The Express.
London, England, 1850-04-10 00:00:00

WATER SUFFLY..

lap the window-2u. Re treated ea.
inano proses es that orsaara. wad
11 nibs fee the melba. Nina p
amsted. Pans houses of lees Ilea
estmeral Why am harm hf
se m" he did sat knew. Chic
re maseleeterkeas weesh=ses
Meet there was as sad te the esasseless.
Ide right hes, bind the Creme for ell da
aseedie *hie prepuldes, be metaidatalla
II bill I. de limey- with ell them exemplisse. W.
M the vied* _ of the wiadew•tax, it we 11.
-se-eedes. amid prallix .metiltoda._llll,ll4l6..
wisdom tax lad bees easdismit- smelts Wail'
maim* is that hemp. Adam mid .Ib.
eldeaties to whiten, team wee their isequality—as
el the west Wed, as thee meet fill heavier ea the
pm Ikea ea the rich. Kr. Herne—set the hes.
terealsar km Mesteue mid that ell Lew tame might
=snit desgesne, bemuse it wee easy be the
te add • per easSi sad thus a to
INK wee orisisally mull might teem* oppugn. Prom
Id* le 11111 in whisk lathe year the reasrvey
llikeandh, ihe imminat OE the window tax la-
ity
from 1,360,0001. to 1,613,0001. But the
SW
ammukable feet wee that is the put year, meted*.
the illinlell la the amber et hheems whisk had
elmsp i.. stater 114216 e tax minuted to wily 1,663,0001.
The builders ef the melrepelie, who were quite aa able is
their way as the Clisedlo- r el ttte Itukequer, having LK
Hair heads together, had entseeded in building houses me es
le evade this ifterneann tax. (Hear, hear.) Not eels woe
lunar windows shamed under the iet, bet every We is a
Wall was charged. No mss kaew whet a wild*, was
ameughter)—ead he ehelleassd hb right how.=
W Mom and the paiKe of what it
.) One smatemes -had bees °M end IT=
e lrrlsich kb seas ware ehat. umber had 'Mm
his mode for the et ventilation. If a ars
slab leek • brisk eat away, the effect would be W
Iwo* We useement apes lb dosilios. All who ked
MINI tereige cities mast have ben struck with the bet
the inhabitants ot them bad two windows to our emit is
rrsais
, and, looking at the gnat mespetition to whit& We
classes of this country were subjected, it was
ellieleme t, in many teepees, edditienal ligktile est
great value to them. It was said that as ''s
beefs was his meth, bat how could that be waif
were subiected es Unties ? It might, primp, ressmlde •
enstle is behig built with as few windows se passible, sad is
being dark hi the interior, but as regarded his right** ft Is
nepet et the windows there was no such resesbiesse.
It re aseements of 1841 had been bad, as every au
would admit that they were, they had not been altogether
wiehent their baits. It bad been said that the nesurvey
hid him* a peat many Wags to light. He admitted that
It W. end ansept the damp which It had brought to light
was the moral turpitude and the great seaman's of the win.
dow-tat. la the year aft* the ndeervey took One, a peat
agitatioa pervaded the edadsol the people of this °own with
regard to what was called sanitary reform. Lord Normanby,
Ina speech which he delivered 1. the Howe et Lords, mid
the air mast be left to its free sad sanetrained course; add.
lug that the negro huts In the West ladles were superior to
many dwellings within a few yards of the spot
when be was speaking. leamediately after that speech,
very great sanitary activity began to be displayed
is the neighbourhood of the holism of pediment.
The 'Menu of Dr. Southwood Smith would be foetid 'fall
of the horrors entailed by the window tax. Otte althea* in-
quiren had been sent down to Sunderland. The committee
did not hesitate to declare their einsaimose opinion that
blocking up windows had been the primary esme of mush
sickness and mortality. Bat Lord Normanby was not the oaly
person who took up the cause of molten reform. The aoble
lord the member far Platoons (Lord Ebrineton), who had
been so active in sewage reform, stated that light swops,
other things had a most imp -vent effect on the operations
of life. The noble lord said he could multiply the medical
evidence upon this point ad inifnitum; and he went on, and
mentioned one plan which he had adopted himself in build
-
log cottages, vie., the introduction of air from outside
through pipes of perforate d plates of sine. An unfortunate
gentleman of the name of Williams, of Peoria, in an evil
boar, was induced to follow the noble lord's advice ; he ap.
pealed against the charge of 6i. 17e. 2d. which had been
made upon him by the wean of the district, for having
opened some extra windows, and it was determined by the
Judges of the land that these plates were windows, and
this unfortnnas man had to pay for 2.5 windows instead
of 21. That had been • lesion to the rest of the inhabitants
of the country, and to the constituents of the noble lord him-
self, sad any man would Le cautions in future who endea-
voured to admit extra air into his house through perforated
plates of tine. A corrupondeece bad ensued with the com-
mi-sionen of stamps and taxes, and the result was that they
said the exemption would turn on the merit of each indi-
vidual case. Everything which he had to say had
fortunately been so much better sad by individuals who eat
opposite to him of such great celebrity and expe-
rience that he bad only to read their testi.
aunts on the subject. The noble lord then read various
testimonies to the injurieus effects of this tax upon light and
air, which nent4lized saaitary reforms ; and anticipeued the
objections to his motion based upon financial grounds, mg-
gestiag that the Oispeasiog with the African moadron, •
better administration of the Woods and F nests, and of that
portion of the public
the Exchequer, would more than indemnify the state for
the lses ef the window tax. He obeuld be much better sa-
tisfied on this subject if he saw hie bon. friends proposine
that every shilling of the public money should be paid into
the Exchequer, not merely with the seneti 4 of the Treesury,
but of the House of Commons. He had now to thank the
house for the kindness and patience with winch they bad
beard him. He trusted that these gentlemen who had lie.
tested to him, been giving their votes, would con-
sider
whether economy bad been carried to its
fullest extent before they consented to raising a
revenue on light and air, which bad been granted
by divine Providence to the inhabitants of this earth to an
unlimited extent, and which he did not Wink ought to be
the province of any government at all. It wax their
bounden duty to remove restrictions as tares they could up 4
heat and air. UI this he was satisfied, that neither this
house or any house would allow the public creditor to suffer.
If taxes were necesnry, those taxes would be raised and wil.
tingly voted by gentlemen in this house ; and therefore, with
the permission of the house, be had brought forward this
motion. The noble lord concluded with moving his resolu-
tion.
Sir DE LACY EVANS seconded the motion, and was
glad to think that the statement of the noble lord had been
so comprehensive, so able, and so teitenswerable. The 'noble
lard had pointed out a remarkable circumstance as to this
tax, that there had scarcely been any augmentation of the
revenue—that several exemptions bad been man, but that
these exemptions did not by any means bureau the revenue.
Tte motion wee framed so as to carry the exemption from
duty to houses not having mon than 12 windows, and added
many instances of the unwholesome style of building which
lied grown out of the window duties. The tax was of the
mann of a property tax, hit wee meet unequal and inlet iota
Is its indigoes.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who spoke
la se Ir. • tons of voices to be but imperfectly audible,
said that his noble friend the member for Bath bad on the
isas on a former occasion, made a most able speech
minuet of his motion, although it did not appear that
there was anything new to be said on the subject. He (the
Chaseellor of the Exchequer) would not follow his noble
hind into the irrelevant subjects be had ietroduced, as
be did not think it would be advisable to mix uo the ma.
sessweat of ths Woods end Foreste,or the propriety of paying
the whole of the se into the Ezchequer,with a discussion
as the justice and expediency of repealing the window tax.
His noble friend had taxed him with having said that
seraway road be carried no farther, and afterwards with
semi% emeiderable reductions in ee revenue. He could
eilimeelith soble friend that he had said no such thing, what
be bed maid was that great redactions to be safe must ho
dished by de sad perhaps he might have felt as
leillMidd ass P year, that it had been curled as far as
it was ash se expedient. They (the government) bad re.
Wised the alletatee year sitar year, but still be wu not
I le saip that economy might not be carried farther.
iIiVIIIIIte he must repeat, that all redactions of any
=me
.moist, to be safe most not be sudden, but of a
=.alyeessemive character. is noble friend's ob-
is*, Whim tax arose pertly from the amount of
=lll4 miffs blend seeming to suppose that those
aggrava•ien of the tax. Did his
=Me Sheerha
mss to eeetend that because the
en whom tax had pressed most grievously
poetise
the d
late years been exempted , that that made
matters worse as regarded the expeaency of the tat 1 Now,
who were the pparties who had bust relieved ? Parties car-
rying ea m nuf cture., agrkeelne• or trade. Farm build-
*mead workshops were exempt, as were also ail houses
=in earn on 's; the pursuits of productive
He faired that lei; noble friend's proposition
wee UM that weal do very little good, merely
:Minga little further the exemptdoa against which so
emeeption bad been taken. At present all houses
whit her than eight windows were exempt, and his noble
Mead permed carrying the exemption against whisk he tad
protested • little further by making twelve the minimum
taut wasbet. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did
seism We eibrinsst reason for fixing the number at twelve
imlead stela% nor would it do anneal even in these model
islidse-heessa d whisk Ws nob& friend had made a special
we Thew hewn woad be all above the exemption, as wu
@beady the am is ileasisad, where there were a great many
hams of that ilsaselylies. With respect to the question of
tesesse, tbs wesset of lan to be encountered by making 12
Ilia mininat would be, not 100,0001., but 260,0001. • but
lb set& Mead very properly thought that this was a *Jaw
easeidwaties, and mainly rested hie was os the sanitary
quads., and the reports after reports whirs le boards of
health had sent in in favour of abolition. There could be no
doubt but that those geatlenten Ind Inquired sinfully
into the e.b)eet but it MO generally band that in
Inquiries of this kind, the ormelusion new to wee that some
tax or other should be taken off. For Ilia part, he should be
most happy to remit the tax did the circumstances of the
country permit it. Kill *ebb friend was quite mistaken in
supposing that the tut praised exehtelvely on the poor. II
he would tun to his own statements as to the number of
houses is Ragland and Wales, he would find that out of
three and a half minim house three millions wen exempt
from window tax, while the ether half million were mead,
ossupled by the wealthier dame. It was rather, then, at
valiance with the het, to mart that the window-tax pressed
about enelnefeely ea the poor. But his noble friend tom.
platted also of the exemption of Ireland. (des, bear.)
He (the Chasidim of the Exchequer) should like to know
what were the general character of the dwellings of the
people of Ireland. Would Lis noble friend say, that
In usastquenee of the exemption from window-tax,
the dwellings of the poor in that country were
Bernier to 'imitate habitations 4 Enelaad 1 If his
noble friend could prove that, there would be ea aro-

Sir B. HALL gave notice that oit Friday neat be would
ash the chairman of the Me,rupolitaa Commission of Sewers
whether the COMlSiSli'letri h.eve determi,.ed upon any prin
deo of droner for that part of the metropolis north of the
Thames, sad if the mitten is re he In that river ; also. whe-
ther the rommiseiefters Wend to levy eayT eddidosal amount
of rate on the inhabi an 's of the *o; and if so whet
amount of rate in the pousd they propose to levy for tie ear.
rent year. The boo. barostet aleo gave notice that ea the
some ell he would ask tke &entity of State for the Home
Deportmeat when the report from eke Board of Health will
be presented. is order that a time may be lard for the mood
"Indio, of tolls for affording a b tter supply of water to the
meuopobs.
WINDOW-TAIL

Lord D. STUART presented a petition from 6,000 per-
awe is Matilde:me, pray lag for the repeal of the wiadow-
Sir B. HALL presented • petition from the vestry of the
parish of Bt. Pancras, to the same *feet.
Lord DUNCAN said he had • petition to present front
6.000 ichabitanta of Bath, la been of sanitary reform,
and of the 'nation which he was about to introdoes
in reference to the window tau; also petitions to the same
effect !root the inhabitants of Bath end of Deptford. The
noble lord then moved, in nemeses of notice, " That
whereas the present mode of aleilehig, levying, and collect.
beg taxes on air and light In Ragland and Scotland lathe
fetes most prejudicially with the health and sanitary midi-
time of the inhabitants of Great Britain, therefore it is
expedient that the window to: should be repealed."
He did not wish to di.parage the men tos of the
right hon. g• nilcaan, the Chanctllor of the Runnier;
but he thought that if they were itch enough to
talc., off duties on brklo and stamps, they sant alto
be rich enough to remove • partite, at lon, of
the duties on windows. There was, be; believed, only ono
trade in the massfactoring districts which was not now in
a state of prosperity, namely the glass trade. He held In his
hand two letters which bad been seat to him by person of
the highest position in the glen trade. Ore was has Mr.
Bwinharne, who stated that the repo! of the window-tax
would b. • great boon to the glass trade, which was in
such a state of uoexamolcd depression, that no houses had
escaped a very large lose of capital (or two years past. Mr.
Hartley, who was elate a great authority in the glass trade,
stated that the supply of window glue greatly esooded the
demand, the measure of Sir Robert Peel for the reduction
of the duty on had
haying immoral/ad expestation which,
unfortunately, had not bees Milked . • that though thirteen
new window gl in manufactories had been nulled into exist.
sem, many had suspended busing; and that the total loss
to the trade was upwards of 260,00 W. This was a moot
remarkable exception to the flourishing Mate of the maniac.
taring districts. N as doubted the policy of
levying any window tax at all; but, if such •
tax war to be raised,. he trusted his tht boo.
friend would attempt to rarefy the present 'lido; scale.
If the window tax was to be retained, it would be much
weer to levy it fairly and impartially on every window in
the kingdom than by the plasma sliding scale mod*, which
wend most unequally co the occupiers of small bones.
In the smaller houses—those, (or instance, in litheyetrest,
in this metropolis—the wi ,dow tax amounted to no lees •
mon than 30 per cent. urn: the rental, whereas in matey
of the lugs streets it did not amount to same than 24 per
ant. Is many of the other small streets the wiadow tax
was found to peers most unequally, to the extent sometimes
of 30, 40. and oselisian ,Uy son 60 per cent. Now, he did
think if thin tax wee to b^ petseyered in at ail, It was de
eirable that it should fill much more equally on the dif-
ferent theme than at present. la 1708 there wan no lase
than 680 000 homes cherivahle to the window tax ; be 1784
the number had declined to 498,000 ; and in 1849 it had
further decreased to 473,000. Comparing the present time
with 170 k, and embittering thi immense income which has
takes glom in the populoi.o, he could not help being street
with the small anther of houses sow chargeable to the win-
dow tax. The amen had Rose on decreasing isstan of
aagnieneios according to the inmate of the
That was pertly accounted foe by morn pertly 11:111
their meadows to node the window tax. (fieer.) Anther
mem was the number of exemptions which had taken
placa. The Hot of exemptions to this tax was perfectly
frightful. The first mayhem to this tact was that of
Ireland. The Irish imonbees cons down to the hone la
10423, and were fortune emough to persuade the Chasseellos
(lithe haoltelato Si Os day, that ht4aud use too pow to

ash. be. aeon& '. -liawthen-eresdee- 41-nea—inessare
an theft an lesde:6==. sonsity. • Ise the urn
plies, that elie seltieriey to he
eim-teelsaormarliondannalhe money ahead be m-
eanie] se falai to the pima sienagtag *ULM ai *able;
aid If, ja addition to these erne obJests, ay peas add be
propped to entourage the good;management of the property
purchased, a great advantage would beachiend. The first
of then objects, that with reference to the perfect security,
was now endeavoured to be obtained, because an advance
was only to be made to the extent of half the value of the
property. The security would *mien be perfect in
itself. In addition to that,La It was of sash • nature
that, if the Interest was anger for throe moetka,
ibtair petty was to be sold immediately for the
of the party analog the money. It had been
elmelinfted advisable that this ehould be worked out by the
Wiesiimiscen without *tram*, it into **bill, Main
Ka wee so introduced it Gould be well altered by any are
angemint between the patties thesseleasafterwards. Bat
ft was manifestly important that the inkiest should be paid
aired times, fixed pines, and without fall. The fealty of
leaving 14 polll into the Bask of Ireland seek half year wee
1.1111411111. and, * eider to secure that payment, it would be
nabilalaf heeresary for some paeans to tee it.
It was net Iblended that there should be simply one seri .
eats on one estate ; there might be • number of them,
but the while of them should not aimed half the value of
the properag. These certificates were to be similar to bills
of inehange, ad they were moreover to he transferable
taking safe 'merely to enter the same of the treaders. at thi
registry office. In order to prevent the moat from being
a man insuabnnee on the owner, the bill provided that
it should net he • debt upon hint—that he or hiegoeds would
not be able to be taken for it. In this way the various evils
wiring in Kindler cases from receivers and the Court of
Chummy would be avoided • and, in sheet, It would he a-
frame • debate's* Mich would so 11 tee fetter
restteto
owner as one of thiedssielpain. (Hear.) It was Important
foe those who purchased lead In Ireland to kaow that they
could not render that land productive, unless they
were possessed of capital to improve the property.
It might be said that a measure of this kind
would disencumber lands for the purpose of en•
eumbeting them again ; but, in sawn to this he
would earn, that it was impossible to prevent a
man at present from borrowing money to make purchase",
and that, by enabling him by this bi.l to pay off the money
borrowed by instalments, he would, in many instances, pro-
bably have that estate improve d and onineumbered in the
course of a few years. It was elm the measure must be
fee the benefit of toe great mats of the proprietors. There
wee, indeed, one oleos to whom it was an obje ct that the
land shad be depreciated in Ireland. There were many
persons who had estates there charged with heavy *cum
brumes, which they were unable to pay. If those estates
were sold under the encumbered estatescommission, it became
the interest of such persons to depreciate the land, to make
it a mere drug, to get money from other mourns, and, open
the security of the land, to bay back the estate sold from
them as au encumbered estate, and in this way to gee, them-
selves discharged from all the old encumbrances, and to be
charged only with the 'mount of the fresh purchase. This
would be • serious calamity If it existed to any considerable
extent, and he thought that the present mteaure would have
a tendeney to interfere and prevent such a thing from Meng
place. Another al vantage would be, that the bill would
establish a very valuable recant with respect to the
mode of making a simple mortgage a transfer of
land, for it would give a clear parliamentary title;
and that simple mode would in itself increase the value
of the property by several years' purchase. He observed, in
conclusion, that all the letters he had received from Ireland,
and all the Irish newspapers he had seen, had spoken in
terms of approbation of its provisions. (Ilear.)
C.elonel DUNNE said he considered himself folly war-
ranted in having draws public attention in Ireland to the
legislation on the subject of these encumbered estates
which bad characterised former sessions. The t .me
of the speech the house had just heard was
se different se p mible from its tone lest year.
This bill, it was said, was intended to benefit Irish proprie-
tors; but the former bill bad benefited Irish speculators.
He thanked the hon. and learned mover for the care he was
manifesting towards the former claw ; and in return be
would ob.erve that it was not his intention at present to
oppose the introduction of the bill, although he thought
it defective in tot entitling the encumbered pro-
Fitter. es well as the pure:tar, to the benefit of
the loan. It seemed to be the object to make the
unencumbered man become encumbered, if he wanted an
&dame. (Hear) He believed that the Encumbered
d
Estates Bill had failed in its object, and that it bad most
unjustly forced property on a depressed marks', where it
was sold in some castor a year and • hall's purchase. Tee
owner was robbed under such dr.:unlit inc.',

leapt
Rime f
=la Jo.* el
fibs ems so- - es he was far frees
itweigh:Wig Mira ylag that •
Nd a half might not be saerifiesd for the prism
the hid health ; hat his belief mu that It was
sit sMgetheii Womb the window tax that the peewee
dissu i thle esegray were deprived of the hapotrimmots
ellhb bie sable Irked was imbue they OmeM perm
*nun be Athos, after the statement he Oho Chancellor of
Se use) had made before the holidays, that it would
be utterly to repel this be ithroit providing •
wahstinate, theme& his noble Mead sad the gallant
Mom below him had numbed he dm esailioess of koase
he should like te be bate" asselnelasi IS the subject before
be relinquished the Fount beirtbsesa. HA would moiled his
noble Irked that thremaideary eunsinion bad reported as much
against the brisk dap as the Wthiew tax, although his
noble friend had. ore a tarsier da, upraised a that
that duty might be Maned, order to sake Mimi our the
remission of the other. The within, last prodused abut
1,800,0091. nett annually, and paw the nuns already
conceded this year it was quite iniumilis that it seeM be
given op, and therefore he must resist the taeaw M W hos.
friend.
UM D. STUART add that as this tomtits deeply fa.
Isessted that poetise of Or midlevel wish ha represmasel,
end as he bad presented pithiest§ isdast the lii algae! by
010 eatapsyen, he was assleas is say a hi weeds bate
the home went to a divides. He believed that than MOO
des looked upon will more dielmour by the pa*
linseuntry than the windoules. (Hear, AMA
. same yews, and he eared= had ebneyebem
iNesdid SIM dawns aid tilessaust. Ha *slot that
hi aside Abed she had besasht howard this goalies
lieVaNab had demo Mama Wait* honour, and hp/
himself to the peel. el this country ; and, en
the ease hand, he believed that the government,
be resist* it, wield earn their lasting resentment.
The last time his noble friend brought forward the
subject was when the noble lord at the head of the
government introduced his financial statemeat. The noble
lord entreated the house to accept his badget en account of
the then esisting distress, I nuking that if they agreed to
raise the income as to five per cent., distress would be re-
lieved, and I. two pun or eo prosperity would rulers. It
appeared that the noble lord was perfectly right in his
prophecy, for sow, at the sad ef two years, there was a ass.
sidnage surplus, and they wants r to know what tams
won tO be removed. The home did not answer to the
noble lord's appeal, they did sot vote the bake% bat Mill
none of the calamities occurred which the nab lead had
prophesied. The interest on the national debt outinned
be paid, and although no ileTeliffie had been permitted to the
income tax prosperity had returned, and the couarry now
had • surplus. The house was determined not to permit
any ingress' In the income tax, and the result showed that
when the home was determined on any point the minister
contrived to get on without those taxes which he had
before devoted so indispensable. (Hear, hear.) In the
same way, at the present moment, if the house
were determined not to vote this window tax,
the government would soon find some way of getting on as
well, or batter, without it. They had now a surplus of
one and a hall millions, and he wanted to know what taxes ,
were to be remitted. The Chancellor of the Exchequer
proposed to remit the duty on bricks, which, although a
good notation in itself, would not relieve the country to the
same extent as the remission of the window tax. Then there
was a proposal about the stamp duties, which he (Lord D.
Stuart) 'sieved would be no remission at all ; and although
the probable loss was fixed at 300,0301, he believed that
there would be no loss but an actual increase to the revenue.
He gave his vote to his noble friend in the firm persuasion
that. although he might be unsuccessful now, the question
would be renewed again and again, until government Ovoid
be at brat obliged to sonde to • demand from the great
masses of the people. (Hear.)
Sir G. It. PBCHELL said it was now fifteen years since
he h ad heard • Chancellor of.the Exchequer say, that if the
then member for Wistminver would withdraw his motion,
the question of the window-tax should be considered by
the government during the following session. That was
in 1b35. There had been halt-a-deem Chancellors of the
Exchequer since, and the abuse still remained without •
remedy. The vexatious character of the impost might be
collected from the surcharges which he found in the large
majority of cases to be for window duty. But that
wen not all, as many preferred submitting patiently to im-
position to exposing themselves to tae caprices of conflicting
judges. A great many arrests had also taken piece, and
some men bad lingered eighteen months in gaol for non-
payment of the assessed taxes. He thought that some
restriction should be putou the powers of government, as to
arbitrarily kr...plug a man is gaol for an lad, finite period.
Another objection to the window tax was, the great ambi-
guity and doubt existing in the definition of what was really
a window. It seemed in fact that very few judges were able
to define what was a window. (A laugh.) In his opinion
nothing would do short of the total repeal of the tax.
(" Divide, divide," from the protectionist beach's.)
Sir B. HALL did not mean to detain the hems long
from the division for which gentlemen opposite were so im-
patient, but he wished to make • few obeervtione on the
question before the house. And he would submit it to boa.
gentlemen opposite, whether the micstituencies of the
great towas, who were deeply interested in this ques-
lion, would thick it respectful to them that •
div:sion should be as impatiently called for when their
interests were under di musics. (Hear, hear.) With res-
pect to the question before the house,one of the papers had
that morning pointedly described he position of an indi-
vidual member who bad to propose the remission
of • tax in that house. If he brought it forward
early in the sr Won, be was told to wait for the
financial statement, and if he waited until that state.
meat had been made, he was flatly told that the subject
wee aot included, and thanfora could not be considered.
That was precisely the case with his noble friend, but,
although not likely to succeed on the present occasion, he
trusted his noble friend would take an early opportunity to
bring it forward again. It was his opinion—en opinion for.
tiflest by medical authority—that the late visitation of the
cholera would have been much less fatal in its result', had
the window tax not existed. (Hear, hear.) During
the 20 years that he had held • seat in that
house, he had on every occasion on which the question
was brought forward given his vote in favour of the repeal
of this impost, and though the present motion would no
doubt be defeated, be hoped his noble friend (Lord Dunexn)
would still perseven in his efforts, remembering that without
constant agitation ministers never °muted to remove or re-
duce any tax whatsoever. (Cheers.)
Mr. HUME rose amid impatient calls for a division. He
hoped hon. gentlemen who were so anxious foe • division
would have a little pities's. (Hear.) It appeared to him
that some explanation was necessary to put the quest on on •
proper footing before hoe. gentlemen proceeded to vote upon
at. The question wee, whetter, supposing the house deter-
mined on mainteinfog the present amount of expenditure,
which he was sot, this tax ought not to be abolished never-
tholes, and • substitute fund from some other source ?
(Hear, hear.) He, however, was one of those who
soasidered the tax might be removed, and the amount
met by economy in the public expenditure. The African
squadron would have been pat down by a vote of the house
a few days ago but for the fear of turning out the govern-
ment. Let those how. gentlemen who were favourable to
the abolition of that squadron, as an unwise and useless ex-
penditurs, now vote for this motion, and they would find
ministers coming down in a few days with amended esti-
mates, bringing the expenditure within the revenue. (lieu,
hear.) By reducing the African squadron, uputting • stop
to those win worki in the Channel Islands, when
they were doing little elm bat throwing gold into the sea,
government would have the means in their hands for agxdiag
the relief sow asked, and it was the duty of that house to
check useless and absurd expenditure by reduoiag
the taxes and keeping the revenue down to the
mural requimmenl*f the several publis departments.
Lord 11. GROSVENOR observed, that as the house, was
desirous of going at saes to • dimsion, he 'bona detain
them only with sae or two remarks. (Hear, hear.) He
could not, however, go to • vote without expressing his de-
termination to support his noble friend the member foe
Bath whenever he brought this proposition for the repeal
of the window duty forward. (Cheers.) He had received
eammunicatioos from several supporters of the government,
expressing their surprise that, after their professions in
favour of sanitary improvement, they should still inset on
continuing the tax upon light and air without any alteration
or mitigation. (Cheers and " divide.")
Lord DUNCAN, in rep, expressed hi" regret at the
silence of the numerous advocates of sanitary reform now
this qut stion, upon which so mach depended in regard to
the health of the pimple, was under discussion. The Chan•
eellor of the Exchequer, when he said that nothing new had
been advanced la favour of the motion, seemed to forget
that he lad given no answer to the midmost he (Dvd
Duncan) had made in bringing forward his motion last year,
and which he should bring forward again and spin until
he succeeded. (Cheers.)
Tbe hues then divided, and the numbers were—
Fur the notice 77
Against it
The result was received with load cheer. by the minority.
ENCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND) BILL.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL roes to move tr leave to

bring is illiodic; pro vidlTmut;;;i;p);;Mit tire nrimen---rittee
Mr advances to pureirmere of encumbered *mates tn

It would be reacembered that he Dod very Wady stated the
object et this bill oa a former eveolog when ost hie movie,
lot Issue to introduce it the house was wonted oat by the

b 7 liegativ•
paralesse
wan should IV
to be diftrliule

Taiitti-ii
~_.

teviable
,iwillMeett sot be
oak that ' tbw
ae Ca hatete..s
Aware be sash .-to
rpossessed IA
tdier_ that the

hon. and gallant member for PortarHogton (Col. Dunne).
That hon. and gallant gentleman and the hos, member for
Itoecomnios, he believed altogether misunderstood the ohp ct
of the measure, which was to benefit the Irish lawied pro-
prietor, and net, as 11. y supposed, to ben, fit English pi.r.
chasers. The operation of the act under which the encum-
bered estates commission had been appointed had been so
large that no lees than 668 orders for the eels of
agates had been made seder it. But while this
tact @bowed the netessity for pairing that cues-
sue, it also allowed the seemly of pr. ventiog
by some means that depredation in valise which the forcing
such a large amonot of property into the market almost at
the same lime must oemeloa. It was, therefore, thought
desirable that the oomailesionere ehtiald distribute the eal.s
, over as large en extent of haw as they could, in order to oh
' tale the beat prices ; and, if possible, that the moans of par-

Sir L. O'BRIEN was ditliwed to give his support to any
bill that would IseLitate the transfer of incumbered estates,
but not a bill to face such a transfer.
Atter a few words from Mr. F. FRENCH,
Mr. NAI'IER said he should give the bill his best
attention, and when the measore came to be discussed on
principle, he would be prepared to state more fully his
opinion of it.
Mr. SADLEIR had always anticipated great sacrifices
under the Incumty red E.tates Aet • and be thought that
no one who supported it should complain of its operations in
that respect. It was not only necessary, but an set of
justice, that =wisely encumbered estates in Ireland 010011
be at once brought to the demurer. (Hear, hear.) It
wee not within the comp.'s of the government or legisla-
ture to center a greater boon upon the landed proprietors of
the nation than to give them a facile mode of obtaining
money upon the faith of aco eeee security. (Hear.)
. .

VIM/ that aro gAprestst heeled with the sa,nagesoont
drthsabfonele foci great difilsaity, from roe impossibility
ooWidding *eh trustees Withent Warring great expense,
ma mtity givlnerdiss egad to the wietwe sad I.
tintless of dm dt.sm. Den this WU would not effect what
BI title grelessets• ha iris+. It_appled only_ to a par
tysiisr :
dins
of
tads
"We
a.seapiesirte nTt.eiruti;
y shows M. sad under 1001, sad
soother telboaol tb.. Mkt M. At present no property
MAST 1001. lona go INN **Coon of Chaney_ 71t.!soot pig

insrmeggp Om the charities ahem 100 L bad tains'
right Ile be may and properly administered as these
under 1001. This wee eating but a device for Readies that
reformillme-iir der eoemi fremorry is its adwainistradowl
of 'kali*, dm whisk ell tbe wood& bad been long crying
oat, W Os neeessity'sf which was every day mire im-
pressed upon the public. Biagovannient could undertake a
more popular ead plata*, seek than that of endeavouring
to make the Cart of Chasm what it was intended to be—
the means of administering Julies with regard to charities,
sO that it might be 'reliable for all, however smell In
amount. It the turned Solialtoramenl would give lle
attendee to such an alteration of the Court of Chancery be
would be doing a great public OOTTIOS ; bat if be persevered
with this bill as it stood the effect would only be to hide
from the public the deformities and the expense of that par-
ticular court, end to prevent any adequate reformation of it
faits administration of charities ; while in the meantime the
Amities of small amount were remitted to a tribunal
which he thought would be utterly incompetent to manage
them. Sours persons thought charities of small amount
was. of abet importance • but they involved principles of
as gagrod as charities of the largest amount ; and
ro ly on particular classes of
InFllnals,Vlll extensively
Influenced the happiness
and comfort id within their range in their respective
-halides. It was not the amount, but the object to which
a charity was directed, that ought to be looked at, that
Italy might secure the donot's intentions, and present those
chess" which bed arisen more from want of au 'cirque.e
tribes"' for their minor, than from any fault of those who
administered them. The number of small charities with
which the bill dealt was enormous; there were 4,600
of an educational character alone, which were
directed to most b• neficial purposes, and of which
the due application should be ensured. The hill
proposed to transfer to the judge. of the county
courts the right of dealing with the charities under 301. per
annum; all questions as to the appropriation of the charity,
and the appointment of the trustees were to be submitted to
him; and be was to have the power of laying down new
schemes for the administration of the charities, in con•
formity with what he considered to be the inteatione of the
founders. This was a very extensive power ; it had hitherto
been vested entirely in the Lord Chancellor, who, from his
eminent position, always in the view of the public, having
great responsibility attached to him, and meting
always in the pretence of a learned bar, who were reedy to
criticise, approve, or mm.* his conduct, had every motive
for aotiag on just and uniform principle, in the ad-
minhtration of these funds. But the power was to
be transferred to an cffieer of a very different
description a county court judge, sitting in a
provincial town, with no bar of any importance before him
—the affairs he managed only known to a few persons
resident in the immediate neighbourhood—who was not suf-
ficiently high in his profession to be above the suspicion
which always would attach to his decisions, of proceeding
in some degree from political or other toelings—who, gene-
rally speaking, had to deal with questions of common law,
and wag very little conversant with the rules of equity.
Another evil was this. At present there was a uniform
tenor of decisions; but they were about to commit then
questions to perhaps 60 judges, each deciding in his separate
jurisdiction on points of equity with which he was rot per-
!Molar!, conversant, forming precedents for himself is each
particular ease, and running the risk, if not incurring
the certainty, of giving decisions on most important
points, when would involve the whole administration
of these trusts in difficulty and disorder, not merely
for the moment, but for all time to come. lie might be told
that there wee an appeal from the decision of the county
judge to the Lord Chancellor; but the party appealing must
do so at his own expense. (Rear, hear.) The true remedy
was in the purification of the Court of Chancery, and in
rendering it less dilatory and expensive; not in raising up
tribunal., the only remedy for wh, se unjust decisions would be
surrounded with all the expense, vexation, and delay which
now attended questions of the administration of charity in
the first instance. On these grounds he thought the bill
required serious consideration on tte past of government.
It would be far wiser to undertake such a revision of the
proceedings in Chancery as should give to all charities,
great or small, the advantage of a proper adainistration,
then to endeavour to bolster up what was in itself a bad
system, by attemi ting a remedy for a portion of the evil,
which would be no remedy at all, but which, though it
might saea name expense and litigation in the first in-
stance, would toad to produce groat dissatisfaction and great
injustice.
Mr.ITURNER complained that the bill ha' been generale
Lot iatio.gtheprp.srrdesl anwiutzrcnorableitdiateie,lnheobjhecallnrxe.t.o
actuated solely by a s nee of the importance of the season..
it affected mainly the int mats of the poorer else., and

threw a great responsibility on the house in selecting a
tribunal for the proper a.:ministration of tli se charities.
He regretted that such administration had often been tainted
with political &Ohm He was most d, cirrus of hearing the
suggestions sl gentlemen conversant wills the working of
charities in their rel.: entire neighneurhoo e. Thu bit cosh
with all small chsritics under 1001., the number of which
was abaut 24,000, and their income was not Isle than a
million a year. There were also between 3,000
and 4,000 ehari.Lts under 30/. a year, who..
aggregate income ima between 200,00 N. and 330,0001.
Their objects were very various ; some we re for the znai..te•
nance of churches, others of highways, when of the pror,
and others for educational purposes. Tae descripti ens of
trustees were almost as various—nominated, cl.ctad, ez
officio, and other kinds. In dealing with funds so large, and
applicable to such a variety of purposes, it was most impor•
tant to set et a tribunal which would ensure t'eir Ming

Mr: STAFFORD regretted to hear the Solicitor-Gerieral fairly and properly administered. Tree first object was to
say that the government had given up all hope of eeei•tg the take can that proper persons were selectee as tru-tees ; the
investment of English capital in Irish property. It he had next to medal. es little as possible with the discretion of
misonderstood the bon. and learned gentleman, it was only those trustees so I.ng as it was properly ex. relied ;a • xt, to
right that ho should be correeted, as such an opinion provide a very spre-4 and effilient remedy in the event of
al that would greatly tend to increase the o'tjections and any abuse of the trust; and lastly, to take care that
the difficulty to investing English capital in Irish property. no groundless, or vexatious suit on the subject of
And let the house pause in Its legislation—let it see now the these ebarities or their administration should be iucurred.
affairs of the poor had been managed by the paid guardians— No person who wax unacquainted with the c urse of pro•
let the house take into consideration the state of affairs when seeding in the Court of Chancery could conceive the mischief
these men, appziated under the centralising system, came that arose from allowing parties to come into court Doe, a any
into office ; and if they found, as he believe d they would find, complaint which they thought wooer to prefer. If his hon.
that the grossest mismanagement, the most preffigate @open- and learned friend could devote suffitient time and care, con-
ditore, and the moot cruel neglect were to t e laid to the sistently with the other duties he hid to perform, to this
charge of these men, let them do some justice and extend matter, he should be quite satisfied to leave that discretion
some mercy to a class of proprietors so severely tried as the in his hands. But he knew that it would be itopeuible
Irish landlords had been, and whose sufferings, he trusted, for his hon. and learned friend to devote suffi•
the English landlooners would only know by repute. cient attention t the sub;ect, end without casting rho
Sir J. ROMILLY said, when he stated that English slightest imputation on his hon. and learned friend,
capital could not be invested in land in Ireland, he only he was acquainted with many eases where informations had
stated his own individual opinion. Generally persons been filed en the name of his hon. and learned friend, whose
bought property who bad the opportunity of seeing it, and sanction wax required pro forma, without its being possible
occasionally visiting it; and &evadingly it wu to be expected for him to give due consideration to the subject. No protee-
that Englith capitalists would not buy estates in Ireland time, therefore, which Gould be of any avail to these charities
sinks. they intended to live In that country ; and it was not was thrown round them by the sanctiou of his hon. and
to be expected that generally they would do that, learned friend. (War.) Then, the sanction of two muds-
But they would lay out money in the purchase of se- (rates would he sufficient. Let the house only conceive what
curities in Ireland. The hoc. gentleman the member far the effect of this must be in the different towns thronehout
Roseernmen must have misunderstood him with respect to the country. Nothing would be more easy then for a party
the half value of the property, if be supposed that the to obtain the sanction of two magistrates in these paces
object of the bill was not to sell more than half the pro- when a spirit of strife or party feeling existed, to file in-
perty. They must sell the whole estate if there was any- formatioss against a charity, and to exhaust its funds by
thing whatever due, provided the owner would not pay. making it the subject of appeal to the Court of Chancery.
Leave was then given to bring in the bill. The hill was objectionable in that respect. But it was
SUPPLY. objectionable likewise in many. other respects. By the
The reports on supply were then brought up. On the vote provisions of these bills all charities between 301. end 1001.
of 273,&371. for commissariat and barrack supplies, were to be referred at once to the jurisdiction of a Master in
Mr. SPOONER said there had been a considerable pur- Chancery, finally, and without appeal. Now, he would
chase made of land for barracks in Birmingham, which had admit that the offin of Master in Chancery was never
been unoccupied for some time. He wished to ask whether better filled than it was at the present time ; but, neverthe-
that land was to continue to be unoccupied, or was it to be less, he had no hesitation in saying that it was a general
built upon? practice for the parties who were litigating any cue to
Lord J. RUSSELL said the hon. gentleman would appeal from their Julian to that of the superior court. He
receive a reply if he would repeat the question when the therefore asked at the hands of the house that the right of
Secretary of State for the Home Depuun ;nt was in the appeal from the decision et the master should be allowed in
house. the cue of these chorito s. He should not perhaps object
Oa the item of 137,100/. to defray the salaries of officers to the Masters in Chancery being invested with the power
and contingent expenses of the Admiralty-office, of appointing the trustees. But this bill roomed to give
Colonel SIBTHORP said be was well aware how naless them the power of removing trustees. With respect
it was for so small a man as he was in that house to object to to charities under 301., the bill proposed to place them under
a vote which was proposed by government. This vote bad the jurisdiction of the County Courts. To that he entertained
been carried by the house. In objecting to it he discharged the strongest objection, because although he wished to speak
a most painful duty, for no man war mere attached to the with great respect of the judges of these courts, they were
service of the army and navy than ha was. He had lest a not generally acquainted with the mode of administering
very amiable brotner in the service who was not undistia- charities, or with the principles which regulated their ad-
guished, and he had another brother in the mauler service ministration. But the evil did not stop at charities under 301.
in the army, who discharged his duty at Mooltan. Thera- a year, for power was given to the Chaneellor to send
fore he discharged a painful duty last night when he reposed
charities of • higher amount to the county court, for the
the reduction that he did. The noble lord promised a cam- purpose of inquiry and administrstion. Under this pro-
mittee of inquiry. He entertained the greatest respect for vision of the bill, even Rugby, Harrow, or Eton, would
the noble lord as far as his talents were concerned, but he come within the power of the county court. It was not
could not say much for his consistency. (A laugh.) He right to incur even the danger of that. He did not deny
had pr.:wised a committee to consider the reduction of that some legislation was necessary on this subject. But
talents. lie hoped the noble lord would carry that prin. this bill was defective as well as faulty. It made no provision
cilia into effect. He (Col. Sibthorp) took the liberty of to enable charitable trustees to pus their a-cmunts, which
'tying that he doubted it. Nevertheless, he should pursue was a most desirable object to attsin. It introduced confusion
the coursethat he had done. Re should watch the noble with respect to municipal charitieslan.er 301., which were
lord as carefully as a cat watched a mouse, and he should under the jurisdiction of trustees appointed by the Lord
be always on the spot. (A laugh.) Chancellor. But this bill places other charities of the same
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he did net think the hon. amount. which might be and were connected and adminis-
and gallant member bad made out his cue f, r a reduction tired together with municipal charities, under a different
of the Lords of the Admiralty. He considered that seethe- jurisdiction. Again, this bill contained no provision to
ton might be more isasily made by exercising a vigiltat remedy the evil of requiring luau to be executed by all
superintendence over the expenditure of the dockyards the trusters. He trusted that the house would, at all events,
The remaining items la the report were thou read 'over reject the clime relating to charities under 301. (Hear.)
and agreed to. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he entirely acquitted
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked when it was probable that
his hon. and learned friend of any wish to give an un-
the miscellaneous estimates would be brought on. retrainable opposition to this measure. He thought that
Mr. HAYTEIt said the Masotti year had but j cat con- the observations made by the right hoes, gentleman
eluded; it had been usual to bring forward these *etiolates
(Mr. (toolbar's), and by his hon. and learned friend who ad-
at a later period ; bat they were is a state of great forward- emitted that such a vast number of breaches of trust had been
pees, and would be laid before the holm as soon as possible. committed without any redress, for the redress that might
BRICK DUTIES BILL. be obtaleed waist. expensive that it would not be prudent to
This bill wee read a third time. have recourse to it—showed that it was important to make
JUDGMENTS (IRELAND) BILL. some provision to remedy that evil. (Hear, bear.)
The third reading of this MII war postponed till Thursday. His hoe, and learned friend and the right hen.
STAMP DUTIES 13ILL. gentleman said that the real remedy would be
The committee on this hill was postponed till Thursday. a complete reform of the Court of Chancery
CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL. He was not prepared to dispute that proposition—shear,
Oa the sans t .n for the second reading of this bill,
Mr. GOULBURN said these were several hear)—or, if the Court of Chancery war what be wished it
points in the to he, that ft could not decide upon those oases at as fettling
bill which deserved serious consideration, and he thought he a cost u any other court. (Hear, hear.) But how near did
could not do better than Este the objections he entertained to the house guppies them to be to such a reform of the Court
it now on the locoed reading, in the hope that they would of Chancery. (Hear, beer, and laughter.) How far
61 duly considered by the government. It was ex•
from eke manner in which the
trawl, important that the objects professed by the be Judged of
they were removed from such a coosunatnation, might
bill should be achieved—the better sad more ego- house had already received the measures which had
uoinkal administration of charitable funds. Every one been introduced with regard to the Court of Chancery in

rested 'illle t eto i bet tii• last was shot the eastriey s' .ae isemessid by
la, Irma ~,,, i • . / thi a it
Maga a tb• pa
0.61-k"joirtrtutrawrey I
lira d'% :',..11° w sad • oil. lady Oat Ikea d, re br
~ tear* i lishid wpm Ista.t4. ~Oa advaarimi
eh la ...• try 4. , •
'o to talk arabola, tl
Il
..II•4 .0. lip , Jo ebtalawl--oae
)i!•....... 4,,,,
If ditty i - therefore, tele kr 0 the al gri• the should be
.71=re the did salami • were maroaed• the "" I& sr the Heels' Prefriatore• re Priem
4he With regard te the sad throes to lead that capital, la ode
then earoplisait With ._
r" " braid* Atka hies yodel eight hi eileeled. 4a - ethea-we
wiadew-tax. it was me It war trot they
_owe alpetei, ItrO the Oho Ina to that*, loade:6==
wilily amirsitaia_periagrairb. Masa Ol• erlis °whir; M dPiaposia, lik Mad plow, it whit
1 eselenmet- pieesiWlFiiir 1111111 curdle awasonf . ji• sac m iiisla-to.tesamsoaalkoaderamisetll
home. Adam old the Ihe east ea malty, lw wcs far: hoes *lto faille 'to the perms goal