The Sun.
London, England, 1855-02-20 00:00:00

TIRE LONDOK TUESDAY EVENINGS PXBRITARY 20, 13115,

was very doubtful whether the Governalent.would be able
to obtain such a force. Then large contracts were to have
been made in Asia Minor. Bat what had been done ?
The very man who had been pointed out as quali-
fied to enter into such contracts, stated that he
had offered them months ago, but that they had
been refused, and that he then offered them to
the French Government, by which Government they were
accepted, and he was now engaged in buying up all the
cattle in Asia Minor for France. (Hear, hear.) Then
again, instead of employing the most useful persons for
purposes of conveyance and labour, the Turks had been em-
ployed and treated in the worst possible manner. Such
being the past policy of those who composed the new Go-
vernment, it was necessary to inquire on what ground
they could bo supported. If the committee moved for by
the hon. and learned member for Sheffield should be
be iestly worked, it must to a certain extent prove injurious
to the carrying on of public affairs, and more especially so
if the conduct of the members of the Administration
should be canvassed ; for in that case Parliament would ,
be sitting in judgment on the members of the present Ad-
ministration.
ministration. There was only one ground on which hon.
members could have justified the rejection of the motion
for the appointment of the committee. It was this, that
they had before them new men, and that such a programme
had been prosentel as to insure the support of the coun-
try. On these grounds many bon_ members would have
voted for the Government. But how could they do so,
when the appointment of the committee was placed on the
!woo footing as it was some days ago ? Was there anything
in the programme which justified confidence in the Minis-
ters? The noble lord did not propose to go to the bottom
of any existing wrong, or to recall any body ; he only pro-
posed a series of commissions. Surely the house had facts
enough before it without farther inquiry. At the head of
the commissariat there was a gentleman 70 years of age;
and that commissariat was in such a condition that our
men had been starved. Were not these facts sufficient to
warrant the recall of the head of the department without
further inquiry ? What had been done with regard to the
medical staff ? Nearly three months ago a commission was
sent out to inquire into its state, yet the same state of
things existed. Dr. Home was at its head, and Mr. Law-
son, instead of being removed from his post, had been sent
to Scutari, where he was put at the head of the hospital,
and was thence removed to Rhodes. (Hear.) Nothing
had been gained by that. He believed that no man pos-
sessed greater or more eminent abilities than Sir John Mac-
neill, who was going on this duty, because he believed it
to be a sacred duty to do so ; but he was no longer a young
man, and his health was so weak that he had hitherto been
obliged to decline those high appointments to which his
abilities entitled him. It was physically impossible that
he should go into every hole and corner of the camp and
expose all existing evils. The result would be that, like
every other man employed either by the late or the pre-
sent Administration—for they were the same--(cheers)—
he would lose a well-earned reputation ; he would not be
able to cure the evils complained of, and the Government
would place upon his head the blame which ought to fall
upon others. What need was there for a commission upon
the transport service? At the head of that service was a
Capt. Christie, an old gentleman more than 70 years of
age, who could not leave his ship after dark without en-
dangering his life from catarrh, and who for five or six
days had been unable to land at I3slaklava. Was then
the state of that harbour to be wondered at? Were they
going to send out a commission to inquire how old Capt.
Christie was, and what was the state of Balakalava har-
bour ? There was not a boy in the streets who could not
tell them that. What was wanted was not commissions,
but men. The country was sick of commissions. He
knew it had been said that men could not be found ; but
to say so was an insult to the common sense of the coun-
try. If the test of a man was that he should be above 70
years of age, should be a member of Brookes's, and should'
always vote for Government, it might be difficult to find
such a one who could carry on business properly; but do
not let him be told that in a country possessing such ma-
terial resources as ours, and in which such great works
were undertaken as ho saw accomplished in England, they
could not find a man to set in order Balaklava harbour, or
to put the army into a state of efficiency. (Cheers.) If
there was any difficulty, let the officers of the army ballot
for a commander; in the artillery he was sure there would
be but one name mentioned as the most competent. Why
then send out commissioners to inquire who was or was not
capable? Let them not send out despatches implying cen-
sure upon a man, and then, when asked if they had re-
called him, say that they had not, but had insulted and
censured him, so that he must come home. If a man
was incompetent, let him he recalled; and if he was not,
let the Ministers have the manliness to say in that house
that he was competent, and the country would support
them. (Cheers.) Such were all the proposals of the noble
lord's speech, with the exception of making Lord Raglan a
scavenger,antiTh sendingis ia s t
woaust
aG egnreoraatl iiisntpaskoen
.
Youtkoi nlook
of u head
afterhti
not go on a system of divided authority. If
hGeneral Simpson had been the head of a regularly orga-
nised staff, it would have been a different thing. Had
Lord Raglan
that consented twoatsh
ns
eaorrmapnegteemh
to n? If
t ? heHat!so, le t
the
ad-
mittedmembers of it be sent home. If the Government wanted

now. Thelakeseetned still, but let maths Government sail
upon it with a feeling of security. Unless something were
done to prevent it a storm would arise, and then not only
they but others might be shipwrecked. The people wished
to see whether they could not be goy nod by some one
new. They would not have the same party over and Over
again. (Hear, hear.) He had no doubt a Cavendish in
the Cabinet was of great importance; but the country
thought more of 20,000 lives than of a Cavendish in the
Cabinet. They wanted a thorough and complete reform.
If the noble lord had followed the wishes of the people of
England he would have had a Cabieet which might at
least have appealed to the House of Commons for support,
and he would not have hesitated, whether or not the com-
mittee which that house had voted should be appointed.
He (Mr. Layard) entreated the noble lord to reflect. He
believed that if ho took that line the country and the
house would support him, and he would save his own re-
putation and the honour and interests of this groat nation.
General PEEL s..id ho ual cot surprised at the general
indignation when he read such horrible accounts of the
state of the army, for the army was the property of the
country at large. A Secretary for War had been sacri-
ficed, and he did not understand why the whole Cabinet
had not followed. He (General Peel) voted against the
motion of the lion. member fur Sheffield; but it was not
that no evils existed, but that he had no confidence in a
coined ttee of the house as a tribunal to reform them, for it
was the worse they could have—unconstitutional and im-
practicable. Ho blamed the Government for having coin-
ineinted a great war with inadequate means. He said the
first fault in its management was in sending out too many
troops, without a corresponding force in the commissariat
and medical departments. It would have been better to have
sent only 10,000 or 15,000 at first, and to have restricted
the operations to what they could perform, instead of
sending every available man to rival the French. After
the battle of Alma the victorious armies should have made
the attack on Sebastopol, without giving the Russians
time for reinforcements. He did not oppose the enlist-
ment of foreigners, if absolutely necessary. He thought
our regimental officers and regimental system were
good ; and surely those men would make as good general
officers if the opportunity were afforded them. If they
were going to rival the warlike nations on the Continent
they must set about it in a different manner. He thought
every exertion ought to be made to carry on the war so as
to make a safe and honourable peace, and that once clone
the sooner the people resumed their peaceful pursuits the
better.
Lord PALMERSTON—I should be the last man to find
fault with any hon. member who should bring under the
notice of the house any part of our administrative system,
either at home or abroad, which he may think has failed
adequately to perform its functions, or any improvement
of which he may consider that system to be capable. But,
sir, I do protest against the language we have heard this
evening from the hon. member for Aylesbury—(cheers)—
who, while ho performs what he thinks a public duty in
pointing out old errors and instances of mismanagement in
regard to the army, must needs tell me that this country
has become the laughing-stock of Europe, and has thought
proper to mingle with his observations and comments a
deal of what I must call vulgar declamation against the
aristocracy of this country. (Cheers.) Sir, I lament as
much as the hon. member or any man the sufferings of our
brave army before Sebastopol. I admit, too, that those
sufferings have in part been aggravated by want of ar-
rangement and proper management ; but I must, in pass-
ing, say it is a great mistake to suppose that those suffer-
ings have been entirely confined to the British troops.
(Hear.) I speak not now of our brave allies ; but I know,
from good authority, that of the Russian army there are
not fewer than 35,000 men in hospital, sick and wounded,
in consequence of the campaign. (Hear.) I say the suffer-
ings of our bravo troops, however much they may have
been 7ncreased
,by want of arrangement and proper ma-
nagement, have arisen in a great degree from principal
causes which it was not in the power of any man to
control, considering the nature of the service in which
they have been engaged and the severity of the weather
to which they have been exposed. (Hear, hear.) But,
so far from this country standing lower in the estima-
tion of the world than it formerly did, when I look, sir,
at the matchless bravery of our troeps—whea I look to the
victories they have achieved—(cheers)—and when I look to
the share which the gentry and the aristocracy of England
have taken in those conflicts—(cheers}—instead of feeling
any shame for MY country, I feel proud of the events to
which the hon. gentleman has alluded, and which have
now become subjects of immortal renown. Talk to me of
the aristocracy of England ! Look at the glorious cavalry
charge at Balaklava—(cheers)—where the noblest and the
wealthiest of the land rode foremost, followed by heroic
men from the lower classes of the community, each rival-
ling the other, and where neither the peer who led nor the
troops who followed could be distinguished from one an-
other. (Loud cheers.) In that glorious band were the sons
of the gentry of England, at the head were the nobles of
the land; and, following them, wore the representatives of
the people of this country. (Hear, bear.) I say if any in-
stance could be required to show that all classes in this
country, from the highest to the lowest, share in common
the noblest qualities which dignify lean, I would appeal to
that gallant charge as an immortal proof of the glory of this
country. (Cheers.) The hon. member, I believe, has con-
sented to be a member of the committee proposed by my
hon. and learned friend the member for Sheffield. He will
of course vote for the appointment of that committee; but
what was the line of his argument ? Why, that we, for
sooth, were trifling with the interests of the country and
with the lives and stiffer-bogs of our soldiers by sending out
commissioners to the Crimea, with full powers to inquire
into and rectify, if possible, thel very abuses and want of
arrangement of which he complains. (Hear, hear,) The
hon. gentleman proposes, indeed, as an example, a com-
mittee of safety, like that of the French Revolution. • (A.
laugh.) He would have commissioners sent out to the
Crimea with power to execute summary justice on
those whom they might think deserving of it. I must
take the honourable gentleman at his word, and suggest
to him that he move this house to extend the fUnctions
of the committee of my honourable and learned friend,
by snaking it obligatory on the members of that com-
mittee-to proceed instantly to the scene of action in the
Crimea, and to remain there until the end of the session.
(Laughter.) Then, again, the hon. gentleman says that-we
have in some instances abstained from getting supplies
from Asia Minor, from which the French have been'able
tt cw, be-
tween profit.
..,
two I p rpootictsitoia, against aoifn stt.hteh :h.
iienavlil
army.ions dißstninteltiaopnpbere:
The
otnehl
((neit appre-
hend
its
Ifurnish
,n arrangements that
ne
gentleman,
neighbourhood
tbi
leaoenui Mltirs aiilineoi
provisions
a,co,
vida•
hennsotubitis thepeyecpfnlboai
reetmsitc,
flaiologtenir:ettlf(ht ler e d sufficiently large
in fromtethbheae tFrenchCrimea.
ePhe; I 1 '
to Itoghlarmy
nsprocurehk ,anda i.
has not yet arrived, has furnished strong reasons against
the conclusion to which he would wish the house to come.
The hon. gentleman says we ought to have stated to the
house what are the terms which my noble friend the mem-
ber for the City of London is about to propose during the
hear, and a laugh.) I
negotiations in which he will shortly take part. It is the
first time I have ever heard it asked that we should, be-
fore entering on negotiations, explain fully to the adverse
party all the stipulations and all the conditions which we
Policy on which we
)wleageiotno.
boformed..
Pen to Censure. But
the hon. gentleman says that between Friday night last
and Monday afternoon I have lost the confidence of the
acted,think l l b
tewh le
vtshouldililfi ntgh ato
justly were
lay the
h aourselves courseff
r 'D f
o
country. (An ironical laugh.) lie says that has, arisen
Now, he omitted to state
from the face that I have not recommended to the Queen a
(Laughter.)
have made the committee
Perhaps he would
of my hon. and
learned friend the memberfor Sheffield theirembers of
exactlyCabi e t
howof
the proposed Cabinet. (A laugh-) Sir, I ail not 'afraid
of the denunciations thus made. lam satisfied that the
people of this country will look far more deeply into things
a different
eCnatbeionme ti
than they aro representec 1 to do by such statements as these.
(Cheers.) I am satisfied when they sec, a Government
which has been constituted in consequence of the failure of
two other attempts to snake a Government, that they will
feel that the men who have thus undertaken the conduct of
affairs have done so because they thought the country ought
not to be left without a Government, that they have done
it from a sense of public duty, and if they believed that
those who have undertaken the conduct of affairs have done
so from honest and honourable motives, they will give them
credit for the desire to perform their duties with a view to
time best interests of the country, and that they will not
lightly believe, as has been stated by the hon,
gentleman,
that between Friday night and Mond
the' ay morning a change
of opinion has taken place in o Cabinet. Sir, we pre-
sented ourselves to the country for the purpose of carrying
on to the best of our means, and with adequate energy, the
• we think necessary to be carried on. We pre-
war which
sorted ourselves to the country with tar see
intention
of eve' 'ling ourselves of the oppertunity, if it be
practi-
cable, of terminating the war by fair and honoureble
means, We will not present, for acceptance to the coun-
try, as a means of that end, terms which we think will not
secure the
country against the recurrence of those events
which compelled us to draw the sword. A hollow truce is
ry would acce t from
not that which the count , P any Govern-
' is still less what the country 'would accept froth
went • it
us. (Cheers.) succeed in obtaining
If we should a treaty
which we think honourable and safe to the co been the untry, we
shall rejoice that we have means
of
restoring
peace on those terms; but if, on tho other hand, it 'should
ape ur that the adversary with whom we are contending
has not yet been brought to that temper of mind from
which a permanent peace can be expected, then we shall
appeal 'to the country for that support in the discharge
of the duties which a continuance of the contest may itn-
pos e upon us. Whatever may be said by the hon. gentle
man or,yeany other member,
bhon. I feel confident that this
country will give its support to aG eve rnment
in who honestly
and honourably intends to do its duty a moment of great
emergency—(cheers)--s Government which has not forced
vote or motion of this house,
or upon the country by any ,
but which has arisen or by any Parliamentary manceuvre
if in
failure of others who might,' they had consequence of the
chosen to undertake the task, but who shrunk from doing se;
ground
on do not mean this as any blame to them, but as a
on which we
are entitled to expect the support of the
two failures to which I refer,
country. I say, after the
man if I had that I should have felt myself a degraded
undertaken the task ; and I threw myself If
ofa withconfidenceParliament on the generosity of the country
and
lo our duty—and''' and
we
I am Convinced that so long as we c
support of the
will do our duty so long as we have the
country, amit
1 I am satisfied we are enabled to d 0
in spite with
that support—in spite of temporary reverses, and
'
of the momentary aspect of affairs, we shall succeed
be it for in
carrying measures to a successful issue,peace
now or peace hereafter, or be it bynegotiation
try on that
proud footing of future security now or
arms hereafter, which shall
onplace this
which
,1112
its greatness
(Loud cheers,)
and its power so well entitle it to stand.
that the mosto
Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE contended
t d the calamities
which precautions might have prevented the
irsities
ant that
which had befallen our troops before Sebastopol,
as yet no explanation had been given why those precan-
• •
tions bad not been taken. For his part, he would insist
which
on some inquiry being made should really ascertain
the long '
• which had so existed
the cause of the state of things
in the Crimea.
Mr. WARNER said he could not think the explanation
given • by the noble lord would be entirely satisfactory to
the country had put
the country. The only reason why
confidettee in the noble lord was because they believed he
was the wan who would act with energy in this ewer-
gency. It had often been sai I that we were not a mile_
tary nation. The House of Commons,
however,
had done
snake us 0110, and he . wanted to
military nation ?
know why it was that we were not a

possessed many sterling qualities for :the profession of
arms; and until means be afforded for such men rising in
their profession the army would never be what it ought
to be.

Mr. MURROUGH thought the country was now some-
what in the state cf Siubad—it was overridden by old
men ; and a few days ago it was in this dilemma, that
there were only two or three men in it who were thought
capable of forming a Ministry, as if a monopoly of the
talent of the country belonged to three noble lords.
He was satisfied that a strong Government would have
been formed if many prejudices had been laid aside.
The noble lord (Viscount Palmerston) was a few days ago,
what he was not now, master of the situation, and he
might have, from below the gangway of either side of the
home, selected men who were capable of forming a strong
Government. (An ironical laugh.) There might not have
been a Russell, an Elliott, or a Cavendish among them;
but there would have been men of greater weight, and
equal, if not greater, ability—he meant those who repre-
sented large constituencies, and who came to that house
with the weight of the people's authority upon them.
ARMY ESTIMATES.
The house then went into committee for the purpose of
voting the army estimates, and
Mr. P. PEEL, after claiming the indulgence of the
committee, on the ground of the very short period which
had elapsed since he bad held office connected with the
War Department, proceeded to lay before the house the
details of the estimates for the army during the ensuing
year, and in doing so said—The estimates for the army
have been swollen to dimensions unusually large, but not,
I believe, larger than are commensurate withthe magni-
tude of the operations iu which the country is engaged. I
regret deeply the absence, from. indisposition, of my right
hon. friend the present Secretary of State for the Colonies,
under whose superintendence the present estimates have
been framed, and which differ in several respects from those
which have been submitted to the house for the curren t year.
The present differ from ,the previous estimates on account
of the greater number of the men, in the large augmenta-
tions in many of those services which are inseparable from
the administration of the army, and also in the creation of
a new department, which has not previously been included
in the estimates nor submitted to the consideration of the
house, viz., the land transport service.. Setting aside the
number of regiments of infantry and cavalry of the line em-
ployed in India, and paid by the Government of that coun-
try, nor reckoning the estimated force of the foreign corps
to be raised under the Foreign Enlistment Act, and exclud-
ing also the militia already embodied, the number of men
which we propose to be voted for the service of the ensuing
year is 178,645. When my right hon. friend the late Secre-
tary at 'War introduced the original estimates of last year,
he stated that he was desirous that the house should first
have the opportunity of discussing the policy of those mea-
sures in which the Government had been concerned pre-
vious to the breaking out of the war, and that after such
discussion had taken place he would then introduce farther
estimates to provide for placing the army upon a war foot-
ing, and he introduced two supplementary estimates which,
together, provided for an addition to the force of the army
of nearly 30,000 men. Comparing the estimates of the
present with the original estimates of the last year, there
is an increase of about 66,000 men; but as compared with
the whole estimates of the year there is-an increase of but
35,869, exclusive of 14,950 men in the foreign corps pro-
posed to be raised. The manner in which this increased
number of men is proposed to be spread over the effective
strength of the army is as follows :—ln the first place,
there will be an addition of 1,950 men to the Foot Guards.
The cavalry also will be increased by 3,470 mon. The
remainder is to be spread over 41 regiments of infantry of
the line. A battalion of 2,000 strong is to be added to the
60th Rifles, making that regiment one of three battalions,
and a battalion of the same strength is to be added
to the rifle corps, making three battalions also in that
corps. In the course of last year, every regiment,
exclusive of those in India, was raised from an esta-
blishment of 1,000 to 1,200 men, and directions have
now been given for further raising the force of those regi-
ments-4I in number—now serving in the Crimea, from
1,200 to 2,000 men each. With respect to the distribution
of this force, there are ten regiments of cavalry in the
Crimea, 41 regiments of infantry of the line, and the re-
mainder of the regiments, exclusive of those in India, are
employed in the colonies and the military stations in the
Mediterranean. In the course of the past year a consider-
able reduction has been made in the number of troops
maintained by this country in the colonies. There has
been an addition of one battalion to the force iu the Aus-
tralian colonies, but the Government of these colonies are
called upon to pay for that increased force, and credit is
taken in the estimates for a sum of 12,0001. for the cost of
that battalion. The whole sum payable by the'Australian
colonies for the military force maintained there is 30,0001.
Neither at New Zealand nor at Van Diemen's Land has
it been thought advisable to make any redaction in the
military force there stationed. The force at the Cape still
continues very large, and it has not been thought advisable
at present to make any reductions in the number of troops
at present stationed in that colony. A very considerable
reduction has been made in the West India and British
North American colonies. Thera wore formerly throe regi-
ments in the West India colonies ; there are now only two.
In the British North American colonies there wore six
regiments—viz., four in Canada and two iu the lower pro-
vinces. There are now only one regiment in Canada (ex-
clusive of the Canadian Rifles) and one in the lower pro-
vinces. It must be satisfactory to know that the reduction
was made almost entirely at the invitation of the colonists
themselves. Thepeople of Canada have expressed their deep
sympathy with this country in the cause in which it is en-
gaged ; ' and with regard to the force in Nova Scotia, the
legislature of that province-has presented an address to the
Crown expressing its readiness to undertake the external
defence of that country, should the Government find it
necessary to withdraw the troops at present stationed there.
Of the two regiments in the British North Ameritan colo-
nies, one is now at Quebec) and the other at Halifax.
The whole amount of reduction is about 3,000 men, repre-
senting an expenditure of from 90,0001. to 100,0001. (Hear.)
The next vote to which I will call the attention of the com-
mittee includes the charge for the daily pay and daily al-
lowance, which for the number of men I have mentioned,
will amount in the course of the year to 4,500,0001., being
an increase of about 1,50J,00N. There has been no altera-
tion in the rate of pay of
_the men and officers, with the
exception of that of the colonels of the reginients, which
will be found to range from a sum of 6001. to 1,0001. a year
for the Foot Guards. That addition to the pay of the
colonels has been made in conformity with the recom-
mendation of a committee of this house, which had re-
ference to the alteration in the mode of clothing the regi-
ments. (Hear, hear.) With respect to raising the
increased number of men now proposed, it is found that
the effective strength of the army is not equal to the estab-
lishment as voted last year, and that it will be necessary
to recruit 40,000 men in the course of the ensuing year, in
order to bring the army up to its proposed strength. Pro-
vision has therefore been made in theestiunstes for recruit-
ing up to that number. We have also to add about2o,ooo
men to supply vacancies which are estimated to be caused
by casualties in the course of the year, so that provision is
required to be made for tho recruiting of 60,000 men.
The estimated cost of raising this number of men is
513,0001., being an excess over that of the estimate of the
last year for a similar purpose of 378,0001. The bounty upon
recruiting for the infantry was raised from 41. to 61. during
last autumn, and in January last to 81. A plan will be
proposed by the noble lord at the head of the War Depart-
ment for enabling the Government to avail itself of the ser-
vices of a class of recruits of a greater age than that at which
recruits are admitted into the army, whose services will
be givenfor smaller periods, of one,two,or three years. The
sum proposed to be taken to defray the expense of mount-
ing the cavalry is 320,0001. This sum will include the
purchase of 7,500 horses for the cavalry of the line; in fact,
re-mounting almost the entire cavalry of the army. In the
cavalry regiments in the Crimea the effective force was not
more than 4,197 ; but this force has now dwindled down to
an amount not exceeding 1,000. We have also to provide
for bringing up the former establishment of 4,197 to the
proposed increased number of 7,800 • and also to provide
for meeting the casualties which are likely to occur in the
course of the ensuing year. The estimated cost of each
horse is sot down at 401., while the original cost was for-
merly not more than 261. It has hitherto been the practice
of the Government to purchase horses at the age of three
years, and the regulation price was 261. The horses were
kept during two years, during which period they cost the
country about 601. each, and when five years old they were
fit for service. It is now proposed to buy horses of the
ages of from five to nine years, and the estimated cost of
horses of that age is 401. The next item is that of cost for
clothing, amounting to 105,0001. The syserm of clothing
the regiments by the colonels has, as I have already said,
been abolished, and the manner in which we have calm.
latkd the cost of clothing under the new system has been
to take first the cost price of the clothing for each regi-
ment, making an allowance for the colonel's former pecu-
niary profit, and then adding the cost of the clothing for
the additional number of men to be added to each regi-
ment. The colonels of the regiments have now no pecu-
niary interest iu the matter, and the bills will be sent in
and paid by the Government. For tho expenses of general
regimental hospitals, an increase is proposed of a sum of
155,000/. Under ordinary circumstances, when a man goes
into the hospital, a deduction is made from his pay of the
sum of 10d. per diem, and no charges for the hospitals have
been borne by the public, the hospitals being self-support-
ing. But when a man becomes sick in the course of active
service, the stoppage made from his pay is only equal to
3id., the cost of his rations. The great bulk of the in-
crease in the vote is owing to the establishment of hospi-
tals in connection with the army in the East at Balaklava,
Scutari, and at the camp before Sebastopol. As an instance
of the difficulty of foreseeing all the probable demands upon
the Government in time of war, I may state that since these
estimates were prepared it has been proposed to estab-
lish a civil hospital at Smyrna, and to place it in charge
of medical practitioners taken from the civil' part of the
profession, and no provision is therefore made for this es-
tablishment in the present estimates. In the vote for di-
vine service there is an increase of 79,0001. The number
of chaplains sent out is 42, of whom 24 belong to the Esta-
blished Church, eight to the Presbyterian, and ten to ,the
Roman Catholic religion. The rate of pay to each chap-
lain is 16s. per day, with the exception of some, who re-
ceive contributions from the Society for the Propagation of
the Gospel, and who receive only 1001. per annum. For
schools and libraries there is an increase, chiefly arising
from increased pay to the schoolmasters, of 7,1501. Owing
to the intention of Government to appoint additional
schoolmasters who have been trained in normal schools, to
establish schools iu connection with various regiments and
depots, an increase of eighteen has been made in the num-
ber of schoolmasters who have been appointed to the schools
of militia regiments. The whole number of trained school-
masterenowappointed is seventy-four, and we estimate that
we shall be able to appoint thirty additional ones, thus
making a total of 104 schoolmasters. A 811111 of 150,0001.
is proposed to be voted as allowance to officers and men for
losses, with a view of covering claims to compensation which
are likely to bo made in the course of the ensuing year on the
part of officers and men for losses which they may sustain
while engaged in active service against the enemy. A sum
of 75,0001. is also proposed for " field allowances," consist-
ing of payments made to officers who are actually on service;
upon an average they amount to about 2s. Gd. per day, and
their object is to-provide officers' outfit and allowance
trio
the renewal of private baggage, &c. I next come tooautic
vote to defray the charges connected with the proposed 1
state of inefficiency. It has been placed udder he charge
.g.
of the Commissariat Department. The thaws which are
pt transport s Ie rit
servicescr vice.
of t
hlet
ahlainsybeienntahtelinciit.itineee4thhaatst the
fallen
citurra.ron,ene-
proper to the Commisedriat Dep irtrowit are ample to occupy
the whole time of eny.al taliiiaet.
t°seulerlhiet"tliel (q)fuaalitiedto cope with diffi-
culties.l3lb: ns over-burdened
mou nte
d.
NoAtV onlyt with department,
it
lOnvnaw:
this
sick, but also to provide for carrying up to the camp large
which had to
department called upon to provide the means of transport
quantities of extra warm clothing for the troops, and large
branchcf
jo3i(rtuit:fen'sts',lihef'oarrseafig:eiii,eneli ammunition, and the carriage of the
quantities of huts sent out from this country, and that,
lteocoie adt
togetrrhree
rwhe
dying
it fu
ni
g no
large
the
ini animalsmbers whichfrom
insufficiency
it
had (l col -
of food, badness of roads, and exposure to inclement wea-
ther. The land transport service was in a state of ineffi-
ciency, and to remedy it the Government have organised

inquiry, let them send out, instead of these commissions,
a man whom they had confidence in; let him mix with the
rogimental officers and the soldiers, and he would in a very
few days find out where was the real evil. The noble
lard (Palmerston) bad said nothing about the War-office
—nothing about a reform of the Horse Guards—nothing
about promotion, upon which subject his noble friend the
member for Huddersfield (Lord Goderich) had given no-
tice of a motion. The country would not be satisfied with
the promotion of sixty sergeants. It was not in a humour
to take that as a privilege which it demanded as a prin-
ciple and a right. Unless the Government was prepared
to make a thorough and radical' change in the system at
die Horse Guards, the country would not be satisfied with
anything which it could do. The right hon. gentleman,
lately the Secretary at War (Mr. S. Herbert) had in a
recent speech insinuated that it was to the House of Com-
mons refusing to support an army equal to the wants of
the public service that the evils from which our troops
had suffered were to be attributed. The blame was con-
tinually shifted from one person to another. The general
in command said that he was crippled from home ; tLe
Government said the general did not pursue the instruc-
tions they sent to him ; he threw the blame on the regi-
mental officers, and the right honourable gentleman
threw it upon tke soldiers. Thus one blamed the
other, and at last they all agreed to blame the House
of CJrnmous. If the House of Commons was to blame,
let it be sent to the country, and let its con-
stituents force it to do its duty. He denied, however, •
that the house was to blame. It had for years voted sums
of money sufficient almost to support the army of France.
What the house had objected to was the present system of
favouritism at the Horse Guards, and unless the noble lord
was prepared to act upon such a principle as should put an
end to this, how could ho ask for the confidence and sup-
port of those who believed that the miserable and disgrace.
ful condition to which our army had been reduced was
mainly owing to the state of things which existed at the
Horse Guards? Every one was afraid to act with vigour.
One morning, as he was going up the lines, he met a con-
voy of upwards of 300 wounded men attended only by a
few privates, without officers or surgeons. Lord Raglan's
attention was called to it. He inquired into it, and found
that the medical mon and officers who had charge of these
wounded men had neglected their dirty. He published a
general order, censuring the conduct of the officers as dis-
graceful, but added, " I will spare their feelings, and will
not mention their names." Ile (Mr. Layard) honoured and
revered such feelings in a man, but could not honour or re-
verence them in a general. (Cheers.) What was the result ?
The Marines having been landed at Balaklava, and placed
ender the orders of the colonel commanding there, one of
them was during the night seized with the cholera. He
was taken to one of the hospitals, the surgeon of which
refused to get up, because the man was a marine. He was
then carried to another, where he was refused admission,
and as the guard could not leave their post he was left on
the shore to die. This was brought to Lordßaglan'snotice,
and he was asked to issue a general order reflecting on the
medical men concerned. He declined to do so, because he
had already issued one general order reflecting upon the
medical men, and if he issued another it would weaken the
confidence of the army in the medical staff. These were
dreadful things. Lord Raglan was an amiable man, and
a man of good heart ; but the man whom we wanted to com-
mand the army was not an amiable man, but a man who
would sacrifice friends, relations, all that he held dear in the
world, to pet form whit under such circumstances was an act
of imperative duty. If things went on in this way, many
months would not elapse before there would be nothing
but the staff left to return to this country. Let them send
out a man of vigour, who would cut down to the root, and
who would spare nothing or nobody, and they might then
hope for some change—they might then hope to save the
survivors of our gallant army. If such a course were not
adopted all would perish, and their blood would be upon
the heads of the Ministry. (Hear, hear.) It was said
that our army was not used to great campaigns. Our cam-
paigns
in India had been on a larger scale than those of
the French in Algeria; but a paltry jealousy prevented us
availing ourselves of the experience thus gained, and led
to such men as Outrarn and numbers of others who had
led our troops to glory, and had seen great campaigns, ,
being passed over because they received the pay of the
East India Company, while men of seventy, who had never
seen a campaign, were sent out, because they had family
connexions, because they were related to members of Par- ,
liament, or could command a seat. This was monstrous.
He was told that by using this language he was pulling
down the aristocracy. On the contrary, he wanted to
save them, and those only endangered them who supported ,
the continuance of such a state of things as this, by which
the people of England, though patient and long-suffering,
would, if it continued, eventually be reused to fury. He '
was told that the Times had raised the cry, and had made 4
the popular indignation. It was not so, any more than it
was the Puritan preachers who made the English, or Res- '
Sean and Voltaire who made the French revolution.
These men did not make the revolutions, but were made '
b. y them. So, too, it was not the Times that made public
indignation in England, but public indignation which
made the Times. (Cheers.) If the Government wanted
to have the position of the Times, let them do as it had
done ; let them come forward in that house, and say what
the people of England thought, and not what they wanted
them to think. (Hear, hear) The noble lord had told
the house that Lord John Russell was going to Vienna,
but he had not told it whether he was going to advocate'
the principle advocated by Lord Castlereagh, to whose
mission this had been compared, or whether he was going
to negotiate upon the four points. This was a question of
such importance that upon it the people of England,
through their representatives, had a right to ask for dis-
tinct information. He did not wish to touch upon sub-
jects which it might be dangerous to canvass in a public
assembly, but did it never occur to Ministers that the
people of England had by the fault of their Governments
now placed themselves in a position which exposed them
to the contempt of their neighbours, and which they might
ere long have occasion to rue, not so much on account of
their own dignity and interest as on account of the inde-
lible impression it had made on those who might be at
heart our enemies, and our friends only for a period ? Did
the Government forget that the eyes of all Europe were
now upon us ? Was it ready, for any private, party, or
family considerations, to allow us to become not only the '
laughing-stock of the world, but to fall from the high
piace which we once held in the rank of nations, and to
show that we might perhaps be an easy prey to any one
who sought our destruction ? In what position did the
noble lord (Lord Palmerston) stand a few days ago? No
man ever undertook the formation of a Ministry who had
more general sympathy not only throughout England but
throughout the world. H;s name was throughout Europe,
ve
h eof
wouldigreat
. reputationnPo rti suacyi,
of the cause of Italy in 1848 could not tarnish ; it has
prasse-lmaec sae ai;sgvoiertibl nrwaoasaansd: whethere;
thatrepresentative
cayssee Innti ht4taehht liberty.Yeebpoerotrefis•aeyi wronglyatal ti
of the Sicilians and
passed through every storm. He rose in that house with
the whole people of England ready to support him. He
rose as no man bad ever risen there before, at a moment
when every member of the house would have supported
him, because they felt that, at a great crisis, he had, from
a sense of duty, undertaken a difficult and onerous task.
Would the people of England be satisfied with what the noble
lord haddono? He thought they would not. They were quiet

Major REID said he had been long of opinion that the
whole system in vogue at the Horse Guards was disgrace-
ful, and that if anything could make it more disgraceful it
was the jobbery practised in giving commissions by pur-
chase. Ho contended that until there was a change in
that respect they would never have an efficient army, and
that until they made the service open to merit they would
never obtain really efficient officers. There was a vast
number of men in the army who, although not highly
educated, and not born with a silver spoon in their mouths,

seeassete,
considered the change w 0..„--- -
sereee
genet wee a very leophseheot; 4.4
must be very satisfactory. But he wished to ask the lion.
gentleman whether it had struck him that the officers of
the army sent home from theerimea were subjected to very
great expense. He would give the house a case which had
been related to him. It was the case or an officer who was
wounded in the Crimea by ricochet cannon ball a 9-pounder..
He saw the ball coming, and saw it enter the ground,
and thought it had not sufficient power to strike him ; but
it did strike him in the breast. He (Captain Boldero)
was speaking of facts related te him by the officer's bro-
ther. The ball struck him and knocked him from his
horse ; the medical men in the Crimea saw the wound was
of great severity, and he was ordered home. He (Captain
Boldero) had seen the individual himself in London, delicate
in appearance but still in pretty good health. The wound
turned out badly afterwards, an ulcer formed in his chest,
and he was laid upon his back. He went to an eminent
medical man in London and stated Lis case. The opinion
of that medical man was, had the ball struck him lower
down, in the pit of the stomach, it would be instant death ;
that had it struck him higher up it would cause a linger-
hig death, but having struck him where it did he thought
he could cure him, lie made a deep incision in the chest,
and attended him twice a day. That man was paying two
guineas a day to that medical man for attendiug him, in
the hope that he would cure him. Whereae, if there was
an hospital for officers of the army like those in Ports-
mouth and Plymouth, he would receive the best medical
attendance in the kingdom free of expense. The officer
heel about 15s. a day, and he had to pay between two and
three guineas a day for medical attendance, There was
something rotten in the system when such a man was
obliged to pay a heavy expense in order to got ~`tie neces-
sary attendance. It was stated by the hon. menther for
Aylesbury that the medical men in front of Seleestopol
had signed a round robin, offering their resignation to
Lord Raglan, though they were in presence of an enei.V,
and if such a thing did occur it was mutiny. The eoldie,"B
had done their duty as men with gallantry and bravery,
hand to hand and foot to foot, and let them blame the re-
gimental officers as they liked, they and the men had done
the work. With regard to the state of recruiting, he
understood they were at that moment getting 1,000 a
week, a formidable number-52,000 a year. But what
were the casualties? Why the casualties were a 1,000 per
week. He did not pretend to say that the casualties in
the Crimea were a 1,000 a week ; but what he meant to
say was, that the casualties of the British army, including
the colonies, were a 1,000 a week ; and that being so, he
wanted to know, how the army was to be recruited if the
war continued? In the course of these discussions allusion
had been made to the Walcheren expedition, and an
attempt had been made to draw a comparison between
that and the expedition to the Crimea. But the former
expedition had to encounter a notoriously bad climate,
but in the Crimea the climate was comparatively healthy,
and yet we had lost our troops. We had lost (them, not
through the climate, but from ever fatigue, from want of
food, from want of clothing, from want of medical attend-
! anee. Tho climate of the Crimea was just as good as the
climate of England, and if we had fed and clothed the
troops well, most likely they would have been just s.s
healthy as if they were at home. The fact was, however,
this Government had undertaken what they could not pee,'
form ; they had entered- upon a war against Russia without
making proper arrangements—and what had been the re•
suit? Why, they had sent a formidable fleet to the Baltic,
which had done nothing ; they had sent an army to Varna,
which was cruelly reduced by disease; and, finally, they
had cent au army into the Crimea to fight three splendid
actions, without subduing the enemy. All these things
were admitted; every blunder was admitted—for the Go-
vernment denied nothing ; and there could be no doubt
about it, that the whole action of the army and the ma-
nagement of its supplies had been a mass of confusion and
neglect from beginning to end. He yet hoped, however,
that the present Government would be enabled to get the
country out of the difficulty ; but before they could do so
an effort must be made to invest the north of Sebastopol.
He did not wish to go into any other matters of detail,
but there was ono incident he could not help referring to,
if only for a moment or two. Last July, while walking
along the banks of the Thames, he saw some barges load-
ing with porter, and he was told the porter was going out
to the Crimea. An order was afterwards issued, stating
that the porter would be supplied to the troops at half-
price, but he was informed when the porter reached Con-
stantinople there was no ono to receive it, nor were there
any stores where it could he warehoused, and the porter
had to be brought back to England again. Now he should
be glad to know how that was. Didithe authorities order
it back because it was inferior in quality, or why?
Porter, he thought, would be of great service to the
troops as a preservative of health—at 'least so he should
gather from the experience of a medical officer who had
served with the 94th Regiment in India. The mortality
in that regiment in 1840 was 91 per cent., whereas
in 1854 it had fallen to 1i percent. ; and that improvement
the medical officer attributed partly to improved sanitary
arrangements, and partly to the introduction of porter
amongst the men, who were thereby induced to abandon
the use of spirituous liquors. Now there was no difficulty
about this porter ;it was a national beverage—it could be
obtained cheap—and he should like to know how it was
that the porter sent out last summer was returned home
instead of being distributed to the troops?
Mr. W. WILLIAMS should neither object to the num-
ber of men nor the amount of money asked for, but there
were parts of these estimates which they could not well
discuss then. For instance, they wore told that the offices
of Secretary for 'War and Secretary at War were to be con-
solidated, and if that were so, how could they be required
to vote the expense of both? He, however, had no wish
to complain of expense; what he wanted was efficiency in
the execution of the office. The cost of these offices was
something like 70,000/. a year, and he ventured to say that
for that sum, if the two were combined, the business would
bo infinitely better done than it was at present. Only plane
is proper person at the head of the War Department, as was
done in France, and he should have no fears for the re-
sult ; but in the meantime, until they were informed what
Government had determined upon, he thought this branch
of the estimates ought to be postponed. The hon. gentle.
man had referred to the change which had been made in
the chilling of the army. He (Mr. 'Williams) had made it
a rule to bring that question before the house for a num•
ber of years past, and, of course, he was not sorry to hear
that at length the clothing of the army was placed in the
hands of the Government, instead of the colonel- in com-
mand. As far back aslB3l a committee reported upon this
very subject, and at that time the profit to the colonel for
clothing the Grenadier Guards was 1,8001. ; but now he
hoped the system was irrevocably changed, and that the
colonels were provided for as gentlemen and sol-
diers ought to te, instead of having to make up
their incomes by becoming the tailors of their own
orefggiemneenratsl.
officers,The, chtg,,atiuw,alviathiv.roeignairicloftothethgemeatnteoslut mpoeshstia.
ble compotint, for the sy
/
stew enabled Prince Albeit to re-
ceive 2,2001. a year, while such men as Sir De Lacy Evans,
Sir Colin Campbell, and Sir Thomas Brown only
i-eceived
1,100/. as the colonels commanding regiments. Where was
the justification for paying Prince Albert, who was no soi-
-1 dier, so much more than those veteran officers, whom he
did not object to see provided for, when it was done in a
proper manner ? The hon. gentleman had also referred to
the system now going on for reducing the number of gene-
ral officers ; but although there was now a desire to reduce
their number, it appeared to him, upon looking closely
into the Queen's warrant, that there was a loophole left
for increasing the number in the event of the Minister
wishing it. We haul now 350 general officers on the list,
whereas France, with an army of between 500,000 and
600,000 men, had only 255. Another matter which he
faund fault with was the preference given to the Guards
over regiments of the line. Why should a captain in the
Guards have the rank of a lieutenant-:olenel in the line?
He could only account for it by the fact that the Guards
wore principally officered by members of the aristocracy.
Again, look at the inequality in the pay of officers in the
Guards and officers in the line ; a lieutenant-colonel in the
Guards received V. 6s. 9d. a-day, while an officer of simi-
lar rank in the line only received 17s. a day. It only re-
mained for him to observe that he thought the colonies
ought to provide their own local forces, without putting
this country to expense, and to repeat that he made no
objection to the number of men or the amount of money
asked for them.

1 this land transport corns, which will undertake the land
1 transport service of the army. It is placed under the
charge of Colonel M`Murdoch, who had proceeded from
this country to the Crimea to set it in immediate opera-
tion. 1 find that, including the staff, the number of per-
sons that will be organised—native drivers amongst them,
who will form part of the corps—will amount to about
3,000, and this vote is intended to cover the pay of that
number of men, and, I believe, also to provide for the
transport of animals that shall be purchased by our agents.
I do not mean to say that it will be sufficient to pay for
the animals themselves, but it will provide for their con-
veyance from the countries whore they shall be purchased
to the seat of war, where they will be available for the pur-
poses of the army. lam unable to state the number of
animals that will be collected . together, because that will
be regulated by the demands of the service. The honour-
able member fer Aylesbury has said that we have made no
provision for the maintenance of tho foreign corps ; but
in that respect ho was in error, for 1 have now arrived at
the estimate which provides for that, purpose 400,0001.,
and which will be found at page 10. 1 have now gone
through all the material items of the second vote in these estimates, and 1 have now to state that the total charge
for Um land forces to he voted by this house amounts to
the sum of 7,350,0001., which is in excess of the eetielate
of last year—including in that expression as well the
original as two supplementary estimates-2,630,0001.
There is no difficulty in accounting for that excess.
It is owing to the, increased number of men receiving
daily pay—the cost of the foreign corps—the coot of the
land transport corps—the additional cost of hospital service
and of the recruiting service, and the mounting of the men.
Suppose I divide the charge for the land forces amongst
the men to be maintained, including the foreign corps, I
find the cost per man, including officers as well as privates,
will be for 1853-54, 351. Bs. ; for 1854-55, 341. 14s. ; and for
the present year, 371. 19s. The increase for the vote in the
last year for the staff amounts to 163,600/. There is no
alteration, I think, in the Cape of Good Hope staff; and
with regard to that part of the foreign staff that is em-
ployed in the other colonies, I find there is a diminution of
about 5,5001. That diminution is owing to the reduction
of the military force in the province of Canada. In conse-
quence of that reduction, we have substituted a major-
general on the staff for a lieutenant-general, and to that sub-
stitution this reduction is to be attributed. There is one
remark which I wish to make in reference to the pay of the
military secretary of the governor of the Cape of Good Hope.
The Government have determined that for the future,
where there is a civil governor in a colony, he shall not be
allowed any staff by the Imperial Government. The con-
sequence is, that in the case of the Governor of Canada we
have taken away the provision that was made for the aide-
de-camp for the civil governor. But we have made an ex-
ception to the rule in the case of the Governor of the Cape of Good Hope. We allow him a military secretary, paid
by this country, and the reason is partly in consequence of
the much larger force maintained is the Cape of Good
Hope than in the other colonies, and partly also in conse-
quence of the major-general commanding the army at the
Cape being at a very great distance from the seat of the
civil government, the major-general being at the eastern ex-
tremity and the civil governor at the western extremity.
The whole of the increase in the estimates isto be attributed
to the staff employed in the army abroad. It is not nem-
eery to go into details, but I may say that more than one-half
of the increase is required to pay for the number of surgeons
and assistant-sureeons which it is necessary to employ in
the hospitals at Zutari and with the army. The next vote
to which I come is vote No. 4, for the public departments
connected with the army. In this vote there is also a con-
siderable increase—there is an increase of 48,5001. I may
state that I shall reduce the vote when I come to take it by
the salary of the Secretary-at-War, for, that office having
ceased to exist as a separate office, it will not be necessary
to veto the salary. The increase in No. 4 arises partly from
our having included in it the charge for the establishment
of the Secretary of State for War, which amounts to a sum
of 18,0001. The charge for that department last year was,
I think, included in the civil estimates ; at all events, it
was not included in the army estimates. There is also a
considerable increase in the cost of the office which has
hitherto been known as that of the Secretary at War. It
has been found necessary to have an additional number of
clerks employed in that office. The clerks engaged are
temporary clerks, and of course will cease to be employed
the moment the pressure of business in that service shall
be reduced. There is ales an increase on account of postage,
which is merely 'a matter Of account, costing nothing to
the public ; and these items added together account for
the whole of the increase in this vote. I shall pass over
the sth rote—the vote for the Royal Military College—be-
cause that is a self-supporting institution. That is to say,
the payments made by the young men who are educated in
that college quite cover the cost of the establishment. The
payments, however, aro made into the Exchequer, and a
certain sum is voted in the estimates for the supportP of the
establishment. An hon. gentleman has given notice of a
motion on the subject of the payments made by different
classes of students, which will come on in duo course, and
I then propose to referfurther to the matter. There is an in-
crease in the vote for the military asylum, which is vote No.
6, of 2,6111. I alai informed that last year an Act of Parlia-
ment was passed authorisiug the appropriation of 10,0001.
for the purpose of enlarging the accommodation in the Mil-
itary Asylum, and the ebject of the increased vote in the pre-
sent year is to provide for the additional orphans who are to
1 be admitted into the asylum in consequence of the additional
accommodation thus provided. The present number of
orphans, as well in the Royal Military Asylum as in the
Hibernian School, is 350, and we now provide for the
maintenance of 120 additional orphans. Passing over vote
No. 7, iu which no alteration is made, I come to vote No.
8, which is the charge for the embodied militia of the
United Kingdom. There are 150 regiments of militia to
be provided for, and the charge amounts to 3,813,3831.
This is the first time that the charge for the militia has
been included in the army estimates of late years. The
course hitherto has been to take the militia estimates sepa-
rately from the army estimates. A committee was ap-
pointed, to whom the secretary submitted the militia esti-
mates, and if the committee approved of them, they were
introduced to the house separately, and passed in that form.
Last year a sum was taken on account for the several regi-
ments of militia embodied. This year, however, nearly
the whole of the militia of the country is placed on a per-
manent footing, and the charge, therefore, for this service
is included in the army estimates. Of the' regiments em-
bodied the service of three has been accepted for the Medi-
terranean, and it is intended to send a further number to
the same part of the world. With this vote is concluded
the effective branch of this estimate, and upon the effective
branch it is that the whole augmentation takes place. On
coming to the other division of this estimate—the non-
effective branch, it would be found that, on the whole, as
compared with last year, there is a reduction cf 33,0001.
The first rote on the non-effective brunch is the charge for
rewarding officers and men who have rendered distinguished
service to the country. The whole vote amounts to 2z,000/.,
of which 18,0001. is appropriated to the rewarding cf ofti-
cots, and 4,0001. to the rewarding of sergeants. There is
an increase in that part of the estimate that is employed
in the rewarding of sergeants of 1,5001. The next two
votes are 10 and 11, both of which are important, and
both of which show a considerable increase. The first
of those votes is applied to the unattached pay of
general officers, and there is an increase in the vote of
18,005/. I will state the manner in which the increase
arose. It is owing to the recommendation of the com-
mission which was appointed last year upon the subject of
the retirement and promotion of officers in the army. The
number of general officers receiving payment at the rate of
11. ss. per day was fixed some time ago at 120. Such super-
numerary general officers, provided they had served a cer-
tain number of years as field officers, were allowed to re-
ceive not 1/. ss. a-day, but an annual allowance of 4001. In
consequence of their being no brevet for some time past,
the number of general officers in the estimates of last year
had sunk below 120, and the number had become fixed at
105, so that there was no general officer receiving the pay
of 400/. a-year. The commission appointed last year made
an entire change in the manner of promoting officers to be
general officers with the view of bringingyounger men into
the ranks, where they could be employed in time command
of brigades or divisions. It is unnecessary to enter into the
details at length, except so far as they boar upon the esti-
mate in this vote. It was stated that the effect of the re-
commendation, if adopted, would be to bear hardly upon
the colonels created by the brevet of 1811 and 181(1, and in
laints it was advised that one
rmoreode to
brevets)re shouldvent y c Ili
be issued°P to include all the colonels of
1811 and 1846. The commission recommended that the
number of general officals receivin„eil/. ss. a-day should be
reduced to the number of 100 ; but the effect of the brevet
of last year, by bringing forward to the rank of major-
general the colonels of 1811 and 1846, has been to raise
the whole number of major-generals, excepting always
those who arc employed and are colonels of regiments, to
148, and the excess over 100 is to be provided for ; but it
is intended in future to promote only one colonel to the
rank of major-general for every throe vacancies, until the
whole number, which is now 143 shall be reduced to 100.
The payment of the 4001. a-year to the general officers
exceeding 100 will account for she increase in this vote.
The increase on vote No. 11 is caused by the re-
tirement on full pay of a certain number of colonels,
captains, and other officers, and that is owing also
to the recommendation of the commission ; for whereas
formerly the sum fixed was 46,0001,. in accordance with
the recommendation of the committee it was agreed that
it should be raised to the sum of 60,0001., the object being
to make provision for certain captains and other officers
who did not possess the activity which the exigencies of
the present time required. A sum of 5,0001. would bo
sufficient for the purpose in the course of this year ; and
next year and subsequent years more votes would be taken
for the same purpose, so as eventually to )ring up the
whole vote for retired full pay for officers of the rank of
colonel and captain and other officers to the standard of
60,0001. The charge for half-pay has undergone a reduc-
tion in the course of last year. The diminution in the num-
ber of officers receiving it was not less than 313, and the
diminution amounted to 7,721/. A great part of this re-
duction was owing to deaths in the course of the year, but
a portion of it was also owing to the course pursued by the
Government in calling out all the available captains who
would accept employment in the army on active service,
the opportunity of offering them employment beinge
afforded to the Government by the augmentation of la
forces. I may observe that this vote, though substantially
a non-effective vote, has, to a certain extent, in
conse-
quence of what passed in the course of last year, main-
tained a reserve on which the Government are able to call
for officers, and by which the establishment of the army
may be increased without at the same time increasing the
burdens of the country. I have no remark to make upon
vote 13, which provides for the pay of the disbanded offi-
cers of the foreign corps in the late war, which shows of
course. I wish to say a few words on votes 14 and 15 which
provides pensions for the widows of officers and for their
families. The increase in the vote for the present year is to be
attributed to the probability that there will be an increased
number of claims in the course of the year, and it is con-
sidered desirable to relax the forms of the warrant under
which those pensions are granted. Suppose an officer dies
trout fatigue or privation while engaged against the enemy
it is considered that his widow and family have as fair a
claim upon the country as if he had died in battle. In the vote
for the hospitals there has been a sin ill increase in copse- ,
quence of the increased price of provisions. The only re-
meining vote which it is necessary to advert to is the
charge tor out-pensioners. There is a reduction of the sum 1
of e 7,1231. iu that vote iu consequence of out-pensioners
dying of in the course of the year, while the present war
it is not supposed during this next year will exercise any
material influence on the number of out-pensioners.
II tying occupied the committee so long, I shall now, with- i
out leaking any of those r itlections which the nature of the 1
subject, might call for, at oece proceed, sir, to place in your i
heed the first vote for 193,595 otlizeis, non-commissioned t
officers, and rank and file for the year commencing the let
of April, 1855, and end's; the 30th of March, 1856.
Captain Be/LDERO observed that navy officers who were
wounded and brought house to this country had an asylum
offered to them at Portsmouth or Plymouth, where they
received every kindness and attention, and were attended
by the medical skill which their cases demanded, and he
thought it was a great hardship that wounded officers of
the army, sent home from the Crimea, had not a similar
asylum to receive them. He was glad to hear from the
hon. member that the charge made to soldiers on entering
hospital had been reduced from tenpence to twopence. Ile 1.

Mr. BENTINCK would not trouble the house with any
remarks upon the details of these estimates ; he merely
wished to make this one single remark—they had often
heard of the enormous expense attendant upon the mainte-
nance of an army, but when they compared the estimates
moved last year with those of the present year, they could
not fail to be surprised at the enormous sum of money
which had been expended in starvingan army. Bui he hoped
now that there was a new Government there would be a
better state of things. and that when they met next year
they would not be called upon to indulge in the sad reflec-
tions that they were compelled to do now. (Hear.)
Colonel B. KNOX declared that it was the course pur-
sued by the hon. member for Lambeth and the hon. mem-
ber for Montrose, and members of their class, that had
brought matters to their present state. The hon. member
for Lambeth, whose speech was a tirade against Prince
Albert, before he got up in that house to preach about the
condition of the army, should first thoroughly learn his
lesson in order that he might know what he was talking
about. The hon. member had made several gross mis-
takes. He forgot to tell the house that in the Guards there
were three battalions, and that each battalion was equal
to a regiment of the lino; but that would not suit the
tactics of the hon. member, who was little better than a
pettifogging economist. (A laugh.) Did not the hon.
member know what an officer in the Guards drew for al-
lowances? Did ho draw for coals, candles, and so forth,
which wore allowed to officers of the line ? No such thing ;
but it did not suit the hon, member's purpose to mention
those minor details. A captain in the Guards received
1201. a year, in the line ho received 2001., and yet the
officers in the Guards had to find their own clothing—
everything, in fact. (Hear.) He wished to put this
matter fairly to the honourable member. Well, then,
was it not disgraceful in him to talk in the manner he had
done ? Was ho pursuing a straightforward course in thus
attacking officers in the Guards? Had the Guards done
their duty, orlha. I they not ? (Hear, hear.) They had,
and, having been connected with the army for 25 year.,
he could not sit there quietly and hear these pettifogging
charges made against a service to which he was proud to
belong. (Hear.) With regard to the clothing, no doubt
the change which had been made was a very proper one ;
but though that was so, he must decline to give the hen.
member for Lambeth the credit of it, which he wished to
claim, while he begged leave to tell the bon. and gallant
member that there were grave doubts whether the country
NN mild not lose by the change. At the same time, it was
only right that colonels of regiments should be relieved from
their clothing responsibilities, and their pay placed upon a
settled footing. (Hear, hoar.) He concurred most fully
with what had fallen from that hon. and gallant member
for Huntingdon (Gear d Peel.) Government had engaged
in the war without sufficient men or adequate materials for
carrying it on. They did it with their eyes open. They
did it after the military departments of the country had
been improperly reduced through the squabbling over the
estimates by men of the school to which the hon. member
for Lambeth belonged, and now that they had got into
war they found that their means were totally inadequate
for carrying it on. Ile said, then, that the iesponsibility
rested with the Government. If he was not misinformed,
in December, 1853. when war was line itieni, a conference
was held at the War-office, which was attended by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Secretary-at-War, the
-I`.liniiter for the Colonies, andCooreranadtetrheiniiChief.
Public rumour said the distinguished of
our army was called up,u by the conference to gievae as
opinion as to what number of men could be furnished, or
would be le-paired in case of emergency. "What number
that distinguished officer !mentioned he knew not ; but if
the general commandinL.ln-thief of the army advised the
executive government that he was totally deficient in every
material necessary ( a great war, then the
responsibility wa
rested upon a.
pon the Government was
r= a
doubly great. That was a question which ought to be
s fuse. (Hear.)
Lord SEYMOUR wished t_ say
one or two words rathere
in defence of an absent member than upon the details of
the estimates. The hon. and gallant member who had jute
sat down had told the committee that the state of the army

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