The Express.
London, England, 1850-04-17 00:00:00

TEE S. WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 17, 1860.

hy you sh •u'.4 hot allow the►
Dar), New 10 be
°ben it does not ito through the post. (Hen.)
es• will Day 'sat the above are hut newspapers ;
rrr„
;aye the tat you hairs to let them go
di; a. tti w•pepi re ? It is because they
selves st the ponoffiee is the *kneeler of
the, toe allow them is go bey ea Duerapapara,
we-
ereitt book, whine thaws the artvan-
.re i; Alf ••Ivory
,„h.o theta and eendelabree. Now, if he waste
"- d s h.' k thniugh the P.at-olltee, like • newspaper,
I: ? lie eon to the Stamp (Alt., and says
he le about to brill out • newspaper ; he obtain
rtasFed pjyer, he prints his book of prises ea it, and la
rrueo: the newspaper stamp ke goes free of advertise-
thromb the iiret-ils,e; and this we are told
! t,iwwary. in order that newspapers should go fee*.
mat anomalous sad absurd mystem, and I
; sun that you oudht to do by all the other newspapers as
• do be these 63 registered newspapers and be
; wk. • I woad make it • rale that all should be
;Id at all times, or that ell should be stamp. d when I
go ky raft, ant sastsmped when they de not. It'
; ;it be lair t. r the house to tell en the Cbaseelior of the
Evtayeer to do this, if he does not wish the meat system''
t, !•walc down, • s I feel it will certainly de, sad will
tow! bring that departmeat of the stamp duties
• deeepste. I contend that on the ground of sisa-
tv alone. Worm' h as all the molt loaned
erahad totall failed to define what they meant by a ne es-
tire?. that you ought to abolish the clamp duty to that ex-
pi., ?weenie by maintaining it you do • great injustice by
4 mu, pipers which give news to go untwed, whilst
etted have to pay. I could bring dower to the house a large
stye of unstamped newspapers, if it were not irregular to
a. is halt are weekly periodiene, and which
cr esecu'aud sang the gr• at masses of the commasity.
::.ne papers contain those very theistic, which some
cra"ernen think they have kept within certain limits
r, the Waal of the stamp. I believe that some of
Eere unswayed newspapers are very reepectable, bat I on-
:nested that they are all at liberty to promulgate their
7.:itical theories. Now the Newspaper Stamp Act says, " that
myna who puteivbes nay intelligence, news cr facts, or
c? remarks or obseresions thereon, should be made liab'e
: • the stamp dutiee." Ni:w, I mean to say, that
.th regard to the la ter part of the pumps
which I bare quoted from the act, I apply to
s those periodicals which I have made' and I observe that
most of them ate giving th. it views and sentiments to the
.e'rld. The law has no: the effect of pereentiog them from
sing so, and te.ey give their political theories without let or
I..dranoe. (Hear, hose ) Having made variousquotatlens
• prove that the reasons ordinarily alleged to excuse the Ho- I
r....tion of the stamp ditties were utterly fellation, and Viet
,a• rrienee showed that the icy did not secure the respects
t. ti of the pros, and in Let was levied trader statutes
es:.b stepped the circulation of truth, but allowed
as untaxed propagation of the vilest falsetto:4s sad
I.'e.s. the honourable member went en to say with re-
citii to the Tames end other influential newspapers
is not tit be doubted that the effect of this tax is to
:.a:: th• it circulation. There are many who t.. 1 us
est thy have an interest in maintaining the stamp
• sad ore rot favourable to it. removal. 1 will not
tour into that argument. and I thiiik that so hon. member'
el•hrs me ta do so. What, was • monopoly in inteliiger.e•
t.• be supyorted by flea regulations ? No ; the idea must be
vatted be every man that lam now riddreesinc. (hear.)
I do set believe is this monopoly. Ido sot bell. vs that
ripen a 1 establiitted reputation lose by the repeal of
scup; but I am coadleut that they would be willing
:• share with ethers the advantages to be derived by the
gyn.: of the duty. Toe Mauve positions of newop,ii...rs
• not bt, changed at all by such • change et
Is weal/ he ournmon t t all the newspapers, sad I
, : undentond that th•re is any good meson for sup-
.bat there Is arc ground for the leer that the removal
, • • 'temp antic' would materially injure those papers
.• now circulate none the wealthy climes. Men,
Lis, I believe that the Timer newspaper pay. 60,0001 a
eta to stamp', and ft would be of vast import-
to have • rentiuion of that duty. It is
t however, with reference to this elan, of
t ~r. are that my notion is addressed, it is with
ottritee to that clue which I have alluded to ale ady,
tt• rmallsese o: who,* price enable s them to reach the
t a tee of the paid', and which, neeettb.lo se, are pre-
. • . liy the stamp act from giving fiteo which would be
to the people, son which they ought to g.ve.
• ereer to the ease of • Nora lel sewspap.r,
•••••• •• Re f.ornaer. to show how calomel, and sncertala
• :ra tc..as.i:c w the Mama act. the Solicitor of Stomps gave
r.ettort • caution• that ha publication was violating
::.• New•papor Art. Tao e-rreri• ad, nos was as follows:
I:- none. soeveset House, .7th Marsh, 111W—Gestlemee4
•7. rat Mi. based h .•trur been direited to min artie'ea of
• . ies • soma:reed in Noe. I. anu Il• rf tom publication the Me.
.:..set:, Lead of the Rees n 1 of l'rlt:ew." of • thinner
.• •.. : M sue tit a st.mpe I teaspoon., I
• • .a. ' tT u with the eir•uni.tinm, and torah.
u:• lnurtion ef like Wetter.—l ere, Gentle.
streint,J. lont, solicitor of )nand Revenue.
•r. ' h- wit err to•ned the foils-in. reply :
• • . I has melted your intimation that
•: • meta in the kferreer. Mallff the Macias Reined
.• • . rime, he layluas taw Red is any bet • stamped news-
.•s I newly edema Urn wont inform me on what
•• . , la Med raw, reired Meryl". Magozine,
• Christie,. Mower, Peoples
• •• • sit: mei* menumied ;including unstamped copies af
• I . ••. ',rm. lie.; are vrmitted mitosis\ similar to-
•• .% rot wt.:: the amass of societie• • f • literary,
• or.ha. character an allotted to contain d lasts of their
• • ralistre, violet that pertilew Is Jewell to the journal ef
• •••• ion a Thasic•Per you roe your caoun, sad wlicltkig
• : •:. thee peiot.,—l ier.a.w, die, year obeiliest servant,
. : :

s • .r wrote k ono as f. diners
• senor. Notnewet-bonelab March, 18$1.
• so.rclog in ftC•tit t r a !otter 111 t bout signature,
t t awe hero th al tar of the Kfiffisser ; and OS ft IS
. once to ft in •.f the 7th instast, tressed to you, I
. ct :rota you. lb. publications to whine
tithe, we. either otheadly or otheralw; I know,
Islang at the r commits; but westslog thew to be us-
; ..;Ar., aad to eol.tain waiter which they not to
not for a.e to ads r any e twatien ationcr oidgeet,
e reasnatance jos cif,. in ethers. I wry,
tweak. aa I am aware that the subject has boon vender
rea te:A* risme particularly to keened socioties, that
stor" rs lasing to the transactions or oath gaieties, sad
,•1 puh'ac news awl intelligence, yet a- portable,
Jai t: of review, are not Waked upon sa, matters to be
•.1 %distant. 1 pulitseatione. no also, with regard to des-
: mance. shd each liae.—l sot, goatiesnen, your obedient
tea, sdietor at inland gevesas.

N.w. I iv knit it with all pcieritle respect to the house,
Ltr. Cr':'..fit g how norinollll are the penalties to which •
Use a .1 .b.e for any il,friagenent of this act, the mien of
to machines sad presses, and other dire calamities, we
C.abt t 3 have something more explicit, in the way of legal
hmition, than simply telliog a man that t e might write
Patentee that morel Savours of new., but that he must
t reiral.rly tr formally convey inttLigence to the public.
tilts,. titer.) I Lope that the noble lord, or some mem.
bar s! tau government, will tt.l us what is meant by this
c,f tails of the solicitor's. Because, remember that this is
a ;4011 itatute, sad a'l its pH:mi.:tens, and the reading of
1:•tou: . be perfectly clear and explicit. (Hear, hear.) To
tit.. a man that he may savour hie writing with intelligence
Eat not give It, is to leave hint in • position with reference
t• a pima statute, in which no British subject should for •
Caught be left. (lieu', hear) Here is some correspond.
Otte from another poison whom you have prosecuted et ,
Greenock, but who bar found a very novel and ingenious'
say of evading the Stamp office. His letter is dated March
WLLNIILAT, 1,111 Means, 1650.—Sir,—I sent per post
one seek periodicals enpper and cloth. The hewer was
.z.,Lodlilconstipienoe den Ezeb-quer preens; the letter is still
and No. 27 aria appear to.ausht. The preareetlee wee foe
t tin hat act Inv:ailing liberty atlas pram la it every
tv be • newspaper which contains " sews, emote, Intik
cenansaltim, or any remains or obemmitions thence, or
..Ly matter in church or state." on the proposel of this nes-
Mr • ivakley esuatied a [doper alarm to no purser, r the pubils
meant and lukewarm, and " the best possible public, tonne.
• •ia..tanaped prese, from interested =One, Ihmuralis io the
..:..e bull,"Catubers'a Journal," "High fineruntore7
• ',try, publication lem in elm than sheets dewy, or rod tar
• ,-• is Ukiah The law is randy mehreed, yet,
_became
new gave offence to • " little brief autharitrhers,
'".4,with a " greeting." he. and need for live sem-
•• ~co. In Jam.ary, 1,49, • second attempt was win to pet
•.,.re down ; but baying atoned this oppreriveaet, I observed
- wan not prescribed I might adopt it hutted of piper,
pens, stamp, awl nape the bonds, Sm. to which news.
,re liable. I therefore, in aonforisit with law, ore an bib-
: !..111,1`, tIp(DAIVI: Midi= for the • el knowledge; but
• will are the utility of (spooled the anomaly, that while
• over the kinruan, or queendca, .af.ly devoid, Or cot at
• tin law, I am compelied to respect It in an abeardlty.—l am,
•:. • obedient servant—Jon:. Lennon, printer, Dews agent, he.
had tiers It rs. (The right he.. member here proclaimed
tainted cloth newspaper.) I have another letter hers, in
IrkaCh he mentions that the fines have bees remitted, but still
to vmilvion of not puhliabiog on paper what others are every
day puhlabing around him without • atamp—aantely,
certain punt observations upon public events. Ha is not
"la greeted that permission to "Savour" with intern.
ronee which isgreeiously coneededtotbe Nanoidelieforner.
qiier,kosz.) I should =sheltie, that in harmony with his
Utered mciterial he has altered the name of his journal,
tod raw calls it the Grencek New Clout. (A laugh.) 1
then, teat it you era to moist that no man shall observe
'4l public intilligtuee, facts, or occurrences, without • stamp,
rot' et4ht to enforce your law univenal:y, because it is fatal
sag, when you only Mein out particular eases for
frueeation. (Hear, bear.) It involves you in a virtual
,eararship, and makes the Commissioners of Humps judges
t•I what the people should read, and what they should not.
An you prepared to establish such a censorship, presided
',Mr by the solicitor to the Stamp-office l If you
are ant prepared to • do Air, you must do one
of twit things—either repeal the stamp duty upon newspapers,
,t.teforee at fairly upon all. There is no reams' why, under
f.vourable cimimstartoes aad biz legislation, newspapers
Sh 'au; not be as cheap in this es ha say other countries. We
ro.itt have • penny weekly paper, and perhaps a penny daily
Paper, shit' still fur a higher class of aewspaper a higher
irto.d bull be paid; many of the peony publications
•••iod Leoome penny newspapers. (Hear, boar./
it,t it is rellahnll6lo to suppose that the working •
fue say obtain such an abridgment of the lead.
tg fart of the day at may be sufficient for him fur a'
nay, ahl that peany and even halfpenny publications of •
*holseozne nature may come into general circulation.
U. ass, teat.) I behave that cheap newspapen would
t hi se keit* advantage la diatomite( all these genes.
• Ai ri .pecting the factory population, and is giving
"Vin which the working men might form • just
'.i impartial ;oddment on their owa case. (Hear, hear.)
'-“oir, let me say one word with referee*, to the laws of the
bold it Le-unary that every man should be so.
"toted with the law, and you will not allow him he plead
"-WaLe, as an sums or: slime. Therefore, why provost
ns•l tea ti.r 'ugh the ...matey aremente of the proesediode
)•.ass tains of joietioe through the medium of cheap news.
•i,itt, are the only prestiesble means by which the
• lianli tan obtain s knowledge of the law. (Haar,
L it likely that a waling man would study Bleak-
.ate ..r f. ale's lastitutes i He cannot ; but accurate aCe

counts of the proesedinge M mom el junk* mid/ ghee
him the necessary ioformatioa. I say Out you an &m ad
to let him have ; at lest not to linnet hint be-
coming sequeinted with the laws which be Is ex.
poet. d to obey. (am) Aae we to infringe this great
principle for the sake el sem paltry 160,0001. revenue ?
(llear, hear.) On these grounds I met shall have es
favourable • ouskineaties for the aurepaper stamp as for
the duty on paper. My next resolatios i hardly feel at
liberty to sass upset, teems. the "object Is la the hands of
my huh hided the member far D meek'. who has paid
gnat ationeks to it. But I platted it es cue of the mobs-
*ions la my mike, bemuse I felt that it came under the
'easels sum of taxes um knowledge, sad that the motion
would be incomplete sales' it tiffs bacluded. It is a tax of
'Nut Megaality in its operation, and pressing with great
Waimea Go toe poor—making the poor servant laucyal:
lugs an anapest of advertisement duty on his sing
Mg • place se lie paid by the AM proprietor who wishes to
diem, of kis estate, both paying the same amount, eighteen-
poses. (Hear, hear.) I remember that Mr. Jams Milk
pot tin qualm very closely. He says that the rid fashion
was to advertise Inns through the public CHOI, sad he puts
• case. Suppose that when the publio oner was about to
mumble to the world the sale of a bankupt's stock, or
some important ***** la to. way of news, or to inquire
after some lost child claimed by • distracted mother,
the exciseman should be close at h's heels, and when
ho attempted to open his mouth, should stop him, sad iastet
upon eighteenmos as a nrceuary preliminary to each sa-
ammoniac liar it is a to upon speech, the only difference
Whig that by being pat on paper ther ana-unoment is give*
more correctly). But Mr. Mills goes on to say that the ex-
ciseman making sash • demand euuld be met with uaiversal
execration ; isdeed, he is not sure whether the people wenld
not in such a ease try physical tone as • means of getting
rid of hies Why, the advertisement duty is a =oscine',
tax upon cslamity. (liar, bear.) You cannot adver-
tise a subscription to a ragged school, or the of
feriae* of acme deserving individual, without paying
a lane fine to the state. People do not know when they
FM teen money towards the Exhibition of the Industry '
of all Natiocs, bow mina e.l tbst money roe to swell the I
revanuot of tbe state. I must add that this advertisement'.
duty is one that gives only a small amount of ,revenue—
about 160,0001. a year, and if you deduct what the state
itself pays for avertisereents it will be much smaller.
( Near, hear.) How absurd is it to see the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, who advertises in every piper in the kingdom,
calling the revenue 153 0001. He unlit to deduct all that
he Maisel( pays for the wow, moment advertisements. I
should have been glad to have limited for returns which have
been moved for on the subj. et, bet I did not like to
lose my chance of bringing the question forward. What
is this paltry sum of 160,0001. compared to the Injury
It must do to trade, to industry, arid to those in dis-
tress. (Hess, hear.) I could mention casts cf great
oppreoion, to show how this works in reference to
newspapers. I will take the ease of the Doily News.
That paper, anus time past, proposed to give • list of all
sales past and sales to come, just ss the papers give busting
appointments and law notices at present • this matter very
valuable and interesting to the public, and likely to be a
awful future in the paper. But what slid the Stamp-
. ffice ? You must cot insert this list of sales to come
without the payment of he. 6d. on each anal uncement, and
the paper was coosequently obliged ti discontinue a practc.
which appears to me to bays been quite as r. asonahl• and
as legitimate • piers of news as the hunting aopoiaments in
the ilornieg Post. Why is it nunnery to come down me
hardly os trade and knowledge ? (Hear, hear.) Why do
we sir glen out these two interests fur all our fecal
exactions. while we grant exemptions fur much less
aura purposes? (Hear, hear) I believe that the
expense of ',lmelda" in the United 8 atcs, se umpired
with this country, differs so much that I am almost afraid
to nuns the advantue wbieh the situ: ot of that country
has over us in point of eeocomy. The cost of • sioole
sivertisereent is, l believe, six or eaten times as much in
this country as in the United Stater; and I bates that
when you advertise by the year, that which would c st
2004 a year is the Tram, may be done for 61. or 71. in the
United States, and that too is papers of equal circulation ;
besides which, the advertiser gets a c voy of the piper. I do
not man to say that the analogy is strict, because the habits
of this country are different, and we e odd nut be expected to
conform to such a system immediately, although I
believe that ultimately the option wou:d he adopted.
But if there were a disposition to advertise to
generally, as it is done in the United States. all I say is that
yeur advertisement duty would be • fatal objection, snaking
that eat 2001. a year which in the United States could
be doze for eight or Moe pounds. My last resolu-
tion refers to a small, but art unimportaat matter, only
8,0001. or 9,0001. a year, but which en 0111.til to a very coo-
siderable pin vintage on foreign bode, inierted into this
country. It was mentioned before th• committee that it
formed • very important obstacle to the eupplei.g of
libraries with expensive work., and gave rise to much fraud
and irregulani y, and there:ore I met that I shall NITS the
consent of the house to its removal from the tariff It is
really a duty which ought to be removed, balsa so mall
that it is not worth collecting, while at the gems time it ob
eructs that free intereonimuniestioe is book* which should
subsist between civilised countries. I now submit my first re-
solution with reference to the paper duty, and I do earnestly
hope that it may mein the favourable coroideratMo of the
house. (Hew, hear.) My conviction Is, that if you do not
remove these taxes yes at grounds for suspec i .g that
your object is to Wader the spread of know:edge among the
great body Mike people, and that you are laying in • store
of great evil., which will fell on this country et some future
time, sad be a sot unfit ntribution for our present erroneous
piloy. (Loud dims.) The right hen. member concluded
by moving the first resolution.
Mr. COWAN, who was but indistinctly heard, rose to
sound the resolution. He was not ashamed to Bay before
the landed aristocracy, that he owed a l he poeseseed to that
manufacture to which his right hont friend bad referred in
the course of his speeds He was aware that that admission
might leesen the value of the etatemeots be was shout to
make, but hie only object was to obtain juice and to ben. ffit
the public at large. Perhaps the house would allow him to
explain the peculi.r restrictions which oppressed the manu•
facture of paper as dietinguishe d from other excisable pro-
ductions. In the first place, on all other exeseblo articles
the duty was levied at once, but the duty on paper was
levied by means of labels, which must be gelled to
every parcel whether 'Up Of 110111. Then it IVY lee Only
article which had to submit to 49 hours' delay after it was
put under the inspection of the stator. Twenty years ago
when the °mull .n of paper mokiog took than week, tit*
delay of the Excise was not felt to be • my serious drawback,
but subsequent improvements baying reduced the time re-
quired to tour boars, a further SA.I of forty eight became
• serious nutter, seeing that it might be sent from
Glasgow to London and back @gain in that time. (Hear,
hear.) It was generally admitted that attempts to secure
the duty by peculiar forms of construction of parcels or
stumps had failed from the facility that existed of pr.ducing
counterfeits. He bad a proof of this is &letter which he held
in his hand describing a fraud which had taken place in the
sister country. The writer assured him that he had made
the same wrappers serve seven successive leads of paper
which were prepared for exportation. (Hear, hear.) His
right hon. friend had mentioned moat of the grievances
of the paper makers, but there was still one point to
which he (Mr. Cowan) begged to call the attention of
agricultural gentlemen. He held in his hand a publica-
tion of the reign of George 111., printed one-half on straw
and one-half on wood, and he begged to assure hon.
gentlemen opposite that if it were nut for the restrictiens
paper might be manufactured from straw suitable for
many important purposes. But when he told them that
the raw material cost le. the cwt., while the duty was
14s. 9.1., they would cease to wonder at the small
promo that bad been made in the manufacture.
(Hear, btu.) If it were consistent with the
usages of the house he could chew specimens of p.per made
from straw and the various cereal production', which would
be sufficient to prove that the removal of restriction would
treats a new market for agricultural productions. The fast
was that straw was extensively used in other countries in
the manufacture of paper, and would be similarly used
here, were it not for the Excise restrictions.
On a recent excision, when he was accompanied by his
friend Mr. Crompton, evidesee was laid before the noble
lord at the heed of the government, elbowing the unjust
manner in which the excise m gulatioos operated against
those paper makers who employed water in the ananfacture,
as compared with those who did not. Bat the lips of the
noble lord appeared congealed In official e (hear,
and a laugh)—or if the deputation was answered at all,
it was much in the same way as an ancient people of whom
they read in the book of Exodus, MOM answered when they
complained of the weight of the burdens imposed upon them
by their Egyptian taskmasters—that was they were told
to go back to their burdens. From the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, all the satisfaction they
could get was that be could not afford to do
what was just and right, in msequence of the
state of the revenue. (Hear, hear.) Hs hoped the
roulatlon the house would come to that evening would
compel minister to take the matter into their serious
and favourable consideration, with the view of giving
the piper manufacturers, at no distant day, the relief
to which he contended they were entitled. He apolo-
gised for detaining the house. (Hear, hear.) He
had at all times been anxious to give her Haiesty's
government • full and generous support, and he thught he
might fairly tippet' to them to give their favourable con-
sideration to an spree], the object of which was to deliver •
most important and useful article of our home manufacture
from that bondage under which it had so loog laboured—
that incubus by which it was weighed down. (Cheers) Ile
cordially asecoded the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (who spoke
with his back to the gallery, and was consequently but very
iadistbsetly beard) ensured his bon. friend who had just sat
down that it was not from any unwillingness to give every
attention to the claims of the interest he represented, that he
had felt compelled to refute the applications which had been
made for the remission of the paper duty; bat for
the reason which had forced him to refuse many
simile" demands, vi.., the state of the finances of the
country. He hoped is right hon. friend would allow
him to stake use of such arguments as he might think
usceesary is mullets the motion, and amongst them his
right hon. friend would not find eat attempt to prove the
abstract merits of thew or any other taxes. He had stated
to the house some time ego the state of the dances of the
coustry, the surplus of income over expenditure, and how he
Muscled to apply that urplus in the removal of cm-
tUn taxes which be thought it desirable to remit
before dealing with others, and that proposal was not re-
eeived with any symptoms of dissatisfaction by the house.
The intentions of the government he had so announced it
wee their intention to carry out, and to that application of
the surplus they intended to adhere. (Heat.) With regard
to giving any pledge as to what the government might be
disposed to do in a future year, his duty, as Chancellor of
the Exchequer, was to keep a surplus of revenue oser ex-
penditure if possible, and until, the time came when suck

simplas .said be dealt with, ft would be moat unwise on his
pert is womb himself se to the amuse fa whisk it should
be applied. (Hear.) His Abe hen. Mond hid quoted the
opinion of the noise emembekons as to the miternion of the
duty ea paper, but his right has. friend would member
that that emmaire
lmiew expressed a mash stronger erasion as
he the propriety of taking the duty of bifida, sad bow meth
mew he (the Ck.aeellor of the Esasevier) might be da-
ps ed., if degenerateness permitted. Mt penniote Ike diss..mina-
Wm of knowledge sad the I.pweeeaeat of the naiad by the
removal of the paper duty, iblogit the health of the
people was a wiener of prior 'apprised*, sad that a tax
which operated to its periodic, had the steamer daises mom
their considerstioo. (Bear, hese) He only wished to say
farther that he th•light it prudent not to debar himself by
say argument against 111, or any other tax at present for
reiasidering the dais of all fairly when it might be win in
lie Chancel vane ft miebt be in tbe power of any arelor of the Exebequer —to effect any reduction In
the public burdens. It was not, th.refore his intention to
follow all the arguments of hie right" honourable
friend or to pledge himself in any way on the subject,
but he would contest himself with adverting to one or
two points which his right hot. Mend had brought forward.
His right hoe. friend had referred to what took piece is
the year 1842, when the right boo. baronet, not now in his
place (84 H. Peel), had the honour to propose, and the
fortune to carry, a sew tax whisk odaced some
tend
0,0001. a year. Be could not expect, alter the expert. '
miss be had had, dist the house world agree to any propo-
tido° for the invention of new tazeo—(bear, hear);—bat if
they were prepared to agree to a substitute is the steeps of a
direct tax, to the amount of 6,000,0001. • year, thou he
admitted it would be a proper time to consider the question
of all their tales. But eith regard to the excise duty on
paper, he must is, now, as he had stated to the several
deputations he had had the honour to receive on the sub-
ject, that he thought the complainte of un-
justglable interference on the ran of the Excise,
in the proems of mnufatture, were by no mesa
borne out. Every one of the recommendations mad*
by the excise commission fa regard to the mods
of levying these duties hap been minted out without
geali-
flcatien; and whoa last year he received a &pantos of
paper manufacturers to whom he gave the answer which his
hon. friend had stated was so discouraging, that answer
being that having no surplus at the time, he could net afford
to More the duty, be salad them if there was any Inter-
lessees In the excise remalatiose with the saaaufacture which
might be remedied with the view of giving greater free-
dom to the carrmag oa of the teed., he was asswered
that no improvement c laid be made in that illnetios ;
that the excise regulations did sot interfere with the
process of m nurse:are' and that nothing short of the re-
novel of the duty would be of say benefit. But what was
the complaint nowt That wheel the paper was tromp:stet,
made and ready to send out to the purchaser, it must oe left
fcr a certain time in order to be weighed by the excise offi.
etre. But the deputation made no complaint on this head,
their di mind being, nrt any alteration in the excise reign's-
hoes, but simply the abolition of the duty. His hoe. friend
further went on to oniplsin of the effect of the duty as an
impediment to publications ; but in his (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer's) opinion his hon. frier i bad considerably
overrated the extent of the impediment. He would instance
one work, " Coro menial Dictionary ;" that was
a book weighing dilbs , the selling price being 605., and
the whole duty was 41d. (Hear, hear.) That surely
Gould be no great impediment to the publication. (Hear.)
With regard to the duty on newsmen, he did not mean to
taw on this occa-ion, our had he at any time used, the ergs-
' meets which had been attributed to him by the right hon.
gentleman the member for Manchester (Mr. M. Gibson).
He had nevi r stated that he wished to continue that duty
in order to prevent the circulation of cheap newspaper.;
nothing was further from his intention. (Cheers.) Nor
had be ever boil or supposed thee the stamp duty was ue-
misery as a security against ; for, if parties were de-
termined to make a newspaper the vehicle of libel, he
did not see how the stamp duty could prevent
them. Tee riaht hon. gentleman had with much Ingenuity
referred to the difficulty of deciding what public Alone were
liable to the stamp anti what were lot, that was what could
atriely be regarded as news, but he had not heard of any
practical difficulty is this respect, or that any ineontrailenoe
bad beta experieneed. In one or two eases it appeared the
question had been raised, but generally no inconvenience
Lad been complained of from the state of the law is
t is respect, nor as far as he was aware of had
any dissatisfaction been expremed, and he was
therefore &pond to think that the difficulty
existed rather is the inissinaticn of the right hoer. gentleman
than is say practical tors. With regard to the propneition
itsel', he objected to it on the sense ground as he had objected
to the motion the other night for We reduction of the window
duty, vis., oa the ground of tae. He did not say the
time might not arrive when these duties, which cis right hoc.
fined had described as the taxes on knowledge, and the
amount of which he had accurately stated, might not be
repealed; but at present it was impossibo, with a
due regard to what was due to the public credit,
to sacrifice the amount of uu they produced ;
and, with regard to what might be done at any future time,
rolling could be more unwire to pledge thtms I:es in one
year as to what they 'Bigot do in another. (Heir.) He
objected to the toped of those duties now, on the ground of
revenue, and Val into, strongly did he o'ject to Frog any
promise is to what .l ht be dose hereafter. The amount
of the paper duty, which was as increasing duty—thus
showing that the excise r. gulsti- no did not iiit.rtere ion
riously with the pre.' •a of manuf-cture—emnunted last
year to 810,(001. In 1810 in was Lol,oool. ; in
1845, ViSsiout. ; is 1818, 7150001. ; and in 1819,
as he bad odd, 810,0001. The duty on newspapers
last year was 348,2001.; ma advertisements, 163,0001.;
sad on hicks, 7,30 W. The four duties together in the year
1849 amounted to 1,264,0006, and in 1849 to 1,329,0001. The
newspaper duty was an increasing daty, and that and the
advert. ta. vat duty together produced about half a mil-
lion. Now, he was not prepared to sacrifice 1.300,0001. of
a., and he hoped the house would forgive him for
Satin ? the earliest opportunity of saying in reference to the
several propositions for the rep .al of texts which had been made
lately, that which was made now and those which were to be
brought forward on a future occasion, that although he
hoped he was not more nervous than other Chancellors of
the Exchequer on subjects connected with the revenue of
the country, be could not lark without anxiety to the course
which the house seemed disp.sed to pursue (or at all events
• considerable portion of the house) on these questions.
(Hear, hear.) He proposed to give relief from taxation on
two items (in which proposition the bosses g eeeee lly had
concurred) to the extent of 7.k.0001., and to apply 250,0001.
to the rumbles of a most unprofitable annuity, known as
the annuity paid to the Equivalent Fund 80.lety, leaving
himself a margin apple able to the reduction of
600,0001. (Hear, hear.) Teat amount Le did not
think he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would
be justified and; r present circumstances in parting with.
Going through the question as to the deities which he pro-
posed to reduce—he had last night proposed to reduce the
mortgage duty still further, from 1 to 1 per cent. ; but the
hour', not satisfied with that, had voted a further reduction
which would entail an additional loss on the tie to the
extent of 100,0001., taking it at the very lowest estimate.
This would reduce the surplus to 400,0001. Now, suppose
that the house affirmed the present resolution, whicn in-
volved an amount of revenue of no less than 1,300,0001.
sort—

Mr. M.OIBSON—But you have not taken into account,
on the other side, the postage on the newspapers.
(Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought it
not worth while, in dealing with each questions, to dispute
about a few thoweands. He had given a large margin in the
amount he was stating, which ;would be quite inefficient
as regarded the general argument to the postage on
newspapers. But, taking the whole amourt, if the
proposition now t afore the house was carried, there
would be a deficiency in the revenue of about a
million, instead of a surplus of about 400,0001. And how-
ever anxious he might be for economy in the
public expenditure—and he did not yield to any
body in the desire to redoes that expenditure to the lowest
amount consistent with the efficacy of the public service—he
did not think any one could believe that any such reduction
could be made es would counterbalance such a defieiecey in
the . (Hear, hear.) Certainly until a eatiefactuy
substitute were proposed he should object to incur the risk
which such a merinos of revenue would involve.
There was another motion on the paper, in the
name of the honourable member lee Montrose, involving
another million and a half of taxation. That motion
was " to call the attention of the house to the return,
No. 146, of this session, of ' manufactured articles and agr.-
cultural produce ' imported in the year 1849, with the rates
and amount of customs duties levied thereon ; and to move
that this house, taking iato consideration the great extent
to which fret trade in agricultural produce and manure°.
tared articles has been carried, and the effects thereby pro-
duced, is of opinion that it would be jut that the remaining
manufactured articles now subjected to duties of customs,
and also the articles of food, should also be admitted free, so
as to place all interests in the country on an equal footing."
The produce of the several duties we. 1,638,0001. They
had before them to-night, therefore, propositiou to repeal
duties to the amount of 2,800,0001. Now, really, when mo-
tion% of this kind wi re made night after night—and whs.., on
• recent 0001111012, it MY proposed to repeal a duty involving
1,280,0001 of r , and which was sued only by • very
narrow majority, and a motion of this kind wee made again
to-might, it was sufficient to excite serious anxiety as to what
might be the result of • vote of this nature, given probably
without due consideration of what the consequence might
be on the character and credit of the country. (Hear).
These were the grounds on which he resisted this motion. It
would be not only unwise, bat most discreditable to the
character and credit of the country on the one hand, if,
without first providing • substitute, they were to vote away
1,300,0001. of revenue; and on the other it would be equally
nowise if by their vote they were now to pledge themselves
as to what taxes should be dealt with in any future session
of parliament. (Hear, hear.) For himself he could
scarcely sufficiently :puns the very strong feeling
whkh he entertained on the subject, for he con-
sidered it would be an act of political suicide to put an end
to that position of credit in which the public finances were at
the present moment. With regard to the details he would
not enter upon them, for he did not think it blooming
a representative assembly to cavil about questions of • few
thousands more or lees on • question which must he decided
on prineide It was sufficient for him that he looked upon
the proposition as one which, if successful, must, in the pre-
sent circumstances of the fiaances, tend to impair the credit
of the country, and therefore, taking it as a whole, he must
offer to it his most determined opposition. (Hear.)
Mr. HUME thought the right hon. gentleman had net
fairly met the question. For himself, he had never heard
any reference made to the doctrine of repudiation without
protesting against it. lie could aware the right hen. gen-
tleman that he entertained es warm a desire to main-
tain the public credit as himself, being convinced that any
attempt to interfere with it would be attended with the

most aerMus results. Bat the premises en which the right
hon, gentleman had asked the house not to agree to this
resolution wore not correct. The right hon. gentleman had
truly said that there wee a general concernment on the past
of the house when he proposed the mode in dealing with I
the surplus. That was la rupee* to some of his proposi-
tions. He (Mr. Hume) sessidered she repeal of Ile brick
duty • peoper redoetion, bat he objeeted to applying any
pan of the surplus in redwing the national debt while such
taus se the waidew tau and the taus whisk were referred to
in the present motion remained. (Heir, hear.) It wu,
besides, absurd to talk of aoplyieg such a
at surplus to the re-
Michele eta debt of 980,000,00 W., end that &Me when the
publie were callieg for relief from the.. burdens which
pressed heavily upon them. The right Me. gentleman had
not fairly stated the position of the flosairea. He had stated
that during the tone years end • half he had been in office
he had had to goateed against the famine in Ireland, com-
mercial distress in this country, and the sontisental troubles,
end that these were cause beyond the control of govern.
meat, which luetproduced a deficiency in the three prevlms
years. But he (Mr. Hometoontandsel that that deficiency
was the fault of the government, who had gone on Melee.-
Mg the expenditure by adding to the public establishments
while the revenue remained the ease. It was the extra-
' vogues of the goverment which had led to the deficiency.
Now, the motion of the right hon. amber foe Manchester
went merely to the awe of withdrawing the advertisement
duty sad the duty on paper, sad certainly the speech of that
right hen. gentleman wee most able and examcing. (Hear,
hear.) He (Mr. Home) gam say that often se he had '
heard the gawks of taw on knowledge discussed In that
house, he had aeur heard so convincing • speech in favour'
of the repeal of those taxes as he had now listened to, and
he hoped that that speech would be duly weighed by the
country. He considered the speech of great importance at
the present time, biomes the government were expending
large mums of public money—money which might be ren-
dered applicable to the promotion of instruction and educa-
tion, but which was rendered inspolicablo to that or any
other useful purpose, so long an taxes were increased.
He believed that the paper manufacture would be
ea* of the most important branches of trade In this
country, if the shackles by which It was crippled were
removed. He believed that if they gave freedom to the
capital and enterprise embarked in it, we should kale. paper
manufaetured by England for the supply of the whole world,
for nowhere was that article so well or so cheaply
made as in this sematey. No lees than halt • iodises
a year was paid fog old rags to asks paper. Bat
the manufacture was now confined to our own country,
whores., if we were allowed to do that which ether coun-
tries did, we might, by a proper admixture of the materials
(*smelly used with the improved materials now used, pre-
pare • manufacture see excelient and so cheap that it would
command a aide in other parts of the world. (Hear, hear.)
It ought to be known that awl branches of our trade would
he ounsiderably relieved by the removal of the paper duty.
The ironmongery trade, for instance, was one of these. The
very paper wrappings of articles of ironmongery
amounts to 6 and 7 per cent. upon the valise of
the articles themselves. One manufacturer from Bir-
mingham stated that no less then tin per cent. of
the value of his articles would be redwood by the
repeal of the paper duty. There were soisson,
he said, made for a haltpsni.y a-piece, and, when they were
put up in dozens in double paper, the cost cel the paper almost
exceeded the value of the article. Of what immense value,
then, would the removal of the paper deity be to manufac-
turers*, that description. (Hear, hear.) He believed the
loss anticipatedby the Chancellor of the Exchequer from
the removal of We duty would not be realised, and that the
elasticity which would be given to various trades by its
removal would compensate in • great degree for a portion of
the kw which might be austsked. (Hear, hear.l
Was it not fit and proper to take away those impedi-
menta which interfered with the comforts and profits
of the people ? Let the government renounce their large
military establishmente, and let the expense attendant on
thee* establishments be saved, and then ample means would
be found for repealing the window tax and the taxes on
knowledge. (Cheers.) Allusion had bees made, in thie
course of the debate, to the motion of which he (Mr. Hume)
had given notice for that night, for the removal of the re-
maining import duties. But the answer upon that point
was very Pimple. The house had adopted the principle of
free trade. The agriculturists of this country had been ex-
med to competi ion from the whole world, and they had
been saying that ii they were to have fre • trade it ought to
be carried out In everything. He (Mr. Hume) had
moved for a return to oh .ev toe exe ptions
from that principle. The great art was to move for a return,
in order that hon. gentlemen might see effects placed before
them in pounds, shillings, and pence. We had not free
trade at prime We were only ci frying on a fettered
trade. But Ist his 'siege* ens be adopted, and we should,
indeed, enjoy free trade, and every interest would flourish.
He should cordially support the motion, anxious as be always
was to support the ereoit of country, to diminish useless ex-
penditure, end to limit burdensome taxation. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. EWAItT acid he was anxious to correct an (lures-
tion which had fallen Sr 'm the Chancelior of the En-
chtquer relative to the speech of the right hen. mem.
her for Manchester. The latter right hon. gentleman
had laid down two preliminaries. Ono was the
'central rule that our lint object ought to be
to enlighten and instruct the rople; and the second was,
that, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer had a surplus, the
stamp duty and the advertisement duty ought to be removed.
The right hon. gentleman bad not pledged himself to remove
1,300,0001., as the Chancellor or the Exchequer seemed to
think, but he sertsiely would relieve taxes to the amount of
300,0001. (Hear.) Now, it the melt of property in this
country desired to secure the affections of the people, they
would submit to • greater degree than at present to • direct
system of taxation. No one would be so utopian as to
propose that there should be a total change of
system effected, but by submitting to an increased
tax on property there was no doubt that moth
general good would be produced. Toe extension of
labour, and the removal of taxes on imports, were the means
by which the future policy of this ceunity ought to be sup.
ported. He thought it would have been wise had the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer made en approximation towards the
reduction of the taxes on knowledge—tor instance, if he had
abolished the 150,0001 advertisement duty. But, as it was,
I the repeal of the »bele of the tones on knowledge would now
be sought for, and the time wee fast epproacheng when the
paper duty, the advertisement duty, aid the duty on books
mud be abolished. (Hear, hear.) An American witness,
' who had been examined before the committee last year, said
I that the first thing which struck him on arriving in this
country was the small nuabr of readers that were to be
Mend ; and he observed that in America everybody at-
' tempted to read, because there were no taxes on knowledge
ire that country. (Hear.) In Halifax, Nova Scotia, the cir-
culation of newspapers wee infinitely greater than in Eng-
' land, to consequence of there being no taxes on paper or
advertisements. He did not believe,!from all ha had observed,
that any great evil was likely to arise from unstamped
papers. The writings, for instance, in C'hambers', Journal,
Eliza Cook's Journal, and Lloyd's papers, reflected honour
on those who penned them, and on the taste of thou who
read them. The house would recollect the 'salient effect
produced by the repeal of the duty on gimmicks. When
fret he entered that house there was a duty of Is. 4d. on
almanacks, and at that period they were despicable publica-
tions, abounding in fanciful prognostications as to future
events. Lord Althorp took off that duty, which
amounted to 27,0031. a year, and immediately an improve-
ment was observable in them, which had gone on
until now they had become admirable Booms of information.
He supported the motion moot cordially, because he wished
to see the press emancip ted from the fetters by which it
was enchained ; and he entertained a sanguine hope that,
though the nuns of the motion might be retarded for one
year, or for two, it could not be delayed for many years.
(Hear, hear )
Mr. AGLIONBY felt himself obliged to vote against the
resolutions, and could not help asking himself what practical
advantage would arise to Mr. Gibson or his supporters from
dividing on the present question. He was as strongly pledged
as the right hon. mover himself to the repeal of all taxes on
knowledge, but the effect of • division, which would place
Mr. Gibson in a minority, would only injure their cause, as
many who wished well to it would be obliged, under present
eiremstaaces, to vote against it, and it they obtained a
majority it would only damage the government. (Mr. Gib-
son slyly suggested that it would strengthen them, en ob-
servation which produced much laeghter.)
Colonel THOMSON ha nourously observed that the house
could not eat its cake and have it, and his hon. friends neer
him having last night resolved to relieve the rich from the I
small taxes upon bonds and mortgages, had now debated
themselves from relieving the poor from the taxes upon
knowledge and intellectual improvement. He suggested
that they should observe more of policy and consideration in
their Muni treatment of the government.
Mr. ROEBUCK reminded the hones that there were
millions in the matey whoa It was their duty to instruct
and to raise in the social scale, and who, if left in ignorance,
would become fearful elements of misotief and destruction
to the body politic. Ile appealed to the noble lord and to
hon. members opposite, to take advantage of their present
position and conciliate** maser, ere it became too late.
As for the gentlemen on his (the opposition side), they were
• century behind the times. They got up • pretence of a
return to protection : let them only attempt it, and the
people would put their heel on them and crush them. He
called upon Lord J. Russell not to allow any narrow or
selfish considerations, or any petty question of a few thou-
sands of pounds, to interfere with the first proposition of
Mr. Gibson,

Lord J. RUSSELL said—The hon. acd learned gentleman
loess to think that I am of a contracted mind. I cannot help
that. It may be that I do not rise to the height of the
bon. and learned gentleman's magnanimous con-
ceptions. I trust, however, that I am not an
enemy to the progress of knowledge, or to •
diminution of the taxes on knowledge when they can be
made. But on this occasion we Save the ruperior duty to
perform of seeing that the general credit of the country is
not shaken. (Hear, hear.) My right hon. friend has said
that different hon. gentlemen have token different views.
The hon. member for Montrose maintains he is consistent in
his demand, because • great reduction eon be made in our
naval and military estimates. But the great majority of the
house had already voted thous estimates, or the greater part,
considering that It would be dangerous to have this
country defenceless under present eleeumatanees. It is
Impossible, therefore, to effect in this respect a reduction
equal to the amount deminded by hie motion. Hon.
gnatiemen opposite say there is no curb evil after an in
diminishing you Moose as compared with your expenditure,
as you can easily notify it by restoring the import duties.
But the great majority of the house reject that polley, be-
lieving that it would be returning to a vicious system already
abandoned. The result would be that the house would
neither agree in snob redactions as would bring the expendi.
to down to the income, nor to those propositions
which have been made for raising the dimi-
minished income to a level wit► the expenditure.
And dm generally the house would dad itself la • financial

condition which would be discreditable to them at the present
moment, where there is no difficulty before them with regard
to the Banda situation in which you stand. With regard
to these particular taxes, lam not disposed to say much. I
admit, with the hon. gentleman for Edinburgh, who
emended this mail ye, that when gentlemen come
to me as • deputation, to state their reams
nada • particular tax, my lips are m he
termed it, ettagealed on the 'atject, and I do not think
proper to express the aareement teat I may often have in
the objections taken. Because it really is the case that there
is hardly any deputation, a deputation for the abolition of
the customs' duty on tea, • deputation for the abolition of
the soap tan • deputation for the repeal of the tax
epos advenfeiments, t.r a deputation for the repeal of the
tax upon seindewa—el iett has not admirable remota to show
that that particular tax is injurious at the inter, eta of the
country. I cannot weli argue wits th•m. But if, on the
other bend, I were to s .y that I signed with them, I should
heat very soon that it was a breach of faith that I did not
come town to the house sad propose an abolition
of those taxes. Taking many years back I do not
think the government, with which I have been con-
nected have shown any indifference to the taxes now be-
fore the consideration of the house. At the same time,
while I say that my right lion friend matte a very able
speech, I must say that there is great exagger.tion in eke
beaelhe stated to be derived from the abolititat of Una taxes.
The very phrase itself, "taxes on knowledge," is an MOW
iteration. Why, we have heard my hon. friend the mem-
ber for Montrose say that a great part of the evil emplaiaed
of is that it increases the cost of goods packed up in paper.
The preventing of that would not increase knowledge cer-
tainly. Then, agile, with regard to many of the news-
phpen, I thck it very desirable that the paths in genera
should have political intelligence, and when they ate able
to buy the newspapers I think It is very fit that all the
political concerns of this great country should be known.
At the same time, I thick there is much of the
MIAMI' contained in newspspen that is hardly to he
dignified by the name of knowledge. Again, my
right hon. friend showed what was the mischief of the
usemaped prat, and he read some articles from what I
suppose were unstamped papers, but they really teemed to
me to be like some of the articles of the stamped papers.
(Ltughter.)And with regard to the large papers
—the Taw and other papers which are charged 6d.,
the swap being Id.—the reason the charge is so
high in, that they pat themselves to an immense expellee to
wiled information. One gentleman connected with news-
papers told me that the foreign expresses from Paris alone
cost 600 i. a year, and the anxiety to save this early informa-
tion is the Gana of the high price of these papers, and not the
penny stamp. ' It is not, therefore, that I consider these
stamps are dearabl, to be maintained, it is only that I must
decline entering into a pledge that these are to be the taxes
that are to be abolished ; and, above all, the taxes that are to
be abolished before any other taxes. Tee hon. member for
Montrose spoke against this tax, but when he speaks of the
window tax and the soap tax, he says, Your sanitary
measures are useless unties you abolish them taxes; " and I
must say that they interters a great deal with the
health and the etamforte of the people; and these
are very strong objections, and as strong, at
Met, as can be urged against thous taxes en knowledge.
Bat then the hon. and learned gentleman tells us that with
our contracted minds we shall fall into great dangers, and
that the rate of Fiance is before us to show us the perils we
are likely to enconoter. Why the 'at state of France is

present..
nee owing to any 'lousiest price of newspaper-, nor to any
want of general Estruction among the people. I am told
that for a hallptuay you may obtain a newspaper in
Paris full of the most ingenious sophisms, and the
cleverest writing, with all the intelligence of the
day ; and that schoolmasters are spread throughout
France. But, untortenauly, tees/ newspapers con-
tent attacks, not only against the government of the
day, bat against all government. They are newspapers
that endeavour to make government impossible, and their
schoolmasters are schoolmasters who endeavour to make
religion odious. (Cheers.) Then, sir, I soy, that it you
have cheap newspapers, which endeavour to make govern-
ment ampoule'', and it you have imbue:masters who endea-
vour to snake religion odious, I can more easily ex-
plain the state at France than I can wish ior an
imitation of the servo stets of things here. (Cheer) I el,
not relieve with r,e hon. ani learned gentleman twat the
people of this country w.ra but la.: ly admitted to any ikore
of power in this mollify. Th y arc p ogle who have been
long accustomed to political Mscu.si a; they are a peqle
who have been long accustomed is know and taste part in
the political events of this cou.try. Tr a men of England
are men who have bun proud of the victories of
England. They are men who have been proud
of the intelligence of the people of England ;
they ars men who love the religion of their c entry, and
having these feelings they have watched with anxiety,
they have watched with care every to-n of events
in their country; and while they have followed some
ministers and some chat, with admiration and with en-
thusiasm, they have been as ready to condemn others
for their incompetency and their unfitness. Now, sir, the hon.
and learned gentleman tells me that I cue for nothing,
and that those who are my colleagues care for nothing
but holding on to place. Why, it is but a few
days ago that I was reproached by the bon. gentleman
with respect to the slave trade, that I was wantonly causing
a great public mischief by declaring teat I was unwilling to
retain office unless my opinions on that question were as-
seined to by the house. I am ready to submit to other
imputations, feeling confident that I am not guilty in either
respect. (Cheers.) So lung as we can maintain the princi-
ples on which we think the greatness of England has been
sounded—so long as we can maintain this country in the
possession of those great benefits which she has the
happiness to enjoy—so long as we can keep her in the
pursuit of that path whisk has been placed by Providence
for her course, so long it will be a matter of pri..e to us to be
the foremost advisers of our Sovereign. It it should please
this house to take • course which we should disagree with,
which we ehould think humiliating or disgracesal to the
country to which we belong, then our names must be severed
from the possession of power, and we could only lament
that the house had taken • c .urea which we thought unfor-
tunate. I must ask the house to reject the motion
of the right hon. gentleman. I do so with all respect to
him. I do so agreeing with many of the statements
which he has made with respect to the objections taken to
these particular taxes, but I say this is not an occasion,
and this is not a time, when the House of Commons can
rigidly repeal taxes which are necessary for the support of
your public obligations and for the support of
those estal,lishments which you yourselves have deemed
essential to sour defence. If that be the case, then I ask the
house to CJIIICur with me in the rejection of this motion. I
ask them to show to the country that you are determined to
maintain that credit which is worthy of the people you re-
present. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. DISKAELI said they were called upon virtually
to repeal an excise duty perhaps of 710,0001. Now,
he could not view this question as totally uncon-
nected with the financial exposition, this year, of the
government, to which, indeed, the noble lord himself had
referred. He was not himself, from accidental circumstances,
present when that exposition was made, but it was en im-
mortal subject ; it was still alive • last night, even, its details
were under consideration, and the step which to.n'ght they
should take was entirely connected with that financial state-
meet of the government. Now, he held it as • ge-
neral rule that the financial minister, in dealing
with the happy accident of • surplus, should re-
lieve any suffering interest in the country. (Hear, bear.)
And if the country were in that happy state that there was
ao interest of importance in great distress and suffering,
his next duty was to relieve all interests, by devoting the
surplus to the reduction of the public debt, and so effect-
keg a reduction of the general taxation of the country.
These were the two principles that should influence a
sinister of finance dealing with a surplus revenue. Now
when it was announced that there was a surplus, believing
Massif that there was an interest in this country, wad
the most important iuterest, not only suffering, but greatly
suffering, and its sufferings being ri coenised not merely by
those who represented it, but by the government themselves,
and generally by all parties in that house, he brought for-
ward a proposition, the object of which was to devote that
surplus, to remedy that suffering. What was the conouct
of the government under those circumdances ? They opposed
the proposition, notwithstanding that they acknowledged
that that interest was suffering. He failed in the object which
he then attempted to effect, certainly under circumstances
which brought to him and thou who supported him no mor-
tification. Well, what was the cordoct of the government
after that ? Were they influenced by that which he con-
calved to be the second consideration which should influence
• minister in dealing with a surplus ? Did they devote that
surplus to the reduction of the public debt, and consequently
to the reduction or the burdens that pressed upon all classes ?
They did not, but they made a propositi no which he thought
he was now justified in saying was most unsatisfactory
to the country. They proposed the repeal of the excise upon
bricks, a propteition which he did not unfortunately hear at
the time it was made, or he should have offered his protest
against it. But he could say and with truth, that it was a
proposition that was received 'bry those whom it was stated it
would relieve with utter develop. Government by that
means reduced the announced surplus from • million and a
half to • million. They proposed also a second
measure, announced also as a relief to the suss
intend, upon which he need not dilate, because its prin-
cipal characteristics and peculiar merits were familiar to
those whom he addressed • and because that hones at the
present moment resounded with the cheers which last night
hailed the detest of part of that proposition. At that mo-
ment government wee practically ia the possession of •
surplus of a million sterling, and they were asked to
trios that the only idea they had in relieving taxation on
eaxpainsoeperliauttye aka papier.of(litheelit.)sre leunitirjuelythobejeacreldittoionthoef dot
that side of the house was to relieve the classes with whom
they were immediately connected, and that they had no
thought for others. Tbe question of relief from taxation
was a pnetal and • national question ; and if at any doe on
that side of the house, at least as far as he was concerned,
any proposition for relief from taxation had been
brought leeward ostensibly for the relief of one
class, it had been because that clam had been
universally coed...sod to be not only the most suffering class,
but the only suffering clam. Well, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer having declined to be influenced in the present
Butanes in the dealing with the surplus revenue—having
destined to be intlueaced by either of those considerations
which bethought in the management of a surplus revenue
ought to direct the conduct of an administration, he found
himself in this position—that as Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, with a surplus revenue at that moment which considers
ably exceeded the amount of the proposition before the
house, he was to consider whether, on the whole, it was mat
for the advantage of the country that the excise duty
on paper should be repealed or that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer should be in the possession of funds
for the dearest use of which he had no security
wiukt•Yer. They sight have two opinions upon

the effect of the advertisemint duty; then might
be two opinions on the eff..ct of tn.i stamp duty ow
newspapers, bat, not having arrived at that molts ion, he
i declined now to 'term an opinion on It ; hut no evil was
abstractedly ;rester than au excise auty ; ar.d th 4t the ab-
street evils of en excise duty were aggravated in an instance in which to tee material injury mural injury was added.
was a position which no one would contest. (Hear, hear.)
Without enlarging on these interesting details, he might
remind the Louis that while " taxse spun knowledge was sneered at as • fantastical expression by ti a First Minister,
Mr. Chambers nave up his publication of 80,010 a week of
one of the moat iutructive, moat rational publica-
tions that ever appeared—one more calculated to sup-
port good government and pubic ustrality than any
that ever existed; that he was beat nut of the
market by a publication is Holywell-street, which,
from the much cheaper for.n in which it appeared—
& form that did net suit the poblilstion of Mr. Cesaibr•rs—
Clall d the town bef,re it. and t.. t • pub:ics i dedicated
to the most indoor of and blaspheu,i,ii purpuien. (Hear,
bear.) The CaL...c.ller of the Exchequer he vii. g iieslined to
relieve that ins rest whose sufferings they had attempted to
relit ye, and not having offered them the altornetive of re-
du dreg en a coralderable scale the general taxation of the
country, could they do better, with the reiourees at their
onntmand, than assent to the first proposition of tha member
for btanchaster f (Hear, hear) In his opinion it would be
a prudent, • politic, end • beneficial =otitis to *meat to.
The house then divided,
For the moon B9
Against it l9O-101
The second aid third resolutions referring to the stamp
duties on newepspers and advertisements were then severally
put and negatived without a division.
Oe the fourth resolution for repealing the customs duty
on foreign books,
- -

Mr. ROEBUCK said he could not a'low that resolution
to be negatived without raising his voice in its favour. He
would akk why, in the interest of learning, of knowledge,
aad of religion, they did not allow foreign books to come in
without pay log any defy? (Heat.) Why should we not
be allowed to learn from the authors of }ranee, Germany.
and America, all that they could teach us? This duty
created in many eases a prohibition, without any real ad-
vantage to the revenue. (Hear.)
Mr. HUME referred to the works issuing from the Cal-
cutta press, many of which he said would be of great value
to this cluntry, but they were actually prohibited by the
duty. It would only be carrying out the principle of free
trade to emit this duty. It did not produce more than
8,0001. to the ue, aad it was in the nature of a barrier
against instruction

Mr. GOULBURN said the import duty on foreign bcoka
was little more than equivalent to the excise duty on paper
paid on British books in this country.
Mr. HUME asked if the existence of en excise duty on
piper here was any reason for excluding foreign bmks trom
this country.
The mutton was then put and negatived.
INVESTMENTS FOR SAVINGS.
Mr. BLANEY moved for a select e,mmi t, a so suggest
means for mciliteiting the Rafe invectmert of t! eir savings
by the workirl classes of the country. The accumulation
of capital by the bicker climes war estimated at he) millinne
yearly, a rum which he thought would be doubl el if the
industrious part of the popubsion were ene 'waged to
economy, and placed within reach e.f safe and profitable
investment. To c Etc this object, the hon. member pro-
posed that the law of mercantile assecietions should be
altered, so as to en ,ble a body of small c ipitalists to unite in
carryieg out enterprises of a remucerative character in
bundler, commerce, er err:culture.
Mr. LAI3OI:CIiEttE c.nsented to the rippoirement of
the select committee, b.:lieving that the inquiries it would
undertake might prove highly ttieful. Tne subject was,
bowie( r, surrounded with many difficulties, especially as
regarded any chances in the law of parinerihip, :hich bad
undergone very considerable s zeminsti al, and remained
still a question of great perplexity. It scar au c xcesdingly
delicate matter ea t 3 limit or diatribute the am'ant of re-
sponsibility among co-shareholders in a conanwvial enter-
prise, se to cheek the spirit of gambling and a. cure the cre-
ditors of the asermiation, while peotaring the ill'Arers of the
ineividual patti..rs.

A!u•r a tow K.-ads from Mr. P. Rowasa, the mceim was
agreed to.

APPOINTMENTS IN INDIA.
Mr. &IDLE'S mead t.r rime returns of t:e ernes and
salaries or Erit:sh empforda hi meths, sine• ti.e year 1832,
Mr the paip els, is app-ared, of aldewitig tiled memberof the
Irish bar had not enjoyed their kir share of patroLage in the
distribution • f Indian appointments.
Sr J. BOEHM:SE :etlined to order the proposed re-
turns, which comprised a miscellaneous aisurtineot of ap-
pointment', and for which the sole reason adduced bad
been come statements of the neglect of re slag Irish bar-
risters Le the Indian bench. As to the general accusation of
making i .viii tat national dis•inctions in the apaartionment
of patr.r.itz., in the Est:, he met it by a direct denial.
M KEOGH eon.i l rid that the members if the Irish
bar had just cause to complain of the xeglieJt they had
experienced. _

Atur a le w words from Mr. C. ANSTET Ha Mr. LawtAne,
The . owe divide:—
For the motion 23
Ag►inst it
The house Len adjourned at hait•psst 12 o'clock.