The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-17 00:00:00

EAIPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.)
_ ROYAL ASSENT.

The Royal Assent was given by commission. to the
following bills, viz.:— the Exchequer Bills (17,183,0001.);
t 8 Common Law Procedure (Ireland) Bill ; The Mu-
inY Bill ; the Marine Mutiny Bill ; Tea Duties Decline
Suspension Bill ; the Secretaries and Under-Secretaries
ef State Bill.
• LThe Lords' Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor,
ord Stanley of Alderley, and Lord Monteagle.
Their lordships then adjoureed during pleasure.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the wool-
ascii at five o'clock.
~...Lord SHAFTESBURY presented petitions from
Nottingham and other places, praying for the closing of
Public-houses during the whole of the Sabbath.
Lord MONTEAGLE moved for a continuance of the
• return of penny s'anaps issued to the different newspa-
pers op to the sth of January, 1855.—Agreed to.
from
Earl of ALBEMARLE presented a petition
'Tern Bristol, praying that the war might be prosecuted
With the utmost vigour.
THE HORSES SHIPPPED TO THE EAST.
The Earl of ALBENTARLE moved for a return of the
camber of horses shipped to the seat of war by her Ma-
3e6tY's Government in sailing or steam transports, for
the
purposes, during the year 1554 ; the amount of
he tonnage of, and the number of horses conveyed in,
each vessel ; the number of horses that died on the pas-
-8/110, or were rendered unserviceable in each vessel ;
!slid the average expense of the conveyance of each horse.
-the noble lord stated that his object in bringing forward
-the
subject was, if possible, to persuade the Minister of
hear to desist from the present method of shipping
horses, and, at least, to give a trial to the plan adoptedt
.
up. He contended that the system of shipping
horses at present pursued by the Government was the
Worst that could be by any possibility adopted. The
horses suffered immensely from the cruelty ; it
"6 a loss to the country, and utterly unneces-
..:arY for the services required. The difference be,
"en the system pursued by the Government and
thatatlittll was in two points--the one was thatthe cavalry
Ones were only allowed a width clear, while the horses
shipped at Hull were allowed 3 or 4 feet. It might be
,1111Pposed that by giving double the space to each horse
L'uere would be a double expense. He thought he would
be able to show satisfactorily to their lordships that the
4111)ense attending the Hull system would he one-third less
• to the Government. The other point of difference was.
that the cavalry horses were never allowed to lie down.
-It •
1- signified not what the length o the voyage was, the
horses were never allowed a moment off their legs. In
• considering the expenses of the system followed by Go-
-I:ernment, there was, first of all, a eletferin to
6 erected, upon which the horses were to stand,
11P0,w which were raised pillars, posts, and
~
a"st and each horse found itself wedged in
between the rails so tightly that it was hardly able to
;stli°fe- The Government were also put to great expense
'Lithe purchase of sheepskins and other contrivances to
Prevent the horses from being chafed by friction. When
it was considered how many horses died on the passage
through the treatment they had received, ha thought
that this of itself was a fact greatly in favour of
the Hull system. The noble earl then referred to the
limits of the system under which a greater space was
-
given for horses on board, and accommodation afferded
them for lying down, and proceede wouldow that, taking
rill things into consideration, there positively be a
'sting
to the Government and the 'country of more than
-,,11e-third of the expens. that they were subject to under
• , the present system. The noble earl then concluded by
matingthat the best places for embarking horses were
a4llllol.lth and Plymouth, as none of the difficulties ho
all mouth
to there existed.
The Earl of LUCAN agreed with the noble earl that
,
horses should be conveyed as far as possible by land.
„„e was perfectly ignorant of what was calico the Hull
Item,-,Jf and until the last few days he had never heard
He agreed with the noble earl that every horse
ought to have the power of lying down. He also agreed
With him that there was a great loss sustained by the
evernrnent in the number of horses which they con-
ivh
-"eYed.in proportion to the tonnage of the vessels ; for
,° average was considerably above 10 tons for a horse,
Which the noble earl stated to be the average in the
the trade ; but the noble earl had argued as if it was
e intention of the Government to ship all the horses
niboard sailing vessels ; he hoped it was not the case ;
1:141Q he he thought that the experience of the last twelve
141
oliihß, and thesmall number of losses which had arisen
<la wone successive voyages made by the steam ves-
ts,: d show the great necessity of employing steam
-4aports. He did not know of a single case in which
4.steam-vessel had lost a large number of horses.
the aPoke from memory only, but he believed it to be
hordes
fact that the Simla did not lose more than five
14%; the Himalaya, which carried above 400 horses,
0Y lost one ; the Jason, out of 237 horses, lost only
fe also. He believed that nothing could be more per-
. stet than the taking up, by the Government, of the
vessels. Thus, within the last 12 months, they
had not only carried the British cavalry, bul the French
cavalryi also, together with a large number of transport
itetLtitia.
18 ; and if they took the average that had been
8 , It would be found that it was not one per cent. He
thought
that where a system had worked so well it
Would be very hazardous to adopt a new system which
they did not understand.
- , Lord PA.NISIURE said that, if the only question at
issue was as to the comparative merits of steam and
Bailing
vessels as transports, he entirely concurred in
the view of the noble earl who spoke last. There
could be no doubt that if steam vessels were at their
command, with capacity between decks, the length of
the voyage would be much shortened, and the suffering
of the horses would be much less than in sailing vessels,
While the fittings and accommodation would be much
more complete. But the noble earl seemed to think
that in the transports, of which the Government availed
itself, it could, at its own control, command steam vessels
for the purpose of conveying the horses. He wished
entirely to disabuse the mind of the noble earl, and that
of the public, as to the number of steam-vessels at the
%I:amend of the Government. The Government took
41) as many as they could, having reference to the na-
ture of the service they were called upon to perform ;
hut Considering the vast number of horses which had
ss°,l:l3 and which would still have to be, conveyed from
"41a country to the seat of war, some sailing vessels
must of necessity be employed. The question was whe-
ther that which had been called the Hull system"
,itheuld be adopted, or that system which had been car-
' "ed out under the auspices and directions of the best
ca•
valry offic:rs, should be continued. He understood
'l6 principle of the "Hull system" was to take a vessel
°ft about 300 tons, and strip her altogether 'tween decks
Z-ura stem to stern. She was then fitted up with refe-
.i3erife only to the conveyance of the horses to be put on
:ard, but without any regard whatever to the number
nen who were to accompany them. Those horses,
as he understood, were shipped as a matter of traffic
.etvreen dealers at home and purchasers abroad ;
~,-41(1 not more than four or, five men accom-
tallied every 100 horses. He understood the room
given to horses by the Hull system was 41, feet,
Vile in the Government system it was only
Would
rest, so that it was clear the Government system
would admit of more horses being shipped than the Hull
t9tnil. By the Government system horses could never
e down, but, by the Hull system, the moment bad
;feather set in the horses rolled about. He was in-
t°,lliled the moment the storm was passed, and the mo-
' .°4 of the vessel became less inconvenient to horses,
4ifter a very few days they experienced far greater relief
,ban if they were enabled to lie down. He had a return
-41 his hand, which stated that year the total number of
horses shipped was 3,100 in sailing vessels and steamers.
• those, 92 were lost, being about 34 per cent. of the
bee's' shipped in steamers, and of those in sailing trans-
,,l"B, 78, being an average of 3 4.sths per cent. The
average length of the passage of steamers was 16 days—
that of sailing vessels 39 days. This clearly showed that
the system of carrying by steam-vessels was far to be
Preferred to that of sailing vessels ; but when steam-
Zessels could not be obtained, and sailing vessels could
,se had recourse to, he maintained that, according to the
g3' esent system, by the return he had read, he thought
;1." had no reason to find fault with a system by which
• Zei had been enabled to carry horses a distance of 3,000
'tea at so small a loss as 3i per cent.
The Earl of LUCAN again rose and•said he believed
that
s when any horses were 14 days er three weeks at sea,
" Would be impossible to work them again for a consi-
derable time. He had known a great many cases in the
Ilth Lancers, in which the horses suffered from fever in
s'
the feet, and of two detachments sent after Lord Cardi-
, 1,4841 on the patrol in the Dobrudscha—of that party, 80
'‘-`tifaes of the Royal Dragoons, and 12 of the 11th, never
• • recovered from the effects of fever in the feet. He
. thought the Governinent had a sufficient steam power
At their command, if they had made proper use of it. If
theyhad sent to Balaklava harbour, he would under-
' ,to say that they would find steam-vessels that
*OOl4 land a very large force of cavalry at Censtauti-
• bfple within the next six weeks. Why could not the
Government bring home the Jason, the Simla, the
Trent
They were of no use at Balaklava ; nobody
Wanted them there. He did not think the Government
• I"ghtto allow those vessels to remain idle in Balaklava
• harbour.
The Duke of CAMBRIDGE—I entirely agree with
•thenoble lord (Lord Lucan) as to the disadvantage of
system of carrying horses by sailing transports, but
testiannot help thinking that some arrangement might
bmade by which some of those large steamers might
e made to carry those horses, and I think a little ar-
• 0
f t gement would enable us to carry them with more
• I.Y,than sailing vessels. The Himalaya was only a
„4...t'light on the voyage, and at an average of 39
," she might make two or three trips in that
vet'
ob.l°d• I, therefore, do hope. you will permit me
1,`"121Y to impress upon my noble friend '
11% to be derived by a regular course of steamers.
think there lies the whole difficuly. (Hear.) I think
ua cmght to have one steamer every fortnight to oarry
fiend
horses. With reference. to what fell from my noble
rend above (Lord Panmure), as to the horses sent out
in
IFailing ships last year, I happened to be Inspector-
General of Cavalry at that time • I inspected those yes-
l', and I had the advantage of having an interview
bath r. Goodwin. I never saw the Hull system, but
tilt Goodwin explained to me that by that system the
• had been cleared so, that thus room was found for
the
horses to lie down. Now, I beg to submit that it is
Ittre
inconvenient at e that a large space should
sacrificed. Yon must carry drettoons and all their
„ T i. 1,
k 't) ,
"
, reali " As regaros the iiLtit.g of those they
is Y Were as well fisted as any ships could be. There
the great difference between battens and shingles— 'hips, and I must say I prefer he shingles ; but

as far as the fitting of the ship is concerned, I may
rirmtio:a that the ships fitted up at Deptford was as
credits ble and satisfactory as could be. (Rear.)
Lord. PANMURE said, with reference to the steam-
vesse'ts, the impression should rot go abroad that any of
them were lying useless. There was not a steam•vessel
in the Black Sea at this moment that had not their
duties assigned to them, or where the opportunity oc-
curred. -these vessels had not been brought home ; and
where i”r the Government could avail themselveS of
steam-m;ssels they had done so. (Hear.)
After• a few remarks from the Earl of ALBEMARLE in
reply, aad from the Earl of LUCAN, the motion was
withcb sn.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILL.

On the motion of the. LORD CIIANCELLOR, this
bill wa a read a third time.

The Commons Inclosure Bill was read a second time.
GENE,:::-.tAL FAST AND HUMILIATION DAY.
Earl GRANVILLE moved that the Bishop of Salis-
Lury b e requested to preach a sermon before their lord-
ships Westminster Abbey on the morning of Wed-
nesday next, the 21st instant—that day haying been
ordere I by her Majesty to be observed as a day of genet al
fast anal

bouse adjourned at 20 tninutes to seven o'clock
until I tfanday.

HOI USE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair shortly before four
o'clock.,

NEW MEMBER.

The Etight Honourable W. KEOGH, the new Attorney-
Generalt for Ireland, took the oaths and his seat, on his
re-election, for Athlone.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The 'c,llowing bills were real a third time and passed :
Cam bridge University and Town Water, Over Dar-
wen G Podsey Gas, Taunton Gas, and Woolwich
Consun.s'ws' Protective Gag.
PETITIONS.

Mr. THORNELY presented a petition from Woirer-
hamptn et praying for the repeal of the newspaper stamp.
Sir WALMSLEY presented a similar petition.
Also a p etition from the L9icester Gas Light and Coke
Compaix T, against the Public Health Bill.
Mr. .SIUNTZ presented a petition from a newspaper
proprietor in Birmingham, praying for the repeal of the
newspaper stamp. _ _

iiIICEIELL presented a petition from a place in
the We 3i. of, England, against the sale of intoxicating
liquors o a Sundays.
Mr. G OULBURN presented a petition from the
National School Society, against certain clauses in Lord
J. Russ el l's Education Bill.

Sr . ANDERSON presented a petition from Glas-
gow prig ink; f,T the repeal of the newspaper stamp.
Mr. _=*;COBE11:14 presented a petition from the publi-
cans of alth, praying for the repeal of the Beer Act of
last sess7A 01.

Yr. EORSFALL prennted a petition from Liver-
pool a,g a net the opening of the National Gallery and
lA:uscum on Sundays.

Lord B . GROSVENOR, presented a petition agreed
to at a pu-elie meeting of the working classes of Westmin-
ster,'praying that public houses should be closed during the
whole of Sunday. On the motion of the noble lord the
petition 'was read by the clerk at the table.
Mr. STAFFORD presented a petition from Nor-
thamptc.rt, praying that the entire system of promotion
in the a:lily by purchase may be abolished.
Mr. A— PELLATC presented a petition from a tallow
boiler in Lamly,tl), now a prisoner in Horsemonger-lane
prison, stating that twelve months ago he was indicted
and convicted under the Nuisances Removal Act and
fined 1001., but bong urab!e ti pay the fine
he had 'a:en imprisoned ever since. The petitioner
prayed t asbt the house take his case into considerfition
with a view to his liberation.

ROYAL COMMISSION.

Mr. 1? UL7vIAN, the Yeornati Usher of the• Black

Rod, app eared at the table and summoned the house to
attend at, the bar of the Peers to hear thc Royal assent
given by commission to several acts, for which see Lords'
report.