The National Register.
London, England, 1821-04-08 00:00:00

THE NATIONAL RI;GISTEIt

Mr. COKE hoped the gentlemen of Scotland would
' support the bill, and submit the question of inquiry here-
after. if the land-owners would unite, they would teach
the minister what lie ought to do; if they enabled him to
' make an inroad amongst the country gentlemen, then
would he do what he pleased. He was favourable to the
inquiry asked for by Scotland, and would support it ; but
as to the bill, he (Mr. C.)showld support it, but it did not
go far enough to afford effectual relief.
The order was then read, and Mr. Western moved that
the bill be now read a second time.
Mr. P. GRENFELL said, be should not oppose this
bill with the view of supportiug ministers; but, thiuling
that there was and ought to be a real sinking fund, lie hail
voted for the new duties of 1819. He had done so, that
their finances might Le pot into a useful position.
Lord CASTLEKEAGH defended the system of finance
adopted in 1819, of which this tax formed a part. The
object of that system was to support public credit, and
to inspire confidence, nut only at home, but abroad also.
A departure from that system now would be most inju-
rious ; it would destroy our credit abroad and confidence
al home. To repeal this tax would be to depart from
that system, and fur what purpose ? to scatter about a
million and a half over tile country by way of relief, a
measure which must fail of producing any beneficial
effect.
Mr. COKE denounced that excessive taxation which
produced all the ills under which the country was la-
bouring. England was peecisely in that state to which Mr.
Fan had predicted her fall; and her calamitous condition--
which he (Mr. Coke) almost regretted he had lived to see—
was owing entirely to the system introduced by Mr. Pitt.
Much was said of the necessity of keeping faith with the
public creditor ; and certainly he should be the last unto to
dispute that neces.dty ; but the house was so much alarmed
at tile bare mention of breach of faith : why, when had the
house been known to keep its faith? (Hear, hear.) lie
(Mr. Coke) had no faith in the house at all; and the
country had little faith; and the noble lord opposite (Lord
Castlereagh) knew it. The noble lord carried things as be
thought fit; be governed the country single-banded (hear) ;
—.certainly single-handed ; fur the noble lord was one way,
and the people were the other. (Hear, hear.) The noble
lord had told the house that the proposed reduction of the
tux could give no practical relief; but let honourable
members look a little to NCH. lii 1816, barley being then
at eighteeu shillings per quarter, lie(Alr. Coke) had moved
fur the repeal of the war malt tax. The tax was repeultd;
barley immediately attained a reniunirating price, and ou
complaints were heard from the agriculturists until the Chau.
cellor of the Exchequer, among his shifts and his blunders
imposed the duty again. The hon. lumber sat down by
declaring that he should support the bill before the house;
but that be could look only to au entire change of men and
measures fur any thing like substantial benefit to the country.
Mr WESTERN replied.
The gallery was then cleared for a division.— Fur the
second reading, 144—Against it 242—Majority against the
bill, 98.
The other orders being disposed of, the house adjourned
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 4.
There being only 37 Members present at four o'clock, the
House was &War W. to stand adjourned till to-morrow.
THURSDAY, APRIL S.
_ . .

Petitions were presented from the owners and occupiers of
land in Biggleswade, Bedfordshire; and the southern part
of Duvonshire, complaining of agricultaraldistreso. Referred
to the committee.

Sir J. MACKINTOSH gave notice, that on Tuesday
next he should move for leave to bring in a bill to amend
the criminal lass. He should out then bring forward any
statements that were calculated to promote discussion; but
in the event of obtaining leave to bring in such bill, he
proposed to have it printed, and take the discussion on the
second reading on Thursday, May S.
On the motion of Sir H. PARNELL, the Holyhead
Roads Bill was ordered to be re-commiited to.murrow.

Mr. BYNG presented a petitiou from inhabitants of
Highgate against the Highgate and Hampstead Roads' Bill,
and praying to be heard by counsel against the said bill.
Mr. CALVERT moved for an account of the number of
debtors committed to the Borough Compter, as prisoners
fordebt, by the court of requests, fur amuuuts under *Os.—
Ordered.

Mr. HUME gave notice, that on Thursday next he lihoold
move for leave to bring in a bill to disqualify certuill per-
sons having takes in the ordnance department, from holding
seats in the commons' house.

The committee on the Stamp Acts was postponed till to-
morrow.

The Spoiled Stamps Bill was ordered to be committed on
Tuesday nest
GAME LA ws.—Lord CRANBOURNE rose for the pur-
pose of moving fur a committee to take into cousideration
the game laws. He said it was far from bis intention to
trench on the proper privileges of any class; but the present
state of the laws was such as to call fur revision and amend-
ment. lie concluded with nioving fur the committee.
Sir .1. sElittiGHT did not know what the particular
objects of the mover were—but he thuu,.lit aay change would
be for the better. The present game laws were disgracetul
to the country.
Sir J. StIELEY objected to the motion, and moved the
previous question.
Sir J. YORKE would be glad if in any new bill there
WlOl introduced u clause to warrant persons to sell game,
that it might be known where it could be rimmed.
Mr. BAN KES observed that he had nut been aware till
now of the efficacy of the recent law. He was for game
being preserved. It endeared gentlemen of the upper crosses
to their estates; and it made them feel desirous of visiting
their country seats; and it was what separated the upper
from the lower clauses. It gave to the gentlemen of England
an enjoyment that was not possessed by any other giutleineu
in Europe. He must oppose the committee.
Col. WOOD hoped that the house would allow them to
retrace their steps to go to a CollllllllleC—and thus to ascer-
tain the best course of calling useful laws into effect. He
was favourable to Lord Deere's plan—to mak e game private
property, and to legalize the sale of game; or the price of
the certificate might be raised.
Mr. LOCKHART denied that the objects of the noble
lord—as tar as he could understand them—would suppress
poaching, or advance the interests of morality. As to
making game private property, lie knew not how such ob.
jects could ►e accomplished. He thought that it would be
better to let the law. remain as they were, except a detiaite
plan of probable improvement were suggested.
Mr. BENNETT. of Wiltsbi.e, nos favourable to the
plan of making game private property His object was to
make game so cio nit Ilost St would nut lw worth the Wen-
lion of ;maybe's to male viulyat iutugd. uu tire suiiauuding
game.

107

Mr. COKE jun. said, be was mafavourable to the prop,,
sitiou now made, but if a division were pressed he should
vote fur the committee. lie was against making (tame
private property ;it would be productive of mauy mischiefs.
The present laws bad some advantages. They induced
gentlemen to visit end reside on tio•ir estates, and east he
considered a beneficial result. As to putting an end to
poaching, be thought that it was impossible to accomplish
such object.
Lord LOWTHER remarked, that there appeared to be
two objects in view—to legalize the sale of game, sad to
prevent poaching. if game were legalized, he thought
that would be offering an additioual premium; he should
therefore oppose the euminitice.
Mr. HARBORD was favourable to the committee. The
game laws were highly objectionable. They were nut con-
genial to the coustitution. They Were unjust, arbitrary,
and oppresJive; and they produced the
sequences. As to the argument, that such laws sad privi-
le-"es would induce gentlemen to reside on their estates, it
they would not go there but fur the sake of shooting phea-
sants, the country might us vied be a ithuut them. (A laugh.)
Lord CRAMBOURNE replied, alien the gallery was
cleared fur the division.—The numbers were—Ayes MI
N oes 86.

AORICULTURAL HouseTAl.--Mr. CURWEN then
brought forward his motion on this subject. He said, if
this relief could be obtained, It would be most advents.*
geous, and deemed as a very great boon by the farmers.
If this proposition were agreed to, he could not say that
it could afford any very considerable relief to the agricul-
tural interests in general, but to the small farmers It
would be a great and seasonable relief. The tax was an
injudicious one—lt was laying the tax on the plough, and
it fell upon the worst lands; for the best lands did not
require such heavy cultivation. If the chancellor of the
exchequer should torn a deaf ear to hlm, he hoped the
noble lord would consider how the tax operated; it levied
in many instances 51.105. or about one-sixth of the rent.
This tax had no good quality about it; it was cruel, op-
pressive and burdensome. It had no good quality; it had
not the principle which ought to characterize all taxes,
that of falling alike on all. (Hear, hear!) It was also
productive of many grievous complaints and many op-
pressive results. H. mentioned an instance where a man
was surcharged for having accidentally followed a fox-
cheer' which came In contact with the man when travel.
ling along the road with his horse and bags. He felt per-
loaded that the chancellor of the exchequer could easily
find some substitute; at all events, he was persuaded that
there was uo hope of relief except the burdens of the
country were placed on shoulders better able to bear
them. He ridiculed the idea of poor lands been thrown
out of cultivation: how many individnais would also be
thrown out of employ. He added that a great change
was taking place; the monarchs of Europe were beconr*
log the suppliers of grain. The king of Swedeu had ex-
ported much ; he had forwarded much to Holland fur the
purpose of supplying other portions of Europe. He coo--
chided with moving for leave to bring in a bill to repeal
the ditty accordingly.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER and others
opposed the motion; after which it was withdrawn.
The further consideration of the cash payments rein.
lotion bill was deferred to Monday uext.
TIMBLR DUTIAL—Mr. WALLACE brought forward
the question regarding the timber duties. Having moved
that the report of the committee on the timber duties act
be taken into further consideration; lie proposed, that it
be agreed to, and that leave be given to bring in a bill
accordingly.
Sir H. PARNELL proposed an amendment, namely,
that from and after the Ist of January itiSe timber should
be admitted, on paying a duty of 21. snidest., en pay-
ing a duty of 21. Ss. from whatever quarter they might
Come.
Mr. BENNETT urged strongly in favour of an alga.
lization of ditties, and contended, that an advantage was
by the proposition of the right hun. genticiaan (Mr. W.),
improperly given to Russia over Norway and America.—
He proposed to reduce the present ditties of three pounds
one-half, namely, to one pound ten on all timber.
Mr. DOUGLAS could not wholly agree in the propo-
sitions of the committee as laid down by his right bon.
friend. He considered the preference given to American
deals as too great, but a futnre opportunity would occur
to discuss that point. With respect to the other countries
—we certainly had a right to regulate the trade of our
own colonies, but we were not justified in making regu-
lations iaterfering with the trade of their different coon-
tries' and giving one an unfair advantage over another,
which this measure was ealculated to do.
Sir W. RIDLEY reminded the house that they were
not only to consider the interests of the consumer, they
must also recollect those of the grower and shipper. He
thought the duty now proposed was so high, it would
operate as a prohibition.
At this period of the proceedings a considerable degree
of confusion was occasioned by the sodden indisposition
of Mr. Williams, who fainted in the house. 'rise hon.
member res.overecl sufficiently, on being removed to on:
of the committee rooms, to proceed home shortly after in
a carriage.
Sir H. PARNELL withdrew his amendment.
Mr. J. P. GRANT gave notice, that when the report
was brought tip lie would move that it should be re-com-
mitted for the purpose (as we understood) of taking into
consideration the propriety of fixing a duty of 11. ss. on
Baltic deals, to be calculated cubically, and ou Canada
deals 10s. or Iss.

Mr. WALLACE wished the hon. gent. to move his
amendment.

Mr. J. P. GRANT said he was ready to do so sow ;
but lie understood the forms of the house would not per-
mit him.

Tile committee then divided on the question of agree-
ing to the resolutions, when there appeared.—For the
motion 71, against it 24, majority 47.
We understood thht during our absence a second divi-
sion took place, ou a proposition of Sir H. Parnell, for
restricting the operation of any bill that might Ise founded
on the resolutions fur five years, when there appeared.—
For the motion IS, against it 51, majority 36.
On our re-admission to the gallery we found Mr. G.
Bennett making some observations on the juvenile of.
lenders' bill, which, after a few remarks from Mr. T.
Cuurtenay sad Mr. Dugdale, was oidereil to be read a
second time this day Bute months.—Adjourned.
VAIDAY. •PIItIL 6.
The House was summoned to the House of Peers, to hear
the Assent given ls) COMUSISSIVII to eeet.tio
(See Lustis.)
( For rontinnation sts rigs 110.