The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-27 00:00:00

VIM NUN, LOWDO,N,

, •'
ail) ti 4a eta ii-aats of the dity,
einglo reader by the alteration. The effect of the rbilioval
of the stamp duty would in his opinion be to call into
exiritelice a class of papers adapted to another class of read-
ers, and suited to their means and capacities. But even if
this were not so, what right had the house, either in jug- ice
or reason, to keep up by artificial regulations the high price
of a commodity in which thu rich rejoiced, and prevent the
poor man from getting an article adapted to his wants,
merely in order to benefit and keep up the character of the
high-priced paper? (Hear.) Then, too, it had been said
that the abolition of the stamp duties would call into ex-
istence a class of cheap immoral and seditious papers. But
if such journals should militate in any way against law
and order, the law was amply strong enough to control and
put them down ; and if it were thought that the proposal
to take away the registration of the names of the proprie-
tors would tend to increase an objectionable class of publi-
cations, it should be borne in mind that such proposition
was only a subordinate part, and not in any way connected
with the principle, of the bill. No person could deny that
a great improvement had taken place in the character of
the press during the last few years, but this beneficial
change had occurred since the lowering of the stamp duty
of 4,1. to id. Why, then, if such good results had attended
this reduction, should such gloomy anticipations be in-
dulged in with respect to the effect of the further reduc-
tion ? (Hear.) The altered state of the feeling of the
public was such that whenever a libel occurred there was
no difficulty iu getting a jury to convict. The Satirist was
imi::ilated by the repeated damages obtained by indivi-
duals whose characters had been traduced ; and if such a
paper were again to be attempted to be forced into circula-

it would be swept away by the indignant voice of the
country and the verdicts of honest juries. (Hear.) This
great question, then, was perfectly ripe for solution, and
he trusted that the house would not, by adopting the
amendment of the hon. member for Kent, further postpone
its final settlement. Allusion had been made by the hon.
member to the necessity of an alteration in the law
of copyright ; but that law was at present strong
eu-mgh for its purpose, and he did net think that exist-
ing newspapers would be exposed to more piracy after the
removal of the stamp duty than they were at the present
moment. The daily papers were exposed to the piracy of
the evening and of the weekly papers, and information
which they gave was published the same day and in the week
aft3r, condensed, abridged, or transformed in so many dif-
ferent shapes as not to be any cause of complaint. It had
been stated that if the tax were taken off is would be pos-
sible for some paper to be started the object of which
would be to steal the matter of the morning papers, and
bring out later in the day the information which others
had collected at great expense. He believed that if such
a speculation were likely to answer, the difference of one
penny in the price of the paper would not stop those who
were disposed to act in so shameful a manner. But, if
such an outrageous attempt at fraud and robbery were to
be made by any person, upon an action being brought, the
indignation of a jury at such an outrage would induce
them to give such damages as would at once put a stop to
any such proceeding. (Hear, hear.) There were news-
papers now springing up by scores, many of them devoted
to subjects connected with the war, but the reason the
law had not been put in force against them was because
the Government had really decided upon the abolition of
the tax, and it would have appeared an act of harshness
and injustice to have proceeded against them for infringing
a law which the Government had decided upon repealing.
At the same time, however, it should not be overlooked

that to allow those parties to infringe the law was evi-
dently unjust to those who were called upon to pay the
tax. In conclusion, the hon. and learned gentleman re-
spectfully implored the house to consent to the second
reading of the bill.

Sir F. BARING said that he always listened with the
greatest pleasure ar.d attention to tho hon. baronet the
member for Hertfordshire and the hon. and learned At-

torney-General, and he had certainly never more admired
their talent, and the way in which they dealt with a ques-
tion, than upon the present occasion, for neither of those
hon. members had in the least met the objections taken by
the hon. member for Kent. (Hear.) What was the object
•f that hon. member ? He had stated that, by the Chan-
cellor of the Exchquer's own explanations, he was about to
propose an alteration by which a loss to the revenue would
accrue of something over 200,000/., and that it would be
Lis duty to propose some other tax to make up this defi-
ciency in the revenue. The hon. member, therefore, not
very unreasonably called upon the house not to go into the
consideration of this question until the alternative of the
other taxes was before the house, and the public had an
opt ortunity of deciding whether they would undergo the
evils which at present existed or consent to those which
might be proposed to the house. It had been said that the

„ouSlio were exceedingly anxious to have this bill passed,
bus this extraordinary haste to press the measure through .
the house appeared to him to throw something like dis-
credit upon the statement. He disapproved entirely of
the principle of discussing propositions of this sort before
the house had before it a full and comprehensive view of
' the finances of the country, and regretted the departure
from that sound principle of finance and policy which the
present case presented. Ho had known bat one exception
to that correct course, and that was the establishment of
the penny postage system, a measure which no doubt was
attended with many beneficial results, but its adoption
led to great confusion in the public accounts, and the im-
position of the income tax was in a great degree the result
of that legislation. At the present moment the state of
the finances was more uncomfortable than usual, and if
the Chancellor of the Exchequer was about to follow out
the principle laid down of raising the service of the year
by the taxes of the year, he would find that even 200,0001.
was not a sum which he could rashly dispose of. But if
they had recourse to a loan—and he expressed no opinion
on the policy of such a course—it might be just to leave a
portion of the burden of the war to posterity, but it
would not be either an honest or straightforward course to
ask posterity to pay for the reduction of taxation proposed.
in the present measure. With respect to the proposal
before the house, the fact was that this penny stamp duty
could hardly be called a tax ; it was a. -composition for,
privileges enjoyed under the Post-ogee, which wore•paid
, for in the shape of a stamp. The fact was, that clout
I 8.) per cent, of the whole of the carriage of the mails of
the country was in newsp spars. The country paid for the
I eel rriage of the inland mails—to say nothing of the cost
I of the establishment and charges of delivery-093,0-W. ;
' and for the packet service, 732,0001.; or, in round numbers,
about 1,500,0001. The 40,000/, levied by the stamp
duty, with the additional postage for the colonies.
would not exceed 500,0001., so that the country cart let 80
per cont. of the whole of the snails in newspapers at a cost
of not more than one-third of the actual carriage. If the
whole cost of the establishment and carriage of the Post-
e:Tice were included, the amount would be 2,430,0001.; the
sum received for the carriage of letters and newspapers was
1:208,000/., but the newspapers, which amounted to 80 per
cant, of all that passed through the post-office, did not pay
more than half a million. He thought, therefore, that the
newspapers received more than a full equivalent for the
' stamp duty which they paid. (Hear.) He thought the
hon. and learned Attorney-General might have reduced the
definition of what was a newspaper to that which common
sense was very much inclined to think was a newspaper,
and thus have avoided the alternative of either prosecuting
a large number of periodicals or proposing the total repeal
of the stamp duty. (Hear.) The hon. and learned At-
torney-General had argued the question as if it were a set-
tlement of the whole matter. But was the bill before the
house a settlement of the question ? The hon. and learned
gentleman was unable to say what a newspaper was, or to
give a definition of ono ; yet in some of the clauses of the
bill newspapers were specially referred to, and it would be
impossible to put a construction on those clauses without
having a definition of a newspaper. The two gentlemen
who had supported the bill so eloquently had stated that
it would not ba satisfactory without some settlement of the
question of copyright. Then, as to the moral effect of the
proposed change; while on one hand they heard much
, about the advantage of Americanising the press of this
country, they heard the Americans themselves state that
their press was to them no great blessing. Whether there
was revenue to dispose of or not, he (Sir F. Baring) stood
up for the principle that the house should not take off a
tax without having the substitute which was to be proposed
first brought under consideration.
Mr. PACKE supported the proposition for postponing
the second reading of the bill.
Mr. MIALL, after stating what he considered to be :the
arguments employed by the antagonists of the bill; 'whom
I he charged with gross selfishness, observed that a large
I majority of the house had decided that it was a matter of
( high policy to diffuse education at the public cost; yet it
was now asked, after thus stimulating the mental curiosity
of the people, to refuse the easiest and best means of gra-
tifying it, by rejecting this bill. Ho denied that there
was any danger of cheapened newspapers deteriorating the
press, or of interfering with those of a higher class. Un-
restricted competition in this, as in other cases, would not
only increase production but improve quality.
Mr. DRUMMOND, in a speech more than usually dis-
cursive, declared 144 opinion to ho that, instead of being
the greatest glory of the country, the press, ie its present
state, was one of its greatest curses. It was a mercantile
speculation, and nothing else, for pampering the taste of
the English people for political gossip.
Mr. DUFFY supported the bill, replying to various ob-
jections offered to a change of the law.
The CHANCELLOR of the -EXCHEQUER—I do not
accuse my hon. friend of any intention to make a factious
motion, or of being influenced by motives of party opposi-
tion in submitting his amendment to the house, norshonld
I have had any difficulty is acceding to it if I could have
brought myself to look upon this question as exclusively,
or even principally, a financial question. (Hear.) When
I introduced the measure I was under the impression that
I was giving effect to the declared and recorded opinion of
the house in the session of 1854. Let me call the attention
of the house to the words of that resolution :—” It is the
opinion of this house that the laws in reference to the
periodical press and newspaper stamp are ill defined, and
unequally enforced ; and it appears to this house that the
subject demands the early consideration of Parliament."
Now, it is important to observe the time when this reso-
lution was agreed to. My right hon. friend the member
for the University of Oxford made his second financial
statement, proposing an addition of 10,000,0001. of taxa-
tion for the expenditure of the war on the Bth of May last,
and on the 16th of May my right hon. friend the member
for Manchester moved and carried this resolution. The
house, therefore, passed the resolution with a full know-
ledge that a great war expenditure was to be met by in-
creased taxation, and passed it within a few days after
the statement to that effect had been made, with the im-
pression of the fact fresh upon their minds. (Hear.) If,
therefore, the financial objection had pressed upon the
h ,use last session as strongly as it now seems to weigh
with hon. members opposite, it is clear that the resolu-
tion could not then have been carried, But an attempt
lties been made npon the opposite side to throw doubt on
(11,iieeBirtiieQe.nesinof ofifnatnereasroeluotieonn.to Abstractbt. resolnudtiolnsreugproent
\ t an,to
cmoym, right hon. fiend ildi
I::divutenaitstte.°
it tobrew precisea Ways n nudie,MLueinagusheininstteeanc
d not°m3oevcels°onine aspecific plan
It
'l'Vears to ins that no reasonable dotlbleolictaloneaceXinivisgteyua!
t.' the tuyaning of this resolution. As in the case of an
„all which io,st.ticltio,,onpsuteol:iu.ls.B:ttulruskauonadezni.dctiongintuht thponendix, so'.
hatrlnan of the colyntltaiktleB iv.Ll.lietrYreis)eigilLtdhtl°)..ntt
n
to the intent awl
iaii,e:,l,oitovist(i)teiu.
:.,i
il,,;,,htits• a
isono(t)itocti Piz; ociefru(l,lby feettdfol ti;:itiFtvolioh,',,,,,c,:aaezt,:o,lgirttetheiedtill,trooiht tits-
v, It eh were inimical to the newspaper stamp: Afterlohue:iser'.
liz ingaiho' ins
.opui naiiolutshtei..;.ied his aniy-gntuitiolupte..blitt.s th
that when that motion
v..its carried it was 11:ltleri;.tO l'iAnay.p,ly a relaxation of the '
il, w ? Can any ono doubt that
resolution ''
virtual conderuna_t i,-,n and repeal, as far Its a could repeal it, of
scar, hear.) The resolution h
ii Ls very terms, imp?lies that the law was to be al-
i le) newspaper stamp
that the law should he ren-
• ' it could mean
maintain that
I toed. Can any one in this house have the hardihood to
then, the law was to be
more stringent or
severe, what meaning could the resolution 1 adletieerdedm,
it b elaxed in any
oarnedstirti wasnstringent
nt
notan to be severe
re
renderedlf,l
compulsory
' other manner than by rendering the aainp not
tion has© but that it
1 should bo relaxed ? and bow could o r

littt aPtiitai %re the flittlift4 tiiVO bOliVitid
that in introdueing this measure I was giving elTeet to the
distinct and declared opinion of the house in its last ses-
sion. If it should please the house to recede from their
determination—if they should now change their opinion
and depart from that resolution—let them, by distinctly
rejecting the bill, not by acceding to foe dilatory motion
proposed by the hon. gentleman, but by voting for a motion
that it be read a second time in six months, simply rescind
the resolution, and so place the Government in a clear and
intelligible position with respect to the administration of
the law. Jf,you reject the second reading of the bill, in
what position will the Government stand with respect to
those publications, the nature of which has been so fully
and ably explained by the Attorney-General? Do you
propose to legalise class publications? Would anybody
undertake to define the precise difference between class
newspapers and other newspapers? It has been found
difficult enough to define a newspaper in its extended
sense, and would any one lay down such a definition as
would satisfy judges and jurymen? Would any one with
metaphysical minuteness draw a line for practical purposes
between class and other newspapers? If that task is to be
imposed upon the Government, I trust that some gentle-
man who has supported the amendment will give us the
benefit of his valuable advice ou the subject. Is the At-
torney-General to prosecute some 150 newspapers which
have hitherto received the indulgence of the Government,
which have grown up under a permission not sanctioned
by the letter of the law, but which has induced proprie-
tors to emberk their capital in extensive literary and com-
mercial enterprises ? They have formed large connexions
with classes of customers and of readers through the long-
continued toleration of the Government, known to the
public, known to this house, and not censured or objected
to by the house ; and are they suddenly to find them-
selves the objects, or, as it might be said with truth,
the victims, of ex officio prosecutions, and to be at once de-
pi ived of the privilege they have so long enjoyed? If that
is the course to which the Government is to be driven, I
trust it may be distinctly signified by those who support
the amendment of my hon. friend and wish for the rejec-
tion of the second reading. I will not attempt to travel
over the general topics which have been so ably illustrated
and almost exhausted in the eloquent, and not more elo-
quent than argumentative, speech of the hon. baronet the
member for Hertfordshire. It would be arrogance in me
to enter into the various topics to which he referred, and I
will only advert to one of the points be so ably and copi-
ously illustrated—l mean that of the great alarm which
appears to have seized both the metropolitan and the pro-
vincial press from the proposed abolition of the stamp

duty. he metropolitan press appears to think that when
the penny stamp is removed it will be ruined by the pro-
vincial press ; the provincial press, on the other hand, be-
lieves that it will be ruined by the London press—(hear)—
and both the London and provincial press believe they will
be ruined by some possible press which has not yet been
called into existence. (Hear.) Now, I confess that I can-
not but regard all such fears as fears inspired by imagine-
lion rather than by reason and by examination into 1 utu-
rity founded upon facts and experience. Let us only con-
sider what has been the effect of reducing the stamp duty
from 4d. to ld. Surely that reduction must have affected
the interests of the great newspapers more than the re-
moval of the last penny can effect them ; and yet we know
by experience that the newspapers with a large circulation,
both in the metropolis and is the provinces, rather de-
rived benefit than suffered injury from the reduction of
the stamp duty from 4d. to id. They are in possession of
the market, they have the command of capital, they have
au established connexion, they are known to the public
as the chief channels for advertisements, and they roust
unquestionably enter the new field of competition
which will be opened to them with greater advantages
than any new competitors can possess. It will be ex-
pected that I should say something with respect to the
financial aspect of this question, which has received so
much attention during the debate. lam not about to
deny that the estimated loss of 200,0001. n-year is a mate-
rial circumstance for the consideration of this house.
Nevertheless, in the construction of the financial plan
which, it will be my duty to submit to the house immedi-
ately after the Easter recess, allowance will be made for
the less of the revenue that will be thus occasioned, and
her Majesty's Government will, upon their responsibility,
propose such a scheme of finance as will provide amply for
the expenditure of the year, including the loss which may
be occasioned under the head of newspaper stamp duties.
Whatever risk may exist of such a sacrifice of revenue, the
Government, with the full knowledge that that reduction
is to be provided for, upon their responsibility propose
this measure to the house. The sum of 200,0001. which I
have mentioned, is the estimate made by the Post-office
authorities, not certainly upon very certain data, but upon
the best which the subject admits of obtaining. That esti-
mate does not include any allowance for an increase in the
paper duty. The paper duty now produces about
1,000,003/. a year, and certainly, if the anticipations of
which we hear, that the country will be inundated with
new newspapers, should receive a verification to any per-
ceptible degree, we may calculate upon some considerable
increase of the paper duty. I don't myself venture to give
any estimate of the increase of the paper duty. I merely
state that the estimate of the loss of 200,0001., which I
laid before the house, does not include any allowance for
the increase of the paper duty. There is another point
which has been adverted to by more than one hon. mem-
ber as uffording the means, in some respect, of supplying
the loss occasioned by the abolition of the compulsory
stamp— I mean a cheap book post—(hear, hear)—a charge
of postage for printed publications, not being periodi-
cal publications, not coming within the terms of the
hill now upon the table, but which would at present
be subjected to the letter rates of postage. Having
conferred with the Postmaster-General, I can state
that, in case this bill should receive the sanction
of Parliament, her Majesty's Government will be pre-
pared to introduce a book postage at lower rates than the
scale now existing. The lowest rate of the present book
postage is 6d. for ene pound weight. That rate of postage
was established by a Treasury warrant. It is proposed to
amend that Treasury warrant so that it may include slower
scale of rates ; facilities will thus be given for the transport,
of books and printed matter at a cheap rate, and it is anti-
cipated that this change may lead to some considerable
augmentation of the Post-office revenue. This is an ar-
rangement which may be carried into effect by the war-
rant of the Lords of the Treasury, for, as it involves a mere
variation of the existing rates of hook postigo, it does not
require the sanction of an act of Parliament. Having thus
explaine:l the financial portion of the question, I shad leave
this bill in the hands of the house, only pressing upon them
this consideration, that it is most important, not upon
financial grounds, but with reference to the recorded rose-
lue ion of this house—(hear)—for the purpose of maintain-
ing the consistency of the house and of it: proceedings, and
also for the purpose of putting an end to a most anomalous
and unconstitutional state of the law anti to perpetual
scandals which consequently arise, that the house should
pronounce a clear opinion upon this bill; that they should
either read it a second time this evening or reject it ; mind
that they should not accede to the unmeaning, the useless,
and the dilatory motion of my hon. friend. (Hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI—The right hon. gentleman has founded
the course he recommends the house to pursue upon a prin-
ciple which in practice he would find it very difficult to
maintain. I understand from him that he founds it not
so much upon those great principles of policy which have
been so eloquently advocated by the bon. member for Hert-
fordshire, and with great ability by other members of this
house, as upon the principle that the recorded opinion of
the house upon this subject is, in the mind of the right hon.
gentleman, a fact of such gravity and importance, that it is
impossible for him, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, to resist
an intimation so precise and definite. Now, sir, howcan this
principle he maintained in practice? Has it always been—l
may almost say has it e ger been —the principle adopted by
Chancellors of the Exchequer, that they should, as a mat-
ter of course, assume a vote of this house, with respect to
a particular tax, as an indication which cannotbemistaken,
and a sanction of a course which cannot be relinquished
by the Government; and that the policy or expediency of
repealing the tax, and the proper time for taking such a
step—which is the question before us to-night—are to be
omitted from all future discussion ? (Hear.) Why, in
1553, two sessions ago, the subject of what are called taxes
on knowledge was brought before this house, and a resolu-
tion, I think, for the abolition of the advertisement duty
was carried by a large majority, but the Government did
not on that occasion express their opinion that that vote
was final en the question, nor did the Government act upon
that vote. (Hear.) Have we not had the malt-tax repealed
by a vote of the House of Commons before this, and were
we then told by the Minister that, as a matter of course, it
was the duty of the Government immediately to propose
t,he house
irs
eeo pal of
the
raadimnian
othdpeatdet
the
i ex
(Hear,
tnhern hear.)iconsequencegh night
b y
toho
nfe trthihgett vtghteo
contrary,whichn .m thismw member
er were
for the University that a former colleague of his, the late
Sir R. Peel, had to his honour resisted the vote of the
House of Commons upon that subject, and that he had sue-
ce,sfully called upon the house to rescind it? (Hear, hear.)
Why, I remember a vote of this house for rescinding the
sager duties being carried against a powerful Government,
but were the sugar duties abolished by the Minister of the
day in consequence of that vote? No; on that occasion he
called upon the house to rescind the resolution at which
it had arrived. But what happened in our very recent
experience with respect to the vote of this house on the
subject of attorneys' certificates? (" Hear," and laughter.)
A vote for abolishing the duty was adopted by a very
large majority—a greater majority than has ever voted
for the repeal of the taxes immediately under
discussion tonight; but did the Chancellor of the
Exchequer then come forward and say that,in consequence
of the vote of the House of Commons, he felt it incumbent
upon the Government to propose the repeal of the certifi-
cate duty? Why, that duty is not repealed at this moment.
(Hear, and laughter.) You have had financial reform, you
have had the revision of taxation, you have had the whole
question of taxation considered in every possible light, and
yet you have not got the duty on attorneys' certificates re-
pealed—(a laugh)—although you had repeated votes on the
subject. But now, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in
vindication of himself, net for proposing the repeal of these
taxes on introducing his financial statement to the house,
but in vindication of his proposing the repeal of a tax
before the house is favoured with his financial scheme or
knows what substitute he is going to recommend—lays it
down ns a proposition which cannot be controverted, and
as a principle of action which the Government adopts, that
the moment the house has consented by its vote to the re-
peal of a tax, it is the duty of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer to act in conformity with that vote. I certainly
cannot agreee with the Chancellor of the Exchequer upon
that point, for I remember very well the arguments that
were used by the right hon. member for the university with
respect to the repeal of the Attorneys' Certificate Duty.
That right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) then said, that
it was the duty of the Chancellor of the Exchequer not
only to hear arguments in favour of the particular proposi-
tion then before the house, but also to hear arguments in
favour of the repeal of any other taxes which the house
might think ought to be abolished, in order that he might
avail himself of the information he could obtain from such
discussions in framing his financial scheme. The right hon.
gentleman argued against being called on to give any opi-
nion on the part of the Government before the introduc-
tion of their financial scheme; and the right hon. gentle-
man then said :
"If it be acknowledged that it is the privilege of the
'Livia; of Commons to propose the repeal of cue tax after
fit:other by It majority, and so dictate to the Chancellor of
the E:celiequer what shall be the financial policy of which
he is to in the organ in this house, what, I want to know,
io the use of the Chancellor of the Exchequer."
(Hear, hear.) I say, then, if the Chancellor of the Excho-
quer's position to-night is founded on that principle I shall
have to say to him, " What is the use of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer r (Laughter.) I shall see it my duty, sir,
to support the lion. member for East Kent in the proposi-
tion which ho has made. It is not a proposition that en-
ters into the general merits of the question, When we are
fau.vtvoterhi;iiiisiettltowlmittehlinituthktehtfihatne
jaieitlicial statement of the Chancellor of
the
position
e
sella El
theteonq
to
ohe
er
that,
hi
of uphs
ree fwpe
oei
stl
ihthi
respect
spweelieftjthutosoutlti:nifiosoeennvird
yttsi
hhpnpaaartpote
jffer
ecuiea.
dernsioitnembaegmemwamperhsn:addot
ina'sonroe rilartoipoonsai

TruonAY nvaNixot

astir to the 'muse by eteetteserate of mete. nisenesessessble
son, than that at this momeet, when we are, aceerditig to
the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on the
calledv ry
o vergeu to
threshold o ltda
xof w thehen
th e budget,rhi
gwte should
hon.
will not, and cannot, tell us what is the compensation to
be afforded to the revenue for the tax we are going to re- •
gledntnleomt b
gentleman a
top
e al,
impose. andwhat
(Hear.)i
st the
The substituteright hon.
whichgea t
Iwo
me areahh
taos
has, indeed,
adeskeedd,
stated to the house that the Government have a scheme
loss which
th
etrheeyy have v e
nuet eift
will
)er
sustain
confidenceain
ih consequence
evi will
of
th
efrre
repeal
of the newspaper stamp duty. I have no doubt the Govern-
ment havo full confidence in that project. I have no doubt
the Government have confidence in the right hon. gentle-
man—but the question is, has the House of Commons con-
fidence in the project of the Government ? (Hear.) It may
be doubtful whether we shall have confidence in that pro-
ject when we aro asked to give it; but to ask us to have con-
fidence in what the right hon. gentleman does not con-
descend to communicate to us is to exact ton much from
the trust of this house, and to take a somewhat more san-
guine view of the existence of the Government than the
right hon. gentleman is warranted in doing. (A laugh.)
The right hon. gentleman tells us that, if we postpone this
tpireosp, oasni od
hno,
rei ?keg ef,erio•nmmtehnet
tsav
si lbe
kl
of d
e fi involvednidefining
w d
iei ffiul
news.c
Now, I agree with the right hon. gentleman the member
for Portsmouth, that there is not much difficulty in solv-
ing a question that appears so great to the Government.
So fares I could perceive from a somewhat hasty examina-
tion of the 1.5: journals to which the right hon. gentleman
refers, there is but an insignificant fraction of them that
will require his attention. (Hear.) I was amused the
other day on meeting with a cabellistic definition of news,
in a book of childish instruction, that might have afforded
some hints cyst to a Minister of Finance. (Hear.) The
thewo fournlupeowi-islweafsththeeeroe:Bdescribed
ihs ythtehien
iitninaelttleetrteeortstiol
the
four points of the compass that make the word " news,'
and lie must understand that news is that which comes from
the North, South, East, and West, and if it comes from
only one point of the compass, then it is a class publica-
tion, and not news. (Laughter.) If he takes that simple
instruction as his guide, I think he will not find his diffi-
culties in the definition of news so insurmountable as he
takes them to be. (Laughter.) Sir, Ido not now enter on
the merits of the general question. I address myself only
to the amendment of my hon. friend—an amendment, in
my estimation, so sound, so just, and so suited to the cir-
cumstances with which we have to deal, that I feel it my
duty to give it my best support. (Cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON—The right hon. gentleman who
has just sat down has stated with great accuracy that cases
have occurred—and be stated several—in which this house
having come to certain resolutions in regard to taxation and
finance, the Government of the,day have not deemed it its
duty, or necessary, to adopt the resolutions to which the
house may have come; but I think the right hon. gentleman
has omitted to consider the peculiar character of the resolu-
tion to which my right hon. friend addressed his remarks.
Anybody may easily understand that, if a resolution to
abolish a tax is proposed to this house, and the Govern-
ment of the day resist it, but that the resolution is carried
in spite of that resistance, the Government, holding by
their own opinion of the tax, may abstain from taking any
stops in consequence of the resolution so carried in spite of
their opposition. (Hear.) But the resolution to which my
right hon. friend alluded was a resolution carried without
a dissentient voice—(hear)---a resolution in which the Go-
verument of the day concurred, and to which the Govern-
ment are as much bound as the persons by whom it was
proposed to the house ; and it will be seen at once that
there is au essential difference between a resolution
so carried and one that is resisted and carried in spite
of the opinions and strong determination of the Go-
vernment. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the financial
part of the question, if my right hon. friend were pick-
ing out a tax which he thought in itself objectionable,
and simply because he thought some other taxes would be
preferable, it would be very reasonable for those who ob-
jected to that course to say, " Let us wait till we see
whether the tax you are about to propose will be less ob-
jectionable than the one you propose to abolish." If it
were a question of mere preference in regard to financial
op..rse ions, I could understand the ground on which gentle-
men opposed to the tax might wish to see whether another
arrangement better suited to the wants and wishes of the
country might not be proposed ; but the measure of my
r.ght hon. friend is not founded on financial preference. It
is grounded, not merely on the resolution of last year, but
on the foundation on which that resolution rested. It is
grounded on the injurious, and, indeed, intolerable state
of the law—a state in which it is impossible the law can
be enforced as it stands, and which we feel requires to be
altered. The law must be altered, because it is a scandal
that a law should exist that cannot from its nature be
enforced. (Hear, hear.) If the law be altered, you must
either make it more stringent, more precise, and enable
the officers of the Crown to carry out its provisions and
enforce its penalties in any ease where it is violated—a
course which I think this house will not be prepared to
adopt ; or, if you will not do that, you must adopt the
line of relaxation, and make the law more indulgent.
For my part, I do not contemplate the proposed change as
likely to be attended with those dangers that have been
stuticipated by some gentlemen in the course of the even-
ing. Ido not anticipate that this change will be produc-
tive of that injury to exist.ng newspapers which they
themselves have so industriously endeavoured to persuade
us is awaiting them. I am persuaded that those newspapers
—commercial speculations, such as described by the hon.
member for West Surrey in that amusing speech with
which he has entertained the house this evening—that
those great establishments will maintain their ground in
spite of any competition that my right honourable
friend's measure may bring against them. (Hear, hear.)
I am equally convinced that there is no real danger to the
morals of the country from those cheap publications that
are likely to rise up when this stamp duty is removed.
(Hear.) I agree with those who have such confidence in
the good sense and good feeling of the lower classes-.for
it is to them only that these cheap publications will be
addressed—as to lsAieve that me danger will follow to
them from this change ; that these publications from which
danger is to be anticipated will not have such a circula-
tion, or such an enlargement, as that their existence can
peipitnated. Jfear.) Of coulee they may he attempted ;
but they will share the fate of others that have gone before
teen. (Hear.) If they lice, they will soon fall again.
(Hear.) On the other hand, I believe there will arise
cheap publications fur the use of those who are unable to
buy dear ones, which will convey instruction, enlarge their
understandings, improve their morals, and at the same
time terel to make them geed and useful members of
society. (Hear.) I, therefore, entertain no apprehension
on that ssore. This being ley opinion, lam convinced
that the house will best perform its duty to the public by
concerting in the bill proposed by my right hon. friend.
(Ideas, hear.) Of this lam sure, that we ought to deter-
mine cae way or the other, and that the motion—the
insidious motion of the hon. member who proposes delay—
will not mislead any member of this house. (Cheers.) We
clearly understand that that for which we are voting is,
whether the measure shall be adopted or not. (Cheers.)
No man will be misled into the error of fancying that,
though in favour of the bill, he is only voting for delay,
and not against the bill. If this is clearly understood, and
the votes given "Ay" or "No'' upon the measure, then the
tactics resorted to by those who do not openly declare
themselves will not succeed ; and, although they say the
amendment is only for delay, let it be clearly understood
what the trate is. (Cheers.) Let every member know
that in giving his vote on this motion he will practically
be giving that vote "Ay" or " No" for the measure.
(No, !)no Honourable members may say " No." I
inthethme
eianstuerrpe.retTathioeyn
do not expectgiye.
Theyhe m
areto caognaci eh re t
which I
wish to vote against it, but they feel some difficulty in
doing so after having concurred in the resolution of last
ses=ion. (Cheers.) They cannot well got out of the posi-
tion in which they are placed and seek to escape by a side
door, and endeavour to accomplish it by a motion for de-
lay ; but we require that the votes shall be given in plain
terms, for or against the measure. If the votes be so given
I am confident in my expectation, that the house will
make good its resolution of last year, and concur in the
second reading of this bill. (Cheers.)
The house then divided, and the numbers were—
For the second reading 215
Against it .
161
Majority
--54
The bill was, therefore, read a second time.
Customs department; 483 r, 2er3xeBpylee. expenses of
police—o f the
Inlandceast-
SUPPLY—REVENUE DEPARTMENTS.
The house then went into committee of supply, when the
following votes were severally proposed and agreed to
without discussion :--835,1821. for salaries and expenses of
department;l,36s, 050 /. fo ra salariesnd 6272 andol,
-Ireland.Revenueua ni;
CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILL.
Sir G. GREY moved the second reading of this bill,
and explained that its object was to extend the power of
summary conviction possessed by magistrates to cases of
petty larceny not exceeding 10s. in value.
Mr. S. FITZGERALD thought that some better scheme
than the present bill might be devised for the more fre-
quent delivery of gaols, without infringing on that great
safeguard of our liberties—the trial by jury.
Mr. ROBERT PALMER said he felt no objection to the
second reading of the bill.
Mr. HILDYARD thought that the bill would require a
tnibriiells,
good deal of attention in committee.
Mr. HEYWOOD supported the bill. •
The bill was then read a second time.
On the motion of Colonel DUNNE, the Lunatic Asylum
(Ireland) Bill was referred to a select committee.
LIBRARIES, &o. (IRELAND) BILL.
tihneemotion of Mr. Ewam, leave was obtained to
b
On
bring
liralnhelreelsatnabdl.ishment of free
p
for
museums, promoting &
e,
i
lIARRIAGES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
II
On the motion of Mr. EADLAM, leave was given to
bringur in ab
bill to impose restrictions on irregular marriages
in Scotland,

ST. MARGARET'S CHURCH.
Mr- PREWEN moved for a return of all sums of
money which had been voted by the House of Commons
since the year 1800 for repairing or improving the parish
church of St. Margaret's, Westminster.
The return was ordered.
Lord DUNCAN brought in a bill to make further pre-
vision for the registration of births, deaths, and al ar ri ages
in Scotland which was read a first time.
The house adjourned at half-past one o'clock.

We base received a letter from Mr. John S. W..
Herring, solicitor, of Stafford-chambers, New-road,
.alarylebone, begging of us to intimate that he is not the
person of that name referred to in the late attempted
murder and suicide at Marylebone.
Miss JEWSI3URY'B NEW NOVEL, " CONSTANCE HER-
BEET."--This remarkable book is exciting great interest.
It is the be,st we have yet had from the clover pen of
Mi-s Jewsbury. " Constance Herbert," says the
A tleemeam, is a
poem in its beauty and its lofty purpose
romaiice in iti variety and fascination. The tale, as
a tale, is dePPlv interesting, full of quiet pathos and a
cal;n and beaniiful morality. ' Con3tanee Herbert' will
be read v.ith plea6ure and remembered with healthful
interest."

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