The Express.
London, England, 1850-08-07 00:00:00

CRIMINAL LAW.

Lord BROUGHAM gave notice of a motion on this subject
kr Thursday next.
PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS (IRELAND) BILL.
Tne Marquis of LANSDOWNE, on the order of the
day being reed for considering the amendments of the Com-
mons to the Lords' amendments on this bill, after detailing
the various amendments which had been made in the bill
by the Lords, and the umber and importance of those to
which the Commons lard agreed, proceeded to call attention
to the amendments from which the Commons dieented. The
fiat of thole was in the qu ilia etion for T >ten. As the
house sent up the bill, the qualificstion was an occupancy
',slued on the poor rates at 81 ; their lordships had altered
that to 151. The Commons, in reconsidering this question,
had adopted by a large majority the medium of 121, to
which he must ask their lordships to assent. If their lord-
ships adopted this amendment of the Commons, it would
lave only 10 in 100 of the adult male population in Ireland
ratified to vote, while the pr.portion in Eoglend, Wales,
and Scotland was 28 in 100, and in Scotland, when it was
the lowest of any part of Grist B itain. it was
25 in 100. UtAler these circumstances, he could
hardly suppose that their lordships would consider 10
la 100 too large an electoral body for Ireland.
He had been accused of inconsistency in the course he had
adopted with reipect to this bill, but be was indifferent to
such accumione. He wos alnico's to get a bill which would
pa, an end to political ferment in Ireland, and would obtain
a franchise for every =gain that country who had an equitable
right to its exercise. There was soother amendment which, on
a former oedema, had undergone much discussion in that
house, Is- mint the self-acting registration clause, for which
their lordships had eubstituted the system of individual
•;
plication, ores as it was to all the oboes of the old
system of potty straggle at the registration courts. There
wire other amendments of little importance, in which some
alterations had been made; but the two he had stated were
the only ones which would require the serious consideration
of their lordship..
Lord STANLEY mid that the amendments to which
the House of Common had acceded were absolutely
necessary to preserve the bill from b-ieg sheer nonsense,
tor in its original form it provided that it should
come Into operation on the let of June; where's it
did not reach that house till July, so that the opera-
tion of a law was to be hied at a time when no each
law existed. The words " tenant or owner "to which the
noble mare cis had adverted were merely explanatory words,
and, as to the joist occupancy amendment, its Mt crion was
proposed by a member of her Majesty's g
mesh B.st, in the two important points in the
Moe points in which their lordships bad mad.
material elterationt, the Commons had disagreed altogether
to their lon 'ships' amendments—ha meant the amount of
the franchise sad the compulsory ft gistratioh. Oa both
these points their lordships haul bad long and patient disco,-
sine and on both had by considerable majorities pronounced
decided and fixed opinions. On that occasion, also, many of
his treble him& hod expressed a hope, in which he cordially
concurred, that their lordship+ were not adopting a 161. fran-
chise, merely for the purpose of making it a
ground of eneeprumise with the llouse of Coen-
tires, but as the lowest amount of franchise which
It w e safe to concede under the circumstances.
Now, if he were to state his opinion, he should say that
instead of that amount being too high, it was dangerously
low for such a contoitiv any as that of Inland. (Hear, hear.)
Their I adships should recoil ct that it was not the ease of
a person paying 151 rater, but of an occupier—no matte.
how insecure his tenure—who was rated at that amount.
In the neighbourhood of towns the tenant of a house and
two atm of ground, might be eligible for a
• le. The noble marquis had dwelt on the no
verity of *stabil/4110g a representative system in
Ireland, bat he (Lord Stanley) wanted to know
on what representation was to be bored. Was it to be men
numbs, or nimbus combined with intelligence and pro-
perty ? He was afraid they were making a constituency for
Ireland which would be the mere repro-irritation of numbers,
or at all events one in which mere numbers would completely
overbalance the - sjourtion based This

prop.. . on roperty.
was • question not of principle, but of degree.
He admitted the principle of extending the ?remain
as far as it could be done with safety, bat the question
was when was the line to be withdrawn. If they
adopted 151. In the first instance, and found that they could
safely drop down to 121., the change would be not only
possible' but easy. If, on the other hand, their lordships
arloptedl2l. in the first instance, and anarchy and diem
'actuation should be the result, they could not, as had
recently been done in a neighbouring country, con-
t.-set the franchise, but must leave it as it stood, however
erroneous and uangerens might be the bine. Their lord-
ships had fully sed earrtully considered the question already,
and had given to Inland • franehite iofinitely below that
which was enj-iyed either by England or Scotland. If the
House of Commons had freely and fairly taken the franchise
fixed by their lordships, it might have been a question whe-
ther the other point should not have been conceded. With
respect to both amendments, be thought that the 121. would
be dangerous if earned, end that even if i s rejection should
same the postoonem-nt of the bill until another session, it
would be better to risk that postponement and any sgi-
Cation it might cause than to take a step which
they could not afterwards retrace. lie should therefore
think it his duty to move that their lordships require the
'stamina of their amendment as regarded the franchise.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE, who was scarcely
audible, was understood to say that he held a very different
opinion from the noble lord, as to the probable working of
the bill. He believed that the 121. clause would
secure a respectable and intelligent cinstituency.
The house divided on the :question of retaining the 161.
rancltise—
Nen contents—Present
Proxies
Contents—Punta

l'rozies

Makvity

The 121. franchise ;was therefore earried.

On mar return to the gallery, we found
The Earl of DESAST stating that he could not, eon•
sistently with his feelings, and consistently with his duty,
assent to this bill. He would, therefore, more that the
house should disagree with the amendment of the Commons,
which contained that principle.
Lord STANLEY said that it it were probable or possible
that their lordships should come to a different division from
the one which had just taken place, he would recommend
his noble friend to press his amendment to a division, as he
bellowed the system 'o be a dangerous and mischievous one.
The Marquis of LANSUOWNE said that the noble lord
might take tn. course which he thought best, but it was not
for him to afford him any facility in taking any course. If
they diMNA on this question he would certainly call for
prozin, as he thought it a fair and legitimate coarse, and one
to which the noble lord had frequently resorted.
Lord STANLEY—I never celled for proxies when I was
in a ministry.
The Marquis of LAN SDOWNE said that there never was a
question ow which prrixiee might be more ligiiissately used,
leg it hid been three months before the public, was agitated
in that sad the other house of parliament, and it had been
perked, well known what the nature of the amendments of
the Home of Commons was. Under such circumstances the
'moats* had been gives with a deliberate intention to sup•
pert the prlngpl soatained In those amendments. If the
noble lord, however, thought that by dividing he would gain
env vote, he would advise him to try it.
The But of DEBART said that he would take the advice
of his noble friend (Lord Stanley). Ile, homey, r, protested
against the principle of the bill, as he considered that it was
uncalled for and itajarious.
The amendment of lb. Earl of DROART was then negatived,
and the aulandeneate of the Houma el Commons agreed to.
Their lordship reee st is router to 9 °Week.

HOUSE OF COMMONL—TuIaDAT, AVOUST 6.
The Seamus trek the ask at 13 o'clock.
POOR-LAW RATING IN IRELAND.
M. W. PATTEN ruled attention to the eke of a Mr.
8 edam, as &ski gratleataa, the owner of swain
lamed k the eswity et Wicklete. wb. had hoes
aaaaddrethreader the per law madam
W. 1101M,VILLE oak that if the perdsalate at the
ere owe famished hiaa, he wield make elo deleateey
PORTLAND HARBOUR BILL

Mr. BANKER oomplaiaed that for MU, whisk wee not a
private, but • public bill, should have been read a third time
at the time of private Wiens, sad said that hie orasti•
twists, who were greatly latereetsd is it, must aew seek for
redraft from the Howie of Lord,.
CRIER AND OUTRAGR (IRELAND) CONTINU-
AMOR -
_ _

The adjoareed dabeta ow mottta fee kaws to ben (is
this bill was mused by
Mr. MOORE, who said that Imp had supported this bill
whew it as onamally ktrodseed, bemuse Ireland was thou
amnia ammaiaa. aed sus ',Watt ••!"twasesto et is
eat •hkh would restore tranquillity to the cOuntry. Bat,
now that pesos universally prevailed, why forge fresh fatten
to maaaele the lhube of uarseistime poverty ? He looked
apes this to be owe a the most mischievous pleas of
lodts-
lades that sou'd be devised.

Colonel It AWDON supported the bill as a measure called
for upon the reeposibility of the pvernatent, and which had
been effectively sad temperately used.
Mr. SCULLY denied that dm responsibility of the go-
vernment wee en argument in favour of this bill, which was
nanmeseary. What the people of Ireland wanted was, not
a swum of coercion, bat measures of relief.
Mr. II'CULLAGH likewise insist, d that no cue had born
made out for toe continuance of this set. He resisted the
measure as a part of a 'chime for operating the people of
Ireland. Governing that country by threats tended to
barbarize it.

Mr. BLACHALL denied that the bill would give addi-
tiosal power to leadlords; it was a measure of precaution,
sad it had operated to prevent outrun, without interfering
is the slightest degree with the rights and liberty of any one.
Ho cordially supported the bill.
Colossi CAULFIELD supported the bill.
Mr R. Y FOX oestplained of the non-intr3duction of
remedial measures.

I.oicrEIIAMIILTON observed that the wrll•inesning
people of Inland had not the slightest jealousy of three
restrictions ; on Ike contrary, they rejoiced at Inch a check
upon evil d'en.
Mr. ROI.:HE oscsidered that inch an unconetitutional law
' wee not required; the ordinary law, properly applied, was
saMoient to seppeeso
Mr. STAFFORD supported the bill from a sense of its
neesseity, and from a feel;ng of coed lance in the prosiest
governsert of Inland, the want of which had led him to
oppose a former coercion bill.
Mr. P. KIWI'S opposed the measure upon the ground
aosigned by Lord John Russell in 1846—name IT, that no
cue had been made out for giving three extraordinary
powers to the government, and protested against the prin•
rip!. of governing by eztra•constitutiocal means merely
because these means effected their object.
Sit D. NOIiItRYS said se the roverantrst had asked for
a continuance of the bill, he should vote for it on the ground'
of confidence.

Colonel CIIATTERTON briefly supported the bill.
The house then divided—
For the amendmeat
Against it
Oa our read:minim to the gallery,
M. HUME was addressing the house in oppnaltion to the
bill. He contended that if the people of England were
treated lake those of Ireland they would resist by force such
an attempt to deprive Ibsen of their rights. The govern
moot had made out no ease for this bill ; there was no case
to make out. He should eive every assistance to hon.
members who thought fit to avail themselvea of all the forms
of the house in opposing thie measure.
Mr. REYNOLDS thanked the hon. member for Mon-
true for his promised assistance. He feared at that late
reriod of the snake no effective erposition could be offered
to the bill, from the paucity of the number of Irish mem-
bers. This bill was an Lull: to the Irish people, the
Secretary for Ireland in intraducice the bill acknowledging
that the country was in a perfect state of tranquillity.
Hr./400HE, referring to the speech of Mr. Sildiffi, sail
he had never heard more elite or effeminate reasoning from
either man or woman. (Laughter )
Sir J. GRAHAM said, as the hour was approaching at
which the house would probably adjourn, he weaned tr e..k
whether at the adjourn. d sitting they would proceed with
the orders of the day or with notices of nantion ?
Lord J. RUSSELL thought it desirable that the house,
after discussing this question for two days, should finish the
debate before they adyourn.d. He was desirous that the or-
ders of the day should have precedence at the adjourned sit-
ting ; but, it hon. members who had notices on the paper
insisted on their right, there was nothing to recut their
bringing them cm.
Colonel THOMPSON said he would not press hi, motion
on the subject of the price of gold to-night.
Mr. HUME asked the noble lord at the head of es•
government when he would be prepared to go on with the
discussion respecting the lonian Islands, because it wu testa-
tiai that some statercent should be made respecting the con-
duct of Sir Henry Ward ? (Haar' hear )
Lord J. RUSSELL said that be would give an °ppm-
tunity of bringing the subject before the house on Fridey or
Monday.
Mr. HUME wiehed to know when be might have an op-
Crtunity of submitting his motion as to the propriety of
yiag the evidence which was taken before the Ceylon com-
mittee on the table of the house ?

Lord .1. RtSSELL hoped tha hon. gentleman would
reconsider his view on the subject. Tte evidence was very
vcluminous, and it being doubtful whether it ehoild be
reported to the house, the committee decided that it ought
not. It appeared to him that the best CO{lffe to irks was to
inform the Governer of Ceylon of the evidence which had
heed taken, and in the next session of parliament he would
be prepere 1 to support a motion for the production d the
evidence. But he did not think it fair to circulate the
evidence when the parties concerned were at a great dis-
tance, and before they could ascertain whether the chugea
were true or false.

Mr. 8. CRAWFORD wished to say a few words on the
question really before the house. (Hear, hear ) He littered
to express his villein!. for the speeds of the bon. amber
for Montrose, because it showed that there were some
English members who desired to maintain the rights and
liberties of Iris".men. (Rear, hear.) It bad been said
that the amendm, of war tantamount to a vote of wait of
confidence. Well, without meaning offence to her Majesty's
government, he for one would say that he had no confidence
in their polity for Ireland. (Hear.)
Sir J. WALMSLEY said that when the season on
which the present bill was founded was introduced in :817,
it was sustained by an array of figures and statistics which
induced a large number of the members of the house, and
esp-cially the Engl;sh members, to vote in fiv,iur of it. (Hear,
bear.) A lamps number of Irish members alto were inilieed
to vote for the bill far the same reason. (Hear, hear.) 11.
believed that there were 30 u 35 Irish members voting in
favour of the bill, and rely 4 against it. That showed that
the Irish members were anzions and desirous that every mea-
sure necessary for preventing crime in Ireland should be in-
troduced end carried. (Hear, bear.) bat on the introdue-
tion of the bill in the present session the Chief Secretary for
Ireland rade oat no au for the meuure before the hones.
(Haar, hear.) Oa the contrary, it appeared to him he
showed as plainly u words could show there was no absolute
necessity for the bill. If it was in mirrored in, he, as far is
he wag able, would oppose its further progress in that house.
Col. THOMPSON said that he entirely concurred in
what had been so well said by the hon. member fur Bolton.
He war strongly impressed with the necessity of crewing an
effective union between England end Ireland.
Strangers were ordered to with.lraw, and in our 'Mine*
from the gallery we understood that Mr. R. M. Fox
moved the adjournment of the debate, on which the house
divided.

For the adjournment 24
Against B5-61
The house then divided on the question that leave be
given to introduce the bill, whet there appeared—
For the motion

Against 24-00
RAILWAYS ABANI:!9NIERI4T BILL.—LORDS'

AMENDMENTS.----- ---
Mr. LABOUCHERB said that he would move the consi-
deration of the Lords' amendments on Friday; and he
wished to state also that although the Attoruey-Oeneral had
intimated that the government would accede to the Lords'
amendments, it should not he considered that the govern•
!sent were pledged to take that course without further con•
sideration.

Mr. LOCKE meld that he should persist in his motion for
Misting the amendaests lauds by this Lords.