The Sun.
London, England, 1855-09-25 00:00:00

'I 1 .

( • : 7:111 •• •

esi PTV

Gent., vice Prichard, promoted; John Bartholomew Cor-
ballis' Gent., vice Fiore, promoted.
42d Foot—Ensign W..P. Hesketh to be Lieutenant, by
purchase, vice Macpherson, promoted ; Fife Allan, Gent.,
to i.)e Ensign, by purchase, vice Hesketh, promoted.
47th Foot—Thomas Baillie Thomson, Gent., to be En-
sign, without purchase, vice Mallet, promoted. The Chris-
tian name of Ensign Roberts is Francis, and not John, as
previously stated.
50th Foot—Lieutenant John Thompson to be Captain,
without purchase, vice Frampton, promoted ; Ensign H. St,
B. Chichester to be Lieutenant, without purchase, vice
Thompson ; George Edge, Gent., to be Ensign, without
purchase, vice Chichester.
82d Foot—The name of the Lieutenant promoted from 131
the Cape Mounted Rifles on 21st September, 1855, is
Charles Studdert Mannsell, and not Charles Stuart Mann- 31
sell, as previously stated.
86th Foot—Captain Henry W. Gordon, from half-pay 27i
unattached, to be Captain, vice Rawlins, appointed to the
Invalid Depot at Chatham; Lieutenant 'M. Lepper to be et
Captain, by purchase, vice Gordon, who retires. 25
88th Foot—To be Captains, without purchase—Lieut.
W. C. Pearson, vice Corbett, killed in action; Lieutenant St.
H. H. Day, vice Wray, killed in action. St.
92d Foot—Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel G. E. Thorold to 10
be Lieutenant-Colonel, without purchase,- Brevet-Major
Robert M. Sutherland to be Major, without purchase, vice .‘241
Thorold. To be Captains, without purchase—Lieutenant 50
G. Stott, vice Sutherland; Lieutenant E. C. B. Elphin- 20
stone; Lieutenant C. Parsons; Lieut. J. A. M'Donald. 20
To be Lieutenants, without purchase—Ensign P. F. Gooch, 10
vice Stott ; Ensign T. Gordon, vice Elphinstone ; Ensign 50
W. H. Shafto, from the 25th Foot. To be Ensigns, with- 25
out purchase—Ensign H. A. Ellis, from the 93d Foot, vice
Gooch ; Ensign Francis Roberts, from the 47th Foot, vice 25
Gordon. Pt+

SHARE MARKETS.
(THIS DAY.)

.IrK::~~

RAILWAYS.

97th Foot—Ensign A. R. N. Gould to be Lieutenant,
without purchase, vice Preston, killed in action ; Samuel
Slater, Gent., to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Gould.
99th Foot—Lieutenant F. W. Despard, to be Cap-
tain, without purchase, vice Brevet-Lieutenant.
Colonel Reed, deceased; Lieutenant L. J. Nunn
to be Captain, by purchase, vice Despard, whose
promotion, by purchase, on June 1, has been cancelled ;
Ensign Charles William Quin, to be Lieutenant, without
purchase, vice Despard; George Richards Harvey, Gent.,
to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Quin.
Ist West India Regiment—Alexander M. William Sam-
son, Gent., to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Kenriok,
promoted.
Royal Canadian Rifle Regiment— Ensign C. R. Wil-
liams to be Lieutenant, without purchase, vice Sharpe,
promoted; Lieut. George Mignan Innes to be Adjutant,
vice Sharpe, promoted.
Saint Helena Regiment—Acting Assistant-Surgeon Jas.
Jardine, M.D., to be Assistant-Surgeon, vice Furlonge,
deceased.

LAND TRANSPORT CORPS.—William Handyside, from
Lieutenant and Adjutant of the Royal Engineer Field-
Equipment, to be Second Captain.
PROVISIONAL DEPOT BATTALlON.—Lieutenant-Colonel
the Honourable James Lyon Browne, unattached, to be
Lieutenant-Colonel.

INVALID DRPOT. Paymaster Charles Schomburg
Thomas, late Essex Rifles, to be Paymaster.
BRITISH GERMAN LEGION.—Iet Rifle Battalion—Fran-
cis Warren, Esq., to be Paymaster.
HOSPITAL STAFF.—Assistant-Surgeon James Fraser,
M.D., from the 25th Foot, to be Staff-Surgeon, Second
Class ; Assistant-Surgeon Andrew Leith Adams, M.D.,
from the 22d Foot, to be Staff-Surgeon of the Second Class;
Assistant-Surgeon Robert William Woolcombe, from half-
pay of the 68th Foot, to be Assistant-Surgeon to the
Forces.

R0me0....
Angelo ...
Haaby ....
Shakspere

BRE VET. St.
Major-General SirJ. L. Pennefather, K.C.B ,to have the 25
local rank of Lieutenant-General in the Island of Malta. 8/2s
Colonel Edward Macarthnr' Unattached, to have the St.
local rank of Major-General in Australia. St.
Colonel James Robertson Crawfurd, of the Grenadier 50
Guards, to have the local rank of Brigadier-Generd in 25
Turkey. 100
Major and Brevet-Colonel A. G. Blachford, of the 24th 2P
Foot, having been promoted to the Brevet Rank of Lieut.- 50
Colonel on 7th June, 1849, for service in the field, and .t 0
having consequently completed six years' service in that
rank on 7th June, 1855, to be Colonel in the Army, in St.
conformity with the memorandum, dated Ist May, 1855, 50
his commission to bear date 7th June, 1855.
The undermentioned Cadets of the East India Company's 16
Service to have the local and temporary rank of Ensign 16
during the period of their being placed under the command 8
of Colonel Sandham, of the Royal Engiieers, at Chatham, 8
for field instructions in the art of sapping and mining : St.
Henry Cecil Moore, Gent., and Harvey Rhodes Faber, 25
Gent. og

Keepsake
lago

Vindex .

Garnelad —..

Gay ...
Elastic

Angelo

The undermentioned officers, having been selected for
service with the Turkish Contingent, to have a step of
local rank while so employed :
To have the local rank of Major—George Caldwell
Dickins, Esq., late Captain 46th Foot.
To have the local rank of Captain—Lieutenants Joseph
Hind, 26th Regiment Bengal Native Infantry; F. C. Han-
bury Williams, 16th Light Dragoons; Newton Charles
Chichester, 3d Light Dragoons.
To have the local rank of Assistant-Surgeon—William
Isaac Spencer, Gent.
To have the Local Rank of Acting Assistant-surgeon—
Harry Ernest Simpson, Gent. ; George Barnes Mowbray
Black,'Gent.

The undermentioned Officers to have a step of local rank
while employed with the Irregular Cavalry, under the
command of Major-General Beatson :
To have the Local Rank of Captain in Turkey—William
Gill V. 0. Bridgman, late Cornet, 10th Light Dragoons,
and now holding the local rank of Lieutenant in Turkey.
To have the Local Rank of Lieutenant in Turkey—W.
H. Ward, Gent.

The under-mentioned gentlemen to have the local rank
in Turkey of Veterinary Surgeons, while attached to the
Land Transport Corps of the Turkish Contingent :—Fre-
derick de Fair Bikes, Gent., and Charles Moir, Gent.
The under-mentioned gentlemen to have a step of local
rank in Turkey while attached to the Army serving under
his Excellency Omer Yacht% :
To have the local rank of Assistant-Inspector of Hospi
tals—Alexander Farquhar, i sq.
To have the local rank of Surgeon—Frederick Le Mesu-
rier, Esq., S. D. Bird, Esq., Thomas Buzzard, Esq., George
Robert Cubitt, Esq., Horatio Edsall, Esq., Charles Freda
rick Edward, Esq., John Bake Husband, Esq., Robert
Brudenell Carter, Esq., John Netten Radcliffe, Esq..
Richard Fordo Foote, Esq., Augustus Pont, Esq., Habeeb
Risk Allah Effendi, James Phillips, Esq., Henry Kiall-
mark, Esq.' John T. Jenkins, Esq.
The local rank of Lieu.-Colonel in Turkey, while ser-
ving in the Irregular Cavalry, under the command of _
Major-General Beatson, conferred on James St. John tO
Munro, late Major 31st Foot, and published in the Gazette 5
of 3 et August, 1855. has been cancelled. 20
COMMISSIONS SIGNED BY LORD LIEUTENANTS. 18
Repton and Gresley Troop of Yeomanry Cavalry—Col -
net John Hardcastle Mousley to be Lieutenant, vice Var.- 1.721
deleur, resigned. 20
Kirkcudbright Quota of the Galloway Rifles—Lewis 20
Audley Hay, Esq., to be Ensign. 20
".Ltie Queen has been pleased to approve of Sir David 20
Maxwell, of Ca.rdoness, Bart., being Honorary Colonel of 20
the Galloway Rifle Regiment of Militia. 100
Kent Militia Regiment of Artillery—Second Lieute-
nant Charles Nassau Girsdot to be Lieutenant, vice Spar- 100
ling, resigned ; Second Lieutenant Matthew Ellison to be 25
Lieutenant, vice Deacon, resigned. 25
Ross, Caithness, Sutherland, and Cromarty Regiment
of Rifle Militia—Alexander Murray Macgregor, Esq., to 100
be Lieutenant, vice James Fowler Mackenzie, Esq., re-
signed.
100
Royal Cumberland Regiment of Militia—Win. Kinsey 20
Dover, Esq., to be Ensign ; Wm. Gaitskill, Esq., to be 5
Ensign, vice Edwards, appointed to the 31st Regiment.
4th or Royal South Middlesex Regiment of Militia.— 5
George Philip Paukes, Gent., to be Ensign, vice Slade, 5
promoted. 5
Hampshire Regiment of Militia—Lieutenant Thomas 20
Buckner Henry Valintine to be Captain ; Ensign Seymour
Horace 'Morgan to be Lieutenant, vice Valintine, pro- 4
motel.
20
[The following is substituted for that which appeared in
th Gazette of the 14th inst.] 100
Hampshire Militia Artillery—Second Lieutenant James Harry Bartlett Raynolds to be First Lieutenant. 100

ANKTS.
George Parker, confectioner Southampton to surrender,
Oct. 5, at two, end Nov. 6, at one, at the Court of Bank-
ruptcy. Johnson, official assignee, Basinghall-street;
Paterson, Bouvezie-street.
William Ashton, builder, Loughborough-road, Brixton,
Oct. 4, at one, and Nov.l, at twelve, at the Court of
Bankruptcy. Johnson, official assignee, Basinghall-street ;
Hooker, Bartlett's-buithings, Holborn.
Moses Yea' slev, wine merchant South Bank, St. John's-
wood, Oct. 2, at half-past two, and Nov. 6, at one, at the
Court of Bankruptcy. Edwards, official assignee, Sam-
brook court ; Roberts, Clement's-lane.
Richard Thomas Fitchett, tailor, Hanover-street, Hano-
ver.square, Oct. 8, at eleven, and Nov. 8, at two, at the
Court of Bankruptcy. Lee, official assignee, Alderman-
bury; Ford and Lloyd, Bloomsbury-square.
Thomas Kingdon, cyder merchant, Netherexe, Devon.
shire, Oct. 4 at one, and Nov. 21 at eleven, at the Exeter
District Court. Hirtzel, official assignee, Exeter; Turner,
Exeter ; Stogdon, Exeter.
William Oulton, chemist, Liverpool, Oct. 5 and Nov. 8,
at eleven, at the Liverpool District Court. Bird, official
assignee, Liverpool; Evans and Son, Liverpool.
George Speight, confectioner, Goswell-street, Oct. 6 at,
two, and
Nov. 6 at eleven, at the Court of B sAruptcy.
Bell, official assignee, Coleman-street buildings ; Smith
and Son, Barnard-inn.
John Pattison, surgeon, Park-street, Grosvenor-square,
Oct. 5 at
eleven, and Nov. 6 at twelve, at the Court of
tcy Bell, official assignee, Coleman-street build-
in:Bankalif, • , • 1, .
I,nudrniTviamms
-lansn.Cuthbert Cockson, Italian
Thomas Allen ' Oct. 12N0v.2, attwelve,
Manchester, and
warehousemen,
s ; Wheeler,
Manchester is ,TIC 0 .
Wallington and Petty, Manchester.
' t C urt Hernaman, official
assignee,
Ailnebe.`CHP SEQUESTRATIONS.
SCOTCH
Laurencekirk; to meet Oct. 3,
at the Manche
John Gouk, innkeeper,
IC k
Laurence ir .
within M`Bain's Inn,
inmission agent, Glasgow, to meet
Duncan MlLltOfill,
iterl?. t
c°Hotel Glasgow.
Oct 3, within the Crow
COURSE OF EXCHANGE.--THIS DAY

Gibraltar
Leghorn .
Genoa
•
Naples • • •• ..•• .. 44
Palermo ...... 1324
Megsina ........ • •• 1324,
Lisbon .......... .• •• 531,i
Ouprto ...• • • • • •• •• •• •• 5.34
IBM Janeiro ...... ••
' Buenos Ayres.. ••••• • ••
New York,6o days sight
Philadelphia ..........-
PRICES OF B UL L IC N, PER OZ.
Foreign Gold in liars £3 17 9
Portugal Gold Coin .• 0 0 0

A msterdam - •- •• 11 lg
Ditto, three months .. 11 1914
Rotterdam 11 19i
Antwerp 25 5.5
Brussels .... 25 55
larnburgh ............ 13 8U
Altona ................
Paris 25 30
Ditto, three months .. 25 65
Mar5ei11e5........•••.• 25 65
ilourdeaux „
F, ankfort-on Maine •• .. 119}
Berlin .......
Vienna •• • • •• •... •• 11 34
Trie5te................ I ,6
Petersburg 351 A
lladrid

THE SUN, LONDON, T UESDAY EVENING, SEPTEMBER 25 1855

BAXIMAYII.

l,o~sllxv

Compan,

THE PROPoSED ROAD ACROSS ST.

Redford and
Blotchley „.
Buckghamsh.
Clydesdale.Ju.
Col. Stour 17y.
Sud. and Hal.
E. Lin. a pc
Alas. Barr. &
Neils. Direst
Do. New......
Glstrofs Dn. Fr
Hrtlpl. Dk. &
Railway
Hull & Selby
Do. Shares.
Do. Shares.
Lon.&Greenw
Do. Preferen
Lon.,Til.,&s.
Lowestoft gr.
4 per cent.
Do. 6 per ct.
Manch. Bztn.
and Matlock
Middles'.2ro' &

Clogkg Trice'
this 44.),

Redcar. ......
Midld.Bradfd
Newmarket
Bury Eaten.,,
N.& Rst.sp.e.
Do. 6 rer ct.
Do.Fixt 'cpq
Prest. & te

klustuess
this clay.

.TAMES' A RK.

Do. Shrs. A
Roystn. & Hit.
Shef. Roth and
Gooleg.s p.c.
Shrews. &Her.
S. Staffordsh.
Wear Valleygr
6 per cent
Do
rWiltiVomrst

_
The following letters on this subject have been ad-
dressed to the editor of the Times :
Sir,—l have read with some surprise a letter from Sir
B. Hall, dated Llanover, Sept. 18th, upon this subject,
and as I do not at all concur with the facts that the
right hon. gentleman has laid down in that letter, I will,
with your permission, point out the fallacies of a state-
ment apparently plausible, but actually only calculated
to mislead the public, to destroy the landscape garden-
ing of St. James's-park, and, under the shallow pretence
of doing the public a service, to inflict upon them a per-
manent injury.
Now, Sir, if a person be really desirous of forming a
correct judgment upon this proposed route, let him take
up a map of London, and, always bearing in mind that
the intention of this new proposed route is to construct
a public road for cabs and light traffic, not for omnibuses
and heavy traffic, let him compare the outlying districts
to be benefitted according to Sir B. Hall's plan, and
those which would be benefitted by a road through
Buckingham gate.
First, then, let me deal with the line proposed by Sir
B. Hall. The right hon. gentleman says that his pro-
posed road would benefit the populous district of Lam-
beth, and the populous district lying between the Vaux-
hall-bridge-road and the Thames. " The populous dis-
tzet of Lambeth " sounds well, and would be admirable
in practice, too, were it not that the Lambethians would
have to cross Westminster-bridge to come over the
water : and, when on this side of the water, it would be
jest as convenient for them to go up Whitehall, and
upon arriving at King Charles's statue to strike off east
and west, as it would be to take the proposed new road ;
and as regards the populous district lying between the
Vauxhall-bridge-road and the Thames, the other portion
of the population to be benefitted by the new road, why,
sir, they are not the class of people who make use of
cabs at all, and if they did not use their legs they would
adopt the cheaper form of omnibuses ; and this is not
to be an omnibus route at all.
Now, as regards Belgravia, Pimlico, and Chelsea dis-
tricts, which would be benefitted by a direct road, at a
fair distance from the Palace, from St. James's-street,
by Marlborough-hoese and through Buckingham gate—
which Sir B. Hall is pleased to call a comparatively
small portion of the population of the metropolis,—why,
even if they are so in actual numbers, is not the popula-
tion here of that portion of the public who make use of
cabs, and are they not constantly obliged, from notions
of duty, of interest, and of pleasure to connect St.
James's with Belgravia, Pimlico, and Chelsea, under the
present ciicumstances at the greatest possible inconve-
nience to themselves, and really upon no just grounds
why such inconvenience should exist at all
I say, therefore, that Sir B. Hall's treating Belgravia,
Pimlico, and Chelsea as a comparatively small portion
of the public interested, and putting forward this in-
genious plan of route as beneficial to the populous dis-
tricts of Lambeth and the district between Vauxhall-
bridge-road and the Thames, is a mere sham and blind ;
and, upon the specious plea of consulting the interests
of the public,. he is actually sacrificing those very inte-
rests at the foot of another and far different shrine.
Sept. 22. A_

Sir,--I have been over the ground to-day where the
proposed new highway through t'ie heart of St. James's.
park will terminate. It is that half-cleared rookery
which the Westminster Improvement Commissioners
have rendered famous ; where building has been slowly
going on for some years, and not half the cleared ground
is occupied, and but one of the shops that have long
been built has found a tenant.
I am curious to know if the scheme for cutting up the
Park originated with those Westminster Improvement
Commissioners, or with some one who bas been largely
building in the "fields." Are the gardens of the people
about to be sacrificed for the good of a clique ? In this
age of jobs people become suspicious, and there is really
a suspicious odour here.

I am, sir, your obedient servant,

INQUIRER.

Sir,—l have read the correspondence between Sir
Benjamin Hall and J. V. Shelley in the Times of to-day
with pain and regret, for it not only confirms the report
which I and many others had previously thought exag-
aerated or unfounded, of the contemplated cutting St.
James's-park in half by running a great public highway
through the centre of it, but it further shows that Go.
vernment are utterly destitute of a reasonable pretext for
the destruction of one of the " lungs of London" which
this prject, implies. The only pleas which the First
Commissioner of Works advances are—first, that a road
from Pall-mall through the Green Park to the present
road in front of the palace would cut up the Green Park.
Now, it must occur to every one as a very strange thing
that Sir Benjamin Hall should exhibit so much affection
for the Green Park, which is but little used in compari-
son, whi e he plunges headlong into a work of destruc-
ti in where the comforts and pleasures of the whole work-
ing population of London are concerned. He will not
sacrifice a bit of the Green Park, but he will coolly de-
stroy all the beauty and convenience of St. James's
Park-gardens.

And f.r what ? The inhabitants of that large and in-
creasing district called Pimlico or Belgravia have peti-
tioned for a right of way for coaches and cabs from Pall-
mall. Therefore, the First Commissioner of Works will
give a road to Lambeth ! The hon. gentleman, appealed
to by the householders of Pimlico, will oblige them with
an easy way to Westminster ; and he appears to think
that a few dozens of chairs, and a band of music in Ken-
sington Gardens on Sundays, will reconcile the 2,000,000
of inhabitants of this densely crowded London, to the
sacrifice of their beautiful resort, St. James's-park.
I regard these things, sir, not only with pain, but also
some uneasiness. St. James's-park is not a place to be
sacrificed at the pleasure of any crotchetty individuals,
and the recent demonstration on the Sunday Bill should,
of itself, be an exampto sufficient to deter our authori-
ties from undertaking the contemplated scheme. The
mere deferring of it until Parliament reassembles but
defers the exasperation which so ill-judged a measure is
calculated to give rise to.
The House of Commons, unfortunately, is agreeable
to anything the Government proposes. My apprehen-
sions have reference to probabilities beyond a vote of
the House of Commons. It was the Queen of George 11.,
I believe, who proposed to the Premier of that day the
c'osing of this very Park ; and, although not 50 people,
perhaps, entered its gates in four-and-twenty hours, the
Minister made such a reply to her Maje-ty as occasioned
the abandonment of the project. I regret to find there
is none of the spirit of that Minister in Sir Benjamin
Hall.
I abstain from touching upon the odium which may be
expected to fall elsewhere. My object is only to plead
for the preservation of the gardens of St. James's-park.
The "whole borough of Lambeth," which the First.Cotn-
rnissioni r of Works proposes to accommodate, will have
one of the finest roads in the kingdom when the new
Westminster-bridge is completed. There is no road to
Pimlico. But roads are a secondary question. I plead
for the preservation of the St. James's-park-gardens.
The public have approved the immense votes of money
for the improvement of the palace for the convenience of
Royalty, including, indeed, the absorption of a large
piece of the public highway ; and, as was remarked in a
recent number of your paper, it is surely not too much
to ask fora little reciprocity of sentiment. It will be a
cruel thing to cut a public highway through the centre
of St. James's-park.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE.

SERIOUS COLLISIONS BETWEEN THE FOREIGN
LEJION AND THE ROYAL MARINES.

Some serious collisions have occurred at Gosport be-
tween the men forming the German Legion and Royal
Marines. The Legionaries arrived at Spithead a few
weeks since, in the William M. Rogers, from Halifax,
North America, being about 550 in number, and col-
lected from all, parts of the United States and Canada.
They comprised Germans, English, Scotch, Irish,French,
&o. They were quartered at Hasler, near Gosport, as
some symptoms of diarrhoea had appeared on board ship
among them, instead of being sent out at once to Shorn-
cliffe. It appears that on Friday night a party of the
Legion, all Germans, were drinking in a beerhouse in
South-street, Gosport, and that a number of men of the
Royal Marines were also there, and that some quarrel
ensued amongst them. To which party the blame of the
quarrel is to be attached it is impossible to say. From the
beerhouse the two parties sallied into the street, where a
regular fight took place. Fortunately, none of the combat-
ants bad bayonets or other deadly weapons ; still theydid
considerable execution on each other, the Marines with
their belts, and the Legionaries with sticks or anything
else that came in their way. After a struggle of gr, at
violence the latter had to retreat to their barracks. The
police force of the town, five men of the Hants consta-
bulary under Sergeant Howard, could do little or nothing
towards quelling the disturbance. It was feared that on
Saturday night the fight would be renewed, and we be-
lieve that Sergt. Howard requested that the Legionaries
should be confined at night within barracks ; this unfor-
tunately was not done. In the course of the evening
some 50 or 60 of the Marines assembled in South-street,
when they were attacked by a similar force of Germans.
Some of the latter had armed themselves with wooden
rails, torn up by them from Government fences, but others
we are sorry to add armed themselves with knives. The
Marines had their belts again. The collision did not
last long, but it was furious, and many broken heads were
the result. Worse than this, two Marines were stabbed.
One of them had nothing to do with the affray, but
happened to be coming out of a shop as the Legionaries
were rushing by, when one of them aimed a blow at his
head, the point of the knife entering beycnd the top of
the forehead, and opening it with a most ghwtly cut
almost to the eyebrow. Blood, of course, flowed pro-
fusely, and the man fell for dead. He was carried to
Ha4ar Hospital, where he remains ; but it is thought
impossible for him to survive. The other marine was
stabbed in the body by the sharp end of a wooden nail,
or spike, but not so severely. Several of the Legion are
laid up with serious bruises and cuts.
It is feared, however, that one of these latter has met
with an untimely end. Two of the Legion are missing
from the barracks ; and a marine is now in custody
under the following circumstances. After the defeat of
the Germans on Friday night, some of them, to escape
from the fury of the marines, took refuge in the first
house they could, concealing themselves in waterclosets,
&c. On the same night, on going to bed in barracks,
the marine in custody said to another, " Well, I did for
one of the , I found him in a privy, and I
shoved him down and smothered him," This being re-
ported, the Marine has been taken into custody, and a
search was instituted yesterday of all the water-closets of
the neighbourhood. The ill-feeling is entirely confined
to the Germans and Marines ; the French, English,
)Irish, and Scotchmen in the Legion 'Urt, bn the best
terms with the Marines, so much so that it is feared dis-
turbances will arise in barracks between the Germans