The Express.
London, England, 1858-02-19 00:00:00

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PRIVATE BUSINESS.
Second reedlngs.-1. Border Counties Railway ;2.
Dublin and Meath Railway Bill.
•
NO OP lON.
THE LORD-LIEUTENANCY ENANCYMOT OP IRELAND.
Mr. ROEBUCK gave notice that an that day fortnight
he &odd cell the attention of the house to the subject of the
vice-royalty of Ireland, in the words of his note which stood
an the mar.
CIIIIRCH-RATES BILL.
Kr. PACKE gave notke that on the motion for going
into cenuoittes on the Church-Rota Abolition Bill, he should
move AM the house do go into committee on that day air
isiontba.

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL.
Mr. WISE gave notice that on Thursday, March 4, he
nosh! move—" That the house is of oMIon that the nom-
merinos nth' select committee of 1860 on official mines,
to dimatinue the salary of the Lord Privy Seal, and to
transfer the dines of that minister to some other department
of the goveramitthrld be carried into ellen" (Hear.)
lAN RAILWAYS.
Mr. LIDDELL gave notice that that day fortnight he
&odd cell inmates to the subject of the delay in the con-
Monks of railways in India, with a view to an inquiry into
the cause of that delay. (Hear, hear.)
CHANCELLOR OP THE DIOCESE OF MAN-
CHESTER.
Mr. HADFIELD begged to salt the Secretary of State for
the Hone Deportment miler what authority the Bishop of
Manbeeter had 'mann a chancellor of the diocese of
Manchester ? Whether Dr. Hayford, recently appointed
enieerer el the theme of Probate, still hold the snow of
chancellor of the diocese of Manchester; and, if he did,
whether be weld be permitted to hold both offices ? Whether
Mr. Joha Etude, recently appointed registrar for the city of
Manchester and hundred of Salford, was to be permitted to
hold the office of secretary to the Bishop of Manchester, and
the other anon held by him under the bishop or in con-
anion with the diocese or archdeaoonry of Manchester?
Sir G. GREY said that the first question related to a sub-
ject with which the government had nothing to do, and which
they could not with in any way. The Bishop of
Manchester Led appointed a chancellor ander the general
authority of he omoe. A bishop wee required to appoint
one, and if he did not, the archbishop was entitled to do so.
There had been no commonicedon as the subject between
the government and the bishop ; cad am to the legal appoint-
ments, he couldgive no information to the bon. gentleman.
CHARITY COMMISSIONERS.
Mr. HOPWOOD begged to ask the Secretary of State
kg the Home Department, whether it was the intention:of
the government
to tab aay steps for enlarging the of
the firity C 0011111161111•111, with a view to aim • ing the
proceedings between them and the Court of Chancery.
Mr. BAINES mid—The government has an at present
sours to the opinion that it is advisable to tong to • measure
rehrence to this subject.
ARMY MEDICAL DEPARTMENT.
Mr. GROOAN begged to ask the U.S., Secretary for
War when the warrant I. merino to the medical depart-
sment al the may, la acgardeme with the recommendation
ne emeelese, would be herd ?
Bit J. RAMSDEN—The abject is at present ender the
maithretka nth, goverment; but the recommendations
nth' eamiselea are se mien and so important that great
thinned= is neseemary beige they can be finally adopted.
It is lanmenie therelize for me to state the preen time
when the Innen will come into
THE LORD•LIBUTENAMtia: IRELAND.
Lard PALMERSTON presented • petition front the in-
'Minute of Dublin represented at a public Nesting and
and
egad by the Lord Mayor, praying that the cam of Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland might not be abolished. (Hoer.)
OENM.AL WINDHAM.
General CODRINOTON begged to an the First Lord of
the Treasury, whether any additional denten had bees err
staved by the government from the Commander-in-Chid
and from the Governor-General in India, referring to the
operations of General Wiadham in the detest,. of Cawnpore
in November last.

Lord PALMERSTON—I rather think a communication
on the subject has been received at the India House. My
noble and gallant friend knows that there is no direct com-
munication between the Governor-General and any part of
her Majesty's government; but I believe I may venture to
say that explanations have been given which completely
acquit General Windham from any blame connected with
the operations at Cawnpore, which molted in the Ices of EL
and camp. An inquiry is going on in India with
rhrgar tae the conduct of certain other persona who are said to
be in fault on that occasion, and I believe I am justified in
marteig that Sir Colin Campbell is satiated that General
Windham displayed on this, as he has done on all other occa-
sions, the qualities for which he is so much distingniahed.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

The SeariiinirrTboSitoarl c;Voilllembers having
motions out the paper, when
Lord PALICERSTON aid—l will venture to appeal to
the courtesy of my hoe. and learned friend the member for
Sheffield, wbeesmotion stands first on the paper, to allow the
skewer debate on the government of India to proceed.
Mr. ROEBUCK—I ban done the deed before I was asked
by the noble lord.
Lord PALMERSTON—I hope those hon. gentlemen also
whose motions are on the paper will follow the courteous
example of my hon. and learned friend, and allow the ad-
jeerer debate to go on.
The motions were then, with leave, withdraw*, and the
hour proceeded to the orders of the day.
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA BILL.
Colonel SYKES resumed the debate on this bill. After
repudiating the character of en apologist of the court of
directors, he noticed the conflicting reasons weed dß-
(rent members of the government for introducing thmm-
sure, especially Lord Palmerston and Sir C. Lewis, the latter
of whom, he said had affirmed that the East India Com•
ray bad dor nothing at all towards the acquisition of our
magnificent Indian empire. He (Colonel Sykes) considered
that Mr. Whiteside had completely crushed the arguments
of Sir C. Lewis, and he stated the results of official docu-
ments to show that Mr. Blaney bad committed • grievous
error la reference to the pressure of taxation in India.
He declared that he had seen in one street in England
more human misery than in • whole province in
India. He then disc-nerd the objection offered to the
existing retina founded upon the alleged lemony°.
Meows attending the double government, showing also
from official evidence, the celerity with which the prodigious
mass of bursae wee despatched by the court of directors.
The delays in the Board of Control, he observed, arose from
the board's lutetium°e with minute details—an interference
which was never contemplated in Be constitution. Hs re-
furred to the peovides• in Mr. Fox's bill, which his
sea gentle measure compared with the one before Mo regarded
Upon the subject of the mutiny, he had no doubt that it
was a military one, arising from • religious panic; but
he believed there was no sympathy, no complicity,
In the Bengal army at large until the punish-
ment at Meerut. He defended the East India Company
against the charge of indifference to the extension of Chris-
tianity, detailing the number of missionaries, of schools,
and scholars, and the general progress of Christian labour
in India, to which the Indian government, he said, offered no
obstruction whatever. Highly approving the propagation of
or holy religion there, yet, for our own sakes he recom-
mended that the prosecution of that object should be con-
ducted with caution, prudence, and circumspection, rellolll.
bering the inflammable material' we have to deal with. He
urged, from examples, the danger of leaving in the bands of
the ministers of the crown the uncontrolled appointment of
high officers is India, ineisting that without a guarantee that
experienced men would be selauted, thoroughly ac-
quainted with the temperament of the people, our
authority there would not be safe. (Hear.) Even at
the present dose the court had no power to interfere in mili-
tary appointments; and this wee the great curse of India.
(Hear, hear.) Military appointments were made by the
War-office; and all the court could do was to refuse to make
him a member of the council ; for the two things generally
went together. The consequences of this power of
without any check had led to most unhappy results.
Sir John Credock, es he bad already stated, wee • military
martinet, who was perfectly ignorant of the prejudices of the
Madras soldiers, and who caused the unfortunate mutiny at
Vonore. An amiable °Moor, but one quite Incompetent from
the state of his health, wee appointed to the command of the
Cahoot force ; and the result wee, that either owing to a
want of energy, or on account of his ill-health, his troops
were lost to • man. One Europeen doctor alone escaped
out of 16,000 men. (Hear, hear.) He (Colonel Sykes)
had seen a commander-in-chief come to be 'worn in, who
was scarcely able to rise to return thanks, and who, be be-
lieved, never mounted his horse during the whole time be
woe In India. (Hear, hear.) He had seen another com-
smander-ineddef ewers In who, on retiring from the court-
room, would have can against a screen from blindness if it
bad not been for the Interition of a director. (Laughter.)
Is anather case an officer had been appointed who wee a man
of great ability, but who was utterly ignorant of the feeling,
of the natives, and we., therefore, utterly unfit to command
an army of 120,000 men—men who on some points were so
difficult to rare but who, if properly led, would fight for
you Sobreon and Ferozeshah
, and a hundred such battles.
(Cheers) Whatever alterations might take place, be trusted
that soma provision would be made to secure officers to com-
mand our Indian armies who should at all events be free
from physical infirmity, and should possess some know-
ledge of the country and the people. (Cheers.) In
the remarks which bad been made on the subject
of patronage no account had been taken of the enormous
number of uocormanted officers in India, of whom there
were some 10,000, or 15,000, or more. (Hear, beer) If the
proposed changes were effected, what would be easier than
tot a constituent to write to his representative, saying .
' Glee So-and-so a note to the Governor of Bengal or
Madras to provide for him." (Hear, hear.) No doubt there
had rem • good der of this sort of thing already, but they
might depend spots It that there would be • good des/ more
whim the cheek of Leadenbell-street was removed. (Hear,
bier.) After all, was there anythieg in the peat management
of ear colonies that would hold nut any hope or pros-
pect et • better administration of Indian affairs, if they
were placed under the direct control of her Majesty s
government? Were we to go through en ordeal of
ignominious Masts and the ultimate for of ,our pow...aims/

like that which betel us in North America ? Were we to
have • returnee like that in Canada ? Wee we to have
moceselon of hostilities, like the Kaffir wars, and the vistaed
ladspandence of the inhabitente 1' Yet all the things would
he possible if the government of India were entrusted to men
umeoquainted with the country and its people. (Cheers.)
Renoir came to a subject of deep important, to every gen-
tleman that eat on that aide of the house He (the pl-
ant colonel) was • liberal, and perhaps something more ; but
be considered himself a eonetitational whig—st present.
iLtiLtt:.) He was for Queen, Lords, and Commons. At
he had seemed his constituents, as no doubt most
of the gentlemen whom he was now more particularly ad-
dressing had also done, that he would assist in oarryag •
meatus for the reform of that house. (Hear, hear.) Now
what was the object of that measure to be P Would it be to
hareem the power of the minister P (Cheers.) He
premed not. Surely it would rather be to increase
the Warne. of the people in that hones, sad to diminish the
parer of the government. (Cheers.) If, therefore, he had
to go back to his constituents—and he hoped he should be
Nei book to them very soon, with a Reform Act in his band
—(them)—he should be ashamed to tell them that he had
veiled for reform, and at the same time for a bill that made
the prime mutter a despot. (Lend cheers.) Unhappily, he
(the gallutpokeel) we. not insensible to the claims of a
gifting'. Ha had read Locks, and on logical grounds alone
he should hays been constreined to vote against the bill, even
if be did net care • fazthfra for it on other accounts.
(Chews.) The noble lord of rower intended that there
is • sad staidetent policy for India • but
wee hasempatitde with **political clingss
rierne tellifenapiese. -Anse 178 e there had
beeil illiNi74.llll of the Board of Control, so
ant the atria Ille of each bad been on the average just
31 menthe and • half. (Hear, hew.) A consistent policy
wad tans have been obviosudy impossible but for tl:caes:.
-
moment body, which had been sitting all this time in i
bedieetrest. (Choate.) A question had been raised with
nprd to the mode in which this bill had been introduced.
There lad been no immediate pressure upon the government,
sad so allsotkaa of wrong bad been bought agent the
Board of Dheoton. But surely some reason ought to have
been shown before the government took the step of holding
up fa • degraded light before all Europe 18 gentleman of
charade end reputation. (Hear, hear.) The hon. mem-
ber for Reigate and that the Introduction of the Queen's
name in India would be equivalent to an army of ten thou-
Nand men. No doubt the hon. member (Sir H.
Rawlinson) we a men of great ability—asp anantiquary. (Laughan ter and cheers.
of ) India. The ut he dietej
the baocitai..r tlem's knowledge In
obliged to give him some assistancelu
inr order to make out his qualiacation for the seat to which
he had been nominated. It was necessary that he should
have been ton years in India; and they had to refer to the
Institutes of Afghan to prove that that °wintry was in India.
In feet, instead of thirty years' Indian experience, the hon.
gentleman had had tan years' experience of a Mahomsdan
people. The hoe. gentleman told them that tQueen's
name would be an element of
her.
• but he ought to have
known better. (lieu, hear. He most have per-
fectly well that there had not • Queen upon the throne
of Delhi for oil onturies. He ought to have known, again,
that there never had been a Queen upon. any of the five
thrones of the ANSA, which bad been formed out of the
empire of the Great Mogul. The placing of women in such
a position would be clearly exceptional, for the Ma-
homedan law did not permit females to wield autho-
rity. (Hear, hear.) It was absolutely impossible, there-
fore, toe the people of India to appreciate the enthu-
data loyalty, he might my the love, which Englishmen
felt foe. their. Queen. Supposing that the government were
treadened to her Majesty, she would have to be called by
the Makenedens the Padishah Begum—(laughter)—
that was to may, the wife of the King. But where was the
Kw (Hear hear.) Again, amongst the Hindoos she
would be called the Mahatmas*, • title equally unconnected
with the idea of political authority—the exerciee of which the
Hindoos allowed to women no more than did the Ma-
holudene. (Hear, hear.) There might have been one or
two cases in which females had been regents for their eons,
but melee alrae had always been the object of the respect of
thepeople. (Chews.) Lot the Queen's name be introduced,
H they taleased, but let it be dens at a proper time.
(Hear, hear.) This was not a proper time. (Cheers.)
Thom wee now surging In India • biding of panic and slams,
which might bunt out at any moment from one tad
of the empire to the other, from the Himalayas to Cape Co-
mma ; and a change of government could not bat be produc-
tive of evil consequences. In the first place the Sepoys would
say, " This mutiny has been so far eaccustol that it has ap-
ed one government ; we have only to try it again and we
shall upset another." (Cheers.) It was a remarkable fact
that out of 79,000 men Sir Colin Campbell could only muster
a force of 8,000 men in the field, owing to the dispersion of
his forces; end therefore it would be perfectly absurd to
suppose that they could get on in India without a very large
native army; and they could never have that without le-
wetting the prejudices of the native,. (Hear, hear.) Let
the present panic disappear, end the people might then pro-
petty appreciate any changes that might be made.
Waite couple of yews, end than if a change was necessery
do away with the Board of Control. (Laughter
and cheery.) Appoint a Minister for India, end
give him a council composed of • sufficient number of
men to get through the sixteen thousand communications he
had told the hones of. Let than be men of character and
independence, and, above all things, preserve the elective
principle, otherwise their mansions of constitutional prin-
ciples would not be worth a rush. (Loud cheers.) By this
MM. they might govern India well, and keep its adminis-
tration tree from party influences. (Chan.) He would
conclude these observations with the words of • resolution
which had been passed at the Rut India House after • four
days' debate—a debate that for ability, eloquence, prudence,
and sound judgment, would have dons honour to the Home
of Commons itself. (Hear, hear.) That resolution, which
had been adopted unanimously, woe in the following words
" That the proposed transfer of the governing powers of the
East India Company to the crown is opposed to the rights
and privileges of the East India Company, is fraught with
danger to the constitutional interests of England, is perilous
to the esfety of our Indian empire." (Loud cheers.)
Sir C. WOOD maintained that circumstances of suf-
ficient gravity had moaned In India to render It ad-
viaable that they should consider how the future govern-
ment of India might best be constituted and carried on.
He attached no blame whatever to any portion of the
government of India, at home or in that country, for what
was done. But it was impossible to wooed from ourselves
that • great crisis had occurred, that a serious check had been
given to our government in that country, and that in looking
forward we mast, to no. an old expression, set our houss
order, and put our government on such a footing as would
ensure the proper administration of affairs in that country.
We bad • large, well disciplined, well eppotned native Army,
of whose fidelity up to the last moment there was no doubt.
No men bad better opportunities of judging, or stronger In-
ducements to ascertain the truth, than thou officers whose
lives depended, from moment to moment, upon the fidelity
of their men; and even up to the last moment those officer.
enswered for their fidelity. (Hear.) That could not be the
rose again, at any rate with regard to the Bengal army.
The Bombay army had been slightly tainted, but it had been
pacified. Five yeses ago it had been strongly urged on
I government to amalgamate the armies of the three peed-
deneies. Had this been done it was probable that the revolt
would have been much more wide, and more continuous than
it had been ; as It was, the disaffection which spread so widely
in ow army hardly reached the others. (Hear, hear) Of
coarse it we Impossible to restore such an army as that. It
was squally inipresible that a native army of a certain amount
should not exist in that country; because no fines of
Europeans could be expected to perform all the duties re-
quired. But we must neeesearily have • much larger
European fora in India than we had hitherto bad. (Hear,
hear.) It was impossible, otter the experience of the
last year, to teem India with 30,000 or 36,000
European troop ; and the meet effective means
would be to abolish the distraction between the Queen's
troop! and the company's troops. (Hear, beer.) There
were Jealousies between the two armies—jealousies which
even the present Mete of allege bad not altogether quenched.
Would it not be wise that the whole army should be the
Queen's army—that those jealousies and differences should
be at once put, en end to, and no room left for them ? (Hem
hear.) Would it not encore greater uniformity, greater;
unity, and greater spirit in the administratiou of the army if
the whole of it was adopted as the Queen's army ? At sit
emote, there ought to be no distinction between the officers
of one and of the other. (Hear, hear,) The same argument
in a minor degree applied to the coats. They had the
Queens count, end the Sadder courts. Five years ego the
government was moat anxious to amalgamate them, bat the
arrangement ha I not been carried into effect--
the only mason being the jeelensica between the two.
By putting an end to the distinction they should go a long
way to remove those jealousies. (Hear, hear.) Another
reason weighed more strongly with the government. Items
important on the present occasion to put our government in
India on the etrongest possible footing, to leave no weak
place no sore which could be touched by any hand. They
should remember how many great authorities in that sod tha
other house had objected to the double form of government
—ha used the expression In the genes in which it was usually
employed. Whatever improvement had been In
India, it was said that the doable government hadi Vete the
obstacle; whatever delay occurred, it was attributed to the
form of the government. Was that note source of weakness
that, whenever a desirable alteration was proposed, the form
of government was Mated to be the obstacle, not by ordinary
or mesa aUtbefidell, but by many who were entitled
to the gristle* weight ? Wee it not a manses that an
organised cheap la the form of government should be pro-
posed as • remedy fie every rains, evil that existed P Did
hon. tless. suppose that the government so attacked. so
316Nedgulted by time coneant samba weld command that
respect In India which it wee desimbie end esuetrial that the
r=ritent should cunraand? It wee not new as ft was in
yeas, when time rather Mau Medea separate" us
from that tonatry. English were now greedily
twisted tad read by natives in parts of India. They
knew se well as we did that attacks were made upon the form
of government la India, and that it was laughed at and
sidisolod by *my mu of son la We country. Wm

• that a drmunietanos likely top reothiecommand the respected the
people in Idia, who lltle et
any form of y government but a knew
monarchy, who
had no notion of a constitutional renal rat, or of
the check said to be exeraeal by the FAA India Com-
pany ? Might it not be wiree, especially now, to place the
government of India in such Arm that it would not be open
to those attacks, and would not appear, in the eyes of the
people of India, to be discredited by a large portion of the
parliamentary knowledge and talent of this country P It
would be of essential value to place the government In the
name of the sovereign, and thus entitle it to the respect of
native princes, and ensure that unity in the administration of
the whole ocomtry which could hardly be attained with the
conflicting authorities in the army and the law to which he
bad referred. Would any one say that the Court of Proprie-
tors and the Court of Directors, as elected by them, was a
form of government which any man in his menses would
devise if be were called on to cortittne a form agovernment
for India it (Hear.) It had arisen from the accidental dream-
aance of a trading company acquiring, in one form or
another, territorial jurisdiction over districts in India, which
had been increased from time to time. So long se the Rest
Indite Company was a trading company, it would have been
most unjust to deprive the members who subscribed a capital
of • voice in the c.holce of those who managed their affairs ;
just as It would be now to deprive the members of a joint
stock company of the right of choosing their own directors.
But since 1832, when all trading interest on the part of the
proprietors and directors ceased, when they trams simply
and solely trustees for the mown in the government of
India, that argument no longer applied. (Hess, beer.) The
wily question now wee, bow best to restibate this govern-
ing power for administering Indian affair? (Hear hear.)
The proprietors of India Stock had no moreinterest
in Indian affair, than the holders of Three per
Cent. Consols or of railway chart. At this mo-
ment, after the great events that had taken place
in India, when it was most essential toleas our go-
vernment on the firmest huh, and to present it most advan-
tageously to the natives, a change ought to be made which
would effect that object without any of the inconveniences
or disadvantages which had been anticipated from the go-
vernmeat of a responsible minister and council. The amend-
ment declared that the time was not advisable for the change.
It was not a little remarkable that is 1883 the same motion
was made, but made by those who were anxious to go further
than the government. Many of the same gentlemen were
nowt advocating delay In order that the government might
not go so far es they then proposed to go.
Mr. WILLOUGHBY was not wedded to any particular
scheme of government for India, and would be willing to
part with the East India Company provided a substitute
could be found from which better fruits could be reasonably
expected. But not a single individual connected with India
with whom be bad communicated, be said, had uttered
any other sentiment than that of dismay at the approaching
change, his objection to which arose from the effect which
he knew it would have upon the natives of India, who
would apprehend a change of policy that would take away
some of their most cherished privileges; and Ewa an impres-
don was made upon the native mind the effect would be more
serious than that of the reseed cartridges upon the aeye.
He iodated upon the great advantage of an independentbody
like the company being Interposed between the crown and
the local authority in India, sad denied that there was a
defected reepondbility in a double general government,whith
was not singular in our system of administration. The
patronage in India was now distributed amen just principles;
we were reaping the fruits of such a velem, and he could not
think favourably of a measure which would make •chaap in
Hat system He pointed out the extent of patronage which
the MU would place in the hands of the government without
a check, and the influence with which it would arm an un-
scrupulous minister. In replying to arguments in support of
the measure, be complained of the fallacies and errors which
pervaded ell discussions upon Indian topics, instancing the
subject of adoption the nature of which he explained ; and
he protested strongly against the charge brought against the
company's government, even in the pulpit, of ignoring our
faith in India, in refutation of which he read a passage from
a sermon of the late Bishop of Calcutta.
Mr. CAMPBELL said, having spent the greater part of
his days in India, he felt bound to say a few words. He
thought the opinion of men who had considerable pro at
stake in India was entitled to more weight in to the
MPredchange than that of men who had everything to
prompt action and everything to gain by delay. He
held In his hand a letter from one of the most extend
zemindars in Dacca, now residing in London, in which the
writer expressed the opinion that the change from the govern-
ment of the company to that of the Oren word produce
a most beneficial effect in India, and would smooth the
way for the restoration of pesos all over the country. The
opinion of this gentleman a native carrespondenta was in con-
formitifth that view.
Sir . LYTTON said the tight bon. gentleman who
was at e head of the Admiralty had made it a matter of
complaint against his hon. friend Me member for Huntingdon
(Mr. T. Baring) that he bad rested his objection to this bill
upon time. The right hon. gentleman know perfectly well
that a measure of such importance would have been allowed
to pre to the second reading if there were not something in
the period at which it was brought before them that was pe-
culiarly and clearly unfavourable to its introduction. Now,
with regard to the measure itself, he must declare that he
was not disposed to discuss it at any length. He, for one,
thought it was at once audacious, incomplete, and 111-cord-
deed. It was audacious because it exchanged an adminis-
trative body which, whatever might be its faults, was at all
events a check to every hasty or unwise proposition on the
part of the imperial government; for a set of irresponsible
nominee* bf the minister of the day—Omar, hear) ;
it was incomplete, because it did not afford a
single guarantee for that wholesome restraint upon
precipitate or despotic enactments which was supplied
by the checks which it was proposed to remove--(hear, hear)
—lt was ilkonsidered, because even on so simple a point as
the number of the council which it was proposed to create,
there was not a single gentleman practically acquainted
with India who did not tell them that the number was pre-
poetteortely Inadequate to the discharge of the business which
would have to be performed. It was still more unconsidered,
on a much more Important point. Her Majesty's govern-
ment said, and he had no doubt they honestly believed, that
their patronage would not be Increased by the bill, whereas
he would undertake to prove when they came to the consider-
ation of that question that it would be lammed enormously,
and increased in a direction which was dangerous with refer-
ence to the clad of gentlemen to whom it applied. He
owned he was not surprised to find that the measure was in-
exemplar and unconsidered, because it was not possible that
say one could devise • comprehensive scheme for the go-
vernmeet of India at a time when a revolt was raging—at a
thee when none of us knew how far that revolt would spread,
when no one knew what were the right remedies to be applied
with a view to its repreesios, and when all our thoughts
ought to be concentrated on the military means by which
we might rescue a handful of our countrymen from
the midst of a host of rebel/. Ho did not believe that
any.of the more eminent members of the board of directors
would coademend to sit as nominees at the board which
the noble lord proposed to establish. The Prerident of
the Board of Control shook his head, bat there was
nothing in it. (Laughter.) If the merit men in
the house were to meet In the legislative council
agar absolute sovereign, did any one mean to say that they
would retain the high-spirited intentions which they now
entertained? If duke were wanted, let them be called
11 clerks; bat if councillors were required, councillors let them
be. (Cheers.) It was said that under the new bill there
would be • superintending vigilance in the House of Com-
mons. But what information would the house be likely to
obtain ? Supposing a member should rise and sale the noble
viscount what were the intentions of the government with
respect to the Nitam, or what was proposed to be done at
the court of !kindle, the noble viscount might get up and
say, although he did not mean anything personal, the
question was exceedingly absurd. (Cheers and laughter.)
He believed the measure if envied out would be a most dan-
gerous one. Before we could be competent to judge with
discrimination and knowledge of the oriental policy we must
try to become orientate ourselves—we mutt make ourselves
familiar with Eastern policy, which was at variance with all
oar own institutions—we must know something of the forms
of • mythological religion which very few of us could com-
rebend, but which were so interwoven with the habits, de
opinions, the daily routine of a Hindoo's life, and without
making an accurate study of that religion it would be impos-
sible to frame laws to suit the population. (Hear.) If the bill
should papa there would never be any active interference
in the affairs of India, unless whenit was for the interests ed
party to assail some government, or to imitate the Chancellor
of the Exchequer by aspersing an illustrious name (Cheers.)
This was the moment in which we ought to give to the
authority established in India all the support of unanimity—
this was the moment when we ought not to stigmatise our
Own rale for the purposes of party—this was the time when
everything ought to be done for the maintenance of an em-
pire which had passed through the perils of a mutinous army,
but which was now to be exposed to the more dangerous
ordeal of organised favouritism and jobbery. (Cheers.)
That empire was won by the valour and
.enterpriss of the
middle class, and it was for the representatives of that class
now to determine whether it should be joopardimed by °Mehl
imbecility end ministerial corruption. (Loud cheers.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL Bud that the resolution directed
'genet the bill was bred upon the demand for delay, but
the reveres of that nisolaWn said bat little on the reasons
for delay ; they directed that argument to the principle of
the bill itself The country would not be °patented with this
mode of meeting the question. They had legislated for
catholic emancipation, for reform, for the ccendaws, to the
midst of great popular excitement. With readeo the s ab-
ject itself, he admitted that the company had done great
things, but circumetares had changed; remedies which
were good seventy years ago were good
ctn. tri=; Tit
what we now required was unity
had and con
very constitution ot the array excited the mistrust of
thethatliumoilLexieteine7rceet.upolitioisna.ctudtbsurelivrwamasytowouw4tdadeshie:Mative
Nothing
nthtunintheon
result of the troubles in our colonise if we had bad to en-
counter an organised native army ? The ftey zany had
been characterised Si the most costly a Lis
I abiram. As keg as we bad auk as army, we were never

d
e
:w was radarthmiu the i n
decide tt h
this h
before
system.eli dlnourthis hshaTingsaw at once tanhe sourceann
of danger, and upon that point the house and the
t
bW
I country were now Wiled upon to decide. They must have a
malty increased force of the Queen's troops in India and
this 0f Itself broke down the authority of the company. They
they eecidingentere:hiont the
oodd details of the
before them. The argument against subjecting Indian sub-
ly
jects to parliamentary discussion applied equally to
all other subjects, and should not be aowed to
be delayed. I quite allow (continued his lordship
fil
the great benefits that have accrued from the
independence that has always characterised the directors of
the Haat India Company. But I do not see how a body of
constituents like that of the East India proprietor can be
kept as the future foundation of the government of India.
Then ie something anomalous in the Pi
government of India in this way—and ek-yungbe theex-
pected that In making a change such a beefs of government
should be established. On the other hand, I uite admit
oedoptelfrfehb:,:thth:eheanthouF.be"edbidu(:lineear:mmen,PoregarThhearf
oth.)fghAngwts,t 161
tutubey
if it does not provide for objects that I think essential, I
shall be ready to join with those who can devise better soon-
Miss for the independence of the council. (Haar, hear.)
There is another object I should wish to keep in view, and
that object is the great services of India. (Hear, bear.) The
military service of India is one of the most noblep, the most
the of
dietinguished, m
the globe. I and the ost
ea successful that
should be k Int ever apeared
sopn
hoes that that
with all its honour', rwnrds, and emoluments, and I trust
with the same benefit. to India and to England that it lise
hitherto conferred. Yon may say it is a matter of no im-
portance whether we keep up this patronage for the middle
classes or nor. Bat that le not the point. The question is
whether or not these middle classes have not done all
for India we could wish—whether they are not men who
have, by great talent and persevering labour in a tropical
etirosea, raised themselves to high positions, and have
conducted thenualves in those stations in a manner equal to
that in which the best generals of Europe and the highest
authorities in Europe have conducted themselves in the wars
and negotiations of Europe? That being the case, nothiat
would make me consent to any provisions in the bill b which
that service can be injured or depreciated. There is
another point upon which I shouldwish to have some security,
but upon which I fear we must make up our minds not to
obtain it. I wish it could be said that in any plan that gives
the entire control of the government of India to the crown
we could prevent matters connected with that government
from being made the subject of party debate and party war-
fare in` this. home. (Hear, bear.) It is not that members
of this Souse are Inclined to take factious views upon Indian
questloes, but there are always certain members of this home
who have confidence in the government of the day, and certain
others who have not, that is, those who distrust their compe-
tence or their honesty, or perhaps both. (Hear, and laughter.)
Which every party is ins opposition is apt to look with an un-
favourable bias on meaaures that may have bens
adopted in India or in this country after the fullest consider.
ation, and on the =et sufficient grounds. We cannot pre-
vent debates occurring in this house on Indian affairs. We
have introduced questions upon other matters of govern-
ment—on foreign affairs—on colonial of sirs—many of them
of the utmost delicacy, and upon which one would say
priori nothing could be more dangerous, nothing
more calculated to throw difficulties in the
way of • satidactory settlement than to make
ecru matters the subject of popular discussion. But
that Is the principle of our existence; it is a principal feature
of our constitutional life, and we must submit to it in the
case of the Elsie., of India. We must look this question
fully in the face, and endeavour, with all the deliberation we
can commend, to come to a solution of a question, perhaps
the meat Important that hes ever been brought under the
notice of parliament—a question affecting the safety of the
peat empire with which we have been entrusted by Provi-
dence, as I believe, for the benefit of millions and millions of
the human nos I trust that we shall perform that duty
well, but I feel that we cannotwell, avoid it. (Cheers.)
Mr. DISRAELI said if he thought a change in the
direction recommended I,y her Majesty's Ministers would
draw the inhabitants of Hindoetan nearer to this country,
and improve their condition, he was not of opinion that the
ope
ration of thin measure would produce that effect; quite
contrary. There was one subject which had been lost
sight of in this discussion, namely, the financial part of the
cation. It was idle to pretend that there would be, after
change, any distinction between the finances of
IndraPnTedthoes of England ; that if the exchequer of India
was empty that of England would not be liable. If this be
true, before the house agreed to the introduction of this bill.
it should ask what wen to be the financial relations between
Basked and India. At this moment there was a deficit
in India of about 2,000,0001., and that deficiency would be
necessarily doubled and quadrupled. Before the house and
the country incurred this repontibility, they ought to know
the remarries of India, and how they were to be managed.
What was wanted was a total change in the local administra-
tion of ladle itself. The revenue derived from the land could
not be increased, and it was raised in a manner which ren-
dered it precarious. Reviewing the projected scheme of home
government for India, he insisted that it would be incompe-
tent to grapple with the details of Indian administration ;
that the president must trust to the Governor-General, who,
with a supremacy of power that would emit him
above ell control, must become a despot. Sir (con-
tinued the right honourable gentleman), it is a
win policy to establish the name of the Queen in India—
(ministerial cheers)—but if you want to do so, if you
want to substitute for the authority of the directors the
natural rights of the crown, it is in India you moat do it,
it is in India you must commence the change, it is in India
that the question of its good or bad government must
be decided. It is in India you must meet the consequences
of the great revolution you are about to effect ; it is there you
must meet the question of the military force, there you must
for the great financial question. You an no loafer
prepuce
the inevitable oonnexion between English and Indian
; you cannot allow deficits I. be established in India
any more than in England; and what steps can a council
of insignificant men take in the fan of such important con-
tingencies P (Hear, hear.) Indeed, if your Indian minis-
ter bad all the irifts of all the brilliant men that Eng-
land has ever produced, he could not fficiently
meet these questions of administration in a distant
land. And yet this house ie not to be considered
nab in taking the most fatal step which it was now
invited to adopt since I have bad any experience of parlia-
ment. (Hear.) I will not go Into the question which has
been touched by hon. members ; I will not go into the e flee t
which the proposed change may have in our free parlia-
mentary life, through the Increase of eetrousge that will be
placed in the hands of the crown. All them will develop
themselves in time. I wish on the present occasion to confine
myself to the financial points, which have net before been
touched on, which are of the moat paramount importance,
and which, before twelve months have elapsed, must exhibit
their coosequenor s in increased taxation in this country. Re-
member the impatience of the people at the close of last
war at the continuance of direct taxation; think upon
the present state of your finances. I am quite certain that
the Chancellor of the Exchequer must have had some anxious
nights already In preparing the ways and means for her
Majesty's dominions in Europe; but when his deficiency
shall be doubled, then I went to know what will be the effect
on your constituents then ? I want to know how you will
take off the war taxes which already have caus.d you so
much uneasiness ? I entreat the house to consider the sub-
ject from that point of view, and from it to consider the
motion of my hoe, friend, a motion made, I believe, without
any consultation with his political friends. I say that this
is not the time in which to legislate for India, until you
have a more mature plan. (Hear.) I will not my, although
it might be triumphantly and Irrefutably proved, that the
dame of rebellion ought first to be put out. I think that
that objection is sound and unanswerable, but I take one
impress
ulopeornertinnhithoz.e, but which wwhichhicllithlinkf,
it is th.my
dduott/
ato
members of this house to impress upon the country. They
are asked to take slops which will involve the country in pe-
cuniary emberramments which it is almost frightful to con-
template, and untd the boom has complete possession of the
financial resources of India, until ths house has the means of
availing itself of those resources, and of placing
them in a sound and healthy condition, don't let
us take a course which is not merely transferring the govern-
ment of that country from the company, but which is in
effect merely transferring the patronage of the company to
the ministry in Downing-street (Hear, bear.) I will not
gay that it has been proposed with no other object, but I
affirm that it can have no other effect. (Hear bear.) I
lament that this question has been brought forward at the
moment moment, although I am not surprised at the house
finding Woolf involved at this ninon in the mares of Indian
debate. Nobody could have expected that we should not be
called upon to discuss this questioa, that we should not be called
upon to inquire into the causes of the rebellion, and the
conduct of the war, into the conduct of the minister who with
Intis lathe condition which be has described did not hesitate
to light up the torch of wee both in Persia and China.
(Cheers.) That these circumstances should be inquired
into wee right, but the proposition before us is that we
should increase the power of those who we believe have
dealt most injuriously with power, to transfer authority to
tholes who have proved by their conduct and influence on
athouthoforirttyon:h7ees fhthotheenly
weedy*, thatpoisese they. arecHeanort,
bwzrrth)y
lofhotlisiso
that the home will hesitate long before they moist to
such a ...It. It I. very possible that after
caa
debate originated without any previous consultati
with the mover's political friends, a majority Day be
obtained hostile to the present motion. If party_." .0ot!
to be thought of, my hon. friend the member for 11.. tatgoon
tioahrheakictahharefL7gatien:hecoroverihtu;7l.l7
rightithawbio:lifttin"l:,:tipreiiniattnwyr.,iuswars.r7, ted.borcowes:.itleettC.pcoapmrrh.zramand_7:;:i
ethlettlen, that it WU impossible t
whenth atheasub:ratect:lowneohifchiwnhidillEchOgirklemmenos- tom
beougudhilcumealtnett74:ll

NOW. there lea very single Nod significant reason
men* net much to wet honour. and added
Mg, but dreerthek(s uedmadeffly tree.
dot so yN bed le gel rat Ind* Ina thane ifs
%dr (tsese, bear.) We kW Whine
o Wind In sessilds 1 trinffool
the quake effeillos, the posted refirffiabenli Z
happand within ae doesiden, dui not lest year
e wee edwedeet. Clentlemen went into the lobby ten-
, adds la the sainister end Ids geed dor, nag..
mid; the company will have to pay be IL
'tad degliter.) Bat that illusion is mow lieredit.
me kill hasiiSathers *olb ifemitity
, loam end Inns% mad ass medint bade.
within* a sedslommiderstion of des elm.
be greeted dellelon that ern wee deeded on=
was that aletu of the cabinet of
the Hoe= of niene with en Indieftudget,
the taus and lisendel seenegindte of an
this centre
_nd oentrffiete ons
mnooo eistrand we were not
besseprimed, then, that even the ministry could not
loom a Una to the lucid narrative ? (ffear;taa
law at parodies am over. The paradise is sr
■ fame misgovern India—you may in haute seize
to whack yen de not entitled, and invade terrier
t a our • bat so thing is quite clear, you will
for it. ( We have been dismssing this
r three or fade but no hot. genthrima has
ocinineended to leave the region of politics, and touch
-eon this enter point; thendoes I have matured to
.f< upset the esedderatiem of the house. If you •rrieh to
wise and • peudont seep, I recommend yyoou to wait till
received the boded of the of the He-
ro* ems hew yen stead with. respect to British
beide_ yen involvelvdeisivos is Indian *giddies.
d PAL.MIKOTON, Is reply, observed that Mr.
sell had enthavoured to frighten the house by a Mean-
difficulty. Nothlng,however, was more colliery to
'act. The bill would make no change in this re-
the distinction between the two exchequers would
but Todd be made nion clear and precise. The
♦ propose is the slighted change compatible with
out the views of the
_greatest part of
have spoken. (Haar, hear.) What we.propose is
Mier, o, already an Indian Council, consisting of five
- nominees of the crown, but having no direct corn-
...stain with its responsible deletes ..and we propose
abolition of that council, and the transference of its five
Awe, with the addition of certain others, to a new
-it, which would be placed in direct personal con:maxi-
with the responsible advisees of the crown. <Bear,
The right hon. gentleman in 1833 said he did not
'o the gorenuosat of India we. and who wee re-
for it ; but he appear. to-night to have found it
says that it is the Goventor-General. He dates
may do what you like—yon may either continue
any. or you may transfer the executive to the ad•
the crown—but that it is the Governor-Genera
after all, have the real authority', sad that if you
trot that authority, It is in India that you should
,our alteration.. But that opinion is diametrically
„Mu to the opinion upon which the hon. member for
(underlie has founded his resolution, for he objects to
o.nythiog with regard to India till the mutiny is
is said that the council will not be independent.
would it be advisable to have a council that would con-
`- resisting end theartin: the authority of a president
'to parliament and the country k I cannot conueive any
strings it that would be more objectionable. It must be a
council of advice, and not of control. (Hear, hear.) Again,
is said that the council chosen by the government would
obsequious to the government ; but I think that any
ant would be more likely to select those men who
most capable of giving them advice, rather than
would be subservient and flexible. (Hear, hear.)
to toe that the Arrangement we propose is the one
moat productive to the public benefit. (Hear,
trust the house will not be led away by the
1 we have heard, and will not be daunted
phantom with which the right hon. gentleman
Avowed to terrify the house. The measure we pro-
ne calculated at once to strengthen your home go-
at, and give a greater control over it to parliament.
bear.) I confess I have been surprised on oonstitu-
grounds at the objecticnv which have been brought to
by soma hon. gentleman. They would not on
allow parliement to interfere with the affairs of
they should suffer from being made the subject of
Inn gentlemen opposite, of course, know beet the
rhich faction will go, but still that is only an ordi-
i_ of parliamentary tactics. I have myself no
appiebensiona that the good muse of the house will not
-etre, any attempts of that kind. (Cheers.) I trust, there-
`ot the house will not be led away either by the elo-
gi nth Alen of the comosiiios, or by the more sober
s of ';.O hon. member for Huntingdon, believing as
t the great bulk of the country have settled
uestiost in their own minds—believing as I do
their calm deliberate opinion that this
I ',bum of Indian government ought not to
We believe that this is the fittest moment to
change, and that no delay should take place. I
trust that the house will allow us to bring in the
that what it is before them they will give it their
oie attention, not for the porpow, of nurse, of de-
by amendment., but for the purposeof
as perfect ma possible a menace
which
will effect • grist public object and
greatly to the benefit of India. (Cheers.)
venture to that nothing has been done for the
our great empire in India so important as this
be, of parliament in its wisdom shall think fit to
((.oad cheers, and calls for a division.)
:WDEGATE rose and made a few observation., bat
and coutinoons were the calls for a division that not
reached
id
house di
Pee bedew in the bill
aidhaf
mak was received with laughter and blight cheering.
Ng we thou brought in and reed a first time. The
I meal was ("pointed for this day fortnight.
house ids adjourned at five minutes alter on, o'clock.

invs.—ln compliance with a request from
'ereign•ottice, we give publicity to the ful-

tee.—Foreign-ova, Feb. 18.—Her Majesty's
ibusador at Paris having, in pursuance of instrue-
- from the Earl of Clarendon, inquired of the
\ government whether BritiAt subjects will be
A to lend in France without passports when
no intention of proceeding into the int.-
also whether her Majesty's consuls will
power to grant passports to such persons to
,‘d to Paris or elsewhere, his Excellency has
informed by the French Minister for Foreign
that no person whatever will be permitted
France without a passport, nor will a eon-
paaspnrt given to any one who may have
landed without one be recognised."

understand that Sir James C. Melvin. having
•ted a service of fifty years, has fulfilled his
ipreftwit intention of retiring, and has resigned
of Secretary to the East India Company,
has held for nearly a quarter of a century.
lames Melvin has long been a distinguished
to the Home Service of the Cltnpany, and
. regarded as an eminent authority upon
luestions. He first came under public notice
when his evidence before the Parliamentary
ittees then sitting upon the affairs of India,
leach value to the Company. On each suc-
arliamentary inquiry importance has been
to his knowledge and opinions ; and, if we
c been n,sured that be intends to remain at
Jut India House during the present discussions
'arliament, we should especially regret his retire-
• this moment. As it is, the relief from his
tidies and the withdrawal of his attention
necessary details of office, may enable him
.ter to invist in the consideration of the prin-
upon which Indian affairs are in future to be
ted. We understand that he will be succeeded
I. D. Dickinson, who has long held the office
v-Seavtary at the„East:lndia House.

deputation, eonsisliag of Mr. Joseph Turnley,
'•r; Mr. Oconee Prartmy, Mr. William note,
William Gilpin. and Mr. William Jackson,
1 the Merriman Taylors' Company, waited ti
Excellency the Premien Minister by appointment o punn y last to pr., at an address of congratulat!oa to his
iiittanc... Prince Frederick William of Prussia on his
lighnese'.. marriage with bar Royal Highness the
Royal of England,
.0 ICA!. SOCIETY. Papers to be read
-1. " Oa the Gradual Rlorration of a part of the
Sicily," by Signor 0. G. Gemmellaro. 2. "On
Se•shella in a Peat-mom at Abernethy;' by
I
Ea 3. "On Striated Stowe and Sea-Shells at n Scotland," 67 3. P. Jamieson, Req. 4. "Oa
of Leval of the Couatry afar Tenby," by It.
. or COMMON COUNClL—Yesterday a ups-
.A wee held to consider a report of the whole court
to the bills in partiazoest tor the better regulation of
melioration. A report was metaled from the sub-com-
•-• whout the matter bad bees referred, stating that
,ct to the bill istrodarml tato parliament by the
1, wen of opinion that It would not be advisable to
further with it until the °plaices of the House of
bad he n expressed on the bill brought in by the
and that they bad directed the Remembranose,
, counsel, to hey bad
draft of a petition to par-
. easiest so touch of the inveTMONlit As was in-
sent with the bill introduced" er the corporation. The
.sty Town Clerk thee reed the pettiest to. Mr.
sod awed, and Deputy Lott seconded, the adoption of the
asort sad petition. Mr. Roes moved, and Mr. Seem.
aeconded, as ansied=ent to the *Sect that Ia all came of ea
analgassirtice or &violate of wards under a sew bill, the
!the wards so oonatitated should be ideated by the
The awelrbm' tray Se"atit'd by a Peat
tad the original seeks tarria utudi.issonsl7.

2
about. New, the
he sea wwidnek
hemaldhag, ben
sma lam last as
most et %skid
labia ss Warm
sod SWIM as tar
new sped
steam our ahead
hat to snide h
ei Nome aid;
• AHear,"rd lasi
ir' this bin h
between Indian a
erred without a
Why, the grates
lieunent was that
favoured the lion
detailing the taxi
to which this o
and foe whose
Who can be imp
find a hors to Its
But the days of p
Yoe ray in furs
pe ammo Mo with
rim wither • ea
bar to pa y foe it
rsmascr ire Wes
ceeinceaded to 1
U-
pg.g. opeveiC
Wee a wise sad a
you ham received
chequer, mad s ens
nuaace haem you
Lord PALMI
Dimwit had sad
Mal difficulty. I
the fact. The I
'pea ; the died
i I remain, but wool
chase we propm
carrying out
those who have a
•
this —Than
eascobsts, lamina
I satutimtion with
the abolition of
• members, with t
council. which w
cation with the n
hew.) The rig
know who the r,
eponetble fa it
out. He says it
that you may do
the company. or
irers of the cm
who will, after all
would control du
brie your alters
• oppoeite to the 0;
Huntingdon hes
dkturb anytlitog
ovw. It is said
Well, would it he
Mortally be redid'
responsible to part
arrangement that
comal of advice,
tt is said that the
he obsequious It
government soul
would be most •
men who would'
It appears to me
that will be most
• bear.) I trust
sophistries we I
by the phantom
has endeavoured
pose is one calcul
1 vernmeot, and gi
(Hear, hear) I
ti•nal ~,rounds at
the auction by as
any account albs
India, lest they sal
factkn. Hon gi
extent to which A
nary plea of p
apprehensions the
control any alien.
kr, that the hou
quer, of gtatka
arguments of the
I do that the I
this question it
that it is their
complicated &yeti
continue. We ti
nuke the chugs,
therefore trust tin
and that who
most serious atten
fasting It by
I rendering as p
I believe will,
tend greatly I
Lad I will realm
intemets of our FT
change will be, If
✓ue it. (Loud
Mr.NEWDEG
so loud and cnitu
a word reache.l lb
The house divi?
For briogit
Ageimst ..
The result wu
• Th. bill wee th
secind rsediag so
The bowls rum
Pr %ft
11 ronTs.-
the Foreign•ot
,
lowing:
"
itihetiohdor it I
lions from the
French govera:
permitted to la
they have no i
f riot ; and also
have power to
prom. d to I'ar
been informed
Affairs that IN
to land in Frac
Pal's passport
landed without
We under•is
completed a tei
long-expire:mit
the office of S
which he ha. h
I bar lames Mt
ornament to
has been rear
Indian question
la 1931, when
Committees the
proved of such
easily, Puritan
attached to his
had not been
the East India
in Parliament,
ment at this the
onerous duties
from the necem
the better to at
ciples upon whi
conducted. We
by Mr. J. 1). I)
of I)eputy-Secr
•
A deputation
the Matter ; Mr.
I. White, Mr. Willi.
• wardens of the h
hie lizetileacy lbs
MoyTnlast to pr
iaightices I
Whasnotlea's
• al of
CIItOLOhICAL
!elk u ,—I.
Coast of Sicily,"
Flints sad 1%6.51
I. Menial), Esq.
high levels la Scot
it I the Chasm of Li
Esq.
COP IPP or 0
dill court wee halt
• relative te tbe hilt
ths amplest/on.
amities to whowi tb
with respect to II
court, they were
proceed further
Cumulous bad bot
government, and
arated by COMM
Semen( 'grist so
consistent with ft)
Deputy Town Ch
Wood moved, and
report and pedtios
rouaded, an aa
arsigsreatioa or d
akteemen of ties on
eonaitueney. Tin
and the a
11.1
• 'a