The Express.
London, England, 1857-07-11 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 11, 1857.

eons who prod at bast • carnes Cbriellesity, it sne
only carrying out the list ; bat it was riesling • new Ira
to say that those who were not Cheldlese legialate for
a Christian land. Another .grew led bra set up, whir
hid down that it wee ahead to mg that the
tune would be an-Christianised by the adairsion of the
Jeer bat the question erne. sot the ceastitutiou
of the'sesuably, but whether it rethesedehe grist... of
Christiesity. The vitae !erg of the troths,
the legislative body ere Mehra or wee. did they
ever to be severed by the Criers riethird art doe-
,
' deice injudging of ell matters which err Wen thee.
You could net reach the heart of ors `welt • matter
ell you could get ma what they rodent If you admitted
lo the House OE C 0111411011.4 roes who rifted to believe in
the faith of Chit am they understood la, red that it was the
Epiaci* which gerraud cheer rather me logiskran,
rik& deft yes, het they did se in the rry teeth of
gesbeeker. The dirges white bed bees already made
is the serration et perlierest dirdested this errant.
There was a tree whoa pertlerrent wee • wry prortamt
Wefts; ft would may ft sayer it wee now a.meli.
Ceilegiatere It erth* wee sot. If you
rrdpie ef edowlag parer to tats per is the I"rii=
dead** eftry who did sot prime to be t.'hald=l,fi
yr mired graft sea, yonerred the rift
sic Crider legifture, in ogre to eft k tedrar
It was nil the rift barer ea poorer et ther of
rah ma err* that warn to be croft* bet the ph
which the astir bed settled for the prearest arra
of W beidelare. Was toleration held by sey a their
lerhatir is le wide • sear es ft Yid dowall
eastber noble red hosed lorl,thet you earl set to
may ter he the issielarre or ..east et his trees P If
that aes would yes sink • demos who rift to
oft there in order trogrit Ids rinelphs, sr ray re
whew religious belief Ids to odor • Noe ef conduct
which would be fetal to the stele y Timmthee yen sat draw
ftthe Ilse eausewlars end then would be sane were It sad
er thr Wag the peorska of the Orris aft the
tit; aft yes roped tiat weft mid It yes rifted
awe Jewish idleres tato peutt you rust admit
ft Hideo sadthen Narraters Worriers, end
eft Ws, If any, wise desir the et-
hane, et • (led. If itb e could be thews that the religion
hal by the Jiro draft.' him ?ma telly g eft poet r Cbrie-
We hOletter it was not tinier te rem Ihs eiborion to
• Chihli= Wahines. There tree • rest aftetir W-
eyer the rftiftering and the nereg afros. sed aft •
ra Weft, duly qualified ler
dray herd without there being thy her d his rellear
lii rderibring with the due dischasible dudes. • err
wirier i.e could duly end fait didathe a Crie-
rs code; but • ortioatious Jew ft bathe* melee
Miura 1n,.. The right rev, reds tier presedd
razed fare sr dormice to fts, that It ft In-
fer Cartier to unite is hearth with
who denied the great astir pert of
*dr faith, the err mad abuser
sift of the
heetfor, sad thet It ft ftemelble kr the heft= of •
Criera cowry net to perks of the Weft reactor
sod yftelpir mad set to ma net.. to the dot-
ard tribe el the Criers after. Theft It vas that
he had ihred to doe ft iftsteeleu ef latelefte,
croft thie Wrong that Orr wee rear dos
:eat to, and
atbst
ft Cotwe
le rho ft se • Cluift perk,
We oar ler wirer
abeadrt erre. (Cheer)
euthh=filan3TLL rM that rase hle able Mind
the Friar el the Oftil had eft so erember
ef the presort hod rarer ft boar rd es
sift swift hed beri ere egret Ss eft left
by de gorfteftrizeially by tie add sr=
mod de right no. (Warp ttf Oftil), he
thy • thet weeds We deft de de ft rids( •
Wee her , the geraufte bri or hr dr chase ar her
tier brands woke the ereldwrir el pedierst our
eft rig earthy bathe efteles ef the let Is pear
Cri day led ft fteared la their stieeft—
ar r, bred ; end were
it art right sr kin dist do is
rerred raft after to b the Weft of the here
varhar fns ? Ha verfter Y teed the fret dr
Woe or tide lefts • adds Wad of hissfts that he
era sat supper the Neer trig ef the MI berm it
read the weer, el • drat era rid the words
"er the res Idlit of • Chafers rd • aft awl
ft user Y We piss, Led
add a Wirbstajthlas Vilna
d the swore. a
or the raft awes mil cedar, eel slot It would
be • Afterward to Ciriftelly If the weeds was.
erre he ft eft The greftesi, tifteers, dear
eftelt the eredes el the rift of the Jews to pear
Eft la •We whit rift set to be reelared
daft se ay amide brie who deft* to Or
ear ft reeds the tree did of • Maria" It
keperbie to seremay reechoes la the oft whited
raking the rift of the Waft of the Jews to erli•-
oet
It raid sere be perible to get the HOMO of Cem.
seer to asks ray emerift la the rho if that ruse WY
word aft Is bald ft rafter without the retention
advise wore. The sate emet (Dorybed side it ea err
✓ift raft the preen that they were lefteter
ark arrives, beers la this VII or It now stood
the MPS we atelsied ken errs ode. Bat then was
ea
thaerrat Martha isseleed r that eseitearat. It
right be reeessable le sink the less is person, win
re gee..width they
Choeer With
I. th
sneenreled whit eressikes
efistheft. ;
rledrtlrl lira IL
they
weft to modes
wsr
ded direly ith
the Pableit sr so
the ershilebei *rah. With
to whet brier Ara by the smile ad or to Wet
prier et is Wortley Waft • derestra el Baser
oftelke mud his sable trier at the had el ft efts-
ft, although he (the Dube of Aryl) wee at
so her r the obeftier redo by
Clat'amble Mori wave raft by the rid
dubs red the noble ad iskrai4 he ad net tee that they '
arra the ererseft to may Wins. Had the aft ft
bresdfoe die her al a gorafter bre se *swift el
ores la rite is wee ford rot peril& to a
gedlereat ny ft to.
Andwoipretherd, Is the her al as*sileg
Itek d the noble lewd, who hag User es seri—
who bed lir ad et rat nod berg net at err deers ef
ha, but with the whole enriches white Ids gerearsr
ere heard— tsar
_the new {stns../ with whet
they bed date f breve( that the imesereme et the
Bear after peer bed rafts ray le aria wade
whisk mrefted • dederettor with fted to the wthreessay
ef the It wee • very dread areltia whether
rot to be • aew rib ft the
R ; Vrt wee MO 'Wok they WINS Way
=rid to dad Wit r thin li. The aria Mr this
Wird In re ardeerat of the INeep d dist If di
nit yes rift Wok Wereaft sr
thenhe Wired that sir ft peer it ft per
dblo her BeigherT deers
Whe re rby •
to err sr We the rerrii
Haw relW theredre CMYeens Wes it then raft
mir sr Is reedier* with ea sersessie. to es that each •
I=lrgr the mewed to the artery • L per-
Misr, hear.)
Aker • lbw weals from the Bed of Otttowtm la Sept
▪ the 111,
The here :
Ordeft—Preat
Tarr
_46-139

-name
Priam

Majority spirit NM tal
The bell was aceadboly drown out.
POLK'S (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Tbla bill wia roads *he! dam
- - - - - -

TieliVrisiiiiiilleaTioa7ri prow to 12.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Fatovr, JOLT 10.
The Sraotio took the char at 4 o'clook.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.

=fealty was prepared to answer the quer:irons of which be
had given notice, he would proceed at once to put them to
Win. They were as follow.: Whether any recent intelli-
gence had been received as to the ?seen and proceedings of
her Mithery'e forces in China!' 2. Whether her Mairety'a
goverwoent had wig out any instructions empowerieg the
Indian government to divert from their destination the troops
which had been sent from this country to Chios, and employ
them in India? 3. If no such instruetions had been sent,
whether it was true that the Governor-C./emend of India hed
of hie own authority, acting under the premium of creme in
that country, sent orders to Ceylon that the Seem rent from
this °wintry te China were, on their arrival at Ceylon,
m to
proceed to India? And lastly, whether her Majesty • go-
vernment were prepared to state, in the event of it. being in•
tended that the troops sent to China should bs immediately
employed in India. what mune they proposed to take for
strengthening the Breit!' forces in China t
Sir C. WOOD, who wan almost unintelligible In the gal-
lery, wee understood to say that he did not exactly know to
what extent the right hon. gentleman wished him to answer
his queoion with regard to the present position of affairs in
Canton river. The last letters they had had from Sir Michael
Seymour were tiered the 10th of May, and at that time
things in the river remained very much so they were. No
hostilities of any kind had taken place on either side, sad Sir
Michael was waiting for reinforcements front this coun-
try. Three gunboats had shandy arrived and four
others were known to be on their wiry from Singapore to
Canton, where they were hourly cep:Tied at the time Sir
Michael wrote. [ the right hon. gentleman woo here under-
stood to add something about another flotilla, but ho was
even more than ordinarily indistinct.] Aa to question No. 2,
no such instrucrions tad been emit. Ac to question No 3,
no orders had born sent by the Governor-General of India for
such a diversion of the troops. It was known that he had
written to Lord Elgin to auk whether that might with propriety
be done; but whether Lord Elgin had reoeived such letter
wan not known when the last markers were teeeived from
Point de Oalle. It was supposed he had not. As to the
bet question, no answer would he needed after what he had
steady stated.
Sir J. PAK !SOTO?? sated whether, in the (nowt of Lod
Elgin's acceding to the apple:akin of the Governer-General,
the noble lord had any power or authority under which he
could raiment to the diversion of them troops from their
destination!

Sir C. WOOD said that of course when Lord Elgin left
England nu ouch events as had taken place were contem-
plated ; end Lonl Elgin bad no authority, instruction, or
orders under which to act with regard to these troops.
Whether, acting on the principle.'• salsa popWi naprma
est lex." he might consider himself ju►tifed in complying
with the densual, he (Sir C. Wood) could not say, but the
noble lord hal no instruction/ on the point.

•
conoequenee of thin would be that inroads would bo made into
the interim, and the populace would ho brought down lobe
rhipped et that place' tut it was aleselute filly to Nippon
that there would ever be isnythin; like free emigration. The
wretch.' erealares would be driven like ectle to the coast,
and there .Hipped like 'larva; e n mull per head would be
pint to those who brought them (Herr, here) It would be
'in truth and in fat a revival of the 'Live trade; and he
woe sorry to my that the French were not the people who
had the eel/m.464n of dealing in the in rt horror moron
with prof' erwitunni tri situate. S nun years mg r the knruch
took possescion of two ports Ac.inco and Onind Dawn, on
the coast near Ashantee. It was well known how I...wherein.
the Ashrutees were ; sid no doubt if the French atteiugtod
to get supplied at those ports, a regular supply of slam
would be brought down from Ashantee. He therefore
with., to put the following question to the noble lied
Whether any ronimunicrtien had token pier between the
English and French governments respecting the exports of
Derives fnou the wen coast of Africa to the French rolonies
in the West ladies; and whether ho WAS owner in what
manner the names were to be obtained ?

Sir B. BUXTON said it was undoubtedly a fact that
many persons had been taken from the east roast of Africa,
and had bon conveyed as free colontda to the fete of
Bourbon, where they were practically wade slaves, and kept
in slavery, either for a long term ,K the wholeof their natural
here. Ho should be glad if the noble lord, in anawering the
que.tiou, would also state whether las knew anything et that
practice.

Viecount PALMERSTON—Her Metleety's government
had information, some time se, that • contract had been
made by the co plonists of Martinique with a French firm for
the eupply of 1,200 free weeds, who it wee said were to be
brought from the west mast of Africa. I feel the full force
of the remarks made by my hoe. friend the member for Marc.chester. (Hear, Sear.) Though, on the one band, slavery
being abolished in the French colonies, the ragmen who arrive
there could net practically become eleven (it is possible they
might be bound to emcee:et of apprenticeship, extending over
a term of yeses), yet, nevertheless, the bringing those neves
from Africa would, in all human proletbilitt, degenerate onto
a slareetraile ex far se Africa is coneerned—(hear, hear)—
and would ho attended with all the evils which accompanied
the slave trade, although tee negrod, after they at-
tired on the other isle of the Atlantic. might not be
in a state of slaver/. Attempts have been made, on the part
of Great Britain, to obtain a free emigration of n from
the west comet of Afrid for oar West India bound,. Those
stops have failed ; the negroes are not dieposed to go ranee
the sea ; and therefore the great probability is that the
French government will be equally unnucceseful as far as
regards obtaining a really free emigration. If the contract
is carried into emeroution, it will be productive, to the extent
to which it may go, of the evils connected with the slave
trade. Thera considerations have been eonfidentiall com-
municated to the French government ; the commuo
were chiefly verbal ; and they have !Immured us that it wee
their anxious draire that thin arrangement should not he pro-
' deceive of the evils of the eleve trade, and that every attention
and care should be taken toprevaot the recurrence of such evil..
So the matter now stands. Of course, It will be incum-
bent upon this government to obtain all the inforntation we
can, in order that, if our fean should be realised, we may
bring to the knowledge of the French government that our
intentione are fruetrated ; and I have no doubt that the
French government, with the Anxiety that they have shown
for the extinction of the slurs trade, would discontinue • pro-
ceeding which was not only contrary to all principles of
humanity, but to the treaty is into which they
have entered in common with o countries. (Hear, hear.)
My hon. friend behind me asked if we had any information
with regard to emigration to the Wand of Bourbon. We
have had information, not coming from any authentic source,
that there wits emigration from the east coast of Africa to
the Island of Bourbon ; but I cannot exactly may in what
manner the nogroes have bees obtained who were than sent.
The motion for the adjournment of the house till Monday
was then agreed to.
PROBATES AND LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION

BILL.

The hove then went intocommittee on thin bill.

On the question that clause 40 shouldstand iart of the
bill,
The ATTORNEY-0 EN ERAL beepoke the attention of the
committee. He could not but think that there wee some mis-
understanding in the decision come to on the amendment on
Monday night and perhaps the great portion of the
blame was attributable to himself. It wee represented that it
would be a great boon to farmers and other,, having large
stocks, If probate were allowed to bemadeinthe district mutts.
Supposing the committee to have acted on this view, he had
endeavoured to alter the terms of the clause so as to include
the Hese of property referred to ; but he thought the com-
mittee would readily acquiesce in another view which was
MM. prominent in his mind at the time, namely, the
facility which would be given for baud in dealing with
funded property, if the amendment of Monday night were
adhered to.- The duty in the diatzion ores would generally
be discharged by cloaks receiving 23e. or 30s. a wee* end
who could not be expected to be proof against pecumary soli-
citation. Thue, probates might be improperly obtained to
Informal or fraudulent wile, which would give the parties
taking them out full command over funded property in the
course of twenty-four or 1 orty-eight hour.. The MUM coarse
might be pursued with forged will. When a person west
to the Bank of England to tranefer each, the beaker who
accompanied hire was understood to vouch that he was the
pet, redly booing the right to the stock. Thus eevveerryy
&catty wee given Off the transfer. If anything occu red
which threatened to destroy a beneficial measure, which had
been desired for thirty years, it was not surprising it Ito pro-
moters exhibited something like vexation ; but on the last
°cession he had stopped at this point, in order that he
might aek the committee to retract the Injurious decision
at which they had arrived. The course he proposed was
this—to draw up a clause which should give the district
mute power to grant probate in mere when the property
attune within the dietriet did not exceed 3,oool.—fandei pre-
pity and stock and Ames not to be included. In the owe of
sharer, a person who had improperly obtained probate might at
OWN) trenrfer the shares to en agent who wee implicated in
his fraudulent proceedings, and them the property would be
Lost to the estate. He threw out this euggeetion with • view
to further consideration, and he hoped that the committee
would adopt it. He peopeed that the question "That the
clown do stand part of the bill" should be negatived, with •
view to the introduction of meek a clause ea be had described
on the bringing up of the report. Fora variety of conside-
ration. the government thought it would not be wire or pos-
sible to give the district commie a power of granting probate
beyond 3,0001.; but the matter would be open for the consi-
deration of the committee. It wee only on terma of mutual
conceraion and compromise that they could ever expect the
bill to pros into law. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HENLEY thought the more desirable course would
be to have the proposed new clause brought up again in com-
mittee, end not on the report an the bal. When the hon. and
learned gentleman spoke of 3,0001. of p within the
district, he mint have meant Many part of
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—In
Mr. HENLEY repeated his wish that the cleave should
be brought forwent on committee.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the suggestion wee
an improvement. He would adopt it, and bring up the new
clause in committee.

Mr. WESTHEAD said that he acted for mesons who
were well acquainted with this rubject—aolieiton and mer-
chants in the country—and he could hold out no expectation
that they would be satisfied with the proposed limit of
;MK (Hear, hear) He was content that stock sad
Monty 'bores should be dealt with as at present by the
Prerogative Court of Canterbury. To show the large
amount of property which was the object of Melmmetary
bequest in the north of England he would call the attention
of the committee to the following statement of the number d
will. proved in the Diocesan Court of Chester and the Pre-
rogative Court of York. In the five yeas from 1861 to 1836
there were two wills proved where ?he_ personalty was
upwards of 300,0001., four upward, of 200,0001., upward.
160,0001, four upwards of 140,0001., ten upward@ of
120.0001, six upwards of 100,0001, nineteen upwards of
80,0001„ twenty-eight upwards of 60,0001., fifteen upwards
50,0001., thirty upwards of 45,0001., 200 upwards of
26,0001., 458. "wards of 12,0001, and 2,066 upwarda of
10,0001. (Hear, hear.) The total number proved
where the property wee above 10,0001. was 4,058,
not taking into account the Lancaster Court, nor
the courts of Nottingham end Durham. (Hear, hear.)
He certainly thought that when there were to be but 42 die.
tact coma in lieu of 400, they could afford to pay sufficient
mouneration to those who conducted traShielli of somuchim-
portance. Where we there any evidence of fraud in the
premed eystem ? The registrar of the archdeseenry of Not-
tingham doted in his evidence that 4,800 will, peened through
his hands in the mune of 28 pars, and that not one of them
had been repudiated or smoked, while only two contentious
mem arose out of the whole. What mid be better than
that P There was no mama, therefore, to suppose that there
would be more frond. new than formerly If the coma were
properly ofileered. With regard to the indexing of wills, no
doubt that was of great importance, but Mr. Trevor, the
officer of the Perogative Court, stated that he could find the
will of any one in the county in five minutia and the name
of any nvidww7 lamas in tea minutes. There need be no
trouble, therefore, in having a correct index of wills. He did
not think it she that villa probably drown up by wheel-
masten should he left in the care of persons in receipt of
25e. a week, when there we • probate tax of 900,0001, out
of which they meld be sufficiently remunerated, which would
induce twin to transact the Maine's in a manner agreeable
to themoolves, and with safety to the parties with whose in-
tam* they were entetedho.peaßeare bear.)
Sir J. TROLLOPE the house would not revoke
the deliberate vote which it had shady come to on two Retie
-
rate emotions. By that vote the committee wished to affirm
• principle, and se a detail—that principle being that per-
sona reeding In the country should be at liberty to tramact
business of tbie kind with those persona with whom they
were benotofore in the habit of transacting It. The object of
the Attorney-General seemed to be to make business for the
court it London. (Hear, hear.) He was dadrous
that the bill should pre, but then he desired
Stet it Mould pass in a made that would be acceptable
bolas ocantry. As the hill now stood a person in the aim-
leyshoull go to his solicitor, who mad write up to his agent
in Leaden—which agent In London would have to employ
lausbod, else. He would put it to the home whether this
was not likely to be attended with entwine. Mem bear.)
He Hi Mond take his stand the question of limitath .
amidend the holm would stultify Melt if it silo the
dare to be negatived. (Ham)
Mr. ATRTON said it would be impossible to go on with
the bill lakes the clams suggested by the hon. and learned
gpeatlean was before the holm.
In re& to Mr. WTORAN,
The Af TOW:EY-GENERAL said that he thought it
usaddil n ilia amity of is soak of England and other

huge concerns, that their stock phould not be tynnplerred
without tip, additional socti.'y of a metropolitan probate.
Colonel !Oil' CII raid the bill would no: be scoeptable to the
country unless there was a largor limit than was proposed by
the Attorney-Comorel.
Sir F. K FILLY sail he Ira torso notice of a clause, the
Pfrort of which would be, that u•, os probate or administration
bring granted by the nogistrtr, ao stuck in the Bank of
England (and he had no objection to add East India stock
en -1 railway shore.), .Saul.) be transferred under a country
probate units.* it wen countersigned by the central officer in
London.

Mr HUDSON thought the bill highly objectionable, and
that it Wrl.4l,ranerdly dislikel in the e.euntry.
Mr.
was riCnOusLivldhlinS be e•id then; le,;lo•7Lid., tbehe
dangexAt
ing the limit.
I, WOA.L. P
wee,LE hide
it
hl:rreAttorney
-General
-1
the probate grunted by the district registrars; end
the other was, whether with peered to fundid property
any Betio questionsetou beberreut thee:
• prerogative probate should not in all cases he required. In
order to decide the first of there two questions, them wee no
mum why they should negative the clause. It was only
necessary that a new prop- e should be brought up for that
purvotte. Having listened to the diraussion which week place,
be Could not understand on what ground the Attorney Ge-
neral would be able to maintain the bill at all if he limited
the amount of the district prdo.de, because all the arguments
which applied against granting protean. of wills exesieding
8,000/. equally applied to proteges where the property was
under that amount. The statement of the hon. gentleman
opposite (Mr. Westberell that with regard to pro-
perty amounting to 19,001/. there were no Ins
than 2,000 wills priced in Chester and Yorkshire
alene-ratrue.k him very forcibly. and sheered etearl,y then the
limit of 3,000/. could not be instilled on any principle. (Hear,
hear.) What he should suggest was, that it was better to
maintain the clause as the hour rattled it the other evening,
the more especially as the Attorney .General said the govern-
ment did not steed pledged to the limit et 3,000/. An to the
introduction of chimes into the 1011, so we to ensure preroga-
tive probate In all cases rebitiug to funded property, be
should give hie full support to hi. hon and learned friend in
that particular, but he (seeld not say that they should re-
ject tin clause which took away the limitation from district
probate,
whenw all the eneurnente for each limitation applied
equally agains having may district probate at all.
Mr. ELLICE (Coventry) nerd he heard with great regret
the Attorney-General expressing his ',pinion that if this
clause in the bill were retained it would be a question with
the government whether they would proceed with the mea-
sure at all. (Hear, hear.) He regarded the measure as one
of the most important piqued to vehement for many years,
and the country would view its failure with regret. (Hear,
hear.) But having some experience in the probate courts, he
doubted whether, if any thing like a limit of 3,009/. was put
on the district pmbetere, it would not he better for the country
to submit to the inconvenience of the prevent system. (Hear,
hear.) The business of the probate courts wee better con-
ducted than that of any rotten in the country, and he never
beard any complaint made against them except
that they were too many. It would be better to
give the practitioners the exclusive privilege
et prectie?:iregft: these courts for rome time longer,
before admitting general practitioners, than to give them en
Indemnity where none was necessary. (Hear.) He should
regret, however, if, because the committee insisted, as they
ought to hunt, that justice should be carried to the home of
every teen, the government, in a moment of disappointment,
abandoned • meet useful and salutary measure.
Mr. MALINS saint that, having reimported the govern-
ment on the former occasion, he wished tee state the reuses
why he could not support there on the present occasion. The
government no doubt were anxious to get out of the present
difficulty, but in attempting to do so they abandoned the
whole principle of the bill, end took up • new principle,
and that he hoped the committee would never unction. The
principle of the bill was that there should be
• limit to provincial probate, but that it should
extend to every kind of property. That was the
principle of the bill, and therefore he was sur-
prised to hear the Attorney-Gencrel my that the limit should
not be 1,5001. ma prepared, but 3,0001, and that he WOlll4 not
atop even there. That probate, however, wee to cover every
description of property ; but they were now told that it
should not cover 1004. consols era single share in a railway
or in ejointwiteck bank. He wanted to know why. If the
district courts were fit to administer property of one descrip-
tion to the amount of 3,000!., whet was there to prevent them
from administering property of another description amount-
ing to only 1001. He thought the property of the
poor men wee as much entitled to protection as the
trillof the rich men He believed it was the
ed if • man obtained probate of • forged
will, and the Bank of England mid hire money under the
probate, that was a good and valid payment. He could not
therefore concur in the principle that the Bank of England
required protection.
Mr. HENLEY said he ewe no opinion as to the 3.000!.
limitation. He only wished to postpone the question. Every
one knew that be was opened to any limitation all through.
The ATTORNEY-GENERA L mid that amongst the new
ensuentents of the debate, if there was en y amusement West
all—(laughter)—was the sudden conversion of the hon. and
learned number for Wallingford (Mr. Melina), after voting
in the woe lobby with him on the former occasion, (Hear,
hear.) He should like to know the canoe of this eloquent
declamation and sudden rativereion on the part of the hon.
and learned gentleman. (•• Hen," and laughter.)
Mr. MALINS —No reinvention whatever.
The ATTORNEY-GENERA I.—Then the delightful con-
sistency between the speech of to-night and the two votes the
other evening. (Laughter.) This might be intelligible to
the hon. and learned gentleman, brit he wee sure It must
be quite unintelligible to all those who heard his speech and
marked his conduct. (" Hear, lee," and a laugh.) He
would take leave to say it was not the government who were
in any diMeulty, but the people of this country who were in
diffingty, from the course now about to be adopted. (Hear,
hear.) The course taken by the government was this. In
ceder to accomplish what wee represented to be a great good,
end to give an opportunity to persons In humble circum-
stances to prove wills in their own district, they departed
from the true principle, which was that all wills should be
subject to that perfect registration which could be given by
a general central register in London. The general current
of opinion in the report of the commiadonere was in favour
of some 0011C4:461012 being made, and accordingly a departure
was made from that principle. The government thought
that 1,5001. would be a proper and convenient limit for
county probates. But the boon had now come to a different
understanding, and decided that there ehould be no limita-
tion at all. The right bon. gentleman the member for Oxford-
shire, to where mature judgment on these questions he desired
to pay every possible respect, euggeeted an enlargement of
the compromise, to which the government seceded, and in
order to meet that ennension on one ride, a concession was
rude on the other side that the county probate should not
include funded or share (An Ho MENITIER—
lmlerty w.
Not share properry.) We I, untied property ; and that un-
derstanding having been merle, the hon. and learned member
fur Wallingford now said that he could not see, what
he thought must be plain to every other gentle-
man, why a distinction should be made between
Consols end any other kind of property. The simple
difference was that • man might easily run away with • large
amount in Camila, while he could not easily run away with
more materiel descriptions of property. For his own past,
If he were to exprera his individual opinion—which he gave
up, however, in deference to that of others—he should frankly
say that with regard to property locally situate in the coun-
try—he meant each property as agricultural stock, actual
stock in trade, and so forth—there should be no limitation at
all. [Sir O. Grey here said something in an undertone to the
hon. and learned gentleman, which caused him to turn round
and to pause fur some time, to the amusement of the house.)
With that expression of what he himself felt, he would only
add that he should most unquestionably persevere in the
course he had intimated, of opposing the motion that the
clause as amended stand part of the bill. But he did so on
the undemanding that he would bring up • new clause
which would be considered, and be would not be obstinate
with regard to the amount at which the limitation ae to pro-
perty should be fixed.
Lard PALMERSTON agreed with his hon. and learned
friend u to the first question so distinctly. put by the right
hon. member for the University of Cambridge, and it did at
first appear to him that some limit ought to be tiled so to
the amount of property locally situated ; the general sense of
of the committee had, however, pronounced against it—(hear)
and es the limit was not essential to the principle of the bill,
which was one of very great importance, and as it would be a
very great evil if any difference of opinion as to what he
would call the subordinate details—(hear, hear)--ehonid
cause he postponement to another salon—(bear, hear)—
and se It appeared that they were reedy to mutual con-
cessions—on the one hand, to agree that theta should be no
limit as to local property properly so called, exclusive of
funded property, and, on the other hand, reserve the question
of railway and other Aare, for future consideration—he did
not think it would be worth while to put the committee to
the trouble of dividing on the clause; he would, therefore.,
waive the motion for disagreeing to the clause, (Cheers sad
laughter.) The new clause would be brought up in com-
mittee, and not in the report.
The dame was then agreed to amidst cheers and laughter.
Clauses up to 50 were also agreed to.
On clause .51, ea to the appeal from the county court,
Mr. MALINS said this clause gave the appeal from the
county courts to any court of common law. Ile thought it
would be better to give the appeal to the Court of Probate ;
it would be more consonant to the principle. He moored to in-
vert the words, "Court of Probate, wheee decision shall be
final." In properties of small amount one appeal would be
nifilcient.

111741i'RT ON suggested that as the common law courts
eat only in term, if the appeal was to them, the probate might
often be delayed most inconeeniently.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL woo quite prepared to
epee to the amendment, but he wished to consider bow it
had beat be carried into effect. In the act referred to in
the clones, the mode of appeal from the county courts was
extremely simple, and he would wish to preserve Ilte same
mode.

-711; amendment was then withdrawn, on the understand-
ing that the Attorney-General would bring up a clause to
awry it into effect.
Sir F. KELLY ',tithed to take the opportunity of urging
on the government the propriety of equalising the salaries of
the county court judges; since their salaries had been fixed at
1,200!. their business had enormously increaaed, but only a
favoured few had got the increasie of eatery to 1,11001.
Lord PALMERSTON reminded the hon. and learned
gentleman that lam year an act was passed which presided
for the equalisation of the salaries, though not exactly in the
NU* desired by the hon. gentleman, by it all Wanes were
prospectively reduced to 1,2001. No judge to be hereafter
appointed would get a higher Wary. By an act of lent

session the alteration in the fees had thrown a burdsa al
100,000/. a year on the public funds, and an increase in the
judges saforics would involve a large additional charge.
Sir J. Tit EL VWNY suggested toads might be got by
abolishing the °lli,* of high bailiff.
The clause was then agreed to.
Clewoa up to 8 I were also ngroed to, with the exception of
Claus S 3, which •-,u struck out.
On claim, 8.5,

expro.wed a hope that the Attorney•
amend would take into consideration the propriety of
increasing the sal .iies of the registrars, In eCIaSeqUeDOC of
the great inereste of their duties.
Sir W. HEATHCOTE said that when the bill of la
yew was before the house, there woo a general feeling that
the eateriees of the re itistrotre were unreasonably high.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL received the uopreision
from the debate last year that the rendition of the servants
was better than that of the masters; he looked on the d.ei-
sion then arrived at as a proof of the influence exorcised
ever certain members by the country attorneys, an it...due:nom
which hod been furl' ler exemplified that evening.
Mr. CAYLEY thought the remark of the At'..rsey-
General, with regard to the influence of country attormys
upon hon. members, woe scarcely justifiable. What was it
but the influence of the London attorneys and the pre --totes
Butt had prevented such a hill as that now under contidera-
t ion from being carried many years ago? (Hear.)
In reply to a rplation from Mr. Stoops co,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL oliovved that the judges
and regietmee of the county court. now received thee on
account of additional business; and when there had been
sufficient experience of the working of the system the ques-
tion would no &mitt endentro further consideration.
The clause was tLen agreed to.
On dais, 96, n I eine. to the taxation of costa,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY observed that this clause
volved the whole question of compensation, and required
explanation.
Mr. HADFIELD said be should like to know what wan
included in the tuna "costs," whether there was to be •
table of fora for the business actually done, or whether, is
addition to paying the probate, legacy, and auccession duties,
. porn were to be taxed for the benefit of the proctors, the
registry., and the Rev. Robert Moore. The principle by
which the themes were regulated at present, that of Oa
ad valorem duty, Wee meet unjust, and tempted pawn to
evade the proving of wills. The proctors were the only elms
of persons who had sought for compensation as a profession.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL aid the hon. member's
remerks would here bean more in place had the queetion
under conaideration horn the important one of the corepews-
, non to bo paid to the proctors. The question before the cow-
mines. wee whether the rule which had hitherto been bend".
daily obeerved es between attorney and client should be ea-
tended to the cane of proctors and those who rewried to them,
—he meant the rule that costa should be subject to taxation.
What the acale of eats should be was a very important ques-
tion to be determined hereafter, lie would take that oppor-
tunity of stating that whatever compensation the hewn
might be pleased to give must come out of a fee fund to bo
created by the mots which w old be impose!.
An Hox. Mrm OM wished to know what the scale of fees
would be, and whether the Attorney-General would lay M
on the table?

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the r.cale of fees
would require a great deal of attention on the part of the
Lord Chancellor. He could not undertake to lay it on the
table, and if it were on the table, hen. members not being
ormeersant with the minutiae of the business to which A
related, would be unable to form correct opinions with
regard to it. Ac he had gated again and agrun,
the fees to be t barged most depend on the money
required, and the money required would depend on
the compensation given. If the compensation were large,
the fees would be large; if the compensation were small, the
fees would be as Polon as those which were now generally
paid as between elicitor and client.
Chum 1116 was then agreed to.
Onetime 11.
Sr If. WILLOUGHBY wished to know whether any of
the oompeneation was to come nut of the Consolidated Fund?
Mr. MALINS said, in his proposals he certainly did not
contemplate taking a single farthing out of the Consolidated
Fund; neither should he propose any addition to the existing
charge. What he desired was the continuance of the existing
charges fife a certain naiad.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the fees would be
so regulated as to provide, if possible, an adequate compen-
sation fund; but AB to the other chargee, although they
would primarily coots out of the fee fund, yet, the Fey-
meets being of a permanent character, if there were acy
accidental daeimtcy in the fee fund, it would be charged .de
the Consolidated Fund.

Mr. BARROW thought that the requisite buildings, at
all events, ought to be provided out of the Consolidated l'und.
Mr. ROLT obaerved that the business of the Court of Pro-
bate was carried on at present in buildings belonging to the
College of Advocate.. lie thought clauses should be inserted
in the bill for the college to dispose of their property.
Sir J. TROLLOP E said, as the public were accustomed
to the deposit of deeds at the College of Advocates, it might
be desirable that they should be deposited there still, and
that an arrangement should be mitered into with the owners
of that property with that view.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said on a former
OXIISIOIL he etatod in great detail the opportunities
which were presented for the deposit of wills at
Somerset-house in the most convenient form for references
an inepection. The Registrar-General bad devoted a
great deal of attention to the subject, and had furnished him
with plans which showed at how little expense all the wills
in London and the country might be stored and arranged at
Somerset-house, where they would be in immediate connexion
with that great sture-oMu of statistical information, the
office teethe registration of births, des and
ths,
marriages.
It wee his earnest hope that he should see all the trills in
the country so arranged at Somerset-house that they might
be at all times inspected. With regard to the court itself, it
we. no doubt very clearable, if not absolutely essential,
that It should have its local habitation in immediate
vicinity to the superior courts of Westminster-hall, and one
result would no doubt he that the advocates would follow the
court A great part of Doctors' Commons belonged to the
Faculty of Advocates, and he had on several missions ex-
pressedit as his opinion that they had a right to dispose of t; end if his hon. and le-trued friend (Mr. Rolt) would pro-
pose clauses with a view to the attainment of that obuct,
they should have his beet consideration.
Sir F. KELLY said he took it for granted that when his
hen. and learned friend the Attorney-General expressed a
hope that all will, would be deposited in Somerset-house, be
meant only copies so fax as country wills ware concerned, it
being an essential provision of the bill that ell wills. shouldimmedla
be so U
meow Wted thattcone. interested would be abbe to gain
to
Me. CAYLRY sold nothing would be more objected to is
the country than the idea of removing original wills to
London.
_ _

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL mid no such idea had
been entertained. The subject was one on which the feelings
of the inhabitants of the country must of course be cenaulted.
He regretted very touch that country write must remain in
the country, because be thought the retention of them there
prevented the collection of a great body of valuable Informa-
tion. The building of suitable depositaries in th ? country
wee, in fact, contemplated in the bill.

Mr. WESTIIEAD observed that he had given notice of
an amendment which he intended to move on the bringing up
of the report, to the effect that wills proved in any district
court should be deposited in that court.
Clause 87 was then agreed to ; as was also the last clause
of this bill, namely, clause 88.
The committee then proceeded to the considerati Ai of the
additional clauses.

On the clause fining 4,0001. a year as the salary of the
judSir,
rF. KELLY paid that this judge would be precisely in
the MOO position as the vice-chaneellors and the e:irumon•
law puieno Judges. tinder such circumstances there was no
mason why the 831017 should not be the same. He propored
therefore that the blank in the bill should be filled up with
the word tiro instead of four. This would limit the salary at
5,0001.

_,---..
Mr. AYRTON objected to the proposal of the hon. mem-
ber. The government mud have considered the matter,
and upon that consideration come to the determination that
4,0001. was a fitting salary. For his own part, he concurred
to that view, and thought the amendment ought not to be
preened.
Zys ATTORNEY-GENERAL pointed out that there
w provision in the bill increasing the salary of the judge
In the event of certain other duties being undertaken by
him. In that event, the salary would be equal to the salary
repaired by the other judges. As the last apesker suggested,
the government had gravely considered the subject, and he
trusted, therefore, that the committee would peas the clause
am it stood.

The amendment was negatived., and the eleucr es origi-
nally trained (1. c., with the salary fixed at 4,0001.) wan
&V.ttl to.

A clause providing an additional Wary in rase of the judge
of the Court of Probate tilling the office of judge of the Adml-
nitp Court was agreed to.
pen the next clause, enabling the crown to grant a re-
tiring pension of 2,0001. in owe the salary of the judge "tome
at 4,000/.. and A pension of 3,5001. in case it stood rat 6,0001.,
Mr. MOWBRAY moved to reduce the latter pension Us
2,5001., considering that it wee disproportionate ce it stood.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL trusted that the com-
mittee would allow the clause to stand as it woe. The ad-
ditional pension was given only in the event of the Wage/ of
the judge being 6,0001. This amount was the amount which
a long Inures of usage had sanctioned in the ease of all the
other judges. When the committee considered the duties
which the judge of this court would have to fulfil, duties do.
mending groat learning., occupying considerable time, and re-
quiring most patient investigation, he thought they would
agree with him that the amount was not too largo. 'Ihe001:11.
mittee bad, in negativing an amendment to increamthe salary
from 4,0001., given the government credit for having cares
fully weighed this matter ; he hoped they would still extend
that credit to them.
Mr. MALINS quite concurred in what had fallen from
the Attorney-General; he considered, however, that the re-
tiring pension of 2,0001., which was to be the sum if the
salary remained at 4,0001., was too small.
Sir F. KELLY pointed: out that as the bill stood it
made no provision for the learned judge of the Prerogative
Court of Canterbury, supposing he should the office
of judge of the now court. In such an event, the learned
judge would find his office abolished and himself left without
one shilling of compensation. Ho trusted that the govern-
ment would consider this matter.
Mr. HUDSON thought that the retiring pension
3,5001. was not too large. The committee should ',member
that it was only ppaayyaabbllee after fifteen year; servioe, lie
hoped that the atttsBdoeet world be withdrawn.