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London, England, 1818-01-30 00:00:00

those traitorous aunciations. The arrest of tlic
principal persons engaged in these associations was
the cause of our restoration to peace and mutual
confidence

Sir S. RUMMY did not allude to the employ-
ment of Oliver. The last Report of the Secret
Committee had thrown sufficient light upon that
subject, where it had been stated, that they laid
to lament that some persons had even forgotten
themselves so far as to promote the treasons they
had been employed to detect anal counteract.—
(a bud cry of " I leur." ) —Nor had one of ins
Majesty's Ministers scrupled to asiert broadly, that
it was lois ditty to employ such persons in such all
objectionable way.—( Hear.)
Mr. BATHURST :aid, only one bad been alluded
to as employed by (;oversiment.
Mr. TIERNEY—Mb 31.1jesty's Ministers, he con-
teotled, were bound to make snit a case to the sotto-
usotion or Parliament, that, up to the 20tii
January ISIS, there exiled a paramount neees.ity
for continuing the Superision Act : for if it ap-
peared the repeal was delayed unnecessarily, the
King's Minister* had been godly of a crime against
the people of England. Ilow disgraceful was it to
any Government to hear such a thorough defence
of those wretches, employed es spies in the late
transaction, fioun the mouth of a Right lion. Mem-
ber of Administration !—(/leas.)

The Bill was then committed—the Report brought
top and received—and the question being put that
the Bill be read-the third time. _ .

Lord FGLESTONE rose and addressed the
Speaker.—" The id4ject of the clause I have the
honour to propose is 1144 to affect 11w legal remedy
which the subjects will have by the general pro-
visions of the Bill I tun anxious to amend. Ito oh.
ject is to release the parties who have entered into
recognizances, from ally apprehension of the future
consequences of such recogiliz.inces hangingover their
heads. Such a provision is w justice due to the irate.
resin of the individuals, for whom we cannot but feel
concerned and interested. The clause provides,
that, whereas divers persons have been taken up
and committed to prison upon charges of high treason,
against whom Ho proteerlings have been instituted,
yet the said parties have lwen induced, in order to
obtain their liberation, to cuter into recognizance% to
keep the iwace, and slip-ar when and where they shall
be called upon to isomer such charges us may be pre-
ferred against them; and whereas it is expedient
to ielieve these parties so bound from the effects of
such recognizance', it is hereby enacted, that the
recognizruces entered into by these parties in couse.
quence of warrants signed by the Right llon. Lord
Sidinouth, hr henceforth discharged, in DS full
and complete a manner as if none such had ever es.
isted ; provided th.ot nothing herein contained shalt
affect any other recogniz.nices entered 11110 by the
said parties, relative to Hoy other molter, and if
any such there be, that those recognizinces Stolll
remain in full force and efficacy, as if no such re.
!emir as the presesit had ever been granted'."-
Lord CASTLEREAGH 'mid, that the object .was
not to take auy advantage of those who had been
discharged, but to allow them to bring forward any
legal objections they might have.
Mr. TI
lERNEY Saul, that a provision of the wok
tine proposed was but u point of humanity atoll
justice. II the standing la* could subject them'
people to heavy expense and trouble, it was nut
too much to expect that something should be done
to take this away, and delivrr them from the 'le-
ce.tt.iiy of 'drench!' on the King's Bench.
The ATTORNEY-GENERA L—" It seems to me
impossible that any of the persons discharged could
have misunderstood the terms of the discharge.—
Notice was given to all of them, that their attend-
ance would not be required ; that notice did not
deprive them of the light of um 'king a legal inves-
tigation of the proceedisig. One or two of them
applied to Our for advice on the subject. I 101,1
them they were acquitted of all further attend-
ance, but for any thing more I was not a fit (into-
nel for their applicat. . (hi being infin mei! that
their recognizance* were discharged, sonic of thesis

said, that-would not satisfy them, that they in-
tended to look for legal redress. I advised them to
do so, if they found they kid grounds. In cases
of this kind, the patties are never required to ap-
pear upon their recogitizastees without notice giveit.
All of these had got notice that they need not at-
tend, except one man, who had set out behor the
notice arrived. I shall snake one observation mow.
1 he ((modal of the Noble Lord's motion is to
repair every evil conceived to be done ler the
late Act, and to reduce thing% as lunch as tussible
to the state they would have been in bad it not
passed. In this view it is quite nugatory. Sup.
posing persons were in custody during the stespen-
riot) of the Habeas Corpus Act, and a Bill for its
repeal passed, it should not be a necessary part of
its object to discharge all persons confined under it.
If any of these were in custody under strong and
material charges, they ought to be detained and
tried. The Suspension Bill only took away the
right of persons imprisoned to be brought to t►ial
within a limited time. The repeal of it restores
this right. The clause proposed would leave the
law precisely as it will lie alter the simple repeal of
the Suspension Bill, and is not called fur either on
principles of law or humanity."
Mr. BRoUGHAat—" The Him. and Learned
Gentleman mistakes the object of the clause pro-
posed. It was by virtue of the last Act alone that
Government was enabled to exact recoginzasices.—
They say to the parties aggrieved, Go to the
Bench.'—The king's Bench will say, You
esiteied into these recognizances voluntarily, we
can afford you no assistance.'—The recognirince
thus stands without a remedy. The last BM con-
ferred a power of detaining in confinement an un-
limited time, or of etiforcing a recognizance. In
t:0111111011 cases Government can detain a man in
prism) only for a short permit, when he may pro-
cure his enlargement, or establish his innocence;
but the late Act (mod to this I wish to call the at-
tention of the House) c !belled the party either
to enter into a recognizance, or continue in pinion
as long as the Law Officers might think convenient,
deprived of all power to apply for examination to a
Court above. The 41e,,igi. of this clause is to place
things nearly as possible tie the state they would
have been laud the Habeas Corpus Act never been
suspended, and iii that cast no recoginzatices would
now exist."

The SOLICITOR•GENERAI. Stitt, lie would join
issue with the lion. Gentle-wan who spoke last on
one point. Fie has said, that, because the

same were voluntary, the King's Bench would
not attend to any application to have them dis-
charged. The King's Bench would not ask whe-
ther they were voluntary or involuntary, but whe-
ther the Magistrate who caused them to be entered
into, had lewd power so to do ? The question
would be as to the legality of the recognizasters,
and the power of the Secretary of State to enforce
them. Thiti ground for the necessity of the clause
totally fails.
Sir NAMULIE. RoMILLY—" My Leurned Fliend
says, the Ilan. Gentlemen who spoke before leer
rests this question ou the feet of the recognizances
having beta entered into voluidarily. It was on
this I understood it to rest flout the beginning.—
It was said that sit option was given to the party,
either to remain in custody or to enter into a re-
cogoizance, and that having chosen the latter, it
was voluntary. But I apprehend, notwithstasiding,
that the power of exactilig them was derived from
the Bill for the siispro,imi. Indeed, this was hot
to be contradicted. The Secretary of State might
say to a person accused, There is u charge against
you, and unless you enter into recognizaucts, I'll
dentin you.'—The accused could not foresee how
long this detention might last ; and the Secretary
of State might say to himself, ' An Act of I'ai ha-
went • arms me with the alternative of taking re-
cognizance', or detaining in impriso ttttt eta ; if I
make too large an use of the latter, no matter; I'll
get a Bill of Isidemitity'."
The Arroaa EY-GENERAL, in explanation, said,
that it had been his intention to discharge all the
recoguizances, but the parties them-elves bud made
some objections to this' on point, of low. His sole
res-on for nut iostaidly discharging theta all a as,
to give the parties the opportunity that they con-
ceived nrcessloy for pr, ocrly stating their legal ob-
jections, and arguing the legality of the effair.
Sir WILLIAM BURROUGHs—" It is moat un-
reasonable that a wan charged with treason should
be diachnrged without being allowed any oppor-
musty of clearing his fame and re-establishing his
character. Ile g.ws back to society with an injured
reputation, and a stain ou his back ; vet numbers
were now reduced to this condition, If the persona,
whose case we are now considering, were taken up,
without any design of instituting prosecutions,
those concerned in it were guilty of a gross abuse
of power."
Lord FOI.KSTONE—" If the Attorney-General
twill say, that lie will move in the Court of King's
Besets, that the parties bound be no more called
ma for appearance, I will give up ihi clause—but
I will nut du this for any private assurance to the
parties."
The ATTORNEY-GENP.nAI,—" The parties were
hound to appear oil the first day of Term, and so
ou fr day to day. They were minced not to
ensue; but they did come. I told them their re-
cognizance, would be discharged; they interposed
legal rights. For this reason I did not apply to
the Kssig's Bench ; but I have no hesitation in
promising to do so ou au curly opportunity."
The Bill was then read the third time, passed,
and ordired to be moo sip to the Lord...
Lord Fut.stsroteE—" I rise to present a Petition
against severity and cruelty iii ininrovonnent. It is
one of the pei‘ons arre-twel under the Suspen-
sion of the. Habeas Corpus, and not drawn up with
Ow sort of ~piro that freetpieistl utionicterises peti-
tion% of this li:store."

The Clerk then proceeded to read the Petition.—
It stated, that the 13 —r, nn inhabitant of Not-
tingham tar 01q years, had time children and a
mother of the age of ninety, dependant ass lam fur
support—that lie was arrested an the 10th of June—
that lie hail given no resistance to the officers, slat
from motives of fear, but in obedience to the pre-
cept• of Jesus Christ—that the officers pi-no-riled to
search Ins house—that, before the Magistratvs, he
u•krd a copy of the warrant for so doing, but was
rellised —that in prisms be received nothing but
head Heal water, except from his wife—that lie was
immured with a felon in a damp dungeon, with a
wrung stilithurrous smell—that, in consequence, lie
had suffered an attack on his lungs, the effects of
which, he feared, would continue fur the remainder
of his life.

Lord FOLKSTONE here rose, end said, that as
Gentlemen did not seem inclined to hear the
un read, its object was to complain of harsh treat-
ment received (luring impriso 1111 l ent mule'. the Sus.
pension Bill. It had been repeatedly said, that
ilw suspension gave no slew powers of commitment.
Granting that. here was a ens., of ill-treatineiit iu
the extreme doer tinder its a:un•t . Dl the ille-
gality of twarebilig a house will tas warrant, there
could be no coconut. !lad the officers been killed
on the spot it could scarcely be said to be an illegal
act.

Mr. OSBORN E said it was quite irregular to in-
terrupt the reading of a Petition.
Mr. B. Bx•rituitsT said, that iii his opinion the
Petition aim au improper one—but if the Noble
Lord thought it contained nothing objectionable, he
might move to have it ;milted.
Lord FOLKSTON E—" When I first rose, I ex-
pressly ►tared that the Petition contained nothing
objectiosiable—tiothing disrespectful to the House.
I intended to move for the printing of it."
The Petition was resumed ; the latter part stated
that the Petitioner was hurried away after our
hour's notice, on a warrant front the Secretary of
State, having diains pnt on his hands and feet,
winds, however, on his remonstrating, the Officer
said might just appear on him.
Lind FotatsTone—" Tins is a necessary collie-
tience of the Act of Suspension—these bids are
highly deserving of the attention of the House, not
to attend to them will be a dereliction of their duty.
I mean to move for a Committee of the House to
moune into the matter of the Petition."

Mr. BEN NETT said, that this system.was not eon-
tined in its operations to one individual ; he would
wish that he had the petitions of other individuals
who had been similarly treated—loaded with irmis,
mid thrown into damp unwholsome dungeons. As
a Representative of the people of England, he was
I nil to iiiquire Imo the grievances of the people
of England."
Lord CASTLEREA GH said, that the most epistle
course with respect to this petition would be to
give notice of a time.
Lord FotaisToria; then presented another Peti-
tion from the same person, and certain inhatiotilldB
'A the town of Nottingham.
It ails renal, and averred, that the first com-
pliant:int was a man of peaccablii, iirriong,

trious habits, incapable of forming dangerous or
treasonable designs.
Lord For.RaTostr. gave notice of a motion for a
cmottlittvo or the House on Thursday next, to
take. Into consideration the mailer of these Petitions.
Lord MILTON presesited a Petition from the in-
habitants of the town of Leeds, praying for the
advantage of gas lights.
Lord A. HAMILTON desired to learn from the
Noble Lord, whether he meant to lay before the
House papers relating in the Reform at Montrose;
mid (us we understood) gave notice of a motion for
the production of these papers on the Wilt of Fe-
bruary.
Mr. BENNETT presented a Petition from the
parish of St. Andrew's, Holborn, against the fur-
ther employment of Climbing Boys.
Mr. V. FITZGERALD" I rise to give notice of
motion for a Bill to suspend the operation, for a
certain time, of part of a Bill passed last Session,
for the more deliberate investigation of County
Presentments, xllll the expenditure on county-works
in Ireland—that pot which directs the appointment
of surveyors for the different counties to examine
and report on works. Nearly 100 persons applied
for these situations, but so few were found duly
qualified, that the Board constituted to examine
their pretensions, declined granting soy crrtiticatrs,
■nd advised the suspension of this part of the Act."
Mr. AaEacaomaY--"Phe former system that
hag prevailed in Ireland, has been one of extiensive
jobbing. The llon. Gentleman's speech did tint
Indicate any design on the part of that Governinent
to take tip the business seriously. A vast deal of
trouble was taken nit this head last Sersimt ; the
only measure that resulted from that, was a Bill now
advised to be suspended without any siihstitute pro-
posed. I am confident of the candour of the Right
Hon. Gentleman. I would be glad to learn, whether
any pains were actually and holm fide taken by the
proper authorities, to give effect to the provisions
of the Bill. Oise would expect that in Ireland,
when it was known there were conaortuble plAct.%
to be disposed of, there would he crowds of candi-
dates. lam sorry there have not been more. Vas
stifficient notice given to the well-qualified ? If
Gentlemen will step forward with another Bill. Boil
give it effectual support, I will agree to the suspen-
sion of the present one ; but if the affair be left
afloat, to be taken up by any body, I must with-
hold my assent from the measure contemplated."
Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD expressed his resolu-
tion not to withdraw his attention front thy subject,
but to bring forward another fill in the course of
the Session.

Mr. vindicated the conduct of the Irish
Government against the insinuations of the Ulm.
Gentleman. The Act had empowered the appoint-
ment of county surveyors, with a salary of ;bg.
and, in smile cases, not less thin% 5001. a-year ; the
whole ore of these consisted iii their competency.
The Lord Lieutettatit hart accordingly appointed
three Commissioners, avoiding all persons inter-
ested. The ottly iiistructions given to these were
to examine qualiticatioiis iinpartially—and to select,
with a view to merit, only 32 candidates; that local
connections and reco iiiii endations would he. an ob.
jrction. The Commissioners were, NI r.Teltivil, who
had been iirevailtol upon to come Irmo Seni LI. 14
that purpose ;11ajor Taylor; and Ali.. Johnson, t lie
architect. For weeks they devoted tram eight to
wine hours a-day to the pet formative of the duty
assigned them. Nitietv-five candidates lippeared,
but those of great abilities would not bestow the
time required, and withdrew their names. Of those
who remained, the Board asserted an taw were
possessed of the neces.ary experience and !aria bell
knowledge, that they deemtd it their duty to re-
commend the suspension of the operation of this
part of the Act. Tilli officer is entirely instru-
mental to give effect to the duller parts of the Act.
The suspension was only intended to continue till
the end of the Session.

ADERCROMBY—" The !louse must now be
sitisti-il of the i•incerity and exertions of the Irish
Government."

Sir JUNKY FArtiset.z. stated, that when he dis-
cussed this subject on a former occasion with the
Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (\lr. Peel),
they both fully concurred in the necessity of there
being an effectual control on the amoduitment of
the county surveyors, en us to have efficient per-
sons to discharge the responsible ditties assigned to
them ler the Act. He by no means concurred
in the reason that the Act should be suspended,
because persons could not he got to fill these
offices, though there was certainly something in the
allusion made to presentments loving only received
at the Summer Assizes. It' some steps were not
taken to secure an efficient control over the pecu-
niary expenditure of the counties, the whole spirit
of the former Act would be evaded!. He would
undertake to say, that many persons, to fill the
office of surveyor, would be found!, if the enjoin-
!need attached to it was more generally known.
For instance, the gentleman who superintended and
manned the great works on the new Holyhead
rood, and who would be competent to fill any of
these officer, was content to devote his services in
this way fur 130/. a-year, and so. a-day for Ins ex-
penses, while irersontally on the spot. ile was quite
satisfisd that if no effectual control were had upon
the Grand Jury presentments in Ireland, the fast
Act would produce no one benefit to the country,
With reference to these matters in Ireland, he had
no hesitation in saying, that the Weise had no con-
ception of the nature and extent of the abuses now
existing in that country. The Report on winch the
last Act war founded, presented nothing like the
whole of the ease; if this were developed, the I louse,
he was convinced, would not delay one instant the
application of an adequate remedy. The real fact
was, that there was use species of fraud, trick, and
perjury, which it was not the practice to resort to
lit the course of these presentments. This state of
thugs, no man connected with the proceedings in
Ireland, could deity, and when the aunts levied by
such means exceeded half a million a year, the
House would see the necessity of probing the mat-
ter to the bottom. It was the usual practice, he
feared, to look too much towards the men who
procured the presentenrots, and too little towards
those who had to pay for them; great discontent
was the consequence of such a system in Ireland,
and there was no species of taxation fell more op-
pressively thins this on the community. They were
willing to pay a fair contribution, but the I-inn--
idly felt a strong prejudice agaitist the wln.ie ;1.111(11
lury system, when they said the manner nn elm. 11