The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-05-23 00:00:00

PRINCESS It YAL'S DOWRY.

On the mrAion that the house re-t lye itself into a
conitnitree of the whole house to consider the Queen's
message,

Mr. Roebuck rose, not he said to oppose the motion,
but to express an opinion which was shared in by many
of the people Oftbis country. He felt that he hada divided '
duty on the present occasion—'a duty- to his Sovereign, and
a duty to. his constituents. The Sovereign had by her
conduetas a daughter, a wife, and a mother, so won open
the people, that the respect to the Sovereign was almost
lost in the affection to the woman, and all would delight in
sendine forth her daughter, to the husband her Majeety
had selected for her, in a manner becoming the
daughter of this great country as she was. But
they owed a duty to the people also ; while they
Were generous, therefore, let them be just. He
wished to Meat the message of her Majesty as it deserved;
but while they were providing for ti-ee wants of the princess
they must take care not to press too heavily on the tax-
payers of this country
.The house was now about to
establish a precedent, and what it was about to do for one
member of the royal family it might be called upon to do
or the others. The Princess Royal was about to ally
herself to a great house, and the house was about to provide
for her—not as a Queen, but t provide for her comfort
and happiness as a wife. In the case of the marriage of
the Princess Royal in the reign of George 111., parliament
determined to make a grant of £BO,OOO, and thus to dis-
charge their engagements for ever. An applieation was
made to the Irish parliaMent also, and they voted tbe sum
of £5,000 a' year. The course pursued by the; English
Parliament on that oceasion was that which would meet
the wishes of the people of England on the present occa-
sion, and he true ed that no annual allowance would be
proposed. Let the sum given be a generous one, but
let not the country be hampered wiih an ani'u•ty: (Hear.)
The Princess Royal was about to ally herself with a power
with which this couotryanight, sometime, be at war and ho
could not forget the manner in which this country had
been treated by Prussia. He trusted that the Princess
Royal would be sent forth like a daughter of England, with
on ample 'and liberal grant, but that no annuity would be
proposed. (Cheers.)
Lord Palmerston' trusted 'that the house would not
by any discussion anticipate the proposition which the
Chancellor of the Rocheqner was about to submit to
the house. (Hear, hear.) He was willing to make every
allowance for the earnestness of the honourable member;
but he would submit to •the house that it was neither
consistent with respect to the crown nor the efficiency of
the proceedit ge of the house, to discuss a matter which had
not yet been submitted to its consideration. The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer would state the allowance which
it was intended to pia pose, and the reasons on which the
allowance was founded, and then the question would be
open forfulldiecuseion. (Hear.)
The houqi resolved itself into committee, and her
Majesty's ineesege having been read,
The Chancellor of the Exchequer begged that the
committee would allow hen to staie the nature of the ar-
rangement, by which her Majesty and the royal family were
provided for in a pecuniary manner. The honourable
and learned member would find that he proposed to be
just as well as generous. Formerly the crown did possess
large revenues. These hal, from time to time, been sur-
rendered to the country, parliament having undertaken to
provide pecuniary allowance, under the name of the civil
list, to the eovereign. The policy of parliament had been
to make the sovereign only dependant upon it. In ihis
respect foreign countries had no share in any jealousy.
The Princess Royal was about to be married to a prince
of a family which possessed hereditary property, and was
not dependant-on the Prussian parliament ; but as the
was dependant on' her parliament,
sovereign of England
when any question like the present arose, parliament was
hound, in strict justice, to melte the necessary provision.
Re would contrast the present civil list to that of
George 111 , with whose position the circumstances of her
present Majesty in respect to family, &c , most assimilated.
That comparison was not, however, a simple question.
The civil Lot of George lll.—the arrangement by which
the personal expenses of the sovereign and the arrange.

ments for carrying on the civil service differed in some
respects from that of her present Majesty, inasmuch as it
included the salaries of the judges and other charges of
that nature. Omitting these which were not included in
her Majesty's civil list, he would make a comparison be-
tween the two. The civil list of George 111 was as
follows :—Privy purse, £60,000 ; allowance for household
and ex-household expenses, £236,000; household salaries,
£131,000; other salaries, £l6a 05 ; and royal bounty,
£1,353 ; nuking tcgether £447,436 He would now state
the amount of tee civil list at the present time. The
allowance for the privy purse was £60,000 and for salaries,
£131,260, being £lO,OOO more than the time of George
111 , lent at that period there was an extensive amount of
payments and gratuities to members of the :Revel house-
ooid, which made the actual amount greater than it was
at the present time. The expenses of the household were
now £172,000. The allowance for the Royal Bounty was
£13,600, and there were some other items which brought
up the total amount to £385,000, as compared with
£447,000, the Civil List of George the Third There
were some other points which were material for the consi-
deration of the house. The Kiog did not surrender the
whole of his hereditary revenues, but £12,705,461 was
placed at the disposal of the Crown from those hereditary
revenues. The sum applicable to the Civil List expenses
was £6,732,617. In addition to the Civil List provided by
Parliament, George 111 received six millions and a-half,
the whole of which' had been surrendered by the Crown,
and no portion of it was received by her Majesty. George
111., in additioneduring the minority of the Prince of Wales.
received the revenues of the Duchy of Cornwall, but these
revenues during the reign of her Majesty had been devoted
to the education of the Prince of Wales, and the surplus
had been inve-ted for his Royal Highness's benefit. An-
other point of difference was, that her Majesty had not in-
curred debts as former sovereigns had done, calling upon
Parliament periodically to pay them. (Cheers.) The
amount of debts paid by Parliament during the reign of
George 111.. for what might be called excesses in the Civil
List, was £3,297.000. George 111. also received certain
indirect charges for annuities granted to certain members
of the royal family—the annuities granted to the Princess
Dowager of Wales, the Duke of Cumberland, and the
Princess Amelia, amounting to £77,000 a year—which,
when they fell in, were not recalled. The
whole amounts received by George 111. were—direct
grants of the Civil. List, £6,713 000, and from the special
resources he had, used £3,297,000, . the . total being
£10,029,000, the Queen Charlotte's. was £68,000 a year,
whereas Prince Albert's was only £30,000, and beyond this
allowances were made for the supply of the children of
George 111. from a very early age, no corresponding
charge having been inaposedon the nation by her Majesty,
Then there were the allowances to the Prince of Wales,
the PrinCess Charlotte, and other charges of a similar
nature on the account of the ycunger branches of the royal
family. Her present. Majesty had been subject to large
expenses of a public nature, not contemplated in 'he civil
list, for which she had made no claim on Parliament—he
alluded to the visit of the Emperor of the French to this
country, and her Majesty's visit to the Emperor—a visit
not made for her personal pleasure. (Oh, oh, and
laugher.) It certainly was not for the purpose'
of the gratification of the Sovereign ; but
in the interest of tbd nation and of Europe. (Hear, hear.)
When George 1111. visited his Hanoverian dominions he
rtceived on one occasion £40,000, and on another
£52,953 froM the Admiralty Droits. In former reigns
lie' expenses incurred when Foreign Sovereigns visited
this country were paid by the nation. Again, in previous
reigns the whole charge of the Royal Palaces had been
met by parliament in addition the civil list, which in the
nresent reign had not been the case. Her Majesty had
expended, in alterations to the palaceF, upwards of £30,000,
and'she had:algo volimtarity paid the income tax, which
no other sovereign had ever before done, to the amount of
£15,500; (hear), whilst, on the one hand, the allowance to
George 111 was greater than the allawance to her Majesty,
*she had undertik,n the payment of expenses which were
not defrayed by George 111., and her Majestys' income was
list, the charges which she had borne were greater.
The provisi ,n which he now asked was, therefore, that
which not only appealed to the sense and generosity, but
to the justice of the house. (Hear, hear.) her Majesty
had never asked the house for the payment of any debts.
Her household had been ordered with the most prudent
economy, and she had fulfilled, in the strictest manner,
the engagements into which she had entered with paella-
meet The civil list, arranged at the commencement of
the Queen's reign, made no provision for the younger
branches of the royal family for such an event as was
about to occur. The marriage of her Majesty's e'dest
daughter, and anything she. might eevote to the maintain-
erica of her Royal Highness, would cease with the life
of het Majesty, as the evil list was granted only
for the life of a sovereign. He would cell. "atten-
ton to what had been. &he on former occasions, and the
first precedent he would . refer to was the Princess
Royal-, daughter of George ll.—(laughter) —who -in
1734 married the Prince Of, Orange. 'Parliament on "that
occasion granted t ) the Princess an annuity of £5,000
a-year for her life in addition to a dower of OEBO,OOO. The
Princess Royal the daughter of George 111. received a
similar provision. He proposed to follow the precedents
which existed, but to alter the proportion of the annuity
to the sum to be voted ae a grant. What her Majesty's
Government proposed was an annuity of £B,OOO a-year
and a marriage portion of only £40,000. (Hear, hear,
and sensation.) He 'rusted th .t upon reflection the house
wou d agree to such a reasonable and moderato proposition,
and that it weuld be voted with perfect unanimity. He
might, perheps, be allowed to remind the house of the fact
that Prince Frederick of Prussia was not an alien in blood
to the royal family, being a descendant of the Electoress
Sophia. He concluded by proposing that an annuity of
£B,OOO be granted 011ie Princess Royal to commence with
her marriage. •
Mr. Roebuck moved, as an amendment, that the com-
mittee make provision for her Royal Highness by granting
a sum certain insteecl of by way of annuity. (Hear.) He
thought the example of parliament in George the Third's
time ought not to b 3 followed by the present parl anent.
(Hear.) Of late years the civil list had been settled on
rational principles for the comfort of the sovereign. The
sum paid to her Majesty amounted to £400,000 a-year.
Prince Al'uint - received £30,000 a-year, be-ides other
emolunieute. Every hing had t sea done for the comfort
of tee Queen and her royal consort, and she had shown
herself worthy of the people, and the people had shown
themselyes Worthy of hear. (Hear, hear.) Parlament
had dealt out for her comfort with no niggard hand. let
them, then, look to the interests of the country and to the
future, for there was a large family to provide for. (Hear,
hear.) And as a representative of the hard working
people, he w.tuld say when we are generous let us be dust.
Tne hon. and learned gentleman concluded by moving his
amendment.
Mr. W. Williams seconded the amendment.

The bhancellor of the Exchequer said the proposition
of the hon. and learned member for Sheffield was difficult
to deal will, inasmuch as he had no mentioned any
specific sum. (Hear, hear.) The intended annuity was
intented to cease wi h the life of heiltoyal Highness, and
he thought such an annuity preferable •to such a large
amoun tea a marriage portion. (Cheers.)
Sir Charles -Napier thougni that before granting any
dowry to the Prince,,s Roya;. the House ought to know
what settlement was to be made by the King ofPruesia on
his nephew. (Cheers and laughter.)
Lord J, Russell said that when her Majesty C4lllO to
the throne, a sum was fixed upon to enable he:. Majesty.
to uphold the dignity of that the one, and he thought the
principle on which the amount was fixed wav a very
just t.ne. Her Majesty, while not coining to the house
for the payment-of any dsbts, had maintained the dignity
and splendour of her position. Now, when her daughter
was suitably matched, it was necessary- that some provision
should -be made for the marriage, and if there -was
nothing unreasonable in the proposition cf the Govern-
ment, he thought the:house ought to assent to it (Cheers.)
In his opinion, he thought that the. proposal was nc.t at
all unreasonable, _bat rathE:r the contrary. (Cheers.)
With regard- to the amount being voted in one sun], he'
did not see what advantage could arise from that course,
and should therefore support -the proposition which had
been submitted to tha hawse by the Chancellor of • the
Exchequer k Cheers.)
Meb•
legse:abtutc.wkenei:.w d.tohe sum proposed by Government
amounted to £216,0 ;0 odd. Ac,ording to the best annu-
ity tables,
to the £ ears' purchase, £B,OOO a year, in
40,000,
would amount to the stun ha had
mentioned.

Mr. Bass thought it would be better
yesr for twenty-two yeari4 than
ther to p
capitalay 8
;uoomO a
of
£176,000, and he 711:malit the country would entertain the
same view of the subject.
Mr. James Clay wished to know whether the real quss-
tion entertained wes as to the amount proposed,lor to the
mode of granting it? (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Roebuck said he objected both to the amount and
the manner. (Hear, hear )
Mr. Disraeli thought to &Dimity very desirable, and said
that, from the last remark of the hon. and learned member
for f...;heffield, he entertained the hope thatno division would
take place. Appeals tike the present had been rendered
necessary by the jealousy of Parliament, and ought to be
liberally responded to. (Cheers) He considered that
the present appeal was not only necessary, but thought that
it was one which must be received with sympathy and
affection. Did it not appear to the house that they were
discussing a question of a very trivial character? (Cheers.)
If the appeal was a proper one—if there was a question on
which the opinion of a Government ought to be deferred
to, surely it was such a else as the present, (Hear, hear.)
If theprineipal of the 'rant IPA been opposed, and the
queition of amount had been considered unreasonable,

then there might have been some reason for going to a
division, but believing that the difference of opinion,which
existed was very triffivg, he trusted the vote wadd be
unanimously agreed to. (Cheers.)
Mr. Conyngham supported the amendment of the hon.
member for Sheffield on pecuniary and also on political
grounds. The Princess Royal was about to marry into a
foreign family, and he could not help viewing such con-
nexion without the greatest jealousy. (lien., hear.)

After a few words from Colonel North,
Lord Elcho expressed a hope that the hon. member for
Sheffield would withdraw his amendment. (Cheers.)
Mr. Roebuck said he did not wish to press his opinions
against those of the House generally, and, therefore, would
not put it to the trouble dividing (Cheers.)
The resolution was then agreed to, and the House
resumed.

On the motion for going into Committee of Supply,
Sir G. B. Pechell drew attention to the increased im-
portation of slaves into the Island of Cuba, and to the
insufficient number and class of her albjetty's vessels
employed along those coasts for the suppression of the
slave trade. _

Sir Charles Wood thought what was required was
increase]. vigilance on the coast of Africa.
The subject then dropped. A further discussion then
took place respecting the location of the German Legion
at the Cape. After this the house went into a committee
of supply. Votes of £4,000 for the Princess Royal,
£46,722 for miscellaneous services, and other votes, were
agreed to After a desultory conversation, V:e Transp-r-
-tation and Penal Servitude Bill was read a third time and

passed.
The house adjourned at twenty minutes past twelve.

THE

MERSEY CONSERVANCY
• BILL.

(FRO3I OUR OWN REPORTER.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY.

The select committee appointed to enquire into the
various bills now before parliament for the conservancy of
the river Mersey, and for the construction and manage-
ment of docks in Liverpool and Birkenhead, re-assembled
this morning at twelve o'clock, and proceeded at once to
the consideration of the " Mersey Conservancy and Docks
Bill.

Sir James Graham occupied the chair, and the whole
of the members cf the committee were present. The com-
mittee room was crowded throughout the day by gentle-
men interested in the enquiry.
Sir J. Potter and Mr. Aspinall Turner, the members for
Manchester, were also in attendance, as also were Mr.
Horsfall and Mr. J. C. Ewart. .

Mr. Sergeant Wrangham, before opening the case on
behalf of the promoters, said that he was afraid that it
would be out of his power to compress his observations
within concise limits. There was, however, one point in
which he was desirous of conforming entirely to the
suggestions of the committee. The committee hat decided
upon proceeding first with the Mersey conservancy bill,
That bill was separated into two divisions, the first of which,
had reference to the constitution of the board, which
would have to administer the conservancy funds of the
River Mersey, and the application of dues levied within
the Mersey ; while the second had reference to the com-
pletion of the works in Birkenhead. The committee
would find in the preamble of the bill, an affirmation of a
duty on the part of a new conservancy board, to complete
the docks with all dispatch in accordance with Mr.
Rendell's plans. His learned friend who opposed the bill
(Mr. Merewether,) and who promote 1 docks altogether
inconsistent with Mr, Rendell's plans, would, he
believed, object to the conservancy bill being
affirmed, until he should have set up the
plans which the corporation suggested. Under these
circumstances he (Mr Sergeant Wrangham) was anxious
that he should not be prohbited, after his learned friend
had set up his affirmative, from giving further evidence.
Mr. Merewether, Q C., was perfectly ready, as the
Conservancy Bill was to be gone into first, to pledge
himself not to introduce the physical question of the con-
struction of works.

Sir J. Graham observed, lhat if the preamble of the bill
was affirmed, the question would then arise as to the con
struction of the works, and if it was not affirmed the com-
mittee would then fall back upon the other bills in
reference to construction.

________
Mr. Merewether said there were two points to consider,
one of which might be termed a political question, while
the other was a physical question. The first related to the
constitution of the Dock Trust, and the second to the
nature of the" docks to be constructed. The proposition
which he would make was, that no part of the physical
matter with respect to construction should be introduced
into the Conservancy question. His conduct, however,
would be regolated by that of his learned friend. If his
learned friend left the question of construction alone, he
(Mr. Mereweiher) would do the same.
Mr. Sergeant Wrangham then opened the case. He
said, he approached the question with more than ordinary
'anxiety, because he was dealing with a question of more
than ordinary importance. The questions involved in the
bill were of a very simple character. The two great prin-
ciples, apart altogether from the question of construction
which pervaded the bill, were simply that those who paid
the dues ought to elect those who administered them, and
that the employment of the dues, when paid, should be
for the benefit of those who paid them. It would be for
the committee to consider whether the body at present
invested with the paramount power in managing the port
and collectin g the dues, ought to be exempted from thes pp tica-
tion of these geat principles. He reminded the committee
that the bill was promoted by persons who were not likely
to be influenced in favour of a mere theoretical measure.
Its promoters were the two commercial associations of the
city of Manchester—the Manchester Chamber of Com-
merce and the C,ty 'of Manchester Commercial Association,
who might be taken to represent the manufacturing interest
of Lancashire—and also the proprietors ,of the Great,
Western system of railways, who, at a great outlay, had
succeeded in completing their railway system from the
metropolis to Southampton, and, from the western and
southern coasts of the Country to the banks of the
Mersey. The natural outlet for the products which
this railway system dealt with, was the River Mersey,
and he thought that the great interests thus
involved were suffiCiently important to disturb the
paramount influence (of the local authorities.
The learned counsel then procee led to state the nature of
the various trusts which exist at present. In the first
place there were the conservators of Liverpool, who were
represented by an officer designated the acting conservator,
an officer of the Board of Trade. The bill proposed to
elect a conservancy board, consisting of 21 members, 18
of whom would be elected by the payers of rates, where-
ever resident, and the remaining three would be appointed
by the present conservators. There was also now in
existence a p lotage committee, appointed by 127 pilotage
commissioners, of whom 41 were the nominees of the Cor-
poration. The pilotage fund, according to the report of the
Br and of Trade, received about £B,OOO year from the public
taxes of the country in lieu of differential duties formerly
taken on foreign ships. A given part of the earnings of
the pilots, including this payment from the public taxes,
wes awarded to the twelve pilot boats. These boats were
owned by the pilots themselves, in shares, which they could
leave to their widows an ! children. The sums awarded to
the boats were so large that the purchase money given by
the pilots for a boat which had cost £2,000, amounted to
three or fur times that sum, and the interest on the money
so invested amounted to nine per cet t. It was, therefore,
no exaggeration to say that the public in general paid
ncarly ,tB,OOO a-year in order to provide an extravagant
investment for the earnings of the Liverpool pilots.
A third body, which was, in reality, the great authority
in regard to all questions respecting the conservancy
of the Mersey, was the town and council of Liverpool. In
order to enable the committee to understand the important
question which they would have to consider, he would
briefly trace the history of the connection of the corpora-
tion with the conservancy of the river. According to the

Bapert ef the Board of Trade, the history and constitution
of the Dock Trust was very intricate, and were comprised
in a series of privaie acts, commencing in the year 1709,
and extending to the present time. The managing body
was originally the Mayor, alderman, and council, but in
1785 that bod,y wasre-incorporated for Dock purposes under
the title of the "Trustees of the Liverpool ,Docks." The
learned serjeant then at considerable length entered into a
history of the construction of the various docks, and their
connection with the different trusts. For many years up
to 'lie close of last century, the corporation, in order to
attract commerce to the p ,rt, gave land for the construc-
tion of docks, but as the port increased in importance,
and the trade became extended, the corporation changed
their mode of treating the establishment of decks, and
instead of giving the land for dock purposes, sold it for the
price wibichihey received for land adjoining. The differ-
ence in their mode of action began from the moment it
became apparent that the trade of Lancashire mu't find its
outlet in the Mereey. 'I hey then in their capacity of
corporation, a topted the principle of selling to them-
selves in their capacity of dock trustees. In 1811
the Dock Comulittee were first incorporated, and
they took power t.) settle the price of land by
a jury. In 1825 a change was made in the
constitution of the managing body, which w,ss fixed to
c,neist of a chairman, twnve members of the corporation
selected by the Town Council, and eight gentlemen elected
by the parties 'c ho paid the duel., though with certain
restrictions as to re:Jidenee The o,rporation, h,9Neevcr,