The Sun.
London, England, 1855-02-24 00:00:00

er were sick. That was all it knew. Members spoke of
these things to Ministers. ',Whey were most eloquent in
defe,nee of etlemselves ; panegyrics upon each other were
unboundiet(Oppoeition cheers)—the defence of their own
red-tapism were distracting ; but when we spoke of the
homeless, starved, frost-bitten army, no pitying word, no
eye afforded one tear. (Cries of Oh, oh, and cheers.) Since
some hon. gentlemen were so positive in their contradictions
let them produce Hansard, and show him one sentence
until Friday last, when the noble lord new at the head of
the Government brought forward this question—show him
one word which ever admitted the evils. The Ministers
positively denied that the state of the army was such as it
was represented to be. (Opposition cheers.) These gen-
tlemen who had recently governed the country, did not
seem at all aware of the real condition into which they had
brought the country. At a moment when negotiations
were going on which could not be suspended without de-
triment to the public service—at a time when any delay
caused additional hardships to our wretched army—at a
time when it was of the utmost importance to be provided
with a strong Government, what were they doing? Either
from their places, or, like spoiled servants,
running away
when the house is on fire and the mistress calls them to
put it out, John won't come unless sill will ; Tom won't
come unless Harry will, and so the house went on burning.
We had beard before of the farce of High Life below Stairs.
This was the tragedy of Low Life acted up-Stairs. (Oppo-
sition cheers.) This was not the worst of it. The Govern-
ment, which had confessedly by sheer incompetence de-
stroyed an enormous army, which had brought the mockery
of Europe upon us, which had produced criticisms upon
our military skill in the German papers, at that very mo-
mentof they advised the Crown to confer the highest mark 1
favour upon the head of that very Government —(cont!nuett
toh
cheeringte
viewsfro of
m the
tthat h
n on Opposition
in
contemptbenches)—imparting, of h
touniversal
ins n l
feeling of the country,
Europe. (Cheers.) He did not deny
and in defiance of
tthheeresewnasse
mucho of all
of danger. Let
by the report
were they te be scared
danger to be apprehended from this committee—(hear)—
butuld be a sham.
S. Herbert) was afraid the committeew
them be taught to avoid it. The right hon. gentleman (Mr
sham ;heconcerned that
need not be in the least onscore.
He (Mr. Drummond) promised him that it should be no
(Hear.) The opponents of the committee raised up ques-
tions
which they knew the committee never intended to
put; and then asked whether the house would entrust such
questions to eleven members. Could they not inquire how
it was that when these active men of nine months' war be-
gan to find out that a waggon train was wanted they made
waggons, but forgot the harness? He should like to know,
at a time the country was running breast high against
French influence, what it would have said if it had thought
the day would have come when 10,000 soldiers should be
fighting in French uniforms, and receiving 10,000 reans
of fresh meat, because there was not brains enotigh inner
Majesty's Ministers to send it out? Could the comm etoo
not find out why the horses were starved, and why the
wood huts remained, no .one knew how long, at Bristol,
and were not long ago still at Southampton? It was into
the civil departments they wanted to inquire. There never
was any intention on the part of his hon. and learned
friend (Mr. Roebuck) of himself, or of any one whom he
had heard his ht n. and learned friend consult as to the for-
mation of the committee, to inquire into anything relating
to the (on Ind of the war; but, as he had already said, he
did think it dangerous, so dangerous that the house (eight
to take the responsibility upon Welt' and give instructions
to the committee. He dial not 'think it ought to be left to
the committee. He might give them many insights into
the dangers. He did not wish to excite their Joha Bullisin
or anti-French foeliogs, but he would appeal to their
honour as gentlemen. They had, wi.oly or unwisely, gone
into a partnership. They had not passed a bill for limit-
ing liability, and it was not fair or honest of them to in-
quire into anything but what related to themselves. They
had no right to make the misconduct of their own Govern-
ment an excuse for inquiring into that of France. There-
fore, he thought that anything of this sort ought in Rome
way, either by an understanding with the Government or
by instructions from the house, to be provided against.
Lord SEYMOUR had voted against the committee, and
he adhered to the opinion he then expressed. He consi-
dered that inquiry would be at this time fraught with
great inconvenience to the public service. It would be
injurious to the army in the Crimea, and very embarras-
sing in regard to those preparations which we ought to be
making for the campaign in the spring. (Hear, hear.)
But he understood that the Government acceded to the
committee, and having been asked by a member of the
Government to allow his name to stand upon it, he felt it
his duty to do so. He di 1 that after consultation with his
hen. friend the member for Coventry (Mr. Ellice), who,
agreed with him in all he said as to the inconvenience of
the inquiry, and as io its danger, unless it were very care-
fully guided either by instructions from the house'or by
its own good sense—a matter which, with the strong feel-
ing existing in the country, would be very difficult to ac-
complish. At this moment we ought to be making pre-
parations for the spring; campaign ; but our military de-
partment s—the War-office, the office of the Secretary at
War, the Horse-Guards, the Ordnance, the Commissariat, 1
the medical department—would not be looking to the ap-
proaching campaign, but would be making every exertion
to defend themselves against the inquiry of the coremitee.
(Hear.) He felt as strongly as any one could the difficul-
ties which this inquiry would impose upon the public ser-
vice, and he also felt that, if there were to be an inquiry,
it must in justice to the feelings of their friends and rela-
tions in this country—in justice to the late Ministers
whose characters were impugned—and in compliance with
the general wishes of this country, it must be a most care-
ful and searching inquiry.
Mr. LO WE was anxious to state to the house a few of
the reasons which weighed strongly in his mind against pro-
deeding any further with the proposed inquiry. An hon.
member opposite had said that it was impossible for the
house to reverse its j tidgment on the subject, bat he thought
he (Mr. Lowe) should be paying the house a far higher
compliment if he supposed that it would be possible for the
house to amend its resolution when it found %that it had
been induced to come to a hasty and improper decision.
The house was called upon to grant a eommittee to in-
quire into the condition of the army before Sebastopol,
and into the conduct of those departments which had had
the administration and conduct of that army. The hoe.
member for Surrey had very properly said that the inquiry
must be limited in some way. But how was the inquiry
to be limited ? Were the limits to exclude any iuiry
which mu: tbe dangerous to our alliance with France? if
so, how was it to be done? We were to inquire into the
condition of the army in the Crimea. The committee
would, therefore, hare to inquire into the conduct of those
who had charge of the army out there. The first question
which would arise would be on the part of those who cri-
minate the condition of the army, and who would say,
" You were side by side with the army of another nation,
not possessing the same maritime resources as yourselves,
and yet that army was in an excellent condition. Why
was yours not so ?" Those who defended themselves, or
those who were generous enough to take the part orthe
absent, would urge that the difference between the condi-
tion of the English and French armies was not, in truth,
so greet as had been imagined ; and upon this an issue
would be raised. That would be the very question upon
which the verdict of the committee would turn, and if
they intended to do justice to the parties accused, they
could not exclude that question from the consideration of
the committee. Trite, they might exclude it by an arbi-
trary rule, but by so doing they would deprive the parties
upon their trial of their best and strongest defence. How
could the committee attempt to fix an enduring and inde-
lible stain upon the men who had been entrusted with
these things, if they withheld any portion of the defence
which those men might be disposed to offer? Then, again,
if the result of the inquiry were to be made known to
the world, it would, in his opinion, greatly imperil our
present alliance with France ; and it was not to be ex-
pected that the Emperor of the French would attach
the same value to an alliance with a country which
for party or political purposes wished to inquire into every
act connected with the administration of his army. If,
therefore, they refused to go filly inte the question, they
would endanger the interest and reputation of those whose
conduct was called in question • and, on the other hand,
if they inquired minutely into the subject, they would en-
danger the stability of our valuable alliance with France.
On the ground of justice, too, he felt that the inquiry of
the committee must inevitably result in failure. Was it
wise to make it appear at the present moment to the na-
tions of Europe that the House of Commons sought to set
up an antagonistic system—that our Government possessed
a principle of quality, and that those who as a Government
put forward propositiens to-day were really governed by
another power, which was the House of Commons, and
that there could be no assurance that all the proposals
made might not be completely set aside next week? lie
was aoxiens that this great breach in our syste.n of go-
vernment—this formidable attack upon our means of
offence and defence —this measure, which so nearly
menaced our alliance with France and materially affected
our position in Europe, should not pass by without his
having offered it at least his most humble protest.
General FEEL stated that although his name had been
placed on the committee, he still felt, as he had stated on a
previous occasion, that the result of the inquiry would be
valueless, if not positively injurious. Having, however,
consented to serve on the committee, he was ready to do
all that lay in his power t• assist is realising the expecta-
tions of the country. The hon. and gallant member ex-
plained that on a former occasion he had been reported to
hare said that he was not surprised to witness the despon-
dency of the public with respect to our operations in the
East ; the word which he had employed was " indignation'
and not "despondency," for he certainly had never felt
anything like a feeling of despondency, but, on the con-
trary, had uniformly entertained the opinion that what-
ever might have been the blunders made at the commence-
' merit there could be no doubt as to the result of our °pc-
' rations. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. SCOTT said that, although he felt regret at the re-
tirement from the Cabinet of the three right hon. gentle-
men opposite, he undoubtedly felt more astonishment at
the course they had taken. For where was the altered
state of circumstances between the state of things as they
now existed and that upon which they consented to join
the Government ? (Heor.) It might be very well for those
right hon. gentlemen to say that the vote of the house in-
volved a censure upon the Government ; but, speaking for
himself, and for, he believed, the majority of his friends,
the sole grounds for that vote were the sufferings and loss
which had occurred in the army at the seat of war. If
the committee were granted, and supposing it to be formed
of men of competent ability, confidence would be restored,
and the required number of recruits would soon be re-
turned. (Hear.)
Mr. G. YERNON opposed the committee. The hon. and
gallant general who had spoken (Gen. Peel) showed that it
would be most inconvenient ; the noble lord who was to be
chairman (Lord Seymour) also showed that it would be
most dangerous, as well as inconvenient; and the hon.
member for West Surrey most unanswerably proved that
Was
it
solelyof the
aws a
a r.
vote
would be worse than useless—mischievous. The hon
0n those member said there was no intention to inquire into the
What
of t censureathen was
the
who h
inquiry
ad had
the
for?
the conduct of the war ? The people had a deep interest
faring and somee army, now in a situation of great suf-
and the delay i''il, and no doubt some of that suffering
avoided. nut which has taken place might have been
quire into the hew
state wall
all 5 committee of that house to in-
might have been delay9alinarnly 3,000 miles off? There
klava ; but were they to niaking the road from Bala-
or the general abroad? blamele the Government at home,
fixated that the Ministers
of England would ever throw
the officers engaged in the their mantles over
service
and that, should mistakes occnr, of the country,
sacrifice themselves than cast blamethey would rather ,
It was said that we had suffered nonettiotheir officers.'
National disgracer, after Alma, Balaklava, annaClintsgrace.
By whom was it wrought ? By Ministers at home 774.
position cheers.) That was a matter of opinion. no peoil;
bout the state of the
were deeply anxious a arm
Y,but what
wanted was a change of men, and not inquiry, It was
they wan
strong Government—it was a luau that th
action—it was a
b the HO f 6
tod and not an inquiry y tufb o Com-
people wan ,
mans. The hon. member
for Aylesbury had anticipated
He (Mr. G:Ver-
the verdict.
inquiry,.and had prejudged
her Ma'estys Government a cor-
dial was inclined to give 1
would to the best of his power sup-
dial support, and the
with .
__ but_
..,..,
vigeV,ri he did
port them in carrying 04 the var