The Express.
London, England, 1868-03-11 00:00:00

METROPOLITAN CAB FMtEi,

Mr. T. CHAYBEili;skedtkeFierreti7ry of State for the
Home Department whether his attention had been called
to the book of cab fares issued by authority and the plates
affixed to the cabs, both of which are maculated to mislead
the public ea to the alteration in cab fares made by au act
of last seesion. .

-Itr.l3Aligir. replied that there was undoubtedly a mis-
take, but he was going to introduce a bill on the subject,
and as the cabmen knew there was a mistake it would not
be well perhaps to interfere with the matter in the mean-
time.
CHURCH RATES ABOLITION BILL.

Mr. ifianbairiTiZtil7l;ill:-;:;;TTesaing of
this bill.
CHURCH-RATE REGULATION BILL:

Mr. HUBBARD moved the second reading of this bill.
He observed that the question involved was not one
merely of money, but one which had much wider bearings.
Between the two extreme parties who had so long been
at war on the subject there was another section which was
desirous of an adjustment of the question on • prin-
ciple which recognised the rights of the established
church, and at the same time recognised the principle of
religious liberty. While the question was viewed with a
one-sided aspect it was impossible that any settle-
ment could take place. In the interest of general
convenience, and consistently with common sense, it
was thought that the best mode of meeting the ,
difficulty was by exemption, and it was on that principle
that his bill was founded. He did not admit that personal
objections existed here, and there was • sufficient reason
for abolishing the rate ; but the view on which hie measure
was founded was that no one should be compelled to con-
tribute to a fund in which he had no interest and no stake.
The system of relief which he proposed as regarded in-
dividuals was very 'ample, and as regarded large bodies
belonging to the churchhe proposed to enable them to
raise rates for their own district church instead of the
mother church. The objects in view were carried out in
the simplest and least objectionable manner. He believed
the bill would be effective, and the relief given to indivi-
-444 and diettiote complete. He would now leave the
disposition of the matter in the hands of the house.
Sir S. NORTHCOTE supported the bill. He bad
always maintained that the existing system of church
rates was a fair and equitable one. At the same time it
was desirable to adopt some means of meeting objections,
and the supporters of the church had agreed as to
the necessity of • compromise. It was of no use,
however, to propose a compromise which did
Oat seem likely to be accepted, and that was the reason
why the government had not proposed a measure. They
felt that it was desirable that the house should address
itself to the two plans before it, that of the hon. member
for Buckingham (Mr. Hubbard) and that of the right hon.
gentleman (Mr. Gladstone), and see whether any settle-
ment could be effected. He would Bugged that
both bills should be referred to a committee ;
and that his bon. friend the member for North Warwick-
shire (Mr. Newdegate) should consent to postpone his bill
until it was seen whether or not a compromise could be
(haled.

Mr. NEWDEGATE said he had no objection to post-
pone his bill till the same day as that on which the bill of
the bon. member for Bury (Mr. Hardman.) should
again be brought forward. (Hear, hear.) They both
bad the same object in so far as both sought to abolish the
power of compulsorily levying church rates. He would post-
pone his Lill till the Bth of April, that being the day for
which the bill of the bow member for Bury now stood for
the second reading. He objected to both Mr. Hubbard's
noel Mr. liadcastle's bill', because they ticketed dissenters
end were opposed to the parochial organisation' which was
ieetitial to the working of the established church.
Mr. HARI/CASTLE said his reason for postponing his
hill was that he wished the discussion of that day to turn
chiefly on the bill of the right bon. gentleman (Mr. Mad-
Ntoto.), of which in its present shape he entirely approved.
lle concluded by moving as an amendment to the motion
t. leave out the word now " and substitute the words
" Nth of April."
Mr. HOPE regretted the amendment, as tending to
4,-lay the settlement of the question until a new pulls,
nolit had met. He wished the last legacy of the
constitution of 1832 to be an olive branch on the
I.l.ject of church rates. The proposal to postpone
the hill till the Bth April, was a round-about way
oi dropping the question. The question to be decided
tamed now mainly on what was called the " ticketing" of
de, inters. After all, what was the objection to ticketing,
if it were looked upon, not in a sentimental way,
1.. it as a matter of common sense? What was
tie- objection to being ticketed? There were five-
ataltwenty noblemen who were glad enough to be
t ck.-ted with a star and a garter, and there were 638
ri,i iiibers of that house who did not object to being
ti teted " M.P." (Laughter.) The whole world was a
s),teiii of ticketing. He objected, indeed, himself to the
h.rut abolition, as tnconsirtent with what was due to the
ton ref.

I:I.ADSTONE did not understand on what ground
sac proposed that both his own bill and that of
1,, lon. member for Buckingham should be referred to a
....woottee. At all events, notice should have been given
a proposal. (Hear.) The meaning of that pro-
was, he supposed, that they were to cooed* to the
•-tend reading of the hon. member's bill, and then refer
to the saute committee as his own bill, which
.;ht he called the bill of the honourable mem-
for Birmusgbam or of the late Mr. Fox.
not, he thought, be wise to refer to the same
..... ittee bills founded on opposite principles. The ob-
. tof the reference was, he presumed, to test the prin-
, ;•!,. of his bill, and that was a question which ought to be
•ded on the second reading. There were four plans
we the house, and they were perfectly distinct First
e was that of the hon. member for Bury,whkli that hon.
-•,oher was willing to postpone in favour of his own.
.I.= to the bill of the hon. member for North Warwickshire
(Mr. Newdeaste), it was ruinous to the parochial system.
Mr. NEWDEGATE—The right hon. gentleman cannot
e read the bill. (Laughter.)
Mr. GLADtiTONE said the real question was whether
t' • it• was any hope of making one bill out of his own
I that of the hon. member for Buckinghamshire, and he
I,.l.eved there was none. Either his main clauses would
•...1.1 in committee, or the main clauses of the hon.
:•.eciber would stand, and whichever stood the others
fall. His hon. friend and himself both
,re up the principle of church rates. He felt
oond to take the sense of the house on the question
nether it should be necessary to take some personal step
r assume some particular character in order to obtain
• emption. He *wished also to take security that the
,oluntary promises should be voluntary promises oily,
..t..11 should not be liable to enforcement at law.
Mr. HUBBARD, in reply, said he entirely abjured in
1.:. bill the principle of compulsion. Even if a person had
-sinned responsibility, be oould get rid of it by a stroke of
pen.
Mr. W.tLPOLE wished to make an appeal to his hon.
hived (Mr. Hubbard.) He thought it would be best to go
committee on his right hon. friend (Mr. Gladstone s)
• ..i I.,.fure raising again the question of a claim to *temp-
on the part of dissenters. (Hear.) They would *WI
t•,ree to themselves the tallest power on the Bth of
I ; I. (I fear, hear.)
Mr. 'I4IIARD assented to this suggestion, and the
reading was accordingly postponed till the Bth of
Ap:11.
votIPUL..3OIIY CHURCH RATES ABOLITION
BILL.

The home then went into committee on this bill (Mr.
I rn clolute 1, which abolished oompulsory church-rates,
Mr. HENLEY said he objected to the abolition of the
toolmkory power of levying church-rates, and should
GtAr neon on the clause.
The committee divided, when there appeared :
For the clause
Aliainst

Majority 1:17
',it S. NORTHCOTE expbdued why he did not vote.
lle ~usi4ered the first dame one involving the main
Hiruiple ot the bill. Having been in favour of the hill
Ping to a committee, he eould not vote spinet
rhc clause ; and, on the other hand, not approving
IL.• clause he could not vote in its favour.
In tlauae 2
Mi. HUBBARD proposed to insert after " rates," " or
vi rates ;in the nature of &web-rata ;" explaining that
Lis civet was to enable certain loans to be paid off.
TLe amandment was avow! to.
Mums 2 and 3 bar* bassi apeed to,
la damn 4,