The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-14 00:00:00

TUE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, JUNE 14 1855.

TILE ADMINISTRATIVE REFORM

ASSOCIATION.

The first meeting of this association was held last night
in Drury-lane Theatre. The admission was by tickets
only, and shortly after the doors were opened the house
was crowded in every part. Among the gentlemen on the
stage were the following :—The Earl of Milltown, the Hon.
F. H. F. Berkeley, M.P., Mr. James Bell, M.P., Mr. R
P. Collier, M.P., the Hon. H. B. Brand, M.P. Mr. B.
Oliveira, M.P., Mr. W. Michell, M.P., Mr. E.
Mr. F. French, M.P., Mr. A. Pellatt, M.P., Mr: R. Swift,
M.P., Mr. G. Bowyer, M.P., Mr. D. Jones, M.P., Mr. J.
F. Maguire, M.P. Goodman, M.P., Mr. W. Jackson,
M.P., Major Reed, M.P., Mr. K. J. Follett, M.P., Mr. R.
Carrie, M.P., Mr. A. H. Layard, M.P., Mr. W. J. Lind-
say, M.P., Mr. W. Tite, M.P., Mr. 0. J. Otway, M.P.,
Mr. F. C. H. Russell, M.P., Captain R. Kingscote,
Sir C. Shakerley, Sir C. Napier, Sir E. H. K.Lacon,3l.P.,
Mr. T. Alcock, 11. P., Mr. G. Dundee, M.P., Colonel
Watkins, M.P., Capt. Eastwiek, the Rev. J. B. Grey, Mr.
A. S. Ayrton, Mr. M. J. Higgins, Mr. W. J. Hall, Mr. J.
P. .
P. Gassiott, Mr. G. Bishop, jun., Mr. F. Bennoch, Mr. _
Harvey, Mr. J. Bell, Mr. J. E. J. Greene, M.P., Mr.
Roche, M.P., Mr. C. S. Butler, M.P., Mr. J. Gladstone,
the Earl of Lindsay, Major Rudd, Mr. G. Gladstone, Dr.
Brawn, Mr. W. Leaf, Mr. J. A. Nicholay, Mr. M. Travers,
Mr. Herbert Ingram, Dr. Hahnemann, Mr. W. L. Ogilby,
Mr. H. Batetnan, Mr. R. Henderson, Mr. Norman Wil-
kinson, Mr. J. Lupton' Mr. H. Hooton, Mr. W. A. Lyon,
Capt. Dawson, Mr. G. Moore, Mr. W. M. Thackeray, Mr.
W. Pritchard, Col. Freestun, M.P., the Hon. C. W. Qr.
Howard, Mr. Edwin James. Q.C., Mr. J. B. Bontems, Mr.
Jaffray, Mr. W. Edgar, jun., Dr. Sibson, F.R.S.' Mr, J.
M`Cann, Mr. G. Stagg, Mr. P. Graham, Mr. W. Lawson
(Willenhall), Mr. U. Marshall. Mr. C. George, Mr. W.
Jackson (Hartlepool). Mr. E. Swaine, Mr. Rainy, Mr. J.
Laurie, Mr. J. B. Allan, Mr. M. Hullah, Mr. W. Kirk,
Mr. Newmarch, Mr. J. Fairi©,
Dr. Hunter, Dr. B. Jones,
&c. &c.
The CHAIIIMA.N (Mr. MORLEY), in opening the proceed-
ings said that this meeting was held at the invitation of the
Administrative Reform Association, and it was desired
that all who responded to that invitation should listen $o
the addresses which would be delivered by those gentle-
men whose names had been announced ; that, as no resolu-
tions would be pat, therefore no amendments could be
moved, nor could there be any other speakers in addition
to those whose names had been mentioned, as they had de-
termined that the meeting should close at 10 o'clock. The
hon. gentleman, after alluding to the meeting at the Lon-
don Tavern and the committee formed on that occasion,
said that the best answer he could give to those who had
sho wnsome impatience that the association had not proceeded
rapidly enough was, that they had at present a pamphlet
prepared, entitled the " Devising Heads and Executive
Hands of the English Government, which, on the evi-
dence of men living and mixing among the abominations
complained of, from Lord J. Russell and Lord Lansdowne
down to some of the working men in the public depart-
ments, would show what this association was now demand-
ing, and which could not be read by thoughtful men with-
out leading to the determination that this reform ought to
be carried into effect. The association, it would be seen,
knew what was wanted, and in this pamphlet would he
found a cut and dried plan which would remedy the evils
complained of. The more they had thought on this ques-
tion the more they had become convinced that the real
evil lay with the people themselves. (Cheers.) This so-
ciety was prepared to say that the present system was as
good as the people had willed it to be, and that it was be-
cause there was a total absence of the recognition of indi-
vidual responsibility on the part of the people of England
that we were brought as a nation into the state in which
we now found ourselves. A variety of charges had
been brought against this association ; but, speaking
for himself,—and in so doing he believed he uttered the
sentiments of all connected with the society—(hear,
hear)—he was utterly unconscious of any motive which
he did not enjoy in common with millions of his
fellow-countrymen. They wanted a good, honest, and effi-
cient Government, and it was because they had not got
this that this society now called, with all solemnity and
earnestness, upon the people to determine that the present
state of things should no longer continue. (Cheers.) They
had been charged with attacking the aristocracy, but he
was unconscious of any such idea or intention. A member
of one of the noble families had said to a friend of his (the
chairman's), " If this movement goes on, what will be-
come of us younger sons?" (Laughter and cheers.) He
believed this was a question in the right solution of which
the people were deeply interested; but there was another
question he should like to ask the meeting—lf the state of
things of which they complained was not altered, what
would become of their younger sons? (Loud cheers.)
He had no desire to excite personal attacks or re-
marks ; but they had the power in their hands to re-
medy these evils, and it was a duty they owed to their
children to do so. The noblest thing that the younger sons
of the aristocracy could do worad be to render themselves
efficient for the public service. Then there would be no
objection to their taking even the lion's share of it. It was
not the intention of this society to enter upon any elabo-
rate system of agitation. They intended to do their best
to expose abuses; they intended to lay open to the pub-
lic gaze every department of the State—to be the depository
of all information respecting them ; and, having pointed
out the evil, if the people did not come to the determina-
tion that it should be done away with, then the members
of this society would retire into that privacy which was
more congenial to them with the feeling that they had done
their duty in making the present attempt. He appeared
before the meeting on this occasion, because he felt, adopt-
ing the language of the Times newspaper, that "the public
business of England was the private business of every in-
dividual," and because he believed the House of Commons
had been unfaithful to the people in this matter. (Cheers.)
England occupied a lower position in the public opinion of
Europe than it had done five years ago. What was the
. reason for this ? This country had in it all the essen-
tial elements of strength and progress—a population at-
tached to order, wealth, industry, enterprise, and a
healthy morality equal to that of any other nation. But.
they had been deceived by those to whom they had in-
trusted great responsibility, and it was right that they
should now seek out the causes of their disasters, and de-
termine, by God's help, that they should be pat a stop to.
(Cheers.) This was no mere war movement ; the neces-
sity for this reform was felt before the war began, and it
would be as argent after the war was over. The only
true theory of reform was this—they ought to seek to have
less rather than more government, and in dealing with
departmental reform they might to see how the depart-
men to could be lessened instead of increased. The hon.
gentlemen then referred to the various offices which had
been held by Lord John Russell, Sir G. Grey, Sir Charles
Wood, and Earl Granville, and said that, whatever
might be their talents, it was utterly impossible that
they could have been fitted to discharge the various
offices to which they had been appointed. Ho desired that
the offices of the State should be thrown open to public
competition, for he believed that every man possessed of
talent was sent into the wend to employ that talent for
the benefit of his fellow-men; and that any barrier which
was pat in the way of his so doing either by the Legisla-
tive or custom was unnatural and impious. He believed
that the present House of Commons had shown itself
more subservient to party than any that had preceded it.
The great contention between the two parties composing
the Louse seemed to be how the one could best get out and
the other bast keep in the Ministry. He should have had
no hope at all if he had not seen the formation of a party,
small though it might be at present, which was disposed to
take an independent course. (Cheers) If 101 men could be
induced to take a similar stand in the House of Commons
the work would be done, and it was with a vitssv of obtain-
ing these mon that the society now appealed to _the coun-
try. Ho believed that it was the business of the-Rouse of
Commons to check and control the Governmeng 'though
any person who had been in the habit of attendingtfieHouse
could not have failed to perceive that millions 0.1 money
were voted away and most important matters discussed
with almost empty benches. Attendance at the house
seemed to be regarded in the same category as a lounge in
Bond-street or an attendance at some evening assembly.
(Cheers.) If, however, Mr. Layard was about to be baited
—(loud cheers)—or some other exciting sc3ne was to ba
enacted, the galleries would be full of hon. members
anxious to enjoy the fun. (Cheers.) It wag a mere sham
to call the House of Commons the house of the people ;
neither the independence, the wealth, nor the intelligence
of the country was represented, and it was the duty of
every man to lend his assistance to the society in effecting
a change. (Cheers.) The Chairman then read the follow-
ing letters of apology
" Tavistock House, Monday, June 1.1, 1855.

" Dear Sir,—l regret that I cannot attend the meeting at
Drury-lane Theatre on Wednesday night, having a duty to
discharge elsewhere, to which I have been pledged for months.
" I have enrolled myself a member of the Administrative
Reform Association, because I believe it to be impossible for
England long to hold her place in the world, or long to be at
rest within herself, unless the present system of mismanaginr,
the public affairs and mis-spending the public money be al-
together changed ; because I daily see stronger and stronger
reason to entertain the conviction that it never will bo really
amended, in any essential respects, until a general determina-
tion that it must be is so expanded throughout the country
that it shall make itself plainly heard, even within the very
thick party walls of the House of Commons; because the
steady union of great numbers of earnest men is essential to
this result ; and because I hope the association w.ll effect such
union by honestly instructing the people as to their real
wrongs, and their peaceful meats of righting them for the
common good.
" Yon know that literature is my profession. It is at once
my business and my pleasure, and I shall never pass beyond
it. The association can render me no service but as one of
the community, and I join in no other character, and with
no other purpose.—Dear sir, faithfully yours,
" S. Morley, Esq." " CHARLES DICKENS.

" Eaton-place, June 11, 1855.

" Sir,— I regret very much that a previous engagement on
Wednesday evening next will prevent me from having the
pleasure of attending the meeting of the Administrative
Reform Association, at the Theatre Royal, Drury-lane, on
that day. The members of the association will be glad to
see, by an advertisement in the Times on Friday last, June
8, that the Minister of War, Lord Panmure, offers the
appointment to the Royal Artillery and Royal Engineers,
in the senior or practical class, in the Academy at Woolwich,
it, July next, to open competition among natural-born sub-
jects of her Majesty who, on or before the 25th Jane, msy
send
in certain certificates there mentioned, of ago, educa-
tion, &c,
"Woolwich Academy and the Artillery and Engineers are
thus opened to the best candidates whom the kingdom can furnishand the merits of the candidates are to be tested by
a competing examination, which is the fair way to try their
qualifications for this branch. of the public service.
main
" I remain, sir, your obedient servant,
To Samuel Browa,
"JAMES HEYWOOD.

sh for th"e Bs
ul a ,enede fe
so r
edi
tJhuen
me 70
v. e .
te sir ,—With every good wi
went which seeks for the establishment
' the right men in the right places,' ifeeof the principle of
quite in the wrong place in taking the
vary myself should be
the 13th instant to which you so kindly
iuviattethe meeting ou
My opinions can have little public Me.
et weight and
mode of expressing them would hardly be eons. Late , such a
nt with the
position of a country rector.
" The root of the evil is—patronage. So long ai, au i
tions, borough or county, can only be successfully Carrier
by retaining the solicitors of local influence this root retaai,
untouched. A lawyer, to have influence, must be the go_
between of the constituent and member. Men sell their votes
to push their own or the fortunes of their relatives, through
Government influence. The solicitor makes the purchase ;
he
theis
day
to do it. The member must pester the ' Hayter'
of
or ay for the patronage ho (wants ; the ' Hayter' must
giveit,
Ifchance to the Ministry the loss of a vote,
'aerobe •
think they
hers would not ask for places, or constituents
would be baifv,li this sort of lien on their member, your work
It is not ?ne.
this or that
a system to Government which is to blame, but
other, are pa
rte,. which three parts of society, in one shape or
~ That we owe to this
crushed our real power assYstem the evils that have nearly
a nation, I have no doubt. Nothing'

can check it but the highest pressure of public opinion, en-
forcing more real honesty alike in the constituency and in
those it returns to represent it.
" Did we once livo to see an honest House of Commons re-
turned by a really pure constituency there would be no fear
but the right men would be found for the right p' ces, It
won't be a politica_ millennium, however, of which I can dis-

cc,,ru uo w.ruiug sign.
" Yours truly,

" S. G. 0 ,BORNE."

No. 7, Hertford-street, May-fair, 9th Ju e, 1855.
" Sir-1 regret that it will not be iu my poser to avail
myself of the invitation with which you honour me—to attend
the meeting of the Administrative Reform Association,' at
Drury-lane, on Wednesday next; but, as I feel quite satisfied
that the association, with the guidance under which it fortu-
nately commences its labours, can only be product,ve of pub-
lic good, I have much pleasure in sending the enclosed cheque
for ten guineas, which will, as I perceive, constitute me a
member. " I am, sir, yours obediently,
" W. CLAY."
In calling upon Mr. Layard, M.P., to address the meeting, ho
(the chairman) felt constrained to say that the association as
an association had no representative in the House of Com-
mons; but he could assure Mr. Layard that if he pursued
with straightforwardness and earnestness the course of co-
operation he seemed to have cut oat for himself in the house,
he might rest assured he would have the weight, the influ-
ence, and the thought of England at his back. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. LAYARD, M.P., then presented himaelf to the
meeting, and was received with loud and repeated bursts
of cheering. He said, there was a very general and
deep-seated conviction abroad that the country was most
grievously misgoverned. That conviction was not limited
to a few, nor had it been hastily arrived at ; but on the
contrary it was very deep-seated, and the movement which
was the consequence of it, like most movements which had
taken place in the country, was essentially a movement
organised and carried on by those who, above all others,
represented the intelligence, wealth, and enterprise of
England. If he were called upon to divide England into two
parties as connected with this movement he should say that
on one side were all the men of common sense, of respecta-
bility, and wealth, who by their perseveranceand industry
hoped to raise a name for themselves and to do good to the
public service ; while on the other there was a small party
who claimed to themselves the monopoly of Government,
aid who lived, grew fat, and vegetated upon those corrup-
tions and evils which the association were determined, if
possible, to remove. Now, why wasthat meeting assembled
there that evening ? Most of the gentlemen present were es-
sentially men of business, and they bad only been induced
to leave their desks and studies by the conviction that there
were times when even their own comfort and personal ad-
vantage must give way to public considerations. However
dangerous agitation might be in general, there was a time
when agitation was necessary in order to correct a greater
evil than agitation itself could produce, and that time
had now arrived. (Hear.) The association felt that
while in this great country, during a long period of com-
paratively entire peace, all that concerned the private re-
lations and enterprises of the country had made a progress
unexampled in its history; that, while national monuments
such as had never been equalled in the greatest empires of
the world had arisen around us, and while everything was
moving and doing, the Government of the country alone
stood still. (Load cheers.) They had, therefore, thought
it better to come forward now and give an impetus and
movement to this feeling, rather than remain any longer
listless and regardless of it. He was not surprised that
many of the leading men of the city had not yet joined the
movement. There were many who did not like to join a
movement when there might be some doubt as to its ulti-
mate success, but they would doubtless join it as soon as it
had obtained a fairprospect of success. He trusted, however,
that when the day of triumph arrived it would be enjoyed
by those who had legitimately won it. (Cheers.) Now, he
believed that this country having been long at comparative
peace, opinions had been advocated and circulated by a
small party composed of men of great and distinguished
talent, called the "Peace-at-any-price party," which were
both un-English and dangerous. If all nations had slum-
bered like this, the arts of peace might have been alone
cultivated ; but, unfortunately, ambition never slumbered,
but was ready to take advantage of any circumstance
favourable to the realisation of any object it had in view.
The country, however, had been rudely awakened from its
dream. He believed that Providence never inflicted so
great a misery upon mankind as war, without leaving
some good object to be gained by it ; and he could not
but think that the present war, putting aside all
political objects, would lead to many beneficial
results, one of which was undoubtedly the establishment of
the Administrative Reform Association. If the war had
not taken place we should have slumbered too long. (Hear.)
But, putting aside all political considerations as to the
justice and necessity of the war, he thought all persons
would be agreed that, as we were engaged in war, that war
ought to be carried on in a manner consistent with the
honour and dignity of the country. (Cheers.) Now, what
had been the manner in which the war hitherto had been
conducted? Generally the blame was thrown upon the
system, and an endeavour was made to exculpate persons.
In the evidence given before the Sebastopol Committee
no single fault had been pointed out which was not either
thrown upon the system or upon Mr. Ward, who died
several months ago. (Laughter.) If anything was found
wanting which ought to have been supplied for the com-
fort of the troops, it was always said to have gone down
in the Prince. (Laughter.) Now, he believed that all the
misfortunes that had arisen were to he attributed to that
system of misgovernment of which the society complained,
and which the public had for many years permitted to
exist. But the indignation of the people was at length
aroused, and the Government were compelled to endeavour
to as certain where the blame rested in order to apply a
remedy. The Sebastopol committee was consequently ap-
pointed, and the result of their labours was to be found
in the three blue-books which they had issued. He believed
that the Crimean campaign would form an epoch in the
history of the country, and, if the worst enemies of Eng-
land were to seek the means of calumniating her and of
showing how,hollow beuinctitutions were, they could not
devise a better mode of doing so than by pr?cluting these
bine-books, for they were the records of the ignorance, in-
. difference, and obstinacy of a Government such as he
would defy the whole history of the world to produce.
(Cheers.) They cast the greatest shame upon the people
and upon the system, though fortunately there was one
redeeming point, inasmuch as they showed instances
of heroic suffering, of patient endurance, and of vir-
tue that had never been equalled. (Loud cheers.)
Who could read without emotion, the evidence
of such witnesses as Mr. Stafford, Mr. Osborne, and Mr.
Macdonald ? Their testimony proved the utter ignorance
and incompetence of the Government officials, and showed
that the most intense sufferings had been borne by the
troops with patient endurance and with but one gleam of
hope. And whence did that ray of hope come? It came
from the midnight lamp of that heroic woman—(cheers)—
who, as had been well described, was nightly to be seen
passing alone along miles of agony and suffering. (Cheers.)
Whence also had come the small comforts which had been
supplied to relieve the condition of the troops? They came
from funds supplied by private benevolence and adminis
tared by a great organ of public opinion. (Cheers.) A
woman self-devoted, and a man who had never seen war or
gone into sickness, and who was selected only for his in-
telligence, these wore the people who scattered hope and
comfort, which all the great appliances of the country,
which had test millions of taxation, were totally unable to
effect. (Cheers.) What lesson were they taught by this?
Why, that almost everyimprovement which had taken place
had come from private suggestion, and that almost every
substantial alleviation of suffering had originated in pub-
lic charity. (Cheers.) But need they feel surprised at this
when they knew from the testimony of Lord Aberdeen—
(murmurs of disapprobation)—and Sidney Herbert—(mur-
murs)—that during two months, while the greatest events
were in progress, and while the dignity and honour of this
country were pledged as they had never before been pledged
—there was no Cabinet Council held ? (Cries of shame !) All
the Cabinet, with three exceptions—and they were Peelites
—were away amusing themselves. They found at the com-
mencement of the Crimean expedition, on the testimony of
Lord Aberdeen, all the information which the Government
received was almost entirely derived froni the reports in
the public papers. (Hear, hear.) On the evidence of
their generals, they knew that the army, when sent to the
Crimea, was, as regarded appliances and comforts, in
the same state in which the army was when sent to the
Peninsula. The soldiers were sent to the Crimea
with old tents, old clothes, old arms, and old habits and
manners. What was the result of this? Why, that thou-
sands of valuable—nay, of invaluable—lives had been sac-
rificari—sacrific •d, not at the bloody shrine of war, but
at the ignominious, inglorious shrine of incompe-
tency, obstinacy, and neglect. In the Lace of all this, need
he ask was an Administrative Reform Association neces-
sary ? Was it not necessary that the deeply seated indig-
nant mutterings of the people should find an utterance?
And this society was formed for that object. He had been
told that the successes which had been lately made known
had done away with the objects of this society. (N., no.)
But had he, when he gave in his adhesion to this society,
been so unpatriotic as to believe that they should never be
successful? No, he'always believed that they should be
successful ; that they would carry administrative reform
—they would take Sebastopol, and obtain many other
things before long. (Cheers.) But were not these late suc-
cesses an argument in favour of this society ? What had
happened, after a long period of torpor and God knew
what, when a new and vigorous man was appoint al to the
command of the French army ? (Loud cheers.) Scarcely
was his name mentioned in the united camps than success
followed ; the fact of the right man being appoints en-
couraged the man ; they met danger with a good heart,
and success followed; and success would attend this meet-
ing if they acted on a similar principle. (Cheers.) Another
reason which rendered it necessary that this association
should be kept up was this—to whom did they owe these
successes? Was it to the commander and his staff? No;
it was to those long-suffering and heroic men who through
a winter of unparalleled hardships had maintained their
courage and spirits, and were now ready to undertake
whatever might be demanded of them. As yet honours
had been showered, us the nines' correspondent had said,
on the cocked hats of the staff. It was now for the asso-
ciation and the people of England to show that they
were prepared to shower their honours on the heads of
those who deserved them. (Cheers.) Let it ge forth to
their soldiers that this association and the people of Eng-
land were now struggling on behalf of the regimental offi-
cers and soldiers, and sought to distribute honours to those
who merited them ; and by doing this they would only be
discharging their duty to their soldiers and the country.
Ho had been told that this association had no definite ob-
jects. He did not agree with this, as he thought the some-
what voluminous address which had been issued contained
many clear and definite ideas, and he was prepared to-night
to lay down grounds on which the association might pro-
ceed, and would lay down others on Friday next, when he
brought forward the motion of which he had given notice.
(Cheers.) He had never quailed from bringing forward that
motion, but he only postponed it because he thought
that it was necessary they should discuss the question of the
war before the Whitsuntide recess. He took it that the
first object of the society was to gain information ; that iias
a most important object; it comprised a multiplicity of
subjects, but could not be said to be indefinite. Hitherto
all connected with the Government of this country had
been guarded by a veil of mystery, which it was the object
of thatisociety to break through. The Corn Law League
was established for a specific object, to enable it to obtain
which a quarter of a million was collected. But, to his
mind, the abolition of the corn laws was infinitely second-
ary to the objects of that association—(cheers)—for, if they
11
put the right men in the Government, the abolition of the
corn laws and of every other noxious law would follow as
a
weto matter
the of course, and therefore he said to all who wished
'cause—enable ithe society, by pecuniary sup-
port, to obtain information. (Cheers.) They then came to
hree grea dlra?
theploarnahar
something more tangible, in the shape of the reform of the
of the public service—the army and
navy—
that the army was
aledarp. the civil services. They knew
ramdeelareate subject with him—(laughter)
and, though he tail done
—he had alread
kind of Balaklava charge upon it,
received
some
ru blow. ,1111 enemy some mischief, he had
right with the public on this
Friday next to put himself re.sieglfh.i :eothobpoedeihpoe:eovde,r,a:
subject to an extent that

though ho had made some slight errors, and it was very
difficult, velien there were thousands of rules, some of which
were not known to the profession themselves, to get at the
truth, still it was at the bottom, and, though some mistakes
might he made, it would be reached at last. He aid npt
think that the ebullition of temper on the part of the hodse
to which he alluded was owing to the mistake which he
had made ; his experience of the House of Commons had
taught him this, that a man may make as many wilful in-
accuracies - to use no harsher term-as he liked, if he were
with a party, but ho must beware of a mistake if he stood
alone, for if he made one, as in his (Mr. Layard's) case, up
jumped a number of indignant colonels, one of whom was
so carried away by his feelings that he wondered at his
(Mr. Layaril'a) impudence -(laughter)-in touching the
question of the army. Even Earl Derby, forgetting his
youthful days and indiscretion, w hi ch had earned for him the
title of the " Rupert of debate," had done him the honour
of saying that he had no connection with him. (Laughter.)
Sir J. Pakington had given him a quarter-session lecture,
and Lord Palmerston-in no very English spirit-seeing
him down, had trampled him under his feet. In the midst
of all this he had derived some consolation from the
anecdote told of the eminent statesman Tierney, who, see-
ing one man knock another down and commence kicking
him violently, went up and remonstrated. " Alt, sir,"
said the man, "if you had had so much trouble to get him
down- (loud cheers)-as I have, you would not let him off
without a few kicks. He trusted that ho was now up again,
and when he said that he stood alone he had made a mis-
take, for what he had witnessed that evening convinced
him that he did not stand alone-(loud and prolonged
cheering)-and he would endeavour to be more accurate
for the future. Next to the landed interest, it was said
that the army interest was the strongest in the House
of Commons, but that was not the case. The Guards'
interest might be so ; but that was not the interest
of the regimental officers and soldiers. He could show them
the way at once to put down the greater part of the evils
in this case. One of the greatest evils of the army wasthe
purchase system. All the greatest military authorities, in-
cluding Sir De Lacy Evans, had said that the purchase
system was a disgrace to the nation, and it was one which
no foreign country could understand. Many attempts had
been mae to put an end to it, and Lord Palmerston, and
those who defended it, said, " It is true the system is bad,
but there are vested interests connected with it which you
must not touch. If a man buys his commission, he has a
right afterwards to sell it. You cannot get rid of this at
one fell swoop, nor will the country pay the large sum
required to do so." But he could show Lord Palmerston,
if he were sincere in his desire to abolish this system,
how he might cut off half of it without any expense to
any individual or the country. From the Army List
it would be found that, owing to this war and other
consequences, more than half of the commissions granted
had been so without purchase, and therefore they ought to
declare that every commission which had been given with-
out purchase should hereafter go without purchase.
(Cheers.) The Government had declared it would make
improvements in the army, but they had only united the
Ordnance with the army department ; and Lord Panmure
had said that when the appointments were made they
would find the right men were placed in the right places.
On looking at these appointments, he found one was given
to Lord Panmure's nephew, who he was told was an ex-
cellent man, and had been private secretary to the pre-
vious Minister. Captain Ramsay now occupied his place
of private secretary, on the strength of which he would
obtain something good ; then there was Mr. Howell,
the, partner of Mr. Hayter's brother, who, it was said,
had not received his appointment on the ground of Par-
liamentary considerations. He (Mr. Layard) was willing
to accept this statement ; but then the question still
remained, would Mr. Howell have received it if he had
not been the, partner of Mr. Hayter's brother ? With
regard to diplomacy, if there was any branch of
the public service which required a fundamental
reform, it was this, and he should make some suggestions
on it ou Friday next. He warned the meeting against
secret diplomacy. It must to a certain extent be so, but
it need not be mystified to the extent it was at present. If
inquiry was more important on any one subject than ano-
ther, it was with reference to the civil service. They had
just had a moat excellent report published which gave them
valuable information on thisbranch of the service, of which
they oughr to avail themselves. One of the first objects of
the society ought to assist in getting effective men placed
in every branch of the civil service. At present hebelieved
that the number of civil servants employed was too large,
and many of them were underpaid. They ought to be paid
liberally, and he believed that it was a great mistake to
press too much for a reduction of salaries, because gene-
rally the enormous salaries of the great men were left un-
touched, while the smaller salaries of the really hard-
working and deserving mon were cut down. (Hear.) At
present there were about 60,900 l ersons connected with
the civil service, and the appointments of these men were
influenced more or less by political motives. A sort of
current of electricity ran between Mr. Hayter and the re-
presentatives of various constituencies. The Secretary to
the Treasury had only to touch the electric wire, audit ran
through the whole of the country. That, however, was a
system which must be put a stop to ; and in considering
what means ought to be adopted to put a stop to it, he
came to what he conceived to be one of the chief objects of
the meeting. He had been told that he had made a great
mistake in the terms of the motion which he was about to
bring before the House of Commons and that instead of
having said, "The house views with deep
,concern the
state of the nation," he ought to have said, The nation
views with deep concern the state of the house."
(Laughter and cheers.) Upon the whole, he believed
that such a motion would have better expressed the
feeling of the country, for the people of the country
were beginning to lose faith in the House of Commons.
They saw in it a mere struggle of parties, and no
real earnestness. (Cheers.) In obtaining such reforms as
might be found necessary perhaps the association might
have to go further than they anticipated. He understood
from the chairman that committees were already organised
in almost every principal town throughout the country,
and he would call upon those committees when the election
came-and it must come before lonl-to take care and
elect men who would adopt the recommendation of his
noble friend Lord Goderich, and not darken the (loots
of Mr. Hayter. (Cheers.) There were, however, other
duties which the association would have to discharge.
It was an argument of the old Tories against the Reform
Bill that, if the bill passed and the rotten boroughs were
disfranchised, men of genius and talent would not be
brought forward in Parliament. If that were true, it was
a great reflection upon the country, inasmuch as it showed
that by throwing open the constituencies they had been
enabled to place better men in Parliament than were sent
there before the passing of the Reform Bill. It would be
the duty of the society to obtain .a pledge from every
candidate that he would support administrative reform,
and already a happy commencement bad been made in the
return of Mr. Tite for Bath. What he (Mr. Layard) wished
to see was a new party in the House of Commons, not re-
presenting a class, but representing the feelings and opi-
nion of the people of the country, and relying for support
not upon family connexions, but upon the people. (Cheers.)
Hitherto a great struggle had been carried on in the House
of Commons without any attention having been paid to
the people. The public voice as yet had not penetrated
the walls of Parliament, but, like gamblers, the two par-
ties now composing the House of Commons had staked
everything upon a throw. Regardless of the sufferings of
the people out of doors, their great struggle was upon the
question who should remain in office. •The police, how-
ever, were already at the door, and prepared to burst it
open, when players, and cards, and lights, and dice,
and tables would bo seized and overturned together.
(Loud cheers.) At present the Whigs had won the
game. They had staked very heavily on the Liberal
card and had won, but, having pocketed the stakes, they
had left the card to its fate. (Cheers.) Instead of a Go-
vernment which was to have been liberal and pure, the
country found themselves ruled by the old family clique.
With four or five exceptions, such as Mr. Horsman, Mr.
Ball, and one or two others, there was not a man in the
Cabinet or connected with the Government in a more subor-
dinate position who was not a lord or an honourable.
Even such a place as the Chairman of Ways and Means
was no exception. The public were told that a brilliant
career was open to any man of talent in the House of Com-
mons, and to a certain extent that was true ' - but when a
man of genius and talent, who might be found inconvenient
or troublesome to the Government, accepted office, it was
bnly upon the condition that he should sacrifice his liberal
opinions and become a Whig. They all knew that there
was as great a difference between Liberalism and Whig-
gisrn as between the North and South Poles. (Laughter
and cheers.) If this were not the case, would any man
pretend to say that Sir William Molesworth would
not have been upon the platform that night. (Hear, hear.)
Ho believed Sir W. Molesworth to be a sincere man, but he
was unable to carry out the principles he had always ad-
vocated in consequence of his connection with the Govern-
ment. The Government themselves were ever ready to
a ic rifle° their subordinates, bat not to give way themselves
-which reminded him of the anecdote of the Irish land-
lord who so greatly oppressed his tenantry that his steward
wrote to him at length to say ho had been threatened to be
shot, upon which the landlord wrote back-" Tell those
scoundrels, that if by shooting you they think to intimi-
date me, they are eery much mistaken." (Laughter and
cheers.) So it was with the Government. When a sub-
ordinate was in the way they said, "You must be thrown
over, for we must tot be intimidated by your being
knocked on the head." If any man ever possessed the
power of effecting a change in the system of govern-
ment it was Lord Palmerston. That noble lord was
carried into power by the united voice of the people
of this country, and though he (Mr. Layard) hail
beard of the country having been disgraced and brought to
the verge of ruin by the conduct of statesmen, yet this was
the only time he had seen a man jesting upon the suffer-
ings of the people, and making light of their unfortunate
condition. (Cheers.) And this, too, was done at a mo-
ment when all Europe was looking to the British Parlia-
ment for an example of wisdom, order, and liberal go-
vernment. Indeed, he must acknowledge that he had never
seen Lord Palmerston" in earnest except when vilifying the
people of this country. (Hear.) It was said that the asso-
ciation was an attack upon the aristocracy, but its only
object was to obtain a proper system of administrative re-
form. Their motto was "fitness," not "favour." In the
words of Shakapearo :-
" Who shall go about
" To cozen fortune, and be honourable,
" Without the stamp of merit? Let none presume
" To wear an undeserved dignity.
0 ! that estates, degrees, and offices •
" Were not deriv'd corruptly; and that clear honour
Wore purchas'd by the merit of the wearer !
" How many then should cover that stand bare ;
" How many be commanded that command."
(Loud and prolonged cheering.)
Mr. LINDSAY, M.P., was the next speaker. He said
that the association was not desirous of making war
against any particular Government ; but it was anxious to
obtain that system of government that would be most in
accordance with the sentiments of the people. , The gentle-
men who had originated this movement were far from de-
siring to wage war against the aristocracy, as the aristo-
cracy; but they did assert that it was wrong in principle
to intrust the government of the country to men simply be-
cause they happened to be lords and honourables, and that
some other claim to govern ought to be required. (Cheers.)
But in spite of the statements which had been made from
time to time by the Times' correspondent, it was still de-
nied that there had been any mismanagement in the conduct
of the war ; and he was therefore desirous of occupying the •
time of the meeting for a few moments, while he endea-
voured to lay before them some plain facts with which he
had been lately made acquainted. About six weeks ago he
was asked by Sir De Lacy Evans if the scarcity of shipping
was still as great as it had been ? His reply was, that ship-
ping might be found to any amount ; when Sir De Lacy
Evans said his statement was very strange, because for
more than a month he had been desirous of sending out
3,000 horses to his division in the Crimea, and he had been
told that it was impossible to find ships to carry them out.
He (Mr. Lindsay) made inquiries into the matter, and sub-
sequently addressed a letter to Sir De Lacy Evans, stating
that some time ago a friend of his had written toLord Pan-
Inure, offering to supply, in 24 hours, a magnificent fleet

of the finest ships in the world, capable of carrying out
2,200 horses, at the low rate of 16s. or 17s. per ton regis-
teredtonnage. The answer received was the usual one—that i
the offer would be considered. (Hear.) Some time after-
wards another offer was made to the Government to find
a fleet capable of taking out 2,660 horses, and yet he (Mr.
Lindsay) understood that to this day the larger portion
of the horses referred to by Sir De Lacy Evans had not
gone out. (" Hoar, hear," -and cries of " Shame !") The
Government in this way were making efforts to obtain ships
and ho would state what these were. There were some
short time since two magnificent steamers lying in the
Clyde which.the Government were anxious to obtain; the
owner, who was a Manchester man, wrote to a friend in
town, desiring him to tender to the Government one of those
steamers.
_ln four or five days an answer was sent impos-
ing such conditions as it was impossible the owner could
agree to, and he wrote to his friend and asked him to try
and fix the ship for the French Government, and this he
succeeded in doing. On Thursday last the other steamer
was offered to the Government, and on Saturday they
agreed to accept it on the condition that the steamer
should come from the Clyde to Liverpool to be examined
there by their officer. (Laughter.) So that a ship of the
value of 100,0001. was to be brought to Liverpool for
the convenience of the Government surveyor, when
ho could have gone to the ship for 21. The owner
wrote to his agent to say that he never heard anything so
grossly unreasonable as this demand of the Government,
and told him to apply to the French Government, who en-
gaged the vessel, which was thus lost to the service of this
country. Ho would mention another case. The Govern-
ment had engaged a steamer, of the value of 50,0001., lying
at Deptford, and, having 12 tons of goods at Newcastle to
be conveyed to the Crimea, the owner received orders to
go to Portsmouth to take on board troops for the Crimea,
and onhis way to call at Newcastle. (Laughter.) The owner
wrote to the Secretary of the Admiralty, stating that the
goods could be brought from Newcastle for 61., but that it
would cost 2,000/. to send the steamer for them. An angry
letter was sent from the Admiralty, ordering the owner to
go to Newcastle; he remonstrated, and then a letter was
sent from the secretary of Sir James Graham, still order-
ing the owner to proceed to Newcastle to take on board the
12 tons of combustibles for'the Crimea. The owner said he
could not see 2,003/. of his country's money wasted, and
refused to go be the con‘equences what they might. (Cheers,
and cries of "Name !") He would give the name to any
one who might in confidence desire it. After his last re-
monstrance, the Admiralty not liking themselves to send
contradictory orders, did so through another department,
and the owner was told not to proceed to Newcastle, as
the goods would be brought to Woolwich. He would cite
one more case. There was a steamer lying at Deptford of
the value of 60,0001.,and before it could be finally engaged
it was necessary it should be examined by the Government
engineer, who resided at Woolwich. The Government
ordered the owner of this steamer to proceed from Dept-
ford to Woolwich, so that the engineer might walk on
board. (Laughter.) The owner answered to the effect
that it would be easier for the engineer to come to the
ship, and that he might do it for 4d., but it would cost
2001. to take the ship to him. The owner was again
ordered to proceed to Deptford, but he refused, and said
he would rather take away his ship from the Government
than do so. (Cheers.) He had moved for returns to be made
with respect to the transport service ; and, although the
Government had taken five months to make them, yet there
were so many errors ies them—even wilful errors he was
afraid—that if a clerk of his had made 1-10th part of them
he would have dismissed him, and he would not rest
until the men who had made the errors in these returns
were dismissed. He might raise up personal emity by tak-
ing the course he had adopted with reference to this move-
ment, but no threat should prevent him from pertorming
the duties and carrying out the sacred trust of a represen-
tative of the people. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. TrrE, M.P., said that it was unnecessary for him to
attempt to enlist the sympathies of those present on be-
half of the association, after the manner in which they had
responded to the preceding speakers; but he would state
to them that this question of reform was now being re-
echoed throughout the country. The hon. gentleman then
proceeded to refer to the mismanagement of the war,
and quoted the opinion of Sir W. Napier to show that
throughout the Peninsular War the Duke of Wellington
had had to contend against the same misgovernment. He
believed, however, that the Administrative Reform Asso-
ciation would be the means of effecting a vast amount of
good, and he thanked the press for the earnestness with
which it had advocated the cause which the association
bad at heart. He concluded by expressing an opinion that
it would be a great step towards obtaining an improved
system of government, if in future electors would refrain
from calling upon their representatives to ask the Govern-
ment for situations, and would leave them free and un-
fettered, and entirely independent of the Government.
Mr. OTWAT next addressed the meeting, and said, it was
most gratifying to see that one of the results of the forma-
tion of the association had already been that all parties were
engaged in a struggle as to who should be the best adminis-
trative reformer. He knew of no question so important as
that which had for its object the reform of the present sys-
tem of misgovernment, and he was of opinion that one of
the first steps in order to obtain reform would be to
open the civil service of the country to those whopossessed
the qualifications that were requisite for admission into the
service. With regard to the army he had long felt that, in
a time of war especially, all promotions ought to be made
strictly in accordance with the merit of the individuals
promoted. A most important branch of the service was the
Staff, and, while in all foreign countries the officers upon
the staff were well educated and organised in the duties of
their profession, the education of those employed by this
country were comparatively neglected. In all the appoint-
ments that were made merit was entirely overlooked, and
the highest posts of honoir were given to those who had the
most influential connexim. It was hardly credible—but
yet it was the fact, according to a return which he had re-
cently obtained—that outof 136 officers employed upon the
staff in the Crimea, only nine had obtained certificates of
merit. The moment the French army arrived at Kamiesch
the staff set to work to construct roads and provide
means of communication, in order that the army might
be properly supplied with food and necessaries ; but our
staff did no such thing, and he doubted whether they would
not have been utterly incompetent to perform such a duty.
Some allusion had been made by Mr. Layard to the diplo-
matic branch of the service. He (Mr. Otway) could con-
ceive no profession mom important, and he was most
strongly of opinion that it ought to be open to any per-
son of sufficient merit and capacity to enter it. (Cheers.)
At present we had 2 Ambassadors, and both of them were
peers. We had also e 2 Ilinisters, sof whom were peers,
6 sons of peers, 2 baronets, and 3, paternally, nephews of
peers. Of 3 Secretaries of Embassies, 1 was a peer, and
1 the son of a peer ' • and, of 22 Secretaries of Legation,
10 were peers, and 5 others were nearly connected with the
peerage. Out of 124 persons employed in the diplomatic
service of the country 64 were either peers or closely con
netted with the peerage. (Freer, hear.) Such a state of
things was, he thought, highly disadvantageous to the
country, and it was quite time to put a stop to it. To use
the words of Mr. Layard, it was only by putting the right
men in the right place and by entirely changing the pre-
sent system that the sufferings and misfortunes which had
recently occurred could ha prevented in future. (Cheers.)
Ten o'clock having arrived, the Chairman announced
that the proceedings would then close, but loud calls wore
made for Sir C. Napier.
Sir C. NAPIER, who was received with great cheering,
briefly thanked the meeting for the reception which had
been given to him, observing that it was a reception which
one wo had been censured by the Government and dis-
missed from his command bad no right to expect. (Cheers.).
He was quite unprepared to address the meeting, and he
would, therefore, merely give in his adhesion to the asso-
ciation, believing that, after the disasters which had oc-
curred in the Crimea, it was only b 3 placing the right men
in the right place that the safety of the country could be
scoured. (Loud cheers.)
The proceedings then terminated.

LNIPEIiIAL ['ARMAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-(YESTERDAI.)

The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock

Tile Severn Valley Railway Bill, and the Somerset
Central Railway Bill 'were read a third time and passed.

PETITIONS,

Petitions were presented (4) by Sir J. Walmsley from
the metropolis generally, and from Woolwich, against
the Sunday Beer Bill ; also a petition from Leicester,
praying for amendment of the Poor-law Bill, so as to
give local control ; by Lord Stanley, from Colchester,
praying that steps may be taken for the restoration of
peace ; by Mr. Palmer, from Berkshire, against the
Sunday Trading Bill, and one against the endowment
of Maynpoth ; by Mr. Pellatt, 12 petitions from Dis-
senting congregations in favoiir of the Marriages Bill.
SUNDAY TRADING (METROPOLIS) BILL.
On the order of the day for the house going into com-
mittee on this bill, . _ _

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a large number of
petitions from various parts of the metropolis against
the bill, complaining that the bill is a gross attack on the
liberty of the working classes.
Mr. WILKINSON also presented a number of peti-
tioris from Lambeth with the same prayer, and one in
favour of it.

Lord R. GROSVENOR then presented several peti-
tions from the Tower Hamlets, Finsbury, and West-
minster, in favour of the bill.
Lord R CGROSVENOR then appealed to the hon.
member for Newport (Mr. Massey) to postpone his
amendment (that the house go into committee on the
bill that day three months), as he should have proposed
that amendment on the second reading.
Mr. MASSEY regretted that he had omitted to pro-
pose his amendment at the second reading of the bill,
for he believed it to be a bill unjust, iniquitous, and mis-
chievous in principle, and one which he felt bound to
oppose in every stage of its progress. He contended
that the bill, besides being bad in principle, was
partial in application, for it would affect only the
metropolis, leaving entirely untouched the great
hives of manufacturing industry in the large towns,
where the habits and manners of the people were pretty
similar to those of the working classes of the metropolis.
(Hear.) Besides, he contended there was not any trading
on Sunday in the metropolis calling for such a measure.
A man might walk through the heart of London—from
the Bank of England along Cheamide, Fleet-street, the
Strand, and go on to Hyde Park Corner without seeing
any shops open or any trading. (Hear.) The same
remark would apply to the other great line of thorough-
fare—Oxford-street. (Hear.) He had himself gone through
many of the more humble streets on a Sunday to ob-
serve what sort of trading was going on there, and it was
true he found some shops open. But what were they?
They were small milk shops, bakers, lollipop shops, and
such as contributed to the necessities or comforts of the
working classes—(hear)—and to call that a desecration
of the Sabbath was the grossest exaggeration. (Hear,
hear.) He thought such legislation as this bill belonged
to an age gone by ; he thought those matters ought to
be left entirely to the judgment of individuals them-
selves. (Hear.) If the bill were passed, the observ-
ance of the Sabbath wouli not be advanced an inch, nor,
indeed, did the promoters of the bill themselves pat it
on that footing. There were thousands of poor coster-
mongers, and others of that clasi, who rose on the Sun-
day , morning without perhaps a meal in their
wretched dwellings, and were they to starve ?
It was said, too, that why should not
the working classes purchase their provisions on the
Saturday ; but, it was well known that thousands of
honest working men, who did not frequent public:houses,
who occupied but one or two rooms, and were they to
be compelled to keep their food for four-and-twenty hours
in a close, and often unhealthy atmosphere ? If they
were, he considered t :at would not be the
way to promote either the self-respect or the
health or habits of those industrious classes. (Hear.)
He contended that, even in those localities where Sunday
traffic most prevailed, the traffic was over at a compara-
tively early hour—say by 11 o'clock in the morning.
The hon. member for Westminster (Sir J. Shelley)
expressed dissent, but he (Mr. Massey) knew that in
those districts the trading was so sensibly dimi-
nished by one o'clock that there was no re-
munerative reason to induce the tradesmen to keep
their shops open after that hour. (Hear.) Was any gen-
tleman in the house prepared to bring in a bill to fix the
_ _

time on which a master should pay his servants ? He
believed the da for such legislation as that had long since
passed away; yet it was well known the workmen did not
receive their wages till late on Saturday nights, and such
a bill as this would probably compel the labouring
classes to resort to a " tick" system or a " truck" sys-
tem, which would be most injurious. The hon. member
then referred to the evidence given by Sir Richard
Mayne before the Lords' Committee on Sunday trading,
who stated that though the trading was on the increase,

the observance of the Sabbath was at the same time

more and more kept up, and he also stated that the
enforcement of the prevention of Sunday trading was a
matter of the greatest difficulty. Such legislation as
this was calculated to drive the ,working classes to the
low gin shops, on the windows of one of which he lately
saw an invitation to the people to come in and "get
drunk for a penny ; dead drunk for twopence; and clean
straw to get sober upon for nothing." He would not
trespass further on the house, but would conclude by
saying the bill was unjust in principle and partial in cha-
racter—that it 'was uncalled for, and that it would be
much better to leave such subjects to the self•respect of
the workirg classes, which, he thanked God, was daily
increasing, as was also their knowledge and intelligence,
and therefore he thought it much better to desist from
any legislation' on this subject. He therefore moved an
amendment that the house should go into committee on
the bill on that day three months.

Lord STANLEY said he felt bound to give his sup-
port to the bill. The honourable member who had just
sat down drew a very pathetic picture of a poor
man being obliged to keep his food for 24 hours
in his room ; but had the honourable gentleman
read the bill ? Why the third clause provided that
any article of food, meat, poultry, &c., may be sold on
Sundays up to the hour of nine o'clock. (Hear.) As
to the objection of the hon. member that this bill
would affect only the metropolis, there was nothing
unusual in that; it was quite customary to legis-
late for the metropolis on a separate scale from the
country, and, in fact, tbere was at this moment
a bill before the house for the local manage=
ment of the metropolis, which would not at all affect the
country. (Hear.) He, therefore, considered the hon.
member had not made out any case against the bill.
Mr. W. J. FOX said he knew the metropolis now for
a period of nearly fifty years, and he
,believed that
the inhabitants of the working order had increased
in knowledge, self-respect, and civilising influences
in that time to a most extraordinary, extent, and he be-
lieved such legislation as this bill proposed was utterly
uncalled for. As to the absence of_necessitrfor making
purchases on Sunday, why, if workmen received their
wages at an earlier hour on Saturday than now their work
would be stopped at an earlier hour; so that, in fact, such
a step would in reality be to inflict a penalty on the
workmen. (Hear.) By our Sabbath, from 12 o'clock
on Saturday night till 12 o'clock on Sunday night, we
restricted a great many useful things. That was not
the original Sabbath, which commenced at sunset of
one day, and ended at sunset of the next day, and there-
fore he considered we did much mischief by
our modern reading of the Sabbath. This bill
fixed upon trading exclusively, leaving out amusements
and work entirely, and that was a point which the Sab-
batarian legislators shrunk from touching. To interfere
with work would affect our great clubs and coteries ' • it
would interfere with the cooks, and footmen, and but-
lers, and carriages of the aristocracy ; and he thought
that to stop short of the legislation that would affect
those was a pitiful and sordid hypocrisy. (Hear.)
Mr. KER SEYMER wished the house would go
into committee on this bill. lie was not a Sabbatarian,
but he was not prepared to give up the Lord's-day as a
day of rest. Although Sunday was a day of rest it
should be also the Lord's-day. The hon. gentleman (Mr.
Massey) said there was little trading on Sundays in Mary-
lebone ; he (Mr. Seymer) wished the hon. member had
accompanied him•last Sunday to Houndsditch. He went
purposely to see that district, and the amount of Sunday
trading there was very extensive ; and not only trading,
but a public meeting was placarded to petition against
this bill. He did not see many people sign the petition,
for ho belieied it would be highly inconvenient fcr
most of the people he saw there to state their names and
residences. (Laughter.) He thought that all that had
taken place on the discussion of this bill shOwed in the
strongest way the necessity for the adoption of the pre-
sent bill. •

Sir J. SHELLEY supported the bill, because he be-
lieved that its provisions were likely to produce the best
results, and the health of the working classes would be
insured.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE deprecated the course that had
been pursued with respect to this bill, and he objected
to it on the ground that it ought to be introduced by
the Government. He looked at the measure as a
cowardly attempt on the part of the promoters of the
bill to effect that of which they would be ashamed if
personally appealed to.
Mr. WILKINSON concurred with the hon. member
for Finsbury that this measure ought to be taken up by'
the GoVernment, and hoped that that would not be lost
sight of in the bill.
Sir G. GREY said that the bill, in fact, ought to be
adopted by the house ; he would, therefore, support the
bill and oppose the amendment.
Mr. MAGUIRE supported the amendment, pre-
ferring, as he did, the testimony of Sir R. Mayne to that
of the policeman, whom the hon. gentleman opposite en-
cohitered in the course of his tour and whose experience
he had so graphically described. He was as anxious as
any member of the house that the Lord's-day should
be kept holy—(hear, hear)i—and no persons were more so
than the Roman Catholic members of the house that
such should be the case, but there was an overpowering
necessity on the part of the poorer classes of society,
and it was consequently unfair that coercion_should be
brought to bear upon them. He agreed with Sir R.
Mayne in thinking that the question was one which
must be left to the decision of public
opinion, which would adjust it much better than by
legislation. On that account he should support the
amendment.
Sir T. WALMSLEY said he.objected to the bill on
principle. He thought that the upper classes of society
ought to set those below them a better example in keep-
ing the Sabbath.
Lord R. GROSVENOR, in reply to the right hon.
member for Leicester, said that be had not under taken
the bill!at the desire of the upper classes at all, but that
he bad taken it up at the solicitation of the inhabitants
of the metropolis generally, consisting chiefly of
the lower classes, upon_ the prayer of i nu-
merously signed petition. With regard to the upper
classes setting a better example, he had obtained some

statistics with regard to the number of carriages
and horses passing through Hyde-park on Saturday
and Sunday last. On the ' former day he ,found
there were 1,936 one-hone carriages, 2,199 two and
snore horse carriages, and 1,740 saddle horses. On the
following day there were 1,698 one-horse carriages, but
those above one had dwindled to 854, and the saddle horse
to 413, whilst on the Sunday there were 1,228 otnni•
buses and 2,047 cabs passing under the Wellington-arch
at Hyde-park. He therefore thought there was nothing
to complain of in the example set by the class to which
he iia'l the honour to below,.
After a few words from J. HEYWORTH and Mr. BAR-
ROW,
The house divided on the question that the Speaker
now leave the chair, when the numbers were—
Ayes l5B
Noes 5l
Majority —lo7
The Speaker accordingly left the chair, and the house
resolved itself into a committee upon the bill.
Mr. W. J. FOX proposed to add to the bill a proviso
that all persons of the Jewish perivasion should be exempt
from all the restrictions imposed by the bill. He affirmed
that the bill if enforced upon them would be a penalty
upon them not only for their race, but also for their re.
ligion ; and he trusted the house would excuse his
speaking in their behalf, when it was borne in mind that
they could not speak for themselves. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. LLOYD DAVIS,
The proviso was negatived without a division.
Clauses 1 to 3 were then agreed to after a short dis-
cussion upon each.

On clause 4, 1
Mr. CEIAMBERS moved that the words "in cases
of emergency or charity" be inserted, urging that there
were cases in which it might be necessary to take excep-
tion to the provisions of the act.
Mr. DUNCOMBE described the act as a bungling
piece of legislation altogether, and was by no means the
proper course to take to subvert the act of Charle§ll.
The clause was afterwards agreed to, amended as pro-
posed.
Upon clause 4 being proposed, a short discussion took
place. The object of the clause was, that no trading
should take place before nine in the morning of Sunday,
or after one of the same day.
Several divisions took place upon amendments that
were proposed to this clause, all of which ended in the
defeat of the amendments and the adoption of the ori-
ginal clause.
In clause 5, which provided that there should be no
hawking or crying of newspapers 04 any sale of them
after 10 o'clock on the Sabbath some discussion took
place.
Mr. R. SPOONER thought that no newspaper should
be allowed to be sold after a certain hour on Sunday,
and moved as an amendment that the words nine be in-
serted in the clause instead of ten.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE considered that all restric-
tion should be taken off the sale of newspapers on
Sunday. Their sale was in his opinion essential for
the benefit of society as it at present existed.
Upon a division taking place on Mr. Spooner's
amendment, the origin 'al motion was carried by a majo-
rity of 116.
Mr. 0. DUNCOMBE then moved, as a further
amendment, that instead of ten o'clock in the morning
the provisions of the clause should be ten o'clock in the
evening, thereby giving liberty to all parties to sell
newspapers the whole of Sunday.
The committee divided on the amendment, which was
lost by a majority of 93.
Mr. CRA UFURD proposed to insert after the word
"morning" the words " or two o'clock in the afternoon,"
so as to restrict the sale of newspapers only during
divine service in the morning.

After a few words from Lord R. GROSVENOR and Sir
G. GREY, the committee once more divided, when there
appeared— . .

For the amendment
'Against it
Majority

~ 62
. 140
..--78

The CHAIRMAN was then directed to report pro-
gress, and the house resumed ; the committee to sit
again on the 4th July.
The Justices of Peace Qualification Bill was read a
second time, and ordered to be committed.
The DweJling.houses (Scotland) Bill was passed
through committee.
The report of the Committee of Ways and Means was
brought up and agreed to.
The Validity of Proceedings (House of Commons) Bill
was passed through committee. The bill was afterwards
reported without amendment, and, the standing orders
being suspended, it was read a third time and passed.