The Express.
London, England, 1861-07-19 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY 19, 1861.

• to be valid, aad the ride was withdraws.He then said that
Ls would withdraw it with the view of considering whether
the selection that might be adoptod would be generally
acceptable to the house. When the Fine Arts Commitsion
Diet, he called attention to the subject, and they did con-
sider whether • generally acceptable selection could be made.
He had never pledged !time& that such • selection should
be made, but only that the question whether it could
be made should be considered, and that pledge
had been redeemed. The question was considered,
and tho commission were of opinion that such •
selection was totally impos.ible. He was never rash enough
to pledge himself that a selection should be made which
would be acceptable. The committee bad also considered
the principle upon which the selection ought to be made,
mid they thought that the proper course would be, as the
aeries of statues was intended to be illustrative of English
history, to take the sovereigns is chronological order, and
sot to select them according to the number of admirer
they might have, or their personal qualities.
Mr. GREGORY asked the right hon. gentleman whether
the other night, whes the government refused to give asy
information ae to Übe memos of the sovereigns to be selected,
he had sot in his possession the report of the Fine Arta
Ooramlesiory ing two of these statues to Mr. Theed,
and two to Sir. Thoeoeycr,ft.
Mr. COWPER said that he, as well as every other mem-
ber of the house, had the report of the royal commission
is his palmation the other night, and be had intimated that
the mosey voted would be spent under the direction of the
commission.

Mr. HADFIELD eiiked whether Oliver Cromwell wits to
have a statue. (Laughter.)
Mr. COW PEA referred the hon. gentleman to the report
of the commiamion.

ILIA.

Mr. TOR RENS asked the Secretary of State for India
whether any reply hail been received from the Governor-
Gauen! of India to the fifth paragraph of the Secretary of
State's letter of the 22nd of December, 1860, relating to
certain claims on the late stele al Onde ; and if not,
whether he had any objection peremptorily to call the
Oovernor•General's only attention to the subject; and,
also, whether it wca intended to pleas the Meioses of her
Majody's Indian artillery regiments, who are now on staff
and civil employ, on the seconded list, se is the nee with
the offieen of the Royal Artillery when so employed.
Sir C. WOOD said, in answer to the first question, that
en reply had yet been received ou the subject from the
government of India. In answer to the second question,
he said that officers in the Indian artillery on staff em-
ployment would be in the same position as all other officers
of the Indian army; they would have the option of either
joining their corps, or retaining their present employments,

opposed to those be had expressed on this subject. When
this negation was under consideration In the select com-
mittee of the House of Lords it appeared there were eleven
peers present., including the late Lord Chancellor, Lord
tftanworth, Lord St. Leonardo, Lord Wensleydale Lord
Chelmsford, and Lord Kingadown—no nieen authorities in
respect to legal appointments ; and, if be had been rightly
informed, the ornuedon of the clause appointing • chief Judge
was moved by Lord Cranworth and agreed to by the com-
mittee, the only opposing peer being the lateLordChancellor.
His hon. and learned fnend was not lees fortunate
as to the unanimity, or supposed unanimity, of
the mercantile community on the subject. In the
committee • high mercantile authority, Lord (*.Moue.
expressed his approval of the rejection of the clause with
respect to the appointment of a judge. (Hear, hear.) With
the exception of the Lord Chanodlor, the committee was
unanimously against the clause.
Mr. COLLIER said he was of opinion that the house
ought to adhere to its former decision. The change pro-
peed could not be satisfactorily carried into operation un-
less the Court of Bankruptcy had a head. Without a bead
it would, with the new jurisdiction to be conferred upon it,
become a scene of confusion worse confounded. The change
in the law of probate and divorce had been highly success-
ful in consequence of the eminent judicial qualities of Sir
Cresswell CresswelL but it would have been a complete failure
if it had been entrusted to officials acquainted only with the
old system. The decisions of a superior judge would have
far more weight than that of commissioners, and be very
much doubted whether the house would have consented to
the abolition of the distinction between traders and
non-traders if they had not supposed that a superior judge
would be appoint-ml. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MAUNS said he should support the opinions which
he bad for • long time entertained, and should not act like
some of bile boo. and learned friends, who had changed their
views upon this subject. (Hear, hear.) He thought the
clauses rdemng to die appointment of the chief judgeshould
be retained, and if they were not, the bill would be worth-
less. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HOLT said, what [educed him to think it would be
wise to agree to the Leads' amendments was, that the proposi-
tion in the bill as it stood before the amendments wee to go
back to • system which was in operation before in the Beak-
route" Court and had failed. He believed that the plan at
:am! single judge and no commissioners would ultimately
and that the routine business might he douse by the
reigietrare with • chief judge superintending, as was done
with to probates. It was clear that the when* now
by the government was not the final scheme, and
therefore be thought it would be better to try the present
system • few years longer.
Mr. ORAW FORD heartily supported the bill.
Mr. HOIISFALL stated that with respect to Liverpool he
found that the Liverpool Chamber of Commerce lad never
been invited to the conference. It had petitioned the Lords
in
.favour of the creditors' assignees, but had expressed no
Larlswith regard to the chief judge. Knowing, as he did,
there was great diversity of opinion on this subject be
had used his own discretion, and voted against what he
considered to be a great waste of public money.
Mr. HADF was of opinion that the bill sbonld be
retained as it esiginally stood. He believed it was the
general wish of the trade of Manchester that there should
be a chief judge, and his own osamituents had urged him to
support the measure in its integrity. They never could
work the bill without a chief judge, and therefore he
should give it his cordial
Mr. TURNER said that support
regard
. to the opinions of '
Manchester he was very sorry to differ with the 48 gentle-
men who had sigma the petition to which aikido° bad been
made, but he believed there was in reality a great diversity
of opinion is Manobsetar on the subject of this bill. For
his ownr heez=t would be • great improvement
if •ju of and authority were appointed,
mad he should therefore vote in favour al the original pro-
position for • dial judge. (Hear, bear.)
Mr. HENLEY admitted there was • considerable diver-
sity of opinion as this matter. He could, however, have
no doubt in his owe mind that if there was any danger to
the non-trading chases in the measure, and it was secemary
feet their safety that the new law should be administered
by a new judge, that all difficulty would be overcome by
the appointment of the Lords Justices. His hoe. sad
learned friend said the commissioners had little to do and
did that badly, yet that • judge should be appointed to
midst them. (Laughter.) In a bankruptcy bill there most
he some appellate jiuiedictioe, in order that all should week
well ; end the real question was, whether them was gull-
, sleet judicial at present kw that . If there
was, all that the tribunal was and satidactecy;
but how could they say whether that tribunal was sea-
dent or not until after • trial? (Hear, hear.) If
it wee found unfit to do the week It would
be easy to add a judge ; but if they appointed
• judge end he was not necessary,, they could
not get rid al him without superannualion. (Heat, hear.)
For he part be believed the existing judicial power Wee
iniSeieeli, and he should therefore support the amendment
es
it stood. (lieu, bear.)
Mr. MOFFATT said the present systemtwisty bed hem
weighed in the %dame drag the leek &ad
had been found essentially wanting. IS was that la-
solveuey in the ease bed deereemd, but be merted,
without fear at that it bed eneentously in-
creased, and chiefly la eoasegosaa et the deludes Mato el
the ley on the subject. In mimed sway rem of Weal-
mem the party milled bis meditate together sad afield a
larger sum in the petted than they knew tizzoittald get
through the Omen of %earwig ; end they
might consider la mem testiness that it was Mae *wil
might to be, it general y happened that they accepted the
edge Every creditor esir that the mousent an estate get
late %abrupter he lest all preedeel control over the assets
of the insolvent, aid the result was that •
waft at the eases of insilmem went into the
Court. Under the blil us it peeped that home he
there would be a resat by erediters be the HMl-
rutiit7 00}Et ; ar himself, he theeght that if they II
net intradose a chief judge who would obtain the ore
rime of the mereantile community they had better Oran-
den the bill ear, ham.)
Mr. WALPOLE M a greet misfortune that this
proposition received so is that house ia commit-
tee, and a Nell pester misfortune that it was altered by •
select committee of the Neese of Lords without any dimen-
sion by them. The ismetioe new before the house, there-
fore, was really am et bet impaled= ; and, trading it I.
light, he wee booed to weallisr only whether a new
judge was really required, with a Wary of 5,0001. a year, to
ouperadeed the adenientestion of this law when it fret went
faith. Frees all he heel bleed le the debeta sue thing wee
clear te Idea, and that was, that it would swards he Inke-
dem the preposition to aiRMo So law efbooloapiey sod
12031•Fet7, aid to intredeee • new velem When 'abatis-
tially imprisonment kr debt bed be alielithed without the
afPolaialthl at a spwmeApe. K. death ea amendment
or the kw el then IdMLwith the enalleel of • emweene
khdet "lid kg very and te that admit,
therm" be was in favour of the bales it weld up to the
Hume al Linda DM as this wee an experiment blab re-
quired further %sideline—es they must eel consider it a
final settlement of the gmelien of the arlielitheent of the
law with regard le deader end re
de was it or was it
not right that they amid mills the ematey with • new
judge with 5,000 f. a year mien they were obsoletely err,
UM that the swim el • sew judge would he xegaired ? If
they bed bombs eimendilse et that leemeafti of
the =6106 en eleeninent Miro-
• th. ha urge _ the propriety of
g=g the Werrietwellieg power width ha theighth
by the seas mem they hod before adopted,
ereemirof rafting • judgeeldp bankrepWy epee one
the vimehmenthirs for the time beim If Ibis Tiede
amencheent were septieed, he should be gbd to rest the
the
M urea yesyesbar IIIipIi&MPIAMIM of
=igui ire
eselese is courts el appeal. trusting that after the
earrings* bed had a trial it Wadi be seen whether it wee
wary to appoint an indepenieet judge for the purpose.
(Seer, boar.) !Lod if the motion of the Attorney-General
WIMP carried, he thought it might be queetionable, when
they came to the third clause, whether they ought not, in
,eeforiag it to the bill, to hussies* the amendment he bed
lIIEV(Hear, hear.)
OLLICITOR-GENERAL olneuved that, In the
new system proposed by the bill, it was :=re:st
there should be a bead and centre : the
were to he ens as subordinates under the head. Bat
the bill ' for • reduction if the number of raw
Widowers to three, and the Mad clause gave an elastic
power to reduce the number still further by not filling up
vacancies: The bill wee, therefore, • eel[ regulating ma-
chine, bringiog it to the same tuna as that of last year.
Mr. Walpole had assumed that this was as experimental
measure and that the object was to see bow it would
work; but he denied that this was its character ; it
sweated • new and permanent system. Then the chief
judge had been regarded only as a judge of appeal ; but he
was to have had a large amount of original jurisdiction.
In the claims relating to the discharge of bankrupts the
whole commercial morality of the kingdom was confided to
the chief judge, and the effect of the Lords' amendments
was to threw this important function back upon the Cum-
minsioners in Bankruptcy. Other special functions were to
be confided to the chief judge, and to exclude this tune-
tioeary would be to leave out the regulator of the whole
sy
stem. The proposal to clothe the judges of the Court of
Chancery with the duties intended to be soeferred upon
the chief judge would, in his opinion, interfere with the
working of that court, inconveniently mixing up two June-
diction*.

CAIRNS said it was desirable to limit the dis-
cussion to the precise question ruieed—uaniely, there being
in the Landes district live commissioners, with 2,000/. a
year each, was it wise or expedient, by way of experimest,
to add a chief judge, with 5.0001. a year, whose jurisdietios
would be co-ordinate with that of the tire commiseioners—
to appoint, io fact, a sixth commissioner in the London
district' He dissented from the opinion that the appeals
wider the bill would increase ; but, assuming that the num-
ber would be doubled, the prinient appellant inbound, the
lords justices, would be able to disposed them without
delay, theer being at present no sneers. In raped to
uoifonnity of docisious, trials by jury, and the riniskixosat
of bankrupts, be argued that it was a deludes to suppose
that a case had been made out fer the appshismet of •
chief judge.
The house then divided :
For the motion
Against it
The further consideration of the Ude serrimiii was
postponed until Monday next.
DURHAM UNIVERS/Tr BILL

On the motion for going into mrYlw spa Gii
Mr. DANBY !SEYMOUR mid Ad the Oda
whit tie Imp mailmnspaln otlibt Plata Blast Ilavaal•

tages to the youth of the north of England, had greatly de-
generated, and had now only about half the number of stu-
dents which it poememed thirty years ago. It had, in
fact, degenerated into a mere manufacture of the
lower members of the church. The university
had totally failed in ita object, and the present bill did not
touch the root of the evil. The commissioners to be ap-
pointed would he only mock commissioners, and the pro-
posed inquiry would be merely a sham inquiry. They were
empowered to inquire into everything except the real
source of the existing grievances. What he wished was
to make the university a popular sod liberal institution.
He moved that the house should resolve itself into the com-
mittee that day three menthe.
Sir G. O. LEWIS said the bill was framed upon. the
model of the bills for the reform of Oxford and Cambridge,
and it was generally admitted that reform of the University
of Durham was necessary.
Mr. DEEDES m. end the adjournment of the debate.
After a brief discussion the house divided.
For the adjournment 2l
Against it ll6-95

Mr, FEN WICK said the endowments of the university
amounted to 12,0001., while the number of students was
not more than 40, and he attributed the cause of failure to
its connexion with the ecclesiastical body.
Mr. MOWBRAY defended the university.
The amendment was then negatived without a division,
and the house went into committee ; but the Chairman was
immediately ordered to report
sr
The Removal of Scotch Irish Poor Bill, the Dublin
Revising Barristers Bill, the County Car (Ireland)
Act Coatinsance Bill were reed a third time and pulsed.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT-ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill was raid • third time sad pared.
GREENWICH HOSPITAL BILL.

Tile order for the wooed reeding el this bill was die-
eherpd end the bill withdrawn.
HIGHWAYS BILL—ELECTION LAW AMENDMENT

tlpos the suggestion of Mr. B. Brassors,
Sir G. C. LEWIS esmeested to withdraw these two bale ;
sod they were withdraws secordiagly.
The home adjourned at tea miaatu peat 2.

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NA.I7ONAL LITIMOAT INSTITUTION. —The eXOOII-
- of the late Bawls Outhhort, Thick whohouie fur mom.
fasturer, Clisapsido, have just pakl a lapcy at 5%, lees d
duty, to this institution.