The National Register.
London, England, 1816-04-08 00:00:00

THIRD SECRETARY OF STATE.

MI. Timor Ey rose to call the attention of the Rouse to the
Office of Third Secretary of State; and to promise an Address
to the Prince Regent, that the di w i•ion of the State Office made
in 1794, be revised and placed on the footing it stood in 1793.
The object which he had in view was, to economize the expen-
ses of the service without endmwering the safety of the coon-
try.—The question for commode' ion was, whether in the pre-
sent state of the country it was not necessary to abolish the
Office altogether, and thus carry economy into effect. Up
to 1785, there were only two Secretaries of State; when a
third Secretary was appointed, under the name of Colonial Se-
cretary, which continued till 1782, when Mr. Burke's Bill abo-
lished that Office. Theis matters continued till the year 1791:
when, Mr. Donde! being Secretary for the Home Department,
it was found that the business arising front the war had so in-
creased, that it became necessary% to revive the Office of third
Secretary to act at War Secretary.—itav as then clear that this
institutioo.of. a War Secretary was for the purpose of easing
the labours of the Home Secretor, , and leaving haw to trans-
act the business of the Home Department mattered with
any of the War transactions. The Home Secretary had the
vontinctieg of the colonial business, and indeed it was evident
that the whole of that business was managed in they Home-Of-
fice. To show the tact to be so. he need only refer to the evi-
deuce of Mr. King, the Under.Seciegary of state. In this de-
partment was cast the %huh. executive business of the British
Empire, witlrthe excetniora of-the East Indies. The war being
now over, he bad to coateiod that the State office ought to re-
vert beck to the situation in which it stoed.previous to 179.1.
It would be recollected that the speech from the throne stet,
the readiness of the Prince Regent to concur in any suggestions
which► the House might make. 'I he House had made none, as
yet ; and, therefore, he thought it high tine to begin.—( Hear,
Aerie!)—He made the propositionowithout any party motives,
bat with a view to ccnuumy ; for lie would have proposed it if
leis out, friends had been in power. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man then stated thetxpences of tho War Secretary op to the
present period, to defray die charges as they at present stand,
a sum of -29,0001. would Le required. A Paper on the table
would spew die estimate of the expences. The expellee of the
Home Department was 85951. not including clerks. This suit
was paid to Lo►d Batheirat, his `.ecretarie e. The 14 ar De-
partment was bow reduced 10 14901. So that all that related
to the Office was done away with iii coosequelee of the p.eace.
The defence-of Ministers tonight must be, that, in continuing
this office, it vies for the punposr of transacting the colonial bu-
siness. He contended, that:the Colonial Department might,
'without detriment to the service, betransfer red back to the
-Dome Department ; nor would he object to the transfer of the
neeretary of the War Department. Such a transfer would
saves to the conntry between Maud 14,0001. a year. He-might
be told that the increased acquisitiou of Colonies had contri-
buted materially to the iucrease of the business. It might nes
said, that the Meaeitius, Ceylon!, and the Cape, farmed a ground
of objection to the. transfer ; but Inc taw 110 I CISOII w by the be-
liteCPS of those Islands shoulaknot be transacted at the Office
of the Board of Controul. Ile had no desire to deprive the
(ioverelu►ent of a Cabinet Mi►tiste'r—all that he %awed was, to
taro the Noble Lord over to the Booed of Controul, by subdivi-
sliag the business of the. Secretary of State, and thereby save
the country from t 2 to 14,0001.11 year. He thought it no
faculty to make work for himself, it' he held a sinecure o
When he was 'lreasoirer of the Nosy, he did contrive
to tind.eiaplayieent for about an boon or an boor atul u hall a
day. It was trite that if a Gentleman chose lie might coot out
work. or the appearance of work, by fordo., in,. the Clerks under
bin to make out returns of this, to copy that. and recopy the
esalor r account, jai ter the sake of beiug itanan of husiriesa. He
hired the House would agree. with him, that, under the pre-
is at girt u stances of the (reentry, this third Secret:rev, who
eas a iisol of aiorlospo r, slioaloi be got rid of. The Right
lies. Gen:Vomit ceuclude•d wide mos hig the Address, /se.
Mo..GoeLsLr.*.coneriveil it was necessary for him to state
sonic reasolos foo utojetting is tote to die modem of the Right
Ilan, Geode:mum lit lbsd the accession of the Colman,* was
found so o,)presaive on the war department,. that it became
necessary_ to te.nsfer the militia and volunteer corps to the
home depai tment, and to place die colonies loader the sir a
sr the war department. The (:o.aiiernion contended that
the el,lnuiet lead a right to 0 adviser, to superin-
tend their atiliits; nor was i: respLettiol to then) to transfer
thei► Sitar s..HI eh% Ode the ii..inagemerit :toging .11,41110 offices.
14,• instanced tai variety i f which they formslio
As tit• culoonio a trod berm the means oft oadocing :o the sue-
... fal trinina.iun of the war, Le.thoesitt tialuure gatit.ed.

THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

to some consideration. It might he well to sages► the tratister
of other straits to the cognizance of the Beard of Colonial.
ant he did not know whether the East Intlat Company would
be disposed to pay a Minister for managing other atfaiis than
their cu 11. The !tome Department were fully employed without
any additional business; they had under tHeir contrail the
external military force, the police, and the government of
Ireland; and it to these ditties was to he added the superin-
tendence of the colonies, he was afraid the home business miglt
he neglected; nor did lie iniagiue that the saving of 0 or
70001. at most (for that was the extent of the saving) wand
be a sufficient inducement to the l louse to agree to the Address.
Mr. C. WYNNP: considered the question as a most important
one. When he CAMP into the office of Under Seeretaiy of
State, the business of the militia and vuliniteers was entrusted
to one Secretary, and the police and government of Ireland to
the oilier. Since then the business had greatly decreased, es-
peciall) with respect to aliens; therefore the business generally
was not so heavy as the Hou. Gentleman had stated, In every
point of view the assertion in that respect failed. But the
colonies, it was alledged, was a material iugredient. If that
argnment had been applied against tttt ithie the colonies with
the war business, then a sufficient ground would have existed
for refusing to unite that service with the business of the war
ilepartment. But no such argument had been adduced. t►'ith
respect to the rutellinn of the India Company, which the Hon.
Gentleman was afraid of, did the Hon. Gentleman forget some
few years ago that Lord Melville tilled the three offices at the
same time, of Secretary of State, Treasurer of the Sass, and
President of the Board of Contrail i On that occasion, lie had
never heard that the India Company had expressed any anger,
or remonstrated on the subject---t Aar, heur.)—ln whatever
way he looked at the subject, lie thought the alteration pro- ,
posed by his Hon. Friend, was highly beneficial to the public,
both in point of economy, and the public being :veil served ;
for the public were never so well served as Alien their servants
were folly employed.
Mr. 11. ADDING-ON a iShrd to set the Right Hon. Gentleman
right as to one in int r,•specting the colonies: during the Ame-
rican war, there was a third Secretary of State. tt ith respect
to the militia, when the new ballot for armpit-4611g that species
of force was out, the business of the Home Secretary would be
greatly increased. In respect to toe Aliens' Department,
though lie admitted it was decreased, still, in consequence of
. the dismissal of Mr. Reeves. who managed the alien business,
the labonr fell on hint (Mr. A.) Since the year lt4O, the bu-
siness generally of the office had increased oue-third in all the
various departments connected with the Government.
Mr. MARNYATT COUSidered the reduction of the Colonial
Department as impossible under the present circumstances,
• and therefore could not vote fiir the motion.

--
Sir J. NEWPORT supported the motion of his Hon. Friend,
convinced that the State-office might be subdivided, as pro-
posed by his Right Hon. Friend; because it had been proved
that the Board, of Controul hail no increased taboo's, and the
Home Department's labours were greatly diminished. lie
wished to know how business was CORdlletea during the absence
of the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) on the Continent.
Mr. B. HATIII RST opposed the motion, on the grounds stated
by the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Goulbourn). ith respect to
the manner in which the business of the Foreign-office was con-
ducted while the Noble Lord was on the Continent, it must be
observed that the business was• of necessity thrown into the
state of a foreign power, consequently the business was trans-
acted iu the capital of the Potentate where the Allied Sove- •
reigns were assembled, and the Noble Lord transmitted hie
transactions home to his colleagues.
Mr. SPI Y 1 H contended, that the office which the present,
motion sought to abolish had been abolished by Mr. Burke':.•
bill of 1752. lie was quite at a loss how to think this office
necessary, when there were no volunteers or yeomanry to be
attended. to. Those who at this period recommended expence
in this or any other depot towed of Government, were neither
honest counsellors of the crown, nor friends to the people.

Mr. BANKLS, after complimeniiiig Mr. Tierney on the way
which he had brought this forwai d; said, it was with
pain that he was obliged to state, that, in his opinion; this
office was necessary for the public services.—(lienr, luctc.)—
His wish was to keep up efficient oftices and those only. But,
on the same gyounds, the House should lay its fingers on all
otliers that were inefficient and useless. Such were the two
Chief Justices in Eyre.
Mr. Ponsorsng could not help regretting, that that Hon.
Gentleman would never vote los any measure of economy,
except he brought it forwasd himself. At present we. Sad
nothing to fear from abroad ; neither had we so many colonies
or so touch ba.kiness to do.for them, as when the States or
rica belonged to this country; but the difficulties of the tummy
had increased ; it must be in the Home IA pat fluent. The
tomerintendance of the Cape of Good Hope, the MinitilinN and
Ceylon, mi.glit be turned over to the Board of Controni, which
haul ah only the management of the affairs of Hindostaii. T.lte
office of President of the Board of Ccutroul being vaeaut, he
was save that no gentleman would refuse that appoint ingot be-
eanse the management of these three colouies was stit.eradded
to the ditties of that ihEee. At no tune should a. aunt of 12,0001.
a year he an object of swatill consideration to the 'louse; and
especiaily at the present tune, he ttwtrght that a slum of t 2,01101,
,would be considered as no small saving to the country.
Lord CA, I' LEakAtill objected to d.e transferring of the
business of three colonies to the Roo, of C They
might as well be referred to the President of the Council, in
the Lord Privy Seal, who were thought to have_ little to do iu
'their offices. It appeared ;hat a third Secretary of State had
existedufrom 1703 to lift. But now it vias sail that we
wanted no such office. Surely no one would say that th• busi-
ness of the colonies had nut doubled since 17t t. t% hen any
enan considered the extent of the superinteadonee of, the
leerctary of State over the new colonies, he would nut say
that this office \las uselkas.

Mr. Hoag 'spoke against the motion..
Mr. Tiensav said, this was, to all Intents,and purposes;
according to Mr. Burke', Aet, a new office, and could slot be
held by any one without his vacating his seat in that house:
althoi4ll flie Noble Lord held that .othee at the tinieof the
‘Valchereti Expect:sum, oiland precionswurk he made of that.—
(A laugh.)—The continuance of this (Ace stupid aud.he the
coubtry with an expeni cof at least 14.01,01. a year. 1.0. t
there he a Cotinuitt.e to examisia-!iis proposition. Let Lord
Sidininith, and ail those be examined, who lia.! arid ihis office;
-and if:, cave were nut wade out that this ',dive rt.ii d he ear-
cured by tiin.two Secretaries of State, as heretofore, .lie would
give up his ;imposition altogether. If the hoist did not
make the :simile Lord atteail to the dut:i a of rehnomy. neither
lie our any et his Majesty's Ministers would adopt at
ri.i.laetion iu ex pence, as fleeces-try w colic; e itus public er.on
the third'. iis they had so patiently buiz.:: tioung rho course of
a long war.
Mr. llounboa thought the continuance ui A third Secretary
of S:ato.neccasary.

The }louse iliviteitAir Fur• tie Motion 1 /0 —Against it
itybX_,Ailj?uolLJ al Ilrif?pat ..t'scrote

THUIV.DAN, APRIL 4.

APRIL 8.

Ittionaparte'tr Detention and the St. Helena Intercourse
Bills were reud u third tine and paced; as was also the Ex-
cis( Bill.

Lord NuotreT presented a petition from the town of Ayles.
bury. praying the abolition of sinecure planer, lIIId the
of economy. The Noble Lord said, the rejection of the
Property Tux had thrown us upon the question of economny.
Aseiglit millions ot• revenue were cut off, it remained for us
to discover, not how to supply those eight millions, but how to
save them. lie should not now enlarge on the distress of the
agricultural and commercial interests ; he should leave the pi,-
tition to speak for itself: but there was one point in the yeti.
lion to which he must refer, beoanse it concerned the very
existence of our constitution. The petitioners had Ipartienlar-
ly objected to the destination of that port of our many which
was termed the army of occupation. They deemed it nneorrs
stitutional that such a force should be in pay and under the in-
fluence, of the French King—ready, perhaps, to invade our
.own shores in four-anddwent, hours, and certainly liable to
bite notions hostile to the constitution of this country.
Lori eavesnisit home his testimony to those being the•
sentiments not wily of the people of Aylesbury, but a great
part of the surrounding population ; they were :also his senti.
ments--and he begged leave to give lortee, that he should,
after the recess, submit a motion to the Hoes,. npou the Public
Expenditure, and the existence of a large Arms, a hich was in
direct opposition to the principles of time constitution of this
country, amid subversive of our liberties.

APRIL R.

be disadvantageous to the brewer, and uI oh! Jdva.itaci OU
to the public ; but it should be recollected, if Uh,•y lust now,
they risen has e gained At OthEr times.
Mr. Cuttwra had calculatid the amount of difference the
repeal would make to the brewer at three farthim4s per pot;
Van, they ought therefore to reduce the price ur poster that
awn. _ _ . _

Mr. W. SMYTH. mnch•doubted theCorreetnemis of this calm_
lation ; he thought it did not itonmont to any such snot, and he
thought the espectation of such a reduction should not be held
out to the public.
The Resolution was then agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then proposed a Re-
solution for allowing a drawburk of 10. upon every three
barrels of porter brewed between the Sth of April and the
sth of July next.—This Resolution, after some observations
from Mr. Curweo and Mr. Errand, was agreed to, and the
report MA ordered to be received to-morrow.
Mr. Ctinwt: a'svished to know if the Chancellor of the FA-
cherer had folioed any plan for relieving small ftriners,
renting not more than 131. a ye..r, from the saddle-horse ilmy.
The repeal of the Income-Tax only relieved this class of per-
sons from the payment of Is. whilst for his horse he paid 21. 7s.
The CI'S:Set:LI-OR of the ENCHEQuen said he hoped to have
a proposition on this subject to sub.nit to the House on Moo-
day. —Adjourued.
Fain AV, APRIL 5.

Mr. MArryut presenttoil a petition from the Curriers, Lea-
ther-di e.sei „te. of the town of Sandwich, pr.„ nig the HOIIIR
to rept•al the Leather Tax, it being of rniisous tendency to the
trade.—General tiascoyne presented a petition from the 'run-
ners of Li•eriioul, with a similar prayer.—Lard Elinley pic-
aented a petition from Worcester, also with a similar brayer.