The Express.
London, England, 1860-02-17 00:00:00

CHINA.

Sir DE L. EVANS, la ;ias.lr-aTa a queried, staled that•
,
la el wbaa bad talks tram tee yak lard (Lord
J. Ea would partpcaa ht. =tam to-rsorrow cia the
Amapa* of Cldaa.

MANNING THE NAVY.

Mr C. NAPlifineoW—T'iliat7l; the opinion of this
house, the moommendations of the moiamiseionen oa man-
ning the navy ought to be tam Into consideration by the
government, with a view to carry out the pritudpies of inch
reoommeod►ttons." After what they had heard about
France and Savoy it :was impossible for any man to say
what might bs the conarquenos in six months hence, and the
noble lord at the head of foreign affairs might Mau of the
flnt who—be wee going to say—might be brut& to the
block. (A laugh.) If we lost Our channel fleet we' hid no
reserve, while the French had a reserve, and in mae of any
uotoward circounstanoss arising mad that stet., of things he
should not last° beim tha =Wigan' shoes. Bat if they pat Usk
elmaidors to the wheel they would be able to maintain their
position ; let than get a proper roserve, which would only
cost 80,0001.. and without that reserve they could not unman
their fast. (Rear, hear.) The hon. and gallant number
cescluded by placing in the Speaker's hand the resolution of
which he had given notice.
Sir Y. SEYMOUR. seconded the motion.

Mr. HEIfLEY said It .0 imposeiWs to creed the valuable
evidence given before the °outdid= es manaing the
wry without °owing to one of taw ornalasiew—ase of
which was, that when the navy wee Wand at anything
Ilk. an even number there waa no Mlipelq to getting is
many men am will wasted; on the Whir Mad it awned
quite claw that in owe of war *sift out, than there
We. great dtisoally In getting the umber of men required.
Mr. LIDDELL said the naval whiles mien had
not worked•Wl. for this. had bawls* tereamwelad
with it. Be was of *Was that Um were le hewn an
law restriatiese yea long voyages is Wealble—lnfled, in
his opining, every inallity ought to be gfsas W the wag
wanes *agar In thew Ant what la chilly wee to
onneest spas was that the net nimble Imbue la the
whole reject had net bean oentad ant—tha entabibitaret el
*ohne( Wipe fa ow pert& Amara =OW he itineevation
end regret was, that the =whoa sinus sal Er Qnwe's
service bad bets Mgt i9O rdrsy gad, be his Witiblie it
web' be Sat the eilVa of both V has Mama mimed
He between thew. that parlienest, in dribs with
this large saldrot, Mt be led away by may nodes at
fain soonomy—all were fatsreeted in tide great reidien,
whether am of war at nem of perm (Hew, ham

Mr. W. B. LINDSAY cosi art give his support to the
wade& There could be so dada but the presses velem of
massolng the am had maw, me be had freeness. The neer-
chard egnma did sot enter into the service of the Queen,
=the gams had dons all it could ea write It op. An
euudes far the house to consider was, whether,
owing to meat eltsagee sad nista& ineprovanonots in the
navy, It well sot be poggible to man the skips affictestly
with lower mien and more mann and whether the net
superiority shish had talus plus in insoltbriery would sot
dhniabli the amok for the number of gallon whin need
formerly to be employed. Ile bad suggested to the Mai-
ruby, ter Wawa that patent Musses should be employed ;
btu the mow be received was that they would twist of the
mad !sada as Dilution whin he had never beard made in
the Amason alnico, where trains were largely nod. A
sailor not Mk a year, whiles • marine soot only 321.
• year. Why, thee, should not a marine, if
be did the work ea well, have the preference ?
If the plan which be had proposed had been adopted the
=sent might here reduced the army to a very cod-
extent. The rams why the men would not ester
the navy was Amply bCCIIIIIIII they had no confidence in It,
and why was that r —because there bad been so many barriers
between the merehaat service and the miry. He had ender
vowel to break them down by his proposidoes recorded fet
the blue book. He peopootel to have boys In the reboot ships
alike far the menhaat service and the navy, is that in amn-
ion, with their training or good coednot they might be
drafted off to the navy or owners of the merchant vends.
He prepaid that the merchant owners and the government
should nerninate • certain number of boys to these schools.
Hie desire was to open up Greenwich Bonita' for the homage
of all semen. He would mak the primmest why, when
they agpeled to seamen of the merchant service they did not
also apnea to the officers of that senior, and Pre them the
rrttuty of diegnishing themselves is time of war
hnl
e one hand, they had to the navy retired officers
who con the country 600,0001. • year • and on
the other, there was • sceraity of llesiatesa even
now, and daring the Crimean war there wee • very groat
scarcity indeed. &pros they entered the 30,000 Toss asked
br hat year, what could they do with then violent officers
to osesnind them? Who wen the alms in the mernant
servisor Why they were quite equal to the gestimais of
the navy in *decodes and eobristy, sad all those qualities
whisk were required to make the. geed swam sad diciest
merry. (Hear, nu.) If the itoverstasat bad adopted his
same they would bare obestaed 30,100 UM, and at • far
Ira seat them they would do mow. He deeded to dogging
is the ism end he wee thserlets glad to en that sops
ehellla WU _ mdse is IMO topeek rasa the Wish. of war
wear me ; why set elmle had sate then pials, to be
aatterseled by the met If they wadi hat is is they
might reveal their Wag • ban*, to waesstag the woks.
In sone reeposte the pwandteset was so severe' that the
septets weld net demo it, sad es the ether hutg U
plffilikd the taut trees sasedeg the servile.
Lard O. Miff said he did net elm Ise theloVese d
webs the media al hie gelid Meld. ler drua-11, wed
yeassoodlosty sua Ws his paint kind Iffid sad Os

rr WOPENCE.

&Vodka of tho home to the quo% km of maiming the navy.
All h. mai laY 'am this, that the govsrument ware u Let
eitsetylV could cerrying out the aeceratmodatless of the
Commiasiesers. (Hear bray.) AA to .111=1
the omens of the merchant service, he would
that if the men mob on to Met navy they would
this invite the officers to do AO. (saar, heir.)
Another ermagemast was, that oontiessete servioe man would
get their cloth's. He hoped also mime wee being
lends towards paying the man more • ; in short, it wee
ths cousin% endeavour of the Admireupon the TO.
oommendaticsa of Me commbeieuers for the improvement of
**naval service. (Hear, hear.)
A diecusakra followed, in which Yr. Taylor. Sir J. Elphin•
shone, Sir M. Seymour, Mr. Sestinck, Asatl Walcott, gad
MriarDiel 27,174,11 the whiner&
that ha had nada se mistake &best the order to take up am
is dregginn, sad he mild farther MOM hire that It was •
same et greet dimellifeeties. The mow soak a hebriese
order was withdraws dm better. He believed the lon. mam-
bos for Pensnoldli we mistaken with regard to the hips,
end that these Yips were dose away with. If thir *warmest
phew* wee extruded acidly amosplesemenrk wh told very
murk wantribute to tele; mom IMO the navy sad *make it
popular. It the noble iced did net proud's him that he
woad remora the bbek ships and enindinte slitdeM shlds
tor them, he should divide the home en his modes. Re
waded the male lard's answer. (Lawgeter.)
The qaa*. woe thee put and naiad withont a
division. •

Sr C. NAPIIII—The 11 eyes" bade*. (Laughter.)
hter.)
mute,
mrThe.FIoewLOO4IPZAAINAIN4ZR—Ota InliNtht Tonal"..ll.llridow, ARiedwagielthardY AND A(Lf
was Meet to Oboes senior became it prorated we
sposishie mu from joining them. Upon heir soldienemd
ashen tits ometry depended for br fame, am! ter
11110112 mil yet they ewe treated woresamn any chew el
persons sealety—rrerse eves Ruh lams. Thoesuh-
mute silt' who ftelamed the fife of thaKallis Wile Nab'
pall to the hob, and ft was on the with that
clam of peruse that they pat theft comes sad asillia
(Hier, boar.) The piedul Offislloll* Jr which
wars mad be logged were drunlanues, aimmos
without haw, inamWidha, dirtier, mint of
duty, lellhg untruths, theft, auk* at • mars pod, fight-
ing, &a an
ft dale KM • brave Mow aliaM hive Me
beat flayed for mob offences se sons of those , Why, it ma
el curd the a seems rule mum to bet
readyweye Jrr Eds(Resr, hear.) Wks it to be m-
ama that man to the country owed so mach of its
greeds= should be subjected to suck trestreed became sit
amber of old gentlemen—with the best ineadiales no doubt
—could not find room for say ideas but inch sewers is vogue.
fifty years ago, when their ships wore manatee by mesas of
the pear- fang f (Hear, hear.) For several year, past, he. (the boa. gentleman) had moved for a swam of returns re-
' Wing to this subject, and he now proposed touid to them a
new henna which was the name of the captain
dm& ship to which men were fagged. Meer, beer.
)
He would tell the hour why he did this. Fee two yeah the
noble mil pliant officer (Lord C. Paget) bad mamanded In
the Primo Royal. Notwithstanding the high date of die-
dpine and risked., to which he brought theorem, he had
ant legged a men. (Loud sheers.) Well, he was suc-
ceeded by • eapain who &aged 68, on whom he tatted no
fewer then 1,100 lashes. Having dated that fed ii the
bones, he (Kr. Williams) received • letter hem a gallant
minstrel sewing him that be must have made some mistake,
for no men had • higher character for humanity than Capt.
Bailey, who was then commanding the ship. .Accordingly
he (Mr. William.) made further inquiries, and at length he
sacertaftied that the spate who had Bogged fifty-three men
we one who came between the noble lord and Captain
Bailey. (Hear, bear.) To prevails midakes of that kind,
which might be very prejudicial to the character of meritori-
ous officers, be (Kr. Williams) shcmld propose the
following returns :—Rettorn of the nuat of men
Bogged in the army and militia in the year
1859, specifying the offence, the regimente, the plus
of station, the time, the sentence, and the number of
lashes iefitoted on each man (in continuation of parliamentary
paper, No. 619, of Nadu 1868) ; also, return of the number
of persons flogged In the navy in the year 1869, apecifying
the name of the ships and of the commanding officers, the
area the sentence, and the number of lashes inflicted on
each preen, stating whether by order of comet martial or the
commanding ofikereaticeontinuetion of parliamentary paper,
No. 41, of session 1 .
Mr. BBIBTOWB, seconding the motion, remarked on
the anandly which existed between our civil and our military
jurieptivimme.
The quietism hadag bra put,
Colonel NORTH could tail the ben, member on the
part of the army that if be or any other deifies would intru-
der any other punaluzient welch would be wafer, sad
mean the soldier athe abodes' time to duty, he would be
killed sea bendeotor by the whole army. (Hear.) The hon.
member whoa seconded the motion dated that there was no
loggbg in the French army. Did he inquire bow
crime was punished in the French may P If he had
he would find that for what we flog the French shoot. (Hear,
hear.) When he was in Paris het autumn be went one day
to Verrill's, and he there found that that day two men hail
been shot hr knocking down • noc-oosamiseioned officer. in
the Ameba army, also, the punishment was very severe a
commapaidelmeast being to put a man in • room to mill
that be could not stand upright, where he war left all day
and only taken out at nicht.
Alderman SALOMONS, while admitting that every
officer who was obliged to Inflict the punishment ogibi;
ging must feel that he was performing a very dies
duty, fait bound to corroborate the statements of his bon.
Mead the member for Lambeth as to the painful sensation,
that we created by the floggings at Woolwich.
Lord C. PAOBT said he had no objection to the returns
moved for by the hon. member for Lambeth provided be
left out the names of abate who he said lied in-
flicted oorpored punishment. (Hear, boar.) That umiak-
meat IMO one of the most Faisal duties which any
°fiber could be called upon to witness, but he felt bound he
say it could ant be at present suddenly and wholly done away
with. The hon. member had quoted him as an officer who
did not fog, bat he could same him that he was not the
man to shriek ham flogging if he thought it necessary. The
hon. member had also stated that the Admiralty oould not
get the number of seamen which they wanted. He (Lord
C. Paget) would correct him. Last year upwards of 10,000
men entered, of whom above 4,000 were able-bodied seaman.
(Hear, hear.) He could stale, moreover, that out of
the whole fleet there was osly 8 per cent. of desertions.
itirtelaclhear.) He told the Ma. mesher lut year that the
of War se they now stood were not in woordasce
with the spirit of the present age. The government had it in
view to bring fa a bill this year that would make thou
wades more is accordance with the mutat age. ( Hear.)

Yr. ROHNCICH thought the him. and iallant member
(Colossi Nerth) spin of the hos. member for Lambeth
in a Miser essos, mood bemuse he brought for-
ward tiga =Wm New, it seemed to him (Mr. Roebuck)
a wise thing's& ii,mlthing to bring this motion forward,
because it was mot in a spirit of animosity to the allows
of the army or nevi they mted under compulsion, and this
11106111 (sly Demi for inquiry. (Hear. hear.) He remem-
bers& OM tine vim a man was good for nothing else they
Yak kissomil No rirsa of the community wee so sager
kit ea the judges. ("Hear, bear," and a isagh.)
It to bite that three lamed persona ware utterly
and that the authorities of the army were not in-
:llibis.

---
Mr. BUXTON was perfectly persuaded that it would be
the sernadest palsy to get rid of the lash in the two serviess,
white ere made naperake by it to the working chums. Is
oder to show the inhumanity of the punishment he read a
dethriptica of s fogging by • andlerer, and pronounced it •
butel punishment, which could only be justified by • real
sad sham asesselty, the onus being upon the &drowse of
the Irk to prose the necessity. He wee of opinion that
discipline could be nesintainsd as well without the lash se
with it. In the best Continental armies it was unknown.
and discipline was kept up In many of our regiment& and
many of our daps at war without flogging.
Mr. 8. HILBBIST pointed out the distinction ',Mums
the composltion of our army end that of Conti-
nental snake, which were relied by conscription
from all clothes. A very strong authority must
be exercised over • body like our army, raised
Is so peculiar • manner, by • mode of pateishment more
rapid and summary than was applied to civilians. But
dogging was a punishment not unknown to civil life, and he
cited statutes in which flogging was the penalty for amid*
offences. He did not esy that this was right, but It was
an answer to the objection that • yule was applied to the
mother from which the civilian was exempt. Mud the them
at Woolwich, which he thought a bed one, oorporal punish-
ment bad berm, by a wise, just, and humane General Order
of the Commander-in-Cblet, restricted to few offences; and
be wished that it should be reduosd to • minimum. He
hoped the house end the country would see that they might
misty leave this matter in hands well able to dent with it.
Mr. H. JAMES mid the cause of himumity was greatly
indebted to the hon. member for Lambeth for bringing for&
ward this motion. He thought he was justified in saying
that hardly so instance could be found In which, during the
, last ten years, • judge had ordered an adult to be fogged.
It might be ordered sometimes in the ems of boys. He ob-
jected to this degrading punishment, and it wee Inflicted in
the army for merely venial offenses. It was well known
that the system of digging in the army caused deeertioa;
and he remembered the Hounslow owe, when the soldier
died, sat out of six who were present font afterwards
deserted. Instead, therefore, of beteg a 'Teethe against
desertion, k prevented sollatineat and mused desertion.
He should sapped the mottos; bat he afoot/ to the publi-
cation of the names of pewee who discharged their duty is
ferrying out what wee the fault of • system. (Heal
&r C. NAPIER mad be meld net sea semi officer matt
le norm his opbsiset ea Ilegging Is the navy. He wee the
deeps who rand the etteaden et the hones te the hsr-
Midis if War. True he wee reproved by
Ire Lead et dietioketty tor Madan that no am In lie
*Woe dial Is "nimbi whims • coarvnistal, NA be