The National Register.
London, England, 1816-03-04 00:00:00

531AUCII 4.

Mr. PONSONBY observed, that ant of these= Petitions there
were ?t) of them aosinst the Property Tax.
air J. anew presented a Petition from Farriugdon Within;
as did Mr. Baring one from Dorking, in Surrey.
The Petitions were then read and ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. VANSITTART MOW'S! ele Order of the Day tar the House
going into a Committee of Supply.
lord J. Ruescat, opposed the going into a Committee; he
tame down for that purpose ; bat if his purpose had not been
so, he shuuld, from the great uunther of Petitiorme presented
aeaiust the Tax on Property, have felt it his flute to object to
the vote. The time might come when it would be necessary,
in opposition to the principles of the Conatitution, to keep up
a large standing army, and an extended navy, but then the
liberties of the country would be gime; he therefore should op-
pose the estitnatig. It formerly had been said by Ministers,
that it was requiella to keep a large establishment to cane on
the war; now, they pretended a large military eitablishment
was uecessary, not to carry on the war, but to preserve the
peace.— (ilea,,kear.)—W hat must then have been the glorious
result of so lime a war, which prodnced in Ministers a convic-
t• that they could not secure a state of tranquillity. The
Noble Lord concluded by opposing the estimate, being referr.
ad to a Committee, meaning to follow it up, if successful, by
an Address tar a more reduced eetablishmeut.
Mr. Lewis considered the question as one affecting the
the country gentlemen, who, on all occasions, had rallied round
the Throne. lie called on them, therefore, to think for them-
selves, and decide fairly on what are the means of the country
to support the present proposed enlarged establishment. He
wished them to recur to the time of King William, when the
Country Gentlemen tore from that Monarch (who was, as it
were, the seal of the Constitution) his Dutch Guards, who
were his best friends in the war. He cared not who were
Ministers, but thought that the present Ministers had taken a
false view of the means and danger of the country. If Gentle-
men would look at the permanent theca now 40 minim's, why
the increased military establishment won't' be e 0 millions more,
making a permanent Peace Revenue of CIO millions. Could the
country bear it? He was afraid that we were at the end of tax-
ation.—The distresses of the country, he believed, were of a
nature of which Ministers were not aware. In respect to the
danger to be apprehended, there could be no danger from
Prance ; her army was disbanded. Nor could he see the ne-
eessity of keeping so large an army at home, when we had one
in France to so large an amount. He conteuded, that the
Islands did not require garrisons to the extent which Ministers
proposed to station in them; and expressed an opinion, that
the lonian Islands would be kept in perfect security with leoo
men, instead of 4000, as now proposed. But with respect to
the West India Islands, the amount of 14,000 men was infinitely
beyond the 1111 l titter necessary. lie noticed the situation of Ire-
land, which he regretted much, and lamented the unhappy
course pursued towards that country. He hoped that some
alteration would be made in the system of administering the
Itiovarnment there. He understood that it was propeeed to
vote 100,000 men for the Local Militia. This he thought a vote
higlay objectionable.
Mr. Pouffe observed, that the most convenient mode of die-
cussing the subject weuld have been in the Committee. He
was grad, however, it had been brought under discussion in any
way; fur it was right that the country should know that the
Government were pursuing a proper course; and, before the
debate was concluded, Gentlemen would be convinced of the
fact.—He apprehended that at this time of day there was no
dispute about having a standing army. The vast surface we
cover over the globe required a large one. At the same time,
he would admit the propriety of a legal anti constitutional
jealousy of a standing army in the hands of the Crown; but
that jealousy must depend on circumstances, as arising from
the sense of 'auger, or apprehension of it. He was deposed
to allow that it must be under civil contrunt—that of the Par-
liament. It was so—and that controul extended to the foreign
army. With respect to the army in general, it was well known
that the Crown at any time might receive a check from Parlia-
ment, by the refusal of a Supply. lint looking to the increased
population and wealth of the country—(/fear.)—Gentlemen
might object to the word; but, though there were distresses,
there was wealth enough in the coindry. As to the jealousy,
was it under these circumstances a cause for jealousy, that
there should be an establishment of 8 or 9000 men more than
there were 26 years ago? Did Gentlemen wish to disaand the
whole army, and turn the grenadiers into scavengers and dust-
men? It was useless to make comparisons with ancient es-
tablishments. All former peace establishment' were badly
constructed; and he believed that we owed some of the wars
to such cultedations a-at least some of the reverses of them.
He instanced the case of the French fleet of 20 sail, in 1734,
anchoring rimier Dungeness; at which time we had only 18,000
urea in urns, and no militia. He contended, that it was not
prudent to rely on the appearance of security, but to be pre-
pared for great events; so that whut is at stake may not be lost.
The Right Hon. Gentleman deuicd that the present estimates
were for a permanent peace establishment; they were only for
one year, in consequence of existing circumstances. In re-
spect to the army in France, he justified the policy of that part
of the establishment being maintained; besides, they were kept
there at the expense of the French. This surely would not be
an object of disapprobation to any gentleman, because if they
were not there, this country would be obliged to continue the
30,000 men on lialf-pay and other allowances. 'fie establish-
ment of 25,000 men in Ireland woul not, it was hoped, last long,
but that the disturbances would soon cease. ahe object of
his Majesty's Government is, to take off eight millions of Ins es,
including the 3 per cent. on the Property-tax; so that, taking.
every thine into consideration, the intention was to relieve tho
Minimum; oldie people. The Right lion. Gentleman went over
the nano in the estimates, and said, that not mine if the ex-
penses which lie enumerated was it pmsible for are couutry to
do without. The total ainotint was 1,000,0001. and this not for
• etaading army. But he looked forward to a reduction, when
the dangem, or rather the military spiat had subsided. Our
possessions being so very extended, we ought to be the better
prepared for attack. The maintaining of 30 or 40,000 men,
more or less, was of little consequence to a state like this.:
bear, from* boas aides.)—Gould Members believe that it
was any pleasure to Ministers to keep up a large force, if It
were not necessary to perform the usual duty of the country.
Mr. Buovotte at could not conceal his indignation at the
calm way in which the lion. Gentleman had expressed such
dangerous doctrines. It was not amended by his propagating
these to be his own opinion% as a Member of the Home, aad
not as one dins Majesty's Ministers. But he (Mr. U.) did con-
sider time Hen. Gentleman's speech as conveying time opinions
of Minister'. lie would not Who* him in detail, but content
himself with saying that he objected to the Speaker's leaving
the Chair, because the result of that movement must be the de-
struction of the Constitution. Was it any reason for our lay-
ing aside our peaceable habits, and este:famine etanaiag
armies, because the nations on time continent had become great
military nations? Ile viewed with jealnusy the establishment
liaightlwods, which must alter our 'asthma! charac