The Express.
London, England, 1861-07-05 00:00:00

(Stamped, ld. Additional.) [TWOPENCE

I whether the debates°, the Commons of Englund ought not
to be reported in an authenticated form. He was no doubt
sometimes obliged to interlard his observations with a little
Attic salt, because mia.dulterateil common sense eras not ap-
preciated unless mixed up with a little nonsense. (Laughter.)
He would read an anonymous letter which he had received
from Dublin on this question. He had been advised not to
read it, but he intended to do so. The letter commenced,
" My dear Seully.—Why do you make such an as of your-
self' (Great laughter.) The truth is, you are not quite
right in your head." (Conunued laughter.) This was the
consequeoce of the representations which had been made in
the pries of his opinions, and he hoped that before long
some hoe. member would take an opportunity of bringing
the subject more fully before the house.
Mr. BASS asked the hon. and learned gentleman whether
he considered that the speech he had just made was calcu-
lated to add to hie own repute or to the dignity and cha-
racter of the house? (Cheers.) Within the last week the
hon. and learned gentleman had been reported fifteen times,
and he bad actually spoken at lead twice as often. If
other bon. members were to take the same liberties with
the tune of the house, it would be impossible to get through
the business of the @elision. It was absolutely necessary to
curb the present license of too much speaking.
Mr. S. FITZGEItALD, referring to Lord J. Russell's ob-
servations respecting Spain and Morocco, 'said he hoped to
hear from some colleague of the noble lord, that be had ad-
dressed a vigorous and earnest remonstrance to the Moorish
government, against any permanent occupation of any part
of the Moorish territory. This country ought not to permit
the permanent occupation by Spain of an inch of that
temtory.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he did not think it would be be-
-1 coming in the British government to say that the Moorish
government having signed a treaty were not bound by the
obligations of that treaty. It was the duty ad Um British
government to endeavour to arrange terms between Spain
and Morocco, and not by dictation to bring on a renewal of
the war.

The Bruins then left the chair, and the house went into
committee of supply.

SUPPLY.

A debate of considersWelengib arose upon vote 17, of
160,0001. for harbours of refuge, with reference to the
works at Alderney. It was contended that Alderney was
not, and never could be made, a harbour of refuge ; on the
other hand, it was argued that, though not strictly a
harbour of refuge, it was of great value as an important
military and naval position, now nearly impregnable, for
watching in time of war, and of checking the naval opera-
tions
of an enemy. In the course of the debate Sir J.
Graham repeated the testimony of the Duke of Wellington
in favour of the works, to which, he said, the duke attached
primary importance. A motion by Mr. Baxter to omit
from the vote the sum of 9,0001. for works at Alderney was
negatived upon a division by 65 to ro.
Auother long and rather warm discussion grew out of •
motion by Mr. Gregory to exclude from vote 19 the sum of
2,3R21. for additional repairs and alterations of the Royal
Dublin Society's buildings, and fur the erection of • new
palm-house at Glasnevin-gardens, the motion being
grounded upon the refusal of the society to open the gar-
dens to the public on Sundays, and the discussion em-
bracing what is known u the Sunday question.
Mr. LOWE said the Committee of Science and Art bad
been addressed by the Lord-Lieutenant as to what should
be done is the matter, and they had without hesita-
tion expressed their opinion that the gardens should
be opened on the Sunday. That opinion was
communicated to the Lord-Lieutenant, and reasons for an
opposite view were drawn up by the society. The society
claimed the right to vete the opinion of the government—
they asserted the right to mauve public money, and at the
same time disputed the right of the government to interfere
at all in its application. A debate had taken place else-
where upon this subject, and very good reason bad been
assigned why the society should change their de-
cision, but he regretted to say that no impression
appeared to have been made upon them. The question
whether the gardens should be thrown open on Sunday
was one upon which bun. members might very fairly
differ, but he had uo doubt that the society had received
upwards of 400,0001. of the public money, and that they
were receiving money from two sources, amounting to
something like 8,000/. ; 6,0001. (roan his department and
2,0001. from other sources.
Mr. WHTTESIDE—But the 2,0001. is • casual vote.

Mr. LOWE—llut it is a canal vote that comes every
year. (Laughter and Cheers.) He thoughtthat in exchange
for this public money the public should have some amtrolin
the matter, and that thesomety should allow the gardens to
be made use of for the public benefit. (Hear, hear.) What-
ever, therefore, might be thought upon the question of the
opening of the gardens on Sunday, if public money was to
be granted the suggestions of the department which bad
the expenditure to propose should be listened to. The vote
asked fur that night was for hothouses and buildings, the
'entracte for which had been entered into upon the strength
of the vote, and be did not think it would be consistent
with the good faith of parliament if they refused the vote.
("Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear.") If the committee acceded
to this proposition, the decision might be taken upon the
large vote which would come before the committee after-
wards. (Hear, bear.)
Mr. VANCE, ou the grounds of the independence of the
society and it. situation, objected to the opening upon the
Sunday. The society consisted of 1,500 persona, including
some of the most ieflueutial person' in Dublin, and they had
decided upon this queatiou by a majority of 7to 1. He was
glad the government recommended that the vote should be
paasech because whatever decision might be come to upon
it he did not think it would have the effect of causing the
society to alter their decision with regard to the opening of
the gardeas on the Sunday.
Colonel DICKSON hoped the government would give the
bow wine assurance ae to the course tbey recant to ~.‘ursuo,
and upon that assurance being given Le trusted the hoc.
member for Galway would adopt the proposition of the hon.
member for Maidstone. He regretted that he felt obliged
to differ from hie friends on that side of the house on this
qutetion: .

Mr. CARDWELL expressed the greatest respect for the
Royal Dublin Society, but he bad no hesitation in saying
that the sum voted to the Royal Dublin Society should be
applied in obedience to the opinion and feeling of the house.
e did not think it wise and judicious in that society to say
that the Sunday question was involved in this matter. Hs
believed the lieu. member fur Galway acted wisely in bring-
ing forward this question on the first vote, because it would
afford the society an opportunity of re-considering the ques-
tion. The opinion of the goveruineut in conformity with
what he believed was the feeling of the house was, that
these particular gardens should be opened on the Suuday
under reasonable arrangements. (Hear.)
Mr. WHITESIDE said that every man of science in
Dublin who bad promoted the advancement of the people
was opposed to the opening of these gardens on the Sunday.
The members of the society would nut sacrifice their con-
victions to the decision of that house, and therefore they
might withdraw the grant at once. Thu &miens and
museum were opened on the week day. It was in their
power to break up the society by their vote to-night, but
they could not force thu conscience" of the 1.100 gentlemen
who orinstitideil the society, and they would render her
Majesty's government more unpopular than it was at pre-
sent.
(Oh, oh.) Yes, that was his argument. Would
the hon. member for Galway be able to reconstitute this
society if once broken up? He would not, and therefore he
asked the committee not to force the consciences of those
gentlemen who decided by a majority of 7 to 1 against
those gardens being opeued on the Sunday.
Mr. MONSELL said, after the distinct statement of the
Secretary for Ireland, he should recommend dais hon. friend
not to go to a division. The right hon. and learner! gentle-
man (Mr. Whitedde) said every peewee of intellect in Dub-
lin was opposed to these gardens being opened on the Sun-
day. What did he say to the five judges, and 50 lairristere,
and 900 proteesioual men who had signed& memorial that
the gardens should be open un the Sunday ? Ile was quite
sure that after what had occurred the society would gra-
ciously yield, and the Lou. member for Galway would
have the satiefection of knowing that the adieu's of Dub-
lin were not placed in a worse position in this respect than
those of London.
Mr. LEFItOY deeply regretted that the hon. member •
for Galway had approached the subject in the tone that he
bad. He though that the course he had pursued was most
ungracious. It was a great mistake to say that the closing
of these gardens on the Sunday precluded the artisans from
recreation on that day, seeing that these gardens covered
but • small space.
Mr. GREGORY denied that lie had spoken in the
smallest degree harshly of the Dublin Society. He admired
their usefulness at the same tin.o that he deplored their
exclusiveness. He believed them to be far more
prudent than the right hoc. gentleman, and it was because
he believed that that he ameiled to the request of the
Secretary for Ireland. He withdrew his amendment on the
distinct understanding that the Secretary for trebled would
not bring forward, the annual grant to the society unless
they would agree to the gardens being open to the public on
the Sunday.
The amendment then by leave withdrawn.
On the vote of mound. fur the Commissioners of Highland
Roads and Bridges.
Mr. WHITE Paid he hoped the committee would give
the coup de mace to • vote which had been continued
much too loos.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS opposed the vote, contending that i
the former grants had "one all that was requkite.
Mr. F. PEEL defended it, observing that the roads were
parliamentary and military ones, nod were not um-miry
for the purposes of the northern counties of Scotland. An
act of parliament provided for an annual vote of this
amount.
The committee divided :
For the vote 7l
Against it
35,0004 was afterwards voted ou account of rates for
government property.
The CHAIRMAN then reported programs.
EAST' INDIA (CIVIL SERVICE) BILL.
Ott the order of the day fur eenakkring this bill as
amended,

Sir C. WOOD said since the bill wu last before the
house he had considered certain amendments which were
then suggested, and he now proposed that the bill should
go through committee pro forma, with a view to its being
brought forward in an amended form on Monday next.
Mr. VANSITTART was glad that the right boo. baronet
bed acceded to the wishes of the representatives of the
Indian civil warms. (Hear. hear.)
After a few words from Mr. Armor, approving of the
forma.
oourse proposed, the bill panted through committee pro

INDUSTRIAL SC...IIOOLS BILL.
Oa es order of the day for exisideriug this bill u
amended,

Lord It. CECIL opposed the bill, on the ground that its
provisions were too severe. A child might be imprisoned
under it for eight years, merely because it had frequented
the company of reputed thieves. Such a system was
worthy of Paris or Berlin ; it was utterly unsuited to this
country. He moved that the bill go into committee that
day three months.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said the bill was a second edition of
one already on the statute book, and it involved no new
principle except that the allowance for children confined
was somewhat enlarged. It was founded on principles the
reverse of arbitrary and despotic.
Mr. PEASE considered the bill, however well intended,
too stringent.
Mr. WHALLEY concurred in this view.

The amendment was negatived without a division : after
which certain amendments were introduced, and the report
received.

APPROPRIATION OF SEATS (SUDBURY AND ST.
ALBANS) BILL.
be the order at the day for goirig into eonnniktiekon tbin
Mr. HADFIELD contended that Doncaster ought to be
substituted for Pontefract. The hon. member did not pro.
pose any amendment.
The bill passed through committee.