The Express.
London, England, 1866-07-25 00:00:00

that exelusire akranteges in the perks had been
te any edam of en eeensunity. H.
suggested Creftsik
future each gatherinp had better take place on Primrose.

hilL -
ML.T. S. MILL said that this was no ordinary occasion,
and-it seemed to him that noble lards end honourable
gentlemen opposite were by no means aware of its great
importance, or of the very serious consequences which
might arise from the step which they had taken. He
did not intend to enter into the question as to the right
of the people to meet in Hyde-park. The government had
the opinion of good lawyers that they had a right to ex-
clude the people, but lawyers were not unanimous upon
the point, and he sonM produce well-argued opinions,
based both on legal_ and constitutional grounds, asserting
that the people had a right to meet in the park. He did
not, however, desire to biy any stress upon that circum-
stance. He maintained that if the people had not that
right, they ought to have it. (Hear.) And further, that
if, for reasons which were unintelligible to him, it was ne-
cessary, for the maintenance of some nominal right, that
permission should be asked before such meetings were
held, that permission ought at once to here been
granted. (Hear, hear.) Ten thousand times more ought
it to have been granted when the people believed, erro-
neously though it might be, that they had the right to
assemble in the park, because the factthat theirmin&were
excited upon another subject was the very circumstance
that ought to have warned right honourable gentlemen
that they might reasonably fear the consequences which
had followed, and which he believed that they deplored as
much as anyone. He believed that the public ought to
have the use of the parks for this purpose, because what
other place was there that was kill so convenient?—
[Several Hon. Iburnine—Prinirose-hill)—or where there
would be so little interference with trails! Was there
leas interruption of traffic in 'Prnfalgarequare than in
Hyde-park ; or did a meeting of this sort held once
in two or three years Win one thousandth part of the
interference with the other uses of the park that
was occasioned by a volunteer review? It was obvious
that if such reasons as this were to exclude the public from
meeting in places which must be considered to belong to
them, there were no others for their exclusion from which
much stronger ones might not be urged. Perhaps, indeed,
that was what honourable gentlemen opposite wished.
(Hear, hear.) He fully accepted the assurance of the Home
Secretary that he did not wish it. He believed in the
perfect sincerity of the right hon. gentleman, but he was
not altogether re-mended, because the right hon. gentleman
only said that he had no objection to meetings, at proper
times and in proper places ; but he did not inform the
house what, in his opinion, were proper times and places.
The newspaper scribes of her Majesty's government were
already declaring that no open-air meetings ought to be
tolerated in the metropohs. Let them try to prevent
the holding of such meetings. In that case they would
have to encounter a resistance of a very different kind, and
from very different persons from any that they had yet
met. (Cheers and counter cheers.) Noble lords and right
hon. gentlemen opposite might be congratulated upon
having done a job of work last night the impression of
which it would take wiser men than they, and the lapse of
many years, to efface. It had been and still was the
anxious wish of all those who, while they understood the
age, were likewise lovers of their country, that the neces-
sary changes in its institutions should be effected with the
least possible—and, if possible, without any—alienation or
ill-blood between the hitherto governing chases
and the masses of the people. Her Majesty's
present advisers seemed to be determined that so
far as depended upon them, this hope, this wish, this
anxious desire should be frustrated. (Oh, oh.) They all knew
that there was a kind of people who could do more mischief
in an hour-(cheers from the ministerial benches)—than
all the wisdom in the world could repair in a year. Some
gentlemen opposite seemed to have an honourable ambi-
tion to inscribe their names upon the list of each persons.

(Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I take
for granted that the speech which we have just beard is
one of those which were intended for delivery in Hyde-
park, and it may give us some idea of what will be the
style of rhetoric which will prevail at these periodical
meetings. On the part o: the gentlemen who rat on this
side of the house I would repudiate, and repudiate with
some indignation, the feelings, motives, views, and
policy which the honourable member for West-
minster hes, without any foundation whatever, imputed
to us. (Clx;sra.) No opinions have been expressed on this
side of the house which have not been shared by the
highest authorities opposite. Every one must deplore
what has occurred, but whatever those who are so Fo-
foundly sage after the event may say, I believe that there
is no prudent man who would not have taken the
loco:use which we adopted, and which our predecessors in
office have generously stated that they would have pur-
sued. There can, I think, be no two opinions, except
among gentlemen who desired to deliver speeches in Hyde-
park, that meetings for political or religious purposes
ought not to be held in that locality. In the case of the
parks which have been established in our great towns
within the last few years, the rule always prevails that no
such meetings shall be held within their bounds. The
good sense of the people of England has brought
them to the same oondusion as has been adopted
by the practical men who are responsible for the manage-
ment of the parks in the metropolis. I should not have
risen had it not been for the extraordinary and unjustifi-
able tone of the hon. member for Westminster, for which
the debate has afforded no foundation, and which was
absolutely inexcusable—(" hear, hear," and " no, no")—
but as lam upon my legs I cannot help making a remark
upon the view which appeared to be the foundation o" the
which introduced the discussion. The whole speech
golletehlbon. member for the Tower Hamlets rested upon the
assumption that there was in the notification published by
the government • false suggestion that this meeting would,
if it took place, lead to riot and disturbance. There WILIDO
false suggestion of the kind in that notification. It was
not assumed or believed by those who drew up that
document that riot or disturbance would be occasioned by
those who promoted the meeting or by the working-classes
who attended it. Quite the reverse. We had greet con-
fidence—(a laugh)—in the conduct of the individuals who
had undertaken the management of the meeting, because
other person's behaviour had shown that they would act
with perfect propriety. We were equally certain that the
real working-di:mesa who would attend the meeting would
not be the authors of riot or disturbance. At the same
time, we said to ourselves, that a meeting of this kind was
likely to lead to riot and disturbance, and has it not done
so! I live close to the scene of the disturbance, and at the
present moment I am not sure whether I shall get home
safely to-night, or whether I have a home to go to. There-
fore, I have some opportunity of observing what is taking
place. There was • great many people there, very noisy
and turbulent people, but I will be bound to say that they
do not belong to the working-classes. It was however the
case that where meetings, however honest and honourable
may be their promoters, and however good citizens may be
those who attend them, are taken advantage of by all the
floating scam of a great city to assemble and conduct
themselves ma they did last night. I entirely repudiate
the views imputed to us by the hon. member for West-
minster that we are opposed to public meetings, especially
to those of the working-dames. On the contrary, I look
to public meetings held as my right Bon. friend said, at
proper times and in proper places, as one of our great poli-
find safety-valves. lam far from discouraging them. I
would throw no obstacles in their way. But I believe
that unless they are held at proper times and in proper
places they give opportunities for tumult, riot, and dis-
turbance, and what has occurred proves the soundness of
that opinion.
Mr. OTWAY said he wished to put a further question
to the right hon. gentlemen the Secretary for the Home
Department, to which he hoped be would be able to give
an answer which would be satisfactory to the house. Some
companies of the Guards were called out, as he thought,
very unwisely, for there was nothing more likely to create
• disturbance than • display of military force. It was
stated in a morning paper that the Gouda after entering
the park were ordered to load, and he wished to know
whether there was any foundation for such a report. He
believed that if a patrol had circulated about Park-lane,
the grouping of the people would have been prevented
and the iron railings would not have been destroyed.
In his opinion the course taken by the right hon. gentle-
man was of all others the most calculated to provoke a
riot.
Mr. WALPOLE said he believed there was no foundation
whatever for the report to which the hon. member had
alluded. He might add, that there had been no demon-
stration of the military until the railings were pulled
down.
After observations from Mr. WHALLEY and Mr. RAD-
FIZLD, the subject droed.
The O'CONOR DON called attention to the manner in
which the local authorities had carried out the provisions
of the Prison Ministers Act of 1863, which gave power to
appoint chaplains of different denominations in gaols.
A debate followed, is which Mr. Whalley, Sir G. Grey,
Mr. O'Reilly, Mr. Newdegate, and Mr. Walpole took
part, the latter expressing an opinion that regulations
under the act would have been better made by the execu-
tive than by the magistrates, but urged that in the
majority of cues the intentions of the legislature had
been carried out.
The motion, which would have plede,cl the government
to the immediate consideration of the subject, was with-
drawn.
Mr. GLADSTONE moved for a series of returns relating
to public income and expenditure for the list 200 years,
which were granted.
The Attorneys and Solicitors (Ireland) Bill plumed
through oommittee.
The adjourned debate on the Compulsory Church Rates
Abolition Bill was resumed by Mr. Hubbard. After some
discussion, a motion was made again to adjourn the debate,
which on • division was negatived by 108 to 64.
A motion was then made for an adjournment of the
house, and eventually the debate was adjourned to Wed-
needay, August 1.
The other business wee disposed of, and the house ad-
journed at 20 minutia to 2 o'clock.

itrwaxarstrr r Saar.—Mr. Parsons, a farmer,
of Petbertoo-bridge, in Somerset&hire, having recently lost
160 sheep, Professor Simone yesterday examined the flock,
and found the whole d them suffer* from rindsrpest in
its most virulent form. The local committee bare ordered
the immediate eleaghter of the remaining look, 460. Yr.
Maks, a magie=gupying the next farm has lest 15
rattle. The 46 mere examined by Professor
Ilimonk and their immediate 'lankier wee mimed.