The Express.
London, England, 1861-04-19 00:00:00

POdITION Or OFFIOERS PROMOTED PROM THE

Mr. WIEVOY asked Z01.77;c0r flooretary of Moto for
War irlbstbar it yr Wooled Ws year tu tar 117 *tops

to improve tie position, with regard to the retirement, of
these combithutt oaken in the army who were promoted
from the tanks, so es to enable them to count their services
is the mks, is the same manner as is now permitted to
quartermasters and paymasters.
Mr. RARING said that the warrant which had reatived
die approval of the Queen contained the following alters-
lecsexth regard to the number of
_jean of service for the
referred to. For retired full-pay, 15 yews service
alb ranks in addition to IC, veers service as • commis-
; Amid officer. For half-pay, or reduction of full-pay, one
year's ferries as a full-commissioned &beer and five years'
service before as a non-commix,ioned officer. For perma-
nent' half-pay, 15 years service previous to promotion,
when the officer has served tea years as an officer.
THE VOTE OF CREDIT FOR THE CHINA WAR.
In answer to Sir R. Norrncors,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
lie whole of the balsam of the 3,10,0001. "tad for the
270 f the Chins wer which had bees unexpended was
tryable out of the balances is the Exchequer. The
reason why • further vote of credit of 1,000.0001. Was
required, when there was an unexpended surplus of
800,0001. oo the vote taken last year, was that it would be
what was Doesasary to cover the whole renaming charge
he the Chins war.

BERWICK ELECTION.
Mr. MELLOR malted the Swetary of State for the Rome
Dipartment whether his atteatioe had been drew to the
following paragraph in the report of the commissioners
impure MAO the eZiatelC• of 00,1111 pt practices et
hiulirt election for the borough of Berwick-upon-Tweed :-
102% all the circumstances combined, we an forced to
the coaclasion that a distinct understanding existed bin
*Paw Mr.' Hodgson cm the cgs baud, and Waite sad
'mum ea the ether that they should me say iallseace,
hewer" egerept„ whie behalf at the WYNN and that the
mosey by MV/ill is bribery was actually furl/idled
by Mr. Wipes with a corrupt intent." And whether It
was his isteetiou to take any steps is the matter.
Mr. CLIME said be expected the report of the tatiMaill-
skim= would be reedy in a few days.

THE AUIFFRIAN GOVERNMENT AND GARIBALDL
Mr. D. ORDTITH asked the Secretary of State for
Foreign Adam whether any circular or other despatch bad
been received hem the Italian gummiest, or whether in-
formation bad reached him from say other source, status(
AM agues of the Austrian government are seeking to ob-
tain, by perchmse or otherwise, coatis, or other documents
of identlication of Garilialdian or other volunteers leaviag
the Italian service ; and, if so, whether any, and what, com-
munication had been made by the government to the Air
than goverameat.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that -go such circular or
despatch bad bees received by her Majesty's government;
at the same time be might slue he bad bees informed that
a rumour prevailed at Turin that such mar ma the boo.
geatleman had alluded to had bees resorted to by officers
in the Austrian service. He bad not made any fusel re-
presentation oil the subject. He did mention it eaoselly to
the Austrian Ambassador, who told him that he had not
heard of any such report, and that he did act believe in the
rumour.

ARMY ZEITIMATFM—SUPPLY.
Oa the motion for going into committee of supply,
Sir F. SMITH rose to ask the Under Seenstasy of
Stele fee War if any steps had been taken towards.
Icor og a central depot for the war department stone;
and, if so, whether it was to be a mere appendage te Wool-
wick Arse al, or whether any maaufacttuiog operation
wese ho bre earned on there ; sad, if any works provided for
in the vote taken in August last for fortificatioes had
been einnmenced ; and if it was now contemplated not to
conetroct some el the works that had been determined
upon?
Colonel DICKSON, r ea amendment oe the motion for
gulag into committee en the army estimates, moved that the
moo deration of the army estimates should be deferred, with
a view to their revision. Whatever wee the fate of
the motion, it would give boo. gentlemen an opportainty of
discussing the whole question, and of inesiderung what re-
&union ought be made in the various items. The country
was looking for a diminution of expeaditure, of which It
was weary and sick. He believed they were acting at the
same time with peddling parsimony and profuse extrava-
gance, sad he trusted the house would agree with him that
the estimates should be amply and fully revised. (Hear.)
Mr. BARING did not think the hoe. and gallant gee-
Vegan bad assigned any sufficient granola for patrolling
the eansidsnation of the estimates. On the contrary be
almond completely how every point could he disposed of in
oteendttee. The boo. gentlemansaid that the arm eat.
mates meenated to 16,000,000 i. intend of 14,000,000f.y , bet
he did satcollect from him oe what ground he made that
statement. He admitted that the colonial expenditure
ought to be attentively eoesidered, and he trusted that ad-
vantage would molt from the labors et the committee
which was now sitting on that subject. The hoe. end
loot gentleman stated that the expenditure now was
tzthan is 181:4-54„ when the War-offios and Horse
existed. But he had not taken into consideration the
increase of fore which had taken place since that period.
If he had dowse he would Dave found that the relative ex-
peaditare was Ire this year than it was at the period to
which be referred. The same remark applied to the in.
creased expenditure for barracks which were built in order
to give better accommodation to soldiers and their wives.
(Hear, her.) The hon. and gallant geothiesan said that
12,000,0001. had been voted for fortification last year. The
total estimate for those works was 5,000,0001., as the act of
parliament bound the government to expend the money
only on the works which were mentioned In the schedule of
the act. He did not think that any general point had been
raised by the boo. and gallant gentleman, and he could only
my that when the particular items referred to come Defoe
the committee he should give any further explanation in his
pewee with regard to them.
Colonel DUNNE hoped the house would not agree to
these estimates till the hon. gentleman Ind afforded to the
hones each information r would enable them to judge
whether the money had been properly laid out.
Mr. OSBORNE was glad the bun. and gallant gentleman
had called attention to the army estimates, anal to this great
Aldershott job. (Hoer, hear.) The money of the country
had been wasted ie that demoralising proceeding, which
'after all was only en indifferent preparatory school for tenu-
re Indifferent generals. (Laughter.) He hoped the hon.
rut pliant gentleman who laughed would give the hone
his experience of that most demoralising school. They had
erected cavalry barracks, a riding school, and, in fact,
a kind of pram there on which they sunk 1,540,000 t.
(Hear, hear.) He had been told by general officers that
these gigantic jobs ',mild never cease as log as the House
of Commons aniered things in this way, and voted the
money of the people with such facility. These barracks
seemed to have been erected with the probiematicel view of
making indifferent brigadier.. lie would suggest to the
bon. and pliant gentleman, however, not to divide the
house, because they could revise any of the estimates in
committee, "ad in the present temper of the hone be
believed they would be ready to do so if a good
case was mad* out. lot year they were hurried
into voting 11,000,000 f. of moor Ibr fortification,
but they could now get no satisfactory aesoont as to how
the money had been expended. No lees than 2,800,0001.
was to be laid out in Portsmouth, and it was said that
Portedowe-hill was to be formed into another Torres Vedras.
But Torres Velma was, be believed, formed of rock,wheress
Portadown-bill wasall chalk ; and he was told that there
was nothing so easy for a hostile army to info as chalk,
because no galleries or support' were required. (Hear,
hear.) They were going to mount 226 guns apropl
which would require 2,260 men to work. He
the government would give some explanatios of
what they were going to do with Portadown-hill.
It mime .net the other day, at a meeting of the Naval Archi-
tects' Society, at which the right hon. baronet the member
for Droitwieh (Sir J. Pakingtoo) presided. that some of the
forts about to be built were to be fined with iron. That had
been stated on the authority of Admiral Elliott, and had
Dot sines been controverted. A mat able pamphlet had
been written on this subject by a gallant officer to prove
that these forts were not wanted at all, and would
only serve as a beacon for an army coming in. He had
heard with satisfaction the observations of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer the other evening about the increasing
expenditure of the country—(bear, hear)—and he did
entreat the house to pause about this gigantic scheme,
involving such a gigantic expense. (Hear, bear.) Let
Aldershott be a warning before their eyes ; let them not go
sod plunge into this euormous expense for erecting nine
distinct forts on Portadown-hill ; and he implored the go-
venetian not to hurry the Louse into doing that by the
most objectionable means of ridging a loan for the purpose.
(Hear.) He thought these were times when it became the
Chancellor of the Exchequer Dot only to lecture the house
on the question of the public expenditure, but when he
ought also to give the house his distinct opinion upon these
votes. He had very good reason to suppose that both
the Chancellor of the Exchequer the President
of the Board of Trade were opposed to these
votes. Ho hoped, when the Under Secretary for War
roes to reply to this motion he would go into details as to
Dow this large sum wee to be expended at Portadown-hill
He (Mr. Osborne) believed we ought not to go on with these
forts at all—they were entirely in the hands of one man,
who was nut at the head of his profession. He knew that
cogieeers differed mot materially on this point, and the '
house ought to pause before they agreed to these most oto
jectionable fortificatioos. He Loped, however, that his hon.
friend would not press his motion to a division.
Colonel NORTH cold not agree with his bon. and
pilot friend (Mr. Osborne) that Aldershot produced oily
indifferent briodier-generals. On the contrary, they had
always shows their gallantry and done their duty equally as
well as any other of in the world. (Hear.)
Colonel LINDSAY observed that Do one who took part
in the operations at Aldershon could do so without adding
to the information he had before. He did not believe, how-
ever, that camp was formed with foresight, and be had
not the slightest doubt that the large sum of money ex-
pended upon it might have been much bents expended in
other ways. (Hear, hem)
Colonel GILPIN said he had occupied the new barracks
at Aldershot". Whether they were built oe an economical

principle or not he could not my, but the barracks for the
men were the best be ever kuew— much better than those
for the officers ; and ho believed if the government had
searched England through they could not have obtained •
bettor position for the purples.
Mr. MONSELL pressed the necessity of a revision of the
estimates with a view to a reduction of their amount. He
drew a comparison between the expenditure on certain 1
items connected with the army in 18.53-54 and now, and '
next drew attention to the much smaller expense at which
, the utmost efficiency was obtained in several corresponding
departments in the French army.
PEEL pointed out that in fact the estimates did
Dot wovide for the number of men voted, which would be
4,000 in excess of the money voted to pay for them.
Viscount PALMERSTON said the course pursued by
hon. gentlemen wes inconvenient, unless their object was
to ask questions and to make oteervat ions to whieb thereeould
be neither refutation nor reply. The venal course of pro
*Win upon army estamates had been founded upon good
sense, and was well adapted to the convenience of the house.
The Speaker was moved out of the chair, and the house
went into committee. When in commute, 11137 number of
questions might be put by any speaker, and his hon. friend
the Under-Secretary of State might rime and answer them
any number of time without violating the orders of the
boas*. The matters which were to be discussed were
divided into a great number of heads, and were taken
one after the other no that each subject might be
kept separate and distinct. On this occasion, however,
members bad got up and discussed the details of votes which
were ranged under two or three and twenty different heads ;
and when his bon. friend bad mice spiiken, he could gamer
Do further questions that might be put to him. It followed,
therefore, that all the observations whi:h had been made,
so far aa answer. rafneaties, or explanation west, were of
no practical utility whatever. lie trusted that the hon.
member would not press his motion but would allow the
house to go into committee, when all these questions might
be aaswered in committee with the votes to which they re-
apectively referral (Hear, hear.) He -(tho noble lord)
should have moaned himself to that request, had it not
been for what bad fallen from the member to Liaised (Mr.
Bernal Osborne). His lion. friend was very fond of sweep-
ing assertions, end had a most ample vocabulary of strong
won's. Everything that he disapproved of was •
job ("Hoar, hear," from Mr. Osborn, sad leesb.
ter.) Everything that he did not like was ab-
surd, ridiculous, foolish, nod preposterous ; but judg-
ieg from the military opinions which he had given that
evening, he (the noblelord) must congratulate the country
that its defences Old nut depend upon his hon. friend's
knowledge or deeincei. (Hear, hem.). The hon. pot
le-
man said, ' Look at that extravagant job et Aldershott."
(Mr. 0111106141: "Her, hear.") He (Lord Palmerston) de-
nied that it was •job at ell. (Hear, bear.) On the eon-
wary , he asserted that there Dever wee • wiser
application of public mosey, or a more advent*.
gem) or economical one. It was formerly one of
the gnat wants of the British army, that it bad'
ao aline where any large number of men could be &mem-
bled far the purpose of learning combined movements. That
feeling was es strongly impressed on the mind of the govern-
meat, then before Aldershot, was purchased Cheatham was
taken. Now, Chobham was very expensive, sod • large
mmi had to be mild in compensation to the owner, of the
ROWS rights. which were motorised with by the formation
of the camp. Aldershott, on the other hand, had only met
151. an acre, and anybody would say that them could
h
ardly be a better investment in hind than that
Why, if the property should ever cease to be wooded
for the public service, it could be sold again
for many times the sum which bad been expelled in its
porcine'. (Hear, hear.) Then his boa, friend ainsedeined
of the huts ; but those beta were required suddenly. Per-
haps, as it had turned out, it might have been man Judi-
eioas to have built them of bricks • but that would bey,
taker • much longer time ; and He wooden huts were at
any rate much better than tents. As to the effect of Alder-
ahott in forming regiments, in forming officers and gemmed*
no military man who knew anything about the matter
would concur with his bon. friend in saying that it had
been useless. (Hear, hear.) He hoped, therefore, that these
light and violent expressions of opinion—(shingh)—which his
hon. friend was eo fond of throwing right and left would Dot
Mad any sanction from the house. (Hear, bear.) His hon.
friend talked about the demoralising effects of the camp.
He (the noble lord) rally did not know what the hon. mem-
ber meant by that ; but this be could say, the troops at
Aldershot% had been more healthy than any other body of
nee in her Majesty's service. (Hear, bear.) With regard
to Portedownhill, his hon. friend, who had erected himself
into the supreme judge in all military matters, pro-
claimed his opinion that if he were shut up in the
cootemplated works be should beatnikd of being undermined
by the enemy. But miuing and undermining implied •
long siege. (" Hear, hear," from Mr. Oriamorg.) " Her,
bear I" Exa3tly. But did his boo. friend amnion that
they were going upon the assumption that a foreign array
would be left quiet before Portadown-hill till it had com-
pleted its mining operations? (Hear, bear.) Why the
only object we had in constructing these works was to pre-
vent any force that might suddenly be lauded wpen our
coast from taking up a position on that cosnmanifas hill
and destroying our dockyards at Portsmouth. It we'
nonsense to say that an army landing at Chichester
or at any other point within an easy distance, could not
seize Portadown.lsill, if it were undefended, and from thence
damage darn feet and dockyards at Portsmouth. (Hear
hear.) Our object, therefore, was not to resist a mule;
siege, like that of Ooblenu or Mentz, but it was merely to
prevent the enemy taking possession of the hill by • coup
de main. H we could keep it ourselves until the enemy
could take it by undermining, he believed that we shoed
have good reason to be perfectly satisfied with the proposed
works. (" Hear, hear, and laughter.)
Captain JERVIS having spoken,
The motion was negatived.
In answer to Colonel Hoare,
Mr. ?. G. BARING said that steps were being taken to
carry out gradually the recommendations of the select coin-
same on military onainiention, as proposed in the scheme
of the Becratery fur War for re.organising the war depart-
ment. Replying to Sir F. Smith, lie sad that no stein had
been taken for establishing a metre] depot for war stores.
As to fortifications for which a vote had been taken, the
plans had been settled, with some few exceptions of detail,
at Portsmouth and Plymouth. The plans for Pembroke
sad Chatham had not yet been approved. Some progress
had been made in those which had been determined, but it
was under consideration whether any modification should be
made in the original propositions.
Mr. B. OSBORNE made a taunting reply to Lord
Palmentoe's observations, end said that the answer of the
Under-Secretary for War as to the fortifications was most
unsatidactray.
Lent PALMERSTON retorted humorously, and stated
that the plans for the fortifications were undergoing the
most mature cousideratioa ; some hail been determined on,
and others were not sufficiently settled to allow of contract,
being entered into.
The house then went into committee on the army esti-
mates, beginning with the vote fur the pay and allowances
et the land forces.
. _

Oa tia;;;;;Ce for the medical staff,
Colonel DICKSON moved to reduce it by 9,sZtl., the
difference between the estimate for this )ear and th►t of
Lot year.
On a division, the amendment was rejected by 66 to 46.
Oa the item of 1,C031. 14s. 7d. for the major•`eneal
commanding the brigade of Guards and his staff,
Lard A. CHUKCHILL moved its einholen.

As am tort by to EA.
A division took place on a motion to omit the item of
45,0281. for miscrllaneous and contingencies, but the notion
was lost by 122 to 2s,
Several items having been discussed and agreed to, the
house resumed.