The Sun.
London, England, 1855-01-30 00:00:00

nionsly, but if not, each would pursue his own opinions, and
try to carry out his own views. A board would only work
well, where there was a prominent supremacy in the head.
With regard to another point, following the example of the
French, who, in 1820, believed that the English military
system was superior, not having then had the immense
advantage of twenty-five years campaigning for one-fourth
of their army in- Africa, ho (tho Duke of Newcastle) had
appointed a commission of three officers to investigate in
Paris the whole French military system, with the view to
their making a repqrt and suggesting such improvements
as might satisfactorily be introduced into their system ;
and concurrently with that, Lord Raglan had appointed a
commission of officers in the Crimea, with the view of
ascertaining the practical working of the same system, and
acting, of course, under instructions sent out by himself.
From these investigations he hoped to derive great advan-
tages. They would obtain the theory of the French system
in Paris, while, from the officers in the Crimea, they would
have the practice as exemplified in the field. There was an-
other department in which the French were extremely effi-
cient, and which was represented by " L'Ecole de la guerre."
They had been obliged to go over the town in order to secure
maps of an authentic character upon the breaking out of the
war. The defeat was an obvious one in the British army, and
he had taken the first steps to establish such an institution in
London. He had had communications with foreign Govern-
ments and with Lord Dalhousie in India, in' order to obtain a
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army, but it appeared to him that it might be advisable to
transfer the auditing of these accounts to the Audit Office.
It was not his intention to oppose the motion of his noble
friend. If it was thought desirable to place this abstract re-
solution on the books of the house, he, on the part of the
Government, was not disposed to dissent from it. At the
same time, he frankly admitted that there were inconveni-
ences in placing an abstract resolution on the books, and he
would submit to his noble friend whether he would think it
worth while, after the declarations he had made, to press it,
especially as the notice had been altered from that which was
originally given. Ho agreed with his noble friend that mate-
rial alterations were essentially necessary, and, whatever Go-
vernment was to carry them out, he hoped they would be
able to do so as circumstances permitted them, and without
doing mischief instead of good. Under these circumstances
he hoped that the noble earl would not press his motion.
Lord HARDINGE said, that being supposed to be divested
of all political feeling by reason of the office which he had the
honour to hold, he should not offer any opposition to the mo-
tion of the noble lord. However, he should beg to set the
noble earl right in reference to the statement attributed
to him (Lord Hardinge), to the effect that, a few years since,
certain battalions of the Guards knew nothing of ball prac.
tice, in consequence of never having been supplied with
ball cartridge. He believed he might state that within
the last two years, not only had the Minie rifle been in-
troduced, but the practice with that arm had been car-
ried on with very great effect. Indeed, he might say
that no recruit had gone out to the Crimea since last
spring who was not well practised with that arm—(hear,
hear.) Since ho (Lord Hardinge) had the honour to occupy
the position of Commander-in-Chief, a school of mu,ketly
had been established, and ho believed the result was
superior to anything that previously existed. At the
battle of Inkerman the rifle was of immense service ; not
only was it effective in thinning the Russian battalions, but
it also kept down the fire of their batteries at very long
range. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the observations of
the noble earl as to the superiority of the French civil depart-
ment of the army over ours, the cause was altogether
owing to their being engaged for the last quarter of a century
in Algeria, where from 80,000 to 100,000 of the French
army were constantly acquiring a knowledge of the art and
business of war. Such had not been the case with our troops.
(Hear, hear.) But he could not agree with the noble earl as
to the inferiority of our military education, inasmuch as the
warmest testimony had been borne to the system at Sand-
hurst by Sir Charles Napier and other distinguished officers.
He should say of the army in general, that no continental na-
tion had so excellent or perfect a state of military affairs as
that produced by our regimental system in point of drill and
discipline, to say nothing of the spirit andiatfection it infused
into the men for each other. That was well known of the
infantry ; and Balaklava gave proof of it in the case of the
cavalry. (Hear, hear ) Our artillery officers were promoted
at too advanced a period of life—that he should admit ; but
otherwise no artillery in Europe excelled ours. The com-
missariat might bo more perfect, but the consolidation advo-
cated by the noble earl would not, in his (Lord Hardingo's)
opinion, remedy the evils complained of, and which they all
sincerely deplored.

Lord CAMPBELL said ho rose to give his humble but sin-
cere advice to his noble friend (Earl Grey) not to withdraw
the motion. Ho believed it expressed the unanimous opinion
of their lordships. Why then should it not be recorded on
the proceedings of the house ? The system, not individuals,
was most to blame
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH concurred with the noble I
duke opposite (the Duke of Newcastle) in thinking that this '
motion should not be pressed, because, whilst the Govern-
ment was in its present position, it would not be altogether
fair. None of their lordships could tell who might be Mini-
ster of War to-morrow--perhaps it might be the noble earl
(Earl Grey) himself. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The Go-
vernment was at present in the position of a prisoner at the
bar whilst the jury was out considering its verdict—(a laugh)
—and, perhaps, to-morrow's sun would shine on them no
longer as a body of gentlemen forming the Government.of the
country, but as pronounced " guilty," and, consequently,
holding a different position in the Legislature from that
which they now occupied. (Hear, hear.) It was contrary
to his opinion of public policy that this motion should be made
when there was practically no Government to speak upon it.
He (the Earl of Ellenborough) had frankly and frequently
expressed his opinion of the conduct of her Majesty's Govern-
ment since the commencement of this war. He had accused
them of want of knowledge, want of promptitude, and want
of ferethouzht e+ +' I
. .1,,,,, fin,r hr should admit 1-.;,,,-,lf
guilty of gross injustice if he did not admit, on the fullest
consideration, that by far the greatest portion of our calami-
ties originated in the Crimea, and not here. (Cries of " Hoar,
hear.") Had Ivo a Wellington or a Sir George Murray in
command the public never would have heard of the slightest
portion of those sufferings. He (the Earl of Ellenborough)
deeply deplored the position of the Minister of War,
answerable as he was for the commissariat department,
under the management of Sir Charles Trovelyan, whose
elaborate paper he (the noble earl) had endeavoured
to understand. (A laugh.) He (the Earl of Ellenborough)
had conducted the war department, the financial department,
' and the whole diplomatic concerns of a great empire. No
person ever disobeyed one of his laws—he never had to seed
in an estimate, or look at the details of accounts. (A laugh.)
In this country we were a small military power ; in. India we
wore a great military power, owing to our system, and wars
were carried on well. He placed no faith in this amalgama-
tion system ; and, therefore—but particularly seeing the
position in which Ministers were at present placed—he should
regret if the noble earl (Earl Grey) peristed in moving his
resolution.

After a brief pause,
Earl GREY rose to reply, and repeated his censure of the
divided responsibility which at present existed, the result of
which was that the affairs of the army were improperly
managed.

Tim motion was then withdrawn, and their lordships
adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-YESTERDAY.

The SPBAKI4 took the chair shortly before 4 o'clock,
PRIVATE BILLS.

On the - motion of Mr. BROTHIMTON, leave was given
to bring in a number of private bills. The bills were
subsequently brought in and read a first time.

STANDING ORDERS.

On the motion of Mr. GREED, the following members
were nominated to serve on the select committee on
standing orders, viz., Mr. Wilson Patten, Mr, Henley,
Mr. Sotheron, Mr. Thos. Greene, Sir J. Y. Buller, Sir
R. Ferguson, Mr. E. Denison, Capt. Jones, Mr. Wright-
son, Mr. Bratnston, and Mr. Thornely.
COMMITTEE OF SELECTION.

On the motion of Mr. GREEN, the following members
were nominated as the committee of selection :—Mr.
Sotheron, Sir John Y. Buller, Sir Robt. Ferguson, Mr.
Bonham-Carter, and the Chairman of the Select Com-
mittee on Standing Orders.