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alrr consideration.where the moral character and best
interests of the country were at stake? Therefore, I
so far as he could see, there was nothing either unjust
or unprecedented in the Bilk- He should not feel
the least objection to the House retracing its steps
it' such a course could contribute to the advantage
of the accuse and the ends of public justice, but
to such an argument he could not give his assent.
If the questions proposed by the Noble Earl were
intended solely to obtain the opinion of the Judges
on the point, he should not object to them; but if
their object was to effect a susoension of the pro-
reislidgs, he should decidedly oppose them, cornti-
tiering that delay was calculated to produce great
',oldie injury.
The Marquis of Lawsnowi begged leave to
state li's reasons for acquiescing in the course re.
comae.' 401 by his Noble Friend, Earl Grey.
With wet to the general nature of the pro-
reeding recommended by Ministers, he could not
go the length of affirming, though he knew
many' persons in and out of the House :Anneal,
that in no case whatever should 8116 of Pains
anti Penalto., be introduced into or attempt.
rd to be passed through Parliament. With all
the inconveniencies and hardships attaching to
such messures, the extent of which he was as well
aware of as any of them, he felt conscientiously
that the House could not lady give up the
power of notrodiming such Bills; that in so
doing they neglit give up a privilege which
in eventful times might he made the founds-
lion of the safely of the State. It was • power
which he felt it his duty to defend mod preserve
convinced that in some conjunctures it might be
directed to the preservation of the country ;
but it was for their Lordships to consider the
grounds upon which such Bills were recom-
mended for their adoption. and be should ask. if
that which had been proposed to induce their
Lordships to entertain the present Bill had not been
the allegstion of the Noble Earl opposite (Lord
Liveipool), that no other means whatever existed,
from the peculiar circumstances of the case, of
briogiov, iota • course of judicial examination and
suitable punishment the crime which was said to
bare been committed ? On the establishment of
that ground only could their Lordships be in-
duced to assent to the passing of the Bill on
the table. He bad besore protested against cer-
tain preparatory steps, which, he feared, had ope-
rated extensively throughout the country to the
prejlidice of the proceeding; but he had felt it his
platy to say that be would listen to the grounds
nit which the Noble Lords opposite asserted they
could maintain the meastve, since Parliament was
driven to such • necessity. Now Parliament was
in this situation, that the Bill having been laid
on the table, and fixed for the second reading
this thy. they were called on to comply with
an order of a former day to that effect. The
question proposed by his Noble Friend tended
to enable the House to form an opinion for them-
selves, whether the Bill of P.iiiis and Penalties in-
troduced, was the only possible mode of investigat-
ing the offence, and satisfying public justice. His
Noble Friend asked the Noble Earl to suspend
tile proceeding until the opinion of the Judges, whe-
ther there was any other within their power should
he obtained. Until that opinion was obtained,
their Lordships were not in possession of the
knowledge whether they ought. consistently with
their duty, !proceed its the mode which hat been
originated, or whether there was any other 'sorbet-
ter one. Ile allowed there was some inconveniency
in suspending the proceedings, but how much
greater was that likely to result to the public
from persevering in • course, which on all
hands was admitted to be objectionable.—(Hear/
and which the Noble Earl (Liverpool) himself ad-
mitted to be justified only by the necessity of the
case. He said that much less inconvenience would
follow from the suspension of proceedings which
their Lordships might thereafter have cause to
think improper, bocouse unnecessary, should
such be die inference. from taking the opinions
of the Judges, the whole blame and responsi-
bility must rest with the authors of the 8011. In
the event of the Judges being of opinion that any
other course of 'proceeding was possible, the !louse
would be obliged to adopt that course without any
delay. On the probability of such an event lie
could not presume to offer any opinion of his own
to the House, but he felt himself called oil to
say, that legal authorities, which were among the
highest in the country—authorities which, if he
should name, the Noble Lord on the Woolsack
would receive with the utmost respect, had not
only expressed a doubt, but even denied the sound-
ness of the doctrine laid down by Judge Forster.
Should the validity of that doctrine be allowed by
the Judges, the House would be compelled to gip
into the Bill, subject to all the inconveniences with
which it was attended. But the moment it would
appear, if it should. that the inquiry night be put
into a shape more reconcilable with the principles
and founts of the law of this country, then the
country would be delivered from the cruel necessil
of conducting an investigotion affecting 1111 l e-
diately the character of the Queen. and perhaps
the succession to the throne of the realm, on prin-
ciples, and in a mode, which every one 4 f their
Lordships. even those who had originated it. ad-
mitted to be unusual and severe. This being the
first day that their Lordships had the benefit of the
attendance of the Judges and the Attorney-Gene-
ral, it was the first also on which they had an op-
portunity of funning an opinion on that question,
on which they should all be obliged to give en
'pillion at some time or other, viz. whether there
was any other male of proceeding against her
Majesty but by a Bill of Pains sod Penalties.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL and Earl Gitev seve-

rally explained.
The Earl of CARNARVON raid, that hiving but
little expectation of inducing the Home to abandon
Ow Bill, he was perfectly- ready to concur in any
',l'44eiiirm which held out a chance of putting an
end to that in which he saw nothing but pure and
unittialified evil. It had been said that it was then
too late to retrace their steps, because the charge
had been made • but be (Earl of Caniarvon) contend-
ed that the charge had been inside from the very
commencement of the proceedings; and he had
never beard a doctrine more strange titan that that
Ilume was compelled to proceed with such a mea-
sure from the moment that Ministers might think
proper to prom:ire it. There was so distinct and
unqualified ch age of adultery in the DIU front

,

beginning to end and was the hoarse to go into the
discussion of it, and the examination of evidence
in support of it, to elicit proof of a crime which
was no where alleged in it
Earl Gate thooght that the Bill was liable to
many objections in point of form, but he conceived
that adultery was distinctly charged therein, and
he had said that nothing should induce him to vote
fur its second, reading but a clear proof of that
charge. •
Earl GREY'S motion was then put and carried
without opposition, and the Jodgea immediately re-
tired to deliberate. During their absence—
The Earl of Livsapoot. suggested the expe-
diency of adopting on future mornings *rime more
speedy mode of ascertaining what Lords were pre-
sent, than by calling over all the names, which had
consumed three quarters of an hour, or an hour.
His recommended that every Peer on
coining into the House, should write doan his name
and the hour at which he ent-red, and deliver the
same to the Clerk, and that the names not written
and delivered in should he taken id be absent ; and
after s short conversation with Lord 1-lot.t.aan,
submitted a motion that effect; but it was not put
front the Chair, and we undetatood it was with-
drawn.

The Judges having been absent about twenty
minutes, istotrued to the House.
CillEY JUSTICE ABBOTT said, that the (louse
had referred to his Learned Brothers to consider—
" lithe wife of the lleir Apparent of the realm.
be violated by a foreigner not owing allegiance to
the King, she consenting to such violitioo, whether
she was guilty of high treason wilhin the true con-
struction of the statute of 25th Edward 111. ?" and
they were all of opinion that she did not thereby
commit high treason.
Their opinion in this case was grounded on the
lauguage of the statute, which raid, that if a man
do violate the wife of the King's eldest son he was
guilty of high treason. Unless therefore a mail
could legally be charged by au indictment with
high treason, which indictu►-nt must be in that
as in all other cases, that the crime wos committed
against the twin's duty to the Crown, the wife con•
sequently could not be charged as accessary to that
offence. As a foreigner, not owing allegiance to
the Crown, was not bound by the local laws of
England, he could not be charged with commit-
ting that crime.
lt was then ordered that the Counsel be called in.

The Marquis of LANSDOWN said, that before the
Counsel were called in there was one circumstance
which he did not wish should be paused over in si-
lence. He understood that among the Counsel who
were to appear before them th-re were no I, ss than
five Members of the other House of Pailianielit. It
appeared by the Votes of the other House, that
those Learned Gentlemen were permitted to attend
at their Lordships' bar. He by no means wished
to oppose that step ; onn the contrary, lie had no
doubt there were very good and suffi•ient reasons for
allowing those Gentlemen to apneas. There were
certainly strong reasons why the Queen should Hot be
deprived of the legal assistance of particular pereous,
nor the Crown of the assistance of the Attorney
and Solicitor-General ; but still he thought the pri-
vilege was not to be allowed without a protest against
its being drawn into general practice, &any general
practice could be found on that anomalous pro-
ceeding. Feeling, as_ he did, that measures of a
judicial character might hereafter be taken in
the other House of Parliament, lie was anxious that
to the many necessary and unavoidable anomalies
which were inseparable from this proceetliog,this ano-
maly, at least, should not he added, that individuals
who were Members of iheother I louse of Parliament,
should be allowed to act as advocates in this. He
had the honour of knowing some of the individuals
who were placed in this situation, and he enter-
tained not the slightest doubt that they would
acquit themsilves with the utmost delicacy and
propriety, under the peculiar circumstances in
which they found themselves placed. It was not
with a view to this particular case, but upon gene-
ral 'principles of expediency, that lie had made
these observations ; and be confessed lie saw no oilier
means by which the individuals to whom he alluded
could avoid the inconsistency of acting as advocates
at the bar of their Lordships' House, in a case upon
which they might aftepwarda be called upon to de-
cide judicially, than by withdrawing themselves
from the body to which they stow belonged.
The LORD CHANCELLOR having put the quer-
tinu, heftier it was their Lordships' pleasure that
her Majesty's Counsel should be called in, it was
carried in the affirmative. •

The Counsel were then ordered to be calle.l in,
anti Mr. Bsoughain, Mr. Dolmas', Dr. Luskin...
ton, Mr. Williams, Mr. Wykle, sad Mr. Tindal
appeared as I,er Majesty's Counsel, follosed
the Attorney-General, the SulieVor-Gener sl, Dr.
Adams. Mr. Park, and another Learned Gentle-
man, whose person we did slot recognise.
The Duke of lismil.Tou rose so ask by whose
order the Attorney• General appeared ?
The Attorney-General said, that ass order of their
Lordshivs having beers served on him, by which it
appeared that Counsel were to be permitted to be
heard at the bor of their Lordships' House in sup-
port of the Bill, he had considered it his duty
either to attend in person, or appoint some other
Learned Gentleman, to support the Bill and
eill the evidence.

The Duke of HAMILTON said, the Learned
Grimeman had not stated by whion he was ordered
to attend. or front what person lie had received his
instructions.
The Atturney.General repented his fortn.r state.
ment, and in addition said; that as witiieleies were
to be obtained, lie had thought it his duty to obtain
information front every source which he could, anti
amongst others he applied at the Secretary of
Stata's office for the Home Department, amid from
the information obtained there, lie lead obtain-
ed other sod further information on which he had
acted.
The Duke of HAMILTON said, that he supposed
lie was to undurs'attil that it was the Secretary of
S
tate by whom the Learned Gentleman wasin-
structed.
Lord Holdum said, that the Leaned Gentle-
man approved to hive received his information only
from the Secretary of State ; but by whom in-
structed did not appear.
The Earl of Lovearoot said, that the order of
that House having been served on the Attoiney-
General, he wits bound either to appear himelf, or

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