The Express.
London, England, 1850-02-05 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 5, 1850.

dangers, their statement was unpin', and danger seemed
at an end ; bat the sehoremeas paragraph seemed to be *-
trammel wittiest geherann on hagieal eciesniumes. It
infeseed es " that her Minty having hem appealed to on
the aglasion by the Sit.., mead her streets with them of
the gallinat of !Wee, to which • MA* oppeo4 hod
ham In magi to meld, by the = et of
V
lie AbeeiL,..in Orman sta mod
'WM el Illift Minims le a meow esesistent
mgthwt:ietisi.ethg . se the Porte ;"
het if en bed lingoes' the Turkish and
ffilmerist remove dangers. The noble
Med es** hereilltwas *stem mediation of England
wee asked the, hi ender le awes that which had already bean
The =r may be could account fur this
ite by that in the hurry of printiog the
wpm
train
lobs mightvejbass men& Why England
rianlidscr France shall interfere, when there wu nothing to ic-
eman,* abed, Mead his oomprehensioe. and called for ex-
planatioulled Me fiegretary of State. There was another
mist ems whisk*, Noble lord debt floc it convenient to
give sxplesatise. The 131matellor of tee Buhrquar had
esegratidated the blame eet the revival of oommeroe, which
was occasioned by the termination of the blockade in the
north cf Europe. It was two or three years sines he
had called the attention of the house to the
circumstance, anticipating that the blockade which had
arisen would place. 'rho noble lord on that ocessiss,
although he recognised the importune of the circatostame,
gave the holes those sanguine and satidaetory assurances I.
which he dealt so liberally, that no inconvenience did otmer
to the commercial interests of the country. Nevertheless,
the blockade did occur in the Baltic, and was eatrimely
vexations to the commerce of this country. lie should like
to know from the noble lord whether the Danish question
had yet been settled ?
Mr. ROEBUCK, said that the question of Greece was
tandentood to be twofold. There were certain long standing
amounts made by parsons in the character of British subjects
les as British subjects directly, which were not satisflei by
the Grecian government ; but there was also another data,
of a more imp octant character, T.l. with respect to erns*
islands to which the government of Enema laid
clem, and which had not been sitded by the govern.
ment of Genes. The question that really now became ene of
national importance was this—that the governments of
France and linage had guaranteed the integrity of Grease,
and, therefore, if we laid el tin to any portion of Green, it
was a matter in which Frazee and Russia were mourned.
Every step that was token therefore wu calling in the Inter.
vention—and perhaps hostile in t ration—of the govern.
meats of Francs and Ruda. Was there any understanding
with these two governments, and were we ready to ri Mt
the governments of Francs and Russia if they were to i•iter-
:ere ? He hoped the noble lord might he enabled to iisttety
the pliable mind upon that most delicate question. With re-
spect to Span, be hoped the noble lord would be rootlet
to say there was not the slightest chance of
any arrangement with Spain.
Mr. C. ANSTEY congratulated the noble lord on the
noble position which he had found it hie ditty to occupy in
the solution of these differences, and diraaed the attention
of the noble lord to the setdement of affairs in the pried-
p ditties of Moldavia and Wallachia. lie inquired what se•
unities were taken for the execution of the treaty between
Rods and Turkey as to those provinces ?
Lad PALMERSTON, in reply to the questions put by
hon. gentlemen opposite, would advert at first to the ques-
tion of Greece. The grievances for which redress was antra
were these : In the first place, Mr. Findlay, who had been
long established in Greece, bad his property forcibly taken
from him, for the purpose of forming part of the
king's guder.s. Mr. Findlay had codes ,oured to ob-
tain payment of the land so taken in vain. That was
one of the wrongs for which redress had been
demanded. The other case was that of Mr. Pacifiao,
whose hose, was violently broken into, in mi.t day,
in the city of Athens, by a mob, of which part were soldiers
in the service of the king; and the eon of the minister lc,.
the leader ant encourager of the mob. Repeated demand,
had been made for redress of grievances of etritish subjects,
hut these demands had not been made with success. There
were linen subjects who were the victims of plunder or
corporal ill usage. The other question about the islands
stood in this way : by the treaty between Russia and the
Porte signed in MOO certain islands were to form part of the
lonian heads. In pursuance of that treaty, two islands
were, by the names os &piers& and Cabrera, aggregated to
two of the larger islands, and thus had ever been
considered as blousing to that part of Greece.
When the treaty of 1832 was signed, giving a constitution to
Greece, the territory was 'peat, il as consisting of the con-
tinent and certain Wands, amongst which Cabrera and Si.
pierce were not included. There could not, therefore, be a
doubt bat that they belonged to the lonian Islands ever
since the treaty of 1800, confirms i by the treaty of 1815, t. ad
astictl the constitution of those islands. As to the state of
our relations with Spain, which one hon. member wished to
ace renewed, while another thought that they
should remain suspended, he was not able to state
that diplomatic relations had been renewed. Sere-
na committal :otiose, not official, had taken place, but
he would not commit himself by any anticipations, but be
contest with stating the position of affairs at present, with-
out bol3ing out any prospects for the future. Up to the pre.
sent moment no arrangement had been effected, by means of
which the diplomatic relation. between the two countries
could be re-opened. With regard to our relations with
Austria, our diplomatic relations with that country were
such as were very well known to that house. The Austrian
government had not at the present moment a minister
in London, that minister having, for private and per-
sonal reasons, retired from his diplomatic appointment,
but as an indication that the feelings of her Majesty's go-
vernment were of the most fiend* nature, the Englith
ambassador hal been continued at Vienna, although, for the
moment, there was no officer of corresponding rank r, pre-
senting Austria in London. Of cuing, if the Austrian
government should permanently discontinue their ambas-
sador, it could not be expected that her Majesty's govern-
ment would accredit an officer at Vi. nos superior ia rank
to the representative of Austria in London. It wax known
that differences of opinion had existed for the last two
BLOCKADE OP ORE BCE years between the government of Austria and that of this
Mr. M. GIBSON observed that considerable uneasiness country on questions of great interest both to Austria
had *encased &moors: the persons engaged in the Grecian and to Europe, but such differences must sometimes be ex-
tract-, in consilience of reports which had appeared in the petted, when governments take (Afferent views of the
newspapers, as to the peados of Admiral Si, William rams subject. With respect to I)enmatk, he did not
Parker o: the goast of Greece. He wished to uk the noble recollect that he had ever expressed a hope that the &hi. v-
lord if he could give the house any information up in the wig Holstein question would be settled within a week. lie
subject. might have mentioned that a certain armistice would pro-
Lori PALMERSTON said that certain claims bed bably be concluded within that time, but certainly he cool I
not so far have shut his eyes to the embarraenents of the
been ands foe certain wrongs sustained by British lonian
satisfaction question, as to expect that al its points would have been
subjects in Greece. Every effort to Mein . arranged within a week or ten days. Tice house
Invite been ineffectual. ceders ware given to Sir Wil
would remember that, in the course of last summer,
Ham Parker that he should ero to Athos., and place
• preliminary treaty wee signed, and the British government
himielt in commun,cation with Sir Thomas Wyse, and sup-
did everything possible to have it finally arranged and rad-
port the repetition of these demands. By the last accounts
of the nerotiations between the Greek minister and Sir fled. He could not pretend to say that up to the pres-
ent time much progress had been made towards the final
Thomas Wyse, the re•ult was not satisfactory, and Sir T.
Wyse had gone on li iirl Sir W. Parker's dig ship; and settlement of the question. It was well known that
there the account left off. (A laugh.) Hs should nave no for a considerable time the central power of Ger.
objection to I.y the papers connected with the transaction teeny had been in a state of abeyance, and had only n-
ee the table. cently b-en re-constructed. Prussia had been the primary
AUDIT OF RAILWAY ACCOUNTS. negotiator, not as Prussia, but as the repro entative of the
German power, and it was necessary that her
In SWlllf to a question by Mr. SLNDFORD, (Prussia's) powers should be renewed by the newly-
lir. LABOUCHERE said that the house would recollect constructed authorities at Frankfort. That had been doss,
that last went* it wet intimated hi/ the leading members and negotiations had been resumed at Berlin between the
connected with the railway interest at they would consider Danish and German plenipotentiaries under the auspices of
during the recess the question of railway audit. He has Lord Westmoreland, as representing the mediating power.
stated that it would be more convenient to government that He hoped, judging front the tone of the parties concerned,
an efficient system seould emanate from the body ; bat, that they were entering into these negotiations with a en-
tailing any scheme brought formai by the railway directors, um deem to bring them to a final and friendly settlement.
he should undertake the matter. He thought that the (Hear, hear.) He could arum the howl. that no
Mow and the public had a right t• expect that the measure efforts would be spared on the part of her Ma-
should without delay be submitted to the legislature. jesty's government to induce the parties to come to an
HER MAJESTY'S SPEECH. arrangement ; but there were grave questions to be settled,
amongst the rest, one connected with the succession to the
lln C. VILLIERS brought up the report upon the
sidoses, which was red a first time. crown of Denmark, another as to what should be the future
constitution of the duchy of &bleu* with others of equal
Upon the question that it be read a second time, importance. The homurahls and ICarned member Oar
Kr. DISRAELI, in reference to the question which had Younal wished to know whether it was likely that
been just asked respecting Greece, said that the answer given the Russian government would fulfil the engagements with
the Secretary of State reminded him of the assurance regard to the principalities raki, it had entered into with
sea to the hoe", in her Maierty's speech, that her Ma' the Porta at ass clue of last year. It was quite true that
y happily continued in peace and amity with foreign at the pretreat moment the Russia. forces is the principale
peen. It appeared to him, at the time, that the language ties exceeded considerably the number stipulated for by the
mas seek as ought not, under any circumstances, to have arrangement of last year, bat one most make some allow-
perm& unnoticed by the H use of Commons. This was the ano for ehe miens end disco', airennutannit null had
mad year in which a very significant alteration had taken arisen since, and it was not fair to infer from the tact that
Naas in the form in which the sovereign had communicated the force had not as yet been reduced to the
is the npreeestatine of the people the Mathias which sub- stipulated amount, that it would not be so reduced at an
skid between us and foreign powers. Usually we bad been early period. He could only assure the bon. and learned
=ow", and it had be" the assurance to which member that he felt no apprehension whatever of an attack
this money had always looked with
andgra!! in.*. by Russia on Turkey in the spring. He was persuaded on
twat, that between her ht .jesty all la- the contrary, and his impressions were founded on the aa•
mem powers there existed relations of very friendly surances of the Russ an government that Russia entertained
ehanter. The language which was generally used trim none hut friendly feelings towards the Turkish empire-
-1846 had been end on all occasions except last year, in which that as soon as local circumstances would oermit, the amount
her Mai. sty assured us she continued to receive from all of force in the principality would be ridded to the number
pewee and states assurances of their friendly disposition. stipulated, that was, 10000 on each side. ;The
"la year there as singular alteration and "Dienes from Turkish force had already bass reduced to that
the speech, via., that the house were not idemed that her number,. and he felt pecked, convinced that the
Majesty "maned frem foreigners the assurances of Russiantheißussianforce would, as soon as the season admitted of the
friendly deposition. The leaguer this year was still mon removal of troops, les reduced to the same amount. lie was
meagre and supiciwts than last year, became to inform par- not awarethat there was any other point requiring es ow.
&nest that her Majesty continued is pesos and amity with non.
foreign powers was merely to inform parliament that her
Majesty was not at war ; and although to a certain extent Sir R. INGLIS observed that the meet serious question
remained unanswered, namely, whether the theek blockade
that was a satisfactory announcement, it woe not altogether was undertaken with the conctinence of Frame and Russia.
so, unless the commercial clue of this country could The k-n. baronet crowded to
pronoun°, a warm eulogy as
be enured that there was no prospect of the continuance the talent, as a di/amines, of the late British wanton he
et the blockades, for the establishment of which the Greece, Sir E. Lv
t administration had been remarkable, and he should • eaL
=ken the opportunity of calling the attention of the Lord PALMERSTON said that in seeking redress kr
the grievances of their subjects, the representatives of this
brass to this subject, had it not been for the muted anxiety
country were not in the habit of eking consent from the
et both sides to come to a division on the other night, and
be should have pared the circumstance imitated in the agent* of other pewees.
report, had it not been foe the remarkable circumstance THE ADDRESS.—FREE TRADE.
which he thought he might say without exaggeration, On the mediae for bri up the report on the addles,
had occasioned considerable mimeo° in the 'nanny, and he Mr. FACILE rose to addease the house on the subject of
took this opportunity of adverting to two or three ether free trade and its effects on ageoulturs, bat the noise of con-
subjects commend with the foreign polity of the sass- variation through **house became so great, that his °bur-
try, to expect some informatics from the Seentary of Tattoos were almost inaudible. He was understood to say
state. As her Majesty exintiand in peace with foreign that it was not his intention to treat the home to any
powers, the noble to rd might find it immodest to inform tie rhetorical fireworks, bat to show by figures of &ethane
holm whether bar Moiety's representative had yet ever been that U free trade were persisted in, the farmer,
received at the court of Ma&id, and also whether there was the labourer, and eventually the consumer kismalf, snot be
any psoepeet of the court of Yenta sending an ambassador ruined. Tice honourable member,. then repeated the
to the taut of St. James's. He thought also the noble lord statement regarding the locomen's and ont
might *elk it convenient to offer some explaaation on some of his own farm as previously_ wen by him Is rahl:
peas de* were of an ambiguous character. They were apse* at the H meeting. W. understood the general
that la the coon. of the autumn differentiae of a result to be, that the rent of the fain was Na. per
' melees character lITON between the governments d Austria acre, and that even it an abatement of 28 per
owl Amok en the one heed and the Sublime Porte on the cent. ware conceded, he could not continue its
other lad the Nast paragraph informed parliament that cultivates without a ruinous less to himself,
ei whisk took place between the Turkish and It bad been said on the other side that the redaction in the
reigm -mnasats bad fortunately removed my danger price of corn woe a bandit to the o TO cheese, but it
peast, of Europe, which might have arisen oat at these was got so as regarded the turd operative, who in
Mlllissem. ' That appeared to him to he a minpieto state- most Inatome' grew his own corn. No me was Mere re.
amt. If explanations took plass &tweet the Terkel mid joked than he was to hoar that the maaaboturing interest
IsPerial governments whisk earbanattly removed these was flourishiag, bet with regard to the pun: improvement

The Bad et ABERDEEN seeleeed sums blame to the
government for the precipitancy with which they hod acted
in this affair, end endeavoured to mix up the personal
grievants,' alleged as the ground of til• point blockade
the seizure of two islands Wag adjusted to the coast of
Greece, and which
Lord LANSDOWNE eurlaitted to appertain to the
lonian group nadir an arrangement of some era-,
aidersble standing. He wished it to be andetifficia
that he had not denied that Sir T. Wyse lad demanded
'• cmessios of the island., but it hewed no part of the sate
eal &mead. The minister ender the noble earl,
ha wee in use., had made the sense demand tetritory.
(Hear, hest )
Lord BROUGHAM was glad to hear that the territory
was not demanded to be given up in 24 hours. TIMM
islands were most worthiest things—one of them, he wait told,
support.d two boats, and the other a few hares. (Laughter.)
The aubjeet then dropped.
THE ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.
The Martjaisof LANSDOWNE bed oa the table • bill to
amend all the trailing Bete with regard to the Ecclesiastical
Committable.
BUENOS AYRES.
1 he Barl of HARRO WBY inquired whether the govern-
ment aid any objection to lay on the table the treaty which
had been emend into wilt the state of Baena Ayres.
Tee Marquis of LANSDOWNE was understood to inti-
mate that Inc government would not object.
Thar lordships adjourned at a quarter put cis.

--
The name of Viscount Clifden was omitted by sietskt
from the list of the majerity in the lords who v0t..4 in favour
of tha 'Odra. —Note. The division lies in the Lords are
not priottd with the votes, as is the eau in the Commons, but
are supplied by patties interested in their publicity, therefore
the journals in which they appear are not responsible for
their correctness.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MoNDAy, FEB. 4.

-- -
The Srsacsa took the chair at 4 o'cloek.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
SUNHAT LABOUR IN THZ PUNT OITICIL—By Sir D
DUNDAS. fro• flatherlsnitihira: Mr. ROBARTES, from
a pplea• in Canswidl; Mr. HENLEY. from Oat, rd; Visoottot
BROOKE. from Warwick; Mr. TOLLBIJACHE, from a
pl.c in Cheshire; Mr. H. MARTIN, trots the Cheitenbara
Wilde:ran conrepation ; and b. an Hon. M from
Sowlis.opton, the transmission of letters through
tb. Post-efllos on the Sabbath.
- - -

Tan WINDOW Tax —By Mr. GREEN, from Lancaster,
preying torn repeal of the window tax.
Tan Swervica Svarme.—By Mr. Alderman SIDNEY.
from ecivainjourneymen tailors in the city of Lnadou, cam-
pla;n rg of the sweating .yetem.
Banxavran Acr.—By Mr.ROEBTICK, complaining of
the present Bankruptcy Act.
NOTICE OF MOTION.
AORICULTDRAL Dirrassa.—bir. DISRAELI gore notice
that he should, ore an early day, move that the house re-
solve Peel( into • eommitt.• of the whole binge, for the
purpose of taking Into con•ileratimi etch • revision of the
tar s relvtine to die relief of the p 30f of the Unind indom
as would relieve the diem.' of the agriculturists. ((Chain.)

SAVINGS BANKS.
Kr. HUMS mcved for numerous returns on the subject
of sayino banks' depositors, whether Individual., chsritsblr
inuit it, MO, or friendly societies, far the year ending the
20;h of November, 1847,1848, 1549; and other returns in
emnelit, with the tame sabint, is continuation of rutin.
ment.ry rayon of 141111i011 1844.

.
114lUtTeursiated.
THE ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.
Mr. B. DENISON wi.tied to ask the noble bed what
course he inteadei to pursue in reerenca to the Eceletiasti.
ea Conunimion, and whether any measure which the
noble lord =gin prapese to introduce would contain pro-
%%Sinn for the regulation of Church lands.
Lord J. RUSSELL eai I that with respect to the
first question, he had to state that a bill had been pre-
pared on the subject of the etclesiestical comniasion, but as
there was a grad deal of business to he brought before the
hour, it had been deemed advisable to introduce it first in
the House of Lords, and he bel'eved that his noble friend
Lord Lansdowne would that night in the other kJuse ask
permission to introduce it. With regard to the see n.d ques-
tion, a repast containing a great variety of information had
been prepared by the commission, which had been priNented
to her Majesty. When the report had been sutticitntly c n-
eidered end deliberated on, he htped that the government
would be able to intraduce a bid founded upon it.
BORNEO PIRA: ES.—HEAD MONEY.
Mr. HIJME asktd the first Lord of the Trinsury whe-
ther :he noble lord would lay upon the table of the house
the reports furnished by the commanding officers, whether
of her Majesty's or the But India Csmpaey'e navy, engaged
in op:rations for the alleged suppres-ion of piracy against
the natives of Barnes, on the rivers Mori tatim, Sarebas.
S Annan, and other place*,:during 1649; together with the
oorresrondence between Sr J. Brooke and her Msjesty's
government on the ume subject. He wished to know whe-
ther government wee going to give the requisite informa
tion.

Lord J. RUSSELL—We Phall be ready to lay ea the table
ell the isforosetien +bleb we bawl.

THE NEW HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Mr. EWART asked the boo. =tuber for Lancaster, who
was generally acquinted wilt the progress of the building
of the new Hours of Parlimes% what was the rate of the
House of Commons, at.d at what period would it be ready
for members ?

Mr. ORBENE Bald he wrote yeeteeday to Mr. Bury
to uk wham he ttoug. t 3 house would ba ready, and he
replied—. That thole portions of the banding were now so
far alvaneed towerls emipletion, that if a suffident vote
were taken—(much taught. r),—the whole might be got
ready for the ase of mettoers by the commencement of the
next ...aloe."

piths leboarlog olosem, as somited by the hoe. Molter of
the address, be &Wed be tart... Oae proof which
that how. ratlemen addend of Mae poeeperity was the re•
duties ia the demand ea **paw Me, lint he (Mr. Peelle)
could lakes that koo. gentleness that whatever was the
ease in ease dietr us. there had Imes aes redaction of the
poor rates ha Lelo stershine. Ia osselosisa the honour.
able gentleman expressed hie oenvieden that protein-
lion was nieeseary, lot only far the agriculturel into
net, bat for the permanent prosperity of the country at
large. (Hear, beer.)
Mr. HUNS observed that the bon. gentleman who bad
jut eat eown, 'bough he attended quarter sessions regularly,
appeared to be totally Ignorant of the principles which regu-
lated moiety in reference to commerce end manufactures.
What would be said if the manufacturers WON to Orme to
Patlismeut and Teri seating the dept rabls state to which
they seer' reduced by the reduction of the pokes of their
manufactures—that they were obliged now to sell cotton
stooos for which they tormitely obtaiued ninepene• • yard for
three pence, demand protection on the ground that Par-
liament had bien lestrurnent 1 in producing that even in
consequence of inhering consulted in its legislation the in-
terests et the consumer rather than of the replacer 1 Such
• demand would he scouted as ridiculous. (Hear.) Gen-
tlemen opposite seemed to have been satrap fur the last half
century it they suppoed that was the priuciple on which
thou things proceeded. (Hear, hear.) No 'perch
had satisfied him more in the course of the debate
on the address then that of the hon. member who
moved the amendment. (Hear, hear.) Though he did not
agree in all his conclusions, he went fully with him in his
demand for carrying out the (reservist principle in every-
teing. (Hear, hear.) Na doubt the sudden transition
frntu protection to free trade in corn occasioned much
difficulty to the producer.; but that diffi oalty
mainly due to the agriculturists thenuelyes who
had itrenueusly refused to proceed gradually from ihe bad
and unnatural to a good and natural system. But hen gen-
tlemen opposite would never Helen to any prop odtion of that
k tee In 1819, be (Mr. Hume) endeavoured to show the
absolute necessity of aeaadoniust the unnatural and artificial
state of things in regatd to the earn lawn which then pre-
veiled, and prepaid that they should do it gradually by fixing
a duty 0110. for tl c first year (and he would not have
objected had it been greater) and reducing it Is. a year after-
wards until they returned to a State 01 perfect iris trade—
but oat of • full bone.—he believed nearly 800 members—
only 13 voted (or the repetition. (Heer, heat.) Since then
however a revolution had taken place in mess' minds; the
evidence taken by the import duties enmmite.e had
opened the eyes of the whole world he might al.
mo t sty, but certainly of the mato of the route or
tbis country, and free trade in earn had hi en established.
If prices continued so low that the lend could not tee cul-
tivated at its pres nt expenditure without a leas, that i ern
tore must be reduced either by lowering the rent or in some
other way. He did net refer to warm, which, it appealed,
wen sufficiently low straitly. Ile was sorry to say that
waves were as low as 7e. or Be. in the he.. gentlemen's
neighbourhood. It was not so in his part of the country.
But the lsrdlords had raised the alarm unnecessarily, and
inetead of exhorting the farmers to exertion to meet the
difficulty in which the sudden change front protection to free
trade bad placed them, acid anieting in that object them-
selves, they went round the armory calling public meetings,
raising th cry of alarm, end telling the farmers that they
must all be ruined, and there was no help for it—(bear)—
until they bad BO impressed the farmers with the
truth 01 they statements, that he believed that they
would be miser, able if they were cot veined.
(Cheers and laughter.) Last year, when he moved for a select
committee to inquire into the subject of the county
rates, with the view to reduce that bunk n, very
few of the agricultural members voted with h.m.
The subject of der. triati a had been referred to
by the hon. gentleman who lett spoke, and he a, creed to
suppose that depreciation la farming stock and farming capi-
tal had never taken place before in this county. Iu 1643,
when that question was before the house, a gentleman—a
member of the Aerieultural Aar ciation—eent him (Mr.
Hume) a paper pointing out the great eepreciati which
had taken piece in 1812, in cooeequerce of the 1 w price. of
that year. (Hear, hear.) The calculation this gentleman
made was that farming stock and farming capital bad suf-
fered a depreciation in 1812, as compared with the previous
year, of 25 per cent., or, in the grove 117,1)00 0001. This
return was made in Feb., 1843. But he (Mr. Hume) took it
that the greater the depreciation, as resulting from tree trade,
the greater the injustice which had been committed by mo-
n epoly on the peers at large. (Hear, bear.) 116 hon.
triend who had moved the address (Mr. C. Villier.) had
calculated that the loss to the c immure, by riot:mien had
been 91,000,0001. a year. Now, tie (Mr. Hume) remem-
bered that in his evidence biters the import committie, the
hh. member for Glasgow (Mr. 111'Gregor) stated, as the
result of • calculaties made by him in coieuncion with Mr.
D. Hume. that the loss to the community by these protective
laws was 60,000,0001. a year—an amount equal to the whole
of the taxes laid on by the crown. (Ilea.) That state-
ment was pooh pooh'd at the time, but he rejoiced to find
that its correctness was now confirmed. Twenty years ago
the cotton trade amounted to 31 or 35 millions, one fitth
only of which was taken by the home market, the rest being
exported to foreign countries. (Cheers.) The opening of
the trade in corn ass the means by which the induce) of
the country would be beat promoted and the condition of
the labourer improved, as it would enable the foreigner to
send here that alone which he could pay for our manu-
factures. (Hear, hear.) He should be glad when lb • day
mime for the promised debate as to the effect of free trade on
labour Income he was tours that the result would be that it
had been so far se It had gone most beneficial.
hear.) The present debate in which the leaders
on the other side appeared to be altoge her
beaten in facts end in argument must be pecu,
liarly gratifying to the right hon. baronet Sir R. Peel,
as evidencing the triumph of those principles he so ably ex-
pounded in 1842 (Hear.) He wished, while on his legs,
to obtain some informat on from the roble lord (J. Romell),
not on our foreign relation*, but our home affairs, which ap-
peared to occupy not one-tenth of the attention on the part
of ministers whim' were given to fereign metiers. (hear.)
Ministers hal intimated tome change in respect to the elec-
tive franchise in lrelend, but he thought the people of this
country were alert en hied to some consid-ratan. Looking
at the situation in which we were placed, mad the manner
is which the people had supported the government in their
endeavours to preserve the peace, the quiet orderly manner
in which they bad conducted themeelves amid severe rive,
dims and suffering entreed them to some atteation and some
✓elief. (Hear, hear.) He regretted to find no allivion in
the speech from the throne to the extension of the suffi age.
The promise made by the noble lord in 1832 t f the entire
removal of Sins legidation—the taking the power out of
the hands of the few and placing it in those of
the real representatives of the people had not I
been realised under the Reform Bill. ( Hear, hear.)
This brought him to the last paragraph in the royal speech;
end Le hoped the noble bold would avail himself of the pre-'
sent oppertunity to state to the house whether he meant to
introduce a retort in paeliement, and make such other
changes as would diminish the amount of ceme in the coun-
try. The parasraph was as follows;—" It is her Majesty's
hope and belief, that by combining liberty with order, ny
preserving what is valuable, and amending what is detective,
you will sustain the 'abric of our institutions as the abode
and the shelter of a free and happy people." Ile
asked nothing more. He wanted nothing woe
than to preserve what was valuable, and to amend
what was defective. The noble lord had admitted,
and all hon. gentlemen were aware of the defec-
tive state of the representation; therefore it was sincerely to
he hoped that the noble lord would be able to state whether
it was his lineation to propose any extension or parliamen-
tary reform, so ea to take away that which was Winn in the
eye of the people—namely, the nomination of hon. members
to that house. (Hear, hear.) He believed that a large por-
tion of our military establishments were kept up in order
to suppress the demands of the people. He supported
the principles of the chatter, but repudiated al
together the attempts made to carry it out ;
and it appeared perfectly clear to him that the
noble lord and his colleagues hail been obliged to add to the
military force, and to increau the number of their condos
laws, with the view of putting down the demands which
universally existed, particularly among the artizan.. He
submitted that the speech of the noble lord against the de-
mends of the protectionists would apply equally well is '
favour of giving the people parliamentary reform,
placing them within the pale of the constitution,
and interesting them in the institutions of the
country; and he believed that if these rights Were
punted, the noble lord would do more to establish her Ma-
Joey's throne in the hearts of her subjects than by any '
other plan he could adopt. (Cheers.) Another question he
wished to ask was this, was it the intentioa of her Majesty's
government to afford relief by taking off those taxes which
were known to be most miechievou and injurious to the
people ? Her Majesty had alluded in her speech to the pre-
eausisse *gaunt sickness, and to the necessity of adopting
=unsure+ ; but how could the noble lord put a son-
that kind in her Majesty's mouth, or appear earnest
in Ma 'era sion. of wishing to attend to sanatory measures,
when he still imposed the window-tee, which was the great-
est
of all enemies to the health and comfort of the working
Hanes ? He called upon the noble lord to lessen the burdens
at home by reforming the whole of our colonial system,
making the colonies free and willing adjuncts of this
seastry, giving them the means of managing their own
Whirs, and paying their own expense,. The advantages of
111 la reform would he two-fold. We might then relieve our-
selves from the support of that large military force which
MOO sow maintained for the preservation of order in the
Weans, and we should have emigrants in huge numbers
front this country of their own accord. (Hear.)
Crisirtgre three points, then, upon which the country
required information ; and he (Mr. Hums) should feel
HeiMidal to the noble lord if he would at once avail himself
el the opportunity to satisfy all inquiry.
Mr. H. GRATTAN expatiated on the unspeakable die.
tress which prevailed is Ireland, and which he traced to the
criminal ommaious and commissions of the ministry. That
country could have fed England, but that her Curdy la-
bourers were expatriated, or left in compelled idleness. The
product of Ireland was annihilated, her exports destroyed,
and hermit left floating a lifeless Nods upon the western
water', la a helpless *tradition, which was called tranquillity.
After declaring that Irishmen despised the charity of
Inglead, aad came not in the guise of beggars, the hon.
member declared that the proper plus of the ministers was
not on the ministerial, nor any other bench of that house,
j but at the bar, there to take their trial before an insulted
and outraged country. He prorouneed even the bar unfit
for the members of the government, whose demerits could
only be adequately vidted upon the block, when, as in
ardent Rome, the lbluding head of a minister might haply
be the prognostic of safety to Ireland's capital.
Mr. P. HOWARD begged to address a few words to the
hones en what had fallen front the hon. member for Mon-
trose. They had men with satisfaction that her Majesty's
ministers proposed to extend the now contracted limits of the
bishoosetinteacy. Now, he did not feel any jukes, as

regarded thew, but be thought it would be most satisfactory
to the people of this smutty, if the noble lord at the bead
fd_ the administration were to take some steps at

this time of promand peace to extent the franchise
in this country. He thought government might do
It now vrithent appearing to follow in the wake of
foreign powers. The people had shown by their good con-
duct that they wets ripe for further elective privilege a, and
he thought some concession should nt.w be made to them.
H. thought that an extension to household suffrage might
now be made, that it might be done with perfect safety, and
that it would he duly appreciated by the country at large.

Mr. P. BENNEt said he ahouid not have risen but
from the misrepresentation/ which the shover of the address

had auto withrregard to the labouring dames. He looked
forward to free trade affecting the labouring classes more than
any other clan, and by the labouring class he did not mean
merely the workmen congregated in large town., but the
labouring classes spread all over the country and living in
towns which were in a great measure dependent on agricul-
ture, and he believed that the number of thou connected
with agriculture was much greater than those connected
with nuaufactures. The honourable mover c f the address

■aid, that even in the agricultural distrie•s the labourers
were either better off, as they had either more welts*, or
they got more f.r the same money. Now he
(Mr. 'Sonnet) denied the fact of their receiving
more wages. Their ernes were dreadfully reduced. In his
cruelty there were more men out of work than in any
district in the kingdom. He might be ashamed of Ihar,
but from the great reduction in the prices of produce.
the farmers were not able to employ them. Distress 13-d
been felt by the agriculturists not rely in 1848, but in 1847,
for the crop was so very small, and the harvest so extremely
we is 1447, that with •.etter prices it wee equally bed for
the producer. In 1849 the produce was much ovirrat‘ ;
it was hardly an average. At the present moment there
were immettee numbers of labourer.; lurkiug about without

employment. Some fsrmois had thought it bete, to re-
dote the wages, others had redu:ed the number of days on
which they employed the men, and the feet of the price ell
the principal snicks of consumption beirg reduced was of no
avail tot" em, •or they had no money wherewith to purchase
them. The wu 'es wore 7E, in some pl,cts only Gs. a week.
Colonel SIBTHORP said he felt mxinus during the
debate on the distress, to address the hem., but the anxiety
of the house to e' me to a dividon prtrluded him from doing
so. He had wished to address the house be cause he hail

been honoured in having t..pecond a rev lotion at one of the
rntest rneett, g• he ever beheld in the county of Lincoln.
There were Irom 15,000 t 20,000 perms present, and Mr.
John Norton, a hue trader, to whom he put the qu.sion,
ack•.owledged that th 3 free traden were ...ead beat,
e. d toll him that the b'mn. mew& r log the

W. et Riding had bean down there on the Madly

lie thenalludedto th.• Financial liploraa AVVII ia.inn, whrch

he called the " Anti-Own Law League ta,ivc I," nn.l the
" Anti Peace Society." lie charged the gov^rnment with
purauieg a course which would al ow toreivntri to carry off

all the premiums in the coming exhibition of arts and ma
nuf.ctures. When he saw . CAIf trusty and well be'oved"
pri fixed to the name of the member fa the West 'Udine,
he kn'w oirectly whit native icdustry hal to expect.
.. .....

(Lsughter.) A'ltiding to the society for iernale emirraiion,
be described it as a innehinery for prnmoing prostitution—
the system was a " cheap and nasty" 4.• no. He next ad-
vert•d to the surplus revenue, slid talked of "cooking ba
lance sheets " Signsturr* were put to sccounts to suit
various pity purposes. lie denied that the excise was in
a tbriviog stytc. Tire mo•t convenient period, the
year I lading in Jsuuary, nad been chosen for making
the comparison. flo felt it hopeless now to oppose the

brineing'up of the address, titer the way in whichrilicy had
been " upset " tie other Light by " the taintterial bugle."
(Laughter.) Ile di a not wish to be captious • but tread on
• worm, and it would turn again ; and he, one, would

• - • -
he (imp. se stop the empplos it the present p liey was lad
hovel v. (Laughter) He was eqnvinetd was imperible
. .

for farmen'to mr.einmin the psition they had held. Let mi-
nisters seecilhet that their best policy was to uphold the
mainstay of the country—the agricultural intertsr. lie next
referred to Lord J Ain Russell's speech at the Marsion-
' house on the 26th alt , and said he believed the government
would be the last to wish to see one man doing the work of

five rr six, or they wish,. find tt.ir own nuntars cut down.
Alioirers were now too tat and too idle Wdo any work,

(Great laughter.)
Sir JOHN YOUNG entirely concurred in the opinion
that the peesentry of Ireland had ve'y little interest in the
queetton of pretectinn. In 1b39, dunee the s-pith ef that
e)stem, the labourer, of Meath were only employed on the
average 115 days in the year,—and this on the moat fe rails
land in the world, and w,th ail the beet fit supposed to be
conferred by protectien. (Hear, beer.) He keens that
county well; the dwellings of the poor there were the most
miserable that could be conceived ; famine and fever had
been the constant concomitants of protection. Reams
which had been made at 'anoint periede showed that labour
had been gradually hemming more 5.:111te, and this was true
with regard to nine-tenths of the labourers i.e Ireland. He
rejoiced to learn the intention of the ge vcrnmeut •o bring
forward some proposal for establishing tencnt-right in
Ireland; if the question were fairly deolt with it
would be a pest boon to the industry eat Met
country, and would disentangle many other perplexing
questions.
Mr. BANKES soil he would appeal to a great authority
for a ',lrmo contradiction of the opinion e intreued by the
last 'perigee, that the distr.*, of Ireland was aggravated by
protection. It was not fair to compare last year with the
one preceding, when may disturbing influence& were at
work, and thence to draw the inference that trade was
Nourishing. But compare the preset nt state of either Enplar.d
or Ireland with their state in 1845, immediately before the
alteration of the c..rn laws ; and what was the account then
eiven by the government of which the hon. baronet (Sir J.
Young) was a member ? In that year her Majesty was
made to any, in her "perch (rem the throne:—
I rejoice that I eta trained, in attain meeting yon to parliament, to
connratulate you on the improved condition of the country. Increased
activity pervades almost every Manch of manufactures ,• trade and
commerce have been extended at home and abroad ; and, among all
ela,es of my people, there is ;centrally prevalent a spirit of loyalty
and ence,ful obedience to the Law.
I have °evened, with sin ',ere satisfaction, that the improvement
which is manifest in other parts of the country has catenated to Ire-
land. The nulitical :notation and excitement whi. h I bare had here.
tofore ere a-ion t lament appear to have aTadual'y abated; and, as a
natu al result, r. pilot has been more fney applied in useful worts,
no-iertaken through the framing co-operation of individuals interested
in the welfare of Ireland. •
And yet tne hon. baronet, himself a member of the go-
vernment who put that site ech into her Majesty's mouth,
now came forward to declare that the case was wholly
different.
Sir J. YOUNG—I rise to order. What I said wu, that
the Irish peasantry hie little or no interest in protection. I
instanced the small amount of employment which they re-
ceived under that system, and I stated that in the county of
Meath famine and fever were frequent curing the existence
of protection. What has that to do with the abatement of
lineation, and the cheerful submission of the people to the
law ? (Cheers.)
Mr. BANKES—With all submission to the hon. baronet,
it has moth to do with it. (Hear.) The peasantry were to
be considered as the people of a country ; and the minister
of that day would not base placed in the mouth of the
sovereipn so glariug a falsehood if, at that v.ry time, the
peasantry had been eufferine under a system which the hon.
baronet now condemned. In his bumble apprehension the
whole of this debate had been conducted under false repre-
sentations—the usumption that we were just emerging from
is period of depression anu distress occur, ned by protection.
The year 1848 was wholly exceptional. Reference ought to
be nude to the five years of protection immediately preceding
the abolition of the corn lam., with reference to which the '
hon. baronet, then a member of the government, seemed to
hive quite changed his opinion.
Sir J. YOUNG—I have never changed my opinion.
Mr. BANKES nice if the hon. baronet had never changed
his opinion, be mint have entertained the one he now held
a lug time without expressing it. The hon. member for
Montrose was anxious for sweeping financial experimental
and alterations ;of the frmchise ; but let the house beware
bow they embarked in such experiments, the result of which
might be something very different from what was antici-
pated. The same hon. member had predicted a rise of
prices from the repeal of the corn laws ; in this he
was clearly in error. Let him not, then, be surprised if
hon. gentlemen on that Bide the house were not disposed to
place implicit confidence in his predictions. (Hear, hear.)
That the cotton manufacture had increased during the last
three years—all years of free trade—he was happy to admit;
but would any one tell him that they had any security for
its continuance because of their free-trade measures? With
regard to the woollen manufactures, was it not true
that their woollen goods were charged a higher duty
by Spain since 1846 ? Since the repeal of the corn
and navigation laws, Spain raised the duty on cer-
tain woollens 2d. in the yard when introduced in
Spanish, and 3d. when imported in English ships.
So much with regard to Spain.
Mr. SPOONER said that he would not have spoken on
the present occasion, but that he had been directly alluded
to by the right hon. gentlemen, the Chancellor of the lie-
ehequer, and the hon. mover of the address, and taunted
with his prophecy respecting the drain of gold from this
country. He admitted that the importation of corn had not
been followed by the export of bullion, but the reverse.
But there were causes which accounted for the fact, and
made it more dangerous than the hon. gentlemen seemed to
be aware of. In the first place it was no unusual circum-
stance since 1819 to have alternate periods of prosperity and
adversity of the influx and efflux of bullion. When they
bad great distress it forced down manufactures, which were
seat •o be sold in large quantities and at a loss in order to
astable the manufacturers to meet their engagement*. Thin
brought back the gold, and it accounted for the increase in
the bullion of the Bank at the present time. Another cause
was the state of agitation on the continent for the last three
or four years. The general impression amongst men
who were able to form a good opinion on
such 'abject& was that from this cause they had
at that moment either invested in the funds or waitiag ter
Investment no less than 25,000,0001. In the next, English
sovereigns, which were a legal tender in Belgium at a fired
p&p, were not so any longer, and from 2,800,0001. to
3,000,0001. had been added to the gold in the country on
that account. Agriculturists alone did not supplicate for
protection ; all classes meandered that no adventurers
should De permitted to compete with the native producers.,
unless on equal onus (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Spooner)
looked forward with great alarm to the result likely to follow
from the present system. They had an immensely dense
population, whose sole employment consisted in work-
up the raw material. Let them look to the temper
and disposition of the penile of the United States,
who were already grudging the English manufacturer
the small profit he derived from the manufacture of their
cotton; and, under the circumstances, how could it be said
that they would not be forced to import their cotton entirely
from elsewhere ? (Hear, hear.) The system altogether of
trusting to foreigners for their supplies was in every respect a
dangerous one. lie did not wish to be understood as re-