The Express.
London, England, 1850-06-29 00:00:00

GREECE -ADJOURNED DEBATE.

ad as I wish to deal bolsi, with yen all, I will
statethe ease in • few words, aad to whieh statemeat, I feel,
so bon. gentleman will take exceptien. First, I will take
the ease of Mr. Finlay. Mr. Finlay sealed in Gress seas
20 years ago, liaise taken up has abode at Athens, user a
merawat or trader from his own country, but as a
dealt. of Greece. He purchased lead la the neighboarleles:
of Athas. I b .ve seen that lad. I saw this plats Just as
the foundations of the boas were rising above the surface
of Om earth ; and I likewise observed the state of the laad.
The load was purchased as • speculation In the neighbout-
heed d Athena. (Hear.) Mr. Finlay became interested in
the prosperity of Athena. The government ot Greta wss eon-
laseed at Nauplia ; but the desire of the people was that
the government should be restored to the classic soil of
Atheism (Hsu. hear.) All the landed proprietors, being
Isessested in making Athens the metropolis, signed a ro-
yalties entering tato an engagement with the common
entadeipality to furnish land as sites for public buildings at
• estate number of drachmas, equivalent to 3id. or 44. of
ear money, per square yard. (Hear, bear.) Now, I do
not intend to go through the correspondence relating to Mr
Finlay, but will cease to ma point. Mr. Finlay was nee of
tame who, in connexion with several others, dispeored of
lead to the Greek government. Amongst those who dls•
paid of lad to the government were eons foreigners, and
Ilya the aimed of two of these foreigners, Mr. Hill and the
America consul, the palao • was erected. 84 H. Leone, in
his first letter to L ird Aberdeen, spoke of these gentlemen
Ming sufferers with Mr. Finlay. Their land was taken fer
the erection of the palace, and Mr. Finlay's land was taken
few the purposes eta gardea. These are (sets that I believe
no penes will deny. Now, what I want to call attention to
is this. All the other proprietors of land, without exoeptioa,
=d to and accepted of the terms offered by the commis-
of the municipality appointed for that purpoes.
("No. no," from an hon. member.) Does the hon. gentle-
man the member for Southampton, wi•h blue book in hand—
(laughter)—meat to say that such is not stated and admitted ?
(No so.) Why, it is stated there in his blue book. Will
the lime gentleman admit that Mr. Hill and the American
eel, Omagh standing in the suns position with Mr.
Finlay, agreed to the terms and accepted their money.
(Hear, bear.) I know Mr. Hill, and I mast say it is an
amour to be acquainted with him, for, as was said by 84
H Lyons, there was no person to whom the rising genera-
tion of Greece was more indebted. (Hear, bear.) But
Mr. Picky refused the sum of money which the ether par
ties accepted ; • controversy followed, and the end was that
ships of war were rent into the Bay of &lama. Ni person
an deny that. (Hear, hear.) Now, as regards the claim
• Pacifico. To be sure be had his house outrageously
attack. d. He scat his bill to the governmen.l
and with that bill in the hand, of the government
ship of war were sent into the Patens. (" Hear, hear,"
from the opposition benches) Sir, I confess I blushed with
indignation at the inventory of M. Pacifico ; and am not
surprised at hoe. gentlemen deprecating all allusion to the
deals of that bill, as it the entire question was not ono o'
details. (Loud cries of " No, no.") I maintain it is.
es No, no.") I maintain that, with the exception of the
demand of apology for the insult to the Fatoma—(" to,
no")—the question is one of details. (Loud cries of '• No.
no," from the opposition benches.) That ay shows
me that you are determined to vote through blind
passion and party spirit. ("Hsu, hear," "Nu, no ;"
cheers and counter-cheers) Well, M. Pacifico sent
his bill to the government, and the chugs for a bed-
stead was set down at 150/.—(lambter, and " hear, hear")—
for the sheets of the bed 301.; or the pillow-cases 10/. ; and
for the coverlids 251. (" Hear, bear," and laughter.) Tois
inventory is doubly disgraceful to all concerned; beeline,
ant, you state it is not • question of nisi prius details ; and
ma, you say Pacofico brought all those valuables that he
alleges to have been destroyed to Athens, with • view to die
pea of them to the King. (Hear, hear.) Now, if we look
at the wearing apparelol Pacifico, we will find the same exa
geration to prevail—as, for instance, a gold each and appen-
dages, 501. Sir, when I read that noventery, my impression
was that putting down drachma for pounds would give
• nearer approach to the value of the property. I now come
to speak of thee:: lonian boats, for which 2351. were de-
seeded, and after that comes the cute of the tour lonises,
who were toumb screwed sod chap d through the public
streets to prison. Sir, the Home Secretary far Greece con
Croatia the statement of our c.nsul, and di ales the alleged
facts. (Hear, hear.) At the end of the correspondence—
which I must say is rather pausing to know who was in the
right or who was in toe wrong—you will find tbat
the noble lord (Lard Palmerston) had no chiEalte
fa deciding the setter, and recommending a demand of
20/. in each ease. (Hear, hear.) Now, air, I will come
seat to the case of the Femora, a ship of war lying off
Pans. A boat starts at nine o'clock at night; the niget
is dark, and the bat does not make for the regular land-
lag place, hat for the beech. The coxswain goes ashore,
and ea returning is taken, as also his crew, by the guard.
(Hear, bear.) Now, bear in mind that the Greeks could
not soak • word of English, nor the English a word of
Greek; and bearing that in mind, change the erwe from
Greece to Engbini--say tne port at Brighton or Hastinee.
(Haar, hoar.) A boat, in • dark night, arrives at that
which is not the landing place, the caw CI a shore, sal
are arrested by the preventive mat. Wen, they cannot
speak English, and the preventive men pat them down as
French smugglers because all foreigners are smugglers in
their mina. (Laughter.) Well, but on being taken to the
stairs and an interpreter brought, they are immediately
liberated and eent leach to their ship, with every mark of
respect—thaw, la epitome, Is • statement of all our griev-
ance,. (Ooposition cries of " Hear, beer.") I will admit
that we were wrong, or I will admit that the Greeks were
wrong ; bat was no; the question one that might be settled
by otter mesas than by toe intervention of vessels of war ?
(Hew, hear.) Now I must confess I take a very vulgar and
,reeeay view of this questun. But were there ao other
means of settling it than loos which we adopted ? (Hear,
hear, from the opposition) It is plain the only rasa why
.11 thee, q oestions were not settled betore, was owing to the
t spirit of cur representative in the government of Greece.
I speak not with a desire to dispense Sir E. Lyons;
because any other of our aubamvlors, on getting
mixed up to heal politics, as in the core of
Madrid, would have acted similarly. (Hear, hear.,
Bet that is no rasa why for six or nine months no letter
should be answered, and why thee petty grievances should
have gone on accumulation one on the back of another until
at lest von sent a filet of 15 vessels to settle the matter. Is
there not at the bottom of all this something that is wrong,
and might it not to be tease& d ? I confess that if all this is to
take place, instead of having an ambassador at Athens,
reetiving 5,0001. a year, I would simply have a consul a: th-
Poems, who should be paid for attending to the commerce
at the port, and I would say to him, " Never gn to Athens
at all ; if ever you go to Athens, and mix yourself up with
its political intrigues, you shall be removed, and somebody
else will be appointed in your place." I think that would
be better for this country than being placed in such a situa-
tion that it cannot notice theenost trivial matters, without
mixing them up with former disagreement, and consequent
animosities. The absurdity of having to employ fineen vet-
s.le of war to collect a debt of 6,0001. is evident. Almost
everybody whom I have spoken to on the subject has said,
" Depend upon it there is something elm behind that ; you
are not in the secret." I confess I waited for Ss spate of
the noble lord with the expectation of hearing that
there was Demobilise in the back ground of which we had not
heard. I an told by thee, who inner that they have got au
Waling of the matter that the noble lord by the demonstra-
tion of the fleet in Athens intended to menace Russia; that
Rotel was lemonsior troublesome, attached too much im-
p ortance to itself, and that it was time to make • demon-
stration. " Well, but," 1 said," how has the fleet answered
its purpose as a demonstration against Russia ? I find that
immediately the court of Russia hears of this demonstration
a remonstrance is sent by it to the government of this country
—s remonstrance, I must say, couched in language which I
never expected to read as addressed from the government
of that anti-barbarous country to the government
of this country. Let hon. members reed in the
127th page of the bluebook the language ad-
dressed by Count Nesselrode to Lad Pastrami, and see
what is the linguae used. I want to know what advantage
there hat bees. in the course adopted when one con-
sequence is a very hectoring epistle from Count Nesalrode,
to which there is such a very meek and Weblike reply ? One
of the reasons why I abhor this elitist aggressioa—for I cell
it an unjust aggression to mad these ships of war when other
means of obtaining redress were open—(bear, bear)—is that
we have been obliged to submit to such language as that
used by the Russian coon. You were then weak towards
Rands, may because you had committed an injustice, and
were eoaseious of it. Otherwise, so far from this country
aver using in • position in which she could be bullied by
Rorie, such Is the power which civilisation and the advance
of mechanical science give to her as compared with Ramis,
that if you behaved with dismay to amaWir states, Russia
would not dare even to look eisparegingly at you, ambles. to
take any hostile steps. I have asked, why was not We matter
settled in some other way than by tae sending of ship of wet
to Greece. I am now some to that part of the ease which, in
my judgment, places the conduct of the Foreignweles in a
position altogether inexcusable. There are certain hon.
gentlemen who last year did me the honour of voting for
the motion which I brought forward in f f interna-
tional arbitration. (" Hoar, bear," and laughter,) Now I
aldrem myself to those hon. gentlemen. I ask bon. gen-
tlemen opposite to take a survey of my friends, and to see
whether there is say conscioussess on their part that they
ought to vote fer—(The remainder of the an-
urea was lost amidst • bunt of Awn and
laughter.) The motion which 1 brought forward last year
wee that in elicit'. ia which disputes could not be settled
by amicable negotiation, recourse should, if possible' be had
to arbitration, My friends may say, " It is clear that the
noble lord could not refer this case to arbitration, otherwise
he would have done es." Now my charge against the noble
lord is this, that Is did report to arbitration alter he had mat
a force of fifteen ships of war to Athens. (Hear, hear.) No
sooner is this deasonslation known that an envoy arrives
from France with tenders of ma'am. Now I salt my
that I was inspired with feelings nearly akia to contempt for
diplomacy when I read the account of the interview which
tw k place between the noble lord and H. Drouyn de Lim.
I have read both the aooount tarnished to the French
National Amenably, and that published in our own blue
I book, and I must confess that I have felt the mast
sovereign contempt for diplomacy slate. H. Drays de
Lhuys comes over here in the most loyal spirit to offer to
settle this beggarly affair of a few thousand pounds la Greece.
Ile frankly told the noble lord, and the noble lord has re-
peated his declaration in • letter to Lord Normsaby, that it
woad even be useful to the French government to be allowed
to settle the matter ; that is to say, to sae s peons souses
in America, it would have given them political capital la
I:MIMS N aw, how did the noble lord receive M. Drays
de Lkuys ? Was it in the way in which any man of bal.
atm, any man tocastomed to the common affairs of life,
would have received bles ? Did be say, " We are very much
obliged to yea ; it is an affair of some thousands*, rands
which bas for • long time been kept open, sad we shall be
yen' much obliged to the. parameat of Femme if they will
marl it fog a." Weald Set that have beet a rational

Oa the order of the day for ramming the adjourneel de-
bate beim: read,
Mr. COCKBCRN eluded to the terms of nisi prissy sr-
pont. which Sir J. Graham had applied to the defence
.l
rd for the foreign seetstery, and retorted that all. gation
upon the eltuges brought by the other side, which he de-
scribed as the most pettifogeing he had ever listened to.
Mr. Gladstone, in particular, whom be ranked as Lord
botoley'e lawenent in the commons, ries Disraeli cashiered.
had availed himself of those forensic arts. The hon. and
learned member dissected minutely the address delivered by
that gentleman on the previous evening, showing how
summons were his vale-statements of fist end fallacies in
orrustest, and dwelling upon the ineempetence and on-
wanking's of the tribunals to which, as Mr Gladstone had as-
serted, the &aims of Messrs. Finlay and Pacifizo should
have been referred. Tao people of England, he added,
would justly appreciate the motives of the party which.
siker four years silence, arraigned the government Ivor
each a legations. The question consisted of two parts—the
interference of the government in the steles of Greece, and
their policy with rt Ferenc* to the rat of Europe. The object
of the first was to redress certain woe's admitted
to have been sustained by British subjects, who were
therefore entitled to redress from the Greek (ornament ;
and if that government did not afford redress, it WA/ the
bounden duy of the Smith government to int•rgue. Mr
Cockburn then proceeded to show that in the cases of
Mean. Firday and Pac:fico It WAS impossible to obtain
/edit*** tram the Greek authorities. In that of Mr. noisy
the tribunals were not open to him, NJ Mr. Gladstone sup-
posed; he mould so. ewe the "over ion, who. before alai alter
the parties of the eoestitutlos, was inespozeible. In the
came of 3,1 Pacifico, the imputations upon whoa, character
he treated as unt.ir attemp e to prejudice his claims, be had
sustained a wrong, apd was therefore entitl.d, though a Jew,
or even a forger, to redress. Is what civil tribunals could
he obtain compensation from a al* of brigands sad paupers ?
A criminal prosetewion had bees tried, and had failed. Of
the condition of the Greek CAMS and stuaripalities Mr.
Cockburn drew a very unfavourable pietas, confirming its
eseurasy by saunas from a pamphlet by Mr. Bedlie
Coehrses. Tortnres of the most atrocious kind, though
t• strirly_prohiblted by the eoustitwloe," were practised is '
Oa; British eubjects were liable to these kite:one; and
were they to watt until they obtained redress (tam mutt trl-
banal*? Ile then entered upon the other branch of the gars-
tic n—the general foreign policy of the gov. rument —repreech•
ID/ the opponents of that policy with their prolonged Militia,
while the transartions which they now impugned were taking
plow. He Medicated the cotoprehent lee terms tit the
resolution proposed by Mr. Roebuck, as being necessary to
negative if not the vete of the lords, which was limit, I in
the eave of WOK,, at all mote the oiscesmon that preceded
it, and had ranged over the whole qtr atif.n of forties policy.
Taunting the lolinwere of Sir J .Graham sad Mr. Gtidetohe
with their convenient silence and hypaeritical triindthip
during the last four Team, be gave them fora 11030, this pro-
verb: " I bide my time." In mat difficult and trj iug times
Lord Palmerston had interfered only when invited, or wbes
legitimate occasion called for interfereoce, steering a middle
course —recce:mewing monarchs to make timely and wise
concessions to their sahjiets, awl endeavouring to indite*
enc.ted ant irritated actions, g maded into rebellion, to listen
to the coucte:s of mo.tration. His honour was not the less
bees... success had not crowned his et D oeniinr
the a.hie lad's coarse of proceeding in the Spanish
ease, the Neapolitan ewes, and that of Austria and
Piedmont, he uttered an indignant invective against
those whom sympathies were awakened only in
favour of tyranny, despotism, and absolutism. The
intsrfv•iince of Lord Palmerspot wee endetnned be
coos. i: was upon the wrong side, though it was the side
chosen by Mr. Canning, whom mantle had fallen w.lland sat
ruefully epos the able 1 od. On the complicated pro-
blem how a successor could be provided. M.. Cockburn, by
following out weary hyp.itheida to s reduaio ad absurdum.
pronounced Its solution beyond the power of the party op-
posite. (The Loa. member, on resuming his seat, was an.
thealastically applauded from all tides, sal received the

personal congratulations of a number of members who came
for Mar purpose from mats on the ministerial benches.)
Mr. WALPOLE replied to Mr. Cockburn, adopting hie
distribution of the ques:ions under the heads of the interfor
mire of the government is the particular case of Greece, and
their general foreign policy. Lpsn ate first bead, be ob-
serve I that Mr. Cockburn had confiaed his argument to the
personal claim,. carefully omitting all allusion to the na-
tional claims in relation to the two Islands, whereas the
proceer'ing of the noble lard in this matter had violated the
express stipulations of a treaty and endangered the amity of
nations and the peace of then world. With respect to the per-
sonal claims, the principles of international law, which were
as well underateod at those of the common law of England,
forbade reprisals except on the positive refusal of a go-
vernment to afford redress, or an evasion of justice by or,
reasonable delay, or a dec;ron obviously partial and un-
just ; and applying these principles to the an of Mr. Finlay
gad M. Pacifico, he 'honed that they were not smith's the
exceptions. Passing, then, to the general system pursued
by the noble lord in his intercourse wish other nations, he
compared it, in its tendency and its results, with that of Lord
Aberdeen; the former maculated to sow jealousy and distrust
amongst nations, and to destroy their amicable intereeturse ;
the latter maistaining, by an equal and dignified policy, then
pests of the world.
Mr. MILNES considered that the simple statement of
Sects 'iris by Lord Palmerston should have settled many of
the punts in this comprehensive question. His policy, if
wise in prineple, should not be tested by its esteem at its
popularity. It was d.fileult for an English minister to avoid
a cartels amount of interference is the affairs of week
Mates ; but he believed it had been exercised discreetly
and prudently by the noble lord, the characteristic of
whose administration was its moderation. The reclaim-
time made on bebeif of British subjeirs in Greece would
have been promptly attended to by other stets.. If a dif.
fermi mode of dealing w.th such cams were to be adopted,
our countrymen would be sapmed to outrage throughout
the world.

Mr. Diskant and Mr. Corms,, nee together, but the
former gentleman having given place,
Mr. COBDEN proceeded to eddrese the hones. He said: I
hope I shall be exempted from the sweeping eltarge made
spinet hon. gentlemen who do not ietend I. Newport the
motion of the hes. member for Shellield—namely, that they
are in the interest of despotism all over the world. (Hear,
hear, from the oppolition broth's.) I have beard from
some Goo. friends about me—some of whom are not very
remerkoble for deenceratic sympathies, er the ex-
tension of constitutional liberty I have heard, I
soy, from some of them a great deal of intole-
rant. expressed against those honourable gentlemen
who refuse to take the same view as themselves and the go-
vernment take on the present occaeks. (Hear, hear.) Now,
I ask bon. gentlemen, do they thirst me an ally of Ramie?—
(laughter, and hew, hear)---or ef Austria or of France ?
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) I will salt them if I have not
shown as much sympathy for the crushed Hungarians and
Italians as they have ; and if my coemopolitan notion are
not as sensitive as theirs? (Hear, hear.) Then, if they
think me as liberal is that respect, surely they may allow me
and the gentlemen who think with Ise the freedom of taking
the view which our ce:.stienees direct on the present occa-
sion, end which has Dotting to do with constitutionalism at
lone, or despotism abroad. (Hear, hear.) The fir-t
question which presents itself here is the question
which lately came before the Haase of Lords—the
conduct • f her Majesty's government in the affairs of Orme.
(Hear, bear.) The hew. member for Sheffield, however,
has enlarged that piccolos by &merlin hie motion ever the
entire f reign porty 01 her idelesty's ministers. (Hear,
hear.) Now, first, with regard he Grime. The ques-
tion is, what W 44 the eondlnet of her Nejesty's govern-
ment as regards the attain of Oren*? I have not brought
my Nee beaks with MO; and I therefore will not read a
lbs. list as the., has bees a gstliketloa on the subjest,

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 29, 1850.

and bluing's-like coarse ? Bat, instead of that,
what was the course _ pursued by the noble lord ?
Wby he burgh with M. Dumps de Lhals over Um
different words, "good officer," "mediation." and arid.
trades... I declare that nsiher in this Itoglish nor the
French facial publisationa respecting this "Air ass I make
eat the distinction. But the noble lard insists apes it. He
will net take en arbitration ; it mast sot be a mediation—it
mast bo good caws. X. Draws de_Lhup, in the French
assonsat divan by himself to (laurel lAleft, describes him-
self as hiving entreated the noble lord to expand the powers
our, which he was inessuid—be besought the noble lord to
allow him to become an arbitrator la this matter. (11i ar,
kier.): No, no; it was decided upon. (Hear, hear.) All
w• would allow the French to do wus to exercise their good
otiose to muscling the Greeks to do what was required.
W.ll, Bum Oros pica to Athens crippled with these candi-
date. He ads to work with Mr.Wyse ; sad, as I think after
reeding the ao. oust. with the most submit desire to settle
the matter in dispute between the twe parties. In fact, his
cheroots, as a diplomatist was largely costa/Toed in the swam
of his mission, and he proceeded with an evident disposition
to surmount every possible obstacle. But whin be came
to the cue of U. Pacifico, and whoa he heard from all
the respestabla people in Athens with whom he was forced
into communication the real facts of that case; when, in

of freeient depends mere en pane and commons and 'do-
wny them spite eny_lebeure of govenimente, and that if
yea eirel piennellime pmeashatione which ate constantly
Winn Mann Mani, Inman= will take sere of
itself t giving
the
say further ereeltie. On word
now is fillinuee to the tone taken os this afse of the home
with respect to time who appw the motion. The hon.
member for Middlesex lints that those who differ from it
may expect to be visited by terrible eossequineese and mike
of appeals mit ',doom. We know what that mesas. Bet
for myself I s.O only lay that, attending all the monde, on
nmmitteee sad in the evening in the house, I do net sit
here for pliant., but because I wish In my owe humble way
to advisee those principles upon which I cave a strong con-
viedes, and it there be oce on which I have estranger con-
viction than another, or an for which I made the first
public exhibition of ain't is print—(a laugh)—it is that
which is invaved in opplisitin to this mots a. I have
maintained it in public foe the lest fifteen years, and it I
remain in this house one geese object with me will be to pro-
mote by every possible means its diffusion and program. I
mold like to MI the day when interauree between nations
may be assimilated to that between individuals, among
which latter the progress of civilisation is indicated by the
abolition of the prudes of wearing arms, and the dis-
continuance of dusliing, formerly so much adopted
among the higher classes. (Hear.) I pihould he glad to me
some change like that coming over the intercourse between
nations, and moral gradually superseding physical force.
We use that coercion ha, b. en abandoned sn schools, and
even in lunatic nylons, and that even the training of ant •
male is found to be better done by gentleness than by foree.
Why not adopt this principle between nations ? Would it
rot be better than sending 16 ship, of war to collect a debt
01 6,4001.2 Such are the principles which shall have my
support, and if the threat which has been made rather
vaguely should be carried out it will be mate satisfaction to
see to feel that I have upheld my principles, even at the
expense of some personal sacrifices. (Rear, mar.)

vulgar plum, he toned that it was an atrocious attempt at
swindling, he could not swallow that cue, and the matter
broke off. At the very time when these proceedings were
going on at Athens commenced the " good offices" between
the noble lord and M. Drouyn de Limy. In London. So
that there were two negotiatioas going on at a distance ot
two thousand miles, each having for its object the settlement
of this unimportant affair. The matter ended as might have
been expected. Tarouti the failure of a courier, or the
neglect to pat a letter in the letter-bag, tbs affair was
broken off; and after preliminary conditions had been
agreed upon in Londm, sums of war proceeded to Athens,
the government of Greece submitted, and you (adoressiog
the government) got your money. Wed, what followed ? The
French government, taking offence it the course which had
been pursued, withdraws is minister. And now Comes the
climax of my ease against the noble lord for not having IIC.
apted arbitration before- Actually after your ships of war
at Athens had extorted the money, and when a large part of
the automat lay in the bank, the noble lord has consented to
the most humiliating course ; for, I consider that communi-
cation of Lord Nornianby's to be humiliating ; an I I consi-
der that of M. Drouyn de Lhsys to be still more humiliating,
for it is what the French call Ida
_livid. Through the with-
draws! of the French ambassador you have been obliged to
put an end to all that you did with your fifteen ships of war.
(Expressions of dissent.) All that the vessels of war did you
have been compelled to nullify. (Hear, hear.) Yes, yea
have certainly agreed to substitute for it the convention of
London. (Interruption.) Why, have yen not agreed to
substitute the convention of London for those terms ? Nay,
more, have you not agreed to give up the money lodged in the
bank as a guorsotee for M. Peeifico's claim ? lieu, hear.)
What do you call that? When it is lodged in the
hark the French tell you that you must give it up, and
must accept the terms agreed upon by the con-
vention of London. But my complaint does root end there.
The system pursued by the noble lord with respect to
foreign 'Mars is one calculated to breed private quarrels.
Who. has arisen out of this matter ? First, you have sub-
mitted to a rebuke from Russia and to humiliation from
France. But the question is not settled now. (Hear, hear.)
Titers are three arbitrators appointed to settle whether M.
Pacifico', claim. in respect of Portugal are valid. So that
my friends will see that, alter employing all this force, the
government have been obliged to r.sort to arbitration to
settle this dispute, and that there are matters still resting
over which require the erhitr Aloe of three courts. (lieu,
hear.) Now, I cannot imagine a more complete triumph
for the principle welch I edeocated last year, and which
wee supported by SO members of this house, than is exhi`oted
by the details of these proceeding. (" Oh, oh," from
beeches oa the ministerial aid' of the house.) Why, thin
are hon. gentlemen behind me who are gemming.
(Laughter.) I am not surprised at their grow; they
must be growing at the %nought of their own ioocirois-
tency to-night. (Laughter) What are we called
upon to do in being aske t to vote for the hon. and leached
gent:emsu's motion ? Why, we are asked to vote that this
matter has Ma most fairly, justly sad delicately managed.
I do not at all think it is finished ; for, independently 8'
those three arbitrators upon M. Pacifico's claim', and inde-
pendently of the good offices, there are, mind you, certain
Ominous little I, gnats left. It appears from the last despatch
of General Lobito, to Lord Normanhy that the French
have promised to use their good offices t i prevent any future
quarrel b ltßOOft the Greeks and ourselves, and I should not
wonder if some dispute were to odes out of that. There is
I also an intimation !TOM RlUsii that she has some claims to
make for some vessels belonging to Itos-ta hav-
ing been stopped in one of the ports of Greece,
and Boron B; unnow has fairly given no ice that
be will have to demand reclamation. I should
not wonder if, before lung, wit were engaged in a dispute
with Russia with respect to these claims. Al this ha.
ariwn just b the Foreign-office would nut submit the
whole of this rout-or/log business to arbitration. (Hear,
hear.) In the first Just .nce, Fiance would then have beer,
proud to do what this country has at last rulonittril to
wider circumstan, es of humiliation. Well, now, lee us take
the result of the bueineet as for as it has gone. The whole
amount of the claims upon the Greek government was
33,0001. ; the whole amount received is 6,400/., so that
as the matter stands at mount it appears before the world
that having made a demand of 33,0001., you have up to this
moment only received 6.4001, and this will show to the
world how great was the extent of your demand in compa-
rison with its justice. (Hear.) Looking lathe claim of M.
Pacifico, and looking also at the opinion expressed by Baron
Gros with reel .rd to it, and a. the prneawiiitos at Athens,
declare must solemnly my firm belief that if the people of
Ragland really understood the merits of this iitteetiort, if
they had read, as I have done, the blue books—l have that
opinion of the 1411111.111 and justice of my countrymen, that I
to lien', that in spite of the galvanic effort to make this a
party question—(loud cries of "No, no ")—so disoured
would they be with the whole proceedings, that they would
raise a subscription to pay bock to the Greek g movement
the mosey whioh h o town taken from them. (Laughter.)
Well. now. besides being asked to express our approbation
with regard to the Greek affair, we are asked to identify our-
selves with the foreign policy pursued since the present go-
moment mine i ito office. Why, I say, I should be the
most inconsistent man on euth were 1 tomes any such vote.
(Hear, hear.) For what have I been doing? At a
public meeting in Manchester I denounced the pro-
ceediogs of the noble lord is Syria. Bash in this
house and oat of it I denounced the course pursued by him
in Portugal. I moved for the number of our vessels em-
ployed in l'ortugal. I protested in public, aye, and amidst
enthusiastic approving audiences, against our interference in
the affairs of Sicily. I am now calleal upon to express say
approbation of the proceedings o' the foreign-alio during
the existence of tee present administration. Why, I say.
sir, that if I did go I think my mouth ought in future to be
closed upon any question respecting economy or retrench.
meat or the possibility of reducing our establisliments—
(hear, hear)—because I am quite sure that if this sj etem is
to continue, it you are to send fifteen vessels of war to col-
lect a debt of 6,4001., not only can you not reduce your es-
tablishments, but your es'ablishments are not large enough.
(Hear, tear.) I claim for myself credit for as much sym-
pathy with foreign nations struggling for liberty up to the
point that we have attained as can be felt by anybody either
lie this house or out of it. It is not true, as the hon. and
learned gentleman (Mr. Roebuck) said, under a misappre-
hension, that at a public meeting which I attended I said I
was for war in favour of the Hungarians. I understood him
to represent me to have said, " I em for peace in everything
else, but I make on exception in favour of Hungary.'
Mr. ROEBUCK.—Perhape the boo. genieman will
allow me to tell him what I did say. (Hear, hear.) I said
that the hon. gentleman having made a speech in unison
with the feeling, of the meeting, made an apology for what
he was about to add respecting the war iu Hungary. He
said he had been peaceful in everythiug else, but be was
warlike then. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. COBDEN.—The hon. and learned gentleman has
misunderstood me. I have in public advocated inter-
ference by our government in the domestic affain of any
other country. I hold to the principle of non-intervention,
even in oases in which my feelings are most concerned.
(Cries of " the Russian Loan" from the opposition.) I
bold to that principle, humble individual as I am, and with.
out having upon me the responsibility of a minister. In all
my public conduct I defy any one to show an instance in
which I have violated that principle. When I saw that
principle violated by others, as in the case of the Russian
invasion of Hungary ; when I saw, at the same time, a large
and influential portion of the press of ibis country bounding
on a barbarous nation to invade a comparatively civilised
state, then, living in almost the only country in Rarope in
which there was a platform that could not be corrupted,
though a portion of its press might be, I stood forth as a
public man, and denounced the invasion of Hungary But at
the same time I stated that! sheald be as ready to denounce
the interference of our own government in Hungary as I then
was to denounce that of RM.. Yon will find what I said,
if you refer to the report of my speech. Bat it is a matter
of small inputting what my iudieidual opinions may be.
When you come to the question whether the government
ought to be the promandistof its own opioioas in foreign
countries, the issue is altogether changed. I maintain that
our government has no right to hold any isteroourse
with the government of say country ems the government
defacto; and whether that government de facto be repub-
lican, despotic, or monarchical, I hold that we have no right
to interfere ter the purpose of nuking them take uu opposite
I MI firmly convinced that if we laid down non-
Mst tion as our invariable principle we should compel
Russia and Austria to follow our example. But It is
a mistake to suppose that the noble lord
has always appeared abroad as the champion of
liberalism. 1 am not going to fall Into the delusion
that this le a battle between liberalism on the ono side
and despotism on the other. I do not believe that the noble
lord is asy more democratic than hie oolleggues, or than
boo. gentlemen opposite ; but the feet is, that he is a man of
a very active turn of mind, who likes writing protocols, and
the smaller and more insignificant is the subject the more
pleasure he takes in dismissing it. (A laugh ) I do not
find that the noble lord takes up any great liberal question&
Did the noble Iced ever protest against the invasion of
Haulm ! True, he made a smolt against Austria, which
power was feeble end contemptible at the time, but he did
not breathe a syllable against Russia. On the connney,
he spoke of that power la an apologetic manner. Did
the noble lord go to Italy tothrzesnototnebbtioilielbrosreodesiohms:tiinthuditsseic:sidl.f
Ptrailralasuithaenelie didOe stet send Lord Eyed'
stitatioaal change., but merely to advise governments to
adopt some administrative reforms. That was not the want
of the Italian people. They wanted security and good go-
verment, which was only to be obtained by constitutional
forms and a reprecentative system. I do not fall then into
the delusion that the question is between liberalism and
&grim upon the coatitteat. I believe that the Preto'

Sir R. PEEL repudiated with acorn sty connexion with
unspiraton, and denied the existences of any conspiracy
against the government. Various motives had been sug-
gested by speakers opposite (or the vote he was expected to
give ; but they left eat of their combinations the possibly
that his decision could be honest and based upon
no calculations of eflloe. He then went on to say: I do
not forget that I have attempted to give her Majesty's fp -
Tenement • cordial and constant support, in utter oblivion
of the circumstances in which they succeeded to
power. (Hear, hear.) I have felt it my duty to
give them an unostentatious, but, because it was
snostentaiiown • not less effective support. I
have not the honour or advantage of their personal friendship,
I never had any political connection with them. I have
had no communication with them for four years, which
es•gbt not have been had by the most independent member
of their own party. I have given them my support because
I most cordially approved of their policy in domestic
matter. (Cheers.) I think their policy in thou matters
has been a liberal and conscientious policy. I agree
with them, and I wish to r. peat it now empha-
Coolly, that with respect to those principles of com-
'Racial policy, so far from bring any hue com-
promise between myself eat hon. mena`ten who sit near
me, and whose confidence I have had the misfortune to for-
teit—l am bound to say that every day that passes convinces
me more and more that on the cordial adoption of, and un-
equivocal adherence to, those principles of commercial policy
the peace and true intereata of this country mainly I
depend. (Herr, hear.) I coLcur with them in gene-
ral as to their Irish policy, nor have I tot gotten the declare-'
ton I made with respect to Ireland on toe day I quitted
°®:e. I retain the opinion I then expressed, that your true
policy towards Ireland is to maintain civil equality as to
priviteges, and not to permit re:isious opinions to constitute
soy ouqualitioation for the favour of the crown. (Hear
hear ) It is, then, bec ow I concur in their general print(
plea ot domestic policy and commercial legislation—l mean
the general outlines of their Irish policy, and out the particular
opinions of individual members of the cabinet as regards
lielond, that speaking generally I Lave Riven thou ineuutee
My serail support. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I laugh to scorn
the imputation that this motion has some connection with •
foreign conspoloy. (Hear, hear.) I believe of others what
I know of myself, that they would repudiate any intimation
or dictation (ruin any person tot immediattoy connected
with the interests of their own country. (Cheers. I entirely
disbelieve the tairtenes of any such conspiracy. And again,
with respect to combinations ot political opponents, of course
in the conduct of party there must be concert, there
snit be combination, 1 speak not of that concert or combs
notion with the 'lightest disrespect, but I would say this
for myself, u the hon. sad learned member demands an ex-
planation, that so far from my being a party to any
co. abi-
nation, I never knew anything of tue resolution of toe Lords
until 1 taw it in the papers on the following day. (Hear,
hear.) I knew as little of the coracction of it, and woe as
wholly ignorant of the intend th to propose it, as the noble
lard 'kunst whose policy it was directed. I think, then, 1
labour under no ialhoeace which can prevent me
from giving • fair and dispassionate cot saderation
to the proposal before the house. (Hear, hear.)
It is s id that alter four years of patient endurance—aft' r
four pears of silent neutrality, I and others come forward
now to condemn the conduct of the noble lord. I come for-
ward with no condemnation of the government ; but the
hon. and learned member demands from me to acquiesce in
a motion of positive and general approbation, and not only
po: love approbation, but in the assertion of a principle the
eansietreion of which is ten times mere important than the
saving or it) bag of any adiniuistration. (Hear.) I shall
not forget on this occasion that there hove Datil times
la which I supported the foreign polies- of government.
1 supported it with respect to Portugal, acd would riot
concur in a vote of censure with regard to the policy pur-
sued towards Spain ; but 1 took that opportunity of express-
ing my regret that the tone aqui:mei by the noble lord in
erudite ing the communications with Spain was cot calm-
fated to conciliate the goodwill of the people of that couotry.
(Heir, hear.) But the most important point of hie foreign
policy I c .I:war in. I agree with him in his recognition of
the Fri cell republic. (Loud cries of " Hear, bear.") I agree
with him as to the policy of recognising that goveromt at
which appeared to be most conformable to the will of the
people. I go further. I thick that the recognition ought
not to be a cold and reluctant acquiescence in an inevitable
necessity. I believe, with reference to the unstieution of
that government, that the true policy of this country is to
maintain friendly relations with that great power on the
other side of the Cnanoel, to cultivate • good understao ding,
and to show a disp eition to place confidence in the French
people. (Hear, hear.) But it is because I agreed with his
policy respecting the French government, because I admitted
the policy of cultivating a good understanding with that
power, that I now ask the noble lord to give me an account
of our French relations, and to tell me why it is that such
correspondence as that—(pointing to the blue book)—bas
taken place, and how it is that he has alienated the
feeling of Franca at a time when she showed • dis-
position to reciprocate a cordial and unlimited confidence?
The hon. gentleman proposes to us a resolution, the effect of
which is to imply approbation of the principles upon which
the foreign policy of the government had been regulated.
It declares thou principles to be the best calculated— but I
find the non gentleman has taken some latitude here, for he I
has omitted the word " best "—(hear, hear)—but it declares
them to have been such sa were calculated to maintain the
honour and dignity of this country. ((lear, hest.) Now,
sir, I very much dislike professions of political faith—l very
such dislike suburthing to certain articles, in order
to cover the passed in another house. But when I
am called on to subscribe to the principle, which regulate
the diplomacy of the government, is it too much to ask
the hoe. gentleman who proposes that resolution to me,
to define what those principles are ? (Hear, bear.) Are
the? non-ioterventional 1 (Hear, hoer.) Are they the
positive assertion of claims once brought forward against the
Greek government? Are they the enforcement of those
claims by tie power of this country ? Are these the prin-
ciples the hon. gentleman wishes us to subscribe to, or dose
he say subscribe to my articles and you will find what the
principles they refer to are by the results ? If so, that is a
vague definition of articles of political faith. (Hear,
hear.) The honourable gentleman has divided his po-
litical history into three parts—the first from 1789
to 1815, then he takes from 1816 to 1830. In
1830, he says, there dawned upon us • new era—the cow-
weucement of a happier period was the recognition of the
dynasty of Orleans on the throne ef France. In that you
we announced in the speech from the throne that the elder
branch of the house of Bourbon had coated to reign, and, in
pursuance of the course pursued by the government, seeing
that the new sovereign met with the general concurrence
of the French people, we gave to that new sovereign a cor-
dial recognition, and attemptai thereby to lay the founda-
tion of a good understanding between the two countries.
Well, does the period e a tond leek to 1830 on which I am to
collect the principles he desires us to mark with our appro-
bation ? (Hear) I apprehend not (Hear.) I apprehead
also that it would be no answer to thecensure of the House
of; Lords to pass a panegyric on the foreign policy of the
last 50 yens. I appreheud that, as far as the noble lord is
concerned, he means that I should affirm the policy of her
Majesty's present government, as distinguished from that of
their predeceseors.
Lord PALMERSTON was understood to say that that
was not necessary.
Sir R. PEEL—But then how would the passing of this
resolution answer the moue pseud by the House of Lords ?
(Hear, hear.) I thought it necessary to place that construc-
tion on the motion which the noble lord appears to plain upon
it, but It was the noble lord's (J. Russell's) owa declaration
that removed that Impression from my mind. It was the
noble lord who mid, on the first night on which reference
was made to the censure conveyed in the vote of the Reuse
of Lords—it was the noble lord who said that his noble friend
the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs would not be the
ministerof Austria—(lean, hearirj—would not be the minister
of Russia—(hear, hear)—would not be the minister of
Frazee, but would be the minister of England. (Herr, hear.)
What was the meaning of that declaration ? The noble lord
has, I am sure, too much prudence and discretion to point •
sarcasm against three of the puttee powers in Europe, for
he can hardly suppose that there is sash • fund of hoarded
goodwill and friendship that he can afford to be liberal with ex-
premien/ of that kind. (" Hsu," and • laugh. )My construction
of the passage, therefore, was, that he mama to eontrist the
soaduet of the noble ford the present Secretary for Foreign
Affairs with the undue of my noble friend Lord Aberdeen,
and that what he solicited of me by my vote of to-night was •
tacit reflection on that policy for which I myself was capon-
Bible. (Cheers.) Well, air, 1, who had been connected with
my noble friend during the whole period he held the office
of Foreign Secretary—l was connected with him at the
period when he announced that we had recognised the house
of Orleans, and that we were determined to maintain the
not friendly relations with Frame—l resslasd connected

with hla aai July, 1846, when, in surrendering power at
the fat of the saajiwity of the Reuse of Commons I ea-
succeed the Mrilainatien of the only differenos that rimained
with the Halted States by the adjustment of the affair of
the Oregon. (Cheers.) I do not look back on my
conneMen wick my noble friend with any other fool-
ing then that et sordial satiefaction—(hear, hear)--and I
believe there never rained a minister lees disposed to make
a ramifies either of the honour or the interests of this
Misery, or eel nesee eiaosrely desirous of maintaining not
only peace but generally friendly relations with every
country with which we may be in saway brought into con-
test. (Hear.) I never tuadeestood this home to disappeove
of the pelicy which he pursued. (Cheers.) I never under-
stood the house to convey information that in the attempt
to maintain peso. we ever showed a disposition to sacrifice
either the tumour or the interests of England. (Hear, hear.)
But I do recollect that the nealatenanee of pesos was often
jeopardised—that we had had to soothe the excited state of
the public mind—(sheen)—and I must say that it was
the good fortune of England, of France, sad of the
world, that at • critical period of our history
this country was not involved in war, on account of
the most stupid end frivolous cause of war that ever arose—
I mean the expulsion of Mr. Pritchard. (Hear, hear.) It
will be remembered that a great party in France took its
name from Mr. Pritchard, or at boat the name of
Pritchardites was a sign by which the large majority who
supported the government against the war cry of Francs at
that time was aistineniehed. And I will do justice to M.
Guisot, the then minister of France, by declaring my belief
that it was mainly owing te his courage, his ?resolution and
determination in resisting the war cry in Franco, that we
were enabled to avert the calamity of war, (Hear, hoar.)
Well, sir, we had difficulties to contend with in maintaining
the cause we pursued. We were charged by the
noble lord opposite with making the Ashbur-
ton treaty. lbe noble lord thought we were
much yielding to those great powers with which in con-
ducting the foreign affairs of this country we come in con-
tact—(huar, hear)—but the result was that the ROOM of
Commons generally did not share, in the opinion of the noble
lord, and the policy we pursued Of :maintaining peace with-
out the sacrifice of honour, was a policy that met the cordial
a'sprobatlon of parliament and the country. (Hear.) Now
the resolution of the hon. gentleman embraces two objects—
first the protection of the government, secondly a declaration
of public principle. He calls on me to affirm that I believe
the couro pursued by her Majesty's government in reference
to their foreign policy is one calculated to maintain the dig-
nity and honour of tee country. I wish, sir, I could make
that affirmation ; I assure you it would be more grateful to
my private feeling, more in consonance with my disposition,
to support the government if I could do so. But Ism 'peak-
ing of the particular affairs which led to the vote of the House
of Lords, the particular oonduet of the government in reference
to the Grecian affair I cannot consistently with my consci-
entious conviction declare that I think the course the go-
vernment have pursued in that case Is the best calculated to
maintain the honour and dignity of this country or to pro-
mote the leterests of peace. (Hear, hear.) I take, perhaps,
• peculiar view on this question. I am not a partisan of
Greece or of the Greek government. I am, on the contrary,
disgusted with their evasions and trickery. (Hear, hear.)
I have had experience of them, and I k-ow bow impossible
it wee to lecture from them either redress or satisfaction. I
have had occasion, or at least my noble friend with whom I
acted has had occasion, to express to them our great dissatis-
faction at the count, they pursued. The noble lord has
read a letter addressed by my noble friend to the mir.ister of
Greece, and the noble lord made much of that letter,
and compared it with his own ; but why were we authorised
to make that communication ? Because we had the misfor-
tune to stand in the position of a friend to Greece, of
a creditor who had received no money and could get no
faction ; we stood in the position of a creditor who was en-
titlA to an ansual payment with two other power., and is
conjunction with whom rem nstraeces were addressed in
vain, and when we saw the government of the country re-
moving from dile. every man of the highest character in
whom we had cettafideece, and appointing others in their
stead who were suhjs ct to grievous imputatior.s. I think se
creditor thus deprived of his nooeey and the prospect of ob
twining if, becoming by these measures more distant, was
justified in holding pretty strong language of warning arid
rem marina to those who were making appointments which
still more clouded the prospect of any satisfactory result.
(Hear.) The noble lord aced that letter with great emphasis,
and contrasted it with a letter which he had written to our
mini-ter at Athens,and the r.oble lord said oee the course you
pursued—you absolutely authorised a criumunication to; be
made directly to the sovereiod,but Leaore cautious and more
toeeilistory, addressed my letter to the minister of Bor-
land residing at Madrid, but at the rage time I expressly
told hint that it was no ost embarrassie,e to int. rfert in the
domestic affairs of other countries. " Bet her Majesty's go-
vernment are so sensible of tee inconvenience of interfering,
even by friendly advice, in the internal atisirs of independent
states, that I have to abstain from giving y-. 0 instructions
to make any representations whatever even to the Spanish
ministers on these matters." Aad then the noble lord said.
and this was received with general approbation, Now
contrast my coodiset with that of Lord Aberdeen,
who addressed his remonstrance direct to the sovereign,
whereas I would not arpecieeh the micietet even with the
language of remonstrance,"—(heat)—and then the noble
lord charged my right hon. friend (Sir J. Graham) w.th
suppressing the important passage that would have b roe
testimony to his great forbearance, and I woe somewhat in.
dined to blame my right hon. friend for suppressing that
passage, for it contained this remarkable direction, test the
representative of Eisgland, though he was to be careful of
expres•iog the sentiments of his government to the mi-
nister, need not cored al from those who might have it in
their power to remedy the evil, the fact that such senti-
ments were entertained. (Cheers and laughter.) Now,
it I sent • communication to another country,
and wished to avoid embarrassment, I would
rather make that communication to the minister
or the sovereign than tell my own minis.er to witl.hold it
from both, but not to scruple to eommuoieste the views of
, the Brinell government to those who were in direct opposi-
tion to that minister. (Cheer) Toe noble lord contimies
his deepetch in these words :
But thou& you mit .if course take care to express on no occasion
on them 'objects entiments different from these which t have thus
emplained
.to you, and although you mil m
anyf. nit to express
those sentiments in any manner or upon occasion ea se to be
t likely to create, incress,, or encoarege discontent —;cheers'—yet you
t turd Lot conceal from any of those persons who may have the power
of remedying the existing evils the feet that such opinions are enter-
' tamed by the British government.

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Se not mit me for positive epprorm6)--
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would paretic him to send by the mots vette'l* **;
ataas itln ve•
lar
il
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communication to Mr. Wyse from the noble
made by the Foreign Minister of Fee
demanding;matures riot make it
Ite
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to •
offence, we sr:denten' at once to accept ,•-• .
Sen." (Hear) Why, what an obvious•
••• • •
the effect, of this misunderstanding-fe ,
to the wounded honour of France, four.. • "
unjust suspicion. But why not at once ***,
convention ? You were asked to do i-. it
on you. You refused. You were ul ire;-•;•
(Hear, hear.) A communication we •:. '
Imbitte in the French Chamber., in oh.. •
which I insisted upon on the 20th et MI ay-. • ~ • •
the withdrawal of the representative •
the court of London-that in awe • - • •
' •
obtained, and France has accepted the er•
Normsnby." Well, that was a palatial eerie
Englishman to read. (" Hear, hear," and f r,• •r.
have been prevented by a frank '.Haar tn Fra• e .
France demanded in the first instance, a•;,1 ••• • •• a.
serioently conceded. I think you were ' •
ceccenien you subsegeently made. 1
..e.• 1••:
having made that cue:vision rather than it-erre-e
good understanding, but do cot ot •., a •
the course you hive taken is tr.. le st.
with the dignity and honour ce "•
prntectionist cheers ) I do • f.• e
ask the two noel, lords -weee„fe,
to Lord Aberdeen end hM torsi!:
mired this letter from Russia and r,te•ce • T,
had seen the French ambusader war. caw .• ;.1
because we w•'.uld not accede is tee t a•••:,-, v.
fluently acceded-I ask eon, if we h • r a -
the c. arse which we had talon R„ ••
with the dignity and honour of England. I .
you have remained upon your sets ue..: I*.
that proposal ? ('• Hear, hese' and she •
not willing to provoke any ceneur• e, .
Ido feel it utterly incoreistect with a r:.;•- i • •
vote a positive approbation-a dee'neati'e ••
yon have tele nis most corisisttnt with •ee - •
city of England, (Loud protectionist et rr.
I see your present position with respect t" .I.er -
Russia-can I tee the mighty goeshoes
unsettled in the north of Europe-can 1 art t..
vantage it would be that you should be 're :. ••-
lasing with all those powers-can I see to;•
that the ;viers* you have taken .; •
calculated for the maintenance of pence
Peace, nodoule, there is. Then is nod •••ir• •.• • •
war. But, if the bon. gentleman's its ...it
farce, it:must leave them amicable arrengements
I to must between great powers more deunoul •
(Hear, hear.) Why, what is our diptcmom r
' fur ? It is a witty eagles for maintaining p.--
remarkable instrument used by CiTlikafd Latl,l3l • •
pose of preventing war. Unless it he us-a art tr. •
-unless it be used to appeals the see,
of individual men, to check the &elites
mat of nations' reme.traente - unless it • • .
that parrot*, it Is an instrument not nee
°blowout. (•• Hear, hear," and cheers) f. •• • .
of diplomacy to fester every wound-to •• , -
mothingevery jealousy? Is it to place s nt. • . -
in Europe fur the purpose, not of pre
.•
adjusting q Isere's, but for the peril ;
angry correepondence w•th the Time ; •-a• • .•
supposed to be unpalatable, instead •.. a • . L.•
the representa•ime of other poem. I - • ,
expenditure on this costly instroine,- • . ~ •.• •
groat ergine, need by civilised nat:or s • .-; • -
serving peace, ia converted into a ca.. .
(Cheers.) I have no depoeitein•-1 ; --
feelings for the last tour years being e_ • •
little interest in entering into an, rya.• • .
that I will make no reference to the t• • ; -
introduced into that must able ar . -.. • . •
which made us proud of the :at: a •
it-(cheers)-chile oboe:sties wee • . •
and with ability worthy of h s ••
of conduct which he pursued. L••. 1 c••• r• . •
withdraw from the cossidcrati a of • .
assigned, as it appear' to me, c s. 7 •
voting for the hon. g; ntlensan's me:, ..••• ,a.: ••
tion. I Come to that which is te.: *e • ' •
important-the principles the hen. et. . ra.
faith of the g ivernment-the ihter.v. -• . • • -.
are small in comparison wirh the re.: . s • •
by the bon. gentleman. The h0n.:t.,..•. -. •
Southampton ( )Ir. Cockburn) teas -.•
reference to the past merely. N ; • .
(Cheers.) Is this a motion 'o isc:ire .• •-•
the government Ste right or weans :n 1; .i • v
stance, their conduct under great d !fir :..• -
respect of Greece, not deserving of ceroce. •
whoa ? No. But you ask me to ter.: Lt at : •
te certain v..gue and indefinite prince i.s. •a .•
which I can only collect from the se • ece .• '
entreat the consideration of the h... 5, - '"••
the consideration of the noble h r • • t;
of opinion which lam called upon to .le.
Semen says there shall be no mi-teee as
It is not the resolwi rm. It is • r... .-
intention of which is this-- We ate :•.) t... tee
all foreign countries with whom we : :!. • 2
power:, so far as it is physically c : r,r-s.. .1 : • 73
ployed to ceerce their rulers ; bus tl a- -.
• e• •: 'e
ictioence of this country end of ice g • •
o, - e
the world sba!l know that we ate tie t. 7 cur
find a large endeavour, en the part of ...
vindicate to themselves the right of • .• -
The intention of this motion is. t:.: ; .1
of Cummins shall 'dim, °pony, pmic.y, a, . .;
am'riguity, that we are (or self government. ‘) ••• ;
tay to the anti ;es of the world-I believe I •13. '
correctly the words and sentiments of the hon. gee' -
endeavourse
o
117 a%e. thist ooe
af.rsay:resolution,
etto.. yrwtol ntd bell= a rei nations
los thet iettolohf:otplof!ht
jet heoo thisnefaworld-you,
cale os of le r ;n:
ye:
f
his own enlightment, and confidence Ice hie ;ma . ;
to govern locuseit-to resist that tyraety %qua, a r
name of 'legitimacy,' has ever sought to' coat . se
him all those powers which we as El:4;bbiZer.
confider to be the very birthright that mum
his
tion shall he mods openly, pia:oa, col velars: em•
bct
Itheios,znrua.ini t
Challenged over and over again te •
,I• :Are It,
dare it. The principle for %Met 1 ?mead, are
is that, is the principle fur which every stream
acne, in this country tor the :as: tile
contended-namely, non-Mterferecce ;n the
other countries, without some c:eer And
necessity affeetiog your own mined,. e ;• es..
I contend, an' l
gtatpwhhtlrohaenemtceethti:ii:htelpwnaphriariro)ntilace.ciempwishplpnheel
ledeioihsfhle.ie:drarnewhiunwweWhdfastawdasiche:lconenoul
;...
t of arbitre•
ry .•
ovrrrm"
was melted by Lord Castlereagh at the emo•
te,'
when sovereigns attempted by force to cheat 1,•
gross of constitutional liberty-(cheasl-te)•v.r
is a matter of so grave importance a)„,t,
perm. • the other matters CoollCetta • "7;
affirm
ipoltneh,
awtthhita,h.
which we.
wlper.iec.net tpdroe the
by
the 19thlot November, 1792.
treaty of there woo a esso;teeto toe
.•.'
ch
u
neigbbouthri
utterlyteupnhion which
imenpwoo a 11 34
ti
tit:: it eft
re
April,t
0.11 a 'kd, maintainrt9w3ltha:tecei ite dr. c
rhileny o nubno ss• t
tk
paned e;lnita t"t
France
ye:isne: tru
arh
I.' I
ri
despotism, but I do sot admit it in Merur of Warr ~„.„.„‘",
country,t interferesame
with.d a
admit
reoh:
the declaration of Austria and F1%16,4111. 04 the in
France, was hostility to monarchical
made to France to resist the sovereign king. n
w: sere
enabled to remain at peace with France for a certitt
We declared our willingness to maintain 'ee.
hdreiogmh teusitsetiteritiliotinatrtifsar'Prof
its
standing a declaration of war by Austria sad •
but we did It under these circumstance.. .‘,
the 12th of May, 1792, the Frees, h minister inlay
Grenville that " France would reserve her libert,
satiation and her right of refereeing 11,ml( ; tba t r 'rye
ir
should dictate to h r, but tha• she ',Add gild 6
,7),,:n
to all the trowels from whom she received env
her pacific dispositions ; and the King wished it pr, 1,:os
to
that he would not permit his agents
at
pet
the morsel
foment or favour insurrections or to interfere wi W
policy of such tatty, believing that such inter&

27.
ar2N
'tey
m.

(Cheers.) Spain was divided into two parties, a constitu-
tional party and a despotic party, the a institutional party
took those enlarged views which enabled it to remedy the
evils Spain at that time was suffering. ant I understood the
noble lord to mean that the views of the British government
withheld from the minister, should be lreely commtusicated
to them. ("No," from Lord Palmerston) But I was
speaking of the government of Greece. Now, I admit you
bed just claims against that government. ( Hear, hear )
I admit that the birth or the religion of ?d. Paeitieo consti•
tut, d no reason why he should not have the same title to
indemnity from injury with the highest noble in
the land. (Hear, hear.) I admit, too, that the meanness
of his residence is not to be advanced as a reason tor with-
holding from him justice and redress for the injury d..ne
him. I concede to von, for the sake of argument, that you
are justified in the claims you have proposed. But I say
there wee an obvious mode of making them without offend-
ing France, or provoking the rebuke of Russia. (Haar,
hear.) I believe, without any compromise of your own
dignity, you might have got the whole IA the money you
demanded and at the lime time avoided the difficulty in
which you have bee .me involved with these two powers
(Hear, hear.) What was your position in regard to Russia
and France at the time when y; u determined en this appli-
cation of force ? With regard to Russia, you had asserted
the authority of England is remonstrate with Russia against
the attempted expulsion of the refugees from Turkey
(Rear, hear) She had acceded to your demands. (Meer,
hear.) And with regard to France, you had from her
nothing but assurances of the most cordial sympathy and
good feeling. (Hear, hear.) Never was there a period in
which it was more the interest of this country to conciliate
good feeling in France. France was weak ; she was
torn by intestine divisions. We could have made concessions
to her at that time without throwing any imputation on
their honour, and you might depend on it that any conces-
sions made to France in the hour of her weakness would
have been remembered with permanent gratitude is the day
of her strength. (Loud cheers.) What necessity was there
for provoking that feeling in France which we find expressed
in this correspondence ? Ido not ask you to abandon any
just claim, but I say why could you not, when it was so im-
portant that you should maintain • good understanding
with Russia and France in respect to the affairs
of N Athens Germany—why could you not say " we
have claims on Greece? you are coguaranteeing powers;
The !swot nations would justify us in proceeding summarily
for redress, but we will net send there lire or six sail of the
line and stop the commerce of the country until we have
invoked your good offices." (Hear.) Why could you not
have said, " There may be limits to delay—and should this
arbitration fail as it may, we will not abandon our claims.
Insult has been given which a2maads apology—that apology
we will have, but we will not enforce oar other claims with-
out an appeal to your good offices." (Hear, hear.) You
may, I know, quote the case of the United States, of France.
and et other powers which have demanded summarily re-
dress, but the true policy of England should be to set en
example of a different course of action so far as
you can do so without compromising your honour.
I admit that you had the right. It is possible
that you had the right, and I believe you had the autho-
rity to obtain your right by force; but if every country
was to enforce its rights by force, there would be no se- ,
mail for the peace et Europe for a single day. (Chests.)
I do not, then, deny the right; but I say every conside-
ration of policy under the peculiar circumstances in which
you stood towards Russia and France—ltussia having at
that time just tweeted to your demand in regard to the
expulsion of the refugees, and France having shown NM
disposition to confide in you, and to act cordially with you
—there was every motive for your exhausting every
effort to settle We through the means of their good
aloes before yen resorted to force, reserving to yourself the
power of resorting to tome should these good offices fail.
(Hear.) Why, you did not object to the employment of
them good offleee—you accepted them when they were
tendered by France? (Hear) Why not invite them—
why net have invited the good offices of Fromm to
assist you in the adjustment of your difficulty ? 1
believe had you done so you would have affected
that adjustment, and you would have gained the good
will of Russia and of France, while you would have avoided
giving offence to Greece ; but, above all, you would have
avoided those humiliating rebukes which have bola admi-
nistered to you by Russia and France, and which I cannot
read without deep pain—(hese, hear)—and having read
which I cannot vote for a resolution declaring that the course
you have pursued was calculated to maintain the honoar
and dignity of the country. (Rear.) Ido not blame you
fee the concession you have since made—l do not blame you

.1. hta

4.relt

1
a

gm law of nati,ne." That was the deals.
" '"•• gmer the revolutims of 1789. (Hoer.) This
11,• frivol . Frog g &Weed is 1792, end ma
.sstatics
tf, "' h,a But on the Ihilt of November, 111%
I"' 1, Mt " What is the how gen*.
ot. k differeat coots*.
fr.ra that we, the Hesse Gsmseestg
• re favosrshle the efforts ar
010 sheig WO •
mo ••
esJeavian to Isla himself hi the Nall
▪ • ,`roue that ',relay shah soder the sesemi
sat
• .. pas ear sought to nosh is kiss all those
.4. se fLoclienwa eeseidor to be the rip
,e ••
:tr.t satete mg given to as " What was the
t Namitioll of FtWie? It MOIIIO4 that the
„ ghee wito4 grant potashes to all who
• lawn. The bus. gentleman will &Mal
tteillittuat : the Frank shifted thole
• • •••t g• es to thee safaris; in the Goose of
• j West courts did the French take in
1:f• •:.•seio.: the indignities ezeilend by their
:•• • ' b • ns !anal c •,1111135 declared, in 1791,
. ••
▪• • won't arches while in soy manner with
cons ot other tuataras end that it would
ire own ruins sooner Ikea allow sag
Off: ere with it." (Cheat) They re'ne•
• - other railer to interseedlle with that intersel
,nr•
!hey thitt:ain say wish to intermeshes
.1.1 or other nait•oss. They withdrew the
iris •.. seam a she 111th of November ire;.stm
Nana they Lund that st excited indi
tow principle that Mr. Fox issesassi
• the poke of bronswick; it wee spas rho
▪ down bs Vaal that he draosamil re
taw s: the Doke of Besnewick. (Neer, lash)
".; then, to make to Use sedges
oil relinquish the principle of now*
re:amJ re is tsvose of the principle of NM
• t .11:e we /repaid to deelar• ia gavotte of that
• Mr :sin the name of legitimacy the tramp
b,..„r sought t crush is theta all those pewees I
t- • I.ll=ea essaider to be the very birthright
%sea to es Rear, hear, and mini...odd
o • most masse undertaking en the pan if
It yoo do claim that right, pme
irritative right to other powers
▪ . • ZilerallMat CJltsider what is the beefs sl
We are he.eg in the aeigkhourheed of s
• repuhlie tic T may be prosperous sad
a:. power—which mantras the dartriat.
L. :ococatatest wi h sell-government, that
sieuteat with :01f-government. If I eh*
~:r. does my hotioas of self- g misname fats
!.. :. i •tu. ran I des, the right of those natiose
r r 101111111 of mit, Mernmeat istg the egg..
them ? lialiellect our mani:old relations with
▪ ily ',ter, Tana of the globe. Recollect tar
. h ...h Amence. Rtaillect our monarchial
outset with republican America, Ammissa
.!_ ••., :want dithr from ours. Anagram so-
«.:•:....rnmest go to the **test that there ought
sod tar: all clews should have the
g • .0 • tete is the governs's= of the coustry. If
. of 'monarchical ffOY. rutin oa despotic
.. • • T./Mbar, Ito remonstrate &seise! the Gaited
.:r as taro the colonies of Grist Britain her
. :: •of whet constitutes telt goverment. (Rem)
mutat esotad toyosta Europe ? We govern
Are we to admit the right of other Aswan
. h. I 41104 Of 0111Igov•rament os than?
e•• a policy, to attempt to interfere with the
• of o her countries, or to hold the doctrine
ad by Mr. For by Loral Grenville, by
. sr I L to Ceetareagh—ot tton-litterve titian In
Are thee: principles be he limited to Europe.
• thou" because it is convenient to do OD /
r Dr. Bowing to real koala on political
Chn.a. ? (" near, hear," sod laughter.)
'..ov.nument then, end we have these a
~;.., rad in political eassemy. and shall we invite
L.r. Coins in the duties of selfigovernateat.
ad yriacipks ageism which I protest, sad to
n. piny to. welt, you are deporiag tram
• ',.:ike.p• .4 of England, and ievole*/ are is
a ht. la 1 rite no sad, sad you are girls, ao all
• —1 Ira edam by encooraging other coma* is
for sessitaes issued of nuking efforts them-
: .h eoastitstional freedom an which day
ol by their own ezertions, and by whisk
is. 1. For all Rase remora I give ay dissent,
t -.ter% to this metiers. I take the *mess
-^.se I have en all oaten, of net
:'.l:3lty by Saha. I have rated the
:ti•o• I *wee the resolution, the carrying of
ito Woo couclustoos imam • nt with the
oaf, eni which could tot b dried law
:1! - loss at dewier lathe best intestates( LOS
• s ar.l totatics•d &we.)
IC--ELL—Before I address myself to the nth
••• .• ec, 1 must take so:* of the insinuattase
• nt txr.. gentleman, the member for the
oNtn.d, that we were unwilli: g to enter on
c unfairly proposed to the hon member LT
• i-•, that he shonld bring forward a riesoln•ias
N w, sir, the position in which we were
•• Lit., difiloulty. I have not denied, nor
• is itions of the government as regarded
or nay with the resolution of the
I. -at spew these grounds, and as
71 the e& jeer by this nos.* could have
. . pled in eon relations. Bat it sp.
notsiLg that I have heard ties changed
.: when a motion of comae was brought
Ly a great party, oommahlieg a majority

l:.. .

..., ,
L; .~:

, 11.•

r•tf.C",
It@ 1
• : •

Lk :-

~, ~ ..

f..: .

h..c :rt'• ft

•. sad hseing at all tines considerable nuniben
• . it it wcald have been right actordiagtoallthe prin.
c. .‘ rf jariee and oper.neas that it should have been
-:`.lLn oaly 10 ills how when the Minister for
• :• Adsirs wu absent, bat also in that in which ►e was
;.. . 'Loud cheers.) I awl say that such a coarse

,t,tctJ Irma the hos. member for Buckingham.
c. • ou this occasion, because during the time be
ma the levier of his party, since the death

r bird George Bootjack, I have always found him a
opreent really to talc- issue on every great querfoo,
• not seeklog by se •sl.ri er subterfuge to ascii the deci•
.! this house, even although he might deem that the
t r:ty wean not support him. (Hear, hear.) Bat it
e appear to ma, from the great tenderness which the
.ca. sentleman the member for the University of Oi-
-1 7. to shown to the tour., which has hien pursued, that
Seta rather of Lis ordering. He seemed. by throw•

•r. •field of ►it prometion over the hon. member for

: . e.. in claim the parentage of this emus. I do not
L.:. tta a fair course ; and U we are to Lave the right
tz itt'..k man the member ter the University of Oxford to
roc.-:: the d.bites ore the pert of that great party, I am
afraid we must sot aspect from him the same fairness -
I.' tee •. tad etteert)-sal was exhibited by the hon. member
f., L: it. .ang the tine he wee their leader. I thick the
tie-' • '. 'tideless could Lordly expect that I, or any of
e• t• ace... se.uld note a vote of censure or of omfidence
w••• r. of to our foreign polity. The hon. member for
f ••-' '. feelieg the difficalty to which the country was
is .. ' cam. turward with a lien of his own as an
1- an-. in.: mealier, nor woe te:Platql more iladepOldeStly
Zia I.i Cob nil I) . vas in 1911, when he moved a residue
I. .c of the mete of oar foreign relations. I accepted that rao-
v.: ts a 4e: aration with regard to • policy not his owe, se he
et , - eil eau opereds, but the policy pursued by the govern-
s. u ion-, tot the etitdemt of affairs, and I find scrordingly
Le. .e smile is" that the ptinciplee on which the foreign
tcy of Ler X ajerx's merriment hie bun regulated have
ie tech as weft ealcohted to maintain Ume honour end
itu. -y or the mute'', sad, in times of unexampled difli-
ts'' to peewee peeve between England and the yahoos
sea Jr.. of the +wire." Here there is no laying down of a
d• reta. to dr:heater of opinion as he entertains it, bat •
tht...e. t t'..at the principles which have guided the /o-
ilman% were rub as wen eikuhtted to maintain the
klZ,2t of to touttry r d the peace of the world. The
leat ....ft, thing...re, of the speech of the right hen, gentle-
Mia Oa meremt hi Timer rth ousts to me eutirely nainitod
le the impost veasloo,-'hear)-beeause whatever soy be
tie reprieve. the lon. member for Sheffield, whether they
Fri on wr,o7, he het not plead before the hem -a re.
it:stna efahnli, ice three minions, but has referred to the
trcourse pureed by the government, whirls by WOW
has yens iii ernemes. There le ono despitik le Mrs priatipes we MA dawn Signswil WI ONO 10 Vida
a. NMI Lae. !menet Me Isenbet lit Tea mai Ciao alluded,
sod slush he aye ere atrary to t'.ose eateresdned by, Mr.
I". L'ia 6,""i i'. Mr 'fanning, and other eiminent
IN •!**12•11- .1 . • Per. -,:,,,,, lied deem bay my noble
bead '• " that as red.'''. A .stria the Italian totes were
eati.:•i! • re..h their indepin4etioe," and while assertion
the ,aincip:e it was coupled with one equally andaniahle.
that ev. Ty *sem iga has • r: ht to melte reels refines
adlas Le hicks ese goadocive to the geed of hie psepie
Lien
nit r rovertneat hoe a right to rostrala then, me
ae er,:asest Yearling,: be ready to
—th defer
was tie.. troth I. " (The above ma
11"4 wwl by the zoble lord.) Why, therefore, should lb'
RU t oa. baronet tt.• member for Taiaweeth. la Yt •-, Jr. he elvirld pane*, tare aide bus the
es ...4 4,we by tae 'overman, sad leek them is
Its wriestma of the boa. member for Shield ? The
r.,eLt tv.a harmer wet not acting fairly tame me is ally
ilW'r of the realm. which he gave he mono, this resole-
Ak. bat which were of as mare men tam thin slss it Se • reflection ea the Parnediel 10 to my that the present goverment have
swat& no: the harmer of the errantry and the peace of the
!,',1:4- ILI% a indeed a far fetched conclasion. ' Hear,
!te.w.- bad deers) I oats°capered or pro
4:ii
a rose.
Pe6,-.701 10141.1 foe its object a censure on the policy
L 7 toy. remint and if any owe had asked me what was
ay. Ire' al the conduct
read
ad Aberdeeu, I should have
"hi eel, toat thnueh I differed with him in to pestles-
"' 6tp. sad thought them not well ered, yet that
LL' `ll7,leenairre ol h ghis policy was such as to maintain the
I.
:v.., of the country and the peace of the world. I had
tat. , 4•040.1411 in oh+ an
ing that opinion, d I said so in rid
often to thum who spoke to me upon the sebjeet
It 'fflimrs M is. that there hoe beesbe lately a tea=
1 in this country to depreciate English objects,
7 rim weight to cammunitations from foreign powers,
ithetaum in relatiun to ifecredible armies, and seas.
em se regards diplomat'. c atfideneee which ought
l', cue. Men kept secret. The constant caeillisg easiest
lr. r aernm
eot of thie nun',y has ea eafacteast• effect cot
..e
it.e opinion of the public, but on these who are in thel •,I ..1 tsliiss pen la political trarsarnions. I think there
;'' • luailenit wend at this La the Omsk papers which are be-
. the hoes,. Although I an afraid 1 skill
"Aar the omen of the right here. gentleman the