The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-23 00:00:00

thin risks excepted, bat in these exceptions in the charter-
party with the French Government were found " the acts
of God" and "the Queen's enemies." (taughter.) The
Emperor's enemies should have been the phrase ; but our
charter-party was considered soperfect by the hon. member
that he could not change a word. The Emperor must
stand the risk of his enemies, but the Queen must be pro-
tected. (Laughter.) And so with another portion of the
charter-party having reference to provisions for the
French officers. The proposal was to provide them
with "breakfast, dinner, supper, and a pint of good port
wine, or other good foreign wine,'" ?much wine notbeing
mentioned, so groat was the desire not to depart from the
words of the English charter-party. (Laughter.) But he
(Sir C. Wood) now came to the case of the vessel which
was desired to call at Newcastle on its way to Portsmouth.
He admitted at once that the vessel was ordered to New-
castle, but that was to be "previously to hergoing to Ports-
mouth." The hon. gentleman stated at Drury-lane Theati e
that it had been ordered that on her way to Portsmouth
the vessel must call at Newcastle; and that remark was
met with those " cheers and laughter" which a packed and
assenting audience are easily moved to. He said :
" The steamer was under orders to go to Portsmouth
to take up troops immediately for the Crimea, but orders
were given by the Admiralty to the owner that in her way
to Portsmouth she must call at Newcastle. (Shouts of
laughter, hear, and cheers.) If this was not so serious a
matter for the country he could laugh himself, but to be or-
dered to go to Newcastle to call for those 12 tons of stores !
(Hear, and cheers.) The owner wrote to the Secretary to the
Admiralty, saying that these 12 tons could bo brought up
from Newcastle for 61., but that it would cost the country
2,0001. for the ship to go round for them. The Admiralty
wrote a very angry letter as if he was presuming to dictate to
them, and ordered the ship to go round. The owner again re-
monstrated, and an order came down in which it was said that
Sir J, Graham insisted that the ship should be made ready
to go to Newcastle to take in 12 tons of combustibles on the
following Monday on her way to Portsmouth.' Still the owner
said he could not put the country to the expense of 2,000/.,
and he would not let the ship go let the consequences be what
they might. (Cheers.) In three days, the Admiralty being
ashamed to write a contradictory order, a letter came from
another department, at Deptford, in which it was said,
' Captain Austin begs to inform Mr. —' (Cries of name.')
He would give the name to any one in confidence, but he
did not think he should be required to state it publicly.
Well, Captain Austin begs to informlMr. that, in con-
sequence of a telegraphic message just received, it is not in-
tended that his ship should go to the Tyue, as the articles at
Newcastle will be sent thence to Woolwich.' "
Now, the ship in question, the Robert Lowe, was a vessel
chartered by the hon. gentleman to the Government before
he was a member of this house; but after that was trans-
ferred to Mr. Gladstone, and with reference to the manage-
ment and payment of which, up to the last few days, the
hon. gentleman Was in communication with the Admiralty.
But why was the Robert Lowe ordered to Newcastle? He
would tell the house. At the time the transaction took
place the Government was very anxious to obtain the means
of forcing the harbour of Sebastopol, and, in consequence,
his right hon. friend the late First Lord of the Admiralty
communicated with Mr. Rendel, an eminent engineer, and
after concert with him and other persons it was arranged
that large explosive cylinders should be constructed for the
purpose of blowing nisi/certain ships sunk at the mouth of
the harbour, and the parties by whom it was recommended
that these cylinders should be constructed were eminent
manufacturers—he supposed ho must thus designate them
—at Newcastle. And here were the reasons, as sated in a
letter from Mr. Armstrongethe owner of the vessel, why
the Robert Lowe was ordered to Newcastle. He said :
" I take the liberty of suggesting that much valuable time
would be saved by shipping them direct from the Tyne.
They cannot, I believe, be sent by continuous railway to any
of the Royal arsenals, and the delay and risk of accident at-
tending the shifting of such heavy things from one railway,
carriage to another, and the cartage of them from stetions,
wouldbe considerable. The powder for charging the maga-
zines might be obtained from Tynemouth fort (where I under-
stand there is a sufficiency) and sent to these works, so that
the apparatus might be delivered here ready for use, without
requiring subsequent disturbance."
(Cheers.) Hero was the reason why the Robert Lowo was
ordered to Newcastle; and Mr. Armstrong, seeing what
took place at the meeting in Drury-lane, forwarded the fol-
lowing statement to the Admiralty :
" I believe it was my own suggestion that the steamer
which was to convey these cylinders to the Crimea should take
them on board at Newcastle,' in order that they might be
charged and finally closed-up before they left the manufac-
tory ; and you will recollect that, in consequence of this
course not having been pursued, the cylinders had ultimately
to be charged and closed up one by one as they were received
on board the Robert Lowe, in the Thames, and that actually
more time was thus consumed than was occupied in the mak-
ing of' the whole apparatus. The weight of the cylinders and
their accompaniments is enormously understated by Mr.
Lindsay. I cannot to-day (being Sunday) get you the parti-
culars, but I believe the weight was nearer 50 tons than 12.
How Mr. Lindsay can make out that it would have cost
2,0001. to send this vessel (of which I understood he was
himself the owner) to Newcastle I cannot conjepture, but I
will venture to say that the demurrage ultimately incurred
in consequence of not sending her there would be at least an
equivalent expense, besides involving a great delay, which
(as was then considered) was of the utmost importance to be
avoided. There was no convenience at Woolwich, such as
we had at Elwick, for charging these heavy cylinders, and
the authorities there were so scrupulous about risk of explo-
sion, that they would not sanction the operation being per-
formed within the arsenal."
And to this statement he (Sir C. Wood) might add that he
believed the real weight of each cylinder was 70 and not
50 tons. Now, he hoped he had satisfied the house that
there were good reasons for ordering the Robert Lowo to
Newcastle —(cheers)—and that the sending her there was
not a mere whim of freak or senseless girder of the Board
of Admiralty. (Renewed cheers.) But the hon. gentleman
went on to say that the owner wrote an angry letter to the
board, stating that he would not expose his vessel to the
risk of sending her to Newcastle, and that subsequently
receiving an order to do so ho ultimately replied that he
would not send his vessel there. Now, here was the
owner's letter
"Might I bo allowed to point out to their lordships the
risk attending a ship of so large a tonnage being sent to the
north of England at this season of the year, and at a period
when such great destruction has been caused by the storms
which are experienced there. Should any accident occur, it
may detain the regiment going in the Robert Lowe for the
sake of 12 tons of combustibles. Every order received byme
shall be strictly attended to."
(Laughter.) Now that was the only letter of remonstrance
received by the Admiralty, and it was not a very angry one
—certainly ho did not think it justified the assertions of the
hon. gentleman. (Cheers.) But was the answer to that letter
a positive order to go at all events toNe wcastle ? The answer
sent was, "that the comptroller-several begged to inform
the owner of the ship that he was not to go to Newcastle."
And why not? Not from any change on the part of the Ad-
miralty as to the desirableness of the original arrangement,
but because the ship was not ready when- the service re-
quired of her was to be performed. (Cheers.) The conse-
quence was the cylinders were sent by railroad at a consi-
derable expense, and wore charged at Woolwich instead of
at Newcastle, and all because the hon. gentleman's house
were not ready to fulfil their contract. (Renewed cheers.)
And now that he had nude mention of the Robert Lowe,
he might be allowed to allude to another fact, which would
not a little surprise the house. A great deal had been said
about the stowage of the Robert Lowe, but all the hon.
gentleman's statements upon that point proved utterly in-
correct upon inquiry. The only ground stated by the hon.
gentleman why the Robert Lowe had not been properly
packed, and had not delivered its charge as ordered, was
in consequence of the captain and chief mate having been
removed. Now the house would bo a little surprised to find
that the person who changed the master and mate of the
Robert Lowe was no less than the hon. member for Tyne-
mouth (Mr. Lindsay) himself, who did it with the know-
ledge of the Admiralty, and they were sent away because
they were not acquainted with the stowage of the vessel.
(Cheers.) Well, the third assertion of the hon. gentleman
was, that a vessel was ordered from Deptford to Wool-
wich for survey, at a very considerable expense. Here
was his statement :

" A steam-ship was lying at Deptford, and the Government
engineer who was to go in her lived at Woolwich. It was
necessary that before the ship was engaged the engineer
should inspect her engines. Orders came from the Admi-
ralty to the owner to tales her round to Woolwich in order

that the engineer might walkon board. (Hear, anti laughter.)
The owner answered, that it would be better for the engineer
to come to the ship than for the ship to go to the engineer,
and that it would cost the country less; as the engineer could
come over to Deptford for 4d., and the ship would cost 1001.
in going to Woolwich."

With regard to the assertion thus alluded to, his (Sir C.
Wood's) conviction was, that in that, as in other cases, the
hon. gentleman had overrun his memory. (Hear' hear.)
However, that being so, he applied immediately to Capt.
Austin, an officer of very high character, who had charge
of the whole transport service, and required of him to re-
port whit actually took place. Well, he would read an
extract from Captain Austin's reply ;-
" I can with certainty declare no such thing as a transport
proceeding from this to Woolwich ha 4 ever been ordered by
the Admiralty, or contemplated by me ; the system is for the
surveying officers to search out and visit the vessels at their
stations in the docks or river; this established custom is of
daily occurrence."
But in order to make matters more sure he had also
ordered a report from Lieutenant Wentworth, the agent
of transport vessels, and that report said :
"I know nothing of the steamer worth 50,0001. being
ordered from Deptford to Woolwich to have her engines in-
spected. All ships hare been surveyed by me, and had such
an order been given I should have known it. In all cases
where ships have been ordered for survey in any part of the
river I have considered it my duty to proceed to them, and
not require them to come to Deptford. . . . The state-
ment that ordering a steamer from Deptford to Woolwich
for inspection would incur an expense of 1001. is absurd ;
supposing she could not use her own steam, she could be
towed there for 101."

Now as he could not say for certain the name of the vessel
to which the hon, gentleman referred, he (Sir C. Wood)
had only to rest upon the authority of those gentlemen
that no such occurrence ever took place. But not content
with ascertaining that fact, he inquired what could have
possibly given rise to such a statement ; and from those
inquiries he strongly suspected that the occurrence alluded
to took place in reference to a vessel called the Tyno-
mouth, of which mention had been already made. And
it was certainly true in the case of that vessel that an
order was given with respect to it, with which the hon.
gentleman did not choose to comply.. The Tynemeuth
was under repairs, but she was reported by Mr. Glad-
stone ready to go to sea next day. Well, the control-
ling officers considering there was reason to doubt that
assertion, and inasmuch as the vessel was to go down the
river to have her compasses swung at Greenhithe, direc-
tions were given that she should go down with her own
engines, in order to test the truth of the assertion that
she was ready to go to sea that day. That order was not
complied with : and why? Because the engines were
not in a fit state to take the vessel down ; that when the
vessel was 'surveyed at Greenhithe the gentlemen then
found she was not fit to go to sea, and that her engines
were quite unfit for their purpose. (Cheers.) nd here
again the hon. gentleman interfered personally, and tried
to induce the Admiralty, through his (Sir C. Wood's) hon.
friend the secretary to the board, to order the vessel to
proceed (so we understood the right hon. gentleman, who
throughout spoke so indistinctly that it was very difficult to
catch his meaning). And ho might be allowed to state that
he believed it was upon the 4th or. sth ofJune Mr. Gladstone
informed the board that the vessel was ready to go to sea ;
whileit Was upon the Bth or Oth of Juno that thu surveyor
Of the !bard of' Trade made his report and said :--
" The surveyors went yesterday to survey tine hull arid
machinery of the Tynemouth steamer, but could not
deliver declarations, because the ships boats were not on
board, and were not expected until the next tide ; the
register was not in board : the screws for the side lights
required rifting the safety-valves were nut in aoeurrdanee
with the set, arid could. not be ecnnioined, there being a tire io
une the furinie,;s; a, orank,pin requio:',l 1401.14.; Vv., onNi-

liary engine required fitting; the fire hose could not bo
found," &e.

So that four days after the vessel had been reported ready
to co to. sea she was not even in a state fit to be surveyed,
and she ultimately left Greenbithe without receiving a cer-
tificate from the Board of Trade. Now, if that was the
case to which the hon. gentleman alluded, he did not think
it exhibited such very gross mismanagement or careless-
ness on the part of the Board of Admiralty, in ordering
the vessel to proceed down the river—not for their own
pre-poses, but for those of the owner of the vessel. (Hear.)
Well,-the hon. gentleman then went on to make certain
statements in reference to some returns as to commissariat
stores, and which were not included in those moved for
by the hon. gefitleman. He (Sir C. Wood) was ready to
acknowledge he did not know why thee() returns had not
been laid on the table. Those actually before them
were simply returns of ordnance stores. If, however, any
hon. gentleman wished to find the quantity of provisions
sent out, he would find it in the 13th appendix to the
fourth report of the Sebastopol committee. The hon. gen-
tleman, however, stated that there were grievous and gross
inaccuracies in the transport returns leis' upon the table ;
and he referred to transport 102, which was this very
Tynemouth. Now all that the Government could under-
take to supply was the number of officers, private:3, and
horses placed on board each vessel as it left England ; but
they knew nothing of-the number embarked in the Black
Sea, at Varna, or Eupatoria, or at Constantinople. All
those were details of which they were ignorant, and there-
fore he would not dispute the statement of the hon.
gentleman that the Tynemouth did actually convey a
much greater number of officers and men than she dm-
barked at Plymouth.. Such were the assertions upon which
the hon. gentleman had founded his charge of mal-admi-
nistration against the Board of Admiralty. With regard
to these assertions, as he had already said, he would not
use any harsh term. For every statement which he had
made he had given chapter and verse, and he would leave
it to the house to judge how far the assertions made in
Drury-lane, and repeated, though in a modified manner,
there, in the presence of hon. members themselves, wore
borne out by the facts. (Cheers.) Now, he was unwilling to
trouble the house with anything further, but he must be
permitted to observe that when the administrative reform-
ers charged the Government with mal-administration in
such strong terms, and chose the transport service as the
particular branch of the public departments in which it
had occurred, they must remember that it was precisely
in the transport service that the Government depended
less upon itself and more upon private establishments
than in any other public department. With regard to
the Queen's ships the Admiralty could do whatever it
thought fit; while in reference to the transport service,
the stowing of the vessels, for instance, depended upon the
, masters and owners—the sailing of them upon the mas-
ters and transport officers ; so that the Admiralty had
very little control over them. But he must confess, when
he looked into the management of the transports by other
parties, he was unable to recognise any such great distinc-
tion in favour of the management of private parties over
that of the government. For instance, there were three
classes of emigrant ships, viz., those taken up by the Go-
vernment, those proceeding from a port where a Govern-
ment agent checked everything that went on, and those pro-
ceeding from a port where there was no Government agent,
and where everything was done on the responsibility of the
owners. Well, ha found the greatest possible difference be-
tween the por-centage of loss of life in vessels controlled by.
Government and those over which the Government exer-
cised no control. (Cheers.) And that whereas in the for-
mer the loss was very small, it was considerably greater in
those with only a partial superintendence on the part of
Government, but it was greater still where there was no
control at all. (Hear.) Now, it would be remembered
that some time ago the instance of "the Seringapatam "
was mentioned as a great case against the Government,
and the public were led to suppose by the lion. gentleman
that that vessel was entirely taken up by the government.
Well, the contrary was the fact—it was no such thing—it
was a ship freighted by Mr. Green, a member of one of the
first firms in the country, on board of which passage was
taken for a considerable body of troops. Now he believed
the ship was originally seaworthy, and that the occurrence
which took place arose entirely from bad stowage. There-
fore, what was wrong in that case did not arise out of the
mismanagement of the Government. Again they were told
the other day of the wonderiul performances Of Sir S.Poto,
of whose efforts in the Crimea it was impossible to speak,
too highly. But they had had reports from the captains in
charge at Gibraltar, that the transports employed by Sir
S. Pete would boar no comparison with tho vessels sent out
by the Government. Now the bon. member made charges
so mercilessly against the Admiralty, and contrasted their
management so strongly with the administration of pri-
vate parties, that he could not avoid recalling attention to
the case of the emigrant ship William Lindsay, in order
to show him much better the hon. gentleman could manage
matters. (Hear, and a laugh.) This William Lindsay was
the first of a series of vessels sent to sea with the most ex-
cellent intention of facilitating emigration to Australia.
Now he would read to the house what the hon. gentleman
proposed to do, itad then he would tell them what he actu-
ally did. (Laughter.) In 1852 the hon. gentleman ad-
dressed a circular to every clergyman in Great Britain for
the guidance of their parishioners in the matter of emigra-
tion, and here was the circular?—
"Rev. Sir,—Considering the immense number ,of persons
of all ranks who are now leaving this country for the Aus-
tralian colonies, and the wide field of employment offered
to them there as Compared with their native land, it is a
matter of regret that comparatively few have the means of
judging as to the efficiency of the vessels advertised, or the
responsibility of the owners and charterers, and too often
rush thoughtlessly, in the absence of proper information, to
secure passages in vessels of which they know little more
than the name. As from your position you may have many
inquiries on this subject wo are induce I respectfully to draw
your attention to the arragements we have made for carry-
ing out the necessary emigration on a scale and in a manner
suited to the requirements of the times ; and to beg your
valuable aid in making the same known throughout your
parish for the benefit of those who may have any desire to
make their future home in the distant colony of Australia.
We may suggest that the chief points on which intending
emigrants should inform themselves arc, the class and size
of the ship by which they purpose sailingher height be-
tween decks—whether she is coppered and copper fastened
—whether well ventilated, and who is the owner or charterer.
In a word, they should ask themselves the 'question—ls the
'person who undertakes to send them on a voyage of 10,000
miles one of established reputation or a mere adventurer ?
Finding that emigration to so distant a colony has not been
generally. conducted in the manner in which it ought or
might have been, we have arranged to dispatch monthly,, or
twice every month, aecording to the demand, vessels owned
by ourselves, or entirely under our management, and fitted
with every improvement that science can suggest, so as to.
insure to those who may proceed to that colony as large a
measure of comfort and safety as it is possible to obtain on
a voyage so lengthened. . . The three following shipS have
been fixed to sail on the lst December, January, and February
respectively:- W. S. Lindsay, James L. Bogert, and Swarth-
more. These are all very superior, now, first-class vessels,
built expressely for carrying passengers. . . On the Ist of
August we will dispatch two magnificent ships, which aro
building, fitted with steam auxiliary screws. [The hon. gen-
tleman a arms with his subject.] One of these vessels will he
named the Caroline Chisholm, in which Mrs. Chisholm, with
her family, will return to Australia, accompanied by 500 single
females, to every 50 of whom a matron will be appointed, whose
duty it will be to instruct those Under her charge during the
voyage, for which purpose a portion of the lower deck will
be set apart for a school-room. (Hear.) This will be a most
desirable opportunity for respectable females who have re-
solved to emigrate, as the advantages to be derived from
Mrs. Chisholm's maternal attention and* patronage in the
colony must be of lasting and substantial service toAhose who
proceed under her guardianship. (Hear, hear.) The second
ship, which will be exactly similar in every respect to the
Caroline Chisholm, be called the ,Robert Lowe, after our
respected friend the present member for Kidderminster—
(laughter)—who resided for several years in Australia, and
was there an active member of the Legislative Council.
(Hear, hear.) . • . • "
Well, no doidet, the having Mrs. Chisholm on board as a
passenger was a very great inducement to emigrants. But
how did the hon. gentleman carry out his professions ?
Why, the first of these vessels was the Williaul Lindsay,
but it was obliged to put back for some reason or othor,and
the emigrants had to ho landed. The second vessel, how-
ever, with which the hon. gentleman had had nothing what-
ever to do, did perform the voyage, and arrived at her desti-
nation in perfect safety; but with regard to the third which
was built under the orders of the hon. gentleman himself,
the surveyor reported her so unsteady that he would not
allow her to go to sea. Well, those were the two magnifi-
cent vessels which were to carry emigrants' o Australia
under the care of Mrs. Chisholm. It 'did so happen that
the Caroline Chisholm never went out to Australia at all,
and it turned out that she was now called the Tynemouth.
(Groat laughter.) So that the vessel that was to have con-
veyed these happy female emigrants, was employed instead
in carrying the munitions of war ilbr Government. As for
the Robert Lowe, the house had seen what hail become of
that vessel. And such was the manner in which the bon.
gentleman had performed his promises, put forward with
no slight ostentation. Well, but in addition to that, he
had to notice to the house some contracts with the Govern-
ment for the supply of coal, undertaken in the name of
Mr. Gladstone. These contracts were to deliver the coals
within a certain time, and lie believed it was beyond
all doubt that the coals were not delivered within the
time. It so happened, also, when he himself was at the
India Board, he 'had an opportunity of seeing how the
firm to which the honourable gentleman belonged ful-
filled such contracts with the Indian Government. In May,
1852, they contracted to ship a certain quantity of coals in
August of that year, which were not, however, shipped
until June 1853, and the whole of that time there were
letters passing between the hon. gentleman and the Ad-
miralty on the subject. Again, 4,500 tons were to be
shipped for Bombay in August, 1852, and these were not
shipped until August 1853. Now he would not say that
there might not have been very good reasons why these
contracts had not been fulfilled ; still he must remind the
hon. gentleman that those who lived in glass-honses ought
not to throw stones, and that allowance ought to be made
for difficulties in carrying out a great measure. (Hear.)
But, above all, when he made statements impugning the
characters of deserVing men, he ought to take uncommonly
good care that they were within the fact, and well borne
out by the truth. (Hear, hear.) And ho ought not to
allow himself, even if his statements were not directly
or altogether false, so to embroider them as to disguise
the truth, and thus, for reasons best known to himself,
raise up a superstructure not based upon actual circum
stances. (Cheers.)

Sir DE LACY EVANS said, after the speech of the hon.
member for Tynemouth had appeared in the newspapers,
he received a note from the Minister of War, requesting
to know from him how far the statement of the hon. mom-

ber was accurate so far as he (Sir De Lacy Evans) was con-
cerned. His answer to the noble lord was, that he had
seen the statement referred to in a day or two after it was
made, and he had mentioned to the hon. member in that
Immo that there were some inaccuracies in it. The hon.
member replied by saying there might have been some
verbal inaccuracies in it, but he did not think that sub-
stantially, it was incorrect. He (Sir De Lacy Evans) now
wished to state what really did occur in the brief conversa-
tion which he had had with the hon. gentleman ; and as
that conversation took place in that house while a debate
was going on, it was not unlikely but that some mistake
might have been made as to what he said. What the hon.
member had previously said was this—that he had heard
from what he considered to be good authority that the
Government had purchased some time before some 2,000 or
3,000 horses, for the purpose of remounting the cavalry
and artillery in tho Crimea. As to the remark of his (Sir
Do Lacy Evans) having purchased these horses, that, of
course, was a mistake, for it would be absurd to suppose
such a thing. It was not, however, absurd for him to feel
much anxiety and intorert upon this subject, and to endea-
vour to exert himself in forwarding this object. The hon.
member said that he (Sir Da Lacy Evans) was naturally
most anxious that the transport oT those horses should not
be delayed,- because he knew that the army in the Crimea
was greatly in want of them ; but that he heard that the
SielaY had Arisen I)Coanse the government ,could not pro.