The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-16 00:00:00

Where they must encounter the competition of their con- statesman who was talking to me yesterday upon the sub- marked on the words of the hon. and gallant member in
temporaries, and those whom indolence of temperament or ject took this objection, and illustrated it by an aneedotee the letter /with such truth," with a query after it, "by
physical infirmities unfit for active exertions, are placed in He said that the Finance Minister of France after the Re- the hon. member for Aylesbury." The hon. member now
the civil service, where they may obtain an honourable liveli- volution, received so enormous a number of applications charged him with being guilty of that of which he was
_• hood with little labour and no risk, where their success de- for places that he did not know what to do; every man in
, himself accused. (Hear, hear.)
,
Ponds upon their simply avoiding any flagrant misconduct, France thought he was entitled to a post under a free Go- Colonel FREESTUN again rose but was induced to re-
and attending with moderate regularity to routine duties, and vernment. (A laugh.) In one day he received no less than sumo his seat by loud cries of " Order !"
• in which they are secured against the ordinary consequences 700 applications, and he then wrote to all the candidates Sir S NORTHCOTE admitted the inefficiency of the
of old age or failing health, by an arrangement which provides desiring them to attend at his house on the same day and civil service, but pointed out the difficulties in the way of
them with the means of supporting themselves atter they have the same hour. When the time arrived the ante-chamber, a reform, partly from the short period which heads of de-
become incapacitated." the staircase, and the hall were of course filled, The Minis- partments were allowed to remain in office, and partly
ter presented himself and said, " Gentlemen, what have - from the outcry which would be made, even in the house
Then I have the opinion of Mr. Anderson, which I willnot I
you come here for? suppose for places? Their silence itself, if one man were raised over the heads of his seniors,
trouble the house with, as it is to the same effect as that
argued assent. " Well," said he, " I have only one place at or if a man were dismissed for what his chief considered
which I have just read, but he states that when it was
my disposal; that is my own. If you would like to have it, incapacity. The great evil in the civil service wits this-
, found necessary by a commissioner at the head of a large
l for it." (Laughter.) But I believe nothing of that that there
department to introduce improvements in the mode of ?no promotion by merit to the higher ap-
gelywill happen in England if you upset-the system which pointmentsw,aaen.. the consequence was that there was no
keeping the accounts, he could not find one among his
makes the dietrbution of pieces a political favour. Every energy or ability among the clerks. He then proceeded
large establishment of clerks who was sufficiently convey- ma .' '
member of this house would be rejoiced to be relievedfrom. to describe the system of reform recommended by himself
scut with the scientific principles of accounts to carry out
the duty, for it has become almost a eiutea of making ap- and Sir Charles Trevelyan, which, he said, was very in-
his plans of improvement. Mr. Chadwick, in his evidence, plications, for places for his constituents.' There is no harm correctly described as a system of competitio 1-it was
said :- in those applications to a certain extent. The course I pur- that, but it was still more a system of equal division of
" A secretary, complaining of the disadvantages of his sue with regard to my own constituents is this-when a labour among the clerks and promotion by merit. Wit
service, related in illustration that out of three clerks sent
man asks me for a place, I say, if I know him,, that I will regard to competition, he stated that Sir C. Trevelyan and
him fiom the usual sources there was only one of whom any certify that he is a respectable and competent person. If a himself were at first disposed to recommend the system
use whatsoever could be made, and that, of the other two, person, known to be a respectable and competent man, ap- recently adopted by the Government, of having a board of
one came to take his place at the office leading a bulldog in a plies for a small post in the town, it is no favour to get the t examiners to test the merits of nominees, but they were
string. (Laughter.) I have been assured that, under
post centered on him. But the present system cannot be soon satisfied that such a board would not be able to resist
another commission, out of 80 clerks supplied by the patron-
destroyed while your constituents have a right to ask you urgent applications from influential persons, and thatthey
age secretary, there were not more than 12 who were worth
to forward their claims. A man ought to have other means would only serve to cover bad appointmentS. He coutni-
, their salt for the performance of service requiring only a
of obtaininga postthan an application to his representative. verted the arguments of Mr. Romilly, who con tended
sound common education." It is said to be almost necessary to the existence of a Go- that a competing examination would drive gentlemen out
A retired officer writes to Mr. Chadwick :- vernment that they should have pTh.ces at their disposal, of the civil service. He could not conceive a greater libel
"Many instances could be given of young men, the sons of and Mr.Romilly has stated that members of Parliament are ,on the aristocracy than this, and for himself he utterly
respectable parents, who were found unable to read or write, not to be kept in good humour without places. The first I disbelieved it. He next complained of the inadequate
and utterly ignorant of accounts. Two brothers, one almost thing, then, that we ought to do is to pledge ourselves not salaries given to the clerks, and the unfair division
imbecile, the other much below the average of intellect, long to ask for places. If it is disagreeable to us to forward ttp- of labour. If this were put upon a better footing he was
retained appointments, though never equal to higher work plicatione. and to the Government to receive them, let no satisfied feWer .clerks would do the work, withs better
. than the lowest description of copying. Another young man more applications be made through us. But human nature salary for each, and a great reduction of the national ex-
"svas found unable, on entering, to number the pages of a will always be human nature, and unless a roan has other penditure would be the result.
volume of official papers beyond 10." means than those now afforded him of obtaining admission Mr. 1.,. GOWER was most anxious to promote merit in
the public service, and he gave every credit to the mem-
public service, the same influence will be employed,
hers of the Administrative Reform Association for seeking
(Laughter.) These extracts show that all these gentlemen to the
.andthe present stete of things will continue to exist. There
that object, but what he complained of was that they did
Agree, in fact, that these evils exist, though there is
wnobtiepbubrsiusebirtetibnear pErascrtliGcarleewvaiyil.e,
bHeeddfeeufeenwdeedd
itnhbeiscopuurbse.
is one more question upon which I wish to say a few wee,.
Among them some difference of opinion as to the mode in
A small, pamphlet has lately been published on the reorea-
"which they are to be remedied. I suppose that the order
lie life, and reminded Mr. Layard that on the only occa-
iiisation of the civil service, written by a gentleman con-
in Council which has been lately issued may be attributed
sion when his brother had an appointment thtoeobnisgrte.onwLt-lseyintftharandt
netted with that service. Let the house hear, then, what
to this report, and to the little notice we are beginning
himself. He
Under
HFoerewigasn
bSeeucnr(eitatrye
e-ddhetbgaatvetbiet
these gentlemen have to say for themselves, for, although
to take of the civil service in this house. But this order
the pamphlet is anonymous,. it is deserving of consideration.
In Council gives no remedy for the evils I have alluded to •;
Justifiedbee. gen
gentleman
appointment;
f w which-probably
ptrheebraebwl
ya
from
eomn e
theirwea k nsebsesritne the
it merely declares that there shall be an examination ; It shows that the evidence which I have read prove-
,that when a man is sent up there shall be a test as to his that the system in your public offices is as antagonistic as
possible to the discharge of the duties of those offices ;
being possessed of a reasonable capacity; but there is nosection-his brother found no trace-that was an excess
system of competitive examination proposed. I will read that men are placed. in public offices whose claims rest
upon political considerations ; and that your offices are of meekness and modesty. He pointed out that, long be-
tefore this movement was heard of, Lord Aberdeen's Govern-
You what Mr. Romilly says on the iubject of an exami-overcherged with incompetent people. The money voted
. nation, which I think will prove how useless a mere exami- ment proposed to give up their patronage for a system of
for the public service is larger than the public like, and we
nation is without competition. Mr. Romilly says :- competition, and they found no support in Parliament.
therefore have motions for the reduction of these sums.
„" I have been 12 years the member of a board, and during But the house does not usually cut down the salaries of the He Objected to the resolution on account of the despondent
that period not one candidate has ever been rejected ; and high officers, but those of the hardworking and useful tone in which it spoke of the country-which, he believed,
only one, who was wholly incapable, was with difficulty in- bad no foundation ; and because it suggested no remedy
men, the tendency of which is to fill the offices with use-for the evils it complained of.
Mr. PEACOCKE traced all our national disasters, from
danced to resign, after a still greater difficulty on the part of less and inefficient men. There is not one honest man,
the board to say that they would reject him if he did not. . . whether he is in favour of reduction or not, who will not
have been 12 years in a Government office, and during that say that a man who has a fair amount of duty to perform the reign of George 11, downwards,' to the reign of the
• period no instance has occurred of any one being found un- ought to receive a fair amount of pay. (Cheers.) If you Revolution families.
,deserving of promotion." reduce your offices to the number of men who are comps - Mr. GLADSTONE here rose and said, that on the pre-
, ••' have great doubts as to Mr. Romilly's fitness for the tent to the duty, yon may fairly increase the pay of those sent occasion he found himself in the difficulty he had re
cently experienced more than once, that while they had an
of examiner, though Ido not generally object to him who fairly earn it. (Hear, hear.) The first thing is not to
Yet I think I am justified in my doubts on this point b
th • y cut down the pay of public offices, but to reduce the nom- original .
motion and an amendment, he was not in the con-
e evidence which he has given. He says :- ber of mon to that which is required for the public service.
"I am well aware that that which constitutes true gentle- Upon another point I agree with this gentleman, when he
dition of assenting by his vote to either one or the other.
man-like feeling is found in every rank of life; but it is less speaks of the superannuation fund. It is all very well to The reason why he thought the adoption of neither desir-
. rtarnon in the lower ranks than in t"e higher, and a selec- say that by means of this fund members of the civil ser- able was, that if the House of Commons adopted motions
on so important a subject, they should be clothed in lan-
lea, therefore, from a selected class would seem to me pre-
ferabi to vice have a certainty to retire upon ; but how is that cer-
--"'e an choice, however extensive, founded upon corn- tainty acquired? By cutting down the pay, It is clear it
Petition. Admitting all the evils of patronage, and all the ought to be left to an actuary to estimate what a man gunge of an unambiguous character, and calculated t pro-
:4lvantage of sweeping it away, as far as the Legislature is ought to receive after the payment of a certain amount, mote the Public welfare. His hon. friend the member for
tsiedieerned, Ido not think that the civil service should bemade and after a 'certain number of years' service. There is an- Aylesbury commenced his motion by stating that the house
: unless
instrument of the political regeneration of the country, other question treated of in the pamphlet :- viewed with deep and increasing concern the state of the
nation. Whatever might be the intention of the hon.
Luess it be good for the service itself. Parliament ought to " The other question, that of leaving the service, is much
to gentleman, he was bound to confess that he did not agree
to b. e able to curd its own diseases, without having recourse more important. The secret history of, the superannuation
the civil service for the purpose." scheme is difficult to get at, but it is indiiputablesthat the
Government has been levying a tax upon all official incomes in the language that he proposed to put into the mouth of
I think this ver extraordinary, but beyond I find a pas-
:. fig® in his evidence which explains it. For he states that for the purpose of granting superannuation allowances, the House of Commons. He was not prepared to say that
the house viewed with great or increasing concern the state
which tax, in its accumulation, exceeds its liabilities by
lose
effect of competition will be that the aristocracy will
of the nation. On the contrary, it appeared to hint that
ish the lion's share of the civil service; but I will lead many hundreds of thousands of' pounds, and which allow-
" Romilly's own words. He says :- mice is always granted grudgingly-seldom until the
a recipient be quite worn out, and generally with some in the midst of enormous difficulties, and in the face of
Notwithstanding its ability, the report of Sir C. Trevel-
mysterious reductions and uncertainties as to its amount. imflammatory language, the people of England had shown
3'an, together with
have
ostnve not convinced me. It still seems to me that the result It is difficult to coneeive what the Government has to do
by °Pen competition will be a democratical civil service side with it all, except to give up those accumulations, which,
present year, worthy of their name and character. Then
his hon. friend went on to say, in his motion, thet the
ht 7 side with an aristocratical Legislature." whoever may have a right to them, certainly do not monl. ly
belong to the present possessors. In the ordivary course of
isefore I read this report I thought we had got rid of this things, if a man does not choose to store up for a rainy day, manner in which merit and efficiency had been sacrificed,
Mbar delusion ; but according to this gentleman we are there is no act of Parliament compelling him to be pro- in public appointments, to party and family influences, and
:till living under an aristocratical Legislature. He con- vident ; and if his salary as a civil servant be not sufficient to to a blind adherence to routine, had given rise to great nais-
"ones thus :- fortunes, and threatened to bring discredit upon the ne-
enable him to lay by for his old age, that may he an argu-
'Lionel character, and to involve the country in grave diem-
` " Open competition must necessarily be in favour of the ment for increasing his emoluments, but not for levying a tax
more numerous class. The natural abilities of that more of 5 per cent. upon what he now receives, where 2S would do; tors. He was not quite sure that he correctly understood
numerous class—. e., of the lower or less rich class-are not nor, indeed, of meddling with the disposal of his private the terms family influences, but he must interpret the t
, . , s
inferior to those of the higher or richer class. Inducements means at all." tion of the hon. member for Aylesbury, not by his speech
to to-night, but by other speeches addressed to other audi-
, cultivate tiro's° abilities for a special and important ob- He describes in a graphic way how the unfortunate man ences, and in reference to the known sentiments of the as-
a Ject, attainable by such means, will not be wanting. The tries to get this retiring allowance :-
ea-
'-aparatively moderate prizes of t "He has to shift and
he civil service rise insociation of which he was understood to be the principal
dodge on, broken-spirited, nervous, organ. He (Ar. Gladstone) (lid not go beyond the fact in
value as you descend in the scale of society. 2001. or 3001. a
and dyspeptic. 'Fly night he runs the gauntlet of ' Parr's
year is amuch larger fortune to the son of a tradesman
Life,' 'Norton's Camomile,' Cockle's Antibilious,' and other stating that he observed in the proceedings of that associa-
tion a tendency to fasten on the aristocracy, as a peculiar
• Or farmer than it is to the son of a nobleman or squire ;
miraculous menelicaments ; by day he is more occupied with
class, some peculiar responsibility for the defects and
andtherefore,
I, believe that the great majority of the ap-
his diet than his duty; his office gets disorganised, his juniors weakness of the public service. He was not prepared to
geintmentswill fall to the lot of those who are in the lower lose their temper, feel the injustice of working with a man
join in a feeling of that kind. If the House of Commons
necial position. (Laughter.) The more the civil service is re-
who ought tto stay, and yet who may not go, and become was more aristocratic in sentiment and in feeling than it
• tljeit.d from the lower classes, the less it will be sought after
mutinous, whilene he either dies in harness full ten years before ought to be, that was not owing to any privilege possessed
° 47 the higher until at last the aristocracy will be altogether
his time, or condescends to unworthy tricks and imaginative by the aristocracy or to any particular law or regulation ;
dissociated from the permanent civil service of the country."
certificates, until he wrings a shorn and mutilated allowance but it was owing to the strong feeling in favour of the ads-
,lf this means anything it seems this-that if you give the from half incredulous 'my lords.''
' tocracy which pervaded all ranks and classes of the com-
appointments to that class who possess the greatest amount The pamphlet is full of cases like this, and is clearly an ex- munity ; but, besides, it was still more owing to the fact
°I talentand who Lave the greatest object in working for
the ,
.ponent of the feelings of the men themselves,' who would that the aristocracy was recruited from the best of the
so public service, you must introduce competitive beexami-
affected by the changes proposed. I have read the evi- people, and its history was written in the most glorious
ration-(Lear)-the effect of which will be to exclude the
dense of Mr. Anderson, who shows that our public offices pages of the country, ascribing to it everything that made
aristocracy. I am happy to say that Mr. Mill, a reaS
gentle-
h
' 'sari of great experience, a profound philosopher as well as are overcharged with servants, and I will hnepotism
another pas- them rejoice in the name of England. The evil of nep
sage from his evidence. Mr. Anderson says :-
t Political economist, has upset the absurdities of Mr. I did not affect the aristocratic elegem more than a.nyother rank.
`'',unfitly. Mr. Mill
,says :- " Every person who has had experience in conducting a These circumstances operated with him as an objection to
"If the sons of gentlemen cannot be expected to have as large office will admit that if all were really efficient not only the motion in the abstract. He was not willing to join in
Leh ability and instruction as the sons of low people it would the business be better and more expeditiously done, a vote which could have no other effect than deluding the
,
;add, make a strong case for social changes of a more but it would be probably executed by two-thirds of the num- country, nor was he prepared to point out the class of the
slelasive character. (Hear, hear.) If the sons of gentle- ber of clerks now employed."
s aristocracy as being chargeable with peculiar responsibility
te3twould not, even under the stimulus of competition, main- (Cheers.) I will not trouble the house with further re- for defects in the public service. The hon. member for
say ttreniselves on an equality of intellect and attainments marks on the civil service, but I might say something on Aylesbury, with great fairness, said that he considered the
the manner in which the Governments of this country are system acted on by successive Governments was prejudicial
they niths of a lower rank, how much below the mark must
511 nabsi with their present monopoly, and to how much greater meat I :used . This subject comes within the scope of my argu- to the satisfactory manegerneet of public affairs. Now he
e'en that than the friends of the measure allege must the effi- , for I have the admission of a noble lord in the other (Mr. Gladstone) would not enter into the inquiry whether
iseos„eY of the public service be at present sacrificed to their hpuse (Lord Granville), who said that, although ho had it Was so or not. But if it were so, then he ventured to
hitOPetency 7 And, more ; if, with advantages and opportu- many connexions in the present Administration, yet he had state that the party or power responsible for that evil was
ii,,,8 so vastly superior, the youth of the higher classes have three cousins in the Administration of the Earl of Derby. the House of Commons. If one thing more than another
' to lionour enough, or energy enough, or public spirit enough, This, then, is no party question, and, if this is admitted, was in the control of the house, it was who should and
the question is placed upon the basis that I wish. Govern- who should not be Ministers of the Crown, and if, it were
,usake themselves as well qualified as others for the station
- Which they desire to maintain, they are not fit for that sta- ment, then, in this country, is more or lets an affair of true that Cabinets were formed from the restricted circle
tieen, and cannot too soon step out of it, and give place to family relationship and connexion. Ido say that this is of families of the aristocratic class without availing our-
tter people. (Cheers.) I have not this unfavourable opinion one of 'the most grievous causes of public complaint, and selves of the immense materials that the nation offered, it
' ter thein. I believe that they will fairly earn their full share of that it is working more than any other upon the country was the House of Commons that ought to be held mainly
every kind of distinction when they are no longer able to ob- at large. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, I will go to third pro- if mot
e hnti Hoy
responsf
Comm ible
nos to r the evil, an
Pharisaically f
s_
I complain has given rise to great misfortunes, and such a state of things in the face of the country, in the
(Cheers. I most entirely agree with those opinions. Let threatens to bring diedredit upon the nation, and involve form of the hon. member's motion, but it became them to
.t..,7.public service be open to all classes. (Hear, hear.) the country in grave disasters. No one now will question proceed with an address to the foot of the throne, repre-
,ithitila regard to the examinations, I have a return, which the fact that our public establishments are not what they senting to her Majesty, that they must withhold their
{till somewhat amuse the house, of the system of examine- should be, and no one will fquestion the fact that very confidence from those to whom she had entrusted her exe-
uas adopted, under the order in Council, in each depart- great changes are necessary. doubt, indeed, whether cutive councils, until they adopted measures more in ea-
kl
"nt, part of which I will read. In the Treasury- any reasonable man will question the truth of the asser- cordance with the public interest. (Hear, hear.) He
S sail', The candidates are examined in the common rules of time, that the misfortunes that have happened are owing objected in the most unqualified terms to the practice
tiotemetic, such as the rule f three, vulgar and decimal frac- to this titate of thines. I have found a curious speech, adopted on some recent occasions of embodying resolutions
abuse interest, and discount and they are required to make which I have extracteefrora the newspapers. The house of the House of Commons in general, abstract. and am-
. abstract of some official documents, to test their intern- will remember that the noble lord at the head of the go_ bigtione language. It was of importance that the people
ruse,orr and to show that they are able to write and compose vernment said there were no complaints made of the de- should look on these resolutions with respect and reverence;
ecti- ~ partments which were filled by members of the aristocracy, but if that respect and reverence were to be expected, the
00, Y*
jmonth is allowed for preparation on this examination. but that where complaints were made they were directe i resolutions should partake of a strictly practical character,
In the Customs, at departments like the medical department and the corn- (Hear.) The amendment of the hon. baronet, the member
tel,4 ,
Persons nominated to clerkships, upon presenting them- missariat, which were not filled by members of the aria- for Hertfordshire, began by recommending some practical
to es to take up their appointments, are at once required tocracy. That was not a wise speech, certainly, and the measere. He recommended to the earliest attention of
ofrwrite from dictation in the presence of a properly-qualified senior surgeon of the hospital at Smyrna, in a speech her Majesty's Ministers the necessity of a careful revision
ariieeet or clerk, and are examined in the principal rules of printed in the public papers, appears to hive called his of our various official establishments. (Hear, hear.)
tiol7etic, and the first four rules of decimal and vulgar frac- brother doctors about him and made the following Well, if they were to enter a boat of that kind, it was a
singular course, and not very convenient to adopt that
1,, speech :- ,
moue e.._ • "It may be very well for Lord Palmerston to get up in language, and to make that recommendation, without any
. asowstididates are here "placed on probation" for three
the House of Commons and say that the departments officered notice of the fact that, for the last four or five years, there
, ns• In the Excise (Inland Revenue) office-
by the aristocracy have not failed in the recent trial, but that had been no progress, and recently there was completed a
•tear:is person is fully admitted as a clerk until he has been the medical department and commissariat have failed because searching and formal investigation of the public establish.
etteithius,,ed and his proficiency has been ascertained in reading, their officers are taken from the middle classes. We can re- menus. Two blue books of respectable dimensions, -
'titre t, vulgar frictions, decimals, bookkeeping by double tort, and prove the truth of what we say, that, had we been taming the results of that investigation and revision,' weree
sed''es writing from dictation, correspondence, geography, left to ourselves, unchecked by the incapacity of those who presented to Parliament. He should like to know, if that
In
thisi_e_history of the British empire." have risen rather by family influence than bymerit, it would department of statistics were open to him, how many
thi; " Post-office the examination is very vague-penman- not have been under the pressure ofsa great war Prat reforms members had found time to make themselves masters of
are, orthography,
,long
, and arithmetic. In the Admiralty there -long since effected in our civil hospitals 'shim imitated their contents. The careful revision which the hon. ha_
' talilliart's for the different subjects in which examination in some degree by our allies-would have been carried out ronet, the member for Hertfordshire, recommended to her
5,.,' Place,i including writing from dictation, precis writ- by our military medical brethren." •- Ifajeetv'e Ministers, was with a view to simplify and faci_
,• "re4hinetic, English history, geography, Latin, and Sir, I admire the courage of a public servant tiebo can get Mate the transaction of public business, and by judicious
tet isoh the total number being 300. Any one who can up and say this publicly and allow it to be circulated. tests of merit, as well as by removing obstructions to its
"lifer IS qualified, and, therefore, if a person can obtain (Cheers.) But lam told that a better state of things is fair promotion and legitimate rewards, to secure to the
sacs writing from dictation, and 50 for precis writiug, he approaching. that there have beensuccesses, and that there service of the State the largest availe ble proportion of the
,n 1,1•470 Sith other tests. (Hear hear.) There is no exa- is no reason to fear any great disasters. No one is more energy and intelligence for which the people of this countev
110:atiryo fnoart the India Board, but appointments are proba- willing than lam to acknowledge the importance of the were distinguished. He hopeS he should not be t'uought
one year. There are also no examinations at successes we have recently obtained. But are those sue- hypercritical if he stated that the allusion to the energy
_The 811 e-office, the Foreign-office, and the Colonial-office. ceases so extraordinary that we are to be surprised at them? and intelligence of the people of England would find a
ofhee objects of examination in the Paymaster. General's I have always believed that successes would be the inovi- more suitable place in the eloquent speeches of the hon.
are.
t table result if the two services, the army and the navy, baronet, than in the vote which he proposed to put into
gars Practice, rule of three_direct, inverse and double ; vul- had fair play, and if we sent the right man to fill the right the mouth of the House of Commons. 'His objection to
s_echas' decimal fractions ; interest Purchase of stock, and Place. But do the successes we have recently obtained the hon. baronet's amendment was its vegrieness and un-
7ae eV writing from dictation ; a precis or abstract of warrant us in concluding that, we are at the end of this meaning character. What were the 'judicious tests they
40
ex c!al. documents." war ? It is too much the habit of this country to express should apply ? Was he prepared to propose a distinct and
And
one time a despondency which is not justified bye vents, specific plan hey all concurred that the foundation of
43% "lunation takesT place in the Office of Works, or the
sour :0f Woods and at other times a state of exhilaration whh is not some system fonthe promotion of the public service was
et
eeteaes hand • . . he examination in. the Audit-office
more justified by any successes that -w P, have obtained. absolutely necessary. But to go further, and make a high-
sit writing, English composition, and the rules
'kli,. hmetic u The latter is the case at present. We have had some sue- sounding declaration to that effect, before they had a defi-
, inate_ , pto Decimal Fractions. The subjects of
ceases, but does that warrant the belief that the war will nite idea of its meaning-before they were prepared to
.1 , in in the Itegistrar-GeneraPs-office are -
4 iSY e • thereby be brought to a speedy and honourable concha. give effect to any substantial Oen, was not only an act of
cuegasfireolismudc,ation ; 2, arithmetic ; 3, geography ;
&11
al sttoi
is
thing
sion ? Sir, I very much doubt it. - 1 warn the Govern- folly, but as between the members of that house and their
ment that although it may be all verywell to divert atten- constituents, an act of dishonesty. They had no right to
Ol,4deanc meant by " occasionally" Ido not know. In the tion from the question at'issue by means of these successes, make professions in the face of the country, until the
stioia, e-office there are no less than 13 heads of exami- yet that their influence will not last long enottgh to remove were prepared to reduce them to practice. The amendy-
, ~" 1 !3,01110 of which are very amusing-, that distrust which more and more prevails, and which ment intended to be proposed by his hon. friend the mem-
Zdh Are " candidate is expected to be able to read aloud will prevail. I warn the Government not to depend upon ber for Cork was not open to the criticism which he (Mr.
-OrectiOsPer emphasis and discretion-(a laugh); 2, to write these successes to remove the prevalent distrust, but upon Gladstone) had applied to the original motion, and. to
'iooti res from dictation ;3,t0 be conversant with the cons- the reform of our public establishments. Reform them, the amendment of the hon. baronet the member for Ffert-
,t.ts ;
,i' of arithmetic, including Vulgar and Decimal Frac- and we shall have some chance -of real success. The late fordshire. That amendment was founded on principle. It
enty if _ to be acquainted with bookkeeping by double Duke of Wellington came to the command of the army in prayed her Majestyto modify the Order in Council. recently
;,qaintecittl.)tointed to an office of accounts ; 5, to be act the Peninsular under a state of things not very different instituted, for the examination of candidatesfor the public
`,seghter sad cheers)
;6, to be able to write a letter from that which prevails at present. When he was sent to service. It was, in no respect, necessary to modify the
make as
_, cheers) [Lord Paraucasaox-' Go on"], and to Spain he had a commissariat to form and an army to organ- Order in Council
.to give effect to that motion, for while
re a Sa. abstract of correspondence. (Hear, hear.) 7, To ise, but, by his abilities, talents, and energies, he did what the order did nothing to interfere with the right of nonii-
' twtttieh „Taitten or viva voce opinion on an ordinary subject was required. He not only reorganised his army, but he fed nation, it left it open to the members of the Government,
1 "int io3tre,n,e Proposed to him for the purpose of testing his the inhabitants of Portugal ;he opened a communication in whose hands the patronage was vested, to institute a
will "Igettee.” with America, And obtained supplies from the remotest particular system of examination. With respect to the
eta . not 14'inat.trouble the house with the other tests, but. this parts of the world. Had we such a man now we should subject of administrative reform, he viewed the movement
as it is, we ought not to with no regret, but with interest. It was not until he
thelon seems to me, upon the whole, a very fair one. obtain the same successes. But,
'we
,ss War-office- flatter ourselves that we are at theend of the war. I did not heard the speech of the hon. member for Aylesbury that
lofte„s'tglei greatest importance will be attache to superiority expect that we should obtain peace on the terms proposed, he confessed he was able to form a judgment whether the
a "'lye," gransmar, English composition, ad writine cor- because we had not obtained the necessary successes. But promoters had marked out for themselves a clear view of
S'aeti al at dictati •ssi • • b • imp se further successes area cquired-suppose &baster- the remedies they meant to employ. The question of ad-
ter cal ac , on, an in ant metic to the extent of a se, Pose °
1),
slagett aad pulsar
nce with. the Rule of. Three, Practice, In- poi taken-shall we be essentially in a bettir position for ministrative reform -it was a su.bject which he always re-
peace ? On the contrary, I fear our disfficul- joined at when he found the public mind turned towards it
a. and Decimal Fractions; a candidate will
may
witsehhteo_in indicate any book or subject upon which heincreased, and I warn the country not to be- and no person would bemore pleased than himself, if the
th the
~t' I be specially examined." important
Have that our recent successes and honourable hon. member for Aylesbury would turn into practical
tieswill concluding
be
Poor- entitle us to believe that they will bring us to effect, the feeling which had taken hold of the country ;
, exa,.. -Law Board and the Board of Trade there as they are,
tes, atinatioe are a
a speedy and satisfactory peace. I believe the war will be for he was convinced that if they only gave it practicaldi-
too sto be us. The examination in the Exchequer ap.•
a long war, and that it will only be determined by such a rection, that great good would result from the movementof
,ti een, everY fair, if prorlcarried out, and has been
°hal beu satisfacto b Lord M t le In the Na- reform of the whole of our system, military and naval, as the association. (Hear, hear.) As regards the civil de-
g' „ eht,ofßee_ ry y on eag .
will lead us to send those men to the seat of war who are partments of the public service, hethought that the system
e st
-tt • candid • ated to a clerkship is subject to an ii ssio . ate/ nominated best fitted to carry on the war with due and proper effect. of competitive, free and open examination could be carried
,orrece4lear legible)
• ty a ation to show If we do not, the war will be either longer than we expect, out. Lord Panmure's intention to throw open to competi-
watihat. he can write with ease . and fact- or wo shall incur such disasters as wig compel us to make tion a number of military appointments, especially in the
ekes, ' rnanne e h that he can copy in a fair and a peace which will not be honourable and satisfactory to Engineers and Artillery, was a bold measure on the partof
1, out
r from manuscript or print, and manuscript Government that
ssta is selected and set before him for that so • that
purpo ;.this country. Let us infuse into the . the Secretary for War-one for which he was entities Ito
energy, that intelli
worthy of a gence, that wisdom in chimed, which is much credit, not only because it involved a sacrifice of pa-
,Zeigaee.,°°aPlete master. of arithmetic up to and including
'iad ' racti great people in the pressing moment of nu- tronan,e, but because it showed there was every disposition
t'd of geo ons; that he has a fair knowledge of history tional emergency. Cheers.) The hon. member concluded to look into the conduct of the public service with a view
teen 4. graPhy." by moving the resolutions of which he had given notice. to secure its greater efficiency. Whether the experiment
114'4 °a'netneeive how a man who is unable to copy from Colonel FREESTUN said, with respect to the statement as regarded military appointments would be successful was
lad wledge'ave much proficiency in any other branch of in the public
_payers as to his not having been'present at a question which he could not solve. The revision of those
_ , .
.080
110 ed t 0 • • lsk laugh.) There are a few other offices al- the meeting or the Administrativelute orm Association on establishments took place from a pitr.e love ofjustice, wit-
tiseln the r
as, . en _return with which I will not trouble the Wednesday, he was surprised that :he hon. member for out euloey, and without an ressure from the Ho of
y p . Use
'..4.14S .. els are the examinations now in existence, but Aylesbury should have presumed-should have dared to Commons.. (Rear, hear.) If he spoke of them it was
71tetis°11 have a fair • of ointment these a a t: his •
el means
.er!wp Wexs gues lon "racily- [Lord Goderich rose, •as several because te office he had held made the holder of it
Lot sv "s are no test of qualification. etion. (Hear.) do bon. members called the gallant gentlemen to order, alsPat more responsible for administrative ,tive reform, and finding
er, at't a inere e 'nation to enable a man after he has rently for thse same purpose, hut the noble lord did not that it I d been regularly in force under his predecessor
I"4lt4l'l)(,inted, tothe t f '
48- ark eo . enter ga es 0 a department ;we persevere-1 He asked the hon me tabor if either the 'mom- it was easy to make provision for their being
la s ateanerroination which will test the fitness of one leers for Plymouth, Mahlon •Giocester, Brecon, or Leeds I carried on. When they lied attained their Loom-
iele 147 r that of others who may apply for the office. were present at that meeting?statement ' pletioia when the hongentleman,
With that ley, and the other gentleman engaged with him in that we-
the member for Dud-
hisletterthat they were not.
a 'nia .Is a 8 to whether there ought to be competing in
. tR,:t atinns HeH erese repeated
merelythe
w
ep. itrenta , is one of considerable difficulty ; but the objo
ill labour, hadpresents:!
ect, and he was perfectly content to leave gentlemen of f
tsleetio_ In their favour are I thit k, stronger than thegreater ability
to deal with the
sheer "to them. It is • l'that ifthe public • •
eve, n °instil • said
general subject now before tails of various offices-he (Mr. Gladstone) did, on the part
of the Government of Lord Aberdeen, request Sir Charles
Ito cry Part ° all you will be assailed by claimants from Mr. LAYA RD said he w t
aid of th
-be do • e country. Ido not dink much harmhad fallen from the hon. ued
az extreme] surprised to bear Trevelyan and certain gentlemen who had a comprehensive
clone if that were th gallant member. He experience of the subject, to draw np 1 tailed rt
e case. An eminent French &dm net say the gentlemen wore presest -he merely re- giving a general view of,
the civil serviacet e And nroewpo i' t

been much that was faulty in their working, and it might
be desirable to reconstruct their machinery on a new. prin-
ciple. All that was natural enough. But that such matters
of detail should be perverted at a great public meeting, and
made the subject of an inflammatory attack upon a particu-
lar class, was to his mind a very great misfortune. (Hear.)
_A misfortune so great that he thought the house would, in
the first instance, do well to try and see what were the
causes, which gave to a question so harmless in itself so sini-
ster and so singular a tendency. Now, on this question it
was, very important to observe the dates when the cry for
administrative reform had assumed the shape which it now
appeared in, and when it first burst upon them. That date
was shortly after the accession of the noble lord the member j
for 'Tiverton to the head of threAdministretion. Parliament I
had laid greatfault, whether rightly or wrongly, on the mem-
leers of the late Government. The belief in their errors was
strengthened very much by the course pursued by the noble
lord the member for the City of London, who applied first
to Lord Aberdeen, and then to that house, to have one of
his then colleagues, the Duke of Newcestle, removed, and
the noble lord now at the, head of the Government placed
at the head of the War Department. The people took up
this view, and the Duke of Newcastl©
was ejected—the
noble viscount at the head of the Government being re-
garded as a trustee, so i o speak, for the proper carrying on
of the war, and for energy, reform, and vigour in all the
public departments, more especially in that relating to mi-
litary affairs. Up to this time the Administrative Reform
Association had never been heard of. Yet, but two weeks
after the accession of the noble viscount to power, the
country rang with the cry, Why ? He would tell them.
Because the noble lord had disappointed the expectations
which be had raised—because ho wanted decision and fore-
sight, qualities so essential in him who had the direction
of public effairs. The noble lord at the head of the Go-
vernment had not even made up his mind as to the course
he would pursue with reference to the Sebastopol Commit-
tee—the noble lord had so little decision that he could not
oven make up his own mind on the subject. The noble
lord invited the house to rescind their vote, and reminded
them of the story of Richard li., and compared himself to
Richard 11., who led a mob for the Purpose of drawing
them away, and refusing them any promise which he had
made them, and finding the house would be neither con-
tented with his blandishments nor satisfied with his illus-
tration, be then made a breach in the constitution, leaving
three of his colleagues on the other side of the water.
(Laughter.) The noble lord seemed to want foresight,
decision, and earnestness of purpose. The first military
expedition of Lord Chatham against Rochefort failed,
but the public were not dissatised, because they knew
it arose from no want of vigour in the Minister. But
from the first, the noble lord at the head of the Govern-
meat led the people to believe he was trifling with the
solemnity of the occasion, and showed a vacillation and a
want of sagacity which reminded them much more of Lord
North than of Lord Chatham. There was another conside-
ration. Let him ask the most, partial supporter of the noble
ord whether the noble lord had not entirely failed to carry
out the principle upon which his Government was con-
structed ? Why, Lord Panmure declared upon his appoint-
ment, not that he would carry out forthwith a vigorous
and well-digested plan, or that he would reform that system
of which the country complained—that the evils against
which the public so loudly and so justly inveighed should
be put an end to—that ho would pursue a course the op-
posite to that pursued by his predecessor—that he would
institute a different state of things from an army without
food, shelter, clothing, or medicine, in a condition which
male humanity shudder—not at all, but that he would
carry out the views of his predecessor, the Duke of New-
castle, to their full extent. Now if the views of the Duke
of Newcastle were right, why exchange Newcastle for Pan-
mere ? All dispassionate men acknowledged the humanity
and industry of the duke, and hoped he would have a place
in the service of his country hereafter. The only fault which
he was charged with was, that he had not fully attended to
the condition of the army, and provided for their wants. But
Lord Paninnre, so far from owning this or promising a dif-
ferent course, declared he would follow in the footsteps of
his predecessor; and this, together with the language and
the vacillating conduct of the noble viscount at the head of
the Administration, excited the middle classes of the coun-
try, and made them declare and feel that there was no use
in trusting to one Minister more than another—that all
were ready to sacrifice the interests of the country to the
conventional courtesies of a drawineeroom clique. They
therefore declared that a sweeping change must be made,
not only in Ministers, but in the whole system of Admini-
stration, and take the functions of the Executive into
their' own uncompromising hands. And for all these
daugers he held the noble lord opposite responsible. It was
not until the noble lord came into office that the country
was aroused, and by these public meetings threatened to
take the business out of the hands of the Government.
(Hear.) The people expected something more from the
noble lord than levity and jokes. Well, then, he would
put this question to the noble lord and his colleagues.
Did they construct themselves into a Cabinet merely for
the purpose of carrying out the measures of the last Go-
vernment? If so, how deeply had they injured the Duke
of Newcastle—(hear, hear)—and how egregiously had they
duped the expectations of the people. If the Government
said they came into office with plans and with improve-
ments of their own, then why had they so greatly eulo-
gised the Duke of Newcastle, and without distinction
praised all he had done? (Hear, hear.) Well, what had
the Government produced ? They had promised some
paltry reforms without embodying one single true prin-
ciple, or showing any evidence of inventive faculty. What
the Government had proposed was not enough—they
had launched the country into war without any plan, and
without takihg any preparation for it. The noble vis-
count had exposed the country to great dangers. Was
there a man who did not consider how serious were the
consequences to the whole social and political systems in
the present state of public feeling? Let him entreat the
house to ask themselves if they could not see in the un-
happy direction which this movement had taken out of
doors something highly dangerous; and what was of far
more importance than any particular Government or mere
aristocratic incapacity—a danger to the principle of re-
presentative Government. Those who debated this ques-
tion against the influence of party, and against the infln-
once of Parliamentary connection, could not be aware of
the consequences which were likely to result. To judge
from the language hold it was intended to make Ministers
inOopendent of the influence and the opinions of party.
That was the only way to interpret the language used out of
doors, and the result would be that the Crown would be-
come as absolute as in former times. If these meetings did
not mean to destroy Parliamentary parties, what did they
mean? Theyexpected, perhaps, to bring Parliamentary pro-
ceedings into contempt. Let the house now see whether the
Whigs could deny that ever since they came into power it
had not been their especial character to make a marked
distinction between themselves and the subordinate mem-
bers of their party. They drew around them a circle,
which might be called their celestial empire, and to the four
corners they banished their subordinates. During the last
20 years the public had seen this exclusive system of family
government. A question was now raised against the go.
veruing classes, which, be believed, was much exaggerated.
He, however, believed that the dangers might be laid- to
the door of the Government. He would do the noble lord
the justice of saying that he thought ho was more disposed
to break down the system of exclusiveness than the Go-
vernments before him—that he was honestly desirous to
extend his range of selection ; and he thought that in one
of his appoint ments—thepost of Chief Secretary for Ireland,
• a post which required the union of firmness and ability,
and the power of debating questions in that house—hehad
been singularly fortunate. He (Sir E L. Bawer Lytton)
believed that the public had grown tired of purely Whig
Administrations, and sooner or later their doom would be
sealed. Mr. Burke said that the Whigs of his time never
had a majority in the country, but that they owed their
position to dexterous management ; and at this time,
they said to the Radicals, "Support us, or you will let iu
those dreadful Tories," and to the Tories they said, " You
inu,t hear with us, or those horrible Radicals will come
in." He fully believed that this device was worn out. With
regard to administrative reform, he thought that they must
take this measure as soon as possible into their own hands
—not in the gr tdual manner which the right hon. member
for the University of Oxford had stated—but at once and
for ever out of the hands of the agitators. He would not
touch on the question of army reform, as he thought that
were better to be separated from administrative re-.
form, and to be made the subject of a distinct debate
(Hear, hear.) As to administrative reform, the elaborate
speeches of 'the right hon. gentleman the member for Ox-
for,? (Mr. Gladstone), and of the hon. gentleman who spoke
secoid in the debate, would save him the necessi-y of quo-
tations from the valuable reports of committees of the
house on the different subjects which come under that general
head. He would, on the authority of those gentlemen,
take it for greeted that there was an imperative want of
a Iministrative reform. The hon. gentleman then named
the principal administrative reforms which 'he wished to
see immediately effected, and which, as far we could
gather, were the following i—nameli' a primary examitta-
tiln to be applied to all candidates for admission to the
civil service ; a more judicious regulation of ea an s ; the
institution of good-service pensions; the bestowal of the
places and prizes in the service to those who belong to it;
the consolidation of the several disjointed departments
into a compact unity, so as to allow of promotion from one
department to another; responsibility of the men ; merit
as the condition of promotion; and that judicious steps
should be immediately taken to secure that merit in the
service, and to assure to it the rowarde which the service
could afford. These were reforms which could be made,
but they were such as required a vigour that the Go-
vernment had not shown, and a generous determination
to induce merit and to encourage exertion. Now, as
to the Treasury minute he was not satisfied with it, nor
was the country ; and he would tell the Government
why. The objects which were to be sought were, to pro-
cure the largest available amount of energy and intelli- '
gence for the service of the country, first, by means of
competition, and next, by furnishing professional induce-
ments to those who were in the service. Tho Government
had done by that declaration in the Treasury minute what
would frustrate. those objects. They (lid not widen the
range of candidates ; they still retained for the civil ser-
vice the character of a close borough ; and again they did
not assure even those who became candidates of any of the
prizes of the service. According to that minute, a man
might have prepared himself for the severest examination,
and yet find that, without any preparation or examina-
tion, a man might be put over his head. (Hear.) Again,
he differed from the right hon. member for Oxford in
thinking that these reforms ought to be introduced bit by
bit, and that they should go dawdling on with our public
establishments for the next 20 years. He was of opinion
that, whatever reforms might be adopted, and whatever
regulations for the encouragement of merit, and as a. sti-
mulus to exertion, these all should he applied at once to
all our establishments, so that no new reform in ono might
be contrasted with the lingering abuses of another. But
in the course pursued by the Government they had only
announced their desire to attract merit to the senior prac-
tical department, when another annouucenn ut followed
immediately after that the three great prizes—the director-
general of stores, the director-general of contracts, and the
assistant director-general of the army clothing department
—(cries of " hear, hear")—had been given away to men
much more connected with the Government than with the
service. Nothing could be more injudicious at a time.
when popular excitement ought to be allayed. than such
audacious specimens of personal lavouritistn. (Cheers.) He
sail he could not vote for the hon. gentleman's motion,
because, independently of the objections to it which he had
stated, he must connect that motion with the language
used out of doors on the subject, aml he could not consent
to sanction views and opinions which, apart from admi
etrative reform, he must consider unsound in principle an l
perilous in consequences. He was desirous that the house
should express their opinion on the subject of administra-
tive refOrm. But lie was sorry to say that not the least
dangerous character which b id been exhibited in the course
of this aeitation—encouraged, too, by le n. members of the
house—a' s the attempt that had been made to disparage
the chanicam of the house itself. For himself, as acting
with a party, were hi. views to amount to nothing but
party objects, ho might consider it his interest to connive
at that attempt, and conclude that that tribunal must be
wrong which thwarted the purp ises of hi?? party. But
he had found that the more familiar he had become with
books and with mankind, the more deeply was the patrio-

should be recollected, that the Government of Lord Aber-
deen did—without at all pledging itself to the particular
opinions contained in that report—advise her Majesty to
announce to Parliament that it was their intention to pro-
pose a great change with respect to admission into the civil
service ; and though ho hail never had an opportunity of
explaining, on the part of the Government, the particulars
of that measure to the house, yet it was understood that
they did involve the entire surrender of patronage in first
appointments in the civil service. And here he felt it his
bounden duty to say one word at least on behalf of the
aristocracy. It was too much the practice to mix up weak-
ness and corruption in our administrative system with the
aristocracy. He did not believe there was ever a Cabinet
more az istocratically constituted than that of Lord Aber-
deen., Of fifteen noble lords and right hon. gentlemen who
composed it, he was the only one whe could not fairly be
said to belong to the aristocracy. For that reason he could
speak with more free.loin on that subject, and say that the
Cabinet, so aristocratically formed, did of itself conceive
and intend to submit to Parliament, a plan for the total
surrender of its patronage. He was bound to make one
further declaration, that besides being the only individual
of the Cabinet that did not belong to the aristocracy,
he was also the only one who had no possible merit in the
proposal; for the very plain reason, that he had no pa-
tronage to surrender. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He
would not venture to reason on the question of what re-
ception that house would have given to a proposal of
that kind, if it hail been fully explained and debated there.
But he thought their own consciences would bear them
witness that it would not have been quite so easy to
induce the House of Commons to accede to it. That, then,
went a long way to acquit them. He did not wish to
entrap the house into an admission that the de-
cision of Lord Aberdeen's Government was a wise, one.
They could not wholly eradicate the principle of patronage,
hut they could do a great deal towards it. In his opinion
the country was in danger of being led astray by a number
of feeble propositions of amelioration, which could lead to
no useful result. They proposed one thing and another,
but in general each was more feeble than the other. (Hear.)
They said, for instance, " Why don't you examine candi-
dates for the civil service ? Examine them as strictly, as
rigidly as possible, but don't throw overboard altogether
the right of patronage." Well, they could not examine
them severely, except under a competition. The Board of
Inland Revenue was an example, in which the existing
system might be seen in action nailer its best form. It was
an example of the advantage of letting the patronage come
from the outside, and the rejection from within. On such
a principle the evil was greatly reduced, and in the Board
of Inland Revenue they had the best men of the public
service of this or of any other country— the, growth of
this or of any other system—and men whom he would
defy the whole range of occupations in the country to ex-
cel or equal. But the question was with regard to cases
where the chiefs of departments nominated to appoint-
ments under them. It was all very well to talk of rigid
examinations in such cases, but no board of examiners
dare assume the responsibility of rigidly examining such
nominees. It . had been doubted whether the order in
Council had reference to examinations for the civil service.
Now he considered that he hiteself was, to a great extent,
reponsible for that order in Council, and he considered the
defence of it to rest on these particulars. It made the ex-
amination universal and public, though no doubt it had been
the means of working hardships in cases where bona fide ex-
aminations came by surprise. There was another particular
connected w ith the order in council whichwas worthyof notice
and it was this—itopened thedoor to every other improvement
There was uothing in it tending to stereotyye the presentsys-
tsrn of examination, but rather to relax it, if the objects were
seen tobefully obtained. He confessed he must entirelygive
in his adhesion to the hon.mernber forAylesburywhen he said,
" MA° opeu admissions to the civil service ;" for he felt
all other remedies would be imperfect and illusory. It
was asked by one, " Why not dismiss all inefficient men?"
On the other hand, the noble lord the member for Lynn
gave as his opinion th•it all public servants should have
the power of appeal. Now, if they wanted to give a last
finishing strokeeto the public service it was that. (Hear.)
If they wished to paralyse and destroy that service, they
had only to establish the idea of a vested right in public
Appointments, and adopt the plan of giviug an appeal to
those who were threatened with dismissal. (Hear.) Then
they heard other suggestions mentioned. They heard of
probation," of " division into classes," and of " promo-
tion from division to division." Those, he was able to say,
were merely remedies on the surface, and such little ped-
dling measures would not do. In a Secretary of State's
office they might see the most beautiful arrangement of
that kind, where men rose by 5/. and 101. a year, with as
great a precision as if it were done in the scales of a gold-
smith. But that was not the true point. It was not the
question of admission that ought to occupy them, but that
of how to procure promotion by merit. Did promotion
take place by merit now? In 20, or 50, or 100 cases, per-
haps there was one such. It was certainly a very rare case,
and when it did occur it was from one or two causes—
either that the merit of the individual was so obvious that
it could not be ignored, or else that the chief of the depart-
ment lied more resolution or energy than usual, and set his
face, like a flint wall, against all difficulties in the way of
bringing it into full working order. Hence, too, they had
seen some examples of conspicuous ability in the public
departments. The constitution of officers in the civil ser-
vice was not favourable to promotion by seniority. Pro-
motion by seniority was looked upon as a vehicle for job-
ber e, and, therefore, there was a low tone pervading the
civil service, though they could boast of excellent and ad-
mirable men. But, on the other hand, the duty performed
was small, and the inefficient servants were overpaid,
while the useful ones were under-paid, and hence the re-
sult was unsatisfactory, and discontent prevailed every•
where. Then how was the system to be remedied ? It
seemed to him that a great part of the fault lay in the
admission originally, to persons being admitted, not by
merit, but bffavour. Could they not make persons un-
derstand, though admitted by favour, that they could only
rise by merit? If they entered by merit, it would 1;e
natural for them to expect that they could rise only by
merit, but coming in from any cause distinct from merit,
they did not understand being put aside out of their suc-
cession to higher offices on the ground cf other man being
better qualified. Lay open the civil service to all the world
that could fulfil their conditions. Let them have a. suffi-
cient examination, and then, at any rate, whatever other
evils they incurred, they gave it clearly to bo understood
that those who came in did not got in or bold their offices
except by merit. (Hear, hear.) in doing that they would
change their whole system—(hear, hear)---and ho was sure,
they would produce an atmosphere and a tone quite un-
known in the civil service, by the feeling which all would
have that it was by merit alone they could be promoted.
The bon. gentleman the member for Dudley had referred
to the grievance of the superannuation, and he (Mr. Glad-
stone) thought there was something anomalous in calling
that superannuation which was contributed to at too high
a rate for such a purpose. (Hear.) But he understood
that it was imposed in lieu of a reduction of salary, and
had its origin in the time of Lord Grey. This he had
learned from his right hon. friend the member for Carlisle.
In 1831 there was a disposition to reduce _and cut down
every public servant. In 1850 that disposition became so
strong that the hon. member for Oxfordshire almost car-
ried a resolution in that house by which it would have
bean determined to cut off 10 per cent. from all salaries
under the civil service of the army.. That motion had been
forgotten completely, and they had since heard of nothing
hut the miserable ivadequacy of salaries in the public ser-
vice. Ho confessed he could not subscribe to that doc-
trine. Their good servants were certainly underpaid,
and their bad ones overpaid, but the public in the aggregate
paid the highest salaries. He requested the house would
think this was a question which demanded great conside-
ration. The feeling which pervaded out of doors with re-
spect to our administrative system was such as the hon.
gentleman beloW him had described; but he was equelly sure
that it was easy t, prove that there would be a great deal
of difficulty in attaining even to a loWer degree of perfec-
tion than that which was aimed at. He doubted whether
tho system of patronage contributed, in the least, to the
strength of the Executive Government. On the contrary,
he thought it was their we ikness. He found proofs of
that in the number of unsettled legislative questions that
went on from year to year, produced and reproduced, in
the form of bills ab indoned, one after another, and Rover
arriving at a settlement. He maintained that the Execu-
tive Government—not this or any other particular Govern-
meat—required strengthening ; but he could not think
it could be strengthened by patronage; bat oven if it
could, he would regret the maintenance of such a system,
for it was an unmixed evil. He granted they could not alto-
gether get rid of patronage; for though a system of exa-
mination, in proof of merit, might be very well adopted,
for young men of 18 or 20, first entering the subordinate
ofii;es of Government, it was not adapted for men of a
later period of life to be chosen for the higher branches of
administration. There must be a degree of responsibility
in the choice of persons for the higher offices of the public
service. As regarded first admissions, there was not, and
could not he, any responsibility whatever. Nobody knew
or cared who were the men who found their way into the
lower offices of the Customs, or the Inland Revenue, or
the Post-office, or the Secretaries of State's offices, or the
don. Unless in cases of the greatest flagrancy, you might
Treasury, or avy of the administrative offices about Lou.epeeirit the most indifferent men—and in a great many
cases the most indifferent men were appointed. To get
rid of such a system would be a relief, and a blessing to
the country, It would be better economy to get good
men, and give them better pay, than to have worse men
at a lower rate. But beyond that it would do much for
the general education of the country. They had three
education bills now before the house, which showed
the difficulties of the subject ; but he thought they
could not devise any scheme so reffective as throwing
open the civil service of the country. (Hear, hear.) The
reform of the present system, therefore, would do much
for economy, it would do much for education, it would do
yt,heitd also do
efficiencywoulef the public service, and, permit
much for the publio virtue of
the country. They, in that house, felt that the position
hmiumehto fors a
of members themselves towards their constituents was not
altogether satisfactory. (Hear.) Perhaps no person felt it
so little as he did, because his constituency was not in a
condition to become applicants for Government situations;
but he spoke of what was a generally admitted fact, and
that being so, a serious change as as desirable, if only for
the sake of that class who might be said to subsist on hope
deferred. There could be no more unsatisfactory state of
society than that which contained a class of expectants.
Whenever en object was to be obtained there were ten or
twenty people pulling all the strings whereby they thought
they could get possession of it. That multitude of candi-
dates did not increase the number of offices to be obtained,
but the vague idea that these offices were obtainable
through interest led to an indefinite number of applicants,
and thus kept a large class of persons in a state fatal to
their true interests, and destructive of the manliness of
their character. (Hear.) He therefore hoped the house
would give their best attention to the consideration of this
question, and although he could not support the motion of
his hon. friend, yet he must say ho had listened to what
had fallen from him, with regard especially to the diplo-
matic and consular services—he would not pronounce any
opinion with regard to military appointments, of which he
knew little—with the most sincere satisfaction; and he
heartily wished they might bring about a change of the
nature he had indicated, and which he believed would con-
fer a great and lasting benefit on the country. (Hear.)
Sir E. B. LYTTON rose to move the following amend-
ment :—" That this house recommends to the earliest atten-
tion of her Majesty's Ministers the necessity of a careful
revision of our various official establishments, with a view
to simplify and facilitate the transaction of public busi-
ness, and, by instituting judicious tests of merit, as well as
by removing obstructions to its fair promotion and legiti-
mate rewards, to secure to the service of the State the
largest available proportion of the energy and intelligence
for which the people of this country are distinguished."
The hon. baronet, who was very indistinctly heard at the
commencement of his speech, was understood to say that
he did not complain of the tone of the debate in that house,
but a very different state of feeling existed out of doors, for
there had been no question in their time so simple in itself
which had been encumbered by so dangerous an agitation
out of doors as the motion which was now submitted for
their consideration. (Hear.) It might perhaps be expected
that after a 40 years' peace the departments connected with
war would be found in a faulty state—there Might have

tic spirit and the intellectual character of the house im-
pressed upon him ; and he must add, after an experience
of twenty years, he could not recollect a. time when the
house was more worthy of the respect and the confidence
of the people, whether for the abilities whioh the mem-
bers had displayed, or, as he believed, the personal incor-
ruptibility of those of whom it consisted, or their
zeal for the weal of the kingdom at large. He had shaped
his amendment so as to bo free from all party spirit,
in the hope that every member, whatever might be his
party or politics, might zecord a vote which he could vin-
dicate to his constituents, and justify to his conscience. He
hoped that the amendment which he had proposed would
be fortud such as to conciliate the approbation of members
on both sides of the house. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LABOUGHERE should not have risen had it not
been for observations which he understood had fallen from
Sir S. Northcote with respect to the appointment of Mr.
Fonblaneue to the statistical departreeut of the Board of
Trade. He (Mr. Labouchere) desired to take upon himself
the responsibility of that appointment, which he thought
was to be justified most completely, considering the high
character of Mr. Fonblanque, and his remarkable statisti-
cal acquirements. He regretted that the member for
Dudley should have thought it expedient ton'condemn the
appointment during his (Mr. Labonchere's) absence from
the house, ani without giving him the slightest notion of
his intention.
Mr. S. NORTHCOTE remarked, in explanation, that he
was confident his right hon. friend had made his observa-
tions simply because he did not hear the speech about
which he complained. He (Sir Stafford) had made no re-
mr-rk whatever against tho appointment of Mr. Fon-
blanque, beyond the observation that it was an illustration
of individuals not previously connected with the civil ser-
vice beim.; appointed to the most important offices. (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he re.
joiced that this question of administrative reform had been
brought under the notice of the house. It was a question
net only of great importance in itself, but one that had
lately occupied a large portion of public attention. It was
an easy and convenient practice for an association of gen-
tlemen agreed upon an important subject to call a public
meeting, to which persons were admitted by ticket to se-
cure unanimity of sentiment. But when such a question
as that of administrative reform was brought under the
notice of Parliament, it underwent a searching investiga-
tion by persons representing all shades of opinions and sen-
timents. The motion which the hon. gentleman proposed
embodied in it the question of administrative reform, but
it was at the same time a vote of want of confidence in her
Majesty's Government. The sentiments of the right hon.
gentleman for Oxford (Mr. Gladstone) were not fully borne
out when he said that that was only a theoretical question,
the discussion of which would lead to no practical result.
He begged to say that the practical result would be the
resignation of the present cabinet. That was a practical
question. It was practically a vote of want of confidence
in her Majesty's Government. This was the second vote
of this kind submitted to the house during the last fort-
night. A similar question had already been decided upon
the negotiations at Vienna. In considering this question
of administrative reform it was important to retain in
view the distinction between the executive and the
legislative duties of Government. In a popular Govern-
ment the two must always be kept distinct. The latter
had a right to ask theiir confidence, or to ask them to
withdraw it. It was impolitic to bring forward a vote of
want of confidence, and if votes of this kind were brought
forward, they must ask the house to give them a decided
negative. This motion, in effeot, went to show that the
public interest had been sacrificed to public feeling. Now,
he would ask whether it was possible to exempt it from
party and political influence? If they looked at the United
States, they would see it carried to a much greater extent
than in this country. When apolitical party in the United
States succeeded to power, not only the political, but all
the subordinate offices were filled up. In the most popular
Government on the face of the earth, the change was much
more complete than in this country, Then they come to
the other question—namely, whether merit was sacrificed
to political influence. It could hardly be denied that per-
sons should not be excluded from public offices by their
connection with hereditary descent. If it was an honour
to receive from the Crown rewards for distinguished ser-
vices in civil and military capacities, then a conuexion with
that class could be no disparagement. It had always been
the pride of this country, that no distinct lice was drawn
between the several classes of society, but it would appear
from the argument of the hon. gentleman, that he supposed
that the practice of appointing peers to high offices of
state had increased rather than diminished of late years,
but history showed that a large proportion of the offices
hail at all times been held by the aristocracy. When Mr.
Pitt, on overcoming the coalition of Lord North and Mr.
Fox, came into office, he was the only commoner in the
Administration. (Hear, hear.) He alone sustained the
great struegle; but he was unsupported by a single com-
moner. That example showed the practice of that day.
But the hon. gentleman next attributed the disfavour of the
public to their want of efficiency in administrative ability.
Well, he admitted that a blind adherence to routine trans-
formed the executive to a mete machine. Nevertheless,
routine was necessary to the traneaction'of all business;
for instance, how could the business of that house be con-
ducted without adhering to routine? It was the same
with Government departments. He was unable to assent
to this motion of the hon. member. With regard to the
motion of the right honourable gentleman opposite, if the
amendment WA S to be construed by its plain and straight-
forward meaning, not by the speech of the bon. baronet,
he saw no difficulty. At the same time he must inform
the house that a careful revision of the several public de-
partments had taken place of late years. The motion was
not justified by any omissions of the Governments pre-
viously existing. He would call attention to the steps
already taken for a revision of some of the principal de-
partments. (Hear.) In the year 1848 a revision of the
Home Department took place at the time when his right
hon. friend now the Secretary of State presided over that
office. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was then
Under Secretary. A revision took place, in which Sir
Charles Trevelyan carefully examined the department. In
18-18 a revision of the department of the Treasury also took
place. Sir Charles Trevelyan and Sir William Gibson
Craig discharged the duty of inquiring in to the department.
They made a careful examination, and various reforms were
introduced into the department. In 184 a similar revision
took place of the Colonial-oflice. Since that time, in nearly
al! the public departments, extensive reforms were made,
and the rule now was, that merit and qualification were
the tests of admission to the public service. A recent
order in council provided for the admission of candidates
for situations in tho public service to a greater extentthan
ever before existed, and their appointment would depend
solely on merit, carefully ascertained by a severe and im-
partial examination. This was a practical proof of the in-
tention of the Government to secure the best men for the
best places. He would only state his conviction that any
practical measure for the advancement of Administrative
Reform would meet his support, and he was sure the Go-
vernment would give any such measure their most careful
consideration. (Hear, hear.)
Lord GODERICH moved the adjournmeat of the debate
whereupon the house divided, and there appeared
For the adjournment ........................... 240
Againstit ........................................ 29
Majority for the adjournment...... —2ll
The debate was then adjourned.
CONSOLIDATED FUND (10,000,0000 BILL.
The house then went into committee on this bill, and
the clauses having been agreed to it was reported to the
house.

COURT OF SESSIONS SCOTLAND BILL.
On the motion that this bill be read a third time,
Mr. F. SCOTT moved that it bo read a third time that
day three months.
After some discussion,
Mr. DISRAELI hoped Scotch members would not, in
the first instance make inflammatory speeches, and then
tiwithdraw their opposition, after wasting much valuable
me. _

The bill was then ordered to be read a third time on
Monday week.
BILLS OF LADING (No. 2) BILL.
The house then went into committee on this bill.
On the 4th clause being proposed,
Mr. BOUVERIE moved the omission of the clause.
After same discussion,
Mr. HENLEY, considering that the clause was of too
much importance to be disposed of at that hour, moved
that the Chairman should report progress, and ask leave to
sit again, which was agreed to.
THE EDUCATION BILLS.
Lord PALMERSTON, in answer to a question by Sir J.
Pakington, said it was not in his power to fix a day for
the farther discussion of th"se bills, as the debate of that
night stood adjourned till Monday.
OFFICE OF SPEAKER.
Upon the motion of Mr. WALPOLE, the following gen-
tleloen were nominated the Select Committee upon the
Office of Speaker :—Mr. Walpole, Lord J. Russell, Mr.
Disraeli, Sir G. Grey, Colonel Patten, Mr. Bright, Mr.
Ellice, Sir W. Heatlicote, the Attorney-General, Sir F.
Thesiger, the Lord-Advocate, Mr. Fitzroy, Mr. Baines,
Mr. Freshfield, and Sir R. Ferguson.
•
The house adjourned at half-past 1 o'clock.