The Sun.
London, England, 1855-08-04 00:00:00

THE s tir ri; LONDON. SATURDAY EVP,NtNCI-5 AIIGUSr 4, 1855;

LINES i,etASED AT FIXED EENTALS.

I IMPERIAL PA LIMA-MEN T.

;') r4.44:t77.4:4121. y— rile
,
•-c t,•„.0 4-r, 4),
, •

...i~::.,u~

1L.% A re.

e,c•elpartf

0103111,.. friers
yesterJay.

fluainess
this day.

ROUSE OF CO2IITIONS-(THIS DAY.)

Bedford and
Blete)ley
Clydeadale J,;.
Col. Stour Vy.
Su& and Hal.
B. Lin. g. 6 pc
Glas. Barr. &
NeiLs. Direct
Do. New
Glstr.&Dn.Fr
Dk. &
Railway
Hull &. Selby
Do. L Sharer.
Do.. Shares.
Lon. & Greenw
Do. Preference
Lon., Til., & S.
Lowestoft gr.
4 per cent.
Do. 6 per et.
Manch. Bxtn.
and Matlock
Mid'dlesbro' &
Redcar.
Midld.Bradfd
Newmarket
Bury Exton...
N.& Est.s p.c.
Do. 6 per ct.
Do. Fixeds p
Prost. & WYre

4on
r,.
E. Un. t
Gt.Nron.
rialdonian.

The SPEAKER took the chair shortly after 12 o'clock.
EXCHEQUER BILLS (7,000,0001.) BILL.
On the motion of Mr. FITZROY, this bill 1-;:v4 read a
second tune and ordered to be committed on Monday. •
CONSOLIDATED FUND BILL.

SUIA7 OFFICE, o'clock.

St. ICO
St tea
25 24

SPAIN.

;t.•00
;t. 1.0)

This bill was also read a second time.
MILITIA PAY BILL.

The Madrid Gazette of the 29th ult. contains the
following :
" It is certain that the representatives of France
and England at Madrid have never made, and
have consequently never renewed, au application
to the Spanish Government to send troops either to
'the Crimea or to Italy. It is an error to suppose
that any division araonst the ministers, or a minis-
terial crisis, exists. The Minister of Foreign Af-
fairs, in going to Biarritz, had. no other object,
apparent or real, than that of complimenting the
chief of the neighbouring State, in the name of the
Queen and the Spanish government ; any other
statement on the subject is devoid of all founda-
tion."

This bill was also read a.-second time.
ORDNANCE BOARD BILL.

100
5 all
0 all

Do
Gt. Westa
Yk. New.
Fa Berw.
Y. &NM
Do.
Do

This bill was read a third time and passcl.
LUNATICS ASYLUM (IRELAND) ADVANCES

BILL.

25 all
12:', all
123 all
20 all
10 all
St. 100

This bill, as amended, was considered, and the third
reading fixed for Monday.
PUBLIC HEALTH (1854) CONTIUUA.NCE AND

Easter)
Do

?do & Co.

AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
DISEASES PREVENTION BILL.

Norfolk ''
Do
t..& N. VT'
k Mid d.
Stcktoii
Darliugt.

toG
k all

This bill, as amended, was considered, and the third
reading axed for Monday.
DWELLINGS FOR LABOURING CLASSES

BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
BURIALS BILL.

The other journals contain no news of interest.
According to Las Novedades the voluntary sub-
scription to the loan in Madrid, though required
to amount to 22,000,000 reals (the real is worth
five sous), had only reached 120,000 reals. The
Clamor Publico says that the Bank of San Fer-
nando had encountered some difficulty in pro-
viding funds to the Treasury to pay the claims
of the month of June, but that some pri-
vate friends of the Minister of Finance had
advanced the Treasury what it required. The
Clamor says also that the 20,000,000 reals bor-
rowed in Paris were shortly expected. The
Captain General of Catalonia having learned that
Carlist agents in the principalities were endeavour-
ing to seduce soldiers from their duty, had issued
an order of the day to the troops offering 1,000
reals and his discharge to any soldier who should
denounce any man attempting to induce him to
violate his duty. A letter of the 30th ult., received
in advance of the mail, says :--
"The Gazette publishes a royal ordinance regulating
the manner in which the delivery of the ecclesiastical
property is to be proceeded to, before being sold. The
Government is carrying out measures for the sale of such
property with great activity. The civil governor of
Madrid has seized all that is to be found in his district,
and the sale of it is to commence forthwith. Everything
now causes it to be hoped that the peace of Barcelona
will not be again disturbed. The Minister of Public
Works has settled the questions raised by the workmen
by deciding that there shall be liberty of capital, liberty
of labour, that coalitions shall he prohibited, and that
workmen's associations, except for charitable purposes,
shall not exist. It has been further decided that stran-
gers arriving in Barcelona shall obtain a permission to
remain from the authorities, or shall be liable to expul-
sion. In Barcelona the manufacture and sale of arms of
all descriptions has been prohibited."

ft. le°
5 51

En. Coun.
E. Connc,
D 0........,

The house then went into committee on this bill, and
the various clauses having been agreed to, with some
verbal amendments, the bill passed through committee,
and the house adjourned at one o'clock till Monday.

all
5 all

L. &N.W
StLuSak
Do

.2A all
it: 00
;5 18

Do. A stirs. A
Roystu.BE,Hit.
Shef.Roth and
Gooleg.s p. e.
Shrews. &Her
S. Stafforcish.
Wear Valleygr
3 per cent
Do
WiltsBe.',orurst

Gt Northi
Laneaah&
Yorksh.
T. Brassey
4. Mclean
Stoekt. &
Darlingt
Do

1.0 all
2 91
;0 all

5 all
it. 1.00

itWestn.

I ,IiPEIIIAL PARLIAMEN T.

HOUSE- OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.)

The Court of Judicature (Prince of Wales' Island) Bill
was read a third time and passed.

The Turnpike Acts Continuance (Ireland) Bill was
read a third time and passed.
The Office of Speaker Bill was read a third time and
passed.
METROPOLITAN BUILDINGS BILL.

Lord WODEHOUSE, having moved the suspension of
the standing order, moved that this bill be read a second
time.— A greed to.

The Customs Tariff Acts Amendment and Consolida-
tion Bill was read a second time.

CUSTOMS LAWS CONSOLIDATION BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
PASSENGERS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY moved that the
standing order be suspended, and that the bill be read
a second time.
Agreed to.

TURNPIKE ACTS CONTINUANCE (No. 2) BILL.

Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY made a shoilar
motion with respect to this bill, and it was also read a
second time.

tendency to divergence on her part from the policy of
the allies. So great a change must have had some cause.
Previous to the 2d of December, Austria well knew the
difficulties that beset the English and rrench armies in
the Crimea ; she knew of the fatal field of Balaklavn, of
the destructive conquest at Inkerman, of the hurricane
of the 14th of Nov., of the absolute necessity of remain-
ing for the winter in the Crimea. Our military affairs
were then at the worst. Be did not think that that di-
vergence could have arisen from any discovery of her own
financial state. Count Emil was then the Foreign Mi-
nister of Austria, and he was so still. He did not think
Austria had attained all she could desire by the first and
second points. He was satisfied that until the Princi-
palities were, by a treaty with all the great powers of
Europe, made a central State, Germany had not all the
security she-could attain, nor would she have security
until she got a scrap of territory on the left of the
Danube. Could they not see that it was the third
point which secured the other two, and that so long as
they gave to Russia power iu the Black Sea, it was idle
to expect from Russia an adherence to the first and se-
cond points. He trusted that these gentlemen would
recover the understanding that German statesmen had
in former times, that the nation would recover the mi-
litary spirit it had in former times, and that it would
not allow itself to be surrendered and destroyed like a
dy in the toil of a spider. Thera was another point,
and that was our military position as compared with
what it was on the 2d of December. There had
been a pulling down and a subsequent reconstruction
of the war department. He had before taken objection
to the manner in which that operation had been per-
formed. He thought it would have been wiser to have
confined themselves to giving the Secretary-at-War ab-
solute authority over the inferior departments, and not
in a hurry to have made material alterations in the great
departments. The Secretary for War had now on his
shoulders all the duties at the Secretary at War, of the
Commissary-General, and of the Master-General of the
Ordnance. The noble lord had left himself without the
military instrments with which alone the war depart-
ments could be conducted, and which it was per-
fectly impossible for civilians to control with understand.
ing. Except the Commander-in-Chief and the Secretary
of State for War, the noble lord had no military man
whatever with whom be could have official communica-
tion. Then, what had the noble lord done with
regard to the regular army ? He came down suddenly
one day, and told the house that he had de-
termined to give a prospective shilling to each
man, which was to be put into the savings bank and
paid when the man left the service. In about a week
the noble lord threw over altogether the prospective
shilling, and, instead, ho gave a present sixpence ; that
was, he said he would give it, but to this hour there had
been no proclamation to that effect, and he knew that
the paymaster would not pay sixpence on a speech
of the noble lord's. (Laughter.) Therefore be' appre-
hended that at the present moment the addition of six-
pence had not taken effect. It was a serious matter to
trifle in this way with the army. The army in front of
Sebastopol at the present moment, if it were in the
field, and had the means of moving, would beat any
army which Russia, or he believed all the states of
Europe, could bring against it. There was nothing
that could resist an army of 170,000 men, composed as
it was, and capable, when once in the field, of obtain-
ing the assistance of 35,000 Turks. There were 200,000
men, a larger army than had ever engaged in any battle,
not only in the memory of man, but, unless they
believed in the exaggerations of historians, had ever
engaged in times of antiquity. There was the finest
army in the world, utterly lost, unable to move. From
six weeks to six weeks there was a bombardment, and
then there was some fatal assault, and the progress made
was very little. There was to one at the present mo-
ment who could reasonably look forward to anything
but the continuance of that army in the Crimea during
another: winter. He looked with very serious apprehen-
sion upon this state of things, not merely as affecting
our military reputation, but as affecting at no great dis-
tance of time the state of public feeling in this country,
and the position of all men engaged in the management
of public aflairs. When they met again in November,
the noble lord opposite and his colleagues might still
have retained their position, but unless there was a very
material change in their military prospects they might
depend upon it the first operation of the House of Com-
mons would be to put them out as it put out Lord Aber-
deen.

Lord PANMURE said he concurred in many of the
remarks of the noble earl, but from some of them he
must take the liberty to differ, and particularly, that in
discussing this matter in another place, dbubte had been
thrown on the good faith of the French government. The
noble lord had stated, that although some improvement
TURKISH LOAN BILL. had taken place in the condition of our army since last
The Earl of CLARENDON moved the second read- December, our affairs were not in as satisfactory a con-
ing of this bill, with the understanding that any debate dition as he could wish, and he also alluded to the state
on its merits might be taken at a future stage. Their of the militia. It was quite true, that owing to the un-
lordships were aware that the measure had given rise to fortunate wording of the act of Parliament, many regi-
much discussion elsewhere, to objections which he must merits were not now in the service of the country, but
take the liberty to characterise as unfounded, and to these men were not discharged, but were bound when
alarms which appeared to him to be greatly exaggerated. called upon to perform their 56 days' service. But with
He hoped, however, in a few words to show that it had regard to recruiting, he must say that, considering the
not been unnecessary, and that her Majesty's Govern- state of trade the spirit of the youth of this country was
meet, in agreeing to the convention, had only acted in beyond praise. Atthismomentthey were recruiting atthe
accordance with the general feeling of the country, which rate of not less than 60,000 a year, a number far exceeding
had been so faithfully represented in theirlordship'shouse, any that was attained during the last war, and it was
namely, that the hostilities should be carried on with the attained without any compulsory enlistment whatever, the
utmost possible vigour and effect. (Hear.) England and ballot for the militia never having been put in force. He
France had made great efforts and great sacrifices in had the strongest objections to the ballot, and he thought
order to conduct a war which they considered to be that instead of adding to the desire of the young men to
just and necessary, ana which had been forced upon engage in the service of the Queen, it would have a con-
them by the ambitious policy and the aggressive de- trary effeci. He would rather encourage voluntary
signs of Russia. Turkey, on her part, had not only efforts than have recourse to the.compuliory method of
made a gallant stand, but had given proof of au ability and enlisting men either for the army or the navy. With
a devoted patriotism which had astonished even those reference to the position of affairs in Asia, he regretted
who had placed the greatest reliance upon her powers them as much as the noble earl did, but he should have
of resistance. Those efforts, by which she had been some hesitation, considering the difficulties to which it
able to equip and to maintain in the field an army would expose her Majesty's troops, in placing them in
of 180,000, had however been attended with unavoid- that part of Asia. The noble earl had threatened her
able results. Turkey, like England and France—but Majesty's Government in the month of Novemder with
not sooner than England and France—had found her a visitation of public opinion. When that visitation
ordinary revenues insufficient for the great struggle in came upon them, he, for one, would endeavour to meet
which she was engaged. She had therefore determined it, confident that he had done what lay within him to
to do, what she had never done before except in a single protect the forces of her Majesty in their present arduous
instance, to make a loan. In giving effect to that de- service, by looking forward to secure for them in case they
termination the Turkish. Government acted in a manner remained another winter in the Crimea the means of
which did them great credit. They did not appeal to escaping of many of the difficulties which were un-
the generosities of their allies ; they asked neither for avoidable last winter. By having collected together all
loan nor subsidy. All that they did ask for was merely a the supplies that any army could require, whether in
certificate thattheagents of the Sultan were really autho- the shape of food for men or forage for the horses, or in
rised to negotiate the loan. The loan was five millions, the provision of any kind whatever, he should be pre-
but the sum realised on the first instalment of 3,000,0001. pared to meet that visitation of public opinion with the
was only 2,400,0001., without deducting expenses or full consciousness of having done in this matter all that
commission, and the net sum that actually found its way was possible for him to do at present. The defalcations
into the treasury of the Porte was only 1,800,0001. in the military stores of this country would have been
When that money was expended her Majesty's Govern- somewhat alarming, had he not been able to find in the
meet found, on inquiry, that it would be impossible for department of the Ordnance men by whose energy all
Turkey to raise from the remaining two millions a sum difficulty bad been cleared away. In the departments
sufficient to enable her to become an effective ally to the of the Ordnance he had men on whose skill and
Western Powers. That was the consideration which weigh- ability he could rely, and thought that from their
ed with her Majesty's Government and with the Emperor experience he could derive all the information he re-
of France—it was not sympathy or admiration for the quired. When he said that in all matters regarding the
efforts which she was so gallantly making—it was solely fortifications of the country he could refer to Sir John
because her cause was our cause; but while England Burgoyne, that in matters nlating to the army he
and France were fighting the battle of Turkey, it was could refer to Gen. Cater, and that in the manufacture
absolutely necessary that Turkey should herself take a of munitions he could refer to Col. Welford, Col. Tower
part in the struggle. (Hear, hear ) He felt almost (as was understood) and Capt. Boxer, he was perfectly
ashamed to allude to the quibbles put forth by the op- justified in carrying on the operations of that depart•
ponents of the bill, and he felt that, especially in their meat, in full reliance on the officers under him. There
lordships' house, where they had been accustomed to was one matter of detail referred to by the noble earl
hear on all sides such well merited encomiums upon our which he (Lord Panmure) must not forget to speak of,
ally, there would be ample security for the repayment of and that was the extra field allowance about to be
the loan. The French had a high sense of honour granted to the army. He would state with regard to that
whether as regarded their international engagements field allowance, that it did not require any proclamation
or their commercial arrangements, and there could be no to carry it into effect ; but it would have to be done
fear as to their being ready to fulfil their part of the simply by means of a royal warrant issued to the proper
treaty. (Cheers) The Turkish Government had no officers. That warrant would be submitted to her Ma-
foreign debt, except the loan of 3,000,0001., which they jesty for signature within a day or two, and it would
had recently made. When he reminded the house that take effect from the Ist of July. It would of course be
the Turkish Government were ready to accept the aid of announced to the army, but not before her Majesty
French and English experience in the expenditure of the should have signed it.
money, so that it might really be applied to the purposes The Earl of HARDWICKE complained that bar
of the war, he trusted that their lordships would consent Majesty's Government were disposed, in both houses of
to the arrangement, and give the hill a second reading. Parliament, to throw back upon some party opposed to
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGLI observed that this them the blame of having made imputations against the
was the first time he had heard that any of the persons honour and good faith o our great ally. He would
who objected to the bill had impugned the good faith repudiate in the strongest manner, on the part of his
and honour of the Turkish Government. friends, any such intention ; they felt only the most
The Earl of CLARENDON had merely wished to say earnest and thorough confidence in the honour of the
that the objection to former guarantees had appeared to French nation and Emperor ; but such sentiments were
rest mainly on that argument. always to be left out of sight in pecuniary transactions,
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH believed there were where securities and documents were required. As for
very few of those who had opposed the bid that objected the general conduct of the war, he concurred with what
to give assistance to Turkey for the purpose of carrying had been said by his noble friend the (the Earl of Ellen-
on this war. There might have been soine, but there borough.) Why had not Odessa been attacked, and Ni-
were, he repeated, very few such amongst those who colaieff, where the Russians had their great shipbuilding
had voted against the measure in the other house. For yards ? Why was not a reconnaissance attempted there ?
his own part, he had no such feeling. It was now six- The siege of Sebastopol would be much assisted if our
teen months since he bad privately suggested to the fleet were to shell the town from time to time ; or even
Duke of Newcastle the propriety of giving pecuniary aid if some of our colliers and small vessels hada few 13-inch
to Turkey, to enable her to concentrate her army on mortars placed on board, they might approach near
Erzerouna Nor was he at all hostile to the principle of enough at night to throw shells into Sebastopol. In the
subsidies. It was only to the occasional misapplication Baltic, he had never thought that against the Russian
of that principle that objections had been taken. For stone fortresses any great maritime operation could be
what was that principle? It was this, namely, that it successfully performed, but we did not even hear of
was expedient to put in motion, by giving pecuniary ae- such common guerilla operations as might have been
sistance, a very much larger force of natives of the coun- performed by our gun:boats. The dismissal of our late
try with which we were allied than we could produce admirals, and the extensive preparations, had led the
of our own. It was by a system of subsidies alone public to expect improperly some great achievements in
that that great measure, the emancipation of Europe, the Baltic this year, but hitherto they had been disap-
had been achieved. It would be specially expedient pointed. What had come of those prodigious inventions
to resort to such a system at the present moment, which were to grind the enemy's walls to powder ?
when we were placed by the defection of Austria in Where were the ironsided ships of which we had heard
a position inferior to that which we occupied at so much ? He believed they were still at Sheerness ;
the commencement of the war. It was of the greatest they had turned out, as he thought they would, unsafe
possible importance that we should enable Turkey to and useless, and so far from being taken into the Black
provide herself with a large and disciplined army, and Sea or the Baltic, it was doubtful whether,they couldhe
that we should fortify the Bosphorus and Constantinople. be safely taken round the North Foreland. Now,otne end
If we were to make Constantinople another Sebastopol wished the Government to adapt their means
we should have a much better security for the indepen- they proposed. If it was a blockade whicheatun
ilhseeyettisntwenitdheind
deuce of Turkey than we were likely to obtain by any to keep up, ECI as to shut up the R
settlement on the basis of the third point. It was not their ports, and to be able to fight uhseiattussians when
simply with the present French government that we they came out, then let not the
Iptublic money be ex-
eoaa tnvi dlel aar dtio force
n
should be concerned. The loan must remain, even if the pended in a set of armaments utterly
y,
amount of money ur
sinking fund were regularly paid, for 40 years to come ; sous, and which cost an enormouseeblockade would . tau
and during the last 40 years there had been in France the Baltic, he thought a
otw ate -rcaeßgl lal se cents t Seaall efle easeff.
ht vdae
ise dt fee_
four dynasties and 'one republic. In the last 28 years soundest policy ; butd tion
there had also been 13 governments in this country ; and ferent, and there he would
mightz randely notop e h
it
that
he did not know how many more there might be in the that could be spare
next three. No doubt a certain degree of stability had Putrid Sea, and
upon one another
been given to 10 of those 13, by the fact that Lord Pal- or a bridge, or tSwesre&usefttones standing
if they
moisten had belonged to them all, but the difficulty of en- there. The
guivnetro the hands of our naval officers, there
tering into an arrangement like the one proposed was put thantel,"
much increased by the want of a fixed and settled policy was nothing our
_fleets', and. gunboats would not under-
not only in France but in our own country. (Hear.) they would fail to
If
ptaekrEfeen,rreilanG.dßsAcNarvceilyLLaEnyetahildngbeeedbi
he wished to divide two friends, he could not take a
more likely mode of doing it than by making them joint
The was derived from discussing did not think much good
our present military opera-
defectionguarantees for a man who was not likely to pay- .
bar of the government to go
and it was impossible for any mem-
of of Austria had been the cause of the necessity
btions in that house, •
assisting Turkey at the present moment.
It
wa
ds ill'eerry- now beeninto the questions which had
remarkable that, from the commencement of the
bad raised.n The noble earl had asked why certain
curs`ant things done. To some of his questions he
ences between Russia and Turkey, there was a
1 other questions
what the answer was, but
tendency to the approximation of Austria_ to the Wes• (Earl Granville) had a perfect answer, but that answer
tern Powers up to December 2, but from a period
he could not give. (Hear
shortly subsequent to that there had been a constant he had not the slightest ideahear.) To