The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-03 00:00:00

very hard that the widows and children of officers who fell
in the war sholzicl lose the whole rabic of offlo eom-

families of officers should partake of the Patriotic Fund,
because that fund was not subscribed for the officers of the
army, but for the widows and children of non-commissioned
officers and privates. At the same time he thought that
the claims of officers who had purchased their commissions,
and who had been killed in battle, should be taken into
consideration.

Colonel NORTH knew an instance of a gentleman who
had subscribed 5001. to the Patriotic Fund on the express
condition that officers' widows and children would be par;
tAkers of it. He should do everything in his power to sup-
port the claims of officers' widows and children to a part of
that fund.

Mr. OTWAY called the attention of the Government to
the case of Colonel Moore, who had, withihis regiment, em-
barked on board of a transport which had not a sufficient
number of boats, and who had perished with the vessel. He
believed that the various steps iu that officer's promotion had
cost him not less than 14,0001. or 15,0001. Now, 901. a year
was a poor compensation for the widow of that officer. He
thought the whole of the regulation price of the commission
should be returned to the,widow in such cases.

Captain BELLEW was willing to provide for the widows of
soldiers who had been killed in the service. At the same
time he should like to see some measure for providing for the
families of soldiers who died either in battle, or from disease,
in the service of their country.

Mr. PEEL said that the Government did not contemplate
proposing any such provision.
Mr. WHITESIDE put the case of an officer killed 'after
having been two or three days in the trenches. Would
not his widow have the same claim iu that case as she would
have if her husband had been killed in battle I'
Mr. PEEL said it was intended to place the widow of sich
an officer on the same footing as if her husband had bee*
killed in action.

Captain ARCHDALL reminded the committee that in ad-
dition to the allowance of 90/. a-year to the widow of Colonel
Moore, 1001. had been granted by her Majesty out of her own
purse. (Hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON requested the committee to consider
whet had been suggested by the Under Secretary of War.
At the present moment, when operations were going on, and
when the generous feeling of the 'public were excited by the
gallant deeds of our officers and soldiers, the national im-
pulse was to deal liberally and generously in all those mat-
ters that concerned the families of the officers of the army.
Pensions for wouuds, • for widows, and provisions for or-
phans, were liberally made. But peace came, and then
committees were appointed to inquire into the amount of
the army estimates, and reports were made as to the
great and. heavy amount of the charge. Government was
then urged to pare down and diminish the provisions made
in the momenta liberality, and the allowances made were
taken away on the plea of an economical prudence. The
house ought, therefore, to preserve the greatest caution
not to embark in grants which might be irksome to the
country afterwards to maintain, and which they could not;
in good faith or without causing disappointment, take away
or diminish. That applied especially to the proposition made
I for pensions to the widows of soldiers. What had just hap-
Pened was an instance how these grants would increase. The
first suggestion was to pension suitably the widows of sol-
diers killed in action. Then another motion proposed that
pensions ought to be given to the widows of all soldiers who
died of disease in the service of their country, whether in
time of war or of peace. He hoped these matters would be
left to the discretion of Government, because the house might
feel sure that the Government shared in those feelings of gra-
titude for the services of officers and men which the country
entertained. But it must be kept in mind that it was neither
wise nor prudent—that it was not really conferring a benefit
on any class to grant one day what on a future day they
would take away. In the last war there were a great many
grants given, and afterwards narrowed and cut down by suc-
cessive committees and votes of that house. Of course that
created great disappointment to the class to which it was
applied. The grants to the upper classes might be so dimi-
nished, but if grants were made to the widows of soldiers,
and not permanently maintained, great injury would be clone
to the service, and great disappointment would be created
among those classes from which the army was recruited.
After some further conversation the vote was agreed to ;
as was also a vote of 81,0001. to defray the expenses of com-
passionate allowances.

- A vote of 31,1671. for Kihmainham Hospital having been
proposed,

- Colonel GREVILLE said that the hon. gentleman the
Under Secretary for the War Department had stated that
eywsing; in answer to a question which he lial put to him,
that the rate of pay, in the case of the clergymen of the
Church of England and the Roman Catholic chaplains in
the Crimea, was somewhat in proportion to the scale of
living to which the clergymen of the two churches were

accustomed. Now he wished to ask the hon. gentleman
what his idea was of the scale of living of the Roman. Catholic
chaplain to Kilmainham Hospital, for whom last year a salary
of 501. had been provided, but for whom no allowance was
set down in the estimates this year? (Hear, hear.)
Mr. VANCE wished to know how it was that while there
was accommodation for 300 persons in Kilmainham Hospital,
provision was made for only 144 persons?
Mr. PEEL said he was not aware why there had been an
omission in the estimates this year with reference to the salary
of the Roman Catholic chaplain at Kilmainham. If that cler-
gyman continued to discharge the same duties as last year, he
saw no reason why he should not receive the same amount of
salary. (Hear, bear).
Mr. WHITESIDE said that the duties of the Protestant
clergyman at Kilmainham were of a much more onerous de-
scription than those of the Roman Catholic chaplain.
Mr. S. HERBERT observed, that while the Protestant
clergyman at Kilmainham had no other source of income than
that which he derived from the discharge of the duties con-
nected with his office there, the Roman Catholic chaplain
had, besides his salary, certain parochial dues. (Hear.)
Mr. BUTT wished to know if the rumour that it was
the intention of the Government to reduce the establishment
at Kilmainham was correct? The warrant of 1845 ordered
that there should be four resident captains, and 700 in-door
pensioners, in that institution. The noble lord, the present
Secretary of War, had, however, undertaken, upon his own
responsibility, to make a reduction in that number some
years ago. That order of the noble lord had, however, been
rescinded by a resolution of that house upon a motion
which he about two years since had had the honour
to propose. But the right hon. gentleman, the late Secretary
of War, bad not acted in accordance with that resolution,
and the number of inmates in the hospital at Kilmainham had
continued at the number to which it had been reduced by the
order of Lord Panmure. He thought the right hoe. gentle-
man might be considered to have committed a petty larceny
iu that respect—(hear, hear,and laughter)—the original order
having been little.short •of downright robbery. (Renewed
laughter.) He wished, therefore, to learn what were the in-
tentions of the Government upon the subject.?
Colonel DUNNE said that the present was a time at which
instead of reducing the establishment at Kilmainham, in-
creased accommodation should be provided. It was per-
fectly clear that there would be, during the war, a great num-
ber of wounded soldiers for whom such accommodation would
be found necessary.

Mr. PEEL said that it was not the intention of Government
to make any reduction in the establishment at Kilmainham
at present. _ _

Colonel GREVILLE contended that to give the Catholic
chaplain at Kilmainham only one-fifth of the salary which
was received by the Protestant clergyman was not placing
them in the same favourable position as that in which they
stood in the Crimea, where their salary was one-half.
Mr. VANCE would ask what was the meaning of the sum
of 501. on a former vote if it was not for a Roman Catholic
chaplaht ?

Mr. F. PEEL—That was for the widow of the Protestant
chaplain. (Laughter.)
The vote was then agreed to.
1,885,5891. to defray the charge of out-pensioners of Kil-
mainham.—Agreed to.

33,7001. for retiring allowances and out-pensioners.—
Agreed to.
The house resumed.
Mr. BOUVERIE brought up the report on the Customs
Act.

The Exchequer Bills (17,183,0001.) Bill went through
committee.

MEMBERS' QUALIFICATION. •
I Mr. MURROUGH hoped tho house would allow him to
introduce a bill to abolish the property qualification for
members.
Mr. MACARTNEY objected to courtesy being shown to
hon. members who brought• in bills at that late hour. He
should oppose its introduction on that ground.
Mr. HADFIELD thought that no Property qualification
ought to be required, as it was a restraint on popular selec-
tion. If the provisions of the act were stringently enforced
it would exclude all the men of genius in the kingdom.
Mr. HENLEY said as this was part of a larger_ question,
he hoped the question would be allowed to stand over until
the larger question was ripe for discussion. He hoped the
hon. gentleman would withdraw his bill, and not distract the
house with such questions when more important matters were
in existence.
Colonel SIBTHORP, so far from wishing to diminish the
property qualification, wished the qualification was ten times
as much. Talk of men of genius, why he thought that the
fact of a member possessing property of his own made him
more careful of the people's property. If the property quali-
fication were abolished, the house would be nothing but tag-
rag and bobtail, without a shirt among them, and any kind of
dirt would find an entrance into the legislature. (Laughter.)
He had been a member of the House of Commons for 26 years,
and was sorry to say that he found it going down, and sink-
ing lower in respectability every session.-- Keep up the re-
spectability of the House of Commons by property men, and
the people at large would be more satisfied that their true
interests were protected. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON said, as a matter of courtesy, it
was usual to allow an hon. member to bring forward a bill
the contents of which were not known, and to explain the
bill to the house ; but this was not a case of that sort, for
all knew the nature of the measure. In Scotland, it was
true, there was no property qualification ; but that was one
of the stipulations of the Act of Union. That was an
exception ; and it. was contrary to true logic that the ex-
ception should form the rule. This was not a proper time
to enter into the reasons why it was not desirable that the
bill should be read a fii st time. He would take the broad
ground that the bill formed part of a projected system of
reform, which, by arrangement and understanding, had
been postponed for the present, and therefore it ought not
to be proceeded with further.

After a short conversation,
Mr. MURROUGH said he did not moan to pledge any
member upon that occasion to support the bill in its future
stages; but he hoped the courtesy would be extended to
him of allowing him to introduce it to the consideration of
the house.
The house then divided :
For the motion
27
Against it .....................
Majority against the intFoduction of the bill —1
Mr. J. BALL moved for a copy of any instructions issued
to postmasters in Ireland in regard to the reduced rates of
postage on letters addressed to France with the date at which
such instructions were issued.
Mr. WILSON did not object to the motion. The warrant
for the change in the rates of postage was not drawn up un-
til the 22d December in London; and some days necessarily
elapsed before instructions could be communicated to Ireland,
which 'was done on the 7th January,
In reply to an HON. MEMBER,
Mr. WILSON said no steps had been taken to make four-
penny stamps ; but he would communicate with the Board of
Inland Revenue on the subject.
Return ordered.
INCOME TAX ON ECCLESIASTICAL PROPERTY.
On the motion of Mr. NAPIER, leave was given to bring
in a bill to amend the Act 3d and 4th Will. IV., c. 37, by
providing that the property or income tax payable in respect
of income from ecclesiastical property in Ireland shall be a
deduction in estimating the value of such property for the
purpose of taxation by the ecclesiastical commissioners.
THIRD SECRETARY OF STATE.
Lord PALMERSTON moved for leave to bring in a bill to
enable a Third Secretary and Under Secretary of State to Bit
in the House of Commons.—Leave given.
The house adjourned at a quarter to one o'clock.

Mr. T. PITINS, M.P. for Bath, paired, ill LTCPUT a Lord
Giodericles zavtio, with Airs AT! FOUL,