The Sun.
London, England, 1855-05-02 00:00:00

v.ENING, MAY 2, 1855;

hear.) He (Mr. Henley) believed a great Inecrer ',se bad
taken place in the education of the people oL ,is coun-
try ; for it appeared by official returns the r ,umber of
children receiving education was, in 1818, one in 17
in 1830, it was one in 11 ; while, in 1851, it was one
in 81. (Hear, hear.) He believed, t'es en, if this
bill was passed it would, instead of advancing
rapidly in the right direction the, education
of the people, tend to retard and arrest; it. Having
referred to foreign countries, he should no w allude to
the state of our own country- The three chi of sources of
illustration he should refer to were crime, Irunkennesa,
and larceny. With regard to drunkenness eit appeared
by returns that in 1841, when the population amounted
to 15,900,000, in that year in all the town s of Eng-
land with above 10,000 inhabitants, the whole number
of persons charged with drunkenness were 7:1',268. In
1851, when the population was 17,900,000, or an in-
crease of 13 per cent., the number of cases of drunken-
ness was 70,000. With regard to cases of la nceny and
other criminals the effects were equally favourable.
On the ground of morality, the number of illegitimate
births in 1845 was one in 7 and a small fraction ; while
in 1352 it was G and a large fraction. The decrease was
not large, still it showed the steps were all in
the right direction ; end it must also be borne in
mind that there had been a great relaxation in the
severity of our criminal law during the last twenty years.
(Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman next referred
to our army, who had borne the extremity of sickness
and privation with but one thought, that of doing their
duty— (hear)—and he could not think that the system
which produced such fruits could he a bad system.
(Hear.) He objected to this bill because it would be a
tax upon real property. It would entail a burden of
2,000,0001. and over ; and, besides that, for every shil-
ling that would be expended otC.:, of that source, the Go-
vernment would have to contribute an equal amount.
If 2,000,0001. more were to be raised by Government it
must be done by increased taxation, and that must be
done, as the fairest means, by an increased income tax,
which would entail another half of the burden on real
property ; or, in other words, real property would have
to pay 3,000,0001. out of the 4,000,0001. contemplated
by the bill. (Hear, hear.) He believed also this bill
would cause greater heart-burnings than at present
existed with re-peat to church rates, and that was an-
other reason why he objected to it. The right hon. gen-
tleman then entered into an analysis of the various de-
tails and machinery of the bill, and he contended that
though the bill professed to give a religious instruction
it would do so in came only, and not in reality ; and
that, in point of fact, as far as regarded relit ions educa-
tion the bill would be wholly inoperative. (Hear, hear.)
After some further criticisms on the bill, the right hon.
gentleman concluded by moving that the bill be read a
second time that day six months. (Hear.)
Mr. R. PHILLIMORE, in seconding the amend-
ment, gave the right hon. baronet who had brought for-
ward the motion on national education credit for being
actuated by no party or selfish motive ; on the contrary,
he bad had, doubtless, to contend with a great number
of party difficulties. Ho (Mr. Phillimore) trusted the
right hon. gentleman would not on that account con-
sider any remarks he might have to make in op-
posing the motion as being of a personal nature.
The ground on which he (Mr. Phillimore) opposed the
scheme proposed by the right hon. baronet, was that he
considered it was fraught with all that mischief which
had been so eloquently pointed out by the hon. member
for Buckinghamshire. He conscientiously believed that
the effect of the measure would be to disestablish the
Church of England as the recognised medium of reli-
gious education. (Hear, hear.) The only way in
which the right honourable gentleman proposed to
provide for religious teaching was by the reading of
the Scriptures in the schools ; and this experiment
had been found to be a complete failure in America. For
these reasons, in addition to the arguments of the hon.
member for Buckinghamshire, he should give his most
strenuous opposition to the measure of the right hon.
baronet in every stage of its progress.
Mr. MILES lamented that his hon. friend the mem-
ber for Oxfordshire should have differed from the right
lion, baronet who had brought forward the motion be-
fore the house ; but he thought that the distinctions which
were drawn by the hon. member for Oxfordshire were
essentially fallacious. If he (Mr. Miles) did not think
the bill before the house was founded upon a religious
basis no power on earth could have induced him to sup-
port it ; for he could not but admit the denominational
system in this country had produced great effects as
regarded education ; and after what the hon. member
for Oxfordshire bad said on drawing his deductions from
the years 1818, 1833, and 1851, it must be at once
more than evident that the denominational sys•
tem alone had unquestionably produced a great
and immense addition to the education of the people.
(Hear.) He thought that this accession, however
great, was not sufficient to the wants of the people, and
that it was necessary to adopt some other plan by which ,
education might he still further extended. The only
question was, were these efforts now made sufficient for
the educational requirements of the country ? If so, it
was not by any means advisable to intermeddle with
these voluntary exertions. If not, and if the coun-
try lacked facilities of education, it became
the duty of the house seriously to consider how

it could afford it, without infrineing to any extent
upon the existing schools. (Hear, hear.) This he be-
lieved to be exactly the principle on which the right
hon. baronet had founded his measure. (Hear, hear.)
The hoc. member then proceedei to reply to the argu-
ments contained in the speech of the hon. member for
Oxfordshire. He observed that it struck him, whilst
that honourable getitleinae was referring t► the sta-
tistics of education iii Austria as being in advance
of this country, that there was less criminality
ar_d inure in,,rality in this country than was the case in
Austria. Coining next to the principle of the measure pro-
posed by the right lion. member for Droitwich, he re-
marked that it was quite absurd to talk of mere secular
teaching ; and inasmuch as he believed that the best
means of meeting the educational requirements of the
present day were to be found in the right hon. baronet's
measure, it should have his most cordial and entire
support. He ►maintained that if we took Biblical
education as the foundation of the system, that in due
time they should have the whole of the population im-
bued with the principles of religious education ; and he
firmly believed, not Withstanding all that bad been stated
to the contrary, that little by little the measure would
be found to operate beneficially without leaving the
country a prey to those terrors which the imagination of
the hon. member for Oxfordshire had conjured up. Did
the hon. member suppose, because they adopted that
system, all other schools were bound to be put
down, or did he suppose that the sixpenny rate would
be levied all over the country ? He (Mr. Miles) never
heard of anything so preposterous. Again, if the hon.
gentleman called to mind the large amounts which crime
and pauperism in this country cost us annually, he would
perhaps be less earnest in his opposition to a scheme
which had f,,r its object the diminution by legitimate
means of these prolific sources of national expenditure.
Passing on to refer to the two other educational schemes
before the house, (those of Lord J. Russell and Mr. M.
Gibson) he expressed a hope that the bill before the
house would not be condemned ; but lie trusted that all
the bills would be sent to the consideration of a com-
mittee upstairs, a committee composed of men who had
given attention to the subject, aid he was. not
without hope that, after a short discussion, and:after
a careful examination of the different clauses, i❑ each an
amalgamation might be effected, or at all events that
out of them some comprehensive bill which Might Meet
with generil support might be constructed. (Hear.)
Mr. DILLWYN (a ❑ew member) opposed the motion
on the ground that in parishes where religious creeds
were nearly balanced it would give rise to a sectarian
dissension of a most disagreeable character, whilst in
places where the majority of the inhabitants. were
Churchmen or Dissenters the minority would go with-
out any education whatever.
Mr. BYNG, in the course of an animated address, said
that he should give the measure of the right hon. baronet
his cordial support reserving for a future opportunity any
opposition he might entertain to some of its details. He
gave his support to it as an important step towards sup-
plying
those educational wants and omissions which
were now beginning to be so generally recognised.
(Hear, hear.) .
Mr. ADDERLEY suggested the adjournment of the
debate.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said that considering that her
Majesty's Ministers were necessarily absent he
Guvernment for an early
dirastscyinia
would consent to the adjournment of the house.
He should, therefore, place the motion for re-
suming the debate on the paper for to-morrow ;
itaiinidtowbarsinogrdietrfeodrwtaorbd.o
not, however, in the hope of bringing it on then, but in
order that he might make someuas sni
doM iarrangementnir.wmhiac withchaLrtonred y :Ttaotahoske,
After a few words from Mr. Cowpan,
The debate was adjourned accordingly.
SPIRITS (IRELAND) ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
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GREENWICH ITOSPtslimTncoAen
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1854,
or private account ; and of the name of the ship or
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the same.
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CUSTOMS AND EXCISE DUTIES.
On the motion of Mr. MACARTNEY a return was
ordered of all duties paid upon spirits, tea, sugar, and
coffee, in London, Liverpool, Bristol, null, Glasgow,
Leith, Dublin, Belfast, and Cork, for 14 clays previous
and up to six o'clock on the 20th day of April, when the
Chancellor of the Exchequer placed his resolutions for
imposing additional duties on those several articles,
such return to set forth the quantities, with the amount
of duties paid by each party, and the date of every such
payment ; a,n l similo.r..„returns fur the corresponding
periods in the years 185., and 1804.
Some other business on the paper having been dis-
posed of, the house adjourned shortly before 6 o'clock.

ARMY" B FORE SEBASTOPOL CO3l-
- TTER-(TH IS DAY.)

The committee re-assembled this morning at the usual
hour.

Mr. Grant, late Comptroller of the Victualling and
Transport Departments, was the first witness called, and
was examined by Lord Seymour.
He stated that he had held the latter of the above-men-
tioned offices until the formation of the transport board,
having retained it up to that time since the year 1851.
He had been in the service of the admiralty for 40
years. He then proceeded to point out the mode in
which tenders were received and examined by the vic-
tualling department. When the tenders were opened i
IA the board-room, the samples sent in were
n.

spected, and the best were selected without any
consideration as to the lowness of the terms
proposed, the quality of the goods being taken
as the criterion of preference. After the samples
had been selected they were sealed up by the proper
officers and were afterwards conirared with the bulk.
It was not the duty of any particular person to examine
the salt provisions. The mode was to examine one or
two casks, and if found to be sweet the whole cargo was
retained ; but if it was discovered on inspection of one
or two casks that the contents were in the slightest de-
gree tainted, the whole was condemned and rejected.
Of all the supplies forwarded by the victualling depart.
ment to the army in the Crimea, he had never received
a single complaint. If a complaint had been made to
any person in authority at home, he must have heard of
it. This remark applied to the provisions. Tne first
supply of port wine sent out, however, was complained
of. The quantity consisted of 100 dozens.
Mr. Layard—Can you state to the committee what
quantities of provisions you sent out to the Crimea?
The witness replied that he could, and proceeded to
read an account of the various items of the provisions
supplied to the army since the 26th April, 1854.
The principal of them were :—Sait beef 4,000,000
lbs., salt pork 5,000,000 lbs., roasted coffee
216,000 lbs., raw coffee 2,139 lbs., sugar
1,250,000 lbs., rice 7,000 lbs., port wine 2,400 dozens,
brandy 971 gallons, sago 6,732 lbs., oatmeal 1,4:14 lbs.,
Scotch barley 16,479 lbs., preserved beef 470 tons, dried
♦egetables 1,650,000 lbs., lemon juice 46,943 lbs.
By Lord Seymour—The port wine he referred to as
having been complained of was landed, he believed, at
Varna. The medical officers found fault with it, and it
was returned home. He at once sent down to the Cap-
tain Superintendent at Deptford, who reported to him
in reply that the wine was good. That officer had the
sole control and authority in purchasing wine, and be
stated in the report in question that the hun-
dred dozens complained of was "sound and
fruity," and he could not account for the
cause of its condemnation. No wine was purchases!,
until a sample of it had been submitted to Dr. And•sew
Smith. The amount paid for the wine was not less than
255. without the "drawback." As much as 403 per
dozen had been paid for it, but then it should be remem-
bered that the wine was good and old. Before the ship-
ment of any supplies proper care was taken to ascertain
that the quantity agreed with the sample and contract.
The master of the vessel required a receipt for the goods
and & certificate that they had been put on board, both
of which documents were transmitted to the Admiralty,
and afterwards to him (witness). Since the war it had
been found requisite to appoint a store-receiver at Ply-
mouth and Deptford, and those officers were responsible
for all tho expenditure relative to the contracts for pro-
visions. He constantly kept the Minister for War in-
formed what contracts had been entered into, and what
skips were employed to carry them to the East.
The witness then went on to state, in reply to a question
from Lord Seymour, that when the goods had been
shipped and the receipts had been forwarded to the Ad-
miralty by the master of the vessel as ha had described,
the Admiralty considered that their duty regarding the
shipment of those goods was at an end ; but they took
care not to pay the freight until they had received an
official intimation that the goods had been delivered
safely, and in good condition. The master of the vessel
was responsible for the security of the goods whilst they
were under his care. Some time might elapse before the
consignee informed the Admiralty that he had received
the goods sent out, and in the meanwhile the Admiralty
would remain in perfect ignorance whether they had
been received or not at their destination.
By Captain Gladstone—The coffee sent out in a raw
state was at the request of Commissary-General Filder,
who told him that it was intended as a kind of extra ra-
tion for the troops, and that it might be necessary to
convey it into the interior of the country. Several
coffee mills were also sent out at the same time. Only
one supply of preserved meats had been sent out to the
Crimea.
Captain Gladstone—How was that ?
Witness—After the experience which the Government
had had of preserved meats, and the roguery to which it
had been subjected by some contractors, they thought it
advisable to introduce a very stringent regulation in the
contract, which was that no goods should be held to be
received until they were delivered in the Crimea. The
Government required that a person should be sent out
with the goods on the part of the contractor, and if
on examinng the casks at their destination the contents
were found to be in the slightest degree tainted or un-
wholesome they should be condemned, and the whole
cargo rejected. Accordingly no con tractor could be
found to receive this regulation in the contract.
By Mr. Layard—He did not think it was possible for
any person to have access to his samples for tenders
after they were sent in so as to be enabled to change
them.

Mr. Layard—Are you aware that an impression has
got about amongst the public, to the effect that these
samples have been tampered with in some way or other ?
Witness—l cannot say that lam aware of any such
impression. At all events there are to my knowledge
no grounds whatever for it.
Examination continued.—So far as he knew, none of
the samples had ever been tampered with or changed
after they were sent in.

The witness afterwards stated, in reply to Mr. Drum-
mond, that the articles sent to the Crimea were of the
very best description, including the forage and hay.
This Drought his examination to a close.
Sir Hew itoss was next called, and was examined by
the Chairman. He stated that he was Lieutenant-
General of the Ordnance, and had performed the duties
previously discharged by Lord Raglan as Master-General
of the Ordnance since his lordship had been absent in
the East. He was appointed on the Gth May. The
whole of the engineers and artillery were under his
management.

By Mr. Layard—He was the only artillery officer at
the Board,. though the board bad the directio❑ of the
artillery. He had received no orders or instructions
from Lord Raglan since he had been in the Crimea. No
change had been introduced into the organi:ation of the
artillery since the Peninsular war. The only complaint
that had been made to him in connection with the artil.
lery was, that some of the fasces bad been found
Ineffective.

In reply to General Peel, the witness said that the
Master-General of the Ordnance was always a military
man. Nearly the whole of the powers of Master-
General were confided t,) him ; and the absence of
Lord Raglan did not at all affect the exercise of his
functions.

By the Chairman—With regard to the gunpowder
used by the artillery, he thought the board ought to be
acquainted with its manufacture and properties ; but it
was not their duty to inspect that portion of the depart-
ments ; that was left to a committee of officers specially
appointed for the purpose.
By Lord Seymour—The artillery were very well
taken care of in the Crimea ; in fact, much better than
was the case with the rest of the troops, because their
supplies were furnished by the Ordnance.
By Mr. Lay.,rd—lle thought the siege train sent out
was properly manned and fully efficient—indeed men were
sent out witli it when necessary. He had no doubt the
wen were much overworked.
Sir Thomas Hastings, Comptroller of Stores, was next
called, and was examined by Lord Seymour. It was
his duty to superintend under the Board of Ordnance
the fitting out of ships with naval ordnance, as well as
supplying the ordnance wants of the army. The case of
supplying great-coats and boots and shoes to the troops
also devolved upon his department. In the course of
la-t summer he made application to the board for the
purchase of warm clothing for the army, and he made
all the necessary arrangements for procuring it.
The committse adjourned about four o'clock until to-
morrow.

OFFICIAL DESPATCHES FROM FIELD-
MARSHAL LORD .RAGLAN.

( From a supplement to Tuesda'y's Gazette.)
WAR DEPARTMENT, MAY 2.
Lord Panmure has this day received two despatches
and their enclosures, of which the following are copies,
addressed to his lordship by Field-Marshal the Lord
Raglan, G.C.B.

Before Sebastopol, April 17.
My Lord,—l have the honour to transmit for your
lordship's information a letter from the Inspector-
General of Hospitals expressing his satisfaction in being
able to report that the sanitary condition of the army
continues gradually to improve and the mortality from
disease to diminish.—l have, &c.,

The Lord Panmure, &c.

RAGLAN.

Enclosure.
Before Sebastopol) April 17, 1355.
My Lord,—lt is satisfactory to be able to say that
the sanitary condition of the army continues gradually
to improve, and the mortality from disease to decrease.
T.ast week the ratio of admissions to strength was
3.95 per cent. ; this week it has been 3.52.
Last week the ratio of deaths to strength was 0.35 ;
this week it has been 0.33.
This decrease may appear small to your lordship, but
it must be borne in mind that 106 of the admissions, and
13 of the deaths, were the result of accidents in the
trenches ; besides which three officers and 30 men were
killed who have not been included in the above state-
ment of casualties.
Fevers and bowel complaints dontinue to be'the pre-
vailing diseases amongst the troops, but in both there
has been an evident decrease of admissions as well as
deaths.
In the 79th Regiment, however, there has been an
increase of 19 cases of Lever during the week, and the
mortality from the same disease has exceeded that of the
preceding week by two. Last week the deaths from
fever were 7, this week they have been 9. It is in con-
templation to move the regiment a short distance from
where it is at present encamped, as far, I ands rstand, as
the defence of the post will admit of, atni I think good
will result from it ; but if it coti'd be moved up to the
ground where the (i3d Regiment is stationed still greater
advantaLres mi-dit be expected.
In the 93,1 Highlanders the fever cases have become.e
milder, and the mortality from that cause has decreased
from 4, which it was last week, to 1.
In the 41st and 95th Reg-mints, the two
regi-
ment', which were sufferingmo,s,yeefk ; rolninthe 41st from
fever, other
in;i...
tality has decreased during the
,
5 to 2, and in the 95th frointSto 3.
There has been a decrease in allttnhebnorydeintnarnynftoinremtsqpnf
bowel complaints; butregret
fatal cases of cholera, one in the Artillery, and the other
in the 7th Fusiliers.
These were. both brought up from the trenches, and
both died after
a few hours illness. No other cases
have .occurred, and, from the general diminution of
bowel affections, I trust they will prove accidental.
The cavalry continue to enjoy good health, and