The Express.
London, England, 1861-02-07 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

110USZ OF COMMONS.—WEnmornaT, FEB. 6.
(Coetinued from yesterday's Repress.)
Lord J. RUKSELL'observed that his despetch of October
had Leers inhivoistruell Ly Mr. Fitzgerald. It was absurd to I
lay down a general rule applicable to all eases, and to place the
resistanee of peoples to their sovereigns in one and the
same category. Every case must ho judged by its own
merits. Instances had occurred, as in Greece and Belgium
—c see le.s tLignint than that of Italy—in which the inter-
ference of foreign powers had taken place, and been jos-
titled. He road soil defended the despatch of October, and,
after debuting some of the many provocations to resistance
given to the people of the Two &mhos, he thought it not
surprising that they should prefer to be under the sway of
a sovereign who, whatever his faults, had always been true
to ha people; and that the King of Sardinia was Morino' in
going to their assistance. The noble lord cautioned :
The hon. gentleman, towards the end of his speech, ob-
served that he would say nothing ea to the rights or
of the Italian question ; but the right,. or wrongs l'sfrwtt
Italian people form the whole subject-matter of the dis-
cussion. (Hey.) If the Italians have been right in their
revolution— if they have bees right in their insurrections—
they meat be approved_ if they and the people of Naples
were wrong, then they must be condemned for destroying
governments so excellent, so worthy of admiration and sup-
port, as those which have been subverted. (" Hear," and
a laugh.) With respect to what has been said of the Roman
States, if lam asked the question, I must say that I think
the temporal ride of the Pope did not provide for the proper
government of the subjects of that state. I cannot but see
in the Pope himself a sovereign of great ability, animated
by moat benevolent designs, warm-hearted, kind, a man
who has an Italian heart in his breast, and who, I believe,
feels for the Italian people. It remains for him now, and
more for him even than for the Emperor of the French or
the King of Sardinia, to du a great good for Italy. At the
commencement of his reign he showed, and showed meat
amply, his desire to govern his states in unison with the
wishes—in unison with the wants and the interest,, of his
subjects. I trust the feelings which prompted him to those
measures will again reign in his bosom. I do not at all
despair of seeing the Pope showing his sympathy with the
Italians, and, by some agreement with the King of
Sardiuia, who by the almost unanimous voice of the
Italians has been chosen to be their temporal ruler
—I do not despair that by some agreement with
him lie may continue to hold his authority as a
sovereign prince, and to have that homage paid which is
undoubtedly due to him even from those who are not mem-
ber. of the catholic church—(hear)—retaining all the spiri-
tual authority which belongs to him as the chief of a faith
professed by so many millions of people. It appear' to me
that the exercise of the spiritual authority of the Pope is
perfectly compatible with Italian independence ; and I
believe that now, at the close of his reign, if the Pope
should make such au arrangement by which his spiritual
authority shall be entirely preserved, and his dignity as •
sovereign prince shall be acknowledged, he will earn a
claim to be the first of Italian patriots—l should say first,
even preceding those who have done so much for Italy—and
a meed of gratitude from his country such as none of his
predecessors have ever been able to command. (Hear,
hear.) It has been repeatedly said by Roman catholic*, in
favour of the temporal sovereignty of the Pope, that that
temporal sovereignty was assumed in times of difficulty ;
that it was not sought for as an object of ambition, but
which the Pope—respected by the people of Rome, having
a single authority there which no other person possessed
had been asked, in order to preserve Rome and a great por-
tion of Italy from total anarchy, caused by the desertion of
the Emperors of the East and the encroachments of the bar-
barians of the North, to take into his own hands ; that he
look that power, perhaps reluctantly, and with no'.
object of temporal sway, but that he undertook
it in consequence of the necessity of the times ;
that the necessity of the times was urgent, and that even
in the course of centuries it has been useful, not only to
those belonging to its individual community, but to other
communities, that that power should be retained in the
hands of the Pope. The time, however, has come when it
as be no longer useful, and therefore, as that power was
assumed with no object of ambition, but for the general
good of Italy and of Christendom, so it might be laid down
new for the rod of Italy and Christendom. If the Pope,
taking that view, were to lay down his temporal power for
the good of Italy, I believe the whole of the nations of
Europe would admire the act of relinquishment, and con-
sider him cue of the greatest patriots of the age. (Cheers.)
The hon. gentleman has asked me my opinion in regard to
oar relations with France and other countries, bat I must
decline to enter into the particulars of relations which are
going on from day to day. He has asked me also • question
with respect to Syria. I can only tell him that the French
government have said, and I think not unreasonably, that
as it was at the request of Europe that tit./ Nat
their troops to occupy a part of Syria, in conse-
quence of the alarms which reached them and had reached
this country of the massacres at Beyrout and other places,
as that occupation was begun at the instance and with the
courant of the European powers it ought Dot to terminate
but at the instance and with the assent of Europe. (Hear,
hear.) They made an application for a conferees* upon the
subject, and although it may be said that • conference is not
• fitting body to determine that matter, and although such
an occupation nay cease without any danger to the people
of Syria and the Lebanon whom the boo. gentleman is will-
ing to protect, vet there is no unwillingness on our part to
said repreaentives to the conference. Our consent depended
op circumstaocea. We said we should go into no conference
at which • representative of the Sultan was not present, but
that if a representative of the Salton were sent we would
consent. The principal thing to be considered at that con-
ference will be what is in the first place the disposition of
the Sultan in respect of his own territory, because Syria be-
loop not to any power of Europe except the Salton, and no
conference can decide questions having reference to the do-
minions of the Sultan. It is not, therefore, unreasonable that
the powers in eouference should ask the representative of
the Sultan, " Hns the Sultan provided mews for preserving
tranquillity in Syria" and it will be impossible for the
powers of Europe—if the Sultan said, "I am unwilling to
undertake the responsibility of the continuance of the occu-
pation of foreign troops "—to wish to pros. the continuance
of that occupation. But this is • matter into which I will
art enter further. It is a matter of coaference, and our
ambissedor must of course bear what is rid by the ambas-
sadors of other powers. AR I can say is that I shall be
ready to inform the home what has been does at the
time in regard to our general relations with France.
Many quietism have been put by the hon. gentlerea• rued
by boo. gentlemen on previous occasions, with regard to the
policy or otherwise of maintaining • close alliance with
Frauds. Close alliances have been maintained with that
forties power since the time of Elizabeth and Cromwell.
There was another danger in the time of Elizabeth, which
still existed in the time of Cromwell, to the independence
of the various states of Europe. In the opiuion of those
great and wise sovereigns there was • danger far more for-
midable then any that bald arise from the preponderance
of Frans--I mesa the danger which arias from the perse-
cuting spirit and the ambition of Spain—and those great
sovereigns resolved to counteract that ambition, to meet all
the schemes of Spain for supreme dominion over Europe,
and, above all, to meet the danger of the extinction of the
protestant reformation, by looking to Francs as a counter-
poise to the ambition of Spain. That reason for an
alliance with France was at all events approved of by Sir
Robert Walpole,who during his time tensed, as I think most
wisely, • close connexion with France. Wtth whom, how-
ever, did he maintain that alliance? With Louis XV., the
must unambitious sovereign of Europe, sad Cardinal Fleury,
the most peaceable of ministers ; and I say that my noble
friend would be happy' to act the put of Sir Robert Wal-
pole, sad form an intimate oorrespoodenceaod alliance with
Fresco. (Cheers.) But theme days were not as the present.
(Hear, hear.) We must endeavour to do all that we can to
keep on the beat terms with France. We have this satis-
faction, that we have hitherto gained our object in the
maintenance of peace. All we ask is, that every power
should hold its own independently as at this time. We
ask no more than that. We have no projects of ambition
to gratify. We wish not to annex any country or any por-
tion of say country. (Loud cheers.) Therefore we have
always constantly maintained that principle. That
is an I can say with regard to our relations
with the Emperor of the French. (Hear, hair.)
The Emperor of the French knows also the value of peace,
and I trust that he will nut listen to the counsels of those
who tell him that the greatness of France would be pro-
moted by any projects of war or empire. It was the opinion
of the powers who entered France 10 1814, that for the
security of Europe France ought to be great, and ought to
be strong. She has increased in greatness and in strength
sines that time, her territory is enlarged, and her popula-
tion, manufactures, and industry have increased, while I
may say that the marks of her intellect are known and
appreciated throughout the whole of Europe and of the
world. (Hear, hear.) It appears to me that France cannot
better consult her intermit than by following the paths of
peace—(cheers)—and by maintaining that great and glorious
country in the possession which she now holds—posses ion
which we may not envy, but must all admire—possession of a
country containing a population as great as any country
con-
tained on the face of the globe. England and France must
act together, and I certainly do not share in the
@ions which have been expressed, that we are on =tr :1
a great commercial distress and danger. I trust that those
apprehensions are unfounded, and that peace and
may be preserved with all countries throughout =lt.
(The noble lord resumed has seat amidst the skiers of the
haus.)