The Sun.
London, England, 1855-01-18 00:00:00

Yesterday (Wednesday) afternoon, Mr. Cobden, M.P.,
visited his constituents at Leeds. It had not been dis-
guised that the object of the hon. member's visit was to
address.tho electors on the subject of the war. The peace
party, being favourable to his views, took in hand the
management of the meeting, and by placards and other
means for several days previously very copiously spread
abroad their sentiments ; and, in short, left no means un-
tried to turn the popular feeling into the peace current,
with what success our report elbows.
The meeting was first convened to be held in the Music
Hall, but its incapacity to accommodate the large masses
who flocked there, soon rendered necessary an adjourn-
ment to the extensive area of the Coloured Cloth Hal-
yard. The meeting was one of the largest political assem-
blies ever congregated in the borough, and included many
of the leading men of all parties. Several thousand per-
sons remained through a protracted meeting, in defiance
of a coating of snow and very intense cold.
Alderman CAEBIITT, a leading West Riding Liberal,
and chairman of Mr. Cobden's committee at the last elec-
rion, presided.
The CHAIRMAN, in the course of seine introductory ob•
ser-vations, said that in taking the chair ho was placed in
a somewhat anomalous position, for it was the general
practice to elect to the chair a gentleman whose opinions
more or less harmonised with the promoters of the meeting.
He, however;had the misfortune to differ on this oetasion
from their worthy representative, Mr. Cobden. So strong
was this foaling that when Mx_ Came. easseasaeseeeed ee.
him in the first instance respecting his desire to address a
public meeting in Leeds on the aspect of the present war,
ho informed a number of Mr. Cobden's friends, who came
to the unanimous opinion that it was not desirable, at the
present juncture of affairs, that a public meeting should lee
held upon the subject. Mr. Cobden had, however, deter-
mined to come; and though they might differ from his
opinions, none of them could doubt the sincerity of Mr.
Cobden's convictions. (Hear, hear.) Ho knew that in
coming amongst them he was coming to oppose the current
of public opinion, and they therefore must admire his
honesty and his manlineis. (Hear, hear, and uproar.) In
addition to his being one of the members for the West
Riding, the great services which he had rendered to the
country gave him a paramount claim to a patient and a
candid hearing, which he hoped they would accord to him.
Clamour never put down the voice of truth, but clamour
and persecution might give strength to a bad cause ; and
if they determined not to hear Mr. Cobden, the conclusion
that would be arrived at in Russia would be that they
dare not hear him.
During Mr. Carbutt's speech he was contintally inter-
rupted with cries of " Adjourn, adjourn," and a motion
was proposed and seconded, that the meeting should be
adjourned to the Cloth Hall-yard. At the c.ose of Mr.
Carbutt's remarks, the meeting was adjourned to that
place. •
Mr. COBDEN on rising was received with yore slight ap-
plause. He said—Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I have
not had the least idea whatever that you would fail to give
me a fair and candid hearing. I knew when I lame here
that I should be addressing a majority of those prepossessed
against my opinions, and that is the very reason why I
came. (Hear, hear.) If I had thought that the views 1
take on the present srate of public matters were universally
shared by the constituency of the West Riding, where
would have been the necessity of my coming down to con-
fer with you ? I have been here when there has been a
groat amount of unanimity amongst you--amongst a great
political party of the West Riding on the current political
affairs of 4,he day; and if -I found it right and proper to
come down under such circumstances, and hear from my
friends and constituents words of congratulation or encou-
ragement on my conduct and convictions, how much more
is it my bounden duty, as a representative of the West
Riding, to come here and state honestly my conscientious
opinions, when I believe that my opinions nay not be
shared in by all ? How much more, then, is it my duty
to come here to listen to you, or any of your respected
chiefs who stand beside me, and are prepared to contro-
vert my opinions, and ete.te here the convictions which
they may entertain ? And, gentlemen, when my respected
friend, the chairman, forewarns you and me that we
are to have -a very discordant meeting, and that there
is a general predominance of feeling against my views
and opinions, I rather think that he has a little
anticipated the business of this meeting. If you
please, we will first of all ascertain exactly what my, opia
I.IkITIR are, en thweetken theLleu take the most interest
in at the presents, *rime, and Wo will lry next to elicit your
opinions from you. lam not come here simply to talk of
the history or origin of the war we are unhappily engaged
in. That is a question which cannot longer affect the ar-
gument, for the war is in existence, and we have to deal
with it as we now find it. By talking of the history of
Russia or Turkey, and going into blue books which deal
with the origin—always obscure—of this war, encased as
it is in diplomatic correspondence, by doing this we shall
not prevent the war. It is in existence, and we must look
at it as being so ; but I, as a member of Parliament, have
to vote on every matter brought before me. I have, as a
member of the House of Commons, to provide for you the
sinews of war. I cannot avoid voting the money necessary
to carry on the war if it is to be carried on. The most impor-
tant question in the next session is, how and in vita man-
ner are we to carry on the war? And I agree that if England
is to have a war you cannot have a little war; but you
must carry it on with that vigour and energy which be-
comes such a nation as this ; but to do this wil require
money, and not a farthing will come except by a vote of
the House of Commons. I havejust said that I mast say
" Yes" or " No" to every proposition that COMES before me
in Parliament, and I now want a few words with you upon
the question of those supplies with which we ire to carry
on this war. I think your Government, ant even Mr.
Gladstone, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, much as I
respect hie character, have rather lent themseives to the
delusion that they could indulge the people of-this country
in a cheap war. Mr. Gladstone told the House of Com-
mons that he wanted but ten millions. We votel him ten
millions. You have had au opportunity of judging how
that money has been spent ; and you can judge new, if we
aro to carry on the war, what that money wilt do, and
how long that money will last. Why, gentleman, it is
gone already. What, then, are we to do for the future?
We are engaged in a war with Russia, and we hive deter-
mined to carry it on upon Russian territory. Let me put
the question the other way. Suppose, instead of carrying
on the war on Russian territory, Russia had determined
upon the invasion of this country with 100,000 men. Be-
fore you had had a single man landed, you wou:d have had
a levy en masse, and have voted fifty millions to pay for the
war. But let me tell you that to carry on a war in
Russia is far more costly than to carry on a wax against
Russia in our own territory, and I want you to lot me
know what aro your wishes in reference to the way in
which money shall be raised. (Laughter, " Hear," and
a voice, "Oh, we'll raise it somehow," and a cty, " Come
to the question.") I will come to the other euestion in
time enough—the question of the conduct of the war. But
I saY there are two or three views on this subject of rais-
ing money. Some say that we should have a loin ; others
say wo should have direct taxation ; others, again, say we
should have indirect taxation. No w-I have cone to tell
youfrankly my opinion on this matter. I look with great
alarm upon the renewal of our system of funded debt. I
look with great apprehension to the recommencement of
the system of loaning. _ I think the labour of the country
is sufficiently mortgaged already. The quOstion is not
whether-you shall burden yourselves and posterity for this
war, but whether you should burden yourselves and your
children. Most of you present, I have no doubt, have
children, and it is money which you or your children will
have to pay. I regard it as pretty nearly the acme thing
to me whether I pay the money myself or borrow it to be
repaid by my children. It is a dangerous thing to give
Government too great facilities for raising money, as you
are very likely to find that you are spending it much too
fast, because you are raising it too easily. It is whole-
some to have a check ; whether during peace sr war, it
is a good principle, and a wholesome check, that wo should
not find money too easily. Especially good is this prin-
ciple when the money is required to carry on a war. It is
a provision of Providence itself that there should be diffi-
culty surrounding a war—that hardships, and dangers, and
sacrifices are necessary to and inseparable fron war—so
that every country may feel it to be beneficial to avoid
these difficulties. You must, however, raise the money to
carry on the war. If you come to the question of direct
taxation, I have no hesitation in saying that in theory
I would have this money raised by direct taxation, be-
cause that money is raised at the least possible expense
is collecting. It does, I believe, the least injury to trade
and commerce. But we all know that on the present
scale of the income tax you cannot raise sufficient to
carry on the war, bukyou must lower the range of the
tax ; you must tax lower incomes, and you must divide
it between direct and indirect taxation. But, gentlemen,
I should be very sorry to see taxes laid on those commodi-
ties which are required in the production of manufactures
or necessary for the commerce of this country. I should be
very sorry to see that, and I tell you frankly that I shall
in every case where possible vote for direct taxation instead
of indirect taxation. Now, gentlemen, with reference ta
the war itself. I have told you that I am not going to
detain you with a long historical account of the origin of
this war. But I must say that I take exception to a remark
made by the chairman, when he seemed to consider that I
was going to address you, and ask your verdict as the
champion of the abstract principle of peace at all price.
This is rather unfair that we should be made responsible
for opinions which we have never avowed, professed, or
entertained. (Hear, bear.) There is a respectable body of
Christians in this country—a body of Christians very in
fluential by their character, if not by their numbers—who

opinions, because 'they
.knew that I should loso all influence,
by advocating those principles, on the, public mind. Let
as discuss this matter upon the question of policy, and the
question of policy alone. Nov, gentlemen, my first objec-
tion to this war has been the delusive, and, I had almost.,
said, the fraudulent pretences under which it has been
inadn'popular in this country. (Hear, hear.) I mean
that the feelings of the people have been raised into
enthusiasm in favour of this war, by being allowed
to entertain the belief that .it was to effect what I
knew' and felt that at all events it never was intended to
effect. (Hear.) Now, gentleman, will anybody hero ven-
ture to deny that, twelve or fifteen months 'am), when the
first excitement in favour of the war with °Russia took
place—will anybody deny that it was carried forward, that
the voice of the people of this country in favour of the
war with Russia was gained by the prevalent belief that
it had for its object to give freedom to struggling communi-
ties on the continent, and that it would have fox its effect
to put a check upon the proceedings of Russia, with re-
ference to its invasion of Hungary, its conquest of Circassia,
and oppression of other countries ? Does anybody deny that
the prevalent opinion'was that in going to war against
Russia we were having inscribed on our banners the re-
construction of Polish nationality? (" Hear," and " No.")
Well, gentlemen, I have said that in the souse of Com-
mons, from what my noble friend, Lord Dudley Stuart
lies said, I know very well that he, and those who act with
aim, were of opinion that this war was such an one as I.
have referred to, namely, that it aimed at restoring liberty.
to Poland—(No, no)-and the restoration of the nation-
of other fallen states. New, gentlemen, I have never
viewed it in that light, for I never 'believed It would lead
to any such consequences. (Hear, hoar.) I have looked
on this war, as a war of policy only. I have looked on it
as a political war, a war of diplomatists and statesmen,
not carried on in the names of nationality or of freedom at
ill. (No, no.) It is a war, in other words, and in the fewest
words I can use, it is a, war in which we have a despot for
an enemy, a despot for an ally, and a despot for a client—
(No, no)—and we have been for twelve months trying to
make an ally of another despot and have not yet succeeded.
(Hear, hear.) Why, gentlemen, if you take a map of
Europe (and I wish I had one of those gigantic skeleton
maps to hang up before you) if you take a look at the coun-
tries that border on that gigantic empire, Russia, you will
rind that from the Baltic to the Black Sea there is lying
athwart that empire and bet wean you—Austria and Prussia,
and the whole Germanic confederation, who can in six
weeks call out a million of bayonets ; and I mean to say if
Russia menaces the liberties of Europe they will be the
first to suffer. What I doubt is, therefore, whether you
have not been precipitate in departing from the ground you
occupied in common with Austria and Prussia, and in
going to war with Russia, leaving them in a state of peace.
I do say, therefore, if you had kept common ground with
them—for they are the parties most interested—all Ger-
many would have beau resolute in the end to prevent Rus-
sia encroaching upon them, and you might have saved
that blood—(uo, no)—and that treasure which I am
afraid you are going to shed. (Is the war just ?)
I was going to say that with regard to the jus-
tice of the war my friends here—some of them—have taken
up the ground that I have been opposed to the war on the
ground that it is not a just one. As between Russia and
furkey, I have again and again stated in the House of
Commons--and ley friend, Mr. Bright, has stated the
same thing most emphatically—(groans)—that as between
the Russian Government and the Turkish Government,
there is no doubt Turkey had right on her side—that
Russia invaded Turkey, and was the first to invade the
territory of the Turkish Government—therefore, if Turkey
chose, she had a fair cams bull for going to war with Rus-
sia. Bat the reserve I snake is this : that Russia, making
an attack on Turkey, is not making an attack on us—
(groans)—and though we have a right, if we please, to mix
in that que.rel, and to, take side with Turkey, yet we are
not at all times called on to go to war immediately in
defence of any couutry—(uo, no)—becanse, if so, it in-
volvesinl'riinsciaplec;uairnretlh, and t
the
neceasskiinty of going to war
g
u whenevers,
there
we believe to be right. (No, no) the side which
then, I come to
the conclusion that you don't adopt the principle that we
are to go to war in all cases where injustice is done to an-
other country. That doctrine would be hazardous in the
extreme; and would place you under such responsibilities
could not meet. I venture to iepeat the opinion which I
which I am persuaded will
as, I feat, considering the resources of this country, we
predicted some time ago, and
occupy, at no distant period, much of the attention of
this country; and any one who has visited Turkey will
unity, that there is in Turkey a goveraneent which does
agree with me when I say that I think you have this diffi-
not represent a majority of the population of that country
-- and here I would appeal to the democratic principles of
gentlemen present. Yon have in Turkey in Europe
12,000,000 of people, of whom 8,000,000 are Christians and
4,000,000 are Mahommedans, The latter domineer over
the former, and deprive them of all their privileges.
The Turk might commit any barbarity on the Chris-
tian, and if there was no hialtommedan witness
of it there would be no punishment of tke offence.
Any one who has been in the country will corroborate
wheul say that if_vou would poll the whole popula-
tion of Turkey by universals's-tare:4e, Jess .e seder nee a
vast number vote against you on the war question
and in favour of the Emperor of Russia. (No, no.) There
is no doubt of that. What is the complaint we univer-
sally hear? We hear that Greek Christians are all opposed
to the English, and that we have been obliged to remove
them from Balaklava because they are hostile to us. The
Greeks residin., in England have been alleged to be so hos-
tile, that they have been warned to be more careful in the
expression of their sympathy with Russia. (Hear, hear )
It is a fact.and an element in this difficult case, and I wish
you toconsider it. You should bear in mind this is an im-
portant element in the complicated and difficult question,
that your are dealing with a Government differently consti-
tuted to all other Governments in Europe, and to the Go-
vernments of all other civilised nations ; because it re-
presents but a small portion of its people, and because it has
a large majority of Christians there opposed to you; and it is
from this circumstance thatyou are trammelled and hamp-
ered in your operations, because you get no assistance from
the Christian part of the population in the Crimea. There
are a 'great number of Christians there, and they will not
give information to our generals; hence it arises that at this
moment our generals in command scarcely know the names
of the generals opposed to them and the number of troops
they have to operate against. Those are very important
difficulties, because we have not to deal with an ordinary
state of things,,where the country and population and Go-
vernment are homogeneous and united; but we are dealing
with an enemy like Russia, and then comes up the ques-
tion of internal divisions and difficulties of Turkey, and
how we propose to meet them. The proposition made by
our own in conjunction with the French Government is,
that instead of Russia interfering to protect the Christian
population in Turkey, it is that the five great powers
should have the right of interference. But it involves a
difficulty which embarrasses this question; and we cannot
deal with it as with an ordinary aggression. (Hear, hear.)•
No doubt others in the fray will have shortly to claim a
little " beneficial interest" in the matter. (Laughter.) I
have no doubt that Russia, for her own selfish interest, has
been interfering with the national affairs of Turkey ; but,
by your adopting the same principle, you go very far in
justifying in the eyes of the rest of the world the course he
has adopted. (" Hear, hear, and " Gammon.") I don't
like the position we have occupied for another reason—we
deal
athreGaonveeurtnimnetnertis.ering
in a
country
where the
not with people. (Cheers.)
W e
do only
tw
interference is intended to benefit the people interfered
with by their Government: Who interfered with a bad
Government, as in the case of the French at Rome, or the
Russians in Hungary, when a Government trampled upsn
the people, and attempted to put them down ? Thus it is
that when we interfere with a country we take side with
the Government against the People. There may be policy
in all this, but it tends to withdraw the question from the
category of justice. Them is a great deal to be said on
both sides with regard to this interference in Turkey—
aro we not going to the same thing as the Emperor of
Russia ? Now, with regard to the justice of this war.
Our friends, no doubt, in dealing with the question, will
dwell upon the subjects or the origin and importance of the
-
war—how it was carried on.
I think with all parties
here there will be no difference of opinion about that—
that all will agree that a more wretched expose. of our
system of administration in military affairs, a more
clear illustration of the total breakdown of the aristo-
cratic system of routine when brought to any strain or
stress, could not have been illustrated. (" Hear,
hear," and cheers.) We have the admission of the re-
presentative of Government in the House of Commons
that a great mistake had been made in sending an
army to the Crimea to take Sebastopol; and I heard a
Minister of the Crown say that all parties were mistaken,
in estimating the strength of Sebastopol. I heard it treated
with as much nonchalance as though the speculation at
hazard involved only a couple of shillings in the result. A
" mistake" involving the homicide of thousands and tons of
thousands of men ! Why was there such a
" mistake,"
which was in every way so deplorable? Why was not all
the information obtaiued with respect to the actual condi-
tion and strength of Sebastopol ? I will undertake to say
that a shrewd Leeds man, entrusted with 10,0001. and sent
to Constantinople, would find the means of getting informa-
tion of every kind—information of every gun, of every man
—they might obtain even the muster-roll and drawings of
the whole place, if the proper precautions were taken to
gat at them. The idea of sending such an army was a
leap in the dark, and throughout "a mistake." Now,
I am of opinion, that the mistake was not merely in
estimating the strength of Sebastopol
; it was a mis-
take to go to Sebastopol at all, under
any
circum-
stances. (Hear.) We have gone 3,000 miles to attack an
empire containing 60,000,0,0 of people, and with an army
of 600,000 or 700,000 men, and send 20,000 30,000 men,
I must think—and I believe you will all think, with a
fulsome self-gratification—as that with which some organs
of the press talked about annihilating that empire—as
frivolous and childish. (Cheers.) My opinion is that the
extinguishment of Sebastopol was a Mistake ; it is ac-
knowledged to bo mistaken so far that it was a " leap in
the dark," and I think the principal question for English-
men to deal with now is, how you ale best to get out of
that mistake. (Hear.) If we are going to fight it out
there, then I say the course hitherto permed by the Go-
vernment is wholly inadequate to the object in view. We
must raise an immense army—we must find an immense
amount of treasure—and must °3117' on the war in the
Crimea on a very different
sale to what we have hitherto
deny. (Hear, hear.) Now, gentlemen, I think there
is another way by which our brave men may be removed
from that position in which, by mistake, they have been
placed ; and I think, without consulting our own passions,
and looking too much to exaggerated hopes and eipecta-
tions, we are bound in all fairness to consider the posi-
tion of those brave mon, and not throw any obstacee in
the way of restoring peace to this collate' and those brave
men to their homes. (Reef.) I would entreat them, when
brought from Sebastopol, with all the consolation and
honour as if they had succeeded, because we may depend
upon it they have suffered ten times as much in the abor-
tive effort to besiege that place than if we had succeeded
by a coup de main in taking it. Is the re no reason to sup-
pose that there is a possibility of effecting a safe and
honourable peace ? Is there not reason to suppose that at
the present moment the Government has approximated to
to that state of things in their negotiations that it would be

possible to effect 'terms of honourable peace? He now ae
dressed Mr. Edward Baines, understanding that a proposi-
tion was to bo submitted calling for a vigorous prosecution
of the war. • He had frankly told them that if the war were
to be carried on. at all, it must be carried on in a different
spirit than it hitherto had been ; but he put it to his friends
wee represented so important a constituency, whether or
not they would not be putting an obstacle in the path of
peace—whether they might not be frustrating the object
fsion
avour
aho
vla not tuii
rfo not
hf
eaorsaer
rtwyhaiaust
ga?
ao
tu(
IN.()
onow.
expression.
r iHis
in o
gowhfn
which Government desired to attain—by passing such a ro-
t
t publictihm ar re
tsf
the
feeling iaons.
gress of pacific negotiations. Moreover, our troops in the
Crimea were suffering unheard-of miseries. • He blamed
Government and the administrative of the army for the
sufferings of that army. .The Government had sent our
brave men, the picked men of this country - they had cast
them on the shore of an 'unknown land, where they did
not know the.force they were going to be opposed to, with-
no more prey-ikon Made for their comforts than if they
had been so many criminal convicts-in this country that
we wished to get rid of. (Cries of hear, and no, no.)
He then referred to the mortality from sickness
in our army in the. Crimea, quoting from a letter.
with reference to the 46th Regiment of Infantry, that
when the regiment landed on the 18th of November
it was 706 strong, that it joined a detachment of 101,
that it received a draft afterwards of 34, making a total
of 841 men ; now they were short of 300 effective men.
The officer who gave him these details attributed this state
of things to overwork in the trenches, wet, and insufficient
food. Be it remarked that the 46th Regiment had never
seen the face of the enemy. Now, he asked them whether
we were not bound to take into account—we who were
comfortable at home—whether our calling for the carrying
on of the war with vigour might not frustrate the effecting
an honourable peace ? • Suppose Sebastopol . was taken,
Lord John Russell had said they had no intention to oc-
cupy permanently, nor the intention of taking any part
of the territory of Russia ; but what we wanted to do, he
(Mr. Cobden) firmly believed, was to destroy Sebastopol
as a point of honour; to be able to say, "We did it,"
and then leave it. (Loud cheers and laughter.) He
asked them to consider what. would be the consequences
of the destroying Sebastopol ? The town might be blown
up street by street and. house by house, but in all
probability not without the loss of 10,000 of the Allied
troops. It was our bounden duty, therefore, to consider
whether the object to be attained was worth that sacrifice—
especially when it was bornein mind that the object of the
war was not far the diminution of the territorial power of
Russia. (Cries of " No, no," and " Yes, yes.") It had
been said that in this question a great principle of right
was at stake ; but he said that as an abstract question of
right and justice, we were not bound to go and fight the
battles of anybody. The war was one of policy, merely
calculated for our own defence, and for nothing else. We
were not fighting in favour of Turkey, but from the be-
lief, that if Russia succeeded in subjugating Turkey,
eventually she would attack us. (Cheers) Just so. That
was the view he had always taken of the war, and that was
precisely the view he liked to take of it, because it was
really the only justifiable view of the case. There were
gentlemen who would tell them perhaps that this was a
great question of justice; that wo were the judges, and
that we were exercising a great act of justice in punishing
a great criminal. (Cheers.) Now, if they would be candid
enough to hear an opinion with regard to ourselves—he
was an Englishman like themselves—they would acknow-
ledge that we were scarcely the men to be the judges in
this matter. They would hear it asserted that Russia had
taken territory from neighbouring countries, (Cries of
" Hear, hear.") His friend Mr. Plint said, " Hear,
hear." Well now, as an Englishman, he blushed for him-
self for this fact, which he would venture to state, that for
every square mile of territory that Russia had taken from
somebody else by force of arms during tho last 55 years,
years, we had taken five square miles. (Cheers and
laughter.) Ho was glad to see them tako the matter with
so much good humour. Wo need not be afraid in Eng-
land to speak the truth, and we should have got on
very fast towards despotism when a man would not be
listened to that did net speak the truth conscientiously. It
was stated that Russia had been encroaching latterly on the
Turkish empire. It was a singular fact, but a fact notwith-
standing, that during the reign of the presentCztir, ho had
not taken a slice of territory from Turkey, but ono of the
parties engaged in this war, in the cause of justice, had
taken a large slice of Turkish territory, because it was well
known that in 1830 France seizedon Algeria, a Turkish de-
pendency, and he believed that up to the present moment
England had never acknowledged the right of France to
Algeria, by sending a consul thither, because England did
not wish to offend her ally on that point. Now, this being
the case, and he knew his friend, Mr.. Baines, who was
one of the best debaters he knew, was coming
after him—(cheers and laughter)—he knew what he (Mr.
Baines) was going to say. He would say—" It's all very
well, Mr. Cobden, your talking that way, but two blacks
don't make a white." (Cheers and laughter.) Well,' bat
let him remind Mr. Baines that he (Mr. Baines) sets out
with—that we are the judges, and the Czar is the crimi-
nal, and that we are doing justice in the interest of
Europe ancj the whole civilised world. Now he (Mr.
Cobden) thought before we mounted the judgment
seat it was necessary that we should have clean hands. He
did not think that a judge who was known to be himself
given to pilfering as much as the man in the dock was very
likely to be sustained in that judgment seat by public
opinion, or that he would he allowed to or.erciae -the func-
tions or a judge lei one stay after unet fact was disubVered.
Now, that was just the case—that was the predicament in
which we placed ourselves when we took up thatargument
about justioe,being executed by us upon the Czar. We
took a poaitien which the world did not recognise. He
again asked them to be good humoured while he reminded
them of one or two facts upon this point, because we
might be assured that however complacently we laid our
hands npon.our hesirta, ancfsidd-;—" Thank Heaven we are
not as other men that take property that do not belong to
them and seize upon their neighbour's territory"—we were
not telling the truth. We had taken in India, from the
Great Mogul, territory which comprised 14 population of
100 millions, nearly twice as many as the whole population
of Russia ; seized upon territory at the Cape of Good Rope.
What we had done there we had done with everybody else
when we had had the opportunity. Other countries did
not take us to be that immaculate people we alleged our-
selves to be; but believed we were'just another Russia in
that respect. (Cheers and laughter.) Just another Rus-
sia—nothing better—nothing worse. We had taken ter-
ritory wherever we thought it was worth having,
and the possessors were not sufficiently strong to prevent
us. Wo found that not only did Russia not acknow-
ledge our authority as a judge, but the rest of the
world did not acknowledge it. He argued that if there
had been any substantial cause for the fear of the liberty of
Europe being menaced by Russia, the continental nations
would have been the first to combine against Russia,
whereas Belgium, Prussia, Sweden, Denmark, and Ame-
rica, all expressed it as their bounden duty to maintain a
strict neutrality. Austria, who had had a very difficult
game to play, had managed not to commit herself against
the Czar. All this he was saying to save a speech from
his friend Mr. Baines, and he wanted to ask them whe-
ther, in the face of these facts, any one would get up,
either here or elsewhere, and pretend that we have a right
to assume the position of an immaculate judge dealing
with a prisoner. He contended we were bound under
these circumstances to consider the condition of our brave
troops, and he confessed that his heart yearned for these
men, and that he could not sleep at nights for thinking of
them. Theirs was a case thatcommanded all our sympathies.
,If they saw no permanent object to be gained by encourag-
ing Government to continue this war—continuing it after
they could obtain terms of a fair and honourable peace—
they would have a great responsibility upon them, and he
was sure that in less than twelve months they would look
back with regret to the vote that they might this day give.
Re then alluded to the threatened French invasion two or
three years ago, when it was said Louis Napoleon believed
it to be his fate to avenge Waterloo, and he could not help
it ; reminded them that he opposed that notion, for which
be was represented in one of the caricatures of the day with
very long ears, looking into a cannon's mouth, and crying,
" Peace' peace !" (Cheers and laughter.) He referred
also to the opposition he gave to the claims of Don Paciiico,
on behalf of whom England nearly went to war with
Greece, and whose claim by arbitration was reduced from
26,000 i. to 150!., recommended to be given to-him in cha-
rity. Now, the misfortune was, that whenever ho was
right on these subjects, and those who opposed him were
wrong, that ho never heard them mention it afterwards.
What ho complained of was, that after a year or
two, people conveniently forgot all about these matters ;
and when it was found that his opinion was the right one,
no one took the trouble to remember it. He asked Mr.
Baines to reflect, Whether, in taking a part in these pro-
ceedings, he would two years hence be able to look back
with perfect satisfaction upon the vote which he was now
about to call the meeting to eve. At this moment the
terms of peace were being arranged, and it was quite
within the range of possibility that we might hear by
electric telegraph, before even these proceedings were
finished, something decisive had been arranged with re-
gard to the project for peace. He remarked upon its being
now the fashion to accuse the Czar of ambition and as an
incarnation of all that was wicked, and referred to the
private correspoudence between Sir Hamilton Seymour,
the Czar, and Lord John Russell, relative to the parti-
tion of Turkey, in which Lord John Russell panegyrisod
the character of the Czar, and Lord Clarendon, who
spoke of the "-word of his Imperial Majesty being pre-
ferable to any convention that could he framed." He said
that it was such fulsome adulation that it sickened him
(Mr. Cobden). In conclusion, the hon. member referred
to the impossibility of keeping back Russian aggression by
our present mode of warfare, attacking him in his own
territory, citing the failure of Napoleon's expedition to
Russia in proof of his views, and dwelt upon the miser-
able condition of Turkey as ground for belief that even ii
Russia did succeed in conquering Turkey, of which single-
handed there appeared very little chance, the country
would have required so much internal care and manage-
ment, that at all events for the next generation, which was
50 years, we had nothing to fear from Russia, and be should
like to know from some actuary, taking into consideration
the contingencies which surrounded the whole question,
and which might arise during the next 30 years, what risk
e
we ran from a Russian aggression on England.
thanked his hearers for giving him a p ti
en nearly one
ent and kindly
hearing, and then sat down, having spok
hour andi a half.
Mr. J. G. MARSUALL, late M.P. for Leeds, came forward
to address the meeting. He said he was sure that no other
man than one so popular as Mr. Cobden Nvonld have met
s that hon. member had when
with so patient a hearing a
he had just addressed a meeting the majority of which did
not agree with the hon. members views on the war. Re
thought that Mr. Cobden's speech might be divided into
two parts, or rather that the honourable member had used
two kinds of, appeal to the meeting—the one was to the
breeches pocket, and the ether was of a facetious charac-
ter. (Laughter.) He (Mr. Marshall) had no hesitation
in declaring that the war with Russia was a just one,
and that it ought to be prosecuted until an honourable
peace could be obtained. Much had been said by Mr.
Cobden about the abject and sad condition of the people
living in the Turkish Empire. Now, there was no doubt
that condition had improved, was improving, and would
improve, unless Turkey should be over-run by the hordes
of Russia. After replying to some parts of Mr. Coleden's
speech, Mr. Marshall concluded by proposing the following
resolution :—" That in the opinion of this meeting the
war in which England and France are now engaged with
Russia is a great contest, forced upon them by the outra-
geous aggression of the latter Power upon the Tur4iiii,

empire, and is intended to create a spirit of aggrandise-
ment on the part of the Czar which threatens the inde-
pendence of other nations, and this meeting is of opinion
that the war ought to be prosecuted with the utmost
vi ;oar, until safe and honourable terms of peace can be
obtained." (Applause.)
Mr. BAINEs seconded the resolution. When Mr. Cob-
den stated his intention of coming down to the West
Riding, his friends were desirous for his sake and for the
sake of the country to avoid any appearance of difference
of opinion ; but when Mr. Cobden determined to come,
they then had to consider what was the position in which
his constituents would be placed if the public wore led to
suppose that those constituents agreed in opinion with Mr.
Cobden regarding the war. His hon. friend had always
taken a part in most-strongly condemning the war, and in
so doing he had opposed himself to the policy of the Go-
vernment and the country. He stood, indeed, in an almost
isolated position on this question ; but Mr. Cobden was
himself so great and distinguished a man, and had played
so large and important a part for so many years before the
people of England and of Europe, that he could not come
down to address the constituency without the practical
effect being to stamp his opinions on their mind; and thus
far the effect would be that they would operate upon the
world, not merely with the weight of Mr. Cobden's name,
but also with the weight of the authority of the West
Riding of Yorkshire. It was, therefore, no longer possible
for them to listen in silence to the address of Mr. Cobden,
and they felt it their duty to declare that, though the
friends of peace, they yet looked upon the war in which
we were engaged as a just ono, and one dictated by sound
policy. (Hear, hear.) -He was sure; regarded the in-
terests of peace. that the resolution now proposed would
have no unfavourable effect upon the Government.
But there was another party to be consulted before they
could have peace, and that was the Emperor of Russia.
It was not by a resolution in favour of peace, but by a
strong army being sent to the Crimea that they could work
upon the mind of the Czar. (Cheers.) The true plan was
to be slow in going to war, but, once engaged in a just war,
to prosecute it with such vigour to an issue that their
enemy would not be likely to renew it again. (Hoar,hear.)
Mr. Cobden told them that false and fraudulent reasons
had been given for the war, and one of these he said was,
that Poland was to be re-established. To that assertion the
meeting had given the most decisive negative that it was
possible for a popular assembly to give. (Hear, hear.) '
Then he said he looked upon it as a war only of policy.
There he (Mr. Baines) differed from him. He looked upon
it as a war of policy indeed, but as a war in which the
principles of right and justice were involved. (Cheers.)
His hon. friend next told them that the Ministers had pre-
cipitated the country into a war. Why, the only blame
cast upon the Government hitherto had been that they
wore too slow in going to war, many holding the opinion
that war should have been proclaimed when the Russian
army crossed the Pruth. (Hear, hear.) Every species of
argument and inducement had been used by the Govern-
ment to induce Russia not to attack Turkey, and war was
not proclaimed till nine months after the Pruth had been
crossed, yet Mr. Cobden accused the Government of pre-
cipitating the country into a war ! (Hear, hear.) His hon.
fiieud admitted that the war was a just one as regarded
Turkey against Russia. Now, they called it a just war in
the resolution, and therefore he asked his hon. friend Mr.
Cobden to vote for the resolution. (Laughter.) Mr. Cobden
had dwelt in a way that he did not think very generous
on the defects and difficulties found to exist in the
administration of the Turkish priny. He did not think
this was exactly the time to dwell on that subject, and he
insist say he would rather have heard him spend his
splendid vocabulary of abuse on the Czar than the Turk.
(Here the hon, gentleman quoto.i a passage from the pen
of Mr. Cobden, in which he had cherecterised tho ambi-
tion, kc., of the Czar in very strong terms, and observed,
that systematic fraud, lying, and misrepresentation were
the ieeicy of the Russian Government.) (Laughter.) He
should. have liked to Liar some of this language applied
now - by his hon. friend to the cdudnct of Russia, but
his condemnation wag reserved entirely for Turkey. His
hon. friend areued that if the five Powers exercised pro-
tection over the Christians of Turkey they would just be
doing what they protested against as objectionable in
Russia ; but that was not a correct view of the case, for,
inthe first place, the five Powers could not lead away the
subjects of a sovereign from their allegiance as one could ;
and, in the next, all their interference on behalf of Chris-
tians of every denomination was to be by advice, and
not by control. (Hear.) Mr. Cobden had made some
strong remarks on the conduct of the war ; but into the
details of the war, into the question whether the military
operations bad been ill or well conducted, it was not his
intention to enter. He could easily believe that errors
had been committed in the conduct of the war, but those
errors were not the result of intention but of neglect. He
did not defend the errors that had been committed, but
he did not think the present was the time for considering
that subject. (Hear.) Then Mr. Cobden said we had sent
30,000 men to invade Russia, but the fact was that, though
we sent only 30,000, France also sent 30,000, which it in-
creased to 50,000 ; and he begged to remind him that the
original intention was not to invade Russia. The armies
that were sent out were sent lot to invade Russia, but to
aerteaereeresa, eset it unto nnlil
selves driven the Russians from the banks of the Danube
that Sebastopol was attacked. He (Mr. Baines) agreed
that that attack was made by too small an army, and he
thought the Government ought to have had more informa-
tion on the subject than they seemed to have possessed.
(Hear.) Mr. Cobden had said that England was ill qualified
to be a judgein this matter, because, within the last 50 or
or 100 years, she had added a larger extent of territory to
the British dominions than Russia had annexed to her
empire, but it must be remembered that our eastern acqui-
sitions were not intended for political but for commercial
purposes. As a European State, England had not only
made no acquisitions of territory during the last century
and a half—except Malta and the lonian Islands—but
she had not listened to suggestions to make such ac-
quisitions. He (Mr. Baines) had invariably been the
advocate of peace, but ho supported the resolutien in the
belief that they had reached a great national and European
crisis ; and that England was bound to take her part
with France and the other countries of Europe in set-
ting a limit to the ambitious aggressions and aggran-
disement of the Emperor of Russia. Mr. Baines com-
plained that the correspondence of Lord John Russell
and Lord Claresclon with reference to the Eastern question
had been unfairly quoted by Mr. Cobden, and he cited the
despatches to show that the policy of the Emperor of
Russia, which Lord J. Russell described as wise and bene-
ficial to Europe, was that which his Imperial Majesty "had
so long followed" previous to the secret correspondence,
and not that which the Emperor at that time proposed to
follow. Ho regarded this as a great and important crisis,
when a league was being formed which might affect the
destinies of Europe for ages to come. For the last cen-
tury and a half the attitude in which Russia had presented
herself to Europe was that of an ambitions, encroaching,
and selfish Power, while she was at the same time the
most despotic, intolerant, and barbarous of European
nations. Nothing was therefore more to be deprecated
than that Russia should acquire a predominant influence
amona the continental Powers. After referring to the
insolent proceedings of Prince Meuschikoff during his
mission to Constantinople, Mr. Baines observed that be
had been surprised to hear Mr. Cobden say that the whole
of Europe differed from the policy of this country, while
all those European G overnments —including Austria,
Prussia, and Sardinia—that had spoken on the subject had
declared that England was in the right and Russia in the
wrong. Mr Cobden had said that Russia was not for-
midable for purposes of aggression, whereas she had swal-
lowed up was-half of Sweden, two-thirds of Pohtnd, large
provinces in Tun 'key in Europe and Turkey in Asia; she
had taken from Persia tracts as large as England,
and had annexed immense territories in Tartary. For
years and ages the grand object of Russia had been to col-
lect vest armies and fleets, and to build fortresses and ar-
senals, with the view of foreign conquest and aggression.
These great preparations had been formidable to Europa,
and he thought this was a policy which ought to be re-
pressed. He knew there were gentlemen present who
would vote against the resolution. They did so en religious
grounds, and their opposition ought, therefore, to be re-
spected. hey would have acted exactly in the same man-
ner if, instead of having crossed the Pruth, the Russians
h e,l landed in the Humber. (Laughter.) They would have
given the same vote had the Cossacks been in Leeds and
Sheffield, and had a proclamation been issued, as in Wal-
lachia, to pay all taxes in future, not to the Queen's, but,
to the Russian Government. (Laughter.) Thes. gentle-
men acted from religious convictions, and therefore they
opposed. war-under all and any circumstances. (Hear.)
He could not sit down without expressing his satisfaction
at the admirable hearing which Mr. Cobden had received,
which was just such as he expected would be given at a
meeting held in the town of Leeds. (Hear.)
Mr. JOHN Jowm.2, jun.., a member of the Society of
Friends, moved an amendment to the effect that this meet-
ing, without expressing an opinion on the present war with
Russia, expresses a hope that tho proposed negotiations for
peace will be successful, and no mere blood bo shed.
J. PRIESTMAN, of Bradford, another member of the
Society of Friends, seconded the amendment.
Mr. R. M. MILNES, hI.P., supported the original motion.
He regretted that the occasion for the meeting had oc.
cured, because he feared it might go out beyond the con-
fines of this empire that there was a difference in the minds
of the people of England as to the propriety of proceeding
with the war. If the war was an unjust one, we had no-
•thing to do but to withdraw our army and our fleet from
the Crimea without making any condition at all, and
quietly submit to the terms of the Czar. But that was too
absurd, and even Mr. Cobden himself did net advise it.
No (me, at the same time, supposed that the people of
Leeds and of the West Riding were not in favour of peace,
but the large preponderance of the people of England were
opposed to asking peace of the Emperor of Russia. Mr.
Cobden had said that the eastern world would come into
the hands of the Christian population, and would not be
governed by the Turks. That fact, in a certain degree,
reconciled him (Mr. Milnos) to the misery of the present
war, because he hoped that the Christian population of
the East would soon be able to develops their capabilities
and the resources of the country in a natural manner, and
growing up into independent nations, would remove them-
selves from the rule of the power of Russia, which power
and rule was one of the greatest calamities that could befall
a country. (Applause.) After comparing the despotism of
Turkey and the despotism of Russia, and showing that the
former was of a weak character and the latter very strong,
Mr. Milnes said, the power of Russia was a mere children's
question of geography, for in the North they might see
her position both in Europe and Asia. Russia sought to
get possession of both the Sound and the Dardanelles,
towards both of which her empire approached. Let her
but get both of these, and then let tho people of England
see if it would be possible to prevent Russia forcing her
way over the vast continent of Europe, and to prevent
an increase of her power which it was most awful to con-
template. (Hear.) It was well that Ur. Cobden had been
allowed to make his speech in. silence. It was wise that a
moderate resolution haul been proposed by Mr. Marshall
for adoption by the meeting. Those who had drawn up
that resolution did not wish to continue the war a single
moment longer thao was necessary, nor did they express
any opinion on the way in which the war had hitherto
been conducted. For his (Mr. Milnes's) own part, he should
be glad if Mr, CoNou would go out to *Crimea as Co-
: