The National Register.
London, England, 1821-06-03 00:00:00

Mr. M. A. TAYLOR said he could not withdraw his
motion.
The ATTORNEY 0 r.NERA observed, that the plans
proposed went to model the whole of the Court of Chancery.
As to the business, there was Hut that delay which was on
puted ; there were no bankrupts' petitions, and no cause set
down last term 'indisposed of. The business bad been gut
through with great rapidity and aatisfactium
Mr. LOCKHART was astonished that any one coati] say,
that to call on the house to consider the question next session
would be to cast an imputation on the court. The enquiries
in the courts of equity were surrounded with difficultlea ;
they were attended with enormous expences ; all England
knew these facts to be true. The institutions requited
revision, and to say so was not to cam auy reflection
on the court, or those practising in it ; but certainly the
motion did not merit the stigma of the " previous question,"
—if met at all, it ought to be by manly negative.
Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW could not agree to the motion,
on the single ground that there bad been delay in the
Court of Chancery. He agreed in the necessity of the
atnended motion for the previous question.
Mr. W. SMITH supported the motion, and thought from
the declaration of the noble lord, that the wonder was
that there was nut mote appeals, was in favour of inquiry
and change. (Hear, hear.) It was admitted that the
Chancellor's Mainstay only prevented more delay and
greater difficulties.
After some further observation the house divided on
the motion. The numbers fur it welts 32—against it 56.
Lost by a majority of 4.
Mr. MA II ERLY then bronght forward his motion re-
specting Irish Exchequer and Treasury Rills; the hon.
member urging that the bills of both countries ought to
be placed ou a similar footing—that no undue advantage
ought to he given to either.; and submitted a motion, the
effect of which was to seetat e such impartiality.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained
the system of these bills, and contended that there ex-
isted no intentional advantage ou either side.
The house eventually divided ou the anotiou. The
numbers were—ayes 31, Noes 64.
THE GRAMPOUND BILL—Lord MILTON moved, that
house should agree to the Lord's amendments on this bill.
Mr. WYNN wished to add an umendineut to those of
their lordships, namely, to divide the county of York, and
to provide that each division should send two members,
instead of the whole county sending four, as proposed by
the bill.

Air. S. WORTLEY objected to the bill altogether as
amended by their lordships. lie declared his &termina-
tion to take the sense of the house on the amraidnient.

Lord LONDONDERRY was in favour of the amend-
ments to a certain degree, and would rather agree with
Own than risk the loss of the bill. He could not agree
with his lion. friends' Yorkshire feelings, that the tither
branch of the legislature had no right to iiiii!rfele with the
form of representation adopted by the Douse of Com-
mons.. _ . . . . . .

Lord J. RUSSEL agreed with the noble lord in opinion,
that it would be desirable to piths the bill, to 'hew the
people were determined to do something in compliance
with the wishes of people; and thei elute, although the
amendments were destructive both of the noble lord's
opinion and his own, still he would support them rather
than tick the bill. The anieudinems were ultimately
adopted.
The bill was then ordered to be carried back to the
lords. _ .

Lard MILTON, iu consequence of this bill having now
passed, gave notice that it was his intention to-morrow to
move for leave to bring in a bill for the more convenient
taking of the poll, iii the election of knights of the shire
for the county of York. (Hear.)
The ConsTairrioNAL AstioCiaTion.—The Marquis of
LONDONDERRY having moved, that the report of the
committee of supply be now brought up,
Mr. BROUGHA:vI rose to call the attention of the
pause once more to a society, the existence and nature of
which he had occusion upon a former evening to bring
tinder its notice. He held in his hand a letter which had
been diets dialed among its members, and which purported
to he a copy of another letter, a circular. It Caine from
"The Bt idge-street Committee-" And what was their
object ? Fit st, to expound to the magistrates the law of
the land in cases of libel. They enclosed in this circular
o copy of a pamphlet, composed under their auspices,
and costmining their expositions, their digest of this law,
for the guidance of the magistrates. (Hear.) But the
object which they had in this circular ventured to avow
was sot to be passed over. (Mr. Brougham then read
Rum a paper)—" Sir,—lii pursuance of the 4th resolution
of the eas"—but the house ought to kuow that this
was signed by • Mr. J. IS. Shaw, who styled himself
" lloinuary Assistant Secretary," was dated No. 6,
Bridge.street, Ulackfriass, and addressed to the ningis-
tiates—(lieur, hear)—to the magistrates of England !
" I am directed by the committee to transmit you a copy
of the address of this society. In puisnanee of the 4tlt
resolution of the address," (the magistrate being thus
desired to take notice of it)—" the committee have found
it nee( ssaty to institute several prosecutions against per-
sons engaged in the sale of lifallous and seditious works,
sonic of which prosecutions have been abandoned upon
the parties cup; easing their contrition." In God's nestle,
to whont—to whom were they called upon to express
" their contrition i" To Mr. J. B. Sharp mid lids coin-
millet, forsooth ! (A laugh.) Bat this was not all: the
association was nut sati.diill with convictions, with the
surrender upon oath of the dangerous and disaffected
venders of seditious publications, and with these expres-
sions of contrition to Mr. J. B. Sharp ; but the parties
were requited to enter into an engagement never again to
drive the same nails.. (A laugh.) And now he (Mr.
Brougham) should like to be informed, if there were then
present in the house any member a protector of this
constitutional association. (Hear.) He defined to know
upon what authority it was allowed, under such a govern-
:tient as this, where regular offices and forms mac pie-
set veil, where there were too such law officers 118 the
A (tut ney and Solicitor General, hitherto not slow to de-
tect, our remiss to proceed against such °deuces; while
there was a Simi etas y of State nut tardy, up..ii 4 lounce
..ecasiun, to expound the law (hear, hear), and slot back-
ward in issuing his cirenlars too
likewise to the magistrates of this kingdom (hear, lit ar,
hear)—a Secretary of State not backward in ransmittisig
Isis expositions upon matte's of this kind, iu a way which,
thongli it had been considered by some not to be very
legal, was now admitted to be such by the emu is ; iwd
a Inch at all times, its lice eye even of those who must
doubted its legality, would be held a much mum regular

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THE NATIONAL REGISTER

and constitutional proceeding than this; in short, in a
country where there was law officers, he wished to know
by whose authority it was that this self-constituted, this
unknown association, came forward with the ',limiter ad-
d►ess to the magistrates. tie thought he had now done
quite enough in mentioning this matter once more to stop
the course—to say no worse—the gloss impropriety or this
association. None of the least evils of that association was
the circumstance of itt nnuthering among its members
sornewhare about 40 peers of the realm (hear, bear, hear)
who were thus lending their names to a set of men capable
of using them for these purposes. He would beg to
know what chance of a fair trial would a poor man have,
before a jury taken nut of the neighbourhood of some
great mall, a member of this association, or who might
ever happen to be part 01 his tenantry. The Attorney
General had the power of suppressing the proceedings of
this society by entering a mile prosegui upou all their in-
diatments. . .

Mr. SCAR LETT, after the speech of his hon. and learned
friend, felt enabled to add but little to his exposit of the
mischievous which might result from this association, with
however good motives individuals might have enrolled thrus.
selves in it. Where the Attorney General was concerned
the proceeding was regular; where the party aggrieved pro.
secuted, the defendant knew his prosecutor, la these cases
on ill- contrary, in witirlr the constitutional association in-
terieled, the prosecuturs were unknown; uo names were
avowed, and saute of them might be upon that very special
jury which should try the Wience charged against the delete.
bear.)—The hon. and learned gent. coucluded
by saying that there was nu person who had considered the
question in a lebal or constitutional point of view, who did
not concur in condeioniugsuch an association. . .

Mr. WAIIRE expressed his surprise that this association,
having been pronounced illrgal by what he considered the highest
law authority in that house, no member of his Majesty's go-
vernment had offered a word of explanation on the subject.
The Marquis of LONDON DERRY observed, that nit very
-far back in the history of the country, when associations had
been foamed, and great names subscribed to those associations,
for the prosecution of individuals, not indeed for the cold crime
N' libel, but on a charge for murder (cheers from the ministerial
benches), and lie considered that the influence of those associa-
tions arid of those great names were as much calculated to preju-
dice the minds of the jurors against the parties who might have
been tried, as much as in the case to which the hub and learned
gent. (Mr. Ilmughani) referred.
Si, J. SEBRIGIIT expressed his entire cuncurronee in the
opinions which had been given by die hon. and learned gent.
respecting the self called constitutional association, which has
taken upon itself the task of teaching magistrates their duty.—
Ile for one would dispense with the instruction of such a body,
which he considered as one of the most illegal and unconstitu-
tional which had come to die knowled,ge of that house.
The SOL ICITO It GENERAL said, that in the absence of his
learned friend the Attorney General, he could not avoid making
a tew observations to the house, and he could not avoid also
expressing his surprise that the association should have been
called illegal. Ile differed wholly from this opinion, and would
take it upon himself to say that in that society mere was nothing
illegal, or at all contrary to the spirit of the constitution. Were
they to believe that die association of person, (Or the prosecution
of offences against die law was of itself a violation of that law ?
Ile maintained that such an association was not illegal. Of the
policy of it he begged to he understood as not giving an opinion.
Lord MILTON said, that it had been stated that there were
some eases of libel which it might not be proper for the Attorney
General to prosecute, and he ( Nord Milton) admitted the fact
but this was one of his objections to the •• associatioo," that they
would not make such distinctionsi

The motion fur bringing up the report of the committee of
supply was then out and agreed to.
111 r. BROGOhN brought up the report; and on the question
that the first resolution be agreed to,
Mr. HIJME objected to going at that late hour into the report
of supply. lie therefore moved as an amendment that the
report be received to morrow.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said if the object of litho
hon. member was to adjourn the consideration of the report till
to morrow, he should have no objection.
The report was ordered to be considered to morrow.
The committee on the metropolis police bill was postponed till
Tuesday next.
.Mr..IAM FS moved that the house be counted.
. _ _

Mr..l.sxirrii requested that his bill might be suffered to
pass through the present stage, as it must otherwise be delayed
;01 next session.
The bill was then ordered to be engrossed and read a third
thneon Mondey next.
Ater a few other orders had been postponed,
Mr. JAMES said lie could list sit there, and see public busi-
ness disposed of by so few members; he therefore moved that
the house be counted. There being fewer than 40 members
present, the house adjoumel.
Y, MAY 34.
The Irish prisons' bill went through a committee.—lte-
port 10-morrow.
The public coal-yards' (lrdain') bill nns read a second
tune,

Mr. BROW NLOW presented n petition from Michael
Daly, of A:it:nigh, against the Cidoners' Jury (Ireland) hill.
Mr. H U FCIIINSON wished to know whether the Coro-
ners' Jury Bill was to be pressed forward this SeebiUll j he
thought at would he better to delay.
It. MARTIN replied, that he had nut brought in the
bill at 1.1, oas it kuo,gcst ton ; it was at the request of the county
which he represented.—Aftcr the experience they possessed
he thought lie was not nskiug WO much iii proposing that the
cortmets should give kecurity. There was nut UJ Irish gentle-
man in the house who slid um know that many of the coro-
ners were insolvent. As to postponing the bill he was ready
to acqinesce in the request ; but he could not answer fur
other gentlemen. lie, however, pledged himself, in the
event of the bill not passing this session, lie should move
next session fur a conionittt e of inquiry into the subject.
Mr. D. BROW N E spoke of the insolvent state of many
of the coroners. Galway, tor instance, had been sued tor
0001. a coroner's debt. lie knew of mulling lake a regular
elect ion of coronar iu Ireland.

Mr. BELCHER wns futuur of the pu,tponement of
flit hill till next arA .

Loral hIILTON presented an enorani.usly long petition
ft the ounnufactui ea s, wadstuplets, .of the cloth hall)
so the West 'tiding of 1 c, pa uyisig the house to ropeal
the additional duty oil the impoitution of foreign wool.—
liead and ordcreil to lie on tax utiles _ .

Lurtl IIILTON love 11UlitCo 1114114/11 Wetinehtl.ty, June t,
he .buultt more f‘r Ie the to bring iu u bill to repeal the
additional tax tin the itupot tation of foreign .101.
' Mr. J. P. tiltA NT moved the secuud reading uf
blare rentuvul bill.
Mr. C. W. W YNN said, be was urged tts white:tie the
cause of 3t6 darts, 'marbling of seers, women, and child' en,
the removal or wlww trout the plater of their birth wAs the
"Itivel or this bill. Ilc Inld a pttiti &&&& in (bell Num
plfsllllll4llll.'d StcNbtlt. lf tbu bill um'

In

object would he to postpone that measure for the acrom
phshment of which they 100 l been so desirous. He then pro•
seined the petition ; the object of l lie bill w:is to enable Mr.
Maxwell to transport those slaver Irvin Antigua to a British
settlement on the contiocnt of South America. The peti•
tion was then tend.

Mr. C. W. WYNN moved that the petitioner be allowed
to be heard ageing the second reading of the hill. if he so
thought fit.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, he was quite astonished at the
moton submitted to the house; it was characterised by
'milling but mere novelty. There was 110 precedent for it ;
mud the principle of their proceedings was against it. lithe
precedent were established, what would be the result ?
Whatever question might be brought forward, there would
be penions representing themselves to be the next friends
of parties particularly concerned. If it were established he
should not be surprised to behold at the bar persons des.
cribing themselves to be the next friends of the " msrrprc•
seated classes," and contending for the necessity of Parlia-
mentary reform. Tuey might do It with considerable
ability, as well as at no ordinary length; and if this motion
was to be agreed to, what was to prevent such a proceeding t
Mr. P. BUXTON supported the motion. He did not
think it was sufficient opposition to it, to say that it was a
novel motion. '

The gallery was then cleared for a division. The numbers
were, Ayes 45.—Noes 154 —Motion lost.
Mr. J. P. GRANT, un our re-ents ring the' gallery, was
pobli.ouing the second reading of the bill; it was ordered to
be read a second time to-morrow.
HOLY ALLIANCE CIRCO LA R.—Mr. S. WORTLEY
said, a ithin the last 24 hours there had appeared a circular
from the Monarchs on the breaking up of the congress at
Layb.ich. In the course of it, it alluded to a declaration;
and as tie deemed that declaration to be of the inmost framer.
once to the liberties of this country, he wished to know
whether it was authentic.
Lord LONDONDERRY replied, that such declaration
had been communicated to this Government. It was not
strictly official, but it was authentic.
Mr. S. WORTLEY said, as its authenticity was admitted,
he should on Tuesday next move for its production. (cheers.)
INDEPENDENCE OF PARLIAMENT.—Mr. G. BENNETT
rose, pursuant to notice, to bring his motion for leave to
Introduce a bill for the securing the independence of Parlia-
lucid. In the t nay history of the cuarstouli iiii mid of that
house, particularly in the CIO ly c iiiii esti between the crown
uud the people, they found the house jealous of the introduc-
tion of place-men into that house as evincing the influence
of the cm Nn. To check such exercise of the inflnenee of
the crown various acts were passed. The most memorahle
was the act of settlement, which said that persons accepting
offices under the crown should not hold seats; but clauses of
that Act were afterwards repealed. In the 15th of Geo.
11. Mr. Pelham, whose reign was far too short, a bill was
carried, which was calculated to clear the house of clerks
and underlings, to leave only the peat officers. Bid after-
wards, by inames'ement, such regulations were lessened 111
efficacy. They had in some degree reformed matters with-
out—hut they had not looked at home. They bad voted
that the influence of the house had increased, was Increasing,
avid ought to be disniuished ; but there the matter was suf-
fered to rest. The ministers were supported by their sick
battalion. They carried their motions on one hand, and
succeeded in resisting motions on the other by means of the
creatures of ministers. If be were to examine the recent
majorities, be maintained that they were carried by memo of
those who were at the nod of the ministers. This @hewed
the necessity of cleating the house of clerks find underling.—.
of persons who were there only to enable ministers to
carry on what they called the government. He did MN
know why they should have all the lords of the treasury.—
The Chancellor of the Exchequer and two Lords, one for
England and another fur Ireland might be necessary; but
as to the vice-trratairer of Ireland, fur instance, he did not
know why they were to be luvoured with his company. (A
laugh.) Next came the board of controul. He would retain
the president in the house, and turn out all the rest. Out of
the twine, the rest were useless; in it, they were worse thus
useless. The several boards only nppeared to be useful to
vote fur the ministers as desired. 'three fourths of them
took no part in the debates; they were only aroused by the
rousing calls of question, who were ready for any and all
estimates. They acre dead votes for the ministers; they
might be steady and good adherents of ministers, but they
were bad members of parliament. The admiralty presented
its lords, and this ordnance had four members in that house.—
He proposed to leave two of them. He 'ameba for retaining
the paymaster of the army, &c. but why was the mast. r of
the mint to have a seat in that house ; be did not see that
such officer was useful there or ill the cabinet; though he
should be sorry to le .e the hon. member. And he was at
loos to know silty they should have any of the household
officers. The hon. incitiLsr adverted to other public offices ;
and finally stated that the plain whirl. he proposed would
reject Y 9 out of the 51 public officers and placemen, also
now held seats in the house of coinnions. Ile concluded
with moving fur leave to bring in a bill fur the better securing
of the independence of parliament.
The Him. F. ROBINSON opposed the motion. The
lion. member had saved him the trouble of discussing the
principle of the bill, by admitting that it was advantage-
ous to the public service to have certain ministers of the
crown, athl ecrtaiti officers of government, in that house;
and the questieu then reduced itself into one of
The several officers had frelsiently been the subject of
discnssion in parliament, and the tapedicucyof admit-
ting the huldcts of cerlaiii places to retain their seats had
been acktiowleilged. As to the conseipiences of such ar-
rangement, lie thought it was merely begging the question
to infer that, because certain gentlemen held certain
places, they must necessarily be corrupt.
Mr. DAVIS supported the motion.
The house divided. 'Cite nuothe.s were for the motion
52—against it 76. ltlajority agniiiiit the minion 91.
Moue OF ELFCTION.—Lord MILTON their moved for
leave to bring in a bill to replate elections fur the coitaily
of Tusk. 'lime plait was that the poll should be takes' at
the city of York, nod nt three oilier places iu the comity ;
that the polling shouted continue at illy
Same tone ; that the shored blivuld be assisted by three
vice she' .e.
Tile Mai pus uf LONDON D ItY begged nut to be
consideted mi acquiescing in the plan which) went to let in
SO nut el a 111.410 of taking ihe pion: Motion agreed to.
CRIMINAL Lawso—sir J. NIAUINTOSII inured that
tile Forget y Prinishmeet :Uteri:dims Report be taken
into norther eunsidcrwlit.o on Monday next.
Mr. 111 illUktsT asked, whether the liqf leg of checks
On iOWII ur Cuillitiy baukers tame to be exempted froisi the
upciatitru of ;his bill.

(For Loottowaso. so. ',oft 174. I

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