The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-08 00:00:00

rendon admit., therefore, what is obvious to the common
sense of every ono who ever heard anything about Russia
or Turkey—except from the lips of the Prime Minister—
that what we nee seeking to obede is not absolute seen-
Hee, hut - tich conditien security os her circumstances,
and the circitinsteucee of her population, her government,
and of her geographicel position, reuder it possible for her
friends and allies to obtain for her. The preponderance
of Russia in the Black Sea as my Lon. friend the mem-
ber for the West leiding r. Cobden) showed the other
night, is a feet which all the Legetiation in the world
cannot get rid of. One of the public journals this very day
in commenting upon the speech of my hon. friend, admits
that he is right so far as the commercial interests of Russia
aro concerned, but the writer argues that there ought not
to be a political preponderance aso. But Ido not know
where we are to find a case in which a great commercial
supremacy has not been followed by a supremacy of every
other kind. The question now is, how is the present pre-
ponderance of Russia to cease? The noble lord the mem-
ber fer London (Lord J. Russell) referred the other night
to a proposition of the French Government, which does
net appear all distinctly upon the protocols, with re-
gard to making the !;kick See a neutral sea. That, I should
say, is a preposition so monstreue iu the present condition
of
it.l as nLestutirept
cieoe,til,iatherat sensibletihmeypzopositnn
i man
shoal of
Russia—the proposition to throw open the Straits. I am
Europe,2l, entertaintivl that
not about to say that we should have accepted that propo-
sition in preference to any ether, though I am about tei say
that it is for the true interest of Europe that those Straits
should be thrown open. But at any rate it must be ad-
mittee that the preponderance of Russia, in the sense in
which we now understand it, would be absolutely de-
stroyed if these Straits were thrown. open. Russia also
proposed that which would appear to be highly satisfactory
—viz., that with regard to the position and duration of
anchoz-ages that regulatio, a should be made by the Sul-
tan, in order to preclude any possibility of inconvenience
to his territory. If this had been carried out, then all na-
tions would have enjoyed the benefit, and would have re-
spected the privilege of the Ottoman empire. There was
another point which had not been referred to, which ap-
pears
to be a matter of very great importance, bearing, as
it did, upon a statement of the hon. baronet the member
for the Tower Hamlets (Sir W. Clay).. It had been pro-
posed that Russia and Turkey should enter into treaty be-
tween themselves only, but the other plenipotentiaries did
even if the proposition to be submitted not concur in such a proposition. Now, in reference to this
matter, I was astonished to hear the hon baronet say that
Rus-
sia were better than ours, it was better for us not to allow
were
soW frequent that
rose to explain, exopbslaeirvn,atbiount
observations such a proposition to be made direct to I cannot
and I might almost say politictatlledy
but say that I consider such z Turkey.
imtnTuorrkaley by
-- a view to be unstatesman-
like,RlGHT said—l understand the honne.sotbo.fare:oa‘oncrhedttehtr"oe
gallery.
B.
him.that he did 'not mean to say that which I
I think he will admit that I am
regardtin scribiaf tc;
construction upon his words. With togthneuteramis
proposed in the conferences, I must venture to read to the
house a statement made by Prince Gortsehakoff. It was
as follows :—" To ask from an independent power that 1t
should limit its force, is to-assail its rights of sovereignty
on its own territory. It is with a bad grace that they
would sustain the rights of the Sultan, and wish to attack
those of the Emperor of Russia." When the Cabinet of
Lord Aberdeen agreed upon terms, the object of them was
that the Black Sea straits should be thrown open, or at
least that the power of closing them should be relaxed;
and I presume that it was nountil after it was found that
Russia was opposed to them that it was deemed neces-
sary to change the terms, and to insist on theme in another
form. But at what cost do you propose to gain all this ?
You have lost I am afraid to say how many thousands of
men, who a year ago were dwelling among us as citizens,
interested in all the affairs of our social and political state ;
and in addition to those men you have lost in the last 12
months between 30,000 and 40,000 men, and 30,003,000/.
or 40,000,000/. Let them bear in mind this solemn fact,that
if they were to go from Chelsea to Blackwell, and from
Highgate and Hampstead to Norwood, and take everyman
of fighting age and put him to death, they wouldelot sacri-
fice a larger number of human lives than had already been
lost by the four nations engaged in the war. (Hear, hear.)
He would now ask the house whether or not they were
disposed to place implicit confidence in Ministers? He was
sure it was the wish of many that the direction of affairs
should be placed in the hands of men of greater solidity
and of better judgment—(a laugh)—let him point out one
or two cases which showed that Ministers were not entitled
to confidence. Take what they had been doing withAustrias
They declared it was of European importance that Hun-
gary should, remain connected with Austria, and that
Austria should continue to be a great conservative power
in the midst of Europe; but, at the same time, they had
been urging Austria to enter into the ruinous war with
Russia; although they knew that if Austria joined either
Russia on the one hand, or the Western Powers on the
other, in all human probability that great empire would
no longer be a solid conservative power in the midst of
Europe, but would be stripped of her Italian provinces
and her Hungarian kingdom, and deprived of every
element of peace and prosperity. (Hear, hear.) Re would
ask the noble lord's attention for five minutes to a country
called the United States of America. On Tuesday last
there were listening to the debates two distinguished men
who had filled the office of President of the United States
—a position not less in honour and dignity than that of
any crowned monarch on the surface of the globe. (Hear,
hoar.) The United States was precisely the country which
was running the race with us iu power and greatness. Its
nopalation at the next census would exceed that of the
United -Kingdom. In its manufactures and its general
industry it was by far the most formidable rival that
the manufacturers of this country could meet with.
That country had ten steamers for our one. Her
magnificent steam-ships came across the Atlantic in a
shorter time than the steam-ships of this country, and
the finest vessels sailing from England to the Austra-
lian colonies had been built in the United States. In
ship-building they were, therefore, in some respects, ex-
celling this country. Now let the house look at our posi-
tion this year as compared with that of the United States.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer required 86,000,0001. to
carry on the various departments of the Government and '
our vast military expenses. The United Slates had at this
(moment in her treasury enough to pgy off all her debts,
Taking into account all the expenses of -the United States
Government, and deducting that expenditure from our
86,000,0001., it will be found that we are raying 75,000,0004
more than the people of the United States. Honourable
gentlemen knew what it was to run a race weighted. He
had heard of one horse that won every race up to a certain
time. That horse was once weighted and lost that race,
and it was stated in the annals of the turf that that horse
never won a race afterwards. eLanehter.) If that was
true of a horse, it, was much room true of a nation. When
a nation once stepped backward it was difficult to recover
its position, and if another nation, had passed it in the
race, it was almost impossible ever to come up with it
again. They had not hitherto crippled Russia, but they
had destroyed Turkey.; they have not hitherto saved
Europe or its independence and civilisation, they have only
succeeded in convulsing it ; and so far from having._ added
to the renown and honour of England, they had- placed
that honour and 'renown in the greatest peril. (Hear.)
The Ministry seemed to think little of taxes ; and to them
might well be applied 'the rebuke which Necker admini-
stered to a lady of the court of Louis XVI., who angrily
remonstrated with him for refusing to give her a sum of
money from the public treasury, and asked him, " What
can 1,000 crowns be to the king?" " I,oeo crowns," an-
wered the minister, " are the taxes of a whole village."
(Hear.) What, he would ask, were the increased taxes of
this kingdom ?. They were the absence of furniture and of
clothing in many cottages in Lancashire, Suffolk, and Dor-
setshire ; the absence, perhaps, of medical attendance on a
sickly wife ; of the school pence for three or four little chil-
dren ; they were hopelesetoil to the father of the family, pen_
ury throughout his life, and a cheerless old age. (Cheers.)
Let the house, too, recollect that that which struck
down the children of the cottager, attacked, also, the
children of the palace. If they darkened the homes and
destroyed the hopes of the population in the humblest
dwellings of the country, they would also darken the pro-
spects of those children, the offspring of our Queen, in
whom are bound up so much of the interests and so many
of the hopes of the people of this country. (Cheers.) The
hon. gentleman proceeded—" We who sit on this bench
are willing to place ourselves alongside the noble lords who
are for carrying on this war without a definite object, and
apparently for an indefinite period ; we are willing to place
ourselves alongside them, and take our chance of the ver-
dict of posterity, whether they or we aro more deserving
of the character of statesmen for the course we have taken
on this question in this house. The house knows that the
people are misled, and that they are bewildered. They
know, too, that if every man in this house who doubts this
policy would boldly say so, it would not be in the power of
the press to mislead the people, as it has done for the last
twelve months. Then if the people are thus misled and
bewildered, does it not become the House of Commons to
speak with the voice of authority in this hour of peril?
We are the depositaries of the power, the guardians of the
interests of a great nation and of an ancient monarchy.
Why should we not fairly measure our responsibility ? and
disregard the small-minded ambition that struggles for
place. Why should we not, by a frank, and just, and
earnest policy, as I believe we may do, restore tranquillity
to Europe, and prosperity to the country which is so dear
to us." (Loud cheers.)
Mr. F. SCOTT rose to address the house, but being un-
able to obtain a hearing, he moved the adjournment of
the debate.

Mr. BARROW briefly opposed the motion for adfourn-
mtnt.

Lord PALMERSTON would not resist the wish of the
house for the adjournment of the debate, but he hoped that
if the debate was adjourned the house would seriously de.
terruino to come to a decision on the following evening.
On the question of the adjournment being put, there
were a large body of " Noes," and a division was called
for; but none took place, and the debate was adjourned to
this (Friday) evening.