The Express.
London, England, 1850-05-07 00:00:00

that the bill may be refined to a melee committee. Me.
III'HINNON, from St. Mary-le-Strand and Paddlagies, in
favour of the bill.
Comm Conan Bit.L.—By Biz ;120gWORTII,'
Ifs orland*th
from Southwark ; Mr. G. HUDSON, I
INTIM, of the bill.
OCNAN Pansy Poer.—By Mr. COBD , from
INIU, to favour of mesa pennyEtsm,
FINANCIAL AND Iranian's aiffirolififfitone.—ByMr
COBDBN, from timencake, t, nt dammial
and puliameetary reform.
AUSTRALIAN COLONIES GOVERNMENT BILL.
Mr. B. DIN ISON inked whether her Majesty's govern-
ment had hilly neonsidered the dense in the bill
the federal aesembly, which had been withdrawn for
damns ?
r. LABOUCRERE said thanks clams had been care-
ful reconsidered, sad that the goverment were prepared,
wine adhering to the principle upon which it had on-
gutsily been framed so to alter it as to give the smaller
colonies enfilefeet weight in the federal easembly should they
thtek proper to join it.
Toe order ef the day for **consideration of the amend-
meets to this tell having been rend,
Sir W. MOLES WORTH said, I beg to meve that Aids
bill be recommitted. The house may remember that is
committee I waived my right to oppose the sth and 11th
clines, of this bill, which would continue to the Colonial-
office its present powers of interfering in the local affairs of
the Australian colonies. I did so for the convenience of the
committee, and on an agreement with the sable lord that on
the bringing up of the report I should be entitled to raise the
impirtant question involved in those clauses, and to take the
seam of the boom on that question alone. Monitore now
propose to recommit this bill. Ido so, lit, for the purpose
of omitting from it all ciausss by which the Colonial-office
would be empowered to interfere with the management of
the local affairs of these colonies • 2nd, for the purpose of
adding certain clause which I have submitted to the cm-
'Winans of the house, and which would give to
thee' enemies the suicontrolled management of their
local affairs. The question for the home :now to
decide is between Colonia!-Ace government and self-
government in the local affairs of these colonies.
I must begin by observing that this bill raises two distinct
questions. First, the quoin question what ought to be the
form of the government of the Australian colonies ? That
question was fully debated and decided in committee; and
I do not presume to ask the house to reverse the decision of
the committee. The other, and in my opinion the far mere
important question, has not been discussed. It is the great
gaieties of colonial polity, namely, what amount of sell
go-
rernmest ought our colonies to poetess, and to what extent
ought they to be subject to the conthiling power of the
Colonial office ? Upon the answer which parliament shall
' fleshly give to ibis question, will depend the future consti-
tution of the colonial empire of Great Britain. And I be-
lieve, according as that constitution shall be well or 01
framed, our colonial empire will last long or speedily perish.
The noble lord the Prime Minister, in his great speech
on the introduction of this bill, distinctly admitted
that the Australian eolonies ought to possess the greitest
amount of self-government, that is not iaconsistent

with the lategritfand well-being of the whole empire. It
most be acknowledged that this bill would not fulfil the
intentions of the noble lord in that respect, but would
merely continue to the colonial office its resent powers of
interfering in the local affairs of the colonies. For if it pass
unamended there is not one single act which • colonial
governor ore colonial parliament can do without the express
or implied consent of the Colonial (file., nor one act which
may not be reversed by the Colonial office I ask the
house to amidst carefully what are to se the powers of the
Colonial office under this bill. First,the Colonial office would
possess the power of instructing every colonial governor as
to depended in all colonial matters. The governor would !
be bound to obey his instructions, whether he liked them or
not. For instance he would have to assent to a bill of which
he disapproved, he would have to dissent from • bill of
which be approved, if so commanded from the antipodes.
Secondly, thh bill, in addition to empowering the
1 Colonial-offices to hotrod • colonial governor how he
is to at in all colonial matters, would squire in many
eases that • colonial governor should abstain altogether
from acting until he have sent to the other aide of
the globe and ascertained the pleasure of the Colonial-office ;
for by this bill a colonial g ,veracr would be absolutely re-
quired to reserve certain rotation bill., he would be able to
reserve any colonial bill, and he would be bound to reserve
every colonial bill which the Colonial-office might instruct
him to reserve. These maned bills would have to be sent
to Downing-etrest; there they would await the signification
of the pleasure of the Colonial-Aloe, and if that pleasure
shield not be signified within the coon of two years, then
the colonial WU would be lost altogether. Thus a tall of
great importance to • colony—affectina, perhaps very inju-
riously, SOON interests, end very beneficially other interests
(say. for instance, • bill of the same importance to • colony
as the corn law or Ten Hour Bill was to this country); such
• bill, if it were reserved, would remain for one year at least,
and might remain for three years, suspended over a colony,
keeping a colony in • state of doubt and anxiesy, and engin-
denag the wont feelings towards the Colonialoffice and '
the mother colony. Thirdly, this bill, in addition
to giving to the Colonial!office absolute control
over ail the acts of the colonial governor would
empower the Colonial office ultimately to annul every
act of a colonial governor, or of • colonial parliament. For
by this bill the Colonial-office would have power to disallow
any colonial act wi•hin two years after its arrival in Down.
ing-street. Thes, after • colonial act has been in full opera-
tion for three years, to the universal satisfaction of the colo-
nists, it might be suddenly annulled by the arrival of • des
patch from the Secretary of State for the colonies. Thus,
strictly speaking, by this bill, the Colonial-office would con-
nate to have the power, in the first instance, of preventing
anything from being done is a colony by a colonidgovernor,
cr a colonial parliament; and it would continue to have
power, in the second instance, of making null and void
everything whico shall be don. by a colonial governor or a
colonial parliament. These are, undoubtedly, vast powers.
To illayrate the ignorance of the Colonial-office with regard
to the condition of a c Away I might mention the constitution
of New Zealand, framed one year and suspended the next.
To illustrate the ignorance of the Colonialo tfice with regard
to the tooling* of the inhabitants of • colony I might mention
the proposal of the Colonialoaffics to deprive the electors of
New South Wales of their franchise, and to give them the
still-bona oonstitui an of New Zealand. To show to what
extent the Colonial office is liable to be misinformed with
regard to the affairs of a colony, I might mention that the
Colonial-office ought to receive only year from each colony
a statistical report of its condition ; that for several year.
tomtit g the Colonial-office received reports from Ceylon,
according to which the number of births, deaths, and mar-
riages in that colony was every year precisely the tams.
Omitting entirely from my consideration the individual
merits of the present functionaries of the Colonial-office, I
must next observe that they are irresponsible for their ma- 1
nagernent of the local affairs of the c !lodes, for they are I
responsible (and in theory only) to those who are themselves
irresponsible, and who know little and cars little about the
colonies. The Colonial-office is said to be responsible to as ;
that responsibility every one knows to be a farce, for the
majority of us take little or no interest in colonial mattes.
But suppose it • reality ; to whom are we responsible for the
management of the local affain of a colony ? To our con-
stitionts ? Why that responsibility is a still greater
farce, for they know lees admire lees about the colonies than
we do. But suppose it a reality, to whom are our constituents
responsible for the management of the local affairs of the
(triodes ? To no one. Therefore, in ultimate analysis the
Colonial-office is Irresponsible ; for, in the language of our
coastitutios, the only meaning of the word responsibility is
the responsibility of the rulers to the ruled. We distinguish
between despotism and fres government by this test alone.
8o do our colonists. And therefore, according to strict con
intonate' logic, they term the power of the Colonial office
a despotic power, because for the manner in which exercised
neither the Colonial-office, nor the British parliament, nor
the people of Great Britain—the* is, none of those who rule
—are responsible to the colonists who are ruled over. Now,
irresponsible power is as distasteful to the colonists in a
colony se it would be to Englishmen in England. For our 1
colonists pride themselves mown being Englishmen. They
appeal to the old constitutional maxim, that an Englishman,
go where he will, carries along with him as his birthright
as much of law and liberty as the nature of things
will bier. And, consequently, therefore they feel
with regard to the powers of the Colonial-office as we
should feel if our bills were to be reserved for
the sanction of a functioaary at the other aids
of the globe, if our ate of parliament were liable ,
to be disallowed at the pleasure of a secretary of state
in Australia; and if our prime minister were bound to obey
the instructions of the unknown and irresponsible officers of
a department at the antipodes. Like all true Englishmen '
they loathe distant and irresponsible government ; when
weak they murmur and obey ; as they wax stronger their
murmurs become menaces ; their menaces, if unattended to,
are followed by rebellion ; and rebellion leads to independ-
ence. In proof of all this I ask the homes to reflect on the
history of oar plantations in America. Remember also
how a few years ago Canada rebelled and obtained re-
sponsible goverment, and how the year before last the
threats of New South Wales compelled the Colonial-office
to abandon its projects. See how the menaces of the Cape
forced the colonial office to submit and to bestow upon that
colony representative government. Liston to the murmurs
of New Zealand, as yet too weak to threaten. Thus is the
eyes of the colonies our Colonial-office is a despotism tem-
pered by menaces sad rebellion., tyrannising over the weak,
cringing to the powerful, univendly hated, and generally
despised. A government hated and despised by its subjects
is doomed to duttactioe, and our alma' empire
will perish U our alonial system soctinue unreformed.
Row saa this system be reformed ? I answer, by refining
to ematisso to as Colonial-office the powers to which I have
lest referred, tad by giving to the colonies the greatest
amount of self-government that is not inconsistent with the
Integrity sad well being of the British empire. If this be
dens la the moaner in which I have prepaid the colonies
will cease to be subjects of the Colonial-office, and will
become integral portions of the British empire e and the
prewoo sod all future colemies will be so many repetitions
of Great Britain, united let one great British empire by
croassoa allegiance to one naonarrh sod to one imperial par-
liament. Bow can this be don, ? Before I attempt to answer
this question I most remind the harts that I moved last
year that an humble addre.s should be presented to her Ma-
jeety prelim that her ?dainty would be graciously pleased
to appose a engem...iota to inquire Into the administration
of her Majesty's colonial poseamions, with a view to • reform
of the altruist system of the British empire. I regret malt
that the house refused its .ascent to that motion, and that I
am now obliged, unaided by that commaion, to attempt to
at mtg. the question is whkh I have referred. In
the British empire the powers of government may
be divided into the two el noes of imperial
and tosiesial poen. By colnitiel powers I mean
those powers which are required for the government of •
colony in all matters affecting Its local or internal interests.
By iiaperlal powers, I mean those powers which are re-

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY

w..--
parllament, with the nemseary exception of imperial powers.
The Bret Tandem is how to draw the If.. of dims/aide* be.
twee. imperial sad colonial powers. IlLetStt he done
in 'two different =main • either by env Yamaha
powers, sad thee all other 'powers would be imps pewees;
or by esamerating imperial powers and that all other
powers weeitil be colonial powers. I popsies to adept the
letter made, for it is evident that imperial power cosesen
fewer topics, are therefore fewer in number, and i 5....
quently can be more easily enumerated than lotted
I peop.ee, therefore, in the clause which I have stitt7ticsi
to the house, to enumerate Imperial powers, sad all other
restriction. which ought to be pat upon the pewter of the
ookteial legislatures . • and then with the exemptions so enu-
merated to give to the colonial parliament within their
respective colonies all the powers possessed by the
British parliament be the British islands. To prove
that this would be done by the clauses or
rather constitutes which I have procosed, I ask what are
the chief powers of_governannt I will answer by quoting
Blackstone to the effect that the Queen is the supreme head
of the British empire ; is right of her regal dignity she poi-
seems absolutely certain special powers called prerogatives.
Among the prerogatives of the crown or connected with them
are all the chief powers of goverment. Therefore: if I
were to enumerate and consider the prerogatives of the
in so doing I should have to consider all the chief poeerrn
goveraMent both imperial and colonial. According to Bleak-
nose, the prerogatives of the crown respect either the natioa's
intercourse with foreign nations, or Its own domestic affairs.
With regard to foreign nations, the Queen has the prerogative
of sending and receiving anibuseders, making treaties, pro-
claiming war, issuing reprisals, and granting ash
condone. Then prerogatives are evidently imperial powers
I therefore propose to reserve them to the crown, sad
restrict the colonial parliaments from touching them. Neat
in domestic affairs. First, the Queen is a constituent part of
the supreme legislative opulent. Therefore the Gana has a
negative on all new laws both imperial and colonial. It is,
evident that the Queen csa only 'incise the veto by mesas
of the officers of the crown. With regard to colonial laws;
At present the Queen exercises the veto by the agency
of the Colonial-Ace, and the Colonial.offles exercises
it in some cases by the egeacy of the colonial covertly/.
I prom*, beaus the veto oa colonial law is evidently
a colonial power, and for other matrons which I have already
stated, that the Coloniel•office aball cease to exercise the
veto, that the crown shall vest it in the colonial governor,
and that the colonial parliament shall be restricted from
making any law affecting its exercise by the colonial
governor. It has been stated that I propose to deprive the
crown of the prerogative of the veto. Great stress has been
laid upon that statement. It is, however, manifestly incor-
rect, as the low-officers of the crown will at once admit.
For I only propose that certain clausts of 5 &
Vitt., cap. 76, shall not be continued. Now the
law-officers of the crown will admit that these
dames did not create the prerogative of the veto on colonial
lawn, and therefore they will acknowledge that by omitting
ert repealing those clauses the crown will not be deprived of
that prerogative, sad that the prerogative of the crown after
the ',peal of those clauses will be precisely the same as it was
before their enactment. Those clauses merely made it law
tel for the Queen by Order in Council, that Is to say by
order of the Colonial- iffiee, to negative colonial laws. I pro•
pose to omit those clauses, and that in their stead parliament
shall make it lawful for the Queen, by order of the colonial
governor, to negative colonial laws. Therefore I merely propose
tonansfer the exercise of the veto from the Colonial-office
so the colonial governor; that is, I propose virtually to tran
wen the Colonial office, with all its powers, to the colonies.
TN seemed prerogative of the crows ea domestic affairs, to
which Blackstone refers, is that in virtue of which the
Qssen is first in military command in the empire, may raise
fleets and armies, and build forts. These are evi
dently imperial powers to be reserved to the crown,
and not to be touched by the colonial parliaments.
The Guam is the fountain of justice ; therefore the
Queen has the right of determining nuns by means of her
joists, of establishing courts of judicature, and of granting
reprieves and pardons. I propose, in conformity with the
principles I have laid down, to reserve to the Queen in
council—lot, the power of determining all imperial cause.,
that is, all causes touching imperial powers; 2nd,
the power of deti rmining all causes whatever en appeal ;
and of establishing imperial courts in the colonies, with
the same jerisdicuon as that of the Queen in Council. I

__------ -
propose tliat the power of granting reprieves and pardons
should, as at present, be vested in the governor; and that the
colonial parliamenta should be restricted from passing any
law affecting there powers. I propose also that the colonial
governors shall appoint the colonial judges; this power t
be subject to any alteration to be made by the colonial parlia-
ments, with the restriction, however, that they shall not
makellany judge's tenure of office different from the judge's
tenure of office in this country,—that is, dependent on any-
thing but good behaviour,—nor diminish his salary
durieg his continuance is office. 4. The Queen
is the fountain of honour and office. I propose to
reserve to the Queen the power of granting titles
of honour and nobility, mad of appointing all imperial OH
ears, and that the colonial parliament shall not touch these
powers. I prop .s• that the colonial governors shill appoint
all colonial officers, this power to be subject to any al•eration
to be mad* by the colonial parliament, as the colonists pay
their own officers. 5. The Queen is the arbiter of com-
merce, and therefore coins money. The power of coining
would be reserved to the crown by my constitution. 6. The
Queen is the head of the national church. I pro-
pose that there shall be no national church in the colonies,
and consequently do not propose to reserve this prerogative.
Lastly, I have to mention the fiscal prerogatives of the
crown, and I need only mention the power of the crown to
dispose of waste land& minerals, fines, forfeitures, royalties,
and the revenue from the Post-ofti-e. I propose to reserve
to the crown the power of regulating the transmission of
letters by sea, as that is evidently an imperial power; I
propose to vest in the colonial governor all the other fiscal
prerogatives of the crown, to be exercised according to acts
of the colonial parliaments, for these are undoubtedly
colonial powers of great importance to the co-
lonists. I Lave now, following Blackstone, com-
pleted the enumeration of the prerogatives of the
crown, and shown that, with certain exceptions, the
colonial parliaments should be restricted from touching these
prerogatives. The reserved prerogatives I have divided into
two dames. Ono clue containing those prerogatives which
are required for the management of the common concerns
of the whole empire, such, for instance, as making treaties,
commanding armies, itc., are imperial powers, I have, there-
fore, reserved their powers absolutely to the crown. As
some or all them prerogative. may at times be required to
be exercised in the colonies, I propose that the Queen may
vest any of these prerogatives in the governor of the colony.
Therefore, as far as them- prerogatives are concerned, the
governor would be an imperial officer, and bound to obey
instructions from the imperial government, and therefore, in
my opinion, ought to be paid from the imperial treasury.
The other class of prerogatives, containing those which are
required for the managemsit of colonial affairs, are colonial
powers such as the veto granting reprieves and pardons.
These powers I propose to vest absolutely in the governor ;
therefore, as far as these powers are concerned, the governor
will be a local officer, and, consequently, should not be
bound to obey instructions from the imperial government.
It may be said that the union of imperial and colonial powers
in the same individual is bad in theory. I acknowledge it
is so. In theory it would be better, if possible, to separate
them, to vest ell imperial (powers in imperial officers paid
and appointed by the empire, and to vest all colonial powers
in a colonial governor paid sad elected by the colony. Ido
not, however, propose, to raise the question of an elective
governor. For, as I have already said, I consider that the
question of the form of government of those colonies
has been settled in committee I will only observe that
it is a fundamental doctrine of the constitution, that the
crown, in the exercise of its prerogatives, should always act
by ministers responsible to the representatives of the people.
It the colonies the crown exercises its prerogatives by means
of the governor; therefore, the governor should hs responsi-
ble for the exercise of imperial powers to the imperial par-
liament, and for the exercise of colonial powers to the colo-
nial parliament. Now, as there can be no doubt that a so-
leelal governor, or any ther officer of the crow.' would be •
removed. oa an address praying for his removal being pre-
sented from either house of the imperial pediment, I think
that a colonial parliament ought to possess some power,
causing the removal of a colonial governor by address to the
crown. In order that such a power skinld net be exercised
rashly, I propose, that. to insure removal, the address
must be agreed to by two-thirds of the whole
number of numbers of the scionlal parliament.
In enumerating and determining the prerogatives of the
crown in the colonies and reetriming the colonial parlia-
ments from passing any law affecting those prerogatives, I
have stated what are the chief restrictions which I propose
to put on the power of the colonial puliaments. The other
restrictions which I propose are supplemental to those
which I have enumerated. They ere required for the lune
purposes of maintaining the supremacy of the crown, and
the unity of the empire both at home and abroad, and are
ante thod to prevent the colonial parliament—l. From
peeping any law affecting the dignity of the crown
or the allegiance of subjects. 2. From interfer-
' ing with the foreign relations of the empire, and
the laws which regulate those relations both in peace
end war. 3rd. From interfering with the command
of the general forme of the empire. 4th. From conferring
any exclusive privilege on any portion of the subjects of the
empire. sth. From violating certain fundamental prin.
ciples of British policy, which I hold to be sacred; for
instance, that there shall be no slavery in the Bri-
tish dominions. I have now stated in panel
terms the legal restrictions which I propose
to put on the powers of the colonial parliament.
They will be found in detail in the clauses which I have
submitted to the consideration of the house, I propose there-
fore that, with the exceptions which I have mentioned, the
colonial parliaments &hall have the same power of making
laws within their respective colonies, as the parliament of
Orsat Britain has within the realm of Great Britain. Now,
it might so happen that a colonial parliament should exceed
its powers, and maks an enactment in contravention of the
restrictions which had been imposed up ot it. I propose to de-
clare that such an enactment shall he invalid ; and to create a
supreme court which shall determine questions relative to
the validity of a colonial law. I propose, (as in fact I have
already done) that her Majecty in council shall be the
supreme wort, and shall have both original and appellate ju-

EVENING, MAY 7, 1850.

In oil wee asking wider • colonial *institution (as
le whoa the !solidity et a salads' law shall be galled
tprilli p go mks mg ported se* Jorisdietiss
ony are le, the entree et the emleft. Is fact, I
eopy the Jadistal system eel die sales of
A roisters of the Milted States on sitalias smatters.
beteditory wseeenhy &Geld pluses the prom
siveesndat. *kb the enseptiss of that of Ilsulswirittli
• osstral tepelhis persasso. It it posespeilne, the eop•
would *mese to be one body politic ; if it sob-
N, possess nom the casein will be dims-
the wait of sellvewersiseissr sad on tin

Nadia when Ode Imam' is America.
4 Me etellM• I *epos that the Colonial-offies
.hallOMßtr i tsslt.a Igith the management of the local
Wain d Oise .Ladle. aid that they shall possess the
greatest amount of sail that J. not inentsiereat
with the malty and wall M the British empire., With
this obis.' fa view, I =Mit le the asmsidsregjon of the house
the manures to which 1 have nfened. I do so with diffi-
dence as to the details of those /111•11•11 TIPS, but with con-
fidence that they an founded upon the true prinsdpies of
0010111111 pokey. (Cheers.) I therefore ask the house to re•
commit this bill, for the purpose of taking the clauses iota
consideration, with the view of giving to the colonies real
and efficient selbgeverameat. (Load sheen.)
Mr. LABOIJCHBBE would Welly state reasons which
be:hoped would be sufficient to induce the house sot to
agree to the motion of the hon. baronet to recommit the
hill. The question the hon. goads's= had brought forward
was not new to the house, it having be brought forward
on a previous occasion. lie went quite as far as the hon.
baronet in contending that it was for the interest of the
u other country, as well as the colonise, that the manage-
ment of their local woven should be left as much as pee-
sib's to the colonies themselves, and that the interference of
the imperial government should be confined as much es pos-
sible to imperial questions. But his objection to the propo•
siting of the hon. baronet was, that be felt convinced that
the scheme propounded and the machinery by which it was
pror-sed to carry it out would so far from effecting the object
in view, introduce nothing but confusion and discontent
throughout our colonial empire. (Hear.) The hon. gentlemen
undertook in an act of parliament to define the prerogative
of the crown, and to define and limit and separate all ques.
tions of an imperial from those of a local nature. Re pro-
hit iced the colonies from interfering with the prerogatives of
the crown, defining and limiting them to 18 in number, and
prohibitleg also their dealing with questions involving imps-
rial interests, which be also made 18 in attune, but with all
other questions the hon. gentleman would give to the colo-
nies full power to deal. Bet it was impossible to define with
aay such precision those interests which were imperial from
those which were not, and still less was it possible to define
and to number the preregativss of the crown in the manner
proposed. The hon. baronet had quoted Bisekstore as to
the prerogatives of the crown, but he (Mr. Libouchere)
should be surprised to hear any lawyer say that Blackstone,
or any other authority on such questions' had limited and
defined the prerogatives of the crown as the hon. baronet hat
dono. Now with regard to the question of the prero-
gatives of the crown, looking at the subject not
with the critical eye of a lawyer but as a
layman, he could discover at the first' glance many
omissions in the hon. baronet's list. For instance the whole
question of martial law was left out—a matter which came
peculiarly within the province of the prerogatives of the
crown should the necessity for proclaiming it ever arise.
Again no mention was made of escheats—and according to
the hon. Inntleman'e plan if a man were to die in any of
the colonies intestate and without kin there would be no

means of dealing with his effects. (Hear, bear.) Tie;
were many other subjects upon which the question of prero-
gative would arise which the hon. gentlemen's list dirt not
include. to which he would not stop to advert, but he be-
lieved firmly that no constitutional lawyer would allow that
it was safe to limit and define the prerogatives of tie crown
as the hon. gentleman proposed to do. He did not go with
the hon. gentleman in regard to the smooth and simple'
manner in which he had stated hie plan would work as to
the matter or leyultioa. Question, would immediati ly arise
with regard to the iiinits of jurisdiction of the colonial and
of the imperial parliament. These questions according to
that plan would be referred to the judicial committee of the
privy council, and arguing from the analogy of
use United States the honourable baronet sup
posed this would give satisfaction to the colonies.
Now he greatly doubted that. He believed the result of
such a plan as the bon. boronet bad suggested would give
rise to needless litigation ; that it would occasion nice points
of law to be argued in Westminster, and that the conse-
quences would be, confusion and delay, and much greater
discontent than existed under the system at present in ope-
ration. (Hear.) The hon. baronet was altogether mistaken
in the analogy he had drawn between the United States and
the English colonies. There was no similarity in the two
ease.. He (Mr. Labouchere) believed that the plan
new proposed had been asked for or dreamt of by any
British colony; and, therefore, he hoped the house would
not ogres to the motion of the hon. baronet for the recom
mittal of the bill. (Hear.)
Mr. ADDEItLEY urged that se we had consented to give
Australia a constitution, we ought to render the gilt c rin-
glets by enabling the Australians to manage their local
arra rs for themselves. lie concluded amidst cries of
" ll.vide."

sir G GREY said that, from the disposition the hr.use
had evinced to divide, it was not likely that he was about
to enter on the wide field of discumion to which the last
speech invited. The simple question before the house was,
that the bill be now recommitted. The clauses proposed to
define imperial colonial questions, to give to the colonial
legislature a powtr of drating with colonial questions, and
to reserve to the Queen in council the right of exercising
certain privileges. Now, the hon. gentleman who had
spoken lest appeared to misapprehend the argument of his
right hen. friend (Mr. Labouchere). He stated that the go-
vernment admit ed the principle of leaving the colonists to dial
with local question., and he seemed to think there was street
inconsistency in admitting that principle and opposing these
clauses. But the clauses showed the impracticability of put•
ting in an act of puliament such a definition of imperial and
local questions as was now proposed; for thrre was saki me
veguehess and uncertainty in Chet definition. Besides, the
power proposed to be given to the council could cot be safely
exercised because it would involve perpetual questions tit
doubt. lie thought with his right hon friend (Mr. Laboe-
chere) that this question lay within a very narrow compess—
that it did not, therefore, require a speech of half an hour'e
duration in reply : and he hoped that, under the circum-
stances, the house would net consent to give such a defini-
tion of powers as would neither be clear nor practical.
(Hear, hear )
Mr. GLADSTONE thought it desirable to rid thi-
country from responsibility respecting matters over
which we could sot exercise a serviceable control. He
thought the question should be minutely examined by per-
sons of the highest legal acumen, in order to see whether
we might not make a strict enumeration of the cases in which
we ought to interfere, se as to leave to the colony an un,
limited discretion in all the rest, and thereby get rid of •
great por.ion of the machinery of our administrative depart-
ment which bad been of necessity worked in this country in
a way that caused the most painful divisions.
The house then divided, when then appeared,
For Sir W. Moleswortb'e motion
Against it
Mr. GLADSTONE then roes to bring forward the lion
of which he had given eotice, consisting of a clause and
several provisos on the framing and construction of which
he prayed for a lenient consideration by the law officers of the
crown, and the subject of which he much regretted her Ma-
jesty's goy. rnment had not thought proper to include in the
bill. The clause he wished to propose enabled them to
give the sanction of parliament to the proceedings of the
members of the church in Australia upon a looting of
voluntary and private compact, It was as follows:
And whereas doubts hare existed ss to the right@ and privileges of
the bishops, clergy, and other members of the United Church of Eng-
land and Ireland, in regard to Me management of the internal affairs
thereof in the said Weak* be it matted, that it shall be lawful for
the bishop or bishops of say diocese, er Ma sters. in the said colonies,
or in any colony which her Majesty shall, by order in council, declare
to be joined to them for the purposes neat bweinalter described, and
the clergy and lay permos, neteg declared members of the church of
England, or being otherwise in communion with him or them respec-
tively, to meet together from time to time, and, at such meeting, by
mutual cement, or by a majority of voices of the said clergy
and laity, severally and respectively, with the assent of the said
bishop, or of a majorityof the said bishops, if more than one, to make
all such regulations as maybe necessary for the better conduct of their
ecclesiastical affairs, and fur the holding of meetings for the sad
purpose thereafter.
The house ought well to understand that the system of
an established religion did not prevail in those colonies for
soy useful, intelligible, or rational purpose ; but that it it
prevailed at all it was for no ether purpose than that of en-
cumbrance and vexation, of impediment to law and order,
and of disturbance to the IC i de and feelings of men by in
troducing confusion where pule* and harmony ought to pre-
vail. He, therefore, called upon the house not to take upon
itself the responsibility of saying what the system of church
discipline should be in Australia, but simply to untie the
hands of those of our fellow-subjects in that colot,y who
were members of the same religion as by law established in'.
this country, who had carried the principles of that
religion into those distant lands, bat who were divested 1
of every privilege which we were by law er -
titled to, and debarred of every advantage con-
(erred by our civic rights and freedom as Englishmen.
The right hon. gentleman then read and explained the
following provisos :
Provided always, that It shall not be lawful to impose or Inflict, by
any snob regulation, any temporal or pecuniary penalty or disability
other than smeh as may attach to the avoidance of any once or bene-
fice held Ja the said church.

---Prodded also, that no such regulation rail be binding on any per-
ms or preens other than the said bishop no bishops, and the clergy
and the lay pergola within the said colonies who an or may be declared
member of the church of England, or otherwise la communion with
him or them respectively.
Pnvided also, that any Bush regulation, touching the existing re-
lation of the said Whops, clergy, and others, to the OletrOpolitaa ere
of Canterbury, shall be forthwith transmitted by the residing
bishop, or Ws deputy, to the archhe of the wild see, and shall be
object to dleallowance by the sold hish under his hand and
seal, at any time Elitist II months from the paring et the said verm-
illion, or within six molar from the ressipt thereof by the sa.d
&refilled), bat not afterwards.
Provided also, that It shell not be onspetent to the said bishops,
clergy, and lay persons. or any of than, to pas say verdaiiln
sleeting the rights of the crown in the nosalaat of Whom, with-
out the consent of her Majesty's grillage Seetetat7 of State tar the
(blank. _

lied Ids; that ao such regulation made ea aforwald stun au-
thorise the huhop of any diocese to confirm or conmerate, or to or.
data, limme, or l tate, say nuns to say see, or to any peened
Merge or other selecotsai a delriMl oaks, esoept upon such parsons
harlot Immediately before taken the mils of allegiamo to her Ma-
jesty, and basing Ukewise =bombed the articled of the united Church
ftertand ond 'rebind, sad declarod unfeigned area and con-
sent to the Hook of QWWI3OII Prayer.
It should be borne iu mind that they were not dealing
with the church so it existed generally) in the cohmier, to-
rte's the rtsto of the church in one e don y rtiffer..d as touch
from that of another colony as the state of the church in en
of tho colonks differed from what it was at home. In the
West Indies it was in the condition of a quasi establishment.
In our North American colonies, it was split by differences,
and so on. VI hat they had to look to was the religion, con-

, v..,N, P.

rilfioa of our Australian eolonies; end it was with reference
to this ifondillos that he made this motion. Religious
equally was the( ground: en which he did so. In
inettalia.the churl* was salaried. The sums which the
stabs; allowedlor the milldam/mu of religions were divided
gayly and a:lely according to the respective 'seniors of the
Mayon religions communities. They were sums which
bellmesed to no periods: beet, but were open alike to all
prellessioos included in the colony. Now it was not jest
that the mentla.rs of one of these professions should be left
lender disabilities that did not affect the others. It wens
cue et great urgency, because they could not venture to I
play pranks with the church in her present condition—they
could not afford to exhibit any longer teat conteapteous
neglect of her interests which was sure to proclaim a great
practical grievance; and • great practical gri did
*gist in the state of the church in our eolontes.
First with regard to the endowment of churches in New
South Wales, Van Diemen's Land, South Australia, and
Western Anetralia. The ore of Western Australia was in-
sigaticant. In that of Southern Australia, he believed,
there was no eadoweent, and the gist of the oar, lay in
New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land 1 bat as the two
systems that prevailed in these colonies were so near akin,
he would take them se if they were the seem The pre-
visions of the law respecting endowment were these. When
a aortal* number of admitted persons, declaring
themselves to belong to a chrlatian communion, assembled to
become a congregation, and subscribed a certain amount,
then the state should step in, and aid them by a correspond-
ing contribution. It was next provided that no salary
should be paid to any clergyman unless appointed according
to the usages of the religion of the congregation so assem-
bling. The third provision was, that it should be in tie
power of the executive government to make inquiry into the
conduct of sty clergyman so appointed, and to discontinue
payment of his salary if found that he was not engaged and
occupied as agreed on. Such was the sort of stipendiary es-
tablishment that existed in the colonies. It took no cog-
nisance of one church more than another, excepting
that the three churches of England, Scotland, and
Rome were mentioned by name as constituting nearly
the whole of the population. The co.onial law
was just and equal in this respect, that it did
not interfere witn any religion end wouid not
pay • stipend to any clergyman until confirmed by the
law. There was, however, this difference in their condition,
but it was one with which he did not wish to interfere, and
of which he did not complain,
_namely, that the appointments
themselves in the church of England lay with the governor
respecting that church alone. There was a right of nominal
transfer of ecclesiastical law from this country to our colony,
but a more complete delu'ion and imposture than that
transfer it would be difficult to conceive. He did
not believe there was a single point of ecclesiastical
law in England except ono of which we had the power to
enforce the observance in Australia. Waatever was dor.e
there was done by the good will, sense of propriety and good
feeling of the parties. We found our own law respecting
church discipline so defective that we had to amend it lately
by an act of Parliament ; but that act was of no force in the
colony. Blackstone in discussing the application of the
principle to a colony pointed out that the jurisdiction of
ecclesiastical courts from the nature of the case could net be
held applicable to a colony. The machinery by which the
law wee to be applied was therefore swept away. Then
we had endeavoured to come in with some supplementary
provision. We sent rut bishops, with power to Itlolllloll
witnesses and administer oaths, and to act without restraint,
except on an appeal to the Archbishop of Canterbury. It
would actually be found that, under a succession of patents,
her Majesty had committed a succession of acts of illegalit
by confernng powers wirch only required to be objec•ed to
in order to be condemns'. A zealous prelate in Van Die-
mob's Land, wishing to have a legalised system awarded
to the colony, desired the establishment of consistorial courts.
The members of other denominations objected. The matter
was brought before the law officers of the crown, and they
found it was their duty to declare that her Majesty's own
act was illegal. Therefore these powers were perfectly null
and valueless, as was on the other hand the corrective of
these powers, the appeal to the Archbishop of Canterbury.
What was the position of the bishop in these colo.
nies ? He would begin with him, not only because he was
the first entitled to consideration, but because his position
was the best_ The bishop had a very large power in his
hands. But he had not the kind of power he ought to have.
If he took the executive power of Russia, which was not
limited at all, and took the e xecutive power of this country,
which was limited, he found that the executive power of this
country was greater than that of Russia. And if they took
the bishop and placed him under limitations, he would
have really more power. He had not the meat aof doing
good, whereas on the other hand he had the power of ibffict-
ing great evils. The bishop had co power to do justice as a
judge, he had no power to call witnesses to give evidence of
misconduct. If he were to call witnesses before him, and
they were willing to come, be apprehended there would be
the greatest fear of those witnesses that they would be open
to an action for libel, for there would be nothing whatever
to prevent the clergymen accused from &Meg back on the
general laws of his country with regard to any statement
respecting his character. And though the cliarges alleged
might be true, yet the wienetses might be open to an action
for defamation for the charges that th.y tussle. Still the
bishop had great power. No clergyman could officiate is the
colony without the license of the bishop, and it was entirely
within the breast of the bishop to issue that license or to re•
yoke it. And he could refuse to render any account to any
human being of his reasons for refusing to issue, or
for revoking when issued. That was the arbitrary
power, and the only power, subsisting in the church
in the Australian colonies. And the revs king of the license
carried with it the loos of the stipend. Now, the church in
Van Diemen's Land, and he thought also in New Son h
Wales, are of three climes, but there was no material diffe-
rence between them as far as this owe was concerned.
There were the old colonial chaplains, there were the chap-
!sins who had been appointed under the preterit church
acts ; and, lastly, there were the missionary clergy, who
had been sent out by the Society for the Propagation
of the Gospel, and who were likewi.e subject to the absolute
control of the bishop. But on all these substantialy
the law operated alike. They talked of the transference of
English ecclesiastical law, but the English ecclesiastical
law recognised the beetefint of a clergyman as nis (Toehold. But
in the colonies there was absolutely no such thing. There
was a gentleman of the name of Wigmore, whose licenco
was suspended by the bishop, whether rightly or wrongly it
was not necessary now to inquire : it was suspended by the
bishop on the grour d of repeated insolvenciee, at d diver s other
features in his conduct which the bishop conceived to be in-
consistent with his duties. This gentleman went to the Supreme
Court ins Van Diemen's Land to obtain a rule nisi. And
perhaps he should be told that that court had eeelesiastical
jurisdiction; but that was not so ; it had jurisdiction for
temporary purp7ses only. He went to this court to obtain a
rule nisi for the Bishop of Van.Diemen's Land to show cause
why he had revoked his license. The court refused to grant
the rule, and declared themselves totally incompetent to
interfere, on the simple ground that the bishop hal a right I
to grant a license sic so/o, and to revoke it sic role. I
And what was the position of the bishop ? The bishop fout.el
that if he observed the forms of justice he might invclve
himself in great difficulties. It he rave a publi hearing he
might ho liable himself in a hundred ways to actions on civil
grouods, and the witnesses would be liktwise subject to
actions. And so there was a large and an exceptional power
in the hands of the bishop, who could not follow the ordinary li
forms of justice lest he himself should be called over
the coals in the Supreme Court for what he did.
But let them pus by the case of the delinquent clergyman,
and assume the ease of an oppressed clergyman. What was
he to do? Was he to appeal to the Archbishop of
Canterbury ? A man with a salary of 2001. ayear
was no: in a condition to undertake a voyage home to
prefer an appeal to the Archbishop of Canterbury
He did not think there was any means by which any clergy-
man, who was oppressed by his bishop, could have any legal
redress. Then, what was the condition:of the laity ? The laity
were just in the same condition ; they had no resort for redress
whatever. Now be held tlaaqhe was strictly correct in making
this application to parliament, and in no other quarter.
Remade it at this time, because they now professed to be deal
ing for the last time with the local affair, of the
Australian colonies. This was a subject strictly for local
legislation. (Hear, hear.) He asked them to give the
power to men who had shown themselves com-
petent to use it. If they could show him that they
had at this moment • superior system, he was
only speaking of the internal condition of the
English church ; if they could show him that it was agree-
able to the principles of religious truth to the principles of
order, that it world give security to right and redress to
wrong, then he granted them that his proposition fell to the
ground. If they could show him that there was a better
mode of attaining his end he was willing to hear it; but do
nut let them by assumed objections, by raising imaginary
fears, by urging the state of church law at home, throw
over a plan which he placed before them in great confi-
dence, and with equal coolidence in every ground whe-
ther be was to consider them as pledged by their habits
and dispositions to the assertion of principles of order, or
whether he was to consider them as pledged by their love
of the principles of freedom. (Cheer.)
The clause having been road by the clerk at the table,
Mr. GLADSTONE said he wished to offer one word in
explanation. He thought it would be moat convenient to
the house, as those provisoes would he easily settled, each
relating to a separate enactment, if the enacting put were
put separately, and then the remainder might he separated
into clauses, by simply putting the words " And be it en-
acted" before each. He also wished to stare, with regard
to the words " declared member of the church of England,"
that he had introduced them with reference to the state of
law in the colonies, there being local aces under which the
members of the church of England were required to declare
themselves such.

Mr. LABOUCURRE said it was upon no small points of
difference, still less upon any legal difficulty, that he should
advies the house not to consent to the proposition of the
right hon. gentleman ; hat because he strongly objected to
toe very principle of that:proposition. Whatever its inten-
tions, the effect would be to constitute an eccleeiastical synod
In these colonies, with the power of making laws hue/pectic('
of the colonial legislatures of the imperial parliament, which
laws would be oblige-my upon the member. of the church
of England within the colonies. (lieu, hear.) A proposal
so serious ought to be entertained as a separate measure, and
gravely and deliberately considered, and not engrafted upon
• bill professing very different objects, and dealing with
entirely different matters. As t 3 the constitution of
the proposed synod, the principle was aoknowledged that
laymen might be members ; and the crown was to have the
power of rejecting or confined' g its canons. lle did not un
derstand whether this synod was to co mist of • single body
—bithaps, clergy, and laity, all sitting end discussing these
iliemion% together, or whether there were to he two or more
nodies, the clergy sitticg sep ly from the laity. If it
was to be one assembly, composed et all the members of the
church of England, he, as • member of that church, should
very much object to questions of the kind proposed being
discussed and decided by a tumultuary assemblage of that

description, and he should very much doubt whet er that
dthwisoeuliduewteedr
enidnqtoanutit hileiocinwiegelnoftefiar einopag
sir
po •
ihistuedhoutwroc
which
in the
rtaohretge
ought
inn:i tuts to .
nAbli
11 an act with which it had no necessary eonnexi .n. gie
objection to the plan was a fundamental one; he objected
to laws being made by any ether body but the
I local legislatures or the imperial parliament; end he ob.
jetted altogether to these laws or regulations being made be
a body which was neither one nor the other, but an ecclesi•
medal synod composed on principle. which he bilieved were
altogether unknown in the history of Christendom ; for he
did not believe that such a synod had ever been heard or
thought of before. The policy of establishing tech siestieslc.urte
was matter of extreme doubt; and tbe grievances which a ffeeted
the members of the church of England might be remedied
I without them, by the action of the local legislatures them-
selves. lie had been a little alarmed to hear from such an
authority as the right hon. gentleman the doctrine which
he had propounded in an earlier pert of the evening, when
he had declared himself ready to vote fora clause Ix the
good operation of which he could not answer, merely
bemuse 114 thought it a subj,ct that required I, egioe.,
don. That would be a most dangerous principl- for
the house to adopt ea matters of this amporfence.
But his objections were lea to the details than to
the principle of the measure itself. To attempt to estab-
lish an these colonies a body of this hied, cell it an eeclesiar-
tical synod, or whatever they chose, with power to
make regulations having the effect of law over
members of the church of England, so far from
doing any good to the church, increasing religious
principler, of enlarging its sphere of usefulness in the
colonies, would, on the contrary, excite the greatest ditap-
probation; the colonial legislatures would feel that suhjents
which properly belonged to them were withdrawn from
their investigation and decision ; and a tribunal would he
established which would be fraught with inconvenience, and
would give rise to injurious consequences to the church
itself.

Mr. B. HOPE supported the motion, and argued that the
members of all other denominations, the Wesleyan., the
preehyterians, and the Roman Catholics, were able to prevails
for the administration of their req. c• ive ecclesiastical :dein,
then why not the established church ?
Mr. C. ANSTEY was convinced that the chnrch
eased self-contained powers amply sufficient to secure the
due sdministration of her affairs, spiritual as well lA t-at
pored, and therefore opposed any legislative interfere-ace
with, nr addition to, thou powers.
A division was here called for, and the gallery cleared;
but, after • briet exclusion, strangers were re-admitted, aed
the debate was continued Ay
Mr P. WOOD, who dwelt upon the high and mud
duties devolving lino* the church, the strength it yie Med to
the state, and the education it undertook to afford to the
people. lie wished that the state in return should cntri-
bute all possible aid to the church, and then (ore eupported
the motion.
Mr. ROEBUCK said the proposition, under an ap.
pearance somewhat mysterious, was really en UZI
portant one. They had to deal with what the
proposition called the united aurches of England
cud Ireland in the colonies. Every person uneenteod
what was meant by the united church of England awl Ire-
land. It was subject to certain laws, and *need e.rtain
high privileges and powers in this country. (Hear, le ar.)
But there was a party in the country who wished to deal
with that church in a way that they (the house) "toed not
permit. (Hear, hear) What did that party wish? ?hey
wished to have • church, called the United Church cf Erg.
land and Ireland, and to have that church above the law.
(Hear, bear.) They wished to have a convocatien 'infra by
the side of parliament. (Hear, hear) They Lad put that
down heretofore, and they did not Intend it should ver be
revived, even by a side wind in the colonies. They ware not
' to be mystified out of their common senses in reference to the
proposition before them. (Hear, hi ar.) And u regarded
that proposition, he asked did any man in his common teems
expect that it should be attended to, and that a c evocation
should be there sitting by the side of the British parliament?
(Hear, hear.) But he believed there were mu so ic!rusted,
so thoroughly demented en church matters, that ttey wished
such • thing possible. (Hear, hear.) Now what were their
reason,? He believed they were two ia number. ;Hers
the hen. member read the resolutions of Mr. G:aehione,
which appear in the speech of that right hon. gentl man,
and then continued.] Now be ask. d hon. gentlemen to say
whether they intended by this course to elevate :her r. w
church to the position enjoyed by members of the disseniing
communities? Indeed he had been told by one hon. gond. mss
that he would be content to be pieced on a similar footing
with the jua.pers. (Laughter.) Yes, that had been told
him in that house. Wu it en? ( " Hear, hear," und laugh
Were the members of the United Church of England and
Ireland in the colony of Van Diemen's Land willing to di
vest thems Ives of all the characteristics of member, of that
church, and to place themselves on an equality with the
jumpers ? (Hear, hear, and • cry of '•Yes.' ) Oh, 'he hon.
member fur Oxford cried " Y.s." (Laughter.) Now let
him see how matters stood. First, they would have to strike
out the name " United Church of England and In land."
Then they became persons profilers anything they pleased,
and consequently could not be regarded as heirs of that
anent church. (Hear, hear.)They should be regarded simply
as a body of dissenters meeting together for certain
religious purposes, and therefore he was at • loss to
know why parliament should enact anything at al: in re-
' Terence to them. (Hear, hear.) They were going to create
a legislature which would have power over weaker sects.
The only body of churchmen with whom they could i aye
eympathy was that body recognised by the united chur hes
of Eagland and Ireland. (lieu, hear.) Let them once
establish that which the resolutions of the right hon. gentle-
man sought. and there would he en end of their uci•ed
churches of England and I reland,whilst there woul I also be,
epeely attainment of the separadon of church an i etc:.
(Hear.) He found the high church party—those who w• re
supereminently and peculiarly the church party, wro car-
ri•cl on • warfare in reference to certain fantastic cerem
all of • sudden coming forward and crying out f.r a et .te
of medievel excellence. Yet, what was their a
of it ? Why they appealed to America; but what dsel "ley
find there: no church establishment whatever. ells sr,
hear.) An ulna toleratl'n of and freedom to ail
(Hear, heat.) lie had fought the question too ceten in that
hou.e, not to know there were constant yearly par
ments for the purposes of the church of Beg I
and he could not understand why a France f
that church should be made separate and iedepe....lee:
of the united churches of England and Ireland. yet. de-
riving support from that Rowe, which it ought not, as en ac•
dependent community, though connected in rase and c'.:,-
racteristics with the English church. He denied that name
and character ; and if asked what he believed the C)Mall-
pity to be, be would reply an independent commLnity of
religionists ; and hence there was no necessity for a pros.s,.
(Hear, hear.) First, as an independent body, they needed
not the support, by proposition, of that house; and rue
cause, like the jumpers, they wished to be affected by stru:lar
legislation. (Laughter.) How was the colony at Van
Deemen's Lend to deal with that bendy ? He had been t
there were three religious bodies recognised, tLe ctxrab
of Rome, tler church of England, and the church of S.:-
land; but the present sect did not come under tither re:-.;.-
ous category. (Hear, hear.) However, there were of tee
sect certain fantastic religionise who wished to fee con-
sidered somethieg pa-euliar in themselves, who aspired to the
characteristics of an ancient community, while% at the
same time, claiming all the lib-rty of the moot modern
religious commuiiity. (Hear, hear.) But he k Mr. Roe-
buck) could tell them they would be one thins or the
other. (Hear, hear ) They belonged to the church of
England, or they did not. (Hear, hear.) If they belonged
to the church cf England, they should submit to its
ordinances. Hear, hear ) If net, let them call them-
selves dissenter,, and he (Mr. Roebuck) would be the
first to demand protection, freedom, and liber y
for them, and to help them to anything else they might die,
however. ridiculous.

Mr. R. PALMER treated the opposition to the motion u
an attack upon the establishment. He enlarged upon the
importance and dignity of the established church, and gave
twiny historical details of the convocation anti cher organic
institutions, by aid of which the spiritual powers assigned to
that church had been at various times promulgated slid main-
tained. Convocations had, from a variety of cause., become
obsolete in England, but the state of many of our c..lonies
very urgently demanded the establishment of those eccle-
siastical assem►lies.

Sir 0. GREY said he had certainly not anticipated th..!
the 1113106 involved a discussion on the important
question of the relations which existed between the
Established Church and the State. (Hear, hear.) 110
did not concur in the wish of the honoural,:e
and learned member for Sheffield to aee a dieunion
between church and state—(shears)—but anxious ao he via
to see the church an instrument of extended And lucre ling
usefulness amongst all classes of the ezminunity, be could
not help on that occasion, as the subject had peen advert"'
to, expressing his deep regret at the course which had been
recently takea by some members of that church—(;,4ld
cheers)—a course which had led to proceedings
tending to exhibit the church in a state of disunion.
thereby to diminish its efficiency and usefulness. t"
hear," and cheers.) Like the hon. and leased gentleman
(Mr. Roebuck), he confessed that be had some difficulty in
understanding the motion. (Laeghter.) He appeure3•
however, to be staking on behalf of one sommunion privi-
leges and powers which belonged to no other
=union. Netwithstanding the right hon. pp sideman 'a
disavowal, he must say that 'lto thought he cut
ask for the clergy and bishops in the colonies autheriy (toe
parliament to constitute a legislative body, with power. to
make regulations which mould be binding not only des roe.)
conscieslie, but also in the colonial courts of law. Ile was
confirmed in that opinion by the provisos of which he hail
given notice al qualifications of his motion. There no. 'li'
proviso that in a certain ease the royal prerogative should
not be infringed, implying that in all the ca,er not
'scented it aught be infringed. (hear, hear )
Again, the dispensation of patronage was to be rulleet to
the allowance, not of the crown, hut of the Arehbisoop of
Canterbury. In fact, more extensive legislative powers than
those proposed he (Sir O. Orgy) could hardly conceive.
and he did not know how the right hon. gentleman con./
disavow the intention of investing this body with !cordate.e
authority, when it was to be independent on the or hand
of the crown, and on the other of the colonial legislature.
(Hest.) Either the motion involved the dangerous pri,
of conferring extensive powers on one particular rchgt us
community in the colony, contrary to the spirit of front
legislation with regard to it, or the tight 1".
gentleman was invoking the aid of parliament
..to
do that which Lhasaparties could do Talon:at i.e•
It had been hinted that there was souse special dis‘bdite.
If there were any disability, let the parties toner ell to
placed on an equal footing with colter communions., t t
not parliaroent give them any spirt il and peculate privileges
ender the specious pretence of relieving them from a 410
ability. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ADDERLEY briefly controverted the assumptoe
that the privileges to be accorded to the established church

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