The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-23 00:00:00

THE STATISTICAL SOCIETY.

DISCUSSION ON LOANS RAISED BY hat.
PITT.

On Monday evening the fifth ordinary meeting of the
Statistical Society for the session 1854-55 was held at
the rooms of the society in St. James's-square; W.
Tooke, Esq., F.R.S., in the chair. The attendance,
which was unsually numercus, included Lord Overstone,
Lord Harrowby, Lord Carnarvon, Lord Ebrincton,
ld.P., Sir C. Lemon, Sir J. 'Boileau, Bart., &c.
After the transaction of some routine business, a dis-
cussion took place on " the loans raised by Mr. Pitt
during the French war, 1793-1801."
Dr. FARR, who now opened the discussion, took an
opposite lino of argument to that adopted by Mr. New-
march,riaintaining in brief that Mr. Pitt did not make
the best targain on the part of the nation possible to
him at the time, and that the system of funding which
he carried cut was highly injurious. This view was
combatted by the Earl of Harrowby and Mr. Hill. Mr.
Hodge, Mr. Danson, and Mr. Neisen also spoke, the
discussion extending over a wide range of topics., and
betokening wide differences of opinion amongst the
members of the society on matters of finance. Late in
the evening Lord Overst(me rose.
Lord OVERSTONE, after observing that he had not
given the subject the attention it was entitled to re-
ceive, continued— I have seen but a portion of Mr.
Newrearch's pamphlet, having been interrupted during
the perusal, but I read that portion with the greatest
interest, and certainly felt that, to a great extent, I
agreed with him. I have never concurred in that
very common and superficial view of the subject
which would, from the mere fact that the nominal
amount of debt exceeds the amount of money received,
bring at once a charge of gross ignorance or neglect of
duty, or iudlfiereuee towards natirwal Interests, to one
of the greatest statesmen that has ever flourished in
Europe, and who was characterised by an order of

intellect seldom encountered in our history. (near,
hear.) Those who hastily attribute all this to Mr.
Pitt are speaking without sufficient study, and their
opinions must undergo a severe examination before
they can be entertained by superior and seriously-
reflecting men. It seems to me, sir, that the question
befoi e us this evening can be approached in a very simple
form. It is, a 3 I think, merely this—Was the money
borrowed by Mr. Pitt on behalf of the nation borrowed
upon the best terms which the circumstances of the
times permitted, or, from blameable waste or igno-
rance, was _it borrowed on less favourable terms

than he could have obtainea? Toanswer that we
have to ascertain the rate of interest at which the
loans were borrowed. That is a branch of the sub-
ject to which Mr. Newrnarch has well addressed him-
self ; and you will find upon reference to the figures
that the absolute rate of interest which we contracted
to pay was below, and not above, the market rate
of interest at that period. (Hear.) Another question
is—Did Mr. Pitt, in borrowing that money, give to the
lender a security which indirectly involved an injury to
the nation and a benefit to the lender beyond what
the nation paid for ? That again must be to a consider-
able extent a matter of positive calculation ; and if
calculated, it will prove, I think, that the advantage to
the lender and disadvantage to the borrower was not

so great as is ordinarily supposed. But we must re-
member also that these loans were the object of public
competition. If the advantages were so extraordinarily
great to the lender, how comes it that the lenders did
not raise their terms, and by the ordinary principles
which regulate the market price give higher and better
terms to the borrower ? We have been dealing with this
question tonight too much in an abstract or philosophi-
cal light. You must show that it was in Mr. Pitt's power
to do otherwise. Some gentleman objected to the argu-
ment that the borrower was in the hands of the lender,

and contended that the lender was in the hands of the
borrower. How was it in the case in point ? Mr. Pitt
was the person coming on behalf of the nation at a mo-
ment of great difficulty, when the national safety was at
stake, and he was therefore a borrower of absolute ne-
cessity, and an immediate borrower by necessity. (Hear.)
What were the circumstances of the lenders. They wets
perfectly free to lend or not to lend ; to lend now or
to wait another year. Under such circumstances, the
borrower I say was in the hands of the lender. He
must come forward and borrOw not only on such terms
as the lender offers, but must offer securities of such a
farm, character, and duration as will be mast popular
with the lenders. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Pitt was ne-
cessarily tied up moreover by the actual state of the
money market at the time. At that period the stock
market was loaded with a large mass of floating stock—
stock that is in the hands ofdealers and speculators. Mr.
Pitt could not n ait ; he must raise millions and tens of
millions at once, for thedefence of England was at stake.
His alternative was eithert to borrow to borrow
at a
winrl. And thatestockinwh ich
he did borrow, or nobe
e higherio d
we st o
havecks
,
a
was alive t,) these considerations awl conscious of the
ultimate
borrowingistanot period,
evidence in the fact that a portion of many of his loans
ltdim involving
ob;tlgratn ertaziensat ofio .
at
i,od
were borrowed in those stocks. He was as sagacious
in these matters as we are ; but the public safety
was his first consideration, and that provided for, he
took the portions of the debt then required in other
securiti: s. The issuing of exchequer bonds by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer in the late Ministry
was analogous in principle to that adopted by
Mr. Pitt. It was with Mr. Pitt ex :necessitate Iti-unt.
His lordship then expressed the alarm with which be
had heard the proposition to raise money for the state
by mortgage, and concluded with expressing the hope
that the country would not be desirous to augment the
debt, from the idea that because the property of the
country was augmented, an augmented debt would not
expose us and posterity to very many dangers.
The CHAIRMAN observed that he had a perfect recol-
lection of the circumstances under which Mr. Pitt had
effected these loans, and no one at that time believed
that a different mode could be adopted.
Mr. NEWMARCH then made an able reply to the various
objections which his paper had excited, and with his re-
marks the discussion was brought to a close.

Professor Simpson, of Edinburgh, has been requested
by Lord Panmure to provide the medical officers requi-
site for the formation of another civil hospital in the
East. Ho will be required, it seems, to select physi-
claw, surgeons, assistant-physicians, assistant surgeons,
apothecaries, and male and female nurses.
An absurd and unfounded paragraph appeerad in the
Times of Wednesday, beaded "Narrow Escape of the
Lord Chancellor," and affecting to give an account of
the falling of a ;tone that was being raised to a lantern
immediately above where his lordship was standing in
thebu t House
there Lords. There is, we believe, no lantern,
be or not, the stone, as we have
already
fell from a parapet at the end of the
whethers t stated,
oft e d ,
house, close to the reporters' gallery, and damaged the
representation of one of the solitary pair of silk stockings
possessed by Queen Elizabath. The Lord Chancellor
was delivering judgment at the table, and as every one
who has seen the house must know, full one hundred
feet from the scene of the accident. His lordship paused
in delivering his judgment, but it was merely to send a
messenger for the purpose of ascertaining whether any
one bad been hurt. Our contemporary deceives its
readers often, but never without a motive, and we sus-
pect there must be some strange political secret in the
attempt to wcrk on the feelings of the Ministerialists
A ith a feigned account of the narrow escape of the legal
corner-stone of the administration. We advise the gobe-
mouches to be on the alert.—Morning Herald.