The Sun.
London, England, 1855-01-27 00:00:00

and
jug

by sweeping up the hold
sofneipot t a feerl the poi

a little corn
or animols not

was obtained, to send to Persia. There was, however, a man who, above
it their arriva' this l others, was
3 N,V
in capable
„ i,a
of carrying on the diplomacy of
gentleman well acquainted with
the recources of that country, with India, and with adja-
cent countries ; ho referred to Colonel Rawlinson, who, of
all men, was the one to send to Persia, and who would
! alone be worth an army of 20,000 men to the Govern-
ment. He (Mr. Layard) had strong reason for believing
that before long the Government would not be able to
bring Persia into their system of policy. If they did not
take Sebastopol Persia would be against them, and in the
' course of a year would be at Bagdad, when our possession
of India weiuld be—he would not say imperilled, but at
any rete greatly shaken. And what was the position of
Europe ? All the troops had been taken from Bulgaria
and thrown into the Crimea to assist our unfortunate
army in repairing the mistakes made by the Government
at home. Turkey had been deprived of all defence, and
the Government were doubtful of the course Austria
would take. (Hear.) He could not believe that she
would not take part with us; but if she did not Russia
I would be at Constantinople before a single regiment
could bo sent to oppose her. Even supposing that Russia
fell upon Austria, raised Hungary against her, and
beat her in a pitched ..battle, what was there to prevent
Russia from going to Constantinople? If she did, what
was to save the army and fleet this country had now before
Sebastopol? (Hear, hear.) In such a critical position he
did not think the affairs of the country ought to be admi-
nistered by men who had shown themselves incompetent
in war and incompetent in diplomacy, and he could not by
his vote to-night show the slightest confidence in those
who had betrayed what he considered to be the best in-
terests of the country. (" Hear, hear," and cheers.) For
the first time brave hearts which had never desponded
were desponding at the state of things existing in the
Crimea. He had received letters from two gentlemen he
knew well, and from whom he had never heard a word to
say they doubted or feared, stating that at last they must
confess things were desperate. (Hear, hear.) This, then,
was not the moment to hesitate, and it was only by the
country compelling the House of Commons to take the
matter in their own hands, and having men equal to the
occasion to carry out the policy of the country, that they
could hope for safety. (Cheers.) He believed there were
men who could do this and who could save the country.
They must have men to carry out a policy worthy of
the country, and if that policy were not carried out they
might depend upon it that England ere long would be
reduced to the position of a second-rate Power. (Hear,
hear.) It was with these convictions—these solemn
convictions—that he felt himself compelled to vote in
favour of the motion of his hon. friend. (Cheers.)
Sir G. GREY—It is with deep reluctance that I offer my-
self to this house to take any part in the present debate, but.
I feel that I should be shrinking from a public duty if I
merely gave a silent rote against the motion of the hon. and
learned gentleman the member for Sheffield, and if I did not
record in the most distinct and emphatic terms that I give
my vote without the slightest doubt or hesitation, thinking
that I should be betraying my public duty were I to sanction
the precedent of committing an inquiry such as that proposed
to us to any committee of 15 gentlemen selected from the
body of this house. (Hear, hear.) The objections stated by
several hon. gentlemen in the course of the debate, and by
none more forcibly than the hon. gentleman who has just
addressed the house—the objections thus stated to committing'
such an inquiry to hon. gentlemen upstairs—l believe to be
fatal to the resolution of the hon. member for Sheffield, and I
confess that, deeply pained as I am now to stand here severed,
for the first time in a short political life, in any matter of
political importance, from my noble friend behind me, I can-
not, upon mature reflection and consideration, assent to a
motion the only effect of which would be to paralyse the
exertions—l will not say of this Government alone, but of
any Government whatever sitting upon these benches and
conducting the affairs of the country at a most critical period
—a period when greater confidence should be placed in the
Government than under ordinary circumstances, and when
their hands should be left free and unfettered, in order to
enable them to carry on the vigorous prosecution of the war.
(Hear.) I have not the slightest hesitation in believing that
the hon. and learned gentleman who has brought forward
this motion has done it with a view to serve the best interests
of the country; but I feel it my duty as a member of the
Government, as it would, in my judgment, have been equally
my duty as a member of this house, to record my vote
against that motion. But I do not rest my opposition to
the motion on the ground of it being a covert and indirect
mode of passing a vote of want of confidence in the Govern-
ment. There are those who no doubt say—" We will ap-
point this committee, and then, by a subsequent vote, we
will reseind`the order of the house for the nomination of the
committee, and thus leave the division on the present motion
to imply a want of confidence in the Government." (Cheers
from the Opposition.) Honourable gentlemen opposite cheer
that statement—those who not long since fil:ed high office in
the administration of this country, and who now aspire again,
perhaps, to fill those offices which they before filled for &con-
siderable period. What I—Have they no confidence in the
Government, and do they shrink from coming forward and
proposing a direct vote of want of confidence (Hoar, hear.)
Do they seek to carry their purpose by means of this motion,
so objectionable in principle, and objectionable, as I contend
it must be in the greatest degree, in its practical effect.?
Why do they not raise the plain and simple question of "con-
fidence" or " no confidence," and ask the House of Commons
to decide into whose handsthe government of the country
shall be intrusted ? I admit that that any man whovotes for
this motion, will express an entire want of confidenes in t e
Government; but still I wonder at hon. gentlemen act having
courage enough to come down and explicitly avowing that
feeling by a direct vote, but seeking to attain their object in-
directly and ambiguously by a motion like the one now pro-
posed by the hon. and learned member for Sheffield. Still, it
is possible for a man to vote against that motion without ex-
pressing any confidence whatever in the Government. What
is it that my honourable friend who last addressed the house
stated I He admitted that the motion was objectiemble in
principle, and must be disadvantageous in practee. I,
however, rest my opposition to thb motion on other grounds.
I admit, to the fullest extent, the right of tho house and of
the country to be furnished with the most ample information
which the Government can give with regard to the gate of
our army, as well as with regard to the causes e those
miseries and evils which exist in that gallant army, limit-
ing that admission of right to this extent only, tint every
consideration shall be given to what the public nterest
requires in regard to the degree of information to be
given at any particular period of time, for it cannot be
denied that a certain degree of information only nay pru-
dently be afforded on a particular subject at one peri.d, con-
cerning which, at a later period, more ample informaton may
be safely granted. My right hon. friend has said that he was
ready to enlarge the terms of the motion so as to flee it a
more general and searching character. Don't let it there-
fore, be said that the Government are shrinking from afford-
ing all the information which, consistently with their duty,
they can afford to this house and the country. But it is prin-
cipally owing to the feeling that this motion involves a cen-
sure of a grave and serious character against certain depart-
ments of the Government that I oppose it ; for, altheaglinot
having been long in the department over which I ?reside,
and which is not immediately connected with the conducting
of the war, still I stand here as fully responsible for all the
acts of my noble and right hon. friend upon whose the im-
mediate direction of the war has devolved as if I hid been ;
personally at the head of the departments they themselves
fill. (Hear, hear.) I feel it would be unjust to cast censure
upon men whom I consider to be undeserving of thatcensure.
(Hear, hear.) lam not here, however, to say that no mise
takes have been made or errors committed, or tint every-
thing has been done in the right way or at the prmer time.
I have always said that if we had possessed that foresight
which experience would have afforded us, we might lave been
able to guard against many of the evils which we all lament ;
but I believe from my soul that those evils have resisted not ,
from the incapacity or the ignorance of any one mm, or of
any other man, but that they have resulted from that igno-
rance under which we have all suffered, owing to the ines-
timable blessing of a forty years' undisturbed peace. The
experience of war can only be acquired from the coniienance
of a long protracted war. lam not here to say that a road
could not have been constructed from Balaklava to tee camp
before the mud had so accumulated as •to make all transit
impossible. I am not here to say that hospitals could tot have
been muon earlier established, or that the transport service
has been conducted in the most efficient manner; but I am
hero to ray that I thi dr. it would bo most unjust vere I to I
concur in a vote which would lay the blame of these results
upon any one man. (Hear, hear.) I believe tint if any
one of us now composing the Government hat b cc placed
in the same position we *might have fallen into the same
series of errors, for we sh uld not only have labourel un ler
that inexperience which results from the absence of war for
litany years, but we should have had to contend Wth the
non-combative feeling which prevailed in the country at the
time when this wan: broke out I have thus, sir, stated what
I believe to have been the main cause of those evils and sad
mulls which we are now lamenting. A great deal of the
misery has alzo proceeded from disease, which has been the
effect of climate, and against which no experience or foresight
could have gnarled. What was the effect of the troops be-
ing put in motion after having had their spirits cowed and
their health destroyed by being kept in a state of inaction at
Varna, where disease was carrying them off in great numbers?
I say that the disease in the camp and the scourge of cholera,
which, even in this country, had its almost c untless victims,
seriously affected the army by weakening its strength and
diminishing its efficiency ; and yet it would be moat unjust
to attribute these results to thee conduct of any portion of the
Government. A; this motion has been taken up as a vote of
want of confidence iu the Government by hon. gentleman, I
can only say that if the blow is to be struck and blame is to
be cast on the Government, strike the blow at once. (Cheers.)
This is a time not for debate or hesitation ; it is time for ac-
tion. (Hear.) Let the house come to a decision, and, be it ad-
verse or be it otherwise, to that decision we must bow. (Cheers)
I was much gratified to hear the hon. member for West Sur-
rey (Mr. Drummond) pass a well-merited compliment on that
department of the Administration which is more immediately
under the direction of my right hon. friend (Mr. Sidney Her-
bert), against whom, nevertheless, the force of the present
motion is more particularly directed than against any other
member of the Government. There are a few points respecting
which it•appears to me there exists a great deal of mesrepre-
sentation, no doubt arising from misapprehension, of what
my right hon. friend has said. The hon. member fo' Ayles-
bury has said that the Secretary at War had actually thrown
blame, and oven a stigma, on the army, by stating that its
officers were not capable of taking the command of a brigade.
My right hon. friend said nothing of the kind. What he said
was, that our army is not an army in the sense in which that
word is used in war, or the sense in which it is regarded
when speaking of the great continental armies, which are
kept up in a perpetual state of efficiency to act as a defensive
and offensive army. What my right hon. friend did say was
that our army was an aggregation of regiments, and which I
believe is perfect in its organisation ; but, from the very na-
ture of th 6 duties attaching to a regiment the service is a re-
gimental service and not an army. There aro many regimen.
tal officers who, from serving iu the colonies and at other
parts of the British empire, have never had the opportunity of
seeing a brigade. But surely, to say so is casting no reproach
upon the British army. The next observation I have to make
is not with respect to any misrepresentation of what has fallen
from my right hon. friend, but is a misrepresentation which
has been made by the hon. member for Aylesbury himself
hon.wi t h
greens tteecn
atno
htahse
said
iodn dt
that
toi otn t
hoof
htahheitsßritish
Ds or
il dtii es
hr . s l
dTihe or
is not so good as those of other nations, and that ho is not so
fertile in resources as the soldiers of other armies. Is not that
aspgemiakg
n,inhe
sionysdethpearaßgrietmisehnt solodfietrhise a BmrietrieshmasochldinieellthaTthn,
youe
make him a machine, and that a machine he is. Now let me
quote, in opposition to the opinion of the non-combatant
member for Aylesbury, the opinion of one, of the gallant deeds
with which his name is associated in both'services—the army
and the navy—we are proud to speak, and to whom we aro
all indebted as the historian of the Peninsular War. (Cheers.)
If the hon. gentleman has not read that book, let me advise
him to do so before he again ventures to cast imputations upon
the character of a British soldier.
Mr. LAYARD rose amid loud cries of " Order," and said
that the charge 'which had been made against him by the
right hon. gentleman was a most serious one. He begged to
say that he bad cast no imputation upon the British soldier.

UordrulneLt were tad ;.hey wuuid
want all the necessaries of life in Bulgaria, that the coun-
try was almost depopulated, and its resources exhausted.
He suggested establishing a marketat Sinops, and took the
greatest trouble to point out how available it would be,
whether for an army at Varna, at Sebastepol, or in Asia
Minor. From Sinope they might have had a fall supply
of fresh meat and provender, and by a little trouble
they might have obtained regular transport service from
the people of the country. But no ! the Government
would not listen to a single man who knew the country, and
they made a rule not to employ any one who could either
speak the language or had been in the country before. He
remembered recommew ing a gentleman who had been
many years in the country and spoke the language as well
as be did English ; but when that gentleman went to a
gallant officer on the subject, he was told that it was desired
to engage his services, but he could not be placed in a po-
sition to dine with the officers ; of course the gentleman
refused entertaining any further proposals. Because the
Government could not break through the system, they ;
must employ Sir Charles Trevelyan's clerks, who had never
been service, and who did not speak a word of the lan-
guage of the country to which they were going. (Cheers.)
Tee Government sent a gentleman to Constantinople to make
a report on the country. He recollected pointing out the
absurdity of sending a gentleman who knew nothing of
the language, to report oa the state of Turkey generally,
with its mixed population, as different as black from white,
and he was met witk a reference to the Report and its in-
dex of 70 or 80 subjects. That was exactly what he com-
plained of—that they were induced to believe they had in-
formation on matters which people who had lived in Turkey
half their lives knew very little about. (Hear.) The right
hon. gentleman the Secretary at War had adverted to the
large number of transports which had been employed by
the Government, but it appeared that those transports
had only been engaged in conveying goods to Balaklava
and back again without ever landing anything. An hon.
friend opposite had given them an account of the state of
affairs at Balaklava, and had particularly instanced the
want of vegetables. This was strictly true, for he (Mr.
Layard) had himself been a witness to it, and had seen the
unfortunate soldiers brought down to carry upon their backs
enormous sacks of potatoes and onions, which they were
unable to remove. The provisions might certainly have
been there, but had they been consumed by the troops ?‘
(Hear, hear.) The }lease must not be misled by re-
ports of the abundance of provisions at hand. There might
bean abundance of clothing and vegetables, but,.unless the
vegetables were consumed and the chithing worn, what
was the use of sending them there? The house had been
completely mystified by the accounts which had been given
of the Prince. They were told that that unfortunate vessel
had all the winter clothing en board, and that the fact that
such clothing was there showed that the Government had
not exhibited the negligence of which they had been ac-
cused. Now, in point of fact, the Prince had not on board
what was strictly called winter clothing, but she had on
board such clothing as the troops might have put on any
day in the year. There was no special clothing whatever
to enable them to stand the severity of a Crimean winter.
(Hear, hear.) There was not a single rag of that descrip-
tion, all that was on board being a certain number of shirts
stockings, and other articles which would have been
given out to the soldiers in England or any other place.
And now he would for a moment call the attention of the
house to the case of the siege artillery. They were told
that so far back as the spring of last year the Government
contemplated a descent upon the Crimea. For the sake of
the Government themselves he could not believe this to be
the case. It appeared to him to be impossible, considering
the nature of the siege-train sent out. (Hear, hear.) They
had already heard that there were no mortars in the train
calculated for a siege of such magnitude as that of Sebas-
topol. The mortars available were of very small calibre,
and there were no siege guns of any size, those at hand
being merely calculated for a campaign in Bulgaria, in be-
sieging such smallplaces as the Russians might have taken.
Bat even in Bulgaria,,they would have been unfit for ser-
vice, as no horses had been sent out with the siege-train,
and in conveying the guns to the heights before Sebastopol
they had been compelled to use the horses of the Horse
Artillery ; and then there were only so many rounds of
ammunition sent out as, at the common rule of firing,
would be exhausted in a day. The right hon. gentleman
the Secretary at War said every endeavour would be made
to fit up the hospitals ; but why had this not been done
before ? (Hear, hear.) Did the Government think they
could go to the Crimea and fight battles there without
having any killed and wounded ? The French evidently
did not think so, for they had already established their
hospitals, &c. No outcry had been heard against their
proceedings in that respect. • On the contrary, their hos-
pitals were admirably arranged, and not ono man had
been suffered to die from the want of proper accommodation
for the sick and wounded. The right hon. gentleman told
them the Government were no a, about to send out a com-
mission of ingnirY.
Mr. S. HERBERT observed that the commission was
sent out on the ill of November last.

Mr. LAYARD said, that was after many of the disasters
which had overtaken our troops had occurred. It now ap-
peared that Lord Raglan had been directed to make a
report to the Government upon the state of the army ; but
how were they to get at the truth in that report ? Did they
think that if they examined the officers they would tell them
all they felt ! Not a bit of it. And how would these reports
be made ? Were they likely to be fair reports ? On the
contrary, rnd very naturally too, would not all that re-
flected credit be given, and all that was unfavourable
be kept in,the backgrouad ? (Hear, hear.) That was the
nature of the reports they would get, and not the least
dependence could be placed upon them. The right hon.
gentleman had asked if commissioners were to be sent out
such as those sent out by the French Republic ? This was
certainly no revolutionary war, but in the case referred to
by the right hon. gentleman the army was in a state of de-
moralisation, and it was re zganised and led en to victory,
performing deeds rarely exceeded in the previous history of
the country, in consequence of the efforts of the commission-
ers. The House were told that, through the vicious system
adopted by the Government, the medical officers before
Sebastopol had resigned in a body. Of course Lord Raglan
refused to receive their resignation, but the matter was a
very serious one, and it showed how badly the Government
departments must be managed when the medical officers
finding they were unable to discharge their duties pro-
perly, were compelled to resign in a body. (Hear.) Ho
had no wish now to enter into any full details respecting
the war. He knew, as the right hon. gentleman told them,

that the Government could not grant this committee, foi
if such a committee were sitting upstairs the hands of the
Government would be shackled, and disclosures might be
made which would be most prejudicial to the public ser-
vice. It was net, however, in that respect that he should
vote upon the motion of his hon. friend. He should vete
upon it distinctly because he believed it to be a vote of con-
fidence or no confidence, and not because for a moment he

imagined that such a committee could be conceded. (Hear.)
They had been told it would be well to let the matter rest
now, for the noble lord the member for Tiverton was Min-

ister for War, and all things would go on right. It would
not, however, shake the resolution he had come to when he
found that at last moment, with imminent danger hang-

ing over their heads, tho GOvernment had appointed the
noble lord the memberfor Tiverton Minister for War. That

sort of thing had been going on now for the last 12 months.
Had they Not last year told the Government that the pro-

per person for Minister of War was the noble lord the
member for Tiverton. (Hear, hear.) He well remembered
his lamented friend the late member for Marylebone mak•
ing a motion in that house upon this very, subject, and
now, at the last moment, it was admitted that those who

held that opinion were right, and the Government were

wrong. But such had been the case in everything. (Hear.)
Last year hon, members proposed an amalgamation of the
War-office and the office of the Secretary at War. They
were told that it should be done, and the Louse liberally
voted 17,000/. on the understanding that the amalgama-
tion should take place. But what then occurred ? A
noble duke was appointed at the head of the War-office,
and he (Mr. Layard) had supposed that the new Minister
would have chosen as his under secretaries some per-
SOBS who knew something of the business of such a de-

partment, but he found one of tho under secretaryships
was given to a relative of the noble duke—a military man
against whom he had nothing to say—and the other to the
noble duke's private secretary. (Hear.) It was really as-
tonishing to see how the public interests were trifled with,
and, unless a better system were adopted, the Howe 6f
Commons had better at once resign its functions. Then,
again, the transport service was „brought under the notice
of the Government, but nothing was done is the matter
until Ministers saw that the country was determined to have
a transport service, when they stepped in and consented to
make one. Time after time he and other hon. gentlemen had
risen in that house to state that there was no blockade in

the Black Sea. Over and over again he was flatly contra-
dicted by the First Lord of the Admiralty, and told that
there was a blockade. He (Mr. Layard told them that the
tradein the Black Sea was as open as it ever had been, that
many of our merchants had been ruined, and that the com-
merce was being carried on regularly by Greek merchants ;
he was contradict:admen, than once, though they now found

a notice issued to establish a blockade frmit the Ist of
February next. (Hear.) Really, this was laughing at the
public, and he could not understand how people could
allow themselves to be treated in each a manner. Was it
true or not that thero had been a blockade? It was evi-

dent that none had existed. inasmuch as they now found
that fact admitted by the Government them-elves. (Hear.)
The other day a comphint was made that medals had not
been given for the action at Balaklava, but when the Go.
Terninent saw the strong feeling entertained by the public
in that respect they at once conceded the matter, and came
down to the house to say that a medal wcitbl be granted.
(Hear.) New, was this statesmanship, or what was it?
Did it not bear out the truth of the words of a celebrated

English writer, that it would be of little detriment to
the public service to throw a pieco of orange peel
into the Palace Court-yard, and make the first man who
picked it up Prime Minister? (Laughter,) Recent events
bore out most strongly the troth of this remark of Mr: Car-
lyle. Either Lord Raglan was sent out at the head of the
expedition, or he was net. If he was not, why throw
any blame upon him? Upon all sides there was the same
—he scarcely knew what to characterise it—the same
sacrifice of public interests to private interests. He might
almost warn them of the fate of Athens and Florence, and
ask if it was creditable, when the very existence of the
country was at stake, that they should sacrifice its honour
and welfare for private and personal feelings? (Hear,
hear.) His hon. friend the member for the city of London
had attempted teexplain the speech he made some time ago
with respect to Austria, but he would mach rather that
his noble friend had adhered to the former version. He

did not mean to say that Austria would not joie the treaty,
and ultimately deal with them ; but what had she done
hitherto when one word upon her part might have saved
half of those who had been sacrificed in the Crimea ?

("Hear, hear," and cheers.) Did they they think that Rus-
sia would hay. advanced beyond Odessa if Austria had been
against her? Certainly not. And how could he, by voting
again-t tho motion of his hon. friend, show any confidence
in a Government who had shown themselves so incapa-
pable? (Hear and cheers.) It was admitted by the Go-
vernment themselves that they had made a gigautio mis-
take, and had brought us to this terrible position ; and he
trusted the house would allow him a few moments, while
ho endeavoured to point out the really critical position in
which we now stood. Looking at the Crimea and Sebasto-
pol as nothing, it appeared. that the Government were now
concentrating their energies on potted meat and warm
clothing—certainly most important things, but not the
only important things to be looked to. What was the real
position of the country at this_ moment ? We were engaged
with a gigantic power, and our army—what little army we
now had—was in the Crimea, and could not be drawn
thence. In what position did Russia stand? She had upon
the borders of Asia a vast army which it was highly probable,
as soon as the warm weather set in, would march upon
Erzeroum, and Kars, and Bagdad, and overrun the whole
of Asia Minor. And what would be our position if
Russia gained possession of Erzeroum, and engaged
Persia on her side? The Government did nothing last
year to.engage Persia with the Allies, and they did
nothing till the winter even in the way of sending an
agent there. Hear.) The gentleman they have then sent
was one of great ability, and whom ho should be glad to
see in almost Any position, but lie was not quite the man

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENT

What he said was, that as a raw material he possessed all
I the excellencies of a soldier, but that the system made him
a machine.
Sir G. GREY.-:—Yes, as a raw material he was excellent,
but that that material, in consequence of the system, was so
deteriorated that it made him a machine. Now, Sir, Wil-
liam Napier, in a passage of his work; gives this description
of the qualities of a British soldier :
"That the British infantry soldier is more robust than the
soldier of any other nation can scarcely be doubted by those
who, in 1815, observed his powerful frame, distinguished
amidst We united armies of Europe ; and notwithstanding
his habitual excess in drinking, ho sustains fatigue and wet
and the extremes of cold and heat with incredible vigour."
There is the raw material ; and now we come to the ma-
chine.

" When completely disciplined—and three years are required
to accomplish this—his port is lofty•and his movements free,
the whole world cannot produce a nobler specimen of military
bearing: nor is the mind unworthy of the outward man.
(Loud cheers.) He does not, indeed, possess that presnmp-
tnous vivacity which would lead him to dictate to his com-
manders, or even to censure real errors, although he may
perceive them; but he is observant and quick to com-
prehend his orders, full of resources under difficulties, calm
and resolute in danger, and more than usually obedient and
careful of his officers in moments of imminent peril. It has
been asserted that his undeniable firmness in battle is the re-
sult of a phlegmatic constitution uninspired by moral feeling.
Never was a more stupid calumny
uttered Napoleon's
troops fought in bright fields where every helmet caught some
beams of glory, but—[l am now come to a passage, the accu-
racy of which I don't admit]—the British soldier conquered
racy. (Loud shouts of laughter.)
no despatch gave his name to
Nunedheren theeurr coldwa sihteaddehoief adrairsitnogc
the applause of his countrymen, his life of danger and hard-
ship was =chequered by hope, his death unnoticed. Did
his heart sink therefore ? Did he not endure with surpassing
fortitude the sorest of ills, sustain the most terrible assaults
in battle unmoved, overthrow with incredible energy every
opponent, and at all times prove, that while no physical mi-
litary qualification was wanting, the fount of honour was also
full and fresh within him I" (Cheers.)
I hope I need not apologise to the house for having read
this passage from so eminent an authority—(cheers)—and I
trust, that from this time forth the hon, gentleman will not
venture to describe the British soldier as being composed
of a " raw material" that is converted into a mere machine
by the system of the British army. (Hear.) But, sir,
since this passage was written by Sir William Napier not
only has a great improvement taken place in the habits of
the soldier, but his deeds of valour are now recognised in
a manner which was formerly never done, and marks of merit
given, and commissions bestowed upon him with a liberality
that was never before practised in the army. The letters
received from one brave soldiers now in the Crimea have
been such as to come home to the hearts and sympathies of
all in this land ; and surely it is no slight proof of the im-
provement that has taken place in the character of our army
when we find such letters published, equally from the private
soldier as from the officer. (Hear.) One word with reference
to a misapprehension on the part of an hon. gentleman near
me who spoke seemingly on the assumption that authority
had been given to Lord Raglan now for the first time to re-
move incompetent officers. Does he not know that from the
first time Lord Raglan set foot in the Crimea, or took the
command of the army, he had full authority, and knew that
the
acts
of my colleagues when attacked by the
he would be supported in the exercise of that authority, to
remove every officer who might be found incompetent to the
a
discharge of his duties ? I have thus stated generally the
grounds on which I feel it incumbent on me to stand on this
occasion by
motion of the hon. and learned member for Sheffield—to avow
my full responsibility for those acts, to share in the censure
twiohin, which
hanthd to this
shoduarenmad may impose
as on them
as I them
amby
able—not from all
grounds of censure or blame—but to state their case openly to
p ing this resold-
the house, and to depend on its candour and fairness in coming
to a decision. This imposes on me the necessity of observing—
which Ido with considerable reluctance—on what fell from the
noble lord, the member for the city of London, in the early
part of this evening. He has stated with great clearness,
and temper, and moderation the groundsvehich have induced
him to retire from the Government of Lord Aberdeen ; and
knowing, as I do, the character of the noble lord, I do not for
one moment doubt that ho has been actuated by a high and
conscientious sense of duty in taking that step, and in with-
holding his vote and supptirt from his colleagues in resisting
the motion of the hon. and learned member for Sheffield.
He has referred to the correspondence that took place be-
tween Lord Aberdeen and himself some time in November,
and he has also referred, and referred, no doubt, truly to the
opinion which he says was conveyed to him by his colleagues
on this question. I certainly thought he was not at that
time justified in resigning his post in the circumstances in
which we were placed; but I beg most distinctly to assert,
that I cannot-hesitate for one moment in thinking that, what-
ever be the position of a Government—whatever may bo the
consequences which may follow such an act—any member of
a Government is entitled, nay, is bound, to separate himself
from that Government in any circumstances of peril to the
country, and of deep anxiety and responsibility, if, when he
proposes a course of action which he considers essential to
the interests of the country, he finds that proposal over-
ruled. (Hear.) I should have felt that I was departing
widely:from my duty, and acting in a way not worthy of myself
or of him, if I had ventured to say, "You have stated that
you think a certain course essential to the interests of the
country, but, that course having been negatived by the head
of the Government, you are bound to withdraw from it." I
should rather have said, " You have only one course to take."
(Hear, hear.) But in my own defence, and without casting
the least blame on him, I must say drat what I felt deeply
at that time was that the arrangement proposed by ink
noble friend, and to which he referred in one of the letters he
read, was a mere arrangement for securing unity of action in
the different dopartments'of our military administration by
combining them into one. (Hear, hear.) His proposal was
that the two offices of Secretary at War and the Secretary
for the War Department should be combined, and that the
two offices should be held by a member of this house. I said
at the same time, that if that change was to take place, and
if it would be conducive to the interests of the country, it
was a chango that should certainly be made, and that there
was no man the country would look to with so much confi-
dence for holding this combined office as my noble friend who
now holds Cho seals of the Boma per.artmeat. (hear.) But
I certainly did not understand that he proposed this change
as essential to the conduct of the war or essential to the in-
terests of tho country. (Hear.) The proposal was made
almost on the last day of Noyember, 4nd it was not commu-
nicated to me till after the notice appeared in the Gazette
for the meeting of Parliament, and I confess that I consi-
dered deeply what would be the effect if I concurred in a
step by which one of my ll co eagues would be summarily
ejected from an office which he held, merely on the notion that
an improvement would thereby be made in the administra-
tion of the army. Now, I frankly admit that, all things now
considered, knowing what the results are, seeing the feeling
of the country, and knowing the • • vigorous mind of my noble
friend the Secretary for the Home Department, I could wish
that when the original appointment war made the office should
have been confided to him. (Cheers.) Ido not say different
results' would have been obtained, but the country would
have had the most tried and efficient man intrusted with the
office, and, whatever the results might have been, I do not
think the same censure would have attached to tho Govern-
ment that is now cast upon it. (Hear, hear.) But I must
say that when I was solicited by my noble friend to join the
Government in June, when the re-arrangement of offices took
place, I then understood him not only
to consent, but to ap-
prove the arrangement by which the noble lord (Palmerston)
holds the office of Home Secretary, and the Duke of Newcastle
that of the War Department. As the Duke of Newcastle's
colleagues separated for the summer they were unable to give
him that advice which he might have wished to obtain in the
very trying duties he had to perform. (Rear hear.) I speak
my own mind, but I certainly do feel that there would have
been the appearance of a want of generosity to have turned
round on a colleague who was acting most ably and labo-,
riously in the office which he filled, and ejected him from that
office to carry out a mere arrangement for' greater unity of
action. No doubt we all concurred in the opinion that a change
might at some time or other be desirable. I told my noble
friend he would probably break up the Government by leaving
it, and that, before leaving it, ho should consider the respon-
sibility attached to such a step. (Hear, hear.) I was ono
who dissuaded him at that time from insisting, g I will not say
on the proposal then made, but from leaving the Government
on account of it ; and, though I knew that my noble friend,
in common with many others no doubt, thought that some,
change might at some distant period be desirable, I cer-
tainly heard with surprise on Wednesday evening that he had
tendered his resignation in consequence of the notice of the
hon. member for Sheffield. I feel the deepest pain in being
for the first time separated from my noble friend—l trust it
will be the last time we shall be so separated. Nothing could
grieve me more than to believe that the rest 'of my life was to
be spent in difference of opinion with him on matters of im-
portance. (Hear, hear.) But I could not, consistently with
the feelings which I think due to one of my colleagues, agree
with him on this question. Do not suppose that I think any
consideration for a colleague ought to stand in the way of the
public interests. (Hear.) But I do not feel that the pro-
posed change
would, in present circumstances, be conducive
to the public interests, and I have therefore felt it my duty
to oppose my noble friend. (Hear„ hear.) I deeply regret
that he is not here now to share the responsibility of
that which he, in common with us, approved of. (Hear,
hear.) One word in consequence' of what fell from my
noble friend; and was repeated by the hon. member for
Aylesbury, to the effect that he has heard that since he left
the Government the very chango which be proposed has
been made —that, in short, my noble friend the Secretary for
the Home Department has been appointed to the War De-
partment. (Hear, hear.) All I can say is that I
,stand here,
a membei of Lord Aberdeen's Government, to defend the
acts of that Government, and to submit, in common with my
colleagues in that Government, to any censure that may be
passed upon it, but I am no party to any arrangement by
which any reconstruction of the Government is to take place.
(Hear, Hear.) Ido not mean to sly what_
this course may here-
after be taken by the Government. If motion is not
carried, it will be for the colleagues of Lord Aberdeen to con-
sider what changes it may be proper to make ; but no changes
such as have been referred to have received the sanction of
the Government. (Hear, hear.) I know orno such changes.
All I say is, that I am a member of the existing Governmerit,
ready to submit to the verdict of the house,
whatever that
verdict may be. If the verdict ie not a hostile ono, we will
then have to consider whether, consistently with our own ho-
nour and our own character, we may not feel ourselves justi-
fied, from a regard to the public continueinterests, to to hold
join, oweve •
the offices we now occupy. I earnestly r, in the
appeals that have been made to the house, not to hang up
this question in an undecided state till Let the
result be known, so that the Government may know the
position in which it is placed, and the country may y under-
stand in whose hands the management of public fours is
to be vested—that the Government, by whomsoever eon-
ducted, may be able to take those measures that the cir-
cumstances of the country eminently require, and to carry
succour and safety and comfort to our gallant army in the
East. (Cheers.)
Mr. WALPOLE—I wish to state very shortly to the house
the view which I take of this subject, and I am not certain
that I should have done so but for the remarks that have
fallen from the right 'hon. gentleman who has just spoken.
One of these was that this motion, if carried, will be detri-
mental to the interests and to the administration of affairs in
this country ; the other was that we were unwilling on this
side of the house to discuss, or did not care to discuss
frankly, a vote of want of confidence in the Government.
Now, with regard to the former of these points, I have always
said in private, and I have no hesitation to repeat it in
public, that it would be a great misfortune to this country if,
tho Government were changed at the present moment, and
that it would be much better for the public interests that
they should reconstruct the Government in such a manner as
to bo able to carry on the public affairs of the country. In
respect to the other charge, of not daringlo vote a want of
•confidence in Government, I wish exactly to state my views
of the present motion. After the speech of the noble lord
the member for the city of London it appeared to me that it
was totally impossible to resist an inquiry some time, and
that the only question the Government had to consider
was what that inquiry should be. (Hear, hoar.) You
have before you the evidence of the noble lord, who is the
I only house out of the Government who knows
person in
all the circumstances connected with it, and who is,therefore,
competent to acquaint the house whether some inquiry is
necessary or not ; and I must say that, after such a declare-
' tion as he has made, it would be a serious disappointment to