The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-23 00:00:00

cure proper ships of war to convey them ; and that he
had asked him (Mr. L.), knowing him to be connected
with the ,shipping interest, whetliet he thought there could
be so great a deficiency of shipping fur the purpose re-
quired ; and, if so, whether he could' suggest some means
of tueeting this difficulty. New his (Sri Do Lacy Evans)
only interference in the transaction was his observation
that he had hoard, from what he considered to be good au-
thority, that the Government had purchased 2,000 or 3,000
horses for the cavalry, but that, a considerable delay had
occurred in transporting them to the Crimea. He had fur-
ther said he had heard from a certain quarter that sufficient
shipping could not be procured for their conveyance. He
then naturally inquired from the hon. member, knowing
him to be a good authority on the subject, whether there was
really such a Scarcity of shipping in the market. He took
no further share in the controversy. He admitted that he
did certainly incline to the opinion that the horses were
kept longer there than they ought to be. He did not think_
that it was good economy to keep the horses there so long,
even though the proprietors of ships demanded higher
prices than they ought. He had then a letter in his pocket
from an officer in the Crimea, not at all referring to this
controversy, but expressing the deepest regret that the
cavalry horses had not arrived out sooner in the Crimea.
That was all he knew of the casa. (Hear.)
Admiral BERKELEY said, after what had taken place
be would not—though he could mention other 'matters—
add one word to what had fallen from his right hon. friend.
He, however, begged of the hon. member to be more cau-
tious in future in making allegations against an absent man
who was not there to defend himself, and under whom the
transport service was conducted at that time. When the
hon. gentleman made a statement in regard to thelateFirst
Lord of the Admiralty, and against himself as being one of
his advisers, which was not in accordance with fact, it was
natural that he (the gallant admiral) should feel extremely
indignant at such reports. He fe t, however, that he had
given expression to some strong language on the occasion ;
he regretted having done so. At the same time ho thought
that the case fullyjustified it.
Mr. LINDSAY said he understood that, notwithstand-
ing the report of the inspector Lieut. Wentworth, a troop-
ship was sent to sea within one hour of the time when the
last of her cargo was placed on board.
Lord ELCHO asked the Secretary of the Treasury,
whether it is his intention, before moving the increased
grant of 10,0001. for the National Gallery, to lay upon the
table of the house any information ar regarded the new
pointments of director, keeper, and secretary, travelling
agent, and accountant ; and also,, whether any Treasury
minute, establishing and regulating the constitution of the
gallery, had been prepared and will be made public previous
to the vote being taken ?
Mr. WILSON said before the committee was called upon
to decide upon the vote referred to, a paper upon the subject
would be laid before the house, which, would state, not
only the responsibilities of each officer, but also the
grounds for the appointment of them.
Colonel NORTH, in reference to the subject lately under
discussion, referred to the case of a troop ship being sent
out to the East without the proper conveniences, and ex-
pressed a hope that the Government would always claim
the right of inspecting all such vessels, with a view to the
comfort and safety of the troops on board. It was stated
that the troopship in question went to sea without
buckets or fire-engines, or boats.
NEWS FROM THE CRIMEA.

Mr. CRAUFURD wished to ask the Government for
some further information in relation to the unfortunate in-
telligence which appeared in the papers of that day. As
there were various rumours abroad, and as there would be
no opportunity of making a statement upon the subject
until Monday next, he hoped the noble viscount, in defe-
rence to the anxiety that existed in the public mind,
would he able and willing to give some details of the news
received from the Crimea ?
Lord PALMERSTON said that a telegraphic message
had been received early that morning from the Crimea. It
was necessarily very short. The substance of it had been
already communicated by Lord Panmure to the newspapers
of that morning. Of course, when the Government were
put into possession of further details, his noble friend would
communicate them to the public as soon as they were re-
ceived.
The motion for the adjournment was then agreed to.
EDUCATION (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The house then went into committee-on this bill.
The CHAIRMAN said that the question before the com-
mittee was, that clause 1 as amended stand part of the bill.
Mr. BLACKBURN rose to move an amendment. He
did not think that by the clause as it stood the popular re;
presentatives would have sufficient control at the board.
He, therefore, proposed to omit clause 1, with the view
of bringing up a clause at another stage of the measure, to
the effect that it shall be lawful for her Majesty, upon
the recommendation of the Committee of Council upon
education, to appoint a minister of education in Scotland
who shall be answerable for the operation of the act, and
who shall be paid a certain salary, the amount of which to
be fixed by her Majesty's Treasury.
Mr. MACKIE supported the amendment.
Lord W. GRAHAM' wished to know from the learned
Lord Advocate whether there were any words in the bill
ao prevent the appointment of a Roman Catholic at the
board; and if not whether he would object to the insertion
of some such words on the bringing zip of the report?
Mr. V. SCULLYhoped that if the Roman Catholics were
to be excepted from any voice in the matter, thel would
be also relieved from any taxation under the bill.
Mr. C. Bruce said that the hon. and learned' member
for,Cork could not have been in the house when the noble
lord at the head of the Government made such large
promises of pecuniary assistance to the Roman Catholics
in Scotland in support of their scheme of education—pro-
posals which took the Scotch members by surprise, but to
which no objections had been made by any member on his
side of the house. It appeared that these promises of the
noble lord had a wonderful effect upon the Roman Catholic
members of that house in inducing them to support the
Government in this measure, which, without such assis-
tance, would very likely have beeu objected to by the house.
When the Roman Catholics in Scotland obtained such
pecuniary assistance from the Government, he did not
think it very unreasonable that they should be asked to
bear their fair share of the burden for the carrying out of
this measure.
The LORD ADVOCATE said he had no intention to
introduce any words to promote the object which the noble
lord had in view. He believed that the people of Scotland
were under no apprehension as to this matter, and ho did
not think it at all necessary to make the provision suggested.
Mr. HADFIELD thought the objection raised by
the noble lord a serious one. According to the preamble
of the bill, the Presbyterians were only to have the benefit
of the measure. There were, however three bodies belong-
ing to that denomination—viz., the Established Church of
Scotland, the Free Church, and the United Secession
Church. Now, the first and last of those bodies were de-
cidedly advei•se to the bill, and the only body that would
benefit by it was the Free-Church party. The learned
Lord Advocate had put the worst test possible in this bill
when he provided that the teacher, whatever might be his
character and ability, if he did not teach according to a
particular catechism should be rebuked, or suspended, or
deprived altogether of his situation.
Mr. F. SCOTT thought it would havebeen more respect-
ful to the house if some member of the government had
•risen and explained the reasons for constructing the clause
in its present shape, which he could assure them would
prove most unsatisfactory to the people of Scotland.
Mr. A. PELLATT said that he bad good authority for
stating that the bill was looked upon in Scotland as a more
piece of clap-trap, and that the provisions made for the
education of children in that country war already amply
sufficient. The new schools would be, no improvement ; on
the contrary, they would turn out to be a ,check on the
progress of education in Scotland. The voluntary principle
had been most successful there, but the effects of the bill
would be mischievous in the highest degree. He should
give his unqualified opposition to the bill in every stage.
Lord W. GRAHAM stated his intention to move, on
bringing up the report, a clause to the effect that, as the
bill was to apply to Presbyterians only, no Roman Catholic
should be constituted a member of the board.
The committee divided—
For the clause
, Against it •••••
Majority
—5O
The clause was then ordered to stand part of the bill.
Or clause 2,
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the application of the public
money in the manner proposed by this clause. He should
like to have an estimate of what the probable expense of
carrying out the system would amount to. Scotland had
already a superior system of popular education, and he did
not see why the country should be thus favoured by the
expenditure of the public money more than any other part
of the United Kingdom. He (Mr. Williams) approved of
neither of the three bills before the house, though he sup-
ported any one of them as a step in the right direction ;
but none of them propased to take any grant of public
money, except that before the house, and that he objected
to.

101

The LORD ADVOCATE said, if a system of national
education was to be had, the nation would have to pay the
expense of it in some shape or other, as the voluntary sys-
tem, at least in Scotland, had been tried and had failed.
In England and Wales, also, the denominational system
had failed ; and there was no option left but that proposed
by the bill. The Privy Council grants were only available
where a certain amount of wealth existed in a locality, and
not in poorer parishes, such as were to be found in Scot-
land.

Mr. WILLIAMS said the bill embraced :very school in
Scotland, and as there was a good system of schools to that
country, ho thought that an undue proportion of the sum
granted for education in the United Kingdom was allotted
to Scotland.

The amendment was negatived without a division, and
the clause was then agreed to. So likewise was clause 3.
Clause 4 baying been put,
Mr. E. LOCKHART proposed an amendment with a
view to leave the superintendence of tho religious educa-
tion in the parochial schools under the superintendence of
thepresbytery, _ _

Tlie LO-RD-ADVOCATE opposed the amendment, and
said be considered that the bill as it stood would do justice
to all parties interested.

After some further discussion. the committee divided,
and the numbers were—
. For the amendment
Against it
Majority
Clause 4 was then agreed to
Clauses 5,6, 7,8, and 9, inclusive, were agreed to, with
some verbal amendments,
On clause 10, referring to parochial schoolmasters,
Sir APCAMPBELL moved an amendment, to the effec
that the hentors should fix the salaries of these school
masters at any sum not more than 341. nor less than 201

.... 77
, _ 115
... -38

per annum.
The amendment was, after some conversation, agreed to.
Upon the question that the clause should stand part of
the bill,
Mr. W. WILLIAMS objected to the clause upon the
ground that the sum, which would
Was under its
too operation
great as
compared with tho proportion be
expended upon education
in
ti Scotland,n
of tho population of that
country to that of the rest of the kingdom.
The committee divided, and there appeared—
For the clause as amended .................. 21G
Against it ..........
c1au5e.......... 5
Majority for th-211
Was received with
The announcement of themaj.;iii ............
shouts of laughter.
Clause 11 having been proposed,
Mr. CUMMING BRUCE moved that the following pro-
viso be inserted :—" That where any parochial school-
master within the counties of Aberdeen, Banff, and
be allowed to. retire as above, he shall c.on,
Moray, may . .
tinue to retain unimpaired his rights in connection with,
and his interest in, the bequest of the late James Dick;
and shall, notwithstanding his retirement, be entitled to
receive annually, during his life, such allowance' as may
bo granted to him by the trustees of the said bequest."
After some conversation the amendment was agreed to.
Clauses 12 and 13, as amended, were agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. 'A. PELLATT, •
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained leave
to sit liza,b3 on Monday tioxt.