The Express.
London, England, 1860-03-16 00:00:00

.

be no division of sentiment between the two houress—a
result which would be Inch to be deplored—but that they
would pave to it their high manctirm.
Lord liWs'ift.n mid the noble earl who had moved
the SAININIMIN6 bad anticipated that if the motion for the
address wire rejected it would have •Ire prejudicial ellest
up= the treaty, end that aaticipatime kid been confirmed
by the noble and learned lord on the woobieck. It having
bean said that there was no necessity for the address, he
for one would not join in the respoesibfiit of vet* for it.
The Hari of HAILDWICKB that the govern-
I meat had in this treaty neglected the interests of the
I British shipowners—more especially of the owners of sailing
abipe—which interests were at this moment under a
amount of depression than they ever experienced greater
He found that the only effect of the treaty would be to
interim
tithe advantages already possessed by Amnion ships
in porta
After an observation from Lord WMILITDALL
Lord CBANWORTH contended that the treaty in no
way intefered with the Queen's prerogative respecting the
prevention of the export of coal.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE felt muck difficulty in fol.
lowing in debate the noble earl opposite. He wished
fiat to
vnliply himself to what the noble eeri opposite bad
called the political significance of the treaty.
Is; he (the Duke of Newcastle) knew the meaning of those
words, be denied the political signincenee, but he admitted
that the treaty had most important political bearings.
The noble earl endeavoured to connect the treaty
with the annexation of Savoy, although he ad-
mitted that inning remonstrances had been made by
her Majesty's government. It was not sufficiently strong, I
however, to pleas* the late noble Secretary for Foreign
Affairs, who complained that the remoestreeces were
couched in frimelly Imgvage, but he (the Duke of Newcastle)
had yet to learn that because we were engaged in friendly
remomtrances with another power concerning the foreign
diplomacy of that power, they were to be excluded from all
friendly negotiation. He understood the argument tame-
what better, when some three weeks since the conduct of the
Emperor of the French was directly condemned by
certain hon. gentlemen in the strongest
But then came a paver charge, made by the noble
omosite, against her Majeety's government. The noble
earl said that this was • sop to England for assenting to the
annexation of Savoy. He solemnly denied that statement
on the part of the government,. and he could emirs their
lordships with equal solemnity that the policy of her Ms-
jeety's government would not be influenced by anything
that had been done with regard to this treaty. (Hear,
hear.) Whether the edits.. was carried or not it would
have no effect upon the treaty. He admitted that one of
the objects of the address was to give their lordship, an
opportuniiy of expressing their opinion with regard to the
treaty. The noble lord opposite said that this treaty was a
berzaia. It was not a bargain in the meaning in which that
word was used on this occasion. It was rather an exchange
of gift.. It was not a bargain, because they asked for nothing
from hence fur their own exclusive benefit, and they gave
nothing to Fleece which they were not ready to give to
others. Bat this treaty had one great advantage—that it
assisted the French government in introducing those
changes into the commercial system of Franoe which be be-
lieved would prove of the greatest benefit to that country.
France bed always been an exceptional ease, and from 1830
down to mine three or four years ego every government in
eneemem had endeavoured to effect an improvetnentof oar
ereminereial relations with France by means of treaty. In
the source of his speech the noble earl apposite touched
slightly on the question of wine as one which he thought
woad increase the deficit of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
He (the noble duke) thought the house were hardly prepared
for the very large DICTOIDO in the commmytion of wine which
took place after the treaty of Mr. Pitt. Certainly, if they
were to form any conclusions from what took place at that
period they ought expect an immovemeat of • much
more rapid character than had been anticipated.
He would not enter into any discussion es
to the
Banqutity of coal this country possessed.fa 18110, elMum supplied to France 1,756,000 tons of coal,
whale ffinalsed only supplied 600,01 X) tow. That wee the
Mat a the import duty placed by France on oar orals ; and
tie diet of an export duty from this country would be the
' elan. It was mid that the p iverunient wee contracting the
sphered Indirect taxation. It was true that the number
of taxable articles wee reduced from 1,2.00 to 44. But it
wee • mistake to suppose that a lees sum was obteined from
indirect taxation than before. In 1842, the Clito6lll and
excise revenue war 33,542,000 f. ; since then taxes of
11,100,0001. had been repealed ; but Notwithstanding these
reductions the amount el indirect taxation was now
40,087,00 W., being an Menem of upwards of 17 millions—
allowance being made for the amount remitted. (Hear.)
At this mother., under the operation of the new tariff, the
indirect to-es would form 78 per cent. of the whole taxa-
tion. They were ealy 81 per cent. in lAA and they had
Lees as low se 71 pm cent. Rio noble (Acrid had said that
by the treaty the ipwernment had abauilosied ell power to
imps any raiditima to the customs duties in the event of
• we; or any other innergesicy, but if be referred to clause
II„ he would see that they hid not precluded themselves
*ma increseng these &tau The noble earl opposite
said be was undecided as to the comae he would take with
angaratte the vete which was to be taken, and that if be
the cemying of the amendment was likely to be
to the that
_y or incoovenient to the course el
• business he weld not vote ire it. He really must
e e noble earl to decide fur himself which course he
business
wed& take, though be must lay he would deeply regret
ft the Mates wens negatived for many reasons. Ho felt
einildseit that the inelmations of the noble earl were right,
and Oat he would not wish to piece that house in opposition
to the vete come to by the Have of Commons. He hoped
the treaty would be stheleocial by their lordships as it had
been by the Wm: house, beams, he felt oertme, notwith-
standing all that had beim said that evening, that it would
add to the wealth and happiness el the peopled this
openly,- that it would add to oar Fecal 11110000 and by in-
mewing eventually our revenue; would equally tend to the
tutees
_strewth and security of Hashed. Under
them he did earnestly hope that their
lordthips would sanction to the messes', which was
enkellated to • the emulitien of both countries, and
mereever the
ooze between thane— a measure
I which even these who ' it admitted Lad 'waived the
approval of tie people at . (Hear.)
1 Feed GREY mid be yes gi•pered to yield to the applied °,
the noble mel and 'Whitley his amendment, but as ether
peer• entertainingqh. wee *Mons la him alf reepstag
the treaty, ealesieted on having an o unity of express-
tag them by their Take, be felt to press that amend-
;

mama pen. et the in* woe emeentwi, he was disposal
to egret with Lord Grey, who etheidered that the consent
of parlament would he mfficiently given by passing the
measures requisite to oury it out. To carry out the 11th
article, however, an act of parliament would be Dec...
, eery. The addrms, therefore, meld not have the slightest
effect upon either pert of the treaty. Bat supposing the
treaty to he a reel one, was the.pmeent the proper time for
adwtieg it, when a deficit of 9,0 M • had to be provided
for lie should be oily too glad if the deficit were no
greater, but be thought that the expenditure wee under-
tal and the itic,me over-estimated. The Chancellor of
ther Exchequer, having remitted taxes to the amount of
3,000,00Uf., oa enter to reimburse the public purse was com-
pelled to reirms me the war duties on tea end sugar, to raise
the ince mir•tas to 10d is the pound, and to collect 900,0001.
by wall duties on commas*. How was this deficiency to
I be met? Wi,v, by anticipating the revenue, the result of
which would be • deficiency of 11,000,0001. at least for the
next ,w provide for which the only means was in-
the income-tax. He denied the similarity of the
course taken by the /remit government sad by Sir R. Peel
in 1812. Sir R. Peel had taken off taxes he the belief that
it would occasion such en increase of indirect taxation se to
enable him to take off the inootiatix, but no send hope
was held out by the present government. 1110 ten-
d:aof the course pursued in the budget wee sai-
y to abolish all indirect taxation, and to mithilth •
large permanent income-tax In time of peaciacedetring
the treaty, however, to be beueficial, it warn
chased by • greet ascribe of revenue at • most V=
time. The treaty was characterised by haste want of
consideration. How could it be reconciled, if the commo-
dities of the two countries were on • fair and equal foot*
infer ar, that French silks were admitted free If chrt7 into
England, while English silks imported to Prance paid • 30
per cent. ad ra/orees duty ? There were no stipulatioes Aber
in the treaty that articles which are admitted into France
at present at less than 30 per tient, should not be mimed
to that amount upon the ratification of this treaty.
Another phase of the question was the political one.
(Cheers.) He did not my that it was the ab.
'elute duty of her Majesty's government that a
astiafactsh:u*selaration shout& be obtained from the
French we the subject of anaesatios
Notwit what had balsa from the noble lord the
Under Secretary far Foreign Agars it sue impossible for
this treaty to be ooesidredmink is • reenthereis_ I point of
view ; indeed it bed been declared the rah lord at the
heed el the Yereignoliee he be is.lsieealy • political
trearir. (Hen, kw.) The amble here (Lad J. Rummell'er
deted thei the Pima prededions proposal to
be relieved them ewer ail edition of actual conee-
queries or d nnhenseminpt the people d this wan-
try; sad that la fast the treaty was of importance not
only am a erthmeniel arrtheeneest, but on account
of its *collateral elhele—cw account at the Racial and politi-
cal reltions it west foster between the two countries. The
noble lard referred le the signifteuice of the treaty at the
present crisis, and singed that it would tend powerfully to
re-were the public mild. To what coiled th.it refer but to
the elate of Italy? At the moment the government wee
form* the treaty was their policy -their past, their exist.
tag, or their future policy—really to be identical with that
of Fiance! Were they Dot at that very moment
pursuing • course with _ regard to the settlement
of the affairs of bay which yaw in direct oppo-
sition to the ceurse punned by the French government?
Did they not receive ii that in the event of winis
contingencies Seel' would be eanexad to Prance ; adwith
that telligeirce re their pammaion, did they net pores-
verb* 'mute the perdition el Daly to reject the prove
ea Is of France, Red soled to that very state of thigs, is
tho Veen/ of which the Frisch guvenment had use need
the annexation of Savoy would take place? (Hear, beer.)
Did they make knows to the other powers of amps that
undet• oertain circumstances Preece had deeennined
en the annexation? Did they comsat with what
• soles lad bed rightly called that ealoweetee
sear Si es settlement of Europe which took place in 181111?
jtre They mat an in the coarse whisk had hurried Passes
lama haa, the Ina will* she said she would take, and they
ahollogil for tires moods from raying myelin—from
eseinandrating with the Trench government or from eon.
sea* with their allies, the other grestpowers of &lame.
Mier dole eiresinsesne it wee very =racquets in every
point If eke', that they should have originated that
law& he we. the firm conviction If many persists
maw • rep *eels to E•ilrid —or valor not to
=mirbirt to her Mapay's patent riven".
, leer) • -in order to enable them to obtain the
essatemire sE certain. pastier in the country ea wham alle
iair
4.1 -
y m w ight ar* bare been somewhat &abed a
few ; aad in return for that—he would not use
co straw. term as Nibs—but in return fee that really
materiel noel suletai Mai advant.me given to Fogland, at the
=pew, es was believes!. if Fames, her Mejesty's present
pmentiamst would be inatriled ia power ; and funs her
Meleety's prised goverment the gassernment lof France
and nor antolgateaor very eerier., appoeition, whatever
deigns they might boa speo Savoy. (Cisme )
He the wide eel) did at say that that was realty the
patron of licelhajestyiegoornmint ; hut it was as mkt-
taste cis umenwe that the negotiates' of the bear
should hove mussed es &moment which. condend sous
ideas! the tranisceimpessitb ( dew, hear ) In spies of
the hawse . her Maysidesi jj. eminent. in mien air the
areatmuce that Sabeeropica-within the hat few howeby
the onfewi'do 'Moister of the axone is another Placa
thee no step serail be Maio atheist wadi* the
Germ hoofers, red that if they objected to the
ammention of Savoy it would net take nip
what we. it tlot they hi* bossed? Theo, ewe toll HIM
not earn the vote.-el the pro*, of Mayi:7- would
thee-ravened ent ette. which woo goed.for Flees,B'.
Tseesov, fur Beinpm—selaicta was geed, in.shodo.foe y
nut ;nod Ise flavor ;. tad th: ►lawbutever might be lite
time ei the people of Same,. Slant weld
he eernesed to Prunes' awl the swath's of
Medd necessity or argniment woad be set aside. (a
Wee thie a creation on which the. King of
was free to act tlo Kiag et Itradinia who. by a
rasa stares had told thingeotth et throw distils thew
%medal to viaticum them? Wm he weirrantai in.rejecitag
the allegisoice el his .icteit We he viarrantedi in sea*
aside thme speeds Untie by Idle\ lie was bound to hrit-
Berland he authorised without the cu mmilot EtAMM
to make territorial eivangoniede ithiehbreketthougia the
treaties of 144 and ins Aid Idioms the thensek. at
which her Majesty's goeeniment thought ft to pro
claim to tile woad their desire 00t.31 1 to estandeal.
iambi re'...tions, but politic-atones sad Arica i et deeliby
action with the wok-feign of Flume. H that thaesimmiga
d Francs hail loyally fulfilled the oregireneent•hdrethicil
he hal entered ; he had respected the faith of tamatina He
(the Earl of Daley) depewated the rsommeneseent el the.
offfunate Italian war hat mar, ha did set admit that
the lay at the door of the libalperes dTrance
_anerehunie
▪ ving violated his Aglow& faith, or that he bed broken
treatise and arrangement,. But ig upon the premed clear
aim; vim a pretest- ,for it could be wahine hut a pretest
—if be, the mighty Emperor of hence, at the heed el thee
greet imp, re and of that warlike people, senowely intendlet
to add to his empire • small, Immo Mammy, tW.
peopled with the finest race of mashers almost in the aught,
in spite of trestle., upon the apprehension that that geed
empire would be anbject to 'swam by Santini, keened
that that pretext was was that he could net innoshoe UNA
any hems& being would put teemed with the a
idea that any use would be deceived by it. S
what was the consequence I The isemaquenoe
be, that far from encamp* hums uf
and the rednetia• of armament., from this neueneeMP.2
Dampe would be in • state of watchful expectation sad
anxiety as to what the next move wail to be on the pea of
Frease. The result would be, that whilst we had hollered
almost in spite of oniaellree that the empire was penny
while, we lad laboured to *loam outlaw that the Ike.
peror of France would in so degree shrink from kin
engegementa, if this annexation tea plaice wet
would it be for France, and • 'winos would ray
the wbokr of Europe as to the future policy of Parse,
milliose of treasure would be expended on the part lei=
country in Europe to be prepared againd every
contingency which no man could foresee.
TllO LA ikt.) CHA NCELLOR was understood to far dot
he wished to answer • questioia which had bean pet le
him, whether in his opinion au attire's to the crows ma
asweery to give veliihty to the treaty' He felt mom
sully I. replying that it was unnecessary, and news' mm
wore mepneol than when, on • former evening, he bond •
whip earl say that, in order to ratify the treaty, It would
be esesesary to peas so act of parliament approving every
article in it. In the Carted States a treaty would mit be
bending without the consent of the Senate, but by the con-
salaam of England the crown might make any treaty
within he prerogative. Serb an act required not the went
of parliament. Parliament might Wised censure, impeach,
or punish the ministers who had advised it, but the right of
the crown was undoubted. At the moms tines by 20th article
a the treaty, the present treaty end it shall art be valid
melees her &thank Majesty shell be authorised by the
sweat of her verb enas& to execute the eaporenionts con-
tracted by her in the present trusty. Now from this it is
phial that there are engegemeata which =mot be per.
formed without ti consent of !parliament Therefore, it
we. neoewery that parliament should authorise those eco
W. but sot fur the purpose of making the treaty
Zr-,:r The crown could not make • treaty here, as the
Emperor of the hunch could, to lower or raise duties of
importation or exportatioe : bin that could not be done
without the authority of pediment His noble friend
asked whether the 11th article required the went of w-
irers'. Now the 11th article mad, "The two high own-
tesetasg step out to prohibit the esparta-
am od coil, end to lereadee=uzin.
expertatina." His (the s)
was that it required no act of perhitmea. The
web an act of parliament could not in the
Warfare with the rights of the trews As to imam d
the treaty, it we. • purely commercial treaty, and he
isteepreted like other treatise
be hi the ideation. of VW SW
whisk were drew closer the d
=Z parties,
ip which smite the ten piggies." A. to whet had
hseLe initda.e.e sa•
peort
Le to forbid the imm swan n midst
Corn esd art, w Iles crown amid sot 4* ed esirefift
as. The treaty pawed. tad the crown *Ail do suet si
it hal don.', just as ff the treaty had never paaaed.Aetfms
owelethand of war (+ad owl for war cummee
wasfest as much as as gunpowder) might he
fieten expermtios. Tide had no reference whatever to
the Gemmel cial previsions of the treaty. After the almost
areleiroous consent which Cie Howe of COMM. OW haul given
to the trei:i, and taking into sccoent the ..rate of public
opinion upon the leestion„ he sincerely related there would

Their lombhipeAssi 4eliedoed the 1111111iblin Irede—
For the
• For the
The walks far tips align vom eilansaily (wrist ; ad
"4.einied et tries siaites to 2 o'clock.

~~~

HOUSE OF COMMONS —Tnritstuy, 11fAlca 15.
81.1411111 took the ehar al e few minutes before four
areVidel_per Water BM, the Liverpool Corporation Watts
Bill the Llaalaff sad Carrion Datacto Markets BM, the
Midland Runway Maass In M. Panama BM, the &brews*
bury sad Washpord leeway Bill, and the West Summed
Railway BM, were seed • third time.
The maideratios of the North Laudon Railway Bill wee
poetic:eked to to-messew (this dayl.
BEVERLET ILBCTION COMMITTEE
The membersseutted toyer,* upon thia ansmittes went,
roma uat the via., J. W. Evans, Req. (chairmen),
.Mori. F. Leveroa wee, Er E. Hayed, and Menem Orleans
and J. E. Hanketale.

THE BOROUGH OF NORWICH.
Mr. T. DIJNOOMBE pve sotice that be would, an
lloaday, move that a writ he issued for t►e election of
hurl/ewes to same ia this parliament for the borough of
Norwich.

NAVAL SQUADRON ON THE AUSTRALIAN
STATION, he.
Lord A. CHURCHILL asked the Secretary to the Ad-
miralty whether her Majesty's ship Fawn, which had re-
cently sailed for Australia, lad been sent there as an aug-
mentation to the squadron at present on that station, or for
the purpose of relieving weather vessel ordered home ; whe-
ther the attention of the t had been rarcd to the
fad that France had, wli6in the lad year, reorganised her
military and naval establishments at New Caledonia, sad
had now male it her principal station in those sees ; and
whether it wee inteaded to place oar naval 000121111011/11
cease upon • more equal footing with the head; by
meeting the Australian station into an admiral's command
Lord C. PAOET said he had to state that the Taws had
leen seat to relieve the vessel ordered home, and not sent
there as an augnientation to the forces of that colony. As
te the French goverament having increased their establish.
meat at New Caledonia, be meta inform the noble lord that
it was • mistake tomppoee that they had an adabtaliment
upon that station. They had an admiral in the Pacillc, and
a governor at New Caledonia under his command. We had
• commodore upon the Australian station, and than was so
intention to put an admiral there. (Hear.)
REGINTRATION OF VOTERB. _

efr OC. LiWllll min atoll he mold tot giro any ex-
Von the subject. ae neither the Secretary of
far ate Home De tot the Commilaionere of
Niko had an. to eat ih the matter.
G- OHM' LICENEUM

Mr. HARDlwlelaTidtirits;7wl;;;;;;;ond reacting of
the Eatiag•Housuf Licensee Bill would be taken?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, not
before nett week certainly; but he would to-morre• =-
souses the day. The bill bad been printed and circulated,
so that all pumas might know its contents'.
DRAWBACK ON WINE DUTIES.
Sir S. NORTIIOOI% inquired whether any arrangementa
had beta made with the wine merchants regarding the draw-
back of the ditty on wine.
The CHANCM ..LOR of the EXCHEQUER mid the wine
merchants were mewed in eassitheing the subject. They
had thought St to call a meeting of the trade, giving notice to
all parties throughout the country. They had informed
him that the meeting could not he held before Tuesday,
and, until that meeting, he could not make any communi-
cation to the bowie, but perhaps he would be able to de so
on Monday.
THE CHINA WAR EXPENSES.

Mr. BAllla 1;i1;a70 know whether the vote for the
expenses of the China war would be taken to-morrow, and
whether the papers were reedy to be laid on the table of the
hone..

Lord J. RUSSELL replied, that 6* proposed to take it to-
morrow and then he would make • short statement upon
the subject. The papers were not very important, and they
were not quite ready.
ME REFORM BILL—RATING RETURN&
_

In reply to Sir J. PAEOPOTON,
Sir G. C. LIWIS said that the returns referred to were
merely an abstract of longer returns, known as Mr. Locke
King's returns moved for lad ses.sion. The column relat-
ing to the 10f. occupiers in counties, gave the return framed
by the Pow-law Board, and which had been prepared
with considerable labour, and had been printed at
great length. He *keyed it was a trustworthy
and accurate return. It gave the occupations of all.
He spoke from memory, .but be believed that it did not
distinguish males from females, nor did it distinguish
between resident and tion•residoOt occupiers, nor between
the ones of freeholders who wen occupiers. Therefore a
very considerable deduction would have to be made from
the total amount in order that they might ascertain what
would be the actual increase to the franchise under the
Reform Bill. He was not aware that it would be possible
within a reasonable period to obtain a morn complete return
than that on the table.

Mr. T. DUNCOM BE asked the Secretion of State for Fo-
reign Affairs if hum his intention to intr.:shoe ony measure
during the lament session .to render the registration d
voters more frequent.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he had no intention to introduce
a bill for the purpose this evasion.
NEWSPAPER STAMPS.

Sir S. NORTHOoTii:sitei the Chancellor of the ?Ache.
quer whether newspaper proprietors who may have in their
possession any stamped sheets on the day when the pro-
posed new rsgtdatioes for the abolition of the impressed
stamp take effect., will be allowed to tee than, and to
retain the privilege of sending them free by post.
The CHANCELLOR of the =CHEQUES said that
some arrangement for the purples would undoubtedly have
to be made, to prevent the proprietors from Ming actual
losers of the pnee of the stamp. He could nut possibly
name a day fur Miumencing the new system, and at the
Moe time providing fur parties to re-tranielit the news-
lA:sfree of postage. He was sorry that in 001+14qUellote
indispositilo of Sir R. Hill, it had bees impossible to
carry forward the anaagements so rapidly as be could wish.
That had been the cause of the delay, but he hoped nu long
time would elapse before the regulations would be com-
pleted sad tarried into effect.

REHM TOR PORTISIifi, he.
Mr. BLANEY salmi the Seoretary of State for the
Home Departaasst if prayikies °mkt be made for who
for porters Riad others carrying heavy burdens, ou or 011111,
the great lutes of public thoroughfare, ia plooedead d ad-
daton to those removed.

31 li'Jlllllol "Alfa r*I(TIA r.
TEE EXPRESS. FRIDAY EVNING, meleH-16; 1860.

together with the increased receipts from other souring of
income, they would be enabled to dispense with this im-
post at the end of the year.
Bir R BRIDGES, in seconding the amendment, said
that as no one could deny that beer was one of the beet, if
not the very best beverage both for rich sad poor—(laughter)
—everything used in its production had • cisim to the
consideration of the legislature. All the hop growers asked for
the present was, that no duty should be fixed to continua
upon hops, either customs or excise duty, after the 'wird
mentioned in the amendment, but that it should be left
open to future consideration whether it would be dearth*
after that time, to continue any duty at all.
Lord HOLMEBDALR who addressed the house for the
first time, urged that excessive hardship was inflicted on
the hop writer by this unjust and vexatious tax, and that
the loos fell upon the hop growers, not upon the hop factors.
He believed this was, except the tax on chicory, the only
duty levied on any raw unmsnufactured article the pro.
duce of the sod of this reentry. The amount of the tax
was sometimes more than the price which the grower could
i obtain, and it was a fact that n many cases lately hope
had been exported merely for the sake of obtaining the
drawback of excise allowed for exportation, and then the
hops had been thrown overboard in mid-Channel.
Dlr. JOHN LOCKE said that many of his own consti-
tuents were hop-factors and he could not admit that, as the
noble lord had said, they threw the. whole burden of this
duty on the planters. It was by the factors, who
purebred the hope, that the duty was paid ; and
as they had large stocks on hand at the present
time, it was most important to them that the
reduction of the duties should be deferred until they had
got rid of their existing stocks
Mr. DKEDES observed that the system proposed
by the • Chancellor of the Exchequer was an en-
tirely new system: the right honourable gentleman
proposed to place them in a position which they
never held before. The hop-grower now looked earnestly and
anxiously at the future, and he asked himself this question
—Would it not be better that all duty should be entirely
wept away than that the differential duty, as proposed by
the government, should continue This question, he be-
lieved, the hop-growers had answered easily. They did ad
wish at present to embarrass the financial operations of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, but they wished to be re-
lieved from all duties, and all the world to be opine to
them. (Heat) The ultimate effect would, of course, be that
inferior hop land must go entirely out of cultivation, bat
eve! this would be better than to have them always exposed
to an uncertain sad haniesing competition. As to the
system of "credits," he had always thought they were
unwise and impolitic. He preferred the arrangement
now devised by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that there
should be a fixed time for payment—(da:eh he thought the
best time, as it would give the grower ample opportunity
of realising without being under the thumb of the factor,
and because the payment would come into the financial
year)--and, moreover, that under no circumstences should
there be any remission. The Chancellor of the Exchequir
was, in kis opinion, quite nOt in naming • day upon which
all duty should be levied. The foreigner undoubtedly pos.
sewed • great advantage over the home hop-grower by being
able to avail himself of the system of bonding, and be could
see "no reason why this privilege should be dented to the
home grower, who would for the privilege cheerfully pay
I the expenses On the part of the hop-growing district with
which he was connected, he begged to say that they were
ready and willing to stand the test of perfect and 'lithe free
trade—(cheers)—they would stand or fall by it whttevet
might be the result; but he mustmy it was strange to see
• government which avowed itself • free trade government
refuse to entertain a proposition so much in 11.000h111106 with
their general professions. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PEVENSEY expressed his attire astonishment at
the course which the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor
of the Exchequer meant to pursue. The real question was
whether they were to have a free trade in hops. as proposed
by his side of the house, or a fixed protesting duty r con-
tended for by hon. gentlemen on the Treasury beaches.
(Hear, bear.) This was, indeed, reversing the position of
parties. (Hear, hear.) The great free-trade Chancellor of
the Exchequer was now the champion of • protecting duty ;
but there was something more than this, for the proposal of
the government must be to place our own hop grower in •
decidedly more unfavourable position than the foreigner. If
there was to be competition let them start fair—(hear,
bear)—and his belief was, that if the shackles were taken
off our own hop producers, they would be able to compete
with the fore er. (Hear, bear.) The noble lord then
went into calculations showing the difficulty, uncertainty,
and expense attending the hop cultivation, and how nano.
Kimble and unjust the proposal of the goverment was.
He could not conceive how the committee could refuse
their sanction to the psi:maple which they had ratified over
and over again. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. AYILTON said be should vote against the motion.
This was not a proper time to raise the queetion, and there
was great inconvenience in doing so on the present cession.
If lie were sure there would he no deficit in the exchequer
next year he would support the views of hon. memberaz-
puede. It was not fair to create a gap in the budgr
out suggesting another form for filling it up. (" Oh ' eh.")
DO Mr. DSON explained that all be proposed to do was
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should take the duty
for this year, leaving the question open for souther 110111i011.
Mr. AYItTON contiuued—lf that was all that was in-
tended by the amendment he thought there was no merit in
it, but that the discussion was an idle one. (Heat bear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
declined to swept the proposed amendment as a means of
cheapening beer. He behaved beer to be • wholesome,
national beverage, and he should regret any decrease in its
consumption, but lie did not believe that any fiscal regula-
tion could interfere with its general use. But the way to
increase its consumption was to stimulate employment
and wages for the people, and that was expected
to be the result of this year's budget. The 'Amour-
able member for the Tower Runlets wag ,
right in
saying that this was • question of revenue . It
was a question of the revenue for the present year. But
ho objected on still broader grounds to the proposed pro-
ceeding. His hon. friend said that his object was to keep
the question open. Why the question of the repeal of •
duty was always open, and it was competent for any
.mem-
ber at any time to propose it. They had many terminable
taxes, and the house had made them terminable in order to
strengthen its own constitutional power. But this tart
was differently placed. Did any gentleman place the in-
come tax on a level with the hop duty ? ("Certainly.")
Tke hon. gentleman cheered, but until he did so, he (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) had not been aware
that he took any interest in the discussion. (A laugh.)
The income tax was a powerful resource, but it had never
been made a part of our permanent revenue. (A laugh.)
The question had been adjourned from time to time, but the
case war different with the hop duty, which had been • per-
manent source of revenue for the last 40 or 50 years. The
I case of the tea and sugar duties was most special, the in-
crease having been put on solely for the purp sof the
war, but there was nothing in the hop duties more
than in the fire or marine insurance duties, and there
were many others which were similarly situated, being all
duties the removal of which would be most desirable if
Losable. If we were to take more and more duties and
. . . .

make them terminable it would in his opinion be a most
Jbjectionable course. The proposed rate did mot weaken the
position of the hop planters, who for the whsle of next
year would have a differential duty of 6s. Surely that in
14a. *as enough of preference to satisfy any one. He must
franhiyy tan the hon. member he could not acquiesce in his
amendment, as they would but be the means of 'stirring up
endless entharrasments, and leaving them to those who
right come after. They had in tact shown every con-
sideration for the hop grower, postponing the question of
the duty until 1861. The present rate was proposed for
twelve nionthat and to meet the nee they had
made a relecnon of 30 per cent, which would
amount to 100,000/. a year. He did not think
that the proposed reduction would lead much to the impor-
tation of foreign bops. Any possible accommodation he
was prepared to give, but to abandon this duty for the ser-
vice of the present year was impossible. He felt bound to
resist the amendment in Its present form, but neither could
he promise his support if it assumed any other.
Mr. HARDY contended that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer might have taken the duty for the present year,
and that in taking an opposite course he was doing the
thing which he himself had complained of. The rkOt hon.
gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had in he loug
statement given the committee no reason why the tax should
remain. (Hear.) He bad come to the firm conviction that
for the benefit of the hop grower, the hop factor, and the
county generally, the only satisfactory course would be to
get rid of the excise altogether. (Hear.) The duty had
always fluctuated in a moat extraordinary manner, and
therefore it was the kind of tax which might fairly be re-
inpn some years the crop was not even worth the
reye d.
to be id upon it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was anxiouss
to remove what he thought an unfortunate misstatement of
the hon. member who had jest eat down, and who had said
that he (the right hon. gentleman) called ups the House of
Commons to pledge itself aa to the course to be taken in
some future year. On the contnuy, he wished to leave this
subject precisely on the same footing as all the other duties
were to be left. (Hear.)
The committee then divided. The numbers were :
For the amendment
Against it l3B-34
The amendment was accordingly lost, and the resolution
Weed to.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, it
was resolved that in lies of the duties now payable upon
ships, with their tackle, apparel, and their furniture, there
should be charged upon all ships keeign-built of wood, and
upon all shi built of wood in any of her Majesty's posses-
Mena aiwuad, on the registration thereof es British ships at
say port or pion in Great Britain and Ireland, a customs
IVla fur every ton of the gross registarei tams's%
OILLIRMAN then