The National Register.
London, England, 1823-02-24 00:00:00

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7i!':

THE NATIONAI AEGL

Mr. HUTCHINSON supported the original motion. He
had never seen any good result from the appointment of com-
mittees of inquiry—they generally reported, and their reputts
ended in nothing.
The gallery was then cleared, and Mr. Macdonald's amend-
ment w..s negatived without a division.
The house then divided on Mr. Hume's motion. For the
motion. 73-. Against 14200—Majority. 127.
The other eructs were disposed of, and the house adjourned at
eleven o'clock.

THURSDAY, FLO. 20.
Mr. Brown, Warden of the Fleet, presented returns of the
number of Prisoners committed to the Fleet Prison, pursuant
to previous order.
The Thames Navigation annual accounts were presented.
Various petitions agaiust the Insolvent Debtors' Act were
presented from Leominster, Huddersfield, Beverley, Black
hum Sc.
Mr. H. DAVIS presented a petition from St. Stephen's,
Bristol, praying for the repeal of the House and Window Tax.
Mr. Alderman WOOD moved for returns of the persons
discharged from the King's Bench, Fleet, sod oilier prisons,
within the bilk of mortality, during the last four years, and
the sums for which they were discharged.—Ordered.
Lord C. MANNERS presented a petition from Linton, Cam-
bridgeshire, complaining of Agricultural Distress, hot et the
sumo lime expressing perfect reliance out the wisdom of that
Ilouse as now constituted. Such reliance had induced the pe-
titioners to abstain from attending the meeting at Cambridge.
Ordered in lie on the table.

Mr. HUTCHINSON presented • petition from Upper and
Lower (irmoude, County of Tipperary, praying for au alters-
, lion of the coroners' Act of last Session.
Mr. GENE l' (Wilts) ob d, that the Turnpike Act had
been much misunderstood, and presented petitions front two
places in Wiltshire, praying for an alteration of snob act.
Ordered to be printed.
Lord DUNCAN NON presented petitions front Walton, com-
plaining of the Hawkers and Pedlars', and of the Insolvent
Debtors' Act.—Ordered to he printed.
Mr. MAXWELL presented abetition from Renfrew, com-
plaining of Agricultural Distress.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE expressed his approbation of the pe-
tition, and said the Agrieultnrists required and were entitled
to relief. It went to the point in issue ; •arious classes were
set against each other ; and be trusted the petition would be
read by the whole House. Uiiliout respect to the question
of agriculture, he could not but think that the Ministers would
yet see the necessity of doing something for those interests.
Lord A. HAMILTON also spoke of the extent of the evil,
and linked, if the present state of agriculture continued, who •
ther there was any chance of avoiding the extirpation of the
lower orders of the farming interests.—Petition ordered to be
printed.
Mr. BROUGHAM asked whether there was any truth in
the alarming rumour that was prevalent here and in France,
that the Brest Fleet had sailed with sealed orders t

Sir G.CIAARK replied, that Po intimation on such subject
Ind reached the Admiralty.
Mr. BROUGHAM said he was glad to hear thus mach. He
bad called the rumour alarming, because it would hare been a
circumstance calculated to interrupt the peace of the world ;
it was not alarming as elected this country, for England,
thank God ! bad nothing to fear from the sailing or the Brest
fleet.

Lord A. HAMILTON asked whether there wu any thing in
point of time, whether there was any thing in the circum-
stances, to prevent hiw from agitntsug the question of Mr.
Bowring's Imprisonment.
Mr. CANNING replied, that in point of time, there was no
objection ; it would be for the noble Lord to eiereive his dis-
cretion whether other circumstances would warrant the agita-
tion of any such question at the present moment.

PARLIAMENT/INY RETUalvs.—Lord J. RUSSELL rose to
more for a Committee to ascertain what were the Charters, Zee-
pursuant to which Members were relented ; and he was sur-
prised to lean; that such motion was to be resisted. Other
similar motions had been agreed to, and why was this to be
opposed? Lord A. Hamilton had granted him • list of the voters
of Scotland ; Mr. Bennett had procured the returns of tire
Members who held offices ; and in the Lords there bad been
a Committee respecting the dignity of a Peer. Lord Redas-
dale, he believed, bad drawn up the reports, which were re-
markable for every thing bat their soeuraey.—(A inush.)—As
so much had been divulged, why was be to be refused ! The
information he required by this motleys was generally knows ;
but he wished it to be known more accurately. Injurious re-
ports were calculated to affect the obaraeter of the House;
and it was requisite to show how far the motion for Reform was
or was not warranted. 'Were they afraid that the composition
of the House should he known I—(Hear.)—Heretofore the
opponents of Reform had taken higher posed ; but he felt as-
sured that he should have the support of every independent
man in the House.—(Hear, hear.)—He concluded with mov-
ing for a Select Committee.
Mr. CANNING said, in opposing this Motion, he should
not be drawn into the larger question. He was against it, be-
cause, if it were acquiesced in, it would be inferred that su
much progress had been made io Reform. The motion would
be most tyrannies! and arbitrary. What right had they to call
for the Charters of offending Corporations ? 1 here had been
nothing like it since the reign of James (I. when the Charters
were called in and examined.—Did they recollect, that in those
Charters much property depended ; and did they want to give
Attorneys, who might have no occupation, and who bad a de-
sire to enquiry', some occupation.
Lord J. RUSSELL did not desire the production of the
Charters.
Mr. CANNING said, without the Charters, he did not see
how accurate information could be obtained. As to the Bo-
roughs, Old Sarum, &c. he was ready to admit all the Noble
Lord wished to lissome ; and continuing to hold the same opi-
nions on the subject of Parliamentary Reform, be was prepared
to maintain, that the House, as constituted, was best suited
to the pnrposes for which it existed : the cloinAit could not be
effected without occasioning dangers w Well it is nut worth while
to run. The close boroughs were admitted—the small number
of the electors were admitted , therefore, as far as admissies
and concession went, the Noble Lord had all that he Gould
require. Tire question could not be eraarted without raising
enquiries respecting Charters, which would be prejudieinL
Under all the circumstances, he must resist the motion'.
Mr. ABERCROMBY said, that the opposition which hd
been urged, imaginary as it was, bad hardly surprised Ida.
The first objection was imaginary ; the second was much elt•
aggerated. It was imaginary to suppose that the people weed,'
infer by the grantinl of this motion, that the question of R.•
form Was about to be eotertained by that House. They ball
got like relent* respecting Scotland--but bed airy body thence
in't'erred that the Reform of Scotland, its burghs, &c. WAS
nearer at Land. If the ppblic would draw such interim°,
Imposing the motion to he granted, it wee proof, which
6.2lleved to he the case, that there wan a predisposition

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to

whin did not nisi before, to entertain the question of Ream.
It was Nether true, that if the wain. were granteds.:4l might
laduce many to look at the question of Rforen is eferay that
they bad before rieded motion could be easily ad-
duced. If the motion were granted, however, he daunted not
that it would essentially serve the ultimate question of Itelorin
—(I/ear,)—and if the motion were refused, would nut every
man ask himself—Whist I are the House of COIIIIUOIIII en aftaid
of having their composition known, that they refuse eveu such
preliminary enquiry t—( Cheers.)
Mr. PEEL said, that the'arguineists of Lis right host. friend
bad nut been weakened. If en argument were to he founded
on the small nniubers, supposing the allegations were conceded,
what more could be required ? As to the precedent, there was
none. What similar Committee had been required, respecting •
Scotland 1—( Hern-.)—The motive world prejudice that dis-
cussion of the Reform question which was about to take place.
Lord .1. RUSSELL said, lie via. kept to precedeet for Soot-
land " Returns," not a Committee were required ; but if the
Government would consent to Returns, he would abandon his
motion furs Committer.--(Hear, hear.)
Mr. PEEL replied. that when the Returns were moved fur.
he should be prepared to express Isis opinion of it.
Mr. CREEVEY spoke in throne of the motion, conlendieg
that the House had just as much right to the Returns as to the
Population Returns. Because the Minister chose to express
Isis opinion against it, tlic House were not to have the ininium-
tiuo ; but would not that be an estraordinary reason far re-
fusing the motion? Because the Minister chose to say, he
would concede this information or that fact, were the House to
Le contented without more specific informatioa ? Such informa-
tion would be most useful, and it was necessary, for sow the
boroughs were regularly bought slid sold in open day, and that
by peers. The philosophical member—(e bugle)—for Bodmin
(Mr. D. Gilbert) bad cosy the other day—he spoke from (i.e
Papers—handed over • borough of freemen to a noble peer,
and that peer went down to take posses/in of them as he
would of his estate.—(hear and Inaghter.)---He dined i
would not be creditable to the Hone to resist this motion.
Lord MILTON supported the 'lselin, essintaiaing that the
Re tight to be accompanied with amounts of the direet
taxation of the Boroughs.
The Gallery was then cleared for a di•ision--
Ayes 90—Noes 128--Majority against it 38.
The other orders of the day having beee disposed of, the
House adjourned.
FRIDAY, Mt. 21.
Col. Wdrre, for the County of Dublin, and three other
members, took the oaths and their seats.
Mr. Loaglands presented the anneal accounts of the India
Dock Company.
The Carnatio Commissioners Accounts were presented.
The required Returns from the Fleet, King's Bench, leo. of
person discharged from those prisons for debt. Ordered to
lie on the table.
This being the last day for receiving petition for private
bills, a good many were presented.
A new Writ was ordered for Riegate, in the room of 1. 8.
Cox, Esq. who bad accepted the Chiltern Haadreds' !Reward-

Sir E. KNATCHBULL, in presetting petitions, asked the
Chancellor of the Exchequer if he bad any objection to a com-
mittee of Enquiry, particularly into the difficulties of thi, bop
trader Those se/grilles were great.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER repilod,
he was not prepared to give an off-hand answer—that he did
not see the oecessity of such special investigation ; but that the
best course would be to move fur such a Committee, if itovere
deemed necessary.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL said, that if some relief were sot
afforded, however painful to himself, he should f ;el it his daty
to call the attention of the House to the subject. lis then
resettled several petitions from hop growers, &c. io Kent.
Mr. PRICE presented the Hereford Petition ;—it was moved
by Mr. Charlton which bad been carried—it was not that of
Mr. Cob',ett. Mr. Charlton's petition had been supported by
many of the customary friends of Ministers ; and he felt, wide
the petitioners, that it was requisite to do something for lb.
relief of the country, and of agriculture in particular. H.
bad no hesitation iu pronouncing this to be the petition of die
comity.
The petition was read at length.—Ordered to he printed.
Lord MILTON presented • petition from Sheileld fur the re •
peJ of the Insolvent Debtors' Act.
Lord I'OLKSTONE pre/ogled, pursuant to notice, a pethios
from a Mr. Thompson, which he considered so important that
he should move (Jr a Committee. The petitioner and his father
had been wine merchants, and bad realized considerable pro-
perty. In 1811 an estate was purchased in Hertfordshire le
die amount of 92,0001. paying down 5,0001. but the title being
objected to. the business went into Chancery, where it remain-
ed till 1819, the vesder in the Rican time receiving the rents.—
The decision was favourable to the vender, but the purchaser
had not then the means to pay. lie paid interest, in all about
18,0001. and though he could not get more than 20,0001. for it.
he was called on to follil the purchase. To do so would ruin
him, compelling the sale of estates, an the amount would be
73,0001. ; and yet the ruin would not be the consequence of any
fault of his own. The purchaser was not • rash speculator so.
cording to all be could learn, and what remedy could he afford-
ed he would not now stste.—Petition ordered lobe printed.
The lions. went into a Committee of Supply.
Sir J. OSBORN moved the Navy Estimates. He should
call fur 2.1,000 instead of 21,000 men ; the necessity fur such
increase was the additional se: vice in the West !edits, Medi-
terranean, &c. Ile rimed Um great of 25,000 men for the
Navy.
Mr. BROUGHAM dld not rise to object to the vote, indeed
he was surprised that the vote was not for a larger number of
stamen. lie said thus much on account or the alarming aspeet
of Foreign affairs. Ile knew that they were not precluded
front moving an additional number of men, should cireninstancee
equire it; but he was fearful 'cat Governments abroad might
inmr that they were now positively naming the number for the
year.

Mr. CANNING expressed hiciscknowledgments for the
manner in which the learned gentleman come fu. nerd. The
note no more limited the *LIN, et. than it !nulled the ciquirity
the couniry.--But ho win sore that mire (tom I would net
be desired. Discussion Could not do more good tin hit had
done. He felt assured of the resources of the country,
should circuses, . require them, especially so long as piddle
credit was maintsiaed.
Resolution agreed to.--Report on Monday.
THE BCDGET.
The House went into n Committee of Ways and Minos.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had
volontorily undertaken the office which be now tilled, coil
spoke in high terms of lime integrity and talent of his peed"- .
eessor. He should bare occasion for the indulgence of tbati
Committee, am: dochtleas lie should have it, He A 0.214 en.
( For eon/Mines /n ref pwr 112.)