The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-09 00:00:00

solution to which he has come. I stated some time ago that I
had no objection to it on the first blush of the thing, but that
I had a great objection to the last part of the amendment.
and for the reasons which the right hon. gentleman himself
has given. He says he has re-considered his reasons, and
thought now, upon a full consideration, that there was no in-
vasion of the prerogative of the Crown in expressing an
opinion as to the terms ea which peace was made or war was
continued. I will not put it upon that abstract principle,
but I say that it is highly inexpedient for this house to take
into its hands negotiations with foreign powers, to state on
the one hand what are to be the terms of peaee, or, on the
other, what proposals ought to be rejected. Any expression
of feeling on the part of this house cannot fail to be embarrass-
ing to those who are conducting the negotiations, and inju-
rious to the interests of the country. If that remark is ap-
plicable to a war in which we are singly engaged, it is infi-
nitely more dangerous when we are engaged, in concert with
allies, with whom, step by step, and at every step, we must
consult upon terms to be accepted or refused—(cheers)—
with ,whom we must agree in every step taken in the ne-
gotiation. It is evident, therefore, that for this house
to lay down an opinion as to the adoption or rejection of
terms of peace and war is much to be deprecated, is highly
injurious and embarrassing. If the right hon. gentleman does
not take offence at my agreeing with him—(laughter)—l
think there is so much force in the argument that the two
amendments are so linked together that any objection that
applies to the last applies equally to the first. (Hear.) So
far, therefore, from not accepting that cautious bridge which
the right hon. gentleman says has been constructed by my
right hon. friend, so far from expressing an opinion averse
to his amendment, I am prepared to vote for it, and the
best thing I think the house could do is to take that
amendment with part of the amendment of the hon. gentle-
man, and allow that to be the distinct question before it.
(Hear, hear.) I hope the hon. and learned member will
allow his amendment to be cleared away—(laughter)—so
that the house may come to a vote on the amendment of my
right honourable friend. With regard to the course of the
debate, ono circumstance impressed itself very much on any
mind. We have been debating the most important matters,
involving interests of the deepest nature, and the debate has
in general been conducted with calmness and temper, and
that deep consideration so becoming the gravity of the sub-
ject. The only exception to that rule has been evinced by

the advocates of peace. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Those
gentlemen had peace in their hearts, but they had war in
their mouths. (Cheers.) They showed so much heat, and
passion, and violence—their speeches were delivered in a
manner that showed how angry passions were struggling for
mastery within them—(cheers)—and to judge from those
speeches—the manner, the substance, and the language of
them—any one would say they were much fitter to be a
party for war at all hazards than a party for peace at any
price. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) But their arguments
were not such as are likely to have much influence in
the debate. They have been complimented for their
courage in standing forward as the champions of their par-
ticular opinions. But I even doubt if they deserved
that compliment, for the danger of their opinions has not
been much increased by the speeches in which they delivered
them. The hon. member for the West Riding says that the
periodical press goaded public opinion into a temper for this
war. That was an assertion quite at variance with the histo-
rical fact. (Hear, hear.) So far from the periodical press
goading the public feeling into an artificial excitement, the
people of this country tyo years ago exhibited their delibe-
rate opinion and conviction ; they wanted no stimulant or
excitement ; they acted from their own instinct and feelings
—those manly feelings which, in spite of the peace party, I
hope will animate the people of England. (Hear.) But it is
somewhat extraordinary that those gentlemen who had risen
to eminence on the strength of public opinion upon a question
on which public opinion went with them, should now re-
proach and taunt the members of this ho'use with being un-
true organs of public opinion. (Hear, hear.) After having
built their own fame on being the organs of public opinion
and the national will, it is strange that they should now
endeavour to make it a reproach to this house and to the
government that they were following the national feeling on
this great question. (Hear, hear.) At this late hour I will
not follow them in their many fallacies. (Hear, hear.) Their
speeches abounded in fallacies. (Hear.) The hon. member
for the West Riding, I believe, said that we proposed to limit
the force of Russia in the Black Sea to 4 sail of the line and
4 frigates, but that Russia, by certain contrivances, could
make her fleet in the Black Sea greater than it was before.
Well, if that be so, why did not Russia accept our proposal ?
(Hear.) The hon. gentleman said that Russia did not accept
it, because it would have been incons'stent with her honour.
It is, therefore, for her honour and glory that Russia is main-
taining this war, but the hon. gentleman has told us over and
over again that honour and glory are not things for which a
nation should fight—that we should fight only for other lower
considerations which I will not further advert to. (Laugh
ter.) The hon. gentleman, however, said that he would fight
—(laughter!—hut that if the enemy wore to come to Ports-
mouth—not to the Isle of Wight—(laughter)—but to Ports-
mouth, he would—go into an hospital. (Loud laughter.)
But many persons in this country—let not the hon. gentlemen
deceive themselves upon it—think that that party ought to
go into hospital indeed, but an hospital of a very different
kind—an hospital which I shall not mention, but which every-
body understands. (Laughter.) Those gentlemen who are so
anxious to make peace on their own terms say what madness
it is to go to war with a nation numbering 60 millions of in-
habitants. But do they know that the population of England
and France also numbers about 60 millions, and that they have
the further advantage of concentration, and all the arts and
appliances which civilisation and science can give in addition
to the national feelings which belong to nations in the condi •
tiou of England and France, but which never can be asserted
by the unhappy serfs of the sovereign with whom they are
contending ? The hon. member for Manchester, in a speech of
undoubted talent, has been pleased to find fault with me for
treating, as he says, grave subjects with unbecoming levity.
(Hear.) lam not conscious of deserving that reproach ; but
the house will not accuse him on that head, for certainly his
j( kes had not much levity in them. (Laughter.) I heard
with regret the change of opinion which had taken place in
the minds of the right hon. gentlemen who had lately left the
Government, because, as well and properly acknowledged by
them, they were not only parties to the war, and t the terms
which should in general be proposed as the terms of peace,
but they were distinctly parties to the insisting upon that
particular condition of the limitation of the naval forces of
Russia in the Black Sea. (Hear, hear.) There was one con-
dition which they stipulated should be made, but it is not
the limitation of the naval forces of Russia in the Black Sea.
(" Hear" from Sir J. Graham.) To that condition, therefore,
they must be supposed to have assented. But I will not al-
lude further to that subject. I think it is hatdly necessary at
this time of day, and at this period of the debate, to urge the
reason why it is right, and necessary, and just, that England
and France should draw the sword in defence of Turkey. It is
not necessary for me to follow in detail all the extensions of
territory which has marked the advance of Russia for a long
time. It would be easy for me' to follow her from the East-
ern shores of Asia through Central Asia, through the Caspian
Sea, through Armenia, Poland, and the Danube, and then
through the extreme confines of Norway and the Arctic Sea
--it would be easy for me to show that in her treaties she
never took any natural boundary as the limit of her territory,
but some artificial separation which would give her the pre-
tence or the occasion for furtber aggression. When such has
been the policy pursued by Russia, and when we find the pre-
sent Emperor of Russia declaring that his mission was to
carry into effect the system pursued by Peter and Catherine,
and Alexander and Nicholas, we felt that the time was come
for defending the independence of Turkey and of Europe from
such aggression. (Hear.) War, therefore, was declared, and
Austria having expressed her desire to bring that war to a
termination by amicable means the treaty of December was
concluded, the purport of which was, that-if peace was not
secured by a certain time on the basis of the four points,
Austria would—not take the field—but enter into concert
with England and France for devising means to carry out the
object of the allies, that object being to secure the indepen-
dence of Turkey. (Hear.) England and France would there-
fore have been blameable if they had not entered into these
negotiations ; but had the operations of the war in the mean-
time been suspended? On the contrary, they had been car-
ried on with the utmost vigour during the conferences.
(Hear.) The right hon. gentleman had made several sugges-
tions, some of which were no doubt well deserving of consi-
deration. He wished, for instance, to have the Principalities
declared to be neutral. He (the noble lord) was not disposed,
however,itgreat practical importance to that pro-
lace, when a quarrel had arisen, and
p ospro-
position. to
In attach
thefii
first
p
when it became desirable for the belligerent powers to possess
the neutral territory, that neutrality had never been very re-
ligiously respected. Besides, were the principalities, if de-
clared neutral, to be continued a portion of the Ottoman em-
pire If.they were not, then they would soon share the fate of
Poland ; if they were not, then the moment hostilities broke
out, Russiawould cease to respect their neutrality, for war dis,
solved all treaties. But the interests of the Principalities had
not been neglected. It had been proposed to put them under
the protection of the Five Powers, and to establish a system
of internal defence. A force would have been established
which, if not at once sufficient to resist a Russian invasion,
would have supplied the foundation of a national defence.
(Hear.) He (the noble lord) entirely differed from the right
hon. gentleman in thinking that the Black Sea was the side
on which Turkey was the least vulnqable. (Cheers.) On
the contrary, he believed that it was, on that side that
Russia could strike her most quickly, and to the heart.
(Hear, hear.) They all knew that the Turkish army at the
commencement of the present war had kept the Russian
forces on the Danube at bay for twelve months ; and on
a previous occasion, when the invasion was made by a
large army and under more favourable circumstances, it had
taken the itussians two years to get to Adrianople. On the
Asiatic side it was true that Russia had prepared a great for-
tress at a place called Gumri, a place which jutted into the
Turkish territory, and which was of no value except for pur-
poses of aggression. No doubt that by means of that fortress,
in connection with Tiflis, she would be able to invade Turkey
on the Asiatic side. But the march to Broussa was long, and
the Russian force would have to encounter the Asiatic Turks,
who were the most warlike of the Ottoman race. No doubt
that there might be danger on this side, which ought
to be provided against, but still the operation contem-
plated was one that would require time. But how stood
the ease with reference to the Black Sea Why Constan-
tinople was within forty-eight hours from Sebastopol. The
right hon. gentleman said that no great force could be
despatched against that city, but an army might be col-
lected at Sebastopol, and might in a very short time be sent
thither. The right hon. gentleman proposed to fortify the
Bosphorus, but there were places not far north of the city
where a large force might easily be put on shore. Why what
had we done ourselves Since the Ist of May we had landed
103,000 men and 14,000 horses in the Crimea ; and in the
course of ten days we had carried 40,000 Turks from Varna
to Eupatoria. (Hear.) There had been two propositions
with respect to the safety of Constantinople—the open straits
and the closed straits. Now, the former of these had been
entirely given up by every hon. gentleman who had addressed
the house, with the exception of the hon. member for the
West Ridliv, As a matter of fact, the straits were closed,
and had always been closed by the inherent right of Sove-
reignty which every state possessed over its own waters. And
this was no new thing. It was an ancient law of the Turkish
empire that the straits should be closed; though we were the
first in 1809 who entered into a treaty to respect it. Now,
*
supposing the straits were open, the Russian fleet of 18 or 20
ships of the line might any day appear off the Seraglio ; and
there could be no doubt that whatever demands might be
made that were supported by a demonstration of that
kind, they would be granted before night. But it was
said that the Turks might send for tho English and French
fleets. But where would they find them ? (Hear.) The
attempt might be made at a time when—as happened once
—we had only two ships of the line in the Mediterranean,
if he did not exaggerate the number—(laughter)—when we
had only/one at Spithead, and that it was intended to send to
America. Why, long before we could equip a fleet the whole
thing would be over. If the Straits were closed, precisely the
same thing would occur ; and th 4 only method therefore by
which they could secure Constantinople from the danger of
sudden attack would be to limit the Russian fleet in the Black
Sea. (Cheers,) It should be remembered that England and
France would have a right to keep as many ships in the
Euxine as Russia ; and the Turkish fleet might also be equal
in force, independently of any number of ships the Sultan
might choose to have in the Bosphorus and the Sea of Mar-
mora. (Hear.) He (the noble lord) thought, therefore, that
these terms might have been accepted by Russia without loss
of dignity ; and that at the same time they would have suffi-
ciently provided for the safety of Constantinople. But it was
said that under the Russian proposition, if Turkey should