The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-12-07 00:00:00

INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS.

The proceedings of this committee contained four charges
against the band-master, the first of which was withholding
10s; secondly, taking two boys into a public house and giv-
ing them drink ; thirdly, refusing to attend the governor ;
and fourthly, for being drunk and using abusive language.
There was also a recommendation that the band-master
shfuld be dismissed. The proceedings also contained a re-
solution to the effect that the infants and their teachers
recently sent from the workhouse to the schools should be
sent back. _ _ _

Mr. GARDNER moved the confirmation of the proceedings,
with the exception of that part relating to the band-master.
Mr. SUMNERS : In connection with the explanation given
by Mr. Came on behalf of Mr. Heath relative to the Indus-
trial Schools, remarked that he understood Mr. Heath had
no intention of disparaging the Industrial Schools, but he
merely wanted to throw in a little bit of high coloring.
Mr. JOHNSON hoped when the committee met if the facts
were such as were disclosed in the minutes relative to the
band-master, they would value the moral bearing and the
moral influence of such a man amongst such a number of
children rather than teaching music. If he had been guilty
of such conduct he ought to be dismissed.
The CHAIRMAN : Taking two boys and giving them
drink—is that proved ?
Mr. Moss remarked if this charge was exparte it was
cruel that it should be sent forth to the public without being
substantiated. He objected altogether to the proceedings of
the industrial school's committee at their last meeting.
According to the standing orders of the vestry three mem-
bers were registered, but he found that there were only two
in attendance, the Chairman and Mr. Crawford, and that
those two gentlemen proceeded to the transaction of the
business. The whole of the proceedings then fell to the
ground. The band-master was an old " Waterloo man,"
and he did now and then get a little elevated in celebrating
that great victory ; but as to taking the children into a
public house, let them hear what he had to say.
Mr. DEN'roN feared that he had commemorated too many
victories.
Mr. BRADLEY asked if those proceedings were not in
proper course, would the children be sent from that school
back to the workhouse ?
Mr. GARDNER stated that they had already come ; and
the board could confirm the proceedings of any number in
committee.
The CHAIRMAN : Yes.
Mr. GARDNER : If the committee had not proceeded to
business, it would have been blamed.
Mr. CARNE seconded the confirmation of the proceed-
ings.
The CHAIRMAN remarked that even if there were three
members present the proceedings would not be legal until
they were sanctioned by that board; and even were the
proceedings brought before them by one member, they could
confirm them if they pleased, and if they did so it was just
the same as if there was a proper quorum.
Mr. Moss : Then the standing orders amount to nothing
whatever.
The CHAIRMAN : Allow me—
Mr. Moss : I will listen to you with the greatest pleasure,
if you allow me. (Laughter.)
The CHAIRMAN : Have we any standing orders ?
Mr. Moss : I think so. Three members are required for
the transaction of business. Three members must be pre-
sent in committee, and five at this board, to form a quorum,
and if there are not five members present you cannot pro-
ceed to business.

_
The CHAIRMAN : You are perfectly right as to the five,
because that is a matter of statute law. We cannot trans-
act any business at this board unless five members are present.
But there is no standing order or by-law to my know-
ledge, necessitating the presence of three to form a quorum
in committee.

Mr. Moss : That is your opinion, but in the council it is
invariable
The CHATamAN : I am on my legs, Sir; sit down.
Mr. Moss : I thought you were about sitting when I rose,
and then you rose again. (Laughter.)
The CHAIRMAN : Yes, Sir, and I will continue to rise.
You say that is mynpinion. It is not my opinion ; it is the
fact. There is no by-law necessitating the presence of
three members on a committee.
Mr. Moss : Then I am improperly instructed by the vestry
clerk.
Mr. HART : There is no written by-law ; but committees
usually do not go to business unless three members are
present.
Mr. Moss : Then the usage is the law.
The CHAIRMAN: There is no by-law; but what the
statute law is, Mr. Gardner has very properly laid down,
namely, that what is brought before us by one member of a
.committee, if auctioned by the board becomes law. I lay
that down as the law from Mr. Gardner's mouth.
Mr. BRADLEY thought it a pity to deviate from the usual
course.

The CHAIRMAN : That is another thing. Something
must be done. Unless orders were given for provisions, the
whole thing would have stopped. There would have been no
food for the children.
Mr. Moss : Your best course would be to read a lecture to
the absentees.
Mr. BRADLEY said coming to that portion of the question
rilatLvo tie cul ltea _ _

The CHAIRMAN : I beg your pardon. There is now a
question before us. Those proceedings are confirmed or
rejected. Is it your pleasure to confirm them or not.
Mr. BRADLEY : Before they were confirmed, he was going
to refer to the matter of bringing the children back from the
schools to the workhouse. The committee recommend them
to be brought back to the workhouse.
The CHAIRMAN : You can decide whether you will permit
that or not.
Mr. BRADLEY was going to say if the schools were not very
crowded, he thought it would be unwise at present to return
the children to the house, because he need not say there
was an impression in town that cholera was becoming
prevalent. It was manifesting itself, he was sorry to say,
near the north end of the town in such a way there was no
knowing how soon they might require the full accommoda-
tion of this establishment, and he thought at present it
nceetcalltyilonlitriCaTleLarliirkciale, and
all overcrowded, and, therefore, he did not see the
raaadttliigyu*tvge
necessity of their removal at the present moment.
Mr. GARDNER said it was in consequence of a resolution
come to by the workhouse committee, that the children had
been sent back. The infants were lodged in the infirmary,
and it was thought better to send them back.
Mr. BRADLEY : Surely they were not sent back before this
passed the board ?
Mr. HART : They are come.
Mr. CARNE : Perhaps they would allow him to explain
why those children had been sent. The children brought
into workhouse had no school to go to, as all the masters
and mistresses were sent away, and, therefore, it became im-
perative on the governor either to send all the children as
they came in up to the industrial schools, or they should
have sent back the teachers sent there to look after the chil-
dren coming in. Therefore, they thought it right the in-
fants should be sent back in order thatthe teachers might look
after those coming in ; but at the same time they left it at
the option of the school committee, only to send back such
children as they thought advisable.
The CHAIRMAN remarked that the children could be sent
back in two hours.
The proceedings were then confirmed, with the exception
of that part relating to the band-master. There is to be a
further inquiry into the charges preferred against him. On
the suggestion of Mr. Bradley it was agreed that should the
medical relief committee deem it advisable they should be
at liberty to remove the children at once. The following
report from the government inspector of schools was then
read :
" I have again to report that the boys under the charge
of Mr. Haggar have passed a very creditable examination,
and distinguished themselves both by their information and
general intelligence.
" The state of the girls is also creditable ; but they are
not equal to the boys. The infants under the charge of
Miss Hilton are, I think, well managed.
" The children who have lately come from the Liverpool
workhouse are not equal to the others, but this could not be
expected under the circumstances. Ido not doubt that they
will nod improve rapidly.
" The staff of teachers in this establishment is greater at
present than is necessary. I believe that three schoolmis-
tresses are sufficient for the girls' school, with the teacher of
the infants ; and five masters for the boys', although the
number of boys at present is unusually large. The salaries
of all the teachers in such an establishment as this are pay-
able from the parliamentary grant; but these payments are
made on the understanding that such persons are bona fide
teachers—regularly and constantly engaged in teaching, and
not servants.

" I hope that no offices of a menial character will be re-
quired from the teachers. The services of efficient persons
cannot be permanently secured if duties are required from
them which have no reference to teaching, and which a ser-
vant might discharge equally well. The time of such a staff of
teachers, as I have mentioned, would be fully occupied here ;
but some of the masters might easily superintend the field-
work of the boys, if a greater extent of land should be taken
for that purpose, while the mistresses would superintend
the knitting and needlework of the girls, with the assistance
of a sewing mistress.
" I hope that the board will consent to the appointment
of five boys and two girls as pupil teachers. It appears that
two boys, late pupil teachers, have been dismissed for fight-
ing. I believe that those persons who have been most suc-
cessful in the management of boys have usually treated
offences of this character with lenity, while they have
punished stealing, lying, and every kind of baseness with
great severity. It is not possible to prevent quarrelling
amongst boys, and I submit that a boyish quarrel ought
not to be injurious to a man's future progress in life. If
the board should think it necessary to dismiss a pupil teacher
hereafter, I have to request that the circumstances may first
be communicated to the Committee of Council on Education.
"A refractory ward would, I think, be very useful here
for the punishment of petty offences.
" J. B. bRowNR, Inspector of Schools.

" Nov. 23rd, 1853."

" I have inspected the schools, and have much pleasure
in remarking that good school-rooms have been provided for
the girls and infants.
" The children have as yet unavoidably made but little
progress, as they have generally been but a short time in
attendance. _

" J. B. BROWNS, Inspector of Schools.

" December sth, 1853."

Mr. GARDNER. remarked with regard to the boys who had
been dismissed for fighting, that they had been before the
committee for general bad conduct, and this was the winding
up of the affair.