The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1856-10-14 00:00:00

LLIVERPOOL,- TrESDAY.

rir:ir r -yr r

► ~r I"'lr`i'"~

[ADVERTIMMTII
TO-SHIPOWNERS WHO ARE CAPITALISTS, AN, D ,
WISH TO SEEP THEIR MONEY TOGETHER;
AND NOT PAY HIGH PREMIUMS FOR INSUR-
ANCE, (S-c

first instance to a committee, which should have fall
power to discuss and report on the matter refereed to it.
reserving to the house the power as well of final decision
on each question, after the report of the committee should
have been -made, as of. at once interposing and assuming
to itself the immediate consideration, of
.the question, in
case such a course should seem advisable. It think that,
by, this Means, ample opportmilty of discussion would
be afforded; each newleapaopesed meeinre would haYe all
the light thrown upon, it. that could. be given,' by' .:6.--11Y-
vaSSiri4.itS'imoviRionsi:and all avould-ba.accOnapilsl4 by
a grnall`Pbatient Ofthe entire bodye while the ~membei,s of
Other committees were engaged upon-, similar.. tasks.:, ,It .
knight occasionally' happen theta-re decision of the entire John Clare, jtinior's commercial experience developing
house would be different from- thateto-whiche the _come where the defects lie in what are called iron vessels, con-
Mitten had come, but it would not of necessity %now that.
strucfed by people who are not mechanics in either
the labours of the committee had. in every such case been
to the' intellectsor skill, but upon the " tin-pot" principle, he will
loit ; firli.dr light- would have been, thrown upon the
leave that- .proportion of the trade to persons of that
subject by these investigations. and the house would come
class Whe have turned out.. sinking Oates tee consign to
eariieration'of ahe subject; with the advantage oia
watery graves her Britannic Majesty.'s. subjects who are
being vitell'informed with respect: to themoints really at
issue, and with the further advantage of having to con- marine : travellers in 'such things as the .Orion, Ida,
, Taieur; Faith; Forerunner,- H.M.S. frigate. Birkenhead,
slier a measure ;mend whh ;had been thoroughly scanned,
others, ' 1 '•
scrutinised, and aed, instead of 'very erode produc- .and many me Luling a number of colliers that
foundered with their. crews, all orwhich were inefficiently
and unmechanically constructed, in accordance with the TO THE EDITOR OF THE " SOUTHPORT VIsITOR."
brought in. ,Of course it is not my idea that a measure
tious,,such a.S. too many bill§ OW are. when they are first
" tin-pot" principle. The ,public are ignorant -of what Sir.-In your last week's 'Visitor I read a letter from no
they travel by when on board the present description of
,less a personage than John Goodman, M.D., in which he
should'neceasarily undergo the ordeal of three readings in
in favour of which: a committee might have reported
theswhole house. . I think' it would be sufficient if it were iron' vessels; as they are unsafeeand.unseaWoythy from
their badeonstruction and the light-material of ,which they
to be once submitted to the house on adequate notice,the north side of the Promenade that, after all our efforts,.
says he has "much pleasure in informing the inhabitants at
are composed.upon the "tin-pot" principle. : . ,
though if a measure, were rejected by the committee the
If security to life and property be the desideratum the
entire of the present ordeal ought to be passed before itnow open and free of charge
to our carriages, horses, omni-
marine department of the Board; 'Trade have in view,
became law ; but, if I do not greatly err, the cases wouldhe road leading to our premises by the Victoria Baths is
Siticerelgrretts-intentions towards the (i.e..ublic,) into effect Now, sir, Ib,g to inform the public that the road has
right to overrule the decision at. which its committee had ou ht td put their authority iif that board is ' buses," &c.
be few indeed in which the entire house would think it ..theT
forthwith; and cause a scale and mode to be laid down upon been : jest much open -and free of charge ever since I had
as it is now Omnibuses,
which iron vessels will be allowed to be built. Until the care of . the Promenade
sdeelleirterda.tely arrived, that committee having been suitably
It will be observed in what has preceded, t
the
first
the - that is done, there will be no end to vessel's! foundering, ,
&c., and sinking from collisions, such as the Imogene-- . donkey carriages, and railway carts, have had constant free
h t
simple principle of red
each measure in th _ rst
sacrificing some ee60,000, but, providentially, no life. As access to the houses ;' and I cb,alletige Dr: Goodman to pro-
duce any one that will say either that the chains were, or
instance to a committee has been urged. I shall now
my attention has been directed to the art of iron ship. charge Made to tenants, or any one else, on the carriage
venture to deal with the eonstit ution of such committees
building, to attain the climax whereby safety to life and any -
in conformity with the terms 'of my uotice of motion. rroad since the 10th of August. What my predecessor may
body property is practicable upon scientific and mechanical
'
Our endeavour shoeld bein each case to secure a have done is not to the -point, for the Dr. informs his
principles, the development of which appears to have the road .
which shall have a special and accurate knowledge of, and now open and free of charge,
a that the is a
iven Mr. 'Charles Bean (the editor of the Liverpool
a strong interest in, the subject to be considered, whenever. g, whereas it hes been as much so for seven weeks as I have
Albion )2 great offence; as it will naturally prevent
that touches only. ear particular port ion of the kingdom ; shown above. I hope the reswtted Chairman of the Com-
hit pulling his friend, Mr. John Laird. of Birkenhead, in
that :abject whual ae -azet. accomplished by refers-lea the
the way he has done ; as the said person told me last missiopers will now be enabled to see the value of the
suhject to bit consider,' 1- by the representativ -s of that
Wednesday, that he put that scurrilous document in his memorial, which he had. presented to him by the Dr. His
particular-portiorn, of e :•irse with.the power on their part
hi' t* the 6th because I had' running story about Mr.
pu Ica ion, on lust,,. been Holden causing the chain to be broken
to .appOlint, seleqcominittees for -special-purposes.
his friend (Mr. John Laied), down. which false accusation When helhst came over, is all his own imagination, to say
• • • English,the very large
• When the sUbject3 ha opens' to
,be - He' qualified ( it, and said, no-but you the least of it, and on which I should say few M.D.'s are
piolitaisrtfeii **filch . the English members bear to the nu have his ships. .- Mr, Uharles lean said, if you give a tie,
rical strength ' of. the. house would make it desirable capable of inventing. Mr. Holden arrived, in' Southport
to must take a tat. I saidelf .Mr.. 'John Laird, or
to introduce home further principle of selection,on the 11 th of September, but there. was n ,more
'a
any other person,' calling him Self an iron shipbuilder,
which would also be necessary when imperial or colonial made coffins to drown' people, I, as a man, would do my chain then than there is there now. Bat -Jest the
matters were to be considered; but the Scotch members best to protect my fellow-men from a watery grave. As : - ungrateful people of Southport should forget to
would form a suitable body for the consideration of Scotch I, was a man, and always treated every person as one, whore they are indebted, 'he : informs thein that,
affairs, as would the Irish members for those of Ireland. that was a man in principle, and as I always as a rule : during the short-lived honour whieele he enjoyed of
England does not contain within itself any very marked Spoke of people as I found them, I only wanted the same' being a commissioner, he obtained free seats 'on the Promo-
distinctions to be defined by localities. 'Whatever is courtesy extended tome. , I will take care! do not commit - nade ; but he -has Ant told the enormous cost of those
applicable to Devonshire, may also for the most part be I myself by an unmanly action. I told Mr. Charles Haan that free seats to the ratepayers'. It may suit some persons
applicable to Cumberland. It is true, in some districts any person who might be annoyed at my ideas, and purpose to make a great bustle about' free • seats
one party may predominate while their opponents are
.prbvided I was right, might write as much as they chose and free accommodation Gf various kinds for-visitors ;
more numerous in another, but the minority in the first ahout me, if they attached their names and address to it,
case have the same wishes and aspirations as the majority but, after all, the considerate portion, 91 visitors will sa,thfu
then he could not be blamed; but he was much to blame . of . for what ..
in the second. Thus the real representation of the opt- for lowerin the d' itof th . Albion if be were not the
g ign y e tort.
the get
nions of a Buckinghamshire elector may be given by a hay u
besides, those who profess to e.s ch a concern
eoecoctor of that document, as he stated that the poetry f.or th,4l.
member for Manchester. With 'respect to Ireland and at root had given him- and his friend, Mr. John failed, AcOininodation, would give more couvineitT.prOfitof'
Scotland, however,-the, case is wholly different. In Scot- their
such great offence. which appeared in the Albion a short sincerity by giaing something of thoit•hisu, To •
land it may be that the prevailing tones of mind more time ago. For the".gtaod of the public, I again cause medical advice free, lodgings r instance,
free, &0., and then
assimilate to those of England, but the system of law in it to be printed. The' French floating batteries that outrival all other bathing places in Lancashire, we should
Seottaud is so totally different from the English system and ,repelled the 64 lb. shot in the Crimea, and built feom the receive the 'patronage of many ecoetem• t and 'should
is so completely Miknown to English and Irish men, with ' designs furnished by myself to iris Imperial majesty the visited Southport. The Dr. further . IS a who never set
one solitary exception, that it is impossible for any Emperor. also, the same plans being carried out by the we have done hitherto, a discussion
nsaYse we-ehall avoid, as
members, save the. Scotch, to interfere without much risk British Government at the close of the war, by building are we to reconcile this statemetrt wii4:l' the subject. How
of grievous error, and in point of fact the legislation of at Messrs. Robert Napier and Sons, Govan, on the Clyde; , he fact ef_the De.
Scotland has been in . general conducted actually by the Messrs. Palmer Brothers, at Jarrow,' on the Tyne; and having written two lette,s in the,B
Guthpoi p•is ;
'`°r-Pre-
Scotch members though nominally by the whole house. - seated a memorial
Messrs. Samuda Brothers, at Blackwell, on the Thames.
spokento the
Floating various. tunes 011 the * ..e commissione*g
practically in operation with respect to Scotland, though 'dee meei n B Besides -
furnished by me at the request of the Admiralty on the ml I Z ; having
1.::::oject at the board and'
corn.
no benefit is derived from it with respect to economy, of 9th and 16th &July, 1855, but originally brought before his daily conversation ) - Perhapsmade it a' neat prtion of
time, simply because it is unavowed. - the Hon. Sir M. F. H, Berkeley and Sir Baldwin Wake Will ansiver this '
. , some friend of the Dr.'s
is very Walker, Surveyor of the Navy, at Somerset House, us question, for the Dr. " will only unties
With reference to Ireland the case, however,
different ; our general system of law is more in unison the 11th of June,' 1854. co Thi.i
with that of England and there is no obvious difficulty. on This' admission by the British Government building indicates a state of mind of which
the surface to warn those unacquainted with the country will now bid the D •good I don't envy him, and I
'lron Floating Batteries, as thus described, is a convincing h ; he '• bye on the PrOluenade aueetioa.
that by rash interference infi.eite mischief may be effected. proof that my ideas are sound and efficient in naval archi- hoping will find something for the exereiie
4+l'o-one-who is not intimately acquainted with Ireland can tecture, whereby ships may be constructed on scientific talents which will be more prodtictive appttif,
of h '
tell how widely her population differs from that of E
tg7 and mechanical principles. beneficial to his.fellow creatures.'' -
ia
land in character, in customs, in usages, in wants, and in • • • Siooe writing the above I have had ar ' .
. interview with
aspirations.
--, ' . Mr. Holden, when he not only denied ta
The less any man knows of Ireland, the more likely he J ohn Clare, thou bast a good old name, ''d statement about the chains, but al--Le truth of the Dr.'s
is. to think that he may treat Mayo and Middlesex with 0 ! shall it not be known to fame ?: ee •eo expressed his di p
, %et - Nation of the manner in. which the D
Pr°-
the:same, regimen. ,The consequence of this has been, H aply the sailor far at sea r. had conducted him
_. „,, ..., „; , self,-,--I am, sir, yours truly
that, hitherto legislation for Ireland has been almost ' N e'er shall forget to honour thee, . - oee. ,! , y,
Tito
MA.S HoDan, Collector of Tolls
altogether English. Even when it has not been so-even ,
in the few cases when the English members have yielded
to the representations and arguments of their Irish col-
leagues-England has had to bear the responsibility of
the legislation, because the .105 representatives of this
country are too obviously powerless associated as they - - re
are with 496 returned by English constituencies. My
proposition would, beyond question, relieve England from • vs
all unjust responsibility. If measures adopted by the ' el
representatives of Irish constituencies should prove le
la
unsatisfactory, no accusation could be made against the
English for the errors. That, however, is not so material Si
a point for our consideration. It is unquestionably true 11
that by her sway 1r Ireland, England has covered herself T
with odium all over the eivitiaed world, and has *exposed
herself to the taunts of even Despotic Powers, It is
also true that by devolving upon the )"' Tris.. members the :.
duty of initiating legislation for Ireland, she would avert i.
-meets of the odium ; but we are more concerned in oon•
fttioinieg the
_pretiahlo results Of such an arrangement ;neon N
the condition:o this country-. , .
.
- ,---In the first place, I have already shown that it would-
, facilitate the improvement of the law by removing ti
obstacles '
to legislation; but much greater advantages
might be expected from the improved character of legis- t
lation. les I before said, the character, the Customs, the
a
wants, and !the necessities of this country In a great
measure are unknown in England; a committee of Irish
members would be better informed in those respects. i:
P
Even if those wants and necessities were known to the
English members they might frequently disregard -eget, .o.
them, in obedience to the prejudices or the sup- set, he-
posed interests of England. With members respon- -In the
sible to the 'lrish constituencies that would rarely -.ie me
, .i.teed tl--
17 se
-
occur, *so long as those constituencies remained true -:•1-
to themselves. In some cases where the necessity of - iO-
- legislation for Ireland was recoenised, even by --
the English members, they were deterred.from supporting -....--
it because they were unwilling to sanction the introduction
of a principle in this country which appeared to them ..,,AIMEA"
inapplicable to England.
•
If the consideration of Irish questions rested with the ..iton aro -
Irish members, the adoption of a measure for Ireland -.deters, se
could not be urged as a recognition of the principle as Marl!
regarding England. In short, we might hope that our
laws would, in course of time, be adapted to our condition
instead of being framed without reference to it, and the
fruitless effort would be suspended of seeking to adapt us
to our laws. Ido not desire to make the Irish or Scotch
representatives independent of the control of the Imperial
Legislature. ,- England is not disposed to sanction such a
change, however desirable it might be. My proposition is'
merely to commit the earlier steps of inquiry and discus-
-Sion to the body which, lie each case, from interest in the
-subject and special knowledge, is best fitted to consider
and' reportnpon it.. 'The 496 English members exercising
a' 'final supervision-are surely enough to prevent danger
freim the 105 Irish, and the -53 Scotch ; but the weaker
portions Of the.-Milted Kingdom would dprive this special
advantage, that- the heinse would be slche to exercise its
power ,despotically in opposition to the wishes of a people,
legally expressed through its authorised representatives ;
every occasion on which it would so act wouldbe a virtual
aanegatioa of the principle' on which its own existence is
based:, It would be governing by superior force instead
of in accordance with the popular will. Still, the control-
iaipower would remain with the majority of the entire
house, that is to say with the 496 English .members, and
eyes if that security for English interest be not sufficient,
it must be remembered that' they have a still larger powee
at command in the other branch Of the legislature, where
Irish and Scotch representative peers constitute hardly a
twelfth of thelloue(a ..
It may be inferred, from the general Observations I have
advanced, that much of the inconvenience Ireland has to
'contend with proceeds from frequent want of knowledge
on the part of English members, and certain prejudices in
reference to this country. I wish it to be understood,
however, that whilst I have treated of English members
generally, I freely adniit that there are exceptions to these
unacquainted with Ireland or governed ley any prejudice.
A fact which leads me to expect that even amongst Eng-
lish members will be found those. who will ;sustain the
motion of which I have giVen notiz:.
: I have now laid before you a resume of the reasoning on
which I have been induced to think that my proposition
may prove beneficial. I have shown that economy of
time is the one thing needful for the extension of beneficial
legislation a that such can be secured by an extended sys-
tem of select or standing committees ; that so far as
respects Scotland and Ireland, the best committees would
be formed of their national representatives respectively ;
that Ireland would especially benefit by permitting her
representatives to.make the primary investigation of Irish
subjects, and that this could be done, not only without
danger, but positively with great advantage to England.
e have the honour to be,
.. Gentlemen,
Yoars faithfully,
TRISTRAM KENNEDY

TO THE EDITOR OF THE NORTHERN TIMES
folloWing is a copy of a letter which I sent for
insertion iu the Southport Visit;r, but, for some unexplained
cause, has not been allowed to appear. What makes its
rejection more mysterious is, that the editor of that paper
told me that be had no objection to it, aril gave me to
understand that, having reached him too late for insertion on
the 2nd instant, it would appear on the 9th.
in; opi,.ion amongst the generality of the worki
that the Visitor is rather opposed to any on(
himself against the misrepresentations of tb, s
appear a little higher in circumstances than hi
certainly taking
following h€irpa
Ipeettrer i
however such-a-policy may please some of their
find
you will preventsroom others from
thisfrotu
and
valuable paper, I remain, yours, &c.,
THOMAS HODOIT7
Collector of Tolls, Victoria Promenade, Southport

The prevail

C an skill so_well brbught out as thine
L ong fail as it deserves to shine ?
A h I Jack,•as his pure draught he'll drink,
eally full oft of Clare shall think.
E ach novice o'er his glass shall ask

ERRATUM

Aeferiding

TIMES

Who was it made this water cask?
And men the proud truth shall declare
The inventor of this cask was Clare;
Nor casks alone, but o'er the sea
Clare's ships shall float from damage free;
So sailors now shall drink pure water.
Nor fear the cannon-bail's dread slaughter.
Tew are the dangers which environ
Ships made, as Clare's are made, of iron ;
Masts, spars, and ribs may well defy
Dangers from foes,-from wave, or sky,
And when, far o'er the 'Atlantic sea,
.a,nother home belongs to thee,
your house of iron. all oompl^*
o s t rong,
so and neat,
Wli make•wife's, dAnghter's, son's fond prayer
A blessing on the name of Clare.

.4, and

TO THE EDITOR OF THE. NoRT:
Sir,—l rreeive that a mistake has t.
letter of Saturday. I ani trade to say—.l.
late to stay the drain of the precious metals w.
sovereign arid the last panic have disappeared."
what I wished to say, was, that it would be toa late, d

the last sovereign and the last yittorc have disappe,,..,
Your correction of the above errltutn in the NORTHER
TIME; of to-morrow, tvonirl - -
Liverpol, )3th Oct., 1856.

4.-, yours respectfully,

JOEIN WILLS

COLLISIONS AT SEA,