The Sun.
London, England, 1855-05-12 00:00:00

TR.O4_B(IN, LONDON, SATURDA Y EVEN'ING, MAY 12 lAtiti

to Lord Harrowby, requesting him to do them the jus-
tice to which they were entitled.
The subject then dropped.
REORGANIZATION OF THE ARMY DEPART-
MENTS.

direction in all matters in which unity is possible—to bring
all the military departments of the army under one su-
preme directing control. Therefore, the provision of stores,
the manufacturing cf all those things which the Ordnance
manufacture—the manufacture of arms, of cannon, and
of ammunition—everything connected with the con-
struction of fortifications and barracks—in fact, all
the civil business of the Ordnance will be placed
under the distinct control of the Secretary for War. Ho
will, of course, have under him separate subordinate heads
for the different branches of the ordnance service. The
consequence will be that the commissariat department, the
medieal department, and the ordnance department will
come under the immediate control of the Minister for W ar.
The next point is the examination of the accounts. This is
a department of great importance. It is a department hav-
ing business to do which must be done, and be done under
some reponsiblo head. The offices of the Secretary-at-War
and the Secretary of State for the War Department have
already been united in the person of Lord Panmure. The
Secretary of State will continue to be the head of the de-
partment which examines the accounts of the officers.
This will tend, so far as public expectation goes, to the
consolidation of the 'edam,- departments in one head,
for the purpose of giving unity of action and prompti-
tude of execution. (Hear, hear.) The arrangements
which we propose to snake have been partially effected,
and will be immediately completed. They will, I trust,
as far as possible, accomplish all we desire. Of course
there will be an official head, who will have under him all
these different departments and their political management.
By political management I mean the direction of the troops,
the direction ofexpeditions, and everything connected with
the political relatiods of the country. He will also have that
which has hitherto been the duty of the Secretary at War.
He will also have the direction of the commissariat, of the
land transport, of the naval transport, and of the medical
and ordnance departments ; and all these departments will
therefore be brought under one head. I know that some
persons have thought that the principle of consolidation
ought to be carried still further. There are persons who
think that the Minister for War ought to bo that which
the Minister at War is in some countries—to be the Come
mender-in-Chief, and to have the charge of the discipline
of the army, as well as of the political relations and civil
branches pf the service. I confess that I, for one, am not
of that opinion. I think that there are practical objec-
tions to it, both as regards the interests of the service and
as regards other feelings connected with the working of
the constitution. The country is under parliamentary
government. Its Government are liable to change from
time to time, and they must be composed of men of poli-
tical character. Well, sir, if the Minister for War is to
be the director of the discipline of the army, he must al-
ways be a military man. I think that it would be fatal to
the character and spirit of the army to have a civilian at
the head of the army. Ido not think any army could feel
respect for a chief who is not a military man. His praises
will be invelid, and his censures not attended to with re-
spect.. It is absolutely necessary, is my opinion, that the
head of the army, the judge of the merits and demerits
of its officers, should be a military man.- It is impossible
upon all occasions, and in all changes of Governments,
that there should be a military man who has so de-
voted himself to political matters, who should be pointed
out by circumstances as able to represent the army in
the Cabinet. I think it very undesirable that such an
arrangement should be made. lam of opinion that if
all the patronage of the army should be dispensed by a
member of the Government of the day, it would be
an arrangement open to grave and serious objections.
I think the present arrangement ought to be continued.
There is great advantage in having the discipline of the
army superiatendod by a military man, not a member of
the Government of the day, and in having the patronage
of the army dispensed by a man not connected with the
political party which may at the moment be at the head of
affairs, but who will be at the head of the army. It is im-
possible for any man, however pure his motives or correct
his judgment may be, to meet with universal assent on
every occasion on which he has to exercise a choice. Com-
, plaints, therefore, must always be expected when the army
is governed by a military man ; but I will ask any gentle-
man, would not these complaints be multiplied in an infi-
nite degree if the patronage of the army were dispensed by
any person sitting on the Treasury bench, or a member of
either House of Parliament? He would be open to every
kind of invitation, and, of course, men aro naturally go-
verned by motives,; and it is quite clear that the induce-
ments to allow favour and partiality to overpower his
judgment of merit would be tenfold greater on the part of a
person belonging to Government than they could be in the
breast of a man who has no other object than the character
and officering of the army at the head of which it is his
good fortune to be placed. I have stated what has been
done, and what we are immediately going to complete. I
think these arrangements will accomplish great and im-
portant results, and be greatly to the advantage of the
military branch of the public service. These things are,
however, matters which cannot be made perfect at once.
It is possible that experience of the working of the arrange-
ments which are to be made may be defective. We have
clone that which we think to be for the best, and which
the circumstances of the case appear to require. We are
perfectly ready to reconsider these arrangements if it should
be found that improvements can be made upon these
which we are now preparing to carry into execution. I
can assure the honourable and gallant member (Major Reid),"
and the house that the great object which her Majesty's
Government have at heart—and I do not pretend to claim
any peculiar merit upon that account, because the object
of any persons who stand in the position of Ministers of the
Crown must be the same—l can assure the house that what
we have at heart is to render all the branches of the public
service as efficient as we can make them. We can have no
other motive than to carry out our duties to the best of our
ability. It is in this way only that any ministry—it is
only by correcting errors when errors have been committed
—it is only, wheredefects have been found out, by infusing
the utmost vigour in the publicservice, and the utmost en-
ergy which it is in the power of a Government to enforce
—it is only by these means that any ministry can expect
to carry the country through the great war in which it is
engaged. (Cheers.) It is only by these improvements in the
public service that any Government who are honoured by
the service of the Queen and the confidence of the country
can expect to render themselves worthy of either that ser-
vice or that confidence, and can expect to earn the appro-
bation of their Sovereign and their country. (Hear, hear.)
I therefore trust that if the country, from an impatient but
very natural desire of seeing these improvements carried
out by Government, have been led to impute delay, they
will not ascribe it to any slackness upon our part, or to any
apathy or indifference to the interests which it is our duty
to protect ; but that they will believe that the delay has
simply a' isen from the difficulties inherent in the arrange-
ments which we have had to carry into effect, into which
it would be unfitting for us or for any Government to ad-
vance, until by deliberation and mature examination we
had satisfied ourselves that what we were about to do was
the best which we could devise, and 'which would be most
likely to be attended with the advantages which it was our
duty to aim at. I Lope I have now satisfied the hon. and gal-
lant gentleman thet we are still entitled to the support of this
hou,e,which I must admithas hitherto been given generously
and largely to the Government. In all matters in which the
public service is concerned I am bound to say that the way
in which this house has granted to the Government all the
means which it has asked for affords a noble spectacle to the
world. Because it has allowed no party feeling, no strife, no
difference of faction to interfere with the public service,
and I certainly am bound to make the most handsome
apology to all in tLat respect ; but while that has been the
case with the house, the country also has been willing to
wait to see what arrangements, what improvements we
were able to make in the administration of public affairs ;
and I do trust the feelings of the house and the country
now will be that the changes which have already been
made, and those which we are about to make, as well as
the great and marked improvement in the condition of the
army abroad, fully justify the forbearance which the house
has shown, and entitles us to the confidence of the country.
(Hear.) Sir, we are engaged in a great struggle ; it is not
now simply a question of conditions; it is not simply a
question of those points which have been lately discussed ;
but all Europe—all the world—the whole human race have
their eyes fixed upon the contest now going on. (Hear.)
England and France, two great powers, are on one side,
and Russia, a gigantic and colossal power on the other,
and depend upon it the issue of the contest involves not
only a question of arrangement or condition, but on the
issue of that contest depends whether England and France
shall continue to hold the high position which they have
hitherto done amongst the nations of the world, or whe-
ther, on the other hand, we and France shell sink down to
the condition of inferior and second-rate States, and whe-
ther the enemy with whom we are contending shall hence-
forward be the dictator and dominant power of the world.
Mr. DlSRAELl—Recollecting the lecture which the Secre-
tary of State read to us last Friday, in regard to the great in-
convenience of interposing motions and raising desultory dis-
cussions.on motions of adjournment, which the right hon.
gentleman intimated was so great an abuse of the privileges of
hon. members when carriedto excess, that if it were persisted'
in, the house might find it necessary to restrain or restrict the
privilege, I must express my surprise to-night on finding the
Prime Minister taking advantage of the sane machinery, and
in a manner so entirely unexpected, to make a communication
to the house of some importance certainly, and to express sett
timents as to the intentions of the Government which, coming
from a man in his high position, were calculated to arrest the
attention of Parliament and the country. (Hear.) I cannot
help thinking that if the minister had to make a communica-
tion announcing important changes in the public depart-
ments, and especial y in those connected with the conduct of
the war, it would have been no mere surplusage of cour-
tesy if some notion of such intention had been given. It
would have been more convenient to the house and more dig-
nified to the noble lord himself, if due notice had been given
of his intention. (Hear.) I confess when I entered the house
and looked at the bill of our business for the night, I was
considerably surprised by the sort of portentous announce-
ment introduced to our attention by the somewhat extraor-
dinary notice which first struck my eye. I was told here of
the highly critical position of public affairs, and the increasing
anxiety and dissatisfaction which at present pervades all
chases of society, and that some gifted individual meant to
press upon the attention of the Government " the wisdom of
immediately anticipating those consequences which are certain
to arise from continual popular demonstrations, by at once in-
troducing such reforms in every branch of the state as are con-
sonant with the intelligence of the age and the just demands of
the people." (Heat., and a laugh.) One would have thought
after what was said the other night about the inconvenience
of desultory debates upon motions of adjournment, that a
subject of this kind would not have been brought forward in
this indirect manner ; and for some time I was at a loss to.dis-
cover what the object of this extraordinary notice was, and
who was its author. ' (Hear, and a laugh.) We bad a dis-
cussion the other night, whether the first edition of the
" Essay on Man" was published anonymously, or the reverse.
I happening to have a copy of the earliest edition in my pos-
session, ventured to say that it was anonymous, And it is
curious that when Popo published it anonymously he put in
sone false rhymes he order to put the town off the scent, and
that they should say, " Oh, this can't be Pope's, for he never
could have made these bad rhymes." (Hear, and a laugh.)
And so I suppose that the flagrant violation of grammar in
this notice—(loud laughter)—wherein we arc assured that the
increasing anxiety and dissatisfaction which at present " per-
vades" all classes of society—(a laugh)—was put in by tl.c
noble lord—(hear)—in order to put the house off the scent,
and that it might be said—Oh, this; can't be " Pope's"—it
would not be parliamentary to mention the other name.
Well, what is the answer of the noble lord to this intc-

Mr. F. FRENCH wished to ask the hon. and gallant
member opposite (Major Reed) who had a motion on the
paper7eirnilar to the notice of the hon. member for Ayles-
bury (Mr. Layard), if he would consent to put off his mo-
tion. He (Mr. French) did not think that it was advisable
in this manner to anticipate a debate upon which the fate
of the Ministry might depend.
Major REED said, in answer to the question of the hon.
member he could only state that he did not consider his
motion to be similar to that of the hon. member for Ayles•
bury. As an independent member, who was willing and
anxious to give to Government a most cordial support uu-
der the trying circumstances in which they were placed, he
was desirous to appeal to Government, and in particular ta
the noble lord at the bead of affairs, to make snob a state-
ment as would satisfy the anxiety of the country as was
consistent with his pubic duty. He would leave himself
in the hands of the house, but he could not assent to the
request of the honourable member opposite. His motion
was to call the attention of her Majesty's Government to
the highly critical position of public affairs, and to the in-
creasing anxiety and dissatisfaction which at present per-
vaded all classes of society, and to impress upon her Ma-
jesty's Government the wisdom of immediately anticipat-
ing those consequences which are certain to arise from
continual popular demonstrations, by at once introducing
such reforms in every branch of the State as are consonant
with the intelligence of the age, and the just dem,nds of
the people. He would remind the noble lord that when he
was called to office he enjoyed the confidence of the coun-
try, and great expectations had been formed of him. That
confidence had been disappointed, he regretted to say, but
he trusted that the noble lord sv,aild be able to make
such a reply that he (Major Reed) might be able to give
the Government his support; in any other case it would
be his duty to give it his most determined opposition. He
would not further trespass on the time of the house, but
he would address the noble lord in the words of the poet
Milton--

" Awake, arise, or be for ever fallen !"
(Laughter.)
Lord PALMERSTON--Sir, I am perfectly ready to ad-
mit that the hon. and gallant gentleman is justified by the
position of public affairs, and what ought to be the opinion
of this house and the general feeling of this country, in
bringing forward this motion. I find no fault with the hon.
and gallant member on that ground, and I am perfectly
willing to do justice to the motives which had induced him
to rise. It was perfectly true, as was stated by him, that
when it was her Majesty's pleasure to authorise me to form
a Government, public expectation had indeed risen high,
and, if I may be allowed to say so, had overrun the bounds
of reasonable and practicable execut,ion. (Hear.) It was my
duty to endeavour to obtain the assistance of those persons
who I thought was the most capable, from their position in
Parliament, to make a strong and efficient Government. I
was actuated by none of those considerations which have
been without cause imputed—of private partiality, or of
family connections, or regard for rank. My object was to
look around, to see the men who were most eminent and
distinguished in public life, who had shown themselves
capable by the part they had taken in public affairs, and
whose opinions were most in conformity with my own.
That, I apprehend, is the d uty of any man who may be
called upon by his Sovereign to form an Administration. I
know that it has been said by many that instead of taking
these persons whohave by their previous experience acquired
knowledge—who have displayed their abilities in public life
—who have devoted themselves to public affairs—it wasthe
duty of a person placed in the situation in which I found
myself, to have gone elsewhere, and to have selected a Go-
vernment of persons employed and engaged in commercial
and private affairs. My answer to that is plain and simple.
Those persons who have devoted themselves to commercial
an 1 business-like pursuits, who are endued by nature with
the high( et talents, have generally engaged themselves in
transactions which make it impossible for them to abandon
those pursuits for a precarious situation of political office.
Does not everybody know that Lord Derby, when he was
commanded to form a Government on a former occasion,
was desirous of having as Chancellor of the Exchequer an
hon. member of the house, the member for Huntingdon
(Mr. Baring),who is most eminent for his talents, and most
fitted for that situation, and whom it was an honour for
any Government to have enlisted in its ranks. (Hear.)
That hon. member was obliged, from the immense engage-
ments in which be was involved, to decline that offer
which Lord Derby then made to him. When I was form-
ing the present Government, I wished to avail myself of
the assistance of the hon. member for Wick (Mr.S. Laing),
who would have represented the commercial in his depart-
ment of Government. That hon. member told me that his
commercial engagements were such that he could not pos-
sibly abandon them, and accept the duty which I proposed
that he should discharge. The person who is appointed
to form a Government has not that freedom of choice
which some gentlemen imagine. He must look out, in
the first place, for public men ; for men who have, by
their former conduct, shown a capacity for the dis-
charge of public duties, and for men who are free from
private engagements which would prevent them from
accepting public office. Well, sir, I cannot but think that,
as it stands, Government is composed of men who are en-
titled, from their own ability and political acquirements
and sagacity, to command the confidence of this house and
of the country. But, sir, the hole and gallant officer says
he wishes to know what the views of Government are
with regard to the Ministerial changes which the voice of
the country has so loudly called for. Well, sir, lam free
to admit that considerable improvements are required in
many of the departments of State, and I can assure the
house and the country that these matters have not escaped
the attention of her Majesty's Government. Much hap
been done already, and very successful results have al-
ready been achieved. If we take the army, which is the
branch of the public service that has more peculiarly,
from unfortunate circumstances, attracted the attention of
the public, I am happy to say that the army iu the Cri-
mea is by universal consent and admission in as perfect a
condition as any British army ever was. I say that, not
from the mere testimony of officers who are friends of the
Government, or from official report, but from the unsus-
picious testimony of the Commander of the army of out
alliee, who has rendered honourable justice to the condi-
tion of our gallant army. Now, sir, lam asked what has
been done, and what is going to be done. (Hear.) In the
first place I will call attention to what has been done. It
is vain to conceal that when after a peace of 40 years'
duration we undertook an expedition ou a great scale, and
to a great distance, under circumstances of very consider-
able difficulty—it is in vain to conceal that great mis-
chances in the way of details and arrangements took place
—that those who were employed to execute those arrange-
ments, with which they were not conversant, have made
many mistakes. This was to be expected; it perhaps
might have been less ; but certainly it did happen to a
great extent, and was productive of consequences which
we must all lament and deplore. Now, sir, I will begin
with the Commissariat department. That department was
under the Treasury ; it has since been placed ander the Se-
cretary for the War Department. It is a military depart-
ment, and ought to be under the command of the military
chief. It ought to be administered by that officer of State
to whom belongs the charge of the military departments of
the public service. With regard to the details of that de-
partment, Sir John M'Neil, a most able man, was sent for
a temporary purpose to organise and arrange them. He
has acted with great success, and I believe the arrange-
ments of the commissariat service are as perfect as the
nature of such a service admits. Great inconvenience
arose from the combination of the duties of supply with
the duties of distribution and transmission—that is to say,
great inconveniences arose from the circumstance that the
same commissariat officers who were charged with provid-
ing the supplies ware charged with the duty of providing
the means of transport to carry those supplies from place
to place. That department has been separated from the
department of supply, and under the very able direction
of Colonel M`Murdo, the transport department has been
placed in a state of great efficiency. There is, therefore,
reason to hope that from henceforth the army in the
Crimea will be furnished with an ample supply of
everything which the commissariat ought to furnish, and
with an ample supply of the means of transport. Well,
sir, then comes the medical department of the army; that
department is about to be remodelled at home. New per-
sons will be appointed to the head of it. There will be a
military man united with a civilian, and both will be under
the immediate orders of the Secretaryof State for the War
department, with whom it naturally rests to give all direc-
tions for the management of the department, and to regu-
late all appointments and promotions in it. I am happy
also to be able to say that the hospital arrangements have
been placed in a most satisfactory condition. Not only
have civilians been sent out to assist in some hospitals,but
a commission, purely civil, well versed in sanitary arrange-
ments, whose names are well known, Dr. Sutherland, Dr.
Gavin—who, unfortunately lost his life by a sad accident
of recent occurrence—and Mr. Rawlinson, an engineer,
have also been sent out for the purpose of placing all the
hospitals in camp and quarters of the troops in a condition
as free from evil influences as it is possible to place them.
I am happy to say their arrangements have produced many
beneficial results. Well, sir, great complaints were made
of the want of sufficient arrangements for naval transport.
It is understood that, from the pressure of business, the
arrangements for this service were not carried out with the
despatch and promptitude that it was desirable they should
be. My right hon. friend who was then the First Lord
of the Admiralty, the member for Carlisle (Sir J. Graham),
made an excellent arrangement, by which the naval trans-
port service has been placed upon an official footing, from
which I augur the best results, So far with regard to the
commissariat, the medical, and the naval transport de-
partments. I trust that the arrangements made with re-
gard to these most important branches of the military ser-
vice have already produced good effects, and will prevent
the recurrence of those inconveniences from which the army
suffered so much in the course of the autumn and winter of
last year. Well, sir, with regard to what we are going to do.
Every body acquainted with military matters knows that
the part of our military arrangements which consisted in
the separation of a very important branch from the rest
of the military service—l mean the Board of Ordnance
—is an arrangement so inconvenient that it is highly
desirable to put an end to it. (Hear, hear.) My noble
friend (Lord Panmure) has given his anxious attention
to the framing of an important reformation in regard
to that department. I shall now proceed to describe
what it is intended to do to effect this object. I am sure
that the house will feel that it is almost more difficult to
remodel a department of the public service while the public
service is going on, than it would have been at a period
when, comparatively speaking, there was less pressure on
the time and attention of those persons who have to remo-
del it. When heavy business presses upon the beads of
departments, it is difficult not only to find time to make
them, but to make them without in some degree interfering
with the despatch of current affairs. In the first place, it
is intended to remodel the corps of Ordnance, and to abo

Admiral WALPOLE said that the report of Gen. Suther-
land showed so much that was discreditable to the authorities
in the transport service, that ho was glad an opportunity was
offered the right hon. gentleman to give a somewhat though
not altogether satisfactory explanation with regard to the
steps which had been taken on the taking up of the vessel.
it was not stress of weather which caused the leakage of th s
vessel, and there was no doubt that she would have foundered
if she had encountered heavy gales. He was of opinion that
an able officer in whom the Admiralty had confidence ought
to be stationed at every port to inspect ships which was to
carry troop, for though Captain Milne was an excellent offi-
cer the transport duty was so great that he could not super-
intend it all.

Colonel NORTH called the attention of the right hon.
gentleman to the last paragraph of Major Symonds' report, in
which it was stated that there was no fire-engine or force-
pump, and only 18 buckets on board the vessel. No remark
had been made on that in the official report sent to the Admi-
ralty. It also appeared that the ship had arrived from Bom-
bay in a very leaky state about 3 mouths before. He ques•
tioned whether the official who had to carry out the orders 02
the Admiralty had done his duty. The report also said that
the ship was always wet, and that great damage had been
done to the clothes and arms of the troops on board. He
should have liked to ask the Under-Secretary for War, if he
had been present, if the Government had taken any steps to
reimburse the officers and men of the sth Fusiliers and the 85th
regiments for the loss they had sustained. As to the manner
in which the ship was loaded, Mr. Green had been told of it,
and he said be could not afford to have the stowage moved.
Sir C. WOOD said the hon. and gall tut gentleman must
feel that it was impossible for him to come prepared -to give
answers on all these details ; but if the hon. gentleman would
come to the Admiralty he would give him all the information
he required. No notice had been given that reference would
be mad, to the Seringapatam, and it was only accidentally
that he brought the papers relating to that vessel with him.
Captain SCOBELL said whatever might be the real facts in
this instance, it was well that cases of this kind should be
brought forward whenever a ship in the transport service was
known to be ill found. He thought that the Transport Board,
if it was constituted of three persons of equal authority,
would not work well ; but there should be some supreme,
authority, with a council to ,advise him. You put a swim.,
a soldier, and a civilian together, and ask them to agree,
which was often impossible, as they saly things from
different points of view. He thought the constitution of the
Transport Board, should be re-considered.
The subject then dropped, and the motion for the adjourn-
ment of the house to Monday (it being then twenty minutes
to 9 o'clock) was agreed to amid loud cheers.

lish the office of Master-General. The corps of the artillery
and the engineers will be placed under the same authority
as regards matters of discipline which govern the army at
large. It has been the result of ancient arrangements; but
I, for one, could never understand the principle that the
line should be under one military chief, and the artillery
and engineers under another. It is not the case in
any-other army in the world, and it is strange how
it should have been allowed to go on for so long a
period in our own army. I think great benefits will
arise from these changes. It will be of advantage
at home, and of great advantage abroad. There will no
longer be the distinction which now prevails between the
ordnance corps and the army in general—a distinction
which does not exist in any other army, and which has on
many occasions been attended with great inconvenience to
the public service. The Board of Ordnance will be abolished
as a separate establishment. The office of master and lieu-
tenant-general will cease, and the military part of the Ord-
nance will be placed under the Commander-in-Chief, to
whom the discipline of the artillery will be transferred. The
civil department will also be placed under the Secretary for
War, The object has been to centralise—to give unity of

resting inquiry of the member for Abingdon? Here we are
told that we must have reforms in every branch of the state,
and the noble lord, considering " the highly critical position
of public affairs, and the increasing anxiety and dissatisfacti a
which pervades— (a laugh',—all classes of society," and with
the view of " immediately anticipating those consequences
which are certain to al iso from continual popular demonstra-
tions," has favoured the house with a most meagre and frigid
programme of those reforms in every branch of the state
which he intends to propose " as consonant with the intelli-
gence of the age and the just demands of the people." It
would have been well had the noble lord informed the house
and the country of the intentions of the Government in a les
artificial manner ; but, as far as I could gather from the noble
lord's speech, the only information of any in:lN:two, or

novelty which he has communicated to-night is that of which
notice was given, that the communication would be made in
another place. Now, I must say that is a strange way of ear
rying on the public business. (Hear.) Notice *as given in
another place, that great reforms and changes were to be
made in the departments connected with the conduct of the,
war, and that in due time the nature of those changes would
be there announced. But, though the notice was given in
that other place, the communication was not made there,
while here we have had the communicationwithout thenotide.
But what has the noble lord announced? I need not touch
upon the fact of his communicating to us the confidence of
the Government in the improved state of the army. That is
intelligence which must be gratifying to us all, and we have
only to hope that the noble lord has good foundation for
that confidence. (Hear, hear.) Nor will I touch up n the
sanitary measures which have been adopted for the im-
provement of the army in the field, or of the troops in
hospital—important no doubt all of them, but not suffi-
ciently so to be communicated as they have been to-night for
the purpose of inducing Parliament and the people Of Eng-
land to lose no heart in the great and historic struggle in
which we are engaged. The only announcement which the
noble lord has made conveying any information we did not
already know is, that the Government are about to introduce
a measure for the consolidation of the military departments.
(Hear.) Nor is there anything profoundly original in such
consolidation. (Hear.) The subject has been long under the
consideration of Parliament, and it has been submitted to the
scrutiny of select committees. For myself I may be per-
mitted to say that I approve entirely of the general principle
of such changes, but until we have the measure before us 1
can form no opinion of the prudence or the judgment which
characterises the mode in which it may be proposed to carry
them into effect. (Hear.) But it is not merely that the
mind of Parliament and the labours of select commit-
tees have been brought to the consideration of the subject
of these-changes that ought to have taken p'ace, even were
we not involved in a great—l had almost said a disastrous—
war ; but they have also occupied the attention of previous
Ministries. And it was only last year, when you said you
were about to appoint a uew:Secretary of State to preside
over the conduct of the war, that we pressed upon you not
only to appoint a new Secretary of State, but to define his
duties, and to place the department under one responsible
head ; you refused to follow our advice, and much of the dis-
aster, the disgrace, and the misery, which have since fol-
lowed, are, I believe, attributable to your neglect in that re-
spect. I shall not be told, lam sure, by the noble lord, that
ho is not responsible for what was crone by Lord Aberdeen's
Government.- Such a shabby excuse I am confident will
never be resorted to by him. (Hear.) The noble lord held
a high position in Lord Aberdeen's Government. He was
the Secretary of State, who was responsible for the efficiency
of the militia, and it is due to him, therefore, that that force
is in its present ineffective and disgraceful condition. (Hear.)
With regard to the noble lord's panacea forextricating us from
all our difficulties, the proposed measu: e, not recommended by
any novelty, for it 'is in principle the one which he re-
jected last year when it was pressed upon the atten-
tion of the Cabinet of which he was a member—
I shall reserve to the proper occasion, that is when it is be-
fore us, auy opinion as to its details. If the details by which
the principle in which I concur is proposed to be carried out
are salutary, and suited to the exigencies of the case., I will
support them ; but if they are not well considered, imperfect,
and unadapted to the emergency—if the measures to be pro-
posed for our acceptance are neither bold in plan nor well
considered in detail—l shall not be afraid to oppose them.
The subject then dropped.
THE TRANSPORT SERVICE.
Mr. BELLEW drew attention to the neglect which cha-
racterised the management of our transport service—espe-
cially in regard to sending out troops in unseaworthy ves-
sels. He referred especially to the case of the Seringapa-
tam, in which a detachment of troops had been sent to the
Mauritius last year. The vessel, it appeared, was seven-
teen years old, was classed as an inferior vessel at Lloyd's,
was sent out with the troops on board without being sur-
veyed after her previous voyage, and was in so bad a state
that she made 26 inches of water per hour, though
the weather was by no means .rough, was riot strong enough
to carry the ordinary amount of sail, and, but that the sol-
diers were kept constantly at the pump, would have foundered
in deep water, hundreds of miles from land. These facts the
hon. member confirmed by reports from Major Simmonds,
who commanded the detachment ; Lieutenant-General Suther-
land, to whom he reported at the Mauritius ; the master of
the Saringapatam ; and a letter from Mr. H. Bell, of War-
wick, who had a son on board. He should conclude by
making a few observations on his reason for bringing forward
his motion, which might seem as if intended to embarrass the
Government. He thought that if such reports as those of
men like Major Symonds and General Sutherland were taken
no notice of, it was the duty of some member of that house to
come forward and give the Government an opportunity of
explaining and giving the army some confidence in believing
that they were as much cared for as any emigrant who left
the country. He only wanted to learn whether any reform
had been effected in the transport service, and if so, what it
was?

Sir C. WOOD could assure the hon. gentleman that he did
not object to this case being brought forward; but he should
have been glad to have had a more specific notice of what case
was to be discussed, for he could not gatherfrom the notice of
motion what particular case was to be brought forward,
Mr. BELLEW said his reason for not giving a morn specific
notice was, that as the Secrefary for War had signed the papers
connected with the case, he supposed that he had submitted
so gross a case to the proper authorities, and he was n' :t aware
that he would be answered by the First Lord of the Admiralty.
Sir C. WOOD did not make it a subject of complaint, but
all ho wished was to show that unless some sort of notice of
what wis to be asked of the Government was given, it was dif-
ficult to give a proper exp'auation, and he hoped the house
would not impute to him want of care in not being acquainted
with the details of a particular case, when the notice was
only "to call attention to the transport service." He could
state that a reform had been made in the transport service ;
a board had been constituted of three gentlemen—a captain
in the navy, an experienced captain in the transp ,rt service,
and an officer in the army—all of whom were the most com-
petent persons that could be found, and he had every reason
to hope that the service would bo efficiently performed. With
regard to the particular case he was glad that these papers
had been brought forward, for they showed how great had
been the skill and gallantry of the officers on board this ves-
sel, and how creditable to them their conduct was. He was
sorry that anything of the kind had happened ; but he was
glad that an opportunity of explanation had been given which
enabled him to show that no care or precaution had been
omitted before the vessel left.this country to ii,sure her being
in a proper state. There was a survey, and there was no
reason to suppose that she was not in a fit state for the voy-
age. He happened to have with him one or two docunieuts
relating to the Seringapatam ; for when the report of General
Sutherland was received, the Admiralty called on the pro-
per officer to report what had been done. It used to be a
complaint against the Transport Board that they did not take
up ships from the best owners. In this case, out of eight ships
which wire tendered, six belonged to owners who were said
to be favoured, while two, of which the Seringpatam was one,
belonged to Messrs. Green, a firm of the highest character,
and that alone would be considered a guarantee of their ship ;
but besides that, she was warranted by them. It appeared
that the vessel was built in 1836, and was classed A 1 at
Lloyd's for twelve years ; at the end of that time—in 1849
she was resurveyed by Lloyd's, and was found in' so good a
state that she was continued in the first class for four years
more. In 1850 she was again surveyed by Lloyd's, and placed
in the second class, or E dipthong red, which was next to the
first class, or Al. It was stated by Messrs. Green that be-
fore she was takes. up the vessel was put into thorough re-
pair. She was also surveyed by the transport officers before
she was taken up, which was indispensable, and the report
of the surveying officers was that she was in thorough
repair. When General Sutherland's report was sent
in, these officers were called on for an explanation, and th y
sent in•a report dated January, 1855. (The right hon. gentle-
man then read the report, which stated the classification and
survey of the ship at Lloyd's, as he had already stated
above, and that she showed weakness, and laboured at sea
owing to the improper stowage of some heavy railway iron.)
It therefore appeared th,t there was no negligence on the part
of the surveying officers, or the persons taking up the vessels,
in ascertain ng whether she was seaworth-. If there had been
an improper stowage of heavy iron which caused her to labour,
that did not show that she was not properly looked to before
she sailed.