The Sun.
London, England, 1855-01-30 00:00:00

• placed with a great army in operation in the field, confusion
to a certain degree would not arise. With regard to many
criticisms which have been made on the conduct of the war, I
think it is enough to ask you to see what foundation they
stand upon. We have been told that we ought to have gone
to Odessa, and passed the winter there, instead of at Sebas•
topol. You might as well tell an army that came to invade
England to pass the winter at Brighton. What would have
been the condition of an English army at Odessa, an open and
unfortified town, while Russia had all her military.resourcee
within reach, and when Sebastopol would have been ren-
dered still more difficult to take? If hon. gentlemen had
called in question the object of the war, the house might
have justly impugned the policy of Government in regard to
the operations of the war, and we should have been prepared
to go into our defence on that question ; but I must humbly
think that the course which has been pursued islikely to lead
to a most dangerous and inconvenient precedent for Parlia-
mentary proceedings. We have been told that that which is
now proposed is similar in principle to what took place in
regard to the Walcheren expedition. Why, over and over
again the difference between the two cases has been explained;
The inquiry into the Walcheren expedition was Made by the
whole house, and not by a delegated authority upstairs ; but
the great difference consists in this, ghat that expedition was
over—that the persons to be examined were here —that it
was an inquiry into the conduct of Government, and not
into the conduct of an army—the latter an inquiry which
cannot be conducted unless you bring home the parties yon
wish to examine, or unless you send a committee of safety to
control the operations 3f the army abroad. The question we
have to consider is one of the most important that has almost
ever occupied the attention of Parliament. It is not because
it involves the existence or overthrow of Government, but
because you are about to set a precedent, dangerous if you
carry it out, and disappointing to the public if you let it
drop, and use it merely as an instrument to overthrow the
Government of the day. If this house thinks that this Go-
vernment is not worthy of the support of Parliament, if this
house wishes to see the Government placed in other hands,
the more constitutional course would be to have affirmed at
once that the Government no longer possesses the confidence
of Parliament, and that they ought to resign their power
into the hands of their Sovereign. Such a course would have
been simple and direct, and, if adopted, would have led to
no inconvenient precedent, would have been concurrent with
the principles of the constitution, and in unison with the
sentiments of this house, and the sooner it is adopted
the better for all parties concerned. But I must
say, that the course now pursued is one which
will do no honour to the house if adopted, and is one which I
think will not only set a bad example here, but will be at•
tended with inconvenient results even abroad. The country
is now engaged in a great and arduous contest, and whatever
may be the decision of the house on the Government as it now
stands before you, I trust that our dissensions may not be ag-
gravated by the overthrow of the Government, and that,
whoever may succeed that Government, we shall not exhibit
to Europe the lamentable spectacle of a country interrupting
a great national struggle by mere party squabbles, but that
Parliament will take example from the nation it represents,
and, as that nation is unanimous in its determination that the
war shall be carried on with vigour and energy, as that nation
is convinced of the justice of the cause, and resolved that war
shall not terminate until all the objects for which it was un-
dertaken are secured, in the same way, I trust that, whatever
may be the decision of this nignt, when this house shall have
settled as to what Government it will give its confidence, it
will then give its support to that Government, and enable it
to carry on the war with determination, and that we shall not
show to the world that a constitutional Government is less
able to conduct national affairs than Governments constituted
on a different principle, and that we shall not degrade the
Parliamentary principle by showing that we are not capable
of sustaining the difficulties of a great crisis, and that a nation
can only show energy, consistency, and vigour when de-
prived of those constitutional representative forms which
have been the pride, the boast, and the glory of this country,
(Cheers.)
Mr. MUNTZ said that if the house took the advice of the
noble lord who had just sat down, and consulted the wishes of
the people of this country, they would at once turn out the
Government. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HORSMAN sought a hearing for the purpose of ex-
plaining
why he had hitherto supported the Government, but
after several vain attempts he was obliged to resume his
seat.

Mr. T. MINCOMBE had one question to ask the hon. and
learned member for Sheffield. The house had been told that

if this inquiry were granted it would form a most dangerous
precedent, and that the main object of the motion was the
displacement of the Government. Now there could not be a
greater fraud committed on the country than if the motion
were made with such an object. The question then he had to
ask the hon. and learned member for Sheffield was—lf the
house conceded this inquiry, was it or was it not his inten-
tion to nominate the committee up stairs to let the people
know who the parties were who were really to blame in the
recent disastrous events ? Such knowledge was due to the
house, to the memory of those who had fallen, and to those
labouring classes from whom we had drawn the rank and file
of our army, and who, moreover, were not represented in
that house. (Hear.) He trusted the hon. member would let
the people know that his object was not merely to displace
the gentlemen on the Treasury bench, or merely to shuffle the
political cards, for if he proposed, or the house agreed to the
vote with any other motive, their decision would only be a
sham and a disgrace to Parliament. (Hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK—Sir, I will answer, as it is my duty to do,
the question as freely and frankly as it has been put. When
I framed this resolution, I certainly did intend to carry out
the inquiry as stated in the words before you ; during the
present debate I have neither seen nor heard anything that
has led me to change my opinion. (Cheers.) I abide by zny
determination, and, if the house will grant the committee, I
promise fairly to carry it out. (Hear.) The objections to my
motion, when stript of their verbiage, amount to this :
First, it is said, if I carry it I shall paralyse the Government ;
next, that I shall render inefficient these departments of the
Government ; and, thirdly, that I shall interfere with the com-
mand of the army. Let us consider the circumstances under
which the inquiry is proposed. The Ministers themselves ad-
mit that the dim.et...: to which the motion relates have oc-
curred, and they acknowledge that the condition of the army
is—in the words of the noble lord the member for London—
" heartrending." (LJear, hear.) This house has given to the
Ministry power, an unlimited command of money—in fact,
no demand has been made on this house that has not been
willingly granted, and they had the power given them to
supply all that was required for the army. What is the con-
dition of that army ? and what is the condition of the Minis-
try? Paralyse them ! Have they not acted under a con-
tinual paralysis ? (Hear.) Can they do worse than they have
done ? Judging of the future from the past, can the resolu-
tion, if carried, convey into the departments of the Govern-
ment a single degree more of ignorance, incapacity, and inap-
titude ? (Cheers.) The Ministers have not onlycourse of
acknowledgedl
lkla
debate that they have placed on the shoresof Baa
the State of the army, but have stated in the this
va
stores sufficient for a larger army than ours. In this state-
ment, made by the Secretary of War, to be accepted as an
excuse by this house? He says the whole distance fronithis
country to the camp before Sebastopol is 3,006 miles;; ho
3,004 are miles easily got over, but the last six are insuper-
ably difficult. Shall this be said to this country, with its
net-work of railways spread over it, and in which exertion
of every kind is a part of the habit of the country ; in which
exertion is made a thing of everyday occurrence, and in which
(here the hen. member became somewhat confused, but soon
resumed) —I will now pass on to address the Opposition. The
country has hitherto had confidence in this Administration,
we have conceded to them power and the destiny of a great
army, and added to that the,destinies of this great country.
The Ministry has failed the people. (Hear.) Their confidence
is now placed in this house—and are we to fail them I In-
quiry is before us—it is in our hands—there has been a con-
fession of incapacity on the part of the Ministry—the army
is melting away ; and shall it be said that this house refuses
to make an inquiry because there is some constitutional or
technical point urged against it ? Let the house remember,
if they refuse to grant this inquiry, that they will be an-
swerable for any disaster that may hereafter occur. (Hear,
hear.) The people will say, an inquiry was proposed—a
confession of incapacity was made. You refused inquiry;
you abdicated your functions, and you arc answerable.
(Hear, hear.) I hope the house will not abdicate its func-
tions. We are told to wait till the expedition is over; but
that will not be till our army is lost. I say—lnquire. Save our
army ; the confidence of the people is in this house, and I
hope you will not disappoint their expectations. (Cheers.)

ThC house then divided on the motion for a Committee.
Tho numbers were—

▪ 305
• 148 •
Majority against the Government -157
The announcement of the numbers was received with a
murmur of incredulity, but without any of the cheering usual
on such occasions.
Mr. S. HERBERT appeared at the bar with a supplemen-
tary army estimate, which was brought up and ordered to lio
upon the table.
The Government notices which stood next on the paper
were then postponed to Friday, and some unopposed returns
having been moved for, the house adjourned at 25 minutes to
2 o'clock.

Ayes
Noes