The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-12-21 00:00:00

SELECT VESTRY.

The usual fortnightly meeting of this body was held yes-
terday, in the parish offices, Brownlow-hill, the Rev. Rector
CAMPBELL in the chair. The other members present were—
Messrs. Came, Gardner, Clarke, Johnson, Whitby, Kitchen,
J. Jones, Crawford, Rawle, Hughes, Denton, Mellor, Brad-
ley, Moss, Whitty, Luff, Hutchinson, Sumner, Savage, and
Troughton.

THE FINANCE COMMITTEE.

The proceedings of this committee contained a recom-
mendation to apply to some of the London insurance offices
to advance an additional sum of money towards the building
fund of the workhouse.

Mr. KITCHEN remarked that on the last occasion when
money had to be borrowed for the building of the workhouse,
he mentioned to the board the propriety of advertising rather
thantaking insurance office offers, and his impression was that
the money borrowed on that occasion would be borrowed at
a lower rate of interest if they had advertised.
Mr. DENTON said, in borrowing the money the lender was
'placed in a very singular position.. He had to receive the
money back by small yearly instalments, and very few indi-
viduals would advance money to such an amount, and so re-
ceive it back.

Mr. CARNE observed that very few individuals would
lend their money at the ordinary rate of interest, to receive
it back at a certain per tentage, say 10 per cent., or 5 per
cent., until it was paid off. On inquiry, he thought, this
would be found to be the case.

Mr. Moss thought that was not the question raised by
Mr. Kitchen. The question was whether the vestry
might not be supplied with money at a lower rate of inte-
rest. It was worth trying, and as theywould shortly require
a large sum, he considered it ought to be tried.
The proceedings were then confirmed.
WORKHOUSE COMMITTEE.

From the proceedings of this committee, it appeared that
there were 2,076 persons in the house. There were in hos-
pital 606, of which 64 were fever, and 27 itch cases. The
numbers in the vagrant sheds were 390 males, 242 females,
and 20 children; total, 662. The usual Christmas dinner
was ordered to be provided for the paupers on Christmas
day. The tender of the Liverpool Gas Company for supply-
ing gas-fittings to the governor's house, at a cost of £9 155.,
was accepted.
Mr. DENTON suggested that the usual dinner should be
given to the paupers on the Monday, and not on the
Sunday.
Mr. JOHNSON stated that this arrangement had been made
with the governor.
Mr. HUGHES asked what was the condition of the house
with regard to clothing. Were there any inmates in the
house not -clothed as they ought to be, who were debarred
from taking ordinary exercise in consequence of having no
clothes to wear ?

Mr. CARNE could only say that he was quite unprepared
to answer such a question ; and he did not know that, as
chairman of the committee, he could be considered answer,
able if such was the state of the workhouse. If those &en-
tlemen who visited the workhouse saw such a state of things
they should report it.
Mr. HUGHES'S reason for putting the question was this—
on last Sunday afternoon he took one of what his friend,
Mr. Charles Willmer, called " rambles" through the house;
made a casual visit, and on going into one of the sick wards,
No. 5, on questioning a boy who was in bed there, he elicited
from him that he had not been able to get out of bed for a
fortnight previously, in consequence of his having no
clothing. He stated that he had been removed from the
lower ward up to No. 5 • and on his (Mr. Hughes) asking
the nurse how it was, le said there were several cases of
parties similarly situated in the same ward as this youth,
and that from a want of clothing they could not get up. He
thought this was a matter which came directly within the
cognizance of the workhouse committee—(hear, hear)—and
if the watch committee allowed things of this kind to go
forward, they were scarcely performing their duty. (Hear.)
Mr. DENTON said if this had come before the workhouse
committee no doubt it would be inquired into. The fact
was this : there were new corners, and it was generally the
case some of them had to be cleansed, and most of them
had the itch when they came into the place.
Mr. HUGHES : This is. an old case of a boy labouring
under consumption.
Mr. CARNE thought Mr. Hughes, before bringing this
subject before the board, should havecommunicated it to the
workhouse committee and to the governor, who was the
party responsible.
Mr. Moss thought the visiters equally responsible.
Mr. HUGHES : There were no visiters last week.
Mr. Moss said it appeared that Mr. Hughes had found
this out in one of his erratic visits ; but on reference to the
visiters' books, he found no one had visited the house for the
last month. This only confirmed his opinion, and he said
so without the slightest disrespect to the workhouse com-
mittee. They were not strong enough to perform the duties
required from them. At several meetings recently, only a
few persons were present, and it was ridiculous for them to
contend with such a large mass of business. The business of
the finance committee wal passed over in a few minutes ;
but the workhouse committee embraced the whole executive
of the workhouse, and this was deputed to no more gentle-
men than attended the industrial schools once a fort-
night. (Hear, hear.) Instead of seven gentlemen attending,
there were scarcely ever more than three or four. He hoped
at the next Easter vestry there would be a modification of
this, for the present mode of carrying on business was in-
jurious to the establishment. He should like to ask had

anything been done with respect to the improvement of the
lunatic ward, about which they had had such noise five or
six weeks ago ?
Mr. CARNE : Nothing whatever has been done.
Mr. JOHNSON thought when an assertion was made against'
a committee the board should suspend its judgment until it
was ascertained whether the charge was true or false. Here
was a conversation between a child and Mr. Hughes, and
the latter did not go to the governor but came forward pub-
licly at the board to make a general assertion, accusing the
board of keeping parties in bed, without clothes, for 14 days,
He begged leave to move that it be an instruction from the
workhouse committee to ascertain the facts of this case and
to report it to the next meeting of the board. (Hear, hear.)
As one of the workhouse committee, ho made it a point of
attending constantly since his return to Liverpool. He had
frequently visited the house and asked the parties were they
comfortable, and he had never met with a case so glaring
as that named by Mr. Hughes : nor did he meet with any-
thing to show him that the workhouse committee were not
competent to perform the duties which devolved upon them.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUGHES seconded the motion, and observed that he
had elicited what he stated from the boy, who made no
complaint to him ; but he had not been able to take walk-
ing exercise for a fortnight before, and the reason was that
he had no clothes to put on. He (Mr. Hughes) also com-
plained of an aged woman named Todd, being appointed one
of the nurses in the lunatic ward.

Mr. DENTON explained that Mrs. Todd was appointed 1
superintendent of the nurses at the request of the medical
men, a situation to which she was fully competent.
Mr. HUGHES said the explanation was satisfactory.
Mr. BRADLEY objected to the committee approving of
plans for the elevation of a workhouse chapel, which plans
were not before the vestry, and objected to this part of the
proceedings being confirmed.
The proceedings were then 'confirmed with the exception
of that portion of them which related to the elevation of the
workhouse chapel.
Mr. WHITBY remarked that very few attended the work-
house committee, and there were many gentlemen on other
committees who found it inconvenient to attend. He thought
if there was a reconstruction of the committees it would be
very satisfactory.
Mr. CARNE said it •was his intention to close the proceed-
ings by moving that Mr. Whitby be added to the workhouse
committee. It was not pleasant for him, as chairman, to
have so much work, and so little counsel. It was exceed-
ingly difficult for him, who had not been long on the work-
house committee, to discharge the duty ; and he wished some
gentleman who had been on the building committee should
be added to it, with a view that their business should be
brought to a satisfactory conclusion.
The CHAIRMAN remarked, that however regular the at-
tendance of the members of the committee might be, he did
not think such evils as were complained of by Mr. Hughes,
would be at all corrected by attendance, because the com-
mittee sat in that room • they did not, as Mr. Hughes hu-
mourously said, " ramblo" through the house. He (the
chairman) thought it would be a good thing if they did so.
(Hear, hear.), The master's eye, as the proverb said, was
worth a great deal of labour; and if the workhouse com-
mittee would condescend to go through the house when they
come up here, and inspect everything with their own eyes,
perhaps it would not be so necessary for Mr. Hughes to take
those irregular rambles. (Hear, hear.) He thought it would
be as well if Mr. Hughes communicated the result of his
rambles to the workhouse committee, in the first instance,
but still he thought they might do a great deal of good ; for
it would be a great cruelty, if a number of boys were kept
in bed because they had not clothing ; it would in reality be
a great evil—(hear, hear)—and therefore he (the chairman)
thought it would be as well if the workhouse committee
walked through the house, to see how matters were going
on. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. CARNE said there was scarcely a week but the work-
house committee inspected some portion of the building.
They had done so almost every week for several weeks past.
The Rev. Rector CAMPBELL then vacated the chair, and
Mr. CARNE was called thereto.
A notice of motion was given to appoint Mr. Rawle, re-
cently elected, a member of the industrial school and medical
relief committees.

NEW MAGISTRATES.
Mr. JOHNSON remarked with regard to the magisterial
business of the workhouse it would be in the recollection of
the board, that some months ago her Majesty's government
appointed six additional magistrates to perform the magis-
terial business of the parish, as well as to assist the other
magistrates in their public duties. Owing to the unavoid-
able absence from town of some members of the committee
appointed for the purpose, they were not able to make the
necessary preliminary arrangements with the magistrates
which would enable them to perform their duties in that
building ; but immediately on the re-construction of the ma-
i, gisterial committee, they had, he was happy to say, made
rthose arrangements which would enable them, with satis-
r
faction to tho public, to carry out a part, at least, of the