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London, England, 1820-02-22 00:00:00

BOROUGH WRITS BILL.

Lord Jour► ltussmi.t. moved the Order of the
D•sy for the secoad resdittig of the Writs Sa.pets-
stint Bill.

Sir CIIMMO; BURRELL expressed much obli-
gation to the Noble Lnrd for his diligence rad per-
severauce in considering the subject connected with
these Bills, and also bore testimony to the liberality
•hewn by another Noble Lord (we believe Lord
Castlereagh), in his conduct respecting the mea-
sure, a liberality which he entreated that Noble
Lord still further to extend, by pressing sit adop-
tion of his own conduct upon lets official colleagues
in the Upper House, when the same subject should
come under their consideration.—(Hear.)

Mr. CALCRAFT was surprised at she very dis•
orderly allusion just made by his Hon. Friend;
for whatever may be the Noble Lord's influence in
that House, he was not disposed to attach the same
weight toll in another plate. lie was one of flume
Who thought, that if the Noble Lord were even
persuaded to exert his influence its the manner al-
luded to, it would not be possible for him to do to
with the supposed effect. Much •as he (Mr. C.)
admired the views of his Noble Friend, the mover
of this Bill, and much as he respected the prin-
ciple fur which lie was contending, he mill thought
it quite impossible that he could succeed in carry-
ing the present measure. It was surely ton
much to expect that any assembly would give
their concurrence at once to his Noble Friend's
views, embracing four cases, when they had
only had evidence before them respecting one.
—The Lords had certainly rearward witnesses
upon the Barnstaple case, and lie should like
to know whether on that evidence they were
now 'Prepared to pats a Bill. The present Bill not
only called upon their Lordships to pros AAAAA lICe an
opinion upon the Barlistaple case, but also upon
those of Penryn, Grampound, and Camelfursl.
Their Lordships had as yet no information in the
shape of evidence on winch they could gre 1 a
concurrence in Cite steps taken by the lower I loose.
As they had no reason to expect Well a concur-
rence without evidence, he thought by far the
better course to proceed would he, by an Address
to the Crown, to suspend issuing the throe writs of
Penryn, Grampound, and Camelford, until the
House had had ass opportunity of tskiog further
steps therein. That would be the right course,
and shew the House to be in earnest in the miter;
it was alto according to the precedent to be found
in Mr. listsell's book of authority. This sug-
gestion of throwing the step to be taken into the
hands of the Crown, he perceived, created some asto-
nishment in the minds of some of his lion. Frieudi
near him. But did they not rest on the Crown as
well in the present course about to be taken—with-
out its assent the Bill would he uttgattay. Hr re-
peated his disbelief that they could proceed with the
present motion in any hope of its receiving attention
elsewhere on this emergency. The preses,t Poi nano,'
of this business skewed strongly the great meows,•
nience to which the country was exposed by the
conduct of his Majesty's Ministers in recommend-
ing an iinmediate dissolution of this Parliament.—
( Hear.)—lle enforced his opinion that the better
course would be, to request the Crown not to issue
the particular writs so as to have opera' at the
approaching elections. Ile lead the it Kest de-
sire that people who had so misconducied tiv•-sn-
selves should be deprived of the privilege which they
bad abused, and lie spool ht the course lie recom-
mended the one most likely to promote the real
object of all parties.
Mr. WYNN said they must be all quite 'Treed
they could nut discuss what might be done in the
other House. But it was quite clear, be thought,
that such an Address as the one recommended by

his Hoo. Friend Calmat) would at once go in
the overthrow ut the Constitution, soil of the whole
Irvine of Parliament.—(Hear.)—See the situation
in which the adoption of such is course would place
thew if they were to address the Crown. not to ad.
dress precepts to particular places. 11 the Crown
could withhold these precepts at their roggesnoit
it cotil d• so without eousultiog theta.—(Hear.)
-11 the Crewe could do so to l'enrya. it esight to
au lowa or coital; its fingleed.--(Hear./—lite

•i
will well aline that this was not be first ►ifltr this
course recommended by hie Hon. Friend had been
suggested. He recollected it came out in a notable
plan of reform, poblieheil ender the great mime
and authority of the Hampden Cl, i. The inert-
sirlois from that body of lemma was, that the
Crown should suspend the Ouse of writs to
color boroughs. Nothing could be More extra-
ordinary tiara .to hroach such a ilocirjue sutler
the name of Hampden. That power was,
he knew, formerly claimed by the Crown, and
in consequence the issue of some writs was sus.
;ended. The Commons then took up the subject,
and emitended, that the boroughs from which
writs were withheld ought to be represented. It
w.s on that occasion John Hampden was returned
-for the borough of Wendover—a place from which
the writ had h-en previously withheld by the Crown.
—(llear.l—No subject can have hie rightti tiaten
away, except by the Concurring Consent of King.
Lords. and Comesons. He would go as far as
env man to maintain the just rights, privileges,
and authoritir• of that House, and he was the last
who would wish to see them hslarded,,hy being
citrisded beyond their legal boundaries—they were
their grririest euemies who. would so extend them.
—/Hear.)—They had their Speaker,• who was
buuml to obey their orders ; but of what use would
it he for them to resolve that the Lord Chancellor
al lit nut issue a writ ? The authority of that
.House was necessarily suspended during a diieolu-
lion ; and the Lord Chancellor, instead of bring
empowered by one Parliament to withhold a writ,
might he impeached by a foture House for doing
such ins act. Any order, in fact, to interfere, un-
der such circiiinvtances, would be illegal and
void of authority. He was, therefore, on the
prevent accretion. most anxious to adhere to the
Noble Larril'i plan. He thought it legal and
constitutional. It was said there was no evi-
dence to justify the step proposed by the Noble
Lord (Lord John Russell). What was that step ?
It was oot, es was surmised. to prejudge the ques-
tion. It was only to suspend the writs until Par-
liament h rd ass opportunity of following up the
inquiries new in progress. The preamble of this
Bill did not state that those boroughs had been de-
clared guilty of corruption—it only art forth the
opinion which that House entertained upon the eel-
deuce submitted to it—it was the mere declaratory
npiiitnn of that !Inure, and not of Parliament.
They hail, he thought, sufficient evidence to justify
the course proposed by the Noble Lord. lie
thought, frosts a review of the whole, it was inexpe.
theist that the people at those particular boroughs
*boobd on the present occasion be intrusted with a
poorer which the House had sufficient reason to be-
lieve they hod grossly abused. A prima /ode care
had, lie thuogmmt, been made out to warrant the
House in pamiimig an intermediate Bill. It was
clear that a system of corruption had been establish-
' ed in those boroughs, and it ought to be suppressed.
Alr. MASULTATT was as desirous as any man to
give effect to the Noble Lord's view of this care,
but at the seine time they ought to proceed in ap-
plying r remedy with the same caution, wisdom,
end diligence which would characterise a Court of
Justice. In the first place, he thought here they
had not sufficient evidence on which they would
be justified su coining to a couclusion; indeed, one
Honourable Member had- giveu sootier of an intros-
tiros to cell more witnesses. It wits obvious that
there might be various shades of criminality in
these bomoughs. Distinctions may be drawn be-
tween the guilt of one and of another; they may
not all be upon the route level of culpability. The
first intention was to disfranchise one borough—it
was then extended to three, atid a fourth was after-
' wards added at the suggestion of an Hon. Member.
It was said, that if this step were nut taken, these
corrupt electors would have another opportunity of
following up their guilt. He thought quite the re-
verse would be their conduct after what had already
taken place. Nearly half the electors of Grant-
pound were now in gaol fur their misconduct, and
the terror of a similar puoislinieut could not so soon
he lust upon their neighbours. The too Mendel*
were also in gaol, and this would, he thought, deter
oilier candidates from couutenenciug such practicer.
Under such circutustsuces, he thought this was the
very best time at which these people could be in-
trusted with the exercise of their privileges.—
(Hear.)—ltideed, he thought this part of the cumin-
, try could, utter what had passed. be better intrust-
' ed than ever with the exercise of the elective fran-
chise ; lie could not lay lend upon ally quarter in
which these was a fairer chance of a return to good
minuet than in thole very buroughs.—(lleur.)
The House, while it was so very tenacious of its
privileges, should slew an equal anxiety fur those
of the whole mil the people. With respect to Barn-
staple. lie war struck with the discordance between
the statements of witnesses ill that House and at the
bar of the Lords. This made hen snore cautious
in the course he would take upon that evidence.
lie certainly should vote against a Bill to take
away the dearest rights of Eteglislimen. without tie
gravest fullest inquiry.
Mr. Ilttotmustax was fully impressed with time
importance of the proposed measure. It required,
lie thoughts little sagacity to see that this was not
the peitud when the subject could be discussed
with that gravity which belonged to it. Men's
minds were not now in that calm state, on the eve
of elections, in which they ought to lie for the coo-
sideratmou of the ultimate course which they ought
to adopt. The main object was to disfranchise
three boroughs, and to make a ttansference u: the
rights of fourth to another body of people. He
was quite aware that the measure now proposed was
for a temporary purpope--that it did not go to the
disfrauelsorement of these boroughs, but to place
their privileges in abeyance pending the delibera-
tion of Parliament upon the case of each. He
was nut, however. one of those who thought the
Howe justified on that lemma alone to take the
course recommended. He did wit think these
boroughs of such importance in the general scale
of the representation as to make their ',lemony at
this moment tiny very great object. Whatever they
did lie thought should be done by Bill and not by
Address to the Crown, fur he fully felt the force of
his Honourable nod Learned Frieuil's observa-
tions (Mr. IVynti), that if the Crown could at
their suggestion• withhold a writ. it could do so
without their. recommendation—a power which
would be subversive of the Constitution, nor could
he see where the rimier of such a power should
be sasde to stop;. If uuce tried in this wooer is

a borough, it might be applitautsersally, or to
any town or comity. He AlitrW not concur in
what had been said of the'lehonee that the ex-
ample of punishment already given, would ope-
rate powerfully Upon'others at the approaching
elections. He had no expectation that these people
would all at once
.iiisplay soch peculiar purity.
While On this Milijeit he could not help bespeak-
ing their clemency for an individual who was suf.
fering for an act connected with these transactions.
The sentence of an individual, and as it was a
matter of record, he might name him, Sir Manes.
seh Lopes, the sentence of that individual may he
just, but it could hardly be called lenient. The
reason he called the attention of the Home to this
cam was, because one of the prosecutions took
place at .their instigation. Of the individnal he
knew nothing, he had never seen him, correspond-
. edSaitls him, Cr had the slightest connexion which
Could interest him particularly in his fate; and he
Thought that ST the House expressed • desire to
mitigate Isis punishment, after he had suffered
whatever part of his imprisonment was deemed
proper, the Crown might be disposed to look
et the situation of the individual, which other.
wise would perhaps be passed over unnoticed,
. Jest it should be considered any interference with
their undoubted privileges. The individual, he had
heard, was sixty-eight years of age, and perhaps
on that account an object of some clemency. In
throwing out a hint that this Parliament ought not
to break up without recollecting the situation of
this unfortunate gentleman, lie begged distinctly
not to be considered as meaning in any degree to
palliate the offence of which he had been convict-
ed—it was an offence against morality and the Con-
stitution; it was not at all a venial nice. nor indeed
a rare one. The Court that pronounced the sen-
tence was liable to no imputation whatever, yet
still he thought the sentence might be mitigated,
and it perhaps would, if the House expressed an
opinion that clemency were in such a case advisa-
ble.—( Hear.)
Mr. SCARLET'S* was of opinion that it would be
indelicate to interfere in the manner proposed by
his Hon. and Learned Friend, with the terms of
a sentence pronounced (and in this case justly pro-
nounced) by the Court of King's Bench. He
should think too, that in this case, of all others,
the sentence should be upheld, to satisfy the peo-
ple out of doors that such offences could not be
lightly passed over. It was an offence against their
privileges, and an invasion of the constitution—
it went at once to corrupt the source and origin of
their liberties. He should feel the greatest' reluc-
tance io interfering in such a case. He thought
the Court had acted discreetly in pronouncing a
sentence which would 'thew the public, that what.
ever notoriety belonged to the offence, whatever
favour it might be considered entitled to in
the eyes of Minister., still they (the Judges)
would act upon it as became the rigid adminis-
trators of the law.—( Hear.)
Mr. BROUGHAM, in explanation, begged to re-
peat, that lie had not said one word to extenuate
the nature of the offence; on the contrary, he had
fully admitted its heinousness.
Sir JOARPH YORKE perfectly concurred with the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman in his opinion upon
the severity of the sentence, and the necessity of
recommending its mitigation. What he princi-
pally rose for was, to put in a word for Swann,—
(A Itmgh.)—He ought to be taken care of also.
His offence was besides of a lighter kind: it
was done by a mats to whom he had lent •
check for 20/. This man went to him and offer-
ed his sole,' if Sarum would cancel the debt.—
" No, I'll have notinng to do with you," woe
the proper reply. Swaim told the nom to get
about his business. But by and by the election
twining hard, his ftiends pressed upon him to
secure this vote. and consent to coned the debt.
" Good God, Sir !" said hill agents, " you had
better run up and settle the matter, and let us not
lose his vote."—lA luttglt.)—The good-natured
Swoon left the matter to his agents, saying be
would have nothing to do with ilie fellow. Hoe-
ever, the end we-, the fellow's debt was cancelled,
but lie cunningly insisted on getiiing the check to
I ',hew his wife, to satisfy her all was right. It was
torn and afterwards pasted together, got by the
°Noosing agent, and used against Swann on a charge
of corruption. Under such citcurustanceS, he
thought him entitled to the interposition of their
clemency.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY could not concur in the
sympathy which had been used towards these gets.
tlemein With respect to the Bill before the House
lie certainly lamented that it included four bo-
roughs, and exposed the measure to a sweeping ob-
jection. Camelforti stands differently situated from
the others, and perhaps required exclusive legis-
lation, particularly when it was recollected that it
stood unrepresented for a considerable period. The
case of Camelford was clear, and the persons who had
been guilty there ought not to be intrusted with the
el. ctive fisinchisr. Ile could never consent to see that
borough invested with the power of returning two
Members. If they were prinsilleil now, the eff,ct
might be, that they would send two proper persons ;
then the argunieut would be, " See how puce they
have now conducted their election ; we ought
therefore to bury in oblivion their previous mis-
conduct, and leave them in the full enjoyment of
rights, the enjoyment of which they now fairly sp.
preemie." He could never consent, after what hod
passed, to give them an opportunity of evading the
penalty which they had so justly incurred.—
( Hear.)
Lord' Coct.artason said, though he did not
entirely approvepf tbe Bill, lie would yet, if it went
to a division, give it his vote. He disapproved of
it in soma part. because it went further than the
Shaftesbury case; but, at the sante time, he
thought enough had transpired to warrant a sus-
pension of the write. Nevertheless, lie did not
think the Bill 40 important as to supervene future
inquiry, or preclude wore ample discuseiou for the
important subject to which it referred. The Noble
Lord made a few other observations, which we were
unable to hear in the gallery.
Sir Jests MACKINTOSH contended that There was
a prima facie case made out to justtly the adoption
of the proposed Bill ; abundant evirlvice had. he
thought?, been given to warrant the course they
were about to take. They, were toot oltooLtio oak
the other How to disfrattelsiser these ghs ;
then. indeed. they most present their Lordships

will sufficient evitleher to invify soli a •t.p
0,11 only now asked th.t some credit •nd
should be given to their proceedings, which
gone a eiw.tillrrable Way, and that foetus AHIO4
tre toheu to give them ultimate .11.-ri„ surd,
it would be seen they had far,e
to
sjusitify the issi Den_on now sinigni, .hell
it was recollected they had brought in Mil.
respecting two of throe• boroughs, susnsnile,l
the writ in the case of the third, a.. 41 in the
fourth brought in a Bill of transference. which 1,„,1
advanced as far as the second reading. In lino
state all they asked was a provisional measure, a,.,1
it was strictly founded ass the prec..ib•iit l`f
sborie.bury ease, the irrwisnible of which At r.. 01.
and which eorrespooded with that of the prt,e, t
measure.

Lord CAITLEILEAIIII eXpinititil II at the
measure went to create a Mote of things dfiGref,t
from that regulated by the Shaftesbu,y re -e, trim Is
was adopted after ample evideni e fool tort„ h,„,1
upon the 'object.
Lord Jowl Russet.t. lamented that the pre.s.,,t
course was rendered necessary by the slipro4thieg
end inconvenient disoulution of Parbantrit% If ti„.
Bill were not parsed now, he agreed with the Hoar
Gentleman (Mr. D. W. Hater)), they worthd roil,
be letting in a new argument to be derived frim
their probable future choice, which !olio Mut
the whole intentions of the Lep-I:stunt. He mild
not refrain from urging the Howse to press this
measure. The eyes of the country were un them,
and the people expected consistency at then
hands, after the investigation had ignite too by fie
as it had done. 'rite boroughs enfold tret suffer
any new iscorivenience by the Bill, for it wool
be recollected,
sinceBm
Barnstaple had oily else Nee,.e and no new harthltip would he
imposed, as Parliament must nee-t for the dins
' parch of besiness early iii spring. The Ntalsle
Lord then quoted the Shaftesbury use, mail cow.
tended that it furnished a complete preeedeot for
the 13111 he now purposed. To disflairchise de.
ceyed boroughs where sack airs were iletret,4,
was the imperative duty of the legmlanire.—
Wherever these small decayed B“rostghd .roe
found, • few poor wretched indiyithisis would
be found ready to accept a bribe, anti some nth
speculator ready to offer it. With reapett to rue
sympathy for the gentlemen now in Kiwis., Ire
could not see how it could be extended to them,
and not to the poor persons who hod accepted the
bribes, and who were illiterate, aid soilionore.44
with the immorality of which they had hero 4vilty.
The practice of committing there offences was, he
feared, notorious enough. Mr. Sarum was out, lie
believed," _ . _