The Express.
London, England, 1858-07-31 00:00:00

(Stamped id. Additional.) [TWOPENCE;

in those sentiments I fatly concur, and I think It desirable,
whether by proclamation or otherwise, if any doubt on the
subject exists, that full notice should be given to the natives
of India that the change which has taken place involves
no change of policy in this reepect. With regard to the
manner in wbiob the announcements in question should be

made, I do not think it is usual to send oat from this coun-
try the express words which the Governor-General is to nee
without giving him any power to modify or alter them.
The whole question is, however, under consideration ; but
my own impression is that it would be better to leave the
Governor-General to do what is necessary in his own lan-
guage and his own manner. My answer to the right
km. pntleman la that there will be an announcement of the
transfer of the government of India from the company to the
crown, and that cane will be taken to same the people of
India that that change does notinvolve any tederferenos with
their habits or feeliup in matters of religion. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. SPOONER deprecated the principle of proclaiming
total indifference as to the religions habits of the natives of
India This wee • doctrine which ought not to be advocated
ha a Christian samohly. The government ought to avow
its belief that the only true religion was the Christian.
Mr. ROgEßUCKpmposes pretested against the use of power for
po selytildn.
Mr. KINNAIRD said that no one wished to ampler the
powers of government for such pupate. Bat the com-
plaint was that a fair and just equality had not been main-
tained between the religious denominations In India.
Mr. BOWYER said that it was a fair question on this
point to decide what form of Christianity ought to receive
the countenance of the government.
Colonel SYKES denied that there was any prejudice
whatever in India against the employment of native
Christiana. _ _

GILPIN expressed his =Fielded approbation of
the doctrine laid down the President of the Indian Board
ca the subject of tty in Indts.
The }saes tbsa ptessided to take the Leeds' reasons into
meadderatka.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the Lords bad wished their opinions on three heads, and
the moat important of those in which say Alamos
had existed. They still 'misted upon two of their amend-
swats. Oat referred to the time allowed fee the **lca to be
Ores be
perlisassat if hostile were undertaken, to
which he rooommendsd floe haws to e Tbe other re-
.
faired to the provision in the bill which permitted military
commando= to be obtained by competition withered the for-
mality of the royal coasted. To this the Lords still objected
as mioonstitational, and proposed that the parliamentary
tide, which was given in the ones of all other appointments,
should not apply in this haittence. This was a principle to
which he invited the hotua to agree. He moved, therefore,
that the house do not insist upon its disagreement with the
Loniti anseedroente.

Ths fiPBAKER having put the question that the house
Jo not bidet on its disagreement to the amendments of the
Lads,
Mr. MOIBUCK said be traded the home would not ac-
cede to the Lords' amendment, but would insist upon per-
fect, open, and ea spirit/ competition in every case. (Hear,
. . . .

RAWLINEION did not think the nature of the
clause was clearly understood. The house was discussing
question. with respect to the Lilian army. in which the
whole question of appointments was different from those in
this country . Hcr Majesty appointed, ea the recommenda-
tion of the Secretary of State, and could ft make say differ-
ence whether it was the result of competition Ur et }Oats
petronsge, because Mho officers for the artillery and engi-
neers were not to obtain eupointmente through Ara-
petition, they would by the nomination of the ooue
He was not prepaid to ogee, the lords' mask sad he
won: terstarrvita 'nos demo Thiel dated to the cdvil
service that ail& poem a* shed' to
bat asediei*" ooseaillei fa the dense =.41-'
re= if =sit
beig
nol= Iflittja
0p.,. re fiserskay of Mob to have sash regulaticas that
eaull*Wle Wale WS, *mos might cameo with
the ~mat at Aildiplie* In the 014 sere
the
47•Mbst ihogellhisa bad been tried shed toad to
he easessdel. ft hod hem tried m the enshissea end
belletadtluit by agraping to the Lode roam they
TOM'sdYN de abbot in abetter and more ostisdniory way
then by theckuse as ft stood. This we. not a
(median et pimp to the aims classes, es whother the
oangstition was ”eN or whither the service were
doom* Addbeersald to smelled tease the=
disseal EVAN'S thought the sigunsat ei die hon. and
paha* °Ohm oaly made it mow aseapery the* the house
should stand its ground. _ _ _

Log PALMERSTON' mid !tetra the of those who want
enthelyis keened appointments leyeitilfte esamistedin.
He thought it was a great immenelnint es the eN
At the same thee be thought it wee net tenimseally
blie He thisaght that with mire is
civil service it wee an emellent mule% preridall Amin that
the etendard of llTAZahilikel w sotgsi teemir. 414 a"
pone= were not expiated te hi RR of keenhdige
then wee Demetary aa a Mat et that washy ter. thille GSM.
It was a good system elm for adiatille broaches sSye army,
benstee, with regard to them, atteismente were imehtedly
of the brat Inspvtance. At thalami lime Swim right "'admit
that the mtion of the system b the seiontifio branches
of the army was but of nowt standing, and those who
antertafeed a different °pinks from his own, might be en-
I titled to require a longer experience. He disagreed with the
boa. and learned member for Sheffield, as to applying the
principle to officers of the line. The test of learning that
they applied to • candidate for • commission was no mow I
nary net of hie capacity. It was just as if they wanted a
man to been excellent pngtllet, and the test that they applied
' was u to which of the candidates could run fastest. In his
opinion the house was right In retaining foe the
civil melds@ of India the system of competitive i
mamination which had now been established for
ameral:yeen. He was also of opinion that it would he dee
alroM• to 'dahlia' the ram system for the scientific branches
of the Innen army. It appeared to him the principle w
concettsd by everybody, and as far as he understood the
they woe sem called upon to determine thrutesser
tititt the cyders of competitive examination was to be
applied. He thought them was great form In the moment
that it weal be• deplature from the ordinary principles of
oey oisetltatke, that there should be passed en act of parlia-
ment which would render ft Imperative on the sovereign to
eignamaimlasion for a particular individual. He thought, that
the regulation ought to be stmlied to the molest ilk branee, but
by au order in council and not by regular law, and if, there-
fore, be understood from the government that they wets
an pledge themselves that they would issue order
o council 'i to
that the competitive system should be established
with regard to tLe scientific branches of the army, be should
ontainly prehr that mods of accompliebing the object. He
looked upon it as being simply • question of the way of do-
tag a thing, and not a guano* of what was to be done.
They wave now at a momeat when it wee desirable that this
bill should pass into a law. They bad almost all
of Item, in the course of the dimmelose which
had taken place upon this greet measure, bets
compelled to so rends *alone which they enter-
tithed. The result would be a general compromise on
the pert of all these who had taken any pert in the
item me, wad, as the lords had adopted ell the other recurs-
mendetiona which they had made, it would be mo-e graceful
te yield to them on this point.
Mr. WHITE ..id that if be stood steno, he should
divide the boom.
Colonel SYKES said If it was the intention of the President
of the Connell that the candidates should compete, as they
did in the English army, foe entering • military college, he
should go with him entirely.
Sir J. GRAHAM entirely agreed with the Chancellor of
the Exeltequer that this question of the patronage of India
had certainly been the obstacle foe half a oontu to the
transfer dale government of lochs to the crown. That had
really bees at the root of the enoutely which hod existed up
to the present Erne in the government of that mighty empire
being to the bands of • commercial body. It was said
that they were enamoured of the competitive mind* is
that house, and they wee told that it ought to be applied
to themselves. He did not wish to bandy ghee or jeers
betimes the two houses of parliament, bemuse he thought
that it would be a practice conducive to the dignity of neither.
(Hem, hear.) Otherwise be might ask why the principles
should sot ails be applied to the "Liteditery wisdom I"
(Cheers) Thai he hod heard attempts made to depreciate
the middle classes. They were told, for instance, that India
ought le be gowned by gentlemen, defintog gentlemen as
something between peers of partiament and those who bought
and sold. And those wen the arguments against compett-
ttre menhaden! (Lead chows.) Who was ft that had
busied the Wirt supine—who 11th VOlll is, All had ex-
tended It, end who were 110 W treasferring it to the mows?
Thom who bought sad sold—a coronary of sernit
ante.
(Cheere.)Tet,mirehanneforarottb, warrant to be Irseleiwhh.
the goverserent ef Ladle I (Reviewed therm) The lOU of
three who bought and sold—why should they pot he gentle-
men f (Seer, bear.) He knew that tailMSehe wets
dempmens, hat still he imald ask whet imariarta
• Imam ? (Cheers.) He should say that a
wee • man to whom were eadredfill
mount Cheleties priedpies, • man of enlightensd mind, id
of liberal whmostkra—a man who wee boort, was vidseree..
was lemourable. (Cheers.) And who should tell bite ihat
moonset Mose who void and then wits bought there ,uses
at man that might stand • comprises with ties IdgliteMv
born gudieems in the land ? (I mad cheers.) For what
were the eesquareee of India? Whet wet Meet The se
el=Whet wee Memo ? The Ka of a Sileggpg
bower end seller. What was *bloats? The
ten ef a sheep-totes fit hit (the right bon beset e) ours
sdightemeheed. (ammo.) Time were the UM vbeirli
wen India. asfi hid ersteinei car wayntwagy hi the Beet;
am did he lenbt that elm Obey saw dm remit of epee
itelities, fMsy wadi hoverer, run leek the saes eflbssterhe
bought sed add dlndil net titisleinthe omit al the saw
7, or tbashibistiVpmea el this tileawsre la wry deign
the =one of ahem)
Reteriti mit hems moment ent=destmll t mm
lidos rgiveisk to be open. He behead that epos eu
wadi greater moarity for the askew el the pablie
allrmsb lies pavane. PMemieg• Ind wesermally heis

abased for private end po Neal purposes, and it wu tropes-
sible by that plan to obtain any knowledge of the nominee.
Open competition, on the other hand, brought the candidate
before them, and they secured by its means many important
re-requisites. First of all, • successful candidate must have
had great industry and self-control, which were no mean
virtues, because they pointed to a preference for mental
pursuits over sensual Indulgences. (Hear, hear.) Then, it
seamed what mu t be considered • public vir-
tu), an honourable ambition to distinguish oneself in
the soantry's service; and whet was no slight domestio
virtue, • desire to earn the approbation of perm= and
Mends. (Hear, hear.) Those were the qualities which open
competition would secure ; and he deliberately preferred them
to the results of patronage and its corrupting influences.
(Loud cheers.) He did not think, therefore, that he was
violating any public interest or doing any injury to the pre-
rogative of the crown, when be would extend the principle of
open competition to a mall portion of the military patronage
of India. If, therefore, he was forced to a division, he should
record his vote against the amendment of the Lords. At the
same time he would put it to the house whether, under all
the circumstances, it was really right to go to a division at
ell ? Hs would pay no vain or idle compliments to the
noble lord the ?resident of the Board of Control; but
the noble lord had emphatically told them that he
would rather resign his office to-morrow than take
any step which, in his conscience and judgment,
he believed was subversive of the principle for which they
ware contending. Ha (the right hon baronet) would Ira-
Ha 4111 belis
not at noble Irad
the noble ioarndd wowed trust to
We difficulty
the
chemseenees at the present moment; bat he did not balm
that be =ad wnpppportrt the amendment new proposed if he did
not belie= it eoaduaat with the =automat of the prin-
ciple he had waked, He (the right hon. baronet) admitted
that then was wash la the thessreataa d the has. gastlemat
(Sk H. Bac/Sam) ; bat =patience trend skew whether
the ottioPOSiinTisof volg'higallPPl b 7 ezt
or ma even ender int atm& Ile hoped
test as —Amid mot hi rased to • with regard to the
=Wrath be Marlathed the great= doubt; bat if he
ImbliteMdissi It his duty to Tote against the Lards'
lard SUE% malt agreed with every word that had been
sehl by the ebtla boa- baronet with sap= to the adveatage
of • erism at spa °competition over a system of patronage.
He used wlth bin eiltineotkie. mainsela which by im=
Son he bad wale apes twasehe that had been o
ethewlens ca the sane He was willing to repeat
the pledge be bat ventured to give • few days before,
namely, that he would rapt= nothing himself, and
weld sapport no coming from whatever quarter
it might, which In his conscience and judgment he
believed would be Motile to the principle of open and
unrestricted com tition. (Cheers.) What, however, they
had then to aondder was whether in consequence of the
amendmelite which had been wide in the clause, that
principle was really in danger P Now, it must be remem-
bered that they were not dealing either with the civil or
with the military service, bet that they were dealing ex-
clusively with what ware called the scientific) branches of the
Indian army, the artillery end the engineers. Nor was it
whether open competition should be tho mode of admission
fah thembranthes of the services but whether the camped-
live Wotan should remain, as now, under en order in council.
(Hear, beer.) Now what was the practical difference between
the clam as it was sent op to the Lords and as ltnow stood ?
At the present moment the competitive system rested upon
the security of an order in council, bad= by the adrenal
haling of the public, end by the power of that house to in-
Mehra if there were the least attempt to shrink from
the principles now laid down. The statutory security
'shied the Mass was supposed in its original state
he ham given was rather a supposed than • reel one.
Ida hiegeep was that perm= should be recommended to the
crown kills order in which they lad some out of the
examhatirm ; and thin tram nothing in the dam that
empellid the cadts to appoint any number of persons to hold
a err arias =der 1l Hear.) If, therefore, they looked
he • Israel gamentee they would have It nearly as strong
under lbs medal u under the original clause. If they
imbed for • moral parades they had it as much now as they
had WM the chase we. al (Rear, bear.) ilteal7in-
.
011116 bringingof open
,wial it way.sec
EveryVlM over soars important convert es ; ens the
power that government or relimente conNi beteg to beer
ree
Mel ft would mite avail nothing. Holding that
he (the nodegoisme lord) wu the lees erateltma
obi= the ks of the machinery b which .
it we. anted eat. (Haw b., ea.) Per what, he wouy ld Sok,
had be plead In et the Owl*? The scisatlllo
see Gm sveishe s linked extent ;
gal err ethatrame thayhei piled !If baying it intro•
am man ea mist fa 011ailies se much red
:With regard to the civil the principle had
teal resat year been in en act of per.
end had
es ~864 P never till bowlesrr* visaed
therefor, th in its percentpercentat
plailk_ OM, at
WS der sell are Dar fielitaalles at what bad btheneen
haw (611Nes.) Tainpelmilpi al applied to the civil sm-
ite had gime to it • Owl vs/ saiAtit security • eta
as aped= the •serntsay woke, ft had been
pheel en the same tbottag as ft hod ma-
r= with regard to the civil service five years
age, when competition was established by ea order in
consul, and not by an act of parliament. (Hear, hear.)
On the whole, thankee, It seemed to him that the difference
between the original clause and the amended one was so small
that, coneklarlag in how many respects the Lords had given
way, they would be justified In scar pting the amendment.
Mr. CONINGH all would greatly prefer a statutory
regulation of the maker to on order in council. The way in
which patronage wee administered et the Horse Guards
made him very unwilling to increase the power of the mart;
sod with regard to Addiscotobe, he me compelled to say
that the opinion he had formed of It was not favourable
either as regarded its morals or its discipline. (Divide.)
The house divided—
Ayes
Noes .

63-46

TULIN sessiklatts mere thus opted to. It yr air
deressissi tr swam with dr Lords in soother amendment
id wham imprimis.
_ _ ;AMU OOVStYflltliT BILL.

The Lordit72;67llmi;ti;e;i•iisii;r4sad agreed to.
Mr. COWPER sipmesa a fear that the not would be
made an iestruanant of in large manufactating vil-
lages. His experienced and vestries led him to
the conclodon that they wen frequently actuated by petty
ante. He thought that the exemptions provided by the
Hawn of Lords were very inadequate ; but as there was no '
chums of the matter befog reornaideted by the other house,
be should not promo to dkr4rm with their amendments.
The Lord: amendments to the A:Bowing bill, wen con-
sidered, and agreed to :—Government of British Columbia;
Cornwall Submarine Mines; Clerk of Petty Semions (De-
land) Friendly Societies Act Amendment; Art-Union In-
demnity; Reformatory Schools (Ireland) ; Metropolis Local
311tommment Act Amendment; and the New Writs, Bills.
DIVORCE AND MATRIMONIAL CAUSES ACT
AMENDMENT BILL.
The Lords' reasoes for disagreeing to one of the Commons'
amendments in this bill were omiddered.

Altos a ersteorsetlos It was agreed that the house should
hoist t Its sareadatear. as be ma regarded thous 5.
JIJDORENTII (IRELAND) BILL.
The Lords' ataiodsonte to this WI were coma:red sad
sena to.
CIVIL BILK (IRELAND) BILL.

The Len& aspaaanesmovire aged Si.
THE ATTORNET-RENREAL'S FEES.
Mr. SCHNEIDER will be 'keel to give 'onto explana-
tion with refers= to a sperks which he had put the other
night to the Attnnter,General. That question anise oat of
the resolution of Dud Roth... which had recently hien
affirmed by the bore ; bat he believed that that resolution
would revs utterly abortive. He agreed entirely in the
spirit in white It wag dr wn ; bat the I wee so wide
that It euslinced a rulittede of care which had not been
contemplated by the nab lord. Indeed the noble lord bad
inferred headset he new meant it to apply to the care of
the Attruey sad WNW General.. But the language of
the .ss.lat Catemed every clew of advocacy in that
boutwialatelenhar, under all clumenstanoes, and it was
red a est that it embraced the Attorney and
Ssidtet He bed selected the Anorney-Oeneral
thaws' le wth s piths 'Meer, and bathes it could not by
nay peesthilley be messed that he bed any personal reason
41=ft the qv •se. The as be no-
vae sot psid by ealarytttliVral;nd it never
raid be the Weed= of the Mir le deprive him of him
fees. He hoped the sevenneen_ t elil tessider the tarter
Wag ths releth mos
Le forward wthetheolation to carry
eut the epee rant of Le itothwa.
jiii TM ATTORIIIIIT-013NE aft/. the Teethe
but
bspeeteat es *oft, not only of the bar but
eassebths ad pulbeteet greraily, ' eight of every .
Pof los ft dm to commit ossestiest
rue pleatutz;
11,1:
d selblre,theroneno timmuniseigrallit Illittires letend:a 4
is to cast any thapalmika who, of the legal psw.
Tendon. He warewer• that semi on tb•
"abject existed It bad Dew
seggeeted that khrbrieS2Terseie • very large
ethe—deth it was, stelli4s did the claims of an
lodise polaso la. sot . °imam "
it w*
Ise Wet te wawa sa "Mot eve. (Her=
bat it sired. her Ilie 'et stating that on a re-
ceittooosidenirisbegird 11/1111 offered to him by
*eke, or what he mo-
ose et these
Mend jestbe. thew, asellessent, to seprrt kb
ahem. ge repthille Me SOW sae wee not • runs of
of that kind
Swat,
wag lirerietentsi*2 eareirtedsee el duty =variety,
1.. je an _ wean oder", Mtge
* of • lei ion lift attempted. He
ariarbi dr oethlothell 'be bed celled attention to the
estet, that It was hie %baths, meths matte* pnati
za
the
bee
at
tke next stethee, Se eon the attiatioe of
=to the reeelalka width bed he owlet at the is-
obar of hit boa. Mod, tad whit& rase hmegined wet en
frees I. yeeddlit say asewher of the bar thee meeting there-
aseedoe, sot =like =Skies does la the theriterp of their
thaw se ambers of tits heath bat let giving ea opkdat oa