-
tion of them, it appeared to him expedient that the committee
should be granted, and he would proceed to state his reasons
as shortly as possible. In the first place, the committees and
the commissions were all held under circumstances disadvan-
tageous to a fair and impartial consideration of the sun jest
They were held at a time when the Duke of Wellington exer-
cised an overpowering influence on .the afficirs of the army.
If any one would examine the evidence, he would see that the
witnesses were overpowered by the weight of that eminent
man. They did not take the trouble to address the committee,
but to every question it was answered, " Your grace knows
this ;" ." My opinions agree with your grace's. ' They had
since lost that great man, and a great and irreparable
loss he was to the eiuntry, and the subject might be
now considered without the overpowering weight of his
influence and character. It appeared that there were three
several methods of promotion—by seniority, by purchase,
and by favour, That there are three methods alone
appeared to be a ground for inquiry. They could not all be
equally good, and it was worth while to know which was the
best. He maintained this proposition, that whatever merits
or defects there might be in each of these systems, they were
employed at such a disadvantage that the good was minimised
and the evil maximised, as much as possible. The great merit
of the system of seniority was, that whatever its collateral
evils were, it did justice between man .arsi man ; whatever
were its merits or defects, it was fair to-individuals, but fatal
to the service ; for, whilst • it opened places, it opened them
to men who were leastfitted to discharge the duties of those
places, as well as to these who were fitted, and it moreover
encumbered it with old and worn-out Jaen. When, there-
fore, ought the seniority system to be applied? „ When the
men were old or young ? When they waes less likely to be-
come old and worn-ou; ? if seniority was to be this rule, it
should be applied to tle junior ranks in the service. But in
practice it was banished almost entirely from the junior
branches,-where the promotion took place partly by pur-
chase, and partly by favour on death vacancies, and given
to the senior branches. So that the principle of seniority
was used at the greatest possible mechanical disadvantage.
The next was the system or purchase, with its good and evil
points also. The good was, that it esableci inefficient men
to get out of the service, and in this manner gave a relief to
the army from this class. He had never heard this system
advocated as good in it..lf, but only a' assistant to the
system of seniority, which would have been intolerable with-
oht this relief by purchase. The system of purchase ought,
therefore, to be applied when the men were worn out and
effete. It was, however, applied exactly in the reverse, when
the men were young, bet when they were old the system of
seniority was adopted. The third system was that of promo-
tion by favour. The mil of this system was, that the per-
sons who were appointed by favour might he unworthy ; the
good, that it gave facilities. for appointing deserving persons
who had beenleft out byrontine. leipractice all these three sys-
tems were employed exactly at a time of life, and in branches
of the service when they were least likely to do good, and
most likely to do mischief. The next question was which of
these systems was the right one. He took it that nobody
would defend the system of seniority. The Royal Commis-
sion had recommended that in the higher ranks of the ser-
vice the most competent officers should be selected, and in
fact had come to the conclusion that, after the system was
constructed, when a push came another system must be re-
sorted to. After this solemn condemnation of this system
by her Majesty's commissioners, he did not think it worth
while to say anything more. Next with respect to purchase.
He had before pointed out the benefits and evils of this sys-
tem. It afforded no criterion of merit. Merit was the acci-
dent—the possession of money the substance.. The one
might follow the other, or it might not, but that quality was
made the criterion of merit which had no connection with it.
The. facility of leaving the service prevented men from regard-
ing it as a profession, and he believed that it was on this ac-
count that the officers of the English army, who were men of
education, and superior in position and advantages to those of
other armies—were so often inferior in military science.
What was the effect et the purchase system ? Why, directly
an officer began to feel the annoyance incidental to field life,
he wished to sell out; and that feeling, in a great measure,
would account for the number of applications which had been
addressed to Lord Raglan for leave to quit the army in the
Crimea. Men whose courage it would be ridiculous to doubt,
because they had shown it again and again, were influenced
by the feeling that they had a right to sell what they bought,
and, naturally enough, they wished to withdraw from the
army, when they found the service no longer a career of
plea,suro, but a source of hardship and annoyance. But why
should the commander-in-chief be at liberty to fix the prize of
commissions, in defiance of the law of demand and supply ?
To pay more than the price so fixed was a misdemeanor, and
by that rule of the service it would almost seem that officers
obtained their promotion through a series of misdemeanors
It was said that cemmissions were ne eer put up to auction ;
but while that might be strictly true in fact, ho appealed to
hon. and gallant members to state whether, when there were
three officers in a regiment open to purchase, was it not the
practice for one of the three to give the other two a sum of
money not to buy ? Now was that a proper mode of defiling
with promotion in the army ? The noble lord who preceded
him was exceedingly anxious that, where meritorious men
could be found, they should be promoted from the ranks ;
but what was the use of promoting men from the ranks un-
less you gave them the full benefit of their professio.re ? It
was all very well for them to obtain such promotion in time
of war, when advancement might be rapid, but in time of
peace it was a mere mockery to tell the soldier you were
opening a career of holiour to him by raising him from the
ranks, when the want of money closed it. If they wanted
to make the army a profession like law or medicine, they
must hit upon some device, not merely for promoting the
soldier
atditehrfrhors
first the ranks, but which should also make him
f
promotion might lead to indefinite pro-
motion. What, then
the existing system, fo'r wash tht
of remedy, although perhaps the remedy might bo difficult
ohueghrteraedtheyy werefoi* the
ceevpilstibolef
and expensive ? The effort to remedy, the evil was worth
making, because, in the present state of European affitire, it
was absolutely necessary to maintain the army in the highest
state of efficiency. In order to compete with the great powers
of the world—and eompete with them we must—the army
should have a thoroughly efficient organisation, which could
not bo obtained under the purchase system, By establishing
that system, we had sold the sword and buckler of the coun-
try ; butwe must buy them back again, and substitute a system
which should be equal to the system of conscription. The abso-
lute conscription we could not have in a free country like this,
but we must have a system which would act as powerfully on
the will as the compulsory process. Now, no system could pos-
sibly do that which did not give the soldier who was properly
instructed in his duties a safe prospect of rising to the highest
honours of his profession. So far as the rank of captain went
he saw no objection to regulating the promotion by seniority,
provided always that the officer advanced had undergone an
examination sufficiently strict to satisfy any one that he was
fitted for the rank. Passing beyond the rank of captain
the real difficulty commenced, but he would suggest that
all officers above the rank of captain should be considered as
staff appointMents, and that these staff appointments should
be, as now, in the patronage of the head of the army only,
gal-
lantryto
in the field., or who should not have undergone such
au examine' ion as to fit him for anystaff
subject
who
appointment. Fer
condition, that they should be given to no
thhad not been promoted for extraordinary
the latter purpose he would suggest that a board of examiners
should be held three or four times a year, and any officer in
the army should be allowed to go before them to test his fit-
ness for a staff appointment. Ho did not expect that great
genius would be secured by that means ; but he was firmly.
convinced the plan would insure talent and efficiency. It
might not produce great generals, but it would provide able
officers, audit was, therefore, worth the cost of trying. the
public would have to buy up the existing commissions for the
sake of carrying out the plan, and the cost might be on the
whole grievously heavy, but in his opinion any number of
likem i millions i wionu ld
orderbe \
tvoe 11
organisespent
au
a great ai
this n
army worthyprotecting its wealth. But, said tho noble lord who last t wealthy
and
capable
country
of
ad-
dressed them, promotion by merit was impossible in a coun-
try likb this ; it might be done in a foreign country, but it
cou'd not be done here. Now, what did that statement
amount to ? Why it amounted to this, that we were to fight
awieet-ohunftoeidls to whileth
government, a House of Commons, could have . to such sym-
pathy ; and while the 'Emperor Nicholas or the Emperor
is, that taro
w enemyhr e a wasdespot to
fight
gcould withhaves perfects;
w d
Napoleon neither thought of friendship nor relationship when
selecting the best man to defend the honour and_ interests of
his country, Englishmen had so ' little patriotism, so little
regard for the public good, as to prefer a system of job;
bery rather than sacrifice political connections and family
treat promotion in the army as a. job ; but until taro
ties. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord would almost seem to
say—Let England perish if you will, bus continue to

House of Commons. The motion of the hon. and gallant
gentleman seems to be founded on the assumption that the I
command of the army is vested in the House of Commons,
and that a committee of this house- is a proper tribunal to
.consider matters i urely regarding the practical administration
of that army. I think we are very apt to lose sight in 601113
degree of our proper and 'useful functions. Ido not think
there would be any advantage in appointing a committee to
take into consideration those questions connected with the in-
terior economy of our army. I think that such inquiries ought
to be made by a commission emanating from the Crown, and
reporting to the Crown,which report might afterwards be com-
municated to the house for any purposes for 'which the house
might require it. But I think this house is not the authority
which ought properly to institute any inquiries of this kind.
(Hear.) That being the opinion which I entertain •on this
subject, I certainly cannot consent to the motion of the hon.
and gallant gentleman. The discussion . which has taken
place may be useful in pointing out to the Government cer-
tain matters for consideration. I can assure the house that
her Majesty's Government will be always-glad to hear sug•
gestions, and will anxiously desireto profit by them, as far as
they can do so consistently with the public advantage. But
with that reservation I must certainly give my opposition to
the motion of the honourable and gallant gentleman. (Hear,
hear.) ,
Mr. RICH, who rose amidst loud cries of "divide," said
he was inclined to vote for the first portion of the resolution,
but trusted the honourable and gallant gentleman would
omit the second portion.

Mr. P. O'BRIEN said that, although he did not pretend to
know much of military matters, still he knew that the ex-
penses of au infantry or cavalry mess were such as to make it
a great hardship, in the present state of things, for any ser-
geant from the ranks to be promoted to the position of com-
missioned officer. This ho thought—that at least it formed a
fitting object for inquiry by a select committee, and the
house ought not, therefore, to refuse the motion. At 'the
present time there was before the country the great and
glaring fact of the want of an efficient system of• promotion in
the army, and the hon. and gallant member :;•ho had proposed
the appointment of a committee to inquire into that subject
was well deserving the support and sympathy of the house.
(Hear, hear.).'
Major
.REED, having briefly replied, said he should be
willing, if the house desired it, to omit from his 'resolution
the latter clause, which placed upon the committee the duty
of recommending a more efficient system for securing pro-
motion to merit and long service.
The original motion having been withdrawn, the resolution
as amended by the omission of the latter portion was put
The house divided, when there appeared—
For he motion
Against it
Majority against the motion

. 104
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