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London, England, 1820-02-19 00:00:00

ITU

_ impossible
a conciesitiit' before the present Parliament
should terminate their sittings. And surely •it
was infinitely more desirable that these should
be brought to so end by the same persons with
whom they originated than instead of being
taken up in an imperfect state by a House which
had no concern in the introduction of them.—
With regard to the Civil List, he was swore that
the settlement of it had usually been the first burl-
„goo submitted to Parliament on occasions similar
Jo the present. That, however, he conceived to
Wee arisen merely from tfie desire felt by ParlM-
went to sheer its respect to the throne t but if
teem considerations of public convenience the
Cenws suer it fitting to waive what might be
called its right to this, former precedents were
Pa jolt. ground of opposition. The question re-
lative to the new military force would of necessity
resole tinder the consideration of the existing
Parliament as a part of the Mutiny Bill. The
obit Marquis lied insinuated that his Majesty's
Violaters were ominous Oat cell • new Parliament,
use they had measures to propose which they
not submit to this. woe branch of which was
es soon to return to Its constituents. In reply to
this, ell lie should say was, that whether Ministers
Mantempleted any such measures, the country "'Atria
be the best judge after the meeting of the new Par-
hellbent.

Earl Giosystrot observed, that the measures
recommended by emitters were indecorous, unne-
cessary, and wocoostitutionsl. The Noble Earl
who had last addressed the House had argued tie
suet► a roomier as if the utmost possible duration of
the present Parliament were but one or two
moot Ili, WI) it might sit fur near six, which was
equal to the general length of a °Session. It wat
nut to be supposed, th,•rrfore, that it could nor,
as asserted by the Noble Earl, get through the
ordinary public lousiness previouswo its rising. The
Noble E (flarrowbo had spoken of the que.-
tion of the additional 10.000 men coining before
the House within the Mutiny 801 l in such • wry
as if its longer 'utmost was • matter of course.
But he told them, that knowing as they did the di•.
tres.es of the country, and the etnbarrassed state of
the finances, it became them to consider seriously
before making up their minds to agree to such a
proposition. Ile called upon Monster. to say
why they thought of keeping up ►o large a null..
tory force in this country in the fifth year of
peace. Did they mean to say that the military
energies of this country would be exerted on.
behalf of the arbitrary Government of Spa:to ?
Or was it to support the despotic rulers of the Con.
Intent, who had promised their subjects foes con-
stitutions, but revoked their words when the beer
of peril was past ? Cool., it be to suppress dies
affectioa at home, when they had already heard.
even to nausea, that it had (seen completely put
down by the celebrated new Acts ? lot his opinion,
the only purpose of so numerdus an army was one
which could not be avowed—to extend the to-
fllence of the Ministers of the Crown. For his
part, lie should never lend himself by leis vote to
the support of ►uch a system of measures.
The Earl of LAUDERDA LE 'mid, that be scarcely
ever looked on ally act or the present Almoners
with greater disapprobation than the communica-
tion they had caused to he made to this House, of
his Majesty's intention to dissolve the Parliament.
The reason alleged for the hasty dissolution. by
the Noble Earl who had opened the subject,
was, that if the existing Parliament were not to l e
dissolved for six mouths more, the Members of the
other House, if, indeed, lie could louse alluded to
it consistently with parliamentary usage, would be
so engrossed by selfish concerns. as to be incapa-
citated from attending. to those of the public.
Bin why did not this rea►ouing hold on former oc-
casions, and how was it that after the accession of
his late Majesty the public business was as dili-
gently attended to. and as industriously dispatched.
as at any other period whatever P He approved of
the conduct of all former Ministers in similar con-
joictures, who bad submitted the consideration of
the settlement or the Civil List to Parliament.
and not to the people, which latter was, in
effect, done by a previous dissolution ; for then
Members of the other (louse would be in-
duced to consult and give ',ledges to their .con-
stituents; and there were suck things as instruc-
lions. But there was one very great difficulty to
the course contemplated. At the commencement
of the late reign, the hereditary revenue had been
appropria►ed to the Consolidated Fund during the
life of'his late Majesty; on his deutiseoto be paid to
his heirs and successors. Now what he was at a

loss to know was, how the deficiency of security
to the public creator from the -termination of that
disposition was to be made tip in the interval till
the aslenibling of the new Parliament ? Tu advert
to that topic had Iwo Ins principle inducement for
standing up, and he thought that if the Noble
Earl (Liverpool) had any method of getting over,
the difficulty he ought to explain it.
The Earl of CARKAILVOIIi said, that he had wait-
ed with some degree of expectation that be should
have received more information than he bad, as the
Noble Earl who introduced the subject alluded to
things which he said were notorious, without giving '
any further explanation of what they were. The
Noble Earl who followed him began by soyiug it
would rest with their Lordships to weigh the con-
veuiesice and inconvenience of the Parliament being
dissolved ; but he withdrew his proposition immo.
diately, and told them they load nothing to do with
it, as it would be interfering with the prerogative of
else Crown. The only argument which had been
advanced in favour of the measure was, that, from
advertisement,' in the public newspapers the Mem-
bers of the other House were busily employed in
addressing their eunstituents, for which reason they
could not attecd to the business of the present Par.
liament. lle would ask their Lordships. waa it ry
-
not a well-kuowu tact, that at the eve of a geueroi
election the Members of the tither House paid
greater attention to their parliementary duties
ilia tit )64 other period ? "Did it not giveart—
cl. .•

as they ._ grant
roughs, on account of the corruption of the t1!-
ton ; and a Bill had been brought in to disfran-
chise one borough, and to remove the franchise to
vase other place. Then what will Isis Majesty's Mi-
■isters base done? By their advice to Isis Majesty
they will have stopped the proceedings in this case;
they had advised their Sovereign to do an °neon.
stitutional rot. to oblige the other Moose to call
upon a borough to return a Member to Parliament,
which was declared by their own m 01104814 to be
incapable of 4111111 K so. At the time it wits intended
the nrw Parliament wee to meet, it was always found
to be one in which it less impossible to keep the
Members together. For these reasons be could not
approve of the Address.
Earl BAIHUNIIT said. he considered the whole
business of the Set was to be done, and every
day the diesolutimi was postponed, was keeping the
tom Parliament from nireinig. It had been asked,
why the same had took been done when George the
First came to the throne? The answer was, that
Queen Anne died in the mouth of August, George
the Firit in June, and George the Second in Or.
Sober. when all the business of the Session was
complete, which made a wide difference whets com-
pared to the present ;missal. From the day of the
death of his late Majesty, greater agitation had
taken place respecting electiwas than ever lied been
at any other time—for 011 the very day of his death
an advertisement appeared front ass lion. Member
of the oilier !loose, chit ;;; it ig the suffrages of a
county. Ile would leave it to their Lordships to
determine whether it would tint be for the benefit
of
the country that a dissolution should take place
without delay.
Lord KIN. said, a Noble Earl had talked of
couvrsirucrr and inconvenience•, and told them
they had to weigh theist : lie would do so. It
would be forty days alter a fortnight before they
could have a new Parliament, which wutild bring
it 11110 the mouth of May before they could meet.
It had been always usual, oil the demise of the
Crown, fur Parliameot, its a short time afterwards,
to go tutu Ili, Civil List, which wee always consi-
dered resp-ctfal to the Crown. He was at a lose
to know how the Crown was to be supported until
the Parliament met. Was it to be by its here-
ditary property ? Fur sr it was, it would be found
very iiissofficient, as lie believed it to be very small,
the greater pot of the property of the Crown being
furnished by a vote of Parliament.
The Loan 0W1011.1.011 amid, the Noble Mar-
quis who first made the opposition to the Address
told them tint; were doing what was uneonstitu-
'tonal by interfering with the prerogative of the
Crown. That was not his view of the question, for
by the ancient law the dissolution was to take
place immediately on the demise of the Crown ;
when Site Act was enacted that it should nut take
place until six mantles after, it did sot mean that
it should sit the whole of that time, but while they
sat they were to do their duty; if it was otherwise
that Act wonlil have interfered with the preroga-
tive of the Crown. The only question ►hey laud to
consider now was, how the public cutivenienco
could be best served, whether by entering ou
public business now o► in the new Parliament ?
They were nut now debating whether the Crown
should or should not dioolve the Parliaments but
whether they should or should not throw such
obstacles in the way that the Crown could not
dissolve it ?
The Marquis of LANSDOWX said, lie did not
rise fu► the purpose of prolonging the debate, but
merely to ask a quest t of the Noble Earl oppo-
site; Whether there was any temporary measure to
be proposed iu the present Parliament relative to
the Civil List ?
- The Earl of Ltvgaroot. arid he could not ass.
InVer whether such a measure would or not be sub.
witted to the other House, but if there was not, lie
was eel tab' is, inconvenience could arise from it.

Tlw Addreis tees then •greed to.—adjourned
till illuilday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, Filial:AßT IS.

-

NEW 31 EN MRS.

The &FRASERtoA the Char at hell:past three
o'clock, and several Members advanced to the
table, and took the oaths. Among than we ob.
served Sir Robert l'eel, Sir John Stewart, Viscount
Jocelyn, Lord Lowther, Lord James Stewart, Mr.
Strut', Lord Apsley. Sir William Curtis, Lord
Vaßoort, Lord Bective, &c. &c.
INSOLVENT DEBTORS' ACT.
Sir W. Cuturre presented a Petition from the
Debtors confined in the New Prison, Whitecrose.
street, praying fur a renewal of the present luso!.
veut Debtors' Act:. ThiiLou was laid on the
table, . .
Mr. ABEECEONIBY rose to prevent a Petition from
the Debtors confined in the King's Bench Prison,
praying fur a continuance of the present Insolvent
Debtors' Act, which will expire an the e2d inst.
until some more permanent measure were adopted
upon this subject. tie confessed that the argu-
ments used in this Petition for the continuance of
the present Act until some more permanent mea-
sure were adopted, appeared to him very forcible.
The Legislature was, he thought, bound to take
care that the principle of the present measure
should not be abruptly •bancloneil, as it would be
if the Act were altogether discontinued. Tke
principle had lung been recognised by the Legisla.
ture, and .he thought they were bound to give it
effect, so far min was predicable.
The Petition was then brought up, and on the
motion that it do he on the table—
The CHANCELLOR of the EICHFIVER said, that
whatever might be the ultimate decision of Parlia-
ment. *Pith respect to the future arrangements', to
give affect to the praNciple of the Bill, he thought
there could be no objection 10 an intermediate
measure in continuity of the present nue. lie was
one of the., who was originally friendly to the
principle of the Bill, and who was most anxious
that it elitield, in every way. receive the fullest dis-
cussion. Bring of-this opiniois, he thanked the

continuing the old Act for the present, would he
the most advisable course.
Lord ALTroir thanked the Right Honourable
Gentleman for the compliment he had paid him in
attaching any importance to his effort. no this sub-
ject, but he was sorry to differ with the Right Hon.
Gentleman in hi. view of the immediate course
cinch it was expedient to take. He thought it would
be much better to begin a new Bill altogether than
to alter or modify the old to meet the temporary
necessity. To build a new measure upon the basis
of the old would. he thought, have rather no Op.
;martinet of severity then one of suitigetion; he wise,
therefore, most noxious that they should begin
de novo. Eistertaining this opinion, he would re.
titer the present Act should be suffered to expire,
and a new one substituted in its place.
The Petition was laid on the table. •
Sir W.. DS CRIUIPIONT Me to preirint a Peel.
Lion from • respecleble tradesmen in the parish of
Newington, who had discovered that a most tale's-
sive Iraud had been practised by a person who had
the collection of some rates, as en assessor and col-
lector of taxes. The individual who had been
guilty of this official peculation had been originally
fi plane-maker; lie was now, a gentleman of several
thousands of pound* a year; he kept two hooks,
one the King's book, which *as fur the office in
Somerset House, and the other • private book.
containing an entry of his private speculations, sod
of his nefarious practices in disposing of the public
plunder. The Petitiener prayed that the House
would give him relief, and remunerate him far the
expense he had incurred in bringing this mints. to
light.
The SMILES inquired whether the Petition was
for a grant of money ' if so, it must have the C 011•
current., of the Croats.

Sir %VIC DE CaasetosT replied, that the Peti•
tionrr made Isis claim by ‘irtne of the provisions
of an Act of Parliament.

The CHANCELLOIL of the EXCHEQUICII *aid. the
Petition had not the recommendation of the Crown.

The SPEAKER, on reading the prayer of the
Petition, ,aid the words were " for relief and jos.
tice." It not being, therefore, distinctly fur a
grant of money, there was no formal objection to
its reception.
The Petition was then read, and ordered to lie
on the table.

I

• •

situation of the wintry and that in which it
0„ a former omelets, when • similar Clllllllllify
pierced Wel the country. The recent de.
of the Crown look place during in interval
ijournrnent, at the opening of the Session,
• great mess of public business had
entered into. Oii the former occ4.
inch • melancholy event occurred, the
business was not no a similar situation. to
.m a state, so di-similar to the precediug one, it
naturally occurred to his Majesty's Minister, to
consider what measures it was incnotbent op"
them to ',smote for the promotion of the p„1,1,,
service. When his Majesty's Ministers considered
this initiation of things, they felt that only tv.,
courses were open fur them to pursue—either to let
the existing Parliament go through the whole or
their business liable to the interruption to which
they were exposed by the operation of the law re-
quiring a dissolution within • limited unto ow
tile demise of the Crown. or else to call a new
Pee liansest the least possible delay, troy.
nig to the oily Parliattieot so called, the duty
of forwarding the whole of the public busier...
Ills Majesty's Minister.. no a full consideration of
the whole subj:ct, were of opinion that the leiter
would be the more advisable coarse in die pre...14
situation of public business; they felt that they
must either recommend • continuance of the pre.
sent Parliament, subject to the chance of being in-
terrupted in their proceedings by the °pennon', of
the law within six months. or at once 1111111 V cell.
iisg a new one, to meet as soon as possible fit the
dispatch of the whole of the public hostile...
After the most mature investigation, it was dermal
the more advisable course to summon a new lA.?.
!lament. Weed it is obvious that the full boss.
. ores of Parliament could not he discussed with
that gravity and mature consideration which
ought to be afforded to it. cliscesssion in the state
of the present Pediment. 1 bier no difficult, in
seating. that no situation can he less drivable fee
the con sideration of public business. either for the

morals of the people, or. I have reason Hooey, for
their tranquillity. than one in which Members may
be called upon to attend their duty in Peilimarot
on the eve of a general election, when passions we
heated; and particilar interests kept actively Av.-,
often for personal ;surpasses. I cannot see any situ.
ation less likely to afford an opportunity of snowy
discussions or our, on Ike whole. less calculahol
to promote the public good on a broad and wen..
sive scale. We think it therefore advisehle to .ups.
lust the business or the country to * new se
meld, and we have made this recomineollattott to
the bound exercise of the sound di.erettoti which
we were bobs's' to exercise. lam perfectly aware
that it is usual on the demise of the Cintsls. to
provide for a great portion of the Civil Li.t.
and it is of course the wish of Min suers so Who
the strictest precedents. Looking, however, al I
have already said, •t the stale of parlianwitt.oy
business, mid at the probable time which would he
occupied in the consideration of the getieral ad. i s
of
the country, we think it better dim that ossloyecte
like others, should stand over fur the con.itheration
of a future Parliament. Nothing would. be none
awkward than so to divide that *abject as to give it
■ consideration (sow, which would interfere with the
other business that must be disposer' of, sod Ilse
general errangement of the whole. It is impossible
that reach topics can now Im brought forward iso as
to britig Gentlemen's winds to a cello rosiotterstion
of them in • full atteodessce, in ouch a luebstmer a.
to give satiefectiou to the country at large. We
have therefore advised his Majesty in his swim') to
exercise his prerogative of dissolving Parliaiswitt.-
11aving stated thus far, I shall now give ass °white
of the preparatary steps whirls we mein to rreutts•
mend during the sitting of the present Parliameto.
With respect to private bonnets., we mean to re.
iiiiii rood a rep etsisuis of the course adopted on a
former dissolution. 'tensely, that 11w Dew PA. hag.
meta shill take sip the iwnsling private Ista.sse..4
of tlw old, in the stage in which it was left by their
predecessors. This will obviate the toconvenience
to "udi individuals might otherwise be reposed—
their private interests combat dwrefore be effected
by 51 e dissolution. As to public hussitor., at
see noxious it shall be equally taken up esscdv rn
the situation in which Parliameot may have le. ft it
before the disoolut 00000 . We do not lil no.
pose any sew Army E•tintates--[Lord Pshnerstou
lwre whispered to the Noble 1.....r.1] —except foe
souse woad' contingencies. There would be no
new F:stimares.e It would, of COMM'. be advisable
to continue die Mutiny Hill nista the tistls of
Jour next, and to continue until the mow pr..
rood such measures as were now in existence,
and recognised by the present Parliament. This
is the Kriteria' view or outline taken by Ins Ma-
jesty's Ministers. of the course which they
deem it advisable to pursue in the existing souse of '
public business. It is hoped that ieniporory
ouches the exigency requires, may be' reputed Isy
tlw end of tlw present month. By adopting this
course, the peewit Parliminent may be sli.waleetl
shout the lot id March, still as new one comeeasett
about the itnli or April. Though this. *wadi
he a comparative late permit for the dispasecla of
bussioesv, yet mill he hoped it would give 101 l nano
for the cousideration of such subjects as Parrisse
noes,* ill its *sad sissy deem it expedient to ie..
truelove." The Mottle Lord then concluded by
an Address table Maj. sty, in the saute kris... s. that
assayed lii the (louse of Peers—/fur ',hick see
Lords' report).
As sums a' the motion was read from the Chair,
Mr. Ttuan EY rose and spoke nearly is follow.:
" I du Hot know that I ever felt myself in such a
nom as I now do with respect to the comae
which 1 ought to tongue. I have nothisse to saver
by ; I am left in the dark, soil within s eisigle lay
of light to direct any yudgestesst. The Noble Lon'
gives is. eau reason Ili Ilia *odd why we nu, ta gout at
the plellellt 1114tairlit to consider at least Nom past
of the public bustuesswelm tells us, indeed, that
She lot of Match will be a convenient day fur such
• purpose. but why the present is wit, he has not
cot descended to gives us any saitelectory tearuit.
This ra the first lime since the 'Revolution that the
House has bat% placed in such a situation open 4
new memento. In all prelim's eases we have had
1.
• Oprteti frOrn the throne by the new Kong.
teloping his views of public policy. and expliounit
the course which in his window he thought ;
most admissible to porsor. The oily Using we
hem the Noble-Lord iliat it would be totrtinehr4
etrovenitht tint as &sold be aktedily lAA abutit

. . ,
. t
....,t_• • • g . i,
lest qsaitlas, wlasilre ih dim nail ~ tents~ is Majost?s 1 ' (All4.orp) "At tles4shp‘,o legitiohisb sent situalla
through the robin through 1111 Aber.. r IMO ler a ~.„,
..„...„ .
.10
.s • the matte, u'ilitslakto sionsideeithlo of stood on a f
~.
posed to the inesosia if ea ....,rui,..4 meat t . 41,4,4 _4o es,* and ,fift,tlitijltilli6 Ils lisitk,olnilpses to the prem.
Natalia's% go aos4- foe Up el
~ oast 1. .• . . /MM. VP ' the su'lrjeet' *odor their' lion se- mise of the
/R
au,
▪ As is. thellped,,,,S. mii . l'i, , coneeskut tor the -,, . tiite deli tion. lie assured Ilse Horse. that this of adjourn'
mind. that thOtaireser was Sties* when . '' t noted with AM* Ile tome why they del subject had not escaped the consideration of his , and when i
was nista asimily. eagspd is the aosaidoraitias . parted inns tpraprearessar -winch they hod_ set Majesty's Minister*, Mill that they infra' equally ~ not been
.f grass inelliipititant questions, both civil sad done. There were stopig conbtstational grams& anxious with the Noble Lord it should hare the pion. when
judicioss; sod the greater part of these, per. why it should not tie disiolsed in the other House. I fulle.t and most mature consideration. Under all , public husi
haps the whole, it would be impossible to bring as they had refused to grant writs for three bo- i the circumstances, he thought* temporary niessurr, 1 inch a state
. . .... :-.....r •1.........._ t ..,.. .. : .... i..• .h. AIA Ari Cs, tko tareem..., sit..ea Id km ...1....161 .