The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-23 00:00:00

NATIONAL EDUCATION.

Sir J. PAKINGTON said his Education Bill
was, one of the adjourned orders which had already
been referred to ; and to-night bad been fixed for its
further discussion. But he was anticipated by a notice
of motion for a debate on the motion before the
house ; and he could not refrain from saying that
this practice, which had become so frequent of late, was
a great abuse of the forms of the house, and one cause
of the great delay in public business which had.
just been complained of ; and he could not help
hoping that the house would revert to a sounder prac-
tice. He wished to ask no favour of the noble lord at
the head of the Government. As an opponent he had no
right to do so, and he begged to state therefore that the
question he was about to put to the noble lord
was based upon public considerations alone. It
was not conducive to the proper estate of the
public that bills of this nature should be left in the con-
dition in which they at present stood. Any person who
asserted that the present state of education was satisfac-
tory must be prepared to maintain that a large body of
official men, clergymen, and others were leagued together
in a conspiracy to mislead the country on this question.
(Hear, hear.) Sir John then referred to the three
bills introduced on the question, and submitted it
was necessary, if Government really was in earnest on
this question, to allow some progress to be made with
these bills, and the decision of Parliament ascertained,
that might result in one bill being compiled from them
for introduction in the next session of Parliament.
Mr. HADFIELD thought the speech of the right
hon. baronet might be considered the funeral sermon of
his bill. He considered the subject of educating the
people of England was too vast a question for him to
undertake to settle, and was of opinion that he had done
great mischief to the cause of education by the intro-
duction of his bill. He charged the right honourable
baronet with having misled the house with regard s
to the state of education in this country, and con-
tended that placing the education of the people under the
inspection of Government ought not to be permitted.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the right hon. baronet oppo-
site was not in fault, nor did he think the Government
or the house were in fault, that the right hon. baronet's
bill had net been pressed forward, and a decision
come to on it, because there had been topics
of overwhelming interest brought before them. What-
ever the right hon. baronet might think of the
motion of the hon. member for Aylesbury, there could
be no question but it was one of very great interest to
the country. (Hear.) The right hon. baronet only
asked that his bill, and the other two bills now before
the house should pass their second reading" in order
that they might be sent before a select committee. That
' being the course he (Lord J. Russell) did not think the
right hon. baronet could expect the Government to appoint
an early day for the consideration of his bill, there being
so many measures of pressing importance requiring the
attention of the house in order that they might be sent
in time to the upper house. At the same time, he
thought there might be a day found before the atten-
dance of hon, members was likely to be rather thin
when this question might be further discussed. (Hear,
hear.) He thought it was important to hon. mem-
bers who were in favour of the voluntary principle,
who had not yet taken part in this debate, that an op.
portunity should he given them to state their sentiments
and feelings on this question ; because they were, in
fact, the most powerful opponents not only to the right
hon. baronet's bill, but others on this question. (Hear.)
The voluntary efforts of individuals had gained a great
deal, but they were not sufficient for the effectual edu-
cation of the people. He was likewise of
ra iprciehiami
for
eetdhthuaet
:.
the measures adopted by the Board of the Committee
ofca tPiorni7buCtotuhnecyil
werefor Educationunablet
done
completely
ignorance thats pervaded
a uthe
sehe
largearigt hon,
(Lord j
portion
hRa
ur ost f
s.
e blt
lah)
de
wepeople.
r(Hateeadri)hisHcae thoughte be
from thinking that the voluntary effo.rts of individuals,
combined with the grants of money by that house for
r-aucctae
the purposes of education, had produced no great
impression on the ignorance that formerly prevailed.
(Hear.) He likewise thou ht that the education now
given—pre
P character
erdatrio ; 11
but. wa
g
pre-educa-
tion which was given by the Government on certain
principles, and limited to certain branches of knowledge.
doifdtnhoet call that vaiu most substantial and
On the contrary, he called that pre-education given by
parents to their children who attended the schools
the parents most
the parents
that kind. of religious • teachinglapproved of, and obtained
t
this country superior that of the continental nations
also
of opinion Whilst they
was
wished. In that respect he considered the education of
(Hear, hear.)
it by adopting a system of rating. (Hear.)
might extend
preserved all that was valuable in their education they
On so important and grave a question he thought
it would be sufficient this year if the house came to a de-
' cision on the principle, and in the following, year
decide how that principle should be carried out.
After some discussion, the motion was agreed to:
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE,
Mr. STANLEY addressed the Speaker, and said
he gave notice yesterday of certain questions which

he intended to address that evening to the Under
Secretary for War. Those questions had been
handed by him to the clerk at the table ; but
on looking at the " paper " that evening he found
the most important portions of those questions had been
left out. The question had reference to the conduct of
the superior officers and others concerned in the late
" practical jokes" and " sham duel," between officers of
the cavalry depot at Canterbury. He wished to know
if the clerks had power to omit portions of notices placed
in their hands by hon. members ? (Hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER replied that the clerks were justified
in omitting whatever appeared to them to be irregular.
It was irregular that anything in the shape of argument
should be inserted in the notices ; and it was most de-
sirable that those notices should be as brief as possible.
(Hear, hear.) He (the Speaker) had not seen this no-
tice ; but he had no doubt the portion omitted was ir-
gular. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. F. PEEL said he only saw the notice in the form
in which it appeared on the paper. (A laugh.)
The subject then dropped.
Lord H. VANE, reverting to the topic of education,
said some more definite answer should be given to
the question of the right hon. baronet (Sir J. Pakington)
than had been given. (Cries of " order.")
SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SCOTLAND.
Mr. MACGREGOR rose to move that "it is expe-
dient that the office of Secretary of State for Scotland be
re-instituted," but was met with loud cries of " question"
and " order."
Sir J. PAKINGTON rose to order. The question
before hon. members was the adjournment of the house,
and no other motion could be regular until that was dis-
posed of.
Mr. MACGREGOR—I am going to speak on the
motion for adjournment. (Oh, oh.)
The SPEAKER—The hon. gentleman is quite in
order in speaking to the motion of adjournment. How-
ever, should he conclude with any amendment it will be
irregular, and it will be my duty to call him to order.
Mr. MACGREGOR—I will speak on the question of
adjournment. (Cries of " agreed.") Now, with respect
to the administration of public affairs in Scotland. (Cries
of "oh, oh-') He contended the question was as regu-
lar as that of education just introduced by the right hon.
baronet (Sir J. Pakington). (Oh, ob,, and interrup-
tion.) He objected as much as any person to delaying
the time of the house. (Oh, oh, and laughter, and pro-
longed interruption, amid which the hon. gentleman
threatened to move the immediate adjournment of the
house.) At the union of the two kingdoms, continued
the hon. gentleman. (Oh, oh, and laughter.) Now, if
these interruptions were persevered in, he should go into
the most minute details. (Great laughter and confusion,
amid which the hon. gentleman proceeded to sketch the
history of the union of Scotland and England, by which
act Scotland was entitled to a Secretary and Under Se-
cretary.) The secretaryship had fallen into disuse, but
the office had not been abolished. He would be con-
tent to accept an Under Secretary, acting in conjunc-
tion with the Home Secretary; for he insisted it was
impossible the Lord Advocate could attend to the admi-
nistrative affairs of Scotland without utterly neglecting
his professional duties.

The LORD ADVOCATE said, if the present were a
fitting time and season he should be glad to discuss the
question with his hon. friend ; but, as it was not, he
thought it better the regular business of the house should
be proceeded with. (Hear, hear.)