The Express.
London, England, 1850-07-09 00:00:00

EVRNING, JULY 9, 1850„

A Oise wee asked to repeat the potable at the
sewer, which be did; bet es subssossilibes dui
pane% the Wimp pensived that he plis yen speoldg by
rote, end asked Us to esplain wind-4nd tenni by " The
birds of the sir." The men easwend be Welsh, but the
bishop said, " Oh, you en answer well ensile in tegible f
"es have plesty et theta in your eon perish." .Thiontill
and energenally, " No, Skink God ! v'a't an .
be
pressed for as eagleastion, he sad that he
" Riede of the air " to MUM py girls, who went
le &web, sad embed tiNdp naps at the parson. (Loa/bees
Oa smellisee sesseies, wiles a clergymen attempted se
anseamle Oat es tie" tabeerin Saaday there would be •
nblitaleliete he Sbi Irish, he said that on that day
ibry weal p Amadei IM Isiah. (A laugh.) But thew
wes• *sly two est If Wee& of same in which Weals@
twee frees the fast of &grew being appointed in Wales
de "mew settling of dm Massage. now came ben
e'Ml= dSte inmelemess_ is the disease el Leaden.
al fa the iIIR be laid Is his hand Hal*, Arced...
1551.." hat In oddities to that is was canon of St.
rasre,' 1,2001., Master of the Chute, House, 1,4001,
Wier of Si. Odes% Capplegate, 2,01111., mishits, a total of
endsments of considerably upwards of 6,0001. a year. He
alba bow was it possible for one man to "find to all these
&lin (Nest.) Again, there was Archdeacon Crofts with 10
maemeefelesisil eutelement ineludine a Hang which be bed
tit visited for ten yeses and entounting is all to unions of
11,0001. a year. (Hear.) Should not the commissioners who
bad pearlised such abuses be dismissed at once ? He would
Set even let them down easy, but dismiss them at nee from
the board they had disgraced. (Hear, hear.) There was
' one case in which they had abolished a pluselatrao curios'
that he utald not pose It ever without notice. The Bishop
of Rochester's income was fined in 1846 at 4,5001, and he
retuned his nett receipts at 9641. They added 3,6401. to
make up the deficiency ; but is the meet year the bishop
made an application to the eemmississn,teUiag asset that
he held two other appointments, but that if they gave
him 4,6001, he would resign them. And thus they
would have the credit of Ir.ving abolished a pluralin.
The plan was agreed and the bishop made
1,6001. a year by hie bargain. Who would not give up plu-
ralities on such terms ? (Hear, hear.) Baskin that, how-
ever, a passe was built for him, which cost 28,0001. Now,
to show the contrast between a bishop and a curate, he
would take the cam of the Archbishop of Canterbury end one
of his curates. His grace had been Bishop of Custer for 20
years, and canon of Durham for 28 peers, and two years
Archbishop of Canterbury, end during that time had ro -
caved 174,0001. Now, npposieg the curate to have non
of the year one of the Christian era, he would, down to 18.50,
have received 129,0001, leavings balance of 46,0001 in faveur
of the archbishop (Load laughter.) But that was not all.
Whole pages of the Clergy List were filled with the name of
Sumner, who appeared to be ell natural born par-
sons. (A laugh.) he (Sir D. Hall), was reminded of an
Waltman who applied to him for employment in the puller
at Abero y, and when asked for his qualifications, said,
" Oh, please your honour, I'm a natural burn watchman."
(Laughter.) It would seem that in lake gunner the Sumner@
wen all natural born parson. (Hear, hear) Agin, the
Bishop of Enter had during nineteen years in his various
appointments received 129,3001., while one of Lis curates,
commencing with the Christi ,n ere, would have received
6;,8001, leaving a tulance of 64,6001. in favour et tag bishop.
(Hear, hear.) But the Pitillpotta were as numerous in the
church lathe Sooners. There were sons, and sons in law, and
nephews, with two or three appointments each, and all these
pluralities had been perpetrated while the commistioners were
sir ing,themen whose duty it was to abolish pluralities. (Hear,
hear.) The hon. baronet concluded 1.7 expressing his in-
tention of supporting the amendment.
Sir 0. GREY said that a large portion of the hon. barn.
net's observations had nothing whatever to do with the
question bekre the committee, perhaps arising from the fact
of his being unacquainted with the statutable duties of the
commissioners. The hon. baronet had cited many instances I
of pluralitier, which were no doubt much to be regretted,
but the fact was, that the commissioners hail no power ct
dealing with the question. He knew nothing of the case of
Archdeacon Hav, hut it did not appear that the
hon. baronet's remedy of sending the bishops to live
on their dioceses would have done much in that case,
Is adopting the proposal of his noble frien.l (Lord
John Russell) to place the whole management of the
property in the hands of an estates committee they would be
carrying out the view of his hon. friend the member fee
Mahon (Mr. E. Denison), and he hoped the committee
would adhere to the recommendation of the select committee
by sanctioning the larger body for general purposes, but
placing the property under the management of a limited
body.
Sir J. PAKINOTON wished to say a few words to relieve
the character of a connexion of his, the Bishop of Winchester, ,
from the injurious imputations which the statements of the
hon. member were calculated if allowed to go unanswered
end unexplained to cast upon it. The hon. gent:come said
that that bishop was one of those who had spent Large sums i
in building and improving the episcopal palaces, and that not
being content with the palace attached to the see he had ex- '
ended upwards of 20,0001. on a palace in Essex. Nothing ,
could be further from the fact. (Hear) The expenditure
referred to arose from the alteration in the limits of the
diocese by which the old palace at Bromley was no longer '
within the limits of the see, and had the bishop remained
there he would have been non-resident. (Hear.) But that ,
poises had bean sold and the amount obtained for it had
tar mere that. paid the expense of the new palace
in Rues. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman had
made another statement equally unfounded and still
more invidious. He had said that the Bishop of Rochester I
had made a merit of giving up his pluralities, but had in- t
creased his income by 1,600/, a year by the change ; but the
truth wee that the plueslities the bishop o dared were of
more value than the bishopric.
Sir B. HALL explained that his statement had been
founded on the only documents which the ecclesiastical com-
missioners had made public as to the value of the bishopric,
and the value of the pluralities he bad obtained morn the
Clergy List.
Mr. GLADSTONE wished to have informationg respect-
ing the 64,0001. which the hon. gentleman had stated had
Men spent tter the palace o' the Bishop of Lincoln.
S.r B II ALL observed that that included the estate.
Mr. GLADSTONE wished to know whether that sum
was not included in the amount which he had taken as the
total incomes of certain bishops ? 11e would not
go into the details of that transaction, but the
opinion of the commissioners was that uo better liar.
gain could have been mode for the interests of the church.
It was mut unjust to soy that this money was taken from
the funds which would have been applicable to the increasing
the stipenls of the working clergy (and he mum Repudiate
the distinction which was ettempted to he drawn between
th, bishops and the working clergy, for he believed the
bishops worked harder than any curate). But with regard
to the case in question, he believed the transaction was in
the shape of an exchange of lands, in order to bring the
residence of the Bisbee of Lincoln more immediately
within the neighboutheo tof his duty. He was alive to
the detects of the administration of the ecclesiastical com-
mission in regard to certain portions of their buoions, bat he
must protest against the attempt to throw on the shoulders
of the bishops all the short comings of„the commission. He
believed the noble lord's amendment would ett; et a neat
improvement by limiting the
:management of the property
to an estates committee.
Aster a few words from Mr. E. DENISON,
Mr. HORSHAM observed that his objection was to the
bishops having secular duties heaped upon them at all. lie
believed his amendment was addressed to the right govern-
ment of the church and the steno:Mt fulfilment of the epis-
copal functions.
Mr. P. WOOD thought it would be better if the nominee
commissioner were permanent.
The nmmittee
divided—
For the clause 6O
For Mr. Horentan's amendment 24-38
The clause was then agreed to.
On clause 2
Mr. E. DENISON asked the house to support the re-
commendation of the "elect committee, that there *hotel be
three paid commissioner to manage the property under the ju-
risdiction of this commission which amounted including tithe
rent-charges, lento, and other matters to not less
than 70,0000001. This was a more important tuition
than it mig'it seem at first eight, as ultimately
all the church property of lesson would fall into
the hands of this estates committee, and some cen-
tral authority was necessary to administer such a
vast amount of property.
Mr. GLADSTONE opposed the amendment. It was
principally grounded on the immense amount of property
which would come under the management of the commis-
sioners ; but et pretest that property was not of one-third
the amount. It would be a treat error to appoint
officers with large salaries before the duties arose ;
it was a much more anneal course to make the additional
wpointutects when the increasing duties called for them.
The parliamentary committee had recommended three paid
aseimissionere, not on account of the duties, but to create a
ennterbalance to the two appointed by government.
Sir 0. GREY concurred in the propriety of not burden-
ing the funds with unnecessary salaries. The government
had thought the services of a third oommissioner might be
secured, who was receiving a salary from soma other otlice,
and mirth' be es efficient on the commission as a paid officer.
Mr. P. WOOD did not think it probable that the regular
attendance of an unpaid commissioner could he secured.
Sir B. HALL said he objected entirely to the composition
of the commission. He would propose that two commis-
eionen appointed by the government and one by the arch-
bishop should be paid.
Mr. HORSMAN suggested that the Church Building
Commission, and the Commissienen of Queen Anna%
Bounty, should be amalgamated with the Ecclesiastical Com-
mission, whereby a great saving of salaries would be
sifec.d.
Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say that it was not
' desirable at present to appoint a third paid commissioner ;
but that it might be done, should an increase of the duties
render it necessary.
Lord HARRY VANE supported the recommendation of
Mr. Horseman for the consolidation of the three commis-
sioner.
Mr. E. DENISON withdrew his amendment, and the
clause was agreed to, as were the three following ones.
On clause 6, which enacts that the church estates manse
stoners shall, with two other members (one a layman), to
be appointed by them, form" the estates committee,"
Sir B. HALL said the whole country wu crying out with
disgust 'Rana the management of the church property being
confided to a body appointed like the present coalmines'.
Hs would therefore move the omission of the elate*.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the select committee had recom-
mended that three paid oommissionen should be members
of this committee, thereby clearly showing that they in-
tended some members of the present commission to be mem-
bers of the church estates committee. Tbe government
had gone rather beyond the recommendation of the select
committee as to the constitution of this estates committee.
The object of the government was to make an ediciest cum-

•.. -~.

emission. erel sal Melseet it many laymen who were *Reel-
lest men of
Mr. BUJ:ra. the commission had not abused their
trust, why WO this Ethisrought in ? (Rear, hear.) He
should vote for striking eat this clause.
Sir J. TROLLOPS. is a member of the select committee,
said the be. beennee (Sir B. Hall)) had fallen into error in
stating that the Bishop of Lincoln had received 64,0001.
from the sithalastial commission ; he had only received
6,2001.—the romalader had been applied In the per.
sham of estate. Mika had bees obtained at a cheep
rate. There had also hem a mastatement as to the Bishop
of Rochester • the feet wes. he had sold litiasziscopal resi-
dence at Bromley for 30,0001., and pure another (or
24,0001, the eceleethatial fund beneadng by the difference.
Mr. GLADSTONE defended the proposed tromposition of
the estates committee, sad tM seems having the appoint-
ment of two lumbers, would have a complete control over
the amassment of property, as two of the Mara estates
otuanalasioners must concur ea every act done.
After a few words from. Mr. Mayouta and Sir G. Gallo,
Mr. HUME said that if three outs, the five eemmieetonen
were to be ealestatinal commiesionen, it would be giving a
direct majority to the church.
Sir G. GREY said it was not necessary they should be
ecclesiastical commissioners.
Mr. HENLEY thought the clauses were not at all suffi-
ciently precise or clear. From the manner in which they
were drawn no one could say what their effect might be
when they came into operation. He could not see what
were the powers which were to be conferred on the estates
ociessaittee.
Lord J. RUSSELL called the hon. gentleman's attention
to the terms of the 6th and 7th clauses, which appeared to
him to be very clear.
Mr. HENLEY thought, with all deference for the noble
lord's opinion, that the difficulty to which he had referred
had sot been at all cleared up. The 7th clause empowered
the estates committee to manage the property of the eccle-
siastical commissioners, bat there was no provision whatever to
restrain the ecclesiastical commissioners from doing anything
they pleased. Whet was to prevent them from dealing with
the suttee ? A report in writing was to be made to them
under the bands of three at least of the committee, of whom
two should be church estates commissioners. It seemed to
him to bo a very incoasenient course that the power of the
estates committee and the power of the commission at large,
should be concurrent. He thought it ought to be made
quite elem.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the sense of the clause was quite
plain. He did not, however, mean to say that the words
might not be liable to the interpretation put upon them by
the hon. gentleman. Care should, at all event., be taken
that there should bs no enisapprehen.ion on the subject.
Mr. HORSMAN said, that although great respect ap•
peered now to have been paid to the recommendation of the
committee, it had already been dissented from.
The committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it 76-43
On clause 7 being prepaid—
Sir G. 0 ItEY said it might be right to take • little time
to consider the insertion of some words in this clause, in
accordance with the suigestion of the member for Oxford,
but they might take another opportunity of doing so.
Mut. DENISON proposed adding these words to the clause:
" That the estates commissioners should have the power to
employ such solicitors, surveyor., or actuaries as they should
think fit."
On putting the question,
Lord J. RUSSELL objected to the amendment on the
ground that it would be laying the foundation of perpetual
jealousy and controversy between the church commissioners
and the committee.
Mr. GLADSTONE said the matter was one of import.
ance and some difficulty. The amendment might be
printed, and considered at a future day.
Mr. P. WOOD said it was obviously the intention of the
government that the estates committee should be the work-
ing body, and have the sole management of the church
e states.
Mr. HENLEY suggested the withdrawal of the amend-
ment, which was age, ed to, and the clause paned. Clauses
8 and 9 were also passed.
Os clause 10 being proposed,
Mr. HENLEY said it gave all power over the b:dy of
the commosi -in to ens branch of it.
Sir G. GREY said that an alteration had been made is
the clause.
It was then passed as amended, as also clause 11.
Oa claws 12 being proposed,
Mr. HORSMAN said this clause referred to the audit-
ing of the accounts of the ecclesiastical corcmissi niers under
the directions of the Treasury. He wished to ask whether
the noble lord (J. Russell) would have any objection to in
trodueo words calling upon the commissioners also to make
au annual ri port ?
Sir G. GREY !aid an annual report would be required,
but he did not exactly know whether it would contain
minute details.
Mr. HORSMA-N said he was only axioms that • report
should be made annually.
Sir G. GREY said he had no objection whatever, and
the clause was passed.
On clause 13 being proposed,
Sir 0. GREY said the effect of the amendment proposed
to this clause, would be to assimilate the bile to the mate in
which it was in the other house of parliament.
Mr. GLADSTONE said this clause gave the ecclesiastical
cominis.ionera power to transfer any surplus arisirg from the
episcopal fund to the common fund. Nothing could be more
outrageous than to deprive the poor of the blessin is of spiritual
education. The parochial funds had lost a great deal g
srhico ought to have been made available for those purpose..
He could not consent to the clause without moving an amend- t
meat, of which he had given notice, although it was in the ,
shape of • clause by which it was proposed to enact, 1
Tkat wherever it shall have been shorn to the satisfaction of the
Ecclesiastical Commiseioners that the sum id 30,0'01. has been pro- I
sided by private contnbuticms towards tie endowment of an episcopal ;
see, In any place or district having a population of not less th-in one
hundred thousand souls, ce towards the erection of an episcopal
residence, and that one half at least of the raid thirty thousand
pounds has been contributed by persons red .ing or bolding property
therein, it shall then be lawful few the said ecclesiastical eo I.lntesion-
ere, it they shall think It, • ith the consent of the bishop or bishops
at the true having juriial.etion ovor such place or distritt, and of the
archbishop of the province, to frame sod to submit to her Majesty
council for her approval, a scheme fur the erection of a bi-hopric ul
such place or district, and of any parts contiguous thereto,
accordingly; end to propose the appropriation towards the
endowment thereof of any sum not • sceeding Mt en hundred pounds
per annum, from any monies now standing to the en dit of the epis-
copal fund, or hereafter te accrue to the comtriscliners from am- epi
copal estate or property, or from the regulated anneal paym.nt.of any
bishop, or to prepare the annexation to such I.est ut any estate or
models veetet in the commission, and estimated to produce an average
act income not esceo.tng the said amount, and In such
ease, to make provision for the redemption of any portion of the raid
estate or estates, it it shall appear that at any future time its perma-
nent net income Is raised beyond the said amount, and likewise sub.
}ect to such consent as aforesaid, to define the limits of the dowels to
be constituted; and when her Majesty in council shall be plowed to
give her ascent to such scheme, it shell bold good in law te all intents
and purposes, and the diocese so described shall be separated from all
other epoicipsl jurisdictions, and shah become sue ject to the sole epis-
copal jurisdiction of the Whop to he appointed thereto.
lie confessed that his object in providing for the raising of
oo large a local contribution was not merely to lighten the
tee on the central fund, though it was important that they
should not have any claim on • fund which ought to he
applied to parochial purposes, and therefore he had fixed the
income ¶at 11001 a-year (of course the bishop not having a
seat in the House of Loral, that intention being palpable
from the amount of income fixed,) yet it was likewise with
the view, and the more immediate view (the nbecrip-
don being conclusive evidence of it), that in
the place itself and among members of the church,
there should be a desire to found a bishopric and a
desire to receive a bishop, thus making an °peeing for ;all
the excellent effects which were likely to follow from
the estabiishment of the see, and that the bishop should be
received not with mordants but with eagerness and satisfac
Lion, the plan having originated not (rota head-quarters but
from local feeling ant desire. A bishop appointed under
such circumetances, would become really the spiritual and
eccle.iostical head of the community over which he was
placed; and although he might not know personally every
one in his diocese (for he, Mr. Gladstone, doubted if St.
Ambrose had • personal acquaintance with every one in his
diocese of Milan), yet be could discharge duties similar to Shoo)
which in Leeds and other large towns were performed by
men of great energy who were only in the position of paro-
chial clergy.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the reason for adopting
this clause was, that after the discussions in the house and
the report of the committee, it was thought that the spiritual
wants of large parishes (and this was confirmed by the firet
report. of the Commission of Inquiry) were so great that
it was considered advisable that all the sums which
could be applied to that purpose, should be devoted*, the
increase of parochial cures. In compliance with that view
an alteration was proposed in the original emoritution of the
funds made by the first commission of icquiry, namely, the
separation with. episcopal fund. It was a question much
considered by the commission, and he did not think that if
the right hon. gentleman had been a member of it, he could
have the appropriation of certain funds for the purposes of
bishoprics overlooked. It wu a subject of frequent discus-
sion io the commission, more especially as the late Arch-
bishop of Canterbury, and the Lite Earl of Ilarrowby, enter-
tained • different opinion on the matter. Thee the
right hon. gentleman said that if the house decided that
there should be no separate funds, and that the common
episcopal fund be made one, it would at ones tt shelve " the
question at the creation of mew bishopric., and would, io
tact, be a decision that there were to be no new bishoprics.
He (Lord J. Russell) could net consider that question so
absolutely decided. It was true it was not proposed to pro-
ceed with the royal commission which was in exist-
ence three years ago, for the creation of new bishops.
The commissioners and the Archbishop of Canterbury
had considered this question, and they were of opinion
that it was desirable to give as much of the
funds as possible for the creation of parochial
districts, and that no hill should be iatroduced for the for-
mation of any new bishoprios until there was a more general
assent to each • proposition than was likely to be obtained
now. The right hon. gentleman said that at was a mistake
to create the see of Mancheeter. He (Lord .1. Russell),
however, thought that if • diocese was so enormous as that
of Chester, and if it was impossible fora bishop to visit the
most populous p iris of his diocese, there would be more
likely to be dissent from the church than the feeling
in favour of the formation of a bishopric, which the right
hon. gentleman seemed to think necessary. lie differed with
the right hon. gentleman with regard to the creation of bishop-
rics. Supposing that it was considered right to add
to those which were now in existence, he thought that they
should be added on the ism. plan as the diocese of Manchester,
with an income of about 4,0001 a year: that would he acting
more in conformity with the arrangements of the church, and
the regulations of the church, as at present constituted. lie
did not think that such bishops could not ho the spiritual
heads of their dioceses, or that taking into account the secular
duties they had to perform, they mad fail in that respect.

Sir R. INGLIS said he differed with his e,
St
league (Mr. Gladstone) with regard to the est:otiose
the see of Manchester, aad ee %%eked his rda,
(Lord J. Rossetti) for having selected that great toms seat of a bishopric. It being so large a town, end
a dean and chapter having been aimed, forme., j„,,
selection, and It that his noble Mead did good:Lenin,
ggereh; bat be most remind hie noble friend wit*.
formed that see, he also undertook to create other
and nothing had sines occurred to prevent that Leinct,
agreed that great inconvinienoe would arise hoes'
pinijon of the episcopate from the state on the plan right hoes. friend, which in other hands and otb.,
might lead to the separation of Church and State,
was another plan which might be carried by lams
tote still in force—namely, the 'unseat/lie of
bishops, whom sees were crested by the statute
VIII. They were not intended to sit in the Bout
sad though he did not admit the pltrael of " thi
clergy, in contradistinction to such a bishop n t
of London, and though he would not admit that
bishops only were entitled to be called 0 woiddit
dill their junctioa would be more purely epiemp4
Material sense. When he remembered that 21e)
there were two bishops for this metray ,le
the Bishop of Westminster sat by the tide ni
of London, he thought it might re &deli/hi. I
a Bishop of Westminster, end precedents ethos
so. Hie objection, however, to inirpirl the epi,
the common fund, wet, that what wouid be
would never be reeevered.

-
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ehooftling:suuitntehoiebvrigie"::::::tyhtinob:anthio:.ebu"er:bthoredui:rnb4ut:tiolhi.ti:lp;l
Sir J. PAKINGTON said tle argum,"oft"'
(sodsba
oi
bishoprics.
fah hora.paralnialc:poa. ah notat.rfffhthoaA Nes °lna
hi
at thoughthPeaaPinil
oo:hal:same
mast cisabl d
sou n
fulfilled his former premiss to create th;o.
self on that head.
Mr. S. HERBERT said the reason the LA,
much over merked by secular labour at pi,
they were few in number, and their elioseses
The way to correct and remedy tail:ice e...,
ducemen of superior mincsand eetivehel..t.
Let the house reflect upon the CM• of tke
There they had a man of rrong and warm
the peeple, one who by his labours ant hti
effected much benefit. But what bed le-
duties of the episcopate to his charge
that if the episcopacy was to be reins! '
love, encouraging the timiu and azioi...ne the
ems, who could fu;fil these several date
ta—satkopdhhenbahni eaiSdoeayastt
eut:Tehpr. celyhyenia. 'ae‘k peacemakers,
demands
hip o st wdra elserakt if,egoul'kri:i btanswdi ilioectlnohwuaagoflnadpd succession'bttab sine: forwarding
hwereoneniapagetn6:Pah ael mind to sine. a
l
di.igence. ,y
copacy by the faithful discharge of Lis dot..,
em lad ,prat.
flick. (Cheers) He regretted that V
(J. Russell) had not adhered to the
oelly stood, and that he did not interel
the episcopacy, as he had promised to do in 1
Sir B. HALL sale! the red question before •1
whether it was desirable to have more ls.s.t..te,
number o. working clergy. Now, he teat' 't
the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, on :he
the Bishop of Lincoln was asked the Blest,
told be one of your lordship's brethren on It.
additi mai number of bishops is desireb:e ,"
reverend prelate answered, "I Wok :tat
bishops is very desirable in some TWAT.
wets asked whether I think it were more d.
increase of the working clergymen I do a.:
desirable." Look at the condition of the w;rs.,
had taken the cases of eight alphabetica;lc,
neigebourhooel. The livings of ail of them w
year; they varied from 451. to GS.. the isigl,e,t
etas of St. David's there were 23 curates.
exceeded 1001. a year, 14 not se:coding
ceeding 801, 14 under 601, 39 under 501., sr.o
comes varied from 191. to 401. (Hear, be,
those men were obliged to appear as geritteece
a case, happening nearly at his own do;r,.;
man who was anxious, in consequence ot the
peed he had as a curate, to have el thee
him which were about being given to the po
thankful that they were bestowed upon tin,
dignitary of the church saw Lim w
site
In a coloured coat, he blamed him ter rie.K s
which he could not stint to purchase. 11,
said the case of the poor clergymen ought .
before they appointed more bishops.
Mr. A. J. HOPE said the statement of tl.er.,:c
amounted to this—that rich and overfed 1.14:. ; • et;
their duty. Now, the proposition before theta w
bishops should be created with more halite icc)mes
occupy a less dignified positias, who should eel m.
working derey.
Mr. DRUMMOND suggested that the tithes
been remitted should be restored.
Mr. HENLEY sopvrted the emendmect.
Sir T. ACLAND thought that if they refuse! t:
the clime as sent down t, them, they would be p.L.T.".
in perpetuity any hope of adding to the inferior crilt
clergy.
Mr. P. WOOD objected to two failures it; the disco—
first, that which divided the episcopal fund from the .
men fund ; they were both the church fund. Tie next
hey woo in the distinction drawn between
bishops and the working clergy. He had always ob'
to that distinction, and always should pr ,t.st
He should, therefore, support the aniendmen'.
Lord J. MANNERS contended for the cause 51
diwn trona tie House of Is Ads, and called on tie
n to assent to the amendment.
Mr. C. 1 CSUNER hoped the noble lord (Lord J
would sate whether he conceived that the clause
the effect of preventing any future endowment ot t
He thought there was great doubt whether es,.
not be the ed-ct of the first part of the Howie.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, as he understood to •
clause, its effect wan this. There were en-, -7
which could be provided for out of the constri n :.-
were other purposes which could be provide a r
episcopal fund, and the episcopal rani coull
to the purposes of any other fund ; Du: r., •. :
either the one fund or the other was a: yieeeLt • .
the formation and endowment of any new ' •
the clause proposed by the House ot L •rds e . •••
episcopal iund remaining as it then w is. ooe
might accrue should be applicable to the pt,r? •:-
mon fund. The clause which he prop se d s.v.t • t .T
only one fund in future; but it provided tr.a: c..y
provision be made out of the: fund her tr.- .t.
livings, and other objects which were the',
of the common fund, but that that fem.:
able to the increase of the poorer tee,. ••• .‘
which were provided for then cut ot •-es
Therefore, by the amendment which he • r
latter words of the clause, power eves :to—. • ei
would thereafter be the common food. o‘t ' n •
both of the episcopal fund and the ..r. .
purposes to which the common fund '!.. • •
namely, the increase of Has smaller blebs::: • .
viding for smaller livings. He did not the.: 5.,..
one clause or by the other as it then : a.
ment then proposed it, was there ant , I ,
new bishoprics; he beii,ved that mass'...r.
parliament. There being at present on .
might be argued the. it would ho a pr.', r .
that fund to foundnew bishoprics and to aged, r •
the surplus. In the winner, however. tr. w..
vernment proposed the clause, it would m r • .
argued that the first an; Itestion of the c `LtTT..T.
of assns Leo^s.
not think that by the c 50.0
tipshLeinsseg
atno,p:poliothcaf
etiparoastnue.eh::,c;.: wools be to rep; :y
it there wee anything to :MIT the ‘l.•ctre:ion map. par: amt
or to
in the number of bistu pries. It: c.rts..:.r
might from time to time he right to inzr,..,eaa,
ntp
tat:. 3
bishoprics, but the inten.ion of the p
I SSD 11i1114%,
himself was, that the increase o
should bo e
first
citation of new livings in populous gicrieu,
Prevent any increase which milt. re
‘:noitu‘
hat
that

,11 Aa.

provided for. (Hier 1
Lord J. MANNERS slid that Is th:re hid PITt sly bete
en
1,100 applications to the e.?:nnot.-: : r sta.l.
would put it to the boas; what p;oh A :to rlo. re a of
increire of bishoprics if al such c'plt:eior.. were
Satibtiekt first ?
The house then divided
For the amendment .................. 1; ;
Agana: it .......................
Clauses 13 and 14 were then quid la:ass:on
Ou clause 15,
Several hon. members suggested a pm:t:,:::ctue:d of
further consideration of the bill.
Mr. DISRAELI said that as the Poi.e vonel wept
the subject, he would move that the chairarot tceor.
grew (Hear. hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL was disposed topo efl to
or to take any other business the house nii,:ht
on. However, he could not consent to rerun prog-,
unless the house should consent to proceed alto
nos. (" Hear, hear," and " Divide, divide.' t
The gallery was then cleared Pr a division, but r •ce
place, in consequence of the motion, that the chso Loin t
port progress, being agreed to.
INCORPORATION OF BOROUGHS CONFIEIId
2 TION (NO , BILL.
On the motion or lir. C. LIMA, this bid passed
committee.

POPULATION BILL.
Oa the motion of Mr. C. Lewis, the different. esu•er
this bill were agreed to.
. MACOItEOOII. moved the addition of r.cht•,!..tto
viding a variety of minute statistical rcturrt•• re` 'r••' !
employments, productions, possessions, sc.! religt .11. ter..
of the nt
Mr. C. dweLewis llers in aoric
Srrlt o.uural districts.
and Guar oppee. .1 the re,•r:.5..;
which encumber the returns. and must delay' the cool'o'•4°
of the circus.
Ater some discussion th motion was h.!rorn. A
similf ar bill (or Ireland was a e ftetwsrds carried rbrouah
sitter. gee. e-
Mr. C. LEIS, in ely to a uestion of ea h. •
man, said that the 314 r tr
ot March w qas tiled instead of the
of June for the census, in consequenco of the r
bitiou next year having boon five.' to he held May.
POPULATION (IRELAND) *JILL 114, „,._
The house then went into committee on Ws bill.
several clauses were agreed w, and the Woe resumed.

otiotr
bterel.

OPrilai

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40CIIIAL ASSESSMENTS DILL
',opined mita this day Ora months.
IletiANT SEAMAN'S FUND BILL
mooed said Cara y time mouths, after a
which Mf.ell, Mr. C. Lewis, sad
OOPS joined.
RAILWAY AUDIT DILL.
that this bill also should be postponed for
r',twn's;
ai
meted the posetantest, eves at this late
n. to r.ceo with it. No interest is the
rtd eu meth Irani kaislatton as the railway
oil sonic meager* on the subject should be
td.
possibl. Ti. clauses obieeted
istimem ratnhi be widadrawin, wed the
'died and isnobjectimiable form.
UERE said the bill bad come hem the
tam sod there hating bets so much
be pen ct the railway interests, it would
to reseed with it this stesion. As to
la by Lira Stanley In the Wave
,11r. lailsauckert) could not conscientiously
*light it Gobi should he absolutely
upin the c*, then one which did
y an Illative and independent system of

Mita d seussisa, for porpoise
wa• sgfil,el
E SPIRITS IN BOND BILL.
/,VI late COOSitle• se this bal.
.1.1.011 of :be EXCHEQUER oared that
ir lnf e seee this say dotes mead's.
the rt
salsa l9B
AO" 121

city .se the eseudeneett .... 1
ref evetior teat early next probes he should
committee to esquire into the subject of
, • la AMa•
llttliP Mara to ask the noble lard (Lard
Arc such tuejarity, he would dare
tit. (It in of lasihter.)
rorCLATION BILL,
jmtlit, u,,r.1 teat a 'obviate !narked
coca for etwriaje the occopatenns of
ana added to Schedule A No. 1,
. We taking as aattattut of the pupa-

that the weeds after the word

.
ra
aa sy. MI \MIA moved that the
Ara there lab a eat :9 members pre-
..lid id at a gamut to 2 o'clock.

riot(' Iff of the Hoots made
D.II mice Mt. S. Mettle against.
mind elf sismst the reps al of
.I.s r W W. Wynn.

Orameoss.

01 I nOING MAILS
Ihinth North America awl the ueit,g
:tie ap en the eventne of July 11,
, n. Spa* Gibraltar amt Gibralt us,"will be made
i_g 01 July 17.
: est:saw Bermuda. Haeassab,
w wad lassie* and includi
ng
„rs 4. . Jaan-derlitharagna.Now ()Tranvi a.
1611'.r. sad, op ea the mort.irg of July 17.
therein/a, Malta. Greece, the looms lalonos,
and Chisa. via
to
Ott aormin4 of July 20.
• ‘isreeilles, to the Mediterranean, 'pot,
hc.. will be made sp on the

r and Buenas Ayres, will
owning a Au4us: 4.

RATICS AT 1.0111)011 munoz.
.•_ Attrmosi,
• -Noma... A a. Yaws& Ss Ka

21-ESDAY, JULY 9.

convcrehend tte sertiment which
.e French Naiionc.l Assembly to pay an
rat unexampled tribute of respect to the
.hat great Eoglish statesman who is this
his grave. It was their admiration of
:cc, tut commardirg respect, wielded by
in. from the sole force of his character, hie
Eli his wisdom. Of all things this is what
me sot want—respect for any one cf their
The worst symptom with them is, that
or no man has authority with or power
Nor could personage or politician be
in whose honour the publ:c could put
veemion to power they would hail. or in
.•to tey could repose.
n.• moot deplorable defects of the French
lltics. • • ..-e is indeed the rapidity and reckless-
Err, wi•• hit uses up and destroys political chso
nx:cr. N r this the peculiarity of the republic,
mar si trish as it was of the monarchy. For the
ors C.-.-setsrietic of the monarchy, and especially of
L :•:-.l.l:tuvre, was the completeness and rapidity
with which he destroyed the chaiacter and
prerige of a politician, from the moment
that he began to trust and to employ him.
It was, indeed, the King's policy to do so, for be de-
tested a puhlic character that had influence or weight
independent of himself. The long reign of Louis
hi:LIPPE did not produce a single statesman. Those
who rose to influence in his day were trained and
race before 1830; 1830 to 1848, the eighteen years
a monarchy, did not produce and did not leave be-
hind it a man. The Orleans dynasty, in fact, took
France as a faros, communicwed to It not a scruple
of strength or ferility, but took from it crop after
crop. both of wealth and intellte, for their own
MIA purposes, leaving it too exhausted and barren
to bear more than the weeds we see.
These reflections on the de popularization and
absence of statesmen of influence is France,
cottrested with the honours ',lid to eminence,
heing or departed, hem, prompt the question
as to wheher we ourselves are very secure
of a loctersion of respected statesmen. And
this at once suggests another proof of the cafe
sad providence which marked the character of Sr
It . List PEEL. He, indeed, sedulously reared and
slirwilded himself with a band of young and capable
pc: tears. He certainly tale thought for the
asocession of power and for the carrying on
et his opiniom to future generations. Have
the sit'm shown the same foresight? We set.
ablt veterans on the Tressury bench. But where are
their political heirs apparent? Where are the young
men whom they have chosen, not for connexion but
for talent? Where is the popular element, which
they, above all parties, ought to have taken :care to
disc.ver rad appropfmte for the invigorating of their
effete ..td seistocrauc party ? Have they not selfishly
ken clesorhed in the retiutiag of place and influence
for their old selves, instead of rearing up iced to the
politica'. Aiiitanam, as Sir ROBERT PEEL, with mai
narrower influence m the head of a national party,
strove and tuckmded in doing ?
Bit to return to the great compliment which tbs
French Chamber and its President, M. DUPLE., paid
to ILI, late Sir ROBERT PEEL, we cannot say that it
was founded essay identity of feeling. The great and
motile aim of our deceased statesman, to compel the
donainut sod landed class to part with some of their
advantages fur the raising of the condition of the
indiatricsas and virossercial community, is suite unfelt',
in the French Chamber, where protection in politics
and political economy, and the accumulating die ad-
meteors of a class at the expense of the community,
is a- touch in vogue as in the Carl-on Club.
With acme of the French, however, and, indeed, pro-1
Isolable, with M. Deem himself, the chief reason of
the compliment to Sir ROBERT PEEL wan to con-
trot his foreign policy with that of the Whip. If
le, it was a mean and a false comparison. Sir
Bonen Peen ever regarded foreign politics as
second-rate in importance ; but when he did torn his'
mind or hi', slouch to them, he could be spirited eal
any man. Never were there uttered in the Homo it,
Commons from the mouth of a minister declara-
time of greater spirit, and even defiance, than those
uttered by Sir Itoem PEEL, on the Tahiti aggres-
sion of the French. Nor ever was a fuller determi-
titian spoken than that which he uttered in the midst
of the Oregon dispute.
On no grounds, therefore, can the French ream
tinkle claim sympathy with the statesman whom all
regret. hie Itt,IIERT PEEL, for all the better and in-
fluential years of his life, was a progressist. And it is
as such that the country from one end to the other
15 Ozziooi, and enthusiastic to pay to his memory
every tribute of iespect. Ever 7 town and
community evinces this; even Birmingham, where
both his monetary and his free-trade reforms were
more questioned than in any civic community of the
kingdom. The citizens of that town propose to close
their shutters during the two hours in which the
funeral at Tanewoeth takes place. Those of London
will not be wanting in similar respect.
And thus it will be shown that if free-trade
hes lost a champion, it has at the some time
engraven a ptinciple indelibly. And whilst the
mortal remains of Sir ROBE/ET Pus. are borne to

their last reetisg-place, the cause, which, if be aided
originate, be at least rave his best miles' s and sea
rificed his power to establish, resales arid/ weed is
1 the law of the 000DU7. sad enthasisatical4
is i'a hose.

Om the 4th of June, 1839, Sir Heatarm FLMIT,
WOOD eramitted to the House of Commons a mods*
for ea amendment of the Refeerbreaohtit.se
.aeraMsgale
a character that it at easeaff!
nearly 100 members. The has. toleeltre .IProPial
aas to extend the right of in Imam to the
occupiers of houses of the Meat annul yds, of 10L,
'asis at present done is bormsba. He was able to
I show that, as the phrase game lie teadeney of sash a
!Measure would be "eimismatlver that It iileteiti
admit to the franchise a body of gesdassa slime.
leer, property, and eleAfee, who are at the pima
time excluded fees Om right of voting la Nam
queue of accidents commuted with their resides's. A
gentleman taking up asefraide resides°, in Devesehire,
fur instance, rents a hems at 401. a year, bat is re-
eluded from voting beams he has not ea many
Multiage worth of freehold land in the same county.
♦ Liedon merchant rents a villa on the Brighton line
et railway. If it is at litigate he is placed upon the
nester as a voter for that borough ; bat if it is at
!Csyydon he is precluded from exercising the privilege
of an Englishman, because, though Croydon is twice
the size of Reigate, the schedules of the Reform Aot
the one town is a county, whilst they made •
hof the other. Ihe absurdity and impropriety
of this arrangement was admitted. 'I he desirability
of amendment was allowed. Lord ions RUSSELL
himself expressed his belief " that the prac-
tical effect at such a chino would be
that the electoral body would rather be
improved than otherwise by the addition." No
serious objection was made to the proposal, which
was opposed on merely technical and parliamentary
consid-rations. Sir Rostra Pm. was the only
member who raised his voice priest it upon princi-
ple, and his argument was based entirely upon " the
anal settlement" mourned to have been contemplated
by the Perliamentary lteform Act.
Eleven years have since passed without the small-
est extension of the suffrage being at any time
adopted. Vastly as the nation increases in opulence,
in intelligence, in population—the tendency of our
electoral system has been to check, rather than to en-
courage tee exercise of the undoubted right of
Englishmen. The grievances and the anomalies of
our representative system have become more dove-'
loped, their operation is daily becoming better under-
stood, and the feeling of the people with respect el
them is certainly greatly strecgthened. It is at this
time that it is proposed, with only too great a degree
of moderation, to renew the motion of 1839, and to
take the opinion of parliament on the very just and
simple extension of the right of voting ehich Sir
lIESKITH FLIETWOOD then proposed.
Mr. Lome KING, who submits such motion to the
House of Commons this evening, has practical experi-
Sees as a county member of the unequal e [firs of the!
enlisting law. The question to which he asks a reply
is this :—Why is not a 101. householder in the country
as well qualttied to vote as a 101. householder living
in a town? if any one can give a satisfactory
answer to that question, we cede the subject. We
want to know why an arbitrary line marked down upon
a map at the discretion of a boundary commia,iocer
should disqualify as a voter a gentleman living upon
one side of it, whilst it would qualify the same
I
gentleman if he lived upon the other side?
Yet such are the anomalies of the county
system of England and Wales. We need scarcely
say that they do not stop here. A man living Ma!
borough town, in his own freehold house, is at the
present time divested of his right to vote fur the
county in which he lives by virtue of that freehold;
but let the same man happen to live, nct as a five-
holder, but as a tenant, in the house adjoining to his
own, then he has a right of voting not only for the
borough, but for the county Mae. Let him go and
lire abroad, disseveriog himself entirely from resi-
dence upon his property, and he then absolutely has
the right of voting which is entirely denied to him it
he lives upon that property.
These seomalies nave grown, to some extent, out of
the operation of the CIIANDOS clause. But that is no
reason why they should be perpetuated. The proper
system of reform is that which remedies defects when-
ever they become developed practically. &lice the
passing of the Reform Bill we have been discovering
such defects daily. At every succeeding election they
have become more and more exaggerated. What has
been done to remedy the evil ? The statute book, as
regards measures of redress, presents almost an entire
blank, el' bough the authors of the Reform Act have
held office for no less than 13 of the 20 years since
that measure was into a law.
We look with itiletore interest to the debate pro-
posed to-night, because the present is really a moment
when the public may fairly desire to know something
of the views of ministers upon the subject of reform.
The liberal party have not been impatient : on the
centime., great forbearance has been shown, and a
strong disposition has been evinced to wait for the
measures which the government might think proper
to pre-ent to parliament. We need scarcely say,
that the motion itself, however far it might
have gone to satisfy the country in 1839, would hill
far short not only of public expectation, but of gene-
ral requirement at present. Elva Lord BRo':GUAM
insists on giving the franchise to artisans; and we
cannot see why all, who have a stake in the hedge,
be it ever so slender, should not have a vote at
the hustings. Amendments of detail must now
give way before gent ral mei/urea of reform. But
amendments of details often involve great principles,
and are still more frequently calculated to elicit the
discussion of great principles. Th's is one of those
occasions, and we look with anxiety to the mode in
which different parties may employ it.

FRANCE.
PARIS, MONDAY EVENINO.
A scene of the greatest gravity bee taken place in
the Assembly in the course of the debate oa the law
of the prmess, wh:ch came on to-dsy. M. It ulter, in
the course of his speech, designated the revolution of
February as a disutrous catastrophe. At this word
the whole opposition r se, and with tremendous
clamour called as the president to call the minist r to
order. This M. Depiu refused to do; but called M.
Girardin to order instead. After the noise and tumult
which lasted halts- -hour, were someibbat abated,
M. Girardin, having mounted the tribune to
explain, declared that he, for cne, would not
sit in an Assembly in which the revolution of
February wu declared a disutrous event far France,
without the speaker being called to order.
Still more offensive was the conduct of the president
in exiting to order a representative who did his duty
in protesting against language so unconstitutional,
and so particularly improper in the mouth of a mi-
nister. He thought that if the minister was not call-el
to order, all the members of the opposition ought to
relinquish their seats in the Assembly. Tl.is opinion
of M. Girardin did not, however, seem to Hod a uni-
versal echo on the benches of the Left, and was re-
ceived by the Right with jeers. He then descended,
quite pale with excitement, and proceeded to write on a
sheet of paper,it was thought, a resignation of his seat
in the Assembly, with the motives of this act. The
sitting terminated immediately &Leeward' in the
greatest disorder.
The electoral lists, drawn up in virtue of the sew
law, have been published in the mayories. The nuasel
bar of electors for Paris is about 74,000, that is len
by 130,000 than the number of electors for Paris on
the lists of March last according to the old law,
which accounted to 224,000. The difference in the
provinces will not be so enormous.
The house was not much fuller than usual to-day
at the beginning of the debate on the press, and the
reports of the crowded audience that would fill the
tribunes were completely belied. The public are in-
sensible to political crests of the gravest interest. It
was oral) on Saturday that the fact was published to
the world, that 150,000 electors of Paris had been
disfranchised by the electoral law of thence of May.
It bar been received with every sppe of the
calmest indifference. The ascent of M. Poitevin,
dangling astride on a pony from a balloon, is en affair
which interests the Parisians at the present moment
far mere than laws which concern their dearest

liberties.
First the question of urgency wu disclaimed. M.
Emile de Girardin demanded to speak with reference'
to the was
of the home, and maintad that a special
report was aseemeary to establish a case f
urgency.
M. de Bt. Priest observed that the report wu explicit
enough_ this point. The Assembly inclining to
this the incident dropped.

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