The National Register.
London, England, 1816-03-10 00:00:00

ARMY ESTIM,VERS.

The Order of the Day for the House going into a Committee
of Supply having been mud --on the motion for the Speaker's
leaving the Chair,
Mr. W. W NY. said, he believed that this was the period at
eine!' he mint bring forward his motiou, namely, "'I it it be
an instruction to the Committee to provide for the payment of
the British army now serving in France." He moved this on
two gronsids; fist, the extreme impropriety of having an army
arving within three days march of this metropolis, wholly im
dependent of i'arlturmut for m. And, secondly, that if any
neglect should arise on 'the part uf France for pay in;: the army,
hlinieters could .not,, without a breads of the Constitutiuu,
issue any misery fdr that purpose.
'i lie metiers of Mr. V. I'N h I; was agreed to.
Mr. PtioVIEROE then rose, not to object to the House going
int) a Co ttttt :Mee, but to take the earliest opportunity of dis-
aruting the opinion ulna had been given by gentlemen
on the other side, that the country was as well able non, as at
any Mettler period, to support the expense of the proposes'
large establishment. He also objected to the extensive I.l3lli-
!my eatabli‘lonceds proposed in these estimates on another
ground ; one stated by the Noble Lord (Castlerear,h) uu
tinnier night; when the Noble Lord said, It waslis wish to
see the military spirit subside. He ( Mr. Protherik.) also
willed to see that spirit suleride, as it was only by the civil
power gaining the preponderance over the military, that the
peace of Europe conk' tie permanently secured. But milk
it he contended, that keeping it; so large a military estaidisti-
meta as that proposed %wand have that effect? was con-
strained to admit, that the strong picture drawn by the Right
lion. Gentleman of the state of Ireland, rendered a large force
necessary; but the value necessity would not apply to the
other parts of the estimates. .4 Noble Lord (Palmerston) had
said, on a forater eight, that a reduction of 20,ettut men would
only save ceo,oolll. a year, which was a trifle. no
that sum might appear to the Noble Lord, he (Mr. P.) was
anxious to serve it; and stronely recommended it to the Noble
Lord to adopt that saving, and every other, however minute,
which lie could adopt.
The then resolved itself into a Committee.
Lord Pat meitsrosi said, in imipissing the estimate* he should
not feel it necessary to go into detait, but to state the dine' ent
heads, and reserve hinise.f to unswer the observations uf Gen-
tlemen as they ruse.--(llcar, hearo—lie must again premise,
that the Estimates as now prope,ed was not a Peace Este Wish-
leen*, but one Mr the present year, something between a Itrar

I!! ARCH 10.

anti Peace Establishment; One itt Which considerable altera-
tions might be made, even 'luring the present year. If Gentle-
mers would look at the Estimates now before the House, and
compare them with those of List year, they would find that a
very material reduction had already take') place, and that
much more was contemplated. Including the 30,00 men in
Crania., which would not want to be provided for, there was a
reduction in our military establishment of 147,000 men ; he coil-
sidereal the 30,000 men in France as a transfer, mid therefore
sennid take the real diminution of force at 57,000, and the eat ing
of expiate at 3,000,0001. 'flee Noble Lord theta entered into 4
detail of the principal items on ss hid, a diminution had taken
place—the household troops were reduced 1,800, at a saving
of expence of 33,0001.; the cavalry weir reduced 9,000, and a
paving made of 311,0001.; infantry hal been disclaimed to the
amount of 1:1,000, and a saving made upon that head of expen-
diture of at least 1,3a9,0401. In the miscellanea''e department
there was a saving, in fief, this year of 394,0001. though there
would appear to be a saving of not more than 1114,0001. a stun
of 200,0001. having been taken front that fund last year. This
saying principally arose on the articles of additional pay, beer
money, innkeepers' allowauce, and ceetiegencies. In framing
the Estimates, the regiments had all been taken as (buy stood at
the beginning of the year; and the whole force would be found
to amount to 07,000 or 915,000 men. Under the head of Militia
Eapentliture there would be found a diminution of espence of
1,186,6001. In the cAtaldislituent of General Officers there was
a saving of Mead. la the Staff and Garrisons 173,0001. 'lke
reduction of Officers on the scar at home was two Lieutenant
Generals imp Major Generals, three Aides-de-Cauip ot, the
Prince Regent's,e and two of the Commander in Chief. The
saving in the foreigu corps would be 140,0001. The foreign
Stall had been realacial one General, five Lieutenant Geixrals,
fifty Major Generals; and a further redaction of two Major
Generals, two Aides-de-Camp, and an Adjutant General ; and
in Jersey anal Guernsey two Lieuttmaut Generals would he
struck °IL lit Ireland there would be a reduction of two lieu-
tenant Geuerals and four Major Generals. The Commanders
of the Forces at Ceylon, the Cape, the Mauritius, and Gila altar,
wouid be removed, and Lieutenant Genet als put in their plata s.
This measure would produce a sal ing of at least 1:1,91,31.
the Supernumerary Office there was au increase this year of
19,0001. chiefly arising on pensions for retiring (Mice's. In
the public departments of the Connuatultr il, Chief, the War
Office, and the Ads ocate General's Office, there was a sitving
of 16,00a1.—( Hear, hear.)—Gentlemen should recollect, that
the labour of reducing the army was greater time that of con-
ductiag it in its perfect state ; and that reduction could not
take place nil at once.—The Military Allowances bud increased
130,0001. The Chelsea and Greenwich pensiiais had increased.
3,8001. The out pensions on these establislinteats 10,0041.
'rite widows' pensions had increased also 6,4001. In the Vo-
lunteer Corps there was a diminution this year of 43,0001. In
the Lucid Militia there was also a diminution M*203,0'401. 'lliere
would this year be no charge for training, and the regiments
were reduced one half. The whole reduction on the Foreign
Corps would be .055,0001. On the Military College 3771. In
the Military Asylum there tuts an increase of 11,0201. lo the
incidental expellees there was a diminution of 1311,0001. Ou
the Compassionate Fund, an increase of about 7,0001. In the
Commissariat of Irclandithere was this year a saving of 100,0001.
and in the barracks 31,0001. 'flue Noble Lord then N ent through
the other heads of expenditure, and observed, that compar-
ing the expenditure fur the present year with that of 101 l
there would be found a saving of s,ao 1,0001. and as compared
ith last year six millions ; and he (Sather anticipated a saving
of at least one usiilion, in the peemeht year, IMsides widelt
2,000,0001. included in the present estimates were pei mamma
charges not attached to the arsuy. The expense of nutiataining
the :10,000 men in France would be I:90,0001. ; and if that
army were redeye'', the amount of hall-pay and pensions to
the officers and men would he 206,0001. He would not then
trouble the House with more calculations, recommending the
discussion of each Resolution separately. Ili then moved •
Resolution, that 1iC,1;14 men be maintained fur the service of
(treat Britain and Ire:and, including the armies in France and
the colonies, but exclusive of the troops kept up by the. East
India Company. • •

Mr. ANA Es contended, that it- nos the proper function of
the 'louse to curtail these Estimates Wilkey thought lit, nod get
to address the Throne for their reduction. Fur the present
year he thought there ought to be no reduction in the force in
Ireland but he hoped a better system wochl he adopted for
the benefit of that unhappy country. No sack case ofnecestay
h u d been made out for the amount of the other parts of our force
as had been shcwu for Ireland. If !lire had, he would not have
hesitated to ha% e vote•! fur it, on the declared necessity of the
case. He considered the late Treaty of Peace as being more
likely to secure to us permanent thinquillity than any Treaty
he could refer to ; and taking that, together with the repnta-
Con and quality of our army into con, ideration, there could be
shewn no necessity for maintdiniug so large a Military Eqa-
bliliment.

Lord Caert.cnemitt said, that having been prevented by
indisposition from delivering his opiiii n on this great epic-rico,
he was anxious now to take the earliest opportunity of express-
ing hiS sentiments on it. He was p:t pared to admit that they
could do nothing in the way of savin, which 'they Ad nut owe
to their constituents, without compromising *lick real interest,
by breaking deon a system of security. whirls would invoive
us in enormous expeitee to re-estaklisb.—He„ trusted the Com-
mittee w mild not steer .Ministers ;a be clamoured down la) a
cry that they were adverse to economy. There was no set of
own whose interest and duty it more was to adopt or to reCI.III.
mewl economy than his Majesty's Ministerr.—ltut be to
dispel that cloud of prejudice raised agsir.st thew. Last year
the 110.i.e soted the greatest suns ever pot tinder the contretil
of any Government ; for the whole amount, including the &tit,
was 120 millions. We were then engaged inn roost tremendous
which had been brought to a fatieurilile conclusion;
and with every attention to econou:y, for the (mutest was finish-
ea, leaving a sum of .11 millions un-expended. The present
was not a perfect return to a Peace I•stablisliment ; hot lie
Loped that return would be sooner sheeted than after may
former war; for atter the American war we had an inalaul-
rushed Establishment for several years. The reduction of tha
army of the line haul been very considerable ; and our cs pen-
diture would he reduced from 80 millions to YU. /lc felt MID.
vinced, after Government were idiom to throw eight milliona
of Property tasmisni Tutu the laps of the public, that they tcthe
public) would not feel much regret that it shook' be emainned
for a year or two, in order to preserve the character el the na-
tion. He trusted that the British manly spirit which bud sup.
ported them throuchotit a long and aruluens war, vroited Imre
(uphold a system of e.doblisliment for their country which V. 0 Ilid
preserve Unit country entire.
Mr. Cs t.crtarr proposed an adjournment.— (Cries of Qin*.
glob, (herniate ! Go on, tio tut !) .tfter some eomersarion ; AIP
was Agreed that the Committee should sit again on %tscitnis.
(.1n .
Adjourned at past two In the wornius.

MATWIT rn