The Sun.
London, England, 1855-02-17 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 17, 1855.

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already given directions to Lord Raglan that when, from cir-
cumstances such as these, a' regiment .was so reduced by
casualties as to induce him to send it away, that it should
1101toze eie
be sent home to this country rather than to the depots in the
h,. --.2, OF LORDS--(YESTERDAY.)
A 4 Mediterranean, where it might disturb others, and give a
i 6 1113 CHANCELLOR took his seat on tee woolsack
l's Wee, , false and exaggerated impression of the hardships of thee
tqi 1, dock. campaign. With reference to the last point to which eh
rCIWIS presented a petition from ' a brooch of noble earl adverted, he must say that he quite agreed wit
him in thinking that the officer of a regiment, or the captain
"Eneand Extension Society against. any
of a company, was quite as much, - and perhaps even more,
The College of Maynontle. entitled to credit and reward for taking care of the men under
RAFTESBURY . presented a petition his charge than for leading them •on in the field. (Hear.)
ration of spirits from grain. Another point to which the noble earl referred was the selec-
THEse ARMY: tion of General Simpson for service in the East, to
ho
,ENBOROUGH wished to call the attention claims and character he had hardly done justice. Thewnoble
earl appeared to be under the same impression as that of the
Gary of War to two pledges which were public in general, that General Simpson had. beenbsuctotthaotutwtaos
/ weeks ago by the noble duke who lately take the command of one of thheadvahceitenntodoilviiesdions,
into action for a
namely, that a clasp should be granted to ntthe ease, ande.hisFsioorvira'
services
at
that he could learn of the state
ight at Balaklava, and that he would corn- . different
of th a puyrPohae believed the general staff required to be in-
First Lord of the Admiralty, and ewer- spected -from -its head to the lowest member, andte
situation
done, or was intended to be done, with that there ought to bo an officer in ouheadsr army
of departments in h
linen engaged in the battles 'in front of Se- of chief of the staff, to convey ,tothe
express hi . hope that in a matter so inti- . the orders of the General, and whose duty it should be to see
that those orders were properly, quickly, and implicitly carried
with the feelings of the army, the 'present
out. -There was a corresponding office in existence in the
not neglect to do that which the late Go- French army, instituted in the time of Napoleon, and this was
ootnised. - The n ble duke had also promised the mission with which General Simpson had been charged.
/Id be founded on the principle of that Of His duty as chief of the staff would be to take Lord Raglan's
Austria, and that of St. Cent° of Prussia, . orders, and convey them- to the quartermaster-general mid
adjutant-general ; to inspect and review each of the staff de-
anon soldiers as well as the officers te obtain ' partments throughout all its ramifications, and to report to
'ewards. He did hope that no time would Lord Raglan the fitness or unfitness e
kofntohelevzieouhseohffinceleorsf
,fog an order of such eminent utility, and composinSimpson,g those
sbranches.well,ts. From
:way for which 'was the more immediately
serving
in
those aepartments and their capability of performingoftheth
characterw of the officers
eir troops were fighting by the side of the
the duties devolving upon them, he felt convinced that the
Ted on the day following a battle .from the gallant general would make the departments of the Quarter-.
iral the military decoration which rewarded master-General and Adjutant-General more efficient than, ho
alour. (Hear.) A short time before the was sorry to say, they appeared at present to be. He had
'mike of Newcastle). left office, he introduced great confidence in the zeal and capacity of General Simpson,
'ice an alteration of great importance, by who had assured him that, though age had crept upon him
aiagement of the animals engaged in the since he was engaged in the service to which the noble earl 1
the army and its baggage from the commis- had so handsomely referred, yet he believed himself still ca-
He trusted there would be no objection pablo of rendering efficient service to his country. He begged
the 'minute or memorandum by which the now to proceed with the duty of presenting to their lordships
Istituto& (Hear.) He wished to take this a bill, which he hoped to be able to carry through as speedily
'verting to two or three points of consider- ,as possible, for enabling her Majesty to limit the period of
Their lordships must have observed that service still further in the army. Their lordships were aware
la had been granted " for distinguished that the period of service was limited in 1547 to a period of
in some cases very painful doubts had' ten years by the act passed in that year. That act had not
:et to the correctness of the judgment been in operation for-a sufficiently long time to enable them
eromotions had been awarded; and in or- to judge of the-effect of a short period of enlistment, but in
,em, and to prevent them arising in future,. the present emergency, with the view of obtaining a class of
1., that it would be very desirable that, men more capable of enduring the hardships of war than those
the nature of the distinguished services who were now commonly enlisted, he proposed to introduce
He knew very well that let the honesty a bill to enable her Majesty in Council to declare that she
* his exertions to discover merit and re- would accept the services of any man willing to enlist in her
hey might, his decision would not in all Majesty's service for any period under ten years, taking those
the public opinion of the army. But men at an age not under 24 nor above 32. This would enable
iuld be made to render the promotions them to engage a class of men for a short period of service,
honours awarded, entirely in conformity who would be fit to undergo•immediately, from the strength
'the army itself. In order to assist the -of their constitution, the hardships of the field, and who, on
Is respect, and for other reasons, he would completing the period of their service, might not find them-
rernment that it would be desirable that selves tied to a profession they had no desire to continue iu.
the example which had been set in the This would be taking a step in the right way fee providing
oft war, both by the Emperor of Russia their' army with proper recruits, inasmuch as to take young
,f France, and send out from time to time men of 18, and send them out to the Crimea within 6 months
mid visit the army and return and report after they had left their homes to represent the valour of the
that they might become thoroughly in- country, was to send. them 'to a task for which they were
real state in which things were. • (Hear.) totally unfit.' Great complaints had been made—he was not
et, he could not help adverting to the ex- in a Position to say whether with justice or not—against the
.Unpleasant feeling which had been created in commissariat department of file army in the East. It had
promotions having been granted almost been said that that department had been lax in obtaining
the staff rather than to regimental officers. provisions and supplies, and in distributing them when ob-
s was no doubt that officers of the staff were tamed, and that it had to a great extent failed in maintain-
personal danger—certainly were less exposed lug the army in the condition which they had reason to ex-
`time and discoinfort—than the officers of the pect. He had, therefore, determined to send out a commis-
a' hand, perhaps, their duties were of a mission to inquire into the whole of these matters, and he
what more intellectual description. But - had obtained for that commission the services of a gentleman
:es performed by the officers of the line whose name he had but to mention to prove to their lord-
dal to the very existence of an army, and of ships that he had endeavoured to find for it the man most
lighest importance that the Government recommended by former services rendered in the East—Sir
sly- informed with respect to the manner in John Macneill. That distinguished gentleman had under-
Performed. When troops in tie§ field were 'taken immediately to leave the employment he filled with
heal fighting, the proportion of cases of sick- so much credit to himself and usefulness to this country in
) the whole number of officers and privates Persia, and to conduct a searching inquiry into all that had
:tty much the same. But there was no taken place. He had not the slightest doubt that Sir John
lin the Crimea the sickness and deaths Macneill's knowledge of the sources orsupply would prove of
rtes had infinitely exceeded the proportion the greatest use, and enable him to render the utmost possi-
borne to their whole number, according to the ble service on this commission. With respect to the hospi-
'of sickness and deaths amongst the offi- tales, they had taken great paius.within these few days to in-
'as not aware of any reason which could ac- form themselves as to the exact state of these establishments.
enordinary discrepancy, and if the Govern- They had already taken means to clear out the hospital at
leer to the Crimea, as he had. recom- Scutari, and place it on a more healthy footing, and ho had
the first subject to which his attention sent out instructions to remove from it the depot of troops
,• He observed, from the accounts received qua•teked there with.the women and children, so that the
nit there was the greatest discrepancy in the barracks might be placed exclusively under the control of
ikness in regiments placed in precisely simi- the medical department. Above all, he had put an end to
That was a subject requiring the c,osest that which struck him as the great source of many serious
scarcely, possible that a regiment should moral evilso-the sale of ardent spirits within its limits. They
as some had been, in such a way that tho had also established an hospital for convalescents at Smyrna,
commissioned officers were practically ex- entirely under the control of civil practitioners. They had
the officers remained, without there being taken means also of providing opposite to Scutari hospital
lay on the part of the commanding officer accommodation for 5,00 e men, in detached buildings or huts,
Wherever one regiment or one company apo which would be placed under the charge of a staff of civil
More free from sickness than others placed practitioners, for he regretted to say that the army medical
' circumstances, the conduct of the corn- staff was scarcely able to supply the demands made upon it by
ker the captain to whose care of his men this the service. These, it would be admitted, were great and lin-
o itee receive the strongest marks of approbation portant improvements, which should be carried out with the
reeinoSiltrand that he should receive promotion. least possible delay, for he was aware that there might be
Peared, as in the case of the 63d Regiment, demands made at any moment for hospital accommoda-
NVbeen almost destroyed without there tion for the sick and wounded, which, unless measures
tee circumstances to account for it,, it was were taken beforehand, it would be utterly impossi-
lOpovernment to mark in the strongest man- ble to. supply. He had been forcibly struck by the
- .tion of the officer in command. (Hear.)
. imminent chance of a great danger arising out of the
' Which he desired to advert was this. He state of the camp, occupied, as it had been, by a largo army
noble baron had appointed General Simp- stationary in it for- some months. (Hear.) Although the
°tle of the divisions of the army of the Cri- inconveniences thus created might not be perceived at pre-
eei thought it right to state what he knew sent, when things were locked in the icy grasp of winter, yet
the beginning of 1843, when Sir Charles the moment the sun began to'warn them, fermentation would
-in Saluda, he (the Earl of Ellenborough) take place, and the refuse of the camp would breed a pesti-
tensions that, in consequence of his illness, lence unless immediate measures were taken to prevent it.
stroke, the army might be suddenly de- Accordingly, on Friday last, he had addressed despatches 'to
.L;cs; and he had also reason to fear that, Lord Raglan, directing him to take steps in conjunction with
ieePrevailing in the army, the command our ambassador at Constantinople to get formed a corps of
,'4B totally inefficient. Undet these eir- scavengdrs, which would immediately- proceed to perform
"18 (the Earl of Ellenborough's) duty to saavenger's work in the camp. (Pleat.) In order to have
'lore Indian army the . man whom he C 01181.• proper directions and superintendence in the performance of
3310 for the command. 1-le chose General
the work, ho had ,deterinined to avail himself of the services
Oharles Napier afterwards told him that he of three, gentlemen connected with the sanitary operations of
:looted a better man ; that he was a perfectly this great city, sending out one to the hospital at Scutari,
-w who, under all circumstances, would- do
andetwo others to Balaklava and the camp, to take the au-
el be done. Undoubtedly, 12 years, no incon-
pervision of all sanitary arrangements,' with* the view of ob-
a man's life, had since elapsed, and he (the viating the danger that would otherwise arise of the ravages
tgh) should not have liked now to appoint of disease. Another point to which he wished to refer was
, i ' without having ascertained by a private and the transport service of the army, to which his noble friend
s4tilatilr.`t,rview with him that he felt that perfect cona- who preceded him in office had given his attention, as his
i'lk,t ttlOrityliltialth was such as to enable him to perform right Lou. friend at, the head of the Admiralty bad turned his
~,"441t -ttls!etititn, duties of his command. But, supposing
attention to theseaservica. His right hon. friend had thonght
"k 8 oult a eeltilat interview was satisfactory, he did not it right, and he entirely concurred in the view, to establish
r4e / lth-lie (17.te nPPointment could have been made ; that a transport board, which during the war should bo charged
-e.
(kip--';aaZ:illig that the principal commands in the
with the transport of our army and other stores, and which
t 00..) in the hands of officers of that advanced should be iu immediate communication with the Minister 1
of
140.4
• - War, so that no delay might occur in forwarding stores to the
ee ' after expressing his regret that the noble points where they were wanted. Ho might mention further
vet,
hat h_ lan, notice of the questions which he had that, es General Harry Jones had arrived out to take the
° quite concurred with him in thinking that command of the Engineer department, ho had thought it
I am
rewards were distributed to the army for his duty to recall Sir John Burgoyne to the office he had
long filled with so much advantage to this country—that
t'la the field or for their 'good conduct, the of inspector-general of fortifications under the Boardd
iof
I},ll°ltrs were conferred the more weight would Ordnance. Another great subject, though ofowseesoevny,
,et--:, 'hem. And he therefore quite agreed with moment to t thes cthenatditoifoietheofeivtlille alrayn
of the nil-
' '' ill thinking that no time should be lost in
in
litartyh administration.aawa‘ To this department Government was turning
'tl)ll°,inises given by the noble, duke (the Duke of its attention as speedily as possible ; but until he could say
'no sanction of the Government of which he that everything had been done and was doing in order to re-
' more especially those relating to that new class medy trio neglects and' deficiencies that had occurred in the
the British
army to which reference had been Crimea, and could give satisfactory assurances teat things
would go on better for the future, subject to no other casual-
manner true that much consideration must be ties than such as we had,no control over, he could not promise
'ianner in which those honours were to be con-
that we might derive the benefit of the ex- to lay before their lordships any statement as to the adminis-
-1:0113 foreign countries into whose services they tration of the civil branches of the army. But he hoped be-
fore long to be able to do So,. and" to point out a method by
uhoed' but he could assure their lordships
which, under the control of one Minister, the civil adiuinis-
nki be lost in taking steps to enable the
tration of the army might be Concentrated, whilst its diseip-
-1.1 the army and navy to be rewarded imme-
line-was maintained under the, control of the Commander-in.
' the scene Whore they took place. The next!
the noble earl adverted was with respect to Chief. As soon as they obtained a sufficiency of transports, it
was the intention of Government to establish a communication
which the entire credit was - clue to the noble
every week or ten days between Scutari and England, with
held,of Newcastle) who preceded him in the
steam-boats fitted up as hospital ships, capablelof bringing
and who, so far from having neglected,.
having home' 300, 400, or even 500 wounded or sick, who would be
, his ng attended to the interests of the army
far sooner restored to-the • service of the army, or at least to
,',kktil▪
i'llts_at ',char.ge, had, as he (Lord Panmure) hadh
health, at borne, than they could possibly be at the place
e es to belieoe, done the utmost to ,conduct -t e
where they now were ; for he had been informed, both. by
i,„ a department_ efficiently, although, from various
medical gentleinen and others, that such was the state of the
14R e wamar mainly from the circumstance that we were her- medical
in those regions that wounds scarcely ever healed
k 4,„, t indi,rh a peace establishment—neither.. he norf
properly, and, fever supervening on them, were hardly cur-
V Kith able. could have administered the affairs o
able. Under these circumstances, it appeared to him that,
ZOO, ea Much more success than he had done. Much,
with a view to saving the, lives of the men, the most effectual
e\Nlit be rehlained to do; but what the noble -duke had
means thatconld bo taken was at once to remove to their
~Oi` the great made the groundwork of future proceedings.
homes in this country the sick and wounded, so that they
\kik/NIP:4s in theett improvements that
these taken place in the
might have the benefit of comforts procurable hero, and might
114 weeti establishment of orps known as the
recover health much more rapidly than if left in the hospitals
iteitralist3°,l: miss," which supplied the' place of the
abroad. (Hear.) . .
i eielitiLt abed to the Duke of Wellington's army.
tiltlteltt the g officer of this corps, which had been formed The Earl of SHAFTESBURY said the statement of his
noble friend at last afforded some hope of mitigating, if not
to exertions of the noble duke, embarked on Mon-
L)t -wth
tZ4.%1 e seat of war, and the officers and men of the averting, the great disasters that seemed hanging over the
1.,,5t i,, quickly as possible rallyround him. He would heads of our army in the East. He was apprehensive, how-
i7see,, tee, 8 charge, altogether independently of the com- ever, •that we had not yet retched the maximum of the
seot-SbeViltire land transport of Lord Raglan's army. danger' and that the amount of disease created by the diffi-
OsTte of 'to which the noble earl adverted was as to the culties and privations endured throughout the winter would
' 'ti,ending out an officer to the Crimea, to see and be as nothing compared to that caused by the sun's heat in
the coming spring. At present, the hospiatals in the East
oKNO the actual state of the army. Well, it was his
ol▪ e :oh, the house that the Cabinet had already deter- were in such a state that it was almost impossible that any ,
eNeNte"..‘ out an officer who should report as to the sick our wounded man who entered one should recover ; and
', eole.Oee:f the army, both physically and morally; whoonly that morning he had seen a letter stating that those in
Balaklava were more filthy than any knacker's yard in the
t eeleeonilleate with Lord Ra.glan, and be able to informth
OlVil-",nt with, espect to his views, not onlyh:gli
wmase. city Of London. He felt exceedingly grateful to his noble
friend for the steps he had taken to improve the medical and
4,140.7 openY, but also as to the . campaign
lOOes keel': This duty would require forexweculetion an other arrangements of the army, and anticipated the greatest
eNt le °standmg--one, in whom the . greatest confi- possible benefit from the appointment of the commission to
exam* into what had taken place.
0 k 'sl' the' reposed—and one between. whom and the corn-
OtiNlie ,rlnY' jealousy could not arise. Having found I The Earl of HARROWBY wished to know if anything was
•,t Person he (Lord Panmure) hoped at an early to be done to improve the condition of the harbour of Bala-
ee'tOe(.lDot M 'possession of his report, and that by that klava. He feared that the appointment of Admiral Boxer
k'''le, thel
te--,°sverllment might'beenabled to act on many points to the command at that place was
.not one that would beth%et-
i'l iltile- 's4ecess thanhadyetattendedtheitefforts. Henow assuring to the public mind, associated as the name of ,of
LI e'-'ltee- °nicht of promotions,. which. was a very difficult officer had been with all the defects in the arrangements
elle're, eCnieeect for those to deal with who were at home, the transport service at Scutari.
n,, berrefore, not perfectly aware of the services that Lord PANMURE could state that whilst Admiral Boxer
Netee to °rated. He believed that-the promotions which had been appointed as the officer with immediate control
;anCaee dabe for " distinguished services in the over the harbour, instructions had been given to Sir Edmund
ktiellettilee '°t naery as the noble earl had said " for (Rs- , Lyons, in conjunction with Lord Raglan, to take ever?, step
'i;teZ of:srviees." Now, if Lord Raglan, or the com- ! possible to see that the existing confusion was brought into a
iNilinetlflsYe arnlY recommended an officer for promotion state of something like order. Civil officers, accustomed to
Mme heel services in the field, he did not see how the the business of custom•houses, had also been sent out to assist
'eh• "4 hi." at home could go into further details with re- in landing and taking charge.of the stores.
14!Ith„4‘ t,,,- SerViCes. It must be assumed that .they were
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH wished to knew if Sir John
e"tileliewarriont the general commanding-in-chief in re- , Macneill -would have authority to remove any obstructions
kieOl'ilt and his promotion ; for he though:. it would be vet y
and redress any grievauce he' might discover, or only to re-
ek't'tie'he fscnneoehat dangerous for those who were 3,0 A _
port as to their existence. It appeared to him that one great
,70 Of thr°lll the xecene of actiop to interfere with the dis- ;
' source of error and delay was to be found in the system of
;4C„',11 -,"2 consmender in rewarding stich services. He .
accounts, with its various cheeks and precautions. However
ntlt'f 41 .e'ver, co teas that he was Inclined tae t that !
excellentlythese might work in time of peace, it was vain to
oie Jilts oi-litmele occasions een a cliserepineY in the peo-
I xnect that they could be efficient in time of war, when cer-
Ns„Vreeewiell those rewards had been allotted to the staff taintye and despatch in the execdion of orders were the great
tlits:cioll o.,nlental officet.srespectively-; and it was his deter- : e .
at 4lea ° '°°k- into particularly with respectto I requisites.
0 set arch the subject, . Lord PANMURE. said
.Sir. John Macneill would not have
~s 4 hear which had been been given to regimental officers. 1
1 powers either of dismissing or appointing persons, but he
v;izetillg,leeo
t4heith reference to what the noble earl had
I would be called upon 'to report both to Lord Raglan and tire
se comparison be had drawn beto-een the .
Orav srument at home, and to 'suggest any changes which he
t,lls,lrrele e°l' Jae Men and the offieers he must say that he
n.igl'!t see would be necesary in cocting the business of
44,14'n1e -'at such a comparison would tend to benefit !
- ithe army. It wool be for Lor sariaglan to make those
'tae. '4te to C was quits sure the noble earl did not mean to ;
. changes on his own responsibility before th report le ached
ett4etielea at th© officers had refused in ally way to share the. !
the bands of Government, but it would also be conveyed to
Ne' whieZ'ilheir men ; for h believed there never was an I them, and, whether Lord Raglan should deem any change
oie. Weee,a.attached to tea more devoted band of 41 ;
: - ! called for or not, it would be the duty of Government to con-
eee 111)04 the
trenches, or in
ce" of thl•," 't was in the. &I'd, in bearing privations, m
older whether such changes should be made. • - .
VA), '4 tiro l'i° whatever duty they had been i
perform, they had cheefully shared with their - The bill -was then read a first time.
THE TRA-NKSeOF THE' HOUSE.
hied, . le ao lships which the hard duties of the camp in-
Ne'll exist certainly could not account for the disproportion s The LORD. CHANCEL R read a letter received that
hee 'Peale end between the sickness of the men and tho offs- morning from Admiral Lyons,L° dated ti 30th of January, ac-
tq't'llte '-'a(l yet to be invest' tedand the &tin of the 63d knowledging the vote of thanks, which was ordered to be
lee olee'Particelar was o lga
h' ''
attention would be entered on the journals. , . • .
el 'lth ray dire& 4 H ne to w leo 110
4ee °rem "e • e could not conceive what could have - 'Lord CAMPBELL said their lordships must have observed
keh to th 4.°11 for the
except itan
he ' the 4' regiMnt,
MOrtality d • kniss which:had taken that the thanks voted by their lordships to members df that
ere 3, ha 17tha+, being very young ' house, who had distinguished thems Ives in tha army, had
Roe eee. d been suddenl called ' to perform very not been communicated 'to those illnstrioas lessons in their
alt/4..401,;:ter a' from b
et,htee more o
certainr ey laboriousuPooenwhseh the officers places by noble and learned friend on 'the woolseek. He
xtent, relieved. Ile had t gladly gave his noble and learned friend an opportunity of

explaining why the course followed ih the other house i"of
Parliament had not been followed there.

The LORD CHANCELLOR was exceedingly obliged to his
noble and learned friend for giving him this (,pportunity. Ho
had directed inquiry to be made as to the course taken on
former similar occasions, from the commencement of the last
century. It was found that the thanks of the house had
never been given to the individuals personally present, except
to a member of that house who had been commander-in-chief,
and never except on a special vote directing it to be done.
It was the custom when thanks were voted in the other
house that the resolution should be communicated by letter
to all the persons to whom the thanks were given except
these who were members of the house, and it was directed
that to them the Speaker should communicate the thanks in
person. But that was not the custom of their lordships'
house, and, inlependently of other objections, he had no
authority from their lordships to communicate the thanks
without special directions from their lordships. It had never
been their custom to do so, and whether their lordships
would diverge from the ordinary custom it was not for him
to say, but he had caused the matter to be looked into, and
he was happy in the presence of the noble earl (the Earl of
Cardigan) to express to him and to their lordships that there
was no blame to be attributed to him, because it was not cus-
tomary to do iu their lordships' house what had been done in
the other house of Parliament.

Lord BROUGHAM thought there could not be the slight-
est objection to depart from the ordinary course of practice,
but for one obvious and powerful consideration—that it
would tend to throw discredit on former members of that
house who had received the thanks of the house otherwise
than in person.
Lord CAMPBELL did not see the force of what bad fallen
from his noble and learned friend. It was better for them to
change the course that had been hitherto pursued, and to
adopt the course followed in the other house of Parliament.
He did not see how it could in the remotest degree be sup-
posed to reflect upon those who had received the thanks of
the house wken a different system prevailed.
PURCHASERS' PROTECTION AGAINST JUDGMENTS

BILL.
This bill was read a recond time.
FISHERIES (NORTH AMERICA) BILL.

This bill was read a third time and passed.
Their lordships adjourned at twenty-five minutes to se ren
o'clock. .

HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair shortly before four
o'clock.

NEW MEMBERS.

Lord PALMERSTON took the oaths and his seat on his
re-election for Tiverton. The noble lord was introduced
by Mr. Hayter and Mr. Granville Berkeley.
Mr. S. HERBERT took the oaths and his seat on his
re-election for South Wilts. The right hon. gentleman
was introduced by Lord Mulgrave and Mr. Bouverie.
Mr. SAMSON RICARDO took the oaths and his seat for
Windsor.

NEW WRIT.
A new writ was ordered for Cardigan in the room of
Mr. Pryse Lowden, deceased.

was any danger in such course of proceeding as may affect
the security of his seat in the House of Commons, if
returned thereto ?

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL, in reply, said that
the question was a somewhat abstract one, but the act
of Parliament was directed against anything done cor•
ruptly, but certainly was never intended to apply to acts
of bona fide charity such as thosa implied by the hon.
member's question.

from their scientific labours. lam sure that medical men,
whose time is daily occupied in all the details of the pro-
fession, have not leisure enough to consider those great
sanitary arrangements upon which the health and comfort,
and the lives, even, of many thousands of men must ine-
vitably depend. Lord Raglan has been authorised and
instructed to send to Constantinople, and to procure from
thence a corps of labourers, whose sole duty will be to
cleanse the camp—to cleanse it from that accumulation of
various things, which every man, who knows anything of
the habits of a camp, and of the calamities which have be-
fallen us in the Crimea, must know are perpdtually accu-
mulating, and which, when the warm season comes in,
might, if precautions were net taken, be attended with dis-
astrous results to the men living in that camp. Then again,
sir, many complaints have been made, and I am afraid not
without some foundation, of a want of system in the com-
missariat department (loud cheers)—of mistakes and want
of organization—(repowed cheers)—both as regards the I
supply and as regards the issue of things requisite for the
army. (Cheers.) A commission is going out, at the head
of which we have placed a vary distinguished man, well
known for his abilities andhabits of organisation--I mean Sir
John Macueill—once our minister at the court of hernia, and
now employed in the poor-law department of this country.
lie will be the head of that commission, and he will have col-
leagues competent to act with him. That commiasion will
go for the purpo'.eo of cxunining into all the defoAs to be
found iu the commissariat magazines in the Levant, to set
them all to rights, and to organise them on a more efficient
basis. In the British army there has not hitherto existed
an officer of that description who in foreign armies boars
the title of the chief of the staff. The consequence has
been that all the details of the e.ttiterinasier's and adju-
taut-genFral's departments have been brought to the com-
mander-in-chief, much to his inconvenience, and abstract-
ing his attention, perhaps from matters of more serious and
greater importance. Major-General Simpson, an officer
of distinguished services, who is well known for his ser-
vices in the Peetineula, at Waterloo, and in India, is going
out immediately as chief of the staff, to have the control
and comuaand of the quartermaster's and adjutant-general's
departments, and with power to recommend to Lord Rae-
lam any change which he might think ought to be made in
the different persons belonging to those departments ; and
Lord Raglan will no doubt think it his duty to adopt any
recommendations which Major-General Simpson may make
to him as to those matters. There has been also a complaint
and I believe a just one, that the medical establishment of
the army has not hitherto furnished a sufficient supply of
medical officers for the wants of the officers abroad. A
hospital is going to be erected at Varna, which will be
placed entirely in the hands of civilian medical men, and
civilians will be entitled to ask and offer their services in
any other part of the arrangements abroad in which their
medical services may be wanted. Bat the Secretary for the
War Department is going te remodel entirely the medical
departments at home. I believe that that is capable of
great [improvement, simplification, and probably of in-
creased efficiency, and I am confident that the labours of
this s n o
evening—tob le
my noble friend in that direction will not be less valuable
than in other departments of the Administration which
have been confided
sh
confidoretlyt—o
bcealriee.ve
friend
a l
presentso pro
poses
to the other house of Parliament a bill to enable her
Majesty to enlist as soldiers men of a more ad-
vanced age; I need not say more advanced, but somewhat
older than the limit hitherto fixed, men still in the -vigour
of life, but older than the ordinary range of recruits ; and
to enlist them for a shorter period than is assigned te the
general enlistment of soldiers under the present arrange-
ments of the army. I have omitted to say that hitherto the
commissariat abroad has been charged not simply with the
supply and issue of piovis • • ions and all other things wanted
for the service of the army, but has also been charged with
providing the means of transporting those things. That
has been the source of very great difficulty and inconve-
nience, and a separate department of land transport has
been established which will correspond in some degree with
the ancient waggon train, only upon a larger scale, and it
will be instructed immediately to set to work, and to col-
lect in Asia Minor the animals necessary for the service of
the army, and no doubt sufficient means of transport will
thereby be provided. During the short period that has
elapsed since the formation of the Government these things
have been done and are doing, and I should trust that the
house will be disposed to see the effect which these different
improvements and arrangements will produce. I am myself
perfectly convinced that the results would be known iu a
much shorter period than would be sufficient to enable a
committee even to make a report they could recommend to
the attention of this house. Sir, so much as regards the
arrangements for the prosecution of tho war, though I should
state that, in addition to those improvements of system, no
efforts will be omitted to provide reinforcements for the
army to enable it to take the field when the season shall
admit with increased numbers and augmented efficiency—
(cheers)—but similarly charged as we are with the interests
of a great nation, I have felt that it was our duty, not
simply to look to the best means of carrying on with vigour
an efficiency that war in which wo have nufortunately been
compelled to engage, but that it is our duty also to make
every effort which could honourably and safely be made for
the purpose, if it were possible, of putting an end to the war
by'an adequate treaty of peace. (Hear.) We had learned
that certain conditions to serve as a basis of negotiations
which had been concerted between the Governments of
England and France, had been concurred in by the Go-
vernment of Austria ; and having been presented to the
Government of Russia, were informed that the Govern-
ment of Russia had acquiesced in them as principles upon
which negotiations might be commenced. We deem it
our duty, therefore, to embrace the opportunity thus
afforded us for at least ascertaining whether peace could
now be obtained upon safe and honourable terms. Nego-
tiations were to be opened at Vienna; but being desirous
to give to those negotiations a most solemn, serious, and
earnest appearance—being desirous that no man living
should question whether we entered into them with a sin-
cere desire to make peace, pretending that on our part it
was merely a pretence to steal away time and to wait till
the successes of war might bring to us a better condition in
which we treat—we pressed upon illy noble friend, I will
name him—Lord John Russell—to act as negotiator.
(Cheers.) We felt convinced that when the negotiation
was placed in the hands of a man so eminent in his own
country, so distinguished in their eyes and in the estima-
tion of all Europe, so conversant with the details of all
the negotiations which had preceded, and so deeply im-
bued with a feeling of the importance of the matter- to be
discussed—we felt convinced that if Lord John Russell
would undertake the task we should have a security on the
one hand that if peace were obtainable upon honourable
terms, no failure arising from tho want of judgment or
knowledge on the part of our negotiator would prevent
our obtaining it ; and oa the other hand, we should feel
that, however the affair might go, we had made every pos-
sible effort to come to au honourable arrangement of the
quarrel. My noble friend honourably consented to under-
take the task, and I must say that no man ever did him-
self a high honour than my noble friend did in accepting
that under circumstances of such great—l will not say
national—but European emergency. My ,noble friend, I
believe, will proceed in the early part of next week.
Of course, he will pass through Paris, to have a con-
fidential communication with the French Government.
Ho will also pass by Berlin, in order to communicate with
the Government of Prussia; and whatever delays those
visits may interpose to his arrival at Vienna, I think the
time he spends in these capitals will not be misplaced.
Now, sir, if we should succeed in obtaining peace upon
terms which would afford a security for the future against
the recurrence of those disturbances of the peace of Europe
which have led to the war in which we are engaged, we
should think, sir, that our first acts in undertaking the
Government will be as satisfactory to the country as they
will be satisfactory to ourselves; but, sir, if we fail, why
then I think that the country will feel that there is no
alternative but to go on with the war—(cheers)—and I am
convinced that this nation will then with greater zeal,
with greater alacrity, if possible, than ever, give its sup-
port to a Government which, having made every possible
attempt to obtain peace, should have failed in doing se,
and is compelled to carry on the war for the attainment of
that peace—a war which the sense and judgment of the
country have pronounced to be virtually indispensable and
necessary. (Cheers.) We shall in that case throw ourselves
upon the generous spirit of Parliament and the country ;
that generous spirit I am confident we shall not ask for in
rain. (Hear, hear.) lam sure that in that state of things
all our minor differences and mere party shades of distinc-
tion will vanish, that men of all sides will feel that they
are Englishmen, and that they ought to support their coun-
try in its great emergencies. I am confident we shall show
the noble and glorious spectacle that, as a free people and
under a constitutional Government, there is a life, a spirit,
an energy, a power of endurance, and a vigour of action
which are vainly to be sought for under despotic rule or
under arbitrary sway. The noble lord concluded by mov-
ing that the Speaker do now leave the chair, and resumed
his seat amid loud cheers.

tion of the noble lord of the two right hon. gentlemen to
whom he has referred. But certainly it never could have
been supposed by Lord Derby that if the noble lord after
reflection considered it was not in his power to join his Ad-
ministration, he was at liberty to snake application to two
other right hon. gentlemen, stating at the same time that
he was authorised by Lord Derby to offer them seats in the
Administration my noble friend was about to form ; and
that he was thus to take two prizes, though he could have
nothing himself to do with politics. (Hear, hear.) I must
say, I think, if the noble lord, after having received the
proposition of Lord Derby in a tone of encouraging friend-
liness, found upon deliberation, that he could not himself
accept a place in his Cabinet, it would have been a frank
and straightforward course upon the part of the noble lord
to have informed Lord Derby of that result, in conse-
quence of which any negotiation with the friends who ad-
here to the noble lord must have failed. Sir, it was not
my intention, for many reasons, to have adverted to
these things. It is the noble lord who introduced
the subject, and it is in vindication of the conduct of Lord
Derby that I allude to the circumstances which the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer has in a most marked manner
mentioned in a communication to Lord Derby, and which
has boon read in another place. Well, air, the attempt of
Lord Derby to form a strong Government has felled, not-
withstanding the encouragement of his overtures by the no-
ble lord. The attempt of Lord Derby to form an administra-
tion which should inset the exigencies of the times, the
feelings of the people, the wishes of the Throne, and the
demands of the country has failed ; but let it not for a
moment be supposed that Lord Derby refused at any time
to form an adruiuistratiOn with such power as he might
possess, provided no other body of public men, except his
folio were, were ready to servo their Sovereign. Under no
circumstances did Lord Derby refuse to form a Govern-
ment. The attempt of Lord Derby to form a strong Go-
vernment has failed. The attempt of the noble lord to
form a Government has succeeded ; whether it be a strong
Government—whether the noble lord has formed a Govern-
ment such as the country has a right to look for is a secret
at present in the womb of time. (Hear.) The noble lord
has certainly felt justified to enter into a panegyric on the
great qualifications of his colleagues. They pc asses adminis
trative abilities of a high character. They possess, accord-
ing to the noble lord, great political sagacity. (Laughter.)
They are distinguished, according to the noble lord, by
truly liberal opinions. Well, sir, there are gentlemen be-
low the gangway who are better judges of the value of
the political opinions of the present Government, and on
that subject I need not tench ; but at least I may form
some opinion of the administrative ability of the noble
lord's colleagues, on which he has dilated, by the advan-
tage of experience. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) One
would have supposed, according to the noble lord, that the
new administration which presents itself for the first time
to-night to Parliament, consisted of a body of distinguished
and experienced statesmen who had for some time been
withdrawn from public affairs--who had been remote
from the observation and from the criticism of their con-
temporaries and of the country. (Laughter.) When, how-
ever, we recollect that that ministry which the noble lord
says is so distinguished for its administrative ability, for
its political sagacity, consists of the same ministers who
only a few days ago were, in the opinion of Parliament,
remarkable for their deficiencies—(hear, hear)—were less
conspicuous than any body of public men for their politi-
Cal sagacity, I say I think it was an unfortunate introduc-
' tion by the noble lord when he dilated ou their qualifica-
tions, and rendered it necessary for me, on an occasion
like the present, to make any remark. I should have
thought a solemn silence more becoming the occasion. If
I had been the noble lord I would have dwelt more upon
the future than upon the present, and I do not think he
exercised a wise discretion when he recommends himself
to the confidence of Parliament on the strength of the ad-
ministrative abilities of men who have been recently con-
demned for the want of them—(Hear)—and whose politi-
cal sagacity has brought upon the country a great and ac-
knowledged calamity. Well, sir, what was all this a pre-
face to on the part of the noble lord ?—his allusion to the
failure of some, to the success of others, in forming a Go-
vernment—that dwelling on the distinguished personal
qualifications of his colleagues and companions—what was
all this a preface to? The noble lord does not appear to
me to have been happy in the first address which he has
made in this house which he is now to manage, for he has
compared
the House of Commons to Wat Tyler. (Laugh-
ter.) This seems a strange comparison for one who ought
to be as proud of being leader of this house as of being the
chief in this councils of his sovereign. But the noble lord
says you have succeeded in your sedition. Now the time
is come when you are to return to your allegiance, and re-
pose renewed and removed confidence in the new Ministers
of the Crown—who are the old ministers whom yon have
recently condemned. What a strange string of reasons
has the noble lord given as his arguments why the house
should rescind a resolution which it had arrived after so
prolonged a debate and in such a full assembly. The noble
lord gives us a catalogue of what ho describes as improve-
ments in the administration which the newly constructed
Cabinet Las decided upon. Of course, it will be much snore
easy for ns to gauge tie merits of the measures of the new
Cabinet, when we have them more in detail, and have had
an opportunity of examining a little into the matured ar-
rangements. But admit for argument's sake that they are
all improvements, necessary improvements, urgent im-
prevements, inestimable improvements. What a satire on
the late Government are these improvements ! (Hear,
hear, and laughter from the Opposition.) If these improve-
ments are necessary, and of so urgent and inestimable a
character—if these improvements are to be the means of
extricating us from our difficulties, what becomes of the
predecessors of the Cabinet—(hear, hear)—of those men
who, for so long a period, not only neglected to fulfil those
necessaryeduties, but to the last hour of their existence ap-
pealed to the house to say that these charges were net
necessary, and that there were no circumstances which
demanded any improvement or any investigation—)hear,
hear, no, no, and counter cheers)—and who declared that
the desire on the part of the House of Commons to inquire
into the causes of the raismano.gement--which is now not
only confessed, but is to be remedied—was a vote of want
of confidence in the Administration, and condemnatory of
their character as public men ? Why, sir, let the House
of Commons well consider what is asked to dd. Ono of
the finest armies which England ever sent forth myste-
riously disappears ; disappears, not by tie sword of the
enemy, for that we might endure, meet again, and van-
quish. It disappears by means so mysterious that a most
experienced statesman, with all the advantage of the inte-
rior secrets of the Cabinet, confessed and announced in this
house that he could not penetrate or understand the causes
of the mystery. The House of Commons must recollect
this—that the position in which it is placed is not that of
a public calamity which suddenly urges and stimulates
some independent member from feelings of patriotism—al-
though not, perhaps, of prudence—to call for an inquiry,
and to re-echo the voice of an anxious nation. Sir, the
gravest Minister of the Crown, the First Minister of the
Crown in the House of Commons—a man of whom
of all parties the house is most proud, who had pre-
viously been Prime Minister of England for a long
period of years—a man whose qualifications, whose sa-
gacity, whose wisdom, whose statesmanlike qualities have
been justly eulogised by the First Minister on the Trea-
sury bench—a man who, although he had unintentionally
destroyed hie late colleagues, had already been employed
by them on an august mission—this eminent person came
down to Parliament, and told us, with all the advantage
of official experience, that ho could not penetrate into the
mystery of this national calamity, and that he thought an
inquiry ought to bo granted. Supported by this autho-
rity, and re-echoing the universal opinion of the people of
Great Britain, the House of Commons—not in haste, but
after a debate which occupied at least a period of many
days, with unusual numbers, with members hastening
from all parts of the country, and by a majority almost
unparalleled in the records of Parliament— declared that
an inquiry was not only the duty of Ministers, whoever
they might be, but that an inquiry by a committee of the
House of Commons was the only mode by which the im-
provements that might be necessary could be indicated.
Now, we are told to-night that the House of Commons is
to stultify itself—that this House of Commons, which
only ten days ago, under circumstances of such unmis-
takeable conviction, sanctioned by the high authority of
the leader of the House of Commons, the First Minister of
the Crown in the house—that this House of Commons
which arrived at this solemn decision is to recede from the
ground it so triumphantly occupies, and is to rescind a re-
solution thus solemnly arrived at, and, if they consent to
do so, are to inflict a blow on its reputation and public in-
fluence which a long period of yours will, in my mind,
never counteract. What is the strange argument of the
noble lord and his reburnished colleagues to induce the
House of Commons to do this ? The noble lord has shown
that great improvements are necessary, and that Govern-
ment is prepared to admit the necessity of remedying
the present state of affairs. Well, sir, if these are the
rich fruits which we have already obtained, what may
we not obtain from the inquiry ? I do not know
what honourable gentlemen may choose to do on this
subject, but I know- what is the course which I shall
take. (Hoar.) I shall endeavour to support in every
way the decision of the house—(hear, hear)—and what I
feel is the strong and wholesome opinion of the country.
(Hear, hear.) I am for inquiry, and I am for a parliamen-
tary inquiry, into the condition of the army before Sebas-
topol, and into the branches of the Administration which
should have prevented the lamentable condition of the
troops. Sir, we hardly know what is the consequence of
our adhering to the solemn resolution at which we have
already arrived ; but I cannot suppose that the noble lord
is about to commence his career as First Minister by
attempting to control and menace the opinion of Parlia-
ment, which has been given in so influential a manner.
All I can say is, that if so, I am ready to face my consti-
tuents and vindioate my conduct as their representative.
I shall never seek a more favourable opportunity of so
doing than when there was an unparalleled disaster falling
on the country, and when one of the greatest blows which
has ever been experienced by Englishmen has occurred.
When following the advice of a great Minister of State,
although he sat on an opposite bench, I support such a
resolution of the House of Commons. The noble lord has
flattered--I will not say held out hopes to - the country
that there may be a release, which has so often been pro-
mised us, but has so often avoided its accomplishment. I
need not assure the noble lord on the possibility of circum-
stances at which we shall all rejoice, that as far as gentle.
men who sit en this side of the house are concerned, be-
cause we feel that no one who occupies the position of the
noble lord will over consent to terms of peace which are
uusvorthy of the occasion—which would not justify our
having had recourse to arms. The noble lord has stated
that if these attempts to obtain peace shall fail, ho will
appeal with confidence to the support of the house, and to
the country. The noble lord will not appeal in vain, but
he can receive no support from this side of the horse for
the prosecution of the war which his predecessors have not
already received ; for never was there an Administration
which received from an Opposition so cordial a support—a
support so sincere and hearty as that which was received by
Lord Aberdeen's Ministry from the Opposition during the
time he was inotlice. Never was there a Ministry which
entered into a war with such advantages as the late Mini-
sters and their identical representatives a unanimous peo-
ple, a unanimous Parliament, magnificent troops, and a
magnificent fleet, and, as we know, nut only a cordial, but
a powerful ally. How seen with such advantages could
hare realised such disasters—(hetsr, hear)—how on such
vantage ground they could have so mismanaged the nansirs
of the country that with a unanimous Parliament they
have yet contrived by the aid of their own political env-
porters to have been overcome by a crushing majority, the
future historian only will be able to explain. But, sir, let
us on this occasion—elthough we have the same indivi-
duals in a now form now regulating the affairs of the
country— lot us hope that those men, who a fortnight ago
were unparalleled blunderers, may now, fortunately, be
transformed into expert statesmen ; let us hope that those
men who, with unprecedented resources, realised either no
results, or only disasters, may now—a fortnight having
elapsed—open new and unexpected scenes of success, of
prosperity, and of triumph ; and lot me assure theme that,
as long as they attempt to do their duty in conducting
this war, they may reckon, so far as the Opposition is con-
cerned, on the same support which their identical prede-
cessors received. (Hear, hear.) I doubt not, if disaster
be their lot, if maladministration be inseparable from their
condition, when they fail they will, like their predecessors
the late Government, not be able to impute their want of

Mr. DISRAELI--Sir, I was under the impression that,
upon this occasion, it would not have been necessary for me
to refer to the conduct of individuals in transactions which
preceded the formation of the Government of which the
noble lord is the head ; but the noble lord has introduced
into this discussion the name of a noble friend of mine in
sach a manner that I am sure the house will not think it
unreasonable on my part if I make one or two remarks with
reference to the introductory part of the address of the no-
ble lord. It is true, as is well known, that the Earl of
Derby was honoured by the commands of her Majesty on a
recent occasion to attempt to form an Administration to
carry on the Government of the country. Under those
circumstances Lord Derby was influenced by only one con-
sideration, which was the expediency at the present mo-
ment of forming a strong Government for this country.
Considering the emergency which now occupies all our at-
tention, and which demands our utmost energies, Lord
Derby was of opinion that it was the duty of a statesman,
consulted under those circumstances by his Sovereign, to
advise her Majesty that every effort should be made in or-
der that her Majesty's affairs might be conducted by an Ad-
ministration that hail the confidence, and more than the
confidence, of Parliament and the country. Sir, it was with
that view that Lord Derby opened the communication with
the noble lord ; but (I am quite sure unintentionally on the
part of the noble lord) he has in my opinion conveyed an
impression to the house which would induce the house ra-
ther to misapprehend the motives by which Lord Derby was
influenced under t hose circumstances and the object which
he attempted to accomplish. It should be borne in mind
by the house that this was not the first time under simi-
lar circumstances that Lord Derby had felt it his duty to
open communications with the noble lord in order to
form an Administration for her Majesty ; and I believe
I may say that on previous occasions not far distant—
about three years ago or more--there had passed those
communications between my noble friend and the noble
lord opposite which convinced my noble friend (Lord
Derby). that between himself and the noble lord there
was no difference of opinion on all the great subjects of
policy which should at the present time prevent their cow-
-1 ing together and uoi:ine• their energies in order to form
that which I believe the Sovereign and the country alike
boem with hehad
another
been
desired—a strong 4u.l,efficicut Government. Sir, the noble
lord on that preview. occasion had, with a frankness
which was becoming enough, informed Lord Derby that it
was quite impossible for a statesman of his eminence and
suddenly to combine men
with
u
body of public men, bowever pure, however patriotic, with-
out suffering a lossin his character, and without being sub-
jecttutting,
and
to misconception iu public opinion, which would mar,
and justly mar, his opinions as a public man. It was on
that occasion that Lord Palmerston Stated to the Earl of
Derby that it was impossible for him to join Lis (Lord
Derby's) Cabinet alone, that he had friends whom he
should wish. to accompany him, and the names of those
friends were mentioned in conversation. Therefore, when
my noble friend made this communication to the noble
lord to assist him iu his endeavours (which have been un-
successful) to form an Administration, my noble friend an-
ticipated the position in which the noble lord now stands,
and as it were continuing the conversation of a preceding
period, he said he was perfectly prepared to meet the diffi-
culties. Had the noble lord joined his Administration
there would have been no difficulty, of course, to the elec.

111-11.1; se eq. tesszese,
• •
su Ce Se to the factious conduct of thonef *so esikoppeint*.i...;
to them, but to the recognition by -tlib::iso*sifry eefetyatis
total want of the qualities which the -crisis terinirerb =and "'
which the country at this moment is most in need of:,
Mr. RICH rose, amidst loud calls for Itleallkiebnek. rfe
begged to remind the right hon. gentleman who had just sat
down that the persons whom be had called unparalleled
blunderers were about to be put by Lord Derby over his
(Mr. Disraeli's) head. He was one of those who had voted
for the inquiry, for he was determined that the inquiry
should then have taken place ; but it must be romembere I
that he had said that, if an inquiry could be instituted
which would elicit the truth, and which would be a eubsti.
tut. for what every ono knew to ha the cumbrous ma.
chinery of the House of Commons, he would not insist on
a committee. The noble lord (Lord Palmerston) had ex.
plained that various commissions would be sent out to the
spot, where the greatest mismanagement had occurred,
who would investigate and make reports. \He hoped these
reports would be submitted to the house. On the strength
of their being so submitted, and believing that if this were
done they would he in possession of the required informa-
tion quicker than it could be obtained from a committee,
he would accept them as the alternative proposed by the
noble lord, which he was sure was for the interest of the
country. If the noble lord made these arrangements, he,
for one, was willing to place confidence in him, and lie felt
that the disperagemeuts of the right hon. gentleman whe
had just sat down were unjust, anti would be proved nn-
founded.
Mr. ROEBUCK—Sir, the committee for which I moved,
and which I intend to name next Thursday, has already
been decided upon by the house, and the argument adduced
by the noble lord to persuade the house to rescind tho re-
solution is that a new Ministry was now entering upon
office for the purpose which he stated just now, that is to
say, that the house having determined a fortnight ago that
the Ministry was totally inefficient for the purpose, that
the army had dwindled away, that disaster and calamity
had befallen us in the Crimea, and that is consequence an
inquiry was requisite, the noble lord now comes forward
and asks the house—to use the words of the right hon.
gentleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli)—to stultify itself. He
asks this house to rescind the resolution, to retire from its
advantage, and to allow the present Ministry to do that which
the late Ministry was confessedly unable to do. On what
grounds does the noble lord make these demands ? That
there is a new Ministry ; but aro there new Ministers
No, but the cards are in new hands, which, iu spite of the
eulogy of the noble lord, and the qualities whioh they are
said to possess, and which I suppose are not improved in a
fortnight, the house decided were totally inefficient for the
purposes into which' proposed to the house to inquire. Now
the noble lord supposes that there is something antagonistic;
between the committee sitting and the Government. The
threat of inquiry has brought about these revolutions.
The inquiry may jog them ou, and we shall get further re-
forms by the inquiry, if it is carried out by this house.
Sir, a committee which has published a blue-book on the
Civil Service states that any Administration is totally un-
able to reform the service, and they propose an Act of Par-
liament to do so. Now I propose that the House of Com-
mons should assist Government, for I believe Government
totally unable to carry out such an inquiry as is requisite.
The Prime Minister, when he is put into power, finds per-
manent officers upon whose assistance he has materially to
rely. Now, nothing but the power of the House of Com-
mons can enable the political chief to overcome the zis
inertia; of the departments ; and therefore I propose, in
spite of the noble lord, to continuo the proposition on
Thursday next which I have on the books, and I shall move
the names of the committee. In so doing I really believe
that I shall aid the noble lord to remodel the institutions,
and to infuse vigour and pith into the Administration of
the country. The House of Commons will lend to the
noble lord its assistance to obtain the pith and vigour which
he will not be able to obtain by his own unaided power.
Mr. MUNTZ said he would not consent to sultify him-
self, for he had voted for the inquiry in the belief that it
would materially benefit the administration of the public
service. He still retained that opinion, and if anything
were required to justify it, it was the words of the noble
lord that night. He (Mr. Muntz) wanted to know what
would have been done if that vote had not been passed by
the House of Commons ? The House of Commons had
done its duty, and put an end to a Ministry which refused
all reforms whatever, and he believed that if the house did
not do its duty now it would sink to a low ebb in the esti-
mation of the country.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said the noble lord, who appeared
for the first time at the head of the Government, had told
the house that Government would be their committee of
inquiry, but they had already condemned Government, and
they wanted to have nothing to do with the Government,
who would only stifle the inquiry. They wanted to inquire
into the conduct of Government. The noble lord had men-
tioned certain reforms, but the men who were to institute
those reforms ware the men who had already been con-
demned. He asked where was the real political change in
the Government? It appeared exactly the status quo ante
Roebuck. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord stood higher in
public favour than Lord Aberdeen, who was supposed not
to be qualified to carry en the war, and to have a friend-
ship of forty 'years' standing for the Emperor Nicholas,
whereas the noble lord is said to hate the Czar, and to de-
light in war—(hear, and laughter)—and this persuasion
had placed him in his present position. He (Mr. T. Dun-
combe) did not think the noble lord had made any reflec-
tions on Lord Derby. Lord Derby's conduct had been
wise, patriotic, and prudent in not attempting to make an
Administration on the old terms. Then came the noble
lord the member for the city of London. The noble vis-
count was ready to join him—(laughter)—but the noble
lord had been unfaithful to his colleagues and to the house,
which bad received him as its leader for two sessions,
without au official responsibility, and he ought to have
been able to present a better case for his desertion of his
post than he had done on the present occasion. Ho (Mr.
Duncombe) was not surprised that the noble lord had
failed, and he, for one, should have been much disappointed
if the noble lord had succeeded. The noble viscount had
explained the services which were to be entrusted to Lord
Panniuro, as the substitute for the Duke of Newcastle.
They had had some experieuce of Lord I'anmure, and he
believed that be was the worst of the two. The noble
lord the member for the city of London seemed to think
that it was necessary that the Secretary of War should be
a member of the House of Commons, and should be a man
of vigour and mind. Lord Pan mure was not in the House
of Commons, and he did not think that he was a man of
vigour and mind. The war was to be carried on
with groat vigour and energy by the new Ministry,
but the noble lord had not explained what he meant by
vigour and energy in carrying on the war. The words
were in everybody's mouth, but nobody could explain
them. Now he (Mr. Duncombe) thought that carrying
on a war with vigour was to defeat the enemy's army, to
destroy his fleets, to devastate his country, to bombard his
cities, to raze his fortifications, to blockade his ports, and
to destroy his trade. This was what ho called carrying on
a war with vigour and renergy, and what the people of
England understood by carrying on a war with vigour and
energy. Of course to do this there must be an army and a
fleet. There was a magnificent fleet, but they were told
that it was "badly manned, and worse disciplined," and a
gallant admiral had made that statement. All he could
say was, that if they were to judge of the insubordination
of the fleet by the conduct of its admiral, it must be in a
sad state. It had been said by some parties that there
were only 12,090 or 13,000 of our troops before Sebastopol,
whilst the Chancellor of the Exchequer estimated the
number at 30,000. Now that was a fair matter of inquiry,
and mould of course be investigated by the committee. He
did not blame the noble lord for attempting to discharge
-the order for the committee. No doubt the order was an
inconvenient one, and the noble lord said as much the
other night when he (Mr. Duncombe) put a question to
the hon. and learned member for Sheffield. But the
matter was now out of the hands of the hon. and learned
gentleman, and the nomination of the committee rested
with the house. (Hear, hear.) The motion for the ap-
pointment was considered by the Government in the light
of a vote of censure, but he (Mr. Duncombe) did not vote
for it as a vote of censure. Ho intended his vote to imply
mismanagement and distrust. (Laughter.) The moment
for censure had not yet arrived. Inquiry was needed, and
censure, probably, might follow that inquiry. If the commit.
tee should perform its duty it would point out the real de-
linquents. If they should turn out to be military men, let
them be brought to a court-martial and tried for neglect of
duty. He did not believe that so much blame attached to
parties at home as to parties at the seat of war. In his opi-
nion the commissary-general and the quartermaster-general
had ill supported Lord Raglan, aad if that was the case they
ought to be trieclby court-martial and punished. (Hear.) If
they could throw the blame on parties at home let them be
brought to account, whoever they might happen to be. It
had been said that the projected inquiry wont(' impede the
Government reforms which were now going on. But why
should it do so ? The inquiry was to be into the past, and
theicontemplated reforms might at once be proceeded with.
(Hoar, hear.) With regard to the negotiations for peace,
he supposed something would bo heard from Lord J. Rus-
sell after his visit to Paris and Berlin. He believed that
the people of this country meant one thing, and that the
Government meant another. The people had entered in-
to the war in the hope that the arrangement made at the
congress of 1815 would be revised. (Hear.) If Lord John.
Russell were now present, he would ask the noble lord not
to forget, in accordance with the wishes of the people of
this country, the wrongs of Poland, the wrongs of Hun•
gary, and the aspirations of that priest-ridden country,
Italy. (Hear.) The people expected these questions to be
mooted. The house had heard nothing from the First Lord
of the Treasury about Sebastopol. If Sebastopol was to
remain a fortress in the hands and under the control of
Russia, did any one suppose that a permanent peace could
be established. That would never be the case if that fortress
was allowed to remain to overawe the East and every coun-
try that might come in contact with Russia. (Hear.) He
hoped the House of Commons would say on the part of this
country, and that the Emperor of France would say on the
part of his country, that they would never rest satisfied
until the standards of England and France should be found
floating triumphantly over the ruins of Sebastopol (cheers)
—and that the Autocrat of all the Russias—this King of
Poland, this heaven-born champion of the orthodox race—
would be at last compelled to acknowledge and confess that
his hypocrisy, tyranny, and lawless ambition must for
ever cease and determine. (Cheers.)
Mr. HORSMAN thought the Conservatives were so
fearful of being thought factious that they had not per*
formed their duty to the nation by offering a stronger op*
position to the late Government, the history of which, he
feared, would be one of the darkest pages in the annals of
England. His own side of the house was also to blame for
the over-confidence it had accorded to the Governmenti
until awakened by the dreadful calamity in the Crimea.
He thought Parliament could not safely recede from the
position it took up three weeks ago, and should keep thin
inquiry in its own hands.
Mr. E. BALL said the country never would be satisfied
if the house consented to rescind the resolution it had
•
come to.
Mr. PHINN supported , the suggestion of Lord
Palmerston to postpone the operation: of the committee
until they should see how the Government acted.
Mr. LIDDELL said it was a disgrace to this country
that almost the existence of our army depended upon the
assistance rendered by their allies in the way of food and
clothing. He contended strongly for the necessity of pur-
suits the inquiry.
vAN-sarAuT expressed his satisfaction of the ap-
pointment of the noble toed the member for the city of
London (Lord J. Russell) to a mission to Vienna.
Mr. LAING urged that the recent change in the Achille
nistration did not indicate such an alteration in the minis-
terial policy as held out an assurance of more vigorous
management or warranted the house in rescinding their
late vote.
Lord EBRINGTON expressed his satisfaction with the
measures of invigoration announced by the Prime Minister
as being already planned or in execution.
Mr. DA,NBy 6EYMOI.T.R had hoped the recent chugs

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fn the Government would have been the commencement
of an era in which the war would be vigorously prosecuted.
He could not, however, see in the speech of the Premier
any signs of a change in the course which was previously
adopted. He saw nothing, in fact, but small changes in
the personnel, of the Government, and in the measures
which had been taken b3fore. He regretted to see the
noble lord (Lord Palmerston) surrounded by so many of
the former Administration. The first thing he had hoped
to see the noble lord do, was to infuse a little more
new blood into the army. But what had been done ? An
octogenarian had been appointed to the command of the
army in Ireland, and the admiral who managed things in
such a shameful manner at Constantinople had been sent to
Balaklava. He regretted that the appointment as Under-
Secretary of War of his honourable friend the member for
Aylesbury (Mr. Layard) had not been made, because from
the beginning of the war his honourable friend had given
many proofs of his' long experience in the country which
had been the scene of a considerable part of the contest.
If Admiral Dundas had been the cause of the honourable
gentleman not being appointed, he (Mr. Denby Seymour)
thought the admiral—who had certainly not merited the
thanks of the country—had a very heavy responsibility laid
at his door in having, from a personal motive, deprived the
country of the services of the hon. member for Aylesbury.
He trusted the noble lord (Lord Palmerston) would give
them a reasonable hope that he would carry on the war
with a'commensurate degree of vigour this year. If such
energy were shown in its prosecution as characterised the
era of Nelson and of Wellington, it might easily and
speedily be terminated. lie regretted that up to this time
the blockade of Russian ports had been a mere nominal
operation. (Hear.) The lead for the very bullets which
had destroyed so many of our brave soldiers was, he believ-
ed, exported from this country to Odessa since the com-
mencement of the present war, and that through the
neglect of the admirals of the fleet in the Black Sea. Ho
bad been surprised to hear the reports which had been
made by the Admiralty as to the state of the harbour of
Balaklava. He himself thought the deplorable state of
things there was very mach to be attributed to the circum-
stauce of the masters of the transports going there tieing
paid demurrage for every day they remained at Balaklava.
Every day they were left there resulted in:so much money
being put into their pockets. He heartily deplored the
horrors of war. No one could wish more cordially than he
to see an honourable peace concluded, but he could not say
he had confidence in the present Government that they
would conclude such a peace as would be honourable to the
country. He thought it derogatory to this country that
a statesman in the position of Lord John Russell should
have been sent to the congress at Vienna, to meet no other
statesman of equal rank. He considered, at such a moment
as this, that the mission of the noble lord was peculiarly
inopportune. He would only add that he (Mr. Seymour)
was not an opponent of the Government of the noble lord.
He earnestly desired that the noble lord might succeed;
but until the noble lord held out some definite intention of
making a more extended system of reform in the various
departments of the State, he (Mr. Seymour) could only
give him a qualified support.
Admiral BERKELE Y, with respect to the charge
against Admiral Dundee of keeping the hon. member for
Aylesbury out of the Ministry, wished to observe that,
when the thanks of the House were voted to Admiral Dun-
das, if the hon. member for Aylesbury believed that the
accusations ho had made against that gallant admiral were
founded in truth, it was his bounden duty to his country
and his constituents to have stood up in his place and re-
sisted that vote being carried unanimously. (Hear.)
Lord HOTHAM wished to know whether the Govern-
ment intended to take the whole of the navy estimates and
then the army estimates, or whether they proposed to ask
for a vote for men and money, and to limit themselves to
those votes ? If the. Government would so limit themselves
he sheuld not object, but, in the absence of a most impor
taut document which had not yet been laid on the table, it
was impossible that the remaining votes could be discussed
with justice. He referred to the Royal warrant founded
upon the commission issued upon the state of promotion in
the army, which had not yet been printed.
Sir J. GRAHAM said it was not intended to proposeany
vote this evening relative to the army, if the hones would
consent to go into committee on the Navy Estimates.
Admiral WALCOTT had regretted that Odessa had been
spared and suffered to remain the granary of Sebastopol,
that the army had remained so long upon the plague-
stricken shores of Tanta, that the strength and means of
resistance of Sebastopol had not been better known to us,
and that the supplies necessary for the reduction of the
place had been so tardily thrown into our camp. Let us
deal to our chiefs an impartial judgment and a generous
confidence ; their honour was dearer tothem than life, and
their anxiety at this moment must be intense. We had other
battles to fight, and, if we sustained and supported them,
he trusted they would add to the fame of Alma, Balaklava,
and of lukerman. When he thought of those battle-
fields, in which soldiers, sailors, and marines had shown
the highest qualities of man, risking all for the glory of
their country—when he thought of the dangers they had
encountered and the privations they had endured without
desponding, he gloried in his native country, and he never
knelt clown but he invoked the blessing of God on their
arms.