The Express.
London, England, 1861-07-30 00:00:00

STANDING ORDERS.

Lord REDEBDALE moved that the standing orders re-
commended by the select committee in regard to companies'
subscribing, &c., powers be adopted.
The motion wan agreed to.

APPROPRIATION OF SEATS (SUDBURY AND T.

ALBANS) BILL.
Earl GRAN VILLE moved that the house should go into
committee upon this bill, supporting his motion with some
remarks which were inaudible in the gallery.
Lord :WRATH EDEN moved as au amendment that the
' bill be referred to • select committee. It was only Weer.
easy to compare the bill originally introduced with that
which his noble friend now moved, to convince anyof their lard-
ships that for the measure as it now
appeared, anther his noble
nd frie nor any of his colleagues were in any way responsible.
At the period of the session which they had now reached it
was impossible to consider the bill in in details, and he was
Induced to submit his amendment as 6:peening an opinion,
that it was not desirable to proceed at such a time with a
tonsure involving such important principles. South Lan-
cashire had not expressed any strong desire for this measure,
whilst the Scotch universities would be deeply disappointed
at it. If parliamentere reform were to be accomplished by
• series of small measures, be certainly hoped it would nos
be inaugurated by such a IQ as this.
The Earl of DERBY said be hoped he might enures it
was not the intention of her Majesty's government to secede'
to the suggestion of the noble bares who had just set
down, that this bill should be referred tog select committee,
which would probably report about the middle of August.
(A laugh.) He could not recollect any bill for which there
appeared to be lees reason that it should be referred to a
select committee than this. The facts were all plain and
undisputed, and there were oo very complicated details to
be discussed. It was s bill of a very plain and straight-
forward character, which he thought perfectly well capable
of being discussed in a committee of their lordships' house.
He bad no fault to find with the bill, which lie thought had
bees greatly improved in its program through the
House of Commons by the mampulation it had
nn-
dergove, and which the government appeared to bays
submitted to with the most exemplary patience.
The measure of the government of which be was a member
in 1852 was rejected mainly by the influence of the right
honourable gentlemen the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
who until • short time ago was supposed to be one of the
most prominent candidates for one of the seats proposed to
be created by the present bill. They proposed by the bill
of 1852 to confer two seats on the West Riding and two aa
South Lancashire. He bad always entertained • very strong
prehensile for two sesta instead of three for counties. But
until wow Birkenhead had not risen to the importance abed
since attained,and be eould not blame her Majesty's govern-
ment for having seliffed this town for one of thinnest seats.
U, indeed, it were contemplation of the government
to introduce any veey large and extensive plan of parlia-
mentary reform, he sheuld have thought they were acting
mast unwisely in hampering themselves by the introduction
of this smaller measure. He should then certainly have
thought that there was some reason in the complaint of the
noble lord, that by peniug this tonsure they were prevented
from giving due consideration to the claims of other places
by passing a general measure of reform. In the bill of the
government with which he (the Earl of Derby) was con-
nected not only were these seats provided for, but provi-
sion was made for all those places also which the noble
lord had enumerated, the London University, the Scotch
Universities, and Chelsea and Kensington—only that they
were provided for in a different mode, by sub-dividing the
county cocstituency; and he thought the principal claims to
representation were satisfied. It was not the pleasure
of the liberal party to allow that measure to pan, but be
bowed to the determination to which they arrived ; and he
was perfectly ready. to give his op-operation to her Majesty's
government in paring the partial measure they had now
introduced. He assumed that the government had no very
extensive scheme of parliamentary reform to bring forward ;
first of all because he thought that recent experience might
have shown them that small boroughs were not without their
use in the political system of the country, and they might
now possibly be glad to find six Rielimoods in the field.
(Laughter.) But he was also inclined to suppose that DO
such scheme was in view, from the assurance given by—he
did not know whether he might yet call him the noble
earl whom they might shortly expect to have the honour
and satisfaction of seeing in that house, and whom all their
lordships on both sides, he was sure, would rejoice to see
amongst them. (Cheers.) That Doke lord had expressed
his opinion veiy calididly that there was no use in bringing
forward a measure of reform unless there was
• strong feeling in favour of it on the
part of the public, and he represented very
correctly that there was no such feeling in the country, and
therefore that there was no such temptation held out. He
(the Earl of Derby) formed the conclusion also, not only
from what the noble lord had said but from what he had
done ; for the noble lord had selected that precise moment,
he overlaid. like another Astnea, disgusted with the
follies and unquities of the lower world, to leave it, and
IMO about to rise to • higher, calmer, and, he (Lord
Derby) hoped, • purer atmosphere. (Laughter.) And
be could not wonder that the noble lord, who
had devoted so many yens and so much attention
to pulling down and building up the edifice, should be glad
to take the opportunity of finishing his work at once by
filling up the gaps which had so long deformed its beauty
by giving the recent seats to the West Riding, South Lan-
cashire, and Birkenhead. Of those places he supposed it
might be said that—
Extrema per illoe
Justitia, excedens terries, vestige feciL
As the bill at present stood be had no objection to offer to 1
it, and he had no doubt it would give very general satisfac-
tion. Certain alterations he believed would be needed, first
of all to make it English, and next to make it sense—(a
laugh)—end they could be made in commit-
tee. Seriously, however, he did hope that what-
, ever might be the ulterior views and ulterior wishes
of her Majesty's government, they had paused on the sub-
ject of parliamentary reform in the course they had been
pursuing, and that the last few years would be • wanting
to the present and all future governments not to bring for-
ward promises too hastily, nor to pledge the name of the
sovereign to the introduction of any measure which they
did not seriously think they should be able to carry. Cer-
tainly in 1115$ lie (Lard Derby) had thought himself bound
earnestly and sincerely to apply himself to the introduction
I of a measure which he hoped would have given satisfaction
to moderate men ; but that attempt had not inn with the
I encore; he had anticipated. Her Majesty's government, no
doubt with equal careening, and sincerity, had also applied
themselves to the hob, and they had equally failed. He
trusted, therefore, that after the failure of stemenne mea-
-1 sure, introduced by suconsivo governments, it was now
clear that no one was wider any pledge to deal with the
subject ' • but that it was one which must be left to the
dis-
cretion of each government to introduce or not as they
thought best, and that uo one would be open to any re-
proach far abstaining from an attempt to dispose of so diM•
cult and delicate a question. (Cheers.)
Earl GRANVILLE entirely agreed with the noble earl
that it was not desirable to refer the bill to • select commit-
tee. The other house had always objected to adopt such a
course with reward to any measure affecting the coostitu-
sioo, and though this house was no doubt bound to oppose
any measure affecting the composition of that assembly, if it
seemed to their lordships to be contrary to right principle,
their lordships would otherwise be naturally disposed to
receive from the other house the preposition which it
thought best for tilling up the number of its members.
Unless, therefore, the object of the amendment was to pro-
cure the rejection of the bill altogether, it was not likely
that any useful result would accrue from referring it to a
select committee • and he trusted that his noble friend
would withdraw his proposal. It was very agreeable to her
Majesty's government to receive the approbation of the
noble lord, and it at least peeved them to have been ac-
tuated in this matter by no party motives or intentions.
With regard to the changes which had been made in the bill
in the other house, lie must say that they were
not after all of • very grave character, for they
merely transferred to the West Riding the and
proposed to be given to Chelsea and Kensington. If he