The National Register.
London, England, 1816-04-07 00:00:00

THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

a general regulation, as far as possible for the nialia7ement of
the poor. Another was to prevent the farming out of t!:e po tr.
A third was to prevent children being bound apprentices to
the masters of tile pony-I .es ; and a fourth to prevent patipt rs
being imprisoned and kept in chains. He trusted, that all these
objects would be ellected by his Hon. Friend's bill, nut only as
related to Lincoln, but to every pine-house in the kingdom.
He should suggest the propriety of making the impribunmeut
of paupers by roasters and governors of poor-houses a misde-
meanour, and that the otfonce should extent' to oversvers and
other parish officers oho connived at it.
Sir E BKIDGCS Her is favour of die hill.
The Bill was read a first, and ordered to be read .a second
time. _ _ .

Mr. SHARP presented a petition from the importers and
dealers in fort ign wines, and pruyinl relief from the duties.
Mr. VANSITTART Wid,a deputation of the persons concerned
in the wine trade had waited on him, and urged the necessity
of a reduction in the (tunes on wine; he then stated to them,
that ander the circumstances of the country he could not anti-
cipate any reduction in the duties ou a luxury which had been
a productive source of revenue t and further, that if any re-
duction of duties could take place on any articles, it would be
on articles necessary to the lower dais of society-L(11w%)
Sir M. Ittinnx rimed for a copy of any contract which
might exist for serving the table for the guards at St. James's,
and the names of the persons attending there.
Mr. VAVIITTART said, it was unnecessary. The officers
were to have a compensation, and the table be done away.—
( near, hear.)
EXCISE AND CUSTOMS.

Mr. BROVOITAII moved, that au Act of the 5 ith of the King,
relative to the Customs and Excise, should he entered ita read,
which was dune. . _ _

Mr. Bnoveitast then rose to bring forward a motion which
concerned every commercial man, awl, indeed, every iadivi•
du 11 in the creintry, inasmuch as it concerned the constitution
of the country. In bridging forward this motion, it would be
recessary for him to advert to what had beet' the state of the
law as related to the Customs and Escise duties of the country,
which in a time of peace, amounted to 33 millions, and n
time of war, 43 millions. Formerly all the business of this
branch of the revenue rested with tile boards of Customs and
Excise, the .sheathers of which held their situatious during life
or good behaviour. Formerly also these boards had the con-
trotil over all eases of otreuces committed by persons against
this branch of the revenue laws, and the consideration of cases
arising out of these laws, which till four of our statute book.,
occupied a very considerable portion of the time of the Com-
missioners ; and it was afterwards found necessary to give his
:Majesty's Attorney General a power of slopping proceedings
and restoring seizures mole under the laws; but this could
only be done pending proceedings. and in cases where there
was a proof that no intention to defraud existed, or whisk the
fraud arose from mistake; and these powers did nut extend to
any cases of breach of the navigation laws. With these 'Teaks-
tions, which excluded all political or ministerial intl., rferem.e, the
laws existed till July, Int!, when the .Ict which had just been
read was pawed. and which, he contended, changed at mice
the constitution of the country. The first prevision of this
Act gave a power of restoration after condemnation ; the
second set wide the question of whether with good intention
or fraudulent design; and the third pros ision did assay all
consideration of the navigation laws; MA ill tact, transferred
a dispensing power over a branch of reventie amounting to 45
millions annually from the unpolitical, uniniiiisterial Illwirds of
Excise and Cestouts, to the Ministerial Board of Treasury.
After mentioning the precipitate manner in wlfaelt the Bill lie
condemned was introduced, and the lateness of the time. (viz.
the Intli July,') lie trusted the House would now accede to
his motion fir enquiry into the several eases which lie would
state. The first case was that of Mr. Bailey, a common
brewer, in which a verdict had been taken, by conseut, ler •
4001. The fast attempt made to get rid of this verdict, was a
memorial presented to Mr. Arbuthnot, of the Treasury, fr. m
Lord B'estmoreland, desiring that the case might be considered
by the Treasury. The case and memorial were upon this
referred to the Commissioners of Excise. Mr. Brougham pro-
ceeded to lead other letters from the memorialist to Lord
Westmoreland, aeknowledeing the kind attention of his Lord-
ship, and expressive of gratitude. Mr. It. observed, he was
not at liberty here to advert to the connection which there
was between Lord Westmoreland and Mr. Bailey, and the
Borough of Lyme Regis. The Board of Excise, however,
reported that this was a case which might not to be taken out
of the emiree of law. After having retuned it back four times
to the Board of Excise, the Treasury adopted the report, but
Hot till a delay of 13 months had been glycol to llr.
which delay arising from Mr. Bailey has ing a friend at Court,
was the next good to having the tine remittr ds The next case
was that of Mr..). Abbot, of Canterbury, %silo had been con-
victed of using vitriol, quassia, end other deleterious drugs in
brewing his porter. 'lle case, the Hon. Member said, was
filly proved, but memorials were presented, stating that Mr.
Abbott was ignorant of such materiels being on his premises ;
and memorials to character of the highest description, signed
by Mr. Marriott, Sir E. lintiehboll, and Sir W. Cuteis, all
Members; and alto high testimonials to character from Mr.
Baker, Member for Canterbury; and from the Reverend amid
respectable Dean of Canterbury. consequent effect of
these testimonials was, that the proceedings were suspeaded,
and the case, with the testimonials, WI re referred to the Com-
missioners of Excae, who ri port; d upon the l'.!3C that it was
oi.e of the mo-t aggravated, end that it was one which, milers
the Lords of the Treasury should give positi.e orders to the
contrary, they should feel it their duty to proceed in. Th.'
was the derision of the Excise. The Tleasurv, Lou ever,
ordered the fur her proceedings to be send, in Abbott's
Pstaing a hue of 5001. and expellees. Whereas had the case
been proceeded in, die penalties would hare amounted to
90001. It would. perhaps, be said that Mr. Abbott was only
legally guilty, and that he had no knowledge-411cup, hi-are/rem
the Chwiectlur if his Exchequer !)—lie was glad to hear thus
ewer, and he wished it lei slit be acted epen in other cases as.•
well as theta! of Excise. le wis'aed it might he este:Wed to
libels.. Here the Hon. Member ails erted to several cases of
printers and publishers who lied been hued, altlitetelt it was
I proved they were ignorant of the publication Navin. tat.en
pile fill their pri inises. Judges iii these cases land always
held that ignorance was no excuse for the dissemination of
poison amongst his Majests's subjects. 'file Hon. 'Member
next ad vernal to the case of Wolfe Benjamin, a sea vomit:date
ttwer, at Leigh, w Esses. ileve Mr. Isenjamin obtained testi-
fioni .hr. Hotiblon, Mr. Striitt, and Mrs Western, all
' it tubu rs of this House; and in the weer' of the report of the
Commissioners of Excise, tile tines were remitted. The next
case was that of J. Gipps, who hid (-mill-evened the anti tales,
and against whom judgment was ewer. d up for iioal. Ame
' morial was presented, and a strong testimonial front
inhabitants of the comity of Soothe-mat-in, which represented
that he hail long been distinguished for his loyalty and zeal for
L his Majesty's governateut; sad that he had always stood toi tb,

emordless fit expence, in support of the friends toad measure;
of his Majesty's government. This testimonial had ,lrs effects
sad in the faro of the Commissioners, who reported, that they
raw nothiag in the testinumials deserving of favour, and that
he ought to pay the full penalty. IHa having paid MM. out
4411001. the Treasury re trOtted Abe retnabiing 1001. This the
Hon. Gentleman dm l.trcd woe a cries
would e
wooftdheaszstituighinoktisit
patty description. After this case,
power to be lodged in the breast cola hoard, subject to political
feelings and prejudices? Neither, in his opinion, ought it to
loil,m with the Board of Excise; who, in the discharge admir
ditties, might be too prone to enforce lines; but in some inde-
pendent quarter a power of review ought to exist. Where it
should be lodged, he was not called on to say. If he could
prove that the Board of Treasury had, in the case.of John
Gipps, prostitutt d the powers of the Act to political motives,
he submitted he had made out a case of.p.ious fuck evidence,
and for further enquiry. The Hen. ?timber then concluded
by moving a Resolution to that effect.
Mr. VA NSITTART said if the Hon. Gentleman had at all made
out his case, he might, instead of censure, have moved for im-
peachment of his Majesty's :Ministers. The fact was, however,
that he had made out nothing mute than a case of mercy on the
part of the Crown. With respect to the state of the law, as
laid down by the Hon. Gentleman, he was wrong in every
point. The *Board of Excise had always been dependent ou
the Crown, and received directions front the Treasury Board,
which had always the. power of revis:ou of titles And penalties;
and the new Act only gave a more summary power to the
Board of 'Treasury, which, before the passing of the Act of
the 3SO of the King, exercised the saute power through the
medium of the Attorney-General. With respect to the eases
which the Hon. Gentleman had cited,, only two were caws iu
which proceedings had bet* carri-el ou to conviction, and
therefore, on the others there could he no doubt the Tremmy
had the power of remission. The lion. Gentleman had aumed
for twenty-nine cases, cut of which he, had selected six on
which to found his chat ge, but he now seemed inclined to
abandon all except one—that of Gipps. The Right lion. Gen-
tleman then catered into a review of this particular case, and
observed, that there has been a sittottlar negligence on the
part of the Board of Excise, a Ito had not laid the only docu-
ments which gave a tinge to the rase before the Board uf Trea-
sury, and the memorial not only gave Gipps. a character foe
loyalty, but also for fair dealing; anti the Treasury certainly
considered a fine of AWL added to costs, amounting 3001. more,
was punishment snffielient for such an offence as Gipps was
charged with. The Right Hon Gentleman then proceeded to
comment on the other eases, and contended that the punish-
ments had been fairly apportioned to each offenee.—All the
indulgense which had been estended to Davy was, a delay of
two months allowed to pay the tine in after the proceedings had
terminated. In Mr. Abbott's case, it was allowed by the Hon.
Gentleman that Mr. Abbott was ignorant of the offence being
committed, and it could not be said that he had been vety leni-
ently treated, when it was considered that it was only on imme-
diate payment of a tine of 301)1. and all costs, that proceedings
against hint were suspended. The Right Hun. Geutleman con-
cluded by movino, as an Amendment, the previous question.
Sir S.RomiLi.v, Mr. TIERNEY, and Mr.PosisoNny could sea
no grounds on which the penalties iuGipps's case were remitted.
except that he was a zealous supporter of the measures and the,
friends of Government.
Lord C eiTLER FAWN, Mr. LUsIIING TON, the SOLICITOR GE.
NERAL, Mr. SMITH, and Mr. Peovn inn supported the
Amendment; the House divided—For the original Motion alli
—For the Amendment I2l—Majority against the Motion Sl.
Adjourned at Halt' Past Two.
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 3.
Lord G. L. Gower presented a petition front Stafford, pray-
ing a reduction in the Military and Naval Establishment, se%
neral economy, relief of the agricultural interest, rec.
Sir R. Name moved for an inquiry into the present mode of
employing children in cotton manufactories. The lion. Mem-
ber, after adverting to the manner in which children were fora
merry employed in these manufactories, said, Ile had last year
brought hi a Bill for regulatiug the employmentolapprentices,
which had been productive of the happiest effects: his pre•
sent object would, if adopted, provide that children should be
taugheto read and write; and that those tinder ten years of
age should not be employed in the manufactories, nor should
they be employed more than 13 hours in the day. The Howe
would perhaps be surprised to learn, that in some installers,
children under this aee, were employed lii or 17 hour. in the
day. These children were, in fact, the riches el the country;
without them, the various machinery employed by us would be
useless, and even mischievous. The Hon. Bart. concluded by
moving for the appointment of a Committee to enquire into the
state of the children employed in the manufactoriesin the king-
dom, and to report to the Home thereupon.
Mr. FINDLAY wished that the Hon, Baronet's censure should
be confined to particular instances, and not be uttered as ap.
plying generally. He (Mr. F.) had never known say instance
in which children' of the ace mentioned by the lion. Baronets
had been dragged from their Reds in the morning, and em-
ploved 16 or 17 hirers in the day. In all cases of which he had
any knowledge, proprietors of manufactories had been ansione
not to employ children under 10 years of age, and in no case
within his knowledge had children been employed more that
13 hours out of at. His lieu. Frictid, now he era., abOla to re-
tire from business, was proposine a measure which, in its ef-
fect, went to calumniate the manufacturers e,f the country. .
Sir It. PELLE could nut but consider the insitinatioe ,it' his
Hun. Friend against him as unfounded ; he guarded himself
against any intended censure in the man ufactio tot eenerally, -
lie being himself about to retire ft om business ;he 12 years -
ago proposed a Bill to the sane effect as that %skids he brought
infest Session.
Mr. LITTLETON, Mr. COURTNEY, and Mr. CORWEN, paid a
due tribute of applause to the Hon. Baronet and his humane
motives; at the same time, when the necessary investigations
should have taken place before the Committee, they were per-
suaded it would be found that very few instauces of abuse es..
• isted on this subject.
• ' After some further observations from Mr. Goonots, Mr,
Wnwrrenev, and ethers, the motion was atmeed to.
The Bat for securing the Purity of Election in the Borough
of Heldone was read a second time, and committed fur Mon.
day fortnight.
THE POLICE. OF THE MF.TROPOLIS.
. Mr. BENS:I.IT, purotant to notice, brought forward his me.
lion for a Committee to enquMe into the state of the Police of
I the Metropolis. Committees, the Hon. Gent. observed, Mid
heels appointed on the subject more than once. The lust Oen-
!Mime sit in Isdi, sr hen the meet voli was in a state of alarm
on account of the melancholy monde et' the Marrs; It, the la.
hours of that Committee. the Hon. Gent. said, had produced
imbing. He then proceeded ta take a res iew of the state of -
j .he Police at present, and which he contended was inetficica.
alludsoll to the system of gut ing a reward of
4Hele.Pt!ic
otrrtthli
edlrapliemebeusioa and conviction of capital ottendemi

whilst ei teas M inlet lot' (Were, s, the detection of ss heel re
sieve ! no reward, weie •101, led to go on, till the otlendei , in-
creasing is v.ce at d iiertillio id. plot e: led till his cisme et
tweed -itch a inagn rattle, as made his pet sett worth II &king
aft. r. Ties Wits one great ev.l of the system. Aim her evil
was, ihe esist ut e Of a litiOlbe .
rOl homes, call. d h lit uses,
to which thie ri.surietl, sod of which !beet, wei e 'Tomtit.
Of 100 west 01 Temple Bar, all well known to tlw Pollee Offi-
cers. Auo h•.r gie .t es il o as, he bellicved, the number ot penal
fah net a, is me than Wee, which snood in our statute book „lied
which, tr. in hi it immelise number, fi evenly tu (laced Judge
ard dillies in heir mercy—the offences luring trivial—to allow
the aft n,:ers io escape altogetlit r. Anotherevil was the great
expellee ant n.ling leeseeuting in criminal Cases : which, it ispe
peat eit, the c, a.se of lust year had cost the
.public abuse
a 0 'There was ;Also another great and crying . end.
that was, that in our prisons there was no classtheati, n of
crenes ; but the great and the triflitig—the young iied the har-
d. ned offender against the laws—were uotifni d together. Ihe
lieut. considered the system of transportateet as one
great , vil. Offenders were sent to the hulks, from which, ut
the esti la irn of their sentences, they were turned. upon the
pubs c withgorse morals than-at the time of their punishineet
cent oeactag. So with respect to persons.returiang tient trans-
port Men, lie had hi aid it asserted, that no person es er re-
turn, d from transportation who was not either. leeiged utler-
eze, or eentinuede.o range about town, 111 l tutting depreda-
tions La the public. Ile eiewhided by nu.v'ng lor the appo.nt-
mauit of a Committee to i c iota the resent state of the
Police of the comet y_
Mr. 11.ArintsimroN could cot ,:re the necessary for a Select
Committee, as no emend of e plaint hail been hahlaettiust
tine 1I i g is, i airs for a dereliction of their duty. His N Male Re-
tatian (I.oid Sidirouth)a•sumbled the Magistrates on the tir:t
day of evely it. onth, it the Office of the Home Department. They
meo este? day, as mail, and they declared that they ut ver
knewthe Metropolis none tranquil. They also expressed their
surprise that it was so, because the restoration of Peace had
throw n such a number of persons out of employ. With re-
spect to the increase of yonthfal depravity, he was sorry to
state the fact was so; hut the Penitentiary-house wi as n a state
of being very AOOll finished ; that deseriptioneil confinement
was beet calculated to punish, and at the saute time reform,
this species of juvenile depredators.
The Motion was then agreed to and a Committee appointed.
THIRD SECRETARY OF STATE.
Met, TIERNEv ruse to call the attention of the House to the
filffice of Third Secretary of State ; and to propose an Addlt as
tothePrince Regent, that the din Won of tliefitate Office merle
1th1794, be revised and placed on the footing it stood .in 17:13.
The object which he had in view was, to economize the espen.
MS of the service without endangering the safety of the coun-
try.—The question for consideration was, whether in the pre-
sent state of the country it was not necessary to abolish the
Office altogether, and thus carry. economy into effect.
to• 1765, there were only twq secretaries of State; when a
third Secretary was appointed( under the name of Colonial Se-
susetary, which continued till, 17042, when Mr. Burke's Bill abo.
lashed that Office. matters continued till the year 1794 ;
when, Mr. Dundas being Secretary for the Home Department,
it was found that the business arising from the war had so in-
creased, that it became necessary to revive the Office of third.
Secretary to act as War Secretary.—lt was then clear that this
institution of a War Secretary, was for the purpose of settling
the la bouts of the Home secretary, and leaving. him, to trans-.
act the business of the Home Department unfettered with
any of the War transactions.. The Home Secretary lead the
conducting of the colonial business, and indeed it was evident
that the whole of that business sea managt•din the Home-Of-
tice. To show the fact to be so, he need only refer to the es i-
ilence of Mr. King, the Under Secretary of State. In this de-
partment was cast the whole executive business of the British
mpire, ith the exception of the Ease belies. The war being
now over, he had to contend.that the State office ought to re-
vert back to the situation iu objets it stood previous to 1794.
It would be recollected that the speech from the throne stated
the readiness of the Prince Regerst to concur in any suggestions
which the House might make. 'the House hetkinade none, as
yet; and, therefore, he thought it high time to begin.—(!fear,.
Aear!)—He made the proposition without any. party motives,
Istft with a view to economy; for he would have proposed it if
his own friends had hem in power. 'The Right Hun. Gentle-
linen then stated• the cepences of the refer Secretary up to the
present period, to defray the charges as they at present stand,
w sum of 29,0001. would be requited. A Paper on the table
would chew the-estimate of the eepences. The expence of the
Home Department was &A nil. not nickeling clerks, This stun
was paid to Lord Ilatherst, his Secretaries, Oec. The War De-
partment was now reduced to 14901. So that all that related
to the Office was done away withsin consequence of the peace.
The defence ot• Ministers to-night annst be, that, iu continuing
this office, it was for the purpose of transacting the coluniul.bir-
eines!: He contended, that the Coloniel Department orient,
without detriment to the setAita, be transferred back to 'the
lione Department : nor would he object to the transfer of the
.tacretary of the War Department. Such a. transfer would
save to the country between 12 and 14,0001. a year, He might
be told that the increased acquisition of Colonies had.contri-
lauted materially to.tbe increase of the business. It might be
said, that the Mauritius, Ceylon, and the Cape,formed a ground
ef. objection to ehe transfer; but he saw no reason why the bu-
siness-of those Islands slieulthnot be transacted at the Office
of the Board of Centroul, lie had no desire to deprive the
I :es erinueut of a Cabinet Minister—all that he wanted was, to
turn the Noble Lord over to the Beard of Controul, by subdki.
ding the busiuras of the Secretary ut State, and thereby save
the connti y tram 12 to le,oool. a year. He thought it no dif-
ficulty to make work for himself, if lie held a sinecure office.
When he was Treasurer of the Nevy, lie did contrive
totted employment for about an hum or an hour and a half a
diy. It was true that if a Gentleman chose lie might cut out
work• or the appeartuwe of out k, by-ordering the Clerks under
him to make out returns of this, to copy that, and recopy the
steer account, all for the sake of being a men of busineet. lie
hoped tl.e 1(1/use would agree n ith ham, that, under the pre-
sent circumstances ofi the country this thiel S wecretary, ho
was a kind of interloper, should, be got rid of. The itieht
Hon. Gentlemaii concluded with moving the Asklress, &c.
Mr. Ouvenutes conceived it was necessary far him to state
lame reasons fur object; ng ill (rim to the motion of the Right
sun. Gentlemen. In It;;'I, the accession of the CUllli/ieS was
Illotill4 so oppressive on tee war department, that it beaame
necessary to transtvr tie militia and volunteer corps to the
henat depaitinciit, and to place the colonit under the ‘
of the oar department. lic rontomi,..ltiwtird,
the celunies had a right to a riepoioitee I
nor ,rgs it roveeil t ttaO
cape tin-
send Omit' airairl; them' too
their adrift., awl divide the I;.7.4...geinent among diginct •{7
He inatanced the variety of loisiiiiss mine,' the • f 1"2.1.
As the col •s had been the means of etahlrien rir
It'
•
lit Cul terniination of the war, he tle,tig!st theytel.; it! ttelletistliecti