The Sun.
London, England, 1855-02-21 00:00:00

In regard to the militia regiments, he wail lorry to say that
some of them bad not shown so much ensr and vigour in
furnishing their quota to the line as had assn anticipated.
And it was his intention to take energetic means for in-
ducing those regiments to supply their quoat. Before taking
lhose steps, ho trusted, however, that an appeal which be
had made to the commanding officers of the several militia
regiments might have its effect. (Hear, hear.) He ad-
mitted that the full number of the militia which the Govern-
ment were empowered to enroll had not yet been raised ;
but, nevertheless, be did not think it would be advisable to
enforce the ballot, to which there were insuperable objec-
tions, nor the system of fines which prevailed, and which
failed during the last war. It was clear, however, that
means must be found, if not by voluntary enlistment, by com-
pulsion, for meeting the requirements of her Majesty's ser-
vice, and for enabling the war to be carried on with the re-
quisite vigour. With reference to the remarks which the
noble earl had made with respect to the disproportion which
he thought existed between the number of c )mmanding offi-
cers and of subalterns in the regiments now serving in the
Crimea, he (Lord Panmure) had to state that he had already
instructed the Commander-In-Chief to make the establish-
ment of these reg ments, in future, two lieutenant-colonels
and two majors, instead of one lieutenant-colonel and three
majors, as at present. When, therefore, the regiment was
separated into two divisions, both the portion whichremained
at home and that which was engaged at the seat of war would
have the advantage of being commanded by a lieutenant-
colonel. It was proposed to raise the strength of each regi-
ment serving in the Crimea to 2,300 men, half of whom were
to be sent to the East, while half remained at home. It was
supposed that, making allowance for sickness and other casu-
alties, the division of the regiment despatched to the seat of
war would be able to bring into the field about 800 men,
which he believed all military men agreed was the number
which could be most easily handled and most easily put
through the requisite manceuvres. A depot of 400 men would
then be stationed in the Crimea from which the vacancies
which occurred in the Crimea might be more easily replaced,
and the remainder of the regiment, '6OO men, would remain at
home under the command of a lieutenant-colonel. That he
thought was not by any means a despicable' strength for a
depot, seeing that the regiments that were sent out to
the colonies a few years ago only numbered 650 men, or
50 more than the number of the depot which it was now
proposed to retain at home. The noble earl had next ad-
verted to the manner in which the complement of the
regiments first embarked for the East was made up.
(Hear.) He agreed with him as to the inconvenience which
arose front the course which was then followed. But
when the Commander-in-Chief was suddenly called upon to
raise the strength of the regiments destined for foreign ser-
vice from 800 to 1,000. he did not see what he could have
done better than call upon those portions of the army remain-
ing at home to supply, by volunteering, the vacancies which
existed in the regiments ordered on foreign service. He did
not believe, at all events, that the plan then adopted had led
to any permanent inconvenience. The noble earl had next
addressed the house on various.matters of high policy connec-
ted with the conduct of the war. He concurred with him in
every word that he had said with respect to the course taken
by Piedmont in joining this alliance, and he might further
mention, in order to show the sincerity which the Piedmon-
tese Government had shown in this matter, that they had
not only sent the flower of their troops to the assistance of
the Western Powers, but had sent them under the command
of the present Minister of War, whom they deemed the man
most fitted to conduct them. He also concurred with the
noble earl in the feelings of satisfaction he had expressed with
reference to the signature of the convention of Turkey, from
which he anticipated great advantages. It would, of course,
be unbecoming in him, occupying the position he had the
honour to hold, to enter into all the details of a campaign
upon which his notble friend had commented, but he could not
help deprecating the idea that England was in this war
fighting for any peculiar interest of her own. This war was,
in his opinion, undertaken against the aggressive policy of a
great Power in Europe. It was undertaken with no aggres-
sive purpose on our part, but to restrain the power and
ambition of Russia ; and he hoped that England would not
seek either to extend its territory or to tura to its individual
advantage the force which might be brought together in
the field by ourselves and our allies. With regard to the
remarks which the noble earl Arad made in respect to
the Indian army, no doubt the noble earl was better ac-
quainted with the exigencies of the Indian empire, and the
feelings of the Indian empire, than 'was he (Lord Panmure )
But it must bo a very serious consideration when it was pro-
posed to denude our Indian empire of such troops as formed
_

its best safeguard, and he could not venture to express an
opinion upon that subject without being thoroughly ao•
quainted with the views of the Governor General of India at
this moment as to the safetyi of India. Nor, further than
withdrawing those few regiments of the Queen's service, to
which the Governor-General had given his cheerful acquisi-
eseence, would he venture, merely for the sake of employing
Indian troops iu the Crimea, to deprive India of forces on
which she ought to rely, either to resist an attack upon her
own territory or to maintain that order within its limits
which he was ,happy to say now existed throughout the whole
extent of our Indian dominions. He moved the second read-
ing of this bill solely with the view of grafting on her Majes-
ty's service a body of mon who might be capable of discharg-
ing the duties of hard services more perfectly and at lest cost
of health and life than the class from which our recruits were
at present.taken. He proposed to limit th• term of enlist-
ment for three.years, and should powers be required to en-
able the Crown still further to diminish it, he could not doubt
that their lordships would grant them as readily and willingly
as they would those conferred by the present measure.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH observed that he had not
spoken of withdrawing a single European •regiment from
India, or of employing native troops in the Crimea.

- - -
The Earl of MALMES'BURY said the tone adopted by the
noble lord in speaking of the militia had alarmed him in a
certain degree, and he believed a strong feeling of jealousy
existed with respect to the course taken by Government as
to some arrangements for that service. Not very long ago,
as was done in the last war, recruiting regiments were sent
down to raise men from the militia regiments for the line, and
the consequence was that those regiments were thrown for a
week or ten days into a state of complete disorganisation. It
was no light matter that, such a garrison as that of Ports-
mouth, for instance, with four or five regiments of militia,
should be in this state. A strong impression had gone
abroad that the militia had not been, in all respects, treated
fairly by Government and Parliament dnring the last
three/ years, When his noble friend behind him
introduced his bill establishing the militia force, the universal
understanding was that the militia should only be embodied
in case of invasion, That bill remained in force for a year,
and then events arose which drove the Government into war

in a direction entirely different from that contemplated by his
noble friend, and their lordships were obliged to pass a secoid
bill to enable the militia to be embodied in case of war. That
was never fairly understood, and he had known several in-
stances in his own county in which poor men had entered the
militia, with no intention of joining a force that was to be
permanently embodied. These men, if they were to serve in
a permanently embodied force, would much prefer the line,
because there they would have the privileges of the regular
service. This had caused a feeling in the south of England
that had to a great degree prevented recruiting for the militia
being carried on successfully, and he observed that even a
purely agricultural county like Hampshire had fallen very far
short of its quota. He entreated the noble lord to deal in
the most open, frank, and easy intelligible way4with those
men, who did not like to find themselves tempted on step by
step, first entering a force under ono set of conditions, then
having their servitude prolonged by another bill, until they
were at length enrolled in the ranks of the line, where they
had had no intention of going.
Earl GREY could entirely confirm what had just been
stated by his noble friend. Pie knew that the departure from
the original understanding on which the militia was raised
had had a most prejudicial effect. At the time of the bill
being passed last year, he for one had expressed his dislike of
it, and his apprehension of the consequences. He knew from
long experience that the class of men from whom they raised
their soldiers required to be dealt with not only with good
faith, but with such scrupulous attention to appearances that
there might not be a shadow of suspicion of any departure
from it. When the militia was formed, the greatest pains
were taken to inculcate on the people of this country the per-
aendtlyneemwbtohclaitec o l
.in
per-
suasion that in going into the militia they incurred no hazard of
being
war, unless in the appreheasion
of
diffcrent bill had been passed, he
could assure his lordships that he had observed in his own
county a very marked difference in the feelings of persons as
regarded readiness to enlist. He knew of one case in which a
man who had enlisted in the militia under the original bill
said that if the regiment was to be permanehtly embodied he
invasion permanently
and
must emigrate to America before it was done. Knowing the
existence of such feelings, he had written to the noble viscount
then Secretary for the Home Department, asking if the men
might have their leave of absence extended beyond a period
of 28 days. The answer was that such an assurance might be
given, butswhether this had the effect of satisfying the parties
to whom he referred he could not say. He entirely differed
from the noble earl opposite in regarding the militia as the
best nursery of the army; his view was, not that it should
be used as a nursery for the army, but that it should be a to-
tally distinct force for national defence. If it were to be used
as a mere nursery for the regular army, for drilling and train-
ing soldiers for the line, hoar could you expect that colonels
and officers would take such pains in disciplining and training
the force, if the moment the men were ready, they were to
be draughted into the regular arm...
x Or why.should an ex-
pensive establishment of officers be kept up to do what could
be done by a captain and a few drill sergeants? He main-
tained that they had thwarted instead of promoted the great
object of keeping the regular army strong. The policy he
would recommend was, that of increasing the regular army by
holding out inducements to men to enter it, and by ameliorat-
ing the system that had hitherto existed. He entirely approved
of the measure now laid on the table, and in connection with
its object he hoped that Government would take steps for
bringing back into the army a class of men whose 'services
would be of the greatest value. Large numbers had been dis-
charged from the ranks during the last few years, of whom
he believed many might be enticed back again, if they were
allowed to reckon their years of service already past as part of
their
time towards a pension. At this moment when trained sol-
diers were of such inestimable value, it would be well worth the
while of Government to hold out this inducement. and to
accompany it by the repayment of the money given by the
men for their discharge, as well as by other fit and reasonable
terms. He entirely concurred with his noble friend the Secre-
tary of State for War that this was not a proper opportunity
for entering on the high and important questions relating to
the conduct of the war, but as the subject had been intro-
duced, he could not help saying that he had heard with great
satisfaction that his noble friend did not yield to what ap
P -
eared to him the extravagant and wild suggestions of the
noble earl opposite. He had listened to them with no little
dismay, and he believed that if they were to act on the views
stated by the noble earl they migat be prepared for a dame of
war extending, perhaps, over the whole civilised world, and
burning during the term of their natural lives. He particu-
larly regretted to hear the noble earl say he considered that
India had a deep interest in the present war. He belie red
that it was utterly impossible to have made a statement less
founded on the accurate views of the real interests of India,
or at the same time more calculated to be injurious to this
country. (Hear.) The noble earl talked of the interests of
India and this sear, as if India were exposed to the smallest
danger from the attacks of Russia. From a person of the
noble earl's experience, he had not expected to hear any such
statement as to a danger which he must regard as utterly
monstrous and chimerical. Was Russia to:advance across those
hundreds of miles, in a great part trackless wastes, that
separated her frontier from India, and carry an army over thegreat mountains that divided the peninsula from Central Asia?
We knew how formid ble Russia was for defence when attacked
a
at home, as she was now at Sebastopol ; but, judging from
what she had accomplished on the Danube, she could not bo
regarded as very formidable for attack, nor did she possess
means for moving large masses of men and parks of artillery
over great distances.
(Hear, hear.) Whilst we possessed
the affections of the people ofl India
de-
fiance the hostility of Russia, but when we lost their respect
and confidence, let our armies be what they might, thenour power in India
would certainly crumble. To
.
and empire embarrassment im-
posea
involve our Indian
l burdens for the sake of'carrying out
great financial
scheme of military org-anirationappear d to
in Central Asia,
regard to
him as wild a notion as could be imagined. With
Poland adverted to by hie
the condition and prospects of ,