The National Register.
London, England, 1821-05-28 00:00:00

THE NATIONAL REGISTER

were punishable to the extent which had been awarded
to the criminals ; lint there was the statute uf Geo. 11. tte.
The existing law was defective; police officers might be
maimed without cutting, and they could only in„„c„le
fur assatils, and be propused to amend lite la w as to resider
more effectual protection to officers and others, who might
prevent, or endeavour to prevent, lire rescue of prisoners.
The SOLICITOR GENERAL should not oppose the
bringing in of the bill. The common law provided the
mode of prosecution and punishment; and the statute
applied to casts for attempting rescues.
Motion agreed to.
Mr. WILBERFORCE said, he should as early as possi-
ble bring forward a motion respecting papers that had
now been some time before the house, regarding the more
effectual abolition of the slave trade; lie named Tuesday,
June 6.
CRIMINAL Laws.—Fonaxay.—Sir J. MACINTOSH
moved that the house resolve itself into a committee on the I
forgery punishment mitigation bill.
The SOLICITOR GENERAL said, it was with consider-
able pain that he felt it his duty to oppose this motion.—
He was happy that this question could be discussed without
any thing like ;ratty feeling—party had nothing to do with
it.—This bill uruse out of the report of last session on the
criminal laws ; and that report, he said, it was impossible
to read is about admitting that it took an extremely partial
view of the questiou. There were many persons in this
country is ho were aversefrom executions fur various offences;
sod therefore it might easily have been predicted that wheu
the committee was uppointcd,such persons would press them-
selves on the attention of the committee. lie had unfeigned
respect for the chairman of the comrdttee ; but the report
was evidently the production of haste, and therefore was
not entitled to so much attention. It spoke fur instance of
he lass s regarding privately stealing to the minima of 40,.
and of privately stealing on board vessels on navigable rivers,
wheu is fact tin such laws existed.—lie then spoke of the
crime of forgery. The first °Mice was that of forging a
will, an offence easily committed, but which might ruin
whole families; forging transfer of stuck, marriage licenses,
deeds, &c. 11, as the house prepared to agree that transom.
tattoo in such cases would be sufficient ? He was aware that
inflicting death for forgeries was no innovation on the com-
mon law ; forgeries w ere formerly punished as misdemeanors;
but the reason was tolerably evident. The offences were
extremely rare heretofore; but when commerce increased, and
and sr ben writing became more extensively known, in Eli-
zabeth's reign, the law on the subject was made more severe.
There was another Act on the subject in George the Second's
reign, more exemplary punishment having been deemed
necessary. That Act, however, was not introduced without
the greatest consideration. Lord Hardwicke was at the
(line Attorney General. It was at first made teinpprory ;
It was pooled for live years, but the subject had frequently
been brought forward, nod lie therefore begged the house to
exercise the greatest r ireudispection before it disturbed the
practice established by about a century. The rensun was
said to be, fur an alteration in the existing law, that the ex-
isting law was not efficient to repress lot geries. He denied
that statewentiof the preamble (—private forgeries were not
frequent. The law in such case, he contended, was efficient
Ile denied the Lace of the argument, that many persons,
who now abstuitied from prosecution on account of the
Penalty, would pi use if the punishment were lessened ;
in either ca,r they %soukd be mietated on by such consider-
atiosit—l he .everity of time penalty. Punishment was meant
to prevent the committal of crime, by terror or otherwise;
but if the offence were punished with transportation only,
prisoners often would, as transports had done before, ou
being convicted, turn round to the judge, and thank him fur
the change of condition obtanied. Persons guilty of forge-
ries were geocrally in a most distressed situation; and they
therefore would not object to such change as that of trans-
portation. He admitted that the punishment in other coun-
tries were ant so"severe, but then they had is police, and
modes of proceeding against the prisoners that were unknown
iu this country ; and, under such circumstances, we mast
i take the good together with the evil. He coucluded with
moving as an amendment, that the hill be committed this
day six months.
Mr. P. BUXTON defended the bill. _ _

Mr. MARTIN (of Galway)strongly supported the bill.—
He was convinced many offenders escaped prosecution in
consequence of the indispositiou of persons to prosecute
where the punishment of death was to follow. He himself
was an instance of this—a person committed a forgery on
him two years ago, for two thousand pounds. and he directed
that the °treader should be prosecuted for u minor OGIICC,
if possible. The person whu lodged the information entt red
into re• ognizaiices to prosecute. The assizes comic, and he
then learnt that if he proceeded iu the prosecution, the maw
would be hanged. He then advised the prisoner to lipid) to
put oir his trial ; be did so, and be (Mr. M.) before the next
assize-, directed the lain mer to forfeit his recognizance
by nut appearing. lle did so, and the offender esiniped.—
Whereas, hind the punishment been transportation instead
of death, he would have prosecuted the offender to con-
viction.

Dr. LUSII I NGTO N also supported the bill. The forging
of is ills nas a very rare (acute—he had only known of three
instances, and io these the parties would not prosecute be-
cause of the capital punishment o illCh 1111w:bed to it. It
was singular, but a case, one of the three, occurred to him
this very morning. Ina case in which he was engaged pros
essinually, the forgery being clearly proved, the person who
should huve prosecuted wrote a letter, which he, (Dr. Lush
illicit)) had in his hand this very morning, in which he said,
" get back the property; I am nut vindictive,and I will not
prosecute." As to the punishment of death having an efliet
in deterring others from the commission of crime, it had no
such elfect. He had been informed of an instance which
occurred to a youth of IS, about two years ago. He had
up to that time a good character. Oue morning he passed
up the 01.1 Bailey during an execution; be inquired a hat
the criminal was suffering fur, aft,' oils tool(' tor forgery.—
The youth aas a tie, k in a tot I chant', liou..e; lie %tut to
his cmploy, committed a foorory on his employer that very
' day, and paid his life as the furl it of its slime.
Mr. NOLAN supported the amendment of the Sulleitot
General, on this short and strong ground—that the bill
itself admitted death to be the proper poisoi•litin tit uf for-
gery in the first instance, in one case; and in the secy. I
instance, in all other can •es.
C. W. ‘l, YNN cutitenileil that the onus was t ly
an the other side to show the propriety of the continuance
of the punishment of death. (Hear, (tear.)—lle tt ho
donlwed the necessity of death as to the punisllatellit
bound to vote for going into the commit to e.
Alt. W. COUBTEN A N. would vote in favour of the bill
in its present stage; and it was because lie behest(' they
were going .11004 with public opinion,. It was the ti.soi es.
siou public uptuiun which bad called tut the cuutuuttee,

I.J

and which now called far the specific measure* lit opei.e.l.
He opposed the committee because he had thought a
ferent mode more eweveuient 4 11111, having been one of its
members, he could say that di. y bad not begun the inquiry
with any partial or prejudiced ileterinisiatiun.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to stale the
considerations which influeueed him in the vote he. should
give. In doing so, hr felt that it ought to be the wish of
every humane man and enlightened legislator to reduce
punishment to the bounds of strict necessity. Whore the
law was enforced, crimes were diminished; where re:
taxed, crimes were hi d in number. By the Mire-
diction of transportation for the minor offence,the forgery
of the negotiable instruments of the Bank of England was
increased. The forgery of private instruments was visited
with capital punishment, and was therefore less frequent.
Government were nut to blame for having neglect. d to
provide secondary punishments. It ass a matter of ma-
terial consideration whether there was any secondary
punishment iu existence for forgery. If there was no
punishment in transportation, it was a question whether
indemnity or a positive bounty on forgery was to be
enacted. They were at work to strip forgers of eve.;
circumstance which constituted a imuishment calculated
to prevent it. Now, forgery was so fatal to the whole
order of society, and in its nature so aggravated au of-
fence, that it was nee y to visit it with a punishment
that should carry terror to the minds of all.
Mr. WILBERFORCE could not go to a division with-
out giving his testimony in favour of the bill. Whatever
might be the final determination, none ought to vote
against going into a committee, unto. they were so in love
with the present system that no change was thought de-
sirable or practicable. To extinguish life was to extin-
guish hope, and to destroy an immoi tal son!.
Sir JAMES MACINTOSH proceeded to argue the
question before the house, If his silence might not be
considered unbecoming, he should have been well content
to have rested the case on the spe..ch of his hon. friend
(Mr. Buxton)---a speech so complete as to have exhausted
the whole question, and so Luminous as he bad never be-
fore had the good fortune to bear in that house. (Cheers.)
It would be needless and irksome to follow on the was
side, and if he might be silent, he should willingly rest the
measure on the principles of that admirable exposition.
It was to facts and inferences such as were there pre-
sented, that the house was bound to attend. He stood
not there to refute hypercriticism; but lee did not abstain
from any consciousness of Inability to defend the report
from the objections made to it. (Cheers.) Alter much
forcible reasoning expressed in most eloquent language,
the lion. and learned gent. concluded by saying that he
now left it to any hon. gent. who chose, to exercise the
right of speaking after him.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL supported the amend.
sent at some length.
The house thee divided—Ayes, IlB—Noes, 74—Majo-
rity 41 fur the original motion.
0., our re-admission we found the house in a committee
on the bill, Mr. Buxton in the Chair.
It was agreed that any alteratiuns or discussions as ising
on the clauses should be postpoued till the bringing up of
the repot t.
The house ref 1111 l ed, and the report was ordered to be
received on Friday.
Sir JAMES MACINTOSH postpoued the other two
' bills till Friday.
lite other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the house adjourned.
THURSDAY, NAY 21.
Mr. H. SUMNER. moved for leave to withdraw the New-
ington Select Vestry Bill, the parties coocerued having come
to an arrangement among themselves.
Mr. DENISON expressed his satisfaction at the motion..
Motion agreed to.

Mr. At;TELL presented a petition, praying the house to
repeal prohibitory duties on the importation of eons. He
maintained that those duties had operated most igjuriously
au all classes.
Mr. CUR WEN defended the agriculturalists.
Mr. HUME said the corn laws had operated most injn-
rlously.
Mr. T. WILSON thought the petitioners were proceeding
somewhat erroneously ; it would have been better to petition
the Chancellor of the Exchequer to bring down the times to
en amount corresponding with the value of money, land, Ale.
Petition referred
,to the agricultural committee 14 ithuet
having been read.
Mr. ELLICE presented a petition from Newington
Green against the metropolis road bill.—Ordered to lie ou
the table.
Sir H. PARNELL presented a petition, signed by the
four Catholic Archbishops, and majority of the Catholic
Clergy of Ireland, on hermit of the education of the pour.—
Ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. BIRCH presented& petition from Nottingham ngninst
the poor lases amendment bill. Peraitio read and ordered
to he printed.
Mr. C. II A lINLY presented a similar petition from Nor-
& i ch. Ordered to he prinivd.
Col. DAVIS moved that a sleet committee be-appointed
to examine into certain culpable pm ac (ices iu the clover and
trefoil aced trade—practices by means of which the vegeta-
tive qualities of the seed it ere destroyed & Wood being
disco-tremble by oily except most experienced persons.—
motion axreed to,.

FOUR AND AIIA LE PIIRCENT.Ourtri.—Mr.CREEVEY
rose to bring furisat d hie promised motion respecting a remote
duty of four and and a half per stmt. chargeable on the Lee-
ward and Barbadoes islands. lie took orcasion the other
night to object to the grant of 7,b001• for forts at Barbadoes,
became lie considered the-e forts, &c. ought to be lola its
repair by such duty. But instead of the ditty betag so ap-
mopriitted, it was diverted to the pay it,.l of certain pru.
f•lons to certain hods and ladies, lcis,,i s. :lieu: consequence,
when I.e telleeted, ice c. rtaittly did not exin et any Very
greet sneer-9 a auld attend his motion. Ile bone ver wished
the house to bear in amid that hi, first reat,lutilm related In
Bit bad.ses ti,dy. Ile treat &dressed to the Liss of ltiCal, fur
the rep:lF:l6on and tionshing of tort:11141111"os, 4r, to he paid
by the four awl a Ica per cent. duly ; but w it lie found
0011iluA about the puytneut of piitzlionnla 11l cerium lords dna
13.11r,4, C111:01112/ 110111ing ;nowt the
porkelb of memticrs torched Louse ut the skive 11.1 1 4.11•11.1:1.
hear ) —The dillies wire i.fori staid. deemed to lie
the hertilitury resent.e of the cro 'A II ; t u .‘llile %as
addressed to direct the choir, to be uppr••pti.iird estordiug
to the terms of the Ail. 'rill many ycars afterstard• both's%
in the 1i1.11.e of pen: lsere sr inted. 'rite duty was sub.
jeered to the pityn•etit ui woo.. Is Lord but bow
stood Ilea Arasbt ? Ii wits pursuant folk,. 011-.luArmrlll mole
at lie settlement of kturliadoes. A I ler ti 4iid4, hoarser pets.
(For mitimkatiun 4;:c Tart ltiG.

Arr.,

161

THE WESTMINSTER DINNER. .
On Wednesday last the fourteenth anniversary din-
ner, in cc lel of the tr,iiinlen in IVestinioster, was
held at the Crown and Anchor •1 tern. Tue great (001111
'was filled a cotisttletatole mite before the ell lir o i taken,
by a most respectable assemAye of nide ,ett‘leitt ventle-
men. At a little after five Fratteis
enter,d the room, accooloaoted ..% J C. flotillouse,
S. Whitbread, El.q. Alai:room Wtkocl, aml a IIUILIi/Cr of
other distinguished characters, and was received in the
must enthusiastic 111i11111. r. Sir F. Burdett then took
the Chair.

After the cloth was drawn, the first toast given was
—"The people, the only source of legitimate power."
Three times three. Tune—" Britons, str,ke himie."—
Toast—" The King, and may he recollect his own de-
claration, that the crown is held in trust far the benefit
of his people."—Three mama three. Sotig—" Hope
told a flattering tale," was given amidst much applause.
The health of the Queen was next drank in the most
rutlnuiastic 1140114:1, with continued cheers. Song—
" Role B1'1141111113." The only cure for all Our
grievances—a thorough reborn iii our Commons House
of Parliament," was drank with three times three.—
Tune—" Kick the rogue. out."
Alderman Wood men rose and said, that as he was an
elector of WestiuMaer, he had the privilege, of which
he ahould avail himself with peculiar delight, of propo-
sing a toast to them—the health of an individual ; of
whom he might well say, that no man could be found
in the whole kingd who had advocated the cause of
liberty so notch, nor suffered so much liar so advocating
ii, as Sir Francis Burdett. (Applause.) The wormy
Alderman professed his inability in 4141 adequate justice
to hint who was the subject of the toast lie was about to
propose, but saul,that as lunges he had health and spirits,
the electors of Westminster would he ever anxious to
maintain him in that situation which he had so lung
filled to the admiration of themselves and the nation at
large. He concluded by proposing the health of" The
consistent opposer of tyranny and oppression ; the steady
advocate of our rights; the incorruptible statesman, un-
daunted by persecution, unsullied by corruption : our
honest representative, Sir F Burdett." Which was then
drank amidst reiterated cheers. Tune—" Whilst happy
in our native land."
Sir F. Burtorre, in rising to return thanks, said it
could not but be nighty gratifying to him to meet aaain
so 110111Cr0011 an assemblage of his constituents, and to
meet with such testinunites of regard and affection as he
had then met with, after so long a counection, whicii
was too long to admit of the suspicion that any thing
like deceit or duplicity existed either on one side or the
other. To the electors of Westminster he should ever
appeal as the ouly persons who were the most liberal
in judging, he could admit none others. His services
had been rather too handsomely spoken of by the
worthy alderman, and he could only say, with regard
to them, that he would be always more than repaid by
the approbation of his constituents. As to what had
been said about the Memo eitiences he had endured, he
must in answer say, Mat he could take no individual
:merit for enduring such sufferings as he hail, when he
considered the number of his fellow countrymen who
hail been isupesoned with such rigour, for °timers
which the must hardy, since the explosion of the Stuarts,
would not before have ventured to punish.—(Loud ap-
plause.)—i-The worthy Baronet expressed the high plea-
sure which he felt at seeing that tits constituents main-
tamed the saute solid and unal eraale determination in
favour of that reform which they had so long contended
for, and of which they still continued in steady pursuit,
without any falling oft, notwithstanding the great length
of time they had been together in so unprofitable a chase.
But when he saw so many men of rank, weight, and
abilities, continning to join them in the pursuit, and so
favourable a prospect as had been held out of reformers
of every description uniting in their object, he did
tech greatly encouraged in proceeding with his cons:int-
ents iii that course which they had so long consistently
and with so numb ardour gone on. (Applause.) During
his absence trout the House of Commons, their great
question had been taken up by a gentletnati, in whose
aide hands he hoped it had not suilered, although by an
unfortunate conjunction of circumstance, it had been
got rid of in a manner that could not have been foreseen.
But he thought they could look back with confidence to
tne considerable ituntoer of important p, ruins who were
prepared to have supported the measure on which
their hopes were founded. He saw nothing in their
general affairs upon which he could congratulate them.
They saw on every side the same violent encroachmenta
made upon their laws and libertiel. But nothing that
had been done for a length of tune should give them
more alarm fur the liberty of the press—without which
no other libetty could long continue to exist—than the
formation of a body of permits, who had united, under
toe 11.1111 e of the constitutional society, for the purpose
of attacking and destroying all those publications which
advocated 1)4111111:41 sroumeuts that did not square with
those held by this association. He thought that those
ho were hostile to the liberty of the press might have
been well satisfied wialt the tincoostaititiimal measures
that had been adopted against it, alai the exercise of
those uncoils . i iii Lomat powers which had been vested
in, Soul so efficiently used by the Attorney and the Soli-
citor General, with those duties this society scented to
have set theinaelves at variance, for the pitrpose of de-
stroying whit little of the liberty of the press yet
retuaitted.—(Great applause.)—Wheti they considered
the 11i1111t3 4.11 1110se WIIO this, which he
tomtit.' take the litany to call unconstitutional and
ASSOCIaIIIOO, tiny Windt' U4:110111 with pain
toe 114411 e of a Briton 111 the truant isllo was indebted
to the public for his wealth, fame, rank, and charac-
ter, and nen for the purse which he nutted against
their dearest tertitriiiiii, the littetty ill the press.--(Gle4;
.11/11;4111C.) h r.e Ittm. blie4Cr 1114'11 1411erlud 141 the 141-
104.11w1,1.. 411114 .1i .411 coligratulated the
y dad out u.r fix the opprobrium of that
liked UOl.l most ur.ve isica wito hail tougot with such


VW,

THE NATIONAL REGISTER

bravery its the SI.:(VICC of the country. He commented
at great length upon the transaction in a powerful man-
ner, that occasioned continued bursts of feeling. He
animadverted won mileit severity upon,the statements
that had been inane in josiity me proceeding, and after-
%bards M. eti up as totally desi nute of lottittlation, and said
the public should never fore, t, trout these instances, how
little credit was due to the statements made from men in
the highest situations. Yet, 11111111
Six acts which had struck so deeply had been founded,
and lie had no doubt that the same ear would be given
to similar statements front the same quarter, when ver
it was necessary to make similar encroachments. Htd
the people in toe country continued to go on with the
sumach system of Liultlitisiti, and continued to commit
depredations on private property, their excesses would
have been beheld with an eye of more forbearance, but
it was because they had pit :he finger upon the real sore,
and had called for reform, that they were attacked indi-
rectly.—After some further observations, the bon. Bart.
adverted to the subject of the attacks which were making
upon the press, whiten had been working with excel-
lent effect in quarters vu here, until very lately, they
had no very great reason to entertain any sanguine
expectations, and had done more fur the cause of truth
and liberty than any thing else beside. Indeed, in
speaking of the benefits that were to be derived trout its
free and proper exercise, he knew not how sufficiently
to express himself. When they saw the progress it was
hourly Making; the extension of its powerful influence
over minds that had before never enjoyed its high: ; whets
the SSW the abilities with which it was conducted by
some of the first patriots, notwithandiog the difficulties
it had in its way, though they might look at their labours
with much satisfaction, they could not but tremble for
them when they saw the mischiefs and the imminent
peril to which they so honourable exprosed themselves.
applause.) He much wished that he could suggest some
measures, or devise some means, that would give to those
who fearlessly stood forward that support which they so
well deserved. The lion baronet coricluded by calling
upon reformers each to unite in his own circle, and to
bring the whole body to bear nit the House with such
a sentiment as would oblige tnem to turn a reluctant ear
to the demands uf the people.
The next toast proposed was—" The memory of our
unfortunate fellow-subjects, men, women, and children,
who suffered at Manchester in August, 1819," which
was drank in solemn silence; after which " The Dead
March in Saul " was played ty the band with much
solemnity.
The Hon. D. KINNAIRD next addressed the meeting
He said, he had great satisfaction in proposing a toast
that required no recommendation. He should, there-
fore, without further delay, propose the health of our
worthy representative, John Cain Hohhnuse, the able
and intrepid supporter of the boroughninnger oligarchy
—the man who dares to attack apostacy when sheltered
by power." (Great appl tine.)
Mr. HOBHO tins said, U his colleague considered him-
self hisuly honoured by the compliment that had been
just paid him,distinguished as lie was by the approbation
of all the people of England, how much more should
himself feel flattered by the reception of his name? The
most that a man can do by his conduct in public life is
to realize the wishes of orivate friendship, and that, it
was truly grateful to his breast, he had done. He was
now little more than a year the colleague of their long-
tr representative, and if he had failed in fulfilling
any of their expectations, it was from want of ability,
and Lot from want of inclination. Several gentlemen
regretted that they could not be present at the meeting.
Mr. H. then read letters from Lord Nugent and Mr.
Leonard, in which they severally expressed their regret
at not beiug able to attend the meeting. The cause
(said Mr. U.) is good, and never can want friends; even
if your own virtues did not support it, the vices of your
oppments would. (Applause.) The country can never
he well governed unless the people shall be fairly repre.
rented. The eleclors of Westminster had taken a proud
part, and they should ever find him their a shouts assist-
alit. Our rulers say we arc doing well. It reminded
him of a doctor, who, when his patient told him he had
not slept last night, said it was a good symptom ; the
patient said he felt quite feverish—the doctor said it was
a very good symptom—in this way we are dying of I 0,000
good symptoms. (A laugh.) Mr Hubuouse here ridi-
culed the association for restraining the liberty of the
press, and said, they would fitttl the, wh;le they thought
they were gaining laurels, they were gaining a cap and
bells. In 1693 there was also an association for putting
down the liberty of the press, hurt tt failed in its object,
and the free press, which was long the glory of the coun-
try, would overcome every effort to extinguish it.

The Chairmen next proposed the heelth of " Mr.
Whitbread, and our brother reformers in Middlesex."

„•
Mr.%lv HITUMEAD, in returning thanks, said, he cone
ID the meeting with a heart full of gratitude for the ho-
nour that Rimy of the electors of Westminster, who
were also electors of Middlesex, had done hun. He had
faithfully entleatoured to discharge his duty, and would
end as he had begun—a steady reformer. lie tint,
that it was Mr. Byng's wish to have attended the meet-
but it was not in his priwer.
The Chairman next proposed ” the Constitution of
Old England," which was drank with great ap Luse.
Mr..l HELWALL, iu an ai i i iii aied speech, called on
the meeting to support the constitution, which was at-
tacked by an association for potting down the liberty of
the press. lie pledged him-elf that he would not be
found timidly seeking his own safety when he should
contend fur the salvation of the country.
The Chairman mitt proposed " the health of Alder-
man Wood.' whose pablic acts, he said, required no
pre ise.
Alderman WOOD said, he was always a true reformer;
sometimes he was called a radical, but he supposed those
who gave hint the aplxllation judged by his acts. for he
was always ready to tilt/I 11111. corroptio,i. (Applause.)
lie was curry an J.socitition hail lirou ;or-nt.; ILI Loudon
against the freedom of the , he 11,,r(i Ihry would
remote to head-toasters.

y

Mr. Haute's health was hest proposed by the Chair..

Mr. Hums returned thanks. and ssid, though at all
limes halm), to meet lllb countrymen. he was Irecultarly
so to meet those who had set an ex inside to all England,
by sending ntru of virtue amid talent to "'Alamein.
'rise Hon. I),ltta,las Kinitairtra health was next drank.
Mr. KINNAIRD returned thanks, and said all Scot.
land were relormers. _ _ _

At half past ten oclock Sir F. Burdett, and rainy
other members of the House of Conumms, kit the room;
soon after which the comp my (which was one of the
most numerous and respectable we have witnessed oil
soy similar occasion for many years) separated. Nearly
400 persons sat down to dinner, amt sillily were obliged;
for want of room, to dine b..10w stairs.

...►..