The National Register.
London, England, 1820-10-15 00:00:00

THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

his evidence, should have had him ready to he produced
whenever he might be called. If there was anything in
this prosecution that ought nut to have been dune, it was
ti.. sending Rastelli ont as an agent in this Milan
Commission.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said it became necessary
that the friends of the witnesses for the prosecution, at
Milan, should be assured that they were safe; and no
person was thought so proper to satisfy them as Rastelli
going with bite's front the witnesses to their ft lends.
Mr. BROLGIIAM slid not rise to reply, but to remind
their Lordships that there was an end to all security
against the perjury of a witness, if he was to be sent out
of the country. " flow," said the Learned Counsel," can
1 go on with this case under suck circumstances !"
Lord HOLLAND commenced a very animated speech,
by saying, he rose to advocate the cause of justice. The
fact which had just come out at the bar of that House was
most monstrous—(blear. hear, hear.) When, at the com-
mencement of this case, it was contemplated that perjury
might he committed by some of the witnesses, it was
asked that there should be some security, that the same
cheeks and the same penalties would be enforced as in
ordinary- cases. The Learned Lord on the Treasury
Bench then declared, that although Governmint felt some
difficulty in detaining foreigners, yet that be would do
every thing in his power for the ends of justice. What
now appeared ?—Why, that one of these meo, who may
have been bribes: to appear at your bar—(llear, hear,
hear)—that this man, cross-examined by the Counsel in a
manner that spewed he intended to impeach his evidence
—this man has been sent away—(Hear, hear, hear).—" I
ask your Lordship (said the Noble Lord), I appeal to the
COIIIOIOII sense of the country, if you think that we, or
any men have that degree of character as to withstand
the odium. Rastelli was au agent. it had been said a
corrupt agent to the Milan Commission. This witness
who has deposed to some of the most disgusting facts, in
this disgusting inquiry, has been sent out of the country.
We ate told, as tar-as our Constitution weald permit,
every thing should be done to prevent any a ituesses being
withdrawn from justice, and yet this Man has been sent
away by that very authority which ought to have detain-
ed him. This proceeding will taint all your proceedings,
and this branch of the Legislature. This affair must be
set right before we proceed any further. No stronger
proof of a conspiracy could exist than this ►monstrous
fact; and your Lordships will du well to get rid of the
whole matter at once."

Lord LIVERPOOL, in the most indignant manner,
disclaimed all idea of justifying the conduct complained
of, and defied any man to state any eitcunistance in his
public life which could give a colour to such suspicion
With indignation he i 'spelled the insinuations contained in
the speech of the Noble Lord (Holland), which gave an
erroneous, fallacious, and inflammatory view of the con-
duct of the Government—(liesr, from the Ministers).—
" lent ready (said Lord L.) to admit that it was the duty
of those who are conducting this business to censure the
continuance of all the witnesses for the bill in this country
until it came to a close; that the circumstances of nue of
the witnesses being sent out of the country pending the
proceedings, was highly blameable; but I must acquit my-
self and my colleagues of all kuowlege of the fact—(Loud
cries of hear)—and I must say, that the Attorney and
Solicitor. General were as ignorant of it as we were....
(Hear, hear, bear!).—How then can we be charged with
conspiracy ?" The Noble Lord then stated that the cause
of sending Rastelli out of the country was the following :
—Rastelli had been employed by the Commission as a
messenger, and in bringing vs ititesses over to this country.
After the adjournment of the House it was thought neces-
sary to have more evidence, and ltastelli was considered
the most proper person to bring them over to this country.
He ass therefore employed, but those who employed I
expected him over before the House should meet. This,
no doubt, arose front an erroneous judgment, but front
an honourable motive; and there existed no intention to
withdraw the witness from justice. A? soot, as the fact
became known to the Attorney•Gi arra!, lie instantly
sent a person out of the country to (sting Rastelli back.
Now, whether this was a ground for charging Ministers
with conspiracy, lie would leave it the candour of the
Howse to decide.—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of LAN SHOWN L admitted the explanatien
as far as concerned the Noble Lord and his colleagues, hut it
certainly required the weight of the Noble Lord's character
to defend him from the charge. The necessity of a defence
from the charge, was one ut the calamities attendant upon
those proceedings.—(hear, hear, hear.)—But while the
House would acquit han of criminality, they were bound to
consider the effect of such a circuinstatice, us (hut of which
they had complained, upon the interests of the Queen. The
agents of that House had betrayed the trust that was reposed
in them . and was it at all fitting to visit the consequences
upon the Illustrious Lady:—lt had been an understanding
that the wituesses should be all fortlietanitig, amongst other
reasons, for the purpose of giving satisfactory explanations,
upon points of evidence, to the House. Had not that rule
been found must useful in the fuse of Majocci.—(Hear, hear,
hear.)—What were the House to think when teat so impart•
ant an evidence as Rastelli could nut be produced before he
couldshare time and opportunity to prepare himself to meet
a euittradiction 1 And all this because the people at Milan
would not be satisfied w ith any thing but his presence-so wove
that there was safety in visiting England I As if Itastelli
was the certificate of (lie disposal .... of the t ountry to treat
w itnessesw ith kiudnes.—(A laugh.)—The House was bound
to du all that possilily could be elate to repair the etl'ec t of
such a course upon the iiiterests of her Majesty.--t( Hear.)
The LORD CHAN CELLOit that ht• cerinioly cow
side' ed the IlleaStile as estremely If it arose (ruin
wind or jud,:theitt, lie should give it no hal slier a naine ; but
if it proem ded bout any thing of a worse mouth:l.oo name
could lie too bad fur it. " I cannot deny that an allot% anee
must be made for the absence of the witness. to the Queen'.
Cause, and 1 consider ilia those who sepport the Bill ate
bound to 'wog hall hat L. I consider Hiatt • examitattion
on a future day (email be so lieurlicial to tit ause of the
Queen as his examiteitiou at this itiotueid would be. You
me humid then, soy Lot tls, to make a littera' and I urge
think, it deed, it is impos•iltle to impair th
I injury alto; Cher. flat, cuott (il/11 1 au,jostice to she Queen,
as well as 14 the tothilt), do that t lose titrrc 11.0(Tea.114', in
Ili, bt.lAt! of (11. NiUL' Lard CO14'111(1(1 a I.lo'lol,
Melt he delivered With great energy, by tailor; upon their
Lords!iips to proceed it tilt the evideree until Cie witoet.s
should return, nod upon his return, to make a large allliNallCC
11.11 the unioi notate circumstance that liad Occult red.

Laid CAIRN AliN'ON.—" 1 agrut, Nitic thc• Noble Lord.
hint Ibe hum.) i 3 its i•parrble ; but l must add, al,d In
d •ini; 3u I ?peak ilitt'sciii;g3 the uuly ►emcd)

Is to put an end to these proceedings—these abominable
proceedings—altogether—(Loud dies of Hear, and other
evident marks of a powerful sensation in the House.) No
man who wishes well to justice can wish otherwise. The
Queens defence never can be restored to the position ft
now bolds, and it therefore becomes us, if we are not de-
termined to outrage all public feeling, all common sense,
to disgrace the country in which we hold so high a eharac.
ter. and to degrade even our characters, it becomes us to
abandon this detestable Bill. Substantial justice can never
be done in this House upon this subject ; and if we pro-
ceed, we shall be subjected to the execration of all honest
Englishmen, and the contempt of all mankind. A system
of extensive snbornation has been proved. The witness
who is accused of it has disappeared. Those who eon•
duet this prosecution are, I say, in fault ; and if this Hill
should pass to the other noose, it is impossible that it
should he entertained for a single moment, for it would
excite agitations of the most dangerous chat acter, dis-
grace the prosecutors, and overthrow the most glorious of
institutions.'—He concluded by moving," That the HOUBC
should adjourn to this day six months!"
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said, it would be most fatal
to her Majesty's reputation to close proceedings in this
stage
Lord GREY said, he never felt greater difficulty than
at this moment. He trusted his Noble Friend would not
persevere in his motion; but if he did, he should give his
assent to it. The Noble Earl opposite had done himself
honour by the manner in which he had reprobated the
fact of at uding away this witness; but he must say it was
a great deal more than ill-judged—it was most pitons.
No person connected ss Oh the prosecution could be ion.
rant of the necessity of keeping such a witness as this
ready at hand to be examined when called upon. In what
situation were the Counsel fur her Majesty? They had
trusted to the pledge given by the Noble Earl opposite,
that the witnesses should not be sent out of the way, and
no .v that they resorted to that pledge, they found it of no
avail. It was impossible that substantial justice could
be done. To use the words of the Noble and Learned
Lord on the ‘Voolsacb, an injury had been done to her
defence which could not be a holly repaired. Looking At
the whole proceeding, and more partienlarly to the situa-
tion in which the illustrious defendant was placed by the
forfeiture of the pledges which had been given to her, he
could not, if the motion was pressed to a division, do
otherwise than vote for it.

Lord LIVERPOOL agreed that if substantiat justice
could not be done, the case should be suspended alto-
gether. But lie was convinced that substantial justice
might and Amalfi be done. Her Majesty might even be
benefited by the postponement of Bastelli's re-examina-
tion; for the effect of it might probably be to set aside
the evidence of that individual and all connected with
hint. If the House were to suspend their proceedings,
they would neither do justice to her Majesty, nor satisfy
the public mind.
Lords LAUDERDALE and ELLE/MC/ROUGH followed on
the same side, against the motion.
Lord MORLEY hoped las Noble Friend would not press
his motion; a division, in the pres:•ut stage, would be ex•
tremely painful to the private feelings of their Lordships.
Lord ALVANLEY wished to know who was the person
who hind sent Rastelli out of the country?
Lord UV ERPOOL.—I believe Mr. Powell.
Lord CARN MIXON would not press his motion against
the feeling of the House, but he would only withdraw it in
order to substitute another, nit imly, that her Majestj's Coun-
sel should be asked whether they thought it material to the
defence of her Mkjeety that Rastelli should be examined
iininediately
Lord HOLLAND spoke at some length, and with great
eloquence, against proceeding with the same till the fact of
the existence of a conspiracy to suborn witnesses should be
established.
Lord ERSKINE said, as his Noble Friend had agreed to
suspend his motion, lie wished that the Counsel for her Ma-
jesty should be asked if it was material for the defence that
Rastelli should now he called in and examined?

Earl GREY moved, that Mr. Powell should now be called
to the Bur of the House.

John dllamPorellthenappeared at the Bar, and was ex-
amined by Earl Ala Y.

Ile staled—l was employed in the Milan Commission.—l
am now engaged in conducting the prosecution. I heard
the canonic of Kastelli nt this House. I recommended
his being sent out to Italy to assure the frieads of the wit-
nesses now in this country, that they were well; and that the
reports in Italy of their mal-treatment were exaggerated. I
'honk( it an act of humanity to do so.
Did you not know, by sending Hastelli out out of the
country, it would be impossible that he could attend here if
called upon?—itartelli went away on the Thursday Of Friday
after the adjournment, and L thought he would be bark
before he could be wanted. I ordered him to return by the
3d of October.

Who did )ou see at the Foreign Office/—Either Mr.
Planta or Lord Clanorillinin.

Did 'ea state at the Fureipi Office that he had been CAW
mined in this House ?—No, but I believe that it was well
understo:id that he WkS.

Witness further stated that, that he expected Rastelli to
return, tis three messages had been wait after him; but he
had heard that lie was ill of a fever.
Ton question from Lord A LVAN LEY witness said that
he had no means of enforcing the attendance of Itasiclli,
he refined to return.
It ate, agreed that Lord Enna IN a's question to the Queett's
Cotrusel should be put to-morrow ttttt riling.
Adjourned at twenty minutes to live u'. buck.
ELEVENTH DAY OF THE DEFENCE.
SATUR DAY, OCT. 14.
The Lord Chancellor took his seat on the Woolsack at
the usual hour. As soon as players had been read, and
the list called over,
The Eat! of CAIINARVON rose, and anode() to the
motion he had yesterday made and afterwards agreed 10
sti.peuicl. He said, he would noes; with permission of the
House, withdraw that motion, and suttustitNte :molter, to
which lie litoted there would be little o!ul. citon. But
previous to making this motion, lie wished to put
a question to the Noble Loud at the head of the
Treasury, respecting the pledge he bad gis en at the
cousimeneemetit of these proceedings, " that every 1111114
"wild he done to further the ends of justice, in respect to
the witnesses." Ile now wished to know ssbether the
Noble Lot d had given any instilictions on the subjectoud
to whom!
'flue Earl of LIVERPOOL said, be had not given. any
specilL; instructions. He had no difficulty iu exploiting

what oecnrred at the Foreign Office, as the passport had
been obtained in the usual way.
The Earl of CARNARVON moved, that Mr. Planta, of
the Foreign Office, be called to the Bar of this House
immediately.—Ordered.
. The Nohle Earl then moved, that Mr. Powell be called
to the Bar.
Earl GREY moved that Counsel on both sides be
called in.
Mr. Poweaa appeared at the Bar.
The Earl of CARNARVON.—Mr. Powell, you stated
yesterday that Rastelli left town on the Thursday or Fri-
day after the adjournment of this House; that was the
14th or lath of September?—Yes, it was. I left town on
the Friday, and I believe Rastelli left the day before.
Do you know whether Rastelli was not ordered to take
despatches to Sir C. Stuart, at Paris ?—I do not.
When you nenl Kameda abroad, in what time did you
calculate his reaching Milan ?—ln seven or right days.
What time did you understand lie was to remain at Mi-,
lan ?—I sent some papers to Rastelli which I wished to
have foraer legalized, and as I conceived them important
to this cause, I ordered him to return before the ad inst.
with these papers.
Was Rastelli instructed by you to go anywhere except
to Milanl—Nowhere except to Milan s he was to go there
direct.
To the best of your knowledge and belief, have any
other persons been sent away ? I have neard that two
others have gene.
At the time yen resolved to send Hastelli to Italy, did
you inquire as to the probability that any uf the witnesses
wonkl soon lie permitted to depart? 1 had made no in-
quiry on the subject.
You have stated that you have received letters mention-
ing that Rastelli was ill. Front whom did you receive
them ?—From Colonel Brown.
Have you got these letters r—Not upon me.
Have you had any cum 1111 l rice:ion from Rastelli
have not ; nor have I made any to him.
To Lord LANSDOWN.—I have already said that I
did not instruct Rastelli to go to any other place or places
than Milan.
To Lord 51ORLEY.—I mentioned at the Foreign Office
that Rastelli was to go to Milan as a courier. It was pre.
viously.known to Lord Liana initial and Mr. Plantar the
Under Secretaries.
To Lord DARN LEY.—I certainly do not consider the
witnesses inCtitton-gus den as under my direction and con ttttt I.
Lord LItSK IN E.--If that sus your sole object, bow
came you to send I
must have caused some delay 1 I did not send the papers
that he might legalize them; hat I sent the papers to alilais
that they might lie legalized there. l expected they would
be legalized in sufficient time to he brought hack here by
Itrestelli before the ail October. I left Motto the direction
of Colonel Brown.
What were the names of the persons to whose families it
bad been thought neceasary to send ?—Francini, aLijocci :
1f I could see a list of the names, I could point nit more ;
but my recollection does not serve rue now. Rastelli was
also to bring letters to persons in the neighbote hood of
Milan.
Did you give instructions to Rastelli to gait Milan, and to
the neiglitimiring countries where the families of the witnes-
ses resided, and give i hem the assurances required ?—I do
not recollect having given any precise instructions to him to
do so.
The Marquis of LANSDOW N E.—Then it was by means
of those letters a hieh were brought by Ita.stelli, that the
families were to derive a knowledge of 11w witnesses ?—fly
these nod the pea oval appearance i.f Itastdli ; and I thought
that Rastelli would probably he sent from Milan to the
countries iii the neighbourhood.
Had you any reason to expect that It astelli would, with-
out any instruction from you, go from Maio to the various
eountries where the families were, and give assurances to
them by his personal appearance there?-1 recollect that he
was to gi t letters to the families, and to give assurances Ilia
the witnesses were safe, mid I concluibit that Col. Brow
would send him to the pieces in which the fumilLs were to
give those assurances.
Would it lie possible that Rastelli could convey to those
places the letters, and by his piesonal appearance make
those assurances, without incurring a greater delay that' was
permitted I—As I have already stated, he left on the evening
airtime 14th, or the morning of the 15th. I capsulated that
he could get to Milan in six or seven days. This would
leave eleven days before the 3.1 of October. The distance
he mould have to go then to the families, was to aleuxur,
which is ten miles, and to Come. which is 23 miles.
Lord AUCKLAN D.—Can you state a 'tether the friends
of the witnesses were in testate of anxiety it—l 410 not know.
Ds you know the number of letters that were sent over
I cannot tell.!
Lord ELLENBOROCGIL—Didyou send any letter to
Col, Brown upon the solaria of Itastelli's mission Yes.
Hove you gut it /—(Afit r some hesitation)—Yes.
Can you produce it /—I can. It contains a great dead
of matter open other subjects; but whether it is my
duty, consideinig the situation in a hick 1 start) to pro-
duce it -----
Can you produce that part of it which treats of the
Mission of Rastelli I—After a short hesitation—" it is
altogether a comfidestial communicalbm, and 1 du nut CODA-
der myself al liberty to produce it."
Lord GREY.—" I understood you to state that you
have in your possession a letter from Col. Breen, about
Rastelli's mission to Milan, Can you produce it ? Not
the whole of the letter, but that pair of it a hien relates
to the mission?-1 consider all communications made to
me by Colonel Brown as confidential. I therefore object
to the pi oil wino of the whole or any pal; of the emirs-
pried, ace to or linen Colonel IS:own.
1.01.1 G must call neon the lionse to decide
boon the imestion, aliethei the witness is to be compelled
to produce the le lei ?
Mr. Poet era • I object, in the situation in which I
stand, as sli4l ut 11/ ,leis case, to the production of any let-
ter to or from Col. Us ow u.
The Miiiiiii..lloll of this witness was of extossiVo
%%1111011. oh ;my material tact.
Joseph Plataa, Esq. was Bum called in and examined by tot
Peers.
Are you Under Secretary in Lord Custlereaah's Office I
I am.
Uri you remember an application made in you by Mr.
Powell, di September, fin a passport for Itastalii P.. Mr.
Poach' came to WC and Said it had ecru liliC11114;101 10 WOO
RlVitalit abroad OS e ourter, and ih..ireit mute 01 take tine
ulfi-
steps tor that ;rot pose. I COosoliiit:litly Old% led the pass-
port, it arts to .1 by I ~..it....;ls..eiragh; hilt signal
pass-
ports are kept in 'l)3 office, ready fur anti and

THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

LOllllOll.
SUNDAY, OCTOBER Is.

THE Defence of the Queen has already developed
even more than the most devoted partizans of her
Majesty could fairly have presumed. It has shewn
that her ,Majesty has not only not been even indis-
creet, but that not a shadow of levity attaches to her
conduct.

The evidence of Lord Guilford, Sir William Gell,
Lord Landaff, and Mr. Keno' Craven, proves, that

• 77' •

333 •

r at the very time when the conduct of the Queen is
stated to have been barefacedly suspicious, that
nothing objectionable could attach to her. The
evidence of Sir William Gell completely destroys
the statement of Sacchi respecting the charge of un.
dressing in BergamPs presence, and shews that no
undressing was necessary, and that there was no
indecency in her dress; the history of Bergami's
introduction to the family of the Queen, is also
completely satisfactory, and from the circumstance of
the Marquis Arguilliers taking the affectionate
leave which he took of Bergami, it is quite clear that
I3ergami could not be of a family or character that
would be unworthy of a seat at the Queen's table :
it appears likewise that his fellow-chamberlain, a
man of rank and an Englishman, did not think it
unworthy of himself to be ranked as chamberlain
with this Bergami; and even supposing that Ber-
gami had not been of a good family, and had been
of a very low extraction, why should not services,
especially of a really faithful kind, which he per.
finmed, entitle hint to be raised to a more honourable
situation, and especially when such rise was under.
stood, its case of good behaviour, to be a part of the
contract. Does a Bishop or Peer think it any degra-
a:ttion to sit down at table with his secretary or
steward ? No such thing. The nick-names of title
and rank really make men forget themselves, and
many a Baronet or Lord, who has, perhaps, only
obtained his title by selling his country, forgets that
it is nothing but the breath of a King squandered
upon services which are a disgrace to the performer,
that gives Lim the artificial elevation which sets
him above others, ten thousand times better than
himself-
-"My Lord. your Highness' are the masks that hide
" Their little beings, and exalt their pride."

When the English attendants of the Queen
left her, was it not a sort of natural right that
Bergami, who had been in the same rank and
employment of the most respectable of them, should
be entrusted with a confidential situation about the
Princess ; and when surrounded by strangers, and
in danger of spies and enemies, was it not natural
that she should have a man nearest to her, in whose
fidelity she could trust? So that, in fact, the groat
ground of the Queen's enemies is cut away frOns
under their feet, viz. the first appearance, at first
sight, of a menial servant raised to a confidential
'situation about the Princess, now Queen Consort.-
But there is a much more important fact still now
clear, or at least sufficiently clear to demand inquiry,
from the interruption of the Attorney General
respecting the passport granted to the Queen ; not
in the name of the Queen, but of the Princess, after
the Queen had become Queen Consort. Does not
this make it plain that the Pope's Court had re-
ceived intimation from the English Court that it
would be disagreeable to the English Government
that the Queen should be acknowledged as Queen?
Does not this refusal to acknowledge her as Queen,
square with the conduct of the Ministers in avoiding
so long to mention the word Queen as relating to
Queen Caroline? Does not this slim that there
was a fixed determination to un-queen her ? At
all events, does not such determination agree
with the encouragement of that evidence resulting
from the Milan commission, which looks new so like
like a conspiracy ? And does not the conduct of the
Pope imply a correspondence with the Foreign-office
of the English Government, and thus bring home
to Lord Castlereagh a reasonable suspicion that he
was a party to the conspiracy ?—We implore the
country now to demand an inquiry into the conduct
of the Foreign-office upon this occasion! and espe-
cially when we see again that the Attorney General
so pertinaciously opposed the introduction of evidence
to contradict tile evidence of Majocci respecting the
Baron Ompteda and the pick-lock work, which he
must have remembered, and which he clearly knew,
having Uttered, at it appears, " to kill Ompteda for
his baseness," well might the Queen cry out,
" What! you, Traitor!" after seeing such a hero
appear on tkc stage as an accuser, and astonishment
indeed, must she huye felt at the diligent exertions
of her enemies to get such a witness!!!

Since writing the above, a most important fact '
has comae to light.—Govcrument has lent.its aid,
to the escape horn punishment of one of the lead-
ing witnesses against the Qucen—a witness, who
would, hut for the friendly interference, have cer-
tainly stood in the pillory. Is such rascally eondut•t
still to have the advantage of ministerial impunity
—or will a general Bill of indemnity, tbr all acts
to a certain period be passod in favour of Ministers,
as it was to shield their coadjutor, Mr. Edwards, of
Cato-strcet notoriety.

Thursday se'nnizht a detachment of tee dOth
reginicitt t inbarkett at Plymouth on boar.l :t trans-
port, and next day sailed tor the Meititerranean.—
The remainder of the corps will be embarked Ex
the same destination as soon as transports arrive for
that...purpose.

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