The Sun.
London, England, 1855-07-28 00:00:00

Viscount GODERICH then moved the amendment of
which he had given notice, namely, to leave out of the
operation of the bill any company having a capital stock
of the nominal amount of not less than 20,0001.. divided
into shares of a nominal value of not less than 251. His
object in moving this amendment was to give the bene-
fit of this bill to companies that had less capital than
20,0001., and not to allow companies that had a capital
cf 20,0001. and upwards to have a monopoly.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS seconded the amendment. He
could not see why any party having a capital of even
only 1,0001. should not be entitled to the benefits of the
bill.
Mr. EWART supported the amendment of the noble
viscount (Goderich), considering that the bonefit of the
bill ought to be extended to small capitalists.
Mr. A. WILKINSON also supported the amend-
ment of the noble viscount, thinking that the man who
had small means and the most honest intentions ought
to be allowed to avail himself, if he thought fit, of the
provisions of the bill.
Mr. HASTIE supported the amendment, thinking
that its operations ought to be taken advantage of by the
middling classes.
Mr. BOUVERIE was willing, if it met with the ap-
probation of the committee, to reduce the amount of the
minimum capital to 10,0001., and the value of the
shares to 201. instead of 251.
Mr. MITCHELL thought the course taken by the
Government was inconsistent with that which it had
pursued on former occasiocs. He could not see why any
limit should be made as to the amount of capital.
Mr. HENLEY could not see the necessity for limit-
ing the amount of capital at all. He thought it would
be far better to leave parties to look to the nature of the
concern in which they proposed to embark, and leave
them to do as they like, putting aside any notion of
limit altogether.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the object
of the bill was to define each man's liability, and to pub-
lish to the world what those liabilities were. If the
present amendment was carried, and he believed that to
he the object of its noble mover—(cries of "No, ne,"
from Lord G-oderich)—the whole preamble of the bill
would be vitiated.
Mr. CARDWELL said the object of the bill was to
cut up monopoly by the root, and .he asserted that if the
bill was carried with any limitation, monopoly, instead
of being cut up by the root, would be increased and multi-
plied. Ile warned the small traders of the country
that if this bill passed with any limit, they would be at
the mercy of the great capitalists. If the bill was carried
without any limit the law would be clear to everybody,
and they would on' r have themselves to blame if they
got into difficulty.
Lord PALAIERSTON said that the limit of 10,0001.
was quite sufficient to show that a real existence was
given to substantial companies, but to give the same ad-
vantage to companies of greatly smaller capital appeared
to him ridiculous ; for instance to companies of shares
of the value of is. 6d. and 201. capital.
Mr. LOWE maintained that the badge of fraud was
large capitals and not small ones. He should, there-
fore, support the amendment of the noble viscount.
Lord J. MANNERS supported the amendment, be-
lieving that there oncht to be no limits in the bill.
Viscount GODERICH replied, stating his determi-
nation to persevere in his amendment.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL stated, that if the
amendment of the noble viscount was carried, it would
be impossible to carry out the principle of the bill.
Mr. HENLEY deprecated the course pursued by the
Solicitor-General, and considered it unworthy of the high
position he held.
Mr. COWAN, in order to relieve the Government
from the difficulty into which they appeared to have got,
would move that the Chairman should report progress.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but
Lord PALMERSTON said he would not trouble the
house to divide upon the amendment. (Hear, hear.)
The provision therefore with respect to the limitation of
capital was omitted from the clause.
Lord GODERICH then proposed an amendment to
omit the words fixing the amount of shares, and upon it
the committee divide, when there appeared—
For the original motion
Against it
Majority against amendment —s4
The amendment was consequently lost.
Mr. WILLIAMS then moved the substitution of 51.
for 251. as the amount of shares.
Viscount EBRINGTON seconded the amendment.
Mr. BOUVERIE opposed the amendment, but stated
his willingness to substitute 101. provided 50 per cent. of
the shares was paid up.
The house then resumed, the chairman reported pro-
gress, and obtained leave to it again tomorrow at 12
o'clock.

Lord HARROWBY presented several petitions from
Wolverhampton praying for the closing of public-houses
on the Lord's-day.
Earl FORTESCUE presented a petition from the
Rev. C. C. Layard, complaining of the refusal of the
Bishop of Exeter to institute him to the perpetual curacy
of Escot, in the county of Devon. He (Lord For-
tescue) was anxious that the reverend prelate referred
to in the petition should have been present, but in
answer to a communication sent to him, the reverend
prelate said illness would prevent his being in the house,
but requested that his written reply might be read to
the house. It was to the effect that, if ever he (the
Bishop of Exeter) were presented, he would consider
it his duty to remain silent on the subject matter of his
petition, and that if Mr. Layard considered himself ag-
grieved, he had the ecclesiastical courts of the country
to apply to. The noble earl then proceeded to
refer to cases in which such application had been made,
and in which the expenses amounted to such enormous
sums as to render it impossible for a poor curate to avail
himself of such courts. Indeed, the rev. prelate in his reply
remarked upon the heavy expenses attending a resort to
those tribunals, and said he would be happy to use his
best exertions to reduce them to a more reasonable
standard. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord then
read several letters, being testimonials given to
the rev. gentleman, with a view of showing that the
character, respectability, and orthodoxy of Mr. Layard
were above reproach. The petitioner stated that
he bad taken the oath of canonical obedience,
and he concluded by assuring their lordships that his
case was by no means an uncommon one in the diocese
of Exeter, and he therefore prayed "that clergymen
might, upon simply renewing, ex animo, their declara-
tion of conformity and their oath of canonical obedience
as required by law, be reasonably and safely admitted
by the bishop to any; beneficial cure of souls, when they
had already been engaged in the cure of souls in that
diocese without having incurred his censure, or when,
having served in another diocese, they brought with them
a bene exeat from the bishop thereof."
A short conversation then ensued, in which several
noble lords took part, as to whether it was in accordance
with the standing orders of the house that petitions
should be printed with the votes. It was decided that
although the standing orders were silent on the subject,
to do so was not in conformity with their lordships'
practice.
The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
Lord BROUGHAM then laid on the table a bill, the
object of which is to repeal several remaining acts of Par-
liament imposing penalties for heresy, usury, schism,
&c. Unfortunately, said the noble lord, the statute-book
abounds in intolerant laws which ought to have been
swept away, not needled. Lord St. Leonards, before
he left office, abolished about thirty of these statutes,
but the bill which he (Lord Brougham) now proposed to
their lordships would sweep away about 120 more. One
act remaining in force required that every person of the
Jewish persuasion should wear a particular badge—(a
laugh)—another pressed with absurd restrictions upon
the descendants of subjects of this country born abroad.
The late Duke of Gloucester was, he believed, born at
Rome, and was naturalised as being the son of a
British-born subject ; but a son of the Duke of Nor-
folk, a Catholic, if so born abroad, could not have been
naturalised. The bill would also deal with acts of Par-
liament with respect to the repeal of which by previous
legislation there remained a doubt. It was doubtel, for
instance, whether a certain act had been repealed
imposing penalties for the non-acknowledgment of the
real presence. There was doubt also with regard to
acts imposing penalties for slander, defamation, heresy,
schism, incontinence, and usury. Usury ! Why, by the
law of the land there was no such thing as " usury,
and yet acts were supposed to remain in force recognis-
ing its existence. Dissenters also laboured under a dis-
advantage arising oat of the compulsory registration of
meeting-houses. It was not as a Dissenter, but as a
Churchman, that he called for the repeal of these old
acts, and claimed the abolition of acts of Parliament or
parts of acts which were the remains of a persecuting
code. He proposed that the bill should be read a first
time, and referred to the statute law commission.
The LORD CHANCELLOR expressed his approval
of the bill, which he thought it would be advisable to
refer to the statute law commission, although at first
sight it might be considered questionable to refer a bill
to a body appointed to consolidate, not repeal, laws.
The bill was then read a first time.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS ESTATE (IRELAND).
Lord MONTEAGLE moved for certain returns rela-
tive to the Irish Charitable Estates Commission.—Or-
dered.
-

SLAVE TRADE (SHERBRO) BILL.
Lord WODEHOUSE moved to suspend the stand-
ing orders in respect to a bill to carry into effect con-
ventions with certain chiefs of the Sherhro country, in
Africa, for the supprnsion of the slave trade.
The Earl of DERBY observed that the conventions
were dated in last year ; and if the measure were so
urgent why had it not been introduced before ?
Lord WODEHOUSE made a brief explanation, and
the resolution was agreed to.
The bill was read a second time.
The Convention with United States Bill was read a
third time.
The Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction Bill was read a third

TURKISH LOAN.
Lord PALMERSTON stated it to be his intention
when the house resumed at six o'clock to move that all
the other orders of the day should be postponed for
considering the Turkish Lean Bill in committee.
The house adjourned shortly before 4 o'clock to G.

The house resumed at six o'clock.
INVENTIONS FOR TILE WAR.
Mr. EWART asked the Clerk of the Ordnance whether
satisfactory progress continued to be made in mechanical
and other inventions laid before the select committee of
the Board of Ordnance, with a view to shortening the
duration of the war ?
Mr. MONSELL could only inform the hon. gentleman
that there had been 974 inventions since last year laid be-
fore the committee, of which 695 had been rejected, and
there were now remaining for trial 123. The select com-
mittee was diviLled into five sub-committees, upon every
one of which were men eminent for their scientific know-
ledge and a,ttrintnents. They were working very hard, in-
deed, in making inquiries as to every invention. There
were many inventions supposed to be of considerable im-
portance which were at this moment being carried out by
private contractors at the expense of Government ; and he
trusted that some others would be attended by the desired
results.

time.
The report on the Militia Officers Qualifications Bill
was received.
The Trinity College (Dublin) Bill passed through com-
mittee.
Several bills from the House of Commons were pre-
,erited and read a first time.
Lord MONTEAGLE said there ought to t e the
earliest information as to which of these measures were
likely to pass.
Earl GRANVILLE said he would give notice of the
time at which they would come on for discussion.
Their lordships then adjourned.

ORDER OF MERIT.
Lord ELCHO asked the First Lord of the Treasury if the
intention of instituting a new order of merit for distin-
HOUSE OF COMAIONS—(YESTERDAY.)
baui the Duke of Newcastle in the month of December, had
The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock. been abandoned ; and if not, what was the cause of the
Haiford's Estate Bill was read a second time. d .lay, and when it was probable that it would be instituted
TURKISH LOAN BILL. and ready for di,tributien ?
On the order of the day for going into committee on Lord PALMERSTON—It was the intention of Govern-
this bill, ment to issue the regulations for instituting the new order
Mr. GLADSTONE said he did not intend to raise as soon as possible. The only cause of delay had been,
that when they came to make detailed arrangements as to
any objection to the bill at this stage of the measure, the practical test that was to be applied to private soldiers,
yet he believed an impression had gone abroad, from its and matters of that sort, more difficulties were encountered
second reading passing yesterday in silence, that it was than they had anticipated :he hoped, however, that those
better to accept the measure rather than run the chance difficulties would
COLLEGE OF very shortIySANDHURST. be surmounted. (Hear.)
of incurring certain inconveniences. (Hear, hear.) If
they had taken powers in the hid to modify the coeven- Sir F. BARING asked the Under Secretary for War
tion with Turkey they would have got rid of the pro- what were the intentions of Government respecting the re-
spective dangers which he then confidently told Ahemounyecommendations in the reporteof
commendationsrit the Sandhurst commission?
they would hereafter incur with France. (Hear, hear.)
the committee on th
The Government had not thought fit to pay the least at- p militaryrequired l college et
ua at
e taen Sandhurst,
which any immediate step
tention to the speeches of the large number of gentle-
in the course of the present war should be appointed to the
which proposel th at ten sons ofofficers wh o had losi theainr lives
men who opposed the measure at the first stage, and
they had not thought fit to pay any atten- college, there to receive their education at the public ex-
tion to the unanimous disapproval of the measure penal ; that ten more should be appointed in the course of
manifested by the house. He wished to know next year; and that the estimates for the college for the
if the convention had been submitted to the law ensuing financial year should
tion make prldoviision to cover
To t the
e
officers of the crown, and if so, be should claim his right
expense which such an addi wounvolve,
they rei:commendation he saw no objection whatever, and the
as a member of that house to ask for the opinion
ur overn ra e u t would be prepared, therefore, to act upon it
five millions sterline
gave on it. We were undertaking to guarantee, con-
jointly with France, the interest of accordingly. The report also recommended that the board
e of commissioners should undergo some alterations, chiefly
to be lent to Turkey, but the French version of it was with the view of enabling a revsion to take place of the
conjointly and severally. He thought, when two parties course of studies in the junior and senior departments, and
entered into a joint and several liability each was liable, that in the senior department a staff of professors should
but he believed that was not the case in this convention. be appointed, also to be maintained at the expense of the
He believed that an instrument of this kind, which was public. These were suggestions which he thought were
novel in international loans, should be accompanied very proper to be considered, but it appeared to him that
by full explanations. He found that the interest tithe they rather formed part of the larger question, which
loan was to be transferred by the Sultan to the Bk of would shortly come before Parliament,. namely, the quea:
England, and that the proceeds of the loan were also to tion of education for the army, n its higher and
be paid into the Bank of England. Now, if that was lower
cuuburealnicqlaari(Er
said
, hear )
dthere. were already ten orphans in
so, he wanted to know were the subscribers to the loan the establishment—eight the sons of officers in the army,
to have a right to receive their money at the Bank of
England ? (Hear.) He saw an hon. member near him, in the new regulations ? the committee
and two of officers in the navy. Were they to be included.
the member for Bath (Mr. Tite) who had lately come Mr. PEEL' said the recommendation of
into the house pledged to support administrative reform, was, that ten orphans should now be a
.! appointed to the col-
and he wanted to know if they were not by such a mea- lege, and they would not include thostr ;lino were there at
sure as this making, when they ought to be making at the present time. S GUA_RDS.
THE QUEEN'
T:irileto.o,33Qsi.iee's Irish Guards
least a snail's progress in administrative reform, only a
crab's progress and going backwards. (Hear, hear.)
Supposing we felt inclined to lay hands on Egypt, would whether,
in the thimea, her Majestyf's Government would
Ilikeltrh.
eVr V.
havingSCUL LrYegaarskdedtothteheFigrastuaLnotrduoufutdhueutTurfealsruirshy
France have a right to occupy that or any other Turkish
arrangements in their
province ? How could we appeal to the convention on should be embodi
Nr
intidi rScotch
regiments ar to those en-
that point ? The questions he had now put he hoped joyed by the
lis lieudgusliae Guards? of Grenadier,
were very
her Majesty's Government would give a distinct answer rCeoclodmstareeanmd,
ALa.tERSTON said that Government
to, but they must not be put off with political declama- Lord r
of
making any
tion, for it was the duty of the house to find out on whatthat,?. a Royal regi
(ocasions, both
butea land, the Crown andneeosuntry
clesirous
would be gratifying to the Irish, to whose services on all
owed so much ; andiegd to the particular ronposi-
terms they were entering into such a novel engagement.
tion of the. hon.
emember, it was considered that the Guards
Lord PALMERSTON said he clearly understood
and that their privileges placed
there was to be no discussion on this stage of the bill.
Gentlemen bad come down for another purpose, and be were a purievrulegl a body,
must therefore move that the chairman report progress. tteemar,mmy more or in a position with regard to the rest of
(Hear, hear.)
~..i.ER
said, as but ever i was sometimes made the subject of obser-
nd he this privileged on inued the noble lord) that
Mr. GLADSTONE said he really meant nothing that viedataicionv.is(aHmecal (Hear.)
inWereeatsheintkhe(c
corps already bears as large a proportion to
n of the rest of
the
would put the Government to inconvenience, a.
should therefore willingly accede to suggestio .. . the army as is expedient and that it would be
the noble lord. (Hear.) y endeavour will be made to ind.nuce the Irish con-
estta.bli'shme t of that body,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCEr u stabulary to r •
which en ist into the existing regiments of Guards,
shall be considered, whatever their origin may have
questions. been
/ea), Mr. Glynn, and ~ - ,of belongieg to the United Kingdom, and not pecu-
far as he was concerned, he was prepared answer his
After a few remarks from yr. 1 artily to England and Scotland or Ireland. They, in truth,
Mr. Henley, would I consist of men who enlist indiscriminately from all parts
the table any corresn of the United Kingdom, and as such I trust that every
to lay on
if rte Government
."- part fth le ed will think that it has some share in
o e me om
haMvera.nMy
0.
bGjeleStiSun
ON asked
of the glories which may attend the services of that distin-
k on the subject
and Tur ey
passed between the Governments '
Of this guished corps. (Hear, hear.)
dEenngcleautdh,aFt
France'
e,
RSTON said he should make inuiries Colonel DUNNE said that Irishmen had been refused to
loan ?
Lord PALME
the head of the be enlisted in the Guards until the war commenced. (Hear.)
Foreign-office Mr. V. SCULLY, finding that he must treat the answer
on
of the noble lord as a civil refusal, begged.. to give notice
that subject.
LIABILITY BILL.
then agreed that the discussion on the bill that he should take the earliest opportunity of bringing
should come on at the evening sitting this day.
o f
ihtiownaosblLel friend i eI niidEaDt
shou the matter before the house and having it fully discussed.
WIDOWS OF NAVAL OFFICERS.
Sir G. TYLER asked the First Lord of the Admiralty
The house then went into committee on the above
what steps the Admiralty had taken to extend to the
bill. widows of officers of the Royal Navy the boon which her
Majesty had lately conferred upon the widows of officers of
On clause 1, the army, by extending the pension warrant, so as to
Mr. WILKINSON moved an amendment to exempt
create a special scale of pensions for the widows of officers
insurance companies. who might die from illness contracted in the field ; also,
Mr. HENLEY opposed the amendment.. If such an whether it was true that the widow of the late Admiral
exemption were extended to insurance companies, surely Boxer had only been granted the ordinary pension for an
they could net refuse to extend the same principle to admiral's widow, viz., 1201. a year ?
banks.
Mr. BOUVERIE 'd Oaksmere treated ism
opeole the Admiralty were quite of opinion that no distinction
Sir C. WOOD, in reply to the first question, said that