The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-16 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
ROYAL COMMISSION.
Tho Royal assent was given by commission to the fol-
lowing bills :—Newspaper Stamp ; Sewers House Drain-
age ; Registration of Births (Scotland) ; Ecclesiastical
Property (Ireland) ; Brighton Incorporation ; Validity of
Proceedings (House of Commons) ; Newport Corporation ;
Kingston-upon-Thames Improvement ; Swansea Dock ;
Cornwall Railway • Dundee, Perth, and Aberdare Rail-
way ; Banff, Macduff, and Turriff Railway ; Swansea
Vale Railway ; Bristol and Exeter Railway ; Hyde Gas
(No. 3) ; Inverury and Old Meldrum Railway ; Liver-
pool Corporation ; Leominster and Ledbury Road ;
Salisbury and Yeovil Railway ; Llynvi Valley and
Bridgend Railway ; Commercial Road ; Kingston-
upon-Hull, Heple, and Ferriby Road ; Abingdon
Railway ; Plymouth Great Western Docks ;
Oldham Gas and Water ; Madras Railway ;
Birmingham Gas ; Hartlepool Gas and Water ; Kelso
Bridge ; St. George's Harbour Act Amendment ; Over
Darwen Gas ; -Ulster Railway ; Londonderry Improve-
ment; Kilmarnock Gas ; Lancaster Water and Gas ;
Ashton-under-Lyne Water ; Nottingham and Lough-
borough Railway ; Manchester Improvement; Ren-
frew Police Improvement.
The Lords' commissioners were the Lord Chancellor,
the Earl of Harrowby, and the Duke of Argyll.
Their lordships met at half-past ten this morning,
when the Validity of Proceedings (House of Commons)
Bill was passed through all its stages, and received
amongst others the Royal assent, which was subsequently
given by commission.
SECOND READINGS.
The following bills were read a second time :
Charlbury Road ; Royal London Militia ; Dundalk and
Black Rock Railway ; East of Abergavenny Estate.
THIRD READINGS.
The Waterford and Limerick Railway ; St. Helen's
Improvement ; Coomford and High Peak Railway ;
Limerick and Castleconnell Railway ; and the Newcas-
tle-under-Lyne Gas Bills were severally read a third
time and passed.
Lord BROUGHAM presented petitions against the
sale of intoxicating liquors on the Sunday.
GOVERNMENT OFFICES.
Lord REDESDALE called attention to the return
of all houses, buildings, &c., hired for official, purposes
laid before the house on the sth inst. The
noble lord said that the annual rental for
public offices was about 22,0001. It was, hoWever,
quite evident that great economy might be effected if
they had in one huge official building all those public
offices concentrated. He believed Government was about
to bring in a bill to enable them to purchase Downing-
street and the buildings adjoining. He could not, however,
understand how this return was made out, and he wished
further information upon the several parts. The noble
lord having asked a question in respect of this return,
proceeded to urge upon the Government the importance
of considering certain details in respect to the purchase
of the property required for the public buildings.
Earl GRANVILLE, in reply, said that there were
many difficulties in the way of carrying out the
object which the Government had in view. A
bill had already been introduced into the other
house to enable the Government to purchase por-
tions of land in the neighbourhood of Downing-
street and Fludyer-street. The Committee that had met
upon the subject had recommended that the whole of
Downing-street and a portion of Fludyer-street should
be bought by the Government. They also recommended
that a portion of St. James's-park should be taken for
the purpose of the building. The Government, how-
ever, did not think it advisable to advise her Majesty to
assent to the latter recommendation, deeming it better
to extend the ground in the neighbourhood of Flnyder-
street rather than to encroach upon the park. (Rear )
Plans had been laid before the Government, but the
precise plan had not yet been decided upon. In this re-
spect the noble lord had shown himself to be an adinini,
strative reformer, and he seemed to have the advantage
over several others, as he appeared to have a tangible
mode of carrying out his object. •
The Earl of HAR,DWICKE was understood to say
that if the whole of the offices connected with the Ad-
miralty were concentrated within Somerset-house, he
thought it would be a great advantage to the service.
The Earl of MALM ESEURY asked whether it was
true that an offer had been wade to build the whole of the
public offices ? •
Earl GRANVILLE said it was true that such an
offer had been made, but the Government declined the
offer, thinking that, with the facilities of borrcwing
money at a small rate of interest, they could build the
public offices much inure economically.
After a short conversation the subject dropped.
RELIGIOUS WORSHIP BILL.
The Earl of SHA.FTESBURY 'nevelt the recommit-
meet of the Religious Worship Ball, for the purpose of
making an amendment, to the effect that nothing con-
tained in the act should prejudice or affect the discipline
of the Church, or the enforcement thereof by the bishop
or other ecclesiastical authority.
The Earl of DERBY thought that their lordships
should not abolish the law, and sweep away all rei-Aric-
tions whatever, in the summary mode proposed by the
bill ; they ought first to inquire into its practical work-
ing, ascertain the evil it actually produced, a-ad the good
it really prevented, He was not prepared to sanction
the doctrine that every man in the Church of England
was entitled to take on himself those functions, which
divine authority in the first instance, and legal sanction
afterwards, had placed in the hands of men specially set
apart for the purpose. No doubt in populous parishes
it was desirable that the clergy should have the
assistance of pious laymen in the discharge of their
charitable and religions duties. But, then, he thought
that the laymen thus co-operating should be assistants,
and not set-up rivals of the clergy, acting without the
authority of the bishop or of the clergyman of the parish.
Take away all zestrictions on this head,
-and he believed
the effect, especially in the present unfortunate state of
the Church, would be to introduce the elements of dis-
cord into the small country parishes, where happily
there was now free and intimate communication between
the clergyman and his parishioners. The noble earl con-
cluded by moving " that a select committee be appointed
to inquire into the existing state of the law with regard
to the liberty of religious worship, and the expediency of
relaxing or dispensing with the provisions of an act
passed in the first year of King William and Queen Mary,
cap. 18."
Earl GRANVILLE did not think that the repeal of
the present law would have the slightest effect upon the
Church of England, while he was convinced that it was
a serious evil to retain on the statute-book a law which
could not be enforced. and which was habitually violated
by the most respectable and religious persons.
Lord CONGLETON briefly supported the bill.
The Bishop of OXFORD did not wish to prevent any
'meetings for religious worship. All he desired was, that
time persons conducting them should be obliged simply to
soy whether they conducted them in opposition to or in
co mmunion with the Established Church.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY protested that he had
been most unjustly charged with a design of superseding
the parochial clergy, and giving to laymen the powers
(wf executing Ministerial functions, and that there. was
not a word in the bill which could lend countenance to
this charge. It was simply and solely to give power to
the Nonconformists, and to the laity of the Church of
-.England, to meet in greater numbers than 20 in the
household of any person under whose roof they were
permitted to meet.
Their lordships then divided. The numbers were—
For the amendment 47
Against it 3O
Majority for the amendment —l7
Their lordships shortly afterwards adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-(YESTERDAY.)

The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.

The Hedon and Hull, &c., Road Bill, and the Shrews-
bury Improvement Bill were considered and ordered to
l)e read a third time.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.

Mr. PULMAN, Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod,
Imre appeared at the bar, and summoned the house to
the House of Lords to hear the Royal assent given to
various bills, for which see our Lords' report.
PETITIONS.

Petitions were presented by Mr. Duncan, from a place
in Scotland, against the Maynooth grant ; by Mr. Kirk,
from Newry, for vote by ballot ; by Mr. Pellatt, two pe-
t i tions from Bermondsey against the Sunday Trading Bill ;
ivy Mr. Hadfield, from Derbyshire, in favour of closing
pmblic-houses on Sundays, also petitions against money
grants for educational purposes as regarded sects ;
by Mr. Duncombe, two petitions from Finsbury,
in favour of administrative reform ; by Mr. Col-
-1 tier, from Plymouth, against the sale of intoxicat-
ing drinks on Sunday ; by Mr. Bright, from the
Chamber of Commerce, Manchester, against the Limited
Liability of Partnership Bill.
THAMES MARSH DRAINAGE.
On the motion of Mr. M. SMITH, a return, in detail,
or the expenses included under the sum of 5951. 19s. 2d.,
specting the Thames Marsh drainage, paid to Mr. T.
'. Rammell, C.E., and charged in the Civil Cantin-
g. ncies Account for 1854, and copy of the instructions
ua ider which Mr. Rammell acted, were ordered.
CRIMINAL LAW, &c. BILL.
On the motion of Mr. L. KING returns of all fees or
ills olume_nty allotted or paid for drafting or settling any : relating to the criminal law, since the payment
.Di 49,7151. to the late Criminal Law Commission (in
mtinuation of Parliamentary paper, No. 210, of se,sion
1855) ; of the number and nature of such bills, and of the
r,ames and respective remuneration
stsof of the draftsmen of
Co
inch bills • and, of the drawing the Bribery
FOI and dontroverted Blectionsßdi of 1854, the name
names of the draftsmen, the fund Out of which they
/.are paid, and the sum received by each.
SEPOY TROOPS FOII.
VICTORIA.
RUSSELL said he had not heard if
In answer to Mr. G. -DmsnAs,
or J.
troops bad been sent, or were aboutantl
d
; y pLoor
I cue sent, to the col•aly of Victoria.
THE ORDNANCE.
Colonel DUNNE asked the Clerk of the ced„anc„
whether -he wenld (before the next reading of the Ord.
trance Board Bill) lay on the table of the house a state-
ment of the changes which the Government intended t,
make in that depai tment ; the offices which it. w a i intendec
should be abolis4d, and those which it was propos&
‘lubstitute ; together with the amount
,uch new offices, and an estimate of
)nsequent on the proposed changes.
said he would refer his hon. and
order in Council of the 4th June,
the house, which would explain the

R JAMES BROOKE.
)ND asked the First Lord of the Trea-
,ort of the commissioners, respecting

Sir James Brooke, had not yet been presented ; whe-
ther the commissioners had made a reference to the Go-
vernment, which was the cause of the delay ; and, if so,
what was the nature of that reference ?
Lord PALMERSTON said he had reason to believe
the report had been received, and he should answer the
question on Monday.
COLONIAL GRANTS OF LANDS TO FOREIGN
LEGIONS.

Lord NAAS asked whether the Governor-General of
Canada had been requested by the Government to make
an application to the Colonial Legislature for a grant of
°nonillion acres land, to enable her Majesty to offer settle-
ments to such of her Majesty's Foreign Legionaries as
may be willing to settle in Canada ; and, if so, whether
it was the intention of the Government to offer similar
settlements to the officers and soldiers of her Majesty's
regular army ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said a despatch had been laid
from the Governor-General before the Colonial Legis-
lature, but they had prorogued without discussing it.
THE ENNISKILLEN DRAGOONS.
Mr. 0. STANLEY gave notice that he should take
an early opportunity of bringing the "practical joking"
among the officers of the above regiment at Canterbury
before the house.

FREEDOM OF THE PRESS AT GIBRALTAR.
Mr. BRIGHT called the attention of the noble lord
the Secretary to the Colonies to an ordinance recently
issued by Sir R. Gardner, the Governor of Gibraltar, re-
stricting the publication of a newspaper to that garrison.
He wished to ask whether the noble lord would send out
an order to cancel that decree and place the position
of the press at Gibraltar upon a more proper footing ?
He had in his pocket now a memorial from a printer at
Gibraltar to the noble lord, but which he had not yet
had an opportunity of presenting, stating that his busi-
ness had been destroyed by that ordinance. (Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said since he last addressed the
house on this subject he had had time to examine the
ordinance in question, and he must now state that Sir
R. Gardner was competent to issue such an ordinance
on his own authority. There was, however, a certain re-
striction upon his general power of issuing such ordinances,
viz., that they should be published a month before they were
in force. He conceived it would not be right to take away
that power from the Governor of a garrison like Gibraltar
to prohibit the publication of a newspaper giving an account
of the state of the garrison, the weak points of the place,
the amount of ammunition, the number of guns, and
where the powder magazines were placed. He should say
that the governor in such a case was not only justified, but
was bound in duty to stop such a publication. (Hear.)
With regard to the discretion exercised by the governor,
in the present instance, it did appear to him (Lord John
Russell) that there was a necessity for issuing this pro-
hibitory ordinance. (Hear, hear.)
In reply to a further question from Mr. BRIGHT,
Lord J. RUSSELL said ke could not give any dis-
tinct assurance that he should send out an order to can-
cel the ordinance in question. (Hear.)
STIPULATIONS RESPECTING TERMS OF PEACE.
Mr. OTWAY—I rise to ask the noble lord at the head
of the Government the question of which I have given no-
tice and though I am anxious not to delay the interesting
discussion about to take place, still, after having formally
given notice of my question, feel bound to ask it. The
noble viscount has stated in the house that in February
last certain right hon. gentlemen who were lately eminent
members of his Government, stipulated as, to' the condi-
tions of peace, and more especially as to one which should
be asked of Russia. I should be trifling with the house to
suppose that those stipulations could have been made with
any other view than that of favouring Russia, for those
who have had the pain of listening to the speeches of the
right hon. members for Carlisle and the University of Ox-
ford must be aware that any stipulations as to the condi•
tion3 of peace made by them could have had no other ob-
ject thau that of being favourable to our enemy.
Mr. GL &DST° YE—Sir, I rise to order. (Hear.) You
have heard the language which has fallen from the hon.
member. He has stated that nothing stated or stipulated
by my right hon. friend or myself with reference to the
terms of peace could have had any object hut that of being
favourable to our enemy. I put it to you whether that
language is such as falls within the rules of discussion in
this house? (Hear.)
The SPEAKELL—It is not within the rules—(hear,
hear)—fur it is attributing to hon. members that which is
traitorous.
Mr. OT WAY—I regret very much, Sir, that anything I
have said could be thought to impute such conduct as ycu
have described to the right lion. gentleman, for nothing was
farther from my intention thr.,n to say that the right hon.
members had been guilty of treason. I conceived that the

tenour of their speeches must have led all hon. members to
suppose that any stipulations madeby them could be viewed
in no other light than that of their being favourable to
Russia. I think it must be conceded that that was their
intention, from the remarks which have fallen from the
noble viscount; and that being the case, it cannot bat be
thought that the noble viscount considered them proper
conditions, for the noble viscount and the right hon. gen-
tle.rnen were sitting for neat ly two years in the same Cabinet, !
and were fully cognisant of each other's views •as to the
terms and conditions of peace. I think this a grave matter
for consideration, and it is a sorry proof of the harmony
wrdch was said to have existed in the Government of the
noble lord ; and if these right hon. gentlemen had so little
confidence in their chief I think it would have been far
better if they had not joined his Government. In the struggle
in which we are engaged we have allies, and I should like to
know whether they were made aware of the stipulations of
the right hon. gentlemen? Supposing that the conditions
referred to Sebastopol—and I think it not unlikely that they
1 did—what could be more natural than to suppose that our
allies, deeming the rebuilding or destructiOn of that fortress
most important, should be desirous of imposing certain
conditions with reference to this fortress, concerning
which the right hon. gentlemen msy have stipulated with
the noble lord. The same remarks will apply to
Bomargund, and I ask if our allies were not made aware
of the stipulations of the right her. gentlemen, what be-
comes of our alliance? There are many other considera-
tions which call for positive inquiry into these proceed-
ings,' with reference to which I consider the noble lord's
conduct was neither statesmanlike nor patriotic. There
are further considerations connected with the subject with
which I will not trouble the house, for the right hon. gen-
lemen have seceded from the Government of the noble
lord, and the fatal influence which they exercised with re-
gard to the conduct of the war no longer paralyses his ac-
tions. I will ask the noble viscount—and I do it in no
spirit of hostility, but because I think that, after the
statement he has made, it is due to the house to have a
clear and intelligible reply on this subject; and because I
think the conditions which we are to demand should he
qualified by the successes of war—whether he is bound by
the stipulations of February last, and whether he is pre-
pared to counsel his Sovereign and our somewhat forgotten
allies to offer such terms as he considers will prevent the
aggression of Russia for the future, and secure a safe and
honourable peace? (Hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—However natural may be the
desire of the hon. member to have a full explanation in
this matter, I am sure—at least I am confident— that the
house will concur with me in thinking that it would be ex-
ceedingly unbecoming in me to enter fully into this ques-
tion. (Hear.) All I shall state is this—and I trust it will
be sufficient for the hon. member and the house. My right
hon. friends who have lately ceased to be members of my
Government, when they were considering proposals made
by me that they should join my Government, very natu-
rally and very properly desired to come to a clear under-
standing with me as to any point of difference of opinion
which they thought might afterwards arise, and I think in
so doing they did that which was due to themselves and
to me. (Hear, hear.) There was one point on which
they required information, and that was whether it was
the intention of the Government then forming to make
a sine qua non of peace. I stated, by the mutual friend

w_
through whom the communication as made, that the
demand was not one of those which the Government was at

that time entitled to make a sine qua non of peace, and that
it was not my intention to propose it as such. It has been
declared in repeated communications made by this Govern-
ment, and that of France and of Austria, and by them to
Russia, that the conditions of peace would depend on the
events of the war; and that which may at one time have
been a condition which the couttry was not entitled to
make, yet under altered circumstances may become so. I
hope that the house will consider what I have said in reply
to the hon. member to be suffit:ient, and will agree with
me in thinking that I ought not to go into details on this
subject. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI—It is, no doubt, of the utmost import-
ance that there should be a complete understanding between
the members of a Government. The house has no right to
ask for more than a general exposition of the main princi-
ple on which a government is formed. It has no right to
inquire into all the conditions which may have taken place
between the several members of the Government. But
when in a debate of the magnitude of that which has
taken place the members of the Government specifically
referred to a particular stipulation and condition assented
to by the noble lord who remains at the head of the Go-
vernment, her Majesty's Ministers must not be surprised
at such a question as that asked by the hon. member. It
is perfectly legitimate, Parliamentary, and constitutional,
and her Majesty's Ministers must have expected an inquiry
would be made after the specific allusion made by them to
these stipulations. (Hear, hear.) I should not have risen,
but I thought the tone of the noble lord's reply implied
that the inquiry was improper; bnt, as I have said, after
what has taken place, he must have expected that such an
inquiry would be made.
Mr. GLADSTONE—Sir, I should not have risen to
claim your protection against the language used by the
hon. member—language which I do not think he has
abandoned, as he might have done—had I not felt justified
in so doing. I agree, however, with what has fallen from
the right hon. member (Mr. Disraeli), and do not think
that the slightest blame is to be attributed to the hon.
member for making this inquiry. I feel a good deal em-
barrassed both by the question and the subject it has re-
ference to ; for it appears to me, in a question of this kind,
one of two courses ought to be pursued. The House of
Commons ought either to know nothing or everything.
For my part, as far as my personal and strong inclination
and earnest desire go, I wish that my noble friend, if ho
felt it consistent with his public duty, after having made
reference to this subject, could have felt himself at liberty
to proceed, and have laid before the house all the informa-
tion in his power ; for I am certain that the effect of these
partial references with information jealously and stintedly
given—going up to a certain point and then stopped short
by the plea of official reserve—cannot but be mischievous
to all the parties concerned. (Hear, hear.) lam not in a
condition to press for the information beyond express-
ing my personal inclination and desire that it should
be given, but the public interest must rule all the de-
cisions in questions of this character. With regard to
myself—and I do not presume to speak for any one but my-
self—but for myself I beg leave to say that I am not aware
that I have at any time, either directly or indirectly, by
myself or through others, put a question to my noble friend
with reference to the anticipated conditions of treaty with
Russia, for this reason—l was not aware that any dif-
ference of opinion existed between us as to those condi-
tions, or that any such difficulty would arile. Iu thus
speaking for myself, and not admitting that I was a party
to any question of the kind, I do not wish to be understood
,s waking any assertion on behalf of my right lion friend
the member fur CaTlislo ; it is for my right hon. friend
himself to state, if he thinks fit, the part which he took.
,
far
as I ant concerned, no communication to which Ivas
a opra party had
conditiond refoefr,e,neaceca wtoiatnh Russia.yparticular
hopestipulation,
have
tterm,explicitly
re, et
stated
d mp
position
town
iinnewilnihnich atiotnhisio,ut I
ehsetio.hnoustsaends
house. I.
I sincerely wish, especially
s, where
nothing in the world passed baetcwaesee like
n
the
friend except what was perfectly noble
o
rd
and my right hon.frank,
6traiglitforward, and honourable upon all. sides, that, after

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