The National Register.
London, England, 1812-02-02 00:00:00

THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

Catholics to sit in Parliament,' or from taking off all the disabilities un•
der which they laboured ? Only a very small proportionof them could
ever belong to the Legislature; and was it to be supposed, that these
few could overturn the Constitution, Church, and State ? Or was -it
likely that the Sovert4gn would ever select his Lord Chancellor
Counsellor a
from
among the Catholics ? 'That he would select for his Chief
man who was plotting to overturn the Constitution ? Then, if no harm
could arise from granting this boon, was there no good likely to arise ?
He believed there would be a great deal. It was said the lower order
of the Catholics did not want this privilege. 1 hat was solaru,
'because it-was known, that the lower orders were alway by the
Weser; and. these high orch.-rs, in obtaining what they asked, woull
have their stake in the country made stronger, and a beneficial effect
would result throughout the whole mass of the peop:e. It was impossi-
ble to suppose that the great body would not like the Gos-ernrnent much
better it these claims were granted. Could men he expected to fight
the battles of their country with cheerfulness, who were denied the op-
portunity of rising to command ? Tice Catholics were men, and it was
but natural they should feel dissatisfied on account of the yrivileges
which were withheld from them* The Noble Lord comcludsd by ob-
serving, that it was understood the Prince was formerly favourable to
the treasure of ernaucipation ; and if Ministers had advised him to a
contrary conduct, they had done wrong.
The Marquis WELLEsLxy said, that this was a question of great im-
portance as to the effect it would have on the population of Ireland—
the law of Ireland—and its preservation ; and above all, on that which
was the bulwark of othe liberty of the Empire, the Protestant Estab-
lishment.— (Hear, hear !)—A Noble Lord (Somers) had adduced as a
reason for going into a Committee, a Report in a N:vespaper of a trial
which had taken place in [;eland, where a complaint had been made of
one of the Law Officers for having some concern in the forming a Jury;
yet he understood the question, when argued, was overturned by the
ittidge. The Noble Marquis defended the conduct of the Duke of Rich-
mond anst the Irish Administration, and declared his conviction that
none of them would have attempted to stand between the King and his
subj cts. The Government, however, had been advised that the assem •
bly of the Delegates was contrary to law ; and that opinion had been
declared correct by the Court of Kingi's Bench.--(Hour, hear!)—He
was not now saying whether that law was good or bad; but, in his opi-
nion, if he had to contend it hereafter, he should convince them it was a
wholesome law. When thii law was brought ie, in 1793, he, although
in opposition to the then Government, voted with them on that ques-
tion. A Judge, high in his pr fession, had declared tleit the niet rings
which this law was intended to suppress, woul,l prove the destruction
of the empire, if not prevented ; but in no hoe,:nce had the Cdurts of
Law been found anxious to crush the diouts of thq ilish in their
with to apply to Parliament in a legal way—(Hettr,'sear!)--hat be riaw no
way so likely to prejudice that cause at for those wha had the rnaaage-
merit of it to commence by open resi'stanee to a known law, and by steps
Most injurious to the tranquilllte of Ireland. Whatever feelings we mai
have towards the-admission of Catholics into Parliament, did their l .ord.
ships mean to say, that an assembly, consisting of Prelates, Nobility,
and Electors from different counties, was a fit assembly to he sitting in
Ireland after the Union... 4 Hear, hear! ).—This was not a question
merely of religious indulgence, but whether ever,- State was no: just itied
in retraining what Was injurious to the State. I hold all restraint to be
evil—(Hear, heir !)—but the danger on the other side may be greater ;
and if so, hold to your restraints—( Harr, hear !)—A Noble .Erri had s iid,
this was a question of State. Let them abate the questh 41 of right on one
aide, and the thry of zeal on the other, and consider it coo I.y. He had con-
sidered, that the best mode of disarraying the disaffect, it in that. country,
would be to remove the hood that holds them together—(Year, boor!)
—The restriction embodies them all---if the restrictions were removed,
the different chases; the army, the navy, the law &c. would separate. and
be looking to their own individual interest. How far they should he re-
moved, or what security strould be requi7ed fi ceo the Catholics, he was
no.t preparesi•to say.—(Hear, k'ar-! )—Wo:tid it be said the Catholics
e; )yed no privihon, no power or weight in the State? No one could
Say-they did not ; they were admitted into the army, it:to the navy, and
into the law ; and he was of opinion, that though there was no P piste
Pretenr!er remaining, yet-that so large a body were not to be released
from all restrictions, and admitted into the body of the State, witieout
considering what security shoe t be required for the preservation of the
tstablished religion. He would advise rho ns, till the time arrived when
they might be admitted to consider what security they had to offer, that
they would conduct tirtimstdves as p red and pc-seeable subjects, and, by
dutiful submission to legal authority, pave the way for their admis..ion
to those privileges they were so anxious to participrte.—(Thor, hear ! )
The Marquis of LaNsoo w E spoke in Lritour of the motion.
The Earl of Perittrs'roit-r also supported the motion, and contended,
(hat white England; with little mere than double the pooulation of Ire-
land; was able td raise 'early from .50 to 60 Millions, the revenues of
Irelatul could scarcely he collected, heconstquenee of the ur.iettled state
of that country, owing to the deprivation of their natural rights.
Earl Moira, Lord Erskine, and Earl -Darnley supported the motion;
end the Earls of Westmorland and Buekinghimshire, and Lord .Mul-

grave opposed it. •
Karl Gat,- entered into a very dace examination of the conduct ftf
the Irish Government and the iriolt Catholics, and into an historical.
♦evie Of the various circumstances of the case, both before and sillce
C. r. 1:n14.,n. lie Oleo entered !tit," the cirrlinistAnces which pro,lueed

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FEB. 2.

the Convention Act. T'he GOvernmenfwas idinned at the rioteiteent
Meeting of Ulster, held at Dungannon, which determined to hold a
convention at Athlone • to prevent which, principally, the Bill was
passed. The Act was founded on a precedent of the very bad times of
Charles 11. passed in a fever of loyalty, when too little care was taken of
the Constitution, the neglect of which had- brought Charles I. to the
scaffold, and created a revolution. Could that be of much authority ?
If the arguments used by the Irish Government were allowed, what
would become of the liberty of the press ? The logic of a despot might
be extended to apply to the -discussions of Parliament itself. In his .Noble
Friend's Bill (Lord Grenville), which he opposed, for suppressing sedi.
tious meetings, the words " for the purpose or pretence" were carefully
inserted, but there were no such words in the Convention Act. Lord
Fingal, Lord French, Lord Netterville, and the rest, were not persons
who could fairly be supposed to meditate any thing against the Govern-
ment : their fortunes, their connexions, -and general interests In the
country, forbad such an idea. We had now to contend with the whole
power of France. We were also on the eve of a war with America.
A war with America, coupled with the present state of things in Ire-
land, formed a fearful combination of such magnitude, as to make it im-
possible to make any statement too strong for the purpose of drawing
to it the most serious and close attention of that House, and what had
heretofore happened with regard to America, ought now to be a beacon
to warn the House of the danger of trilling so again.
1 The Earl of LIVERPOOL thought, a meeting which was to consist of
I Catholic Noblemen, Catholic Prelates, and other descriptions of per-
sons to the amount of more than 300 men, was such as might have
alarmed all thinking men. What could be the purpose tor winch such
an assembly could be convened ? Had not the Catholics for many years
1 past been allowed to present Petitions ? How had those Petitions been
treated ? Refused, it was true; but as long as the House was not hid-
' Indated, their Petions were received with all respect. If the House
I meant to proceed with this question, he hoped they would never think
I of going into a Committee, till they knew what it was that was ex-
ected , from them. Let the advocates for the Catholics lay on the
table of that House a Bill which should unequivocally shew what they
meant. Catholics and Protestants would then know the real truth, and
all persons might form a judgment what they were about.
Lord GRENVIL LE remarked, that the moment of irritation was t'se
i best for co: ciliation ; and there was offered to us an opportunity which
might mot recur of evincing our magnanimity, by chewing ourselves
I desirous of redeeming the errors of our past conduct. The course
I which bad been pursued towards Ireland was exactly the course which
had formerly been pursued with respect to America. He believed that
I i the fact was, that the Catholics, as they had met hostility where they
Llooked for friendship and common justice, they had drawn off from
this country in disgust, instead of feeling that affection for it which they
would have manilested it% their treatment had been different. lie con-
s cet •
Ived, that we 1::al boa that great opportunity, when the measure
might have been adopted previous to any irritation of the Catholics, or
alienation of their affections from the people of this country. One more
i! opportunity now presented itself in the awful visitation of Providenced
, the chief obstacle to the measure, and he hoped that this measure
I would not be delayed, until the affections of the Catholics of Ireland
4 were completely alienated from this country.
i The House then divi,.!ed—
I •
Content 4'2, Proxies 57-79 ; Non-content 86, Proxies 7G—IG2—
I
, MAjority 83.
Il Adjourned at HA LE-E 4 sr Six u'CLoc in the Morning.

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