The National Register.
London, England, 1816-03-04 00:00:00

THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

ter; and he viewed also with jealousy the establishment of a
aLlitary Association, tinder the li:winless WWe of a chub, which i I
an illustriuns Naval Commander (Earl of St. Vincept,) held in I
such abhorrence that he would not join it, considering it as a
measure nut British. He was willing to give the army its .
due praise and reward fur its glorious deeds; but he would
have it disbanded, in order that it might not overturn Eirgland
as well as itnimaparte. An Iton. Gentleman had said —" Was
it to be believed, that the geutirmen of Eugland, officers of the '
army, would turn against the Liberties of their Country?"—
How would such an appeal have heeit received in former times,
even if Lurd Cadoe'an or Lord Peterboroueh (the very dower •
of Whiggism), hod been proposed to coonnand a standing
army? it was the spirit of the 11111 of Rights, that not a soldier
more than was necessary should be kept up in time of pence.
The Hoa. Genntleinan had said, that our paantation hail great-
ly increased; but was that then an argumeut, that we required
the assistance amine soldieri? lie, for one, could not consent
to separate the three great questions--the Treaties—the Peace
Establishment and the Property-tax. They were all parts of
one system to destroy the liberties of the people, or, at least,
to make this country a complete military nation. This country
nos never in a situation less to dread the aggressions of her
enemies; and yet this was the period waen Itliiiisters chose to
propose a military establishment never kept up in any firmer
war. For in the seven years war, when we had defeated
France on every side, our military establishment was one halt'
less titan now. The increase of patronage in the army was
also dangerous to the Constitution, by eivieg a great increase
of power to the Crown. He hoped the House would take care
not to sulTer this large addition to the power of the Crown ;
and guard the people from any innovation on the Constitution ;
and not consider the question of money and finance trilling, in
comparison with first strippiug the people oftheirrights, and Ott n
grinding them in their property. He implored the Noble Lord
and flight Hon. Gentleman opposite not to be led away by
majorities in that House often on their side, when the reason
and talent were against them. ilut now the people were re-
solved nut to suffer any more encroachments on their rights
and property. Out of doors a cry had been raise.) ; Mid if
they did not hurry this subject throagh the House, they would
have it brought to that House in su firm, and he trusted, so
respectful language, that even the cool courege of the Noble
Lord would not he able to resist it. And if there were an
honest counsellor about the Prince, that man would tell him
this is England, and not Germany; and that if any one wished
to have whiskered hussars and Polish lancers, at an expense of
six or eight millions inure a year, it must not be done in Eng-
land,—( Hear, Aear.)
Limo PALMERSTONE said, the lion. Gent. bad dealt largely
in declamation and general attack. lie had called out the
House to refuse going into a Committee, where alone it could
be proved that it was necessary to keep up the large standing
farce which was proposed. The question now was, not one of
danger to the Constitution, but one of finance altogether—a
ipiestion whether, fur the purpose of getting rid of the income
Tax a year or two, the Crown should now be compelled to give
up our' colonies, those sources of our wealth, to withdraw our-
selves front the Continent, to confine ourselves to our own is-
land, to sacrifice our present high and commanding situation
in Europe, and to become a second-rate power. The Noble
Lord observed, that the charge of the Army was 8,900,0001.;
of this 2,000,0001. was expended in pensions, &e. and could
scarcely be said to be considered as belonging to the army. A
further reduction of 1,00U,0001. might be looked to in the course
of the present year. This would reduce the estimate to some-
thing less than 6,000,0001.; and, when it was considered that
the pay of the soldier was nearly double since 1192, he thought
Gentlemen could not contend that the proposed establishment
very far exceeded former peace establishments.
'1 he thriller consideration ot' the subject was then adjourned
till the next day.—Aikjunrued at half-past one.

TLESDA V, WES, 27.

. _
Petitions were presented from tiiueardine, Whitechapf..l,
Oxfordshire, Christchurch (Mhtillesex), Wautage, Tavistock,
nilton, York, Alcithyr-Tydvil, Royston and its vicinity, and
several ollizr places, against the Tax on Property.

. _
Pi:OM:ATV TAX.
Mr. Ma nnocxs presented a petition fsom Boston, in Liu.
colushire, complaining of the difficulties under which they
labour on account of the Property-tax, and praying its repeat.
The Hon. Member stated the general distress of the Petitioners,
and asked the following questions of the Bight lion. Gentle-
man a laudlord receives no rent, is he liable to the Tax?
If a tenant makes no profits' is lie also liable ? uud, is the Tax
to last tor one or two years, or more ?—No answer was given.
JIr,METHULN observed, that there did not appear any dis-
position ou the part of Ministers to modify the Tax; which
was, iu fact, nut a tax upon income, but one upon uo income at
all. He should be glad to know, as the country was so greatly
distressed, where the labourer was to find work, or the pauper
bread? He should vote against the Tax, because he considered
it a tax peculiarly pressiug upuu that description of persons
already overburthened.
Mt. Bnounnast lamented that no answer was given by Mi-
nisters to tile questions of his liuu. Fr hold ; they were, 413 had
been well observed on a former night, " stricken with dumb-
ness." however, as that was really their infirmity, and they
could not, or would not answer, he begged to suggest to them
not to hurry the question through the House. He warned them
agaiust neglecting the voice; of the nation, which he believed
they dared not neglect. He would use all the forms which the
law authorised, to preveut those Hight Hon. Gentlemen from
stemming Lind stiffing the voice of the people; and therefore he
gave their notice, that upois all uceasions vvheit the tax Caine
tOlVikiFti he Should endeavour to convince the House that the
people ought to be lieurd.—(Hrar, hear.)
Mr. VassiTTAKT expressed his 'surprise at the declaration
of the Hum Gentleman, of thrhwiiig impediments iii the a dy of
the business of the House; be did not tear the threat of the
Hon. Geut. nor would he be deterred from pursuing his duty.
In respect to the accusation of not answering the questions put
-to bins, he only waited till the Petition was breugut up in the
regular way to give the answer. As to the first—whether any
modifications would be made, be wished to observe, that the
modifications could only take place in the Gonunittee upon the
Bill, where uuy suggestions would receive the deliberate in-
vestigation of the whole House; he should nut then be found '
wanting in his duty, iu attending to any modifications which
might SCC:II necessary. As to the inteipos.tion of delay, he
w :shed to give all possible time for consider:cant ; Ind what
time would there be, as the Bill most pass before April, of con-
sidering fully the question, if it a as to be deterred tilt the mid-
dl of March. But these were questions proper for the Com-
mittee. He had intruded to propose that the tax should con-
tinue for two years, mid not beyond; it being his hope and
wish that its duration should thou terminate. Gentlemen had
said, that the country was endangered by the tax—that lie must
deity ; the tax had not placed the country in danger, but the
misrepretentatitins of its tendency which had gone forth, foal
especially that gross one, namely, that the faith of Parliament
bad been pledged for its ceasing with the war.—(!hear, tear.)

The feet was not so ; the faith of Parliament had never bee*
to pledged, and the Bill was expressly framed with that vie*
fur the words " no longer;' inserted in the Acts of 1803 and
were onlittud in the Bill of last Session.—( Loral cries of
!bar, hair.)
Mr. 31truttex declared that he objected to the tax on ac-
count of its inquisitorial tendency.
Sir S. Rom (Lev could not listed to the reason assigned by
the Right Han. Gentleman for not giving more time to consider
the tax, because it expired on the 11th of April, without ex-
pressing his vease of the indecency of calling the Parliament
together at so late a period ; which could have been for no
other reason than to prevent the representative.; from stating
to their constitimate their (minium of the tax. Ministers knew
the distresses of the country at the end of the last session; and
were they not bound in candour to have told the country that
the tax was to be a permanent one, but they had deceived the
country. The people had submitted, as a war tax, to destroy
the power of Buonapnrte. The war concluded with tae '.(estrum
tion of that power ; and now it comes out (and the troth could.
not be too much impressed on the House and the public) that
the tax was voted to keep up a large military establishment to
support Louis XVIII. anal his family on the throne of France,
and not fur British objects. Let it be recollected, tint ao large
a standing army as that now proposed could not be supported
without depriving seine persons of the comforts, but many
more of the very necessaries of life. The object was, to sup-
port a monarch who had violated the liberty of the Press, and
of elections in Vrance, and connived at the persecutions of the
Protestants.—'flue Hun. and Learned Gentleman in illustration
of the latter assertion, stated, that in the department of the
Gard, all the vilest crimes, even murder, had not been punished
by the Government—aoo persons haul been muttered in that
departmcat, 210 houses burnt, of which 150 houses were at
falsities; Su women of the highest reepectability had been
scourged and hunted in the public streets, eight of whom had
died under the torture.—(//egr,heae.)—Nuitwithetanding all
this, had one criminal suffered? The Govermnent areeered
to disregard the c.oidurt of the criminal, and to support covert-
ly a kind of religious oppression. Wes it so in }:naland during
the riots of 1;a0, when the nob destroyed the property of the
Catholics? On the contrary, did ,not the British Government
prosecute to death the delinquent% and institute proceedings
against the Lord Mayor of London for his cowardice in not
repressing the outrageous conduct of the mob ? The Gavern-
nieut of France were supine with respect to the Prefect of
Nismee, who still remained at the head of the Government. It
was true, that a Proclamation had been issued by the King,
stating, that an atrocious crime had been committed in the De-
partment of the Garde, in respect to the person of Gen. La-
garde. Why! instead of one crime, hundreds had been con:-
mined, and the Government knew the fact. The assassin of
Lagarde was known; he was one Guassay, a volunteer serjeant,
as Ito might be cosily taken, and yet the Prefect haul made a
declaration that lie was not kuown. These were some uf the
strong reasons why ha would not support a tax which went to
maintain an army merely for the purpose of supporting on time
throne a family with opiniuus rind' actions such as he bad des
seethed.
Mr. PoNSONBV contended, that if the words " no longer"
meant nothing, why did the Right Hon. Gentleman leave them
out of the Bill ? But the assurances of time Right lion. Gentle-
man, and his promises and hopes, were delusive, and misled the
public. He stated last year, that the Batik Restriction would
expire this year, but it had been continued ; and he could tell
him, that his predictions were idle. The Property 'faa would
not expire at the end of two years—it would be entailed ou the
nation in order to support Ministers in their extravagant esta-
blishments.
air. BRAND maintained that the Ministers, perhaps without
intendiug it, had deceived the public; and every Gentleman
who consented to vete for the Tax had been deluded by the
Guverement to deceive their Constituents.
Lord Fotasaotta observed, that the Right Hon. Gentleman
wished to flint the doors against the voice of the people. lie
detanuied Gentlemen on his side of the !Rome from the impu-
tation of misrepresentation. Every person who could think
and feel absolutely detested the tax; they had met, and in the
constitutional way, by Petition, but Ministers wished to stifle
the national voice.
Mr. Ca tcamar was compelled to state (having voted for the
continuance of the tax tin• one year), that it was under the idea
it wits to continue for that titan and no longer. His believed
the majority of the house thought the same. It was therefore
deliaave in the Right Hon. Geutlentan,whoni he always hitherto
thought a plain-dealing emit, to come forward with his Bill in
his 'xact now, and say the words " no longer," were left out
ua pinvose.--(llcar, hscir.)—Viliy was not he, at the time lre
culled for the vote, (audid enough to tell the House so; bin in-
stead of so doing, he hail deceived him, and the nation in
ge-
liter.)
Mr. 'fitith EV wished to remind the Right Hon. Gentlemar,
as hen he was talking of inconvenience in net passing the Act
before the sth ut' April, that on turning Li the original Act he
found that it passed on the nth of August 1503.-4 ihar, hear.)
Mr.VANsITTAUT observed, that it the lion. Gentleman had
been misled by him, it was without any inteetion. No such
words as its vontinnance fur one year only had bitten front his
lips, lie had on two occasions, inately, ou the 2etti of Fe-
bruary ; and on soother, expressed his hopes that it might not
continue tier more than one year. Ile had then stated a case of
necessity, which he should has c reconree to low ; and if an those
grounds the (louse should tint consider the tax as justitiaLlc, ke
would not press it.--(/lear, hear.)
Sir ie. Be itntrr could not help contratulating the country on
the encouragement which the Chencenor of the Exchequer
bad Maul out of persevering, which it they did, he had no
doubt would obtain then] the object of their desire. The Hon.
Baronet stated a case of a landlord, in which it was shewn to
the Cummissieners that he derived no rents or profits from the
land, yet he was ordered to pay the Property-tax. lie knew
atiother instance of a clergyman with an iliCql?le worth 10001.
a year, who this year received only 1 eat. rents, and was assess-
ed 1001. and further to the Poor's Rates 1501. These sums las
was compelled to pan—(/lear, !scar. )—I t haul been said that
the people had been misled by the Right Hon. Gent.; and
gentlemen had complained of being entrapped to vote for the
measure as a temporary one; nun, for his part, lie had nevex
been daveived by the Right lion. Gent.. for he nes cr believed
any other story than that the naivety-tax was intended to
be a permanent. measnre.—(kaar, hoar,)--hint the Right Hon.
Gent. had talked of necessity—that was the plea of Charles
1. when he demauded shipationey. Ile alladed to the suits
or extents issued front the Exchequer, to the automat of 30
'Minolta, which was a disgrace to the country. Why, lie asked,
slid not the Government make use of that money collected and
lying useless, Uhile the suitors or claimants were preferring
their claims, which they might uever get. 'lle mita:limed di.
a blends was another source of re lief. Ads citing to the battle
of ti aterloo, lie euid, thst the battle had turned the right way,
and Ministers like gamesters at cards, when their' last stake
was in baud, cried out, "double or quits," they idaytd deep,

, A

and the game had certainly turned in their favour.—( h,ar,
hear. i-- He deprecated the erection of barracks, and stated
the opinion of the great Lord ('hatham, "that when a barrack
wax built i.l England, adieu to the liberties of the colentrv."
We we-t now in the midst of barracks, and surrounded be die.
tress. He requested Country Gentlemen to persevere iiu up-
sosing the tax.
Lord EIIIIINGTON regretted that the Right Hon. Gentleman
had not intimated a wish to delay the consideration of the tax.
lle strongly tee() 11111 l ended the Country Gentlemen to unite in
opposing the tax, which was to support an eIIOVITIOGS 3lilitary
Establishment. He hoped the Noble Lord had not imbibed
any British jealousies of the military nations on the Continent
whs.,' lie was there; fur a military spirit wae the bane and the
curse of Europe.
Mr. Pit LaTON repeated his former statements of the distresses
of the country, of which he could read the !louse a history.
He denominated the Chancellor of the Exchequer a puny,
miscalculating person; and said, lie could be content to go
down the stream of tune, if the distress only affected himself;
but when the whole country we're involved, he could not avoid
feeling. and expressing those kelings.
Mr. W yet: was sorry to find his Right Hon. Friend persist-
ing in not allowing the people time to express their opinion on
this subject. Meetings would be held in every part of the na-
tion in a few days , and it was the duty of every gentleman who
had constituents, to delay, if possible, the discussion on this
important subject, till those constituents had had time to de-
clare their opinion. Ile also much regretted that such language
as hail been used should have burn adopted by Ministers, as—
" Limo'. int impatience of taxation;'—" exaggerated state-
ments," Vic. Were these the proper terms to be used towards
the people who. fur 12 years, had borne their burihens with
unexampled patience?—Such language as this tended only to
destroy the confidence of the people in their Representatives.
Mr. ROSE thought the present discussion on the Property-tax
et as premature. It was impossible to judge of the propriety of
the tax till the necessity for it was shown ; and if it should be
found on enquiry that the money was necessary, lie was con-
vinced use tax could be proposed which would press so fairly
and equally upon the public as this would. —'Hear, hear.)—He
should like to hear those gentlemen who call so loudly Hear,
hear, etate what taxes they would propose, in lieu of this, which
would not press harder on the middling class of people. He
wished genUenien would suffer this tax ta have a fair and cool
disrussiou.
Mr. PONIONNY agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman. A
cool discussion of the tax was what he wanted. With respect
to the speech of the Right How Gentleman, it seemed to have
only one object, and that was, to terrify the people, by saying
to them, do not petition ago t the Property Tax; for if that
tax is repealed, the fruitful mind of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer will discover sonic other tax instead, which will be
ten-fold inure burtbensome to you. This was an entirely new
way of addressing the Representatives of the People, and
.througli them the People themselves.
Mr. Bum ISM AM felt more than ever convinced of the neces-
sity of delay in hriugiug forward this measure. The Right
Hun. Geutleinais who had just sat down had said nothing less
than this---at present you feel only the little finger of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, but soon you shall feel the weight of
his whole hand. .Ifter such a declaration, was it not fitting
the people should have time to express their opinions.
Mr. H. AnniseToe vindicated the Chancellor of the. Ex-
chequer front the charge of precipitancy on this occasion. On
the first clay of the Sessions, and several times since, his Right
Hon. Frivol bad dectaved his intention of proposing a con-
tinuation of the Property-tax. A month had since elapsed,
closing the whole of which time there had been every oppor-
tunity of the Inuple's presenting their Petitions. With respect
do his Right Hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the
House must feel that he, of all men, insist most anxiously look
forward to and desire a reduction of the taxes.
Ma-. FREEMANTLC was persuaded there was not a single Gen-
tleman in the House, except indeed the Right Hon. Gentleman
and his Friends, who, when he asked, last year, for the Pro-
perty-tax for one year logger, understood it was to be con-
tinued as a Peace 'rax. The Hon. Member then proceeded
to condemn the Property-tax in strong terms ; and observed,
that he trusted the House would now withhold it ; as, if the
Property-tax was not granted, the military establishment of
the country must be reduced. Under the present contemplated
Peace Establishment no greater saving than six millions an-
nually would be made. He would ask if this wee a lit return
to the people for all the sacrifices they had made for 20 years
,past
Lord BINNING did not recollect any pledge having been
given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on proposing the
continuation of the Property-tax last year, that it should con-
tinue :only during the war; iodised, the circumstances under
which its continuance was proposed, rendered the giving such
.a pledge impossible.—W Rh respect to any attempt on the part
of aliviisters to still.: the public voice, a crime which had been
eroputed to them, it was almost unnecessary to otter a word in
answer to a charge so absurd.
Mr. BARING was perfectly aware that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had declared his opinion on the Property-tax over
and over again ; and all lie (Mr. It.) wanted was, that the peo-
le should have sin opportunity of derlaring their opinion (owe.
The Noble Lord who spoke last, and a Right lion. Gentleman,
whoopake before helm (Mr. Rose), had said, that if it should be
found the proposed establiehmect was accessary, then money
anu+t he had ; and if the Property-tax was repealed, some other
must be impulsed which might be tOund more oppressive. Ile
{Mr. Bariug) would render this unnecessary, by obliging the
Right How I.:cutler/tan to reduce the estichlislimeut. Tine could
only be done, it appemed, by putting it out s'f ;be power of
Alinietc 111 to,provide for itseupport. Once reduce the Establish-
nient ; and WC necessity for the tax, the only argument which
aoulsl be adduced in its favour would b' clone away. The
House had unit told of the w ealth and prosperity of the coun-
try : had the Right lion. Gentleman, the Noble. Lord, alai his
travelled the country lately? ll' they had, they would
lave sum the ddierence. Nv, be loreot ; they might prooably
have travelled ; but if they had, their travels were probe's!),
confined tc the road between London and Brigletoa, and this
:out nerhatis wits all t.dr.ll, joy, and festivity.
Mr. WALLACE slefendeil the. Tax, tied observed, that no re-
eductiou could by poseibility be made in our ;meioses! Establish-
meat to en arnmet exceeding tiou,twal, and therefore the In-
4.oate-tax would still be nrce,sury.
Sic J. 11~ctssaoslt contended, that almost every county in.
'the I.iiige..:a was calked on, and in seas it or 8 slays would meet,
to expiess pa :he Property-tax. Buttf.e Right
Hon. Qentlemaii s. aw waute3 to force the House into a emisi-
aleristlei of (WA amiject on e riday net.', hence these °pi:liens
.could possible lasc.i.a the !dense; and (hue pledeleg the
Itur.si. to a e,l:Jil plat a stop to ti;.. petitions being
Jaceattriat but, by ealopting this course, the Right Hon.
Gesstiemen ;could deprive the people of our of their clearest
I.r•lirights.
words from 1%1 r. l'c Eivro.x. the Petition was. read.

THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

AKMY ESTIMATES.

The adjourned debate on the Army Estimates was then re-
sumed.
ME. J. P. GRANT considered the present question as one of
the greatest importance whirl could possibly come before the
House. Gentlemen were now called on to vote that which, if
they agreed tn, would he to give their sanction to au attempt to
introduce a Military Government into this country in the place
of our present Constitution. He, for one, could never agree
that there was • necessity for our maintaining a standing army,
during a time of profound peace, of 139,000 men. There 'lever
had been, ON any former occasion, a Peace Establishment of
more than 50,0(10 men; and he could_ not now look without
. .

alarm at an attempt to increase it threefold. He had the gre•,t-
est confidence and the highest opinion of the honour of toe
Officers who commanded this army ; but he could not consent
to put the liberties of the country in the power of any Class of
men or Ministers vi hatever. If the votes now asked were
,agreed to, it would form a precedent for keeping up such an
armed force es would render the Crown independent of any
controul; and the House of Commons might, at no very dis-
tant period, find itself the Representative Body of a people
free only in name.
Mr. YORKE explained.
Mr. Routasos said, the present question was not whether
we should have an establishment or not, but how far, in a con-1
stitutional view, we might go. Gentlemen were very partial
to drawing comparisons between tho present estimates and
those of 1791, without cons.ileting that the establishments of
that year were the establishments of a year after sewn years of
peace. And further, Gentlemen always wished to take the
present proposed establish lints a permanent peace establish-
went, w hick it by no means was. He was convinced that when
the subject should have been fairly discussed, the people of
England, who, when left to themselves, always thought right,
would also determine in favour of the proposed Establishment.
ith respect to endangering the Constitution, or the free-
dom of the country, he had as high a value for these as any
man could have. He believed it was owing to their being so
free that we were so great a people, and thought it was only by
our continuing free that we could continue great. He did not
consider that our freedom would he at all endangered by agree-
ing to the estimates now before the House; and feeling that
they were necessary for the honour and interests of the coun-
try, he would give them his conscientious support.
Mr. En xt.ia A NTLE found himself called upon to oppose these
Estimates, both on the ground of constitutional danger and
expense. He contended that our rich colonies ought to sup-
port the whole or part of their Establishments. Since the c -
mencement of the war, the people had paid, in direct taxation,
103$ millions; and together, directly or indirectly, 1750 milt
lions. Surely, after such sacrifices, the House should pause
before they fixed on the people a peace expenditure of nearly
seventy millions a year.
Lord BINNING thought the arguments of the Hon. Gentleman
called strongly on the House to go into the Committee, in
which it might be shown whether the economical arrangements
he had recommended were practicable or not. Instead of this
being a scheme to this ow on us the trammels of a military despo-
tism, he contended that, in a Committee it would be shown,
that the establishment proposed was necessaly for the mainte-
tenanee of our liberties.

Sir It. HERON said, no one could argue that a standing army
to sonic amount should not be kept up, but there was a great
difference between a standing allay of 45,000 men and one of
150,000. It would be impossible to keep up these establish-
ments without draining the country so as to reditee as to a state
of national bankruptcy. If we must hare foreign alliances, let
them be mode on the principles of civil liberty, and not to main-
tain a parcel of despots on their thrones. Since the battle of
Waterloo, oar intim, with the despot, (with the Duke of Wel-
lington for their High Constable. and the Noble Lord as their
Gentleman Usher> was not for the benefit of the people. That
union would never be against any King except such an one as
the King of Saxony; it would never be against the ledoved
Ferdinand. These Sovereigns allowed their armies to be'paid
by us—they had defended themselves and attacked their mor-
tal enemy, at our expense. They charged 111. 2s. for every
men, dead or alive, whom they brought to our assistance, or
rather to their own. All loans made by us to them were quite
forgotten. He snpposed they would nut be thinned by a nation
of shopkeepers, though at the point of bankruptcy. They were
our most magnanimous and rapacious allies.—(4 laugh.)
Mr. PEELE contended, that if be had to address a House
composed of Irish members, he could easily show that the cis it
power in Ireland was at present Madequate to the maintenance
of tranquillity there, and that 25,000 men were absolutely ne-
cessary for that purpose. lint as an Hon. and I...anted Gen-
tleman (Brougham) said last night, that England was nut Ger-
many: is let Gentlemen remember that Eiteland was not
Ireland; and therefore, when legislating for Ireland. let them
not think they were doing so fur England. In Ireland they had
not that inestimable blessing -a resident gentry ; and they had
au encreiting population, without means of employment. A
military force was necessary for the usual military duties: in
aid of the civil power; and to keep down that grievous bahe
to Ireland—illicit distillation. He was hot more partial than
others to the employment of the military for maintaining the
civil peace; but it was better that by the army the midnight
incendiary and murderer should be apprehended, than that
they should be suffered to escape. The loyal and industrious
peasant deserved protection; and unless it wet e also afforded
to the country gentleman, they would not reside on theirestates.
Mr. W. IVVNNE said, that if the tremendous picture drawn
by the Right Hon. (iCidit 111:11I was correct, it surely, at least,
should be substantiated hi ample enquiry ; and it was the duty
of the House to use every effort to remedy such alarming evils.
But he was not sure sslwther the employment of the military
force on all civil procew:s would not tend still inure to weaken
the respect entertained tin Ireland for the laws. On the sub
jest of going into the Committee on the Estimates, he contend-
eel that it %%mild be infinitely more constitutional to vote a
sum for the payment of the army in France, and that the sum
to be paid by Prauce for the maintenance of that army should
be lodged in the Treasury under the contronl of Parliament.
' On this ground, if the inotiou for going into the Committee
should succeed, he shoolil feel it his duty to move, that if it be
an infornetion to the Committee to provide a aunt for the pay ,
of the army in Frauce. He felt no apprehension from the
power of Ennio*, crippled as it w:l4 ; but be apprehended
danger from the tary spirit which was growing in the roan-
try.-=Thirty years ago there were no solelhors stahaned at the
British Museum or the loyal Academy, tint now then were ;
and, besides, the passages through St. Jaimrs's wet e %tor, ed
soldiers, is breach of the Privileges of the House, even
Members, by an authority vs melt In %V RS d soul.
and he hoped some one would firing the subject forward, in
know uy what authmeey the Executive Gov ernment brut order
ed those passage s
Sir J. N Lee Cour - age red s‘ th the Right Hoe. 'Gentle-mai,
(Mi. Peek) that a less force foam %bat wan sought tar

MARCH 4.

would oe went. 1).• wishrd that pi enarneitt,
and not tempot ary retacntes should he C I for the evils un.
der which Ireland loitoneed. Sneh remedies coeld only ho
found in the hurt t of 4 Connnittve appointed to inqiiiie into
the real state of !eclat:4.

Lord Fni.ksTorne moved an :nljournment, to which Mr. yam.
nittart agreed; and at Two titloek the Debuto war, adjoulutd
till the nest day.

WEDNESIM V, FEB. 28.

Petitions from the Borough of Montro:,e, from three of the
ilundri.d, of Suffolk, from Arundel, and from Fiteshire, were
presented against the Property Tax.

. .
Mr. JONI:* said, the people of this country had shown that
spirit of nationality which disanguished them above all others
by patiently bc,iring the burdens of taxation wits a they saw
how absolutely necessary they were for in,iiinng success to the
great contest in which we had been engaged : but it s its tin.
grateful to weigh them down and sink theta to the earth when
peace had again promise., her long sou rht blessings.
Serjeant OasLoW protested against the adoption of the Pro.
perty Tax in time of peace ; and he hoped that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would himself see the imprmriety of pressing
upon the people what they seemed neither waling Dot able to
endure.

Sir B. HERON stated his reasons for having, on a former oc-
casion, voted for the tax, and why he should in the present ses-
sion decidedly oppose it.
The Hon. L. DLNHAS presented a Peti.!on from York, and
Mr. CoisF. one limn Brandon, in Stiff°lk, and Irma .swafflaani,
in Norfolk, against the l'roperty
Sir F. ISt 12DETT brought up a Petition from the town of
Monmouth against the Property Tax. '1
Re-
lieved, complained not only of the want of faith in Parliament,
and the gross violation of their pledge in endeavouring to per-
petuate a measure %%Inch was scarce!) tolerable in the most
dreadful warfare, and which was never to be borne by a tree
people in a period of tranquillity; but of the pcusionst which
had been granted so lavishly by Ministerial influence, and time
sinecure places which were given to men who had done no-
thing in the service of their country.. -Ordered to be '..ld an
the table.

Mr. P. Moong broutht up a Petition froni Coventry against
the Property-tax. The Hon Member reminded the House of
what he h.id said in the course of the last Session, that he ...mild
not contribute, and he should always advise his constituents
and the country not to contribute, one shilling towards the
establishment of the Bourbons on the Oriole of Franey. He
said, that great as this petition stated the distress At Coventry
to be, it stated not a tenth part of the stab.: ings. The House
would he shocked to hear, that the pittance atr,:i tied by a
work-house, with all its disadvantages, so tar excelled what
was to be had by the lower classes of the people without it,
that interest was frequently excited to be permitted to share

Mr. BuTTERWORTM did not think that the tax would have
been so oppressive, had it not been levied upon income as well
as property. Whatever Ministers might say, the yountry was
in a state of unprecedented distress that could only be fully
known by those who saw it. The trade of Coventry was se
greatly depressed, that sonic houses which used to pay •tool.
or sdol. a week to workmen, now paid only 401. or AL
The Hon. Mr. LvT►t.ETox belic►ed, that the Right Hon.
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had no eoi reel idea of the
distressed state of the country. Proofs of it bad b.►n laid be-
fore the House, however; and inure proofs would every day
conic before the Parliament.

Mr. LOCKHART said, that to a Property-tax, properly gra-
dnated and apportioned, he would give every support; but to
a Property-tax, founded on uvh principles as at present pro-
posed, he could not consent.
Mr. THOMPUOt said, that the fanners were in a most dis-
tressed condilion. He knew fai:uers who had been some time
ago worth two, three, Kodl four thousand pounds, and who were
now in an absolute state of bankruptcy; yet were pitying the
some Property-tax still as they had been in their most prosper-
ous daps.
. . _ .

Mr. 'll. SHAW hoped that his 3lajesty's Ministers would listen
to the complaints of the House and of the nation: He expo-
sed the injustice at the tax, and thought a loan might be advan-
tageously resorted to instead. The ineasii.•e, if carried, he was
convinced,would prove most detrimental t ven to Ministers; and
ter their own interests he recommentlei! them to listen to the
general sentiment prevailing wilhiu and without the House.
Mr. Ila itei.vl, said, all means of retrenchment ought find to
be tried ; and, before monuments were proposed to be erected
to our armies, it ought to be considered whetter the Property
Tax would not be a monument of our listresses Although he
objected to the continuance of this otlensiv emeasnre, hu should
nut think it necessary to vote against the army Estimates.
Mr. Knout:llAM implored all the Ilembers who opposed the
proposed renewal not to allow the t'liancellor to bring in his
Bill. the', dis ided their fortes, and allowed the tax to go
on at ad, with the view of making te,.ditications iu it, the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer would take them in detail, and carry
through his edition of the. tax.

Mrl- Fon ins stated, that he had been last autumn in various
parts of Scotland ; and that, both ghat he heard and saw, and
the represcutatioas made to him, ie could as,t...e the Howe
that in that CAntuity the Properkt 'fax eis unit ersaly exeera..l
tcd.—Mr. Ponsonhy, Lord Milton, and Mr. Martin, each spoke
shortly ag; t the tax.
Mr. J. SMITH presented n Petition from the town and county
of Nottitighato against the Property Tax, and the. propotitd
Peace Establishment. He supported the prayer ci the Peti-
tion at cousiderable length.
Mr. PHILLIPS expressed his surprise that none of 11w Hon.
Gentlemen on the other side ofthe Howe had et srtken in fa-
vour of Car measure. He denied that the 9f the trode of
the country wall so tiomishing as described in the Speech Item
the Throne.

Mr. FREEMANTLE thought it weA itnprAgibie the Chancellor
of the I..xelif goer should persist is it; fu., in puha of fact, he
could nut derive the revenue from it which he. expected, auti
the impost would fail of its effect.
Li.rd Cuss PTON was in favour of the Property Tax, because
he befit ic.l that .f the Chancellor of die Fxrliequer were forced
to abandon it,he would propose much worse taxes : not through
any disposition to oppress the people, but because he could not
help It. There was no Who- tax that %wild produce an equal
re%rlsCe.

Mr. Potteotrav congtatulated the Noble Lead on the courage
which he 11...1 thylaye.l on this occasion. Me had put himself
f irm and in the most manly and dign.fied manner for his friends,
the liii tea, mheu nut foie of Wens %Quid say any thing fur
thetitselves.
All the Petitions presented were ordered talk on the table.