The National Register.
London, England, 1816-04-07 00:00:00

NAVY ESTIM vrEs.

In the Committee, Sir O. WARRENOkIt moved. that asum not
miceeding .13,4011. 1::s. bd. be granted for the service of the
Nat y Puy Office for the present year.
MI! IIFN NETT ar:idell to the office held lit the Right Hon.
Ow. (Mr. Rose; of Treasurer of the Navy ; and objected to
the grant of 40001. a year for the pay of that Officer. The
Noble Lord, he observed, had beta conipelled to withdraw
the Arral. Estimates, to make some reductions; and he saw eo
reason %S 11::, under the general distresses of the country, sonic
reduction shuald not trke place in the Cit it Department of the
Navy.- -The Hon. Gent. moved, therefore, to reduce the Trea-
surer of the Navy's salary to 20301. a year.
Mr. Rose e • pressed his satisfactioa at the manner in which
the Hun. thus. lieu proposed the redoctiou. He did not mean
to say, that his labours were worth 40001. a year, but he wished
to °tiger v. tha• at the Revolution the Treasurers of the 'Nils
had 20001. a )ear, to which office wax attached many perqui-
sites : but in order to reduce these profits an addition of 20001.
a year was Mile in lieu of them. Now, he did not see why
be should be in the mark for reduction, nor would it be im-
puted to him th t lee clung to office. I usti ad of its being as
office of little tiouble, he had to assure the House that he hail
Often been up two hours before daylight to attend to the

THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

coLec ros of Las uftice, wbich were far from being of n trifling

nature.
Mr. larnaterr was not aware what ocenpations the Right
lirm. Gent. had inked with tie. duties of this office, for he had
many !vet:jot:tams ; but he must ,ay, that one hour in the day,
as he was informed, was sothrient to dischatge the ditties of
Treasurer of the Navy. With relied, to the other offices in
the naval departments, he should move to IrrdllCC them in
rhtt of enwhenent. Bat, however, he supposed the Right
Hon. Gent. 'mid not object to receive 30401. a year, and then
proposed that sum instead of •ICOOI.
Mr. RA111.A.411 was in favour of the reduction ; not from any
person.' feeling towards the Right Hun. tienthanon, but Ii ow
a convictiun that retrenchment illetcry possible any was ne-
cessary. •
Mr. Rose stated, that the Clerks In his Office enteresi at sa-
laries of 7al. they were ten years in the office before they rose
to 991. and must be in the care a long ilk beffire they obtain-
ed d salary canal to what the lien. Gent. (Mr. Barclay) gas e
114 prineipal elerk.
Mr. Tllo7dPSoll paid an honenrable testimony to the public
character of 31r. Ruse ; who, lie said, had ale ..ya been the
steady friend and protector of the lower classes of people y
and, he belies ed, salualfie public servant. He wished that
the Right Hon. Gent. would complete his chat:icier and 'bane,
by relinquishing now a sum of Wool. a year out of his salary
as an example to others. The fortune ofthe Right Hou.
could *ell earthly him to do this, and his eamnple might have
great effect on others.
Mr. ROSE was greatly obliged by the flattering manner in
which the Hon. Gent. had spoken of hint ; and he might be in-
duced to follow the lion. Gentleman's advice ; but that he had,
on one occasion, given tip a salary of 10001. iu hopes that others
would hese ffillow ed his example, but not a aingle person had
done so—t hens, !war.)
Mr. Losu Mr. R.DINION and Mr. Mmtniorr were against
ally reduction in the salary of the Treasurer of the Navy.
Mr. Ptiesrox supported the Amendment ; and urged the
advantages which would arise from an crumple set by so old
and honourable a servant of the Public as the Right Hun.
Gentletnau.
Mr. Baxitea was against making advance in salaries; the
state of the country would not admit of it ; but he was equally
~vase to reducing the salaries of Officers, who for 30 sears,
had performed the duties of their office in a most eflicient
inaimer.
Alter a few words from Mr. Forbes, Mr. Bennett, Mr. Mar-
riott, and Mr. Fhallev, a division took place—Per the Amend-
meet 21—For the °Vilma motion GO—Majority -Li.
On re-admission tutu the gallery, we found Capt. Per.r.aw
speoking. He was calling the attention of the Ummilittee to
the hardships suffered by sailors on foreign stations, owing
to he system which at present existed of keeping back their
pas whilst on for.-igil swims. This measure, lw understood,
was intended to prevent desertion, hut he was well convinced
that it had a contrary effect, and that the hardships and imposi-
tions to which the men were thus subjected, caused very fre-
quent desertions. He did not blame MiniStelS fi.r this system,
it existed long before they came into power, but he dal now
recommend to them, as a time of leisure had arris ed, that they
would turn their attention to the subject.
Sir 0. Hoes: was persuaded that the men did not consider
the system which at present existed AS a hardship. The gene-
ral desire amen to serve abroad was a proof of this, ;and many
men to his knowledge declare that tt•eir desire to go abroad
arose from the very circumstance of having all the it pay to re-
ceive on their return. lie was so well convinced of the policy
of the present mode of paying the sezuncn on foreign stations,
that he should oppose any attempt to th;er it.
Capt. PIiLLEW repeated what lie had before said. He had
known men alien abroad, take np slops, and other articles of
that description, of the Purser nil di•ctunt, for which they had
been charged a pound, and which they immediately sold for
half-a-crum n, to buy thenwelves soap and other necessaries ;
and thus he had known men, after being abroad 13 or 14 years,
on their return, not have inure than three or four years pay to
receive. He should not propose ally measure' but should sug-
gest that Commissioners should be appointed to pay the men
whilst on foreign station..
Mr. yonnes was in favour of the plan suggested by Captain
Pellet He could assure the Committee that the hardship
sustained by the Officers was even greater than that telt by
the common men. He had himself known instances in which
the Officers had been under the necessity of paying 24 and 30
per cent. for the discount of bills whilst on the India station.
Capt. WALDF.GHASE was also of opinion that the present
existing system was one of very great hardship, and one which
called loudly for alteration.
Mr.Roce considered the plums proposed by the Hon. Captain
(Pellew) as impracticable. It could only be done by a regu-
lar establishment on every station. He was ready to acknow-
ledge with that gallant officer that it would be a very desirable
object to base the men famished either with pay or necessa-
ries.

Admiral MARKHAM WB3 desirous that some plan should be
adopted for pay lug to seamen and officers part of their pay.
He had known instances in his ship, where officers drawing
for 251. in 11w Mediterranean, had leceived only 111, or 131.
Mr.Caoaart contended,that any change of the present system
would be to the disadvantage of the officers as, with the ex-
ception of the year 1818, the ENchange had been always in fa-
vour of the officers of the Navy,
Mr. BARING said, this was surprising ; as, if the Hon. Seem-
..try's statement Was correct, officers must hate contrived to
draw on terms much more advantageous than nurchnitts could
do.

Mr. W. WYNNE remarked upon a snm of 17041. for messen-
gers, fire-lighters, porters, ..sec. Some of these received a
salary 0f.24i1. The commissioners had recommended that nu
messenger should hare more than 1501.
Mr. BnotaHAM wishrd fur some further explaintCon on the
sub.j.-et of the Foreign Exchange, Is Lich the Hun. Gentleman
said bad ales ays been either at par. or fa% tunable to this country ;
whilst, in all the enquiries before the Bullion Committee, it
was stated that the Exchange was aeiiinst us.
Mr. H•MMERBLEY and Mr. I,vlTrs.l us, of their own know.
ledge, were able to state, that in the 51editerranealt, in 18011
and 1510, Exchange was from 20 to 25 per cent. against the
officers.

Mr. YORKE defended the statement of Mr. Croker.

Sir J. P. BEREt4'ORD believed the sailors would be very
sorry to be paid abroad, anti not have any momy when they
came home. He had never heard :my sailor wodi tor his pay
abroad. Such a plan would render the men discontented.
Voting officers might entertain an opinion that this would be
acceptable to the men, whereas it would render them tits-
,at +shed. _ _ _

Mi. Fonans, and Sir IL C. Funuuson contended, that the
navy should be put on the same footing with the army, as to the
gates of foreign exchange operating on their pay is..roail.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, regular paymasters actumpanied
the army abroad a but that *am sot tha case w,th the fletti

APRIL 7.

and therefole if the Howie should adopt this plan, the) most.
new

The goestion uaIN then put,.that a sum of 43,8641. 12s. mi.
should be grunted, to defray the expcnce of Works and cons
tinkenctes in the navy-office.
. .

Mr. M4RTIN woveil an amendment on the contingencies, by
leaving out 70001. from them, us the Secretary of the Admiralty
had not yet produced the proper accounts on that putt of the
estimates.

On this Amendment the House divided. For the Amend.
mot, 571 against it, 153—Majority 06.
The sum of 411,19.11. Ss. 4d. was then voted to defray the
salaries and contingencies in the victuallinviflice.
Sir O. ABRENDER ON, nosed a sum of 27,5331. 26.
for the officers of Deptiiiiti yard; which was agreed to. lie
then moved a sum of 32,0001. fur the expellees of Wuoksicti
dock-yard.
TIERNFY Caateaded,that a Commissioner was not want-
ed now at that yard, with two boats' crews, Ne.
Sir G. WARIUNIIEIt maintained, that a Commissiont r was
necessary to be established in that yard permanently, in order
to check the commons loss of naval stores.
Admiral MAR/L/4.10: was of opinion, that this Commissioner
could not cost the country much less than 20001. a year, ex-
clusis e of his house.

The sum was then voted.--45.0001. was then voted for Chat-
ham-yard; 25,021. for Shecrness.yard ; t;0,7551, for Ports.
mouth-yard; 4•2.1321. fur Piyinontli•yard; 07941. for the Outs
ports; 57,1 tgl. fur the Foreign-yartle.
Mr. ISAR Nu contended, that there were mote Increases in
the salaries of our officers in the foreign dockyards. The
stirveyor of timber for Nova Scotia was au useless office, as
there was always u provincial surveyor In all parts of our
North mcricati possessions.
Sir G. Wsunrienide understood that this officer regularly
corresponded with the Navy Office, and was assiduous iu pre-
serving the thither fit for the navy. The Hun. Baronet then
mm d a start of 147 OM. for the officers of ships in of dietary.
lie then moved 1311,61;,I. fur victualling the ship-keepers and
men of the vessels in ordinary.
Mr. BARIKG said, that there was an appari nt eNCCSS of
40,0001. on this charge, which certainly required explanation.
In. 1813 the men were victualled at Is. a man; lint by these
estimates they are charged at is lid. a Inall • so that the excess
of this was io,tif-G!. over that of the preceding year; and yet
provisions of every kind were so much clue iper, that dm*
should be a diminution of one-half instead of an inert ase of
one-half.

MI Canaan thought this a case requiring a %planation, and
capable of being fully explained. 'flee estiu.stei of the former
years aere tatting, and mould nest meet vide the esigeticies or
the service. The Admiralty had now brought the peeper esa
dinettes fully before tl,•e House. For 26 years betrdre 171.16,,
there was no difference in the estimate s in this respects but
Mr. Pitt then made the estimates be corrected to what they
ought really to be stated at. lei ibito, the harbour estimate
was ar Is. and Is. ad. while the se-a estimate vcas raised to -Is.
id. per diets. But now the Admiralty had made out a ;;; i ; nits
and genuine estimate, stick as should have been i.rodeterd of
1896. At present the seavictualling: was Is. bd. and that of
the harbour was Is. bd. a man per diem.
After some further observations, the motion was agreed to.
'lke following sums acre then voted: —132,149 fur harbour
moorings, &c.; 35,1801. for repairs of ships; and 1,110,!,-1-Jik
fur half-pay to officers, widows' pensions, &c.
Capt. PELLEw noticed the distinction between the widows'
pension in the army and navy.
Mr. CRo►6R stated, that the widows of naval officers, if
they meta on balfpay, obtained their pensions—not so widow,
of army officers in similar circumstances.

The -following sums Wele then voted:-
72,7001. for the Superannuated List
2,153,.-013 thr repairs of Ships of War
470,151; for provision for Garrisons, &e:
61,303 fur Salaries of Transport Office
1,411,011 for Service orrransport Office
112,904 for Sick and Hurt Stamen
6.50120 for Prisoners of War
2,100 fur Superannuated Clerks.
The Report was then received.—Adjourned at Half-past Twos