The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-10-24 00:00:00

I ture-of cotton in the town of Preston." I have to submit
to' you there is no evidence at all of the existence of any
common fund ; the only evidence we have at all bearing on
the subject is this—Mary Leonard says she was in the habit
for some weeks of paying money to a man named Joe. She
began with a penny, and advanced it finally to 6d, but to
Joe who, or Joe where, nobody knows. In point of fact
there was not a tittle of evidence to show who Joe was, by
whom he was deputed to wait upon those parties, or
whether there was a common fund in existence at all. And
for aught that appeared there Joe, might have been an im-
poster— may have represented himself as a, person' autho-
rised to receive money, and in fact having no such authority.
She says she-never attended a club, never had her name re-
corded in any club, and all the evidence we have on that
point is, that a man named Joe was in the habit of calling
on her, and she paid to him three different sums, advancing
as the weeks went on. Then, Sir, in addition to that I
have to submit to the Bench, even supposing there was a
common fund, admitting it for the sake of argument, yet
according to her own showing it was not a common fund to
obtain an advance of wages for the working people em-
ployed in the manufactories in Preston. She says it was a
common fund for the purpose of supplying means to those
who had turned out.
Mr. SEGAR : For an advance of wages.
Mr. Sergt. WILKINS : Not a word about an advance of
wages. Her statement was the monies were to be paid to the
men who had turned out. Now, I submit, there is no evi-
dence at all of any common fund being in existence. I have
further to submit there is no evidence, supposing there was
a common fund, that it was for the purpose alleged in the
conviction, and on those two grounds I apprehend the con-
viction must fail. The fact of calling her a " knobstick"
would rather go to show a different offence to this alleged in
the conviction. Every body knows when a person is assailed
by work-people, and called a " knobstick," they mean not
that he is a person who will not subscribe to certain funds
to enable them to pay certain monies to advance wages, but.
a "knobstick" was a man-supposed to work under tbs. *Alit-
nary rate of wages, and, therefore, as they suppose, injuring
the common interests of the trade to wia;en they may belong.
But let us look at the evidenea adduced. I can't help think-
ing there has been—l iv on't say tampering, because I have
too high a rsspect for the gentleman who conductsthis case to
suppose that he had tampered with the witnesses, more than
the strict jealousy of justice would warrant—where was the
necessity, if the parties had given their evidence before the
magistrates, when they are presumed to have the facts fresh
in their memory, when the party is smarting under injury,
and presumed to be more fully alive to the sense and nature of
the injury than at a remote period—where was the necessity
for the solicitor to have those parties to his house. The
woman won't swear she was not there six times, the boy was
there several times, and on each occasion he was spoken to
as regards this case, this evidence was read over to him.
And when we find the only evidence that of a child
eleven or twelve years old, and when he is compelled to ad-
mit he was taken by the policeman, and informed at the
same time if he told all he knew he should not be punished,
thereby leading one to infer he had done something to be
punished for, that he was in point of fact just
as culpable as any other person of his age,
who was then in the crowd. Let me ask the bench if they can
place any reliance on that testimony, when they find the boy
admitting he did not say a word before the Magistrates con-
nected with the subject of money at all. That he has since been
two or three times with the solicitor, and his evidence has
been read over to him. He has been tampered with by a
policeman, and inducements have been held out which ought
not to have been held out to a child. What reliance can
the bench place on this testimony ? He never said a wordbe-
fore the magistrates about the assailant legging the woman,
and not a single word about the money, and it was quite
clear this was an after thought. The conviction was drawn
in a form which rendered it absolutely necessary to show
that such was the intention of the parties engaged in the
affray. Before the conviction was drawn, before either pro-
secutors or .the child, or even the solicitor himself knew
what the form of the conviction would be, not a syllable is
heard about the money.
Mr. Segar : Sergeant Wilkins is assuming a fact contrary
to the truth, and not proved. It is disagreeable to go into
principles of this sort.
Mr. Sergt. WilaisTs : It is a most remarkable fact when
it is discovered, in order to make out the conviction, that
such evidence should be given, then;and then only do they
think proper to depose as they have done to day about any
thing being said respecting money. What does this young wo-
man say ? Her statement is that she was coming out of the
factory, and she saw several persons, men and women, lads
and lasses. How does it happen, if the parties who institu-
ted those proceedings were anxious for a conviction—
if they were anxious to give the magistrates, according
to the language used by them at - the time of the
conviction, the power and determination to protect people
in the honest discharge of their duty, how does it happen,
with a crowd of men and women, and people of all classes
assembled, they cannot fix on any one, and that they should
select that poor little urchin, who, I dare say, if the con-
viction be looked upon as a matter of common sense, did
just as the other boy did. He saw the crowd ;he saw some
PTrifomprit followd the crowd; very likely when he was
in the crowd, ho hootod as tho twriArs Mu. v-v-Rat, is it!'
Is it consistent with common sense—is it worthy the vindi-
cation of the law, to take a child like that, and place him in
the position he is, on a charge of this description, where he
does not understand one out of every ten words I utter, and
who certainly would have no notion of what the charge was
for having such a farrago read to him as the conviction I now
hold in my hand ? Does any person show this woman was
unable to work for several weeks ? The medical man is not
called. Does any one say this boy committed an act of
violence ? Till to day, they never ventured to say he intended
to use violence towards her. Ido not believe that statement
from the means taken to induce it to be made. I submit,
therefore, that the bench cannot say there was violence used,
that there was no evidence to shew the existence of a com-
mon fund—the whole affair was a childish one, and ought
to be treated as such, and without meaning anything dis-
respectful, it furnishes a proof, that some men are but
children of larger growth.
CHAIRMAN : There are three other cases of the same kind.
Mr. SEGAR : There are.
The CHAIRMAN then intimated they would hear the
evidence in all the cases before giving a decision.
The case of Mr. William Parkinson! was then called on.
Mary Leonard repeated her evidence in this case, adding
however, that the crowd called out that she would not pay
the money for the weavers who had turned out for an ad-
vance of wages. The other witnesses were re-examined in
this case, and deposed to Parkinson using violence towards
Leonard. Alice Monk proved the payment of the money
to her from the common fund for several weeks whilst out
on the s!rike for advanced wages. They closed the case
against Parkinson, and the next case was about being
called when,
Mr. Sergeant WimusTs said it was something new to him
for the court to go into other cases before deciding upon the
first heard. Holme asked for a decision, and he respectfully
solicited it on his behalf. The court must have seen the
respondents were seeking to patch up their case as they
went along, and as the various defects were pointed out. It
was not fit, he should submit, when the evidence in the case
of Holme had closed, the court could not on any principle
whatever of justice, take into consideration evidence given
in a subsequent case. The court embodies the functions,
both of judge and jury, and they were bound, as much as
a jury, at the close of the case, to give a decision ; he, there-
fore, with great earnestness, .but with great humility, asked
the bench to give their decision in each case.
The' magistrates then consulted together.
The CHAIRMAN then announced the decision of the bench
was, that the case of Henry Holme should stand over until
the other cases had been heard. They had gone through
the second case, and were about to commence another ; but,
in consequence of an observation from Mr. Sega; the bench
was called on to give a decision in the case of Holmes, with-
out waiting for the other cases. The court had taken this
into eunsideruthm, and had not yet begun to decide or deter-
mine on the case of Holme, and were not going to pronounce
an opinion on it until the further consideration he should
mention. We have considered the question whether the
appellant has the right to call on the court to make an im-
mediate decision, and were of opinion it could not be de-
manded as a right. It was a question on which they had a
right to take time for consideration and reflection. But
although they did not think it could be demanded as a
matter of right, yet, if knowing it was the usual, and indeed
the ordinary course of this court to pronounce sentence as
early as possible after the verdict, and he might say to give
the verdict as early as possible after the evidence—they had
concluded it was expedient to determine the case of Holme,
and the court would take into consideration whether to
affirm or reverse the decision. He stated the decision of the
court iu those terms, because the deliberation they had had
in no degree turned on the propriety of this conviction, or
of reversing or affirming it. They had only considered the
question of right, and expediency of the time at which the
matter should be considered, and he did not ask any one of
the magistrates whether his opinion was in favour of affirm-
ing or reversing the conviction.
Mr. Sergeant WiLnisrs respectfully asked the court to
take the conviction with them. He was sure the bench
would not take any evidence given in the last case, as to the
existence of a fund, because he was quite prepared to show
that did not appear in the case.
The CHAIRMAN: We shall only consider the evidence
given in the case of Holme. The magistrates then retired,
and after an absence of about twenty minutes came into
court :—The Chairman intimated they had considered the
evidence, and had resolved to adjourn the decision in the
case of Itolme to the next intermeliate sessions.
Mr. Sergt. WiLnins: Was willing they should stand
over. The form of conviction was preciselythe same in all

the cases.
The CHAIRMAN remarked it was not the form of con-
viction, it was evidence adduced.
Mr Sergt. WILKINs: I would throw out a •suggestion,
which I think would be conducive to the public good. It is
quite clear I have the advantage of addressing no ordinary
bench. Without wishing to pay any fulsome compliment, I
may say never, at any, Quarter Sessions here, have I addressed so
learned a bench as the benchl now address, composed chiefly of
members of the profession of which I have the honour to be
also a member. It is quite clear this is a question involving
great doubts. That being the case, and those doubts being
entertained by persons capable of fully investigating and dis-
criminating on the evidence laid before them. Wishing to

THE NORTHERN DAILY TIMES.

be a peacemaker if possible, as well as an advocate here on
behalf of the appellants, I would suggest whether it would
not be generous on the part of those who had brought the
children before the Court, that they should, on the doubt
entertained in the minds of justices, withdraw from furthr pro-
ceedings in the charge, against them. In the first.place, I
would respectfully ask the gentlemen who have instituted
these proceedings to look at the age of the appellants. - I woul
ask them whether they think they are of discretion and
powers of mind to be benefitted or corrected by still further
punishment, even supposing there should have been a conicv-
tion. I ask them if they don't think the parents of those child-
ren will appreciate their generosity and kindness, and that
those children will be better themselves for not being allowed
to be in the atmosphere of a gaol. The governor I believe to
be an excellent man, and the magistrates who meet here are
an honour tothe county—the gaol is conducted as well as a
gaol can be, and I ask them to pause and reflect what:will be
the effect on the future lives and on the minds of those child-
ren—what the influence on their characters in future life may
be if they should be punished further for an offence which
certainly does not come within the ordinary characteristic of
crime—to be still further breathing the atmosphere of a
gaol, to be still further humiliated, and for some purposes
rendered unfit for those more active duties to which they
may be called. I throw this out as a suggestion, and ask it
as a boon. I believe it will be wise and prudent on the
part of the masters to treat this matter with generosity,
with liberality, and by so doing they will convince many of
those poor fellows who are on the strike, and with whom
they are in collision, that they are not actuated by Any
vindictive feelings, and are anxious to preserve only..
Mr. SEGAR : After the appeal that has been made by Mr.
Sergeant Wilkins I cannot remain .3ifent. I very much
fear the persons to whom thofr appeal is made will hardly
feel themselves justi...t in acceding to it. We know the
have -6ctu. indeed a very lamentable experience of their con-
history of the transactions in this country very well ; we
sequences, and it is very much tobe feared that this violence
which has commenced, may be said to be comparatively tri-
fling when compared with what it may be hereafter, if it is
felt there is no power above them, that the law is not strong
enough to repress those offences, and protect workman wil-
ling to work in the free exercise of their own judgment. If
those parties are to dictate whether those men are to
work or not, we must undoubtedly expect by and bye,
that it will be impossible to live in the town. It is a very
plausible pretext that those are young persons, but we know
how exceedingly. difficult it is to prove an offence of this
kind against an individual, and how common it is in affrays
of this kind to put forward young persons, with a view of
escaping the severer punishments which would be sure to
follow to persons of more mature years. I do not feel myself
justified in saying it would be safe for the peace of the town
to [pass over an offence of this kind without some security
that the offence would not again take place. The object,
undoubtedly, is not to punish those young persons ; but the
law provides no other means of repressing those offences,
except one which would render those parties liable to
imprisonment for two years. They might be prosecuted
for riot and assault, and the punishment would be much
more severe. In point of fact, the persons by whom I
am instructed, are the justices of the borough. They exer-
cised their judgment for the preservation of the public
peace, and to preserve the property of the township. Under
those circumstances. I don't feel I could be justified in
saying that no offence had been committed, or that I ought
to withdraw from the prosecution. Under these circum-
stances, knowing how exceeding difficult it is to get evidence
to those cases, and because' this is the beginning of those
transactions, and those are young persons, I cannot accept
the suggestion which the good sense of the learned Sergeant
has made, because I feel, indeed I cannot but feel the
defence is not the defence of the 'boy, but is the defence of
the combination.
Mr. SERGEANT WILKINS : I beg most distinctly to
declare the suggestion has occurred to my own mind;
that I have not heard a syllable from a human being ; I
merely, as a gentleman, interposed as a mediator to bring

about-peace.
Mn. SEGAR : I know that this course has been suggested by
the benevolent feelings of our learned Sergeant ; but the
very fact of his presence here proves it is not the defence of
the appellants here, but that it- -is continued up to the
present time to be the defence of the combination. If I
could see it was not the defence of the combination. If I
could see the combination 'on the contrary condemn
such a proceeding and would not encourage it, there would
be some ground for consideration whether it was not fitting
to allow this boy to escape without punishment. The court
cannot but feel that up to the present moment it is the de-
fence of a combination. And taking my full share of responsi-
bility, I have no instructions, and cannot volunteer to act on
the learned Sergeant's suggestion. If it were consistent
with the peace-of the town that they might be left out with-
out punishment, undoubtedly I should listen to it. If any-
thing can be suggested that will answer the ends of justice
and preserve the peace of the town, I should wish it.
Mr. Sergeant Wriacms : I have the utmost confidence in
my case. I have not the least doubt of success ; but because
I thought I might furnish the opportunity of conciliating
those parties, I threw out the suggestion: and when my learn-
ed friend talks of this defence being the defence of the com-
inflation, ne should also recollect tins la taw ol a
combination ; because, I cannot believe that any gentleman
alive, in the exercise of his own discretion, could suppose,
for one single moment, that he was benefiting society by
prosecuting children like those.
Mr. SUGAR said, the difficulty of Mr. Sergeant Wilkins'
suggestion arose from the court having no discretion. The
court had differed on one case, and it was possible it might
differ in the others. He proposed the court should hear the
evidence in all the cases, and then they might think fit to
adjourn the consideration of all of them to the next Sessions,
and possibly there might be no occasion to ask the court for
judgment at all. He meant, only the court would adjourn
its decision. A long consultation here took place amongst
the council, and at its conclusion.
Mr. Sergaent WILKINS rose and said, the ends 'of justice will
be furthered, and good effects produced by respecting those
cases—one statement I (must make ; I know no one will
presume that I was admitted into the arcana of the seerats
of the trade combination, I know nothing of them; but this
much I can venture to state, resolutions as stringent as
resolutions can be made, have been entered on the books of those
men not to violate the law. Ido *now they have entered
into resolutions, that any man who does willingly and
knowingly violate the law shall receive no pay, nor any
sanction from them, and I may be allowed to say this, I
have read some of those manifestoes • whether rightly or
g
origin and conceptions Of the turn-out, I don't
stop rone h
quire, and it is gratifying tome to discover much
m
its
slaid on argament than on anyth'ng like a w
el hereto e
stress in
t o
in
vio-
lation of the law. The manifestoes these men have put out
have met with approbation, for their composition, and
reason in support of their cause, have met with the appro-
bation of some of the highest men in the land. I know
their resolutions are not to break the law, and before I sit
down I may be allowed to occupy the Court, to endeavour,
in the name of my common country, to beg and implore of
both sides to look well as to what they are doing. I beg
of the masters more especially, because the country expects
much from them on the score of education and knowledge.
I beg and implore of them not to withhold conciliation on
the score of pique or prejudice. I beg of the working
classes to bear in mind that every day they are abstaining
from labour, and by keeping other persons from labour, they
are inflicting a wrong and an injury on the country which
their children may feel when they are dead. I
look at the season that is coming in. I. look at the
number of men accustomed to habits of industry being
inured to indolence, and the more I look at the consequences
that must result to their morals as well as to their inclina-
tions in this position.—l look.at the sacrifices it produces ;
I look at the other signs of the times that are manifest to
us all, and when I look at the consequences which must re-
sult unless some salutary measures be adopted, I tremble for
them ; and I implore both parties in the name of our com-
mon country to mark well and consider what they are doing,

asking them to remember they are subjects of one common
community, and by the individual wrong of either, especi-
ally. by the aggregate wrong of the multitude, they may
inflict an injury on this country which ages yet unborn may
have reason to regret.

Mr. SEGAR : .1
would again repeat that this prosecution
has been instituted with an entire freedom from any spirit,
or the slightest degree of pique or vindictiveness
on the part of those who conducted the prosecution,
their anxious desire from the first was, if a case
of clear and distinct intimidation were proved, then
this violation of the law should be, and certainly would be
vigourously dealt with. This object has been to some ex-
tent obtained, and certainly they are not disposed to press any
case against any person in this town, and particularly dur-
ing a period of excitement, and when there are strong temp-
tations to do that which under other circumstances the
party charged with the offence would be the last persou to
do. I have only to say I fully concur in the observations
made by the learned Sergeant, as to the deplorable and fear-
ful consequences which must ensue, and wishing that what
he has said may terminate the dispute. If this inquiry
tends towards that end, at least it has done some good.
The case may be respited generally.
The CHAIRMAN : The court accedes to this without pre-
judice. These thve cases will stand over to be heard, if
circumstances should make it necessary, they should be
heard at that time. Therefore, I need say no more than this
observation, which I feel myself called upon to make, and I
will endeavour to say nothing that I believe will not have
the: perfect concurrence of every gentlemen who sits near
me. Looking at the great contest which has been going on,
and comparing it with what we have witnessed at other
times, there is a stronger sense, and I may do that justice to
the operative classes, to say that I believe there is on their
part a stronger sense than ther was then, of the impropriety
and the impolic3.7 of violence of any kind. That whatever
these cases are, just or unjust, it is not to be promoted by
violence, Ic an remember the contest that took pla^e, and

I have strong reason to remember the contest- that took
place in 1842, and I have known others of that description,

and I think there is a greater disposition both to keep the
peace, and to use their influence with others to keep the
peace, than there was at that time. And I may say, I feel
in common with all my friends here, it is a step in the right
direction. I wish to all parties—whilst I counsel
moderation and conciliation to all parties—l wish
particularly the operative classes, who from a necessarily de-
fective education, may be most likely to be led into violence,
would persevere in the step in the right direction, and would