The Express.
London, England, 1857-06-20 00:00:00

FENING JUNE 20 1857.

Mang the rem se to be k danger of failing, it was to be
Wt wad parliament MiLedretildi take ma, for the
re futu, that unless It wee neemay, there Auld
be no expenditure inentred beyeled the am Mak sod if
there was that en explanatory Me shoed,' be allied to the
next year's a...berates.
The amendment was that ellidirown, and the vote was
armed to.
Iheto a vote woo 26,0881. Ilerlatre of public offices.
Col .uel BOLDERO Maud tint there were various
Roue foe furniture for lb. wider military department',
amounting to some thumb d funds. Putting these
mime into the civil estimates wee Net dealing Leidy by the
public.
The vote wee then agreed to.
The next vote wee 74,7811. tom. m up the amend of
116,7811. for keeptag la repair Mt eryliperks and Ow=
grounds.
Mr. BENTINCK aumi WM ebb w. .by 11.11111.
He ead kit would waseaneMeeklient ibe =it
expos/beg peak mot* ilia ■ vas
but Mudd ael meiembeal bar dedift 1.14
&hued NM by enc pseelaßip be Ms awe
gooey. Ner me ilt Mee fur rwalleambrall it mamental
. The areal Mewl.' far Ih. aced
re lake in et leues's-park, levellks ai wiateeing
the bottom, intercepting the lead &Waage, and shekilat
well, and refilling the lake with pure water, weel
and he moved that the sum to be voted be reduced by
amount.
Sir B. HALL (who spoke mid continual cries frees the
benches behind heroof " Speak up ") mid it was true that
the work. complained of had an ornamental edict, but never
thelees it was not the lees Me that they wen undertaken
and carried out with sanitary (Neck. It wee abeeintely
necessary, ie a &eatery point of view, that thin work should
be undertaken, and he Mote* hoped the committee would
agree with him that in the come be had taken he had been
actuated by proper motives. He trusted no member would
think he could be so itervient as to mappens that he could
override the privilege. at parliament. He believed it was
necessary that this work should be uodertakeu, end as an op-
portunity offered for carrying it out he hoped the committee
would think that he was wise in arming it out.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY nourked that the expenditure
for parks, which wee 68,0001. in 1866, wee 116,0001 this
year. He complained that that. wee a charge of 3,48 W. foe
die sewer for St. James's, the vote for it having bean 8081.
Sir IL HALL defended the Item.
Mr. PlGOTT;complained of some of the detalli, sad said
that, the right hen. baronet had spent too much massy in
too short a space of time.
Mr. H. BERKELEY thanked the right hon. baronet for
the sanitary meaeure which bed teen attacked by the bon.
member fur Norfolk. He hod It been the best authority, that
at a certain period of the year there was away' fever In
Carlton-garMs, and the entatilation of pure water had re-
moved that danger.
Mr. K. SE\ MER was net yet emits Miami shout the
cows In Hyde-peek. (A MA.) Re wished to know if
the right honeouble berme was pram& to
with the 'sag
ke their reenoveL thanghtamiT
eupply astatine Moly pereleind by the keg gem sad
other incomelsoces—(a the geemace of
the cows.
Mr. SLANEY warmly sppromidef the lots elbasliona in
the parks, which had Mama both Mk lonklefeMes and
their beauty.
Sir J. PAKINOTON ededdel that the not Cm-
minnow, of Weeks bad shows geed laole and Judgmat
in his alterations in the perk, ka:be hoped the den hos.
baronet would not lON debt of the Waage of .
Take= instance, the lodge about Jobe made at
GbmMlssd-
gate which might be built for 3001, was eet down at 1,3001
f hese works might be valuable, but they might be bought
too dear.
Sir B. HALL had always endeavoured to curtail the ex-
pense, and believed that the money had been Buda to go s•
far as possible. The outran fat the lodge at Cumberbad-
gate had been submitted to dye eminent builders, and the
work had been given to the lowest tender. with rasped to
the works at Marlborough-hem, the M. ember kr
Cardigan had mid, that if • perm he mid um wen per-
mitted to send in a tender, the mot woad b• dens.
Thew bad been put oat to tewkr, sad kao
that the perean named by the hon. member mat la the
tender. (A laugh.)
After an observation Been Sir P. Sunsioan,
Sir J. TROLLOPt=I the vole, sad exprowed Ids
high approval of the
Mr. BLACKBURN objected to the annul Ineresse of the
vote. A few yearn Mee 1t,,.. 80,0001., wham now it was
116,00 W. He thought the vats might be reduced by the
Mal of 17,0001.
Mr. BENTINCK ha=en generally called for, eon-
meted to withdraw hie
In answer to Mr. GLOOM,.
Sir B. HALL stated, the SA by which Battersea Park and
Bridge were formed contained a clues empowering • toll to
be taken firma Namurs over the bridge. Unless, there-
fore, parliament repeld that clause, the toll would have to
betakes.
Mr. BLACKBURN moved thet Mute be rednotd by the
SUM of 17,918/.
Mr. ALCOCK the toll over the sew
Chelsea-bridge. Irttuer:r.:l•Zrupon, it would lead to •
repetition of the " Rebecca" riots. Besides, the toll would
be a financial inlabke, ON it would reduce the vans of the
property to • greater mama thaw they would gain by the
impost. The • Rebecca" dotal In South Walla IMO quite
justified, and they were, moreover, quite successful. (Oh, oh.)
Mr. P. O'BRIEN appealed to Mr. Williams, as " the
.rarkcEan of the public puree," tortoise the vote fur Battersea

• —Ths— committee then divided en Mr. Blackburn's amend-
runt—
Ayes 66
Noes 2lO-144
The amendment was Chas bat .

Mr. DILLWYN than moved to redact the vote by
6.009!. 14e, the atm proposed to be panted for Battersea
Park. He thought that the amass of supporting that perk
should be defrayed out of the Moil miss.
Sir B. HALL reminded the boa. pother= that the park
was property belonging to the Mats, sad not to any bud
WEI LJ. SHELLEY mid that akbasita lbws might be •
prilernantary ekleollen to take MIN mar Mien Bridge,
wbot marmot had dim poribment mold undo. It was
abated to bop the pooh eat of the peak width bad bean
belied for them. lawn)
Mr. HENLEY saki tbsre woe ao doubt Mat Ms bridge
witibt to be open if that was possible; bat be Timid's! the
esmsdites that if it were made free all the !mho which
mkt to go over &darns Bridge would go over the new
bap ; and they would have to take cue that the park was
not cut to pima.
In enswir to Mr. Tres,
Sir B. HALL raid that about 125 acres of the land would
be sold or let on building
_Num A few days ago he bad
P. OVIt for 25 acres, fee upwards of 55,0001.
M said that than was • strong feeling in
the country %mina the ertnwegant espenditure for mere
metropolitan and them woo a prevailing opinion
that it was o in • great MOM* to the fact that the First
Commissioner of Works was • metropolitan member.
e, Oh, oh.")
The motion was then negatived without • division.
Mr. MACKINNON objected to the maintenance of the
new lodge at the Marble Arch. Two hundred people had
presented • petition in opposition to it.
Mr. B. HOPE said he bed never heard of a more ridi-
culous petition.
After a few words from Mr B. HALL,
The vote, aa originally proposed, was speed to.
On the motion of Mr. KLIMA;
The CHAIRMAN than repotted program, and the house
resume
THE
ROCHDALE ELECTION PETITION.
The SPEAKER et the Serment-at-Arms whe-
ther Mecca, Sr the Will
°aster Johnson and John
Lord bad bees amid apes Moat
The flergesss.4s-Asses mid that it had bean served, but
that Joim Lad_ eit,pmeLla elitanianne
Mr. H. Lad__
mid thM ham Lead was celled,
he eddied to put s mmetion to the Itpaker au a pot
Meter. He bead Sim the rubs sal mpLifous ol the
house, that as member we to ands • tritsura except
through the Itgeolms. UM min bid not bean beeveL
The SPEAKER mid the beammbie number a quite
owed is men dui the miss of tbe beim mind that
ramid beim& tbelmtb Imam; bat • ken&
behra Am* end prim bed as beta tor the
make d etameiones Si taaahms which
were supposed to be pg
Illr G. GILIT odd be emleed ISM Lod win la at-
lerbme, bat this beam we net. Mohr t 0.,. &sew
Mane be would owe GM NW Jaws, limbs boss
Aria with an crier to Mimi this home, sad barb(
asebotei to Mimi, be Wm into custody by the Serpent-
MArisk

Zdt--• 171 to.
IG. GREY then wined that JOllll Lord being in at-
tendance, in °bedlam to the ordst of this boom, should now
be called to • that the Ithashar siondd state to him the
chEacitsibig skald b• at liberty to my
111 Ide own dsthnith
seethe laving bra spud b-
John Laid was than mid Is ea bar.
The SPEAXII--thin lard, • detriment bas been
cede to the both that Perat brae pawky mai*
Waal Math* Mini the son of OIL to Woo bim to
p Y New Odom, at the papa re thole* as en
'Meths bane theitiedtheis eissthassmolline, usithat pe,
Jabs lad, was pent when the that elk this meth, and
endathested to lath= Sawa Beth you ray-
thing to s y In answer Y that shim* f
Lord-1 never ethagthail te Yrs Ma la p.
The SPELLER-14m yea anything **hat to say in
ranee to the sistessmt
Lerd—l MI beat Yth
wq
eig that If ha wished to p away,
ba woald pq AI
bred hit do with se kr at 501. That was t 6
tbeat whole .
The ittl '--111•1111 yot beer my that ?
Le4—ththrts.
The STELIZR—Jabs may withdraw.
Lard then withdrew
The ATTORNET-0 L would now state the
alum be Wended le mum Jehn Leal had Oath In sub-
stews that he rant dimpled is blase Isikenth le same
the oiler, bat that be led bowl Jahns= elm adds terms
to Bothwell if he veal& anamt le se le Ameba—
that s would. pay the wet et 111111. The path=
now MAW whether helm Ms the matter
amid be prened by that enemyr es ether body.
Tbe bents mast be
Wasmanatil:nielidleally etesteheektit
the irgeby itheth *a dr new in
Moth*, be should tigt ketber

questions la tag now put to him. lie wm an accusal patty,
m • certain extent he had denied the charge an& against
him ; aud If it wets thought desirable that any further ques-
tions should be pat to him he should be cautioned that he
might decline to answer soy qaestions tending to criminate
himself. On the whole' he thought it totter that
the matter should be referred to • select oom-
mitten, which was the coarse which bad been pursued
on medlar occasions in this h accusations had been made
...wing to a bleach of privilege. He would therefor.
move that further inquiry relating to the charge preferred by
Abraham lt,thwcll end Peter Johnson he reforest to •
select committee, with the usual directions to examine

witnerses on th;;Marge.
Mr. HENLEY thought that the most convenient Course
that meld be permed.
Sedum: RING LAKE aleo suppirte d the nint ion.
Mr. CIIZETIIAD said that before the motion was made
he wee Mott to ask permission to put a question to the wit-
ting teed* to criminate him. lie fully approved, how-
ever, of the Attorney-General's proposition.
Mr. BOWYER would like to know whether the course
recommended by the Attorney-General was in accordance
with the precedents of that house ? No doubt, in onlinary
proceedings at law, it was right that an accused person
should be (*idiom:et before any questions were put which
tended to criminate himself; but he apprehended that it
would very much narrow the power and privileges of
that house for It to be subjected to that rule.
The SPEAKER said the course proposed by the Atter-
ney-Osmetul was in accordance with precedent in • nee
something similar to the present one.
Mr. BOWYER said that many veers ego, in the ease of
the Duke of York, persons were esdlol before that house, and
had questions put to them which tended to criminate them-
*elves • and if he recollected rightly, they were nut
cautioned beforehand. Again, when Horse Tooke v.is asked
whether be woe the writer of an alleged libel, nn caution
had been addressed to him. It was true that by
a very ingenious device he battled the Louse.
Being seed by the Speaker whether be appeared
there as a party or as a witness, his answer was
as • party, adding that he put litemelf on the country. He
(Mr. Bowyer) thought that if the noose was bound by the
same strict roles that magistrates were subject to when se-
emed parties were before them, their powers would be too
roach narrowed. It might happen that questions would
have to be admiral to witnesses preparatory to an impeach-

met. - - -
Mr. CHEETHAM inquired whether John Lord had left
the bar in custody P
It was intimated that such was not the case.
The ATTORNEY.G ENERAL, adverting to the remarks
of Mr. Bowyer, said he conceived that in all mutters touching
'the privileges of that house, they were not bound to
abstain from requiring an answer to any quetion which they
might think proper to put ; but when there was an inquiry
touching a natter which not only involved a breach of the
privileges of that house, but which might oho amount to a
crime at common law, the house, out of indulgence as it were
and from a compassionate consideration of the individual:
conceded to the whims that he was not under an obligation
to answer questions that might criminate himself. He en-
tirely agreed with the bon. and learned member, that the
high prerogative A that house be preserced inviolate. With
regard to the question of the hon. member (Mr. Cheetbans), it
was undoubtedly desirable that some steps should be taken to
ensure John Lord's attendance before the select committee,
but he could entry that they were then in a position to
order that he should then be token into custody.
The motion was then agreed to.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL then moved that John
Lord be ordered to attend before the select committee.
Mr. CHEETHAM said that from information which he
possessed, he thought it of the greatest importance that be
should he ksept in custody.
Mr. BONER said that if there was to be any indulgence
towards the person who had been called to the bar he should
think it his duty to move that the matter be entered upon
the minutes, in order that it might not be drawn into a pro-
' codemt for the narrowing of its powers.
Mr. CHEETHAM moved that John Lord be taken into

Al;7.
Has. Mclean—He ha not in the be:.
Sir G. GREY doubted whether, after the statement of the
witness at the bar, they could take him into custody. It was
;24:1frrut "ranapperal?istr:en"tenwrinooTtplroe,
~ftfereggsm
it would be desirable that he should be interrogated upon
that point.
Mr. FITZROY said that before they could agree to the
amendment they must decide that John Lord 'lad been guilty
of • breech of privilege ; others ire they would he placed in
the anomalous position of ordering a man into custody against
whom Were was us charge.
Mr. BORMAN concurred in that view.
Mr. I. BUTT mid that when a person was charged with
a contempt in • court of law the court exami. him for
the pupae of ascertaining whether he had been guilty ef
the contempt or sot ; and he appreheaded that that haws
was armed with us higher powers than • court of law.
(Oh, oh.) The first thing that world be neesesary was to
wedeln the het, and if the hon. member (Mr. Cheatham)
would withdrew his amendment, ho would move that John
Lord be melted.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the house having
determined that there should be a select committee, it
be inconastent to order that the accused party should be
taken into custody pending the inquiry.
Mr. CHEST AM having withdrawn his amendment,
Mr. BUTT moved that John Lord Le ro-called to the bar.
Every step the hoe's was then taking wed be made a pre.
oaten whkh might affect tho rights and privileges of the
bongo It was most important to =Stain their oght to ex-
amine any pesos called to the bar, and sa the boo. member
for Lawas had expressed a desire to put • question, be
should either be allowed to do so or the house resolve nit to
do so out of oonsideration to the witness, at the same time
securing Its rights. Ho begged to move as an amendment
that John Lord be re-called to the bar.
Mr. CREETHAM had been anxious to put a direct
mmaon to the man which might criminate Lim, but, after
the explanation tithe Attorney-General, he did not feel &-
posed to adopt as extreme • course.
Mr. MALINS thought it would be better to adopt the
course suggested by the Attorney-Generate.
Mr. ADAMS supported the amendment. Johnson bad
taw care to get out of the way, and if Lord followed Me
example the house would be placed in an ahead position •
the two offenders would have got away, and only the paiti
wbo had given the information remain.
lkjemat KINGLAKE thought it would be much better
to leave the matter in the hands of the committee.
Mr. DILLWYN wished to know by what mane the
Attorney-General proposed to secure the attendance the
wham
11111 ATTORNEY-GENERAL said Ly the order of the
base. the witness had been solemnly ordered to attend,
NIA it be did not do so he would be guilty of • breach of
It had not as yet appeared that any ranee had
Werseraitted which would justify the hoar be ordering
the men into custody.
Mr. AYRTON reminded the house that a warrant could
sot Mew unless they resolved that the man had been guilty
of a breech of rivikge.
Mr. BOWR thought that some means should be taken
to secure the men's
Mr. tkojeent 011iwalnre tSid the only object of re-calling
the ma was to enable the hon. member for Tamales to put
• qn•Woo. But the hon. gentleman now declined to put it,
end thereon therefore no nee in mailing the man.
11"4:1'. Bnur:ded amendment t
it 97-55
'AS.ER then put the question, that John
Ladle coined to attend the committee at one o'clock on

Monday. ---
Mr. STEUART naiad the Attorney-General how he
would secure the attendance of the witness ?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL could only 'repeat, that
If the man did not attend he would be guilty of • high con-
tempt, and might be taken into custody.
Mr. BUTT suggested that the oomnuttee should be ap-
pointed at once, and ordered to meet this day.
Mr. MAGUIRE wished to know what jurisdiction the
Attorney-General would have if the man went off to
America to-morrow?
Mr. CRAUFURD said if Lord was to be considered
us whines be could not be taken into custody.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL would adopt the sugges-
tion of the bon. member for Youghal, and therefore begged
to withdraw histnotion.
The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL then moved that the
alma committee eonalst of the Attorney-General, Lord John
litemsfl, Mr. Hanley, the Attorney-General for Ireland, Mr.
o.•Bigiresta, Mr. Borman, Sir H. Willoughby, Mr. Roe-
beck Mr. Monday, and Mr. Serjeent O'Brien.
The motion nu at once unanimously agreed to.
The committee was then ordered to meet at on. o'clock
this day. John Lord and Abraham Bothwell were ordered
to attend it, and the petition of John Newell wu referred
to it.
In answer toe question from Sir W. Jou.tere,
The SPEAKER mid be thought the order alrestlede
was sufficient visitant to the committee to sit, notwl
thg the seljournemant of the house.
The sallied then dropped.
WAYS AND MEANS.

The home weld at; committee of ways and means A
vole of 8,000,0001. was aimed to, and the home resumed.
TURNPIKE TRUST ARRANGEMENT BILL.
This bill yea road a third time and paired.
OYSTER FISHERIES.
Oa the maks a/ Sir G. Pecan", an deer wee
=l,•..too•ise of any direoliona prim by the Lords
of bet Malady's Treasury, the Lade Coto-
misedoners of the Admiralty, and the Commissioners of the
Customs, for giving effect to certain rules or bye-tone made
by the Committee el Coned' foe Trade on the 21et of May,
1857, respecting the oyster Undo in the seas between the
British Islands end Prance, sa well ea on all part. of the
meet of Great Britain within the British fishery limits.
SCOTTISH LAW AMENDMENT.

The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave to bring In the
following :--A tell to remove doubts ato the law of
banamptay and real securities in Scotland ; a till to regulate
the institution of suits at the instance of the Crown sad the
public is In the courts of Scotland ; a bill to regu-
late the attribution of bushier in the Court of Session in
Scotland; a bill to provide for the ezienaion of munidpel
boundaries in Scotland ; a bill to improve and render lees en-
flreve the mode of imposing and collecting aseriesments in
Scotland ; and a till to-regulate procedure in the Bill Chem-
bur in Scotland.
The house than adjourned at tan ininatas past two.