The Express.
London, England, 1850-04-13 00:00:00

mat, ea haportiat seismal wake, d wry
Imp amber of movies, tad NM the alligaVor
t the. Meet
mature thet
organleatioa of thatagllC:l,l What
that seemed *sic Bat thenghtlie; work, the ef
s barker of feke":43l" illtigialbl4=l.
whoa
sin, ea tea
w that tea ORM IthMetilt vish • 'fiffiulfilbeled
balidiag, triable& met air mentola Sem, sad werealiet:
Wed to *mak • wry large weber of Osman is the
mooed Mtge of their eintesem—the employment ea with* of
pablie himett—totil se works ea *Well employ rm.
Peados tram Ilk mead stemv to *steal transportades, he
that gee Kale Of the Mashies
id= goveremeat had the to blateratured.lt=rl:
mile lima peen& to
pawl w`
dm system without
tiSeaties. hat gr.at pod wee eseamptod with the graft
of sesignment of omelets, sad the pciaciplo had boss tee
hauls almoissed. Uador the system asw pro-
posed, tharekteseld not he a maw somber of sethists
trommeeted time throlefore for all ibis male imitate
were still a go oat of 'this ematry. Whet me
muff,. that, was then that the colonists woad I.
willies to nano them ? It wail well karts that groat en.
marigemeat had bees gime to Tan Diemea's Laced, by the
esseseetal mambas, .(the Gape of Goad Hope, to rotas,
trany mere measielo Mrs mat there, ispoidally whoa
eal apematiss had Men boldest to the °okay by the go•
vsramsaL that, Is.. Ned Mr • attain time, transportation
to V.. lasi iambi mom. Now it it appeared it
was net es them bet to codasto m fall aa extent as it
hod wee bees married a ; and Vas Dlemea's Lead was the
way esleay to which it was peeped to mad atavism except
the emelt member that were to to seat to Western Animate.
What Nevi' had the immanent that the °okay would
set teat the bereduaticat of those convict.; or,
If Mods{ mairity hod 'boy that all the moral, and, still
seen, tb• coononslini liteneWenisMill which ever amorapealed
W swilog of • vast assitar et male convicts to the colony,
would sate renewed? Ha mateaded that the goverameat
was this, trom head to mu.tk se a matter which it was
meet t should he dealt with effectively.
Lewd ONTEAOLE thought it most important that the
moral affect of the fear of transportation Amid be lespla
on the criminal population at house. Amongst I
criminals, transportation was dreaded more than death
itself. The general question of transporlatioa had
not had judos done it ; it had be.. Mewed
too made is • one-sided light ; and Um legisla-
tures lad ban horrified by ohs details of its immorality.
Thole*. Emma of Australia (84 Richard Booths) had ape
of the Velem of alideraillest, and said that great
had neelted Stager.. to the industrious swans;
he
dee Wiled to the moral imprommeat of as convicts.
Alit the Ilissreatary of State himself had condemned the Rya
to. Of immortalise, what weeder that the eulogists them-
MIMS shored in that hells, and resisted the landing of
areviste ? (Hear, bear) Ulises the whole sysam were
plead ate a different footing it would be extremely difficult
to orations it. He sew so fear of employment
waxing souse in Annelle ; the convicts might always
be usefully employed there as pioneers, in clearing lands,
mania, roads, sad so on. The government had acted nastily
in modgmaint transportation.
GEE said h. would first reply to the argument
about the Irish prisons. Is each year since the government
came into office a larger number of convicts had been
removed from Ireland than in the years preceding. The
overcrowding of the prisms was solely owing to the larger
numbers committed. The Icosd-Lieutinent of Ireland had
dna all in his pow.r to increase the means of disposing of
them. A lap estatdishment had been created on
Spam Ishad,:whers 1,200 or 1,400 prisoners were placed.
Aa setablishment on the model of Pentonulle had shoo been
formed, and was now in operation ; and he was not aware
that mom mold be done. When the pressut administration
cams into office they found Van Diemen'. Lead abooloily
choked with erimtmle ; by the adminion of everybody that
was theism. New South Wiles was way partially open
for the reception, under existing regulations, of a limited
member of oaths ; none but in di could be sent there or to
Part Phillip. Gibraltar and Bermuda had very scanty means
of rossiving convicts, and it was utterly impossible greatly to
therms* the number sent there ; in point of fact, at both
plasm there wan more than could be accommodated. At
Bermuda the accommodation was rspiny inereas
imi; and he hoped the prisoners there would soon
ho removed from the hulks, which was very dm!rable.
Two thble lords had objected to transportation altogether.
He denied not that some moral evils had arisen from sending
envies in large numbers to the penal colonies, but they had
been really ex +greeted ; and, comparing them with those
which existed under the system as at present worked, or
which would exist under any different mode of secondary
punishment, he greatly doubted whethir the balance would
not be in favour of transportation as it was formerly con
dueled. (Hear, hest) Wit bad the examples of otbir
countries boron as, and knew the frightful evils which re-
sulted in France from the army of forces now existing there
(Hear, hear.) There were now 'marg in the Australian
soloabis,—• large neajority of them earning their own liven-
hood,—no fewer than 49,000 persons who had passed through
sentences of transportation, who, had they remained in this
country, would, in all probability, have been compelled
to continue criminals in spite of themselves. (Hear, hear.)
Then it trust be recollected that communities in olosias
had been created by the convict system. By no other sys-
tem could they have created in that short spate of time e
muskies of that magnitude and of that wealth, because,
though it was tray that South Australia bad not been a con-
vict
colony, yet South Australia would in ver have rims as it
has rises bad it not been for the neighbourhood of convict
colonies. It had been enabled to draw fr thee colonies
calls and sheep, and all the m-terid meson of over-
coming the first (faculties of settlement. As to New South
Wales and Van Diemen's Lead they were the direct creation
of the system of transportation, and to Port Phillip the ob
sensation almost equally spplied. He said, then, the sys-
tem of transportation was one that ought not to be
abuidored ; but, at the lame time, the more he looked into
the circumstences the more Oh. opinion gained upon him
which he adopted some years ago—that the most penal part
of the sentences of transportati. n ought to be infinted et
home. He thought then bad been a good deal
of seguissosace on that view en both sides of
the hors. It eta admitted that there were opportunities
of supervision in this country which could not exist in the
colonies. The noble 1 ,rd bad objected to the works in Port-
land, saying that the weeks would not he in existence many
an, and then the whole establishment would bo %MM.
He (Earl Grey) thought that was an erronecus opinion. In
the first place, the buildings had been constructed with a
view to their übimets removal if necessary. Thu gnat bulk
of the building at Portland ware constructed of wool, with
a vi.vr to ultimata removal, it that removal was no-
oassary , and he believed they could be removed
for a comparativ. ly scull expense. Aud that wee net
all. As long as they had any public works at all,
the works at Portland would be of 'Cu.; and for this reason,
that the guarries at Portland were inexhaustible. The
was stone there which would last !or thousands of years, awl
of excellent quality. The convicts might be employed in
nisiog this stone and drawing it, and it could be shipped
ready dreamed and prepared for public buildings. Therefore
he believed for many years to come Forehand would be a
station for cootie's, and the physical formation of the penin-
sula was so favourable for ensuring the separation of Ohs
convicts !TOM the inhabitaws that he believed it
would be impossible to find a better situation.
His noble friend sad it wou'd I e better to employ
monies on great public works in the colonies, more cape-
dally in the preparation of coheirs for future occupation.
Now allow hits to remind their lordships that all then fear-
ful evils which had when both in New South Wales and
Van Diemen's Land were is cons-queen of the system o
read making. If they were to employ convicts in gangs to
making loads or in chain land, or in any way they phased,
he was satisfied it was impossible IG,OOO miles off to guar/
airiest those cells. He believed that hereafter then would
be a lager and better &Id for the employment of eon.
Meta in the colonies than existed now. He would
shortly state the reason for that opinion. In the first place,
in reference to the remarks of the noble lord on the wool-
sack sad Mike noble lord opposite, with regard to the mu-
sans of government during first years of their secession
to officer, he wished to make one or two ohservationa. The
noble lord said the linings used by bur Majesty's govern-
ment would lead to a belief that trawportation was entirely
to be disconiinued, and to create an impression of that kind
la the colonies. Now, if that impression did exist it was
mon from the representations of other parties than from
what had fallen from her Majesty's government. He (lethal
say parson to read through 1t,,. despatches, as a whole, and
not to perceive that the view entertained from first to last
was this—that the convicts were to bit removed to the
Australis* oclonies, and a very large proportion of them to
Vsa Diemen's Land. Undoubtedly government was dis-
posed that toes, convicts should be removed as exiles.
Experience bed clearly proved that removal, without rem.
talking some control over the caseiwe, was a bad system.
The plan . ith regard to North Ansinlia w.s, that it was
to be a colony of convicts removed from Van Diesses
Land, and af.er they had ceuid to In under the control
of government.
Lord STANLEY—HoIding tickets of leave and cos-
ditineal pardons.
Earl GREY—They would have had a convict colony
with no free employers, and the colony was to be established
st Use expense of government. Now, what was the objet
of going to N nth Australia, seeing that Van Dineen's
Land coat .ined an enormous quentil of unappropriated
had, and that the they bed their forces and their com-
missariat, sad all their estalalithment ? If they were t
go to the scams of setting these men, why not do it in
Vast Diemen's Land? Bat he knew that the real object of
sending them to North Anthills was to send them, as it
were, through a sieve into New Ruth Wales. Now that
was • policy ho did not approve of. If they were to
mad atheists to any place, send them openly and
VI:1y. He thought it w a perfectly just that men
who had obtained conditional pardons ehould not
be debarred from going to neighbouring c,lonise.
Then, with regard to Western Australis, it was true that
Wasteru Austraiia was at pr-.rot a very small sons-
simony, and could not ininsediavaly absorb a very large
number of ceiieicts. but Western Australia was a colony of
oatraordinary natural advantages; Its timber we, of un-
rivalled It:caffeine and *my of aeons; its sail was capable
of raising ewe in and productions of tut kind which were
'sleuthed to yield a large return for labour. It possessed
Mao that which was a great difficulty in ookmaisation—the
means of sinking a fleet start, cattle atd stoup and
ample food for the fleet emigrants, and when convict
lather was applied In works that were there prop ,red, and
=senantars were created, ha firmly believed that
era Australia would afford a rigidly inerwaing Reid to
whisk ninths in large numbers could be anomaly
mat. H. had said that convicts ought not to be
omphrd tarty on public works. lie begged to
mufti their lordships that on a former events. be stated,
cad Is Mated now, that the employmout of .arise On
werke could not be entirely dispensed with. What he
signed ageism was large cot ihli•hnicnto of 'hat Wad. The