The National Register.
London, England, 1817-05-12 00:00:00

alio nal :11k rt WM*

Our Mn, C'oniititution anb ilaS33l.

oNDAV, MAY 12, 1817.

IMPERIAL PARLIAVENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS.

No business of any Public laiiportance took place on Mon-
day or Titesdny.
WEDNFAIMY, MAY 7.
The Lned Chancellor acquainted the Manse that he had re-
ceived a letter, through Lord E.moutla, from the Baron Von
CApellen, tlet in. Chief of the Squadron of the King
of the Netherland , employed in the attack on Algiers, 4e-
kno iell:zint: the receipt of the Lord Chancellor's cceinnoni-
rating to him the Vote of Thanks of their Lord-hips' House
for his gallautry and condnct at the attack on Algiers.
THUTISUAY, MAY 11.
The Earl of LIVERPOot. gave notice that he would to-
morrow move for a Committee au the Poor Laws.
The Earl of Domounnstonta 'peesented the Catholic Peti-
tions, and, after a few obvertastions on the necessity and
utility of removing the Catholip disabilities fur the pnrpose of
conciliating the people, he concluded by thing Friday
se'amight for the debate on the inestion, it shaman be rejected
in the other Howse, which be' wan unwilling to snppose.—
Adjourned.
FRIDAY, MAY 9.

Owen's Divorce Bill was read the third time, and passed.
The Duke of BEAUFORT presented n Petition from certain
Merchants said Traders in Bristol, against Extents in Aid.

POOR LAWS.
The Earl of Lies:avow, called the attention of the House to
the important subject of the Poor Laws. From all that he
had heard and thought upon the subject, he was of opinion
that great advantage might result from an investigation, un-
dertaken by the Lords themselves, which, by bringing infor-
mation before the House, would enable them either to origi-
nate the measure, or to meet arty measure coming from the
oilier House with limpet intelligence and pi eparat• . His
Lordship concluded with mewing for du appointment of a
Committee, to consider the state of tlw Poor Lows.
The motion was agreed to, and the Committee appointed,
and ortlt red to meet on 31onday ni

CORRESPONDENCE. BETWEEN Ts; • MAGISTRATES
or lIEWILSHIRE AND THE SECRET A KY or STATE.
Lord HOLLAND said, it Wall reported in the public prints
that the visiting Magistrate of the county of /Solis had made
• representation to tbe Secetrary of State, which was given,
together with the answer. It would give him great pain to
think that such answers should proceed trout the Secretary
ofSiate. For the present, he should content himself with
asking, whether any objection would be wade to the pro-
duction of the correspondence ?
The Karl of LIVERPooL was aware that some correspon-
dence 114 d passed. His Noble Friend would certainly be
hi the House on Monday, and he would recommend to the
Noble Lord to put oti his question until then.—Adjourned
till Monday

HOUSE OF OF COMMONS.

MONDAY VAT 3.
Y OF LONDON TITHE. BILL.
Sir W. moved the second reading of the London
Tithe Bill. The Hon. Bart. felt the importance of the Bill,
and the strength of the ground upon which it stood. He knew
that some Gentlemen were averse to the Bill; but when lie
knew that the persons for whom lee appeared paid at the rate
of 2s. 9d. in the ponnd, they might have cause to complain.—
The Corporation,howevcr, wished to meet the question fairly,
and as suite of the partshe4Ciecriciinequally rated, he hoped
that the parishes would unite anit allow the Clergy, to have a
fair compensation, so that the rate might not fall heavily on
one parish to the detriment of another.
Dr. PHILLIMORE thought he could convince the House,
that the Hitt ought nut to go a second reading. 'the Art of
Ilenrs VIII. was framed with a view to set at rest for ever
the jitference in respect of Tithes. Now the object of the
present Bill, was to set aside a statute w hick had been acted
upon for three centuries. The preamble of the present Bill
set out with stating what was not true. Alter the calamity of
the fire of Lecithin, an Act was passed for the express purpose
of satisfying all doubts in respect to Tithes, in consequence
of the tire and the redaction of so many houses. The pre-
sent Bill did not state that any doubts existed as to the policy
of the present Acts on the object. Conceiving, therefore, the
measure as unjustifiable,- he would move, as au Antendinent;
that the Bill lie read a third Opie.illis day six months.
SirJ. SHAW observed,that nothing but disputes had existed
since the passing of Aets althded to by the Hoi . and Learn-
ed Gentleman. The parish of Christ Chnrch only paid 24d.
in the pound, they not being included no the airangenient
made iu the reign of Charles the Second, after the tire of Lim-
don) while other parish's paid 2v. 911. according to the sum
fixed under the Act of Henry the Eighth. The present Bill
would go to an amicable adjustment of all these differences;
utid therefore he should support the bill.
Sir W. St oTr reviewed the pruvisnais of the Act of Henry
VIII. which, he contended, was slittititilt fur all the pea..
poses now prayed fur; that Art bad been ',larded and fenced
around by subsequent .tcts. The Art settaing the assessment
of Tithes, had been enrollot iu she ',toper court ; part of
the lay impropriations were is the hands of the Exchequer,
and certainly were as much outlined to the protection of the
law, as the rights of any tHlow vested proprietors. Much as
he respected the Magistrates .f the City of L ttttt ion, lie cemlll
not consent to shut out the pet sons Iteldine vested riles lion
the Courts of Justice, and plate them in the hands sod at the
disceetion of the Magisteney.
MIN Alderman Avaias•enforeed the opinions of his col.
leaguv, in support of the Bill.
Sir J. GRAHAM stated, that no impropriater hail ever en-
forced hie tight to the O. 9d. iliough he was as touch entitled

9,!d.

twit as the housekeeper was to the trot* of his pi nn the
117 s. 3,1. With respect to impropriators, he knew one Gentle-
mairs ancestors, had purchased, in the year 1728, for
10.001. a lay inuirolorintorshii,o, a hick now wenld he worth
to wirehair from id to 5(0,0001. and vet he had net demand.
ed his right 0f25.9.1. ; still he hail a right to it fur the sake of
his lmi:y.and Me would advise him, as a lawyer, to demand
it. He hoped the Bill would tie unanimously rejected.
Mr. IturreitwouTu stated a circumstance iu respect Ia
lay impropriatious, in w hich the purchaser had imeneilia
demanded his 2s. 9d. which increased the valuc of his pus
chase several thousands. 'flue was in the parish of Sr
Dunstan in the West

The Homo thin divided.—Tor the second readinz now 21
—Fur the Aoloothnrnt 146--31:ijority against the Bill 124.

FIRST REPORT OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE.
Mr. D. GILBERT moved the Order of the Day for the
House going into a Cummitte e on the Filet Report of the
Finance. The House being in a Committee, the lieu. Gen-
tleman proceeded to open the subject, by stating his opinion
on the existence of Sinecure Places, to which he objectesi on
several grounds ; amongst other grounds of objection %Ma
he entertained to Sinecures were, first, that they were always
liable to be influenced by favouritism , that they were fre-
quently granted in reversion; that if they were not always
disposed of through favouritism, they were always a subject
of suspicion ; and last, though not least, that there was a e! y
existing against them from one end of the country to the
other. These were some of the reasons which had always
influenced him to vote for their abolition as far as was prac-
ticable, and not because he felt that their abolition would
afford any material relief to the country. If Sinecure Pinot*
were door away, it would be necessary to place in the hanft
of the Crown some other mode of rewarding public 'civic's.
This the Committee had frit, and had, in consequence, recom-
mended, that the Crown should have a power of granting
pensions cominenssinite with the services performed by the
individuals to be rewarded ; and lie Mendel have to propose
Resolutions for Bills to this effect. The Hon. Gentleman
concluded by moving a Re-solution, that the Chairman be
instructed to ask for leave to bring no a Bill to abolish the
Others of Chief Justice in Eyre.
Mr. Dawson read the Report of the Finance Committee,
and could not but consider the proposition now hraight for-
ward as most dangerous. He entreated the House to pause
before they swept away what the judicious prouing hook of
1792 had left. He denied Chit the influence of the Crow■
was too great. The character of the present House of Com-
mons proved that it was nut ; fur he believed tittle never had
been a mole unmanageable House than the present *ss.—s.
[A langh.]—He objected much to the proposed mode of
rewarding public services with pensions. He contended,
that by adopting this system of pensions, a charge of 27,00 n.
would Ise incurred by the nation in five yeas., aunt 190,0001,
in au years. The Him. Gentleman also objected to the abo-
lition of the old State Oakes ill Scotland, which, lie said,
were valued by the people of that part of the Empire as the
only remains of this ancient indepe tidant regal state.
Lord CASTLEREAGH did not consider the influence of the
crown ar having increased shier 1792. He did not however
agree with the Hoe. Gent. alto spoke last, tied by this mea-
sure our Pension List would, in tire years, be inciemed to
27,0001.; or in thirty yeais to lets.outal ; on the contrary, if
die Hon. Gentleman had read the Bid carefolly, he would
have fiend that at 110 period could the pensions amount to
more than 42,00e1. and that must be tinder very peculiar cir-
cumstances. fair probability was, that she sum would
never exceed 30,9001. and thou( could not accrue in less time
than twelve years. The measoire would, to a certain extent
be productive of some saving, though not a very material one.
'flee Hon. Gentlenose who haul proposed it had nest.. des.
el ibed it as hitch. The whole anoient of these sinecure places,
as they were called, thought several et' them weer not ►ine.
cures, did nut exceed 100,0001. ; and iheretere, if the w hole
of these vibe's acre• swept away. the saving would be Moue-
tee lat. He should now cone to the second branch or .he
questioe —the patronage of the Crown; and so far ass lie
train eousiderine the innitenee of the Crown mu-remit .g, 11141
could he thr a moment suppose the present superstore would
opt rate to abridge the paireniage of the Crone, he would
give it his strongest opposition, as a measure pregnant with
the greatest public disadvantage. He knew fith wed that au
of had gene Mound, that if government %mild Kis e up
sinecure places, all distress would cease. The fallacy of this
opinion needed no argnmrut to make it apparent. He was
ready to allow that some of these offices haul, w course of
time, risen to a height of profit nese r cotitemplated when they
were established. Two of them ieniained at the co nee-

tnent of the present Session not under the control of
meta. To one of them • Noble F tend of bit( (Lord Camden)
hail put an coil.—Herr bevel—Hot nothing would put ,n cud
to the feeling which existed 111 the pantie mind agaiii•t sane.
rules; and therefore tie thour.ht, if possible, they sl ld he
given up to the %ibises of the people, and some other le of
carrying on the public business adopted. The Noble Lord
then, at considerable length, rotted into a defence of the
nt slow proposed, mod expressed his hope, that it would
be adopted t persuaded, as ha was, that it would go far to
meet the wishes of a great portion of the community.
Mr. J. I'. (iRANT eyelid nut agree with the Solite Lord, or
with the Cheirmvn of the Committee, tL tl this 11041311 re would
nave any satisfaction to the people. Ought nut the
'suttee's first business to have net n to ^tithe a balance by
tweca the expenditure and income? But 110 ;he so 464.5 ed
we should have lb% Artily Estimates voted, the .!xtvvy Lsti-
males agreed to, the Ordnance Emiiiiates eatrieil
the House; and 14,1 would come that which inieht to have
been tint, the balance of Income and Expenditure from ihe
nllolll'll. Committer. The Hon. Gentleman then procc,.,ed
to comment 1111 the forming of the report. He sad, the Cum.
raittee had recommended the retaining certain Ohre*, and
abolishing others, %mount assigning any ressous. 0 e of
the Joint Papeasieri scab to be dune array. Aoreases

146

as‘igned'why both the Post-masters General were to be re-
tained. The office of Keeper of the Great Seal in Scotland
was to exist still, hut tke salary ttas not to exceed 20001. stud
similar regulations were to be made in the Oakes of Lord
Privy Seal, and Lord Justice General in Scotland. '1 Its
Commillee,towever, did not cotidescend to give any reasons
for these recommendations. The proposed saving which
arise from adopting the recommendation of the Coin
dttee would be about 50,0001. out of which, according to
the Noble Lord's fitutrrnesit, pensions to the amount of
30.0001. or 42,4391. was to he vistaed, leaving 00091. or
10,0031. at most ; and how much of•this wneld he saved when
it was considered that die board of 'f reasury would have the
yower of inurrasinp, the salaries of Deputies to an equality
with those.of principals? So much for the economy of the
measine, with respect to the increased intiue nee of Ilse
,Crow n, he was our of those who thought it had increased ;
,and, what WAS more important. that its intlitecea was not
,contim•rt to the House of Commons, but that its influence
Aesteneled to the it lection of .%lembers of Parliament before
they came into the House. 11 Slit revert to the present mo-
tion, he shonld not oppose it, as he considered it as of little !
consequence wbeihei it was e.srriesl or not.
Unit CasTi.LnLAnis said a few isfirtis in explanation.
Mr iksufaxnx spoke in lissom- of the Repot t.
Stu J. NEWPMCI CUiittlllitl,itiA• the Committee, after sit
'Minx three months had done nothing snore than adopt the lid
introduced last session by the lion. Menilser for Corte Castle
(Mr. Banks); whoa lt Bill. boa ever. they had su aitered. :15 to
fender it, it' adopted, entirely useless. The objections to 1114
tep.4rt of the Committee now was not, as had been stated, that
it went too far in the work of retienchinent but that it did not
go far enough.
Mr. NI 4ir vArr complained of the meamre of Sinecure Of-
fice., in the Colonies, s spectalls in the Island of Demerara ; in
whiten, slut ing the lime it was tinder the controul of the lintel',
there vitt, slot a single sinecure office Now the expenditure
of the !Amid had •inci eased so h, that he was told by a
gent tematt this 'training, who had an estate his Demerara, that
till. log the time the l)titch had possession of the Islam!, his
taus were Iole mule than 20J1. a yr, ar, whereas at present
the,: exceeded 7001.

Mr. Itontssok complained that it was unfair, in a debate
like the present, to quote individual cases. The Hun 6en-
tlenivit had complained of persons lioldin4 Offices in the Co-
lonies who never were there ; did the Hon. Gentleman forget
thst a Bill passed, three )ears ago, rendering residence neves-

aary.
Lord MILTON said,his objection tothis Report was, that it
neither a ent fir enough, not did it proceed upon any sound,
general principles.
Mr. 1). GILBERT said, the Committee bad adopted, as
nearly as possible, one of the Reports of a former Finance
Committee.
Mr. TistisEV said, that if there hail been any real wish for
Irmo( netiimmt in the Ci• tire, their Omit m n might hale
lead the Report when he pi esented it to the House on the
911,, mid then have moved fur have to tiring in a Bill to abolish
Sin. cures. He weut our day to this Committee, and found an
HOll. Co-11110111111 snowing certain proper
Resolutions, that all
Sinecure Offices, and thos- executed by Deputy, should be
abolished; het the Noble Lord (Castlereach) would not con-
sent to it ; anil he moved, that certain Offices be abolished ;
and when he (Tierney) asked him for his reason, he refused
to assign one ; Paying, it was dangerous. Accordingly the
peopuslunu of the Noble Lord was carried in the Committee,
un a division of 16 to 3. He was afraid, that by the course
the Committee were adopting no good would be done in the
preeet Session. The C 'tier ought to have looked to
the Pension List, which amounts to 210,0091. a year. and then
bare seen whether they might not have saved at least 10,0001.
They hail recommended 20001. a vehr to be given to the Vase
Pic sident of rte Board of Trade; now hr wished to know
why the Master of the Mint, or the TIT3bUIVE of the Navy
coui.l not perform the duties of that I Wire. One Postina•ter
too was, in his opinion, sufficient for the ditties of the Once.
The Committee il, have made its Report in a month after
its fen illation. He affirmed, without fear of contradiction,
that there vomit be a deficiency in our income of ih mill'
for the seat t which held out so horrible a prospect, that
his opinion tine Committee ought to enquire into every branch
et useless expenditure, and recommended their immediate
abolition. 1311104% the Peace Estahlishinint were reduced
notch brlow 19 ntillions. the country must be bankrupt. He
hoped this Report would be adopted, although in his opinion
there never was a Committee that deserved less the confi-
dence or approbation of the country.
The Resolutions were then agreed to, for leave to bring in
Bids to abolish the offices of Warden of the Cinque Ports, the
Chief Justices in Eyre, the Auditors of the Exchequer, ixe.