The Express.
London, England, 1850-04-17 00:00:00

THE EDUCATIONAL CO:
LEEDS.

;Y AT

The second public meeting on the subject of
education was held at Lead, on Monday. It was intended
to held this meeting in the vicious yard of the White Cloth
Hell, bat the weather being so unfavourable, an outdoor
meeting became impossible. In fact, during the whole
morning, and until alter 2 o'clock, the rain continued to
descend very heavily.
According to the formal announcement the mayor took
the chair at the Court-house at 12 o'clock, and, having
stated that he should, in order to act impartially to all par-
ties only preside until the meeting had appointed another'
chairman, he called upon the promoters of the meeting to
commence the beelines.
H. STANSPELD, moved, and D. LUPTON, Beg.,
seconded, the appointment of Mr. Alderman Shaw,
mayor of the borough, as chairman, which motion was una.
nimously agreed to.
Mr STANSMILD then proposed an adjournment to the
White Cloth hall-yard, but this was strongly objected to by
the meeting, and
Mr. ANDIIII W GARDENER, a chartist, proposed that
the meeting should adjourn to the following day to the
Coloured Cloth-hall yard, and there meet the volunteers face
to face. _

A long discussion ensued between Mr. STA/MELD, Mr.
Baum, and others as to the order of proceeding on Tuesday,
providing the two meetings were amalgamated, but SO no
agreement could be tome to an adjournment was moved and
seconded to the Music Hall at seven o'clo k in the evening.
The Music Hall holds upwards of 1,500 people, and soon
after seven o'clock it was well filled by an audience,
composed principally of the working claws, the orchestra
being occupied with the requisitionists, their friends, and •
few voluntaries. The leaders of the latter had previously
announced that they should not attend, on the ground that •
borough meeting could not be held in any room in the town,
as it might be attended, as Ca the last occasion, by 15,000
people, who, of course, could not get into • room holding
only:1,500.
Mr. Alderman SHAW, having taken the chair, entered
at great length into the circumstances in which the present
meeting had originated, and, as • requisitionist, he delended
the promoters of the meeting against the insinuation that
the feet of their consisting of men of all parties in religion
and plisice wee to be taken as an argument against their

The Rev. WM. SINCLAIR then proposed the following
resolution " That this meeting, while it acknowledges with
pleasure the vast efforts voluntarily made in the cause
of education, and aka the benifiaial effects et the
measures adopted by the edueati mal committee of t..e
Privy Council, is yet of opinion that there is such
• deficiency, both in the quantity and quality of mere of
instruction, as to demand more general rod comprehe naive
arrangements, and would, therefore, urge upon parliament
the importance of meeting the wants of national education,
by devising such =assures r are necessary for its exteosion
and improvement, oa the principle of strict impartiality to
all Tensions communions, and as far as possible on the bui.
of local management." The rev. gentleman eapreased bi.
opinion that greater educational if arts were necessary in
et ler to educate the great mein of the people.
Mr. li. RIL11•11.11101:4 wooded, and the Rte. C. Wicc•
IiTEAD aid Mr. C. .1112C111 11 , supp toed tie motion
Mr. W. BROOK, a chartist, c.me t.ser. rd a.) move an
am, ndinent in favour of s cular oduct.i.m, sod based alto.
gather upm local management. Ile ilia he wai in favour
of national education to be conductel by ..he rate payers in
their respective localities, but free of all goleraineot con.
trol, Lasing of o,ini an that so long as the securest union of
church ..nd state continued, the establishment would always
be I kvoured by government.
Ter CHAIRMAN said he could not receive this putpoti
time as an amendment, but Mr. Brook might, if he eager,
&forwards move it as &substantive resolution.

Mr. BROOK replied that he would take that course.
Mr. FIRTH, a chartist, spoke at great length in opposi.
tion to he views of the Rev. William Sinclair. He said
the church would always get the lion's share of any go-
vernment grants, for as they had nine millions of money
they had taken from the Roman catholic', they were in
a betty condition for raising the money necesury to
obtain government grants. He (Mr. Firth) was in
favour of • system of national secular education ;
and he should move as an amendment " that the re-
solution proposed by Mr. Sinclair should not be put to
the vote till the following day," whoa they would meetagain
in the Cloth Hell Yard. He did not like the resolution, as
it pointed to .religions education, and el thou who had
spoken upon it had so expressed themselves in favour of that
kind of education, and against secular education.
Mr. T. CHAPMAN seconded the amendment.
The CHAIRMAN then took a vote on the amendment ;
which he declared lost, though several parties expressed •
different opinion.
The CHAIRMAN next put the original resolution, which
he declared carried, though the majority wu again very
doubtful.

Mr. WM. BROOK Row moved his nsolution in favour of
a sstein of secular education, which was seconded by Mr.
hunt Bor.!, and curled by an overwhelming m ,jority,
the chairman declaring. " That is carried, at all events."
The Rev. Mr. BROWN nest moved the adoption of a
petition founded on the first resolutios.
Mr. BROOK objected to this, and said the petition should
be founded on both resolutions.

The CHAIRMAN said r7i; would be absurd; and
Mr. CHURCH, addressing Mr. Brook, a. id, you carried
a petition for secular education on Thursday night.
Mr. BROOK replied that did not signify, that was a dis-
tinct and wins ate meeting.
The CHAIRMAN eau Mr. Brook could propose a sepa-
rate petition founded on the second resolution.

Mr. BROOK consented to this; and both petitions were
eventually adopted, that founded on the first retolution b
a small majority, and that founded on the second by a much
larger one.
It war then agreed that Mr. Marshall, M.P. for the
Borough, should present both petitions, and that William
Beckett, Eiej., the other member, should be requested to
support both.
The Eluting did not break up till alter 11 o'clock.

Yesterday, at noon, a meeting (the third held in this
town within a few days), took place in the yard of the
Coloured Cloth Hall, for the purrs* of considering the
question of national education. This meeting was also con-
vened by the Mayor, in compliance with a requisition con-
taining the names of about 700 parsons, many of high re-
spectability and of different views on the subject the meeting
was convened to consider. Considering the nacres-
pitimui state of the weather for as out-door meeting,
there w.ll a numerous attendance. The Rev. Dr.
Holmes, head master of the Grammar School, presided.
After some preliminary squabbling, fur which Leeds educe
Waal meetings item to be distinguished, and in which it
was pretty clear the requisite's had in convening the meet
big but one object, namely, that of opposition to Mr. Fox's
Bill.
Mr. Alderman CARBUTT, ea an uncompromising volun-
tary, opposed the measure,. chiefly on the ground of the
Slcialist and Communist prusciplee to which he conceived the
ill tended. In conclusion, he moved a petition to the
House of Commons declaring the provisions of the bill
objectionable, both in principle and detail, and calling up.in
the house nit to pas the bill into law.
Mr. WILLIAMS (Wesleyan Minister) seconded the
adoption of the petition, in a very energetic
speech, contending that no scheme of educes
thin ought to have the sanction of this country
without the religious element, and that wi•hout moral means
moral results could not ensue.

Mr. Alderman BTANSEIELD (amidst much interrup-
tion) moved an amendment in approval of Mr. Fox's bill,
and in the course orhis remarks mad* a very piloted attack
to Mr. Bider@ fur his former advocacy of government educe.
lion and pie press. t obetinateoppositien to such a measure.
Dr. 8. SMILES seconded the amendment, and pointed out
the inconsistency of opposing the interference of government
in the education of the people, while at the same time they
sanctioned government interference in the case cf the pour
law, the highway., alto.
Mr E. BAINES next addressed the meeting. He at first
defended himself from the charge of inconsist.ney
in having, within the hat twelie years, charged
his views on the subject of national education.
The meeting was still pretending when our parcel was
dispatched.

The c °mutation for 'wiring into Smithfield-mar
kilt and mai hots to the City of Lon•on for the sale of meat
wart yesterdav at the Home•offes. Amenithe comatiosii.n.r.
were Mr. O. Cornwall Lewis, Sir Jamie Duke, Sir Hairy
V.rn«y, Prutewor Itichard Owen, Hon. Frederick Ding,
and Mr. John Wood.
The chairman of the East India Company and the
depu.y.ohsirman had an interview with the Chancellor of
the Eachtquer yesterday. Mr. Joins Wood, ehairman o! the
'hard of InMad Revenue, had also an intr.riew with the
right hon. baronet yesterday at ►is official residence la
Downiai•eireet.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS—TUESDAY, APRIL 16.
The bowie met at Are O'CIOCk. L/I'd LANODALZ Nt
Braker.
The hoses eat for A few minutes rely, daring which the
Racheqser-bille Bal sad the Brick Duties Repeal Bill were
reepeetively read a third Wale, sad permed.

ROUSE OF COMMONS.—TuesDAT, APED. 16.
The BPILKIII took the chair at four o'clock.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
KIDDERMINSTER ELECTION.
Mr. W. PATTEN. as the chairmen of the eontsaittoe on
deafens, announced that the following memben had been
@sleeted to try the merits of the petition against the return
of Mr. Beet for the borough of Kidderminster;—Viscount
Enfield, Mr. A. Stafford, Kr. D. Morris, Bic W. bollite,
Bart.; chairman Mr. B. P. Bouvorio.

PETITIONS PRESENTED.
WINDOW Tax.—By Mr. C. LUSHINOTON, from the
parish of St. Margaret's, Westminster, tar the abolition of
this tam.

Brame Orrin BILL —By Mr. LOCKE, from the Lon-
don and South Coast Railway Company, against this bill.
NATAL ASSISTANT 813110ZONS —By Mr. BROTHER-
TON, from Salford; Mr. DI VETT, from Exeter, la favour
of the claims of them officers to be placed in a higher
grads as regards accommodation on board her Majesty's
vessels.

CASS OP SIR THOMAS TORTON.—By Mr. ROEBUCK,
from Beogal, complaining of the public defalcations of this
individual, and for redress. _

7.Ai1i1113/711;;WL111110.....11 —PAPER DM= AND ADYI6I-
- DUTY. —BT Mr. W. J. FOX (vernal), from
various places; Mr. W. PATTEN, from the household in-
habitants of Manchester; Mr. ROEBUCK, from Sheffield;
Mr. COBDEN, from clergy, merchants, manufacturers, and
traders of Haddonfield, and from Keiohley, Yorkshire;
Mr. ELLIS, from Leicester; Mr. W. EVANS, from Me-
chanics' Institute of Sur &timid, %dilemmas", places in
Derbyshire; Mr. BRIGHT. from Mechanics' Institute of
Bromley (Yorkshire), and Sunderland, also from Mr. Jas.
Williams, for the abolition of these duties and taxes.

NOTICES OF MOTION.
Imam Poor" LAW.—Lord I,4AAS gave notice that on
that day month he would call the attention of the house to
the present working of the Irish poor lew.
Mr. IL HERBERT gate notice that on the same dry he
would call tr.e attention of the house to the propriety of
establishing a mail packet station on the west coast of
Ireland.

Coast Dom—Mr. H. BERKELEY, on behalf of Mr.
0 BERKELEY, postponed the latter hos. member's
motion for the imposition of an Bs. duty on foreign corn
until the 14th of May.
Toitacco.—Col. DUNNE:gave notice that, on that day
tonnight, he would move for a committee of the whole house
to inquire into the op/refills of the law prohibiting the
cultivation of tobacco in this counivy.
CHURCH RATES. Mr. TREL &WET postponed hie
motion on this subject until the 14th of May.
Tug lame CHURCH.—Mr. ROEBUCK gave notice
that, on that day three weeks, he would move that the house
should resolve itself into a committee of the whole house, on
the state of the church of Inland, and on the best application
of its nes, with a view to the benefit of the people of
that country. (Cheers.)
Rausoarn Ilantioun.—Mr. MACKINNON gave notice
of his intention to move for a select committee to investigate
the revenue and expenditure of the harbour of Ramsgate.
IRISH BAR.—Mr. SADLEIR gave notice that on that day
fortnight he should bring under the notice of the house
the systematic exclusion of members of the Irish bar for the
last 25 years from the Indian bench.
Krtonre or WINDSOR.—CoIoneI SALWLY gave notice
that on that day fortnight he would move for a select com-
mittee to inquire into the case and claims of the military
knights of Windsor.

INCOME TAX (IRELAND).
On the motion of Col. DU NE, the following returns were
ordered :—Returns of the amoant of property assumed to the
income tsar in the year ended the 4th April, 1849, under
schedule D, arising from securities and possessions in Ireland;
and of the amount assessed under schedule C in the public
funds in Ireland for the same period, and under schedule E
on salaries in public offices and pensions in Ireland for the
same yeas.
--_

IRISH POOR LAW.
Major BLACK ALL, in pursuance of notice, atked the
Solicitor General for Ireland, whether the power. of ho:rds
of guardians, with the sanction of the I'oor Law COMMlS-
sitmen, extended to the providing for the p4akest of as.
sistant-guardians out of the poor.' rates.
Mr. HATCH ELL sail, that having examined the statute
since the hon. member gave him notice of his ntieetion, he
was of opinion that no such power was vented either in the
commistioners or in the guardians. Assistant guardians
haling a representative character, were not, he believed,
entitled to any remuneration under the act.

TAXES ON KNOWLEDGE.
Mr. H. GIBSON, after presenting petitions in favour
of this vbj,,ct from the printers of the Lair Times, from
Manchester, from Sligo, from Wells, from Lilitgton, from
Staleybrblge from Conabteand, from Ilalesworh nest
blanches4e:from M.rylebone, and from the members and
friends of the Literary Institution, John-street, Tottenham.
court.road, rose to more the following resolutians
Whereas all taxes whi h direct!y impede the diffuolon of knowledge
are highly Injurious to the pub:ic intereoto, and are 13109 t inap,,Ltic
mum of revenue, this how,e i. of opinion—
lot. That such financial arrangements ought to be made as will en.
able parliament to repeal the early* duty on psis r.
Mid. That it is expedient to abolish the otamp duties now payable
on IKw.pip. ro in Great Britain and Ireland.
3rd. Th it it is expedient to abolioh the duties now pa, obie oa ad.
eertieementoi n Great Britain and Ireland.
Stn. And that the customs du yon foreign hooks ougbt to be re-
pealed.

The hon. member said—lf members of parliament are to
wait previous to asking the house to express an opinion upon
the polic of a tax until there is a clear surplus, and no way
is pointed out of employing that surplus, I very much ques-
tion whether there will ever be an opportunity for an
iudependent member to submit the policy of any taxation
to the house. At all .in.es government spend as much as they
can get. Therelore, without reference to the question whether
money lie lying idle in the coffers of the state, we are
justified in bringing forward these matters as matters of
policy, with a view to ask the house whether any particular
tax is contemplated as • permanent part of taxi.
tion. I do not ark any gentleman to do anything rash,
nor do I myself wish to do anything rash connected with
finance It has been contended that • school of repudia-
tion is ruing up amongst us—l am not of that school—but
Ido not feel myself precluded from examining the conse-
quences of particular modes in which taxation may press
on industry to see whether we can make arrangements
in such a manner as will keep up the public revenue
without checking the diffusion of knowledge or press-
inn on the important branch of trade and manufac-
tures. The mode in which I ask the house is simply this.
I ask them to declare at this moment that the paper
duty is to cease. I ask them to declare that such financial ar-
rangemects ought to be made as will enable parliament to re-
peal the excise duty on paper. I ask them whether they
I think it fitting that such a tax as this should remain
a permanent source of ue. I apprehend I am not de-
parting from the legitimate functions of a member of the
House if Commons in asking the opinion of the house on so
important a question of Foley/ as to any pint of taxation.
Although it is true that these resolutions are headed by •
preamble, yet they will be put to the house separately, and
I do not presume to ask any member of this house to vote
for all these resolutions on one motion of my own, submit-
ted in a form that should embrace every one. All that I do
is to declare my own opinion, that all of these taxes
ought to be repeal, d, but I only ask the house to
vote for each separate resolution as it stands; and if
any gentleman may have difficulties as to the re-
moval of the stamps on newspapers, he is not to be ores
eluded from voting for the excise on paper; or if
any other gentleman may not vote for the repeal of the duty
n paper of 800,0001. per annum, he isnot to be deterred from
voting for the repeal of the stamp on newspapers. I wish to
explain this muter to the house before my motion is
placed in the hands of the Speaker, that hon. members may
know to what extent they may give their vote. The resolu•
tine that stand. first, is the excise duty upon paper. This
duty upon paper yields• revenue of something like 000.0001 ;
but if we were to deduct from that 800.00td. the amount
which is supposed to be paid by the state itself in
duty upon the paper that the state consumes in
all public departments, perhaps we might lower
the amount. It cannot be much less than some-
thing like between 20,0001. and 30,0001. ; and 1
do not think I should be far from the mark, if I put the
paper duty on the whole at 730,000/. Now, if we consider
the duty on paper simply in reference to its effect on an im-
portant manufacture, I think we should find in it • con-
vincing ease for taking into our early consideration its repeal.
Without going into the more immediate object of my mo-
tion, via., the effect of this duty in impeding the diffusion of
knowledge, I will call the attention of the house to its effect
upon the paper manufacture itself, upon the employment of
labour, and upon some other considerations of • come
menial character, that, perhaps, are net immediately con-
nected with the diffusion of knowledge. 1 hold it to be
fetal to • tax, if you cannot protect, by any device
you can adopt, the honest trader from the fraudulent trader.
• I would ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; I would ask
any experienced member on either side of the house, whether
he would undertake to ay it was in the power of govern-
ment, by any device they may adopt, to protect the honest
pet rat
competition
I einnt
supplying
goods What a monstrous thing it is, it it be
true that the Excise have always failed to protect the honest
e
manufacturer, that you should continue a tax of this descrip-
tion.curer,andmarket
give him(airhands
chanceinthe
It was an argument itself fatal to the tax. I
will ittrwe
rhsi which
paper.itis
Baldwin says :
neees
ry
It eons me is labour alone to help to charge myself with the
gsai atn. tanstetanrfecree ofw the
the manufacturers
71
duty on paper, 51500 WO/. a year. I make about twelve tone tar
wank ; m In consequenee tif thee. exch.s laws have to weigh every
noel tour time. over, besides taking the number of every nwnk aunt
witting the weight on each. 'Then, aro wren or eight patitebtrard
maker,. In Birmingham all of whom, I believe, do not par Ad. a year
du r, while the time moulded by the czeisetnm and supervisor in
eh acing theta with skis amount costs the country tire times that
amount.

It is said that thee* is its interference with the process of
manufacture, but you do interfere with the process of ma-
nufacture if you frame an act in which it is laid down that
paper should be manufactured of certain materials in a wet
crate; and then it was found out that paper could lie made
of those materials in a dry mate, and the manufacturer
producing articles from the dry state without duty was
competing with a man paying duty levied on paper made in
a wit state. It was necessary to take some steps to make
regalatiuna, to obviate this anomaly. A compromise was en-