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London, England, 1818-05-19 00:00:00

mis.ioners sloacided with more restrictions. The
House would do well to give them as unfettered
inquiaitorial powers as itself possessed. He would
nom soy one word shout the six Commissioners—
' and as they were to receive their appoisitinent from
'the Crown, he implored Gentlemen opposite to re.
tiled that every thing would depend on their per.
lie had intended they should
lx named the Bill, but having given way to the
other arriassgentent, he trusted that every thong like
party him Of jobbing would he avoided. Smug of
the Commissioners were to have no salary. He had
beard the names of some Gentlemen mentioned
for the office, for whom he entertained the highest
respect ; but as there was nothing to he looked to
by one of 'the description lie had alluded to. but
loebsonr uurewinled—as no other motive whatever
could he imputed to I , than a devise that what
be hsd commenced should he followed up effec.
totally, he would 'sow express to Gentlemen oppo-
site his willingness to undertake the part of one of
the Commiseioners. He had consulted the Commit.
tee, and received Their sanction for what he proposed.
It utight be objected to him. that. as a Member
of this House. be was ineltigible to fill such an
*See. But, he would sacrifice every private con.
lideration, to achieve whet he conceived to be-s.
*mid what the Howse mum feel to be—a most im.
portant good.—(Near. *tar.)-.Ho believed this
Bill would not meet with say interested opponeuts
in Perliaineeit...-for he believed they had iminogst
them none of the wrong doers against whom it was
directed. Of this he was sore. that it would have
the support of the head's of the church established
in this country—which might be denominated the
staff of the poor...and awes duty it peculiarly
was to watch OVIIr the 'arrests of the unfortunate.' '
The House thou resolved itself moo the Core.
Mittre—tke Bill went through it, tore-siketio--tht
1-Loose reauined, and the Report was ordered to be
received to-morrow.

..magic RESTRICTION SILL.
on the metiou of the CHANCELLOR of the
Excueoume. the Report of the Bank Restriction
Bull was oaken into further coosideratioo.
Mr. F. Lewis said, that. in mewing this Bill,
some preparation ought to be evade by the Bank,
to resume, at its expiratioe, cash payineista. If
this wire not duce, he conceived that the present
measure would go to render the restriction inter-
tnissable. Hr should, therefore, propose • clause,
which, if the House agreed to it, would pave the
way for the resusnptiou of cash payments, in the
course of the next Session. He felt that his powers
were not calculated to produce that effect ou the
House—(,here was. at this thee, a eossiderable ;wise)
—which else importance of this subject denianded—
hut hr rose in the hope that his observations would
call up individuals of greater talent than he pro-
d. It was his wish, that a Bill, considerably
different from that now before the House, should be
Passed. lie was anxious that the Bank should, by
s' legislative provision, be called on to limit their
issue of notes. Fur this purpose, he should move
an Amendment to the preamble of the Bill, speci-
fically binding them to do so. Two years ago,
such a proposition was made and negatived. But
the arguments which were then opposed to it,
did not apply to present circumstances. Se-
vend reasons 'load formerly been urged against
mirth a provision. The supporting an army in
France was oue. But that army was now al-
most entirely maintained by Frauce—and, there-
fore, the argument failed. Again, the unfavour-
able state of the exchange was stated as a rea-
son for continuing the restriction—but was this a
fair argument, when it was known that • loan was
to be raised for France, and when it was perfectly
understood, that • part of that loan would be con.
?meted for iu England ? The effect, on • parity
of reasoning, must be, as specie most be sent from
this country to create • favourable, not an unfa-
vourable state of the exchange. If the circum-
stance of a loan being made fur France were used
us a reason fur abandoning cash payments for the
moment, it might have some weight; but he de.
Died, at all events, that it was • good one for coati-
lining such a measure for any considerable length
of tissue. Let the House look to France itself.
Under all misfortunes, she had adhered to a metallic
circulation—lnd the price of the precious metals
remained almost unchanged. Let Parliament reverse
the picture. Notwithstanding the flourishing state,
s it was termed, of this country, an circumstances,
k was said, appeared, to authorise the resumption
Id cash paymeats. What then was the iafrrince f It
Was clearly this—that gross mismanagement must
laid somewhere. This country had drawn from
France and from other nations larger trantilies of
gold and silver than had been received m any other
laart of the world. Yet that abduction had not
compelled those countries, from which the resource
was drawn. to resort to a paper circulation—mud,
by a parity of mooning. it was evident, that the
seeding out of this country a quantity of the pre.
ciao metal., ought not to lead to the result, that
nosh payments shoold be wholly abandoned. Other
tenses than those stated must be looked to as the
reason for the non-resumption of cash
_payments,

and other remedies oast is resorted to, fiir the cor-
section of the evil--inneedira very different indeed
from those hitherto proposed. the Honourable
Gentleman then catered into a review of the cira
cunistances which unleaded the great issue of codn-
try hank notes. A vast quantity of paper of that
description had got into circulation. Many of
those conntry houses had foiled—and the conse-
quent* was, that an additional supply of Bank of
England paper was called for. When he said this.
he meant not to deny that the country banks had
done much service; but it was most evident, that,
by their multiplicity. they had spread ove► the
country a greater portion of Bank of England
notes, than, under other circumstances. would have
been disseminated. The number of country banks
bad, undoubtedly, produced costly good effects.—
They had occasioned the transaction of business on
more moderate terms then it otherwise would have
been performed. and it had also rendered it ovees•
nary that the issue of each individual should. iu •
considerable proportion, be contracted. Still. how-
ever, they had facilitated the paper system. Bat,
to revert to the general principle. It was most evi-
dent that the great increase of paper mosey had
tended to mire the prices of every article, even to
&utile them. Whet was the consequence ? Why
the caprioles of the war were doubled, and thus it
was, that, in a time of peace. they were borne down
by the weight of an immense %oration. The longer

they suffered this system to exist, the greater did
the evil become. It must be found at one lime or
other necessary to face it—and the preerist hour lie
considered so be a proper one to meet and check
the evil. There could, he was convinced, be no
interruption to trade by the removal of the Restric-
tion Act. He would ask. had not the rash specula-
tions, so remarkable of hole years, mainly arisen out
of the rise of prices, which a depreciation iii the
currency caused. and the facility of borrowing mo-
ney that existed This led to substitute rails spe-
culation for • prudent trade on fair and solid capi-
tal. It wars the leases from such a system of trade
that bred discontent throughout the country as
much as any other cause. He admitted that they
ought not unnecessarily to interfere with the Bank ;
but surely this very Bill was • lamentable interfe-
rence with the Beek. and it was to get rid of this
interfirrenceigr he meant to propose • declaratory
PresnOSle• Member for Surrey (Mr. S. Thorn.
ton) complained of the House calling so often
fur Bank accounts. This was imperative, so
long es the Restriction Act continued ; let the
House reason that. and he would be content
never to all on the Bank for any pipers.—
aleerj—lf the House did not at this moment in-
terfere. they would leave a system in existence
'which had • teudeucy to alter the value of the whole ,
property in the country. The propmition with
which he meant to conclude, bound the Batik to
nothing in particular, except to recognise the Ilea
cessity of • dimit • n of their issues. They ought
to begin with a large reduction of their IL notes.
as those more directly interfered with • metallic
currency. This would have the best effect, both
is restoring matters to a proper state. sssd also on a
subject of the highest importance—he meout the
facility for committing the crime of forgery, which
grew with the issue of these sin notes.—(Hear./
—Six trials for forgery only took place before 1797
—6OO was the number sauce.—(blear, heat: j
On the subj. et of seiginurage. 311 he shoull say was,
that it would fall on the last hulde 'file geste.al
effect of continuing the present system ,p 1 currency
must be most injurious, both externally as well as
internally--it must 'hew other state, that this coun.
try was itretritrably entangled its nuncio! difficul-
ties. There was, In the present moment of !peace,
an opportunity, by courageously facing the esils iu
our filmgoer system. to remove this impression with
far leis danger than it could be effected in a time
of war, when the apparently helpless state of the
country might invite an attack which, Flom the pre-
sestepacitic state of Europe, there could be no
reason to expect. It was in vain to hope that the
next year would be more favourable than this for
entering upon the subject, and it was for these con-
siderations that he was auxins, to coil upon the
liott.e to adopt the amendment with which he
useaut to conclude. The Hon. Genticmasi then
monied that the words " unforeseen circum-
stances" should he omitted in the preamble of this
Bill, and that after the word " whereas" these
words be inserted—" it is expedient that the re-
striction be further continued, fur the purpoce of
enabling the Book to provtor the re.utninion
of cash payments, by such a gradual reduction in
the issue of their sandier note., as would enable
them, with as little delay as 'possible, to revert to
payments in specie."
Mr. Cinema was ready to concur in the gene-
ral principles !Aid down in the speech of his Hon.
Friend, though he could not agree with the
amendment which he proposed. Osi this subject,
though lie was not favourable to any thing like au
artificial currency, yet he entertained all Isis fin--
11W opinions on the impropriety of any parboil:len-
tary interference with the practical details of the
concerns of the Batik. He was us anxious as any
man. and years had elapsed sitice he had expressed
that opinion. to recal the attention of the House
and the country to the true p iple of a metallic
currency—Wear. {afar)—but when lie avowed this
opinion, he was fully impressed with the conviction
that the only proper interference which Parliament
ought to make. was to fix the period when the Batik
should resume cash 'serpents, and leave that Cor-
poration solely to its own plan and resources for a
compliance with the mandate of Parliament. He
also thought, that, as the question now stood, it
was no part of the business of the House to in•
quire into the fact, whether or not the B.uik had
taken the precaution to secure its its coffers adv.
quote funds to meet coals payments, at the period
already prescribed by law—that, he conceived.
ought to form no part of their consideration ; and
he objected to the amended preamble, because it
assumed that which was denied--an incapacity on
the part of the Bank to resume its payments in
specie. His own opinion was, that the existing
state of the currency. connected with the foreign
lois* created that temporary necessity which now
operated to prevent a resumption of cash psyments.
When the unexampled luau negociated in France
was urged as the reason why it would be impolitic
to allow the Bank at this time to pay their notes in
specie, it had been with an air of triumph asked,
how it happened that France. after all her loons,
maintained o metallic currency ? The isomer to
this question was obvious, because the capital of
other countries had been poured auto France, to
enable her to fulfil her payments. If Parliatneot
now interfere in the manner that some Gentlemen
recommended, he thought it would incur a fearful
respomibility, by interposing its authority in the
arrangement of those tletails which the Bank
itself was much more competent to massage and
ripen into practical operation. They had, for a se-
ries of years, shewii themselves competent to the
management of their own affairs—said he saw no
reason why now. at the conclusion, this superin-
tendence should be interfered with. except so far as
to limit the continuance of the Restriction Act.—
It may be said, that the same reason which this
year caused a continuance of the measure, may
!gain recur next year.—(Hear. hear, Ater.)—
No man, of course, could dive into futurity, and
decide by anticipation on the policy of a compli-
cated question, but he saw no mums whatever for
supposing that it was likely any future necessity
would arise for continuing the present system ; at
the same time he was ready to express his full con-
carrion with those who urged on the commercial
world the imperative ueceasity of discontinuing any
idea that the Restriction Act would continue, or
that they could look with a steady and permanent
eye on any arrangement short of the resumption of
a metallic currency. He concluded by repeating,
that he supported the coutiosauce of the &skies

lion Act, merely nn the ground of its temporal nee
cessity in the present state of the country.
Mr. J. I'. GRANT observed, that the Right
Flout. Gentleman had justified this measure on the
necessity set forth in the original preamble, and
had opposed the, amendineist, on the ground that
it would recognize an undue interference in the de-
tail+ of the Bank concerns. But he had not ven-
tured to answer that part of his Him. Friend's
speech. which asserted that the Statute Book did
out contain such a preamble as this. " that unfor-
seen circumstances" justified the measure—he had
simply confined himself to stating, that the ground
of the contiumnice of the Restriction Act was the
loan in France. Why not at once. if the Govern-
ment were confident in this opinion, set forth whut
they thought the true reason in the preamble of the
B 111? The people of England ought at Irma to
have this recorded reason on the face of the re-
cord. The Right Honourable Gentleman, in-
deed, thought that the Bank had gold enough
in its coffers ; but this was not enough, for if
their issues remained unlimited, ss they now stood,
their paper must suffer that eventual depreciation
which would render it impossible for them to resume
cash payments with the facility by some supposed.
This 1w knew was chiefly owing to the accommoda-
tion afforded by the Bauk to Government.— ( lieur
As to a foreign loan, lie was at a loss, after the fullest
consideration, to undeidand bow far a French loan
could have a tendency to slier the whole metallic
circulation of this country—(Heart—because the
very consequence of this remittance of specie must
increase the price of the commodity iis this country
in the suiue proportion that it became depreci-
ated in France, from the surplus in the market
( Hear.)—lt must, therefore. find a fair level, just
as the sates of exchange did in mercontile exports
and imports. Ls the year 1797, let the House recol-
lect, that there were wily 150.000 L in specie sent
out of the country in the Austrian and Prussian
subsidies—the rest was transmitted in bills of ex-
change, excrot a small quantify of dollars. Now in
the presesst loan, surely nobody believed that the
whole had leen contracted for in England. When he
recollected that the advances to Guveroment led to
else Batik stoppage in 1797, and wheal he saw that
the Cliencellor of the Exchequer fomided his sys-
tem of fittruce out further advances from the Batik
on Exchequer hills in the prriornt year, he could
out help thinking that the cause still continued,
as d would continue to operate to prevent the re-
surni.tion of cash payments, just so long as this
system between the Bank rod the Government was
suffered to continue in full and active operation.
This had led to the original stoppage, and it now
continued it. So convinced was he of the necessity
of bringing this matter to a decisive issue with the
Bank, and fixing inane definite period for replacing
the metallic currency of the country 011 the footing
upon which it formerly stood. that he would now
conclude by giving notice of his intention on a
future stage of the Bill, to move that the Reetric-
lion do continue sin longer than six weeks alter the
next meeting of Psrliament.—(llear.)
Mr. C. GRANTOR. hoped the House would ex-
cuse him while he repeated some of the reasons
which lie had formerly urged in support of the
continuance of this Bill. The Hon. Gentleman
then proceeded to contend that the opponents of
the measure left out of their cslculation the con-
sequence of an immediate resumption of cash pay-
ments, mad merely argued oil the general and uut-
drui. life
advantage to the country. of having a me-
tallic currency. He referred those who wished to
look at the real state of the question, to Mr.
Thortitotes admirable book. mid to the Report of
the Bullion Cot 1111 l ittee. The Hon. Member con-
cluded by stating, that he should 'hot have given
this Bull his support, provided it had been intended
to be a coutinuous measure :—as a teinpoeury expe-
dient, fur the purposes of general policy, it should
haye his most decided support.
Mr. GURNEY took • general review of the prin-
ciples and axe which had been laid down, from
the time of Mr. Locke, and other celebrated wri-
ters of the earlier ages upon this subject. He con-
tended, that the consequence of the present exist-
ing description of par, as attempted to be susteisted
by the Flounce Minister of the prevent day, must
be destructive to the best interests of the public.
whatever might .be its beneficial influelice on the
public funds, as far as respected the views of the
Ministry. lie should, therefore, support the
amendment for limiting the restriction to a time
to be limited.
Mr. Bseges was desirous to hear, from official
authority, the precise time when it was determined
we should have it paper currency convertible into
the precious inetals.—(Hear.)—lt was most desir-
able to have some assurance Irons the Right Hon.
Gentleman upon this subject, in the present state
of things, lest other restrictions should be proposed
upon cash payments, by the Bank, from time
to time, whilst the necessity for their resumption
increased prom day to day. He should be most
happy to find the resumption fixed fur July, 1819;
and if such should mint appear expedient to the
Right Hun. Gentleman, he hoped he would have
no objection to move early in the next Session for
a Committee to inquire into the state of our Liaise
clad relations.

Mr. GURNEY explained.
A division then took place, when there appeared
for the motion of the CHANcELLoa of the Ex-
CHEQUER
Ayes
Atom
Majority

On our re-admission S. the gallery—
Mr. J. P. GRANT moved, as •n amendment,
that emits payments be resumed six weeks after the
next meeting of Parliament.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCBEQUER observed,
that the present Seseion being so far advanced, and
it being altogether unlikely that any thing could
be done of material utility in the discussion of so
intricate a question as the Batik Restriction, in the
first weeks of a new Parliament. it was, therefore,
altogether unadvisable any particular dad• should
be now named for such resumption, except it went
much further in the Session. Upon these considera-
tions he should touch sooner prefer naming the
month of July, 1819, as least likely to be attended
with inconvenience.

Mr. TIORNET reprobated, in strong terms, the
procrastination which had, for two years last past,
characte►issd the conduct of the Right Honourable

,

Grunt:ism upon 1b.,: stiltje.ct. tie hoped that
Right Honnutalde Gentleman did not adopt tile
same prejudice as the Honourable Member under
the gallery, that a paper currency, convertible at
al limas into specie, was an abominable heresy.
—(4 tarr,O.)—ltt order to prove that Right
Gentleman's sentiments upon the subject, he should
move tli.it cash payintoos he resumed upon the
25th of March next, *Melt embraced, he hoped,
a sufficiently long period to obviate all objection as
to the shortness of time allotted.
Mr..l. P. GRANT withdrew his amendment, for
the purpose of giving way to that of his Right lion.
Friend tMr. Tierney), as lie imagined that amend-
ment had met with the general approbation of the
House.—('• No, no," Prune the Yreasury Benches.)
Mr. C. GRANT begged the House to consider
the probahle effect the French loans might liaie
upon the money market in rendering it inexpedient
on the part of this country• to resume cash payments
generally.
Mr. J. P. GRANT wished to hear from authority
whether the operation of the French loam, was nut
likely to cease prior to the sth of July, 18 19 ?
The House again divided on Mr. TIERNEY'S
amendment, when there appeared fur it—

Ayes
Noes BB

31fijority against the aniumbncot el
After a observations bons Sir Joins NEW.
PORT, the It port was agreed io. and the Bill or-
dered to be read the third time to-morrow.

WAYS AND MEANS.-LOTTERY.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER the House resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of Wats sand Means. In the Committee the
Right lion. Gentleman moved—
" That it he the opinion of the Committee that the Com-
missioners for the Lnitery be empowered to raise, by means
of Lottery, for Enelmod and !island, the sum of 400,001/1.
out of the sale of 60,000 lickelb, at a price not exceeding
101 per ticket." •
Mr. LYTTELTON was sorry to see the Right Hon.
Gentlemen determined to persevere in a ineasuie
which he deemed most reprehensible. He consi-
dered it a point of duty to oppose any thing like a
grant of this indult., as encouragisig a system highly
injurious to the interests of society in the lower
walks of life. Such had been the Report of the
Committee in 1808. It was obvious that it struck
at the root of ell industry, end pointed out to the
community another source of possible gain than
that resulting from holiest industry and ingenuity.
He was desirous to ascertain whether the Rt. Hon.
Gentleman had any new arguments Session to
offer in defence of his system ; for certainly if lie
had none other to offer thou those lie had formerly
submitted to the House, lie ought to entertain
little hopes of success to his application for tine
grant to the House.—(/ /ear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER should
trouble the House but with one observation in
reply to the observations of the lion. Member.
It was now simply is question fur the I louse to de-
termine, whether the estOdishment of the lottery
(which, by the bye, was 4 productive sod easy
source of revenue), was snit, in a great degree, a
preventative to all illegal said uu .uthorioed gam-
bling. In this point of view at least the Resolu-
tion would, he apprehended, meet the sentiments
of the House.

Sir M. W. RIDLEY could not give his consent
to a resolution so fraught with injurious consequen-
ces to society. The Right Hon. Gentleman, lie
observed, had not used one good argument in op-
position to the speech of his Hull. Friend, that
ought to influence the House to sanction the Reso-
lution.

Sir Jowl NEWPORT stated that he had a few
days since seen in a Dublin Newspaper, that oue
of the Sheriffs for that city, a lottery-office-keeper,
had been convicted of taking illegal lottery insu-
rances. and that six actions of a similar kind were
still pending over him. Ile understood that this
man had bean convicted of a similar offence in the
preceding -year, but that notwithstanding this lie
had been again licensed. He hoped that the Right
Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
would persist in putting down the abominable sys-
tem of illegal insurauces.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXcIIEHOER said, that
had he heard of such a circumstance occurrii.g in
London, he should lint suffer the lottery-office-
keeper to hr again licensed.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that the Right
Hon. Gentleman was Chancellor of the Ezchequer
for Ireland as well as for England.—(Hear, htur.
. Mr. WILBERFORCE condemned the system of
lotteries as being conducive to crime, and com-
pared it in practice to that of licensing gambling
houses in Paris. He hoped to see the Chancellor
of the Exchequer convinced of the errors of his
present conduct, and put an end to a system which
tended to destroy every good principle, every in-
dustrious habit, more than perhaps any other cir-
cumstance whatever. It had indeed been said,
and said truly, that a certain sum of money was
obtained Isy this system iii support of the finances
of the country ; but who could count the mass of
evil thereby produced, or estimate the amount of
misery resulting from it ? Ile trusted he should
live long enough to see the system terminated, and
for the prevent he should protest most strongly
against it.
Mr. B. HOWARD observed, that the Legislature
had, in passing a former law, recognised the princi-
ple that every lottery was a nuisance, and conduced
to the extension of crime, and consequently to the
general nnaery of the country.
Mr. W. SMITH allowed, that if a certain sum of
money were to be squandered in the country by gam-
bling, he should prefer to have it squandered in the
lottery. whereby a cereal,, revenue would be pro-
duced ; but bedewed that such was the case, and con.
tended, that the existence of a lottery created a spirit
of gambling. which would not otherwise be found in
operation. It was not as if a certain quantity of bad
blood were to be let off from the body by one means
in preference to another, bat the very act of bleed-
ing created the bad blood, which but for the opera-
tion would not exist. He considered the encourage-
ment of saving-banks with one hand, while on the
other the lottery office keepers were permitted, by
every scheme and mode of deceit. to induce the
people to throw away their little sowings in the lot-
tery, was a solicism in legislnture, and as perfectly
the act of a mountebank as ally he had ever wit-
nessed.

Mr. Lirrnuaux, in reply, begged leave to add to

s
r

what had already teen urged on the subject, thst no
Country in the world was less actuate-ft by a gatisblifut
spirit than E island ; but in coirsequesice of the
eitistruce of a lottery. persons of every class were
induced to hazard their money, and even where
individuals were not able to put-chew. sixteenths,.
little societies had been formed in many parts of
the country to share the • 'circuses.
The House then divided, when there appeare,d—w
For the Resolution

Against it ..

Majority for Ministers
ROYAL. NUPTIALS.
Mr. BROGDEN br..u,4A up the It-port of
the Coin iiittee of Supply for granting a sum of
6,000/. a year to hid Royal Higlinear ear Duke of
Kent, and a farther SUM of 6,000/. a year, by way
of dower, to the Princess Marie Louise Victoire of
Linangen, in case of her surviving her Royal
Consort.

The Resolutions were read and agreed to, and
Bala ordered to be brought in accordingly.

LABOURERS' WAGES.

On the motion of Mr. J. P. GRANT a Com-
mittee was appointed to search the Lords' Ituroalt%
to ascertaiu what proceedings the Lords had adopted
with respect to the 1311 i for altering mid
the Act of the lith of George 1., the id of
George 11., and the 57th of George 111., relative
to the payment of labourers' wages.—Ordered.