The Sun.
London, England, 1855-04-25 00:00:00

ARMY BEFORE SEBASTOPOL COM-
MITTEE.

morning at ne
The Committee re-assembled yesterday
usual hour.

His Grace the Duke of Newcastle was re-called and
his examination was resumed by Mr. Layard.
He stated :—I found considerable difficulty as Secre-
tary for War in the forms in transacting business with
some of the subordinate departments ; which answer
applies to the whole period of my holding office, as well
before as after the separation of the Secretaryships for
War and the Colonies. I superseded some of these
forms in the medical department, 'which-was an exercise
of my personal authority. To obtain such a thing -as
medical comforts, the- applications had le be made
through so many office's that I deemed it sometimes ne-
cessary to do away with these formalities. What
I meant by the subordinate departments were
those under 'me as Secretary for War. With
regard to the Ordnance, the delays which arose, and
which I readily admit did occur, did not occur from any
difficulties as to forms, but from'a mi,conception in the
mind of the public as to the proper war department to
apply to. A vast number of inventionsand improvements
from practical and mechanical persons as well as from
others, and it was the custom to submit these to a mili-
tary committee at Woolwich. Many useful inventions
were delayed in consequence of the accumulation of
work upon the committee. This delay I tried to avoid,
by classifying the inventions and forming a series of
sub-committees.
Mr. Layard—ls your grace aware whether any inven-
tion' which vas submitted to the Ordnance, and which
might have been useful to the army, was delayed ?
Duke of Newcastle—Yes, unnecessarily so. I have
little doubt that many inventions were not investigated
for causes I have already mentioned until some time
after they had been submitted.
Mr. Layard—Did the same difficulties exist at the
Horse Guards ?

Duke of Newcastle—To a certain extent • but they
did not arise from routine of forms so much as a large
subdivision of offices.
Mr. Layard—What was the nature of your Grace's
relation with Lord Hardinge. I mean did you in any
way consider it your duty to consult him in reference to
instructions you sent to Lord Raglan ?.

Duke of Newcadtle—There waii.nothing to compel me
to consult Lord Hardinge in all matter+ relating to the
direction of the war; the Secretary of War is always
supreme. But in my own case, if I required an opinion
on strictly military points, I naturally referred to Lord

Hardinge for advice.
Mr. Layard—Then in your correspondence generally
with the Commander-in-Chief you did not think it neces-
sary, out of courtesy, to submit it to Lord Hardinge I
Duke of Newcastle—Certainly not. I believe it is
the usual practice in the time of war for the Secretary
for War to give all directions personally. There was no
official regulation, at all events, which rendered it in-
cumbent on me to submit my instructions to Lord Har-
dinge ; and it was always the practice for the Secretary
for War to communicate with the Commander-in-Chief
abroad, and not the Commander-in-Chief at home.
Examination continued.—When I sketched out a plan
for a military campaign I showed it to Lord
Hardinge, lout I did not hold him re•pon-ible

for anything contained in my despatches. The Com-
mander•in-Chief abroad was not responsible for the
movements of the troops, but he certainly was for their
ordinary clothing, of which, however, I myself took a
general supervision. The appointments to the Ordnance
were made by the Crown, and the chief officers were

usually removable by the Government. Much improve-
ment bad, however, of late taken place in this depart-
ment, and there appeared to be less disposition to
change than formerly. When Lord Raglan went
out to the East he held the office of Master-Gene-

ral of the Ordnance, which office he still retained, with
Sir 11. Ross as deputy. lam of opinion that the whole

Ordnance system requires revision. I had no control of
the navy ; all blockades were under the direction of the
Admiralty, and if the want of blockades had interfered
with military regulations I should, of course, have called
the attention of the First Lord of the Admiralty to the
circumstance.

Lord Seymour—Your Grace has stated that there
was no blockade in the Black Sea, although it has been
stated that orders were despatched that there should be
such a blockade. Do you mean that that arose from
political and not from naval causes ?
Duke of Newcastle—Quite so.
Examination continued—The general conduct of the
army Ns as under the control of Lord Raglan, and he was
responsible.
Mr. Layard—Lord Lucan in his evidence stated that
at the period at which the army was suffering the greatest
need, he offered to Lord Raglan to organise a proper
and efficient ambulance ccwps, and that the reply he re-
ceived from the Adjutant-General was, that the subject

was under the consideration of the Government at ho-me.

Now, had Lord Raglan power or not to have adopted
this offer en the spot without further instructions from

home ?

Duke of Newcastle—He had undoubtedly power to
have done so bad he considered it did not affect his respon:

sibility. The power of the Commander•in-Chief was of
course unlimited so far as it did not affect his responsibi-
_ _

lity. 1 have little dotal that. Lord Raglan felt that ono
system of ambulance having been adopted it was neces-
sary to have further instructions from home before mak-
ing any change ; but I du not recollect any application
of the kind having been made from him to the Govern-
ment.

his Grace was then examined as to the hospital pre-

partitions made in the El 4, in reference to which he
denied the statements of Dr. Smith that he hid given
him no inAtruetions to direct the establishment of hos-
pitals. He stated that he was in the habit of seeing
Dr. Smith every day on the subject. No written
instructions, however, passed between them for
various reasons. His grace then went on to repeat
his statement of yesterday that be had received no offi-
cial intimation as to the deficiency of hospital accommo-
dation or medical comforts. All be heard on the sub-

ject was through the public press and private sources ;
upon which, although he had no reason to act, he
nevertheless considered ;t his duty to take steps to ame-
liorate their condition. Whenever he saw anything in the
press he was in the habit of calling upon Dr. Smith for

explanations.
Mr. Layard—Can your grace mention any instances
in which you so called upon Dr. Smith for explanations?
The Duke of Newcastle—Yes. The first case was the
deficiency of port wine, the second was the non-delivery
of cholera-belts to the troops, whioh had been provided
as a precaution. I cannot say whether the medical de-
partment was responsible for these instances or not. I
heard a subsequent complaint of the mode in which the

sick and wounded were treated after their arrival at

Scutari after the battle of Alma. This complaint was
made to me through a private source. With regard t►►
what I saw in the public prints I cannot say that I took

it all to be entirely correct ; indeed, as D. Smith has
already stated, I could scarcely believe that so much
culpability existed as was described.

Examination continued—lmmediately the propriety
of hospital•ships being established was suggested to me,
I made representations on the subject to the Admiralty.
Mr. Layard—ls it your belief that what you read in
the public journals was in the main correct as to the
state of the hospitals ?
Duke of Newcastle—lt is of course difficult for me to
speak on that point. My belief is that the state of the
hospitals was not by any means what it ought to have
been.

Mr. Layard—Mr. Macdonald in his evidence stated
that when he waited upon your Grace, previous to his
mission to the East to administer the Time fund, that
you offered him some discouragement. Is that so ?
Duke of Newcastle—l think the term discouragement
which you make use of is scarcely correct or borne out
by my conversation with Mr. Macdonald. I never dis-
couraged him in any way. I simply told him, when hA
waited upon me, that I had made very careful Inquiries
of those responsible at Scutari for the performance of the
duty which he said he was going out to perform, and
that the assurances they had given me led me to hope
that, the statements he made to me were not correct, and
I further informed him that I had sent out only recently
the fullest authority to Lord Stratford de Redcliffe to
use every exertion and spare no expense to remedy any
wants which might be felt in the hospitals, and that I
hoped his lordship's exertions would obviate the necessity
of Mr. Macdonald's journey. I however said that any
facility which I could give him, except authority in the
hospitals, which I could not afford him, I should be most
happy to do.

Mr. Layard here read from the official copy of the
evidence Mr. Macdonald's account of the nature of this
interview, which his grace said was very fair and candid.
Examination continued—l do not think Lord Strat-
ford do Redcliffe was responsible for any neglect or want
of proper precaution in the hospitals. Be had no au-
thority over the hospitals, which were strictly under
military control. I consider the authorities on the spot
were responsible for the filthy stateof the hospitals. It will
be found that scarcely two opinions agree as to the origin
of the evils existing at Scutari; I think the blame attaches
to almost all the persons connected with the hospitals.
Dr. Smith bad every power of direction granted to him
in reference to the hospitals, but if other people did not
obey his instructions. Ido not think Dr. Smith can he
considered responsible. lam aware tl at the 39th Regj-
ment was supplied with warm clothing from the Times
fund. That regiment with others arrived from a Medi-
terranean garrison, and was totally unprovidede otsioof
warm clothing ; but the Government bad noh d
clothing at Constantinople, and had not thaevereghpeundetnet
received clothing from he fund it would
wait until its arrival at Balaklava I
it advisable that a hospital should
I at first thought
be coed
blished in some salubrious spot,
of Rhodes but I found that there
to it ; and Smyrna was tbereforeem_lny
as
to its desirae
and
were
esteevde.ra liol3l3cotpi (Leda
this locality upon concurrentnties
hility, but the fir-t suggeistipo received on the subject
was from Mr. Stafford, A . .
5 I but it is, I under-
. that
bosipihr,e understood that
fever has broken out in
i. I
have received no intimation
of
bkilitni(ts hospital and of course I consider
of the woforakpinegcu:ifatr
establislient. I never heard
myself responsible fo •
you think that since the,,,sotavteenonf teltilet
of the spot being in any way unhealthy.
Mr. Layard—Do
hospitals came to the knowledge of the (1!
steps been taken to remedy the evils "!
of Newcastle—As far as lam concerned I did
all in my power, and no time was lest.
His Grace, in reference to his interviewsthat gentle.
with the
Hon. and Rev. Sidney Osborne, said that
,man in returning from Scutari, favoured him with two
long interviews, and offered a variety of Suggestions
which be (his Grace) at once adopted, and took imme-
diate steps to carry into effect.
at t
Examinat
heal io um
n the w resed—lthink a military commandant
heof hole of the hospitals is, if the pre-
sent system continues, very important ; but I do not
think it advisable that vtheeri should be under the control
' of
a medical 112411 tulles he were responsible to a military