The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-27 00:00:00

placing 350,000 men on his frontiers. It would have '
been an unpardonable want of foresight—a blunder for
which Ministers would have been justly reproached—if
they had neglected by every means in their power to
secure the alliance of Austria, or if by menaces or undue
pressure they had driven her to throw her weight into
the opposite scale, to act in the interest of Russia, or to
adopt even that system of neutrality embraced by Prus-
sia,, thus relieving our antagonist from all apprehension
of hostility in this quarter. They had done right, there-
fore, to show deference to Austria, and be mindful of
the peculiarities of her position ; and he must say, after
listening to all his noble and learned friend had said, he
could see nothing to repent or regret in any of the steps
they had taken. But in no way, and at no time, had
those communications with Austria been allowed to
influence or interfere with our military operations.
They certainly had looked to the negotiations of
Vienna to restore peace, or to secure the active co-ope-
ration of Austria ; but so determined were her Majesty's
Government that there should be no relaxation of hosti-
lities, that, before the opening of the conferences, the
Duke of Newcastle, after having ascertained that the
French Government would adopt the same course, wrote
to Lord Raglan to say that he was not to elackeu his
efforts, but the contrary, as her Majesty's Government
was convinced that the negotiaeions would be accelerated
rather than retarded by the vigorous prosecution of the
war, and believed that nothing would more tend than a
_
great military success to obtaining an
If, while these negotiations were proceedihonourable peace.
g, Sebas-
topol had fallen, he had little doubt that we should
either have concluded peace or secured the active co-
operation of Austria. (Hear.) His noble and learned
friend had spoken of the course of the Government as
that of men carried away in pursuit of phantom
shapes and deceived, and bad argued that Austria must
have dealt insincerely with us. He believed that, as re-
spected either Governments or individuals, nothing was
more difficult than to test sincerity. If a friend whose
interests were identical with your own, whose opinions
coincided with your own, and who was prepared to make
great sacrifices to carry out those opinions, if such a
friend all at once became what his nolele and learned
friend called cautious, stopped short, and, for reasons
which you could not adroit to be valid, refused to go
with you any further, you might be apt to doubt that
be bad been sincere in the first instance. Yet your in-
ference might be erroneous, and he might have been
Sincere. All he could say was, that from the first Aus-
tria regarded her • interests as identical with those of
England and France on what was called the Eastern
question; she took precisely the same view as they chi
of the aggressive designs and acts of Russia, and agreed
with them entirely as to the necessity of putting a
check on them. Although just before the commence-
ment of the war she had reduced her army by 90,000
riren, yet since the war commenced she had spent
16,000,0001. sterling in strengthening her army, and
placing :t on a war footing, and in erecting great barriers
against the pending invasion of Russia on the Polish
frontier. Nov this large expenditure was perhaps the '
best argument he could adduce with the view of proving
her sincerity, because certainly if it had been her object
to deceive us, she might have have made an experiment
with that view at much less cost. He must also say that
Austria had never required any impulse from France or
England in the proceedings of the various negotiations.
On the contrary, it was she who volunteered, saying that
she wished to confer, and who proposed the signature of
the protocol of December the 2d. When the confer-
ences opened Count Buol made the strong declaration
to which his noble and learned friend alluded, that Aus-
tria had contracted certain engagements with her allies,
and would adhere to them whatever might be the con-
sequence. If, therefore, she intended to deceive, she
went to work in a very weak and ill-advise I way, the
only result of which could bevel been to bring out her
had faith prominently before the world. (Hear, bear.)
The only object she could have proposed to herself by
such a line of conduct was that of retarding or crippling
our military operations, but that evidently had never en-
tered into her views. On the contrary, any military suc-
cess we gained was received with the greatest satisfac-
tion in Vienna, and their lordships would well remember
the telegraphic despatch of the Emperor of Austria to
the Emperor of the French and the Queen of England,
cengratulating them on the great event of the victory of
Inkerman, and desiring to associate himself in its con-
sequences. The plenipotentiary of Austria brought for-
ward the same proposals, expressed the same wishes,
and supported them by exactly the same language as
those of England and France, and it was only when
the proposals made were rejected, and the English and
French plenipotentaries declared they would go no fur-
ther, that Austria then said there were other means by
which the basis of the third point might be carried into
effect, and that those other means ought to be brought
forwar I. The conferences were adjourned sine die, and
so they would remain, but Count Briol observed that
their remaining in that state would be the cause of great
embarrassment to all parties, and he wished -to
redeem the pledge be had given at a farmer conference,
to make one last attempt at bringing the belligerents to-
gether. The answer to that was that we (the Ministry)
must see the proposal before we could give any opinion
upon it. The prepesal was sent us and declined, arid the
plenipotentiaries of England and France said Cloy could
only attend the conference f.ir the purpose of its being
closed. Count Fuel knew beforehand that this pr,posal
was to be refused, and he (the Earl of Clarendon) ap re
headed that it wn only brought forward at that confer-
- enca because he had pledged himself at a previous cue to
do so. The conference being closed, they said to A.ustria
that they tliought the time wa, now cone for her to fun'
the engagements into which she had entered. Her sus fiver
to that in substance was, that although Russia had n,4
agreed to the peopoeal made by the allied plenipoten-
tiaries on the third point, yet there were other means -of
giving effect to its basis by a system of counterpoise
—the opening of the Straits when the Sultan thought
himself in danger, a treaty to secure the independ-
ence of Turkey--by which arrangements the preponder-
ance of Russia would be terminated, and all anxiety for
the maintenance of the Turkish empire would cease ;
and consequently, as those terms bad been rejected by
the Western Powers, Austria did not think herself boned
to co-operate with them by taking part in the war. He
need hardly say that that was not their view of the en-
gagements taken by A ustria, or the mode in which the '
fulfilment of the treaty was to be accomplished. (Hear.)
But in justice we ought to consider the motives on which
the decision we regretted might be based. He thought
that when Austria entered into successive engagements
with England and France, and made extensive and
costly preparatiens for war—when, moreover, she ur-
gently pressed that military missions should be sent by
the allies to the bead=quarters of General Rev, there
could. be no doubt that she intended and expected
to go to war, though not very soon. She expected
that, before the season for operations commenced, the
allied armies would have gained a decisive :elven-
tage in the Crimea ; and being thus set free would have
been able to act in concert with her during a campaign
on the Danube. Let it be considered, further, that if
Austria had on our invitation, at the close of the con-
ferences, declared war against Russia, she would have
had to wage it single-banded as regarded support in
Germany. Could she have reckoned upon the assistance
of Prussia, or even upon her neutrality ? Could she have
been sure that she might. not have had to deal with ene-
mies on her flank and rear as well as in her front ? The
finances of Austria were not in a prosperous state, and
her resources were greatly crippled by her restricted
commerce. Her financial means were not equal to her
military expenditure, and on that account she did not
occupy the station which she ought to fill as a first-rate
power in Europe. (Hear, hear.) There were other
reasons, to which he did not think it prudent to allude,
which he had no doubt had influenced the decision of
Austria. (Hear, hear.) The noble and learned lord
had asked, what was our position with reference to
Austria? Austria had announced her readiness to con-
tinue to occupy the Principalities until peace could be
procured, in fulfilment of her treaty with her allies. To
that he did not oppose any objection, because the occu-
pation of the principalities, and the treaty on which it
was founded, prevented Austria from assuming a posi-
tion of neutrality. That possession and occupation was
an act of hnstility towards Russia, on account of which
Russia would be justified in declaring war, and as long as
Austria fulfilled her treaty with Turkey, he could not I.e
acting with RUS:I. It should be borne in mind that, if
Austria were to leave the Principalities, there would be
no security against the return of Russia, and it would be
impossible for the army of Omer Pacba to remain in the
Crimea. (Hear.) He had before announced that the four
bases were to be taken in their entirety, and as the third.
which was of the utmost importance, had' been rejected,
and the responsibility of that rejection rested on Russia,
her Majesty's Government considered themselves die-
engaged from those negotiations. (Cheers.) There
was not the least doubt that the great question in.
volved in the four bases must again come under discus-
sion, but England and France hail announced their de-
termination, stating that they had reserved the right to
go free and unfettered to any future negotiations, and to
make peace upon such conditions as they mielit
eider nowt advantageous to themselves and to Europe.
(Cheers.) He was compelled to abstain from following
his noble and learned friend through bis speech. Ile
thought it most desirable not to increase any misunder-
standing which might exist with respect to Austria, and
trusted that a still closer union would take place between
this country and Austria, which need not be despaired
of if we should be able to achieve any great military sue-
!,ss„. (Hear.) He did not think the proceedings of
the Government with regard to Austria ought to sub-
ject them to any censure. At no time, and in no manner,
had their military operations been relaxed in conse-
quence of the carrying on of negotiations ; and with re-
peat to their future piisition, so far from being worse, it
was improved, because England and Fr,neewerem'ore
free and unfettered than before in deciding upon what
terms should be made. (Cheers.)
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said he was not
about to censure the Government for having used their
best endeavours to conciliate Austria, and obtain her
concurrence in the measures which the allies had thought
fit to adopt for the protection of Turkey ; for it was of
the greatest importance to obtain the concurrence of
Austria in those measures.
,Hewasshenhoatd
about
exercised,to cen-
surefor Austria fdr the caution which
it was justified by the peculiar position in which she was
placed. He was not about to complain of the conduct
Austria had pursued since the termination of the negotia-
tions at Vienna. He admitted that Austria had performed
good service to the allies and to Europe. She found herself
at the commencement of these transactions with an army
lunch reduced in strength, and with her finances in a low
condition. She had made an effort to place her army on a
war establishment, and had placed it in a position threat-
ening to Russia, which had had the effect of diverting the
forces of Russia from action in the Crimea. But not only
bad the armed position of Austria effected this object,
but she had to consider her own position in Italy, in
Hungary, and in Poland ; and no doubt her position of

armed inactivity had had the effect of preserving tran-
quillity in all those countries, and also of checking the
ambition of Prussia. (Hear.) By the treaty of the 14th
of June, concluded with Turkey, and the movement of
her army into the principalities, Austria had practically
effected the evacuation of those principalities. All this
had Austria done by arming herself and placing a large
military force in a position threatening to Russia. But
she offered more. She offered before our expedition went
to the Crimea to communicate with the allies, with a
view to further military operations, and in consequence
of our determination to act on our o wn opinions in send-
ing an expedition to the Crimea, she told us she could
meet Russia alone, and that circumstances rendered it
necessary for her to adopt a different course of action.
At a subsequent period, when it was of great importance
that Austria should act with us, we had, looking to no-
thing but the success of the operations in the Crimea,
withdrawn from her immediate vicinity 50,000 good
Turkish troops, thus depriving her of the only assist.
ance on which she could have relied in the event of mi-
litary operations against her on the part of Russia. It
was evident that the ill-fated expedition to the Crimea
had penned Austria, and reduced her to a position of
difficulty, which prevented her from adopting a course
which was most essential to her honour and dignity, and
even her existence. Before the expedition had sailed to
the Crimea he had cautioned the Government on the
consequences of its being carried out, and the effect it
would have on the policy of Austria, but they adhered t 9
their own plans, and deprived themselves of the co-ope-
ration which they would otherwise have had. It was of
the greatest importance that At.stria should have held
that position which she had done. It was that security
which had been given to all the states in the central
parts of Europe which had enabled Franca to detach
such a large portion of her forces to the Crimea. He
did not desire to see the war extended to the central
parts of Europe, if, by possibility, that dreadful cala-
mity could be avoided ; and if he might offer any advice
to Austria, he would say, "Be armed—be strong—
threaten—be always ready to strike, but withhold your
hand until circumstances may occur which will justify
your action, and insure you almost certain success."
While he so far approved of the conduct of Austria, and
justified her caution, and believed she had acted accord-
ing to the dictates of political prudence, ho must express
the apprehension which he felt at the reports which were
daily circulated with respect to the intended reduction
of the Austrian forces. (Hear.) He cared little about,her
diplomacy, but he attached great importance to her mili-
tary movement& If she really had determined to make
a large reduction of her army, that was indeed an event
of the greatest possible significance, for it indicated an
entire change in her intentions and her policy. (Hear.)
Soch a proceeding would not only have a great effect
upon the war with Russia, but upon she position of every
state of Europe. Austria would be placing herself on a
level with Prussia—reducing herself from that position
of influence which she ought to po4eess as the first
great German power, and depriving herself of the means
of protecting Turkey ; for it was not the extent of ter-
ritory possessed by a nation—not the amount of its popu-
lation—not its financial means that gave it realinfluence
in negotiations ; it was the amount and real value of its
disposable military force which gave influence and effect
to any state. (Hear, hear.) Looking at our changed
position, it was impossible for him not to view with
considerable apprehension the condition in which this
country was placed. He earnestly pressed upon the con•
sideration of the Government the position in which the
country now stood. By, our alliance with Turkey,
France, and Sardinia, and the hope of having in the field
350,000 of the disposable troops of Austria, we might
look with some degree of confidence to the result of the
war ; but if we were compelled to dismiss from our minds
the hope of receiving such assistance—if we were to be
compelled to rely upon our own resources alone, it
was the bounden duty of the Government to consider
most earnestly and seriously by what means our military
resources might be largely increased, and at once to pro-
pose to Parliament measures which he deemed under
present circumstances peculiarly essential to a satisfac-
tory conclusion of the war. If statesmen did not take
care what they were about, the people, disgusted with
failure, would at no distant period leave statesmen to
fight it out by themselves. (Hear.)
The Duke of ARG YLL said that if to secure Austrian
co-operation we had sent our armies to the Danube, she
might have aided us to the frontier of the principalities ;
but there was nothing to lead us to suppose that she
would have continued that co-operation for any move-
ment beyond it. The noble and learned lord had ex-
pressed it as his opinion that no power bad gained at the
conferences at Vienna except Russia, that power having
announced to Austria its willingness to concede two
puints in which she was greatly interested. But that
intimation might have been given, and probably vvou'd
have been' given, by Rusia, even if the conferences had
not been entered into at all. (Hear.)
Lord DENMAN expressed a hope that more concili-
atory language would be adopted towarsls those nations
with whom this country was in alliance or might be ne-
gotiating. _

After a few remarks from the Marqui4 of CLANRI-
cARDEFind Earl GRANVILLE, their lordships adjourned
at half-oast nine.

ROUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPLFARITT: took the chair at 12 o'clock.
The Lo amendment,; to the Electric Telegraph
Company's Bill Were considered.
The following hills were read a third time and
passed :—Barrow Harbour, Furness Railway, and
Keighley and Kendal Road.
The following bills were considered and ordered to be
read a third time :—Dradford Corporation 'Water ; New
River Company and 'Trustees of the River Lee (No. 2).
BIRKENHEA.D, AND LIVERPOOL DOCKS BILL.
On the consideration of the above bill,
Mr. HORSFALL moved that it be read a third time
on Thursday next.

Mr. MII:NER GIBSON said he wished to introduce
an amendment. He considered it right, to support the
committees of the house generally ; but with respect to
this particular measure he believed the committee bad
not the public interests represented before them, and
it was for the conservation of the public in
terests that he wished to have an amendment
added to the hill. A commission had been appointed to
inquire into the dues levied upon ships and goods in
various parts of the United Kingdom, and it was the
intention of Parliament to legislato upon that report ;
and it was recommended by the Board of Trade that
any arrangement that might now be sanctioned with
respect to the Birkenhead Docks might not embarrass
any measures that Parliament might see necessary to
carry into effect. ' The right bon. gentleman concluded
by moving to insert certain words in the bill, the effect
of which was that the Corporation of Liverpool should
not have the power of diverting the dues raised on
shipping from maritime to mere corporation purposes.
Mr. G. BUTT opposed the amendment.
Mr. LABOUCH ERE expressed a hope that the house
would support the decision which the. committee, after
sitting nearly three months, had arrived at, and pass the
bill as it now stcod.
Mr. BRIGHT supported the amendment.

Mr. BOUVERfE, believing that the Corporation of
Liverpool bad out-generalled the Board of Trade on
this bill, said he should support the amendment.
Mr. WALPOLE supported .the bill as it came from
the committee.

Mr. CHAMBERS, who .addressed the house amidst
repeated cries of "divide," proceeded to point out the am-
biguous construction of the clause, and stated it to be
his intention to support the amendment.
Mr. HORSFALL regretted the bon. member for
Manchester had moved this amendment, and had im-
pugned the conduct of the committee. The committee,
after much care and attention, agreed to this clause,
adding to it the special report alluded to by the hon.
member for Manchester. The retention of this clause
was of such vital importance 'that the promoters of the
bill were advised that if the amendment of the right
hon. gentleman the member for Manchester be carried
it must be fatal to the bill, because it would prejudice
the rights of tho corporation.
Mr. G. VERNON defended the construction of the
clause, contending that the words used were plain and
comprehensive,
~:lfter some remarks from Mr. RICE in favour of the

clause,
Mr. CARDWELL said that bat one clear meaning
appeared to pervade the house, and to he the same as that
which originally pervaded the committee, that this bill
should stand on its own merits to effect the important
object for which it was intended, and that nothing in the
operation df the bill should be pleaded in bar
hereafter to any public measures the Crown might
think proper to introduce in conformity with the recom-
inendation of the commissioners, which had been laid on
the table. Be thought that house was not a good, tri-
bunal fcr deciding on the legal application of specific
words, and he felt a difficulty in appreciating the precise
effect between the words of the clause and the amend-
meat. When his, right hon. friend laid on the table the
measure of Government he believed that measure would
receive the full and dispassionate consideration of the
house, unprejudiced by the fact that the clause had been
introduced into a private bill. Believing that to be an
understood thing, ha thought it was undesirable to pre-
judice the matter by a division, and that his right hon.
friend would do wisely to accept the clause in the words
in which the committee had presented it.
Mr. GIBSON said that being the understanding he
would withdraw the amendment.
The amendment was accordingly withdrawn, and the
bill read a third time.
EAST KENT RAILWAY (EXTENSION TO
DOVER) BILL.
On the Speaker putting the question that this bill bo
read a third time,
Mr. BROCKMAN opposed the third reading of the
bill, believing that whilst there was a line to Folkestone
the public did not require one to Dover, and complained
that the South-Eastern Company had not been beard
against the bill. He proposed the re-committal of the
bill.

Captain EGERTON, chairman of the committee, de-
fended their conduct. The reason the Committee re-
fused to hear the South-Eastern Company was that no
property belonging to them was affected by this bill.
Mr. FITZROY considered no case had been made
out for the re-committal of this bill.
Mr. RICK denied that the property of the South
Eastern Railway was not affected by this bill. He
proceeded to show that the line in question pa-ised be-
tw,:en the terminus of the South Eastern Railway at
Dover and the pier where passengers embarked and dis-
embarked from the steamers. It also passed over the
flags in front of the Lord Warden Hotel, which be-
longed to the South-Eastern Company, although
leased for a number of years. The hon. gentleman con-
tended that the South-Eastern Company ought to have
been heard against this bill. . -
Mr. RICH explained that the pledge given by the 1
company had reference to the conetruction of a main

line, and not the branches. What he now complained
of was the branches.
__

After a few words from Mr. LUSHINGTON,
Mr. RICE was surprised at the opposition of the
hon. member for Richmond, recollecting the pledge
given by the South-Eastern Company, of which the lion.
member was chairman, not to oppose the formation of
such a bill.

Mr. RICH denied that the company had violated any
pledge.'
Mr. RICE read the pledge, given by the. Company
under their seal to the House of Lordg, not to oppose
the construction of a direct line of railway to Dover.
(Hear from Mr. Rich.) With regard to the injury
complained of, in respect of the line passing in front of
the Lord Warden Hotel, he found it would pass at the
back of the property, and was approved of by the tenant
of the hotel.

Mr. JAMES MACGREGOR addressed the house,
describing this bill as one of the most extraordinary
that had been brought before the house. He thought
it a strange proceeding on the part of the committee not
to hear the South• Eastern Company against this bill
whose property was affected by it.
The amendment was ultimately withdrawn, and the
bill read a third time.

Petitions were presented by Sir T. Ackland agiinst
the Church Rate Bill, and by Mr. Spooner against the
grant to the College of Maynooth. Several other peti-
tions were presented against the Church Rate Bill.
• _

The house then resumed itself into committee on-the
Metropolis Local Management Bill.
On clause 158 being proposed, which gave power to
the Board of Works to make bye laws,
Sir B. HALL proposed to amend it, for the purpose
of giving a similar power to the Metropolitan Board.
• The amendment was agreed to, and the clause as
amended was ordered to stand part of the bill.
Clauses up to 160 were agreed to, with a few verbal
amendments.

Clause 161, relative to penalties on Gas Companies,
wa4 withdrawn.

Clauses 162 tl 173 inclusive were agreed to.
Sir B. HALL said that all these clauses were now in
operation in the metropolis, and he would take car, to,
inform the house upon clauses which involved any t
matter. This, however, would not arise unt' towards
the end of the bill,

On clause 174, making provision for damages and com-
pensation to be determined by a justice of the peace,
when not otherwise provided for by thti act,
Mr. HENLEY objected to such an arrangement, as
the amount of compensation which might be awarded
by the justice was not defined, and suggested some other
tribunal.

Sir B. HALL did not see how the matter could be re-
ferred to any other authority except a justice of the
peace, but in order to meet the view of his right lion.
friend he would substitute the words " metropolitan
police magistrate" for those of "justice of the peace," and
would take care to embody in the clause some provision
for a higher tribunal, where the damages exceeded a cer-
tain amount.

The clause, as amended, was then agreed to.
The remaining clauses, with some slight amendments,
were also ordered to stand part of the bill ; which was
fixed to come into operation on the Ist December next.
The postponed clauses were then proceeded with.
On clause 19,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY objected that there was no
governing power in the corporate body. All the mem-
bers were co-equal. Supposing it was necessary to sue
the board, who would the right hon. bart. propose
should be sued. Must the whole board be proceeded
against ?
Sir B. HALL said his idea in this matter was to act
upon the same principle as was is operation in boards of
guardians. If, however, any hon. member cohld sug-
gest any improvement in this clause which should, ac-
complish the object he bad in view, he should be most
happy to adopt the alteration.
After so-ne further discussion,—the clause was agreed
to, Sir B. HALL promising to take steps to amend it
in the report.
Clause 21, which was one of the postponed clalises,
and which proposed that two members of the Metropb-
litAn Board should be selected for the City, was agreed
to by inserting three instead of two.

Clauses 22 and 23 were struck out.
Clause 24 was agreed to with a few verbal amend.
meas.

Clause 25 was postponed.
On clause 2G being put, which proposed that the no-
mination of the chairman of the Central Board should
be referred to the Secretary of State,
Sir B. HALL prbposed to amend it by inserting that
that officer should be appointed by the Central Boat d,
and that he should receive a salary of not less than
1,5001. a-year, and not exceeding 2,0001.
Lord R. GROSVENOR objected to the proposition
that the central board should decide on the salary of
their chairman.

After some observations from Sir W. CLAY, Mr. B.
BARING, and Viscount EBRINGTON,
Mr. HENLEY thought the best course to pursue
would be to postpone the further consideration of the
clause till the .Committee had determined upon the num-
ber of members that should constitute the Board.
The further consideration of the clause was then post-
poned.
Tha CHAIRMAN reported progress,, and obtained leave
to sit again on Thursday, at 12 o'clock.

INDEMNITY DILL. •
The eommitteo on this bill was postpon©l to Thurs-
day, at 12 o'clock.
STOCK IN TRADE BILL.
Tile committee on this bill was also postponed to
Thursday.

ROYAL ASSENT.
Shortly before 4 o'clock Sir A. Clifford, the Usher of
the Black Rod, appeared lt the table, and summoned the
House to the House of Lords, to'hear the Royal assent
given by commission to several public and private bulb,
for which see our Lords' report.
The house then adjourned to six o'clock.

The house resumed at six o'clock.
NOTICE OF MOTION.
Mr. WISE gave notice that, on Tuesday, July 10; he
should move that an humble address be presented to her
Majesty, praying that her Majesty may be most graciously
pleased to issue her royal commands for a complete revision
of the diplomatic establishments of the United Kingdom.

QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE.
Mr. MALINS said that before the notices of motion
were c'Alled, he wished to refer for a motion to what had
taken. place last night. The house would remember that
he put a question to the First Lird of tho Admiralty with
regard to certain charges which had been utado against the
hon. member for Tynemooth, upon which occasion the
Speaker, on being referred to, stated that anything affect-
ing the right of an hon. member's seat in that house in-
volved a question of privilege. He then gave notice that
he would bring the subject forward this evening; but ho
had since been informed that it was not competent for him
to refer to a debate which had passed. Unless he was at
liberty to refer to the debate of last Friday, it would be
perfectly useless for him to bring the matter before the
house, and therefore he now appealed to the right hon.
gentleman in the chair, to know whether he was at liberty
to refer to the debate in question.
Tho SPEAKER said that the notice given by the hon.
and learned gentleman was most irregular. If any notice
was to be taken of certain words in the speech of an hon.
member, it ought to be taken at the time the words were
used ; but it was altogether informal to refer directly to
that speech.

SUNDAY TRADING BILL.
Mr. OTWAY wished to ask a question of the Secretary
of State for the Home Department with reference to the
Sunday-trading Bill. Considerable manifestation of popu-
lar feeling had been exhibited out of doors in consequence
of the progress of this bill, and ho therefore wished to ask
whether the measure had the sanction of her Majesty's
Government? and if the noble lord the member for Mid-
dlesex should think right to persevere with the bill,
whether the Government would oppose or support its fur-
ther progress?
Sir G. GREY said it was not his intention, if the noble
lord should persevere with the bill, to offer any opposition
to the house going on to consider its provisions in com-
mittee, and in committee he should state his opinion of
any amendments which might be proposed.
Mr. OTWAY said at the proper time ho should move
that the bill be read that day three months.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that in committee he should move
that all the dabs in London be included in the provisions
of the bill, (Hear, hear.)
Mr. M. GIBSON asked whether the house were dis-
tinctly to understand that the Government assumed no xe-
sponeib:lity whatever with respect to this measure?
Sir G. GREY said it was not a Government measure.
It had been introduced by the noble lord the member for
blißlesex, and supported, he believed, by almost all the
metropolitan members. (No, no.) The Government were
not at all responsible for it. He had already expressed
his opinion with regard to many details ; and he should
be prepared to do so upon any question that might here-
after be brought _before the house.
Mr. MASSEY asked whether the noble lord the mem-
ber for Middlesex intended to persevere with the bill ?
Lord It. GROSVENOR said ho had no objection to
reply to the question of the hon. gentleman, but ho hoped
the honso would grant its induglonce by allowing him to
do so at some length.' He' supposed that the hon. gentle-
men had put the question iu consequence of what had
passed in Hyde-parlc last Sunday. (Cheers, and cries of
" No, no.") Ho begged to inform the house that since
that meeting took place he had received several letters
from working men, in which they spoke of thA persons
there assembled in no very complimentary language.,
(Hear, hear.) It was not his intention to speak in un-
courteous terms of those persons, forhe considered that the
expression of opinion of the very humblest classes of
society ought not to be treated, with indifference and con-
tempt, provided always that the opinion was expressed in
a proper manner.
Mr. ROEBUCK rose to order. He wished to know
whether an hon. gentleman, in replying to a question, was
allowed to U3O arguments which ought to bo answered at
the time they were used? (Cheers.)
The SPEAKER said tho noble lord was certainly not in
order; but he had appealed to the indulgence of the house
in the commencement of his remarks._

Lord R. GROSVENOR was continuing his address
wbou be was interruptA by cries of " Order." '

I.IIIIeSPEAKER s :id au bon. gentleman having taken an
objection to the noble lord's proceeding, which was not
strictly in order, he should suggest be the noble lord to
postpone his observations until the bill came before the
house.
Lord R. GROSVENOR, in reply to the hon. gentleman
(Mr. Massey), stated that the responsibility did not rest
with him, but with the house, and he did intend to perse-
vere with the bill.
OFFICIAL SALARIES.
_ _

Mr. W. WILLIAMS asked the First Lord of the Trea-
sury whether, in compliance- with the vote of the house on
the 22d May, the Government intended to carry into effect
the recommendations of the select committee of 1850 re-
spectin., official salaries ?
Lord PALMERSTON said that the recommendations of
the committee bad been very maturely considered by the
Government at the time. Many of thorn were carried into
effect, and some were not. Explanations on the subject
were then given to Parliament. What had passed on a
former evening did not at all touch the question of official
salaries; the discussion turned entirely on certain diplomatic
appointments and tho salaries attached to some of those
appointments. The resolution was carried, although

hon. gentleman who proposed it announced his intention of
withdrawing, by one of those surprises which sometimes
took place, and when no one expected a division. (Haar,
hearj He could only say that ho thought the recommen•
dations suggested in the speech of the hon gentleman who
moved the resolutions could not be carried into effect with-
out gfeat injury to the public service.
Mr. WISE gave notice that, in consequerice of the un-
satisfactory answer of the noble lord, he should, on Tues-
day, the 20th of July, move " That an humble address be
presented to her Majesty, praying that her Majesty may be
most graciously pleased to sssue her royal commands for a
complete revision of the diplomatic establishments of the
United Kingdom."

CANADA AND THE WEST INDIES.
Mr. RICARDO asked the Secretary of State, for the
Colonies whether any treaty for a remission or diminution
of duties had been made, or was contemplated, between
Canada and the West India Colonies, or any part thereof,
in which the whole of the British possessions were not in-
cluded ; and whether the Government had sanctioned or
would sanction the principle of a colony entering into a
fiscal arrangement which aid not comprehend the whole of
the British Empire?

Lord J. RUSSELL said that no treaty was made or
contemplated between Canada and the West Indian colo-
nies for the remission or diminution of duties. There had
been a communication from British Guiana saying that
a proposition had been made similar to that which had
been made between this country and the United States.
He had referred the proposition to the Board of Trade,,
which had reported•very strongly against it, and he should'
not, therefore, give any such proposal his support.
THE EXPEDITION TO KERTCH.
Mr. GIBSON wished to put a question to the noble lord
at the head of the Government in reference to the recent
operations at Kertch and other places in the Sea of Azoff.
Grave charges had been made against the character of
Englishmen and English officers which he did not believe,
and which. if not true, ought to receive a contradiction
from the Ministers of the Crown. He had seen statements
made Li private letters and published in the public journals.
It was stated in the Times newspaper that when the allies
entered Kertch the population made their submission, and
offered them bread and salt, and they were assured they
would be protected, and their lives and property would be
spared.. The correspondent went on to say that a great de-
struction of property followed, and more than that—that
torards eve ,g Turkish stragglers from the camp, and
hers who halfallen out of the line of march, flocked into
t e town; and perpetrated the most atrocious crimes ; to
pillage and wanton devastation they added viola ion and
murder. The French patrols endeavoured to preserve order,
but there was the Rations imputation upon the English
character that our lieutenant general was the cause of these
destructive excesses from his apathy or neglect. Ho did not
believe this statement, but he wished to ask whether the
noble lord at the head of the Government had received any
information on the subject?
Lord PALMERSTON—Her Majesty's Government have
received no information with regard to the transactions to
which my right hon. friend's question relates. My atten-
tion was called to the statement be has quotedfrom a news-
paper, and my noble friend at the head of the War Depart-
ment will, without any delay, call far such report touching
these transactions as may be given by the officers in ooin-
I mand in that sea.

CIRCASSIA.
Lord J. MANNERS taid the house was aware that all
the forts on the Circassian coast were now in the posses-
sion of the Circassiaus, and that, throughout the Confer-
ences at Vienna, no mention whatever was made of Cir-
cassia. The last despatch from Admiral Lyons stated that
Mr. LcingfOrd had been sent to Anapa to superintend the
political part of the question, Ho wished to ask in what
capacity Mr. Lonford had been sent to Anapa, and what
were the relations at present existing between her Majes-
ty's Government and the Circassian chiefs?
Lord PALMERSTON said that Mr. Longford was her
Majesty's Consul at Monastir, and he had appointed that
gentleman when he was Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs, in consequence of his having passed much time in
that country, and being well acquainted with its manners,
habits, and language. When an operation was contem-
plated at Anapa, it was expected that the Circassian tribes
would co-operate with the allies, and Mr. Longford was ac-
cordingly sent there, being well acquainted with the peo-
ple, as an organ of communication between the alliedcom-
menders and the Circassian tribes. There were no rela-
tions existing between her Majesty's Government and the
Circassian chiefs, except those arising out of the co-opera-
tion in the attack upon Anapa.
Mr. BAILEY asked in what capacity Col. Lloyd had
been sent to Cireassia last year, with a salary of 2,000/. ?
Lord PALMERSTON said that Colonel Lloyd was ap-
pointed to open communications with the people, and to
ascertain to what extent, and upon what terms, their co-
operation could be obtained.
NEW WRIT FOR THE CIIY OF LONDON.
Mr. T. DUNCOM SE moved the issue of a new writ for
the city of London, in the place of Baron Rothschild, who,
since his election, had entered into a contract for the public
service. Ho said he might have proposed to send this
question to a select committee, but ho considered the law
of the case was so clear that he could not agree to take
such a shabby course. He read the terms of the act, and
gave a history of the circumstances under which it had
been passed, and contended that the provisions of the act
would not be met if Baron Rothschild merely declined to
take his seat, for in that way 50 members might Vacate
their seats and their constituents might be unrepresented.
He quoted from Mr. Fox and other members who took
part in the discussion when the law was passed, to show
that it was intended to embrace contracts for money and
obtained by public competition ; and contendine that the
case was clear, he moved that the writ -for the seat of
Baron Rothschild do now issue.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL admitted that the iaw
was as the hon. gentleman had stated it, though. perhaps
there were one or two etttbignous' phrases in it. But, on
the other hand, he must remind the how' that loan con-
tractors had repeatedly sat in that house since the act was
passed without any one challenging their seats ; and on
that ground, and also as Baron Rothschild was not in the
house to defend himself, he thought it would be better
to refer the question to a select committee. There was a
precedent for this course in the select committee which
was appointed to consider the case of Mr. Daniel Whittle
Harvey, a member of this house, on his 'being appointed
registrar of hackney carriages.
Mr. WALPOLE seconde the amendment on the same
grounds.

- Sir F. THESIGER contended that the precedent quoted
by the Attorney-General was not applicable to this case.
In the present instance there was no doubt as to the facts,
and he held there could be as little doubt as to the law ; so
that there was no reason whatever for the house delegating
its functions to a committee, who were no more competent
to the task than itself. It was very true that loan contrac-
tors had often sat in that house without challenge, but then
a blot was not a blot till it was hit. It was not a lawyer's
question at all; every member of the house was as compe-
tent to decide upon the matter as he was. He would, there-
fore, support the hon. gentleman's motion.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought the case was by no means
so clear. The difficulty to his mind was that so many loan
contractors had been allowed to sit in that house in former
times without challenge from any one, and it was hard to
believe that no one should have discovered the scope of the
law till the hon. member for Finsbury applied his atten-
tion to it. Ile reminded the house further that all who
had since taken shares in this loan had come under the
terms of the act as much as Baron Rothschild.
Mr. M. GIBSON also thought it likely that every mem-
ber of the house who had taken a share in the loan exposed
himself to the penalties of this bill. He further called
attention to the fact that the Secretary to the Treasury
had violated the provisions of the act by allowing a mem-
ber of Parliament to take the contract, and that Baron
Rothschild had incurred a penalty of 000/. for every mem-
ber of Parliament to whom he had given shares of the con-
tract.

Mr. lIILDTARD denied that the act affected any One
but the contractor; and, even were it otherwise, he de-
nounced the morality which would tamper with the provi-
sions of an act for fear it should affect themselves.
After some further discussion,
Mr. BRIGHT suggested that the morality of the coun-
try, and especially of Parliament, had outgrown the pro-
visions of this act, and proposed that it should be referred
to this committee to consider whether the whole law re-
lating to contractors might not be repealed altogether.
Lord PALAIERSTON was in favour of sending the
question to a select committee, and thought the suggestion
of Mr. Bright well de•erving of consideration.
Mr. DUNCOMBE then withdrew his motion, and the
amendment for appointing a select committee wasagreed to.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL (1855).
The SPEAKER announced that the Lords had agreed
to the Charitable Trusts Bill (1855).
SEBASTOPOL COMMITTEE REPORT.

Mr. ROEBUCK postponed his motion on this subject
till Tuesday the 10th of July.

SUNDAY BEER. ACT.

Numerous petitions having been preauted against this
act,

Mr. H. BERKELEY rose to move fora select committee
to inquire into the act of last session, for further regulating
the sale of beer and other liquors on the Lord's-day. He
said that when that bill passed into a law, it was hardly
known to any member of that house. There were the names
of three members to the back of that bill, which were a gua-
rantee for it ; but ho thought these hon. gentlemen had
made an oversight, and he-opposed it cm its third reading as
a measure that would be one-sided in its operation,and that
it only curtailed the enjoyment of the humbler classes.
Every succeeding Sunday had batrayed the glaring injustice
of that act. The greatest blessing that had been bestowed
on the working classes was the facilities that had been
afforded them of viewing the beauties of nature at a distance
from home. Mang thousands of the population had lived
and died without having been five miles from their homes,
and many of the inhabitants of London, though living on
an arm of the sea, had never seen that glorious expanse of
water. It was ridiculous to say that people who had been
hard at work for six days should spend the seventh on their
bended knees in some dingy chapel or church, listening to
the oily outpourings of some canting Stiggins. He did not
advocate a want of religion, but, he did object to the in-
terference with the working •classes, as this bill did.
He would follow a working and a rich man through a
Sunday's excursion. The poor man, when he had de-
terminedjon a day's pleasure, was up at five o'clock in
the morning, locked up his house—having nothing in it
he feared losing, and went forward depending on the pub •
lie-houses for refreshment. When he arrived by the train
he would find they were all shut, and would not be open
until six o'clock; but then the train started by that tithe,
and he was compelled to return, and got back to town too
late for the public-houses there ; and thus, having been.
defrauded out of hiS dinner in tho country, he was obliged
to go to bed supperless because ho had not a well-stocked
larder. The rich man, on the other hand, could go where
he pleased, and there was not an inn that would not open
its doors to him. Ho could there have luncheon, and when
he returned home his larder would supply him with every
luxury, and he could well afford to do without draught
porter for one day in the week, when his cellars were well
supplied by Messrs,. Bass and Guinness. He could also, if
he chose, go to his club, whose door was never shut, clay or
night, and could have whatever be desired. Ho might, if
he thought ,proper, go to any hotel, who would willingly
take hire in. Therefore the law was one-sided in its ope-
ration, and he warned the house to beware how it tam-
pered with the enjoyments of the poor man. The hon. gen-
tleman then complained of the anomalousposition publicans
were placed its by the total absence of any rule to guide
them or the magistracy as to what constituted a traveller.
Some magistrates held that a man in a post-chaise was
a traveller,. though in a fly ho was not ; and one gen-
tleman held that brandy and water was not the refreshment
of a traveller, but was the drink of a pleasure party. Mr.
Trail, of Greenwich, will not allow parties on pleasure to
come within the meaning of the act, while the more liberal
bench of Ilford holds that any man going five miles along a
turnpike road, for any purpose whatever, was to all intents
and purposes a traveller within the meaning of the act.
Mr. Hardwick° thought that a man stopping on bis return
near his own house was not a traveller, while Mr. Norton
thought he was. The hon. gentleman quoted numerous
other instances, to show the perplexity the public were left
tO ;TEtifY colPt4uted a traveller, the complaints '