The Sun.
London, England, 1855-06-19 00:00:00

" THE HOSPITALS AT SCUTARI.

" When the army arrived in the E Let various places
were suggested for hospitals, but Scutari was eventually
decided upon as the fittest for the purpose.
" The sytseta of regimental hospitals was adopted in the
first instance, and the general hospital was not established
until the army moved to Varna.
" The Duke of Newcastle says that he did not issue any
instructions as to hospitals; he left that to be executed
by the medical board. Di. Smith, the director general of
the medical department of the army, says that he hail
nothing to do with these hospitals, and that his interfer-
ence could only have caused confusion. He selected medical
men for the hospitals, and he sent to the Ordnance araqui-
sit!on to provide hospital furniture proportioned to the
amount of force, and there his duties ended.
" Your committee, after hearing evidence affirming the
disgraceful state of the hospitals at Scutari, endeavotired
to ascertain by whom the chief authority was exercised,
and on whom the responsibility must rest.
Major Sillery was commandant, and had sole military
chargesof all the hospitals. Dr. Menzies was superiuten-
deut of all the hospitals, having immediate charge of the
Turkish Hospital, with Dr. M'Gregor under his orders, in
charge of the Barrack Hospital. Dr. Menzies was ap-
pointed by Lord Raglan, on the recommendation of Dr.
Dutnbreck and Dr. Hall, and remained superintendent
from the 26th of June, 1854, to the 2d of January, . 1855.
He alleges that during a portion of this time he was placed
in an arionidlcius position, by the arrival, on the 4th of
_November, of Dr. Cumming, his superior officer, who bad
been sent from England as member of the commission of
inquiry, and to supersede him in his office when the in-
quiry of that commission had been brought to a close.
" When the expedition sailed for the Crimea Major
Sillery gave instructions to Dr. Menzies, in pursuance, it
is said, of directions through Rear-Admiral Boxer, from
the Duke of Newcastle, repeated by Lieut.-General Sir
George Brown, to report on the accommodation that could
be provided in the hospitals for the sick and wounded who
might be expected from the first operations of the army ;
Dr. Menzies' report, dated the 7th of August, will be found
in the evidence.. Dr. Menzies in this report impresses on
the local military authorities, as Dr. A. Smith had before
done in his letter to the military secretary at the Horse
Guards, the mcessity of providing fit transports for the
conveyance of the sick and

" Dr. Hall, the inspector-general of the army, was sent
by Lord Raglan to inspect the hospitals in October. He
remained at Scutary about three weeks, and then reported
them ' to be in as good a state as could be reasonably ex-
-pected.' Dr. Menzies reported periodically to Dr. Hall,
as his official chief. Dr. Menzies, although concurring in
the opinion of Dr. Hall, appearb'subsequently to have
made several appeals to the .dbinnialidaht and to the pur-
veyor for means of improving the condition of the hospi-
tals ; but either no measures, or no efficient and adequate
measures, seem to have been adopted for the purpose.
"In justice to Dr. Menzies it must be admitted that he
was engaged in incessant and onerous duties. He was con-
sulted in all difficult surgical cases—ho performed the must •
serious operations himself. His time was occupied in in-
validing men, holding boards, making monthly returns and
quarterly returns, daily reports and weekly reports; reports
to Dr. Hall, who was satisfied with the hospitals ;• reports
to Dr. Smith, who could nut interfere ; reports to the
Duke of Newcastle, who was never informed of the real
state of things. Amid all these labours he had nq time
left for that-which should have been his principal duty—
the proper superintendence of these hospitals.
" Dr. Menzies_ states ' that he was overwhelmed by the
work of the three deputy inspectors whea he gave up his
charge,' his health being then broken down.' rhis state-
ment is confirmed by Dr. Dumbreck, who, having heard
Dr. Menzies' evidence, saysP the clashing of respondbility
and Confusion that existed in the administration of the
hospita s was not creditable to our system ; we seem to
have fallen' into a state of inanition ; we had no purveyors,
no orderlies, no hospitel corps. Dr. Menzies I believe to
have been clearly overworked, and pot in a position no
man was able to cope with.'
"The duties of Dr. Menzies was further obstructed by a
conflict of authority with the purveyor, wbo claimed to act
independently, under the instructions of the Secretary at
War. When one purveyor had been pronounced by a -me-
dical board unfit for the active duties of his office, and was
about to be removed; he was retained in this responeible
situation by superior authority. All 'doubt as to the pitho-
rity of the purveyor would have been removed by proper
instructions from the Secretary at War. .These were rot,
however, sent until the 14th of November. •
"Your committe oust declareit to bo their opinion that
blame attaches to Dr. Menzies, inasmuch as he did not
report correctly the circumstances of the 11;,31,ital ; he
stated that he wanted nothing in the shape of stores or
medical conafortsat the time when his patients were desti•
tut!) of the commonest necessaries. • _ _

"With this confirmation by Dr. Dumbreck, deputy;
inspector-general of hospitals, of the whole testimony 're-
lciting to this painful subject, your committee are totally
at a loss to comprehend the report of Dr. Hall, more espe-
cially with regard to the Barrack Hospital, the scene of so
much misery and suffering. The Duke of Newcastle states
• that the disgraceful condition of the hospitals was fist
brought under his notice in the middle of October.' - Dr.
Hall was at Scutari from the 3.1 to the 23d of that'inonth.
Dr. Hall's report seems to have misled' both Lord Raglan
and the Government at home, and to have occasioned
much delay in measures taken afterwards for the remedy
of the evils, which might have been arrested eat Tier iu
their- progress: • -
"The office of purveyor had been, with four exceptions,
discontinued for many years, and there was difficulty in
findiug a person competent to perform these duties. .vThe
selection of Mr. Ward for this post was not fortunate ;
among other proofs Of his unfitness, it appears that when
an inquiry was instituted into the amount of tho purvey-
or's stores, no account could be! produced of any stores
later than the end of-August. When it is remembered
that the insuffiSiency of these stores was a source of much
suffering, if not of more fatal results', it must be observed
that heavy (responsibility attaches to the commander-in-
chief of the forces, who, acting on the representation of
the quartermaster-general, retained Mr. Ward in his office
after he had been pronounced unfit to discharge its duties.
The Secretary at War Lad said, ' There can be no objec-
tion to try Mr. Ward, as I will promise, if he is not effi.-
chant, we will remove him.' When, however, the appoint-
ment had been made the commander of the forces had the
sole authority, and overruled the decision of the medical
board. The appointment of Mr. Wreford, who was sent out
as purveyor in chief, did not remove those difficulties,
The distinct duties of Mr.• Wreford and Mr.
were not understood by these officers, and the conf.usstohne
was increased by new uncertainty. Mr. Maxs wlll'haN„
commissioner, who was, sent to inquire, seem
returned undecided in opinion as to which hese two
officsrs was answerable for the supply of stores.
w
" The apothecary's department et Scutarii
in
better condition. His store was the •geerA
thes
was
notne
n
only for the hospitals. but for the army in depot yet
he had no account of his stores, and
under what
November. Your committee are not w 2
in his books from the 11th of September tn.crtiheeae2Betnhtroyf
r:ject
icnat War
Secretaryof duty. instructions he was acting ; but the latcaeie
admits that such conduct we Ss
Government
stores,
since
chea 11
Mr. been
s:
It is, moreover, manifest thats s.thsi
deceived in regard to these hospital
Chef u g h There
f o r e Herbert had stated in Houseof forms
have been all manner tbe of Commons,
thst they never could be pro-
these stores could be issued. With plenty materials,
the forms were so cumbrousnecessary for the purposes of a
now proved that if there were
tmluiclietiairwyihthostphitearla.philittyis
cumbrous forms incouveniencing the service of the hospi-
tal, and aggravating the sufferings of the patients, there
were at least no forms to protect the public purse against
negligence or peculation. The distress in these hospitals
would have been more severe, and the sufferings more
private charity had tot stepped in to redress
the
Of ocial mismanagement. Assistance which
acute,
eviifieffi m
had
b t
eacbeeesnsen titiiasciofruoragtehde
livesasstrperfluous was eventually found
to
of the patients.
When the quantities of hospital stares which were sent
from England are contrasted with the scarcity, or rather
the absolute dearth of them at Scutari, and when the state
of the purveyor's accounts is remembered, it is impossible
not to harbour a suspicion that some dishonesty has been
practised in regard to these stores. From the returns in
the appendix it appears that before the-24th of July 5,717
bedsteads, 9,000 beds and paillasses, 7,140 complete hospital
dresses, 5,000 linen and flannel shirts, with a full propor-
tion of other articles, and utensils of 11 descriptienas were

ordered by the medical board to be supplied and shippedll
the Board of Ordnance. A committee of the house coda
not efficiently prosecute an investigation into the &sal p 'sr'
ance of these stores, but the subject well deserves the con-
sideration Of the executive government.
"In order to show the dreadful discomfort of the meth
in the neglect on the p iof the authoritiee, it may
sufficient to State that in the Barrack Hospital at Scut!
during the mu: th of November, while there were shall°
2,600 patients in that hospital, the whole number of still
washed was only six. At a later period it is fair to add the
this glaring evil was mitigated.
"Major Snlery, either unprovidcd with spec'al instrii?"
tions for such an emergency, or unacquainted with his
powers and authority as military commandant, enrol.° e
ost
incurhaf
uele6e sTt.
hu
er hospitalsTkri
sel ,'Tore
responsibility
dssuei
abundant
b.
requited
ludi histnydfoooarrfnd
tdet
directing
re e.
oc
ot ifH ntge
hpwr payment
removalay el unp r o v lied
have been completely paralysed in his attemp° govern
staff. Mr. Stafford states that Major Sillery. WO *llllo,,er
that the military officer in command at any stations
general hospitele are established possesses authority to
or
direct expeoditure, and to meet all cases of emergencT _e
" The immediate. measures taken by
necessity beyond those provided for by the esteblisnea
mgehfeonuithtfeto :wet haerevsilwtad
evidence
regulations of the War Office.
home—when the condition of the hospitalths ewaasu'tinholeititergesj;
eater
brought to their knowledge: by the press and bY Prior,
information than it had been by the medical officers
d thein"
the appointment of the commission of inquirY, an .a, plc,
structions to her Majesty's ambassador at Constaaea °on.
which will be found in the appendix. The couirefiet we.,
eider this lest step to have been as injudiciousn a ~ if
-unavailing for the purpose for which it was inte detterioss
the division and uncertainty of responsibility was
serts.eroece
evil, the evil could only he increased by the int
nor
~011.
necticn with our military administrate ei. .
of another authority, having neither relation to '
nateruectainl
to the ambassador to provide on applicatio rao"
eto jai'
supplies for the wants of the hospitals, would seem
„.es 00 the
commandant himself of the powers he
ply that the authorities at home were as little Iva"
commissaries and purveyors. ' with an
" The want of an energetic governing anthori y;
efficient
adequate staff to maintain constant inspectional]: been th
discipline, appears to your committee to baps been ie
chief cause of all the evils; 5000 or 6000 went'l control of
hospital, require the care, superintendence, a
The i
ember is
an-efficient general officer as much as the Barney a
ought c°t
the field. Mr. Herbert says that 'Major Siller;
bis
reili.
to have been left in the command of the hoentf was that
according to his own light, but that be ..--s not
tai y rank was not sufficient;' that his ' bhds aepartinentf,
Major Sillery worked very indefatigably in
‘ee 1 a Wan °
Posses:ea over the
the rank in the army and the weight VI tof och 0
have had, to be at the head of an establisbuienbt to hsvo
gigantic character ;' that a genera offir 0..„,,ii,
been appointed from this countrY, with
nd at Scutari oreenli
Lord Hardiege states, ' that the column' f higher rank a t
to have been entrusted to an
°fficer °f
rthtes, that,
greater influence.' And Mr. Herbert --n tia thegreetcalae
the great pressure upon these hospitals, a
while they Nor-
mities that occurred in them, took Piece
under the command of Major SllerY. d Reis!' to have
" It mayhot have been possible for Lora
ft- for this service.
spared such an officer with a sufficient s.t ion in the rnei:,
in the pressing circumstances of his Ppaist were cet e rl
)our committee regret that naeasure _o_, aogam, etase
110, 0 oflot to
taken either to reinforce the staff under lee rilen'il, for !',l".
to have enabled him to provide more enacrestiarelothCl4.
command, or to send out on the eueergencYtr; natter
ar7
of sufficient rank from England. While Lord Itail.'"e_
subsequently under consideration at hone
e'erseded .11100.1gret.
appointed Lord William Paulet, who suPfluee °IS
Sillery in the beginning of December. Th?.m. peuleter
castle sent especial instructions to Lordedl4l.lll;arr. Id—erbe.,elo,t!
the sth of January, which were follow nYt; Lord " .
further instructions on the 16th. It is fsia ~,,o stetet_eat
Paulet to add, that a gradual amendment i tatitoing h
his 36'
the hospital took place from the time of
csreentahl c
command. ;are arrki:
ot but r uai
" Your committee, in conclusion,
that the first real improvements iu the
a3ttrihuted tesoPevo-
tion of the hospitals at Scutari are to he; arieste h tout
veto suggestions, private exertions, and sebscrip
,ewe'
lence. (Hear.) A freed, raised by Pnbe Tinto 'lota
was administered by the proprietors oa,wet end a'*vite.
paper, through Mr. Macdonald, au intelile
_4.4 h'ar'd
~,
agent. At the suggestion of the Secretaarlyie'ed aba ,11`.
Nightingale, with admirable devotion, erg._
A''sa wounclaste,
nurses, and u dertook the care of landsietea, after
„1e,..
The Hon. Jocelyn Percy, the lion.
stag •, a Pets
dolphin Osborne, and Mr. Augustus Steen, r_,°lssatereereb
soual inspection of the hospitals, furnish
,tbvese oleos .9_,a,
and suggestions to the Government. Byewee were rai"
suffering was alleviated, the spirits of th
chief Feints
and many lives were saved. (Hear.) to the
~oe in
" Your committee have now adverted
00,,ttoos ; -
thesi
contained in the replies to above 21,0 'Jae dividedtee re'
noticing these various subjects they ha
uudee distinct heads, iu order fairly
to MTortion
rro,
sponsibility. of the a the
feria bleb
" Your committee report that the sti under w
estej,
unxe to the
resulted mainly from the circurestals _ editiontelisj
the
expedition to the Crimea was underta
The Administration which ordered that r
ef
the ferces•th tbu
adequate information as to the amount 0
ointea ea
be cc
Crimea. (Hear.) They were not acclia or with the
Oa
strength of the fortresses to be attackei atsy, h0e,a(1,10,1
sources of the country to be They a
t ly suceesgtevatea
expected the expedition to be inernecliac ot 0 pro in,
as they did not foresee the probehldY,4o care Pe 5 the
struggle they made no provision for a wisnia,,, aeuiet,bolf
" The patience and fortitude of this 17.,,These_50,
admiration and gratitude of the natilan, et. beroia 'steels,
they love fought, het, and suliered. o.ls sod privet, will
and equally heroic patience under sufferic7intrY w, blv
have given them claims upon their c
doubtlss be gratefully acknowledged. (c.bete.:pslrt ,*;,itiie:
Your committee will now closetthetios dial:Voile
hope that every British army may, f° a, rod that
valour which this noble army has displaYe asare r
may hereafter be exposed to such sufterolgs
in these pages." (Loud cheers.) ere'b-S-
The report was ordered to be pr inted,' sfelee• de to
PUBLIC BUSINESS—MORNIN', be had ins sub'
the
Mr. DISBA.ELI reverted to the apPee'roeet 00 es noble
the noble lord at the head of the elevern hoped t* of the
Sm,,pueuk meetingsneel-u,
ii
(atatentti
rttnlahobeaoleex: I
ject of morning sittings. (Hear.) tea oecienceef these
lord had considered the effect on the c° (tele° 00,aerse
and ~t, that) 1-00,ets
11.)co of *
sure fixed for to-morrow
e. clerks,n,aht
iebi(l3yp,,,n
:twetehaosse,u,
grthbahatuebtpii
ilte,rui:iita:il
ri,i_i, liti ivetvi.eutnliol
10,00;!boset3,:t os
op.
co
r:31:e:,
sation Bill, but an hon. member list
,le of the th is ter
amendineet, which affecte I the priege;
and the Speaker would be kept in . i thouP 60,4, ,1',,,
morning and the evening. He certain!
aio4 sit t 0
mittees 'that
CiOir iTtlot 0 a
mittees only ought to be taken at ar,o eol.rfined u
that the business for to-morrow shell,' iurit 0.0 sr,e, 0::
committee on the Metropolis Ira p° that th the
Lord PALMERSTON was.quite avneeted withbtat it
~,,,
the clerks, and all official pareons cni— sittings. ;.,,, et to Po,
suffered inconvenience from nerh ,biewss dent:. Tout, e
I,
impossible that measures, wh enstdoeation tsno„stal
during a seseion, could receiv t coy' . 110 was
_at, tares
ins recourse to sittings in the ti as, ear
tu;'001,1:.
asked by hon. gentlemen for a seri
ratnetioei ther
o►busitil
cular motions, but the effect of
of the house. It would be better,r,ems to
ALted the
re,
that the Government would 1
hon. gentleman appealed to hot_l;ai. fee ran- but AD P
selves to the days allotted to a , a sittings,
morning r i°.
convenience attending these eo ,.. ,
_.oflas fo
olsecgbo:ttrhool :gybe: , i
131 ;
fitvlie 0
tril',_;o::
sent could not tee any remedy:to!
the arraneew the
Mr. DISRAELI iequired a
adhere t°
morrow.
Lord PALIIERSTO. ,d, arraugeo• ig" •
at nilorn co,
order of business as at pr. tten P .
of members a e
aeriteeae
tinge clashed with the duties
einy ree-'0 a
humour
mittees.
14BIT "1- It of long speech°
Sir H. WILLOT-76.0.0 the rest] . .
lati,,u.)
that morning sittings 0 ise,s. 0. .
{ben the even ''
ar eves disposed, to a" .t,
rr
syl SAILOrte
The subject BOF ENG/LI OF leglO of
lief
pe
pr
er
d.t to the fact that .ii..,,
I to *,:eiriji
lIANG,°c' ogjeF, said be w_itshewd.ttiol
regari.
Capt. -OT-Tee the Admiral 1
on the e:. Eta
mast which P"" t'
mitted be the Rumens ,__ on lowee,v'el
the First Lord. , seneeeed of a muYrde.rous outrs'lee sae
hoMT"H.I.I.nEWeingibAAA:IIaTG ON A FLAG
ask a q otion,re,
had been
coin
f her Mejesty's boats in Pit`3,„ re
ei_sa
officer a sue ° h ally despatch Dad butrolet u
t tbe
on the subject, and wte tbs li
to stele .0 oe
state tha fats of the case.xceedingiy
sorrY _tie i .11 be
Sir C. WOOD-e-I am e ,•ndea it 11l ler
gallant irie , believe oree
story to which say hou. andhortly, because e
__, toll_ dtb,
too true. I will statehouse,s
__hat die ol' ajsy be,:al 0
wished to know wil
etheerther the right hon.
satisfactory to the .7_ the snbjec. e t,be b
_do,
that the fullest information UU 3 ito 731
apsePOPr9
to the public. I am also
.prepreia
.010,
nrt
epir
d this woman, from •cUr• 1 501 C j
dosnatch receive
of e
what eel oe co, on
• •ng full perticulars .i. ,s ship .„,,,e,
_s,
couterni ~
thata some short timeseme ageooaheetrinaglatveoeseisYseisthaeevaer.ooooFse.i.arsoiiii,,
three persons—the captain of one 'lo'loo prieeesteedr,rsee
and another Finnish sailor— re
we'nstructionitre th°...101
miral Dundee, anxious, f. onl 1
ary 0001 400 a i.e„,.
home, not to injure with unnecess ;.._,,,,1j0i,
et.ad tho,,boro
of the country so long as th:e ,euZtl.re ,`,t eii,
ee ar
to St. Petersburg were Linterinll, to ,rweee Deno,
sack to bear up to Hangs in ,u'eaetureaur ott.astrera
the persons who had been 00 ' ;,0d woo St•4ot,
quested to be put on shore there,,esoes lis nagba err
sons who lead also been taken Plievhat
ethajogo oth!
burg, and who had also requested ase t ,istencer!ith trf
on shore there, The Cossack rent.r_Tsetee a liore e
~iia 6
to put these persons on shore, a d !titer on e'w. la no°01)
place she anchored, and seat the veta'eacbrusto bealearperooecie
seven prisoners and the ordinary„f
aptet 0. ,e a
e,
truce was displayed for at least isee thejet/s r ,
reached the jetty. Nobody was sae:P,,triee e.,,,0ry to orte!
waoaan away ret once. The boe,t U,,,e.. r"i ere rela, 00';
landed the prnoners and their Ders4a, whedoseu :;"stf, 1
moaned iu the boat. A body of 11-05,0, cre aired iris '_' fie;
to have amounted to from 300 t,c'est., . Theo sa
jetty. Lieutenant Geneste, the ow' on JOS trit' are
10° au alii pot
truce, and explaiued why they ce, truce, 00 .ea et
nish captain also took the ii g l'. the rea'sessie f ,i' t
plain, both -in Finnish and Engliseesa of the te the,
came on shore. The officer in coruinnt lie
,sethea 00 its,
only understood English, but spols,eilos, 3000 oore a til
not care in the least for a flag of trwheretiPncer*c tlil
show how the Russians would fi
_ght,
ori the se--Tbea ,p
Russian soldiers immediately firertPboto all-
©boat tall•ef it,,,'"
prisoners on the jetty, and killed
.12 th soiee loth
tired into the boat till every Iwo
.1 A thrOW_ 00D, aojr).
Russians rushed into the boat,
La_l-.'n'aee nit eve`i'o 04`,
bodies overboard, dragged ono
(avjue,,,_ a,„a ,N:g tete'', falat
him on t jetty, and bayonette t Pl""'
1 to the i°oight, 0,1 'Oll
tauce that the cutter was .. To_ the
tie 0_ pe 1
df oaryt,l etande ingi
st the
she ost.
soul
iu,T 11 The
pc
noireut? r limo ta
there were some dead bodies in..ivr___h the. tied t:_ttel.
man wounded with two ballslit:°l4, sod4it'o o,a,
eu,t I,lil
through his shoulder, cut the ! e slip. In twit:al:4o,lo
the cutter from the jetty to tn ea
d r to ascertaie,, oear t ti
the Cossack standing in in or e e , .. a, boat 4. PI i
come of the men in the cutter, sn, 'l, 000 it 0 ql
,t 1
whose ev" trc'l Is
off the single ,survivor, on soY ais e.
whole story ream. Le re Wee ree 10 •
ther wee"- ere e 01' re
Mr. HEADLAM asked whe fa vre ~,, 00. ,0, ~
0 L• he e be ae
the statement that some of the a
__Ti
of t
.as t
iii
taking soundings under the prote tr_ort that
iti, to 1
rsoeeturtraviiiiiitcitas,f,realviitibti„bc:i,.;
Sir C. WOOD—So far as any! believe to D Or
ant goes .1. lu
tile teble,
lespatch OP°O .
ev• . lal
it was ordered to be pi iuted. „„see.caaa, slot
ADMINISTRATIVErer
eme
eiSvoietrdCi by
C. 37
WOODt'ewhollyG Pot
Government
°II d the
out of doors
..„3-the 0
teo
upon the origin of the demandLThoredaGtljoouprEnentliteibia,twehwaa,saarliteernsoreel;reelirb:rl°-slalosccirtee,
a notwithstandl:l7ly Ototeet,ol
tive Reform, observed tua )30 Bobequero 00%004
taken by the Chaucellor of t
led by the presea „tore,. Pt to
nElUarwegeolyf,retiluerracut:oclibiteiaentiadn_op4_e_u. 0
llviiriatrh
rpegvaprAtiutelit?
the order if Cotancil of 2d May:
A appeared that there wee AO intuition cal w

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deal with that important subject, promotions in the army;
and as to the second, he thought it had been proved. by Sir
2. Northcote that it would be nugatory. fie denied that
Mr. Layard intended by his motion a direct vote of want
of confidence in the Government, and, after citing the
opinions of official persons as to the effects of patronage in
the civil service, be justified the course of action denomi-
nated "the Goderich pledge," thinking, he said that in
the war with patronage the members of that house should
Perform their part. The allusion in Mr. L yard's motion
to the manner in which family ounnexious were allowed to
influence appointments, and to the evils of such influence,
he thought justified by circumstances. He admitted that
a Minister would encounter great risks in endeavouring to
defeat or nullify this influence; he might even be retrieved
from his office ; but no sacrifice could be more noble then
one incurred in the endeavour to reform and render effi-
cient the public service.
Mr. F. PEEL said, after the statement of the noble lord
that the 'speech of the hon. member for Aylesbury had
not. yet received any reply from the Government, he hoped
the noble lord would not feel surprised, or feel it to be any
Want of courtesy towards him, if he passed by the vague
speech which the noble lord himself had just matte, and
proceeded at once to reply to that pot tion of the speech of
the hon. member for Aylesbury relating to the aeueinis-
tration of the army. By far the greater portion of the hon.
Member's speech was confined to criticising the existing
System of administration in the army, and he condemned
in no measured terms the principle upon which he alleged,
but most erroneously alleged, promotion in the army was
regulated. Favoueitism, family influence, and every other
sort of influence except the right influence, regulate the
Patrouaee of the army Recording to the hon. member, and
to show that such was theirnpression which the hoe. mem-
ber's speech was calculated tocreate, lot him recall to their
recollection the fact that the hon. member distinctly stated
that men who worked hard in the army, cr rendered good
service to theielcountry, wereallowed to remain unrewarded
instead of being encouraged to pursue the honourable and
urs ful career to which they were devoting themselves,
while men who did nothing at all, or when they hail
the opportunity cf doing something would not avail then.
selves of it, were taken by the hand at the Herse
Guards and raised to the highest posts in their pro-
foggier. Now, if the hon. gentleman had contented
himself with a general st atement of that sort, he shoul
have at once met that statement, which ho should have felt
himself perfectly warranted in doing, with a simple con-
tradiction; but the hon. gentleman chose to plume a dif-
ferent course. The hon. gentleman followed up his gene-
ral assertion by going into particular cases ; and of course
it could hardly be expected that he should reply to the
hon. gentleman the same evening, because he knew nothing
whatever of the cases which he cited. The hon. member
told them that nut of 90 officers who had been rewarded
for distinguished services iu the East, only 7.0 were regi-
Mental officers. [Mr. Layard—Ouly 25.]t The hon. mem-
ber referred to a Parliamentary return to support his erro
n, eons statement, but he should have been more cautious
in his quotations afterhis previous experience in that re-
oPeet, because although it was Trite true that in the re-
turn which be quoted there were 60 staff officers and only
30 regimental officers shown to have been promoted, it
should yet have been observed that the return was made
on the 13th of March, just three months ago, while at
the foot of the return there was a note to the effect that
, the General Commanding-in-Chief was expecting to receive
a further list of the names of majors and captains of regi-
Ments who had been engagedin action ar had distinguished
themselves in the trenches, and who had been promoted
for such services. (Hear, hear,) Now, if the hon. member
aspiring to lead the country had been anxious not to de-
ceive, or to state the case fairly, he would have gone to
himand inquired whether the return referred to in the
note had been received, or whether the distinctions, which
on the 13th of March last were stated as about being con-
ferred, had been actually conferred or not. (Rear, hear )
*Within a month or so after the r-turn was made the Ge-
neral Commanding-in-Chief di l receive that list of regi-
Mental officers, and it would be found in the Gazette of the
24th April last. It was a list of captains promoted to the
rank of major, cud majors to the rank of brevet lieutenant-
colonels, and if that list were added to the one in the re-
tarn,e it would be found that the promotions had been four
ia.""lies as many as represented by the hon. member. (Hear.)
"Ls' e might state, in conclusion, that 64 staff-officers and 135
elrgitnental officers had been rewarded for their services in
the East. The hon. gentlemau had referred to the case of
Colonel Wilson, but the real question for consideration in
that case was, whether Col. Wilson should purchase his own
ea?mtnission, or whether it should have been purchased for
Linn by, the relatives of a deceased officer, Col. Mackinnon.
(Hear, hear.) Colonel Wilson had put down his name for
Porebase in consequence of two officers above him having
Withdrawn their names for purchase, and stated that they
would take their chance of obtaining promotion by casual-
tiers. The object of Colonel Wilson was to get over the
heads of those two officers, but it happened that by the
&casualties of war vacancies were created by death, and those
two officers succeeded in getting their promotion before
volonel Wilson. The bon: gentleman then addressed
!elf to the case ef regimental appointments, and, in inns-
‘ration of his meaning, divided the cases into two clastee
°as with and the othewithout interest. He named in the
first class five officers, four of whom were relatives of Lord
liardinge--namely, the Hon. Arthur Hardinge, his son ;
ajor Hardiuge, his -nephew ; Colonel Wood, a relative
oY
marriage; and Colonel Couyngham, his son-in-law. In
referring to the case of the Hon. Arthur Ilardinge, the
hon. member referred to the existence of an order whereby
6 Was directed that an officer should not be appointed
aide-de-camp until lie had served two years, and stated
that in the case of the Hon. Arthur Hardinge that' order
had not been observed. The order to which the hon. 'nem-
'ler referred was enforced at home, but abroad and in India
it was dispensed with in the case of the govercor-general's
Staff and in the case of the general officer commanding
When the army was in the field. With respect to the case
of Colonel Wood, he had been assistant quartermaster-
general at the Horse Guards, and when the deputy quer- s
termaster-general became vacant in Dublin, he succeeded
t to the vacant office, he (Mr. Peel) would not say according
to estabished custom, but in accordance with a course of
proceeding for which a great number of precedents could
be cited. As to the ease of Col. Couyngham, he might ob-
serve that he had been acting since the commencement of
the war as assistant adjutant-general of the first division of
le army, had been present in all the battles, and never was
Iteent from his post, and in every instance the description
appointment recently conferred on him carried with it
as step of local rank. The hon. gentleman complained
I.tentiocted 4 ills being made a major-general, but it should be
that solo el Hardinge was twenty-five years in
the service, and the complaint was inconsistent after the
Statement made the other night by the hon. member him-
self with respect to the ages of the generals in the Penin-
toiler war. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member then referred
te the case of Captain or Major Selby Stuith to the office a
deputy-quartermaster at the Cape. That was not an ap-
pointment which in all probability Lord Hardinge would
have made himself, but in making it he lied yielded to the
representations Of General Jackson—the officer responsible
for the tranquillity of Cape Colony—and who, in antici-
pation of Colonel Kloete's requisition, recommended Nejor
Selby Smith should he appointed to that office. That
officer had obtained the brevet rank of lieutenant, but the
hon. member was mistaken as to the effect of that brevet
promotion. The hon. member said the first step he had
received placed him over the head of the senior major of
his own regiment, while the second step placed hi-u over
the liutenaut-colonel of his regiment. Now the fact, really
vras, that the brevet rank obtained by this officer did not
e!! arty way alter his relation to the regimental officers of
tis regiment. fle (Mr. Peel) had now disposee of the
first of the two classes to which the hon. member had re-
ferred ; and ho would now refer to the class that had, ac-
ordieg to the hon. member's statement, been neglected
for so lone a time. (Hear, hear.) The first case he stated
was that of Lieutenant Buck, who was one of those officers
ithe had suffered from the system of purchase. (Rear,
thn) Re had no means to purchase, and had crept slowlyl'ough the grade of lieutenant, but he was now senior
lie ugh
and if his regiment should be sent to the seat
awf war, and raised from twelve to sixteen companies, he
°aid, as a matter of course, be appointed captain of one
f the new companies without purchase. The next case
to which the honourable member had refereed was the
!as', Of Lieutenant Edwards, who had served in the Pe-
ninsular war, and been engaged on several occasions. At
,`,Te conclusion of the war Lieut. Edwards was placed on
he half-pay list in 1818, and there he had since remained,
With the exception of about seven years, during which be
Was on full pay. It was complained that he did not get an
11 ,nattached company, and.there was no disposition to give
'floi such an appointment when it became vacant; but he
tOprehended it would not be for the interest of Lieutenant
the to get that promotion, because he is adjutant of
.ficcoreing
ue recruiting district of Liverpool, and that situation,
to the regulations, could .only be held by a lieu-
tenant. The next was the case of Captain Carruthers, wko
had been refused a brevet-majority, to which he was re-
hadd by General Cathcart. He was an officer who
✓ been placed on half-pay in 1818, and, with the excep-
ta of five years, haul been on half pay, from that time to
ofirl ; but in the year 1842 he was appointed brigade-major
'aPetown. fie (Mr. Peel) admitted that it was proba-
4:hat when the Kafir war broke out the duties of this
or this Were largely increased ; but when at the termination
ee
is Isar application was made by General Cathcart to
-,;tl 1-lardinge, to confer the honorary distinction of bre-
vet-major upon him, Lord Hardinge, considering that he
Le_• a 600 miles from the seat of war, and that he rial never
in British Kaffraria, thought that such a distinction
an• glet rather to be conferred upon officers personally en-
gag©d with the enemy, than upon a man .who, however
" be had performed his duties, was not it the field. The
elt case to which the hon. member hail referred was the
case of Lieutenant Daniel, and the complaint was that he
ass refused an unattached company without purchase'. It
tPPeared from a enemorandurn which he had received from
the
Herse Guards that Lieutenant Daniel had retired om
ti 04th Foot, then in India and about to return home,
tat'he 75th Regiment, and that he had received, as is cue-
ef,taa arY in such
theniar compensation for making
la exchange. He came to Englend, and applied fer
toeamotion, and it was thought necessary before giving it
aia,,slE for some explanation about the exchange he had
eeiv"_°- Lieutenant Daniel admitted that he had re-
ie was'!ll a sum of 'money for effecting the exchange, and
La. of course impossible to promote an officer who
jeJust made a profitable arrangement with regard to
maid® (Rear, hear.) The hon. gentleman also
,tautt, charges with respect to the appointments on the
;1 He had heard that officers were ou the staff who
,7",1 not received certificates at Sandhurst. Ile (Mr. Peel)
to`"" not consider that such a certificate ought of itself to be
11013118.1dered as a satisfactory proof of qualification. The
col_• gentleman's next complaint was, that whilst some
a,erulitels of regiments, like Colonels Yorke rand Garrett,
. beeng temporarily in the Crimea as brigadiers, two
c). appointed to hold that rank at Malta who had
eg,seen any service at all—Coloiieli Williams and Rotnilly.
407, the truth was, that one brigadiership was just as
,Ii".,118 another, and there was no difference in point of
malts appointments
did the hon. gentleman suppose that if the
an 4 ateapPointments hail been offered to Colonels Yorke
eA„„.eearratt they would have been accepted? Colonel
,erti.P-anes was one of the oldest colonels of his rank in the
eh,"ce, and Colonel Romilly had been filling the office of
thief of the provisional battalion at Parkhurst, one quite
gons to the charg n
e he ow held at Malta ;he had
O• `-)wls himself a proficient in its duties, and that was the
NZ,eY reason why he had been sent to Malta. (Hear.)
ciph regard to honours conferred by the Commander-in.-
Chief, ef, he asked if they bad been given with the object of
eowl aiding such officers as had greatly distinguished them-
Selves ? Those honours, in the case of officers of high rank,
Were
colonelcies
the colonelcies of eegiments. He found that four
had been conferred since the breaking out of the
disrigs obtained
for services performed and
c()ttnction obtaired in the campeieu of the Crimea—Sir
es_l4l Campbell, Sir Richard England, Major-Generals
liaelirtinck and Pakenham. (Hear.) Again, how had Lord
au dingo filled up the new companies created by the
vagotentation of the regiments of Foot Guards ? It
after be admitted that no situations were more sought
eeerr than commissions in the Guards, and if there
0, e Any disposition to abuse patronage there would be an
ei'Portunity for doing so in this case. Half the additional
tiellinpanies raised. were suffered to go in the separate bat-
ceeten ; the other half were not given in that way, but
-.were from the line were brought is and placed at their

heal. (Hear.) In every instance the officers so brought
in were persons who had seen good and distinguished sere
vies either in India, the Cede, or the Crimea. (Hear.)
.He believed be had now gone over every instance alleged
.by the hon: gentlemen of the vices and evils of the present
system ; he would briefly notice the measures of re-
form propontded by bin. The hon. gentleman said thee
iu the first pla-e we must abol.sh the system of promotion
by purchase, and he proposed that, as 2,500 of the exist-
ine commiesions, from Lord Hardmge downwards, lr.d
been given without purchase, we should not iu future al-
low any officer who hurl so received it to sell his commis-
sion. Ile had given his best consideration to the plan thus
suggested,- and he ceuld not see that it could be adopted
without affecting vested interests, as the hon. gentleman
contended. Se pp ese the case of a, lieutenant-colonel wish-
ing to retire, who had received his ensigney, say 20 years
! before, without purchase. He had been so appointed on
the understanding that he would have the opportunity and
a I vantage of selling out, if he lived, and he (Hr. Peel)
could not see how such en officer could be deprived of the
right he had to a realisation of the pecuniary value of the
commission without a disturbance of his vested interests.
(!-Fear.) The hon. gentleman then said that we must a its.
cute the staff, and allow no person to be appointed to it
who hail not gone through a certain course of study. He
Was not disposed to deny that there was value in that sug-
gestion, but he thought he might pass it by without no-
tice, because the point was at that moment under the con-
sideration of a committee of that house, appointed to in-
quire into the system pursued at the Military College of
Saudhuret, and presided over by the right bon. baronet
the member for Portsmouth. The hon. gentleman endea-
voured to attaibute our misfortunes to the public appoint-
ments which lied been made, but the report of the com-
mittee of inquiry inculpated the system, ao.l not indivi-
duals. He ilia not believe that any one who succee led the
Duke of Newcastle in his office would have consented to
accept it if he ha.l been tied up from making such reforms as
he held to be necessary, and required to exercise, the
functions with the same limited authority. Though he
c add not consent to the resolutioc. he was as favourable
to the appointment of properly qualified men for the public
service as i es most zealous adherent could be.
Mr.ILDRUMMOND criticised the terms of the motion,
which chiefly consisted of assertions which were open to
question. In reference to the speech of Mr. Lindsay at
Drury-lane, he reminded him of his having been had up for
n it having sent out some Australian emigrants with whom
he had contracted. He did not mean to enter into that
question,
but it was not too much to say that the hon.
gutleman could not have displayed much administrative
agility or he would not have been so hail up. Mr. L +yard
h id said there was a run against him in that house, but it
wes not the fact. Whateverhe had received he had brought
on himself, but ho and his friends had hounded down a
Mr. Walker and his frieu Is at Drury-lane, because he did
not quite agree with them in opinion. He referred to the
adulterations of food to show the purity and innocence of
the middle classes, and to the East India Company to ex-
hibit, the perfection of government—a government by mer-
cuants, who were wholly guiltless of an . thing like job-
bery ! He could not see what was to be gained by voting
for either the motion or the amendment, for the cry on
which they Were founded was a delusive one, which was
perfectly unintelligible.
Mr. JOHN MACGREGOR, said that the house had lost
sight of the true course of proceeding. They ought to act
on the lessons of past experience. The Government were
ncw in the same p redicamentas their predecessors werefrom
1744 to 1750, wheu the King was compelled to send for Mr.
Pitt, whom he mortally hated. lie would take neon himself
to tell bold truths, and to " bell the cat" on this occasion.
When Mr. Pitt held the seals of office he would not al-
low any of the offices of the State to be filled by any but
efficient men. Since that time the British empire had
increased threefold in power and consequence ; and now,
who was at the head of the Government? A noble lerd
of the greatest ability, and in whom he had the greatest
confidence. But he believed that he was not permitted to
rule with the freedom and with the power possessed by Mr.
Pitt. He then came to the Colonial-office. He believed
that thet office was now filled by as able an administrator
as aver occupied it. He also believed that the Foreign-
office had an able head ; and he had also no doubt that if ,
the right hon. baronet at the head of the Home-office had
health and strength lie wont be perfectly competent to
manage the :affairs of that department. He now came to
India. And he had no hesitation in saying that the coun-
try was perfectly astounded when a gentleman without a
single follower and of no prestige in the house was en-
trusted with the asiful destinies of India. He believed
that the Admiralty would be presided over by the right
hon. baronet opposite (Sir Q. Wood) with the same saga-
city and ability which distinguished his career as secretary.
in that department. It was true that that right hon.
baronet was not so popular as some other men either in
that house or in the country. (Laughter.) But the rea-
son of that was that lie had too much of the bluntness of
an honest Englishman to be either evasive or truckling..
and laughter.) He denied that there was any feel-
-issee-in the country against the aristocracy, but he could
net deny that there was dis9atiefiction at the att..3ati!)a
which appeared to have been paid to the claims of con-
s tnguiuity in the formation of the Ministry, nor that there
was an opinion abroad, that the noble lord had been
obliged to yield to a superior influence in filling up the
great offices of State. There was no country, he was sorry
to say, in which the mere fitness of a man for high office
was so little considered as iu England.
Cel. LINDSAY explained serve inaccuracies into which
Mr. Layard had fallen with respect to the promotion of
Lord Eastace Cecil and Mr. Blackett.

Mr. J. PHILLIMORE thought the principle of corri
petition could not be introduced into the civil service.
lie was a friend to definite reform, and it was because l;e
was so that he would vote against the motion of Mr.
Leyard, which had nothing definite about it.
Mr. DISRAELI—I should not have deemed it necessary
to say a word -in support of the amendment of my hon.
friend the member for Hertfordshire, hail it not been for
some remarks made in the course of the debate, especially
one made by my lion. friend the member for East Surrey
(11r. Drummond), who, with the humour in which he ex-
cels, sneered at the phrase " administrative reform," to
which he said he for one could annex no meaning and of
which he doubted whether those who used the phrase could
favour him with a definition. As I think I was the first
who used the expression in this house, it becomes me not
to shrink froM assuring him that I think it is an expres-
sion capable cf definition, ono to which I annex a very pre-
cise meaning, and one which I think expresses a principle
that, if acted on, may be most benetivial to the State. The
right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer di-
lated upon the improveinents which have for some years
been made in the public service, anti did me the honour to
acknowledge that dining the period when the Government
of Lord Derby were in office they were not remiss in ex-
ertions to improve the public service. The right hon. geu-
tletna.n the member for the University of Oxford (Mr.
Gladstone) still more amply and liberally acknowledged
that during the time the administration of Lord Derby was
iu po ver steady and rapid progress—l think those were the
words he used—was made in efforts to render the public
service mole efficient. Now, I may be permitted to tell
my hon. friend (Mr. Drutninonil) that I th uk that such
measures are measures of administrative reform. The right
hon. centletnan the Chancellor of the Exchequer anil the
member for the Universityof Oxford would have the house
to infer that in the measures which we adopted, especially
ea regard to the departments connected wi'h the adminis-
tration of Ireland, we followed precedents which had been
set before us. I would take the liberty of stating that the
course we adopted in issuing commissions to examine
into the several departments of the public service was
not influenced by these precedents, however reputable.
The fact is that, previous to our accession to office, a very
significant event had occurred, which had more influence
noon our conduct, and must have had more influence upon
that of any Government than any precedents which might
have been feund in the public onions. Before we arriVed
to once the extraordinary scandal respecting the ail minis-.
tration of the Customs had taken, place, and the circu-n-
-stances attending it had been examiried into by a committee
of `this house, which made a report, with which no doubt
many hon. members were familiar. It devolved upon us-to
consider what was the measure which we thought compe-
tent, iti a remedial sense, to deal with sucha state of aff
and which, had our Government continued, would have
been almost the first we should have submitted to the
house. It was in examining that important subject that
our attention was naturally attracted to consider the ed-
ministration and management of all branches of the public
service. It was impossible to resist the conc:usion that the
public offices required considerable change, and' that they
were not as efficient as a country in the condition of Eng-
land had a right to require. W e at rived at tho conclusion
that the changes associated with what is now called admin-
istrative reform were changes which were imperatively re-
quired, and which no Government could long continue
without originating and carrying out. Another cause that
led us to that Opinion was, that we thought the system of
taxation required considerable alteration to render it nine
just. To effect the changes we contemplated it was our in-
terest to have the largest possible surplus. 'therefore we
wore anxious to consider whether we could not increase it
by making all practical and judiciouseconomies in the public
service. We had not long investigated the question before
we perceived that efficiency was trio true parent of economy
and that in considering what was efficient we should ob-
tain more surety the economical results and the reduction
of expenditure which we deeired to secure. It was with
these fe slings that we applied to me noble friend the mem -
leer for Buckingham(the Alarq eie of Chandos),and requested
him to make that revision of the Irish departments which
has been several times referred to in the course of this de •
bate. My noble friend undertook that operation with no
limit as to expenditure, and only one instruction, which
was to render the Irish service as efficient as he possibly
could. With these views he, with the present accountant-
of the navy, undertook the revision of the chief
secretary's office, the Irish Privy Council office, and the
Irish-office in this country. The consequence of the reforms
effected was to place these offices in the most efficient
state, anti at the same time to obtain a reduction of expen-
diture to the amount of 25 per cent. After that experi-
ment, and after due consideration, the .Government of
Lord D:Tby resolved to bring under the consideration of
the house, as soon as it was iu their power, the whole ques-
tion of administrative reform. .On this occasion I am most
careful not to speak of the mere intentions of the Govern-
ment. I am not now pretending to express to the house
what was all we intended. I scrupulously confine myse f
to measures of which, tee the organ of the Government, I
had eicen notice in my place in this house. It was our
intention, as I then stated, after tke measures we were
thee cincerned with were settled—if they had been favour-
ably settled—to have brought under the consideration of
the house the whole question of administrative reform,
with the view of rendering the public administration of the
and the public service in all de-
omreoreefficeoinensotnant with the requirements of the
stil:tlsrould have. stated the e reforms which we thought
scla3:63:oerut.nultelfelyntake place in time civil service, and that we had re-
commended her Majesty to issue a royal commission to in-
quire into the conduct of all the public departments of the
State, and from the report of that commission we should
have drawn those regulations which we thought were neces-
sary to effect the regulations, and ahou'd have hail them
Sanctioned and enforced by an act of Parliament. Lista:dm;
to the alterations which have been devised on all sides, it
appears to me that it isthecouthrseefi‘r yshtitchbisnhgowuledwhaanyte
is to
ceded all suggestions; because
leern bow the public service can be carried on in the most
efficient manner. I think I have shown that there is some-
thing definite to be associated with the phrase "adminis-
trative reform." Had we remained in office, we should have
hail the honour of introdueirg two measuresof administrative
rename which have been sanctioned by the Government
which followed us. One was the measure for the better ad-
ministration of the Customs. Surely the hon. member for
East Surrey will not pretend that the measure which was
Selopt.d in regard to the subject was not a measure of
" administrative reform." Another measure of " atleninis
trative reform," for which the country was indebted to the
clo;rernment of Lord Derby, although we had not the ho-
nour of passing it, is the
he gross revenue of the country is to be paid into the Ex-
chequer--a measure of
measure in accordance with which
which rhadgivenliotioe, and which
succeeded
the right bon, gentleman who curried with

our assistance through this house. That is a measure of
reform, .because without it you could never have hied a
complete public account, without which all'adnainietrative
reform must be illusory. Therefore, I have shown that this
phrase is one which, en ear as I anti those with whom I act
are concerned, is associated with praetieal measures of great
advantage to the pubic, which ought, in my opinion, to
receive a much larger development than has hitherto been
promised. Io the course of this d&eate we have heard a
great deal aleent chenges which ought to be introduced into
the civil service of this country. I should be very sorry if
fora moment I could be induced to defer to a pdblic cry
which I did not believe to be justified, or if I could under
such circumstances be induced to express any opinion on
this subject which I was not prepared to express.. nearly
three years ago in a much more responsible position. I
scrupulously refrain from expressing oa this subject other
opinions, it I entertain them, than those which I was then
prepared to produce for the adoption Of the house. I was
then of opinion, and have since had the opinion confirmed,
that great changes are necessary in the civil administration
of this country. In the first piece, I am of opinion that the ,
entrance into that service should not be by mere favouri-
tism. I thick it should be the subject of a substantial and
real test of fitness ; and I think the idea of a substantial
and real test of fitness is not illusory, but essentially prac-
tical. I think, in the second place, that the rewards of our
public civil servants should be on re higher scale. (Hear.)
I think that the result of the change will be public eco- 1
nomy, and not increased expenditure. I think that the 1
rewards of the public servants should not be merely of a
fixed nature, but that they should be trained to look upon 1
.other and more spiritual rewards which animate and en- i
Amble the conduct of men. lam also of opinion thatethe
civil service of the country ought to be made, and must,:
be made, strictly and completely professional, and the !
great offices of the State should bo reserved for public ser- ,
vents who have been trained and educated in the perma-
nent civil service. (Hear, hear.) These are what I think
:sound and judicious changes. They are changes of admie
nistrative reform. They are changes which I think every ,
Government ought 'to adopt and carry out, and nothing
shoat of this ought to satisfy the house. They are changes :
which I advocate, not in deference to any popular clamour,
but which I was prepared to advocate when it was difficult
sae i to get the house to adopt such a recommendation.
'The result of these changes, in my opinion, would have
been an improvement of the public service, a gre it atlean-
twee to the country, and a prevention of much of those
1 evils of maladministration which we have had recently to
lament. (Hear, hear.). Sir, I am still of opinion that,
although you may by these changes elevate the tone of the .
public service, although you may obtain a high degree of
talent, although you 'nay reward in a becoming manner
that high degree of talent, although the general reeulte of
that change will be satisfactory, salutary, and successful
- still the first stop which you ought to take is to obtain
from high authority a clear and distinct idea of the most
efficient manner iu which the public service can, in all its ,
deeartments, be conducted, and when you have obtained I
that, you ought to devise the means by which that ideal
'can be carried into effect. Sir, I know no mode by which
this information can be obtained but by issuing n royal com-
mission of practical men—of men who have arrived at high
posts in the civil service—who have sho we great ad ministra-
tive talent, mixed and blended, as all such commissions
should be, with a certain portion of the political experience
and statesmanlike ability which can be found in the house of
Commons. S:r, lam persuaded, if the commission which
we had meditated—if the co omission hal been formed of 1
such individuals as we should have resommended her Me- I
jesty, much of the evils which we have had to deplore !
would net have occurred. With these views, which those
with whom I act were prepared to carry into effect a long
time ago, I am called on to-night to consider the motion of
the hoc. member for Aylesbury. That motion, as I read
it, is one which, far from embodying the policy which I
would recnumend the house to adopt, is ono which very
indifferently meets the wants which I have indicated to
the house this evening. It calls on me also to assent tot n
assertion which I most sincerely cannot give my assent to.
I um called upon by the resolution to agree that the ineffi-
()limey which we all deplore is attributeble to the manner
ire which merit and efficiency is sacriecel in public ap-
pointments, to party and family interest, and blind ad-
herence to routine. I think I have shown to-night, and
on other oceiesioae, that I am no blind adherent to routine
in the publ.ceitliees. lain conscious I thick of deficiencies
and failures, and I am prepared to remedy them if oppor-
tunity offers by any measure equal to the occasion; but I
cannot agretethat the disasters of the 'country have been
occasioned by a bliud adherence to routine in the public
service, or by any want of administrative talent or defi-
ciencies in the public offices. It is more than possible, I
think it is quite possible, that the public service maybe
improv d, and much of its routine modified and altered,
bat I should be expressing what I do not believe if I at-
tributed to the paella service disasters which I can only
attribute to a culpable Ministry—(cheers)—to a Ministry
which the House of Commons, by an overwhelming ma-
jority, only a few mouths ago declared incapable, and which
a report this evening such as never before was read in the
House of Cumulous, statue, as the result of the mature in-
vestigation of men selected with no reference to party opi-
nien--of some of the most eminent men of this house—
that they sanction the former verdict of the house. (Hear.)
It would be a miserable subterfuge in the last degree to say
that the misgovernment of the country is the consequence
of a few inadequate c erks-(hear, hear)—and that unless
the. routine of the public offices be altered—although
no one is more conscious than I anon of the improvements of
which the public service is susceptible—l say it woul tbe
base hypocrisy to attribute to it the c tuses of those disas-
ters, when an overwhelming majority of the House of Com-
mons, when a committee of the house, after a period of
almost mien ecedeeted investigation, has declared that they
are the coesequences of the incapacity (Stile Government.
(Cheers.) 1 attribute these disasters, as the house and a
great poi Mon of the nation does, to the existence of a
Cabinet which, although formed of men of great ability
and political experience, was not bound together by public
sympathy, and reciprocal and private reg trd, which are
essential to render any Cabinet a successful administration.
irrespective of all other cunsideratiuLs I think it most
unwise, by supporting such a inn' ion as this, to use it as a
mums of conducting from a Government which ought to
be responsible, and of which every member wili sooner or
.later be inede responsible - I say IS is most unwise to use
such a motion as a means of con luting 1 üblic indignation
from a Government whicm has yet to answer for deeds of
failure and disasters which it has coneunimeted and
secured to itself... (Hear, hear.) This being the case, the
hon. baronet the member for Herds (Sir E. B Lytton) has
proposed a resolution which in my opinion accurately ero-
oodi,s what this house ought to feel on this subject. It
does not coat° forward and in exaggerated language tell
you that all the misgovernment and misconduCt which has
so st,ldened the spirit of the country fur so long a period,
is t , be attributed to a system of administration which
has prevailed for so long a time, and which, with all its
shortcomings, has accomplished so many successes, and
achieved so many glories. (Coeers ) It does not come
forward with assertions which cannot be p, eyed iu any way,
and ask us, in deference to popular clamour, to sanction
such a declaration with our vote ; but it expresses, in lan-
guage which I think is definite and precise, in language
which I Wink will be justified by proof, and will be sanc-
tioned by the house, and meet with the mature approbation
of public ()pillion— which states the real state of affairs,
and what the real wants of the country do indeed require.
It calls for a careful revision of the various establishments
of the country, and it tells us the views with which that
careful revision ought to be conducted ; it tells us the ob-
jects which that careful revision ought to attain—namely,
to simplify and facilitate the transaction of public business.
That is precise, and that is adfninietrative reform. Let time
remin i the hon. member for Surrey (Mr. H. Drummond)
that it tells US to institute a judicious test of a erit—that
we ought to remove obstructions to fair promotion and
legitimate rewards. Is tells us that we ought to secure to
the State a large available proportion of the energy anti
talent of the country. These are rezornmendations to
which I give my entire adherence, and which precisely ex-
press the course which the Government of Lent Deroy was
prepared to recommend. If you pass this amendment—
and I am told it is to be passel with the assent of Govern-
ment—let the house be careful that this amendment, if
taken by Government, is not used as a mere machine to
avert from them the consequences which would resultfrom
c irrying the motion of the hon. member for Aylesbury,
but that the Government take it in the spirit of sincerity
and truth so imperatively recommended uy the House of
Commons. (Hear, hear.) Let the Government be pre-
pared, if they adopt it, to act on it in the spit it of truth.
I say, if Government act in that way, they ought to take
the same efficient steps that we were prepared to take, in
order to ascertain how the public business and all the pub-
lic offices can be carried on iu the most efficient wanner.
They ought to issue a commission, and from its report
draw up tegulationi for the conduct of the pubic offices,
and to call upon the House of Commons to sanction these
regulations by an act of Parliament, and, above all, to
preserve every public office from the caprice and wilful-
ness of any political chief who may be placed at its head.
I am net prepared to recommend any meesures but in the
spirit in which I have spoken ; and if we obtain that
which I have ventured to sketch to-night, you may
rely upon it that great advantages will accrue to the
country ; but let those advantages be obtained with
the utmost respect to the existing institutions of the
country, and in a manner which need not alarm the most
timid. Ido not pretend by any fanciful machinery you
can entirely destroy the evils consequent upon what is
celled favouritism or the exercise of patronage. Sir, I think
when you have to consider Uri, subject you must place any
evils which may result from the exercise of patronage as
thv countervailing evils of having power exercised by those
who are reel) msible to responsible representatives of a free
people. The countervailing advantages are in my mind so
preponderating that I would not' risk them for what may
by only a fanciful, and, p..rhips, Utopian result. Sir, if
you secure, as I believe you may secure, that the entrance
' into the public service of this country should be sought,
not by the least competent of a family, but by the most
couipeteut in it—(hear, hear)—if you make the qualifica-
tion for that entrance the fitness which is the result of in-
- telligesuce and the moral qualities which are requisite—if
you do this, and in addition to this secure to the success-
ful aspirant an honourable and sufficiently remunerative
professional career, you may rely upon it that the men
who enter into the civil service will ee equal to the occa-
sion and to the opportunity. Entering by merit, they
must rise by merit ; but the judges of merit in the higher
walks of the service must be the Ministers of the Crown,
and it must not be left to any fanciful system of competi-
tion—(Hear, hear)—which Ithink is utterly foreign to the
manners, customs, and genius of a country like our own.
(Hear, heor.) Why, sir, when I hear of public appoint-
ments tieing made independently of the Ministers of the
Crown, I am bound to ask myself what is the meaning of
a Minister of the Crown if he is not to appoint the most
fitting men to public employmeats. We are not told thumb
Mr. Pitt said to eceuebody whose name is never mentioned
that tie had never in the course of his long political cereer
put the right man iu the right place. We heard the
t o other day that a deceased Prime Minister, whom
we all- recollect, was afraid to open a letter lest -he
should hear of the death of a bishop. That I believe.
has been mentioned as the feeling of a pure and patriotic
spirit, but I look upon it as the trait of an indolent and•
epicurean mind. (Cheers.) WhY, sir, what is the first
qualification of a Prime Minister ? It is not Ministerial
talent, for ho has to look out for Ministerial talent in all
his colleagues. It is rather the perception of character and
the knowledge of mankind. It is the duty, and one of the
highest duties, of a Prime Mini-ter, to take care that the
country has pions bishops and wise judges, and in the
highest offices of the State the most able and qualified men
to discharge the functions of these offices. I say that is the
(nest important office which the Prime Minister can exer-
cise, ant that is one of the chief reasons why he exists. I
say that you may render, as you ought to render, the en-
trance
into the civil service of the country a step only
practicable to those who are really competent to enter it,
tnd that you may have, as you ought to have, in my opi-
iiion,'a complete and efficient test of fitness from a properly
qualified and independent board of examiners; that you
aught' to render the civil service a complete profession,
end to offer to it not only those rewards which are offered
in all other professions, but those rewards, of another and
a higher character, which induce men to exert themselves,
and reward them for such exertions; that you ought,
above all, to take care that the, groat places in the civil der'