The Express.
London, England, 1861-06-22 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 22, 1861.

the eleies of the benne It wes inexpedient no late in
the nenesee to take a leap sum on account in committee of
supply, blistered of takiis the vott, in the usual way.

maiti;AxEr:i cituiccu.

Hr. NORTH asked the Tint Commissioner of Works.,
whether it was intended to contribute public money towards
the maintenance of the fabric ,f Dit. Margaret''. Church, the
niligious service of this house being already proviolosi for by
an expenditure on St. Stephen's Chapel ; red whether it
might not be preferable to take steps for removing to
another spot sr. klsrgaret's Church from the Abbey 0000 rd.
Der. COWPER mid Mt. Margaret's Church had 'for many
years. been the place of worship used by both bourn of
perlismeet on groat occasions, and there were 11141, sent, re-
amed is the oboorth for numbers of both houses on onli.
nary ileadays. On theme grounds it had been the practice
fee many year. for pediment to make grants whenever ex.
tensive repairs were made in that church during the Lest 100
yews. He tle ought there hod been six 00:41Mit,119 MI which
considendole sumu were voted by the Home of Commons to
aid is the repute of the church. It wan not in his con-
templation to propose any grant for that pur-
pose, became • sum wan voted is • former year,
and the sum to which the boo. member had alluded was
ous whirl, had already been noted. Then as to the qua-
two relative to the pulling down of the church, there had
taro.. 11011“, difference of opinion among persona of taste as
to what would be the general effect es to the Abbey of the
removal of the church, sod • committee of this house some

years ago recouirnooded that the church should be re-
moved, and an estimate was resale by Sir Charles Barry of
the cost of another site sod another church. That estimate
was a very large one. and nothing had been done, and ha
Lad nothing under consideration with regard to that matter.

NEW ZEALAND.

Mr. A DDERI,IO.I( asked the Under-Secretary of State for
the Colonies whether, now that the rebellion in New Zen•
land was suppretrual, the government were taking such stops
as would teed to extricate this country from any future im
plicatioe in native pofiey sad whether they would now ad-
vie Mr Majesty to give eased to the Native Council Bill
sent by the New Zsalsed Legiehritsr• for Mr approval.
Mr. FORTISCUII mai he meld sot give my other
mower Om that be pee before, via, thee new governor
of New Zealand. SW George Grey, bed bees appoisted, and
that inane-noes bad been gives to Ms to enesider the
whole arilipsq of the administration of the esieny and re-
port to her Majesty's government. Under those Cifetllll.
steer,. it would he very ern. at the present moment to
give nay merit to the Nabs Cowell Bill.

through, and the commercial relations existing between
them and this country." They were also asked to write
SilOn life of the First Napoleon. (.t laugh.) Another
inquiry which might involve Homo political differences of
opinion was this : " Enumerate the struggles which have
taken place between Great Britain and the Chinese Empire
since PM' Then there was one which was oertainly of
some interest to the house at the present moment : "Give
the name of the essential characteristics which enter into
the composition of building stone usually employed."
(laughter.) Another question equally interesting to the
House of Commons was the following: From what
causes does the present. noxious effluvium of the Thames
arise?' (Laughter.)
Lord BTANLEY asked whether these were questions put
to the candidates for the civil service ?

Mr. LOCHRANE said the questions were set by Mr.
Dasent, but he believed those be was now citing were put
to the military students. (Hear, bear.) Still the principle
for which he was contending was the same, viz., that the
whole system of competitive examination, both for the
army nod the civil service. was equally objectionable.
(Hear, hear.) The Clan of questions in the two OMB was
the same. One of the things asked of the candidates was to
write a panegyric upon General Garibaldi, General Have-
lock, and Sir I. Newton. (Laughter.) They were asked also
to "write an essay on the Queen's visit to Germany," and
" if a holiday were given to a man employed in • public office,
bow it would be advisable to spend it'." (A laugh.) No leer
the Mx times students were asked to give mays on Gari-
baldi's expedition to Sicily, but perhaps, every other in-
stance of absurdity was exceeded by the following question:
" Give your views on the late fight for the championship
between Tom Sayers and Heenan." (Roars of laughter.)
He would cite only one more, as being, perhaps, the mast
extraordinary of all—much as they had heard of the views of
geological theorists. Thieves set to the students at Wool w ich :
" Give the evidence which exists for believing in former sub-
meraions of the British Islands beneath the MM. State when
the last of these submersions took place, and by what phe-
nomena it was accompanied." (Laughter.) The positions
on which he (Mr. Cochnioe) relied were, first, that the
report of the chairmau wee not borne out by the evidence ;
and secondly, that the civil service examination still em-
braced the same system of questions which had been con-
demned already. He wished to ask why the committee
did not examine his Royal Highness the Gonunsedsr-in-
Chief, Lord Stratford de Redcliffo, and others, who could
speak to the effect of these examinations upon the elms of
men who were entering the public menus T (Hear, hear.
There were certain qualifications for so office which eendil
not be tested by examination, sad the most ellicient public
servants and men of the greatest ability were
under the old system, and it had not been shown the
service had improved since the introduction of this qdem
of competitive examination. It was a dangerous siple
which had been introduced into the public swim and at
any late it was dangerous to tamper with meld established
system unless it was shown that the new would be pro-
ductive of greater benefit to the coentry. He freely ad-
mitted that they could not be too severe le the test exami-
nation to ascertain whether young men who entered the
public service were fit to occupy the offices to which they
aspired ; hut his opinion was that the public service was
deteriorating under the present sys cuss, and for this reason
us submitted the motion which stood on the paper is has
Dame.

Mr. HENNESSY said that, on • future occasion, he
should ask the house to affirm the principle that the civil
service should be filled by mesas of • system of competi-
tive examination, which he was now precluded by the forms
d the house from moving seen amendment to the present
motion. He defended the course taken and the report
made by the select committee on civil service examinations ;
and contended that the evidence showed that the system
now pursued kept inefficiency out of the public service, and
got the beet men into it.

Mr. M. MILNES did not think there wee sufficient ground
for the motion, which impeached the decides of a select
committee of the home ; but he still thought that, as undo*
prominence bad been given to the submit of tie civil ser-
vice examination, and that a great deal of individual trouble
dad suffering had been caused by the system, which was
sat campsomited by a proportionate benefit to the public
orrice.

Lord STANLEY said it was no part of his duty to
defend the wisdom or aptness of particular questions,
and he thought that some of those read by his
bon. (need bad better he omitted ; but even with regard to
these he did not think that justice bad been done to the
examiners by the manner in which his boo. hided reed
them, because, as he read them, it would be supposed that
every candidate would be expected to sasses. them (Hear,
bear.) It was not fair to pick oat five or six
subjects from • list of sixty-mina (gear, bow-)
His hon friend asked why the semmollikee bad not
waded diplomatists and commands la the army. Bet
be did not know what would be pined by their doing so, as
he was not aware that diplomatist' or plumb of the
army were better qualified to determine what were the pie
cater requirements of the civil service then the gentlemen
whom they bad examined. (Hear, hear.) As to whether
the system of limited or unlimited competition or dating*
I nomination was the best, that was • matter oe whisk every
hon. member could form his own opiates. Meowing the
feeling of the committee rurally, he was sure that so far
from having any bias is the metier they were more
sercipulous in bearing the case al Wee who formed the
minority than that of the majority. Bat he believed that
both parties were fairly represented, sad be bad heard no
complaint that any evidence had been shut out. His hon.
friend said that be did not object to a pass examination,
bat there was always a tendency se lower the test to favour
of the individual at the expense of the blie service till it
aided la being ao test at all. (Hear.) nier the nompeti-
Uwe =eottlit,rikii. &appeared altogether. His
bon. that* person's mous or failure in
life was Nude to depend en the accident of ea examination.
It was quite tree that no test was caneletive, but when the
objection was that a man's hare depended on an accident,
they must look, to the other alleviative, and consider
whether it was not better it should turn en
the accident of success or failure is an exami-
nation than that it should turn es the resi-
dent of a smell constituency being represeuted by •
minister having a good deal of patronage. (Chews.) It had
been said that the system of competition threw a vast
amount of patronage into the bands of impossible exa-
miners. But he could as little cumin bow it could be
mid that the system gave the civil service exercises a power
of irresponsible patronage than that the judos of the land
bad an wrespoosible power over property beauee they de.
tided the disputes of litigants. (Hear.) No complaint was
made that the magistrates and judges el the land had an
irrespoossible power, although the matters which they had
ti decide were far more important than the superior
fitness of a parson to enter the civil service.
Then it was mid that the system of competition led to
what was called "cram," that was to say, the learning by
rote the subje.cts on which the person was to be examined.
He believed that there was a great mistake on this
abject, It was nub more difficult for • person to learn
what he did not understand than what be did understand,
and to reprodue it after. But it was a valuable attain.
ment when one was able to reproduce quickly what he
learned effectually, and that was one of the effects of cam
petition. It was also said that though • compe-
titive examination might be • test of intellectual
attainment, it was so test of morel character.
But, under the present system, there was the
sum test of moral chareeter as under the system of pa-
tronage. (Hew, bear.) He did not support the system of
oompatition on the ground of its being en auxiliary to public
education, although that consideration ought not to be dis-
regarded, bat beauty of its own merits, and because, in •
parliamentary system like owe, if the system of patronage
was not exercised under some cheek or coated from public
opinion, it would prove the most effective means of public
demoralisation. (Hear, hear.) He trusted he had vindi-
cated the fairness of the 000clesion to which the committee
had come in their report, and had shown that the report was
founded on the evidence. And if the house would
only bear in mind the instances which his boo, friend bad
Detected from the evidence, and his (Lord Stanley's) com-
ments upon them, he thoubt they would come to the con-
clusion that the committee bad not abused the important
power which had been placed in their hauls—that of three-
tigatiog and reporting upon facts which could not be
gone into in all their multiplicity and detail by the house
itself. (Hear, bow.)

Mr. BENTINCIC said that nothing which had fallen from'
his noble friend was calculated to remove from his mind
the accusation which he had brought last your against the
civil service examiners—that they were perfectly irre.
sponsible. There was no analogy between their position
and that of the judges of the land, the latter I
having to decide on suite between individuals, the
former hiring to determine the merits of candidates. I
The commissioners of the t'ivil Service were totally iris.
sponnible even to public opinion, and they contended that
no one in that house or out of it had any right to inquire
into their conduct ; yet upon them rated the whole of the
civil patronage of the country.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped the
motion made by the bon. member fur Honiton (Mr.
Cochrane) would not be agreed to by the house. He
thought the hon. member wee not sufficiently miedful of
what we owed to the Civil Service Commissioners. They
ware gentlemen engaged in a very difficult duty, and in the
face of a great pressure of personal end selfish literate.
They were the champions and the friends of the public in-
terests, end he must say he thought gentlemen standing
in that position were entitled to be supported, and sot made
the objects of ridicule and sarcasm. His hon. friend led him
at finite suppose that he was only dealing with the civil
service, and he produced quite a number of.questione which
weresupposed to be addressed to clerks. tine waiters, sad
letter carriers, and persons of that class. The absurdity
those questions addressed to each a class of men the house
was called upon to admire ; but the fact was that the claw
tines selected were cot put to mac of that class, bat to pee.
sous who were intended to become enamors. (1,
hear.) He should therefore hope, when the hon. =ow
her returned to this subject, he would treat it
with greater accuracy, and abstain from indulging in re.
Sections upon gentlemen who had to perform an Important
public duty.

Lord H. CECIL was aware there was no prnspset of Ise
dome the house to set aids a system which might be said
to bars not yet had its trial ; but be did not think the
language of the right hoe. gentleman was justified in
this rasa

Sir 8. NORTHCO'rE said the Civil Berries Commis-
goners only wanted to consult the interest of the
departments, and to supply them with good mew.
There was one whams iftftgly against thank—Biz B. Beam.

ley. But what did Sir R. Bromley say? In mimes to
question 343 he said he was in favour certainly of amine-
tion, and he hoped the present system would never be ear-
ned to open competition, but be candidly added he hoped
never to see the cordial spirit between the House of Com-
mons and the public service broken down—(laughter)—and
in answer to question 347 he further said that moreover it
was the power of appointing the sons, ne-
phews, and friends of members of parliament to
public offices which created that strong interest which was
felt in the civil service. (Laughter.) Nothing in his (Sir
S. Northcote's) opinion could be more smashing than that.
He had not a word to add to Sir IL Bromley's evidence.
The hen. member for Hoodoo had amused the house by
reading some of the questions that had been set to candi-
date* ; he (Sir S. Northcote) might point to the following,
which he thought was a very good one :—" Write a
letter to a friend applying for a place or situation, sad
stating the grounds fur your application." The answers to
that inquiry would show the spirit of the late system. The
habits which it engendered of watching for the downfall of
• government, and wasting years of life in vain a:pm
were of the greatest injury to the community. He ho
that the system of open competition would soon be este
to all branches of the public service.

Mr. MAGUIRE had been asked over and over again for
nominations. But he was compelled to refuse' knowing that
in order to obtain them, a member must be a thick and thin
supporter of the government, and if he were to obtain a
place, the liecretary of the Treasury would look ex-
tremely black if he happened to see him in the
opposite lobby. This was not only degrading to a member
of the house but it impeded his free action. (Hear, bear.)
The noble lord (Lord R. Cecil) had said that the present
system made the members of the service dissatufed. But
lie (Mr. Maguire) had inquired into this, and he found that
in no case had this dissatisfaction led to insubordination ;
men gradually became satisfied with the position they
occupied.

Mr. COCHRANE said he should not ask the house to
divide ea the motion.

Leave to withdraw the motion was refused, and the
motion was put and negatived without a division.

THE LOSD•LIEUTENANT OF IRELAND.

Colonel DIMON wished to ask the Pint Lord of the
Treasury what he eonsidered the position of the Lord-Lien-
umlaut of Ireland to be with reference to the government of
that country ; end whether the Earl of Carlisle intends to
r►tain that office.

THE INDIAN ARMY.

Colonel SYKES wished to ark the Secretary of State for
ladle in what manner the provisions of clauses 36, 36 and
68 of the act 21 and 22 Vie., c. 166, and of the act 22 end
23 Vic., c. 27, which guarantees that "all advantages as to
pay, peoswse,allowances, privileges, promotion, and other-
wise shall be secured to the military forces of the Ent
India Cowpony in any plan for the reorganisation of the
Indian army," are to be earned out in respect to the 1,225
Akers (more or less) of the loud armies of India who will
be thrown out of employment by the reduction of the former
fixed establishment of twenty-six European regimental offi-
cers to six only to serve for the future with, a native regi-
ment, as directed by the amalgamation order published in
the Calcutta Government Gazette, dated April 10, 1861'
When irregular troops were first established in Indio the
complement of European officers was one ceptitio, one
lieutenant, sod one ensign ; but for the efficiency of th. re-
giments it was found necessary to mamma the number from
time to time, till they reached the number of twenty-six.
When the amalgamation of the services took place, the
government at one fell swoop reverted to the old
system, and reduced the rumber froadx to six.
He asked his right hon. friend how he into reconcile
the guarantee with the prospects of those officers I The
Indian army was now ilweded by being turned from regular
to Irregular troops ; but be hoped the resolution of that
home would show that justice would be insured to that
gallant body of men.
Sir C. WOOD said the question raised by his hon. sad
gal Ant friend had main in the world to do with the
guarantee, nor had it anything to do with the cm-
' version of the army from regular to irregular
troops. That had been Bested long before. Out
of 75 regiments sixty mutinied, sad whatever injury MI
bon. and gallant friend anticipated from the conversion of
regular into irregular troops, it bed taken place long before
the mutiny, so far at least se reprded the army of Bengal.
The Madras and Mombsy ermke were not yet converted,
when they would be it woad be dose quite gradually,
without displacing any officer from any fee or emolument
which he might now enjoy. (Hear.) Ilia hon, and gal-
lant friend dwelt upon the advantages of a vegan', above
an irregular army. Now the best envies had been per-
formed in the North of India by irregular regiments coin-
meoded by regular officers. His lama sad ipllent friend also
referred to the report of a commission which was appointed
in India to awry out the amalgamation of the armies, but
be (Sir C. Wood) could only my he was very sorry that
commidoa was ever appointed—lt bad done nothing but
mischief, the best proof of which was the report they bed
made, which contained an eseemption that had an founda-
tion. They seemed that the Madras and the Bombay army
were et mos to be reduced to the irregular system. There
was no foundation for that. That put an end to one-half the
ease of his boa. sad pliant friend. The Commander-is-
Chief bad undertaken to find employment for all the
officers, with the exception of some senior field officers, who
be believed were not competent to the discharge of active
duties. With regard to these he believed that a certain
number of officers would be superannuated. He thought it
was a most mischievous thing of the commissioners to
throw out of employment about 1,200 officers to be pen-
sioned on the Indian revenues. His hon. sad gallant friend
argued that the whole of the of should retain all their
emoluments and allowances, but thei was tantamount to
saying that the army in India should be kept up to its for-
mer strength for the sake of the officers and without re-
ference to the public movie,. (Hear, bear.)

FORTIFICATIONS AT SPITHEAD.
Sir R. PETO called the attention of the bones to the
nature of the fortifications about to he emoted at Spithead
with reference to the very grad, &anise now nada' pleas la
naval armament' ; and inquired if the governmeet intended
to reoooaider the question whether Seating batteries would
not prove more effective for the defines of the emend than
the forts proposed to be constructed on the sheik The ra
port of the commiseioners admitted that vessels might take
up a position out of range of the forte and shell the
lie would ask the house to consider how, after • round of
firing, the persons at the forks could see the objects to be
fired at. Then again all those that knew anything of
Portsmouth Dockyard knew that it had • large area, sad
all naval officers would admit that firing at objects from •
distance would be futile. lie would ask the house whether
they were spending the money at the right place in defend-
ing the right place? But these forts at Spithead would cod
much more than the estimate, and he would press upon the
government not to act too precipitately in this matter.
The house ought to act with extreme audios upon this
subject, for be never found • man either in the army or the
navy who spoke with favour of these forts. The govern-
ment would, he hoped, adopt the recommendation which he
had placed on the raper.

Sir F. SMITH urged that It was not possible to leave the
defence of Portsmouth to ships slows, but that it must in
a greet assmure be entrusted to forts..
Admiral DUMMER wee for ships ; Captain Jaya for
forts.

Lord Pl

- The boa baronet who made this

motion hoe adopted the views of a very intelligent ofbeer,
Captain Cole, and no doubt there is a great deal in Captain
Cole's view ; but 1 confess that, after hearing the argu-
ments, I cannot come to the conclusion to which my ham
friend and Captain Cole have arrived. It is somewhat r•-
markable that in this very short discussion we have ems
military men for forts and naval men for floating batteries.
So it moat always be, and that is one of the difficulties
which government experiences In coming to • satisfactory
oonclusice in • matter of this kind. But I think the argu-
ment is entirely in favour of forte as against ships. Now,
let us just see what my hon. friend proposes as a security
for Portsmouth. What ia it that Portsmouth has to fear?
Why, a fleet. Now, that fleet we must imagine to be the
strongest fleet that the enemy, whoever that enemy may
be, can concentrate upon that plat. It would consist of
ship of the hugest description, of the most formidable arm.
Meet, and to meet them ships we should have a fleet of •
corresponding aim. Doss my hon. friend propose that
we should have permanently stationed at Spithead ten
iron-cased Mips el the largest dimendoes, equal to any
fleet that might be brought into Spitbead. Union your
fleet was equal to any fleet that could be brought against it
3 ou might bring upon yourselves defeat and diasster. You
are to look upon the fleet to protect the arsenal, which
would be valuable over and above the fleet which it has for
its defence. Then again you never could reckon on having
your floating defences on the spot where they are wanted.
If there was alarm in another part of the asst
do you imagine that the government would allow these
two formidable ships to remain at anchor at Spithead
when there was an attack on Plymouth, and a demonstra-
tion on other parts of the coast? Public opinion, and the
exigencies of the service, would infallibly produce the result
that these ships would be elsewhere, and when the enemy
came to Portsmouth it would be deprived of its defences.
Theo, again, take the expense. What we propose to seta.
bliah would not coat more, nay, not so much, as the armed
fleet which, according to Captain Coles theory, would be
permanently stationed at Blithest]. But the ship
would decay and require repair, and require a
large number of sailors to man and work them.
A much larger number of men would In required
for the ships' than for the forts. Therefore in point of
economy either in first constructioo, or in maintenance or in
permanence, the balance of opinion is entirely in favour of
forts as against ships. They would require lees money to
make them, to keep them in repair, and to man them. They
would be always there, whereas ships you could not rely
upon. My hon. frieod says that ships can be kept on the
points where these forte are to be planed. I question that.
There seems to be scarcely • limit to the power of artil-
lery, but there is a limit to the resisting power of ships,
because there is • limit in the capacity of • ship to boat
with a certain weight upon her, and 1 defy you to construct
• ship with an iron coating of sufficient thickness
to repel the heavy shots which are now fired
from cannon, and yet be buoyant enough to float
on the water. That is not the one io a fort. Yon may
make • wall of your fort as thick as experience may shoir
to you is nee ay to rake the et ark of heavy ordaseee.
Then. agile, moon of a certain weight is uernenegedde ea
• floating ship. You may have this ea deoh.
but on deck they are exposed to the Ors of
en adversary. and are woe diabled. In fora
you nay have any amount of weight of ordnance

which experience has shown you are capable of constructing,
and I venture to say if an enemy's fleet were to as-
sen,ble at Spithead, and these forte were constructed and
armed, and the guns of Sir Wiiliam Armstrong and others
put into them, these ships would very soon be sent to keep
company with the Royal George. It is quite possible that
in a matter of this sort repeated experiments are necessary
to enable you to be sure that what you are doing will be
effectual. On the other hand I entirely concur with the
hon. and gallant officer opposite, that no time should be lost
beyond what is necessary for the purpose of seeing your way
clearly, sad I am quite sure that the course which her
Majesty's government have determined to adopt
io the construction of these forts is the fittest.
I admit the defects of Portsmouth from insufficient depth
of water, and that is one reason why government propose'
to erect a basin at Chatham, where sufficient depth of
water is available ; and I trust we shall have the
support of my honourable friend when we come to discuss
that question. My opinion, notwithstanding all that Cap-
tain Cole has said is favour of floating defences, that per-
manent ones are indispensable. I do not say that we
should not have a certain number of ships to assist
the forts, but the latter will also be neeesaary. It
has been said that the forte would serve as so many
buoys to guide an enemy's fleet into harbour. Why, does
any hon. member imagine that any naval power stands in
need of such aid? We have charts engraved to the greatest
nicety, we know very well that all foreign governments
have obtained those °harts, that foreign ships frequently
visit our porta, and that foreign officers are as well ac-
quainted with all entrances to harbours as those of our own
service. Under these circumstances the government feel
justified in proposing permanent defence. Now in answer
to the question of the hen. and gallant member with respect
to the relations which the Lord•Lientenent of Ireland bolds
towards her Majesty's government, I would say that those
relations are such as have been fixed by law and usage,
and with respect to the intentions of the Lord lieutenant
of Ireland, 1 have no Men to suppose that he will not
continue his services. The best possible relations exist be-
tween her Majesty's government and Lord Carlisle.

Mr. BENTINCK regretted the decision to which the go-
vernment had corns with respect to the forts, ea be believed
that their erection would be a complete waste of money.
(Hear, hear.) He wondered that government should have
incurred such an expense on a report which completely con-
tradicted a previous one issued by the mine oommission,
and also when they mast know that the whole weight of pro-
fessional opinion was against such a mums.
Sir H. VERNEY bad heard from competent naval men
that no fleet could get into Spithead if the buoys were
taken away. Why, be would ask, build forts on sandbanks
when it was known they were every day increasing the
range of the artillery ? Why not build them inshore at
Portsmouth or in the Isle of Wight?
The house went into committee of supply.
174,4071., repairs of buildings at home and abroad.
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to proceeding with the commit-
tee at that late hour.

iir: iFAßitio—lriiita coy 00. ,Me.
Mr. F. SMITH objected to the rote of 3,1671. for aboll
stores at Woolwich, and other item.

After some conversation,
Mr. BARING ex hied the necessity of the estimates.
Lord PAL N said he begged hoc. member to
recollect that there were 203 votes in supply, end he really
hoped that when supply was on the paper that order ci the
day would be proceeded with.
Mr. HENLEY said that supply had not been down any
day this week. Early in the session a great point had been
made about Tuesdays being given up to the government, but
he must say he did not see there had been any great effort
to bring on supply.
The vote was agreed to and the Chairman reported pro-
gress.
DURHAM UNIVERSITY BILL.
On the motion for the second reading of this bill,
An Roe. Berea moved the adjournment of the debate.
The motion was negatived, and the bill wu read a second
time.