The Express.
London, England, 1850-04-24 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 24, lB5O.

The Marquis et LANSDOWNR said that the subj... lad
mat!, te haul/la=
tradis=ebire
irt
lib14111111[17071). hit:educed halo the ether hoses of
peellaninst.
SOROOL DISTRICTS CONTRIBUTION BILLS.
Oa the motion of the Marquis of LANSDOWNS, this bill
was reed a third has mad passed.
Their lordship. adjourned at half-past saves.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TCESDAT, APRIL 23.
The Braman. took the their at 4 o'siask.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
RETURNS ORDERED.
Anur-visaurtos or Correa —On the motion of Mr.
ANSTET, copies of memorials and papers on the subject of
the adulteration of (toffee, or the use of routed vegetable
eubatitetes for coffee (in continuation of three presented in
the last session of parliament).
JUDOS or PRIZOOATITI AND Amass Coollll.—Mr.
FRENCH, return of the number of times Sir H•tbett Jan-
ata Fast sat as juigs in the Prerogative sad Arches Courts
during the last four terms, and the hours of sitting.—
Lord MOTHAM return showing data of appointment of
Dean of the Arches and Judge of the Prerogative Court;
the number of muses heard ; of appeals prosecuted ; of ssa-
teams &dinned, reversed, or carried on appeal : also, show-
ing the number of allegations, libels, articles, sets on peti-
tion, and motions in each year since the appointment of the
present judge of the said courts. Also, a return showing
the number of anus toady for hearing end left unheard, and
of causes heard but reserved for judgment at the ruing of
the courts for the long vacation in each year during the
above period.
CORN RETURNS.
. . . .

Mr. NEWDEGATE having adverted to returns which
had been laid before the hotter, of the price of cora in vari-
ous countries, in pursuance of a motion of the hon. member
for Montrose, ssid, and pointed out, what he considered to
be inaccuramea and deficiencies.

Mr. LABOUCHERE ssieFthat the returns to which the
hoes. gentlemen had referred gave the highest and lowest prices
of wheat at the various ports on the continent, end it Owl
gave the mean prior, being the highest and lowest prices.
This document was Strived from various returns made by
British consuls abroad, and transmitted to the Foreign-office.
They were n d able to give the average price, and therefore
they had given the highest and loweet and mean prices.
Mr. NEWDEGATE thought that the hon. member f..d
Montrose ought not to bring on his motion founded on these
returns, until the house was in poeeeceton of some data on
which they entail proceed with certainty.
Mr. HUME sail that the object he had in view was to
rise the question how far it was time to carry out free trade
into a law ? It was his intention to apply to government
to site him an opportunity of bringing on that question.
Mr. LABOUCHERE thought et would be • great public
convenience if the bon. gentlemen who referred to any re-
turns which had been laid on the table of the house, would
give some notice to the head of the department from which
the return proceeded, which would enable him to give the
aecewry information.
Mr. NEWDEGATII said that his reason for raising this
question was, that there was • motion on the papers an
which the hon. member for Montrose proposed to make
thus specific returns the basis of his motion.

TREATMENT OF MR. SMITH O'BRIEN.
Sir L. O'BRIEN observed that the right hon. gentleman
the &meter, of State for the Home Department bad t o
doubt read a stateLt.ent in the newspapers complaining of the
treatment of her brother. Would be produce any deepatett
stating what treatment his (S.: Lucius's) brother bad re-
ceived I

Sir G GREY said that he bad not read the p spen to
which the bon. gentleman referred, but despatchn net been
received from Van %MM./ La. Al relative to the hco
member's relative, and if he would more for copies rr ex-
tracts of thoes despatch's he (Sir G. Grey) would have no
obj‘ction to produce them.
EFFECTS OF FREE TRADE.
Mr. 111: ME referred to his ino ion reistivo to the amount
of duty raised on insnufacturel article., and said that the
object was to show whether free trade had done evil or no',
and he wished to know when be could have as opportunity
of bringing on the motion.
In reply to I..rd J. Ituestu., whom answer did not reach
the ;slimy,
Mr. 111:ME said that he had no hesitation in bringing on
the motion.

KILRUSU UNION.
Mr. P. SCROPE repeated • question which he had pot
on a former night w►ether Bor 9,000 persons had not been
refused outdcwr relief at the Kiaunt union; this having
oc-
eurred for the third time since the pment boar 4 of guardians
entered office in November last. Eiv wished to ark whether
the workhouses were not full, whether deaths were no: oc
curving in the workhouse to the number of .50 a day, and
whether there Lad been any correspondence wish a view to
renal.

Sfr W. SOMERVILLE said that be had looked through
all the documents In his possession, and had received no offi-
cial information whatsoever. Oa this day be had written for
further information on the subject.
DISTRESSED UNIONS IN IRELAND.
Colonel DUNNE asked the noble lord when he intended
to bring in the bill for the relief of distressed unions in
Ireland.

1;3;r J. RUSSELL said that he arm very ansione to
bring on the bill on an early day.

COLLEGIATE REFORM.
Mr. HEYWOOD, (*ha was imperfectly heard) rose to
MOTO

That all systems of aeadenleal education require from time to time
some modification. from the ehangs of external circumrtancer, the
Pfeirresi of opinion, and the intellectual lineament of the people ;
that, in the ancient English and Irish Universities, and in the colleges
connected with them, the interests of religious and useful learrung
have not advanced to an extent commensurate with the nest re-
sources and high position of thews bodies; that collegiate statutes of
the fifteenth century occasionally prob lot the local autlionties from
introducing any alterations into voluminous cults, of which
a large portion are now obsolete ; that better laws
are needed to regulate the eeremony of nistriculaUun
and the granting of degrees ; to diniinoh the cselu,oe.
ness of the university libraries; to provide for o fairer die ribs:firm of
the rewardsof scenutie and literary merit; to extend the permiroion
of marriage to tutor of cohere; and to facilitate the registration of
electors for the unimesities ; that additional checks might be con-
sidered with reference to the ecatlatted extravagance of indisidual
students; and that the mode of tenure of eelege property ought to
be meliorated, particularly in Ireland :—Chat as it is her Majeels
right and pti prep satire to name 'triter§ and eonimberioncrs to inq
into the ancient univereitiei and colleges of England and Ireland, an
humble address be prevented to her Majesty, praying that her
Majesty will be graciousfly pleased to issue her Royal Corantinsion of
Inquiry into the state of universities and colleges of Oxford, Cam-
bridge, aril Dubl:n, with a view to most in the adaptation of those
important institutions to the requirements of modern litlCl.

Hs commenced by refinrins to the different attempts which
had been made at various times for nearly 100 years, to re-
form acsdemical education. During that period the house
had agreed that this wes a subject which wanted reform.
The question had been dealt with by some very distinguished
persons, and this had led to considerable alterations during
the last few years. The University of Oxford was consider-
ing the question of higher examinations for degrees, and of
• r. golfing more knowledge. There were, however, some
L changes which it was nut in the power of the Universi-
ties themselves, or of the Colleges to undertake.
If they were desirous efficiently to reform the universities,
' they must restore them to the purposes for which they were
originally intended. At present their affairs and finances
were in some instances very strangely managed. Some time
since it was contemplated to establish a museum in Oxford,
and subscriptions were sought ate time when the fellowships
were worth 100,0001. a year—those of Cambridge 90,0001.,
and those of Dublin 30,0001. But thin was to be said, that
' the colleges were by their statutes precluded from making
alteration themselves in the disposition of their revenues,
and they, furs he considered that a commission would be the
best mole of proceeding. There had been commissions in
the time of Henry VIII., of Edward VI., of Queen Mary
sad Elizabeth, and of Charles I. In that reign Archbishop
Laud tried to effect an alteration in Oxforl, and the um-
versity had been suffering ever since under religious restric•
Lions. In has (Hr. Heywood's) opinion, a theological chair
should be established in the different universities, because it
vas exceedingly difficult for a tutor to teach in the same
' course logic and clunies, mathemathics and divinity. With
respect to the college lands, he believed that on
the whole they were fairly managed in England,
but a much better income might be obtained
under a more exact systems. In Ireland, it
was different. Dublin University had large estates in
I Kerry which were let to issielnkmen, who grown down the
tenants while the college derived little bowfin Indeed, he
believed that the fellows hardly knew the extent of the
, college property. He had hosed an anecdote of one who
I asked, whether the whole of Kerry did not belong to the
college. The bursar received 6001. a year for the mange-
, aunt of these estates; sad so good a thing was it thought.,
that he was changed every two years, in order that the,
emoluments might be fairly shared. The senior fellows had
2.0001. a year each from the renewal flan and he was not '
aware that they did anything for the college in return for
their large incomes. The real busineu of teaching was
wholly left to the juniors, who received a very small allow-
, mice, and the scholars a still smaller. There was an
, ancient law in Dublin University, by which it was enacted
that a. the 'units of the college incensed, such increase
should be fairly divided amongst all the officers. He was
nut aware that that law had been carried oat, but he should be
happy to be informed by the hon. member for the university.
There was an importance attached toDublio U oiversi ty,in con-
sequence of its being the great literary institution of Ire-
land. The right hon. member for Tamworth had done a
great deal of good by establishing the provincial colleges,
but SU looked upon them as merely superior grammar
schools, a sort of feeders for the university; and the great
question was, whether that university should not be opened,
or whether the lay endowments should remain as they were
when religious liberty was not so wall understood or so
generally appreciated as at present. Cheat hardships
sometimes /ONO from the application of religious
tests in Dublin. With to the English uni-
versities he believed that Oxford was so much more monastic
in its institutions than Cambridge, that it would be a matter
of consideration how far it would be advisabe to alter them,
bet he thought flue the matriculation genes might be haw
ficially revised is bah aaiversitiee. He had
life seen a mane bees ass as sigaleg of the thirty nine
articles at Oxford. TM yams ass sand little about the
articles, bat a peat dal alma their order of precedency.
This tea ought to be abolished as it inflicted harm on many
conscientious dissenters. With respect to the curriculum he
thought that too much value was attached to ancient
learning, and too little to living and native lite-
rature. He quite agreed with Mr. Hallam that
the advance of England was greatly owing to the sold.
ration of native literature. How ignorant did not en Ox-
ford or Cambridge man appear when he left the university
to travel/ (A laugh.) Hs bed acquired a quantity of
knowledge which he could only leave to gather dust on the
shelves of his memory, while of French, of Spanish, of
Umlaut, or easy modern aquiseasst, he was wholly all. I

obed. He 1/1111&di that la Ozhrd a step had been and* in
MN eight 4l e• iar but be feared that the modern Nimes
were net m sedeat as wu the sanest learning.
Hs HA • pea a• hey good Wan be doneey a
samprised d sea, sligbtened ms as mr, ma.
many. the Due of lanseh4 Kr. Stanley. sea of the late
Bishop al Henri* sad Wier leented atea. Hs brought
this gulden UMW the anise e 1 the bean bosun the uni-
nviting mould not do It themselves; and to one quake
more he wished to all that attemica—he stout
the registration of electors. Ia neither Oxford nor Cambridge
could say me vote without having . previously subscribed
to the thirty-nine articles and that waa • regulation that
ought to be abolished. It might be urged as a ream n for
preserving the sectarian character of the universities, that
they were mainly theological schools for the clergy of the
church of England, bat he believed that not mere than one
halt of the students subsequently entered the church. He
thought that the best talent ought to bs available
to the country foe educational purposes, and that re. ry
man who deserved it or eoald afford it should have
the advantage of an university degree. It was • great ad-
vantage in missy of the pursuits of life, and the London
University did notsapply the deficiency. At present the
estranging, earned on at the uoiversities deterred many of
moderate means and ruined some of those who ventured.
The catalogue of clergymen's sons ruined was melancholy.
(Hear, hen.) Much of this might be avoided if the young
men's bills were sent in every mix months, but the
tradesmen were very lox in this r.spect. He remembered
in his own case one bill which was not sent in for three
years. He thought that much extravagance might be
avoided, and that a great step would be those distinctions of
costume which marked the rank of the student. He be-
lieved that noblemen would receive all necessary respect
witt•out the gold or silver lace, while those badges were so
many incitements to extravagance in the wearer. Tha time
had gone by whea such distinctions had any value fa the
eyes of sensible men. For the rea'ocs he hod stated, he
hoped the house would give its assent to the motion he had
now to submit.

The question having been pat from the chtir,
Si, R. INGLIS observed that, although io notice of the
prtc se terms of the motion or the grounds which were to
justify this address had been given to those bodies with
whom it was prept eed to interfere until the previous day,
the general object of the motion had been *efficiently made
known to all the world by • pamphlet published some time
ago, in the shape of • letter to Lout J. Russell, which
pamphlet formed in point of feet the bill of indictment which
the hon. member for North lAnceshire called urin them to
prefer against our ancient universities.

Mr. HEYWOOD—I was not the author of that pamphlet.
Sir It,. INOLiti—No ; bat the hon. gentleman was cog-
nixent of it, and it was generally understood that it
repreeented his view on the subjece, and wee to form the
basis of his statement. The hon. gentleman's bill of indict-
ment contained no less than seventeen counts After the
preamble, which declared a truism so obvious that it wee
ostlers to .waste time by offering an observation teem it,
the hon. gentleman proceeded to state "that in the ancient
Blueish and Irish universities, and in the colleges
contested wish them, the interes:s of religion and
useful learning have not advanced to an extent com-
mensurate with the greet resources and high pesitien
of that bodies." Now he aersealed to the house
whether there was a single sentence in the hon. memeer's
speech to substantiate that proposition. Not an ins:ante had
the Lon. gentleman adduced to "how " that the interests eine
ligion end useful learning had not advanced to an extent
eommensurate with the great releurces and high position of
these bodies." (Hear, hear.) And unless the hen. is ntle-
man could establish at least a pressen Mtn case against these
institutions he had no right to a-k the cr Jun to inte-fere.
The honourable gentleman had, in speaking of the
interne us wealth of these institutions, confounded the Doe
unities with the C Mere, and heel staked of the 120 0001. a
year, the income of the fellows of Oxford, and the 90,0001. a
year of the fellows of Cambridge, as though the interest of
those Universities was the same in regard to these funds u
that of Dub ie. Bet the feet was the property of our mil-
versiti s was very small indeed, that of Oxford depending as
the profits of the University prey. The great wealth to
which the hon. gentlemen had alluded was the property of
the Colleges, and with it the house had no more right to
interfere or detect that it should be applied to extending a
supply of book, to the University or to any whir purpose
but that to which it was originally devoted than they
had to call on the Fishmongers' Company in London to
contribute 20,0001. or auy other sum yearly of their ere-
perty to the supple of books to London and Westmiester.
Wan respect to the statutes of the universities. they were
in coarse of alteration at this moment. The University of
Ox ord had bean a greet reforming body ever since 1800,
and at 3 o'clock on that day, when the hon. member told
the house that the statutes of that university had undergone
no alteration, a gnat measure of university reform was
under constderati to in the convocation of Oxford. The
writers of the pamphlets to which he had alluded had been
guilty of several misstatement'. Though the original
statutes in some three or four colleges might enjoin mass
and that the Latin language alone should be used, no such
regulations could be found in the statutes of the majority of
the colleges of Oxford. Then the pamphlets referred to an
oath being required from the students to obey statutes to
which Seep could not conform; but would the house believe
it, ne oath whatever was required to be taken to obey the'
statute*, the oath having been abolished in 1537, and is lima
of the oath the Vice-Chancellor at matriculatioe admonished
the candidate that it was his duty to obey the statutes as far
as he could. He denied that there was that profane
laxity in regard to the articles of religioa of which the hon.
gentleman had spoken, and referred to the statements of
several of the university tutors showing that the candidates
were always rigorously examined in the history of the Bible
and the &urines of the church of England, as contained in
her catecbism and Ve thirty-nine articles. He could rot help
thinking that in the eighth count in this indictment the real
object of the hon. member lay concealed. That object was
there sated tote to facilitate the registration of electors for
the universities, and he believed the reel object of the hen.
member was to facilitive the admietini of d_, Inters. (Hear,
hnr.) The hon. gentleman had flattered his right h n.
friend and a distinguished relative of tho right boo. gentle-
man in the chair by regretting that the want of such neje-
tin had prevented his supporting them at the late election
for the university as he had wished to do; but the late
was the boo. gentleman wished to become a member of the
electoral body of the university, and finding that
he could only be qualified by subscription he
wished to remove that which was the bar to
to the admission of dissenters. (Hear, hear.) The whole
question resoved itself into thie—whether dissenters should
be admitted or not, and that question had already been
fully discussed and decided by parliament. He contended
that dissenters could have no tight to admission to any of
the colleges of our two ancient universities, for though
Henan catholic, might urge that in some few instances col-
leges had been founded by members of their religion for
the dissemination of that religion, and that therefore they
had a right to admission, no such claim could be urged by
the dissenters. The large majority of the property of the
two universities of Oxford and Cambridge had been devoted
te protestant purposes, and confided to protestant bends.
With regard to the professorial and the tutorial system
he held a list in his band, which would show that the cols
leges at Oxford were furnished with the most competent
tutors. The senior tutor of that university was well known,
and had indeed been mentioned by the hon. mover—namedy,
Mr. Stanley, the son of the late Bishop of Norwich. la
Baliol and Oriel colleges the tutors were firsecless men, and
the same might be said of the tutors of several of the other
colleges. The hon. member had observed that the greatest
number of the founders had left their property for the benefit
of the souls of themselves and their successors. He (Sir R.
Inglis) admitted that so far as All Souls was concerned that
might have been the case ; but when the church of England
bad reformed itself parliament was asked to sanction that
reformation, which it did and parliament had made it
illegal for any fellow of All Snub, for the last 300 years,
to say mass. When. Hine James the First granted to the
two English universities the right of sending members to
parliament, it granted these members the privilege of
making statements in defence and explanation respecting
the universities they represented. Here, then, was he
(Sir R. Inglis) surrounded on the present omission by the
two hon. members for the University of Dublin, the two
hon. members for the University ofCambridge, and his hen.col-
league the hon. member for the University of Oxford, each of
whom, he was sure, would at least be able to satisfy the house
touching the rights and privileges granted by King James
the First. He might, however, advert to one circumstance
in proof of the extreme unwillingness displayed on the part
of the University to depart from the principle u; on which
it was originally estabed. The student of one college
had lately left 20,0001. to that college, upon condition that
they would add to their number four fellows. They refused
the offer. Their founder had required that the number of
fellows should be forty, and they positively declined, not-
withstanding the tempting nature of the offer of 20,0001., to
add four fellows to the original forty. (Hear.) The hon.
mover had complained that the college in question bad few
scholars, bat those few as it happened had not been the
least distinguished in the university. The general denrip.
tion of university men had been classed by the hon. opener
under three functions : they were eating dinners, going to
chapel, and reading books; bat it should be recollected that
it was part of the duty of university men to read books and
go to chapel, and that it was an inevitable necessity upon
their parts to eat dinners. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.)
The hon. mover had alleged that the University of Oxford
had been suffering ever einem thetimo of Laud ; but he had not
brought forward any evidence to sustain that anent in his
indictment. Another allegation was that many discoveries
in theology had been made since Land's time, and that
it would require clever and able men to teach these dime's-
rine But all the truths of theology were contained in the
blessed bible, and en discovery which did lot prefer that
as its origin and foundation, its Justification and explanation,
could never be worth teaching or knowing. (Hear, hear.)
The hon. member had laid it down in his motion that
" the mode of tenure of college property ought to be amelio-
rated, particularly in Ireland." Doubtless that was a point
upon which the hon, members for the University of Dublin
would be perfectly able to reply. But then it we. said Ox-
ford was so much more monastic than Cambridge, that it
must be a question whether it would not be desirable
to throw open that college. Now, whatever might have
been the character of Oxford in former days—and that
unreliable historian Gibbon, bad called its inmates monks—
yet their habits at the pneent time did not justify any such
appellation. Its venerated president, who at the age of 93,
retained all the freshness sad vigour of mind that would do
honour to • man half his age was certainly not at the head
of • slothful body. (Hear.) The hon. mover bad next said
that it was mesa and degraded to make • man sign the RI
articles when he same to take kW degree, bat was it
not man mean and degrading for a man to sign these
articles for mere temperer, rewards and purposes if he
did not mean to abide by them ? (Hear, hear.) n. (Sir
It, Inglis) stated, as a general defence of the University of
°mord—sad he could not defend Oxford without at the
MOO time defending Cambridge—that the professorial eye.

mm, which so messy p none seemed anxious to restore, be.
legged to the Infancy of eduation and not to its maturity.
(Mere beer.) He could not agree with those who
weal transfer the nomination of professors to the
grown, become he believed that better men than thou
hitherto appointed by eonvocition could not have been
found In Betsland ; and he was quite prepared to de.
fend the elections of fellow* which had taken place both at
Queen's and Exeter colleges. He denied that the duties of
die heads of colleges were light. With respect to the *t-
ot young men, a statement from an anxious father
appeared in the papers,ln which It eras eaid that the gunnel
IMMO of expenditure above income of 15 young men had been
8601. It had been said by Lord Bowdon that students ought
to diminish their expenses • bat he would rather say that
parents ought to evince less ruklasaness. (Hear, hear.)
Wherever the son was aware that his father was worth
20,0001. • year or so they might be certain that he, mains
properly instructed on the subject, would act accordingly,
sad find it easy to get credit. But he contended that as
regarded the necessary expense of the university that it
came within the means of the middle chases. Taking four
outs in the university of Oxford for 1849, he found that the
expense of the first was 851., the second 921., the third
91. , and the fourth that of a clergyman who obtained his
degrees with the small sum of 3301. One of the heads of
colleges told him that his expenditure while in the university
amounted to only 1301 • year. There were in the univer-
silty from 1,800 to 2,000 students, and if 1G or 20 of them got
into debt, and for debt into the Insolvent Court we heard of
nothing else f<r • while; imputations were freely cast
upon the management anti the corporation, and the
root of the evil left undisturbed. Our legit!' ion was
most imperfect as a means for controlling young men
in such reckless expenditure. The fault lay with
the parent in neglecting his early education,
and in sending him to c 'liege with his po:kete full of money.
It would be a great source of regret to him (Sir
R. Inglis) if his noble friend (Lord J. Russell) were
to sanction this motion, and thereby hazard the
value of universities which contributed so largely to
the reputation of England, to the improvement of
literarure, and the advancement of science. The
honourable baronet c included by denying what he
said war some time ago imputed to him by
tho Tight hen. gentleman, the Muter of the Mint.
nsmely, that he had even canvassed for his election. He
thought it war pretty well known that candidates were not
permitted to canvass, nor bo present during nor for some
time previous to an election.
Mr. FOR FESCUE supported the motion, as a member of
and a friend to the university. He believed that such an
inquiry would disclose very little that any individual need
be ashamed, and nothing more in the way of abuse than it
was natural for any great corporate body not acted on
by the public voice to have fallen into. The reformation
itself had to be effected by an exteraal agency acting with
the crown. Throughout a great part of the eighteenth
century the unit, tonne, in common with our corporations,
remained in a torpid state. From the beginning of the pre-
sent century he admitted that great improvement had taken
ppiece in them, °wit g perhaps to the greatly increased intel-
ctual light that had shone within them. But while
he admitted the% be must main'ain that there still ex-
isted in them many obsolete institutions which ought to
be abolished. There was much in these universities to be
proud of as sources of educatioo for the higher classes in this
country, but he could not core-al from hfinelt that there
was much also to deplore. They saw great and noble found's.
tions established for purposes which they no longer fulfilled.
They saw 530 fellows enjoying an endowment of 116,0011.,
and only • few of them performing service Lathe university,
while a great many of them were elected, not on account
of merit, but on account of certain benefices they
held in certain dioceses, or of certain lawn they
held by their family. When he saw these things be
felt how difficult it was for any great corporation to cony out
reform without the aid of public opinion acting upon the
agency inside. He believed that there was a great
deal of life and vigour in the universities. He knew
there was in the universit of Oxford, in its younger
members; but they were shuttled by the statutes of the
univerai.y, and be thought it was the du:y of the state to
come to their relief. He could not conceive a way in which
the state could do grerver service than by so disposing of
those great foundation, which were equal to the revenues
of many of the petty kingdoms of Europe, without diverting
a farthing of any ot them to any other purpose than edu-
cation. It they wanted • precedent, they had one in t9^
ecclesiastical commission. He should like to sea such •
commission appointed to inquire into the state of our univer-
sities—men of high character, who would go into the in-
quiry, not with a hostile intention, but with a desire to
amend and improve, so u to make them more useful to the
community.
Mr. FAGAN said that he should confine his observa-
tions tithe *object of Trinity CiAlege, Dublin. Planted in
the midst of a populaion, seven-eighths of which professed
the Roman catholic penulliol2, placed there with an income
of some 70,0001. or 80,0001. a year, with the rents of 200,000
acres of land at their disposal, and plated there, to use
the words of the Lord Lieutenant of the day,
at the period when the charter of Elia • beth was
granted, for the purp tse of giving a liberal education to
the people of the country. Well in that anomalous condi-
tion in which that university was, he defied any man in that
house to say that it had afforded anything like adequate
education to The pzeple of that country. It was quite true
that Line* 1793, or rather lines 1791, the Roman cetholics
had been admitted into that university, and could take
degrees there, but at the same time they acre nearly altoge-
ther excluded trim the honours and emoluments of that
great establishment. It was calculated that no more than

fine seventy-fifth of Ise honours and emoluments of that
institution were within the reach of the Roman catholic.;
and the natural constqueuce was that the !loosen catholiss
did not go in any numbers to that university. The
number of Roman catholic students there in a
Roman Catholic country, did not amount to more thUlibifty
in each year. They could not gain a fellowship or a
scholarship. He could uodcntand why they could sot gain
a fellowship. It was because all the fellowships but two
were intended for those who intended to ewer the church,
but why they should be precluded from scholarships be
could not understand. And what was the consequence?
He was ashamed to acknowledge it, but he understood it
ass the constant practice fur Roman catholic' to confsrm
far five years for the purpose of obtaining these
scholarships. Now, he contended that there was
nothing in the original charter of Elizabeth, and that there
was nothing in the mare exclusive charter of Charles the
First to prevent Roman catholic. from obtaining these scho
larships. He only hoped that the house would reform these
great universities, which were capable of being made
extremely uscul, and that the intentions of their rounders
should be carried out.
Mr. NAPIER said he really was not surprised, when he
heard the masa of mis-statuments that were pat forward in
that hone, as to the iastitutions of Ireland especially, and
the church and the universities, at the opinions many per-
sons entertained with regard to those institutions. He be.
aeved the best answer that could be given to many of the
arguments urged by gentlemen on the other side of the
house was simply to state the true facts. Let him, in the
first place, state that the land re ee of Trinity
College were less than the sum that was granted
to Msynooth. And the revenues of Trinity Col-
lege arose party from private endowments, because
it was composed as well of grants made by private indi-
viduils from time to time, as from the bounty of the crown.
And then the Roman catholic. retained the exclusive use of
their own college for those who professed their own religion,
while they made use of Trinity College, and now they
(the protestants) were accused of illiberality, and they were
called upon to address her Majesty to ask her to maintain a
great and fundamental change in the constitution of Trinity
College. He would say that the peculiarity:of Trinity College
in allowing Roman catholic. to participate in the education
given there, was of great advantage. It was not true that
they could not participate in the honours and emoluments.
They participated in enry honour and emolument, save those
connected with the foundation—namely, the fellowships and
the scholarships, and one professorship, which the will of the
founder required should be given to • protestant, and a me-
dical professorship, which, by an act of parliament, was also
so confined. But all the other honours and emoluments
were as open to a Roman catholic as they would be
to himself. Then this was not an institution which
was created and founded in a period before the
*formation; in which case the cath thee would say they
were the persona that founded it, and it had been trend. rred
to the protestants. But Trinity College was founded by
Elizabeth. True it was there were some efforts to found
universities before the peeled of Elizabeth. As he observed
in that house on • former occasion some gentle= n more
learned in history than himself had discovered that there
were some previous unlveniiies, and that Elizabeth by way
of destroying thee' universities esiablished Trinity College.
But Trinity College was founded to maintain the pro-
Wawa religion in Ireland. Whether that was right
or wrong was another matter. It continued to admit
only protestant" till the year 1793, in which year an act of
parliament was passed for the purpose of enabling Roman
catholic. to enter the university and take degrees, and that
act of parliament carefully provided that they should not be
members of any lay corporation. Now, as he said before, so far
it had worked well. He had been educated with some Roman
catholic, at the university; he had been afterwards on terms
of the happiest intercourse with them ; and he thought that
such a system was calculated to soften some of the aspenues
that would otherwise embitter society. Several of these
Roman catholic had taken honours there and distinguished
Runnel's., and he was sure he did not grudge them
any fair reward for their talent and industry. But the
university being founded to maintain the protestant reli-
dlon, and having Nand that it could be liberal without
etriment to its own proper purposes and admit Roman
catholic. to the general advantages of that university, while
it could not let them into all without committing suicide—if
that were the case, how was it to be brought forward as a
grievance 1 Allusion had been made to the small
number of Roman eatholies who availed themselves of
the advantages of Trinity College. If any class availed
themselves of these advantages, it would be the middle
class; and, looking at the proportion which Roman
catholic* ben to protestants in respect of property, he
found it almost exactly to correspond with the proportion
at the university, which was, about one-tenth: of the whole
number. Unfortunately, many of his fellow-countrymen
game over for their education to this country—to Ottani ;
and thus a college, denounced for its intense bigotry, was pre-
leered to one which admitted Roman catholic,. An-
other misstatement was this—that • by law was passed
after thews of 1793, to compel young men to take the sacra-
ment as a condition of attending at college. Something of
that kind had been stated in a book, published, as he under-
Mood, at the charge of the hon. member who introdu* d this
motion, which contained as large • number of untruths as
any hook he had ever met with. What took place was this
the visitors stated that they were in the habit of inquiring
whether the candidates tor scholarships received the sacra-
ment on Malty Sunday; and if they found that any had
not done so, further inquiry was made as to their religious

principles,and this had led to the discovery that one w
Roman Catholic. It was said there had been Inatome
Roman Catholics remaining five years in the college repo
dialing their religion for that time, and afterwards to
up again. lie had never heard of such cum ; but
were true, what did it amount to? That when a
Umtata univcrei:y opened it doors and freely adositudoti
to come in and partake of its advantages, those advent,
were suck u to limit them to forsake their faith. Ei
the Roman catholic' must complain that they were abut
or that this temptation was thrown before them. Whet
of place would they make of Trinity College ? Would
build a Roman catholic chapel opposite ifs door,
could such a system be carried cut ? ActOrdivit -0
argument it wee impossible to have an institution f',at
on a protestant basis, for the purpose et mailman:nog
protestant religion, and having the clew, and laity edam
together, and slowing the Roman catholic laity to shale
same advantage. Re had been told by one of the student
Trinity College that the system of admitting Rout, c.,
lice at present worked very eel., and all was humor,,
that if they were let in upon the foundwions they "male regarded as an aggressive body, and jealousies would,:
up. In respect to the other part of the motion, the
member for North Lancashire bud truly stated the
respecting the progress of academic bodies ; but that rule
much better laid down in the Dahlia Uoiversity es;,
for this year, as one of the subjects proposed to
students. The provost and senior fellows had the pow
modifying the course of education. They had done
1833, introducing all the modern ircprurentarits untie
that time. In the present year they had altered the d
for undergraduates; and a mere complete, sound,
liberal committal of modern education was nut int.(
in any univenify in the world. Nu branch of le
lag was neglected. Something had been said abutter)
languages. In Dublin Univ./say they tut cmuniew
and professors in German, Sieniele, Italia', and Ire
and they had honours for them all. (Hear, hut.) A
important school had been recently established, that of
engineering; about 70 students attended it, which
could do br about 10/. over the e :pease of !Letting
Rams on the books? and ihns obtain a most perfect
tlon in a course of civil engineering. The Roman (.4
had an opportunity of getting the best education on the
terms as any Pr-distant had; but the emoluments wen
sore point. The income of tho tensor fellows
1,3001. a-year ;of the junior fellow", whose pre,
exertions to obtain a fellowship were such as to require
to peril the whole mutts of .heir lives on the stump'
then they itieiht bc disappointed—the utmeet locum/
6001. cr 70,01. a year. Surely these wets not exorbitant
the former attained only at the end of a long We of toil
no class of men ought to be more honoured and rt sp
than these wt o devoted themselves to toe purposes of
tint. But the hon. member wante4 to get t 0... tut
ried. laugh.) He ought to knew the: that u
interdicted.

Mr. SADLEIR, after stating that the lint, at nth
Trinity College comprised 230,000 acne, argued tr..
small amount of receipts from that vast area, only ...,
being the nit revenue of the university, proved V
whole e dablishment was very badly managed, and r•
reform. On this text the hon. member foueded an • -
tic discourse in favour of a remodelling of the
tenant system in Ireland.
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON wished to advert to one
only, as to the management M the collegi.te
short time afro a proposition had been mode by tr,,
to carry out the recommendations of the D ran c x,
Legal difficulein not originating with the Board o' T
College were interposed; bat the board were now ;,e
eaucication with the Lord Lieutenant of !relaxed to
subject, and it was hoped that measures w
matured during the present session of pir..ament to '
the comeleints and objections made by a.: boo. sex'.
opposite ()Ir. Sadleis).
Colonel THU/11'80N said that one of the tarred sem,
advantage and happiness he had had dieting tie 1 a o
have had the good fortune of belonging to the univ, re,
Cambridge. Bat without meaning in its smallest
any unfriendliners to the universitioe he felt bout:: t
knowledge that they were gully of soniethis g very -
approaching what he would call a fraud. fee thee . •
riaht to exclude dissenten from the advantages of educe
But undoubtedly the universities must in the end pee
because they were in error, and they should act in
fermi:y with the trogress of the times in whisk w •
He could not allow the dictum of the hon member
University of Oxford to pus without at least sej in"
disagreed with him. The hon. member had slid Mat
was no right in pirliament—meaning thereby to speak
whole got...moment, of which parliaencht was a com,,
part—to interfere with the decisions or doctrines ~
church of England. lie apprehended that was r.ot t.
was contrary to the opinion of his (Colonel Thompse•-•
of the house, and of a taxi s portion of the country.
should Tote ET the motion of the hon. member.
Lord J. RUSSELL—Sir, in addressing the home o
important subject I feel seesibly.the great disadv .r.'
having had no personal experience with re•pect to
two great universities which are main ly the :eject. o
motion. It is however so important that same cutm'Ar
house should state the views which government ere
to take of it, that it is for that purpose I address the
on the present occasion. Let me say, in the nest ;,..
do not think it would be possible for me to ernes.
motion as now placed before the house, comticl.: •
number of questions and placing them in a term which
the hon. member for the University of Oxford to say
form a bill of indictment against the waiver.; ies. In
ever way I view this Subject I should say, at the
that I car. see no cause for adopting any plan of I or,
to which the name of indictment can be applied .
there is any cause for considering that then univer.:"
the object of accusation by a majority of this hou:
sir, in considering this subject there is another per:
subject which I think should be kept totally apart tr
main subject of motion now before the house. I do r.
that the question, important as it is, of the admire. r
seaters to universities should be considered together*
question of any improvement in the plan of educe:
tner dissenters should be admitted to study in the 1.•
ties—a bother they should be admitted at OnCc. set •
the power of admission should extend, does ant, err
be a question of principle as important as the hoc. :-
for the Uneversity,of Oxford said,wheo it was debars
years ago at great length in this house, when L r t -
made a most able speech in favour ei
mission of dissenters to the universities, • ,
signed reason. that have never been answered. r,
occasion I do not think there has been onythdor -or •
administration. Tne Irish parliament deeol,4
when they admitted Roman catholice to degrees ix
voreity of Dublin. Ido not this k, therefore. that a. •.
at all take into consideration the question of the
of dissenters; but when I proceed further in this .7
portant question, with respect to the education .:
English universities--approaching the subject wd.. ..•
care and all the respect which is due to these ,
must, in the first place, say that I do tot think ::. 7
be any objection, and 1 do not thick try h a. .
member for the University of OsMrd made •
jection in principle to the appointmert of a core-,
to consider the state of these universities in erten-
education that tney give. The precedents are cu
on the subject ; the precedent which has bet.:.
to of a conmaistion to inquire into the Stet: of the, ,
of England may, with due respect to the at . -.-
of that church, be cited. Then there was the , memo- -
inquiring into the S ••otch universities. That wes an ::
which was instituted g Ile to endow schoois for
cation of the poorer classes under L vet Brougham s
inquiry. All these are precedents which show the::: :
no objection in principle, to the appointment of a Con.
They show still further, that those who are leading -
these universities ought not to consider it any disperse, -
them, if a commission is appointed on a subject so em:,:r.
to the people of this country. Basing thus ihsteu
the principal matter, I will now proceed to consider a-...,
there is sny case—whether there is any ground of :.:e•
and experience why such a commission shouid be errs
In considering that subject we must consider the elms!
which these universities have undergone a late years: s
let me first state that I think it wit he geaeralt agn
(certainly it must be acreed by all who arroyo of
changes that have lately taken place) that the eeta.
given in our unirenities some twenty or even so ad.,
ten years ago, was not adequate to the Imo.,
and the wants of the present day. t hear.) I b.,
stated to me Ma letter tram a person who was eagae,
classical education at Oxford, that some It) pars tt:. •
mistry was entirely neglected ; that although the 7.
honours in mathematics, mathematics were little se.,
to; that modern history scarcely received any stun.,
that they seldom went beyond Herodotus and L0y...,
aid of small portions of 'recites. Neither Honier.lcu •
Plato, Cicero, Demosthenes, Plautus. Quintilian. 0.:
minor orators were read by any large portion
moat diligent young men, except in preparation ter
examination. My correspondent goes on to state, it
these last few years these defects have been corrected .
the univereity is no longer open to that reproach, a...
these authors have been made objects of attention a.
study. But in making the change that I have state?.
is evidently still a very great defect, and which l this.:
be admitted by all who candidly consider this sub je.-
decisions that have been lately made, both at VitubriO
at Oxford, the important subjects of modern
hates been admitted as questions for exam::
They then became questions of study to the
but then the question arose, how to combine that tt
hel hitherto been the distinctive character of our u•
ties, via., the study in the colleges, with the instrue
professors who were named aad appointed to tesco
moot important sciences. On this subject, those h.!.
have spoken, who have been educated at these
who have taken, some of them, an importer:t part
Sion, they say there is a very sonsielerable defect, iv,
that defeat consists very much in the restrictions et x.
placed by the deeds of endowment of the separate
with regard to the mode of electing to the fellow,'
~,
appears to me that unless this detect can be com,•
1 remedied, that the great changes which hoe,
introduced both at Oxford and Cambridge CO. nee,
the full advantage you ought to expect from them
you ought to expect from the introduction of 1e...
modern history; from the introduction of leetut•
chemistry and political economy. is that the you,.
shall have in the colleges sufficient instruchon
subjects to enable them to derive all the .1
lectures which they would hear from the prO•c•s..r
this subject there are two reasons of deficiency. one , -
suf professorticientlycsanooftteon to, the
.
the benefit they ought to derive; en,' •
next place that the colleges having been 1.,-•
with a view to another mode of instructe"•
is mere favourable to classical learning at Oxford, sr. I,
enableatte attendance at of
tel
the od.:o(urn
matical learning at Cambridge, you hive not.
Colleges, fellows who are able, or inelined . It
i :
studies to carry the young man en n tit.
ledge of those parts of learning which ''