The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-17 00:00:00

this bill oil the principle of local self-government. There
was no wish whatever to interfere beyond that which would
be absolutely necessary for the benefit of the public. It

select tiro Lames of three persuns—noi, necessarily from
their own body—not from the local boards—but from the
whole length and breadth of the empire. After selecting
three names for the office of chairman, they would be sent to
the Secretary of State, who would select one of them, and
the persou so selected would be, as proposed in the bill, en-
titled to a salary of not less than 1,5001., and not more than
2,0001. a-year, and he would hold office during pleasure. He
would also propose to give the board power to take land for
outfall works, so that the metropolis might to drained—
which at present could not be done, because no power had
been given to take land out of the districts. The metropolitan
board should have power to make a sewer on each hide of the
river, so that the Thames might be cleansed of all impurities.
Where districts are uow partially drained, the. board would
have powers to take other parts if found more convenient.
He would propose that the district boards should make a re-
port of their proceedings annually to Parliament, and in such
reports all details should be given—the names of all the mem-
bers of the local boards, and the officers appoiuted—aed it
should contain a general review of what had been done by
the local boards throughout the year. He had stated gene-
rally the object of the bill, which was to give municipal
powers to local districts, and they would have a mayor, al-
dermen, and councilmen. He proposed not to interfere with
the metropolitan police, or the magistrates. The city of
London, as before observed, would be excluded from the ope-
ration of the bill, except so far only as included within the
scope of the Metropolitan Board of Works. The coal duties
would, under another bill, be proposed to be transferred to
the Metropolitan Board of Works. He also proposed, if the
house would grant him leave to introduce the present mea-
sure, to bring in a short bill for the purpose of allowing a
greater number of polling places to be erected, to meet' the
convenience of persons residing in the larger parishes. Among
the general provisions of the bill, there were three great ob-
jects in view with regard to the sanitary improvement of the
metropolis. He proposed that every house should be drained
into a great sewer, to be constructed iu every street ; that
cesspools—the seed plots of fever and all kinds of disease—
should be abolished—(hear)—and that great drains should bo
. provided to intercept the sewage of the Thames. (Hear, hear )
He was not sanguine enough to expect to be able to restore
the river to its condition as described in the time of Henry
VIII. by the Spanish Minister, as " that magnificent river
flowing by the Tower, on whose bosom 200 swans wore swim-
ming," but he did hope that it would no longer be known as
the cloaca maxima of the metropolis. (Hear, hear.) Then,
with regard to the supply of water, it would not be possible
for him to interfere with it in this bill, in consequence of the
compact entered into between Parliament and the water com-
panies in the year 1852. By that agreement the companies
were allowed, until August, 1855, to perform certain works,
and until the expiration of that time it would not be compe-
teat for him to move in the matter. As soon as the three
years had expired it would be his duty to recommend to the
Government and the house that a commission should be ap-
pointed to inquire into the manner in which the companies
had eomplied with the act of Parliament under which they
had undertaken to perform certain works for the better sup-
ply of water to the metropolis. (Hoar, hear.) It was his in-
tention to propose that the commission should issue la August
next, and in case the Government agreed to it, he would then
be in a position to lay the report of the commission upon the
table of the house at the commencement of the ensuing ses-
sloe in February next. It now remained for hilt to express
his regret at being compelled to go so much into detail. He
was aware that in undertaking a matter of such great im-
portance, and with only imperfect information to guide him,
there must be many omissions in the bill, which would bo de-
tected by hon. gentlemen who might do him the honour of
examining it, and also others who took an interest in the sub-
ject. He could therefore only hope that those hon. members
who were associated with him in the representation of the
metropolis, and those who took an interest in a scheme in-
tended for the benefit of the public, and the improvement of
the metropolis, would communicate with him, and offer him
such suggestions as, ha their opinion, it would be most ad-
visable to adopt for the greater efficiency of the measure.
(Hear, hear.) It would be his duty, as it would be his
pleasure, to adopt those suggestions as far as they were prac-
ticable ; and if the house would allow him to introduce the
bill, he would not propose the second reading till the 16th of
next month, so as to give a month for the consideration not
only of the measure itself, but of those suggestions which it
might be desirable to introduce when the bill was in com-
mittee. (Hear, hear.) Again begging to thank the house
for the attention with which it had heard him, be now begged
to move for leave to bring in the bill. (Tile right lion. ba-
rouet was loudly cheered as he resumed his seat.)

Mr. FITZROY objected, first, to the manner in which
the bill had been introduced ; and secondly, to ono of its
most important features. He thought that so important a
bill should have been introduced by a member of the ca'
not, and not by a person representing so inferior a depart-
ment as that of the right hon. baronet; and further, he
complained that its introduction was unaccompanied by
sufficient information. One principle of the bill was start-
ling, namely, that which conferred powers of sewerage for
three millions of inhabitants on a body of parochial dele-
gates. The only mode of obtaining an efficient system would
be to divide the main drainage from the district sewerage,
and to place the former in the bands of a commission of emi-
nent professional persons, or at least of eminent practical men,
to be appointed by the Crown, and to be responsible to Parlia-
ment. They might then with safety leave the district sewer-
age to local boards, on the condition, however' that they
should undertake no works of importance until they had first
laid them before the central board, and obtained its sanction.
(Hear.) To this part of the bill he should certainly offer his
strongest opposition, and he trusted that Parliament would
never assent to it. (Hear.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE thought the speech of the hon.
gentleman who had just sat down was calculated to raise a
very unfounded and unjust principle. During the sitting
of the late commission such strong statements incidentally
came before it, of gross abuses in the existing system by
which the metropolis was managed, that the commissioners
thought it right to state that these institutions should be
renewed gnu rerormen. rue present bill was undoubtedly
founded upon these principles, and nothing that had fallen
from the hon. gentleman had shaken his opinion in those
principles of local self-government under the control of
the ratepayers. The system had been found to work well
iu every other city in the kingdom, and therefore he
thought it should be applied to the metropolis.
Confusion of government prevailed throughout the whole of
the metropolis, and surely that was not a state of things
which ought to continue. He gave his approval to the
general principle of the bill ; but he reserved to himself the
right of afterwards considering the details, upon which the
house would have to exercise the greatest care. The sewage
system especially required those checks which a body elected
by the ratepayers could exert ; and he doubted not but that
such a body, once established in the metropolis, would bo
found to work as well as it had in other towns. He thanked
the Government for having brought forward that bill, and the
hon. baronet for the labour he had bestowed on it, and the
ability which he had evinced in bringing it forward.
Lord EBRINGTON said he agreed with the hon. baronet
in the description which he had given of the evils from which
the metropolis suffered, but he differed with him as to the
remedy which was to be applied. For instance, the hon.
baronet proposed dividing the metropolis into 36 districts
altogether, irrespective of the levels and lie of the ground.
He doubted not but he would find also his officers underskil-
led and overpaid. Again, although the sewage rate was en-
tirely
a landlord rate, and the metropolis was the only place
in which it wac a landlord rate, yet the right hon. baronet
proposed that the decision of all the important questions
affecting that rate, and hew it should be applied, should be
in the bands of those who did not pay the rate at all.
Lord PALMERSTON—I do not fear that the house will
be deterred from giving their approval to the bill which is
about to be introduced by my right hon. friend, in conse-
quence of the disapprobation expressed by the hon. mem-
ber for Lewes (Mr. Fitzroy), and that disapprobation mainly
founded on the fact of my right honourable friend having
been selected to bring in this measure. Now, the facts are
these, as my right hon. friend had more local knowledge of
the matters to which this bill applied than anybody else, and
as lie had consulted with me during last autumn, and both
submitted his plans and considered them with me ; and as
he had, with great industry and ability, completed his ar-
rangements, the Government thought that he was best fitted
to sn.smit that plan to Parliament, and, indeed, that it would
be unjust to have put
.it into other hands. I quite agree
with my right lion, frien near me (Mr. Labouchere) that the
principle of self-governim...t which obtains in Parliament has
been found most congenial with the habits of the people of
this country, and I think that local interests will not be mis-
managed if committed to the influence of that principle. The
commissioners had the care of the great arterial drainage, and
it was thought that one body should superintend the general
arrangements and arterial drainage ; and that other bodies
shoiffit be entrusted with the task of keeping in repair the
sewers in the different local districts, Both these objects will
be accomplished by the bill of my right hon. friend. I will
not dwell upon the cogent reasons which my right hon. friend
has stated for the enactment of this measure. I say that it
will not be calculated to create chaos, but that it will dispel
chaos, and substitute in the metropolis for confusion, regu-
larity and order. (Hear.)
Mr. S. WORTLEY said thathe should be happy to facilitate
as far as he could, any system to improve the management of
the sewage of the metropolis!. He understood that the City
was to be only represented by throe members, but he did not
think that was a sufficient number. With respect to the coal
tax of Is. ld. a ton on coals, Pd. was paid to the Board of
Works, and the remaining 4d. to the corporation. That tax
would expire in 1862, but the 4d. would still remain to be re-
ceived by the corporation under their ancient charters.
Sir B. HALL, in reply, stated that be had no intention
whatever to interfere with the drainage of tho City, which
was in a most efficient state.
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
MILITIA (IRELAND) BILL.

Tice house w nt into committee on this bill.
Clauses from 1 to 5 inclusive wore agreed to without dis-
cussion.

On clause 6 being proposed,
Mr. MACARTNEY moved its omission, on the ground that
it attempted, by a side wind, to give to the Lord Lieutenant
of Ireland the direct power of removing officers from the
militia. By the existing law he had not an immediate power
of that sort.

Mr. FITZGERALD said that the clause would assimilate
the law of England and Ireland on this subject.
The clause (which was the last in the bill) was agreed to,
and the house resumed.

INTRAMURAL BURIALS (IRELAND) BILL,

This bill passed through committee.
LUNACY REGULATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
PUBLIC HEALTH AND NUISANCES REMOVAL
AMENDMENT BILLS.
_

PELLATT moved an instruction to the committee to
whom the Public Health and Nuisances Removal Amendment
Bills are referred, to hear counszl on behalf of such petitioners
as have prayed to be heard by counsel.
Mr. MUNTZ moved, as an amendment, that it be an in.
struction to the committee to whom the Public Health Bill,
and Nuisances Removal Amendment Bill, are referred, to
hear two counsel upon each class •f petitions praying to be
heard by counsel,

Mr. GREENE opposed both the motion and the amend-
ment. The committee would act with entire impartiality,
and hear all the evidence that could be brought forward on
both sides, and he therefore trusted the house would not agree
to either proposal, as the appearance of counsel would only
have the efieet of lengthening their proceedings to an in-
definite extent, and would do no good.
Mr. SPOONER supported the amendment. Ho thought
the hearing of counsel would tend to quell the doubts and
fears of those who thought their interests would be injured,
and facilitate the ultimate passing of the bill.
After some discussion,
Mr. A. PELL ATT withdrew his motion, and the amend-
ment of Mr. Muntz was put as a substantive motion.
The house divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it 4O

Majority against the motion - • 22
Sir J. PAKINGTON brought up his bill on education,
which was ordered to be read a second time on the 2d of May.
The heuso adjourned, at 25 minutes past one o'clock, till
Monday next.