The National Register.
London, England, 1812-06-28 00:00:00

590

nate every Irish Bishop. The See of Rome, as at present existing,
and likely to exist, might give Buonapatte an opportunity of giviag the
Papal dignity to Cardinal Pesch. What influence might he not gain
by such means in Ireland ? He did not say that the existence of
foreign infltvnce should exclude them from the Constitution, but this
he said, that when they were admitted to the Constitution, they
ought to unite with us in protecting it against all foreign enemies.
In Spain, though the most bigotted country in Europe, it had been
thought necessary to guard against the influence of the Pope in the
affairs of the State. He thought, with the Catholics of Ireland, there
ought to exist no connection which was not avowed and notorious.
He had no objection to vote for the motion in its largest sense, and no
objection to the Catholics being admitted to the fullest participation in
the Constitution, provided the requisite securities are given. He only
desired that a declaration might be made, and this done, he was willing
to concede all they asked. He had no objection to the second resolu-
tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, which went to lay the resolution
then under consideration before the Prince Regent, if it went no
further; but if it was meant to advise the Crown to direct Ministers
to bring forward a measure in conformity with the wish of that reso-
lution, he could net agree to it. It would be a hard task to impose
upon a Government, to frame a measure according to the ideas of an
individual, under such circumstances as they would be called upon
to frame under, if they were called upon in the present instance.—
Hc of no disposition in any quarter of the Administration to
make it a Cabinet question. Every one took that part which his own
judgment dictated ; but where there was such a variety of opinions
en the subject, h.t. could not think the Government would be likely
to carry it so far as an individual. All he could say was, that holding
those opini.ns which he had entertained ever since the Union, which
were on record, and which he had never any disposition or occasion to
change, he was most anxious in his individual capacity to exert him-
self in or out of Parliament, in any way that might rive the Catholics
that tvhich they claimed, provided the measure could be accompanied
by those securities which the Protestants had a right to expect.-
1:pon the whole, the quention was not free from Constitutional dan-
ger, and though it might he difficult to devise adequate securities,
still, in the present state of the Catholic mind, and in the present
state of Papal power, it would he well to look at the difficulties
which opposed themselves to the measure, get over them if they
could, and it they could not, at least get so near the difficulties as to
be able to state in Parliament w here the measure " hitched," and
that ascertained, if the obstacle were inseparable, it would he seen
that Parliament had done what they could, and then he should hope
with that knowledge the public would be satisfied, and the question
settled and set at rest.
Mr. TIER NE Y augured ill for the Catholic Question, as the Noble
Lord thought it would be very hard to expect Government to bring a
measure for the relief of the Catholic.; in compliance with the wishes
of the House. He characterized the Government as weak, imbecile,
and changeable, censured them far taking no part in a question of such
importance, and hoped in the course of the summer they would come
to some detterniinat:on on the subject, and communicate the same to
the Catholics.

Mr. B. BA-1111;R sr defended the conduct of Ministers in not making
it a Cabinet Question, and maintained that Parliament was only
pledged to the consideretion of the question, and that the Government
was bound to propene tin spectic measure on the subject. fie should
vote against the motion.
Sir J. C. Htreist.r.v argued in favour of granting the Catholic
Emancipation, but contended that they had no right to expect to be
►laced in a situation different, with respect to the Pope and fbreign
influence, from that in which they must stand in Catholic countries.
Mr. PONSONBY condemned the conduct of Government in taking no
part in a question of such vast importance. If the Government would
not make it a Cabinet measure, the person on whom the task of origi-
nating a prop osition on the subject ought of right to devolve, was his
Right Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Grattan), and he was confident
that he would he assisted with all the talents of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman who had brought forward the motion. He rose principally to
say, that be for one was not disposed to press so far fur securities as
s ,nie persons were ; feeling as he did that in the grant, and in the con-
cessions themselves, the greatest of all securities was contained.
Mr. F ITZG DR to and Lord PALMERSTON supported the motion.
Sir C. Eon RILL, in consequence of the resolutions he had seen of
the aggregate meeting, opposed the motion.
Mr. WHITBREAD censured the Government, in strong terms, for
declining to advise the Prince Rtgent, as to the cause proper to be
tiken on this important subject. lie noticeal the different opinions
expressed by the Members or the C.Aihet, and thought they must pass
a very uneasy suintr.N..
Mr. W. Shave!! edited a few observations in favour of the Catholic

_
Mr. C Ann tNc bestowed a high tribute of praise on the character
and citations of the Right lion. Gentleman who had so often raised
kis voice in the cause (Mr. Grattan), anti expressed himself happy to
resign the task of carrying the wishes of the House, into his hands;
but at the same time, without derogating from any thing he had said
on the conduct and talents of that It ight Hon. Gentleman, he should
Le still more happy to see it in the hands of Government.
The Home Linn %rivaled on ?dr Casting's inutnnt, the Amendment

JUNE 28.

having been withdrawn. For the motion, 296; against it, 106. Ma.
jority, I...V.—Adjourned at three o'clock iu the morning.

TUESDAY, JONI 21
The Bermuda Trade Bill was read a third time and passed.
Lord BINNING moved the further consideration of the Report of
the Mail Coach Toll Exemption Repeal Bill.
Mr. Ra NKr s moved as an amendment, that the Report be taken
into farther consideration on that day three months.
A long discussion ensued, in which Sir C. Burrell, Sir G. Clerk,
Mr. 0. Williams, Sir F. Burdett, Mr. W. Dundas, Mr. Rose, Nlr.
Wrotreslv, Mr. G. Johnson, Lord A. Hamilton, Mr. Whitbread,
Mr. D. Giddy, Mr. W. Taylor, Mr. Banks, Lord Binning, and
Mr. H, me Sumner participated ; after which the House divided :
For the Motion, 47—Against it, 56—Majority, 9.
ORDERS IN COUNCIL.
Mr. BROUcit Aal Said, it was his painful duty, a few nights ago, to
call the attention of the House to the subject of the Orders in Coun.
cil, in a manner which he was happy to say was no longer necessary.
An order had been issued this day, by his Royal Highness in Council,
which, in his opinion, and in the opinion of all the friends with
whom he had consulted, was in every way satisfactory ..—(Hear, hear,
hear !)—He could not conclude without expressing his approbation
of the frank, manly, and limper conduct adopted by his Majesty's
Ministers. (Hear, hear !) To say more would be improper, as it
might be attributed to a 6, rt of triumph on his part, which he did
not feel ; but to say less would be unfair. He should repeat once
again, that he, as one of the p-blic, thanked them for their frank
and manly conduct. It was fit that such an acknowledgment should
proceed from that side of the House, because the fear of an ill-judged
triumph, he was persuaded, operated often to produce the continuance
of measures which would otherwise be abandoned. He trusted, that
the Revocation of the Orders in Council would produce a proper
dicer, and be taken as they were meant by a Government which he
hoped was naturally friendly to us. If, unfortunately, it should
happen that this was not the case, he should be the last man to say
that the Government of the country ought not to be supported. He
concluded with moving, that the Order of the Day for calling over
the House on Thursday next, should be discharged.
Lord CasTcratzwou expressed his satisfaction that the conduct of
Government appeared so satisfactory to the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman. He was all along aware that when the intentions of his Ma.
jesty's Government were understood, and freed from those miscon-
ceptions under which it had laboured, all unfavourable im-
pressions would be removed. He begged it might not be supposed,
atter the declaration of the Honourable Gentleman, that Government
had departed in any measure from their original intention as declared
in that House. The diflerence between them was, that he (LW
Castlereagh) preferred suspension to revocation, and the Hon. Gent.
would recollect that suspension was one course w bich he himself re-
commended. One of his motives for taking a particular time war,
that he thought it would be more convenient to 040 SC who were
Interested in the trade, to know the precise period of its duration.
With t his one exception, the measure was the same as that he intended.
Having guarded against any misconception on this head, he hoped
the Hon. Gentleman would not think that he was the less happy to
have received his approbation.
Mr. A. BRING made a few observations in approbation of the
conduct of Ministers, and congratulated the House and the country
on the step that had been adopted.
Sir FRANCIS BuarszaT approved of the conduct of Ministers, and
the ability and candour with which his Honourable Friend (air.
Brougham) had conducted the investigation to this happy issue—
agreeing in all that had been said by the Gentlemen who had pre-
ceded him—lie still begged leave to call the attention of Miniters
tho subject of the impressing of American seaman—and suggested
the propriety of an enquiry into the case of Williams.
Mr. GOLDRUaNE said, that entituly had been made, and that a
Right Honourable Friend of his, who would soon be in. the House,
wouldhe able to state the result.
Lord CASTLEREAGH assured the lion. Baronet that all cronmcni.
cations from America were attended to with that care wind) the
importance of the subject required, and that a list of all A menrir
seamen In the service was obtained iron/ the American Minister, t
the purpose of adopting such steps as would be satisfactory.
Mr. PONSON av cteclartai that, so far as he understood the Gazette,
it was to him perfectly satisfactory ; if America should persist io
unjust and unreasonable demands, though lie had constantly opp
the Orders in Council, his vote should not be wanting to thetniact-
men t of those measures winch might be necessary to the dignity and
character of the count ry.
Mr W stir aitaau expressed his heartf.lt satisfaction that the re-
vocation had taken place, and he had no doubt that it would be sue:
cesstut in preventing a rupture between the two countries. It wa:
impossible to notice the joy of the manutacturing charms un tit!
present occasion, without congratulating themselves on what had
been done. On returning to their estates, they would find the peoP,l
quiet, peaceable, and employed. It was unnecissaey to pay any corn-
Aliment to the manner in which his Lion. Friend (Mr. Brougham)
had conducted the investigation—the country knew it. When one,!
, country was in the right tea any disputtal queshout there cow*