The Express.
London, England, 1850-03-02 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EYI4INING, MARCH 2, ' 1850.

ellrourathisishoicattlawwashouelypenu.defd
eintoo Seto
ohnsabt
tend tZbt
essti
Ogee the amass asessaariso of life ; eisT,
meld peon, so industry had beat ees on tote
awl sew the ffrosed. o=7 of ?: "Vet "I* °I
smankisee gist geom./a Mbigloo
see sody ~ teem
•
sleets aegis et &thin ; their the pteemety MS *lay
nog is Mr. O'Camier, mad, as they believed, bed bees
waving w his, gel was his sheoletely is law; that be
had never lima enawymaa of the elletentals os the
petitimers. e=iild ; but had, ea the natirry,exeraind
the power el as • landlord, theugh, es the petitionen
believed, Signally ; that aadl the sped gibe semesittes of
'the Home of to inquire into the sib.
jest. they wereC.•=rlll:l64lltagebeese wee ; that
"Shoat 'Spathe the gement esearegy of the accounts of
Itsgen. Gley mod Fialaboa, the mean, &ben WU one item
they did set laissetomd, that was, the ant which was
stated by them Whale hem advisee* be sad. It was stated
is their asestmla that Kr. O'Caareva bed paid 1,4001. to the
alleesseas the estate, but boa imeskiee the Whimsies had
sot sontehe that
mode hoes hems ft hems they sushi
meretbee MX lad hem Mewed es that acccest. The
Megabit by saying the hags to take their ere
aisd le devin mem he relieving theta
heel semeausame winos, threagh ao Ink of
their own, Se as Keel misty. sae by a comegagem of
erieerwies to *hula behriaMea as to the true
=Fe the estate sod the accapien, with the view of
wham" up Ka midertgiiag.
Sir. B. MALL weal sow psi the veggies of which be
bed Ss the ben. member for Nottingham mdse.
The be globs(' to patweewhisker the boa. mad
lamed ragesiber blended to dam to the alleges* the tide
he IdseeK held is this propetty, or to take any steps to wind
lap theaseens, either by means of a hill or otherwise, gad
west wr the amount, he calcalatiod. would he retuned to
each of the 7,000 thenholtiers. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. F. O'CONNOR would Int answer the hon. baronet's
quid" sad thee proceed to reply to the statoment, cm-
coined is the ratio&
Mr. rose to order—be wished to know whether
that home woo prepared to eater tato say or swag
polities whisk might be presented nagestieg ell the Rpm
Whom el past man (Hear.) If the Ems et Gammeme
were to Mime the arbiters in tile Mee dispafed
secnenta &Slag eat of each speculations where was ,to be
the limit T (amen.)
The SPELLER said it was the meads when a petitin
zsiskidessed reflecting ea the chancier of any hoe,
aM hadalge but somber solar me to allow him to live
gay oeplemation or Smoke las debase he might think
emery. (Haag.) (Haag.) Bet with 'epodes the goedies. whisleked
ben put by the boa. member he liaryletnne, be bsd mask I
doubt wiwther they were sulegybe ender —( beer)--Mesieshl
se they related am to any smeowe before the house, end,
striae/ epeakesg, all seestleas_pat la that home sheabi refer
to some ammo bakes it. (Home.)
Mr B. HALL would the esalas himself to thie, whisk
he sabsitted would be strictly la wire It would be Neel-
leatid that there was s hill iatrebassd in 1848 in reference to
this land eampsay, whisk bill we. refereed to a select com-
mittee, bet was sot afterwards proceeded with. He wished
to know if It was the intaglio of the km member to resew
eay measure of that kind is the prograt woks, se to take
say steps to wind up this wham ? (Heim)
Kr. F. O'CONNOR after observiag that he ought to be
allowed to miSi, ening that the intends of 7,000 persons
were iasimil eta that he had smut large gases eat el hie
ow. psibst him Me asmaittes sat is 1848, La endeavour.
inw Mime the albums earagisrali registered sad
sad legalised,
that the matter had been for sem time before the
await el Olen% Beach; and was sot yet settled. It we. hie
bisallea, es he had stated before the committee, to hand
owe the property to trustees, sad he bad named the noble
lord the smother for Bath (Lord Deana) and the hon. mem-
ber he Reakdale (Kr. S. Crawford) ss those trashes., but
the hem. member for Rochdale told him that he bad ap-
plied to the Roble lord (Daman) oa the subject, who re-
fused ea bare anything to do with the matter. (Laughter.)
The pedlisa stated that great hopes were held out to the
alletems. sad that they ingested to do more than they
bad yet been able to do, and that the land and
house were not is so good a condition es promised.
All he could say was that for the two estates in question be
had paid from ell. to 501. an one ; that the coe' bad
been built of the best materials, the slates having nt him
81. • thousand ; that the timber was of the beet description ;
and that the land had been well manned and highly culti-
vated, sad that be had received no rest for two years sad a
half. He had takes two soble lords—Lord Talbot sad the
noble member for 10Jan—smother with the members for
Dumfries and Rochdale, down to the estates while the cam.
mitts' was Slimy, sad they all expressed their astonishment
at seeing them is such a high state of cultivation. With
regard to the allegation that he had dewed oily 8001.,
instead of 1,4001., at linigge.ead, as reported by the auditors,
it was quite impossible to ascertain by going from home to
house, what he had paid. His reply, however, to that
statemeat was, that every ono of the original &Settees at
Sniggs-ead got Isis aid money of 51, sad ease of themliad glace
sold their property at 1201. bonus on each allotment.
Hi would now road the report of the committee. (" Order,
order.")
TbiSPEAKER tomidered the bon. gentleman war going
boyead the Sadie of an exphaatioa of the allegations of the
petides, Ia reading the report.
lir. F. O'CONNOR named. Be bad been for eve years
oneutected with the hod compaay, be had spat 8,0001. of his
own mow la it, and bad devoted the whole of his time, day
sad night, in promoting its mama. The amounts had beea
-Milted to goverameat andltore, who bad reported is his
Seaga; and at the trial which took place the other day, no-
Slag had been proved ggaisst his character; sad sow he
Shod anybody to charge him with having been guilty,
the whole vans g kis life, of committing me dig-
Intsa, or ungentlemaaly sat. (Hoer, hoar.) It wig
ne=ifie wondered at that those who were desirous of keep-
ing dews and oppressing the working classes should look
era him with hatred, and that. as far as they could make
IA the land company should be the reviled of all revilers.
Grow charges were made against him is the isemmittee, and
every intakes.* who went into the seminar west Mars
with the stressed prejudices agaiedichitlisibeat, thank
God, they left the eaSmittee with these reamed.
Straw as it might seem, be could assure beam that it
wee nevertheless a het, that not a trades if the 130,0001.
ova came into his beds, it all passed through the &mean
into the beaker's pessimism, sad every mesh* tad oetey
book relating to it ens seemed before KW seemblitem
Sir B. HALL repeated his quids& abeam the boa.
member we. prepared himself to being is a bill as mew
mended by the committee, or to bring under as ermilera
anon of the home say massare for wiadlmg aptbe sebum. f
Kr. F. O'CONNOR—a/though the mesuillse meek
that be bad kept the asesuats, *el said
be had baap tbss
is away radios scabs & than ter MinasE. (" Wes ef eb"
a:dseinausetica.) He had-be Vying Mgm the esspray
eon y regblered, but the ham. basset asked him bow
he swat to pay bask these idleness who were met
located. (" Cries if ardor" omit aptest Asa.)
Sir B. HALLasid the qmotion he rind was whether Ste
Um member (Kr. O'Osester) istsaded tairedues a bill
Wthe poomat segos el parliament tar the parries at wind-
lag up the company, which the ammittes d the Hems of
Commas bad declared to be illegal, sad of whisk the lard
Chid Beam had mare sweetly egelleeei the tome 'Oaks.
Mem, bear.)
hr. F. O'CONNOR did intend to wind up the esesem,
sad if the noble lord (Lord J. Barill) would give bin am;
sauly day he Mr. O'Comor) timid take the den
alty at 'bring is a fedi as wind up the company, =
wash his hugs the tastier altogether. (Langton.)
Mr. HUME cemeldered that whoa the modest of a maw
bar MUM hews had Mem mandated and Wad. to matinee
le wettest* charges, as had been done that night by the
Ma baronet and la the petitions he bad pneantod—(ordin).
The subject then dropped, and the two petitions were
"demi to Us es the table.
KIDDERMINSTER ELECTION.
Mho SPEAKER Militated that the petitioners egged
adsat Se lategestion had emend into the required
o promeate their petition.
THE BORNEO PIRACY.
dd~wLord D. STUART gave mike that be should, as Mon.
abOVS far a return of the despatches rom Sir Female
dated the 18th September, 1519, and received cm thei
Kg January.
Mv. HUME eomplaing that the returns which had bees
=to him with respect to Sarawak, Welts, and the
Wash, had sot bees printed, and said that be
with, ea 'fogey, move that they be produced forthwith.
It maned to him that there ens a desire to withheld
them (Hoar, bear.)
NAVIGATION RETURNS.
Mr. NEWDEGATE referred to curtain diesemeasies in
the maim of the trade between the smash entered
lawards sad outwards the tonnage, sad asked foe saes..
Enka.
ddr, LABOUCHERE was not prepared to explain, bev-
ies seadved no notice ea the subject, but if the bon. pails.
mem would state to him privately the points to which his
silmliss had bees dimmest% the neemary inquiries should be
mak.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. .

Throat liiiiill2lll, la mower to a qrsestion, said he
would submit a bill to the Masa es Thursday ant for the
purpose of enteadiag the nisei establishments of Bealland.
Mr. P. EIROPI imbed whoa the Distress Advisees
(Indead) Llol Melba be 'paseasiederkh, end wished to hum
wltedMr fl mg* 1W immell) was aware that great
desteastiest of lib isms Miring ghee in the wastaa districts
of Weed is easesvienie of the total ioadsquasy of the re-
lief raided seder the peer kw. and whether le lad est
reestent a latte Elie reardiess of the Boarit sake,
deemiblag the destitute coadition of the people
them t
Lord J. RUSSELL add the business for Walley would
be the committee of supply on the aavy Oimates, provided
the First Lord of the Admiralty was war eamigh to attend,
sad afterwards the Mercantile Marine and the Merchant
Seamen' Pond Bills. The bill in reference to the advances
to the distressed anions in Ireland would not be proceeded
with until the Chancellor of the Ezehequer had brought
heward his Madam
In same to a question from Mr. Hums,
Lard J. RUSSELL said that be proposed to go on with
the Australian Colonies MU on Friday eight.
Mr. COBDEN was anxious to know for certain whether
the Navy :Lamar" wheats hod beers tiled for that monies
(Friday). would mese on on Monday ?
Leal J. BUBBKIL said that his right hon. Mend the
Ant Lard of the Adebeity was absent from the house
=Warm end he was not able to state whether be
punt ea MatAsy night.

PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS.(IRSKILND) BILL:
The boosoweat tato sonnaltete on this MIL . Enatra.
iaketbiseillueethidr.ons Lain PeoP4'leta•
Mr B. A. HAMILTON as moved sa amendeseat the in-
Waal a the isibeeriag words Is tinselly's: " addable
those qualified bY law to meats end vote at say election
a a knight of thin 'hire in Inland to virtue et say Tanan-
a= not requiring campaign."
Mr. BRIGHT said he Arad like la asserkdo- Ike views
of the governseat apes
So elanee before my sides altera-
tion' it was mall.
Mr. ILLTCHILL Amend that la potato( lost the bill
did not afoot Ske_frashies wllek the hall te
stSbeffor the
University ellaffina (Kr. lissaltaa) d gond by
this proviso There was, therefore, no ekliestioa to add the
prorW, if the hens wished to guard Mast ell esblgulty.
Mr. ROEBUCK asked what was the question before the
how?
Mr. F. MACKENZIE sail the asendanat of the hon.
P
for the Univenity of Dahlia was cashed in the
plainest toms, easy of comprehension.
Mr. ROEBUCK said • do ammidessais to the bill
steed ea the paper, and that it wee amessey to oadentaad
each dirdnaly, according se it was proposed.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE stated Maths amendment fight
be adopted, insmuch es the bill did not propose to sleet
any franchise la Ireland, except die franchise requiring
occupation.
Sir F. THESIOER said the bill penned to sweep
away all the sliding franchises In Ireland, for the
purpose of neonstrueting a representative system in
that country. The parties already registers:l, multi
have a prim fatit right to be registered under it,
not according to the qualification they now pos-
its& bet wording to no qualificatioa to be estab-
lished by the bill ; and, therefore, it as peered to him that
at the mast of the consideration of the subject, it was
important for the committee to decide whether they would
adopt the view put forward by the government, namely,
that the Wang freachises were only to remain is flu as
they tionstitatied a prim /ken right to register Rader the
bill, or whether they woad adept the words now
by theism. seember In the University of Dublin, 4Milrett
he proposed to creaks, all existing rights, sad sought to
supply a deflateasy which had arisen la the som-
ber of MOMOIIII is Ireland by mantilla:3.a east-
log institution certain new rights to be este wader
the bill. It woo quite obvious Sat if any looked thekill
ea saw prorated, it appeared to be the Wean= Mite p-
veresest entirely to clear the
.ground fah the purpose of
resessinetiag • sew feesohise ; sad while le adman' theitg
fromattSed slate of the repreastatisa la Inland, ft
was sessmegy that dim should bo
kneeholes the of meeting addido vetoes,
yet the geselies fier committee to determine would be,
what meths best mode ia whisk that end end purpose was
to be elkshoil Now, the bill, es framed, almost annihilated
the digthesties whisk beet the earliest period, had prevailed
ia Ireland with meg to the bounty end borough qualifies-
dn. Having edged into as biological detail of whet had
nteotrseottase lespealies tremble* bills for Ireland, the ho-
sanna, wed es to say that he came forward
foe the pupas of eamairdage the view of that how. member,
and of hulas the -Mee rammed; and he was pun-
milady saziess that, ups a measure of so much
hapormass as the priced, every step should be
module' with the slum unties and deliberation.
(Rear.) The eyes* of the sohle lord (Lord J. Russell)
last night seemed to intimate straggly that it was not deg.
rable to intrados' any legislative measure which might
overate as a substitute for the Reform Bill; but that, if they
were to legislate on the subject, it should be as supplemen-
tary to that bill. The question for decision wag—whether
the house would now proceed to legislate by clearing away
the ground and reconstructing something which would be a
substitute for the Reform Bill, r whether they would graft
on existing institutions than measures which the exigencies
of the session particularly required. The mess bill in-
troduced a ass of constituents which it would be very dan-
gerous Indeed to entrust with the fralchiee. The hen. mem-
ber for the University of Dahlia was proposing to con-
tinue the existing franthue ; and, if the amendment
were adopted, then the hose wOuld have to consider Mw'
the adlaitad deficiency of the existing constituency was M
be supplied. Were they to proceed in the autism miner
suggested yesterday ? or were they to sweep away every-
thing, and build anew according to a new system? The
government proposed to include in the registration all who
were rated to the extent of 81. a year. What, than, was the
extent of the new Minty constituency yid* would be
raised under the present bill ? AU were speed that sew
change in the constituency of Ireland was Mama wow
eery, and his anxious desire was, to Wise up Mil a free and
independent constituency in that country 1111.Wite• all hands
highly desirable.
Sir G. GREY quits speed with the his. mil Mimosa
gentlemen at the onclusion of his speech, that if Kim gem
me opposition to en seundesat it had Setter be burled.
Tney had had a ranging from padsdag=fi which
might have been delivered at the snood a eh* bill,
or at the third, bat which had nothing le win o th the
question now before the committee. The sawkweett pro-
posed to leeks clear that which was faskiellia. He was
not penned to admit that it waslskigmen, but they
wen quits ready to admit the weeds proposal la the emend-
mut, cad, they being agreed to, he hoped they would be
Inserted.
TM words as proposed were them speed Mad itiOrbli
in the dame.
Mr. HENLEY then moved that is dams 1 the word
" occupy" be struck out, and that the following words be
substituted "shall have occupied as "meat or owner fee a
period of at least two years before the let of July in sash
yes." and silo to add the word,. " sad shall have besarated
for all rates made during that period."
The ATTORNEY-OBNERAL said it me well to mdss
stead what the effect of the assondiant would be. By the
bill every occupier of land, rated to the relief of the poor,
who had been rated to the lest rate, end who had paid
the last rate before a 'snails period wee entitled to vote.
Adding the wards" as taunt or owner " would have a Goa-
eiderable effect, sad it would create great confueles sad
uncertainty in the reeking banisters' courts. The
great object of this bill was, amain other things, to provost •
eaglet, of dubious.
Bit F. THESIOER thought the em mitten was mice
indebted to his boa. and learned friend for the explanation,
because now it wee evident that the object of the government
was that persons who won neither tenants nor owners, bat
were merely oecupiese, shesid be entitled to vote. (The
Attornoyaearral—"No.") The hon. and loused geada•
ma said he did NA ay that, but did he mesa it, sad if he did
not mesa it, thea let his insert these words. Uadse the
whisk larked under the espreselos " esespier,"
freyb4V ream to distrust the intentions of goveramast.
After a few words in esplualioa from the Amain-
Kr. LAW mid he dna& there should be as lableke
or ambigty In the bill; he thought the weeds "e Isaaat
or moor shogeld le fatrotemi, sad he shalt astport
his Ma. Mead, if be look the Besse of the bolus oa the
subject
Mr. BILIGET gold it bed appeared to evidence burps a
tary comaittes, that certain landed gainsims la
rirelliandau.aos some missions had mewed as less them IMO 1
notices to quit ea their tenants, sad that ea curtain mastal
it was the custom of the agent to serve a masa MC
on every testae envy six maths If that wire
It me one whisk was much to be deplored. In this meanie
they must not allow the introduction of weeds that mid
can" my dietitto la parliamentery •
quibble in Irish caste by which the asseihe b Ire
might be done away with.
Mr. SHELL thought he weld menthe as illeitsatiea of
how the proposed eassertmest would allial the beaohise.
He was mambo, fee the county of Loath, end is that county
there were saunter of men win monad had es • mesa-
Ina, they paid so rest, sad they MI Men ds pessemion
above 20 years. Now, lithe wok "as tussle err mous "
were inserted in the bill, them aoa would be exanded, for
they could not be said to be ether.
Mr. HENLEY denial that the lattodaetioa of those
words would have the effect of dwindling dowa the sow
oilman. There wen similar words in the English Reform
Bill, red there had bead judicial decisions given Olt them
over mad over again, is that he believed no dispute could
arise.
Mr. HATCHILLL said he would show what had rendered
this measure indispensable. Dade, the Reform Dill the
fressigis• was 10i, wailer abeester 20 yeses, sad thereilre the
fresehiss dermisiles tome. TM tan was, Keith, MA-
Ind sellasstte gad Isom, add the Masan" had almost as-
piled. The Miestelthepressethillwaste remodythat ming
ant Maniere it me peepased le give the franchise
11-7,--wr ~,LbtuthebsZa:asiesnmeate twelve month
tenant
mood with • anise Ot quit maid Wilk ea ourcwidag the
fressides whoa he woks, nape ea assopier. Fee nun*.
if he were sued with a seise es the let November, le
quit m the Ist May, bat still matimed to oseapy, he maid
Mee Be right legeheime the revising banister esdresisteria
the gossiag ammo. That might occur in ems Malssem
but ese what might happen on the other had if this weeds
were added. A landlord who had twisty or thirty tenants
o• kb seats, ossapping from year to per, might as the Ist
of November give *am notice to quit, ea/ he dieframideed
the whole of them en tM lit of Key /Mewing.
Mr. GROGAN sell, If Mau ecatiased to soapy enter
the expiration of his subs he violated the law, sad**
intention of the learned gentleman was that sank renal,
he continued in posisseioa, should retain his vote.
Mr. SADLEIR would woes the amendment as °peals(
a wide field for Hassan sad fraud.
Mr. ROEBUCK woad ask a simple question : what
bars would be doss if a wrongful holder did vote. (Hear,
hear.) The necessity of extending the franchisews gene-
rally asiitted ; and, as a statesmen, he wanted to know
what mischief would result from such peillool Toting as this
clause described. He was confident they would do no harm
by admitting this elms of votes.
In answer to Mr. J. A. HAMILTON,
The ATTORNRY-GENERAL mid the dams would in-
clude all booed Ado occupiers, whatever their legal rights.
(Hear, hoar.)
Sir F. THESIGER said the boa. and hernia gentleman
was now introducing another description of qualification—
bon • fide occupatiote. (" No, no.")
Sir D. NORREYS said there wen numerous cases where
Ineottlerd:ight°Ctq.tsollitw retain
r e 1
LthanTeOvireaN°6 EP:Vier three theAtttelusante:Genhadersal
feared the amendment would lead to litigation, he had
better make the clause more clear, by rayingoccupierde
feu*, whether do jure or not. (Laughter, and cries of
Divide.")

I WARWICK said the Debts led emitted to observe
OM the gamy tams have been rated, end met have bees in'
dedsliatiss • while year. (Rear, hoer.)
•M. W. BROWN said they on to leek simply et the
linespaties, mill not at the dispntse between landlord" end
tenant.
Mr. HILDYARD said if the words " tenant end owner"
were omitted in the English Reform Bill, the oiliest would
be, in such • borough as Harwich, to throw the eleotios into
haods of government officers, who ommpird neither an
tenantstnor owners. The same woald be the effect of this
clause if swered to as it roes.
Mr. HENLEY swished to confine his amendment to the
bisect/ea of the weeds " she shall weepy es owner or
tenant."
The emantittee then divided—
For the amendment

Ads k 166-64

Mr. HENLEY moved another assealimeat on the eame
elates, the ea of which was that the occupier should
have mid all rates for the period of one year. This, he
ved, was the intention of the government is framing
the dam, bat it was not clearly avowed. If the noble
lord thought that principle just, he (Mr. Henley) would be
p lad to leave the matter in his hands. Otherwise he should
press his amendment.
The ATTOENBY-GENERAL wild not wee to the
proposition. The insertion of these words would make the
clause utter nonsense. It did not appear whether the
year wee to be calculated tram the date of raistration,
or the time of voting. The object of the amendment 'p-
remed to be to require that an occapler should be rated to
the amount of 81. during the whole year; but such aas not
the principle of this clause. (lieu, hear.) Tin principle
of the clause was that the lest rate made within the given
time was the tat of value. (Hear, hear.) If a man who
catered on land which wee worth Only 61. a year so raised
its value by • proper expenditure of mossy and labour se
to nuke it worth 201., surely it would sot be contended that
that man had no right to a vote ? (Hear, hear.)
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON mid that the last rating was the
test of value, but what his hon. friend proposed WM that
not dialog the year should be required also as the test
of osenpatioe. (Hear, hear.)
• Sir D. NORREYS said that the coosequenee of requiring
I a man to be rated for as entire year, would in some
ewes nada • person incapable of impala the franchise,
although he might have been in actual compation for 16
swaths.
Mr. BRIGHT said that he had opportunities ideating the
real difficulties whish had arbon, aad the greet injustice
which had been created in consequence of requiring a person
to be rated for every separate rating, and that was with
him • stronger reason than any which had yet been given
be desiring to see the clause remain es it was.
Mr. HENLEY said it was now clear that the object of
geurnment was to enable a man to be registered, who,
although he might occupy a tenement worth only 10e. a
year, might be rated by the guardians at 81., • few days,
before the day of registration. He would, therefore, pro-
ppoosst
to substitute for the words "last rating for the time
beano" the words " and shall be rated during the occupation
hereinafter required to all rata made."
The amendment having been pat,
Lord J. RUSSELL begged to sell the attention of the
committee la the restrictions contained in this clause. Ia
the Arm place they had the occupier, and they said that he
was not to have a vote merely because he was an occupier,
but they required, in addition, that he should be
rated in the last rate to the support of the poor
at the value of 81. In • subsequent part of the
clams they required him to oecupy for a year before be
could claim tea registered, and likewise that he must have
paid by the let of July, any rate that might have been doe
by him for such occupation up to a dey in the Jancary pre-
ceding. Here were three considerable restrictions; and, as
the can put by the hon. member for Oxford was barely •
Ma:libut certainly not a probable, oust or one that was
aiygequently to occur, h• was not disposed to secede
we the amendment, and would adhere to the clause as it
laud. (Hear, hear.)
After • few observations from Mr. Hiles, Mr. Law, Mr.
Cleassate. and Mr. Grogan,
Sir F. THESIGER said that he did not think his hoe.
friend the member for Oxford would gain his object by the
words he proposed. He would, therefore, recommend his
bee. friend to withdraw his amendment.
ID. HENLEY assented, and the amendment was with-
drawn.
Oa the proposition that • rating at 81. should constitute
qualification for the franchise,
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON proposed, as an amendment, that
grating at 151 should be substituted for 81. In making
this proposition he repudiated the imputation that
he was actuated by an undue desire to cripple
or diminish the franchise In Ireland. (Rear, hear.)
He subscribed to the doctrine of the noble lord (Russell)
that every person in the country was entitled to the best
system of government which parliament could devise, and
Ha to the doctrine of Mr. Fox, who said that the best basis
of a representative system; was that which included the
largest number of independent voters and excluded the
argon number of those who were dependent. The question
then was, what system of representation would afford the
best government as Ireland. He would not Wait that W-
eans* the number of voters was large in England as com-
pared with Ireland, that they should on that ground increase
the electors in the latter country. The amount which was
to confer the franchise had been settled at the time
of the Reform Bill, aft: r anxious and elaborate deliberation,
both for boroughs and counties. and he did sot think it
maid be wise to disturb that amngement now. (Hear,
bear.) Oae of his main objections to the present proposition
was that it would confound the distinction between the
borough frasehise and the county franchise, which was based
on property as distinguished from occupation. (Hear, hear.)
The amendment having been pat,
Mr. GRATTAN thought of proposing 51., but some Em-
ilia members having told him that if he proposed W., he
would have • chance of carrying his proposition, but that if
be proposed 51. he would not succeed, he yielded I. their
saggestioe. He would not, however, propose any amend-
meat, and he suggested to his hon. friend to withdraw his.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but,
Mr. REYNOLDS claimed permission to offer a few °beer-
ultimo. He could not avoid expressing his surprise at the
smondssat proposed by his hon. friend the member for the
Unieuellipof Dublin, because be believed that the N. (ran. I
dihe einii have suited his side of the house extremely med.',
411ibeed to mislead or duel,' that house or the
gabs thought the effect of the ha. and I
}BMWs observations would be to produce
misserden. (Hear, hear.) He told the house that
pf
_the present bill was to sweep away
annetise and he (Mr. Reynolds) presumed the
mosibei meant to my la Ireland. What
be my.. Illy demanded from that house la the name of
wirsiartia was • liberal, free, Ina honest Puha.
NOWT Mears Bill foe Ireland. (Rear, hoar.) lie
tepid tionlie the house by reading afew papers
sertißan returns made to that house, and then
l essomietee if it wag Mir sr rumens that gentle.
WS IS ale opposite aids disetiMake amendment
et the her. samba far the 13 of Dublin. The
mar was &Cabana, ehowbgehe of the several
straps la Ireland, and number of eltotere appearing on the
roll in 1843, by which it appeared that the
Mid of the n Gonads@ in Ireland amounted to
7,4311 sad the salable of voters 83,842. The popuic
Hos oldie masnalsil to 739,302, and the number
of sista= 3111,1 though In reality not half that number
tens available. ow, mina these Agana showed that some
71,1100 portiomentary vases applaud on the roll for Irish
esemtlie and boroughs, were be le &dust the real bona fid*
Mesh" ke w certaia they would not mold 30,000; and
tees that systemas
to be malatabied ? (Hear, bear.) Whilst
Wok with a papulatioa stover eight mUlione, returned
to Oat hew 105 members Rem her parliamentary role of not
man dima 30,000, the Seel& and Emilia boroughs, num.
Wing • mulattos of arm Wafts, had 417,000 voters,
and mewled 353 atembem (Hear, bast.) Now, he widted
to bow Uhy_ the bus. member for the university did not
eoltead boldly Muth, dila of Inlaid to possess or large a
franekhe mod es saw member, as Ragas& I (Hear, hear.)
The ogre sight be hosed the Nestor of the retina=
(Mr. Mune) brunt that ant of • population ot 16
they had °sly a million of voters. Why Inland, with 8 mii-
liege—half the population of England and Wales—had
ealy 30,000 voters—(tter, beer)--end whilst Unload and
Weiss retuned SOO members, the people of Irelaai adorned
only 105. (Hut, hear.) He bad bees asked by several why
Mumbled himself about the hamides billow Englishmen
world great nothing; sad why be would not absent him-
self, es elkw leidi amenbeee did? Unfortunately, it was
tee IMAM bleit mien'— did absent themselves ; bat he
denied die aeseedes that it wee useless to expect anything
freskinglabsaws. The hon. gentleman then read a list of
six laglidi and six Irish boroughs, each returning two
members to parliasene, with population and number of
electors in era

411 y
24Dereasta. Pop7;11-47.
40.7 nectars. Members.
limisbereugh
lbstlerd
nand*
livelborough
Biehmed 4,300 263

1,473 12

80,720 8,244 2
231,7111 120 49 2
1,i22 2
AM 1,246 $
Woodard .....
Is

Cork
Debits

=k

492,872 17,135 12
U. then continued : that list showed that the aggregate
population of six Irish parliamentary boroughs sending 12
members was 492,872, the total number of electors beiag
0.17 27,335, while the aggesgate population of the six
English boroughs sending the same number of members to
parliament was 26,383, and the manner of electors wee
1,473. The committee had now to decide whether the
franchise should be 81. or 161. lie should record his vote
against the 151. franchise, but he begged to give notice that
If that motion were carried he should move an amendment
to leave out the words 161., and say the minimum rating
should be 41.

After a few words from 10. STAFFORD.
Lord I. RUSSELL said that he would offer only a few
observation on the subject of the hon. gentleman's proposal
before the committee divided. lie did not think that the
hon. radioman had really laid himself open to the state-
ment made by the hen. amber for the University of
Dublin, that he wished to retain the present system of the
hanchive in Ireland ; on the contrary, the hon. gentleman
was willing to consider the question, and that he did not
tontine himself to the question of tenure. The case really