The Express.
London, England, 1850-02-12 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, • TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 12, 1850.

AUffICRALIA. •
Mr. F. SCOTT gag moths fah day %SIM ice metal&
mmpcogesso Maas to theltkaiiha .010111916
FACTORIES.
In mower to Yr. Watraa,
Sir O. GREY premised that eistala retain% relative to
factories, should operedily be laid ea the table.
RCCLESIASTICAL CS
LOMMISSI&ON.—Mr. NNOM.
MAN'ETTS
Lord ASHLEY-Bh, with Menace to the sad Mies
whisk stands upon the paper, I will, with *Jam
mission of my how. friend, the member for
mouth, In
for one moment between the buss
and his metilm—s liberty whlek I trust I shall be slisersd
to take, the lllllreexially es I enjoy the !Timid* offbath
the honourable eassersed, sad can vowel. Nese pew
anal knowledge that the most houourable mativas knee
always resided lief in both their private and pshils sew
duet. (Hear Mar., The hews will, I an ens% levee
with as In deploring that any Menace of *aim disshil
haw urine between two of its isenaben who steal so SO
I. public sealitlesse and estimation, and who, I sea ewrie,
aotwithkanding what hes occurred, still eat stale
maul tempest sod kind t. silos for each other.
(Rear, Mar) Now I do not think that this differesse
of opisies will be adjueted by the method proposed by my
boa. Mark who moves for a committee, to which the quo.
ties may he submitted. (Hear, hear) How can my
noble friend, at this distance of time, charge his meimey
with the prods. expulsions he may have used when a qur
den was put to him in the came of debate ? and if sees
tite maker Gould be precisely established, I de not Weak
a smsaittee of this hones the proper tribunal to adjudicate
lases what I. es my cot:defuses, believe to have been
simply and altogether • misandentanding of the
views and intentions of each of the parties con-
cerned. (Hear hear.) I think the house would
be best alleged and the paths service most advan-
taged if, without saying more than that we regretted
that any difference of opinion should have taken place
between the parties, we proceeded at ones to the other
besiases on the paper. (Hear, hear.) I trust that the
i house will excuse me for having proposed this course. I
Mere been compelled to it by my anxiety for the public ser-
vice, because I eatertaie the very highest respect for b Alt
gentlemen, and because I son convinced that nothing but a
esieundentanding could have led to such an issue as that
which we ars now discussing. I beg to move that the orders
of the day be rind.
Col. KNOX seconded the motion.
Mr. HORSMAN—If I am to understand that the house
unanimously aces des to the proposition of my noble friend,
I Mat ask its indulgence while I say a few words in justice
Ilt=l. If the house is to peas to the other orders, the
remains in this state, that I have made a charge
Witisk I has not been in, iwl either to prove or retract. I
must say that the matter ending in that manner, is not the
way in which I should wish it to end in jastke
to the noble lord ; and if its ending were not
jest towards the noble lord it would not be! satisfactory
to my own feelings. (Hear, hear) I therefore think I
ought to state to the house, as certain passages in that letter
which has been alluded to have been misunderstood, I think
1 ought to state what was the interpretation I intended to
be put on them, how far I intended to make any com-
plaint against the noble lord, and how sincerely
and how readily I withdraw any charge against
his personal honour. (Hear, hear.) I did not intend
Is make sty elk/anon whatever against the noble lord's
*lute, air MI I intend that any such construction should
M pat epee nay letter. I was fax from intending to
es that the noble lord had made any misstatement.
I that the noble lord wee annoyed at my having
peenesseeed vier this motion, and that he took every oppor-
Mink Maheatina how he could dispense with the ordinary
eseetesies of the house in the mesa a no, saber who had net
• peep at hif hack. I believed further that he had lams-
=serried on that course to such an extent, as to caw
himself, and to justify me in complaining of his
eosin& If I am eked whether I thought that at any
mamma the noble lord iutendeii to deceive me, I say that
there was no such allegation in my letter, and on my
honour, that there was no such impression on
my mind. (Hue., hear.) Indeed I may add,
that so far from deliberate deceit, I thiak the
noble lord acted incautiously ; so far from a d:s-
positioa to deceive, I believed that there was only a dis-
position to annoy. I admit, for Ido not mean to spare my-
self in this matter, that I have on some occasions given the
noble lord provocaiik. I have only further to say
that I withdraw cheerfully every females which could
offend either the noble lord or the right hes. gentle-
man his colleague, with the expression of my sincere
regret for baring written anything that could be disagreeable
to their feelings, and I have also to apol-glee to the house
for the trouble to which they have been put in this matter.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I certainly received the impression
from the letter which was read the other day, that the hon.
gentleman supposed that I Lutended to deceive bins with
respect to a measure then before the house, and as I certainly
felt unconscious of any such intention, I could :not but be
surprised at the allegation. Is appears now, and I cannot
but hear it with the greatest satisfaction, net only that he
does sot make that charge, bat that he never intended to
mks it. (Rear, hear) Nothing could be mots satisfee-
tely to my feelings than the hon. member's explanation
spa that point. With regard to any other matter all I can
say is, as the hon. member hopes that I will only attribute
to public motives his alkalies in pressing forward
certain questions that I certainly am willing to
do him full justice in that respect, and to believe that
in pressing forward these questions he has ao object
in view but the general benefit of the public and the im-
provement of the church. (Hear, hair) I am in a some-
what different position from the hon. gentleman. I think
he must feel that while it is competent to him to state hers
to the fullest extent his impressions on any sub.
jest, I am bound, as a minister of the crown,
when I undertake a measure, not only to show I
to the hens* that the measure is just, but also
to endeavour to communicate such impressions to every one
interested in its progress. I believe that this difference in
oar positions has been the main cause of the misunder-
standing.
Sir G GREY.—I rise merely to express my entire satis-
faction at the terms in which the hon. gentleman
has retracted the charge made against my noble
friend and myself.
The subject then dropped.
SUPPLY OF WATER TO THE METROPOLIS.
Coloael KNOX inquired whether ministers intended to
take this emotion into consideration, with the view of in-
creating the supply and carrying out the sanitary improve-
Bent of London ; and also what nurse they intended to
adopt in regard to all private bills proposing to improve the
supply of water.
Sir G. GREY replied that the question of the supply of
water woe ander the consideration of the Board of Health,
and he had received a communication from his noble friend
the chairman of that board, • acing that at an surly period
their report would be before the hone., and reef mmuniing
that in the interim no bill having a reference to the
of water to the metropolis should be allowed to premett
was his (Sir 0. Grey's) intention to submit • Nestles to-
morrow, in seeortissee with that recommendation, that so
such bill be allowed to be read a woad time before Easter.
AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS.

Mr. SAliiiikiniCeZl,pursaaittTsnoties,the President
of the Board of Trade whether the government had any in-
tention of introducing a measure of agricultural statistics
dewing the present session, es the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer eauld not now object on the ground of deficiency of the
ways sod means.
Mr. LABOUCHERE replied that the subject wee under
' consideration but at present the peat dithailty was In
finding any adequate machinery let earniag oat the
object LAW (IRELAND AND SCOTLAND.)

Mr: DISRABLI iogair• d it the Secretary of State had
yet reosived the eeaua► rovrt of the Irish poor-law cos-
wheianen ; oleo the annual report of the eupervuon of the
poor law in Scotland ?
Sir 0. GREY had not yet received either of thew, bat
would make iariairy on the ottijict.
THE INSURRECTION IN CEYLON.—CAPTAIN

eat of thildepeekhoy." was then put, Gad speed
1111thout shaththlthr.
r In ELWIN than nosed that the following seaben
stheillate the assmilass :—Mr. Bailie, Mr. Hume, Sir
Arhus Walemiey, Mr ashen Peel, Sir Hogg, Mr.
lea Mr. Chad's Villiers, Mr. Disraeli. Mr.'HaLrersti
Ils Alhiertey,_ Mr. Mhos, Mr. Stuart Wortley,
lielksa, Kr. . KTollosb. sod Major Wuhan.
liir. SWUM —As ess ethos who had bees 'sleeted to
sit ea title comenei_ Sestina s a somber of the ememittut of
lea/ peer he felt NOW tem that he could not expect that
jostle' WORM ~deem th this important question which it
wee the area Is insdgele. When the noble lord objected
M the resousesdation that a esuaiselon should go out to
Ceylon and there funds" on the spot the parties who were
hest ale to give evidesee, he took the opportunity of saying
that, es it wan the prayer of the petitiosen— and he had pre-
sented fur petitions es the subject to the house—that 'mi-
dmost* prove their 'iterations should be taken by • coo-
sissies on the spot, because in no other wsy could a full and
fair iavestigation of the tuts be obtained, a parliamentary
sonusittee only would not be satisfactory. The noble lord how-
ever Wasted to that, and left it to the committee to send for
*MOM* gad then he (Mr. Hume) suggested that if it really
was ithesded by the government to have a fair inquiry, the
pithy whose conduct was 'spurned should have leave of
thseses, or retire from his shalom es Governor of Ceylon, in
seder that he and those under his control might not have it
in their power to interfere to prevent such evidence beige
meat to England as might be neecesory to elucidate the ques
tion. (Hear, hear.) 'The noble lord thought that that
would have been an imputation against Lord Torrington, but
it wu precisely the course which had been followed, he be-
lieved, in every case where high crimes and misdemeanour
had been charged spins a public functionary.
Mr. J. STUART did not see how the hones could dis-
tillingee its duty in the matter unless they obtained some
'serene' that the proceedings of the committee should be se
sesdnetied as to elicit the whole truth. (lieu. hear.) More
extraordinary circumstances than those under which this
committee we. appointed had probably never occurred.
Without full power to summon wham's and proper facili-
ties for the production of evidence the appointment of the
committee was but an idle ceremony. The statements et
hon. gentlemen who were members of the committee of last
year' and the recorded proceedings of that committee proved
that all attempts on their part to obtain the attendance of
witnesses whose evidence they considered necessary, had
been utterly and entirely baffled. (" No.") He did sot
mesa to say that the attendance of all witn'es's
had been pretested, bat as his honourable friend
the member for Oxfordshire (Mr. Henley) had mid
the other day, if it was intended to reappoint the con-
mitts* in this way, the house would be in the singular posi-
tion of instituting an inquiry by means of • committee, with
charm brought against the government of Ceylon, knowing
that that committee would have to enter upon the investiga-
tion, and have evidence for the defence without having the
wer of bringing before them witnesses for the prosecution
No," from Mr. Hawes, and "Hear, hear.") The hon.
ceder Secretary for the Ctloaies sail "no." (Haar.) Now
he (Mr. Stuart) could only go upon the recorded proceed-
ings of the committee of last year, and he found that on one
of the last days on which the committee sat, they passed •
resolution, regretting that they were unable, in consequence
of the termination of the moon, to carry to • terminative
their inquiry into the grievance complained of in the ad-
ministration of the government of Ceylon, the causes of the
late Jeanne:titan, and the means adopted by the government
for its suppression ; but, from the gravity of the cir-
cumstances, recommending that the committee should
be reappointed in the next session, and that mesas
should be adopted in the interval by the Se
eretary of State for the Colonies to insure the attend-
ance before such committee of the Cionie's advocate of
Ceylon, Capt. Watson, and others, whose evidence might be
necenary to explain and establish the circumstances tinder
which martial law was proclaimed. (Hoar, hear.) This
resolution was come to on the 30th July and principally
because on the 25th of July • complaiat hod been made in
the house by the chairman of the committee, that without
the ionise of • commission for inquiry on the spot the com-
mittee was of opinion that it could not usefully conduct its
investigations. When that statement was made, the right
hoe. baronet (Sir J. Graham), interfering with great gravity
and dignity, with the view to call attention to the fact that
this was • grave judicial enquiry and concurring with the nob''
lard (Lord J. Russell) that a eusenesion at Ceylon, as sug-
gested by the committee, was not the proper mode of pro-
»Win, he recommended another course ; such recommen-
dation being, as he understood, adopted by the noble
lord. He found it recorded in the proceeding. of the
committee of lest year that the Secretary for the Colonial be
requited to attend before it to give certain explanations,
and make certain statements on points which he could eluci-
date, and the committee he found had put the noble earl in
posensioa of what the particular object of the se inquiries
I was to be, and that what they wanted to know was, fleet,
whether he bad readved any copies of the proceeding. of the
moutemartial, of the evidence taken by them, and the mode
in which thou tribunals were constituted, and, if not, -he-
thee he bad ordered such information to be furnished to him.
The noble earl refused to attend, and, in his reply of the 11th
of July, be stated that he did not possess the information
required, sod as to any opinion he might have formed on the
subject he did not consider it consistent with hi. duty
to state it, but the question whether he had
ordered the required information to be supplied
to him was not 'wagered. He believed as the committee
was now constituted they would have the power of ex-
amining the noble lord on these points, but unless they had
oemc assurance that means would the afforded for carrying
on the investigation fully and fairly, they might go on to
the end of the present session and find themselves then no
forwarder than they were at the close of the last. If the
committee was to be appointed merely to whitewash Lord
Terrington, without going into any evidence as to the
charge molest him, it would be better to have no enquiry at
all. (Hear, hear.) He charged the noble lord with etretch-
leg to the utmost his powers over the majority of that
house to p t a proper and full investigation by the only
means in which it could be had hen, the production of the
necessary witnesses—(cheep)—and unless some assurance
we. given that such witnesses were forthcoming, he, for one.
would prefer to have no committee at all. (Hear, hoar.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—Though the questions the hon. and
learned gentleman had adverted to had been fully discussed
on Wednesday last, he would endeavour to state the dis-
tinction which the hon. and learned gentleman appeared to
have overlo..ked. As he (Lord J. Russell) understood the
right hon. gentleman, the member for Ripon, last year, he
proposed that the chairman of the committee should com-
municate and consult with the Secretary of State for the
Colonies, with regard to the witnesses they thought neces-
sary to have produced. That was the sense in which he un-
dentoon the sugvestion' and no doubt that was the sense in
which his hon. friend ( Mr. Hawes) understood it. Ac-
antingly on the next day the committee met,
they agreed that two witnesses should be sum-
mered, and on the chairman, au the proper wean
oldie sceamittmi communicating that resolution to the Sear
lacy a Mate they were summoned—one of them being Cari-
tas Wawa. But if his hon. friend (Mr. Hawes), when
that sissiation was moved, had been told, " this means that
the *Rieman of the committee is to have the power of abso-
Map ordering the Secretary of State to summon whatever
Mimeos he may choose, and that during the next six
maths be must summon whoever the chairman may think
peeper, without any discretion on his part," his hon. friend
the Under Secretary would n ,as a member of the corn-
Weise, have given his assent to it The resolution was un-
dmthout to area that the chairman should consult with
the Secretary of State, not direct him, as to who
should be summoned.
Mr. ADDERLEY said that no hon. member on that (the
opposition) aide of the hones wished to exclude the defence,
Ist what they urged was that the defence should not be
wade till the chugs was completed. (Hear, hear.) The
noble lord put the question more fairly the other night than
he did now, for then he said the chairman might have been
=roteto consult with or direct the colonial secretary,
r
he said it was to direct. When the committee
me after the discusioa in the house in July lest, two
withomes were suggested, bet they were not definitely named.
They mentioned two witnesses, but they said there were
others absolutely necessary, and especially those acquainted
with the operation of the courts-martial, respecting which
nothing could be elicited from the two wheelies mentioned.
The question wee, how to get those other witnesses. It was
stated that it wag impossible to get them without writing to
Ceylon. The house had already said they would not allow •
sammission to proceed to Ceylon, and thereto» the only alter
satins the committee had was the one they pursued,
and which at the time appeared to have been agreed to by
the colonial secretary, namely, to delegate to the chairman
authority to correspond with the loamy, and ascertain the
trimness who would be requisite, and then to go to Lord
Gm and ask him to have thoee winnows summoned. But
the mouth of the chairman had bees stopped at once, for
Lord Grey instantly demented to that hos. gentleman's au-
thority.
Mr. DISB.A.ELI said he should refrain, on the present
oesesion, from reviving the debate of Wednesday last upon
the adze of Ceylon; but as the noble lord at the head of
the government had made allusion to the hon. gen-
tleman (Mr. Baillie) the chairman of the committee, he
(Mr. Disraeli) felt bound to say that his hon. friend the
ehairmen wee fully justified, upon the authority of the
documents in his posseseion, in making the statements he did
relative to the affain in question. The witnesses, however,
who might have felt aggrieved by the statements would be
examined before the committee, and would then doubtless
explain. (Hear.) It was his (Mr. Disraeli's) duty also to
say that the chairman had himself brought before the com-
mittee only three whence', two of them gentlemen who
filled high official poets, and one who had been appointed a
member of council. Therefore his hon. friend had not in
any way brought forward • case which he had attempted to
substantiate W unfair means, or by witnesses whose
opinions were not entitled to have great influence with
the house and the country.
Mr. ROEBUCK said it must be clear to the house from
the mount discussion, that the committee was going to its
Jabots' under difficult circumstances. (Hear.) Toe hon.
member for Buckinghamshire, the hon. chairman of the
committee, and the hen. member for Newark (Mr. Stuart),
had all said they were couselous—they were sure—that there
wee to be • power employed by the government to interfere
with the invesdiatiou submitted to the committee, that the
official powers of the colonial 'inherit»; were to be employed
for the purpose of braving toe investigation. Now, that was
the charge. (Hear, hear.) That was the grave chugs
broesht against the government at the present moment, and
every one of the gentlemen who had made it, with the ex-
autos of the hon. member for Newark, were members of
the committes ; and they all said that they were going into
the committee, that they weree members o
it, and-that they
were going to Nuke the estigation. Why, the whole
proceeding was one that would be characterised out of doors
as incousistent upon their pate. The idea of going into a
committee, proceeding it with a charge against the govern-
' most, sad saying they scud net do baths, that they were

mice to be midaterpnted, and stepped, and that they
.0011 not obtain a thorough hiesstigetion, soma
Wasp. (Rear, hear.) The mil proseediag M the
pert .1 than gentlemen `mitt to be, tom refuse to be ma-
bore sC the sountaittee. He thought Lord Terriegion's
great 'Make had Men, that be ever handled a pm. If he
had not written despatches, bet only acted, be might have
been a very good ip.vernor ; and he (Mr. Roebuck) did not
know whether be bad Written the di totehes himself, but
he presumed Es bad. But, beige a governor in the midst of
a hostile population, as be wee—and he (Mr. Roebuck)
knew the population—be had in reality no mere
to do than any other man, to prevent IL.
effemLn of blood; and if he bad tampered with the blood of
a hostile population of that sort, we should hem had a war
in Cs lon, and where we had one man al tin now we might
have had a thoutand. (Hear, hear.) Bat, beaus hon.
gentlemen with refined feelings bad received representations
that certain things bad been done contrary to law, they
were frightened. What was contrary to law in Ceylon ?
Let this be understood. Ceylon was a conquered depen-
deng. By the very fact of its being conquered, eke law of
Ceylon was a law. The English law wee wily introduced
there by the direct intervention of eke Sovereign, or
by an act of parliament. Wh devil. the Sovereign chose
to do, 'uprising no sat of parliament interfered, went as far
as the WWl'. ire desired sae he wanted to know if It were
not law—the hon. member fur Newark vim en learned about

cons itutional law that he would set him right if he was
wrong—he wanted to know if ft were not I constant and
well understood, that a conquered di pendt try had the law
of a cot quered dependency until it v as &Bend, either by the
determination of the 1111011.11feil of England cr by an act of
parliament? He wanted some one tit show him the act of
parliament which di' prevent the governor Prim proclaiming
martial law. (Hear, hear.) He had nen mar: al law pro-
claimed even where there was a constitution. He had seen
that martial law supported in that house. He had known
persons under that martial law tube convected and exec uted,
and be had found no sympathy tape s-rd to that house it.
consequence of that martial law. but ha waned to know
whether it was illegal for Lord Torrington to have pro-
ds med martial law in Ceylon ? It wan not 111. gel, hi.
lordshipasight have proclaimed it, to d ho might also nave ap-
pointed the tribunals which trie I th. prianucts; and though
it might be said that he was cruel, trot he was imperious,
that he did things which a mild and weeks' man ought not
to have done, yet be (Nr. S..buek) judged by
the result that peace had bet n nowitnined in that island
from that time to this. (Hear.) Any f those honourable
gentlemen, then, who believed that by going nto this
taveetigation he would be bafilA by toe colonial
minister, would do much more tor Lir own chsra-ter
and the country if be d. eared that he would withdraw himself
from the committee, and not go into 14.1 it quiry with this
sort of preparatory means of exculpating Limo. lf, if he failed
to support the imputation. (Ilea', bear.)
Mr. LULUS said he should not go into the question
martial law, in tisane, whether th .t I.w was or was nut justi-
tiable was not at preemie under discusaiun. The hun. gen-
tleman who had just sat down a; ated to tie house that
crrtaia charges had been made against thr ji veronica:.
What were these charges ? The govt rum. n. had indeed been
charged with refusing to a red for witurian-, and that hail been
proved; but no other impiestions against Diem had been
advanced. (lieu, hear) Yeruscuituns were going on in
Ceylon against witnesses of the high .at classes, and be
feared he should be en der the Deetw•ity of bringing this
subject under the notice of the Louse, an order to obtain
protection for the wituasses ice question,
Mr. HUME said that as lung as he had been in that
house he hid never beard a mare efraonie.l speech than
that deliver. dby the bon member f th, effield. (" Heir,
hoar," and laughter.) The will of Lord Torrington was the
law of Ceylon ; and was it not too much, when the haute
heard of certain transactions, such an the shedding of human
blood, the banishment t f subj. cts, and the confiscation of
property, to be told be the hen. member for Bneffield, who
bad shown that he, at all event., was no poli.i. ian—(loud
laughter)—that those who advocau d the cause of humanity
ware pipulsrity-huntiog ? (Hear, hear.) II any man de-
served to be called a popularity.hunbr is arm' the boa. mem-
ber himself; and how that bon. g atla nom e. sold reconcile
the extraordinary language he had just used with his advo-
cacy at the bar of the house of those who were called the
xis" of Canada, he (Mr. Hume) was unable to say. He
complained of injustice. Ha conteuded that fair play
tiad not been shown the comma' we with re-
ference to the production of the witnesses. The
bon. member for Sheffield must have been ig-
,..

norant of the facts which transpired before the committee,
or he could have made such a spa ech as he had now
delivered. Was his boo. friend aware that 1N individuals
bad been shot upon the evidence given before a 'smut-martial,
at which no judge-advocate, or senior officer, was present,
and that no utficial document, other roars that in the hive
book, bearing upon this transaciaoa, bad b,(11 placed by her
Majesty's government before the commit ve Were they in
the H.nse of Commons, the great in.quest of the
nation, to be told that they wire doing in-
jury, because they sought to obtain the truth, and to ascer-
tain facts? (Hear.) He deeply regretted to see the bon.
member for Sheffield standing up as the advocate of tyranny
—(" hear " and laughter)—as the advocate ut martial law,
and then accuaing othin of popularity butitiog, because
th'y had shown an anxiety for full and sea:01114 meads&
lion. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK said he would 'Wilms the anger of his
hon. friend 'o a misapprehension of his (Mr. ILebucv's)
intention. his hon. friend had been run led by his own
kind fond wishes and fee.ings, which dad not always
contribute to clear-sightedoo• —(a laugh) hut he
(Mr. Roebuck) had no imputation to b ing against his hen.
friend theirs.. He could out swerve from his pa OpOli•

tion—namely, that the hen. gentlemen who tad pie-deter-
mined and pie-declared that there was no chance of obtain-
ing truth—ought net to become member of the committee.
(Hear.)
The names were then agreed to.
_ PIRATES (HEAD MONEY) REPEAL BILL.
. .

On the order for the second readiOg of thi. bill,
Sir O. CLERK said he apprehended that the object
of introducing this bill was because the claims under
it amounted to a large sum. If there were cues
where the amount of reward to be given was quite dispro-
portionate to the sereioes rendered, it might bs highly im-
proper to modify the bill, by defining the classification
under which alone bead money was to be given. The
principle of giving a prize of so much a head for every man
on board an enemy's tamp woe not a new prise:pie, but was
as old as the British navy itself. The act under which 51. a
heed was given for every man expired with the last war,
and soon afterward*, about the year 1820 an. 1521, on
account of the state of anarchy which existed on the
South American coast from the Spanish colonies being at
that time asserting their independence, a number of vessels
were fitted out, which practised the most atrocious acts of
piracy, plundering the trading wink', and committingmany
barbarsus murders. During that time several actions, in-
ferior to none for the gallantry which was displayed, took
place off the coast of Cuoa, and at a considerable sacrifice of
our officers and seamen, we did exterminate and put an end
to the system of piracy which existed in the West Indica. Ilia
Majesty's government then felt that it was highly expedient
to reward the captors of these pirate*.
Sir F. T. BARING said by the bill which they proposed
to repeal, 201. was given for every pirate made prisoner,
and 51. for every'
_pirate who was engaged in toe action, and
who escaped. Ile hoped that anything he might sate would
not cast any reflection whatever upon those engaged in this
dangerous service, but the nr.,de in which they were re-
warded was open to great objections, b..cause it rendered
them liable to imputations which. he th.uteht. were highly
derogatory to the service in which they were engaged.
They therefore proposed to entirely get rid of the
distinction between the reward given for the pirates who
were captured and those who escaped. It became a consi
deration, therefore, in what manner the law should be al-
tered. The amount was very heavy durirg the last year,
which, by en act of parliament, they were compelled to pay.
Toe amount wee about 100,0001. ; and he thought that of
itself was • reason why the subject should come under re.

-------------
Mr. HUME entirely agreed with the First Lord of the
Admiralty in the propriety of repealog this act, seal he
thought some credit was due to government for the manner
in which they had come forward and expressed their disap-
probation of the system which now exis a. He conceived
that the principle on which this money had
been given was wrong. It was, in his opinion, are Section
on the *orrice that our naval ofithera and seamen would
not do their duty if they did not get this additional reward.
He agreed with the old adage that the pirate was an enemy
to everybody, and ought to be put down. He withed the
right hon. baronet to tell him when be could lay on the
table of the house the papers he had moved tor, because on
them would depend whether be should call the attention of
the house to this fraud which had been committed on the
country by means of en act of parliament. He could not
hold government altogether innocent in this affair,
when he knew that they had prompted the officer
employed in this service, though there had been
no despatches. He hoped that, be fore the house
voted this 100,0001., they would inquire how the
claim bad arisen, because under the act the men for whose
capture the money was to be given were to be brought be-
fore a court and proved to be pirates. Now, in the whole of
the proceedings in this ease they had had no evidence what-
ever that these men we: e pirates. He supposed the money
was awarded by the Court of Singapore. (Sir k'. T. Baring
was understood to say, " Yes.") That was a power of
drawing on the revenue of this country which was most ex-
traordinary.
Sir F. T. BARING, in answer to the observations of the
hoe. gentleman, hoped the house would permit him to say
that he had made no observations in reference to the cha-
t ranter of the service. There would be but little delay in
k laying on the table of the house the papers which they bad
got.

Mr. COBDEN said be bad presented a petition from •
public meeting in London, calling the attention or the house
to the subject of the Borneo massacres, and now as they
were promised papers on the subject, be should not pre-
judge the cue. But he could not allow the statement of the
right hon. gentleman to pass, that they were going I. have
• bill brought in to pay 100,0001. for destroying the
pirates, as they were called, without his protesting against
pit,
rabecause he contended we had no evidence that these
tee troubled our commerce. He might state from the
highest authority, that at Lloyd's there had been no ap-
preciable rise of premium on the insurance of ships to the
mist ; and therefore he had primes facie evidence that there
was no piney of English aommeres. This money was
claimed for services which were net contemplated when the
bill was palmed ; for, as the hon. patients" stated, the act
was passed to protect our commerce from the buccaneers of
the Wert Indies, who were cooking and plundering
ships in that part of the world. Hs wished the right
honourable gentleman and the government to understand
that they must have an inquiry into this matter. He would
not enlarge on the matter. There were men in We

meta well acquainted with the whole eoeat cf Borneo,
' who wauld asy that Egli* ships were neva molested there.
He did not agree with the member for Sheffield that we
were not responsible for our ships of war. He believed that
if we allowed sets of Wellies to be perpetrated, whether in
Borneo or elsewhere,and if we did not take some steps to
remedy those ate isjustice, there was an over.rulisg Pro-
vidence who ruled the world on principles of jostles, and
that there would surely bo tebfbotion on this land.

Sir H. VERNEY r;fenred to statements la Sir Statarord
Raffia's account of Java and Sumatra, that the natives of
those 'metrics pranise piracy as a profession, and consider
it honourable, and said he was sure that If hon. gentlemen
would go into the matter they would be satisfied that if
0011111W00 was to be carried en with Australia and China the
exemaination of these pirates was akeolutely necessary.
Col. THOMPSON remarked that what they wanted wee
evidence. They did not admire pirates; show that these
tribes were pirates sad they would he against them.
The bill was then read a second time.
THE AUSTRALIAN COLONIES BILL.
The retort on this bell was brought up aud agreed to,
ARMY AND ORDNANCE EXPENDITURE.
Mr. F. 11AULE said that in the absence of his right hon.
friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer he would move the
resolution of which he had given notice, that • select com-
mittee be appointed to consider the subject of the army and
ordnance expenditure.—Agreed tD.

THE MERCHANT SERVICE.
r. LABOUCHERE moved that the house go into com-
mittee on the I,llowing bills—for improving the condition of
maestro, mares, and seamen in the merc",ant service;
for the regulation of the Merchant Seamen's Fund; and for
the regulation, &c. of the admeasurement of the tonnage
and burden of merchant shipping.
The hone, havit g gone into committee,
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he felt that it was quite
unneetneary 1.. r him to detain the home by urging
on them the immense importance of questions of this dre-
cripti tn. It nu true that they possessed little of party in.
terest, they excited little discuesinn, but they affected a dais
of her Majesty's ttutikets than whom none could be better
en..ttled to the care of that house. He was sure he should

altogether miseaderstand the feelings, which he trusted
sweetie ever an it..ate a British House of Commons, if he
thought it necessary to descant on the value of that clue,
and to show that they deserved the attention of the house.
Tne three questions of which he had given notice, and which
it would be his duty to state in detail, the view. of
the government upon sena first of all the measures which
might be expedient to improve the condition of the captains,
mates, and sews in of the merchant service. In the second
'shier, the state and prosp,:cta of the Merchant Seamen's
Fund, and what measures it might be necessary to pan
thereon, in order to place that filed in • more satisfactory
condition than that in which, he lamented to say, it now was
and bad ler is 1 nig time been ; and, lastly, what improvement
might be made in the system ofmeasuring tre tonnage of ships.
Terse questions were dealt with by three separate hills,
which he proposed to ask authority from the committee to
bring in. Two of the .• subjects—the general improvement
of the mates and seamen in the merchant navy, and the
present situation and prospects of the Merchant Seamen's
Fund —were closely connected; but as each measure em-
braced a great tunny of details he thought it would be more
satistactory to the house that he should make a distinct state-
ment on eacb. On the tint subject it would net he necessary
for him to detain the house at such great length se it the
subject had been entirely new; !or he had felt it his duty,
on the part of the government, at the cud of last session,
Lot merely to state the views he t ntertaiued upon this most
important subject, but to embody them in a bill, that they
might be circulated throughout the country daring the
recess. The bill he now proposed to introduce, though ma-
terially altered in many very important &tells, and in con-
'toluene of cominueications he had received from various
parts of the country, and he trusted considerably amended,
and the objections greatly diminished or abated—yet reposed
eel. vainly and fundamentally on the same priuci p'es he had
then endeavoured to urge, of the soundness of which further
reflection sad experience hid only convinced him. He was
bound to ri peat the belief he had expressed last session, that,
taken upon the whole, the merchant service of this country did
greatly suffer nom the not rrious incompetency and miseon-
duet of some individuals exercising the important charge o
commanding vessels, and entrusted with the care of the lives
as well as properties of their fellow subjects. (Hear.) That
was one evil he proposed to remedy. With this, the next head
of mischiefs was closely connected, namely, the want of
dtecipline in the crews, which prevailed to • fatal extent in
many portions of our mercantile main,. Unless a captain
and mate were fit to command a mercantile vessel, and such
men as might be safely armed with the necessary power of
to restrain the misconduct of the crew and check
evil practices, the discipline of the crews could never be in •
proper state. Lutly, much hardship and injustice was prac-
tised on the general body of seamen when they entered into
contracts engaging themselves in the maritime service, and
when they were discharged from that service. He would
now recapitulate the remedies he Disposed. The first was
to constitute a department of mercantile marine as a part of
of the Board of Trade, which should be responsible
to the canny and to parliament for the era-
perly ca.rying into effect the provisions of this bill,
d she uld e :wise a general superintendence over the
mercantile marine of the country. He also proposed to
establish • system of examination for masters and mates is
the merchant service ; then to make provision for the im-
provement 01 the condition and discipline of the crews ; and
lastly, to constitute shipping officers in lieu of the present
quern of licensed agents. First, as to examination, he pro-
posed to leave thus now engaged in the merchant service
tree toy :excise their calling without the necessity of under-
goii g any examination, believieg that it would be the
height of hardship and injustice to require that men who
had been brought up under a system perfectly different
should be depr.vsd of the yower of exercumg their calling
unless they would pass an c ximinatioc. The measure
would in this respect be wholly pronective, not retrospec-
tive. But it was most important to establish • system by
which no man should be allowed to undertake the serious

duty of commanding a merchant vessel, without its having
been asetrained, as far as it could be, by the previous ex-
amination of a competent authority, that he was not at any
rate grossly and completely ignorant of the duties which his
office required. He proposed that, for a captain or mate who
livislre..dy served in the mercantile navy, it should be sutli.
cleat tt, obtain a certificate that he had so eetved, which,
without any examination, should enable him to command a
vessel. But it a man having one of those certificates of ser-
vice should so grossly misconduct himself as to prove,
either from his moral habits, or utter ignorance of his pro-
fession, that lives and property could not safely be entrusted
to his charge—and that were established before the proper
authority—he would be deprived of his certificate, and not
allowed to exercise the calling of master or mate
in the merchant service. He proposed that a first-
class cert.ficate should be given to persons command-
ing firs:-class vessels, and another to persons command-
ing vessels of a smaller size. He proposed to have a second-
class certifisate tor the coasting service (which was • change
in the present bill), believing that there were many men,
with very little science indeed, who were yet perfectly fit to
command coasting vessels, though not proper persons to be
trusted with a vessel engaged on the long voyage. It was,
therefore, moat proper to keep the coastiug certificate distinct
from the other'. As to the second division of the subject,
the greatest evils existed in the manner in which seamen
executed their contracts with their employees, and in their
discharge on returning from a voyage, to prevent which the
system now in force had notoriowly and completely failed.
He was not seeking to establish, for the first time, a system
of interference between employers snd employed ; for the
system now in operation was one of interference, which had
been established from experience of the evils resulting from
a less degree of interference. In 1836, the right kon.
member for the University of Oxford (Mr. Gladstone) then
president of the Board of Trade, had brought in a bill
establishing the system of licensed agents, by which a con-
tract between the sailor and his employer must be super-
intended by some one licensed by the Board of Trade— to
prevent crimps and other persons of bad character from
rain hold of and inveigling sailers. That bill worked in
the °met unsatisfactory manner; for it was extremely diffi-
salt to find persons of sufficient character to be entrusted
with this very delicate operation. They had laid down and
were able to observe the rule, not to give these offices to
slop-sellers or publicans; but they could not help giving
them to lodging-house keepers, not finding a class of
re spectahls persons come forward to undertake these
offices. (Hear, hear.) The proposal he had to make was
essentially unaltered from that of last year, though
improved in some of its details. It was to establish, is the
various seaport towns in the country, shipping Akre, under
shipping officers, who, for a moderate lee—much less than
the sour now gave to the crimps, and not more than was
paid in those admirable institutions, the Sailors' Homes, in
Liverpool and London—(hear, hear)—should superintend
the contract between the sailor and the employer, explain
its provisions, and superintend all that related to the ship.
ping of seamen. In the same manner, on the return home,
the ship would be paid off in the shipping office, and the
officer would superintend the whole process. Last
session, be proposed that these shipping officers should
have the power of determining disputes been the sailor and
the employer, on the paying oft of ship, where the sum
was below a certain amount. Much objection had been
raised to that provision; and he propoeed so substitute one
which would be perfectly safe—only to allow the shipping
officer to decide disputes in regard to money, in cases
where both parties agreed to refer to his determinetien.
There was hardly a port in England or Ireland from which
he had not had repeated complaints, that in Quebec the
sailors eltserted in numbers, that they were utterly demo-
ralised, and the masters lost all power over them. This
state of things had continued till 1847, when the colonial
legislature passed an act establishing a public shipping office,
precisely on trie principles of those he sought to introduce ;
and two years' experience of the working of that system had
shown its results to be most satisfactory and encouraging. De-
sertion had fallen off one-half. In 1847, more than 3,000 sailors
had deserted in Quebec; in 1849, not more than 1,300 So far
from wishing to supersede the functions of such establishments
as the Sailors' Home at Liverpool, he had purposely intro-
dared • clause into the bill enabling the government to adopt
those Sailors' Homes, to make them their shipping offices,
and to apply the fees to the general objects of the institu-
tions. 0.. the question of the registry of seamen, he
proposed to take power to abolish the present sys-
tem of registry, not at once, but after pro-
viding some substitute for it ; and they proposed to
take power for engrafting it on the new msohinesy of the
Board of Trade and the shipping offices. He was more
strongly impressed now than last year with the necessity of
some ngistersd system; there were many things which
could hardly be done without some means of identifying
the seamen; and this would be particularly available for the
purpose of putting the Merchant Seamen's Fund on •
proper, satisfactory, and useful footing. On the subject of
advance notes, Ms views had undergone a material change
since he addressed the house on a former occasion.
Ile proposed to abolish all advance notes not payable in one

month. At present thlt were mvoirair tw
months. He believed that nothing could be worse than tea
present system, because the legal proem by which the
amount o thus advance notes was recoverable war so t, dip/is
and expensive that practically they were not r, erraratao
at
all. The coneiguenos was that the persons who lent 'nerdy
on them did so at a great risk end at a very usurious eatereq,
He knew of instances where 50 per cent. had been olritoed
;or strooey :rzt = advance notes.allear, hear ) H, eau Lot
prepared to abolish the system altogether, be cause he belielfd
it necessary that seamen shuutu cave ens 'posit', of ,tifit
money to buy their kit ; but as it was meat desirable to it
prove it, he proposed to make their advance notes recover.
able by legal process, which would enable the Staino .4
obtain money on raider terms, and to deal with a mare.
respectable class of persons than wa possible under :hi
present system. He now MSS to the third great
the subject, that relating to the government au)
discipline of the seamen. He believed that it,„
would go a great way to narrow) the di,a;piiie
of the crew, if they took security as to the moral ewria.
ter of the captains and masters. But hev.ng done all that
they could in that respect, be felt that *tine altetat.im
the present law was necessary, in order to secure au it.
proved discipline on board the merchant marine. The p,,.
visions in the bill of last year were sti l a.lh.red to is
its
present one. lie proposed still to give eato,;"
had obtained a Mu class certificate end Cal hr.....
class vessels the power of imprisonment I,r
offences. 1:11a general power of
now, but captains were afraid to erercio t it, , ..;
cues of mutiny, because even god ant Loma •e men
had ozonic. d the power in otter caste, had hien
great hardship and di-agreerble view geo on th,ir
logbook,returnhe, tie
pto. nt
toisnwhitmhbi c:oshut
the
ce containedunat
cYt.,
competentd inflicted,
ie
shouldathl me
tf iib7se°ltPTii,nt:ptii
*0 let
otthhrdseecrai.duct of the mast.r was proper or improper. 1...•
also contained various sanitary regulations, w;•:th h • , ;
not enter upon at that time. But he had also r, t.uc•
and importont provision in the bill of the pre ..•• ,
which he believed would produce a very -alytar,
Great inc ;nvenicnce had heretofore been Lit tr .re ,•,.
of competent authority to ..djudicote i ilistent ate
grave cases which might ari.e in the coa,
.;
voyage. He propcsAl, therefore, that rot :
to a consul or the commander of r
what he • euld call a naval court eh
to be composed of not more Chan ye
whom two were to lie captains of
and the others a justice of the aa, sul, au!
mender of a queen's ship, lle hoped :lug a
, kind might be safely entrusted with a pow, rot t1.1..1..• •
, cases et emergency, and it that was also the ~.pinion .
, house he ttuited it would correct the mi.chiet oti
from the want of any competent authority to deal ni...
case. Ha had also ustrouuced peevish,: 3 into the Li,. : r
purpttee of checking desertion. The right hon. gentleman
concluded by moving a resolwion on which to otiou
Mr. CARDWELL said that he would bey. ill los
t the spirit in which the right hon. gentlaman hs,i
e the measure, it he rose 1... r !he parpoie „
criticism upon it at that time. Ile would
• occasion, r, guest that the r• ght l.on. gstitii.men ,
e name a day for the second re..liog till St,. C:-.II*TV 1
- to form an opinion on the various prueirions the m.a-
- ------ • • • -• '

Mr. HUMS said that the bill miaht b. et
produce great mischief, according to the 1313 r yr :r,
its provisions were carried out. But he was cert.
with the abAition of the registration which I
found to answer to the rips etations which a•
from it. (Hear.) The right hon. geotlemai re
anxioue with regard to the edus•o'i,n of those •
sea. That wes a me et important of,j- ot, :a.."
well if the right hon. gentleman co:se:, !,
pediency of establishing chools for that
seaport towns.
Mr. RICAILDO begged to observe, in r.;.:v ts
fall, n from the hon. g• ntlemin uppesite • .11r C .
that if there was a single point on woe. ehv .
under a disadvantage in ecinp.sritan
countries, it was the notorious ancompe r
masters and seamen.
Mr. LABOUCHEILE said, that ample time ee
given to consider the previsions of Use
second rea.ing was tired. With referer,
had fallen from the hon. gentleman, the =unser ,•a•
he did not wish to encumber the bill with the
&tilt question of naval schools, but the I) -or I
would have the power of meeting those ,:sport
the inhabitants desired the formation of scl.
Leave being given to bring in the bill,
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he then had to a;,;-
subject which was one of great diffeulty, of • •.
he was fully conseicros, namely, the con iao . el
of the merchant seamen's fur d, and the measure
may be desirable to introduce in emenem thx.
begged to state briefly to the house what had 4•e.
history of the Merchant Seamen's Fend. It la
back as the year 1746, previous to which reri•ai
chant seamen contributed sixpence psi. month to Ci 7.
Hospital, from which institution they received
whatever, it beirg exclusively devote d to meat.. f
Royal Navy. (Ilene, hear) In 1746 some c t the
pal merchants and shipowners formed a company
an hospital similar to that of fireenwich, but wti,
be ahogetber confined to the use of members of the n.
marine. The government of the dayonoved by moti• es •
benevolence, and, doub:less, ittfueneed by the et.
occurred at that critical period of English history—.
the year succeeding tnat in which the ',relit rel.,.
Scotland took place—coneulted the feelings of the
this country, amongst whom great dissatisfaction ;
and
they finally co operated with the merchant, ins
owners in establishing the me reheat seamen's tat
same time passing an act of parliament :or its ite.or...
The object of the government and merchants :
the institution was to give to the members ot • - cisll
service that which the royal service already e. • s —a,
pital. (Hear, Lear.) They, accordingly, ple s i• 0
• an hospital, to give pensions and gratueuee •o • •
maimed, or diseased; and also to give pets. he :
widows and orphans of those sailors wno w, re
killed or drowned in the mercheLt seamen's serri,e.
were the objects for which the society was
(Hear, hear.) A power w s also elven to seecra. c..
thins, the main features of which was that ls. shoo,
paid by each captain, and 6i. by each sumo, --
the fund, in addition to what ti.ey alma.% p
with Hospital. (Hear, hear.) 'lle fund was sun, ra
most liberal contributions from the merchaute •
f
ibOrurttstt.
war never
vt,
heawenvdepi rvuto cae
receivede e
sr: .ndh
ruiatirge itt uonoann
.erciyhtsse •
ownersaccurate
des
e asno.t
funds,
recordsosl:b
tuehtab
eh
adet
cpbtreyitwrphil
ieuorrdoyee
hospital
ns
s
ced
betheirn
by -
However,prl
which no c-implaints were mink by the merchant s.
because the funds were dispensed for the relict of tL,
the maimed, and the nisabieed as alto for the relict :
widows and orphans of those who were drowned er 0..,
the merchant service, which diepersation of the Is .'e
in strict accordance with the rules of the society. li
Subsequently, however, a great change came over , •
tiun and management of the institution, until I. tee,,•
years 1820 and 1830, owing to an exchange of she; p.,
prietary from a higher tog more middling class. t.., •:
tiODI very materially fell off, when the state of the to:. :s
the cemplaints consequent thereon became such
1b33 a new act of parliament was passed, and which
tided the fund and its management at present. •
The principal provision ot the new act required e•
captains should each contribute two shillings in.te el
shilling per month, and each sailor one shilling erne
eizpenee per month, it being enacted that the
orphans of ell contributing members should be en*
pension. It was thought that by raising the cor.:r.l'e •
in that manner all classes could be supported by et, :
to that, as they might perceive, the constitution 0f
ciety was altogether altered. (liege. lie r.
to say that the funds under the new institution ha,: s.
gether failed ; that the institution might be said :.•
bankrupt, and that the pensions were ism& elute and zr.-•
unequal in several ports. No matter what the p.rt :c
the sailor resided, he contributed the same amount is
fund, whilst the pension he received is Lis old age vsrc
accordance with the tort in whica he had tient the pro .
five years of his existence; te that the dimestistortior. •
preseed by the sailer was laud, and in his (11r.Lshouchr,
opinion, most just. As an instance, he begged to Tel .
the house the names of four ports, and to state their :once:
as also the number of recipients in each port. k Hear. t.
In Liverpool the tonnage was 407,00 toes the re, .•
1,014; in Newcastle, the tennage was 311.000 tom -•
capients 2,680, or nearly three times what they ere
Liverpool. In Sunderland, the difference was v.:.
striking, for the tonnage there was l9l,othi hut, ••,
number o: recipients was 2.053 ; and in Wbitelise,r.
tonnage was 38,000 tore, and the recopientsuuli ; ,
hear.) That would show how unequal the les:, nils. sr
that the more they extended the port to lb 11. ell the wir..
reaorted in his old age the smaller the swat.-
pensions received be hint. For instance. ie _ t''...l
the pension was 71. 10.. ; in Liverpool,
Dundee, 61, per annum ; whilst he believed the
age pension in Newcastle was it. 165.; mid
haven 11. 10.. From Sunderland he had no return. a
~
deebted not the pension there war extremely low. At rte...
of the aggregate fund, the widows and orphacs
36,8001., whilst seamen peosioners tee. teed •••
18,0001. ; so much for the inequality ot the •
. ~!
sent system, and the way it werlecel
climes. (Rear, hear.) Ile next came to tle
wsss,
'
serious evil, which was—he could not use a mild, r ts.s
the absolute insolvency of the fund. The hove
collect that he bolore stated all private contribution'
ceased. It might therefore he coetidered os 5„te;••••,,..:
society, and examined be the principles applicsibld,,
With that test applied to it it was tor d
its
the fund was insolvent, as well upon the aggregate.
Or less upon all its parts However, ins nue Owes
were more or lees in a better and more prosperous.pcs
than in others. He was not willing to go into &tato
subject, and would only read the result that bad be,"
tamed on careful examination of the assets and
the Ist of December, 1846. The state of the whole
were, value of existing an 506,000/. ; inyesst,tr,
202.0001.; balance on hand, 29,0001.. nuking 20— ,
balance against that, 273.0001. In that poet
tb,
the funds under the corporation of
pewit:um were 162,0001. ; investments, 63,0001.: Irlarou7„,
hand, 187,0001 ; helium against, 107.0001. Is
fund the existing pensions were 344,0001.; in .t
148,0001. ; balance in hand, 20,000 f. bsiancetor....daltirh's
166,0001. (Hear,) He thought it only necus ery..
socstaiteetmye,nift
ltoeftthteohiwouself. to(eilheaibr,it
hear.)
earhlopoless pole i
ow ten.ta,l
etb,;
the ac'ri'un jar a
the President of the Bused
Ttthi°hinnegrsiol;fhutParhheonlhian.abutiad of
Tr
WI
introduced a bill to remedy this sons few years ego
ebentfo..ret,siisatiid,olif adsuscottrisscile:sle dmiaist

~d r.!

j-r: o'

p r tn-Jc:11