The National Register.
London, England, 1811-02-24 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS.

• •
MONDAY, FEB. 18. 4,,
• CATHOLICS OF IRELAND.
The Earl of Mont A said, be should be without excuse In the
eyes of the country, if he' did not call the attention of the House
to the subject to which he was about to advert.' Their Lords
ships would no doubt all anticipate that he was about to allude
to the very extraordinary measure which had recently been
adopted in Ireland, in issuing circular letters to the Magistrates,
to prevent the meetings of the Catholics. Every one who had
lived in any society in this metropolis, must recollect the sur-
prise which was occasioned by the sudden departure of Mr.
Secretary Pole to Ireland, and the various motives which were
assigned for that sudden journey. He was certain that the pre-
vious sanction of the Prince Regent had not been obtained to
this measure—and he would give Ministers their choice of one
out of two branches of an alternative, either of which must tend
most strongly to the condemnation of their conduct—tither at
the time of the departure of Mr. Secretary Pole for Ireland,
they were certain of being continued in office by the Prince
Regent,, or they were not. If they were, they acted most unfitly
and improperly (to use no stronger terms,) in taking the advan-
tage of the period before the Regent was. sworn in, to resort to
such a measure without having the decency to consult his Royal
Highness upon a measure which so deeply implicated his Go-
vernment. If they were not certain of being continued in office,
and expected that they would not be allowed to remain the Mt-
nisters of the Regent, then he could only compare their condnct
to that of incendiaries, who set fire to the House they were
about to leave, because they were not to he allowed to inhabit
it. But why was the Convention Act thus referred to for the
purpose of preventing the Meetings of the Catholics ?-m—an Act
which had passed long before that Union at which the .pledge
and Lssurance was given that the Claims of the Catholics should
he conceded. He trusted that proper information would' be
given, and, at all events, it was fittin.- that the Circular Letter
to the Magistrates of Ireland should be laid before the Wise,
for which document his Lordship concluded by moving,
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, he felt very little embarrasstbent
at the alternative put by the Noble Lord for the choice of Mi-
nisters, the facts being, that the journey of Mr. Secrefitt,Pule
to Ireland had no connectiat with this toe:l,4lre, or any cit.:Ann-
stance supposed to be connected with it ; that no-preylous
satinion or instructions from hence were riven Irfriche'mtattlrei
7!ild that the Ministcrs •of his Royal Highness the rrtuee
R egent were wholly ignorant, until Thursday ni.ht, titht-sneh a
measure had been r.sorted to. He had no objection to the mu►
tion of the Noble Lord, provided anc;thcr doctnrelt* alio
laid before the House, namely, the Circular Letter iSstljd by the
c
Secretary of the Catholic C.untnittee at Dublin.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE W:ti gild that no 'sanction or
instructi-ms had been given by Ministers for this measure,
Mt..t sati'fact!ongreater than he coni•l cares.,, with a view to
the future hopes of Ireland, at ledrning that this incasurt ,had
not emanated frrtn the Prince Regent.
Earl DARN t.tnr comidered the very ignorance of the extraor-
dinary order of Mr. Sreretary Pole avowed by en... Noble Secre-
,tary, amen:. fall and de(i;kted crimination of the loyernment to
which he belonged. It .aad long been a subject of lainentatiot
with him, to find the affairs of Ireland not only ill understood
by that House, but almost refused investigation both ,b1i11,1i•
• nisters and Parliament.

The Earl of LIMERICK rose for the purpose of pronomming
his decided condensnation of the statement advanced by the
Noble Earl (Moira,) that the Union was a: coinplished on the
ground of relieving Ireland from the opprt.ssions of their 1111
Parliament. He had the honour of having sat in that Parliantent
and was therefore not a little surprised in not hearing the details
of those oppressions to which the Noble Earl had alluded.
Lord HOLLAND observed that it was fortunate his Noble and
Gallant Friend (Earl Moira) had nor gone into a discussion of
those details of oppression with which the Irioh Parliament were
chargeable, because had he, done so, tht House, from the avow•
al of the Noble Earl who last add essed them, would have been
engaged in a debate wholly unconnected with the subjecOlow
before it. Whatever was his opinion of the. character of the
proceedings of that Legislature, it was unnecessary for hit-rig/then
to declare—lv--that character he would leave to History,
to appreciate—and referring it to history, sure he ...was,
that as to many parts of the conduct of that Paisiletnent,
he could not consign it to severer chastisement.—(fircir !Aim; !)
• lie wouldiliowever, refer•tne Noble Earl (Limeri, 4) felliih)se
persons who were-ruoVßasectiPlVlT earfliNt the
measure of Union into efl'ect ; and i he should think proper to
consult them:that Noble Earl would find that the repeal of thOse

he (

.Holland)

- • • .M. 04

at least odious to the people of was
couragements held out to procure the acquiescence of the Irish
people—an encouragement to vrhich the accomplishment of that
measure was to be particularly attributed.
'Fne Earl of Ross said, that he felt convinced that there w..s
no intention on the part of the Irish Government in enforcing
the provisions of the Convention Act, to prevent the Catholics
Wont petitioning Parliament. It was to be considered that there
was a Deputation of, ten Delegates from every caviar, and
some from the principle cities of ..Ireland, about to assemble in
Dublin, to the amount of 358 Members, holding as it were ano-
ther Parliament, and convened to do. we know not what.—
(Hear ! from Ministers.)—He asked if Government could go on
if such assemblies could be held, no matter for what objects ?
He was far from being disposed to think harshly of the Catho•
lie body, but the Irish Government must be supported • besides,
he was by no means sure that the enforcement of this Act would
create amongst the Irish the general. sensation which seemed to
be appsehended : it was to be recollected that there was a great
difference of opinion in the Assembly of the Delegates.. He did
ro-t know whether he might not be permitted to read as past of
_his speech, a Report which he held in his hand of the Proceed-
ings of the Assembly of Delegates on the 2d of February. The
proceedings ot that Assembly has hitherto been regularly re-
:.ted, in the same manner as the debates of either Houses of
Fat-nal-nem in this country.. It appeared from that Report, that
Mr. Keogh, a gentleman who was well known to possess a con-
eidurabic portion cif influence in that body, made a motion, that
the General Conitnittee, having exceeded the powers with
which they had beeh entrusted by the Aggregate Committee,
should be abolished. Mr. O'Connell then addressed the Chair
and object of iris speech was to shew that such a
.question
ough Lot to be put by the Chairman. Upon this occasion Lurd
Freocii is reported to have Said, in speaking of the Committee
You are appointed fur a special purpose, and your com-
mission is at an end." A division then took place, ayes 13, noes
24. This sheaved, that perhaps these Committees had by no
means the confulence of the majority of the Catholics, who
might 00, disapprove of this interposition on the part of the
Irish Government. He repeated his conviction, that the Go-
vernment in taking this step had not done it with the intention
ofpreventing the Catholics from petitioning.
I'll,. Earl of &tem SGRAMSIIIRE trusted that their Lordships
would not do so much injustice to the Irish Government, as to
eonclude, before they were in possession of the circumstances
which may have rendered the measure resorted to necessary,
that the measure was in itself unjustifiable.
The Earl of Do sou G Jimmie said, he rose to claim on the part
of that great portion of the strength of the Empire the Catho-
lics of Ireland, that mere justice which the Noble Lord had asked
in behalf of the Irish Government. He adatitted that they
should not condemn that act of the Irish Government before
they were informed of the grounds upon which it might hereaf-
ter be attempted to be justified ; but if their Lordships were re-
quired
to suspend their judgment of the Irish Government, he
did not know with what consistency they could be called upon
to presume the Catholics to be guilty.
Lord Rr.DESDALX thought it extraordinary that the Noble
1..0rd (Ross) should have been arraigned for having quoted in
favour of his views of the subject the authority of one of great
consideration among the Catholics themselves, to prove that the
Committee were exceeding their powers.
The motion was then put and carried.
IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT, &c.
Lord REDESDALE called the attention of the House to the
Bills which he had submitted to their Lordships in the course
of the last Session. The first was to enlarge the sum for which
persons could be arrested on mesne process—the second was to
establish a permanent provision for the relief of insolvent debtors
—Lied the third had for its object to provide for the Recovery of
Small Debts, upon the constitutional principle of legal practice,
namely, the intervention of, a Jury. ['he first had passed that
House, but had been sent to the other so late that it could not.
be passed there before the prorogation. l'he second had not
passed that House; and the third had been merely offered to
their consideration. In the hopes that this last would be brought
forward in another place, where it might be more convenient
that it should commence, he would not at present press it upon
the attention of their Lordships. With respect to the Bilrfor
the Relief of Insolvent Debtors, he would now submit that to
the Holler. He had to a certain extent new modelled it, but
iaot very materially. His object was to establish a single officer
—to give him a Court—and entrust him with the administration
ot the whole law on that subject. Some might differ with him
as to the number ; but the more he considered the subject, the
• more he was inclined to prefer a simple judge. He moved the
first reading of the Bill to enlarge the sum for which a person
could be arrested for debt oY mesas process.

-11 ;.‘ ,

THE NATIONAL REGISTER,

to Arrest!

and to

••••;••••••

117

le Relief of 114c14rt

TUESDAY, F. 19.
No busineu of Importance occurred this day. ' • •
WEDNESDAY, FE* W.
No business of importance ,occurred.—Adjourned till Friday.
11111••••••••1

..irrimmonime•grersmponar's
anctliialloble_Frienel Moiral • T he-Bills relative
* weal:Utak,
eland, was one of the main en- I —Adjourned. .