The National Register.
London, England, 1816-04-08 00:00:00

THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

a general regulation, as far ac possible for the management of
the poor. .Another was to prevent the farming out of the poqr.
A third was to prevent children being hoand apprent.ces to
the ina,ters of the pour-itonses ; and a fourth to prevent pat:pi IN
being imprisoned and kept in chains. He trusted, that all thrse
objects would h.! effected by his Hon. Friend's bill, not only as
related to Lincoln, but to every poor-house in the kingdom.
He should vriggest the propriety of making the imprisonment
of paupers by masters and governors of poor-houses a ntisde•
mernour, and that the utF.nceglsoulti extend to overseers and
other parish officers who connived at it.
Sir F Bntucks was in favour of the bill.

The Bill was read A first, and ordered to be read a second

Mr. Suane presented a petition from the importers and
dealers in foreign wines, and praying relief from the duties.
Mr. VATViITTART said,a deputation of the persons coarerned
in the wine trade had waited on him, and urged the necessity
of a reduction in the duties on wine; he then stated to them,
that ender the circumstances of the enantry he could not anti-
cipate any reduction in the ditties on a NMI ry which had been
a productive source of reroute; and further, that if any re-
duction Of duties could take place on any articles, it would be
on articles necessary to the lower dais of socinly.---(11Lor.)
Sir M. RIDLEY moved for a Copy of any contract which
might exist for serving the table for the guards at St. James's,
and the names of the persons attending there.
Mr. VANSITTART said, it was 111111PeCCAary. The officers
were to have a compensation, and the table be doge away.—
( Heart hear.)
EXCISE AND CUSTOMS.
Mr. Ilanentatst moved, that an Act of the 3 till of the King,
relative to the (Instants and Excise, should be entered as read,
which was A inoe. _

Mr. Botounita NI then me to bring forward a motion which
concerned every commercial snarl, and. inds&d, every isidivi •
dual in the eon 'ry, inaanitich as it concerned the cmistitation
of the country. In bringing forward this motion, it would be
necessary for him to advert to what hail been the state of the
law as related to the Customs and Excise duties of the country,
which in a time of peace, amounted to 33 millions, and in
time of war, 43 millions. Formerly all the business of this
branch of the revenue rested with the !mania Of CIISV/lIIS and
Excise, the alemhers of which held their situations during life
or good behaviour. Formerly also these boards had the con-
trol,' over all cases of offences committed by persons against
this branch of the revenue laws, and the consideration of cases
arising out of these laws, which till four of our statute books,
occupied a very consider:o9le portion of the time of the Com-
missioners ; and it was afterwards found necessary to give his
Majesty's Attorney General a power of stopping proceedings
and restoring seizures made under the laws; but this could
only be done pending proceedings, and in cases where there
was a proof that no intention to defraud existed, or where the
fraud arose from mistake; and these powers did not extend to
any ca-es of breach of the navigation laws. With these regula-
tions, which excluded all political or ministerial interference, the
laws existed till July, 1814, when the Act which had just been
read was passed. and which, lie contended, changed at mice
the constitution of the country. 'the first provision of this
Act gave a power of restoration aft r coudeninatioo ; the
second set aside the question of whether with good intention
or fraudulent design; and the third provision did away all
consideration of the navigation laws; and, in hart, transferred
a dispensing power over a branch of revenue amounting to .ta
millions annually from the unpolitical, mimlnisterial Boards of
Excise and Gaston's, to the Ministerial Board of 'treasure.
After mentioning the precipitate manner in wh!ch the Bill he
condemned was introduced, and the lateness of the time, (viz.
the lath July,) lie trusted the House would now acetate to
hie motion for enquiry into the several eases which he would
stare. The first case was that of Mr. Bailey, a isoinmoil
brewer, in which a verdict had been taken, by consent, tin.
4001. Tim first attempt made to Oct t id of this verdict, was a
memorial presented to Mr. Arbuthnot, et' the Treasury, from
Lard Westmoreland, desiring that the l'ilfe might lie considered
by the 'treasury. The case and memorial were upon this
referred to the Commissioners of Excise. Mr. Brougham pro-
ceeded to read other letters from the memorialist to Lord
Westi iiiii land, acknowledging the kind attention of his Lord-
Shia, and expressive of gratitude. Mr. 11. observed, he was
not at liberty Isere to advert to the connection which there
was between Lord Westmoreland and Mr. Bailey, and the
Borough of Lyme Regis. 'the Board of Excise, however.
reported that this was a case which might not to he taken out
of the coarse of law. Ater having referred it back four (hors
to the Board of noise, the Treasury adopted the report, but
not till a delay of 13 months had been given to Mr. Bailey,
which delay arising from Mr. Bailey having a fricnd at Court,
was the neat good to having the tine remitted. The next case
was that of Mr. J. Abbot, of Canterbury, AA fin hail been con-
victed of using vitriol, tenissia, and other deleterious drugs in
brewing his tierter. The ease, the Hon. Men:ber said, was
fully tipsy:sit, but memorials were presented, stating that Mr.
Abbott was ignorant of such materials being on his promises ;
and memorials to character of the liiieuest de•criptiou. signed
by Mr. Marriott, Sir E. linaclibull, amid sir 11. Ctir; is, all
Nietithers; mid also higli testimonials to character f!-oni Mr,
Baker, Member for t'ateterhory ; tied from the Reverend and
respectable Dean of Canterbury. The consequent effect of
these test:monials was. that the proceeilimpr were misprinted,
and the e Asc. with lilt' t^atinunuials, we re referred to the Com-
laiSSiOllCl's of Excise. nlio reported upon the ease that it teas
tune of the most Imp avated, and that it was one wbicb, unl.ais
the latrils of the Treasury shottlil cite positive carders to the
Funtrary, They should feel it their duty to proceed in. This
' was the ileciaion of the Ixeise. The Treaatiry, how( ver,
ordered the fur her promaolings to be staid, on Mr. Abbott's
prying a tine of 31141 es polices. tierces had the case
1111'11 proceeded its, the tievirliie, would Lave amounted to
911001. It would, perhaps, lie said that Mr. Abbott WAS only
legnity guilty, and that he had no knowledge—Char, fiche, ji•ons
the l hu,,ceVor qf the Excheptee h —tie was glad to hear this
cheer, ant: he wished it might he acted upaii in other eases as
well as tbme of Exmse. lie wiatied it might lie extended to
libels. Here the. Hon. Men. her adverted to several eves of
pi-laden; mid pot ilishers %vim hail beets lined, although it WAS
proved they were ignorant of the publication having taken
place ant their premises. Judges ill therm cases had always
liehl that ignorance was no eacose fur the dissemination of
poison amongst his Nlajesty's subjects. 'flue Hot,. Member
next otlvottcul to the case of Wolfe Ili njimin, a scap-osaantae•
taper, at Leigh, in Essex. Here Mr. Beniainiii obtainml testi
monists fioni Mr. limit:don, Mr. Stroh, and Mr. %
estrnyall
Members-tit this HOIIXt. and in the teeth of the report of the
s:ommissioners of Excise, the tines were remitted. The next
ce,.• was that of J. Gipps, who lid contravened the salt LAW!,
11114 ligniti.t whom judgment was emend up Gtr tiatli. A me-
tutorial was presented, and a strsng testimonial Iron' certain
biliabi; ants iff the county of i4outlaioirttai, represented
(bat he lial.long !wen distinguished for his loyalty nail zeal fir
bis Majeaty gorerautcut ; tend that Le had always stood•forth,

oreigl'itilSdiCjel:ify'talleTlyttr%l:l:leseut.PlN''flaiet ufltti.s'etittareitiMisi iamadtii mtsecalls:.r.et.
in
of the
rs, who
Inalai7svot the
t tuotis'a tpiteas ere 1:11:4'4"i
tuks.niddr., 12shila:ttlf. tthhoeuayet,
y tic full penalty. lie
of
iti.snt.3oye. Gentleman idseA,
.ircat
rmrkihertsla
:Oat
asee tease of Use most
~
hr +could ask, ought tae
the;l.
Indeed in the breast it'd heard, sit bjeet to ;edit ieat
feelings Hell erejuilicee? Neither, in his opinion, ought it to
lodge wills the Bond of Excise; who, in the (Recharge of their
duties, might be too prone to enforce lines; but in some nide.
pendent (inarter a power of review ought to ekiet. Where it
should 1w lodged, he was not called on to see. If he conld
prove that the Board of Treasury hod, in the case of John
Gipps, prostitsita ti the poweis of the Act to polit:cei mobs CII,
he submitted he hail made out a ease of prima feria evidence,
and for further enquiry. The Hon. Member then concluded
by moving a Resolntion to that effect.
Mr. VA NsiTTAitT said if the Hen. Gentleman lyd at all made
out his case, I.e might, instead of censure, have Mot til for ins-
peaelenent of his Majesty's Mitikt.rs. The fact was, however,
that I.e had made out nothing more than a case of merry on the
part of the Crown. With respect to the state of the law, as
laid down by the Hon. Gentleman, he was wrong in es ere
point. 'the Board of Eseive had always been dependent to
the Crowe, and received directitee from the 'Freasury Board,
which had always the power of utAisito, of tines and pen,dt;,.„,
and the Hew Act only gave a snore summary power to the
Board of Treasury, which, before the passing of the Act of
the 54th of the King, exercised the same power through the
med. of the Attorney-Generul. With respect to the cases
which the lion. Gentleman had cited, only two were cases in
which proceedings lied been carried ou to conviction, and
therefore, on the others there could lie no doubt the Treasury
had the power of remission. The Hou. Gentleman had moved
for twenty-nine cases, out of which he had selected six on,
which to foun I his charge, but he now seemed inclined to
abandon all except one—that of Gipps. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman then entered into a review of this particular case, and
observed, that there has been a singular negligence on the
part of the Board of Excise, who had not laid the only docu-
ments which gas e a tinge to the case before the Board of a'ets-
sury, and the memorial not only gave Gipps a character fur
loyalty, hut also for fair dealing; and the Treasury certainly
considered a tine of 20W. added to costs, amounting 3001. usury,
was p "shment sufficient for such an offence as Gipps was
charged with. The Right Hon Gentleman then proceeded to
comment on the other cases, and contended that the pmaish-
meets had been fairly apportioned to each offence.—All the
indulgence which had been extended to Davy was, a delay of
two months allowed to pay the tine its after the proceedings had
terminated. In Mr. Abbott's caw, it was allowed by the Hon.
Gentleman that Mr. Abbott was ignorant of the offence being
committed, and it could not be said that he had been very leni-
ently treated, when it was considered that it was only on imme-
diate payment of a tine of SOW. anti all costs, that proceedings
against him were suspended. The Right Hon. Gentlemen con-
cluded by moving, as an Amendment, the previous question.
Sir S.Ron ILLY, Mr. TIERNEY, and Mr.Postsoenv could see
no grounds on which the penalties inGippse; ease were remitted,
except that lie was a zealous supporter of the measures and the
friends of Government.
Lord CASTLEREAGH, Mr. LUSHINGTON, the SOLICITOR Or.
!SERA', Mr. SMITH, and Mr. PROTIUM° supported the
Amendment; the House divided—For the original Motion 40
—For the Amendment 121—Majority against the Motion 134.-se
Adjourned at Halt Past Two.
WEDNESDAY, APRIL S.
i.ord G. L. Gower presented a petition from Stafford, praY-
Mg a reduction in the Military and Naval Establishment, ge-
nerel economy, relief of the agricultural interest, he.
Sir 11. PERLE moved for an inquiry into the present mode of
employing children in cotton manufactories. The Hon. Mean.
berg otter adverting to the manner in which children were for-
mert! employed in these manufactoriee• said, he had last year
brought in a Bill for regitlatiug the employment of apprentices,
which had been productive of the happiest effects: Lis pre.
sent object would, it adopted. provide that children should be
taught to read and write; and that those under ten years of
age should net be employed in the manufactories, nor should
they be employed more than 13 hours in the day. The Hoare
would perhaps he surprised to learn, that in some instances,
children under this age, were employed lo or 17 boon in the
day. 'These children were, in fact, the riches of the country;
without them, the various nsachinery employed by us would be
useless, and even mischievous. The Hon. Bart. concluded by
moving for the appointment of a Committee to enquire into the
state of the children employed in the manufactories in the king-
dom, and to report to the House thereupon.
Mr. Ft s nee y wished that the Hon. Baronet', censnreshbuld
be confined to particular instances, and not be uttered as ap-
plying generally. He (Mr. F.) had never known any instance
in which children, of the age meutioued by the Hon. Baronet,
had been dragged front their beds in the morning, and ens.
skived In or 11 hours in the day. In all cases of which he lied
I
cur knowledge, proprietors of manufactories had been anxious
and to employ children under 10 years of age, and in no case
within his knowledge had children been employed more than
1.1 hours out of I. His Hon. Friend, now lie was 41120111 to ri
tine groin business, was proposine a measure which, in its ef-
fect, weed to cahnimiate the manufacturers of the country.
Sir R. PEALE could not but consider the insinuation of his
Hon. Friend against hint as unfinnitled ; he guarded himsel'
against ally intended censure its the manufactories generally,
as beimg himself about to retire from business; Ite 12 years
atro proposed a 11111 to the UDR! Cllt.l:t as that which he broite;ht
in last StsAitill.
Mr. Lerft.ETON, Mr. CtICRTNEY, and Nit. Crewe e, paida
due tribute of epidemic to the Hon. Ituronet and Isis humaite
havemotive when the necessary investigatious
should g;a t
te hv
taken ‘l7lltU tints '
plait' before the Comeau. r, they were per-
suaded it would be found that very few instances of abuse ex-.
Weil on this subject.
After some further observations room Mr. Goenow, Mr.
WROITI:SLEY, and ethers; the motion was agreed to.
The Bill for seeming the Purity of Electieu in the Borough
of lielslOßC was read a screed time, an I CO1111111( 4.4 l'Or Moe-
day fortnight.
TIIE. POLICE Or THE mrritorous.
Mr. BEAN ETT„ltitt!oitaHl 10 notice, brought forwar4 his mo-
tion for a Committee to enquire into the state of the -Police of
the Nletiopotie. I:timeline es, the Hon. Pent. obseteed, had
'men alyointeel nn the subject more than °nee. 'flue ;get Com-
mittee set in lel e, when the metropolis tens in a sure of alarm
on sweetest of the soclancholy'snitrde:- of the Marrs ; brit the la-
Lours of that Commttee, the I Gent. said, lied produced
moth tig. He then proceeded to hike a review of the state of
the Police at present, and which he contended was Metticient.
Ile particularly alluded to the sysit met is lug a reward of
401. for the I'l)l4om:stun and coneiellun of capital offenders;

r•

•.shiist ei ion sof inn.. lor *welt, the detection of ta hick re-
eeiveil no reward, note • tittered to go on, till the offender, in-
creasing n nee a, d hardihood, proceeded till Ids et late at
tained sii..ll a Ili.ogn omit., as made his pat 5.11 north looking
eft( r. tt as via ri at evil of the tysteut. Ano her evil
was, the esisti eof a numb' rof houses, t alit d fia h houses,
to %%Web Ili. se, resorted, and of sr Welt acre wet e upwards
et' 100 wet of Temple Bar, all %sell known to the l'oliae 0111-
errs. Another gie .t evil was, he belies d, the nutuher of penal
oftences, more than 6700, which stood in our statute book, and
which, from their immenee number, fteinently induced Judges
and Julies in their mercy—the offences being trivial—to allots
the offen4cs sto escape altogether. Another evil was the great
expend' attending pritseetitihg in crii ll ill eases : which, it ap-
peared, in the course of last year hail cost time public above
rio,uool. There was also another great and crying evil, and
that was, that in our prisons there aas no classitieati,in of
crimes ; Out the great and the trifling—the yontig and the har-
dened offender against the laws—wet e confined together. The
Hon. Gent. considered the system of transportation as one
great evil. Offenders were sent to the hulks, from obit+, at
the expiration of their sentences, they were turned upon the
public with worse morals titan at the time of their punishment
commencing. So with respect to persona returoing um trans-
portation, he had heard it asserted, that no person et er re-
turned from transrortation Was was not either hanged after-
wards, or continued to range about town, committing depreda-
tions on the public. He concluded by moving for the appoint-
twat of a Committee to enquire into the prestmt state of the
Police of the country.
Mr. II Amuse:TUN could not sue the necessi'y for a Select
Committee, as no ;pound of complaint hail been laid against
the Magistrates for a dereliction of their duty. His Nob,e Re-
lation (Lord Sidnioutli) assembled the Magistrates on the first
day of every ruontli.attbe Office of the Home Department. They
wet yesterday, as astral, and they declared that they 'wit,.
knew-the Metropolis more tranquil. They also exyressed their
surprise that it was so, became the restoration in Peace had
thrown cacti a number of rersons out of employ. With re-
spect to the increase of youthful depravity, he was sorry to
state the fact was so; but the Penitentiary-luoise was in a state
of being very soon finished; that deseriptihn el confinement
was, best calculated to punish, and at the saute time reform,
this species of juvenile depredators.
The Motion was then agreed to and a Committee appointed.