The Sun.
London, England, 1855-02-27 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 27, 1855.

LNIPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.)
CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILL.

The LORD CHANCELLOR, in rising to move the
second reading of the above bill, said it was well known
to their lordships that, during the last two or three years,
the subject of the trial of offenders for petty offences had
very much attracted public attention. It was felt that,
during assizes and sessions, cases of persons charged with
petty larcenies had much increased, and caused very
unnecessary expense. He should put that part of the
question aside ; but he thought persons brought to as-
sizes or sessions for petty larcenies of articles worth one
shilling or two shillings created an effect on the public
mind which was very injurious. Such cases excited a
feeling that they ought not to be brought before such
tribunals, ani.: that it was infinitely better if they had
been disposed of a summary way. How to meet that
objection there seemed but one obvious way—that such
cases should be tried before the justices of the peace sit-
ting in petty- sessions. The only question, then, would
be as to the nature of the offences. What he proposed
in this bill was, that magistrates in petty sessions should
take cognisancQ of all simple larcenies, for it was absurd
to say that those justices who could take cognisance of
a case of dog stealing could not take cognisance of a case
of stealing a duck. Then, with regard to the power of
punishment, he did not think it a very expedient matter
to limit the power of justices. He did not think that
very slight punishments tended either to reform crimi-
nals or to lessen crime. (Hear, hear.) He thought,
therefore, magistrates should have the power of award-
ing one year's imprisonment. There was another provi-
sion of a different character. It was proposed last ses-
sion by a learned friend of his now no more—Mr. Ag-
honhy—that where persons were charged with offences
before magistrates, they might plead guilty, and the jus-
tices in that case might sentence them or transmit the
record of the plea to the assizes. He (the Lord Chan-

cellor) had originally prepared the bill in that sense, but
on considtratien he thought that might be productive
of evil. He (lid not, therefore, mean to adopt that pro-
vision further than that, when a party shall be brought
before a justice, and shall plead guilty, the justice may
dispose of the case if the larceny be not above the value
of 20s. The noble lord then moved the second reading
of the bill.

Lord BROUGHAM would not apologise for making
a few observations which he wished to state to the house
on a subject of so great importance. He would impress
upon their lordships' minds the great necessity for
passing some such measure as that now before the house
grounded upon the same principle as that in this bill.
The state of the administration of the criminal law of this
country was most deplorable. It had been described by
many, but by none better than by his noble and learned
friend the Chief Justice (Lord Campbell), who had added
. .

. „
to it by the weight of his great authority. From the
returns laid before Parliament—which plainly show the
absolute, necessity of the Legislature providing a more
summary system of punishmeat in cases of criminal
justice--he would merely refer to those for six counties,
viz. Somerset, Sussex' Berks, Hants, Wilts, and Dor-
set, which comprised a population of 1,800,000, or
1-10th of the people of England and Wales. From these
counties, the returns of the details of the trials and
punishments, and the number of persons tried at the
quarter sessions, showed that, out of 1,500 prisoners
tried, 895, or nearly three-fifths of the whole number,
were for larceny under the amount of ss. For larceny
under the amount of ls. 400 were tried, or nearly one
quarter of the whole ; and 243 prisoners were tried
for stealing property under the value of sixpence.
Upon this calculation, taking the whole population
of this country, he found that 12,000 cases were tried
yearly in England and Wales, where the value of the
property did not amount to ss. These were cases of mere
simple larceny. The consequence of the present system
was, as his noble and learned friend, the Chief Justice,
had described, injurious to the due administration of
justice, and to all those who had to assist in adjudicating
upon such cases, to grand and petty jurors. The prac-
tical grievance was very great—the expenses of all
parties concerned—the' expenses to the counties—the
expenses of the witnesses—and the expenses of the
jurors, both grand and petty, were enormous. But all
these evils he considered, although of great importance,
were not so great as those inflicted upon the prisoners
themselves. The prisoners in many cases were detained
days and weeks in prison, and when they came to be
tried were probably acquitted ; but, if convicted, it be-
came almost impossible to award a proper amount of
punishment, because all of them had undergone--though
secretly and unknown—a certain amount of punish-
ment, and which in many cases was greater than was
due to them in proportion to the crime committed. The
public noticed that for a certain offence the prisoner had
been dismissed with one day's imprisonment, because,
perhaps, the presiding judge found he had previously
undergone 30 or 40 days, but that the public did not
know. It happened to his noble and learned friend the
Chief Justice, at the Lent assizes last year for Bucking-
hamshire, to have to try 15 prisoners, all of whom had
been committed to prison fortwo months, and the average
value of the property stolen was only 10(1. or 12s. 6d. in
the whole.. The course which his noble and learned friend
pursued was, and it was the only one open to him, that he
awarded each prisoner one day's imprisonment. He
(Lord Brougham) could not help feeling, with his nobleand
learned friend, that the magistrates of that county were
to blame for not having an adjourned sessions sometime
during those two months. Each prisoner had been, in con-
sequence of that omission, in prison nearly GO days—in
seine cases a great deal too long for the crime which he
had committed. It vas now perfectly evident that some
course must be taken for giving a speedy and summary
trial in these cases. Ho thought it would be an ines-
timable benefit to the magistrates if they were allovied
the power— he would not force it upon them—in case
they desired to have it, of obtaining professional aid, in
the same way as in Ireland, where assistant barristers
were chosen by the magistracy as chairmen of quarter
sessions. But if all chairmen of quarter sessions were
like his noble friend near him (the Marquis of Salisbury)
such a proposal would be superfluous. He regretted
that the bill introduced into the other house by Sir J.
Pakiugton in the year 1860 was lost. Had it passed a ,
great improvement would have taken place in the admi-
nistration of the criminal law of the country. He (Lard
Broug,liatn) knew of instances of sentences at sessions
which had surprised him. In the year 1849, in a county
he would not mention, three men were tried, their ages
bordering on 70. One was sentenced to six weeks' im-
prisonment with hard labour for stealing to the amount
of one penny ; another was awarded four weeks and hard
labour for stealing to the value of one halfpenny ; and
the third had four weeks with hard labour for stealing
to the amount of one farthing. In these cases he had
no reason to believe that there were any aggravating cir-
cumstances. In another county a man was sentenced,
at 70 years of age, for stealing to the amount of 3d., 12
months' imprisonment with hard labour ; but he took it
for granted that there must have been some aggravating
facts. He would give these particulars to his noble and
learned friend upon the woolsack, in order that he
alight inquire into the facts, and no doubt a satisfactory
inquiry and result would be obtained. All these cases
greatly encouraged the hope that, if they wished it,
an option would be given to magistrates to call in the
aid of professional assistance to preside at quarter ses
sions. He did not believe that any man tried in a court
presided over by an experienced lawyer, in criminal
jurisprudence, would be sentenced to four weeks' im-
prisonment and hard labour for stealing to the extent of
one farthing. He (Lord Brougham) said that by his
bill the jurisdiction was only given to magistrates in
petty session, and to stipendiary and police magistrates;
but his noble and learned friend's bill included those
who, though sitting alone, should be professional men.
With all possible respect to the magistrates of the City,
he should object to extend the jurisdiction to them.
Another case was that of a poor woman in receipt of
355. a-week from an annuity, which was to be stopped
in case she anticipated it. The noble lords who were
the trustees were obliged to stop it ; and the story was
told before those magistrates as though the two noble-
men had, of their own caprice, or worse feeling, kept it
back ; and thus two of the most honourable names that
adorn the peerage or society were slandered. If that
had happened in any case where the magistrate was re-
movable he would not have had a second opportunity of
doing the same injury ; he would have been removed
immediately. The Government of which he was a mem-
ber took that into their consideration. The removable
magistrates were to take the same course—they heard
the story, and then informed the parties that they had
no jurisdiction. But hearing it and having it re-
ported was the great grievance that required to be
remedied. Lord Melbourne, then at the head of the
Home-office, summoned them before him, and in-
ormed them that the thing must not be done again,
and it was not repeated. The same thing could not be
done with the aldermen ; they were corporation jus-
tices, and irremovable. He thought that this power
ought to be given by the bill to two or more justices in
petty sessions, assembled at the usual place where ses-
sions were wont to be held ; and he had no indisposition
whatever to give the same power to any one of the sti-
pendiary magistrates. Since bringing in his own bill be
had had frequent communications on the subject from
magistrates, professional men, and the Society of Jus-
tices' Clerks.
Lord CAMPBELL said it gave bins sincere satisfac-
tion to anticipate the pleasure which it would give to
grand juries and magistrates whom he might address on
the circuit to hear that such a measure was before their

lordships with every prospect of success. Their lordships
could hardly imagine the anxiety of the public in the
provinces for that improvement. That poor wretch who
came before him on circuit for stealing an old shoe, value
one penny, might have been three months in prison pre-
viously. But it might be said, why not hold quarter
sessions more frequently, so as to lesson the evil 8 Their
answer to him publicly was, that they were not bound
to hold quarterly sessions more frequently ; but pri-
vately, they said they refrained from doing so with a
view of the evil becoming so exaggerated as to cure itself.
Things were not so conducted in Scotland. There, the
sheriff in every county and his deputy were always en-
gaged in trying all cases within a few days of their oc-
currence. There was a distinction in the law of the
land at present which was a disgrace to it. As the law
stood now, you might go and cut dawn a load of wheat
on a field, and that was but trespass ; but the removal
of a strip brought the person within the criminal law.
The NOBLE LORD rose again in answer to a ques-
tion by Lord ST. LEONARDS, and said, as we understood
him, that he would not give the magistrates the power
of forfeiture against these parties. At the same time,
justice was now administered most purely by unpaid
magistrates. Formerly the squire used to sit in his hall
and his clerk was his gamekeeper, and poachers used to
be convicted there. Now they met in curia.
Lord ST. LEONARDSregretted the noble lord's in-
...

tended absence when the bill would bo in committee. He

was alarmed at the great extent of punishment put in the
power of these magistrates, who could sentence those
that had pleaded guilty to two years' hard labour, 00i1•

sidering that they were convicted without a jury, he
doubted whether they ought to pa=s it to that extent.
He did not know whether the eases adduced by his noble
and learned friend from quarter sessions were quite ap-
plicable ; for, if they could not trust the justices assem-
bled in quarter sessions, he did not see how they could
trust the same persons when fewer in number. But it
did show how careful they ought to be in looking into
the provisions of the bill.
Earl DESART thought, from his own experience,
that the bill would be advantageous to Ireland, and hoped
that it would be extended to that country.
The LORD CHANCELLOR replied.
The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
be committed to-morrow (this day).
The Purchasers Protection against Judgments Bill was
read a third time and passed.
Their lordships adjourned at 25 minutes to seven
o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY.
THE CONDUCT OF THE WAR.
(Continued from our third edition of yesterday.)
Mr. F. PEEL did not know that he could add anything to
the information he had already given on the subject of the
formation of a land-transport corps. Hitherto the land•
transport service hail been undertaken by the Commis-
sariat ; but as it was found to interfere with the satisfac-
tory discharge of the proper duties of that department, it
had been determined to organise a distinct corps under the
direction of Colonel W3lurdoeb, whose duty it should be
to undertake the luid transport. It was estimated that
ultimately this corps would number 8,000 men, but at first
of course it would not be so strong. He believed that it
was proposed to divide the corps into divisions correspond-
ing and attached to those of the army—(hear)—and Col.
M'Alnrdoch had intimated that he should require one na-
tive driver for every three animals, and one European for
every three native drivers, making three natives and one
European driver for every ten animals. It was intended
that this transport corps should form a permanent branch
of the army, and it would no doubt, in course of time, un-
dergo many improvements. Hitherto the persons whehad
been responsible for the clothing of the troops had been
the colonels of regiments. They had now, however, ceased
to have any interest in the matter, and henceforward the
clothes would be distributed under the direction of the
War-office. The extraordinary clothing supplied to the
army in the field had been supplied by the Ordnance,
under orders from the Secretary for War, and would
be included in the estimates for that department. He
was not aware that there had been any deficiency
in the supply of medicine to the hospital at Balaklava,
and in relation to the alleged deficiency in the sup-
ply of quinine, he might state that Dr. Smith had
informed him that since the army left this country,
he had forwarded to the general store at Constan-
tinople, from which all the hospitals are supplied, 650 lbs.
of that drug. With reference to the recommendations
which had been made by two honourable members, that
we should learn from the French a better system of army
administration, he might state that there are now sitting
in Paris a commission of three officers of the army, an
artillery and an engineer officer, which was inquiring into
the system adopted in that country. The French Govern-
ment was affording to these officers every facility for be-
coming acquainted with their system. Their report might
be expected before long, and its recommendation would
receive the careful attention of the Government.
Mr. E. DENISON said when the army went from this
country to the East it was little contemplated that such
services would be cast upon it as it had since been called
on to perform. Some thought the army would never go
beyond Malta, and others believed that an intrenched
camp at Constantinople would be all that would be re-
quired ; but no one then dreamed that au expedition to
the Crimea would be undertaken. He was happy to see
that a precedent had been set to whichhe would invitethe
attention of the house for a moment. He observed that
an officer of high character and standing—Sir John Bur-
goyne—had been—he would not say recalled, but—
relieved from the position in which be was placed, and
that just encomiums had been passed upon that distin-
guished officer. He (Mr. E. Denison) hoped that would '
go further. In making that remark he wished it to be
understood that he did not indirectly point to the dis-
tinguished officer in command of the army. That, he
thought, was a different question, and the position of
that officer must be decided by more important considera-
tions. He would merely say that just in proportion as the
officer in command of the army was advanced in life was
it necessary that the officers below him should be in full
vigour and efficiency. He contended that it was in the
highest degree desirable that generals of divisions and
generals of brigade should be men in the full vigour and
power of their strength. (Hear.)
Colonel DUNNE said ho considered the formation of a
transport corps one of the most necessary arrangements
connected with an army, but he wanted to know why such
a corps was not organised when the army went out on the
present expedition ? He believed that the loss of the army
was chiefly attributable to the state of the transport de-
partment of the commissariat, or rather to the Treasury,
by which the commissariat was directed. If the transport
department was not at once made perfect, it would bo
wholly useless to the army. He believed that the general
officers had not the means of carrying on the war with
proper effect. He believed Sir John Burgoyne to be as
efficient an officer as any that had been, or could be, sent
to succeed him, and that the country would not gain any-
thing by sending out General Josses to relieve him. He
contended that the great fault of the expedition was its
being undertaken without proper means. One, among
other things, he should like to know, and that was,
how many of the officers of the staff had been edu-
cated at the Military College of Sandhurst ? He had like-
wise to complain of the disproportion of the rewards for
good service given to the officers of the staff as com-
pared with those given to the officers of tho line. He
thought the staff was sufficiently desirable in itself, and
brought officers sufficiently into notice, without giving
them additional opportunities of advancement over the offi-
cers of the line. There was another point to which he
wished to call attention, and that was the subject of bar-
racks for the militia regiments iu Ireland. At that mo-
ment they were paying in most towns in Irelrnd for billets
for the militiamen, and frequent quarrels arose between
the militia and the inhabitants from attempts to enforce
these billets ; yet in the very towns in which those dis-
turbances arose there were buildings which could be hired
as barracks, and it a much cheaper cost than the system of
billeting.
Mr. HARDINGE said he deemed it fair to state, inas-
much as the Government had been more than once attacked
in reference to the military education of the officers of the
staff, that at least nine or ten of them had been educated
at Sandhurst, and had there received certificates of merit.
Mr. J. PHILLIMORE said he wanted to know why it
was that the 46th Regiment was without winter clothing
in the Crimea ; if any person had been punished in conse-
quence of the neglect to provide such clothing; and if, in
consequence of that neglect, the men of that regiment
perished in the most fearful manner?
Mr. IVILLIAMS, in answer to the taunts which had been
directed out of doors, and in that house, against his hon.
friend recently deceased—the member for Montrose—and
himself, for reducing our armaments, begged to remind the
house that in 1835 the army and navy numbered 145,84 G
men, and that in 1852, before there was any sign of a dis-
pute with Russia, the two services had been increased
to 272,000 men, or double the number which the Duke of
Wellington when in office (teemed necessary for the de-
fence of the country. In 1835 the totalnseumasve of nearly
otedforthe
maintenance of the army anshed to eadllnatvbye watatsenltli,e6n67o,footobl.oabnoduisne
51,805020
oi to
0. was
Hle6 ,wsoi , being an increase
to a case of flogging in the army, whichhadrecentlytiatavkeen
place at Newcastle-upan-Tyne, on the person of a pr
soldier belonging to the 26th Regiment, now stationed
there. A paragraph in a Newcastle newspaper stated that
the prisoner, after being stripped, was tied up to the
triangles by the arms and legs, and the adjutant stood by
to count each stroke as it fell from the powerful arm of a
drummer, selected for his aptitude for beating slow time.
The narrator went on to say he bad expected a bloody
scene,
bit the reality far exceeded all that he had heard or
dreamt of human torture. At the fifth stroke of the
lash the flesh of the poor victim rose up in welts as
thick as his wrist ; the blood afterwards flowed about the
body; and after the fortieth lash had been inflicted, he
was untied ; be then staggered a few paces, fell to the
ewnat.s afHterow(ahirdrs.
Williams)subjected
couldt o ground,lonlayanydssa,fya:ioniifit
tesadurcYahwcaosycnefinnenes mea
s those were practised in
the army, the Government would have to double itsbounty
in order to get men to enter it.
Major REED trusted the Government would turn their
attention to the reform of the Horse Guards ; and if that
reform was accomplished, ho believed the country would
notthe maintenance
object
°even
of h
a lati•geerardmey.mand than was now asked
for
Mr. OTWAY saim there were at least fifty staff appoint-
ments in the Crimea, and his complaint was that there
should be a single one of those officers who had not ob-
tained a certificate at Sandhurst, seeing that that college
was established with the view of educating men for the
staff. The noble lord at the head of the Government
stated the other night that the calamities of the army were
attributable to the inclemency of the weather and the un-
paralleled difficulty of the service they had to perform.
He (Mr. Otway) must take exception I. that statement.
He would take the campaign, for instance, in Transylvania
in 1848, which was conducted under circumstances very
much more difficult than those in the Crimea at present,
and in a climate very much more rigorous. It was
clear to him that the calamities that had befallen our
army were in no wise to be attributed to the climate
of the Crimea, nor to the unparalleled difficulties with
which they had had to contend, but to the want of
foresight of those who had not supplied them with
proper MARS fop enabling them to grapple with those
difficulties. If our soldiers had been provided with
huts, warm clothing, and sufficient food, we should net
have had to deplore the calamities which had hefellen them.
(Hear.) He saw that two privates belonging to the 99th
Regt., named Gibson and Galagher, had been tried the
other day for making away with their ammunition in
firing at an effigy of the Czar, and that Gibson had been
sentenced to 52 days' imprisonment, and Galagher to 162
days. He bad to complain that that was a needlessly
severe and an extraordinary punishment for an offence of
that kind, committed in these times.
Colonel NORTH said it was all very well for the hon.
member for Lambeth (Mr. Williams) to read paragraps to
the house, cut from local newspapers, relating to instances
of flogging in the army ; but he would ask the hon. mem--
ber if he knew of his own knowledge that the case to
which he had called attention was true ? (Hear.) Advert---•
ing to the observations which had fallen from the hon.
member a few nights ago, he (Colonel North) had to deny
that the Guards now wore uniforms of the colour of brick-
dust. He (Colonel North) admitted that scarcely any-
thing could be more truly painful than to see the sentries of
the Guards at this moment ; but give those young men
time and the advantages of drill, and they would soon
emulate the bearing of their gallant brethren in the Cri-
mea—those splendid specimens of the manhood of England
whom we were wont to meet in the streets of this metro-
polis. (Hear.) Tho hon. member had spoken of tho pri-
vileges of the Guards in attendance at the Palace. Why, if
the hon. member were at the head of a battalion of sweeps
on duty there, he would receive his dinner. (A laugh.)
The hon. member had displayed an amount of ignorance
on the subject upon which ho had spoken which would dis-
grace the most ignorant lance corporal in the regiment, and
he would advise him, before he again addressed the house,
to make himself better acquainted with the real facts upon
which he was desirous to enlighten the house.
Colonel SIBTHORP pretested against men speaking on
the subject of the army who did not know the muzzle from
the butt end of a musket. (A laugh.) He would not take the
hon. member for Lambeth in his awkward squad. (A
laugh.)
Mr. M. CHAMBERS defended the Guards from the un-
just charges which had been made against them by the
hon. member for Lambeth, and expressed a regret that a
battalion of Guards recently ordered to the East had been
countermanded, because, in colsequence of all the able
Alen haying been ordered, out in the Ant imett,nce, there

was not a sufficient number now to make up a good batta-
lion. One of the great privileges of the Guards was to be
always foremost in peril and danger, and he instanced their
arduous servicss and gallant conduct at Hougomort, and
at the battle of Waterloo, as evidences of the privileges
which the Guards enjoyed in this respect.
Mr. NAPIER thought that some explanation should be
made to the house with respect to the harsh sentence passed
on the two men at Chatham for firing at the effigy of the
Emperor •f Russia.
Colonel KNOX expressed his opinion that if ever there
was an offence of which a man could be guilty in his bar-
racks, it was that for which those two men had been so pro-
perly punished. Would the house for a moment sanction
that any man in the barracks should be allowed to make
away with the ammunition given him for the public ser-
vice in an indiscriminate fusillade ? He considered that
the men had received a most salutary punishment, and he
hopod it world have the effect of checking such great irre-
gularities in future. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words front Mr. STUART KNOX, deny-
ing the accuracy of the statements read by the hon. mem-
ber for Lambeth from a local newspaper, the house went
into committee on the

signally exempt from disease. Many of them were very
comfortable, all of them were in a state of health and
vigour; but the reason was easily explained; they were
all men of independent fortune, who could command beasts
of burden, and they furnished themselves with all those
little requisites that were denied the soldiers. (Hoar.)
Another great evil arose from the enormous amount of the
work the soldiers had to perform. The British army un-
dertook to do too much, They undertook to defend an
extent of lines which their numbers did not justify them
in undertaking. The consequence was, that the soldiers
were a long time in the trenches, their strength was totally
exhausted, and they became unfit for duty. (Hear.)
He had heard instances of good men saying to the sur-
geons, " We aro quite well, but we are worn out with fa-
tigue and the want of sleep; if we go on sentry we shall
fail asleep, but if you put us on the sick list, after a few
hours' rest, we shall return to our duties." He had known
of cases where the doctor, knowing the men, had acted in
conformity with their request, aid in a few hour' the men,
returned to their work. (Hear.) He had heard state-
ments, likewise, respecting the want of medicine at Bala-
klava ; and there appeared to be some signal mismanage-
ment in that as in every other department. A medical
man told him, before he left the Crimea, that, late in De-
cember, he went to procure a considerable quantity of
opium, which was a sine qua non in the treatment of the
cli-iea.se that had scourged the army. But the quantity of
opium in store was so small that he could get it barely in
ounces, and on his return to the camp he found himself in
the disagreeable position of being obliged to tell the sol-
diers that, greatly as be regretted their condition, and
much as be felt for them, it was impossible for biin to ob-
tain the medicine which was required for the malady they
were labouring under. (Hear, hear.) There was another
point connected with this subject to which he hoped the
attention of the house would be directed, namely, the
state of the transports that were employed in conveying
the sick between Balaklava and Scutari. (hear, hear.)
He believed that since he left the Crimea things had con-
siderably improved; but, when he was there, there
was great room indeed for improvement. (Hear, hear.)
They could hardly picture to themselves anything more
wretched than the condition of the poor men who were sent
to Scutari from Balaklava. They were sometimes wholly
destitute of anything like beds or hedding. (Hear.) He
saw 600 sick and wounded men who were brought down
from the plateau by their generous allies—the French.
(Hear, hear.) It happened to be a wet day, but they were
taken as they were on board the transport which was to
convey them to Scutari. These men had nothing what-
ever to protect them bat the great-coats they had on and
another blanket, and in that condition they were com-
pelled to lie devra en the deck. So great, however, was
the change from what they had been enduring in the camp,
through wet and exposure, and want of proper sustenance,
that thoagh they were compelled to take for their bed the
hard deck of the transport, they looked upon it as the
acme of comfort. (Hear, hear,) That did not last long,
for when a sick man has to lie for some time on a hard
deck he suffers from it, though for two days he might do
it with impunity. There were 300 men on board, and the
passage to Scutari was a rather quick one. Bat oa their
arrival at the hospital there was no accommodation for the
sick, and ten days elapsed before the greater number of them
were landed. That was the trying period for the men,
and they died off very speedily. They lost during the
time that elapsed between the period they left Balaklava
and the arrival of the vessel at Scutari 11 per cent. out of
the 300; but the greater number of those died during the
time the ship was kept at Scutari. (Hear, hear.) The_
French managed these things better. They were not half
so tender with the Turks as the British authorities were.
(Hear, hear.) When they wanted an hospital they went
and took it— whereas the English entered into a long
correspondence, which took up such a long time that the
whole matter terminated by their losing their chance. He
believed the scheme had been already carried out of estab-
lishing an hospital at Smyrna, but there was another sug-
gestion made by a man who had had great experience in
India, and that was, to send out from this country large
wooden buildings for erection at Sinope, which was a short
distance from Balaklava. By doing that, they could have
their sick and wounded conveyed from Balaklava in a very
short time to a comfortable and quiet hospital. In the
event of there being any further engagements it was to be
expected that there would be a large number of wounded,
and those men could be conveyed down to this hospital,
and there at once have the necessary operations performed.
Hitherto it had been the staff experience of a surgeon that
secondary operations had scarcely ever been successful.
Those performed on the field were generally successful,
but it was impossible to perform anything by a secondary
operation, when the patient must be conveyed such a long
distance as from Balaklava to Scutari. In the event of
this plan being recognised as a sound and good one, which
the Government would carry out, many valuable lives
would be saved. Another advantage would arise from the
establishment of this wooden hospital. Stone buildings con-
tracted a deleterious atmosphere, that militated greatly
against the recovery of patients. They seemed to be impreg-
nated with disease, and disease hung abort them. But in a
clean wooden beilding that was not the case, and an emi-
nent physician belonging to the civil department recently
organised to go out to Smyrna was so fully cognisant of
skis fact that he was endeavouring, by all means in his
power, to bring the subject before the Government. He
(Mr. Dundee) trusted the Government would take the
matter into their consideration, and not think it unworthy
of their notice. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MAGITIRE thought the number of soldiers sent out
to the Crimea would be fully equal to the duties they had
to perform ° • but they were not cared for, and the same
blundering that marked the administration at home had
also marked the administration abroad. (Rear, hear.)
His belief was that the blundering aid stupidity of the
last Government had caused more damage to the British
troops than the fiercest valour of their Muscovite foe.
(Hear.) He would mention one instance of mismanage-
ment that had come to his knowledge. A large ship, hav-
ing 190 bullocks on board, to afford fresh meat to the un-
fortunate men in the trenches, arrived at Balaklava. The

captain wanted to get into Balaklava, but some stepill
nincompoop—some wretched fool—by his blundering stu-
pidity, for five days prevented the entrance of that vessel.
(Hear.) The consequence was, that out of 190 bullocks 80
only were landed, and, being mere skeletons, died in a few
days. (Hear.) The troops were actually mu,dsi ed in the
trenches becatts3 sufficient precautions were not taken to
provide for theni, and the blood of those men lay at the door
of sonic department of the State. (Hear.) He wished for a
termination of the war, but considered that until Lord
Raglan was replaced they would not have a vigorous pro-
secution of the war or a triumphant termination of the
struggle. (Hear.) It had been stated that for a long
time Lord Raglan was not seen in Balaklava, and that the
soldiers scarcely knew him, and ho (Mr. Maguire) c'on-
si.leie l that a man on whom so great a responsibility de-
volved should take care that the troops were kept in a
pl oper condition. Ho begged also to call attention to
the fact that the nunebet of Catholic chaplains with the
army was not sufficient to cope with the great amount of
duties which the sickness in the camp alone would impose
on them. Of the number sent 'out, two bad died, four
were invalided, and two only were fit for duty. The Ca-
tholic clergy„were, in fact, unable to perform the duties
imposed upon them, and it was cruel to overwork them as
they had been over.vorked. The contrast between the
treatment of the English and French soldiers was disgrace-
ful. There was ono good effect arising from the charge at
Balaklava, and that was, to raise the character of the
British soldier more than anything else could have done.
But the French saw that the bravery of our troops went
for nothing, because the stupidity and incompetence of
Biitish officials rendered the valour of the troops and the
courage of the nation almost nought. (Hear.)
Capt. ARCHDA.LL begged to call attention to a few ap-
pointments recently made in the army, which were accom-
panied with a certain degree of injustice to old and merito-
rious officers. He alluded to the appointment of Generals
Bentinck, Campbell, and Pennefather to the colonelcies of
regiments. They were worthy, no doubt, of every reward,
but is the way iu which it was conferred an injustice had
been done to other officers. (Hear.) He was not satisfied
with the answer given by the noble lord the member for
Tiverton with respect to the case of Sergeant Sullivan,
who on account of his general character and abilities, as
well as on account of his bravery, was entitled to promo-
tion. (Hear.)
_ _ . _ _ - _ _

Colonel BOLDERO had heard from one of the directors
of the East India Company that great advantage had been
experienced from the issuing of porter to the troops in
India. (Hoar.) He wished to ascertain the quantity of
porter that had been sent out to the army in the Crimea,
and whether a fresh supply had been sent out ? He also
desired to know if any portion of it had been sent back to
England, and the quantity sent back, as well as the cause
for returning it ? He wished also to ascertain whether
the agent who made the contract with the Government
had not furnished a bill for the detention of the ship at
Balaklava of a considerable amount ? (Hear.) He wished
likewise to know whether the porter was supplied by open
contract or not ? He again begged to call attention to the
case of officers returning from the East in a sick or
wounded state. He knew a young man who hat returned
wounded, and who went to the medical board the other
day. They were astonished at the progress he had made,
his health having been improved at a heavy expense to
his family. He received, however, only 501. from the
board, and that he (Col. Boldero) considered was a very
great injustice. (Hear.)

Mr. WILSON said there was not the slightest ground
for the report that porter had been returned to this coun-
try because there was no officer to receive it at Constanti-
nople, nor was it true that the contractors who had sup- '
plied the porter had brought actions against the Govern-
ment for a breach of the contract. The fact was, that
four cargoes of porter were sent out for the use of the
troops, but in the whaaawhile the troops having changed
their quarters, the porter had to follow them, and all the
disputes which had arisen between the Government and
the contractors related to demurrage for freight. (Hear.)
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 151,1001. for allowance to the principal
officers of the several public departments of the army,
Mr. F. PEEL said it would be seen that this vote did
not include the salary of the Secretary at War, as that
office had been added to that of Minister for War. (Hear.)
With regard to the allegation of an hon. member, that two
men had been too severely punished for firing their ammu-
nition at the Emperor of Russia—(a laugh)—he begged to
say that he had looked over the depositions taken before
the court-martial, but he could not find the slightest allu-
sion to the Emperor of Russia. The charge against the
men was, that they had injured the public property in
having fired away their ammunition, and one of them was
sentenced to 140 days ' and the other to 42 days' imprison-
ment. The reason thatdistinction was made in the punish-
ment was stated to be that the first man was a very bad
character, and had been three times convicted before.
Mr. OTWAY had never said the men had fired at the
Emperor of Russia ; he only wished they could have had
the chance of doing so. (A laugh.)
Mr. 0. O'BRIEN asked if it was true that an order had
been promulgated against the enlistment of Irishmen in the
brigade of Guards ?
Mr. F. PEEL had never heard of such an order.
Mr. MAGUIRE reminded the honourable member that
he had not answered his question with respect to the
clergy in the Crimea.
Mr. PEEL understood the number of clergymenheom
em-
ployed in the army of the Crimea was forty-two,
twenty-four were ministers of tho Church of England.
Mr. Mr. MAGUIRE said that of the clergymen allotted to
the Roman Catholic portion efthe loafat.
wham
in-
valided, and he should iffourh
steps ad beenbeen h eglad to knowy had e
taken to supply their places ?
Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said could give the lron.
member some information upon the subject. The number
of clergymen allotted to the army was according to the re-
lative proportion of the men belonging to the Church of
England, Roman Catholics, and Presbyterians. Formerly
it was thought that at least a third of the whole army
were Roman Catholics. and the clergymen allotted were—
twelve for the Church of England, eight for the Roman.
Catholics, and four for the Presbyterians. Afterwards it
was proposed the different denominations should be al-
lowed to increase the number by voluntary subscriptions,
and accordingly the number was increased to twenty-four
Church of England, sixteen Roman Catholics, and eight
Presbyterians, the increase being made up half by the
State and half by voluntary contributions. He believed,
howeyer, that within the Dot -two _ari_three years the Ito-

man Catholics ii the army had been far less than a third
of the whole.
Mr. MA.G LURE thought it was derogatory to the dignity
of the State that the spiritual wants of any portion of the
army should be supplied by voluntary subscriptions. As
for the latter remark of the right hon. gentleman, he be-
lieved that more than a third of the men sent out to the
Crimea were RGmau Catholics.
Mr..WILLIAMS .wished to know whether it was in-
tended that the three departments of the Commander-in-
Chief should be consolidated ?
Mr. PEEL said that subject was now under the consi-
deration of the Government.
Colonel NORTH asked if the clerks in the War-office
would receive any gratuity for the increased labour which
the war had imposed upon them ?
Mr. PEEL replied is the negative, because the increased
labour had been met by the appointment of additional
clerks..

Mr. BERESFORD should never object to any increase
of staff when circumstances called for it, but in the autumn
of 1852 a commission sat which recommended that certain
duties in connection with the militia might be added to the
Horse Guards without any increase of staff, and yet in the
spring of 1853 the Secretary at War proposed an increase
of nine clerks in the War-office. The report of that com-
mission had never been published, but it was very extra-
ordinary that the reports of two subsequent commissions
which sat upon two otter branches of the War-office had
been presented to Parliament and published.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 17,725/. for the Royal Military College,
Mr. BRADY drew attention to the disproportion which
existed between salaries of the governors of the college and
the remuneration of its medical officers. The governor and
lieutenant-governor received 1,825/. a year, while the me-
dical officers received only 3321. He was satisfied that if tho
country knew this it would never sanction such jobbery.
Mr. RICE protested against the term " jobbery " being
applied to this institution. It was a great boon to the
military profession, and instead, as had been asserted, of
officers' sons having to pay 103/. a year f©r their education,
they only paid 401., but, of course, they must show that
their friends were nut in a condition to pay more.
Colonel NORTH said the charge was regulated aceord-
ing to the rank of the father.
eneral PEEL wished to make a suggestion to Govern-
! ment. We were going to spend a large sure of money in
the establishment of a camp at Aldershot. New, he would
suggest that the college at Sandhurst should be associated
with that camp, and then staff officers would have an op-
portunity of pratically as well as theoretically studying
the duties of their profession. It was impossible to learn
all the duties of a staff officer theoretically ; but if the
senior department at Sandhurst were removed to the camp,
they would have an opportunity of learning the practical
parts of their pretension. He hoped, else, that lectuTes
would be given at the camp, at which all officers could
attend as well as the non-commissioned, who, he trusted,
would soon be allowed promotion from the ranks for merit.
Mr: BRADY wished to explain that he had no intention
of throwing any discredit upon the establiament at Sand-
hurst, but to call attention to the fact that one-ninth of
the sum of nearly 18,000/. voted, was allowed to the go-
vernor—a sum he thought, larger than necessary. •
Lord LOYAINE said if the *fibers were obliged to re-
ceive instruction in the different branches of the army, it
would be a much better system. A. great error prevailed,
which confounded the staff officers, whose business it was
to carry messages, with the officers of the adjatant-gene-
mars and the quartermaster-general's departments, which
required much higher qualifications.
Sir G. PECHELL complained that the charge for the
staff of the college at Sandhurst was a great deal more than
if they had a proper establishment with properly paid offi-
cers. A. lieutenant-governor was all that was necessary.
He also believed that the sum paid by the cadets was more
than most of them could afford.
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the sum of 4001. for forage
for the governor and lieutenant-governor.
Mr. PEEL explained that the sum was required to ena-
ble those officers to discharge their duties.
Colonel DUNNE said the system hitherto had been to
discourage an officer from learning his profession. At Sand-
hurst the cadets could not learn all the duties of staff offi-
cers, but they required a knowledge of fortification draw-
ing and other matters which they could not learn elsewhere.
The suggestion of the gallant general (General Peel) was a
most valuable one.

The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote was the sum of 23,3671. for the Royal
Military A.sylunuand the Hibernian Military Schools.
Lord NAAS bore testimony to the value and efficiency
of the Hibernian Military Schools, and he hoped that if an
increase was made in the English establishment, an in-
crease would be in justice made in the Irish one also. He
asked what the original number was, and what addition
was to be made ?

Mr. F. PEEL said the number at present was 350, and
the additional number was 120.
Mr. NAPIER, also urged the claims of the Irish esta-
blishment.

Mr. S. HERBERT explained that in late years the num-
ber originally fixed by the Duke of York for the Royal
Military Asylum had decreased, and the Secretary at War
for the time had seized upon that portion of the establish-
ment thus vacant for the normal school for training regi-
mental schoolmasters. Under- present circumetanoes, the
number of orphans had increased, and it was intended to
bring the school up to the original number. The plans were
already prepared, and he hoped that in a short time they
would be completed ; in the meantime, arrangements had
been made in the existing building.
Mr. WHITESIDE would put the question to a simple
test. Let the Secretary at War make strict inquiry, and
if he found Ireland had equal claim he was bound to make
a corresponding increase in that establishment.
Colonel DUNNE was certain that there was some claim,
for the increase of orphans by the war was as great iu Ire-
land as in England.
The vote was then agreed to.
A vote of 83,0001. for volunteer corps was also agreed to.
The next vote was one of 3,813,3831. for the embodied
regiments of militia.

Colonel DUNNE asked what was to be the quota of the
Irish militia ? He also expressed some objections to the
expensive system of billeting them.
Colonel DUNNE se Bested to the Government the pro-
priety of inquiry whether there was any objection to put
arms into the hands of the militia. Ife did not believe
they would be able to obtain recruits in Ireland without
embodying the militia.

Mr. PEEL said the suggestion should receive due con-
sideration, and the whole of the Irish militia would be
called out if occasion required.
Mr. WARNER suggested the propriety of providing
temporary barracks wherever the militia wcs embodied.
Lord LOVAINE inquired whether it was the intention
of the Government to adopt any compulsory measures
with regard to the militia ?

Mr. T. PARKER called the attention of tho Govern-
ment to the clothing of the militia, which, in eoino cases
was inferior to that given to the rural police, and even to
that supplied to felons. The recent issue of boots had been

of a most shameful description. Many pairs had become
utterly useless, the soles having left the bodies of the
boot!. ( Laughter.)
Lord PALMERSTON believed that in general the
clothing supplied was of good quality, but there were some
cases in which it was of an inferior description. The late
Secretary at War had made an arrangement by which the
colonels were themselves to look after the clothing. With
regard to the question of the noble lord, he had to state
that the Government had no intention to resort to the
ballot at present. Representations had been received at
the Home-office of the difficulty of raisin.. men -in some
quarters, and recommending a resort to the ballot, but his
answer had been that he was perfectly convinced that men
would join in due time, and that the best course was to
leave it to their good feeling. (Hear, hear.)
Colonel SIBTHORP believed that the men who had
joined were generally highly approved, and that the force
would be most efficient.

Mr. M. MILNES said he was aware of eases in which
colonels of regiments had written to the War-office stating
that they had men ready to recruit for particular regi-
ments. But after the lapse of some time the dispositions
of the men changed. Now, he thought it would be better
to give the colonels greater facilities for sending up men
who wished to join the regular army. (Hear.)

Colonel KNOX wished to call the attention of the Go-
vernment to the subject of the transmission of pay from
soldiers serving abroad to their friends in England. Great
complaints had been made on this subject, and in many
cases the parties applying for the pay could get no infor-
mation as to where it was to be obtained. Any impedi-
ments thrown in the way of parties to whom money was
so transmitted would tend greatly to discourage the sol-
dier. There was another subject to which he wished to
call the attention of the house—the system of hospital ser-
vice in every regiment in tie army. The general system
was, that lihen a man went into the hospital the surgeon
took a description of him, the name of his parents, and
an account of the money in his possession, so that in
the event of his death there might be no dispute. Now,
he regretted to say that in the hospital at Scutari the
whole of these arrangements had been tota►ly neglected,
and the system of plunder and robbery that had been car-
ried on was perfectly disgraceful. Many men had gone in
with 71. or Bg., but the breath had hardly gone out of their
bodies before the whole disappeared.

Lord PALMERSTON apprended that the delays which
had arisen with respect to the payments transmitted arose
in this way, that when the applications were made, the
pay-list had not been received. Of course the money could
not be paid until the regimental pay-list was received
showing the amount due to the men.

Mr. M. MILNES said there appeared the other day in
the newspapers on account of a proposition having been
made to the War•office to transmit a certain sum from

this country to persons lying in the hospitals at blcutari
and Constantinople, and that the War office not only de-
clined to receive the money, but stated that the persons
lying in the hospital at Scutari had received every comfort
and everything that money could supply, and that such
assistance was perfectly superfluous. He should be happy
if the Secretary at War could infeisathe house whether he
would be able to afford the means by which the charity of
this country could reach those unhappy men.
Mr. A. STAFFORD was glad the attention of
a housethevisitto
had been called to the subject. W
the hospital-there was not a single dhaeynobe wasnwll)lLe matter
was not pressed upon his attention. There_ were soldiers
to whom pay was due who
could not send any portion of
it to their relations in England. They said, " We do not
ask charity, we donot ask subsoi iptions from private hone-
volence, but vie saY
that in our sickness caused by the per-
fermance of our duty we ought to receive what we have
earned, and send it to our wives, sisters and
other relatives in England, but by the regulations
at Scutari we have been ever and over again re-
fused.” (Hear, hears) He had seen letters from female rela-
tives stating that unless money was sent to them to pur-
chase a mangle or set themselves up in some way of bisi-
nese, there was nothing left for them but the workhouse
or prostitution. (Hear, hear.) It gave him great pain.
to hear these brave men make such complaints day after
day. There was no redress, and the reason was that no
regimental paper had come from the Crimea. The Secre-
tary at War stated that he had given orders and instruc-
tions to remedy this evil at Scutari. Far from hearing
that statement with satisfaction, he had heard it with
great despair, because, although it might have arrived be-
fore he had the opportunity of addressing the house on a
former occasion, it had nob arrived, and it was his firm
conviction that it had not arrived yet, so that the great
evil which existed at Scutari when he was there existed in
full force at this very moment. We ought to enable the
poor soldier to draw, not as a matter of favour or private
benevolence, but as a matter of justice, such slims as he
might see fit, not only for his own comfort, but to send
to his relations. (Hear, hear, hear.) With respect to
the men who had been obliged to come home, none of them
had been paid since they arrived in this country. A man
came here with the loss of a limb ; he wished te go to see
his friends ; but he was unable to do so because he could
not get his money. The Minister of War, on the other
hand, had very justly said that it was the duty of all in
their several localities, to do their utmost to. =dace men__
to enlist in the army. Bat what could individuals do in
way, when these young men who desired "
we have.
told by others whom they met in t!he/treotlo -
seryed country. abroad ; we came 4sane w.otumea ; but

we cannot
.get our money?" Such was ____
another proof of
the reign of routine. He was sure that the noble lord at
the head of the Government, and the hen, gentleman the
Under Secreten7-at-War would be most anxious to
remedy these Void other evils, and he therefore iniplorecf
them to depart from the spirit of routine in the
_present
instance, and do justice to those who had fought so bravely
and suffered so much for their country. - - -
Mr. S. HERBERT said the hon. gentleman who had
jast sat down had not given a correct description of the
regulations under which pay was issued to the soldiers. The
hon. gentleman stated to him some time ago, upon his re-
turn from Constantinople, that there was great difficulty
about paying the men in the East. Now, there could be
no doubt that even by official routine the men were en-
titled to receive their pay as .the honourable gentleman
stated, and they were likewise entitled to have facilities
which would enable them to remit the money to their
friends' at home. When the army went to the Crimea,
in order that the circumstance which he had; just
mentioned should be generally known to the men,
Lord Raglan was requested to publish a general order
directing the attention of the troops to the regulations
with respect to the issue of their pay. That was
accordingly done, and when the sick and wounded
i were removed is Scutari, an officer was sent to act as pay-
master at the hospital; but it would appear that he was
totally ignorant of the regulations of the service, for he de-
parted from the official routine, and did sot afford the
men those facilities to which they were entitled. When
•t he subject was brought to his notice in that house by the
hon. member for Northamptonshire, he instantly wrote to.
Scutari that those men who had not had the facilities to
which they were entitled had helm grossly ill-treated, and
that they ought immediately to be made aware of their
sight to remit money to their friends at home. It was true
that when the men arrived at Scutari from Balaklava
they had to statement as to the amount of money due to
them. He was not surprised that that should occasionally
have happened, but the officers at' Scutari ought to have
done immediately what heknew they had done since--paiii
every man on account from the day he left Balaklava. •He
hoped the evil was now rectified ; if not, he trusted: the
Under-Secretary of War would look to it, and would select
the best men he could find and send them to replace those
who were inefficient. He ought to mention that the hon.
and learned member for Enniskillen asked him sonic time
ago whether it was true that the men in hospital at Scutari
had V. deducted as stoppage from their pay. He an-
nounced at once that the men in hospital from iajaries or
sickness contracted during operations in the geld were net
liable to any stoppage beyond the ordinary stoppage for
rations. No more they had ; but the hon. and learned
gentleman had some reason to put the question, for he
found afterwards that the regulations had been violated,
and the men obliged to submit to a stoppage of 9d. out of
their pay. He might add, however, that upon hearing
that fact he instantly wrote to the fleet that, whatever
might be the inconvenience, every farthing of the money
so taken from the men shouid be paid back. (Hear.)
Mr. WHITESIDE said it was observable that whenever
any abuse was -brought before the hots°, it was sure to be
attributed to "routine." Was there ne way of killing
routine ? (Hear.)
Mr. STAFFORD was net surprised to hear that the
right hon, gentleman the 'member for Wilts had written
numerous letters to Scutari ; but there was ens plan which
he had not adopted, and that was neither more nor less
than going to Constantinople himself. He was now re-
lieved from the cares and duties of office ; and since he was
unable to ascertain correctly what was going on at Scutari
—since he was so dissatisfied with the whole of his letters
—he could only recommend him to try the effect of his
personal presence, and hi order to obiiate any Parliamen-
tary difficulty he was ready to pair with him at six hours'
notice, and accompany him to Scutari for the rest of the
session. (hough.)

- -
Colonel• A RCHDALL was sure there mist have been
some exaggeration in the statementsin the letters from the
female friends of soldiers in the hospital to the effect that
if they did not receiveremmittances they would be obliged
to resort to prostitution. The Central Association had
been established for the express purpose of supporting the
wives and families of soldiers sent to the East, and he knew
it had supported no fewer than 13,900 persons, at an ex-
pense of about 1,0001. per week.
Mr. PEEL, referring to the remarks of the hen. member
for Pomfret, said that no less atone than 18,00 W. had been
remitted by soldiers in the East to their friends is this
country, in small amounts, averaging 2/. 128.
Mr. H. A. HERBERT said the right hon. gentleman
the member for Wilts had stated that some stoppages had
been made at Scutari, contrary to the regulations of .the
service. Was it noepossible to ascertain whose fault it
was, and to visit the offenders with punishment ? (Hear.)
Mr. S. HERBERT thought he had stated that the fault
lay with the paymaster at Scutari, and that he desired a
proper person to be sent out to replace him.
Mr. CRAUFURD complained of the want of barrack
and hospital accommodation for the militia in Scotland,
and hoped the Government would take steps to supply
what was required.
Mr. PEEL said the Government would make all the ar-
rangements iu their power to provide the accommodation
referred to by the hon. and learned gentleman.
Mr. WALPOLE asked the noble lord at the head of the
Government whether he had heard that the principle of
volentary enlistment for the militia had been materially
interfered with by the bill for sending out certain militia
regiments to garrison places in the Mediterranean Y. If the
fact were so, it was well worth consideration how far that
bill should be acted upon to its full extent.
Lord PALMERSTON said the number of militia who
could be sent abroad under the bill passed before Christmas
would form a very small proportion of the whole. But, of
course, there was no accounting for the erroneous impres-
sions which might be produced in the minds of the people,
and it was possible, though he had net heard of it, that
some might have been deterred from entering the militia
from the notion that they would be liable to be sent
abroad against their will. The house, however, was quite
aware that by the recent act no man could be sent abroad
unless he himself, individually, agreed to go, and there-
fore those mispprehensions, if they did exist, were totally
un fonn el.

The vote was agreed to. On the next vote, that of
22,0001. for allowances and rewards for distinguished ser-
vices,

Colonel KNOX urged the importance of the institution
of some order of merit for the reward of officers and sol-
diers below the rank of field-officers, to whom the granting
of the Order of the Bath was limited. The institution of
such an order would do more to promote the improvement
of the army, and to excite emulation in all classes from the
highest to the lowest, than would the giving of any possible
number of commissions. lie suggested that what he de-
sired might be accomplished by granting the Order of the
Bath to captains and subalterns; and by the institution
for non-commissioned officers and privates of an order of
merit which should carry with it double pay and double
pension.

Mr. APSLEY PELLATT called attention to the injus-
tice which was dono-by depriving a corporal promoted to
be a sergeant of any good-conduct pay ho might have re-
ceived in his previous capacity.

Lord HOTHAM called attention to an abuse which was
a consequence of the mode in which this vote was adminis-
tered. When a colonel was promoted to the rank of general
he did not, unless he had served a certain number of years
as an effective field-officer, receive the half-pay of a gene-
ral, but only that due to him in virtue of his previous com-
mission. In more than one case a general not entitled to
general's half-pay. had received one of those pensions for
distinguished services, and had then been put upon the list
of general officers receiving general's half-pay. Now it
might very likely happen that a meritorious officer might
not have served long enough to entitle him to general
officer's pay, and it might therefore be very right to recom-
pense him by a pension for good service. But it was not
right then to proceed also to give him general officers pay,
because he had obtained this good-service pension. The re-
sult of that was that those who had not served long enough
to obtain general officer's pay might be better off than
tho:o who had.
Colonel DUNNE quite agreed with the hon. member for
Southwark (Ur. Pellatt) in thinking it very hard that a
corporal should lose his good-service pay on being pro-
moted to the rank of a sergeant.

Mr. WARNER observed that by this vote pensions et
1001. each were proposed to be given to tke adjutant and
quartermaster-generals of the army in the Crimea. Now
he did not think they ought now to reward officers whose
conduct had been attacked and was about to form the sub-
ject of inquiry before a committee of that house. He would
move to omit these items from the vote.

Lord PALMERSTON said that the pensions proposed
to be given to the quartermaster-generals and adjutant-
generals of the army in the Crimea were to be awarded to
them for good service in the face of the enemy at the bat-
tles of the Alma and Inkerman, and he did not think that
giving rewards for Finch conduct could at all fetter the
house in coming to a judgment upon the general arrange-
ments for the management of the army made by those offi-
cers, which was to be the subject of investigation before
the select committee of that house. (Rear.)
Lord EBRINGTON thought that some provision should
be made for defraying the cost of the outfits of the ser-
geants to whom commissions were to be given.
Mr. PEEL pointed out that a sum of 5,0001. was pro-
posed to be granted for that purpose.
Mr. OTWAY complained of the manner in which iord
Raglan's conduct had been prejudged by some hon. gentle-
men, and remarked that he had yet had no opportunity of
being heard in his own defence.
Mr. WILLIAMS asked if it was true that the sergeants
•in the Guards who were to be promoted to the rank of
officers were not to.receive commissions in their oAu regi-
ments ; and if so, what was the reason ?
Mr. PEEL was understood to remark that this was a
matter within the province of the Commander-in-Chief.
Mr. CRAUFURD said that the pensions to be given to
the adjutan t and quartermaster generals were to be awarded
to them in their capacity of adjutant and quartermaster
generals. New, he thought it was not advisable to give
rewards to dicers whose cencliet was about to be the sub-
ject of investigation.
The amendment was not pressed, and the vote was
agreed to.

The CHAIRMAN reported programs, and obtainedleave
to sit again, and the house resumel•

WAYS AND MEANS.
The house then resolved itself into a committee of ways
aid mesas, and
Mr. WILSON moved that towards making good the
supply granted to her Majesty the sum of 17,183,0001. be
raised by Exchequer-bills for the service of the year 1855.
Agreed

- THE CONSOLIDATED FUND.
The Consolidated Fu*d (2,000,0001.) Bill as amended W&s
considered.

The Cone°lidated Fund Bill (20,00,0001.) wised through
committee.

MILITIA (IRELAND) BILL.

On the motion for the second reading of this bill,
Colonel DUNNE said he had no objection to the bill if
the last clause was left out. The clause had nothing to
do with qualifications or indemnities for qualifications,
and it could not pass without notice.
Mr. NAPIER caused some laughter by pointing out cer.
taia absurdities and anomalies in the working of the )ill.
Mr. KEOGH disclaimed beinganswerable for the p rase.
ology of the bill, and contended that though it was some.
what obscure, the intention in every case was clear enough.
The bill was then read a second time.
PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.

On the motion of Sir B. HALL the select committee on
the Public Health Bill and Nuisances Removal and Dia-
e"es Prevention Act Consolidation and Amendment Bill,
was nominated as follows :—Sir Benjamin Hall, Mr. Irton,
Mr. Wilkinson, Mr. Adderley, Lord Robert Grosvenor,
Mr. Horsfall, Viscount Goderich, Mr. Fresh&ld, Mr.
Austin Bruce, Sir John Itanmer, Mr. Knight, Mr. Gore
Langton, Mr. James M`Gregor, and Mr. Thomas Greene.
On the motion of Colonel NORTH,' an address to her
Majesty was agreed to, for causing the royal warraintr ri°
gulating promotion and retirement in the Ordnance, to be
laid on the table.
The other orders of the day having been disposed of, Vim
house adjourned at one o'clock.