The National Register.
London, England, 1811-02-24 00:00:00

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he was persuaded that he was wrong by a much greati.r majority
of that House than had opposed him on a former occasion..:
When before the House in the last Session it was observed to
him that he entertained projects much more considerable than .
those which he really had in view. The present was a measure
not of any considerable magnitude, but proceeding upon ttfe,
same principle with that which was passed into a law in the last?
Sessions. He concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill ;!
to repeal so much of the 10th and 11th 01 W'illiani andNLry, aAe.
took away the benefit of Clergy from persons convicted of
privately stealing in shops, warehouses, stables, &c. to thir.t
value of five shillings.
The CHANCELLOR of the Excii EVER did not rise to oppoie
the motion, and whatever credit he thought due to his Learned
Friend, he did not think that should influence his opinion.
But his Learned Friend had given a degree of prejudice to his
opinions, and so equivocal a proof of the beneficial effects of the,
former Act, as to him might be directly demonstrative of 1
contrary effect, for offences of a much greater magnitude might'
have been committed, inasmuch as there
twas less terror of tne
capital punishment.
Mr. DAVIES GIDDY wished someintermediate mode cad he
adopted.
Mr. PONSONSY warmly supported the measure:,
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL opposed it, on. the gronnds, tri.at
the law as it now stood was applicable W all its purposes.
Sir SAmort ROMILLY, in explanation, disclaimed all merit
in the line of conduct he had pursued. lie was rather surprierd
to hear the measures he had the henour of proposing attrihuteti
to mere humanity. He begged it might be distinctly understood.
that he had acted solely from a feeling of duty, 'lnd froin
consciousness that he was consulting the general. wishes of the
country.
Leave was then given to loing 'in the Bill, according to the
motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Leave was also given on two subsequent motions made by
Sir Samuel Romilly to bring in Bills to repeal so much of the
Act of Queen Anne as made it death, without benefit of the-
,. Clergy, to steal to the value of forty shillings in an out-house or
dwelling-house ; and to repeal certain clauses in the Act of the
24th of George 111. relating to capital punishments.

0 i*NO

FRIDAY

Exa. U.

Sir W. Pl. umrit presented a Petition from the City of Lon.
don against the Western Junction Canal Bill. Ordered to lie
on the table.
Sir CHARLES PEICR brought in a Bill to enable the Phenix
Insurance Company to sue and be sued In the name of their
Secretary.--Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second
time.

POPULATION BILL.
Upon the motion of Mr. Ruse the House went Into a Com-
mittee on the Population Bill
After some conversation between Mr. Rost: and Sir JOAN
NEWPOx a., the Resolutions were agreed to, and the Report or-
dered to be received on Monday.
SUPPLY.
The Committee of Supply was postponed to Alonday next.
Mr. Le SIIIN o•ro N brought up the Report of the Scotch Cre-
ditors' Bills. The amendments ware agreed to, the Rill ordered
to be engrossed, and read a third time on ;NI unday next.
Mr. ROSE brought in the Silk Regulation Bill, which was
read a first, and ordered to be read a second titre on ivionda.
Mr. Wit.Lism WYNNE obtained leave to bring in a Bill to
facilitate the Discovery of Bribery and Corruption in Elections
for Members of Parliament.
WAYS AND MEANS.
Certain papers respecting the Consolidated fend were rot-
ferred to the Committee of Ways and Means.
The House then went into a Committee of Ways and
Means.
Mr. WHARTON moved the following Resolutions for hie
Majesty's Supply.
856,760, being the surplus of the Consolidated Fund remain.
ng it .
the Exchequer, after.paying off.the 4,500,000- Exchequer
Bills uf 1810.
8,000,0001. War Taxes.
1, 500,e001. to be raised by Exchequer Bills, for the service Of
Great Britain.
10,500.0001. by Exchequer Bills fur the same service.—The
Malt Duties.—The Pension, Sugar and Excise I)utiel4.T. •
1,000,0001. for the service of Ireland,. to be raised. Treasurf
Bills.
• The Resolutions were asreed to, and the Report ordered to
he received unMondily, oti.which day the Committee obtained
leave to sit agaiii.
ane. Goulborne preiented a return of the number of ma les
tr ernides convicted, and Ordered fur transportation. Ordered
to lie on the table.

I

120

IvIr.;WA4tD rose to Indy& containing parti-
Culars concerning the recent transactions in Ireland. He was
'urged to this measure by the objection which the Right Hon.
:Gentleman opposite had manifested to give any other commu-
nications to the House than those already submitted to it. The
'House could not but be aware that the Convention Act was an
Act the adoption of which necessity alone could justify. He
acknowledged that, upright as the Right Hon. Gentleman's (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) conduct might be upon this and
other occasions, he could not place much dependance upon his
efforts for the benefit of Irel intl. The step which was taken by
Gavel (Intent had not been preceded by any information to the
House ; and the paper which had been submitted in justification
Douse
their measure, contained nothing whatever calculated to de-
fend the violencelg its operation ; it merely stated that a delega-.
tion bxisted in Ireland for two years. The mere fact of the ex-
istence of a delegation was certainly no justification ; and
even if it was true that the delegation was of an -improper na-
tpre, it should be known that mild measures might to have been
adopted before recourse had been had to those of severity. The
paper which occasioned the enforcement of the Convention Act
contained nothing alarminge the persons to whom it alluded
appeared to be anxious to effect the object of their meeting by
legal means. .)t was possible that Ministers might be in pos-
sessiqn of protik^s of a aiischievous intention displayed among
them, but the House was ignorant of any such circumstance.-
-Six weeks had elapsed befoee the paper was noticed by the
• Government, before it excited any public feeling. No mention
had beer. made °fire-land in the speech of the Regent, with re-
aped tq its political circumstances, and yet the paper must have
been issued at the time of the appointment of the Prince to. the
Regeucy. Such a ease indeed Was strange, especially when it
was considered how well disposed the Prince had always been
to that country. Ireland was, since the Right Hen. Gentle-
- man's administration more and more a part of the verekness of
: this country, and loss of its strength. He conceived it to be
most testerial in the present state of Ireland, that the House
should thew an interest in. its concerns. He would declare it
pis most earneat advice to the Catholics, that they would abstain
m all violence, end he woeld not in a greater degree reCem-
eene..l toleration inch • existing Government, than he would for-
' .trance in them. H. then moved' that an humble Addi;ess
oeld b- pre enttd to the Regent,r, to order copies of all such
le- • rm I.e n- as had been received respecting the recent tranSec-
e! sel Ir :and. . •
Yu kiXll;:.cordially agreed with the Hon. Gentleman with
.•
- otect to .fht• adoption of tolerant measures. He however
snaierially .idtered front him in many parts of his speech. He
represeeted the preset.t system adopted by Ministers relative th
- the t'azitot;c.s in the degreetonciliatory; but the speech
lit-of tee 7amt. Gentlemen shenldheve been confined, to pointing
tae detects of the information before the I louse, instead of
Inesecliug out into subjects which certainly were not calculated
present di,stoission.. would state the knowlege which
asreenreent had upon the present subject. The fact was, that
neiSeqtmece Of the circuleeon of a letter' written by the
Secretory tb the Catholic MerCeig the Prolatnation •seae issued.
!7'.:e..t letter a; leered to he a, violation of the existing laws of
Irelend, teteblished for the purpose of preventing
iet.preper and illegal assemlilies. The Government of Ireland
Lad of tour::; ectt-d with the re:most propriety in proceeding as
rkl4st lead done. Ministers were not in po.,set•sion ()Isiah papers
wueld enable the House to term a decisive opinion upon the
of Lila,' country'wo - resp .ct tq these transactions, and it
oald be censequentlyimFoper to proceed without eunciusive
-for neziee:. He mech lent:elle.] that topics concerning Ireland
• ,
• 'oee-t ._sways taken up with such a tote and temper a, were in
• ci•inion, of mischievous tendeecy, and ended with giving his
• :1: tteave to the niutioh. . •
• hie. Gr.siTT said, that the sehject before the House was
e of tlee tee'ee material iniportanese Every subject in which
.eland was -concerned,- shonid be coesiclered with the most
•.`issieated attention, inasmuch asjEngland could not exist,
„eedent of -that. cesuntry. Parliament should particularly
tee Catholics of Ireland, for that body was a sort of
t error to vei:ich tire I tome of Comm Ons was a guardian. A
~ ;ceder attachment 3hoU4,d te showed to them. An assurance of
• .-eopott and aulelgencee and if it was not the intention of Mini-
eeers to glee ail they reettired, the poisibility of distorting the
•. mot:re or eiimit4ishing the 'present number Of their rights should
be effectually remoucd. ,The communication between 'the
,stn ;e and the .should 'be easy, open, and general;
, not •the-sell;e 9f a county,- but the sense of the
es...re:atty. 4,ltiWas Mog'sli‘attg'e that a law 'should be resorted
. • which had as origin in falsehoetl, and which owed its
• s.eal to spleett—an act „lihich went to tut off all cem-
Auication between Parliattient atidi the •Catholies, espe-
etiaJ.:y since the Union. right of petition should
y •14..); .41:!. ttilkst'and Mott general

was • the sense of the Catholics
_ not thernselves ? and for' the .pieee
pose of ascertaining that sense the means of general-communicee
tion should be open. He would acknowledge it his opium,
that if a meeting was formed of a lawless nature, measures of
prevention should be resorted to. A Nationel Convention in
Ireland would be an ill-advised and illegal proceeding; but even
if any tendency to such a measure appeared in the conduct of the
Catholics, the exercise of the law should be of most mild oper-
atione-it should be so applied as not to convey a sting with it,
and turn its point against them. A monitory corrective should
be administered—a parental, instead of an adverse—an amicable,
instead of an hostile conduct, should be adopted towards them.
but the meeting deserved not the epithet applied to it. It had
been described as hostile and lawless. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man who had used such language, did not, by such soothing and
gentle phraseology, display the parental care; and those supe-
rior good manners, which it was the duty of Ministers always
to observe. In 1809 all the Catholic Nobility were appointed a
Committee to manage the Catholic Petition. This was a dele-
gation, and why was it not said that such a meeting was illegal?
None of those were ordered to be arrested. Nere was an im-
mense blunder.-why was, not the Chairrran of that Committee,
Lord •Fingal, accused of illegal practices ? Because as in this case
it would be a groundless accusation against:the most loyal and
the best men in the country. He knew Mr M'Domel, the Chair.
man of the Committee, to be a man of unimpeachable character
and of excellent understanding. He felt much joy in observing,
that the mettle of Irish talent was displayed in the broad day,
and disdained to lurk in caverns to brood over conspiracies.
The House was now contending against an inveterate and deep
rooted calamity. It had degraded its equals, and raised a lasting
alarm, which would in every moment of :he difficulties of the
country, start up to affright and discomfit it. It had sunk a set
of people below their place in society, and nature would not be
inactive in her energies to reassume her rights and regain her
level. The time would come when many of that body would be
voting in that House who were now fighting and dying in the
service of England.
Mr. PARti ELL supported the motion.
General 'Loi.Tt: s opposed the motion, as did Sir HENIT
MoNToomety.
The CHANceeemt of the E;cuequen lamented that any dis-
putes like those he had now listened to, should have taken place
but it was a sad truth when, that any weition concerning the
Catholics of Ireland came to be discussed, it constantly, at a
wide sweep, brought in all the arguments of emancipation, ac-
comp hied with the wonted bitterness of dispute, and remem-
brance of woe's, which could not be thought on without regret.
Much did he condemn that system elf holding forth in argument
the degraded condition of Irelands in her Catholic claim&, when
there existed no prospect of bettering her condition by the debates
that it could only tend to hold up the rancotir of thwarted views,
and stimulate and nourish that natural propensity to outrageous
feeling which public questions always excited. To be told of
Ireland's distress was a natural emanation from the subject, but
nto couple it With emancipatio was departing from the business
of the House. They had laws which rermi-led tleen to assem-
ble, and to frame petitions; yet an Hon. Gentleman hadsail,
that we are groping among the dark recesses of the Statute Book
for obsolete laws to direct against the Catholics ; but the Com-
mittee did not seem to consider so, and they had an eye on the
rigour of the laws. Ile nerved that lenient measures should be
adopted; and stated that the. Duke Richmond was instructed
to use mild and conciliatory measures; and he was convinced
that the Duke would not neglect any thing which might tend to
reconcile disputes. His Royal Highness the Regent lamented
that the law was obliged to be put in force, and hopes that mild
aed accommodating measures will ha used bt the Government
of Ireland.
Mr. WHITBR ?MI supported the motion.
Mr. FULLER did not mean to detain Tianse wiq3 many
observations; he did not trouble them very tn er ten ; but hen he
did, they all knew be spoke his mind petty freely. He could
not bear to hear it said upon a mere Opposition, ehet his Ma-
jecty's Ministers came into power by sealing a blial of honour
not to concede any thing to the Catholics, such an insinuetfon
ought riot to he permitted for a moment. It was 'well known
that the Gentlemen opposite (the Oppositioh) always wished to
retain their power, and when they did retire, they went sneaking
out as much as any men in the world. With respect to the
question inimedietely before the House, he rememb-Ted that
, thirty years ago, they were sweating and fueling like a steam-
engine, and asing 66 Would you not grant them arms in your
detente ?" They did so, and what wag the consequence l these
very arms were turned against themselves In open rebellion
—there was something between the two countries .so
uncongenial—(A cry of Order ! Order !j—Well let them
try the' expedient; be did not care whether they were Catholics
e or Chinesc) or what they were, that now stood in hie-triky:

THE NATIONAL REGISTER
%, 11 mariner. In what manner I
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nntatng further parti- to he collected if not from
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