The Express.
London, England, 1850-07-03 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EWING, JULY 3, 1849,-

ma should be eriasiderad so that of the msjordy what mash
timed by the • , notwithetandiag It was opposed to die
whole of by Had Mil power both given to the
el-rgy of the abash, it Mill: kayo been equally giro to
these of the RIMS gathers tad prothytorlas Who.
(Chem.) All that was arm was to nonce these-overdo*
of the clergy fa spirkna aura is earls ; mbetigh
• bed bra asseeded he Ibis purpose. The WesleYeas, as •
body, bad at /rot • rooted swindles *tarot what they
ealkd the iaterkzems of the "steamer inspooton; bat
I wltals it was explained to them that the inspector would is
I we way interfere with their religious teaching, that body,
one of tho meet jealous of their own privileges, at ones sub-
Maid to Miamian. mad was rapist this benefit of the
mat (Hoeg, bar) salt lard gesmod to imagist
that the. Maglasl mirth wens placid in a WM-
outage with rarer IP the Ognditions on which greats were
made ; bat tit het orot, that the form of application and
grant orders of sat prodody the nee in the le me and
that of the alscaests. whit the ex pdo• of certain weeds
relating to dr homed dotal iffrireillilid. Two prinelphs
Ind bra preparde tae oterdlog to the numbs% and the
oar Mordiag to the meant of petholary exertion. The
last was the prineiplo that they hod adopted, and he
thought bit noble friend woad not say that that was a I
Pariah which did injustir to the church of England.
Sontothiag Ilk. a third of the popalatios might be mid to be
disasters. (" No, no.") Certainly ho thought that was
the
_proportion. kesistaing that to be the proportion, he
would state ill" grants to the church of Bas-
hed. Between Janntry, 1848, and Juno, 1860, there
had bra 'existed 689 Moat, of which 639 were elsorth of
Enalaad schools. Aad of thoes who had rewind grins of
books tad mom 80 per rest. belongs. to the chorth of Eng-
land. He could bring Moog testimony from • number of
the most eminent and dastioguisbed clergymen in (a
your of the system. Tito noble marquis proceeded to
say that ho held it of importance to Mita the co-operation
of laymen as far as it could ho secured I. such • work by en-
titling them to a shirt of the authority which was exercised,
and "clap pledging their right to have an opinion at least in
all temporal matters. That was all that they had sought to
do. Religions interforeasswas carefully pecarod to and mono-
polised by the clergy. Ho could re nothing to object to in
suck a system. This noble lord had adverted to • ais-
tress of • school who gave sous 'attraction to her
scholars regarding the battle of Hastings. Now it was
ones his lot to b• benighted on Salisbury-plain ; he took
refuge in a cottage, and he asked for a book. Ono was
brought to him, which he was told belonged to the allege
It was of a chrosolooical character, end purported
totio • history of all the events that had occurred am
are creation of thus world, and sprite ing the
mass 'of the mayors of Salisbury in whose year
of oaks the "vents had occurred. (Laughter.) He
thought, therefore, that a little gems' and historical
knowledge disseminated in schools would be sinful.
Ho thought he coed say no more. Hs was as desirous as
the noble lord to acs • fall and starching inquiry on this
subject, but when he reflected that it was now the 2nd of
July, and as thus nob!' lord himself admitted that it would
be aressary sot to publish the minutes of evidence this m-
ass, be must object to this motion. And, besides, it must
not be supoosod that say vote of that hose would have any
'fist on the other boast, in which these grants originated,
unless the subject could be made the sabliet of inquiry in
the other house also. (Hear, bear.)
Lord LYTTELTON believed that an inquiry of this kind
was the only chum of arriving at • sitisfactory conclusion
upon this question. This home might depend upon it that •
gnat deal of dissatisfaction prevailed throughout the country.
It was perfectly tree, and it would be strange If it were sot
true, that many managers of schools in the country availed
themselves gladly of government mistime. He was the
more maim that an inquiry should be mad" into the matter
bower he did not perticipato in the extreme views
of those who bad tak a a part against the govern.
meat. He thought that the course government had pursued,
with the exception of the compulsory clasp's, was deserving
of the gratitude of the country and of the church. Bat the
compulsory c:auses he conceived to be a great bluader. The
government could have no wisb on this question but to work
with the great body of the church in the matter of education.
The noble lord concluded by czpres,iog a hope that some
inquiry would be made !ato the subject, as it was of ge-
neral importance, and some satisfactory arrangemeot was
. .

Lord kINNAIRD said it would be quite impossible that
a committee appointed at this late period of the session
could examine into the various matters in gun.
ties. It appeared to him to be molt fair and
reasonable that the proposition for an legality
should be postponed to another session of pediment.
The Bishop of SALISBURY said it might be
in the recollection of the roble marquis (Lens
downe) that he (the Bishop of Salisbury) had ten years ago
manifested his opinions upon that subject and the wide-
spread jealousy which prevailed with respect to it. Be dis-
claimed all 'bare in the exaggerated opinions which he knew
were entertained upon toe matter, as he bad always
dose all he could to calm them. Be, however,
wished for the icquiry proposed by the noble earl,
although not upon the precise grounds be had advanced.
This sy-tem of 'dandies, conducted under the nperinten •
deus. of the different denominations, was a great.eapariment.
. .

T. female train*, school in his diocese ;as the flirt esta-
blished in this country and bad received the approbation of
the inspectors, and he htil Glt a good deal of anxiety as to
the effect on the female ruled which would arise from the
weeds% of intellectual cultivation they received. They were
all in the humblest ranks of life. It was fount that they
generally came in very ignorant, even crowding to the
standard ft quired for their entrance, and they seldom re-
mained more than two years, and yet many of the quell
*ions put to them in examine:ion related to the most ditin•
guished ecclesiastical writers and fathers of the church, of
whom th y were expected to have considerable knowledge.
The right rev. prelate concluded by urging the necessity of
en inquiry 'on the principle of that sought by the motion,
*lsiah be thought would tend to bring to light defects in
the system and promote its improvement and advance the
muse of sound education.
The Earl of CHICHESTER opposed the motion on the
ground of the lateness of the maim, although he was sure
that the questi n mutt at some pen id become the subject of
parlitmentiry inquiry. There was a time when he thought
the charge might have been brought against the committee
of the Privy Council and the government of establishing a
system of education without the knowledge of parliament,
sad but for his belief that a change was about to take place in
that respect he should have conceived it to be his duty to
bring the matter before the house. His only objection to
the motion was, that at this period of the session it was im•
passible for a committee to conclude its labours. There were
several pilaw on which the public mind should be disabused
with regard to the present system. One of them was the
question of the arbitration of the bishop between the clergy-
man of the parish and the manager of the schools.
It however appeared to him that it would not be advisable
to have two systems of arbitration.
The Bishop of OXFORD began by expeeniag his pleasure
at the tone of moderation with which the noble marquis had
spoken, and which had characterised the whole course of the
debate. But he wished I. correct the mistake on which the
opposition to his noble friend's motion had been founded as
to the came of the long-continued controversy urged by the
National Society. The mat injurious charges had been
thrown out, and the foulest suspicions alleged 'seine, the
society, who had been accused of yielding to the influence
of jealousy in resisting the wish of the government to
interfere in their education d establishments. The clergy
looked with jealousy to the passing over of the education of
the people from the chuck of England to the state of Eng-
land. The result of this is to exclude in a great degree re.
ligions influence. The state had no organs of which she could
avail herself in her religion, as every other sect has in its reli-
gion, for carrying on the course of education. There
were grounds of suspicion in the system, for the
movement had began in the avowed establishment
of a system by the introduction of normal schools, which
should exclude all distinctive religious education. At so
late a period as 1814 there was a special provision, which
provided for the case of schools which should be managed
by the minister alone, without a committee. This was a
positive provision by the committee of Privy Council.
:low it was said to be a ground for refusing grants that
there should be a reference to the bishop of the diocese on
disputed points. (Hear, hear.) The management clauses
said that it was so fatal a condition that reference should be
made to the bishop, that all assistance should be denied to
such schools. Government should not cut the strings of
private charity, and the administration of them funds should
I be carried on in such a way Ns not to afford any grounds for
mapition. If there was such a great and irresponsible
power is the management of those funds, and if suspicion
were to be avoided, he thought that the government should
court inquiry. He hoped that their lordships would agree
with the motion of his noble friend opposite, and would
testitute a kited and candid inquiry, which would show what
was eras and what was false, would remove anything that
may be found objectionable, and thus restore coafideace to
the doubting church. (Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he did not ob-
ject to the inquiry, but merely wished to have It postponed
until the commencement of nest session, when it might be
serried on more effectually, and when the other hones might
conduct a concurrent investigation.
The Earl of CARLISLE vindicated the conduct of the

government with respect to national education, and
was of opinion that the laity, as far as their fends
went, were entitled to a fair share as well as the clergy.
He wtuid pat it to the noble lords who bad read the cor-
respondence between the committee of the National Society
and the Privy Council—at least, to those of them who did
not entertain notions ,f church eupremasy—whether. the

entire course of the Privy Council had not been marked y
a desire t, remove the ebjectient and secure the co-operation
of the National Society ? (Hear, hear.) Al soon as the
,Laws were drawn up to be submitted to the committee of
the National Society, sal after the committee had under-
taks• to reaommend them to the promoters of schools, fur.
ther cheeks and securities, involving the superintendence of
the moral and religious instruction by the clergy, with the
instatement of inepestors, had been devised. (Hear.)
His noble friend had no objection to have an inquiry into
the whole subject in the next session of parliament, but in
the late period of the present session which they were now
arrived at, he hoped their lordship, wosid not thick fit to insti-
tute a premature sad vexations inquiry on a matter with
respect to which it was not desirable to excite contumacy and
dier tm. also, hest.)
Lai STANLEY said nobody doutked that there ought to
+be some management clauses. The question was, whether
parties mset adopt the particular clauses which her Majes
ty's government sight think most desirable, and be tied
thews by persosneat and unveil ins arrangement, for all
lustre tame. The noble lord peccet dad to contend that the
bishop of the diocese was the most proper person to erbitrate
upon any disputed paint which might arms in the system of
education. He regretted that the noble marquis had not
weeded to the propolitioa of hie noble friend. Not many
weeks ago the noble marquis Lad noticed what be was
pleased to call certain ntiar,presentatioos which had been