The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1856-01-29 00:00:00

THE PEACE MOVEMENT.

Despatches from Vienna repeat the statement
that Russia proposed that the preliminaries of
peace shall be signed at Paris. She also expresses,
according to this despatch, a strong desire to
conclude peace as speedily as possible.
Another despatch mentions that on Sunday
Count Buol had not obtained the Russian signa-
ture to all the demands which the Cabinets of
England and France have thought proper to
signify as being necessary before opening nego-
ciation s.

The Journal des Debats, of yesterday, contains a
correspondence from Berlin, in which it is stated that
at St. Petersburg it is conceived that Russia has the
right, under clause five of the peace propositions, to
introduce special conditions on her own account, but
it is remarked that if this interpretation were
admitted, the claim would be neutralised by con-
trary provisions. The report is, that in self-
defence, Russia will demand that England shall
impose on herself obligations similar to those
Russia has declared her willingness to accept. For
example—England to be prevented fortifying
Heligoland, which menaces Denmark and all
North Germany, and that the number and strength
of her ships of war entering the Baltic, be
limited.

The Independance Beige, of Sunday, publishes
the following statement:—
" The text of the Russian acceptance arrived at
Vienna on the 23rd ; it was found satisfactory on
all points. From thence it was forwarded to Paris
and London, where it produced the same favourable
impression. The necessary authorisations to sign
the protocol have been forwarded to M. de Bour-
queney and Sir Hamilton Seymour. As to the
Conferences at Paris, on account of the necessity
of waiting for the Turkish Plenipotentiary, they
will not probably be opened until the end of
February."

The fridependance also intimates that Piedmont
will only discuss in the Conferences those ques-
tions in which she, as an Italian Power, is espe-
cially interested ; and states that Prussia will in
all probability be admitted to the Conference, on
account of the manner in which she supported the
Esterhazy propositions.

The following appeared in our Extra Editions o f
yesterday :

APPROACHING CONFERENCES

The Morning Post contains the following :—We are
enabled to state, that a protocol will be signed almost
immediately at Vienna, by the representatives of Eng-
land, France, Austria, and Russia, recording the fact of
the acceptance of the Austrian proposals by the Cabinet
of Russia, and fixing a date for the opening of confer-
ences upon the basis of those proposals. The conferences
will take place in about three weeks from this time, at
Paris, which capital was simultaneously proposed as the
seat of negotiations both by England and Russia.
Plenipotentiaries will be immediately appointed by the
powers concerned. Lords Clarendon and Cowley will
repres!nt England. The perfect accord which subsists
between France and England on the important and vital
questions to he submitted to those conferences, make it
certain that they will be opened under the most favour-
able auspices, and we trust they may issue in the hap-
piest results.

The Frankfort Gazette states that the sth point contains
not only the clause which forbids the re-construction of
Bomarsund but also the demand that the Island of Aland
shall be converted into neutral ground, and never be
occupied by a Russian garrison. The same journal says
that Count Nesselrode will himself probably be at the
negotiations.

The Piemonte, of Turin, has an article against peace
on the proposed terms, couched in a strong, if not
stronger, language than any that has been employed by
any English journal. The same journal also says :
" Russia knows what she is about while the Western
Powers apparently do not. In leaving Russia still
mistress of Poland she will he left with her principal
instrument of aggressive force; she will soon renew her
strength. The proposed arrangement is a miserable
expedient--a truce and not a peace."
The assertions of the German press, that it was Prus-
sia,:and Prussia only, that decided the Czar to give way,
are alluded to by the Paris correspondent of the Times,
with a view of showing that, while the Prussian Ambas-
sador was giving good advice, his colleague at Berlin
was urging the Cabinet of Vienna to content itself with
the Russian counter-propositions. The forwarding
agents in Memel and other places, have received orders
from their Russian customers to hold their hands for the
present, as the opportunity of sending goods cheaper by
water is very shortly expected, by the conclusion of a
looked for peace.

VIENNA:SUNDAY.—The text of the Russian accept-
ance of the propositions was received officially on the
23rd. It has been transmitted to London and Paris. The
necessary forms are expected immediately for Baron
Bourquenzy and Sir Hamilton Seymour to sign a pro-
tocol.

THE CAPE OF Goon HOPE.—We have received files of
papers from the Cape of Good Hope to the Bth of Dee.
inclusive. The Natal papers publish long accounts of the
visit of Sir George Grey to that colony. At Springfield
his Excellency visited the sugar estate, and expressed
much astonishment at finding an area of 120 acres of cane
ripening for next crop. He was, moreover, informed that
there were from 400 to 500 in other directions, north and
sonth, on the coast lands in a similar state of progress.
His Excellency was everwhere received with the greatest
enthusiasm.

THE EASTERN COUNTIES MEETING.—ReaIIy, unless the
Eastern Counties shareholders can manage to conduct
their meeting proceedings with more propriety, and them-
selves in a more gentlemanly manner, it will be better for
them not to meet at a'l. Personally we should think some
of them will suffer severe shocks to their constitutions
from their extremely excited conduct, and may have to
pay more in doctors' bills than they will ever receive in
dividends from their stock ; and of course, no business
worth transacting can be done by a meeting in a state of
uproar. The person who was listened to most attentively
was a fellow near us, who successfully imitated the howl
of a dog.—lierapath.

Too Mucrr AND Too LtrrLE.—The:mate of a transport
at Balaklava has been flogged for drunkenness, by order
of the Provost Marshal. It appears to be far from cer-
tain that the man was drunk, a natural stammer having
been taken for the defective utterance of intoxication.
The case was thus only one of strong suspicion of
drunkenness punished with the cat-o'-nine-tails• But,
assuming that it was proved drunkenness,llet us, compare
the punishment with the treatment of t4e same offence
on the part of the clergy, who should be our patterns of
conduct, in the ecclsiastical court, which we have lately
had occasion to notice. 'The charges in those instances
were of habitiial intoxication, not of single eases,
and the ready excuse found by the Court for the
vice was that the reverend defendant was led into it
by a kind and social disposition, The Provost Mar-
shal at Balakla,va discovered no such extenuating
circumstance in the mate's case. It was enough that he
found him drunk, or seeming drunk, and he flogged
him accordingly. If the culprit had been a clergyman
instead of a ship's mate, how much more indulgently his
offence would have been treated. Or if, on tha other
hand, the rev. rector, whose habitual drunkenness the
Arches Court so indulgently ascribed 'to his amiability,
had been in the Place of the Mate; in the hands of the Pro-
vost Marshal, ibist he would have smarted for his cups.
Certainly it would seem that the church would be better
for a little of the Provost Marshal in its discipline as
regards drunkenness, and that the army would not be the
worse for some of the leniency of the Arches Court.—
Examiner.

RAILWAY REFORM.

MEETING OF SHAREHOLDERS.-

YESTERDAY

A public meeting of parties interested in railway Pro"
perty, resident in Liverpool, Manchester, and the neigh-
bouring towns, was held at one o'clock, yesterday, in the
Cotton Sales' .room, Exchange-buildings, to consider the
propriety of forming a Railway Shareholders' Association.
The meeting was convened by advertisement, which
appeared in the Liverpool ipapers for the first time °LI
Saturday, and:owing, probably, to this shortness of notice,
combined with the inclement character of the weather, the
.
attendance was not as numerous as the generally admitted
importance of the subject would warrant. There were
not more than 150 gentlemen present. The chair wad
occupied by Lawrence Heyworth, Esq., M.P. ; and Mr'
Malins, chairman of the meeting held in London on the
22nd inst., attended to state the views which were al'
templated in the formation of the association.

The Chairman said: Gentlemen, I dare say you all fee
with me that the meeting, for the purpose on which we
are assembled, is of very great importance, and that the
matter we have to consider, as far as property is involved
in the question, is of the utmost importance. (Heal;
hear.) There is no one that has been engaged in railway
matters as long, for instance, as I, who have been colt'
nected with them from the first introduction of the railway
system into this country, but must have seen there bag
been a crying evil somewhere, which has destroyed the
finest property that was ever brought into action arnoll
mankind, and robbed of their just profits those who eta
ployed their capital in the construction of works so beat'
ficial to the general interests of the country. (heat'
hear.) Gentlemen, it is desirous that we should find out'
if possible, what are the evils which have thus destroyed
our fine property. Mr. Malins is here, as chairmali of the
Association of Railway Proprietors formed in London, t°
give us his views and opinions on the subject. He 113:
already stated his opinion of the nature of the evils whin:
have fallen on railway property, and in the chief portie"
of his views I perfectly coincide. He will pardon ate,i
however, if I point out one observation in his publishei
remarks at London—l do not know if it is correctly
reported or not—in which Ido not coincide. He seetcst j
attach but little importance, in considering the evils;
railway property, to the extensions and branches S"1 •
have been generally unproductive, and which have, as
consequence, rendered the first lines that were constructs
unprofitable to the original proprietors in the compaaje;
Now, I think that is precisely the point where all
evils have originated. I believe that if we had kept the
great arterial railways disconnected with, and sepal's/
from, unprofitable branches and unprofitable extensions
if we had kept the London and North-western, the 0011
Western, and the other great leading arteries of rally/ail?
throughout the kingdom to themselves, we would nctito
receiving the just remuneration of 10 per cent. for °O,
money, and 1 think that is only a fair remuneration ou tto
outlay, or great works like railways, which, at their C
mencement were very like speculations, in which o°o°l
could tell whether he would loose or gain. (Here, be 0
This evil of making additional branches and extensieer
has never received a sufficient curb from railway C
prietors. At the very dawn of the evil I proteso
d
poi
against it, and I know that others too protested ag3ity
it. For instance, when that branch was first proposee,
the making of a line from Manchester to Crewe, I P 1
tested against it. However, it was/218,de, and tho4',ooll
abstracted a considerable amount of capital in the
or
instance, and diminished our profits on the Grand Jo'ibet)
tion line, it in time recover itself, it is true, but 'Of
our property was depreciated for a period. It WaStot
quick recovery of that line after it was made'oo
caused shareholders to overlook the evil of ester
tte
lines, but still it is true, that nearly all the other ex lief
sious that have been made, and all the other WI,
that have been made through unproductive districts' o/
uniformly diminished our dividends. It is possible' oef
after the commerce of the country has been still Or!"
developed, and its population and wealth increased' t,/
unproductive branch lines, a hundred yea,.,, hpn,°' yep
also turn out profitable, just as the Manchester :repot

line to Crewe, become profitable in much less ' tinie•;
still it is the interest of shareholders to protest 4901
any branch lines or extensions being made, air'
against the inveterate competition which railways ti3osi
tain between each other. (Hear, hear, and 013Pitp
Railways ought to look upon their interests as one; 01
ought to bear community of interests. Now, what G:01

more mad, or foolish policy—and I only mention it 35tj
instance—what can be more mad :orimpolitiesst
the contest going on between the Lanc!gt

and Yorkshire, V and the Ea;;-
company, here at hand. A line was made from the :ire,'
bourhood of Ormskirk to Southport. There is 3
line to Southport, which has been purchased by tped
cashire and Yorkshire company, and the traffic 11(4,,";(1
ought to flow over that line. Now, lam interest,
both of these railways, and, therefore, speak disilird
edly as regards one or the other. The traffic Oltpoj
flows direct from Liverpool to Southport, over wool
belongs to the Lancashire and Yorkshire corapaa.eofjv
did the East Lancashire company do, but iudeflaile
moral feeling—of what is morally right between go

man—they say to the Lancashire and Yorkshire .0
pany, "we have the power of competing with i°-titio'
because we have that power, we will put it into e%ee,
though to our own injury, and the injury of our
holders, and to the injury of you and your sharel°
for we will have a portion of this traffic, though )t0504
not naturally flow over our line, whatever it n-ti
Thus are the interests of all sacrificed, because 1:0 P
aware that the traffic is totally unremunerative
East Lancashire company, and very little remilneV4
if at all, to the Lancashire and Yorkshire compaePoit'
I only mention that as an instance of what ig

- -
upon all the lines. We have all a common inter" ,
we have all shares more or less in all those railwa/tr'ite'
what then does it signify whether this railway e°
with that railway, when both are our. property? 1115
we should say is this--" observe, gentlemen, tile"
rights which exist between you as companies,
would between yourselves- as individuals. you
not go and act towards individuals in that way, or
e 0
did, you would be scouted in society, well,Lco,'/,
moral in your conduct to the other railways arena e:
(Hear, hear.) The very first rupture between the 041,
and North Western and the Great Western eattiii;
commenced by an immoral act on the part of °fietorj,'
directors of the former line, but who is a (11;4
more. The traffic of the Cheltenham and t'
district, flowed naturally :over the Great Wesrtivi
but he, acting on the immoral principle which sfr(
above pointed out, declared that the other lio°
have a portion of that traffic, and so began tb
Wien. The result has been, that the one 10-,
1$ ~
formerly paid ()W P 4
it per cent, now only
i 4 ee7 per cent, ar46l the other line , which also 133 f
per cent, now only pays four or five Pej !*,`,
Ruination has come upon us, when if they I°selrp"
fitowards
eellaocvheOht :ler as honest men do among theme i 0
ray conscience that we weal(' )
receipt of IQ per cent at this day. (Hear, hear',,,i
Mr. Marius, after apologising for his presetleestioill
them, on the score of the importance of the (II 10'1'only to them, but to the whole nation, proceeded tIY
that having been invited to appear before
as urged by his colleagues in London to attelioeteril
Or
believed it his duty to attend, however incitlef:.
might be to bring the suLdeet, to consider whiell''','
assembled, before them. The capital which 105 e toVS
in railways was So enormous as almost to P 5 lie
prehension; but it might be imagined wh°3oArl'
that the capital so embarked, representta t;
preference shares, or debentures and bonds, Ile
el'
twenty times as large as the capital of tb„-e 0' pt
England, and from six to eight times as lar''oP`,,
Ton 410
embarked in the cotton trade, on which the 01".
of
of England so much depended. He would 0
or sly9
comparison between it and the agricultural
reg
interest, because he conceived that the figlice,..'
already given sufficiently showed its impeertaljai fr;"
one of the strangest things to be witness; to vo4t,
property a such magnitude should be alloweooo
decay. (Hear.) 'the downward course was still
for he would not call the spurt that 113(48 14/
within the last few days, in consequence of `rogreof;
of peace, any deviation to the downward Ptiell'4
had been going on. There were a few excev
constructed lines, and the results which eltl tleP;og
showed that the fault was not in the railways f de~~
as commercial undertakings, but in the rneclell
meat (hem', hear), for even uncler, nearly o

stances, there were some lines that had risen, while the
great majority had fallen. It was a consolation to know
that some of them were well conducted, and that because
they were so managed, they enjoyed the public confidence,
and prospered ; and that instead of following the general
downward course, they had risen, even in the present
time. He saw no reason why the same management
should not be applied to all (hear, hear), and it was to
enlist the co-operation of the gentlemen of Liverpool and
Manchester in bringing about that end that he appeared
before them. The distrust of the public in railways%
he believed, arose in a great measure from the opinion
that there was no distinction made between the capital and
revenue accounts, and, if that opinion were true (and he
feared they all too well knew that it was true) a more
fatal error in management could not by possibility have
been committed. If a person built a house, or shop, or
manufactory, and after building it, closed his capital
account as it was called, and then traded for a year, and
ending that he had not been successful, took a few thou.
sands from the capital account to persuade himself and
his friends that he was trading profitably—such an instance
In trading as that would be a parallel case to the manage-
ment in railways in taking money out of the capital
account for those expenses that ought to be provided out
of revenue. (Hear, hear.) Therefore, they should come
to the conclusion, that unless a distinction was made,
apparent to the whole kingdom, that capital was not
applied to revenue accounts for revenue purposes, the
public confidence would not be given to railways, and they
could not arrest the downward movement that had been
so long going on. (Hear, hear.) He would quote from
the Daily News of the 21st inst., the statistics of a few
French railways in comparison with some English lines,
because they spoke in terms not to be misunderstood by
any body. On the -31st of January, 1855, there were
thirty-one British railways worth 124,839,0261., and they
Were now worth only 89,620,5161., being a depreciation of
upwards of 29,000,0001. in the market value of thos(
securities. At the same period there were thirty-on
French railways which were worth 31,122,000/.

and they

Were now worth, at market price, 60,517,3101., or nearly
double their cost, and paying ou an average a dividend of
102 per cent., after deducting the sums necessary for the
ultimate redemption of the stock. They could not then,
In a national point of view, overestimate the importance
of setting this great question right—(hear, hear)—because
many men, who were considered wiser than their neigh-
bours, prided themselves that they did not hold a single
share, whilst they did not hesitate to embark in any
foreign adventure of the same kind ; and, if that system
Which drained the capital of the country were not checked,
the most disastrous results would be produced on their
position at home. It caused a drain of gold from the
country, and the consequence, was that the balance in the
books was diminished, the rate of discount and of interest
in every transaction rose, the exchange was against them,
the "bank screw" was applied, prices were "crushed
down," and ruin spread in every direction—such ruin as
that which followed the crisis in 1847, and again recently in
the year which they had witnessed. The question then was
not one of private but of national safety, and as the wel-
fare of the country depended upon it, it should be met in
an honest way. (Hear, hear.) The question which the
chairman had introduced, was one of the highest import-
ance in railway matters, namely, the question of exten-
sion, and in dealing with it, he (Mr. Malin's) would
merely :say, that if extension had ruined the railway
system they could not now set it right, and that if it were
an evil, it was a minor one compared with the course
pursued, in regard to a great portion of the traffic which
was taken, not at a profit, but at a great loss. The
figures which he should have to lay before them, would
prove that to be the case. The obj 3ct which they wished
to bring about, was described very accurately in the city
article of the Times the day after the meeting in London,
but in the comments which were made in a leader of the
Times the day following, it was attributed to him that he
considered 4 per cent. sufficient remuneration for share.

holders in railway property. Now, he neither said nor
meant anything of the kind, and as probably they had not
read his letter, in reply which the Times inserted, they
would permit him again to repeat his explanation. (Hear,
12ear.) His view was, that 4 per cent., or the common
Interest of money, was as much one of the charges of con-
eating railways, as the men's wages they employed, and
that the
at mh"; managers in making their calculation of the cost
0, en they can do any work, carrying passengers or
g'"ds, should make provision for that common interest of
money, as one of the necessary charges to be made on all
the traffic, and that when they had paid that common
interest' any thing that was over was a profit ; but he
never meant to have it supposed for one moment, that he
considered 4 per cent. adequate remuneration on the
undertakings. (Hear, hear.) He though 6 per cent. a fair
and moderate profit to look for, and if they went much far-
ther beyond that, the other evil of further extensions
would be incurred. Referring again to the
question of interest and cost, they found that the total cost
of the construction of the railways in the kingdom had
been at the rate of 35,0001. per mile, and that the traffic
on the lines was 2,567/. per mile. If they took the com-
mon interest on that outlay they would find it to come to
1771/. simply for interest on the cost of construction, so
that almost two-thirds of the total earnings of the line were
et the present time absorbed in the cost of construction,
Heaving for other expenses and indispensable charges only
little more than 7961. per mile. That sum was not suffi-
cient, and the consequence was that some shareholders
had to go without any dividend at all, while those in the
best lines only received up to four per cent. It was difficult
to imagine how such a state of things had come about, but
he was inclined to think that instead of having too little
management they had too much of it ; and they had so
much competition one line against the other, cutting down
the charges to the lowest figure, that he was satisfied that
great part of the traffic was carried at such a loss as to
swamp the large profits which he believed was made upon
mach of the passenger and ordinary traffic. (Hear, hear.)
The est of running a train from Liverpool to London
Mr. Stephel7son calculated at Is. 3d. a mile, and when they
recollected that he fare was ii. 175., and for the express
21..75., which left a w:.`le margin, they should be astonished
how any loss had arisen ; ,;ut if they investigated the
matter a little closer they would see it in its true light.
They were not, however, to despair, but they should say
to their directors, " You shall not make ducks and drakes
of our property. See what your expenses are for your
traffic, and if you do not get remuneration enough leave
it alone." (Hear, hear.) They would be much better off
Without the traffic, if they could not get a profit on it.
'When he considered the practical wisdom for which
Liverpool men were distinguished he was astonished that
they should hive allowed such a state of things to arise.
and he could only find a solution for it in this way—that

the active mind of Liverpool and Manchester was
at work against the passive mind of Liverpool
and Manchester ; that was, that in both places there
Were so many men who had a direct interest
In the carrying at low rates, because of the nature of
their business, that they were ever at work in the matter,
and
so the active mind prevailed over the passive mind,
or the men of business over those shareholders who sat at
home in peace and ease. He had no doubt,
throiwever:thHat
y
they could combat the evil, and would
et'
h
disclaimed the shadow of hostility to
the Lnomndpo.n and e
North Western Railway or the Great Western Company,
,or any other line. 7 He looked upon shareholders
on
great body of men who had a common interest, and he
trusted that that feeling would henceforth inspire them
ail, and the evils which they deplored be thereby abated.
(Hear, hear.) The magnitude of those evils would be
found in the amount of the deterioration in the value of
their property. He would give one instance. The London
oad. North Western, though it in nine years increased its
~%pital by 132 per cent., or from 14,073,1181. in 1846, to
39, 074,652/. in 1853, it had reduced its dividend, al though
traffic' bad tripled itself in amount. (Hear, hear.) He
found, c•kpin, that in 1849 the average of a passenger
amounted to 3'. l ltd. ; in 1854 it was only 2s. B,}d.,and
they would t'horefore see that when these reductions were
made, without at the same time reducing the interest and
the cost of wor;:ing' all: the loss should fall on the
shareholders. (Hear.) The
shoulders of the cu'lltlarY
chairman had remarkc'd, in ,opening the meeting, on the
evil of making branch liCes but when they recollected
that one of the most valuable branch lines in the kingdom
—the Trent Valley—was the work of a man so reputed
for wisdom, and so high in pubiic confidence as the late
Sir Robert Peel, they could not wonder that all the world
should follow in the footsteps of a man who had been
almost worshipped in his jtime. However much the evil
was to be regretted, it was one which could not have been
prevented; nor did ho believe it was injthe power of man
now to atop the construction of additional railways, :or
wherever there was a block of country so far from
9.l,4tation as to be debarred of its advantages,

its inhabitants would move heaven and earth, until they
got a railway to pass through their district, and bring
them into communication with the rest of the world, and
chiefly its markets. The chairman would say, " let them
make it at their own cost." (Hear, hear.) It was a
good maxim, and if shareholders had the power of legis-
lating they might order it, but there was no law to prevent
other people helping them, and he was afraid the evil
would still go on. They would recollect that a little
before the Trent-Valley line was made, railways were
puzzled how to dispose of their profits, and that it was
upon that occasion that Sir Robert Peel brought in his
celebrated law, to give government the power of purchas-
ing them at a valuation, when they paid ten per cent.
That law almost set the country wild in the impulse which
it gave to railway property, and the consequence vi as,

that power was sought for and obtained, for the making of
branch lines and extension in every direction. At that
time, in 1846, the gross earnings of the London and North
Western railway, was 2,082,9661. That was earned by
220 locomotive engines, and they had a dividend of ten
per cent, and a considerable surplus behind. In nine
years afterwards, in 1854, the gross traffic was only
2,770,7071, although triple amount of work was done, and
triple the number of engines employed ; or in other
words, it was earned by 653, instead of 220, engines. In
1846, the net earnings of each engine were 5,2611; in 1854,
the gross earnings were only 4,2541; showing a difference
of 1,0071 upon the earnings of each engine—the one, too,
being nett, and the other gross; although, as they knew,
the power of the engines had been greatly increased
between the one period and the other. In 1846, the length
of road to be maintained was 381 miles, the charge for

the year being 90,8101. or 2381. per mile: in 1854, there
were 639 miles, the charge for which was 107.6181. or 1681.
per mile, being 70/. less than in 1846, although the traffic
had increased, and with it, of course, an enormous increase
in wear and tear. He could not say whether it was true.
but there was a sum of 441,0001. charged against the
capital, and it was believed by many persons that it went
to the " renewal of way." (Hear, hear.) He believed
that one of the greatest evils of the traffic was, that it was
carried on at present by great monopolies. Certain per-
sons had the exclusive privilege of sending goods in a
particular direction, and a friend of his who was taking
an active part in this movement, complained to him that,
having to send 1,500 bales of Manchester goods from Lon-
don, he could only do it through one particular house,
and on payment to it of one shilling a bale. He considered.
and he was sure the meeting would agree with hi-n, that
the railway should be open to all parties, and
if " people " were to " bleed by the nose."—
(laughter)—for its use, the company and not a third party
should have the benefit of all it performed. (Hear, hear.)
Another thing which should be taken into account was the
canal interest, for no doubt they were aware that their
dividends, which originally had been generally ten per
cent, had been brought very low through the competition
between railways and canals. He had had some commu-
nication with the heads of that interest, and he believed
there would be no objection on their part to meet railway
proprietors in a fair spirit in order that each might get
from the public such fair remuneration for work performed
as each was entitled to. Not to weary them further with
figures he would, if they pleased, proceed to consider the
remedy proposed, and which would be found embodied in
the resolutions passed at the meeting in London, and pub-
lished in the Times. Mr. Malins here read the resolutions
and continued :,The custom of auditing railway accounts at
the end of each half year he believed to be very useless
It was not the practice which they adopted in private
business, but, on the contrary, they looked at their bills
before they paid them. They hoped to see a most rigid
system of audit and control brought about before accounts
were paid, and a mode of dealing with the accounts
adopted, that it would be impossible to put that which
belonged to revenue accounts to capital, and vice versa.
The trouble which would arise from dealing in that way
with capital and revenue might be considerable, but noth-
ing as compared to the benefit which would arise from it;
and, therefore, be thought they could not too seriously
turn their attention to the question, and give all the aid in
their power in bringing about so desirable and needed a
change in railway management. The question of deterio-
ration to the rails was one of the utmost consequence; it
was one which, as Mr. Stephenson remarked, after
a given time, was a new expense, like salaries to their
servants,and therefore it should,be borne in the same way.
and not by funds brought overito future years, but every
year bear its own proper proportion of the expense. If
it were not so their managers would ibe mistaken in the
amount which it would cost to carry on the work, and as a
consequence they would continue to carry at a loss. Again,
Mr. Stephenson had calculated that a saving of /d. on
each train mile run would give them a total saving of
80,0001. per annum, and a farthing additional on each
passenger carried during the year would give them 160,0001.
—both together being nearly a quarter of a milllion. It was
not, therefore, with great things they would have to deal,
but it was with small and apparently petty charges,
and if they did that, and saw that no traffic was taken at
a loss, they would soon restore rail vay property to its true
value. In conclusion Mr. Malins again dwelt on the
importance of the subject of railway reform in a national
and private point of view, and observed that he had come
to Liverpool to ask the people of it and Manchester for
their co-operation and aid in the movement. If they
thought it was not of such importance as to deserve that aid
he would regret it, because he knew that without that
support nothing could he done in the matter; but he
trusted that they would think otherwise, and that they
would not cease in their co-operation until the great end
proposed to them was accomplished. (Cheers.)
Mr. Wrigley, of Manchester then came forward for the
purpose of offering a few observations upon the subject
then under discussion. He said it was only on the previous
night that he had heacd that there was to be a meeting in
Liverpool on that day. Had he known that there would
be a meeting held in Manchester in order that the
shareholders in railways in that district might have
expressed their opinion on the subject, he should have
reserved himself for that day, but as such was not
the case, he felt it to be his duty to attend the meeting,
and to give his, and he might say the opinions of many
others of the town to which he belonged, on the subject.
He had read with considerable interest the reports of the
speech of the meeting held in London a few days since, for
the purpose of establishing a Railway Reform Association,
and of the necessity of such an association, but few could
doubt. He might say that he felt a peculiar interest
in the subject, as for seven years he had been
a director of a company, and it was some years
sihce he retired, and had endeavoured to withdraw his
money from such a source, and he would assure the meet-
ing that when he did retire, it was from sheer disgust at the
way in which the business of the company was conducted'
(Hear, hear.) There was: such a want of moral principle
in all their transactions, and the mode in which the busi-
ness was conducted was so shameful, that since he had
withdrawn from the company he had been endeavouring to
quit himself of railway stock altogether, but he had been
unable to do so from the great:losses he would have to sus-
tain ; and he attended that meeting in the expectation
that the association would devise some means by which to
restrain or check the present system of railway manage-
ment. (Rear, hear.) If the present system was not put
a stop to, all interest in railways would be stopped, and
ruination would follow. There was one striking feature in
the railways of the present day, and that was, that the
shareholders were under the controul of the officials, and
there was an utter want of power on the part of the share-
holders, which prevented them from taking the management
of their own affairs into their own hands, and unless some ,
steps were taken to remedy the evil, the power would grow
so strong, that the officials would think that they had
nothing to do but to vote their own salaries. Much had
had been said about railway directors, and no small amount
of blame had been cast upon them as a body, but he would
not join in the censures upon them all, because he believed
that there were some very honest men amongst them who
could act impartially, and who would bring to bear their
influence on railway matters I therefore it was that he
would not join in the common censures on all. He believed
.!tat railway directors were what railway shareholders made
The shareholders had been too unmind-
ful of their own interests, as they had
not attended to the meetings as they should have done, and
therefore they hadhrdo right to cast all the blame on the
the prosperity of the
railwayeontentedwitthhewmhseielvhesthtoeyhweaerrien
directors. They
con-
nected, and have been blinded as to how the dividendgwaosf raised: They were content so that theyd saw that the shares
rose in the market. He would allude onel subject, and
poau
toiffisice. What
that was the men who filled the
motive, he would ask, had the Eastern etheComany
for placing the gentleman in the position he
(Cries of "Question.") He was speaking to the then
held
question
—he was adverting, and was about to show the effects of
railway government on railway shareholders. He would
ask them was it to benefit the shareholders that he was
placed in that position P He was inclined to think not, but
because he was an adept—he had had great experience in
railway matters, and knew how to go to work. He might
be wrong in his conclusions as ho might be right. He
would not oecupy much of their time, but there was one
point to which be would allude, as it had been referred to
by Mr. Malin's : he alluded to what he said relative to the
general management of railways. He (Mr. M.) would wish
us to Interfere in the minutest details of railway
management.

Mr. Melina wished it to be understood that he meant
the shareholders should require the directors to do so.
Air. Wrigley thought it would be out of the power of the

shareholders to give such power. There were certain great
principles which an association might confine itself to, by
saying that they may do this or that, which might be
advantageous. He would admit the truth as to what
the chairman had said with regard to the
branch railways—it was to that that he attri-
buted the whole mismavagement. As for constructing
these branch lines, great expenses were incurred, which
expenses were taken from the capital. That would account
for all. He did hope when he came to that meeting that
something definite would have been proposed, and that steps
would be Olen to remove the monster evil, and that
something specific would have been said in the resolutions
will regard to keeping of the accounts, and for separating
the capital from the revenue, and have it so arranged that
the dividend that was paid should be paid out of the revenue
and not out of the capital. (near, hear.) He believed
that Mr. Malins relied much upon the auditing of the
accounts, but, for his part, he had no faith in that mode,
for railway shareholders were not adepts in accounts that no
auditor, whatever amount of ability he might possess, could
detect them, or prevent them taking the money and using it
if they had it in their hands. In the month of February,
1855, he had addressed a letter to the Times on this subject,
and the mode he suggested—
The Chairman thought that these observations and sug-
gestions had better come after the resolution had been put.
They were not at all applicable at that stage of the pro-
ceedings.
Mr. Wrigley wished to know what end the association had
in view, for if it merely depended on the proper auditing of
accounts, then he fJr one should not have anything to do
with it.

The Chairman said he would read the resolution it was
proposed should be adopted by that meeting, which was to
the effect that that meeting fully approve of the formation
of a railway reform association, and pledges itself to
support it with its best influence and power;
that from the mismanagement that had existed
it had become the duty of the shareholders to in.
vestigate and disc'ver the evils, and remove them. He
said he would move that that resolution be adopted.
Mr. Guest seconded the resolution.

Mr. G. Maxwell said there could not be a doubt but that
the subject they had met to discuss, was one of the greatest
importance, and he only regretted the smallness of the
members present, which was to be attributed to its not
being generally known that such a meeting was going to be
held, and he was very sorry that more pains had not been
taken to make it known ; for, had such been the case, a
much larger number of gentlemen, deeply interested in the
subject, would, he was sure, have been in attendance. He
should he afraid, not that the resolution would not be
carried, but that it might be thought that the meeting was
not sufficiently influential for them to adopt the resolution,
without having more information on the objects, and it
would have a much better effect. He would suggest that
a committee should be selected from that meeting, with a
view of drawing up a series of resolutions, to be submitted
to a larger meeting, to be held at some subsequent period.
The resolution would be carried, but it would not be in
presence of such a meeting as the subject demanded. He
condemned the whole system of railway management, as it
was done by managers and lawyers, who took all the power
from the shareholders. If they had a mind to do any good,
they must shake off the rest of the evil. In his time, he
had been a director, and had seen a little. The mode by
which the extensions were made, was scandalous. He con-
cluded by suggestint, an adjournment.
In answer to a shareholder,

Mr. Malins explained that the reason the meeting had
been called together on so short a notice was, that the
great railways were about holding their half-yearly meetings,
and they were desirous of having the feeling of the share-
holders, in order to place it before the directors. In making
the observations he bad done, he had endeavoured to be
as brief as possible, and as he had so recently spoken on
the same subject, to avoid repeating what he had already
said. Having offered some few words in explanation of
the origin of the association, he 'called upon shareholders
to come forward and give the association their best support,
as a subject of deep interest to them all was involved in it.
The Chairman having declared the first resolution carried,
proceeded to read the second, to the effect that the associ-
ation having discovered the evils in the present railway
management, pledge themselves to endeavour to adopt
means to prevent their recurrence.

Mr. Wrigley hoped that the committee would understand
that it was their imperative duty to see that steps were
taken to compel the division of revenue and capital.
The Chairman : That is a matter of detail for the asso-
ciation to take into consideration.

Mr. Maxwell thought that the revenue accounts should
be managed by a distinct class of men ; call them trustees,
or by any other name, but 'et them he alone responsible.
Mr. Healing said it appeared to him that if they were to
form an association on so important a subject, it would be
advisable to form a provisional committee, to confer with
the council in London, and let there be a London meeting
held in Manchester, and a committee appointed there.
Let them all act together, and then they would represent
all the principal railways in England, and have in their
society men of influence, and names that were known
throughout England. That would be the way to get
refo m. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Maxwell would like to know the real footing on
which Mr. Malins appeared in Liverpool. They should
know whether he came there to solicit the support, and also
how the formation of the association would apply to the
provinces ?
Mr. Malins said, that the committee in London had
thought it exceedingly desirable that the association should
be thoroughly organised before the half yearly meetings of
the railways commenced. They came there for the purposa
of asking for advice and support, knowing that it was only
with union that they could have strength. (Hear, hear.)
They did not contemplate carrying it out in London alone,
but what they wanted was to have the best men from all
parts of the kingdom.
Mr. Withers agreed with the remarks made by Mr.
Healing, and proposed the following gentlemen, with
power to add to their number : The Chairman, Mr. G.
Maxwell, Mr. A. M‘Grezor, Mr. Robert Moon, Mr. Richard
Highfield, and Mr. A. Hislop, as the provisional committee
for this town.

Mr. G. Maxwelf proposed a vote of thanks to Mr. Malins,
who briefly returned his thanks, when a similar compli-
ment was paid to the chairman, and the meeting broke up.
The Committee immediately assembled for the purpose of
dt.vising the necessary steps for carrying out the objects they
bad in convening the meeting.