The Express.
London, England, 1850-06-26 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JUNE 26, 1850.

Ripen did not altogether avoid. (Hear. hear.) Bat I Wait
I may apply to it the words of a great antherity, that se
outlines however Mumble, eaa
ittsaflae.
.11(inettetie..1
sooty, withered detente I
1•011 i 481.""acta sato 4•1164°°
ogellie menu s is se t flit' se to WAY =lt
has ea noel arida sadtt as aa
he is sethe his . I wale house
de
ts kw, bed WO, halt itself or g wlisTefefe this la-
vetereeiviet ea ad h ligg• wa the Se.
=kr Forsiga Affeirs7Wlreer, .) Have they not
et that it le because Is Identified on the
continua sr with nopoasible tieruatent and the
Meanie cog egilaions 1 (Meer, hear " and cheers)
I IMP tale isgenneesell to sat that the noble lard in-
Nemo/ aig swear ef despitisse—had he been praised
llefierelelt or tribe Zemke thleisier—bed he fete
the Isfeees of their seljede-41eed.axis. of "hear, bovi—
ne/ bib gives Up carte= if thdilli-elelsed rat jette to an ift.
aidiainill death through theeleiney elf
ell their letters opened in
MisoMeatey—(hear)—had be dens this, the acts which
are ewer as maligned, would have been the theme of praise
from **whets band of his calumniators. (Loud churn.)
The whim lead hes see dime se, bat the aellis lord has been
=
a a gnat eta= Uwe are aliltlets In the in-
as sable ember fee IliteG. and I'll
sell the aoellheS lord and the hese whet they we. The noble
lord always advocated sod seppesisil seaselbationsl govern-
ment in Spain. The noble kid wag gulky el sympatbising
with Italian liberty. The MY, lord illuented from Russian
"indispensable" iaterforeses la Hangaile The noble lord
recognised the republic of Noes. (fused cheers.) These
are grave charges in the eyes of these who would mike
Rayons a hero, and Nicholas a demised. (Hear, hear.)
The mere queetion of Greece is a paltry preteace. It
is in Oran that the northern Aroblesedes wishes to rest his
lever by mesas of which he hopes to push back prosperity
and liberty in the western world. To this end the noble
lord is to be seerificed ; tat if he is to be sacrificed, I believe
that you will light a flute in this country which will take
all the plausibility of the right bon. lumber for Taraworth,
with the able assistance of the member for Ripon, to prevent
its having dangerous effects. I have said that Greece is
• pretext, and I solemnly believe that a wide-
spread conspiracy has been organised to ruin the
noble lord (hear, hear) a conspiracy in which
ere-Kings and es:ministers, Kings without crowns and
ministers without places, have joined with ministers with
*am, bat, I had alma said, without characters. (Cheers )
This coaspiney has its ramifications in various quarter, not
only in the saloons of Paris, but in the boudoirs of London.
Nor is what is technically called another place quite free
from these influnces. Of what use is it to make a seines=
gallery for foreign diplomatists when their sentiments are
expounded under English exteriors ? (Hear, hear.) When
we bear men who have been ministers, and expect to be so
again, explain the eights of Englishmen as they have done,
of what age setting • gallery apart for foreign diplomatists ?
Why, they are an the floor of that house. (Loud cheers.)
I sok you will you permit the noble lord to too put down by
such means, by letters from " our own correspondent "
(hear, hear)—wbo, in company with Russian and
Preach agents, hes been decorated—l should have
mid degraded—(Rev, hear)—with the Greek order'
of our Saviour for his services in writing letters to the Tines?
(A voice—" Who is be?" " Order.") 11, has been so de-
, aerated, but I am delighted to hear that old Genera! Church
' bas declared that he never will wear his decoration again in
consequence of such degradation. (Loud cheers.) I rup-
ee*" he considers now that, instead of the order of our
Saviour, it should be called the order of Judas Iscariot.
(Chun and laughter.) I think that any man who has put
his hand to such letters, betraying the interests of his own
country, and humbling England in the eight of
the world, is unworthy of either respect or heelball'.
(Leud cheers.) But I would have the house to refl•et on
the coasequence of the vote they are about to give. (lieu,
hear.) Before the consequence of that vote the Greek ques.
tion sinks into utter insignificance. It is not that we are
about to vote confidence in the ministry, or in the character
of our Minister for Foreign Affoir s • in my opinion we have
far greater subjects to consider. We have heard nothing of
the commerce of the country. (Hear, heir.) I say nothing
about what may be deemed • mere rhetorical claptrap, the
honour of our flag, but I would have hon. gentlemen to re
fleet before they vote a reversal of our foreign policy.
We who have ships in every sea, and merchants at
stray port, what will be their situation, if you vote a rever-
sal of that pokey which has hitherto upheld them? (Hear,
hear.) li.verse the foreign policy of this country, end your
commerce is crippled, and, as I conscientionely believe, the
progress of civilisation retarded. (Hear' hear.) There is not
a petty despot who will not peep from his hole and rejoice,
not in the humiliation of the noble lord, but in the humilia-
tion of Great Britain. (Cheer) And I would address hos
usenet= who represent ono real party in this country,
and warn them of the conseque.oces of their vote. Of course
they will vote against the noble lord, bat let them contem-
plate the consequences of their vote. (Hear, hear.)
Have they forgotten how they were treated before ? Are
they desirous that—
For itoneuo's Wile we should ell our need—
For time the itTOCIOOP moue be deetroy ed.
They may rest sad-fled that the country is net yet ripe f it
them. But I say for one that I would sooner see that party
in power than that of the right hon. baronet. I know what
their measures are, but I cannot trust or confide in the party
headed by the right hoe. member for Tamwortb. (Hear.)
I can trust to no party who, having supported the govern-
ment four years, turn round upon them in the fifth, when
they think that government is in the agonies of death, in the
hope of mounting to fame, perchance to plane on their dead
b dies. For my owe part I have criticised, at the proper see
fiod, the policy of the noble lord (Pelmerston). With regard
to Portugal in 1847, I thought the noble lord wrong in that
policy at the time, and think so still—but I will give no tuli-
ps= fellowship to this motion. I cannot stop to cringe= an
unguarded or imprudent word here or there, when I see
the interest of England at stoke —(hear, heir)—and, Sir,
I shall, therefore, support the motion of the hen. and
!earned member for Sheffield with pride and pleasure.
(Much cheering.)
Lord J. DIANNERS 'contrasted the sensitivenen of the
ministry to British wrongs in Greece, with their duellists
nest to resist the plunder and ill-treatment ef English work.
men on the railroads by the French republicans. He be-
lieved the the Pahnerstocian policy, by alienating other
countries from Eogland, was more cslrulatei to iovi:e this
repel the dossituu.cy of Russia over Europe. Ref/Meg to
leveed recent instances of diplomacy, the noble lord con-
•erli d that the results as want tested in Portugal, in Seitz 'r.
land. and in Green, had by no means neared either the
' dig, ity of this country, or the peace of the world. In Italy
the British dip!omatists had played the rob of partisans
1 abetting Chula Albert in his aggrewrion upon Austria, and
' comforting him under his defeat. The commercial conse-
quences of the propagandism of the Foreign Secretary he
showed, by quotations from " no loss authentic a source than
the Doily Newt," to have been the enactment, by the va-
rious revolutionary governments, of tariffs far more hostile
than hitherto our • line of frontier extending fr-m the Car •
pa•hisa mountaies to the borders of Saxony.
Mr. C ANSTEY, after raising the preliminary objection
to the voe before the house—that it was vague in its terms
—said that, instead of conveying a direct negative to the re-
solution of the lords, it travelled over the whole question of
foreign p Oley, and involved an affirmation of every act of
diplomacy glace the accession of the present ministry to
:rower. This twin approval he declared himself unable to
give ; and, after detailing in • very prolonged address, the
various incidents which had transpired during the last six
years in the totem:nulls between the forrien secretary and
other pmts.'', be admitted that to all that had taken place
since February, 1848, he could accord a sincere concurrence,
but could not join in the approbation expensed in the
resolution u to the previous policy. Under this divergent
impulse, therefore, he felt it to be his duty to vote neither
way.
Mr. B. COCHRANE superseded the allegation of props.
gandism, brought against Lord Palmerston, by the more se-
rious charge of bad faith towards every nation of Europe.
This charge the hon. member proceeded to substantiate
by copious recapitulations of circumstances referred to in re•
lstion to Switzerland, Austria, Piedmont, and Rome. Com-
menting upon what he characterised as the inceediery =le-
gion of Lord Min= into Italy, he reprobated especially the
conduct of that nobleman in the Eternal City, when he
stimulated the plosions of the mob, and even received pub-
licly into his b.: at the theatre the notoneus demagogue,
Cicero:m=lM. A cordial interest was pretended towards the
King of Naples at the very moment that his subjects in
Sicly were being incited, through the medium of the Rog.
heti consul, to throw off their allegiance and invoke the pro
teetion of the Duke of Genoa. Declaring the whole policy,
on some of whose features only ho had touched, to be eosin-
tial'y an-Enalish, he assured the house that this opinion was
based upon long experience, and could not he modified by
the result of the expected division, whatever it might be.
Lord PALMERSTON, whose rising was accompanied by
lend expressions of excitement and approbation, definee the
=sae then pending before the house as far wider than a
mere question of office ; it involved important paints of inter-
national law. In a question of such consequence, he consi-
dered that the conduct of the impugners of the =hinny was
not befitting the character of the tribunal, or the gravity
of the occasion. Whether inspired by a hope of taking
the government by storm, or by a genuine disapproba-
tion of the ministerial policy, they ought to have
laid the resolueion passed by the upper house before
the commons, for their authentication. Now sir (said
Lord Palmerston) the resolution before the House of
Lords involves the future and the past. It lays down for
the future a principle of national policy which I consider
totally incompatible with the interests, with the rights,
with the honour, with the digney of the country,
and with the practice not only of this country,
but of all other countries. (Cheers.) It is a
principle which even the person who moved the resolution
was obliged is his speech to modify—(bear, hear) —though
he did not think proper to insert in the resolution which
the House of Lards has formally recorded those modifications
which he thought it necessary to introduce in his speech for
the purpose of obtaining the concurrence of the majority in
his resolution. The country is told that British subjects in
foreign lands are entitled to nothing but the, protection which
the laws and tribunals of the land in which they may happen
to be may &fiord them. (Hear, hear.) The country is
told that British subjects abroad must not look to the protec-
tion of their own coastry—that they must trust to that in-
different justice wekh they may happen to receive at the
hauls of the gevernmeat and the tribunals of the country in
which they are. The House of Lords has not s aid that
that proposition is limited to sonstitutional countries.
As fez as the country is informed, and as far as foreign
nations are informed, the future rule of [melt= gong.

Wig IS to be that la all cease and ea all questioes,
ear skids" ere oily to share that peotection whisk
lOW ,they Mad Weeds. I deny that propsbidem:
(roinitligen.) > I say k is • deetrine eleirlok no alai**
besavaiyet se bald kis a &striae aIOW thi people
of EDAM wig ' ender any minister to .tat. (Rekerated
shwa.) De Ice.e be my that British sobjeits &roil en*
be above iser-esabot they are to be elm* from, so Sakai
eat of the mope of the kw of the land ? I mesa go suck
thing. (Hear, bear.) Undoubtedly, in the Ant iniessos,
and where the kw it soplkalie, British sob§esee are Wand
to km rescues kgeoluese to the means old* the kw of
the land offistothein. That Is ale *aka which our legal
advisers have &vests fitanumerable mess, and that is the
opinion on which we kin founded car replies to &pollee;
tions which have boss made to se fee interposition Is Amur
of British aubjeeta &bread. Is the irk plea% if our
'abject, have complaints against imilviduals, or egotist the
government, if the gOtellalNlSS le liable to the prossedinp
of a court, no doubt to the souk of justice &lath subjects
ought to apply. Bat there are an Malty of oases is whisk
either there is no emilikees in tribunals, or the tribuaels
are, from their composition sad nature, not of a character to
umpire us with any lope arcoolidenee of obtaining Jostles at
their hands. (Hear, hear.) It has boss ssid, "We do not
mean to apply this to arbitrary sad despotic governments,
because there, evideatly, the tribunals are midge the miatrol
of the government, sad justice is not to be expected from
them ; we do not mesa to apply it to nominally ossatitn-
tional governments, where the tribunals are corrupt." Who
is to be the judge of that ? ("Hear, hear," sad sheers.)
The British government, or the pvernmeat of the state
from which you expect redress ? (Hear, bear.) Well, 11
now, I will take a case which happened not long ago as an
example of the cases in which I am sure the people of
England would not permit a British subject to be simply
amenable to the laws whisk might happen to exist la a fo-
reign country. Ido not talk now of the power of en auto-
crat to send any man arbitrarily to Siberia ; I do aot speak
of countries where the nature of the constitution vests
arbitrary powers in the sovereign. I will state • ease which
happened not long ego In Sicily. A decree was passed that
any man who was found with concealed arms in his pos-
session should immediately be brought before •
court-martial, and, if found guilty of the offence,
be shot upon the spot. Well, now, this ease happened.
Au innkeeper at Catania was brought before a court-
martial, and charged by two °Mean of police with having
committed this offence. The officers had discovered in an
open stable in this man's yard • knife. It was a tea-
-1 pealed weapon. The accused was brought before
• court-martial; witnesses were examined; the examination
ended. The counsel for the prosecution said, " I give up
the ease: there is evidently no proof either that this knife
' belonged to themes accused, or, if it did belong to him,
%et he was aware that It was in the place when it was
found." The counsel for the defendant said, '• Such being
the opinion of the counsel for the prosecution, it is unite.
canary for me to go into say defence. I leave my client In
the hands of the court." The court declared that the
man was guilty of the charge brought against him,
and ilk neat Morning he was shot. (Hear, hear.)
Now, I ask, what would the people of England say, if a
British subject were so treated, or what would they think of
relying for redress on tribunals so constituted, and yet they
are part and parcel of the Law of the country. (Loud chum.)
' Well, I say, that prima facie our doctrine is, that redeem
I should be had through the laws and courts of the country,
but that in awes where redress cannot be had, and particu-
larly where the injury has been done by the government
i'eclf, or,its officers, another Wens must be taken • in short
each case must be dealt with on its own particular merits,
without say general rule. There are constantly occurring
numbers of cases which convince the British government
that if invariably British subjects were to seek redress in
foreign countries only through the courts of law, the effect
would be to deprive them of all chase. of that
redress which they w.re entitled to receive. ( Hear, hear.)
Then the question arises how this rule applies to the de-
mands we have made on the government of Getter. I ought
in the first place to stile the nature of our relations with
Limos, and the condition in which that country has beta
for some time, because those relations and that condition are
material elements in considering the propriety of the course
we have adopted. (Hear, hear.) It is well known that the
Greeks revolted sprout the dominion of Turkey in the year
lelO, and that in IS2$ England, France, and Rune, deter-
mined to interfere and employ forcible means to compel
Turkey to acknowledge the independence of Greece. It is
also known that in 1833 (Puce was, by protocol on which a
treaty was founded, erected into a separate and independent
state, and that whereas ism the year 1820 up to the time
of the treaty in 1833 she had had • republican
form of government, the three powers then determined
that she should have a monarchy, to which the British
government consented, with the indispensable cendition that
it should be • constitutional monarchy. The British go-
vernment would ne-t be a party to molting Greece inde-
pendent of Turkey, with a government as arbitrary as
that from which she had revolted, and consequently, when
the three powers, In the exercise of thou fuuctiocs which
had been given to them by the general assembly of Greece,
chose &sovereign for that country—for the choice was made
in consequence of an appeal from the general assembly—an 1
selected King Otho, they announced at the same time that
he would, in conjunction with his people, give to the country
a representative government. (Hear, hear.) That communi-
cation on the part of the three powers was ratified by a corn
munication from the King of Bavaria speaking on behalf of
his son, who was then a minor. It was understood that
during the minority of the King, the question
should be suspended, and that when he came of age
ate should then enter into communication wi'h his people
and that together they should frame a constitutional go-
vernment. King Othocime of ape, but no constitution was
given to the country. (Hear.) 'I here was a disicelination
on the part of the advisers of the crown to fulfil that engage-
writ, and the government of England expressed its opi-
nion in various ways and through various chew:els that that
engagement ought to be fulfilled. (Hear, hear.) But opi-
nions of a different kind reached the royal ear from other
quarters. (t. Hear," and a laugh.) Countries with arbi
teary formsof government naturally prefer their own sys-
tem, and therefore I do not reproach Russia and Prussia
that they used their influence to prevent King O:bo giving •
constitution to his subjects. But we thought that in France
we should bad a sympathy of political cpioion. (Loud
cries of tt Hear, hear.) Bat In that respret we were unfor-
tunate. (A laugh.) The government of France, while not
at all undervaluing popular institutions, thought that the
time had not come when the Greek nati.n was ripe
for representative powers. I should have mentioned that
Butris took the same side, and therefore from the time
when the King came of age, the British government stood
in this position in Greece, that while wo were known to be
anxious for the fulfilment of engagements which had been
made to her people, all the other powers were averse to their
being fulfilled, or as leant not at all anxious for their fulfil-
ment. ( Hear, hear.) Well, sir, that necessarily placed us
in a situation in which, to say the least of it, we were exposed
to disfavour from the existing government I was tinny for
it, but I do not think the people of this country will be of
opinion that, for the sake of securing the good will of the
Greek government, we should have departed from the prin-
ciple we had laid down. Yet so it war;
and when people talk of antagonistic isftuencee at the
Greek court, and say that our minister was employed in
struggling as to who should appoint nomarchs and ether
petty officers, I beg to say that it is a complete mistake, and
that Sir E. Lyons , from the time he went there to the
time he went away, asked the smallest favour for himself or
any other person. (Hear.) There wee, therefore, no con-
test of the low and petty description that has been alluded to.
Well, sir, one evil of the absence of constitutional institu-
tions was, that the whole system of
_government grew to be
full of various kinds of abuses. (Cheers.) Justin could
not be respected when the public tribunals wen at the
mercy of the adv:sers of the crown. (Hear, hear.)
The same might be said of the fiances, as no confidence
could be placed where there was no responsibility on the
part of those who spent the revenue. Every sort of abuse
was practised. It is well known that throughout all the latter
time, of Greece, and in consequence of the daring habits of
the people there bas prevailed a system of appropriation—
( Laughter)—forcible appropriation by one man of that
which belonged to another, very disagreeable to thou on
whom it was inflicted, and exceedingly injurious to the social
improvement and prosperity of the country. (Hear ) In short,
that which foreigners called brigandage prevailed very much
under the Tuke, and I am sorry to say continued under the
government of King Otho. To this it must be added that
the police committed *bum of the grossest description, and if
I wanted evidence in support of that amertion,ll should appeal
to tho gentleman who has just sat down, and who, in a
pamphlet, has detailed the barbarities practised by those
functionaries. I could read the depositions of persons who
had been exposed to the meet abominable tortures—tortures

inflicted upon both sexes, and in the most revolting and dis-
gusting manner. (Ilrar, hear.) One of those police offi-
cers was a man named Zeno, who superintended himself the
infliction of these abominable tortures. This pitman, I am
sorry to say, escaped punishment, and was subsequently in
gnat favour in quarters where he ought only to have been
looked upon with indignation and contempt. (lieu, hear.)
Such being the state of things, we have always had in Greece
• number of persons whom we were bound to look after and
protect, • great number of Mattes* and lonians, and
• great number of British subjects. It soon became the
practice of the Oeesk police to make no distinction
in their tortures between their own poop', and foreigners.
In the dimuasion of this question we have frequently
heard of special pleading. I am sorry to say that
it has been discussed in a temper and tone which I think
was neither becoming the persons of whom the discussion woe
made, by whom it was made, or the peril, a before whom it
was made. (Cheers.) It may eonietimve be more conve-
nient to treat natters with ridicule than with grave argu-
ment. We have had these matters treated in a ludicrous
manner, and men kept for hours in roars of laughter at the
indications of poverty, at the nationahty of one man and the
religion of another. (Loud cheers.) As if hematite men are
poor they are to be hastinadoed and otherwise tortured with
impunity ,• that because a man had happened to be born in
Scotland he should be robbed without redress ; or that
because another happened to be of the Jewitb I er-
suuion he was to get no redress, no matter what might
have been the injuries inflicted. (Loud cheers.) Now, with
regard to this ease, I shall take first that which would natu-
rally present itself to the minds of Englishmen, I mean the
insult which was offered to an altar and boat's crew of see

of her 's skips. Time km boon when men who ee-
-1 pined to pa statics would have eonsidered It part of their
deity to the Wooer of the British flag, but
Aimee are giumged. (Hear, hese.) The Insult was argued
away is abeam It Mae said that the area were oily taken
up by ealstahoo sad es discover est fro agile. Were we
narmeonable la this mm ? All we asked was as apology.
(Hear, hur.) I Mat thought I should not live to see the
day whoa • IMO me* ia England woillable auld think the
deemed of • an apology for the unjestrrest
of a British °Sole gad his men when In the perform
'ease of their duty, doubtful in its nature, and exaggerated
fa marnat. (Cheers.) The meet fasts of the cue were
them:—Tics sou of the viee-coorml dined es bawd the Fan.
tome, and was taken en shore ha the evening by a coxswain
and ots' Mew, WOW ow the beads, ad wonted to his
father's house. The antswain on his return was arrested.
by the guard, who, finding that the mea In the
hoed had no arms, struck them with the butts
of their muskets, acid emended one with • bayo-
net. They were than taken to the guardhouse, and
after some oxplanatket released. Busses were given hill of
imbeetatentents, but the gist of them was that the guard had
mistakes the use, for a boat's grew of the Spitfire, and that
May wen employed is landing escaped rebels, the rebel being
a boy of 121.51. old. (Hear, hear.) Bat the fact was that
a little while Woo, Is 00ceaasseegqawes of the disorganised state
of Grows, which disorganimtioa had arisen entirely from
the conduit of government In amnestying brigands, an
armed hand had attacked the town of Pate's, and taken
of it. There was a gOvernOT sad as armed forte,
Ertt;s thought that disereuos was the better part of va-
lour, end retired, leaving the towupeople entirely at the
mercy of the brigands. The people of the town did not at all
like their visitors, and, finding themselves deserted by their
natural protectors, they threw themselves on the protection
of the foreign consular body, and begged of them to make
some arrangement with Merenditi, the brigand chief. They
did so, and an arrangement wu effected, by which Mum.
diti was to receive a certain sum and retire on safe conduct.
The only safety he was satisfied with was a passage in •
British ship, and, having received the money, he was
marching slog the quay to embark, when the Governor,
who bad hued of the arrangement, came out
from his hiding-place end sought to captors some
of the rear guard. But our officer said " No,
there is not only houour among thieves, but
honour to thieves. We have been asked to guarantee the
safety of these men ; we have done so at the request of the
townspeople, and their safety must be respected.' (Cheers.)
This was the cue for which we faked so moderate • repara-
tion. I come nest to the case of the lonians ; and first let
me take three who were plundered at the custom•bause.
Those men wen passing the custom-house in their boats,
when they were hailed by the otllcor in command. The
moment they landed he informed them that he was a
prisoner in the bands of banditti, and immediately the
boats were plundered. At the same time there was •
Greek vessel lying in the port uninjured. Don't tell me of
comparing thus to an attack at Terracina; I say that if a
government is not able to protect its own customhouse, and
that foreigners are robbed and plundered at that custom-
house by robbers in the disguise of revenue ofßcen, then
surely Inch government must lo held responsible. (Cheers.)
And that I suppose is the causer in which these unhappy
lonian boatmen ought to have gone to law with the Greek
government. (Hear, hear.) Why, it is a mockery to tell
them so. (Hear, bear.) We 'eked for them hut a moderate
compensation for their actual leases. We demanded nothing
ter the personal indignity and injury they suffered, but sins.
ply that they should be compensated for the property of
which they had been deprived. (Hear, hear.) Then comes
the other case of the lonians, who, innocently se the
imagined celebrating a notional custom with flags and
benners, are interfered with by the police, and compelled to
take down their flags. I do not blame the Greek rovernment
for that. Well, these lonises took down their flags, which
wereseised. Some discussion took place about the inviolability
of the Beglab flag—a discussion natural enough to arise
under the circumstances, but we let that drop, and had this
bean all that took plate, seething more would have been said ,
about it, except that it was • hardship that these people,
when merely observing a national custom, should be inter-
fered with by the police, and their flags and bar non taken
away. But this was not all. These men were arrested,
manacled, sad thumbecrowed, end in that state were
marched through the streets. (Hear, hear.) It had been
said, he knew, " How could thy be taken to prison except
through the streets ?" True; but it was not necessary for
that purlieu that they should be marched through a number
of streets that did not lie in the way, and par soled through the
town. (Hear, hear.) And then as to the thumbserewing
it bad been urged, " Well, the men were not hurt—they
were not maimed for life; surely for merely thumbscrew.
ing these men during a pleasant evening's walk you do not
mien to ark for conipensation " (" Hear," acd a laugh.)
Now, sir, I confess I take • different view of the ease trim
those who use that argument. (Hear, hear.) Then come
the case of the two men at l'yrgos, of whom it
was said, is their houses were found to be inhabited by dis-
agreeable insects, their sufferimes and the injsry they may
have been subjected to are subjects rather for merriment
than serious complaint. (" Hear," and a laugh.) That,
however, is not my opinion. Now it appears those men
were taken up to • place, and Sagged with • whip, in the
presence of persons woo say they saw them so fl egged. Now
what richt bad they to be so treated ? (Hear, hear ) They
had committed no offence, they had been tee d by no court,
and had been sentenced to 0) pnoisbment. And
for these compensation was demanded, not merely
for the injury they had sustained, but to show
the Greek government that the British government
would not permit persons entitled to their protection so to
be treated. (Cheers.) And, sir, I scorn to take the poverty
of the men as • reason why parliament should think they
were not entitled to that protection and to compuis:tion for
the iei arks inflicted upon them. (Loud cheen.) Then, sir,
we come to the else of Mr. Finlay. Now the statement
with which we are met here is that Mr. Finlay was • canny
Seotehmata who speculated in land, and that he had bought
in the cheapest and wanted to sell in the de an at market,
and was disappeinted in the latter ri epee: it was,
after all, a mere case of diamond out diamond,
and from the fact that the King of Greece was
the stronger of the two, and pot the better of the bargain,
he had no title to call for the interference of the British go-
vernment, and ought to have been norent with what the
King of Greece chose to give him. (Hear, heat.) Now by
our law, end by the law of most other civilised countries,
when it is found necessary to take land for pub'sie tamers. s,
or great cational works, no doubt the public good must
always car nide private rights to this extent, that the owner
must give up possession of his property to the state; but ,
then, on the other hand, he is entitled in the first place to
have the value fairly ascertained, and to be paid the true and
just amount that the property is worth—(hear, hear)—not
that which the person who stizes the land may
charter to award, but according to a fair and im-
partial valuation. (Hear, hear.) But in this case
the land was not taken for any such publi:
nurpose, but to contribute to the private enjoyment of the
King of Greece. Mr. Finlay was perfectly ready to
give up the land, always provided he was paid the
fair value. Then, is there any rotten in saying,
that bec.use I years before he had b ught
the land at a very cheap rate, he was not entitled to receive
a price in proportion to the increased value which under
altered circumstances the property had acquired? Why, the
commonest principles of justice between man and man would
lead to this course cf proceeding in such a cue—that we are
not to inquire what was the value when the property was
purchased by him in the first instance, for that value might
have increased or diminished, but what was the value when
it was taken from him. (Hear, hear.) Now, I must own
that the history of this case is one that all persons who feel
an interest in royalty must cave read with extreme pain.
(Hear, hear.) la 1643 came the rcvo'ution. Up to
that time the government of Greece had contiuucd arbitrary,
the King declining to agree to representative institution..
The patience of the Greek' at length became exhausted, arid
in the year 1843 they rose et Athens and extorted by force
that which he had up to that time refused them. (Hear.)
When that constitution was established courts were condi-
tuted—not independent courts—for the judger were liable to
be dismissed and removed from court to court atthe pleasure
of the King or the government, as they often are, but courts
were established in which we are told Mr. Finlay might
have promoted his claim. But those courts had no cognizance
imppened before ti,ey were brought into
existence, and,tat hconeequently, Mr. Finley had no remedy
therein. (Hear.) But it has been confidently and trium-
phantly asserted as exhibiting the bad faith of the British
government in the matter that we were aware at the time
when Mr. Wyse made the demand on the Ore. k
sovereign that the claim of Mr. Finlay was 'tale-
solutely, entirely, and conclusively settled." ([fear )
Sir, it was no such thing. (Cheers.) That assertiori is
"absolutely, entirely, and conclusively" at yeti ince with
the fact. (Loud cheers) There had been, it is true, an
agreement fon referring the matter to arbitration, and a
curious sample this adonis of the manner in which such
things are carried on in Greece. The offer for arbitration
was made—" Very good" said the government " refer it by
all means. You stall name an arbitrator, and we will name
another." Mr. Finlay saw, however, the possibility—which
might have struck even a man not so far north—(laughter)
—af the two &Alarrat n so appointed differing, and he sug-
gested an umpire. The Greek government replied, " You
are quite right ; by all means let us have an umpire, and
MO will appoint him." (Hear, and a laugh.) But
Mr. Finley was unreasonable enough to object to submit his
came to • tribunal where two to one of the judges would ti•
against him, and he declined the proposal. Well, at length
the Week government saw that this was an unreasocahle
proposition, and en arbitration was agreed upon, the Arbi-
-1 Ureters to consist of respectable persone, with an umpire
properly appointed. This was in October, and if the arbi-
tration hail gone on no doubt Mr. Imlay'. cue would have
been absolutely, entirely, and conclusive ly settled. (Hear.
hear.) But, by the law of Greece, arbitration so appointed
must pronounce its award within three month., or, b
,y
hips' of time, the tribunal fells and drops to the ground.
Well, it appeared the commissioners could not make
their award for want of certain documents, which
documents could only be furnished by the officers of the
Greek government, arid by some unfortunate accident—(a
laugh) they did not furnish them, and the arbitratien tell
to the ground. (Hear, hear.) M. Gros understood that this
case was settled, and when the demand was made on behalf
of Mr. Finlay, he wastage by the reply from M. tiros," Why,
your case is settled " "No.' rejoined Mr. Finlay. " Whotl
have you nut received the money ?" says M. Gres. "
said Mr. Feulay, " I have not received a ferthieg., nor has ,
the amount which I am to receive been settled ; • and, in
fast, when M. Gros went to mediate, this case was in the
MOSS state as it stood in previous t albs arbitration. (Hear.)
Now, air, this was a case in which we made
no specific demand but what we asked was
merely that Mr. Finlay should receive whatever
the value of the property taken from him might
OD investigation tura out to be. We fixed no specific sums,
and the sum ultimately awarded was, Mr. Wyse states,
arrived at by taking the awards of the two arbitrators—the

t h:towuen.t
..N o(lwires iadfr ..
)c
hI e
But,
1 1
r:a
,t
). °I ti
t. 17.1-, u s-d
kite e •I. 44_•,..'
I::;finanhci :111E,o1;ndsblier.::::cbanainsa.31:Mrdani414.1:oyutPistoTtaaciYrkai.drahadrimilnibomeeftnu.t.iikr.bis'iaPP"huwole-thivfie:adcc:ttoti.thedanfeihseteinc:4:::4,4l:l4,l:td:r-fteitillit:".;Sctiusi_e':;:-"1._:::1.411:
hear.) AU I know is, thee aft:, -ro"ote
which those stories relate, M. ?goof:cc:7 '
first as Portuguese consul to Morocco ..."A
at Athens. and 1 can hardly step tlYt -Co: o'
government would have selected • of- iyA—. ....._'.4
fill edifices of such importance. Me o 3 -7,°•••
beyond
dat
imputation.
not admit that because a man 'Mope too
wrong, on some other one Won, and to ets",,o,„dft, 1'
whichimilg:trihaatTktebeettiewnisoMutbes.:lPbaecifgfiv:sto
wrong because we think that;
have some time or other done somettO c , ,---"
Now, what happened in the case of AL pa=rtt
midst of the town of Athens, and in a Lome sr' ' ll'
be allowed to save was not the wretched tate'?
has been described during this deb , tt.-
does not matter whether it wan a palace oltr; - for in either a man should bo equally protect rz"
jnetico-(heer, hear)-but In this house, elt clI
was not a wretched hovel, but one which, rbt, I
days of King Otho's reign, win the
of Count Annausperg. the Chief of the Conan! ,
and of government officials, before the Elio /-
throse-(hear, hear)-M. Pacifico while Ito
house, in the very midst of Athens, within forty 3
great street, and not two ',sinew,' distance hal
house, where soldiers were stieioned, has hie hoe
he is threatened by a mob, and an apolying for
finds that no protection can be &Horded him. Ili
soldiers and gendarmes, if not unde r the three
their officen, are acting with their knooliih
cent with the mob, which sou heads.
son of the Minister of War, that vie
a mere child of 10 or 12 yeses of age, bat a y
IS or 20. This mob, so composed and at. heade-d'
way icto M. Pacifioo's house, rtuoiced tea;,
breaking and destrojing, and when they -,..4 4,
and carried away all that it contained, oasnie
nothing but a wreck. Is that a cue is whit!' i
entitled to redress from somebody ? (11.0.
humbly venture to thick that it it-shear, 4,..
Hem toere is no civilised country is soot;
had sustained such a grievous errotg -
nothing of pet:es:mat insult lad tau'
on his family-I believe there is no civil:mg
which a man who had sustained such a wrong.
expect redress from some quarter Of other. i )
Where then was M. Pacifico to apply to r..
Greek government had neglected its duty el r
judicial iuquiry into the outrage, and asOeng it
of a government prosecution, u it mgot
to have done, to discover toed put.,
the character.b
be
that
party -
es wronged .4u( o
willev ol:it:6
,°::::' a
fenders. The son of the Minister of War',
out, and it was even said, if you !earth
yon will find M. l'acitico's gads-yet coil
kind was done and Id. l'ecifiso wee told no rc
the courts of law. Why, what was he to el, :fore
prosecute the parties crininally ? lie on.; t.,,, ,
tljing to avoid the cutrages with wo.ch they
eased, and he says he believes ht owes ;Os ore tc
friend. And if he could have Luce. •ut some of
in the attack un his house he e.,,1 on:r hi
evidence against a very few ot total t
justify a prosecution, and wl.o; 'woo,. so,
have been to him to have pro-mu:el .!.e .etnei
that have re/eon il his property ~ WLat hs was
revenge, but redreto. klor that purpose a trim,
ticn was out of the qeeslion, to say ranting art
of AUCCCIS against government othoielo in ac.
the legal tribunals are wholly under toe a etas,
vernment and the crown, and where the fed:,,
be removed at pkasure. Thin way ha to prae
wages? Aolinst whom would hi. act, oi cosi
one man took his property. It w,a earn.
stroyed by the mob. But sowed
by poseibiL:y tare proved that some one ini
away any cue pth:icular thing or deotioyeu
article of turoi:ure, what coanco wood he
success 1 What would have bea the runs
of an expenove law suit, whien his legal adv.
it would be vain to undertake, at all events iq
300 of the n.ioister of war. This toe then
was a claim oot "unfounded in justice.
and a laugh.) Tie amount we did not pretend o
the Greek government hal admitted •he print.; .
claim when appiication was made to them, ace.
all the items of ace mut seat by 31. Fame,
this is too much, that would have been a
open for future Oiscustion, which our minister.
Lyons, or Mr Wyse, would have been prepare..
cuss, and the result, no doubt, would hav
a satisfactory arrangement of the amot
But the Greek government denied altogether the
of the claim, and when Mr. Wyse made the demo.
cou.d do was to require that the claim 'Louil be se o
that the money should be paid, but that the .
should bes ada.i•te a within the time rpeclaed, v . . •
Well, then, was there anything so ut cer.erous in o
back our demand a force which sheu.d male i: ;....
the world that resistance was out of the querns '
seems to me, sir, that on the costrory it eves c r., ,
with the honour and the dignity of the. r. r. t...-r.: ..i.
we fluids those demands that there ssoo.. '-o p.a.a a
nUest before its eyes a forte wtidi it el- es.. :a res.
upon which it car therefore, no iod : ..I a; ~
they failed toning! (Hear, hear.) 1: w. ~
'tidal* and sloop of war, or any tone u:..._ se to.:
thought it possible that title farce Moth: Late me,
should, I think, have put them in . nothe use.: ea....
tion in asking them to yield to so :4a.al. a zme . at.
fore so far from thinking that our tone '4-S en air
of what is celled toe dignity of our -.striae:'', I ?Loa
that a eircumstaece that the (000.
have rather considered as done. '
I Fetch as it Ught be-that of tee.,
thee which was eo Leg refuel. e
aid we, in the application of that
trots establishel usage, or do anythico ..._
oily pressing upon toe ianomat and 'mods o lir e
ci Greece ? I ray innooect sad unolfenon g, bec
against the gover;,rti, at, and not ageing the ifro
claim for redress tor the wrong was Old.rceu.
and cheers.) Well, the courses pursued in so
wrong Is done by a governm.nt towue's the
another goveromeat-the courses that may be ; .
various. One course is what is commonly ca.:. o
that is, seizing Poaching of Taloa and h.leing t: :.
until your demands are complied woo.
length you teal in that, and Jo no: c.
resort, to any other method, am lying what yca , es
in compensation for the wrong. Auotro r ~..
modified operations of war-..such as a hi,ea. .c.
sure frequently adopted by the governmurs .4 o.
where they have demanded redress la :0;:..r.,
these are actual hostilities, such measures so h.,.
quoted as having been adopted by the goval.:.:
other countties, esoecially by the gomement e: .
when they bad ,'.sounds to make ter :conies au.:
Ar.d, by the bye, when people comoohn of oti
rempthry manner is which the ~..11:4C4 woe
and tree small time allotted :„ s c.:
really wish to call the recollection .: oos
which happened a'. Naples, in the ...hie • :
eon, in the year 'Silk Now, there was a.
Naples in May, Inia• The greet Erect et
tilled with barricades. and the troops bsd to tore,
ricsdes. To do that, they were obliged to ecoupy 1.
right and left, in order to force their way. As th,
terced one house alter another, they neglsceed t.
guards kehind them to protect the rouses torced,
were followed by the lazzazooi-the mob-and the
were plundered. Some of the boasts in the 'Arne
to French subject,, and they were tOunde reel. i
French subje C:11 romploined to the in ace tuic.o*
French admiral. there b:irg then • Preach sous.,
the bay and part a little way off, sec .rehoo to too
up the bay, lays his ships broadsi,e to o
; .pkoartinio Naples, lc
nat
Gvaair4 ttwi.ehi,b do sot
4cutizedlmvi a o
a,t
.resto
and writes a note to say that he has 10,,
countrymen for protection, and ;Of o.
at half. past 1 on the 17th) unless
he gets a satie:actory assurance-, - , ni '.
that his count', men shall be etftce r.•., , ~"
he says, for iu:ure discussion, chino a r
I hut " sales, in use hour and a ba.f. ' h,
v„......a .b.: -1.2
I '''''.....s ship a satioactory assurer. e '.O i'
• protected, I will land the crews of my :Os:. i
tont redress.- tß'newet ministerial eae, se '
I say Sr William Parker acted with the ;rem,:
in caforciog our delisted,. Ile began with 4.
did not, begin web • blo.kade. lie %viatica t: a,
temtption with the commerce of other e. woo
-
hear.) But he made reprisals in a way not :too o
for an obvious rea,on, they have not to', o env,: no
way. The gov. lament was the offe tiding pat's
Esuession of v. sods belonging to them. , Ile •
Now that is not the usual practice, and Lr a ‘
; reason. Ve mole belooging to government a,'
Armed vessels may feel it their duty to defeco the
To 'toss armed :eructs would proliarly lead to
and that is avoided by seines/ tnercoant !.see:.
this instance, the disparity of force woe so g,"`
took a few sexed vessels. lie gave them time to .•
that demonstration. It was not atte..ded is. li.„
he did not mimed stay proceed to mirk r.prisils . u w•
i vessels. 11,1 lii 1 an embargo. lie Kale Lone!. Ile ;
i That
on them,
a limited number, and placed them under the Cu''"
Peoples avoidsrse to subject the cenimerceot the et. •
I
/one ral to any al. g:re of restraint that was not ue e':
Met they inielit not quit their
and cheers.) We hey* been told of tishing•boe • •
; been seised, and poor people interrupt...l and ; res...
' th. it business Ido not believe thee,. eireuentaisees . •
necessary for thweisies.ec lut.ionhenohtehtioos kins""chatieunts.vel......
hear.) 0 , the con:rary, I know that the etubai.: •
e :teed to 6 eteirs,/ boats or vessels of see .•• •
nage empkey d in the little c ousting tr ..o
the couotrr. o.7he. re.) Well, in that sta:e 0: 1.•
the French government offered us the . s..
slices of neoliotion. We readily and cheerfully ee •,•
that offer. We accepted it by a note, which au the t • • ,
the 12 h of rlbrudry, to which we dearly and
the
O••.
stated toe (solids and conditions on which, and
to which three a' el e films were to b: accep ed. I
t..:
collet be' no nest eke b, tweet' the English and the
...1, l'
e'st
' Wu he k Al Oaf pr..
governments on that su.et. *.. .. CU
case of the quesei is at Naples when alitudeur ei
..
~_ i
Unister. la that case, oar eommuoication w•,. ?'',
reprisals wore to be suspended the mom
~...
0'...,, u
French minister on the spot declared bowel( au. .

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moose, wo amid tlO mionest thee overture
Myna -"Ap•- coo en.M mad wt wood that autism
N rsrp.aded . but la both aim we said
win"' :ewe the mails takes, begaste, if we did,
" „wrote.. Well, it has bees Mated
6' 'I hat" " 1.-tweet the government of
to'
—we mow d
tie peernio. at ! Emalao itt the nuke al this
I•:te`-- e.. or whatever it may hi
rho!. run thy re Was any misaninatiad.
, ' "-g piny* at Lima sad myself. (Cheers)
rr i.;•"„,11;; t.„' wyei by his despatches. sa lead before the
Pn'"" , that he el. any understood the sonditioss
I effom of Frazee were incepted. He n-
ye Finland gives op sons of her dominate,
1"••": ',mu of the principle of her d. mends. and the only
.„• tht our nigkietar is compe•eat to &WOW are
°Ow !I Jo oo• eo:ve the se Intioa of the principle
• ,e
Mu.) W ell, what were those
Tbow instils. ...to, the
the
of uses»
to Mr. risky. aid the mount of
era to M. ranlios not • ques-1
kr" Fnisy was to receive anythiog or
wa 'Wt."
wt • q ~,,,ricra whether M. raciago was to
sr:
5 a ta11.... t" SW. hear." sad shier..)
, C.Tthilit Is so, what were the eiream-
. he •••ertion WON
which eh* good Obis of Pent* were to isms
..rnetestri to he »marl ; and it was distiastly
if; • e.. mT rat* at well uon that of M. Dronya
•• : .:tor VCs. ' wa• ace to take span bimetal: It
yr.rc eir • rimer/ wino M. Gross migsisalshad
•
, or call sham M. Oros finassated
hal cemel, that Mr. Wyss was le
women& mid imandiataly, too en that
ewe. It was fart hyr agreed, sod ea gip
that if a dilkeeste of opinioa arcs between
gr. Won. spin these points which M Ores
I „ to thongs, Mr. Wise was r to stand out
•" „.
u^ r, p • diareence. and that, Ulu did not think
,
5 •4
etre troy, he was—tostead of saying, "Now,
-r minion Is v. an cad"—to refer home fog
it is said sow that it was vety MVOs of
tole seat to Mr. Wyse itemisation, of *at
grtors tenr•-n os the eth of April, and la.
t • " N iw, in the ant placer I had a'read
r!4!,A. y
". on the :in of Monk, isstrac• ins which
I ' iey situ in the spirit they w.re write's, would
"'.. reiciitee unateemary, and whirl did render it
'yeasty. at la.t, wit.. M. Oros mud Mr. Wyse
" • the is ant to be paid. M. Oros said
ea' cuo:i the ger. salient of Ore's, to pay
t` • end when Mr. Wyss kid he
• .: still, though that differing* exist»
Mr. WIN, at hitt, sick more prar'ently
•; „ g the differssre home, sad thereby imposing
:.=sera to the Jetty of a whok mouth, during
lowa most tk. a bale remained in Matt goo,
.:ter thinto ate &crew! to, I will come dowa
ray, :.nd I will r vein the sum you lay the Greek
. 0.1,/ht to pay." iLrth minhiterial cheery.)
;•tac..0.11.• on the rent., that cast cid am min
Cats them inttruc•iots could apply. (fear, hear.)
• : .::.o.ass, n trey had reached Mr. Wyse, would
01103 to the libretti which did arise betigeon
g woe. for that different* was thu—it turned on
racitin. /I Oros, on the 16th of April
• ; t • r.cosanned to the Greek goner meet to Erne
re•oweett w onertigate the claim of M. Paean
.; the lose of hit .141011111011til, to pay to his what-
. • 5401 the amnia which upon investigation Is
•• • to be their value, aad to make a deposit of
• !twain+ as a pledge of (trod faith. Aid
:.• L (teem.* het ;sea Mr. Wyse sad M. Ono
•• •., am ilia, that hi. Gros proposed
•lersr. tank they bath agreed should be shares
, • ...- ei Athens, sbcald Timis in the Berk of
sheens Mr. Wyw trquir.d that the amount
r yit..l tither in 'he Bank of England, sr, if
X• . • -.fem.! ic, in thr Bank of nine*. That cress to
.I,rtitte that mi4bt easily be adjusted. Bat on tho
M. Geo. ktered irk opt». a. Ile retramid
r. that pyit.t. He laid later innrsistion from
, t• 1 .Leiteed km that M. Pullin's claim was
sule wood sot consent to retain:mead
•71. • 1. Tersm•ct to enter into say engagement to pay
; r Be w aid gamy oat no investigation, but le
the debt of rornegst, it mu t be Portugal
• - ..• ;so aLd she the Greek government. Well,
...:it "-Am .hat M.Groo vs. competent to act upon.
.• ear." and loud ministerial cheers) It was a se-
:, . oe of the peimiphs of our demand ; and I sever
of easing to an understanding tintypes
see llr. Wyse ws• to refer hose for ins-rue-
, • • 5... r heal inersetions cn the 23th of Match,
• • to pile kis on that pont. (Hear„.)
s witkbew from the negotiation. Hhesz
He had
e....•..• r 'Alp Ey a communiestion to Mr. Wyse, but ;
et ski to the 13: goveramest. Oa tho
. . :ospatch from General Lahltto giving an
• •• coseensiion I had with M. Droops do
%it the amount is tot comedy given. It
s-• . umed that, if the arenspinest did act
4: Teresa» was to be had at bow.
. , . •a% and thereto» it is not cosset.
„; ••• . Tuoi being th• cos.. I am
- -.-t, ro note of yesterday, sad let us refer host
•., • W-li, an isapronion km gone areal
era: '--era the 24th—M. Oros reativad and
.-e4 • Wyss ant merely as ageosat of this
r •••••• and M. Decays do Unison thy.
.; •r. ..s• .f the esientasi beak sad of the near
. h. .r..* of a convention which was proposed for
tt• • ••• to • ma en the 13:11, which au di/cursed
: •' • •is, which Ir..SafTlNd to ca the 18th, and
. • Sir. Wyse has bees greatly blamed
•._ • ;..rr and is Fence, ups the amagaptios that
•• • N ter 4 taken» him c o ate 2lth of Apia that the
. 4' r, nth goverament. had come to as agreement
• basis of $ conontian to be taped, sad
. • :Jain bin that that eosvention was sootily
.r
• -:.:at noverthelon hi renewed coercive meaner.
.• mention, to far as Kr. Wyse is concerned, is
u; true—(load ministerial chess)—is testae and
(Renewed mitiaterist etreen.) Mr. Wyse
. communkatioa fres M. Oros on the 24th. nor

'1(51,5 it earner them the 2nd of May. relative to
.'art of asonwestios of any kind cr sort. Witt they M.
refititell that communication or not on the 24th se
to be settled between him acd his uverenie nt. I
• d to believe that he did receive it. It was die.
stated by " ear own ofnearndent " of the
-11001 latghterl—that M. Oros did inform
Win ea the 24:h of the eawyeatioa, sad is
1 that Mr. Wyse rowel coercive measures. I en•
... the name's flovenunest to soy that that was as
.cakt—that M. Orts did not receive that informa-
.• therefore, coald not have communicated it. Be
a• a may, Mr. Wyss certa;sly did not receive it.
. h etc) Therefore, sir, that complaint against Mr
t t tome from whatever quarter it may—sincerely
Id it was at the atoseat—i• now disallowed, and Is
entitled to credit. (Hear, hear.) Now, with
,:her complaint, that I did not write to Mr.
as .a.ount of what reamed on the 9.b of April, the
et i.r that is, that be was already in possession

t: _Le, which were taat.ssouat to a cimaninniesrien
t. t• 1. • sad that on the ear titer arrangemtat
I. re 'feu. which, providing for immediate settlement
t. •re t, reunited ftlerenees home oat of the qaestion.
H.lf bet it is said, " the Preach oonld have seat
seal sty conida't you ?" The answer to that fa,—l
•/* T.,. kletlOU ; they were fa Paris. Oar steamers
t. . ere .th truald have beta a 101 l time ping to
frt. •wsl4 mot have reacted there so soon as steamers
Mert.s.lss (Baar, hear.) But the coaveation
t• •te ::tee 'el.. screed oa, and sent oat, that convention

re. a.: luau Mormon unnecessary. And when it
thew contends of oars were so mach repudiated
r,sertsenie of Itmeste and Frame, and that oar
:tete Inroad ram the risk of involving this country
•+•. 1 ass: be permitted to say that, with regard to
toe lute r .eipa,ch of Count Newelrode to Baron

L• c •. 01 tts 9J of le`yruary negatives that aster.
.:, fir it sags that the comp:aint is that we
'.'s eantics is attentiAt to the government of
!• • •• toniesm:cating with them at the moment—
:sew lo'.l two years ago, it. October, 1847, that the
•••-• • .• tetra,' -rhea we Mali think it nemary to have
t t • CArCkla, and that it at the moment when we bad
t. :Lott meteor.'. we hai a•ktd them to 1;.% iti
L-4.......4ce,y1eiy ,o:d have used their sotto to iodate
e,i,fLOALI O. f.irteos to WAN to an makable settlement,
4.: ....it .1 di-.e had tailed, they mild sot have
• -.e.1e.1 that we skoe.ld have yomposed our measures
.yeltreati to their wistas. (Hear, and eh"".)
tisa I, to Frame sad the umb-telked of convention of
t",y... ynctlp,
1 '4"1.7. a •••••votiui whisk acknowledged all
01 LW and the security which we
tE•eight sad right 'dear. Liar y lam sorry that that
C.Lltt.ti...ll did LA init. beta, LoOther Settlement took
t," 1;4 *a. 1,1 Mr. %,, who pat as ord to
Ps. (!t4 t L. 6 0..4&:1'..L. 64 M. fir s himself 'oilaol/y sad by
cgamucieatiws whlttuttl not only to Mr.
.t the gov.rameat of 'Erases. He
(N,, i.e.) iris. Ho was strudel,

.F. I'o
.t 46.4.).

ILI ti

came tit Wyl,
'e, and I wul tetwra_goewy eat let what
,11 t o ri darnel as a dream. Mr. Wpm said, "
. that , Oat I I,•ve sauthir proposal le make, sad
1.T.Y010.114 111141*. lißk Me to refer to
• .tp these Greek ',nee!, is custody
sate. pendia, tie reply, and to subject
perud Greek tontesente to as node-
hentiaa. I will propose another coarse.
r•• ,%. rum at will wed we 194,000 drachmae,
ti• tam I t' quite, with a letter stating that that
in 'at %rattan et all our claims, excepting the
11. I'a bean in respect of the Portuguese docuineats,
use or ouutiou the st .tat quo, but at
-* •L tht Grttk yowls, excepting ore or twog:
t.• ha the failiiment al the arreogesnat
gement w.eld have heist° leave to futon
be p. n„ which Mr. Wyse sad M. Ores diffend.
• at• tie. pled the carnation wr uld have arrived la
I ets.l4 have kneed the basis of the itettlemeat, sad
have .eased. What was M. Or is' whose
;•, ;•• Why, this. I have withdrawn how
•• •• Witten.) I rant anneal to it."
" r although M. Gres cad, " I have officielly with.
• t ,tatited tt ha Gal none kaolin Mr. N=
'he rovers*. at of Urgent, oddity!, "
• ••• h•qinuff4W puss will pt the messy you have
• • 'ideally ispiyioo, at least, that he had
4 the Greek goverament to comply with the
4. Mr Wyse. DM Mr. Wyse catch at the lint
..pourtaaity to yet Sir Willie. Pukes to
,fteests i Far from it. (awn )
• ' I•alli w rteil till the 24. b, and from the 21%
•he waaad till hoe o'cleek rune and west be-
wed. hie eelnetaideatias that COltfeite runesma 4. Mr. Wyse therah,re did rot pal as cad to
" • Itieetiaos, and did aq alto, soy lodination to re-
".:,-,vs measure., for Ee sot only intruded IL Oros
t•, toalinue his lent You, bet after

them lunation had wiesed, be intonate& Ores to
renew his mem at least of easelfation. (Hear
Mar.) Negotiations have dose then taken plea;
betimes Freese and lies#sad, whisk aim
to sey kayo brought the man n/ te • eatiakMery
Wo we Perfettisr•Zaus• meoptuselk part of Wesemetten bola to the things that
rani to be Amu 110 Ihr•Wat oem to sleep that
mavaniiin Weasel of whet nee am the 2a=sa
the spot Bevis( resolved deadleheu sod
it we den's Wein ea the dillmanes between that min sad
the min lammed the sesvenalen.
with Athens, whish wrest ameba let M anew
to M. Paeiheo; as has been mails tor the
es that the °sly exalt/V:5 to be meth" was the
meet whisk was to b• mode fee laelatleatiog tbaagidaitei:(
M. Panties. It,. Wyse's ansagemist was an essisage M
mum, bat m that mly Made the esirthater, and might be dis-
avowed by his emesseer. Kr. Wyse required • substantial
security by • lodgment of • sou of meoey—the Invade-
tion to be made by the sourreamsta of Grosse and Hog.
lead. Tr. ormvende• I had settled with M. Dronyo de
Limp outland a diplomatist guarantee Mewed, to
I be ratified by the two sownlgeu and a wintsti•-
, slue of 'shanties be be amid hp the three
governmeats. We at. prising may to sellotiente
stint if the Greek gamesome cheeses It. If Om Greek
Le:rameat prefers the arreagement the emainilina, we
prepand lad seat out • draft, enbititutlng It ler the
strange moot of the 27th of April. If monitai • saletestial
depend will be no kelp r wiesesety. Thom was ens Oat la
Mr. Wyse's artangesseat not Included fin the drat et the
moven/ea we known—as it applied to obenenstrems wades
we wets am thin 'morsel'. Mr. Wyss required so mime.
meat ea the port of the government of Green
mot to put forward my claim ter Wailes arising
out of the prep we have had neoures to.
Mr. Wries reason far defog that were that he underrnod
the genememeat of Grano intended to pat forward claims to
a image moons'. We attach no Tilos to Skit engagement,
as beering_in any masher whatever upon the validity of nub
claims. Them daime have no kmadation whatever, sad if
pat forward by the Greek government, the mower meld
only be what right mad memo would segpst. Bet the
nature of that engagement was, that by secure
leg ourselves agalcat soon daises, we p revealed
the Greek government from reaming a dioces-
ans which might lead agala to • seaspeaskot of
frieadly relation. (Hoer, hear.) If kn. madmen an
peepand to wen, iomeed of that, the coed cease et Frame
to a erne the King of Genes net to put forward any such
teatisaded claim, thus *annuities all the differences
between England and France in regard to this matter.
(Cheers) Indeed I believe if it wen not for the disceri en
which is coming ea the mad Assembly the destiagnistied
individual who represents the government in that as-
sembly would have been present here this event's'
to hear this debate. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
Br much then tot the termination of the affair
of Greece, which I have taken first is order.
There remains only the question of them far-famed islands
of Seekonk sad Cervi, respecting which my opinion is clear
and decided ; sad that opioioa is supported by my prede-
cessor ia offiya, Lord Aberdeen. (Bear, hear) The case is
simply this. There wen wreaks islands off the coast of
Green whisk, originally belonging to Venice, were by the
treaty of 1800, hewn. Runde and the Porte, erected to e
separate state. Pour other places belonging to Venice were
restored to the Porte. But the seven great Islands were
erected into as Independent state ender that treaty, which
declared that the constitution thu that state was to give
to itself should be communicated to, and have the sanction
of, the Suzerain, and the protection of Russia. In 1804,
in execution of that constitution, they made a municipal
distribution of the small islands allotted to the seven
larger islands, end by • public amine Sapiemsa was aggre-
gated to Z sate, *ad Carve to Cerigo. They have ever mince
been considered by Itneish governments es Imian islands,
planed under the protection of England, and it is
well known that Eeglisli officers quartered in Cerigo
have trequently visited them, and always acneel as it tb.y
Woofed to Eng'and. The li6itatisa of Greece was specifi-
cally made by ti e protocol of 1530. The whole frontier of
Green wee settled by that protocol, by a fine on the mao,
sad by words. It deme-ibed it as from sea to sea, but tLe
islands were eauxerated, and well koown, but the enuenerse
don did not include Cervi' 'such lees /helical. It was
therefore impossible that the public acts of Greece included
those islands, and if the Greek government took
possession of them, it wee dear that it was they
that had Intruded upon the lonian state, and not the British
government. (Hear, beer.) That question, however, did
not form part of our demands. It wasteparate, a-4 remains
open to free discus-inn between Greece and England, and
England, France, and Rue-ice, who are undoubted entitled
to he heard on the subject. As regarded the government of
Rursta, it appear. by a dispatch of Client Neeselrode, that
they were aware of all this, because I mentioned it
to Benno*. The Greek government committed en
act of pomess:on, which they never committed before. Oae
of thew baits, driv n by mese of weather, liberated
convicts oa the island, and acted as if it was a Greek tend
tory. It benne Leeman to demand an explanation, but it
WWI not a matte, which required the employmeat of force.
I now name to the wider wage—(tsar, Iner)—which has
hems taken by the right hoe. hereon who spoke last night.
Tom right too. heavyset took the proper view, I think, of
the qu's'ion before the house, because the 'violation does
not confine itself to or.. particular set of her Majesty's go-
TIMIIIIII,III regardicg foreign affairs, but dies involve and
neon considerations of all those o pin to which the right
hon. heroism referred. I agree, however, with those
who have said t :at the revelation does not involve
Retire approval of everything that has been done,
because it could henry be exp:ated that mien with different
ialonnation and different views, not knowing in all cues the
preese grounds upon which th- government act or the prin-
ciples whi.th guide their conduct, would implicitly approve
of every met of that government; but l admit that the right
boa. baronet was justified in taking the larger rug* welds
the resole:lon op-ned to his view. He must, at the same
time, allow mew set him right as to the first point on which
he touched. He stated, what is no doubt true, that when he
was a m umber of Lor 1 Grey's &Melina ration, he concurred
with me ir. many acts el tontine policy which involved snore
iuterpesition in other countries. The right hon. bsronct
instanced the e egotiations regardieg Belgium and its separe-
ti n from HolltieJ, and he dad image to the views which
guided the 'overcoming of that day, believir g with them that
the independence of Belgium would conduce to the peace of
Europe. Bet he said that that was a different case, bonus.•
every step of that imp:hails wee teken with the concur-
rence of the is h4e lye powers who were parties to it. He
mid, to be sure, that geese things were done that
went beyond the mere neootiation such as the
siege of Antwerp, and one laying an embargo upon Dutch
vessels. (" Hear," and a laugh.) The Agin hon. baronet
said that in then steps he cmscorred ; but were they taken
with the full encerrence of all the five powers? (Lend
cheering.) Wits these measures of such a description that
they rendered it quits impoesible that the friendly relati nis
of this country cou'd be disturbed thereby ? The right hon.
baronet must recollect that Austria. Mode, and Prussia
dissented from that nieuure—(cheers)— that they protested
against it, and absolutely withdrew for a time from the
cooference—(chen)—and that Prussia wee even collect.
ing an army ca the banks of the Meng, ant that
sh• not only sent a form to the siege of
Antwerp, bet bad retirees, if menesary, in the course of
that operation. (Cheers.) Memory out of *Mee is not
always very good—(laughter)—bet, as the mistake in this
intents is of importence, especially as upon the par-
ticular question which has ban determined in another plate,
I feel it to be 118, duty to cornet it. If ever there
was an experiment that fully and completely succeeded, the
experiment of erecting Belgium into a separate state was
that successful exit, want. (Cheers.) Why, in times
when all the other countries on the continent of Europe
have been convulsed from top to bottom, Belgium
has remained quiet ; the people have shown the
greatest attachment to their sovereign, the sovereign
the greatest confidence and love of his people. The people
I have made advances in industry and in the arts, in every
qualification that distinguished social and civilised etates,
that reflect the greatest honour upon this Belgian people ;
and they have moreover sequined a spirit and a sentiment of
' nationality which entitles them to the respect of every other
country in Europe. (('heers.) Well, I say then, the: se
fir ai we were concerned in effecting that arHlTerneht,
think that is a case to which we can refer with pride
and satisfaction, and can justly claim the approbation of
parliament and of the country. (Cheers.) It was not alto-
gather without difficulty, not only in other countries, but at
home—it was not altogether without opposition that we were
able to carry that negotiation to • suects,ful issue. Well
then, sir, the right hon. gentleman says that he was also a
party to another operation which alio ddlered in some degree
from pore and mere diplomatic intervention in the Whin of
Portugal in the treaty of 1834. Well, sir, what wee teat
treaty ? We have been accused, I has• been accused, esp..
daily of running a muck throughout Boron, interfering
here and there in the internal affairs of all countries: and I
presume, from the general tenor of the speech of the right
hon. gentlemen, that it Le on that tendency, to interfere in
the affain of other contrite, at least, that and ether things,
that he founds his disopprottatioa of the conduct of foreign
affairs under my management, as the organ of the govern
sent. Well, sir, a question arose in Portugal between the
rival claims of Donna Mane, represented by her father, Don
Pedro and Don Miguel, her uncle. It did not much signify to
England, is the abstract, whether this young queen was t•
be sovereign of Portuoal, sad whether Loa Miguel, who
was actually in poseession, should resole on the throne.
We looked at the queston not as between one sovereign and
the other, het as between absolute government on the one
hand, and cons*itutional government on the other (Chem,)
And you will say, what interest have we in that? Why,
pined facia, when, we might have had a selfish interest
in linear of despotism; beaten it is manifest that if we
wanted to nowise indigene over a country, we should
be IBM likely to have an influence where V,*
government resided in a court and in a cabinet
than where the government was vested is an assembly repro
seating the patios. But we scorned to assert that int- red
in Portugal. We knew that by supporting the cause of the
constitution that particular influence would cease, but we
found that we should reap other advantages which would
more than counts/P*lam' any disadvantages arising from
that source. We knew that the prosperity of Portugal, the
cession of conflicts which had so long prevailed and kept
down Portugal in the smile of natims,—we knew that
the beat chance of enie( a stop to URN evils,
and of de nimbi' the reesenees and prosperity of
Portage) would be, is anodes to her the inestimable ed-
emas's"' of a free constitution. And therefore thinking as
we did, that right was m the side of the party with whom
waived the constitutionel limner, we and the tight hon
barman with us, supported that muse, and we concluded a
treaty between England, Franee, Spain, and Pottage!, by
meats of which, through the tzertioe of force, Doa Miguel
was le be expelled, and Dana Marta was to be seated es
the throne of Portugal. I think that coarse
was perfectly wise and defensible, and I think

the right hen. 1011•18' leas Miffed to share with
olle--(ebeells)-461noise nem above ell marrow-
Waded prejaMee. nettilanhig fa that sit a forcible la-
terfarease ler In pipes of shim Postage' the Mesas.
tef • Mr pleffilement. But then I Wallbe told
that it did MN stimlasa. I *ball be reminded tint as late es
1847 thou lean smother hearreetien I. Pores/el, and
mother igniffisamee, me Y it were fainted in the opeosita
animas& New a
ass of mamma sew ma morose
that when pen pleat free lowitatbas la • soil is
whisk Mee Mu hitherto grows, that they do
at ma Main their fall growth, sad bear their
atom* 61111. IS take. time to educate Ise* for the well.
adminiamillea of temusentative government. (Hear) It
tikes tine to reeenale In puma to submit themselves
to the natioal of • ',penman* goverement—(Hear)—
sad la the welter stages el emstitational experience we find
cm the tme Mod that the ropmestadves of the people de
not bring etiflicieat moderation, and sense, and judgment in
the extents' of their females.; sad, is des coke, had,
that the seaman of the ~renames see too jealous
of the restraints imposed urea tau, and are eon-
Manly striving either til elude those restraints or to break
thus. Now, the fauit el these who are so woad of
Washing me either hero, in this einatry, ot in
other onatries, is that they always_ try to bring
every question to • menu* matter. (Load skies.) It
they want to oppose the policy of England, they say, " let
u get rid of the mu who happens tote the organ of that
Oahu." Why, It is like shooting • plantain As long as
the English people we animated with the e; iris and opinions
they express you may knock down twenty foreign ministers,
one aster the other ; but you may depend upon it
none will occupy his place who does not act
consistently with their feelings. (Loud chem.)
W.ll, then, whim it fells to my duty in the
performance of lay husetioes to oppose the policy of a go-
verament, it is said, " That is all oat of spite to this man
r the other—a mere petty spite 'gauss lb. man that makes
yew differ from that policy." Aad so the right hon. bonnet
says, "Your interference in Portugal Was not for the benefit
of the government, bat to get rid of Costa Cabral Cuts
Cabral Is sow minister, and thetefere your Interference bar
been of no ue." Now, whether Coils Cabral or any
other man is the Minister of Portugal, we fiat
at that meant, when party war against party,
when different classes had been in arms spawn each other,
that to make the head of • faction, like Costa Cabral, mien-
tar of that country, would have bees to cease the recom-
mencement of civil war, and we excluded him for a time, not
for ever. Till the Cones could meet, we excluded the two
cleaning pertly', Costa Cabral, on the out hand, and those
who were opposed to him on the other. And, therefore, I
cannot admit the triumph which the sight honour-
able baronet thinks he obtained at my expense by
bustiag that Costa Cabral, in spite of our inter-
ferences in 1847, was still mini .ter of PortugaL
Then we some to Spain. With rapid to Spain, it is
perfectly true that the right hon. baronet was not in
office when the additioaal articles of 183.5—additional to
the treaty of 1834—were agreed to. Bat what was the
treaty of 1834? The object of it was to impel from the
Penman not Don Wiped, but DontCarloe, who was at that
time at the head of troops In Spain, and, if Dan Miguel bed
succeeded in Portugal, he was to have gives him his
assisouce to support him. Da Carlos hung come
here and returned to Spain, civil war began, and
the additional article. of 1836 were coneledia for the
purpoes of giving to the Queen of Spain amistaaee, in order
to enable her to maintain her ground and expel Don Carla
from Spain. Now, this was a owe txactly similar to the one
in 1840. We had no totem; in the abstract, whether the
Queen of Spain should remain on the thrice or whether
Da Cane should succeed to it. If nothing else had been
at stake, that e as • question in which the government of Eat
land would not have thought proper to interfere. Q oest ions of
succession have been autos:son which other countries have
concerned nominee, but only when it was their Latina to
do so. Bat it was in Spaa, as in Pcitugal, • question be
twee& • constitutional government sad a &specie govern-
ment ; and with regard to Spain as with regard to Portugal
we thought that the Menus of England, in • commercial
as well as in a ponied point of view, would be benefited by
the establohnont of a constitutional government. If we
have one interest more than another with regard to Spain it
is that Spain should he indepoodent—that Buis should be
Spanish, that 8,4411 should be for Spaniards, is the mail, that
should be applied in our policy towatch Spain. Injury has
'risen to Lois comtry.from Spain beteg under the influence
of other nation,. It is our interest, when we are at war with
another power, that we should not oa that august,. and
without any quarrel, be at war with Spain also. It is to
oar advantage when we have no cause of hostility with
Spain, and She nose with um. that ear peaceful re
lotions should not be suspended, and we thine
we are more likely to attain that result by a govern-
ment controlled by a representative assembly than
from • goveramentpurely arbitrary. Therefore we unveil',
epos grounds of policy. independent of those general watt.
mats animating the people of this country at that time, that
it was for oar interest to take put old+ Queen Isabella.
Well, that policy la weeded ; the Carlist NUN failed, and the
' muse of the constitution prevailed ; and though General
&seems is minister of Spain, I cannot see in that
any defect in the policy of England. General
Narvata is minister of Inas, but the constitution
is la torn, and tho (anti Anion has of late been
' much more strictly observed than it had been at period, to
which the right boo. baronet glided. Now the right hon.
Want finds malt with • certain communication which in
1848, after • champs of government, 1 made to Sir, then Mr.,
Henry Butner is Spain, and the right hon. baronet Ink
" Now this is as example not only of the interference of the
noble lord, but of the manner and tone in which he inter-
feres." With regard to the manner and fonn, the noble
lord read • despatch from Lord Abardees to 13. r Ed-
woad Lyons, dated December, 1845, lecturing the Creek
government in the most unmeasured terms fur the down.
sal of General Church, ant the appointment of General
Grin. Low! Palmerston then went oa to say,
But the right hon. baronet says this affair of Spain
was of long duration, and of disastrous coca queens ; N-
unes from it followed events involving matters regarding
another country besides Spain—France; and that from the
question about the Spanish marriages arose differences be-
tween the two guveramen's, and between two men in those
governments, which, according to the right Lon. baronet, led
to the overthrow of the French monarchy. Here again
comes that fancy for narrowing great an : national questions
down to the smallest of personal (lantana.. It is said
that it was my dislike of M. Gant, arising out of the
onto:rums cd his adminittratioo, which overthrew the
throne of France. (Hear, hear.) What will the French
nation say, that highaisded and spirited entice, full of
sense of their own dignity and vane, when they hear it'
stated in the Britieh house of parliament that it was in
the power of a British minister to overthrow their govern-
meat ? (Hear,heer.) Why, air, it is a parody upon the
French nation to suppose that personal dislike on the part
of any foreigner ti one of their ministers could hays that
effect. They aro a brave, a generous, • noble-minded
people; and if they thought that • knot of foreign com-
vitiators were caballing against ens of their ministers—
(loud cheers)—and for no other reason than that he
thought he had promoted the interests of his own
country—Omar, hear)—and if, moreover, they thought
that that knot of foreign cony:rotors had c ikljutors in their
own lied--(ltesr, hoar,)—l say that the French, who are •
b-ave, noble, and spirited pupa, would scorn to he thus led,
and would only cling thecae** to and prows the more, the
man against whom such attacks were made. (Hear, bear.)
Therefore, I say that it the French had thought that LOT any
English minister, wanted to overthrow M. Ciaixot, so far
from that accomplishing its purpose, it would have rendered
him stronger andemon firm to the post he occupied. (Hear,
hear.) Still, I must say, that, both in that country and
elsewhere, it might have been better if statesman had read
the proper lemon from events that have happened. We have
nevertheless a difference with the government of
France with rigged to those transaction.. I do
not wi-h to re-open questions gone by. 1 do not wish to
remind the house or the country of the grounds of complaint
we may have had—justly, I think—against those no longer
in power. (Hear.) But taking this matter as it io, and
selecting it from the long list of item preferred against me,
I must say in my own detente that that dissatisfaction was
not groundhog,. I must say, judging from communications
that were nude to me by the nob:a individual whom I
butzetcleil in the ogles I itdm hold —judglog by di. state-
meats
which I had from his month in that interview which
always takes place between the secretary of state who goes
oat and the Heronry of state who comes in—that promises
were broken in regard to serials matters, which had been
made, not only to ministers, bat which had been made
between higher per,onageo—(bear)—promises which had
n yet, that 1 am aware of, been broken in the
history of Europe. (Hear, hear.) There fore I most
be allowed to say that if we did feel dissuisfactioa
at the events connected with the Spanish marriages,
dissatisfaotion was just; upon every ground of national
interest and national honour, we were entitled and bound to
express it. I must add that I think the policy we have
pursued in regard to Fran is a policy consistent with the
interims of the country, characterised by those principles
which the hon. and learned gentleman thinks ought to
govern the foreign policy of the country, sad calculated,
eminently calculated, to preserve, as it has preserved, the
peace of Europe. I think that our prompt acknowledgment
of this government established in France, the friendly
relations which we maintained with that government under
the sweeseive chiefs by whom it has been administered,
show that we are animated by • friendly feeling towards the
French nation, and that we consider the maintenance of
friendly 'elation with that nation as not only con-want
with and e 3nd uci re to the best inures... of
both couutrios, but as forming a firm foundation fur the
mainteuance of the peace of Europe. (Hear, hear.)
Leaving the fertile plains of Franos, I am taken
to the mountains of Switsrland, as • plies
where I have to render • stricter and more difficult anoint.
The charge against me there Is founded upon a book of
Monsieur d'Heuseonville, in which be reports conversa-
tions between individuals, who little supposed at the time
thit what they were
saying would ever form the ground of
suc.h •serioue scene Mon as is now made. The charge, as
far es l recollect, is, that in July 1 declined a proposal of
the Due de liroglie to mediate between the two parties then
coot:goading in Switzerland ; that I changed my opinion In
November and agreed to mediate ; that I purposely delayed
the mediation in onto to defeat it ; and that, while I was
sending instructions to our representatives In Suits, thud
offering negotiations, I was privately directing them to singe
es the event' of the war, so that the mediation might 031110
to an end. I think that was the substance of the statement.
To the first of those awasations I plead entirely guilty—
that is to say, that when the mediation was first
proposed, it did not seem to me to be • ease in which this
Nanny was called upon to mediate. The dispute anew be-
tween different portions of the cantons of Switzerland.
The seven peculiarly catholic cantons mode a Sooderband—
a aunt* hued, arid the other part of the canters arranged
theme. lees in • different segregation, the immediate point
at issue being that the majority of the cantons required Sh°

lalaceit, Is "thdd tie 3dthil& Wilke law* tams& be de I
so. There were oche wBegee quilling. bee that wee the
retasad inmeetheae Melia% end It wee Maly that this'
in= ef opinion wrath lied to ea appeal to wads; The
malerity resteeded, tad I thintliroltl, that this
bond was incentletent with the of the met lir :et
federation, and that gonseques they were entitled le pat
It down bj lens et amt. Oa the 75th of October, I wren
a deptfsh to Mx Peel. be. elated ereffaino, whisk I
alrusay Wei g 11 and I read it in eras r tie thew
what wed Ikea M the goverment as to the civil wet
thin ea the pith ' keg oat is Swilserland, and • meet
ei
few days before It
break
set, sad in corder to ask the
house how it would be consistent with the *Males
expressed to Mr. Peel, sad which he was In-
stnieted to express to M. °umbers, the president
of the diet, is reported by M. D'Hausemeeille.
That deer/etch was to the east that a civil war was as the
eve of breaking out between different sectious of the Swim
nadirs, and as civil war wee the greatest calamity that Gould
befall a wine great respensibility would rest en these who,
without an onnulleg nemesity, would take the ant step to
set Bow. The sent evil would be the too probable (surfer-
ism of forage powers. The Vorort wee also tad to lams-'
late the ghettoes of lesenelp end Ware, whether from
the character of the people of the seven Can-
tors, it was not doubthal whether they would
ruccoed, and, eves if they did, whether it was not proba-
ble that foreign powers would he called in, who would
gin more effectual aid to the Sonderbued, and, Use, whe-
ther they would then remain la the same relative position
towards foreign lemon which they now occupied. Seek was
the sentence of the despatch ; and I went on to say " that
the beaten party awes s gets the wont of it." (Leughter.)
I mean not for the moment, but permanently. I added that
it was for the Vorort to take them thiege into their
coneideratioo, gad that I should rejoice if they abstained
from a Doane so replete with hazard and desire to Switzer-
land. I desired that this despatch should be confidentially
read to M. Ocheenbein, which was prompted by the friendly
interest which her Melones government took in the affairs
of Switzerland. (Laughter.) That is the despatch of the
29th of October, sad on the 4th of November it was read
by Mr. Peel to It. Oehmethele. M. °Amebae
replied that civil war was a great calamity, but that the
challenge was thrown down by the Sonderbund; sad he
showed various reasons why it was impossible for the Vorort
to pursue any other coon* than that which they bad already
pursued. That took place ea the 4th of November. On the
6th of November the Due de Broglie communicated to me a
despatch, which is also to be band is the blue book ; bat
hon. gentlemen, I am sorry to say, refer getting their
diaconate from pamphlets and foreign newspapers to getting
them out of the blue book. (Cheers.) This despatch was
from M. Gain; and it proposed a measure which was to be
adopted by the an great powers for the purpose of petting
an sod to the evil war in Switzerland. I have peen blamed
for not at once somptiag that proposal, end fur delaying till
the 16th of Nov., knave* it Is said that some other aliens-
ties might have nee eons to without so long a delay. Now,
what was the proposal made 1 It was proposed that
the five great powers should maks a collective declaration
declaring that they would approve and support the ar-
bitration of the Pope as regarded the religious question then
pending in Switzerland," that religious question being whe-
ther the Jesuits should be withdrawn or not. (Hear, Sear.)
The Sonderbund would be glad to accept the arbitration of
the Pope, who of °ours' would decide in their favour, but
the majority would never have accepted his ar-
bitration feeling persuaded that he could not be
considered an impartial authority on a matter
of the sort. (Hear, bear.) The nest part of
the proposition was that the settlement of the politi-
cal question should be referred to the flee power. ; th- 1 for
this purpose a conference should be assembled in some tows
in Switzerland, to which the 22 cantons were invited to i
mod each a deputy for the purpose of examining and deter-'I
mining upon two thieve—first, upon the means of mantic-
, time, and then to see what medications could he
made in the federal pact. The despatch goes on to uy :
I "We propose fortnally•to invite the belligerent parties to
' cease war, making them at the same time to understand that
if they refuse our propositioo, and should persist in the w.r,
we should consider the Confederacy as no longerieziatinp,
and our engagements towards the Confederacy rescinded,'
and should take council with a view to decisive proceedings."
(Cheers) Now, in the first place, we felt that theproposition
of the arbitration of the Pops was certain of
being rejected, and that the proposition for a revision of the
federal pact would not be accepted, because the government
of Switzerland would claim for themselves the right of
mating changes in the federal pact. (Haar, hear.) We
could not, therefore, agree to the declaration that if they
refused the proposition so presented to them the confede-
racy was no longer to be considered as editing,
a confederacy existing by limy, and acknowledged
by all the powers of Europe. (Hear, hear.) The
proposition, in other words amounted to this,
that if the Vorort refused our dictation, they should be
compelled by force of arms to accept it. (Cheers.) That
was the proposition to be made to the Swiss government by
those who had recognised the neutrality of the Swiss terri-
tory and guaranteed that its independence she old be re-
spected. (Cbeen.) It was a proposition, which, if we
could not =set of it, required time to wander what
counter-propoeition should be made on our part. (Hear )
Ia the despatch of the 16th of November we made
our proposition, which was to refer the matter to the tire
powers, unaccompanied by asp threat of consequence in
I case of refusal—whether it was accepted or rej,red.
(Cheers.) The basis of my proposition was this, that the
Jesuits should be withdrawn, either by the act of the Swiss
government, or by consent te be obtained from the Pope, and
that the Diet, on the withdrawal of the Jesuits,should take
no aggressive steps against the minority, -and upon the
assurance of that, that the Sonderbond should dissolve its
separate Irons as being at variance wish the federal parka
ment. That I considered was a just and fair proposition—
(cheers.) —and in accordance with the principles which
ought to regulate the foreign policy of thin country. (Hoar.)
Some comesuaications passed between the French govern-
ment and our government respecting the acceptance of this
preposition, the details required to be considered by M. de
Broglie and myself. And it was not tilt the 26th of N iv.
that we agreed upon an identical sot.—not to be signs d in
London, as neon. ously stated—but to be presented in the
same words us the Vorort through the agents of the two
governments in Suite 'Fiend Twat was the sgreemsnt on
the 26:h of Nov., but in the mean time—on tar 16th—I
, received a communicatioa from the consul al of Silt-
:milked here founded on a declaration of the Vorort of the G.h
which left small hope of the success of the mediation, for it
was (timidly declared, on the pert of the majority, that they
would admit of no foreign intervention in their dispute
with the Sonderbund. Nevertheless, we thought it our
duty to proceed with the mediation. The note was sent,
not to Mr. Peel, but to Sir S. Canning l's present, who was
then going elsewhere, end who had to pass through
Switzerland. He was told to take Paris on his way in
order to communicate with the French government; but he
was informed then that the civil war was over, and that there
was no we in presenting the note. In the meesitiess pewee-
ignitions were going on between the English and French
governments. The right hon. gentleman says that the note
was not approved of by the courts of Vienna, Berlin, and 81.
Peterahurgh, and the bon. gentleman (Mr. Cochrane) nye
that Mr. Peel declared that rather than present such a
note on the part of his government he would resign,
because it was at variants with his former instructions.
I am at a loss to understand how Mr. Peel could possibly
have told any such thing to M. Bois Ls Cousins, because
our note left the mediation to be accepted or rejected as the
parties chose, because it left no alternative of force ; beans*
it went on the basis of a settlement of the Jesuit question
according to the wishes of the majority ; because it went on
the basis of a settlement of the dispute with the Sonderbund to
the satisfaction of the Sonderbund ; because it went on the
...

basis of • cmnplete reconciliation between the two partial.
(Cheers.) It was impossible for Mr. Peel to say that such
a note was at variance with the despatch of the 29th of
Oetuber. He therefore wholly disbelieved that the statement
was made, (Hear.) And the only possible explanation he
could give of the matter was, that If Mr. Peel made any
statement of the kind, it must have reference to
the original French note. (Hear, hear.) Now, es to the
assertion that Mr. Peel sent word to General Dufour to
hasten operation before the mediation could arrive, he
wholly disbeinved. I Hear, heir.; nii i ceo say is, usat I
never wrote a word either publicly or privately to justify
any such proceeding on his part. (Cheers.) Nei-
ther had Mr. Pimperly, as stated, made any com-
munication of the sort or kind. (Hear.) Now I must
say that the way in which this admission was exttacted from
Mr. Peel does net tend to inspire me with confident* in this
matter. (Cheep.) Here are two ministers of two great
powers taking advantage of the intimacy and intercourse
which subsisted between them and the diplomatic agent of
another country, and pursuing him as • couple of grey-
hounds would do • hare, in order to double
it (cheering) ;--endeavouring to extract from him
by stratagem en admission of something supposed to have
been previously done. (Cheers.) I must Illy that ikis per-
teetly conceivable that Mr. Peel, supposing that they were
practising upon him, gave them as good se they brought
—(laughter)—and that he mystified them. as they
ought to entrap him. (Cheers and laughter.) And
he might have said this in joke, to let them
see that he was as sharp u they were. (Cheers.)
I have now travelled down the Alps, and I came
to the smiling plains of Lombardy. (Laughter.) I
hays been amused of injustice to the Austrian Rivets-
meat by withholding a certain despatch from Prince Metter-
nich to Count Collared°, which cuntsined a denial of the
intentions attributed to the Austrian government in Italy.
But things were going on in Italy at the time which did not
dispose us to attach to that despatch all the value that it ,
whops deserved. (Cheers.) For the occupation of Fer-
rara, and the threat of the occupation of Tuscany if the
Tuscan goverament made certain changes in the National
Guard, did not leod us to attach decisive value to the WU
mation we received. (Cheers.) But if we bad not commu-
nicated
this deepateb, why did not Count Collared°
draw our attention to it, suing that all the
time between February and August intervened from
the time when the despatch was easununicated and the time
it was moved for in the House of Lords. (Cheers.) IN,
Count Colleted° was asleep upon the matter, why did not
Prince Metternich call our attention to it ? (Hem,
bear, hear.) But then we are accused of being
abettors, and supporters, and encouragers of revolution.
It had been the tate of all men who educate temporary
ohmic, end conditional improvements to be desigaated es
the champions of revolution. (.. Hear, hear," and lend
cheers) It is the easiest way of patting them down. It is
the established doctrine of those who are the advocates of
arbitrary peerMaielite never to mind the teal revolutionists;
them dangerous men were the moderate reformers.
(Cheers.) The beat way of settles the world against him
le by ailing him a revolutionist. (Cheers.) It w.s
sot to make revolutionists that Lord Blinn) went out
to Italy. He went out there to afford our mediation
between Naples and Sicily. I will now first come to the
war in Lombardy. 1 do not mean to say that there was

eaLateeleei !WPM, ite intamational treatise, la the
la of neigtetwertag territories. It may be wrong in
Ibis ease, bet I think that there are WMp and
esadisratleste erble may explain Um moduse which
ow at bet eight 'moot Natty, sad same imailean.
The Ambles gemennisat bad through their ambemeder
asked ess kr mar mediation betweea the Alleviate mega-
meat awl the people of Lombard . Is the mama ef this
tbe maltemoder was a to propose se the
=Nett arraagesasat, that Austria should retinae all
ellibt mid this M Lombardy. The Austria's coatemplated
dui chat wield be the verall, bet are we to blame Ar
11=that that was an arrangement that was not amigo.
te intereele of that Wien, and that it would sot he
aeseptable. The reposel was put before Lord Minter, •
and his inediadoa was looked for, but he declined it
unless it was peril& te sake on arreagemeat which would
be redisfootory. It was then said that we were guilty of a
violates of geed faith to Rumhx Bat the proposal which
Rs land wee ready to monde to, wee one whisk was made
by Austria beteelf, and was esadusive to the interests of
Austria. Then Lord Hint* was again seat to ; and mew it
I s said that he seas expected to make this moieties. It was
said that be was desieese of improviag the administrative
institutions of the country. He found great difficulty,
both laterally and externally, to overcome, las
carrying out that object. We were told that the
Mate of the law did not allow one sending
each a minister, bat that It would be acceptable if we could
wad oat a acafidential egest, a man of rank, In the am&
loam of her Majesty's government, and conversaat with
the institutions of this country, and of great diplomatic
experimme. Now, If words had to be invented to depict the
aerometer of Lord Minot", none could de It with greater
exactness than the terms which he had just used. Lord
Mint west out, and he did not do so for the purpose of
delis, • free constitution, because he felt that you mat,
if you wish to obtain one, first begin by giving a parlia-
ment bolero yea arrange the administration of justice fic such
a meaner as to prepare men for tektite any part in a eon-
stinatiosall pventraent, Lord Minto went out to Turin, to
Norms. and them to Rome. He advised nothing bat
administrative reforms, and so far as they were adopted
they bore their fruit., and if what he had advised and no-
thiag more had been done, Italy would have derived great
advantage therefrom, and the government would have re-
mised great additional strength thereby. (Chem.) But
whims he was at Rome there happened the civil war be-
twigs Sicily and the government of Naples. Both parties
And to Mr. Napier, the enarge d'Affaires, for
at
. What did he do with regard to the
goverment of Naples ? He said, " I will go to Sicily sad
try to settle matter. if you promise me that you will make
proposals that will be acceptable to Sicily. If you decline to
do that my interference will boot no avail." Tne Neapolitan
government could not make him that promise. The Sicilian
goverameat then mimed a wish that he would try and
intercede with Naples the same result Grow Lord Minto
was then 'eked to go to Sicily to make an arrangement,
and he said, " I will go with all my heart if I
think I eon be of any use, but I know something
of Sicily, and If attain terns, an not made my
interference will be of no avail." Several hours
were spent In council In the discussion of the arrangement,,
and this is what is called the uncalled-for interference of
Lord Mint*. (Cheers.) It wee sold, therefore, that he went
over not to be of service to the Neepolitan government, but
to separate Sicily fr on Naples. He had made the condition
that the terms which he had been authorised to propose
should not be made known at Palermo before his arrival.
Ile attached great importance to his being the first to
bring the annousueiment of these propositions, but when he
arrived there he found that the Neapolitan government
sent private messengers conveying the terms of the negotia-
tion that they were about to enter into, and which he was
bringing, sad also that the French revolution had taken
place, which in itself had determined Sicily to come to war
sooner than ogres to the arrangements propoud, and the
people had determined to become a separate state. (Cheer..)
When he was told that that was their resolution, he told
them that he came there on the part of Naples and of Sicily,
and that unless he was received as the representative of the
government of tie Two Siciliee he would not land. His
good offices were, however, of no avail. Now, I will ask
were these ants revolutionary. (Cheers.) And "'hero is
the ground for saying that a friendly part was not per-
formed ? Then it wee expected that they should acknow-
ledge the Duke of Genoa as king, hut on what ground was
it supposed that we should wish that the Sicilians would
approve of it ? At that time it was supposed that the King
of Naples would not be able to subdue the Sicilians. That
was the opinion, but it was wrong. It was thought that
the Sicilians would be enabled to declare themselves a re-
public. If we look to the interest of Naples, and
the internal tranquillity of the Neapolitan domi-
nion, it was better that she should remain a
monarchial form of government. The Neapolitan govern.
ment was not insensible to all these considerations. Lord
Minto, on that occasion, gave advice which was calculated
to prevent a revolution ; our policy sat the policy of improve.
meat, and was one which did no: deserve conounnation, but
was in accordance with that course of conduct which it was
our duty to pursue. (Cheers.) We are told further that if
it had not been for the war in Lombardy this indispensable
interfereace of Russia would not have token place. It is my
opinion that if the indispensible assistance of Russia was not
called in in the Hungarian war it would have terminated dif-
ferently. We are not at all to be blamed se regards the result
of the conflict in Hungary. (Cheers.) With regard to toe
question which arose with regard to Turkey, we have been
also blamed, not for the politic course which we put
sued, but for the moral and material assistance which
we afforded. I have an b We recollection
of the matter, and I know that on that occasion
all differences of parties were merged in the high national
feeling, and all felt that the government would not be just i•
lied In the rejection of the appeal that had been nude. It
had been asked why we were not content to send out our
despatches, and not to send a fleet. That would have
been a very unwise and imprudent course of pro-
ceeding, ac a long interval would have taken
plate between the day of our despatches reaching St.
Petersburg and the time of lessen beiug received.
The interval hevened be•ween the Gth and 26th of the
month. Russia and Austra had used the most virulent lan-
go age ; they had demand,..i in the most peremptory man-
ner the ioimeotive surrender of the Hungarians. They said,
ualess we receive an answer without delay we shall hasten
our operations ; in shoot, they plainly intimated that a re.
fusel might be followed by a war by Russia and Austria
against Turkey. Our government bat no mesas of knowing
whetter these agents were authorised by their government.,
and it was impossible that between the day when our
despatches should go to St. Petersburg and Vienna',
and the day it became necessary to send a fleet, that the
fleet would reach the place till after the return of the
answer. We did that which men of prudence, meaning
to do that which they professed, would have due. It is I
said we made a threat against Russia and Austria. I
utterly deny that in sending the fleet there was a threat
against either. The fleet at the Dardanelles was not a
threat against Austria. If it had gone to the Adriatic, it
might have been considered as a threat. If a fleet was
la the Mediterranean, it would not be a threat
against Russia. If a fleet was off the Dardanelles,
it would only he a signal of support of
the Sultan, if he should be attacked and threatened. It was
a message purely of defence, and not a measure of offence.
Thou we are accused of violating the treaty of Unkiar, She-
lessi," and the treaty of London of Juiy, 184 f, between the
live powers and Russia, with regard to the passage of the
Dardanelles. The way in which we are accused of violating
the treaty is by ordering Sir William Parker to enter the
Dardanelles By the treaty of 1809 between England and
Turkey, we bound ourselves to respect the ancient rule of the
Turkish empire, by which, whilst Turkey was at peace,
the Straits of the Boephoeas and the Dardanelles are
closed against ships of war. But it was not
until 1841 that the engagement was taken by all the other
powers. I concur entirely with the right hon. baronet in
thinking that that was a wise and rlitic arrangement, evi-
dently advantageous to Turkey. in the first place, and con-
ducive to the peace of Europe in the second place ; because
whoa we consider how easy it would be (if these narrow
straits were to be open to the armed ships of ether countries
in time of peace) for a maritime power, when she bad
a dismission with the Turkish government to sup-
pon ire Bl ndly representation of her minister
by the accidental visit of a large fleet, whether
from the Black flea or the Mediterranean. I think it is
essential for the independence of the Porte that no other
power should be permitted to enter those strait.. It so
happen. that a: the entrance of the Dardanelles then I. a
large wide bay bitumen the outer castles and the inner
castles, whore the channel is narrow and continuous. In
the laser castle resides the Shah and the Consuls, and there
tonsure taken by regulations established in 1843. It was stated
in general terms that foreign ships of war and merchantmen
should be admitted to this bay for safe anchorage, and there
wait until they should know whether they would
Im allowed to proceed further. When our fleet arrived
on the coast of Asia on the mainland, the Turkish govern-
ment gave the information that in certain states of the wind
and weather it was nut safe for large vessels, and ought to
send authority to the Shah to admit our fleet into the outer
anchorage for safe riding. This was oommunicated to Sir
William Parker and the Consul at the Dardanelles, and a
week after the fleet arrived there and there remained. lint
I had written to Sir Stratford Causing to say that he should
take especial care that the fleet should not enter the Straits
of the Dernanslles; and Sir Stratford Canning immediately
communicated to Sir William Parker informing him that
as some quest on might arise, to go as soon as you
can to some other plats,. where you can place your
fleet in a place of 'county, but do not come within the
gosiguovteehrreshasetivistsoono
made
thtedneedDerdare
pldh,easean:ttlhisteas.tipor.T.shenoclitiosottheii.oanuranaiatide.ttAetrusintrtNihvaiine
bey was not a violin in of what was intended by ths treaty.
We thought it batter to adopt the interpretation put upon it
by Russia, and we considered that henceforward the treaty
muse be considered as excluding ships of war from either of
the straits. Now, I think 1 have gnus through all the head.
of chaise which have as yet been stated. (Loud cheers.) I
think I have shown that the policy of the government in
all these transactions in repaid to what it has
been impugned has been throughout guided by those
principles which, according to the resolution of the hon. and
learned gentleman, ought to regulate the conduct of the
muumuu. of England in the management of their foreign
relations. (Cheers.) I believe and think the principles on
whisk we have acted.» those which are entertained by the
grimmest of the people. (Cheers.) I am convinced that
those principles are calculated to tend, as far as the influence
of England merbe permitted properly to be *Remind, in
, regard to the destinies of other countries, to conduce to the
1 welfare and !utopia's' of mankind, to the advancement of
civilisation, to the malateaance of peace, te the develepmeot
of the remearess and prosperity of all countries, and to do
honour to the country in which we live. (Cheers.) I de
not complain of the conduce of those who have nude this
question the means of attacking her Majesty's minister.
(Hear, hear.) The government of a great country like this

is andenbtally an object for fair and legitimate ambitious
among men of all shades dopinton. It is • noble thing to
be allowed to snide the policy and the dntinics of each a
country as this, and if it ever was en object of honourable
ambition, ft mast more than ever be so at the moment at
whisk I am speaking. (Cheers.) Whilst we have seen,
as has been stated by the right hon. baronet (Sir J.
Graham), Europe rocking from aide to side, thrones
shattered, institutions overthrown and destroyed, wises'
almost every country of Europe has been a scene of oonfiiet
whist' has deluged the lead with blood, from the Atlantic to
the Black lea, from the Baltic to the Mediterranean, this
country has presented a spectacle honowabls to the people
of England, and worthy of the admiration of the world.
We have shown that liberty is compatible with order, we
lave shown that individual freedom is reconcilable with
obedience to the law, we have shown the example of a nailsa
is which every class of society accepts with cheerfulness the
lot which Providence has assigned it, whilst at the saute
time every individual is constantly striving to raise him.
self is the steal scale, not by injustass and wrong,
not by violence and illegality, bat by persevering good con-
duct, and steady and unremitting applaation of those moral
and intellectual faculties with which his Creator has en-
dowed him. (Laud cheers.) I say, to govern such a people
as this is indeed an object worthy of the ambition of the
noblest man that lived in the land, and therefore I find no
fault with those who may have endeavoured to place them-
nine In so distinguished a position. (Hear, hear.) We
have not done anything In our foreign policy to forfeit the
confidence of the country. (Chant) I 'attend that
whether in this matter, or in that, we may lave; acted
no to the opinions of one person or snorter, and we
know by esperience that we do not find any number of per-
sons entirely agreeing on any matter, making allowances for
these differences of opinion which might fairly be ex-
p.cted amongst those who generally concur, yet I
maintain that the principle which can be traced
throughout foreign nations se the guiding rule and
directing course of our proceeiings—l say that those
principles are inch as deserve the approbation of the country.
(Chan.) I fearlessly challenge the verdict which the hones
may give on the question now before it, whether the prin-
ciples which have governed the foreign policy of the go•
moment, whoa duty it was to afford protection to our sub-
jects abroad, which we have considered the guide of our
conduct, are proper and fitting; and whether—se in the
days of the Raman, who held himself to be free from indig-
nity when be called ont, " Civis Roseanne sui "—an English.
man shall be considered as protected by the vigilant tree and
strong arm of hi, government against injustice and wrong.
(The noble lord resumed his seat amidst leud and continued
cheering )
Oa the motion of Sir J. WALSH, the debate was ad-
jouraed %moll Thursday next ; and the adjournment of the
knee followed.

aim erprefsg.