The Sun.
London, England, 1855-03-24 00:00:00

hardly be expected that they should give their sympathy,
and support to the measure of the hon. member for Perth-
shire, which was a mere extension of the existing system.
It haCl been said that these schools were not sectarian ; it was
true that in many respects the teaching was not sectarian,but
being under the superintendence of the Presbyters, was it
not reasonable to expect that they would always be looked
upon as sectarian, particularly in Scotland, where so much
importance was attached to doctrine and religious differ-
ences. The hon. gentleman who last addressed them ad-
vocated one system for the town and another for the coun-
try, but he was much mistaken if the real majority of the
Scotch people would not rather prefer one universal sys-
tem. The only plan which would satisfy them must be at
once rational, free from all sectarian tests and exclusive
control. He was not a Free Churchman, but as a Dissen-
ter he wanted to say that he must strongly deprecate the
course taken by some gentlemen of the same polemics as
himself, when on a former occasion they united with gen-
tlemen opposite holding opinions diametrically opposed to
their own, in order to defeat a measure which, though of a
practical character, did not come up to their peculiar ab-
stract theories.
Mr. C. BRUCE could not but deeply regret that his
hon. and learned friend should have thought it right again
to introduce this bill, which the house rejected last year.
In Scotland there was a system of parochial education
which had been in existence for nosily 203 years, which
had produced the most beneilcial effects upon the country.
and before they abolished or risked the constitution of
that system, it ought to be clearly shown that the proposed
substitute would prove a better system. Let the scheme
then embraced in this bill be tested in the towns before
it was applied to the counties. With regard to the sta-
tistical map which the bill proposed, he had no ob-
jection whatever to it, because he believed the result
of the inquiry would prove that in the majority of the
parochial schools not only had the number of scholars
reatly increased of late years, but the quality of the edu-
c
ation had vastly improved. As for increasing the remu-
neration of the schoolmasters, that had already taken place
others
in
the
iSoL ayear,
northern counties where some were paid 1001., and
but,
still he should not ' have the
least objection to see them still further increased. But,
above all, he called upon them not to pass a measure which
would endanger the connection of religion with education.
Until they had devised a system which would secure an
improved secular and religious instruction, let them leave
Scotland in possession of that invaluable institution which
had conferred so many benefits on the country.
Lord ELCHO thanked the learned Lord-Advocate for
introducing a bill which was in principle the same as the
measure of last year. Its object, he took to be, to establish,
PS far as possible, in Scotland a system of secular education
versus sectarian, which hon. gentlemen opposite wished to
support. Was it desirable, he asked, by supporting such a
measure as that proposed by his hon. friend opposite (Mr.
Stirling) to perpetuate that odium theologicum which now
unfortunately existed, arisirg from the multitude of sects
into which the Scottish people were now divided, and the
keenest of sectarian feeling existing in consequence ? The
present measure would establish united education on the
ancient Presbyterian basis of the parish schools, and eoviato
all danger of sectarian rancour. It was incorrect to say
that the bill of last year obtained the support only of the
representatives of the largetownsof Scotland. Thefact was,
that two-thirds of the Scotch members voted for the mea-
sure proposed by the Lord Advocate, and one-third only
for that of his hon. friend opposite, and that amongst the
county members the latter had but a majority of one in its
favour. So that but for the absence of the late lamented
solidated fund to relieve the heritors of a -burden which
they were in fact perfectly willing to bear„ for they were
anxious to join in carrying on a system I ieneficial to all,
and adverse to none ? If it was the i ight:ecn. gentleman's
sincere wish to abolish sectarianism and do away with the
animosities they regretted to see prevailing, why did lie
not come forward and propose some provion that world
fore, a guarantee and test for the soundness of the religious
opinions of the schoolmasters? If 95 per cent, of the
people of Scotland entertained the same religious belief,
why should they not require a guarantee that the youth
of the coming generation should retain the pure faith of
their fathers ? He regretted that the measure should
people of Scotland.
Mr. COWAN thought that no schools could surpass in
efficiency those of Harlot's Hospital, at Edinburgh, where
no religious test was enforced. He had heard with great
member for Forfarshire (Colonel Menlo), who was detained
by his duties in a distant region, the numbers' on both 1
sides would have been equal. He hoped that English mem-
bers would bear this in mind, and pay some regard to the
feelings and wishes of the people cf Scotland. He wished
to guard himself against being supposed to be in any way
hostile to, the Established Church of Scotland. So far
from this, he believed that in voting for the bill he should
be doing the best for the interests of that church, which
was placed in an invidious position by the attempt to mo-
nopolise a system intended for the use and benefit of the
whole of Scotland. He gave his hearty support to the
bill, convinced that in doing so he should be doing that
which ought to be the object of every Sootchman in the
house, and promoting his country's; welfare. (Hear.)
Mr. JOHN MACGREGOR believed that, if members
were as well acquainted with Scotland as himself, they
would not for a moment think of opposing the bill of the
Lord Advocate. No people in the world were so much in-
debted to their educational institutions as the Scotch, but
the present system was utterly inadequate for the instruc-
tion of the present population.
Viscount DUNCAN had not been a member of the house
when the bill of last year was introduced, but had he been
so it should have received his warmest support. ' He had
heard nothing to show that an educational measure was not
wanted for Scotland; on the contrary, everything combined
to show that such a measure was obsoletely required, and
would confer the most material benefits. There
(could be
no better proof of this than the criminal statistics of 1854,
from which it appeared that of the persons committed to
prison during that year 4,474 could not read, and 9,259
could not write. It must nQt be forgotten that the Estab-
lished Church of Scotland no longer represented t'ee majo-
rity of the people, as it did when the parochial system ori-
ginated. The bill of his right hon. friend proposed to in-
clude the rural districts as well as the large towns,
-whereas
that proposed on the other side would not be so extended,
because the hon. gentleman who brought it in was aware
of his difficulty, and knew that he would be ship-wrecked
the moment he came to the subject of the test, If the
measure contained no test, the honourable gentleman
would be accused by the friends of the Church of deserting
his principles, whilst, if it contained such a provision, it
would be received with dismay by the bulk of the Scottish
people. If they were to have a parliamentary
eystem of
education established in Scotland, let it, at all e vents, be a
uniform one. In former clays Scotland had taken the lead
in matters of education, but more recently she. had been
outstripped by Germany and other countries. Ma gladly
supported the measure now brought in, because it tended to
replace her in the situation she had formerly occupied.
Mr. F. SCOTT thought the measure intended', to act on
an opposite system from that which had hitherto prevailed in
Scotland, holding out no guarantee for religioua instruction.
The learned Lord Advocate had endeavoured. to induce a
belief that those on this side of the house were opposed to
any measure for the promotion of education in Scotland,but this imputation he utter:y repudiated. They sought
to perpetuate the existing system, and to improve it;
whereas the noble lord, who said ho was ready to meet
them on a common ground, and deprecated all sectarian
spirit, did not in realityadvanceone jot town res that object.
W -hy, he asked, needlessly abolish the gurarentee for the
Orthodoxy of religious opinions? Why come to the con-
- con-
tain nothing relating to reformatory schools, and feared
that it would not be acceptable in its present shape to the
pleasure the desire expressed by several h en, members that
the salaries of the parochial schoolmasters should be in-
creased, and hoped that an opportunity would be afforded
to the heritors of unbuttoning their pockets to the utmost
extent. The miserable pittance hitherto: awarded to them,
not more than that of a common labourer, • rats in the highest
degree disgraceful to the country. Even the rooms of their
dwelling-houses had been restricted to two, whilst the
maximum salary of the schoolmaster was axed at 341. His
right hon. friend's bill proposed to replace this state of
things by a thoroughly equipped and efficient systemehold-
ing out premiums to individuals to devote themselves to
the acquisition of knowledge, and the best methods of
communicating it.
Mr. BOUVERIE hoped that the house would permit the
present bill to pass into law, and that it would not sustain
a defeat similar to that which the measure introduced last
year received in consequence of the extraordinary combi-
nation which then took place among hon. members. There
was one clause in the bill of last year to which he most
strongly objected, that was the one which. provided for the
arbitrary dismissal of schoolmasters by the Board of Elu-
tion. He hoped that in the present bill 801110 modification
of that clause would be made.
The LORD ADVOCATE stated that the clause referred
to would be found to be modified.
Mr. WALPOLE thought that the noble lord might have
accomplished his object of providing for the educational
wants of Scotland by drawing some dietinc Lion between the
more rural parts of Scotland and the lame and populous
towns. Had the bill been so framed, so far from its meeting
with any opposition on his side of the house, it would have
received a most cordial and hearty suppo rt. By bringing
in a bill which introduced the very religious differences
which they all wished to avoid, the blame must surely ra-
ther rest with those who caused the discussion upon such
religious differences than with those who might oppose the
measure, but who were as anxious as any honourable mem-
bers could be to conciliate the religious feelings of the peo-
ple of Scotland, and at the same time to extend and pro-
mote the cause of education. Considering that the system
of education which now existed in Scotland had been es-
tablished for nearly two centuries, and had ;Bent forth many,
persons of the highest education, he thought; it was not wise
rashly to abolish the system, and by so d ling offend the
feelings of a very large portion of the people of Scotland.
The noble lord had argued from the introduction of a bill
by the right hon. baronet the member for Droitwich, which
was to apply to England, that its principles entirely justi-
fied him in pressing upon the house the measure which he
had brought forward. There was, however, a wide distinc-
tion between the two countries which had been overlooked.
In Scotland therm existed a system of education which had
prevailed for a long time, which had succeeded admirably,
and which only required extension; while in England there
was no such system. With respect to the object of the bill
there could be no doubt that upon both sides of the house
.there existed a unanimous feeling in favour of extending
education to the fullest possible extent for the benefit of
the people both in England and Scotland.. (Hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON congratulated his noble friend the
Lord Advocate upon the tone and temper of the discussion
which had ensued upon the motion which he had submit-
ted to the house. There appeared to be some important
points of general agreement upon all hands, and he trusted
that in the course of the discussion of the bill, when its
details were brought under the consideration of the house,
there might be a nearer - • t' - • •
bsepp.oxima ion in than the
house at present
leading might . disposed to anticipate. As to the
principles of the bill there appeared to be a very
genera acquiescence b
indeed, could . e y all parts of the house. No 'one,
nogg the peopledeny the importance of extending education
in Scotland hattt?! Scotland. The system of education
stood pre-emincut form-en a strong bold upon the people, and
Circumstance 3 h,,d anyYeats
as
an
excellent
system.
events heel occurredneo•
wereNaoevr, greatly changed, and
who laid the foundation in s not anticipated by those
ton
of
national
nnucatim, cotland for this general sys-
tem
the condition of thi%gas.nd jvhich had completely
some improvement should be madet and the necessary that
lie member for Perth had proceeded i hououra-
the assumption that the lee t a his
.bi:l
upon sen state of thinks
When they were t I
Must be altered. Weon l 01,., for instance, what
was the scanty and niggarit:
education
givt.n to these men
to whom they had entrusted of the people
Could anyexist as to the necessity for come c ~'
doubt haft .
' hoolmasters were men who were
in that respect ?, So .
"
of certain intellectualattainments,
quired to be possessed
acquired knowledge, and was i't
to
natural capacity, and
be endured that they were
to receive such paltry pittances
as were now given to them ? Another cause of regret con,
Scotland was
nected with the education of thepeople of
lt
were sp 1 up into different
religious sects. He respected
the manner in which the people
highly the deep religious
opinions which had led to the separation into these sects ;
but surely it was desirable that those differences which
not be al-
divided the people into different sections should