The Express.
London, England, 1867-02-26 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 26, 1867.

perhaps he will quarrel with me for telling
him so—is a wiser speech than any I heard him make last
session--(hear, hear, and laughter)—and if he advances
11.nd improves at the pace at which he is evidently tra-
velling, I have no doubt that before this question is settled
we shall have something very lucid from him in favour of
a substantial parliamentary reform. (Hear, hear.) Bat
hon. gentlemen opposite have become reformers. The
right hon. member for Huntingdon (General Peel)—l see
him there (laughter and ministerial cheers)—the right
bon. gentleman nods aseent—(renewed laughter)—he is a
reformer now. I would not charge him with wearing a
mask. Eight or nine years ago, when the present Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer came to his seat on the opening of
parliament he had two colleagues by him, one of whom
sits near him now, and at the end of abort a fortnight or
three week., when the Reform Bill was introduced, those
colleagues retreated to • back bench, and one of them told
the house that during the period since parliament met he
had worn a mask, and if he did not say it lam sure he
wished the house to believe that it was a very unpleasant
process. (Laughter.) Well, the right hon. gentleman the
member for Huntingdon has not worn • mask. The noble
lord the member for Stamford has not worn a mask ; the
right hon. gentleman the President of the Board of Trade
has not worn • mask ; they have all shaken off the uncom-
fortable and impossible habiliments of last year, and have
come before us as reformers, and all the honourable gentle-
men opposite are prepared to follow them. If lam
disposed to say a word of ridicule upon that, do
not for • moment believe that I regret it. lam
very glad that you are reformers, and what is more you
will be very glad of it hereafter—(cheep)—and your chil-
dren, when they look upon the records of this parliament
will judge you the more favourably, the more honestly
and generously and completely you do the work which
you now apparently are permitting your ministers to try
to do. Last *mien I took the liberty of telling hon. gen-
tlemen opposite that though they got rid of the bill and of
the government they could not get rid of the question of
reform, and that they would have to meet and settle it
with the people of the United Kingdom. And now they
have come clown to parliament and are attempting to settle
it. Do not try to settle it upon • hocus pocus which men
in this house may agree to without reference to perilous
outside. People outside know that this house is not in
favour of a far-reaching or any complete measure of re-
form—(hear)—and if it had not been for the pressure from
outside neither the government now in, nor the government
that was turned out, nor any government for the last
fifteen years, would have undertaken to deal wi'h such a
great and dangerous question. But if there be this pressure,
why, in the name of all that is sensible and wise, why
should we not attempt to step at least as far forward as
we can to meet the views and the honest sympathy and
desires of the most intelligent and most resolved portion
of that great body of the people which is now excluded.
(Hear, hear.) If you tinker this little bill—(laughter)—if
you stick to this 6/. rating franchise, you but " touch the
lips, bat leave the palate dry"—(cheer.)—the great body
of the people will repudiate your measure, and I venture
to say that the very first session of parliament which is
held after an election upon that bill, you will have
further opposition from the house—certainly with regard to
the franchise, and I believe also with regard te the distribu-
tion of seats. Now the right hon. gentleman some years ago,
just before he was leader of your party, made a
very remarkable 'speech upon another question, and he
showed how very awkward, and almost how impossible, it
is fora member of this house in office to undertake to
carry great questions which in opposition he had been con-
intently opposed to. I will read to the house a quotation
from his speech, and it will give them and hon. gentlemen
opposite some idea of what the right hon. gentleman would
have said if he had been sitting on this side now, or, as I
am, standing here and discussing the present position of
the borne. It was on the subject of the grant to Maynooth,
for which Sir Robert Peel had introduced • bilL The
right hon. gentleman said he opposed the bill on account
of the man by whom it was brought forward—(laughter)
that he did not think the gentlemen who were then seated
on the Treasury bench were morally entitled to bring for-
ward such a measure. " This measure, Sir," he said, "in-
volves a principle against which the right hon. gentleman
and all his colleagues have all along signally struggled.
When I call to mind all the speeches, and all the
motions, and all the votes which have emanated
from the present occupants of the Treasury bench on this
and analogous questions, I consider that it would be worse
than useless," said the right bon. gentleman, "to dwell
at any length upon the circumstances which induce them
to adopt that opinion and are we to be told that, because
those men who take the course to which I have adverted
have crossed the floor of the house, and have abandoned
with their former seats their former professions—(ironical
cheers)—their measure is to remain uncriticised and un-
opposed, because they tell us that we are to look to the
merits of the measure, and forget its authors and their former
protestations." The right hon. gentleman added that he
believed the noble lord (Lord John Russell) who then wit
near where I now stand, the hereditary leader of the
whip, would not withhold his concurrence in the principle
thus laid down. "The noble lord," he added, "the re-
presentative of Mr. Fox, will not gainsay the motto of
that great leader—men and not measures—and," said the
right hon. gentleman, addressing the hon. gentlemen
who now support the government, or such of them as were
then in the house, "how has the opposite system an-
swered? You have permitted men to gain power,
and enter place, and then carry measures exactly the
reverse of those by which they conducted the
opposition, and by which they gained power.
There is the minister," said the right hon. gentleman,
pointing to Sir R. Peel, " who repeatedly brought for-
ward as his own measures those very schemes and pro-
of which when in opposition he always avowed
Untlf the bitter and determined opponet, and let me
ask the admirers of the minister if they would have sup-
ported those measures if they had been introduced, not
by him, but by the noble lord"—or as I may now may, by
the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone)? (Cheers.)
Do not let hon. gentlemen opposite imagine for
a moment that if their government is anxious to
carry a real, substantial, conclusive, and satisfac-
tory bill, and if they are ready to support it, that
therefore I should factiously oppose their bill.
But having turned round—having become reformers—
having concluded at half-past two to-day that they
would allow the right hon. gentleman to appear in • new
character as a reformer in this house—(" No, no," and
hear, hear)—l auk them for their own lake, and for his
sake, and for what is worth infinitely more than their
reputation or his official position—:or the interests of this
great question, ar.l for the satisfaction of an excited and
an anxious people—(" oh, oh," and opposition cheers)—
that this measure, if it be passed this session, should be
one at least which will release me, and every other man
who is in favour of reform, from any further opposition
and agitation of the question during our parliamentary
life. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. WALPOLE urged that instead of the govern-
ment taking a course which would in the least
degree impede the settlement of the reform question
or prevent hon. members from putting their views before
the house, they had taken the best means to scoots plish
the end generally desired by introducing these resolutions
instead of a bill. With regard to what had fallen from
the right hon. member for Caine. he might observe that
the very principles which the right hon. gentleman urged
upon them were the very principles on which the govern-
ment measure was based. He ahould forbear entering
into any discussion on these resolutions, because the
matter was not distinctly before the house. When it I
was, he ventured to say that in point of principle the
measure of the government would be found to meet the
full requirements of the people, and to embody in its
provisions a liberal and free extension of the franchise,
based upon considerations which would insure permanence
to the constitution. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. LAING said that he felt very strongly the force of
the observation of the right hoe, member for Caine, that
if they once departed from the 10f. line, they would in-
evitably come to household rating. There could be no
practical resting half-way house between the two. He
therefore certainly did hope that • conservative gorern-
meet, in bringing in • measure of reform, womb' have
recognised that fact, and proposed such means as they
thought necessary to prevent the mere ascendancy of
number ; and it was evident to him, from the speech
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that if
the right honourable gentleman was unshackled he
would have done so. If a large, liberal, and comprehen-
sive scheme, coupled with duality, had been brought for-
ward by • conservative government, and supported by the
conservative party, he believed it might have been accepted
by • large number of liberal members ; but he could not
help feeling that with the solution now proposed the
country might fairly ask the house this question—" If you
are ready to do this now, why did you not do it last year?'Without oommitting himself as to what course be should
take if they arrived in committee on the resolutions, he
thought it only right not to conceal the opinion he enter-
blared, that with regard to the redistribution of seats, the
proposition was very imperfect ; and with respect to the
franchise, the opposite resolution to that proposed would
be the wiser and more entirely conservative.

Mr. GLADSTONE having disputed the accuracy of the
returns upon which the estimates of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer were based, observed that his proposition
would not have any appreciable effect upon the working
classes, while it might be made the means of manufactur-
ing" faggot votes" to an immense extent. The measure
would not admit to the franchise more than one half of
those whom the bill of the late government would have let
in, and could not be regarded in the light of a final settle-
ment While thus expressing his dissatisfaction at the
principal portion of the scheme, the right hon. gentleman
spoke in terms of warm approval of their bold proposal for
the punishment of those corrupt boroughs which had been
reported against. With regard to the course of prom.
dure, he suggested that the consideration of the subject
should be adjourned until Thursday next, and that the
government would in the meantime reconsider their de-
termination to proceed by resolution.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in reply,
suggested, amid general laughter and repeated cries of
" ithdraw," that the last resolution should he taken
first, so that, if agreed to, the boundary commissioners
might get to work at once. He was, however, quite will-
ing that the further discussion of the series should be
adjourned to Thursday.

Sir G. Grey and Mr. Roebuck recommended the with-
drawal of the resolutions in favour of a bill containing
definite propositions, while Mr. Warner and Mr. Serjeant
Couple° commented upon the scheme as eminently un-
satisfactory.