The Express.
London, England, 1850-04-16 00:00:00

crease of *i.ee higher amount of duty. He stated when he
introduce d the bill, that he attended to proceed ea the ad
retire' principle. That was • principle us to which the
house, ii they chose, might amide against his. That was
the principle that he had carried oat, but what he wished to
state now genrall (Degauss it wee probable it miot remove
some apprehrensioye) wee the east ad the amide's.
The great objection was takes that Were, had' beam in-
troduced which erected doubts of raising mosey for
short loans on depceit of deeds and other securities.
He had cruet them out altogether, ell objections on that
ground had been remove. Objection was Mks. to the
charge on mortgagee. Tibet had been redeced. The duty
oat copyholds appeared to be of • higher amonat that that
of freeholds ; that had toss reduced. The duty on sur-
reader and assignineat oilmen had teen reduced. Settle-
ments in pursuance of articles had been exempted. The re-
ductions would be move conveniently taken on the schedule,
or on the bill as the matters arose in committee.
Mr. OOULBURN wished to state the objections he felt
to this bill. The right Me. gentleman had stated vary
correctly that he had attempted to introduce into the pre
sent bill • Rode of levying the stomp duties whisk had
sever been in any previous bill—es , an tqu al per esistege
on ell the transactions. That principle had never been
adopted. The right hon. gentleman had brought himself
into the difficulty, and if he proposed a graduated male of
duty, he thought the graduated sale might be made with
reference to the higher amount, rather than beginning at the
lower amount. It appeared to him that the only manner in
which they could give effect to a graduated scale would pro-
claim inconveniences. Take the question of mortgages. The
right hon. gentleman had introduced this measure ender the
belief that he was giving relief to what he supposed to be
the suffering part of the community—the landed interest.
In the present state of society the transactions of mortgage
on land or other property were to a very large amount.
Whoa they talked of 30.000 f., 40,000? , or 60.0001. lent on
mortgage, they talked of mattes which were those of every
day's occurrence, and which the expeti...nce of every day
showed were constantly takieg place, and taking plasm by
parties who were driven to the ace issity of mortgage, either
by circumstances of personal distress, or with a view to the
means raised by mortgage of laying the foundation of a fu-
ture fortune. Taking • mortgage of 60.0001, the duty,
which was before 26L, would now some to 2.54:11. (Hoar,
hear.) What would be the consequence of this? The
ingenuity of man would devise some means of ob-
taining a loan of money without the dispense of
• mortgage, and thus the revenue would be injured.
If they passed this bill, they would induce every lender of
money to obtale the greatest amount of interest that it was
pomiole for him to get, and would gine him the power of
maiataining it at such • high rata as to injure materially
any trader who may have dealings with him. Hs would
have the hours to believe that this bill would affect the interests
of the whole trading coMmneity. To some extent, no doubt,
right hon. gentleman had given as advantage to those she
persons who borrowed money for short periods.
However, if the made the duties so extremely
heavy on those larger roam they would oblige those
genies who were in the habit of borrowing to • large
amount to resort to other m ides of getting money. He
siocluded by °berretta that, in his opinion, these were
matters of considerable importance, and were well worthy of
considerati.in. . . .

Mr. MULLINGS, in stating the objections which he took
to this bill, said that he did not is. that it contained
any provisions which would repeal any of the
' clauses of the act passed in the reign of George the
Fourth which regulated the transfer of mortgages. He con-
sidered that the duties on such trusfers should be put is the
same category as those to which this bill referred. If they
rep.aled the stamp duty on leases for cite year, it was no
I:nger nee .ssary with roped to conveyances. He did not
me, in such cases, that tuts bill contained any provision for
the production of deeds. The objections made by the right
bon. gentleman who bad just sat down, u regarded mort-
gages, ware well worthy of oonsieration. He wished,
however, that the right hon. gentleman had not
confined his objections to that part of the mat-
ter wh'.ch related to mortgages on land only,
but had extended it to mortgages on money, railway
dtbentures, and a variety of mortgages. B inete and warrants
Hof attorney, which were alto referred to by the right hon.
gentleman, were now subjected to a very large duty.
He concluded by remarking, that a reduction of the ramp
duty in the matters to which he rePrred moult, instead of
causing a decrease in the revenue of 300,0001., produce an
increase to that amount. . . .

Mr. ROUNDELL PALMER wished to ask whether, if
this bill were passed, such societies as building mieties, in
which large sums of money had been invested by various
classes of society, would be exempted trots steno duties.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he was afraid that he we. out of order to making an ()bur-
-1 cation, but he thought that it would be better for them to
go into committee. Several gentlemen had put questions to
him, and be thought that it would be very inconvenient for
him to isomer them just then.
Mr. HUME said that h whited to know whether the
prpor.iva of duty charged on large sums of money was
greater than on small sums.
Mr. HENLEY complained thlt th y were asked in the
absence of all information on the subject to come to a decision
on it. He thoutht that they should I.ot so !denly create an
ad valorem scale of dutirs without any information before
them to enable them to judge whether they were going to
increase or to reduce the taxation by to doing. If the Cnan-
eellor of the Exchequer c 'emoted to forego for the present
300,00 W. of rev,nue, he ought to b.- able to show them whe-
ther by making such a remission he will get a larger or a
smaller sum back. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. SA DLEIR said that he could not conceive that any
mousse was over submitted to this house which involved
que-tione more difficult for consideration or csospri.ing pro-
voions which affected 90 many interest, throughout the kixr
dim. He would ask the house t sconeider the circumstances

under which they were now asked to burry into (vitamin,'
on this bill. They would well rereirmher the deelarati on of
the right hes. gentleness the Chancellor of the Eachequer,
that he was abut to propose an alteration in the duties
which would operate em a gnat and substantial boon
to the landed interest of the kingdom. That declaration was
followed by a bill which was new, he war glad to say, a de-
tract abortion. That was a bill which proposed to anima
the strop laws of this country. Terry had no laws which
were sore unwise, or meterain in their effect, or produced
man hardship and litigation. A motion was made in the
year 1836, to introduce a scheme similar to th it which was
embodied in the fleet bill to which he was allu ting, sad em.
braced all sons of property. The whale scheme was obliged
to be abandoned on ecconat of this lolls Acious attempt
to tax everything p-asible. He complained that after
so long a period an eff on should he m du to induce the'
House of Consmens to adopt • similar principle, and that
hoc gentlemen should be obliged to watch and see that the
government did not introduce and carry such objectionable
measures. Taking into account the mixed considerations of
commerce, agriculture, and law, it was unfair of the go-
venetian to ask men of bu'iness to come to any decision on
the subject without furnishing them with come information as
to what the effect of the bill would be. He wished to know
how this bill proposed to deal with the large masses of deeds in
this country, and what provision showed the amount of steam
duty that should be imposed on a deed nudely stamped alter
this bill should come into operation. He thought that,
the right boa. gentlemen had stated that it was not proposed
to impose any duty en any deed or writing which was'
not at nresent Fable to duty. The right hon. gentleman
should well know that there were no laws which were so
systematically evaded as the stamp laws. In the first plate
they dare not enforce them, because c mmerce and trade
would be brought to a stand still thereby. He hoped that
the house would be careful lotto infuse iuto this bill any of
the obj.c.ionable principles to which he had alluded. It
was true that the right hon. gentleman said that it
was his intention to reduco the stamp duties on
small transactions and to increase them on large
transactions. But what was the right hon. gentleman's
notion of • small and a large transaction / Ile regarded the
suns of 1,0001. as a large transaci in, and subjected it to a
high and increasing rate of duty. With reference to searches
nothing could be more monstrously enormous than the stamp
duties, and showed great want of consideration and pract.cal
knowledge on the part of those who introduced this measure.
With marl to the g e 1 principle he thought it exceed-
ingly unjust that pure personalty should hi charged with
the same stamp duties as real proper y, and far this reason,
that transfer in personalties occurred much more frequently
than transfers of real property, and therefore the eapsse
was much greater than it should be if the proportions were
properly obeerved. Again, in matters of pure personalty,
they had very heavy probate ar.d legacy duties, an additional
argument against rendering it liable to the same camp duty
as real property. He came now to the cue of redeemable
inanities, and be asked why were they to be charged a higher
rate of stamp duty than mortgage transactions. A redeem-
able annuity was, I. fact, a mortgageatLcted by a tenant for
life who, being anxious to raise money for improvements,
could not adopt the usual plan of in mirage. It was, in
fact, the tenant for life's mortgage, and he put it to the
house whether in the present bill an opportunity should not
be taken to put both on the bete, footing. An omission he
also regretted in tee bill was, that no attempt was sada to
set at rest those divesting doubts which the present state of
the stamp duties created as to the rivhts of p denies. He un-
derstood that the intention of government in proposing the pre.
sent bill was to 000 fer • boon upon the landed interest, and
therefore he wished them to introduce a clause declaring every
deed stamped before the passing of this bill to be duly and le-
gally stamped. He urged this upon the govern ment,becanse no
man could contend that a piny who went to the expense of
stamping • deed at all meditated felted. The meths who
evaded the law were the great commercial interests who
effected their transfen of 60,0001., so.m., and 100,0001.
without the intervention of a stamp, and not the
mast who inadvertently, or through a necessary ignorance,
had ratified his transaction with an improper stamp.
The homes then went into committee on the bill.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that,
in rising to address the committee, ba merely wished to yam
that he bad never expressed any reluctance to hear objets-
time on the bilL Whin asked, on • fanner evening, to
postpone the bill, he bed refused to do so, not because he
objected to disunion, bat because he cionrilired the oh
jeettioas started meld be bog disposed of in committee.
What his had eb4eesed to was that gentlemen should have
asked kiwi questions white he was not then in a condition
to answer. Now, with regard to a great number of Oen-
time which had bean raised, they referred to different
classes of the bill, and different parts of the nhedules;
sad he thought that the more consistent Mine
would bs to answer those questions as they arose.
At the present mousse ha would only trouble the house with
three a foes genus/ eisservetione. It was nut true that in
introdue:ng the mesons Pie had said that hr was introducing
• bill fur the relief el all property, what he had said was
that the altaseris world be a relief in 1411 trecieeti.ete of smell
amount, otht tbst he provsed to indemnify himself by rais-
ing a larger anoint of duty on larger Instruments.
Tint statement Bossed to have met with g 1
approval, and he had further stated that he proposed