The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-12-07 00:00:00

SELECT VEST.RY.—YasTnwAY

The usual fortnighey meeting of the select vestry was
held yesterday, in the parish-offices, Brownlow-hill, the
Rev. Rector Campbell in the chair. The other members
present were : Messrs. Denton, Crawford, Hand, Mellor,
Came, Johnson, Shaw, Moss, Bradley, Sumner, Luff,
Whitty, Blain, Whitby, Gardner, Savage, and Banner.

MR. HEATH AND THE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL COMMITTEE.
The minutes of the last meeting having been read,
Mr. CARNE referred to the statement made by Mr. Sum-
ner at the last meeting, to the effect that Mr. Heath had
made some remarks disparaging the industrial schools at
Kirkdale. Now, he (Mr. Carnes) was requested by Mr.
Heath to state that he had never mentioned the name of
either the workhouse or the industrial schools, and that his
remarks were entirely confined to the facility which they
had of obtaining situations for boys in preference to the
workhouse, inasmuch as people did not like to take them
out of the workhouse. Mr. Heath named neither the work-
house nor the industrial schools. He had no initntion of
disparaging either one or the other; and that he was much
indebted to Mr. Coates, of Kirkdale, for information on
matters of routine by which he had been called more
efficiently to regulate the school under his charge. He
wished also to bring before them a subject mentioned to him
by Mr. Heath, although he did not think the vestry could
entertain it; yet he felt it right to name it. Mr. Heath
said he had been frequently met by children, in cold frost)
weather, in the streets, in wretched, miserable, clothin2
which must necessarily subject them to disease.
Mr. Moss : This is very irregular, Mr. Chairman
Surely those remarks cannot apply at this stage of on'
proceedings.
Mr. CARNE : The chairman has allowed me to make
them.

Mr. Moss : This is a flat contradiction of the statement
made here by Mr. Sumner; and it had better be reserved
until that gentleman is present.
Mr. CARNE : Mr. Sumners may not be here.
Mr. Moss : Then give him notice, and bring the question
forward.

Mr. CARNE : It is only an explanation that Mr. Heath
never intended to disparage the schools ; he did not say Ms
remarks might not be taken in that sense ; but he did not
intend them.
Mr. Moss : Ay, that is very different from your first
statement.
Mr. CARNE : Wilt you allow me, Mr. Chairman ?
The CHAIRMAN : Yes.
Mr. CARNE was afraid they could do nothing in the
matter. It was a custom amongst parents to send out
children in this inclement weather, almost unclothed, and
the consequence was, they contracted disease. Mr. Heath
wanted this to be brought before the vestry to see what
could be done. He (Mr. Came) answered that it was not
the duty of the board to run about the streets to bring per-
sons into the workhouse ; their duty was simply to receive
them when they were sent in ; and if the council or Mr.
Heath adopted measures to send such children to the work-
house, they would be received and taken care of. That was
the only answer he could give him.

FINANCE COMMITTEE.

The proceedings of this committee having been read,
Mr. CARNE moved their confirmation.
Mr. DENTON remarked with reference to the cottage
rating sub-committee, they had no report on the books of this
committee of what they were doing. He had called atten-
tion to this fact repeatedly, and notwithstanding he found
there was no report from them. As regarded the other
question he was going to ask, he found the finance committee
had anticipated him, namely, relative to the monthly report
from the surveyor. It was desirable they should have a
monthly report from that gentleman as to what he was
doing. It was found from. the proceedings of the health
committee they had weekly reports from Mr. Rishton, their
surveyor, Mr. Newlands and Mr. Fresh, and he thought it
was necessary the vestry should have a report from its sur-
veyor.
Mr. Moss said the question was now before the finance
',ommittee.

Mr. DENTON was satisfied so far. It was stated that the
appointment of a surveyor would be a great saving to the
parish • he wished it to be shown it was so.
Mr.lipes remarked that the messenger employed in the dis-
tribution of bread had had his salary raised from 15s to 20s.
He proposed 18s which he thought would have been fair.
He must enter his protest against what he considered a
piece of extravagance on a small scale.
Mr. DENTON begged to give notice, that at the next
meeting he should move that a return of the proceedings of
the cottage rating sub-committee be entered on the pro-
ceedings of the finance committee.
Mr. BRADLEY said the cottage rating sub-financial coin•
mittee had no necessity for meeting recently, and that was
the reason why there had been no report.
Mr. BLAIN inquired who were the members of the com-
mittee ?

Mr. DENTON :
and Mr. Moss.

The overseers, together with Mr. Bradley

Mr. MELLOR aslod why they had not called a meeting.
Summonses had to be regularly.issued, and it could not be
done until this committee met.

Mr. BRADLEY said Mr. Mellor had brought forward an
assertion before the vestry which could not be borne out in the
committee ; and it was a waste of time to answer him. So
far as regarded the business it Was going on as usual, and
the collection for the present year was in excess over the
previous year or the year before.
Mr. DENTON : It seemed strange to him that the busi-
ness should be going on as usual, if there had been no
meetings at all.
Mr. BRADLEY : There had been meetings ; if Mr. Denton
would only take notice of the proceedings of the board, he
would find that meetings took place ; but he was so fond of
talk.

Mr. CARNE thought Mr. Denton's complaint a very fair
one. The proceedings should come before the board ; but he
believed it was an oversight.
Mr. BRADLEY : You must be very negligent of the busi-
ness of the board if you make assertions of that kind.
Mr. CARNE did not remember the proceedings having
been read.
Mr. BRADLEY : You must not make statements in conse-
quence of your not remembering.
Mr. Moss : Just explain that.
Mr. LUFF said he asked the question of Mr. Bradley a
month since, and he said it was true there had been no
meeting. That was a month since.
Mr. BRADLEY believed there was a meeting called for
last Tuesday; he was present, but no one else but himself.
Therefore there could be no blame attached to him in this
matter. The notices went out in the usual way, three days
previously, but no one came, and the consequence was no
meeting took place. He could only state to the meeting,
so far as he understood it, that the proceedings of the cot-
tage-rate sub-financial committee was going on exceedingly
well ; and that the amount collected up to the present time
exceeded that of last year, or the year before, very con-
siderably.
Mr. DENTON had been told by several that the finance
committee could not take cognisance of the sub-committee.
Mr. Moss considered this an ungenerous remark, consi-
dering the constitution of the committee.
On reference to the proceedings of the committee in ques-
tion, it was found, as wee understood it, to have met on the
3d of November.
Mr. CARNE begged to apologise.
Mr. BRADLEY hoped the board would see how improper
_ _

was to give way to those kind of unguarded expressions,
thus giving an impression out of doors altogether wrong.
Mr. CARNE: Just so ; if the proceedings were reported.
Mr. JOHNSON said it might save time if this were done.
He did not think it necessary that the committee should
meet, when there was no business for it; and if it were true
ft... 0• A.1.4.4.J, t%i naa evi-
dent the committee were doing their duty, and the work
was going on in a proper and satisfactory manner. He
would suggest that a rider should be put to Mr. Denton's
motion, to the effect that an official statement of the rate of
increase be given to them from all the collections of the
cottages, in order that they might judge as to the fruits of
the labours of the committee. As to meeting from week to
week, if there was no business, it was a waste of time, and
the vestry did not care a straw about it. He should suggest
that the motion be so altered.,
Mr. BRADLEY would give the ratio in a moment. Up to
October 15, 1853, when the accounts were brought down,
6,5141. were collected for the present year, whilst the sum up
to the same period in last year was 5,4121., leaving a
balance in favour of the present year of 1,1011. If that were
not a satisfactory state of the department, he did not know
what could be.
Mr. CARNE remarked that he was borne out by the pro-
ceedings of the finance committee, that the proceedings of
the sub-committee had not been read.
Mr. BRADLEY thought the statement he had just made
was so satisfactory that no further steps should be taken in
the matter.
The CHAIRMAN said the proceedings were not recorded,
and he must rule they were not read. The reading was not
recorded. The question was not whether this committee
was meeting and transacting business, but whether it was
meeting and transacting business without recording its
proceedings, because that was very possible. This committee
might be transacting business without recording its pro-
ceedings, and if so, it was doing what was illegal. With
regard to the comparative sum received, it was very satisfac-
tory ; but it was not conclusive, because the question was
whether more ought not to be received if the business had
been properly done. He did not mean to say it had not'
been properly done, and that all had been got that could be
got; but there was no proof of this, and the mere saying
that they had received 1,1001. more than last year, was no
proof that business had been properly conducted, or that all
the money had been received which might have been.
Mr. GARDNER said it was the fault of the finance com-
mittee not to have read their proceedings. They had
nothing more to do than to record them, and if the
finance committee did not read them the fault was theirs.
Mr. CARNES only remarked that he had never heard
them read.
Mr. GARDNER said it would be well if Mr. Came had
seen those proceedings were recorded. He was an advocate
for having matters brought before committee rather than
before the board, and he ought to have mentioned this in
committee.
Mr, BRADLEY said considering the difficulty of getting in