The Sun.
London, England, 1855-08-10 00:00:00

THE LATE MR. HUME.

W. WILLIAMS wished to ask the First Lord of
tho !Creasury whether he intended to recommend that a
sta to eof the late Joseph Hume shall be placed in the palace
of Westminster amongst those of distinguished British
pa' ;rii >ts, or the adoption of some other means for comme-
mc xa; HAIR his eminent public services ?
"Jo: rd PALMERSTON expressed the great respect he en-
ter tai fined for the late Mr. Hume, but said that as no pro-
pof at ion on this subject had been brought under the cala-
sh] er ation of the Government he was unable to give any
fur tU er reply to the question.

M ETROPOLIS LOCAL MANAGEMENT BILL.
Ch e Lords' amendments to this bill were considered, and
agz ee dto with two or three exceptions. The only one of
an: r :importance was that with respect to the appointment
of th e chairman of the Metropolitan Board of Works. As
the z I went up to the House of Lords, the appointment
wa Fl • 7ested absolutely in the board itself. The upper house
int ro duced a provision rendering it incumbent on the board
to submit three names to the Secretary of State for the
He ,ni o Department, who should select one from amongst
th( im .

It. GROSVENOB. thought it inexpedient to agree
to th is amendment.

• G. GREY agreed with his noble friend. He thought
th ,t the effect of the amendment would be to diminish the
ret pa nsibility of the Board of Works, without giving the
Set ;re tary of State any effective control over the appoint-
= int of chairman.

rh a amendment was accordingly disagreed from.
NAVAL GOVERNMENT.

i -29 ptain SCOBELL moved for a select committee to in-
qu it o into the government of the navy relating to the list
of officers, patronage, promotion, and the efficiency of the
se wine in all its grades. Ho did not expect that the com-
m Mee, if appointed, could enter upon the investigation
II is session, and his chief object in rising was to obtain an
a: ;surance from the Government that some inquiry would
to he place, or au expression of opinion from the house thl
al I inquiry ought to be made. The system of pronitiowe in
tl to navy was in the most unsatisfactory
f, untied on patronage and political influence,;
cd admi-
n ot hesitate to say that the naval service reclui:c The
d ho did
u istrative reform ftr snore than the civil ser 1 o_. c
ii ti,management of the navy four First
ft ict chat there had been no
was aecroutnet for by the
fQawned that there were
I ords within the last few years,
te_.Aelintiiralty now living
a bove a dozen secretaries of should ho the
h eginning with Mr. Croker. 111
motion in the naval
o my passport to office andHP
-ar°was no enemy of the Ber-
N.- ice, as everywhere else.
and political influence should aervi:,
t. ,cracy, but family
paper found under his will,
and the
given up the_ better. S'
o btain for any man service under the Crown,n -.:
fir George
s. ooner such a system was
he considered
( ,ockburn, in the vrell-kn°"
s Is ted as the result of his experience that
the Admiralty t
Ito comtitution of_ Board to be
the least efficient for its most un-
, a isfectory, and
~: r ,Id be devised, and that he thought the Purpose that
.. '- • mans ement of
th a navy shouldng office r
be transferred to a g
and two
a, u, icillors, with one comptroller, who should have a seat
in p arliament, and attend to the financial business of tho
dope rtment. He quoted extracts from speeches by Lord
Pain ierston and Mr. Disraeli against placing the army in
the h ands of a civilian, and allowing its patronage to be
dispe used from the Treasury
the naval
and contended that
servic e naval as well as the military
n• In 1800, we had 167 sail of the line in commission ;
now v ,e had only 43.
had only Then we had 120,000 seamen and ma-
rines ; now we
40,000. Then we had 99 admirals;
now 'et e had no fow,
than 272, and that, too, after a forty
yead Peace. It was'a rule of the Admiralty that no officer
covg be wade an admiral until he bad served six years as

a post captain. But many officers found it impossible,
however willing, to serve sixl years as post-captaini, and
they were consequently not in a position to be made admi-
rals. From January, 1850, there had been 37 captains
made active admirals, but 113 had been condemned to re-
tirement, and that from ro wish or fault of their own. He
did not intend to refer to individual cases of hardship, but
he might mention that the late Cant: Ch.tistie vvaB 31. years
in risin, to the same point whiali Ad miralDundaS rsttained
in 9. fn 1847, 1848. and 1-49 there were 50. captains 1 ro-
-meted, - -Of these;-13 -r-2erve3- only Irani 2to 5_ years as
-crenmandera, and as lieutenants na fro sto /2 :years abut in
the same years he found in the Xaey List the nn es of
officers who had served from 10 to 29 years as com-
manders, and from 17 to 32 as lieutenants. We had
twice as many commanders now ,as in 1800. There
were at present 549 active commanders,.
_off' whom
Omit '420 had been from thirty-to-fifty Years:in the navy,
:and the number of- retired commanders was 570, Of the
ictiVe commanders ih6 were employed on halfipaya sys.
tern to which there was no parallel in the army. He now
came to the lieritenants. In 1800 there.were 2,157 lieuten-
, ants in the navy;` we had nos' 1,175" active lieutenants,
and 1,713 retired. Some of the latter had no more than
4s. a day ; but the general pay was 55., es., and 7s. less
than that of retired officers of similar rank in the army.
About two thirds of .:the lieutenants never got promoted
at all. With respect to the first lieutenante, there were 90
men in the navy now who were lieutenants in the last war,
and a large proportion of them had medals, some two or
three. He could name 70 captains who entered the service
after these lieutenants. On the retired list of lieutenants
there were 700 or 800, and of those 300 had been in ac-
tion. - He thong-belie had made pretty sure that the house
would take some,-interest in this body of ,men. Re had
no wish to fiX the forms of inquiry-; if a commission
was preferred to a committee-Df- the house he should
-lave no objection to it, as all he wanted was to see
the facts inquired into. (Hear, hear.) There was another
point he must draw attention to, and that was this—too
- many cadets were allowed to enter into the navy, because,
under the existing system, out of the largo number that
entered every year not more tha4La tithe could get on. His
objeCtion on this head applied as ranch to what was the
practice before the war began as to the present time. The
entries were vastly disproportioned to the promotions, and
that was one of the great causes of the evil. (Hear.) He
had troubled the house with figures, but he believed they
were the best arguments for his case; and he hoped, as
they wore so irresistible, the Government would say that a
committee shall bo appointed next year._At all events, he
had no alternative but to leave the matter in the hands of
the house, in the full hope that ultimately some remedy
would be applied to these evils, either in the way of limit-
ing the mode of promotion to merit and service, or by ex-
tending the system of absolute retirement on pensions.
The safety of England depended upon the command of
the sea, and, therefore, it was of vital importance that
her navy should have fair play, which it could not be
said to have had for a long series of years. He was an ad-
vocate for an efficient but a small army, and with such
assistance the navy would always be able to defend the
country against her enemies. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. TUE seconded the motion. The opinion was gain-
ing ground that the patronage and management of the navy
should no longer be allowed to depend upon, political
changes, while the instances of maladministration at the
Board of Admiralty had become so glaring that some in-
quiry must be had with a view to devising a remedy for
the evils. (Hear.)

Sir C. WOOD had no intention of disputing the figures
which had been brought forward, and was far less dismsed
to question the motive which had induced the hon And
gallant member to make this motion-. No doubt his only
desire was to promote the interest of the navy, but at the

same time he 'must take leave to remind die' house that
only seven years ago this very subject, amongst others,
was inquired into by a select committee. He therefore
did not think that the appointment of another com-
mittee was called for. Every recommendation but one
which. Lord Seymour's committee made with regard to the
navy had since been carried out. A better committee for
the purpose could not have been appointed before, and ho
really could not see what advantage would be gained by
reviving a similar tribunal. (Hear.) The hon. and gallant
gentleman had insisted upon the importanceef promoting
old and melitot ions officers, while ho had urged the neces-
sity of constantly keeping young men in command ; but
the house would perceive that it was utterly impossible to
attain the two objects at the same time. On the whole,
the existing system, though faulty in some respects, was •
good in the whole, and the Board of Admiralty, generally
speaking, had administered it in an impartial manner. The
hon. and gallant member had made his comparisons with
1800, but that 'was hardly fair, because a long interval of
peace had since elapsed: At the end of the war there were
855 captains, 816 commanders, and 3,580 lieutenants.
Fifteen years afterwards the numbers wore 851 captains,
905 commanders, and 3,580 lieutenants,' and complaints
were made that the navy was as strong, after 15 years' peace,
as it was in a period of war; but to keep up theefficiency
of the service it was absolutely necessary that the same
system should be observed in time of peace as in a time of
war. All the men who had entered the navy,' ind who
were promoted at the end of the last war to the rank of
lieutenant, could hardly expect to advance further in the
service, because, in fact, there were-many more created
than could be employed,. In this way they had grown old,
and as the period of hostilities returned it could hardly be
avoided that younger and more active men should be ad-
vanced over their heads. The ,efficiency of the service

had been kept ill -during the7l;;;;pea;e,—;vliCl;Of
course bad made a reductiOn of unemployed °fibers
the 'mire difficult, but all the recommendations for:the

purpose which committees and, commissions had made
from time to time were now and had been, steadily
carried out. It was.not necessary for him to go over the
entire Navy List to make out his answer to this motion;
it was enough to state that the circumstances of war
served to create so many officers of the lower rank, that
it was quite impossible ever to find employment for them
in the higherranks ' • and having dated that it might almost
be said that he had disposed of the motion. The list being
then so exterli% e, and the field of employment so contracted,
how could it be otherwise than that men should remain, as it
were, neglected? But, if neglected they were, it was no fault
_of the system; it was the result of a period of war producing
more men than could possibly be reqnired in a time of peace.
And yet the hon. and gallant member wished the house to
believe that all this —Reaming neglect was attributable to
political or family influence. For his own part, he would
not defend the conduct of all past Boards of Admiralty, but
this he Veould say, he very much doubted whether a Go-
vernment gained any advantage by making their selections
from political motives. Re had not been long at the Ad-
miralty, and, therefore, he could not speak over-confidently
from experience, but in the appointments he had made he
'had not been influenced by family er political motives,
but by the fitness of the parties to fill the offices vacant.
NeVertheless many charges had been made against him -of
his being actuated by unworthy motives. For instance, the
first appointment he made was to give a sloop to a com-
mander ; he did so upon the representation of his collea-
gues in the Board, who represented the man whom he ap-
pointed to be am olcl and meritorious officer, and the one
best fitted for the command ; but although he did so, a few
days afterwards a letter appeared in the public prints, com-
plaining that his very first act upon taking office at the
Admiralty was to give employment to a relation. Not hav-
ing any relation in the navy beyond a youth of some 13
years of age, he was quite at a loss to discover how such
an impression could have got abroad ; but upon further re-
flection he traced it to the fact that the name of the officer
he had appointed, whom he did not know personally, was
Francis Wood. (Hear, and a laugh.) Every officer whom he
had appointed was a man of the highest character, and yet
he had been accused of the most atrocious mismanagement.
As an instance of the injustice of the charges which had
been made against him, he might mention the fact that
he had been charged by a noble lord with having
neglected the application of a certain gentleman, when
he fact was that no such person had ever applied. Of
the eight appointments which he had made he was quite
guiltless; of baying been influence I by the unworthy mo-
tives attributed to him. The hon, and gallant gentleman
said that many young men obtained their rank in a very
'short time. No doubt that was the case. But how could
there be young admirals unless young men were promoted ?
The question was, how could the country be best served ?
If no persons wore promoted but old lieutenants and
old commanders, the list of admirals must necessarily con-
sist Of old men. In 1851 his right hon. friend the member
for. Portsmouth (Sir F. Baring) created a reserved list. No
doubt the rule operated unequally in some cases. There
were many admirals on the active list who were perfectly
capable of service, but it was not quite clear that the re-
commendation that all persons should go off the admirals'
list at a certain age would be just. In 1848 there were
only 6 admirals on, the active list under 60 years of age.
Theie were now 17, 9 of whom were under 55. It
had been said that all the officers who obtained
rank wore persons of high position or Parliamentary
influence. Now, on looking through the list to which he
had just referred, ho found that of the 9 officals under 55
Sears of age, 3 had aristocratic or political influence,
whilst the other 6 had no such influence. The mass of
admirals on, the active service list had no Parliamentary or
aristocratic influence whatever. The system which had
been pursued had proved efficient' in bringing. down the
.
net of admirals to the prescribed number, and in proamq.
itie,r captains, whereby younger men were obtained a a?„
-iteration
bmeitrairs. ; alundthaeslotlhveer sryasntlesem, hwoewnetv earn,
to be done, but the matter required great Tannest effi-
and care. The service was at this time lm t
On the
cient state. Merit had not been overlooked.
g hat
fm4scierndotniha_sidones'boprm"h:putoht4reeubbfrd, that the
etthhyee,
Admi-
ralty, and from the admiral
' • down to thsi°toulWettih
con-
trary, it had been fostered by successivea: lidungwvoz.vomrk.sinstedin
one was fully competent to discharge" the44l: d s
fuYti everyes r
Cockburn
to ;
ritheinntever called upon they would.
honour,, aVE-Ici°,,seltAf3:-.t.afft4:7,roagr-, the subject now
was quite certain that w
s
under dis-
the 'Fi.rtit Lord of the Ad-
do credit ,to theraselYPl, 40heers.), ;
properquired mofehoimito.d
tNeeonbetterspir:do7o,feheoentritivirdbopeubteeropfff:reetedhs,et
• of defendingdiPlrtbat
bcoolindu4n:
..dep,thienatnodvethrawthhiiesh
rheecopnaremsuelnedda.
in eon-
but the fact was that that Fal-
nectioa the complained that he was overruled during
y project to the house,
his services at tioSnirs
indi
at
trfjt
oc
ic •
opposed
oar
sdi;
vn
itv.iiner submittedtmhe y.were _
eatin
SirslbmCiltetNlaPtoiertahttedhootuhseer.
oraveertnrubelerd
nSoirw.Go.reCoeocnktbruhorn
coujclenlighten the house that subject, was the hoo•men?'
berforiewes (Mr. Fitzroy). The present Board of Admiralty
ratpaitarnodt;.iamndagtihnee
wash vast improvement over former boardo,' when the ma-
jority were of the lay and civil class, and when naval offi-
cers were almost excluded. There was nothing to complain
of now with respect to the board except the system.
Was too powerful,
With respect to patronage he belieied that political influ-
enceplace- recommended that the sum paid for the and that some change ought to take
con-
veyance of treasure should be brought to the public ac-
count, and applied under the direction of the Admiralty.
In regard to the employment of admirals on the retired
list, the gallant admiral stated that when he applied Air a
ship he was informed that the timber was not cut to build
the ship, nor was the sheep killed whose skin was to supply
the parchment on which to write his commission. litany
officers were unable to obtain ships, and thus to comply with
the regulations required to be fulfilled before they became
admirals, because theyhad no infLuenceto enforce attention
whon7iyl hnh aoGder
to their wishes. He did not think that the eminent services
of the coast guard were sufficiently rewarded by protho.
tions.

Admiral WALCOTT concurred in many of the objec-
tions proposed by the hon. and gallant member for Bath
(Captain Scobell), and if he divided the house be should go
into the lobby with him. Ho had risen principally, how-
ever, to suggest that to relieve the First Lord of the Admi-
ralty of the weight of patronage of which he had so muck
complained, the naval lords should be made in fact, as
they were in theory, in all respects the advisers of their
political chief.
The gallant admiral was proceeding to other topleo,
an hon. member called attention to the state of the htse.
The SPEAKER counted, when there were only thin y•
urno4 at A quare
four members present, and the house adjo when
ter before eleven o'clock,

~~iA~