The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-11-09 00:00:00

SELECT VESTRY.

The usual fortnightly meeting of this board was held yes-
terday, the Rev. Rector CAMPBELL, in the Chair. The
other members present were—Messrs. Came, Hand, Gard-
ner, Bradley, Whitty, Moss, Denton, Mellor, J. Jones,
Blain, Whitby, Sumners, Luff, Clarke, Hutchinson,
Troughton, Savage, and Pemberton.

FINANCE commirrEE.

The proceedings of the Finance Committee were read.
The Mayor had applied, asking for the application of some
of the parish funds, to enable two natives of Nova Scotia to
be sent to that colony. The biayor was informed that the
poor rates could not be legally applied to this purpose, but
the matter was referred to the Voluntary Rate Committee,
the men, in the meantime, being provided for in the Work-
house.
Mr. CAEN; in moving the confirmation of the proceed-
ings, observed that they required no comment. Con-
firmed.

WORKHOUSE COMMITTEE.
From the proceedings of this Committee it appeared the
number of persons admitted into the Vagrant Sheds, last
week, was 910 ; of these 505 were males, 260 females, and
105 children. Number of inmates in the House, 1842 ; in
Hospital, 452, of which 49 were fever and 43 itch cases. In
connection with the recent suicide of a female pauper, a re-
port was read from the Architect and Surveyor, as to the
state of the Lunatic Cells. They suggested that the iron
bars in the cells should be removed, and external shutters
substituted, and as no better accommodation could be at pre-
sent afforded in the House for this class of inmates, that paid
officers should be appointed in each ward, in the place of
pauper attendants.
Mr. CARNE observed, that with regard to the wards for
lunatics, he could only say that, together with the othergen-
tlemen of the committee, he had proceeded through the work-
house, and inquired of Mr. Weightman whether there was
any space which could be applied to the lunatics; and
they found that there was no place in the workhouse more
suitable for the purpose than the present. He had to re-
mark that the lunatics brought to the workhouse were only
detained for fourteen days before they were sent to the
asylum. Many of them were persons labouring under de-
lirium tremens, and some time violent, and therefore it was
necessary that the parish_ should so provide, that, while in
the house, such peoplo could not injure themselves. But
unless they were prepared to build new wards, It,
possible to make any better arrangement for the custody of
the Innatiog than that at precont oxizting.
Mr. Moss said that Mr. Carne's explanation was not at
all satisfactory to his mind. It appeared from the report on
the governor's book, that a woman, named Mary Connor,
was admitted into the workhouse the 4th October, and that
she remained until the 27th of the same month, when she
destroyed herself by cutting her throat with a knife. He
(Mr. Moss) should like to know where the blame rested in
this matter, for certainly it was more than strange that a
woman in the condition of mind of the deceased should have
had the opportunity of destroying herself at nine o'clock in
the broad day. Really it was too bad to think, that in a
workhouse like theirs, with such a staff of officers, such an
occurrence shouldhavebeenallowedto take place. Hebelieved
it was a pauper attendant who had charge of the woman
and left the knife in her way; but he could not help
thinking that, under any circumstances, a very serious
blame and responsibility attached to some one. Putting
that aside, however, he thought the report of the coroner's
jury, included in the governor's minutes, should really be
read for the Vestry, for instead of taking that light view of
the case, which Mr. Carne had done.—
Mr. CARNE : Excuse me, I took no notice whatever of
that case.

Mr. Moss replied that Mr. Carne had said that the
arrangements for the reception of lunatic patients into the
house, were the best that could be provided. Now he (Mr.
Moss) would read the report of the coroner's jury, and the
expression of their opinion, in which he entirely coincided :
for he had gone over the house, and he could not believe it
possible that any such place as he had seen, could have been
provided for the purpose of lodging lunatics. The spirits
of every one would be depressed there, and as for the
lunatics, it was more calculated to aggravate than alleviate
their disease. Mr. Moss then read the report of the
coroner's jury, in which they condemned the present lunatic
wards in the workhouse, as being badly ventilated, cheer-
less, dangerous, and fit only tor condemned criminals, and
recommended that new lunatic wards be provided. Mr.
Moss then proceeded to say that the governor had told him
he would not stop to make any remark upon the subject
of the extravagance of their proceedings, in employing an
architect at a very large remuneration, who was constantly
sending them in reports, from which they derived very
little satisfaction, and who was the artificer of these wards,
which were only to be seen by everyone to be universally
condemned; he would not remark on that subject, but he
should say that the governor had stated to him that it was
quite possible to erect an independent place in the yard,
which might be lighted from the roof, and properly secured,
for the reception of the unfortunate lunatics. That might
be done, he understood, at a very moderate expense, and
the present cells could be turned to some other purpose ; for
really they were, as he had said before, perfectly unsuitable,
and a disgrace to the whole establishment. He did not
mean to say that any blame attached to the governor with
respect to this unfortunate affair. The governor had told
kept the knife in the ward for the purpose of cutting bread,
and that having placed it in some insecure place, the unfor-
tunate deceased got possession of it, and so cut her throat;
but, at all events, it was quite time that some better precau-
tion should be adopted to prevent the recurrence of similar
circumstances. Now he noticed that all the inmates of the
house were allowed the use of knives, and he thought very
improperly. If any of the board went into the yard, they
would find the paupers standing about with large clasp-knives
in their hands, and the use to which they principally applied
them was in sharpening them on the window sills—so much
so, that the stones placed in the windows within the:last few
years, were now nearly worn out. He appealed to many
members of the board if this were not the fact, and if all
that he had stated were not true.

Mr. CARNE said nothing in defence of those cells, and he
had nothing to do with the buildinglof them. All he remarked
was this.—They applied both to Mr. Weightman, Mr. Wylie,
and to the governor, who went round with the members of
the committee, and they all declared there was no place in
the building at present that could be altered to make room for
lunatics which would be superior to those existing. The
only remedy would be to build new cells, and therefore all
they had done was to remedy as far as practicable those in
existence untill new ones were built. Mr. Moss knew they
could not build them in a day.
Mr. Moss : But those are new buildings.
Mr. CARNE : Had nothing to do with their being built.
As chairman of the committee he merely stated what had
occurred, and if the governor had stated to Mr. Moss that
a remedy could be applied he did not say so to the committee
when they went around. If he had told Mr. Moss he had
told him something which he did not tell before. • If blame
rested with any one it was with the building committee of
the workhouse ; the present workhouse committee had noth-
ing to do with it. They had but to superintend and see
such a sufficient number of persons were employed as would
exercise a proper surveillance over those people. More than
that coubd not be done, and no blame attached to the
committee.

Mr. GARDNER should like Mr. Moss to state who
and what was extravagant. Because if there was anything
extravagant either in the renumeration of the officers, or
the management of the house, if it were brought before the
committee it would be altered. He observed, however, in
everything that fell from Mr. Moss that he invariably
abphed the term " you "—as " you did this ". Now, why
did not Mr. Moss say at once "we " ? _

Mr. Moss : Because I am not a member of the Work.
house Committee.

Mr. GARDNER replied that he was a member of the
Board, and if he brought anything that was extravagant
before the Committee it would be rectified. In place of
that, however, he was constantly saying, " you did so
and so."

Mr. Moss was astonished that Mr. Gardner, who appeared
to be so much of a sticklerfor, and who had seen so much
of public matters, did not conduct himself properly.
The CHAIRMAN observed that Mr. Moss was interrupting
Mr. Gardner.

Mr. GARDNER, again reiterated that if Mr. Moss brought
anything that was wrong before the Committee it would
have been rectified. With respect to the observation that
the cells were only fit for condemned criminals, he (Mr.
Gardner) should like to know why condemned criminals
should be placed in gloomy cells. (Laughter.) It was no
laughing matter. They should be placed in cheerful places
—(laughter) —where the ministers of religion could go and
console them ; for he did not think that they had a right to
make them worse. With regard to the lunatic wards, Mr.
Moss had recommended sky lights, but he (Mr. Gardner)
should like windows, or something through which they
could look out and cheer themselves.
Mr. DENTON thought that Mr. Moss's observations would
have come in their proper place if made before the Com-
mittee, and, if so made, they would no doubt have been at-
tended to. He agreed with Mr. Moss, however, that the
place for the lunatics was not a fit or proper place, but,
under the circumstances, they could not help it. They had
no other place in the house to appropriate for the purpose.
until the new buildings were completed, and at them
they were now working as fast as they could.
The CHAIRMAN remarked they should do something prac-
tical. They ()light to attend to the verdict of the coroner's
jury. It was important to be considered that this woman
was in no way to be considered dangerous, and that ex-
empted the officers from all blame. When a person was de-
termined upon self-destruction it almost amounted to an im-
possibility to prevent it. He could not say that he saw any
blame attached to the governor or officers. But what he
wanted to say was this, if those cells were anything like
what the coroner's jury described them, they ought to alter
them as soon as they could. He should like to know if any
additional accommodation for lunatics was contemplated in
the new buildings. Mr. Denton said this was within his belief,
and then that a remedy would be provided—was that the
case—was it in contemplation to do anything ? Although
lunatics were only there temporarily, still they ought to be
put in such places as were fit for them. They might proba-
bly be brought into a state of delirium by vice.
Mr. Moss She was not ; she was a young woman.

The CHArnm.A.w did not know that she was in the cells-
was she ?

Mr. Moss : Yes.
A discussion here ensued on the subject, in which nearly
every member of the board was talking at the same time,
thus rendering all attempts at reporting utterly futile.
Mr. BRADLEY (when the clatter had somewhat subsided)
remarked there was no doubt the fault arose from the con-
struction of the building ; and it was in contemplation to
remove lunatics from it. The present buildings were in such
a state no other place could be provided. He did not think
there was any fault : those cases would elude the greatest
vigilance ; and he did not think the coroner's jury ought to
have brought in such a verdict. The cells were not so
cheerless as represented ; they were low, but not so bad as
represented. He (Mr. Bradley) thought more had been
made of it than there was occasion for.

. _
The subject then dropped and the proceedings were con-
firmed.

INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS.

From the proceedings of the committee of the schools it
appeared that a sub-committee had been appointed to en-
quire into the training pursued therein, and to obtain such
information as to the working of other similar institutions as
might be deemed advisable.
Mr. GARDNER in moving the confirmation of the proceed-
ings, said that in accordance with the recommendation of
the select vestry a sub-committee of engineers had been
appointed.
Mr. Moss : A sub-committee of the school committee ?

Mr. GARDNER : Yes.
The CHAIRMAN said he attended the schools on the pre-
vious day to meet Mr. Brown, the Inspector, and he said
the Schools were in a very satisfactory state. He (the Chair-
man) had some conversation with him, and he seemed to
think that more land would be required for Industrial
Training.
Mr. Moss : A good suggestion.
Mr. Lug suggested that the land running down to the
railway should be secured.
Mr. GARDNER. : The matter is under consideration.

The proceedings were confirmed.
Communications were raid from the Poor Law Board con-
firming.the appointment -5r the medical officers elected by
the Board, and the dispensers ; also, enquiring whether in
connection with the project of apprenticing several girls to
Mr. Hobson, of the Havannah Mills, Congleton, any com-
munication had been made to the Guardians of the Congle-
ton vutv. va bba —4,3nn4_J
Mr. HART said no communication had been lima. co 41,..
Congleton Guardians. Mr. Hobson had some girls from
them before ; he was a highly respectable man, and pro-ved
a kind master.

THE HEALTH OF THE TOWN.

Mr. BRADLEY said, although the Medical Relief Commit-
tee had no official report to make, yet he was happy to say
the town was never in a more healthy state. In six of their
districts they had no diarrhea at all, and in the others there
were only a few cases, numbering perhaps nine altogether.
Yesterday they had, unfortunately, a very malignant case of
English Cholera, presenting itself in Paul-street, and re-
moved to the Hospital here, and the party had since died.
With that exception there had been no other case. The
cases now remaining in the House were reduced to four.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. DENTON here rose and was about to put the question
of which he had given notice, when,
Mr. Moss rose amidst laughter, and complaining of a very
objectionable practice which he had witnessed at the Work-
house on the previous day. He alluded to the system of fever
patients being conveyed to the Workhouse in cabs, whilst
the Workhouse van was idle. He suggested that no person
should be received into the fever ward unless conveyed there
in the Workhouse van.
Mr. BRADLEY said this could not be done. Persons were
often brought by their own friends, and how could they con-
trol them ? _ _ _

Mr. GARDNER said they should inform the Car Commit-
tee, and they would make a regulation against it.
Mr. Moss believed there was a law against it.
Several members expressed an opinion that it was a mat-
er in which the Vestry could not interfere.
Mr. Moss : If you are satisfied I am not.
Mr. GARDNER : They do not like to ride in a pauper van;
they like to come respectable.

NEW MAGISTRATES.

Mr. DENTON then proceeded to put the question of which
he had given notice. This question resolved itself into two
considerations, first one of expense to the parish, and se-
condly, disappointment on their part at the newly appointod
magistrates not attending to the duties for which they were
intended. The Select Vestry had provided suitable accom-
modation here for the magistrates, and also for the parties
who were to be sent to Ireland. The magistrates of that
day refused to attend, and the consequence was a batch of
new magistrates were appointed on the application of the
Vestry. From all he could learn those new magistrates had.
also refused to perform those duties. Now, he wanted to
know the truth whether it was so or not. If it were the
truth, the parish had been put to the expense of £2,000 or
£3,000. which was of no earthly use, and they would occupy
premisesin Riley-streetperpetually. He didnot by any means
wish to attach undue importance to this subject, and he
would merely put the question of which he had given
notice :—" The reason why the pass-office in St. Paul's-
square has not been given up, and the business of that
from laahniegadatithlltastwrnaUlks,et'n'atik Atm%
been anticipated by a report from the committee, and he
listened with attention to hear such a report read.
Mr. BRADLEY remarked that the delay had been occa-
sioned by the continued absence of Mr. Johnson, who had
been detained out of town a few days longer. But, as
soon as he did come, the subject would be taken up in a
proper manner. It was impossible for the committee to
meet until his return ; and then the report would be of
such a character as to give satisfaction to Mr. Denton, and
the members generally.
Mr. Moss confeised, without understanding much of the
matter, (laughter) he agreed with Mr, Denton. It was
really too bad that three months should elapse, and the
business of the parish not be attended to, because Mr.
Johnson was an invalid, and that application should be
made to the Secretary of State, for an increased number of
magistrates, and then that months should elapse, and those
magistrates should have taken no interest in parish affairs.
It had been intimated to him that those magistrates could
not consistently act as had been expected. If it were so,
a great many harsh remarks might have been spared with
regard to the old magistrates. They performed their duties
most satisfactorily, and they ought not to be buffetted
about from place to place to perform those duties. He
congratulated the new magistrates on their elevation to the
bench, although, but for the Vestry, they should not have
got there.

Mr. BRADLEY hinted that the same power which caused
their elevation, might cause their removal.

Mr. SAVAGE said he had it from one of the new magis-
trates, they were determined to take no interest in parish
affairs, and that they would not attend here.
Mr. DENTON : They will do as they please.
The CHAIMIAN : There is no question before the
Vestry.
The proceedings then terminated.

THE AMERICAN FisirEmEs.—The Portland Adver-
tiser states that the schooner Lookout; Capt. Littlejohn
arrived at that port from Bay Chaleur, had ninety barrels of
mackerel taken from her by the British cruisers, en acconnt of
alleged fishing within the prescribed limits.
SQUIRREL HUNT.—The National Intelligencer pub-
lishes the following article of information • Eighteen persons
in Plymouth Hollow, Connecticut, went out on a squirrel
hunt for one day. They brought in at night twenty-nine
hundred and ninety ! There must have been a " mess meet-
ing of squirrels on that day. It is not to be understood that in
cases of squirrel hunts, common in many parts of the country,
the number of animals literally suffer, in propriis perssonis.
The Squirrel is the unit of a conventional currency, in which
the amount of game is reckoned. A bear for example may be
rated perhaps at 500 Squirrels, a Racoon at 100, a wild Tur-
key at 50, and a Partridge at 20, or at whatever other rates
may be thought suitable, according to the difficulty of bagging
the respective animals, and the desire of making a handsome
mount.

BLOOMSBURY COUNTY COURT.—A case of consider•
able importance to railway companies was beard at the above
court. The proceedings were taken by G. Clive, Esq., the
judge at the Southwark County Court, against the North-
Western Railway Company, to recover the sum of 108. 6d.,
which had been, as he conceived, improperly charged to him,
and which he had paid under protest. Mr. Angell, an at-
torney, appeared on the part of Mr. Clive, and Mr. H. Grif-
card, the barrister, instructed by Mr. S. Carter, their solicitor;
attended for the railway company. The proceedings occupied
some time, but the brief facts are these :—On the 24th Sep-
tember last, Mr. Clive gave directions to Mr. Dyer, the pro-
prietor of the extensive horse repository in Dublin, to forward
three horses from Dublin to London. On the evening of the
21th, M. Clive went to Euston-square station, and informed
one of the company's servants that he expected three horses on
that evening, and were, he had not the least doubt, shipped at
Dublin on the evening before. He also inquired at what time
the train by which they had been forwarded would arrive, and
not being able to reeeive the required information he went
away without paying for the transmission of the animals. On
the same evening, at eight minutes past 8 o'clock, the horses
arrived, in charge of Mr. Clive's servant and that person not
having the £l2 to pay fot them, the animals were sent to the
Euston Hotel livery stables for the night. On the following
day Mr. Clive came to the station, paid £l2 for the convey-
ance of the horses, and also 103. 6d. for the night's livery.
'this latter sum he paid under protest, and now sought its re-
turn, on the grounds that the company had no legal ground for
such a charge. Mr. Giffard, in the first place, urged that there
was no case, and contended that, as Mr. Clive himself could
not state what time the horses were shipped in Dublin, it was
impossible that the company's officer could inform him at what
time the animals would reach Euston-square. The railway
company could not hold themselves justified in incurring the
responsibility of sending three valuable horses along the street,
and they could not do better than send the horses to livery.
The question was, whether the bill was not a perfect reasonable
one. The learned judge, however, gave judgment in favour of
the plaintiff, and the decision seemed to cause much surprise
in 'out,

THE NORTHERN DAILY TIMES.