The Sun.
London, England, 1855-05-26 00:00:00

I give up our rights in exchange for the renunciation of her i their capital. We might possibly have been obliged to
preposterous demands. She had incorporated provinces have afforded them military assistance to enable them to
empire. into her vast empire in spite of us, and he would ask, if defend the heart of their empi The treaty between
England were to retire in dishonour and disgrace, whether Austria and Turkey has enabled Outer Pacha and his valu-
the whole of Germany would not at once fall under the able army to co-operate with the troops of England,
actual dominion of Russia? (No, no.) An hon. gentle- I France, and Sardinia, in whatever operations they may be
man said " No, no." He was sure the noble lord at the called upon to perform. Now, then, the Russian Govern-
' head of the Government would not say " No, no." '
Had anent has been obliged to keep a very considerable army on
we succeeded in inducing any of the minor states of Ger- the frontiers of Galicia, in order to watch the proceedings
many to take part against Russia? No. And why? Be- of Austria. Austria has therefore kept upon her frontier
cause they were afraid of Russia. If we were to fail in our a large Prussian force which might otherwise have been
expedition, and withdraw our troops from Sebastopol, tho directed to other points. It is, therefore, untrue to say
honour of England would be sacrificed in the East, and her that the position of Austria has' been of no advantage of
prestige would be gone, like that of ruined Venice or de- the allies. With regard to the negotiations, would it
serted Genoa. The right hon. gentleman admitted that as have been polite and right for England and France to
we had proceeded the demands of Russia had diminished. have refused the good offices of Austria to obtain if
That surely was a reason for proceeding still further. He possible the assent of Prussia to those terms of
had listened with great interest to the peroration of that. peace which had been settled between the three
right hon. gentleman, but really he must say that the gen- Governments ? If we had so refused, we should justly
tlemen of that school to which the right hon. gentleman have exposed ourselves to the severe censure of this
belonged seemed to fancy that the house gloated in war, house and the disapprobation of the country. We might
and wished to make war for war's sake. He was surprised indeed be blamed if, trusting to the chances of the
to think that the right hon. gentleman, after sitting so negotiations, we had abstained from taking those measures
short a time near the hon. member for Manchester, should wnich are requisite for the vigorousprosecutton of the war,
have already become so mush contaminated—(laughter)— but this has not been the case. Although we have been
and he could not help considering such contamination a negotiating at Vienna, we have omitted, nothing that we
great misfortune to the country. (Hear.) He thought could possibly
have done to prosecute the war if no nego-
this war might have afforded a glorious opportunity of tiations had been taking place- We h LV.3 adopted every
doing a great good. England might have sustained her measure which wrs in our opinion calculated to place our
ancient reputation and maintained the character which was army and navy in a fit state for operations in the cempaign
displayed by Cromwell when, on being invoked on behalf which is about to open, and what has been the result ?We '
of the Rill iois, he said, ,4 you are a miserable people, but have in the Baltic a fleet which as soon as the ice disaP-
you aro of the same religion as ourselves ; Youshall not be pears is ready to blockade the Russian fleeting its own ports,
oppressed ; England will defend you." An hon. member as was done last year. We have in the Black Sea a fleet
near him said, "That is what Russia does in Turkey." cspable of any service which they may be called to per-
Now, he had never known Russia interfere when there form; and we have an army—of late exposed to lament- ii
was a real case of oppression, but she generally interfered able sufferings, but whose sufferings are nov over, and
when the Greeks were gainiug too much intelligence. who are now in a state of perfect efficiency. The health of
He would state to the house what, in his opinion, might that army is good; its equipments are complete; the
be done on this subject. It was admitted that the declare- ceunni4seriat arrangements are good; the hospital esta-
tion of war had put an end to all treaties. Now, why re• blishments are excellent ; and there is nothing omitted
vivo those treaties ? Why not say to Russia, " The treaties to render that army fit to undertake any service which it
are at an end—we will put an cut to all this protectorate may be called to perform. Assain, the French army has
—no protector ate is required either in the principalities or been reinforced ; we have the Sardinian contingent fight-
in Servia" ! The inhabitants of those provinces did not ing side by side with our troops ; and wo have a
dread the Porte, but they did dread Russia and Austria. large Turkish army in the Crimea. Altogether we
With regard to the Christians, the Porte could not and have something like 200,000 men there ; we have,
would not dare t , interfere with them. He would abolish in short, done everything which it was humanly
all protectorates. But if it should be thought necessary to possible to do to carry on the war, in addition to the nego-
tiations in which we have been engaged. I deny altogether
have some mission at Constantinople to hold communica-
t
tion with the Porte, why not authorise the representative that the language we have held has been ambiguous at all.
of some liberal Government like Sardinia to submit to the
Much criticism has been lavished on the conditions in re-
Sultan to wch we ave ang. ng to th
any act of oppression ? for when an act of oppress
g
t hi
hird and most materialee pointnegoti , I mustti remarkPassi on the man-
e
sion was brought under his notice, it was very speedily re-
nor in which my right hon. friend (Mr. Gladstone) was
dressed. (Hear.) There was one good proposal in the pro leased to treat that question. He said you have come to
tocols which had not been carried out, and that was the
propose' for the union of the principalities. Now if that an agreement, either actual or prospective, on three of the
had beencarried into effect, Russia would have been obliged fo poits and now you are quarrelling about one half of th
fourth point. That is a very convenient method of disposeto remain on the defensive—she would not have dared to
ing of the matter. (Hear, hear.) But supposing the re-
cross the frontiers, and Turkey would have been enabled
maining half of the fourth point had been the possession of
to husband her resources, and might have been enabled
Ho St. Petersburg—(hear)—supposing it had involved some
to extend her commercial enterprise. (Hear, hear.)
great diminution of the territory of Russia—(hear)—my
w would no refer to what had fallen from the noble lord
right hon. friend might have said the same thing. But it
• (Lord John Russell.) The noble lord said that Bomarsund
is not mere arithmeticalcalculations but far higher-interests
endangered the northern powers, but there was not a word
about that fortress in the protocols. He gave a touching that we have to consider. Why, the third point contains two
p
description of the corruption taking place in Germany, but portions. The one was to attach more closely the existence
o
we were going to lighten the bonds. Nay, more, the noble of the Turkish empire to the balance of power in Europe.
lord said something about Polish nationality, and held out My right hon. friend might have treated that matter with
hopes that he was going to put himself at the head of the comparative lightness. The Turkish empire has ever since
movement for administrative reform. Were these the the treaty of 1841 been recognised as a portion of heviews of the Government ? If so, they "should have his Europeah balance ; but do you preserve the country from, ,
vote. But he should like to have an assurance that all
aggression by saying that it forms part of the European sys-
this
was not to end in such a disruption of the calm as tem ? That is, indeed, an admission of a principle, but in
they had lately seen, and in the noble lord again addressing point of actual value it affords little security to thecountry
them from a remote corner of the house. They had the to which it refers. The second part of the third point is
what is really valuable. That was, that the preponderance
same thing last year; the noble lord made warlike speeches,
of Russia in the Black Sea should be made to cease. It
but in the dissolution of the Government it appeared that
half of it was for war, and half for peace. Let there be was that preponderance which was the great source of
either war or peace ; we could not have half of one and danger to Turkey. and it is the cessation of that prepon-
half of the other. Last year we commenced war with a derance that would afford to Turkey the greatest security.
dvided Cabinet. Were we to carry it on under similar So long as Russia has in Sebastopol a large fleet ready at
1 circumstances? (No, no.) An honourable member said any moment to sally forth, yell to carry with it large are
" No." Last year the house could not get up the tnies, it is perfectly evident that Turkey iof exosed to a
standing danger, and that the existencethat fortress
peace party in the Government. They abstained from
and of the fleet which it shelters is a standing menace to
all declarations of their opinion ; and the house had
her. It is obvious that the greatest security that Turkey
now ne declarations similar to those of the noble lord could have, would be the reduction of the naval prepone
from those members of the present Government who
derance of Russia. But I understand that my right hon.
were suipected of being in favour of peace. The re-
friend said, it would be humiliating to Russia to reduce.
suit of thsse half-and-half measures had been a certain
amount of disgrace. It was owing to them that the expedi- that preponderance. If Russia be sincere in her declara-
tion to the Crimea had been put off until the last moment, tions that she has no intention to invade Turkey, or td
and the troops were sent to Malta in the expectation that make any attack at all on her independence or her integ-
they would have to be brought back. He was in the great- rity, I say it is no humiliation to her to make that reduc-
est difficulty as to what course to take in the division which tion. (Cheers.) But it is said there would be danger to
was to close this debate. As an independent member he Russia by the dimunition of her naval power. Turkey
might bringa large fleet from the Bosphorus or from the
knew not which way to turn. That was the feeling of Mediterranean, country tie did not know whom to trust. He had ex- Mediterranean, and threaten the Russian forces. This is
defied that h right hon. gentleman would bring a the first time I ever heard of security being required by
definite motion, but he had been deceived. He did nee the wolf from the lamb. (Laughter.) Then, on the other
attribute that to the right hon. gentleman, upon whom he hand, we are told that the best security would be the
believed great pressure had been exercised. It seemed to opening of the straits to all powers, and the ability of the
him that the only way out of the difficulty was to support Sultan to call on his allies wheneverhe was threatened with
the amendment of the hon. member for Kidderminster danger. But if you open the straits you expose the Sultan
(Ur. Lo e e),' which seemed to him to embody the general to the presence of the fleets of all nations in front of his
feeling of the house. The feeling of distrust was gaining so very palace, and to the greatest possible danger, and that
much ground in the country that there was danger of its it a condition to which no independent sovereign would
aspw submit.cnoayyws
temtorh anro nefuacallingt,steseilthreatened
Thene.
nid
oi
awtft,
ohiihtsreahst
tirosk:etadanttigyhs
assistancee e
nro
danger.
t,
,Bal tTiamthnoeai
fr;ehkro
mieusyfleooadrcul
krlaiefeel
referred
t‘avonyt
whenever
et
nhbs haveeiuynytoe,rtrt t”hihal it:
producing the most fatal results. He entreated hon. mem-
bers on both sides to express themselves definitely, and let
the country know what they meant. Never, perhaps, had
man posiessed more power than did the noble lord (Lord
Palmerston) when he acceded to office. How had he
treated the country? Had it been creditable to that if Russia is threatening Turkey, and if an expedition is
august assembly, had it been creditable to a man who was preparing at Sebastopol, any treatyisto deprive the Sultan
at the head of a great nation, which he might have led to of the power of calling to his aid the fleet of any nation
honour and glory ? He would not recall the scenes which that may be ready to assist him whenever danger is ine-
lied again and again been enacted in that house; they were pending over him? But we are contemplating in this ar.
too painful. These were great times, and he called upon rangement not a period like the present; we are contemn
tne noble lord to show himself worthy to hold the reins of plating a period when peace shall have reduced the navies
Government—worthy of the position in which he was of England aucl France to ordinary peace establishments.
placed, and of the confidence which the country haul re- (Hear, hear.) But if it should be the system of Russia to
posed in him. The country would willingly go to great maintain a standing army and fleet of enormous proper-
expense in support of the war, for they believed it to be tions after the armies and fleets of England and France
just, and that great results must come out of it They shall have been withdrawn, the Sultan wodld be at any
were not afraid. They were not disheartened. They were time threatened with danger ; and this is the state of
not sick of the war, but they were sick of those who had things we are providing against. (Hear, hear.) It is
the conduct of the war. (Cheers.) • all very well to say—" When the Sultan is is danger let
Lord P ALM ERS FON—Sir, the hon. member who has trim call you to his assistance." That argument implies
just sat down has truly said that this is a great country,that there is to bo aggression on the part oeßussia. (ar.)
that we are at present in a great emergency, and that the I remember sow() years ago, when all the armies of the
country will follow any leader who will lead it to honour continent were swelled to an enormous amount, and when
and glory. In spite of what has been said by the hon. all Europe felt that such large forces could not be brought
member, and by any of those in this house or out of it who into the presence of each other without the danger of con,
have found fault with the Government, I venture to affirm Eliot, a proposal was made that France, Austria. and Prussia
that those who are entrusted with the conduct of affairs should disarm. This was agreed to by those three Powers;
but when it was proposed to Russia, that Power said,
will, as far as human power may afford them the means ..We think a general reduction of establishments a very
lead the country through the struggle with honour and
eood thing; but it does not apply to Russia; we have
glory. I cannot say that I think the motion of the right
only 800,000 men, which is our regular peace establish,
hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) is one which is altogether.
ment—(laughter)—and therefore we will have nothing to
befitting the greatness of the occasion, and the magnitude
do with carrying this project into execution." That which
of the subject. I could perfectly understand a great party
appeared to us, to France, and to Austria, the best security
should think the power ought to be transferred to them,
against danger to Turkey from Russia was to call on
and that those in whose hands it is placed are not
Russia to renounce that local means of attack which
equal to the task which has devolved upon them, and should
created at all times danger to Turkey, whom she pretended
call upon this house to pronounce by its verdict the trans
she had no desire to injure. (Hear, hear.) For her own
for of power from those who hold it to those who wish to
defence a fleet in the Black Sea had been proved to be
posses it. But if that were the course which the part .
wholly unnecessary. For the defence of her coasts and
opposite was prepared to take, I must say that the mode
her ports any amount of naval power that she has must
to which they have resorted for taking the opinion of the
be unavailing, and must retire from the presence of
house is, I think, one which is fisting to the subject. I
the fleets of England and France. Against Turkey '
hardly like to descend to these verbal criticisms; but, if
she needs no defence, and as respects England and
you want to find fault with the Government, you should France her fleet is unavailing, and, therefore, there is no
find fault with something they have done. You should say
pretence why she should not limit her power in the Black
that you disapprove of certain conduct. But what is it In
Sea. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman who spoke last, and
regard to which the house is now called upon to express
,have
that
others, extended their view
to a wider range. They
its dissatisfaction? Its dissatisfaction is invoked upon have imagined any of those four points fall short of
" ambiguous language and uncertain conduct But, sir, the future security of Turkey. I think
"
I deny that our language has been ambiguous. I deny
nothing could be more inexpedient for a Government than
that our conduct has been uncertain. (Ministerial cheers.)
to hold out expectations beyond what they see their way
If the party opposite are prepared to call down upon us to accomplish. We are engaged in a great operation in the
the censure of the house, they ought to have laid down
Black Sea; we trust we shall be successful in that operation
better grounds than those stated in this resolution. How
and we think that success will lead to obtaining those con-
ever, I pass by that, and accept the challenge they have
ditions which, in conjunction with France,we think we have
given us. 'I heard the speech of my right honourable a right to demand. I think our duty is to confine ourselves
friend who spoke last night (Mr. Gladstone) with
to that in which we see our way—to that in which we are
adnairation no doubt, but also with considerable
now engaged—and in spite of all the mischances tint have
pain ; because it appeared to me that taking the whole of
happened I think we have turned the point, and, with re-
his speech, especially the concluding portion of it, his
sect to the Government with whom we are contending,
opinions wee® averse to the war, adverse to the expe lie
having refused the fair conditions which were offered it,
tion to the Crimea, adverse to the terms of peace upon
we aro now in a situation to feel confident that we can
which we have proposed to conclude the war, yet my right
carry on the operations of the war with that fair prospect of
hon. friend was a party to all these things. I regret that
success which England and France are and must be bound
any circumstances should, since he quitted the Government,
to attain. (Cheers.) If it were otherwise, it would not
have so entirely altered the opinion of nay right hon. friend.
be simply disappointment in a particular object ; it would
It appears that there are those who think we have not been
be, in fact, the abdication of a proud position, and we
sufficiently vigorous in the prosecution of the war, and
should sink to the condition of a second-rate power.
those who wish to drive the country to peace upon terms
(Cheers.) No man can be insensible to .the calamities
which I think were not consistent with the honour, dignity,
which war entails ; but I say there are things worse than
and interests of the country. With regard to the subject
war. (Cheers.) I say dishonour to a country is worse
of the war, I think it is unnecessary to go into details. Lts
than war ; the physical evils which would come upon a
justice and necessite have been admitted by all but a small
country worsted in an arduous conflict would be far greater
number of the members of th.s house. The necessity arose
than any which the temporary calamities of the war could
not merely from the events upon which the rupture took
' indict ; and therefore I say that that party, be they whom
place. Fora long period of time it has been the standing
they may, who would induce this country to abandon the
policy of Russia to endeavour to weaken and crumble down,
contest in which it is engaged, and to make a peace on in-
and ultimately to appropriate, Turkey as her own posses-
sufficient grounds, which are neither satisfactory to the
sion. It has been openly avowed of late that that was the
honour of the country now, nor as a security for the future
Policy of Peter, Catherine, Alexander, and Nicholas. It
—I say that that party, if their opinions prevailed, would
was the settled policy of Russia which broke out upon a
exercise the most fatal effects on the best interests of the
particular occasion in a manner that rendered further pas
country. (Cheers.) But I say the house is called on to-
siveness impossible, and drove this country into a war for
night to pronounce its opinion on two great and important
a just and necessary cause. I fully agree with the hon. mem-
questions. First of all, on the existence of the Ministry.
her who has just sat down that the nation feels that be- That, perhaps, vvoukl be a matter of very slight impor-
ing in the war we are bound to carry it on with energe '
tance if this was a sugar bill, the imposition of a new tax,
and vigour, and to conclude it by a peace which shall
or anything of that kind, and it would be one on which
not only be honourable to the country, but shall accom- Parliament might decide simply on personal grounds. But
plish the purposes for which the war was commenced. That
there is a far greater question at issue than that ; and
purpose is the protection and defence of Turkey, not merely
that is the policy of the country, the conditions on which
from any sympathy which we may feel with her as an in-
we a,re to stand among the nations of the world, our alli-
dependent state, but because the balance of power in Eu-
ances with foreign Governments, I could almost say the
rope—an expression which involves the great interests of
future reputation, the honour, and the deep interests of
the civilised world—is concerned in preventing the cedes
-
the nation. (Cheers.) The obvious object of the motion
sal power of Russia from extending over those wide and
of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) is that this house
important territories. We have been told that the war
shored pronounce the present Government incompetent.
has been calamitous. We are ready to admit, in beginning Well, who is to succeed us? (A laugh.) We are told we have
suddenly on a peace establishment a war with a great an- not shown administrativeability, and that we are not united
tagonist after forty years of peace, that it would not but -
among ourselves. I deny both the one and the other.
be expected that in the administration of the different de-
(lranical laughter from the Opposition , ans weredby counter-
partments there should be mistakes and mischances, which
cheers.) Is it in the opposite ranks that we are to look for
occasioned great evils. But it has been said that we made
that perfection and unanimity which is to characterise a
a great mistake in going to the Crimea. I contend that
Government equal to the present emergency (a laugh)?
was precisely the expedition which we ought to here un- The Usher of the Black Rod here advanced to the table
dertaken if we meant to bring the war to a speedy and
and summoned the house to attend at the bar of the House
successful termination. It is said, " You ought to have
of Lords, to hear the royal assent given by commission to
sent your army to Bessarabia. You ought to have held out
certain
your hand to Austria and gone into the field side by side with On the return of the Speaker,
your Austrian allies." If we had gone to Bessarabia—if •
Lord PALMERSTON resumed : I think I have some
your armies had entered the principalities and
reason to complain of the impatience of the other house in
gone into the interior of Russia, they would have been
not waiting for the censure which the right hon. gentleman
fighting far away from their communications, from
opposite is desirous of inflicting, but in prematurely admi-
their basis of operation, from their supplies and
nistering the Reel' (A laugh.) I was proceeding to say
reinforcements, and there was no point which, when
that the question which the right hon. gentleman has
achieved, would have produced any ,conclusive result, or
brought forward is an invitation to this house to declare
led to any decisive issue of the contest. We went to the
Crimea and to Sebastopol, because it was robe the Black Sea that the present Government doosnot possess les confidence,
and is unworthy of its support, and the natural inference
that the danger to Turkey principally lay ; cause, if we
is that some other party is entitled perferably to the con&
had succeeded in taking Sebastopol and capturing the fleet,
deuce of the house and the country. One reproach againstwe should have given Turkey security from the impend-
those who now form the Government is a supposeewant
ing danger. That being the blow which, when struck,
of unity of opinion and a supposed disinclination to ad-
would best accomplish the purpose of protecting Turkey,
ministrative reform. Now I ask the house whether they
and would, on the other hand, deprive Russia of those
means of aggression which were most to be apprehended, see on the benches opposite greater unity of opinion than
they see on this side ? Why, if we take domestic affairs,
that was the place to which our troops could most advan-
-1 ask whether the opinion of the would-be Government
tageously have been sent. It is said that we put ourselves
inciter
upo a of the verhieat
too much in the hands of Austria, that we trusted to ne-
whicn h relates to the mode ignhwsthiimportance,ch the people are namely, th
to he
gotia.tions, and by that means did not prosecute the war
educates!, is to be taken from the right hen, gentleman
with sufficient vigour. That is totally unfounded. I think
the member for Oxfordshire ? (Cries of " oh, oh," from
it was sound policy for this country to accept to the ut-
the Opposition, and cheers from the Ministerial benches.)
most the good offices of Austria. It was good policy to en-
If we are to judge them by our information, by their fo-
deavour, as far as possible, to get Austria to our side—in
reign policy, I would ask whether the foreign policy of
the field if we could—and if she was not prepared to take
that would-be Government, especially upon the matters
arms and fight with us, at all events to have her friendly,
and in policy concurring with France and England. Thu_ t now in hand, is to be inferred from the speech of the
We have at 9
Austria to declare herself an active e honourable and learned member for Enniskillen, or from
yea have accomplished. It has that of the noble lord the member for Lynn—whe-
ther it is to be war with vigour or
her good offices.
neutrality. Let not the h
France. (Loud cheers.) Againpeace at any price?
with
lity has net been a powerful military capacity, it was not long ago that the bead of that
respect to administrative
eeaaygs
it n
e the
that benefit
the
noefn
thr ear.
party had a commission to-- form an Administration,
seotnfog?ta: lig ei
engaging
ew,arniat,tihi ol
Turkey
o wo fedEtntohg
ecl
defend
ns,asiii il.t,mnhi
ar
and the noble earl, putting the good of his country
diversionlf insteadinfavouorf
beyond all question of personal ambition, or individual
warily Turkey in that direction, principalities she had
an army ou the frontier to - in
aermies to advance to-
feelings, greatly to his own credit, confessed
not the party that belonged to Jura the elementsthat he had
oi
been oblia4dio keep Turks would have)
I-.i•. . . , .
misoeni:tltthasllaylte(bl uttnlevephosiviceyhao 1 .