The Sun.
London, England, 1855-07-27 00:00:00

VIENNA CONFERENCES.

In reply to a question from Mr. LAMED,
Mr. LAING said he had intended to bring forward this
subject upon the motion for going into supply, but un-
deistanding that it would be more convenient for the pub-
lic business, he had arranged with the Government that
the discussion should be taken on Friday week.

TURKISH LOAN-
On the motion of .the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER the Turkish Loan Bill was read a second time
without comment or remark from either side of the house.

SUPPLY.—VOTE FOR EDUCATION.
The house went into committee of supply, when it was
proposed that the sum of 296,9511. should be granted to
complete the sum necessary to defray the charge for public
education in Great Britain.

Sir G. GREY then proceeded to explain that the sum
required for the present year was 381,9511. (of which
100,0001. had already been voted), in addition to which
there was a supplementary estimate of 15,0001., making
together the sum of 396,9511. The sum required last year
was 343,3731., showing an increase of 38,048&, exclusive of
that 15,0001. He thought some misapprehension existed
respecting the difference between the estimate for last year
and that for the present year, as he perceived that a notice
of motion had been given by an hon. gentleman to reduce
the estimate for this year to the level of that which he
supposed to be the estimate for last year. Bat the fact was
that the vote of last year was 263,0031., and the estimate
313,0001. ; the reason for the difference being that a balance
of 80,0001. remained from the previous year, which, added
to the 263,0001., made up 343,0001. The entire of that sum
had been expended last year : it was necessary, therefore,
that the house should-vote now the whole amount of
381,0001., to meet the demands for the year on which wo
had entered. The estimate was divided into twelve differ-
ent heads, the principal of which he proposed to explain.
The first head was that of " buildings." Originally, when
the money granted by Parliament was distributed by the
Treasury, the whole amount was applied to increase school
accommodation by means of aiding voluntary contributions
for the erection and improvement of schools. The propor-
tion of the vote for buildings this year amounted to
70,0001., being an increase of 9,000/. over the expenditure
on this account for last year. These grants for education
were first placed at the disposal of the Treasury in 1833,
and between that period and the end of 1854, 4,514 schools
had been erected, and 700,000 scholars provided either with
new or extended school accommodation. The number of
schools erected and improved during the past year was 262,
at a gross cost of 198,2791., of which 6),0891. had been
provided from the Parliamentary grant; thus leaving
about 138,000/. which had been voluntarily subscribed.
These voluntary contributions had, in fact, greatly ex-
ceeded the amount of the parliamentary grant. (Hear,
hear.) The next head was the grant for the purchase of
books and maps, which for the present year amounted to
4,0001., as compared with 1,7821. last year. The grant
for this purpose was first made in 1847, and up to the
end of 1854 the number of applications from schools
for books and maps had been 5,240. The total expendi-
ture for the seven years under this head, including the
voluntary contributions, in aid of which the grants had
been made, was upwards of 57,0031., and of this sum
15,000/. had been provided from the Parliamentary grants.
The first of the grants was for teachers, in Estimate N 0.12,
145,000/. ; the second was 12,0001., for those in the capita.
tion class, in aid of schools in rural districts which had not
received assistance. By a recent decision of the Committee
of Council on Education it was directed that a special aid
should be extended to rural as well as to urban districts.
That was the cause of the additional estimate of 15,0001.,
making in all 27,0091. Then came the grant for certificated
schoolmasters, 47,0001.; for assistant teachers, 5,0001. With
regard to pupil apprentice-teachers, their numbers had in-
creased to 7,596 at the end of 1854. Each pupil-teacher
was engaged for five years as assistant in the school, and
by that means the monitorial agency in these schools
was kept up. The testimony of the inspectors and of the
managers was in favour of this class ; and a return moved
for by the hon. member for Stafford showed that out of
12,000 who had entered, only 694 did not follow the busi-
ness of teaching upon leaving the schools. The next vote
was fur training schools, where, when these pupil appren-
tices were properly qualified, they would be entitled to ob-
tain exhibitions, and fit themselves for the highest positions
in teaching. There were 33 training schools for 2,000
scholars, which cost 30,0001. a year. Of the pupil teachers
1,500 completed their education annually in the training
schools. Great pains were taken to secure a regular and
systematic course of instruction in these schools, and the
reports of the inspectors showed their valuable character.
The whole system of pupil apprenticeship, training, and
certificates was, in fact, iu extensive and increasing ope-
ration. In ISSI the whole number of certificated teachers
in these schools was 1,173; in 1854 it was 2 281. The
training schools were reported upon annually by a Go-
vernment inspector. The machinery of these schools
was calculated to furnish the country with 1,000 well-edu-
cated masters annually, and with 7,000 or 8,000 qualified
assistant teachers. The standard of education was thus
materially raised in the country as regarded teaching.
There was one class of schools not specially named under a
distinct head in these estimates, bat which nevertheless
was included in them, namely, the ragged or industrial
schools. These schools received assistance at the rate of
10s. per head per annum for every scholar, and one-third
of the cost of tools, with half the rent of the premises or
land under cultivation—not every such school, of course,
but every one recommended for the grant to the Committee
of Council. The expense of the establishment formerly
borne by the Council office, 9,4311., was transferred to the
estimate. There was another item, that for inspection,
which was 31,940/. Last year there were 5,535 schools in-
spected by the Government inspectors. A general review
of the results gave 262 elementary schools erected, en-
larged, or improved ; 11 normal schools erected, enlarged,
or improved ; 919 grants accepted for the purchase of
books and maps ; 539 additional certificated teachers, 77
additional assistant teachers, 074 pupil apprentices for
assistant teachers, 667 schools in rural districts and the
smaller towns aided by grants not including industrial
schools, and 65 industrial schools receiving assistance in
1854. The students in the normal schools, who were in
proportion to 40 per cent of the accommod .tiou in 1853,
were equal to 50 percent. in 1854. Such was the general
result of this Parliamentary grant. The principle of the
grant was to. assist voluntary efforts, and to render them
wore available for the public service. The system had
been so far successful that it had elicited a great amount
of voluntary assistance, and had, moreover, raised to a
high point the standard of education. Looking at the
large number of scholars, the character of the education
afforded them, the number of certificated masters, it could
not be doubted that this system must be productive of the
most beneficial results, whatever should be the system of
national education adopted by Parliament, by providing a
larger class of qualified teachers than had hitherto existed.
The right hon. gentleman then moved the vote.
Mr. BARNES objected to the increase in the vote while
a large portion of the population refused to avail them-
selves of its advantages. He pointed out from the reports
of the inspectors that the system was not working satis-
factorily. In many cases its only use was to discourage
voluntary efforts. He thought that before the grant was
increased a committee ought to be appointed to inquire
into the working of the system, and he concluded by moc-
ha* that the vot be reduced by the 34,0001. increased from
last year.
Mr. Ewart, Lord John Manners, and Mr. Barrow seve-
rally supported the vote.
Sir J. PAKINGTON congratulated the house on re-
ceiving Mr. Barnes to the number of those who took a deep
interest in the important question of education. But ho
could not agree with him in wishing the vote to be re-
duced; on the contrary, he was glad that it had been in-
creased over that of last year. He was glad, also, to ewe
that a large portion of the grant was devoted to providing
better schoolmasters. He urged the importance of having
a Minister of Instruction, and hoped this was the last time
. Sir George Grey would move this grant in the capacity of
Secretary of State. Another change he advocated was
that the larger portion of the grants should not go, as now,
to the richer districts ; and he would further lay down
this principle, that no grant should go to any school which
excluded any children from the school on the ground of
religion. He believed this system was called for by the
state of religious feeling in the country, and that its adop-
tion would tend in a great measure to allay religious ani-
mosities.

Sir G. GREY replied to some of the arguments of Mr.
Barnes, and stated that ho hoped a Minister of Education
would be appointed before the vote was taken next year ;
and it was intended that that Minister should have under
his care not only education, strictly so called, but all mat-
ters relating to science and art.

Mr. HENLEY did not think the grant was excessive.
Ho objected to the over-training of schoolmasters and
mistresses, which ho said could only be obtained by cram-
ming ; and the mischief would bo continued by the mas-
ters afterwards attempting to cram the children with
knowledge which would he of no use to them in after life.
He deprecated Sir John Pakington's idea of refusing as-
sistance to schools unless children of all religious denomi-
nations were admitted, and he wished the Government
had at once negatived that plan. He urged the Govern-
ment to institute an inquiry through the country to endea.
your to ascertain the reasons why children did not avail
themselves of the school accommodation already existing.
He noticed generally with approbation several minor
points in the education system, and said be looked to the
improvement in the material condition of the people as the
best stimulus to an increased education of the people.
Sir G. GREY said the Government had no intention to
vary the terms on which grants were at present made to
schools connected with religious denominations.

Mr. MIALL said his great objection to this grant Was
that it did not answer its purpose or the views of the
house. It had never reached the dangerous classes, which
was the original object of the grant; but it had enabled
tho small tradesmen and yeomen to save the moory.r which
they wculd otherwise have spent in educating ,teneeinden„
children. Thus, in fact, they undermined the ino P
while it had no
tate
of the lower portion of the middle ()lasses,
changing their
Mr. COBDEN said the voluntaries were effect at all upon the very poor and danogn,eeryovrfursocmlatshseess.
He had always under-
ground in opposition to this system.
*lay seemed now to have
and next that they refused to rer
stood that they refused to separaeteeiyedeumcation from religion,
for religious education. But 3ati
abandoned that ground, and On the
;est, his opposition
thanedadduci
difficulties •which the
He admitted the
i nr refusing uds ionwgn
in the
was intended.
fact that this system did not zlch the class for whom it
grants for
.4.gentlemen
coming
their own schools, and .
adducing
' evanco, buthe put it to those -
to maintain that
that as a grievance, voluntaries placed the
thenhouse
whether they ought
t tenable in argument? He called
clearly no
join
with himselfandupon them,
therefore, to
present t system. He congratulated Sir John amending
Pakington on
the great advance towards just and liberal views n this
question, which he never expected to o
ago. The only obstacle to n, sound witness five years
came from the voluntaries; general system now
give up their religious scruples,
and as they were inclined to
to stand aloof from lending he urged them no longer
Ho could not admit that the
their aid to a general system.
trained. What was
iat the pupil teachers were over-
the functions of thewanted was a higher appreciation of
schoolmaster.
As to the attendanoe of
children at school,
he agreed with Air, Eenley that that

del -tended upon the material condition of their parents ;
and he feared that the unhappy war in which we were en-
gageJ would sink that material condition still lower, would
ditnin.;.sh the number of scholars and increase' that of cri-
minals. On the subject of a Minister of Education, he
hoped tiro house would come to an understanding as to
some gen, sral scheme before they agreed to that appoint-
ment.

After so me remarks from Mr. Philipps, Mr. Ha dfield,
Mr. Lloyd Davies, Mr. Thornton, Mr. Kinnaird , and
others, Mr.. Barnes withdrew his amendment, and the
original vote was agreed to.
The vote of 215,0001. for Irish education was also agreed
to, after some discussion on the propriety of erecting a con-
servatory in the grounds of the model farm at Glasnevin.
Some other votes were agreed to, after which the house
resumed.