The Sun.
London, England, 1855-02-17 00:00:00

success to the factions conduct of those who sit opposite
to them, but to the recognition by the country of their
total volt of the qualitic3 wh;•:, ••. • ,ud
winch the country at Thin moment 1, iu need,of.
. RICH vose, amidsl loud calls for Mr. Roebuck. He
begged to remind the right hon. gentleman who hail just sat
down that the persons whom he had called unparalleled
blunderers were about to be put by Lord Derby over his
(Mr. Disraeli's) head. He was one of those who had voted
for the inquiry, for he was determined that the inquiry
should then have taken place ; but it must be remembered
that he had said that, if an inquiry could be instituted
which would elicit the truth, and which would be a substi-
tute for what every one knew to be the cumbrous ma-
chinery of the House of Commons, he would not insist on
a committee. The noble lord (Lord Palmerston) had ex-
plained that various commissions would be sent out to the
spot, where the greatest mismanagement had occurred,
who would investigate and make reports. \He hoped these
reports would be submitted to the house. On the strength
of their being so submitted, and believing that if this were
done they would be in possession of the required informa-
tion quicker than it could be obtained from a committee,
he would accept them as the alternative proposed by the
noble lord, 'which he was sure was for the interest of the
country. If the noble lord made these arrangements, he,
for one, was willing to place confidence in him, and he felt
that the disparagements of the right hon. gentleman who
had just sat down were unjust, and would be proved un-
founded.

Mr. ROEBUCK—Sir, the committee for which I moved,
and which I intend to name next Thursday, has already
been decided upon by the house, andthe argument addnced
by the noble lord to persuade the house to rescind the re-
solution is that a new Ministry was now entering upon
office for the purpose which he stated just now, that is to
say, that the house having determined a fortnight ago that
the Ministry was totally inefficient for the purpose, that
the army had dwindled away, that disaster and calamity
had befallen us in the Crimea, and that in consequence an
inquiry was requisite, the noble lord now comes forward
and asks the house—to use the words of the right hon.
gentleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli)—to stultify itself. He
asks this house to rescind the resolution, to retire from its
advantage, and to allow the present Ministry to do that which
the late Ministry was confessedly unable to do. Oa what
grounds does the noble lord make these demands ? That
there is a new Ministry; but are there new Ministers!
No, but the cards are in new hands, which, in spite of the
eulogy of the noble lord, and the qualities which they are
said to possess, and which I suppose are not improved in a
fortnight, the house decided were totally inefficient for the
purposes into which I proposed to the hoax° to inquire. Now
the noble lord supposes that there is something antagonistic
between the committee sitting and the Government. The
threat of inquiry has brought about these revolutions.
The inquiry may jog them on, and we shall get further re-
forms by the inquiry, if it is carried out by this house.
Sir, a committee which has published a blue-book on the
Civil Service states that any Administration is totally un-
able to reform the service, and they propose an Act of Par-
' liament to do so. Now I propose that the House of Com-
mons should assist Government, for I believe Government
totally unable to carry out such an inquiry as is requisite.
The Prime Minister, when he is pat into power, finds per-
manent officers upon whose assistance he has materially to
rely. Now, nothing but the power of the House of Com-
mons can enable the political chief to overcome the yid
inertice of the departments ; and therefore I propose, in
spite of the noble lord, to continue the proposition on
Thursday next which I have on the books, and I shall move
the names of the committee. In so doing I really believe
that I shall aid the noble lord to remodel the institutions,
and to infuse vigour and pith into the Administration of
the country. The House of Commons will lend to the
noble lord its assistance to obtain the pith and vigour which
he will not be able to obtain by his own unaided power.
Mr. MUNTZ said he would not consent to sultify him-
self, for he had voted for the inquiry in the belief that it
would materially benefit the administration of the public
service. He still retained that opinion, and if anything
were required to justify it, it war the words of the noble
lord that night. He (Mr. Muntz) wanted to know what
would have been done if that vote had not been passed by
the House of Commons ? The House of Commons had
done its duty, and put an end to a Ministry which refused
all reforms whatever, and he believed that if the house did
not do its duty now it would sink to a low ebb in the esti-
mation of the country.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said the noble lord, who appeared
for the first time at the head of the Government, had told
the house that Government would be their committee of
inquiry, but they had already condemned Government, and
they wanted to have nothing to do with the Government,
who would only stifle the inquiry. They wanted to inquire
into the conduct of Government. The noble lord had men-
tioned certain reforms, but the men who wore to institute
those reforms were the men who had already been con•
demned. He asked where was the real political change in
the Government ? It appeared exactly the status quo ante
Roebuck. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord stood higher in
public favour than Lord Aberdeen, who was supposed not
to be qualified to carry on the war, and to have a friend-
ship of forty years' standing for the Emperor Nicholas,
whereas the noble lord is said to hate the Czar, and to de-
-1 light in war—(hear, and laughter)—and this persuasion
I had placed him in his present position. He (Mr. T. Dun-
combe) did not think the noble lord had made any reflec-
tions on Lord Derby. Lord Derby's conduct had been
wise, patriotic, and prudent in not attempting to make an
Administration on the old terms. Then came the noble
lard the member for the city of London. The noble vis-
count was ready to join him—(laughter)—but the noble
lord had been unfaithful to his colleagues and to the house,
which had received him as its leader for two sessions,
without an official responsibility, and he ought to have
been able to present a better case for his desertion of his
post than he had doner _
on the presentei,,h
oco oo causioonf lordHe had(Mr.
failed, aid he, for one, should have been much disappointed
if the noble lord had succeeded. The noble viscount had
explained the services which were to be entruSted to Lord
l'aninure, as the substitute for the Duke of Newcastle .
They had had some experience of Lord Panmure, and he
believed that he was the worst of the two. The noble
lord the member for the city of London seemed to think
that it was necessary that the Secretary of War should be
of
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amhie House
idohd.ed Lidoo
Lord
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think on s t
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d should be a man
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vigour and mind. The war was to be carried on
with great vigour and energy by the new Ministry,
but the noble lord had not explained what he meant by
vigour and energy in carrying on the war. The words
were in everybody's mouth, but nobody could !explain
them. Now he (Mr. Duncombe) thought that carrying
on a war with vigour was to defeat the enemy's army, to
destroy his fleets, to devastate his country, to bombard his
cities, to raze his fortifications, to blockade his ports, and
to destroy his trade. This was what ho called carrying on
a war with vigour and !energy, and what the people of
England understood by carrying on a war with vigour and
energy. Of course to do this there must be an army and a
fleet. There was a magnificent fleet, but they were told
that it was "badly manned, and worse disciplined," and a
gallant admiral had made that statement. All he could
say was, that if they were to judge of the insubordination
of the fleet by the conduct of its admiral, it must be in a
sad state. It had been said by some parties that there
were only 12,000 or 13,000 of our troops before Sebastopol,
whilst the Chancellor of the Exchequer estimated the
number at 30,000. Now that was a fair matter of inquiry,
and would of course be investigated by the committee. He
did not blame the noble lord for attempting to discharge
the order for the committee. No doubt the order was an
inconvenient one, and the noble lord said as much the
other night when he (Mr. Duncombe) put a question to
the hon. and learned member for Sheffield. But the
matter was now out of the hands of the hon. and learned
gentleman, and the nomination of the committee rested

with the house. (Hear, hear.) The motion for the
pointment was considered by the Government in the light
of a vote of censure, but he (Mr. Duncombe) did not vote
for it as a vote of censure. He intended his vote to imply
mismanagement and distrust. (Laughter.) The moment
for censure had not yet arrived. Inquiry was needed, and
censure, probably, might follow thati nquiry. If the commit-
tee should perform its duty it would point nut the real de-
linquents. If they should turn out to be military men, let
them be brought to a court-martial and tried for neglect of
duty. He did not believe that so much blame attached to
parties at home as to parties at the seat of war. In his opi-
nion the commissary-general and the quartermaster-general
had ill supported Lord Raglan, aad if that was the case they
ought to be triedby court-martial and punished. (Hear.) If
they could throw the blame on parties at home let them be

brought to account, whoever they might happen to be. It
had been said that the projected inquiry would impede the
Government reforms which were now going on. But why
should it do so ? The inquiry was to be into the past, and
the:contemplated reforms might at once be proceeded with.
(Hear, hear.) With regard to the negotiations for peace,
he sue posed something would be heard from Lord J. Rus-
sell after his visit to Paris and Berlin. He believed that
the people of this country meant one thing, and that the
Government meant another. The people had entered in-
to the war in the hope that the arrangement made at the
congress of 1815 would be revised. (Hear.) If Lord John
Russell were now present, he would ask the noble lord not
to forget, in accordance with the wishes of the people of
this country, the wrongs of Poland, the wrongs of Hun-
gary, and the aspirations of that priest-ridden country,
Italy. (Hear.) The people expected these questions to be
mooted. The house had heard nothing from the First Lord
of the Treasury about Sebastopol. If Sebastopol was to
remain a fortress in the hands and under the control of
:Russia, did any ono suppose tha a permanent peace could
be established. That would never be the case if that fortress
was allowed to remain to overawe the East and every coun-
try that might come in contact with Russia. (Hear.) He
hoped the House of Commons would say on the part of this
country, and that the Emperor of France would say on the
part of his country, that they would never rest satisfied
until the standards of England and France should be found
floating triumphantly over the ruins of Sebastopol (cheers)
—and that the Autocrat of all the Russias—this King of
Poland, this heaven-born champion of the orthodox race—
would be at list compelled to acknowledge and confess that
his hypocrisy, tyranny, and lawless ambition must for
ever cease and determine. (Cheers.)
Mr. HORSMAN thought the Conservatives were so
fearful of being thought factious that they had not per-
formed their duty to the nation by offering a atronger op-
position to the late Government, the history of which, he
feared, would be one of the darkest pages in the annals of
England. His own side of the house was also to blame for
the over-confidence it had accorded to the Government,
until awakened by the dreadful calamity in the Crimea.
He thought Parliament could not safely recede from the
position it took up three weeks ago, and should keep this
inquiry in its own hands.
Mr. E. BALL said the country never would be satisfied
if the house consented to rescind the resolution it had
some to.
Mr. PHINN supported the snggestion of Lord
Palmerston to postpone the operation ;of the committee
until they should see how the Government acted.
Mr. LIDDELL said it was a disgrace to this country
that almost the existence of our army depended upon the
assistance rendered by their allies in the way of food and
clothing. He contended strongly for the necessity of pur-
suing the inquiry.
Mr. VANSITTART expressed his satisaction of the ap-
pointment of the noble lord the member for the city of
London (Lord J. Russell) to a mission lo Vienna.
Mr. LAING urged that the recent change in the Admi•
nistration did not indicate such an alteration in the minis-
terial policy as held out an assurance of more vigorous
management or warranted the house in rescinding their
late vote.
Lord EBRINGTON expressed his satisfaction with the
measures of invigoration announced by the Prime Minister
as being already planned or in execution.
Mr. DANBY SEYMOUR had hoped it ae recent change