The National Register.
London, England, 1811-01-06 00:00:00

THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

. .
son of the Kin should go together. The domestic establish-
ment of his l'.4ajesty was not merely for the display of a Regal
dignity, but in 'a great measure fur the enjoyment of domestic
comforts, and the seperation of that establishment from the Per•
sonage, who had, by every consideration of propriety and nature
the care of the Royal Person, would be adopting a new and inju-
rious system. He earnestly conjured their Lordships not to
take a step, which in the event of his Majesty's recovery, would
exhibit to his view a crowd of d:'mcstic strangers.—He 'At that
he could not agree to the ;fifth Reselution, as sent up from the
other House: the four first Reno'.; Lions ha,d his perfect concut-
rence, but it would he necessary to amend the filth. Notwith-
standing, for the sake of agreement, for unanimity sake, he was
not altogether unwilling to put the power of removing the supe-
rior officers of the Househole) respecting her Mojesty, for some
limited portion of time; nor (lid he apprehend any imputation
of jealousy on the part of the Royal Personage.--Telis Lordship
concluded with moving the first Resolution, which was read
accordingly by one of the Clerks of the le ouse.
Lord CARLISLE decidedly objected to passing the Resolutions
as they now stood. The Noble Earl (Liverpool), appeared to
consider the precedent of 1783, as decisive, and triumphantly
assumed the approbation with which that proces!ing, if a pro-
ceeding it was, was universally reeeived. Was this, however,
the fact. Nut only had this latter precedent never been acted
upon, but, as their Lordships must know, it had never been
sanctioned by the ' °°use of Lards. Is was, therefore, no prece-
dent ; and he would rather select an,/ precedent than that of
1788. He would entreat their Lords!ops rot by their resolutions
to render the office of Regent irksome and impracticable.
The Marquis of LAN SDOWNE declared it impossible for him
to assent even to the first of the five Resolutions, without de-
taching from the including words. The very first Resolution
would, if carried, lead to the most injurious consequences ; and
would erect a power, unknown to the laws of this land, un-
known to the Constitution of the country, unknown to the
usages of the Constitution Hear ! ).—Chicf Justice Fortescue,
no mean authority in point, lore since contended, that the pre-
rogatives of the Crown were indispensable' to its constitutional
operations; now, if these prerogatives were indispensible to the
Crown, when worn by the King, they must be equally neces-
sary to the power of the Regent. But what were their Lord-
ships called upon to vote ?—Tleat those identical prerogatives
amounted to nothing. By the Resolutions the pew( rof punish-
ing the most ungracious attribute of stem, was to be invested in
the Regent : but the power of rewarding merit was to be sus-
pended ! Refusing to the Regent the power of creating Peers,
they were weakening the power of controul over the Lower
House, and deranging the balance of the Constitution. Stand-
ing, as it were, on the wreck of the Constitution, ah idst
and billows, these tempests which had assailed and destroyed
other States, would they refuse the only rudder by which they
could hope to reach the desired harbour ? As to the superior
Officers of the Household of the Sovereign, it was notorious
that they were alike incapable of sc: ving
or seeing the Kiiie; nor
could he think, considering what had fallen from the Noble
Earl (Liverpool), respecting his Majesty's willinge ss 3 to sacri-
fice his own converiencies subject to the wishes to his people;
he could not think, that the King, upon his " complete re-
covery"—(Heor !)—would be displeased at any such sacrifice to
the Constitution of the realm. With respect to precedents, un-
affected by all that had been said upon that of 1783-9, he still
conceived it to be defective, inapplicable, and inexpedient for
1811. He therefore objected to the concluding'. art of the first
Resolution, and wished the fifth to remain as amended. Pre-
paratory to this, he should now move to omit all that part of the
first Resolution, connected with and following the words " sub-
ject to such limitations and restrictions as shad be provided," &c.
Viscount Sinetourn declared that the Constitution had de-
vised and provided the means of supplying accidental deficiency
in the Royal Authority, placing that duty in their Lordships and
the House of Commons. Such being the fact, and from the
report of the Physicians which gave hopes of speedy recovery,
his Lordship contended at considerable length that they had to
provide for a temporary deficiency, and consequently that they
ought to limit and restrict the Regent in the exercise of the Royal
Functions during such " tempura-1y deficit ncy" in the Kingly
Office. A Regency without restrictions was that on which
they could not legislate. On the subject of the household, how-
ever, there seemed to be a great contraticty of opinion; and
there was a material difference between that Resolution as it
originally stood, and the shape in which it now came before
them. He should have been well :etisfied to have adopted the
original Resolution, but thought that the material objections to
it were obviated by the proposition of the Noble l.4ecretery•of
State. The precedent of 1788, be contended, had received thp
senction of the King, the approbation of both Houses of Parli-
ament, and the applauding voice of the whole country; and if
individual authorities were of any weight upon this point, how-
ever better they might be capable oi judging £us themselves

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-.--•dgeh...Aolo9/reti:A.l‘-- •
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ecy to the authority t.. Regentstmid also .
prerogative which should properly belong t 0 this high station,
without entrenching too much, so as to endengerethe- return of
the Royal Authority, that he ga4e his warm approbation to the
four first Resolutions, .
. Lord .ER KIN G agreed that the first step to be established
leas, the King's incapacity to exercise the fuoctions of royalty ;
but having established that fact, upon
i whatprinciple was it that
should proceed to fill up the vacuum the Royal Autho-
rity ? Was it not then the bounden duty tel fill up the deficien-
cy.? But it was contended, that giving unlimited authority to
the Regent, they et ere throwing difficulties in the way of the re-
turn of die Sovereign to the resumption of his Royal Authority.
His Majesty had the highest of all securities; he had the secu-
rity of his Parliament for his return, when he had recovered the
fail use of his faculties. He contended, that the King's incapa-
city being established, it became the duty of the States of the
Realm to supply the place of the Royal Authority, and to give
effect to it in all its functions; to but the country in the same
state it was before such a calamity took place. Upon what foun-
dation would they alter in any manner the functions of the Re-
gal Authority ? What c( :isoletiun must it be to the Royal mind,
.on his recovery, to find that the Heir Apparent of the Crown
. had been vested with the Royal Authority, and given full cflect
to the Government of his kingdom. Had Mr. Pitt lived in these
tunes, he was convinced his vast and comprehensive mind
would have approved of such a measure--lie would have been
one of the first to carry it into execution. For these reasons,
and upon the general principle and constitutional grounds, he
could not agree to these Resolutions, but should give his decided
support to the Amendment.
-The i.e RD CHANCELLOR observed, in no part of the Consti-
tution, in no part of the history of this country could he find that
a Regent had ever been appointed without conditions, limita-
tions, and restrictions. The 24th Geo. 11. provided for a Re-
gency, during a minority of six years, with limitations, restric-
tions, anti conditions. fhe 4th of Geo. H. provided for a
Re-
gency, which Was to continue 12 years, also with conditions, li-
mitations, and restrictioes. The same use was made of these
in 1788-9, as was made of the precedent of 178 E-9, in 1811.—
The great lawyers of that day, and perhaps as great men as ever
. walked Westminster Hall, among whom were to be found the
names of Lord.Hardwieke, Lord Mansfield, and other great
men, were of the same opinion. He was the subject of a lintited
Tel onerchy, and he never could consent to the appointment of a
Representative of that lonareby without conditions, limitation;
arid restrictions, because it was the glory and boast of the Con-
stitution of this country to have a .tionarchy limited and re-
strained, and he would maintain it, if he was sinking into the
grave, that if these Resolutions were then to pass as they were
then framed, his Majesty would not have the affections of even
the meanest of his subjects. He felt he could not do a greater
violence, °rite guilty of a greater breach of his duty to the Kin:
and the Throne, than by consenting to the proposed Amend-
meet, and this last Resolution.
SPENCER then rose. The Resolutions met with his de-
cided disapprobation ; and he complained bitterly of the pro- .
traction that had taken place in cOnsequence of the proceedillgs
of Minister s. The proposal tor restricting the Regent was with-
, out a precedent; 40 one. of the Regencies recorded in English
history had.heen restricted or !linked in the exercise of the func-
tions of Royalty. Though there may have been Councils ap-
pointed to assist the Regent, still the powers of Royalty, the
preregativc of creating peers existed in some way or other, ei-
ther in one Regent, (win theeßegentand Council : and that was
eilongh to establish Lie argument that no Regency had ever ex-
isted but what had the power-of exercising all the Royal Prero-
gatives. He knew well the use of those great prerogatives, and
coueidered them of too much value to al ow of their being sus-
pended, as )vies proposed by the Resolutions. He approved of
the Ainteuln.elle

The Dux?. or Niba oi.x spoke against the Resolutions, and
maintained ti.a: great inconveniences. might arise if the "rinse
of Wales, us isegent, had not a c.fintraid over the
HOLISt? u)1(1.
1.0 H.11.1.A ND spoke at coii side' rabteiength against the Re-
,, solutions, acid in support,of the Aine.admeut.
Lord finaauwsv stippol:ted the Ritsotutionl.
Lord els v row. He never cinihi alitiie" himself with
dcha,ing. Idea,. that a man shouill,in duty act disso..
. nant.to pr.v.!te ferlinfo;, Ift:was thus abindoning he princi-
. Isles ilivlantc d in hini by tiltirrt,t, and saying to " I
scorn thy dictates." lle dihered to those cfrincifil.;s lir had br-

REGISTER

fore maintained; they were the principles his heart approved in
private; and he was proud of keeping teethe integrity of his pri-
vate thoughts in his public life. He csatild not think it proper to
have an unlimited itegenty ; it wad-coming on a level with the
the Monarchy, and exalting a Regent at the expence of the
Royal Prerogative. He adverted to the Manifest difference
between the powers which the Regent was to have in 1788, and
those proposed at the present times; had he lost in the public
opinion ? He wai not averse to restrictions, such as were really
expedient. On the proposition of giving liberty for beao wing
Naval and Military honours he must object; did none deserve
such signal notice, was there no act of human genius worthy of
being honoured except Naval and Military heroes ? it is one of
the noblest springs of British greatness, that the roaa to honour
is alike free to all—from the humble cottager to the highest pitch
of hereditary greatness. Many of the richest gems of the nation
have shone in the shade; he would not wish to have the path of
honour circumscribed, it should either be open to all, or shut to
all—he deemed the restrictions in the Peerage proper, because it
was a permanency—he wished to have a something to distin-
guish to other nations, and to our own, the difference between a
King and a Regent. -
Lord LIVE a root 'replied at considerable length to Lord Gren-
ville, and was willing to omit those words in the limitations
which allowed the honours of the Peerage to naval and military
heroes alone.

Lord HOLLAND made a few observations on Lord Liver-
p vas spt ech.
A Division was then called for, when the Question was put
upon the Amendment of the Marquis of Luasdowne to the
iirst Resolution—

For it, 103; against it, 102—Majority against Ministers-6.
Lord Liv Pool. then proposed an Amendment to the second
Resolution, with respect to the restriction of the Regent in
granting Peerages, by which he met the wishes of Lord Gren-
ville, by omitting the power given to the Regent to appoint
Peers in cases of naval or military achievements, and extending
the restrictions generally to the grant of Peerages.
For the Amendment, 106 ; against it,loo—Majority in favour
of Ministers-6.
The Third and Fourth Resolutions were carried without a
division.

On the question being put on the Fifth Resolution respecting
the 'lousehold,
_ . . .

Lord Liv R root. moved an Amendment, placing on precisely
the same footing as proposed in the House of Commons, in the
first instance by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
In favour of the Amendment, 97; against it, 110—Majority
agai►►st Ministers-13.
A discussion then ensued, on a proposition from the Mini-
sterial side, to limit the votes ofpro.ries; and, after considerab:e
argument, a division was called for.
In favour of the respective votes—
By Proxy, 99; against them, 102—Majority against Mini-
sters-13

The Report wait then brought tip, and on its being read,
Lord Livi.:llrool. moved several Amendments fur the pur-
pose of placing the Resolutions in the same terms as when
first submitted to the House, which were negatived without
Divisions. The Resolutions as pa,sed in the Committee were
then agreed to, and ordered to be communicated to the House
of Commons by corference on Saturday.
Adjourned at Half-past Five.

SATUKDAY, JAN. 5.
A deputation from the Commons requested a conference,
which being granted, it took place hi the Paintei Chamber,
when certain Resolutions respecting the issues of sums of Money
for the services of the Arniy and Navy were presented to then,
and their I aird,hips concurrence desired.
A deputation of Peers then went to the Commons, for the
purpose of transmitting the Resolutions received on the 3d of
January, as amended and altered for the concurrence of the
Conimons.—(Scc Friday's _Report fin' the I?esolutiuns).
PROXIES. .
The Loup CIIANCELLOIP. gaVe acit4e,,th*he shOuld,shortly
name an early day for •thepurkose,of ,taking taw COliSiaOralla
the voting by parg. i l'it: ,t • •
ISSUE •OF PUBLIC MONEY. 7. ! rrIJL
The Resolutions transmitted to the Lords frouithe-Coegpens
were then referred td7a.Committee-of- themisqielriottiosi.:o%;
- On the question being pot that. tire Lords:du agpeewitils the
Resolution, • • • • i•- ',' • ••o -.IT 9(1 C
Lord LuftstrooL rose AdAefendediki litie.:ofmeltalSlNlPer-
ued by the Minister, and c;illed:ov.• theritLitiento girrecito the
Resolution. • He calk& Ml' them frOnr•-necessity—the•iPublic
Service required the Money. • • •• •
I,oed G ReN.VILLE apM-ovectof the Itesoiutiou, on the ground
of the necessity of the cases-. - Iv •

J_. - . •

--
. the - •F' and.
66 '
they had not Merely tlse-.opinion Of
..Commm s,
littla
but also tik opinion of,D4ri Vitt,Prd Cinid ,13.1`k;ord Thisrlovr,
ifti ell- tikt *teat mop of that day, and 001 his Noble Friend
(Lord Grenvillg) had in.a.speech replete, wish that infrirmation,
eloquence, and sound cenvincing argument fur which he war so
peculiarly tminent, ,green a most decided and learned opinion.
It was because them pcopositiona were calculated to give all effi-
ciency to the authority of the Regent, and gllo.all that right and

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