The Sun.
London, England, 1855-08-04 00:00:00

justice or necessity of the war, but also from those who,
having at first concurred in the justice and necessity of the
war, and having been parties in the embarking in it and
in prosecuting it up to a certain point, after wards thoueht
fit at a later period to declare themselves hostile to its fur-
ther prosecution. The hon. gentleman went further than
both these parties, and declared that in both the proposals
that were made, or in either of them, there were contained
satisfactory bases upon which negotiations might have been
renewed with a prospect of arriving at a safe and honoura-
ble peace. The Government were justified in rejecting both
proposals, and to prove that he need only refer to the papers
before the house. These papers not only showed the decision
which the Government came to, but gave in a clear and ex-
plicit manner the reasons which influenced that decision.
Bat as between the principle of limitation and the princi-
ple of counterpoise the hon. gentleman admits that the ba-
lance of argument is in favour of the former. He admits
that there was a great deal to be said on both sides ; while
it was equally clear that Lord Aberdeen, when in office,
went for the principle of limitation, to which at that time
even Austria professed to give the preference. True enough
Austria never declared that she should make the principle
of limitation an indispensable condition of peace ; but over
and over again she declared that the principle of limitation
was the one she desired to see adopted, because it would
lead to a satisfactory and complete solution of the Eastern

wee
ord said he had not been able to make himself master of • that it bad the appearance of a humiliating protection
gmhtoil.:
to-
their contents for want of time. than an
truce. He did n
Turkey, and after all,
say therel,itwouldwbeasnhoothwinegi
Lord J. RUSSELL had said the papers bad only just
reached him. these argumernttasi,n
lbutv t
hheeyt
dhiodu
ng ho
tt
jtuhsetyi hadfy
th be ereonn nit i
nuuc ha
nor ve c
or f-
rated, and ce
the war. As to the first, that of expense, we had to keep a
Sir J. PAKINGTON—One of these papers was a
, t
circular iespatch, addressed by Sir W. Denison, the
Mediterranean fleet at any rate, and he apprehended that
Governer-General, to the other Australian colonies, , in ordinary circumstances our course would be, whenever
proposing that they should subscribe 100,0001. to obtain we heard that Russia was increasing her fleet beyond the
steam communication. Another was an address of the specified number, to send one or two of
our ships upon a
Legislative Council of Victoria, stating that that colony cruise in the Black Sea. He
didnot think that would hi-
was ready to pay 50,0001. a year towards the expense of volve us in very great expense; but even supposing we
mope, or some-
therefore, wished to know what the Government wererenewed steam communication. He (Sir J. Pakington), were obliged to create a naval depot at S'
where opposite Constantinople, he•asked, what were we
doing in the matter, and how soon steam communication spending in the present war ? Why, we were spending about
50 millions extra every year of the war, and would not the
to Australia would be resumed ? Also, what flumer
interest of that sum suffice for a naval station in the Black
had been sent by the Government to the offer of the
Sea? As regarded the protectorate, he was afraid that was
colonists ?
an unavoidable condition, and that Turkey could not hope
to exist as an independedpower, without a certain amount
Mr. WILSON said there was no direct offer freni
Victoria with regard to the sum proposed by the Legis- of protection. With respect to the third argument—that the
litive Council. There was the circular of Sir W. Denison presence of several fleets belonging to different nations in
to the other colonies. The proposal of the Legislative the Black Sea would only be an armed truce—he could not
Council of Victoria was, that 'the Government should see why its pplied with more force to the Black Sea than
give 60,0001., and they wond give 40,0001., to carry cut to many pallel cases elsewhere. For a considerable time
after the Syrian war our relations with France were not
The only other paper
renewed steam communication.in a satisfactory condition ; large fleets on both sides were
kept in the Mediterranean ; but that state of things did
was an enclosure containing the resolution
lative Assembly, which had been sento
00i ,
iutotieSnireWf t.lie Denison,egia
not last long—it went off very quietly ; and he did not
,0 . on condition see why a different result should follow in the Black
stating they were ready to give 5
that the communication should be overland via the
Sea. Besides, nobody could suppose that English captains
Ceylon- route. There was, however, no distinct offer, and officers were so little subject to discipline that for any
and, therefore, there wp no reply.
The whole of the or no cause they would run the risk of plunging their coun-
papers bad been sent .s
to
vitehwe Postmaster General for his try in a war with Russia. (Hear, hear.) At the same
consideration, with the
of coming to an understand- time he was bound to state that if limitation could be car-
ing on, the subject. In the meantime arrangements were ried out as a general rule, it would be the best security for
the ..peace of Europe ; but he saw no reason why it
making in this country on the subject. Comraunica-
should be adopted in the Black Sea rather than in the
tions with_ the Peninsular and Oriental Company, which
Mediterranean or the Baltic. Turning to the plan of coun-
had been suspended, were
. revived, and they were called
terpoise, he thought the arguments in its favour were over-
upon to send in. an estimate. An offer was made to whelniing. In the first'ptace, ittiwas ‘eininentlyispractdca.l
perform the service for 80,0001., and that communica; plan, and it made it the interest of Russia herself to limit
Lion rested with the Postmaster General ; and as soon her forces in order to get rid of those of the allies, while
as anything was determined upon no time would be lost the plan of limitation made it her interest to evade its Al-
i, communicating with the Colonial Office. pulations, Again, under a proper planof limitation, if 10
Mr. F. FRENCH wished to ask if it was intended to years hence Russia..were to build more than the specified
=eke any change in the consular departments in the number of ships, he did not think we could act upon that
Levant ? information and make it a casus bell; whereas, under the
Viscount PALMERSTON replied that no intention plan
was of counterpoise, the moment we heard that Russia
increasing her fleet, we should send a corre-
at present existed to make any change. Communications. sponding number of ships into the Black Sea, and thus the
had been received from Sir J. M`Neil to the effect that danger would be met at once. It was likewise important
the consular establishments were in a state of complete to observe that the difference on which the Vienna nego-
efficiency, and all parties actuated by due zeal in the tdations were broken off was one of detail and not of prin-
discharge of their public duties. ciple. In the instructions given to the British plenipo-
The report of the committee of supply was agreed to. twittery, the plan of counterpoise was referred to as an
The Appropriation Bill was brought in and read a alteinative, though not a desirable one, and therefore it
first time amid much cheering. was unjust to assert that the noble lord - acted at Vienna
without authority. The conclusions of the noble lord
THE VIENNA CONFERENCES. throughout had been those of a statesman; and, so far
In rising to call the attention of the house to the subject from estimating his own position too highly, as had been
of the conferences, alleged against him, the only fault to be found with him
Mr. LAING stated that he had only brought forward was that he did not always act with sufficient firmness
this question under the strongest sense of duty. The de- and vigour upon his own judgment. Upon the whole, the
cision come to by the Government in regard to the non- preponderance of argument was in favour of counterpoise.
acceptance of the Austrian propositions for peace was one Russia, indeed, could not be expected to submit to the plan
of the moseimportant that bad ever been come to, and of limitation ; and there was great justice in,the remark of
yet, although it had been taken against the unanimous the British plenipotentiary, that it would not be expedient
opinion of the five plenipotentiaries who represented the to press galling conditions upon Russia, or to leave her in a
Allied powers at those conferences, and although the war discreditable position. But let them look for a moment
had now entered upon quite a now phase, and had entirely at the consequences which followed the rejection of the
changed its relation to the public opinion of Europe, no dis- Austrian proposal. If we had accepted that proposal we
cussion had taken place with respect to the policy pursued should have had either peace or the co-operation of Aus-
by the Government since the paners which afforded the tria ; for, notwithstanding the remark of the Home &ere-
. necessary information had been laid before the house. The tary, that Ministers rejected the proposal because they be-
only discussion that had taken place with respect to the lieved Austria was not sincere, there could be no doubt
policy pursued by the Government was on the motion of that when the proposal reached the shape of a mature pro-
the right hon. gentleman the member for Bucks. But that position, the Austrian Government had made up their
discussion was conducted, not only in a state of iguo- minds to submit it as an ultimatum to Russia, and, in the
ranee, but, what was worse, in a state of misinformation on case pf its rejection, to withdraw their ambassador from
the pert of the house as to what had really taken place at St. Petersburg, and once declare the rejection a casus
the Vienna conferences. It was then supposed that the belli. That really involved the question of the good faith
conferences had been broken up, because Russia had re- of Austria in those transactions. On that point there
fused to entertain the proposition of the allies for a limits- could be nothing more distinct than the testimony of the
tion of her power, and had proposed entirely unacceptable noble lord, who ought to know most about it, and who
terms of peaceoo that there was no hope of a satisfactory said that although she had not acted the part he could
conclusion. And when it was subsequently rumoured that have wished. still her conduct had been straigbtfor ward
Austria had'inade propositions of peace, it was supposed and intelligible, and there could be no well-founded
that these were only the Russian proposals for peace complaints of treachery against her. Austria said she
'slightly disguised -,- while the rumour by which it was ac- was as much opposed to Russian aggression as any
companied, that there were dissensions in the Cabinet on other power could be; but if the ends to be attained
the subject, was not credited. It was in this state of by-war could be obtained without war, she would . infi-
things that the right' hon. gentleman the member for nitely prefer that arrangement. That was an intelligible
Backs brought forward his motion, previous to which there and honest proposition on the part of a power like Austria,
was that meeting of the supporters of the Government in situated as she was with an exposed frontier, with oblige-
Downing-street which had been so froquentlo adverted to. tions to Russia for interference in 1848-49, and with a most
- Now, it was generally supposed that meetings of that kind painful financial position, which would be seriously aggra-
were of a confidential character, where the comm mei- vated by the consequences of even a successful war, seeing
cations of the Minister were more open than in that ho Ise; that even in peace she had an annual deficit of from two
-but he would appeal to honourable members whether to three millions. Besides, Austria was engaged in the
either then or in the discussion which subsequently took emancipation of her millions of peasants from their state of
place the whole truth was told by the Government? He serfdom under the feudal system, and in other internal ire-
-considered that there was a euppressio veal closely approsch- provements, which required a state of peace and tran quit.
ing a suggestio faki. The motion of the right hon. geotle- lity above all things, Her Majesty's Government, then,
man was discussed on an entire misapprehension of the arrived at the conclusion of rejecting the proposal. Had
real state of things. It never entered the head of any one those who advocated that cause fully considered the enor-
on that side of the house to suppose that a proposition had mous risks to which England and all the other powers of
been made by Austria, which the noble lord the member Europe were exposed by the continuance of the war ? lie
for the city of London considered perfectly satisfactory, would not dwell on those personal risks which might sp-
end that there was a division in the Cabinet on the subject. pear to civilians of much greater magnitude and import-
The subsequent discussion which took place, on the mot ion ante than to those who looked at the question from a
of the member for Sheffield turned entirely on the conduct military point of view. The resources of France and Eng-
of the noble lord the member for London, and that on the land, there could be no doubt, were greater than those of
motion of the hon. member for Sheffield upon the conduc. Russia, and if we would only submit long enough to the
of the war, so that he was perfectly justified in saying desagremens of war, we should carry our point. (Bear.)
that there had as yet been no discussion on the question The tipense incurred by the war was, however, a plain
whether the Austrian proposals afforded a basis for mak- and tangle sacrifice, which every one would appreciate.
ing peace. He brought forward this question now on ac- If the war were indefinitely continued for an indefinite ob-
count of what he knew with respect to the public opinion ject, we should undo all the good that the last many years
\
of Europe. Firmly connected with industrial undertak- had done, and we should load ourselves with the burden of
ins, he was able to ascertain the opinions not so much of a second national debt to no purpose. It must also be
professed politicians as of merchants, bankers, financiers, obvious to every one that the continuance of the war must
and manufacturers, who constituted the independent pub- finish in the exhaustion of the ally we undertook to suc-
lie opinion of Europe to a great extent on this subject. At cour. But was there no danger, also, to our alliance with
first the public opinion of this class of persona was, with France to be apprehended from a prolonged contest?
few exceptions, in favour of the course adopted by the Were there not to be seen in the war very obvious
-Western Powers in resisting the aggressions of Russia, but germs of dissidence between the two Western Powers ?
he believed their opinion was now opposed to the course Even the late unsuccessful attack on Sebastopol suf-
taken in not making peace on the terms suggested at ficed to produce grounds of mutual recrimination. But
Vienna. They said that when men of the eminence of the if the war should extend to Germany, there would arise
noble lord the member for the city of London and M. the danger to be apprehended from the French people
Drouyn de l'Huys were sent to Vienna, the proceedings as- getting inoculated with those *ideas of ambition and mill-
slimed more the characterof asnbraission toarbitration than tary conquest which formerly inspired them. The French
of an ordinary diplomatic congress; that we were now fight- pimple might naturally finish by saying that they were
ing against the award of our own arbitrators ; and that, making enormous sacrifices of all kinds in the war, and
unless the Austrian proposals contained the basis of a saris- they must have some advantage more material to them-
factory solution, it was incredible that the noble lord the selves than could arise from the questions of guarantee and
member for the city of London and M. Drouyn de l'lluys, counterpoise or limitation in the Black Sea. His (Mr.
: going to Vienna with opposite propositions, should have ar- (Laing's) opinion was that the war was looked upon as just
rived at the opinions they did, and in which they were sup- and necessary by all ,classes generally in Fracce, yet he
ported by the Turkish Plenipotentiary—the representative could not look without apprehension to results that might
of the Power most immediately concerned. An examine- arise at any time from a continuance of the struggle. And
' tion of the papers recently submitted to Parliament had if danger was to be apprehended to our relations with
led him (Mr. Laing) to a similar conclusion. In expressing France, much more was to be apprehended to our relations
the opinion, however, that we had committed a great error with Germany, and to those alliances which must always
in not making peace at Vienna on the terms of the Aus- be the shell-stone of any successful resistance to Russian•
trian proposals, he must express his entire dissent from the aggression. It might be said, indeed, that we had brought
principles of what were known as the peace party. He the war upon ourselves by driving Germanyinto the hands
hollered that this war was just, necessary, and inevitable, of Russia by our system of amateur patronage of the
and that peace ought not to be made until the rational ob- revolutionary troubles of 1848. Did then the people of.
jects of the war were attained. But he believed that the England seriously believe that it was worth while to en-
rational objects of the war had been attained, and Jthat in counter those enormous difficulties merely for the question
now prosecuting the war further we had not only corn- of counterpoise or limitation ? He could not believe that
witted a mistake, but a crime. The objects of the war such a notion could be entertained, and if any man thought
were very simple, and could not be better described than that war should be made for its own sake, that war should
they were in the circular despatch of Count Buol, theAus • be made as an end and not as a means, that man muit have
trian Minister. He said, "The object of the war is to degenerated to the condition of the savages in the wilds of
limit the political power of Russia to such a point as to American backwoods. He had thought it better to bring
render the abuse of its material resources if not impossible, the question before the house in a form wh;ch would not
at least in the highest degree difficult." He believed in other give rise to any party questions or party discussions. He
• words that the eeneral object of the war was to maintain had, therefore, merely moved for any correspondence with
the general balance of power in Europe, an object not only the French Government relative to the rejection of the last
worthy of this country, but one which we could not giveup Austrian proposal. Until those communications were
without dishonour and disgrace. In the proper sense ofthe produced, he should feel inclined to believe that if insu-
tt rn there was no more legitimate or necessary ob,;ect than perable objections to that proposal had not been offered
the
maintenance of the balance of power in Europe. He by her Majesty's Government no insuperable objection
believed that our modern civilisationrested on the facttliat would have been urged by the Government of France.
we had a community of nations, each pursuing its owu de- Sir. G. GREY said he was ready to admit that neither
vei opment independent of the others, without allowing any the Government nor the House of Commons had any light
one
t own system.
undue preponderance or to draw others into to complain either of the course the hon. gentleman had
their system. If thatsystem were subverted weshould taken in bringing again before them the important sub-
fall into a state of society 'more like that which prevailed ject to which his speech related, or of the manner in which
under the Roman empire
le than anything which existed he had done so. At the same time the motion he had placed
in modern Europe. thought it was quite clear that in the hands of Mr. Speaker was objectionable on two
Russia had acquired a position in Europe which did grounds. It was a motion to which, so far as related to the
threaten the balance of Per, But how did the danger production of correspondence with the French Government
originate ? In the circuo'nswemc•es by which the German with regard to the last Austrian proposal, the hon. gentle-
powers,- which were the
lutrneati..l rampart of Europe man himself must have been aware that it was impossible
against Russia, became subservient to that power. And her Majesty's Government could accede; while, on the
what was the cause of that ? yed it was the absurd other hand it was a motion which afforded the hon. gen-
foreign policy by which we alienatedhaddmisi the conserva- tleman an opportunityof raising most important questions,
tive Governments of Europe by
cling in their internal affairs, and by' patting
interned- calculated to excite public feeling, without at the same
the revolutionists, whom we never had ing on the back time affording any opportunity for an expression of opinion
assisting ; and that it was particularly by any
b. intention of on the part of the representatives assembled in the Com-
we pursued in 1848 that we had alienated course which mons House of Parliament. The hon. gentleman called the
Ma-
powers, had driven them into the arms of Russ' the German attention of the house to the course pursued by her
and had jesty's Government with regard to the last Austrian pro-
, thus created the danger with which we were. Ina' called posal made after the Conferences of Vienna had been sus
upon to deal. He believed that au alliance betwoewene _ig- pended, and asked for the communications which have
land and Austria to resist Russia was one dictated b
tore and common sense, for England and Austria weribnutal; taken place between the Governments of England and
essentially conservative and non-aggressive powers as re-France, in considering that proposal jointly to-
foreign policy. We brought the war upon us by gether, as.they were. bound to do for the honour and into-
gardedy rest
oss
(loafs i tonne i r respective countries. But the house was in
alienating the German powers, and the keystone of any of -ample information with regard to the nege-
effectual system for resisting the aggressions of Russia, tiation at Vienna, with regard to the proposal made by
ofrethfi
and restoring the European equilibrium, must be aco Austria alter irreer those negotiations were suspended, but be-
hearty and cordial alliance between England and the fore they
enadlelycisciloosed,f and
h also
G of the arguments by
' German states. But the moroefißmumsesidaiawte
itehndresgpaeredi at
possession
nat proposal was supported. They were also in
danger arose from the position
place, from Turkey. It was caused, in the first - proposal, and the n o t e overnment upon that
grounds of that decision, besides having
nal and, he was afraid, incurable weakness of
. Turkey, and all the protocols relating to the
confer-
the existence of certain old treaties so amb guous 1 and ill ences theniseive,. .... transactions at the
Then again her Majesty's Government,
defined that Russia could carry on her aggressions to a con- breaking through the reserve
siderable extent without consulting any particular cesus to the house, at the request itsllial on such occasions, gave
• belli on which the other powers of Europe could interfere. the instrnetious given to the noise! hon. gentleman, copies of
The remedy proposed for that state of things by the first city of London on leaving
England elord the member for the
embodied in the propositions the hon. gentleman askeforf for Vienna; and now
statesmen of Europe was
a character and ' further communications of
termed the four points, which, in his opinion, contained a such of such a nature that the honourable
fair and rational definition of what might be reasonably gentleman must himself have. e
felt it
- asked. from Russia, both as security for the future add as for Government to produce
'them, In the course of
punishment for the past. He believed that the moderation the war unreserved communications had taken place
of our demands received all but universal approbation between the two Governments with reference
throughout Europe. Russia at first refused to consider great operation of war aa well as of negotiat to every
the four points, but hardly a year elapsed before she was indispensable' that there should be an unemea on. It was
eased inter-
obliged to concede their principle. A conference was then change of views and sentiments. between therrt
opened at 'Vienna, and when three and a half out of the ments,in order to insure unity of action
and
Govern-
four points had been settled, thenegotiations were broken instruction, whether to commanders or to 1 identity. of
.
off upon the mode provic • • and the result of the production f the eniP°tentia.
led for carrying into effect the ries, o e communica-
second half of the third •tions asked for would be that such
point. Two propositions were . unreserved interchange
..made by Russia—the first for the absolute the of views must in future cease, for those communications
• opening, and
• . second for the absolute closing of to Black Sea but both were essentially of a secret character. No doubt in thes
were rejected at once by the allied ; -I.pf that interchange there were sometimes •
afford any satisfactory guarantee. At the last moment tent modifications of views upon certain questions, in
Austria proposed the plan of
way as there would be in communications between
counterpoise, relaxing. the the same
rule for the closing of the Straits in favour of the allies two individuals in pursuit of a common object, but the re-
tinder certain contingencies ; and, in addition she d suit always was that the Governments arrived at the same
to enter into a triple alliance with England '
• • with regard to the practical result. When the
t i and Frauce for decision
the specific purpose of guar" guaranteeing Turkey against ai hon, gentleman thus asked for the production of what ought
o ' • the part of Russia. He believed 'y
•
- 4ggresston on that a bet- to be kept secret, he showed little regard for the mainte-
ter security for the peace of Europe could not be obtained;• n f h tht minationof whichhisspeech
aim o t a appy alliance, a er
for so lung as there was a triple alliance between England, seemed so inuchtodoubt. The hon. gentlematiought to have
France, and Austria, the general peace would not be disconsidered whatthe fl. of France would be with re-
turned. (Hear, hear.) In that triple alliance Au t • -
gird to the conduct of this
offered to insert a secret clause, that if Russia shouts Ila
d re- cation
with her, and without obtaining her opinion or con-
ject the roposition to be made to her, or, having accepted d circulate
sent, the should produce to Parliament, an
it, shoaled endeavour to evade its .stipulations by increasing- through
Europe the confidential communicatio
n of her Go-
her fleet to an ,uureasonable extent, Austria would eon: vernment with regard to the important questions thatcame
Bider it as a cases belli. Now • Russia either would Or before them. But that was but an unimportant part of the
• , would nut have accepted the Austrian proposal. He
believed, from what ie had heard both in England and tzes, zetoh of the hon. gentleman. He had adapted his form of
. ,in other, parts of Europe, that she would have accepted it ' coursen order to enable him to state his views on the
Government had pursued, and on the coursehe thinks
in the end, and that, consequently,' peace would have been theye
made. Assumieg such to be the - hat he had to ask Austria.
a. 'Tee hon. gentleman impugned the course the Go-
' wit ;, whether the difference between what we demanded vernment had
taken only on the last stage of their proceed-
at Vienne and what Russia would have accepted an refusing ind we ings, viz ,in refu •
might have got was such as to justify the continuance of the proposal of Au concert with France to accede to
- the war, and all the sacrifices in men and money which it cert with those neat
wtria. But the hon. gentleman, in con-
involved? Practically, the negotiations were broken off on the fullest and plaineslom he sat in the house, admitted in
t . the difference between limitation and counterp •es Let cessity of the war in which
the justice and absolute ne-
them consider what that difference was. The-aorigsomen is admitted also that the prinhciitille country was engaged. He
against counterpoise,,and iu favour of limitation, were that were principlesit was the duty)"embraced in the four points
the former would involve the country in large additionalßut the lion. gentleman of the Governent to insist
.a,
~ peon. went further and separated
annual expeDditlire-rof keeping up a fleet lathe Bl k ''' i himself not only from those
ac tJe3, . who originally denied the
•

difficulty. The house was not now called upon to decide
upon one principle or the other—the only queition before
them was whether the Government did right in refusing
to adopt a system of counterpoise, and in considering that
it would be necessary to turn to the views which the Go-
vernment had expressed all through these negotiations.
It would be found, then, by a reference to Lord John

Russell's instructions that the Government had always

viewed the existence of a great naval power in the
Black Sea belonging to Russia as a standing menace to
Turkey—(hear)—and therefore the reduction of that naval
power was the only means of preventing future aggres—
sion. There were two modes by which the preponderance of
Russia in the Black Sea might be reduced—one was to adopt
the principle of limitation, the other a system of counter-
poise ; but without expressing a decided opinion one way or
other, the instructions issued by Lord Clarendon limited
Lord J. Russell's mission to the principle of limitation.
No defence of Lord J. Russell was rec,ssary for having
brought the proposal of Austria under the consideration
of his Government, because, in strict conformity with his
instructions, he stated to the Conference that his instruc-
tions were exikausterl when Russia refused to consider the
principle of limitation. But that did not preclude him
from receiving and considering the proposals of Austria.
His instructions fully disclosed what were the views,

opinions, and feelings of the Government in entering into
the negotiations ; they did not hesitate between the ques-
tions of limitation and counterpoises, but the instruc-
tions showed distinctly that they thought the argu-
ments were conclusive in favour of the first, and equally
conclusive against the adoption of the other. Those
arguments were urged with great force and ability by
France, who concurred in them, as well as by Turkey;
but Russia, strongly resisted them, and for very good rea-
sons—she was aware of the efficiency of the means pro-
posed to be taken by the allied powers to prevent future
aggression upon Turkey, and pertinaciously refused to en-
tertein the principle of limitation. The question then arose
as to whether there was any prospect of successfully' con-
tinuing the negotiations; the Government were blamed at
the time for not at once breaking them off; but fan the other
hand Austria indulged in the hope of peace. It was her in-
terest to remain at peace with Russia so long as she could
do so consistently with honour, and therefore she requested
permission. to lay before the allied C overnments some other
proposals which she conceived might lead to a satisfactory
termination of the war. At this time nothing had occurred
which could justify the Government in abandoning the
view which they had before taken on the subject of a sys-
tem of counterpoise, and when it was proposed to Lord J.
Russell by Count Buol, he showed it would be ineffectual
if adopted, nor had his noble friend said since, that he
was aware of, that a system of counterpoise could lead to
any satisfactory result. No doubt he, subsequently to the
time when the proposal was first made, modified his opi-
nions, not as to the abstract merits of the proposition it-
self, but as to the expediency of the course to be taken
under the circumstances whibh then addressed themselves
to his mind. He thought, for instance, that the Austrian
proposal was worthy of consideration, and accordingly he
recommended it to the consideration of his Government,
from whom it received a careful and matured consideration.
France having had the same propositions made to them
directly from Austria, gave it the samo mature, calm, and
deliberate consideration, and in the course of the few days
that it was under consideration no doubt communications
did take place between the two Governments. The opi-
nions which France expressed, however, could not be
disclosed, but Parliament had a perfect right to know
the grounds upon which her Majesty's Government
came to a decision, and no one could impute to 'the
Government the slightest concealment in the matter.
They had laid before Parliament the grounds, which in-
fluenced them ; while Lord Clarendon had stated fully,
clearly, and explicitly the reasons which induced them to
reject the proposition. They hat no assurance in writing
on the part of Austria that if her proposal were accepted by
the allies, and afterwards rejected by Russia, she would
make the refusal a casus belli against Russia, at least they
received no such assurance previous to the period when
they were called upon to consider the proposal. The hon.
member seemed to think there would be great hazard to
the alliance with France in a long war, but he (Sir G.Grey)
saw no cause for alarm. The hon. member considered that
in March, 1854, the war was just and necessary, and re-
jointed that it was entered into in conjunction with France,
but now he seemed to be of opinion that, although the
terms of peace were not such terms as ought, under the
circumstances to be accepted, they ought to be accepted
now because of the imminent hazard to the alliance be-
tween this country and France. He was astonished to hear
such an argument from the lips of .the hon. member
and would ask him if he had any right to assume that
France would be willing to make peace on the terms pro-
posed by Austria. The alliance with France would be
much more endangered by the course suggested than by
going hand in hand with France in the vigorous prosecu-
tion of the war; for France had shown her determination
to exert all her powers to bring the war to a safe and
honourable termination. (Hear, hear.) With the immense
resources of two great countries like England and France
there was no reason to be discouraged because the war had
not been brought to a successful termination within twelve
months. He had a right to assume that whatever could
be effected in the field by the gallantry of the allied troops
would be accomplished. At all events he felt convinced
that the country and the majority of the house did not
share in the discouragement and gloom which it was
the object of some hon. gentlemen to instil into the
minds of the people. (Hear, hear.) They knew that the
war was just and necessary, and he did not think they
would concur in the censure cast on the Government for not
accepting terms of peace which would have left in the
hands of Russia those means of aggression which Russia
seemed determined not to part with, and which, if she re-
tained, would be used on the first favourable opportunity
for the prosecution of those designs which were inimical to
the existence of Turkey and the permanent peace and se-
curity of Europe. (Cheers.)
Mr. GLADSTONE entirely agreed with Sir G. Grey in
thinking that the production of the papers was a question
for the decision of the Government. With regard to the
speech of the right hon. gentleman, it was moderation
itself, and contained this important admission—that the
principle of limitation was not henceforth to be deemed a
sine qua non in the event of future proposals for peace,
being made. The speech of the right hon. gentleman
had made more apparent the false position in which he
'was placed. Nothing could be more distorted or untrue
than the representation he had given of the facts.
Mr. Gladstone proceeded to recount the circumstances
connected with the rejection of the Austrian pro-
posals, and gave it as his opinion that it was not to the
French Government, but to the English Government, that
the responsibility of rejection was to be assigned. He com-
plained that the house had been misled in its previous dis-
cussions by imperfect information. No intimation was
given of the Austrian proposals ; all that the house had to
guide it were the statements connected with the Russian
propositions. He was prepared to give Lord Clarendon
every credit for ability and power in writing his des-
patches, but one thing he (Lord Clarendon) lacked—the
spirit of a desire for peace. Entering into details, the
right hon. gentleman reviewed the leading proposals, in-
cluding those made by Austria. In these proposals, limi-
tation, deemed so valuable by the English Government,
was involved. As to the principle of counterpoise, which
formed the principle of the first of the Austrian proposals,
long'as the war may last, this fact would not be got over,that
the Plenipotentiaries of all the Poisers had agreed to urge it
upon their respective Governments. With regard to the se-
cond proposal, ho was astonished at the cavalier manner in
which it was rejected, for it combined limitation with
counterpoise. As to Austria, he was prepared to maintain
that she did give a pledge that, in a certain case, which it
was in the power of the Allies to conform, she would go
to war. What she said was, that if Russia rejected both
propositinna, she would draw the sword. His belief was,
that Ministers looked a good deal further than limitation.
In his opinion the best security for Turkey was a peace
which would secure the united support of Europe. He was
at a loss now to understand for whom Austria held the
•Principalities. The result of recent proceedings ha I libe-
rated large bodies of Russian troops, and the effect would
soon be seen in the Crimea, andell had arisen from miserable
quibblings about limitation and counterpoise. The aspect
of the war was no longer European. It had been changed
into an isolated conflict. As to France, the avidity
with which the loans had been subscribed was no evi-
dence of enthusiasm in favour of the war. (Hear.) So far
as an opinion could bq formed, there was no reason to con-
clude that Russia was suffering from financial exhaustion.
Mr. Gladstone then proceeded to speak in an extraordinary
strain about the endurance of the Russian soldier, his de-
votion, his fanaticism, his hatred to the invaders of his
soil, and other things, whiCh evidently took the house by
surprise. He thanked the house for having given him
liberty of speech. He still entertained the opinion that
the war was just, but his conviction was that it ought to
have been brought to a close. He denied that the war as
it now stood was the war into which he entered.
Mr. LAYARD thought that the hon. gentleman (Mr.
Laing) who had addressed the house that evening on a
-subject which had been discussed over and over again must
have been lately living in some land to which the Times
had not access. (Laughter.) The question had been so
often discussed, that he would not trouble the house if ho
did not desire tnat what had been said that night should go
forth and create a wrong impression at a most important
period in the history of the war. The hon. gentleman had
said that he had had opportunities abroad of testing public
opinion,on this war. To whom had he referred ? To those
connected with public enterprises; but doubtless, of all
attached men in the world, railway contractors and bankers were
unfavourable to the war. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentle-
man had also said that the opinions which had been ex-
pressed'bat
by the noble lord the member for the City of
haveLon-
inthsaorheouwseeigthhet
noble lord had
of
any
one
else
stated opinions much stronger than those
He wished to
se in favour of the war. (Hear. hear.)
especially the fiarYsta few' words on all the four points—more
had, from the first, protested It would be recollected that he
would recollect that tlle against the settlement. They
independent kingdoms Danubian Principalities had been
mtted to the Porte, an' rtiisiloathat they had voluntarily sub-
this century obtained access Russia had never but once in
in her power to destroy their free when she had done all
when the revolution in the Danfurleo? institutions. In 1848,
the character of their instant' tan provinces changed
ions, Russ'
Porteto interfere. They had altogethe la compelled the
question. They should have treated Molda
mi.sunderstood the
as independent States, whereas they had tvr"""Vallachia
they entirely depended' on the Porte, and the
them as if
noble lord
member for the City of London, by protocol, gave the
the
e po ea
the power of interfering, and of introducing any „is r
or form'of government, in accordance with the e laws
Russia had made no concession, for
age.she 131.ri.s of the
gained in the power of interfering in hose • materially
to the second point, Russia had madea- ' Provinces. As
11
sion in removing the barriers to important _
the
rested but Moldavia and-W .e free naviga‘tton co o
of
rested in the navigation of 1- • 411wihiaet they lav era
not represented at the . panube, and 9
, y
042ference. the
And now, as to

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, AUGUST 4 1855

third point. He would at once admit that a difference be-
tween counterpoise and limitation was not one worthy of a
war, but he believed that the country had long ago made
up their minds that the four points could lead to no satis-
factory conclusion ; and he also believed that the Govern-
ment felt the pressure of public opinion, and that the Con.
ferences at Vienna was never intended to lead to a peace
based on those four points. The instructions which ha I
been 'given to the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) stated that
the project of counterpoise was impossible, for it could give
no hope of bringing the war to a satisfactory conclusion.
Such were the instructions given by Lord Clarendon to the
noble lord on the 22d of April, and on the 10th of April,
when the project of counterpoise had been proposed by the
Austrian Government, the noble lord wrote expressing
his opinion that such a project could not be entertained.
while, on the 18th of April, he was found proposing that
very project of counterpoise which he had rejected on the
]oth. Let them suppose Sebastopol was taken, and would
there then be any greater chances of peace? He believed
not. Could we blockade Sebastopol continually, Russia
would wait, and the time must come when she would re-

gain the Crimea. He would ask. with the right hen. gen-
tleman the member for the University of Oxford (Mr.
Gladstone) what end we proposedto ourselves by this war?
We had allowed Austria to occupy the Principalities.
Suppose she had not done so, or that she had carried out
what was intended by the treaty of the 2d of December,
we might have raised a very -large body of men—per-
haps 100,000—and those men would have fought our
battles, but by the position which Austria had taken,
we were precluded altogether from availing ourselves
of the national feeling of the Principalities. He was
told that, if Austria had not occupied the Princi-
palities, Turkey would have been compelled to keep up
a large army there, but that was a mere fallacy. He
could not but express his anxiety upon the condition of
our army. Some improvements had taken-place, but they
were in general the result of some pressure from without.
He saw the same neglect of the interests of the army, and
be believed there was a very general and very great discon-
tent amongst our officers in the Crimea. Within the last
few days they had seen rewards given to men who had not
any claim to them, and even the highest honour of the
State were given to those who had not distinguished them-
selves, as well as to those who had. The result of this
system wag, that at this period of the campaign we had
not one man capable of commanding our army, or of un-
dertaking any military operations of magnitude. He de-
nied that they had shown any specimen of military genius
in the operations in the Crimea. There was no signs of
improvement. At Kertch. the expedition had been mis-
managed in a most extraordinary manner. One transport
had carried the horses, and another the saddles. (Hear,
hear.) If there was one thing which rendered the pros-
pect of peace more remote than another, it was the
course which had been takea by the right hon. gentleman
(Mr. Gladstone). The speech of the right hon. gentleman
was calculated to destroy almostexery hope which theyhad
of peace. If the right hon. gentleman read Le Nord, pub-
lished at Brussels, which was the great Russian organ, he
would see that he was looked upon as the advocateof Russia
in England. He (Mr. Layard) did not insinuate that he or
those who acted with him were traitors to their country,
but they could seem that publication the effect whichtheir
speeches had in Russia. (Cheers.) The speech just made by
the right hon. gentleman was calculated to encourage Russia
to reject every reasonable proposal for peace. He believed
that no Russian could have made a speech more likely to
raise and animate th e spirit of Russian soldiers to resistance.
He had given the house a picture of the endurance of the
Russi in soldier. Was not a Power to be dreaded which had
a million of such men, devoted, as the right hon. gentleman
had described, to their Emperor ? (Hear.) He (Mr. Lay-
era) listened with astonishment to the speech of the right
hon. gentleman. *He who had led us into this war had
pointed out a disaster—a reverse ;he said that we had-
been beaten. Were these the words of an English states-
man, or of an Enelishman. (Hear, hear) Was it because
we had met with a reverse that we were to retire from the
contest? Were we to sacrifice that honour and character
which it had taken centuries to establish ? Were the
words national honour extinct amongst the right hen.
gentleman and those who sat with him? It was but a
small failure. We had hail failures ten times greater during
the Peninsular war, and yet we had come out successful
from that great contest. He believed that it world be
impossible to conclude a peace whilst the question of
Sebastopol remained unsettled. France was a great mili-
tary power, and she could not submit to any -loss of her
military reputation. This was a great national question
with France. The right hon. gentleman said that the
war was not popular in France. He (Mr. Layard) be-
lieved that the greatest ardour prevailed in France on
the subject of the war, and this had been shown by
the manner in which the people had responded to the
demands made by the Government, and bad subscribed a
sum far exceeding the highest anticipations. (Hear.) The
war must be carried on with vigour, or the country would
become dispirited and hopeless, and then terms of peace
might be accepted which would be no compensation for
the sacrifices which it had already made. He believed
that the four points would be utterly inadequate for a
satisfactory settlement of the question—they would only
lead to a hollow and short truce. He must again implore
the Government to carry on the war with vigour, in order
to satisfy the joist expectations of the country. (Hear.)
Mr. COBDEN said that he did not intend to delay the
house for more than two or three minutes, for after the
able and exhaustive speech of the right hon. gentleman
(Mr. Gladstone), he should consider that it would be an
unwarrantable waste of time to say one word on the
same side of the question. It might be his (Mr. Coleclen'a)
utter want of the reasoning faculty, but he listened
sometimes for an hour to the hon. gentleman who had last
spoken (Mr. Layard), and at the end he was totally at a
loss to discover what his policy was, or if he had any po-
licy at all. The hon. gentleman had charged the right hon.
member for the University (Mr. Gladstone) with encou-
raging Russia because he had pointed out the necessity of
making peace with Russia on some terms. Why, the hon.
gentleman never made a speech in which he did not find
fault with everything. Many months ago he predicted
that all Asia Minor would speedily be overrun by Russia.
He was the last man in the house to accuse the right hon.
gentleman with giving encouragement to Russia. He (Mr.
Cobden) rose to speak on a totally different question —one
which he approached with great reluctance and pain, as it
was personal to himself. They had been discussing the
*eight of authority of public men in reference to the
policy to be pursued with regard to this war. They had
been told how the great negotiators at Vienna had been
in favour of peace on the terms of the four points. He
attached much weight to that influence and authority in
matters of this kind in the uninitiated public mind, but
when he found a right hon. gentleman holding so high an
office as that of a Cabinet Minister uttering the most un-
measured sentiments of denunciation to a large body of
the public, he (Mr. Cobden) could not consider it a subject
which could be treated lightly either in the house or the
country. (Hear.) He of course alluded to the right hon.
bart. the member for Southwark (Sir W. Mclesworth). He
called upon the right hon. hart. to explain himself with
regard to the remarks which he bad made, at the late
election for Southwark, upon the right hon member for the
University of Oxford, upon the peace party, upon other
parties in the house, and upon himself (Mr. Coben.) The
right hon. member had designated these various par ties as
a nefarious and unpatriotic body, who were carrying on
the war by means of ambuscades, which he (Mr. Cobden)
supposed meant that they were sharpshooters. (Hear, and
laughter.) He (Mr. Cobden) was not a peace-at-any-price-
man, but he was for a peace at an honourable price.
(Hear, hear.) He wanted to know when the right hon.
baronet first adopted political sentiments contrary to his
(Mr. Cobden's). Two and a half years ago, when an office
in Lord Aberdeen's Government was offered to the right
hon. baronet, he said he had no objection to accept it if the
sentiments of Mr. Cobden were represented in the Cabinet.
(Laughter.) That was no secret, for on the very same
evening on which the offer was made, the right hon. baro-
net communicated it to himself (Mr. Cobden) and six
others in the central hall of the Reform Club, two of whom
were then in the house. He (Mr. Cobden) wished to know
how it came to pass that the right hon. baronet now
advocated principles so widely different? It would
not do for the right hon. baronet to say that, on gene
ral politics, he still concurred in his (Mr. Cobden's)
views, but differed from him upon the war question,
because it was well known that he (Mr. Cobden) had
for years identified himself with the peace party. Enter-
taining great apprehensions that, when the free trade
measures were passed, and the country had thereby waxed
feat, it would most certainly kick, he attended public meet-
ings in England and abroad for the purpose of imbuing
the public with peace principles, and instilling into them
a horror of war. The Chobham camp, the outcry about a
French invasion, were sure symptoms' that the country
was fat, and about to kick ; and he felt that he could do
nothing better than endeavour, by agitation and getting
up petitions in favour of peace, to divert the public mind
from war. And if the right hon. baronet and himself
entertained identity of views on any subject more than
another, he thought it was on the question of the foreign
policy of this country. His (Mr. Cobden's) first appear-
ance in public life was the publishing of a pamphlet. 20
years ago, in answer to the public harangues of Mr. Ur-
quhart in favour of war with Russia. That war had at
last arrived, and it was great injustice to Mr. Urquhart
not to have conferred upon him the Premiership, to
enable him to carry out his policy against Russia.
(Laughter.) In reply to an attack which was made upon,
the right honourable baronet the member for South-
wark, some time ago, for his advocacy of the war,
instead of the peace principles, he (Sir W. Moleswortb)
read an extract from a speech which he had delivered at
Leeds, in 1840, for the purpose of showing that the course
which he was now pursuing with respect to the war with
Russia was quite consistent with the principles which he
held in 1840., He (Mr. Cobden) had since referred to that
speech, and he found that, instead of being a war, it was a
peace speech, and that the extract which he had read was
only his reply to a hypothetical case, as to Russia seizing
upon Constantinople, which, he said, was a most absurd
notion ; but supposing, even that such a seizure should take
place, the right hon. baronet thought we ought not to en-
danger our alliance with Russia by opposing it, as her aid
might be most important to us in the then dreaded war be-
tween England and France on the Syrian question. He
(Mr. Cobden) did not think that the right hon. baronet
would have resorted to such sophistry as he had done with
regard to that speech, for the purpose of deluding the house.
What the right hon. gentleman said was, that all these
suppositions of the power of Russia with regard to the
posse-sion of Constantinople were utterly absurd, but Lord
Clarendon had defended the war on the very supposition of
all these things which the right hon. gentleman declared to
bo utterly absurd. He had no hesitation in saying that for
upwards of the last 18 months he was persuaded the right
hon. gentleman had entertained precisely the same opi-
nions on these questions which he did 15 years before.
By what process of reasoning, therefore, had he changed
his convictions upon the subject? In dealing with
the right hon. gentleman he (Mr. Cobden) had only done
as he would be done by, for if he was ever found holding
systematically, on great questions of policy, one language
to his friends in private and another in public, he should
expect to be denounced as utterly unfaithful.
Sir W. MOLES WORTH said that having been person-
ally attacked by the hOn. member who had just sat down,
he hoped he might throw himself upon the indulgence of
the house for a few minutes. The hon. gentleman had
called him to account for a speech which he delivered to
his constituents in Southwark. He did not regret one
single sentiment he had uttered on that occasion. He had
merely stated, in order to allay and tranquillise their alarm,
that if an improper peace were attempted to be patched
up, it would not be sanctioned or brought about by 'the
Government of his right hon. friend (Lord Palmerston).
(near.) The hon. gentleman had also thought proper to
refer to certain conversations which had passed between
him (Mr. Cobden) and himself (Sir W. Molesworth) about
the period of the formation of Lord
.Aberdeen's Go-
laot thens
hou.bad egxeitisttieed.
vheortuwme
eenn tt.he
m. He
doubt. very
had
the friendlyhonour
man's acquaintance for, many years, olthough he had all
along disagreed with the hon. member upon the subject of
his extraordinary and peculiar views with regard to' the
rrelations
possibility of universal peace. He was never offered a'seat
in the Government except a seat in the Cabinet, but he re-
collected having a conversation with the hon. gentleman,
upon which occasion they talked over the various combine-
time of parties which might be united in the new Govern..

ment, and it was very true he had said to the hon. gentle- number had increased to 532,544, representing a value
man that he certainly agreed with him on many subjects of 20,604,5771.
and on many questions—for instance, with regard to free Lieute, ant-General AITCHISON, in seconding a v 'te of
trade, but he had never agreed with the hon. member on the thanks, moved by Mr. George Knight, to the Court of
question of universal peace, and never would consent to join
with him in any agitation on that subject. The hon. gen-
Dii sclera, expressed the satisfaction he felt at the eaten-
tleman had alsoreferred to a speech he (the right hon.bart.) sive benefit the bank had conferred. upon a &ass of
made some 15 years ago, but in 15 years a very consider- traders who were not, previously to its institution, in the
able change might take place in one's opinions. It was true habit of keeping a banker's account. Many tradesmen
at the period in question he underrated the ambitious who had risen to comparative wealth, were ready to ad-
designs of Russia, and he'had altogether changed his opi- mit that they owed a good deal of their success to keep-
nions since, and ono reason.for such change was the know- ing such an account. Increased employment to labour
ledge he acquired as a member of the Government of the had followed as a necessary consequence.
secret correspondence which had taken place between the The CHAIRMAN returned thanks, assuring the proPrie-
Emperor of Russia and the English Government. He was tors that the directors would make every effort to deve-
not aware that he had anything more to say on the subject, lope the peculiar features of the bank, being confident
further than that the alterations which had taken place in
that, in doing so, public as well as individual benefit
his opinions were the sincere results of careful consideration.
would be the certain result.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the right hon. gentleman had
stated, in reference to the speech made by him at the late I
election, that he had nothing to retract. He was sure, I
however, that the right hon. baronet would be ready to do I
I so when he was shown that he had violated fact and truth
in a portion of the statement in question. He understood
the right hon. gentleman to have said that he considered
the conduct of certain parties in the house unpatriotic, dis-
creditable, and nefarious, because they. surprised the Go-
vernment by a combination in respect to the vote on the
Turkish loan. He begged to assure the right hon. gentle-
man that he (Sir J. Graham) had no knowledge-whatever
of what were the intentions of hon. gentlemen opposite
with regard to the vote in question. (Hear, hear.)
Sir W. MOLESWORTH explained that, in his mention
of a combination of parties to vote against the Govern-
ment, he had intended to describe the impression produced
on his own mind by the event of last Friday week. (Hear.)
On that occasion the Government were surprised, not by
the peace party, who were, in fact, at open war, but by
the right hon. gentleman who sat on the benches below,
and by the simultaneous attack Of hon. gentlemen oppo-
site. The right bon. gentleman was proceeding, when,
The SPEAKER said the right hon. gentleman was not
entitled to make a second speech.
Mr. R. P HILLIMORE begged to tell the right hon.
gentleman that he had voted with a perfectly conscientious
conviction that he was doing what was right and best for
the country. The right hon. baronet would do well to ac-
quaint himself perfectly with facts before he made such
assertions as he had done.
Mr. BRIGHT sail the right hon. gentleman had bad a
fair opportunity of retracting his statements to-night. He
thought it would have been an advantage if the right hon.
baronet had been allowed to continue his explanation, and
make the retraction which was expected of him.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH—I did not make a retraction.
Mr. BROTHERTON here moved the adjournment of
the house.
Mr. WALPOLE said he must call upon the right hon.
baronet to retract the phrase of " an unscrupulous Oppo-
sition," which he addressed to hon. gentlemen. 'When
the debate upon the Turkish Loan commenced, his (Mr.
Walpole's) impression was, that the proper course would
be to take the convention as a separa.w, instead of a joint,
guarantee. He was not aware that he had ever offered.
the Government a factious opposition, and the vote he
gave on the night in question was as honest a vote as he
ever gave.
Mr. BRO'I'HERTON again rose to move the adjourn-
ment of the house.
Mr. GLADSTONE said he had listened with great sur-
prise to what had taken place during this conversation.
He was fully persuaded the right hon. gentleman uttered
the language he was said to have used at the hustings
without much consideration. The right hon. baronet had
said there was a combination to take the Government by
surprise, and he further said that he did not make any
retraction ; but at the same time, he stated his intention
was merely to describe the impression on his own mind.
It was perfectly clear to him (Mr. Gladstone), however,
that the language used did describe the actions of others.
If he had previously agreed to vote with certain gentlemen
on a public question he should certainly not for one mo-
ment shrink from avowing it, but, as it happened, there
was no concert whatever with regard to himself on the oc-
casion in question.
Lord PALMERSTON said that his right hon. friend
had been accused of having taxed hon. gentlemen in the
house with combination on a particular question. (Oka
of " No, no," and " Nefarious.") He was not talking of
epithets ; he was merely talking of charges. His right
hon friend who had just sat down had put it upon the
ground whether it was an impression of the right hon.
baronet's own mind, or whetherhe had stated it as having
been a positive fact, and he should not be put off the scent
by the "noes" of hon. gentlemen opposite. (Laughter.)
Na man could state more than the impression on his own
mind of a fact that hal taken place. (Hear.) If such was
the impression of his right hon. friend, all he (Lord Pal-
merston) could state was, that it was his impression also,
and he believed that impression was shared in, not only
by many members of that house, but by almost every rea-
sonable man in England. (Hear.) The combination might
have been fortuitous or accidental, add without any pre-
vious concert, but a combination it was in the strictest
sense of the word—(hear)—because there could be no doubt
that several parties did combine. (Hear.)
The Marquis of GRANBY thought the right hon. gen-
tleman, after what had passed, ought, as an honest man,
to express his regret that an erroneous impression had got
upon his mind. He hoped he would even then get up and
say he had been labouring under a mistake.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said, when he was stopped by
the Speaker, he was proceeding to state how he came to use
the words. He described simply the effect produced upon
his own mind by the events of last Friday week. He said
that the sudden and unexpected attack of the right hon.
gentleman beyond the gangway, and the simultaneous at-
tack of the right hon. gentleman opposite, induced in his
mind a belief that it was a skilfully combined movement.
The right bon. gentleman the member for the University of
Oxford and the hon. member for Tavistock had now declared
that there was no previous communication between them
and the right bon. gentleman opposite. He (Sir W. Moles-
worth) firmly believed that was a fair statement, and there-
fore, ho would only say it was an accidental union of parties
to attack the Government. (A. laugh and Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI said it appeared to him that the issue
had been changed within the last few minutes. He thought
the noble lord, the First Minister, rose to extricate his
friend and colleage from his discreditable position by that
dexterity which he could always command ; but instead of
doing that, he raised an argument merely on the'abuse of
the word combination, and left out of sight thel epithet
which had given such great offence. He was astonished to
hear the noble lord defend a colleague in the use of such a
word as nefarious, as addressed to a large party in that
house, and to some of its most distinguished members.
The motion for adjournment was then agreed to.
The house adjourned at 25 minutes to 2 o'clock.

SOUTH-WESTERN RAILWAY.

The following is the directors' report, submitted to the
meeting on the 10th inst
The half-yearly accounts now submitted show a net re-
venue for the six months ending June 30, 1835, after de-
duction of interest on loans and all other preferential
charges, of 146,8081. 4's. Bd. ; add the surplus at December
31, 1854, less dividends on capital since paid up, 2,6541.
14s. 3d. ; balance available for dividend, 149,462/.lBs. 11d.
From ths sum the directors recommend that a divided for
the half-year, at the rate of 41. 7s. 6tl. per cent. per annum,
be declared, amounting to 6,780,458/. 6s. Bd. to 148,32.1.
14s. 11d. ; and on 113,1921., on calls on the 401. and 501.
shares for the 26 days, to 352/. 14s. 11d, ; leaving to ,be
carried over to the next half-year, 7871. 9s. id.
The increase in the gross revenue for the half-year, over
the same period in 1854, is 20,6331. 18s. ld.
The following table shows the actual and relative values
of the traffic for the two periods :
Half-year Miles Total Working Net
ending. Open. Receipts. Expenses.. Revenue.
s. d. s. d. £ s. d.
June, 1854.. 251 347,601 5 2 138,043 11 4 188,432 19 9
June, 1855.. 268 368,235 3 3 139,613 3 0 20,696 5 9

Increase,. 17

20,633 18 1

1,569 11 8 17,263 6 0

The continued increase of traffic shown in the foregoing
table, although moderate in amount, affords a renewed
proof of the sound and satisfactory chartcter of the com-
pany's position, particularly when the state of affairs in
the commercial and political world is taken into conside-
ration. It will be observed that, although the gross in-
crease of the revenue for the half-year is 20,633/. 18s. ld.,
the amount of increase under the bead of working ex-
penses is only 1,569/. 18s. Bd.
The local taxation on the company has increased during
the half-yeir by the large sum of 1,4781. Bs. 4d., and
would have been much more so had not the directors re-
sisted several most unwarrantably high assessments on
the company. The rating on raj:way companies has
now become a grievous burden, and imperatively calls on
the legislature for an early consideration of its injustice,
with a view to that relief which was long since promised
by the authorities of the Board of Trade.
The usual report from the company's locomotive super-
intendent is appended, from which it will be seen that the
rolling stock is in good working order. Three new engines,
six carriages, and 31 waggons have been built during the
last half-year, at the expense of revenue.
The directors have ordered about three miles of the line
below Kingston to be relaid, in continuation of the por-
tion completed to that point last year. They base also
ordered additional sleepers to be placed throughout the
whole of the Southampton and Dorchester line, to afford
greater strength to the road. The increased weight of the
trains and engines, caused by the additional traffic on that
line, rendered this advisable. The expense of these im-
provements will be charged against revenue, dividing the
amount in a similar manner as before, over a lengthened

period.
Pursuant to the resolution of the proprietors at the half-
yearly meeting in February last, the sum of 41,778/. 9s.
10(1. exeended during the year 1854, and then standing to
the debt of " Suspense Plant Account," and 31,0081.
16s. 3d. standing to the debit of " Extension of Stations
and Sidings Suspense Account," have been charged to the
capital account of the company; and during the past half-
year an additional amount of 7,977/. ss. 9,1. has been ex-
pended for sidings and stations, and 11,8561. 6s. 3d. for
plant, which has been placed to a suspense account, to
await the future determination of the shareholders.
A new steam-ship has been built during the past half-
year for the Havre station, at an expense of 19,4601., to
replace fhe Grand Turk, hich had become practically un-
qualified for the service. This amount is in course of being
rppsid by a Renewal Fund !died f r that purpose, and the
Grand T will be disposed of.
So much has recently been communicated to the proprie-
tor's respecting the Company's Amended Bill, which was
introduced into Parliament in the beginning of the present
year, that it is unnecessary to say more than that it has
passed into a law, and to make the following statement re-
lating thereto ; the act provides, in a satisfactory manner,
for every point which it was originally introduced to sanc-
tion, and considerable advantages may be anticipated from
the powers which it confers. Those powers which effect a
consolidation into stock of the amount paid on the 7 per
cent. preference share capital will be immediately acted
upon ; and henceforth the right of voting in respect of such
stock will be the same as the right of voting in respect of
.the company's ordinary stock. With refrence to the
clauses compelling the company to apply to Parliament for
an act to make an extension railway to Exeter the direc-
tors feel that it has been passed in the sh ipebest calculated
to make this obligation as little onerous as possible, be-
cause, in addition to the option as to the course of the ex-
tension, power had been acquired to borrow the necessary
funds, or to raise the amount by shares, as the proprietors
may deem most advisable. It will be the duty of the direc-
tors to give their immediate consideration to the subject,
and a special meeting of the proprietors will be called to
lay the matter before them for their decision as early a
period as possible.

'URNS.

.ST WEEK.

Miles
opened,
1855.

72%
37%

26%
103%
189%
94'
6)1
20