The National Register.
London, England, 1820-10-22 00:00:00

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 22, 1820.

Who desired you to come over as a wituesst—No au;
my own will.
De you mean to swear you nave voluntarily, without
any person applying to you for the purpose?—.t came here
by niy own will, because I heard that the Advocate 80.
lassi was receiving testimony, and I went to him and said
I had something to say about that lady, who had done a
great deal of good.
Will ,on swear that you went to Bolasal of your own
accord without aoy application being made to you?—Yes,
I will swear that before any tribute'.
Were you examined by Bolassi ?—Yes.
Nolan' having said you might go, did you cute over of
your own accord f —Yes; because 1 told him. that if it
had been a business that required me to go 100 mile', I
would go willingly.
Did you come over to England by yourself. or in the
' company of other persons ?—I came over with my bead
master, Garolini, and three other persons.
Did yon pay your own @spruces of coming over, in
consequence of your corning voluntarily I—l have not.
Who paid theta?--41y head muter, who paid all the
expences; for he paid for all.
Who is your bead master t—Oarolini.
Is be your Muter when you live at the Villa Dermal?
—He is.
What areyes be paid for cowing berg as a witness t
This is it. ? u
*eat to the Advocate, I told him if viz,
this is to be of a little nate, I have no objection
to go.
The question was reputed; when the witness raid—l
told him if I was to go a bandred sales, I would go with-
out any interest.
What are you to be paid for made, here P—As to the
pay I cannot tell, because wiles I saw the Advocate. I
told him if lie would give some trine to my family, I would
go fur that lady to the end of the world.
What pay does your family receive t—This it is; they
give a here (tenpeuce) for my wife, and half* litre (five-
pence) to each of my childreuldaughters).
Will you swear you have not suede au agreement for a
sum of money coming here t—This I can swear, that I
have mail* so agreement whatever; but as some people
have hopes, I may have some Slopes also.
Then I understand you have hopes of remuneration?—
, I have told you that I have no hopes. For that lady, the
Princess, for the benefits I have received from her, I
would go the end of the world.
Do you remember on one occasion, going upstairs to mend
a door at the B iron ?—How am I to reasesiber that baying
been there 100 times!—(A laugh.)
Did you ever see her Royal nighties up stain?—Yes is
her 01111 MOM.
Was it when you were mending the door you saw her?—
No i it was when I mended a chest of drawers.
Was Renaud with her?—No, I did not see him.
Now did you never say you saw, upon that occasion or
any other, her Royal Ingham and Buried I. her Royal
Higbaess's bedroom together l—How often am I to say
se Na"—(Alaugh)—l never did. 1 weer mid, nor Moo 1
soy aim U.

Examined by the Lords.
Lord GREY,—Was say preposition made to yen to give
evidence assist the Queen, sad by whom P—No.
Did so one speak to you upon the shires of giving evidence
against at Quettut--Yes Itestelli, whom I mentioned the
usher day.
A LosD.—Do you expect to be paid more or kw, in pro.
portion as 'our evidence is more or less favourable to the
to the Queenl--1 only say, if they give me, I will take IL—
(r% Isugh,)
The Marquis of LANiDOWNE asked whether is was
Mr. Brougham's intention to examine the next wituse with
respect to the charge of bribery.
Mr. BROUGHAM said lee should pursue that course fur the
purpose of establishing the conspireey.
Lent DARN ANNOY asked the Noble Lord (Liverpool)
who had acted in Hamner fur the vase againet her Royal
fligimes.?
Lord LIVERPOOL mentioned, there had been but one
agent su Hanover. and tits was toe British Mii —ter.
Dogifillo Onsarti eximinvd by Mr. Winne.

Are you a Member of the &rimy of Advocnteout Milao I
—Yes.
Were you there concerneOs agent fur Royal Highness
the Prineeis of Wales 1— Y
Mil z
you know Advocaat Imicar:i /--I did.
Had you al any time tiopor nasuoicatiiin with Yilnricarti,
mut/ling the Princess of itiltles 1-1 hods
thd you, iu that comouttA(4lioll. Captain to Vihnicarti
soor reason for log o:tairts told the person who coo-
Juile4 hue; to his door.
bid you state your lustiness so Vilmicarti P-1 did not.
1)1.1 you cute to Villisicarti what passed between you and
the person who took ypu to the dour? —'Put moment he saw
ate his knew me, alidliold me to bring the pullets belonging
to her Royal
DM he olh'r you tiny inducement to Ming those papers
Tie litiLicirolo; SNI 81. objected to toe course of en-
quir)e No conifers between the a noel, mod Vthnicarti
emild.be esimmee with reference to the churgcs in the pre-
:smith; of the Hill.

._... . . ,
air. W r Loa slid, Vilmicarti ass proved to be an score.
diced livitt.aud it %%tut iseceissey tu prove his itch ill the
quer ,1 '6 tle•frnee•
How the inittutrs of evidence were read by order of the
Lord ( hatierlior, utile!' applied to the nets of V thnieurti,
lie 0hj...1 hying to divvover %whether hoiy putt If ferted to the
IX
etiottuuoivittiont tvet wren tl airless illlli Viltuivarti.
;Ir. Bauvou 4 111 runic cloud Nut:daily ill support of
(he 3tet•tionll, :11111 deetar Ibuysitalfr prove that V thinker' I
had newt% in the ntu.t atrocious sitattner. He askttl the
Lords, and his Lear oed Friend. whose protiority taiibt de-
putt! opine the Wove of the roeseotiow, this quantum—lt we

[Paws 914_

are sew allowed to prove facts of great importeace to we
Royal .Client. bow is the Queen to proceed further
The goLterroa-Oexisarm, in reply, defended the eller
racier of Velmicarti. who was only keens as a penes
taking dews We evidence fee the Milan Committee. "-His
Leeward Friend had spoken of bribes, bet milese they weld
prove thew bribes were @fermi W the witnesses they could
not be beard. If Vilmicarti bad given bribes, he had net
acted within the scope of his *Whatley, sad the widest&
could not be received.

TOWBOAT, OCT. IT.
The House resumed proceedings exactly at 10 o'clock.
A 'endow's; from the Treasury preseated at the Bar—
lst. Au Acconat of the Revenue for the last Year! and..
An account of the expenses interred iu the proceed-
lugs instituted against her Majesty, as far as the same can
be made up to the present date.—Counsel were then
called in.
The LORD CHANCELLOR stated to the House the
position In which the proceedings were on adjourning
yesterday. Without offering an opinion whether Vilma-
card ought to be considered as an agent or not, his Lord-
ship thought that resort should be had to the Learned
Judges, in order to know what, under similar circum-
stances, would be the course of proceedings is the Courts
below. The ease be would have stated to them thus taw.
If, in the trial of a civil action, or of am indictment. eel.
deuce were gives, en the cross examination of a witness
examined in chief on the part of the proseentios.lfrora
which it might be inferred that A. B. a pone* trot exa-
mined as a witness, bad been employed as an agent of
the plaintiff or prosecutor to collect evidence out his be.
half; and if the defendant should propse to examine a
person to prove that the said A. B. had offered a bribe to
C. 1). to give evidenoe, C. D. not having been a witness
examined for the plaintiff or prosecutor, and there being
no proof that A. B. bad authority to use undue means to
obtain evidence, would Melt examination be permitted by
the practice of the Couto of Law?
Earl CiKEY.—As an individual, was Indisposed to
troubled the Learned Judges on the subject ; for what-
ever their opinion might be, he ceald never alter his
own' that justice would not be done, unless the Counsel
for her Majesty were allowed to proceed with the
evidence which they had tendered, to prove that the
whole case against her Majesty was bottomed in a
system of conspiracy, for the subornation of perjury!
(Cries of Hear, hear '—from all sides of the House ;l—)
Eia any case, whether on the part of the presecation or
defence, a suspicion is excited that an attempt has been
made. by corrupting a 'torso's, to impose • false case on the
Court, whenever that suspicion arises it is the duty of the
Court to•institute an immediate enquiry into the fret.—
Their Lordships were bound to du so now, antis they wished
to shut their ears to all evidence which might by possibility
have the effect of establishing that the whole of the cuss
against her blitirsty was a foul conspiracy, resting or fah'
and asberaed testimony, to deprive a high and illustrious
individual of those possession, without which all that life
eau give is of ae valets. The evidence offered to prove the
exhiteace eta compirecy, was even of a stronger nature than
that tendered yesterday, and which he (the Noble Earl) felt
persuaded ought to have been received. 'their Luedobips
would 'either do justice to their own character, Nor stood
with the public in the situation they must wish so staqd, if
they refused to enquire into the conspiracy ; without which
substantial justice could not be obtained.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL was iu favour of having the
opinions of the Judges on this point.
Lord ERSKINE said, the attempt of Rastelli to corrupt
witnesses was unexampled in the history or jurisprudence I
and were their Lordships, with the knowledge of ilea. Get.**
suffer the mutter to rest here f —lf the Counsel for bee
Majesty proved various acts of suboruatiou of witnewes, how
were their Lordships to know whether the witnesses already
examined had nut been tri °cured by these meant. It was the
duty of the Count for the defeuce to bring forward evidence
to prove this enuspiracy ; and it was the duty of 'lrk Lord-
ships, as he concerned. to herr that evidence and decide
upuu it. It was rruved that an agent Of the Milan Com.
engem offered to bribe a single person to give evidence
mg sinst the Queen; this single prow of the conspiracy tainted
she whole evidence.
The Errl of LAUDERDALE objected to the course ad-
vised by the Noble Lord (Grey), as certainly tending to vio-
late the rules of tVilit:llCe. wLoch regarded the Pugh ..t and
the lowed equally. The agency of Yilinicarti had never
been proved. As fur as Cul. Brown could be considered tw
concerned iu swim; fur the case. that person might be looked
upon :is the ageut of the Colonel tit the tune time couverA.
tom tool place, but he had canting to du a nth the agency
which it had been timucl neceioary to eoa.-titate, a view
to inquiry. In fact the only nay OA prewiaell ;twit' of
cutoiag al the truth, was by abiding by the rules of the
courts bents, and deciding upon legal ditficuities, with the
Lenrneil Judges.
Lord ItOSSL Y N said, that the rules of evidence Mablished
in the Courts below, were eernniuty adopted us the hen
means of arriving at the truth, in the caws which generally
occurs e.l.

------. ----
Earl GROSVENOR was in favour or getting thr question
to the Judges, leaving, it to lie afterwards detertuniad what
c1i...cl that opillioll might to ..iave on the Hogue. lie embrat ed 'l/4
.. '
....s opportunity or (awning, that though he could nut bay ....•
Ili, intuit vacs made as to the farts of the case, he bad cow.. - . , .
pletely made up Lie 111111 d that the made of pow ceding was
ir nitiii...l Oil law, awl that it was u.:e in which the House 'l' 39"....—,1 r, to
~
could nut he iavariditly hound by 'mkt rule. It had beta e , t •
, .r 1 Biked, ..h; “AA not Viltuicarti liiithelf called us an evidence. ll• I ..utit
Tile ohm: was impossible. Übe was the corium agent re. , •,. .4 '
presented, it uas impossible that her Ntajesty's Couns...l could W•t4 . ""*". I.
t venture to call hint as a witness. His
.couduct was only so '4,..., a ": '
be gut at by some soli verse of examivatiaa, as that lakieb AN '7, ~o_,.
bad bre' ytotetday Wavered ; and galas URI' Lendeltire vQ.; v. t "li'