The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1818-05-15 00:00:00

At nature,
mations like
attire—one of the tumors% of which was to be at-
tached to the meat roollite d/ business, and averse
to entertaining any new projects. rem. C4Hlfiril•
lions he had held with umiak scientific men since
the last disrusiiion of the subject. he entertained
mach more sanguine hopes thou he had then, of
the posoilaitey of et lent mitigatieg the was sorry
he enlist asee say easeeing) the crime. In A merits
thee wee a paper curtency to the anoint of ',ropey
or thirtz She was the second country in
the maven,. as to extent of paper currency,
es she was in Aiming; soil CONNIIreII ; yet there, in
nowt of the paean/ea. woe by the genera hes of the
couotry. was forgery a capital crime. The conse-
quence was. that the national ail provivaal books,
uot being protected by the terror of the 'ribber,
bed been impelhed to invests. and did invent,
.very effrcteal ebetiocke to the imitation of their
Veen. But had not the Rank of England neglect-
id scientific aid ? He kad been lately told
by a man of science, that a boy bet six months
apprentice to an engraver could imitate the Rank
of Euglaud stoles, as as to deceive, not the Bank
(they took good cure of that), but the body of
the people. He had heard that the formation of the
Bank of Bugled Notes required scarcely any env-
tits of art.—(lierw.l--oThe reasoniog of the Bank
seemed to be, since the crime cannot be eradicated,
siscwit ia impossible utterly and entirely to prevent
the forgery of notes, no. step whatever ought to be
taken. He tisooght ditereatly ; he thseght that
the serenest diminutes of the practice would be the
resent netieuutheisellt.—filerre.j—The inertia*
of forgeries produced an increase of other crispers,
for it was the mature of them to multiply use
another. Bet the crime of forgery not only di&
footed depravity anent it, bet spread its toils far
these that would sewer be tempted by other crimes.
Other aims Sr their esecutioo required boldness
and etresith, bet this enured to its commission
rionsei, wrillse., sY Mak and persons of a certain
deposer odueseioes. It was with surprise he would
hest of.eny preset daises of opposing his motioo,
mid would there/are at once move—
' That a Select Oessailhas le appointed to !squire into
the mesas of men sffednally the growth of
freigeriss, sad repel doer eiservatimis I. tine Ilmiss."
The motion having bass put frost the Chair—.
The CaeNceuus of the EICIIIQIIIII thought
the Hen. and Learned Gentleman had not proposed
that mode of inquiry whose result would be most
satisfactory to the House. The inquiry was loot,
laborious, sod diffecolt, demanding more constant
stogies. sad priest assiduity, than could be
reosonably expected from a Committee of the
House ; besides, much iofonestiou would be ow-
emery in the course of it, and an examination of
artists must be carried on. His object. however, in
rising, was, not to oppose the motion, bet to propose
an aaseadasent for an Address of the House to the
Crown for the appointment of • Commission. with a
view to obtain a more complete inquiry, and a more
satisfactory result, than could be had in the other
way. With respect to the improvements spoken
of, he had considered the subject himself, and the
more be did so, the more difficulties presented
themselves. lo plan that be had seem, de.
feets either struck himself, or had been posited
out to him by other*: no radical remedy was to
be enpected. Before be came to the proper object
of his rising. he could not forbear making • few re-
marks on the statements sale by the Hon. and
Learned Mover, regarding the progress of the
crime. and he regretted that such exaggerated
pictures had been drawn of its increase. On
the growth and increase of the crime, he must
beg leave to submit to the House the deductions he
had made himself. From the statements of the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman, one would
be led to suppose, that, before the suspension of
cash payments, the crime was almost unknown. But).
the House would see with surprise.ou referring to,
the pipers. that executions for the crime of forgery:
bad beets as general in the middle of the last century-
se at the present day. In the years 1749, 50, and
51. the number of execntioua under that head was '
nineteen in London and Middlesex--whereas in the
last three years it was but le. The number of
convictions for forging and uttering Book notes,
knowing them to be forged. was 110 in the three
'yaws 1811, 14, and 13. In 1815, 16, and 17, it
was but 88, leaving a diminution in the three last
of 44.—[Herr the Right Hon. Gentleman went
through a variety of other details. to thew that for-
gery had not increased of late years, while coining
had.]—He thought the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman's reasoning was extremely fallacious,
in supposing that a return to cmli poymenrs
would necessarily enure a diminution of forgery.—
It would be seen that the crime of forgery had not
increased in the same proportion as other climes
since the suspension of cash psymeots, while the
crime of coining had increased in a greater dere&
What had token place was not imputable to say
negligence or want of proper precaution on the'
part of the Bonk Directors. He feared that
forgery was a natural consequence of educational
. Combined with craft and wickedness, and that
lila., (path of it woe to be trend to the ex-
amine of learning and the great 'thence of trade
and. oellietlree. But that CiteUtiallienee rather
made it a stronger duty to use every core, and
make every• effort to diminish it. Thinking. that
that end would be best attained by the measure
lie contemplated, he would propose the fullowiag
amendment—
That shis House do prooostito boot& Address is his
Royal Niemen the Prince Regent, preying that his Royal
Highweis will barmiest*/ planned So inane oats Coo_
Minna order the Groot lirol:to appetite Comotiosiotten to
impaise into the beet meson of peeves** the Pottery of the
Nowt of the Beak of Ewelwlld sad Priests Baas, aid
other rogoeiolde Itvordies."

Governors 'wear,* Imo the Frailties oflinmeo
or the habits costume to men M ►itnations lik

1:2

the Chancellor of the rectiegset To the Teat,
181 1, the satinkier of indictments fee the effeneg
was riot tees than 43 ; wits 033 in .11i 14,
ill 1811.71; itt 181, Ida ; iu 1817, 164 ;
the last three mouths. 11C He coridesnistil the isi-
terference of the Bank oitfi the criminal
,justice of
the country,' mad denied rite corrector's of the cal-
culation made by the Chaucellor of the Excliii'quer,
of the lithisho, .r ...euisons in the lam three yearn,
as compared with those in the years 1748, 17, and
1751 ; because, had the same strictures of ptittishing
the convicted been pursued iti 1815, 1016, and 101/.
as in the three former, the number, instead of
18, would be above 460. He had heard that when
anphcatiois was snide to the Crairlottyouto sapavredonthehillinfe.
of Ur. Dodd, it had been said, i f
you must perilous all such criminals who apply."
He supposed the Lime principles had been ap-
plied to decide the case of the usifortutiale
woman lately executed (Harriet Skelton), as both
the Bank and his Majesty's Government lad
been addressed on her behalf in vain. But why
was not the measure of justice dealt out equally
to all ? When two boys were compelled to answer
to the capital part of the charge, and convicted,
why was the seducer of there into crime allowed to
plead guilty, and Nwss man notorious for
every species of guilt, and connected with people
notoriously infamous. His uame, or rather out of
his names, was Thomson. He would mention en
anecdote, to show of bow little effect capital im-
nisluweuts were in deterring from crime. A little
boy discharged from prime, having no friend but
the gaoler, 110 r any means of procuring bread, was
discovered the duty after picking • pocket just
under the gallows while an execution was going on.
Beiug taken to prison, and asked what could in
him to commit inch an act at such a time, he
answered, that the 41 eyes of every body were fixed
on the victim before them, and that nobody minded
has pockets." He called upon the Bank Directors
to tell why the young and innocent were executed.
while the old and experienced in crime were suf.
fend to plead guilty P—(Hear.) —la his panegyric
on the Bank Directors, and statement of the few
prosecutions, the Right Honourable Gentleman
had forgotten, that in the last three mouths not less
than 114 persons had been convicted.—(hear)—He
hoped that the motion would meet general support.
Mr. S. Tigoarreou defended the conduct. of the
Bank, both with respect to the improvements sub-
mitted to them, of which they had made us much '
use as they could, and also the distinctions made
between offenders. The Directors were sincerely
anxious to extend mercy to the utmost limits pru-
dence would allow, sod the most merciful mitten.
lion was given by them to every individual case, in
order to determine on their comparative degrees of
guilt.
Mr. FIUtIttESON said, that the speech of the
Hon, Geutlensais who spoke last but one was excel-
hotly calculated to shew the impolicy of appointing
the Committee. That Hun. Gentleman would have
the Committee undertake to inquire into the admi-
nistration of the criminal law, and rejudge cases
already set at rest. Hon. Gentlemen should recol-
Wet the exalted character of those who administer
the laws, and whose province it is to recommend
mercy, where, ou full and impartial examination,
it appeared to be due, before they indulged in
inch observations as they had made—observations
calculated to lower these characters in public esti-
mation. He thought a Committee peculiarly
unfitted for the investigation desired. Indeed
the sort of investigation contemplated set only by
the Gentleman who had spoke last but ose, but also
by the ;never, was of • most extensive nature,
branching out into matters of very various de-
scription. But if the Committee was to lead to
measures to remedy and check the specific evil.
He thought it not the fittest mode of inquiry. The
period of the Session was too advsucvd for such a
Committee to produce any thing useful. if the
motion were carried, the Committee would only
recommend an address to the Crown—that would
be its only useful result come to a little later than
in the way suggested. He deprecated the exciting
of an improper commiseration for criminals exe-
cuted for forging. Bank notes, as if their crime had
been less than that of forging a will, or any in-
strument of tioquiring property. He would sup-
port the amendment, as likely to save time, and
more effectually arrive at the ends in view.
Mr. BENNETT explained.
Sir SAMUEL RONILLT roost for the pupae
of correcting souse misrepresesitations, with re-
spect to the observations of his Hon. Friend- (Mr.
Bennett). What that Hon. Gentleman had ob.
served was implacable rather to the effect of the per-
nicious system upon which the Bank acted. than
an attempt to level at the Bank Directors thenssrliree
any charge of cruelty in their mode of proceeding
with respect to criminals; nor had his observations
any tendency to reflect upon the character of that
Bench. the far-famed virtue and incorruptibility of
which might be truly said to be one of the moot
invaluable securities to Englishmen for the coati-
sausuce and perpetuity of their constitutional li-
berties—(heer)--,their tendency was to prove that
our lawn required revision. The system was bad,
and avowedly had, because it must be admitted
that a system of extending mercy to persons charged
with forgeries was now acted upon. net through the
Sovereign, but through the Bank. which selected
a certain number of cases for punishment in
preference to others; to whom it might therefore
be said, they extended pardon on condition (and a
more objectionable condition there could not be)
that these parties should forego the chance of
escaping by acquittal, and throw themselves on the
mercy of the Bank, by pleading guilty to hewing
these forged wiles •their possession. Perhaps
these powers Were honourably and generously ex-
ercised on the part of the Batik ; but enough had
I transpired as to the expression of the public feeling
and the sentistrent of the House, that the crime of
forgery was not one which should be uniformly
punished with death. He shosild, theretore, sup.
port the motion of Isis sou. Friend for a Select
I Committee.
Mr. liustistou explained.
General Gascoinns preferred. the more consth,
ttitioual mode of proceeding by s Comnisttere of the
lEfoosc ty that propOsed by the Right hloo. Ge.
Mum "Dorm wank happily hot one 01 most
persons di., that the dangerous sh•gree of con.
fidence reprised SO long in the Directory of the
Runk ought uo longer to be reposed to that body,
1h thought the possibility of a dissolution of Par.

The question haring been put on the original
inntion—
Sir C. MhIDAO WV thought a Select Committee
preferable to the course pointed out by the Hight
Honourable Gentleman. He war of opinion that
abundance of informatfun might'be obtained by it.
ee alluded' torhe strong statements on the subject
in the Birmingham Petition. mid concluded by
declaring, that he would moat cordially - support
the motion.
Mr. BEttNIPA'T said, the thanks of the House
were due to his Hon. rind Learn ert Friend for forcing
the attention of his Majesty's Government to the
subject.--(ilear, haer.)...fle defiled the justice of
the statements to thew a falling atria the offence by

. „,. , . •-, ... , •,..t lt ..'
••.• .
ljeinent came extremeljt 111 from Ntiniste.rs, who, if ttm:inate tilf.ne ffoici.htertinar..if it wits Meant lit
thi't•vesit tads Waco,: ntitet be ounp4dered its null:tiro. he t tleil ive in Ktiniiiik di flig)s *lnds oil ptuteteed
Mr. MANit't ha Iniill !inert) walls 4rein pant snit re..l to linve in Ninv. ~ vL;•1 ~ 0 ~ . .:•
' the diirg4 saide*.wilutt the L?.tretbut of the: • The floosie then diviaeol, when !be uoinbere
'-v as uuour4Ce .&Member (Mr. Beinieti). weri— ':' . .
,I suave the Allow* tw charge was al. Tor the Amendment .....!".. ..... 100
twitoundett. The Wank, be no-nteti the Azanist it - 69
. ... ..
never The

toseether _ ,
FtMl9O. . made,. any selettioti of, eases. ,
business of the isrosecutsow of offeudept devolved
on the Solicitor for the dusk. Most /parlous were
the Directors that the evil could be 'prevented, to
offset *hitt they *ere disposed to spare no expense
.or patios. A:peeing t t.f &hire .aistorst,were thetetase
incurred more for the interest of • the ,public
tilitit for the soctti.ty of thn flank: and ;Ph lime,'
lexpensei_ `fell upon the. Cot/SoiatiOn. , ' se
ewe of the exeCilllo4l lately for forty
iris one Optin which .citiatiolerabie stress load beets
laid ; but as the Bank meter interfertek-iia such
cases after proceediiigs, were once instituted, the
execution ,was the tietund result of the woittate.a
conviction; and in bli mind if ever their w:ts n, case
of aggravated offence, it was that of Linnet Shel-
ton. The returns upon which the Hon. and Learned
Gent. had proceeded to peers the House to adopt,
as the hest mode of priteredisig. a Select Cosnsnittee,
were obviously calculated; by their nature, to
delude the House, being from Novesuher to July,
and therefore including the iliKee Old Briley See.
*ions and Lent Assize's. whereby they were become
no longer a fair aversge, as contrasted with others of
equal duration, but of other mouths. He was cotes
viuced in his sitiod that the crime of fureerv.matuoths
standing what. lied beets said by sonic in debate that
uight. had becoMe !eel frequent, as contrasted with
the growth °father crimes. Nor was it to be wonder.
ed at that there should be a large number in the re-
turns of person, tried for forgery during the latter
years, when it was found that the general returns of
persons indicted _ for various
.offence.. in le l 1p
amounted to 6,337,0hi1itt its 1617 there were fount,
to be not less than 13,32, i 'proportion of nearly
three to one—of which last number of offenders it
was pretty well ascertained that three its four wet*
from Birmingham or its neighbourhood. The
Bank, ever since the year 1797. had been em-
ployed to find out or adopt those suggestions
of improvement which might render notes more
difficult to be imitated ; but, neverthelese;
they bed little meets; and one thing they had
considered particularly necessary, which was.
not to adopt auy improvement which they found
could be successfully imitated by their own en-
gravers in the splice of three days, us unlikely to
prove ao effectual remedy. He had further to
observe. that the Bank had found it necessary to
retain possession of forged notes, though stamped
forged, because when they had been returned to the
owners, they had found their way into circulation
again. the stamp denominating them forgeries har-
ing been extracted by means of a chemical process;
Sir CliAlLell MORGAN could not help explain•
ing how so great a number of forgeries had been
discovered to have been put into circulation by per.
sous et Birmingham. The returns alluded to rote.
taiised not lees than 13 cases out of the whole nuirt.t.
her; the Wale( of these note. had origivated iif
the circumstance of the officers there basnue epos*
on the market day a baker's shop. The 'perm*
having these netes flocked to the new ship, wipe.
they were immediately received. and the parties de,.
tected and prosecuted.
Sit Ammo, Prooorr entered into a long and
argumentative speech in defence of the Bunk
Directors in discharging the important and awful
duty imposed on them by their official situation.—
He could confidently state. from the knowledge of
the cases with which, from his intuition. he was

• .
•lkdortty roe 'fie Commission
• • • the crone ....•••k.... 44
On our. re-hdniiviirti, to Aloe csilery we found
Lord Cuurton proposing,' that thi• *olds ++ prim.
vile banks, bind other negotiable ‘e'curitire," should
he counted itilhe Arldiess.tei the'tiowir for the
• ponittriit of the Commission, as .was reidentlir
the oliket of the I that the inquiry should be
coolitied to Bank !rf, England notes, where alone
the evil rd
Mr. !beta Ste tru said he had agreed to the mode
of proceeding by a Ctisitinission from the, Crimp,
believing that to be the most efficieut ;course; but
lie vet-burly never.iiiteirried that the inquiry should
go further than the sphere Of the i.ed, or he cori
veiled into. a process, by, which Coisuni.sioners
should enter the boost-an, every private booker or
merchant in the kingdom, to recommend
an iot-
provement where no complaint of their Present Ay*.
tem existed.—(Hear, lieei.)—/f the Right nosh
Gentleman persevered in wiihiu the original words
to remain, he (Mr. Smith) would certainty vole fur
the Noble Lord's motion, to emit therm—(/fear.)
Lord CArei.Eirt:Abit denied that the Commission
was intruded to make any inquisitorial *airy judo
the private+ affairs of tile Bank of c...griand; how
then could it •be said to. have this Operation upon
private hunks ?—(//eur.f—The object of preserving
the original worths, • *us merely that the inquiry
should have the (till Invite which would make it
generally beneficial, Ind not invidiously select. •
Mr. TleArrisit—++ loct is, the Directors of
the Bank do not feel thetuselirts.well treated by the
Right Hon. Gentleman. who has departed from his
natialcourtesy towatdi them:—(A, lasogh,)a-He has
accommodated them in theeir owls way hitherto,
but now, to use ,te, forcible expresuuns he was
obliged to throw them overboard.—(.4 krugh.)—•
4 WO, then,' *aye the Right Hon. Gentleman to
the Bank Directors, • I'll ariften (limo .this busi.:
peas for yon, and will, by gesieroliiing the iniviry,
appose they are all as bad as yourselves.',--(Alitek
haighter.).—All this was very well for the Choice's.
for of the Exchequer to suppoae, but the douse C 0,114
*oppose no ouch thing—they could not so soften
down the rustler to the Batik Directors to extend
the evil where it never existed.—{:Hear.)—Now,
however, ill the DOW', private and .public, were
to be looked ob alike. Did the Right Mu. Gentle.?
MOO then mean, contrary to his notable plan. tq
put country paper on the saute footing as the twos
Of the Batik? If he, did, let him speak openly.
I beg to tender him my nieistanee in his. ;priest
state. I tell him that his Commission; witli.the,tlo
tension to country paper, will be either titigairory,
or do more harni than good. The only way he hoe
of getting out of ' the scrape is, tci.oiatit the objet.
tionable•words, and have recourse to the old expel
client of saying, he was under a mistake."—(Loars
Mr. LeTTELTON felt that to include the Country
'Sacks in the scope of ettisi inquiry woe o estnior-
dinory a proceeding, withotit that regular aud due
notice which would put the country at large in pod
session of such tio intention, that, if persevered in,
he would instantly move the question of wijouru.
meet, and persevere (if carried against him) in re.
pealing it as often as the measure was proposed
without sufficient notice:-( iferrri
•
The question oo the . •
-uncut .was then put.

tolerably conversant, that the Bank outhorised no
proceedings except as they were themmlites ad.
wised by their legal advisers. He found that much
of the debate of that night would tend rather to
delude than to inform the public. and calumniate
those who are most sedulously attentive to the tree
iotereats of society. .
Mr. Was. Soren did not doubt the diegoskjam,
on the partofthe Bank to temper justice with WIMP
He knew it was extremely difficult to prevent the
currency of forged notes. but he thought it
rather herd the Bank did not Ripply the public
with that knowledge which themselves pos.

i •
, adjouruL__ .....
-
mud the 'Masse about to divide. when .
Mr. LirrvaLtos withdrew his motion. until he
sicertained the fate off' Lord Coroptoief propositiou.
Mr. Paws*Euos matd see no possible reason for
attending the inquiry of the Commissioners to the
bills and bonds of tuerchimtv, for what elAe did this
isrordit 1, cud other negotiable securities"•. niesu I
There was uo complaint reletite to, their securities.
Commercial uses wauk.d uo alteration iutheir 'node
of transecunw business, and he would decidedly oh-
jeel to hive this labour superailded to the inquiry
of the Cominimionere—the result would be.. that
had 'Toted
- would

they
seared. and which- might enable the public to•
detect bad notes. He aistanced the paper dollars
of America sod Scotch bank notes, as similarly
circumstanced; yet these countries had nut to
complain of their note* being forged,
Mr. CANNING felt be malt prefer the appoint-
ment of a Royal Commission, as the anode Watt
likely to prove effectual. The proportion of the
last speaker it was impossible to bear and not
smile; for how could the Batik afford the public
the incense( ascertaining the forged note, without
assisting the parties committing the forgeries with
means to direct their mischievous operations in
forte ? All that had ever yet hero suggested
was, to reader them plates or impressions extremely •
elaborate and • difficult of imitation. Much ex.•
aggeration, he feared; ,had crept into this night's,
debate; although he confessed there was already a
too abundant crop of crime this instance .as,
well as in other, but it ftertainly had not" in.'
creased in the time proportion as other crimes.
He hoped the exerptie of this best prerogative of
the Crown. so far as the Bank had shared in it, had
been • discreet and cautious exercise, and had in
some instances had its good effect on persons thus
exempted from punitliment, from a Conviction
that the offender was reclsierigble. and . had .yet
sufficiently strong ties to society,,, and that. all pro-
mising traits in his character were not erased, ea
as to render him no longer tit to (it permitted
to breath the air in common with. his fellow.
creatures. This.exasiptiou be thoold mach rather
bare beard denominated (whether.it proceeded-front
the Crown; or ematiated in p aon4siosecution on the
part of the Bank) an exemptioo to sere, than state it
in the nature of a selection of cases to condemn ton
death. This would have been rather more spited
to. the subject, than to 'ablest a case where fogey
was extended by the errivro as a elope of blame or
reproach to the high authority from whiCh it bad
eliminated.
Sir lire's Mecifiriven., in reply, oirservid chat
sitihrers and collusion, rather than bold slid
ai-
fire indepeutleirce, wotild; he figured; be looked to an
the e'ets or CoUttnissioutre appointd Is, the trtivrn:
and such Commissioners were never before thought
of in inquiries into general business of such a mature
es this. The appointment for the inquiry ehoald

their labours Most be intertninable. He .
for the Commission by the Crown, but he
object to its extension in the nisnner,propoued.
The Ctitritsitsitof the EXcuxquea said, that
bills sod bonds of merchaists were not to be in..
quired into iis the manner supposed. It was merely
nitended to look after engraved promissory notes.
Mr.- GEPPI aired, viliether the Cominissiouers
were to have a comtmlsory power to carry into
elrect this extends;d inquiry ? .
The Citaxcem.on of the Eicaro.treit replied:
that no compuloo% power wee intended..
Mr, Wu. Seers thought the
.project• of the
Right Hon. Gentleman the most extraordinary said
unrolled fur, that, had ever entered into the head
of any man.—(Hear.)
The House then divided, when the numbers
For retsisiog the original .words,
rare Lamb aid oder itooishabls *seer&
tie, •
Against their imsertios;
.. .
Majority. or the Chancellor of the
. Exchequer
1 _Agit streogers were excluded. Mr Loner.soodiesteused Ins minion, g' That the House do
doWildjoiko."
•.
The CHANcEL;OII Of, the macniquita thin;
agreed to leave out the words ler continuing the
insertion of which' hi had just divided the HOW!,
mild obtained ..a ptatiority# AL-(Lewd cries of
Hear, and fatighifet.)•
p. . ;
.on,ue re-admission tistttegirilete, we found the'
Soxtrif sit dellveetug IsiSepteiosi‘ihe way in which
the question stool. lie stored than in his opinion,.
the House hating agieed to yeti's; the original
words, they could not be•note withdrawn.— (Hear.)
—Ti.i only coy*, theft reasainsug errs, to tiegutiso•
the Addreas,aTtogether, and substitute another
'titian Iles *mill which it was now suggested to
oinit:—(Heer. bear.)
Mr. Vrir.tip inquire whethertha Home might
not refritini. the latter words without negativing the
whole Address? •
The SPRAILEIk thrtught it would be quite incon.
intent to adopt ally other ccritt.e shorten ao
new A (Id' es.d. Bear./
The ClLiNClti.toit the EXCHSOCIIII....`

Yk

entirely
•
•
/