The National Register.
London, England, 1818-02-15 00:00:00

rms. 15

into a long and circumstmitial narrative of all the proveed-
inga' in the course of which he was repeatedly cheered
by both sides of the Reused lie strongly censured the con-
duct of the Lord Advocate, and supported in warm terms the
charges made by the mover of the question.
Sir A. COLQUIWU pa had never been present upon any orca•
aims where charges more unfounded were brought forward.
Gentlemen needed not to be afraid, they should hear bins
while he distinctly asserted, that there was not a shadow of
foundation for the charges this night produced ; he denied
that they were charges—they scarcely deserved so grave an
appellation, since they rested upon bare assertion or distort.
ed proof. The Hon. Member who spoke last, had even gone
beyond the Noble Lord with whom the motiou originated, and
had brought forward written opinions, upon which he intend-
ed to overthrow the established law of Scotland. Hr had
termed the Noble and Learned Lord (the Lot d Advocate),
and his coadjutors, unfortunate Gentlemen, and had affected
to lament an unlucky dereliction of their duty; but as to one
of them at least, the Hon. Member would himself admit that
his knowledge was equal to Isis talents, and his honour and
integrity to both. Having stated many particulars which went
to overthrow all the assertions made by the Noble Lord, and
Mr. Grant, he observed, it was not a little singular, that the
counsel for the prisoner, among whom was the Hon. Geode-
in:au (Mr. Grant), at the time, expressed their full approbation
of the conduct of the Lord Advocate; though now he (Mr.
Gran!) stepped fot ward, and could not find terms sufficiently
forcible to express his disapprobation. His warmest applause,
however, had been given at the time, when the ink was
hardly dry, which by his present statement, recorded the in.
(Amy of the Noble and Learned Lord and his coadjutors.
Mr. C. WYNN staid, that the material question lay in a very
narrow compass, :sod it was wholly unnecessary to dive into
the intricacies of the 'Scotch law. No doubt, implicit credit
oughtuut to be given to the depositionof Campbell the witness,
but it was not an uutrequeut occurrence, that a witness at the
trial gave testimony in favour of a prisoner, when there was
previously: every reason to think that his evidence would in-
duce a conviction ; a case of this description occurred in 1693,
Vhen trials took place fur high treaton in Lancashire :sod
shirv; ; the principal witness there, of the name of Luck, when
put into the box, directly contradicted all his former asset-
tions. Parliament had afterwards investigated the ease, as
was flow desired ; fur on the second day oh' the session they
bent fur the witemates to London, and finally it was resolved
that the Crown had good ground for instituting the prosecu-
tion. lie trusted, that from what had appeared in the course
of this discussion, the Huns, would be unanimous in the opi-
nion that there existed a sullivient ground for enquiry.
Lord easci.eitibusit observed, that notwithstanding all that
had been said, and the imlnstry display ed to hi itig the con-
duct of the Learned Lord and his colleagues jute discredit,
there did not appear to him that there were ally sufficient
grounds of enquiry made out.
Sir S. Rositid.v thought the able and eloquent speech
of Mr. Grant 'mans wei able, and fully agreed in the view
w Wei' the Noble mover had taken (Attie subject.
Mr. J. P. GRANT denied that the cont,sel Inv the isoners
had ever paid the Lord Ad vomits. any compliment, or that he
(Mr. J. P. Grant) had ever concurred in any such. lie had
the authority of Mr. Jetferies to state, that the b-w words said
by him had been much misrepresented, he hed only paid a
'brief' compliment to the relict.
Mr. V. FrILOI.MALO thought the Lord Advocate not only
authorized OM Untand to du what he had done for the further.
alter of public justice. lie (31r. V. Fitzgetaid) perfectly
agreed with the Learned Lord in his construction of the
wards '3lOl. pl-oven,"and thought they Merrily proved that the
unless fut oat his had been administered.
The ArTuit%Y ONNEIZaL after reading the ease through
with great attention, could nut see it iu the light that the
Learnea Gentlemen (Sir N.10'8:illy ) nail dune ; out he thought
he cleat!). SOW in the acct n,t or that C.impuell, the artful
story an t uunmgai.d dcsigainigniau, w ha knew how to disqua-
lify himself o here' he dot nut choose to give evidence. ills
Leas iiea Friend (gir S. hominy) runs 41111 W him to V the
ruotisn before the house, not as a wistont for inquiry, but ter
ensure. Vining to have the record put on the table would
be swim:- there *sax matter of impeachment against the
Lor•• • tr. tllra, hear, from both sides of the house.)
. would scent to defend a case such as tile Noble
Lor• eia.nision) viewed this cr,e, yet viewing the case
as C. • , very differently from the Nook Lord, he did de-
Zeno
A;
Ma .
L• . HAMII TON replied.
T.. a • -e their di% ided upon the motion of Lord Arelii•
bald awn, and toe numuers were—
A: i —Noes, 136 —Majority against the motion, 63.
U motion t,t Jlr. hoes, leas e was given to bring in a
bill f suppi essiou of gaining housed, and regulation of
bons, . the purpose lit
!“.1" orders 011ie day were then disposed of, and the
Ilonie adjun used a hail past 1.2
W. soh viols'.
Mr. MEtttsu brought its a Bill to enlarge the powers of
the .lc 101 inakisni nrauneratiun to Coroners, and also fur
powers to re 1111 l ve (haul from othee.—lCead a first time.
G .4 (NO. . _

• ,v words from Mr. K. FLNLAY in support of the

Oil the Motion for the sci.ciiisl reading of a Bill for the sup-
press:on of G, giu ea.'s:seined houses, and to prevent the
ails:owing money for su••11 purposes, a cunt ertation ensued iti '
which
Ttu• SAmwtHAIHE Mr. LYTTLETON said, he could not have
supposed (oat any body wsaild have further a princi-
ple recognizing au immoral and sciaid ~otii, tratho.
After a few words from Mr. Bennet, Sir M. Ridley moved
It should be priuted,which vas ordered; also that it should
be read a secoud that to-morrow se'imight.
SUPPLY.
laa,t CASTLEREAGH 1110‘rd, that the papery respecting the
treat!. Spans iit• rtfeared to the Cosminttee.—agreed to.
Ou iise Utotimi iui the Sprakei's leaving the chair,
Mr. sl A.111)NWI us alluded to the circumstances attending the
callis,.. .of tn. Bash tokens. He thought that Government
:nigh. Ist some lacilities fur the purpose. Could they not
.vets to thliereut places, which would redound
the s edit, and give satisfaction to the country i• A
Brea, u ut the tut,eus was in the isussussion of labour-
ers a sses, who &Mein feel much ust7otivisincnee and
loss so send thrill to Loudon.
'l7. • .s. cult in the EXCIIEQULIt .84i,1 that he t1:11 slat
api..( 11,L4.111\titteiiec tioolll ()Wit to the Bank,
•,:i • •• ,111. given them, for collecting, receiving,
sin ; s. • s..:s st,e. Bank tokens.
.•, • wrist RH° a Cimunitte of Supply.
st•AMSH 1:11L.1.1%.
: • as 'I., • cacti moved, the a sum not exceeding
• • Wed to his Majesty. for the purpose of giving

THE NATIONAL EEGISTER.

etiect i cthe treaty with the Spanish Government for the abo.
!Ilion of the Slave Trade, which, after some observations ft um
Mr. Lyttletun, Mr. Robinson, Mr. Wilberforce, &c., was
arced to.

SECRET COMMITTEE.
Mr. FAZAX Eimer' rose to move an instruction to the Secret ,I
Committee, to engire and report what steps bad been taken in
respect of the persons employed as spies. The Hon. Gentle- •
man professed himiell to be perfectly independent of party,
and to be actuated by a desire alone to find out the promoters
of thecoufederated assemblies, without implicating any one, I
either Oliver, or any body else. The Habeas Corpus Act had
been suspended, numbers of persons were imprisoned. and
treated most harshly ; the gads crowded ; and he would ask,
was it right that nothing tending to prosecute those wino had
exceeded their commissions should he shewn by Ministcis ?
It had heenseen that most of the imprisoned men were dis-
charged rapidly without trial. Not, however, wishing to say
any thing against the employment of. spies, he should abstain
from so doing, but would content himself a ith sating bunt
great caution ought to be used in respect to the employment of
spies. He moved accordiiigly..
Mr. BATHURST complimented the Hon. Gentleman on the
manner in which he had stated his lotion; •to which he ob-
jected, on the ground, that the Committee had not decided
that any crime had been committed by them spies as they Were
called, and that the motion went to assume. The Right Hon.
Gentleman read the Report alluded to ; and assured the Hon.
Gentleman that no such steps had been taken. It was clear
that it would be impossible to detect designs of the descrip•
tion to which the motion referred without persons being em-
ployed to detect the conspirators, which persons must pre-
tend to have views similar with those of the conspirators, lie
defended the conduct of Oliver, who bad pi oceeded in his
career with a view to discover the ultimate object:of the con •
spirators, nd bad given them information to induce the con-
spirators 16 consider him as a friend. Government knew of
no misconduct in that person. His instructions were to com-
municate the results of his information to the :Magistrates from
time to time. His saying to the conspirators that there were
seventy thousand persons united in Londoh in support of their
came, was to hill suspicion ; because they would not have eu-
tertnined him if they had thought his object was to give
notice of their conduct to the Government. Those who were
objects of the prosecution had turned round and charged ()fi-
ver with having in>tigated them to commit treason ; when in
fact, he found them acting, with hostility to the Government,
and he considered it his duty to expose that hostility in order
to prevent the greatest of evils which could happen to the
country. If it was true that a conspiracy existed, it was de-
tected by those employed by Government. With respect to
this man Oliver) having given inforinntiiiii to Government,
that was certainly no crime. or was his having mingled with
the disaffected, and thus obtained knowledge of their inten-
tions, to he imputed to him as a crime. One thing lie would
assure the Hon. Gentleman, and that was, that not a single

individual had ever been apprehended on the information of
Oliver. With respect to the trials at Derby, one (tithe per-
sons who suffered there was represented as has lug Said, that
he was brought to the sittintioa in %Mali he wis by the Go-
vernment and Oliver- Now tb it representation, tilt was, as
roported, could not be correct, as Brandreth never saw Oliver
nor did Oliver give Government any iuturatatioti whatever on
the subject out of which the trials at Derby arn,e. lint I
Right lion. Gentleman coneln.led by opposing the motivu,
fur which, he considered. Ito Imindation had been laid.
Lord AIILTON could not divest hilueelt of the opinion that
it was the agents ol*Gost` It Omni, and pri.:eipally this min,
Oliver, that kept the conspiracy together, and raised the em-
bers of disaffertion into a flame. The Magistrates of the coun-
ty were ut the same opinion, for they were most anxious to
get bold, if possible, of the London Delegates. The Right
Gentleman had said that no person was apprehended on
the information of Oliver—perhaps not upon his legal infor-
mation ; but if his informatiuu led to the examination (dotter
persons, and on their inforinatian persons were afterwards
apprehended, they were iu fact appreheutleil un infirm:vitals
originally derived front Oliver.
Air. II volt. ttsT here said across the House, Oliver was not
in Derbyshire.
Lord MiLies--Oliver net in Derbyshire?
Mr. BATHURST—Not iu those parts which rose.
Lord MILTON would leave the !louse to judge of the Right
Hon. Gentleman's assertion. He must declare his opinion,
that the Constitution of the country had been suspended un-
necessarily. Ile vi ould not assert that Ministers bad nut been
misled by the imformation they had received. With respect
to the present Motion, lie could nut refrain, as a Member of
the Committee, from thanking his Hone:II-able Diem! for
brMaing forward this Motion, by acceding 10 Whiell, the
House would enable the Committee thermally to discharge
that duty to the Public,w Inch the House bad imposed oil
them.
Mr. C. GALANT said, that in order to induce the House to
adopt this Motion, and thereby to part (sum the usual and
established cent se, Gentlemen must make out a prinnalacie
case of more than ordinary delinquency on the part of Clove' ti •
meth, It was semewliat extraordinary, that w ith all the en
beenquit y vvitich hid institnied, no pi nua.tirric rave of that
(testi lotion had been made out. With respect to Oliver, it
was something extraordinary that all the cireinastatices ut
the meetings of the loth and 13111 of March were arranged
before Oliver made his appearance. And, a- far as regarded
the trials at Derby, if the deciatation of the influence which
divers acts bad had in producing the rams out of which these
trials arose was true, how was it tha ithe able counsel retained
for the prsoonets did not call him Such a measnre was the I
only one which could have given a chance of safety to the
prisoners.
Mr. BENNETT SIIOIIIII support the Niotion as considering it
a it at by .shish the sincel sty of Government %%mild he proved.
If this Alutien n.ts ie;ns, d, the refusal would prove, that the
appointment of the Cointnittee was what it hail ueeu described
to be—a (bile bran the pcoide. With respect to the tan.
ploy mem to spies by Government, he wmild not take on him-
himself to decide how far it was to be defended or not ; but
this he knew, the the narrative which had been detailed in
the !tense by an Honourable Friend of his, respecting the
employment of those spies at Manchester, had created an
rxuaordinary sensation up the conntry. The Honourable
Meunier then proceeded to detail the origin of Oliver's ex-
pedition into the comiti v, which the Honourable Emonet
said CUIIIIIIOIICCII Cl) the ittli of April; that he went tu Bir-
mingham, Leeds, :Manchester, where he represented himself
to various individuals as a person eogagtal in 1 lit cause of
Reform. The lion. Member then proceeded to tram. Oliver
to Nottingham, and said he world also prove to Ilie House
that Oliver had then at Derby. He would also sliew• the
Right Hon. Gentlemen that bete be saw Brandi-oi. lie
had-ail affidavit made by a prison to that etieets
Mr. BADIVRST.—" amt', name !"

Mr. BEN NETT had told the Right Hon. Gentleman he would
not mum:. He was, however, ready to produce the persons
24 evidence at any time. ••

•
Mr. WILBERFORCF: thought the House should reject this
Motion, became it was formed on a tithe assumption, timely ,
that theConimittee had declared atiopinion,that theinsurrt chins
had been occasioned by the arts awl insinuations of Oliver.
Now he. as a Member of the former Committee, begged dis-
tinctly to contradict this; all. he Committee intended to illy
was, that they were pessuadcd Oliver might know something
about it.

The Socicuroll GENERAL was ready to contend, that there
was nothing in that passage of the Report alluded to, which
attached such criminality to those persons as could be made
the subject orcaitninal prosecution. The passage iu question
did not impute that the spies were the original cause of the
insurrection, but on the contrary, decidedly stated that the
simultaneous rising had been agreed on long before those per-
-110114 %ere employed. With respect to the evidence to which
the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Bennet) had alluded, but
the names of whom he hail so carefully concealed, he doubted
it came from the most polluted source. The Honourable
Gentleman had fortunately dropped two or three names in
the commencement of his speech, which enabled the House
to form an opinion of the character of the evidence. He had
named Pendrill, now in America ; Stevens, now iu America ;
an! Mitchell, who hail been imprisoned on a charge of high
treason. (Loud cheering.) Gentlemen cheered ; and he knew
well, that, out of doors, a wan baying been charged with MO
treason added, with some, to his credit. But he would ask
whether within the House, he was not at liberty to call this A
polluted source. With respect to the non-production of Oli-
ver as a witnesQ, Government had been accused of producing
Castles as a witness to prove facts which he had promoted,
and to earn blood money. What would has e been said if
Oliver had been produced? NVould not the accusations have
been the same? The Honourable Gentleman, ill describing
the crime of the persons executed at Derby, had said—these
persona had been guilty of an illegal act. Was that the sub-
lime language in which die Honourable Gentleman vonld des-
cribe the crimes of persons guilty of high treason and murder.
The Learned Gentleman then proceeded at considerable
length to comment on the observations of Mr. Bennet, awl to
deltoid the conduct of Government in the course adopted by
them in conducting the prosecutions at Derby and in London.
He was loudly cheered throughout his speech.
Sir S. Restiesv supported the motion, and declared that
in his opinion, never 114,1 be heard a person inure unfairly
treated, in a Parliamentary point of view, than his Honour.
able Friend had been, in the observations made hytli Solici:

for General on the evidence his lienourable Friend had
alluded tt. Mitchell bad been mentioned by the solicitor
General, that Mitchell was one of the persons who Was COM-
milted by ;Ministers on a charge of treasonable purposes, and
berefitre the whole evidenc►, said the Solicitor General, came
flout a polluted source Aecording to this statement of the
Solicitor General's, it was only necessary that Gas et ;itent
sitoold commit an individual under a charge of high treason,
keep hint in prison some time and then discharge him with-
out trial, to render him mierot thy of credit ever atter.
Mr. CANNINt; cuudenned the manlier in which this goes.
tion was brought forward. Its only ohjeet he con,:eised was,
that Hououraute Gentlemen might be able to tell their con.
atitutents that they had done all they could to produce en-
,and it was nut their fault it' that enquiry was not go anted.
What would the Hume say when they heard that Gus eminent
11411 I eceived a report that the insurtection that had taken
place was not the consequence of watt of employmmt,
poverty, pr scarcity, or dearness but was a
consequence of, or pealieps, connected is tilt, the Meetings lu
Spafields ; and that notlitn4 less than a eimipttme overthrow
of our constitutional institutiuns was in the contemplation of
the agitatuts ? It' such a report had come front a simple Jus-
tice of Peace, and Government had not attended to it, what
would the House have said But what would the House say,
when he told them, that this Repot came from a Justice of
the react'; aye, limn a Master of Justices, as Lil:go calls
such a man—arum the Lord Lieutenant of the West Riding of
Yorkshire ! Upon the whole, he thought the House ectild not
hesitate in disposing of the motion of the Honourable Ge❑t.
us there was no ground for it.
Mr. TIERNE S was prepared to defend the motion as a most
correct one, and wai tented by strict Pa rliatnen ary usage.—
If an agent could not be punished, who acted unjustly be-
tween the parties, the law of this country was most grossly
iniAiderstood. But Government knew they Inuit nut touch,
a hair of Oliver's bead; and the object of this Motion was to
see how the Committee would deal with it.
Lord CASTLEREAGH could not avoid ails et ling to the ntfi.
davits introduced to the Honourable Oeutiemiiii,
,Mr. Beg_
net), which were fuun•ted on the grossest fieleeliouds and t a;-
enlisted to deceive the House.
Mr. Fat AKERLY replied, in the course of which he obsersi.d,
that the times were most momentous, and he could nut avoid
saying, that the country, it the pot sent system was to be pas.
sued, was on the eve or a great change in its political con-
stitution.
The House then divided—Ayes SS—Noes 111—Alajority
against the Motion 56.
'rho I louse adjourned at half pest two o'clock.
R,11411.

Lord Mturox presented a Vetitien from Sheffield respect_
the tuaniti.natire of cast iron, &C. r lilill %%AS la cal ed to 4

LEATHER TRADE.

Lord AI.TnORPK moved I. (I I' various accounts respecting
the leather trade.— Ord veil.
S1:1)1)1.1 COM ITTE.

On the order ottlie day on the Giant to Spain 0(.009301.
Nlr. CUCAVEN !Mid, he thought this was .1 pliglClr opporlibility
t!t otter sows further ouservations as In the Data tokens.
had heard it said, that the tokens might be sent up to
town from the connity, ;Ind I per cent. might oe had upon
thrill. It was s.tid. that they were wanted to pay gold. got
it was to be considered whether the gold was intended
to go out of the kingdom, and win ;her that was to be the
reason for continuing the restriction. Great incouvernenre
would arise td'iliaily of the lower order woo could hot keep
the tokens. There were in:rsosts passing about the country
who would give t rer cent for them. 'The 1(a elution oft c
C ttttt mittee for tilt Giant was.agreed to.
The CHAYeet.Loe of the LietitmuLdt moved the other
orders of the day.
(For theremairder of Ike Parlismentarti, see C:c Se.rth Paget

A few day' since 411 aged man ‘11:1A seen sitting, nearly the
%% !wit ul the d.iV, on the sit ps of .1 door to \S
St base's, and in tke.evening a yonng man Who attempted
to move him, perceiving he vsas in an expirin.g state, fur
%Ilion arrival it W. ti 111111:d his
last.

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