The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-09 00:00:00

WOOLLEN TRADE.

(From, the Leeds Mercury of this day.)
LEEDS, June B.—We have no change to report in the
state of the woollen trade. The markets continue very
steady, and a fair average business is regularly doing.
There is a fair steady trade doing in the warehouses, and
quite as much as is usual at this period of the year. It
is mainly for the home market.
HIIDDERSIFELD, June s.—The market has been very
quiet to-day. More buyers from the metropolis and
large towns have been present, but their transactions
have been on a very limited scale.
HALIFAX, June 2.—We have little to add to last
week's report of this market. The most prominent fea-
ture is an apparent tendency to stiffer prices for most
kinds of combing wool, and the remark will also apply
to South Devon fleeces. The arrivals of new wool are
only scarce yet, but we may expect them in larger quan-
tity very soon.

MINING INTELLIGENCE.

( From the Mining Journal of this day.)

The demand for mining shares has been good this
week, but there has been rather a scanty supply, and
the actual business transacted has not, in consequence,
been of the large amount of previous weeks. Further
advances have taken place in the price of some of the
best shares in dividend mines, and among them
Rosewarnes have reached 2001., having steadily,
risen from 701. since we first called public at-
tention to the mine, only a few months ago. South
Frances, 5001., Bassets, 6801. to 7001. There was a divi-
dend of 201., and a bonus of 2/. 10s. per share, declared
on Tuesday, and we understand there is a probability of
a 51. bonus at future bi-monthly accounts. West Bas-
sets have been in demand at 291. 10s. to 801., 311., but
few sellers to be found. North Basset, 27. ; Devon
Great Consols, 365/. to 3701. ; Wheal Kitty (Lelant)
401. to 451. ; Wheal Kitty (St. Agnes), 3/. ; Clijab and
Wentworth, 151.105. to 161.10 s.; North Robert, 261. to
281.; Vale of Towey, 17s. 6d. to 1. 2s. 6d.; North Towy,
7s. 6d.•' Wheal Wrey, 51. ss. • South Tamar, 61.155. ;
Marko Valley, 51. to Si. 55.; the new discovery here, to
which we referred a week or two since, has yielded 70 tons
of rich ore in five weeks, merely from driving on the course
of the lode ; no ground has yet been stoped away, al-
though it could be done for 6d. in 11. Such a discovery
as this in either Camborne or Illogan would have sent
shares to 201. each. The company have also, we
understand, obtained a new lease for twenty-one years, at
1-18th dues. West Frances, 201. to 211., call paid ; East
Basset, 451. to 46/. ; West Seton, 2001. to 2101. ; North
Crotty, 111. 10s. to 121. 10s. ; Cwm Darrens have been
hdee rcaobrnlepiamt
yp riosyseumehentthai nt ifsu
rmt
hi neer, d
calls largely dealt in at Sc. to 7s. 6d., and still in demand ,
no tahri
a veryposition coonf
anticipated ; the lode in the bottom of the h
s aft 38 f
deep, is yielding 10 m and 5 tg. of copper nlB,
cwts. of rich
lead per fm. ; the stopee in the back of the 30 are worth
25 cwts. of copper and 6 cwts, of lead
per fm. It would
appear that for the whole length driven on in the 30 fm.
level the ores have been got from a b
driving a cross-cut the main lode ranch, and that by
10 ft. wide, saving work
has lately been found
U. l* to 2/. 54throughout, Wheal Render,

IMPERIAL PAiILIAMEN T.

HOUSE OF COMMONS--YESTERDAY.
PETITIONS.
Several petitions were presented by Lori J. Man-
vers, against church-rates, and for closing public-
houses on Sundays ; by Mr. Cranford, several petitions
from Scotland against the Lord Advocate's Education
Bill ; by Mr. A. Hastie, from places in Scotland against
the Maynooth Grant; by Mr. C. Bruce, against the
Lord Advocate's Education Bill ; by Mr. Cobden,
from Saddleworth and other places in Yorkshire, for
repealing the Sunday Beer Bill ; by the Lord Advocate,
petitions from places in Scotland in favour of the Edu
cation Bill, against the Maynooth grant, and for the
repeal of the Sunday Beer
PROSECUTION OF THE WAR—ADJOURNED
DEBATE.
On the order of the day for resuming the adjourned
debate,
Mr. SCOTT said his right hon. friend the member for
Buckinghamshire had placed upon the paper a notice so
plain and distinct that the country fully understood
After referring to the different mot ons which had been
brought before the house in the Course of the debate, VI..
hon. gentleman proceeded to
questionsathat w wehiwcherehan2lwbdieesi:
cussing identically the same
raised throughout, only 'tinder a different form to that
in which it was first introduced. Revolve it as they'
would, the question was still the same,—the conduct
of the war and the management of thenations
for peace. The right hon. baronet opposite (Sir James
Graham), although he was theoretically and morally
in favour of the 'motion of the right hon. member for
Buck'', he nevertheless voted against his own convic-
tions on the side of the Government, in which example
he was followed by the two right hon. gentlemen who
sat beside him. This they had done, it was said, in
order not to upset the present Cabinet, but he (Mr. Scott)
tshoisscgruuepsutlioanushteo
Awfotuerldthreemopinindiotuhsese right
thosehon. gentlemen that there
was a time, and that not long ago, when they were not
most important for them to
sahvoouilddthhaevgedislocation of the Cabinet.
amldwee
abasawnt when e
that
which
influence.hatigh
ctehi their
bg eh t opinions
There
one hadfe atusr oe
ehnt
have
vloeeumgehnt i
th
retainedawdo
uexpressed
formeroe
positions in the Cabinet rather than to have deserted it
on
abtenaefictii
couldwh
en
the
et
housebut mention,
was
and
en-
gaged hheint one of the most interesting debates which could
affect the character of public men, and the welfare and
happiness of this country, there was an attempt made
by the supporters of the Government on the other
side of the house to bring the debate to a conclusion
by counting out the house, and some Cabinet Mi-
nisters who were not far off thought it not worth
their while to take any steps to prevent such is
course. Whatever opinions they might entertain, they
at all events seemed to think that what took place in
that house was of less importance than that which was
occurringin tbelobby. He mustalso say that he was much
surprised that the noble lord at the head of the Govern-
ment should have allowed the speech of the hon. member
for Manchester to go forth to the country unanswered ;
and he (Mr. Scott) regarded it as a sign of weakness, or
division in the Cabinet, that they had had only two
Cabinet Ministers, as yet, who had expressed their
opinions on the vital question before the house at.a
time, too, when the country was looking so anxiously
to whatever they might have to say. (Hear, hear.)
Six Cabinet Ministers had seats in that house,
and this was the sixth night of the debate, but
only two of those gentlemen had as yet condescended to
express their opinions. In the present condition of the
country it became of great importance that we should
know what were the sentiments entertained by public
men. It had been said that the Opposition ought to
point out what should be done. It was not the duty, he
contended, of the Opposition to dictate to the Government;
their business was to take care that the Government did
not embarrass the country. The country and the press
bad been unjustly charged with precipitating the nation
into war. The hon. member. after some further obser-
vations, concluded by stating that he should support the
amendment of the hon. member for Kidderminster.

Sir F. BARING saidthet—inbringing 'forward his
amendment he did it not from any opposition to the Go.
vernment, but to support it against the attack of the
right hon. gentleman the member for Buckinghamshire.
When he proposed his amendment the conferences at
Viennahad not been closed, andhethought that undersuch
circumstances it would have been unfair to have censured
the Government. Circumstances had since then changed,
and the important point now for the house to deal with
was the amendment of the hon. member for Kiddermin-
ster. He bad been told by the noble viscount at the
head of the Government that the words of that amend-
ment were better than his. He had his own opinion
upon that point ; but still, if the house preferred it, be
would at once give way. The resolution of the hon.
member for Kidderminster was anything but sul-,-
stantial, because if the house carried it, the greatest
loophole would be left to escape from every undertaking
that had been entered into. Much had been said
_ale ut
the preponderance of Russia in the Black Sea. Of all
the propositions he had heard, none seemed to him so
plausible for the prevention of that supremacy as the
proposition of the present Government. It appeared to
him that the house would not, upon the amendments
that had been proposed, come to any satisfactory con-
clusion. As to the amendment of Mr. Lowe, he thought
the difference between that amendment and his own was
more a matter of taste than of politics ; and as he had
always found in publicThfe that the most troublesome
persons to deal with were those who had a pedantic at-
tachment to words and phrases, he would not object to
Mr. Lowe'. first amendment, on the understanding that
it did not alter the sense of his own resolution. But
he bad a strong objection to the honourable mem-
ber's second amendment, because it left the Govern-
ment free to ma',e any terms they pleased on all the
points except the third. With regard to this third point,
he was surprised at the arguments used by Sir James
Graham and Mr. Gladstone, as if the Russian proposi-
tion to allow Turkey to call in her allies was a boon con-
ceded by Russia, seeirg that, in the protoeol of the 29th
of April, that very power was claimed by Turkey as her
right, without any reference whatever to the consent of
Russia. But, mere than that, these right hon. gentle.
men gave great and deserved praise to the good faith of
our French ally. But he would ask whether we were
keeping good faith with France in turn, if; after pledging
ourselves, as we had done, not to make peace without
France, we were now to lay down 'certain terms with or
without which peace was not to be made? He ridiculed
the idea of a great party division being taken on the
simple words of Mr. Lowe's first amendment, that the
conferences had been broken off in consequence of Rus-
sia refusing to limit her fleet in the Black Sea, and hoped
the house would not be misled by such an attempt.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the Government
was attacked by various parties and from opposite quar-
ters. One consolation was that many of the shafts flew
over their heads and fell among the ranks of parties op-
posite. He attacked Mr. Cobden and Mr'. Bright for
their envenomed attacks upon the Ministers, and for
making the sacred cause of peace a stalking-horse from
behind which to disci-ergo envenomed shafts against
political opponents. Turning then to the seceding mem-
bers of the Cabinet, he said those gentlemen had brought
the country into war, had then deserted their colleagues,
and now lent their powerful aid to discourage the coun-
try, to dishearten their allies, and to inspire their
enemies with the reflection that they had influential
ranks among the statesmen of England. Sir James
Graham gave as a reason for concluding peace, that all
wars in modern times had become unpopular after a
few years. There-was some truth in that representation
for special reasons connected with those wars ; but
even assuming that this war should become unpopular
like the rest, was that a reason for concluding a disho-
nourable peace ? What an argument was that to put
into the mouths of our enemies—that if they will only
persevere, England will soon grow weary of the war,
and insist on peace ! He then dilated at some length
on the aggressive tendencies of Russia—tendencies which
he believed to be ineradicable, and therefore it was neces-
sary to have some material guarantee for the independene
of Turkey. It was said that that guarantee would be se-
cured by allowing Turkey to call her allies into the Black
Sea whenever her independence was menaced. But that
amounted to no guarantee whatever ; for it was absurd
to suppose that Turkey had not the power to do that
independent of treaties. On the other band, he held
that the limitation of her fleet, as proposed fber the
Allies, did contain in it the elements of a guarantee.
And if that guarantee were not secured—if Rus-
sia obtained possession of Constantinople, it would
not be long before she interfered with our commerce in
the Mediterranean, and with our empire in the East.
He thought, therefore, the Government had done
rightly in rejecting the Russian propositions. He depre-
cated these discussions about phrases and nice distinc-
tions when the conferences had closed, and when peace
was to be hoped for only through the Wile of victory.
Sir F. THESIGER also deprecated the continuance
of a discussion whether there should be peace or war at
a time when all present prospect of peace had closed ;
but he thought the tipse had now come when the house
ought to inquire how these negotiations had been con-
ducted. He believed that they had been conducted
most unsatisfactorily, and that arising in great part from
o
the unfortunate choice of a negotiator. The hon. and
learnedof t gentlemanhe origiorigin
of enteredthe
war,
andinto
fatee or e rde
lengtheneddexamina-
tionopinins
great measure accounted
of Lord J. Russell with regard to the ambitious views
inhaad come to an end, which
he said,
for the failure of the negotiations.
part, he re-
joiced ele du thatsa, which,th negotiations or his
could only baveoled, in the hands
to a peace that would have been discreditable to the
of such a negotiator,
e
country. They must now look
success, and he trusted they would be sharper than the
w
honourable Peace which in for the nation that safe and
Mr. LLOYD was the desire of them all.
NAVIES could not understand how
gentlemen who had begun the war should now thinkit
right to condemn
t
of the . For his part, he thought the ob-
ject
war could not be gained till they obtained
material some guarantee from Russia ; and he would
-not lend himself to any vote that should weaken the
hands of the Ministry in a vigorous prosecution of the
war.

Mr. BENTINCIC also expressed his intention to
oppose all the amendments.
Mr. CARDWELL repelled the imputations which
the Attorney-General had thrown on the motives of the
seceding members of the Cabinet. According to him
Russia was not to be bound by treaty ; and yet the hon.
and learned gentleman was now serving the second Go-
vernment that had attempted to make a treaty with
Russia. He severely commented on the rashness of the
Attorney-General, who had told Europe in the face
to
hf Parliamente balance
of tphoawt
ew b
r,e
but
td t
ogoneeav
et o
India. war, notvir toth regardmaintain
to
o
the question before the house, he came down prepared
to support the resolution of Sir F. Baring in preference

to that of Mr. Lowe. He did so because he held that it
would be most unwise on the part of the House of Com-
mons to fetter any Government as to the terms on which
peace was to be concluded. It would be far better to con-
tinue in the course the house had always followed —to
entrust to the Crown the conduct of the negotiations ;
but at the same time to make it known to the Govern-
ment that the war was to be pursued for objects
that were real and practical—not vague and remote.
Mr. WALPOLE complained that up to this moment
the house did not know what was the policy of, the
• Government except it was to be gathered from-the in-
flammatory speech of the Attorney-General that would
land us in a perpetual war ; for, according to him, our
enemy was a power so perfidious that we could never
trust him. He rose, therefore, to ask from the head of
the Government a statement of something like the DO•
licy which the Government intended to pursue. He
entirely agreed with the Government that the war was
just and necessary—a war so just that they ought not to
have avoided it if they could, and so necessary that they
courd not have avoided it even if they would. Were 2
the
objects of the war to be obtained by the negotiations .
He thought they were—at least to
this extent—
that if they were justified in entering into nego-
tiations at all, they were not justified in break-
ing them off in the way they had done. He gave
no opinion, however, on the point whether the
negotiations ought ever to have been entered into. Now
that they were broken off, hehad to consider what course
the house had now to take. He objected to the first
part of Mr. Lowe's amendment, because, in point of fact,
it was not strictly true ; and he objected to the second
part, that it would limit the power of future negotiators,
and because the limitation it recommended was practi-
cally illusory. He went through the amendments in
the same manner, objecting to them all, and he hoped
the Government would adhere to the course indicated
by Lord John Russell at the close of his last speech, in
which he promised that the Government would come
down with an address to the Crown.
Lord J. RUSSELL intimated that that was on con-
dition of the amendments being all withdrawn.
Mr. WALPOLE thought that ought to make no
difference and he earnestly urged upon Ministers
the necessity of now clearly defining the objects of
the war, and of stating whether the four points
were now the main objects of the war, or whether
we had gone beyond them, and if we still held to them,
to explain their construction of the third point. That
bad never been done yet ; and to show that it had not,
the right hon. hart. went into a lengthened review of
the different treaties, negotiations, and protocols, which
preceded and accompanied the events of the war. This
uncertainty and ambiguity on the part of the Govern-
ment had led to most extravagant expectations, and had
misled the people of this country. Some held that Sebas-
topol must be taken at all hazards—others insisted that
Russia ought to be checked in Asia—others that she
must be stripped of all her conquests made during the
last half century ; and others still were for waking up a
war of nationalities. Many of these would have their
expectations still further inflamed by the speech of the
Attorney-General, which, if the Prime Minister did
not temper down to-night, there would be no peace for
the next ten years. In conclusion he denied that the
Conservatives wished to make a party question of this
subject, and pledged his support to the Government on
condition that they would clearly define their policy.:
Mr. HORSMAN defended the speech of tho Attor-
ney-General. He was as warm an admirer of peace as
Mr. Bright, and he believed every member of the house
bad the same feeling. But what was peace t War post-
poned till resistance became impossible was not peace,
and serious as was the responsibility incurred by the Mi-
nister who pronounced for war, still more serious was
the responsibility incurred by him who declined war
when circumstances rendered it necessary. He explained
that the Four Points were urged upon England by Aus-
tria, and were accepted by our Government not as the
best terms that might have been insisted on, but as a
compromise. He contended that Turkey gained no ad-
vantage from the first two points, and as to the third, he
could not understand how Mr. Cobden or Mr. Bright
could support the Russian proposition, which involved.
the country in the great annual expense of keeping up a
large fleet at all seasons ready to enter tile Black Sea.
He contended that Parliament had entered into the war
to defend Turkey, and we could not now recede from it
with honour.

Mr. DISRAELI—I have heard in the course of this
debate now prolonged for an unusual time many diff4r-
ent characters of our discussion. I hale heard it called
a discussion without an object. I have heard it called a
wearisome discussion. I have listened to gentlemen
apologising for prolonging a debate which was tedious ;
there was a moment when the house, now so crowded,
seemed to tremble for its existence. Four days Lave
elapsed, and it is now my duty to offer an impartial opi-
nion on the subject. (Laughter and cheers.) I can
truly say that, unwilling as l am and unnecessary as
I have thought it, having lately expressed opinions
on the important subject on which we were engnti.ed
very lately, for me to interfere in it on the pre-
sent occasion, I am yet bound to express my sinters
opinion that since I'have had the high honour of sitting
in this house I have never listened to a debate more im-
.portant, upon a subject of more transcendent interes,, in
which greater abilities have been shown in its conduct,
,in ,which a more important issue has been at stake,
which has thrown-greater light upon public transac-
tions, which has placed public men iu a reuse intelligible
position—(laughter)—than this debate, which it has been
convenient for some to characterise as a debate of little
importance. (Hear.) My opinion is that it will be re-
cognised by the country, not only in its immediate cha-
racter, but in its ultimate consequences, as one of the
most impottantdiscus4ons that ever was originated and
sustained in the House of Coramons. But we are told •
that even the object of the debate is a mystery. There are
gentlemen—l should hope, gentlemen who have not been
present during the discussion—who really do not know
what is the point upon which we aregoing to decide. Now,
before I presuine to of-ir any observations up m the topic
before us, the house will not think it lnreasonable if I
try to ascertain in a manner which can no longer he qrtes-
tioned what is the character of that issue— what is the
question before us, what we are to ()cello by the
im-
pending vot-, and what may be the consequences of plat
vote. I will first explain to the house thu reason which

induced use suddenly to give the notice which I placed on
the paper. It was a notice of motion asking the house
to express its opinion that in consequence of the anibi-
guity ofite language, and the uncertainty of the c >aduct
of her Majesty's Government, with respect to the great
question of peace or war, it was our duty to rally round
the throne, and assure her Majesty we would stand by
her. The reason why I gave that notice so very sud-
denly on behalf of those with whom I have the honour to
act was this—we had cause to believe that her Majesty's
Government were on the point of concluding a peale_e
peace which I will not characterise as inglorious or igno-
minious, because these are epithets to which different peo-
ple may a scribe different meanings—but a peace which, in
onropinion, was one which would have caused a great end
a just discontent in the country, and, which was of Car
greater importance than the discontent of the country,
a peace which would nut have accomplished the great
object of the war, which I take to he to maintain the
power of the Ottoman Porte at Constantinople. Tin-ler
these circumstances, we had to consider whether the
conduct of her Majesty's Ministers, or whether the
language of her Majesty's Ministers, was in consonance
with the behaviour which we were induced to believe
they were about to fellow. We found such uncertainty
about it, and the declarations of the Government w -re
so doubtful, that we felt it our duty at once to ask the
house to declare an opinion on the subject—the house
being about to-,adjoure—and to decide whether in their
opinion there was that ambiguity in the language and
that uncertainty in the conduct of her Majesty's Mi-
nisters which justified that interference. The house
remembers well the issue of that debate. (Hear, beer.)
A majority decided that my resolution should not be
sanctioned. (Hear, hear,) It decided nothing more. I
may be permitted to say that every honourable member
who took pert in that debate, on whatever side he set
—every member almost who has taken part in this
renewed debate has found the amplest materials for his
speeches in demonstration of the ambiguity of the lan-
guage and the uncertainty of the conduct of her Ma-
jesty's Ministers, and it was a very strange thing, which
I am sure the house will hardly target, that the night,
when the division was called, while the numbers were
still in the ears of every member and the rash cheers of
gentlemen opposite were still sounding—proving that a
majority of the House of Commons would not sanction
the imputation of ambiguity of language or uncertainty
of conduct on the part of the chiefs of the Ministry—one
of the most distinguished gentlemen who had voted on
that side instantly rose and brought a strange and start-
ling, but, I think, a well-founded accusation of ambi-
guity of language against the noble lord the member for
the City of London. (Hear.) It is from the motion of
which I gave notice that the question now before us has
arisen, and the house must trace well the pedigree of
the motions on which they are going to vote. Depend
upon it, if you will only give your attention, the pedi-
gree is clear. It is not that doubtful, that obscure
question that persons too rashly imagine. Let meascer-
tain that before I venture to make the few observations
which it will be necessary for inc to make on the general
question. There was an amendment made to the mo-
tion which I offered to the house. I don't think it ne-
cessary for me to make any remarks on the amendment
of the right hon. gentleman the member for Portsmouth
,annotrom any want of respect for the right hon. gentle-
m_
nature.
because he knows that is a feeling quite foreign to
Y (Laughter.) I think I play say, on the part
of my friends on this side of the hence) that we are not
going to support that '
the had of the amendment. The noble lord at
Governmenthasmore than onceannounced
that he will have nothing odo
with it, and the melt
re-
markable thing to-night . t
thattado the right hon. gentleman
says he will have nothing with his own amend-
ment. (Laughter.) Yet, emberill
broken bridge, which nobody u
on,was the only
means of escape of the Government from
a vote which
the house would have arrived at on the
which
dI
made. Many gentlemen have told me that the
with my views and with the language of that -L agte,rbeeut
they had been informed that it was a vote of confidence
in the Government, and they were not prepared at the
Present time to cause e change in the Government • and
was astonished to see a great authority in this hoise,.
the right hon. member for Carlisle, rise in his place and
vindicate a vote of which he did not approve, and Which,
the moment after, he gave with a feeling of irresistible
penitence. (Laughter.) I was astonished that a gen-
tleman so acquainted with Parliamentary life, and who
is looked upon as a great leader and authority on the
subject, should not have discriminated between a vote
of censure and a vote of want of confidence. Over and
on any
it has been decided that a vote of censure
specific Government is no reason
that
Government should relinquish office. I will take a
case which the right honourable gentleman was

personally concerned. There was a distinguished
a
nobleman, now no more—a man whose abilities
very scant justice was done in his day, but man
of
eminent public service--who was appointed
ambas-
sador to his Majesty. An address to the
erw o n was
moved, praying the Croewnnanemotatnossuapnpcetirotendtthhaati;aapdpdoreines.t-
ment. The right hon. gentleman
But did the Government resign because Lord London-
ade ambassador at St. Petersbu-g ? No.
derry was 111
It was considered. a vote of censure for a speci c object.
I could multiply instances of this kind, but wil not do so
at this late hour. It is quite clear that a vote of censure
for specific acts and a vote of want of confidence are per-
fectly contrary, and the house was justified, if it thought
that the charge I made was a just charge, in voting for
that motion, and the Government would not be justified
in resigning office, and, that is a position which I think
every one will be ready to admit. I will say nothing more
of the amendment of the right hon. member for Ports-
mouth. It was a case of fdo de se. He has himself finished
it to-night, and therefore I will come to the more im-
portant motion of the right hon. member for Kiddermin-
ster. Technically speaking, that motion is an amendment,'
because, unless it had ben put as an amendment to my
motion, it could not have been introduced to the
house. But it is, in fact, in itself a complete proposition.
It is this, in effect, that in consequence of Russia having
refused to reduce the Black Sea fleet the means of nego-
tiation are exhausted so far as the third point is concerned,
and therefore we are called upon to rally round our
Sovereign and support her in the war. It, in fact, calls
on the house to announce that, unless Russia will reduce
her fleet in the Black Sea negotiation is not to be
sanctioned so far as the opinion of the House of Com-
mons is concerned. Well now, what happened when the
division upon my motion took place ? The noble lord,
who is not only the leader of the house, but also the
First Minister of the Crown, and moreover a man pre-
eminently versed in foreign politics, and perfectly aware
of the imßortance of the issue in question, selected this
motion ()lithe member for Kidderminster. He said, " I
discard the clumsy assistance offered by the member for
Portsmouth, and of the many amendments before me I
select that of the hon. member for Kidderminster as the
one to which I give my adhesion, and on which I will
take the sense of the house," and in order that there
might be no mistake, he rose again on the motion for the
adjournment of the debate, and said, " The real question
we have to decide is the conduct of the negotiations by,
her Majesty's Government at the conferences at Vienna.
I Now I admit that the noble lord did on that occasion
say, that he would only agree its that part of the amend-
ment which " regretted that owing to the refusal of Rus-
sia to restrict the strength of her navy in the Black Sea;"
and that there he would stop, and that he would not
agree to that part of the amendment which went on to
.leclare that the means of coming to an agreement on
the third point were thereby exhausted. But what was
the reason given by the noble lord why he could not
agree to the latter part of the resolution ? Of course it
could not be that the means of negotiation were not then
exhausted, because the noble lord was no doubt then
aware that the conferences at Vienna were closed, and
that the means of negotiation were exhausted. He there-
fore did not insist on that—but taking up a random ex-
pression of mine in reply—and really I think express-
pions in reply should not be noticed—that that part of
the amendment of the *hon. member for Kidderminster
was unconstitutional, the noble lord said that it was de-
cidedly unconstitutional, and that therefore he could not
agree to it. Unfortunately on that occasion I re-echoed
an opinion I had heard from the highest authorities in
this house—some of whom are still living, while others
I have left us—that it is an interference with the preroga-
tive for the house to express an opinion as to the terms
on which peace should be obtained or war waged. There
are several opinions that have been going about the
house for some time equally popular and equally un-
founded. (A. laugh.) The hon. member for Leominster
has to-night vindicated the constitutional principle, and
if it was necessary to enforce his arguments or add to
the facts he cited, I could easily show that nothing is
more certain than that it is the privilege and the duty of
the House of Commons on proper occasions to advise her
Majesty as to the terms upon which they should nego-
tiate peace, or the objects for which she ehOuld carry on
war. I think, therefore, that the house may assume
that the solitary reason which the noble lord gave for
not supporting tke motion of the hon. member for Kidder-
minster hag no foundation. But if it had any foun-
n, it is not of the slightest consequence to the clues-
ien before the house. Because if the house, adopting
merely the first part of that motion, address the Crown,
.declaring that in consequence of Russia having refused
to restrict her naval force in the Black Sea, we feel it
our dity to rally round the Throne and support her in
t se war, the only deduction is that we have made that
condition a sine qua non in our negotiations. (Hear.)
I say then that the question before the house is neither
an obscure nor an insignificant one. On the contrary, the
decision of the House of Commons to-night is of vital
importance, an I I would really venture with the ut-
most s;ncerity to impress on the house the nature of
the subjeft r hey are now called on to investigate, and
di owe.) Let me remind them that there is a great dif-
ference heteesen onestions of domestic and questions of
foreign policy. The pryer of a majority of the House
of Commons is omnipotent so far as domestic questions
are concerned. A minister by their aid may support un-
jn t laws and uphold a political system which a quarter
of a century alerwerds may be condemned by the aid of
anot'ler F7,rliamentar r majority. The passions and th,,
Prejudices of party spirit that flourish in a free country
may sup, rt and uphold blot in the course which lie is
n ,vht-n we come to foreign politics things are
ver f different. Every step von take is irretrievable, and
the come luencas of your conduct are immediate end pal-
pable. If you make a mistake in foreign affairs, enter
ieto unwise treaties, conduct cantpaiens on vicious prir-
espies ; if the scope and tendency of your foreign system
is foerided oe want of information or false information,
offering nn clear idea of what are your objects or your
means of obtaining' then, there is no majority of the
Hoses of Coinirons that can support a G-evernment
under eircrimstances. (ricer, hear.) A majority
u i ler such circ unstences will not make a government
stronger, but will make this house weaker. Therefore,
T entreat the house very carefully to consider the course
they are takin 7., lest while they are only supporting their
,owe pelittcal friends they should injure the ceuntry ;
a',(i that when they cheer over a majority as they
'-he red the ether evening, the day may be coming.
and that rapidly, when they will remember that cheer
with cerifsisiol and sha ne. (Oh. oh.) neer the house
t, consider how the house has been treated by the Go-
vernment during this debate. Last night we were al-
dressed at considerable lergth on topics of high interest
hr a late colleague of the First Minister of the Crown,
and by the hon, member for Manchester, who always,
especially on questions of peace and war, addresses
this house with great power, and in a manner which de-
mands; great attention ; but no Cabinet Minister rose to
reply to that speech. To-night another right hon.
gentleman, alsa a colleague of the noble lord, addressed
the house, and that, too, in a vein which required
some response. A right hon, friend of mine
also gave to the house the results of as deep
and as fine a study of these diplomatic documents that
have confused Europe ate' complicated the subject as the
human intellect is capable of. Now, although no one re-
elects more thin I do the talents of the Attorney-
G meral, and of the Secretary t' the Lord-Lieutenant,
The have conducted the debate to-night on the part of
the Government. gat they are not Cabinet Ministers,
are not ac {sainted with the subjects on which we want
infhrmatieP' and c annot speak with authority on the
points on which we require to have some knowledge.
Take the inquiry a Jdressed to the Government by my
right hon. friend the member for Midhurst. He asked
when we might expect to have delivered to us that mes-
sage from the Crown which, for the purpose of influ-
encing the debate, was announced to us by the Secre-
ter.; of State, the late plenipstentiary at Vienna—bile
announcement being corroborated by the First Minister
of the Crown, but which wo have never received. It
certainly was very natural in my right hon. friend to
Ask when we might expect to receive that communication.
No Cabinet Minister rose to give the house the necessary
information. Five nights have passed of a debate on
the most important question that could be imagined, in
which some of the most distinguished men in the house
have taken part, and no Cabinet Minister has con-
descended to rise. That does appear to be a mode of
treating the houie not sanctioned by custom. There
seems a deficiency of respect towards the house which
I should not have anticipated from the noble lord and
his colleagues. The coalition no longer exists, but it is
not to he supposed that administrative ability and de-
bating power have both receded to below the gangway,
therefore I think that the house had a right to expect that
some Cabinet Minister—the First of the Admiralty, for
instance—would have condescended to address it. If
the house thinks it right to declare that the limitation
of the. Russian fleet should be a sine qua non
of peace, it ought to adopt the resolution of the lion.
member for Kidderminster. I am opposed to that re-
solution, not merely because I think it unadvisable that
the house should, in this crude and hasty manner, assent
to a proposition so untenable, and, at least, so important,
but because I think that the proposition ought never to
have been made, and is essentially inefficient. Our
object at present is to check, to control, to diminish, if
possible to destroy, what is called the preponderance of
Russia against Turkey. That preponderance is not
limited to the Black Sea. Of the three quarters from
which Turkey may be menaced by Russia—the Danube,
Asia, and the Black Sea—the Black Sea is the one
which is least to be feared for. The proposition of the
noble lord and the Government only pretends to meet
the difficulties and dangers which may arise from the
Russian preponderance in the Black Sea. I deny that
Russia has, ever had, or ever can have, the power to
send an army with the necessary cavalry, artillery, and
means of transport to any port on the Turkish coasts in
in the Black Sea. On the second night of the debate a
learned sergeant talked of the great expedition of a
Russian army to Unkiar Skelessi, which he estimated at
5,000 men. I think the number was nearer 10,000 or
12,000, but the transport of that small force took all the
power of Russia, facilitated- by the Turks, who were
most anxious to receive the Russians. All that Russia
could under any circumstances do she did in 1828, when
she disembarked forces at Scezepoli and Bourgae. Those
armies had no power of moving, and could have no effect,
except in making, to a certain extent, a military diver-
sion in favour of Russia, which was then invading Turkey
from the Danube. There is only one point of the coast on
Turkey,
ammunition not
t
which Turkey could be assailed, and that is the Bosphorus.
Ido not pretend to say that the command of the sea
igsreeat advantage to Russia in any war with
and
one
tn
to her
lteinr gt
decisiver
ohere p to transportu
at is stores,
a m arms,e
a vaannd-
asb ttottbhe .
tage,
forces of Turkey result ol at the nature
number of ships fa-twdar. dLook
thed reciprocal limitation of the naval
Russia. Turkey is to have a cer-
tainnumber in the Bosphorus.
the Black Sea, and an unlimited
limited number of ship.soirnustli Russia is to have only a
as many as she likes atNicol e Black Sea, but may build
ships.
hays
seen
thlra ateff, where she builds all hey
floated thence to Sebastopol la

four or five days, and rigged, ammunitioned, armed, and
prepared in the course of another week. What then be-
comes of the treaty ? Suppose there is the most rigid,
exact, and scrupulous observance of the treaty, all that
Turkey gains is at the most an advantage in case of war
of three or four weeks. But if that happens which is sure
to happen—if Russia declares war, or manages, as she
usually does, that Turkey shall declare war when Russia
is quite ready and prepared for her—why, of course, you
have a Russian fleet in the Black Sea before the diplo-
matic note is drawn up which can remonstrate against
the violation of the treaty. It requires, therefore, but
common forethought and prudence on the part of Russia
to enable her to have in case of war a fleet in the Black
Sea without sending to the United States for any of
thosol3o gun ships of which we have heard so much. I
think there are good reasons why the war should be con-
tinued ; but, according to the terms of the Government,
war ia to be waged indefinitely because the Russian Go-
vernment will not agree to a condition which, totally
irrespective of its impolicy, is utterly inefficient. (Hear,
hear.) Suppose Russia should send troops, as she did
before, to Scezepoli and Bourgas. If a fleet belonging
t 3 the Western Powers bad passed the Bosphorus in
1818, the communications of the Russian troops at those
pieces would have been cut off, and the whole army
must have capitulated. I think that this propo-
sition, which the noble lord made the mainstay of
his diplomacy, was also most impolitic ; because nothing
can be more unwise than to insult an enemy with
whom you wish to make peace—nothing more un-
wise than to humiliate a power which you recognise
as an important an l necessary element in the Et ropean
system. The right hon. baronet the member for Carlisle
vindicated the noble lord from some observations which
I had male, on the ground that the noble lord was quite
justified in all the ar;angements in considering the ho-
nour of Russia. I did not blame thenoble lord
-for making
that an element of his system of negotiations. What I
blamed him for was for making - the great and unneces-
sary admission that he would consider the honour of
Russia, and thereby giving an excuse to Russia to avoid
commencing the negotiations, and to answer every pro-
' position which was made by alleging that the honour of
Russia was concerned, of which Russia was the only
judge. The noble lord has regulated the whole of his
conduct apparently, on this question, by the treaty of
Utrecht. I believe the noble lord was the author of the
proposal of limitation.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I made it in conjunction with my
colleagues.
Mr. DISRAELI—ExactIy. Iremember that at the end of
July last, the noble lord reminded me in discussion of the
case of Dunkirk, which was to be his guide on this ques-
tion. The dismantlement of Sebastopol could not be in-
sisted upon, because the cause of the war did not warrant
the demand, and it was that proposition which took the
more qualified share of thelimitationof the fleet. But does
the noble lord forget the material difference which existed
between the case of Dunkirk and the present. By the third
article of the treaty of Utrecht, the destruction of the har-
bour of Dankirk and its fortifications was secured, but the
allies made it a condition that the King of France should
have an equivalent, and that which was fixed upon was
not a slight one. The King of France demanded Lille and
Tourney, and the great city of Lille was yielded up to him
so that this nation, prostrate in fortune and exhausted
in resources, submitted to such a condition as was now
proposed for Russia only in return for a complete equiva-
lent. (Hear, hear.) But was the condition a successful
one ? No sooner was it made than it was evaded. In the
words of an authority whom I quote the more gladly that
he is opposed to me in politics, " In order to evade the
stipulation of the treaty with England, which compelled
Lewis to fill up the port of Dunkirk, he made a canal at
Mardyke, and persisted in continuing the work in spite of
all remonstrance." At a spot, one league from Dunkirk,
with a more capacious basin, and materials for a stronger
position. he immediately commenced his second Sebasto-
pol. Who is my authority for this? I take the passage
from the "History of England since the Peace of Utrecht,"
by Lord J. Russell. (Cheers.) The'noble lord, though a
distinguished statesman, and unfortunately also an un-
successful negotiator, is still, I am sure, proud of being a
man of letters, and he will excuse me for quoting his own
words, in order
further to show the condition to which
France under Louis XIV. had been reduced at that mo-
ment. " The treaty of Utrecht," says the noble lord,
" secured a peace only wrung from Louis XIV. when the
nation was utterly exhausted by the expenses of a ruinous
war, when his recruits had been conducted to the frontier
chained like m defectors, when by that peace Louis XIV.
had not to dread the presence of the enemy in his capital, or
the cruel alternative of being obliged to dethrone his grand-
son by his own armies." So that the noble lord's his-
torical illustration offered at the Vienna conferences had
two great merits—first, it humiliated Russia by impliedly
stating that its monarch was in the forlorn and pitiable con-
dition I have just described in the nervous and picturesque
language of the noble lord ; and again, the noble lord made
a suggestion of conditions for the treaty, which perfidious
Russia, as the noble lord deems her, might learn from his
i own pages instantly and successfully to evade. (Hear.)
The noble lord and his colleagues are apt to consider the
question of preponderance as if it were something new in
I °lilies —setae phenomenon recently introduces, the solu-
tion of which could hardly be counted upon from our want
of experience in matters of this kind. But, after all, the
history of modern Europe is the history of attempts to
check and control the preponderance of a strong State over
some contiguous weak one. We have heard most slanting
harangues respecting the designs of Russia from the law
•fficsrs of the Crown t-enight. Ido not suppose Russia is
more free from ambitions designs than other great coon-
tries; lent have we not heard of the designs of France
nron the low countries, prosecuted for more than a cen-
tury by individuals of as great genius 'and energy as nay
Russian sovereigns, by Cardinal Richelieu, Lous XIV.,
and Napoleon? Yet those designs were baffled, and at
no period of her history had the appro-ariation of Belgium
been lona a foatnre of French policy than at the present
moment. Belgium is a neutral Mate, and was so created
1 under the sanction and protection of united Europe ; bat
- Ido net find that the noble lord and his colleagues have
at any time started the idea that the neutrality of the
• Principalities should be established. The neutrality of
Switzerland else wins established by the Conference of
Vienne in 1.81 r. What I complain of in the negotiations
of her Majesty's Government is, that I see no evidence
of a reenrronce to those methods by which statesmen
or:great ability and unonestioned reputation have at-
tempted to solve such difficulties as once-fluter tis on the
neeeent question. What would he the effect on Turkey if
the Principalities were declared a neutral state, like Bel-
7inm and Switzerland ? It would reduce her most ex-
poled frontier, that of the Danube, which is her worst
point of danger. Suppose Russia tried to pass that liver, if
she secceeded in doing so, she must plunge into the fell and
ry,stiferons swamps of the Dobrutschs. On her left she
wlrd.l have S ,huml t, Varna, and the grout fortress of Si-
liitrie, altogether presenting obstacles of such a gigantic
character, as would require an age for her to surmount. I
do not say yon could in Asia favour diplomacy so efficiently
as on the Danube; but if you. have not natural harriers the
nohle lord will not pretend that there are not means of
making artificial barriers. There are means, and those not
offensive or humiliating to Russia, whilh might have placed
Turkey-in a position which for a longtime would have secured
the peace of Europe, and rendered her an efficient member
of the European Confederation. There is another most im-
portant poin', which the house ought never to allow for a
moment to escape consideration, and that is the condition
of the eastern coast of the Black 533. At this moment
every fort on the Black Sea below Anapa, wish the excep-
tion of two in the possession of the Turks, is destroyed.
When peace is concluded, if yon restore that coast to Rus-
sio, you have a right to stipnlate that these forts shall not
he again raised. That is not a stipulation which would
lin•niliate the feelings or injure the honour of any power,
however great, but it would consolidate the power of Tur-
key and secure the possession of Constantinople to the Otto-
man empire. It is of the greatest consequence that when
these crude schemes of the Government are placed before us
—when they toll us neace could not be obtained, according
to their own principles, because of the inefficient and useless
methods that were employed at the conference—it is our
duty to denounce a polihy so inefficient, and to awaken the
country to the great means by which the great question of
modern politics can in my opinion be alone solved. The
right hon. gentleman the member for Carlisle has asked
whet shall he done when the Turkish empire shall dis-
solve. which, he said, is inevitable? I cannot agree with
the right hon. gentleman in that. I believe there are the
elsments in Turkey, if it were fairly treated—which it never
has been, and especially within the last two years—of se-
curing what is to us of vital interest, securing Constenti-
nople from being an appendageof anygreat military power.
Bnt if you carry on the war for that end, you must do so
with a more de.finite object, and by means more matured.
We can only judge of your policy, your resources, and your
ability to deal with those great difficulties from the records
which you have placed on the table of the resources and con-
duct of your Government ; records more barren, and more
calculated to impress me with the melancholy convictionof
the incompetency of the statesmen dealing with the subject
before rs, never yet met my eye or engaged my study.
The noble lord may feel, though he may defy the words of
those sitting opposite to him in this house—though he may
be proud of the majorities collected, God knows how, end
voting, God knows why—(a laugh)—that he and his
colleagues are pursuing a coarse without sufficient know-
ledge, without ideas sufficiently clear, without a resolution
sufficiently firm ; but if there is any wavering in their
counsels—if there is any hesitation—if at this moment
when they meet they have not a definite idea of the object
for which they are struggling, and the means by which
they are to accomplish the avowed object—namely, the
preservation of Constantinople to the Ottoman Porte—we
may rest assured that the utmost confusion and consterna-
tion will fall upon the Cabinet of which he is a member,
that no Parliamentary power can sustain a Ministry deal.
in g w; i
at hn
d if great tothey
ey
are
conducting
foreignthey a ren
affairsot as
tcompe-
tentthey
h
v__snl too3iceanktl
_onn7giwycioorinfgdtfhnreoctmperdhe in this country our home affairs
hand to mouth, as w
ell
forming a s the p
expedientsr e sen G t
vernment—living -
for the moment, with no matured system, no determined
country is a f
inexhaustible
f gloom
s to
o '
support
fpuutruproeseof no
itli
tootetrrheiMmetfohre
my imagination to contemplate.
ironical
(Cheers, and an
Lord PALMERSTON—The right hon. gentleman has ad,
verted to the motion which ho made before the late brief re.
cess, and stated, in the first place, that it was far fl.om bens-
his intention to imply that if carried he wished the Govern-
ment to abandon their position ; and he mentioned a similar
case of Lord Londonderry, in which that nobleman did not ,
resign. If we are to judge of the accuracy of the right hen.
gentleman's information on these great subjects by the cor.
rectness of his memory on the point I have mentioned, I am
not much disposed to adopt his conclusions, for if the right
hon. gentleman will refresh his memory by reference to the re-
cords of the transactions to which he has alluded, he will find
that the house upon that question came to no division, and
Lord Londonderry retained office out of deference to the feeling
of the country. But I must own that the observations of the
right hon. gentlemen, and the criticism which has fallen front
him,contrastsome-whatstrangelywith the language he held before
the late recess. What was the ground on which he proposed the
resolution on which the house came to a decision ? He said,
" I call upon the house to interpose, because I am convinced
that if the Government is allowed to go to this proposed ten
days' recess without cheek, they will during that time con-
clude a disgraceful and ignominious peace." (Hear.) With
the papers before him he made that charge upon the Govern-
ment. What has be told us to-night ? He has told us that the
Government has insisted upon terms too hard to be imposed
upon Russia. (Hear, hear.) The whole of his speech has
amounted to this, that we were demanding some limitation
of her fleet which in honour she could not agree to. (Hear.)
With regard to the amendments which we are called upon to
discuss, I confess that, though the right hon. gentleman has
repudiated ray agreement with him, and seems to be uneasy
when we happened to concur in opinion, I, though perhaps'
not, for 'madly the purse reams, NAG= With hiiu in the re.

solution to which he has come. I stated some time ago that I
had no objection to it on the first blush of the thing, but that
I had a great objection to the last part of the amenditrent,
and for the reasons which the right hon. gentleman himself
has given. Ho says he has re-considered his reasons, and
thought nowr upon a full consideration, that there was no in- 1
vasion of the prerogative of the Crown in expressing an
opinion as to the terms on which peace was made or war was
continued. I will not put it upon that abstract principle,
but I say that' it is highly inexpedient for this house to take
into its hands negotiations with foreign powers, to state on
the one hand what are to be the terms of peaee, or, on the
other, what proposals ought to be rejected. Any expression
of feeling on the part of this house cannot fail to be embarrass-
ing to those who are conducting the negotiations, and inju-
rious to the interests of the country. If that remark is ap-
plicable to a war in which we are singly engaged, it is infi-
nitely mere dangerous when we are engaged in concert with
allies, with whom, step by step, and at every step, we must
consult upon terms to be accepted or refused—(cheers)--
with 'whom we must agree in every step taken in the ne-
gotiation. It is evident, therefore, that for this house
to lay down an opinion as to. the adoption or rejection of
terms of peace and war is much to be deprecated, is highly
injurious and embarrassing. If the right hon. gentleman does
not take offence at my agreeing with him—(laughter)—l
think there is so much force in the argument that the two
amendments are so linked together that any objection that
applies to the last applies equally to the first. (Hear.) So
far, therefore, from not accepting that cautious bridge which
the right hon. gentleman says has been constructed by my
right hon. friend, so far from expressing an opinion averse
to his amendment, I am prepared to vote for it, and the
best thing I think the house could do is to take that
amendment with part of the amendment of the hon. gentle-
man, and allow that to be the distinct question before it.
(Heir, hear.) I hope the hon. and learned member will
allow his- amendment to be cleared away—(laughter)—so
that the house may come to a vote on the amendment of my
right honourable friend. With regard to the course of the
debat4, one circumstance impressed itself very much on my
mind. We have been debating the most important matters,
involving interests of the deepest nature, and the debate has
in general been conducted with calmness and temper, and
that deep consideration so becoming the gravity of the sub-
ject. The only exception to that rule has been evinced by
the advocates of peace. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Those
gentlemen had peace he their hearts, but they had war in
their mouths. (Cheers.) They showed so much heat, and
passion, and violence—their speeches were delivered in a
manner that showed how angry passions were struggling for
mastery within them—(cheers)—and to judge from those
speeches—the manner, the substance, and the language of
them—any one would say they were much fitter to be.a
party for war at all hazards than a party for peace at any
price. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) But their arguments
were not such as are likely to have much influence in
the debate. They have been complimented for their
courage in standing forward as the champions of their par-
ticular opinions. Bat I even doubt if they deserved
that compliment, for the danger of their opinions has not
been much increased by the speeches in which they delivered
them. The hon. member for the West Riding says that the
periodical press goaded public opinion into a temper for this
war. That was an assertion quite at variance with the histo-
rical fact. (Hear, hear.) So far from the periodical press
goading the public feeling into an artificial excitement, the
people of this country two years ago exhibited their delibe-
rate opinion and conviction ; they wanted no stimulant or
excitement; they actedjrom their own instinct and feelings
—those manly feelings which, in spite of the peace party, I
hope will animate the people of England. (Hear.) But it is
somewhat extraordinary that those gentlemen who had risen
to eminence on the strength of public opinion upon a question
on which public opinion went with them, should now re-
proach and taunt the members of this house with being un-
true organs of.public opinion. (Hear, hear.) After ving
built their own fame on being the organs of public opinion
and the. national will, it is strange that they should now
endeavour to make it a reproach to this house and to the
government that they were following the national feeling on
this great question. (Hear, hear.) At this late hour I will
not follow them in their many fallacies. (Hear, hear.) Their
speeches abounded in fallacies. (Hear.) The hon, member
for the West Riding, I believe, said that we proposed to limit
the force of Russia in the Black Sea to 4 sail of the line and
.4 frigates, but that Russia, by certain contrivances; could
make her fleet in the Black Sea greater than it was before.
Well, if that be so, why did not Russia accept our proposal ?
(Hear.) The hon. gentleman said that Russia, did not accept
it, because it would have been inconsistent with her honour.
It is, therefore, for her honour and glory that Russia is main-
taining this war, but the hon. gentleman Ills told us over and
over again that honour and glory are not things for which a
nation should fight—that we should fight only for other lower
considerations which I will not further advert to. (Laugh
ter.) The bon. gentleman, however, said that he would fight
—(laughter;—hut that if the enemy were to come to Ports-
mouth—not to theelsle of Wight—(laughter)—but to Ports-
mouth, he would—go into an hospital. (Loud laughter.)
But many persons in this country—let not the hon. gentlemen
deceive themselves upon it—think that that party ought to
go into hospital indeed, but an hospital of a very different
kind—an hospital which I shall not mention, but which every-
body understands. (Laughter.) Those gentlemen who are so
anxious to make peace on their own terms say what madness
it is to go to war with a nation numbering 60 millions of in-
habitants. But do they know that the population of England
and Fiance also numbers about 60 millions, and that they have
the further advantage of concentration, and all the arts and
appliances which civilisation and science can give in addition
to the national feelings which belong to nations in the condi •
tion of England and France, but which never can be asserted
by the unhappy serfs of the sovereign with whom they are
contending The hon. member for Manchester, in a speech of
nudounted talent, has been pleased to find fault with me for
treating, as he says, grave subjects with unbecoming levity.
(Hear.) lam not conscious of deserving that reproach ; but
Oe house will not accuse him on that head, for certainly his
kes had not much levity in them. (Laughter.) I heard
with regret the change of opinion which had taken place in
the minds of the right hon. gentlemen who had lately left the
Government, because, as well and properly acknowledged by
them, they were not only parties to the war, and t ) the terms
which should in general be proposed as the terms of peace,
but they were distinctly parties to the insisting upon that
particular condition of the limitation of the naval forces of
Russia in the Black Sea. (Hear, hear.) There was ode con-
dition which they stipulated should be made, but it is not
the limitation of the naval forces of Russia in the Black Sea.
(" Hear" from Sir J. Graham.) To that condition, therefore,
• they must be supposed to have assented. But I will not al-
lude further to that sehject. I think it is hardly necessary at
this time of day, and at this period of the debate, to urge the
reason why it is right, and necessary, and just, that England
and France should draw the sword in defence of Turkey. It is
not necessary for me to follow in detail all the extensions of
territory which has marked the advance of Russia for a long
time. It would bo easy for me to follow her from the East-
era shores of Asia through Central Asia, through the Caspian
Sra, through Armenia, Pa!aud, and the Danube, and then
through the extreme confines of Norway and the Arctic Sea
—it would be easy for me to show that in her treaties she
never took any nataral boundary as the limit of her territory,
but some artificial separation which would give her the pre-
tence or the occasion for fhrther aggression. When such has
been the policy pursued by Russia, and when we find the pre-
sent Emperor of Russia declaring that his mission was to
carry into effect the system pursued by Peter and Catherine,
and Alexander and Nicholas, we felt that the time was come
for defending the independence of Tarkey and of Europe from
such aggression. (Hear.) War, therefore, was declared, and
Austria having expressed her desire to bring that war to a
termination by amicable means the treaty of December was
concluded, the purport of which wasethat if peace was not
secured by a certain time on the basis of the four points,
Austria would—not take the fie'd—but enter into concert
with England and France for devising means to carry out the
object of the allies, that object being to secure the indepen-
dence of Turkey. icar.) England and France would there-
fore have been blameable if they had not entered into these
negotiations ; but had the operations of the war iu the mean-
time been suspended? On the contrary, they had been car-
ried on with the utmost vigour during the conferences.
(Hear.) The right bon. gentleman had made several sugges-
tions, some of which were no doubt well deserving of consi-
deration. He wished, for instance, to have the Principalities
declared to be neutral. He (the noble lord) was not disposed,
however, to attach any great practical importance to that pro-
position. In the first place, when a quarrel had arisen, and
when it became desirable for the belligerent powers to possess
the neutral territory, that neutrality had never been very re-
l'gionsly respected. Besides, were the principalities, if de-
clared neutral, to be continued a portion of the Ottoman em-
pire ? If they were not, then they would soon share the fate of
Poland ; if they were not, then the moment hostilities broke
out, Russiawould cease to respect their neutrality, for war die,
solved all treaties. But the interests of the Principalities had
not been neglected. It had been proposed to put them under
the protection of the Five Powers, and to establish a system
of internal defence. A force would have been established
which, if not at once sufficient to resist a Russian invasion,
would have supplied the foundation of a national defence.
(Hear.) He (the noble lord) entirely differed from the right
hon. gentleman in thinking that the Black Sea was the side
on which Turkey was the least vulnerable. (Cheers.) On
the contrary, he believed that it was on that side that
Russia could strike her most quickly, and to the heart.
(Hear, hear.) They all knew that the Turkish army at the
commencement of the present war had kept the Russian
forces on the Danube at bay for twelve months ; and on
a previous occasion, when the invasion was made by a
large army and under more favourable circumstances, it had
taken the Russians two years to get to Adrianople. On the
Asiatic side it was true that Russia had prepared a great for-
tress at a place called Gnmri, a place which jutted into the
Turkish territory, and which was of no vahie except for pur-
poses of aggression. No doubt that by means of that fortress,
in connection with Tiflis, she would be able to invade Turkey
on the Asiatic side. But the march to Broussa was long, and
the Russian force would have to encounter the Asiatic Turks,
who were the most warlike of the Ottoman race. No doubt
that there might be danger on this side, which ought
to be provided against, but still the operation contem-
plated was ono that would require time. But how stood
the case with reference to the Black Sea ? Why Constan=
tinople was within forty-eight hours from Sebastopol. The
right lion. gentletnan said that no great force could be
despatched against that city, but an army might be col-
lected at Sebastopol, and might in a *cry short time be sent
thither. The right hon. gentleman proposed to fortify the
Bosphorile, but there were places not far north of the city
where a large force might easily be put eh Apra. Why what
owoeodmonene ourselves
hSoinrseeeethine Itehteoickriamyewa had landed
hloa3d,
course of ten days we had, genie
to i.tpatoria. (HOZ.) Thei'e had boon ttto Propoeitione
with respect t? the se.fetee of Constantinople—the open straits
and the clorete straits. Now, the former of these had been
d 40,000
been
Crimea; .and
Vatig
entirely given up by every hon. gentlerean who had addteseed
the house, with the exception of hon. member for the
West Riding. AM za l'atter of fact, the straits were closed,
and had itlii-eys been closed by the inherent right of Sove-
reignty which every state possessed over its ownwatars. And
this was no new thing. It wes an eneibnt law of the Turkish
empire that the straite shmild be closed; though we were the
first in 1809 wib entered into a treaty to respect it. Now,
supposing the straits were open tho Russien.fleet of 18 or 20
ships of the line might any tin; aPPetir off the Seraglio ; and
there could be no doubt that whatever demands might be
made that were supported by a demonstration of that
kind, they would be granted before night. But ,it Was
said that the Turks might send for the English and French
nh
te
no
on
pl only e methodfriogsinhh ships
theass toh be e therefores el danger
gl t
auboanylf
flees. But where would they find them ? (Hear.) The
attempt might be made at a time when—as happened once
if— hweedhidadnootnlyexatwgogesrhaiteps
theof trihnemlhineer_inoathneghMteerd)_itewrrhaeinteawne,
Baharadeonthlyiniognwe
would
Sdpoitchceuard and that it was intended to send to
which they Why,could
secure
beforere canndsevtate could equip a fleet the whole
thing would be over. If the Straits were closed, precisely the
sudden attack would bo to limit the Russia* fleet in the Black
Sea. (Cheers,) It should be remembered that England and
France would have a right to' keep as many ships in the
Ein
might
xegsfheoi nti eceeerha,mosßussiaindependently
tiog hhta;
vha neavdientbohtfehee
eanr rnuaßyerokeeeipsphi:Bosphorus
numberflidme
bes t ofm
Mar-
morn. (Hear.) He (the noble lord) thoyuagßhduts,:thialieewittfahotooeuf,t3itlhoaasrattb -
y ;unadnedr tthhaet aßtust the
n same
proposition, time they
if wouldTu Turkey
e havey
s hsouu
iffia-
ciently provided for the safety of Constantinople. But it was
soafiddiglithiatt

COURSE OF EXCH.

Amsterdam 11 18
Ditto, three months 11 19%
Bottordani ..u...••••• li 19%
Antwerp 25 37
Brussels .... • • ........ 23 X/
il9.mbargh • • •• • • 13 71A
ABMs • • ••..•• • • • •
Farb.. • • • . .. • • .... 25 15
Ditto, three months .. 23 05
Marseilles ............. 25 37%
BOurdeatut ,•••• .. • • ....
Frerikcatt-on Maine 118%
Belitn •• •• .• •• ••I• Ja
Vientla.• •„: •....• 12 2#
Trieste. • •••••• •• •• •. 12 40
Petiergbitrg • • • • 85%
Madrid .........., ei 49
C,adtz •• •••• •••• •:., SO
Bum:dna
ei .• .• •• Of ',WC.

.NGE.-YESTERDA:

Gibraltar ......•• •• •• •
Leghorn •• •• •• ••
Genoa ••••••1
ililan •• •• •••• •• •• ••••
Venlea•••• •• •••• •• ••••
Naples
Palermo ..... •
Messina ... •
Lisbon ..
Oporto . •• ed •• 0,6 •••• ••
Rio Janeiro ..... . ••
Buenos Ayres.... •
New York, 60 days' sigh'
Philadelphia

131%
131 X
53
53%

MORS OF BULLION, PER OZ.
Foreign Gold in Bars £3 17 9
Portugal Gold Coin .. 0 0 0
Mexican Dollars .... 0, 0 0
New Dollars 0 0 0
Silver in bard . .. 0 5 1%

The Italian actress, Mme. Ristori (Vrho, it appears,
speaks French like a pative), has received an diet of an
engagement at the Theatre Frangais, with a salary of
80'000f; a:year' and two months' vacation. The lady;
it 18 said, requires four taontbs vacation, and that, at
present, is the sole obstacle to a contract. Rachel must
look to her laurels.

VinvgaTissmnirr.l Among the numerous extraordinary
durCg -ciithOut Medicine, effected by Du Barry's delicious
health-restoring Reileritel Arabt-ea- Food, the following are
not the least remarkable :—Cure Tiridgebouse, Frim-
ley, 3d April, 1854.—Thirty-three years' diseased hinge/ spit-
Of bleed, liver derangement, deafness, singing in the ciarSi
constipation detiliiY, shmtness of breath, and cough, have
been removed by your Revaleuta Arabica. My lungs, liver,
stomach, head and ears-are all right, my hearing perfect, and
lily recovery, i 5 it marvel to all my acquaintances.—Jmos
ROBERTS, Wood Merchant. —From the Venerable Arch-
deacon of Ross.—No. 32,836. Three years' excessive
nervousness with pains in my neck and left arm, and
general debility, which rendered my life very miserable,
has been radically removed by Du Barry's health-restoring
Food.—ALEXANDER STUART, Archdeacon of Ross,. Skibereen.
In canisters, lib. 2s. 9d.; 21b. 4s. 6d.; 51b. 11s. ; 121 b. 225:
The 121 b., carriage free, on receipt of Post-office order. Barry
Du Barry & Co., 77, Regent-street, London ; also at 182,
Piccadilly; 60, Gracecharch-street ; 330, and 451, Strand;
4, Cheapside ; 60-and 68, Cornhill ; 49, Bishopsgate-street;
55, Charing-cross; 54, Upper Baker-street ; 63 and 150,
Oxford-street ; 89, High-street, Camden-town ; 18, Tall-
man ; 7, ; 132, New Bond-street ; 24, Mei-
comb-street ; 13, King William-street, City 30, Conduit-
street; 21; Cockspur-street; 96, Farringdon-street ; 67, St.
Pails GliurchYord; 6, Edward-ctroot, Portman-00w'

Alderman Wire—l do not say that I will not hear
the witness, I say distinctly that I will not hear you un-
less you appear in some character distincarom that of an
advocate of a witness. If the witness is present, let him
be put into the box. '
Mr. Steele—A case was heard only yesterday at
Guildhall in which the advocate was allowed to appear
fora witness.

Alderman Wire—l do not know that that advocate
had any right to appear there at all.
Mr. Lewis—All this is done for the purpose of pre-
judicing the case against the prisoner,
Mr. Steele—No, it is not ; you said the other day
there was no proof of any robbery having been corn
mitted.

Alderman Wire—l cannot take any other course, un-
less I say to the gentleman, there is the door.
Mr. Steele—Then I will not Fay another word. Mr.
Chaplin is here to give evidence if you wish to hear him.
His evidence ought to follow that of other persons in
court, but it is idle to call him without also examining
these persons to show the delivery. to him of certain
packages.
Mr. Lewis—This is one of theinconveniences resulting
from the fact of there being two competing bodies pre-
s-nt to prove their blamelessness. The South-Eastern
Railway Company on the one side, and Messrs. Chaplin
on the other.

Mr. Steele—No, that is not so.
Mr. John Chaplin, of the Spread Eagle, Gracechurch-
street, carrier, then entered the witness-box, and having
been sworn, said—When I was here the other day I
hear 1 Mr. Lewis, the prisoner's solicitor, say that no
robl e-y of gold bad been represented. I attend to prove
that a robbery has been committed.
Mr. Goodman (the chief clerk).—Be good enough to
consider that vou attend not as an advocate, but as a
witness. Simply state what you know. Never mind
what the solicitor for the prisoner stated. If you have
lost anything, or if you have had anything pass through
your hands, and know anything about it, state the par.
ti culars. _ _

Witness— In one case a box, said to contain gold
coin, was brought to my office in Gracechurch-street, by
a clerk or servant of Mr. Speilman, money-changer, of
Lombard-street. The box was delivered into my hands
on the 15th ult.

Mr. Goodman—What did you do with that particular
box ?

Witnesg*--I placed it on the counter before me, until
Iha I made out the waybill which was going to the
railway. I then took the box with ms in a cab to the
South-Eastern Railway, at the London-bridge, and de-
livered it to the station:master, Mr. Weatherell. The
address upon it I copied in a book, which I.have not
with .me. It was "V. Spellman, Paris." I think it
was-26, Rue Rivoli. The packet was weighed, and I
left it, and took a receipt for it. It was booked, and
the value declared at 7001. That was not the only packet
I took at that time. I also received a box, which I
believed to contain gold, from Messrs. Samuel, Thomas
and Co., and which was booked as a parcel of value.
Its value was declared at upwards of 6,0001. I also re-
c 'ived on the same day, from Messrs. Bult, a parcel
which was declared to consist of bar gold. I delivered
all three parcels together. They Is ere weighed in my
presence, and I took receipts for them. They were ad-
dressed to different persons. That from Messrs. Samuel,
Thomas and Co., I belies,. was marked " P. D.," and
had no further address on it, but I had documents stat-
ing its intended destination, which I delivered with the
box at the railway station. Messrs. Bult's parcel was
marked " L," and had a number on it, but I do not re-
collect what it wap.

—Cross.examined by Mr. Lewis—l have been applied to
for the value of the parcels in two of the cases, namely,
Messrs. Thomas and Mr. Spellman, but no actions hate
been brought against me. I have attended the two
former examinations at this court, and was able to give
evidence of the same facts on these occasions.

Mr. Lewis—Then why did you not do so ? At whose
instigation are you doing it to-day?
Witness—l do so because, when I was here the other
day I heard you say that no robbery had been commit
ted, and I thought I could prove that the gold had been
stolen.

Mr. T. Rance, assistant to Messrs. Samuel, Thomas,
an'l Co., bullion-dealers, of Royal Exchange-buildings,
said—On the 15th ult. 'I packed a box of gold in bars,
marked "P. D. 184." I then delivered it to Messrs.
Chaplin's men, who took it from our office.
Cross-examined by Lewis—l have not examined
the gold produced. That which I packed was nearly
pure gold—it was better than standard. Its gross weight
was 2,125& ounces. (The witness he're examined the bar
gold produced by the. officer.) This is not like our gold,
and is inferior to it. (The granulated gold was then
shown to the witness.) I cannot at all tell what this is;
it is not like our gold. Ours was in six bars, and was
not like this.
Haydon, the officer, havinc, stated that he was not
prepared with any further evidence at present,
Mr: Lewis submitted that no case of unlawful posses-
sion of the gold had been made out' against his client,
who had purchased it at the docks of a man who had
recently come from Australia, as he stated to the officer
at the time of his apprehension. He (Mr. Lewis) also
submitted that in the event of the Bench thinking that
the ends of justice would not be satisfied without a
farther remand, it was a case of such slight suspicion,
that his client's own personal recognisance only ought
to be accepted as bail for his appearance on a future
occasion.
Alderman Wire, after consulting with Sir R., W. Car-
den and Mr. Goodman, said the prisoner must be fur-
ther remanded, but he would take bail. The prisoner
must enter into his own recognisance in the sum of 1,0001.
and find two sureties for• 5001. each.

FATAL ACCIDENT AT FLETCHER'S SHIP-YARD, LIME -
HoDsE.—On Thursday, John Seymour, aged 56 year, in
the service of Messrs. Fletcher, ship-builders, Limehouse,
was engaged between decks of a large vessel in course of
construction, when he by some means lost his equili-
brium, and fell a depth of fifteen feet, whereby he sus-
tained a fracture of the base of the skull and other injuries,
which caused death. The body awaits an inquest.
The Court of Assizes of the Herault has just been oc-
cupied three days in trying a woman named Gras, and
a man named Arnaud, for poisoning the husband of the
woman. On the 11th January the man Gras took to
his bed, suffering from violent vomitings and pains,
which increased, and on the 15th he died. Foul play
being suspected, the body was examined, and a quantity
of arsenic was found in it. It was then ascertained that
both the woman and Arnaud (with whom she was sus-
pected of intriguing) bad frequently purchased arsenic,
and that they had both been-seen to mix some substance
with the food prepared fbr the victim. The jury declared
both the prisoners guilty, but with extenuating circum-
stances, and the Court sentenced them to hard labour
for life. The woman, 011 hearing the sentence, uttered
loud cries, but the man was perfectly unmoved.
[AJWERTISEMENT.] —MN WAR IN TliS EAST. —Powsiu9
PATENT RECONNOITRING GLASIES.— Messrs. and B. Solo-
mons, opticians, 39, Albemarle-street, Piccadilly. Observe
opposite the York Betel. • By her Majesty's Royal
Letters Patent for valuable and extraordinary improvements
in the most powerful and brilliant Telescopes, Camp, Race-
'course, Opera, and Perspective (lasses, to know the distances
of objects viewed through them—of great importance to the
army, navy, and others. These telescopes possess such extra-
ordinary powers that some 3i inches, with an extra eye-
piece, will show distinctly Jupiter's moons, Saturn's ring,
' and the double stars; with the same telescope can be
seen.k person's countenance three miles and a half distant,
and an object from 16 to 20 Miles. They are of larger and all
sizes, with increasing p.,wers accordingly ; while their vary.
ins rom 4 to 6 inches enable us to discover more than the
above, and the Georgian, with his 6 satellites, &e.—The Royal
Eabibition, 1651.—aluable, newly-invented, very small,
a person cast be seen and known Ludes , they answer
powerful waistcoat-pocket glass,the size odfisat watln. ut, by which
arachthmougs,,etes,
andeei - a t the1 n
go,
.pye
countryevery
scenery, purpose on the race-course,
e clearly seen at 8 to 10 miles
and tourists. Opera,
d • stalk' •
They are invaluablaenfdorshstoatirng,
sportsmett, gentlemen, gamekeepers,
s t le Lenses of
race-course, camp, and PersPentive glasses, with wonderful
power.—Newlythe gr.eat-
edThe
vision
advantage. derived
est transparent power.
this invention is, that visiou becoming impaired is
preserved and strengthened, and very aged persona are
enabled to employ their sight at the most minute occu-
pation—can see with these lenses of a mach less magnify-
ing power—and they do not require the frequent changes
to the dangerous effects of further powerful assistance. Deaf-
ness—New Discovery.—The Organic Vibrator, an extraordi-
nary powerful, small, newly-invented instrument for deafness,
entirely different from all others, to aurpass anytleng of the
kind that has been, or probably ever can be, poduced.
Being of the same colour as the skin, is not perceptible ; it
'enables (leaf persons to hear distinctly at church old at
public assemblies ; the unpleasant sensation of singing u2ises
iu the ears is entirely removed ; and it affords all the as't;st-
auce that possibly could be desired. 39, Albemarle-stree,
Piccadilly. Observe —opposite the York lietel.

COUNT !?,Y ARKETS

e---

LIVERPOOL-- JUNE 8.
The demand for the leading articles of the trade slack,
and Tuesday's prices scarcely maintained. Indian corn
being scarce, brought an advance over the prices of ,t,y,
day se'nnight of le 6d per qr. on white, and la on Yeii°
and mixed.

The very favourableW ---
AlEFwleEatLhDet--dJauriic:g Bt.he
week
.40 it,
this day
effect on the wheat trade to-day, and although there
anxiety to press sales, yet millers have been enabled to OP:
ply their immediate wants on rather lower terms than of•
•
Beans t se'onight. -Barley, the turn in favour of e bur;
•8-eadY• In oats and shelling no material thensao •

toClOOlts CORN.—In
EXETER-40XE 6.
laolurtinrag. abrakreletyv: h4esaotdmtoay4sbe6dqu;ogritedudfi
Od to Os Ch.. Oats, 3s Oil to 3s 9d. Beans, 0
Od. Peas, 00s Od to 00s Od. I-1 Od t° 16°
FLOUR. —Fine, 56s Od to 58:3 Od ; seconds, ..) 5
ed per sack.
CATTLE.—Prime beef, 12s 6d per score . cows s aria
parclve°
10/. ON to 16/. ; butchers' calves, 5d to 5Ad per lb_., rod to
rsnosniocidoto.o3, 7:
calves —s to s each. Sheep, 6d to Bd. Latni)t. ,1;„r,
5
Od per lb. Store hogs, large ze, 00s to 003 esci.ct ,
e7ii,.
00s to 00s ; small, 00s to OOs. Bough fat, 40 p
er score.
Pork carcases from lOs Od to I.os 6d p

INVERNESS.—JvAT 5. Oa 13".
31: °ORdif..-0-Wilats,es2lls te
ley, chevalier,.3ls Od to 32sper r"
. 4 °raw."' 3°
Od ; datuo, c
1 • (10)
111 s' ' t 255 Ck" SP
EAL.—Oatmeal, per imp boll 24s Oc o ,6,
wo(hiittoe,32
oql 74s Oci to 76s . od
6s 6d tosci to 9d;
second, OOs Od to Os Od ; barlerneal,
peasemeal, 16s 6d to 20s Ocl ; bran, per ston, Os 4Ss thl g
Ist flour, per 2SOlb, 57s- Od to 60s Od ;2d ditto, .31 .)
00S Od. ; oatmeal, best, per at. of 141 b ituP°llol4 83
to Os Ocl ; ditto second, Os 0d to Os Od ; barleYl33B4 each,
to OOs Ocl ; peasemeal, is 10d to Os Oa ; Ist flour,
3s 6d credit; 2d ditto, 2s 6d cash, 2s 9d credit.

BRISTOL SUGAR—JOE 8. done ill
There has not been a large amount of bus' There
is B,u.
Taw sugars, and the narkat the shade sasicri
j'risk 61
nufacturer3r
improved demand for refiner's produce, d3-1`
'less might have been done, were it ntutytarts,i)3lipearsicarese.:ticl'h
show an unwillingness to submit to
stocks of rum are quite exhausted, and 511 PP
wanted.