The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-11-02 00:00:00

present splendid range of the Bandon basin to provide those
means for building yards on a convenient site, he is still
acting on the very same principles. Somewhere about th e

Bootle land-marks I see a new dock is proposed wher e
building accommodation is to be, provided for the trade of
Liverpool. (Hear, hear).
A MEMBER : Does the Earl of Derby's land go that far ?
(Hear, hear).
Mr. GRA.YSON : I cannot imagine that the authorities are
actuated by any ill feeling towards the shipbuilding trade ;
but had they been so, no course could have been more cal-
culated to ruin and drive the trade of shipbuilding from the
port than that exercised by the authorities of Liverpool.
(Applause). I need not go farther than this very room.
Is this miserable and wretched hovel, after paying for years
for the graving-docks, a suitable place formeeting theharbour
master, and regulating. This is the place applied for our
use; lean only accept it as a token of the esteem, or rather
the want of it, in which, as a body, we are held and treated
by the authorities of the town—the Dock Committee I most
particularly refer to. (Hear, hear).
Mr. W. B. JONES believed the place was built for Mr.
Hartley's shovels and picks.
Mr. GRAYSON : I am glad to see the provision which has
been made for shipbuilding on the opposite side of the
water; it is far better than none at all; but for the sake of
the good old town, I would have been still more happy to
have it granted on this side of the Mersey. (Hear, hear).
I have to apologise to you for occupying what I know to be
valuable time ; but it appears to me we are engaged in a
very important matter, and if I shall not be intrusive I will
go still further into the features of the case. I believe from
the information I received in the notice, it is considered
necessary, by a number of members of the association, that
we should now adopt serious measures to improve the state
of our trade by the introduction of strangers. Now, some-
thing like twelve months ago, when this pressure of business
first arose, a deputation from this association attended, and
a very unusual circumstance it was, but to show they
were desirous of doing everything in their power that rea-
sonable men could do,— a deputation from this association
waited on the journeymen at their club- room in Bond-
street, and there urged on them the necessity of their adopt-
ing some measures for providing an increased number of
shipwrights to do the work of the port. I believe Mr.
M'Elroy specified the number, but at least there was work
for 300 or 400 additional men.
Mr. M'EraloY : 400 or 500 was named.
Mr. GRATsoli: However, the number was absolutely
stated that we required for their own interest, for our inte-
rest, and the interest of the public. Had they acted on the
advice given in so friendly a spirit—and I wish the same
spirit had animated the men ; but they appear from
some injudicious remarks made here, to have got the impres-
sion that we are taking and acting the part of tyrants
towards them. I can only speak the sentiments of the
whole body, when I state that no set of masters are
actuated by better or kindlier feelings than the master ship-
wrights of Liverpool towards their operatives. (Applause).
I fear it is in a
.spirit of retaliation that ever since our
meetings were made public, the journeymen have gone
greater lengths than they did formerly. It is only within
the last few weeks we have had complaints from them on
the breach of the rules, in employing more than one appren-
tice to the proportion of three men. They have tacitly coincided
with us in the necessity of this during the whole of the past
year, and I repeat, I think it is in a spirit of retaliation at
the present moment that they are now endeavouring to throw
that in;our faces, and to charge us with a breach of the rule.
However, before we take such a step as to advertise for a
number f strangers, it is our duty in the present state,
not only of the trade of Liverpool, but if we look around
and see the state of society, particularly of some of the work-
ing classes throughout the whole country, to look well to
our footing before we take so important a step as that.
(Hear, hear.) As Lord John Russell recently said, the
best preparation for war, was first to exhaust all means of
preserving peace. I think that is the principle upon which
we should still act, although I admit that no body of masters
in any other port, or in any other town in the kingdom,
would so long and so submissively have allowed the present
state of things to have gone on as ourselves. (Applause.)
There is nothing which will lead more to the removal of the
prejudice, for I will call it nothing else, they appear to en-
tertain against the association, than proving to them that
we are ourselves willing to make some sacrifices to remedy the
present state of things; that we are not calling upon them
to reduce the value of their labour, which undoubtedly an
increase in the number of men would naturally do, without,
at the same time, being prepared ourselves in some way or
other to meet their case. Now the idea that has suggested
itself to me will probably, I think, not be approved of by
all. It is a matter that will affect seriously the pockets of
some of us. I shall be glad, however, to suggest it, after,
I can assure you, the most serious consideration on my
part, as most likely to meet the present case, and it is this :
that the journeymen should be called upon to increase their
present number of shipwrights from 1700, to, at all events,
2000, but in consequence of the fact that in most parts of
the kingdom the apprenticeship is confined perhaps to five
or six years, there certainly does appear some mjusticein
bringing men amongst them of that class whereas Liver-
pool men have all to serve the full apprenticeship of seven
years. This, T think, wnald he cagily rpmcdiod, if it were
made a provision betore such men were admitted, for a year
or two, as the case might be, these men should pay the jour-
neymen's society a per tentage of five or ten per cent., or any
other amount they might fix upon, towards the support of
the society, for when all is said and done, I believe the
operatives' society has kept to its legitimate object, to assist
the poor, sick, aged, and for the burial of the dead, and is a
most praiseworthy one. (Hear, Hear.) It is the abuse
and not the use of this society we find fault with, and in
order to meet that on our parts, I should propose that every
master in this association should give up the whole of his
apprentices who are now in the seventh year, that is
to say that all from six years upwards, should be at once
made journeymen, (hear, hear,) they on their own part, also
paying a contribution, which. I would leave entirely to the
journeymen themselves to settle, but paying a contribution
towards the support of the society. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. PAUL: That is to be in addition to the 300 men.
Mr. GRAYSON: It appoars to me we are standing alone on
seven years apprenticeship. It is a remnant of barbarism,
that any young man should be called upon to devote
seven years of the best of his life, to the service of
any.master. This has been seen in most other pro-
fessions, and they have gradually reduced it to five or six
years. This is a matter for the consideration of the
journeymen than for us, but it is to show them that the
masters, with a view to produce a more satisfactory state of
things, are prepared to bear their part of the loss that may
accrue from the regulation, and at the same time we are
convinced it is the only step that can be taken to prevent
the collision that must eventually end in the greatest misery
to themselves, and the greatest loss to us, the ship-
owners, and the general trade of the port. (Hear, hear. In
order to carry this out the first suggestion I would make is
this : that on a given day in the course of the ensuing week
our own secretary and the secretary of the shipwrights'
association, and a third, and perfectly independent party
selected by them both, should commence at one end of the
town, and ask each individual master distinctly how many
men he was then in want of; and that there may be no exag-
geration, a list should be prodnced by each master, with the
name of the ship for which they were required. By pur-
suing this course it would at once show us the facts of the
case; it would put an end to grumbling, and denying the
Tact that we are in want of men, which is boldly denied
occasionally. This would put us on a fair basis to commence
with. After having done so, I would suggest, as the next
step, that the men having prejudices against some of the
masters of the association, the masters should name six or
eight persons, or any other number whom they thought
they could repose confidence in as acting in a fair and
'
impartial manner and, on the other hand that the men, on
their part, should select, an equal number of their asso-
ciation, who had not committed themselves in any de-
cided manner, as some of them have done, that they
never will agree to men coming to work from other ports ;
but select a number of intelligent and sensible men to meet
an equal number of masters , and discuss this question. I
Should further suggest that a chairman or arbitrator be
Selected • from amongst independent shipowners. If some
step of this kind were taken, it would put us in such a
position of fairness before the whole world, they could not
resist acceding to our proposition. (Hear, hear). There is
no force so strong as that of justice, and particularly when
it is supported.by public ?pinion; (Hear hear). As I said
I think some injudicious allusions about breaking up the
chili and-so-forth, have' done no good but the contrary. I
never knew a body of Englishmen whom a threat ever in-
fluenced. I believe they are most accessable to reason,
argument and justice ; but of all classes in the world, they
are the most uninfluenced, if not, positively prejudiced, by
anything approaching to the threat. I believe those men
were it not for the sufferings of their families and children,
many of them would die rather than submit if we once came
to an open rupture or strike. And when we find it is 'only
through the sufferings of the innocent partners of their
homes, that we could expect to gain a victory, it ought to
make us more cautious how we produce a collision which
would place us in this position. For myself, I recoil from
such a thought. At the same time, do not let it be supposed
we must not take such steps if the present state of things aro
allowed to continue. I bow most implicitly to the authority
which states, "if possible, live peaceably with all men.
But the very mention of the " if' shows there are cases
which prove an exception, when it is not possible to live
peaceably with all men; and, gentlemen, if we are forced
into the position, although no man would make greater sa-
crifices to avoid it, few would be found to adhere more
rigidly to any resolution that might be adopted by this asso-
ciation, than myself. (Hear, hear.) I have thought it right
to go thus into detail before the important resolution is put,
because, if once adopted, it would have to be carried out,
and I think this is the proper time, before we are committed,
either by irritating language or acts, to give one clear, open,
candid invitation to all concerned, to settle this unhappy
difference on legitimate and just grounds. (Hear, hear.)
I think we can appeal on the very strongest grounds to our
workmen, we can appeal in justice to the shipowner,
who now, since the repeal of the navigation laws, has to
compete on free trade principles, with the whole world,—
who has to run the gauntlet unarmed with every rival
commercial nation on the face of the globe, and who
alone, when he finds his ship returned to her
native port is there to be made the victim of monopoly,