The Sun.
London, England, 1855-05-18 00:00:00

an assurance from the Secretary of State for the Colonies,
that the Crown would gia lly receive from them any mea-
sure by Which they proposed to create a constitution for
themselves, the House of Commons shouldnow turn round
and say that it would completely ignore the whole of
their conduct, and throw aitogether aside the p!an of the
constitution which they hail adopted. (Hear.) With re-
spect to the labours of a select committee in searching
for a constitution for the colony, he thought it would
give rise to very groat disappointment if legislation on
the subject were to be, postponed, as -it most certainly
wculd by this step, for another year. The hon. me fiber
had taken a technical objection to the form in which the
bill had been introduced, but which he admitted might
be easily remedied by the insertion of a few words in the
clause. Upon th,s ipoint, however, he thought the hon.
member was in error, because he (Lord John Russell)
understood from the legal authority usually employed
in framing the bills in the Colonial office, that the bill
would be perfectly efficient for its object. Ne considered
it a groundless assertion on the part of the hon. mem-
ber, that the' bill had been framed by a legislative coun-
cil elected by an imperfect and unequal system of elec-
tion ; because if they were to refuse to receive any mea-
sures from the colony until its representative system was
reformed by an act of that house, it would be to delay
legislation for an indefinite period, and to render nuga-
tory a large proportion of the measures wh oh Lad been
already passed by the legislature of that colony. Ob-
jectione had also been taken to the act of the Colonial
Legislature, on the ground that one of its chambers con-
sisted of a nominee council ; but there was nothing in the

principle of a nominated council abhorrent to the theories
and feelings of this country, and it was only until very
recently that any other than councils of that sort existed
in any of our colonies. Elected and nominated cham-
bers had both their advantages ; but even if elected
councils were considered the best, he could not
believe that a.pominated chamber was so entirely vicious
and bad as to justify the house in refusing to receive
with the attention which it might deserve every mea-
measure which might be passed by such a council. (Hear.)
The hon. and learned gentleman bad admitted that he
hid himself considerable difficulty in determining what
would be the proper course to adopt. But where was the
use of taking hold of trivial objections and of throwing
impediments in the way of a sett!ement of this question?
There were two ways in which the hon. and learned
gentleman did not think it would be satisfactory ; and
then he proposed an entirely new mode, which was to
say to the colonists who wished a constitution that they
should not have it until all the colonial constitutions
were thrown into hotchpot before a committee• of the
Helm of Commons, and uoul that committee should de-
termine what was the best theoretical constitution which
would most suit their own views. That is, that
the colonists should wait for another year, and that then
they might have the satisfaction of gett•ng as good a con-
stitution a, the select committee of the blouse of Corn-
mons could frame. He (Lord J. Russell) could not see
how the course proposed by the hon, and learned gen-
tleman could solve the difficulty, and he certainly thought
it was better to take the Legislature of New SouthWisles
I for a guide than to adopt any such proposition.
Mr. DUFFY concurred in all the objections stated
by the hon. and learned member for Kidderminster.
This country had offered a boon to the colonists, and
now it was proposed t 3 make a dishonest attempt to
render null and void the offer made to New South
Wales. He contended that the Legislative Chamber
would be nominated by the very class which the colo-
nists waisted to get rid of, and he complained greatly
that the constitution of the council could not be changed
without the consent of two-thirds of its inembers-----
Lord J. RUSSELL begged to set the hon. member
right on that point. It was proposed to give power by
the act to effect that change by the usual majority of
the mem Iv re of council.
Mr. DUFFY could not see why an upper nominated
chamber, having been repudiated in the Cape of Good
Hope, in New Zealand, and elsewhere, should be in-
flicted on that colony. The whole of the colonises were
opposed to the nominated upper chamber, and they had
expressed their opposition to it in the most vehement
terms in their petitions. An examination of the peti-
tions showed the remarkable result that there were
12,152 signatures against the act, whereas there were
only 228 signatures te the petitions in favour of the act
and 48 for some modifications in it. It was plain, then,
that the wishes of the colonists were utterly opposed to
the bill, which would be a perpetual source of irritation
if passed as it then stood. True colonists of New South
Wales would look to. New Zealand, to 'Victoria, and to
Van Diemen's Land, and they would never be content
without an elective chamber. He should oppose the
measure in all its stages.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS entreated the noble lord not to
pursue any course in opposition to the wishes of the colo-
n;sts. He hoped lie would not press the bill, but that he
would be convinced from the information he had received
that such a measure was directly the reverse of what the
people of New South Wales desired. He thought it
would be better to send back the bill to the colony, and
let the people elect another assembly.
Mr. J. BALL said the inconvenience of discussing a
bill before it was laid on the table of the house was ma-
nifested during this debate, for hon. members .had not
had an opportunity of reading the bill, and therefore
their objections were in some instances groundless. This
was the case in regard to one important point. It was
proposed to give a power by the bill to put the constitu-
tion on the same footing as the other laws, and, instead
of requiring a majority of two thirds for its alteration, to
require only an ordinary majority. (Hear.) With re-
spect to the petitions on which the hon. member laid
such stress, it was well known that the signature, to the
petitions laid on the table of that house were not always
a safe guide in determining the opinion of the people on
the merits of a measure, and in the case of these colonial
petitions he was satisfied that those signatures did not
fairly represent the ntiinents of the people of New
South Wales upon this measure.
Leave was then given to bring in the hill.
Leave was also given to Lord John Russell to bring
in a bill to repeal the acts of Parliament now in force
respecting the disposal of the waste lands of the Crown
in her Majesty's Australian colonies, and to make other
provisions in lieu thereof.
The New South Wales Government Bill and the
Waste Lands Australia Bill were brought in by Lord J.
Russell, and read a first tine.
Mr. I. BUTT brought in his Railways Ireland Bill,
which was read a first time.
Tue house adjourned at a quarter past ten.

LOSS OP THE SHIP TORN.

FA.LIVIOUTH, MAY 15.

The bench sat yesterday, when further evidence was
taken. On assembling again to-day the bench did not
consider it necessary to call any further witnesses in the
case, and, after the attorney for the owners had made
some comments on the evidence, the magistrates, assisted
by Capt. Ronertson, unanimously agreed to make the
following report to Coe Board of Trifle :
"That the ship was provided with four boats—three of
which were efficient, the other doubtful ; that the lifeboat
was neither stowed in the proper place, nor prepared for
immediate service, as directed by the act ; and to these
circumstances probably the staving and loss of the lifeboat,
and the delay in endeavouring to get out the longboat, are
to be attributed.
" That, with the exception of one signal lantern, there
were no means on board the ship of making a signal of dis-
tress by night. We think that, had there been adequate
means of making such signals, and had they been shown
when the ship first got on shore, while the, weather was
moderate, the boats would have come off at an earlier
period, and thus have rescued a much larger portion of
passengers.
" That, with respect to the above deviations from the
provisions of the Passengers' Act, we consider that the
Government emigration officer and owners of the ship are
culpable.
" That, either from the ignorance or gross and culpable
negligence of the captain, the course steered oy his orders
were the direct cause of bringing the vessel on the Manacle
Rocks.
" That after the vessel struck the conduct of the captain
was most reprehensible in every respect; he appears to
have taken no active means to save the lives of the passen-
gers, din not assist them to leave the 'ship, quitted her
himself while many passengers were still in the rigging,
and he and the mate were the only two persons who se-
cured anything for themselves, the captain saving his
cloak and the mate his quadrant.
"That the chief mate appears to be ignorant of his du-
ties and responsibilities, and is culpable in not having per-
sonally rendered assistance to the passengers.
" That the conduct of the crew, with the exception of
Andrews, Elder, and one or two others, appears to have
been very bad, but would possibly have been different had
a better example been set them by their officers.
"That the conduct of the chief boatman of the Coast-
guard and his men, and of a fisherman, named Jas. Hill,
and others associated with them, in going to autl taking
the passengers and crew off the wreck, was highly com-
mendable.
"The circumstances of this case render it our duty to
suggest to your lordships that in all passenger ships the
first mate should be required to have a certificate of com-
petency, instead of one of services only; and that the
number and nature of the night signals required to be pro-
I tided by the ownersof passenger ships should be specified."

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