The Express.
London, England, 1856-06-11 00:00:00

(Stamped Id. Additional.) [TWOPENCE.

Mr. H. DRUMMOND hod not the presumption to en-
deavour to correct public opinion, or to suppose, with the
advocates of this motion, that until the year 1866 men
knew how to govern mankind—and seeing that, in all part
ages, and In all countries, the punishment of death had
prevailed for great offences, it did appear to him to
be snonetrous presumption in any man, or any body of mew,
now to stand up and condemn all who had none before
them. Whet he objected to in referecce to the
present state of the law wee, that it sithjected the Secretary
of State to Constant importunities, the moment a criminal
was condemned, for a remission of his mots/ice. Many years
ago, when Sir Fowell Buxton lived, he remembered that he
secretly ever met him but he had some scheme in his
head to get cif some scoundrel or other who bad been con-
demned to be hanged. In one case he remembered
he (Mr. Drummond) asked Sir F. Buxton, who woe about to
importune the late Sir R. PHI, who was then Secretary of
State, to respite a condemned prieoner, whether he bad any
doubt of the man's guilt. "Oh, not the least," wee the
reply. "Then why interfere ? " he asked. The acswer
woe, I feel it my duty to endeavour to save the melee
life." Now how it could be say man's duty to save a
criminal from the punishment dim to his crimes, be (Mr.
Drummond) Gould not understand. (Rear, hear) Some
time after be met Sir F. Banton at Rome, trying to do the
same thing with the Pope, but he doubted whether his
effects with the head of the catholic church to penned'
him that the indiction of the paniilmes.t of death wee
sati-Ohrietlas, were very theethetel. When the right hoe.
gentleman (Mr. Walpol►) was Secretary of State for the
Home Department a man committed a murder in his (Mr.

Drasnatad's) park. He wee convicted and sentenca to
death. A number of clergymen and genotemen got up •
memorial to save the man, and asked him (Mr. Drummond)
to present it to the Hem. Secretary. Hs asked if the judge
who tried • the one bad boon ccassultod; the answer was
yes, but he took the same view that he (Mr. Drummond)
did. He 031111Witady Wood, and afterwards his right hon.
friend Soaked him for hang ban the =gang of saving
him from meat annoying insportuaitios. They might
jags of the nature of thorns importunities by
the petition which bad been nantly printed, and
was now gobs about for sign , fur obtaining
• remission of the sentence paned upon a r °loam's cri-
minal. This petition was sattanpaniad bye letter (rum Mr.
Herewith, the =limn, to which he did not attach mush
importance, for uoless be was greatly misinformed that
gentleman in one particular we went to his right bon.
friend (Mr. Walpole), when be was Secretary of State, ion
portuoing him to stay an oxention, assuring him that a
anal° poison had not bees administered, while at that
very hoer the criminal was confessing that be used it. He
was sodas to alien the Secretary of Stan from those
impoittusitiss. Formerly executions wore left in
the hands of the sheriffs In the country, but
I. London the custom was for the &ander
to roan te the sovereign the cue of every
criminal condemned to execution, and take the royal
planers upon it. Ho would suggest that nun such course
should he again adopted, that the &corder should make his
report, that the judge who tried the see, and the Chief
Jokes of the Queen's Bash and Common Pleas, together
with the Lord Chancellor, should be consulted if soy fresh
evidence should be brought forward alter the passiog of the
mance, and that they should decide whether there ware
any grounds for extending the royal mercy. Of course he
would not fetter the prerogative of the crown. The crown
might pardon whom it pleased, but he would not leave the
matter where it was without some more effective and better
organised machinery which should ensure the revision cf
the sentence, if nrcessory ; and if not, that it should be
earth= Who effect. (Hoar.)
Mr.SLAKE MO RE supporta the main, aad referred to
• cue is whit= two persona had ben condemned for
murder in Wale,, one of whom had non proved to be in-
anent, and had NOD pendant
Sir G. GREY having had masks throe or [oar times
already to state the views of the government on this ink el
of the punishment of death, la reply to his honourable
friend, be was not now in • position to off r any new
argument as spinet the motion now brought forward, and
must express his Dope that for the sake of that protection
which it was essential that the law and the execution of the
law should throw around society and human life the
house would agate Meta it. The present motion was
slightly at variance with those whisk had formerly bees
submittal. Oa former oceaslans his hon. friend had either
submitted a easolatioa declaring the expediency of abolish-
ing capital punishment, or asked for leave to Wag in a bill
to accomplish that object. la the present instance, the
so*" as it was originally gives, was is similar taro; but
witMa the last few day, , fallasond no doubt by =rein-
state's' that had reently otarral, it had been altered,
sad new what the house was asked to do was
to consent to the appointment of • select tea-
ming' to inquire into the operation of the law imposing
the punishment of death. Ho, however, could see but little •
substantial difference between this and the former =otiose.
By his speech his hos. friend asked the how in norm I
taigas to sonsout to the abolition of the punishment •
of death, and to sabstinto a milder, and, as be
sidled it, a lam sad paolehmost, U, therefore, the
house atessatied to the appointment of the committee,
coupling the motion with his hon, friend's speech, they
ovoid be in effect expressing an cpiDioa that it was
expedient to discontinue the anishatent of death
altogether. That he thought woad be • very &corns
ogonclulon foe the Donee to come to. (Hear, hear.)
Oa ono polat he entirely agreed with his hos. hind. His
bon. friend said that a preliminary objection was enter-
Wool against the motion on theological grounds, and that
than won than who held that the divine law was inacora-
tin en the 'abject of the infliction of the penalty of death
for the crime omurder. He (Sir G. Grey) did not go the
Length of those who held that doctrine, bat neither, on the
other hand, could be anal with those who avertedthat the
andobsert of death, established by any civil government
in any civil state, was contrary to the law of God
as °Detained in the New Tostanient—(hear, bear)—and
he mast ask his honourable friend when he discarded
the theological groat, and called upon the bow to eon
alder the glandes on the ground of expediency, to dismiss
the aid he would draw from the petition he had required
to be read at the table, wherein the petitiosers averted
broadly that it was contrary to the gospel to take away the
life of a man under any circometances. (Hear, hoar.) A
gnat samba of petition bad do llen bean posted
that day in favor of his boa. friend's season, while none
had boos manta against it. In ordinary oasis a strong
Infernos might be drawn from that (tridental''', that
public opines ran in the dhoti.= =glinted by the prayers
of the petitioner.. But that opinion could sot be loin-
-taloa when It war. collected that these petitions were got
up
by an organised system—that they wan stereotyped, as
it wore all being la the game terms, honestly expressing
the opinions of those who gigged them, unquestionably, but
in no way indicating the ennui of publia opinion, because
each wee the feeling is men's minds that, however they
might object to the abolition of capital punishment
in cum of murder, they would ashtray abstain
from potitkeing in 'STOW of its =nation. If • person
was atspeetaddf a treacherous murder, the sympathy of the
public was with the law, and spinet the supposed criminal ;
bat the moment he was aseviond and sontnood, there won
always numbers of pawns whon sympathise wen imme-
diately transferred to the prisoner, whom they looked upon
at an ads= deserving of ocaanaseratios, and for the rota
Oa of whose sentence they spared no station. (Hear.)
And this feeling in favour of convicted oriminala was not
ceased to awe when the capital sentence was pre-
apnoea, bat, as they had goes, was frequently
extended to those who won condemned to paneli-
st's's of a secondary nature, whits on the other hand
they never how et sew where sou came forward to
petition the mows sat to 'steed its may to a admiral, at
to pray for the Sadao of a severer sentence. His boo.
Mead (Mr. Hadfield) was mistaken if he supposed that
those Benton be referred to, air 8. &slily, Sir E. Pool,
sad others, who had exerted themeless to humanise our
°against law, were in favour of the removal of the
punishment et death from the savory of criminal punish-
orate. They abolished the extreme penalty in reference
to • great number of crimes, bat they retsina it is sons
few. The bon was new dealing with the question of
capital punishment as it now Gained, not es applying as
firma, to a great variety of Wean. bat as applying to
murder. And when, his own friend (Mr./lore) asked the
how to deans its opinion that criminals convicted of mur-
der should not suffn death, be based the issue on the termed
of expediency. To justify this retention of any punishment
his boa. Mead contended it was swum to show that it was
*Males for the ropeosaioa of crime—that It was equal
and that it was revocable if it should tern out that the con-
viction woo wrong. (Hoar' hear.) Wish regard to the
Odense, of the punishment for the repression of arise he
was nod to express his opinion, confirmed as it was by
statietioal roar& and the conviction which reglad upon every
man's miadolltat the paniamout of death was that which
sea bawd epos with greater dread than any other, and
that woo were elisteel than any other in repressing
Grimm (law. hem) As his hos. friend had not based his
ar cm swath% he (Sir (*.Om) bad as weeks, as
he led lid ea *maw eeessioas, te refer to statistic. to reo
fats god Hs might, loaner, say in answer to the me-
tal 'toques; Slat while all ;hese oulesse In which the
capital yyasishasal bad been abelbbed, bed degreased slate
the lbe eels* of winder, be aid* the punishment
et dell* vs mill setelead, had imeesek that the rank
of the Adel etsiletlea is his bask wee di ee ly the manse.
The feet wee Mese* opposite to the Onsun. Buvglnry
and ethos Grime bed lawesete. wills that of murder had
doesood, aeliettletweilas the lawmen ell pageleAse, and
it say swum{ twee Wm bedew' tees ea .ele it was
slat the petehhosst N deattb Mined bees sae As
regarded eaeratiess el lessee he made,, be Awned
that it wee set the ease that they had twee speteeettioally
melba. • Ina wpm* ti the wiewtta=ltflr mkt
use% It en as sysedua
d=ris:
TIN Ism Arala

judges in the degree of punishment, though the crime
might legally he the lame in the eaves which were purist -
able by transportation. If by certainty of punishment was
mut a uniform inflicting of the same panishment for the
same crime, it would often lead, even in cases which were
almost identical with murder, to greet injustice ; end there
weirrley cube: is
swoh,
ihe
dt e clemency e f
ith f..t %%e crown
to mci.g,ht rt;-.
hewould allude to what had been said with re-
gard to juries, judges, end the power vested it
the Secretary of State. It was going too far, to
say that Juries refused to convict in clear NM on
account of the 'tensity of cepitel punishment ; and if there
were such cases, they were esceeningly rare. However, it
might hotfoots' e the minds of juries in favour of the pri-
soners, end it might perhaps act in the, Townie" of verdicts
of manslaughter instead of murder ,• but in these cam the
very punishment followsd which bas hon. friend wished to
apply coati cues of murder, saintly, penal servitude for
life. As regarded jadges ee did not think the remark of his
hon. friend on the emotion shown by judges la sentencing
prisoners was to be attributed to anything bat the natural
feeling which a man must experience in the performaose of
that duty. With regard to the duty of the Secretary of
State in these case*, no doubt it was at times painful and
onerous, and there was nothing which required more care
end attention than the elimination of such cam, but in
mom of those cam the evidence was so slur, the objectiose
heist rurally made on philanthropic 'emends alone, that
the duty became comparatively easy. It was now the
custom for the judge to report to the Home Office ca the
evidence in cases in which he doubted whethe r the crime
amounted to more than manslaughter, and it became then
a matter for the consideration of the Homo Department,
and this custom was facilitated by the alteration of the law
which ceased the sentence being put into execution at
more distant period than formerly, when it followed the
test day after sentence. At the same time there were cases
In which some deference mast be paid to public opinion, go
as to prevent sympathy being felt rather for the criminal
than for the vindication of the law. It the member for
Surrey could devise any plan to relieve the Secretary of
State from this duty, he would confer a great favour on the
holder of the office, bat it was to be feared that it would not
be possible to substitute any other tribunal for that which
now existed. His hon. friend's argument with regard to
murders by poison seemed to him to be fallacious, for it was
clear that the advance of chemical science had of late years
led to greeter facilities for the detection of that crime.
With regard to the example of foreign countries, his hon.
friend bad adduced no argument to chew that their practice
was more advantageous than that of this country ; and as
he (Sir G. Grey) believed that no penishment was so effi-
cient to deter men from crime, he terabid the house would
join with him ice rraisting this motion.
Mr. LIDDELL argued that It we. not easy to show that
the panisho.ent if death was not a punitive to crime.
Although of late years great efforts had been nude in the
dirrat,oa of reformation of criminals, could it be said that it
was possible that even each a system was so sufficient to
turn aside the current of human passion as to indoor the
relaxation of the system of punishment which had hitherto
existed. (The hen. member here met with so much opposi-
tion to his prawadine, that he abruptly sat down).
Mr. BROTHERTON urged that the punishment of death
we. opposed alike to humanity raid Forty, and where the
intuitive feelings of men's hearts taught them that
an set was opposed to justice, mercy, sad humanity,
it was clear that it was also opposed to good polity.
The honourable gentleman amidst considerable in-
terruption proceeded to erg* the inefficiency es
well as the inhumanity of the punishment of death, and
to deny that it was according to the law of God as embodied
in the scriptural won*" Whooo sheddeth man's blood by
man shall ha blood be shed." That was no more to be
taken ea a justification of the punishment of death than the
words of our Saviour when he said, "He that taketh the
sword shall perish by the sword." (" Divide, divide,"
and interruption.) After some further observations,
which were quite unintelligible from the noise wlrch
prevailed, the hen. gentleman concluded by expressing his
intention of supporting the rentioo, believing that evidence
could be brought before a select rommitt. e which would
justify the abolition of the punishment of death.
Mr. WARNER then roes, but was greeted with such a
shout of disapprobation, and such cries of Oh, oh," and
"Divide," that it was impossible to secertain the mot pur-
port of a single sentence of his observations, bat he we.
understood to support the motion, though not precisely
en the ground, and with the view to the immediate shots-
tin of espial punishment ; metinision that I
enldffitee W usehally acmaiduntiolea

I of this question.
The home thou divided, when there appeared—
Foe the moths 64

Ageisat
Mr. HEYWOOD moved for a select committee to inquire
west public measures can be adopted so advance science and
improve the position of its cult vatote. He supported the
motion In a short speech, urging the deficiency of practical
results of science in this country.
Mr. MACKINNON thought the mere giving trod, for
science was perfectly useless ; that it did not create science.
which depended upon the general education and genius of
the people.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed
that the practical question involved in the motion eras
whether the government, by the judicious application of
public money, could advance science. But its teems were
se indelleite, proposing merely that the committee should
madder whether same means could net be discovered, that
be doubted whether any advantage could he derived from
the notion, which he recommended Mr. Heywood not to
peen.
The motion was supported by Mr. Tres.
Lord STANLEY suggested Chet Mr. Heywood should
sot press his 'Betio' then, but consult eminent scieetile
uses is to the spec:fie measures which it was desirable for
the government or the hone to adopt for the furtherance
of his object.
Lord PALMERSTON said the difficulty lay in the de-
termining how science could be prowled by public men
sures, and be did not think the appointment of a committee
eas likely to lead to any satisfectory result. He should be
thankful, he said, to soy person who mold auggert any
mount widths the scope of parliament or the power of the
government for the *demonist of Meese • bat he thought
It better that the motion should not be pressed at so late a
period of the nesioe.
Mr. EIIYWOOD withdrew his motion
(Daring this debate the hone was very scantily attended,
scarcely twenty members remaining present. Pour sepa-
rate entente wen made to " count out," hut were defeated
by *rash of members from the lobbies and library, who
retired again when the purpose ear eff•Mol.)
RIGHTS OP MARRIED WOMEN.

Sir B. tVeotiCe .roiltdattration to
the prmest state of the kw with mind to the rights of
married women, sad sword the following resolutions:
That the mike el the mum= law which rive Ml the pro.
perty of a teems es minims mad all mbeneestly property
mai earalaee. le the htdiand. we outset M priedpie al hawk= Is
their intradom
nes the pelemhohe of Owls of qty width reessente separate
non* is a menial mom sad tn...t her with roma to emelt
pelmet,. irith tile eels if ownership, foris asterdeeee mkt' the
reeelreessati of the ass, NM Is toolloneity with the opiate= awl
wares of the wealthler WM, heinsell dome of eeelete.
net la the ephdas et Oh hems the mike between ed
gutty as the wades went to be tisedeseei by • went kw,kw
bred
es the whet*. of equity. vial asald apply to all elmesm
Lord STANLEY emmeded
- - - •

The ATTOBNBY•OENERAL setnowlerimed the neces-
sity of remodailier Me law, 6o as to unitise/ebb the pressat
disereparrefee between law and equity, so regarded the pro-
perty of married women. A Dobson for effecting this end
►e premised to undertake during ihe recea., end meanwhile
trusted that the reeoleittee ilea beton the beam would not
be pressed.
Further observations en then lewd status of 1106141 U after
marriage were offered by Mr. Wins, Me. Mintz. Sir R.
/JAW, Mr. Whiteside, Mr. J. 0. Phillienore, Mr. Pox,
sad Mr. T. Climbers.
_ _ _

-- -- - • ---- ---
After c reply from Sir B. FIZZY, the notice wee with-
draws. -- -- - -- - - --- -

POSTAGE LABELS.

Mr. WHITESIDE moved for • select oommittee to
inquire into the circumstances under +bleb the government
purchased Mr. Archer's machine for perforation postage
labels, sad entering into the ezieting agreements with con-
tractors for printing and gummion them labels. The hon.
member gave a narrative of the eirentootanrea from which
be drew the conclestos that Mr. Archer feud @offered smelt
isktatiete et the bands of the Treatury, while the public
bad been Injured by tit* oatamaiaoso of an improvident
°outrage.
Mr. WILSON recapitulated facts and referred to docu-
ment' to prove that Mr. Archer bad been fairly treated.
Mr. Orogen, Mr. Lloyd Devise. and Mr. Musts having
TheCHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER entered
fete some additional explications, and premised to institute
isqnbies ootoseralag the coatroom alladod to by Kr. White-
OIL _ _ .

Os a divides them appeared—Fcr the 'fleet ememittee,
ageism, 67-18.
; ll.lllanotr was remedies to mem ter a emamittee
es Irish rieberiee, when the home wee masted mat at
twelve °Week.

Mr. Thomas Mustier@ has palpated his motion
lee • select wasautitteo is inquire into the pettiest stow of
the low of erdstie eapyright ; the operation of the eogra.—
lag mad eassiptore eopyright, sad intersational copyrithl
sots; tog/filter with tho eonthations entered into by net
Majesty with various foreign states, sad the orders in than-
fended *MOO, 110 far as the UM relate to !With
wtypyright, with a view to the one*Swoot sod eaosnitdatost
snks agonise esslptars elpyright sir." Tassday
tith.