The Sun.
London, England, 1855-08-01 00:00:00

!PRE RUNT, LONDoNt WEDNESDAY PVENINti, AUGrEIT It 1883,

of money voted for conducting the commissariat depset-
mont.
Mr. A. STAFFORD also compli.ined of the want of
information on this subject, aid he rejoiced the right
hon. gentleman had drawn attention to it.
Colonel DUNNE raid he believel he expressed the
universal feelings cf military men, when he said there
was a general alarm among them at the state of disor-
ganisation (.f all our military departments.
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER said it
was his wish, and the wish of the Government, to give
every information on these subjects. The whole busi-
ness of the Treasury was now to provide for the
wants of the military and other departments con-
nected with the war. As to the Commissariat,
undoubtedly the expenditure now was very large ; but
no pains or expense had been spared to provide for the
army both in the field and in hospital ; at the same time
an expenditure, at such a distance as our army was now,
could not be so closely controlled as if the army was at
home, but the skill and attention of competent persons
were directed to the subject.
Mr. F. BARING thought it would be the wiser
course to hold the Government responsible for making
successful arrangements, and if they did not do so, to
call them to account for doing so in another session. As
to the transfer of the Commissariat Department to that
of the War, he thought the Treasury had gone too far,
and the Chancellor of the Exchequer should be
called upon to revise that minir e. He thought
in future the house and the country ought to, be
assured that all accounts were put in a proper state,
and that could only be done by making regulations that
would have a far greater check than the minute of the
Lords of the Treasury he had referred to.
Mr. HENLEY said that the statement of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer was anything but consoling.
The supplementary estimates were very large, and he
thought the house was entitled to have more informa-
tion on the subject.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated
that when the supplementary estimates were put before
the house he would state how he proposed te meet them.
He had on a previous occasion allowed a margin of no
less than 3,000,0001. to meet the supplementary esti-
mates.

a committee of the House of Lords had recommended a
plan which would require a legielativ© enacment in a
future se;sion. C usequently, with regard to England,
nothing would be done during the present year, and no
expense would be incurred. As t Scotland, the plan
resorted to la 4 year had been eminently euccessfob reel
t would be continued ; and also with regard to Ireland,
he existing system, which was satisfactory in its result,,
would be. adoered to.
After a few words from Mr. TuonNELY,
Mr. ALCOCK expressed his regret that we had been
so long without any system of collecting agricultural
tatistics in England.
Mr. STAFFORD observed that 4,0001. was included
in this vote fer collecting the agricultural statistics of
England. If it was not to be expended, why vote it ?
Mr. BOUVERIE repeated that the _estimate was
framed under the supposition that the system in opera-
tion last year in regard to England would be continued.
The money would net be spent though it might be voted.
Colonel NORTH thought it should be made impera-
tive on the growers to furnish the necessary returns.
Mr. BOUVERIE replied that that was in effect the
recommendation of the Lords committee, but to enforce
Pt would require an act of Perliatuent.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the next ‘ete, 14,0001. for salaries and expenses of
the Board of Fisheries in Scotland.
Mr. WILLIAMS considered the continuance of this
vote in the estimates a gross job. The plea upon which
it was first brought forward —viz., distress in the High-
lands and islands of Scetland—no longer existed ; and
how places of commercial importance and wealth like
Leith, Glasgow, and Greenock could have the face to
come to the public taxes for money to promote their
fisheries he could not understand.
Mr. J. WILSON admitted that the subject was one
that den rued consideration, and promised that the atten-
tion of the Government should be directed to it. He
thought it would not be desirable to withdraw the money
altogether from Scotland, but conceived that it might
be applied to a more useful purpose.
Mr. LABOUCHERE protested against the doctrine
of the Secretary for the Treasury, that it the money was
not wanted for the object for which it was originally
granted, viz., the promotion of the Scotch fisheries, that
it must be necessarily voted and applied to some other
purpose for the benefit of Scotland.
Mr. DUNCAN, as a Scotch member, must admit that
this, and every other branch of trade in Scotland, ought
to stand upon its own footing, and not come for assist-
ance to the public taxes. (Hear.) . .

Sir J. ANDERSON agreed entirely with his hon.
friend, and believed that there was not a Scotchma❑ in
the house who wished to see au estimate like this. The
system ought to cease entirely.
Mr. SPOONER inquired how it came that there were
three new appointments, namely, tavo supernurnary offi-
cers and another superintendent?
Mr. WILSON said that the board had i.nder its super-
vision the piers of a large portion of the fishing ports of
Scotland, and he supposed that the appointment of these
officers was necessitated by the duties connected with
the piers. It had Leen thought that this vote might be
male to apply to other objects, such as schools of design
in Scotland ; but the officers, who had been appointed
for life, could not be deprived of their retiring allowances,
and the present vote would be required for that purpose.
After a few words from Sir G. PECRELL and Captain
SCOBELL, .

Mr. W. WILLIAMS urged that this vote ought to
be withdrawn. The discovery of this sum was one of
the fruits of the excellent measure introduced by Mr.
Gladstone two years ago. It as ad to be formerly charged
on tha Cunsolidated Fund, acid. no one knew anything
of if. (No, no )
Mr. JAMES M`G-REGOR urged that the vote should
be postponed till some better ex: planation was given with
regard to it.
Lord P..-ILMERSTON said Ids hon. friend had given
sufficient reasons why the vote should be agreed to this
year, while the Government had it under consideration.
Mr. GLADSTONE adinitt.?,d the vote could not be
withdrawn, 'out urged that in any new arrangement no
vested interest should be retaKu ed, as, greatly to their
honour, many Scotch members, wished the matter to be
considtred on its own merits.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS said this wag the first time he
had seen the vote. and he supix.sed it was brought for-
ward uni'er Mr. Gladstone's A . .

Lord DUNCAN assured th hon. member that the
vote had already been before VAe house, and had often
been di,cussed.
The vote was then agreed to.
09!, the vote of 5,0001. for the 'Commissioners of High-
land ll.,ads and Bridges. _

Lord J. MANNERS asks, I why the vote for the
Board of Manufactures, Scotian d , was passed over ?
It was stated that it had alfea been passed.
Mr. W. WI LLIANIS :aid it v :as absurd to have such
a board. With regard to land roads and bridges,
the government ought to pledge themselves to consider
this vote, with a view to its disco ntinuance.
Mr. BLACKBURN did not ; see why such votes
should be objected to for Scotland , when they had similar
ones for England, for they bad j t Ist passed one for Chel-
sea Bridge. At the same time, he wanted to see the
whole of them done away.
Mr. F. SCULLY said if such. votes were granted to
Scotland, why were they not gri aited to Ireland ? He
should like some expianation,
Mr. WILSON said that the t)rigin of this vote was
the formation of military and otl to r roads in tho High-
lands fur public purposes. Th. ?: hon. membew (Mr.
Scully) seemed to forget the large urns which had been
spent on the road to Holyhead ano'., on the Menai Bridge
to facilitate communication with Ire 'and. The vote was
for the purpose of maintaining road 3 in the Highlands,
which would not otherwise be kept • up, and which were
often useful for public purposes. ..ny new roads were
made and kept up by the counties.
After a further conversation, the s .ote was agreed to.
The vote of 12,0001., for bounty on , slaves tied tonnage
bounty on slave vessels captured, was agreed to.
68,5001. for difference of dues pay Et tie by British or
foreign vessels under treaties of recipr o city, snd 17,8501.
for remuneration to revising barriste. t 5,
were agreed to
after a short discussion.
On the vote of 3, 800 1. for salaries of i o spestors and ex-
penses of corn returns,
Mr. WISE said that the corn retur t •s Jere very in-
complete, and he asked the Vice-Presid .e nt of the Board
of Trade if he had received any commun i cations with re-
ference to those returns? An immense tiusntity of corn
was sold without any return being made • at all.
Mr. BOUVERIE said no doubt the i *terns were in-
complete and unsatisfactory, much corn b &Log sold which
was not returned, and what was return ed being often
returned twice over. It was proposed— if the recom-
mendation of the Lords' committee with re
!ard to a sys-
tem of agricultural statistics was; adopted-• -to combine
the corn returns with them.

I to.
T 3,161(. votefo
rw
quarantine
largarnetein
e agreedto.
xpensen 'was agre
The vote of 6,759/. for erectirqg an .1 farm ishing new
consular offices, British seamen's. h.ospital, aald prison at
Co stanin eple was agreed to.
On the vote for 4,5781. for 1.7 - rniture an3' fittings' for
the British ainba,sadors at Conf. kntinople,
Mr. WISE said that sums fc r this purpose, to the
amount of 80,0001. had been ah •( •ady voted. He wished
to know whether this was really the last vote that would
be required for this purpose
Mr. WILSON believed th a t this would be the last'
vote of a permanent kind. (E k. laugh.) It was partly
composed of items which wou continually recur, be-
cause it included the wage a of servants required to
watch over the safety of the buil, ling, and also for casual
repairs. But this completed tt e furnishing and fitting
of the house.
The vote was agreed to.
A vote of 1,550/. for the police of Om Isle of Man was
agreed to.
On a vote of 90,000/. for Coe erectio It of new offices
for the Secretary of State for Foreign A. sE'airs,
Mr. J. BELL asked whether in ace ording this vote
the louse was to be considered bound to an expenditure
of above 500,0001., recommended by a cos mittee which
had only sat once, and had had no detaihsd plans before
them.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH—In consequ coca of the de-
lapida•• ed stare of Downing-street, the Gox redrinnent came
to the conclusion that it s-..as necessary to rebuild the
whole street. Plans were therefore prep. i rod for that
purpose. The house would not by this vc to be pledged
to rebuild the whole street, but merely to the rebuilding
of the Foreign-office, which was in a v ry dangerous
state. Indeed, it was impossible to use the e upper rooms.
The scheme to which reference had been •c wade was one
of a much more extensive character, and embraced ar-
rangements for pr ovidin.4-new offices for the I whole of the
public departmen• ts. That was now viudi 3r the careful
consideration of t he Goveantnent.
• -

---------
Mr.- BANKEi 1 thought that 90,0001. s 4 'as too large a I
sum for the houst to vote at the present tin t, e. He believed
the Foreign-offi c e might be put into a t e nantable state
fir a much smaller suns. There were m any parts of the
scheme which embraced the provision c f fine rooms in
which the Cabi Det Ministers might entt trtain foreigners
and others. Mo wt of our Cabinet Ministers had large houses
of their own, wi-Liich were most liberally thrown open to
their friends arid. foreigners of distincti oil ; butt he did
.
not think that this was the time for uud; 3 (taking expen-
diture merfily for purposes of show and el stentation.
Sir F. BARINC'r would not object to f J its vote if it was
nee, scary for the 'purpose of securing laya 1 in the neigh-
bourhood of the present public offices, PE •cause it was de-
sirable that my new offices erected shoulc Ibe built in the
same ; But he objected to vote. a s. urn for building
in the present year. There were, beside 3, many parts of
the plan on w bids it was proposed t o dld of which he
disapproved. He quite agreed: witb . the Tight hon. gentle-
mani opposite in thinking that tw as undesirable to pro-
vide State ay artments for the M inisters. He had met
many foreign .ers who were favor Lrably struck: with the
simplicity wi th which matters we ire conducted here. and
he was him ;elf of that old-fast Lioned opinion. (Elear,
arHe ' ;,thought that before the house agreed to be-
gin builLlin g- on the plans wh: ich the Government had
adopted, tl ,f ;y should have a fr dl examination of them,
and be q' ti to satisfied that tEey were the, best, be-
fore they c ,ommitted themselves to them. For if they
i
agreed t o this vote, they would n. fact do so. He thought
that it d not been shown that it was abaol ately neces-
sary ti build at all now. And he was certainl yof opinion
he Government were censnri able in not b ringing this
that
ub
/et before the house at an earner period of the session,
very i b
whe tie house might have had an opportmaity of exae
lab jag the subject. lie should propose to reds see the vote
to 00( the sum needed to secure the land required for
W eb itg-
Lor PALMERSTON said that
.k.voreign- office now
‘Pes' in a very s
CO]sis, i
of four small houses in the wor st possible condi-
t i
the house vas
dan-
gerous
riondition, insomuch that the prii sting press was
7e
-arranged walls
and
for
oblig ill
ed obe placed floorspubii
public business,
proppedand t
ss
in the cellar, and bool :a which ought,
for the ci nvenience of the office, to be place din the upper
rooms wee, s forced to be deposited inthe group ci floors. It was
therefore , .jeutly necessary to provide bettor accommoda-
tion. it net intended, as had bean said, to provide State
apartment a for the Alinisters. All that was :oposed was to
have two 3 MOWS of
large size, that might I.r a available on

occasions when Ministers were required by their office to
give large dinners. 'The Foreign Minister, fur instance,
was obliged to give a large dinner on the birthday of the
Sovereign. There were very few Louses in London which
contained rooms sufficiently largo to accommodate those
whom the Mini:ter was expected to invite on that occasion.
These rooms would also be useful for public purposes at
other titn,s of the year. However, he thought it was hut
reasonable that the house should have further opportunity
of consideration before a plan of considerable magnitude
was adopted ; that the Government should take Parliament
into partnership, and that they should have a limited lia-
bility in the responsibility. (Hear, hear, . and a laugh.)
Ile was quite ready to take 30,0001. to secure the land that
it was essential to purchase at once, and 10,0001. to cover
such incidental repairs and temporary arrangements as
were necessary for the public service. When Parliament
met next session a committee should be appointed to con-
sider the plan.
The vote was then agreed to.
A vote of 9,001/. for the expenses of the Irish census was
agreed to.
On the vote of 52,000/. for the expenses of medals dis-
tributed to soldiers who had served- in the Crimea,
Mr. STAFFORD wished to know what steps had been
taken for the speedy distribution of these medals, which
had been so long delayed ? Ho thought the cost of the
medals was much larger than might have been anticipated.
Mr. WILSON said he would answer the question of the
hoe. gentleman upon a future occasion.
Captain SCOBELL hoped that the new order of merit
would include all grades in the army and navy, and would
be confined to the two services.
The vote was agreed to.
GS,I ill. was voted as compensation under the United
States mixed commission.
The foil .wing votes were also agreed to :-
17,009/ for the relief of distressed British seamen abroad.
3,0091. for defraying the expenses of a gallery of art in
Dublin.
On the vote of 9,9271. for the expenses of the Metropoli-
tan Interment Acts,
Mr. PELLATT called attention to the want of new
burial grounds, in lien of those which had been closed.
Mr. BLACKBURN saw no reason why the expenses of
a local act should be paid out of the national revenue.
Mr. WILSON said the house was responsible for the
expenses of the machinery it had put in motion.
Lord PALM Ia'RSTON said the expenses had been in-
curred in closing burial grounds within the metropolis—a
proceeding which had entailed considerable cost upon the
various parishes.
The vete was then agreed to.
5,0001. was voted for the completion of the new galleries
of art in Edinburgh.
On the vote for 40,0001. to promote civilisation and edu-
cation among the natives of South Africa,
Mr. W. WILLIAMS objected to the vote, on the ground
that it was not fair to tax the people of England for such a
purpose.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said the vote was an experi-
ment. and its object was to endeavour, at a small expense,
to put an end to Kafir wars and our vast military expendi-
ture in connection with South Africa. The last Kafir war
cost about one million per annum, and our annual military
expenditure amounted to between 460,0 /01. and 500,0001.
The vote had been suggested by Sir G. Grey, the governor
of the colony, and it was of the utmost importance that
the experiment should be fairly tried.
Mr. HIND LEY had no hope that the experiment would
boattended with success, unless the English colonists treated
th e natives much better than they had hitherto done.
Captain SCOBELL was convinced that the 40,000/. was
necessary, but thought the colonies should bear a due share
of the burden. They should at least pay one-third of the
money.
M-es R. PFIILLIMORE supported the vote.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said the defence of the Cape fron-
tiers should be entrusted to the colonists themselves.
Mr. OTWAY moved that the chairman report progress,
for the purpose of complaining of Mr. Wilson having passed
the vote for the National Gallery in the forenoon sitting in
the fs,ce of an arrangement that it should be taken at six
o'clock in the evening.
Mr. WILSON stated that the vote was taken, not in the
forenoon sittinz, but after six o'clock.
Mr. OT WAY said that, having been desirous of making
some remarks upon the vote, he attended in his place at
six o'clock, when he certainly did not hear the vote read
from the chair.
Mr. WILSON remarked that he called particular atten-
tion to the vote by stating that it had been deferred from
a former sitting of the house.
The motion for reporting progress was then withdrawn,
and the vote agreed to.
On the vote of 5,8001. for the purchase of ground with
the view of providing au improved entrance from Pall-mall
to the Green-park,
Dr. MICHELL objected to the vote, thinking the ex-
penditure ought to have been provide i. for in the Metropo-
litan Board of Works Bill. Tne house had already voted
too much money for the adornment of the metropolis.
Mr. CUBITT defended the vote, which was agreed to.
3,0001. was voted to defray a portion of the expenses
of the new bridge at Inverness.
On the vote of 11,0001. for the purchase of the remain-
ing term of the lease of Buckingham House, Pall mall,
Mr. BANKES said he thought this expenditure was a
great loss to the public, and asked whether it was intended
to adapt the house to the public service, and also whether
it was intended to be permanent?
Lord PALMERSTON said this vote was intended as a
step towards the accomplishment of the design of having all
the offices of the War Department as near each other as
possible, it being impossible to have them all under one
roof. This came of the recent consolidation of the War
Departments under the Secretary of State for War. Great
inconvenience was caused by some of those offices being at
Woolwich, and it would be of great advantage to the pub-
lic service to bring them within reach of the chief of the
department to which they belonged. No doubt the site
was an expensive one, but then offices must be got in the
quarter of the town in which Buckingham House was.
Should any future arrangements be made which would
leave Buckingham House at their disposal, it would of
course be possible for the house to take what course they
pleased with respect to it. -
In answer to Mr. WILLIAMS,
Mr. WILSON said that there were 30 years of the
lease unexpired.
The vote was agreed to.
A vote of 3,718/. was agreed to for the balance due for
the erection of bridges at iVindsor.
On the vote of 10,0001. to the discoverers of the north-
west passage,
Mr. OTWAY proposed that it should be distinctly
stated that one-half the money was for Captain M'Clure,
and the other half for the ()dicers and crew of the ship
Investigator.
Captain SCOBELL said the feeling of the committee
(of which he was a member) was that a reward should be
given to every man, even to the foreigners, convected with
the successful expedition. One half the money was ad-
vised to be given to Captain M'Clure, because it was to
his consummate skill and judgment, displayed during a
period of some years, that the expedition owed its safety.
Mr. F. SCULLY wished to know why Captain M'Clure
had not already received the promised reward of 29,000/.
for the discovery of the north-west passage?
Mr. BUTT, having passed a panegyric on Captain
M`Clure for his invaluable services, said the reward of
20,000/. was offered before any part of the Arctic regions
was discovered. Then the reward stipulated for the dis-
covery ship being brought through, and Captain M.`Clure
had not only not brought his ship through, but he had de-
monstrates!, in his (Mr, Butt's) opinion, that no ship ever
could be brought through. (A. laugh.)
The vote was then agreed to, as was also a vote of 8001.
for the erection, at Greenwich, of a monument to Sir John
Franklin and the officers and men who perished with him.
SUPPLEMENTARY NAVAL ESTIMATES.
Sir C. WOOD then rose to propose the supplementary
naval estimates for the present year. The items of which
those estimates were composed consisted, with one excep-
tion, of additions to expenditure entirely caused by de-
mands produced by the war in which the country was en-
gaged. The first of those additions related to the stock in
hand in the different yards, which was falling short, and
which it was desirable to keep up to a proper amount. In
like manner it was absolutely necessary to provide some
means by which her Majesty's ships engaged in the Black
Sea might receive at Constantinople the repairs of which
they stood in need, and it was, therefore, proposed (as we
understood) to stat'on some naval artificers there for the
present. The second head was that of naval stores. The
principal demand was for copper and for hemp. Our de-
mand for hemp had hitherto been supplied by Russia, but
he was happy to say that other sources were now open to
us, which promised to be extremely good hereafter, and
which would, at any rate, compete with the supplies from
ussia. (Hear.) The Italian seed had been found of very
good quality, and Government had latterly been offered is
supply from Hungary, and it was thought desirable that
the area from which the supply was brought should be
as Large as possible. The item for standing contracts was
the last head in the estimates. The house would easily con-
ceive that they had at present an increased demand for
articles of various descriptions. The expenditure upon
anchors, for instance, was greater during the last three
months than it was for the six months ending September
last. As to the medical stores, the greater part of the
vote had been expended in providing beds and other
fittings for the hospitals. The sum now asked for might
appear to some excessive, but it had been judged better to
ask a sum which would be sure to be on the safe ride.
There was also a small sum asked to be given as a reward
to certain seamen for the capture of a small vessel. One
large item, it would bo seen, was for the building of addi-
tional gunboats During the last year the right hon. geetle-
men who preceded him in office (Sir J. Graham) built ro
less than six of those gunboats of a very large description,
which had since been employed to the very best advan-
tage in the capture of Kertch, and on various other oc-
casions in the Black Sea. The construction of vessels of
that kind hail not been discontinued since last year,
but he thought they could not do less than double their
present number of them. Our operations required the
services of a great number of such vessels, drawing little
water and carrying large numbers of men ; and it was his
(Sir C. Wood's) opinion, that in all future warfare they
would occupy a much greater place than heretofore. They
were certainly the most valuable additions which could be
made to the naval forces of the country, and for the con-
structing of them and their machinery, &c., there would
be included in the estimates a vote of 556,0001.
On the vote of 10,0001. for wages to additional artificers
to be employed in her Majesty's naval establishments at
home,
Mr. FRENCH had no wish to offer any objection to this
note, but he wanted to know why the services of science
were not more called into request for the purposes of this
war. There were for instance the plansof Lord Dundonald,
which he could not help feeling had been neglected to the
great injury of the country. These plans had been sub-
mitted to Sir Charles Napier, who had since pledged
that they would accomplish all that the noble lord wished
to undertake. Well, now, what was it that the noble lord
was prepared to do ? Why, it was to destroy all the Rus-
sian foe tresses in the Baltic if the Government would only
advance him 200,0001. for the purpose. The country never
would consider the Government in earnest about the war
so long as they neglected such desirable plans as these.
Sir G. PECHELL understood that the plans of Lord
Dundonald would be more dangerous to persons using them
than the enemy against whom they might be brought to
bear. He did not, however, object to the use of gunboats,
but the admirals in command should be cautious not to
allow them to get into action, except under the cover of
larger ships.
Capt. SCOBELL wished to offer a few opinions upon the
manner of carrying on the war in a naval point of view. So
long as we had the command of the sea ultimate success
must be certain, and therefore it was of the utmost impor-
tance that the right ships should be in the right place. The
class of ships we had sent to the Baltic were too large for
the sea ; they were more adapted to the Black teat thwe
the Baltic ; and he was not sorry to hear
were about to resort to the use of gun-boats of shaali(.l,ra,ft
of water. Passing from the Baltic to the BlacilicsiTinue7l:
thought there was force enough there to. a P
-veraccomplished
and he yet hoped to see something
in the Danube and on the Russian foul he was deeply im-
f the Black Sea.
With regard to Lord Dandonald's p a

pressed with its feasibility, and he hoped it would receive
the immediate attention of the Admiralty. Thome was
another plan to which he was anxious to direct the notice
of the Government. On ope'ations in the Sea of Azoif
had demonstrated thelity of small gun rafts, and the
plan to which he was re :erring had reference to the c,a,-
struetion of such rafts. It was a plan proposed by Lieut.-
General Wyvill, who had represented to him that by his
arrangement 60 or 70 of these rafts could be constructed
at less cost, perhaps, than a large-sized gun-boat, to
which they were greatly to be preferred. He was glad
to hear that some of the transports were coming home ;
hitherto there had been a want of system in the
management of that service, but he hoped the time was
coming when our transports would be kept in constant
work either going out or coming borne. tine word more
and he should have done. Why did not the Government
offer a bounty for sailors? Depend upon it, good sailors
were the cheapest in the end, and it was a short-sighted
economy which withheld the bounty. He hoped, th?re-
fore, the Admiralty would reconsider that matter.
Mr. W. S. LINDSAY was glad to hear that the Govern-
ment meditated the construction of more gun-boats, but,
at the same time, he must appeal to the Admiralty to give
a pledge that for the present our expenditure upon enor-
mous ships should cease. We had enough of large shipS in
the service, and money would be better spent upon gun-
boats. Another point upon which ho should bo glad to
hive information had reference to the floating batteries.
He wanted to know what they hail cost, and when they
would be ready to go to sea?
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said the country was in that position
that it had almost entirely to depend upon the Board of
Admiralty ; the navy had never disappointed the country,
and he hoped, now that the house had voted such enor-
mous sums of money, that everything would bo done to
insure the efficiency of the service. With regard to Lord
Dundonald's plans, ho thought thepublic would be less dis-
appointed with their failure than at any determination not
to put them to the test.
Admiral BERKELEY defended the past policy of the
Board of Admiralty in building large ships, which had
enabled us for nearly two years to retain possession of the
Black Sea and the Baltic. At the same time everything
would be done to expedite the construction of gun-boats,
but at present there was great difficulty in obtaining ship:
wrights. _

The vote was then agreed to, as was also avote of 3,0001.
for the wages of artificers employed in the navy stations
abroad.

On the vote for 163,665/. for the building and repair of
ships, &c.,
Sir G. TYLER asked what the floating batteries had
cost, and whether their efficiency had been fully tested ?
Sir C. WOOD said they had cost 50,0001. each, they had
been tested at Portsmouth, and sofar they had been found
successful.

Mr. OT WAY observed that more than two years ago the
late Lord Duoley Stuart attempted to impress upon the
Government the importance and usefulness of small gun-
boats, but his advice was disregarded. However it was not
too late to turn over a new leaf, and he was glad to hear
that it was to be done.
The vote was then ngreed to.
Upon the vote of 61,5031. for the purchase of works, &c.
in the Bosphorus,
Sir C. WOOD explained that hitherto these works had
been rented, but it was found it would he cheaper to buy
them outright.
Mr. A. STAFFORD agreed with the right hon. gentle-
man that it would be cheaper.
Mr. W. S. LINDSAY wished the right hon. gentleman
the First Lord of the Admiralty would favour the house
with some information relative to the accident said to have
happened to the Marlborough on her launch. He was also
strongly impressed with the necessity of having a large
available force of small vessels, such as were requisite for
shallow waters, instead of the immense vessels which had
lately been constructed.
Sir C. WOOD said it was quite true that the Marl-
borough did hang a little in her progress towards the sea.
By the last telegraph despatch it was stated that the
lowest point of the tide had passed, and the vessel did not
appear strained or injured in any way whatever. How
the accident happened it was, of course, impossible for
him to explain. With regard to the class cf vessels to ba
constructed it would be wrong to confine their views to
small vessels, as we must have a reserve of large ships
ready in case of necessity, and the Russians had [Ohl a
fel midable fleet.
The vote was then agreed to.
A vote of ,000/. was agreed to for additional medical
stores.

A sum of 1,554,852/. was proposed for the estimated ex-
pense of the Transport Service, beyond the amount already
voted. up to the 31st March, 1350.
Sir CHARLES WOOD said the reason for the increased
vote was mainly the very largely increased service they
had been called upon to perform. Since the time
the estimates already voted were prepared, they had under-
taken, with their allies, to convoy a vastly increased force
of troops and stores. We had conveyed the Sardinian con-
tingent of 18,000 men to the seat of war, and by amicable
arrangement with the French Government we had rendered
them extensive assistance in the conveyance of troops. We
had likewise conveyed 4,001 Turks from Varna to Eupa-
trifle,. He bad stated on a former occasion that the number
of Iv rses thus conveyed was 2,5'30, but this was very much
understated, as it appeared from the official document he
held in his hand that the correct number was 11,000, and
of these only one horse had been injured. (Hear.) They
had moved since the beginning of the war from one place
to another, of English, French, Sardinians, end Turks, in
all 240,000 men and 32,000 horses. (Hear.) That was
the entire amount of service performed, and, on the whole,
with great efficiency and success. The organisation of the
Transport Board had now been brought into much greater
order, and an arrangement had been made which would
secure unity of control to the transport service in the
Black Sea. An admiral was to be sent out to Balaklava,
who would have the whole of this service under his single
control, and would be on the spot continually, in commu-
nication with the Commiin ler-in-Chief.
•

Mr. H. BRO WN must again complain of the very reck-
less
manner in which public money was expended on this
branch of the service, the conduct of which would always
be attendod with great disappointment and waeto uuloee the
principles upon which it was managed was altered. We hire d
transports at an extravagant rate, without takin g any security
that the service would be well performed. The root of the
evil was that we pail for time instead of for service, whereas
the French acted on a system entirely different, and had con-
sequentlytheir transport service performed in a manner much
superior. If such a system were adopted, we should find
that goods were delivered at their proper destinations in
time for the purposes for which they were wanted, and with-
out any confusion between Balaklava and Constantinople.
The Frenchtransports were taken up in the same manner as
our emigration vessels, for the service to be performed, and
they, besides, offered a bounty to the captain as well as
the owner for making the passage in a certain number of
days. To give an idea of the way in which we were called
upon to pay, it would be sufficient to state that the money
voted for this service would have taken all the soldiers and
materials that had been actually moved, to Australia and
back twice over, according to the scale laid down by the
emigration commissioners. There was a growing disap-
pointment with the manner in which the public service
was performed, and he could tell the right hon. baronet
that a crisis must come unless a change was made for the
better. As further instances of the ludicrous mistakes which
had been made, he might mention that heavy siege artil-
lery sent out to the Crimea had actually been brought back
to Portsmouth, and that the iron cylinders embarked at
Newcastle in a steamer, of which so much had been said,
bad never actually been landed before Sebastopol, but had
been kept afloat in the vessel, and moving about backwards
and forwards in the Black Sea.
Mr. W. S. LINDSAY was sorry to find that there had
been very little improvement in this department, and must
express his conviction that it would never be brought into
a satisfactory condition until they had a single competent
head responsible for its control and management, instead of
a board, with a sufficient staff employed under him. He
thought it an object of great importance that they should
have correct returns of the manner in which these vessels
were employed laid before them.
Mr. ST AF FORD said that having paid great attention to
the state of the transport service in the East, he had come
to the conclusion that it was impossible to arrive at a correct
knowledge of the real amount of service performed, and
losses sustained by mismanagement and delay, for the sim-
ple reason that those most concerned in it and who best
knew the facts were precisely the persons who had the
greatest interest in concealing them. He wished very much
to know whether the Government had considered the pro-
priety of placing the transport service under the immediate
control of the Minister of War, in conformity with the opi-
nion expressed by the Duke of Newcastle in his evidence
before the Sebastopol committee. He also wished to have
some information with respect to the present arrangement
for the transport of sick across the Black Sea, and whether
sufficient provision had been made of hospital accommoda-
tion on the passage. He could not, on the whole, congra-
tulate the Government on the state of our soldiers arriving
from the East, and wished much to know whether any
measures were being taken to improve the arrangements
for their reception, and provide additional medical com-
forts and conveniences ?
Sir C. WOOD had not the least hesitation in telling the
right hon. gentleman that he did not agree with the Duke
of Newcastle in the opinion he had given relative to plac-
ing the management of the transport service exclusively
under the direction of the Minister of War. With regard
to the transport of sick in the Black Sea, the attention of
Government had been given to the matter, and every means
taken to provide the best hospital accommodation on board
the ships for the sick on their passage, as well as to secure
the attendance of a military officer at their embarkation and
debarkation, to see that the service was properly conducted.
With regard to the hospital ships, there were now four
vessels employed in conveying invalids from the Crimea
to Scutari, and he had heard no complaints whatever as
to the working of the system now in existence there.
Sir G. TYLER said that from what he had seen of the
present transport board, and the mode in which it per-
formed its business, he had no hesitation in saying that
Capt. Milne, who was at the head of that board, was most
admirably adapted for the discharge of his duties. (Hear.)
He thought there was now no reason to complain of the
mode in which the business of the transport board was
conducted. (Hear.)
Captain SCOBELL could not conceive how it was pos-
sible for the transport board to work harmoniously and
effectively as at present constituted.
The vote was then agreed to.
A sum of 755,2351. was next voted for the expenses of
the packet service.
The Chairman then reported progress.
THE TURKISH LOAN BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed, without re-
mark from any hon. member.
The Customs Laws Consolidation Bill was read a third
time and passed.
The Ledbury Prebend Bill was also read
and passed. solidation
The Customs Tariff Act Amendment and Con a
reed to.
Bill was further considered, and the am?ndruentsci agreed to.
Bill was further considered, and the amendmCd through
Bill passe
The Turnpike Acts Continuance
committee. a third time
sye throughdMr.
Peel
committee, with some amendments, propo
The Militia Ballot Suspension Bill also
the Under Secretary at War.
ndments, was
sepdasb
brought
The report on this bill, lun• t d
to be prin e .
up and considered, and ordered
ISLANteDreSd ANDint
LIMITED LIABILITY BILL.
PRANCE)
BILL.
FISHERIES
On the motion for going into on. this
bill,
(BRITISH
Sir G. PECHELL called attention of the house to
of the convention en
the naturebetween
try and France on the subject of the this
country fisheries. The
bill would interfere to it very
presentgreat with extent •
th the
oyster fisheries, in which large classes of
this country wore interested. He had the fishermen of
the alliance between France and E no wish to weaken
intro-
duction of any cause of disagreementngland, by the intro-
tion—(a laugh)—but he v.ll, on tho oyster ques-
France in this matter mightu be
that the interests of
inter-
fering at all with the rights respected, without
moved that the bill be of the British fisherman. He
Mr. BERESFORD seconded referred to a select committee.
Sir C. BTJRRELL conded the motion.
also supported the motion.