The Express.
London, England, 1858-03-27 00:00:00

(Stamped Id. Additional.) [T WOPENCE.

persons. ("Rear, hear," and cheers.) We propose that •
moiety of this council shall be nominated by the crown by
warrant under the royal sign manual, and that the other
moiety shall be elective. (Cheers.) I will first speak of
those who in our opinion should be nominated by her Ma-
jesty. Although our plan is that those nine should be thus
appointed, we still are of opinion that each of them should
have a specified qualification—that, in fact each of them
should represent some great interest in India, and they
should be infect, although nominated by the crown, what,
to use &Amputee phrase of the day, are styled representative
men. We would apportion the nisi in this manner. The
civil service of the tour presidencies would be represented •
one member would be a civil servant who had served Wei
years et least in the Upper Provinces, or those
districts immediately under the authority of the Governor-
General. Another member would be • dell servant from the
Lower Provinces of Bengal, who had equally served in that
service for ten years ; there would be mother member
from the civil service of Madre& and one from that o! Bones
key, who would fulfil equally the same qualification of ten
years' service in those presidencies. The fifth Inetnbn7 of
this division would have a specified but rather slow
Heath's. We think of great importance that Fr:cilliisarCoimo
oil of India there shoeM be some one who lad • emend ex-
perience of the courts, characters, and feelings of the native
princes. (Hear, beer.) It appears to rte that one of the
faults of oar administration in India has been a too great din-
regard of the feelings of the native princecs-(bear, !ea.-)
—and too little acqraintance with die cinema •
stewed and character of their people. It seemed to ask
therefore, that one member of this couecil shot
be a man to represent that eminent class with which, hem
even our own experience In parliament, we are familiar. Tim
area fee selection in this case will be more limited. We re-
quire that he shell be a member of the civil service of one of
the three preeideeetes, and have served in it ten year., of
which five have been paned se resident or political agent atr
the court of one of the native princes. Tie men who will
thus obtain a seat in the council will be such as a gentleman
I remember in this house when I first entered parliament,.
Sir Robert Jenkins—men like Colonel Sutherland, or Ge-
neral Lowe, such as he was in his younger end happier days.
I have now detailed to the house the qualifications to be re-
quired from five of these members to be thus nominated.
The other four are to represent—one the military service of
the Queen ; the others the armies of Bengal, Bombay, and,
Madras. We require to have in the council one mambr for'
the Queen's army who shall have Nerved in India five years,
end • member of each of the three armies of Bengal, Bom-
bay, and Madras, who have served in India in those services
at lane ten years. Our object, so far as these nine members
are concerned, is that the Secretary of State may, as far as
partible, oommandlin this council a permed knowledge of
the varied circumstances of those vast regions, so that if •
question be raised connected with the Upper Provinces, those
provinces will be represented by a man who has had long
experience In them; if, on the contrary, a question arises
respecting the south of India, which is a country totally
different, he will find is the council p eentleman of the
highest authority ; or if • question arises as to our
diplomatic conduct towards the native princes, he will
have • man in his council who lies been face
to face with the native princes ; so in every ques-
tion connected with India he will be supplied with the
most varied and extensive knowledge that • minister can re-
quire. But, sir, although we propose in the bill that these
nine members shall be nominated by her Majesty under a
royal warrant, end that whenever a vacancy occurs they
shall be succeeded only by individuals who have the same
epecial and specified qualification, yet it is the intention of
her Majesty's government, if the house support them in this
measure, to introduce into the bill itself the names of the men
to be thus nominated. (Cheers.) So that in the first in-
stance they will have not only a royal but • par-
liamentary sanction, and will enter on their duties
supported not only by the favour of their sovereign,
but by the approval of the representatives of the
people. Sir, I need not, I hope, either to-night, or at any
other time, or under any circumstances, add anything to
prove that in making the selecten of name to which I
shall in the course of these observations have occasion to
allude, her Majesty's government have had no other
motive than with the utmost Paine, under a due sense of
their great responsibility, to select for every post the best
man who could be found, without the slightest reference to
his political opinions, or any of those considerations which too
often influence political selections. We will offer the names
to the house with the assurance that in the selection we
have taken every pains to obtain for the public service the
best talent and the moat influential character. The names
will be before the house; it will be for you to say whether
we have exercised • wise discretion; but you cannot say
that we have not frankly appealed to the house ; and although
these members may be called nominees, yet we have at-
tempted to invest them with all the authority whirl popular
election can supply. (Rear, hear.) I now, sir, come to
consider that pollute of the Council of India which is
to be chosen by popular election. In the bill the qualification
of four of these members is of this character, they must be
men who have served her Majesty or the government of
India in any branch of the service for the splice of ten years;
they may have been in the army or navy, the legal depot-
meat or the civil service in India, if they have served in
any capacity her Majesty or the government of India, or be
men who have resided in India for 15 }seam, whether they
bare been employed in agriculture, manufacture, planting,
or commerce. These are the qualifications for four members
of the council. We propose they shall be elected by • con-
stituency constructed in this manner. We propose that all
persons who have borne her Majesty's commission or that of
the governmentlof India for ten years, now residing in this
country, all men who have been in the civil service of her
Majesty in India or of the government of India for ten yews,
and any person who is the registered proprietor of 2,0004
capital stock in 'adieu railway or other public works in
India, or is the proprietor of 1,0001. of the publicatocks of
the East India Company (in this case having one vote
only)power of electing these four members,
the coln
have
etituenthcre which will elect them will amount, we
estimate, to about 5,000 persons. I have now to explain to
the house how we propose that the five other members shall
be elected, and what is the qualification we propose hi require
in those who are to occupy that office. The qualification for
rich of the lost five members is this. Be must be a person
who has been engaged in commerce with India, or in the
exportation of manufactured articles, for the space of at least
five years; or he must be a pawn who has been resident in
India for the "pace of at least ten years. That is the qualifi-
cation which we propose in the case of the last five member*
of the council. 'We propose that the election of them last five
members shall be confided to the principal seats of trade and
Industry in this country We propose, for example, that one
member of council shall be elected by the city of London,
that another member of council dial be elected by the city of
Manchester, that • third member of council shall be elected
by the town of Liverpool, that a fourth member of council
shall be elected by the city of Glasgow, and that • fink
member of council shall be returned by ie tows of Belfast.
(Laughter from the Opposition beaches, succeeded by cheers.
front the Ministerhil side of the house,) The chief seats of
trade in the three kingdoms will be represented by London,.
Glasgow, and Belfast, and, in addition to these, by that great
Industry in this country which is more isterested than
any other industry in the development of ladle ; for India
sends us no manufactured article, and India ought to send
mall the raw produce we require. Sir, I understand that
the feeling of the house to-*ht is rather in favour of en-
position than of oontroversy—icheers)—and therefore I ens
strictly limiting myself to narrating as clearly as I can what
is our scheme; of course reserving to myself and my
colleagues the right of enforcing on all due occasionsthe
policy we recommend. I beg the house, therefore, sot to
believe that it is from any desire or any other motive
that I confine myself so far as I can M • clear narrative of
our proposition. (Cheers.) Sir, I shall now have to welds
to the house what constitemacy we think ought to elect theme
members—whether it be by the Chamber of Commerce, by
the Corporal ion, or by some tithes body, that we think the
election ought to be carried on. fro doubt the commercial
bodies of these great towns are respectable, from theoharacter
of their members, and deserve the greatest consideration is
transactions of this kind. But these commercial bodies ere
not corporations, and it would be in the power of any body
of men to call themselves a Chamber of Commerce witbost
the intervention of the law and without the suction of the
times. A municipal corporation is &leo a body which every
one must respect, bat it is very limited in numbers and it
is not, I think, difficult to comprehend that sne oo=oe
of conferring the right to elect this council upon Cb of
Commerce end municipal bodies would be &considerable crop
of cadets for the service of her Majesty's Indian away moon
their members. (Hear, hear.) Sir, we have given to this
point all the consideration whhh so important • question
demands—all that ran be said upon it, foe or against,
has, I cannot doubt, occurred to her blajesty's government;
but it Is our opinion that the election of these members of the
Indian Council by the great seats of industry should be en-
trusted to the parliamentary constituencies of those cities.
Sir, in arriving at that conclusion, her Majety's government
teliemp that those constituencies will be animated by • sense
of duty, a feeling of pride, in regard to the confidence which
it is proposed that the State shall repose In thous. I ought,
broom to state to the lieu's that besides the sine members
who, ac, to
to the plan of this bill, will be Dominated by
the crown, and whose names we propose to Meer' in the bil4
It is our intention to recommend to the home, with regard to
the first four of the members wko are to he elected by hat I
may call • special lodises mastitosaey, that in the first in-
stance their names shall also be inserted in the act
of parliament; sad our object in doing so is to
recurs for this new council of India the pawed=
o..f...theindedgrea.tes,rtheezperinsouseeteetwienil
bed practice which
irlitcht
most of them I will, *lilt the pet mission of the house, nor
:.
read. (Hem) 1 have first to read the names, so
num,
they are filled in—end they are nearly_so—of the
members to whom 1 ham referred. We propose that A
tha
thashatotwsaisSittiftederickth..°ll°Ciellgurria—ges(6o7"7:::Tiwhe:Dengairnit.rstin thsralbS.Uditis:
Min of the. Bast India Company. ° afterwards
t • he was
441
sm".4. of
the
Indian
Vamp.'" era 4 Lord Ellen-
' hi*a
t"
yernwi-CiGn conuniseiona at
betough mid Saralee* i he was c
bill,rsn end b
lakeza, and anjandunety a member of the Supreme

he rut name that I have to Worm to the hems le *ha
Mr. =,a, rair sober of noon
sweetery, sad who I sew,
thelmilet aims, that of Me Y. Curie, represents
the dal otos of re Upper Paolo; the mead
that of Mr. Dorms, ropmenta the dal oleo
of civil mobs of Mabee we
hove ripressitted by Sir Hoary Morgemitry titre
Mr employed in the financial, revises, sad jomatet ser-
vice% lee been secretary to the geornment, and a member
of moil. We propose that the Bombay civil service shall
be operated by Mr. Pringle who enotered Sir Charles
Napier se Governor of Seinb 'Ors perrieusly held high
rim ender the Bombay Cornett. We proper that he whom
I may call the diplomatic we be Sir Claude
*ma—. name which is, I am we, well harm to this
bra, from the papers and Motor lefleafti Allgtuio-
lowa. He held • political appointees*, it PO•wur ; he
forced the Bybee Per, and was afterwards ardent as
Lahore. I have now glom the saner of the three geode-
men who. iodise to or pies, would regestar the
civil maim of what I may sell, bee the are of
simplicity of phrase, the fort priniameles, sad the
name of the gotternan whom we propose se re
err::mai, of the diplomatic of We prop es that the
service shall be oressred in this roe by
Liam/art-General Sir John Porather, who is sow et
Mats, and has eared both in India and in the Cringe. We
propose that Colonel Sargon. formerly coodeserripmetel
na the Crimea army, shall also be • member tire emer
nil. We propose that Sir Richard Vivien, lowly
adjutant-general at Madre% sad who has Inc. boss ht the
Crimea, end is now • director of the Post India Company,
shall also represent the military breach of the oho. The
name of the gentleman who would terror the Bombay
artily is not before no. Having now gess over the or
of the Brat comber. of the roil, I will proceed to reed
some other names which we propose to insert fa the
ball, but which, if the bill passes in the form la
witted it is framed, will be iracceeded by the names
of those who will be elected by what I may call the India!
constituency. The first name which it is proposed to Om
in the bill is that of the present chairman of the Board of
Dirretors of the East India Cougany, the hos. member for
Gtuldford (Mr. Mangles)—(citeers)—eati Mat whet I Mar
I trust he will be induced to undertake the ferhatat of
thew bor. Considering the hon. gentleman's high position,
his eminent talents. and what we can all winos to, Merest
knowledge of India, and coneidering the fact of his having
filled the chair in an exigency so severe as that which the
country ha. passed through, I cannot but believe that this is
• selection which parliament would expect and which the
country .111 ...action when it hare of it. The next name is
that of Captain Shepherd—(chore)—well known, I am
sere, to this hoes. as one ef the mostvelemble
members of the direction that wee ever chosen nadir
the old form of government. The seat name which I
hare to put before the house la that of • gentleman of great
ability, with whom we we all well soperred, se be bag sat
swag me—sir Jams Hogg. The be menaber is a p
deo --Piers the right hos. gestleman paused, wet the
effect of hi* doing as, alter snaring the weed "gentlemen,"
wee to elicit • burst of laughter, the oars of which he did
sot appear to understand.] Well, I most say that I have
had no political concrete with Sir Jame Hogg, he Oleg
opposed the party with whom I am sesocired on slot
every occasion, but I can bear wino to the reedy West and
the considerable knowledge with which upon all occasions he
haa advocated the interests of India, and I thought it was a
mime that would command attention. (Hear, her) At all
events, the same of Sir Jame Hogg has been selected err
the ereeeet consideration, and with no other object
than to pace one of the most efficient men Is
the country on the council. The next name Is
that of e getelernan who was foreign esore—tary for Bengal,
and a member of • ountil—ta gentleman who I believe,
quite unnvellot for he general knowledge of Indian affairs
—1 mean Mr. Pram). (Cheers.) It now becomes my duty
to detail to the rum the form of procedure and the gettersl
duties which we propose that the council should follow and
fulfiL We propose that the Rainier for India should have
the power of dividing the coon into committer ; that he
Odd arose these cookies% and excreta over them •
Casipewter el esservisies. We propose that it shall be in
peter of the Iffewelegy of Mete ferlathe to call a meeting of
the coed whomever la my Oa it requisite ; that
It earl stes he is the power of az members of the coun.
ell by elgadying their Olt sad is wears to one
of the eseniterise MUM% We OK Oaths run-
eil bee met, do shall be a of sakka, la sees the
swift is pradded over by the wareeary of stele hi "plans
shall be eased,., bet that be nail owns ia writing the
ore white have led hint to Eder the ewes that he has
den, sod thee that privilege viral ales be era revery mat-
h" if the roll Is the areas, of Ms amiretsey al dato
Ms atencil will he periled mar by the wlee-parilest. •
inejority of noise win this adds, the maim veletalk. of
some with the tarapreelleat; hut ia that ease the decklan of
Me named oat receive the sesseles of the Secretary of State
kr ladle. I do sot know that ft le swereary for moon this oc-
asins, main this head of the Orel, to eater into any details.
Of lane., what the house now reqMo I. to have laid before
ft the towhee features of the government Pme—(ltese,
leer); and therefore, having filly seared its the
mempositios of the council; hors shown, as I begs
I ban dare, that the oniony et each a council weald be
anneueskd by men who rand spa all sateen' whisk might
asks kr onmelentlea Islas the greeeme unseat of Inhume-
lea ad latellepsee le hem ape them; bevies awes the
bean thet we shell
line taloa that the erascil sheb
he
sm that It AA be sminmesd y
Idsslisisedulithel Si shall Was Magda mina le sot
apes ladles merlon" bane( shwa thk, I Wu the
bone mast saterdly whh that I said nub ups the
ether point whisk ant to the neellestlea of lb. asseed,
mom interested them in the resent ladles debates, sad re-
erettag which the cowry is, I bane, met
wen the therributlos and oche of prow
Lewd J. RUSSELL—May I ask kit how hag the roil
re to he sperhated
The CH ANC ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER —The mar-
here of the coil are to quit their offices et diarist
A* I ebb got to be Macao I will refer to the bill lioaa.
r•
✓ot. The right hon. parole hen smeared the bill.]
The periods ere two, taw, and six yews.
An Hos. MEMBER—Are they Isla reoligibis
The CHANCELLOR of the IIICH SQL:ER—Yes, in
retry eses. The terms ere le he twei, bur, and six yore
Permaretty the priod is to be sr pent. The maniere are
to be re-eligible, &admit to be Irsay to It in partamest.
(Hear, her.) Ile Wary Is s Is 1,0004 e year, which
M to be paid tee, of the IMO cove.. Whim the
settle bed courtsmely taternmell am I wee, I think,
an the swedes d
t pareaap. Now, one that
s:tstat 41 stall ban to tremble the-heene -only tor • very bid
space, berates the raft of the aresegment, speakkag
L":ly, I. this, that the dierraties of patroness will sot
171npi in the ham. (Hear, hem) Has Marty will do
anal; that white she did bean laikreetly ; she will=
rthe Govemer-Oreral, rebirth member of
gae overners of the planar, the advoesterfeamel.
sad es aa fate wIB, I esy, de all that dinetly. The ciall
who will be sisated, la the km hastanos, ender Moss se-
gainless welsh at resin walk sad whirr hare rated
eseleforily. Was." rid oral prow. in the bet
keiesse—the t anal awl military— ll be dri-
fting omeg the Oriel ef Mae as the, have been hitherto
the Bernd of IMreeters. The may changewill be that
fiweml re which the tranderrisst of all authority to the
Qasen resdenseemeary • but virtual the patronage which
le sow sunder by the East India Company will be exer-
cised in the suwe way by the Council of India. (Hear, hear.)
thereon only two other points of great importance upon
which it le mew sae awry for me to torch—one relating to
the army, sad the other to the Mance, of India. With re-
gard to the army we propose to make no change at priest
inept that which aecoaarily molts from the general
if the bill. Thenwill be two armies in India, and b=
Me Queen's I, ems from this country, there will be her Ma-
jesty's 1. Ilio.ry and naval faces in India. We have also re
sorted In the bill • clime which authors and will MIN-
Lae say change with regard to the military force la baba
which corumetasces may ultimately require. Now, sir,
them remains tali oebe other point on which I have to-night
to ear the amities of the home, and it realest° the finances
of India. Sir, we have taken care to Meadow in
this bill deers which, so far se clauses in acts of parliament
can nerve each a purr. Inn fin upon the revenues of India
alms the expo of 'the go...moment of India. (Hear
to) We have, if course, also inserted • clans;
ions, that the %manta of the Indian govern-
meat shall be placed every year on the table of this
bore ; end we have likewile eadeavoared to eita-
Misk • soMeirat and satisfactory audit of Indian ac-
counts in this country. Bat, all this having been done, I am
baud to asy that the relation between English and Indian
Mere. remiss to me • source of great apoornsion asd
anxiety—(hear, hear)—aid I feel that the tires he. arrived
whoa the Loose mast give their most attentive and serious
comaideration to that subject. (Her. hear) I admit and
accept ell time principles and opitaima which have lately
been lai.l down and expressed in this bore a to the Mar
barrels. which exists between Indian and English reverie.
Bar I arm conceal from myself that the Instance of
Canada aad Australia, which are so often adduced for our
guidance, do not apply with the compliant's' that I could
Mr to the state of India. (Hear, hear) There are pica-
Bernie' in the case of India--a vast country in-
habited by different ram% and having altogether a populatims
of cm hundred and eighty millions—which, In my judg-
ement, create • marked difference between the condoles of
that germ peninsula sad the condition of our Canadian sad
Aseadir colas... I accept the formal defence of the
Sauce of Iris which man hoe. gentlemen have offered,
sad which, technically ceneiderei, may to a cora extent be
relied rem. Bat that reliance is to my mind not sufficient.
mad I think a greet responaibility will devolve epos the
ministry eta the parliament of England if they allow Wilts
finance to remain in the obscurity In which it bee si) loos
been tan.leol. (Chews) Sir, able a has bees the ednii-
niarsti..n of India -coreterebte and data have
bias the mew whom thee rmieletratton lert me
deotd—
though India Um obounde, lan great captain% in greet diplo-
mart% and in able administrators of extenove dietricts at
country, the state of the far,. of lobe has
always bet u involved in perplexity, sod josta.
which his produced es may great men, seems never to have
prodeard a Chamomile, of the Exchiquer• er)en, k
at impossible f,r us to gat our eyes to what must be. or odor
what may be, the ultimate CoZwequelbees to the nom of
England of such changes es we are now propane to make
in the finances of India, or of such changes ea were recently
pop ate I by the noble lord the umber for Tinian. Mae-
Ma sir, in awe the hour shall per the bill which we see'
this night asking leave to introduce, it will be our dry le
recorete, nd her Majesty to sprint • royal oosimbeles to
visit India. in order to irrigate the heassiel stele of every
part of our In-Sian eetablishasests—(clos her the Weir
terialate) —to gore what is the nal fkreeW tiandlika

of India —to examine into its finance is an ire
hems, and into the mode of keeping its public
amounts, the collection, the rinelpt, and the ap-
pliciation of the publto revenue, and the system of audit's
that prevails, end to report generally upon the subject • se
that we may at last clearly comprehend in what relation we
stand to the finances of India, and may clearly understand
the condition of those finances, and so that we may not
merely prepare for the injurious nonnequenoce which, if it be
neglected, may accrue to our financial condition, but sea by
• timely and vigorous interposition prevent them. (Hear,
hear.) Being of opinion that this is • matter of paramount
importance, we have inserted in the bill a clause to that elect
—• dame, that is, providing for the awing of a ro al coin-
mission, immediately he, this bill shall have te M-
ood to India and investigate and report upon its
condition. So that if our policy be approved, and Shebat shall
receive the sanction of parliament, as well es the sanction
of the crown, the commissionees will go out to India with
full authority and power, and their taunt', may fairly be el'
meted to produos that bt:neflcia/ result which we anticipate
in reference to a subject which we think ought not to be my
kalPir mewed. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, I have, I hope,
glees the house a clear statement of the principal features
of the hill which we me now asking leave to introduce.
Then ere, of course, many details of that bill which I have
act touched upon, and which at this stage it would, of
course, have been wearisome to introduce ; but it has been
my endeavour that the house, before coming to • decision on
the motion which lam about to put into the Speaker's
hands, may clearly comprehend the chief provisions
which Mb bill contains. It contains • plan—
the first plan that has ever been introduced to parliament for
establishing a council for India—which shall be distinguished
for its knowledge, its special information, its high character,
its public spirit, and It. independence. (Ministerial cheers.)
We have endeavoured, moreover, to forma plan which in
the changes which are inevitable will draw the patronage
new intembed by the company into the hands of the crown.
(Hoar, hem.) We have directed our minds to these two
principal objects of pressing and immediate interest. But we
have not forgotten an object not less important—an object
without which no form of government can flourish, no pe-
tromp inn long be valuable. We have not forgotten that
it wee oar duty to provide for financial security for the
team, and to lay the fuindation in India of that which Is the
only brie of public welitre—a sound state of public
wealth. (Cheers.) I hope, therefore, that the house will
allow her llejestf s ministers to introduce this bill. (General
cheers.) I have moved for leave to introduce it to-night
Moue, the hems is probably on the eve of seperaftg, and
became we wished both the home and the country to have a
tell opportunity of sametning and studying the provisions of
the MD during the ream. (Hear, hear.) Believing that
those provisions ere for the welfare of this country, and will
lend to the renovation of India—believing that if this bill be
adopted there will be established for India In this country •
Sena of government which, so far as trenaections in India as
be carried on soccesetedly here, will be distinguished for its
aptitude, and adapted to meet every contingency which may
oother—l oak with confidence the authority of the house to
plea in the hands of the flpeeker the motion of which I have
satin for leave to introduce—" A Bill to transfer the
tof India from the East India Company to the
Qom." (Loud cheers.)
Mr. ELLIOT wished to know who MSS to appoint the
nisinture et enamel' in the dinned presidencies in India ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the bill
did not interiors in the least with the piwers at present
exercised by the Governor-General. No change would
take place with regard to the appointment of members of
council in India.

-16:11. F.-RISBET should like to be informed what the
right hots. gentleman proposed to do with regard to gentle-
men who were at that moment directors, and who, though
they had greatly distinguished themselves, were not in-
cluded in the het of names which had been reed. Ware they
to have any compensation P (Great laughter.)
The question hating been put from the chair,
Lord PALMERSTON said—Sir, I merely rise to say that
I entirely concur with those who think that the government
should have leave to introduce the bill, the contents of which
have been so clearly stated by the right hon. gentleman.
(Hear, bear.) But, while I give my cordial assent to the
motion, I trust both the right hon. gentleman and the house
will understand that I reserve the expression of my opinion
with regard to the bill until I hare had time to consider the
Proposed te in detail. (Hear, hear.) For this
present, I=f, ogsreicur in the motion that the bill shall be
brought in. I conclude that the right hon gentleman will
bring it in this evening, so that it may be in the hands of
members during the reuse. AU I now wish is that it may
he understood that by concurring in the motion I do not
imply any opinion as to the various details of the bill.

Mr. GILPIN objected that the people of India were
sot represented by the bill.
Mr. R. MANGLES said that he should oppose all
attempts to deprive the East India Company of its power,
but if the bill planed, he and his fellow directors would
do their best to promote the efficiency of the new govern-
ment.

Mr. WHITE thought that the people of India ought to
base been represented. The measure untreated favourably
with that of the noble lord ; but wu not, he feared, free from
dellreta and omierinos.

sir B. PERRY raid that the present bill mainly differed
bon that of the noble lord, in the increased number of the
acomacil sad the introduction of the elective principle. In the
applicable' of this principle clam interests were too much re-
seeded.
Mr. BLACK claimed a member of the council for Min-
but
VANCE claimed another for Dublin.

COlOlll4 SYKES said that the proposed commission was
maim. They could learn all about Indian finance and
revenue without one.

Mr. COX thought the bill a liberal one. Were the mem-
bers of council to be elected by ballot—like the directors at
present ?
In reply to these observations and to inquiries from Mr.
V. SMITH.
Mr. DISRAELI said it was not intended to place the pa-
tronage of the Indian army under the Horse Guards. That
he would propose vote by ballot when the country was una-
nimous on the subject; that it wee not compulsory on the
of State to summon the council, but silt members
could do so of their own authority ; sin would be
• quorum. The vice-president would not be • political officer,
nor have a seat in that house, and ha proposed to retain the
secret committee.

After min; further dissuasion on matters of detail,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the question wee of such
Importance that be should be sorry to give any opinion upon
it at the first hearing. He thought it was emends! that
bon. members should most carefully consider the bill with a
view to the perfecting a plan fur the future government of
India.

ROEBUCK elan thought that this was • matter of
the utmost moment. Bat at the outset he told the right hoe.
oedema that the bill would not attain the object In view.
The objection to thepremet system was that it was a double
government. The Presideet of the Board of Control go-
verned India ander the shadow of the Bused of Directors.
But the preset whams was no learn a double government.
There was to be • tkarstary of Btate and a Council, partly
elective and partly acuminated by the Crown. The bill from
beginning to end wee a great sham. (Laughter.) Hon.
members might laugh, but they maid am is the end he was
right.
Yr. BRIGHT said the bill was knight in that evening
that they might have the opportunity of considering it
during the room He would advise the government to an
that time in the same manner es they wished boa. members
to urns It, and during the interval which would elapse before
the next sitting of parliament to reminder thin men-
rm. He had been a determined opposes! of the
Bast India Company for the last eight or Mums ; in
parliament end oat of parliament had opposed it
During the whole of that time he never said a ward in its
favour. Ile had opposed it, not because the Item. member
for Guildford and his colleagues were any worse than other
mom, but because there always appeared to be a total want or
=saibility in the government ; end they never could lay
hande on the great criminal who had committed the
crimes which all England now admitted had been committed
on the population of India. The government had two pro-
positions before the house. He thought that as regarded
the question of responaibility—not pledging himself to any
positive opinion, but looking at the number of the council
and the mode of election—he was greatly of opinion that the
propositionof the noble lord the member for Tiverton was
greatly to be preferred to that of the right hon. gentleman.
(Hear hear.) He spoke with reference to the point of re-
epoasibility, and he was quite sore that a council of eight
would leave the president much more responsible than aoomn•
til of eighteen. He was not one of those who thought much
of this notion of popularelection. Judges were not elected
by popular comastummee, but the public were @ensiled to
have them independent both of crown and parliament; and
he thought it was quite possible to have a council for India
not elected, which should perform its duty se well as If it had
been elected by old Indians, or Mancheetermanufactonew, or

any other persons who some time in their lives might have
exported goods to India. (A laugh.) He feared that the
project of four or five great copal:theater:tea electing this
roused wee one of those propositions which pesrally went
by the same of clap-trap. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER proposed
Friday, April 16, far the leased reading, but, at the 'sr
pieta. of Lord John Russell, shooed it to Monday, the 19t
The army estimate would be brought fwvrard on the first
night after the recede.
The bill wee then introduced and read a first time.