The Express.
London, England, 1861-06-01 00:00:00

JUNE 1,

number of members were present to constitute a house;
but

The subject then dropped.
IRON-CASED SHIPS IN THE ENGLISH AND
FRENCH NAVIES.

Sir J. PAKINOTON rose to call the attention of the
house to the comparative progress of England and France
in the construction of iron-Lased ships, and to put • ques-
tion to the government on the subject. M. ObevaDier,
writing to the boo member for Sunderland, said :—" You
have a full statement of our navy—that we have only one
iron-cased vessel, sod that * full year must elapse before we
have any more; and yet, notwithstanding all this, you
talk of Freon invading England." The noble lord
the Socretai7 to the Admiralty had spoken on that
subject, and be (Sir J. Pakingtoo) must say with perfect
fairness as to the state of both navies, and with all the in-
formation he possessed. (Hear.) What he stated was,
that the French navy was not what M. Chevallier repre-
sented it to be, but that the French government had at
that time six frigates covered in armour, either built or
being built. La Gloire was one ; and he added that, exclu-
sive of tire old butteries of the Russian war, they had either
built, or were building, five iron-cased gun-boats and four
vessels of a formidable character, which he called floating
batteneso. But his noblefriend (Lord C. Paget) added what he
(Sir J. Pakington) thought a most important assurance,
and to which be begged to call the attention of the noble
lord at the head of the government. The noble lord the
Secretary to the Admiralty told them that if they found so
much prevess was made over the water, or in any other
nation, in building those ships it would be the duty of the
government to come down to the house and state frankly
what was going on. (Hear, hear.) But the information
which he had received from Admiral Elliot yesterday was
not exactly the same. Admiral Elliot was an officer of
high character and honour, and had told him
of what he bad himself seen within the last
fortnight, while his noble friend the Secretary to
the Admiralty ofcourse derived his information from others.
There were two other frigates building at Toulon which
Admiral Elliot had not visited, and ten others, which Admi-
ral Elliot had seen building, every one of which would be
,1 larger than La Weise, and was intended to be an improve-
' meat upon that vessel. Ten of the new ships would be,
like la Moire, of wood plated with iron ; and two of them
wholly of iron. Besides these 13 frigates, there were two
ships which had been described by the noble lord as ships of
a large size, and as carrying 52 guns each, instead of which
they were rally vessels of • most remarkable character.
They were line.of-battle ships carrying two decks of guns
upon each side, of • tonnage exceeding 4,000 tons, and but
little inferior to that of the Black Prince and Warrior.
They were, however, pierced for 100 guns each. They were
thus of • strength never heard of before. Fifty-two of these
guns, 28 on each side, would be wholly covered with
armour, and it was intended that the rest should
be partially covered. These two ships were to
be called the Solferino and the Magenta, and it
was intended that they should be launched next month
(June), on the anniversaries of the battles whosenamea they
respectively bore. Such was the strength of the French
armour-covered navy. They had these 15 ships; and the
nine mentioned by the noble lord, namely, four formidable
batteries and five gunboats—in all 24. What, now, was
our state of preparation in England! We had the Warrior
and the Black Priem ; which were superior in tonnage to
the Solferino and Magenta, but with only 40 guns each.
We had the Defiance and the Resistance, which, with
every wish to. speak of them with respect, be could acs bat
consider inferior to any of the 13 he had referred to. (Lord
C. PAGET made • gesture of denial.] Well, he hoped the
noble lord was right. Then we had two of • class inter.
mediate between the Warrior and the Resistance. There
was • seventh which the noble lord raid was going to be
built in the government yard at Chatham ; but that
was not even begun yet. Admiral Elliot assured him that
not only were the French thus in advance of us, hut in
every one of the yards which he had visited the utmost
efforts were making to press on the work to completion.
He (the right hon. baronet) had no wish to excite alarm,
but he had felt it his duty to communicate to the house the
information which he had received, and which was of this
startling nature. He would not discuss the motives of the
French government, foe every one would be able to judge
for himself what was the ultimate object of these prepara-
tions on the part of France ; but he wished thus
publicly to draw attention to efforts which, if not
met Ly corresponding efforts on the part of this
country, would rapidly reduce us to the position
of the second maritime power in Europe. It
was impassible to exaggerate the importance of
the subject. Was, or was not, what he had stated the
truth and if it was, what were the intentions of the go-
vernment ! The matter ought not to be looked on as •
party one ; but he could not help feeling regret that her
Majesty's government had not fully considered it before
they had needlessly thrown away a large amount of public
revenue. (Cheers, and " Oh, oh.") lie could easily on-
derstaud that that remark might not be acceptable when he
considered how recent had been the struggle ; but he had
not made it from any party motive. There was no one
that believed more implicitly than he that the noble
viscount was anxious to maintain the maritime supremacy
of this country. (Chows.) Thu noble lord had received
within the List few days one of the highest eons-
plinieuta • public man could receive, and that,
too, from a gentleman of high station and character—for
be said that the noble lord had the heart of an Englishman
and the head of a statesman. No party differences could
prover,: him (Sir J. Pakingtea) from subscribing to that
opinion. He hoped that he should himself receive credit
for half the same compliment, namely, that he had an Eog-
bah heart ; and it was because he felt like an English-
man that he had been impelled to bring the subject forward.
(Cheers.) Hs regretted that the pledge which his noble
friend (Lewd C. Paget) had gives last February so far es he
was able to give it, had not been fulfilled, and that the fresh
efforts which had been made across the water had not called
forth fresh exertions at borne. He hoped that the noble
lord—to whom, he had reason to believe, the same informa-
-1 tion bad already been communicated—would feel with himthe
exceeding gravity of the case, and would be able to tell the
house that uo financialconsideratione should prevent bon from
using every possible endeavour to maintain the maritime su-
premacy of the country. (Cheers.)
Admiral WALCOTT had received from Admiral Elliot
the same information which the right lion. gentleman had
just laid before the house, and be was satisfied that before
long the French would be able to place in the Channel a
fleet which would be perfectly irresistible, unless threepenny
made greater exertions to place itself on an equality with
them in this matter of armour.covered ships.
Mr. LINDSAY thought the naval power of England
should he equal to that of France and of any
other European power combined. The noble lord the
Secretary to the Admiralty admitted that they had 17 line-
' of-battle ships more than all the nations of Europe put to
gather. (Hear, bear.) France bad six iron ships, carrying
from 36 to 52 goes. The right hon. laronet made a great
deal of the Magenta and Solferino, but those vessels were
not to be compared to the Warrior or Black Prince. On
the otherhaad, we had seven !roe-eased ships built or build-
ing. The Warrior war. equal to two La Gloires. It was
double in size and carried twice the weight of meta/. That
was the case also with regard to the Black Prince. Neither
La Gloire, L'lnviecible, or La Normandie was to be
compared with those vessels. In imn-cased vowels, there-
' fore, they were before France. Prance bad four batteries,
mounting fourteen guns each, but these were for the pro.
tection of the harbours. She had five gunboats, each
mounting two guns. Surely there was nothing in such a
naval (tree to alarm this country, or justify the right hon.
gentleman in urging the house to spend more money on our
navy. The statement of the right hon. baronet, coming as
it did from one who once held the high office of First Lord
'of the Admiralty, was calculated to create great and unne-
cessary alarm in the minds of the people, and was calculated
to lead them into trouble with the Emperor of the
French. (Cheer.)
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE said the statement which
had been made by the right hon. gentleman was an alarm-
ing one, and it was the more alarming when they coo-
sidered that the government, which he believed possessed
the information which was that day made public, had last
night voted away money which, before the end of the year,
might be required for more important purposes.
Mr. DAIAILISH suggested that the government should
send over to France two or three gentlemen as a committee
to examine into the state of the French navy, aed lie had
no doubt that the French government would give to such a
committee every facility for seeing their dockyards, and that
it would be found that a very differeut report would be
made to those that had retched the house.

Lord C. PAGET had listened very attentively to the
tipeech of his right friend (Sir John Pakington), and was
hound to err it was perfectly true that the French wore
making considerable progress in the building of these lino-
eaied ship.. There wee no doubt that within the last few
months they had kid down, and were preparing to lay
down, nine more of these iron ships. Bat the right hon.
gentleman had talked of them as if they were growing
up like mushrooms. The fact was that the French were
not using any undue exertions in this respect, but
tle•r had very vast dockyards and were constantly
building, and of late years they had given almost undivided
attention to this very powerful class of vessels. There was,
however, no Beason to suppose that we were going suddenly
to be overwhelmed with a vast fleet of iron vessels. The
right boa. gentleman told the house that the French were
building the Magenta end the Solferino, vessels et lOC guns
each, and while he (Lord C. Paget) w►s most happy to give '
his testimony to the merit and ability of Admiral
Elliot, and to express biz convictiou that he had
given • faithful report of what he saw in the
French dockyards, he thought the right honourable
gentlemen bad mistaken the gallant admiral's meaning. It
was true that the Magenta and Solferino were pierced with
100 ports, but that did not represent that those vessels
were to carry 100 guns, and indeed they had not the &da-
-1 Mon to carry that number. The Warrior was called • 40-
gun ship, but if guns were put into all her ports her arma.
meet might be very nearly doubled. It would be very on.
wise to arm any of these ships with more guns than they
could curry in their protected batteries, and the Magenta
and Solfenno were built to carry 62 glum It was true that
the Warrior only carried 40 guns, bet our ships were
mode to carry 100-pound Armstrong guns, while the French
ships were not so large or so powerful and had not the fie-
t+tion for the wee number of gune of the same weight. He
had intended when the navy estimates came before the
house to make a statement with regard to the intentions of
the government in building these ships, but the subject
tihad fullyb ediweenouusonldsedfreqtbehueetntly
hdireno
necessary ;ttb.thh.rinkbouiiityonsatifuttlity,iTriegoxbapevatie.-
meet had watched very carefully what was taking

1861.

place in France, and had determined to built
Ave additional wooden iron-cased ship in the govern-
ment dockyards. This would not cause any addition to the
estimates, as they had frames of timbers which had been
out out fur line.of-battle ships, and by giving those vessels
additional flotation and additional length they would have
the power of carrying eery powerful armaments, and would
bear also casing with armour. With regard to what the
bon. member for Portsmouth had stated, no doubt may
interesting reports would be obtained from the committee
now sitting as to the best means of casing iron ships, mid las
believed the result of the experiments now being made
would be of great service in the construction of iron-cased
ships.