The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-02 00:00:00

THE SUN; LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 2, 1855

-ir P Pla /—Or 1) All 1,1 Al-

HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.)

PROMOTION IN THE ARMY.
Mr. LAYARD presented a petition from Aylesbury in
favour of the motion of Lord Goderich.

Viscount GODERICH then rose to move that an hum-
ble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that she
will be graciously, pleased to take into her consideration
the present system of promotion in her Majesty's army,
under which non-commissioned officers rarely attain to the
rank of commissioned officer, and scarcely ever to that of
field officer, and humbly to recommend to her Majesty
that it is the opinion of this house that the said system is
injurious to the public service, and unjust to the private
soldier in her Majesty's army. The noble lord said, that
although he felt he had more need than usual to ask the
kind indulgence of the house, he did not think hon. gen-
tlemen would consider that an apology was needed from
any member who might take up a portion of their time
in asking their attention to a question of such great im-
portance and interest at the present moment as the system
of promotion in the army and our military organisation.
(Hear.) At a moment like this, when we were engaged in
a great contest, and when if we had not met with great
disasters our army was at least placed in a perilous and
critical position—when the minds of the people of this
country were occupied by little else than the consideration
of the condition of that army—and when they were neces-
sarily asking themselves the question, "What is the cause
of the evils which have befallen it ?"—the house would
not, he was quite certain, grudge any time that might be
occupied in the discussion of any question which might
be supposed to bear upon the efficiency of the army. (Hear.)
The people of this country were of opinion that there was
but one principle by the application of which we might
hope to obtain a safe deliverance from our elifficulties and
dangers—and the loud and deep and earnest demand
of the people was that the house and the Government,
whatever the Government might be, should act upon
this one principle in their selection of persons to fill
any office, be it civil or be it military—namely, that
of placing in every post of trust and command that
man only who is most fitting to fill it—(hear)—looking
simply to his qualifications for discharging well and wor-
thily the duties of that office, without considering the
question of his position in office, his connection with party,
or any personal feeling whatever. (Hear, hear.) It would
hardly be urged that that principle had been adopted in
our present system of military pro notion. It was not
necessary that he should go into any long description of '
what that system was. The theory was that the right of
promotion rested solely with the Crown, and was exercised
by the commander in-chief. But by the purchase system
which had grown up in our army, though it had never
been established by any law, and which was a system of
bargain and sale between individual officers - (no, no,
hear, hear)—permitted and regulated by the Queen's re-
gulations and the orders of the Horse Guards, the selection
of the commander-in-chief was limited to persons whose
names were on the 'purchase-list of the regiment. Although
the Horse Guards attempted to regulate the sums paid for
commissions, it was notorious to every one that much
larger sums were paid than was allowed by the Queen's
regulations. When a vacancy was caused by the death,
dismissal, or promotion of an officer, it was filled up by the
Horse Guards without purchase, and this he took it was
the safety-valve of the system, but for which poor merit
would have no chance of advancement in the army. At
the same time it involved the great anomaly and injustice
that the family of an officer who died received no benefit
from the sums he had invested in the purchase of commis-
sions. Another way by which persons not possessing for-
tunes sufficient to enable them to purchase commissions
might obtain them was, as rewards for proficiency at
Sandhurst ; but he believed he was right in saying
that that military college had but a small influence on
the character of the officers in the army. The number
of persons who, having studied there, received commis-
sions was not large, and the college was altogether ina-
dequate to the wants of such an army as ours. (Hear.)
The officers of our army were, generally speaking, drawn
from, he would not say the aristocratic or the noble, but
the wealthy classes. The soldiers were drawn from very
different classes, and between the two there was a gulf to
pass, which, 'though it was occasionally passel, could
hardly be a reasonable object of ambition to the private
soldier when ho entered the army. The hon. member for
Richmond, and the hon. and gallant member for Abing-
don, having respectively given notices of motion upon the
subjects of Sandhurst College and the sale and purchase
of commissions, he should chiefly confine his attention to
the manner in which the purchase system affected the non-
commissioned officers and private soldiers. The present
time afforded an opportunity of dealing with this part of
the subject which in time of peace did not exist. By the
increase of promotion from the ranks you would pave the
way for an alteration in the whole system, you would in-
, fuse a new spirit into the ranks of the officers, and would
thus obtain time to deal with what he fully admitted to
be a most complicated and difficult question—the aboli-
tion of purchase. There were involved in that system the
rights of individuals, and any attempt to abolish it with-
out compensation would be simple confiscation, which ho
should be the last man to advocate or not to oppose • but
he believed that that system was inconsistent with the ad-
vancement of merit, and with the sound principles which
aught to guide a country like this, and which were there-
fore deserving of the attention of the Government and of
the House of Commons. He need hardly enlarge upon
that part of his resolution by which he asked the house to
declare that privates or non-commissioned officers rarely
attained to the rank of field officers or to the command
of regiments, because he believed it was notoriously true
that the majority, almost the universality of the superior
officers of the army were persons who had never been in
the ranks. Instances of such men as Sir John Elley
might be quoted in opposition to this ; but he would ask
those adducing such instances to be sure that they made
against his argument. Some years ago, it was stated .
that Colonel Cureton, whose distinguished gallantry
in one of our great Indian campaigns then attracted
much attention, had risen from the ranks; but, soon
afterwards, he (Lord Goderich) found, from a me-
moir of the gallant colonel, which was published, that•he
was the son of a man whose rank, though he was poor,
would have entitled him to a commission, that Mr. Cure-
ton enlisted against the will of his father at the time of the
Peninsular war, and that it was owing to these circum-
stances, more even than to his great and indisputable
merits, that the Duke of Wellington made him a sergeant,
and afterwards obtained for him a commission. Such a
. case as this seemed to him (Lord Goderich) to be no objec-
tion to the position which he was laying down. The pro-
motion of non-commissioned officers to the rank of subal-
terns was much more frequent than their promotion to be
field-officers or to command regiments; and the posts of
quartermasters and paymasters were held almost exclu-
sively by men who had risen from the ranks, because those
officers had to discharge unpleasant and clerkly duties
which other gentlemen were not willing to discharge. He
would state to the house the facts of the promotions which
had taken place of late, when, owing to our being at war,
and to the number of death vacancies at the disposal of
the Horse Guards, the value of a commission was next to
nothing. He could only ascertain the original circum-
stances of persons promoted to the ranks of ensigns and
cornets. Taking that list, there had been since the Ist of
October—that was since the promotions for this war
began-521 ensigns' and cornets' commissions filled up at
the Horse Guards. Of these 150 had been filled up by
purchase. Of the 371 which had been given without
purchase 266 had been given to persons described by
the somewhat equivocal title of "gents," 39 to militia
officers' and 66 to sergeants. Among this 66 were in-
cluded 40 sergeants promoted under the system introduced
by the right hon. gentleman the member for South Wilt-
shire (Mr. Herbert), and consequently he should almost
be justified in supposing that but for that change of system
on 26 sergeants would have received commissions. If this
was the practice followed in time of war, when the social
difficulties which were urged against the change would
toll much lass than in time of peace, because one campaign
would produce in men fighting side by side more
friendly feeling than ono ten years' association in
time of peace, he thought he had established his
case, that it was not the practice of the Horse Guards to
hold out to soldiers any certain hopes that—except for
deeds of extraordinary vales, which had always been re-
warded, as they deserved, with commissions—their merit
would be honoured by promotion to the rank of commis-
sioned officers. If that was the principle, ho would ask
the house to consider whether it was advantageou
asked of the soldierthe possession not only of physicas. You
l cour-
age, but also of devotion, of self-sacrifice, of endurance,
of privation, of patriotism, and of loyalty—all qualities
which contained at least the germs of military genius, and
which formed the foundation of the character you eoquited
in those filling the highest posts in your army; and yet you
held out no hope that if ho displayed military genius, cour-
age, and ability, ho would meet with the reward of mili-
tary command. Let them consider the case of France, and
say whether the wars of Napoleon, and the army which he
commanded, did not prove that is every rank of society
might be found men fit for military command. The mar-
shal whom the French army called "Le brave des braves"
was the son of a cooper at Senlis. Massena was the sou of
a simple citizen at Nice. He enlisted in the French army
before the revolution as a private soldier, but having no
hope of promotion left it. After the system was changed
ho re-entered it, and rose to be Is marshal of France, and
to be called by Napoleon "the child of victory." He might
be told that this was applicable to France, but not to Eng-
land. (Hear, hear.) Did the hon. gentleman why cheered
mean to say that our soldiers were less fit to command than
were those of France? Did the hon. gentleman mean that
the English soldier wanted the qualities which entitled
him to the confidence of his country? To refute any such
allegation, he (Lord Goderich) would appeal to the letters
which had been written by soldiers engaged in the present
campaign • he would appeal to the hon. member for
Northamptonshire (Mr. Stafford), who had deserved
the thanks and respect of all by devoting himself to
the alleviation of the suffering of our 'wounded
soldiers. He would ask him whether ho had
learned at their death-beds lessons of resignation, of
loyalty, and gentleness which he might never have learned
in the best circles of'London society ? (Hear.) For many
years the attention of successive Governments and of suc-
cessive Secretaries at War had been devoted to improving
the condition and the education of soldiers. Did not this
improvement of their education give them a greater claim
to promotion ? He should hardly be toll that our soldiers
were wanting in courage. If ho were, he would appeal to
tho hon. and gallant gentleman near him (Sir Do Lacy
---- Evans) who was present at the " soldiers' battle," and
could tell of their deeds on that occasion, and who could
tell of the'deeds of Sergeant Sullivan whom ho mentioned
in his despatch, but whose name was, in obedience to pue-
rile and cruel etiquette—(cheers)---struck out of the de-
ipateh of the Commander-in-Chief, and over whom twelve
gentleman had since been appointed to ensigncies in his own
regiment. If it were admitted that it would be just to
change our system, he would ask the house to consider
whether it would be expedient. He only asked that they
should do upon system something more than had been done
by the right hon. gentleman the member for Wiltshire
(Mr. S. Herbert), but which that right hon. gentleman had
established on no firm or permanent basis. At the meet-
ing of Parliament before Christmas that right hon. gentle-
man, in supporting the Foreign Enlistment Bill, com-
plained of the difficulty of obtaining recruits such as were
required for the- arduous service in the 'Crimea. This
difficulty would not have been so great had it been possible
for tho recruiting sergeant to have said to every man who
would enlist, that if ho possessed knowledge, intelligence,
and genius for command, he might rise to any position
to which his talents entitled him. (Hear, hoar.) If the
system were changed you might obtain recruits from
classes the members of which now never entered the army
at all. Since the Ist of October 416 men had received
commissions who had never been in the army before.
They were all mere youths of the description of which
the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Herbert) complained as
inadequate to the work of the campaign. Of course in
the present state of affairs it was not long before a man
was sent on active service, and he then wont out with,

it was true, all that youthful courage, generosity, and deer°.
" far which t‘t! _ye to.i distin-
guisiied, but without any military knowledge eec..pt such
as he had gained by his examination. Ho went'out at an
age which in other pursuits ho would not be thought fit to
be placed in responsible situations or to have the command
of men. Soon after he went out ho might have to command
a picket, where upon his skill, vigilance, and knowledge
might depend, as before now had depended, the safety of
the army. Before he went on duty his commencing officer
would probably send for bins and say, " You go on picket
to-night. Perhaps you may not wall know the nature of
the duty, but Sergeant So-and-So is a very steady, experi-
enced man ; he will go with you and *ill tell you what to
do." Surely it was au inversion of common sense to place
a man in command of any part of a regiment who was
obliged to take his instructions from a non-commissioned
officer. (Hear.) A story, which he knew to be true, had
been told to him of a young and gallant officer who first
saw a battle en Lthe heights of the Alma, and who, in
writing to his mother afterwards, said, when the balls
began to fall thick around him and men were dropping on
every side of him, he felt for a few moments a thrill of
terror, and was hesitating whether ho should flee. At that
moment a great tall sergeant behind him took him by the
back of the neck and pushed him into the thick of the
battle. (A laugh.) Hon. gentlemen might laugh, but the
story was true. The young officer went on to say that
from that moment he never felt fear, and he must have
been a gallant man to have told the story himself. (Hear.)
It was by that sergeant that he was made a-soldier. (Hear.)
A gallant friend of his (Lord Goderich) now in command
of one of her Majesty's regiments, and a most distinguished
officer, told him—speaking on the subject of his (Lord
Goderich's)presentmotiou—that the present system affected
the efficiency of the army not only in time of war,
but in time of peace. (Hear, hear.) He said a short
time after he joined his regiment the command of
his company devolved upon him. The commanding officer
sent for him, and said, " You do not, of course, know your
duties'as commander of a company, but Sergeant-Major So
and-So is an experienced man, and he will explain to you
what you should do." (Hear.) His (Lord Goderich's)
friend followed that advice, and the result was that he ra-
pidly rose to the rank of a colonel—(an ironical laugh)—
and had the pleasure afterwards of recommending the ser-
neant enajor to an ensigncy. But he (Lord Goderich) con-
tended that it was an inversion of common sense to have
promoted the officer before the sergeant-major. He did
not for a moment propose that the commissions in the
army should be held exclusively, or even mainly, by men
rising from the rank of private soldiers. All he said was
that the present proportions should be changed. He had
been asked why he did net frame his motion for a com-
mittee. He had not done se first, because the ground was
occupied, and secondly, because the change he was new
urging was one which could be made now, and for making
which the present time was peculiarly favourable, which
might not be the case if they waited to have the report of
a committee. (Hear.) We were now fighting side by side
With a gallant ally, in whose army a different system
existed, and which army, if report spoke true, bore a strik-
ing contrast to our own. He thought there was testimony
enough to show that the French army was altogether in a
better condition than our own, and that we ought to allow no
false pride to prevent us examining into their system, and
considering whether we could not assimilate our own to ite
With respect to the recent promotion of one meritorious
sergeant in each regiment, it that system had been a sound
one, they would not have had his noble friend (Lord Pal-
merston) telling the hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. French)
the other night, that Sergeant Sullivan could not be pro-
moted, because it was impossible to promote more than one
sergeant in a regiment. (Hear.) He had been told out of
doers, and he might be told in that house, that the men
themselves did not like to be promoted, because when so
promoted they found their position uncomfortable. No
doubt that would be so if they only promoted one sergeant
in every regiment. That was the very reason why he asked
the house to change the system. If they had a body of men
promoted from the ranks, and thoroughly well-knit toge-
ther, he had no doubt they would live and act together in
a satisfactory manner; bat if there were only compara-
tively a few of them promoted from time to time, and if
they were regarded as black swans, as they were occasion-
ally, though he knew well that a gentleman would never
so look upon them, the men so promoted would be liable
to feel themselves in a peculiar and anomalous position.
And surely he was justified in saying the gentlemen of
England would never refuse to serve their country because
they shared the honours and privations of the military pro-
fession with men who had risen from the ranks. (Hear,
house should
deve ,0 atinuidloloeynali,e
jeunrdy,heb
but
hear.) He knew the officers in the British army were
asn
'" a fair field and no layout" to another class of men. He
thatot asking
o utltida that he
ti
ve
hoped, if he should be followed in the debate by the noble
lord at the head of the Government, that noble lord would
not accuse him, as he had accused his hon. friend the mem-
isr for Aylesbury (Alr. L iyaid), of having indulged
in " vulgar declamation against the aristocracy." He (Lord
Goderich) had done no such thing—ho was only asking to
have equal justice meted out to all classes of men in the
army. Tacitus told us of the ancient Germans—" Reges
ex nobilitate, et duces et virtute sumunt." He (Lord
Goderich) would that we should henceforth choose our
military commanders by the example of our German fore-
fathers—namely, for their merit and their merit alone, by
which we should promote the efficiency of the army, and
do justice to the claims of those brave men to whom, by
common consent, much mere than to their commanders,
did we owe the victories of the last campaign. We should
then reward the heroes of the Alma, Balaklava, and In-
kerman—then, as in the days of the first Napoleon, every
helmet weuld catch and reflect some beam of glory from
victory; and we should build a sound and satisfactory
military organisation, because we should lay its founda-
tions on the principles of reason and justice.
Mr. F. PEEL said the system of which the noble lord
complained might be faulty in principle and defective in
theory ; but it could not be said with truth that in its ac-
tual working it had operated injuriously to the interests
of this country or to the honour and credit of the Eng-
lish army. If he had all the armies of Europe brought to-
gather before him, and if he wanted to inquire to which
among those armies he should. refer if -he-desired to find
officers distinguished for their high sense of personal
honour, eminent for their courage and for their unshrink-
ing bravery, and possessing also, in a superior degree, the
habits and feelings of gentlemen, the army to which he
should be referred would be the English army and its
officers. (Hear, hoar.) The question which theyniest con-
sider was, whether these were the qualifications which were
indispensable to English officers? He did not for a moment
wish to underrate men taken from the ranks, familiar as
they were with all the duties of a soldier, and with the
feelings of the class from which they sprang ; but when he
eonsidered the nature of our military system, and the im-
portant functions the officers of the English army had to
fulfil, especially in the colonies, where they had often to
assist in the administration of even civil affairs, he did not
think there were any qualities more indispensable to an
English officer than those to which he had alluded. (Hear.)
The' noble lord's view was that the system to which hehad
referred was a system which, it the terms of his motion,
acted injuriously and unjustly to the private soldiers in the
army. (Hear, hear.) But much of what the noble lord had
said rested upon theory, to use his own expression; and he
thought the noble lord had failed to point out in what way
the present system did act injuriously on the private soldier
or impeded the disposition to enlist into the service. The
noble lord admitted that much had been done to facilitate
the infusion of non-commissioned officers and privates
among the officers of the army, and what he (the noble lord)
wanted was that the authorities at the Horse Guards should
systematise what theyhad been doing in that way; but the
noble lord had not favoured the house with any definite
plan of his own for doing that. His (Mr. Peol'e)epinion was
that if they wanted to make the promotion of non-commis-
sioned officers a system, the system that now prevailed
must give way. (Hear, and a laugh.) The question which
the noble lord had raised affected the whole system
of promotion in the army by purchase. He (Mr. Peel)
had no prejudice against the advancement of the private
soldier. if he found a man hi the ranks who had distin-
guished himself in any way, or shown an aptitude for
command, he would say by all means let him not be lost
sight of ; but he thought the noble lord brought a some-
what unjust accusation against the Government, when he
said they had not acted with sufficient liberality in the
promotion of non-cc mmi sinned officers. He would remind
the noble lord that the Government had no power to act
in this matter without the authority of the house. It
would be unjust to supposo that at the present time no
non-commissioned officers were advanced to the rank of
commissioned officers. There were commissions which fell
vacant by deaths, and the practice was in tilling up those
commissions to bestow them gratuitously on meritorious
persons, upon the responsibility of the Commander-in-
Chief, making at the same time some provision for the
widows and families of the officers so dying, and who had
held previously those commissions. Those death commis-
sions were given in the first place to bring young cadets
who had passed an examination at the college of Sandhurst
and had proved their capacity for the military profession.
They were given, in the next place, to the sons of aged and
meritorious officers; and, again, to non-commissioned offi-
cers who had distinguished themselves and been reported
deservingas of promotion, and who, let him add—for that
was important—were themselves willing to accept a com-
mission—(hear )—for it 'a as not every nen-commissioned
officer who would accept one. He found that the number
of non-commissioned officers in the last five years who hid
been proraoted in that way was 129, and that the number
who had been promoted in regiments serving in the Crimea
was not 66, as had been represented by the noble lord, but
90, so that 219 non-commissioned officers had been pro-
moted to commissions in the army within that period. He
thought that was an indication of the manner in which the
Government was disposed to . deal with this question.
Besides, owing to the necessity for increasing the strength
of the armies in the Crimea the commissions had to be
increased in proportion, and 100 ensigneies had been dis-
posed of, which realised from 40,00 d/. to 50,0001., which
would ferns a fund when the war was over, and
when the half-pay would come to be considered. Now
there were three modes by which vacancies beyond the
first step could be filled up ; namely, by seniority—by merit
—or by purchase. With respect to the system of put chase,
he instanced the case of a major's vacancy occurring in a
regiment. It would be offered for purchase to the senior
captain—a span well acquainted with his profession and
fully competent to the discharge of the duties ; but he was
a man of no means,- and was obliged therefore to decline
the seniority. The captain next to him had, perhaps, the
means, and would obtain the majority, and in that case he
thought a hardship weuld be inflicted upon the senior cap-
tain, and he should most certainly be glad if any means
could be adopted for remedying such hardship. But the
house should remember on the other hand that it, was not
desirable to have eery old officers, and especially field
officers, in the army, and yet the results of abolishing the
purchase system and adopting that of seniority would be
to extend the average age of officers of the army.
greatly
The hope of advancement, too, was almost entirely incon-
sistent with the system of promotion by seniority. The
lowest, for instance, in a list of 16 captains might be de-
sirous of obtaining a higher position, and be ambitious of
using his talents for the interest of his country in a wider
but while it was necessary for him to
sphere of action,
advance by degrees through the whole of his senior cap-
tains to arrive at his majority, his prospects of attaining
the object of his ambition would be very limited indeed.
Ho believed, therefore, that the prospect of rapid promo-
tion by purchase had the effect of bringing into tne army
thepublic spirit and enterprise of
large amount of p d
to
a very
the country. But it appeare be overlooked to a great
extent that there were
which required to be satisfied before the commission could
vin to ass en examnation,
be obtained, every officer ha g_ qualifications for
and being called upon to prove his qualificationi )
ought to obtain. (Hear, ear.
higher post which no s hr. the
®tenth h • beneficial effect of e purchase system was that
Another t, of the aced officers. Con-
it got rid, to a great exten p
madeold men to
staut complaints were of appointing
h h the rm vas
come com-
mandsin the army ; but the way in w
was
come to be officered by comparatively young amen
his very system of promotion
mainly to be attributed to this very
f • an old
would be the inducement for
by purchase. Where
masted t 1l
his
ommis.
not o
officer to retire, if he were _ I
ld
? .) t we.ei tin fact,
sion upon leaving the service
r to resort to some violent means
be indispensably necessa
(0, laugh)—and that would be a
of removing the aged—y

course of conduct extremely painful and hurtful to the
feelings of all parties. If the present system of promotion
by purchase were abolished, it would cause a complete
stagnation in the current of yromotion. Ho found that
the number of officers who had retired by purchase, durine
the last five years, had been 30 lieutenant"-colonels, 29
majors- 93 captains, 115 1 ieutenarts, and 44 ensigns; and
the total value of their commies,ons was not less than
500,00,3. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the third mode
of promotion—byinerit as it is called—the case of Sergeant,
Sullivan offered no great encouragement to any Govern-
ment to enter upon such a system. Who was to bo the
judge of the relative merits of the different candidates for
promotion? In this particular case the Horse Guards in-
structed Lordßaglan that he might promote one sergeant-
major of each regiment. The Government knew nothing
of the grounds upon which each person was selected, and
ever since it had been known that 'Sergeant Sullivan had
not been selected, the Government had been attacked by
ore hon. member after another, asking stay he had net
been promoted. If they were to confide to the Govern-
ment the task of promoting men according to their merit,
and of ascertaining the relative degrees of merit, the house
would bo placing upon - the shoulders of the Government
au invidious duty, which it would be impossible for them
to discharge. (Hear, hear.) One effect of such a step
also would be, to confer upon the regiments at home a
great and undue advantage over those in the colonies,
where the respective merits could not be so easily ascer-
tained. Promotion by merit would, in effect, become
promotion by favouritism. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord
who hronght forward the motion had stated that the
sale of commissions was not legalised. In this respect the
noble lord was in error, for the 49 Geo. cap. 126, ex-
pressly refers to the sale or purchase of commissions, upo;
such terms as may be fixed by the Queen's regulations.
But there were in connection with the system of promo-
tion many serious difficulties, not to be remedied without
very deliberate consideration of the whole bearing of the
question. The present value of the commissions held by
officers in the army, supposing they were to buy up all the
rights of those only who are now serving in the Crimea,
would exceed the sum of two millions. In addition to this,
the impracticability of effectually abolishing the sale and
purchase of commissions must also be borne in mind. Sup.
pose the house were to decide that no ensign should be ap-
pointed by purchase, yet when those officers came to rise
from rank to rank, it would be found that money would
always be brought to bear in order to displace those who
stood in the way of the desired promotion. In India, al-
though no commissions were allowed to be sold, it fre-
quently occurred that, in order to induce an old officer to
retire, those below him in rank raised a sum of money
among them, and presented it to him in order to get him
away. As a further evidence of the little -value to be
placed upon regulations of this kind, it was a well-known
fact that, although it was prohibited to give for a commis-
sion any larger sum than that stated in the _Queen's regu-
lations, sums considerably higher were frequently given by
persons of wealth. (Hear, hear.) So far as he had been
able to look into the question, he saw many advantages
connected with the present system which he should be
most sorry to see abolished. Upon the other hand, he saw
considerable inconveniences in the plan, proposed by the
noble lord, not the least of which was that complete stag-
nation in the current of promotion which would ensue. For
these reasons he called upon the house not to give its sanc-
tion to the motion of the noble lord. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Lord LOVAINE and Mr. °TWAY,
Colonel SIBTHORP had heard with pleasure the speech
of the hon. gentleman the Under-Secretary of War, and
that of the noble lord (Lord Lovaine.) Our system had
gone on for many years, and under it our army had ob-
tained a high character, and therefore he was opposed to
change. It was' better to let well enough alone, and he
was prepared to vote against the motion of the noble lord.
Mr. WARNER agreed with the noble lord who sub-
mitted the motion to the house, that the only second rule
to adopt was that of a combination of seniority and merit.
But there wax a question, which had not been touched, of
very great importance—where were we to get our soldiers
from at all ? 'We could not resort to the conscription, and
men were unwilling to enlist. He feared we had syste-
matically endeavoured to degrade the men in our army.
Hon. members spoke disparagingly of the foreign legion last
year, and the consequence of the unjustifiable and most
offensive character given the men likely to compose inch a
force was, that the Government failed to raise it. (Hear,
hear.) Much the same course was pursued towards our
own soldiers. We treated them as if they belonged to an
inferior class, and we subjected them to degrading punish-
ments, and the consequence was that soldiers would not
come forward willingly when wanted. He hoped that the
system of promotion by purchase would be done away
with. There were two things wanted—military talent at
the head of an army, and a number of men sufficient to
maintain the force ; and to secure these two things a
change of system was necessary.
Captain SCOBELL regarded the reply made by the hon.
Secretary of War as a routine speech. (Hear, hear.) In
the presence of the Prime Minister he should say that un-
less this question was taken up seriously by him, it would
run away with his Government. Matters could not remain
as they were, and this was a topic that would not go to
sleep until it was put to rest. (A laugh.) Looked at as
an affair of buying and selling, was it, he asked, proper or
rational that the Queen's commissions should be bought
and sold ? No other army in the world did such a thing.
How would it be if the principle of purchase was applied
to the non-commissioned grades? Supposing privates were
allowed to purchase sergeantcies, how would that work?
What sort of sergeants would we have ? Why, our ser-
geants would become worthless instead of being, as now,
most excellent—for, as a class, the sergeants and corporals
were the most perfect in the British army. iThey learn
their duties by degrees, and they win their promotion by
merit alone. With regard to the buying and selling sys-
tem, it was so rooted in the British army that it would be
difficult to eradicate it; but some beginning might be
made. No more purchases should be allowed after a given
date, and those who had previously purchased should be
held harmless ; and then, should it require two or three
millions to get rid of the whole vicious system, let us pay
it, and assume a right position. He held that the pur-
chasing of commissions did an injury to the aristocracy,
for dull men by it got over the heads of active and one',
getic men, and the character of the whole suffered in
public estimation. Let the system be changed, and let
merit be the cause of promotion, and the aristocracy would
then bear comparison with any class in the community.
The array was at present made a sort of plaything, and
men who had no taste or talent for 'military life en-
tered it and left it without ever thinking of making it a
serious study. But the term aristocracy was a very loose
one, for who could say where aristocracy began and where
it ended ? There was an intermediate class, and this class
formed a considerable portion of those who were interested
in the purchase of commissions. Hon. members had all
the same object in view—to secure the honour and safety
of the country, and to maintain the credit of thearmy. If
they could get an able soldier who was a marquis, they
should glory in him. Nothing was so satisfactory as to
see rank united with talent ; but then it was doubly un-
satisfactory to see rank without talent getting on at a double
pace, while merit was left behind. (Hear.) It had been
said Parliament had been niggard in voting the sums
necessary for the maintenance of our army ; but that was
not so. The army estimates were never refused by the
House of Commons, and they were not chargeable with the
inefficiency of our military establishments. Nothing with
an officer was se high a certificate in the eye of the public
as that he was a Waterloo man ; but nothing• could be
more wrong than to assume that all Waterloo men were
heroes, and fit, in strength and talent, for the arduous ser-
vice of the present day. These men were worn out and
past their prime, and it was not wise to put forward age
when they could get youth and stamina and talent com-
bined. The gallant officer the Secretary of the Admiralty
Board had given the House his opinion of the Horse Guards.
He had said that every one knew it was not unlit or capa-
city, but interest and connection, which ruled promotion
there. That was pretty strong coming from the Ministe-
rial bench, and showed that the question had made con-
siderable way in the country. He said that they should
not be satisfied with a mere consolidation of departments,
but that they must reform the Horse Guards and the army
—and he asked how they could have generals when the first
thing they did was to compel men to lodge a sum of money
and then to purchase every step ? (Hear.) The whole
question rested on this point—Was merit to be superior
to money in the army, or money to merit ? In the profes-
sion to which he belonged it was true that commissions
could net be purchased, but gentlemen could obtain them in
the Admiralty by other moans which he need not particula-
rise. Many able and gallant officers were passed over and
neglected in his profession, and he was himself one of the
neglected. A noble lord in another place who had held
office in the administration before the last, said that if the
administration of the army were assimilated to that of the
navy, the army would be a hotbed of jobbery and trickery.
The fact was that both wanted setting to rights. In one a
man might job his way if he had plenty of money ; in the
other a man might job his way if ho had plenty of interest
(Hear.) He did not deny that war gave a man some chance
of promotion, but he was speaking of the ordinary state of
things. When they could find sergeants and corporals suffi-
ciently educated to advance them, it was wise to give them
promotion; but many sergeants and corporalshad net educa-
tion enoagh to be advanced to commissions. In such a case
they should reward them otherwise, and he was a great ad-
vocate for the establishment of the order of merit, which
would descend to the lowest man in the army. (fleer,
hear.) He would heartily supportfthe motion, and refer
to a few instances, taken at random from the Army List,
to show the consequences of the present system. He found
in one regiment an officer of eight years' standing; the next
to him was also of eight years' standing; but then follow°,
officers of sixteen, fourteen, and twelve years' standing. In
another regiment the first man was of eight years' stand-
ing; the neat man of thirty years' standing ; the next of
eight, and the next of sixteen. How could things go on
satisfactorily according to that system ? (Hoar.) They saw
the grey-headed man placed behind the youth, and that «as
enough to damp the ardour of any but an English army,
which it would take a great deal to damp. (Hear.) He
believed that in the Dragoons things were in the same way
He found that an officer of nine years' standing was above
officers of fourteen and eighteen years' standing. This was
the first motion of a series that was coming before the
house, and he trusted the house would deal with it iu a suffi-
ciently encouraging way, that was the proper place to make
regulations to change the laws, and he trusted the noble
lord at the head of the Government would come forward
and make the changes that were called for by the times.
Let them do it slowly if they would, but let them not stand
still. (Hear.) The system could not stand, and if any
further disasters should occur the Government would be
tripped up on this, if on no other question. (Hear.)
Sir J. WALSH always thought that one of the conse-
quences of the disastrous and ill-conceived expedition to
Sebastopol would be that it would throw discredit upon
the whole military system. (Hear.) Their regimental
system had worked well, and might bear comparisontwi
that of any other nation in Europe. The whole,
cf_
o
s
military annals demonstrated its superiority, iwhi h
seat
substantiated and confirmed by the recent ►
and ex-
ploits of their army. (Hear, hear.) He mustgi his
ve
vote against the motion of the noble viscount.ht
for
-
Lord SEYMOUR said the noble lord who brou,cy
ward this motion pleaded that death vacancies should be
given to private soldiers. Now what would be the effect
of this? The country was calling for younger officers ; the
certain effect of this system would be the introduction of
older officers. The country was calling for educated °Ri-
cers ; under this system education must be given up alto-
gether. Then, intim() of peace, this system would of ne-
cessity degenerate into a combined system of seniority sad
favouritism. The two systems, in fact, ware now in ope-
ration in our own army. In the artillery there was no
purchase— in the line there was. The consequence was
that in the artillery there Was the greatest difficulty in
getting rid of old officers. If the- same system were
adopted in the line, the pension list would be swelled to a
frightful extent, or the army would be encumbered by old
and incapable officers. He denied that purchase excluded
qualification, which, on the contrary, might be carried as
high as in any of the Continental armies. He complained
that the motion before the house condemned the present
system without offering any other plan in its place.
Mr. J. BALL supported the motion as a means of in-
creasing the number of recruits, and he contended that,

from the changed habits of society, working men were now
b.:come fit associates for the English gently.
Lord ELCHO objected to the motion as unnecessary,
because it was admitted that, within -a very recent period,
nearly 100 commissions heel been given to private soldiers.
He could not agree to the declaration that the present
system was injurious to the army or to the public service;
and though he would rejoice to see more of the privates
promoted, still he could not, in obedience to the pressure
from without, adopt an abstract resolution which there
was no feasible plan of carrying into practice.
Sir DE LACY EVANS, who was received with loud
cheers from both sides of the house, said—l have not come
down to this house for the purpose of making what is gene-
rally called a speech, but as this is a subject upon which I
have on former occasions offered my humble opinion to the
house, I did thick it my duty to offer a very few words
upon the motion of my noble friend, and they shall be very
few. The noble lord who has just so well addressed the
house has expressed his great apprehension lest the house
should be driven into some imprudent resolution in conse-
quence of a cry which has arisen in the country upon this
subject. I, at all events, am one of the humble individuals
—for the house holds a great many others who-are in the
same situation—who are not in the slightest degree influ-
enced by that cry. (Hear, hear.) lam merely offering an
opinion at this moment which has been formed, not hastily,
but after long and serious deliberation. Now, there have
been various objections raised to this motion of the noble
lord the member for Huddersfield; one has been urged by
the Under-Secretary of the Wer Department—but I am
not quite certain, from the transmutation of offices that is
taking place, whether I am addressing him by his right
title ; but the hon. gentleman has dealt with the financial
part of the question. Both he and the noble lord the mem-
ber for Totness dwelt strongly upon the results of the com-
mission of 1840, at the head of which, say they, was the
illustrious Duke of Wellington. There were some other
commissions referred to by the noble lord behind, but that
was the principal one. Now, I must confess, sir, these
commissions have not supreme authority over my mind,
because the decisions of these commissions were, in point
of fact, only the decisions of the noble duke himself. There
was no military man upon any of these commissions who
sincerely believed in the decisions—(oh, oh)—because we
all well know that it was no use for any military man to
presume to dictate to the noble duke. That is not to be
wondered at, because the transeendantabilities and military
genius of the Duke of Wellington were sufficient to overawe,
not to convince, any soldier. No doubt, those decisions
were founded upon the deliberate convictions of the noble
duke ; but are we te remain for ever under the law of the
Modes and Persians? (Hear.) Is there to be no change,
because one great man pronounced an opinion, which opi-
nion was not probably espoused out of regard for the army,
but was perhaps based upon other opinions not connected
with the army at all, but opinions connected with politi-
cal matters—as opinions connected with the maintenance
of the aristocracy, which the noble duke conceived to be
of more importance than the efficiency of the army. (Oh,
oh, and cries of no, no.) Hon. members may cry oh, oh, if
they will, but that may have been so, for the noble dukel
after the war became quite a changed mac. Ido not pre-
tend to say that his political opinions entirely guided the
decisions of the noble duke, but he was a totally different
man with regard to the army while he was a politician to
what he was when he had the command of the British
forces in the field. (Hear.) When he was so in command,
and we were at war, he was most precise in his opinions
about the army ; but after the war he seemed to treat
military matters quite as a secondary consideration, com-
pared with political affairs. (Hear.) In fact, political mat-
ters had become more the object of his anxiety than mili-
tary, and therefore I do not bow to the decisions of these
commissions, because they must have been all predeter-
mined. The noble duke's opinion was always in favour of
the existing state of things ; but he was not content with
simply holding that opinion, but he resolved that, inas-
much as the army under his own command had performed
all the actions that he had directed admirably well, there
was no sort of necessity, and could be no sort of necessity,
for any alteration or improvement in military affairs. I
' believe he was just as clearly of the same opinion with re-
gard to politics, but, nevertheless, he was obliged to re-
tract some of his notions in a few political matters. (A.
laugh.) The noble duke, even with his great mind, was
subject to prejudices. Ie was opposed, for instance to the
introduction of metal caps instead of flints. He was also
opposed to the introduction of that most admirable weapon
of which we have made so much use, and from which we
have derived so much benefit—the Minie rifle. And are we
to be told the noble duke's views and opinions must be
dual? Are wo never to deviate from his old system, no
matter how great the improvement suggested may be ?
(Hear.) Well, then, to come more immediately to the
motion before the house, if purchase is such an admirable
thing, why is it not introduced into all the institutions of
the country? Why are not civil offices put up for sale ?
Why are not Secretary of Stateships even put up for sale?
(A laugh.) Why not introduce the system into the navy ?
Why not add it to the artillery? But, sir, it is inconsis-
tent with the institutions of the country ; it is opposed to
the spirit of the age, and since it is neither desired nor ap-
proved by the majority of the community, it is disgraceful
for the house to continuo to sanction it. (Cheers.) But,
sir, some gentleman, with a paltry sixpenny economy, tells
us that if we attempt to establish a system of promotion by
merit, it will cost the country 100,0001. a-year. That is
the statement, I believe, of the hon. gentleman who has
been selected to hold the second place connected with the
management of the war. It will cost us, forsooth, 100,0001.
I think it will be cheap if we get it even at that rate.
(Hear.) Now, sir, it has been said that non-commissioned
officers are promoted; but then they must be the senior
officers of their regiments. If they have served a certain
number of years they are past the time fir promotion ; but
if they happened to belong to a different class the number
of years would not be so narrowly scrutinise& It is said
that if the system of purchase is abolished, it will only
give place to a system of favouritism ; but what is the
course which really takes place under the system of put-
clean ? The fact is, that the system of purchase affords
opportunities for facilitating favouritism. It entirely ex-
cludes the sons of the commonalty, whilst it admits the
sons of thenobility and gentry. Ido not wish to exclude
the sons of the nobility and gentry ; on the contrary, I
desire much to see a larger portion of them in the army
than of the commonalty. (Hear.) What I object to
is, that the system of purchase excludes and confines
from opportunites of raising themselves to the highest ap-
pointments in the service persons who by nature are pos-
sessed of talents which might enable them to render the
greatest services to their country. (Hoar.) It has been
well observed by an hon. gentleman who has spoken to-
night, "Why do you not put up the seats on the bench
for sale ?" The bench stands high in the respect of the
country, and it has been shown that what occurs on the
bench never occurs in the array-ethat is to say, that the
sons of persons in the meet humble positions have risen
to the highest honours, which under the present system
is impossible in the army. (Hear.) Nay, it is almost im-
possible for evlp the sons of the gentry to rise high in the
army. It is eXmost impossible even for them. What is
the situation of persons in my humble position? We are
beaten by time—we are kept back until we are worn out—
(hear)—whilst others who can command the means rise
up, and ate selected for the command of corps in the
army. I really think that when the hen, gentleman (Mr.
F. Peel)—l forget for what place he sits—when he tells us
that 50 or 100 commissions were appointed to the army in
the Crimea, and when he impresses this upon us as a great
economy, that by the sale of these 50 or 100 commissions
all ulterior expense to the country will be avoided, I really
think he is putting the question on a verylow and inferior
ground. (Hear.) I think it is a most discreditable view
of the subject, that these persons—because they possess
more money, or at least their fathers—should be put over
the heads of those non-commissioned officers, not to say
those private soldiers, who have borne all these dangers
and all these difficulties and hardships with unexampled
fortitude and bravery. (Cheers.) You will set aside these
50 or 100 commissions for what ?—because 50,0001. will be
made of them. This is false economy altogether. If this
be a good thing, you are bound to carry it out in all insti-
tutions. You have no alternative. We are, however, gra-
dually approaching an amelioration of the system, not-
withstanding ; for I find it laid down that, at all events,
officers of the army must be gentry. There was a time
when it was contended that they must be all nobility.
(Hear.) There have been good officers of all classes.
Some of the armies of the continent require their officers
to have ten or twelve quarterings of nobility. Princes
have also become great officers, nobles have become great
officers, and so have the gentry; but let us compare the
number of great officers which have arisen in countries
where the highest classes have obtained the highest com-
mands with the numbers of great officers which have ap-
peared in other countries—for instance, at the period of
revolutions, when all classes have had a gree scope for the
development of their talents. You have fifty in one case
to one in the other. In France a number of great officers
arose at the time of the revolution, but it so happened that
we had one superior to them all—but that had nothing to
do with the question. Compare the number, then, when
there was a free scope given to talent. In our country, at
the time of the revolution, which was of a somewhat dif-
ferent character, the person who distinguished himself
most was not a gentleman of great power or position. The
person who distinguished himself most was Mr. Oliver
Cromwell. (Hear, and laughter.) There is another point
which I wish to bring under the notice of Government.
There is a great amelioration going on in the people of this
country, and especially with regard to the army. Let
them read the general orders of the Duke of Wellington,
and compare the statements, which cannot be contested, in
those general orders with any general order of any army of
recent (late, and they will find proofs positive that crimes
and offences of every description took place in a vastly
greater ratio at that timo than they do now. Indepen-
dently of that, in the small force which I commandedis house
3.i years ago, and which was pretty well abused in this h
that there was no
un-
favourable circumstances, it so happened
--(laughter)—which was collected together under such
isbrnent was called
case of capital crime, and no capital p
re
" Wh tawonderful
g Unat Dumbr of people
fwohroinknthewat force.the
had !" It was not by good dis-
cipline, you must have
,but was
ril most imperfect•
for that was necessarily facts (il
haveeer' hseaaird)to me,
Yh t t a even at that time
a compete proof in my min. .
there
' t amelioration in the population of this
had been a erea
country. (dear, hear.) It was also the case in that army
which has now gone out to the Crimea, and which was
before that in Turkey. I cannot call to mind anything
like a capital crime committed by any of those soldiers.
(Hear, hear.) They showed great obedience and pubordi-
nation, and is this the time that they are to he excluded
as a sort of helots, and are not to entertain those aspira-
tions and hopes of distinction which persons belonging to
other classes of society may entertain ? When I passed
amongst the pickets and outposts, and indeed in action, it
often occurred'to me how painful it was to see those men
exposing themselves to such dire miseries, toil, and
wounds, and to almost certain death, eventually, from
disease, with so little of anything to hope from the future.
(Cheers.) I would appeal to gentlemen, to the lords on
the Treasury Bench, who have power to alter this state of
things, that those are men like ourselves—(cheers)—who
in a conventional sense are not gentlemen, which is a
ten* not always used in a right sense. I believe that
there are persons of high rank who are not truly gentle-
men in feeling, whilst you will find persons of humble
birth essentially gentlemen. (Cheers.) I think it is con-
trary to the spirit of the orders of our Sovereign to sup-
pose that anybody in a military rank is not a gentleman.
Vat I trod, that those persons of high authority will lay
it down as a principle, and will be determined to proceed
upon a more liberal system than has hitherto been fol-
lowed in these subjects. You will then find that persons
of still higher condition and better education will then
enter the army. (Hear, hear.) I think that there will
arise no sort of inconvenience or danger whatever from
the adoption of what I consider a very moderateegtrloopm si-
an
tion on the part of the noble lord.
The
heh.if is almost
the member for Bury (Mr. F. Peel) says that
impossible to abolish a system of
purchase. We wore
do awa with close b-
once told thas it was impossible to
the s ystemy of purchase
roughs. (Laughter.) Why, sir,
itself, because as a
n officer dies his
11
may do away with
commission is vacant, and provision is made for his wife
• • have
commissions
and family, But 50 or 100 persons with