The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1856-10-24 00:00:00

Mr. Bola was simply a Tory. (Hear, hear.) lam sure in the public prints, and I could find no comment whatever,
there was not a Liberal member of that committee who on my correspondence with him. Read the correspondenceif
ever expected that Mr. Lloyd would vote for any man but you please ; and say whether his silence, whether his non-reply '
a Tory; but Mr. Bold was something more than a Tory, to my last letter does not tonvict him of that with whch I
(Hear, hear.) There was a great principle involved in have charged him. (Hear, hear, and cheers ) Now, the next
the election of Mr. Bold. At that particular time—and question lam called upon to notice is this—if Mr Lloydet
I must carry your minds back to that particular period— acted thus treacherously towards me, why did I not
and you must imagine yourselves living at that day at once break up the committee ? Well,
-gentle-
surrounded by particular circumstances, in order to judge men,had
fairly confess I felt that the committee
fairly whether we were doing mere than our duty to the worked very harmoniously together, and that to visit
committee whom we represented on that occasion, and of the sins of Mr. Lloyd upon the head of the nextgentleman
which I was chairman, in calling on Mr. Lloyd not to who would have to retire from the council,
would
doing
support Mr. Bold. Understand me —I did not ask Mr. what the Tories like to do upon all occasions when you permitl
Lloyd to vote against him. Now, gentlemen, two them—visit their own sins upon your heads. had no desire to
Months before Mr. Bold had been a candidate for the seat do that. I would not perpetrate such an injustice, and there-
at the dock committee, which he had vacated, I believe ; fore I allowed the flatter to stand over Leith the man himself
on the reconstruction Of that committee, he again came again, in order to visit his own sins upon his own head.
became a candidate for a seat on the committee, and was (Loud cheers) 1 have been charged with unfair , dealing.
rejected by the ratepayers to the dock estate. (Hear, Now, I put my case before yod, I am standing at your bar,
hear.) Mr. Bold, during his seat there, showed his and I will be perfectly satisfied With yod decision. The 25th
political revenge— his political venom, by putting on the of August is the last day upon which any objections to persona
books of the committee a motion to alter the name of upon the burgess roll can be taken. I put myself above
the Bramlcy-Moore Dock, because, forsooth. Mr. Bramley suspicion, as I thought. I communicated some deers before
Moore had chosen to come before the constituency of that my determination to Mr. Jones Gleave—who you will
Liverpool as a candidate to represent this borough in admit, lam sure, is on Mr. Lloyd's side—as the chairman of
parliament withsut first asking Mr. Thomas Bold's con- the one political section of the united committee, and to my
sent. (Cheers and laughter.) Mr. Tom Bold made a rod friend Mr. Haigh, acknowledging him as the chairman of the
for Mr. Bramley-Moore, but it was found in the hands other section, the liberal section of the committee. I corn-
of somebody else, and Mr. Bold himself felt the smart- municated to these gentlemen my determination to resign my
ings of it. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Bold's friends constituted seat, and that if [they choose to make any objection to any
the majority of the council. There was a vacancy to the burgess oh the roll on either side, they might have an oppor-
aldermanic chair, and he was elected to it, and from that tunity of doing so. Did this look as if I wished to take the
he was sent down to the dock committee, in defiance of slightest advantage of either side? (No, no.) But I
the desire of the dock ratepayers. (Hear, hear.) Now, submit to you, that it did look as if I were resolved to
gentlemen, as ratepayers of the borough—as voters carry out what I believed to be a great principle, and that
for members of the Town-Council—that is a I would not be cajoled, even by the slippery iMr. :John
course of proceedings which it is our special duty to Buck Lloyd. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) Well, gentle-
repudiate and to prevent the repetition of so far as in our men, I must now introduce to you a conversation which
power lies ; for I know of no party who would sooner occurred between Mr. Lloyd and myself, probably three
bring that fact before a committee of the House of Corn- weeks before theist of November, in which he was elected.
mons, in order to diminish the power of the council over It was early in October. Mr. Lloyd called upon me and
the management of the dock estate, than the very party said, "I understand you are going to oppose me on the
who now exercises a poWer there. (Cheers.) Now, I Ist of next November." I said, "You understand what is
want you to see that this 'question is not, as it was told not true. I have no intention of doing anything of the
you the other night, a simple question between Mr. John sort. You have been chairman of the St. George's Hall
Buck Lloyd and Mr. James Jeffery. I want you to Committee ; and it seems that if you are sent back again
understand that. (Hear, hear.) It was a question between to the council, your friends are going to put you into the
one of the representatives of Lime-street Ward and the civic chair, and are going to open St. Georges :Hall next
chairman of the committee under whose auspices he was year in honour of your mayoralty. They are going to
returned to the council. It became, therefore, a public invite her Majesty—honours may await you. 1 should
not a private one. Now, gentlemen, Mr. Lloyd told you deem it a most ungracious thing on my part to oppose you
in his speech the other night that Mr. Bold's election took on such an occasion, and under these circumstances."
place in October,—that his own election took place on the Now, again I ask you, am I open to the charge of unfair
first of November, and that he was elected under the dealing
shai with Mr. John Buck Lloyd? (No, no, and cheers.)
iety'itliyour permission, make a remark or two
auspices of that united committee over which I was pre- I
upon as neewec, delivered at the meeting the other night from
siding, and that there was plenty of time for me to resign
ttlis (platform by the chairman of the meeting. I have
my chairmanship, but that I did not do so. Now, you
had the pleasure of his acquaintance and friendship so
will understand my opponent is a lawyer. But I profess
far. I believe mim to be a highly upright and honourable
to have some little common sense, and I have no hesi- man. I believe him to be a man of stern principle ; but
tation in putting my common sence against his law. he feels himself in an awkward position. He manifestly
(Laughter.) [Here the noise at the end of the room was does not feel his seat easy, and lam not surprised at it.
renewed, but the party creating the disturbance, and who (Hear, hear.) He was either wanting in perception—
it was said, had been sent for the purpose, was, which'is:not usual with him—his perception, probably,
after some time, put out.— Mr. Jeffery continued— was dimthed, or he was too confiding after he had been
Now, I hope we have got rid of that man who came here pro- elected to the chairmanship of the committee. He charges
fessedly to disturb the meeting, (Hear, hear.) Mr. Lloyd me with having broken faith with him. He states that
says—" It was in October, 1853, I met Mr. Jeffery, at the on a given day I called upon him, and after some con-
time Mr, Bold was brought forward as alderman, and was versation, he asked me did I mean to come forward
elected. On the first of November following, the very day on myself, and that I said I had no such intention. Gentle-
which I was returned without opposition by the kindness of men, I tell:you all the matter frankly, and I spoke to him,
your joint committee, over which Mr. Jeffery presided, I re- as I speak to you to-night, the truth. (Hear, hear, and
ceived the first of the letters." Now, gentlememen, if I loud cheers.) I had no intention whatever of coming
understand English at all, that means that between Mr. Bold's forward, nor was I aware that any Liberal members of
the united of
committee had any intentio ie.
election and Mr. Jeffery's election, I had time to resign my
Mr. Reay went to the committee meeting whicnviting h had bemen
chairmanship. (Hear, hear.) Is that what you understand called for
el the
t purposeoefaelec electing
by it ? (Cries of " yes.") I take your common sense, gentle. They g a successor
thatseat toAsmyssoeolfn.
men. Now, that election of Mr. Bold took place upon the ,as Mr. Reay had takenYo
his seat, they proceeded
last day of October, and on the first day of November, which at once to nominate their candidate, and :for that
was the next day, Mr. Lloyd was elected. Now, gentlemen, I purpose, they proceeded to pass a vote of confidence in
saw in the NORTHERN DAILY TIMES of that morning, on my Mr. Lloyd. It would appear that there were 40 gentle-
breakfast table, the division in the council. I confess to you men present, of whom 34 were Tories, and 6 Liberals.
I saw that record both with surprise and with sorrow. (Hear, That we called a meeting of "the united committee for the
hear.) I could even not believe it to be true. I, however, , purpose of selecting a candidate 1 It was proposed by erne
did not record my vote for Mr. Lloyd on that occasion, although
: ihe
followingnseleFeiVahrat
evening,
enimneeg titrligatshgeug biziar.jofonyeg taerli)
it has been the custom for myself and a few others, to record r should be invited to attend, that I should be requested to
our votes simply for the purpose of carrying out the techni-
,' make my complaint known to the committee, in the pre-
calities of the law. As soon as I reached my counting- sence of Mr. Lloyd, and that they should sit in judgment
house, I wrote Mr. Lloyd this note. [Mr. Jeffery then read • upon both of us. I had given my authority to more than
the first of his letters to Mr. Lloyd, which have been already , one gentleman to say that I was willing to respond to such
published, and the reply of Mr. Lloyd.] Immediately an invitation. But I believe lam right in saying, that
on receiving that reply I determined again to write to Mr. every Tory there, except the one who proposed the reso-
Lloyd, but before I had an opportunity of doing so, I received lotion, voted against it. Four of my friends withdrew
an invitation from him to dine with him and the committee, from the committee, feeling that they
oth wereket beiittligetThede
I having been chairman previously before the 9th of Nevem tboeoelns kfe—htfeelitnogtthhaatt
day
was n longer
~, to the honour ofp
y,bw sidelsd.
they
ber. In reply to that invitation I wrote the following. [Here Before up
withdrew, one of them attempted to remon-
Mr. Jeffery read his second letter.] Now, I ask you, gen_ strate, 1 believe, against that state of things, when
tlemen, whether that letter does not directly charge Mr. Lloyd another:nef the committee said, " Come, shut up, cut it
with a breach of faith ? (Hear, hear.) Now, I will take no short, we are all of one mind here." (Oil, oh !) Now, I
credit to myself more than belongs to me—that note is much do think that my friend, Mr. Reay, ought to have seen
softer than the note which I intended to send myself, but as that that was not a tribunal before which to submit a
my friend who new occupies the chair, had called upon Mr. motion as to a suitable candidate to represent thef ward
Loyd with me, I thought it due to him that I should submit in the council. (Hear, hear.)t Ifosrubmintzaitthitawlloduelganle.ee
to him my note before I sent it to Mr. Lloyd. Mr. Haigh !oeehnisdohinion and
i si,phreesitieaedc
said— him, _
" Now, gentlemen, we
suggested that my note was too tert, too severe. I did not been doing
doenmegthelsbeuysiness for which you were called together ;
think so. Well, Mr. Haigh said, "just be kind enough to if you please we will issue fresh notes, and in:the fresh
put in so-and-so, and it will soften it down, it will be a little notes we will state that the meeting is called for the pure
bit more courtious to him, and does not detract at all from pose of selecting a candidate." It that course had been
your statement—it maintains every word you wish to say, but pursued, and our friends had not then attended, I for
(shrugging his shoulders) I think it would be a little bit one would have said—" It is your own fault, if you do not
better." (Laughter.) Well, gentlemen, the words which attend to your own business you deserve to suffer for it."
Mr. Haigh inserted were "as I view it." He said, (Hear, hear.) But instead of that, one of the four who
" you aro charging him, without these words, with retired from the meeting, in order to judge of the fairness
a direct falsehood." " Well," I said, "my good friend, I of calling the meeting, applied to Mr. Reay for the list of
mean to charge him with a direct falsehood." (Cheers.) names of those who had raedn invittged
list—that
attend. Mr.
he
ilad
" Well, but," he said, " you need not tell him quite so list got
Liberals to be invited,
sharply." (Laughter.) I said, "If it will please you to put sßeenatYontetldo hMinir Ajlre.a
and that Mr. Gleave had undertaken to get circulars printed
Cleave
in these two or three words, I will do it." I did put in and delivered. 'The gentleman in question applied to Mr.
these two or three words at the suggestion of my friend. I sent Gleave for the list of names to see whether the Liberals had
the note. I received no answer to it. But I received an neglected to be at their posts at the proper time. Mr. Gleave
invitation from the Mayor of Liverpool, I believe, to the first replied upon a written memorandum that Mr. Elliott
open dinner which was given at the Town Hall. Of course I had got the lists. The gentleman applied to Mr. Elliott
declined the invitation. I could not accept even the Mayor's immediately, and Mr. Elliott replied that Mr. Gleave had
invitation, when, in his individual capacity, he had forfeited got the list. The gentleman then felt that he was being
my good opinion of his veracity. (Cheers.) At that dinner, bandied about from pillar to post—that he was being made
to which I referred before, given by him, lie was as, ed a a shuttlecock of—and seeing the course of the professedly
question, in consequence of my absence, " united committee What is the matter committee, his first impression became somewhat
took counsel with some of his friends, and
between you and Mr. Jeffery ?" What was his answer ?
don't know !" He had got these two notes of mine in '' l
his of
fetyhe althLoiubgehrtist convinced. He
desirable that there should be a meeting
to consider whether they were being made
possession at the same time ! I have read the note fools of or not, and what ought to be done under the
to you which conveyed my objection to dine with him. I circumstances. A meeting was called in the Victoria
did not simply answer the invitation and decline it, but Hotel. What was our astonishment when we assembled
I gave him very distinctly, even as modified by my friend, to find that there poured in a lot of the other side! I was
my reasons for declining. He answers one of his elected to the chair. On taking my seat, I said I was
guests, and tell him —" I don't know." You have his own informed that the meeting was called by circular, and
words that this was his answer. (Hear, bear). He has pro- thatnvte tdhetrgatwlrweas
ugentlemenre h ipresent
not wish to t
oh had
Intrude, not
and
(Need the correspondence himself, I leave it to you to say I begged that those who had not received an invitation
whether the two statements are not as much opposed as the would withdraw that we might proceed to the business
two poles. (Hear, and cheers). But he must valorously, or, for which we had met. Well, gentlemen, they produced
as it would appear, somewhat convulsively, replies, when ho is a circular—a copy of ours—a forgery. (Loud cheers.)
told to call upon Mr. Jeffery, and it will be all right, " no, I They had got a circular printed as nearly like ours
never will call upon Mr. Jeffery for any such purpose." Well, as they could, but we were quite as sharp as they—
but does ho send anybody to Mr. Jeffery ? (Hear, and cheers). we detected them, and did what you will
Does he ask a friend to interpose to make it up ? lie does, commend us for doing—we asked them to be good enough
gentlemen. (Cheers). A mutual friend calls upon me at to find their way out. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Avery
the instance of the then mayor, Mr. Lloyd, and asks me to large number of them retired. I have since been informed
overlook the matter. I said, "my friend, I can do no such that there were one or two mean enough, contemptible
thing." '•Well, but ," he said, " you don't want the Mayor ewnaosugehiebgassaeirotuogeha,vtro remain inthemightmh at vo ()hie, eaern ws
ahi3l
of Liverpool to apologise to you ; do you ?" "No," I said, for a prejudicial purpeys'ea. way what
(Oh, oh.) I say, gentlemen,
" I don't want an apology from anybody—there has been a that whether a' matter be political or be social, I know no
breach of faith, and it is irreparable with me." (Cheers) difference whatever. I conceive that a man's honour is
After that I received another invitation from the Town Hall, at stake in the one case as much as in the other, and the
but whether the second invitation from the Town Hall came man who has one honour for one act, and another honour
to me, after that little episode which Mr. Lloyd has thought for another, is unworthy of the confidence of any class of
proper to introduce into the matter, or not lam not prepared pheaorlme.eet(inLoutlacthexes.?mitAed resolution was
committee proposedwsl'eesulc
ru
do say, for I kept no record of it. That little episode was our t
exist. It wg:as carried unanimously. Other longerresolutions
meeting in London. What it has to do with the question at followed, and subsequently a committee was constituted
issue it will be for you to judge ; but Mr. Lloyd appears to be
sadly wanting in a prop on which to support his defalcations, for the purpose of taking such steps as might be agreed
upon with reference to the coming first of November. My
and he lugs this in. He tells you that he was in London upon friend Mr. Haigh was elected chairman of the provisional
the town dues question ; but be tells you I was not there for committee, to which office he was fairly entitled, having
any such purpose. Ile distinctiy says that ; he does not far higher claims than I had to continue in it. His labours
content himself with saying,
" I don't know what Mr. Jeffrey in the good work number once, twice, if not thrice as many
did there ;" but he says I was not there for any such purpose. years as mine, and honour be to him for all the labours he
Ho says he met me accidentally in the lobby of the Hous of has bestowed upon the Lime-street ward, and the
Commons. He did so. But what did I do in the lobby of promotion of good government, and the promotion of civil
the House of Commons? I had recheck! a note from Mr. and religious liberty. (Loud e heere.) Mr. Reay is lithe
chairman
committee. lam exceedingly sorry
John ,Aiken, who was the indefatiguable and assidious secretary for it,
tbec of
au stehelowthoeur idr
ather have had him with us. He
on that oncasion, for the purpose of making the necessary charges me with having dealt unfairly towards him, and
arrangements for the public meeting to be held in St. George's rueuste nu
pt position
puse m r.
Hall, upon the subject of -the town dues. I received a note isfaylshathdantohtepwroollidsendothhimave
from Mr. Aiken—an official note. I had received several Lloyd. Gentlemen, was I, because I gave him an answer
other notes from various friends on the subject. I went down in private conversation, that I had no intention of becom-
thbaetenlinwohuisldp
to the House of Commons in consequence of the ing a candidate, was Ito be bound by that answer for
to present
information which these letters conveyed to me, to ever, and never after to respond to any invitation from
my brother electors, if they should think fit
cheers.) Whenever
see my friends from Liverpool, and obtain all the
information which I sought ; I met with Mr. Lloyd in the
smueeirsaith.one ? (Hear, hear, and
lobby of the House of Commons. I felt that we were there was perfectly M. When Mr.
ircu msitraenee et
o might
o arise,
h,it
II submit
ieasti . to
.... you that
together upon a public occasion to promote the public good ; Reay asked me that ques;Tori, I mightl have very fairly
and I sank my private feelings to discharge what I felt to be answered him by saying, " Well, I think Wind better wait
a citizen's duty. (Cheers.) I speak in the presence of men until lam invited." (Laughter.) Instead of my saying I
who have been before the public for many years. lam satis- would be a candidate for the representation of Lime-
fied that they will agree with me, that no man is fit to take street Ward, I think it would be more decorous to wait
upon himself any public duty whatever, unless ho can act and see whether I was wanted. I submit that decorous
with the greatest political opponent he ma have when lie is right feeling, and even good citizenship should induce a man to
called to act together with him for the puyblic good, and for wait and see whether his neighbours and brother electors
(Hear hear and
the promotion of a public duty.cheers.) thought he was a competent man to go into the town council
I conversed with Mr. Lloyd on the subject, of tbe Town Dues, to do their duty, and if they found that he was such a man,
and of my visit to the House of Commons. I showed hire