The Sun.
London, England, 1855-04-17 00:00:00

SUPPLY.

The house then went into Committee of Supply, when
Mr. FITZROY took the chair as chairman of ways
and means amidst cheers.
Ott the vote of 154,000/. for the Royal palaces and
gardens,
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the vote on the gr. and
that there was net snEi-;.ien.tn res,a,-.±-,7;nsobwoun,,ef.ir
Ivti.,ty.
so large a =urn, particularly
eiar_v ti
jected to the house voting n . l 1,00..)/. for maiErzoin-
ing Frartlptoll Court Palace solely fir the accoininoilai ion
of the paupers of tbeari-tocTiev. Snce theaccession kf. her
155,0001. had been cot. ,d to
present Ma'estYii no less th .
keep up Ha pton Court
.Palace, ()le of the royal pa:aces
Which he believed her Majesty had never even seen. In
addition to that, 45. OM. had been v(P,'e'lk to _k_eeeP..i.)n.
order IlamPt
jested - °ll
Court Park and Bushyof
1760.51..Eth,.1
nig.
a
vzontekqe focrlso to the large sum f
,he
apartments c „
keenino• in repair the ..s --, la.
Thßime.aeinhri‘re in St. James's Palace, hi .N.
_,I,
should like eoi'afg already handsomely provided for.. id
and he sh,,nl.l"et',oAe estimate., referred to a cominittee,
that the eh 14 ra",l that
azoie. atra,ao
re at a future time. 1-Ie lu,c):_eidt
.PPrmci,ta.ilie motion, as
Mr. wltws. report progress, and ask leave to Sit
not of these estimates full and due
visa, and they h
of meMbera. ail
tn. l'i•iut"leen
eornolittee,
mates to a aeis'--- given before Om re-
taken so pctlately alB 4S, a oderetah:na
regar,i and placed in the bands
to those esti-
made avery elaho;
":" committee b!tiVi
such committee were ate
rep,ft th t eginro'
the'commencemen of ittninated • ' -...,•siii •
, A e,,, a any
now, it must be at the • Ilhaald
eud of th:s'eal:i7nnifhte"feart theme
,hdon.. at
mittee could report.
Mr. SPOONER concurred e
(Mr. Williams) that some furtewritolortmheattno• rnuet,,Ley
many of the details t"
46
given to the house on
atia2ates.
Mr. MACARTNEY believed a. Standingof those
for the estimates at the commenoenlent c:mtnitt-e°
would be of great utility, and he should bet.,,,„,"%i(n3
support the motion of the hon. member (xi Willr,e' to
that the chairman should report progress. "z is),
Sir W. MOLESWORTE opposed the motion'
explained the necessity for the votes for keeping and
Royal Palaces and Parks in perfect repair.
After a few remarks from Mr. WTSE, Sir F. Batt No,
and one or two other hon. members, the vote vas
agreed to.

On the vote of 69,544/. for maintaining and kee:)'.ng
in repair the royal parks and pleasure-grounds,
Mr. EWART urged the throwing open to the puldie
of the grounds in Hyde-park be!ongiug to the ranger and
deputy-ringer.

iiir 'W. MOLESWORTH had no power to speak on

Mr-. M'GREGOR thought that no jobbery that bad
ever been heard of would prove equal to an 'honest ex-
posure of the manner in which the various amounts
voted at different times had been expended upon our
public buildings, &c.
Sr H. WI LLOUGHBY sail the expenditure that
belonged to the department of Woods and Forests did
not stand upon the votes then under discussion. At the
same time he maintained that the house had a right to
question every item of the expenditure of that de -
prtment.
Mr. WILLIAMS insisted that the Government had
not fulfilled the engagement of the late Chancellor of the
Exchequer, who promised that 6,000,000/., which had
formerly been spent in silence, should he brought to
light, and placed under the cognisance of the house.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that the present Government had punctually and
exactly fulfilled the engagements of the late Chancellor
of the Exchequer. He ucdertook to bring the re-
venue service under the cognisance of the house, and
not that that expenditure should be paid into the
Exchequer before any vote should be taken in the
house. It had been already stated that it was not his
intention to place the expenditure of managing the land
revenue of the Crown upon the estimates, and that inten-
t-0 . also had been adhered to. With regard to the parks,
ti,ey had been originally the property oi the Cr o en, but bad
keen gratuitously granted by the Crown to the public
for their benefit and pleasure. Windsor-park was in the
occupancy of the Crown itself, and so was put upon the
expenses of the land revenue. The hon. member for Lam-
beth had in his eye an act which transferred certlin
charges upon the Consolidated Fund, and which therefore
were paid by the Exchequer without any annual vote of
the house. They were included every one in the miscella-
neous estimates, which had been and would be laid on the
table. The greater part of them would be found in No. 2.
Mr. EWART thought there should be a greater nuin-
tier of seats provided in the parks. He also objected to
the carrying away of quantities of gravel for the pur-
pose of making roads, and then filling up the spaces left
with street sweepings, so as to create a kind of artficial
swamp.

Sir \l7. MOLESWORTII said that a great number of
seats should be provided, and that the taking away of
grivel should be discontinued.
Mr. MA.CARTNEY said that the wooden railing in
the Rotten-row should give place to a handsome iron one.

Sir W. MOLESWORTH said that a vote would be
pr .posed this year fir completing the iron railing which
had alleady begun in Rotten-row.
The vote was then agreed to.
Oa the vote of 122,2091. for the works and expenses
of the new houses of Parliament,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to have some idea
of what the total amount of the cost of the new hones
would be. The original understanding was 750,0001.,
but he believed that the expenditure now exceeded two

Sir C. D. NORREYS said the right hon. gentleman
had promised to call upon Sir C. Barry to lay before
Parliament a plan of what it was proposed yet to do
with al! the buildings in New Palace-yard. He appre-
hended that the plans of Westminster-bridge were calcu•
lated with reference to extensive buildings there. Then
he wished to know further whether the new fresco was
to he executed by the same Mr. Cope who executed the
fresco representing " the first Investiture of the Garter"
in the House of Lords! That was a work of so diszrace-
ful a character to the art of this country that he saonti
be very sorry that any sum should be paid the same
artist for any other fresco.
Sir W.MOLESWORTH said it was true he promised
to obtain front Sir C. Barry a statement of the works he
wished to execute and of their probable cost, and he had
obtained a report from him. On the 31st March, 1854,
it was stated that a further sum of 280,000 i. would be
required to complete works already sanctioned. Of that
sum 107,0001. was ♦oted last year, 85,1001. would be
asked this year. leaving 88,0001. to be voted at a future
period. Sir C. Barry calculated that for additional works
not already sanctioned, there would be required an ad•
ditional expenditure of 651,0001. Matters, then, stood
thus :

Expenditure up to 31st March, 1854 £1,583,000
Voted la3t year 107,000

Probable amount expended up to this time...X1,690,000

Probable expenditure when completed in full .E 1,863,000
And supposing the additional 651,0001. to be sanctioned,
that would raise the probable total cost of the building
to nearly two millions and a half. (A laugh.) Sir C.
Barry's report had been sent to the Treasury, but bad
not yet been decided on.

Sir C. D. NORREYS complained that there was no
map of where the propose' new buildings were to be
placed.

Mr. MACARTNEY hoped the Treasury would not
presume to authorise Sir C. Barry to expend so large an
amount as 651,0001. without the sanction of the house.
Mr. WILLIAMS thought the time had now come
when a stop must be put to Sir C. Barry's extravagant
expenditure. (Hear, hear.)
Captain SCOBELL said what had already been done
could not be helped, but he trusted that Sir C. Barry
would find that for the future if the House of Commons
was not his master, the President of the Board of Works
w, id be.
Mr. BAILEY asked if the alteration and removal of
the courts of law were included in these sums ?
Sir W. MOLESWORTH---The removal of the courts
of law was certainly not included.
Mr. WILSON entered into some explanations with
reference to the question of Sir Charles Barry's commis-
sion. He said that it had been a matter of dispute be-
tween Sir Charles Barry and every successive Treasury.
The original agreement was entered into between Lord
Bessborough and Sir Charles Barry, and when an ex-
penditure of 700,0001. was calculated, not to finish the
building, but only to include the shell and plans, Sir
Charles Barry protested that he had never assented to
that agreement by which he was to retain in his
hands a sum of 25,0001. in full of the commission of
the building then calculated. By this agreement Sr
Charles Barry would receive a percentage of about 3 per
cent. on the outlay. Whereas, the usual commission paid
to architects was 5 per cent. The 3 per cent. commission
had been paid to other eminent 'architects for public works,
but in those cases some charges for ailineasurement we, e
borne by the public, which were usually defrayed by the
a"chitect when a 5 per cent. commteFion was allowed.
From time to time the expenditure had ereatly exceeded
the original estimate ; and when the time eame for a
settlement it appeared that a jie-t mode would be to lake
up the pr ncpie adopted by Lord Bessh r lu.di at the
conimenceinei t, which Sir Charles Barry pratested he
hal never assented to, althouoh he admitted that be ha I
acted under it—and to pay a couuniesum upon the whole
expenditure at the same rate. Sir Charles Barry pre-
tested aeainst this decision, and a corresp si,l• nee hail
gone on from that day to the present time. Her Ma-
jesty's Government adhered to the view which th y had
taken, and the paver-mete had been kept within the
amouat calculated at the three per cent. upon the outlay.
With respect to the question of telmea-ureinent, it was
Mated that a consid-Table expense had b .en incurred li%
Sir Cherie', Barry, and the question Has under cce,sidi;-
ration ; but he hoped that in a short time it would be
brought to a conclusion.
In reply to a que-tion from several hen. members,
Sir W. MOLESWORTFI said that Government was
prepared to resist any further chareee beyond the 3 i.er
cent., which was the usual amount paid to architects for
public worm+, including decorations and other similar
matters.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said a proposition ought to
have been made to SirtCohaaffrloersdßialrisrysetorvtileiss eoffneccte,rttlaiairti
if he did not chooser
terms they would bestic
olnBPfrorn an /lox. MEMBER,
In reply
verSitiirlaltlinMotb: taLleisexEgaiii.l:l(ei:!u.c:os9erene'RnseiarTedeh,mtentiestsiestudelnin(villat:fith'ao..txol%oo.oiftlll,h"ree:scPielim)(r.t.rlittilteletfeel
aerie,: of the.
in conseq
t'.3.1 to consider that twitter. A
which had Veen aPII7, , i.,
portion on
. incurred,exp lan a7tnilotenoni
Mr. Gurney was employedhe must say ti ..
the
his own part,
the committee.reetahlerte.rasedoilinniendati,,lt
he
• ted considerable
the future he anticipated thoutelit the. improvement wbich
11 dissatisfaction already
but for
veancii,r,yapiaoiorna.f
otfiTattne house was worth the expense,
prevailed on this matter, and i
bll d
rteadklleCnt ipolnasc.e in
went forth as it now stood,
over it year
.ittwocu be increased if it
heauvgihntgnboete been
ogiven,
this expenditure which
hecons
The vote hangingidered the house
The e was then agreed to.
the
expert of 6,0001. was voted towards defraying
The eez7vgeneral repository of records.
works at the Qte
loge at tiolylll"
After a short •
The follow'
to :-
375/. for the 0 D D.
30,963/. for thze. e ---'8
was the sum of 122,8411. on account of
oge:PontvaeeekenewatteiHortal
trhbeouvrotaenwdasHaarrbeoeudrt
ou
.f Re-
atoeftter:a thenl:se sa
trick proposed
Harbour. and a g r e e d i
ta;
.top:blic buildings in I
Ireland
for the wronrak:
,---eetiat of Kingstown
1188r2171u41.01. for &fraying the
t w 0 Houses of Parliament. salaries al.ll ‘lPennes 'atilt, i'

On the question that 46,411. be voted to defray the
expenses of the commissioners of audit,
Mr. WILLIAMS again took the opportunity of pro-
testing against the hurried manner in which these esti-
mates were being dispo(ed of. He had been many years
in the house, but never in the whole of his experience
had he seen important public business, swth as was in-
cluded in these estimates, brought in the very first night
after the Easter recess. It was a complete farce asking
the house to vote these estimates when there bad been
no time to consider Haim.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said full
notice was given before the recess that these estimates
would be brought on tonight, and he could not see, there-
fore, that his hon. frieid had any reason to complain.
Mr. WILLIAMS observed that when the right hon.
gentleman the merabe: for Buckinghamshire was Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer he laid the estimates hefcre the
house long before he asked the house to vote them.
Why was not the same course taken this year?
Mr. DISRAELI die not think the house had any
right to complain, as it was generally understood before
the recess that the miscellaneous estimates would be
brought forward immediately on the re-assembling of the
house. He rsse, however, chiefly fair the purpose of pro-
testing against the principle laid down by the hon. gen-
tleman, that no business of any importance ought to be
brou4ht forward on the first night after the recess. Why,
on the first night after.a recess hon. members returned to
their labou rs with reinvigorated energies,and that he should
have thought was j ust the time when business iif importance
could be be-t disposed of. If the principle of the hon.
member were allowed to prevail it would be tantamount
to prolonging the holitays, and there would be no end
to delays and confusion

Mr. SPOONER quite agrsed with the right hon. gen-
tleman that it was highly inexpedient to prolong the
holidays ; but what he complained of was that these
estimates were not prirted before thcf recess, which might
easily have been done.
Mr. WILLIAMS contended that the whole of the
estimates ought to be delivered together, and not distri-
but-id piecemeal.

Mr. M'GREGOR -Enid, for his part, he objected to
voting estimates while they were in ignora!me of the in•
tentions of the Goverrment with regard ti the ways and

mane,
Tile vote way then agreed to, as were also the follow-
.

_ .
ing, viz. :-
16,270/. for the Copyholil Enclosure and Tithe Com-
mission.
12,1901. for the imprest expenses under the Enclosure
ans,l3,srcajoirgfeorAet'
the General Register-office of England
and Wales.
3,6581. for the General Register-office, Dublin.
5,715/. for the orrice: of Registrar-General of Births,
Deaths, &c., in Scotladd.
14,9861. for the expense of the National Debt-office.
3,260/. for the Public Works Loan Commission.
1,5701. for the West Indian Islands Relief Commission.
8201. for the Commissioners of Lunacy.
On the vote for 3,000/. to pay the salaries of the prin-
cipal officers of the Office of Metripolitan Buildings,
Lord SEYMOUR declared that no act contained so
much of injustice and inconvenience as the Metropolitan
Buildings Act. Instead of tending to secure the safety
of houses it often tended to endanger them, while in-
stead of tending to good drainage, it tended to just the
contrary. There were two official referees under the act,
one a lawyer, the other an architect ; but they so little
agreed with each other that they would not sit in the
same room together. Now, before they passed this vote,
they ought to have some pledge that a bill would be
brought in to reined. this disgraceful state of things.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said he had already ob-
tained leave to bring in a bill to alter and awend the
Metropolitan Buildings Act ; and in that bill he pro-
posed to deal with the question of referees.
The vote was then agreed to, as were also the follow-
ing viz. :-
984/. for the general superintendent of country roads,
South Wales.
1.610/. for the Registrar of Friendly Societies in Eng-
land:
32,000/. for the Secret Service.
360,470/. for printing and stationery.
Mr. WILSON said he proposed to takp the next vote
out of its usual course. It was the Education Vote, but
if the house objected to pass the vote without discussion,
perhaps they would allow him to take a sum on account.
Mr. DISRAE LI,--Why not have the discussion now I
Mr. WILSON did not think it would be convenient
to take the discussion now. The vote was 381,000/.
Would the committee allow him to take a vote on ac-
-1 thought
t i t n
nwnol ud l db
eb ei
nmt
ruuedhu be
nedt t ebryt oa
count
postponefDor
I2tshOT
te voteOA,OEOOL/.,
A r.
statement from the Minister.
Sir G. GREY said a vote on account was required for
the sake of carrying out pressing arrangements. A state-
ment would be made before the balance was moved.
Mr. DISRAELI—Cannot you take a smaller sum!
Mr. WILSON—Yes, 100,000/.
A vote on account for 100,000/. was then agreed to.
The house then resumed, and the report was ordered
to be received to-morrow.
PASSENGERS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
The bill was passed through committee pro forma.
PUBLIC LIBRARIES AND MUSEUMS (IRE-
LAND) BILL.
Tis bill was read a second time and ordered to be
committed.
LUNATIC ASYLUITS (IRELAND) BILL.
0 the iii•aion of the CHANCELLOR of the EL
CH EQUER, the f-llowing members were a,ppointed as
the select, committee on Lunatic Asylums (frelaul) Ad-
vances Bill : —Mr. frorstnan, Sir J. Trillope, Mr. Mac.-
attney, Mr. Roht. Palmer, Sir J. Duckworth, Mr. E.
Denison, Mr. Fa:an, Mr. Stanley, Mr. F. Scully, Mr.
Byng, and C il. Dunne.
COURT OF SESSIONS (SCOTLAND).
The LORD-ADVOCATE obtained leave to bring in
a bid to regulate the procedure in the Court of Sessions
in Scotlaiol. The object of the bill is to equalise the
business before the Lords Ordinary and the Court of
Sessions.
The bill was subsequently brought in and read a first
time.

Ou the question that the house do now adj..urn,
Mr. DI§RAELI inquired if the financial statement
wa-i to he mad e on Friday ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
in the affirmative.
The house then adjourned at half-past nine.