The Express.
London, England, 1860-06-20 00:00:00

I.7xoF:ss, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JUNE : 20, 1860.

authority, that the majority of a parish may tax them-
selves for thereßairs of the church, had rim& t tow
perfe•tly just. He knew that church.mtes gave tame
to acritr..inioits discussionii, but was of opinion that those
very discumioes ...assumed a more lively interest to be
taken in the affsirs of the church. The law as it stood at
present answered its purpose in the great majority of
parishes, sod he therefore would not, especially after the
revelations of the designs of the dissenters, made before the
committee, be a party to the alteration of that law.
The Earl of supported the bill.
The Duke of RUTLAND should rote against the bill of
the noble lord, became he believed it would nut produce peace,
but eacourage the dissenters to proceed in their opposition
to the church ; because he felt that he should be relieving
his own property from • charge to which it was fairly
liable, and, abort all, because he felt it would deprive the
poor man of • right that had been handed down to hint
from time immemorial. (Hear.)

..ThM37akeof SOKERSif ;Sid that whatever might be
the opinion of various' individuals au this subject, there
could be no doubt that the present state of the law was
unsatisfactory and required asme chino. It was produc.
tire of disoontent and disunion. The payment of church rates
had now become • kind of nffigicaus test in the large towns,
and the result wee saes* *famous to the interests of the
church. It de admiSted that the law could act be en•
forced, and it was mat webs to ist in a law of that
kind. For these room le ehottkt vote far the second
reading of the bill.
The Doke of NEWCAffirLE said he did not rise for the
purpose of discussing the bill, but for the purpose of ea-
phoning the vote he was about to give. He came down to
the house inclined to vote on this question as he had done
two years ago, but his opinion devery much shaken both
by what had taken place recently in the House of Com-
mons, :and also in their lordships house. The ques-
tion ha. I been treated in quite a different
during the present year, and it must be apparent
to all that • compromise was now almost impossible
The noble earl (Grey) said that the suggestion contained in
the report of the committee was worse than the abolition of
the rate. He tharefore came to the conclusion, which he
did with the greatest hesitation and pain, that he should
best fulfil hie duty by voting for the second reading of the
bilL The noble doh, the mover of the amendment on the
present occasion was five years ago the author of • bill the
praunble of which ran in some such words as them :
" Whereas it is dminible that church rates should beabo-
limbed." The most rev. prelate also brought ins bill Ave years
ago which contained • chum &dame t het where church rates
had been successfully resisted for two years, they should
for ewer be abolished in that parish. Ou the present 00311.
Woe, however, the most rev. prelate conteoded that chi:rel-
eases should be held inviolable, and argued that they were
I matter ,if le and of perpetuity. His own expends.,
and the ku owlet of what was passing in his own neighbour-
loud, pros. ol to M that this question was making progress
is the country, and that church-rates were not only opposed
by dissenters, but by churchmen. For these reasons,
although he did not approve of the bill of hi+ noble Maud,
be should vote. though with pain and hesitation, for its
mood reading, in the hope that, in committee, some pro-
positioo for a fair and satisfactory settlement of this diffi-
cult question might be made. (Hear, hear.)
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY said he strongly
objected to the abolition of church rates, because he be-
lieved they were essential to the church. He would there-
fore make the collecti,n of church rates compulsory on
churchmen, but not on inseecters.
Th.' LIZ I of DERBY said he would not detain their lord.
ships long, lying well convinced that they would adhere to
tho opinion which they had formerly exproseed on this
question. lie should not have risen at ail but for what had
fallen from the noble duke who spoke last, and who stated
not only that he had changed his opinion, but that ho had
done so wholly irrespective of the merits of the question
itself. The noble duke said he shotid be extremely unwill.
Mg to see this, measure pas+ ; but in the belief that some
amendment might be adopted by their lordships, and ac-
cepted by the other house, he proposed to vote for the se-
coed reading of • measure which he considered dangerous
i. principle. The noble duke had founded his change of
opinion on the altered course which he said
bad been pursued by the House of Commons. That altered
1 course was a very coesiderable increase in the numbers
of that hones who wished to maintain the existing law.
(Hear, hear.) When be saw a majority diminishing from
74 to 59, then to 29, and at last to the ominous number of 9,
he th.eight that it indicated a considerable alteration of
feeling in favour of the maintenance of the principle of the
existinglaw. If the noble lord who opened the discards
had been • member of their lordships' booms lasi year, and
seen the overwhelming expression of opiaioa there, or if he
had been • member of the House of Commas this year
,
and had seen the dwindling majorities by which the bill
was supported there, he would have amassed the better
part of valour, and would not have brwaght it forward at
all. The noble duke had talked of the abeems of • os-
cillatory spirit. But on which side was that meet ?
(Hear, hear.) They were now called upon to dial, on the
ground that oincession and compromise were impasible, sad
that it was absolutely necessary to choose between the
maintenance of the existing law sad the entire abolition of
church rates. This was the language of all the eupporters
of the bill. This and that compromise bad been
this awl that endeavour to come to terms had =rent.
by the friend+ of the church—but the result had only been
that every compromise :old rifer which they had made for
the parley«, of showing their good feeling had been met
with the taunt that they were sacrificing their own princi-
ples, abandoning the whole ease, and bringing forward
mwsuros worse then total abolition. (Hear, hear.) Such
• was the spirit in which their concessions had been met ; and
it we.. too much for the noble duke now to get up and say
that he had changed his vote in consequence of there being
as absence of conciliatory spirit on the other side. (Hear.)
He (Lord Derby) protested against the allegation that the
recommendatiotia of the committee bad practically &ban-
' done-I the principle of church rates. They had maintained
the right of the majority of a periih to tax themselves fur
their own °Nixie—to levy a church rote by an equal rate,
, as oppeol to voluntary contributions ; and they hail re.
comnienalel that the law shout,' be strengthened fur the re-
°every of rates so impose' ; and if, fur peace.sake, they had
sonsentel to the exemption of certain ponds from the
common burden whi:h fell on the rest of the parishioners,
they had at theesnun time proVitlell that persons so exempted
should not be io any degree entitled to take part in the ad-
ministration of those Niels to which they did not contribute
their share. That might be an extreme concession, and not
eassistest with strict justice, but he was cot ethernet of it.
Those persons would not Le deprived of the rights of
parishioners; they would only be deprived of any
control over the application of feeds to which
they did not contribute. He repudiated the notion
that they had conceded the principle of the measure by this
exemption, and assorted that if there had been an
stades of oinciliation or cencession, it was Dot upon the
supporters of the existing law that that charge ought to
rest. They had eudeaviiured to meet their opponents more
than half •way ; but they said that there should he no alter-
native but absolute abolition of the existing law. If that
alternative wore fore el mon them, greatly as the friends of
the church objected to that law, and desirous as they were
to amend it. his choice was made without hesitation ; with
all its imperfections he would maintain the existing law as
against the entire abolition of church rates. (Hear.)
Lori LYVEDEN, in reply, said the debate had been
highly satisfactory to hire. as he hail nothing to answer.
The noble earl told him that be would have exercised • wise
discretion in not bringing forward this bill ; but he hail been
taught, in the sanie +big school in which the noble earl had
graduated—(n laugh)—never to give up a cause because it
was supported but by a minority. The noble earl professed
himself ready to justify the report of their lordshipis' com-
mittee ; but he did not go so fez as to my that he would
found • bill upon it.
Their lordships then divided:
For the second reading 3l
Against it
FISHERIES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This bill paused through committee.
ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS :IND REGISTRIES

(IRELAND) BILE
The report of the amendments on this bill was received
and agreed to.
HIGHLAND ROADS AND BRIDGER BILL.
The adjourned debate as the motion that the hones
should he put into committee on this bill was resumed.
Lord RED DALE mid he adhered to the objection
which he had formerly expreseed, namely, that by this bill
an especial favour was being shown to those gentlemen in
the county of Inverness whose interest it was that this bill
should pass, and to carry whose object the powers of the
Cominisooners of Supply had been called into operation.
Earl GRAS VILLE moved that the bill should be referred
to a select committee.

After some further conversation, in which Lord Abinger,
Earl Powys, and other noble lords took part,
Lord REDESDALE adhered to his objection, and their
lordships divided on the qua that the house do now go
into comaiittea
The stubs wen:
Conant' 26
Non Contario 25-1
The aaiwuareemat was reseived with some laughter.
The bill the. pawed through committee.
INFANTW NATIBIAGES ACT AMENDMENT DILL.
This bin was read a third time and passed.
Their kadslups rose at 20 initiates past 10.

HOUSE OF 00113101,18.—Tuaway, Jou 19.
(Continued hem yesterday's irrais.)
THE IRISH TENURE AND KENT OF
__ LAND BILL

Clauses up to 20 were to, with amendment+ ne-
weswary to maka them with the above ►lteration.
TIM slim union Wore and the sitting was sus-
pended far Um, mod two hour,.
Tie beam all eilsek.

=MTV OF TURIN.
IDtOLAZI_ paelposed the question of which he
Ind atm Intim reisaine to the mood article of the ahoy*
breay.
IffrriairingnAL E/TINATES.
_

Nr. ATNTON embed the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether the new gnerned 1/ him in the budget wash!
be suffielnet le 'mei Ike swim required for the CO/11114
J. bleis the weir in Odes and say other conies.
pitted iorare and if the were inrufilcient,
when he hateeded $o take a inatonwet of the manner in
which he_ ioard he wake good the deficit ?
The cluarentos a the EXCHEQUER could not
wen this heeinee he JAI sot as yet boo.. whet
RawNue night Peg 'sired, eating for the fortalimtivas
Chhente wee. All he could ray was that, looking at

IM sherd pried of the Revision, the government would
keg no tines in the estimates before the house.
C NNEL FLEET.
. .

Mr. lOLLEIt mind theireiretary to the Admiralty the
reams for the Mend lest encountering the risks of •
dillselt eaeietla and Iringing•to and remaining out of
elgbl at Baia He.• Hope, twelve miles from Edin-
= instead of Ly*g the fleet to anchor in Leith
Lord C. PAGET said that the ships being very large, St.
HaHarpret's Hope had been comidered as offering the best
anchorage.
WINE LICENSES.

Mr. FINLAY asked the Lord Advocate if it was his in-
tention to *tag in a bull this erasion for the purpose of ex-
tending to slooasiod the operation of the Refreshment
Houses and Wine LICSIIIeII Act ; and, if so, whether such
bill was intended to legalise the sale of wine by retail at soy
hour of the sight and during Sundays?
The LORD ADVOCATE mid that a bill would be intro-
duced for Soothed subetentially the same se the English
Wine bosoms Bill. Respecting the Sunday selling, he
could not then give the hem member any information.
_SAVINGS BANKS.

In answer to Sir R. Vr, I LLOUO 11 BY,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that
he woukl, permoact to arrangement, bring forward the
Saviop Banb Bill on Friday evening.
ANNEXATION OF SAVOY.
Sir R. PEEL wished to know from the noble lord the
Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether he had received •
despatch from IL Thouvenel respecting the annexation of
Savoy and Nice to Fran. He did not know whether the
hones would permit him to prises his question by a few
oteervationa (No, no.) Well, then, he would ask whether
the despatch bad been received, mid whether any congress
r the affairs of Switurland was likely to be the
r:ssrltt.tinhe bad heard a strong rumour during the day to
that effect.

Lad J. 117811 ILL—The despatch of X Thonvenel hr
sot as pa ban radval, bat it may be expected next week.
Until ft has been resaiw4 and government has had time to
consider it, 1 amid am, uto the meeting of a congrees.

ASMSTRONG GUNS.

Mr. BAILLIE wished to Leer the Minister for War
whether he had received any reports from oaken com-
manding field batteries of 12-pound Armstrong guns, and,
if so, whether those officer, bad not reported them to be
too complicated for actual service.
Mr. S. HERBERT had received no such report, but would
arks inquiries
HARBOURS OF REFUGE.

Mr. LINDSAY rose to move that, in the opinion of this
house, it was the duty of herMajeety's government to adopt,
at the earliest possible period, the necessary measures to
carry into effect the reconunendations of the commissioners
appointed in 181$ to inquire into the formation of
harbour' of refuge on the coasts of Great Bri.
tin and Ireland. This motion, he said, had stood
on the paper since Wt session, as, in his opinion, it wee a
question which should have been taken up by the govern-
ment, but as they hail omitted or neglected to notice it he
now felt bound to bring it before the house. The greatness
of our maritime trade rendered this question most important.
The President of the Scant of Trade might may he objected
to abstract resolutions like the present one, and that it
world be time to deal with the question when they had
money for harbours of refuge and were prepared to spend
it upon them ; but he would remind the right hon. gentle-
man that he once himself brought forward a celebrated
abstract resolution, asking for a much larger sum than he
now asked the house to vote. (Hear, hear.) The right hon.
gentleman submitted to the house an abstract resolution in
favour of the repeal of the paper duties, which was carried,
and when he became a member of the government
he used his inff mace in the cabinet to put it
in force ; and, by that resolution, he did not
ask for a sum of 230,0001. • year fur ten
but he asked the house to give up for ever 1„0001.
per annum. (Opposition cheers.) He (Mr. Lindsay) did
not know whether the government intended to ask the
house to adopt the report just laid on the table with regard
to the defences of the country, but without wishing to anti-
cipate discussion upon that question he must say that it
touched upon the subject of his resolution. Our great de.
fence ever had been and ever would be on the waters.
(Hear, hear.) It was not sufficient to say that everything
had been changed mince the application of screws to ships of
war, for whatever change had taken place in the mu& of
conducting warfare, we were essentially a maritime people,
and our peat strength must ever be on the
wide= (Rear, hear.) As regarded, therefore, the defence
=the country, he asked the house to oupport his resolution,
and he did so on this pound, that while these harbours of
refuge would provide all round the moat a rendezvous for
ships el war, and stations for convoy. of merchant vessels in
a time of warfare, they would complete those points of de-
AMMO as regarded our different ports which would be re-
quired even if 12,000,0001. were expended on fortifications.
There would be no end to an expenditure on fortifications;
for whim cote they bepn • system of fortifying our coeds, it
as be continued on both sides of the kingdom, from
lanes End to John o' Groats. (Hear, hear.) And then,
if they spent 12,000,000/. in fortifying Dover and other
please, was it likely that an enemy would land his forces
before the very muscles of our guns' Reminding the house
that the committee reported in June last year that the sum
required for the works they suggested was trilliug as com-
pared with the great objects which were to be attained, ho
asked them on the ground of the saving of property, but
above all on the ground of mercy, to support his resolution,
which he concluded by proposing.
Mr. PARKER, in seconding the resolution, said he
entirely concurred with the royal commissioners when in
their report they described this question as one of a truly
nat--opal character.
Mr. BAXTER hoped the government were not
.p
to give • hasty assent to the motion, involving as itretridn
expenditure, according to the cornmiodoners, of 2,365,0001.,
but in the judgment of men competent to form an opinion
on the subject, an expenditure greatlylexceeding, if not
double, that sum. There were in their report some re-
commendations in which he could concur, but as he believed
the amount of expenditure they proposed seas quite urns-
O he would move, as an amendment, the previous
question.
Mr. DOD6ON seconded the amendment, because he
the proposals advocated by the hon. member for
were vary inopportune ; and they came at a
most unfortunate time, when we had • prospect of being
called upon for so large an expenditure for the national de-
fences.

Captain TALBOT, u a naval officer, and representing a
maritime county, eonlially supported the resolution of the
hon. member for Sunderland.

Sir H. VERNEY said he was sure those who heard the
statement of the bon. member for Sunderland must have
seen that members from all parts of the country took such
an interest in this subject that government was called upon
to take some steps in the matter, and no longer to allow our
brave seamen, who were really the marrow and strength of
the country, to be exposed to dangers which were preventible.
Mr. 13RECROFT said this country never grudged money
for works of necessity and mercy ; but it did grudge money
for works that were not needed. He should combally vote
for the motion.

Mr. DANBY SEYMOUR expressed his extreme surprise
at the opposition raised by the hon. member for Sane: sad
the hon. member for Montrose.
Mr. TAYLOR could testify from experience the necessity
of a harbour on the northeast coast. He thought the house
bound to protect our poor seamen, of whom we had not
too many to spare--(hear, hear)—in every way, and espe-
cially by the promotion of harbours of refuge.
Mr. KENDALL quoted evidence to show the advantages
that would result from the construction of a harbour of
refuge at Psdatow, which he said would require a contri-
bution of only 40,000 f. from the government. The loss
of ships and lives ou the emit of Cornwall was

—BIT- A. SMITH denied that the list of wrecks
and lives lost formed any conclusive proof of
the necessity for harbours of refuge. Out of 1,450
wrecks last year, 350 had been collisions, end
a great portion of the remainder occurred in fine weather,
through negligence, or under circumstances in which
harbours of refuge would have been of no service. The
government were already building useful harbours—such as
Portland and Holyhead—in which whole &eta took shelter.
With respect to the question of expense, he feared that
the calculations of the commission were illusory, and that
the sum named would go only • short way in carrying out
the scheme proposed. The northeast coast of England
certainly required a harbour of refuge, but that might be
constructed by convict labour, which would be much better
thus disposed of than if sent to the hulks at Bermuda. Ho
should vote against the motion of the hon. member for
Sunderland, because by supporting it he should bind him-
self to all the details of the report, from many of which
he totally dissected. With these views he felt bound to
support the amendment.
Sir J. PAHINGTON concurred with the hon. member
for Sunderland in thinking that her Majesty's government
bad never seriously entertained this question. He (Sir J.
Pakington) had waited patiently to hear a member of the
govenunent express his opinion, but tiny elf sat silent how the pack ran, deteradasd to accede to the
motion if the hams was too strong for than, bat to throw
it over if pcedble. He trust the government would
not mock the house by talking about Amnon after their
conduct this year in throwing money away. The mosey
they bad thrown away over and over wok would .may
have provided for this motional sod most necessary expen-
diture. U the did not coincide with the
motion, he his hoc. friend would go to a division,
sad be (Sir J. • ) should certainly vote with him.
Mr. M. GIBSON said the right boa. baronet who had
hut addressed than had fallen into an error in charging the
government with buliffsreace to the importance of the
quads& The government, in considirbi all thit had
fe Ifialeoll to it and the expectations raised by the
it thek of the Muss sad the report of the essassimion, bad
duty Is give their attention to the subject, sad
to IMMISSVOUr to provide • shouras, it sat to carry oat the
whet, cd the rocommiladations at the ossimnision, at any
mils that shield make • cesnmsacessiont, and carry thaws
reesmuussidedions isat to • oriole extent. Bat the right
boa. haromet bad to coeditor sow. not merely the
=isquestion of the advantage of haring
of refuge on parts of the coast wilieh
were at prowl deficient in shelter for shipping, but the
propriety of their placing this particular resolution on the
nilnutai with a view to guide the future decision' of the
bows. (Maar, hers.) The right hon. gentleman bad ester.
hated co the grostimils which had arisen from the atoms
of harbours of re ; sad he mentioned two particular la-
staaos•—tbe Siilse to the Bristol Channel, and the
Norfolk oast—hunt V the sight has. henna bassi blogelf

by the report of the commission, he would obtain no assist-
ance, because the Humbles scheme was rejected by the
commissioners, and there was no recommendation for a
harbour of refuse on that part of the coast. (Hear, hear.)
It might be well to pass an abstract resolution in order to
indicate that it was neocesary to do something on this ques-
tion; but by passing the present resolution they would do
more than that, they would bind themselves to bring in
at the earliest opportunity measures to give effect to the
precise recommendations of the commission. (No, no.) He
could not understand the words of the resolution to we-
al any other meaning, for they were " to carry into effect
the recommendations of the commissioner appointed in
1858 to inquire into the formation of harbours of refuge."
By agreeing to the resolution they world also prejudge •
great number of separate question; each of great import-
ance, and one of them being the manner in which the funds
for the support of these harbours were to be
provided. (Hear.) The hon. member for Sunderland laid
some stress on the fact that harmony prevailed between the
committee of that house and the commission, but there wee
not harmony between them on that material point, namely,
the source from which the funds were to be obtained.
Whilst the commissioners recommended that a large portion
of the money should be derived from state grants, increased
by)acis from the places whereltheharbours were!sitnated, the
committee on the other hand recommended that three-
fourths of it should be levied on shipping by a passing toll,
on the principle that those who derived benefit from
the harbours should contribute to their construction and
maintenance. (Hear, hear.) That was • very important
difference, and they should not prejudge • question of this
nature by passing • general resolution pledging themselves
to carry out all the recommendations of the commissioners.
The Board of Trade were not authorised to take on them-
selves the preparation of • great scheme, such as that re-
commended by the commissioners, involving large grants of
public money. That must be a matter for mature consi-
deration, and the state of public business in the present
session, and the number of measures brought forward,
would have prevented the house deliberating fully upon it,
even if it had been submitted to its consideration ; but they
had prepared a measure for the puma* of improving
existing harbours, erecting piers, and carrying out those
other objects which the hon. member for Poole told them
were considered in many parts of the country most
important. The improvement pf existing harbours, which
were the seats of trade must have • great effect in saving
life, for, from the wrecks' chart, it would be found that
most shipwrecks took place in the immediate neighbour.
hood of ports which were much frequented by shipping.
Numbers of vessels naturally converged to a point opposite
existing tidal harbour. in the north, and it was of the
utmost importance that each facilities should be afforded to
them to enter those harbours as that they might be saved
from the dangers of a lee shore. (Hear, hear.) The
bill which he would introduce would have an important
bearing upon that point, and would enable the managers
of existing harbours to obtain money in the manner indi-
cated by the hon. member for Poole. He hoped this
would show that the government were in earnest—(hear,
hear)—but it was not in his power to command the time
of the house, or to say whether the measure could be car-
ried during the present session. He merely mentioned the
fact of their having prepared a measure in order to rebut
the charge that they had not considered this important sub-
bect, and to show that the house might expect that it would
dealt with by the government. (Hear.)
Sir F. SMITH, as • member of the commission, supported
the resolution of the hon. member for Sunderland.

Mr. LIDDELL said he was much disappointed with the
&newer given by the government on thu subject, which,
having been so many years before the country, demanded •
satisfactory settlement.
Sir J. JOHNSTONE supported the motion. He said
Mr. Gibson had stated that if there were • barbourof refuge
at Finley there might be a saving of five lives in the course
of the year. He did not know bow the right hon. gentle-
man arrived at that opinion, but he thought no one who
knew that part of the coast would support him in it. Two
harbours of refuge ought to be formed, one to the north,
and another to the south of Fliunborough Head.
Mr. PAULL said he had never heard a speech which
would be received by the country with more dissatisfaction
than that of Mr. Gibson. He trusted the hon. gentleman
would press forward his motion ; and whatever the govern-
ment might do, the house would support the recommenda-
tion of the commission.
Sir S. M. PETO trusted the government would yet spare
the house the necessity of dividing on this question. There
was no necessity that the government should be hurried is
carrying out the works. A reference had been made to-
night to Holyhead, and to the estimate being so much ex-
ceeded. Why was that? It was because the plans were
altered several times. When his duties called him to that
part of the country during the construction of that harbour,
he generally found that they were working on a plan dif-
ferent from that which they were working on when he was
there before. There was no necessity for works of this
kind exceeding the estimate. What there was to do was
generally to carry put so many cubic yards of stone into the
sea, and a practical man could easily calculate what the coat
would be, and, if the works were let on • forfeit contract,
there would be no difficulty in getting the works executed
for the sum mentioned in the contract. He could only say,
as the representative of a portion of the metropolis, that
his constituents would feel great pleasure in having this
question settled. They would bear taxation for works of
this character, but the taxation they were unwilling to bear
was that for which they got no value. The other night
there was a proposition to make • map on • 25-inch scale
which would ccet a million, and there was &disposition to
incur the expenditure, but there was an indispoeition to
incur an expenditure of a quarter of a million a.year for ten
yam for work,' of much more value. He should feel very
great pleasure in voting for this motion, and he trusted that
the house would not hesitate to affirm it ; but, as a sincere
supporter of the government, he trusted that they would not
put the house to the necessity of carrying the motion against
them.

Mr. ItIINTINCE condemned severely the expenditure
upon the works at Dover and Alderney, upon which, he
said, more money had been wasted than would have
sufficed to construct several harbours of refuge.
Alter Kate remarks by Mr. Btsrth and Sir J. ELPHLI-
groin in support of the resolution,
Lord PALMERSTON said the government were con-
vinced of the vast importance of the matter under con-
sideration, and of the absolute necessity of taking some
measures for providing places of refuge on the coast, and
if they objected to the motion it was because it pledged
the house and the government to adopt blindfold the
recommendation of the commissiocers, although there were
great diversities of opinion as to the localities of the differ-
ent harbours. Mr. Gibson had stated that the government
had • measure prepared for the commencement of operations,
and be hoped the house would not commit itself to so
sweeping • resolution.
Mr. LINDSAY made a brief reply, with reference to
which

The CHANCELLLOR of the EXCHEQUER milled
attentidn to the motion as it stood upon the paper, upon
which the reply had, he said, put an incorrect gloss.
The house then divided—
For Mr. Lindsay's motion
Against it
The motion was than woad to.
DIPLOMATIC SERVICE.
. . . .

Mr. DUFF moved for a select committee to inquire into
the present condition of the diplomatic service, and the best
means at increasing its efficiency. He thought it would be
for the advantage of the public sorvice if every year at
least one unpaid attache ship were thrown open to
public competition, but he felt that every candidate should
be convenant with international law.

Lord J. RUSSELL did not think that any reason bad
been shown for the appointment of the committee. He
believed that it would produce little or no result. The go-
vernment was always ready to improve the diplomatic
service in any way in which it could be done. There was
not much competition for the employment of attaches;
they had,,to live at their own expense, and pay their own
expenses out and home again ; so that there was not much
scope for a competitive examination. If the gentlemen so
employed gained the confidence of the courts where they
were sent that was enough. The question of the Persian
mission was hardly a subject for enquiry by a com-
mittee ; they might decide it either way without
being far wrong. On questions relating to Russia, the mi-
nister at Persia might consult the Foreign-office; those
affecting India he would refer to the Indian governinasit.
He thought the motion unnecessary, and recommended the
house not to asggrreeee to it.
Mr. AL MILNES said that the question was an important
one ; but looking at the advanced period of the session, he
saw no advantage to be gained from the appointment of a
select committee. Upon the whole, our diplomatic service
was as good as that of any other country ; but he should be
glad to see the system of unpaid attaches abolished.
Mr. KINNAIRD recommended the withdrawal of the
motion.

Mr. GRANT DUFF then withdrew the motion, but said
be should take the earliest opportunity of bringing it on
next session.
MARINE STORE DEALERS.

mr. sPooNTlWio,;(floiTe;v;;;;:iTgfil a bill to regd.
late the business of marine-store dealer,.

The SPEAKER said that aa it was a bill relating to trade
it must be moved for in a committee of the whole house.

The house then went into committee, and the nwlut~on
wee pawed, and leave given to Mr. Spooner and Mr. Soholn-
field to bring in the bill.
WINE LICENSES IN IRELAND.

)I[r. DEAAY, in the absence of the of the Ex-
chequer, moved that the resolution of the home in com-
mittee ea the 15th of May be read, and that leave be given
to being in a bill to grant to her Majesty certain duties on
wins licenses and refreshment bonsai hi Ireland, and for the
regulation of the licensing of refreshment houses in
Ireland.

Mr. bIENNESSY mid the Chancellor of the Exchequer
had told the house that his bill would not extend to he-
lms% and be himself had receivedroany letters written un-
ite that impression. This resolution. therefore, came on
him surprise in a thin house, at half-past twelve o'clock
at night, and he hoped it would not then be pressed. He
moved the adjournment of the debate.
Bir. G. C. LEWIS said that when the English Wine
Lamas Bill was under diectindoe, the government were
mined to extend it to Irehaid, and an amendment was
inns moved with that view ; but it was pointed out that
the ma was so }noised by the act. which it cited as to be
taappaitable to Ireland, and then his right hon. friend the
Cheney for of the Exchequer promised that on an earl day
he would ustrodace a bill extending its provisional to Irelan&
That promise wee now fulfilled, and it would be an UDOOUIII
and inconvenient course to oppose a mere forum) resolution
kw leave to bring in the bill and to prevent A front being

laid on the table of the house. The bill should be laid on
the table that members inigit see what were its provisions,
and then if they thought it objectionable the second reading
would be the proper oppottunity for opposing it.
The motion was negatived without a division, and leave
was given to bring in the bill.
SOUTH KENSINGTON MUSEITIL
. . .

Mr. LOWE moved fora forselect committee to inquire and
report what buildings are necessary for the South Ken.
aington Museum. He said that the national collection of
rcieuce and art which was originally deposited at Somerset
House had been removed to Marlborough House, and sub-
sequently to South Kensington, to the building commonly
known as the "boilers.' The buildings unfortunately
required considerable repairs ; they admitted the rain,
paddles of water were to be seen here and there, and the
statues he found the other day veiled in • most lugubrious
manner. Some money had been spent oo these arrange-
ments—(hear, hear)--amonget other sums 15,0001. had been
spent on one occasion ; 10,0001. at another time on the re-
moval of the Vernon sad Turner collections, which how-
ever were not strictly part of the science and art collections.
But the outlay had been conducted with no system
or regokrity ; and he proposed this committee in
order to consider the whole question, and decide whether
the collections should remain at Kensington or not.
Mr. J. LOCKE said that the terms of the motion
seemed to imply that further buildings at Kensington were
in contemplation. Of all the disgraceful jobs which the
house had witnessed, he thought the worst had been con-
centrated to a small extent in the South Kensington Mu-
seum. He wished the right honourable gentleman had
worded the motion in such a way as that this
miserable building might be removed altogether.
If the right hon. gentleman would alter his motion so that
the committee should have power to inquire and report what
was to be done with the South Kensington Museum, then
he thought the house might agree to the motion.
Mr. DILLWYN observed that there was already a com-
mittee sitting to consider what was to be done with the col-
lection at the British Museum, and be suggested that this
matter should be referred to that committee. The hour
was too late to enter into • discussion at this time of night,
and he moved that the debate be adjourned.
Sir G. C. LEWIS apprehended that the result of re-
ferring this matter to the Committee on the British
Museum would be that there would be no report this
session. Moreover, it should be remembered that the
British Museum was under the government of a separate
body of trustees.
CONINGHAM said this was practically a motion
for the granting of more money for the enlarge-
ment of the building. That this museum and the British
Museum were different establishments was evident from the
fact that persons in the employment of each were to be seen
competing with each other in auction rooms in London, for
objects to be placed in the respective collections. He should
oppose this motion, but he should like to see a committee
anointed to inquire into the management of the South
Kensington Museum, as from what he was informed he
believed that • greater system of jobbery had never been
known than that which would be brought to light concern-
ing this museum.
Mr. BLACKBURN thought there should be an inquiry
whether this museum might not be amalgamated with the
National Gallery. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. M'CANN bad satisfied himself that the School of
Art was doing • great deal of good, and supported the
motion for • committee.
Mr. HANKEY could not understand what was the ob-
ject of the inquiry. He considered that the public pictures
ought to form one collection.
Sir G. LEWIf3 said the Sheepshanks pictures were left
to the nation on the express stipulation that they should be
exhibited at Kensington. There was no objection to the
motion being altered so ea to make it • general inquiry into
the Museum. (Hear.)
Mr. KINNAIRD said that he was serving en &commit-
tee before which it had been proved that there was no
public institution in the country that was visited by so
many persons ; and the reason was that it was open in the
. . .

Mr.-IYRTON hoped the terms of the resolution wculd
be made as wide as possible.
The motion as amended by Sir G. Lewis was then to.
METROPOLIS LOCAL MANAGEMENT ACT

This bill WM read a second time.
SUPPLY.

and agreed to.
PHCENLX PARK BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
TENISONB CHARITY BILL.
This bill piumed"thougli committee.
CALEDONIAN AND CRINAN CANALS BILL
The order for the third reeding of this bill was discharged,
and the bill was reoommitted to insert amendments.
BANKRUPT LAW (SCOTLAND) AMENDMENT BILL
The Lords' amendments on this bill were read and agreed to.
The house adjourned at 25 minutes past one.