The National Register.
London, England, 1816-05-26 00:00:00

421

J

showed the neecsidtv for some nnieuiltnent in the condition of
the timer miters. 'hie Hon. Gentleman then nioveil for a se.
heel Committee, to enquire into the slate of Education in the

Metropolis.
Mr. WItOTTIEFLEY perfectly agreed with the propor.ition. and
thought that inuelt good might be ileri‘ erl from the charitable
donations for the purpose of education in the different parishes.
which he thought might be available for every desired purpose,
without amilstance from Parliament. lie hada Bill to bring in,
on the %object in .1 t. w days.
Mr. %idertniill ATKIN., agreed in the sentiments of the last

Spenker.
The Committee was then appointed.
Mr. scut Tr presented a Petition from the English Catho-
lics. It was vouched in most moderate terms ; requesting only
that Parliament would grant v. hat might lie deenied perfit•tly
consistent with the safc.tv of the Protestant Church.
Mr. Cip el-TAN brotigin tlirward the annual Irish Catholic
Qnestion, and concluded an elognent spee.sli by moving, "That
the [loose should, early in the 'test Sessi ~,,, take into its seri-
ous consideration the present state of the. Laws respecting the
Catholics of Great Britain and Ireland, with a view to the
adoption of sut•la measures us should tend to the getteral
faction of all classes of Iris Majesty's subjects." Lord Castle-
reagh supported the motion ; hot still insisted on the itecessity
elI
Owning securities from the Ciithelies ; and only Mr. Peel
and Sir G. Mill opposed the 1111 l hielt was, however. re-
jected on a die ision of 172 to 1 t I.—Adjuuriud.
WurtesDAY, 3IAv
A petition was presented from tfestininster, signed by
1400 trailers. against the Bazaars. The District Surveyors'
Hilt was lost on a division, by do against 12.
Mr, News, ee moved fur a Committee to he appointed to
consider the petitimu on the table on the sulsject of Ty thes ;
and to report to the Hulse ou the expediency of enabling
owners and occupiers of land to make a commutation by pe-
cindery means.
Mr. Comex seconded the motion with great satisfaction.
He consith•red the subject of tythes as one which celled loud-
lv for inquiry; such was, he believed, the general feeling
if' all 'mimosa at all connected with agriculture. He had
heard it assertetl, that if any change sl Id take place in the
presetat system of tythes, if any commutation system were in-
troduced, the agriculturist would pay more than lie did at
present. He was of opinion, such would really be the ease ' •
but still, the general feeling of the people would he consulted
in the adoption of such a measure; and he Wilt persuaded, it
would give universal satisfaction.
Mr. Sulam, of Cambridge, and Mr. Rose, doubted the
efficacy of ,appointing such a Committee.
Mr. BRAND said, this was a question of immense importance.
as it effected the morals and habits of the people, through dis-
sensions with the clergy; but the subject was not at present
brought forward on grounds sufficiently comprehensive. For-
merly any question of this sett was considered by the clergy
a: hostile to them. Such feelings, however, he was confident,
did not now exist in the (mutiny; and lie believed there was
very littie oppression when tythes were in the hands of the
clergy. Still they we re akW of inconvenient joint tenancy. ;
am) any means of improvement would be advantageous to the
interests of agricultni c, to morals, anal to the church establish-
ment itself. Connotation was a el .ily practice. in enclosure
hills. .A general measure might be productiv cof great benefits.
Mr. V NRITTA PT considered the subject as one of the great-
est importance; and one, limn tke vatiety of interests it em-
braced, of the greatest ebfficulty. He (lid not consider that
the time of the House, or of a Committee, could be better cm-
eloyed than in the enquiry; but he was fearful, it the Hon.
-Gentleman's motion WAS adopted as it now stood, it would
create considerable alarm, and do butt little service. Ile
shotild, therefore, propose an amendment to the latter part of
the motion, which, when amended, would stand thus:—" That
the Committee be appointed to take into consideration the pe-
titions on the table, on the subject of tythes ; and to report to
the House how far it might be expedient to allow proprietors
of tythes to grant leases under new regulations."
Sir W. Sourer defended the Clergy, and the present system
of Tythes. 'the Clergy, he contended, exerted their tights in a
manner the most moderate ; yet such was human stature, that
those who had to pay, would always consider they paid too
smolt. He lead no objection to adopting the recommendation
of his Right lion. Friend, and giving to the proprietors of
Tythes power to grant leases tinder due and specific regula-
tions.
Lord Cesrtart EACH observed, if lie could for an instant iina-
gine there was any intention of invading the rights and property
attic Church, and of the po-sessora of tythes, he should in-
dandy and strongly oppose it; hut if it was merely intended
to enquire how rights and pris lieges belo sing to certain indi-
viduals might be best exercised for their on n advantage and
fur the adv aataee if the Public, then he should consider it as
a proper subject of Parliamt Mat y enquiry. lt. rite enquiry of
the Committee was to he limited to the expediency or inexpe-
diency, the possibility or iir pie-041)&111y, of allowingor empower-
ing the proprietors of ts dies to grant leases, lie would not op-
pose the appointment of such a Co 11111 l ittee.
Mr. Brume: nest vv;sheil it to he understood, that nothing
could be farther from the intention of himself and his Hon.
Friends, than to attempt to question the right of the Clergy to
their Tythes. Church had a right to one-tenth of the
produce at the soil, as absolute and inviolate as the right of the
proprietor of the land to the other nine-tenths. All that they
surged was, that some regulation should take place; and that
the Church should not claim one-tenth of the capital laid oft
upon the land, as well as oueeenth of the produce. This had
been held right by our ancestors: in the reign of Edward M.
--a time when no very tree modes of thinking existed as re-
garded the rights of the Church—the Laity seized the Church's
rents of all lands previously barren upon which capital was, fur
the first time then expended ; and since that time madder had
been exempted from tytke. With respect to the preseat mo-
tion, he felt a prejudice, supposing nothing was to arise out of
it. lie could not agree with his Right lion. Friend (Sir W.
Scott), that the operation of the measure upon the agricultural
tythes would teed to perpetual litigation among the Clergymen
and their parishioners : on the contrary, he thought it would
tend to encourage the laying out of capital on land, which eon-
seemingly must benefit the Church. The more he considered
the subject, the more he was CailViliCiel it was full tune fur the
Itemise to interfere, and settle the question, for the benefit of
all patties.
V. Patti. expressed his hope that the views of the Committee
would be extended to the consideration of the necessity of coni•
muting tythes iu lrt la el.
Lot d .vin Tots COI a dcred any commutation of the clergyman's
tythes fur land calculated to make the clergyman too much of a
landed proprietor or a farmer. The amendment he thought
too confiaed in its amine : for the fact was, that Perhaincii.
were vet), year in the habit of recognising the principle of
!rnting; and a Committee se cont.", .d in • IL-S
object would pro-
-duce he new iefurtuatiou whate:s tr.

THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

Mr. LESLIE FOSTER, Mr. D. BROWN F:, and Sir J. Nt.wrotrr,
spol‘e at some length on the state of tythes in Ireland.
Mr. Prit›Tuts thought that the motion did not go tar enough,
and a more extrusive measure might to be adopted. He hail
uo
Ill'4itilltlllll ill sift, inn, that the church did not at this moment re•
ceive oust fourth of its actual richt.
Mr. gvr NAN Fhuttl replied; when the original motion was
negatived, and the amendment carried, without a division.
Mr. SHAW moved for a Select Committee to enquire into tht•
shoe of the Laws in Ireland respecting illicit distillation, which
was agreed to, and a ContiMttee appointud.
Mr. VANOITTA 'IT having moved the Order of the Day for
going into a Committee on the Soap Bill, a conversation ensued;
during %skids the I.:west:l.l.mm of the Event:nut:li stated his
intention of mai.ing the duties on hard and soil soaps equal.
This, with 1111 l e other amendment., iti the measure, mikes it, it
if understood, more acceptable to all purtieb.--The Bill then
welt through a Committee.—Adjourned.

'rat RSIDAY,MAY 23.

Mr. Bastard took the oaths and his seat for Devonshire.
In answer to u question from Mr. Brougham, respecting the
accommodation to be given under the Income Tax Act.
Mr. VANtErrART said, the pressure ot other matter had
prevented him from bringing the subject before the House ;
but it was intended to divide the payments due—one half to
be paid in J sly, and the other in 1 ary neat
Mr. H. Davis presented a petition from the West InS•ia
merehauts, planters, and others, resitting in Bristol, against the
Bill for a general registration of slaves in the West Indies,
which was ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. Wthnt.nrottee stated, that it was not his intention to
press the Bill this session hey I the first reading ;in conse-
quence of a declaration of I d)rd Castlereagh, that negotiations
were now pending between his .Majesty's Ministers and the
other powers chiefly interested in the Slave Trade (meaning,
of course, Spain and Portugal), for the effectual extinction of
that infamous traffic.
Lord CASTLEREAGH, in his remarks on the proposed fill,
expressed Isis distinct assent to the principle of it, but thought
it should be left to the discretion and justice of the Colonial
Legislatures.
The CHANCELLOR of the ExettLettEß, after alluding to the
arrangements made with the Bank, fur the advance of three
millions, gave notice, that ou Monday next he should tale a re-
view of the general Ways and Means for the year. Ihe Right
Hon. Cwot. stated, that there would he no loan.
Mr. Serjeant OsisLow, having first taken a review of the
laws re ;elating the rate of Interest, w hilt had been passed at
various periods of our history, contended that these laws were
passed in times of profound ignorance ; that their emninnation
only promoted usury ; and that the price of money ought not
to In fixed any more than laud. He concluded My toot ing for
leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the laws that regulate the rate
of interest on leans of money.
The CHANCELLOR of the Excitant:en stated, that after Para
!lament had borrowed eleven hundred millions, ler the ex-
istence of the laws in question, and the fait It of their coatimumee,
it would neither he wise our just to repeal them at once, and
without due deliberation. A sudden and violent change sit
the present moment might shake the established system of
money transactions.
After some discussion, sir. Sericant Onslow withdrew his
notion till a more fa vonrable opportunity.
Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY illtlLOlHeed his promised statement of
the Persecution of the l'rotestants in the South of France, and
brought forward a great mass of interesting and important
matter, sheaving the horrid atrocities committed on the Pro-
testants, and the apathy with which the French Government
passed them over without punishing the perpetrators. The
Hon. Gentleman concluded a speech of near three hours by
moving an Address to the Prince Regent our copies (Wall cor-
respondence between the British and irench Governments on
the subject.
The motion was opposed by Lord CASTLEREAGH, on the
ground that this country had no right to interfere with the in-
teraal affairs of France ; and finally negatived without a divi-
sion.—Adjourned at one if clack.

FRInAY, MAY ?A.
The CHANCELLOR of the Excise:swan having moved the
third reading of the Soap Bill,
Sir M. W. RIDLEy would not let the Rill pass w without sonic
observations. He considered it particularly oppressive to ma-
nufacturers of hard Soap. If the measure were proceeded
in, there would be no pot-ash to be procured from Russia next
year.
Mr. Bic OVOHANI wished to know whether any great addition
%%Amid be made to the revenue by this Bill.
Tht CHANCEL ton of the Faun:guise said, that this Bill was
certainly introduced, at first, to protect the Whale Fisheries;
but that it had been found it would produce considerable in-
crease to the revenue, which he estimated at 130,0001. He
then entered into a general view of the effects of the Bill on
manufacturers and the public, and stated, that it would not be
felt in a higher ratio than threepence a head in diffment fami-
lies. The price of soap would not be raised by the measure
more them eight or nine shillings per hundred weight, and the
whale duty would only be 30s.
Mr. Cu ItWEN contended, that the effect of the Bill would be
felt in the ratio of Ys. on each family.
Mr. ithotutwis said, that the answer of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman proved that, instead of a regulation, this was merely a
tax Bill. 'the manufacturers had had all the regulation part
of the measure taken otthy their different applications, and the
tax was left to be paid by the coasumers only. The Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer had said that the effect of the Bill would
be felt only in the ratio of threepence a head, but threepence
added to threepence made sixpence, and two sixpences made a
shilling. It was by these degrees that a heavy tax was laid on
articles of the first necessity.
Mr. Rose defended the Bill, as it was impossible to procure
any revenue without taxing objects of cameral consumption •
He would have preferred the Property Tax, but that had been
rejected; as it was necessary to have a revenue for the coun-
try, articles of consumption must be taxed.
Mr. LITTLETON thought the arguments used on the other
side of the House fallacious, and deprecated those side-pi aises
given to the Property Tax.
The question was put and carried without a division. The
Bill was then read a third time and passed.
Sir M. W. RIDLEV, having seen that the Marquis of Wor-
cester had been appointed a Lord of the Admiralty, wished to
inquire of the Noble Lord opposite (Castlereagh), whether lie
t monied his both:neon. commission in the 17111 Hussars, now
in Fiance. He conshicred thor.e two appointments as ineora-
patible; the duties of the one or the other st be neglected,
i they were held by the same person.
Lottl TLERE4OII was not prepared to give an answer.
Lord ALTMORP invited Witt it the Alec of President of the
Board of Controul, whi. h had been left vacant tor three
months, as though its duties could be di•peused with, would be
filled up ?

MAY PA.

Lord C.S.STI.EttLAtaI replied, that it would be tilled up in
short time. He had tilled that situation himself; and his opinion
was, that it was a most laborious one.
Mr. Bitnenll 01 observed, that a hen the Noble (mid held it,
he was also Secretary of State ; sit that it was not astonishing
that lie should tied his double duties laborious.
Mr. TIERNEY moved an Amcnilitient in the Civil List Bill,
which went to preclude the Crown from coining to Parliament
fur rel:el (in the event of any future excess ocem ring), till the
funds exclusively at the disposal of the Sovereign, the Admi-
ralty Droits, eze. should have: been applied to meet the same,
so tar as they should go. Hg objected to the appointment of
a new °Meer under the Lord Chamberlain, Lord Steward, and
Master nt the Horse, to common! the Civil List Expenditure,
with an income of 41,500 per annum.
, ,
IN JA ...7ASTLER EACH contended, that the Bill now before the
Hunse brought the Civil List more under the jurisdiction of
Parliament, than it could be brought by the Amendment of the
Right Hon. tieutleman. The new Officer, be thought, %mild
be found if great importance; and this had been the solemn
and deliberate opinion of the committee appointed to inquire
into the affairs of the Civil List. lie further stated the Prince
Regent to have directed that allow sixty offices in the depart-
ments of the Lord Chamberlain and Lord Steward should not
be filled up when they next fall vacant. These offices are
therefore virtually suppressed.
After a loug coaversation, the House divided upon the amend.
meat.
Ayes, 1 10.—Noes,230.—Majority in favour of the Bill, 111.
The Report was then agreed to, and the Bill ordered to ha
read a third thue.--Adjourued to Mond.iy.