The National Register.
London, England, 1820-11-05 00:00:00

THE NATIONAL REGISTER

the Bill might probably have; to view it not only as a
of justice., but as one of expediency. If any douthe last
doubt existed on the minds of their Lordships—if there was any
deficiency in the evidence, the benefit ought to he thrown int* tits
sea!e fur the defendant. (Hear, beat.)
. . . . . _

Lonl REP-ERDAL E said tie had examined the depositions Of
all the witnesses, and he had no doubt that pio.if in this case was
full and absolute. Hating read the evidence from beginning to
end, the imp :vision on his mind was, that the case was as hurl)
proved as any case ever was in the Courts of Justice, in which
there was coutradictery evidence. The Noble Lord, after an
ingenious encomium on the evidence of Nlajocci and Dumont, of
both of whom, he said that be thought them entitled to credit,
and gave them credit. he proceeded to consider the proceeding
in a constitutional point of view. The first Act of Settlement,
excluding Roman Cacholica from the Succession, was a Bill of
Pains and Penalties, inasmuch as it operated against a number
of persons who professed the Roman Catholic Religion. How
could bi said a Bill of Pains and Penalties was unconstitutional 7
The Constitution established in 1681 was supported and cemented
by such Bills. The Noble and Learned Lord contended, that it
was the only course left fur the adoption of Parliament. The
Queen Consort was not a personal but a political character; her
situation was political, and a legislative proceeding was best
applied to the case. It had been said that the Bill had excited
discontent, that, however, was no ground to induce the House to
relinquish their proceedings; on the contrary, it ought rather to
stimulate their Lordships to pass the Bill to the Commons, leav-
ing that body to dispose of it as they might think fit. The
Noble and Learned Lord concluded, by supporting the Bill of
Pains and Penalties, at four o'clock, when the House adjourned.
TWENTY-SlXill DAY OF THE DEFENCE.
♦RIUA Y, NOV. 3.
The Lord Chancellor took his seat on the Woohack at
the usual hour, and the names having been called over,

Lord GROSVENOR rose and adclreAsed the House.
Having, he said, attended to the vast body of evidence in
this case, to the speeches of Counsel at the Bar, and the
eloquence displayed yesterday by Noble Lords upon the
merits of the Hill, lie had to declare, in the face of God
and his country, that lie did not see that those changes
against the Queen which had been so cruelly awl so um•
liciously accumulated, were at all substantiated. He
thought it a matter of conscience—as his Lordship hoped
. .

for mercy hereafter—to sitter this opinion, now that 'the
Bill had nndergone such full consideration in reel),
point! Influenced by this conviction, he felt himself
ender the necessity of declaring non-exislent to the second
reading of this Bill. Upon the tisibilgence of the House
he should lay claim for a considerable time, while he en-
tered into a statement of his reasons for determining to
trete as lie lied intimated upon this occasion. Their Lord.
skips had heard frum the Counsel on the part of the
Crown, most eloquent speeches. They had beard from
the Noble and Learned Lord un the woolsack, and from
two other Lords, who had taken so enerzetic a part in
favour of the Bill, very powerful ellusious to support of
Ike charges against tier Majesty; red it was greatly to be
regretted that the sudden tedispientiou of 1111 Noble and
Learned Friend (Erskine) had caused an interruption to
Ike poises lot appeal to their Lordships, which had been
commenced yesterday in favuur of Ow Queen. After all
those rift/nisi considerable prejudice must hare been
sed m these Lordships' meads, and lie felt alarmed at
Use task lie was dimwit io trona is coosiderai 1111 l
et bus. own Maui vat y to ColliClld against such row raid
The !louse viola I iesorinber that the Nook- and
Learned Lord on the woolsack lied declared. that he
would hold the balance ut.Josiite equally is, his hands, and
-lb. House was caned upon to VIC Ilse their power wills
the same heeling. (clear, hear.)—Tile Noble Elf' then
"prteceeded to csaninent us the evideuse. IVith respect to
the stridence at C4ll.liiiie, his LuriPhip said, it had been
must clearly cuniradicted by sueusitestibte evidence, and
abisough she Noble Lord gave up this part of the charges,
yet lie reminded by s lying, that the cloak in ties bed was
a must susitiediusi cucusustancr. But was it slut possible
that some of the Grimm*, the Berstetts, who were de.
ref limit as g count the rooms with such lilacs it), the
moment the Piiiicess had quitted them—was it nut possi-
ble that they might have put the cloak in the bed, in order
so co inisnate her Royal Highness i—Their Lordship need
not be told wheat a powerful instrument the handkerchief
was in the hands of logo to ruin Deedemoma; and were
their Lordships sure there were no /ago's in this cause t
The very suspicion that there might be some ought to
operate in favour of the Queen. There was so much con-
fusion and contradiction in the evidence gives, on this
Biil, that it was difficult to come at the truth. It hail been
sail that Bergann was sepaiated from his wile ; there
was nothing vet), remarkable in this; but it appeared to
be only a separation of conveidence, and nut one of want
olaffection. Another circumstance had been dwelt upon
very minutely—that Bergami had gained great possess
sions ; dust after the intrigue load taken place, he rude hi
power and pride; end that all the respect he lied formerly
paid to her Royal Highness was at au cud ; but their Lord
ships would find, on looking at the whole of the cvidetice,
that Bergand nut wily treated the Princess with guest
respect, but also every person connected wills her. Shang'.
wets the accusations made against the tau; t ; one at-
tempt had heels musk to wore her enniiurltly from the
fact of Bergasisi cussing to the carriage, while teavelliug,
and taking firer a bottle of wine, which she readily gave
him. The Noble Earl then eimirested the witnes‘es: such
set he had never sees. assembled tug, illcf as those biought
in support of the Bill, slur a more luso:risible body than
those her the Quern, who gave their evidence whit that
readitiess and ingentionsuess, which was the strongest
;noel ul the truth of iheir testimony. The unl:: wiinceses
on the part of the 11111 entitled to any notice were Captains
Biiggs and Pet:hell. Captain Briggs had given a sit olig
test imuisy in favour ut the Queen. lie declared
Mgt he had seen sin impropriety in the conduct of tier
Royal Highness while on board the Lerialliass, awl yet
their Lordships would find hruro Capt. itrigivi's evidence,
that it was utmost impossible ass uslultet oils intercuinse
could have taken place without Isis knowing ut it. The
Nuule Lord agent adverted to the le ejiidgiiielit of the
Quern's s ate, by tlir exclusion of her hajesty's aunt. I's oin
the Liuirgy. lie had Is..asd it repotted. lie did not know
Iww truly, that when the Linn ey was ea, ried by the Alch-
bi•hop
ut Centel linty to the hang, it wits the King nl2O
all lir\ Oust she name of her Alsiciity —(llene. ite
slid not Ids uge 1 -ell tut list is ii,, I it, st,,tement,"bist
it " condoned the Noble Lout, " 1 i.a,l been the Ai
shop of eassicrbisry us, such All laugh-
-14.0.-1 a olik; bare thrown the Litiligy in his 31ajesiy's
leer, beluse I world liiive lived 104 fly to sit h • Ilf.lUd
tpuu the Lon, arttla ass ottii,ige 011 sub sued Isee•
tusuity! It I had been the Load C11411e1.1101, called upon
to cuu6uu die outrage, I would rather have trampled the
seals of office under my Net than love conseeted to so
dishoisoutable all act! The Noble Lord proceeded to say,

that be knew not what alight be the event of the present
proceedings ; bet be thought there were sloes both la
the natural and moral world, of great and Imusinent
clinger. Their Lordships would remember that when the
Attorney-General, in his opening charge, uttered that foul
and abominable charge against her Majesty, the evidence
iii support of which had so completely failed, the Sun
experienced an almost total eclipse; but that on the de-
fence being commenced, that glorious luminary seemed
to east its rays with au unusual Hood of splendour over
their Lordships. In the moral world, clouds were col-
lecting charged with thunder—yes, with thunder, because
if their Lordships did pass the bill, they would disgust
all the sound part of the community—they would render
them discontented, and an easy prey to factions and evil
disposed men. What had created all this sensation f A
breath had created it, and a breath could destroy it. Lek
their Lordships only throw oat this detestable Bill ; thee,
indeed, there would be rejuicing throughout the country;
nor in this country alone, for from our shores the note of
joy would extend to France, and across time Pyrenees I
His Lordship conjured the House—on his knees he would conjure
them—to judge of the case of this unfortunate, this unquestion-
ably. long oppressed and persecuted woman—this generous, mag-
nanimous, and liberal person, who hal been agonised in a
rowdier not to be described by the institution of these pioceedings
—that they would do by her as if the case were their own, or as if
if it were a wife or dearest daughter on whom they were sitting
in judgment —(II is Lordship sat down amid loud cheers.)
Lord HATE WOOL) from the Ministerial Gallery now ad-
dressed their Lordships. After listening to the whole evidence
Pproduced, I shall shortly state the general imprewaun which it
as made on to, mind. I conceive that much of the evidence
has been contradicted, that much of it rests on loose grounds.
but other pans of it, I am sorry to say, stand" on a muds
stronger foundation ; and, on the whole. the impression of ja an
my Mind is, to create at least a strong suspicion on the subject of
our enquiry.—But when I find that the evidence depended on in
support of this enquiry is foreign, and that it has been obtained.
not to say improperly. but by extraordinary considerations—
when I consider too the impossibility of having points which
rest on foreign testimony, cleared up in the way Mien might be
done in an ordinary lieglish trial. I must confess that some de.
gree of do abt is lett on any mind. The Noble Lord, after some
turther observations, concluded a speech which appeared to make
a great impression on the House, by repeating that he felt lawart
boned to Sate against the Bill.
Lord UONOUGHAIORE now rose. After a few observations
in answer to Lord Halewood, he proceeded to continent on the
speech of Earl Grosvenor, and made an impotent attempt to turn
it into ridicule. He concluded by declaring his determination to
vote for the second reading.
Earl GREY.—" My Lords, it is with some degree of
reluctance that I rise et the present moment, as I was
'mite's to hear the arguments of the Noble Lords oppo-
site in favour of this Bill of Pains and Penalties. But,
my Lou als, the attention I have paid to this subject has so
tar exhausted me, that were I longer to delay addressing
your Lordships, I fear I could not do it with any degree
of justice to the cause, or satisfaction to myself I will
therefore now state the reasons why I etall vote against
the second reading of the bill. At the commencement of
these proceeding., I stated nay objections to the principle
and policy of Pam* and Penalties. They are so übjece
Ito natale art their manse, anal so unconstitutional in their
practice, that ituthisig but the most urgent state necessity
could justify resulting *Es mulct's ; and nu such state neces-
sity has been proved in the present instance. The Noble
Earl then proceeded, in MI eloquent strain, to combat the
arguments el the Lord Chancellor, that a Bill oh Pains
and Penalties afforded more advantage to the licensed
than a trial by impeachment, Having declared Isis olsjcee
lion as to the mode of proceediug at the commencement,
lie ilieu determined to unclad Its the case as it would be
made out by evidence, lie felt that if such a case was
made out as would justify the degredation of the Queens
he must then consider himself bound either to vote foe
the Bill, or to see her Majesty sit on the throne tainted
and disgraced. But the CAMS to be made out w as. that her
Majesty's conduct had been so licentious and disgiacend,
as to Wing dishonour oar the Sovereign, total to be • public
scandal to the country. The case to be made out tor the
bill was not one of simple adultery, but of gross and lie
mations conduct, which equally disgraced the Sovereign
and the Country. Nothing short of snch a case could
justify the bill. " Aud how (said the Noble Lord) was it
to be proved ? by witnesses beyond all suspicion ? (Hear,
hear). In proportion as the rank of the individual was
high and illustrious—in proportion as the penalties were
severe—and its proportion as the proceeding was novel,
and contrary to law and justice—in such proportion ought
the ease to be etude out by evidence beyond all taint
above all sitspiciuu! If, at the couclusiou of the Atter.
ney-General's speech, we could have foreseen that the
charges at Naples, which were the f Whoa of all the
charges, would have been ab.sodulted—if we had fore-
bees' 11141 charges were to rest oar the evidence of Majoccl
and Dumont—if we lied foreseen that the charges at
'fileste, Carlsrulic, anal at 041110 a, would have been re-
" juislied, could we ter a iiiii mein have believed that we
should ever have been called to a second reading of this
bill On all these chatgr., the advocates for the bill no
longer relied ; the whole of the chat gem hail dwindled
down Of the cuuduct of her Royal Highuess dining her
voyage un board the pulacca—(llear, hear I)—Wuuld any
man lay his banditti its heart and say, that it lie had fore.
seen tots was the whale that would be ',rased, that he
would her a moment have mite& Wiled the proceeding ?
tly certainty and Inuit anomie, could such a hill as this be
decided. How then stood that real face o; the case
Savie there were deposed to, which if esiehltsised 641,
fictorily—if the uititesbes 'es whom they rested were
worthy of cm chit—could leave oto doubt las the ca• If
niter Lordships could eclieve alajtieci—if they could be-
lieve Ditie:allt —if they could 'telt eve Sarelii, there would
he an teal to the rase; the tact of a,lailta• my must be held
'• he clearly and decisively prove.!. Bea ;lieu Lordships
had heat ti it acknowledged, :y the anthers said supporters
of the bill, that note intsiantiteg all the facts to which
stew[ %1111,-FSCS bad Malan. Will am Aida tiht,iie guilt coma J
he tide's la al, yet, if they Meta atop:ultra by other
ear uoistithees, and by not another, tit .y caul l nut jusitty
the House. is passing;this Bill at Patio P:otai.je.,—
If he was sating ass Juryman, 1.1 could nzesr on such a ground
venture on a vests art . 11C7.: has Luld.hip prOaVthal to
Ctllli.Wat :it Aline length ea those ;arts of tae evidence u.
joixt, Satechi, end Dumont, in wines[ they latd tither flatly call•
iradictea meal-circa, or were met by the flattest contra:het:ons
from other pro -oas of ultimo. seastble r.t.o 4.0 tune 11
left tie Qa,c„ :,,utaa atom art proof, nut the it:tallest imptizatiois
of imp:wort cenduct had been tendered against hes Slajesty.
(Repeated cheers Iron' all parts art tie ileuse.) Nut u-tiy were
all or dean discarded servants, but two of man ALM .11 par ses-
sion lit the charg.:a against the Queen were true) of cents •.
whi.ds would have made it the height of madness in bet Majesty
(For aweineatites are page Sat)

-4

k

i
4