The Express.
London, England, 1861-04-26 00:00:00

THE 'EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 26, 1861.

14ALLION

Mr. 1104'190165askail the Qin ..I;aFitheriss Bill would
core I,fore Wbitauntide.

sir t' LEWIS mini the parlimoent.ory draftsman was
a good deal Mullioned just now with the preparation of
Man,' hlll4 ; but this was one of the bills in his charge ;
it lo.al hero begun, and would be spoedlly prepared.

thins about laying off the debt, and they said there were
Exchequer Bonds felliogdue next sear; but there were noue
falling due in the, ',ear, and he was not aware
that it was the practice of parliament to make provision for
the payment of debt to fall due in future years.
Did the right honourable gentleman the member for Bucks
redeem his Esehequer Bonds! (Hear, bear.) In itGit the
right boo. geutleman in hie last budget had an expenditure
of 64,000,0U0f. to provide for, and the whole taxation of the
country was 63,000,0011 L or 64,000,000(.; but he borrowed
2,0;10,0001. to pay off Exchequer Bonds—(hear, hear)—and
he postponed the payment of them. (Hear, hear.) He
(Mr. U. Gibson) always thought the remission of excise
duties was a conservative reform, and be was surprised to
hear honourable gentlemen opposite argue and raid the
abolition of this tax with all that kind of heat and spirit
which belonged to • party debate. (Hear, hear.) The
old tradition of the conservative party was that they were
against excise duties, and they said take off the duty on
house manufactures, and let native industry be developed ;
but keep it upon foreign imports. (Hear, hear.) The
right honourable gentleman the member for Bucks and Lord
Derby had repeatedly referred to the great evils of the
excise system, and how injuriously it affected the manufac-
ture of paper; and they had stated that which he knew to be
quite true, that it was not a manufacturer's quake, but
that it affected equally the agricultural and commercial
interests of the coutitq.,
(Cries of "Oh, oh," and " Hear,
hear.") He contended that the repeal of this duty would
enable the British farmer to dupers of at a profit the refuse
of his agricultural produce, and foe which he could now
get nothing. (Hear, hear.) The question was • moral
one both as to employment and labour and the mills which
existed in country districts. (Hear, hear.) He would
ask whether there were no mills in BUckinghamsbire and
Hertfordshire, and which had been closed by the operation
of this excise system ? He believed this was • landed-inte•
rest question just as much as it was • commercial one.
(Hear.) The bon. member for Inverness•hire (Mr. &Elie)
said the repeal of this tax would benefit no one but a few
peony newspapers and some cheap literature ; but the hon.
member was on • former mamma the advocate for an ex-
tension of knowledge and the repeal of this tax ; for when
he (Mr. Gams) some years ago moved • resolution, "that
whereas all taxes which directly impeded the diffusion of
knowledge were highly injurious to the public interests and
most impolitic as • source of revenue, this house is of
opinion that such financial arrangements should be made as
would enable parliament to provide for the repeal of the
excise duty upon paper." He (Er. Gibson) put the lllSitar
upon the ground of benefit to the cheap htentare of the
country ; and he had the honour of receiving the vote of
the hon. member for Invernessalore—(hear hear)—and
now he CAMS down to the house and said he wouldi not vote
for the repeal of the paper duty because the only people
who would be benefited by this repeal would be these
literary persons ; and yet those were the very persons for
whose benefit he voted for the repeal of this tax on a former
occasion. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. RAILLIE explained. I said if them were a bona
Ede honest surplus, I should have no objection to vote for
the repeal of the tax ; but, I sad I did not believe there
was any surplus whatever. (Rear, hear.)
Mr. GIBSON said be bed rebated to the hon. gentleman's
words, but as his a:Fanatics termed upon the question of
surplus, sad if his vote depended upon the question between
=sad tee, he (Mr. Game) was certain the bee. gen-
would vete far the of the totower.(" Hear,
repeal bear," sod laughter.) He (Mr. Gibson) must de-
an to ester into the ocesideration of prospective bud-
gets ; bat this be would say, that it was in vain to argue
that • repeal of the excise duty on paper would necessarily
be a total sacrificed its Jield to the exchequer. (Cheers.)
&valence showed that the reverse of this we. the truth.
In no case where they bad repealed as wage duty, bad it
been found that they had lost as equal amount of revenue.
The repeal of an excise duty must bring a great deal of
labour into employment, it mud produce • urger circula-
tion in tads it must ineIVISO commerce. (QM.) Thus
in various ways the revenue would be recouped it. on-
gloat loss. Under all these circumstances, there being no
substantive amendment before the house, he did trust the
home would allow tar goverumeut to ggoo into committee.
These resolution bed been well ; and viewing
the scheme as a whale, be believed it was • proper and
adequate mode of provnßag for the financial necessities of
the year, whilst it gave remission of taxation in those direc-
dome where it would prove meet bandidal to the intonate
of the countrg. (Cheers.)
Mr. BALL wished the right hon. (oede-
ma would torn his attention for once only to the
agricultural Interests of the country. There was
no great article of oossamplice upon which the
revenue pressed iro beavib. m vas malt. (Haar,
bear.) The result wee that hurtful and deleterious sub-
sidiser were need in the mandadure, end a smaller
ratity al malt and hops or used la meWag beer. But
miOt further r refer to the experiment' al . Hodson,
• farmer of great experiamos and EMI, who had proved by •
said al experiments that, beyond eII in compedeg
the resela al bey, maid wended , cattle fattened
with barley deal yield • pada ot M. us over the net.
If they wasted mine to reduce the paper duty, they bad
only to levy • •small oat •ea foreigs eons which would ant
be felt by the Foglish corner, bat by the foreign pro-
ducers ; and the same might be dose a the case el masa-
&tared commodities. He regretted that the t hon.
gentleman had not, in that reemrkeble courtaMp some
which every one remembered, instead of hie "two fair
damsels," turned his attention to the ulturiets. (A
I laugh.) Gladly would they have his solicitations.
Vartrit not have been an rempent—(laughter) —so
as his other loves, but they would have ban
wee sedate, more constant, and more re able. That was
the dais, however, which had been most trampled on and
most neglected by the right he.. gentleman.
Mr. MARSH said he should support the right hoe. war
men, whose voice had been so often raised in favour of civil
end religious liberty, sad which now declared for the liberty
al trade sad the benefit of the onsumer.

Mr. "ARAM said that when he went mow his
constituents he was afraid they would oak him
why he indirectly supported a budget which appeared to
them very isjurious sod very immisistent. How was be to
give a satisfactory reply to suck a inertias? There was •
very general desire that the objectscrable taxes me tea sod
sugar should be repealed ; but if • motion were mule that
the paper duties should Ds retained until a morefitting time,
he would gladly support that monies.
Yr. REACH thought that the warm proposed for the
Sauna of the ensuing year wee aat • wise, just, or prudent
OM&

Mr. DUTTON thought that with mud to the paper
duties the rightiliztleman bed hardly any other course
Hum left him to those dutieu The government pro-
position was in aced without any lingering feeling of
uwitation, and he thought the house would do well to accept
it in the wine spirit, and par the budget as a whole. (Hear,
hear.) At the ma Mine ha ehrinkl be glad to see the malt
tax taken off, as it premed heavily on the agricultural
(stored.

Iiord—INGESTRE said that, representing as he did a
imp constituency, be felt it his duty to advocate the re.
mission of the tea and auger duties rather then the=
et the duties on paper. If it should be proposed, that
of the repeal of the paper duties another penny should be
taken a the income tax or a remission made in the tea and
NI/Or duties, that motion would have his hearty support.
Mr. PEASE thought the statement of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer wee sound, true, sod honest.
Mr. HORSFALL would not enter into the question of
whether there was a surplus, for be might leave the respon.
sibility of that to the government. But the house had
something to do with the approplation of a surplus. They
should make a distinction leideresa ordinary and extraor-
dinary taxes. The former were theme which had existed along
time as an acknowledged seam of the revenue ; the latter
were those which had base Wilts to MONK the extraordinary
exigencies of the elate. The paper dirty must be put in the
former elms, while be mould not bat ekes with the latter
both ear 11•011100111 femme tax and the increased
duties on tea and eager. Then, in orwanica honesty, the
latter should be but removed. He had bees for twelve or
fifteen years as advocate of the repeal of the paper duty ;
but only when *we should be a marplae heaths ordinary
taxes of the ocundry. (Hear, bear.) Another part of the
taxation he mud allude to, which the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had called the minor taxes. To the mercantile
community these were most vexatious and annoying Wes.
One of them he would mention was the peony tax on im.
mute. He had had sent to him from a constituent of his
a Lege paper of 18 octavo pages, • return which that pi:i-
deates was obliged to make to the Custom.liouse every
=toto his very greet inconvenience. Direct and indirect
had been compared, and he feared it might be longer
Wore the Chancellor of the Exchequer could do without
either sort of taxation, but he ought rather to levy those
lame which were leasteensibly felt.
Mr. VANBITPART must admire the radiant eloquence
and marvellous dexterity of the right hun. gentleman 'a
but must regret that be had determined to retain
speck,
war duties on tea and sugar, and keep an extra penny
on the Moms tax, in order to propitiate the hoc. member
for Memingluun by abolishing that duty on paper, which
wee one smelly collected, and improving in value every year.
at Looking the state of foreign affairs, awl our own ember-
nerments at hease,lse thought it a very reckless proceeding.
Mr. BAZLEY thought the budget was one of singular
one showing great sagacity, and doing justice to
re.,=. By taking a peony off the present income tax,
ft relieved the wealthy and middle classes, while the repeal
of the paper duty would be • peat benefit to the iodustrious
poor. He wee glad that his friends in Manchester had held
an important gerbils, meeting and petitioned the house in
favour of this WgM. Nothing could be more acceptable
to the peat body of the people, to whom it was • very great
boos.

Major HAMILTON would tell • dory, 'if he might one
the Scotch dialect of oar Loguage in the House of Com-
tism,. An boa. member, whose beaming face he was happy
to use opposite him now, west down to see his constitueots
• short time ago, and told them bow he had given his sup-
ped to the government, and to the pliant Premier who
defended the rights of Omst Britain so well. The hon.
member was cheered, bat Is an evil moment he went on to
lay, "Is there nothieg more you want of me! Wouldn't
you like • reform bill?' They said, " Na, st ; we'll hen
nee rifarm heel ; what glide 'II the likes o' that be to r
(A &ugh.) " Well, then," be said, " there nothing else I
can do for you? All he gentlemen who sit on the
benches below me, on my side the house, agree that nothing
would do you working men so much good as • repeal of the
paper duty. Wouldn't you like me to present • petition
from you to get the paper duty taken off r But they cried
out,"Na., sir, ma • we'll just hail smithies o' that kind ;
and gin ye tweet • isetestkia, yenel, free us for you to pre-
' els& to the Masse of Oonustalm we'll last great ye • pets..

Lion against marrying yer wife's seevter. (A laugh.) But
theme just it. thing in this kiutra that puir folks want ;
and that Is, to Mk' a the duty on tea and sugar. If ye
WitMlido that, sir, ye media come down here and wag your
pow amang as Edinboro' folks again." (Laughter.)
Mr. A. BLACK—The hon. and gallant member must
have dreamt gifiwbole attar.

Major HAM/XTON could assure the house that the
story was told him by a friend who lived near the place
where the boo. member's constituents were assembled on that
occasion. At any rate he believed it gave a true representation
of what the feeling of the people of Scotland was, from the
Tweed to John o'Groet's House.
Mr. CAIRD said that if the hon. gentleman who had
just spoken was anxious to appeal to his constituency on
the cry of cheap tea and sugar, he was sure there would be
no difficulty in having cheap tea and sugar, if he sincerely
joined those members who on his skis of the holm were
anxious for • reduction of expenditure. (Hear, hear.) He
believed the Chancellor of the Exchequer had truly attri-
buted the falling off in some sources of revenue to the bed
harvest of last year, but there were some points which bad
been omitted from his consideration. The deficiency in the
harvest was very great, but while it pressed with severity
on the farmers, it was not so grievous to the consumers in 1.
its effects. The price of wheat was 16e. a quarter less than
it was in 1854, 1635, 1856, and the beginning of 1857, mad
that following a period of low prices must have bad a 1
considerable weight indeed in financial results. Com-
pared with the years he had mentioned, the rang!
of the expenditure on bread for the last three years
must have been something like 60,000,0001., and that
enabled the people the better to bear the pressure of the
bad season they had just experienced. If the harvest had
been deficient to the amount of one-third, the enormous
imports, which amounted to one million of quarters per
month since August, not only supplied the immediate defi-
ciency, but would feed the people for the next four months
without any serious pressure and with greatly diminished
imports The harvest in Ireland, though deficient in wheat
and potatoes, was abundant in oats ; and is Scotland there
weab:trEed general crop. He believed that a larger quantity
of would be sown this year, and that the Chancellor
'of the chequer would derive a much larger revenue from
that source than he calculated upon. It would be
a peat advantage if, by the abolition of the
paper duty, the heavy clay lands of the country
were applied to the growth of straw. Lest year be had re.
oared a letter from a large paper manufacturer of the
oath, asking him if he could tell where a steady supply of
1,000 tau of straw might be depended upon. This showed
that the paper manufacturers were turning their attention
to the subject, and if the trade were perfectly free, no one
could tell how far straw might be used for the production
of paper. He had great pleasure in bearing hie testimony
to the advantages which were likely to flow from the finan-
cial policy of the right hon. gentleman. (Hear, hear.)
Major PARKER thought that the agricultural interest
had not been sufficiently considered in the budget of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer.
lb. MOFFATT said • great many recommendations
Lad been made to the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to
Low he should dispose of his surplus : but it appeared to
him that the first thing the right hon. gentleman bad to do
was to show that he really had • surplus ; about which he
(the hon. member) coefeeeed he had very great dad*"
1 and he knew also that those doubts were shared bay may
' that looked carefully and anxiously into the Swarth at the
country. (Cheers.) He would make a summary of his
objections to the surplus. At present it stood at 1,900,0001.
Very grave doubt existed as to 300,0001. of the customs ;
end as to the estimated increase of inland revenue,
3000001. of it bad not been explained to the house. Then
of the 750,0001. China money, he asserted, that they could
not, consistently with justice, receive 100,0001. and
600,0001. of paper duty they could not possibly obtain. It
resulted, therefore, that 1,300,0001. of his surplus they
would certainly not get, and the remaining 6000001. wan
somewhat contingent (Cheers.) He should have been
much more pleased to rapport the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer ; but they were there to take care of the public finances
rather than of any special iadividoaL He would not go
into the comparative merits el a redsetka of the duty on
tea or of an abolition of that on papa. He would only
quote the words of the right boa rattan= when he sai4
" Talk of tea being the rich mans luxury—it is the poor
man's, and above all it is the poor woman's luxury."
(Cheers.) There might be some reason why the right bon.
gentleman had slue changed his views ; but he need not
arms that question. His conviction was that there was
no surplus to dispose of, and he had abundantly shown
that there was no case for remitting any tax at the present
moment at aII. (Chews.)
Mr. WHffnl. DE, after noticing the ingenuity displayed
in the budget in the contriesece of • machinery to get rid
of the paper duty, and to exhibit an imaginary surplus,
urged the inj which the Irish diallers had sustained by
what he tamed the rash project of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer regerdiag the sprit duties. As to the duty on
paper Xr. Canon had relied upon an abstract resolution.
But &home was oppressed with abstract resolutions ; there
had been one on the gabled of reform. Supposing the ex-
istence of a surplus, the income-tax bad been stigma-
tised by the Chancellor of the Exchequer as an immoral
tax, wUch could not be said oil the paper duty ; why, then,
should the former be retained and the latter remitted? So
with the war duties ca tea and sugar—reason and humanity
recommended their repeal rather than the paper duty. He
adopted the character of the budget given by Mr. Bar,
that it was not an honest budget ; be trusted that this sen-
tence would be acted upon by the house, and he was confi-
dent that the decision would be approved by the country.
Mr. HALIBURTON Indulged in some severe but
very gourd criticisms on the Maeda! phut To
my that the tax on paper was •• tax upon know-
ledgewas the Twin* cent he had ever heard.
(Hear. hear.) If them was one thing more detestable than
smother, it was cant., whether political or religious, and
lathing was more destructive in its consequences. (Hear,
hear.) Last year • great deal WWI said about America—a
country which had ',either the incubus of a monarch, nor •
Houma of Lords, nor an established church—a country laid
out like a checkered board, beautiful to look
at (Laughter.) All that amazed and astonished
him, because of the ignores*, which was ex-
hibited. It was
.surprising that sensible men could
fall into such delusion. (Hear, hear.) But they heard no
more of those things now, nor was it likely they would
smith. Nothing but cent had been the cause of the dis-
=KM of the United States of America. He spoke it boldly,
that it was the result of political cant. (Cries of " Ques-
tion.") As the subject appeared distasteful he would pass
oa to soother. The Chancellor of the Exchequer thought
in his self-glorification on Monday night to allude in
proper disrespectful and scornful terms to a petition which he had
presented from the colonies of North America, on the
equalisation of the timber duties, and he took great excep-
tion to the insolence of the language of the right hon.
gentleman. (061er, order.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rid he rose
to complain of the language of the hon. member, not on
L personal ground", but because it bad reference to the dignity
of the aw.

The ii'EASER said the expresswos of the hon. member
were not parliamentary. (" Hear, bear," and cheers.)
Mr. HALIBURTON said he bowed to the decision of the
chair ; be withdrew the words which he had pronounced,
and he regretted that he had used them. (" Hear, hear,"
and cheers.) U he bad spoken warmly, he felt deeply.
(Meer.) The petition which he presented—(question.)
The was part of the question which was under cluscuarion,
via., • reduction of duties for which credit had been takes,
sad he submitted that ho was within the limits of the dis-
mission. The petitioners prayed that on a certain class of
timber—beards, battens, and deals—the duty might not be
taken off without some notice ; but it was decided against
them, and they submitted, and there was an end of the
matter. But ho was very much astonished to hear it
again alluded to by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and in
the language to which he had taken exception. (Hear.)
Their request was not unreasonable; but if it were, was that
randier! Had no unreasonable requests come horn Ireland,
:Scotland, and other prate of the empire? (Cries of " Di.
Tide") When the right hon. gentleman said he had beard
predictions of ruin horn the North American colonies he
had been grimly deceived. Rubs! It was not in the power
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, by whatever legislation
he introduced, nor in the power of parliament, to ruin that
country. It was too young, vigorous, and enterprising, and
too full of removes to be ruined by anything except the
hand of God or its own kill,. (Hear, hear.) The right boo.
gentleman could never have heard those prediction' ; and as
to the " doleful wail" across the Atlantic, why that was
not language to be applied to • respectful petition
from these colonies, which, now that • disruo•
Lion bad taken place in the United States, would
take the lead among the nations on the American
continent. From 1620, wham the Puritans first landed on
its shores, to the present day, no such thing as • doleful
wail had been heard coming from that country. The right
hoe. gratlaman's nerves really seemed to be strung on the
principle of an Zoller, harp, every breeze against the chords
of which produced doleful and melancholy music. He
should advise the right hon. gentleman to cross the
Atlantic, or he would find that his harp would very soon
be rendered mate. He would recommend him rather to go
to Coventry. (Laughter.) There he would hear • doleful
tale. (" Hear, hear, and " Oh, oh.") There he would find •
population who a year ego were industrious, thriving,
happy, and contented, now reduced to • state of eg
and destitution in consequence of his French treaty. Oh,
oh.) Then' be would on pallid cheeks aid attenuated
frames, broken looms, and broken hearts, that would make
the stout man shudder and the good man weep. (laughter
and " hear, hear.") Thera, indeed, he would hear a doleful
wail. Or, if lie would not go there, let him go to Oxford.
(A laugh.) Ile would there see his own constituents wan-
dering about those shady groves of Arcadia like the rem-
aining of • past aye, occupying themselves with the hobbies
of • past age, and teaching the dialects of the dead to living
mac. (Laughter.) lie would hear moans about a tacit
contract between him and them having been broken. Who-
ever had the high honour of representing that great, learned,
and venerable institution should be a staunch supporter of
the institutions of church and state, and not • man who gave
a cold and reluctant vote, or a silent and sneering support,
In their interest—

Damn with faint praise, assent with den issr,
And, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer.

(Laughter and cries of " Divider) What had they got to
divide upon ? (Ironical cheers from the ministerial benches.)
They would divide in good time, and perhaps hon. members
opposite would be surprised at the result. (Cheers.) He
had now done with that subject. (Divide.) He entered
his protest against such a reception as his fellow countey
mess on the other side of the Atlantic bad received from the
right hew seetkeitaa. They did not doom it at hie Made.

(Hear, bear.) They were a loyal people.
They had given
a reception to the heir apparent of this empire in the last
mason such as no member of the House of Hanover had
ever experienced since that family had sat on
the throne of England. (Hear, bear.) They vene-
reted our institutions, and were fond of British connexion.
He thought that every member of that house would agree
with him when he said that the iodepeudence and manliness
of that people, and their loyalty and attachment to this
country, euteded them to our respect ; and their lineage,
Magner, and oonsanguinity to us entitled them at all events
to our best attention. (Cheers.)
Mr. B. OSBORNE bad listened with respect to the hon.
member forHuntingdon, and hadheard him say that thebndget
was neither sane, nor moral, nor even honest to the country.
(Ommition cheers.) If gentlemen opposite thought so, why
wrnome forward and meet the budget boldly by a negative?
Did they think to do as they bad done io the case of the
Reform Bill of last year, awl talk it out' (Hear, hear.)
Why had not the hon. member for Huntingdon moved •
direct negative' But no.
" He back recoiled, he knew not why,
Frightened at the sound himself had made."
The hon. member had sneered at the budget, had ques-
tioned the existence of • surplus ' • but he made no motion.
Then there was the hon. and enthusiastic member for Cam-
bridgeshire. To him he (Mr. Osborne) might say, in
the words of Collins--

" With woeful accents, wan despair
Low, sullen sounds his grief beguiled,
A solemn strain and mingled air ;
'Twits sad by starts, by fits 'twu vend."
Laughter.) But that description answered for the whole
of the opposition. If they said that the budget was neither
moral, political, nor honest, they should come forward
rind vote want of confidence in the government. Were
they prepared to do that ? (Hear, hear.) The right hon.
member for Bucks had, the other evening, said he had not
made up his mind; and as for the bon. member for Hun-
tingdon, who mould discover his meaning ? They said the
budget of ministers was unsafe, dishonest, and immoral,
and yet they were not prepared to tarn
them out. He (Yr. Osborne) hoped they would not take
' back their budget; he hoped that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer would act with his usual firmness, and that the
Right Hon. President of the Board of Trade would persist in
dividing the home, even if it came tea vote of want of con-
fidence.

Wain EDWARDS listened to many excellent speeches
during the course of this debate, and he came to
the emielusion that instead of • surplus we had • defi-
ciency of two millions and • half. Under such circa=
stances be felt theT could not go fairly before the country
sad say they were in • position to reduce tematica. (Hair,
hear.)
Mr. MAGUIRE said be should confine himself to the
subject of the paper duty. The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had stated, on his responsibility, that there was •
surplus, and the question was whether this was • time for
the repeal of that duty. The paper manufacture wee •
most important one ; it was in an embarramed cooditirm,
and he eonteaded that the home was bound by the promise
made to the trade. He showed the pressure of the duty
upon the manufacture of which was almost crushed
by it in Ireland. The abolition of the swiss duty upon
paper would be one of tall greatest boom confined upon
the country, and the obligati= up= parliament to repeal
it wee string.
Mr. HORAMAN moved the adjournment of the debate.
Lord PALKEW3TON said the debate might be adjourned
till this day (Friday), but he understood that the two boa.
gentlemen w bad notices of motions this day were sot
willing to rondo, and therefore it meat be taken on
Monday.
The debate wee this adjourned again till Monday.

RAILWAY 00XPANIk8 110iTGAGE TRANSFER
egeOTLAND) BILL.
This to pawed through committee.

STREET SAILS.

Mr. BRADY moved for a select committee to inquire
Tito the propriety of establishing a mode of public convey
&ace by means of iron rails in streets and highways.
Sir .T. SHELLEY said that the proposition of his hon.
friend appeared to him somewhat extraordinary. He be-
lieved they bad Mr. Train again in another form, and there-
fore he should divide the house against his boo. friend's
motion. His hon. friend might try his own band at a bill.
Mr. WHALLEY said he lived in the neighbourhood of
Birkenhead, where street rails existed, and he never heard
anything but praise of them. He believed that Mr. Train's
bill had bow rejected on technical grounds only, and as he
thought the motion of the boa. gentleman was most reason-
able he should suSitt:
Mr. COOPER it would be waste of time to go
into committee to a bill, and should recommend the
hon. gentleman rather to prepare a bill himself. (Hear.)
Mr. LIDDELL hoped the house would pause before it
mooted to the motion. Those tramways were utterly in.
coesktest with the construction of oar streets, and he
doubted whether any plan would ever be discovered of
makiag them oessistent with the safety and convenience of
the pablie. (Hear, beer..
O'Bi sad Mr. HANEXT supported the motion.
Mr. MOWBRAY said that hon gentlemen who had had
any experimme of committees on metropolitan subjects
would be quite satisfied of the impracticability of the motion.
Mr. MAGUIRE observed that there were a great number
of plans of street rails, and be should support the motion as
tending to skate down monopoly in this matter.
Them* PALMERSTON thought that to appoint a
mmunittee without a delimits before it would not
beady to lead MI soy malt. He differed
treeemear
_at than irks led the house on this
subject Be el• it would kis • greet scoosensodatios to
the public if something is the shape of tranneeds could be
laid (lowa in the striate et our towns. In Mika they bad a
plan whisk wee found to be of great convenience. Flat
pions se stems were laid down for the wheels el cri
end the bones went over a different kind of paveaingenstiC
toms the. If that could be done, without say monopoly.
but to vehicles of any kind, it would, no doubt, be
fQuad equally useful in London. But it would be better to
bring in • bill at once, giving the neesesary authority to
paving beards, or other public bodies that aught be autho-
rised to make the improvements. (Hear, hear.)
Lord FERMOY submitted that if any legislation of the
kind were proposed it should be by a bill istroduced by the
=dmant upon its own responsibility. He (Lord Fermin)
that after the expression of the opinion of the
house on the motion, the hon. member would not press the
matter, bat leave it in the hands of the government, it
being a ray important goodie&
After a brief reply by Mr. BRADT, and a few remarks
from Mr. A. KIIIIIAMD, in favour of the appointment of
the committee. the house divided :
Ayes
Noes
The House then adjourned at a quarter to one o'clock.

Mr. Hudsonle paired for the " Nonooefonniet Burial
Bill," with Mr. Murray agaimat.
Lord Enfield paired in favour of the " Ballot," with Mr.
H. H. Jade against.