The Sun.
London, England, 1855-05-26 00:00:00

we were wrong in inducing him, step by step, to adhere
to his demands until it was impossible to withdraw them
witaout a loss of honour. My lord,;, I thought it m 3
luty to state my views of the character of the late Em
oetor Nicholas, and of the origin of the war, 'hoping
that by doing so I might assist in mitigating that bitter
spirit which has been imported into this great question. I
consider that to wage an unnecessary war, or to continue
a war which is even just and necessary, for a single
hour, after the objects for which it was commenced are
obtained, is the greatest sin which any nation can com-
mit, and a sin for which every man, be his influence what
it may, has a share, if he neglects to check the commis-
sion of that sin, so contrary to the laws of God and
humanity. (Hear.) It is for these reasons that I am in
Muted earnestly to recommend to your lordships the mo
don which I have now the honour to submit, "That at,
humble address be presented to her Majesty, to thaua
her Majesty for having ordered the protocols of the re-
sent negotiations at Vienna to be laid before us ; to in-
tern' her Majesty that this house deeply deplores the
failure of the attempt to put an end by these negotiations
to the calamities of the war in which the country is now
engaged, and, to express our opinion that the pro-
posals of Russia were such as to afford a fair pros-
pect of concluding a peace by which all the original ob-
jects of the war might have been gained, and by which
her Majesty and her allies might have obtained all the
advantages which can reasonably be demanded Iron,
Russia."
The Earl of CLARENDON next addressed their lord.
ships, and said—l have listened to my noble friend with
all the respect and attention which he never fails to corn
mend in this house, and I think that his very long and able
speech has been characterised by his usual ability. If,
however, the noble earl has failed to convince your lord-
ships, it will certainly not be from any want of a strong
conviction on his part of the justice of the cause which be
has undertaken. I have no doubt whatever that the noble
earl conceived that in bringing forward this motion he had
a public duty to perform ; but, on the other hand, I
may be permitted to say that it was with deep regret
that I heard him propose his resolution, not less on
account of the terms in which it is couched, than my
conviction that if agreed to by your lordships it would
be productive of most serious mischief. (Loud cheers.)
The noble earl has laboured to prove that the war
in which we are engaged is neither a just nor a neces-
sary war. He has condemned the manner in which the
war has been carried on, and in which the negotiations
have been conducted, and has applauded the moderation
of the terms of the Russian plenipotentiaries, which he con-
siders should have been accepted. During the three and a
half hours in which he has proceeded in an uninterrupted
strain of applause as to the admirable course pursued by
Russia, every word which he has said in censure of her
Majesty's Government applies with equal force to the Go-
vernment of the Emperor of the French. The speech of
my noble friend, with all the authority of his name and
the great weight of his character and position, will be
widely published by the partizans of Russia without giving
any reply to the statements which he has made. (Hear.)
And my noble friend has, so far as in him lies, rendered
essential service to the Emperor of Russia in the course
he has taken. So far as depends upon my noble friend he
will have done his utmost to encourage the Emperor of
Russia to resist compliance with those demands which
England, France, and Austria, consider just, and which
it would have been honourable in Russia to have accepted,
and as far as in him lies the noble lord would represent
us to the world as in a state of division and weakness
In this latter point, however, I think the noble lord will
be disappointed, and thus will possibly end the mischief
which his speech was calculated to produce, because I
trust your lordships will this evening, by your majority,
agree with me in that negative with which I propose to
meet the motion of the noble lord, and prove to Russia
that the opinions that have been so often expressed in this
house have undergone no change, and are not now waver-
ing. I regret the time at which this motion has been
brought forward, not that I think that any great advantage
may arise from these proposals which are now under con-
sideration, and which I did not consider of sufficient im-
portance to induce me to ask the noble earl to postpone his
motion ; but it is for the interest of peace itself, the attain-
ment of which the Government has as much at heart as
the noble lord himself. If we are to be called upon to enter
into all the details of the negotiations of the day, to
defend all the proceedings of our plenipotentiaries, to
state what are the grounds upon which we think
alone peace should be made, I say that is a course
which will render negotiation more difficult, and, as nego-
tiation must precede peace, may consequently cause peace
itself to suffer by premature discussions. (Cheers.) I shall
not follow the noble earl in his remarks upon the contents
of the blue-books laid before your lordships last year, but
—and this I think will be of more interest and importance
to your lordships—l will refer to the deductions which he
has made from these despatches, and the attempts which
he has made to prove that we are engaged in an unjust and
unnecessary war. The solitary expression of blame which
he employed against Russia was its occupation of the
Principalities, although even for that the noble lord found
something in the nature of an apology. Now, I contend
that the war in which we are engaged is in strict confor-
mity with the law of nations, and is supported by the
ablest writers on the subject. Vattel says :—" By the law
of nations it is laid down as a principle that war is just
and lawful which is to avenge or prevent injury. Wide
once a state has given proof of injustice, rapacity, pride,
ambition, or any imperious thirst of rule, she becomes
an object of suspicion to her neighbours, whose duty it is
to stand on their guard against her. They may come upon
her when she is at the moment of acquiring a formidable
accession of power—may demand securities, and if she hesi-
tates to give them, may prevent her designs by force of
arms. Must we delay to avert our ruin until it becomes
inevitable? If the appearances are so easily credited, it is
the fault of that neighbour who has betrayed his ambition
by severalindicetions. Should that formidable power betray
an unjust and ambitious disposition by doing the least in-
justice to another, all nations may avail themselves of the
occasion, anti by joining the injured party thus form a coali-
tion of strength, in order to humble that ambitious poten-
tate, and disable him from so easily oppressing his neigh-
bours, or keeping them in continual awe and fear—for an
injury gives us a right to provide for our future safety, by
depriving the unjust oppressor of the means of injuring
us ; and it is lawful, and even praiseworthy, to assist those
who are oppressed or unjustly attacked. When a neigh-
bour in midst of a profound peace erects fortresses on our
frontiers, equips a fleet, augments his troops, assembles a
powerful army, fills his magazines—in a word, when he
makes preparations for war, are we allowed to attack him
with a view to prevent the danger with which we think
ourselves threatened? The answer greatly depends on the
manners and character of that neighbour. We must in-
quire into the reasons of those preparations, and bring him
to an explanation. Such is the mode of proceeding in
Europe; and if his sincerity be justly suspected, securities
may be demanded of him. His refusal in that case would
furnish ample indication of sinister designs, and a sufficient
reason to justify us in anticipating them." My noble
friend in his eulogies upon Russia dwelt upon the forbear-
ance which it had shown towards Turkey, but he omitted
to state what had been the constant and uniform policy
of Russia towards Turkey. I will inform the house
of the extent and nature of the territory wrung from
Turkey by Russia during the past century. "In 1774
the fortresses of Kertch and Yenicale with their dis-
tricts in the Crimea, Kinburn and its district, the desert
between the Bug and the Dnieper, the town and district
of Azoff, and the two Kabadins is Circassia, were ced- d
by Turkey to Russia by treaty. In 1.83 the Crimea, the
island of Taman, and Cuban Tartary were annexed to the
Russian empire by a manifesto of the Empress Catherine.
In 1774 Turkey acknowledged, by treaty, the River Cuban
as the boundary of Russia. In 1792 the fortress of Oczakow
and the country between the Bug and the Dniester were
ceded by Turkey to Russia by treaty. In 1812 a part of
Moldavia ; the fortresses of Chotchim and Bender, Bessa-
rabia, with Ismail and Kilia • and the left bank of the
Pruth, from its entrance into Moldavia, were ceded by
Turkey to Russia by treaty. In 829 a part of the pacha-
lie of Akhaltzick, and all the littoral of the Black Sea,
from the mouth of the Cuban to port St. Nicholas, and
the islands at the month of the Danube, were ceded by.
Turkey to Russia by treaty. In 1834 the Russian terri-
tories, from the port of St. Nicholas to the province
of Georgia, were extended by treaty with Turkey." This
then is the power which, according to my noble friend,
has acted with so much candour and forbearance towards
Turkey. We all knew what was the opinion of the late
Emperor Nicholas with respect to the state of that nation.
We know that he said " nothing could save the sick man,"
and the mission of Prince Menschikoff was intended to give
the coup de grace to the sick man, not by resorting to vio-
lent means, but by slow poison. By the misiuterpretation
of the treaty of Kainardji the Emperor sought to secure
another treaty or instrument by which the right of inter-
ference between the Sultan and his subjects should be se-
cured to Russia, who would thus obtain a virtual sove-
reignty over ten or twelve millions of the most enterpris-
ing, the most active, and most intelligent subjects of the
Sultan. Since the time of the occupation of the principal-
it'es we have heard a great deal more of .the intentions of
Russia, and the mode lu which .ho aooka to parry them
into effect. We know now the vast resources of Russia, and
how stealthily she has been at work for years accumulat-
ing those resources. The fortresses at Sebastopol and Bo-
inarsund were a standing menace to Europe. The whole
of Europe was in reality standing over a mine, while the
vast power of Russia had either paralysed the states of
Europe, or blinded them to their real danger. Every Go-
vernment of Europe has been in part to blame for permit-
ting this state of things. For the last 25 years there has
been an amount of deference paid to Russia to which she
had no right or claim, and she has been allowed to pry into
and meddle with the affairs of every country. Her con-
duct has at times been denounced, but nobody considered
it his business to interfere effectually, and Europe gene-
rally was unaware of the danger which menaced it until
the mine was suddenly exploded by Prince Menschikoff.
The entire possession of the Sound was one of the great
objects of Russia. and her Government had ordered a very
large increase of her steam fleet, and the whole of her
sailing ships of the line were about to be converted into
screws, and she was actively engaged beforo the breaking
out of the war in the completion of a system of railway
communication which would have had the effect of doub
ling the effective power of her military forces. With
Constantinople and the Bosphorus in the hands of Russia,
what, I would ask, would be the fate of all the nations
bordering on the Black Sea ? All the commerce of the
West with those countries would soon be brought to an end
(Cheers.) What would have been the fate of Europe itself
if the Russian fleet were no longer looked np in the Black
Sea ? With the full possession of the Sound, and her
fleets no longer ice-bound for six months in the year, all
Europe would he in the hands of this Colossus. And it is
no small thing that we were upon the eve of seeing this
bold design of universal empire all but universally ac-
knowledged. The first act of the present Emperor was to
declare that he was determined to place the Russian em-
pire upon the highest pinnacle of glory and power, and
fully to carry out all the plans of his predecessors, the Em-
press Catherine and the Emperor Nicholas. The policy
of Russia has undergone no change. It is the same noiV
as it was twenty-five years ago, when the father of the
noble earl who brought ferward this motion, referring
et or thete d gfreeragt
vairnmg i apse
ale
hc haor
al nest e
rwi
sheipthweepreeacsaeiadst,?tbhee
peace of the grave, and the silence of the tomb." (Cheers.)
If ever there was a war which was just, net:les:aryl. and
unavoidable, it is that into which England a d F ance
htiaavtieonno
tow dnerelibseerravteelpyoeanoteewreittli:
es
eanl 1
mt the
Lei
emboyr more justgos
and necessary because every efforatnhdoailt
the real cause of the war, and made it unavoidable,
repent
believe that the people of this country do not
out having.recourtie tanhd
tili'ies. The unbending pride of Russia A was that was
having kite red-intci-the preseht conflict. If there red
thing itn&smcoorune ttryan, characterisesiatniosthaerkewenhiscehnseofnatjon
a-sticingletierraination" Ifot to 'submit to snythius.Which
al hot oe urP,Pie

ties, those two States, before employing force, should put
the other powers in a position to anticipate their resort to
this extreme remedy. On these two articles,
of the which we
re
intended to carry into effect the first part thi
point, no difficulty whatever arose, excepting an observa-
tion made by Russia, articlese was not to be considered
as bound by the she had concurred in,
to take up arms in all cases on behalf of the Turkish
empire. The other powers recorded their regret at this
result, but I roust say, in my opinion, without any just
foundation. On the contrary, I think the reserve of
Russia on this point was only wise and just, and I wish
it had been imitated by our own plenipotentiaries
Russia said; and I think with unanswerable force, that
the blood of Russia belongs to Russia, and is to be she(
only for Russian interests, and therefore she would not
bind herself in all possible cases to take up arms in de-
fence of Turkey. These unlimited engagements to go
to war in defence of other countries are, in my opinion,
always imprudent and dangerous, but singularly so ie
the case of Turkey—an empire composed of such
heterogeneous materials, and of which the ultimate dis-
solution is absolutely certain, and a mere question
of time. The course of Russia on this point, there-
', fore, appears to me to have been infinitely wiser
and more prudent than our own. Next, as to the
second part of the third point, relative to the prepon-
derance of Russia in the Black Sea. England and France I
on the one side, said they would be content with
nothing short of the limitation of her naval force in that
sea; whilst to this, on the other hand, Russia would
not cement, maintaining that her preponderance would
be sufficiently diminished by the two articles already
agreed to, as well as by an important alteration of the
treaty of 1841, in respect to the right of Turkey to bring
foreign ships of war into the straits of the Dardanelles
and Bosphorus. By that treaty this right was withheld
except in times of actual war. Russia proposed that,
maintaining the general principle of the closure of the I
straits, Turkey should ha, e a right to open them to the ,
fleets of any of her allies, whenever she censidered herself '
to be menaced, a conjuncture of which she herself was to
be the sole judge. Austria was of opinion that the propo-
sals of Russia offered fair grounds for discussion, and might
have led to some settlement of the question. In order to
form a judgment whether • her Majesty's Government
were right in closing the door on further negotiation, we
must compare the effect of the two proposals, and also
consider whether that right admitted by Russia was not.
capable of further modification, and of being rendered
still more advantageous to this country. What is really
meant by the phrase of limiting the preponderance of
Russia in the Black Sea is, that her great naval power
should be rendered no longer a source of just apprehen-
sion to Turkey. To me, there appears great force in the
remark ef Prince Gortschakoff, that this object would
be attained by the articles already concluded. It is sug-
gested that an attack may be made on Turkey with a
large maratime force from Sebastopol, carrying a consi-
derabletbody of troops. Of course it must be supposed
that this is not a very easy affair, nor capable of being ac-
complished in a moment. You must have very little faith
in the assertions constantly heard as to the improvements
going on in the Turkish empire—you must think even
still more meanly than I do of the strt ngth of Turkey, if,
with all the facilities that exist for fortifying the entrance
to the Bosphorus and the approach to Constantinople, If,
with the great population and resources of the country,
you believe that Russia could venture upon an enterprise
of this kind without vessels capable of conveying
40,000 or 50,000 troops, with a respectable artillery.
Now, we know from our own recent experience that,
even with all our vast mercantile marine and magnificent
steamers, to collect the means of moving an army of
that force is not a work which can be performed in a
moment, but is one of great-difficulty and expense, and
not to be accomplished in secret. The agents of her
Majesty's Government in Turkey could not fail to know
what was in agitation long before it was completed, so
that, under the other provision by which Turkey was to
be enabled to call in the aid of her allies, there would
be ample time to come to her assistance. Knowing the
risks with which an operation of this sort would be at-
tended, I cannot help feeling very confident that it would
not be attempted by Russia,, and that if it were, it
would be defeated by the intervention of the allies of
Turkey. (Hear, hear.) I grant that, if the time should
ever arrive when, from differences between the nations
of Europe, the western powers should not be prepared
to assist Turkey against the attacks of Russia, or if
one of them should be prepared to join in a plan of
iniquitous spoliation, in a case of that kind the Russian
fleet in the Black Sea would be a source of immediate
apprehension to Turkey. But in the case supposed,
would the limitation of the Russian fleet be sufficient to
preserve Turkey from the sudden destruction which
would menace her. One must be sanguine, indeed to
suppose so. It is obvious that, if you believe Russia
really intends to fuifil the solemn engagements into
which she has entered, the two articles concluded really
accomplish all your objects • it is only on the assump-
tion that she is faithless, and does not mean to observe
those engagements, that any further security is required.
But o that assumption I ask what is the value of
this limitation of the Russian force in the Black Sea ?
Would that provision be worth the paper on which
it is written ? It is evident that no stipulation would
be more easily open to evasion. (Hear, hear.) A
faithless power would have no difficulty whatever in
augmenting her naval force to a much greater extent
than the treaty permitted. As long as Russia maintains
naval establishments and dockyards, she must be allowed
to rep sir her old ships, to build others to take their
places when worn out, to turn them over to be used as
zonvict hulks, and for other such purposes. It would be
easy for her to have ships completely fitted and pre-
pared, ready for launching at a moment's notice, to keep
two or three crews attached to each of the ships kept
afloat, and practised in succession in the Black Sea, or
sailors might be brought across from the Baltic during
winter. You cannot offer any obstacle to the extension
by Russia of her commercial marine ; and I ask my
noble friend if there is any force she could keep up half
so dangerous to Turkey as a vast fleet of steam gun-
boats,
each capable of carrying one or two heavy guns,
and a force of 200 or 300 soldiers, for a voyage of a few
days ? But the treaty, in the very words as drawn up
by yourselves, opposes no difficulty whatever to Russia
providing a force of this kind to the full extent of her
pecuniary resources. The gun-boats might he kept at
Taeanrog, Odessa, and other peas of the Black Sea,
really the property of the Government, but nominally
of the merchants, so that on the shortest notice they
could be assembled at Sebastopol. It appears to me
that my noble friend, in urging the precedent of the de-
molition of Dunkirk under the treaty of -Utrecht in 1713,
selected a very unfortunate instance. This provision of
the treaty has always been considered as a very great
humiliation for Louis XIV., and was imposed only after
the fortune of that sovereign had been reduced to the
lowest ebb by a series of military disasters. Besides, so
little effective was that provision, that in 1744 France
fitted out a great army against England from this very
port, and in the debates of 1783 Lord Shelburne, when
charged with having abandoned the provisions of former
treaties relative to the port of Dunkirk, exclaimed, " If
I was wrong in departing from those provisions, all
former Ministers were wrong in not enforcing them."
While this stipulation was worthless to the allies, was
it not open to the just objections of Russia I. She said it
was an insult to an independent nation to call upon her
to limit her fleet. I think this view a reasonable and
sound one, and can call your lordships' attention to
high authority in support of it. In 1813, when the
Emperor Napoleon was driven almost to extremity by
the defeat of Leipsic, and was treating for peace, it was
proposed that his dominions should be reduced to the
ancient limits of France, and a noble friend of mine,
whose absence to-night, as well as the indisposition that
causes it, I much regret (the Earl of Aberdeen), was
charged with the conduct of the negotiations on the
part of this country. He was instructed by Lord Castle-
reagh
that on no account should Antwerp be left in the'
possession of France, which the British Secretary of
State said would be little short of imposing on Great
Britain the charge of a perpetual war with France,
adding, "We do not wish to impose any dishonourable
conditions on France, which limiting the number of her
ships would be, but she must not be left in possession
of this point." So that the depriving France of Ant-
werp, after all the vast sums expended on its dockyards
and arsenals, was considered less humiliating to her
pride than would have been a proposal for limiting the
number of her ships of war. I think an opinion of
this kind, without any reference to the question
now pending, is a preitty—eLear—proef that to ask an
independent nation to limit the force she keeps us, is an
insult and a degradation to her. In the case of Russia
it is a very great insult and degradation, for the only
conceivable value you can attach to the provision is, that
it will be the means of preventing a breach of faith on
her part. Therefore, in asking Russia to consent to this
provision, you ask her to direct her ambassador to put
his hand to a treaty declaring and acknowledging their
own want of faith.. That is a great objection on the part
of Russia to this limitation ; but there are of course
others. Far example, it is not impossible that, some
time or other, Russia may be the ally of Turkey against
one or both of the Western Powers, and in fact the first
commencement of the armament of Russia previous to
the present contest was to support Turkey against the
menaces of the French minister. There has been great
exaggeration, I repeat, with regard to the acts and con-
duct of Russia. It was an exaggeration to say
that she had 4een guilty of an unprovoked aggres-
sion ; there is no ground for saying so, , while there
is still less. ground for saying that she was guilty of
fraud in keeping her claim out of sight, for the demand
of Russia to protect the Greek Church has been avowed
in the plainest and strongest language from the very
outset. I find that as long ago as December 1852, Col.
Rose reported that, Russia claimed the right under the
treaty of Kainardji ; then again, after that Sir Hamilton
Seymour reports from St. Petersburg that the Emperor
claimed to exercise this protection over millions of
Christians who were subjeets of the Sultan ; and Lord
John Russell, in a despatch subsequently written, admits
in terms that this claim of the Emperor was " prescribed
by duty, and banctioned by treaty." How, then, can
you contend that Russia was guilty of a fraudulent con-
cealment of her claim ? I think the occupation of the
principalities was a wrongful act. But if Russia was
in the wrong, was there no allowance to bo made
for her I We had made many and grievous blun-
ders, and we should not be too severe in criticising
Russia for this. The late emperor was a man in whom,
I muss say, notwithstanding that I know it is unpopu-
lar,dereoine
that I saw, in spite of many faults, many good quali-
ties. I think he was sincerely devoted to what be be-
lieved to be the welfare of his people. I believe that no
selfish gratification or mean motive actuated him in un-
calm and Chri
the unwearied labour of governing his great
empire. When I read the touching account of the last
scene, I cannot believe hours of the Emperorst Nicholas—when I contemplate the
—arid wherk .1:1n in which he met his mortal eras
ery were faults wbiev: is conduct throughout that awful
that to that man fraud and treacla-
he was greatly wrong couldfo be justly imputed. I think
departure of Prince Ariensvciiiis violent conduct after the
ikoff, but I also tliink grit

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 26 1855,

they deem a national disgrace.' (Cheers.) It was with
these objects the war was undertaken, and to those
ehjects we still adhere, viz., that of maintaining the in-
tegrity and independence of Turkey, and not alone to
protect Turkey, but to guard Europe against the ambi-
tious designs of Russia, These objects, we think, can be
secured by annulling all the treaties between Russia and
Turkey ; by causing the protectorate of Russia over the
principalities to cease ; by removing all the obstacles in
the way of the free navigation of the Danube ; by connect-
ing Turkey more closely with the family of European na-
tions ; by causing the preponderance of Russia to cease in
the Black Sea ; and by preventing Russia from having
any exclusive rights of interference between the Sultan
end his subjects. (Cheers.) If these bases of negotiations
had been honestly accepted and acted upon, they would
eeve secured the objects which we had in view on entering
upon this great struggle. The manner in which the defence
of Sebastopol has been carried on without having the op-
eortunity of sending a single gun by sea, by relying solely
in the resources accumulated in that port, are proofs of the
langers to which Turkey was exposed from Russia. From
Archangel to Sebastopol, from Bomarsund to Petropaulov-
eki—everywhere in fact there is the same accumulation of
military stores, the same protection and defence, and the
same proof that Russia must havebeen a ware that the policy
which she was pursuing would at some time excite the alarm
end unite the efforts of all Europe against her. (Cheers.) All
'hat we wished to obtain was such a diminution of the
l'orcee of Russia as should secure the safety of Turkey, and
efford no danger to the liberties of Europe. In reply to our
demands, Russia said, " We will not submit to this, nor
permit any interference with what we consider our own
sovereignty in our own territory, and we claim the right
to accumulate and even to develops all those means of ag-
gression which in principle are quite untenable." It is not,
contend, derogatory to the dignity of such a country to
reduce her armaments if she really intends to restore con-
fidence, and not to justify the suspicious which are enter-
tained of her motives. The noble lord has referred to the
statement made at the conference of Vienna, by Prince
Gortschakoff, to the effect that it would be impossible to
land 16,000 men in Turkey from the Crimea with any seri-
ous consequences to the integrity of that country. I believe,
on the contrary, that such a force suddenly brought before
Constantinople would be the greatest blow which that coun-
try has ever yet received ; it would be accompanied by ap-
peals to the passions and feelings of a large portion of the
most excited and discontented subjects of the Porte, and
there would very soon be an end to the Mussulman dy-
nasty in Europe. But Russia also proposed that the straits
should be opened indiscriminately to all the powers. and
that the Russian fleet should have free access to the Medi-
terranean, and thus acquire the means of disturbing the
Greek inhabitants of the Levant islands ; and she pro-
posed also that the Porte should be able to call the Allied
fleets into the Black Sea whenever it was threatened. But
the safety of Turkey would always be in danger from such a
fleet, as Russia and the allies would never be able to say
that the apprehensions of the Porte; whenever they were
called upon, were groundless, or that the call for assistance
should be listened to. The result of this would be, as the
re ward and r eturn of all the cost and sacrifice which We have
made in this war, that England and France would indirectly
bind themselves by treaty to have a large force always in
the Mediterranean ready at the cell of the Sultan, and would
thus enter into securities to make Russia keep the peace,
while Russia would give no corresponding security to
keep the peace. England and France would, in fact, con-
stitute themselves the watchmen of Europe, and be re-
quired perpetually to keep their fleets upon a war footing.
But whether the fleets of the allies welt in the Mediterra-
nean or at home, they would never be able to arrive in
time to protect Constantinople from tt e effects of a well-
organised and well-arranged attack on the part of Russia.
The Government of Russia still claims her right to be a
standing, menace to Europe, and has refused to join with
the other powers in guaranteeing the independence of Tur-
key, and she has no right to say that by the concessions
which she has made, merely for the purpoee of conceding
something to German interests, she has fulfilled those duties
with respect to European interests which have led to the
just and necessary war in which we are now engaged.
The Russian fleet is powerless to Russia, except in the
Black Sea, as a menace to Turkey, and as an engine to
carry out her designs against that country. (Cheers.) I
can only add that if it is our good fortune to restore to the
country the blessings of peace, I trust it will be only such a
peace as will meet the approbation of your lordships and
that of the country at large. (Hear.)
The Earl of MALMESBURY said that he consiiered
the question then before the house as one so far removed
from party politics that, although he could not be expected
to be an energetic supporter of the Government, he would
have come almost any distance, and at almost any incon-
venience, to record his vote against the motion of the noble
earl. In the address which the noble earl proposed, he
stated that the original objects of the war might have been
gained by the recent negotiations, but had not b ,en attained.
Now, he did not agree with the nobleea.rl in that, because he
did not think that the original objects of the war were suffi-
ciently touched by the negotiations recently carried on at
Vienna. Mischievous as was the speech in which the noble
earl had introduced his motion, the only danger to which
the country was now exposed did not arise from that speech.
The same opinions were expressed on the previous evening
in the other house by a man equally looked up to for
his talents—he would not say for his consistency or
the sincerity of his convictions—end, perhaps, even sur-
passing the noble earl in the gifts of oratory and eloquence.
He did not know how far he might be permitted to refer
to what took place in another place, but he would say that
no later since than the previous evening he dreamt that he
heard a man he had always admired as almost the greatest
orator of the day address an august assembly in a tone,
with words, ',and with a colour: and distortion of the
facts of the case worthy of a Russian minister, and which
if lie had been a Russian minister would have obtained for
him every cross in the gift of the Emperor but that of St.
Andrew. He felt so hureiliated, pained, and distressed as
an Englishman, at what he heard, that he could hardly
believe his hearing until be read this morning's journal,
and found his dream realised word for word. (A laugh.)
He trusted that the sentiments of the Government
were such as might be deduced from the speech of the
noble earl (the Earl of Clarendon), and that the Govern-
ment were fully determined to accede to no terms of
peace not fully as strong or even stronger than those
rejected by Russia at Vienna. The country bad entered
into the present war with a full belief in the justice of our
c tuse. The spirit of our officers and the bravery of our sol-
diers had never been surpassed since England was a king-
dom, and we only wanted vigour, determination,andunity
on the part of her Majesty's Government. (Hear, hear.)
He hoped, if the noble earl divided the house, that the di:
vision would show unequivocally the opinion of that house,
for such a division would be most important before the
public opinion of Europe.
The Duke of ARGYLL said that-the arguments of his
noble friend who had brought forward this motion tended
to show that, since the beginning of this struggle, we had
been continually increasing our demands, and that while
Russia had shown a conciliatory we had displayed an ar-
rogant, spirit. Now, no argument could be more unjust.
He really did not know whether it was the intention of
his noble friend to convey that impression—
Earl GREY—Certainly not.
The Duke of ARGYLL said that the speech of his noble
friend was, however, calculated to convey it. With regard
to the disposition Russia had shown to accept reasonable
terms from the allies, he exceedingly regretted the tone of
his noble friend's speech, which was an out-and-out defence
of Russian moderation, and as such would hey° an exceed.
ingly bad effect, and must produce a re-action. He could
assure his noble friend that though he was an earnest sup-
porter of the cause of peace when the great objhts for
which we had undertaken the war were attained,
yet he could not consider that the concessions of Russia
were sufficient to place those objects within our reach, or
to satisfy our national interests and honour.
Lord LYTTELTON agreed in the terms of the motion,
but not in all the views which had been stated by the noble
earl who brought it forward.
The Biebop of OXFORD felt that the appeal addressed by
the noble earl to the right reverend bench ought to meet
with some answer in words before they proleeded t i a divi-
sion on his resolution. He could not vote for the proposed
address, because he did not think it would tend to advance
the object which the noble earl had so much at heart.
The speech made by the noble earl went even further than
his motion, in throwing the blame of the war upon Eng-
land and her respected ally. It was our bounden duty to
examine whether the war now proceeding was of such a
character that it could properly be described as an appeal
to the tribunal of God for justice, which there was no
earthly tribunal to enforce. Every war, to be justifiable,
ought, in his view, to be resolvable into one of self-de fence.
He (the Bishop of Oxford) did not wish that the English
people should be ready to quit any war in a dishonourable
manner, or without the success which their arms merited;
and he, therefore, must deplore the disparaging language
that had been used respecting this campaign, because it
would make peace more difficult of attainment, consistently
with the honour of England.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE had listened to mach that
had passed with very sincere pain. When he first saw the
notice of the noble earl, he apprehended that little but
mischief could arise from the discussion of tlee question
which he raised, but those anticipations of evil were greatly
aggravated by the speech that was delivered by his noble
friend that evening ; for throughout the whole of thdat
speech he had so greatly extenuated, he might savy defende,
every act of the.r enemy, and dwelt so heavily upon every
act they had themselves committed, that he was afraid the
result could not be, otherwise thansto peat eatent the
result
the people of this country. (Hear, hear.) He (the
Duke of Newcastle) thought that was a serious evil, and
th ,t it was likely to lower them in the eyes both of the
Allies awl of their enemies. (Hear, hear.) He used these
observations most sincerely in the interests of peace, be-
cause he conscientiously believed that the speech which his
noble friend had addressed that evening was far more cal-
culated to postpone that peace which they most heartile,
desired to see than any of the declarations of the most vio-
lent friends of war that could bo delivered in any assembly.
That speech must have the effect of encouraging Russia in
the efforts she was making and the demands she was put-
ting forth. It might, perhaps, even induce her to with-
draw from the concessions she had already expressed her
entire willingness to make. (Hear.) If that was to be its
effect upon their enemy, what was likely to be its effect on
their friends? (Hear, hear.) What was the condition of
Germany ? Germany was divided on the question, but
nevertheless they had many friends to their cause amongst
the states of Germany; but when such sentiments were ex-
pressed, not by an insignificant individual, but by one oc-
cupying a high position in the house and in the country—
one bearing also a great and historic name—was it not cal-
culated to paralyse Germany, turn tam were their
friends against them, and encourage those who were already
against them to persevere in their hostility? (Hear.) Then
again, what was likely to be the effect in France? (Hear )
Must not a great number of the people of France look with
alarm at the discussion that had taken place ? Was it not
likely that the people of France would say, " What security
have we that the English will not desert us in a very short
period of time 2" And were not the people of France likely
to be deterred by that consideration from a continuance in
that firm and fixed alliance which they bad hitherto dis-
played? (Hear.) He (the Duke of Newcastle) was sure,
from the spirit of the people of this country, that an at-
tempt to defend the actions and conduct of their enemy
was more likely to instigate them to express a desire for
war than any other course they could possibly take. That
feeling would prevent any Government, however desirous
it might be for peace, from effecting that object, even
though it should be a Government as anxious for peace as
the present Government must be, unless it had departed
from the opinions which it entertained when heeled the
honour to be a member of it. (Hear.) The speech of his
noble friend was in fact calculated to throw difficulties in
the way of that important object which he was sure his
noble friend had warmly at heart. He (the Duke of New-
castle) felt there was no vain love of military glory enter-
tainedsanguinaryin
pconflictse for
fir
rtehde t
om:erl ee b pr
autreptohs
ee
by the people of this country ; they had no desire for
voifcthoeryariorigthtehi3r
arms—their wishes generally, be believed, rather tended to
peace, but they did not think- that they had yet obtained
the great object for- which they "had entered into this war.
(Hear, hear.) If he had listened to the speech of his noble
friend with pain,- be bad also beard with considerable pain

the resolution which he had called upon them to adopt.
It was not for them to take into consideration the rumours
to which his noble friend hail referred as to Russia being
disposed to couceila something more. He (the Duke of
Newcastle) must confess he could not agree that the coun-
ter-proposition made by Russia was one which was in
any degree calculated to obtain the objects of the war.
(Hear) He could not see how the limitation of the ships
of Russia in the Black Sea was such an indignity to Russia
that it was inconsistent with her honour to accept it.
(Hear.) But they were not obliged to look upon the question
in that point of view, because it was one of the four bases
which Russia had accepted, and it was only the mode of
carrying it out which she refused to adopt. He could not
see in the counter-proposition of Russia any equivalent for
this proposition respecting the limitation of her preponder-
ance in the Bieck Sea. He could not see in the counter-
proposition any security at all. (Hear.) The counter-
proposition of Russis was really one for her own advan-
tage. (Hear ) Putting aside the question of limits( ion,
what did she offer ? She. proposed that they should regard
the Black Sea as a mare c/ausunt, anl adopt the status quo
ante bellum, with this exception, that the Turkish Govern-
ment should not wait for a declaration of war, but should
when it liked call for the assistance of any other power.
But Turkey might some day " call those spirits from the
vasty deep" when there would be no one to answer her. If
that proposition was accepted, they should, as his noble
friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs had said,
keep a lerge fleet in the immediate neighbourhood. It was
the way to create a perpetual element of discord. There
would be a perpetual state of semi-war, and if this state of
semi-war were departed from, there would be a call in the
H 011,3 of Commons for a diminution of their fleet. There
would be a return 'to the state in which they had been
before, when they bad only three or four vessels of war in
the Mediterranean, which were locked up for a month in
the harbour of Valetta. What, be asked, would be the
condition of Turkey if that should again be their position
at a period when she demanded their assistance?
The Earl of DER 3Y said—My lords, I had little wish to
intrude upon your lordships when the noble duke ruse, and
I have still less a desire to do so now, because, since I have
heard the speech of the noble duke I may say there is not
one syllable in it to which I can dissent, or which does not
entirely express the views and opinions which I entertain
with regard to the war. (Hear.) I think, my lords, that
a proposition like that which is now before us, involving
as it does matter of so much importance, should not have
'been brought forward at this moment, but the opinions by
which it has been accompanied are peculiarly unfortunate,
because, while they are at variance with the opinions of
the country-, they are calculated to encourage the preten-
sions of Russia, and therefore I should be sorry that such,
a speech went forth to Europe without some expression
of your lordships' feeling. (Hear.) But, my lords, al-
though I am disposed to think that the noble earl has ex-
ercised a sound discretion in abstaining from going to a
division on this question, I yet think that if he had only
desired to place his own opinions fairly before the peers of
England, and fairly before the country and the world, he
either ought not to have brought forward such a motion as
this, and this time, or he ought to have made his motion
nugatory by going to a division upon it. Because where we
have the poison of the argument, we ought, at all events,
to have the antidote of the division. It is desirable that
there should be no mistake on this subject, and if the noble
earl doubts my opinion on the matter, let him go to a divi-
sion, and I am sure there are not a dozen, nay, I may say
a half-dozen members out of the five hundred and fifty
members of your lordships' house, who would not give a
negative to the motion. (Hear, hear.) I regret very
much the manner in which this motion has been brought
forward. I could have desired that Ministers should
have taken the course dictated by practice, and the
n gotiations having closed for all substantial purposes, your
lordships' opinion ought to have been taken, on the ques-
tion when the pipers were laid on the table. I cannot
regret that in laying these papers on the table, Ministers
did not express, as they might have done if they had been
so disposed, their regret that these negotiations had not led
to a substantial issue ; for then they might have received—
as I am confident they would have done—the assurance
that this and the other house of Parliament would give
them their combined support in the vigorous prosecution
of the war. (Cheers.) The terms of the resolution go to
express an opinion that the house still entertains a lively
hope that the conference of Vienna would lead to peace ;
but I confess I have no such hope or desire. I believe,
with the noble duke, that the people of this country are
anxious for peace, but at the same time they are deter-
mined that the war shall be carried on until peace shall be
obtained upon honourable terms, and I think the terms pro-
nosed by Russia, if they hail been assented to, would not
hays givenus lithe -ecurity thatwehave a right to demand.
(Hear.) If I lock back to what might have been done be-
' fore the war was actually commenced, I cannot help feel-
ing that if a more determined front had been shown to
Russia in the first instance, she would have been reluctant
to enter upon the war. (Hear.) I agree with the noble
earl that Russia did not desire war in the first instance ;
she was rather bent upon obtaining her object at all cost,
and, if possible, without a recourse to the force of arms,
but the more you delayed offering a determined opposition
the better she became prepared for war when the time
'came for declaring it. (Hear.) The feeling of Russia for
continuing at peace was sitcere, no doubt; but we ought
to have addressed to her an uncompromising declaration
that we understood her projects, and if she persevered in
those projects, she would only be exciting the determined
hostility of the two great western powers. lam perfectly
persuaded that if such a tone had been adopted towards
Russia we should be placed in a much more favourable
position than we are in now. The Governm-nt were
quite aware what the ulterior objects of Russia were, and
from that moment it became their duty to convey to Russia,
in unequivocal terms, that those objects could not be tole-
rated. But the question you have now to consider is, what
course England ought to take in order to bring this war to
a speedy and honourable termination. Now, my lords, upon
th it question I do not undervalue the concessions which
Russia has been compelled to make by the yeller of our
men and the progress of our arms. I do not undervalue
her withdrawing from the principalities. Ido not under-
value her readiness to ooncede independent Governments
to Moldavia and Wallachia, in her desire to secure the
free navigation of the Danube, though the latter project is
not new; because, although it has been the practice of
Russia to obstractthat stream, it was yet the bounden duty
of Russia, under treaties, to take care that its navigation
was open and free to the whole world. (Hear.) I say, my
lords, I neither undervalue those objects, nor do I pre-
tend to say that they are incomplete in themselves, but
the main object for which we entered on the war was to
secure the integrity of Turkey; and my complaint withre-
gard to the third point is not that we asked too much, but
that we asked too little. (Hear.) For in the progress of
the war changes have taken place in our demands, and we
are justified in increasing those demands by the altered
circumstances in which we are now placed. What we ori-
ginally demanded might have been reasonable enough
before we went to war, but having drawn the sword and
lavished fifty millions of treasure, besides sacrificing the lives
of twenty thousand of our valuaole subjects, we have a right
to demand more ; but I must say, also, that there has been
a material alteration in the character of the war since the
original demands were made. At first we were told that
the war was to be thoroughly defensive, the simple object
being the protection of Turkey and securing the free navi-
gation of the Danube, and up to that period we might
have been satisfied with less demands than could be
now accepted with honour or security to ourselves;
but, from the moment that you commenced an aggressive
war—from the moment you gave effect to the decla-
rations of the Government that a stop must be put, to
the preponderance and ambition of Russia—it was needless
to talk about our propositions being humiliating to Russia.
The noble lord opposite holds the opinion that, anything
which reduced her power or strength must be humiliating
to Russia • but you were pl-dged to accomplish that humi-
liation wli'en ou entered the Crimea. When you sat down
before the fortress of Sebastopol, where you have remained
through the heroic exertions and noble patriotism of your
troops, you took up a position which was humiliating to
Russia, but it would be more humiliating still to England
if you were to abandon it without receiving the amplest
terms you could demand. The country is sincerely noel-
tens to see peace re-eatabrshed, and I um unwilling. to say
a single word which might stand in the way of obtaining that
peace emsut, at the same time, I do not believe that any
engagt you could have entered into at the conference
of Vienna eould have been consistent with the honour of
the country in the position in which she is now placed by
your having made an aggressive attack on Russia. We are
not responsible for this aggressive war in the manner in
which it has been conducted, but we are responsible to the
Sovereign and the country that the great efforts we have
made to humiliate Russia shall not be disgraced by an un-
worthy peace, no matter whether we approve or disapprove
of the conduct of the war. The noble earl says we ought
to have been satisfied with the security offered by Russia.
Now, what was the proposal of reussia ? Why, it was
nothing more nor less than that there should be a limit
placed upon the maritime power of herself and the Porte,•
but that in case of imminent danger the Porte should have
power to summon the fleets of her allies to the straits of
the Dardanelles. Now observe, in the first place, that the
straits are the absolute property of the Porte; they are
past of the Turkish dominions, and, according to the law
of nations, Turkey has a perfect right to open or close
them just as she may think proper, so that, ,my lords, in
point of fact, Russia proposed to grant to Turkey nothing
more than she was already entitled to, without the mole-
tion or permission of her enemy. qllear, hear, hear.)
?f there could be a proposition more calculated than another
to embroil Russia and Turkey, to keep up a constant fear
of insecurity, to impose on the guaranteeing powers the
necessity of keeping up forces without the hope of effecting
the object for which the forces were maintained—if there
could be a proposition having for its objects these results,
that was the proposition made by Russia, and which the
noble earl calls on your lordships to affirm. It is of no
use now to moralise on the horrors or war. We are en-
tered into war, and the question now is how we could
withdraw from the war without discredit to our arms—
without dissatisfaction to our allies—without encouraging
those who are hesitating, and discouraging those that are
friendly to us—and also with the security of having some
reasonable prospect that we should not be plunged, in
six months' time, into another war more aggressive in
character and more intense in its nature, from the fact
of our showing too great a desire to conclude a peace.
(Hear, hear.) Therefore, in the interests of peace itself,
this is not a time for inquiring what was the origin,
and what was the conduct of the war. The only ques-
tion we have now to decide is, what is to be done to
extinguish the war with honour and credit ? (Cheers.) In
this instance I cannot say I regret that the negotiations at
Vienna have failed. I believe that if we would have a se-
cure and honourable peace we must conquer that peace—
(loud cheers)---and that by showing, in the teeth of such
resolutions as those proposed by the noble earl, that there
is a fixed determination in this country. of going through
that war into which we have entered, and that we will
not depart from it until we have brought it to an honour-
able conclusion. (Loud cheers.)
Earl GRANVILLE rose to state a matter of fact, and
not to prolong the debate after the discussion which had
exhibited so remarkable a unanimity. The matter of fact
which he rose to state was this. He understood that the
noble earl had supposed that the conferences were closed.
But that was not the fact. At this moment proposals
had been received from Austria, together with subse-
quent modifications, which were at present under the
consideration of the two Governments of France
and England. There was very little chance—indeed
he might say there was no chance—of a favourable conclu-
sion.
Lord GREY said he was afraid there would be very
little use in dividing, as more than one of those who
would have supported him were unavoidably absent.
The motion was withdrawn amidst much laughter,
caused by several noble lords declaring that it was nega-
tived nentine contradkente.
ROYAL COMMISSION.
A royal commission, consisting of the Lord Chancellor,
-the Earl of- flarrowby, and the Duke of Argyll, was then
formed for the purpose of giving the assent
the of her
PeMaer
-
jesty to several bills, Lord Panmure bein only

present during the imposing ceremony, in addition to the
members of the royal CO
and Cuiitoms Dutiesion. The royal asient was
given to the Income Tax, •lnd Excise
Duties Bills, and a large number of private bills.
The Registration of Births (Scotland) Bill was read a
third time and paassed.
Their lordships then adjourned at a quarter to 1 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-YESTERDAY.

The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
—Caledonian Railway ; Carmarthen and Cardiga Rail-
way ; Executor and Trustee Society ; Nationaln
Loan
Fund Life Assurance Society ; Peterborough and Wel-
lingborough Road ; Wigan and Preston Roads, North
of Yarrow ; Sligo Gas.
The following bills were considered and ordered to he
read a third time :-,Bolron and Nightingales' Road ;
Edinburg hand Glasgow Railway ; Folkestone Improve-
ment ; Lon.lon and South Western Railway ; Not-
tingham arid Newhaven Road.
The following bills were read a second time :—Airdrie
Rural District Police (No. 2), and New River Company
and Trustees of the River Lee (No. 2).

PETITIONS.
Mr. A. PELL,vrt presented a petition from
National and Constitutional Reform Association,
signed by 5,000 persons, praying for Administrative
Reform ; by Mr. Spooner 34 petitions from various parts
of Warwickshire, praying far the repeal of the Maynooth
grant ; by Sir J.. Graham. two petitions from Carlisle,
for the repeal of the Sunday Beer Bill ; by Mr. Lowe,
several petitions in favour of the bill fur legalising mar-
riage with a deceased wife's sister.
PASSPORTS TO PARIS.

Mr. WILSON said passports would be issued free to
the workmen and artisans of the United Kingdom, to
visit the Paris Exhibition, to be•avai!able for one month.

NEW WRIT FOR BATH.
Sir J. W. JO LLIFF E moved fora new writ if.A. Bath,
in the place of Mr. Phinn, appointed Second Secretary
to the Admiralty.
After a few remarks from Sir C. Wood, Sir F. Thesi-
ger, and Sir F. Kelly,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
he received this morning an application from Mr. Nita'
for the stewardship of the Chi!tern Hundreds to enable
him to vacate his seat. The grant of an office under the
Crown was brought to biro for signature, and he signed it
this morning. He believed it was the intention of the Sec-
retary to the Treasury to move for a new writ this evening,
with the corr'ct name of the office which Mr. Phinn ap-
plied to accept, as it was not the stewardship of the
Chiltern Hundreds. (Hear.)
After a few words from Mr. DISH MELT, who re-
commended that some distinct understanding should be
come to as to the practice in future in such cases,
Sir W. JOLLIFFE withdrew his motion.

CADET APPOINTMENTS TO THE ARIVIY.

In reply to Mr. H. A. BRUCE,
Mr. yONSELL said that the system which had pre.
veiled at Woolwich with regard to the appointment of
cadets had been exclusively that of nomination. Within
the last few days, .however, the system bad come under
the knowledge of the Secretary of State, and as a consi-
derable number of cadets were required in the
Engineers and Artillery, the expediency of alter-
ing the present mode of appointment was deemed
necessary. The pressing emergency for these cadets
rendered it impossible that any permanent arrangement
could be at once made, but a plan of selection had been
adopted which was a great improvement upon the old
one, which would be based upon the result of a public
examination, showing whrn use they had made of the
means afforded to them of itquiring it formation in their
profession. (Rear, hear.) By these means the best
men would be selected.
THE CRIMEAN MEDALS.
Mi. STAFFORD asked the Under Secretary for
War what arrangements had been made for forwarding
the Crimean medal to the sick and wounded soldiers
who were at present at home with their friends?
Mr. F. PEEL said that 2,000 medals were in the
hands of Hunt and R.)skill, fur delivering to those sol-
diers who had returned to this country from the Crimea,
and were not present at the ceremony on the 18th inst.,
and would be forwarded to them by the firm he had
mentioned. He might take that opportunity of
also informing the house that arrangements
had been made to send 8,000 medals per fortnight
to the Crimea for distribution there ; and further, that
those soldiers who received medals on the 18th would
shortly receive certificates upon Hunt and Roskill, in
order to obtain their clasps, to which they might be
entitled.
THE GOVERNORSHIP OF GIBRALTAR.
Mr. BRIGHT said he had often bad to complain, by
personal representation and memorial, of the interference
of the present Governor of Gibraltar with the trade of
that port, which complaint he had now to repeat. He
had been informed by the Duke of Newcastle, on a for-
mer occasion, that the term of office of Sir R. Gardiner
would shortly expire, but that officer remained there
still. He wished, therefore, to ask the First Lord of
the Treasury whether it was the intention of the Govern.
ment or not to supersede him ?
Lord PALMERSTON,said that the period of service
of Sir R. Gardiner had expired, and that he now only
held office until his successor was appointed.
THE VIENNA CONFERENCE.
Mr. ROEBUCK said—Sir, there is a report abroad
that the. Conference at Vienna has been renewed. I
wish to ask whether the Government have received any
intimation of such a renewal ?
Lord PALMERSTON—AII I can say is, that no
conference has been held since the last reported in the
papers ; and before any fresh conference is held, the
English Minister at Vienna must receive authority from
the Government at home to attend it. (A. laugh.)
Mr. M. GIBSON said he did not quite understand
the answer of the noble lord to the question just put.
The noble lord at the head of the Government stated a
few days since that the conference at Vienna was not
closed, but suspended, and that Lord Westmorland re-
tained full powers to Re. He wished to know it
those powers had been withdrawn, and when ? (Hear.)
Lord PAINERSTON said the powers referred to
had not been withdrawn fr m the noble lord. It was
one thing to possess them, and another to exercise them,
and that must depend on the instrnctions he received.
THE ADJOURNED DEBATE—THE VIENNA
NEGOTIATIONS.
The adjourned debate was resumed by
Mr. WHITESIDE, who said that after what bad oc-
curred in that house with reference to this question, the
house would have failed in its duty to itself and the
people if it did not unequivocally express its in-
dignation on the conduct of the First Minister
of the Crown. He (Mr. Whiteside) admitted the im-
portance of the question, and contrasted the views of the
hon. member for Oxford and those of the noble lord on
the question—gentlemen who had rode in the same
carriage on this question who had expounded
their views with great ability, but not with
equal consistency ; and if there was a justification re-
quired for the motion of the right hon. gentleman, he
would a,le 'any impartial and attentive listener
to these speeches whether there was ever exhi-
bited before that house, or any reasonable as-
sembly, more striking proof of inconsistency of
opinion and insincerity of conduct., not- on small mat-
ters, but on the greatest subject that could well occupy.
the minds of statesmen, on this creetion. On the ques-
tion of the ware the noble lord had said he was for war.
and the honourable gentleman that he was for
peace, and would he satisfied with a treaty with Russia,
hut the noble lord was for something more substantial.
The right hon. gentleman thought the revision of the
treaty of 1841 would be of much value in the
settlement of this question,. but the noble lord
thought it would amount to nothing, because, as he
very truly said, without any fresh treaty the Sultan
must call out for help when assailed. (Hear, hear.)
The honourable gentleman thought these terms real
and substantial, but the noble lord considered them
futile and useless, and so the argument stood between
then). One part of the noble lord's speech claimed
his attention on account of its fairness, be-
lieving that everything the noble lord said,
from his position, entitled him to implicit
respect, and that was that the negotiations with which
he was charged to conduct at Vienna that,
although the noble lord thought the success
of those negotiations came within the range of
possibility, he felt at no time sanguine of it.
The chief of the negotiations had, in fact, described him-
self as the leader of the forlorn
.hope of diplomacy—
(hear)—and such being the case, they were surprised if
hon. members still hesitated to vote for the motion
of his right honourable friend. (Hear.) The result was
that those who proposed to pursue a direct and
honest course had the alternative but to declare that
they would do all in their power to carry on the war
and send diplomacy to the winds. (Hear.) Why, what
was tlie. effect of the statements of the noble lord the
member for the city of London ? Why, that he had no
faith in diplomacy, and by doing so he had completely
destroyed the well-drawn arguments of his noble friend
at the head of the Government. (Hear, hear.) The
opinion of the noble lord was doubtless that it had been
the intention of Russia to destroj Turkey but for the in-
terfefence of England and France,
and yet with those
opinions strongly impressed within him the noble lord
had said, on the motion of the right hon. gentleman the
member for Manchester, there were still hopes that ne-
gotiations might be entered into, and attended with
the best effects. For his own part he entertained
no suck fallacious ideas believing from the
noble lord's speech of last night that any further nego-
tiations were useless. (Hear.) Much bad been said about
what Thissia had done for the free navigation of the
Danube. In his opinion the course she had pursued was
an insult to any civilised nation in Europe. (Hear.) The
sketch that had been given last night by the noble lord
of the course adopted by Russia, of her filching k
doms and bribing officials, was frightful in the
extreme, and he thought thatri of tif Count Nesselro
the worh l,de wanted
to preserve the good opiniohe nations of
with respect to the conduct of Russia, he could not do
better than enrol the sketch given by the noble,lord the
member for London in the Chancellerie of St. Petersburg,
as it would be a fitting memento of the perfidy of Russia.
The noble lord then described the evils we had to contend
with. What was the remedy ? Why, it was the moun-
tain and the mouse over again. (Laughter.) The co-
lossal power of Russia must, in sonic way or other, be
reduced, said the noble lord. He (Mr. Whiteside) listened
to the remedy ,the noble lord prescribed ; and what
did he point out ? Nothing—really nothing. (Laughter.)
All the noble lorl suggested, as far as he (Mr. White-
side) could gather was, that something must be done
—which was a very safe theory to perform. (Hear, and
laughter.) But, said the noble lord to the Opposition,

the Go,ertiment would change
don't you tell ue what to do I" If •
Whyßear)
00 •• •
, preattoe) they would shew- them what to do. (-1
and probe -
nged cheers from the Oppo.ition, and leile
ohter)
Was .
. it ever the duty of the Opposition to dO an)thing
kmore than criticise 1 He (Mr. White Such vished ta
now from the noble lord,- who was such ate edrelt .
leader of Parliament, when it ever was the duty of the
place 4 with thernt the
Opposition to dictate the course of business to the Got
? The charge brought against the Governelit
was that its language in this question
Y •
unsa
lord tisfactoryeaud evasive. (Cheers.) Did' the 2JO
explain what the noble lord the Prernier nreant..etir a
had not and he (Mr. WO ventured to saythe noble lord
did,,,,, not really know what the Pretnier mea!
h eaasr a very difficult queetion to deterrnme. (1-leee,rd
)d The bole and learned gentleman then proce Nobleoe
to r ..
lorPparty, it :,;la, instead of adopting the of the
several extracts from the speeches
hal beennvoebre
oe
.in illustration of bis argument, and urged the nx
ofssatoye of using' every effort to break the colossal ieeeco
tghl:ti n e
the herh i, u
sber ev,a, "bler
power and carrying her views When Europe inigh,tdede
less prepared to meet and defeat ,theta. lie COlical
obtain this result, the motion of his right hon. end
the member for Bnekiut If '
e mous ire.
just
aWntdEdsoaswiaciindtbhtahactie
wqhuaosontt.ehden,
anit,:np
gal
tteianirgonejewd gentlemanhainct
ji
epihouse
would ado
Yat-:otfrheetctineeear:ol
ought now to use. He would ask the h
why did not be use such language? and be 011.' Le
the
wished that he had, as it would have epered tbe holldress
troubletheo of hearing what he was now about to °wet
and himself the trouble of making the areenas_le.,
which about to propose It was _beCaUSe g Tao
men opposite had not used such language; ;it ago bee •r
tbsi
they had put their patriotism in theirc InotiOU and_,)l)?.laty spirit in their speeches-( Oh oh," e.rol clie*.ote
ththe had felt it to be his duty to place sonothiugatibdt to
..-
the house that would really raise the question, .sues'
-
which the speech of the hon. and learned geetletna?_",,7os.
on. gentian:los:re')
have been applied. He must recall the house to teattat to
tion before it. He had given notice of an aniendirarl),
the resolution of the right hon. baronet (Sir ill• V was
called
I what he had to show was that his ituendlne,tet it.
He for, was true, and that it was expedient to,,,a4rright.
_ would recapitulate bow the matter stood• a" toe of
hon. gentleman the member for Manchester gaa'..e notice
end
a motion on the subject of the conferenees at Arir :sled of
on that occasion a question on that subject W3.,Te vieSt
the noble lord at the heed of the Government. Peleario
say that the answer of the noble lord could have tleeelenael,
one.. Thenoble lord saidthat negotiations were SusP,,, ear
but that Austria was looking about for sornetin,egnewtor,Se
wfarwhresm(tdislhaiensrrs.eaahLtnei(ys:
whtt.eheerai)
ndiffered
i whetherwifftehoiu.
peso, and that we were like Mx. Micawber , watt' Aeollia
Ye time when peace and war were hanging 'll
fur
hon. friend (Mr. Gladstone) put if to the hon. o'otie, at
etlaidahtfteruoiopmnurguohhepietsettool
rightiouuogro. an;
vv,
isk;fterhigei
see
cin
.:-,b3ei.n it:
be.
tea r.
the,
and ae
on• bt e•
Ile thollf diet tbe
duty of the house to go into these matters, an. .--„a of
house would euffer in the eyes of the count/that tb°
Europe if it did not take that course, and he felt .0g to
house had been excluded from a go'od seal rellitolnisl°ll
foreign affairs in the last two Yeaas, and that the
~, Sub
of the house ought to have been expressed on th"tiew
jects. He was pleased to hear the right hon. gpeeowiog
the f°" ceao
the member for' B 1
Bucks give utterance on d
es la
evening to sentiments something like those) andlA air,
his intention of moving a resolution which won "tea enta
raise the real question. He was equally dieeP°in °Pill°
the tenor of the resolution. He expected to ,ee Voile
expressed as to whether the conference ought to 0000 tole,
on or not, or that it was time for negotiations trie bed l,
an end. He thought if the right hon. geotleins',llooo,_.ael
lowed the impulse of his feelings he would bele eafOlv"
ee r eibt
but being only a representative man, he had o.ltbe Pa
than his owl to consider ; and so the notice o ,0 peat
hon. gentleman began in patriotism and endedA wet: ~
6yh 1
Id b
ro .
passage,p Lai
n"1
tzd
_. and it was a mere censure on the Goveroo,7o -.re o
biguous language and uncertain couduct, while,,,, tbeitt
tion itself was couched in such uncertain lotigri;yernlee 1,
one knew to what part of the conduct of the ptiortAili.
it pointed, or the facts withwhich it teas to be seas e
(Hear, hear.) When it -
sure tb , .0
was meant to ceo too ~,i'be
ment, it should be done in clear and defieite eetter le' ch
the right hon. gentleman ould have done '4O sr,,.
had himself avoid, I ambaruities. Look, too,at ''ite ior."al
of the right hon. gentleman,a which was filled ;,..„ o°4
tives against the noble lord J. Russell), for th'eirne-t, pot ;t, •
he had done, not as a member of the erect her the
oSecretary for the Colonies, but as the aliploree sitioo4ol
noble
the crown, and in doing the duty of o'4 P°lloll,oo
lord was entitled to that fair cousiderti°.etilbeld ; ea
by party feeling, which that house never tvlbet e'!„'tbo
any pu, lic servant, who did his duty in the oor-0,0
i could. He (Mr. Lowe) felt strongly that it vi3stbat "en/
noble lord was a member of a nartic,ular partY,tot,ortical
sn bjected to strictures to which lewd Virestin"fe ith P'114.40'
other diplomatist not immediately counecteolot hoe. loel
life, would not have been subjected. The I,°gs rerli'lle'Per'
tleman said little or nothing in favour Of I'l-de ja'-ipto'
the house, following his example, had saitillt. t boo. if it
of it. Then as to the amendueeut of the r,elioy three t°
net the member for Portsmouth, he the ag.:0111,0
was discreditable to the House of Cornellgr. D'lo the
the motion of the right hon. gentleman % tire, oer
neither would it be creditable to theta The etneenee:
amendment of the right hon. baronet. n.e- flier!' tb'
atated-" Flavin.; seen with regret thet the
bog ill
Vienna have not led to a tortination of I.lt will retioe °
house feels it to be a duty to declare that ' rosoo".01 lre,
to give every support to her Majesty in rho p,i,l ,r 1
0,
the war until her_ Majesty shall, in col'illeelrabisr, coei
allies, obtain for this country a safe andlPel" sill-Di 1
What did that mean ? The words " regr-09ore•coare'
cern" when used in that house meant ceo Wet eet,,eter
mean censure on, the plenipotentiary, Or ea for 0,, tie-,
ment-or war, it a censure on the nob lor cer'' lose"
re e,„ to Ger Ito.
ine e,into negotiations with a sincere dos',,ees 'el, ell P'cl
an
;awl to allow Russia to obtain adval"ea%eflini"4,
with our Ottoman allie 4 and then tee 03"-eitel'.0
tia'
ions? It ought to be kno'wn what was cote. t) )i.4
the ame d n rnent before tb h ~ came t° 5 rreJ rillse
then, the question in e ou' e it oec" y. 9' lel
(Mr. Lowe) to
move an amendment riun,bieli s'l,7,4eet
rer
motion, in order e
to raise the questiononer Gif oe oe
been raised%
to see whether
_, after the rejection 11 e., eel, eel' 01 ,
position on the third article, there vire". wieeteit seo
basis left for negotiations for Pace ; al,°;;',„; t'e-aeli'lito
the opinion of the house on that QueeDo', sell:; 4101 oat-f
party view. If his resolution was agreeo regret, be , '
meaning would be given to the word reclaceo ter?,
words " owing to the refusal of Rug- the to
vord bee e
in the Black Sea" would- show that the 'to tblne 00d
applied toe Russia, and would shoo' fete a.ieet or
plainly, what it was about to vote tneedweetio
effect would be produced bY the ~30 ie. 6,t °felit
Sir W. Heathcote, though its terms !`" se pPeiba ,; DJ
sense. He had now to give Teasels 1° eoeli ° to et, 00
amendment; and here he was met by the fewever,d, bto,oo
hon. friend (Mr. Gladstone). go wesCee fritotistelee,
not on the ground taken by his iebt, °".""of e"to °eat
those taken by Russia be The sib lot egreeet° it°
was duly settled, and although he did ye, , t° ja t‘ of
Dot,' Sess JAY i
yet he thought that this country or s e sow, arst oc
basis as Russia •
said she was entitled. a
on the 4 be,:tocl:-
in this year-on the 7th of Jan
uary an° pee ,e,, tee Ptetty
the conferences-saie that we were u?„0,0 Pt'frooll 00
negotiation that the preponderarce of -Dia or del , or.
Sea was to be put au end to. go v'clu t 0°I)coYCl11.1 )1.
point, and would urge that if that was c..'„eel 6 g o_oo
not desirable that negotiations should Pr..plrPt iesaPteo
Were the terms offered by Prince G.,°:, iv 111!„.eco.',110a3
Titoff equivalent to that which was -I;ooo,lel;etiet' the
yielded by Russia, namely, that her Ple,,, brelhed -loos
Black Sea was to be diminished? a_-°"'direief`eta i tap
that that preponderance could oolV "eo.oern°lo.l,`„bel
limitation of the fleet of Russia. The. re del° ao3,ete°,:
that, opinion ; for their plattipotenti'l. la, S'eee"',o,
limitation of the Russian fleet in the D''' to betbotlll ilto
that was refused he declared his Pevie.erlo 04 ~iOO ',JO_
Even Count Nesselrode did not ventut
~ , revideralioree;
had not agreed that there should be ant`'orer° edeett°
treaty of 1841 as would o limit rtreotrole 1;0 tPe,
the Black Sea ; but h© Shptsupressed 0
t f'iShi. ter i:eij
`tat,
vaguely of the revision of the treety 0_
to el" rofe"" lir
did not stop there, for Russia refuse,._.4eie p ,be
,e l.
question relating to that sabject. rit, betbovea l'in Ote'
means of entering into negotiation,,,u,s proPotegleaeoteof
clausum" and the "niece apertuni, „toe ad tee ',O of
equally tended to give her an ininveies of eter_nerer
Black Sea. The proposal that theeel!tot tbe_,neePt Ole
Powers ehould, come iuto the Black'bt; prep act, 00' 0 ,r",(
Turkey would not put an. end to outwit, 0 eao°.lloo,e
Ruesia there, but contemplated its 0 ,d 130.3 bola rvt,
provided a tardy remedy when it shol' voer
,e,t
,_ 0,3
edienu f ecv jis' 00
sufferably offensive. Such an exe want. 0 oas 0 c tif,
and ridiculous, anti there was 13° i tbeteer eeafitept
third point exeipt by the liruitalli° it• 'eve' iet ;era
This was not a -numerical questioe
_.
.„02tce to co e$ ~
obtain three points out of thefour °7 of
,t.',', 040_ ao't
non numerantur ; and the ortaaet,oot, wr,i';ll pro/sico
was refused was such, that we cor%iisie pre, prop to
once we had had of the dealing's 0, -''') theret Of I lot
cement to waive it. He (Mr. 1-4°,erefesear ;v)
to declare by hiaaniendinent that tr. tbe 1a.,00 ectoeretle
restrict the strength of her navY in„eroselft7atep,",:eoe, a
in the words of Prince Gortchakoff hi to her Foot rteti;t4
to the refusal of Russia to put an en_Lelosioaea, 00,1 fatal,
in that sea, must lead to the e_e'etatist.,, el ferli yi
third point the negotiations Werit°l4oo.lo,l.o pegejee
would be below the dignity' of t ogotietioP c0n,,,c1. J'
with the subject, to continue the
_oo,o3lorartotort
(Cheers.) The hon. and learned P.! ,hov° f thet 1.0.00;
moving his amendment in the tersgstrot 0e_0,0030 iO,
Mr. CAYLEY expressed his. option t 6io eee se te,
went by Russia of her :inister in 4 might I_oo_l haeela
and thought Lord John Russell
sort:oo,lW> rreti 1
~
ing to ex.:et from Russia some sul.'eat this, e_ vier;-earele ell
future aggressions. Believing that al-re Air. Y,,i, V4l ,_
complished by negotiation, be. inbat wee Air. ettet:i
withdra •v his resolutio nd tgaol2,:nteodect the 'to covor,,,
Mr. ROUNDELL PALMS_'' n't for b....0,,g
~ ea. 4,,,,,
ready obtained all that was o°,.°7teeree /"If tbf•7oo 01,',40'
was, therefore, in the highest ia aotit 001;103,
0,
hostilities for vague and uner wa :dare l„,l'a 00 4, r, Plop
a defensive into an aggr.ossie or the 6' „of '0,04,,,,
Bible to preaict its ternainatime. reotiel'aeali et "',t
which it might ultimately teed. fed the inertte 4o „ ,
Lord STANLEY said he sear: 5 o,oo..botervo ee, fii,
raeli not so much because it passe:ve them :bet Ilea of:/t;
Ministers as becauee it at last g_., 00 tovosseet
,50„,? 0.001
more
the
infornotel°o", yettnellYlwellepe,,p,
wars for than the country we°, orre toe 4,,,evice r
r vies R to e •OP te "I'
opinion was, that the wa , nnaiong 0° orf PI tb'
for Russia was all througe ,4_,.t frore_eoessof ,00 0,
England. Ile believed i,to:becaoe_ortiooa_tter, ef
.1 ,
we had drifted into war, any: "ee prolee',. the 1", Ite {pot
whether the object now
~at. was
envy'
,tirblit, ,
_ow
po
00
the humbling of a poweratatt)....e to cos,,,,ie tr_ irooteelif,
object, they would stand
o'_.11:1 Oita trunti,ge Ised?, pt.'
definite duration, which
is
a ,a
..-, woe,- eb 0130'10o sits
war of nationalities. Tb, ntil, Avb", as 6-00 0' eV
with the history of this co ~0 000 a
rotec 0019 t ,e- roil
• a that ''-' the Pits eer ail .0
wide-spiced despoiisi
merely fel 'l, tote tr6° 00 ` til
however, the war WaS tOe'l gUe". 106° t ''.i' 4L'
and if the countty -traders eto the 0, not
i_otec „icor
there would be alsito;t
_o..aeln,ieti vfe eGovertybo iatre'relti,ol
log any ternas from =oleo v'iod
,taeolerete e001.4,0,Le1,
humbling to that P°w.el.:‘,o,,ia 110,,t0 beeo P,'„ed,lrd 0 le:
firmly intimated that iti
lover bee
otberprorofooo,ol,oo
Turkey the Pruth wlt d. Oe thee,de aotbe oto 0
would have been ave. fere, Ittl .- oof itsvi ,illi
t ,iliabar •11500 test 0 4
said they would no ,ebe ea ci ~ or
have come to terms. .-a ..,,,e erne I host O,
f the " ' On 4. ee le,
was the true cause o woo. OP ,,00'
Bible. trusted thet the wade be gigot Yeil
J •);
Mr. LAVA
bled
tails
.„,, p, feig.o_ froolo 0/3 .114
him if he troubled them
ew!'", eves
.tiriot :00aboto v.
what had fallen the pro loico. tma P joifithlt
ember Or 0 wile -sae or,
gentleman the in _cerence t, be 14 •
gentleman caid with re.,
t for nutli get
them was quite correct, i 0 lot oe
how,* be (Mrt l'ailir4) 4