The Express.
London, England, 1860-06-13 00:00:00

DEPUTATION TO LORD PALMERSTON.

Yesterday a deputation, consisting of about 150
gentlemen, waited upon Lord Palmerston at Caunbridge-
house, in support of the provision for a religious census pro-
posed in the bill brought in by the government, as being
preferable to any return to the fallacious teat of 1851.
Among those present were the Right Hon. B. Disraeli,
1L P., Lewd Robert Montagu, M.P., the Earl of Dartmouth,
the Right Hon, Sotheron-Estoourt, M.P., Sr Stafford
Nortkoote, Bart.., 3LP., Lord John Thynne, Lard Lyttelton,
and Mr. Howells Davies (secretary to the Church Institu-
tior), by whom the deputation was arranged. Tho gentlemen
present ted the London Union on Church Matters,
the Eos isbChurch Union, the Church Institution, and the
Church Defence Associations of Mmichoster, Liverpool,
Kidderminster, Bath, Bristol, Shrewsbury, Cambridge, and
Mciarley.
Look N.. MONTAGU, in introducing the deputation, said,
several inesabas of parliament had accompanied the depu-
tation interim to show their attachment to the church and
the were were prepared to give to the government
in Itir interesta. He might perhaps be allowed
*WI so the agitation which Mr. Baines and
ea* bad* an foot in opposition to that clause el the
tlernmee In imele provided for a return of the *glees
prodsesiees et tke pepalation. His lortbhip would be swam
that el Ai glieliee ei church coma and other church mat.
hers diseendone bad taken upon themselves to assert that
tbswii
h4Tessi4e grether body than the church. If they
.Idtek slehmente were COMICS they ought to
welcomed* egperseeity of proving their ease; bat if, on
the other Issid they were tionacioaa of some mug-
ms they would naturally wish that se return
as which would show them up, and prove the
of them &martial's. The noble lord having
Waned • misty of statistics founded woe omens re-
menu, to show that the members of the Chuck ei Saila*
ea those who were attached to the various Messed-
I lag dencrainatione, appealed to Lord Palmerston teledi to

decision deliberately taken by the government in refer .
mice to the Census Bill, in order that a correct return might
be obtained.
Mr. A. B. }dorm expressed his opinion that if the noble
lord stood firmly to the bill of the government be would
have the supportef alarge number of last dimesterm
He held that the organised opposition oC the dissenter to
this bill was not in any way to be feared by the government.
Mr. DellilAlal thought it would be acknowled that in
the present position of affairs the statistics on which they
ware amestomed to art should be corrected. Whether this
was a subject in which statistics ought to be introduced was'
not the question before them. The(inatt been introduced,
and so far that portion of the mu Ind been
of. The statistical returns of the t ceases had been
freely adopted, and had been made the allegation on which
legislative measures had been Introduced into the House of
Commons. It wee of the utmost Importance that en this
great 'abject they should have correctness, and that they,
should not be asked te 'depend upon returns the accuracy
of which was very generally suspected. The government
might depend upon the cordial support of a very large
party if they considered it their duty to maintain the
opinion they had formally expressed, and which he be.
•
laved had been most wisely adapted.
Sir James Ferguson, M.P., Mr. H. Hoare, the Rev. Dr.
Molesworth, vicar of Rochdale, the Hco. Colin Lindsay,
the Rev. Dr. Hume' of Liverpool, the Rev. T. D. Gregg,
and the Rev. Caron Owen. having expressed their views,
Lord PALIMUSTOII said be bad in the first place to thank
the deputation foe coming there to state their opinions and
also to ware the government of their support in maintain-
tag the bill es it now elead. ?srkaea be way in
obi& he mould explato to them his opbioas was by telling
them that be had not very long age the honour of receiving
• deputation representing the other side of the question—
name' , the dissenters, who stated that it was a great
vioLKm of 0011•Cielbee to require of any man to state what
his religkWa'OPillelee were. They urged that these were
menses between a mean and a higher authority, and that
ths WI provided that if these qluestiions were sot answered,
has and penalties would be which would lead to a
systopx.of religious peasmation especially if lines and papal-
ties were inipceed epontheme who from conscientious motives
refused to state to what particular sect they belonged.
They had requested that the bill might be framed on the
model el the het census, which merely provided for a re-
tina of the ethendance of the different denominations on a
gives day. He told the gentlemen who formed that dmits-
tine that this was really net a matter assuming a religious
upset, but a asition how they should obtain statistical
formation for tive purposes. Ha told them that in
all nations, in countries, statistical returns were obtained
showing, for purposes of legislation and administration,
what were proportions of parsons entertaining various
religious opinions ; sod that coarse was never considered an
infringement of religious liberty, being adopted merely
for legislative and government action. No doubt
the whole of a census, beyond mere numbers of the
population, was an impertinent interference with the affairs
of private life. A man might say, and possibly with jun-
tas, what business bays you to ask me whether I am a
bricklayer, a farmer, • tradesman, or anything else ? and
the softer part of the community might certainly with
mush more reason object to being asked what their age
was. (Lasighter.) The gentlemen who had waited open him
had elated that many of the dissenter would say that they
did met belong to spy particular sect, but that they were
rteriChristmas. Well, thee, he thought that the ladies,
they made their returns, might say that they were
of no particular age. (Laughter.) The return obtained
by the bat census merely gave a statement of the
number of persons who, on a particular day, attended
religions worship, and this was of course liable
to fluctuations, the relative state of health and sickness for
example, fine weather or bad—in fact, it indicated nothing
but the accidental presence of persons at particular places
of worship. • if it should be thought right to add to the
enumeration of persons belonging to the different religious
denominations a statement of the number of sittings at
each place of worship, lie was not prepared to say that that
might not be • very great addition. It might also show
what was the zeal of each denomination in regard to este-
'blishing means of worship in proportion to their
actual numbers. It certainly might be a question
whether penalties should be inflicted upon Xhose who
from conscientious motives did not wish to have their re-
ligious opinions inquired into, but he bad always under-
stood that men were proud in ackiowledging the sincere
convictions by which they were animated. (Hear, hear.)
It must be recollected that the last census, by requiring a
statement of the buildings of the differentdenommations,
did to some extent enter upon an inquiry as to religious
opinions, because each building was returned as belonging
to one or other of the religions denominations. He saw no
reason for from the proposed form of enema
-ration -.(cheers) It appeared to biro that at, religious
person could have any good reason for taking offence at it.
The object was simply to ascertain a fact which would be
of great importance as the foundation of legislative
action. The only other points which be thought they had
to consider were, first, that mentioned by the Home
Secretary • few evenings since, namely, whether it might
not be expedient to exempt from penalties conscientious
persons who had objections to answer inquiries; and,
secondly, whether, in addition to the enumeration of persons
belonging to different sesta, it might not be useful to
know the number of sittings in the different buildings em-
ployed for religions worship.
Mr. A. BEEZATORD Hors, in expressing the gratification
the deputation felt in his lordship's answer to their repre-
sentations, said be hoped that the census would be taken
by government enumerators, and not left to She different
denominations. The deputation then retired.