The Express.
London, England, 1860-03-02 00:00:00

as he &Webb be Mee the grain of told dlsfreachisto
meat without we amt to somewhat like the length we
proposed to de be NW. Tbe principle of total dia.
• reed le me of very grave importance, and ought
not to be eilleplei Warr some greet polio berth accruing.
I cannot think, tbleserts, that the abolition of some sit or
nein bormigha, raving eight or ten of • similar character
immediately &boot them, rail be • wise or expedient mea-
sure. it would create greet discontent amongst those who
were disfranchised, when they rtul be able to point to
other boroughs lyiag everywhere ..boat them, of precisely
the same character and nearly the same number as their
cwt. It is • much milder poopsition to say that at the
boram of the scale Mae sea • certain number of boroughs
which may be represented, bat which are now ova-
! weighted in representation, and some of these sesta
oho old be given to other places, and to larger
cutorconcies. We therefore propose that the boroughs, the
names of which I shall raid—(e langh)—should no
looser Bend two members each to parliament. They are,
Humor, Thetford, Harlots, Errant, Tomes, Wells,
Richmond, Marltx.sougb, Leoulaster, Lymlngton, Tewkes-
bury. Andover, Mallon, Kuaratebootagh, Ludlow—solar oar
plan agrees with that of the right hem gent/masa het year
but we go farther and add Ripon, Clammier, Marlow, Mp-
penliatn, Bodmic. Dorchester, Eluntlagdoa,Devism, Hartilad
sad Guildford. That will make 26 seer whirl will brie
be c:ieposed of. by parliament, end wouaupe a thatohs Yrr-
ing 'aunties should return members. The-West
Riding of Totality two ai al Serb Leasseidsa
re, sad all those which follow meatYNlaaal mostker sash :
North Laacasture, Middirea, Wei Kant, South Door,
South Staffordslure, North Y ortaldrs, Lincoln. the therm
of Lindsay, South Ear, Bast Somerset, Welt Norfolk,
West Coeswell, and North Feem,(Sliser, her.)
_Them ant
Mao 15 seats—including the West M ing of Yorkshire, which
we do not propose to divide, teeing& it has been for rime
time poet, and it bee Wen felt that there agreed reptipasta,
which has been loudly shrewd, in that great riding to any
such division tries place—(Mar, hear) —tbcre are thus 15
seal., iscluding Ytaltire and Lancashire, given to cornett
—avert of those counties being of a marracturiag. while
other, are of ea agricultural chancre. We then propose,
with regard to the boroughs, that Keriagtos sad Chelsea
shall form oseke=lit wed return two mestere, aad that
in tutors Bit fitelegbrid^ and Burnley should
return tone member each. And we farther propose that Man-
char, Liverpool, Birmilegham, and Leeds. should each rat
tart three cumbers Mooed of two. With regard to
this question of giving a third member to places
where the cosetitueocy is more than ordinenly large, the
home will mambo that on • former occasion I madam pro-
posal which was cot very pslateable to the hones. sad ter-
sea/ VIA not very popular in the country—(. Her, bear,"
and langhtet) —that mere rout! be • certain division of
votei, and that in those paces which ranter three mem-
ber the elector &mild have only two veto —thris affording,
in wine respects, • represeatation of Sae minority. As that
proporioa was very unfavourably nerved—though I thick
is very fair oas—l do not propose any such division of
votes I. the preside bill. (Howl Bet it appears bate, se
fat as I can Mars, that there is • Orefery when Mere are
three mamters—there Wes two parties in the osastitamey,
the one Ming the stronger but the other inclodiq • very
oorderable number of rectors—that then to • fag—tand
tt is • laeling:of Mimes and j tree—that the weaker bat yet
coasiderable party, should not be &Imolai exdatied from
the repo entation, but that the third member should he
given to that minority. I know that preciosity that did
sot take place in what we calkd the tree counties, and in
those, when upia the great question of Ira trade and pro-
rates the Wiles was strong, the throe members were
Serially or. the one aide—the wawa velure; bat looking at •
third char of counties I fad • list of err counties, Is
Oro of which there are two member. of the or party
sad one of the other. I own that 1 Mita still it would be
a Mark if there wee a disposition :rot to exclude • very
somas minority, but to allow them by wane of the third
samba to hove their views represented. I ktiow it Is ob-
jected that the menthe, ea the or ed. neutralises the vote
of the member who is os the other. That is partly ha., tat
sot eltegabsr ea ; foe la sway hamar' what the question a
Mot dime* ern of party, all the three menthere, though be-
heirs to Midwest pestles, an frequently lord :1:=
legator. (Her.) I think it is desirrthen ie that we
these
member to ammonium great totems, sad that we
also give three arab= to ems of the larger ran-
UN. I Wier I Isar stated what la the nature
dear mope.' with regard to the towns; but soother pro-
perties or the bill le, to give or member to a learned body
which contains • sort of ropreantation wiion itself, bat
whickwes en lt4ed wader the former Reform Bill—l mesa
the London Unttersity. (Hear, hear) As I have said, we
wish to mar the measure en simple r possible. We do not
proper is chanties the 101. to • W. fraschist to alter soy of
the existing condition, except or, namely, that whim makes
it smeary to pay the senser tree. It sprees to us that
if the hoorholder psys the poor rotes It te safilotent, and
that it would be a ream restriction to make him pay the
wrier tax in addition, en a coaddion of the right to vote.
Tb• hurts will or that, suer In the tees of the 25 seats
I have ansinerstad, 111 that we do proper is in the Ivey of
asfrasohisearest, sad eskseehiseiness with as trimmery r
rootlike. (Hear, her.) We rather wish—seeing the °Nac-
hos& that have bees made sad the friars that have occurred
in regard to rears mssawros el ref one—we wish to cam
Sae the strentioa of parliamer se those quortioso of the
rarities and sorb creme as are absolutely re.
qtured in a number of photo where as alteration
is the representation is in justices secessary, rather
than to eadri our to alter thing. which, however
objectionare they may be wasieered s some quarters, do
severterese brass to our ancient castor and oar roast
forma. And, sir, I fed that in so doter w• ere taking the
&rat oad the beet I.Atm ; at ad erste, we shall Mr
amble pa:lamer to decide upon those question by them-
selves, without oar minds being disturbed or or time being
takes op by dianseiose upon ore aware of reflasment or
novelty. (Her.) For my own part, I must s that,
although I bar sot bees easemelal se regetch two
maseoree which I had the boort to introduce
ea this @abject, I sin in us way dirouraged.
For tea years I laboured hard to atria the amt of parlia-
ment te megeree of Mons 1,00,9 1 introduced the bill et
11331, but the many failures which l had reentered did not
prevent the wooer of the bill of 1832, and 1 am sure if hos.
mesubera will apply their minds to this measure, and look
upon it as • uteseare--at all events—twinging • considerable
portion of she working chimes victim the paled our repro
systole* system, and extending to thamtarilegge of which
they are worthy by their trawled(' sad acquirmassia.
the femalations M the certitudes will be arempramle and
we shall hessafter rejoice at brag pater suck • MIL
(Chests.)
la rawer to • question from Mr. Do s
Lad J. RUSSELL said he proposed to take the ant
✓ags of the bill M about • fortnight.
Mr. BRIGHT impired whether the fear toast Beaks
were included on the list which the noble lord had mad f
Lord J. kt USI3ELL—We have dip eel of all the seals Is
which we proper to make soy change. With to
M r four mats, es they do sot sew balm to s t,
ise have %hover it fair that Scotland andl shout
bar lie tar& of theta. bees.)
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY gave hie ardial sort to that
portion of the hill which sefreschised the great towns, bat
weired to knew upon what principle It wee that the held*
lord seized spat the rights end privileges of 25 other torte ?
Mr.BYNOssid, that ea the representative of &county white
is point of proration and the rateable true it property was
one of ohs larger, he could not resits thanking toe noble lord
for wirer Chelsea sad Kaasingtun seats in that house.
Mr. YANSIT TART wished to know whether the govern.
meat hod it In seatempletion to make say alterriou is the
putt reatery rata of the present borome ha.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that with 11,0polut 10 tie boundaries
of boroughs, tt war an important question, and required some
consideratioa. It had not bees thought dateable by the
government to introduce say provision on the sublet la their
bill.

Mr. WALPOLE bed understood the noble lord to ray
this the return,' under which be had moommended the am-
her of isembrre to he added to the boroughs, would be laid
apes the bible that evening or to-morrow. He wished to
know whether this was the me. The motile lord had also stated
that there would be • psy mat amts. for the new gashac AUL&
of boroughs se there wee now. He wished to be thfortned
whether that payment of rates was to be made by the tenant,
or whmber it ought be Bade by soy other person on Ms
behalf. He b. Revel the home was itenerelly of °phew that
It would be very drsireb'e to postpone for the present any
diecueei non the prom...then now laid before thew. The
ally oterevetion he would wish to add was, that the tare
ettatioe be had igiven the subject the more fully be was
cenvisced that the diethisloa between the eoeuttlis sad
benumbs ought to be ntmtained. and he believed that the
sable lord would fled that It ought to be montairoid to a
gtea er rz,sot than had been provided by the bill.
Mr. AYILTON desired to c tenet what he thought some.
what erromme views of the past history of reform, front the
period of time hitroduotiost of the measure which the snh'e
lord bed (Drawly submitted to the house. At the time
when the first Reform Bill was brought under
the notice of Farhat:met • franchise of 101. was
a real line of demarcation between the working
dame aid those who were considered the clues'
above thew. • few yens after the sueseare bad bees pissed,
the warktsg wen of Engleed considered they bed bean
op y excluded from mertioipmen Ia the remora
Wks of the people. Now, the noble lord Lad laid before
the hoses • 11111116/01 which wee to estrenchise some 100,000
pe .pis is the borough* and bowie of the constry, bat be had
eta staled that the %ark*/ 0101111111 In gement paid a not of
al lout 75. The hones know full well that Ihe gegslediesi
the towns might be astetated at Ant 2,001 a(
iaticitanic Wm it pessible to suppose, that wrali=
• popultitios a. this, If the measure would ri
the respectable working en no fants. swook
ties 110,000
wield he egged to the register P He behind the selsas it
the digloalty was this, that • greet awherel werlds nes
°erupted nut an entire home but spiel ef• home. He had
'spaded, therefore, that the noble lard woad have told them
what ware bra view, with respect to those who occupied
only • part of • bobo within the limits of • borngh.
Major EDWARDS Mabel to know whether, to the event
of its bill beceedm law, it would nemeatate as immediate
(liseOter.)
Mr. W. WILLLUIS thought the propoeition of the whip
hid ir the daraddrat of the repeemetatinn at the people
woad sous pug dfitosallest ihrospbcat the country in the
mind of eery fiellyWhe bed hewn to are that representation
at .11 no WM wee aspeuelly detour with re-
gard te thee espeesesesek• of tits inetropolitsa bytwaglbs.
asaghww.)
Kr J. 001IhirT melemenes ehmeratioas, but was totalty
bewedibie in eassequesse al the mdse which prevailed Is tee
Mr.hews
111WDZO•TE chill the *Ms lord had omitted to

r state what addition would be made to the county constitueo-
dee by the measure which he bad proposed. He had in-
timated that the county representation would be increased by
a certain number of members, and that information was
to order to complete his statement.
• Lard CECIL inquired whether, as in the old Reform
• Bill, there was anything In the present 'nesisurs respecting
' PaletPlathe•
u. GREY said there was no provision in the bill re-
thepectin( polling plow Rie did mot think his hon. friend
•mambo for Paseraliold (Slr W. JollIffs) did not under-
. , stand the 101. county franchise. When the occupation oon-
; Meted jointly of land sad buildings, the noble lord said
that the qualification for counties would be of the mane cha-
rs:tar as that for boroughs, via., • house or building, held
separately or jointly with land. If the building were a
dwelling-house no qmastion of value would be raised, but
If it were not, and were some building other
than a dwelling-house, then it was provided that
the building should be of a value equal to half of the qualiti-
cation. Taking the qualifionion as extended from 104. to 501.,
it would be required that where the building was not •
dwalliag-hours it should be of the doer yearly value of 61.
That proposition, he need not say, was intended to prevent
a few boards being run up to meet the requirements of the
act in order to create Beddow votes; but in the case
of a dwelliag-boon no such provision would be ,
required. In reply to the hon. member for Warwickshire !
(Mr. Newdegate) he had to state that they could not give ;
the woe accurate information as to the increase of votes in
counties nader the bill so the noble lord had done with co-
sot to boroughs, and the difficulty mass principally from
the cirawastaaos to which ha bad just niforna. They had ;
obtained accurate information with regard to the number of
occupiers of a curtain amount of maid to borougha, ant
they could do the same In respect of counties, tut
it was not to show the number of persona hold.
lug etweiettions between 101. and 601. in counties. Though
that would show the maximum number to be added under ;
say circumstance*, it would not show the deduction—and it
Maki probably be a large one—which would have to be 1
mode ea regarded those qoalitleations where the occupation
asamistod partly of land and bulldog. sad where the
was to be of a certain value. 'I he rata books did not
supply that particular information. Returns already on the
table showed the number of persons occupying oder the
different clessms, and farther information would be laid
before the bones on the subject. (Bear.)
Mr. T. BUNCOMBE having had the honour of a seat in
the pediment which wooed the Reform 8111, and having
heard the noble lord propose that bill to that parliament, ha
could sot help contostiog tho gallant spirit in which he pro-
posed it with the very subdued tone which he had
prop red the present, which was called en Improvement
of the representation. (Laughter from the opposition.)
There were ens or two great blemishes in the bill—one was
the want of a more frequent registration. The viable toed
said the payment of poor rates would still be • condition of
registration; it ought to be no condition at all. The nods
lord used to say it was an nooonstitational tyranny that say
man should be taxed without being represented; but here
every men was to be made to pay taws before he could gat
his name on the register, and it sometimes took • poor man
two peers to got his name on. Ws ought to have registers
opened at least one a quanta—(" how, hear," from Mr.
bright)—that would be a very important and salutary
change. As for the redlstribution of oats, this bill gave
sothiag like &reform in that reepeot. Another blemish in
this bill was Its not giving a lodger franchise. There woo
mechanic*, well-educated men, paying 121. or 1.1. a yoar for
their lodging', who were at present disfranchised. I. Lon-
don, a house at a 81, rental could not be got; but only houses
at from 121. to 201. or 301. a year rout, aim occupied by
lodgers who ought to have the franchise. It theee metiers
wore not to be provided for, the bill would do notbilter, and
there would be agitation for reform year after year. Whether
adopted or rejected by parliament, the bill would be a matter
of indifference to the great body of the people.
Mr. BLANEY said that be voted for every clause of the
Reform Bill of 1831 when it wee passed, end he also
voted for giving representation to Birmingham end Man-
; end now be thought this bill would be bailed by all
thinking rople in England as • very groat advantage to a
amnsvms ekes. He believed Met the U. franohise would
admit to palled power great numbers of industrious people
whose madam end position made them worthy of it. The bill
appeased to him • practical coassurn and he hoped It
would obtain general support in the how* and in the country.
Mr. }ERIC/UTLEY maid the noble lord to say what was
the maximum anon, adaptors that would be added to the
couaty constituencies by the 101. franchise f

Lord J. RUSSELL—With regard to the question that
has been asked mo by the right hoe. gentleman the member
for the University of Oambridge, we do sot propose any
alteration whatever with regard to poor's rates; temente will
be obliged to pay the poor's rates as at presset, and will ham
the same facilities of Wog put on the rates, la the rare wey
r under the present law. As to the question which has
been asked by the boaourable gentleman who last spolos
sad by others, I should not have been justified ill
say number as that which would be the number of
the 101. voters in counties. Here is • rotors, but it is only
of those rated between 101. and 601. a year, who are in
England 361,003, and ia Ragland and Wales 416,000; but 1
do sot beldam that is any war at all, for it comprehends not
only those who will be the 10/. voters but a number of other
people; in fact, we cannot She any accurate estimate. An
nom gentlemen has asked whether it would be necessary te
have • diaeolutien. What the bill proposes is, that at the
November registration the claims should be made order this
measure, and, when the November registration le completed,
It would be competent to the government to dissolve for •
general election under this bill.
Mr. BRUIN f had asked the noble lord a question, to
which he should be glad to ham a reply. He understood the
noble lord to my that the Compound liouasholders Act, In
which there wee • clause, goosed • few years ago, giving the
right of voting to tenanta whose landlords paid their rates.
would not be epplicable to the new freachlee under this bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL said there would be no alteration he
Mr.":lltHT remarked dist is the municipal elootions
the Masai had the PM when the Isadlord paid the rate.
He had understood the noble lord to my that with regsrd to
the perlienentary eternises the bill media a change la that.
He hoped it was mot so, for that would falsify the whole
promise of this bill to the working dense.
Mr. ROEBUCK wished to ask • question on what was
rather • personal matter. The noble lord had read out a list
of certain great towns to which he would give teak an addi-
limit member, sod moss them was Leeds. He would cell
the noble lord's mirth's to the maimion be had made is
Irving oat Sheffield. (A laugh). It would be found that
Sheffield bad a greater oonstitutuoy has Leeds.
Mr. CONINOHAM would not now eater lato Uto details
of the bill, but he could mot view wittiest alarm one of Its
cltaracterietios, white seemed to be the transferees* of borough
members to the °mattes. He doubted whether the Bbrnl
party had anything to gala by each • transfer. Looking at
the enormous expelse of a county election, and the dame of
penises rammed from counties, be doubted whether the re-
proestation thsr would result would be lucre In coneonante
with the feelings of the liberal side of the house this at
Lt.
m was then given to bring in the bill, the names of
Lord John Buseell, Lord Palmerston, Sir G. C. Lewis, and
Ste 0. Grey bring announced in coanexios with It.

THE REFORM BILL FOR IRELAND.
Mr. CARDWELL UM' moved to bring la a similar bill
for 'related, Welly explaining its leading features. It re-
duced, be amid, the qualification for voting for counties from
121. (roptlred by the act of 1860) to IW., and subedtuted •
borough franchise of 61. for 81., and It proposed to give to
the county of Cork sad the city of Dublin three members
each instead of two, supplying the additional members from
the four sesta io England suspended aad aaappropriamd.
He hoped, he observed, that • day might owes whoa parlia-
ment would think it right to give • uweaber to the Qiissa's
Usiversity; but, looking at the cironmetastoss of the mini,
city, he did mot thick it right to maks such • prepare' ye.
The ball proposed likewise to remove the disqualiSeition of
men of 'Wend to represent Irish emetitneeriss.
Alter a few words from Mr. WHITESIDE, regretting
theAproposel change is the trambise,
Mr. COGAN mid he viewed with great jealousy the
proposition with regard to Irish pears, sad their being
allowed to be reprewartatives of Irish omiatituescies. The
fresissa fru:whim had had • moat in effect on
Ireland.

Mr. VANCE emphstlosily dialed this assertion.
Mr. Y. BCULLY returned Umiak' for the additional
member that would b 4 gives to the ouututy of Cork. He
proteetalegaiast leaking the payment of rates a canditkat
of tae trenchers.

Mr. &millet& Colossi Oreville, Mr. Yawn, Mr.
liageire, Colonel Dickson, and other Irish nassibus, ob-
jected to the provietoe relating to Ir.& peels.
Lord R. CECIL objected to two English Mk being given
to Ireland, and wished to know the moos why.
Sir O. C. LEWIS explained that by the am of anion soy
Irish pm. sitting for an Beglish or Scotch constituency was
deprived of all the privilege. of the peerage; ant the pro-
pond provision only removed the disqttalincstlon to net for
an Irish onsetituaecy.
Mr. CARDWELL, in maws in answer to Sir W. Somer-
ville, said that the alterstioe of the franchise in Ireland wee on
the eine banes se bed hitherto existed. The freemen in
Ireland were to he welmilated to those in England. The
1.111012 why Cork meaty mad Dublin city WON to hays ad-
ditional meatbwe was on amount of the extent of their popu-
lation. The propoeidos with regard to lAA pews was So
get rid of sa misting anomaly
Leave was gives to bring in the bill.
THE SCOTCH REFORM BILL.

Tha LORD ADVOCATE a;nlnTrocinoTar. the Reform
Bill for Scotland. He stated in the tint plays that of the
two Ranh& meta now rafter, one was to be
given to 01 w, sad the other to the four
universities of Bcotlaad. There would be an coca_
=franchise of 101. ha the y.uatier, and 61. in
glte. It was proposed to rooks the valuation toile the
basis of the franchise, sad to enfranchise °wows, or testate,
or occupiers, as the teas might be, which would romplity the
system of tvgietratioe, and would reader nutroweary the
registration cr.urt. With regard to the property franchise is
counties which bad Idtberta rued Y IW.. it was proposed to
rause that property franchise to St. which with dednYiong,
weals briar it sometitiag sear the 40a. towable* in Rag-
land ; the trenches, however, it was not litured•d to Intro-
duce fib boroughs. Te prevent the wienufecturd of actittoos
votes it we. prop sad that eh* coodition of rseideaos should
be attacked to the property frasettles below 101.
Mr. BAXTER ratised amuses so few seditinesi maw
bare Wisp gnus is bailed, aid said that be should tokens
opportunity of =NM ill the didranobintreent ot time
Radish wintiteencies, sad giving the sesia to Boatload.

THE EXPRM FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 2, 1860.

After some diminution, in which the Borsch members took
the principal part, all of them pressing for more seats ban
oatigned to Scotland,
Leave wee given to bring in the bill.
THE SERPENTINE.
Oa the motion for the appointment of the alma tiommithie
to inquire two the best mod* of cleansing the &rewrote',
objeetion was token to the manor of Sir J. Shelley sad Lewd
Penury, mad 'divan= was
fl:rthea the numbers were,
for retaining the names, 122* it, 36; majority, 86.
The Reform mu for Eag was brought up, and the
mead reading died for the 19th fast.
THE CIISTONB ACTS.
The hones then, la commutes upon the Customs Acta,
resumed the considered*a of the third resolution, repealing
the dillies on oertala
The flier article robed a disonselon upon the whole policy
of the treaty.
Sir J.PAEINGTON denounced thaws remissions of duty u
a wanton waste of our resources and,regaidEemo from too
paint of view of English interests and politica, he
eatreated the home to pause before it mac cache lon
of revenue.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER reminded
the committee that three rep:onions were for the benefit of
C: 011•11M417, and that to maintain the duties for the prottotion
of certain interest,. at hum, was to make them differential
duties.

O¢ the artiele menufacturea,"
Si, J. PAYTON interpreted the complete!' of hie con-
iiitoents, the ailkweavers of Coventry, who urged that this
duty wee not a burdensome one; that it was charged upon a
luxury ; that, in the bargain with France, no compensation
was cffered to them for a arestsecriffes, France n it admitting
our silk goods on the MALII4I terms; sad that they would be
utiable to sustain the sinak. He moved a resolution, that it
was =expedient to reduce these duiles unless our silk mann-
fat area were admitted into France on equal term' ; Lat the
resolution was inadmissible in poll= of form.
He WWI followed by Mr. NEWDBOATE, who, in a long
derdananion, tbre..tened to tell the weavers of Coventry that
they were to be offered up as a holocaust to foreign political

Th 4 were replied to by Mr. BRIGHT, who earmaticelly
remarked that protection not only enfeebled the arts of the
manufacturer, but minds and powers.
Mr. AYRTON disputed Mr. Brig e tree-trade theory as
applied to the silk trade, the peculiar nature of whi k he
strongly Maimed upon, and altar denouncing the Manchester
school, Inveighed sesilat the malty of consigning to misery
the classes who tabling upon our silk manufacture, which
was charged with a prohibitory duty in Femme.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
before the committee came to a division he was desirous of
offering a few words on one or two ponds of importance. It
had been stated that this vote was recomemoded to the com-
mittee under the pressure of two governments, and on ac-
count of political eagsgeroenta. He wished to state in the
must explicit manner that this was the reverse of true. The
proposition waa needs on its we merits, es one in harmony
with our general heisted 's', and highly bansecial on its own
grounds. (Hear, hear.) The has. amber for Coventry
must have listened with astonishment to the soft of support
he had received. His meson was most moderate in its terms,
and it would have been impassible to enforce it In terms of
greater moderation than his hon. friend had done • but
Ms hon. friend should recollect that however desirable it
might be to get our silk goods admitted into France, it could
sot bare been made matter of stipulation. Neither was the
duty on our ribbons excessive, being only 3s. the pound, or
7 per cant., whilst we °barged 18 per cent. sad upward+ on
French goods. The hos. member' fir North Warwickshire
and the Tower Hamlets had carried their to back
one or two generations, aad would extinguish all that had
been dem in the direct on of free trade during the last
twenty years. The member for the Tower Hamlets might
be and to be • protectionist and empathise more, for he ad-
mired the establishment of state werebouses to provide raw
material for the fabrics of Lycne. He had thought that the
hon. member for North Warwickshire bad gone far
enough, but the member for the Tower Hamlets beet
him all to pieces. (Cheers.) He (Mr. Gladstone)
woofer* that if the mind of the boa. member for North
Warwickshire was capable of admitting smitimseta of morti-
fication, he meat be deeply grieved et being so distanced in
the prohibitory race. (Chews.) The hon. member for the
Tower Helpless revived all the—he would not say Mang—
iest all the vocabulary which need to be hurled at Mr. Roe.
Mame. The hon. aerober talked of the beertlesenws of the
doctrines of free trade. Why that was the exact accusation
that was used against Mr. Huthissor, when
that statesman was accused of haring the de-
vil in his brains. (Laughter.) The honourable
member drew a pitiful picture of the sun of the men whose
labour was displaced, but he forgot to Inquire whether any
labour had been displaced; in short he spoke of the silk trade
Ise if it had always been • Paradise. The hon. member
seemed to forget that the milk trade douriehed long before
protection In the 17th century, and It was only subsequently
that it became protected. In 1697 it began to droop and de-
cline, and the weevers anodic, legislation, tad was there no !
suffering then ? Had the hos. member no communion for the
evils which his favourite system produced in 1786, when the '
weavers went down in a body to parliament, and, proclaim-
ing their wretched condition, prayed for the total prohibition
of foreign goods. In 1788, 7,000 looms were declared to be
idle, and foreign silks were totally prohibited; and In 1789,
when everything ought to have bees imehmshomst,
the yearns combined for higher wages, and sots
of violence and riots were raised, in which
several soldier@ as well as weevers were killed.
In 1773—which wee about the climax of this enlightened
legislation,there was slaw passed forbidding masters to give,
or men to ake, more then that allowed by way of wages. It
also forbade a master from employing more than two ap-
prentices. That continued until 1824. But protection went
still further—in 1794 further duties were laid on, and all re-
duction wee excluded from the treety by the negotiations of
1798, and what was the result? Why that 7,003 Spica-
ands looms went out of employ—(cheers)--and after the
war the suffering in the same district wee so
great, that two-thirds of the flpitalllelds weavers
were oat of employment. That was the result which proved
what the theories of the hon. member were la practice. After
that came a change, and the anthers al that change were
emoted of the heartlessness with which the hon. member
would now adernathe the majority—aye, the vast majority of
the present house. (Cheers.) Had there been 7,000 flpital-
fields looms out of employ ? Had there been 4,090 ? Had
there been riots where the weavers had broken out, and
! soldiers had been called le, to maintain the " blessed" system
of trade reguletion which the ben. member advocated ?
(Cheers.) In 1820 the import of raw silk amounted to
12,000,0001 in 1859 it amounted to 9,900,0001. la 1820 the
export of seek manufactured goods was 371,0001.; in 1859 it
reached 2,500,0601. And then the boo. member came
down to that house with the word " feet" and the word
experience," with the words " prudence" and " wisdom,"
end attributed the chaste not to error but to the hamlets-
sees, forsooth, of Its members. (Prolonged abeam) This
question had certainly been "read upon the broaden'
grounds• the hon. member rid he hoped the committee
nautili:Pm to the discussion with patience, mid he (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) was glad the somminse had
Ifetesed to it with pealence, foe be declared is his heart be
believed it to be the Mad discuados which they would bear
epos the subject ; end he *Meld bs sorry had they lost the op-
portunity—when their differential duties were about to (heap-
peer from the tariff—which they had enjoyed te-night, of listen-
hag to the practical Inseam which they had beret. This
was not a smell nor en insignificent vote. (Ironical abdomens
cheery.) A large messure was involved in it. If the cool
mlttee thought It was bed upon its merits, let them reject
it; but if they rejected it they would reveres an the principle'
they bed laid down for the het 20 years—Wes of No,"
and chrers)—by the medium of which, instead of bringing
, the working dames of the country to poverty and distrese,
they had twill them to isiseares their self-remect, end had
enhanced their vales se loyal subjects of the Cue's. (Cheers.)
sir J. PAK INGTON said that the present discussion bed
turned very mach upon protection. lie was maxims to say
that the vote be was about to give would not tern apes
soy question of protection. Nor would it depend upon the
line a argument which had been adopted by the hon.
member fur Coventry, or by the hon, member for the Tower
Hamlets. These two gentlemen had given their votes in
support of the budget, but when the measure was found
to be saainat their own oonstituancise—(cheer, from the
int:detailed side)—they came forward to raise their voices
against it, at • time Than they toned they bad put it out of
their pilfer to do them any service. He thought there were
ample objections to the proposal before the house on quite
adverse grounds to those taken up by the honourable
members. _ _ _

BALL said that this question wag eo important to
the inhabitant. of Spitalfielde and Bethaal-green, that If the
committee had any bowels of comperes—(i laugh)—they
must pars before they arre,d in the vote proposed by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. H. (Mr. Ball) had listened
to the debate till he was fatigued and bad fallen asleep—
(a laugh)—aad when be recovered from hi. repose he found
one-hall of the boa. gentlemen on the Treasury Bench asleep
also; and be thought it was *bedew folly to go into
the 000sidastioa of so important a question at that hour.
He moved that the chairman report program and ask leave
to eft again. He was the mote disposed to insist on this ag
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated it wee the lest
time the subject would be discussed, rid if it was the lest,
for God's sake let them linger upoott • little longer. (Load
laughter, and arise of Divide.")
Lord PALIIBRBTON hoped, se the hon. gentleman hid
waterbed himamil with a good itlesp—(a laugh)—and was,
therefore, able to go on with the dims sloe, that he would do
so li he wished to add anything b.yoall what he had acid, and
that the house would come to • dsdafra oa the question be-
fore they adjourned. (Divide, divide.)
The hoer then divided ea the moduli for reporting pre
per
The numbers were—
For the sodas
Against ft 283-205
The committee divided on the motion of Bit J. PAX_
Tor. The amebas ware—
For Sir J. Paxtocee amendment
Arias% l9O-122
. . . .

Mr. AYHTON wilted kw an explanation also of theTsat
paragraph of the resohdlow, Mike related to tone good. set
enumerated. He inked whether Ude facilnded lambus
node of wood which, ea he believed. paid a day. The Reg.
lid manufacturer ought not so hese to compote with &reign-
wade furniture whiles Me Imports of Is materiel which he
%wet were subject to duty.
The CHANCILLOR of the MICR EQUEi
to leak tato the Het to ere obetbee regulars wee
and dire Me how. membee as meat mama; but I.
elute that there wee sodam ow fureltune woods • am the
duty os wood mold be say es a aseabalsele. hip tea.

lotion provided for theorise el articles made of materials liable
to duty.
Mr. AYRTON then moved to report progress, but with-
drew his motion an tte ensurenor of the Exchequer con-
aeons* to cat off from the resolution this paragraph, and to
have it to be taken next day ea • aejarate resolution.
Ths preceding portion of the resolution was then &great°,
and the house mourned.
The Scotland Reform Bill was brought in, sad reed a
first time, the other orders of the day were disposed of, and
the hours adjourned before half.past one.