The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-17 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 17, 185:i

perhaps after a few months, the war will have ceased, and
peace will have returned ; but unless this house will con-
sent to address itself seriously to the present state of our pub-
lic education, we should still find ourselves surrounded by
that mass of ignorance and crime which is now tarnishing'
our national reputation, and, as I believe, sepping and un-
derruiningournational welfare and our national prosperity.
I believe there is no question to which Pal liement is more
bound to address itself, and I think that, if the house will
favour me with their attention, I shall be able to prove this
evening that there is no question to which we as a Legis-
lature ought to devote more anxious consideration. lam
happy to say that, even from the events of this war, wo
may draw some strong arguments in favour of education.
(Hear, hear.) If there still are any persons who doubt the
necessity of education, and who believe that to raise the
people of this country as human beings, to teach them their
duty towards God and man, is to unfit theirs for social
duties and industrial pursuits—if there still are persons
who linger in that belief I think I rosy only refer them to
the position of the British soldier as a satisfactory answer.
(Hear, hear.) Ido not believe that any class of men were
ever more rapidly raised in their morel and intellectual
condition than our soldiers have been during the last forty
years. ( ear, hear.) The Duke of Cambridge, in the
course of his striking and able evidence—(Order, order.)
Sir, I really forgot, but I will put itin another way. (Hear,
hear, and a laugh.) I may say, then, I heard from his
Royal Highness that even in his comparatively short expe-
rience, short as compared with forty yearn, the progress of
our soldiers in general education has been extraordinary,
almost incredible. What has beenthe result ? Sir, I think
I may appeal to the results of the last few months, to
many of those letters which we all have road in the public
press, and then confidently assert that never at any period
did our soldiery prove themselves more worthy than during
those extraordinary combinations of victory and disaster.
(Hear, hear.) I confess, sir, I approach this subject with
a deep sense, not only of its importance, but also of its
difficulty. I feel, in bringing it before the house, and
proposing legislation on the subject, it is due to the
house that I should give some explanations of my rea-
sons and motives to vindicate myself from any charge of
presumption. I have been influenced in this course be-
cause it has appeared to me that the late Government of
my Lord Aberdeen had been either deterred by the
difficulties of the subject, or else abandoned all idea of
legislating upon it. Shortly after the formation of that
ministry, I well remember that education was put in the
very van of the professions made by the Government--
(hear, hear)—and very shortly after the noble lord the
member for the City of London introduced a measure on
the subject. That bill I will not venture to discuss at the
present moment, but will venture to say there was agreat
deal iu it that I was disposed to support, and which ap-
peared to me to be well worthy of consideration and dis-
cussion by this house—(hear, hear) —but, unfortunately,
it never progressed to a second reading. (Hear, hear.) Well,
sir, what occurred last year, in the session of 1554? That
plan, the most important f nil educational plans, in my
opinion, known as the Manchester and Salford Bill, was
brought under the consideration of the house. That bill
was the emanation of great patience, greet labour, expe-
rience, and the combination of men of all religious deno-
minations ; yet how was the measure treated ? It was re-
jected and thrown out on the petty quibble as to whether,
according to our forms, it was a public or a private bill.
(Loud cries of hear, hear.) Sir, I must also observe, that
during the discussion on that bill the Treasury bench was
absolutely unoccupied ; and the Government having sub-
sequently given no sign, it appeared to me as if the whole
matter of education hail been dropped. (Hear, hoar.) It
was, therefore, under these circumstanced, and feeling
that a subject of such importance should be dealt with by
Parliament, that, at the close of the last session, I de-
termined I would make this single attempt on the subject.
and I accordingly gave notice of this bill. In the ses-
sion before Christmas I put my notice on the paper for
the 25th of January, and, shortly after, the noble lord
the member for the City of London gave notice of his
intention to introduce a bill, on, the 23d of January,
two days previously, which bill has been introduced and
laid on the table. I will not say that I know not whether
but fur my -ootice this noble lord would have introduced the
bill. (Hear, and a laugh.) I felt, however, I would not
be just led in withholding my notice—(hear)—but I can-
didly say it is in no spirit of rivalry I come forward. I
recoguise the exertions of the noble lord during many
years iu the cause of education ; and had he intimated, at
the close of last session, his intention to deal with the sub- '
ject, I never would have presumed to interfere in the mat-
ter, but would leave it altogether in the bands of the
noble lord. (Hear.) Now that we have embarked in the
question, I hope, with the assistance of the noble lord and
this house, that we shall arrive at a satisfactory conclusion.
(Hear.) There is one portion of this subject of the greatest
possible importance, and to which I am very desirous to
call the attention of this house, and more particularly that
of her Majesty's Government, because it is not embraced
either in the bill of the noble lord the member for the City
of London or in that which I am desirous of introducing —I
allude to the present constitution and action of the Com-
mittee of the Privy Council. Sir, lam greatiy dissatisfied
both with the constitution and the working of that commit-
tee. In the first place, I think the committee has become
far too important and intrusted with functions of far too
great magnitude to continue longer without being recog-
nised as a department of the state, and consequently re-
presented in this house. (Hear.) My objection to the
action of the committee is this, that whilst Parliament
liberally votes sums of money for public instruction, Iven-
ture to say that, by the present action, these sums are alto-
gether misapplied. (Hear.) Ido not at all deny that they
have effected much good ; but I do contend the sums are
badly administered and misapplied ; and that the liberality
of Parliament produces the minimum, instead of the maxi-
mum, of public good. (Hear.) We have increased these
grants, and risen from the sum of 10,0001. or 20,000/.,
which used to be the amount voted in the time of the ad-
ministration of Lord Grey, until we have reached, as in the
case of last year, the sum of 300,000/. Now, is there any
case in which Parliament votes 300,000/. without having a
responsible minister to account for its expenditure? (Hear.)
There was a parallel case—the case of the Poor-law Board.
After the institution of that board gentlemen of great ex-
perience and ability were appointed commissioners. Much
dissatisfaction followed, and before many years the board
had ho reorzanised as a public department, and canoe-
fine.n tly represented in this house. (Flear.) Why alio tad not
education have a recognised department ? (Hear.) The time
is gone by when these important matters can be dealt with
in a half-and-half way; and the time has come when Par-
liament has a right to see a minister in this house respon-
sible for the expenditure of this money, and liable to be
called upon for explanation at any moment. There is no
other country which does not recognise the importance of
a Minister of Public Instruction—France, the cantons
of Switzerland, America. (Hear, hear.) Therefore,
with these precedents abroad I will proceed to establish
the necessity for such an officer at home. (Hear.) The first
point I will take is one of paramount importance--I mean
the providing of efficient masters. (Hear.) The Commit-
tee of the Privy Council have not discharged their duty on
that point with either wisdom or success. (Hear.) I hold
in my hand the opinions of several inspectors of education,
all complaining of the want of better provision for masters.
The fact is, our masters are so overtrained that when the
time comes for their educational duties they are far above
them, and consequently they take to other pursuits. Mr.
Kennedy informs me in a letter that many of them betake
themselves to holy orders; and therefore I think there is
strong ground for inquiry by this house on that point
amongst others. I believe it will be found that not above
two-thirds of those trained for masters actually take to
that occupation. So that we are devoting grants of the
public money to the bringing np of parties much to their
own advantage, but not all to the advantage of the pub-
lic. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Therefore I say the pub-
lic money is misapplied, and in more ways than one, for
the grants are made rather to wealthier districts than to
the poorer which require them. The minute under which
the grant is made requires that two-thirds of the sum
shall be made up by the locality; therefore, I believe,
the poorer districts get nothing at all. Now, sir, I
will proceed to show this by contrasting four of the poorer
parishes with four of the wealthier of this metropolis.
The parish of Clerkenwell, with a population of
74,763 souls, gets 81. 17s. 4,1. for books ; the parish of
St. Giles, with 37,000 inhabitants, gets 31. 13s. 41. ; the
parish of Shoreditch, with 25,000 souls,' receives nothing ;
and the parish of Shad well, with 11,700 souls, gets nothing.
Now, the wealthier parishes are these—St. Martin's, Lei-
cester-square, with 8,50 souls, gets 4651. ; St. Barnabas,
with 3,000 inhabitants, 4101. ; Kea rish-town, with 5,003
inhabitants, 8461. and Kensington, with 30,000 souls,
2,1971. So that 145,500 persons receive 12/. Os. 8 ri., whilst
46,000 persons get no less than 3,9031. I ask is that the
gthineone
ypyoel it c
thata v• h iicsh
houghteres to
lot ionffltihreenmc tnhuitse huonuisthe
ri nwri te ihn
com-
mittee of the Privy Council is now acting. This, I say,
would be immediately corrected if we had a proper minister
for the department, and one who would be responsible for
the expeneiture of the money voted by this house. I will
inno now,
,isicro,
country which
dwtioliccahlllartegtenretitotnotsoaythies svteaitye oliftteldeuuenatdieorn.
stood. It may be said, " The question ought to be left where
it is, we are getting on very well." Sir, I regret to say I
shall be able to show that we are getting on quite scandal-
ously ; and I shall place some facts before the house of a
startling character, making, at the same time, no state-
ment without clue authority. When the noble lord the
member for the City of London brought forward the subject
of education in 1853 he fell, and not unnaturally, into the
error of taking far too flattering a view of the state of
the question. But the noble lord, whilst adverting to
the improvements that had taken place, never at all
touched upon the deficiencies of our system. (Hear.)
The statistics of the periods 1818,1833, and 1851. were very
well known. It was ascertained that in 1818 there was
only 1 in 17 of the inhabitants of this country at school; in
1833 there was 1 in 11 ; and in 1851 the proportion had
increased to lin 8 of the population. Now this appears
to be a great advance and improvement. (Hear.) But if
you analyse the figures, and keep before you the dates, you
will find that the advance between 1833 and 1851 is by no
means of equal ratio with that occurring between 1818 and
1833. My own belief is that in many important districts
of this country our condition in the period from 1833 to
1851 was worse than in the period from 1818 to 1833. York
and Liverpool may be mentioned ; for in 1833 in Liverpool
1 in 7 and a fraction were at school, whilst in 1831 there
was only 1 in 8 and a fraction at school in the same town.
(Hear.) I will now proceed to call attention to the quality
of the education, and inquire if those who go to school are
properly taught. On this head four views of the question
present themselves before me; first, the number of those
who are without education; secondly, the quality of the
education which they receive ; thirdly, our comparative
state with regard to the rest of the world ; and, fourthly,
the deplorable results of the neglect of this question. Mr.
Horace Mann, in his able report on the census of 1851, sets
clown the population of tnis kingdom at what I shall take
to be 15,000,000. The number of childreh between 3 and 15
years he estimates at nearly 5,000,000. I find that of these
only 2,144,000 children were at school. Therefore there
remained nearly 3,000,000 of children without education.
Mr. Horace Mann made a deduction of 1,000,000 for chil-
dren at work. Now I demur to this deduction being made
at all ; for I say that in any country where education is
conducted on a sound basis children should not be allowed
to work until they were educated. (Hear.) But I find by
the statistics of the census that only 600,000 children are
employed. The rep art of Mr. Horace Mann showed that
of the children between the ages of 5 and 12 years, there
should be 3,030,000 at school, and yet we find only two-
thirds of that number in reality receiving education. I
now come to inquire why these children are not at school.
A common idoaprevails that they are at work. I believe that
to bo a mistake. (Hear.) In Manchester there were 69,500
children between the ages of 3 and 14, of whom only 32,000
wore at school, 7,000 at work, and 30,000 neither at school
nor at work. The general result was, as to the whole coun-
try, that 41 per cent. were sent to school, 12 per cent. were
at work, and 46 per cant. were neither at school nor at
work. Therefore, the children being at work could not be
the (sense of the ereet deficiency in their education. The
—• I

that, if not so, they were not led to attach much value to
the education afforded, which, was so bad that they cared
not to let their children partake of 'it. Thii was the
moat important part of the case—that those children who
were sent to school did not receive the proper benefits of
education. And here he turned, with feelings of humilia-
hien, to the comperison between the state of education in
this country and in the rest of the civilised world. He
grieved to say that, with the exception of Russia, Spain,
Italy, and the slave states in America, England was at the
bottom of the scale. In Switzerland there were, in many of
the cantons, 1 in 5 at school; in Saxony, also lin 5 ; in
the free states of America, 1 in 5 ; in France, 1 in 6 ; in
Wurtemberg, 1 in 6 ; in Prussia, 1 in 6 ; in Denmark, 1 in
7 ; and in England, lin n. But there was a still greater
contrast in the nature of the systems pursued in these
different
,countries. In Prussia the course of instruction in
every elementary school comprised-1, religion ; 2, the
German language ; 3,4, 5, the elements of physicial and
natural sciences, geography, arithmetic, &c.; 6, singing ; 7
writing ; 8 manual labour, and especially instruction in
agriculture. And religion, reading and writing, arith
nietic and singing, were declared " indispensable." In
Switzerland the course of instruction was-1, religion;
2, reeding ; 3, writing ; 4, linear drawing ; 5, geogra•
phy ;6, arithmetic; 7, singing, • 8, elements of geo-
logy ; 9, history of . Switzerland; 10, elements of na-
tural philosophy ; 11, the " Rights and Duties of a
Citizea." In Denmark few children were unable to read
and write. A code of general regulations had been in
operation since 1817, and the condition of education made
constant progress. Parochial schools were everywhere
established. Attendance at them. was not optional.
for by a late law all children between the ages of 7 and
19 must be sent to public schools; and if their parents
were unable to pay the children were educated at the pub-
lic expense. So in Prussia. The course of instruction in
Denmark and Prussia included, besides religion and read-
ing and writing, arithmetic, geography, and natural his-
tory. In France, under the system established by M.
Guizot, 1831, elementary schools were everywhere estab-
lished, in which the course of instruction was-1, moral
and religious; 2, reading; 3, writing ; 4, arithmetic; 5,
French ' • 6, weights and meesures ; 7, geography ; 8, his-
tory; 9, linear drawing; 10, singing. Every school was
divided into classes, according to the capacity of the pupils,
certain portions of Scripture were committed to memory,
and every Saturday the Gospel for the ensuing Sunday was
read by the pupils. In Germany, including most of the
states in Austria, Wurtemberg, Hesse, Bavaria, &c., regu-
lations were established, requiring that every poor child
be sent to school. In Hesse, for instance, public function-
aries every six months saw that all the children above
six years of age were sent to some of the public schools ;
and if the parents wore unable to pay the fees they were
paid out of the public funds. In Holland no child of ten
years of age could be uninstructed. And in the United
States he need scarcely say how generally education was
disseminated. (Hear, hear.) How different was the
uses in England. According to Mr. Horace Mann, there
were 45,000 scheols in England, in which reading was
taught in 93 per cent., writing in 68 per cent., arithmetic
in 61 per cent., grammar in 44 per cent., geography in
39 per cent., music in 10 per cent., industrial occupations
—one of the primary objects of popular schools
—(hear)—only 2 leer cent. (Hear.) Such was the gene-
ral character of our education. What was the condition
of the Church schools, according to the reports of the Na-
tional Society ? Of the Church schools 30 per cent. wore
not secured for educational purposes, 47per cent. were not
even virtually secured • and so about 50 per cent. were
dame :schools, or in cottages, corners of churches, &c. And.
what was the condition of the schools not belonging teethe
Church ? Mr. Horace Mann stated that, upon a rough
attempt at classifying them according to their efficieney,
only 20 per cent. of the whole could be called " superior"l4o.
about 5,003 in number. There were 7,000 only "Arid'.
dling," 13,e00 "inferior." But the most startling laete
was, that out of these last about 890 of the schoolome*se
or schoolmistresses were unable to write, and signed their.
returns with marks. (Hear, hear.) So that in 800 of
our schools the masters and mistresses were unable to
write their own names. (Hear, hear.) Thus then it
appeared that not only was the proportion of our poor
children educated much smaller then in most of the coun-
tries of Europe, but the species of instruction afforded in
our schools was most inferior, and quits discreditable, as
compared with that in foreign countries. (Hear.) What was
the deplorable result of this fearful deficiency in education ?
Need ho trace the connection between ignorance and crime?
(Hear.) Statistical information upon that subject it was
difficult to obtain; there were indeed complete returns of
convictions at sessions and assizes, but not of summary con-
victions. The only foreign country whose returns of crime
were complete, and with whom we could institute a com-
parison, was Austria. In 1840 the population of England
was 17,000,0000, and the total number of convictions was
60,809. In Austria the population was 23,600,000, and the
detected crimes amounted to 30,000. Thus, then, while the
population of Austria was six millions and a half more
than ours, the detected crimes in England doubled those of
Austria. In other words, the crimes in England were as
three to one compared with Austria. Now, Austria was a
very well .educated country, and it was curious that the
number of detected crimes appeared greatest in her mining
districts which were least educated. Let them now look
at the state of some districts in England. And first as to
the metropolis. Take four populous parishes north of the
Thames, and four south of the Thames. In Stepney, St.
George's-in-the-East, Bethnal-green, and Shoreditch,
there were 358,600 persons, and 44,800 children, of whom
only 19,000 were at school. In Southwark, Bermondsey,
St. George's, and Newington, there were 304,000 persons
(making, with the four parishes first mentioned, a total
population of more than 660,000), and about 56,000 chil-
dren, of whom about 36,000 were without education. There
could be, alas ! no difficulty in divining the condition of
these poor children. (Hear.) The report of the inspector
of schools for the westerndistriet stated that in Devonshire,
Cornwall, D-orsetshire, and Hampshire, there were thou-
sands of poor children who were not acquainted with
the Lord's Prayer, and hardly knew that there was a
God in heaven ! (Hear.) This, he stated, was the rule and
not the exception amongst the children of those who were
in the habit of receiving parochial relief ; they were in a
state of the most heathenish ignorance. In Newcastle
there was a population of 87,000, including 18,403 children,
and of there the ieepe.tvi of eohuulo staged Lhat, 11,400
were unaccounted for as regarded education, only 7,000
children attending schools. The same state of things
existed at Gateshead, Hartlepool, Sunderland, and Shields.
So in the eastern counties. Mr. Mitchell, the inspector,
had lately ascertained from the colonels of seven regiments
of militia lately embodied the state of the men as regarded
education—the Cambridgeshire regiment, the North and
South Essex regiments, the Ilmingdon, the East and
West Norfolk, and the East and West Suffolk regiments.
There were 5,600 men, of whom only 2,003 could write
their names. (Hear.) The chaplain of the gaol atWorcester
stated that out of 1,100 prisoners4so were totally ignorant;
and he added that a" woeful amount of gross ignorance on
moral and religious subjects existed among the great ma-
jority of cases brought under his notice." The excellent
chaplain of Preston gaol (the Rev. Mr. Clay) stated that in
three years the performance of his duties had brought him
into contact with 1,700 men and boys, and 387 womenand
girls, altogether unable to read; and 1,300 men and boys,
and 280 women and girls, who did not know the name of
the reigning Sovereign • and 1,290 men and boys, and 290
women and girls, who Aid not know the meaning of such
gentleman stated that there were about 2,000 persons com-
mitted as vice and virtue, iniquity or holiness. 1n1849 that
mitted to the gaol, of whom 48 per cent. were unable to
read, 41 per cent. were ignorant of the Saviour's name and
of the Lord's Prayer, 61 per cent, ignorant of the name of
the Queen, 62 per cent. unacquainted with the meaning of
virtue or vice, and 19 per cent. were unable to count up to
100. There was a similar report for 1848 ; and the rev.
gentleman assured him that his statements were rather
under the mark, and could be safely relied on as the result
of careful personal observation,
was as dreadful as it was disgraceful, things was disgraceful to the country, (Hear, hear.) It
latelyf
I a flattered
aerr se:a:
tpohtue to os
ie.olbvuoegashs tityho
atfitiosiutfur
rinstitutions,uber disturbed.
m(y c .veraa.l.
nyB)dan
jsohudteectlhtauor
sgaf (Sirt:
take
at
ji
ctiaey. trlitei,eheaaeoakitfti.
ington) was struck with horror when he contemplated it.
we set an example to other nations. A little while ago we
our military system was perfect. That dream had been
lest in other matters of groat weight and moment, instead
of setting an example to other nations, we become their
warning or their laughing-stock. He repeated, what
could bo snore disgraceful, either to the country or to the
House of Commons than that such a state of things should
exist all around us. Were they to bear with it? Were
they to say, " We are doing better every year ; we have
liberal grants and an active Committee of Privy Council,
and let us be content ?" Was it consistent with our duty
to be content with such a state of things
energy).
9 No, sir (ex-
claimed the right hen. baronet with
for one, will not be content. (Cheers
inadequate I may be for the task I have.) And, however
undertaken, I
will venture to say that if the House of Commons allows
afirst a
tdeu toi
fe s t
ha
isnag
BCihs r
I‘, s,toirasne
tha n legislature.b:trbr
s(
ma:sari
a)
aSri.r),
such a state of things to continue it will neglect one of its
s The
rev. gentleman whose report I last referred to most truly
uses that expression. He states, that out of the 2,000
prisoners of whom he spoke, 1,300 did not know the
names of the months of the year, and 800 had never heard
the name of the Saviour ! Most justly does he say that
their state is worse than barbarism. It is ignorance, gross
and dense, of all matters, secular or religious. It is ig-
norance everything which can make them worthy of
unhappy
outcasts,the Se while they
Saviour, or the
the name of human beings. But, I repeat, it is worse
atirleanthbuarsbaigronnors,maftorotfhetche these unnahma
existence of a God, are conversant with every form of
vice, and familiar with crime of every kind.
hear.) Yes, they are steeped in debauchery, ha
iniquity—(hear, hear)—and for these wretchedbrdeine(gnnsedeyaoirun,
pass stringent laws, and if they transgress h
FIT e therearh canar
ntehgelmectpoufnish
them severely, not reflecting if they areour
really
ignorance
in
Churchmen,
saolnemgei
acts
ol legislature. ealv.re
ch u
responsiblea
11 oo rw tht
he ierma cttoi erne%
ai
inn
,t
fhreo
md eonusre
like
to know what these distinctions between Churchmen and
Dissenters signify to those thousands of miserable beings
a
and will insist upon teaching the Catechism; and others aro
paramounttold,
e indeed et eyw
rd a,
hstyah a!Ctbh thisereißa tui i
ens
Dissenters, and will not revere creeds. Sir, I should
who are ignorant of the primary truths of Christianity ?
(Hear.) I ask whether it is not a mockery to speak or think
of such distinctions upon such a question ? (Rear, hear.)
Is it not time anxiously and earnestly to consider, is there
no middle term, no neutral ground, upon which Church-
men and Dissenters may meet, remembering the great car-
dinal doctrinesof Christianity on which we agree, thinking
more of them than of the points (comparatively unim.
poitwit) of Government and discipline on which we differ?
(Hear, hear.) Ido not ask Churchmen to relinquish creeds
and catechisms, I am a Churchman myself, and I will not
consent to forego them. Neither do I ask Dissenters to
accept anything they object to. But I implore them all
alike--Churchmen and Dissenters—to reflect on this dread-
ful state of things which I have described, and to meet, or
to endeavour to meet, in a spirit of toleration and forbear-
ance, and consider if the time has not come when some
means should be adopted by which we may teach these
miserable beings to whom I have referred their duty to
Go.l and man. (Hear.) He would now state the nature
of the measure which he had to propose. (Hear, hear.)
He did so with the greatest diffidence, knowing the
difficulty of the question, and ho did it in no party
spirit and for no party purpose ; on the contrary,
persuaded that if the subject were involved in the
struggles of party it would never be settled, 'and his
anxiety was to induce men of all parties to combine in the
hope of solving this difficult question, and releasing the
country from so disgraceful a state of things. (Hear, hear.)
The first point he had to notice in his measure was one of
doubt ; it was intended to be only permissive. He was
not fond of permissive legislation, and knew of many in-
stances in which it had not conduced. to the public welfare.
1 But he knew the difficulty of the subject; and in his po-
Gvernment infine,,c linithoe-*t
- •• pert:c!i-;
,-; • r •,, • LUC pl 131'
purposes of education to the present system of poor law
relief, which had worked well, and, in his opinion, was
applicable to the object he had in view. The noblest page
muted that no AAA
in our atatute-bwk wall that whic

11 .11, a a,/ucied.
in the schools. And let it be recollected that the evil accu-
mulated every generation—that the parents, who them-
301VOS were uneducated, were prone to disregard it, and

, sst ablished in America, which everybody applauded, which
1- 11 persons submitted to with probably greater satisfaction
la= they subscribed any other state impost whatever, could
sot be transplanted into our own towns ?"
' the opinions of the hon. member for Manchester were—
East, that religion should be taught; and secondly, that it
might to be taught upon the American system. Well, I
tale hon. members, in the spirit of candour and fairness, to
. rig whether they really thought that the American sys-
-1 tarn could be adopted in this country? I think I can
lialw• the house that it would be utterly impossible. In
tenerica there was no one creed predominant. Lot me re-
Hind the house of the mode and manner in which religion
i :taught in America. Mr. Twisselton, an able and lis-
t languished gentleman, in his work upon the system of re-
-1 lgious teaching in the state of Massachusetts, states the
f arowin„e facts :—This gentleman save he addressed a cer-
t dirt number of questions to the heads of the schools in the
la iced States. He asked what the system of religion was
t: to t was taught and how it had worked, and was informed
tl tat the children received all distinct teaching according
to t heir religious tenets. Then comes the question, " How
do .t hey get it ?" The answer given is, " they are taught it at
ho :e." Now, let me ask the gentlemen who advocate the
intro lduc Lion of the American system into this country to
say• • whether they are prepared to trust the teaching of
rel ig ion to the children of England to their parents at home?
Wha do they suppose is the home of those thousands to
who, n I have referred—those thousands who have never
he ar d the name of our Savour, and who scarcely know of
th, I • existence of a God? Do not compare the state of a
ye), ii ‘g country like America, where there is a population
so se, tnty and wealth so abundant, where poverty was al-
mc et• unknown, with the state of things in England, where
we hada dense and pauper population whose education
ha been long neglected. (Hear, bear.) I have shown you
th at in all the countries of Europe religion was wisely put
in fr, mt, and the first item in the educational code of all
Ch ri Arian countries was religion. How then is religion to
be ught in England ? Will you contend that in a popu-
lati oft so debased, so ignorant, and so irreligious as unhap-
pily-. e .xist amongst us, the wretched parents can or will
tea eh their children as much religion as they ought to
kn. ow ? In nay opinion if religion be not taught in schools
it will not be taught at all. Well, in support of the sys-
tem: propose, lam fortified by the examples both of Pro-
test ea :t and Roman Catholic countries. First, I will quote
Aire tr ia, in respect to which I find this account given of
the ar ode in which the difficulty of religious teaching is
met n---
" Vile Roman Catholic as the national religion is that
tang itt in the schools of Austria; but dissenters from this
fora t of faith are neither excluded nor separated, nor are they
req, pied to engage in the religious services or peculiar cede-
sias tic al learning in these schools. In the Roman Catholic
Bch( Mini the Jews, as well as the Protestants and other dis-
sent ere, arrive one hour after and leave one hour before the
other pupils, these twe hours being occupied with religious
servile a and instruction, such as was attempted in this coon_
try sex ne years ago. There are other non-Catholic schools,
part ice larly in Transylvania and the military frontier, Gal-
° ja and Silesia, Eohemia, and Corynthia, amount-
.l,oll7p'rimary schools, whose religious instruction is in
acre ida nee with the creed of these countries, the oversight of
whi ch "•s• committed to the clergy of each particular denomi-
rati .ore.."
In Austria, then, you have the system established which
I ve in tare to suggest for adoption in England—viz., teach-
ing ti se religion of the majority of the place ; but at the
seines time showing the most perfect toleration to all others.
In S n itzerland how do they act?
" It t the majority of these schools the members of the dif-
ferei religious sects are received with a willingness and with
a Ch ri stian charity which puts to shame our religions intoler-
ance., . Those who differ in faith from the master of
the r sel cool are allowed to absent themselves from thg doctrinal
lesse .ns given in the school, and are required to attend one of
their o wn clergy for the purpose of receiving from him their

should be destitute; and he desired to add a still nobler
page to that book, providing that no man should be ig-
norant. (Hear, I.hear.) The areas within which he pro-
posed that the measure should operate were in corporate
towns the limits of the municipal corporations, and in
country districts the peor-law unions. He proposed that
in the poor-law unions it should be optional to the rate-
payers to decide whether they would adept the act, pur-
suing in this reaped the precedent of the Public Libraries
Act .f a recent session. If it be adopted, then I propose
to elect an educational board, to be chosen by the rate-
payers at large ; that the management shall be placed in
the hands of bodies popularly elected, following the plan
pursued in the United States. But, it being most desir-
able that men of the highest education and position shall
be members of the board, I propose that the qualification
shall be a ratirg of 301. per annum, and that all the magis-
trates of the district shall be ex-officio members. (Hear,
hear.) When the board is elected it shall have power to
provide schools where they think them necessary ; to su-
perintend the general education of the district, to levy the
rate for the purpose of maintaining the schools, and expend
it. Sir this brings me to the voluntary principle. (Hear,
hear.) I have thought much upon that subject, and the
more wo consider it, the greater, I think, must be our
general conviction that on the voluntary system we can-
not educate the people. (Hear, hear) I believe we can
no more educate the people ou the voluntary principle
as they ought to be educated, than that we can carry on a
war or any other great enterprise by means of taxes volun-
tarily raised. (Hear, hear.) Government inspectors have
afforded continued evidence that the people cannot be
educated on the voluntary principle. But, sir, hardly a
day passes that we do not receive beving-letters for assist-
ance. (Hear, hear.) I have in my hand a letter from a
gentleman in the Eldon district in Sheffield, in which he
says :
" I beg leave to inform you that having been appointed
to the newly-formed district of Eldon, Sheffield, containing
a population of 5,500 souls, I built a church, which was con-
secrated in June, 1841, but it is still without a tower, and I
have no schools built for the accommodation of the young.
Chartism and infidelity avow in all directions their danger-
ous principles. (A laugh.) The young grow up in ignorance
and vice. The temptations of a large manufacturing town
arc felt iu numberless ways. Under these circumstances I
am anxious to complete the work I have begun, and to raise
a school for the reception of daily and Sunday scholars ; but
local resources are few and scanty."
Sir, I say the local resources ought not to be few and
'scanty. (Hear, hear.) I say that this district ought to pro-
vide schools without sending a bogging-letter for the pur-
pose. (Hear, hear.) Tho Rev. Mr. Kennedy, ono of the
school inspectors, says, " Everything seems to point to a
rate for education, for a want of proper funds leads to in-
efficient
teaching" and other evils. In 1852, the same
gentleman thus sums up his views :
" There are 10 propositions on the subject which my ob-
servation leads me to affirm :-1. Elementary schools in
general are not at this time being adequately maintained.
2. There is not a fair prospect, on the present system, that
they will have a sufficient annual income. 3. On the con-
trary, there is in a majority of places a decline of income.
4. The endeavours to obtain yearly contributions to schools
are harrassiug and vexatious, and the means sometimes re-
sorted to for raising funds, such as high fees and scales of
fees, are injurious to the schools. 5. There is a painful and
injurious uncertainty about the efficient maintenance of
schools, also pernicious fluctuations of income, arising from
such causes as the death of a benevolent landed proprietor, or
of a liberal mill-owner, or the loss of a good !master, undoing
~iti, a moment the work of years, and causing flourishing schools
to fall Aq,deciy.,!.A...Many districts are absolutely unable
-fli!onl;poierty to-`maintain good schools without extraneous
4fiainuatakk.,,,,J. In Atricts where there is no absolute defi-
kne.. Of mwei-ry,2l* .even where there is wealth, the schools
:..re,,o ii suffeeted,to'languish from parsimony, or from in-
..4ller6liee, anct,kieSra hostility to education. 8. It is desirable
.4e
al,iite the joai el iil-feelir,- ,T
LI

..falo
`ie jeialmisiii an.. feeling often at present engen- doet ricetl instruction. Even in Fribourg, a canto,' governed
•e among finferen religious denominations by contests for by ( lestiholic priests who are themselves under the influence of
;scriptioas to 'shools, &c., and to enable every deserving the leteuits, Protestants may be found mingled with the Ca.
school to have an independent income. 9. It is often very thol sits in the schools, and are allowed to absent themselves
desirable, but not,:feasible through want of means, to admit duri a g the hours of religious lessons; and in Argovie, a can-
some of the scholal's -free to school ; and, in some cases, ton - is, hich has lately so distinguished itself by its opposition
wholly free 'schools ails-requisite. 10. The above-named evils to vie Jesuits of Lucerne, I found that several of the pro-
&isnot be remedied, nor the wants s-applied, by other means feseore in the normal school were Catholics, and that the ut-
than by a vote for education."
mos t tolerance was manifested to all the Catholics attending
But I have other testimony from inspectors of schools, the ,ea ntonal schools."
showing that we cannot go on as we aro. The voluntary ".le I Prussia every complete elementary school neces-
system is breaking down, and the only legitimate mode of sarily- comprehends the following objects:-1. Religious in-
providing education for the people is by calling on them to strut ti on as a means of forming the moral character of chil-
contribute a rate for the purpose. (Hear.) But I think dren a wording to the positive truths of Christianity. 2. The
these rates should ba assisted by public grants from the Gen ca; a language. 3. The elements of geometry, together
Consolidated Fund, and that the whole burden ought not with ttie general principles of drawing. 4. Calculation and
to be thrown oo the local rate. (Hear.) Therefore, in praci j cal arithmetic. 5. The elements of physics, geography,
every case where the locality is called upon to provide a genes aal history, and especially the history of Prussia. 6.
certain amount by rates, the public funds of the country Siugi re g. 7. Writing. 8. The simplest manual labours, and
shall contribute in a fixed proportion. (Hear.) And this some I estructions in husbandry, according to the agriculture
proposal is perfectly consistent with the course at present of the : respective parts of the country.
pursued. (Hear.) Sir, I feel that the next proposal I "It was long debated in France how the difficulties arising
shall have to make may, more than any other, give rise to from r, eligious differences should be overcome—whether they
a difference of opinion ; bat the most anxious study I should I attempt to -establish separate schools for all the diffe-
could,give to the question has convinced me that the edu- rent set 3ts of Christianity ; whether they should open the
cation of the country ought to be free. (Hear.) I pro- schools to all these various sects, and banish from them all
pose, then, that all new schools shall be free schools, and religi out ; instruction ; or whether they should open the schools
that whenever scholars are sent by the board to existing to th ati ifferent Christian persuasions, and commit the ma-
schools there shall be no charge for theireducation. (Hear.) nage; nen tof each to a master chosen from the most numerous
lam well aware that upon this point a difference of opinion sect i a the department or commune of which it was the nor-
may exist ; but I think one of the weakest of the argu- mare eeelementary school. . . .- They (therefore) adopted
meats of those who contend that education ought not to the t Ord alternative, and resolved to place each of the rmrmal
be free, is, that the poor do net value education unless they schoi its of the different departments, and each of the primary
pay for it. (Hear.) This argument I hold to be incon- ache( is of the different communes, under the management of
sistent with human nature; fora man is glad to get agood a tea ewer selected from the most numerous Christian sect in
thing for nothing if he can. The error arises, I bz.lieve, the d i-partment or commune in which the school was situated.
from the fact—first, that we only know free education in They further arranged that the parents who differed in reli-
this country as conneeted with endowed wheels, the edu- gion i 1• om the master or director of the school should have the
cation in a greater part of which is of an inferior quality; power- of requiring their children to absent themselves dur-
and, secondly, that the population confound education so ing th 5r i periods of religious instruction. . . . So far from
conducted with pauperism. (Hear.) But the education religiCt4as education being overlooked in France, it is constantly
of the poor relates not only to the individual himself ; it reform( Ito in the different decrees on the subject of education
relates to the interest of the state—(hear)—and in this as of th c most deep and momentous importance ; and the re-
view every example and precedent leads me to the convic- ligioun education and moral character of the candidate mas-
tion that a free education is the best. Let us look to what ters are, strictly examined into before they can receive their
has occurred in America in connection with this very eines- breve ts de capacite, enabling them to conduct primary
tion of free education. In Philadelphia, in 1835, there schouls."
were 9,346 scholars in free schools, because those schools Now, V have given you examples of both Protestant
were inferior ,• but the result of reforming them was that and ( fL.Violic nountriesin favour of the system—a system
private schools became almost superseded; and in 1845, whichin them all has been attended with the most
instead of 9,346, there were 36,665 free scholars in Phila. perfe,,,t success, and which I venture to advocate. But is
delphia ; while in 1852 the slumber had risen to 49,035. this p.n noiplo unknown in England? By no means. It.
This occurred on depriving the schools of their pauper cha- has bee a tried in England. I haver on more than one °e-
recter, and showed that immediately they were thrown sion dry two attention to the signal success of the laudable
open to, all classes gratuitously, the objection that the exertiot is of the present Bishop of Manchester, when ut
people cared little for that for which they did not pay was the ho: ,d of that splendid school called King Edward's
triumphantly met. In New York the question of free and School. (Hear.) In that school no dissenting child had
non-free schools was also the subject of great discussion the relit ions doctrines taught there forced upon him. The I
and division of opinion ; but the people of New York de- practical ' result has been this, that the children of every
tided, by an overwhelming majority, -that the schools religious, denomination freely came to participate in the
should be free; and there are 700,000 scholars at this time advantai ;es of that school, and religious dissension was ut-
deriving the benefit of a free education, or one in five of terly nn known there. (Hear, hear.) At the present mo-
the whole population. (Hear, hear.) In Austria and ment th e same system was going on there and prospering.
Holland the education is entirely free ; and I believe Well, I .ask what reason can be given against the intro-
that if you make education free in this country you dnctio a a such a system generally into this country which
will promote its - interests, and that the whole system has be en. found to work BO advantageously in the other
will be a better and sounder one than -if -You persevere in countriles I have mentioned? It seems to me that if hon.
taking the existingochool pence from the scholars. In gentlemen will only approach the subject in the spirit of
the countries where the free system does not prevail candour and fairness, there is no difficulty in it which can-
those who are poor are allowed to attend free ; but it not be, easily surmounted. Even the large number of
would be difficult in this country to test who is and who schools. connected with the National Society do not insist
is not able to pay, and the soundest plan will, therefore, upon th e teaching of the Church Catechism in the case of
be to decide that education shall be free. This proposal,' Dissenting children. I,- therefore, submit to the house,
however, is not essential to my bill, and I throw it out for looking' to the precedents of other countries, and the diffi-
the consideration of the house. Sir, another, and, as I culties of the subject in this oonntry, that this is the true
think, an important element in nay bill, is that it does not solution of those difficulties. I will no longer detain the
interfere with existing schools or with existing interests. house. I have now explained the whole of the grounis
(Hear, hear.) We must not lose sight of what education upon which I think it is the imperative duty of radis-
hes effected, of the exertions of benevolence, or of the fact ment to legislate upon this subject. This bill may be un-
that in a great many instances the education is good. Bat successful in passing through this house, but I feel the
I wish it to be understood that I interfere with no existing deepest conviction that the importance of the question will
interests ; but that it shall be optional with every existing be increased more and more, and that ore long it must be
school whether it will or will not come in union. If it do settled even a principle to the one I now submit. Sir, I
not come within the union it will remain precisely where am willis ig to incur the risk of failure upon a question of
it now is ; but if it come into the union, I shall respect such importance. (Hoar.) lam confident that even
every existing school, on the condition, however, that the arsorgst my own friends I will be told that I have gone
school shall be periodically inspected, and that they shall too f. sr—Churchmen may say that I concede too much,
submit to the provisions of the act with respect to religi- while Dissenters will, perhaps, say that Ido not go fat
ous teaching. The question of religious teaching I feel to be enowei. Well, I have endeavoured, with a sinlge-minded
the most important of all, and the one most surrounded object, to deal with the question in a spirit of fairness and
with difficulty; but I venture to ask the house whether justice to all classes and creeds; and in this spirit I now
the dreadful state of things I have portrayed does not do- ask fer leave to introduce this bill. Be its fate what it
mend that we should approach this religious difficulty in may, be its consequences to myself what it may, I shall
the spirit of forbearance and moderation. There are two still possess groat satisfaction in knowing that I have
pat ties in this country—the one to which I myself belong, always endeavoured to make my contribution to a subject
insisting on the imperative necessity of religious teaching ; upon ' which I conscientiously believe that the welfare,
the other insisting on the secular system. I confess, sir, I the character, and the happiness of this country de-
canuot understand what the secular system is. Ido not pends„ (Cheers.)
understand whether the subject of religion is to be banished The SPEAKER having put the question,
altogether, or that the Scriptures only shall be read and Mr. HADFIELD opposed the bill. After referring to
doctrinal teaching be reserved for separate training. But I the progress which education had made within the last few
ask the advocates of the secular system, first, to consider years, he proceeded to advocate the importance of estab-
the fact of our our haying an Established Church ; and, lishing Sunday schools in preference to day schools ; be-
secondly, that the immense majority of the people of this cause the difficulty of getting children to attend day schools
country are attached to that Church. (No, no, from was se great that he did not believe that the number of
Mr. Hadfield and the Nonconformists, and counter scholars would be greatly augmented if day schools were
cheers.) Sir, I approach this subject with the most much increased. -He believed that it was the common de-
dispassionate intentions, the most disinterested oh- sire of persons of all creeds to promote the course of educe-
jects. (Hear, hear.) I know it is a question whether tion, but he was convinced that the object could never be
the aggregate of Churchmen do or do not prepon- aocomplished by rates and taxes. There could be no real
donate over dissenters, and that turns on the omission in success unless the voluntary system was adopted, and he
the census to classify large numbers of the people—(hear) believed that compulsory rates, so far from assisting edu-
-but no one will deny that the Church is in an overwhelm- cation, would only retard progress and damage existing
ing majority as compared with any other denomination. institutions. He was afraid that neither this bill nor that
Mr. Horace Mann gives a census of the actual proportion of thenoble lord the member for London would meet with
of the schools of the Church and of dissenters. the approbation of the country.
Mr. HADFIELD—Day schools.
Lord STANLEY. said, it- would-be eqiially difficult
Sir J. PAKINGTON—Yes; and I find the total of day
schools of the religious bodies to be 12,700 ; and the day and superfluous for him to follow his right hon. friend
schools of the Church, 10,555 ; Independents, 453 ; Roman through the vast variety of important details which he had
Catholics, 339 ; and Wesleyans, :381. We have, then, discussed, but he wished to take:this, the earliest opportu-
-10,555 schools in connection with the Church of England nity of expressing in the strongest and most decided man-
as compared with 12,700 of the various religious bodies. ner his approval of and adhesion to the general principles
But, sir, we must not only consider the Established Church,
upon which his right hon. friend had attempted to settle
but the feeling of the country. (Hear, hear.) Assuming
for the moment the secular system to be the best, I believe this question. The present time was most eminently fa-
that if you attempted to force it on the people of this coon- vourable for the settlement of this controversy; thnetate of
try, they would reject it. (Hear.) I maintain that the feel-
ing of England is against the secular system, and that you feeling was different in many respects from what it had
been a few years ago, and there was upon all sides a grow-
ought to teach religion in your schools. The question then
arises how to secure religious teaching, and reconcile it
ing desire to effect some compromise and to make some
with the most scrupulous regard for the conscientious feel- sacrifice in order to come practical arrangement. Some
n,
ings and opinions of dissenters. (Hear, hear.) The plan theories which were verys to a
curr_e',
and after discussion had
i
a few years ago had been
I would venture to propose is, that schools in connection fully and frequently
_ discussed,
with every denomination recognised by the Committee of been coudemn ed by a majority both in. Parliament and in
Council—whether Baptist, Presbyterian, or anything else-- the country. For instance, the voluntary system a few
shall be equally entitled to claim the benefit of this act; but years ago was
subject to this indispensable condition, that no child shall would not enter much more popular than at present ; he
but ho
into the
wasq n d
question
hoe far' it could
neofiprincoiplewithregard
be excluded from any school on account of its religions to thatt system,
views. This I would apply equally to the Church and
bee at all the education bills which had emanated
be adopted, and he thought it was impossi-
the dissenters. With regard to supplying educational defi-
leto
every section of the house, without seeing that '
eiencies by the creation of new schools, I have been told from
e purely voluntary system was now supported by a very
that my measure would have been better had I struck out
this part of my proposal; but, looking at the present state small minority. The hon. member for Oldham (Mr. Fox),
1852, introduced with great ability an education bill
of education in this country, I think every plan would be
in
founded on the secular system ; a measure had also been
incomplete which would not provide for new schools, fou
introduced by the noble lord the Colonial Secretary ; and
My proposal is, that the religions teaching of such schools
now another one had been brought forward by his right
shall be in accordance with the religious feeling of the dire
hon. friend, all of them, although differing in other re-
trict in which they are situated; that if a majority of
spects, recognizing the principle of State interference,
district is in favour of the teaching of the Church, it shall
shall
which principle had, therefore, i n his opinion, been adopted
be taught—subject to the condition that Dissenters
by a majority of the house. ,(Hear.) They had for all
practical purposes got rid of the purely voluntary theory,
not be excluded from the schools ;but if the religious m
jority of that district entertain another. belief, then that
Next came the purely secular principle•
gsoromuntidchofof
the mischiefapect
whichtolth it, hed
• This, again, he
the school shall be in accordance, with it, subject to-
woultdsaayr
strong feelings were entertainedpriwnitchiplree and, a ouh
the same rules that all Church scholars should be re
been
ceived into the school. The hon. member for Manchester
thatgu eu
phoens etehne
111):itentesnrdigonnoeratnoceouinr populationlwabho.cuhrinthgeyta had
(Mr. Bright), in a speech at Manchester, at the commence-
by the gross and
ment of last year, had admitted the importance of teach-
u e i
left, that be was
any feasible plan that would
ing religion to thechildren. . He said—
prepared to support almost
give them the elements 9 f_knowledge, or at least enable
"He could not see any connection necessarily between re-
them to acquire knowledge themselves. (Hear, hear.)
ligion and arithmetic, for example, or between the doctrines
He believed, however, that in the present state of! feeling
of Christianity and any of those other matters which formed
in this country the secular system was one which it would
the ordinary branches of education. He admitted, of course,.
that if a man was thoroughly educated—and, speaking in a
_beoti,tte,rly impossible to carry out. In the first place, it
Christian country, he might add, if ho was a complete Chris-
7itilln be opposed by the clergy of all denominations, num-
erng
ian man—he must not only have that instruction which was
to be obtained in the ordinary routine of schools, but he u in England and Wales alone, 15,003 able, active,
must also have, from some source or other, a training and and educated men, exercising great influence in their re-
a:situation i 3 reati. .of ; , ' °:-oili,il3',, ; bet then there . spective localities. The feeling of the great mass of the
were nii sort of k- . ' , „,: ri.'4,.•:.;e11i,,,5; .e,f rclibiou I laity Was also against a System 10-li011;ii•I not include souse
and the teaching of those things as regarded the place where mixture of religions teaching. Some persons w hotohuolude
gtt
they were taught or the teacher by whom they were taught.'
that a non-denominational system was the best w
In a subsequent part of his speech the hon. member says—Willing, for the sake of
in the feeling 15
of the country, but
securing it, to wait or 20 years
'until a change took place
- ,' The question was, why Was it ttl§t 4 VBOl4 which was that ct hilt view, Tao was Waling W work wails!
_ was ra
--- - •