The Express.
London, England, 1850-02-06 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 6, 1850.

Lied 3. RUSSELL replied that • bill was in mem of
preparation, and would be istrodueed at the milled risible
Inassonth
OBSTRUCTION OF LIFE IN ILUALUSH UNION.
To gee...ions pui by Mr. Sonora,
fla W. SOMERVILLE, Is the absence
kingallel deem
meats, entered thito some e.planatlons toot the alleged
deaths from starvation and inormsed mortality in the Eilrusb
union ; as well as the general state of 'embarrassment sad
disorganisation in the affairs of the said union.
TRNAN r RIGHT.
Viscount CASTLIIREAGHt alter reforripg to remit
digurbanois in the county of Down, inquires wat=
bill would be ietrodueed to define the renal as of t
aid tenant in Ireland ?
Sur W. SOMERVILLE said that such • neemere was in
preparation sad would be presented the few days.
IMPORT AND EXPORT OF BULLION.
Mr. CAYLEY oleservid that on referrieg tatheamiptlon
returns, he found that the list of the imp 'rt and export of
bullion had bees excluded. Ho wished to sak whether there
was say objection to bullion being included in the lir.?
Mr. LABOUCHERE raid, that he feared it was quite
impossible to give the export sad the import of bullion into
this country with any accuracy. Although there were
public' returns, a greet deal pamed through private heeds,
ad it would be quite impossible to give an amount of the
Fold and silver that came in and went out with any accuracy.

SAVINGS BANKS.
Sir G. GREY pompoms!, o e the part of the Chancellor of
the Rube gain, who was suffering tram indisposition, his
motion fee emendieg the law relating to savings larks till
Monday next.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.
Mr. BORMAN said It was not necessary to state
what the ecelesiesticel commission was,—we were too
familiar with its character, we knew it to be a very
important responsible b...dy ; that it was charged wit&
important functions, and trusted with the administretion
of tmmeese • we keew there was scarcely a county in
Mislead in which it did not exercise some contra over
large ester a; there was not a parish in England in which
its intermeddling might not affect local in. ernes; and, ia
short, whether as regarded the temporelitie a of the church
or the most sacred interests of the people, it wielded a ;ewer
more vast and re spontible than had been held in this country
'lengths reformation. It was incumbent on parliament to
donee Its character end regulate its operations, and then
take every precaution against possible abase. It could not
be denied that the duties of the commission were art
on additional and ecclesiastical dignitaries. It was mani-
fest that one set of duties should be discharged,
and it was a matter of necesity therefore that choice should
be made between those incompatilre duties. Conviction was
gaining ground, the people were persuaded that the more
eczlesiastie el dignitaries confited themselves io the spiritual
duties of the church, and less meddled with secul urconcernr,
the bet er, and this cossistion was daily becoming more
matured amongst all claws of churchmen, end upon very
cogent grouwis, for there was one party when was extremely
anxious for the creation of mere bishops. They said that
with the present numher of bishops the work of
superintendence must of necessity be incomplete • for
the duties to be discharged were beyond their strength ;
bat them parties, earoest as they were, were beginning
to see that prelates were absenting themselves from their
dioceses, and giving up their time and attention to secular
affairs elsewhere, which laymen would administer fir bet-
ter. It was obsious that the deficiency which arose, not se
much from the deficiency as the neglect of spiritual duties,
would never be accepted by parliament, as on argument for
supplying the deficiency out of the church's fund. Then
there woe another party, ard he owned himself to belong
to that party, that melt still higher ground than to procure
the snuaremect of the estates, and carry on, through
every district of England, the alliance of the 'unctions of
ecelesi.stics. It was not a bishop's first duty to be at the
service of the table. Leaving to other men the grosser
affairs end intricacies of worldly business, he had chesen a
field, that of spiritual lever. Conscious of the responsibilty
of his high Mike, and devoted to its melted duties, he ought
to be familiar wAh the commis of every parish, cognisant
of the character of every clergyman, supplying all he wanted
by his own energy, controlling abinee by his vigilance, en-
eminent' all that was good by his example, to live as a father
amtngst his people, spreading around him an atmosphere of
'imam and religion. Seth, in its early days, was the
/beech's maim of what a Christian bishop ought to be.
Such th. y had been, mach we should wieb to see them again, and
to smelt it should to toe earnest desire of every tine Christian
to eadeavoar to restore them. But there was a third party,
perhaps more numerous than the others, who concurring
with the ethers is the character of an ecclesiastic, fortified
their opinion by reference to daily. experiease. They re-
leered to the ecclesiastical amanitas as i existed, which
proved its iocommtency to dischage its duties; to the evils
which had resoled from the rroteediugs of its dig-
' Muria% to the discredit of the church, and upon every
ground, whether of reason or expellees:es, es re-
garded the temporal or spiritual interests of the
chetah, they protested against a continuance of a
system, of which the pecuniary lose to the church,
was slight compared to the position in which it placed
our hierarchy before the people. Wnen *plea pal funds and
common feuds ware first established by act of parliament,
they were placed under the administration of episcopal
boards, because it was mid more confidence would be in-
ane.' to the church. The boards, which could not be un-
mindful of their origin, and the purpose of the sacred fund,
expected that under cmacientious keeping, every talent
presented to the common fun 1 would bring forth 10 talents
for the advantage of the church and the ear-
TICS of religion. the deletion hal vanished. Instead
of being intrusted to the safest keeping, instead
of sonlidenes being imparted to our prelate s, our confidence
in them had been destroyed, and there were no men so pain.
filly maxims that the shot, of the episcopal bench should
retire from the ecilesiastiral asnesission, as the body of the

irgrisis clergy, who bad bums conscious that the presence
of digaitaries to the board bad redeuctled neither to their
own credit or honour. Same of the beans of oar minim.
int COMOSOISiOIIerr were still hardened—they were yet
determined not without a struggle to forego their grasp
upon the church's goods, sad therefore he was compelled to ap.
peal the reason, to the justice, and to the sense of the pubic
and the authority of this house, and wit them to give him
their attention fur a time, whilst he showed, from the state-
sent. of the Ecclesiastical Comminoners themselves, what
wee the system of management they had carried on, and
how far they had jutified the confidence which had been
reposed in them, and how unressonab:e and how inde-
fensible sad anwanantable was the claim which they now
put forward to be permitted still further to abuse both
the interest and patience of the pubic. The Beelseiastical
Commission had its origin in 1838, teat was to say,
• previous commission of inquiry, in 1835 and
1838 had been issued, which bad made repels and
submitted certain recommendations upon the question of our
setheisetical establitheeents, and in 1836 the tame committ-
ee& was continued to carry out their own recommendations.
That wiz the origin of the present commission. It consisted
originally of 13. The smallness of the number gave great
diseatistution in certain quarters. The Bishop of London,
who was a witness before the committee, Pangaea great cause
leased for the dilate:unction. He stated that, there being
only five of the episcopal bench members of the contraiseion,
it was not considered an adequate representation cf
the church ; but the people thought bow great was
in power, bow convenient were its opportunities.
This commission was charged with great powers, not only as
effecting in great matters the interests of the church, but in
small matters affecting the in of the bishops in para.
nds!. All questions very materially affecting the interests
of existing bishops were ruled by them. They had to decide
what future bishops w. re to pay money to the ecclesiastical
commissioner., who ought to receive it in each case, and how
much. They also had to say what prelate was to be par-1
mined to sell estates, what prelate was to be allowed*
build palaces, and how much of the church's money was
to be given for these purposes. In short, there were e
thousand things materially affecting the comforts and
conveniences of the commissioners themselves which were
ruled Oulu-els by the board. A seat at its fount cause
to be looked upon u an important thing, it was one of the
great prizes of the church, and excluded prelates saw a small
portion of their body drawing praxes whilst they stood out
side locking on in blank astonishment. An signallers was
got up strewing themselves, as regarded the things of the
abureb, as free traders. Whether that version of the story
ware correct or not, of this fact there code be no doubt, that
an agitation was got up which waxed very fierce and eery
krandable, so that at the last the minority were compelled
ID gee s way. The doors of No. 6, :Whitehall-place, were
=tand the whole of the bishops entered. Oaly three
heta an entrance, and they had since been purged
by 'plumed superiority. The commission now was altered
le ee mingset. Formerly it consisted of eight laymen and
the esimitiat. Now there wen twenty.nine eccluiasties
to dos Wists. In fact it became practically an ecelesiseti-
mi beard above all ecclesiastical hoards, composed only of
OM NEW of eccluithies ; the parochial elervey and thedr
'ons were not at all represented at the board,
saw the result in the proceedings whisk
task piess. Poor pastors were left leall starved; the
poesecetheigations were left untaught, the whole of the sum
of the Church Treasury Were squandered on the pastes sad
other luxuries of tneir mitred rulers. Aei if to make " month
eon worse ethfoundee," specialpens were taken that there
should be a permanent chairman. The rale was that the
commissioner highest in rank should always occupy the chair
until a kigner in rank came, so that the board was often con-
stituted under 'junior bishop. This was going on until the
Archbishop of Canterbury came and jumped over all their
heads. If such a rule prevailed in this house, how
was its business likely to prosper ? And yet this
was considered so wise a regulation that it was actually em-
bodied in their acts of parliament. Under this areas the
despatch of business was not particularly well carried on.
It was found extremely inconvenient to carry through mat-
tees of detail, and therefore they determined to expedite 1
business by referring particular subjects to select committees.
How was this determination curled into effect? When • '
select oommittee wee appointed in this house it eimented of '
a very limited number of persons ; the inquiry was ear•
ried on by the members of the committee only, and
all personal end pecuniary interests Weft specially
excluded, bat the system of the Ecclesiastical Commie=
wee directly the neerse. He found by the rears la the ap
psaGu that the average attendance of the booth was 10.
Hew meayaseasaittees were appointed to carnet this large
thlelthalete of 10 ? They actually appointed a committee of
211—the bet amanfittee that sat consisted of 23. The de-
tente committee for the distribution of fuels molar Peel's
Act was 20. The Episcopal Immo Committee
consisted of 14. The Finance Committee cothieted
of 13; sad of all the numerous committees that
were appoin'ed, we did not hear of a single one of
which the neaten were not greeter than the myth* it. I
Nadeau* of the board which they were intended to correct-
This was only the beginning of inanities. ; the farther we
went, the more absurdities we found. With them, when.l
ever there was a charge affecting a particular bishop, he was

homed with a porthole' summons to the nemaattteo. He
net ealp attended at their dedbentioas, bat was at liberty
In Minsk sad to WWII, as if he ware • nissabee of the
enthittee. Every member of the episcopal berth might
WWI say committee although not nomiaated apes it, sad
tithe week on any 'question equally with the other ntem-
We So that anthem might b outvoted by the members
elf the *moped board, who wen not named spot it. The
Mem of St. Awash had the merit of bevies them se gem
to to enable any bishop particularly coavenant with die
=ee attend and diva both the deliberations Nth the
ef the committee. The sectary to the ethelelththe
Vol what way this was dice, He eeld ft ton
Matter of arrangement between theneftelves that=
May took up any question he bed •
ande es he grapbically expressed it, worked it ,through the
semunittee. He mast say that when the pastieul a interests
Ole many persons appeared to have been concerned, they
did appmer to have worked it through is a meet extrema-
nary manner. He doubted whether, in the days of tautens,
the working was more pp.eM istly carried on than it was at the
board*: the Beeleslastleal Commission. tin ter such a eye-
tam the house would not be surprised that the Onsiaess of the
commission was not particularly well transacted. They could
not but be prepared for carelnesses,ineempetence, peculation,
and waste. What did the house think of large estates hi fag
sold without a valaation—lerg• estates bear sold without
the common caution of a ninety ? what did they think of
important works being executed without deliberation ?
Surveyors, solicitors, architect', and others were em; eyeri
without any stipulation as to their remuneration ; thee, of
' course, chars .d what they liked, and the consequence was
that payment was in every case disputed. He believed that
down to the time when the Feinusittee reported no settlement
oe these eggamem had taken place, and, although a deep: rate
attempt was made to have them arranged In anticipation of
the report, there wee no evidence that it had bun or could
be accomplished without a further sacrifice of the church's
money. He considered that such management of so sacred
a fund was worthy of the severest censure. Remember they
were not their own funds that the commissioners lavished,
but the treasury of the ror that was wasted and exhausted.
(Hear.) But it was not 11l cessary for this ease that he should
prove palpable maladministration against the esomatissioners,
ell he wasted to show was that the amount of their attend-
ance was not sufficient to give them the requisite knowledge
of their duties. it was said of the bishops that they only
attended when a matter affecting their own personal
interests was under discussion. No doubt ins great many
instances that was true ; but in any came the attendanee of
the majority could only be occasional, and it naturally dwin-
dled into a merely interested attendance. The right reverend
members, in fact attended only once a week ; and it was
utterly impossible for them to acquire a sufficient knowledge
of their duties with such an attendance. Indeed the Bishop
of Lendos had car dielly told the committee that there was
only one man who practically understood the business,
and that was toe secretery, who had become
in reality the whole oommissien. (Hear, hear.)
He felt that an apology was due to the house for having
talked so long about the competition of the ecclesiastical
commission without having made any reference to its most
important functions. It was right that the house should
know that the commission had a secretary, or rather that the
seeretary hen a commission, for he was, to tam, the sun
around which the bishops, like so many inferior planets, re-
volved. (A laugh.) It was not ego et rez mew, but eqo et
episcopi noes. The secretary did everything—opened letup,
wavered communications, arranged orders in council, pre.
pared acts of pariiement, and selected all the subordinate
officers end empfoycs. No bishop could get anything
done for his interest until he had secured the Fete"
offices of the secretary. Did any one of the right
rev, commissioners with to alienate an estate, the
secretary manoeuvred the order in council. Did any one
want a new pe.lsce at the expense of the church, the secre-
tory provided the cash. Hui the commiesion got itself into
a scrape, the secretary was called in to " make things plea-
sans," and if it was necessary to mystify and bamboozle
parliament as t s the amount of ezelestatical revenues, the
secretary "cooked the accounts." (Loud laughter.) Was
there en important debate in the liousa of Lo•ds the secre-
tary culled the facts for the Archbishop of Canterbury ; and
if an awkward question was expected in the House of
Commons, it was the secretary whose duty it was to prime
the Fame Minister. (Loud lautehter.) He (Mr. Horsman)
could state from his own experience that he had never asked
a question in that house on the subject of the ecclesiastical
commission, without seeing in the Court Circa/ea of the
following morning the usual anneuncenunt, that the /MO-
tary to the ecclesiastical commission had had a long
interview with the prime minister in Downing-
street. (Luigtiter.) Wh there was a chance of plunging
the commission into litigation there was a general muster of
the clan Murray. Secretary Murray stirred up the dispute,
Mr. Knight Murray drew up the pleading', and Murray
tennis appeared at the bar in his wig and gown as counsel in
the cause. (Laughter.) But it was, perhaps, hard to blame
him for calling in to there the profits all those en whose
affections he could rely. Such conduct had been the fusible
of great minds in 011 &gee, but the real charge was—had he
plunged the commission into expensive litigation for the
benefit of his relations. It did not appear to him that
that point bad been fully and fairly investigated by
the committee, and he thought that those who might take
the trouble to read the evidence w Add c incur with tins in
that opinion. But the secretary was a most fortunate tune-
tiontury, he found friends when he did not know them, and
his virtue was rewarded when he least (musk d appreciation.
It was wont that the secretary of a commiesiou should he
appointed during pleasure, but when Mr. Murray came be-
fore the committee ho astonished its members by the an-
sou eminent that he was not the servant of the public during
pleasure, but held his appointment for life. (Hear, hear.)
And so it turned out, for in an act of parliament paned in
1840, respecting cathedrals and collegiate churches,
and which had no MOM reference to the office of
secretary to the commission than it had to the
beard of the great Mogul (laughter) a clause
was introduced, uniting the effic.s of secretary and tree-
surer, and conferring both on the then secretary for life.
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Who mnnaped that extraor-
dinary clause nobody could tell. The Bishop of London,
tee next in authority to the secretary at the board—(a
laugh)—could give no account whatever of the transaction.
The secretary himself was as innocent as one of his own
babas. (Continued laughter.) The idea of making his ap-
pointment permanent had never h'en mooted at the beard,
nor had It ever occurred to a singie commissioner, and yet
then it was. The weeds had been flipped in in the House
of Lords in one of the latest stages of the bill ; but how it
came there, how introduced, why, or wherefore, remained as
mash a mystery to the innocent recretary as it was to te e corn-
mithesen and all the rest of the world. (Hear.) Up t that
memo he (the secretary) remained in painful ignorance as
is who was his unknown benefactor who had taken it into
his head to male the office of secretary to the E telesiutical
Commission a clause in a bill for repairing cathedral and
unseats churches. (Hear, boar.) Bat these were small
matters. He now came to one of a different character, to
which he begged the attention of the house, and especially
of his hon. friend the member for Montrose, and if his hon.
trend's hair did not stand on end, he was not the some man
as Irian he first entered parliament. This connstesioh, en-
trusted with enormous funds for the most sacred purposes,
took no account of the vast amounts of which they
were the authorised recipients ; for from 1836 to
1845 they had no knowledge, exercised no supervision,
asked no qui lions respecting the sums that were paid in or
out in their names. (Hear, heir.) This fact had been
stated by the secretary himself before the committee. He
said that during the whole period alluded to, all monies
were paid into his own private account, and all accounts were
paid by his drafts, and this without the control or super-
vision of any party. If there should be any balance at
the end of the year—and whether there was or not could
be only known to the secretary—that was to be paid into
the Bank of England to the suount of the commission.
But it turned out that there was no balance whatever.
Between the extravagance of the commission and the
dexterity of the secretary there war no fear
of that, and so daring the whole period the en-
tire funds of the commission remained in the hands of
the secretary, without any kind of supervision whatever,
and these funds which thus pawed through his hands could
not have amounted to less than one million sterling. (Hear,
hear.) Such was the system which prevailed from 1836 to
1846, and no thanks to the commissioners that it did not
remain until 1850. In 1845 a new system was established,
but the public owed that entirely to an accident. It hap-
pened that in that year a parliamentary return was ordered
of all parties who had subeccibed to railways for sums te-
n:Win 2,0001., and the name of the secretary to the Eerie-
siestas: Commission figured in the list for the sum of
580,0001. (Hear, hear.) That extraordinary feet was
brought under the notice of the commissioner,
and then they appeared for the first tiros to
have had their attention drawn to the extraordinary
and uncontrolled power which the secretary had over their
toads. (Hear, hest.) Then it appeared that another mode
of receiving end making payments was adopted, but its
adoption was owing entirely to an accident. But even of it'
elatedness he had his doubts, because although new checks
were adopted, still if they were left in the hands of the
secretary, it was make obvious that they must be wholly
useless. He prayed the house to pause and to consider the
Immense injury to the church which such a aptem so long
and so uninterruptedly pursued must crews. Let them
consider what thou funds were and what was their destina-
tion. Those funds were intended to be a great national
provision for the purest of all national purposes. Parlia-
ment had been roused to the conviction that they
had long been lamentably neglectful of the spi
ritual condition of their rapidly encreuing population.
The danger arising from the uncultured state of
the wild muses of that population struck them as being a
peril and a reproach. The conscience of the community was
awakened. The neoessity of making a great effort to renews,
reclaim, and unite the gailliou—to rescue them from infi-
delity, and win them to Christianity—war universally as
The darknue of the vast heathen loathe.'"
became the text of many a sermon and the theme of many a
political speech, and clergymen of all denominations devoted
themselves to what appeared to them a pure and holy
achievement. The osier-tiring seal of the dissenters added
to the excitement, laymen stimulated each other in the good
work, and even our busy merchants gave their time and
money, while many numbers of their :amities rejoiced is SIN
opportunity of devoting themselves to the lofty mid labo-
rious calling of winning the stray sheep bark into the
fold. (Chan) Our clergy toiled with redoubled vigour,
our bishops handed round the begging-box themselves,
epti while others multiplied their gifts they multiplied their
exhortations. (Cheers and laughter.) The effect was hare- I
dible. Daring 16 years more was done for the spiritual
&deacons:teat of the people than had been done for a eon-
tury before. Churches sprang up in many district' as if by
magic. The character of whole neighbourhoods was
changed, and accents of prayer and thanksgiving were heard
where previously there had been nothing hat blasphemy
and profanes'''. Well, the bishops having, by their ex-
cam of zest, obtained the guardianship of the toads, acted as
U the souls of the whole stadia were no more than dirt in
their estimation. They tilt the whole Our to their own sober-

dleatir, without one of those cheeks which any man :Ima-
m= hang tre esnansost sense would be ashamed to dispels' t
with la the management of kis affairs. The house would not
be earprised that from suck a mode of earrying on business
the anal eoneequenees should flow. His history of the Be-
cleolutioal Commission was now happily drawing to a elms.
It was not as agreeable history to a ehurehrnae, bat ea the
eontrary, (Hear, hear.) He bar now only to
Mate two additional fasts, which would complete the caw.
Invite, and which every practical peons would antic pate as
the consequence albs ill-advised emaildence which had been
bestowed. Thew facts were very short, but in their character
very decisive. They were these. About three ran ago it
was notified to the public that the commission was bankrupt,
and about three menthe ago it formed out, through the wual
channels of communication, that the secretary had run away
with all the money he could lay his heads on. (Cheers and
laughter.) These events appeared to him as a meter
of course—in fact, at necessary • sequence as
the happy union that wound up the novel.
The last untoward event, the elopement of the below d ae-
cretary, created immense consternation in the episcopal
councils of Whitehall, and not, he believed, entirely without
the shock bring felt across the way in D nrning-strfet
(Hear, hear) But the public had only an Imperfect know
ledge on these points. The circumstances to which be had
alluded had been kept as secret as possible. No 'outgun to
the secretary had been apt ointed, not even a vacancy had
boon declared; but the public papery told tht a. that levee
sums bad disappeared from the treasury, and that the se-
cretary had disappeared along with them. but -to detail,
were given. (Hear, hear.) And here he hoped he
might 'be p emitted to oak the noble lord if he would
give the particulars of what had already been ilea
perfectly made keown through the public press. Or
perhaps the right hon. gentleman opposite could giv
necessary information. He wished to know whether it wis
true that the late secretary to the Ecclesiastical Commiesier
had left the country; whether or no he had created a de
cation in the funds; what was the mutat o that defales-
tinn, and whether ray steps heal been taken to recover from
him or other parties; or, if all recovery wee hopeless, whe-
ther the Ecclesiastical Commissioners bad asked to be
allowed to make good the deficiency oat of their own purses
(Laughter.) Now, all the circumatane s which he had
sated, except the last, he had taken from the evidence
given before the two committee.. He ha 1 taken it from the
evidence of the commission' rs the maelves,or of p• none in their
employ, and now roe hoped the house would allow hiss for
• few momenta to draw attention to the character gad coieth
tution of the parliamentary committee. The oomenittee
was, he believed, originally nominated by arrangement be-
tweets the mover, the govcrumtnt, and the eockeiattical
commission, and he believed that when it was first ap-
point. 1, it was granted with two cent:intone He spoke
without positive information and uceer cuirection, but be
believed that at the time of its aepnintment it was granted
on two conditiens ; first, that it should be t..kee without die-
cusaion, and next, that the list of memeer. a totten should Ise
submitted to the Archbishop of Canterbury, and approved of
by him. On the first point he 'poke with dad: cm-, but on
the ercona he had reason to beihere that 1.0 was correctly in-
formed.
Mr. E. DENISON was undotatood to say that the hen.
member was wrong in both.
Mr. 1101ISMAN—Did the hon. member mean to say
that the list was not subaeitt d to the Archbishop of C tater-
bury. The tint point was immaterial, but as to the second,
unless he heard a distinct contradiction in that home, he
must pullet in believing that it was correct. He spoke,
however, under correction, having no certain know-
ledge. The committee, as he had Were said, was
named by arrargentent with the Arehhi pof Can-
terbury, and he believed also that the eccleeiate
*lett comininion, or litmus acting on their behalf
saw the mimes and were parties to the nomination. But
whether that was so or not every ecclesiastical commis-
sioner in the house was placed on that committee, Charges
were brought against the commission, their proceedings
were to be grounds for inquiry, and five teclesiestical cone
missioncts were named as judges on an inquiry into their
own preceediogs. (Hear, hear.) He stated tress lams as
h, ing most important. The right hon. member for Oxford
University wee also on the committee, as well as the
noble lord the member for Hertford. There were
two cabinet ministers and the chairman who drew
up the report was brother to a right reverend
'notate. In short, what he wanted the house to understand
was that the committe e was composed of men of the highest
character, of greet importance and influence in that house,
and also le isms who, it anything, were lavourebly digested
towards the commission. If it had any bias It mast
have been towards the commission. That committee
conducted its enquiries during two session., and then
came to an ueanimoua report, condemning the manutement
of the ecclesiuttcal commission, and recommending the
appointment of paid commissioners to take charge of the
temporalities. The committee recommended the appoint-
ment of three pain commissioners. The tight hon. gentle-
man who generally took charge of ecclesiastical bills was not
present, but he took a very !siding part in the discussion era
the first occasion, and the probability was that if he bad
been present on the second, his vote would h tve bet n
given for the paid commission. The house would tow,
he ho; id, allow him to • xplain the particular object of
his motion, gad also the view which the committee
took of the question. There was this point of difference :
The friends of the commission wisbed for one paid commis-
sioner, and the committee recommended three. The effect
of the apptiettnent of cue paid commissioner would hue
been to give the right rev. commissioners more power than
they had at present, became the paid c. mmisaiener would
absorb in his own person all the responsibility. The view of
the committee was, that if they appointed three paid com-
missioners they would practically 'upends the ecclesiastics'
commiraionen in the management of the temporali-
ties. One would not—three would. (Hear, hes.r.) This,
therefore, was the difference between the resolution
he moved and the pr .poeal of the commissioners. They
wished to retain the power in their own heeds, and to
appoint one paid individual, on whom the responsibility
under themselves should rear, while he and the committee
endeavoured to supersede them in their power, end to have
three paid commiseioners, on whom the responsibiley should
be cast, as in other public departments. This also was
the object of his (Mr. linesman's) motion to night.
He begged, in conclesion, to move the following re-
solution :—" That a committee of the house, to which was
entrusted an inquiry into the composition and management
of the ecclesiastical commission, having unanimously recom-
mended the appointment of three paid commissioners for the
management of the property under the commission, it is
expedient that effect be given to that recommendation."
The resolution having been seconded and put from the
chair,

Sir G. GREY rose. He stid be thought the co
position of the commission, consisting of a large body of
individuals acting as a Jody, without individual responsi-
bility, necessarily led to the irregular performance of the
business cf the commission, and to the placing in the hands
of the secretary a greater share in the transaction of that
business, and an amount of respo: situlity which neither his
official position nor th i importance of the duties of the com-
mission justified or warranted. lie was, and ha 1 always
been prepared to concur in any reasonable proposal for an
alteration of the composition of tha COMOII4,IOU in this respect,
and the hon.geutlemao, in alluding to the bill whket had been
brought in, as he said, f. ur years ago. but which he be-
lieved to be less than three—(hear, bear)—the object
of which w s by a paid commissi n, whose concurrence
should be neceuary, to cineentsate the business in the hands
of one responsible and paid commissioner—that bill met
with con-iderable opposition, and on that ground and the
lateness of the session it wee abandoned—his hon. friend
the member for Ma/ton (Mr. E. l)snison) had elven notice
of a committee of inquiry into the composition and manage-
ment of the ecclesiastical commission ger.erally,and his noble
friend (Lord John Russell) seeing the opposition which was
offered to the bill, and the desire which obtrined in the
house that the whole affairs of the comeniiision should be in-
vestigated by such a committee, abandoned that bill,
acquiescing in the proposition of the hon. member for
Melton fur the appointment of • committee of inquiry—
in alluding to that committee, and speaking from his (Sir
G. Grey's) own recollection and knowledge ot what occurred
then, and of the reconimendatien to which that committee
came, he must take leave to contradict the two assumptions
put forward by the hon. member, that that committee had
been appointed on two conditions—the one that there
should be no discussion on the subject in the house; the
other, that the names of the committee should be in the
first instance submitted to the Archbishop of Canterbury for
his approval. (Hear, hear.) This was the first time he had
ever heard of any such conditions in connexion with the ap-
p Antment of that committee, nor slid he believe there was
any foundation for the assertion that conditions were im-
posed beyond the fertile imagination of the hon. gentleman.
(" Hear," and a laugh) It wits thought to be for the con-
venience of the house generally that the motion should not
remain on the paper,leadine to the expectation that the queer
don was to be debated, when the intention was not to pro-
ceed with the bill, but to agree to the inquiry by a com-
mittee, ani accordingly his noble friend (Lord J. Russell)
consented to the appointment of the committee with-
out direnuiin. The hon. gentleman was fully aware
at the time of the course that was taken, anti the reasons for
it; but he did not then sugg'st that these was any unfair
dealing in the matter, as he now insinuated, by which the
committee was to be packed, and all discussion stopped, and
he must say that he thought the suggestion on the present
occa-lun was unnecessary and uncalled for. (Rear.) The
secretary had, it was true, left the country having been
guilty of defalcation in hie Gaming' to the extent, he be-
lieveil, of between 6,0001. and 7,0001 , but measures had been
taken to recover as much of this back as the property which
had been left by the secretary would cover. He was glad
the hon. member had raked the amount of the defalca-
tion because be believed very exaggerated reports had
gone abroad on that subject. Only yesterday his had been
asked whether the amount of the defalcation was not
70.0001 He was happy to sty it was nut 7,0001., he be-
lieved scarcely over 6,0001., a great portion of which wooln
he recovered from the property the late secretary hid left
twilind him, to secure which and make it available proceed-
ings had been taken. The hon. gentleman next said that
great secrecy had been observed, and that an endeavour had
been made to conceal the matter. Ile (Sir O. Grey) was
not aware of any attempt at cones altnent—the fact of
the secrets,' having tibia iuded spicared to tie pretty gene-
rally known, very many qua lions had been pat to him
about it by various parties, and so far from the conunissionen
having desired to keep the affair a secret, he believed they
had taken immediate measure' for • full investigation.
/Chess.) But, said the hon. gentleman, "they have de •
dared no vacancy in the °Mos." (Hear, hear.) The reason
why no new appointment had been made was simply that it
was not intended to fill up again, in one person, the joint
office of secretary and treasurer. (Hear, hear.) A bill was
now before parliament, which, amongst other enactments,
went to repeal that clause in the former act, which he agreed
ought never to have paned—(hear, hear)—which had coca-
Mooed such 'Maid end iaseaysoisso ; and until polite