The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-15 00:00:00

•
Bible approaching to our House of Lords. •He also I sisted exclusively of gentlemen who were large holders
thought that with an elective upper chamber greater these waste lands. He knew that so strong a feeling tv
greater risk of collision between the two chambers would rising up in the colony on this question that
belieunle
be run, and that it would be more difficult to carry on i change was Made he did not hesitate to express his
the husieess of legislation with a nominated than with that it must end in bloodshed and civil war. It wasp e.O
an elected upper chamber. Therefore, he himself pre- featly natural that these large holders of land should
oons_
ferred a nominated upper chamber, hut he had had no favourofanominatedcouncil, buhatleast the choicesh_enw:
motive in inducing the colonists to accept it, such that be left to the colonists themselves. We ought notesto d. 7
referred to by the hon. member for Kidderminster. to the people of Australia the power of dealing ith he
There was one point indispensable for the house to con-
eider well—that the utmost care should be taken to leave present system, we should do irreparable injury to s
no doubt as to the validity and legality of these billsmother t y and the colonie f
question themselves. If we persisted in maintaining
the
•
when passed. (Hear.) He should certainly vote for the and excite bad blood for an object in itself wort
second between the country r
second reading.
Mr. DUFFY said when the measure got into nom' its present vicious construction, would never consent..;
mittee he should take the liberty of proposing amend- any alteration infusing any considerable portion of a lile
this
It seemed to him clear that the colonial legislature, oustr..
ments to the clause relating to the qualification of mem- ral element. He (Mr. Lowe) took great interest in
ate
leers of the House of Representatives ; while, at the samebecause had striven -offiee•
time, he should take exception, to the clause which re- the• - of the Colonial
colony from the domination
elitese destiny
rated to the veto of the Crown. question, he
That struggle was successful, but it seem t fall
Lord J. RUSSELL declined to enter into any discus- -,of colonies when liberated from deep
ore
cal et
sion of voluntary principle in matters of religion, as they into the hands of oligarchies even more tvrauni
t.
eh
were not called upon to give any decision upon it ; but home. He was convinced that if they passed this bill la.)i;
the colony of Victoria had decided that they would al)" would establish inNew South Wales a elique whieh vsoatiii!l
propriate 50,0001. to the promotion of religion, believing produce endless discord and confusion. No rneasurehece q
it to be necessary for the welfare of their society, and he be more odious than one which would have the ef ,
sue.
thought it would be ungracious in the house to run robbing the bulk of the free colonists of lan& whirhaitee_eeL
counter to their wishes. (Hear.) If the sum should had naturally regarded for a long time as the pats:huaYs
hereafter be found to be extravagant, there was ei. clause e that
their children. He begged to conclude by in° l'i,teet
,1 o ie.
in the bill giving the colonial legislature power to reduce an amendment that the bill be read a second tine
the amount ; bat in spite of that clause, Government day six months. ust
were told to take warning from what had happened with oh the
reference to the clergy reserves of Canada. Well, but into a conflict
their
ensue if that house was forced
Government had profited by that experience, and they teased bY _
wishes of one of our colonies clearly expressed
the people of
had avoided the errors which were formerly committed. Mr. J. BALL said the most mischievous results in
The difficulties which occurred in Canada arose out of legislative assembly. For nearly 10
that colony had been seeking to obtait had now corn:
the restrictions which were placed upon the legislature
Win rights, and he rejoiced that the timehose lh_ess. GI
of Canada in dealing with the clergy reserves ; but here
those restrictions were avoided, and the matter was left when the house was about to grant t t
a,r°_Zy inmate
great point on which they had mhs t o
__ Governr° e
almost entirely in the hands of the colonial legislature. was the right to fix the form of their wh
°dice them 141:
(Hear ) With respect to the objection so ingeniously Nor would anything be so likelytopreju
urged by the hon. and learned member for Kidderminy- on them by
who
star, it appeared to him that the objection was upon the any measure as an attempt to force it :Pato.
t their o
sit
word "assent." The bon. and learned gentleman argued authority of the imperial legislatureha
!ty measure. ~0
that Parliament could not adopt this bill because it had wishes and opinions. This was no .
in the Austriol t
not been assented to by the legislative council of was first brought forward in 1852
e„,, so in bite
Victoria ; but the bill formed part of what the legis- council ; it was again considered in lboeheie majority
relive council had agreed to, and therefore the ergo- years the divieion lists showed a considersau
years
themselves eer-
ie, the, t to.
the lily,
ment of the hon. and learned gentleman was more
ingenious than true. Equally was his argument of no rfleasislativ° ass"; for
it
tf
wasthe council in
eienibflaevotoureaoyf itthsaptraovisionu.eo
was
force, that whereas the legislative council had incorpo- tare result of the deliberations of a laeg.
an. oensbase
rated in their act provisions over which they had no this was the one. The case of the n°
0 council svet he
authority, and the Imperial Parliament had no power Kidderminster was that the legislars, t . and
said
to "assent" to those parts which really did come within competent to legislate upon such 3 :Ire, Lody n
n se
tteieti
o thea a
the province of the legislative council. The proposal of proposed to send the bill back W hill,
hiluaisteireoetitisoe
the hon, and learned gentleman, that they should pass a was incompetent to entertain it. Poiseists
measure empowering the governors of the colony to die- bill rested mainly upon the fact 01, Iby the of of the
pence with the provisions of an Act of Parliament, wasthe
an absurdity that required no refutation. (Hear.) With having been presented against the oithe deeecw
after it had been passed, and upon, sies. Net;tione
respect to some other proposals which had been made, present electoral law in New South, l'ie of the P:ry for
was anxious to say a few words upon that of the bon: total number of signatures to the w3.1e20,'
and learned member for Staffordshire on the subject of presented against the bill was only t 6
boeo
p;
entieticeos swveertee
reserving bills for the pleasure of the Crown. The hon. midable number in itself. But when se, 000 names bore
examined it would not be found that le
t petitionaica.
and learned gentleman found fault with the bill so far as
appended to them. Two of the largeso ,
an ess
.0
.e.
it related to that matter ; but he must tell the ho and
learned member that this part of the bill conformed, as substantially the same signatures ;
eohs of the i
Big'
nearly as possible, to the recommendation issued by thee ntrrt°
right hon. hart. the member for Droitwich, when he was at 'lions devices well known in the co A to to
,_d the
tion of these documents showed thaut
the head of the Colonial-office. But this system of reserving natures to petitions had been resorts
an appen,ciii' 0 0
was every day becoming more theoretical than practical, signatures. He found that one pie sad also is"tosieg.
and therefore it was not necessary to attach much weight names of all his children, and b . "
e one be' ee the
to this objection. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman who many as twenty or thirty nas mesal
better tact,i frog,
spoke last went into certain details with respect to the He thought, however, there
to be dedue.-00 the
qualification of electors and the elected ;• but it appeared opinion of the colonists than was to
etitione up leer
to him that if you had a second elective chamber and an the number of signatures to
lookedthe
et the of the
elective legislative council, it was a wise thought to subject. He found, if they .tie members
net 0
make the qualification high of the persons to be elected. of persons represented by the vatrieis for ors g*:ublio
(Hear.) The British colonies had adopted as far as pee- Legislative Council who had vo hde_suey....-tin hp ur
Bible the forms of the British constitution in the con- nominee council, that—leaving out :noseer of:bisect
struction of their government?, but in certain cases there opinion of the colony wasetwo to ocne
tianiolly eyrotpe bin the
were political safeguards in British institutions which the per chamber so constituted. Ile,
_or nreprierrut boil
colonies could not adopt from the nature of their circum- very much in the complaint of too:,
_hed withboad acted
obtaoinbtara
stances, and therefore they had been careful to erect a large districts who objected to bein T t
dovernme"- eet e°°';
barrier, like this measure of qualifications, against sudden represented ; and he thought the
a. . The !!,:st, an
eruptions of the popular will. (Hear.) On the %hole he wisely in giving them represent timhsss c'ow'ersli strong
plaint was as to the so-called extra There 1 service
could not help believing otherwise than that this was a
the corrupt bargain which it implied' the the ciclissetbest
large and liberal measure. He would not go into the
question of the civil list, the sums might be large, but reasons why the important branchealo
vote ;but the "
might they not have been calculated upon the extrava- should nest be subected to an anhu a is Which
eon in".
gent prices which prevailed at the time they were fixed.. that were right or wrong, the
BnitatPed"which ederea ,eiv
But he did not pretend to enter into this matter at now stood was one which adm
stases lie sisiato.
any length; he did not intend to defend the economy of vited—future legislation, if circhme,
her to Lebo disee:
the sums, nor did he pretend to censure their extrava- necessary. Ile could not say whit ocessarYthey 130_
gance. All that he said was, that; the colony had pre- of New South Wales would think hu
restrictions Which
et leave
tu
pared them, and they should be the best judges in the cumber themselves of the
o
shodo least way
matter but if the sums were really found to he extrava- themselves created, but they sho
t 'De mee"rteo
gent, the colony would still have the power to apply the say that the English Government
effect th so had
~
remedy of reduction, though at the same time it would and prevented them carrying The last toplefeastroe_s
they believed to be necessary. •-tuu be thee e 5.,,, s gor_
be open to the governor to advise her Majesty not to as- d to
sent to any measure which contravenes the principle of notice was what was considered N I`l°;its an
e't
strict justice, or which proposed to take away from any proposition of having a nominee '
eessTbut there soh asoss
man an income which he had a right to expect, and which deal might be said on both ei
...
__ eystenhaeo syste_s
sential difference between a noirla":,e, noloi_ent o.'l_
had been guaranteed by former laws. Upon the whole,
then, looking at the various measures which had been had long existed in the colonies,ns.,",_ pornGe Poi
in
passed by these colonies, he could not help feeling other- when that which was called respos.
eirwas supfereseeih,
wise than fully satisfied with them. The discussion which established. So long as that syt Ifs, pow 00 W`bYe.
public opinion, so long did it Rot a' i.,
they gave rise to displayed great ability, particularly in fallen.the sYs-eafis fro° le,
but whenever it lost that suppo so •, e neop ,
the case of that one which came from South Wales;violent aeto te° ra OP
and that without any esous •ee .
they had all been made the subject of great deliberation, was dange envie ao
while their provisions had been framed with great care lieving theta nominee system erre felt c
_eihie ,_ ,
his belief lay quite the other way
under ,
_r repo. serite
to
and attention, and he must say that as they breathed,
the shape the qhestion took ae
dangerous eet'ect teat
as was to be expected, a warm attachment to the consto
vernment was not at all a
o,_ die . for the.
tution of the mother country, ho hoped and believed
provision that the representation
rr.'bisteredp,sl seial
they would prove the means of securing the happiness
be in the hands of those who were 0 .7:608 siin :ois
_h
and prosperity of the colonies themselves. (Cheers).
Mr. A. PELLATT found fault with the endowment district, the talk about oligarchy b-c!„,,ble °.,., inev_ge,
He believed the colonists were quite eril; wisclelf,i,bt3
clause, which he declared to be extravagant and opposed
to the wishes and feelings of the colonists. He, there- laws for their own government, and heafseees "Areitio°
fore, wished to know distinctly from the noble lord whe- to modify and amend them as circurro:47lo conelonolir,
ther, supposing this bill were passed, the colonial legis• quire ;' and he was confident that und.er the alle,io, en!
now proposed they would continue t°sf educe times I"
lature would still have power to reduce the 50,0001., or the
Lad they still the power to dissent to it ? • able place in that-wonderful progrese."bae
•seuis
Lord J. RUSSELL—Yes, they have the power to civili,ation which marked and dist' is
which.we lived. (Hear, hear.) were;;
dissent to it, but of course they will be bound bywhat //sabers h iste
The house then divided. The n
is due to the parties as a point of justice.
Mr. A. PELLATT— Will their measure of dissent For the second reading ..• ...... ..• 109
••••" -- to
have to be referred to the Crown ? Against it ........................ ......... _
_Da
Lord J. RUSSELL—It will have to receive the Majority ................. •
and
ordered _
Joie, s ea
sanction of the Crown. The bill was then read a second t
'll Nye
.1 Bi
- After a few words from Mr. HADFIELD, who also oh- be committed. t Roe.' er
jected to the endowment clause, Mr. BELL withdrew his The Waste Lands (Australia)
Ac elided. rough 6°
amendment, when .the bill was read a second time, and a second time, and ordered to be orilaseed tb
ordered to he committed. The Coal Mines Inspection Bill i' a.
NEW SOUTH WALES GOVERNMENT BILL. mittee, and was ordered to be report ,,,Tisse, f tee
LAN) P ent °
Mr. E. BALL moved the second reading of this bill. SCHOOLS (scoT stPenem fie
Mr. LOWE moved as an amendment that the bill Mr. STIRLING moved the Pnh of JulY.t that
tee
be read a second time that day six 'months. He second reading •of this hill to the lit
woodmen
sbailild that almost all the objections taken by him to the Mr. CRAUFURD moved as n° aseth,' •thar°l
just disposed of applied with equal force to the men- secondreading be postponed three re t 0,39 V" iith 0
eudmeg to the
sure before the house ;but as the house had not thought
After a conversation the am t oiled efl•
them of sufficient weight to arrest the progress of the and the second reading wasp m! P and r's 9 at
former bill he would not repeat them, and would pro- My. „ere time use, ilt
ceed at once to state the reasons ' why he thought the The Cin u Ports Bill -was read a titi'i, as aine nu/edit,'
house shouhl not proceed further with this measure. The Burial Ground (Scotland) I3it's fined for "-
The position that he should endeavour to establish waxconsidered,laand the third reading 'll
-or T.Th Fagged
that the legislative council by whom the bill was passed
next. ' NE ''.- bill
I
did not represent the colonists in a practical sense—that SPIRITS OF reams
-cxrLSOlg this
• star°,
the bill was not passed for the interests of the colonists, On the motion of Mr. ty f the fora/
but for certain ether interests—that the
constitution throurrh committee. third readin 0 tees 01
sent home for that house to enact was not the primary motion for the r , neg
setil
On lice n
IVatricelation a a e-
object of the bill - and that it was secondary to another went - the
Dates Repeal 0 . Won e oft .
and ulterior object, namely, to obtain', for a certain por• Bill -el nr reseed its pos d ties seer
Lion of the colonists of New South Wales the absolute 1 GEnAL- r-e- - teirP 11
D
fir, S. FITZ eat of tne s
possession and ownership of immense tracts of land, He Aextend and
the reP of the
College, a
clause exten Ines degrees noSe
begged to call attention to circumstances that had takenmatriculations an° -.egg Or tee
place with respect to the occupancy of crown lands sub-introduced•
f the EXCHEQu of
eequent to the year 1844, and to the demand for leases should be
CHANCEL
o .1]
' The f the bi • The question e
quests Wse,'
which had been made by persons possessed of large nement o
s a separate oft be f VI,
ins establishments. He informed the house that gran-
the postpe
of ~.,üblin was
d urnment ..9 s
a cry University " oved the ajo
blin tree
was raised iu their behalf, and hy the feeling which was -Mr. MAGUIR-- ni -University of nti tbB
evoked under the impression that the Government were as he did.not think the .0
he oral
0 i
ill-treating them they succeeded in taking from their treated. urge 'BR •ei
4LD again J. 013 etiv
fellow-colonists
• . the greater part of the waste lands of the Mr. S. FIT &a . 1 mr, sleg •03e
s did a sohel'd ti
colony. In 1847 an ant was passed giving those gentle- University of Dubiin, n, went was t d 3shims
men certain rights for life in those lands, and the right The motion for adjoure
.1_
le
ea
the ln 1w• r oa
also to purchase the land •of which they obtained leases ; without a division, and
their
but the ownerships thus creeted were of a very amb' igu- and passed. Bill was read a _ a ,
rea
our character, and the question as to whether the lease The Woolmer Forest . I was
roe
0/) a oMer
should be turned into an absolute pwnership of the soil, d '
passe . d Fund (10 000,00 •tted
or degenerate into a tenantry at will, entirely depended The Consolidate r comm'
a t"
nd ordered to be c
f zbli
1 upon the assistance they could give to the Home Govern- second time, a ,
ea ° ' clr•
ment. In 1850, the noble lord the member for London (this day). ' then dispos dela
brought in a bill to give the Australian coloniets a con- The other orders were
f° /iv°
Ene- I ouse adjourned at twenty minutes
stitution, and he (Mr. Lowe), having then arrived •' in - ,
land, suggested that those individuals should be rep:o-
- in the colonial legislature. The act did not give
the power of making the new council to the then exist-
ing legislature, but it empowered .the then legislative
council to pass a new electoral act for the new council.
To that circumstance he traced the evils with which they
would have to deal on that night. He (Mr. Lowe) was,
as he had already said, the person who recommended
that those squatters should have representatives ; but he
thought, at the same time, that if they got three mem-
bers out of 36 representatives, they would he adequately
represented ; whereas the legislative council gave them
eight members. The rest of the representation was con-
ceived in the same spirit, and such an enormous pre-
ponderance was given to the pastoral districts that, it
was quite clear they were completely paramount in the
legislature.' (Hear.) The legislature which had created
the council agreed to what was called a petition and
remonstrance, which was sent to the Home Government,
and in it they said that, in order that her Majesty's
Government might have no excuse for a continuation
of abuses they were prepared to surrender the whole of
the revenue, territorial and 'general, on the establish-
went of a courseil similar to that of Canada. The word
" Canada" in that document was made the groundwork
for fixing upon them this constitution, but.several
favouof the
gentlemen who voted for the proposition
were in t
of an electoral upper chamber. He would now chine_ o
the election of the constituent body hose con!lti i tut!on
they were discussing that night. The old counci
laving
ceased to exist, the new one came to he elected, and it
be ob-
was to be expected that care and attention would
but there was nothing of the
served in the proceedings ;, ~
kind. He could state on the authority
the
gentleman
who had mentioned the fact to him, that question of
an elected or nominated upper house was never men-
tioned by the candidates exceptittoinee. Those who ap-
the duties they
peered as candidates knew so I of
and the peopleknew so little about
had undertaken,
the matter, in consequen
ce of the recent change,
that
tin the, form of of govern-
no appeal was made respec
g
ment the council was to establish. The council,
appointed a committee • •
having been elected, • in the year
1853 to consider this question of a constitution, and on
the 28th of July they presented a report, which was laid
before the house in a blue book. The act of establishing
a constitution passed in face of numerous petitions against
it, agreed to at public meetings. All the elections, with
but a single exception or so, were in favour of the elec-
tive council. Sir William Denison's answer to the ad-
dress presented by the colonists for a dissolution of the
council shortly after his arrival, clearly-showed that he
regarded the public opinion of the colony as being decid-
edly adverse to the bill, and in favour of the elective
principle. The deputation which waited upon the noble
lord the other day, respectably coroposed as it was, con-

---".----7-------- -
BIRTIIS. 0101 th
OF A SON. , 01°°° oisb
On the ..14fh inst., at Sou_thsanapton•streelowigho
the wife of j!. J. Harrison., E
Booana,tmhersl.3
jthaLsst.K, a.tF"Arryi.okhaqta. -terrace, Ifiof
loutt ysio•
On the 13th inst.,, en Cernhill, the Wife covitdeareP
ford, Esq.the wife of 101:1
On the 12th inst., at ICO7,
Esq. tli°
OF A DAUM...ITER. onsiootht
~.

On the 13th inst., at 3, Staintorr-place, - 5.
oDickson,iirutglssitt.n[a,.aattd igilto, ISt°. .(r
BEBaeyBr:nr
ah.t:o
nn
dilsoefoy :it
vsho:: f P's
Kent. wife 0
,1 the w
3ctkh.inst at St. George's, fitin°llfarth.
Guards,j%voiOOohrlinn olt:lt'h hheeffeeat
1c01.123NG: hie. fietit''
MARRIED.
Colonel Charles Townsend Wilson,late 0 , 03
gasua:e'l'i, rs'l_,l
Vere, Esq.
ins au'
°rift kod, -"' gout,4f,ijcP
On the 12th inst Hall, and B eChurch to YtO
both Ed ~ at St. Barnaba bed), f pli
ward Russell, Esq. of South Laresq., 0
eldes't daughter of the late iVm. Sin:W:loos, -Pc
Lambeth and the Inner Temple, NV. P. 106
On the 12th lust r Bath, tbe °
shall, E ~ at Corston, near soona. toy.*
sq.. Bengal Artillery, to Mall. of Ors 01
daughter of the Rev. G. P. Simpson, vica_rr c boo. p
On the 13th inst., at Wpvvell, N'orfolk.l3-r't 0.10
akar, of London, to Louisa, third dau.ghter 0,
Esq., Wisbech. lotta
D I E D. Cbtl„c 00
. q tibret p-
On the 11th inst., at 14, Cambridg° - q.. Joho t
Katherine, daughter of Vice-Admiral Si' Oil
Dart., of Cadwell, Torglyty, Devon, ~, tbe,,,ijeff
On the 11th inst., atNonsuch Park, 1a,,,e ;3- °it:-
1)1:1
in Sure.t:i7 f us'
Eon. Lady Frances Selina Calder, wife of Fen'
Bart. stilly
wick Skrimshire, Esq., 31. D.. aged 80. F. C. De di
On the Bth inst., at the Hague, Wal; -`' and psi
On the 11th inst., at past Nall, Peterbor.-ogb',
ex,
eldest son of the late Major General Joon 00'
mima Bentinck, aged 68.
vett,
At Heathfield House, Sussex, Mr. George 000,
BlOoins,tpheartl2.,thagiendst6.,2,.at Cockfield Nall, Yoford,it
too
65. )t
I,°llcl°l3'
On the 13th inst., at 50, Burton-crescen:,
__od 40.
Layton, Esq.., formerly of Great Yarmouth, rb
--'.....
__— - - firlai
V 0
MOO ' lifoi
LONDON : Printed and Pans:Lel by M Isio.
Strani, in the Precinct of the Savoy,
of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The by
ipoffit: cooof
Middlesex, Friday, Juno 16, 18.0.