The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-06 00:00:00

THE SUN LONDON. WEDNESii.A EVENING-) JUNE 6, 1. 85 5

LINES 1,4,7 ASED A'7 FIXED RENTAL.

IMPERIA L PAR L WIEN T.

lar imputations—and that that great chief of the Whig party
—Fox, was stigmatised as the tool of France, and carica-
tured by Mr. Gilray as inviting over the French to Invade
us, he proceeded to deny that because he and his friends
were opposed to this war, they advocated anything so Uto-
pian as that in no case could war be just, inevitable, or
necessary. It may, I think, continued the hon. member, be
fairly admitted that we have all a common interest in 'dote
—that is, the interest of our common country. The only ,
object we have at heart, and the only object- we have a
right to consider in the discussion of this question, is the
honest and just rights and interests of England. (Hear.)
We may as individuals desire to act philanthropically to
all the world—as _Christians we may wish to have the
power to inflict chastisement on the wrong doer, and raise
up the down-trodden jimong,st the nations—but we do not
come here in the House of Commons to vote taxes for car-
rying. out the schemes of universal benevolence, and for
extending the protecting hand to all the oppressed natiuns
of the world. We havo limits to our powers ; but in con-
fining the exercise of those powers to the interests of our
own country we must remember that the best interests of
England are. in harmony with the interests of the whole
world. (Hear.) That being the case, let us, I say, throw
to the winds all the declamatozy balderdash and rubbish
we have heard from the Treasury benches about our fight-
ing for the liberties of the whole civilised world, and
which is brought forward only to suit the purpose of the
moment; for when they come to the confozeucee of
Vienna, to discuss terms of peace, we see how they throw
aside those inflammatory statements by means of which
they have whipped and lashed the country into this war.
(Hoar.) I wish, in the first place, to revert to the speech
of nay right hon. friend the member for Southwark. If
there be an hon. or a right hon. member in this house
whose opinions I have a right to say I understood in past
times, it is his. (Hear.) I say this deliberately, and
my right hon. friend cannot contradict me—(hear, hear)
—that never was a speech made by any member of this
house so utterly at variance with all his previous declara-
tions of opinions as that delivered last night by my right
hon. friend the member for Southwark. (Hear.) The
right hon. gentleman will remember the jeu d'esprit of
Moore, written, I think, in 1833, in reference to the
Whigs, when, after sitting long in the cold shade of the
opposition,, they at length succeeded to the Treasury
benches, and immediately began to follow the principles
of the Tories, their predecessors. lam sure my right hon.
friend will recollect it, for, if I mistake not, we have often
in past times spoken of it together as generally applicable
to men when they get into office. The paint in the jeu
d'esprit I allude to illustrates the position of the Whigs
by a reference to a certain Irishman who went to tke West
Indies, and who, on meeting with aenurnber of blacks who
spoke tolerably bad English, and whom he mistook there-
fore for countrymen of his own, said to them, "Whit,
black and curly already!" (Laughter.) We have often seen
metamorphoses on the Treasury benches • we have seen in
very many cases the colour change and the heir grow curly
in a very short time ; but never have we seen colour change
so suddenly into so complete and deep a jet-black—never
hair become so stiff and curly as in the case of the right
hon. member for Southwark. (Roars of laughter.) How I
Should like now to hear that right hon. gentleman read
that admirable speech he made, not on the occasion
merely of the groat pacific debate on the Greek question
(though that would be instructive), wherein he denounced
the meddling policy of the noble lord (Lord Palmer-
ston), but how I should like to hear him read here,
from the beginning to the end, the speech he made in the
streets of Leeds, when we were in danger of going to war
with France on the Syrian business, against oar involving '
ourselves in war for the protection of Turks, Syrians,
Egyptians, Greeks, or anybody else. I should like to see
my right hon. friend now stand upon that table, and be
forced to read that speech from beginning to end, and let
the house contrast it with the speceh he made last night.
(Cheers.) The right hon. gentleman' says the question now
is whether we (that is the Government) are right in refus-
ing to make peace on the terms proposed by Russia. That
is not the whole question. The question in debate—and
which is to be decided by the division to-night—is whe-
ther the plan proposed by the Government was the best
and the only plan that could, under the circumstances, be
devised—(hear, hear)- or whether the difference between
the plan and the plan proposed by Russia was such as to
warrant the recommencement of the war. These are the
questions we have before us to-night. What is the dif-
ference between tho two proposals? Remember, it is the
Government of this country with whom we have now to
deal. They are the parties who are now responsible for the
war; they will have the glory if it succeed, and upon them
must rest the responsibility if it fail. Well, what is the
difference between the proposal of the Government of Eng-
land and the proposal of the Government of Russia? The
question between them was—whether Russia should have
four sail of the line, four frigates, and a proportionate num-
ber of smaller vessels in the Black Sea ; or whether all the
navies of the world should heve free access to that sea, and
Russia be permitted to have as many ships there as she
pleased ? Now, I have been told by a nautical man that if
Russia had accepted your proposal and destroyed all her
worthless ships and her green-timber vessels, and sent an
order to the United States for four first-class line-of-
battle steamships, of 130 guns each, fitted with screws,
four frigates of that elastic character we know the
Americans build, carrying perhaps 70 or 80 heavy guns,
and also fitted with screws, and a proportionate force of
smaller screw vessels—she would have had a far more for-
midable navy in the Black Sea than she has ever yet had
—a force that would be able to compete successfully with
double the naval power she has ever yet maintained in that
sea. (Hear.) If that be the case, what great diminution
of power were we, after all, going to impose upon Russia
for the protection of Turkey ? Bat Russia resisted this
proposal for limiting the number of her ships as a point of
honour, not on the ground of diminishing her force ; she
resisted it on principle. (Hear.) Now, however, the right
hon. gentleman says, if we allow Russia to havefree access
to the Black Sea, and we have also free access to those
waters, we shall be put to an enormous expenditure in
keeping up a large peace establishment for the purpose of
watching Russia in the Black Sea. The right hon. gentle-
man had talked of the probability of a six years' war. Now
let me ask how, long would the interest of the money you
will havo to pay for that six years' war keep up your fleet
to the establishment necessary for watching Russia in
the Black Sea ? It has been said that though
Russia may promise that no aggressive movement shall be
made upon Turkey, yet as we cannot believe anything that
Russia promises we must insist upon her reducing the num-
ber of her ships. But it appears to me that you must go
further than this, for if you undertake to maintain the in-
dependence of Turkey you take a task in hand that cannot
be accomplished without great and permanent expense to
the country—a task which will comperyou to maintain a
large armament continually on the watch in Turkey or in
its immediate vicinity. (Hear, hear.) You say you can-
not believe Russia, and you call upon her for securities.
I would ask the noble lord, the membe for London, what
that great model of whiggery, when the Whigs were in
opposition (Fox), said upon the subject of securities.
When it was said we must havo securities against the
aggression of France, and the Tories of that day were
urging precisely what the noble lord is now urging, Mr.
Fox said, " We have securities—the only securities we can
ever depend upon, namely, the interest of France to make
peace, and if it be her interest she will keep it ; such
is the state of all nations, and it will be so as long as the
world lasts—your only security is your own vigilance." If
you recognise it as the policy of this nation that you will
send armies to fight' the battles of the continent in the
midst of their great standing armies and their system of
conscription, I should be a hypocrite to say that such a
policy was consistent with that moderate peace establish-
ment which it has been the maxim of this countryfcr years
past to maintain. If you acknowledgethat policy you
must be prepared to keep up a large standing army to plade
yourselves in a military point of view on a par with France,
with Austria, with Prussia, with Russia, and the rest, for
if you attempt to follow out such a policy without such
preparation to uphold it, depend upon it the country is
but preparing the way for a most ridiculous and ignomi-
nious exposure of weakness. (Hear, hear.) I would ask
the right hon. gentleman when he last night indulged in
vituperation against Russia, when he told us that Russia
was not to be trusted, whether he was aware that as a
cabinet minister he had himself been a party to an engage-
ment with Russia to interfere conjointly in the affairs of
Moldavia and Wallachia. The right hon. baronet told us
last night that Russia was altogether without shame, and
he attributed to her every sentiment and act that was vile
and dishonourable. Did he not know at the time tnat he,
as a member of the Cabinet was himself a party to the
treaty by which we were to join ourselves with France,
Austria, Prussia, Turkey, and Russia, to be the guardians
of Wallachia and Moldavia, to interfere by force of arms
in her internal affairs, and to form a tribunal that would,
in fact, constitute the government of those Principalities ?
By the treaty contained in the fourth protocol, you have
bound yourselves in terms to become, conjointly with
Russia and the other powers, the government of Wal-
lachia and Moldavia. I will read the protocol to the
house, in order to shoW what engagements you have
entered into with that power, which, because you have
had some newspaper statements of successes and altered
circumstances, it now suits you to vituperate, but
which at other times you can slaver over with your
praises. Here is the seventh article of the protocol, but I
will read also the sixth. It provides, " That there shall be ,
no interference without the consent of the high contracting
parties—England, France, Russia, and Austria--and the
courts will not afford protection in the Principalities to
foreigners whose proceedings may be prejudicial to the
tranquillity of those countries or the neighbouring states;
and disapproving such proceedings, they engage respectively
to take into c onsideration the representations made by
either of the powers, or even by the local authorities."
Thus you are bound, toge:faer with Russia, if the governor
of Bucharest should make a report of some local difficulty,
some local emeute, you are bound, in conjunction with
Russia to interfere and arrange it. And what is the conclu-
sion ? I blush when I read it. Here it is—" On its side the
Sublime Porte engages not to tolerate in the Principalities
foreigners such as are just described ; nor to allow the local
inhabitants to meddle with matters dangerous to the tran-
quillity of their own country or the neighbouring states."
And this is signet! by a Russell ! (Hear.) The name of John
Russell stands at tne foot of these protocols as a party in
le'reventing the inhabitants of those countries from med-
dlingswith their own local matters, if in the opinion of the
powers it should be considered sZeugerous to the tranquil-
lity of their ow,: country. (Hear.) IZark, how changed is
the child and champion of revolution when he breathes the
air of Vienna 1 (Loud cheers.) My hon. friend the member
for Aylesbury Cheers these sentiments, and my' denuncia-
tion of this arrangement. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Layard.)
But has my hon. friend himself in this matter punned that
bold, consistent, and manly Menne which, with his de-
clared opinions, I think he should. It is well known that
the sympathies of my hon. friend were in favour of the
war, because he believed it augured some advantages to
nationalities, that it would tend to the independence, or
at least the good government, of certain states in Wal-
lachia Moldavia, Servia, and the rest. (Hear, hear, from
Mr. eayard.) But has my honourable friend so little
sagacity as not to see that all this waste of blood
and treasure had very different objects in view from the
has
he contemplates? And seeing the course the w
taken, and the terms and arrangements upon whilch the
Government are ready to conclude the war, my
at hon.all friend
ought to denounce it altogether, since it has nothing
to do with those objects for which alone he hasecoolarueaditiyt
was defensible. (Hear, hear.) Before the wt
broke out I was appealed to, by illustrious names, not to
oppose it, because it was looked forward
to by them as
likely to promote the independence of certain down-trodden
communities on the continent. I gave
answer to that request eighteen months
s ago in writing,
and I am not now disposed to recall a single e wtoortadel, ten
al
stated. I warned those persons who
in diplomacy, as
s of enormous
if they expected that a war, originating
this has done, and carried on bee
means
armies, as this has been, and with such men as those
who are at the head of our own Government, and of
the Cloverninente of the cation to giTe direction and

-zs---

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.
Lord BERNERS presented a petition from the clergy
of a deanery in Sointrsetshire, against any change in the
law of marriage as regards the laws of consangainity
and affinity, and also petitions from Staffordshire in
favour of closing public-houses during the whole of the
Lord's-day ; also two petitions from York and Stafford-
shire against the grant to Maynooth.
The Earl of GALLOWAY presented several petitions
from' places in Scotland against the grant to Maynooth,
and also a petition in favour of marriage with a deceased
wife's sister.
Lord BROUGHAM, presented several petitions in
favour of closing public-houses on Sundays.
• THIRD READINGS.
On the motion of Lord REDESDAGE the following
bills wera read a third time and passed :—Birminghatu
Gas, Hartlepool Gas and Water, Kelso Bridge, St.
George's Hai bour Act Amendment, Over Darwen Gas,
Ulster Railway, Londonderry Improvement, Kilmar-
nock Gas, Hyde Gas (No. 3), Liverpool Corporation
Water.

The report upon Pedder's Divorce Bill was read and
agreed to.
LOSS OF HORSES ON BOARD THE MEDWAY.
Lord PANMURE said, in reference to the suljact
brought forward by the noble earl opposite last night—
namely, the, loss of the. horses on board the Medway, he
thought it right to state that, previous to the departure
of the ship, a report had been received from the proper
officers, which stated that the vessel was in all respects
complete, both with respect to ventilation and accom-
modation.

THE TURKISH CONTINGENT.
The Earl of EL LENBOROUGH called attention to
the convention entered into between her Majesty's Go-
vernment and that of the Sultan, on the 3d of February
last, for the empleyment of the Turkish troops in the
British service. He now wished to ask what progress
had been made in the formation of such a body of
troops If we were to believe the news-
papers—and their reports were confirmed by a letter
which he had received from an officer in that force,
no progress whatever had as yet been made in the plac-
ing of those troops under the orders of English officers
sent out to Constantinople to command them. Those
officers, it appeared, were extremely dissatisfied at this
state of things, who anxiously looked forward to the
completion of that force over which they were placed.
Lord PANMURE greatly regretted the delay that
had taken place in the formation of those troops, from
which he hoped the allied armies would receive much
advantage. Her Majesty's Government had performed
all the conditions they were called upon to perform
under the terms of the convention. On the 11th April
General Vivian was sent out to Constantinople, and
was accompanied by a corps of officers deemed suffi-
cient to undertake the command of a considerable. body
of men. On the arrival of General Vivian at Constanti-
nople, he, however, found that there were no more men
forthcoming. He (Lord Panmure) apprehended that the
fault did not lie with either her Majesty's Government
or the Government of the Porte, but it arose from the
fact of the Turkish troops concentrated at Constantino-
ple, and from which it was anticipated the Turkish Con-
tingent would he taken, had been suddenly called away
by Omer Pacha to the seat of war, and all the available
troops of the Sultan had been thus withdrawn. The
Porte, therefore, with the most perfect readiness, offered
to detach from the army of Omer Pacha a body of troops
to form the contingent ; but her Majesty's Government
declared that it was not advisable to weaken the strength
of the army at the seat of war. It was therefore pro-
posed, and the proposition was now being carried out,
that troops to form the contingent should be with-
drawn from the army of the Danube. This was
a suggestion from•Omer Pacha himself, and the arrange-
ment of this body would soon be completed.
The Earl of HARD WICKE considered it most de-
grading that this country should be forced to subsidise
an army or to hire mercenaries for our military service.
Lord PANMURE deprecated the observations of
the noble earl, and considered it no disgrace whatever to
this country to have the aid of such gallant men as those
to whom he had referred.

The Earl of MALMESBURY said it appeared to
him, from the observations of the noble lord opposite,
that he had entirely misunderstood the remarks of his
noble friend.

After a'few words from Earl GRANVILLE, the subject
dropped. _

THE CONFERENCE AT VIENNA.
In reply to Lord LYNDHURST,
Lord CLARENDON said he had received informa-
tion from her Majesty's Minister at Vienna that the
Conference was closed yesterday at the instanee of Count
Buol.

purpose to it—l warned them that they would deceive •it was now soon how the Government wore prepared
themselves if the'y supposed such a wet would tend to make peace, and that a proposal to withdraw from be.
their advantage, or satisfy their aspirations—and I added, Sebastopol had come from them ; and the only quest
that my fear was that the effect of such a war would be • being the infinitesimal question of the reduction
just the opposite of what they wished—and would the number of the Russian ships in the Black
strengthen those despotisms they hoped to weaken and He agreed with his right hon. friend (Mr. Gibson),
depress still more those oppressed communities they hoped thought that ithe Russian proposal was better than 0
to serve. (Haar j Such was my opiuion then, and such I However, it was rejected. We were then now carryin;
still believe to be the tendency of this war. (Hear.) But the war with a determination to tske Seba-topol ; at
to revert to my right hon. friend's allusions to Russia—l so he gathered from the statement of the noble lord.
believe there are few whose public views are more opposed did not know whether it was too late to speak of it ; but
to Russian despotism than mine; but it is unjust-1 hasl would ask if it was worth while to spend our treasure
almost said it was scandalous for a Cabinet Minister, who, shed our blood like water to take Sebastopol, if we tor
within these few weeks, was himself a party to these con- at all, if we accompanied its capture with the carrying
fideutial and, as I think, unworthy arrangements with of the policy of the Government, as laid down in their
Russia, to get up and speak of the government of that claration, that under no circumstances were we to take
country as might right friend did iu his speech of last territory from Russia. It seemed then that we v
night. This conduct, however, is not confined to my fighting for no purpose but to knock: about the ear.
right hon. friend ; the same game of see-saw has cba- our brave men a certain quantity of stone and me'
racterised the members of the Government throughout. and to destroy certain mounds of earth and fort'
From time to time they change their tone and their tions to which we could point as having been destn
arguments to suit the press and the feeling of the people by us. But how long would they remain so. Why, Bei
out of doors. And so obvious is the alteration which a would corns to some be-eking house in London, ann
few leading articles produce, that it might be supposed if three years they would be all built up more strongly e
the same thing happened in souse other country, amee est ever. What was the plan and object of the recounne.
a people of less discernment then ourselves, that cabinet meat of the war—what was it for? Was it a war ags;
secrets oozed out and were enninntrieated to the newspaper s the preponderance of Russia? Let them discard pass;
perhaps by some lady friend—that the wife possialy of aid tslk of this question as if they were talking of
some cabinet minister drew from her husband.and divulged United :States of America. Suppose that they were tali
to the wife of the editor of some leading journal the fact of the reduction of the preponderance of the United St
that there were two parties iii the cabinet —a war party I in the Gulf of Florida or the Gulf of Mexico. What set
and a r.ea:e party, and that the peace party, which wee the 4
be the rational ground of a discussion which would foe.
weaker, required to be whipped into enbmission. (Beer, a proposal ramie with the absence of all passion, an
herr.) So completely have we seen the change in the true which 1
they wouln Lave the benefit of their unclouded
of the Government accord with the altered tone of the tellects to
guide them? What, would they not ask,
leading articles of the newspapers from day to day that the tie source of the power of the United St eels in those et
case I have imagined to have taken place in another c Am- Woall they not point to New Oneans, which cowman
try inighn almost be eupposed to have happened here. and was the outlet for all the commerce which sPI
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Whet had been the con- from the fertile territories existing on the Assissi, millissippd:
duct of the noble lord the member for London, for in. Missouri,
a.n.l the Ohio, inhabited as they were by milli ? We find at the conferences at Vienna the noble of men, the producers 'of vast wealth to their empi
lord assumed the most polite and agreeable demeanour. (Hear, hear.) Would not the result arrived at be
There was no hard language used there, but when he re- that preponderance was natural to ann. inherent in
turns to the House of Commons we find him falling back country, and arising from this state of things? Let t'l
upon the old strain, and talking about Russia establishing turn their eyes to Sea,tfitylninla,ektrai.othe
large fortifications on the German frontier and in the sane consequences
harbours, and a large and
a same causes. •ts
Baltic, and of her intrigues in the German courts. But had Russia the preponderbance in the Black nem: Bee...
did it never occur to the noble lord that the obvious reply she possessed on its shores Inane provinces, rich and pr
to these statements was, "Pray which of the four points peroususlthey,wo,uld_see,
increasing, commerce.
was intended to rectify this evil—(cheers)—which of them (Mr.Cobden) was speaking lately reiagedeman who kn
said would have met the difficulty of these great fortifications those countries well, and who were engaged in the larg
in the Baltic, and prevented Russia from interfering and commercial transactions there,
and he that iu no p
encroaching on Germany?" There is no guarantee in these of the United States of America had there been each red
four points against the rebuilding of Bomarsund—there is progress in wealth and interior production e the repl no protection for the Circassiens. The independence of of our corn laws as had taken place in those Russian li the world is forgotten when the noble lord is at Vienna, but virtue. It was estimated that in the year before last is recalled to his mind the moment he returns to the House had exported five millions of quarters of grain of all kin
of Commons. Then, if we go into the House of Lords, and if things went on in the same proportion in the next i
what do we find the conduct of the members of ther
theGo-
grainyears
of all kinds. He admitted that
it wasestimatedthatshewoulditevpaosrot, 20j
amyiloliuorit
vernment there? I confess I read with astonishm
speech of the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, barbarism which was developiug itself into something I.
the other night. I presume it was intended to attain an ter, but so long as such vast produce was going into I
object for the moment, and in that it probably succeeded, Black Sea, and Russia lied no other neighbour but Turk
but I very much doubt if it will attain any permanent a decayed and unimproving empire, all the powers of 1
end that will satisfy either the noble lord or the country. earth could not take away the preponderance in the Bli,
The noble lord, in that speech, attacked Russia with Sea from her, because it was inherent in the nature
vituperation, and adopted a tone of defiance towards her, things. She had there 1,000 miles of frontier, and v
as if he had never been a party to those arrangements as Russia to be asked to cut herself down to the level of
to the Government of Wallachia and Moldavia to which orepid Turkey? It was an impossibility. What were
1 have alluded. He said look at the strength of Sebasto. fighting for? There was no mystery in what he was got
pal—what were all the fortifications our armies have there to say. It was whied that we were fighting more
met with erected for, and what were all those war ma- the wish of Franco Mesmer own. But were we sure ti
terials collected there for which have enabled the garrison the war was not going on against the wish of the Fret
so long to withstand the siege, if it, were not for the par- people? He would ask gentlemen who were acquain.
poses of aggression. But surely that noble lord cannot with and had connexions in France, whether they had I
be ignorant of the fact, that the great strength of Se- private information on this point, for cf course there v.
bastopol has been erected since our army has been not much information to be got from the press in tl
before it, and that ammunition and provisions, sorne- country. He heard from private sources that the tv
times in convoys of 500 and sometimes of 1,000 carts at a which was never very enthusiastically liked in Fran
time, have entered the fortress. (Hear, hear.) Lien the was now more than disliked. Then what were t
noble lord the member for London had alluded to Ger- wishes of the French Government ? He was n
many in a manner that would hardly be taken as indicative entering on delicate ground, but he was about
of oargood sense or our wisdom. He talked of the corrup- allude to a subject which • he told the noble 1, ,
tion of the German Courts and of the interference of the (Palmerston) that he should treat of publicly, 1
Russian government and of Russian agents in those coun- lieving as he did that it was his duty to sp.
tries. But from what he(Mr. Cobden) had heard, be fancied out ou a question which involved groat events, and mit
we were much mistakenas tothetendency of publicopiuion be fraught with calamities to the country. He came
in Germany, and as to the supposed difference betweenthe this point—was it the wish of the French Government
people and their governments in reference to this war. He go on with the war ? or was it the wish of our Gove
was told that in Germany there was no party that wanted meat ? It had been industriously spread abroad that r
to join ill the present war, and that though there mightbe French dynasty had so much at stake in the war that t
well-wishers to our cause there was no party ready to break Government dared not withdraw their army from bef,
the peace and enter into hostilities with Russian and if it ' Sebastopol on account of the effect which such a step woe
was recollected what was the past history of Germany in have on the French people. Now, his hon. friend (IS
relation to France and Russia it would be seen what was Bright) and himself had had it communicated to them
the reason why there was not any great dread of Russia good authority that the French Government had stated
there. In Prussia all the traditions of the people were ours that they were willing to accept of either alternat
favourable to Russia and hostile to France—and on this of the terms published in the last protocols. He was I
question they ought to speak in that house without talking of the proceedings of a secret conclave. They
reserve, and as if their debates were not reported ; knew of what was called a meeting of the supporters of
and he would say that they had in Prussia and the north noblelord in Downing street. On that occasion, when;
of Germany a dread of France, owing to the suffering nsble lord said they were about to enter on a confident
which the people uuderwent during the revolution, and conversation, and that no representatives of the papers ae
also partly because France lay contiguous to the Rhenish present, his hon. frien I asked if it was true that an it
provinces of Prussia, and was supposed to have cast an oration had been made by the French Governme
envious eye upon them. But whatever the cause, it was to ours that they were willing to accept t-ries differ.
the fact that in every cottage in Germany the feeling was from those offered by M. Drouyn de l'Huys, and that tit
rather favourable to Russia and in opposition to France. had been a refusal to accede to them on the part of our (
In the cottages of Germany would be found memorials of vernment. The noble lord refused to answer the qaesti
calamities caused by France, and the only recollections of although he was much prettied. He (Mr. Cobden) pros
Russia were, that she had come and helped them to escape him to give an auswer, and he told the noble lord
from the rule of Napoleon. All this might account for tinctly that if he would give an answer, and say no, tl
Germany's not being so anxious to enter into a war in he could treat all that took place there as confidential, I
alliance with France. Another reason was to be found in that if the noble lord allowed him to go out of the ro
the fact that there never was any principle laid down by without an answer, looking to the sources of the inforn
which any safeguard against Russia would be secured to tion his had received, he would not make any secret
Austria and Germany if they entered into a war with their what passed on that occasion. The state of things was v,
next neighbour for our purposes—no security was given serious. We had contrived to detach Germany and Ausi
against Russia's retaliating on Germany. And now what from us ' • there was no hope of their joining us; that was
would be said, after the result of the conferences at Vienna cided—there was no one now to help us. What would .
was made known, but that we, after talking about figh:ing fate be if, layered bye, it was proved that England was
for the liberties of Europe, had dropped our pretensions, cause of the recommencement of the war, and that she I,
and had not said a word which could give any confidence or sated contrary to the inclination of the French Govermn
any security to any pelt of Europe. There could, there- and the Frenchp :vie? That might lead to the very opposit
fore, be no alliance with Prussia, or with any nation all we hoped from the union of the two peoples—it mi,
lying contiguous to Russia. He (Mn Cobden) was lately lead to their estrangement. If we were to carry on
talking to a Prussian gentleman, who said that we English war in conjunctior. with France alone, did not that
were a most unreasonable and net a little arrogant people, volve the responsibility of doing more than we are dolt
for we expected the Prussians to enter into the war with Would it not some day be a subject of recrimination t
Russia—that is, sixteen millionsof men of a country lying our force in the Crimea was so small, and that of
contiguous to a country with sinty millions ; and they were French so great ? This was not, perhaps, the proper ti
not like the English, who, when the war was over, could to bring up this question, but he would refer to Omer
withdraw to an impregnable position; wid,e in the tions which had been made by the hon. member for
case of Prussia it was always in the power of verness-shire, who stated that we were 40,000 short of
Russia to assault her; and that really the way in number of men voted by Parliament. It was stated I
I
which the newspapers bullied Prussia could only noble lord a member of the Government in Decomi
be compared to the conduct of a man who drove that we Were 20,0u0 short; and the hon. member for .
a dog on to attack a wolf. (Hear, hoar.) If we looked verness-shire said that the militia regiments in Engl,
back at the tone taken by the newspapers, was there not were mere skeletons, while in Ireland and Scotland t'
something that bore out those remarks? And it should be were, practically, disbanded. If that were true, and
remembered, when you were dealing with Germany you still wanted forty thousand men, might we not be urg
were dealing with an educated people, who had their news- on the war with that blind heedlessness with which eve
papers too, and in a country where education was so diffused thing had been done by the Government, without 1e
that you might go to buy your bread and meat in Latin if ing three months beforehand; and by and bye ag
you did not know German. Having such a people, then, see the consequences of this want of foresight of the
no deal with, were not they in that house somewhat too ar- vernment ? He was speaking at a moment when
regent in their treatment of them, and was it not country was excited by the recent intelligence from
somewhat arrogant in the noble lord to say that all Ger- seat of war. Now, if any one studied the maps of
many was corrupted by Russia? If the English people had scone of the operations, it would be seen how much •
to undergo the conscription, as was the case in Russia, made out of very little, although it had done much
where every man and horse and cart could be taken for increase the confidence of the people. He placed
military purposes, they would be a little more chary about limits to the power of England and France if they
going to war, and our pot-house politicians would not call out their strength, but he was not so sure that our
out so loudly for war, and the Government would look at sition in the Crimea was as supposed. He had beet
the question of war with more consideration, because it communication with a gentleman with regard to
would be known how severe were the sufferings caused by supply of food to the Russians in the Crimea, and he
war, when they were brought home to a people. He had not learn from him that Sebastopol depended on Ker
said long before we sent a man from these shores that if we for food. He was told by this gentleman (and it on,
were going to war with Russia to vindicate our rights, or to to damp this unwarranted exultation), who was a hed
avenge our wrongs, we should do so with our strong
,arm, of corn at Kertch, that the Russian Government I •
with our navy, but that we should not send a man to the stated to him five months ago that they could not be resp
continent of Europe or to Turkey; the expression he used sible for the safety of his corn. Five months ago, Rut
was, that we should not take our land forces over the backs gave notice that it was intended to abandon Kertch, E
of whole populations of continental Europe, where there no doubt it was the same with Beriansk and other pia
were a million of men in arms between us and the power in the Sea of Azoff. From what he gathered there N
we affected to dread. He held the same opinion now, and great exaggeration with regard to this expedition to
he believed that we ought to have stood on the same ground Sea of Azoli. If there was really anything in it, what a
with regard to Russia as Austria and Prussia did ; and if now be the reflection of those who had the ships to uni
we had not rushed so hastily into war, it would have hap- take it long ago ? (Loud cheers.) Were we sure that
paned, as was proved, that Austria and Germany would expedition was not occasioned by the same cause evil
have averted all the evils which were dreaded, for it now took our troops from Gallipoli to Varna, and from Va
appeared that Austria and Prussia had by treaty declared to the Crimea—the cry of "Do something." (Hear, he
it to be a casus bell if Russia crossed the Balkan, and they If ever a government or a commander did something
would have been equally ready to have declared the cross- r cause they were told to do something, and for no of
inn of the Pruth by Russia a casus belli. Why, then, I reason, the chances were a hundred to one that they we
should not we have been contented to stay in our island ;do something wrong. (Hear, hear.) He was not sure t
home and send our fleet into the Black Sea, telling I the expedition was caused by anything but because
Austria and Prussia, here is a great danger to Europe, Government was called on to do something, and he wo
and if you will share with us
wethe resistance to
it we are ready to help you, but if notwill ingsnow irnecrohred
Seahis dofehAz.beroafftewoepreinion that,f while the prose
key by sea, but not a man of our army shall move till you and would not add to the lustre of
arms, he belie sot yourselves in motion towards a common object •
defence. (Hear.) Any one would now
eroyorunrgprivate propel
sayrharin
wouldthis
rthhaant theyrh mcaorualuddihnagveexnpeo better effect upon the
expeditions last year in the G
have been a wise policy. He heard some lion. gentlemen of Finlined had on Cronstadt. (Hear, hear.) He belie'
say the Russians would have been in Constantinople ; but that the supplies of Sebastopol came entirely fr
he said no, they would not, for Austria and Northern Perekop, and that that place and Simpheropol w
Germany had a far greater interest in keeping Russia out strongly fortified like Sebastopol, and that both must
of
inconsistentConstantinop argumentslethanweh whichad. He
had been usedethencamet by oeonsider taken before you could intercept the food of the Russ
the
our army, and take Sebastopol. As to the interception of s
leading statesmen. They had declared during the last 13 plies into the Crimea across the steppes beyond Perek
months that Germany and Austria were more interested in he was told by a gentleman that every spring 1,000 es
resisting Russia than we were. It was so stated by the noble were obtained to go from Odessa and other' places on •
lord at the head of the Government, by Lord J. Russell, by coast, over the steppes, with produce to the Crimea, I,
Lord Clarendon, and by Lord Lyndhurst ; there was not a that all that commerce was now suspended. The cot
leading mind among them but laid it down that Austria quence was that the Russian Government would avail it
and Germany had a greater interest in this question than of all that means of conveyance, while so far from
we had. Then why did not we, who had less interest in steppes being an obstacle, journeys were made over stet,
the matter than they, wait until those great powers were five or six times greater inextent than those. Was it
ready to move ? But we said that we were going to fight better that we should look at all these things in this lig
the battle of the civilisation of the world, and we set about and calmly consider them, without giving
of thee.
that with 40,000 or 30,000 men, for we never had more vescence of feeling which prevented our judging
than 30,0J0 in the Crimea ; and the correspondent of the sequences of what we were about to do ? We had reccro
Times had lately repeated what he said before, th it we meuced the war with a .determination to take Saba 1 •
lost half our army because we had not men enough }pay to an et
to do When he said that the united strength of Englandenu
the duty required of them. Was it the function of Eng- France could not be resisted by any human powennh _ _
lishmen to fight because Germany was corrupt? He (Mr. one exception in favour of a greater poweratibeasatriintth,
lobden) said, as was said by Prince Gortschakoff at He alluded to pestilence and disease.
Vienna, that the best blood of England should be shed some extracts from Spencer's work willtherhreeafetreenscuemtoml
for Englishmen and England. He did not say this dis- climate of the Crimea, which had reference h
paragingly of Germany and Austria, who . had shown He never dreamt of applying those observationsroverworktoeal
themselves more enlightened on the subject of this winter, for if well housed and fed, and no
war than we were. 'The English people had been sti- the trenches, there was nothing in the constitution of
mutated, and especially by the noble lord (John Englishman to prevent hie lirvin theing
summer, and being in health
Russell), (for he held that noble lord to be the the winter in the Crimea.
greatest offender in thatrespect), had been clamoured to the best autnorities, it wasnhardly possible for accord'
r an Er
into the war, andna had not taken time for combinations Tishman in the Crimea, unless the metnnotsetnoc,uadtreisifnruelgthaprereemdeacilud. :di
Germany to avert the threatened was observed, to escape the intermittent fever which p
with Austria a
But now, when it was known that Ger- veiled in July, August, and half of September. TIL
danger.
many and Austria would not act with us, we were going were the fatal months. If any one sinned against them.
on in the same course. It would bo a Parliamentary careful rules of diet",
curiosity of literature to go to Hansard and extract the sun, or was exposed ioftoaatuhme.oatnnhiegwrht dews—if he took c.
thfought of by the Government declarations of Ministers that Austria and Germany would water when heated, or ate new cyor,nAmoraufartui,atn—dasell
ptteh.
hear.) They put it into the mouth of things brought on the intermittent fever; and all tb
aotldbieeerns
Majesty(ilelr'her speech from the throne, and they re- precautions
jhoeirn us.
nested it in every speech they themselves made. He could dreaded the fate of the army in J til
not even except the right hon. gentleman the member for ber. Hadths
• turned
the University of Oxford—(hear)—for even he, in his great theyaway from PeaeeN? On them andrm/lent wl
speech on the budget, expressed his opinion that there was shoulders would rest the whole responsibility. on tb
little doubt but that Austria had actually joined us. (Year, not for their emoluments, and all their
hear.) It was impossible to read extracts fromonalel_rtehe self the responsibility they incurred. power, take on hi.
speeches, and he would give but a few. Here
Dec. f
mlf no pestilence destroyed our in the next 6 moan
a speech of the noble lord (J. Russell)on the 22d of lf the Crimea, all th army, and we triumphed
e honour
Russia should not consent to such very moderate terms as army was destroyed by would be theirs ; but if o
Em will be our duty to propose, after the Minister of the and there was a repetitionpestilence, if it failed in the fie
is directed to enter into of the disasters of last wint.
peror of Russia has declared he . . they must be prepared negotiations, but should still continue of opinion that physical vi I •
o ence which for retribution—nothing short
that great scheme which was begun in the reign of the 6 months. There'h d would come upon them in theist(
Empress Catherine, if not before, and which is to end in conduct of thea been a great want of frankness in
adding Turkey to the Russian dominions, must be prose- and war, The public had gone heedlessly into
cuted—if he is still of that opinion, I feel convinced that not the entertained very erroneous opinionsrespecting it. H
we shall, bcfsre the opening of the next campaign, have the a tone held at recent meetings been one of the great
alliance of Austria both in offensive and defensive opera- rmgance, and ignorance of the power of the enemy ? -
tions." Were we going now, and at this time, to carry 04 rested his case upon the infatuation of invading Russ
the war on land? That was the question, and he (Mr. Cob-
den) would say, as he said before, are you going to conanait operations, we should have had no disasters and
we
yourselves to the taking of Sebastopol ? That was the goes_ content. By sending an army to invade Russia,
and
u
p, Was that to be done now, although it had been e2-
pared for inevitable disasters. That expedition was
given of doors, in regard to wh up, notwithstanding that the noble lord and other taken in obedience to a cry opttl to have exercised ace
men on the Treasury bench came down day after dagyen • e.
the statesmen of the oughtcountryta
land force three thorns
different stories on that point for the purpose of be,, with trollin judgment. Wese
oar American colonists, and
the house. Although they might allow that sort of utVinng miles to
carry
withenlva
of Napoleon 1., supported by b
to go on, Austria would not' allow such double dealing failed. The expeditionand aimed at the very heart -co R
The proceedings a the Conferences g. a 'million of bayonets,
were Published, and sia, failed, Was there any reason to believe that, with t