The Sun.
London, England, 1855-02-20 00:00:00

..._ _.
Minor, where it would be easy to raise mils body amongst
the tribes of Anatolia.
Mr. JOHN A.I'GREGGOR (who rose amid some confu-
sion) said, that if the home would not give him a hearing,
ho should move that the Chairman report progress. (Oh !)
In spite of the sneers which met him from hon. gentlemen
opposite (on th 3 Ministerial benches), he wished to express
his opinions upon the question which had caused so much
excitement throughout the country. He wished to saythat
he had great confidence in the noble lord at the head of the
Government, but that he had no confidence in the Cabinet
which the noble lord had formed, for it was a Cabinet
condemned alike by the country, by this house, and, with
one exception by every public paper in the kingdom.
(" Oh, oh !" and laughter.) With regard to what
had been said of our officers, he would state his belief that
there was no officer more deserving of our admiration than
was Sir Colin Campbell for his conduct in the field ; and
of the Duke of Cambridge ke would also observe that there
was not in the whole course of history a record of more
heroic conduct than that exhibited by hie Royal Highness.
He could not allow that, as to these two officers at least,
there was any want of bravery or of military skill. (neer,
hear.) But then he came to the supplies sent out to our
army, and on this subject he would express his belief that
there was not a single house of respectability iu London,
in Liverpool, or Glasgow that would not be ashamed of the
manner in which these supplies had been sent out. Every
merchant sent out supplies in a satisfactory manner. Take,
for example, the house of Green and Co. (Laughter.) Yes.
but not "green" in their experience and mode of conduct-
ine business. The Admiralty were " green"—(lanitei2i7-d.
and the Commissariat were " green." (Hear, hear,
laughter.). But he was referring to Messrs. Green and Co.,
the' groat shipowners, and if they examined into the sub-
ject they would find that all their cargoes were delivered iu
own ships, nobody seemed to know w
proper order and according to, schedhueler,e itvohitilne,datshteoaorttir.
wc cargoes. gi
ioeews .
in
elnIT
teohcaadr
ray newot Go-
vernment. hoe-
vvceilerewsnmswaehnuidtc.hthYceoehmsopul oessßetdudtetshhiegaidnrs (as he believed them to be) of
that Government? Nothing of the kind. They hid found
it a matter of ease and comfort to take the actual staff of
blundering subordinates already in existence. Then they
were threatened with a dissolution of Parliament. For his
own part, ho never could go to his constituents so comfort.
ably as he could now. But he believed that those members
who had voted, or who should vote, in opposition to in-
quiry would, on going to their constituents, find themselves
in a miserable position. (Cheers and laughter.) Spearing
in the full spirit of an independent member, he deplored
the position of the noble lord, and deplored his choice of a
Cabinet which, he repeated, did not possess the confidence
of the country.
Mr. RICH observed that the increase in the number of
troops during the present year was 35,000, besides an ter-
rear of 5,000 voted last year, but who could not be raised
'on account of recruits not coming forward. He thought
the allowance of 20,000 for casualties extremely low, as
unhappily there had not been fewer than 30,003 during the
past year in the Crimea. He thought it was a most. seri-
ous subject, and requested to know the total number of
the army. According to the -vote, 40,000 men were to be
raised. The casualties were put at 20,000, but he was sure
40,000 would be nearer the mark. Before the house
came to a vote, it ought to be informed how the force was
to be kept up.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said there would be no objection
on the part of the house to vote certain sums which had
been asked for. They had voted nearly the same sums last
year—for instance, for the clothing, but the clothing never
got there—(laughter)—and he ba heard no statement to
explain how the clothes which they were going to pay for
would also arrive at their destination. The house was
going to vote a certain number of horses; they had horses
last year, but they had been starved to death. (Hear.)
; They were going to send out horses to the Crimea, but it
had not been stated, either that night or at any other time
whether any alteration had been made since that time
twelve months which might show thehouse that they were
not going to starve the horses again. He was of opinion
that the house ought not to vote 9,000 horses to be starved
to death—(hear)—and he asked what machinery had they
now—what man had they who would say, " These things
shall not be ; do your duty, or I will turn you out, every
one of you ?" A man of strong mind and will was wanted,
and not a twaddling red-tapist who would starve the
troops. (Hear, and laughter.)
Mr. NE\VDEGATE hoped the committee would consi-
der that this was already the 19th of February, and would
insist upon knowing whether means were being taken to
provide the troops in the Crimea with clothing for sum-
mer. He should repeat his question that day week, and he
hoped the Under-Secretary for the War Department would
get up and say that this clothing was in progress; for it
was surely time that it was being prepared. With respect
to the cavalry, he had heard that they had no horses. If
they wanted horses fit for immediate service, he hoped that
they would not rely upon such horses as they could pur-
chase for 401., unless some limit was assigned to prepare
them for the exposure they would have to undergo. If
they were at once taken from the warm stables of England
to the pickets in the Crimea, they would die like rotten
_ sheep. He trusted that Government would take care that
these horses should be immediately put through some
course to prepare them for the service they would have to
meet. He had been informed that some of the irregular
cavalry is India had volunteered for service in Turkey.
Why had these men not been made use of? He trusted
that Government would not reject this proposal, which
would give them seasoned troops and seasoned hones for
the ensuing campaign. Ho eulogised the conduct of the
regimental officers which had been as far before those of
other nations as their men had been before the men of
other nations. They had always won the victory, and they
had only asked for one condition, namely, that they should
be brought face to face with the enemy. Where, then,
was the failure I Were the duties of the transport service
or of the commissariat performed by members of the aris-
tocracy ? Was the medicaldepartment in the hands of the
aristocracy? The failure in the Crimea was due to the
commissariat, to the miserable substitute for the transport
service, and to the inefficient staff of medical officers.
Now he (Mr. Newdegete) maintained that the gentlemen
and noblemen of England engaged in the service of the
country in regimental or in high commands had done their
duty. (Hear, hear.) But those which were called the
civil departments had lapsed into a miserable state of con-
fusion. There appeared to be amongst them no mind of
sufficient calibre to rectify the evils engendered by a long
period of peace. It was, in his opinion, those civil de-
partments, and not the aristocratic branches of the army,
iu which the failures had occur red or to wnich the cala-
mities in the Crimea wero to be attributed. (Hear.)
Mr. OT tTAY said it was to the inaptitude of the gentle-
men who composed the important branches of the service
that the failures were owing. He meant the staff of the
army. (Hear.) There was in this conntry an establish-
ment ably conducted by professors of eminence, to_ which
every officer in the army could have access by applying for
it. They might there learn everything necessary to fit them
for staff duties ; and he believed this eet iblisliment sent out
annually 30 officers fitly qualified for every department of
the army. Unfortunately, however, those officers were
hardly ever appointed to staff situations—(hear)—and the
consequence was, that the staff of the English army was so
inefficient that it brought upon it the derision of every
foreign officer who might come into contact with it. (Hear.)
He had no objection to the vote, and he was surprised that
the number of troops asked for was so small, if the Govern-
ment thought there was a chance of procuring more. He
could not, however, help expressing his regret that, consi-
dering the deficiencies of the military system, the hon. gen-
tleman the Under Secretary of the War Department (Mr.
F. Peel) should not have inaugurated his advent to the office
by expressiug his intention of introducing modifications
into some parts of that system. For instance, the manner
in which commissions were purchased in the service was a
most ridiculous arrangement. Some steps had been taken
in the right direction ' • but the system of the French army
ought to be carried out, by which a certain number of va-
cancies amongst the officers were filled up from the ranks.
The result was, that every man who joined the ranks of the
French army could rely upon it, that if he distinguished
himself in battle, or in any other way, he was certain of
being promoted to the rank of officer, which was his right.
Ho had suggested before that the cavalry from India should
be employed in Turkey, but the proposition had been
coldly received. Why did they not send for some regiments
from India? There were the Sikh, Scinde, and Goorkab
regiments, who were excellent soldiers and well-mounted,
as every one who had seen the Arab horses upon which
the cavalry in India were mounted would admit. He knew
that in the campaign in Cabul and Affghanistan there were
less casualties amongst these horses, which were never
in stables but always picketed, than there were upon or
service in England. There was another point in the
purchase system which deserved serious attention—viz.,
with reference to the pensions of widows of officers who
full not in active service, but who died in the service of
their country from other causes. They had had to deplore
the loss of several members of the house, some of whom
had fallen in battle, some from sickness. 'What was the
/ case with regard to one member of the house—an officer in
the Guards. He must have paid some 8,000/. or. 9,000/.
for his commission. He did not mean to presume to enter
into any family affairs, but he had a right to presume that
that man was like tho generality of officers, not a man of
large fortune. Supposing he was a married man, and left
children uaprovided for, it was unjust that, this officer
having died from sickness under such circumstances, hie
wife and family should have no provision from the State.
The next thing he heard was that the eldest son of a peer,
one of the richest men in England, was appointed to the
vacant commission without purchase. It was a monstrous '
injustice that a commission in the Guards, which ought to
be the reward of distinguished merit, should, under these
circumstances, have been obtained without any purchase-
money being paid by that officer, or at least some money
being paid into the fund out of which the pensions were
provided.
Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, the hon. and gallant officer
who began this discussion entered into an argument upon
the general arrangements which her Majesty's Government
have made with regard to the war. He stated his opinion
that this country, not being, as he conceives, a military
nation, ought not, when it embarked—or was compelled to
engage—in war with Russia, to have attempted any opera-
tions with a military force, but ought to have confined it-
self entirely. to naval operations by the fleet ; and he seemed
to think that it would have been sufficient to send a fleet
to blockade the Russian ports in the Baltic, and another
fleet to blockade the Russian ports in the Black Sea, and
that by these means we should have been able to coerce
the Russian Government as to compel them to accede to
the terms we might have thought fit to require. Now, I
most entirely differ from the hon. and gallant member
upon that point. It is manifest, I 'think, to everybody
that the mere action of a naval force never could have
I exercised ruch a coercion upon the Government of Russia
as to accomplish any decisive or useful results. I deny ,
entirelyraa the assertion the lion. and gallant member has
r . s
thede, thatn et
said
d t operationshat u,
we
heafdthe
sentna voyu were
a maatatne
magnificent
tby
fleetno
to Bga.ltici, and that it came back without having done
igtredaetsetrr/o
lee
anythin
tll izatenrcliyird,oiny that. (Hoar.) In the first place,
adt--and was
thatpwo.cs,i,tlineinaiakthetede?trai7:lenhgttwas the beginning of a great naval
, intended to have been even on a
pmi.e., lien, and gallant member forget
uonf atehnics
that in the Reisaian
e eavalihis nothing to have
fit)mla2tihte Baltic there were from 27
vessels in
071)30 frigates, together with
to 30 sail-of the-line,
1? )wer in the Baltic,
steamers and smaller v
eiltetAsic"ol uifrinvge lead
not lied a large and formi.tahl
you would have bad the whole
seas--(hear)—ravaging your commerce,
shores, and inflicting injury and disgrace orneatte7ing your
(Hear.) I say, therefore, that it is unfair, unjusst,
country,
true to assert that the fleet accomplished nothing", wataun-
cooped up this formidable power during the wale
~,
theit
when it might have visited this country, whielLi
was
season
thus kept free from that detriment it might otherwise have
3portion of the R •
suffered from the escape even of . . unman
to the military operfleet. (Hear, hear.) With regard! .
intended a.
that if you
tions which we undertook, it is plain
strike a blow
tcs bring Russia to terms you must
some-
where. Would the hon. and gallant member have had us
mightWe have gained
send an army into Central Russia . 9
nearer a decisive
a victory there, and not have been a step

result, Wo adopted a different coursa, . and endeavoured
to strike a blow where it would be the most sensibly felt,

and where it would he the greater if we succeeded. We
undertook the war to defend Turkey against the aggres-
sion of Russia. We did not undertake it, as some have

while probably the cavalry would not be found so well
adapted to the nature of the country and that service in
which it would be engaged as cavalry belonging almost to
the country in which the operations were to bo performed.
As to transferring from India such officers as Major
Outram and Major Edwardes, my liglat hon. friend the
President of the Board of Control would probably have a
word or two to say upon that point, because. India is
worth protecting as well as Sebastopol is worth attacking
—(hear, hear)—and those officers are occupying points of
great importance in India ; and I apprehend that the
1 Governor-General of Indig would not at all thank the

represented, because we preferred a Mahomedan to a
Chrristian. We made war because it was to the interests
of the world that the vast region under the sway of Tur-
key should not fall under the dominion of Russia. (Hear.)
Ve
tliehneilfee s td did that
thatt hat
Austriadan ger hadlie ? such In
thean interest Black
Sea.
thatl t w
w aes
might Turkey
leave
em t
been
protection
formidableotecuen o of the
invasion
frontier by lianu dof Turkey
protecting
to the arms of Turkey (which did, in fact, for 12 months
ife therTtuork ey iannrcoi aAd su
sotfr Ri a
,u ssi
shoulda), a n
itd tboe
ctohren
ec oaibn -.
10trill 1.11)
ePuenott,iseelftyoharancbteeacstrehlo.ses necessarye a fto
pr thato w e r powerßussia t o i n tae
sr f eargea. i n Itst isT Ici
rl ekaery,
lay in Sebastopol ; it was its great fleet that had the do-
minion of the Black Sea ; it was in that arsenal that its
great fleet rested iu security, and from which it could
issue, as it were, with the promptitude of lightening, and
.weep down upon Coustantinople. At Sebastopol there
-was centered the great power of Russia; and, if we de-
sired to strike an effectual blow at it, it was there that
we must do it. (Hear, hear.) The difficulties attendant
upon this expedition were greater than were anticipated
when wo undertook it. I will not now enter into a dis-
cussion as to whether those difficulties were increased
by want of arrangement or bad management on the
spot, and the House ought to look with come indul-
gence ou the errors of men who have not had the expe-
rience in the duties they were called upon suddenly to per-
form which might have enabled them to have discharged
those duties with greater efficiency and success. The hon.
and gallant member said that we have an academy here in
which staff officers may learn their duties; but it is well
known that learning duties in an academy, and the actual
performance of them, are as different as any two things
can well be. (Hear.) The armies on the Continent have
a great advantage in this respect over the army of Eng-
land. On the Continent the great bulk of the armies are
within the Government territory—they assemble in large
bodies and are called together for great operations in the
sunnuer, and a mimic war teaches them the duties of a
real campaign. Our army has not had that advantage, and
the first instance in which anything of the kind took place
was when, in small numbers, the troops assembled ;at
Chobham ; therefore we ought not to condemn too hastily
men who have not had the opportunity of practising duties
they were called upon to perform under circumstances of
unparalleled difficulty. So mush for the policy of her M-
ajesty's Government in the conduct of the war, and, had we
confined it to naval operations, it would have been perfect
imbecility on our part to have done so ; and I contend
that, having entered on military operations, that the point
to which these operations have been directed was the point,
and the only point, where au effectual blow could be struck
at the adversary with whom we are engaged. (Cheers.)
An hon. member has made a suggestion worthy of conside-
ration. Ho stated the hardships that fell on officers re-
turning to this country, suffering from wounds received in
the service, being unable to receive that assistance from
the hospitals which naval officers do. I am unable to say
whether the military arrangements will, at present, permit
of any such arrangement ; but the suggestion is oneworthy
of the consideration of the Government. (Hear, hear.) My
hon. friend says that, when an officer has received a severe
wound, the regulations of the service give him a gratuity
of a year's pay, which is to enable him to receive such
medical assistance as the condition of his wounds may re-
quire. My hon. friend the member for Lambeth, as usual,
condemned the household troops; be thought there was
no use in having a body of men like these, created with
higher pay and privileges than the rest of the army. We
are often told that we ought to imitate the military orga-
nisation of foreign countries, and that the reason that our
operations aro not so successful is because we do not follow
their example. Now, if there is one arrangement that
prevails more than any other in foreign armies it is that
of having some one corps entitled to greater privileges and
distinction than the rest of the army. To such an extent
is this carried in the French service, that. the Imperial
Guard has been re-organised, it having of late years been
abolished, and I lately had the pleasure of seeing 13,000 of
these fine troops reviewed in the gardens of the Tuileries.
Whether we take the Russian, the Austrian, Prussian, or
French armies—in all these services there will be found a
body of troops corresponding with the brigade of Guards
—and as to the manner in which these troops perform
their duty—(cheers)--I can only say that if there is on
any occasion a desperate resistance to be made, or a dis-
tinguished service to be performed, there is always a regi-
ment of the Guards to do it. (Cheers.) It has been ob-
jected by a noble lord (Seymour) that the Household Bri-
gade was only for show—that it could never be employed
—that both men and horses were too heavy—does my
noble friend forget the battle of Waterloo ? (Rear, hear.)
Does he forget that it was the weight of the men and the
weight of the horses that.this beautiful force overpowerd
erouthing that was opposed to them on the field of Wa-
terloo ? Does he forget that in the Peninsula the House-
hold Brigade was employed with great utility and success?
They have not been sent to the Crimea because it is too
distant, and the nature of the ground does not require
troops of this particular description. The hon. member
for Lambeth was sorry at not seeing in the estimates
that consolidation of the departments which has been
announced as desirable. The fact is, there is no con-
solidation of the departments which can supersede the
necessity of having a great number of clerks for the
examination and settlement of the accounts for the army
and the militia, and others sent into the War-office; there-
fore, any hon. members who wished that, by placing all
the civil departments under the Secretary of State for War
(that they might avoid having establishments for the differ-
ent services, which, with their several branches, were to
be placed under the control of the Secretary for War),
must not expect that when the arrangements are completed,
that they will do away with the necessity of providing
establishments for the discharge of the duties of the civil
service. The hon. member for Inverness said that we be-
gan the war without any land transport service—he is mis-
taken in this—we began without any separate corpe, we
now propose to have one specially devoted to the land
transport. It was under the commissariat, and great in-
convenience was found to arise from the combination of
two services totally distinct—viz., that of procuring sup-
plies, and that of transporting to the place required ; but
we had a large number of horses and mules at Varna spe-
cially provided for the land transport. It was not possible
to carry them over to the Crimea when the troops went,
and circumstances arose that would not admit of their be-
ing sent afterwards. But the arrangement we are propos
ing is not the creation for the first time of means of land
transport, threw menus having already existed iu the com-
missariat department ; it is the transferring thorn to 1,
separate establishment, whose single duty it will be to look
atter that service and perform it correctly, and we think
that great advantage will arise from such a concentration
of the transport service in one particular department. An
hon. gentleman also observed upon the calamity which be-
fell a great number of the horses, who died for want of
forage, and he ascribed it to great neglect on the part of
those whose duty it was to provide for them ; but the
honourable gentleman, perhaps, is not aware that in the
unfortunate hurricane in which the Prince was lost there
was lost twenty days' forage for the animals belonging to
the camp. In the transports wrecked in that storm was
lost forage that would have supplied the animals in the
camp for 20 days—(hear, hear)—and, of course, it was very
difficult for a long time to replace it. Then came the bad-
ness and impracticability of the road, and there was great
difficulty in bringing anything from the harbour up to the
camp, which led to the consequence that, while their were
abundant supplies of various kinds at that port, those in
the camp for whom they were intended were left in a state
of great suffering for.the want of them. The hon. mem-
ber for Inverness asked a question as to what progress we
had made in raising a foreign corps. He stated with great
force that we urged in the early. part of the session the
great necessity of passing a bill to enable us to raise
foreign troops, and that I especially entreated the house to
consent to that bill in order that we might without loss of
time enlist foreign troops to go to the assistance of our own
troops in the Crimea. It is perfectly true that hitherto we
have not succeeded in acting upon that bill, and why?
(Hear.) I must tell the house the truth, however unplea-
sant it may to some to hear it; but the reason why we
have not succeeded has been the language—(cheers)—l am
forced to say it—has been the language which was used in
debates in this and the ether House of Parliament, and
which created such a feeling of resentment and indigna-
tion throughout the continent of Europe that those per-
sons who had before been prepared to take letters of ser-
vice to raise troops in Germany threw them up, and said
that under the circumstances they were unable to raise a
man. (Cheers.) The condition, also, which was imposed
on the Government of not giving half-pay to the officers
likewise tended to impede the execution of the plan. I
undertake to say that if Parliament had not put in aclauec
prohibiting the granting of half-pay to the officers, and if
language of so insulting a kind had not been held with re-
gard to what were called " mercenary troops, Germans,
Belgians, Heaven knows who"—(bear, hear)—thus raising
the national feeling of the continent against us, by this
time we should have had a very different story to tell.
(Hear. hear.) This has not altered the feeling of the con-
tinent with regard to the cause in which we are engaged,
they still say that England is right and wish us success,
but, after the language held with regard to these nationali-
ties, they declare that they cannot takesservice under the
Government. I should not have made this statement,
which might be considered as a reproach to gentlemen in
the two Houses of Parliament, but when I am asked for a
reason I am forced to give it. •(Hear.) Then, my hon.
friend the member for Devonport asked a very rational
question. He said, commissions are given to non-commis-
sioned officers, and those commissions involve considerable
expense, and he asked whether any provision had been
made to enable the gallant men on whom those rewards
were conferred to defray the expenses attendant upon them.
My hon. friend has not studied these estimates, certainly
large in bulk ; but, if he will look to page 4, he will find
that a sum of 5,0001. is proposed to be voted especially as a
gratuity to these deserving men to enable them to meet the
first expenses of their commissions. (Hear, hear.) And, in-
deed, as a proof that we are not unmindful of the services
of non-commissioned officers—even those to whom com-
missions cannot be given—it will be seen that there is a
long list of non-commissioned officers to whom good service
gratuities for life are to be given, amounting to 2,0001. or
more, in the same part which contains the list of pensions
to officers. The hon. gentleman opposite told us that that
happens which I can easily believe—namely, that soldiers
sent to the hospitals are frequently, by the loss of their
knapsacks, rendered destitute of knives and forks, and
those things which are really very essential to their com-
fort, and ho added that difficulty has sometimes arisen in
providing them at the hospitals. That evil was under-
stood, and orders were given to purchase a vary large num-
ber of knives and forks at Marseilles specially for the ser-
vice of Scutari hospital, in order to furnish them to sol-
diers who might come unprovided with those necessary ar-
ticles for their daily use. The hon. member for Aylesbury
certainly made some very proper remarks. He stated that
it was essential that a new supply of tents should be pro-
vided for the use of the army in the ensuing campaign.
I can assure him that that shall be duly attended to, and I
trust the tents will be of a sufficiently substantial descrip-
tion. They will not be old tents ; they will be new tent.,
perfectly fit for the service for which they are destined.
It is quite true that the French have been provided with
a tent much more portable than that of the English, but,
although it is far more portable, i's is by no means so well
adapted to pretest the men from the inclemer cy of the
weather ; it is a most convenient tent for light service ; it
is only about three or four feet from the ground, it barely
affords shelter at the sides, and is easily carried and put
up; but the French officers felt so strongly the infer ieri:y
of their tent as compared with that of our troops, that the
Ftei:anettnicoehunirGasnewnsaisreaaol sent to France for tents upon our model,
considering that, in the weather to which the French troops
were exposed, their tent was an insufficient shelter, and
fmaradbeettaeryperroytegeotolodn
suggestion,
gtghees
tmi
oenn . hon.fTarhobet
than that which was made afterwards, with 'regard to ter
toabitnaeidn
awn :Plitt: be°f light
tc,avalry.
.It is perfectly true as he sug-
g',Bted, that izaiil,lznobability light cavalry might bo ob-
iirtrehreneee,tethr
in
and I am quite sure if it could, it
to point
bringof economy nf
from
India,
a , as
th
e expenditure ttrap-
,cr
sport from that country would be tedious and expensive,

Government at home if we deprivedhin of those able
officers upon whose ability and services he counts in the
event of circumstances arising which might require that
India should be defended as well as the Crimea invaded.

It is unnecessary for me to point out to you that many cir-
circumstances might arise in which it-would be necessary
that the Governor-General of India should have ample

means to protect our territories in that quarter of the
globe. The hon. member for East Surrey wishes to know
what better machinery we have established for providing
and sending out clothing and other things for the troops in
the Crimea. That is exactly ono of the arrangements which
her Majesty's Government have felt it their imperative duty
to give their earnest attention to. We know the great im-
portance of seeing not only that things aro sent, because
abundance of things have been sent from this country, but
also of making arrangements in which the things sent from
this country shall reach the men and the horses for which
they were intended. The defect has not been the want of
things sent flout this country, for forage, ammunition,
horses, everything that could be required has been de-
spatched from this country ; and, whatever may now be
thouelit upon the subject, I venture to say that when the
matter comes to be looked into, it will be found that there
never was sent from England so large a force in so short a
time, so fully equipped, 50 well provided with everything
necessary for the comfort of the officers and men, and for
the service for which they were destined, as the army
which was sent to the East in the course of the past year.
The deficiencies arose from the want of arrangements for
conveying to the men and to the horses the things that
were sent for them. And I must say that there were great
truth and great force in the observations which fell from
the hon. member for NortlaWarwickehire (Mr.Newdegate)
in answer to the attack which have been made upon the
aristocracy, along with whom I suppose we must include
the gentry of this country ; for I believe the term " aris-
tocracy" includes the two. In reply to the charges that
our army hid not been so successful as it ought to have
been, in consequence of the great number of gentlemen
who are officeis in it, I think the hon. member made the
most triumphant answer, by showing that where your
system has broken down—that where evil has arisen
from the want of capacity, of energy, of intelligence,
or of the accurate and zealous performance of duty—it was
not that the gentry, not that the aristocracy, lot that the
noblemen in the army were in fault; but persons belonging
to other classes of the community. It is in the medical
department, the commissariat department, and the trans-
port. department, which nobody contends are filled with
.the sons of the aristocracy or the gentry. It is there that
your system has broken down—it is there that the service
has failed ; and this it is that has been the main cause of
the suffering of which we are all complaining. (Hear.)
Now, the hon. member for North Warwickshire also ex-
pressed his hope that the new clothing for the army would
be provided in time to be of use for the ensuing campaign.
I can assure the hon. gentleman and this House that no
efforts shall be omitted to secure the promptest despatch
of that clothing ; and I entertain not the slightest doubt
that it will arrive of the proper quality and in due time.
I believe that I have now touched upon most of the re-
marks which have been made during the discussion. No-
body disputes the importance of having a large and effec-
tive army. I don't apprehend that any hon. member
objects to the amount of force that we propose, or to the
extent of the other means required to make that force
effective. I trust that between this and the openingof the
next campaign the Government will be able to organise a
sufficient army of reserve to give it the power of putting
into the field a force sufficient to cope with whatever diffi-
culties it may have to contend. And lam perfectly satis-
fied, if that army shall be called upon to vindicate the
honour of England, and maintain its interests by the con-
tinuance of the war, that the country will find that the
duty required of it will be well performed—that the ex-
perience of. the last few months will have enabled us to
correct those faults and errors which have unfortunately
been committed, and that by the various instrumentalities
which the Government are setting to work to reorganise
and rearrange tha different departments of the service, we
shall be able to send into the field an army of which the
country will be proud, and whose achievements will, I
trust, deserve the thaaks and acknowledgments of Parlia-
ment.
Colonel SIBTHORP said that when he heard from the
noble lord at the head of the Government that a noble lord
who bad been sufficiently condemned and convicted by the
country was to be sent to Vienna to patch up a sort of
peace, he could not help expressing a fear that that peace
would not be creditable or honourable to the country. He
was very glad that that noble lord had retired, and he
hope 1 to God he never would come forth again. (A laugh.)
The noble lord the member for Tiverton had seemed to
threaten hon, members behind him with a dissolution of
Parliament. Well, he (Colonel Sibthorp) did not care if
there were.- Old birds were not to be caught with chaff—(a
laugh)—and that threat would not induce him to vote
with the noble lord. The former Government had not
done their duty, and although he hoped that the present
Government would do theirs, he could not help entertain-
ing some apprehensions, seeing that it was composed of
nearly the same members as the late Administration.
After a few words from Mr. PIGOTT,
Mr. BARROW wished to know whether steps had been
taken to provide the 10th Hussars, now on their way from
India, with clothing suitable to the climate of the Crimea,
and also with tents for themselves and their horses ?
Mr. PEEL said- the regiment in question was not pro-
ceeding directly to the Crimea, but would remain in India
until the winter was past.
Mr. J. BALL denied that the hon. member for Ayles-
bury (Mr. Layard) had imputed to any one class or rank of
the army an inferior desire to perform their duty. -What he
did say, and what the country believed, was that the
public affairs would not be properly administered until
steps were taken to put in responsible and arduous positions
men of ability and energy, in whatever rank they inight be
found. He regretted, however, to see that the Government
had shown no disposition to recognise this necessity, and
had taken no bettor steps to remedy the proved deficiency
of ability in many departments of the army in the Crimea
than by sending out commissioners. For instance, the cor-
respondence with respect to the supply of roasted coffee to
the troops which had been laid on the table of the house,
had quite sufficiently shown the deficiencies of Commissary
General Filler, upon whom the wu'l-being of the army in
great measure depended, and yet it did not appear that any
steps had been taken for his removal. He particularly ob-
jected to the conducting of business by moans of private
correspondence, which throw difficulties in the way of the
obtaining information by Parliament.
Colonel KNOX suggested, upon the best authority, that
it would be inconvenient to enlist men for varying periods.
Ho should at the proper time put a question, which he had
previously put without obtaining an answer, upon the
subject of money transmitted by soldiers in the East to their
families.
Mr. J. WILSON explained that when the coffee was
first sent out it was net sent as rations, but as special com-
fort. As soon as practicable after it was ordered tethe.
issued as a ration, it was issued ready roasted. During
the Kafir war coffee wus issued to tho men in a green state,
because iu that state it was found to keep better than it
roasted. It was also the practice of the French to send
the coffee to the Crimea unroasted. The private letters to
which the hon, member (Mr. Ball) had referred were
supplementary to, and not instead of, public documents.
Colonel NORTH complained that areturn he had moved
for on the subject of the coffee had not been made exactly
as required. The reply to Mr. Collier's offer to supply
roasted coffee, sent by Sir Charles Trevolyan, was, in his
opinion, couched in Insolent and disrespectful terms. He
should like to know the reasons which induced the Go-
vernment to decline Mr. Collier's offer to assist in grinding
the coffee for our soldiers in the Crimea. If the French
had a complete apparatus, as he had boon informed they
had, for grindiug and roasting their coffee in the camp,
he would ask why it was that the English army had not the
same facilities? (Hear.) It was perfectly disgraceful that
we were not placed on a similar footing with the French
in this respect.
Colonel BOLDER() bore additional testimony to the
bad state both of the coffee and the porter in the English
camp, from the communications he had received from the
Crimea.

Mr. WILSON contended that Sir Charles Trevelyan was
perfectly justified, under tho circumstances, in declining
Mr. Collier's offer to assist in grinding the coffee, he
having, at that time, every reason to believe that there
was no necessity for such assistance.
Some further conversation ensued on the subject of the
unroasted coffee, in which Mr. Walpole, Mr. Wilson, and
Colonel North took part, and the vote was agreed to.
The next vote of 7,353,8011., for defraying the charge of
of her Majesty's land forces, was then agreed to without
discussion.

TH SUNi LoNDONs TUESDAY EvENU______,4l§j„l. IFEBRUARY 20, isas,

Ross Old Bank, Herefordshire, Rose--Mao.
douga and Allaway
Saffron Walden and North Essex Bank, Saffron
Walden—Gibsons and Co.
Salop Bank, Shrewsbury—Burton, Lloyd, and
Co
Scarbor').,sh Old Bank, Scarborough—Weodall
and Co.
Shrewsbury Old Bank and Shrewsbury and
Ludlow Bank, Shrewsbury—Rocke, Eytons,
and Co.
Sittinghourne and Milton Bank, Sittingbourne
—Valla,nce and Co.
Southampton Town and County Bank, South-
ampton—Maddison and Pearce
Southwell Bank, Southwell—Wylde and Co
Southampton and Hampshire Bank, Southamp-
ton—Atherley, Fell, and Co.
Stone Bank, Stone—W. Moore
Stafford Old Bank, Stafford—Stevenson and
Co
Stamford and Rutland Bank, Stamford—Eaton,
Cayley and Co.
Shrewsbury and Welshpool Bank, Shrewsbury
--Beck, Downward, and Co.
Taunton Bank, Taunton—H. and R. Badcock 25,216
Tavistock Bank, Tavistock—Gill and Rundle 7,973
Thornbury Bank, Thornbury—Rolph and Co. 4,846
Tiverton and Devonshire Bank, Tiverton
Dunsford and Co.
Thrapston and Kettering Bank, Northampton-
shire—Thrapston, Yorke and Eland
Tring Bank and Chesham Bank, Tring—But-
cher and Son
Towcester Old Bank, Towcester—Percival and
Co
Town and County of Poole Bank and Ring-
wood and Poole Bank, Poole—G. W. Led-
gard and Sons
Union Bank, Cornwall, Helston—Vivian and
Co
Uxbridge Old Bank, Uxbridge—Hull, Smith;
and Co
Wallingford Bank, Wallingford—Hedges,
Wells, and Co'
Warwick and Warwickshire Bank, Warwick—
K. Greenway and Co.
Wellington Somerset Bank, Wellington—Fox,
Brothers, and Co
West Riding Bank, Wakefield, and Pontefract
Bank, Wakefield— Leatham, Tew, and Co
Whitby Old Bank, Whitby—Simpson, Chap-
man, and Co
Winchester, Alresford, and Alton Bank, Win-
chester—Bulpett and Co
Winchester and Hampshire Bank, Winchester
—Wickham and Co
Weymouth Old Bank and Dorchester Bank,
Weymouth—Eliott and Pearce
Wirksworth and Ashbourne Derbyshire Bank,
Wirksworth—Arkwright and Co
Wisbech and Lincolnshire Bank, Wisbech—
Gurneys and Co
Wiveliscorube Bank, Wiveliscombe— P. and
W. Hancock
Wolverhampton Bank, Wolverhampton—Good-
' ricke and Holyoake
Worcester Bank, Worcester—Farley, Laven-
der, and Co
Worcester Old Bank and Tewkesbury Old
Bank, Worcester—Berwick, Lechmere, and
Co..

3,863

35,273

16,222

24,400

41,121

2,865

16,509
13,584

Worcestershire Bank, Kidderminster—Farley,
Turner, and Co
Walsall Old Bank, Walsall—Charles Forster
and Sons
Wolverhampton Bank, Wolverhampton—R
and W. F. Fryer
Yarmouth and Suffolk Bank, and lialesworth
and Suffolk Bank, Yarmouth—Gurneys,
Birbeck, and Co
Yarmouth, Norfolk, and Suffolk Bank, Great
Yarmouth—Sir E. 11. K. Lacon, Bart., and
Co
York Bank, York— Swann, Clough, and C 0....

JOINT-STOCK BANKS.

Bank of Westmorland, Kendal
Barnsley Banking Company, Barnsley
Bradford Banking Company, Bradford
Bilston District Banking Company, Wolver-

hampton
Bank of Whitehaven, Whitehaven
Bradford Commercial Banking Company,

4,513
360

12,947

29,330

10,960

11,632

13,039

8,262

11,537

12,93

15,220

8,296

21,807

6,443

48,257

14,494

20,354

13,685

57,551

56,061

6,921

11,511

0,716

68,811

8,631

11,505

50,885

12,974
43,247

8,073
9,548
48,151

9,125
31,123

Bradford
Burton, Uttoxeter, and Staffordshire Union
Banking Company, Burton-upon-Trent
Chesterfield and North Derbyshire Banking
Company, Chesterfield
Cumberland Union Banking Company, Work-
ington
Cheltenham and Gloucestershire Banking Corn-
pony, Cheltenham
Coventry and Warwickshire Banking Company,
Coventry
Coventry Union Banking Company, Coventry 14,858
County of Gloucester Banking Company, Chel-
tenham
Carlisle and Cumberland Banking Company,
Carlisle
Carlisle City and District Bank, .Carlisle
Dudley and West Bromwich Banking Company,
Dudley 36,692
Derby and Derbyshire Banking Company,
Derby
Darlington District Joint Stock Banking Com-
pany, Darlington
East of England Bank, Norwich • ••;, 24,490
Gloucestershire Banking company,- Woucester '152,761
Halifax Joint Stock Bank, Halifax 17,553
Huddersfield Banking Company, Huddersfield 32,023

18,445

62,107

10,031

33,576

9,507

_
Hull Banking Company, Hull • 28,250
Halifax Commercial Banking Company, Halifax 13, 302
Halifax and Huddersfield Union Banking Com-
pany, Halifax
Helston Banking Company, Helston
Herefordshire Banking Company, Hereford
Knaresborough and Claro Banking Company,
Knaresborough 28,012
Kingsbridge Joint-Stock Bank, Kingsbridge 4,002
Lancaster Banking Company, Lancaster 52,63
Leeds Banking Company, Leeds
Leicestershire Banking Company, Leicester 76,288
Lincoln and Lindsey Banking Company 50,185
Leamington Priors and Warwickshire Banking
Company, Leamington Prim
Ludlow and Tenbury Bank, Ludlow 9, 855
Moore and Robinson's Nottinghamshire Bank-
ing Company, Nottingham
Nottingham and Nottinghamshire Banking
Company, Nottingham 25,388
Newcastle, Shields, and Sunderland Union
_ _ _

40,500
1,453
19,416

33,39

Joint-Sock Banking Company, Newcastle-
upon-Tyne --
National Provincial Bank of England, Birming-
ham Head-office, 112, Bishopsgate-street,
London 432,750
North Wilts Banking Company, Melksham 44,G33
Northamptonshire Union Bank, Northampton 79,731
Northamptonshire Banking Company, North-

ampton 23,908
North and South Wales Bank, Liverpool 41,006
Pares's Leicestershire Banking Company,
Leicester
Saddleworth Banking Company, Saddleworth.
Sheffield Banking Company, Sheffield
Stamford, Spalding, and Boston Banking Com-
pany, Stamford
Stuckey's Banking Company, Bristol Somerset-
shire Bank, and Somersetshire Bank, Lang-
port 558,270
Shropshire Banking Company, Shiffnall 43,729
Stourbridge and Kidderminster Banking Com-
pany, Stourbridge 66,416
Sheffield and Hallamshire Banking Company,
Sheffield
Sheffield and Rotherham Joint Stock Banking
Company, Sheffield
Swaledale and Wensleydale Banking Company,

50,582
2,091
33,631

21,700

Richmond
Storey and Thomas' Banking Company, Shaftes-

50,458

50,611

bury
Wolverhampton and Staffordshire Banking
Company, Wolverhampton
Wakefield and Barnsley .Union Bank, Wake-

- ,
field
Whitehaven Joint-Stock Banking Company,

Whitehaven
Warwick and Leamington Banking Company,
___

9,772

14,179

12,30

Warwick
West of England and South Wales District
Bank, Bristol
Wilts and Dorset Banking Company, Salisbury
West Biding Union Banking Company, Hud-

26,621

31,647

77,906
71,381

dersfield
Whitchurch and Ellesmere Banking Company,

12,220

Whitchurch
Worcester City and County Banking Com-
pany, Worcester 6,875
York Union Banking Company, York 71,492
York City and County Banking Company, 95,048
Yorkshire Banking Company, Leeds 123,397
P; DEANS, Registrar of Bank Returns.
Inland Revenue, Somerset House,
Jan. 13, 1855.

6,822

THE BRITISH EMPIRIC.—BRISTOL, Sunday.—This
magnificent vessel, the largest merchant sailing-ship
afloat (firmerly the Demerara), which it will be remem-
bered, about two years since was unfortunately stranded
at the Round Point, on leaving this port on her first
outward voyage, left this harbour this morning, and
went down the river to King-road, where she will re-
main for a short time, while her commander, Captain
Vaughan, and her " ship's husband," Captain Wilson,
are completing their arrangements. She will then sail
for Liverpool, at which port she has been chartered by
the eminent firm of Gibbs, Bright, and Co., of Bristol
and Liverpool, fir Callao, whence she is to bring home a
cargo of guano, earning, it is said, for the voyage,
22,5001. In the course o the voyage her saihn; quali-
tiee will be tested, and, should the expectatiene formed
of her be rea'ised, she will be at once put on the Austr: -
Ban et ition. She regi-fens 3,011 tons, and will carry 54
or 55 hands, The Demerara, it will be rememl ored,
was a steamer ; she has been completely restored from
the effects of her late mishap, and converted frcm a
steamer into a sailing vessel, and is now called the Bri-
tish Empire. The effect of removing the paddle-boxes
ha:, been apparently to increase the length of the ship,
but it is is appearance only, the actual dimensions of the
British Empire being precisely those of the Demerara.
A new and exceedingly elegant figure-head has been
fitted to her, beautifully gilt and emblazoned. Her sym-
metrical build and good oaring qualities promise that
she will long continue a specimen of the skill of Bristol
shipwrights.