The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-24 00:00:00

*Sing niehle to say that some qualifications had not been
Iltrodueed into the present bill, but he should deceive the
cuss if he did not state that the measure was substan-
tially the same as the former one. He did not think,
_ however, it was necessary for him to make any apology
for again laying on the table of the house a bill that had
been last year rejected. No doubt that rejection was a
• matter of considerable disappointment, both to himself
and all the lovers of education in Scotland ; but the die-
• appointment was qualified by the consideration that, at
all events, it had not arisen from any fault on the part of
the Scotch members. (Hear, hear.) The proposition for
its rejection was carried by the votes of English members,
and the Scotch members divided in the proportion of
thirty-six to fourteen in favour of the bill. It was
made to a great extent a party question, and the-ground
on which the rejection took place was this, and this alone,
that, in proposing a measure for the education of the
people q-T Scotland, they did not continue the exclusive
superintendence of the Established Church in Scotland,
and the exclusive privilege of members of that denomina-
tion. to teach in the schools. He now brought forward the
ineessure with the expectation, which was not unreasonable,
that on this occasion he might perhaps be more successful.
Since the commencement of the session a bill for the edu-
. cation of the people of England had been introduced by a
right hon. baronet on the other side (Sir J. Pakington), for
which he was entitled to receive the thanks and gratitude
of every philanthropic man in tho country, and the right
hon. best. had made it impossible for any man to stand up
and maintain that the education of the people was a thing
dangerous to the institutions of the country, and that they
could not educate the people safely, except through the in-
tervention of an Established Church. (Hear.) He (the
Lord Advocate) proposed to do by the bill which he asked
leave to introduce, what he did not think the right hon.
baronet proposed to do by his measure. He (the Lord Ad-
vocate) proposed that an educational survey should be made
by inspectors who would be directed to survey the whole
state of Scotland as regards its education, and to report to
the house within a limited time. The surveyors would be
directed to state how many schools wore in existence, how
many schools were wanting; where they were wanting—
what families sent their children to school, and what fami-
lies did not, so that they should have on the table a state-
ment which would enable them without the slightest diffi-
eulty to put their fingers on the districts where the
greatest darkness and ignorance prevailed, and to apply
a remedy at once. If that were done at once, and kept
up from year to year, would they not make a very great
stride in advance? They would thus bo able to show the
country and Europe to what an extent they were fulfill-
ing the duty ilcumbent upon them of educating the people
of the country and bringing up the risinl generation
in the way they ought to be reared. (Hear, hoar.)
The next provision of the bill related to the details of
the educational system proposed by him to be established.
There was -a difference between the positions of England
and Scotland with regard to education. In England there
was no educational system that was compulsory at all; in
Scotland they had ever since the Reformation a system of
education which was compulsory. The first question they
had toa deal with was this—would honourable gentlemen
opposite this year, as they did last year, refuse to allow
this measure to pass even a second reading unless on the
condition that the superintendence of the Established
Church should continue and remain over the parochial
schools in Scotland ? According to the system proposed
by the right honourable baronet it was not necessary to
have the schools under the superintendence of the Estab-
lished Church. The right honourable baronet proposed
twat the school was to be in couneotion with the denomi-
nation that formed the majority in the district; but if
that plan were adopted in Scotland, what did they think
would be the result ? In sixteen counties in Scotland the
plan proposed by the right hon. baronet would place the
whole education of those counties in the hands of the
Free Church, and there were only two counties in which
the Established Church was in an absolute majority. In
Scotland nine-tenths, or at all events seven-eights, of
the population were agreed in creed, and he asked the
right hon. gentleman whether, as he had proposed such a
scheme for England, it was possible to maintain that with
seven-eighths of the people of Scotland agreed in creed,
they could put the control of the national schools in the
hands of a body that formed a smaller proportion of the
population ? The right hon. baronet proposed no test, and
when in England they did not ask for the predominance of
the majority, why should they in consistency saddle them
in Scotland with the predominance of a minority. By this
bill he (the Lord Advocate) proposed to do away with the
superintendence of the Established Church, but still ho
conceived it would be found that the heritors would have
a very considerable voice in the matter. Then he came
to the question of religious education, and he need
scarcely say that he had never been an advocate for secular
education, and the.last thing he should wish to propose
would be the exclusion of religion from their schools. Ho
knew the people of Scotland to be a religious people, and
that the thing they had most deeply at heart was the reli-
gious education of the people. He agreed in the opinion
that secular education was a false theory, and was one that
could not bo applied to Scotland, though, at the same time,
• he must say that he should rather have secular edueatioo
than none. But it was needless to talk of that, because Scot-
land would not have secular education; it would only have
education with religions instruction at the same time. He
proposed to state in the preamble the attachment of the
people of Scotland to the use of the Holy Scriptures in the
schools, and then to have a provision that an hour should be
set apart for religious instruction in the schools. He con-
sidered that the clause which proposed to give power to the
Privy Council to contribute towards the maintenance of
schools was very much misunderstood, but he proposed to
introduce a provision that after a particular day the grants
frosts the Privy Council should be altogether discountinned
with regard to schools belonging to the classes that ought to
join generally in education. As the Roman Catholic Schools
formed but a small proportion, he proposed to leave those
schools in their present position. He would be guilty of an
injusticeif he did not say that the schools of the Established
Church were in a state of great efficiency. The competition
which had occurred during the last 15 years had created a
great deal of energy in that quarter, but that did not con-
vince him that a body of clergy that could only visit the
schools at intervals was en efficient body for the superin-
tendence of schools of this description. Then what were
they to do with the towns? It was proposed not to leave
it at the option of towns to have schools or not as they
thought proper, but to make it compulsory upon them to
have schools where schools were required. And in regard to
country districts where parochial schools were inefficient it
was proposed to make an assessment for the pnrpoee of sup-
plying such schools. It appeared that another bill had been
introduced by an hon. member, but how would that bill
wcik? It would certainly extend greatly the parochi d
schools, but would leave the denominationalschoolsjust as
they were. It would continue an erroneous denomina-
tional systems, whereby persons professing substantially the
same opinion, brought up tbeir children with the belief
that those who went to school at one side of the street dif-
fered entirely from those who went to school at the other
side of it. He wanted to put that down. He wanted to
put down sectarianism. Men agreeing substantially in the
same ducts ines had by unfortunate events been separated,
and it was desirable that the next generation should be
taught to abate the animosities that prevailed. It was by
no means essential he thought to keep up these tests ie the
towns, and as long as they required to have tests which
would prevent any persons but members of the Established
Church from beiug masters in the schools, it was utterly
vain to pass a measure. They might perhaps set an ex-
ample showing that, notwithstanding religious differences
might arise, still a system of education might be esta-
blished which should restore Scotland to her good name,
and perhaps be an advantage to the sister kingdom. He
concluded by moving for leave to bring in the bill.
Lord DUNCAN seconded the motion.
Mr. STIRLING said the learned lord began his speech
by alluding to the large number of Scotch members who
voted with him last year, and contrasting that large num-
ber with the small number who opposed him. He could
not deny that such was the case, but he wished to offer to
the house a short explanation why it was so. First of all
he was sorry to say that the majority of the Scotch mem-
bers were generally in the habit of sitting on the Ministe-
rial side of the house, and nobody regretted that fact more
than he did. (A. laugh.) The majority of the Scotch mem-
bers followed their natural bent and voted with the side of
the house on which they sat. But there was yet another
reason. 'The house could not be too soon informed that in
Scotland the parochial system did not extend to the towns,
and it was not surprising that members who represented
town constituencies should be glad to catch at any scheme
which gave their constituentsa system of education. The
learned lord next went on to refer to the bill of the right
hon. baronet the member for Droitwich, and he asked how
those who supported that scheme could oppose the senile
thiegfor Scotland. The answer to that would be found in
the great difference which existed between the educational
position of England and Scotland, still more in the marked
difference which there was in the position which the Church
of Scotland held with regard to education and that occupied
by the Church of England. The Church of England possessed
no educational establishment whatever ; it possessed no pa-
rochial apparatus such as that which was attached to the
Church of Scotland. From the beginning of its existence
the Church of Scotland had taken a lively interest in edu-
cation, and for two centuries and a half the Church of
Scotland had sedulously watched over the education
of the people; but eduoation formed no part of the
ecclesiastical system of the Church of England. The
two Churches, therefore, presented such a marked con-
trast as to make what might be fair and right for Eng-
land quite the reverse for Scotland. The parochial schools
of Scotland were in a flourishing condition ; but the learned
lord *attributed that, not to the influence of the Church,
but to competition ; and yet, five minutes afterwards,
he appealed to them to support a bill to put down that
competition. On the point of difference of creed, the
learned lord admitted that the difference of creed between
_ the two churches was very slight. Well, now, if it had
th.h.reat, there might have been a case for the bill, but
for; being slight, there was no necessity whatever
land wervser7elt)ody knew that the parochial schools of S et-
including itc, sectarian schools, and children of all sects,
man Catholics, frequented them, thereby
proving that Parents did not object to their system of re-
sligiturinsgtZbhiilul for
iTtahe learned lord, adverting to his (Mr
far enoulgri7ing the parochial schools, said it
did not
notecenutseen! t did not meddle with the
towns. But it
amend
to do so, as its simple
object WAS to amend thosei defeelonsileit4t,tie parochial system
which all admitted, and every
lord asked them to lay Inside their sectarianl ore The learned
and to meet upon one common groins&differences,
this bill as an experiment in the town_
and then' m try
would be a chance of their mee_ting upon pima_share
"1° ground
but while he made that offer
hTnlh:ll lla owed to ad.i
that there was no want of schools s.rge towns, such
as Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, and Abersten. The
difficulty, then, was not the want of schools an school ac-
commodation, but some means by which parents should he
induced to send their children to school. Still he appealed
h
to the learned lord to let them meet on th.atcommad ground
Which he desiderated, and which he (Mr. Stirling)
ven-
tured to shadow forth. Let the learnedh eluobleertemefeme(biteir.
the advice of Lord Brougham,
cation in Scotland divided itself
ejd It with
it ought therefore to b ea
thatinto Leo heads, namely,
town and country, and
in two bills, not in one only.
Mr. BAXTER claimed the kind indulgence which i
th.o
house always extended to a, new member, while he said .
few words upon the subject, to which lie had devoted a
good deal of attention. The learned lord requiyeil nu
apology for calming attention to the question, for if there
was a question more than another apart from the war, in
which the people of Scotland took a deep interest, and
which always engrossed their attention, it was this ques-
tion nrf education. They regarded itas of vital importance,
amp he should be greatly disappointed indeed it' the propo-
sition now submitted to their consideration was not hailed
with the utmost satisfaction. Notwithstanding what the
last speaker had said, the bill breathed an enlightened and
liberal spirit, while he must also add his opinion that it
had been framed by no unskilful hand. He did not wish to
say a single disrespectful word concerning the present paro-
chial schools ; they had done much to elevate and advance
his native land, but since they had come into operation
Scotland had undergone an entire change. The decided
majority of tile people of that country, no longer attended
the Establish est Church, and, that being the case, it could

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