The National Register.
London, England, 1819-06-13 00:00:00

THE NATIONAL REGISTr,R.

give the amount which had been named. I'lacing the duties
nuwe distinctly under the Excise would be serviceable, as the er-
tido were susceptible of touch adulteration ; and adulteration
would be more effettually checked by the Eloise. All the duties,
it was proposed, should be extended to Ireland and Scotland. ex-
cepting that on Spirits. The Malt Duty, which was calculated
would produce 1,400,000/. would be one shilling and two-pence
per baelael. The amount of the materials for brewing Lad year
was 3/. 19. i.; this year it was .5/. be; and from the elan:l:lent of
Mr. Itatelay. he was warranted in thinking, that the puldie
might look to a reduction of the price of Leer —(/.and CAcering )
There woukl be no reason to advance the price of beer now. and
he confidently expected that a reduction of the price would soon
take place.—The advance on spirits he thought essential to pro-
tect the Breweries, as well as the morals and health of the people
Mor.) lie had now gone through the items, and if further
explanation were required, he should be happy to give it. He
repeated that the loan for next year would not be above 4,060,004
except it could be raised by 01111:1' Illetilla and lie trusted that
afterwards the Government would have no occateion to trouble the
House on the painful subject of loans and new taxes. (Hear.)
Ile hoped those who hail supported the Government on the pre-
sent occasion. would have die thanks of their Constituents, after
the irritation of the moment had gone by.—( Hear.) He con-
cluded with 'noting that it was expedient to raise 12,000,000/
by annuities.
Mr. GRESIFELL agreed that it was not only desirable, but
with reference to the best interests of the country, must expedient
that it should posses. a surplus of inure beyond the expendi-
ture ; that it errould possess, in short, what was well known by
the name of diet Sinking Fund. lie also agreed, that it was most
fit that that surplus should be carried further than the existing
amount of 2 millions—that it should be increased by the two
modes, of reduced expenditure and additional taxes, to 5 mil.
lions. Alter the country should thus be placed in an attitude to
command respect from all die world, he should feel moat happy
if, by economy, by the proposed regulations in the collection of
the revenue, and lastly, by the operations of compound interest,
those 5 millions were raiael to 3 millions of surplus. was
one pert of the subject not adverted to, but upon which he was
pe.rtireariy sensitive; and though it appeared in itself trifling, it
might produce results of the utmost vale,:: i.e alluded to the ge-
nerally understood refusal of the Bank of England to give the
loan contractors that acconimodation which for the lust en or 25
years it had afforded, by making a proportionate advance on the
instalments of the loan. The directors must forgive hint for
asserting, that there was !oznething of littleness and low niind-
othiess, eornething of pique and spleen in this refusal : it was an
opposition to She government and the country, wholly unworthy
persona profeassiug to take such an interest in the cor.cerns of the
...ninon. It was, perhaps, natural that the corporation should
feel same degree of resentment against government, which, after
20 or 25 years of subserviency, hail at last broken the fetters
by which they lied been so long and injuriumly bound; and he
was not eurprieed that the directors now came torward and con-
sidered such an attempt as a romance to their high and mighty
authority. ( It was not to be wondered that 24 mei-
chants, meal eneabed in the pursuit of gain, should be a little
intoxicated with tine power they had for a series of years exer-
cised ; and they inignt be allowed to feel a little chagrin and
surenees that their lowa was now at an end. They had hitherto
been uixiouely eomulted by ministers in all exigencies regarding
the finances, end 110 doubt they thought it a little hard that
those to whom (though riot quite disinterestedly) they had given
their advice and assistance, now turned against diem. Perhaps
even they might feel some portion of resentment at the apparent
ingratitude of their proteges, the First lamd of the Treasury and
the Chancellor of the Emile:quer. ((.'seers and tang/del.) It
Would be easy to gu more at large into tits point, but lie would
merely congratulate minister.: tnat they had at length effected
their emancipation front a species of tyranny us disgraceful to the
governmeat as injurious to the best interested the country.
Mr. al AYNING denieti the charge mo t unequivocally, and he
called upon the hon. gent. to prove or to retract it. The direc-
tors had been told, that they were not to be politicians ; that
they had nodding to do with the state of the country, or its in-
tenota ; and that they ought to eontine themselves to their boobs
and their banking business. The conductor the directors, on tine
particular question referred to. had nothing to do with tine point.
now before the committee. He was quite willing to bear his-
, share of reeponsibility for the dratheion at which that body bad
arrived, and he would nut attempt to screen hinteelt by any ex:
planation (if the motives by which Inc had been actuated.

Mr. tin uNFI:I.I. exphated. The hon. gent. had represented
it as scarcely honourable in him to have stated that there had been
a tkivision in the Court of Dbectors, siace that hat could not have
been communicated to lihn•without breach of confidence. He lind
only to slay that he had heard the fact stated upon the pubic
street. and by a Bank director, when two or three other gentle-
men ware present. and that no symptom of any necessity or any
wish tor secrecy lure appetred.
EatJima NEWPORT said, that he really thought the conduct
eof the Bank perfectly right. After the steps taken for the re-
sumption of cash.payments. it was but fair that the Bank.should
exercise their own ~liscretion.

Ale BEN X e r felt Knelt relacumee to speak on a financial sub-
ject, but he must rentark, that, conoidermg the sue/dices made
by the people ut this country, the privations which they had
endured, and the diatheses by whic4 they.hul been depressed.
he was astonished at the amount of revenue which they paid.
When be considered the distress, s,tfl ring, mi►eay, and wrt,:h.
edness that prevailed; when he saw disease. the result of misery•;
and saline, the result of 'Merry sail lliktUkt : when he observed
every where ;vaster want and misery. than Eng/end ever knew
since it beerune a kingdom : what he found, into whatever de-
perune»t he looked, whether into the agriculture, the commerce,
or the manuttetures of the country,' that nothing was to be seen
but distress, want, and beggary; when he cor.sidered these
eintes, cempelied to call it sensing short of nuttiness to
imytoe one mow ter, and he thought it isnpo.sible to foresee the
result. On the particular tares, and especially on the malt tax,
he should oiler some olwervicions on a future occasion. He beg-
.gad, however, to say before he coucluded, that the 330 persons
who had voted for 5 millions snare of taxes were aware that this
was not the end, but the begin uir.g of Derlisuneut. I.:lkt yes ion
5531 u persona could not have been found in that !louse to give such
a vote ; and if they had been found they would lave mat with
tie same receptitut which those who had voted away the
liberties of the people net with. lle wished much, however
great the inconvenience ut it, that those three hundred and thirty
persont
.should be sent lark to the people, when, instead of
the hold tone which they assumed iu diet House, they would
have recourse to apologias, and be covered with shame fur their
conduct.

Mr. MAN SEIELti said, he was not afraid, even if he were to be
haulm:lately sent bark to lab ontitittuents—if there were now to
be a diloolution of Parlitutteto—he should not be afraid to tell
the Mow that he aporovtal of a property tax. lie thotucht it
ir.dnitely Getter for the ;louse to bay, .• Come and lay a me
dined property tax, of which we slot!' fee! the burden,' than to
Wilmot any other tax. hut if gentlemen would not have a pro-
perty tax, he thought. Abort ate property tax. that the taxer pro-
posed were the most lenient ; but it a property tax Avoid be
reeonimended, lbt: would shift his ground and support it.
_ _

Mr. J. P. GRAN" said, the question wail, bow tile country, co
much pressed maw, could be relieved. 'The remedy wax not an
ii.creaae of taxation. Let the erimury, on the contrary, ix allowed
a little ere:ie. and then its industry, its resource., ...ad its prospe-
ity wouln increase. That was the only niuue of increasing the re
Venue, and ultin»tely reducing our burdens.
sit n.lv /1.50 31 objected to t& proposed taxation, on the ground
that it would give to bad and desperate characters, of whom
there were wine in the country, an opportunity of inflaming the

JUNE 13.

minds of the people by the representation that they were taxed,
as was in fact the case, beyond 'heir ability to pay. Inenxiseat
taxation in time of peace would also have the effect of taking
from the fundholder any security of ultimate payment which he
might have. This was the ca,e in France ; it was the case in
Prussia. It might be, as in the CIA'S of those countries, that a
forced tempom.-y supply might be obtained, but then it would
be, as with them, the destruction of the sources of fair and tea-
:enable revenue.

Mr. Aldermen WOOD objected to the tax on malt, which, in
the present depressed state of the farmers, would be most se-
verely felt.
Mr. Ittesnuo had already opposed the grant of 3 millions
towards a .=inking-fund, because he did not wish to place such a
fund at the mercy of ministers, who would take it whenever they
thought urgent necessity required it. Ile therefore never woubl
hive a vote in support of any tax which went to continue a sink-
ing fund: for if that fund were to amount to R millions, minis-
ters would on any emergency give the same account of it as they
did at present. The delusion of it was seen long ago by all those
who were acquainted With the lbjeet t and it would have been
hut fair and sound policy to have exposed it long ago. On the
subject of the loan he had nothing to obiect. Ile gave credit to
and thanked the tight honourable gentleman (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) for his good management within the last two or
three days. It wax, he conceited, creditable to hint to have ef-
fected the loan on such good terms, when it was considered that
only a few days back the funds were at GI Hut though he gave
credit to the right hon. gent. for his plan in one respect,. it teas
but tide to his hon. friend (Mr. Orenfellt near him, to say that
this was the advice which he hail given long ago.
Mr. GOENVELT. wished to untletstand the right honourable
gent. (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) on his intentions respect-
ing the sinking fund. He wished to know whether there was
only to be a real sinking fund of live millions, or whether the old
machinery should go on as before, and the system of borrowing
front it be continued. Ile could not consider the present plan as
n breach of faith with the public creditor, for it was in strict con-
formity with Mr. Fox's clause. As a proof that it was net eon-
sidercxl a breach of faith by those who were the best judge,, he
need only mention, that when on Friday last it was known on the
Stock-exchange that those 12 millions were to be applied to die
service of the country, the 3 per cents., which were at 6G, rose in
a very short time to 69.
The Citateerbboa of the Exettr.cluEn replied, that he did
not wish to be misunderstood upon this subject, but that any ar-
rangement now made would not Fledge him to a particular one
next year. If it were necessary to take off only It millions next
year, there would not be more than 4 millions to borrow ; and
perhaps circumstances might be such as do away altogether with
the necessity of borrowing further ; that the arrangements re-
specting any loan next year, however small, would depend oa
the state of improvement of the country.
The resolutions were that read by the Chairman.
On the Chairman putting time resolution, " that there be grant-
ed a sum of 240,004. to be raised by lottery," (hear),
Mr. CRIPYA entertained strong objections to the noolution,
upon which lie would certainly divide the house.
The gallery• was teczuretingly &artal fur a division, when the
numbers were—

Ayes - 117—Noes -49—Majority in favour of the resolution ea.
The next resolution was—That upon every bushel of malt,
barley, corn, or any grain brought from Soot:int! into England.
there be laid an tXCldg duty of Is.; and a duty of upon
every pounehof tobacco and snuff, the same not being Irish snuff,"
. Mr. Goode claimed the attention of the house fur a few tui-
mites. He very seldom troubled them upon questions of this
nature ; it was always with great reluctance that be addressed
them, and in the present instance he did so with extreme pain.
(Hear.) It might, perhaps, seem very inconsistent in hint. ale'
voted on a former revision for the financial resolutions el de
right honourable gentleman, now, to oppose one of the prineied
taxes suggested by him. Suck, however, was his intention. and
be should du so from this motive—.that the lended interest of the
country had a riche to esniplain of the manner in which their
grievances had hien considered, and their petitions received. A 4
a men thee fin one of the great agricultural counties, lie should ill
discharge his duty to his constituents, if he did not carefully
watch over their inters:as. They had been told by an hon. gent.
that their interests woe sufficiently partixted already by the corn-
bill. But from that opinion he dissented most entirely: the corn-
bill vows dead letter in fact, and co protection whatever. The
landed inter.st demanded only -what terry other body of men
had—protection ; a protection against the foreign farmer, who
could afford to bring his corn to market at 40s. cheaper than they
could. Not only was that corn bill no protection, but fresh taxes
were now to be opposed upondiern. (.Ilear,) The Chazcellor
of the Exchequer lend told them, that this uuty on malt would
affect neither the land.helder 110 T the cousunier. Certainly this
was not one of the happiest sad most ingenious tuxes ever de-
vised ; for it was not to affect any one. ( Hear, and ;waft Luigi,-
ter.) lint the fact was, that it it did not press upon the
boldest, it nemssarily would upon the poor. the great betty of
whom were sopeurted by the pcor ratea--another circumstance
materially affecting the agricultural interest, and as he always
looked upon that es °noel the :met inyortant of all, he should
undoubtedly proem it.
Mr. WIXTON said. the Chancellor of the Exchequer Iran
made certain charges against the brewers, and had only dote
that ; for now, after conversing, as he lihnself declared, with a
gentleman fully informed on the subject, and on whose authority
he prefessed himself to have implicit reliance, the right honour•
able gentleman hail not had the &into., or the justness to come
forward and acknowledge his erase. Ha (Mr. Bunion/ might be
allowed to feel warm, he hoped, on a subject like this; and
though, in what he should say, he wished to observe strictly the
respect iole to the house, and that which he entertained pesso.
:tally fur the right hon. ger.t., yet he wished to give toehe
'gateman of that right hon. gent. as positive. char. and dietct
contradiction as it:candid' huiguage could furnish him with the
means of giving, ( ('itecre cud laughter.) The Chanceiler of the
Exchequer had said, then, that although the malt tax, upon
being repealed, had been lost to cite government, yet that circum-
stance had rot heat-fitted die people.and :bat the whole advantage
of it had .hetai to the brewers, who • continued to charge as be-
fore.

Cuhmel Wontitenosii would not resist the imposition Of
taxes for the purposes proposed by the government. but
would ohject to the tax upon malt on the geoerill principle
that it would discourage the von th of corn. *hick *o,"
be at s •citrus evil is the present slate of the agricelsere of the
COUIII ry.

Mr.Ci LS ER I said, be would object to all the proposed
taxes as imp/evolve to the lower classes of the roininunT..
The resolution now before the !louse, imptoing nn taidi•
Clonal duty on mutt, and thereby reising the price of beer,
woo d particularly affect the lower classes.
Mr. flostirlitts sail, that 011 two VeCtoioll9 there bad
been nu proposition of reduction till the competitory, re-
ceived art impulse from the Chimes:bur of the Eschequei;
they ilcelvreil that they were racer to reduce, and yet they
had allowed three months to elapse w ithout attempting such
reduction. The tardiness attic memures wasooly equalled
by the -extraordinary mode of carrying their rim:petit iiiii
into %test. Ihe flouts. had been told that the brew rs lord
debit-mined to hold a mretinz. at a hich those e""4"l.:firS
well, to purse their coin petit loss by coming t..
.w andtr-
stonliog aid conceit to reduce their prices. (/Par ano a
laugh). With ,egad to the price of beer, be was free to
allow, that if the proposed tax were not imposed, these
gentlemen must have held one of their couveuient (mart,-

I

sun it

lion ineetitigs fur the purpose of reducing the price. (Mar.)
Titr i uric mug', li not interfered with by duty on malt,
have been reduced; but lie was prepared to cuntewd, that it
was n luort thing to hod a tax *hick did nut increase,
although it prevented the lightentng the tubdetts of t
pe..ple, while at the same time it actually benefited the
stale. It must be evident to now rational matt that three
Immo= of bites could nut he imposed on nay articles so hat-
ever, without being felt by the country ; hut there winn a
girat di:femme between a tax that increased the pi ice of an
us ticle, and one that twenty prevented it falling. lu atom,
to Mr. Woriedome, the flight Hon. Gent. contend. d, that
the lax atom malt would produce nu injurious elect upon
agricultUre, and that the agricultural iaterest had nu right
to shut out an adequate supply for the consumptiou of the
country, if they could not fullthil it thenatielse%. prevent
fit waa to be view rd us it affected the consumer and the
revenue. That the qua City of mull would 1101 be increased
toy dimiiiishing the tix was evident by the simple fact, that
last year the quantity of barley, malted in Ragland, althou,o
the article was Cheap, awl the duty taken ott,tiad been
less than that of the lust year of tile war, w ht a toe war duty
was iu force. Thus, neither the yes euue had bear:fitted by
any iurreased quantity of malt, nor the pair is by any Mini.
what of price. His Hien Hun. blends around hint would
bear aitacls to the se which had been shovels to find
nut subjects of taxation which would be moat productive and
least oppressive. A. tax upon articles of luxury a "old not
have omit ere': the purpose. Tory were therefol4° NUJ pt lied
to resort to 'me at art article of general use and great con-
sumption. An Hon. Gent. (Mr. Boston) had wild that he
would agree to taxes, breanse they punished us for the war,
made the people feel its evils, and thus tended to p
them from engaging in future hostilities. He (Mr. Haskis•
sot.) wei frienol to peace, ntid ns much an enemy to star
as the Hun. Gem.; hut he thought the best way of preserviug
the our, and of isvoioing the oilier, aus 0 place the country
is a state of smutty, and to show in foreign nations that we
could not be iojared or imulted Wilk impunity.
Mr.(.. Li ft would oppose all the itioposed taxes as
oppressive to the lower orders, though not w au equal degree.
Ile protested Nob's! ail 111• W lases t II every source of
economy and retrei:clintent were extamated.

sir siu natant. supported site taxes generally, but pro-
fes-el himself hostile to the tax oil malt, its it sill. cted HO-
culture. though lie was sorry to oppose so good a ay stem as
that of which it formed a part.
Mr. Simeon a r did out Salem, to trouble the House at
any great lenAth at that late hour of the isight. He could
not, howevess help thanking the Hon. Member opposite
(Mr. fluskisson), for the admission *Welt he had made,
though at the sunte.tinse he must observe that it seas not an
sum .sign ann.? vet?. great importance. 'The admission to
wit c.y he allud.A to was this—that when three millions of
laves were to he imposed upon the country, they must be
p lid by slmehody, and the weight of them must full some-
h re ; and that it was not, as the Chancellor of the I:xche-
quer hail stated it to he, that lie should get the money
• itlhait Any Maly losing it. (hear, hear). Indeed from the
mariner to which that Right lion. (ient had pose through
the budget, he would ;let) any person to say boo the revenue
was to be raised, or us, whom its pressme was principally
to fall. It had long been the custom to taunt the gentlemen
with whom he haul the honour of actiug as Idle theorists and
insane projectors; they had been twins d during many si lung
year as nom who proposed nothing to the House but the
most vague and extravagant projects, but it had turned out
that sere the prot tacol ritea, mud that the Right Hon.
Gentleman and his supporters were these vain, visionary
theorists %bids lie hod:awed them to be. (Loud cries of
hear.? Had all bees, comirmed in the cootie of the debate,
he must must strenuously oppose it, not merely this tax, hot
all the others now proposed. They were sill equally °pp°.
site to the principles of sound political economy ; mud though
he should WA enter upon them now, be should say ere pursaar,
that they were each injudiu Mos as the malt tax. Oise word
more ass to the necessity of this tax; it was said to be requi-
site to take two millions nut of the pockets of the pour, in
order to restore the country to a state of happiness and
prosperity. An Hon. Member had said, we must have dose
taxes al a reaarce w ah w hall to rouble us to meet a future
war. it was true, we might go to star, tl l gh he hoped
that such an evil was sec) far distant. liven when it fell
upon in, we should he able to meet it better by net pressing
too hard upon our resources in time of peso. r by suffering
those, restful Cet to heemoulate they would have an far true-
tided as to enaiile the people to snake head against their
enemy with much; seater vigour than if the House were to
make tiwtmelves trustees of till the property in the nation,
and allow it to accemulate at compound interest. There
was no better way of horsing the property of the subject,
than by leuvitig it io his own hands; therefore to state that
there was any necessity fur this lux, and to call upon the
liftelholder, and especially on the butley-grower, to pay it,
ant as great is ranee), as the Right lion. Gent. had ever
ventured to propose to the enuu.try. Ile sliuMil oppose the
present tax in every stage of it.
Mr. Cone. declared nonself to be against all new taxes,
whatever they might he, mail an experiumut had been made
of what might be done by retresichavent, he would never
comeiti to impose a new tax upon the already too much Isar-
dened people. Besides, of all tat taxes which could possibly
have been du sited, the malt tax was the must oppressive. He
bud miss doubt that the government had seceived the memo-
o hien had been sent from the county of Norfolk, con-
planning of tile distress of the agriculturists; and yet with
this memorial b. fore them they butt come rumors-I with at
new tux which would press most heat ily upon his constitu-
ents. The ministry ou4Sit to tosser and 551st increase this tin-
post. In that case, the cousumption of barley would be in-
creased, and the interest of the agriculturist in consequence
improved. lie should oppose any tax upon wow, tea, cof-
fee, sk.c.; bat he should oppose atilt stifl greater vehemence
so unjust and impolitic a tax us it was now proposed to lay
upon malt.
The Committee then divided upon the malt resdttica, and
the uuffilosts were—