The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1856-04-22 00:00:00

THE TOWN DUES.

LOCAL CHARGES ON SHIPPING
COMMITTEE.

(FROM OUR OWN REPORTER.)
Houn OF COMMONS, MONDAY

The select committtee re-assembled to-day, at noon.
Mr. Lowe in the chair. The other members present were
Lord Hotham, Sir J. Duckworth, Mr. Horsfall, Mr. M.
Gibson, Mr. Duncan, Mr. Bouverie (president of the
Poor Law Board), Mr. Moffatt, Mr. Cardwell, Mr. Vance,
Mr. Hardy, and Mr. Watson.

Mr. Heron, Town-clerk of Manchester. who had been
examined on Friday, was re-called, and gave evidence as
to various articles of commerce, the tariff of which had
been on the brass plate of the Liverpool Custom House,
and which he referred to in his examination on Friday.
He said he thought he had already shown to the corn.
mittee, that the local dues were expended for the benefit
of the town generally, and not for the advantage of the
shipping. In 1751, there was a petition addressed by the
Town Council of Liverpool to the King in council, praying
for an extension of Ihe privileges of the burgesses. In
1691 and 1695, the corporation considerably improved
the accommodation of shipping, while by the act of Geo.
11., chap 92, seven acres of land, and £l,OOO, were granted
to the corporation for further improving the accommoda-
tion. There was a further grant under George 111.,
chap. 52. It was alleged, that by the improvements made
from time to time, that the shipping had been benefitted
by funds furnished by the corporation, but he should be
able to show, that where such improvements had been
made, a very large part of the funds came out of the dock
rates, and that the corporation had received, undoubtedly,
large sums of money out of the dock estates. That; how-
ever, was a part of the subject on which the corporation
only could give satisfactory information, witness not
having the means or getting at facts.
In reply to the Chairman, the witness

considered

yid there

if the

Birkenhead improvements to be laid before the House of
Commons this session were carried out, the largest ocean

'steamers could come up to the pool, and the landing-
stage was merely for the accommodation of passengers of
the town, and not of the shipping. With regard to the
connection of the corporation with the dock estate, up to
1785 the corporation possessed the exclusive power of
making, but by the 51st George 111. the corporation were,
for the first time, compelled to purchase land at a price
fixed by a jury. By the 4th George IV. a body of audit
commissioners; was appointed, whose duty was to be
solely auditing the accounts; but a power of veto was
vested in the Town-council, which neutralised the effect
of that enactment.

By Mr. Horsfall : He did not think the auditors were
appointed on the part of the ratepayers, for they were
appointed partly by the magistrates of Lancashire and
Cheshire, as well as the corporation of Liverpool—three
auditors by each of these bodies, making nine in all.

0
By the Chairman : The veto was not merely a name ;
there was one case in which the corporation vetoed the
proceedings of the dock trustees, who had passed' a reso
lotion that a certain portion of land in Toxteth-park was
vested in the dock trustees, and not in the corporation.
Counsel afterwards decided that the land was vested in
the dock trustees, without making any compensation to
the corporation. There was a more recent case of a
similar kind, which showed that the power of the dock
trustees had not yet passed away. It was when an oppo-
sition was made some years ago—he did not know the
date—to rating the docks to the poor-rate. The bill for
the purpose was promoted by the vestry of
Liverpool, and the dock trustees opposed it,
but owing to a difficulty about some formal points
relative to the corporate seal a petition to Parliament
could not be sent in time to comply with the standing
orders. Mr. Bramley-Moore, the witness continued, who
was a long time chairman of the dock estate, once said he
had made the history of that property his peculiar study,
and he declared that the first grant of land to the dock
estate was made in the reign of Queen Anne ; in later
times the corporation became merely sellers of land to the
dock trustees. The sum of £221,851 was paid, in 1840 for
the site of the Albert Dock. ,

Mr. Horsfall, supported by Mr. Watson, objected to
this part of the witness's evidence being taken. It was
merely collected from a printed report of evidence given
by Mr. Bramley-Moore before a Parliamentary committee,
and could not surely be taken as evidence before this
committee.

The Chairman: Oh, go on ; go on. (A laugh.)
The witness then proceeded to read part of Mr. Chap-
lin's evidence before a Parliamentary committee, relative
to the management of the dock estate finances, and after-
wards referred to a petition to Parliament from the Town
Council, which was presented in 1833.

Mr. Horsfall again. interposed, and thereupon the room
was cleared.

The committee remained in deliberation for about ten
minutes or a quarter of an hour. .On the re-admission of

strangers,

The Chairman said : Go on

The witness then proceeded to read the petition, and
&so an extract from a Parliamentary :report, with the
view of shewing that on many occasions the Corporation
of Liverpool had interfered with the dock trust, solely for
the purpose of receiving their own benefit at the expense
of the shipping. _

By the Chairman: The Town Dues of /Liverpool are
burthened with a debt of X.1,000,0t10 sterling. This debt
was incurred at different periods prior and subsequent
to the passing of the Municipal Corporation Act, but
for what purpose he was unable to say. It appeared,
however, that one object was a large outlay for
building churches, which amounted to £122,000 odd ;
there was also a sum of £160,000 for the improvement
of Bold-street. Now, Bold-street, as must be well
known, was a long way from the docks, and that outlay
could not be said to be for the benefit of the shipping;
there was also £221,851 paid for 26 acres of land at
Wallasey. The project for making the Birkenhead docks
was renewed in 1843, and the competition for land there
became very brisk, land being sold as high as 16s a-yard,
or .e 3,500 per acre. He considered there was no justifi-
cation for charging any portion of the million debt,
secured by the Town Dues, upon the duties levied on
shipping.

By Mr. Horsfall : Witness was quite aware that the
works at Birkenhead turned out a tailure ; he thought it
would be highly desirable that the Town Dues should be
expended to a certain extent, as was done now by the
corporation for the benefit of the shipping. With regard
to the printed documents, from which h had read, he
had read nothing which was not on the authority of evi-
dence before Parliamentary committees, evidence taken
before the municipal corporation commissioners, or evi-
dence furnished by officers of the Liverpool corporation ;
and if he had inadvertently made any error in his state-
ments, the corporation had it in their power to correct
him.

Mr. Hardy : Did you get up this case either by direc-
tion of the corporation of Manchester, or as a labour of
love ?

Witness : I am not aware of it being usual for a pro-
fessional gentleman to getup any case as a labour of love.
(A. laugh.)
Mr. Watson : Have you not been a long time getting up
the case ?

Witness : No, not very long.
Mr,'Watson: Why, did you not get up the case before
the Liverpool Commissioners ? _ _

Witness : Yes ; but three days before I went before that
commission I knew nothing of the Town Dues question ;
and I should have known nothing, had it not been for the
documents supplied by the corporation.
Mr. Watson : Have you produced all the books that are
necessary to your case ; you seem to have a good many ?
Witness : By no means ; I have only made reference to
but a few of them. (A laugh.)
By Mr. Hardy : He could state one grievance under
which the Manchester merchants and tradesmen laboured
with regard to the Town Dues of Liverpool. He should
instance in particular those persons in the timber trade,
who were obliged to pay heavy dues on all timber which
they imported into Liverpool.

By Mi. Watson : He did not come there to raise the
question of the right of the corporation at all to these dues ;
what he complained of was the appropriation of the dues.
He did not say he found the word " trust " in any of the
documents he had read; but the Municipal Act provided
in what way the borough funds should be expended. He
should not think of referring to Mr. Chaplin to establish
any trust,'. but he should refer to what Blackstone said
as to the origin of these dues, which established an obli-
gation on the part of the corporation to maintain the
port, and that he considered clearly established a
" trust" without any consideration. They had tolls in
Manchester which belonged to Sir 0. Moseley ; these
were market tolls, and were purchased of the corpo-
ration of Manchester for £200,000 ; the tolls yielded
now about £1,500 a-year ; but he could not tell exactly
how much of that Was spent on the borough. Ho be-
lieved there was not nearly so much spent for borough
purposes as were received out of the tolls ; but he con-
sidered the case of a market toll was not at all analagous
to the Dock Dies. Since the Manchester corporation
purchased the manorial rights of the market tolls they
had expended between £30,000 and £40,000 in preparing
market accommodation for persons frequenting the mar-
kets. Persons of course paid no toll if they did not go to
the market, consequsntly there was a full equivalent for
the toll.

BY Mr. hardy : He believed that the prosperity of
Liverpool was entirely owing to its check system, and he
thought it would be very desirable to annul the charge of
.e 150,000 Dock Dues for which the shipping derived
benefit. It was easy to point out other places to which
the trade of Liverpool might be directed if an oppressive
system of Dock Dues continued to be levied.
By Mr. Cardwell : He was aware of the course which
had of late years been adopted at Bristol. It was the
very reverse of that of Liverpool, and the, trade of Bristol
had been greatly improved by the adopted of
making the borough rates available for loweringo
the Dock
Dues. A house rate of 4d. in the pound had been carried
at Bristol where the corporation were the proprietors of
the docks, and this policy had been found to have a good
effect upon the trade of the place ; so good an effect indeed
that it would probably lead eventually to do away with the
Dock Dues altogether. He hoped the committee would
f
have laid before them a return o the value of the pro-
perty of the corporation of Liverpool. Mr. Robertson
Gladstone, he added, had endeavoured to yet such a re t urn
from tho corporation, but the an_SWer returned him was
that it would require thrce-years to prepare the valuation
and none had yet been made. If the Liverpool corpora-
tion should be desirous of adopting the same course as
that of Bristol, namely, to make a house rate available for
the benefit of the shipping, or even to reduce the present
dues on shipping, they would be stopped by a clause in