The Sun.
London, England, 1855-02-24 00:00:00

er were sick. That was all it knew. Members spoke of
these things to Ministers. They were most eloquent in
defense of themselves; panegyrics upon each other were
unbounded—(Opposition cheers)—the defence of their own
red-tapism were distracting ; but when we spoke of the
-houseless, starved, frost-bitten army, no pitying word, no
eye afforded one tear. (Cries of Oh, oh, and cheers.) Since
some hon.gentlemen were so positive in their contradictions
let them produce Hansard, and show him one sentence
until Friday last, when the noble lord new at the head of
' the Government brought forward this question—show him
one word which ever admitted the evils. The Ministers
positively denied that the state of the army was such as it
was represented to be. (Opposition cheers.) These gen-
tlemen who had recently governed the country, did not
seem at all aware of the real condition into which they had
brought the country. At a moment when negotiations
were going on which could not be suspended without de-
triment to the public service—at a time when any delay
caused additional hardships to our wretched army—at a
time when it was of the utmost importance to be provided
with a strong Government, what were they doing ? Either
running away from their places, or, like spoiled servants,
when the house is on fire and the mistress calls them to
put it out, John won't come unless Bill will ' • Tom won't
come unless Harry will, and so the house went on burning.
We had heard before of the farce of High Life below Stairs.
This was the tragedy of Low Life acted up-Stairs. (Oppo-
sitiono cheers.) This was not the worst of it. The Geevecrine:
an; re onyt e, dwhich
enormous had confessedly
army,
w h i
ebhy
hsheer
broughtineotphe.
of Europe upon us, which had producedatmittitactisvmesryun
our military skill in the German papers, the mockery
highest mark of
t very Government —(continusa
favour upon the head of that
h )---'rn arting insult
mo-
ment they advised the Crown to confer the. i
of the universal
to the views of that house, in contempt
and in defiance of the sense of all
cheering from the Opposition benches)—imparting es i p
feeling of the country,cid not deny that there was much
Europe. (Cheers.)
by the report of danger. Let
were they to be seared
h gentleman (Mr
The right on.
danger to be apprehenHdeedifrom this committee—(hear)—
butthem be taught to avoid it.
would be a sham.
promised
He him that it should be no
He (Mr. Drummond) 1
tconcerned
he need not be in the least on that score.
S. Herbert) was afraid the committee
sham ;
(Hear.) The opponents of the committee raised up ques-
tions which they knew the committee never intended to
put; and then asked whether the house would entrust such
questions to eleven members. Could they not inquire how
it was that when these active men of nine months' war be-
gan to find out that a waggon train was waited they made
waggons, but forgot the harness ? He should like to know,
at a time the country was running breast high against
French influence, what it would have said if it had thought
the day would have come when 10,000 soldiers should be
fighting in French uniforms, and receiving 10,000 rations
of fresh meat, because there was not brains enough in her
Majesty's Ministers to send it out ? Could the committee
not find out why the horses were starved, and why the
wood huts remained, no one knew how long, at Bristol,
and were not long ago still at Southampton? It was into
the civil departments they wanted to inquire. There never
was any intention on the part of his hon. and learned
friend (Mr. Roebuck), of himself, or of any one whom he
had heard his hon. and learned friend consult as to the for-
mation of the committee, to inquire into anything relating
to the conduct of the war; but, as he had already said, he
did think it dangerous, so dangerous that the house ought
to take the responsibility upon itself and give instructions
to the committee. He did not think it ought to be left to
the committee. He might give them many insights into
the dangers. He did not wish to excite their John Bellism
or anti-French feelings, but he would appeal to their
honour as gentlemen. They had, wisely or unwisely, gone
into a partership. They had not passed a bill for limit-
ing liability, and it was not fair or honest of them to in-
quire into anything but what related to themselves. They
had no right to make the misconduct of their own Govern-
ment an excuse for inquiring into that of France. There-
fore, he thought that anything of this sort ought in some
way, either by an understanding with the Government or
by instructions from the house, to be provided against.
Lord SEYMOUR had voted against the committee, and
he adhered to the opinion he then expressed. He consi-
dered that inquiry would be at this time fraught with
great inconvenience to the public service. It would be
injurious to the army in the Crimea, and very embarras-
sing in regard to those preparations which we ought to be
making for the campaign in the spring. (Hear, hear.)
But he understood that the Government acceded to the
committee, and having been asked by a member of the
Government to allow his name to stand upon it, he felt it
his duty to do so. He did that after consultation with his
hen. friend the member for Coventry (Mr. Ellice), who
agreed with him in all he said as to the inconvenience of
the inquiry, and as to its clanger, unless it were very care-
fully guided either by instructions from the house or by
1 its own good sense—a matter which, with the strong feel-
ing existing in the country, would be very difficult to ac-
complish. At this moment we ought to be making pre-
parations for the spring campaign ; but our military de-
partments—the War-office, the office of the Secretary at
War, the Horse-Guards, the Ordnance, the Commissariat,
the medical department—would not be looking to the ap-
proaching campaign, but would be making every exertion
to defend themselves against the inquiry of the commitee.
(Hear.) He felt as strongly as any one could the difficul-
ties which this inquiry would impose upon the public ser-
vice, and he also felt that, if there were to be an inquiry,
it must in justice to the feelings of their friends and rela-
tions in this country—in justice to the late Ministers
whose characters were impugned—and in co npliaace with
the general wishes of this country, it must be a most care-
ful and searching inquiry.
Mr. LOWE was anxious to state to the house a few of
the reasons which weighed strongly in his mind against pro-
ceeding any further with the proposed inquiry. An hon.
member opposite had said that it was impossible for the
house to reverse itajudgraent en the subject, bat he thought
he (Mr. Lowe) should be paying the house a far higher
compliment if he supposed that it would be possible for the
house to amend its resolution when it found [that it had
been induced to come to a hasty and improper decision.
The house was called upon to grant a committee to in-
quire into the condition of the army before aebastopol,
and into the conduct of those departments which had had
the administration and conduct of that army. The hon.
member for Surrey had very properly said that the inquiry
must he limited in some way. But how was the inquiry
to be limited ? Were the limits to exclude any inquiry
which mn tbe dangerous to our alliance with France ? If
so, how was it to be done? We were to inquire into the
condition of the army in the Crimea. The committee
would, therefore, have to inquire into the conduct of these
who had charge of the army out there. The first question
which would arise would be on the part of those who cri-
minate the condition of the army, and who would say,
" You were side by side with the army of another nation,
not po‘sessing the same maritime resources as yourselves,
and yet that army was in an excellent condition. Why
was yours not so?" Those who defended themselves, or
those who were generous enough to take the part of the
absent, would urge that the difference between the condi-
tion of the English and French armies was not, in truth,
so great as had been imagined ; and upon this an issue
would be raised. That would be the very question upon
which the verdict of the committee would turn, and if
they intended to do justice to the parties accused, they
could not exclude that question from the consideration of
the committee. Tree, they might exclude it by an arbi-
trary rule, but by so doing they would deprive the parties
upon their trial of their best and strongest defence. How
could the committee attempt to fix an enduring and inde-
lible stain upon the men who had been entrusted with
these things, if they withheld any portion of the defence
which those men might be disposed to offer? Then, again,
if the result of the inquiry were to be made known to
the world, it would, in his opinion, greatly imperil our
present alliance with France ; and it was not to be ex-
pected that the Emperor of the French would attach
the same valve to an alliance with a country which
for party or political purposes wished to inquire into every
act connected with the administration of his army. lf,
therefore, they refused to go fully into the question, they
would endanger the interest and reputation of those whose
conduct was called in question ; and, on the other hand,
if they inquired minutely into the subject, they would en-
danger the stability of our valuable alliance with France.
On the ground of justice, too, he felt•that the inquiry of
the committee must inevitably result in failure. Was it
wise to make it appear at the present moment to the na-
tions of Europe that the House of Commons sought to bet
up an antagonistic system—that our Government pommies'
a principle of quality, and that those who as a Government
put forward propositions to-day were really governed by
another power, which was the House of Commons, and
that there could be no assurance that all the proposals
made might not be completely set aside next week? He
was anxious that this great breach in our system of go-
.vernment—this formidable attack upon our means of
offence and defence—this measure, which se nearly
menaced oar alliance with France and materially affected
our position in Europe, should net pass by without his
having offered it at least his most humble protest.
General REEL stated that although his name had been
placed on the committee, he still felt, as he had stated on a
previous occasion, that the result of the inquiry would be
valueless, if not positively injurious. Having, however,
consented to serve on the committee, he was ready to do
all that lay in his power to assist in realising the expecta-
tions of the country. The hon. and gallant member ex-
plained that on a former occasion he had been reported to
have said that he was not surprised to witness the despon-
dency of the public with respect to our operations in the
East ; the word which he had employed was " indignation'
and not "despondency," for he certainly had never felt
anything like a feeling of despondency, but, on the con-
trary, had uniformly entertained the opinion that what-
ever might have been the blunders made at the commence-
ment there could be no doubt as to the result of our ope-
rations. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. SCOTT said that, altheag,h he felt regret at the re-
tirement from the Cabinet of the three right hon. gentle-
men opposite, he undoubtedly felt more astonishment at
the course they had taken. For where was the altered
state of circumstances between the state of things as they
now existed and that upon which they Consented to join
the Government ? (Heor.) It might be very well for those
right hon. gentlemen to say that the vote of the house in-
volved a censure upon the Government ; but, speaking for
himself, and for, he believed, the majority of his friends,
the sole greunds for that vote were the sufferings and loss
which had occurred in the army at the seat of war. If
the committee were granted, and supposing it to be formed
of men of competent ability, confidence would be restored,
and the required number of recruits would soon be re-
turned. (Hear.)
Mr. G. TERNON opposed the committee. The hon. and
gallant general who had spoken (Gen. Peel) showed that it
would be most inconvenient ; the noble lord who was to be
chairman (Lord Seymour) also showed that it would be
most dangerous, as well as insonvenient ; and the hon.
member for West Surrey most unanswerably proved that
it would be worse than useless—mischievous. The hon.
Wthaascointdsuoalteloyf
member said there was no intention to inquire into the
conduct of the war. What, then, was the inquiry for ?
in atshe
the state of the army, a
wvaort e? of
Tcensure p
people
en
hadthose
dwhoeep had
interesthad
feting
and . now in a situation of great suf-
and the some peril, and ne doubt some of that suffering
delayavoided. But how
has taken place might have been,
quire into the state might have
klava ; but were they
or the general abroZdt:
was a committee of that house to in-
been ed of an army 3,000 miles off ? There
of England would ever
the officers engagetl
end that, should mistakes
sacrifice themselves thsn
in making the road from Bala-
blame the Government at home,
He trusted that the Ministers
in
the
asow their mantles over
service of the country,
occur, they would rather ,
cast blame
It was s lid that Nye had suffered
National disgrace, after Alma on their officers. '
. licaidanvaational, disgrace.
By whom was it wrought ? By Minietaes'ar tidni-ak7Taan.
position cheers.). That was a matter of opieion.-R - op-
were deeply anxious about the state of the army bc:iropl.
wanted was a change of men, not hu' It they
query- It was
action—it was a strong
Government—it wasa 'salt that the
by
and not an inquiry the House of cos,
people wanted,
or Aylesbury had anticipated
inquiry, hon. member f .
mons.
prejudged the verdict. He (Mr. G. Ver.
inquiry, and had
her Majesty's Government a cor-
non) was inclined to give
dial support, and he would to the best of his power sup.
with vigour, but he did
port them in carrying on the war

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