The Sun.
London, England, 1855-07-11 00:00:00

NEWSPAPERS.

In reply to a question put by Mr:BASS,
Mr. WILSON stated that if the Times, or any other
newspaper, was put into the post-office without being
stamped, or having the necessary postage stamp upon it,
such publications would be charged as ordinary printed
or written papers, according to their weight. With re-
spect to newspapers the stamp upon which had been
rubbed off, they would be treated in the same manner as
letters which bad the postage stamp rubbed off, and
would be charged the same as though no stamp had
been put on them. If a newspaper were stamped in the
ordinary manner, it would go through the post free of
charge, but if unstamped, it would be conveyed for a
penny stamp, provided it did not exceed in weight four
ounces.

THE CONDUCT OF LORD JOHN RUSSELL AT
VIENNA.

Mr. DISRAELI—I am anxious to put a question to
the noble lord the Secretary of State for the Colonies,
but as he is not present, I will put it to any of the mem-
bers of her Majesty's Government who may be able to
give an answer. The noble lord the other night, in the
observations which he made, informed the house of what
occurred in her Majesty's Council upon his return from
his mission at Vienna. What I wish to know is, whether
the noble lord had received her Majesty's gracious per-
mission to make that communication to the house ?
No reply was given to the question of the right hon.
member.

TENANTS' COMPENSATION BILL.
In answer to questions put by Mr. GROGAN,
Lord PALMERSTON stated that he would, if pos-
sible, bring on the Tenant's Compensation Bill after dis-
posing of the Scotch Education Bill, on Thursday next.
ADMINISTRATIVE REFORM.
Mr. V. SCULLY then moved that an humble address be
presented to her Majesty, thanking her Majesty for her most
gracious order in council of the 21st day of May last, by
which certain persons were directed to examine into and
certify the quulifications of all young men proposed to be
appointed to junior situations in any department of the
civil service ; and praying that her Majesty will be gra-
ciously pleased to direct the examination tobe an open one,
and held in public, and that the examiners do have regard
to superior qualifications and merit. In bringing forward
this motion his great object was to have the examination
conducted in public on the ground of its being more effec-
tive. The hon. member having called attention to the evils
which he conceived to be inseparable from the present mode
of examination for public offices, stated several instances
which had come under his own observation in which the
examination had not been conducted properly, owing,
as he conceived, to the absence of publicity in the
proceedings. All he proposed was, that the order in
council should be extended, and that the examinations
for introduction to the public service should be open
to all, and held, not in private, but in public.
He thought that the present system of nomination
should be abolished, and that the abstract resolution pro-
posed by the hon. baronet the member for Hertford, and
accepted by the house and the Government should be fairly
carried out—that merit should be tested, and rewards
secured to the deserving. The appointments obtained from
the Secretary of the Treasury by members of Parliament
had been often referred to, and he (Mr. V. Scully) would
give the hone the result of his experience as an applicant
for appointments for his constituents and friends. He had
obtained from the Secretary of the Treasury some five ap-
pointments of from 1001. to 1201. a-year, and he had recom-
mended young men of ability and character for these ap-
pointments. What were the facts of these cases ? In the
first, an examination was undergone, and the young
man was appointed to an office in the revenue, with
hard work and very little pay. In two others an ex-
amination was had, and, as he (Mr. V. Scully) thought,
the candidates wore improperly rejected. Theifourth
was rejected because ho could not produce his baptismal
register ; and the fifth was rejected, very properly, be-
cause he could not spell. (Laughter.) The resolution be
proposed to the house would make it imperative that the
first appointment should be given to the best answers, that
the examination should be open to all competitors, and
that the best of the competitors should receive the ap-
pointments. He limited his proposition to first appoint-
ments, leaving future promotion to be made according to
tho business habits and official fitness of the gentlemen in
the different branches of the service. He thought this
would be a step in advance, and would lead to other re-
forms. He could speak for hours on the subject if he
liked (laughter), but he would not further dilate on the
necessity of the resolution be submitted; but he was ready
to answer all objections that might be urged in' the course
of the debate. It might be said that patronage wee neces-
sary for the sake of hon. members, for the sake of the Go-
vernment, and for the sake of the public themselves. This
he denied, and as an Irish member of Parliament ho
could say that the value of the patronage would not pay
for the clerks which were necessary to keep up the
correspondence on those subjects. (Laughter.) But the
patronage was in the hands of the heads of departments
and they could not give it up to members of parliament.
With respect to the public, he could not imagine what
benefit they could derive from the exercise of patronage,
as it introduced a great number of inefficient individuals
to ,the service. He had that day told a sturdy energetic ap-
plicant for a Government appointment that he had better,
if he had a 10/. note to spare, to put it into a German lot-
tery than run the chance of obtaining a Government ap-
pointment through his (Mr. V. Scully's) means. Ho had a
letter which ho had just received from one person who had
been importuning him for two years, and who had written
him between 50 and 60 letters, which obliged him to write
50 or 60 replies. The Dean of Hereford gave a curious ex-
ample of the way in which constituents played with mem-
bers for places. A farmer applied to Isis clergyman to
know the best way to obtain a place for his son. The
clergyman told him to apply to his member—that mem-
ber who usually supported the Government. The far-
mer replied that he had had his eye to that at the
election, for he had split his votes, and given
one for the ministerial and the other for the anti-ministe-
rial candidate. (Laughter.) But seeking for places was a
waste of the time of hon. members, and a delusion upon
the public. He did not wish to derogate from the value
of the order in council, but he thought the principle should
be carried much further, and he hoped that the right hon.
member for Oxford would support the motion. It was
said that this alteration would require an act of Parlia-
ment, but ho did not think so, and he was Justified in that
opinion by many of the highest authorities. It might be
advisable to have an act of Parliament, but it was not ne-
cessary, as her Majesty in Council was frilly competent to
carry out the reforms he had sketched to the house.
Lord GODERICH seconded the motion. He could not
think that either the declaration made on the motion of the
hon. member for Aylesbury, or the amendment of the hon.
baronet the member for Hertford, which had been carried
at two o'clock in the morning amidst laughter, was suffi-
ciently binding on the Government, and under these cir-
cumstances he thought the hon. and learned member was
justified in moving the present resolution.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The hon.
and learned gentleman who brought this subject before the
house recommended it to our attention by stating that it is
a measure in furtherance of administrative reform. Her
Majesty's Government are as desirous of promoting admi-
reinistrative reform as either the hon. and learned member
himself or any other gentleman in this house. The question,
however, which we have now to consider is, what is admi-
nistrative reform ? Is the measure which the hon. and
learned gentleman has proposed a measure of administra-
ive reform? Now sir under the term "administrative
reform." I conceive there are two classes of measures. One
of m
thesedepacr
ltasseenstnconsists in an examination of all the exist-
ingwith respect to the classification of their
subjects, with
respect to the distribution of their labour,
and with respect to the number of persons employed, their
duties, qualifications,
the (Hear, ear. On a
former discussion I had honoury of stating tho
the) house
that a series of
investigations had been instituted
by a succession of Governments
—by the Government of
of L
my n
Lord Derby, and by successive Governments—into the
different departments of the State—that these investiga-
tions were conducted by competent inquirers—that reports
were made in consequence of these
ilestigations—and that
all the practical recommendations contained in these re-
reports have subsequently been carrpirvinto effect. The
best proof that either the present or us Governments
Give of their zeal in administrative reform was by
could
instituting detailed inquiries into the
rdifferentravceticaltdministra-
riecornmen-
tire departments, and by adopting all
dations that were made for their improvement. challenge
Bey hon. member of this house to show that exertions
and well sustained exertions—have not been made by sue
cessive Governments for ascertaining tbe defects in si-1-19
different departments, and for removing those defects and
increasing their efficiency. Without dwelling upon that
class of administrative reform, I shall now proceed to the
other class of measures to which the honourable and
learned member has adverted in his speech—namely, those
that consist in improving the general character of the civil
service. (Hear, hear.) I need not travel over again the
grounds that were so clearly explained to the house by my
right hon. friend
the member for the University of Oxford
on a former occasion, or refer to the steps that were taken,
resulting in the order of council of May last. (Hear,
hear.) That order in council was intended to improve the
existing state of the civil service, subject to the general
conditions by which it is now constituted. At present there
are separate examinations in the great majority of the de-
partments ; but they are examinations conducted under
the authority of the heads of the departments, and are
tot
cc'nducted according to a uniform and consistent
plan. The object of the order in council now before
the bowie
l these examinations under one
"racould
introduce system and regularity into
with the a
ales them independent of all influences con-
nectedfounded upon the existing of the civil service,
er.al.departments. That was a system
and it was intended
catiteon conditions
standard of quer In
•
• h for all new per-
essutmabeliiesnhtlybymigts Introduction a
sone introduced into th civil service, subject, however, to
the existing rules witherespect
to nomination and appoine
entered upon their duties ; anvde. been appointed, and have
member who introduced thiee me' even the hon. and learned
the right direction, and that te°tl°: admits it is a step in
the views he has formed with reea certain extent it fulfils
form. But he says it is an unserfeeti°
rad ministrat i ye FC°
aTidthat it goes to a
measure—that it does not go far Y and inefficient
certain extent in the right direction,enoug
short of
the gaol he would attain—that it does not settvops
ficient length in the way of reform, and that inee anensui,f-
bent upon this house, by an address to the jroisve:
set in motion the prerogative to repeal the —to-
order and substitute another order founded To,. existing
different principle. The following aro the three%oin a
in which the system which he recommends diffetr'is
from that which is now iptioduced. Ili proposes Ulla
the examination should be public, and conducted in
rooms to which the public at large should be adulated ;
and he further proposes that any person may offer himself
as a candidate for examination without being subject—as
I understand him—to any qualification whatever. (No.)
According to the hon. and learned gentleman's plan, it
would be like the election of members of Parliament, sup-
posing all qualifications were abolished, or, as my right
hon. friend near me suggests, like the election of a Scotch
member. (No, no.)

Mr. V. No. So fax from proposing that

candidates should have no qualification, I propose that the
best qualified candidates should be electe,d. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Accord-
ing to the hon. and learned gentleman's plan, a person
might without qualification propose himself as a candidate,
leaving the qualification to be subsequently ascertained,
but no preliminary qualification is necessary to con-
stitute him a candidate. The second point is that every
person should be admitted to become a candidate for ad-
mission to the civil service; and, last of all, after the ex-
amination had taken place, the object should be, not to
ascertain whether the candidates came up to a certain
standard, and satisfied certain prescribed qualifications
laid down beforehand, but to ascertain which was the best
out of a given number of persons. (Hear.) That is to say,
that the examination should be strictly competitive, and
be a race between a certain number of competing candi-
dates. The necessary effect of the adoption of the plan
would be that all these civil servants—a thousand in num-
ber—being servants of the Crown, acting in the employ-
ment of departments and under the control of persons hold-
ing offices from the Crown, should be appointed without
any reference to the power of the Crown, or to the persons
appointed by the Crown, on their own proposal of them-
selves as candidates, and by the choice of a body of exa-
miners, to be appointed, I presume, in the ordinary man-
ner by the Crown. A certificate from the Board of Exa-
miners would constitute them members of the civil ser-
vice, and, as I collect from the motion of the honourable
and learned member, it would be incumbent on
the Crown, or on the representative of the Crown, to re-
cognise that certificate as the title of admission to the civil
service, there being no veto on the part of the Crown to
the appointment of any person who had received the cer-
tificate from the Board of Examiners. I have troubled
the house with this explanation in order that we might be
certain that we fully understood the proposition of the
hon. and learned member, and I will now, with the per-
mission of the house, examine the different points of the
proposal. In the first place, there is a question of pub-
licity, Now, the examinations are conducted at present
principally, or, I believe, exclusively, in writing. Certain
questions are proposed to the candidates to answer. Those
questions are in writing. They are given a paper to copy
or a letter to write, to ascertain their efficiency in writ-
ing. Similar questions are put with reference to arith-
metic, and I believe the whole of the examination is
conducted in writing, and no part of it by oral ques-
tion or answer. (Hear, hear.) I need scarcely remark
that the admission of the public would be wholly
nugatory. There would be no advantage in seeing a number
of gentlemen sitting round a table copying answers to
questions put to them. I presume that the hon. and learned
gentleman wishes that the mode of examination should be
altered, and that oral examination should be substituted.
I am not sufficiently acquainted with the details of these
examinations to offer any opinion as to the advantage of
oral examination in comparison with written examination,
but I have no reason to suppose that the practice that has
now been followed up for several years in the different de-
partments has been the result of accident ; I believe it has
been the result of experience, and that it has been found to
be the most convenient and efficient mode of conducting
these examinations. I therefore doubt that we would
confer a benefit on the public by substituting oral for
written examination, for the purpose of attaining what
the hon. and learned gentleman calls publicity of exa-
mination. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and learned mem-
ber stated that in all the university examinations the
public was admitted, and an opportunity was afforded of
judging of the manner in which those examinations are
conducted ; but my experience leads me to believe that a
very large number of university examinations are not con-
ducted orally, but exclusively in writing. I believe that
in Cambridge all university examinations are conducted by
written questions and written answers, and therefore I do
not know how the public or any member of the university
not concerned in the examination are admitted, but if so, I
must think their presence is totally unimportant. I must
say as regards the examinations at Oxford—at which I had
the honour of being present as an examiner—that the exa-
minations are in writing, and that no member of the uni-
versity is permitted to be present. lamat a loss to con-
ceive what advantage would be derived from publicity,
nor did I ever hear it said that the smallest inconvenience
arose from the exclusion of the public. The public would be
an annoyance to the persons writing; their attention would
be distracted—nervous persons would say they had not a
fair chance—that they were disturbed by the intrusion of
strangers ; and I really conceive that with reference to the
interests of candidates themselves, as well as of the public,
the adoption of the principle of publicity is altogether objec-
tionable. (Hoar.) But perhaps, after all, the publicity of
the examination is not the most important part of the
question. The really important pas tof the proposition is
the permission to all persons to constitute themselves can-
didates, and render the examination a competitive exami-
nation. The first objection that must occur to everybody
who considers the proposal is, that if you introduce the
principle of competitive examination, and if you allow an
unlimited number of candidates, and impose upon a body
of examiners the duty, and confer upon them the power of
selecting the persons they may consider the best—that is to
say, the fittest—for the offices that are vacant, you entirely
get rid of the principle of personal responsibility in the
coice of persons for the civil service. At present every
person appointed to a public office is appointed upon
the responsibility of somebody ; but under the system
proposed by the honourable and learned member
no responsible appointment would be made, and
I presume he will not go the length of saying that his
system would work with infallible regularity. The board
of examiners will propose certain questions in arithmetic,
English history, or any other subject which the candidate
chooses, and after reading over the answers will, without
knowing their names, make a decision in favour of those
who have the greatest number of marks. (Hear.) By that
system, however, as I have already said, all personal re-
sponsibility is lost, and that is one great objection to the
plan of the hon. and learned gentleman. But there is an-
other objection, and it is this, that though by this system
you may to a considerable extent get a person of intellec-
tual qualities, you have no means of ascertaining his
moral qualities. What you want iota public officer is often,
not a man of ambitions, eager disposition, who seeks to
advance himself rapidly in the world, but a man who is
trustworthy, industrious, and attentive, and who will per-
form the duties assigned to him by his superiors in office.
How can we obtain these qualities by a merely literary
examination ? It is clear that no examination of that sort
can have the effect which it is desirable to obtain. (Hear.)
The class of persons who would in all probability succeed
in the greatest number of cases would be schoolmasters and
ushers of schools, and persons employed in the practical
business of education. You must expect to see persons of
this class to a great extent, without much reference to
their moral character or previews conduct in the world, ob-
taining employment in the civil service. I hope I shall
not be understood to cast the smallest reflection upon that
most respectable and useful class of the community, whose
employment I honour as much as any member of this
house, but I would suggest for the consideration of the
house whether, an establishing a general system for the
introduction of candidates into the civil service, it would
be advisable to give an advantage to that class of the
community beyond other persons. Besides the chi.ss of
superior officers, there were others in the revenue depart-
ment whose occupation could scarcely bear the name of
intellectual, and what means were to bo taken by which
the appointment of persons of that class—boatmen, tide-
waiters, weighers of customs, post-office messengers—could
be made to depend upon a literary examination. I admit
it is right that we should have a standard examination for
officers of every class—no person would be more disposed
to enforce a rigid test than myself, but I must express my
doubt whether we should derive any advantage from a
competitive examination among persons of that descrip-
tion, and if the competitive system is unsuited to the tide-
waiters and post-office messengers, can you apply it to a
higher class ? (Hoar.) But if you adopt the proposition of
the hon. and learned member, will you stop there? Will
you not apply the same test to persons holding higher and
more important situations ? Will you undertake to ap-
point a permanent Under-Secretary of State, or perma-
nent Secretary of the Treasury, or county court judge, or
commissioner of bankruptcy, or legal officers of different
descriptions, or judges in the superior courts, by competi-
tive examination ? (Heir.) I ask is any member of this
house willing to trust all the great appointments in this
country to competitive literary examination ? [(Hear,
hear.) If the honourable member establishes what he
seeks by an address to the Crown, he must carry out the
principle and apply it to the whole civil service of the
country. (Hear.) On examining this question of com-
petitive examination it is natural we should look back to
the general experience of mankind ; and if we look back
to history, we do not find that any country hitherto, what.
ever its form of Government, ever selected its civil ser-
vants by competitive examinations. Let us look to the
great republic of antiquity, I mean the Roman, and I ask
you, did the Romans ever think of appointing their con-
suls, or probers, or any of the great officers, by competi.
tive examination. (Hear.) Did Italy, under its various
forms of Government, whether republic or sovereign, do
so ? Did the Spanish Government do so, when its domi-
nien extended over the Indies, and through every part of
the world ? Did England, France, or America do so ?
(Hear, hear.) None of them have over resorted to the
principle of competitive examination in making appoint-
ments to civil service. Do we find that joint-stock
companies, railway companies, or that great corpora-
tion the dock company, or the numerous bodies or-
ganised by different commercial and mercantile parties
under special acts of Parliament, in different parts of the
kingdom, in appointing, their civil servants, resort to the
plan of competitive examination ? I think the hon. gentle-
man will see that these enlightened bodies are guided by no-
thing but a consideration of their own interest and the in-
terest of their shareholders in appointing their secretaries,
or managers,
or the other persons whom they employ. Do
they not all require to get a good character of the person
they appoint, and do they not select the person they think
goodte they stopw iwith
there?respect
the fittest, precisely in the same manner in which public
servants are selected by the State ? But if this principle is
clerkshipin th civil
Why
htyhe should
thothey servants
of the Crown, could
allow a person to come
forward as candidate
for thee
guardians, or teofac
1 by competitive examination for a
tome-office, and debar him from being a can-
didatewhich this count eof clerk to magistrates or to boards of
the motion asked9rivahy?unds?
fill Ty of those numerous local offices with
to India should not be adopted The noble lord who seconded
service of the Crown. principle adopted with respect
with respect to the general
will state the reasons which ap-
pear to me to constitute
case of India and the civil as
great difference between the
vice of this country. Every-
body knows the great embar'r'assment which the Indian
patronage has created in the Governmentai.t of this country.
At the end of the last century,
by vehiceZMr. Pitt overthrew
a great struggle in
this house, it was the engine
the coalition Government of Mee yo
country being alarmedlest Governs:o%74ot
Lord North, the
uld Nor
h,
,attoteceirepattienorrght gaining
possession by the enormous bribe of the Indian
pfiniessnesssuipopnoosfedthtehaint
dMiarn.
pFaotxr o nwaagse
his party a power independent of the Cro It was
wn on the one
hand, and the country on the other. It is my firm co
tion that those charges were greatly exaggerated, anclatv,ihact.
the public laboured under an entire delusion as to the object
in view, but the representations made to this effect were
believed, and were the main cause of the overthrow of the
Coalition Government, and the triumphant accession of
Mr. Pitt to power. That is an example of the great dia.
• which the eminent men of that dayfound in the prac-
culties
lution of Indian politics, and the influence they exer-
cisedticalso
h ie of this country. There was always a jealousy
on t o.
of Indian patronage, and by the mea-
sureas to the distribution
the Indian
house, on the renewal of lndian
laid before the
make appointments dependent
charter, it was proposed to mf:olei
ethaepleir purpose of taking them
on competitive examination, . l p
anomalous
body an anomalous
out of the hands of tho East India Company,..
)0 to, on the one
1,'13:, exercising sort of imperitbit in vni
—anqP and thea Government on the other. It appears to me
that this is fair solution
of the difficult problem in ques-
tion ;but
.9. fair solution
that when civil servants
it must be remembered
are appointed to • s they do not at once suc-
ceed to lndian situation . .
l functions Politicalcom-
power, and their politica
ee
inence na the t• ' selected by the ,e-
-vernment for time when they are
f some public duties.
Therefore, eve.tabe performance o
new Indian bill, ver the system established by the
*s-
ctetion exercised b the is an act of selection and di
e Indian Government in appointing