The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-13 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT •

HOUSE OF. LORDS,—(YESTERDAY.)
SECRETARIES AND UNDER-SECRETARIES
OF STATE BILL.
Earl GRANVILLE briefly moved the second reading
of this bill.
Earl GREY said he understood that the bill was ren-
dered necessary by the recent consolidation of the old
War-office and the new department of the Secretary of
State for War. He could not say that he did not enter-
tain serious doubts whether, even as a temporary measure,
that was, as a whole, the best measure which could be
adopted, nor that it did not fall extremely short of the
general reform of the military departments which he was
convinced was necessary, and the urgent necessity of which
was more. and more proved by every day's experience, and
by the new disclosures of mismanagement which had ex-
isted. But although, as he said, that measure could not
be considered as effecting all the necessary general
improvements in the military departments, still he
could not but feel that it was not proposed with that
view by the Government. Shortly after the appointment
of the noble lord the Secretary of State for War to his
present office, he said, among other things, thet the atten-
tion of her Majesty's Government should be called to the
subject of the constitution of the military departments.
The Minister of War had promise:?, shortly after his ap-
pointment to office, to consider the means of consolidating,
under one Minister, the whole of the civil administration ;
but at the same time, he stated that he could not turn his
attention to that subject until he had directed it to
others of a more pressing nature, affecting our army in the
Crimea, and necessary for repairing the evils existing there.
Ho (Earl Grey) thought this perfectly fair and reasonable,
though, as he had stated before, he thought that the at-
tention of the Minister of War would have been directed
to something more useful than the measure which was now
before them ; still he had,no fault to find, and he waited
with patience for that larger measure which he had pro-
mised, and he had no doubt that lie would, in due time,
either propose it to that house, if Parliamentary interfer-
ence was necessary, or advise her Majesty to adopt it of
herself. He wished to call the attention of the house to
this circumstance. If it was only that the present con-
stitution of the military departments was uusatilactory
—if the Government stated that they intended at an
early period to bring forward some plan for putting
these departments on a more satisfactory footing, then it
appeared to him that it was highly inexpedient, while the
departments continued in their present state, that any mea-
sure of a larger character should be adopted, involving a
large expenditure which had no reference to the imme-
diate wants of the country. With regard to the expendi-
ture necessary for carrying on the war, no one objected to
her Majesty's Government, though imperfectly constituted,
proposing whatever might be necessary ; but when they
came to large and extensive plans, involving a very heavy
expenditure, plans which were not to take effect during
the present war, but had reference to the permanent wants'
of the country, the case seemed to him greatly altered ;
and regarding plans of that kind, ho could not but say that
he thought, in the present state of the departments, that
a large expenditure of that kind ought to be avoided.
It was on this account that he observed with no small
degree of alarm the votes which had been proposed in the
Ordnance estimates in the other House of Parliament,
which, of course, being public documents, lie was at
liberty to comment upon in that house. The alarm had
been increased by the manner in which, as he had beet
informed, those votes had been explained. He found that
it was proposed to take a vote of more than a million
sterling for now works. This was in addition to the sum of
560,0001. voted last year, se that altogether the increase in
the two years would amount to nearly 1,600,0001. ; and
these sums, large as they were, did not represent the whole
expense, because a very considerable nuaiber of works
which were to be undertaken would not be finished with
the grants proposed to be taken ; therefore the sum in-
volved was one of very considerable importance. They
were informed that these votes were with a view to the
permanent defence of the country —(hear, hear)—not for
providing for any particular danger in one year rather than
in another, but for enabling the country to maintain a
proper position of independence. The house would see,
therefore, that they came strictly within the works which,
in his opinion, it was inexpedient, at
.that moment, to
proceed with. It appeared further that the great bulk
of these works consisted of new barracks and new fortifica-
tions. It had been explained that it was intended to re-
move or put an end, in a great measure, to the present sys-
tem of dividing the troops into comparatively small bodies,
and to erect barracks capable of containing large numbers
of men. He entirely approved of that design. (Hear.)
It was an alteration in the present system which he had
long thought ought to be adopted. He knew it was iejet-
rious to the army to employ troops as an armed police—
(hear, hear)—to divide them into comparatively small de-
tachments. He also thought that, in point of policy, it
was highly injudicious that the preservation of the public
peace should be confided to the army. They knew that,
in the metropolis, where the police had been established
about 2G years, though we had gone through times of no
ordinary difficulty, in no one instance had it bean necessary
to employ the troops against a mob. In former times
that necessity was continually occurring ; but since the
establishment of the metropolitan police, excepts in some
few cases in which it had been thought proper to have the
troops ready to support the police, in no one instance had
it been necessaary to use a troop of dragoons to restore
order. He thought that the troops ought to be kept only
in situations where, in cases of Rations disorder, they could
be called into operation. The railways now presented such
convenience for rapidly concentrating a large body of
troops, in case of emergency, that no difficulty could arise.
But this was not the time for erecting new barracks, which
were not likely to be finished until the present war ended.
They were providing temporary barracks for 50,000 men,
and he could not help thinking that this accommodation,
in addition to that already existing, would be amply suffi-
cient to meet the immediate exigencies of the case. The
other object of the votes was to make new fortifications
for the protection of our coasts. No doubt that, in itself,
was a proper object to attend to. (Hear, bear.) No man
could doubt that it was advisable to provide against
any small expedition that might make a descent upon
our coasts ; but if we were to point out a time less
necessary than another for such works, it was the pre-
sent, because we were in strict alliance with one
of the two great maritime powers; and as to Russia,
with which we were at war, her ports were so pecu-
liarly situated, that we had the means of completely pre-
venting any attack by her. He thought, moreover, that
our experience before Sebastopol had shown bow much
might be done, in the way of defence, by mere earthworks.
At the present moment, Sebastopol was infinitely stronger
than when our operations first commenced. _He was afraid

that Russia had shown a superiority to ourselves in many
points of military organisation. He could not deny that she
had not only a much larger army, but that it seemed that
that army was better managed, and better handled, in
proportion to its size, than our own ; and that, with all
our wealth and progress in civilisation, we had reason to
blush at the manner„in which we had been outstripped by
comparatively barbarian forces. He believed that if au exi-
gency arose, in a few days, nay in a few hours, the hands
which executed our great railways would be able to put our
maritime towns in such a state of defence, and raise up
earthworks of such a character as would make the works
at Sebastopol appear a mere joke. On these grounds then,
he maintained that these works were not urgently neces-
sary, and not being so, the argument which he submitted
was this, that it was injudicious to proceed with them in a
time of war, when the several departments of the Govern.
ment were necessarily occupied in making arrangements
for the active prosecution of the great war in which this
country was engaged. At such a time as this it was ut-
terly impossible that a great plan for the re-distribution of
the troops in peace, and for fortifying the coasts, could bo
considered with that deliberation and care which ought to
be employed. There were a great many questions to be set-
tled, not only as to the most convenient places in which
accommodation could be provided for the troops, but as
to the science of fortification. Present experience had
proved that it would not do to follow the beaten tracks
without carefully inquiring what alterations on former
plans ought to be suggested by the progress of modern
science and modern inventions. •He would say, therefore,
that even if these subjects had been properly con-
sidered by the authorities, it was not during war that they
could be satisfactorily dealt with. The Government had
determined to remodel the civil departments of the army.
They had undertaken to do so in accordance with general
opinion from one end of the country to the other ; for it
was evident that under the existing organisation those
departments had net been well conducted, and that there
had been a want of judgment both in employing the money
which had been voted by Parliament from time to time in
keeping up those services which were to be employed in war
and also in the application of those grants since the war,
broke out. He believed that a great part of the mismanage-
ment was particularly due to the Ordnance department.
He had no hesitation in saying that from what he knew of
the manner in which that department had been conducted,
under every successive Administration, during the peace up
to the present time, and that, more especially with re-
ference to the manner in which the grants during the 40
years of peace had been expended, there were the greatest
grounds for mistrust. With regard to the fortifica-
tions, it would ill become him, a non-professional man, to
express an opinion as to the works of that kind which had
been undertaken. But this he knew, that with respect to
many works which had been undertaken, be found a ge-
neral concurrence of opinion among men of science, that
those works had been injudiciously planned, and expen-
sively executed. He knew that some of the mistakes
pointed out had been the subject of derision to many fo-
reign engineer:, and which a non-professional man could
easily perceive, when pointed out to him, though not
able himself to discover them. He would mention one
case which had been pointed out to him some time ago.
He was looking at one of the new forts for tie protection
of Plymouth. Looking to the inner mound, with its
large number of guns, it seemed to him to be a place of
great strength; but a gentleman pointed out to him that,
though the battery looked very well, it bad been the re -
mark of a foreign engineer, that it was a "regular shell
trap." It was placed immediately at the foot of a preci-
pice of rock, so that every shot or shell, fired at that bat-
tery must strike it, or break down fragments of the
rock, and in a few minutes kill every man in the battery.
That was a battery erected within the last few years, and
in other works similar errors were to be detected. Then
they came to the case of the barracks. With regard to them,
every man might form an opinion, more so than iu the
("age of fortifications. He found that the Cambridge bar-
racks were to be built at an expense of something more
than :V ,000/., to accommodate 500 men and 44 horses,
which was at the rate of about 701. per head, while r- two
or three-roomed cottage could be built for that sum—(hear,
hear) —and would certainly provide better accommodation
for six men than was given to the soldiers in the barracks.
He found at Shoeburyness accommodation was to be pro-
vided for field officers at an expense of not less than 1,200/.
per man. A good farm house, for a whole family, could
be built for about SOO/., or 52 per cent. less than a single
field officer's accommodation. But the accommodation
for our troops was both indifferent and costly. This
being so, was it expedient that we should incur further
expenses nutil the matter could be considered by authori-
ties competent to form ajudgment ? At time present time no
confidence could be placed in the departments. There was
no Master-General of the Ordnance. The Minister of War
had said that all the various offices should be brought
under his own eogilizance and control. The question was,
who was respousible ? Surely the war in which we were
now engaged was a sufficient load ; yet he war told it
would be necessary to add to the present weight upon the
public resources a sum not less than from 15,000,000/ to
20,000,0001. for the expenses of the current year. If the
wants of the country were as large as lie believed them to
be, he thought they would be able to meet them ; but he
believed that, in public as in private life, borrowed money
was apt to be unwisely expended. He thought the esti-
mates laid before Parliament were characterised by reck-
lessness. Ho did not grudge anything necessary to early
on the war vigorously, but he thought we were throwing
away money by thousands—nay, by hundreds of thou-
sands of pounds—unnecessarily. (Hear.) Ho thought
it was the fault of the Government to act too much upon