The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 20, 1855.

[ the practice under the law as it stands t but I must con-
[ice; rey belief elwa:ys- has been that this was one of the
anomalies and absurdities of the practice which induced
the house during the last year to do what it is not very
apt to do, and what I think it most wisely eschews doing—
namely, to pass an abstract resolution to the effect that
the law ought to be altered. My sight hon. friend pro-
poses that this Condition of giving securities shall be
retained, but that it shall be retained not as a condition of
publishing a newspaper, but as a condition of the postal
privilege. But, is it possible for this house to embody
permanently in one law a regulation founded upon such a
basis ? It is perfectly intelligible if a man tells me that
securities ought to be given by th3so who publish newspa-
pers. There may be differences of opinion upon that sub-
ject. Seine persons may think that these securities are
highly important for the protection of public order or of
private character. I confess that I am not of that opinion.
My belief is, that securities have this effect—they provide
that if the man who has given them commits an offence
against the law, and the party whom he has wronged pro-
ceeds against him in a court of justice, the man who has
committed the wrong shall have the meals of paying
counsel and attorneys to defend him. This, I believe, to
be the first effect of these securities. That is a question of
policy, but what question of policy, or what intelligible
motive or object can be connected with the retention of
securities as eacoudition of postal transmission ? Why, if
these securities are important at all they are important as
a protection, not to public men, not to Ministers of the I
Crown, or to members of this houss, but to the private
characters of individuals. Now, where is it important to
defend private character? Why, within the particular
sphere where each man is known • but if you are to say
to clergyman in Devonshire, "We? will take care you
shall not be libelled in Northumberland, where the people
know nothing about you, hilt you may .be libelled ad
libitum, by the newspapers published in your own town—
we will allow you to be libelled in that part of the country
where it is material that you should have your character
defended, but we will prevent you from being libelled in
a part of the country with which you have no connexion es
concern"—it is plain that you place your law upen an irra-
tional basis, and my right hon. friend will run great risk
of not attaining the object ho has in view—namely, that of
effecting a complete and final settlement of this long-vexed
question. There is another point which is not a matter of
indifference to me—namely, the question of copyright, for
the prOtection of literary property in newspapers. I don't
wonder, so far as we know anything of the plan of my right
hon. friend from his explanation to-night, that he has not
included in his biil any clauses upon this eubjeat. I think,
indeed, it is a matter with reference to which it would be
very difficult to devise a plan. At the same time lam
under the impression that the proprietors of newspapers,
in many cases, entertain great anxiety that the provisions
of the law with respect to the protection of literary pro-
perty should undergo special consideration, and should, if
practicable, receive some extension with a view to the
i
protection
of literary propertyn newspapers. Undoubt-
. .

• calculated at 200,0001., it is quite certain that a large por-
tion of that sum would haire bean replaced by the'postafte
rate for cheap printed matter, and, perhaps, oven a larger
aunt might have been obtained than the 200,000 i. about to
be lost. Whether that would be so or not is, of course, a
matter of opinion ; but I hope the present Chancellor of
the Exchequer will consider the prorosition of the late
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and add to his plan the pro-
posal of a cheap rate of postage for all printed matter. It
is a monstrous thing that the Times, for instance, weigh-
ing six ounces, or whatever else, is to be permitted for ld.
to be transmitted and retransmitted through the post for
the term of our natural lives, and yet I may not send once
through the post-office a pamphlet for Fl., though per-
fectly willing to pay that stem for a single transmission.
So far from any undue advantage being taken of the pro-
',meet change of the law by the transmission of improper
publications through the post, he would venture to say that
for one bad publication sent by post there would be 100
good publications circulated by it. There would be religious
tracts without number from philanthropic societies which
at present had no means of distributing their productions
throughout the country. With regard to the securities
afforded by the present system, the right hon. gentleman
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not correctly stated
the law upon that subject. The liability to give securities
did not apply to newspapers alone. Every person who pub-
lished a pamphlet which commented on matters of Church
and State and was sold at a less price than 6d., and con-
tained letterpress matter of Ices than 1,714 square inches,
was bound to find securities, and also to declare that he was
worth 4001. after all his debts were paid. At the present
moment no man in this country, according to law, was at
liberty to express an opinion upon paper, and publish the
same at a low price and in a small size, unless he was worth
4001. after all his debts were paid. These were the provi-
sions of the present law, but they were not enforced, ex-
cept against newspapers only. But if the law were not en-
I forced, could there be a better reason advanced for repealing
it ? Did he understand the Chancellor of the Exchequer
1 that he intended to repealoulyz portion of the law respect.
ing securities—that he was going to retain them as against
newspapers, and to abandon them as against other publi-
cations? If so, he considered it would be very difficult for
the right hon. gentleman to show- why that distinction
should be drawn. With regard to registration, which the
k right hon. gentleman the member for the University of
Oxford proposed to abolish, he would remark that an effec-
tnel registration would still exist, because the act of Geo.
111., which required that every printer should put his
name and place of abode to every printed paper, would re-
-main in force. Every printer was also required to keep a
register of his employer's, and Was bound to produce it on
an order being issued by a justice of the peace for that pur-
pose. So that, in point of fact, there would still be a full
registration of any printed paper, and means of tracing the
persons who were responsible for its publication, even if
the registration referred to by the bill of the right hon.
gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) were abolished, as that hon.
gentleman proposed. He for one should be extremely glad
to give his support to the resolutions proposed by the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer ' • at the sauce he should endeavour
to add to those parts of the bill which he thought to be defi-
cient, for he could not say that ho considered the measure
as a whole to be so good as the one proposed by the right
hon. gentleman the member for the University of Oxford.
Mr. JOHN M`GREGOR would not now express an
opinion on the comparative merits of tho measure intro-
duced by the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) and the
resolutions now proposed by the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer. He believed that, by imposing a fixed charge
on all printed paper transmitted through the post, the
revenue would not gain back altogether so much as it would
lose by the repeal of the present postal duty for such publi-
•cations. However, the whole question was one on which
the opinion of the country was greatly divided, as to whe-
ther the inconveniences of any legislation whatever might
not exceed the advantages that could accrue from it. The
great majority of the press were opposed to both the
proposed measures; while he believed the people of the
country generally would prefer the bill of the right hon.
gentleman the member for the University of Oxford
to that now submitted to the House by the Chancellor
of the Exchequer. There was great truth in what was said
by the right hon. gentleman the member for Portsmouth
(Sir F. Baring), that the house should take into considera-
tion what were the wants of the country, befere they con-
sented to throw away any considerable amount of revenue.
He looked with groat concern at the present state of the
revenue ; and it should have been ono of the first duties
of the Government to have submitted their budget to the
house, in order that it might be known what were the
means which the Government possessed to meet the largely
increased increased expenditure which the exigencies of
the war had imposed on the country. It was true that in
consequence of the changes in the Government it had not
been possible hitherto to bring forward any financial state-
ment, but ho did trust that in a very short period the
budget of the Government would be laid before the house
and the country for duo consideration.
Mr. WARNER thought that no time should be lost in
altering the existing mischievous state of the law, and for
providing increased facilities for the circulation of printed
matter.

at rest upon that score. For his own part, he looked upon
this as an exceedingly large -and important , measure con-
fined in a small bill; and heewas satisfied that the repeal
of the newspaper stamp would in four or five years have
produced more effect upon the mozal and intellectual cha-
racter of the people than all the public sums which had of
late "years been voted for educational purposes.
Mr. PAOKE said the measure would operate as a tax on
readers in small towns and villages, and this was the ground
on which he believed the loca press had a great objec-
tion to it. He should not oppose the resolutions as they
stood, but reserve himself for the measure when it came
before the house.

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that amongst the evil con-
sequences of the war would be the necessity of increased
taxation. It was clear that if they took 200,00 W. off news-
papers, that amount must be put on Lemething else, and it
would be well to know what that something should be
before this was done. If the law could not be executed,
and the law officers of the Crown were placed in a false
position, this was a good reason for facing the difficulty
and correcting it in a proper way ; but he wanted to know
why 500,0001. could not be raised from publications ap-
pealing at intervals of a month ? He held that this would
bo the sensible and wise course in the present difficulties
of the country.

Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE supported the measure as
called for by a due regard to the educational wants of the
people, and by justice to all parties.
After a few words in explanation from Mr. BENTINCK,
The resolution was agreed to, as was also the third.
Mr. GIBSON inquired when they would have the bill
before them.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
resolutions would be reported to-morrow (this day), and
the bill would be introduced on Thursday.
SUPPLY.—THE UNFUNDED DEBT.
The order of the day having been moved for going into
committee of supply,

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY called the attention of the house
to the state and amount of the unfunded debt for the year
1855-6, which stood at a much higher figure than he thought
this house was aware of-17,183,000/. He most strongly
protested against the conversion of Exchequer-bills into
funded debt, as had been done in the months of Juno and
October last. In consequence of the resolution moved by
' the late Chancellor of the Exchequer on the 6th of March,
1854, a sum of 1,750,0001. Exchequer-bills had been unduly
' converted into funded debt, a course which he regarded as
entirely without precedent. He hoped they would receive a
clear explanation of the transactions from some person con-
nected with the Government.
Mr. J. L. RICARDO said he believed that there was some
discrepancy between the principle and practice of the right
hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone). The amount authorised to
be raised in 1855 was 17,740,0001., and in 1854 it was
16,240,0001. This latter sum was subject to a deduction of
591,1001. on account of Exchequer-bonds; and, therefore, the
amount which it was expected would be renewed this year
was 15,433,000/. But there was an addition of 1,750,0001.,
which, they wore told by the right hon, gentleman, had been
raised by special bills for the purpose of meeting the expenses
which would be incurred before the increased taxation im-
posed by the budget of 1854 would come into operation, and
that these bills would be subsequently paid off. The right
hon. gentleman stated this on the 6th of March, and he re-
peated his statement on the 23d of May. He (Mr. J. L. Ri-
cardo) could only say that the return which has been pre-
sented on this subject was calculated to mislead the house.
From the statements which had been made, no person could
infer that it had been the intention of the right hoe. gentle-
man to have added to the permanent unfunded debt of the
country. He did not think that that was the moment for
discussing the abstract question whether it was advisable to
carry on the war by means of taxation or of a loan ? He was
certainly not ono of those who objected to taxation because it
wattle render the war unpopular, He wanted to render the
-war unpopular. He should be very glad if it were made so.
But, at the same time, he believed that the attempt which
was made last year (a very praiseworthy attempt, he believed)
to carry on the war by taxation was an utter, irretrievable,
and unmixed failure, (Hear, hear.) And that ho believed was
plain from the operations of last year. As that was the case,
would it not be better for the Government to admit, in a manly
and straightforward manner, that it was a failure ? He be-
lieved that the result of the financial operations of last
yew was the addition to the permanent debt of the country
of 1,750,000/. He believed that the right hon. gentleman
could clearly explain how the failure of his plan had taken
place, and that the right hon. gentleman would be the
last man to resort to any subterfuge to conceal anything of
that sort. He (Mr. Ricardo) recollected the open and manly
way in which the right hon. gentleman avowed the abortion,
as ho was pleased to call it, of the conversion of the South
Sea Annuities. He thought that the hon. baronet was en-
titled to the thanks of the house for having called attention
to the subject.

edly, so far as the article that is most stacilycalled "news"
is concerned,--,•for instance, the communication of facts,
which may generally be comprised within a very brief
space, and the language, the outward shape and form of
which can be varied almost at will—l do not know how

you are to introduce any further provisions than the law
at present contains ; but I have understood from some
persons who ought to be well informed on the subject
that the great anxiety of those who think this question
worth consideration in the press as it stands is not so much
directed to the protection of their " news," strictly so
called, which in point of fact it would be very difficult to
protect, as to the protection of what may more fairly be
called their literary compositions—(hear)—for example,
the leading articles in their newspapers, and, especially as

regards the London press, the communications of their
foreign correspondents. Now I, for one, am very anxious
that, either in the plan of my right hon. friend or in some

other effective form, this question should be brought to a
settlement. I think what my right hon. friend has stated
to-night must suffice to convince the house that the ques-
tion now before them is not whether or not you will have
a cheap press. You have got your cheap press at this mo-
ment. My right hon. friend has told us of one single pub-
lication in London which now issues some 420,000 copies a
. .

week, and of another which prints at the rate of 240,b00 a
week. Here, then, are 13:3,000,000 copies of two publica-
tions alone printed annually in this metropolis. How many
more similar publications there may b 3 we have no means
of knowing, but I apprehend thatthis statement i 3 far from

representing the actual number. You have then your cheap
press established in the country. If it does not exist through-
out the country it is certainly established in the great centres

of the population, and above all in London ; and if we aro
to speak of inundation, London is already inundated by
these weekly prints. By the present frame and structure
of your laws you prevent the insertion in these publica-
tions of what may be considered discussions upon public
events, or the statement of public news; and the question
for the house to decide is, not whether it is expedient to

Mr. WILSON utterly denied that the financial plan, pro-
pounded by the right hon. gentleman the member for Oxford
last year, had irretrievably added 1,750,000/. to the funded
debt ; and could prove that, on the contrary, the whole of
the expenditure of the country, to the present moment, had
been paid out of the taxation of the country. At the com-
mencement of, the year 1853, when Lord Aberdeen's Govern-
ment went into office, the amount of Exchequer-bills was
17,742,0001.; and at the commencement of the present year
it was 17,183,0001., being a reduction of 559,000/. But it
might be said that, in the meantime, some Exchequer-bills
had been converted into funded debt. Well, the funded debt
of the country, when Lord Aberdeen's Government came into
office, was 761,622,0001., whilst it was this year only
751,839,0001. ; showing, therefore, a reduction in tho na-
tional debt of 9,783,0001., and, making a reduction in respect
wo f
as the 9, Exchequer-bonds2oo ,00u
i.lessti iau iistswu eads
~ltatsht
commencea t he
inn_a4iiot noalf
Idse.sb3t.

have a cheap press or to prohibit a cheap press, but rather,
when you have got a cheap press, whether you will give to
the promoters of that cheap press the means of providing
the people with intelligence of the events in which we are
all so deeply interested, with intelligence relative to the

working Of Our institutions and the passing of our laws, or
whether you will drive them to what is petty and paltry,
to cramming their columns with novels and romances—
whether you will preclude them from affording that infor-
mation which really forms the worthiest material for con-
sideration and reflection, or whether you will allow of a
fair competition between public news, as we understand

Mr. BENTINCK stated that he could trace a very strong
resemblance between the resolutions now proposed and
those which were originally introduced by the right bon.
gentleman the late Chancellor of the Exchequer. With
regard to the measure before the house, perhaps it was
premature to offer an opinion, but there was one point
touched upon by the right hon. gentleman the member for
Manchester which he was anxious to refer to. The right
hon. gentleman seemed to think that the loss to the
revenue which the measure would create would be made up
by the now description of publications, to be published in
consequence of the fresh arrangement ; but these new pub-
lications would be chiefly confined to Efferent localities,
and would not require the assistance of the Post-office. He
could not help feeling that the change now proposed would
lower the character of the press, unless some precautions
were taken against intemperate or licentious publications,
issued to serve the purposes of party, or to further the ends
of private malice.
Mr. KIRK had received communications from the edi-
tors and proprietors of newspapers of all shades of politics,
on the subject of the proposed change in the law, which,
he could assure the Government, they desired should re-
main xnaltered.

,t, and those inferior materials to Which it is the ten,

dency and effect of the present law to confine the con-

ducCers of these publicatiOus. -Determined as I am to do.
all in my power completely to sat free the press—whether
it be a cheap or a dear one—for the handling of public
events and news of all (kinds, and to apply to this sub-
ject those principles of free commerce which have been
extended with such efficacy to the general mercantile
transactions of the country, yet, I fully admit that,
so far -as literary compositions are concerned, we now
find them in our existing press of a high standard and
of very great value, and that the principle of pro-
tection to those compositions is a perfectly fair and just
one. lam not prepared to say, and indeed it would require
one more skilled iu the law, and better acquainted with
the whole facts of the case and the feelings and interests of
the partiei concerned than I am, to point out in what form
this could best be done. Ido not venture to prejudge this

When his right hon. friend the late Chancellor of the Excite-

quer presented Lis first budget on the 6th of. March last

year war was not declared, aiid he did not, therefore, pre-
sent a war budget; but as there was a strong probability
that war would be declared, his right hon. friend stated
that he might be obliged to present another budget before
the end of the session. War was declared, and, on the Bth
of May, his right hon. friend showed that the expenditure of
the country would exceed its income by 6,850,0001., and he
proposed to meet that deficiency by the issue of Exchequer-
°bonds and Exchequer-bills, the repayment of which was to
be secured out of the growing taxation of the country. But
a part of that taxation could not bo received until the pre-
sent year. The creation of those Exchequer-bills and bonds
were no addition to the funded debt of the country. Some
of them were made payable in two, others in four, and the
remainder in six years. It could not be said, therefore, that
the amounts secured by them had been edited to the perma-
nent debt of the country. The house had already passed
votes amounting to 3,400,0001. in aid of the excess of the ex-
penditure over the income of the year. The additional sup-
plies had been granted without an exception in ready money,
a thing not usual in any former war. Every demand upon
the Government had been paid from day to day as it became
due. Not a single payment had been delayed one day longer
than it would have been in time of peace. There was nothing
behind which could ever come against them as a future
charge, a great advantage over all former periods of war. The
Government had taken care that, when there was an extra-
'ordinary expenditure for the purposes of the war, it should
be regulated in such a manner as not to afford the basis for a
permanent expenditure. If the expenditure was large it could
not be difficult to account for it. The supply service itself
up to the 17th of this month amounted to 9,575,000/. But
there were resources to meet that expenditure. On the sth
of April there would be duo in uncollected taxes—not of the
ordinary taxes, but of the additional ones raised for the pur-
pose of the war—no less a sum than 5,020,000/. The income
tax alone amounted to 3,320,0001., and the malt tax to
1,800,000/. No doubt they had had aid from Exchequer-bills
and Exchequer-bonds to the amount of 7,125,0001., but then'
there were due, as he had already explained, 5,020,0001. ster-
ling, showing a deficiency of not mere than 2,105,0001., or
thereabouts, whereas, on the sth of April, 1854, there was a
deficiency of upwards of five millions. The hon. member for
Evesham (Sir H. Willoughby) had made a grievous complaint
because of the manner in which Government proposed to deal
with the savings-banks moneys, but if the Government
were not to be allowed to use those moneys for the general
advantage of the State, they ought at once to give up
the custody of them. Government undertook a great re-
sponsibility, and incurred much expense in regard to those
moneys, and if they were not to exercise a wide discretion
as to the mode in which they should conduct those funds,
the sooner they gave up the management of them the better.
The loss in annual interest during the last ton years, as re-
presenting the difference between the interest paid by the
community on the savings banks' moneys, and the interest
which they had to pay to those who lodged those moneys,
was not less then 431,6601. ; and if to this calculation were
added the friendly societies also, the amount would be
660,0001. Government bought ie savings back money at
97i and sold oat at 87* during the last 10 years. He re-
peated, that if no use were to be made of funds which were
such a source of expense and responsibility, the sooner they
got rid of the whole system the better.
Mr. GLADSTONE explained that when he asked autho-
rity last year for issuing those Exchequer-bills, he stated that
they should be redeemed out of the first moiety of the income-
tax, for which he had also applied ; but he also stated, most
particularly, that this undertaking was only to embrace as
much of the year as terminated on the 6th of Marcli. On
the Sth of May lie made the Budget statement for the whole
year, and explained that, as the whole war expenses would
have to be met, and not the mere cost of transport of an ex-
pedition to the East, he should want both the double income
tax and the Exchequer-bills. (Hear, hear.) The hon. ba-
ronet said that he ought in May last to have stated that it
was his intention this year to renew the Exchequer-bills, but
he would have been guilty of the grossest folly if he had done
any such thing. It was perfectly impossible for him at that
time to come to any determination on the subject. Tile
honourable baronet spoke of unforeseen expenditure as
foreseen and determined upon, aid said it should have
been provided for ; he also treated that as certain which
was uncertain, and assumed that would take place which
only might take place. The honourable member fur
Stoke (Mr. Ricardo) had spoken of his financial plans as
an utter, irretrievable, and unmixed failure ; but he had
advanced no single reason or fact in proof of such an asser-
tion.
He was perfectly aware that all attempts to forecast
the expenditure of a war were necessarily in a great degree
fatal, but he never pretended to lay before the house any es-
timate of the war expenditure of the same reliable nature as.
the estimates which were presented during peace. After
having submitted the estimates of the different departments
he asked the house for a veto of credit, and the house gave
him a large additional amount in case those estimates should
be exceeded. Though the war had been carried on with the
greatest activity, and though there had been the extra cost of
a winter campaign, yet the provision made by the forethought
of the house had been nearly equal to the amount of expen-
diture. With respect to the question of the public debt,
nothing could be more easy than to give the house a statement
of that debt at the time he accepted and the time he quitted
office. He found that in January, 1855, the public debt was
about 2,000,0001. less than iu January, 1853, when he ac-
cepted office ; but then, in the course of 1554, there was an
excess of 9,000,0001. of expenditure connected with theimme-
diate purposes of the war, a very insignificant portion ol
which was defrayed out of the proceeds of the new
of last taxes.
The hon. member for Stoke, iu describing the effort
taxes of the year as an utter, irretrievable,
year to make provision for the war expenaditund urenmmitxteodff,thile-
u„ereed,
iinmgpfurglo im
mpugned then
individual—not discretion not m pro proposal porfol-
u theel
mereelleylyofotthea resolution
house, challenged by a vote up
Government—but the discretionenoaf
division
aivfinagl
idveeenisaioftneroinf
expressing,tree
ffotii•lee,
yearthe dsheolitearabete v ew
o f
pa Parliament,, considerationm e nt: d
athat the expenditure
liqui-
dated out of the taxation of the country. If the expenses of
the
ey war bad been confined to the estimates presented last year,
wouldt have had 4,000,0001. of debt, contracted by anti-
cipation, and 5,000,0001. of revenue to come in to liquidate it,
so that there would have been an actual surplus of 1,000,0001.
over and above the whole expenditure of the war. But the
expenditure had gone beyond these bounds. If, instead of.
paying the expenses of the year by means of taxes, they
had taken a loan to the same amount, he apprehended they
would have been equally open to the risk of the expenditure
going beyond the proper bounds. His own impression was,
that money raised by taxes went as far as money raised by
loans, and eves went a little further, because the house was
disposed to keep a sharper look out after the expenditure of
public money raised by taxes than it did of money raised by
loans. (Hear, hear.) He had no wish to entrap the house
into the admission of :my principle which would preclude the

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured the
right hon. baronet the member for Portsmouth, that be had
fully considered the financial consequences involved in this
question; and he had no doubt his predecessor had done the
same; but this was not purely a fiscal measure. It arose out
of the existing state of the law respecting the newspaper
stamp duty. In consequence of the indulgence extended to
a certain class of newspapers, the greatest difficulty existed
in the administration of the law, and the Board of Inland
Revenue were so perplexed by the different publications set
up in defiance of the law owinglo its anomalous state, that
there had been no end to litigation, correspondence, and
even debates in Parliament about it. To give the com-
mittee an example of this perplexing difficulty, be would
refer to the case of a newspaper called the Commercial
Journal and Family Herald, a publication of a lite-
rary character, recently established in Dublin, but
it did not wholly exclude matters of intelligence. A pro-
secution was instituted against it in the Court of Ex-
chequer in Ireland, but the jury returned a verdict against
the Crown, and although the Irish Attorney-General was
clearly of opinion that the case came within the meaning
of the Act of Parliament, ho yet would not advise a second
prosecution on account of the difficulty of obtaining a ver-
dict in such cases. In like manner, the learned Attorney-
General for England would on a future occasion, be pre-
pared to show the difficulties that surrounded the execu-
tion of the existing law, and if the house then determined
upon continuing the stamp duty, he hoped it would at the
same time be prepared to pass a declaratory act, in order
that the Government might vindicate the majesty of the
law in the case of every publication that came within the
legal definition of a newspaper. This, then, was not a
simple question of whether they should retriu or give up
some 200,0001. a year, bat whether the Government should
be empowered to enter into a crusade against a large body
of newspaper proprietors; and since the only feeling which
influenced the Government in bringing this measure for-
ward was to avoid the latter alternative, it was for the
house to decide whether they were right or wrong.
Mr. GLADSTONE said that, as the chief part of the
financial responsibility of this measure rested upon him-
self, he wished to say a few words in reply to what had
fallen from the right honourable baronet the member for
Portsmouth. It was pointed out to him while in office
that the present law was not only theoretically absurd, but
its administration was so surrounded with practical diffi-
culties that the Board of Inland Revenue was sot at abso-
lute defiance. Now ho could not allow the law to remain
in that discreditable state without making an effort to re-
medy the evil. Neither the present nor the late Govern-
ment wore the only parties responsible for the introduc-
tion of this measure, because the house itself was partly
responsible for it. Last year the house, not at the sug-
gestion of the Government, but rather against its wish and
inclination, and at a tune when there was a full know-
ledge ou both sides of the house of the warand its demands,
passed a resolution to the effect that the law relating to
newspapers was imperfectly defined and partially enforced.
Therefora it became the duty of the Government to con-
sider what alteration should be made in the law, and he
wished now to ask the right hon. baronet the member for
Portsmouth, whether he was able to suggest or recommend
any mode of altering the law, differing in principle from
that at present under discussion, or the one ho had the
honour to propose a few weeks ago. If an abjection was
to be taken to the measure us:on fiscal and not political
grounds, he hoped those who urged it would not shrink
from declaring their opinion as to any other course which
Government ought to have pursued in order to give effect
to the resolution which the house came to last year.
Mr. LAING would most cordially assent to the repeal of
this tax if we were not at war, and there was a surplusinthe
Exchequer, but looking at the existing state of public affairs,
it was of the highest importance that the house should not
hastily surrender any source of taxation. With regard,
therefore, to the resolution that was passed last year, he
was perfectly willing to bear his fair share of the respon-
sibility that attached to it, or that might attach to its sus-
pension, though ho must remind the right hon. gentleman
the member for the University of Oxford, that the respon-
sibility of passing that resolution did not entirely rest with
the house, because it bad been stated that the amount of
taxation which had been proposed would be amply suffi-
cient to meet all demands upon the country.
Mr. BRIGHT thought the hon. gentleman who had just
set down was contending with a difficulty that really did
not exist. The resolution which the house passed last ses-
sion was passed subsequently to the commencement of the
war ; but, setting that consideration aside, he could not
understand why there should be so much hesitation about
this trifling 200,0001., at a time when the house seemed
indisposed to fix any limit to the taxation of the country,
and eagerly passed votes calculated in millions. But the
fact was, this was not a question of 200,000/., for it was
impossible to say what the loss to the reveue would be. So
long as the paper duty remained it might be made up in
that way, but at all events, if the new postal arrangement
with regard to books were adopted, there probably would
be no deficiency at all. But this was not a question cf
200,0001., it was a far higher question—it was the question
of whether the resolution passed last session should be ad-
hered to or not. There wasyeta second question,and that was,
whether thelawslmuldbeallowed to remain in such a state as
to be easilyset at &Wee. Beth the present and theliste Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, who must have deeply considered
the question, had coin° to the conclusion that it was totally
impossible to carry out the law, and therefore tho best
course to pursue wise to set the press free. With regard to
the question of piracy, he had no objection to any legislation
upon that subject, provided it could be framed in an equit-
able manner; ho
believed, however, that it was unneces-
ay, s r and would be of no use. As for the bill itself, hhoped it would be brought in without delay, to see if the
there were reds of house would would pawl it,
because
its
sons who were within„iting issue, and whose operations must
be suspended in the meantime. Something had been said
about the press being opposed to the repeal of the newspa-
persiti stamp; but he could discover whorehore the opp,le
came from. Certainly a large proportion of the provincial
press, including the -Leeds
Mercury and the Manchester
Guardian, wore favourable to it, while, if ho mistook not,
the Times last year wrote directly in favour of its repeal.
So far, then, from such a measure injuring the press or
membersde-
set th • minds
their mu
I moralising the people, boa. might

question, bat I would venture to express a Hope that, in
endeavouring to carry out the principle of the freedom of
the press, my right hon. friend will lot be indisposed to
take into his favourable consideration any reasonable pro-

position which may be made to him for the improvenient
of the law of copyright, in order that we may not run any
risk of breaking down that system under which the highest
talent in the country is applied largely and advantageously
devoted to supplying the public with intelligence and to
the discuvion of that intelligence. I must confess that I
should regal(' the destruction of that system as a public
misfortune—a misfortune which lam the less disposed to
incur, because I do not look upon it as a natural or neces-
sary consequence of the important measure of emancipation
which is now contemplated by her Majesty's Government.
Of counsel do not offer any opposition to these resolutions.
When the bill of the right hon. gentleman comes before us
we shall have an opportunity of discussing it, and I enter-
tain a most confident hope that it will receive a candid and
favourable reception at the hands of the house.
Sir F.BA.RING—I am not about to enter into the discus-
sion of the motion itself now before the house, but there is
one part of the subject which I think the Chancellor of the
Exchequer dealt with rather unsatisfactorily, and. which
the late Chancellor of the Exchequer touched on still more
lightly—l mean that part having reference to our financial
operations. (Hoar, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exche-
quer stated with perfect candour that he apprehended that
at least 200,0001. will be the loss on the measure proposed.
Now, I do not pretend myself to draw an estimate dif-
ferent from my right hon. friend, but I would remind him
that Mr. Rowland Hill, is that committee from whose
labours ho has derived the great part of his observations,
stated—if my recollection servos me correctly—that the
utmost he thought would be obtained by the adoption of a
measure similar to that of the right hon. gentlemen would
be 130,000/. (Hear.) Mr. lie Hill thought that that would
be the meacintunt, but there has been some increase of in-
coino since, and I apprehend that you may count on the
loss of about a quarter of a million of revenue in adopting
the proposed arrangement. (Hear.) The late Chancellor
of the Exchequer said that he thought that by a cheap
mode of carrying books you might obtain an alditional sum
of money ; but I am afraid that our finances are in such a
state that you must not neglect any mode of raising money ;
and you will have before long to consider not only whether
you cannot raise money by a cheap mode of carrying books,
but by many other modes also which may be less agreeable
to the house and the country. ( Hear, hear.) The present
Chancellor of the Exchequer, though not responsible for
bringing forward the project at the present moment, yet,
following the example of the late Chancellor of the Exche-
quer,has madethispropolsalhvaatao vreerpyjautnofidtly known—andtime. (Gene-
ral
cries of “ Hear.")
perhaps I may sometimes have beeu guilty myself of
making the statement I am about to describe—that when
hon. gentlemen ou different sides of the house have pro-
posed arrangements entailing a loss of revenue, the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer for the time being has risen and
advised them, in reference to motions affecting the re-
venue, to wait until the financial statement should be
made, and then they would know what bum of money
there might be to dispose of, then a full and comprehen-
sive view could be taken of the taxation of the country,
and then they would know how to apply any sum of pub-
lic money they might have to spare in the manner the most
advantageous fur the public good. (Hear.) Certainly,
the time to make such proposals is when you are sure that
you have some surplus.; but aro you pretty sure at the
present moment that you have a surplus? (Hear.) The
i
Chancellor of the Exchequer has fairly told you, that ft uu
pass this measure he must of necessity propose some other
taxation to compensate for the sum it is now proposed
should be lost. Well, then, let us know what is the taxa-
tion which the right hon. gentleman will propose in lieu.
(Cheers.) Wo all know, and no ono better than the Chan-
caller of the Exchequer, that every tax is an evil in itself,
and nothing in the world is so easy as to make a case
against any tax you please if you consider it by itself.
But you ought to consider it in rolhaiedlnurf egletfiyaririnnenmeoalleg,
ttnne
acidnetmafhorayowaachnufasi
iddesnect
Chancellor
latehi compari-
sonil:eloinalrmlrtyafietthouttEmefsirosotpiurhttvnahhgei
mino-
rity with other modes of raising money ; and, though there
can be. no objection to allow the right hon. gentleman to
bring in his bill and lay his plan fairly' before the house,
yet we ought not to proceed to Vote away a quarter of
a million of public money until we have before us the
whole state of the finances of the country, and are
the .eby able to take a full and comprehensive view of the
s
in
E
uiti
onxttt
lydodechoeotemcfeho
fotq7be.
one,
rtelohei
itpifhastai (Hear.)aohlrfiseeenvc proposes,
eoepc
faaehooh
serenel riseptcilhfaoelurs statement,ep afterows,
ohshlcotbilpi will
or
fi
n
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. GIBSON—I think that the right hon. gentleman
pro-
perwho
footing.has last
Thisspoken s
nothas
properlynplacedot
a fiscalthis mgantoteetri
question,
it does involve revenue considerations; but, as we are to bo
told that this country is unable to meddle with a subject
which iucidentaly involves 200,000/, of public revenue,
when it is necessary to do so in order to avoid a vexatious
system of persecutions and difficulties of the most serious
character to the press of this country ? I quite agree with
the right hon. gentleman, that we must be careful in times
like these in not abandoning sources of revenue ; but I
cannot see that we should take such an alarming view of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer's proposition as to reject
it on revenue grounds alone. I am sorry that the present
Chancellor of the Exchequer has left out of his plan that
portion of the late Chaueellor of the Exchequer's scheme
which would have compensated for the loss of revenue
occasioned by the removal of the newspaper stamp,
because, while on the one hand, the late Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer gave up the newspaper
stamp, be on the other, by admitting for the first
time all panted matter to be carried by the Post-office
at the rate of ld. for four ounces, opened a new source of
revenue which, giving great convenience to the public,
would also have compensated, to some extent, the loss in-
curred by the alteration of the newspaper stamp laws. It
is difficult to speculate to what amount this compensation
- would have reached ; but as the whole loss of revenue was