The Express.
London, England, 1850-01-02 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JANUARY 2, MO.

FRANCE.

PARIS, Tempe:, 6 30 rte.
The following is the continuation of yesterday's
debate in the Assembly on the La Plata question :
The Minister of Justice wished to comprehend the
constitutions! part of the question, and the duty
desired to be imposed upon the government. Ac-
cording to the constitution it lay with the executive
power to negotiate and ratify treaties. the Assem-
bly sanctioned or rejected them. The executive
power watched over the safety of the state, and under-
took war with tie consent of the Assembly, which
could oppose the idea of war, either by an absolute
resistance or an adjournment of the question. When
the war was resolved upon, the executive carried it
on. Tke committee should prepare the deliberations
of the Assembly. In the present instance the com-
mittee declared the ratification of the Le Predour treaty
impossible ; and fresh negotiations as impossible. For
us nothing seems possible but abandonment or war.
The Reporter, then, said to the ministry "choose!"
M. Dare did not say " make war ;" he saw obstacles
on the part of England and on that of the United States.
If the sommittee stl.l held the same language, lilt per-
sisted in telling them to choose, at the same time leaving
them but one course to pursue; we will require of it
to propose a special vote, a more explicit vote, in a
word, a vote of war. The government will require it
in order to cover its own responsibility, and it will no
less reqn:re it of the Assembly. In fact, neither
our national interests, nor our national honour
properly understood, dema-el this resolution of imme
diate war. In 1844 our national interests were at
Monte Video, in 1849 they are at Buenos Ayres. Our
countrymen have for the meet part transferred their
commercial interest from Monte Video to Buenos
Ayers. We hope, therefore, that the Assembly before
taking so serious a resolution, will weigh all these
confederations. It will judge whether, without actual
pressing necessity, it ought to transport to a distance
of 3,000 leagues from France the sanguinary efforts
Algeria cost ber—Algeris, which is at her very door.
(Approbation.) The minister concluded by saying
that the government regarded the continuation of
negotiations as possible.
Id. Darn (reporter) said that the minister's speech
was no answer to his (M. Daru'e) ; and further, that
the language of the mi' ister way different at the
tribune to what it had been in the committee, where
he had maintained that action was indispensable. He
conceived that there were verious modes of action
without going to war. What did they say in the
report? 'Thst negotiations seemed henceforward im-
possible. We have said that action is at lest
etc -nary. [A voice on the right:—" Then we
may understand one another']. (Laughter.) The
committee had not ed a military expe-
dition. hey demander :P.01:"/ line of conduct. In
this respect they agreed with the minister buiself.
Then tne minister demande'l a c wee of conduct
other than that proposed by the c ,mmittee, who
merely asked that the question should be referred
back (agitation).
M. de Larochejaqutlin wished to say that, from
the agitation which prevailed, it appeared impossible
to arrive at any result without the question bring
clearly explained. They all had heard the speech of
the minister of justice, which, in fact, only amounted
to this, that the diplomatic negotiations were to be
continued. Thereupon the reporter ascended the tri-
bune, and attributing to the minister a desire to
negotiate, supported by suffic'ent means to render
the negociation of weight, proposed to have the
matter sent back to the committee. But the hon.
minis ter had made a negative sign when M. Darn had
proposed so referring the matter to the committee.
He could comprehend the seadieg the matter to the
committee, if what the hon. minister said was in any
way new ; but, if not so, such reference would be
useless. In fine, the yardarms of the Le Predour
treaty wanted peace, from • horror of war ; whilst
the adversaries of the treaty desired war because
they judged it necessary. The whole question, there-
fore, lay between peace and war : let the Assembly
decide.

11. Darn said that the reason why he asked to have
the matter refined to the committee war, decid• dlv,
became the language of the hon. minister cprned a
new view of the mode of acting.
The Minister of Justice thought that what he had
said was so clear as to allow of no misconception. He
had ment,oned these matte,. as desired by the g6vent-
mint ; no immediate war; diplomatic wgotiations
continued; full defence of the French subjects at Ls
Plata and of their interests.

M. E. Arago declar.d that the position was now
pte.isely what it had been on Saturday ; the minister
o' justice had not said anything more than the minis-
tcr of foreign affairs had spoken on that cccasior.
What was required was to have some clear and ex-
plicit decision come to —to have nothing ambiguous or
capable of misapprehension. Fur his part, he could
not tee that further negotiation was possible. Let the
Assembly vote something, whatever it tifght be—let
there be nothing doubtful !
M. de Mornay said that the opinion of the minister
was clear enough ; what was necessary at present was
to ascertain that of the committee.

M. Darn said that the committee bad been called
on only to examine the bill to grant a certain sum as
• subsidy to the Oriental government. Now, it was
proposed to negotiate, with a sufficient force to sup-
port the negotiations—to have, in fait, an armed ne-
gotiation. It would seem, to hear hon. gentlemen,
twit there was no intermediate course between war
and peace. When Admiral de Maclean was
sent to La Plata wila sufficient force to support
the diplomatic action, was not that an armed nego-
tiation? The rime case had occurred with respect to
Mogedor. (" No, no—that was war.") There also
vessels had been sent out to support negotiations.
The he gotiations had not succeeded,and war" bllowed.
Why had not the committee come to a positive con-
clusion ? Because it would in that cue encroach on
the attributes of the government, for it was the
government which had to resolve such a point.
After moms interruption,
M. Darn said he was now authorised by the col.-
mines to say that it concluded on sending to La Plata
a negotiator armed with sufficient means to energeti-
cally support his declarations. (Prolonged agitation.)
M. Hubert Belisle said that the committee had
manifested its opinion in a clear and positive manner.
After the diecussion of Saturday, he thought the only
thing that remained to be done was to demand a credit
for the expedition. It had been said that the negotia-
tion with Morocco was an armed one, and that 3et it
had led to war ; but the case, he contended, was not
analogous. At Morocco there had been no treaty,
whilst at La Plata the cue was different. It was
necessary that the Chamber sh.tuld leave the doubtful
position in which it was now placed, for one more
worthy of a deliberative Assembly. He should, there-
fore, demand whether the ministry was disposed to
accept the proposition made by the committee, and
which was an armed negotiation, and afterwards war.
If the government accepted that position he did not
see why the matter should be referred back to the
committee, nor even if it declared that it would not
go beyond an armed negotiation.
The President.—The Assembly must come to some
decision. An amendment has been proposed to vote
the funds necessary for war. This amendment, ac-
cording to the regulations, must be sent to the com-
mittee. Consequently the Assembly has to decide
whether it will vote the credit in reserving the gene-
ral question—(cries of "No! no !")—ar whether it will
immediately vote en the amendment. Tee following
is the amendment of M. de Ranee :—" There is
opened to the ministers of marine and war • credit of
10 millions, in order to support by arms, in case of
reed, the negotiations between the French and the
Argentine republics." The Assembly cannot vote
immediately on the above amendment, as it is called
on to deliberate on a bill for which urgency is de-
clared. The proposition of M. de Rance can there-
fore, according to the regulations, be only taken into
consideration, and referred back to the committee.
M. Jules Fevre said that the question to be con-
sidered wee, whether the Assembly was to continue
the Policy of the pest,or depart from the convention
of 1848. It was eeceseary to decide whether French
interests should be left in a suffering state, or whe-
ther the word peace or war should be pronounced.
The committee bad said that there should be no ne-
gotiations.

M. Daru—Not on the conditions of the past.
M. J. Fevre.— In that ease the opinion of the com-
mittee was nothing, for it brought back the old pro-
visional state of things which was so fatal to the inter-
est of France. It was evident that all neffotiations
would end in the Le Predour treaty, since Rosa. had
declared that he would listen to nothing. The com-
lmittee had said that negotiations should be abandoned,
and that the only choice was between that course

and action. The committee had given it
to be understood that it was in favour of
action, but, not wishing to infringe on the
initiative of the government, it left to it to explain how
it understood the means of action. It was, therefore,
clear that the committee demanded the substitution
of setian fur negotiations, whilst the government was
in favour of an opposite course, and the two were
therefore widely separated in their opinions. It erss
not for the Assembly to trace out a complete pro-
geamme to the cabinet. It did not follow that a
policy of action should lead to war with Roes' ; the
city of Monte Video might be released, and the
troops of Oribe sent out of Uruguay.
Several Voices—But that is war.
M. J. Fevre—lt was possible that a simple naval
demonstration would have the result of making the
forces of Oribe disappear like smoke. France might.
therefore, without a declaration of war—(laughter)--
accomplish its object. War might result from it, but
that course of action would not be war. Let then
the Assembly make known its ideas to the govern-
meat, and the latter would furnish the means of exe-
cution. lie should propose the following as an addi-
tional article :—" The government, renouncing nego-
dation., wi ich it bad found to be useless, will put
itself in a position to protect the lives and interests
of French subjects by releasing the city of Motet.
Video, and causing the territory of the republic of
Monte Video to be r.spected." (Murmurs.)
On the Right.—But that is war.
The President.- -That makes already five amend-
ments. (Renewed laughter.) Just now I bad but
two amendments, and now I have six—(laughter)—
and in a little time I shall donleless have more. (Re-
newed laughter.) I shall read them to the Assembly,
but for the prevent the question is to know whether
the Assembly will take them into consideration, in
which case they will be referred to the committee.
The president then again read the amendments of M.
Rance and M. Jules Fevre, as well as one by M.
Savoye, this latter having for object to send an ulti
matum to Rises, supported by a toice sufficient to re-
tect Monte Video from any surprise ; a fourth, de-
, mandirg that measures should be taken to secure the
persons and property of the inhabitants of Monte
Video, in case that city should be compelled to capitu-
late ; one by M. Riudot, inviting the President of the
Republic to make known to the government of Monte
Video the resolution of the French government to
cease the payment of the subsidy from the day the
treaty was broken off; and lastly, one by M. Des-
mousseaux de Givre, proposing to reduce the credit
demanded by 500,000 fr.

M. Cremieux demanded that the Assembly should
take into consideration four of the amendments wlich
had hien just read, and refer them to the c ,mmittee;
as to the others—

Several Voices—The Anembly must decide without
die; ueeion.
M. Cremieux—l do not discuss.

The President—The regulations of the Assembly do
not allow you to proceed. (M. Cremieux left the tri-
bune.) I shall now proceed to consult the Assco.bly
as to taking the am• ndmenta into consideration, as
their simultaneous reference t 3 the committee has
bt en demacded.

The Assembly decided that the amendments of M.
Memoutseaux de Givre, M. Rtudot, M. Fevre, and
M. Savoys, should not be taken into consideration.
A division then took place on that of M. de Rt 1,61,
when the numbers were—

Ayes
Nuts

• 315
. 312

Majority
The amendment was eonsequehtly declared to be
taken into consideration, and was re!enci to the
committee.

Such wee the conclusion of this fruitless dtbate,
which he taken up three days, spent in wrangling
and noise.

Many pers.ms seemed anxiousto kuow, when it was
over, what it was that had so suddenly changed the
warlike ardour of M. Dieu, and it was said that It
was in consequence of despatched frcm the cabinets of
Washington and London, communicated by General
de la }Hite to the committee, from which di.-agree-
meets might arise between these governments and
France. I give you this intelligence for what you
may think it worth.
M. Thiers would have spoken but for a violent
hemorrhage of the mouth with which he was
troubled during the sitting; bas' his activity did not
cease. He voted tho warlike amendment of M. Jules
Fevre. M. Berryer followed his example, but MM.
Mole, Itlontalembert, De Broglie, aad De Maleville
voted with the government.
The Orleaniste are continuing toorganise their new
club ; M. Piseatory, M. de Maleville, and it is even
said M. Faucher, are very active in the matter.
Conferences have taken place in order to induce
several members of the moderate republican party to
join, such, for instance, as MM. Dufaure, Barrot, and
de Toequeville. I do not as yet kno.c the result.
The club meets at the house of the Duke de Broglie
Btf .re the public sitting in the Chamber yesterday
the representatives met in their bureaux, and appointed
committee on the bill relating to deposits in the sav-
ings banks, and on that tending to extend for three
months longer the interdiction pronounced relative to
the liquidation of the old cistl list. No discus-ion
took place on the first, but some explanations were
given by M. Dupla on the latter; in the course of
which he stated that the three months demanded
would not, most probably, be sufficient. Property had
been already sold to the extent of six or seven mil-
Inns, and as much more was at present advertised for
sale. In his opinion not less than a year would be
required to wind up the affairs of the civil list. Va-
time attempts Lad been made both in France and
abroad to raise a loan on the property, but, notwith-
standing the excellence of the security, every endea-
vour had hitherto proved unsuccessful. The hon. gen-
tleman, in conclusion, asked why the sequestration
should be continued on the property of the Duke
d'Aumale, who had no creditors? There was no pre-
text whatever, he said, for any further interference in
the duke's affairs. The commit:ere, in both cases
were favourable to the bills.
• The committee on the budget yesterday received
communication of the new proposition of the minister
of public works, relative to the railroad from Paris to
Avignon. The new bill, which was read by the
minister in the presence of the minister of finance", is
the same as that first presented by M. Lacrosse, with-
out the proposed subvention of of millions of trance,
and with the fixation of 260 millions as the maximum
of the capital necessary for the execution of the works
to be undertaken by the company, and fur which the
stare will guarantee an interest of 5 per cent. The
division of the profits between the state and the com-
pany is not to take place fur lo years, and then only
in the event of the profits exceeding 8 per cent., and
at the end of these 15 years, the state is to have the
power of purchasing the line it it shall wish to
do so. The minister of public works stated that he con-
sidered the guarantees offered by the company which
had tendered for the whole Rases good, but it had riot
yet signified its adhesion to the above conditions.
The Moniteur of this morning contains the law
increasing the number of electoral districts.