The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.

MR. CARDEN.
Lord BROUGHAM said, seeing his noble friend the
Lord President of the Council in his place, he begged to
ask him a question. It was stated in Dublin that an
individual named Carden, who had been convicted of
one of the worst cases of abduction he bad heard of,
was now at liberty, after having been sentenced to two
years' imprisonment. It was reported that, in conse-
quence of ill health, Mr. Carden had been discharged,..
on condition that he was to live out of the United King-
dom during the remaining period of his sentence of im-
prisonment. He wished to ask whether that was correct?
Earl GRANVILLE said the whole of the facts of
the case had been correctly described by his noble and
learned friend. In consequence of a medical ceitificate,
stating that Mr. Carden was in a declining state of
bealtb, and that a continued imprisonment would im-
peril his life, an order was made by the Irish portion of
the Government to have Mr. Carden discharged upon
the conditions named. The matters wa,, however,
under the consideration of the Irish Executive.
MARINE MUTINY BILL.
On the, motion of Earl GRANVILLE, this bill was
read a second time.

MUTINY BILL.
This bill passed through committee
Earl GREY said on the third reading of the Mutiny
Bill, he begged to give notice of his intention to ask a
question of the Commander-in-Chief, relative to - the
sale of commissions in the army.
TEA. DUTIES DECLINE SUSPENSION BILL.
—his bill passed through committee.
EXCHEQUER BILLS (£17,183,000) BILL.
Eail GRANVILLE, in moving that this bill be read
a third time, begged permission to repeat an explanation
hadwhich he already given to his noble friend (Lord
Ilionteagle) in answer to two questions which his noble
-friend had put to him with regard to the change in the
issue of deficienoy bills last year. What he stated in re-
ply to his noble friend, and which he wished now to re-
peat in reference to the first question, was, that the law
officers of the Crown had been consulted on the subject,
and had given an opinion favourable to the course which
his right hon. friend the late Chancellor of, the Exche-
quer adopted. With regard to the second 4uestion, he
had stated that the correspondence which had passed
between the authorities of the Bank of England and Mr.
Gladstone was of a private nature. He had since, how-
ever, ascertained that though that was in the main cor-
rects and that the correspondence in question was gene-
rally of a prive nature, there was one paper which bore
something of a public character.
Lord MONTEAGLE said that though there might
very well be a correspondence between the Chancellor
of the Exchequer and the Bank which ought to be con-
sidered of a private nature, yet he certainly disapproved
of a correspondence, involving great public interests,
- being carried on in such a manner as to render the do-
cuments necessarily private. With respect to the let-
ters in question, all he would add was, that, if it should
eventually appear that neither the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer nor the Bank of England had any objection to
their production, he (the noble lord) would leave it to
her Majesty's Government whether they ought not to be
produced. The bill, the third reading of which was now
before the house, demanded its most serious attention.
It was curious how quietly measures involving great in-
terests were passed through their lordships' house. That
very night the Tea Duties Decline Suspension Bill had
been passed through committee in silence, and yet by
that bill a reduction of taxes to the amount of 500,0001.
a-year would at once be given up. It was, he admitted,
• a very necessary measure, but still he could not but re-
mark on the manner in which it had been allowed to pass
through committee. With respect, however, to the bill
now under consideration, if their lordships would consider
its importance, and the principle upon which it rested, they
would see there were few bills that could be brought be-
fore them of greater importance. If the house was asked
what the bill was about, the answer would most probably
be that it was the usual Exchequer Bill,which was passed
every year. Such was originally his (Lord Montea-
gle's) own opinion ' • but when he looked into the bill at-
tentively, he found its scope was far wider—dealing not
only with the past and present, but also largely with the
future—than any of its predecessors, and that it intro-
duced a new principle into that branch of finance. The
house was aware that the ordinary unfunded debt con-
sisted of securities by bills, which were given for twelve
months, bearing interest, and renewable by other bills,
according to such altered conditions as the Chancellor
of the Exchequer might think right' to impose. Though
the bill, as drawn, seemed to be an ordinary bill for the
exchange of Exchequer-bills, it took a much wider scope.
When the bill was brought in in the early part of the
last session to prepare for the first efforts of war, he
thought that those efforts should have been of a more
decided character, and shown to foreign countries that
we were prepared for a great struggle. It was then
stated, with great truth, that whereas some of the ways
and means that were then voted would not be in imme-
diate course of payment, and that as the expenditure
would be immediate, it was necessary that application
shOuld be made to Parliament to -provide for the tem-
porary deficiency by Exchequer-bills. That proposition
was agreed to by the other house, and acquiesced in by
their lordships. At the same time, a great principle was
laid down, almost without qualification, that the differ-
ence between right and wrong was hardly more distinct
than the difference of raising money to meet the expenses
of the war by annual taxation and by credit or loan. It
was under the circumstance of that principle that the Go-
vernment of the day found it necessary to raise a sum of
money to meet the expenses of the war. The sum re-
quired was 1,750,0001. That amount was raised, upon
the understanding that it should be repaid out of revenue,
instead of being a permanent debt in the eature of ordi-
nary bills renewable from year to year. It eas then
stated that the expenses of the nor would be met by
taxation from year to year—that these bills would be
such as to distiagnish them from ordinary bills repre-
. sentiag a permanent debt—that they would be charge-
able upon revenue ; and they were told that, when once
. the bills were issued, they would hear no more of the
matter. It so happened that, by looking to this sum of
17,183,0001., and comparing it with the orinary amount,
which was 1e,000,0001. some odd numbers, he found
that these bills, which had been proclaimed to be so dif-
ferent from-the ordinary annual bills exchangeable from
year to year, bad been slipped into this bill—(hear)—
without notice, without explanation in any shape what-
ever ; and that they had been converted from short bills,
chargeable upon revenue, into what bad been described
by a late member of the Government as "permanent in
respect—the obligation of renewing them is from
•year to year." What he complained of was, the laying
down one principle and acting upon the very opposite.
(Hear.) The noble lord then read an extract from the
work of M. Leon Faucher, called " Essays upon- the
Finances of War," in which he had occasion to consider
the question of raising the supplies within the year, or
by loan—the one course being adopted by England,
the other by the Emperor of France. He (M. Leon
Faucher) said that the reasoning of Mr. Gladstone,
though supported by the great authority of Mills
and M'Colloch, was far front being unanswer-
able. He laid it down as a principle, that when the
exigency was trifling it was the duty of the Govern-
ment to meet the expenses by current taxation ; but upon
other occasions, when the'exigency was great, and they
were involved in wars which would affect future gene-
rations as much as, or more, than the present genera-
tion, it was neither prudence nor justice to throw the
whole cost and weight of a national contest upon the
annual taxation. He (Lord Monteagle) maintained that
• that was the common sense of the case. In '97 Mr.
Pitt made a change of his financial policy. He (Lord
Monteagle) differed from Mr. Pitt in his financial policy
on many points, but he admitted it was impossible to
carry on the war with France without borrowing. But
we were now approaching the provision to be made for
one of the greatest struggles in which this country had
been yet engaged—a question as to what amount of de-
ficiency we may have to provide for. If there be a
chance of the doctrines laid down last year being applied
to this year, he trembled at the consequences of such an
experiment, because he thought it would be a great
wrong and a great injustice upon the industrious people
of this country. In 1817, during Lord Liverpool's Go-
. vernment, thera was a model estimate laid before Par-
liament, which was held to be adequate for the ordinary
safety of the country, yet it scarcely exceeded
17,000,0001. The estimates for the present year he
bad no means of getting at but what were known
to their lordships ; but taking the average supplies
for 1851, 1852, and 1853, they were about 21,000,000/. ;
the votes for 1854, he believed, were 39,000,0001. ;
• while in the present year, without taking into
• account the votes for the disembodied militia,
-the packet service, or miscellaneous, the vote
would be 39,800,0001. ; so that he thought there
• ight be a charge of 50,800,0001. And that was only
.Ine the active service ; there was not a word about the
Chrttiudettet
ita Fund or the diplomatic service ; therefore,
sh ould kn ow
was of very great importance that they
t least the principle upon which those sup-
lies; were riaaed. (Hee
Earl GRAlV't''i,E r.
the greatest 'ire admitted this was a subject of
port to the whole country. At the
same time he felt he hardly need offer an apology that
he bad not thought
necessary to trespass upon the
house by a speech, in asking them tot give their consent
to a bill enabling the Governmenntotogrreamiste an amount of
Exchequer-bills, to an amount
two exceptions, than had been annually
length, brought
last 42 years of peace. He was convinced he during the
bin another
lord, in his speech of nearly. an hour's._
forward no argument against the bill,
timeh
but
" u-
eirstebda‘‘td.
tt cite or
meet that had existed for someranveilrer„ him
an
a
right hon. friend of his (Lord G
place. With reference to the answer
.w 11) the noble
lord bad made to the speech of that right hon. gentle.
man, he (Lord Granville) had no idea when he was com-
ing down to the house what remarks the noble lord was
• about to make. But he assumed that the late Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer laid it down as a rule never
- to have recourse to a loan. He (Lord Graioit-ioiluer)abbe-
lieved the principles laid down by his right bn
friend were sound in themselves, and he believed there
was an-evil in loans which bad a tendency not only to
make the people but the Parliament and the Go-
vernment more lavish of money than otherwise. He
could not admit the doctrine of M. Leon Faucher, be-
cause at the end of the last war the debt of France was
comparatively small to that of England, which was enor-
mous. It was impossible for him to anticipate what the
present Chancellor of the Exchequer might propose to his
colleagues, and be even declined to give any opinion on
that stamp bill to which the 'noble lord had alluded.
The noble lord talked about trembling for the future,
but he (Lord Granville) thought, looking to the general
~statt of the trade of the country, looking to the state of