The National Register.
London, England, 1816-03-17 00:00:00

ARMY ESTIMATES.

The House then went into a Committee of Supply on the
Army Estimates.
Lord PALM ERsTom moved his first Resolution, that 385,2751.
9s. MI. he grunted for di fraying the expense of the household
troops till December, 1816.
Mr. CALCH AVIr opposed the resolution, and contended that
the reduction of these troop.: to the number they stood at in
1791, was not all unreasonable proposition. In peace they
were only useful for parade ditties. He should therefore IPUVC
to reduce them one half, which would least them stronger that&
in 1791.

Lord CAcTLEREAGII apprehended that Ce House had already
voted the number of the troops to be kept up. Rut it' this mo-
tion were entertained, it would be reducing the troops of the
line. One fourth of the guards were to be stationed in France.
The Noble Lord proceeded to contend, that the proposed mea-
sure of the Hun. Member was not a measure of economy. It
bad been determined by the House, that a evil tin tin ce was
necessary ; and the army, as it at present stood, was by no
means complete. Wunid it then be economy to discharge •tooo
men of the guards, who had cost the country from 5.4. to lOW,
each, amid were the best troops in the army ; and farther, to
chat ge the country with pensions to the men thus dischau wed ;
and still further, to put the country to the expellee of raising
and training •1000 peasants at a very considerabie enema-a., and
thus to obtain green soldiers for veteran troops, only to sits e an
assumed difference between guards and line? 'I he home ser-
♦ice required a much larger force now than it did in 1;93. At
this time Chatham alone would require 1000 men to do the duty
on the lines and fortifications. The Noble Lord also contended,
that to attempt to reduce the household troops, who acre all
completely accontred and mounted, and to sell their horses at,
perhaps, half their 1‘ orth,and then to have other troops to raise,
*amid be a measure of false economy bked.
I Mr. CALC•R Ayr repeated his arguments in favour of his pre-
' position, and contended, that it' the Noble Lord's system were
adopted, it would pm against any reduction a hatever.
Mr. C. WN nNE supported the amendment. The support of
the household troops cost more by 35,0001. than the same num-
ber of troops ol• the line would do.
Mr. Hanuniesst commented upon the introducing of no‘ll
names for the national force, bermowiag espiessioos from the
French. He WAS at a loss to know ohs these troops were now
to be called houscholl troops instm ad of guards. He also wish-
ed to know what change had taken place in the metropolis
since In 2 which rendered nearly double tho number of troops
necessary to preserve the peace which Mr. Pitt felt to be ne-
cessary ; at that period, Mr. I'itt was content whit proposing
4000 men, whilst now we were to have 7600. He (tlr. It.)
aas team fol it sits not for the rcsevvaliou of the pm ace that
this force was to be kept up, but for the purpose of military
pomp amid parade, to insult time fi•elings of the people, and to
increase the twat refine and influence of the crown.

Mr. C. W,:c..r.E was in favour of the anwildineitt.

Gen. LotT contended that it would be unjust towards the
guards, and to the public, to diminish this force, which by its
services on the Continent, in Egypt, and at NV:lttlino, hail
proved itself one of the niost gallant corps in the aunty. No
greater her was proposed to be kept up than was noses-
sary.or than the service pet titriated by them It Sets e4l.
Mr. BItIIUGIIAM contended, that the service* of the guarth,,
which he had never dispuraged, was no reason foe keeping Hp
a larger force than was neees•ary. The Victor, Lord Nel-
son's ship, had performed most spit whit sersiees-- at the battle
of the Nile, of Trafalgar, Kati ut several other places, She
bore that immortal hero through great 'Art of his splendid
career, and up to the time of his glorious fall, yet the Victory
was laid tip in nrdinar), and her crew turned adrift.
Lot d CssrrreeAGll denied that the keeping up this force
wowil inelo:l,t• the influence of the crown.

.I.II,IiNEN %/IS nut yet eons inceiiof the necessity of
keeping op this large force of Household Tri‘ops. routd
hI ill' .:,id 111;:i the Illf.ll'
cicastd uuulbrf, tailias it couftat.;i tiagt We itigu of IMP

vitnar vr.

grezeet was 'Korot from the reign of Gem,* -(
near. )—He was Most ready to aliow the splendid services 01.
the guards wherever tiny hail been engaged, but they had
sprung from 3000. Reduce them to 3000 again; and he had
soi doubt whenever they were again wanted they would he
found to rise, and their services wen,el attain he us splendid ~,
they bad been. But the Noble Lord WWI 11111/0/440111'
to reduce these troops, because the burthen in pens;ons %timid
be greater thin the expellee of keeping them up. This was
sit most singular mode of proceeding, that putting dowel our
establishment would he more expensive than keeping it up.- -
(lbrtr. Anse.) Then the Noble Lord said, what 511411 we do
with the fine horses belonging, to the guards? They were, in-
deed, fine horses; but surely they would sell for something.
The Noble Lord said, it Sias impossible to do without these
lionschold troops for the service of the metropolis. No doubt,
if 10,000 of these troops wire voted, they would be disposed
The hank guard might he doubled, so might the soldiers at-
tending on the theatres, the °penthouse, the routs of tlr^ no-
bility, and other places of ninusement, where the inliitary now
supplied the place of the cisil power; and he (Mr. Tierney )
did not mean to say they did not conduct themselves properly.
These troops, the favourite troops of the Prince Regent, which
lined both sides of the park and the streets whenever his
Rural Highness went abroad; and who, if the inclinations of
those who so melt admired them were complied with, he I Mr.
'l'.) believed would also line the walls of that House, must not
be diminished in number.- - r Hear, Acur.)—Others, besides the
Noble Lord and the Regent, admired these troops. The Com-
mander in Chief also adini..ed them. He (Mr. T.) had the
highest. respect for his Royal Highness, and nu man could be
more ready than he was to acknowledge the claims which that
illustrious person had on the gratitude of the country for the
services he had rendered the public in his situation of Com-
mander in Chief; yet no man was free from prejudice; and
it Was not at all surprisi:ig that his Royal Highness, who had
pie.sed his life in the midst of military men, and in military
pursuits, should be partial to the military. Mr. Tierney said,
be could not but consider this as a great constitutional ques-
tion, as well as one of economy, and he trusted the House
mould treat it as such.
Mr. N'sxstrrattr contended that the number of troops pro.
posed to be kept up was nut more numerous than necessary,
and urged the impolicy of discharging this excellent and vete-
ran rorce, anti entailing an expellee un the country to raise
alother force very inferior in its nature.
The House then divided—For reducing the Household
Troops and the Guards one half, left—against it, 210 —Ma-
joriiy Sg.
Lord Patstsurros moved that 3330;921. be voted for the
service of the Cavalry and Waggon Train of Great Britain for
the year ISI6. _ . .

Alr. TIERNEY moved that the Chairman should report pro-
gress, and ask leave to sit again.
The House divided--For the Resolution, 12i against it, 62
p—Majmity, 6t. The Re4olution was then agreed to.
The Chairman then reported proeress, and asked leave to
agmu.—Adjourned at half-past One o'clock.