The Sun.
London, England, 1855-07-20 00:00:00

dual, who with all the presumption of a red tapist was wont
to speak with such contempt of the statements of general
officers ? Both these noble lords must also have recollected
well what was the condition of the military departments;
yet ho never found them acting fairly by their colleague at
the head of the War Department, and coming forward to
his assistance. He said this because the noble lords sat
upon a commission 17 or 18 years ago, for the express pur-
pose of examining into the military deficiencies of the
country, and which reported that the military arrange-
ments were in a most unsatisfactory and disorganised state.
The fact was, the late Cabinet appeared to suppose they
could carry on a war with the greatest military power in
the world by demonstrations and protocols. (Hear.) While
he was afraid, as regarded our subsequent operations, there
was some found, tion for the remarks of the hon. member
for Manchester, that they were guided by the current of
public opinion and the great dissatisfaction of the public
Press at the inaction of the army, he could not, however,
concur with the hon. gentleman in his denunciation of the
public press, or at least a part of it ; for, it must be recol-
lected, that whatever might have been the amount of un-
just contumely cast upon individuals by the press, it had
conferred immense benefits on the country in awakening
it as to the sufferings of its army. (Hear, bear.) For his
part he did not hesitate to affirm, that were it not for the
press and the loyal and energetic conduct of our noble
ally, the Emperor of the French, the army might have
perished. At the same time he was forced to admit that
the sufferings of the army had been somewhat exaggerated.
Of course he deeply regretted what had occurred; but he
believed a false impression would be conveyed throughout
Europe and the country, if they dwelt in that manner upon
what had been the sufferings in the army. Suffered their
army certainly had, but not to an extent to cause alarm
for their national power, nor as to the result of the contest.
,ptahcie ty
Governmentand determination
Therefore
()fthen, whatever might booble lord at the head
of
his feelings on particular points, he could scarcely feel j cts-
titled in giving a vote that would have the effect of preci-
pitating the noble lord from power. Still he was not quite
sure that the noble lord had displayed that energy which
his friends gave him credit for ; nor was he able to dis-
cern that any great augmentation had as yet been made to
our military strength since his accession to office. (Hear,
hear.) it really seemed that this system of protocolline' at
Vienna had paralysed the exertions of the noble lord. Be-
fore the Duke of Newcastle went out of office a convention
had been entered into, by which a contingent of 20,000
Turkish troops were to be added to our army. Well, six
mouths had elapsed since then, and as yet not a single bat-
talion of those troops hail taken the field. Now he could
not help thinking that was a proof of the want of energy on
the part of the noble lord. Again, eight or nine months
ago they got authority to raise some 4,000 irregular ca-
valry, under General Beatson, and no one could see that
any progress h id been made in the formation of the corps;
whil • with regard to the foreign logien, he believed there
had been great remissness in carrying that measure into
effect, although, if energy had been shown, ho be-
lieved very gratifying results would have followed He
was glad at all events to perceive that his Royal High-
ness the Duke of Cambridge had been appointed to the
command of the legion. But in the case of the legion
they were guilty of the same mistake as in enlisting for
the line, for the recruits were only getting about half
their nominal bounty, the rest being made up in neces-
saries. As for the militia, he would say at once its history
was a continuation of blunders. He had never been in
favour of raising a large militia force, and although they
had now only one-third of that force embodied, he thought
it hail been raised too rapidly. At that moment it was
often found they wore recruiting at one end of a village
for the line, and at the other end of it for the militia.
Now, that was a point which ought to be looked to by
the Government, and some arrangedients should be made
to prevent such collisions. (Hear, hear.) With regard
to the bounty given to the recruits—which was some 9i,
or 101.—he could not but forget that when the labour
market was in by no means the same state nearly double
the amount of bounty was given. Why, how could
they expect to get a ble-b )(lied men as recruits for less
than 201.? (Hear, hear.) He believed that at the time
of the battle of Vittoria there were no less than 67,000
men on the lists of the British army ; and yet in this great
contest in the Crimea, England was represented by
only some 30,00) men. It, therefore, behoved the noble
lord during the leisure of the parliamentary recess to exert
himself with real vigour, otherwise he could not be spared
in future. They had 2.10,000 men in India, 40,000 of whom
were Europeans-20,000 of them being in the company's
service, and 20,000 in the Queen's ; nevertheless, all the
troops that had been withdrawn from India were two re-
giments of cavalry, although without the smallest incouve-
nience they might have drawn from thence a force of 10,000
men. Then, again, their garrisons at Ceylon, the Cape,
and Hong-Kong could supply them with 12 battalions,
whose places might be filled with sepoy troops. He thought
it would have been as well if the noble lord the member
for the City of London had abstained from criticising the
operations in the Crimea ; at all events he (Sir De Lacy
Evans) would not have the courage to follow his example ;
and although immense mistakes had been made, which
Were chiefly in consequence of the Government not hav-
ing been in earnest in regard to the war—(hear)—still,
considering the results attained, these operations afforded
abundant matter for encouragement and hope. He
begged of the house to remember how important it was
that Europe should be made to feel that no disasters of a
military character had befallen the country. (Cheers.)
While it was perfectly astounding to reflect what misfor-
tunes had descended upon the great vaunted powers of Rus-
sia, there was no error of the allies that could bear the
smallest comparison with the passage of the Danube by the
Russian army. It had been said that the expedition to the
Crimea had been resolved upon too late in the year ; per-
haps it was a little too late, nevertheless they must not
forgot that their army had triumphed in every contest
there. (Hear.) Perhaps, also, their recruits were toe young.
Indeed he had himself received a letter that day from the
Crimea from an officer there, saying that he would no
longer be able to recognise his (Sir De Lacy Evans's) old
division, so many young boys had been incorporated with
the regiments. However, he had every reliance in the
noble and euthusiastie spirit of the people ; and he was
happy to see that their feelings was responded to by the
House of Commons. Therefore, the Government of the
noble lord had no excuse for not proceeding with vigour,
for never before had a Government been offered such
ample suppo-t in the prosecution of a war. (Hear, hear.)
This was a war for the national independence of civilised
nations. It was impossible to conceive any war-of deeper
intareet than the present. When the expedition was first

Mr. MIINTZ considered that the whole of the late Ad-
ministration ought to be considered blameable, and he
could not admit that one member only should be subjected
to censure. He charged the Aberdeen Administration,
with want of foresight—want of candour—want of deter-
mination—want of preparation—want of knowledge, and
especially with want of business-like knowledge. He (Mr.
Huntz) (lid not find it possible to vote against the motion,
and he did not like the ambiguous course of voting for the
previous question ; therefore he thought it was the best
plan to vote for the motion, and that he should do. (Hear.)
Mr. S. HERBERT asked for a patient and indulgent
hearing from the house while he addressed it on a subject
iu which he was peculiarly interested. (Hear.) It was his
intention to vote against the motion of his hon. and gallant
friend opposite (General Peel), and ho would tell the hones
why in a very few minutes. (Hear, hear.) He stood in a
peculiar position, and in one personally different from that
of most members of the house; be stood, in the words of
the hon. and learned gentleman, in the position of one
against whom counts of an indictment had been brought
forward. (Hear.) It was said that he and his right hon.
friends attempted to burke the appointment of the com-
mittee, and that they were afraid of an investigation ; but
it could not be said that when the investigation had closed
they shrunk from the judgment of the House of Commons
on the evidence laid before it. (Hear, hear.) They were
justified in asking, after all the accusations that had been
brought against them, on what grounds it appeared that
they, when Ministers of the Crown, were culpable and
neglectful of the interests of the country. (Hear, hear.) It
was said by the right hon. member for Droitwitch that they
were not discussing the policy of theexpeditioa to Sebastopol
—but he (Mr. S. Herbert) certainly thought that the report
contained not only an opinion respecting, but a strong con-
demnation of, that policy. The right hon. baronet was
therefore entirely illogical in saying that the committee
was not to meddle with that policy, and that they were not
to touch upon it in the debate. When the discussion on
the motion of the committee took place, they warned the
house of the danger that would arise from an investigation
of this description. They said they should either give criti-
cal opinions on the policy of the French Government and
the manipulations of the French army, or else, avoiding
those questions, they would come to no conclusion, or come
to a conclusion on insufficient evidence that would be un-
just, and made attacks upon men who would not have an
opportunity of facing their accusers. (Hear, hear.) The
right hon. gentleman the member fur Droitwich said that
he would not consent to be a member of the committee un-
less the inquiry was intended to be a searching one. But
had it been a searching inquiry? Why, in the first sentence
of the report the committee expressed their regret that per-
sons were left labouring under imputations with regard to
which they could not pronounce any decisive opinion. He
believed the members of the committee were honestly de-
sirous of performing their duty. The hon. and learned
chairman of the committee discharged his duties with great
assiduity, and no complaint could be made against him for
submitting a motion to the house, for nothing could be
more constitutional than to ask the opinion of the house on
the report. He quite dissented from the doctrine of the
right he member for Droitwich, that no offensive move-
ment should be•made in a defensive war. The Duke of Wel-
lington went to defend Spain. According to the right hon.
baronet be ought never to have entered France. For a ma-
ritime country like Englandengaged in a war with a country
like Russia, at an immense distance, it could not be denied
that the natural and most effective way of conducting it
would be by maritime blockade. But inthis particularcase
such a plan of warfare was impossible; the object was to de-
fend Turkey, and for this purpose it was necessary to enteron
military operations. No point of the Russian empire offered
so many chances of success or so many rewards as Sebastopol,
at which a blow struck would be felt as affecting a vital
point. He must say further that before the house adopted
this resolution, and passed a vote of censure upon the con-
duct of those who originated the expedition, they ought to
reflect what its effect would bo upon the army of the Cri-
mea. If they thought the expedition would ultimately be
successful let the house admit it ; but if, on the other hand,
they wished to blame those who originated it, let them first
consider what effect the blame would have upon the feelings
of the men who were now engaged in the expedition. Those
men knew nothing about party intrigues ; they looked upon
the decision of the house as the verdict of the country, and
he need not anticipate what their feelings would be when
they should hear that Parliament had pronounced their
labours to be all in vain. (Hear, hear.) He had entered
at some length into this point, because he did not
wish to shrink from taking his share of the responsi-
bility attached to the expedition. (Hear, hear.) If
it had so far failed, he had the satisfaction of knowing that
the late Government did their hest to insure its success.
He admitted that there wore failures, that great errors
were committed, but he thought these failures would have
been remedied earlier if there had not been so much exag-
geration as to render it almost impossible to get at the
truth ; but still he must repeat that every effort that
human foresight could suggest was made to insure the
strength and efficient organisation of the army in the field.
The late Government had great difficulties to contend with,
but he trusted those who came after them found many of
the difficulties cleared away, and that they were now vigo-
rously acting to insure the public service. He was at a loss,
then, to discover what good was to result from passing a
vote of censure upon all the members of the late Govern-
ment. It might have the effect of excluding men of capa-
city and experience from the public service in future,
but that would be a positive injury rather than a good
to the country. However, he was quite ready to submit
to the decision of the house, and if the house deter-
mined to censure him for the failure of the past, he
should have the consolation of knowing that he had done
his utmost to secceed. (Cheers.) He said, then, that he
trusted to the justice of the house, and if they gave due
weight to the considerations he had taken the liberty to
suggest to them, he should not fear their verdict. He ap-
pealed to their justice to look to the whole case, and to
weigh well the evidence upon which the report was
founded ; but, whatever the result might be, he would
not shrink from a decision upon the main question. He
would not give the go-by to the decision of the committee,
but he should vote against the previous question, because
men's characters were implicated in the original resolution,
and upon that resolution the house should pronounce a
distinct opinion—aye or no. (Cheers.)
Mr. E. ELLICE (Coventry) said he thought the time of
the house would be much better occupied with a thorough
examination of the measures soon to be laid on the table
for the reorganisation of the War Departments than in
passing resolutions condemnatory of the members of the
late Government. (Hear, hear,)
Sir G. GREY was ready to accept his full share of
responsibility as a member of Lord Aberdeen's Govern-
ment. But the motion was directed, according to Mr.
Roebuck, specially against Lord Palmerston. Bet it wee
no secret that when that gentleman proposed tho commit-
tee it was directed against those members of the Govern-
ment who had special charge of the war departments, and
it was no secret either that overtures were made to the
other members of the Government that if they would turn
out their colleagues the remaining members should have
ample support in reconstructing the Administration.
Those offers were refused, and the Ministry went out of
office together. Now it was proposed to pass a special vote
of censure upon Lord Palmerston, though the Earl of
Derby, with all these circumstances full in view, had se-
lected him as the leader of his intended Government in
that house. The Government would have supported a
direct negative to this vote, but as the great majority of
the members of the committee were in favour of the pre-
vious question, the Government was prepared to agree
with them.
Lord J. MANNERS urged upon the Government to
come to a direct vote, and not to take shelter under the
previous question.
Lord PALMERSTON said—At that late hour of the
night it is not my intention to occupy the house for any 11
great length of time ; but I must be allowed to say that I
think this motion is one of the most extraordinary which
has ever been made within the walls of Parliament, whether
we consider the time at which it is made, or the manner in
which persons are brought within its scope. For myself, I
am far from wishing to disclaim that full responsibility,
which the hon. and learned member for Sheffield and
these who act with him wish to affix upon every member
of the Government of Lord Aberdeen, for every act which
that Government performed, or failed to perform. I
am ready to acknowledge, without distinction of
officers, that if any one member of the Government can
be et awn to have been guilty of gross neglect of the duties
of hie office, that you are entitled to call upon the other
members of Government to account for not having,
either by their advice or remonstrance, endeavoured to ob-
tain a change of thatcourse of conduct which is deserving of
censure. But the manner in which the hon. and learned
member for Sheffield wishes on the present occasion to fix
the responsibility and to accompany it by the censure of
this house is certainly somewhat singular and remarkable.
When I say that every member of a Government is answer-
able collectively for the conduct of that Government, there
must be, in common sense, some distinction between those
who have particular departments to administer and the
degree in which blame may attach to others who have
been occupied by the business of their own departments,
and who cannot be supposed to have exercised any interfe-
rence, which would in fact have been improper, in the de-
partments of his colleagues, with which he wastotally
uncon-
nected. In this case, what was the committee appointed to
inquire into ? It was the conduct of departments charged with
administering to the wants of the army. Those depart-
men+a were the Secretary of State for War, the Secretary-
at•War, and the Admiralty, which were particularly en-
gaged in the conduct of the war. No doubt the head of the
Government was, by virtue of his office, entitled to that
degree of interference with the conduct of the members of
the Government which the other colleagues would not have
exercised with respect to special departments. What, then,
was the opinion of the committee after all the inquiry
which it had made ? That opinion has been pronounced by
the hon. and learned gentleman the chairman of the com-
mittee. He has paid a handsome but not more than a
just tribute to the manner in which the heads of these
departments performed their duties. (Cheers.) Having
thus awarded his praise to jhose whose special duty it
was to minister to the wants of the army, he vow directs
his censure against those members of the Government. of
Lord Aberdeen who had not the duty of ministering
.t.,00
the wants of the army, and who would be willingitteactl:4
the share of the blame and responsibility which
Med
to the heads of those departments. But, having rluraised
the heads of those depastments from ti?
the manner in which they 1104 (LW:smell their u