The Express.
London, England, 1861-02-27 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIA3IMIT.

ifoUSK OF COMMONS.—(TaIe aty.)
The stream took the chair at 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINE3S.
r.e folkiwiag bills were read • second time :-I.lanelly
Isaac 0101 Ihok (leares) Leedom, Beckinghanishire. anil
a. %Mead Railway Saliebetry, Poole, sal Dorset June-
: * Railway ; Thames Haven Deck (Ahandesment).
PITBLIC
t Lige number of petitious were presented against, and
octal in favour of, the abolition of church rates.
CHURCH RATES ABOLITION BILL.
sir .1. TRELAWNY moved the nomad reading of this
.11. 110 said he would not dwell on the number of peti.
t. 04 which hal been presented ; but the fact was that
doing six weeks, of the last seesion there were
ttions presented in favour of the object of this bill having
r. less than eseVer.) names attached to them. Neither
■ sd.l he enter into an explanation of the smallness of the
city last session as compared with that in the previous
cession; he would simply remark that if an argument
1. code! on that were allowed to prevail it ought equally to
La. prevailed agaiust the Reform 1:111. He bad on many
oc,xdoes endeavoural to bring aboot a compromise on this
questioa, but all his efforts had failed; and lie now warned
the house that if this hill were reject"' ulterior measure,
woukl probably noon he adopted out of doors. (hear, hear.)
Every one must admit that the continued discussion
of this question 11/1.4 an inconvenience to Parliament and
that it was ("might with 'Linger to the inatitutions of the
rouotrv. .ts to the alleged 'Dainties of the church it should
I. remembered that their position would be weakewil by
the 41.,lution of hutch rates, inasmuch as they would lose
a grievance. Ulmer .u.) He believed be fairly stated
the c.eae .4 hon. members opposite when he said that
in their opurion if church rates were abolished the paw would
10 left with.eit a proper prevision for them in church. lie
did out at all concur in that ..pinion ; he thieight what was
then dreaded nii,:ht Le termed a violent impost:a-
bility. It was hiolly reelable, for example that
in Carat joridois the owner• of land would allow
c homily. to fall done or get jot" ruinona decay for want of
the ine.ill.l of repairing them. (Hear, bear). The church
Lel rot, on its owe OH PR 10g, done all that it might have
dm in this reveal for the poor. Fifteen years ago it was
stated on hi, b authority that it would be easy to provide
tall .I.l4iti.roal lambda"' by a proper administration of the
funds of the church, meth! having recourse to voluntary
contributions. What hail not this curried out! The recent
1 oat moil Puritan' cases showed that sufficient practical
utt..tition was root o.a to that object. (Hear,
heir ) Ile denied that the abolition of church
rites teiel.sl to the separation of church and state.
The abolition of • compulsory levy of twopence in the
pupa could not involve such a consequence. (Hear,
lesir.) It had been stated that the passing of his
bill would create a system of begging which wouLl he
ecry iujiirione to the working clergy. He thought the
elate- of colleeties ought not to fall on the clergy ; they hail •
sushi" went to do in attending to their spiritual duties, and
the leit• should be appealed to for the maintenance of the
lobo,• of the church. (Hear, hear.) The principle of the
sect...lnes. of this impost had been abandoned, for the very
sappater• of the system had contemplated and projected
haesioes of compromise. Even the hon. member for
North Warwickshire had done that by proposing to limit
the rat. to 2d. in the Found. Therefore they were all in
the .11. lost. (lAughter.) The Marquis of Itlanolforil
(the preent Duke of Illarlhorough) once proposed in that
hoc. that rates should not be collated from
attendants at district churches after the lapse
of twenty years. That was :,Iso an abaoilonnient of the
principle of church rates. The question had, therefure,
keine. one of expediency. It was unjust to the dieseutets to
ad them to coetribute towards thesupport of a church which
r cull most he uniform in itself as reesrtled. doctrines.
An illunottion of this VW afforded by the publication of
the well known work entitled "Essays and Reviews,"
which had crested so moth comment throughout the
country. (Hear, bear.) All regarded the working of the
Ise, Ile, Lushington had observed before • committee ,
of the House of Lords, that the difficulty of levying rates
w,s greatly increased Ly irregularities of rating, which, in
some race., he rid, were such as to be fatal to the rate.
(The bon. amber cited extracts on this point from the evi-
demos of I) . Lushington.] It was impose/ale to mad the
law for the collection of church rates so as to make it
operate equally. If any attempt of that kial were mole,
there should be prisons provided for those who were dis-
obedient to the law, with Armstrong guns and
volunteers to man them, as a prevision againat assault.
He email not conceive any alteration of thu law which was
likely to obviate objections. The argument for retaining
church rates Lased ..0 the antiquity of ti,. law appeared to
hint quite futile. I gent lemon who was exam ioeil before the '
committee dwelt minutely on the ancient machinery for col-
lecting rules for the parish eihurch ; Lut any attempt to revive
what he so much admiresl could only exiitte public ridicule.
He must UV that hoe. member, who objected to the
abolition of the church rates on the ground that it would
leave the church without adequate support did not do jun- ;
ti.e to the religious community to which they helotrzed.
The dixactiter, supported their chapels without any ilitfli !
eulty, nail why should it be suppoised that churchmen '
would allow their places of worship to fall into decay. 1
(Hear, hear.) It was he believed • general practice for
clergymen to collect large amounts from their congregations
fur various religious and olucietioual purpoass. Surely, then,
the ripen. of the church might safely be left to voluntary I
rontolnitions. He concluded by earnestly entreating the
bowie at once to settle this question, sod thus prevent an I
tecitenient which it might Le impossible to restrain,
the main danger to the church arising not from assaulta •
fool without, but from danger witbis.
Led FER3IOI" seconded the motion. He said the dues- '
Lim was now in each a position that there must tie a
speedy settlement. Honourable members opposite must '
either step backward, and seek to make church rates uni-
forint,. compulaory, or step forward with them (the liberal
members) and secure the abolition of church rates. In Ireland
church rates had been abolished, tithea commuted, sal one
fourth of the revenue taken from the church ; and the re. !
stilt of these changes had been to nuke the church stronger. '
He regretted that Irish member., who usually at among
the tories, but who, in all questions in which the established '
church of Ireland was concerned. were at strong in oPPO-
- were on that occasion conspienoui by their absence.
It was, he knew, alleged that Lord Derby, who was Metre-
mental in bringing about the changes which he had just '
invotioevd. regretted the part which be thus took. He
(Led Penney) wee not surprised at that • he was not '
surprised that the adroate of sbeolutism maths defender '
el were...ion abroad—(laughter from the opposition)—wan
sot setialled with bit past liberal policy's regarded Ireland. '
(Reamed opposition laughter.) The abolition of church.
rata would compel • readjustment of the revenue, of the 1
church, no as to bonsai the working clergy, and thereby '
benefit the country. He regretted to see in many hon.
ruembcrs opposite • distositio• to treat this question as a
Party one. ("No, no, from the opposition.) Let them
sot to relate to argument what they would in that Lase have
to yield to form. (Hear.)
Sir W. IIEATHCOTE moved as an amendment that the
lall his read a second time that day on months. He said
if the hon. member who moved the seeped reading of the
Inll could succeed in convincing many who sympathised
with lam out of doors that this bill would not injure the
rhareih. Le would tinduldv lose a great deal of support.
Ilaughter ) He believed that the bill was a great idaw at
the ei.tablishod church, unel was no intended by members
eho wanted it to Le 110411r.1. He, for one, ilia not desire
that things should remain as they are. (" Hear, hear,"
lona the opposition.) He was prepared to make
some isnicession in spite of taunts of iwoneisteney. He
obi not object to exemptioes ,• what he del object to was
those who were exempted baying the power of deciding
for others who did not agree with them. (Hear, hear.)
He admitted that exeraptem was objectionable on principle, I
Let he did not believe that, practically, members
of the Peace Society would in cousequenee escape the pay
meet of war taxes. A heavy responsthility rested on both
sides of the house in relation to this quietism (Cheers ,
from both sides of the home.)
(Left speaking.]