The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1820-10-17 00:00:00

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HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, Ocr. 16.

The Lord Chancellor took hi. test • few minutes before
ten o'clork. Prayers werr read, and the names called over.

Mr..latnes I).we. appeared at tie Barr with copies of
writs ordcred by Parliament front the Ha'taper Othce,
Ireland.

The papers were put in and read. They soinnioneed the
retuin of hiril Dufferin, as a representative Peer fur Ire.
land, in the ninon of Lord Hendon.
The Counsel were then caned in.

Kari Grey said, that before ibe Counsel proceeded to their
eaaminat ~,,,, he wished to have Sir J. fiererfurd, who was
in attendance, calk) tit, that he mitflit put a few question.
him se.tocctituttlK rharich•r und conduct of the VIIIIICOI
%Valliant Carrington, who hail bean examined at their Lord-
ships' bar.

The Earl of Liverpool was raderaloud to say, that he could
have no possible °Net ti )))) if the Counsel hod none.
Mr Brougham and the Attorney-General built assented.

Sir J. Beresfurd was called and sworn, and examined Iy

El?! Grey.

Are yen s■ Admiral its his Miijrsiy's service '--1 ens •
Rear Admiral.

Did you at any time doting the war common', the Poit,
tiers' I did.

Du you remember a person of the name of William Car-
►ingh.a serving on board the Poictiers ! 1 do.
la what rapacity Mil be serve? A. quartermastei.
Was he newer otherwise rated than as quart; rmaster
Not while I had the command of the .hip.
Did he leave the ship in consequence of Isis misconduct,
Or Was it ■t his own request At the request of Sir IV.
Cell I prim-ivied lis discharge hum the acting Captain
(Junes) by getting Captain Jones to rate him as my s Irrh,
and areordibgly he was rated as a midshipman in order to his
di.chsr. gr.

Then he was rated by you as midshipman previous to his
discharge No, I did not rate bun.
Win he in fact discharged as ■ midshipman from the
Poicliers lie was ; and he was discharged at Sir
Gell's resoles', and not in conairineoce M. any ill conduct in
him.

Did you give hies any certificate on his leering the .er.
vire I gave bin. a certificate of good behaviour—whether
befi,re or afire he left the sirvice I cannot say—he was a
very grand man while I commanded the ship.
You du lint ruessider that there was any thin; am... in hia
comber', either before or atter hi. quilting the service
While be ass in the Ail, there war never a better man; as
tii the irregularity of his discharge, it was entirely my
Dolt nod wet William Cairingtou'i, who was a very excellent

Hy Imril Mel•Nk—Are we to understand Gum you that
Carrington o. tier was Titled as iviitlshipinrin while yUV COT.
mended that ship He never did duty us midshipman while
I commanded the l'oicliers.

Do you recollect Lavin any conversation with Carrington
al to his hewg rated as midshipman, or being brought uu
the gssarter'deck ? Never.
Do on revolter' his ever hawing complained in you that
he did not like the service, and that he wished fur his dis-
charge He never complained to inc
DM he ewer state to !nu that he did not like the service.
aid Mal he wished en that lICCOMiI to be dischai get)
J. Beresford retitle/1M to he ftllois-ed to stale fully to their
Lordship's the tiiiNIOSOCe of what hail palsied. Sir Ant. Gell
had asked for the discharge of Carrington, who we. called
before Sir J. B,rinford, and expressed 10 Ste Juhr kW sexisms
desire to be elotborted, lierais.e he did nut like the service.
The discharge was edicted in consequence, in the nianurr
before alno-ribroll.

1:).4* Sit J. Bereafued recollect baviNg soy correspondence
with the Admiralty relative to Caeringion'm discharge I
newer had airy cutrespondesice with the Admiralty limns the
anhjeet, neither w to there any curreapustatenee to my know.
ledge. If iliete had bets I cool., ant have civets him his its...
charge, berll...te that would hate heels *tying in the fare of
the Adisti.sity, which Ist lit thud: vet y itisproper. Capt.
Joules, the meting Captain, thsehargtd CArri helms, at my re.
yaps iand if all, bt.itne ta to (all .0 consequence or that
act. I hope it • ill attach to me ahoy.
By the Viet uS Latiderilale--tt as th. re ■ny engagement
from you to Cirringitiu, that hr ►iwuhl he rated as lshii..
111 ato, or any rothestatultsw b foie hr went on hoard the
Perlis's, that he should be rated as isinishipinan • Nu.
Was there any engagement that he should hr rated other-
wire thou as Ustarteitassler ? Not by sue.

earl ink yur as to any nndr►lskuse beirern Captain
Aries and Carrisixtun, as to his being inuniss..l p
but dial their envier ill your Initerkslse any reitagensreit
mask by Ilse acti,g Captain, that Csrriosiuu slsuitlit be
rated as mnlshorinno !
Mr. Scorpion of jeleil to this question, anti it was over-
rulrd.

By the Lord Chaiseellor—Did William Carrington leave
the eervsee iss lbll Yes. . . . .

Was be rated as a midshipman twelve months before he
left the 'risme ? He litter was a siiidaliipinau to my know-
Do you know if he recsiveil midshipman's pay for his
Retrace* iii the Poi, tiers! The ship's books will beat skew
that; I should say
The Lord Chinicclior directed the foregoing question sod
mower to Iw shuck out.
The Duke of Clareoce directed some remark to the Lord
Chancellor, epp amid ly by way of übjectiou.
The Lind Chancellor a soil, that had nie question been in
his uwu mind inlirrarow be would nut bate put It. Elul it
was aliewe that the ;lira ira'a hooks would prove the point about
*loch the Willie.. was ipiestioued ; lilt batik Were the best
eveileuce, and most be loodoetd.
By the Earl ut Lauderdale—Did you direct Carrington In
go on board the Thisbe and ask tor any patois .7 1 do mit
recollect that; I gut him on the Thisbe'. il.14)1411 iu order to
get his pay, and, ilwri feie, I ibiuk it is probable that it was
as. I filet charge my no miry.
At what lime dot you get him put on the hooks of the
Thisbe? lie was discharged from gibe Pooches' tutu the
Thisbe, to get his ply, in June or July, 1511
Ilad Cariington ever any reesuis given I to a %pee pro.
motion during the flair lie was see ying as quartermaster
riot while 1 was in the ship.
Dol Carrington ever state to you any difficulty as In pro.
curio;; dress and his maiutomus.te as midshipman No; if
he had I should have massolaisotil lout, as I did uthess, multi
lit: Will able to repay m..
51r. Brougham wu Is ii to lay the fonsoilation of to question
to be put to the wilier..., i.y erminitinz their Lorilahips,
that him' the evidence, although et mortared I het ear-
eingtou lied first of all rep. went rd hinierif as a mill.;opman,
he hail exploited Mat in fill leitllll.ll4ll p sth of his orationuoy
to memo sh:.l he understood to• was to be a inithilopossan fur
Nom. hs ;he could lit riwullect how many) before he
plait. 01 its ...5.a.e.., mid the last leatraumuy hr gave on Ibis
him, was, that he was not c. rosin how loug he bad he-en rat• it
a anidchipman, hot he was et emit* of his tiaviog Leto a mid-
shipman alien he Irfi the service.
By the Lail ut Liverpool—Coold William Cal rington have
understood that he was tu be *nand as a mutahipuuu previous
to Sir J. nrreafurd leasing the ',Wis.! This question being
objected to, the wittier' was asked—llad Sir J. Wrest-9rd so
acted to Curriogtou, or Car. ingtou to lion, as to had Carriug.
ton to .appose that he would be rated as midshipman, pre.
vines to Sir .1. Beresturil leaving the hoteliers
Mr. Brougham said the question appeared to him super.
Reims, as Carcinoma had stated that be did taut know bow
Woe he hail been rated midshipman.
The Lord Chancellor said the witness had twice sworn
Ilmt lie sun toichbirsos, end though be bad filially swans
what Nr.90'00030 had stated, the whole must bc.ltiehed at

Wax be ewer lea to believe that ha was Iwo-raw to he a
midshipman, and by whom • He was never led to expect it
from me. I wag going to gear an Opinion, which would per-
haps nut be eviariire.--,Cries nl " Order, order.")
Mr. Brougham-1 btg. thin nu party will interrupt the
witness in his an.wer.

Earl Grey—lt is 1 question of opinion.
The Lord Chancellor said, if what the witness was going
to state should tu►n oat nut to be eviderice, it could be
struck off the notes, but he thmight it would be going
too far ht say because She witness thought it would not
he evidence, it ahould therefore not Ile elven. If Sir John
Beresford were on a Naval Conti-martial, hi■ opinion
would mold probably hr correct ; lint here the prop►r course
wonhl be to hear what the winless was going to say.
Sir John lieverforil—lo answer to the Eirl of tilrerpool's
question, whether he was led 1., be by any other person
Sisal he should be made a mid,lopinaii my answer was ;w•
ing to he—The First Lientenani haul so good an opinion
of the m■n that I could not tell what hr might have held
out to hint in my absence.
By the Earl of l.anuk•rdale-1 whets to know if you ever
told him that he was to he onofik.piarier deck, and he
replied that he had no money io support Ititiorrelft here
Earl Grey thought that the aitur►a had stated that 'mown
to another pcnion..
_ . .

The Earl of Landerdale quotrJ Carrington's wood., as told
by him to the witness.
sir John limestord-i—He never told me any such thing, arid
after I knew he was to he Sir 'ltal. Grits ut, it MI/ ',coy
unlikely that I should propose to him to become au officer
in the ,ervtcs.

But Inhofe you knew Aid had you ewer stated it to him'
No.

Did he ever go on the quarter-An-It He never was ors the
qua, ter.deek as en officer above the rank of qoartermastt r.
By Earl Grey—Did Carrengtoso apply to you after he left
the Poicliers respecting hi■ pay He slid.
Can you recollect wits' pris.wil on that subject I thick
it was four or five years atter that I met him iu the street,
■nd hr said to me," Captain, I eau 1111 l get my p■y"
Drd you give him a litter to a gentleman irs Somerset
House ? I weal intself, Irr Karr him a ktter, I don't recol-
lect which; but I know I got him his pay.
Du you recollect ever speaking to him about quitting the
service? Yes; I remember emitter reproachinK him foe
qoilliag the service, particularly as be was so cumformbly
situated aboard the ship ; I was displeased ; 1 11111 not like
his quirt nig the service, end 11w reason he gave me for quit-
trim was, that he had been pressed into the service, sad 'lever
likrd the sea.

My question related to n time previous to his quitting the
service The answer be gave bush before and after quitting
the service was the 33me.

B*t he Mild thithlnZ of his inability In maintain himself
on the (limiter deck' I\u.—,Cries of " Read the last
question and answer.'"?
A eirn%iiterOtte se .01 literailiug in the Moose,
The l.urd Chancellor said, if Noble Lord. wisheis to bear
the short-hand writer, it winitil be as well if they were nut
threaders beard quite so audibly.
The last q mutton and ate:ner were then read.
By Lord Colei3e—lto vuu know if Carriurluee, whit.
doing duty urn bei.ird the !Weller+, knew what bis rating
actually was at Hid lime'

Mr. Lt :ham objected, that the RUIMCf of the witness
cots hi hot he evolence.

Lord Colville l'oller I VIA it wa■ a proper gluiest ion to be put.
The Lord Clrincellor tb..1,7.111 it had hiller hr putt t has—
Doc% Sir John Perri& td know from tiny fact or rib contstauce
within hi. own knowledge that Carrington did know how be
WO rated

The fillf Si ion • ae so put.
A. Every mast and ulliter in the ship knew bow he was
but of 800 men who were an board the ship, it cannot be sup.
posed that I can remembe► the rating of every tine after A
lapse tit ten years.
Are you certain that Carrinzton dot not know he was
rated quartermaster' I shoohl thiolt he knew it, as be at.
ways did the duty of quariermsste r.
By Lord Cumbermere—Die you know if he messed with
the usolatopmen ? He never did.
Did he rerruve the pay of Midshipman ur Quartermaster
I believe of both.

By the Lord Chancellor—According to the rotes and prac-
tice of the navy, is not esti, man rated arcor•hug to the
duly hr does on b.•ard the ship' Yes, volt rally :p•-uktnt.
By his Royal Highness toe Duke of Clarette.—During
the eindinuance of Carrington on board the Poicli•rr was
hr recommended to your notice by the First beideliant
Prot that I kuuw or ; he was a very treat favourite of the First
Lieutenant, bring a very rood man, and I may add that the
First Lieutenant was irry loath to iiart with hint.
Where isms the Poicliers employed daring the lime he was
on board that ship The first part of the time off Brest,
then at Lisboa, and is the North Sea.
Did Carrington come um board with a draft of men, or
when the ship was first eimismissioued! He came, as far as
I remember, with a draft of men.
During the cuotimisitee of Carrington on board the
Potato.", was the ship in course of pty • I can't say posi-
tively; I think she was.
The ship's books will lain Dolt fact? Of course,
your Royal Highness.
Do rot know where the First Lieutenant now resides?
The First Lieutenant, now Captain Alcoa, lives at
n.

The Doke of Clarebee moved that the ship's books should
be pilot u red.

- .
Lord Melville wlibril ll,e dales to be speci6e.l, as it (mild
owl be serene. y In produce the whuk of the ship's books.
The Lord Chancellor snot, the roper coarse would be for
so surged copy of so much of the .hip's books as related to
Ciamorann In be 1111.1 before the llunu•.

51r. ißrougham submitted that itu y should be 'Witted to
imp. et it.
The turd Chancellor—Qf course it must be .abject to
your insertion.
Mr. Brougham submitted, as it would save the time of the
Mow, that it was not uectsmary to produce the ship's boobs,
a. nu contradiction had appeared in the testimony of Car-
rington.

Vu the motion of Earl Grey, it was ordered that an attested
ropy of sueb pints Of Its. Pldelitri books be laid before the
llnti.e as related to Wm. Carriugtou, and that Si Juba
&milord have leave to quit London.
Mr. Brougham then addressed their Lordships, stating,
that in reference to what had occurred on Saturday, that
outwitimiastding the opinion winch had hero expressed by
SOME 111. their Lordships, to whose authority and judgment
hr was at all times ready to defer, that they could
taut esamme the trinities as to 1111111.1lelluilli het nem him
and bar Nlajesty's Counsel could not, tuoviaieuily
wills their *ease of duly, altogether waive the point they had
sought to esialiliali, but they would receive In themselves
I lie surto 11( roots' wiing that they should he entitled to ex-
amine as to this point, if they could by 111111 r aces hereafter
ishAlish that he had been essipluyi:d by the Milan Commis.
vim, in inocoriog witness,* against their clietst. Aual he
trusted that that Gut would now no longer he kept from
their knowledge, which hail hitherto beets concealed, cuts.
tun y to every principle of jostsce; for, to enable them pro.
petty to aoudad their defence, it was a most essential par.
licular, dist they should know who the adverse party was;
and ilw more be considered the stitudiun of her hiajeary in
that respects the more convinced he was of lb* necessity to
her case, of aseertanting that point..
The Lord Chancellor said, that the ensmination in chief
of a witness baring !teem caused un Saturday, has CTON-tX4-
n3iirinuto ouzlit now to be the first proceeding before their
Lordships; and however important and descry* of consi-
deration the matter refereed to by the Loaned Counsel might
be, be tinged it was trot regular to allow it to Warm be.

twerp the raaminalion of • 'Fitness in chief and his amts.
examination. Whatever applicator* with, he made t" this
Heave after that was terminated, their Lordships would ton
doubt attend to, and then they wuntd be able to judge of it.

Lord Calthorpe said, that he coedit not advert to what had
fallen from the Learned Conneel for leer Majesty onetime"
expressing his regret lhat the Noble Lord (Liverpool) at the
head of his Majesty's Government had not availed himself
of an earlier opportunity of staling. distinctly oho was the
Prost rotor in Hen case. It appeared to him that the ques..
lion before their Lordships was one iu which the State
was a piny; and 1w therefore imagined that the Crows,
not he the individual capacity of the permute who now goo.
Med it, but as the head of she Stair, was the party chiefly
ititereete.l. lie lansentell that his Noble Friend had out
taken an earlier opportunity of stating distinctly who was
the prosecut lug potty in the ease, and he was the
more disappointed to it from the wellntablished character of
the Noble Lord aged the candour which he hail uniformly
displayed. Ile Hunted it mint be allowed on all hands that
his Noble Finite! hail, by his emitted throughout this pro.
reeding, exentotifor el a duUnrltoo kennels a Minuier of the
Crown, as brad of ilir. Aiatr, sad • Minister of the King.
(Sots ttut7lretriiiois of diared gc
he were toeureect i
mating thesdislistetioir, he shonlit liehappy to lie set right
by those Noble lairds whine extrogive constitutional infor-
mation rendered Ili ne better judges than himself of its CM--
reel Ill'sol. This distinction did appear to him to Ise marked
by the conduct of the Noble Lord, and if lie wire cornet
ire his opinion, he tt glint the distinction should have
been clearly stated at an earlier period. Fur his 111111 part,
he lamented that it had not been earlier stated who was
the prosecutor in this insteute, as the Learned Counsel few
her Majesty could sin. Becalse it appeared to him that if
any advantage slid seise front representiug the proweistur
an impalpable, an inviable, anti au inscrutable being, all
that advantage wait on their side; tic they could and egai4ht
avail themselves of •II the odium which an naturally attach-
ed itself to the idea of any invisible or secret agency, such
as that of the Milan Commissioss. Bat he could not feel
himself satisfied wiihout some specific declaration as to the
party who es to be coiondercil as the poosecutur in this cage.
The Earl of livettpom. said, that in replying to the ob.
Huai of the Noble Lord who had just sat doyen, be
most in the first place express his surprise that this question
had mil been Marled in Ilse commencement of the proceed-
ing., rather than reserved for this singe. For his urns part,
lie frit no difficulty in stating bow he conceived the hum-
ors* to stand. It night be diffireill to make any etiology be.
tote,, their Lordship.' proceedings and these nu the Comets
below. He would, however, appeal to those of their Lord-
ships who remcmlwied the whole of the transaction, and
begged their enemies' while he proceeded to state his im-
pression of it. On a certain day, he believed the 7th .lime,
be brought doom to the House, and laid on the table rertaies
papers by lie C 11111111.41111 of his Majesty. The question then
was, how their Lordships were to pllPfteil is C4ll4lNAlteflCe of
the message he had the honour to deliver. Ile proposed
that the pa pees should lit referred to a Secret Committee. Many
Noble Lords objected to that course, and expensed their opt.
woos, that the Executive Government, or himself in course-
queen of the situation he filled, should bring in a Bill on his
own responsibility, founded in the contents of the papers he
hail mentioned. A Committee was appointed, smite delay en-
sued betore they entered tog their functions, to the cause of
which it was not accessary he should now refer. The Cone-
miner made • Report, and on the day of that Report
being brought tip, he l t.nrd I.iver pool', laid tin the table
• Bill, which, was not dm Bill of that Committee, but of
himself. On the ground of that Report, and of that Bill,
their Lordships had ordered the attendance of the Counsel
for this (toren, and of the Atioruey.Gesteral. He had •I-
ready said, that With respect to what had bens dune wader
the Milan Commission, he should have so objection, at the
proper time, that it should be made the subject of inquiry;
but he hail Ilse MUM dreidrd objections to its being mixed up
with this question, in any greater decree than it was ustu•
rally and legally connected with it. IVlten he Itemeght in the
Bill, lie lint contrived she the preamble would he proved,
mid the evidence which could be pities rd far that cud, had
been produced before noir Lordships. He should 1101 our my
one .surd in reference to any opinion of his own as to there-
tent to which the preamble had been supported by the evi•
detect.; but he most declare that, fur Ins 111,16 rail, he could
nut conceive how any minters whatever could be said to have
attended the course of this proceedinc..

The Marquis of lAntalown understood the explanation of
the Noble Earl to be, that flow Lordships had entertained
the kilt on the ground. he had stated, and called the party
to the bar. If that Homer was placed in she attoatiou of
hating, fur the convenience of its own proceedinp, cresird
the posies to this Bill, and placed them at its bar, he thought
it was incumbent un their Lordships to ascertans in what
way the case fur she Bell had been got up. He could not
noderstand how the Noble Lord could have felt any of that
astonishment he had expressed at this question smut bas-
ilic beta started before, considering the frequent allusion
which had kern made to it, both by Counsel at the
bar, and by Noble Lords is the House ; ■nd their provers.
lugs on Saturday had naturally raised the question, whe-
ther this House or some stukaown being were the prosecutor?
The case fur the defence at present was, to pruve a eon.
'piracy; far that purpose it was necessary to establish
the agency of parties, and that could not lie dose stolen
the party or principal were known. He therefore considered
that this House having instituted the inquiry, could not
have for it• object any thing hot the discovery of truth,
■nd it ought therefore to explore it by all possible means.
lie could not they fore but consider that they ought to
have before them that part of the correepondeuce between
Colonel Brown and Mr. Powell, relating to the abstraction
of the witness Rastelli, which he thought most important, as
loading to the ascertaining of the truth in this parti-
cular. With respect to the distinction taken by his Noble
Friend (Lord Calthorpe), between • Minister of the grown
and a Minister of the King, it was one in which be could
not concur. The Noble Earl was there as the Minister of
the Crown, and was only known th►re as such; and hr felt
assareol that the Noble Earl himself would not submit to be
cutieitir red in any other character.
The Lord Chancellor said he wished to impress on their
Lorihihips' minds, with respect to Battelle' absence, that
there was • material dilTeience between an immediate and a
postponed examinatiu•—the barite dictinctioss applied to
the case of a crosa-examiliatioit ; he therefore apprebeadeil
what their Lordships ought now to do was to prof red
immediately with the rnoss•exatuination of the witness, whose
examination in chief bad closed on Saturday.
Lord Calthorpe captained that the distinction he had
made hid tees impressed on his mind by the conduct of the
Noble Earl himself, who throughout tlw proceedings is this
Bill had seemed to rely ant ue his influence as a Meister
of the Crown, but on the taduence of his own individual
cliaract►r.

Earl G►ey said, in reference to the explanation of the
Noble Earl, that be bail nut recommended him to bring in
a Bill un his own nmpousihility, but a charge ma the
ference wee, that then the prosecuto► world •t once have
been known, sad this he thought mast material is toe Queerer
care. From the explauatiors which bad liters given, the
Government mart be token as the prosecutors • in this case ;
and time Milan Conturissioo, with Colonel Brown, to have
bees, their agents. itiganti had acted under them, and it was
therefore Necessary to chew bow fir Rigaati, as well as
others of their agents had carried their system of bribery
awl corruption in the procuring of wieuessm Bet if
this question Is sot allowed to be pot by skin, 1 *ball
give notice sow le your Lordship*, that l shall Ha.
depubteilly, after t►e crowiegarainstion and reawinseastios
are daished, submit a sontioso fur us to ksow every thing
abide Imo bees doss is this business, because it is material
fur se he knew whether ceeroption has been seed to rebore
witoreare.--(keor, bear.)-1 •bdl pat that soration, So too-
aaa I both of the propriety sod gamily of putting

it, that if an objection he taken I shall certainly lake 11.0
woke of llso Iloutsc upon it.
The Earl of Cameron. then rout to addrika their Lords
shirr, but, in Clll/111440PSCe the woke below the bar, aural
the low hose is which the Noble Lord ',whet we round ""
at first hear disliked, what he said--ht My laird., to tht•
caw theft is one particular charge, and nor that his made
the strongest impress utt your Lordahipe minds, I mean
iw Cases. nhe case, %shirk dues not seem to coo otct flu if with
soy other part. We hate only sine viten is coot by a Germs.,
Prince to he 'Rammed berme a Mmistri, mod afietwards
teat lo Hanover to lse examined—not before the Milan Casa-
mossion, sot before any Cominnwom which Its. hero accre-
dited by his Majerty'a Govertsenrot."
The Earl of Livrrpoul (as we understood bur) said, it
was perfectly tree that she had been examined to Germany,
Millet that it urns equally Ins she had afterwards Ikea teas
mined of Mika.
The Earl of Carnarvon—h Bet I wish to know who eon
make (boar Hanoverian agent. re•priniohle fro any tansprring
or for any Magenta. which they may and have used lo .reading
that wigwag. herr I say it is impossible. Arc we, my Linda,
to hams to is charge resting en the ..rte stogie
individusl.•nd that indertdrial foreaol to appear Si. fors you by
a foretops power, who had been teat to the esmital siorther
foreign power' We bare not the oul.llloll of Itnastio: what
power may have been earned by Slat power which Mlt no con-
nexion with us, and wh, had en right to int• 'tee stth our
procretlings, who., scents we have no mean. of catl.nj
fore us, whore lachos are ant accountable to no. I. It oot
proper, my Lands, that we shoot., Mime vsheth.-r these
Hatioverian agents did art ruder the cows 01, sod by the di-
rection of the Noble Fail and his colleagues. wins admit
thenotelves to be respoutohlre My Lora., W.I.'S% that re-
sponsobiltty is establials-d. I should contend list her Ma-
jesty's Counsel should he directed not to proceed. M• Lords,
we moist observe too, with reopen to the Callsrobe case,
tint it is not mimed up with any tither moot. 11 has been
proved is ersitlettce that compulsion has been loud on the
purl of the Sovereign of that hills and almost itivisthle ere.
pier. There is meow! ground to suspect, indeed we terve all
but positive proof, that as to that part of the case the coos
denim has been selected, examined, and grappl.ll wit), by a
little German cleopot.—( Hear, beer 1-1 lie • osk of this
arratagem•iit has passed between two little petty Groton rhos
lonisers,. I would ask your Lordships whi ther}rho would
Rio Into ibis quest • briber you would sutler any part of
the charges supported by the single wittiest' alone 111 b- 11w
subject of division ? My Lords, this question, shogratelled so
it is in all opinion—(Load armor il" the
moor of the mode" and °markt", must he looks)
We must know whether this ern:mikes only from the eolith-
toloinal advisers of the Car of C 11021144 or whether it 14
miaed up with the constitatioual advisers of the bitriT of
/hoovers—and perhaps it may Dot be lemony. r here to in-
quire, whether the constitutomal advisers of the Doke of
Coruwall may not have used their endeavours so bring this
konot4rable measure before us, in disgrace, and, perhaps,
to destroy the cousory.--( load cries of .• hear. hear ")
My Lyrae, as to this question of agency. we ought to sift. it
to the bottom, and ought not to leave it till •e buss so dorm.
My Lords, we may, perhaps, litre to see that before we are
railed upon to pronounce our vote on ill's Bill, Bait it may
become y fir us to sit mina/meta on the ermine&
adviser. of this miserable proceeding. There is another
thing, my Lords, the Noble Earl has said that when we have
finished with the evidence, our envy will he to decide who.
thee or not the preamble is proved. Not truly it cannot be
our duly to decide whether the preamble is rowed, but we
moot by as possibility come to ,itch a cutsclo•osii. The
ugly issue we can try is, whether tlits Bill, mixed op as .1
is, whether this shall be read a second time For soy other
mode of proceeding there is no otrglogy . If we ort to come
to such a vote as the Noble Lord hoe wiled, nut uo'y
must every principle of law be set aside, jos! ice I will cut
any, but all precedent that is to hr found anus's of
the country. If, way Lords, I had not stated thus much, L
should not have discharged my duty iu a way which I think
I ought to discharge it. Can we, my Lords, delibriately
place ourselves in such a situation that we might vote the
preamble proved, that wr might come to a vote •mountirg
to a mere censure, a sort of Iths-1 on any individual, and
afterwards possibly throw out the Bill :—j/cur, hear )-
1a what a situation, I say, should we be plscril ue when ail
Europe has smiled at our proceedings already ; I will use
no
harsher term—what, I say, would be tile effect if Mk
girat and august nimbi); were we at the rad of these proceed-
ings to vote that this pit-amble is proved, and yet upon
general principles throw oat the Bill ? la doing so we most
insult this uisfortimate woman—we cannot, moat out thi it.
—(('beers?—My lord., great as the responathility is, they
will nut venture to intrude upon themselves such a pitiptiv.
Slum so disgraceful. My Lauds, I hope no Noble Lord will
Hoak that it is consistent, in the name of consistency, to
vote that all the charge* are proved, soil yet turn out the
Bill. It is impossible so to do i slid if they shall give the
first vote contrary to all precedent sad ninon ineetw, the. I
shall hope, Los late repentance is better than 110.1.., that they
will proceed 40 throws out the Bill. They may chaoss their
opinion, and a late change is better than --whether
you think the charges proved or too, the. Bill may not pass.
l will ask, in God's massif, why have we gone tom this to-
fluky Have we aol gone olio the resat-nee Su aweriA
whether the Bill should be read a second limo ' For *bat
purpose have we quietly sat and heard all this ribaldry or the
bar '—for what porpoise lase we heard all this dot:rocs' ul
evidence? If I onderaktol any thing of pirliansetitaiy
proceedings, the Noble Lords who have determined t., g..
into evidence in support of tha Bill, did mem that ui
the evidence prove the driers. in the Bill, that then the
tall ought hi pose. My Lord% for myself I have said all
idiom that evolroce has wiltin g. to do with the Bill. I base
said all along, prows what you will l never will bear tote
thing of this 8111.—(liertr.)—My Lar.lt, I say we canotit,
unless we abandoes our duty, pas. ibis Bill, du what we on,
--(Hear )
Lord Melville moved, that the proper (Meer of the Ad-
miralty do lay before the House comes from the baulk of
his Majesty . slop PUlCtilti, Ow*, itlif bow Carri•gtuti VIM
rated titer. iii during his gel Vice nit tumid that ship, wheal
wan agreed to.

Philipps Pone you Men oalkti in.sed croseeramehted iv Mc

_
Ailuruey-Go InefSl.
Yois have stated that you resttled tea how,* at the Barons ;
oak him if that boom is now walled the Villa Bergson Yes,
ut pr t it is called the Villa Bergson.
How loot has it been 114 i walled! A little time ago.
How honk ago '? After that Ilembruica sold ii, shoat
three womb. ago.
Does be mean to swear that it was not called the VMS
Bergson Instil three tamale ago from this tome It was called
by some people so before Winton:a booght it, nowt alter
Bergassi bought it we always Celled it the IN's Liergamoi—
we have our lorgoo Iu call it the VIII. Bergson.

How butt is h since it was first called toe Vinn Bergsma !
He bought it in the year 1818.
After Hergarni purchased it, did you continue to seek
there as carpenter for ' 1 bare.
Ham be contiumed to work fur Weigand at the Villa down
to the present time? triaen be was the ma.tee 1 %evoked
for him; whim other people were the masters l worked for
them.

Whew did you last see Bergson? That I do not quite
recollect, it may have beer iu the mouth of August, I
believe.
Where At his
Did you see hum say where else, I have sees hive to vio
ether dace, for I Dever west out of the hums%
Dui yue sea him the day you kit the Villa &scans. I
did run

1100 Wog before? 1 left the Vala Berg oni es the 1211,
of frplember ; 1 saw kiwi ia bat [wool remember
the day.
Will yes swear that ye. did met Ke his I. the eleatb of

' 1

'1!

•1

V

I! I

i

Inpeesehm? I awed meat; it load More bees the MIMI
end of August or the bogie leg of September.
How may days was it befere Foe left the Villa Bergson ?
I don't know how asap days.
Was it • week ? More than a week.
• Was ant Bagami living at the Villa .Berami the.
be kft it i No, be bed guise away, lad I don't haw Inane
he lived. • .
Who dastard yea to come over here as a integer?.
one—my owe will.
Thea does be mesa to swear he mime volootarily, withal
say applicants. hairs' hose made se him fa Nat papas t•
I ramie here by ally own will, is came I heard that the
sus ste Cadasso was reeeiviag whammies, sad I west to a/
44 hat 1 had to say, as I knew something of that Lolly, who
had slime .us a great deal of good.
IM. Lashingtoo—He mid, " had doer a great deal of
" me."
Shaul Peers--" Me good"
listerpreter—Acterding to the deimmenedava I took,
toy first impression was, that the words were Ness pod;"
um as the answer was very lung, awl I had to put my marts
done so a confused way, Mr. Powell suggested to Me
that it was sot use good, bat good to every body. That is
right, certainly.
Asa bins what his same was? To me sad tb all the
• people of the Barosa—to the people to general. •
What do moo mean by a great deal of good; Jo pee mea•
to say that her Royal Highness had done • greet deal of
good for you, and for alt the people of the Hama Yes, all.
IM you mean to swear that you west to Codeine,
the advocate, of your owe stead, and that ao application
was made to you to come here to give evidence before yo•
went so him? I will swear that before any tribunal.
Did any person apply to you to go to Cadase before you
...tit to him ? No • I beard that Cadazu received witnesses
in farmer of this Lady, and I went of my own accord.
Were did you go to Cadasza ? Oa the 21st day of As-
pi.st.
Was Bergson then at the Villa Bergeron ? No, be was oat.
Was Bergson at Miles at that time ?
Mr. Denman observed, it was iaspoesible that the witairss,
who was at the Barone at the time, rand tell where Beir-
gaini was if he was sot at the same place.
The Attorney-Hewers' said that the wittiest, had stated be
want to Cadazzo, at Milas.
'I he question was then again pat.
He was nut, as far as I know.
any person desire you, Income over here as a witness ?
Nuns' but Cadman, who told me if 1 had any deposition to
make I might go, for my depositiou was a goud one.
Did Cadassu examine you ? Yes.
Was any other person present ? No.
Del you, in consequeice of what Carless° said to you,
cum . over hereof your owe. necord ? Yes, toxemic I tuld him
that if it had been a laminar, that required woe to go a
hundred miles, I would g.. williog!y, because I would go.
Mr. Drumm said, 1w vri.hed the operative to be again put
to the witness, foe the Int... Titter had stopped himself after
the word " became."
The Lord Chancellor there asked the Interpreter if be had
Oven Die witness's whole answer
The Interpreter answered that be had ; ad the Interpreter
fur her Majesty was of the same opinion.
After you had beenAexamineet lay Cadaaro, sad before
...or setting out from rely, did you see any other person on
the sob's. et of your corning here us a witness ? I saw another
Vigils), Advocate at Mitsta.
When was that? The day after I saw Caduso.
Vim was with the Eisend' Advocate ? I was in his house
saw co one in; I went there of my own second.
Doi you see no other person after you had seen the Eng.
114 h Advocate besides Carfurzo on this subject ? Not at that
tin..
Ai any other time ? When he the Advocate Cadaszo came
to the Barons, I saw him and another person.
It lin was this person ? 1 donut know.
MU he an Englishtnao or Italian' I believe he was a
foreigiier, Englishman. 1 did not speak to him; I
took them to sleeve them the home merely.
Do you know Vassal' ? Yes.
%%hi"' did you see him; was it before you set out from
Its:. Yes, it was.
Dow lotig hefore ? It was in the month of August; I
t!.. not know when, I have not the date.
%Va• it Lefore sir slier you went to Cadaun After.
Did tun come over to England by yourself or with other
raglans I came over with my head Master, Garolioi, sod
Slate other patisetegerr.
VI lirre did you we %%mesh ; was it at the Villa Bergman,
c• at Venice? At Ablate.
here al Milan? Near his house, I saw him as be was
r .tine Mill his carriage.
1.,•J you tall at his house? Never.
V. as that the only time you saw liajm I saw him many
t roes in the years 1517 and ISIS.
Did you see him at any time ein the subject of yam coat-
iog here as a wiiiie.s? I bare seen him Acre in this country,
ii Loudon. •
Pad you pay your own expenses coming over here, as you
• voluniarily 111111 out.
paid them My head muter, who paid the expenses
I.rnil.
is your head master' Garolini.
14 he your head master alien at the Villa Bergami ?
t'..
Wll3l are you to he paid fur coming here as • witness?
%at-. I went to the Advocate I told hint if ibis was to be au
a `!...1 of a Wile taar I haul uo objection. to to.
liiterpreter-.But I forgot the heat word the witness
'I lie Lord Chaucellor—Let the question be repeated :
w!.i.h was itecordusgly done.
V, ben I *eat to the Advmate I told biro if I was to go an
adie,l miles without pay for that illsistrous lady--.•
Taw Attoriwy-tieueral.—That Is kW 8111*Wer.
V. 11.11 are you to be paid for coming h. re? As to pay. I
es u,lua tell; when I weal to the Advocate I told hiss if be
• would giii something to my family fur their &upturn in
r•y aboe•site.l would gu to the end of the world fur that
• Tue. Interpreter--He twang by " that Lady," her Majesty.
1 you uwau to say you expect nu ihrog for cunning
Iliei a.' If they vin take case of my family 1 h eve uo expec-
-14 t inn of seemlier...time for coma; here.
%I bat was to be paid to your family thorium your absence ?
A f ries to my wire, sod Italia here to each of my daughters.
you 1111 yam per day ?
I. :hat alt you me to reeriv., or expect to receive, for
rominc here 'nips Is for the annuitants. of my family, but
v myself, if they give our any thing, I'll take it; if rut, I
• si gu w ithout it.
Dal you snake any agreement with any one for resnerne-
talon for turning IW11•? I ran swear this, because I have
u.soli- nu netau:um ; hut as there are 10111 C other people
inn lone some hopes, to have I tomes.— .•1 !aleph.'
'Utica am I Ist understand that you have hopes of learned
for timing here? I have no hope, ; and as I told you he-
roic, fur the btu' fit that Lady has done ins I would gu to
the end of (1w world.
You said, when you were here last, that Rastelli came
with the son 1.1 the heed master of the Villa Bergaini, what
is the name of theme,' of the head master Anthony Garoliut.
Is Anthony Garotim no archilue•, the same as his father
He is pone clever thou lilf father.
Did :awl yousie, Gnoliui on that oceasiou take a plea of
Me house ? Yes, he made a little drawing or design.
Did young Garoliul make the plan ? Yrs; when be came
to the Barlow with Delmont and Grroline and other
jp4'fbllllll went up it sirs, and they mule the drawing or plan.
Did prolog Gallatin' go sway with them when the plan was
made ? No, the others went away ib a carriage; Gartilissi
and ftastellt went out at another door, sod when they were
there they began to jump fur joy, sod congatulate each
other.
Do pun remember whets Berland was at the Barons, and
her Royal Highness there, that there was auy denim'?
Yea
Do you know a penes of the name of Antocini? He
was Lieuteisaut of the parish.
Whet is the extra of the Villa Bergami and its grounds?
I do mit know precisely; it is an came of one thousand sod
• bell pertaire.
How muck is a perchier? All this room I would sup-
pose to be half a perchiew.
How may acres did the estate cooties ? How am Ito
know , I MINN know acre..

• •
•. • .
Tast %ft.iii•elli.A•lapi, 1Pead:ww.011110 ‘llllO.
NAN
Were agatriketpowi Nibs wed Ad
when bee Ingham had impressoi 11 AWN; to esiawl
tbaillbollpfroot ewe apother assd woe falber. •
MIA Alper peesetse-wilve previa it these bells? AN
people were twooght up; from a Whir were bowed op,
sada mother owes Nom* op. sad tha-fother web reins.
_ Were Nen assay meows et a low 'beetle* A those balls
No.
N what siteallow of life were they' AN grateel folks;
1. wouldw 11 Arstaciai a jewthapao, rad ibe ANN were all
gastlefolks.
Beth seeks NM Amides? Yes.
Do yea bane, • person A the same of Maria ?
Perhaps she amp have goes there.
Who is she' Ido out below her correctly.
Does she not keep the puhlialionse called the St. Chelsea.
pher? You most have vitistakai the name of the landlady
who keeps the St. Christopher, for that is met nut her
name.
What is her name! Rosins.

How long has she lived there A longtime.
Was not she at those balls % Yes, because she was brought
by other girls. she came; she is a respectable woman ; she
is not a bed winwm.--(A innoh.)
Is she owe of the ladies you have described as gentlefolks
attendiag those balls ? Tes, she came, mid came only user,
this Rushes.

Is she one of those persons whom you described as yen.
tlefolks? She came only once.
Question repeated.
She wss the mother of another girl, who used to in there.
Is there anothe► inn at the Karoo' beside* the St. Christo-
pher! There is—Bergson is the master (owner).
Who lives in the hoer* There is an isokeeper there.
What Is his name Giovanni Angelo, •bo is now there, is
the son, bat before it was kept by his father—he is e4lled
Antonio.

His wife and hrr sister, did they route ? They came ►ut
ounce.

Who is her sister She has no sister, Italy a daughter.
Does be know a person of the some of Dawitsto, at the
Raton% a blacksmith ? No, there is no Dapttsto at the
Barons.

What is the blacksmith's Dame at the &roast? Aatonio
Hanoi.

Were he and his family al thine ? Nu, he han no
davighterr, only three runs.

Was he at the ball, or imp of his sum' No, I
say yft bem,

He
bas told us that he is • carpenter—does he remember
at ■ny time doing any work to • door up stairs at the
Barons? Yes, bare worked at a!I the doors of the house
at the 13sruoa.

Does he remember on one occasion ping up stairs to
mend a Moor at the Krona' How am Ito rem...Meer that,
went up slain, a hundred times.
Do you remember at the time you were mewling one
door up stairs, seems her Royal Highness any plate No;
at that time I hove not seen her ; I have seen her down
stairs, and in the ball, and other places, bat when- I was
encoding a door I never saw her.

Did he ever see the Prows* in any rams ep stairs' !
!rec. svn her in tier own rOitin.

Was it at the time you were mending She door you saw the
Princess in ber own room) No. it was when I was eirryiaig
• chest of drawers up stairs which had been put out of
doom.

Where was it rim saw the Prioress on that occasion to
her taws room. «tics I was carryitic the drawer, up stairs.
Was lie/game with her? No, I did nut see him with her.
Did you see Bergarni any where taro that occasion ? No.
Vain you swear that you did nut see !ler/anti on that oc-
casion in the Princess's lied-room? Yes; I can swear before
God to this.

Did he at any other time are Bergami in the Princess's
bed room? I never saw hint there—never.
Have you never silted that you saw him in the Princess's
bed-roue.' ? How can I ten such a tieing when I never ass
him.

I am sot asking now whether you ever raw it, but whether
you ever said you saw Berigaini and the Priuees,■ toxeiher in
'terrain's bed room? l tu:il you 1 know nuthiseir at all of
Ibis affair.

Will you swear you never said you saw the Princess and
Berganie torther iii the Prietress's bedroom? Yes, I ems
swea► tt before God that 1 never saw them tog. thee to her
ewe, room.

I don't ask you whether you ever saw them together in
that room, but whether you ever s.i,l you saw them together
there ? I said I knew nothing of this business; it was not
I who went pp slams, for tittle were always four or five men
•advr me in the work.

Have lour not said that yogi saw the Quern in her room
when you were carrying ■p a chest of drawers? I have said
that I neat once into her room to mend this cheat of drawers.
On that occssion was it that you tow the Priucess in her
bed-room Yes.

Ask him again if he ever said that on that, nr on any
other occasion, he saw the Princess and Bergs/pi together in
her lied•ruoni % Huw many times must I say the same
twine; I have said, and I can swear, that I newer saw Ber-
ga►ui in the bed.r►rom of thr Princrss.

I Wee Dot asked hiss whether he saw, hut whether be ever
said be saw Kermit and the Poi:tress together in tbe Prin.
irtas's room ' I 'weir sold so, 111 $l. 113 Ve 1 Pero it.
Does be kiwi/ the wife of the Baton Berrturs ' I do.
H 45 he ever been bre at the Villa ISerguuri : Yes, she was
there before I set out.

Before Ise eel will for Enlso.l' its.
ll,tl he wee the little Vict..riue there? No, the little Vie-
tonne was out st home, she u 311 at school.

Mere at peboul 11 don't know the place.
Yen hare told us that they were all gentlefolks who vi-
sited the Villa berg:ant; be good enengh to mesition the
mime of auv of the zentleown who usad to go th.fre I
can't till their names.

Can Ise mention any of the ladies? 1 might mention Ma-
rianne Donttrini, 1 might ntentine --. 1) ui, and if
Ihr other people were placed haw.* me, 1 might recollect
their na MCC

Marisaue Dun°iini ; where does she live ? Ai the Bs-
(WM.

What in ? A girl well brought up, •od Ilse flower of
geetlrfulks.

Is sir not the daughter of the man oho keeps one of the
inns at &irons Yrs, she is the dsokhier of Antonio.
The Attorney-Gthersi's civas•txasninatiun hang two eon.
chided—

Earl Grey put the following questions :
Wheilnw any proposition was made to him to Rise eri•
.druceazaiust Alf Queen, slid by whom The wit..., nut
uuder.ittuding (wr mesons...) the epsisiinti, anew. red No.
Did uu persou speak to you on the subject of giving evi.
deuce *gannet (paitirular isiVissis was laid by the lister-
peeler on the wuid MOP* the (luny? Yea; there is Ras-
trill, whom 1 usentioued the oilier (lay.
Did any other person speak to you on the same subject?
Yrs; there was* person ut the name uf Moulton, who while
went tutu his shop to buy snuff; or something of the kind,
loW me—

Thr Attorney•Geni rah inicrposedhere, and prevented the
Interpreter from translating the remainder of the wiener.
A 'hurt pause in the proci.r.hisaa took plan• here, in eun..
sequence of liar Lord Chancellor having Ith the. HUSS., pre.
?hugely. On his Loril.hip's return
Eirl Grey soiled the difficulty a Web had occurred.
The AttorneyGrurrah übsrrsrd, that it wined appear is
pair 98 of the printed evidence, ibat when oar of the: sk-
in ems for the 818 had staled, in smelter to a quern? that
be imagined to and en, Mr. Denman had ohjecied, awl the
Lord thauerhur had el. tided that the run's imaginal sou Was
nut evidence. His °hireling, on the presto* occasion war
similar. He cumendid that any conveiestion between the
witness sail Kumasi Sae not evidence, and he had losterfir-
ird, with the view of preventing that frum appeariag un thin
mitintes, ninth if it ever were inserted deem, Most be after-
ward. struck out.

Nf the desire of 'he Lord Chancellor, the preceding 'Ora-
tion and answiT were read, and the last questior aid part
skewer wrre reed.

The Nubk sod Leaned Lord then expressed a wish that
the question should be argued by Comma u belt sides.
The therisiopOesieral said, mat -big objee'dui recaving
the tosser wbigh the wittiest libd even wd that the Ws-
vorsatior Wieser him and Itigulti *IS rot deidebbe.

• •
The die iteliellerAkeeel sheds*
Ttie Alareent irhl... penallleastei
Qs witness end • strsaproenti net, 11011.14011 OP 0.011 Olen
of evidence by abide die Quarts Weir war swami* be
rrarival tittles MO as reerniving" dm Wastes. it noel/ Ye
&eel th.l itre uses at Rifest' seamed there but osier. eel
slat essasith es alis pram obit 4•ll4seteili le sar
Naas.

—Pre ateenleparegiul issisSed that Me grewirr Ins ma s
rim! *se.

Tier Lord Cloasseeilor called oa her Majesty's Corwaset to
N pport the mrestion isf receiving the evedeme.
Broughton said, be was lest to tryst the voodoo ma
the grimed of the. former evidence os tossehloa Riaanti.—
The effect of what eiidence might be give. lieee4leee"eee.'
tog this sosa might better he diecosord afterwords if .weary;
but what already appeared in rehttion to bins, sad which
would he fowled in page VII of the minuses, was soilicieut
to authorise the rectiviug coaversatious with him as evi-
dence. (Mr. Brougham she. read over She part of the evil
deuce referred to, sad proceeded.] Is Appeared here fist
Itssitelli himself stated that Itiganti eagle to him and told
bias he was to go to the Advocate Vanier/di—duo he went
to Vulassrcali the day after, therrf we be wrist I. Volmareati
in consespooes of Itigasti's cumin to him. What did
Vilniarcati do ? By way of adopting the acts of Rignoti,
be essadosed, though out with all the solersaities,
desired him to go to Milan, and he woolly went there a day
or two after and wes examined. This was sufficient proof
of the agency of tiganti su let in the question which hat
been proposed. But, with great humility, be soliotiited In
their Lordships, that there was an absolute necessity fur
openieg the door Its admit nucleate of this deseriptiou ; for,
suppose he should move that spat after agnit wept to dif-
ferent persons and held language of thus sort, " you will
get so snuck if you swear so and so against the Queen ;'
" yon will get to mach money if you swear that you saw
Bergson putting his hand orp the Queen's petticoat ;" what
if be should prove that other agents promised money to
venues persons for sseariug these false soul scandalous de-
tails which the *itemises soy they beard of but (non
these minders of false lestormay—if be should stew this,
although be should be unable to establish the Ilek
leetweea lhem awl the Prosecutors or the Milan Cum..
mission, he affirmed that their Lordships would be placed
in a most awkward situation if they should resolve to ex.
clunk that evidence—being evidence which would of neces-
sity exercise the greatest intiresice over the mud of ally
man in forming his decinun on the passing or nut pastime
of this Bill—nay, he would assert thet it ought, iu the very
Moment it was beard, determine any men of impartiality to
Vole (against it. It Would be therefore most material evi-
fleece, if it (veld be proved, that a number of prisons were
going about through Italy, offering money fur testimony
ageism her Majesty, even though the link were wantiug
skew the conuestion belly( ea them or his Majesty's Go-
vernment, who, it seemed, were owe to be cumideied the
proweislors. If lie were allowed to establish this of the
Milan Cuinmiseion (they were told that it was now not iii.
title, though Colonel Brown was still tin list scene of ii),
would it ant have the greatest influence over their Lord.
ehips' minds? lie thought that their Lordships Mould nut
•after that long doubt how thiii thing had beets gut tie; tory
• coon perceive by ohom and against *buns the nin-
epin., had hems got up. le short, this roaster was of the
very greatest roommienee. They ebarg.(l • eisuoptrary
against her Majesty the Queen ; and though they should not
be able to Min it home to Lord Liverpool Or Lord Mr.
rowhy, or the other Noble Lords who were now his (teetered
ant:igunisle, yet he was sure thct their Lordships would be
of opinion, that evidence of the description be bad men-
tioned 'west to have a must decided intlutwe on every man
in and out of the Hosier, in forming his judgment whether
this Bill ought or ought not to receive your sanciioor
Dr. Lissitinetins lugged to add a word or two to what had
been said by Isis Learned Friend. He did out teems to say
that Repoli had been moved to have been a general agent
of the Milan Commission ; but he should coutred that It
was apparent he had been employed under that Commieekin
for a particular purpose, viz. the procuring of evidence
against the Queen, and therefore he said that their Lordships
ought to reci ire evidence of all fans of that nether. The
question was, how Ibis Himmel had conducted himself in his
employment ? Now if it should he proved that lie bast made
promises, offered motley, and betel nut inducements of tither
kinds to various permit's to give false evidence against the
Queen, he thought that those w hu had employed hem must be
held respousible for his conduct. It was but justice towards
McQueen that be should be allowed to give in evidence the acts
of Moult, in order that Ise might trace the suborn:nouns of
perjury to the Milan Commissioners themselves, who were
to be considered responsible for by acts' and those of every
usher creature a hom they had engaged to collect persons to
come to England to perjure themselves. Was it not of ins.
',einem* to her Majesty's case if be could chew that al every
place whence • witness had been brought, numbers of agents
bad been for • length of time residitag, tempting perilous lo
come aid velar falsely against her Majesty, makiug presents,
mail pronsisieg (livers individuals that they ,hould make-their
" fortuue," and " a good day's work of it," if they would
come to England as witnesses against the Queen, and per.
jere themselves? The witnesses abroad hail been ecorn,
though under what minim 'sty be (lid nut know. Ile did not
know by what power 1411 oath could hare been administered
by agent' sent out to a ("reign country by this Ailiniuistra-
lion. Would it be theta said that the Governmesit was not
mponsible fur •uy act of this Milan C011111111144/11? It could
out be. Neither agate could it be nisiistainril, that she Ms.
lan Conirniesson was nut answerable for the conduct of nt-
ganti or any other agent. They gave Win their authority,
and adopted his acts, by examining any witness which he
sent. l'ltenfore he hoped that their Lordships would be of
opinion that the question was relevain, mid indeed essential
to the inquiry. He trusted they should be allowed to go
on, and then they should chew that agents almost without
oustilier bad been employed gulag throngls the country, sick-
ing fur every person who might have any kuowledge of them:
transactions, and remits.; recede of indigent persons he fore
the Milne Cumusisuliun to perjure themselves, mud utter wards
support their perjury lore.
The Atturney-General, in reply, confessed himself ROM,
what astuabibed at the beldame of the amenities mode by
his Learned Friends sou lbc opposite side; assertions news-
lived by the evidence, parlietelarly that the Milan Com.
IMAM). bad examined or oath. If thi y looked to Ilse evi-
dence, they would find that leastelli had directly miens he
hatlnottakeu ariy oath before the Commission—

The Hoe. nod Learned Grotkmar, was interrupted by
Dr. Losbington, who referred to the following pusuge in
page 224 of the printed evidence of Rage:smut :—" Were
you swum r-m Yrii, I took an oath."—" %Vete you sworn
on the Gospcii!"-vo. Yes, I took nu oath hi fore the Advo-
rate Vilmarcati, and dies I kissed the emu which I carry
übout me."

The Attorney General immediately obarrved, that labia(
the whole of this evidence together fairly, their lordships
would ace that ltagestioni had out been geseral
laugh followed withal' and without the bar, on which the
Lord Chancellor rema►ked with warmth, that if ao Advocate
were hooked in such a moaner iu stay Court in IYest-
muialer lie would immediately quit it.)
The Attorney-General citations. d Hr insisted the ques-
tion which had been plot to Hagazziansi was," Are you ready
t•, swear to what yuu have said!" to which he replied '• Yes,"
and then took • out. his CTO4O and kissed it. He would
contrite' that tau oath bad been administered by the Combas-
siun to Ilageseiuni. He was merely asked whether he was
ready to swear in a Court ofJostite to what Ise bad Uwe de-
posed to. His assertiou, however, wee Rood fur nothing,
the matter was In be ofttermine.l from the ivideoce ; but be
said, that if the case were eassmired‘suto fairly, it would be
fulaud that this was the fair softener. 11'Isy did he state
Ibis? Henson swiertious were very confidently made, and
a•seitiuus which had no rousse:ion wit► the questiust. The
question was merely Ibis, whether that sort of agency had
nut been fixed or Rigautt, which his Learned Prieto% had
twee obliged to admit was necessary to justify the question
propoited. Even oath respect to Rested'. their Lordships
badmen decided whether be was as 'gest of the Csaimiasiau.
But the question our was, with respect to the agency of
Iltsgauti shw. It was said be had bees employed to collect
readessce; bat where seas the evideeee of this feet The
Hos. and Learned Candlemas this read wee dist part of
lbt ',ideate of Restelt which eroutpripes the alleged
&Obey of Monti, and proved that all which it eats-
maw was, that Itigaati bad desired a potash ta go be.

14, olid.

L.-sw one-, gwEgino

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