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London, England, 1820-02-25 00:00:00

el the Homo. Common,. He hid not thileast ob.
jection to the first Rs's°lotion, as it merely recited
the votes of the Committee of Supply of the other
House; but after it, instead of the two othet
Itemlotions, he should beg leave to suggest
Olk SS 44 ft VS cht rolleair4
caret
I. is eowereptenre of the
4110111Ribel11141111*lo ompsimetiv vete* of MO
whaiolite• me_srplicatios of the soon treeusiotwei,
diets 'whet oflhirtirateuet bad brio 'rased for tire appro. •
jittiliiiefir of the sold saws."
The gaesto!it on 4)te amendment having been put, '
The alinqui, of LA NIEDOWN 9441, tbat the
ithible. Lord opposite losol opposed Nohk
Ilftelessd''s Revelations, on the ground of their east-
ittig •Temure on tlee Muer of Common.. But he •
lasokl not view them in that light ; they did not
*test on the House of Commons any ranee than
em the Ministers who had advised the King to (be-
ndy, the Parliement in such an unprecedented
manner. By the terms of the Message from his
Majesty. this House had been called upon to tumor
with the other House in such measures as were in-
dispensably necessary. But had they concurred in
the very important measures tinder consideration ?
lo; notwithstanding this invitation, this question
hid been looked upon as one not fit for their Lord-
ship.' consideration, as one not proper to he discuss..
rd here. Way there ever a Minister who would
'have dared to bring down a Message to this House,
requiring them to give up their functions, and resign
Wm into the hands of the House of Commons ?
Not one; yet such, it was urgued, ought to he the
effect of the late one. He (the Noble Marquis) had
been greatly surprised to hear the construction
put by the Noble Lord, on the declaration of 1784.
Their Lordships had for several years wisely 'di-
sdained from originating any grants of the public
money in that House ; without formally • aban-
doning their right of melting such grunts, they fish.
lowed the wise principle that the grants of the
public money ought to originate in the other
Hone of Parliament. Whilst they acted thus,
iltey should at the same time watch with jealousy,
ansi oppose with vigour, any attempt to deprive
them of the power of rejecting any grant passed in
another place. Ills Noble Friend had properly
said, that if ever any sentiment unfavourable to
the Constitution should field its way into the house
of Common% it would first manifest itself in un
attempt to deprive their Lordships of their right of
regulating the grants fur the public service. It
was therefore their Lordships peculiar duty to
guard ao.iitist any such encroachmenls. The Noble
Earl (Liverpool) in his speech h.d (iverlrooked an
etnerveliou made by his Noble Friend. which he
(ihe Marquis of Lestidown) thought worthy of
reply. His Noble Friend, as well as himself, might
be in error ; if they were, it was in consequence of
the proceeding adopted on this occasion. His Noble
Friend sand, that iu consequeisce of the course *dine-
ed, the continuance of the allowance out of the Con-
welidated Fund wanted to his Majesty, when Prince
of Wales, would still remain concurrent with the
grant to leis Nlejestv as Kong—for certainly as the
matter stood, the effect of the grind, as King. did
not unnul the grant us Prince of Wales. It was
not in the view of Parliament that the ellowance to
his Majesty, as King of England, should remain
conctirteut with the allowance formerly granted to
Min as Prince of Wales. He hoped the Noble
lord would explotin the matter. As to the Resolu-
tion of Lis Noble Friend. he thought it was not
More thin the occasion warranted; but he would
not oppose the amendment of the Noble Lord.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that the inten-
tion of Government was to contnitie all peyinetits
,for the current quarter. It was an act of liberality
to pay up all annuities and plovisiottos to the quar-
ter-day after the death of his Majesty. There
(wild not he an act more outrageous to the claims
of individuals than that all allowances to the indi-
viduals should crone on the day of his Majesty's
death, Matead of being carried up to the quarter.
day. which prevented much inconvenience to a
number of individual.. The question with respect to
the allowances of all the branches of the ltuyal Fa-
Wily would go under the islet-46point' of the Par-
liament, it a time when they could give it more
consideration than Ist present.
Lord DONOUGIIIIORE said, he thought enough
was dour by the Amendment of the Noble Earl
(Liverpne) to vindicate doe privileges of the House.
After his Lordship sat down, the question was
put on the Amendment, and carried without a
division.

. . •
went to disfrinthise the borough pko lento, sad
could they do jostle, if they prevented Counsel
from being heard egsinst it ? Should their Lord.
ships refuse to make an order on the present Poi-
slop, they should discharge the order made on a
I;f4W4 iftWetWell TIM othe lileht lit VOW the pre-
sent Bill. Surely their Lordships were not pre.
pared to say that the electors of Bartedople ought
but to be heard by Counsel against the Bilk be-
cruse their rights happened to be mixed top with
the rights of others. If this were admitted, no-
thing could be more easy than to lump six or
wren boroughs together, and then contend that
none should he beard against the principle of the
Bill. The present Bill went to direct the Sheriff
not to obey the King's writ in electing members—
and thereby, pro Santo, to take away the right of
the electors. Their Lordships might recollect.
that formerly they hall deprived boroughs of
franchises which they were afterwards obliged to
acknowledge ; and if ever there was'., case where the
parties were entitled to a heuring, it was in the
rise of the borough of Barnstaple, *hick had been
already partly heard, and *here so much might be
urged as to whether that borough ought to be ins
chided in the Bill or not.
Earl Gaosvetiost said that this was a case in.
volvierg the privileges of the other I louse. It would
be paying them • irry bid compliment indeed,
to throw any impediment lit the ley of a measure
which respected those privileges.
The LORD Cu ANC EL LOR explained.
The Marquis of Lauswowti—The House most
see that there was a wide difference between the
suspension of right's and absolutely taking them
away ; yet every word uttered by the Noble and
Learned Lord went to establish that the suspen.
mon and the abolition of the right was the same.
The suspension of a right was certainly a great evil;
it wail also sin evil to suspend the rights of property
iii a Court of Law, but the ends of justice in both
cases required it.
Lord DACRE said, that at any other time it
might be desirable to hear Counsel against the Bill,
at the present moment it was impossible; the ques-
tion then was, whether they would pass this tempo-
rary measure, or whether they would give soother
opportunity to those boroughs, whose practices
were so notorious, to introduce Members into the
new Parliament. Their Lordships must le anxious
to prevent that ; they must know that much of the
diessti.faction of the country arose from the noto-
riety of the mode by which Members get into the
oilier flouse of Parliament. There would be rio
injustice clime in passing the present Bill, as another
noportunity would be affiriled to the electors of
Barnstaple to oppose the disfranchisement of that
borough. Wish respect to the order made on the
other petition, lie did nut see that their Lordships
would have airy difficulty in rewinding it.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, there were two
Members at present in the other House, fur the
borough of Grampouud. He did not know of
more honourable men, or better Members of Par-
liament. With respect to the notorious practices
of those boroughs, he could point out other bo-
roughs, known to friends of his, fist might share
the same blame. That was not the time to go into
that consideration ; when the time arrived he
could talk of the practices of other boroughs, as
well as those included in the Bill. If the rights of
all the boroughs were to be suspended for acts of
corruption, he did not know which of them would
remain.

Their Lordvhips then divided, when the numbers
were—

COlllenia l2
Not-Contents

Majority 1
Counsel will therrfore he heard to-morrow (this
do') against the Baal.—Adjourned.

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