The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1856-04-03 00:00:00

the poor man in this world,'and is calculated to do so in the
next. In what' is its origin ? In drink:. (Hear, hesti.)
Why, sir, it tv-is were a purely irreligious act, so
speculative I am upon the subject, ,that . I would
give it a fair chance, so desperate, so demoralising
so degraded do I consider the present position of a
vast proportion of the parer classes- of society to be 'at the
present _time. (Hear, • hear:) Why, •sir,- lam backed up
in that' opinion by a reverend divine iu ' this town, who has
never, asso3iated himself with party in politics or in reliiion.
I have heard him state, that even, if what I propose, were
as destructive to all that is right and good, as we are told
by some would be the result, he-would consider himself
justified in giving the measure a fair
,trial. (Oh, oh, and
a laugh.) I hear a laugh, sir, fro:n a gentleman who does
not favour us with his opinion, and, therefore, he will
excuse me. if I do not attach any importance to it. A
laugh can come from any; one; and should, ttherefore, be
beneath the notice of one who feels a warm interest in
what he is contending for. Now, sir, what is proposed by
this measure is, that the class of society to which I have
adverted, should be withdrawn from the public house, and
in duced to drink sa much less beer and spirits, by opening
St. George's Hall to them where they could have sacred
music. If ono in every hundred were reclaimed by that
enjo)ment—if you like to u,.e the term—if one out of every
hundred were reclaimed by that visit to St.
George's Hall, in the course of tho twelve
months, I contend that the act would be a religious one.
We know that there is joy in Heaven over one sinner that

repents ; and if the mind could be attracted, even for the
time, from objects debasing and demoralising in themsclvev,
I say we should have done a good work, and should have
offered at least an opportunity to those who have at present
no other mode of passing the Sabbath, beyond church hours,
except in the pablichouse, or else at home where comfort

may be so rare, ak,d where, very probably, there is little to
iuduce him to remain. This is a subject wllich we all know
has been fully discussed in St. George's Hall, some time ago.

Gentlemen of al shades of politics were there, I admit,
and many for whom personally I entertain the very highest
esteem. But there were others who were what may In

termed the great speakers of the meeting, men who, I
contend, above all individuals in. the communi y, have
been putty; in their twofold capacity,' of a desecration of
the Sabbath. (Hear, hear.) I say 'that thee° men have
been in the practice , not periodically but systematically. of
declaiming against, of reprobating in terms, of which I think
they ought to be ashamed, of holding up to scorn the religion
which nearly one-third of the community believes to be
sound and good, and in which they entertain a conscientious
beli-f. I say that they have held up the religion of their
fellow men to public scorn and indignation, and this has
been their work of the Sabbath. Am I then to receive a
reproof from those who think the divine command to love
our neighbour as ourselves, to do unto others as we would
be done by, that all this is of no moment, and no value ;
and that because a man differs with me in religion, I am to
hold his faith up to public scorn? Are these the parties
who step forward and tell me that I am an irreligious man,
because I am in favour of the prayer of this memorial ?
Unless, sir, I can be instructed by some higher authority—
by some of those whose work correspond, in some degree
with their professions, I decline to receive their evidence,
or to attach that value which properly ought to belong to it.
(Hear, hear.) Mr. Clint, a gentleman for whom I entertain
vary.great regard, appears, if I understood him rightly, to
be in favour of closing the public-houses altogether
on the Sundays. This would merely extinguish the
evil for a moment. The love of drink would still be there,
and only wanted an opportunity to gratify itself. Another
member of the council -found fault with the magistratea for
increasing the number. of licensed public houses. That .
point 'has been well dwelt upon by a preceding speaker, and
well answered. I contend, sir, that it men want to get
drunk they will get drunk. At present there are public-
houses enough in Dale-street alone to make every man in
the community drunk every day in his life. (Laughter.)
When you come to deal with spirituous liquors, the opera-
tion of get ing tipsy is a very short one indeed. (Laughter,)
I do not say this in favour of the system adopted by the
magistrates. The secret of the remedy tics, in my opinion,
in throwing the trade open, and making those who take
out license pay a large tax for the privilege, so that they
should be very careful how they offend. But they have not
minds to grapple with the subject. Even on the bench of
magistrates they cannot see beyond their noses, nine-tenths
of them. (Laughter.) Allusion was made to the people of
France, and a very smiling gentleman sitting near the fire
(Mr. Tyrer), said, in that spirit of liberality which belongs
to his particular party, that their sobriety was owing to the
different kind of wine they drank there. (Laughter.) Now,
we must go a little farther. If a nation is sober we must
suppose that i.: has some particular principle, feels some sort
of interest in refraining from intoxicating drinks, for I can
tell Mr. Tyrer that the French people, if they were disposed
to get drunk, could obtain brandy, a epiiit very effectual in
pi °clueing intoxication, as those who have dealt
in it can say. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) But with what
sort of justice, with what sort of conscience, do you call
upon the public houses to close for the day, when you and
I can go down into our wine cellar, and there remain
during divine service, if we chose, subject is no penalty ?
Would you have one law for the rich and another for the
poor ? Now, sir, I am perfectly satisfied that if you could
close the puleic.houses altogether on the Sunday, you would
still leave the love of drink'the same. It would merely be
repressing the public houses, and not preventing drunken-
ness, (Ilea-r, hear.) The circumstance which occurred on
Good Friday shows, that if you can find any other place of
amusement for the working classes rather than the public
house, they will avail themselves of it. (Hear, hear.) On
that day, the number of persons taken up and committed
for being durunk and disorderly, was only sixty or seventy,
while those committed on the Sunday, and brought before
the magistrates on the Monday morning, generally number
Ifo. (Hear, hear.) Here you have a fair proof of what
may be done by providing rational amusement for the
people, and I cannot see how any mischief oau arise from
the means now sought to accomplish that object. I would
ask those who oppose it, are you satisfied with things as they
are ? If you are satisfied, we must, of course, make our
bow, but if you aro honest and sincere in &shing a remedy
for the evils which you acknowledge to exist, where do you
propose to find it ? (Hear, hear.) We have been watching
you for forts years looking for it, and you have not yet
found it. You go to your church, and while you are at
your prayers others are drinking, perhaps,, in the opposite
building, and are making beasts. and brutes of themselves.
You know that this goes on, and you won't attempt to grapple
with it. Here •is the first attempt—here is the first
oppo.ttinity —for sending forth Lazarus on his mission, to
pour a drop of refreshing water on their tongues, in order
that they may be withdrawn from their abominable and
disgusting sins. While you allow this state of things to
continue, tell me not of your bishops and preachers, and so
forth. I disregard them all„until Lae° a man who has the
good of the people at heart. Only the other day, an anecdote
was recounted to me illustrative of the feeling among the
mechanics of Liverpool in regard to drunk:nness. It was
told me by a tradesman, an upholsterer of the highest
respectability, and he vouched for its correctness. He got
an order some time ago for a peculiar description of book-
case, some of the work'of • which was to be of a moat orna-
mental and elaborate character. This work he gave to a
particular hand, and received. a promise from. him that it
would be finished in six months. The time passed, but the
work was but half finished. He remonstrated with the man,
and attributed his fault to his love of,drink, whereupon said
the man, `.‘ And have you never got drunk ?" " No."
answered his master ; " I may have taken a little too much,
hut never, in the sense of the word, have I been so."
Well, then," 'replied the other,." All j can say is that you
have a great pleasure to come." (Laughter.) After a
few other observations, Mr. Gladstone concluded.

Mr. Charles Turner replied to the arguments of Mr.
Gladstone and the other speakers in favour of the memorial.
He said he should vote against its prayer, for he conscienti-
ously believed that it was against the law of God, and
equally as sincerely believed that it would be injurious to
mankind. (Hear, hear.) He believed that instead of
lessening the evils cf drunkenness, which Mr. Gladstone
and others seemed to Lave taken for granted, it would have
the opposite effect; for though a few might be drawn from
the public houses yet after the performance,
for such it might be termed, many, many persons would
be sure to flock into them ; and so the evil which was
s'ught to be mitigated would be increased. (Hear, hear.)
Ile believed that Protestants of all denominations, with the
exception of Unitarians, objected to public amusement ,on
the Sunday, andthat feeling was almost universal amongst
them. (lieu, hear.) They were of opinion that it was
against the law of God—(hear, hear)—and he believed
that in the instance in which it was now sought to be
established, it would be against the law of the ought
o
could not open a place of amusement on the Sunday, and
receive money f.r it ; but he would not dwell on that
argument for under any circumstances, and even were the
performance gratuitous, he should equally object to what
he could not but consider a . desecration of the Sabbath.
(Hear, hear.) He acknowledzed with regret that drunken-
ness was a prevailing vice among the lower orders of this
country, but there are other vices besides that of drunken-
ness—(Flear, hear )—and remembering that, he denied that
taken un the whole the lower orders of Enzland were more
immoral than those of other countries. (Hear, hear.) He
believed the contrary was the fact—(heir, hear,) —and that
despite all that had been said of Liverpool, if the character
of its population were considered, it would be found not to
be worse than other places. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Picton followed on the same side, and ridiculed the
idea that the " new gospel,", which the memorialists
advocated, would accomplish more than the Gospel of Christ,
which has been preached for 1800 years.

Mr. Holt supported the memorial, and argued that they
were as desirous as any men could be that the Sabbath
should be kept holy, but the difference between them was
as to the definition of that holiness. He thought that the
Sabbath was made for the Christian, and not the Christian
for the Sabbath, and contended that Scripture, and the
prreepts and practice of the Fathers and the universal
church were against tlai puritanical observance of it.
After a fow words from Mr. Banner, in support of the
amendment

rho amendment was put and carried by 35 to 13. The
voting was as follows : —For the motion : Councillors
Samuel M. Mellor, Daniel Crosthwaite, Thomas I. Ander-