The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-01-15 00:00:00

HACKNEY CARRIAGES AND LICENSING COMMITTEB

Mr. Woodruf moved that the proceedings of this com •
mittee be confirmed.
Mr. Alderman Bennett, in seconding the motion, said
the committee, having done a great deal to have the
whole department well regulated, had some right to
:complain of the public. The committee had passed bye
)aws cf a very stringent character, and had done all they
could, as a committtee, to see that they were carried
end worked properly. But there was one portion
resting pot so much with the committee, the owners or
the drivers, as with the public. The committee had
passed a law that every driver should hand a small
ticket, containing the number of the vehicle and the
name of the owner to every person hiring his vehicle.
He had to complain that the public did not enforce this
regulation. In many instances careful, old, and expe-
rienced drivers were insulted when they tendered these
tickets. These drivers cornplainei that parties some-
times flung these tickets back in their faces, and said—
" we want none of your tickets, drive us to such a place."
If' Each was the case, drivers, of course, were slow in
offering the tickets. As an instance of the importance of
Oemanaing such tickets, Mr. Bennett stated that he re-
Aently found in a cab a lady's reticule, containing a gold
uhain and several other valuable trinkets. The driver
forthflat& bad given the lady a ticket when
he drove lh.er from the London and North Western
station, so that id less than an hour she came back and
recovered her propef!y• HaO she not received a ticket,
she could not have fount:. the driver, and might have left
town, and never seen any advntisement announcing that
it had been found.
Mr. Picton remarked, that there had been, during the
last few months, a great deterioration in the condition
of the hackney coaches, cabs, and horses. He got into
one the other night at the tunnel, in which there were
no windows, and it frequently occurred that the doors
would not fasten. As to finding a bell to ring, according
to the bye laws, he should think such a thing had not
been known for months in Liverpool. He bad not
himself found, for months, a car having a bell which
would ring. The committee expected too much if they
thought the public were to summon every man who had
eardefective in condit ion, He understood that a number
of vehicles plied for hire, under the stage coach act,
which were not amenable to the committee. If this did
not account for it, he thought the employees of the
committee must be exceedingly remiss in their duty to
pass such a number of wretched vehicles as were seen on
the stands.
Mr. Alderman J H. Turner corroborated the opinion
of Mr Picton with regard to the deteriorated condition
of the hackney conveyances.
Mr. Alderman Dover thought it might be a question
whether the rate of fares allowed was sufficiently
remunerative.
Mr. Hodson said the fares were much higher here than
in London, and he thought them quite sufficient. (Hear,
hear.) The horses in Liverpool were not nearly so good
as they used to be.
Mr. Robertson Gladstone said it should be borne in
mind, that at present the price of horse flesh had risen
nearly 60 per cent. A really good omnibus horse was
now worth £4O instead of £25. Against that of course
must be set the fact that the prices of hay and straw
were very low. He thought the cars were generally
built much too heavily, and called attention to a new
class of two wheeled conveyances introduced, which
were built in Birmingham. The old system of boulder
pavement was enough to shake a coach to pieces in a
very short time, and some of that pavement unfor-
tunately still remained, He expressed surprise that the
owners of cars,did not evince more interest in the manner

in which the streets were paved, which concerned their
property so much. It was that kind of pavement which
induced builders to make the coaches of far heavier
material than would otherwise be necessary. He thought
the fares under ordinary circumstances sufficiently
remunerative, but then it must be remembered that the
owners had to bear the expence of a lamp, which was
very generally complained of by them, and which he
himself thought a very unnecessary requirement (Hear,
hear, and " No, no.") He generally derived m ore
advantage from trusting to his eyes, but still if the
community wished for the lamps, they ought to be

required.
Mr. Fernihough agreed with Mr. Gladstone's remarks,
except that regarding the lamps. He regretted very
much that Mr. Gladstone should have made that remark,
for it would evidently be an inducement to proprietors
of hackney conveyances to memoralise the council, and
raise a discussion upon the question which he thought
ought now be allowed to rest. Mr. Fernihough con
tended that the lamps were necessary as a protection
against robbery among other things, and especially to
ladies going home alone late at night.
Mr. Woodruff, in reeking, expressed his thanks to
Mr. Bennett for having drawn the attention of the public
to the necessity of demanding tickets. lie pointed out
the extreme difficulty which the committee experienced
in regulating a disorganised hotly of about 1,000 men.
He regretted to say that the public generally did not aid
them in enforcing these regulations, and still more that
there were members of the Town Council who
did not help to carry them out. These members
sanctioned the passing of 'laws there for the pub-
lic protection, and were themselves the first to
violate them outside, and to encourage others
to do so. Was that becoming of members of that coun-
cil ? He said that when the council laid down laws for
the government of those men and for the protection of
the public, they had a right to insist, individually as
well as collectively, that these laws were carried out, and
th it it was useless for the committee to pass laws unless
the public, and members of the council, in the first
instance, assisted them in their enforcement. ( Hear,
hear.) With regard to the fares, he stated that they are
higher in Liverpool than in any other town in the
kingdom, and that they are ample for all the public
require. As to the condition of the vehicles, the com-
mittee licensed none but such as were in a proper and
efficient sta•e. The cars were inspected continually by
their officers, and all which were unfit were rejected by
the committee. If any of the officers were proved to
have neglected their duty they would be instantly dis-
charged. There were, however, an immense number of
vehicles plying in Liverpool without any name or number
at all, setting the laws of the committee at defiance ; and
Mr. Mansfield and the magistrates stated that they could
not interfere, the parties having taken out licences under
the Stage Coach Act, not under the Town Council. If
members of the council and the public would employ
vehicles without names or numbers, which they would
have, if they were licensed by the committee; and, if
they would thus sanction the plying of vehicles which
bad not been licensed by the committee, then the fault
did not lie with the committee (hear, hear). The com-
mittee were prepared to do what they could to place
within the reach of the community a proper and sufficient
number of well regulated vehicles, with good and sober
drivers ; but if the public would not assist them in their
efforts, then the public were the sufferers.

, .
The proceedings were confirmed.
BATHS' COMMITTEE.

The proceedings of this committee contained the
resignation, by Mr. John Harrison, of his office as
superintendent of the Frederick street baths, and a
recommendation that advertisements be issued for a
successor.

Mr. Wagstaff moved that the proceedings be con.
firmed, which was carried.

6.18 COMMITTEE

Mr. Kitchen, in moving the confirmation of the pro-
ceedings, stated that the finance committee had passed a
resolution placing under the charge of the inspector of
metres the whole of the gas in the public establishments,
for which the corporation of Liverpool had to pay.
His first entrance upon this duty was at St. John's
Market, where he had already found that a very serious
waste of gas had been going on, and pointed out, of
course, to the superintendent of the market the remedy.
He had also to suggest the desirableness of having
the public lamps placed under the superin endence
of the same inspector. The inspector had already
visited with Mr. Newland one of the public lamps, that
placed at the top of Scotland road, and found that there
was a consumption going on of 543 feet per night, which
in the year would amount to something like £4o.' He
wou'd also suggest to the chairman of the watch com-
mittee, as a subject not unworthy the attention of the
committee, that if the lamps throughout the town were
altered 83 as to be lighted, like those in Church street,
by means of a long rod, it would he very desirable, and
it seemed to him very easy ; that the services of the
police should be made available for the purpose of light-
ing and extinguishing all the lamps. There were about
3,000 lamps in the borough, and there were usually
about 300 police on duty every night, so that there would
be only some 10 lamps to each. This step would save
about £4,000 a year to the town. lie threw out these
suggestions for the consideration of the watch committee.

Mr. Brancker promised that the subject should have
the consideration of that committee. With regard to
the large lamp on Scotland Road, he stated that it and
the other lamps of the same kind bad been so constructed
that after twelve o'clock the consumption was reduced
one half,by a process which the borough engineer intro-
duced. Therefore, if the measurement had been taken
before that hour, it would show an amount much larger
than the lamp annually consumed, the amount of which
was very little more than half what Mr. Kitchen had
stated. He thought it out of the question that the police
could be employed for the purpose of lighting the lamps.
Suppose there happened to be any disturbance, or even a
common case of "drunk and disorderly," and that a
policeman had to carry some one to the bridewell, what
would become of the lighting of the lamps in the
meanwhile ? (Hear, hear.) He was afraid, however
plausible the saving of expense might appear, it was a
suggestion which could not be carried out.

Mr. Hodson complained that the lamps were some-
times so dull as to give very little light to the surround-
ing neighbourhood, and recommended that the metre
inspector should be empowered to watch them.
Mr. Kitchen in replying, contended that no real
difficulty existed to carrying out his suggestion, with
regard to the lighting of the lamps by policemen.
The proceedings were confirmed.
BIRKENHEAD DOCK'S COMMITTEE.

The minutes of this committee contained nothing of
importance. Mr. Alderman Holme moved their con
firmation, which was carried without any discussion.

APPROACHES TO THE LANDING STAGE.

The following resolution was read in the proceedings
of the special committee, on the subject of the approaches
to the Landing Stage :—" Resolved, that it is desirable
that the approaches to the Landing Stage be improved,
and that Mr. Sohn Hartley he requested to prepare one
or more plans with a view to carrying out the object."
Mr. Bold moved the confirmation of the proceedings.
Mr. Charles Turner : It is usual to bring up the pro-
ceedings of a special committee before the committee
have made a report. (No, no.)
Mr. S. Holme: It is irregular.
The Mayor also stated that it was irregular.
Mr. Fernibough took occasion to draw attention to
the recent accident in the George's dock—the death of
Mr. King by drowning. He remarked that one of the
papers stated that one of the chains of the quay must
have been unhooked, and added that he had himself
sometimes seen boys unhook the chains for mere mischief.
He recommended that the chains should be so fastened,
by some mechanical contrivance, that they could not be
opened by every one, but that the policemen or dock
gatemen should have the means of opening them.
Mr. Turner said they must have the chains so fixed
that any one could open them, otherwise it would be
impossible to carry on the business of the dock. They
must only trust to the police, who walked about the dock
constantly to see that the chains were not left unhooked.
Mr. Hodson said there could be very little doubt that
the very painful circumstance, the loss. of Mr. King, was
in consequence of the neglect of the police. (Cries of oh,
eh.) It happened that the gentleman in question was
seen at a certain hour in the evening when it was very
thick, and when consequently there could be very Hale
doubt that the chair s were not open for any purpose
connected with shipping. If the police had done their
duty, and if the chains had been kept fast, as they ought
to have been, more especially upon a thick night, he
maintained that that painful circumstance would
never have occurred. (Oh, oh.) He said this only with
a desire that more attention should be paid, for this was
not the first case. They all recollected the lamented
death of Mr. Lowndes, of the County Court, which no
doubt occurred in the same manner. He was quite sure
it was the duty of the council, as a public body, to
enforce the necessity of having the chains around the
whole of the dock walls always kept fastened, except
when actually required to be open.
Mr. Parker strongly objected to Mr. Hodson making
use of such strong arguments against the police, founded
on mere supposition.
Mr. Braneker said, Mr. Hodson's charges against the
police should not he allowed to go forth to the public,
simply because that gentleman choose to make such
observations. The paragraph in the Mercury made a
mere conjecture that the unfortunate accident bad
occurred in consequence of the chains not being fastened.
There was no proof, no evidence vthatever, and,

therefore, there ought to be no charge made against the
police. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Hodson : I have certainly a right to suggest.
(Order, order.) No one shall stop my mouth, big or
little. (Order, order.)
Mr. Gladstone thought the security might be adopted
of having the chains made fast in such a way that only
the dock gatemen or policemen could unfasten them ;
and he did not think it would cause anything to interfere
with the trade of the port.
The conversation was then dropped, and the proceed-
ings of the committee were confirmed.