The Express.
London, England, 1850-02-01 00:00:00

Earl FITZWILLIAK (who woe very indietiactly heard)
was uaderstsod to urge that at the prceest mores%
for the Chase*llor of the Excheqo to think of prop:Wog
a duty ow tars of2e., 11c, or 6.. • quarter, was as

bility, end even if it '
were not impossible, those who we
agitating on the plan which the noble duke (Richmond) s..
strenuously advocated, would have rendered it so. Why
should agriculture be now protected when all our great
manufacturing interests were exposed to unlimited compe-
tition ? (Hear.) the *But of the first m cures of Sr Rthert
Peel, whisk preserved protection, was to induce the egrieml.
turista to suppose that the ge price of corn would be
G 6.. a quarter, and is the commutation of tithes that price
was generally essumed as the average. It therefore, in coo-
tracts between landlords and tenants it was assumed that
66s was to be the avenge price, and be made the basis of
their ealculations, and the average was reduced to 605., or
415., er 40t., it was the necessary consequence that rents
must be dread, and in fact be lowered in Iproportion. This
was the utmost extent of the calamity to be apprehended,
although be was aware that the reduction must be
somewhat more in proportion than the exact dimi-
nution of the price. But still he doubted whether
ultimately the landlord who now reduced his rents would
suffer by the decrease in price. As to the present price, it
was owing to a great variety of causes—among others, to a
superabundant harvest. (Hear.) There had been an
abundant importation of corn, bat that had been caused by
the great di tress which prevailed in the two or three years
previous, and which induced merchants t 3 import. He wtald
say that it would be most unwise to deceive the country
again by any recurrence to protective measures ; he said de-
ceive, because it was in ernaequence of those former measures
of protection that the arrangements had been made between
landlords end tenants to which be had alluded.
The Earl of WINCHILSEA said it was impossible for
say man to think of the inundation of foreign corn into Ulla
waste, and not foresee the destruction of its agricultural
claws. He would undertake that, before very long, foreign
con could be purchased here at dl).. per quarter, and what,
then, meat be the condition of the farmers of England ?
It was impossible for an Hellish farmer to produce wheat
under 60... a quarter, upon an average, era how
could he shaping with the foreigner ? He was very
glad to hear the noble earl opposite, her Majesty's Chief
Commissioner of Woods and Forests, openly avow what the
fiche p and intentions of the government were. The
landed proprietors and agriculturists, at least, might infer
from the noble earl's speech what the determination of
government was. Toe noble earl plainly said that the sup-
porters of free trade would not retrace their steps, and that
be, kr one, would not recommeod the government to do ter.
The agricultural interests were reduced to the deepest dis-
tress by the abolition of protection. They Lad embarked
their 'spits' and applied their industry for years in the catti-
est/on of land, the produce of which was protected, and the
withdrawal of that protection necessarily br..ught ruin upon
every one connected with land in this country. To such a
state were agricultural pursuits reduced that lamas
could he had almost for nothing. He looked upon
the speech prepared by her Majesty's ministers
GM an i• cult to the agricultural interests, and he woe certain
the yeomanry, and people in general, would he et a Umber
They were not so blind as to be incapable of
demeanding the manifest object of the lepalature, and they
would express their opinions plainly, as it was their constitu-
demal privilege. They had reason to complain. of a severe
gleMethim, wad they had a right to yawns their opiurons
wen the subject. There never was greater distress amongst
tic agricultural labourers then at the present time, and
hitherto they had been employed out of the capital of the
landlords and deupiers of land. How was it passible to
withhold relief from that large class whose Meteors was
hourly increasing?
Earl GRA.NIFILLE said it was a matt, rof satisfaction to
And that there was some difference in the largos"e used in
that house and that which was use 1 in different parts of the
country. The proposed amendment, which was very vague,
entirely omitted even an allusion to any es-seance 'retch the
opponents of free Ueda would be inclined to adopt it any
theme should take place. It appeared from th,. speeches
delivered that twists, that the cppositton to free trade was
eonlined to those elude who were immediately interested in
igristilture. Those clews Included the landowner, the
occupying tenant, the labourers enraged in agricultural
pursuits, and the inhabitants of some of the smaller towns in
purely agricultural districts perhat s might ho added. There
was no doubt that some alarm end panic existed in these
small towns. The tradesmen were assured by their cus-
tomers, who were prim-4)41y tenant farmers, that their
situation was ruinous, and that they were no longer capable
of being good customers. Their lordships were aware
that the increase of population in the manufacturing
districts was greeter than the increase of persons em-
ployed in agricultural pursuits. It was clear that any step
taken to injure the manufacturing districts must
bear noon the agricultural labourers likewise. No
doubt recent changes had dosed a transition
which inflicted - •to some extent. In some in-

injury so
stamen farmers heal not sufficient skill or capital to eulti. gneland. (Hear, ....Re.) When they scald get labium
mite their terms. They might now turn their attention to for 8.1. they gave them Is. (Hear.) And yet this was the elms
occupy smaller fume, as being more suitable to their skill who were exposed to so much obloquy, and who were tad
and capabilities. That was another of the advantages whirls that they must reduce their rents. Reduce their recta l
bee trade would confer. No ore would state that withal- He certainly did not reduce his rents in Ireland—(laughter)
Mire in trig country was now approsehlog even to a Mate of —hut, although he war lot supposed to be a harsh or illiberal
perfection. If Femoral improvements were introduced by landlord, it was his full Intention when asked for his amount
the operation of tree trade, no doubt we cluld compete with of income-tax from his property there to return " oil "
the foreign enterer of cam. The next question was as (hear, hear)—becsume he could aver, ma his word of honour
to the IRedlords, and it certainly was wholly a as a gentleman, that for the last 18 mouths he had not m
question of rent. No one on his (Earl Gran- cured a single shilling. (Hear, hear.) Yet for some years
trills's) side of the home dented ttist the he had been in the habit of expendiag one•third of his yearly
engsweets of free trade had a perfect right to discuss the rental anon it, and it contributed, he was happy to say, bat a
itertion and express their opininos. The only question was small number of paupers to the workhouse. (Hear.) But
wlssdier the protectionists had met together to attain an ob nsvertheleas between a third and a fourth of his property was
Vshaily practicable. Es should not dimouraire farmers thrown upon his hand., because he could not get tenants is
making each efforts se they thought fl.; ft opposed occupy it. (Hear, bear.) Let it not be supposed that this
howevsr to him that the aceaunts given of the isposethility was bad laud, for 28 tons of turnips, statute acre, were
of getting rents, &e., was exaggerated. He did not believe grown on it. This was far from being an extreme case in
the land of this country was over rented, or that the Ireland. (Haar.) It was with regret that be assented to the
rate should be redtmfl. He war earn the people of asendatent of his noble friend, because he wee unwilling to

di tart that nunissity with which he wished to see the
speech from Prose summed; but, in justice
to those istereets *MU were suffering so musk he
could not resist supoeting the temperate sad mo-
derate amendment which was so moderately sad taupe-
reedy, and ably moved by his Noble friend. (Hear, hear.)
Ner hie noble Mend nee himself *eked them to re-
Mme their steps, though he believed that • ennui of
materate protective duties was for the built of all
amen of the community. (Hear.) He had hie opinions
en that subjest but he would aot press them cia that
caseelou. He believed that the two propositions contained
in his noble friend's amendment were undeniable, namely,
that the prriestari:ulteral distress was mainly mord by
the resent • , and that the legal beans pressed
unequally unfairly on the real property of the soutry.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that, after the speech
of the noble lord he felt himself called upon to touch,
not only upon the matter more directly before the house,
but en those topics also of her Melody's speech to which
the noble lord had 'dueled, but were not immediately
connected with the question at hue ; and, la the Ins
place, he could not help deriving some consolation from the
fact that, out of the various Wks of that truth, only one
was found at which it bed been thought necessary to take
exception. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord began by
saying that he wee surprised her Majesty had been only
advised to declare that she was at peas and amity with other
nations, and he seemed to discover some inconsistency be-
tween it and the following paragraph. He begged to tell the
noble lord that it was by no means necessary, when parlia-
ment was about to meet, that foreign governments were
to write to them giving them assurances of friendly
relations, in order that it might be announced
here. But, whatever might be the opinion of
the noble lord, he could affirm that the statement
made in her Majesty's spec-k was strictly correct, and with
respect to Russia he timid UM* him that they were not
only at peace, but even to salty with that country, end if
the noble lord chose to inquire, he cruld obtain a confirma-
tion of that assurance from the distinguished individual who
represented Russia in this country. (Hear, hear.) The
noble lord then referred to the navigation laws. On this
head he would inform the noble lord that the reciprocity to
which he attributed so much value had been obtained now

even lathe short space of hall a year, to an extent which the
most sanguine hopes of the government could not have antici-
pated. Even those states which they thought wield have shown
the least disposition to reciprocate—the United States,
Sweden, and even Holland, though the arrangements were
not yet completed with that state, had shown a desire to
meet the views of this country, and to enter upon a more
enlarged system of navigation laws. With respect to the
amendment before the house, the noble lord said that her
Majesty had alluded with coldness to the distress which
masted generally amongst all clauses of the community except
the manufacturing class. Now, whea the noble lord said that
this distress was shared in by the rest mass of the com-
munity or even by the agricultural clam at large he met the
noble lord with the assertion that throughout England the
condition of the labourers was better. (Hear, hear.) He
did not state this for the purpose of making an odious
contrast between any classes of the community, which were
too frequently made ; but he met the noble lord with that
assertion, because he was convinced that the interest of the
labourer was ultimately identified with the owner and eulti-
, water of the land, and that neither benefit nor
injury could be done to the one without at
the same time benefiting or injuring the other. (lieu.)
What were the proofs and arguments for eacertainiog the
state of the poor and of society in general. First of all the
poor rate. Now, taking any day in the year 1640, and
comparing it with the year 1848, there would be found a con-
siderable diminution in the number of able bodied persons
receiving relief. (Hear, hear.) If the condition of the
labouring class was so bad, would it not
show itself in diminished consumption? But what is the
fad? Take tea, which might be considered as an article of
luxury to the poor man. During the last year there was an
increased consumption of 3,000,000 lb.. beyond any former
year. It was the same with regard to other articles, and dad-
tee had somewhat fallen off the UNTO led consumption of cocoa
made up for it. (Hear, hear.) He would go farther and
say that not only bad an increased consumption taken place,
but, without venturing to prophesy too boldly, he would
say thatit was increasing, or about to increase, and bakes
much time had elapsed would increase much se re. (Heir.)
His noble friend made &Husks to commerce, and it was his
(the Marquis of Lansdowne's) opiniou that their commerce
could not increase without benefiting the proprietors of
land in this country. The exportation of this country had
increased to the amount of ten millions. The noble lord
opposite may say that some of their exports went to
India. Well, and what if they did ? Could any
body deny that a very large quantity of them were
consumed in the United States. The export of their
initnu.sefures could not but serve the landlord in the
end. (Hear, hear.) He objected to return to their old
policy on the ground Oat no scheme of the kind suoseeded
elsewhere, and because it had been is failure in this country.
The landed interest opposed a fixed duty when they might
have had it; thinking at the time that the eliding scale was
the great principle by which they were to be protected. The
noble marquis then quoted from a report made by a com-
mittee on the sliding scale in 1835, which stated that the
effect of the sliding scale, with regard to the egrecultu-
Hata, was their savings were gene, their credit had failed,
and their resources had been exhausted. This was mid when
the favourite scheme was adopted. The egriculturists should
remember that they were not the only body who bad to
coupe.e with the foreigner. Those who addrcs ed the agri-
culturists should recommend them to make some exertion to
compete with the foreigner instead of advising them to come
to parliament seeking for relief. But what after all is the
relief which is proposed to be obtained by parliament. Was
it a fixed duty ? The noble lord opposite seemed to imply
that it was, but he did not seem to advise his followers to
that effect. In the speeches which had been made in
favour of protection, he could find nothing but generalities.
The Duke of RICHMOND here said that what was sought
by the farmer was protection to all sorts of industry in this
country.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he was glad to
bear from the Noble I)uke what their object was. He would
be as frank with the Noble Duke as the Noble Duke had
been with him. There was a time when he thought that a
fixed duty was the best way to meet the necessity that then
existed, but when that proposition was made, it was sec-
casolully resisted by the Noble Lord (Stanley), and that
opposition placed the country in a position whisk
compelled them to determine between a sliding stele
or no duty on corn at all. He could not say whether the
farmers were or were not grateful to the noble lord fat
having driven the country to this alternative. He wee glad
that the sense of the house was appealed to in this instance,
because he thought that the sooner the public were enlight-
ened with regard to the impossibility of returning to the
old system of protection the better it would be for them.
He was of opinion that the prosperity of one portion
of the community could not continue without affecting the
rest, and it was the consuming power of this country that
enhanced the interests of all classes. He was not new pre-
pared to go back to their last policy, and he believed
that if this amendment should by any chance be carried, the
mover of it would find, that when the question came to he
pressed further, he would be deserted by most of those who
now supported him. The noble marquis concluded his
observations by calling the attention of their lordships to
the fact that the efficts of the repeal of the navigation
laws were exhibiting themselves in a manner which
was most advantageous to this country. There was
scarcely • port in England in which there were not more
ships building than at any former period; and, more me-
, daily, he would allude to Sunderland, which must be con-
, sidered the grand emporium of the shipping trade.
The Duke of BEAUFORT said that, in spite of what the
, noble marquis had said, he could not help thinking that
theme's much distress in the country, when he fount large
bodies of labourers, who wen willing to lab..ur, seeking for
L work or relief, and unable to obtain either. With regard to
. the statement which had been made with respect to the de-
crease in pauperism, there was no question that it had arisen
. from the practice of giving labourers who were able-bodied
I men 4s. for working three days, in order to keep them out
I of the workhouse.
Earl GREY said that he had been represented as having
said that be raised his rent when the corn laws were repealed.
What be said was that when the corn laws were repealed,
he considered that his land was increased in value. That
opinion he adhered to. Ir. his mind the lund must increase
in value while the manufacturing interest was in • prop.-
lOUs state.
Their lordships then divided.
For the amendment—Present 6O
Proxies
Present
Proxies

Apintt the

Majority against the amendment 49
The bowie than adjourned, at • quarter alter one, till
Monday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—THURSDAY, JAM. 31.
In consequence of a refusal on the part of the official in
attendance to open the doer of the reporters' gallery until
about 10 minutes after 2, it is impossible to state what in, m-
berm assembled for the purpose of accompanying the Speaker
to the House of Lords. At the time mentioned the Speaker
returned, but an adjournment till a quarter to 4 having been
previously arranged, the members left the house without re-
aiming their seats.

The Eirraxin took the chair at a quarter to 4.
The following new members took the oaths and their
pats:—Mr. D. A. Pelham, for Boston; Mr. J. F. Stanford,
CT Reading ,• Kr. J. Brat, for Kidderminster ; Kr. W. J.
Evelyn, for West Surrey ; Col. Chattertoo, for the oily of
Cork; and Lord A. Lennox, for New Shoreham.