The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1856-05-08 00:00:00

TOWN COUNCIL,

vat,te ordinary Council
monthly and quarterly meeting of the
"an, Esq., Mayor, in the chair.

Alt: opinion as one member of the council, lot others think as
they please. I for one balky° that to justify the late war in
particular, we must ignore the decalogue, and reduce the num-
ber of commandments from ten to nine. That is my opinion,
and with this simple expression of opinion t Shall nit doWn.
The motion was then put and c.a.:led.
Mr. Brancker moved that the proposer and seconder of the
resolution, with the Mayor and the Recorder, he appointed a
committee to prepare the address, and that aim nth-gess be
presented as the committee might think Most judicious.
This resolution was seconded, and alto carried by accla-

When the PEAcE.—AnbuEss TO THE QUEEN.
11l
iorie Council had assembled,,
BabjeotlunallerbY rose and said :—Mr. Mayor, I wish to bring a
ight t° tal, the consideration of the council which, I think,
etternie„_
ae precedence of all the ordinary proceedings.
asseri"'n re aware that the corporation of London, and
air other
'ads, vat municipal bodies throughout the country, have B ROUGH GAOL.
tktificatioa addresses to her Majesty on the occasion of the The proceedings of this committee comprised
.rarornenens
between 6:sal the treaty of peace, just concluded at Paris dation to grant to the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Com-
and, th,i.tke sslieen and her Allies, and the Emperor of Russia ; patsy a lease in perpetnity- of the site of the Old Gaol and
"et one of t',,str, it will be admitted that, presiding, as we do, adjoining land in 6reat Howard-street.; and a recommendation
't'eabich b_"B most important communities of the empire, and to ptiOliase land; and premises adjoining the Old Gas Works
',seta to
thas always been distinguished for loyalty and attach- in Dale-street, for the sum of £2,200.
11," were sovereign, we should ill discharge our duty if The first recommendation was based on the report of the
,llaje,ty
°n ack.ward in presenting our congratulations also to her surveyor, and was thus set forth in the minutes :—" The
iffereneet,this auspicious occasion. (Hear, hear). Whatever surveyor having, with the sanction of the committee, been in
iron°sss thef °Pinion there may be as to the terms and eon- communication with Mr. James Holrne, acting on behalf of
'Niue.treaty
pripeeto
ti,,eratitede to
just made, there can, I think, be only one the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Company for the sale
Providence for having at length restored by the corporation to the company of the site Of the Old
?,11"l'saanite world. No one, I think, with the common feelings Borough Gael, and certain other land in Great Howard-street,
~4`ll which y' can reflect upon the sufferings to which the war being the site of the Old Pig Market, and the Flag yard now
hitelseerrowll,'le been engaged
.so long, has given occasion, or' in the occupation of Messrs. Chaffers, containing within
o, setae has, desolation in which it has plunged thousands of the line of improvement about 19,934 square yards, begs to
oer O,,t•PY families, not only in England and in the countries recommend the following arrangement :—That the company
ape, , -tees
say ' -t• throughout the dominions of the enemy ; no shall convey to the corporation all that, plot of freehold land at
alamit:,ean contemplate those horrors and not rejoice that the coroner of Great Howard-street and Spranger-street,
alt h) grievous has at length been brought to an end ; containing about 3,200 square yards, and shall receive from
l'ethses, the pace which has been concluded, may not, the corporation a perpetual lease, or giant, of the site of the
tetinne ltogethi,r satisfactory to evervhodY, we have yet Borough Gaol and adjoining land, containing, as before
ths tioatnll °f knowing that it is one which is neither injurious stated, ab0ur'19,934 square yards, paying, therefore, a perpetual
Tlleeest or"ll,rt nor detrimental to the real and permanent rent charge of 2s Gd per square yard, calculated on as much
!sn'ialidt,'_rt"is country. Whether the great' objects' of Eng- thereof as shall remain after deducting the quantity of ground
tbie Je
.august Ally, the Emperor of the French—whether contained in the before mentioned plot of land at the corner of.
lla, wet objects which we proposed to ourselves, in undertaking Great Howard-street and Spranger-street, when the said
atnibitioot noajne.laS,'lo restrain within due bounds the immoderate quantity shall have been ascertained and determined—this
isae,i t' e Powerful enemy we ha roc contend with, has arrangement to be subject to the Lords of the Treasury."
414Prliblee thin °l. ell'Ay partially and imperfectly secured, it is Mr. Hornby said :In moving the confirmation of the pro-
to-or,tbne Most sagacious person to predict. But this ceedings of the finance committee, I have first to bring under
coral:. e"
shift - that h abundantly proved. It has been clearly notice the reconimen ar n g • - dCo to rant to the Lancashire and
long continuance of peace and prosperity which Yorkshire Company a lease in perpetuity of the site of the
ilWaterl3 has enjoyed from tde period of the battle old gaol and adjoining land in Great Howard Street. It is a
'hes 5° down to the breaking out of the hos- plot of land very well known to the corporation. It contains
th with
s't that Russia, a period of nearly forty Years; about 19,934 square yards, and, as the council has. already
es,l'syed '4 period of peace and tranquility has neither heard, the terms on which we have agreed to lease it
.to the
7°lnle eint°r impaired the. martial spirit of the people of this company, subject of course to the approval of the Council, are,
'al 1y the is h'S country ; and that England still possesses, not that we are, in the first place, to receive the plot of land con-
Itlt againselination, hut the power and ability to protect her taming about 3,200 square yards also fronting Great Howard-
ours,,seighbt the aggression and rapacity of More powerful street and Spranger-street, to be deducted yard for yard. fr?itn
''nlletn,o Mr. Mayor, it will be in the recollection of every the plot to be leased ; and that for the remaining quantity, being
of hottto.vv present, that a year er two More the breaking about 16,700 square yards. we are to receive a perpetual rent
OY, and with Russia, a very general feeling of inse- of two shilling and sixpence the square yard, or about £2,.080
was k I"' of alarm, was felt throughout the country. per annum. 1 consider, and the finance committee
„ate I 'eeling whichpervaded all classes of society,and it consider, that this mode of dealing with the property
"ttottaili --Ple'lllcuce of are belief of the- insufficiencsof our of the corporation, particularly where it is in large
_ballasts, defences, and the neglected state of our naval and lots, is particularly beneficial, instead of receiving a
wllah,'lnae_stablisinnents of the country. This was a feeling, large sum of money at one time with an irregular and uncer-
tl'.'l the e'rested and declared as it was to the whole of Europe tain income on the renewal of the leases of the property, we
nthnle'llnwtreerlds was, I think, little creditable to the people of will,. by this arrangement, have a perpetual rent of £2,000 ;
e "'sr, and still less so to their rulers; but the events of and in this case an undoubted security,
.for. in addition. to. the
tech fret, such have just taken place, have put an end to any value of the land, and the works and buildings which will be
fist "tnig for the future. (Hear, hear). I think we may safely constructed on it, we have also got a security in the character of
preset o, 'at, at all events, during the lifetime of the the tenant. And now in regard to the price. For my part
ngi:etleder.,ation of men no such feeling will be experienced when I came into this room to. day, I was under the impression
o re, and that England, while she will always, lam that we had made a most favourable urraigement, but I have
libertj'es Oily abstain from any infringement on the riehts been told that there has been, an article in one of the daily
bloat:" °f other nations, will always be ready, and, with papers (NORTHERN DAILY Irmas), stating that this sale is,
ref n
'crid het.s of Providence, will always be able to protect and in point of fact, nothing more than a job. (Hear, hear.)
:5g the°7ll, (Rear, hear.) I have already trespassed too That we have obtained a. very inadequate price for it, and that
t')/7° rho ttrne of the council, and I feel that when I sit we ought to have obtained a much larger one. The price
e itya
council will
stir, lf; h not be scarcely less relieved than I will that we have obtained, reckoning the rate of interest at four
t4t-eera: but I have the satisfaction of knowing, that any and a half per cent., is equal to £2l Ss per square yard, and it will
'fore Ingo that I may have shown in bringing this subject be borne in mind that this land is not all front land. It is a lot
will be amply remedied b the gentleman who has of land which rxtends upwards of one hundred yards in depth,
notir4", °d ou,er:aka, to be my seconderY en the occasion. In and although the front lots might sell from £4 to £5 per square
•Tatalatsci: ' Mayor, I beg to move, g, thatan Addressof Con- yard, there would be very much difficulty in disposing the
.ba.ck
ofn heM Presented by this Council to her Majesty on the lots at very much lower rates. And backed up by the opinion
a,:siPeace which she and her Allies have just concluded of our surveyor, who has as great a knowledge, without except-
-41.1% (Applause.) ing yourself, Mr. Mayor, as any man in Liverpool, and hacked
I',ehgraareall Samuel Holme said Mr. Mayor, I rise with up by your opinion also, and that of several other gentlemen of
,41oreate-aneation to second the motion which has been just practical experience, the finance committee are of opinion that
t"thatever
_bY Mr. Hereby ;. and I quite rQree with that it is a very favourable sale, and, in so thinking, I move that the
treate'n,,y be the opinion of individuals with reference to recommendation be confirmed.
4 but (5' °I Peace which has just been concluded, there can Mr. Alderman S. Holme seconded the motion..
I's to ;lie °Pinion among all men, that it is advents sous for Mr. Hodson said that ire always listened with very great
t(411-leare:bee'Ioarnge the horrors of war or that
blessings gof peace patience to the remarks of Mr. Hornby, and that if he were in
ae Peons *) Two years ago, sir at the call of the Sovereign, any difficulty, there was no man's opinion which he would
national
Country rose up' as one man, not only to take in preference to Eis ; but he did not think that they
10Ititeptir:::.8attniree
dant,l,ogo,aroluhsonur, but to prevent aggression and required Solomon, or his eldest son, to tell them what was file
t.
spirit of agerandisement7 manifested value of land in Great Howard-street, and particularly that o
her tells' • England, on that occasion, sought no extension of the site of the old borough gaol. (Hear, hear.) No man
Cgaeticll°rY, nor used her power to ,oppress;b but she saw a could have lived in Liverpool for twenty years without having
throuseas
trampling down nation after nation, wading observed the gradual increase in the value of land in that
IlanCe of blood for the purpose of her victorious locality and about the Exchange, nor without coming to the
and th "on that city which, of all others theg most central conclusion that if there was one plot of land more valuable than
bealiost fair on the surface of the earth (Hear hear ) another for extent and locality, it was that on which the old
"tad itussla. succeeded in attaining 'this end', what borough gaol stood. He, therefore, did not agree with those
have been the probable results ? Sweden gentlemen—whether they wore surveyors, or not, he could not
Rletim`enlnark would probably have been the next —wino held that the offer now made was the full value of the
~71aek Cur commerce would have been excluded from the land; and he should conclude by moving an amendment to tire
Vohas,Sl,,',7-our intercourse with our Indian empire would recommendation. Let any man of ordinary common sense
°sae bet' nave been impeded—our trade with tire Levant would look around him, and consider the position of the locality. in
t'erlanoTl injured or destroyed and this Northern Colossus, connection with the docks ; let him also consider
.the
would i•eg, as sire then would have' done, Europe and Asia, impetus to trade which the peace—the blessings
would' we '1,411 probabilit' pare absorbent Sweden and Norway, of which had been so beautifully, described by
ttestodsuould
soon haven oth'er Sebastopol, or Sebastopols, Mr. Hornby and Mr. Holme—would give throughout the
w`Uila the fiords ofanNorway, and the navy of Russia town generally, but in that quarter of it in particular, and he
cut ow01_7! been brought face to face with the eastern ports of would see that the land in question would in a few years
.double
litosidetiir'gdem. (Hear, hear.) But, by the blessing of itself in value. (Hear, hear.) There
_were several circum-
,l. °l.tr bY the gallantry of our army and navy, by those stances in this matter that were somewhat remarkable, and
."`
the 'dthand I would particularly allude to the gallantry although he haul the gneatest respect for Mn. James Holune,
On this oecasion those intentions have been vet he could not help thinking that a e,•entleman could not
itb, and te Russia has been met foot to foot upon her own serve two masters. (Hear, hear.) Mr. James Holme was a
"inte„." sword which she drew from the scabbard with director of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Compsny, and he
dares, be on of annihilating Turkey, has, by a retributive was no doubt an exceedingly good one. He was a member of
that en Plunged into her own bosom. (Hear, hear.) I the council, too, and a more practical man did not enter it,
Iser LI a retributive justice has been fairly meted out, but it was a moral impossibility that any man could fairly serve
arr, ignexte'ne. fleet Las been sunk. Her Baltic fleet two bodies. He should, of necessity, have a leaning to one
k.4,o,4t—ttnionslv taken refu'e under the fortresses side or the other. (Hear, hear.) Well, Mn, S anuel Helm°
theeseadet• Millions of her treagsures have been spent. Tens was his brother, and deputy chairman of the finance com-
saiN °f her sons have sacrificed themselves for her in mittee, and though he was a gentleman whom everybody must
`aught bt net has been corn -lied to disgorge—and' she has been respect, still he was not "infallible," and nothing but human.
gmal ciel-t;ra'ecveefs,,.. Iroweverp' pliant they may as far as
.mere (Great laughter.) Now, let any one ask himself the question,
at eroughte._ is. concerned, are utterly unable to cope with and say what other conclusion could he come to than that it
wbene,, ln the midst of liberty and civilsatinn ; and was impossible for those gentlemen to treat this matter in the
• (Rear, theY come into contact, the serf must inevitably light which he (Mr. Hodson) and the Mayor, who had no
111,•lIst "ear.) She has learned that, if she is to conquer, interest, directly or indirectly, but one for the common good
thanafaet ni• cultivating the arts of peace, by cultivating her of the town in the subject, would view it. In the next place.
-111 i this and her commerce, by her ignorant he was not as well satisfied as some older members of the
"ver°llitio•ri'se blessing of education, and by exchanging the council with the law that was here carried out, for it was the
45pe. stri°f the knout for the liberal institutions of Western first time since he had been a member of the council that
of thovaear, hear, and applause.) Mr. Mayor, lam not he had heard of the council granting a lease in
!gnh;t be snic who wish for another year of war, that Russia perpetuity; and if they objected to grant leases in per-
blanls- On of -.here deeply humiliated. I was one' of the half petuity to individuals, ire certainly should object, most
taric'or rersons wire saw that magnificent fleet riding at strongly, to their being granted to public bodies. (Hear,
! for other day at S Ulu ad ; and I heard some say- hear.) He would ask what would be the value of this land,
aol-teerehet.trtr an°ther brushP with Russia now." But, supposing that Liverpool went on increasing at the same rate
tueena, berin-g the hearts made desolate by war— that it had done for the last twelve years.? Taking the land
it'l4•° Dee a the horrors of the trenches which at the price now laid by the finance committee, it would, sup-
the is delineated by the reporters of the posing that Liverpool continued to increase in the next ten
re "attlesflou'eulenabering the dead and dying which strew years as it had done, at the expiration. of. that time, bring £5
s,,jelthatear "1, ever where men came together in one mortal the square yard. Gentlemen might smile, but there was ono
csws of 'n'etehering tine mothers deprived of their sons, the gentleman in the room who had told him that at. the end of
'tehritetribeetheir husbands and the children of their p 'rents— five years he would have no hesitation in giving £5 a square
silent4lg t°os sir, tire agony of the military hospitals, and yard for it ; and that ended the case. If the committee had
Aptogbr.aves upon Catheart's Hill, where so many of come to the council and said they had leased the land for 2s 6d
. laland's loalry have laid down their lives as the victims of a square and for the first five years, 3s 61 for the second five
hilleith,ankful that, without the national honour of years, and 6s for the third five years, when the value of the
tio to dicta tarnished, but the reverse, we are in a condition land would he much increased, as all the corporation property
tar_e_asnure,
~rle an
with
peace, after the exeenditure of was increasing in value, then he would say there was sone-
pegFd the seas and the' commerce of the world thing reasonable in it, and might merit their approval. (Hear,
bc's4'ut ItesB..llo and trade following into its natural channels, hear.) But nothing of the kind was done, the committee
that', sad
a°7
in interference, or Russian prescription. (Hear, went to the company and concluded the negotiation, and if the
thli4isagriePe wits
th Pe
rra
t me,
before I sit down, to say council now sanctioned it, all power of improving the north end
atia war. °se who say we have not gained much of the town! which was the most important thing that could
fil erineark .e have gained much. Sweden, Norway, deserve their attention, would rernoved from them.thol\u'ot
'l)t, 4ighboin will now 1,0 secure against their power- gentleman' could drive along Great Howard-street
la IN, as., rs (Rear, hear ) The Danube has been seeing the difficulty of transit there, and yet they were now
-dulvs,tiela)e. `nrilhWert,huxit. the trade.- of the south-eastern Part of asked to give. up the power which would alone enable them to
and
no tne will now be free to the ships of the make those improvements which were so necessary for the
leat„ swath t±'•ussian navy, in domineering power, shall commerce of Liverpool. He thought the council should not,
liter the tile seas. (Hear, hear ) Turkey, too, has for a moment, sanction such a proposition, and he would
tvheott? to -othneeleessity of liberality, and of granting religious therefore move as an amendment, that so much of the proceed-
'retvd the People ; dueh 30 millions of
habitinhabants ings of the committee as had reference to the sale to the
of on a eenntries of t lesser Asia, living as now Lencashire and Yorkshire Railway Comyany of tle an
tharnir 100018civilised state, will begin to want the productions occupied by the site of the old borough gaol, be not confirmed
rese,ngwith
the
no doubt, a large trade with us, inter- at present, but that it be postponed for one month, to give n.me
(;'4 Apish manufactures of our skill for the coin- to the corporation and the town to consider the whole ques,tion.
tt),,ar.) An" their own rich and fair country produces. He thought that was not an unreasonable request —(near,
le,toeorrinsere when the wounds of war are healed, I trust hear)—because, if it were a good bargain the town would soon
eat : ed, that e will again ex and and that Europe will have find it out, and would be satisfied with it, and if it were not,
Sir tratoei_ AiLle France and England are united, no nation then the council would soon get a stimulant, particularly those
have conirye nnder foot the rights of others. (Hear, hear.) of them, who, as aldermen and councillors, would have to
r "eeing tl
Wasit 'Med n the anxiety and the responsibility which obtain a renewal of their houses, which would make them view
iu I„ail!nri our gracious Sovereign, and not being back- silo matter inn another light. (Hear, hear.)
„e,rue'tltien ',1171
which
the throne, I most heartily agree with tine Mr. Beckwith seconded the motion.
voieotbat „e_.l Mr. Hornby has just propose, and lam Mr. Alderman Dover said, that as one of those fortunate,
),\,,• (No this Mr.
council there will not be one dissenting or peshaps unfortunate, individuals, who would have.to ascer.
111,.,'tte llobera,_ol hear, hear, and applause.) tain next November whether or not he would longer continuo
subje'es nwaGladstone : I was not aware, Mr. Mayor,- to bo a member of the council, he would risk.i
ihis chance of
sedes,oatin to hold a place among tire matters for the honoutro by art
eorntce
(hedeclaring,ri that e approved of
tlllen4 'teed to Y, or else I should certainly have the sale o p p y , ]rear) or salon in fact it was.
eon st_hoett
heuestiPorne.pare myself for a few observations I (Hear, hear.) If they took the interest at 4 per cent. (and
but g to I had, unhappily, not arrived they had no right to value money, in the long run, higher than
earn 40_ leer of what fell from Mr. Hornby, at tine rate of 4. per cent., for that
.was the rate that was
e,,,try'ou% character
others that his remarks were of that temperate calculated by Life Insurance Companies), they would find
I osY 0c,610 which generally distinguishes him upon that they got for the whole of the land, less than into quantity
te',"4 very tn,,•,_ The concluding remarks of the last speaker. received" in exchange, without having to
.cut it up for streets,
tithfittetrreulypat:oetni disposed to agree with. lam not going now , £3 2s 6d per Near° yard. If the bargain were ratified, they
haeit: ntrileterSumb war as opposed to peace, or to would, as Itlr. Hornby had told them, receive £2,000 a year
matters which were the cause of the present war, at once for land that was now unproductive and lying waste,
viejyeeptrooterst, even if I stand alone, against and he (Mr. Dover) contended that if the land had first to be
tat Irtlß aristocratic (Hear.) I believe that we were the cut up into streets, then after the waste of land that should
ocratic mismanagement, and I merely place this take place for that purpose, they would have to get for every
_rotest anion hna ;! are going gt e various expressions of opinion square yard6d, to realise the price now offere.d.
th., that is
Pen to
forward. I think the question involved is (Hear, end cheers.) And lie would ask any man, he h.e
of maj°lit .o„great difference of opinion. I admit that owner of property, merchant or builder, whether any man in
s.
potrthheer I at
ltieej country are in favour of war, and approved his senses would give for that land any such price ? Those
wicoanrn ti:ib.ut that circumstance can by no means who refused to confirm the arrangements with the company, eparta
,or a acientious scruples of the minority. lam were bound to show the council a better and more valuable
lany discussion, and I merely desire to record appropriation of it. They had no right to come forward and

oration

FIN ANCt:

COMMITTEE-SALE OF THE SITE OF THE OLD