The Express.
London, England, 1861-05-17 00:00:00

TILE FXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, MAY 17, 1861.

cusTois ntrnm (INDIA).
The Earl of AIRLIE inquirol whether the government
toldremed any represenutions to the local government
Inrha on the subject of the ci.torns duties which were
inipused lam year on manufactured articles imported into
India. Previously to last year the duties varied from sto
9/ per cent., but they hod been cli.in4ed to a uniform ad
valorem duty c 1U per cent., which pressed ham* ou cot.
to. mid other articles.
Earl DE GREY sad RIPON Mated that in this altera-
tion of duties it was not intended to establish a system of
protection, and if they partook of that character ho was
sure that whenever they could be safely remover], no num-
tem of protection would be allowed to stand in the way.

Earl latEY stated in substance that he was conviDeed
that it war not intended to establish protective duties ; but
it was the fact Out the duties in question had operated as
protvctive, and e•ftwcially in reference to the article of
,utton,
The subject then dropped, and the house adjourned at
twenty minutes to 7.

UOUSE OF OOMMONS.—THuRSDAT, MAT 16.
The sewuta took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills were reed a third time and passed :
rooterlr and Stanhope Itailway ; London and North
Weeteri, and Manche ter, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Keil-
wei • lMaticheder Loudon •rord Station); Manchester and
rind; Mid Wales Radars). ; St. George's liar-
boor ; and Prire's Patent Candle Company.
Tlui following bills were ordered to be coosickred :—Dub-
lin soil Antrim Junction Railway, and Uxbridge and Rick-
rasasworth ltsil way.
PERSECUTION OF PROTESTANTS IN SPAIN.

Sir R. PEEL pee notice that be would to-morrow put s
spesonion to the noble lord at the heed of the goverment
with reference to all sadism which bad been Kneeled to
her Majesty on the subject of the persecution of protestant,
SPai•-
• THE C,ONPF.DERATE STATES OF AMERICA.
Mr. GRFAIORY pee notice that he would postpone to
Friday, the 7th of Jute, the question entitling an hie oats
all relrieuce to her Mansty'o governmeot acknowledging the
niddposloice of the Co' ofederated States of Americo.
THE ATLANTIC ROYAL NAIL STEAM COMPANY.
11A114 BETWEEN GALWAY AND AMERICA.
Mr. BAXTER asked the Chancellor of tbe Exchequer if
the government had terminated the contract entered into
with the Atlantic Royal Mail dream Company for carrying
the moils between Calm sod America.
Lord DUNKELLIN mid before his right hon. friend an-
swered the question he wished to ask whether it would be
in sword:one with the reecinimeodations of the committee of
last year, which at to inquire into mail contracts, to put an
sad to 3 contract before it was brought under the considera-
tion of the house. (Load opposition cheers.)

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The ques-
tion put by nay noble friend is rather a question for an
opinion epos • point of duty. I have no hesitation in say-
ing that I think it is the duty of the government, if in any
awe it shook think there in a necessity for its exercising
its lawful pewits, to put an end to • eoatract mitered into
between the executive and a company. (Hear, heat) It
is my opinion that it is the clear duty of the government to
exercise its josur in potting an end to such contract with-
, out in the test in daces consulting the House of Commons:
but after doing so it ought to put the House of Commons
is posemsion of the fullest mains to enable it to pies • judg-
ment upon its conduct. With respect to the question put
by my lion friend behind me, I will ouofine myself to reed-
ing the closing surds of a letter written by my noble friend
the Pied mager • I ;M111.1%11 ti) the secretary, of the Galivey Com-
l. puny, and likewise the note which he has received from the
secretary in My noble friend wrote his letter yester-
day, and it ends with these word*: " That media these cir-
,uoiet.inceii, and on a review of the whole case, the Post-
' master. (meal feels that, in the die/charge of his public duty,
' he has no other alternative than to declare that the contract
is at an end ; and he desires therefore to send the accompa-
nying notice to that effect." The note which my noble
friend has received frau the secretary of the company, Mr.
Boater, is dated the 16th of May. !Ail, and writing in the
name of the company he says : " Sir,- The letter received
frees the Postmaster4leoeral, and delivered at half•past five
o'clock yesterday aternixin at the office of the company,
codeine an intimation that the Geiser contract is put an
end to. If time were permitted, the company
would be prepared to join issue upon all the rea-
rms that are est forth by the Poatimeter-GeneraL
I greatly regret that the question has cane to this issue.
I ern desired to request that this statement may be added
to the answer which will he given to the question placed on
the miner by Mr. Baxter." All these documeate will of
course he presented to the home. (Hear, bear.)

THE MERCHANT SHIPPING ACTS.
Sir H. STRACEY said that great diaappointment
had been felt et several of the ports of England in come-
purees of the delay which had taken piths in reference to
the istroduotios of the bill to emend the Merch►nt
Shipping Acta, and therefore he begged to ask the
President of the Board of Trade when he proposed to
bring is his bill to armed these sets, and of which he bad
at different times gives notice.

Kr. M. GIEISON said tin cease tithe postponements was
eimpiy, because he did sot like to put the notice on the
peps without there being a fair chance of considering the
MIL Aa at present advised, he would after the Whitsuntide
holidays endeavour to groomed with the measure, and he
hoped that, aa there would be no matters in the bill which
would give rise to diacomics, or anate difference of opinion,
the house would speedily give their sanction to it.

of the hook, end lease him tb take his own ecru. H.
win exceediegly tarry that this matter bed takes place.
Lord HAA!, said there was not the slightest dlissourteny
on the part cf the bun. member for Cloomel. The com-
mittee was at the time engaged in rather an irregular pro-
ceeding, for in truth they were examining Dr. Farr upon re-
gistration in Ireland, and he suggested that his evidence
iliould be taken • the committee, however, ruled otherwise.
He thought, under the aireuthatanom, there could have
been no objection to the bon. geotleman the member for
Meath (Mr. ilacEvo)) remaining in the room. The rule
referred to by the hoe, member fur Cloumel (Mt. Bagwell)
did sot apply to disease. (Hear, hear.)
After an übservatien from Mr. Mecum the sieetimion
terminated.

ratified. If all that was wanted was to procure
• repeal of the paper duty, wby not send up that measure
is a single bill, which it was generally blalieved would not
be again rejected by the Howe of Lords. (Hear, hear.)
Surely they might assume that to be true, and would not
such a course be more courteous than the present? But it
was said they had another object, they wanted to raise
another question, and the Lords having exercised cer-
tain powers last session it was determined that
they should never exercise them again. But sup-
pose the Howie of Lords said they would not cede
that power without an appeal to the country? (Opposition
cheers.) The country might side with the Loeb ; they
might say, "Why brood over the matter for ten mouths,
sod then give the Lords this stab in the back I" The Lord.
might consider that they had arrived at • turning point in
the constitution ; that it was their duty to resist to the ut-
most the bringing of themselves under the yoke of a new
power in the House of Commons. Then the Loral might not
exercise their extreme right, but might accept the finance,
but at the same tame find means of repelling
the affront. Would not the position of the Commons then
biome on. of humiliation? They might regret such a pro-
ceeding of the Lords and appeal to the country. On what
issue? On their confidence in the present House of Coin. I
mope. (Ironical cheers.) Had not the great liberal party
forfeited all its pledges on the subject of reform, and might
not the country say that they were screening their own
delinquency by seeking to pick a quarrel with the
House of Lords, and that the public duty would
be to return • House of Commons as unlike
as possible to the last. They might say they had very
little for which to thank that House of Commons, but
they might still thank God they had • House of Loth&
(Opposition cheers.) The hon. member for Birmingham
appealed to the ancient usages of the House of Commons,
but be should recollect that one half, and that a strong
half of that house, would side with the House of Lords.
The right hoc. baronet the member for Carlisle might find
himself dragged at the chariot wheels of democraey, but
the very approach of that democracy would rally all that
was good in the country round the constitution.
It would not be under the banner of the noble lord the
member for Tiverton that the new powers would advance.
Every one knew that the noble lord had been coerced by
stronger men. The Chancellor of the Exchequer would be
received with acclamations in ,srtain districts, the name of
the hon. member for Birmingham would be a tower of
strength to hie friends. They had both been manly and
consistent throughout, but as teethe noble lord the member
for Tiverton, his name would never be heard in the conflict.
He would be assuredly a man of more unbending spirit and
different purpose, sod the cry of the democratic advance of
that minority by whom he was coerced would be the knell
of the noble lord's cabinet, the dispersion of his followers,
and the enthronment of his opponents in power. (Opposi-
tion cheers.)
Mr. PULLER dissented from the sentiments expressed
by Mr. Hemmen, who, he said, had endeavoured to stir up
the embers of discord, and claimed for the House of Lords
larger privileges than they contended for. That house bad,
in is opinion, hat year encroached upon the privileges of
the Commons ; but this was the fault of the Commons in
1 sending up the measure repealing the paper duty as a
sepande bill • and now when the question again arose, the
government intd properly included the whole financial
scheme in one bill.

Mr. NEWDEGATE was not prepared to assert for the
House of Commons the pretensions put forth in this bill,
which uuduly curtailed the rights and privileges of the
other house, and was not sanctioned by anything in the
resolutions. Ile adoption of this bill would, he contended,
increase the power of the crown in the House of Commons,
and thus enable it to forge fetters for the house.
Mr. MELLOR protested against the doctrines laid down
by Mr. Horsetail as to the functions of the House of Lords
and its relation to the House of Commons, and particularly
that the former was entitled to sit as a court of review over
the latter. He denied the construction which Mr. Hem-
men had put upon the resolutions of last year, and his gloss
upon the speech of Lend Palmerston. The main argument
of Mr. Maadonough, he observed, depended upon whether
this bill was • " tacking" bill. Thu was no we of
" tacking ;" his whole objection, therefore, fell to the
ground.
Mr. MALIN'S said, if the doctrine propounded by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer was correct, that the House
of Lords had no right to have any voice in matters of taxa-
tion, the sooner they came to the conclusion not to send
money bilis to that house the better. He admitted that
this was not • tacking bill in the exact sense of the term -
but, if Kaman were deliberately introduced into • bill
which the House of Lords had no opportunity of voting
upon, this came within the principle of tacking. The
power of the upper house to reject a mono bill was con-
ceded ; then what was the justification for iog from
the course taken last year, when the Paper ty Repeal
Bill was seat up as a separate measure, especially when
there was no MOOD to anticipate its rejection ?He did not,
however, oppose the second reading of the bill.
Kr. WHALLEY spoke shortly in support of the bill.
Sir & NORTHCOTE, restricting his observations to the
form of the bill, said a question of (great importance arose,
which had almost escaped attention—namely, that the
house was about to make • large amount of the taxation
20,000,000 f.—annual, depending upon the vote of the house
from year to year, and he suggested the danger that was
to be apprehended if the financial views of Mr. Bright
were adopted. The renewal of the income tax from year
to year would give rise to class dissensions and to proposals
to alter the rates under particular schedules.

Mr. LOCKE considered that the whole country was
agreed upon the paper duty. His constituents had told
him they were in favour of the budget. The constitutional
question, he thought, had bees metaled by the speech of Sir
J. Graham, and that the right course was to send up the
bill me it was.

Mr. W. E. BUNCOMBE, upon inanciel and constitu-
tional grounds, condemned the proposal of the government,
the object of which wee, he said, to obtain the support of
the member for Birmingham.

Lord PALMEHSTON said—We began this discussion
with the expression of great doubts on the other side as to
whether there will be soy surplus at all, and the results
predicted by my right hon. friend were denied, and the
whole scheme was said to be fallacious. (Hear, bear.)
After there had been a great amount of discussion it was
generally admitted that there will be • surplus—(bear,
hear)—end that admission wee not merely made in words,
but made by • motion, because those those who began it by
disputing a surplus ended by proposing that a much
amount of duties should be repealed than would absorb tiro
surplus mentioned by m right honourable friend.
That was one step in the progress of this matter.
Then arose • question whether the tea duties
or the paper duties should be repealed, and • great
attempt was made in favour of the former, but now there
was no dispute as to whether the paper or tea duties
should be abolished or reduced. That is step the
second, and very satisfactorily established. (Hear,
beer.) Then arose • graver question—namely, • question
between the two houses of parliament, and • series of ob-
rislared jectioas were against the method proposed by my
right boa. f ' of putting the whole arrangements of the
year into one I, and it was said to be an outrage u
the other house of parliament. That has been the sub
of diminution for many hours, but this evening we have
beard that this question is of no importance at all. (Load
cries of " Hear, hear.") We were told by the has. baronet
the member for Stamford (Sir S. Northcote) that whether
we put the arrangements into oee bill, two, three, or four
bil* be did not can one six roam about it. (Hear, hear.).
Well then, we have established our surplus, received the
=StShoham in respect of the paper duties repeal,
of
have an entire acquisition* in the arrangements
proposed by my right hon. friend. The questions being
settled sad all of us agreed, there starts up soother question,
totally unconnected with all the others, namely, whether
the taxes shall be voted annually or for a term of years.
That is so new question, but whether it is a satisfactory one
or not I will leave hoe. gentlemen to decide during the
Whitsuntide holidays. We being so far agreed I was in
hopes that the termination of our discussions might be
peaceful and satisfactory, but up got the right hon. gentle-
man the member for Strand (Mr. Horaman), and be threw
• torch sod discord into our comparatively peaceful debate.
The right hon. gentleman wanted to set everybody by the
ears, and in order to do so he first endeavoured to show that
there is dimension in the cabieet, then hg,endeavoured to
bring the two houses into collision, and then he hoped to
carry his intentions still further by bringing about a disagree-
ment between the House of 001111310121 and their constituents.
Well, all I can say is, that with regard to the first he will
ant obtain his desires. (Cheers) I am sure he will not
succeed by any taunts in creating dissensions in the cabinet.
(Cheers.) I am equally convinced that he will not be suc-
cessful, if all be true which we have heard announced on
the subject, in creating collision or hostility between the
two houses of parliament. (Hear, hese) That is • very',
satisfactory consideration. (Cheers.) With regard to any
hostility between the House of Commons and their coo-
ls* siitußoud cheers)—s king generally, and for the
house as s body, 1 am y convinced the right hon. gen-
tleman's predictions fail ; but so far se his observa-
tions may be fou upon any load knowledge—
(loud cheers and laughter, in which the noble
lord heartily joined)—the case may be different.
The right bon. gentleman may MOMS In regard to one
particular electoral body spacial knowledge epos this sub-
ject. (Hear, hear.) la oanclusica, I ata only state that
there is a well-known test which says, "Bleared are the
terken." (" Oh, oh," and laughter.) But what the
or those may be who endeavour to sow the seeds of
discord and are promoters of quarrels in not a point quite
so clearly defined. (Loud laughter.) Whatever their fate
may be, I am stare the right bon. gentleman is destined to
share it. (Loud cheers and laughter.)
Mr. DISRAELI arraigned the financial policy of the
government, who, he said, bad crested an artificial surplus
in order that they might perpetrate • financial caprice. By
• bare majority of 18, who so voted because they shrunk
from the responsibility of disturbing the governments they
had succeeded in passing • resolution which was not to be
submitted to the revision of the other house of parliament.
He complained of the occult influences which were, be
said, straining the constitution. If the repeal of the proer
duty was sent up last year as • separate bill why should
it ant be done now? The right hoe. gentleman continued :
We meet consider what has occurred in the interval. It is
the conduct of the House of Lords in the interval that war
sioned you this year to include in one bill the measures
which List yoar you did not include in °tie bill. Aid what
has been the conduct of the House of Lords? It bas been
pronounced by the right boo. gentleman (Ilir J. Owthaia),
• great authority. to have been perfectly legit:Last
wit=
is then, it not on amount of its illegal or •
thematic that you ma objet to it. Is it its

policy that you object to ? What has hem
its policy ? The House of Lords were of opinion
that the financial measures of the govern-
ment, as sent up to them, would leave it deficit for the year
just concluded. Therefore they used their legal right—a
rt which is not contested in the house by any one except,
I believe, the Chancellor of the Exchequer—to prevent •
branch of the permanent revenue of the country being
abolished. (Hear.) What has been the remit! You had
a deficit of 2,500,00 W. at the end of the year, and were it
not for the course taken by the House of Lords that deficit
would have been 3,500,0001. The conduct of the
House of Lords then was legal, was constitu-
tional, was politic. It was wise, indeed, and
most advantageous to the public interest. Then what is the
real ground on which we are called upon to adopt •
course exactly the contrary of last year ? It must be this
or nothing—to deprave the House of Lords of the exercise
of a power which you admit was wise, legal, constitutional,
and which the nation has ratified as sound and politic.
(Cheers.) That is the real and complete view of the ques-
tion, and there is no meaning in language if the noble lord,
when he introduced them resolutions, contemplated a '
course like the course which be is now advising. (Hear.)
And what does the noble lord gain by taking this course ?
The noble lord had carried on the business of the house
with the aid of that friendly forbearance which he cannot
say has ever been seriowily disturbed during this mission.
But what is the position of the noble lord now? The noble
lord, the session being advanced, has brought forward a
policy which none would have expocted, because it is
totally opposed to the speech by which he interpreted the
resolutions which were adopted by the house last year with
regard to the conduct of the House of Lords. In faith and
trot of that interpretation of the noble lord's, he now
finds himself in the House of Commons, where his autho-
rity is severely contested, and when • division
is called for in order to put that to the test, the noble lord
only escapes by a majonty of • most ambiguous character.
(Hear, hear.) I say it has rot been a wise movement on
the part of the noble lord that he should have unnecessarily
raised these conllizts ; and when we are told "blessed are
the peacemakers," and when we listened to that brilliant
retort addressed to the right hon. gentleman, whose only
fault wan that he offered a most logical answer to the
speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and other hon.
gentlemen on this very question, I would say to the noble
lord the& he is the Man who has raised unnecessary dis-
cords in this house— (hear, hear)—that be is the
man who has unnecessarily provoked disunion and
caused his authority to be questioned, when before at
lout it was not chelleoged. We are not at all afraid of
the position in which the question is placed, and we entirely
repudiate the accusations made that we have provoked un-
necessary debate. I have that confidence in public opinion,
that I am sure the general sentiment is that this was •
question requiring discussion—that under all the circum-
stances deliberation was but that in the peculiar
circumstances under which we found ourselves, when the
ministry introduced a strange and almost unprecedented
course of procedure, which deprived the other house
entirely of its privilege of revision, it peculiarly
became our duty that our deliberation Mould
be doubled, and that we should proceed with the
utmost caution. I think the course the government took in
adopting that procedure was extremely nowise—l will not
say mean in device and malignant in conception.
("Oh, oh.") I will not say that, but I will say that when it
is introduced to us as • policy of conciliation, one might
almost he justified to retort anything. We are erfectly con-
tent with the position in which this question is put. When
we are asked to divide on the second reading of the bill, we
can smile at imputations which those who prompt them
cannot justify. We have amended to the reduction of the
income tax, and that is &principal part of the measure be-
fore us. How then is it in our power to oppose the second
reading! But do not let the noble lord suppose
we have in any degree assented to the policy
contained in the measure, beyond that portion
which concerns the settlement of the income tax. We re-
serve to ourselves our right on the proper occasion to take
that comes with respect to all the other questions
contained in this measure which is open to us;
and, sir, that is • course perfectly parliameotery,
and although I should not be astonished if the
Chancellor of the Exchequer should rise and say it is on.
eonstitutional—indeed we have heard the right bon. gentle-
man declare that when resolutions had been passed in this
house it was not open to the house to challenge the pro-
priety of that policy afterwards—still we shall quietly
avail ourselves of our constitutional right, and when the
fit occasion offers we shall hold ourselves free
to take any course, with respect to the policy
contained in the bill, which we may think advantageous to
the country. (Hear, hear.) I say that to the noble lord,
becausethe other night, in one of his gay effusions in which
he is so happy, he proved to his own satisfaction—and
I trust his slumbers were rosy in consequence—that we
had given in our sdhesion to every portion of the measure.
The noble lord must not remain any longer under that
delusion. From the first we agreed to the passing of the
resolutions, in order that the bill might be brought in ;
and that at • proper and fit period, in the manner we
thought most judicious, in the mode we thought most
conducive to the public interest, and most calculated to
promote the sod we desire, we should challenge a policy
which, speaking genendly, we entirely disapprove end
which we believe each day finds less for the advanage of
the people of England.
The second reeding was then agreed to, and the bill
ordered to be committed on Monday week.

GUILDFORD HOSPITAL BILL.
This bill peeped through committee.
EXCISE AND STAMPS BILL

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
second reading of this bill.
Mr. HENN MET said the bill would give rise to some
discussion. The resolutions upon which it was founded
the committee almost without discussion, and he
paused
the second reading would not be pressed at that

TIM CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER mid the re-
solutions bad received full discussion, and be tnuted that
there would be no opposition to the bill passing the present
stage.
The bill was then read a second time.

PUBLIC OFFICES EXTENSION (REVENUE).
The report upon the resolution of the committee was
brought up, and leave was given to bring in a bill founded
upon it.
The Cork Inirmary Bill parsed through committee.
The Volunteers Tolls Exemption (No. 2) Bill was read a
second time.

The Landed Property Improvement, At. (Ireland) Bill
pasted throufh oommittee.
The Combination of Parishes Dissolution (Scotland) Bill
was mad a third time and passed.
SALMON AND TROUT FISHERIES (ENGLAND).
Leers was given to Sir G. Lustig to introduce a bill to
amend the laws relating to fisheries of salmon and trout in
England.
RAILS, HIGHWAYS, AND STREETS.
Mr. AYRTON obtained leave to bring in a bill to facili-
tate the laying down of mils in the highways and streets of
England.
The house adjourned at twenty minutes to one o'clock.