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deal with that important subject, promotions in the army;
and as to thnsecond, he thought it had been proved by Sir
Northcote that it would be nugatory. He denied that
flirt Layard intended by his motion a direct vote of want
of confidence in the Government, and, after citing the
opinions of official persons as to the effects of patronage in
the civil service, ho justified the course of action denomi-
nated "the Goderich pledge," thinking, he said that in
the war with patronage the members of that house should
perform their part. The allusion in Mr. Leyard's motion
to the manner in which family connexions were allowed to
influence appointments, and to the evils of such influence,
he thought justified by circumstances. He admitted that
a Minister would encounter great risks in endeavouring to
defeat or nullify this influence; he might even be removed
from his office; but no sacrifice could bo more noble than
one incurred in the endeavour to reform and render effi-
cient the public service.
Mr. F. PEEL said, after
.the statement of the noble lord
that the speech of the hon. member for Aylesbury had
not yet received any reply from the Government, ho hoped
the noble lord would not feel surprised, or feel it to be any
want of courtesy towards him, if he passed by the vague
speech which the noble lord himself had just made, and
proceeded at once to reply to that portion of the speech of
the hon. member for Aylesbury relating to the adminis-
tration of the army. By far the greater portion of the hon.
member's speech was confined to criticising the existing
system of administration in the army, and he condemned
in no measured terms the principle upon which he alleged,
but most erroneously alleged, promotion in the army was
regulated. Favouritism, family influence, and every other
sort of influence except the right influence, regulate the
patronise° of the army according to the hon. member, and
to show that such was theimpression which the hoe. mem-
ber's speech was calculated to create, let him recall to their
recollection the fact that the hon. member distinctly stated
that men who worked hard in the army, or rendered- good
service to theirlcountry, weroallowed to remain unrewarded
instead of being encouraged to pursue the honourable and
us fill career to which they were devotine themselves,
while men who did nothing at all, or when they had
the opportunity of doing something would not avail them-
selves of it, were taken by the hand at the Horse
Guards and raised to the highest posts in their pro-
fession. Now, if the hon. gentleman had contented
himself with a general statement of that sort, he should
have at once met that statement, which he should have felt
himself perfectly warranted in doing, with a simple con-
tradiction; but the hon. gentleman hose to pursue a dif-
ferent course. The hon. gentleman followed up his gene-
ral assertion by going into particular cases ; and of course
it could hardly be expected that be should reply to the
hon. gentleman the same evening, because he knew nothing
whatever of the cases which he cited. The hon. member
told them that out of 90 officers who had been rewarded
for distinguished services in the East only 30 were regi-
mental officers. [Mr. Layard—Ouly 25.] The hon. mem-
ber referred to a Parliamentary return to support his erro
/eons statement, but he should have been more cautious
in his qnotations after his previous experience in that re-
spect, because although it was write true that in the re-
'him which he quoted there were 60 staff officers and only
30 regimental officers shown to have been promoted, it
should yet have been observed that the return was made
on the 13th of March, just three months ago, while at
the foot of the return there was a note to the effect that
the General Commanding-in-Chief was expecting to receive
a further list of the names of majors and captains of regi-
ments who had been engagedin action or had distinguished
theriaselves in the trenches, and who bad been promoted
for such services. (Hear, bear,) Now, if the hon. member
aspiring to lead the country had b :en anxious not to de-
ceive, or to state the case fairly, he would have gone to
him and inquired whether the return referred to in the
note had been received, or whether the distinctions, which
on the 13th of March last were stated ,as about being con- 1
ferred, had been actually conferred or not. (Hear, hear )
Within a month or so after the r- turn was made the Ge-
neral
Commanding-in-Chief di 1 receive that list of regi-
mental officers,' and it would be found in the Gazette of the
24th April last. It was a list of captains promoted to the
rank of major, and majors to the rank of brevet lieutenant-
colonels, and if that list were added to the one in the re-
turn, it would be found that the promotions had been four
times as many as represented by the hon. member. (Hear.)
Re might state, in conclusion, that 64 staff-officers and 135
regimental officers had been rewarded for their services in
the East. The hon. gentleman had referred to the case of
Colonel Wilson, but the real question for consideration in
that case was, whether Col. Wilson should purchase his own
commission, or whether it should have been purchased for
him by the relatives of a deceased officer, Col. Mackinnon.
(Hear, hear.) Colonel Wilson had put down his name for
Purchase in consequence of two officers above him having
withdrawn their names for purchase, and stated that they
would take their chance of obtaining promotion by casual-
ties. The object of Colonel Wilson was to gat over the
heads of those two officers, but it happened that by the
casualties of war vacancies were created by death, and those
two officers succeeded in getting their promotion before
Colonel Wilson. The hon. gentleman then addressed him-
self to the case of regiinental appointments, and, iu illus-
tration of hie meaning, divided the cases into two clas.e.i,
one with and the other without interest. He named in the
first class five officers, four of whom were relatives of Lord
tiartlinge—namely, the Hon. Arthur Hardinge, his son ;
Major Hardinge, his nephew; Colonel Wood, a relative
by marriage; and Colonel Conyngham, his son-in-law. In
referring to the case of the Hon. Arthur Hardinge, the
hon. member referred to the existence of an order whereby
it was directed that an officer should not be appointed
aide-de-camp until he had served two years, and stated
that in the case of the Hon. Arthur Hardinge that order
had not been observed. The order to which the lion. mem-
ber referred was enforced at home, but abroad and in India
it was dispensed with in the case of the governor-general's
staff and in the case of the general officer commanding
when the army was in the field. With respect to the case
of Colonel Wood, ho had been assistant quartermaster-
general at the Horse Guards, and when the deputy quar-
termaster-general became vacant in Dublin, he -succeeded
to the vacant office, he (Mr. Peel) would not say according
to established custom, hut in accordanco with a course of
proceeding for which a great number of precedents could
be cited. As to the case of Col. Couynghatn, he might ob-
serve that he had been acting since the commencement of
war as assistant adjutant-general of the first division of
army, lied been present in all the battles, and never was
;ent from his post, and in every instance the description
appointment recently conferred on him carried with it
• step of local rank. The hoe. gentleman complained
et his being made a major-general, but it should bo
recollected that Colonel Hardinge was twenty-five veers in
the service, and the complaint was inconsistent after the
statement made the other night by the hon. member him-
self with respect to the ages.of the generals in the Pepin •
sular war. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member then referred
to the case of Captain or Major Selby Smith to the office of
deputy-quartermaster at the Cape. That was not an ap-
pointment which in all probability Lord Harding° would
have made himself, but in making it he had yielded to the
representatioors of General Jackson—the officer responsible
for the tranquillity of Cape Colony—and who, in antici-
pation of Colonel Kloete's requisition, recommended Major
Selby Smith shOuld lee appointed to that office. That
officer bad obtained the brevet rank of lieutenant, but the
hon. member was mistaken as to the effect of that brevet
promotion. The hon. member said the first step he had
received placed him over the head of the senior major of
his own regiment, while the second step placed him over
the liutenant-colonel of his regiment. Now the fact really
was, that the brevet rank obtained by this officer did not
in any way alter his relation to the regiMental officers of
his regiment. He (Mr. Peel) had now disposed of the
first of the two classes to which the hon. member had re-
ferred ; and he would now refer to the class that hail, ac-
cording to the hon. member's statement, been neglected
for so long a time. (Hear, hear.) The first case he stated
was that of Lieutenant Buck, who Was one of those officers
Nebo had suffered from the system of purchase. (Hear,
Lear) He had no means to purchase, and had crept slowly
through the grade of lieutenant, but he was now senior
lieutenant, and if his regiment should be sent to the seat
of war, and raised from twelve to sixteen companies, he
Would, as a matter of course, be appointed captain of one
of the new companies without purchase. The next caso
to which the honourable member had referred was . the
ease of Lieutenant Edwards, who had served in the lee-
-4lnsular war, and been engaged on several occasions. At
the conclusion of the war Limit. Edwards was placed on
the a half-ep y list in 1818, and there he had since remained,
With the exception of about seven years, (luring which be
was on full pay. It was complained that he did not get an
unattached company, and there was no disposition to give
such an appointment when it became vacant; but he
apprehended it would not be for the interest of Lieutenant
Edwards to get that promotion, because he is adjutant of
the recruiting district of Liverpool, and that situation,
according to the regulations, could only be held by a lieu-
tenant. The next was the case of Captain Carruthers, who
ad been refused a brevet-majority, to which he was re-
commended by General Cathcart. He was en officer who
had been placed on half-pay in 1818, and, with the excep-
gcl:of five years, had been on-half pay from that time to
; but in the year 1842 lie was appointed brigade-major
t'aleetown.
the
Kafir) admitted that it was proba-
te that when the war broke out the duties of this
Officer were largely increased ; but when at the termination
.
this war application was made by General C ethcart to
I
Hardinge, to confer the honorary distinction of bre-
2t-rnajor upon him, Lord Hardinge, considering that he
Zas 600 miles from the st of war, and that liehtel never
"en in British Kaffraria, ea
thought that such a distinction
ought rather to be conferred upon officers personally en-
gaged with the enemy, than upon a man who, however
Well he had performed his duties, was not in the field. The
nett case to which the bona member had referred was the
eft" of Lieutenant Daniel, and the complaint was that he
has refused an unattached company without purchase. It
Appeared from a memorandum which he had received from
r Home Guards that Lieutenant Daniel had retired from
the
94th Foot, then in India and about to return home,
te) the 75th Regiment, and that he had received, as is cus-
ehmarY in such cases, pecuniary compensation for ema k ing
e exchange. He then came to England, and applied for
Promotion, and it was thought necessary before giving it
taide for some explanation about the exchange he had
made.i7n.slved sum Lieutenant Daniel admitted that he had re-
a Bu of money for effecting the exchange, and
h_lvaa of course impossible to promote an of who
just made a profitable arrangement with regard to
commission. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman also
de charges wish
respect to the appointments on the
staff
h • Be had heard that officers were on the staff who
!td not received certificates at Sandhurst. Ho' (Mr. Peel)
int! not consider that such a certificate ought of itself to be
sidered as a satisfactory proof of qualification. The
h 2,12, gentleman's next complaint was. that whilst some
colonels of regiments, like Colonels Yorke and Garrett,
had'verts. acting temporarily in the Crimea as brigadiers, two
been appointed to hold that rank at Malta who had
IV seen any service at all—Colonels Williams and Romilly.
"'J. the truth was, that one brigadiership was just as
Eft° es another, and there was no difference in point of
Illetenlity; but did the hon. gentleman suppose that if the
and
appointments hail been offered to Colonels Yorke
Williams;re Garrett they would have been accepted? Colonel
was one of the oldest colonels of his rank in the
et,t:ioc, and Colonel Romilly had been filling the office of
fof the provisional battalion at Parkhurst, one quite
issrlogwa illaons tO the chargeen he now hel at altaea
en himself a proficit in its duties, andM at; th was
the
reasone why he had been sent to Malta. ( Hear.)
6 iteh regard to honours conferred by the Commander-in-
rpni f, he asked if they had been given with the object of
tu ding such officers as had greatly distinguished thorn-
selvesy? These honours, in the case of officers of high rank,
is Tr 0 the c'olonelcies of regiments. He found that four
Ilerleise had been conferred since the breaking out of the
r.ote young major-generals for services performed and
etelenction obtained in the campaign of the Crimea--Bir
t 'lin Campbell; Sir Richard England, Major-Generals
eeetturti.nck and Pekenhaui. (Hear.) Again, bow had Lord
dinge filled up the new companies created by the
ftiwould be
thanbe
lgtnentation of the regiments of Foot Guards 'r It
w
admitted that no situations were more sought,
after
commissions in the Guards, and if there
reo any disposition to abuse patronage there would be an
e tPortunity for doing so in this case. Half the additional
°lllPaniee raised were suffered to go in the separate bat-
aple the other, half were not given in that way, brit
-""re from the lino were brought in ancl-plitcod at their

1.
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head. (Hear.) In every instance the officers so brought
in ware persons who had seen good and diAinguished ser-
vice either in India, the Cape, or the Ctitnea. (Hear.)
He believed he had now ;one over every instance alleged
by the hon. gentleman of the vices and evils of the present
system ; and he would briefly notice the measures of re-
. form propouuded by him. The hon. gentleman said that
iu the first place we must abolish the system of promotion
proposed that, as 2,500 of the exist-
frm o Lord Harding() downwards, had
ibnygpcuor tuctsse s,iot he
been given without purchase, we should not in future al-
low any officer who
.had so received it, to sell his commis-
sion. He had given his best consideration to the plan thus
. suggested, and he could nut see that it could be adopted
without affecting vested interests, as the hon. gentleman
contended. Suppose the case of a lieutenant-colonel wish-
' jug to retire, who had received his ensigncy, say 20 years
before, without purchase. He had been so appointed on
the understanding that he would have the opportunity and
a I vantage of selling out, if he lived, and he (Mr. Peel)
could not see how such an officer could be deprived of the
right he had to a realisation of the pecuniary value of the
commission without a disturbance of his vested interests.
(Hear.) The hon. gejetleman then said that we must edu-
cate the staff, and allow no person to be appointed to it
who had not gone through a certain course of study. He
was not disposed to deny that there was value in that sug-
gestion, but he thought ho might pass it by without no-
tice, because the point was at that moment under the con-
sideration of a committee of that house, appointed to in-
quire into the system pursued at the Military College of
Sandhurst, and presided over by the right hon. baronet
the member for Portsmouth. The hon. gentleman endea-
voured to attribute our misfortunes to the public appoint-
ments which had been made, but the report of the com-
mittee of inquiry inculpated the system, and not indivi-
duals. He olid not believe that any one who succeeded the
Duke of Newcastle in his office would-have consented to
accept it if he had been tied up from making such reforms as
he held to be necessary, and required to exercise, the
functions with the same limited authority. Though he
could not teisent to the resolution, he wag as favourable
to the appointment of properly qualified men for the public
serviea as its most zealous adherent could be.

Mr.H.DRUMMOND criticised the terms of the motion,
which chiefly consisted of assertions which were open to
question. In reference to the speech of Mr. Lindsay at
Drury-lane, he reminded him of his having been had up for
not having sent out some Australian emigrants with whom
he had contracted. He did not mean to enter into that
I question, but it was not too much to say that the hon.
gentleman could not have displayed much administrative
ability or he would not have been so had up. Mr. Layard
' had said there was a run against him in that house, but it
was not the fact. Whateverhe bad received he had brought
on himself, but he and his friends had hounded down a
Mr. Walker and his friends at Drury-lane, because he did
not quite agree with them in opinion. Ha referred to the
adulterations of food to show the purity and innocence of
the middle classes, and to the East India Company to ex-
hibit the perfection of governmeut—a government by mer-
chants, who were wholly guiltless of an-, thing like job-
. bsry ! He could not see what was to be gained by voting
for either the motion or the amendment, for the cry on
• which they were founded was a delusive ono, which was
perfectly unintelligible.
Mr. JOHN MACGREGOR said that the house had lost
sight of the true course of proceeding. They ought to act
on the lessons of past experience. The Government were
no w in the same prodicamentas their predecessors were from
1744 to 1750, when the King was compelled to send for Mr.
Pitt, whom he mortally hated. He would take upon himself
to tell bold truths, and to " boll the cat" on this occasion.
When Mr. Pitt held the seals of office he would not al-
low any of the offices of the State to be filled by any but
efficient men. Since that time the British empire had
increased threefold in poWer and consequence ; and now,
who was at the head of the Government? A noble lord
of the greatest ability, and in whom he had the greatest
confidence. But he believed that he was not permitted to
rule with the freedom and with the power possessed by Mr.
Pitt. He then came to the Colonial-office. He believed
that that office was now filled by as able an administrator
as ever occupied it. He also believed that the Foreign-
office had an able head ; and he had also no doubt that if
the right hon. baronet at the head of the Home-office had
health and strength ho would be perfectly competent to
manage the affairs of that department. He now came tO
India. Aud he had no hesitation in saying that the coun-
try was perfectly astounded when a gentleman without a
single follower and of no prestige in the house was en-
trusted with the awful destinies of India. He believed
that the Admiralty would be .presided over by the right
hon. baronet opposite (Sir C. Wood) with the same saga-
city and ability which distinguished his career as secret try
in that department. It was true that that right hon.
baronet was not so popular as some other men either in
that house or in the country. (Laughter.) But the rea-
son of that was that he had too much of the bluntness of
au honest Englishman to he either evasive or truckling.
(Hear, and laughter.) Ho denied that there was any feel-
ing in the country against the aristocracy, but he could
not deny that there was dissatisfaction at the attention
which appeared to have been paid to the claims of con-
sanguinity in the formation of the Ministry, nor that there
was an opinion abroad, that the noble lord had been
obliged to yield to a superior influence in filling up the
great offices of State. There was no country, he was sorry
to say, in which the mere fitness of a man for high office
was so little considered as in England.
LENDSA.Y explained some inacouracies into which
Mr. Layard had fallen with respect to the promotion of
Lord Eustace Cecil and Mr. Blackett.

Mr. J. PHILLINIORE thought the principle of com-
petition could not be introduced into the 'civil service.
Ho was a friend to definite reform, and it was because ho
was so that he would vote against the motion of Mr.
Layard, which had nothing definite about it.
Mr. DISRAELI—I should not have deemed it necessary
to say a word in support of the amendment of my ItoM
friend the member for Hertfordshire, had it not been for
some remarks made in the course of the debate, especially
one made by my hon. friend the member for East Surrey
(11r. Drummond), who, with the humour in which he ex-
cels, sneered at the phrase " administrative reform," to
which he said he for one could annex no meaning and of
which he doubted whether those who used the phrase could
favour him with a definition. As I think I was the first
who used the expression in this house, it becomes me not
to shrink from assuring him that I think it is an expres-
sion capable cf definition, one to which I annex a very pre-
cise meaning, and one which I think expresses a principle
that, if acted on, may be most beneficial to the State. The
right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of ;the Exchequer di-
lated upon the improvements which have for some years
been made in the public service, and did me the honour to
acknowledge that tintin., the period when the Government
of Lord Derby were in office they were not remiss in ex-
ertions to improve the public service. The right hon. gen-
tleman the member for the University of Oxford (Mr.
Gladstone) still more amply and liberally acknowledged
that during the time the administration of Lord Derby was
in power steady and rapid progress—l think those were the
words he used—was made in efforts to render the public
service mote efficient. Now, I may be permitted to tell
my hon. friend (Mr. Drummond) that think that such
measures are measures of administrative reform. The right
hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the
member for the University of Oxford would have the house
to infer that in the measures which we adopted, especially
in regard to the departments connected with the adminis-
tration of Ireland, we followed precedents which had been
set before us. I would take the liberty of stating that the
course we adopted in issuing commissions to examine
into the several departments .of the pubiic service was
not influenced by these precedents, however reputable.
The fact is that, pitevious to our accession to office, a very
significant event had occurred, which had more influence
upon our conduct, and must have had more influence upon
that of any Government than any precedents which might
have been found in the public odium. Before we arrived
tc office the extraordinary scandal respecting the adminis-
tration of the Customs hat taken place, and the circum-
stances attending it had been examined into by a committee
of this house, which made a report, with which no doubt
:many hon. members were familiar. It devolved upon,uS to
consider what. was the measure which we thought compe-
tout, in a remedial sense, to deal with sucha state of aff drs.
and which, had our Government continued, would have
been almost the first we should have submitted to the
house. It was in examining that important subjeet that
our attention was naturally attracted to consider the ad-
ministration awl management of all branches of the public
service. It was impossible to resist the conc?usion that the
public offices required considerable change, and that they
weie not as efficient as a country in the condition of Eng-
land had a right to requite. We strived at the conclusion
that the changes associated with what is now called admin-
istrative reform were changes which were imperatively re-
quired, and which no Government could long continue
without originating and carrying out. Another cause that
led us to that opinion was, the:, we thought the system of
taxation required considerable alteration to render it mere
just. To effort the changes we contemplated it was our in-
terest
to have the largest possible surplus. 'Therefore we
were au volts to consider whether we could not increase it
by making all practical and judiciouseconomies in the public;
service. We had not long investigated the question before
we perceived that efficiency was the true parent of economy
and that in considering what was efficient we should ob-
tain more surely the economical results and the reduction
of expenditure which we desired to secure. It was with
these feelings that we applied to my noble friend the in -
bur for Buckingham(the Marquis otChandos),and requested
hint to make that revision of the Irish departments which
has boon several times inferred to in the course of this de-
bate. My noble friend undertook that operation with no
limit as to expenditure, and only one instruction, which
Was to render the Irish service as efficient as he possibly
could. With these views he, with the present accountant-
general of the navy, undertook the revision of the chief
secretary's office, the Irish Privy-Council office, and the
Irish office in this country. The consequence of the reforms
effected was to place these offices in the most efficient
state, and at the same time to obtain a reduction of expen-
diture to the amount of 25 per cent. After that experi-
ment, and after due consideration, the Government of
Lord Derby resolved to bring under the consideration of
the helm, as soon as it was in their power, the whole ques-
tion of administrative reform. On this occasion I aril most
,careful not to speak of the mere intentions of the Govern-
ment. lam not now pretending to express to the house
what was all we intended. I scrupulously confine mysel
to measures of which, as the organ of the Government, I
had given notice in my place in this house. It was our
intention, as I then stated, after tke measures we were
then concerned with were settled—if they had been favour-
ably settled-4o have brought under the consideration of
the house the whole question of administrative reform,
with the view of rendering the public administration of the
country more efficient, and the public service in all de-
partments more consonant with the requirements of the
are I should have stated the reforms which we thought
should take place in the civil service, and that we hail re-
commended her Majesty to issue a royal commission to in-
quire into the conduct of all the public departments of the
State, and from the teport of that commission we should
have drawn those regulations which we thought were.neces-
4ary to effect the regulations, and should have had them
:sanctioned and enforced by an act of Parliament. Listening
tq the alterations which have been devised on all shies,. it.
appears tie me that it is the course which should have pre-
ceded all suggestions; because the first thing we want is to
learn how the public service can bo carried on in the most
efficient manner. I think I have shown that there is some-
thing definite to be associated with the phrase "adminis-
trative reform." Had we remained in office, we should have
had the honour of introd acing two measures of administrative
reform which have been sanctioned by the Government
which followed us. One was the measure for the better, ad-
,ninistration of the Customs. Surely the hon. member for
.Elaospttirrieny
rwegilalrndottoprtehteentslubt
jheactt the measure which was
~
was not a measure of
" administrative reform." Another measure of " adminis
trative reform," for which the county y was indebted to the
Government o Lord Derb althouoh we had not the ho-
nour of passing it, is
the lAsere in accordance with which
'he gross ,revenue of the country is to be paid into, the Ex-
chequers-a measnro of which I had given notice, and which
the-right-hon, gentleman Who succeeded me oglied wits

the
the
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gi