The Express.
London, England, 1858-05-18 00:00:00

LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 18, 1858.

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TM WINSLAW.—A arse was tried last April
helms tits ttepreme Court et Salem revise oat of
New tenable. at Rockport Is 1846 Rows tun hisdnd
VMS eollactsd together, sad proceeded to several pieces
"bal._
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wol•Yed the Spices them Salad. Anon gem 'push
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"1" b. .61W by the destrseties of reek Eames. The
'entire_ vas hod he the defendants. the monies—aft"

IMPERIAL PA EL I AMEN T.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—Moszsy, MAT 17.
Tba Losz Ottaxottuoa took Ws seat oa tad, wookro at
• idock.

The Bishop of OXFORD presented petitions from a piece
in Berkshire, preying the hones sot to allow any legislation
which would permit persons pothering a disbelief in Chris.
tienity tiaA kili of their oats in either hones of parliament; also
from the Aebbiary, near Bath, preying the hoes, to
further smeneres which would remove all hiodrenoss from
our fellow-subjecte is ladle for reeeiviag the trwh of the
Geepal; elm from Worcester, wanes the Jew Bill; also
from the clergy of Tivertoe, expressing regret that a bill
bed been introduced for altering the oaths takes by mem-
bers; also from a place In Berkshire, pre) leg the house not
to allow any legien for the abolition of church rates
without providing an equiv.dent.
The Earl of CARNARVON presented petition, from
West Thiele& Beats; from Albury. Surrey, and other
places, agaiwt dienountenancing missionary efforts in India.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented petitions for the
of Chriatianhy is from the Wesleyan
illmiessierry Society ; from Derby, and from the chairman
end mentarke of the Beptist Ilkelenery Union of Gnat
&Bab and behind ; a petition teas the inhabitants of
ftmeltesspeors. preying Our 11111 111 the Belgians
Worship Act ; alao, a petition from Appleby, against the
orb. 1101.

should have so shrunk from its duty as to pa/waver in
silence that proclamation would have deserved iropeechneet
—(loud cheers)—and no one would have been so ready as
the right hon. gentleman to have brought forward a motion
—(oad ministerial chase)—to impeach the President of the
Board of Costae' U he had not expreteed his opinion on that
despatch. (Hoer, bear.) I say that he was bound to ex-
treme an opinion. Whose opinion P What opinion P His
own. At the true dictates of his own understanding, be
was bound to tall Lord Canning what he thought
of his proclamation, and he did tell him. (Hear. bear )
What conclusion ought we to come to P In my
opinion that that proclamation was calculated to continue
fur ever the ill-feeling of Onde. It is idle to tell me that It did
not ocefiscate the whole of the land. I have it here, and I will
submit certain wort in It to the understanding of the house,
sad aek theca what they mean? It says, " The first care of
the Deventer-General will be to reward those who have been
stuffed in their allegiance," and he names six persona who
are to nude all their property, and in • proportionate man-
ner remade and henuon are to be given to others who had
meted es these perms did. The Governor-General further
preelaime to the people—the people of Oude ; not the chiefs
or the great landed peprietora not to the Dukes of Bedford
—(" hear, hear," and laughter)—bat to the people of Dade,
that, with the deww amid empthes, the proprietary right
In the sell le eedlecaed to the Eolith government. (Hear.)
Recalled. this MS Wfitaill Y English. No language could
men eleareasi =pity
the that tie whole landed property of Dade
le gerseemens dßagland. (Ham, hear.)
our
mow I will make an observation upon a statement made
by the noble lord the amber for the sit of London se to
lie lejnallics el petibbing the and the deepen*
of the noble lad, and set the real proolarsadoe. How did
OM wear ? The intended proclemation we. sent home. A
yesolemawn wee tossed in LeMmew @her the fall of Luke
nem dflideg le seleserp*Otei the first euelmeism.
2=llffell hea asai•lso ••••4••••11
pd •• en answer our given te
that qamlise. sr was aid, and what was dome?
The reply ghee IMO that an saws, to Ur prosibmiloa led
ham mat, and • premise was gigot that that answer should
be laid epos the table. All that could be done was to say we
hue semi an answer to an idended proclamation; that
intruded prorlainexim sad intended answer you shall know
and yyouea do know. What is there wrong about that?
(Yhtttertal chum) This is a very simple statement, bat it
is a hue one. I say, In the first place that Lord Illeabo-
tough was bound to give an answer; that he was bound, in
the assond place, to give that answer which is his own honed
Wed he Wended to give ; sod in the third place, that that
answer was glum. Meer.) The gravamen of the charge is
that be had no right to produce that answer. Now, I would
sok the house if there are not certain questions that compel
ea
answer ? If I wee to go to • man and say " Did yon rob
Jack Stokes r. and he were to say, " Coneideratieas of
public policy prevent me from answering the question," what
wend be my conclusion P (Cheers and laughter.) And
when the hon. member for Birmingham got up and said,
" I have me a proclamation front the Governor-General of
India aboat Oude ; I want to know if you have heard of it ;
I went to know if you have answeted it ; I want to know
the nature of that answer"—what necurred P The he.. gen-
tleman the Secretary to the India Board got up and answered
half the question. He said—" We have answered it, and
you shall see the answer." Upon which m hon. friend,
who is not a man to be put off, said, " I hope the government
will not be satisfied with giving Shed sneerer; I am not ; did
they agree with the proclamation P" " No," said the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, " we do not agree with it ; we
differ from the policy indicated therein in every sem."
(Hear.) Now, I ask the hew es men of common sense,
the government bed said " From motive' of
public policy no answer tea be given, " what
would have been the conclusion to which they would
have come? Why, that "Yon, the government, blamed the
proclamation. If you had approved of it, you would have
said so at once. By declining to answer it, you have geld
you do not agree with the proclamation." And what wee the
conduct to be pursued, then:' Why that which the right
hon. gentleman did puma He said, " We disagree with
tharoclamation." It is maid, by deagredng with it yen
yme the arm of the Governor-General. But who Is to
P Was not Lord Bllenborough bound to answer the
proclamation ? Wu he not bound to muter it as hie own
judgment told him it should be metered P And Nun ewe-
pel the publication of his despatch, the evil rata Wee—
(polaris% to the ooppgp,rriition bamboo.) —and not there—(poiat-
ieg the madeleiW). (Cheers.) But it is one of the pacu-
learitige—l do sot my mischiefs—of a government like the
present, that we should know what is going on, and I believe
the asgammis sew used all go to further that hidden diple-
maw whisk is the moue o 1 this country. (Chews.) be-
lieve Frye knew from day to day what our government la
daft w aboold be better off than we are at Fusee Bet
new we me led blindfold In every kind of error. War mew
gas us, and we are told we must not *are. Peace
ewes wpm and we are told it is too late to impale.
When tt is Impmhnt for us to know what is going as
." yob& interest' steps in, and when the matter is at an
end, we are told it Ls all over. (Hear, hear.) I say that in
the present case there was se other rues kw the govern-
ment to pursue if they were hosed mom (Cheers.) They
were called upon to give their opinion. They did give it,
and they rave it according to the honest bias of their own
mind. When they were called upon to palish that opinion
they were celled upon by this side of the hones, and had no
eltereative. It was published in ROM of tbemeelves, and the
publication is not to be laid to their charge. (Cheers.) I
say, then, if we ere to regard our Indian dominions as a
matter of interest, we have a .rill greater Interest in truth
and justice. The people of Oude ought not to have been
treated with injustice. If we wanted to pacify India, the
coarse to be pursued was the course pointed out in that
despatch. I believe it to be an honest despatch, and I do
not know my own eoutrymen if they do not come to the
lIIIMOCOUChIPIOII. (Cheers.) I entreat the house to recollect,
If they are to %odder mere party motives, what they
will get if there should be • majority in favour of
the motion. Why, a government that was earthiered
latel(cheere)—becense they had neglected the honour
y—
of England—(renewed cheere)—vrho are, after a few
weeks 'pent out ne the cold region of office. anxious to be re-
lutated as the Treasury bench. (Continued cheerier/)c:had
for what? Do the people of England expect are
changed? If they do, they wid wofully mistakes. y,
the great memos we so ardently deers is more likely to be
obtained from OW weak government (pointing to the
Treasury beech) then from the strong insolence of this
(directing hie finger to the opposition). (Loud chows.) I
have seen both. I have tried deka both, and I am sure that
we get further on in the way cif improvement by the aid of
the present party than by the assistance of the other.
(Cheers.) If we auk simple honesty, simple justice, for the
people of India—lf we wish to poems happiness and gad
government In India—ere shall 'tee the motion • decided
negative. (Loud cheers.)
Sir C. WOOD complained that the attention of the house
had been diverted from the real question at Mote, which was
simple enough. The supporters of the resolution, he said,
contended that the government, in prematurely condemning
Lord Canning's proclamation, and condemning it in un-
juetifiable terms, and, worse than all, in publishing their
condemnation, to the detriment of the Governor-Oemerara
authority, bad promulgated opinions almost Incompatible
with the maintananee of our power in India. The hoses
was not celled upon to approve the pelicy of Lord Cueing
with reference to Oude, respecting which there was a ded-
riency of evidence; it was irrespective of that policy that he
railed upon the house to condemn the promediege of the
government. He proceeded to argue that en %owed cow
erosion had been put upon the proclamation ; that 'Map-
prehension' prevailed as to the proprietary right in Oude;
that the landholders oppressed and maltreated the people,
for whose good it was desirable that the talookdar system
should be extirpated—though be did not believe that this
was the meaning of the proclamation, which was, he
observed of the mall character, and in accordance with
the policy pursued In the Punjab. But if the pre.clamatio• was
thought to be too severe it ought to have been reproved in
mere appropriate terms, not with heehaw and invective' •
end at all events ft ought not to have been published.
What ha feared was the effect that would be produced on the
people of India by the publication of the despatch. Twenty
changes of government would not have so Ind an effect.
What would he the effect of the people In areas against us le
India? Was it not a direct encouragement for them to per-
severe? (Hew, hear.) They bad told them that the sat-
imitation of On% was a tweed" of faith, and disrobes
unjust, and that the ossdnet at the Governor• General we
unjust and unjustifiable. Why did they speak of the annex-
ation of Onde ? It was not Lord Cenning's set. They said it
was unjust ; bat why did they not any PO when it was does
two year's.° ? Hat there was not • syllads not a whisper
skeet it them Were they prepared to restore Oude and make
an hmispiendeet kingdom of it . No ; shrank from that.
They add they would facilitate the of Oude, bat
did they Wok fist telling the people that they had been an-
*ay traded was the way to Mince than to ley down their
arms. Dett if this less true of Oath ft wog treed the Pea-
Wire true of Scinde, and it was aunt the leas Yes a
This despatch would be published In emery now
pawl India; and what would be the effect of HI Shwa
we be rob aim lemur/ ion and war P Weenie that em
meant gmeliss, more hurrtaat ten thousand times than •
of gems eat I' He looked upon this despedek,
= in
As ipmernasent tad them was a =mew of peer. ea
• Irehmi et war. (Chews.) They had ared to Im-
bed, to Di/eph. an to India, that in the opinion of these
who at prenint dinned her Hejesty's connalle or
vammentla India wee mist He loam not what weer be
the nisei predege& row wind they wail de to prevent the
adeadd temeloned by the paints/Am of OM demetek. Bet
fits he did ugh that he held it to be the tkety el the
Hem d Osaamme r rebel at the mate* peerible
maimed will prableatioa et seek opinion as
them aylahar• the yattleedeit wwidth
hearreetha Whiten eee end Is the ether. Bel=s
the hem we breed le peel et egailast br eresartag the
esaiest d thew .he bet ties • atop re had to ear late-
reels is leak. Let Urea ti the posed. el Inils, se fay se
they enalk by ehmatay *Mk repeekatlsa the rodent of the
goverereent, thet Soy HI set MU mai • dechtse se that,
• not that they were asalens ihs germs othenrime titsa by
olimaincy and Judie% bat that they woes pawed le mit-

taln those posamions which the valour of stir soldiers and
the skill of thus this country bad placid in authority bad
won for than; and that they ware determined to rule India,
ace as the Wm of Olds and as many n►tive rulers ruled
their tomentirs dominions, with craft and tyranny, but that
thew would de them ea British dominions always bad
bms Inhid.ilj,tidos, by. due ato the feeliride ths
of 1 non especially by meroy.
.

Mr. IIAIUY could not consider the motion an honest
one. The resolution, he maid. was involved and ambiguous
its teems, end shaped so ite to etch votes. With regard
to the proclamation, he contended that there could be no
mistake in ndia, any more than in England, as to its
meaning, witch was repugnant to the rules and principles
precribed it • despatch to India dated the 24th of March,
and which was laid upon the table of the house on the 29th
of April. Thor rake and principles of justice and huma-
nity, he said, bad been acted upon by the government, and
erred, he admitted, in strong and forcible terms is the
deeper In cortics, which was intended not to insult bat
to war Leal Canning, who, he believed, would read it In
hirer spirit from that in which it was reed in
&at buses. If it was an error to condemn an sot of •
Governer-Ovneral before his explanation had been received,
it was no more, he remarke than had been done by a
torero goverment, of which some members of the late
administration had' ginned • part, which had condemned
en act of lord Auckland in 1839. without giving him an
opportunity :0 explain ft. The proclamation of Lord Canning
could not la confined to the kingdom of Oude. In the
stighbourhind there was a district, Rohilcund, where there
wee • peculiar rare of land—a joint family tenure. Several
members of s family held the rake piece of laud ; and as it
was often net euAlclest to support them all, some of them
took service is usighbouriog moires, and under the Bast
India . Meta& it wie be thought that the-pools-
-1 to them f Meat.) Would not the people
Rolsilound ask one another, " If hinge are dose In
the green tree, what will be done in the dry P—if the
British government treats the inhabitants of Oude in
this manner, what will It not do to us, who ere confessedly
wader its rule r (Cheers.) Again, the proclamation would
be prdiarly grievous to the Hindor ; for they held that un-
Isr they had land which they oould charge with
.12issireenta
on wooer of sacrifion for their souls their eternal
wail as their temporal interests would be compromised.
(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Hardy) would ask his hon. and
learned friend (Mr. Roebuck) what was the object of this
motion P (Cheese.) Was it in England or to India
(Renewed cheer) If in India, he could only say that
serious as would be the effect of the proclamation, a majority
in favour of the resolution would be still more MOLL
(Cheer) It appeared from every newspaper of that day
that, as regarded the result of the
there was but one opinion in India. (B=l3l
would quote • few lines from an article which appeared on
the bob of Maybe what was called "the leading journal," but
which he hoped would not lead the public mach longer—
it led them in so gray contrary directions. (Laughter sad
cheer.) One short fortnight ago the journal in question
wrote "All the authorities concur in afilivaing that we
might come to terms with the inhabitants without say trouble
at all. Neither landholders nor people, even in Oudot, have
any objection to our rah or supremacy; but the tamer dam
desire • sanahnory tenure of their estates, and the latter
look for seenranas and protection." (Laughter.) Very dif-
ferent was this from the course that great journal had race
taken. (Hear, bear.) He (Mr. Hardy) had received or had
ssen many letter, which, however, he would not produce,
became he should be called upon to read them ; and that he
had no authority to do. This, however. he would state,
namely, that they entirely confirmed the statements
in the Indian me and showed that the pro-
clamation re ocotemned from one end of India
to the other. (Hear, hear.) He would venture to say
that if the peoclanuttion was averted into effect, they would
require not merely reinforcements for the troops in India, but
a new army of 20,000 men. (Load cheers.) He read in the
Nisei of /Sir which had Jost arrived :—" All the autho-
rities who describe the impedimenta to • forcible subjugation
of Oade concur in affirming that we might come to terms
with its inbabiumita without any trouble at eIL Neither
landholders nor people, even in Oude, have an objection to
cur rule or supremacy ; but the former class desks a satisfrio-
= tenure of their estates, and the latter look tar assurance
ion." (Cheery.) And again —" All efforts to
conelatesthe country people round Lacknow have hitherto
proved unavailing. They will neither return to the city,
nor provide our troops with supplies. Not one of our
men dare wander for from the main lady. It makes every
man in Oude a declared enemy, sad does sot exhibit any
means of coercion. (Loud chore.) As an sinnesty, the
hoots confined Is ridiculous; for what power havers=
te death fire millions of human bier f Bat the
tertiary has been for some tire exlmitsted ; the proclamation
cennot refill it. Linkers cannot be pat up to auction, nor
the crass of the sold to the blehmot Mien. Owls
cannot be wailed oat into mall home and let to aliens, far
Interlopers would as soots take poression et the forfeited
estates as an Irish ranger of a Tipperary estate in !year el
famine, or a charth Warmer, of a Befog under theNeepoli-
tan government. The reports that the proclamation will give
rise to will be endless. The British government will be held
up both ma weak and rapacious; as weak, in offering the life
it has not the power to take; as rapacious, in rising estates
to which it has no right." (Loud cheers.) The right hon.
gentleman (Mr.','. Smith) told the house that it had no in-
formation upon which to 171011001100 an opinion upon the
meaning of the proclamation; but the gentlemen opposite, in
some of their speeches, had put an interpretation upon it
whisk no one to England had a right to pot, and which the
people of Olds bad not put. (Cheers.) But this, forsooth,
WIN not a party question—this was not • question that
affected the tenure of office. He did not know with what
feelings hon. gentlemen regarded those (the ministerial)
benches—and, for himself, the sooner he was turned out the
better it would be for his ease and comfort. (Laughter.)
But there were rights to be vindicated and a duty
to be done. (Loud cheers.) He should wish his
right hand might wither if ever he held it up
in support of anything that outraged humanity ,•
but he was proud to gay that he could on this occasion hold
it up in the common interest both of England and of India.
He did most firmly believe that when the recollection of
parry struggles had pared away, it would be admitted
that the noble lord, the late Prendest of the Beard of Con-
trol, though he might have been injudictions, had been
actuated by nothing bat en honest hake to promote the
good of the people for whose sake tasked sacrificed thirty years
of his life. (Load cheers.) It hon. gentlemen opposite suc-
ceeded In their attempt to re-ocoupy the treasury benches,
they would have done so without proclaiming a
policy. (A laugh answered by loud cheers.) They
would not have declared whether they intended to main-
tain the proclamation or whether they intended to disavow
it; and the public would justly say that they bad taken
office under false pretences. (Loud cheers.)

Lord DUNKELLIN insisted that the publication of the
despatch wee premature, and tip= the merits of the cue in-
volved in Lord Canning'a proc6mation untied that the an-
nexation of Oude was a jut aeompli, and its inhabitants, In
taking up arms against the British government, were abso-
lutely guilty of rebellion, and deeerved to be so regarded by
the Governer-Generol.

Lord LOVAINE ealdbehmonddfhat the proclamation had
hem heed; be lamented the ha 4s shah had been written
bat be thought the fair wens be to give a verdict on
the emotion whether the pecielareatiem ha right or not ; and
be bed as beeitstice In expreethet thevithea before the
brew end he cons that the thee 411111101ading para-
graph to Lad El 'a despatch embodied the right
Syr w whi4
Iliseratbestamiddictbe geeer.d (Seer,
et
India
itaterois.itbillta zrertemist radon::
ihweitiM
k=
at he people of Isla eagle met to be mho le doped em tie
teethe of Aloe by the severtheent or mother ; bat the
Width of dot vest diapeeheey thaeld be cessidered with re•
leice le dee wain el the ths demedvei (Hear, bear )
He thyreethi the psalm la width be head bionic bat,
herbs me him prides to than bet below& therevel of
the preekortka ee of the deepeWt, be meet
_meth give
We thedith OM the deopeteh of Lied Mathieu* ontaised
righ prbelpies, sail that the proclaim*. of land Or tang
eras mot isheidel to produce that woe sod ytheythity
width they ell asked so much to see ia Imam (Hem)

Mr. EYED mid that even wile it peseibb to
separate the reeponsibility of Lord Elbabeeough from
that of the other winters of the cabinet, the speeds of
the boa. gentleman the Under-Esoreitory of the Maas Do-
Ft did away with that illatioo, berme be add ma-
tabaat he objected to the proclamation ad identified hire-
with the tams of the despatch. The seodlog oat of
that despatch was. in hie opinion. fraught with danger to
Ragland and to India; to England, becomes it nude the
House of COUIMOIN perform the familials of the executive of
India, sad would dear while eorronti be. saran, them
with New is feinroi to Ind* bosom It disavowed the
ennonatioa d Oodo. the eanszation of Dodo wasZLOM
they eight le give It book. Were the rowntweet
to do that t It would she Week the potpie dr—rare
that they might gain tamp by a change of govern-
meat at be... (Hear.) Bat what he most disapproved of
wee the mum which had been pommel towards Lead Oar
slog. H. wen so oiled,., sad seinely a fee d, al Lord
Canby ; bat le could sot bat Rook of the—re he be-
hold west H--Lima would wok of bie—la temp of
edwiteloa ead_yroliwile hr asimet aim is WAIL
Mer&trj....) Wow osuld may ow Mil. Is
the theibp d
he tho lest tat mends' f the Win a
eeieille-i,—Zr with a pole Rt Orkeele, be wee the emir ma
whole we bed as.. MK sod who hod set boa temeried
to mete of ark or raehows. (Ear, bear.) e ewe
dililartmess Lad arieeig EVA hope hr suppersima
NA there IPSO sal mio hem when be might have booed
hr eoppatt, that ma woe Lad 70110111,11.6. who bed li-
mit iellestigemiematioto to labs, eel baswidndlt woe to be
bowl heft willtia streement el • haw* depatheep
Ka Weed then woe hew la the yuldleeNeo- d the
Ir:s bat Sere ems Dom to avert that ewe if the
Oemooes sow tared to vet", the Noe and
1111841010 (Hoor. bear.) Let dm Mare of Com-
mons deelom girt
hey basted Lard Cunha to bins weed
alliter—ht thewt peals hot they dbereeted the PAW sit