The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1856-05-15 00:00:00

but I say that to impute motives to the finance
when that committee has been doing the best fo

mon interest of all, is unwarran

atid st

tolerated

(Hear, hear.)

lould not be

he committee

I say that they have bet;n deeply reflected on, and that
language has been used towards them, which I. say is
ufiwertliy of these who have given utterance to it. If
they are not lit tb be tiusfbd, remote them, and I confess
that I. for one, shall be glad to betelieVed from the duties
of an office which subjects me to be "put to the torture and
pulled about " by gentlemen

1 now,

with reference to-an article which has appeared in the
NORTHERN DAILY TIMES, and which is evidently directed
a4ainst me. I may, however, go so far as to say that
the editor of that paper may be acquitted of
making this attack on me

from another bow. quote from the article, the
wing passage ;—" Now, it is well known that the.cor-

poratioArase paid as much as £s per square yard for
land, within one cartage length of the Princes dock, and
that they should now offer land, equally well situated, and
in perpetuity, for £2 lOs the square yard, does certainly
appear most unpardonable. Only a few months since,
one or the principal- movers in this affair, induced the
council to purchase, a la,-ge piece of land on the other side
of the river, required for a spoil bank, or space for the
deposit of earth, for £2 los per square yard. Now, if land
was worth 5Ds at that out of tile way spot, and for such a
purpose, surely the plot of ground in Great Howard-
Street—the centre of all the trade and traffic of Liverpool
—must be Worth something more. Taking into account
the relative advantages of the two sites, the only conclu-
sion to be arrived at is, that the price paid at Birken-
head was extravagantly high, and'a glaring waste of the
corporate funds, or that the ,ground in Great Howard-
street is to be disposed of for little more than a nominal
consideration. The worthy alderman who induced the
council to purchase the Birkenhead land, will probably
explain this palpable anomaly on Wednesday next."
Now, the explanation in answer to that, is a very
simple one. The statement has been made in sheer
ignorance, qr in downright malignity. (Hear.
hear.) What is the fact? The allusion is evidently to
the North Reserve ; and you, sir, know that I had no
more to do with the purchaae of it than any other mem.
ber of this council. It is said, however, that I induced
the council to sanction that purchase, and in the next
place the price is stated to have been £2 lOs the square
yard. I specially mention this point to show how the
public are fooled in these matters. The land comprises
290,400 square yards, in close proximity with the entrance
of our great basin, and, deducting the cost of building the
wall, all that was paid for it was £73,000; or in other
words, instead of £2 lOs the square yard being paid for
it, the price was simply five shillings and one farthing.
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) It is just of a piece with
Many of the charges that have been made in reference to
the question now before the council. (Elear, hear.)
Odium has been sought to be cast on Mr. James Holme.

Mr. James Holme : I beg of you not to introduce my
name at all into the matter.
Mr. Alderman 8. Holme : My brother has refused to
give me any answers to my questions in this matter, but
yet I must state what 1 have received from the surveyor,
for it is right that the public should know how this
matter arose. (Hear, hear.) A short time since Mr.
Wightman was directed to procure plans for a public
market at the north end of, the town. There was a piece
of land in the district named, containing some 3,000 square
yards, belonging to the Lancashire and Yorkshire Com-
pany, and used for a vegetable market. Mr.
Wightman thought the site the only one which
would suit, it having a moderate depth, and
a great frontage to Great Howard-street, and he
therefore asked Mr. James Holme whether the company
would sell the land. The reply was, no: He then said,
" had you not better buy the land from us in Great
Howard-street, occupied by the Borough Gaol ? " Mr.
James Holme answered that he would name the matter to
Mr. William Stewart, and when he did so, they agreed to
bring it before the board. About the'same period, I saw
Mr. Stewart on some private business; and not knowing
that any thing had at all passed in the matter, suggested
the advisability of this purchase to him, and he then
informed me, for the first time, that my brother:had men-
tioned it to him, and that they were going to bring it be-
fore their board. The board decided on opening a
communication with the corporation in reference to it,
and then Mr. James Holme came directly to the finance
committee, and openly said, you have a piece of land in
such a place, and we will e'er you so much for it."
(Wear, hear.) Now, where lay the impropriety in such
a course? Land has been often purchased for the car-
-poration by individual members, and even to-day, you
will be called on to sanction the purchases which have
been made, though the intervention of two members of
this council. (Hear, hear.) It cannot be a pure fountain
where polluted streams flow, and I, therefore, deprecate
the introduction of those imputations of motives, against
gentlemen who are rather deserving of our thanks and
consideration. Allusion has been made to Pickup's old
mill. I did, undoubtedly, give a valuation of
that land, and the thing came before a jury.
Surveyors were examined and various opinions,
as is usual among men, were given ; but it was a small
piece of land, and was altogether differently circumstanced
from the block of land now in question. Mr. Holme then
continued to say that when the gaol land was cut up
parties might give five guineas the square yard for
frontages with tweaty yards depth, but they would still
have 12,000 square yards of back land for which it would
be impossible to get the price spoken of there. With
regard to the land purchased by the London and North
Western Company, it was true that they paid .t 3 Si. the
square yard for it, but then it had two fronts in impor-
tant lines of streets. If they sold the land in fee at once
they would have to invest the money in some other pro-
perty like the Newsham.house estate, which would not be
for many years yet ready for the market. The proof was
that they had not had a single offer for the land.
Mr. W. Earle : And not likely. •
Mr. Holme continued to say that the corporation had
also possessed property in Gibraltar-street, and it was
sold-740 square yards—at £2 17s 6.1 the square yard.
They had another piece of land near the Northern Hospi-
tal. The highest price offered for it was 355, and it was
finally sold to the late Mr. Horsfall for £1 14s 6d. He
himself was a purchaser of land in Dundee-street, with
two tronts, and he considered that he bid an outside price
for it, when he gave 43 5s the square yard. He did
intend to depreciate the judgment of Mr. Cunningham.
But it should be remembered that that 'gentleman was
more celebrated and experienced as an architect than as
a valuer of land, With regard to the once contemplated
improvements in the locality, he apprehended they had per-
mitted the time to go bye for that, one great difficulty now
staring them in the face there, in the difference of 15 feet
between the level of the canal and the level of the railway.
In conclusion, Mr. Holme again expressed his conviction
in the wisdom of the recommendation, and declared that
he willingly left to time his justification in the matter.
Mr. W. Earle considered the committee incapable of a
job, but declared that he would comment on their pro-
ceedings with severity. He would poke Mr. Hornby on
this side and that side—he would poke him through the
body if he could. (Great laughter.) Why didn't they
purchase the Arcade and widen Bold-street.
Mr. Alderman Cooper : The public don't want.
Mr. W. Earle : They do want, sir ; and if everybody
was as bulky as you they would want it twice as much.
(Laughter.) Ido not think the committee knew the
kind of purchasers they had in tow here. (Laughter.)
They want the land. I do not say that we should squeeze
them, but we should make them pay the full value. (Hear,
hear.)
Mr. Hodson addressed the Council, and repeated the
arguments which he used when he moved the first amend-
ment against the recommendation. He denied that he had
ever imputed a motive or reflected upon Mr. James
Holme, but he still maintained that that gentleman could
not serve the two masters he was bound to. He gave an
instance when land in St. Paul's-square sold at five and
seven guineas the square yard, and maintained that the
improvements in Great Howard-street could still be
carried out. _ _

Mr. Alderman Parker supported the recommendation
of the finance committee. He expressed a disregard for
any comments which might be made upon his conduct in
that council out of doors, and declared that he took such
language as was used in that portion of the press, called
the NORTHERN TIMES, as a great compliment. (Laughter.)
To be attacked by that journal, showed that he was in
the right path. (Laughter.) He liked abuse from such
quarters, because he knew that if he got their praise, he
should begin to think he was going wrong. (Laughter.)
As to the ward meeting at Bainbury's, Mr. Bainbury was
in the chair, he proposed, he seconded, and two or three
of his friends who were drinking in the house, supported
the resolution. (Laughter.) That meeting was called an
expression of the opinion of St. Paul's ward. If gentlemen
out of doors wanted to express their opinion, let them call
ward meetings, and call their representatives in that
council. What was the meeting in the Clarendon Rooms
of a few influential gentlemen—did it speak the opinions
of the town ? Where were 4 the tens of thousands of
the burgesses who constituted the town ? He contended
that there had been nothing which could be termed an
expression of public opinion against the recommendation.
Mr. J. A. Tobin contended that 4i per cent. could not
be considered an insufficient rate of interest, even