The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1816-05-16 00:00:00

CONTRIBUTIONS FROM FRANCE.

Sir JAME* NI AelltltlTo6ll roar to bring before the
Home u subject whit h was entitled to the most be-
llow consideration, relative to the sums of money
obtained by the British Government from that of
Prance. He was desirous to have it determined
whether those sums, or any to a greeter amount,
placed under similar circumstances, should lw con-
sidered AS droll* of the Crown, and he applied by
the Sovereign to defray his own private expenses ?
Whether. at the end of every successful war, the
King of Great Britain might open this new source
of revenue, and appropriate indefinite aunts of inn-
siey, innependeut of tier control of Parliament ?
Could any man then deny, that the question was
rase litterbug the vitals of the constitution, inas-
much n' that in whatever degree the power or inde-
Iwildence of the Crown is increased, so far is the au-
thority of Parliament diminished, and the bulwark
of lour lilwrber fallen to the ground. No one could
.lunlit time power of Parliament to question such an
exercise of authority, on its first appearance in the
history of our laws and Constitution. lie depre-
cated the introduction of legal subtleties mid legal
qc.t,ations on such a subject; and, instead of heel-
illy it With such a burden, he would Want the
/louse not to he misled by their upprarunce, fur
they wcuild lw improperly brought before such an
atiseinbly, whose proviece it was to regulate tlw
Courts of Law, and to reduce their eccentricities
to the plainer standard of common venison. Ile
hoped. theiefore, that he should not be told by
law) CM, that unless he could 'thew some siolutitto
of a piirtirular law, he could not. substantiate bit
clew ; hut he contended thud 11w word mistitii-
ti I, however indefinite the ideas ion fiequelitly
ettaelwd tie it, bore as distinct a signification as the
word awl as an mines might be deemed
illegal which violated the spirit, without in-
fringing the direct letter of the law, so may it
Le uswouelitutional, if it militated against
the gesieral spirit of those laws and priiseivlett,
• lbose combined operation formed what was com-
monly called the Comititution. Ile declared his in-
tention of being perfectly dispussionate throughout;
lie would not eburge the present \ lieisters with nos
design to miryr the r otettuottoo, hot he would • o-
deuviiiir to go iril against eillehho;„ al.r future t
vernment in thaw the prewat 'raw:genial silo a pic-
a:relent. I hiving ilia* far twriiiittcol hiemi t II to
enter into preliminary observations be should lay
before. the [louse the nature of these tiaviiitutts
from Fruited to which he untitled. Ily the
Definitive Tame) of Piece. tlw King of France
etigeged to pay and support the army of
occupation. In consequence of that eligT4riiirilt.
the \Moister' came to the Howse, and said, thut
they would not submit any vote respecting the !my
of that twiny. Never Was a Minister guilty el ii
more unadvised proceeding than in 6114 attempt mg
to withdraw the army from the control of loa-
men% The constitution haul min bled (..,rialol
ionise; restraints against the tremendous power nf
the Fverutive, and one, the most islets!, us the
twist 0E6..0, was ilw power vested in tilt,
gnu 1111 l g inoory for the ti
stand-
i:ag army. This rlllerk.e.taltlislietl :it the elorions
I:titillation, it was iteriously proposed by !thin:arts
to iihrot..,..tte, and 50 fur ellCrt a couister-revolution,
wad submit right to night. 'Flint matter was, how.
• er, corrected; fur Nliiiititers oripleatly
v.. tt II o:e.ttion or ho. Hon. nicittl (Mr. Wyiii(,
that the fur the ariti,y of uctuvitiou should

Le voted. Whether that intent arose Ituten Mt
motives dt• not. be should nut then .eitornine, al-
though some thenliblitiMet connected with it woe-
oymptoms that they wen mat eo. The secoad pity-
meet from France was designated as au indemnity
to this country for all the sacrifiers she had made,
arc) the dodgers she had encomarred, laud was re-
pea sented in the protocol as amoipitiug at lewd • to
4,000.0001. Named, however, of tear obta. ' g
such a sum, it appeared that tley charge. of the
army of observation, in the three first 'meta of their
manicure on the frontier, of Fromm, would flared
the sums to he paid during the time, arid that it
depended solely on the contingency of our enjoying
peeve for live years, that at the expiration or the
whole period we should Morrill a sum not exceed-
ing 500,0001.—(Hear, hear.)--The neat great
squestiou for the coesideration of the Douse was,
an rirticle to the Convention for giving the sum of
1,400,0001. to the British I:menet:eta, to be given
as a donative to the British mid Russian troops.
Tin. might be taken either of two ways--either the
motley was paid to the British Govereimeitt, es
trustees, on an implied engagement !het it should
be &debated to time army—or. that it rested with
theGovenenent not to share it among the army,
but apply it to any other general purpose. He he.
lieved it was for the former ; sod particularly as to
the cousideratinis for the grant. the capture of
Pons was specified, which chewed that the money
was given to the army by way of ransom for the
city. In Idle point of view, the House had to con-
template a novelty iii this country; for here was a
donative from a foreign Prince to an English
army, forming a counection of attachment, a de-
pendence, a bond of gretitude front a British army
to a foreign King! .-(Hear, hear.)-If, on the
contrary, it be asserted, that the Crown might die.
pure or the mouey.to other purposes, it must be
emisideved as a direct dottative from the King of
Great Britain to his army, without the interference
of Parliament. lie hoped that im one would so
far misiondenutand him, as to suppose hitu hostile
to grantiug a reward to the army for their great
and signal serviette. Ile was as well aware of their
merit, and as willing to reward it, as another—he
oily cositended, that their reward should come from '
the gratitude of their country to the army, awl taut
' as a laterite' hem a Monasch to his soldier's.—
lir now came to the main question, which was, '
whether t I we. smug, se granted by enliven i sou, should
be considered as droits of the Crown, maul &sloe-
'able by the Sovereign to his private mute, for the
increase of his enjoyments, the foreishing of levees
which are not Ropil Palaces, and for tourist's-1i of
niunificence. Ile was ever unwilling to coverlet
the metes of tlw Sovereign'a eirjoyoents ; if be had
any fault respecting that, it was ratite- the coterie'',
for belted ibu lersitatioe in saying, that, the emits a
Ow peiliale bring first conedered, the ••A;loyinenr,
rat the Prince and the means of lloyal muudimice
should us-err hw cuetracted—should even Jae Ili-
creased if uweemary; loot it should he by the vote of
the Douse, anal not elrudestinel, casually, or at
the exeenee of the just rights and privileges of
I'arlianient.—(ileat.)-7:o one could doubt that
tiote sums of mini ey weir cl • eel us droits of the
Crown, after haying lieu el the distinct declaration
or the Chancellor of the Escheeuer on the sub-
ject, who, if in. were then absent, he WOlllll say
possessed seffieieest tiersonal authority to give the
claim considerable aright from his own assertioue
mid his personal claim to respect ; and who, al-
though prettent, he might be all Owed to say, must
have great importance attached to his declaration of
a right. room his official situation, and front his
being a lawyer of considerable research and expe-
rience. Front this consideration hr should feel ex-
tremely desirous to hear the Right Honourable
Gesitlemari produce his grounds amid authority for
declaring the Crown 'tweeted with the power of
exercising an act of ownership over sums thus ac-
quired, as NA tuderimity to the country for all its
sufferings Burl dangers. The act of ownership, to
which lie more purtiruhirly referred, was the appro-
priation, by a letter f the Lords of the Treasury
to the herd of the Cm 1111 l issariat, or 250,000 frames,
part of which was given us the subscription of the
Prince Regent, towards erecting a monument to
Cardimil de York, and the rest for defraying the ex-
peuster of tramporting the works of art belouging to
the Pei re from Frueee nits, Italy. "Ilie latter of these
might he esteemed a public service, but be could
dreiga,ate the former as 'staling better than an ant-
bieimus measure, carting an honour over suit ill.
Willdb WllOlll eumunlicence could no longer le exer-
cised, an ostentatious display of attention dear aii
huts, as dem•rwirol from a royal family which, had
deservedly ceased to lie royal, and throwing tier
:lain oEn:hellion oil the Revolution, sod our Lima—
teas alio %chit veil it. 'this was a serious question,
as a targeted the character of that Revolution, to 4411
they who venerated their ancestor.. The sub-
scription to the inoilusiirsit iir Cardinal de 'York
was perieetly a private grant to II private purpose,
and as the amount or the slim did tent street
the plea:title, that appropriation was, its fact,
chat ll i ll g au ownership in the entire, apnea
which he rose to express his protest. until
lie should be convinced of his error lay died
strength of opposite arguments, and a decision of
the noose. The proof of the right depended alto-
gether with those who claimed it, has thee-chum reml
on the tumbler ground, turd would not depart from
it, until shuken by the arguments of the Noble
Loud and the Kight Mao. Gentleman. The greet
pruiciple of our Constitution wax the dependence of
the Clown on Parliament for supplies; if it were
asserted that the Crocus might receive any by treaty
from fort igii Powers. it must also lw acknowledged
that the iwicions amid trruties or Charles ii. with
Louie X IN'. were perfectly justifiable. It might
indeed be said, that his pensions were taken tor a
ball purpose, but the present money was for a
good one, and that the respoesibility of Ministers
%%a. GlWllyll sufficient to larnteet the eoutitry from
dangerous enii.eiluetices. This defence he allowed,
bait %%1w can't' secure its extent to guard against
et,ry 'amble:eta evil, or prevent a repetition of the
eery crimes that had been already perpetruted?
With respect to dime iwnoions or Charles the Ind.
Uwe. apptered lately the evidence of une of the
principal agents in the whole transactions—it was
that of James the 11(1. then Duke of York, whose
history was lately published. In that he mention-
ed, that the Duchess or Portsmouth induced
1 Charles to make her a grant of 10,000/. nut of the
French pension, '' which was the King's only de-
fence against the tyranny of Parletineut.".mm" Non

meets lie sera.," Continued Sir Jamerhiactintoslit
these are not my ssettimetits, they are those of
the Duke of York, who designates the siecersity of
looking to the [louse of Coalitions, as the only
source for supplying the King's necessities, es the
tyranny of Porliament."—/ Hear. bear.)—But
this, he observed, was not all; the power claimed
by the Crown of apprmiriatiog sums obtained by
treaty from foreign State* would be an induce-
ment to bad Ministers to advise the King for the
worst purposes; so that in future negotiations the
subject of consideration would not he the valte
ola fortress or an island, as it insured the safety
of our other possessions. but according to the sum
our Ministers could obtain for them. There wooed
bur half a million for Guadeloupe—half a million
for Martinique—and so on. Nor let the House
conceive such an occurrence as merely chimericarb
• .

for Charles I I. thus disposed of Dunkirk ; noel trite 1
near not one King of England act as smother King
of becloud has meted ?—(Hear, hear.)—The e Inds
too of the Convention were remarkable—for there
it was rimed dint the indemnity to the Allies could
he neither wholly pectimiery, nor wholly territorial,
for either might exasperate the French nation.—
The iodemuity was therefore toms ded of loath,
and the more money was given, the less was the
territory. The money was theta to be cmsidereil
se the purchase of territory ; and thus was repeat-
ed, though in a less direct manner, the very con-
duct for which Cluirlee was censured, iu bee-
ismg sold Dunkirk, and which became one of
the in-ticks of impeachment against Lord Cla-
rendon for haring advised it. But this indem-
uity, he repeated, should never be at the
disponi of the Sovereign. It was a compensation
to the country for its sacrifices, and which could
net be received by the Suvereigu but es the steward
of the public. All the eloquent tongues and bens
of Europe have been celebratiog the exertions of
Great Britein iii the arduous struggle in winch she
was engaged, und in the dangerous crisis from which
he hoped she lied escaped. That subject was far
above hint to attempt, particularly us it had become
so hackneyed mid so trivial ; but surely it would be
allowed line to say, that those who contributed so
aitamiy years to time Income Tax. should enjoy every
alleviat 1111 l that the chances of war could funnel'.
—(Near, hear, hear.)—lle might hear stop,
leaving it for those on the opposite side to
lariug authorities to substantiate their claim, but '
would mmilvance a step farther, and quote audio- '
ritim to discomatenance it. In so doing hr should
confine himself to the period since the Revolution,
for it was since that event that the OOPS voted by
Parliument were for specific purposes. He found
on the Journals of the 9th of June, 1714, at a
eine, too, when the majority of the House of Com-
mons erre nut adverse to the Crowie and were rat-
tier suspected of being tainted with principles not
very favourable to the subject's liberty; yet et'
that time. the House being apprised of the Queen's
having retained for herself a quarter of the pro-
duce of the Arsiento Contract, an Address was
voted, ruling of her Majesty that the gunner of
the Assirnto Contract may be disposed of to the
public uses, awl in discharge of the debts
of the nation. Those who are acquainted with
the anecdotes of tease timer, must be aware,
that a part of that produce was to be vested in
trustees for the use of ;its Queen, and that two of
the trustees were persons celebrated—mien Prime
(Minister, the other a Court favourite—Lord Bo-
lingbroke and Mrs. Maritime The Queen huml also
appropriated the revenues of Minoriet and the rents
of the 1 ses at Gilmilter ; moil the Cumming
likewise addressed her Majesty, that those revenues
might severally he applied for the support of tin it
respective garrisons. The Queen, apprised of this
resolution of the Continues, had, previous to re-
ceiving the Address, returned to the South Sea
Company due part of the Assiento Cotitract which
she land appropriated, end answered the Comminute
to that effect, reservine, however, the Minorca and
Gibraltar revenues. The Co tttttt ons again voted au
Address of Thanks to her illirjesty, for the support
she gave to Crude, and assured her that they would
arinieste in all her measures for the lwnefit and
Hs-tease of flat hide mid commerce of tlw kiegdotu.
This Address was carried by 168 ayes to 139 nova.
The tellers for the noes, on that reicasion, were
Wulpoie smut Pulteney, who then agreed in depre-
cating the Address, ss wit sufficiently disapproving
the inimpplication of the public. revenues, usual for
not attending to the reereseutations of the House.
The use el the word acquiesce," in the Address,
eppeared, however, a pretty clear proof of time ideas
diem' entertained respecting the right of the Crown
tm, those revenues, for it itnplicif a power of wnh-
hnldiug to their epplicatiou by t heGove tttttt east.
lie neat proceeded to what lie considered the great
precee .sit on which he would res. his case. It re-
feree; le what temmk place is, the months of Jaimary,
March, and April, of the year 1765, just four
years after the pleasing of the Civil List Act. A
proposal was then made by the French Ambits.
sailor in Loudon to the British Govemmeet, of a
certain sum of money, us a compensation for the
expenses of prisoners of war. On time 15th ofJe-
!wary. 1765, the Chancellor of thee Exchequer
(Mr. Grenville) sent down to tire Ilouse, and Kneed,
dint he hail received that declaration, and that
lite Majesty was desirous of taking the sense of
hie faithful C 1111 l WOOS not the amount which
might be accepted from France. Out the 21st of
Jannary, the 1 !Mum voted am Address of Thanks
to his Majesty, mid recommended the acceptance
of the proposal. On the iid of Mardi, a Copy of
the Convention,. concluded between the Due de
Guiche aud Mr. Grenville, was submitted for the
sanction of the House, and soon after they received
u certificate front Viscount Barrington, who was
then Auditor of the Exchequer, that the sums so
stipulated fur had been paid into the Treasury.
This ciieutustence, considered in all its parts, was,
in his opinion, one of the strongest proofs that no
idea we* then entertained by Goveremeht, that
those sums belonged to the Clown. The last
authority to winch lie should refer was a series
of statutes respecting the establishment of the
East India C pony, and their territorial posses-
sions. Time cases were precisely anailneous, fur the
territories of the East bidet Coinpeny were vested
them for certain SOW. of* money, which were to
he considered prices of territory, as were thW slums
lately received from France. Yet those suns to be
paid by the C palmy were never considered as be-
Imaging to the Crown, lint were turd, red in the seve-
ral Statutes to be rendered available to the public

musky. and although appointed to be , pad into
his Itlitjesty's Excheqeer, it was as to the steward
of the people. Ile expectea mane authorities !riot-
ed to prove the right of the 'Cvliwn ;• but, if II de-
pended opt au usage, it Mort be an usage that oc-
curred fiequeutly, in good times, and sot,' as had
been generally known, publicly discussed, and sanc-
tioned by legislative isothatity; wet-founded on a
precedent surreptitiously obtained, or gleaned from
the archives of an office, scattered over a century ;
not sorb a one as war afforded by the sale of Don-
t:irk, iu the iufatnour reign of the infamous Charles ;
not an iisa:te established by the same means as
ship-money, or general warranty. Hach could not
satisfy him s.r the country. and could have no in-
fluency on the question. lie could not conclude
pith the usual profession, that lie would glad to
Gull he had been mistaken in his view of the sub-
ject; on the contrary, he should be extreitielv
sorry to himd that such 14 principle existed, as that
against which lie contended—laid it would be some
4iti-faction to Lim to know that botch a principle
bad existence, that it nii4lit lie proceeded against
without loss of time, tint totally eradicated.—
fienr, henr.)-1 le continued by moving a series
of ltrsolio ions, in subitaitee as full OVni
Resolved—Thatt. it appears to the House that the sum
of 700,0001. was, by Cumenti tttt , dated October, ISIS, to
lie grnated by Frame to the Hill oh Government, is lieu of
the revenuer of the districts occupied by the army of occu-
pation.
2. That it appears to the House, that France had engaged
to pay to the Itritiah Government the sam of 4,616,0001. as
are indemnity fee the expense of She war.
3. That it appeals to the House that the coistribetioes to
he paid by Franc, are iimilegarle to defray the charges of
the army, at ilw mid of the there hot years, and that it is
not until the expiration of five years, that a rum of tasty
half a million eau be obtained by Great Britain.
4. That a 1141111 of 1,400,006/. had bees allotted to Great
Briars, in consiilerst WO of lwr having principally siu4mired
11w burden of the war, and of the capture of Paris, is trust,
to be distributed as a donation to the army.
b. That all monies received from Fruitier had been paid
into the Military Cheat, except about 10,000 f. which had
been given to the Chevalier Canova, for the erection of a
isionument to 11w Canteen! de Took, alma far defraying the
expense's( transporting the works of art belonging to the
Pope from Frame into Italy.

R. That the application of soma of money to any service.
without the consent sit Parliament, is not %smutted by ap-
proved nsage9 and, it drawn into precedent, world endanger
the right of Parliament and dm liberty of the people.—
( Hear, Amur.)
The first Resolution bring read—

The COMICELLoR of the Exctifelma
heeded, from the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's
own admission. that, in point of strict law, every
thing which had been done on the part of the
Crown. with reference to the subject to which he
had adverted, was justified. The Hon. and Leant-
ed Gentleman. however, with a view to the plausi-
bility of his own argiituents, had not sufficiently
dwelt upon the distinction between the contri-
biaions paid by France previous to the signing of
the Treaty, and those which had been paid since.
The emits illutiens before the Treaty tif Peace, were,
in point of fact, the booty of veer, due to the
prowess era eosin in army, uud were stated in the
Convention of Pans, to be its lieu of those contri-
butions which the Allied Army, on entering
Puri% had a right to exact, by way of ransom.
These, he apprehended, upon the authority of all
former precedents, jure helunged to the Sove-
reign, and were. legally speaking, at his disposal
Hear. j —A small punt of this aunt, hoverer, lie
had only appropriated to particular siervices—neme-
ly, to the removal of the works of art treltutging to the
Pope to Route, and to the erection of a monu-
ment to the last surviving branch of the House of
Stuart. The remainder was left iii the military
chest elf the Duke of Wellington. With respect tothe
second part of the transoctioli—uanicly. the sums
which had been received since the signing of the
Treaty, and which had been granted by way of intim.
nits for the expenses which we had incurred during
the war, this iuvolved entirely anew question, and be
would be ready to admit the justice of the Ilun. and
Learned Getalemait's arguitiesits, provided the
Crown had taken upon itself to appropriate these
sums otherwise than to the purposes fur which they
were received. He begged leave to state, however,
that the lion. and Learned Gretleniun bad totally
misrepresented the statement which he made on this
subject 0:1 ri former night. The,Hon. and Learned
Gentleman suid, that he represented the whole of
this sum to be droll% of the Crown. and disposable
by tlw Crown sit its pleasure. Ile would appeal to
the recollection of the Douse, however, whether he
had ever held such an argument ? or whether, on
the contrary, he had nut distinctly *bard in the
early part of the Session. that these sums had been
received, and were to be applied soled) and exclu-
sively to the public service ?—/ flea?, hear. J—The
Sovereign, as the trustee of the 1114t1011, was the only
person by whom these aunts could be received. and,
as became the duty of such trustee, lie held them
till the manner of their application to the public
service was determined upon. He never did con-
tend that this motley was applicable to any other
purpose ; but had unequivocally announced the in-
tention of the Prince Regent, both with regard to
the sums actually received under the Treaty, rend
those yet to be received. to apply them to the pay-
ment of the expenses of the unity on the Continent.
With respect to the adequacy or inadequacy of the
snins to this purpose, that was a matter of no im-
portance, although lie was prepared to contend that
the contributiens sit the end of the live yeals would
exceed thaw expenses. It appeared hem the ac-
counts on the table, that the slim ulreaely received
bur lals was Litt 15 anillious of byres. or COO,OOO/.
sterling,. '1 his might hell shout of the expenses to
be deli ayed this jeur but io the nsxt sear, the
payment would he increased to 40 billions of livres,
and at the end of the live yeais it was tqiniatt d that
there would be a surplus of 500,0001. Another
proposition a hich the Don. aid Learned
Gentle-
man hail subsidtted to the House was, that the sum
intended to Le applied to the army, being reeeitt'd
from a foreign Power, was to be viewed by the
Douse with just suspicion reprebeii!-tOtl, If
the ibuitillohlet and Ltaimil Gentlemen would
loan to the Consuntion, hour, ver, he weldd find
that it would nut admit of the interpretation
which lie seemed to hare pit upon it, for he ai c a
perceive that it Mated that the simi of teem %-
five millions of byres, or w..e million %blimp, ex:.s
appropriated for the Extrilardr,iary Services 4.1 the
British and Prussian armies. to their icsocetive
Sovereigns, tied not tat the armies tloaust !sea.
11'hatever those leCtisA. tht•refow, %%!is tht
bounty of their Sovereigns, untl iu ins rearect Ida

. .
•
gilt of a foreign Poner.—(//ear.)—Tite Hain eeri
Learned Gentleman then stated that the COll
of she CrOWil, ins the present oceadres, Y.H wiii-ly
different
the precedent of Queen Anne, in the A—. ota
mand in usnittattlisoencuolrieti:(ll°e!olpordsaitilloars°7;.rdt,"::::t!
Treaty (a eircuusetenee, by the bye, which i:a new
days could not hut be regarded with
whereby 'she stipulated to receive one-fonrth pal of
the Slave *Trade of the Spanish NVese Indae, Tot
the privileges which she granted to the Sneei S.
Company. On thieocuiston the Hon. and Lear eel
Gentleman had stated, that P.rlitsnent had sent
up an Address to her Majesty, praying that the
would apply the produce resulting from this Tieetir
to the public. service. So far was this from implant:.
iug the lion. mid Learned Geetleinim's argameee
however, that it had a contrary effect. For its this 14.
stance it distinctly shewed ,t hut Parlisinie reco...,e.e.d
the right of the Crown to the slims in qUeistloll*,
sought that se a boots, to which the pulsate erre not
constitutionally entitled. And t'st..Qutees's answer Cie
more strongly confirmed this feeling ; ler iii %peek.
log of some minor sums, she •said 41. e would
apply them as she thought best for her
The other precedent quest! by the Man :old
Learned Gentlemen, etubraerd a tee:secure; all
lees applicable to Isis argument lie alluded ... lie
Dutch Treaty of 1763, respecting the expel.., et
the support of prisoners of wet. This witch•
arose out of u eettlemeut of account, oligennee.
in Parliasneutury grates, wish *limn the Cr'...i ,71
nothing to do, mid therefore asothiug coal he
inure wise than for the Crown to have it to the
House of Commons to bay: whether they erre ea.
tisfied with the proposal of the French King or not
—( Hear, hear.)—The third precedent inerieraeed
by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, WWI a, hide
applicable to the proposition he meant to sae,eort
as the two former. He alluded to the color et elle
the East ludia Company, for the rue sal of
their charter. The sum paid for this a ..,s-,-
Cage was stipulated by Parliament, a .1 was
consequently placed under the control of Path,.
tnent alone, independetst of the Crown. The I
nouruble end Learned Gentleman had ne‘: ae,-
mudverted upon the danger which might .a...ai
from placing ut the divpueal of the Croats, duriee
five years, a sum of live or six istiliions,
independent of Parliament. lie wi.ite.l
ask the Hon. sad Learned Gentlemen a to:
such danger was apprehended in the het year, envoi
Parliament without heeitatioie had placed Lt 01,•
disposal of the Crown sin less a sum time six mil-
lions ?—(Hear, hear.)—Was there any fear then rat'
the Crown becoming independent of the reoi.f.;
and, if not there'ulson what principle we, :mei/1,1,14
to be hsrboured now ?---(Hear,
1-lon. and learned Gentleman had hinted at the
temptation to snake bad treadles., and 11l
the real interests of the comatry. for the siai,e
pecuniary reward. It' Ministeis could he ea
wicked, he apprehended the motto' et l'arhinaent
would at all times expose them to anal
would effectually check such iniquity. As to the
application of the sums which had been lei (It'll,
this had already been determined by Patlis.aacet
the Supplies which Cicy had voted ; for tho, ;ate,.
like the surplus of the votes of the f..i we, year.
would be included in the Ways and ills ens, and
thereby prevent the rectirienee to other mode,' of
defruyieg the expenses which had bw a S3t•tliontA
by Parliament. Upon the whole, a, the theicera-
hie and Learned Gentleman did not slaw Huy in.--
ajplicatioss of the money in qnestion, or irip,,Ate-
conduct no the pint of the Crown, he should mute
the previous question.
The Amendment having been put from the Chair,
Mr. TIERNEY observed, that the argument. of
his Honourable and Learned Friend nail the
effect of establishing all that he wished—name.:v,
the sums received by way of indemnity Irons
France, was received by the Crown, nut ea, its
separate use, but for the use of the puhlie.
That was the object of his speech; and it haat be, 15
fully attained. 11'hatever aught have been lime .t.-
ietstioti of the Crown upon this subject, he thole:id.
it ought to have been made known to Parilatt!'
by II Message. Such had been the course
by Mr. Pitt, with respect to the Dutch De..ie
He thought the more secure tuode on this vie:-
'don would have been to hare pund the ta.bli, y
into the Exchequer, and to have left it for leo.•. -
mess( afterwards to dispose of it as they t 1,.K
expedient, and not. as seemed to be the prirt
spend it first, and account fur she merle et 'ls
prnditure alterwurds. The House ouelit to inee
some security that this money would i.e apple it
the public service. There was sufficient
suspect that tins would not be the cues., le ea •',.
stun expended in the erten iiii of is iimelielea., 1.
Cardinal de l'olk. the proposition or ;he a. •
tion of this monument had beets sul.mlttctl 14,
House, he was sure this suns alrea.l) give.' enii
not have been voted ; nor did he behete
Lord (Castlereugh) would have had iii' lace
come down with such a propoeition. Tlx ;
of the country contained the hest I1M:U:nel,l
House of Stuart, and afforded a la ss..aa to :MK • .
that alien they acted ill, the ;serne would
them out of the country.--I,lker.)—He ue•
Cast those eii;.,agell its the iretle of NVaterioo e
entitled to a aresaral, hot snitcher wmahl ge • '
the exteet al u 1111111 W) lk question; •
might not obi •ri to sits I: :I si vet he could #..A
from If tea ths-re were its' rti....
soldiers, who were ht' acrid, nt from le
present at that bustle, a lio nets: eqteilly eatitlea.s.•
participate its l'utt reward. UpOls the %bob.. 1..
thought Parliametst might to act for and the
the money should be halted in the Exchequer. :• I
left for there to dole it out as they iieg;.t Lett
proper.

Loral CASTLEREAGH considered that the !Tel.!'
of his Right lion. Friend (the Chancellor oft r
Exelierpiel) hail iellinved all ground of jealoc‘
wards the Clown oa this oeeasioa—(l
au undoubted Inuu tide, that 141 rows feet:lb.:l u -
der treaties were applicable to the public soy
and hence it nil, unnecessary that the C:-•••-
should Wake any communication apon the tone.,'•
The House, in opprovieg of the ticinies which e
1.i.l before them, sic.ciioned the itt-tipt of t •
money, mid the Crown held it as the steward e; t(
public, to be applied as Parliament c•-
rect ; and it would be found dole acknewlcil.rel
in the 'Ways :hid Mraes of the year.
Right IloileurAle man (Mr. Tieriii•)'. f

I.`i;

I

the want of a better argument, has euriertvonreil
to mix-up the questions respecting the Cardinal
de York, and the sum to be given by way of booty
to the t:onids eiigaged in the capture of Paris, will
the rod...lino relative to the sum, received since tie!
of the Definitive Treaty, with which they
had ni, r u lily connection, these expenditures be-
Mg entirely confilied to the booty of war, over
which the Sovereign had a clear control.—lii fact,
he hail proved thal there was not the lihr,litrot
far
.fralonsy —arid that, in point of &et, !herd.
way wahine. but speculation, upon which to hullo!
'the charge ir.taitist the. Crown. of being otherwise
'llisposc.l, than to appropriate the 'ruins in question
'to the ..-osier of the piddle.
Mr. Pn %son nt roomed liis sincere thanks to his
Tim'. and learned Friend for bringing this yllb-
ject before till' I fati.e. becaiow had to) doubt,
;shell this sidelect was itientiutied its the beginning
of the Se.hioii, that it WHil rnutrndrdOW the
-Crib 4.11 had n right to dispose of the milli% a bids it
11:111 hum France to its own lienelit. A
principle diametrically the reverse of this had lawn
establishe.l that Hight, and hence a most Ilia:noble
object hod been gained for the public. Ile was as
adroit an admirer of the Itevollitiods as any nein,
)et be could Hot withhold the iii-e.l of prow. loon
the conduct of a Parliament before that period,
el. ell the reign of Charles the Secouil, by
which it was declared, that it was the exclusive
right of Parliament to apply and to upnroprinie
public money received under any cireumstances.—
I le then alluded to lite sum contri:mted towards the
creetion of a monument to the Cardinal de York,
and the conduct adopted by this country iii the ex-
pulsion of the Stuarts front the Throne. 11..1 Hilt
that course been adopted. they might depend that
',oldie liberty would he us little respected by throw
who followed, as by those who precedes! Jame. 11.
lie knew that circumstances connected with tho-t•
rvt.titr bad liven put forward! Nam the mithiaity of
a title writer, which were not facts ; but lie concur-
red with his !tight Don. Friend iii that
the best monninent of the House of Stuart would

be read in the history of that family.
Sir JAMES MACIIINTOSM. in reply. observed, that
the N aide Lord and the Right lion. Gentleman
on the other side, hail objected to all his precedents,
but with a singular generosity, in point of argument,
had assented to nil the conclusions which he drew
from those precedent,. They were eticoustitent with
each other respectively, and toconsititent with them-
selves. One of his reasons for preferring his own
Resolutions to the previous question was, the desire
that the opinions of the Noble Lord and the Right
Hon. Gentleman 'should be embodied in the jour-
pale for the information of posterity. The Noble
Loot had objected that it was a stew caw. yet 1w
acknowledged that it did not slant ma particle of
doubt.
The previous question was then put on each Re-
solution, and carried without a
Mr. Rolm? WARD brought sip an Account of
the Contingeut Expenses of the Orduance, for the
last ten years.
Mr. I'ousosix wished to know on what day
the Alien Bill, which was one of the dropped Or-
ders, would be brought forward ?
Lora 4.:ASTLIRILAGH stained Friday.
Lord CatendißeAtlii then intimated his Intention
of having the Civil List Bill referred to a Cotunintre
on Friday; and, in the cause of the same evening,
to move for the bringing up of the Report, with a
view to the publidstion of the new clauses on Su-
The SPRAiRt observed, that he knew no in-
stance in which the House bad hurried a Money
Bill through three or four stages on the same night,
in order to come to some particular stage.
Mr. Petition BY stated his objection to dispensing
with the established rules of the House, especially
in such a case as the present.
After some further conversation, in which the
SPEAKER, Mr. Possostae, and Lord Cmtrt.t:-
lit:Amt, took parts, the House went into Committ. e
4111 the Civil List Act, and the Report war ordered
to be received on Friday.
Mr. VESF.Y FITZGERALD gave notice, that he
el hl move for a Committee of the whale llou.e
'III Friday next, to consider of the 7th Article of
the Union between Great Britain and Ireland.
GREENWICH HOSPITAL.
Sir CHARLES Morr', in a speech of some length,
rimmenited various facts with regard to the estates
belonging to Greenwich Hospital, from which lie
inferred that great mismanagement had taken place,
tipsii that the Institution would be benefited by put-
ting theist up to sale. Ile stated, that a ruin out
less than 54.0001. had been expended on the estate
Northumlwrland, in the course of live years, for
building and repairing farm-houses and other of-
fices. Large ruins were also spent iu prosecuting
expensive trials. Of the two C '.,loners up-
pointrd, our was expected to do the whole business,
she. tither being u sort of sleeping partner in the
'ammo. He concluded with moving for a Com-
mittee to inquire into the causer of the thfl'ereiters
i it the gross and net proceeds of the estates of Green-
wich Hospital, is Cumberland, Northumberland,
and Durham, es appeared from the accounts on llte
table.
Mr. 1.0110 Maintained, that the Hon. Baronet
had not made out a prima facie case in support of
his moti•m. Large ruins, he admitted, were laid
nut, but they had produced a greet increase to the
property. 'Fiorito y atter of enclosure land lied been
nailed, and 16 acres hail been converted from grass
to tumble land. Two thousand acres of wood were
ulso added. The law expenses were wither untie-
ccssary nor nitsucceuful. It had been anted, that
the two Receivers were useless, but so extensive u
inanagentent could not be conducted by one person.
Sir MATTHEW RIDLEY supported the motion,
on the ground that the great expenditure, as com-
pared with the smallness of the 'let revenue, was
on itself a ground for inquiry. 11e was far f
complai ll i l ig of the managers of the estate, who,
he was persuaded, did ,dl for the best ; but the
managetnent was certainly iu some of its arrange-
ments imperfect.
Mr. Clusltut said, it was too much to say that,
because three hid beet§ great outgoings. therefore
tn. re had been usitanaisagement. Ile then referred
to tile Report of the C Wee of 1805, by which
a emit increase in the produce of the estates of
11615 was staticipated. Thr net produce was then csl-
rotated. would be 34.0001. in the year 1815; but
it only produced 44,000/. and odd. This &Woe-
tutu area. from the events by which property was

altered within the last year, and other circumstances
which could not have been cOntroled. When the ,
relettin;,-s, however, took place, the defalcation on '
those estates would not be more than 1,500/. or
12,004ut. n-veer, though severhl landholder: in North-
umberland sustained a loss of 25 per cent. This
did not whew bad mansgement.—( lieur.)-11e
would, therefore, vote against the motion, the
Hon. Bart. having made out no case in its support.
Mr. Gomm' complained of the extraordinary
expense in five years of 54,000/. while the estates
hail only increased 4,0001. This in itself was a
sufficient reason for going into a Committee.
Sir M. Ittur.v.v explained, that he meant to
ca,t nn imputation on the managers, but to state
that they had meted erroneously.
Mr. 1!K n K F.R explained.
Sir Cu titres M. l'ot.e, though he woold not
supeort the motioti, could not but observe, that
since the year 1770 there had beeii no greater re-
torus from these estates than a fourth of the gross
rent. The expenditure of Greenwich flospital was
now quintuple what it wile in 1805, it was then hut
90,000, mud at the same time the rednetion in the
navy nert,sarily reduced its main income. Pat ha-
mein tnitzfit to large the side or these estates, and
thereby take away the question of the management
altogether. Ile, however, saw no use in a Coin-
nutlet..
Sir Joserti YORKE was astonished at such a
propositi tttt as the sale of' the estates of Greenwich
Hospital. He might as well think of selling the
edifice itself. He then defended the Directors,
who, iie said, were not such vacillating men as they
were described ; he had two of them in his eve, and
thought them very steady fellows.—/A laugh.)—
A. his Honourable Friend who spoke last saw no
ii-e in the Committee called for by the Honourable
Baronet, who made the present motion, lie (Sir J.
Yorke) could only say lie *Avg no use iis his speech.
liear foal a laugh.)
Sir CHARLES Mimic briefly replied, when the
House divided, and the numbers were—

For the motitsu 34_ _

Apinst it

Majority airainat it

POOR-HOUSE. BILL.
Sir Fc►Rtov Batt Dons moved the second read-
ing of the l'oor-house Bill.--The Bill too then
real it se I time, and indered to be committed

on Friday hest.
The I lotiourahle Baronet shut moved the second
reading of the Pauper Removal Bill. He enforced
its sweesaty on the authority of several communi-
cations from different quarters its the kingdom.
Its provisions were also not compulsory on the Ma-
gistrates its certain eases.—The Bill was then read a
second time, slid ordered to he committed on Mon-
day next.
CIVIL LIST.
Oti the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Ex-
CHEQUER, the C tttttt nittee on the Civil List wus
postponed until Month.), next.

COUNTY RATE.
Mr. BROODEN brought up the Report of the
County Itute Bill, which wins received awl agreed to.