The Express.
London, England, 1850-04-13 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 13, M.

J. Swell) thought that ohjeetten anewered itself. (Hear,
beat) He did set attribute to the hos. member fee Moo
*rose a desire to sewed the Path; bat yet the hen. radio
Rea gemmed to hail some alarm as to the rime be knows,
The hes. member had over ezhlMsed Sleet fa daury M
a for unarm is depaslasat km late Prot Land
of ressluT downwards, wb retains he admitted to ha
most useful, as ecierneybeg wry ansessary inheresatioa; ash yet.
sarpeising to say, he seemed elessmismal NUM* a ewes am
mains teas t feet that thelmumeighteatlaiaquire lutothe
matter submitted, sad ham ad 11•0 sad *aka before they
atr. (Bee, kW.) They all, henna had heard that
Lath SaMataaisatiese mem& good morale," and he doubted
illeb mesa the tlhot of the romamaleation of the
httsswtls somber fse Hastrom with the honourable
teraiibut be Beals sbanslitre. (Laughter and sheers )
The has. member for Surrey had said there had been
nothing dew on the subject of eistmomy nor spoken in that
debate, sod therefore it would be melon to appoint a com-
mittee. Hew he (Lord Jolla Heisesll) should my that,
leaden her Maj sty's (prevenient believed that reduction
sad economy would be the coneeirmnee, they would not
have entertairied the matter at all. They bad been
told that gownsman were is puesession of all the neeesary
informatics, end therefore needed no committee. That was
Mae as regarded all the offices depending as them. On a
former ocomien, when he (Lord John Ronal) proposed a
reduction in the salary of the Chief Justice of Common
Pleas, he was toki it was not sufficient. Every hon. member
at the opposite si Is declared It should he a matter for inquiry
by woman. tee ; and be was badgered he keew not to what
extent because he did not appoint a committee on rig matter
tHrnr, hear.) Hut now, when he purposed taking that
Diana, he was met as vigormuly as before with an orrel-
don. (Heu, hear) He (Lard J. Ruwell) had not heard a
sufficimt objection to the prop gal he had the honour to
submit; but he mild not emit thanking the bon. members
for Stamford and Buckinghamshire for their warm vote of
cot Sham in the Intentions of himself and his hon. col-
leagues as regarded reductions and 'mummy. (.. Hear,
hear," and laughter) Surely the government should be
very secure that could ufforJ to slight such each, of appro.
tia:t rn, mining from the quarter thty did. (" Hear, hear,"
aid laughter.) But, nat•ithAtanding, he thoucht it woutil
Do better on all hands to agree to inquiry. (" Hear, hear,"
and cheers.)
The home then divided, when the southern were—
For Mr. Disraeli's amendment l5O
Agaiust 260

11401417 allsbet — 91
Tlis orteittal Reties ror the appeheteest of the tom Lit tc e
wee then aarepd tn.

Mr. HORSMAN then moved en addition to Lord J.
Rusell's motion on salaries, that the Inquiry be e :ended
to incomes of (nein:Writs:l dignitaries. He thought he
could, in a few wee Is, sheer the necessity of his Ileletiell by
conspiring the ine dzvs of the dignitaries with the in.
COEN* received in other great estatili•hinents. Let
him compare the can of the Lord Cunt Justice
wish that of a dignPary of the church. Tin
former w.s selected from the most eminent of hie pro.
(onion, fur en office ot great toil and reoponsfbilite, and
when he ceased to b' efficient he ceased to be • Judge.
But in the church the faculties. of • dignitary might desert
him and yet his tffice remained, sad he was also the (M-
-inoan of large patronage. Tee Chief Justice had 8,0001.
a year, and bad to provide himself with a residence. The
Archbishop of Canterbury had 15,0001, and a palace was
provided for him—(bear), and yet they would in the former
case Walden an ingeir) bevels* teey thought 8,041. too
high, but would pass by the 15,0001. of the arehbist.op with.
out a word of comment. (Hear) Let him take the WO of
ministers of State, of the Prime Minister. Was his ogee
one of lees state or dignity than that of a prelate ? He held
his offin at the sacrifice of health and strength, and s .me.
times of lite, and set his official In.:nem was only one.therd
that of the archoi hop, one-half that of the Bishop et
Lowlon, and considerably below that of the Bishop of
Durham or Bishop of Winchester. The hen. ens Taber
ter Oxfordshire lest year proposed to take cli tea
per cent. of the inc or the Prime Minister, but he would
not touch that ot tee erieceiriatical dignitaries. The
energies disproportion between these incomes justified in-
quiry. Now let them take the Beard of Admiralty ; it cem-
ented of • first lord and five junior lords ; tt.ey were charged
with the administration of one of our most imp de-
partment'', and yet their united Dairies did not equal the
official income of • dogle primate. Let them take the
customs cad excise. They had two b sede ; one with a
chairman and eight commissonert—the other with a chair
men and six commiadorers, and yet the united salaries
ot both beards did not equal the i Celle of two prelates
lie would take another bran ch into wt.ich the hon. me r
proposed irquiry—that of toreign anibundors aid minis-
ters. They represent our sovereign in ell courts and roue.
tries with wh:gh we hod to deal. There were 33, and e-me
meeting with the high at in Paris, who receive . 10,0004
• year, to the Court Charee d'Atfeires, their malaria together
die not comae within 50 per cent. of that a nount which w es
annualty divi•led emouget toe bench of bishops. He w tuld
take soother service—die govern'.-, of eelonies—they were
43 Ia sunbelt, cud from the bight st in C eada, who received
7,0001. • yen, to the lowest, the goverrew of the Falkland
Isles, who received 4001, the whole expense did not come
near the amount annually divided amongst the hisheps.
'There wee another establishment into which the noble lore
proposed to institute it qeiry—the judicial establishment.
Uf all public funcioneries there were sore so cherished and
revered by the people et England es their jedges—(hear)—
and nag might the judges continue to deserve and the
people to *uterine thee sentimeut. (Chan ) The salaries
of the Chief duet cc of the Court of Queen'. Beech • d of
:our faunae jutgee amounted to 29,0001. a )setr; the Ces-
sna' Pleas and the Exchequer Pad each V • same establish.
meat. This there wore the Lord Chancellor, three Vier
Chancel:on, cad tee Master of the R ills. All these jades'
wars weeks .g jseedenari,", and yet their combined siderite
did not am, not to so much as was paid annually to the
bishops. (11.er, h me) There were 13 judges in S:otland,
cashing 3 ju 'gee for the two cow:tries ; and the salaries of
the whole of an, hard-working men. holding 10 noisier
and re:pen:lgo a petition, did not equrl the parlieniewsry
incomes uf twenty-seven proles,. (Hear, bar.) Toe
flame of the Scotch judges was the Lori President, who's
eatery was below the parliementary income of a Wel.),
prelate; and the salaries cot all the Scotch judges put
together were not equal in amount to the parliamentary
incomes of four of our prelates. Yet, the judicial establish-
ment was one which was supposed to he too costly end in
w..ith some reduction would prohably trk t plan. U. came
now to the last establishment included in the uteri nof the
noble bed. He need that the washer. of that and of the
other house of pirliamene, who held e thee during pleasure
in the administration of the neble lord were fray-eight in
number. The horn knew their labours and t` sir r.eponti.
edifies, knew that their time and their strength were devoted
to the publics/rein. Yet the unite.l easeful of all the mem
ben of the adetinistenior, charged wi:h th• tietratior,
of the sad seal offers, did not . opal the e ,mhined peril e.
meaner incomes of 21 prelates. In this case eyes; sixpence
was paid for value received; and yet wi It the except:on eel
the Lord Chancellor, not one of these public servant', et
home or abroad, had a salary excewlitg the incorn- of the
Bishop of London, or which was more then two thirds ot
that of the Archbishop of Canterbury. lit held in his hand a
• return of the vermeil property left by prelates
who had ;died since 1828. it amounted in the ag.
giggling to a million and • half *teethe,. (H• ar
heir.) This was left by 29 bishops. Now, consider.
log that prelates were generally men advanced is life (at
least they were not young men when venerated to the
effiv), and that there'ore the period within which they ac-
cumulated their ftr,unrs was necessarily very short; and
eeZteider:ll/ further that during them episcopacy they wore
the dispensers of a considerable amount of patrona.c, he
would ask in whet other profession, or in what other country
in the world, were there to be found 29 members of • pro
feed in who had left personal property averaging 50,0001
(Hear, hear.) If he had gone into the case of the calerieler
bodies, it would have been found a still stronger one. Tee
prelates had duties to perform, and many of them
p.r ores 1 their duties most zealously and efficiently;
but the deans and canons had ne duties, ; their offices were
acknowledged, and, at present, injurious doneures. ( Hear,
hey.) Yet they annually divided amongst th.mselves •
greater amount of income than the united eateries of the
functionaries of any one department of the public service in-
eluted in the noble lord's motion. (Hear, hear.) Parliament
hat in 1840 fix d the income of deans at 1,0004. a year ; but
the noble teed had told the house on the nee:outs day that
the leishop of Salisbury had stated to him that if she income
of the vacant deanery of &Waxen were not reined from
1,0001. to 1,5001. a year, he did not think • proper person
could be gut to fill the vacancy. (Lsughte r.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the opinion expressed had
reference to p. nowt without private fortunes.
Mr. HORS MAN continued—Among all the hardworking
sad overpaid mew of the church of England there was
not a single good man to fe gat to take 1,0001.
• year for deing nothing. (Laughter) Not one wouel sell
himself to a sinecure under 1,5001. a year. (Renewed
laughter.) He hoped the auble lord would try the . eperi-
mem, and toll the committee whether or not he had sue
eeeded The proposition which he =downs a reasonable one;
era trusted Met the house would not reject fete, all history sae
all experience told the:lll6st it wastherejectioa of treasonable
proposition, xnioh rendered the success of an unreasonable
one amnia end speoey. He therefore moved the
of then words to the motion of the noble laud: That the
inquiry tea extended to the incomes of ecclesiastical doe
"Marisa."

periods for serials ditties. His besatertbk blend lad
masts est a triumphant NM, and If he dietled he would
divide with bin.
Mr. Nil WDEGATE Odd thM the boo. isentherhai tikes
co
thissee opportthreltunity to Rohe sae of the Nom mink attacks
Cl
Mr. P. WOOD %lit* he entirely s'mea'red is the
spirit et the eheorwitime it the km. member for Cocker-
mouth, via. that It wet meet desirable far the Mare& of
linglaad that this great and swims qualm should be
Imbed a/4W Heltheneht the time woad speedily come whoa
would be .'essay te hays • revision et the themes it
pa
the
id to enr illigoilatise el the dough. He desired
to • soMetent weber bad
cony sot
the great with whisk the Nora
the spiritual lvetmetios and teaching of the people; bat he
thought it well worth y the otheiderstion of say ecommittee
bow fur there Mould set be a prevision for Witter epis-
copal supsriatendesoe. He Leed with the bon. saessber
for Coshermeath, the, it did sot tend to the Imam cof the
church generally, or the beneficial legume* of her teeth-
ing, that there should be salaries of 10,00 W. or 16,000/. a
year sad that they would the the Marsh plated
on 'a
for mere @walla foundation, if they had a
total milieu of this whole @punt, I. give this
postal Wrest to the monies plead at the die•
pod of the Mara for serrying est the greatest of
whisk meld be earrisd out by any nadoe, vie. th• instruc-
tion and teaching tot wily of sealer otheleste, but the spi-
ritual lastrretien sad everlasting welfare of a large portion
of the souttualty.
Mr. HOHBMAN said that he bad made no allusion what-
ever as to the tenure of this property, whether. Public or
private properly. Hs merely spoke of the ineoses which
were regulated by act of whiteout, sad asked the govern-
ment if they would do imam what wee deem is 1836. B.
had no more idea of reflecting on the meatier in which Moss
functions were performed thin he had of retesting on the
manner is which other functionaries performed their
duties.

Mr. 00IILBURN observed that the hon. gentleman who
ROW propomd this measure only walked in the Chad ORM which
he Lad takes on • former occasion ; he recorded
his opinion distinctly in a published do:umen t.
The hon. gentleman took every oecation in his power to dls
Imams and lower the office of bishop. ("Oh, oh," and
" Hem, hear.") The hen. gentleman drew invidious dia-
-1 tinicions between the episcopacy and the inferior clergy,
which hid no application in argument or in justice. The
hon. gentleman must have formed either a very low view of
the epiacopacy or a very unworthy estimate of the duties
watch devvlved upon them, wh. n he spoke of them in the
spirit he had done. The hon. gentleman said that the
bishops were paid their incomes for doing nothing. ("No,
no," and "Divide, divide.") That only proved that the hon.
gentleman did not know much of the duties which they
had to discharge. (" Divide, divide.")
Mr. HORSMAN sold he did t state that the bishops did
nothing. 04 the contrary, he said that the bishops had
duties it perform. and that the deans had none.
Mr. GOULBURN said that the hon. gentleman bad d's-
tinetly stated that the bishops were paid for doing nothing,
and to show that, the hon. gentleman contrasted them with
the judges.
Mr. HORSHAM repeated his dei ial that he had made
any such statement.
After a few words from Colonel S IIITHO RP ,
Mr. MANGLES said that he had
hitter or a snore unjust attack, or one exhibiting so much of
the odium theologicuni, as that of the right boo. gentleman
the member fur the University of Cambndge bad just made
on his hon. friend. (Hear, hear.) Bet tee majority of the
country and even the clergy par.icipat & in the feeling
which had been expressed by his friend. (Hear.) Hs
(Mr. Mangles), as • sincere member of the church, agreed
wi.k his hoa. friend in the opinion that the income of the
ehurch was badly diettibuted, and that the best interests of
the eha'ch required that the subject should be speedily
look-d into. (" ar, hear," and cries of " Divide.")
The house then divided—
F"r the amendment 95
Against it
The motion for the committee was then agreed to.
I'UBLIC HEALTH (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Mr F. MAULE moved the second reading of this bill.
And after some diecuseion, the bill was read a second time.
POLICE AND IMPROVEMENT (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This bill was read a second time, after • few words from
the LORD Anvocsac

PROCESS AND PRACTICE (IRELAND) BILL.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL moved the recommittal
of this bill, for the purpose of introducing ems, amend.
meat, whii.h he said had been simetinced by the hon and
le riled memh.r for the University of (Mr. Nsp:er).
The bill was then &I-committed, and the amendments
were introduee.l

Sir 0. GREY said, it appeared to him, that the bon.
gentlessaa wit* not doing justice to the o'jrct h. had in view
by endeavouring to mix up the subject whioh he bad intro-
dosed with the enquiry proposed by the noble lord. He did
sot deny the right ot enquiring as to the amount of the
episcopal and capitate, see. That right had been
asserted and acted upon. Neither did he cont. nd that the
amount fixed by parliament ought to he taken ea final, or that
the subject wee not a fit one fir fitter, inquiry. Bet he did
say that episcopal and capitular inewnts stood upon a total,
different footing from the official, the juai isl, and the
diplomatic incom,s which were Indy', el in the mo•lon of
the noble lord. (Hear, hier.) The litter incomes
were derivvd, u the honotuabb genleasn had cb•
'treed, from toe public tales, and any redaction ea
tar relieved the country front the pressure of taxation.
With refuel cr to other objects of equal importance, and,
above all, the wider diffusion of spirituel Instruction, no
doubt it was 'Winn to emsider what won the proper ditri
hutirn of ecrleeivtical lecomt ; but the subjrct wee totally
iiWtiact from that of the motion ot the noble lord ; and it
it wore included, thc ri stilt would be to make the ti,m•
maw prmpiesl. if the addition were agreed t-', it wash!
be impossible for the committee to c Include its labours hi the
present aeries.
Mt. HENLEY said he, for one, cou'd weer cons's. to :lee'
with the treat property of the shore's in the same manner as
with the public rev, nue. If there was a eve for enquiry, l.t
ittbe proposed on its own grounds, and sot la the (aviilions
manner adopted that evening. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. AG LI )14 BY denii d that this was the property of the
bishops; it wee the property of the country Titled in certain