The Express.
London, England, 1860-09-19 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, 'WE DNFSDAY EVENING, SEPTEMBER 19, 1860.

would booms the subject of inquiry. Mews. Mulelay and
On. yen elated as creditors for 25,0001. They had become
liable ca sesomroodation bins for the bankrupts ; their bills
were out, and be could not understand how they could be
called auditors : it should be put in the ladancealseet as a
liatatity. Yr. Model had not paid one shilling on the
bills, sad wad not, therefore, be called a creditor. These
bills wore oat, and both the bankrupts' and Monday's
estate wan liable to the bolder'. It might be convenient
for the bankrupts to treat the accounts in this way in their
ledgers and in the balanoe-eheet, to prevent a very large
amount of accommodation bills appearing on the face of it.
These were the moot objectionable features, and considering
the voluminous nature of the amount' there bad been but
little time for inquiry.
Mr. Murray said that with reference to the account of the
profits, it appeared in detail in the balance-sheet. It had
been gone through by the &mignon, and checked by them.
There was no doubt credit bad been given to debtors whose
debts turned out to be bad. Their debts had increased,
and bankrupts could treat the account in no other way than
making oo them those chargesnenally made by persons in
their trade. He denied he had made any apology for the
Inakrupte ; his dot was to protect the interests of the me-
ditate, apd he did not feel it neesamay to make charges
to-day which bankrupts might not be in a position to meet.
- • • -

Mr: lenklater propelled to examine Mr. Laurence, one of
the bankrupts.
Mr. Thomas laurence was examined.—His firm were
creditors of Smith, Patient, and Smith, now bankrupts.
Before the 30th of June in the present year he
knew they had a large stock, and debts owing
to them aR over the country. He had reason
to believe that they were trading far beyond their
Capitol. He knew they were very short of money but
thought the legacy they would receive under their father's
will would Fiat them in a good position again. He had
ream to believe they were insolvent before June last. He
said they made • large loss by Payne and Clark, but he
thought they would surmount that. He could not say
exactly when he first became aware that Smith and Patient
were insolvent. Payne and Clark stopped about • year ego,
and he was not then aware that Smith and Patient bad
mad* such • large km by them. He OM believed that
Smith end Patient were insolvent when Payne and (Mark
tailed, The Ant intimation he had was in the spring of
1859. Mr. Patient told him they had a surplus of 20,0001.
an the 31st December, 1818. ln the erring el 1869
Mr. Herbert Smith told him that Payne and
Clark would stop payment unless they obtained assistance.
He did not think Mr. Herbert Smith spoke of the propriety
of himself or Smith Patient, and Smith stopping payment.
He might have told him that they would have to assist him,
and Smith, Patient, and Smith, or else he would have to
stop payment. He did not think Smith, Patient, and Smith
owed him more than 100,0001., if as much es that, when
Payne and Clark stopped. He was misled by the amount of
credit given to Payne and Clark who ought not to have had
it to such • large amount. They (Smith and Patient) now
owed him not quite 200,0001. Mr. Herbert Smith waa
large debtor ; he was always notified with his imeme.nce that
they should not lose one shilling by him. He never heard
what Mr. Herbert Smith lost by Payne and Clark. He be-
lieved it was 20,0001. or 30,0001. liabilities on bills discounted
by Payne and Click. He believed he was insolvent except
for his mine, on which they agreed to advance him 16,0001.
until he we in • position to repay them and take it .
He did not think they would ever lose one shilling by Mr.
Herbert Smith. At the funeral of his father, in March,
told M. Laurence, who was there, "Your
husband shall sever lose one shilling by me." He expected
they would lose • portion of the debt of Smith, Patient,
and Smith, but in March or April last he did not expect to
lose 100,0001. by them. He thought that 30,0001. or
40,0001. would be the maximum. Mr. Smith's share under
his father's will was 18,0001. He did not believe they
would lose anything by him, taking into account the mine,
which was always pat forward as an meet of very consider-
able importance. Messrs. Ryder and Co. were debtors to
them to a very large amount. He was their foreign corre-
sponding clerk, at • salary of about 1001. • year, when he
left their house to go to Park. They advanced him 1,0001.,
taking as security • policy of menrance. He was ia-
debted to them in 43,0001. Mr. Ryder we in
the habit of sending large quantities of goods to
the United States, and to enable him to get goods on the
best terms they permitted him to draw on them, he re-
imbursing them when his remittances arrived from America,
and making consignments of leather. They never had rea-
son to suspect his solvency. They considered him • "safe"
man se Menem Rothschild, had introduced him to several
large American homes. Mr. Gibson was also • debtor.
They had no reason to doubt his solvency. Mr. Schrader,
of Glasgow, was a debtor. He had formerly been in the
employment of Messrs. Herbert Smith and Co. He did
not believe they ever drew on him except for value. He
believed the statement that he was • debtor for 1,2221. to
be incorrect. They held goods to the amount of 1,2481.
Mr. Waring was a debtor for 58,0001. They bad no reason
to doubt his solvency. Mr. Hacker was a debtor, and they
were liable for him f0r44,0001. Up to Um time of theirfailue,
they believed him to be • solvent man. He had some
heard that be entered into large speculations in leather in
1857. Mr. Clerk was also Indebted to them 57,000(. They
always believed them (Clark and Co.) to be solvent up to
the time of the brothel's death. After that they sent him
bills which he did not like the look of, and on hie remon-
strating with the foreman of Clark, he said "They were
capitalhills." (A laugh.) They were liable on bills drawn
by them (Steestfeild sod Co.). Mersin Draper and Co. were
debtors, and they were liable for them on bills to the
amount of 52,0001. They did not believe that Drapers
were insolvent up to the day that they stopped. They bed
half the bilk in their possession, but Drapers owed them
the money. After Drapers failure they retired bills to the
amount of 25,0001., and Drapers were indebted to them in
that amount. The Beek of England required bill. to be
taken up immediately, and
_they took u_p bills to that
amount from the Bank of England bear* Drapinos name.
The examination of Mr. Laurence was continued. They
had in no one instance charged • commission on the renewal
of the bills of Smith, Patient, and Smith since the let of
January, 1859. He had heard it before, and there was
never a greater falsehood told in the City of London. The
interest on Herbert Smith's bills shim that date wee
3,7361. 16e. Bd. The interest on the account of Smith and
Patient was 7,3061. The interest was only at the rate of 5
per cent.

Mr. Linklater—Did you at any time before the 30th of
June believe the firm of Streatfeildiuid CO. to be insolvent?
Bankrupt—l had not the lent doubt of our solvency.
He believed they had a large surplua. They deposited the
title deeds of the Trotworth estate for the tint time
during the panic of 1857. Their discount account was then
120,0001, and the Bank offered to discount to the amount
of 190,0001. upoc the deposit of deeds to 60,000/. They let
the bill run down to a moderate amount, and had
their deeds down. In April, 1859, they again deposited
those deeds on obtaining discount to the arecantalloo,oool.
with the Bank. Messrs. Overend, Gurnei4..and Co. held
sq deed, of the Jeffery-square property obtained an
advance of 20,0001. upon than three days be 7 ore they sus-
pended payment, but when they bad no idea of stopping.
About the month of May they had en advance of the City
Bask of 10,0001. Instead of discounting bill they had a
loan fog a fortnight., which was renewed afterwards. It
was the same sort of loan as they had periodically from the
Bank of England on four menthe bills. It we, at the latter
end of May or the b4nuieg of June they had the loan.
On reference to his hooka, he found on the 21st of May they
had 5,0001., and on the 28th, 5,0001. It was for a fort-
night, and it was renewed for another fortnight. He was
not pressed by the City Bank at any time. Of the 20,0001.
advanced by Overend, Gurney, and Co., the greater part
was paid into the bankers. Herbert Smith had 2,0001. cm
the 28th of June. He could not say he gave it him to me-
vent his stopping, but to provide for his bills. His object
in giving it to him wee to prevent his stopping.
By Mr. Lawrence—Their house bad been arteidished 54
DrMr. Streatfeild and his father wife the founder's.
ha d been a partner and clerk for 40 years. Mr. Morti-
more had been a partner for 34 years. Before their stop-
page they never failed in money matters; they were always
overdone with money. They had an mita:sive credit. He
married one of the daughters of Mr. Smith, sere., and she
would be entitled to abate in his property. Mr. James
Herbert Smith was one of his sons. 'The two Smiths of the
Arm of Smith, Patient, and Smith, were also Nona The
details of the interest accounts were to be found in the books.
The whole of the matters upon which he had boss sucatabiod
to-day had been investigated by the amdgases. Noting
surprised him more than the failure of Drams. He
was astonaded to hear that they Were indebted to
their bankers 40,0001. Notwithstanding them Weed.
vantages they offered their creditors 15e., subsisquently
reduced to 13e. Gd., in the pound. They bad
bad destiny with them for 20 years. Payne and Clark
were not customers of his ; they were of Smith and Patient,
and of Herbert Smith more particularly. Ryder, be
believed, carried ou a large and legitimate business All
their transactions were entered in their books, which were
open for inspection at all timer. Their commission ao-
coast for ten year. amasatad to 410,0001. Mr. Mortimer"
bad sioaakkesble freehold prc.perty and other seenritasa
sillisocroperty consisted of the hone* he built and railway
By Mr. Lbildater—A vary small portion of the commis-
'ions was oni dealings with the
Trersons "pop whose im°
countr he had been examined. might goodsto
them,' but the comminute° woaldl paid by thy perscas
who sent the goads.
Mr. Linkiter said that the evidence of Kr. Lomas
had considerably displaced the information white bed been
given to him. Mr. Laurence had had an opportuMty of
disproving many rumours which were abroad. He did not,
therefore, propose to offer say farther opposition to the
bankrupts pianos their examination.
Mr. Lawrence wished to make a few observations toclear
Mr. lwallien of any hesitation which he might seem to
have exhibited when he Ant began answering the guar
tions.
The Commissioner—l do not think it Is nsosssary to
trouble you, Mr. Lawrance. The blokes,* has fully ex-
plained the items of capital, profits, and hed debts to which
objectiso was taken. With reference to the mum is
which the <members were answined, it meal be bass Ia
mind that the beet man of basins= IN ant always the best
witness.
Mr. Lammas --Not nice in one proteinbs.
The Commissioner—Taking the whole of tho 111111111/111.
MOD, I do sot think that there is any whine* that Mr.
Laurence hiteaded to conceal sotthing. beill I think he sr
their desired to tell the while tru
The bankrupt then pursed, and the certiAcate meeting
wee !red for the 28th of November next.
. _

. —..
Dale to tar amount d 175,0001. were proved is the
ISIS of Na ity.