The National Register.
London, England, 1816-02-19 00:00:00

.THE NATIONAL REdISTOR.

Bier stns of three mirions, s 'thous any interest at all; yet still
they had large balances sin their hands; and these different
coucessions on the part of the Malik proved that there was
nothing in the Act fur the renewal of the Bank Charter which
should prevent the public from a participation in these profits.
The lion. Member Oleo took a review ot the state of the balan-
ces at different periods, from 18i4i, to the present time; and
contended, that from !eon to ISOS,IIie Bank had balances to the
amount ef 8,500,0031. in its hands, upon which they made a
profit of 300,0001. a year. From that time, to the year 1811,
they had in their hands 5,.',00,01.101.; upon which sum they had
made u profit of:, per cent.; and again, from lel 1, to the pre-
sent time, they had had. 0,500,0001. of balance in their hands.
On the whole, they had, for the last 11 years, been making a
profit of 450,0001. annually; and for this munificent income
they did uothing, but merely carried ou a plain common mercan-
tile banking transaction, which there was not a banking-house
iii London or tkestinnister would not readily perform it fur
25,0001. a year. The Getitkman said, he must now again
ads ert to thb charge fur the management of the public debt;
and whilst lie did justice to the admirable and correct manlier
in which this part of the public service was performed, he
must be allowed to recommend, at a time when nothing but
economy could save the country, that some *nether reduction
should he made in the sum allowed to the Bank for the per-
form:nice of this branch of service and contended, that since
ISOO, the increased expense to the Bank could not, on the
most liberal allowance, be stated at more than 38,0001. while
their increased profits were 153,0001. at least. The Hon. Gen-
tleman nextohjected to the allowance of 4,0001. a year towards
the support of their house expenses, which they had enjoyed
ever since the establishment of the Bank. If' the Bank stood
upon their chartered rights, certainly this slim could not be
taken from them. On Mr. Pereeval*s proposing to suppress
this allowance, the .Bank absolutely refused to assent, and
that, fur a reason which, in his opinion, was the strongest that
could be urged for its suppression; namely, that they hail had
it so long. Another item of allowance was, one of between S
and 4,0001. for the management of 4 millions South Sea stock
which they had purchased in 1721, and which had since merg.
ed in the other prlblic funds, and they were otherwise paid by
the public. The last item which he had to mention was also
one of the most If ingillsir that he could imagine ; it amounted to
about 3,0001. peranuum, and was composed of an allowance of
one-eighth per cent. claimed by them tar the management of
such portions of the Property-tax as were paid by individuals
into the Bank direct. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded
to enumerate the different heads of profit derived by the Bank
from the public ; and observed, that taking the sum paid for
the management of the pnhlic debt at 440,0001., the profits on
the suspension of cash payments at 800,0001., and adding the
profits on other bt'anehea of balances, ex. their profits were
not less than 1,500,0001. annually, independent of the profits
derived from their exemption from the fair proportion of the
stamp duties, which was not less than 400,0001. is-year more.
These mere profits too, and he was convinced, that if the House
would insist on it with firmness, the Bank would not long resist
to give up to the Witte some of their overgrown profits. The
lion. Gentleman concluded by moving for the appointment of
a Committee to enquire iuto the state of the existing engage-
ments between the public and the Bank, and the profits which
the Bank derived from those engagements, and to report to the
House thereon. _

Mr. VANSITTART apposed this motion, as considering it un-
necessary, inasmuch as be considered the affairs of the Bank
had been fully investigated by the Committee in Iho7 ; and by
the repeated annual accounts since laid bora... the Douse.
Neither could he agree with the Ilea. Gentleman in his po-
sition, that the public onght to participate in the profits arising
from the suspension of cash payments ;since the earliest oppoi-
tunity ought and would be seized for restoring cash payments,
though he feared circumstances would oblige him to propose
a further extension of that measure, bat certainly not with
any view to increasing the profits of the Bank. He had brought
the Hon. Gentleman to acknowledge, that more than half the
profits of the Bank were derived from the suspension of cash
payments, and that the Committee were not to take cognizance
of that branch of the profit ; and be was persuaded he shoald
prove there was no necessity for a Committee to enquire into
any other part of the profits. He thought the present question
divided itself into two beads; whether the arrangement made
with the Bank by Mr. Perceval in 1808 was a provident one,
and whether the public had a right to any larger share in the
profits made by the Bank. For his own part, his duty was to
obtain every fair participation in the Bank profits the the pub
lie. But his opinion was, that they had nu right to attempt to
coerce the Bank to any other art angement than that which it
had entered into with Mr. Perceval. Instead of there being an
increased amount of balances in the hands of the Bank since
Ms, they had gradually diminished since that period. If that
were the case, surely the public could not call ou the Bank to
give a greater participation in its profits ; especially when it was
considered, that whatever the profits of the Bank really were,
they must be greater in a time of war than in a time of peace ;
for in the latter case the deposits must be smaller than in time
of war. In the arrangements lie would have to propose with
the Bank, the public would receive an advantage of 210,0001.
a year, which amounted nearly to half the amount of the advan-
tages obtained by the Bank from the public, even tuking the
lion. Gentleman's own statement. He defended the Directors
of die Bank from the charge which had been made against
them of a want ofaccommodation to the public. In collecting
the tax upon income, the Bank did the duty for about 3,0001. a
year, which would cost the public above 30,0001. if done accord-
ing to the original proposition. Upon all these grounds, to go
into a Committee, to ascertain what further profits could be
(obtained from the Back, would be a waste of the time of the
louse.
Mr. BANKF% contended, that what was done by the Com-
mittee of lmuts was not equal to the expectations of Mr. Pero!.
val, but he was swayed by the opinion of the Governor of the
Bank. It never was intended by Mr. Perceval, nor was it laid
don ii in the actor Dinh, that that arrangement was to he pet-
manent. And if Mr. Percival had attended more to the opi-
nions of the late Mr. H. Thornton, and to those of that very
Committee, he would have found, even then, that a much better
arrangement might at that time base been made with the Bank.
The Chancellor of the Excheq. ought to allow the House to ap-
point a CommiUce, in order really to ascertain whether the
Bank could 1114 afkoril a little more to the public service. lie
had no wish to dissolve the connection between the Bank and
the public ; but a sufficient check should be established on the
Dank, which it' not done that night inast he done noon.
Mr. RARING contended,' That the profits of Me Bank had
been considerably over-rated by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Gren-
fell). He reckoned the advantages derived from the Bank by
the public since the renewal of the Bank Charter to amount to
between seven and eight millions. The Bank had also sup-
plied considerable suns of money in gold during the war, at the
sterling seine, when it must have been a considerable sacrifice
lo 11-(o R.mi. Fiedi-vied that She hack cloth! make tio r
1 rent. .1.:111:n 1,2..:14411 1:de,:,d11).,,, 1.1 , try thOda(

I'EB. 19.

-7,
which might be suddenly withdrawn from the Back for the
way nothing
licsev
ieir or them to discover,
.ws tEbenifaC °liuil.e were appointed, there
t except in What imontwr
the balances of public money is the hands of the Bank bud been
changed ; an account c;" which could be laid Left,' e the 'Luso
without the rossistance of a Committee.

Mr. RAMIE{ explained.
Mr. 'rtyitsita had no intention of trespass*, on the time of
the House, by entering into the details of this subject : but he
vim* of opinion that enquiry was the only mode of itscertaiiiiw.
lietherThe Bank ought or not to give more accommodation to
the public for the balances sufl'ered to remain in it, hands.
Lord CASTLEREAGH thought no sufficient grounds had b^en
laid tar RD enquiry into the situation and cirem»stances of the
Bank ; for if without grounds such an enquiry were gone Into,
it must he prejudicial to the credit of the Batik, (and throu,gh
it, to the credit of the country,) is the eves- of tiweign nations.
He contended that the public bad divided the yearly advan-
tages with the Bank, arising from the deposits in the hands of
the latter, almost equally. The Hon. Gentlemau (Mr Greta.
tell) might bring the subject before the House by a specific
motion, without the assistance of a Committee, which he
(Lord C.) considered as quite uncalled-for.
Mr. PoNsontiv said, the enquiry sought for was simply t.
know whether the Bank, acting as the Banker of the Public,
did render the latter such assistance as was equal to the advan-
tages derived by the Bank front the lodgment of public balan-
ces in its hands. How this could affect the credit of the Bank
much less that of the Public) lie was at a loss to know. It
was impossible for the Chancellor of the Exchequer nut to
wish to keep well with the Bank, and that could only be done
by allowing the Bank to make as great profits from the Public
as possible. It was the House of Commons alone that could,
in such a case as the present, become the true guardian
the public interest.
Mr. MARRYAT spoke in favour of going into a Committee
on this subject.
Mr. MANNING spoke against the Committee.
Mr. tiItENVELL replied, and the House divided—For the mo.
tien, 41—against it, 81—majority, 37.
On our re-admission to the Gallery, we fonnd Sir C. Most
moving a call of the House for Monday se'night, on account
of the Property-tax.—After some conversation, the motion
was agreed ht.—Adjourned at Twelve o'clock.
WEDNESDAY, VER.
Lord CASTLEREAGH presented Copies of Correspondence
between the l)ukc of Wellington, Sir Charles Stuart, Marshal
Noy, Lord Bathurst, tic.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. BARING presented a Petition from certain Land-owners,
Farmers, and others, residing at Raveldiall And Harleston, in
Norfolk, complaining of the hardships they laboured tinder,
and stating, that nothing hitt a relief from the weight of taxa-
tion under which they at present laboured could essentially
save them; and further, representing that, in their humble
opinion, one of the best modes of lightening the present weight
of taxation, would be to reform, as far as possible, the reesent
extravagant and enormous expenditure of the Civil List, and
to introduce, as far as possible, economy into every department
of the State.
The Petition was read, and ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. Ttenhey Wished to know from the Noble Lord if he
and his colleagues had in view any plan of reform and re-
trenchment, agreeing with the hope held out in his Royal High-
ness's Speech;aud whether they had determined on the redaction
of any of the public establishments of a civil description. He
considered that rednction should take place in the departments
of State as well as in the Army and Navy. He wished to know
if the Noble Lord was prepared to state any contemplated re-
duction of this description.
Lord CASTLF.REAGH said, considerable reductions of the de-
smiption mentioned by the Right Him. Gentleman had takeu
place, and more were in contemplatiun ; but he was not now
prepared to state precisely what those reductions would be.
Mr. ARERCI/ONIBY wished to put a question to the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Peel) on the subject of a report
he had recently hoard respecting the office in the Exchequer
of Irelaud, held by the late Elul of Buckinghamshire. He had
heard a report to which lie could not attach credit ; namely,
that at the very time the Right Hun. Gentleman was assuring
the House that this place should he abolished, or at least reps
toted, a certain Irish Judge had interposed, and given the ap-
pointment to his son.
Mr. PEEL assured the Hon. Gentleman, that no person in
the House or out of it could have experienced greater astonish-
ment than he had done, when the report, to which the Hou.
Gentleman had adverted, first reached him ; and he was the
more astonished and surprised at it, because, from the reign of
Queen Elizabeth down to the present time, this place had al-
ways been considered us hi the gift of the Crown ; and when
he (Mr. Peel) stated to the House, that he would introduce a
Bill fur regulating the office, lie had no suspicion that any
other person would have claimed a light in it. lint he bad no
hesitation in saying, that, in his opinion, should it appear on
investigation, either by this House or by a court of law, that
any individual lied a claim, lie saw no reason why the House, if
it should consider it expedient, should not introduce a Bill fur
regulating the office. Its reason for mentioning the decisimi
of a court of law was, because the office being of a very an-
cient standing, having been created in the year 11011, it did
appear to I le‘irable that some little time should be given
for enquiry and investigation, and to ascertain what fees were
legal and what were not.
Mr. ROSE said, if the appointment to this office did not vest
In the Crown, it must belong to the Exchequer of Ireland, and
could not be the right of any individual. '

Mr. Bnoutataa-did nut think it material where the right
vested; as by the Ncsolutiun of the Howe if was declared,
that on the then vested interests expiring the place should be
abelished.

Mr. PEEL doubted if the Hon. Gentleman as correct in
this opinion.
Here the conversation terminated.
NAVAL ESTIMATES.

In a Committee of Supply,
Sir G. ViAItIIENDF:II stated the estimates necessary for the
Naval Establishment of the country during the peace. He
trusted he shotild be nble to satiily the House, that es cry at-
tention had been paid to economy' consistent with the safety
of tic country. The peace establishment must depend on s ari-
oils circumstances arb lug out of commerce. In respect to foretell
stations,--in the East Indies there would he no addition. The
Cape station, which is a new one, and connected with St. He.
lona, as well as the Mauritias, would call fur a very consider.
able number of men, according to the opin;on of.the distin-
guished Admiral commanding on that station; 11 ships would
therefore be employed. In the Mediterranean there would be
a 7.1-gun ship. substituted fur a 50-gow. A small squadron
would be stationed for the protection of the growing trade in
Seeth Americo and the Brasils, the merchants having applied
to the Admiralty for it. This was also it new station. In the
Jamaica and Leeward Islands a small reduction of the Naval
ail I with ouch Out would Ls. ,U.:isnied 04

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the Nor
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Mr. Po
the neces
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there
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be suddenly withdrawn from the Hank for the
FEB. 19. 1 FF.B
..
.THE NATIONAL. REGISTEX •
...._
the Nord
an of ilia, miriuns %%matins any interest at all; yet still which might
public ser'w/ce Even if a Committee ;id large balances tin their hands; and these different
'lron AS 11
00113 on the part of the Bank proved that there was was nettling itrWll.or them to discover, except in hbat inanlit.r 1 there Wot
Vin the Act fur the renew al of the dank Charter which the balances oh' public money is the hands W' the Bank hud bee I f iwoter
prevent • %%Inch mon
• • fit the public from a participation hi these profits. changed ;an account c; • .maul be laid Left,' e the 11 a
w o mid ea
°us,: ,
on. Member Oleo took a review of the state of the balan- without the assistance of a Committee. hich, in
different periods, from litini, to the present time; anti Mr. BANitiat explained. frigates t,
dell, that from 1.306 to t SUS, the Bank bad balances to the Mr. TIEnN la had no intention of trespassing on the time Or division c
t of 8,500.001. in its hands, mom which they made a the !louse, by entering into the details of this subject : but he seamen,‘
of .;00,0001. a year. From that time, to the year 1811, was of opinion that enquiry was the only mode of tiscertainin.• owing to
,td in their hands 5,:,00,01.101.; upon which sum they had wlietherThe dank ought or nut to give more accommodation to foreign tr
t profit of :r per cent.; and again, from Ibll, to the pre- the public for the balances suffered to remain in its hands. Establish
me, they had bad. ajmn,unol. of balance in their hands. Lord CAVILEREAGIT thought no sufficient grounds had b.en at the elo
'whole, they had, for the last I t Tears, been making a laid for an enquiry into the situation and circumstances ofthe he should
•• . ' income
; . grounds such ' enquiry had Jost s
of 450,0001. annually; and for tHs munificent Bank for if without
d nothin.,, but merely carried 013 a plain common mercan- it must he prejudicial to the credit of the Bank, (and through sward of
liking transaction, which there was not a banking-house it, to the credit of the country,) is the eves of foreign nations. paid off, a
ula. or Il est • stir would not readily perform it for lie contended that the ntshlie 1,01 A;.,• i 1 .. them namth

be united
Hon. Get
dition to
large an e
Mr. VI
the Huns
L' Malt, Slat
quer Bill
II for. Ile
agreed to
—Adjoin
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country
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14