The Express.
London, England, 1850-05-28 00:00:00

HER meinTfilTiiwtCtotHE ADDRESS OF

THE HUUBB ON THE+ BIRTH OP A PRINCE.
Mr. LAW/MUM appeared at the bar, and said that he
had presented to bar Majesty the address of the hew con-
gratulating her Majesty. on the birth of a prince, to which
her Mejsety was graesonely p'eased to return an answer,
Dubbing the house fee their loyal and dutiful address.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
Ifizmay C BILL.—The Sherills of the City of
Ltedon appeared at the bar and presented a petition front
the Lwd Mayor and Corporation of Landon, against this
bill.

THE ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.
Sir B. HALL pave settee for Friday emit, to sieve for
• return of all the data on which the Ecclesiastical Commis-
sioners had founded their r•p',re.
TRADE AND NAVIGATION RETURNS.
Mr. MACORIWOR, to is,,. on motion for committee
of supply, for certain retorts comes:ad with trade sad lIST--
111‘011.
THE NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.
Mr. HUME gave miles that whoa the report on the sup-
ply Tote for the earadltare upon the new bosses of parlia.
meat, he should take the seam of t►e homi epos the gees.
Hon, whether the ..ovules VA of that edifile should out be
subjected to investlgation sad control by the legislature.

LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRELAND) BILL
Mr. BRIGHT gave sodas that ho should ilk this right
boa. &retry for Woad oat Tau* or Thermally whir
fir goversarst lateaded to rove tha ersed reading of thls
bib.
STAMP DUTIES BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of tho EXCHEQUER, is rower
to Mr. °twist said it or sot probable rat . tke Stamp
Dries Bill world arm sa ea the dig kr whisk is Ira at
proud Sze&
THE BOARD 07 TRADE. •
Mr. DISRAELI rid it Was his latipasiss, ea the was No.
6 (e jihkelt related so this Privy
ivil esevios) berg
Caron din sad the =8:111 Trees, to bar brought tu-
tor the heir the ocastitutios of Au bumf i but es, owing
to a dressastaao• *high they rut all (hest,
hear)—the right hoo. prsidest of that board (Mr. Lebo--
shore) Gould sot poorly ho mesas, he hoped auditors
ovoid fled it soneeslent to postpere that ode.
Tito CHANCELLOR of try EXCHEQUER said bo
would at Ines steeds to the yogurt.
METROPOLITAN INTERMENTS BILL.

In amO;;;;STirl.llau,
Sir 0. (IRBY said be themillt the meet esavealsat mums
with Ibis bill would be t. °moat it that day, pro Jeans, for
the purpose of instrting new dames, and M move MR re-
committal for Monday seat. He was set quite sure whether
he should be able to bring it es as tbat day, but :be would
give notice in the interim.
SUPPLY.—THE CIVIL SERVICES.

Tim bongo then went into oommiiteg of supply (Mr.
Bantgat. to the chair)) on the estimates for the 'gravamens.
THE NEW 11011888 OF PARLIAMENT.
The first vote was 92,3001„ " the Marge et salaries and
expessesof the two house, of parliament, amid allowances
to retired damn of the two houses."

Mr. HUME ssid he found then was a seasidtrable in •
crease is the &want proposed to be 'would as salaries sod
expenses of the House of Lends. Lest year it wee 21,9001. ;
he the present estimate it was 32,4001. The amount regained
in aid of the Is* feed was last you 14,0001. ; is the present
year, 24,6001.
Alter ease oosvasatioe, the ocineraittee divided—
For the rots

For the ',mimetic 4B-62

The Tate was then 'areal to.
PUBLIC SALARIES.
On the vote of 66,1001. for salaries and expenses on the
part of the Treasury,
Mr. FORBES snored that the vote be redhead by 10 per
ant. He thought it toes only fair to dues who had sufftred
in consequence of the recent change in their commercial
policy, that the salaries of public (SOU, should be reduced
to proportion to the fall in the primp of provisions.
CW. THOMPSON said that the profits of his coutiments
bed gone up 27 per cent.. not in consequence of any injury
which had been inflicted upon others, but in consequence of
the abolition of a wrong done to themselves. (Hear.)
Col. SIBTHORP said they might not to agree to this
vote until the committee which was now sitting upon the
subject bad made their report, unless the Chancellor of the
Exchequer pledged himself that the government would int-
mediwely carry into effect the recommendations of that
casualties

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that in
we the committee should recommend a reduction in the ea-
krise at the high political officers of the state, the govern
meat would be prepared to reduce those salaries from that
time.

Mr. HUME wished to know whether the committee had
come to any determination as yet with regard to the stlerits
of the hem., of departments, which amounted to 18,6001.
There were, he perceiv. d, 45 clerks, with salaries from 9i4.
upwards. He was net disposed to strike off 10 per cant.
from their salaries, and would rather reduce the number of
persons employed than the amount of salary paid them.
there were 20 messengers, whose admits amounted to
2,3181 That was a large amount, and he thought it pro-
bable the number might be reduced.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER acid that
the committee had not made any rap rt as yet with regard to
the "alarm of the high ofßwrs of state. lie agreed with
the hon. gentleman that the true_principle of reduction was
to reduce the number of ponce, if they were too many,
other than the amount of salary. They had already
effected a saving of 5,8001. by a reduction in the number of
persons employed.
Mr. MACUREGOR could:state from his own experience
that, Instead of their being a superabundance, there was
rather a deficiency of messengers.
El. DISRAELI hoped his hon. friend would not press his
motion, bruise it was evident it would at firmest be quite
union for two reasons; firs*, because of the nattiness of the
committee sitting up stairs, and, secondly, because of the
eistence of the ti uncial reformers. (" hear, hear," and •
laugh.)
Mr. FORBES said he would not press his motion to a
division.

Col. THOMPSON hoped the liniment reformers would
not look for any amnia for economy coming tram the other
side—(cheen from the protectionists)—prefaced by the as-
sertion that the country was less able to bear its expen-
diture, in consequence of the recent changes in its
commercial policy. (Hest, hear) He 'maintained
that the people of the country were better ►ble to bear the
expenditure of the ocniiitry than they ever were. (Hear,
hear.) That was no TIM°. however, why economy should
not be practised, but net on the ground waned by hon.
gentlemen opposite.
Mr. HUME protested against the doctrine that the prin-
ciple of economy was not to be adopted, from whatever side
the proposition essanatsd. (Hear, hear.)

M:. COBDEN retuned to concur in a spiteful and mali-
cious vote introduced merely as a medium of retaliation and
suggesting a general reduction in the wages of labour. In
the great industrial Held in the West Riding of Yorkshire
the rate of wages had been for some time on the increase;
and if the agricultural districts exhibited • decline of em-
ployment, it wee because the abundant materials for repro-
Lective lab ter which they contained were net wisely and
actively developed.
Mr. DISRAELI ret:rted upon the financial reformers
thiir many forgone statements of distress among the middle
and employing classes. The " paying power " of the coun-
try was diminished, distress reigned widely in other districts,
though the West Riding was said to be an exception, and
the universal prosperity prophesied from the abolition of the
corn law seemed postponed indefinitely upon various pretexts.
Mr. Y. SMITH agreed io the principle that the relative
value of money and wcesearies should regulate the amount
of fixed salaries, but declined to disturb • question which
was now under inverigation by a select committee.
Mr. NEWDEGATE inquired why the economical pre-
possessions, so strongly evinced against the milisary expendi-
ture, were not equally directed against the outlay for civil
services.

The amendment was then negatived without a division.
The next vote of 26,0001. to defray the salaries and ex-
penses incidental to the home impartment was passed without
opposition.
THE PASSPORT SYSTEM.
_ .

_ -
Oa the vete of 71,0001. expenses incidental to the Foreign-
office being put,
A brief discussion upon ywasports was introduced by Lord
M•KON, and shined from Lord PALKIMITON an lignottnee-
meat that the intention at one time manifested by the French
government to abolish the passport system had not been
carried set; nor was there any present prospect either in
that or other continental countries of having the embarrass.
ment thus caused to travelling removed.
The vote was agreed to.
The ram of 2,7001. was voted for the salaries end other
expenses of the State Paper-asses.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.
On the proposal to grant 3,8401. to defray a portion of the
expenses of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners far England,
Mr. V. SMITH said this vote ought not, in his opinion,
to appear in the miscellaneous estimates. (Hear, hear.)
The committee which sat on those estimates in 1848 had de-
clared that the emptiness might fairly be defrayed out of the
funds at the Opus' of the commission. The time was come
when they Rigid very fairly sak the oomnakeloners to take this
expense speatheesselvm. His only reason for aotopposing the
vote was tWtheire was a bill pending with regard to the Goole•
siastical comminii3n, and that it was not clearable to raise
the question Involved in that bill on that occasion. It was
desirable, however, that the house should have some infor-
mation with respect to the bill to which he referred.
(Hear, hear.) _
Sir B. HALL agreed with his right hon. Mend that the
house should be informed when the bill would be promieded
with. They should have as little to do with the commie
donne se the commissioner, desired to have to do with them.
I (Hear, hear.) Three years had elapsed since the commis-
' donors had made any report. From the moment his hon.
I friend ventured to make observations on the report made in
1847, they had coned to famish to the house any information
with regard to their proceedings. His hon. friend the member
for Macclesfield (Mr. J. Williams) having moved for certain
returns with regard 1 Welsh bishoprics, nine months (not
• very uncommon period of gestation)—(laughter)—elapeed
before those returns were obtained from the Bishop of St.
Day.d'L

Sir 0. GREY said that with regard to the bill which
bad been referred to, he could amaze the house that there
was not the slightest latention on the part of the govern-
ment not to proceed with it. (Rear, hear.) Whether they
should do so or not on Monday neat, mum depend ea the
state of publis business. As the subject of the 'Waited-
cal csassaiinicia had arisen, he was quite willing that the
rota should be postponed until after the bill had been dis-
eased. (Hear hear.) With respect to the returns referred
to by the boa. baronet (Sir B Hall), he must say they were
returns with which the ecclesiastical 00t111/0140110,11, es
such, had nothing whatever to do; they were to be obtained
by the bishops Irons the clergy of their respective dimness.
The vete was then withdrawn.
POOR LAW.

Oa the proposal to grant 227,6001. to defray ezpenses con.
neat. d with the administration of the laws relating to the
poor,
Ccionel BIETIIORP &d the *Bice of the Poor-law Com-
mission had now beta established about twenty lean, and
he would like to know what good it had ever dm*. He
objected to this vote, end would not assent to the propo-
sition put by the hen. chairmen.
CoL DUNNE wished to call the attentioa of the home
and of tbe Irish members particularly to the fact that the
amount of the salaries of the medical ofileas and school-
' masters and schoolmistresses attached to the poor law were
paid out of the consolidated fend is this country. Bach wee
sot the ease in Ireland, when the tare. pressed so griev-
unity. No assistant, of that kind was given is that country
—(hear)—sad hs would ask the hoes* to consider whether
it was not highly unjust that Bath should eiratinue to be the
we.
Mr. HUMS mold that be would rather have tithes charges
withdrawn from the isosoalidated fund.
Mr. BRIGHT said that he wished for • moment to make
an alth•lost is the salaries paid to the ftcretaries of the Poor-
law Commission. Looking at the estimates he found that
the Presidia{ of the Poor-law Board had 2,0001. • year,
while the two surstarlas bad 1,6001. a year each. its was

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 28, 1850.

rnn tits! tt wool be me

M the noble lard

(Lord Ebriegion), who was ease of the ism sire, ma had
a seat In that bums, if be *see to say that it was mard that
be, 7nsiLletatecetvett rite salary et 1,6001. a year, while
eke say 2.09111 a year. TM predigest skoald
be a um ef. agile, steadily, cad having a grease degree of
responsibility. if the smestmiss were to Yam 1,9001 a
year, and the presideetb salary to remain where it was, they
wield be absadantly paid. He woe quite satisited that the
salaries of he lIMINtirW were hr too high, sad he wished
to Wag the matter under the goadderatbea of the right hen.
gentleman.
After a few wends from eh H. Ynnerm,
Mr. DRUMMOND wished to impress on the his. gen-
tleman the member for MOWN.' the necessity of having
some antral board of makoemy,
Alderman SIDNEY emplaned of the large ram *Bowed
for the expenses of the poor-law laspeston.
Mr. BAINES said that at present the seersteries, together
with the proddeat, right be mosidered se the representatives
of the Board a Commissioners which did mist nadir the
former reguladon, end was somposed of three OD•nais-
stoners who had salaries 2,0001. • year sack. It would
be observed, then, that the whole of their salaries amounted
to 6,0001., whereas at present they were timely 6,0001. shag«
thee, asking • saving d 1411901. a year. With referent* to
the inspectors, it had bsim asked what duties they had to
perform ? They stead is the piste of those who, in the etc
set of parliament whisk had hem passed ea the subject,
were celled easitese-memintiewn. ow they were galled
inspectors. All Methane a the original amistaate, ether
with additional mini tome east oa them. as emiereil
that to these isepsetem might be attributed any deem of
sooner that may have allinded the wedging et the poor
law. The mato/ d suitor essamielenem under the
former set wee 9; nailer the pesseet h We unlimited,
and kin pramemor led made the amber U. With regard
to their salaries the junior dem had 7001. a year, with a
guinea a day for travelling expeetese.
After an explanation bola Alderman SIDNIT,
Mr. BRIGHT said that he did not think the right hon.
gentleman had given • satisfactory answer to albeit the ob-
servation made by himself or by the hon. member for
Statiord. He stated that at present there were two were-
lark s and a president who were to be considered in the place
of the board; that the board cost 6,0001. • year, while they
now laid the president and the two secretaries only 6,0001.
a year. Why should they be saddled to pay 6,0001. a year
because they ones paid 6,0001. • year. These secretaries
stood in the same podia's to the right hon. gentleman as the
Under Secretary of State did to his principal. It was absurd
then that he should only have 2,8001., and he (Mr. Bright)
did not parrse to increase it—(lsughter)—while they had
1,6001. He would not comment on the capabilities of these
gentlemen. They might be as good as any they keno-,
but their salaries were too high. Hs intended, therefore, to
move that their salaries be diminished by the sum
necessary to bring them down to 10001. • year each.
The
T CRANCELLOR of theEXCHEQUER said that
the duties of the secretaries fully entitled them to their pet-
not salaries. If they did not, however, there existed a
committee of that house, to which he believed the hon.
member belonged, who were empowered to take into con-
sideration the propriety of making a reduction.
Mr. BRIGHT said that that halo( the cue he would not
then press his motion.
After soma conversation as to travelling expense',
Mr. ARKWRIGIIT moved that instead of eight in-
specters at 7001. • year, and fiat at 5001. a year, the number
should be reduced to eight at 7001 a year.
Mr. Alderman COPELAND supported the motion. It
was quite impoa.ible that taxation could go on on the pre-
sent system, and the government ought to apply their
minds to the question whether the property of the country
should pay the taxation.
Sir R. PRICE said that the question was whether thee
hoard was too large for the purposes for which it was in-
tended. la his opinion, the poor law would be of little use
if they in any degree diminished the power of the board in
London. They should have a hoard of supervisicn to
keep every part of the country under control until one ge-
neral system was adopted.
Sir G. GREY observed that the increase of the number of
Inspectors was founded on the recommendation of the com-
mittee, which went fully into the whole administration of the
poor law.
Mr. BRIGHT would not consent to vote for the propos',
lion of the hon. gentleman unless they had some more in
formation on the subject.
ANL COPELAND said he had bean assured that in the
borough which he had the honour to represent, fur every
abiding spert in the main'enance of the poor, another shil-
ling was spent in maintaining the executive. (lieu.)
Mr. BAINES said that with regard to the number of
inspectors all he could say was, that when the question
caw under discussion in 1847 (there having been nine up
to that time) parliament came to the conclusion that that
numbei was insufileient. The next proposition went to in-
creasing the number to 12, and a clams was introduced
making that the limit, but it was the opinion of the house
that the limit of twelve should be struck out, lest circum-
stene s might at a future day req-iire a greater number.
When his predecessor (Mr. Buller) came into office he consi-
dered maturely the question of the number of inspectors, and
when examined before the committee, gave it as his deltrw-
rate opinion that less than thirteen would not be eh&
dent. On his responsibility he made the number thir-
teen, and everything that had occurred to him
(Mr. Baines) dung the year and a half he had been in
office had led him to believe that thirteen was the proper
number.

The committee vended—
For the amendment
Against it 157-121
A second nivision was taken on an amendment moved by
Alderman SIDNEY for reducing the number of poor-law an•
&Agri. This amendment was likewise negatived by 181 to
58-125.

Un the vote for 227,6001, to defray expanses connected
with the adminktration of the laws relating to the poor,
Mr. W. MILES observed with regard to the item of
35,0001. for the salaries of schlolmasten and schoolmistresses

in unions, that ever since the new system of the government
paying the achinlmuten and schoolmistresses came into
Nitration in 1848, though alterations might have taken
pace in the saluin, thu it:m had always remained the

Mr. BAINES regretted that not having had notice of the
question he was not in a position to ans..? it. And he w.s
not aware that exactly the same sum had been voted since
1846.

W. MILES said it really did seem to him that on
such a vow as this they should have the fullest information.
When the salaries wero adjusted those schoolmasters and
schoolmistresses who were inefficient he presumed would be
discharged. He wished to know whether that had been
done and whether the education of the poor was conducted
in an efficient and proper manner. It was only with this
view that he put the question.
Mr. BAINES could answer that that had been the case
within the last two years. Of count these improvements
were gradual. There was a constant course of improvement
now proceeding.
Mr. Alderman COPELAND thought that in the absencs
of information it was his duty to move that the chairmen
report progress and ask leave to sit again.
Mr. LAW hoped his bon friend would not take the sense
of the house upon that question, because, though it might
be the furthest from his intention, it might seem to amount
to a censure on the right non. President of the Poor-law
Commission, cf whose labours the house had the highest
appreciation. It was to be lamented that his right hon.
friend had not had notice of the question.
Mr. MILES agreed entirely wtth what had been said by
the hon. end learned gentleman. It was not his intention '
to object to this vote, bat he wished to get same information.
As the right hon. gentleman was not able to giTe it, but still
said imprevements were going on in the character of the
schools, that to him (Mr. Miles) was perfectly satisfactory,
and he could only say that the sum of 3.5,0001. to educate
the 60,000 children who were in union workhouses could not
be better spent.
Mr. Alderman COPELAND withdrew his amendment.
The rote was then agreed to.
Oa the vote of 35,0001. to defray the expenditure for the
several branehes of the Mint in reply to Mr. THORNILY,
Mr. SHELL stated that the bens of the florin coin would
be renewed as soon as a new die was ready with the letters
inserted whose omission had occasioned so much public dis-
cussion. A large issue of the threepenny silver coinage was
also ordered for the convenience of small traders.
Alderman COPELAND remarksd upon the frequent re-
fusal of the solicitor of the Mint to prosecute in charges of
passing false money.
Mi. HUME wished to knew when the changes recom-
mended by the Mint commission, now a twelvemonth ago,
would take Whet. The public expected some frail to arise
from that inquiry.
Mr. SHELL said, that in consequence of the report made
by the mist eosamission, the Chancellor of the Exchequer
and the government ►ad directed their attention to the sub-
, prat; and the result was that a representation had been made
Ito the moneys,* and swayers, intimating that their relation
te the mint was to undergo a very speedy and considerable
change. The committee would not expect him to go into
the details of the change, but so time would be lost in carry-
ing it into effect.
Mr. LAW said the subject of the Mint prosecutions was
well deserving the attention of the government °fawn. The
Mint stood in a different position, in some respects, from
other bodies. If the magistrates recommended prosecu-
tions, the officers of the Mint, on their own responsibility,
either took that course or abetsined from it. If they came
into court without sufficient evidence, the court had no
means of disallowing the expenses, as in ordinary eases;
for as the costs of the prosecutions were defrayed by govern-
ment the court had nothing to do with it. Thus, the Mint
was in a position to wire= from prosecuting with
impunity in CUM where they ought to prosecute, and they
might prosecute in oases where they ought not, and still be
sure of their expenses.

The ATTOiNBTOBNERAL explained that the go-
vernment prosecutions were on many sooonnts very reluct-
antly undertaken, the principle being that a public officer
should ppm, all prosecutor except in cease where, from
the nature of the evidence, a conviction was certain.
...

After some farther converse' tion, the vate;;;;;:reted to.
the vote for eertela expellees for the guardiaaihip of the
public !words, wu followed by a complaint from Kr. HOPII.
rewording the insufficient and unsafe depositaries provided
for the mast important national &robins.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that s
vote would shortly be proposed to the home to pay for
buildinn a suitable Record-Mike.
Col. 818THORP moved an amendment to a subsequent
vote, by whieh 6001. was to be »trenched from the salary of
the secretary for Ireland.
The amendseent was lost by 166 to 41 vow
The house altstrwanls reousiod.

COURT OF CHANCERY (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill, after a clause relating the retiring allowance
for the (vetoers of the court had been Inserted, was read a
third Else sad prat