The Express.
London, England, 1866-03-13 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 13, 1866.

to originate a policy, stated that it was twenty years
sines the Reform all had been passed, end he pledged him-
self that if the hio. member for Bast Surrey would with-
draw his station governmeet would itself introduce a re-
farm bill. Tile hoe. member was not satisfied ;he divided
agaisst the government in • thie house sot having much I
Interest in the question, and the government were defeated
by 100 to 52, them beim only 156 members in the home.
Bet that was on the motion for leave to introduce the bill,
one which was utually minted to as a matter of form.
But the hoe. member having carried his motion spinet the
government, the house saw that the matter was pthiug
serious, and as the second readies tee numbers were, for
the bill 83, stalest it 299. (Opposition cheers.)
Mr. ALOOCK rose to exploit', but was immediately called
to order.

edneatione, sad moral condition of the working clews of
the country, tile whole number of the borough eleeVrs
was not more than two-thirds of what it was in 1832
He did rot rifest* ester trio any gaug ugumeet noon
the subject of reform— (hear, hear)—but IN
uprise his be-
lief that on that side of the house then wee •s You °mai-
derable measure of satisfaction with the bill. (" Hese,
bear,* and laughter.) He blow well that that tee Mali wee
not unusual at that girls of the houee---(epposities cheers)
—but as far es he bad bed se opportunity of conversing
with hoe. sosenbere is whose attachment to reform he
confided, he gathered that a cessidereble measure of
satisfaction existed. (" Hear, hear." end " No, no.")
He did not himself consider it perfect, but for different
reasons to those attuned by the hon. member who had
last spoken. He (Mr. Beings) doubted the accuracy of the
right hoe. gentleman's (the Chasosilor of the Exchequer's)
calculations as to the proportion of the working Muses
that new passes the franchise, end that would
possess it if this bill became law. The pro.
prietore of beer-shops and small tradesmen we
re
included in the returns smug the working Maws.
he should
As an instance of the result of this proceeding,
state that the lint return of working men made for the
borough of Wakefield gave the number of 80, whereas in a
subeequent return which included that class, which he con-
tended ought sot to be included, the number was stated to
be 120. The number of working disc electors for the
borough of Oldham was set down as 315, but he was as-
sured by the repregeotat;ve of the borough that not more
than half that number halonged exclusively to the working
classes. He also doubted the accuracy of the calculation
as to the numbers to be admitted by the sholitios of the
rating clauses, sad the clause in the bill relating to com-
pound occupiers. as he believed that a coniederable rrooor-
Mon of them did not belong to the working clause,
strictly speaking. The Chancellor of the Exchequer cal-
culated that if the bill passed there would be
330,000 working clan electors. He (Mr. B ines)
believed that 250,000 would be much surer to the fart.
Notwithstanding the objections that bed bees taken to the
bill he held that there was much that wet very excellent in
it. (Hear, hear.) So far u the extension of the franchise
was concerned he entirely approved of it, but he did not
us that sufficient ground had been shows for receding
from the position with respect to the county franchise
taken up by hoe. gentlemen npposite.and from the decision
of the house when it adopted the propositioe of the hon.
member for Surrey (Mr. L. King). With reference to the
borough franchise, he believed the governmeet might safely
have gone to the extent of a 61. franchise, consistently with
the bill introduced in 1860. The lodger and the savings beak
franchise, the abolition of the ratepaying clauses, sad the pro-
position a to tbe disfranchisement of Misgovernment working
men in the royal dockyards, met with his approval. He
was glad that time would be give, for the consideration of
the details of the bill before the second reading.

-----
Mr. HORSMAN begged his hoe. Mead's pardon. He
was retelling to the speech of the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer. The bill was defeated on the second reading by •
majority of three to one, and yet the Chancellor of the
Exchequer said that it was the determination then shown
by the House of Commons that made the government
iatroduce the reform bilL (Opposition cheers.) However,
the bill of 1852 was introduced in consequence of that divi-
sion. He was n t surprised that his right hoc. friend
should pets over the history of that bill in a very cursory
manner, because it did happen that bye very curious acci-
dent they possessed the secret history of the bill of 1852,
which they were informed was brought in in con-
sequence of the pledge given by Lord Russell.
The house would recollect that Lord Grey ob-
tained permission to state what occurred in the cabinet ;
and his lordship's statement brought to light the fact that
io the cabinet of 1851 there was only one reformer. (Oppo-
sition cheer..) There might have been, perhaps, two or
three reformers, but he (Mr. Seaman) believed that reform
watt represented in that cabinet by a unit. Lord Grey
stated that Lord Russell had pledged himself to reform
without consideration for his oolleagues and without their
oonseut. They were very angry, but although they dis-
approved of the pledge given by their colleague, they
showed more coopidention for him than he bad shown for
them. Arcordiog'y the bill was introduced with a
great flourish of unanimity sod reform enthusiasm,
and as if the reform cabinet thought of nothing
but the bill. (Opposition cheers.) The house might stop
to inquire how a whole cabinet could stoop to accept
• hill of which they disapproved ; but Lord Grey was also
painfully communicative on this point. He had only per-
mission to speak f himself, but he said they knew the
aiSinet w•s doomed. that its days were numbered, sod that
no harm could happen, beam= it would be impossible to
pass the bill. (Opposition cheers and laughter.) Now (coo-
tinned the right hon. gentleman) this was the startingpoint
io the new agitation, which Lord Russell has kept alive
ever since. It has served as the peg on which to hang the
disgraceful end otherwise incredible history of the reform
bill for 13 years; foe, in face, each successive bill was the
work of one man, and tended to the same end. Well, sir, I
need not detain the house by going through the history of
the other hilt 01 the bill of 1854 no minister got permis-
sion to tell the hinny ; bat we know that it was passed
In • re'uctant cabinet, against their united protest,
and amid all the excitement of the Crime= war.
But the house would not have it, the country would not
have it. and the advanced reformists rejected it as
thoroughly worthless. Theo comes the Queen's speech of
1857. Bat although the government were turned out, Load
Palmerton confessed that the bill had not been prepared.
Thee came the bill of the Derby satinet in 1359, which
rather took the liberal party by surprise, and was nearer
legislation than we have been since that time. And it is
only fair to say that regarding the bill itself it was nisi-
venally admitted to be a better bill than any Lord John
Russell's cabinet ever produced. (Cries of " No, no," and
conservative cheers.) But while we are now considering
the past as a guide to the future, I feel bound to speak of
that bill with the same freedom that I have spoken of those
that have emanated from this side of the house, and
the real mistake and the real blot of that bill was
not merely that the country did not want it, but that it
was notoriosely against the feelings sod against the
opinions of the great majority of the party by whom it
was introduced—(cheers, and "No, no")—and therefore it
was that the country lookedealmly on while by an abstract
resolution was inflicted upon it that penalty which was
prompt and signal, and has been enduring. (Loud cheers.)
I do not think it is for the interests of those who intro-
duced the bill too much to recall it to the reoollectioe of the
house. (Laughter and cheers,) The opinion of the country
may be summed up in a single sentence—they did feel,
whether rightly or wrongly, that the opponents of the
Reform Bill on that occasion rather put reform up to
auction, and bad no right to complain if it was knocked
down to the highest bidder. (Laughter and cheers.) Theo
came the-bill of 1860, to which my right hon. friend referred
to-night, and as to which the country, sensibly
alarmed, felt that it had so geospe, for there was
an mpled conjuncture of leaders in its favour.
Lord Palmerston, Lord Derby, Lord Russell, and the
right hos. member for Bucks were all ro deeply committed
to the bill that it passed the mooed reading without debate.
The nation was in despair—(" Oh. oh," and laughter and
cheers)—and its reel and strong feeling made itself known
throughout the house, sad broke out too strong to be re-
sisted. ("Oh, oh." and cheers. )Why, the Housed Commons
rebelled against its leaden. Abandoned by the front
benches, the rank and file stood true to their defences, and,
cheered oo and supported by the public out of doors, they
bombarded the treasury bench with such inexhaus-
tible round shot of rhetoric, that they fairly wore
the government out, and almost Lashed the bill
out of the house. (Loud cheers.) And so the
question remained down to the close of the last session
of parliament. But the history of these bills
would be incomplete unless we borrowed an Musks-
tioe which has been very opportunely furnished
by the hon. member for Birmingham. We have described
the acts of the ministry, but the hon. member for Birming-
ham has given a portrait of the actors, and with retains=
to the bill of 1860, in • letter written in September, is
which he declined the levitation to the reform banquet at
Glasgow, in an allusion to Lord Palmerston, which I need
not reed, he gave this opinion of Lord Palmerston's col-
leagues, who are now sitting on that beech. He said,
" His colleagues preferred their pieces to their honour as
public men--(laughter, and conservative cheer) —and they
consented to the greatest political fraud of our time rather
than leave the treasury bench even for a season."
(Cheers.) Well, now, that is rather strong language.
(Laughter and cheers.) It is a specimen of what termed
the hon, member for Birmingham's pure Saxon.
(Great laughter and cheering.) But is it true?
That is to say, is it true in the sense in whic
lit is to be construed as contrasting his conduct with that of
the minister he denounced? Why, sir, if I made complaint
that ministers had abandoned their creed, that would have
been consistent with me. I have always expressed the
opinion that when they up the bill which brought
them into office they t also to have relinquished office.
But that is not the opinion of the hoa member for Bir-
mingham, and with the circumstances so fresh in my mind
I could hardly believe my eye* when I reed his letter.
What were the circumstances! On the day when Lord
Russell was about to withdraw his bill there was an un-
usual bustle on these benches, and when I came down ex-
Mpg the adjoursed debate to go on, I was told that
Russell had communicated with the hon. member
for Birmingham, and afterward. that it was his icten-1
Sea to withdraw his bill; and it was genera 'se
believed that he had taken weasel with the hon. member
for Birmingham, and was withdrawing the bill by his ad-
vice. But whether that was true or not, most undoubtedly
he withdrew it with the hoe. members's knowledge and
concurrence, because no sooner bad Lord Russell and the
right hoe. member for Books reamed their seats than the
hon. member for Birmingham got up expressly to state his
concurrence in the withdrawal of the bill. He justified
that withdrawal, and for five years afterwards while the
government remained in office he gave them his undi-
minished support, and on the only opportunity that was
offered to him he honoured them with his vote of confi-
dence. (Conservative cheers.) (Mr. Bawer —No.) I can
only say that during those five years I know no
steadier supporter than he was, and undoubtedly
on the vole of omafideece, the great trial of
strength between the parties, be voted in the majority.'
(Cheers.) Now, sir, I ask if they committed the greatest
political fraud known to oar time—(laughter and cheers)
—was he not so accomplice and an abettor of that fraud ?'
(Cheers.) And if they sacrificed their honour to keep their
plane, I ask if be did not, to some extent at least, sacrifice
his honour to keep them in their places? (Loud cheers.)
I do not ask whether it was just, whether it was generous,
I may almost say whether it was seemly, that after the old
agitation, the hon. member should hold that ministers were
not to be made responsible for their acts, and that he
should now coin, on the eve of a new agitation, political
capital at their expense. (Cheers.) But there was
comfort for the ministers in store. The hon.
member for Birmingham can inflict • wound, but
he knows also how to apply the soothing remedy.
This was the picture drawn in Septembe-, but they gave
him another sitting in November, within, three months
afterwards. Then we have another sketch slightly varied.
Hear what he says= the 30th of November : "Speaking of
the administration, which somebody bad said is very much
as it was, I venture to say it is very different, aid I think
I know almost every member of the adrdinistration, and
many of them with that kind of intimacy which comes from
long attendance in the House of Commons, and I can ray
that it is composed—of what ? pledge-breakers, dirhour
able men, who sacrifice their honour to their places? No ;
it is composed of men more entitled to public confidence
than any other administration of our time." (Laughter
and cheer'.) That is portraitter No. 2. But
shthe
wind changes again. ()Laugh.) And itshows
how deeply my honourable friend is in the secrete of the
cabinet, and how be knows the fluctuations at all their
meetings, for within one short month he again changes his
mind, and those dear and intimate friends of whom he spoke
so affectingly—the old whip—he proposes to inter with all
the symbols of national respect in Westminster Abbey.
(Laughter.) As to the speech of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer to-day we shall probably have another change. It
is always varying—to-day black, to-morrow white, and next
day neither black nor white, but dingy grey. From 1852 to
1865 this question of reform bad been agitated under the
most favourable circumstance. ; it had been taken up by
every administration, and supported and relinquished by every
prominent public man. It had three-fourths of the press
and all the patriots of one side or the other in its favour.
It bad public meetings innumerable, and active agitation
founded upon the undisputed fact of 6,000,000 of =en-
franchised operatives. Yet then cabinets were all de-
feated, the ministers more or lees discredited, the bills
were all rejected, the agitation was a failure, and the more
the question was stirred the more vividly apparent it be.

times, determined to come before parliament with another
reform bill, without any allegation whatever of new cir-
convalescee or new strength. There was one novelty, and
one only, connected with this new undertaking, and it was
a chivalrous determination to stand or fall by their intended
bill. I confess I have never been able to see or appreciate
the chivalrous nature of that determination. Sure I am
that the country is determined to have no more trilling
with this question of reform. Sore lam that the country
is sick—heartily sick—of the insincerity and hypocrisy that
have made the very name of reform a scandal and reproach.
(Hear, bear.) I mistake the character and temper of the
new Moues of COMMON if it will suffer another ministry
to trade on the reform cry, and ietroduce and abandon a
bill, and yet to remain glued to the seats of office. (Hear,
hear.) Therefore it was imperative on the government to
stand or fall by their bill. and it needed no wise prophet
to foretell that whether they stead or fall must depend en-
tirely upon the character of the bill. I think the house
will agree with me that there are three great essentials to
the success of any government attempting at this time to
deal with the question of reform. The first is that it
should be a strong government, because Earl Russell him-
self told the deputations that waited upon him that the
passing of a reform bill would be a very difficult matter,
because the opposition to it would be very formidable.
Therefore a bill should only be introduced for the purpose
of being carried. It should be an instrument of legislation,
and not of imitation. (Hear.) The smodtessential ix
that it should be, for a generation at least, a settlement of
' the question. (Hear, hear.) The third is, that a govern-
ment introducing a bill for the settlement of the question,
in the jam of a powerful opposition, should have the
power of appealing to the country by means of a dissolu-
tion. I want to ask the house bow many of thee* mu-
Rale are found or combined in the treasury bench. Now,
let us take them one by one. In the first place, is it a
strong government ? Oo this point I can only apply a
very obvious but a very easy test, to which it is impossible
any member of the government will take the least excep-
tion. I can only compare the present government io point
of strength with the last government which attempted
and failed to carry a reform bill—that of 1862.1a,0f
that government there were no less then ten members of
the cabinet who had 'vita in the) House of Commove. I
Six of them only remained when it was determined to intro.
duce a reform bill. Six remained without one single midi-
lion to their number for weeks after they had announced
their determination to introduce a reform bill, and within a
few days of the meeting of parliament. Four have gone,
and who are they? Were they insignificant men, not
missed and easily spared?? Sir Cornewall Lewis. Lord Her-
bert, and Lord Palmerton were the very Sower of the
cabinet. (Hear, hear.) They, with one or two exceptions.
might have been said to be the cabinet itself. To compare
the cabinet of 1860 with the present cabinet—(laughter)—
the men who were there thee with those who remain, is
almost like tempering a living. sod moving, and sentient
Wog with his own skeleton. (Laughter, and cries of "Oh,
oh.") And when the task in hand was six years ago too
mighty teethe strength of giants, what miraculous virtue do
we find in a now notorionalyeliscordant cabinet! (Hear.)
Now, with respect to the settlement of the question—how
is it to be settled ? And here I must take leave to unde-
ceive my right hon. friend upon a delusion which he showed
he was labouring under along with his colleagues. He raid,
"We have at least done something." But the country
doss not wish you to do something. What the country
wants is that you should settle something—(bear, hear)—
sod if you don't, you are not doing, but undoing. (Hear,
hear.) You are unsettling everything. You are unsettling
the act of 1832: you are unsettling the administration ;
you are unsettling legislation, and the thoughts and
occupations and all the great interests of the country
(Cheers.) I hold there is nothing the government can do
so militates and mischievous se to raise greet banes they
eaenot define, and lee loose s force they cannot guide.
(Hear, hear.) Consider how yon con admit the masses to a
share of political power without giving them the monopoly.
How does my right hoe. friend attempt to settle that ques-
tion ? There is only one mode of satisfactory settlement of
any great controvern, and that is to found your settlement
upon reoegeised and intelligible principles. What is the
principle of your hill? L it the old principle of
the representation of property? Is it the prin-
ciple enunciated the other day at Manchester that
representation and taxed= should go together? Is
it the principle of intelligence advocated by
the hoc. member for Hull? Is it the principle of abstract
right two years ago enunciated rather rashly and withdrawn
hastily by the Chancellor of the Exchequer? It is nose of
them. There is nothing in his speech or in the bill that
we can dignify by the title of principles. It is nothing but
a reproduction of the old state and discredited device of
the first downward movement in the direction of govern-
ment by numbers—(hear, hear) —and he hopes we shall
take it as a bill on that principle. If that is to be the
principle of the bill, I ask what difficulty do you solve?—
what agitation do you silence? Because even the
61, bill of last year was only taken as an
instalment. Then there was a portion of his speech to
which I list/tied with both astonishment and regret. He
said "We do not attempt—we do not profess"—he even
said—and the words coming from him surprised me more
than they would have done coming from any other public
man—be mid, and I took down his words, " Circumstances
are so varying that we must look to the future itself for
proper opportunities to deal with these important subjects."
(Hear, hear.) Now I was sorry to bear the right hon. gen-
times give expression to those opinions, because coming
from him they derive great weight, and they go forth with
great authority. Dealing with circumstances as they now
am and leaving the future to take cam of itself may be a'
very good commercial maxim. It may be a very good rule
upon which to carry on the badness of a large establish-
ment at Manchester, but I beg to say it is not statesman. I
ship—(cheers)—and lam quite sure my right hon. friend,
with all due submission, feels that he has committed him-
self to a dogma which is not only untenable end unsound,
but coming from a ministerial bench is as startling as para-
doxical. (Hear, hear.) There is no doubt we can
only deal with circumstance. of our own session or of
our own parliament and generation • but if we deal
with them as principles they become precedents to the next
generation and we are not leaving them to take care of them-
selves. No doubt circumstances are shifting and variable,
but principles are enduring, eternaL (Hear, hear.)4We
in this house are slaves to precedent, and is it not a mis-
takes principle to light a conflagration for our summon
to extinguish? (Hear, hear.) If the argument of my right
hon. friend is carried out it means this :—that I
every government if it finds itself weak is at liberty to have
a hand-to-mouth policy—to keep things square exactly
for its own time, and to take care of itself, if need be, even
at the expense of its sncoessors. (Hear, hear.) That is the
argument of the Chancellor of the Exchequer carried to its
legitimate result. If that is to be our rule of conduct, I
would suggest to him to advertise for tenders, and I vea-
-1 tare to any that within a given time he will have offers
from more than one joint stock company to carry on the
business of the country—(cries of " Oh, eh.")--on the hand
to month principle quite as well, and much cheaper
than it is carried on now. (Hear, hear, and "oh.')
It is quite evident that gentlemen feel that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer went further than he
intended in enunciating that doctrine. lam rue the right
hon. gentleman, if asked to describe the functions and cha-
racter of an English statesman, would have said he is the
man of all others whose special functions it is not only to
look to the present but the future—the man who of all
others is supposed to have stored his mind with all the
riches of historical truth, political science, and consti-
tutional law, in order to soar higher than other men,
and, so far as the limitation of human faculties allow
it, foretel and oommaed the future. (Hear, hear.)
Our right hon. friend is the very last man from whom I
ahould have expected such an apology, because although we
know that in some foreign governments a minister of state
is milt separated from the herd of politicians by the fussy
consequence of office and the arrival of quarter day, no one
knows better than my right hon. friend that that is not
our measure of an English statesman directing the destinies
of his age. He knows that we place him on a loftier
pedestal—we try him by a higher standard—we gift him
with a higher vision and a nobler inspiration—and while in
his own time we honour him as a guide and example, it is
for after generations to pay the real tribute to his worth,
and bless him as • benefactor. (Hear.) But I wish the
house to observe the inconsistency of my right hon. friend.
Sue how differently the Chancellor of the Exchequer deals

Captain GROSVENOR expressed regret that his first
Tieing in the house should have called for a remonstrance
from the leader of the opposition. He begged to apologise
to the chairroari, to the house, and to the hon. gentleman
(Mr. Baines), for the want of courtesy of which be had been
unwittingly guilty. (Hear, bear.) He should have been
loth to trespass upon the indulgence of the house
were it not that he represented a great constituency
which was always notorious for its attachment to reform.
In the course of the month of February he listened with
great interest to two preliminary discussions upon this
subject, end be derived an impression which had that
evening been more strengthened than otherwise. It bad
strnok him that many hon. members in that house did not
appreciate the position in which this question stood before
the ociuntry, for they bad taken noon themselves to support
a reform bill which should raise the people and not floor the
ministry—which should admits portion of the working els sees
and not admit right hooonrable gentlemen opposite to
official residence in Whitehall. (Laughter.) Hoo. gentle-
men were aware that this question bad been before parlia-
ment in some definite form or another for 14 years ; but
they did not seem to appreciate the fact that during that
time the position of it before the country had been mate-
rially changed, for prior to ten years ago the discussions
were confined more oriels to the statesmen upon eecb side of
the houre; but doring the last lOyears, in oonsequence of the
educational progress in the country, this question bad
become the study of the people, and an extension of the
franchise had been demanded in a firm and determised, bet
moderato spirit. (Cheers.) It had been said by right hon.
gentlemen opposite that there was no agitation in the
country, but there was an agitation, though carried on in
an orderly and peaceful manner. (Cheers.) While
Lord Palmerston was alive there were reasons personal
and political why the people should acquiesce
in the temporary postponement of their claims ;
but now that there was no danger likely to arise
from our foreign politics, and that it had pleased the sove-
reign of the realm to call into existence a government
pledged to reform, it would be highly dangerous and im-
politic to trifle with the question any longer. (Hear, hear.)
Although the measure might not satisfy all the political
aspirations of the people, yet it showed them that they
were not for ever to be excluded from political power.
(Hear, hear.) He was not sure that the met-
eors propounded to-day was the beet that could
have been deviard—fronical cheered-4111 he should
cordially support it (reamed ironical cheers)
because he thought it fairly embraced the chief points of a
long promised concession, and he would remind the house
that there was no greater advantage to achieve than that of
re-establishing the confidence of the people, which had been
impaired by • long Dowse of promises lightly broken and
pledges wholly unredeemed. (Cheers.)
Mr. 1110P.SHAN—There was one subject of sincere eon-
gratulation which had come home to them that
evening for at last they had the long expected
reform bill of the government, which was ex-
tremely satisfactory to the more advanced reformers.
The boo. member for Leeds had oome before them in a
hopeful state of mind because the government had repro-
duced his single barrelled bill, which would not go off last
session—(bear, bear)—and he had accepted the measure of
the government as a settlement of the question. The hon.
gentleman had, however, very much mistaken the arguments
of the hon. member for Wiok (Hr. S. Laing), for that hoe.
member did not say that there were no anomalies in OUT
representative system, but what he did env was, that much
greater anomalies existed in reference to the representation
of boroughs than as regarded the amount of the franchise ;
and he also reminded the house that the government were
proposing to deal with the smaller anomalies first, and
therefore, instead of settling they wen in fact unsettling
the whole question. (Cheers.) But he (Mr. foreman) did
not intend to enter into the provisions of this measure. The
Chancellor of the Exchequer had reminded them of the
paragraph in the Queen's speech, sod of some former para-
graphs of a similar character, and he had told them that
this was an historical question which was asso-
ciated with obligations evaded and with the defalcathion
of former cabinets. with royal speeches that mocked
the nation and with parliamentary pledges which
betrayed their constituents, end in reference to which
there had been so much failure end as to which there
had been great discredit incurred. The right bon.
gentleman bad spoken in • tone partly reproach-
ful of the House of Commons not having re-
deemed its character or fulfilled its obligations,
which bad been too long diagracefully delayed. (Cheers.)
He should not follow his right bon. friend throngb his
statistics, but confine himself to the constitutional ques-
tion. They were not dealing with details, but with prin-
ciples ; let them first settle the principles, sod the details
could then be discussed in their proper place. He should
begin by dealing with that portion of his right hon. friend's
speech in which he defended the government for interfering
with the question at all. The retrospect of hie right hon.
friend was most valuable, as enabling them to take a
survey of the history and character of this measure, and
seeing whether it was a fair and well-o ,naidered pro-
posal, free from the vim of its abortive predeoessors,
and one commending itself to the country as an
honourable and intelligent attempt to settle the
question; or whether, divested of the rhetorical embellish-
ments of his right hon. friend, it was neither more nor leas
than another bid for power, another promise made only
to be broken, another hope raised only to be
dashed to the elrouncl, another in that long eerie@ of poli-
tical frauds and parliamentary juggles so transparent as to
become instead of an honour and a success, merely an exhi-
bition of weakness, incapacity, and hypocrisy. (Oh, oh.) His
righthoo. friend began by a reference to the history of the
What did that history remind them of ? Five times
MiL the lips of royalty been stained with a delusive pro-
mise, and five times had a minister given • pledge which he
did not fulfil. If was very true, very sad, and very discre-
ditable, but, to the minister, not to the Hones of Com-
mons, which was never a party: to these pledges, was not
bound to whitewash a ministry of whose acts, whenever
there was an opportunity, that Imam disapproved. And
when his right hon. friend told them that no less than four
cabinets were committed to reform, he forgot to explain
that although not nominally the same ministry. Lord
Russell was • prominent member of all four cabinets, that
he, and be only, insisted on these bills, and that they were
introduced, not to meet the exigency of the nation, but the
exigency of a partied's minister. nay, that all these bills
were opposed both to the opinion of parliament and the sense
of the country. (" Ob," and opposition cheers.) That made
an important differentia, there was agreatdifference between
four ministries supporting a bill, and one minister in four
cabinets insisting on its necessity. But his right hon. friend
had said that parliament, not the ministry, were responsi-
ble for origineting and compelling the action of govern-
ment. How did he prove that? He said that in 1851
there was • discussion and a division on the bill of the bon.
member for East Surrey, that in that division Lord
Russell was defeated, and that in consequence of that de-
fest the House of Commons forced ministers into legisla-
tion on the measure. His right hon. friend inferred that
affierefore the House of Commons, and not the ministry,
was responsible. He thought he .ta'ed the OM fairly,
this much at ell events wee certain, that his right hon.
friend said that all the attempts at legislation
originated in the motion of the hon. member for
East Surrey. end on which the government was defeated.
Lord Russell being the only minister who opposed it.
This, then, was the foundation of all the subsequent action
of the government ; and if he (Mr. foreman) showed that
that foundation was rotten, all the superstructure must
come crumbling to the ground. He would advise his right
hon. friend that whenever be made a statement the founda-
tion of • great speech he should verify the facts for him-
self, and not take them from a clerk or a secretary, because
the omission of such a precaution that night had led hie
right boo. friend into one of the most serious blunders he
(Mr. foreman) had ever known tobecommitted by a pro-
minent public man. What were the facts? The bill was intro-
duced by the bon, member for East Surrey ehut Lord Russell.
whospoke in the debate, so far from allowing the hon. member

with a question he really understand' and really loves—
how differently he deals with finance. Why is he tor-
turing his brain and straining his faculties to reduce the
national debt! Not, sir, to meet the requirements of a

4:neoPuLla.,:reoPc'e Irouesenedial ",pelibut mused.waresb"smal a eisti:l:rialts:;
that the peeteseed Amapa were see sailed to the • Pletimilar sermon i% a Imilleciar radiomen% er a Pertimder 44alre Amer is hod and weeder is heath then them is LABOURING CLASSES' DWELLing my,
eras
weals end tamper ese the time- (Cheers.) And the cream gtheretion, because we know eery well that the Metre. pleas who anted se iseendiaries. (Chun sad cries of Mt. CHILDERS, ie moving the meow "`"le
try, watching, listeeing, reading, judging, was brought meats of our own time would rather lead us to keep the " oh.") Bat the agitation failed-foiled ridieolusly, 104 mad owe tee reallig ef ge,
slowly but sorely to the eouvictiou that these changes were money in our own pockets sad hand over to another gees. ' failed igertinisiously, sad as the unwelcome truth broke on moot to mom tesb.........wasttatrgitlrable the ma....-"?
not founded in reason, that they were opposed to justice, ratios the dabs we have inherited; but in inure the right those popular leaders of the platform that they were with. Loos commhmienum -147,-theaa......_ Jae "ip=
end Hoer, hear.)
that they wove fetal to the growth of liberty. (oe, A, hoe. gramma does look forward. It is his shady ;itis ' eat ezmution the most unpopular section of the political for tit, „dam doieme. It W 7,4 "s
Tbat they wore the creed of a small his pride and ambition. Upon Somme be intends to ! community-that they were discredited, that they were
and Deis, section-(seghter)-of politicians of extreme opi• found a repetation, and therefore ia flumes be is distreeled, that they were shunned-why, thee, sir, their poem 0, that won momitable o,_ .___ use ewe 0.,_
nice who °bleated en amddental sad misehievoes importance maul. winsesentioce, logical, and fareesieg. But as to ' demands for a larp end comprehensive reform dwledled mid ohemetm. of the btu wee eieZilatu• meef(ma ii;
from gibe fact that the two peak political Parties is the redertn, that. for a mind hike his. lea mere hustings ne I dwindled down, "oseallbydegreesendbeautifullyless."ungl
state w so vesly balanced that rival chiefs vied with creation. He only began to think of it, se we koow, gr
aph climax of their discomfiture being reached by that posse 1 set hem snarl in indent With _ hist
each other inibidding foe the support of that small wino. namely two years age. (Laughter.) It was • sudden ' in the Queues speech, they were reedy, lake my boo. , there was pewee &heady pug them la. ,r_ ligi. lis%
•ty. (Oh, oh, and cheers.) But the general intelligence, freak two years ego. It is almost like that visit we have trend the member for Leeds, to express their unbotroded . otmo womanise &whor. eog Me •" set of van,
I..ght sod education of the country, the morality, the read of of the casual to • workhouse. (Laughter.) He sew i satisfaction fee snythieg, however unpalatable it was in ; tended it There t lge en
statemnaaehip, the patriotism of even WOOS from the Hetes% the dark, muddy pool before hen, be plunged beadloug is, I quality, however infinitesimal in Quantity, which the 1 oommita,,, et woo would thtt some ameadasege le
to the lowest. clung with icatinetive fervour to thee institn. and he bas been soiled and shivering in questionable corn- genuity of the government might goyim to prose their fans ; 4 per peat, sad the repayments spreeg 30 he het at
the capital in that tim•P"due
tires which they sew approached with an uefriendly hand, piny ever shwa (Laughter.) Now, I think that it will .by enabling them to boast, in the consolatory, words of their! hog been loom thee that worm involve oo.,..Yeelle__, :WY
and with on will and one voice forbade that that old be admitted that thisgoverement is not strong. It has been ' never.failiog friend the Chancellor of the Exchequelt that lei isi per coot op the capitol kat it hog bash MYStee
tree of English liberty-(ales ri "Gb, oh," and cheers)- admitted also that there is no attempt at a settlement of they had at least done something. (Laughter.) well, I ; that such property did not pay more than 3 rWrweets4
which had been the slow growth of ages sod the admire• the question. In a few words I will deal with the question . bare treated this metiers at a gnernment measure, but we it wee proposed that the per Net. ma
von of satires should be transformed into the burnt image of dissolution. Nothing mu justify the dissolution all know that it la a government measure only by courtesy, Ile 40 isaweaOf 30 years. whiett's%"7:o774 o, --1.
of the bill of the bon. member":
of ignorance and intolerance which the worshippers of of parliament on any particular question except the um , teat, however the finishing-op may fall short, e original 1 mot Nod repay
T sitlantio equality wanted to set up. (Loud cries of , meetly of ascertaining the opinion of the country upon it, i conception end designers not,of Downingetreet, but of,Bno.ir-
Tofhetfil'rslit obi:PM:to ditEhaetrellbi6ll was its
shat ss.th:
~
"Oh, oh," and cheers.) Thtt is my answer to one conch'. ! with some hope that the response of the country will be 1 miogham, and it is to the hon. member for Birmingham
purchase the dwellings eider compulsory
sloe that might be drawn from the historical portion of favourable to the government in office. (Hear, hear.) But 1 that they owe.their origin. (Cheers, and cries of
would cost much more than the teal value of ---.
the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that this ' the natioual opinion n reform hes been unqueetioe ably as- no.") There is sot &Than in this house who does not knor
question had been five times recommended from the throne; ! Pertained on two most recent magus. The dissolution of I that it is the hoe, member for Birminghae, be the spell
thno.wouoidylfiabharovoilee
ittoorhothsompay:tolt.iroahouren.ghidawopmeibblyeeabb,abylubaed rLaees
bauborreottiami..7
and undoubtedly be might say with truth that there is no :1859 was expreesly on reform, and the new parl ament thrown over Earl Busaeli, who has been the ruling sprit
white the charge on the locality would be sevitell'
previous instance, at least, in our time, of any question being refused to legislate. (Hear, bear.) Again at the close of of this movement, and it has been a revival of the old
five times recommended from the throes and not peening the last session of parliament the member for Leeds (sr. battle that has been going oe for fourteen years-
into an act (Laud cheers.) But what is the ration ? ' Baines), by his U. bill, on the eve of • dimolution, put a the honourable member for Birmingham and Earl Russell
If it was their object to discourage perem'f"
The reason is obvious. There ism previous instance of I very strap g screw on liberal members ; but they, with !against the majority of the cabinet andspinst the ountry.
dwellings that wore Millepede they n'ill
any ministers five times pressing upon their sovereign sad I vitione of the beatings before their eyes, laughed at hit screw . (Chean, and " No, no.") Everybody knows what has been
have the power of compelling publrrblid --to t.-j-i
arge number of houses, which wouldibe a We
gorp,k—"""
the parliament an important question which wee opposed to • and demolished his bill-(laughter)-and of all the liberal the ascendancy of the hon. member for Birmingham, and el Mew under .....,__ ey should sot •
oese---ves re powers, soda f Damen'
the well uoderstood feeling and interest
wands, nation. 1 members who assisted at that praiseworthy work of demo- lute this ascendancy hes been so ostentatiously sod so
On all former occasions great satirical de founded lake I cannot put my finger en one who lost his seat on am alarmiegly displayed that it has created a very profaned
on rogue and Justice. prevailed over Darrow, selfish, sad j count of that bill. (Hear, heir.) But, thedivestere that betel eseeation in the country, and it bas created a sensation in pollnenuy as well ee fiseeoielly. inunincb, b
exclusive interests ; but in this case the national demand I those enlightened and independent liberals who voted for the liberal ranks both above and below the gangway. The was patent that many dwellings weir I all • "4".1114
was to be left alone, and it is Berl Russell that is to be the bill may be told by scores-(laughter)-and they fell question has been asked dull the last three weeks by libe• ee to become eetemoes, power thet-0-ci b: .r Turk serk
warned and after the houses had been inspected,- a ""'
treated with uampled patience and forbearance, which most grievously on the bench immediately behind me,among ral memben, one of soother, What are the priaceples and
~.. down tied erect other, at a cost not Piet; roPidl thlll
happily are et last exhausted. iChem.) Now, one would what may be tensed the body guard of the hoe. member for aims and titles! to ourr,
confidence and support yr the mot tow,. Persons having ma beadles-3 'lwaoto ybt.
suppose, with thou facts and this experience before us, Binniegbam. His favourite aide-de-camp was swept away, the new ruler that Lord Russell has determined
that the government might have been deterred from spin and had it not been that my hon. friend the member for to set over us ?" The question bee been asked, in the Asp, el a court,
after a judicial .bv. ba,„,d
taking up this question ; but nevertheless Berl Russell Rochdale fortunately survived the fray, the great repub- "Do we endorse his principles ;do we support his projects ; have power to undeme them. If thet hoe.lt„,
ed his colleagues, who have already broken down four leen !melee wotild.have lost even his trumpeter. (Laughter.) is,hs really the right and proper person to reform our in- Finsbury cosseuted, the goveremeet would meets -*
. - .. . . _ -- • -A ren we safely tie- his guidance?„ On • - • -- - -- -- !I...tithe

. -
Theo. I ask, what more can the government want with
dissolution? Dissolution bas already shown that the fur-
ther a member goes in reform the more precarious becomes
his seat —(allaugb)—and another dissolution, under the pre-
sent circumstances, would not only be uoconstitutional, but
let me tell my right, hon. friend it would be suicidal. 1
(Opposition cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—No, no.
Mr. HORSMAN—It is barely possible that some old and
feeble politicians might have been prepared, in their des-
peration. to play the game of pirates, and to set fire to the
ship before they left it; but no minister with the future
before him woeld dare to offer such an affront to the
country, for the country would place snob a mark upon
him as one decade of years would not be sufficient to efface.
One would suppose that these three essentials, viz., the
strength of the government, the settlement of the question,
and the legitimate power of dissolution—might have de-
terred the government from impaling themselves on this
question of reform. But there is • fourth essential which,
according to Lord Russell, the Chancellor of the Exchequer,'
the hon. member for Sirmiogham, and the hon. member'
for Leeds, and all who attempt to legislate or sgitate on
the question, is more vital than all the others combined.
That is some strong public opinion out of doors, the
certainty of an irresistible popular support without
which they one and all said that any ministry
attempting to deal with the question would be
highly censurable, and would be so helpless that in the
phrase used by my right hon. friend, they would only make
themselves ridiculous. (Hear, hear.) Remember the re-
mutable words io which Lord Russell recorded his desire
forsgitation when he said the next administration attempt-
ing to deal with the question mast be supported by a popu-
lar breeze, not only sufficient to carry it through the House
of Commons, but strong enough to carry it over the bee
of the House of Lords. But when Lord Russell and
the Chancellor of the Exchequer laid their heads together
last autumn there was no indication of a popular breeze.
Lord Palmerston had left the country in a profound calm. It
was contented and prosperous at home ; it was at place
abroad. He wee a statesman who had deeply studied the
English character, and English institutions. He knew that
it was the first law of political life that we should govern
by the voice of the educated majority. (Hear, hear.) His
keen sastacity had told him that the educated majority. in
England were in favour of tranquillity, and era of egitation.
(Cheers.) He had bequeathed to his successors the ex-
staple of his wisdom and its fruits. He had a parliamen-
tary majority recently obtained at the elections go con-
siderable that wisely employed it would have secured his
successors a strong and enduring parliament. (Cheers.)
Now, under these circumstances, one would have thought
that the path was so plain before them that
no amount of folly could have led them astray ;
but in an evil hour, and my hon. friend will excuse me
for saying so, they summoned the hon. member for Bir-
mingham to their oouncils—(laughter)—and if he gave
them the same advice in private which he afterwards re-
peated on the platform, and circulated by his organ through
the provinces, he would appear to have guaranteed the
breeze that was to carry the Reform Bill over the bar of
the House of Lords. (Laughter.) He must have told
them that the calm which Lord Palmerston bequeathed was
artificial and deceitful, that it was only the precursor of
the storm, that reform was not dead, but dormant, that it
pervaded the whole nation, that the teenage of the
ooustry were dangerously pent up, and that the people
only waited for the speedy return to power of that great
, moister, reverentially termed the father of reform, who
' had already been the benefactor, and was destined spin to
be the eaviour of the nation, which was on the brink of re-
volution, and could only be saved by • single-barrelled re-
form bill. (Laughter.) If any man had gone to Lord Pal-
merston and talked such nonsense tohim as that the country
was bursting for reform, be would have been laughed out
of the room. (Laughter.) We remember what Lord
Palmerston said on the buntings, in answer to
Kr. Roweliffe, who asked, " Why have you not
Introduced a reform bill?* " Why," said Lord Pal-
mentors, " bosom we were not such geese." (Laughter.)
Lord Palmentoo's colleagues received that answer both as
a witicism and as a compliment. (Renewed laughter.)
That answer was characteristic of Lord Palmerston. It
went straight to the understanding of every English.
man. (Laughter.) It told more than volumes of writing,
or hours of speaking could have done. Lord Palmerstoe's
most striking characteristic was sound, strong, maaculiae
English common sense—(hear)—which we all know, for the
guidance of men, or the management of parties, is infinitely
more valuable than all the other gifts and qualities com-
bined, that a minister can possess. (Hear, hear.) Lord
Palmerston would never have been weak enough to have been
persuaded that Englishmen would be governed by Lancashire
—(hear, bear)—or that the English party would be domi-
neered over by the hon. member for Birmingham. (Hear,
hear.) But the man who would have been a pigmy in the
bands of Lord Palmerston was a giant in the hands of his
secoessor. (Laughter.) Lord Rummell at once fell into his
toils, and was easily persuaded that he was the idol of an
adoring nation, with a !lessee-directed mission to the ful-
filment of which be was to be guided. The die was gest,
• large and comprehensive reform was to be the cry, agita-
Bee wee to be the means, the wise and tranquil policy of
Lord Palmerston was to be reversed, and the days of
truce and compromise were over. It was to be
the ruin of the majority of moderate liberalism
behind the Treasury benches. The real liberal party. was
no longer to be found there where formerly it was associated
with names of historic renown in great perty conflicts and
liberal triumphs. The true and trusted liberals were mainly
fob" found below the gang-way—(laughter)—in that minute
section which acknowledges the leadership of the hon. mem-
ber for Birmingham, and only his nominees were to be
preferred as the heirs and occupiers of that bench,
and the future governors of England. (Laughter.)'
The cry was to be, " Agitate, agitate, agitate."
It was proclaimed trumpet-tongued by all their organs ;
simultaneously and together in every town and every dis-
trict ; petitious, addresses, deputations, leagues, and all the
machinery of turbulence were put in requisition. The boo.
member for Birmingham was himself to rush into the pro-
vinces, "to ride the whirlwind sod direct the storm"—
(cheers)—and when the giant spirit of the nation was
fairly roused, when this great council of the rulers of the
nation was graciously to consider how they would be
pleased to carry out the redistribution of power which
we are aasembled this night to discuss, we know
how that plan was intended to be carried out.
We remember, after those two first mouths of democratic
delirium, before the bubble of their popularity burst, how
the instruments of the government spoke, bow they wrote,
how they babbled, blustered, and crowed of how those
benches on the opposite side of the house were to be cleared,
and bow these were to be purified. (Hear, hear.) Why,
sir, democracy was upon us ; for two months we had a fore-
taste of its sweets, a foreshadowing of its delights, and
little was left for the imarination to conceive of the sort of
liberty to be left to this hones when those new patrons of
liberty were enthroned in peewee (Cries of "Divide,' and
opposition cheers.) I observed that there was one topic
usually urged on these occasions, which the Chancellor of
the Exchequer most carefully avoided to-night. We were
generally told to remember the advantages of legislating in
a calm, and I certainly was surprised to find to-night
that that advantage was not dwelt on by my right hon.
friend. Could it be that he found that some, at least, of
his old colleagues had not availed themselves of that ad-
vantage ? There were some of them who during that agi-
tation, by the countenance and favour of the bon. member,
for Birmingham. did not scruple to assist in letting loose
the furies of agitation and the demons of disturbance. It
was in their name and on their motion, as their
auxiliary and ally, that the bon. member for Birmingham
went down as their plenipotentiary into the provinces to
lash the people into fury with a recital of imaginary wrongs
and fabricated grievances. (Cheers.) And, sir, if we have
not had to-day what was threatened in more than one
ministerial organ—if we have not had 1831 revived—if we
have not bad the excitement of Birmingham, the burning"
of Nottingham, and the riots of Bristol—if the Chsncellor of
the Exchequer, under a pressure he could not resist, has not
submitted to our acceptance to-night a very different bill in
a very different tons as that of a master who has a power
at his command that we should do well not to brave, and
if the hon. member for Birmingham himself, who would
then have towered as a dictator over the government, has
not been enabled like a second Cromwell to stamp his foot
and cry to the refractory members, "Get you gone, you
are no longer a parliament. Lord Russell has no longer any
. . . .

his bill ;You'd also a second time sad he uhf
to a select committee. He did not propene that %lab
mot bill should be so referred.
Sir M. RIDLEY asked whether it weed sot b si,
visable to engraft the powers o the Local Govsniessethg
cm this lOU
Mr. POWELL tholight it would be convenient la ob
print the bill, so that the alterations should he Wort lig
boom.

thitutions,. and can we saielj saispt .._. tut
this point, however unpalatable it may be to some gentle.
men on this aide of the house—l am speaking in the pre-
mime of the hon. member for Birmingham, and I am speak-
hug with the certainty that be will follow me in this dis-
cussion. (" No, no." from Mr. BRIGHT.) I am going to
I rive my honourable friend something that he will reply
to. I am told that even now we ate not to
have any declaration of his opinions from my
boa. friend the member for Birmingham • bat if the house
will give me its attention for ten minutes, and if he will
give me his attention, I will venture to say that I will place
something before the booth which I think he will reply to.
I do not deny that the hoe. member for Birmingham sin-
cerely desires the changes he advocates ; I do not doubt
that ; but I am about very briefly to show that he
does not desire them in the sense in which we desire ,
them—namely, with a view of reforming, strengthesioul
and perpetuating what we admire and value. (Cheers.)
In England the title of reformer is only understood in
one sense, as that of a man who is honestly sod 'World, an
adherent, a friend, and an upholder of a form of government
which he wishes by reforming it to render more perfect and
enduring. But if a professing reformer is a paselosate ad-
mirer of republican institutions, it be °peaty avows that our
English institutions are faulty on those points in which they
differ from the republican institutions—and that the
changes which he would make should be after the mode,
and in the direction of gradually but inevitably mak-
ing them republican, sad it he publicly depreciates and
decries not the defects is our English form of government
itself, in those very speeches in which he unfolds the
changes and the reforms be advocates—why, if this be the
case, sir, and 1 do not know that any man in the house will
be bold enough to contradict me, be cannot be a sympa-
thiser with oar views, he cannot honestly co-operate with
oar objects—he approaches the task not in the spirit of
reform but of revolution ; be is not a friend but an enemy of
the institutions which he sets himself to change. (Cheers.)
Now, air, in a few moments I will enable
the lions, to judge out of his own mouth whether the
hon. member for Birmingham does sot fall under this
disqualificatioe, and on this point I promise the gentlemen
behind me I shall be extremely brief. What 1 DAY to
state will be very short and very conclusive. It happened
that at the time the Derby cabinet was in aloe the ad-
vanced reformers determined to have a reform bill of their
own, and at a reform conference, at which the hop.
member for Hull was in the chair, various resolu-
tions wove moved and seconded by honourable mem-
bers of this house, sod among them it was moved
by the hon. member for Sheffield that the hon. member
for Birmingham should prepare and take charge of a re-
form bilL He accepted that commission. He prepared
his bill and explained its provisions at a merles of pahrts
meetings in the provisoes, but principally in the large
tows of the north of England, and in explaining the bill
he expounded his own views and principles on reform. He
said he had been very much attacked sad misrepresented
by the newspapers; that they said be was going to email
the monarch y sad the House of Lords, and it was
to vindicate himself from that imputation that he made •
speech to which lam going to refer. Itishould be remem-
bered that these speeches were made is an official character
as the representative of those who had asked him to prepare
the bill, and they were afterwards revised by himself for pub-
'footle°, and therefore they are the most authoritative,
the mart literal, sad the most solemn declarations
of a public political faith which any Eaglishmaa
could make in the face of the country. The honourable
gentleman then read extracts from Mr. Bright's
speeches respecting the crown, the House of Lords, sad
the House of Commons, and proceeded :—W hot becomes
of the free constitution? How far are we removed from a
republic? Why, sir, if there be any meaning in words and
force in language, the political principles of the member
for Birmingham—l doe% presume to judge his persons' sad
individual feelings—but I say his political principles as
publicly propounded in the face of his countrymen are the
principles, not of an Eaglishman, but of an alien. He is
not a believer in the British constitution. He most be as
thorough going a republican as President Johnson himself.
(" Ob, oh ; ' and opposition chem.) And this is the mod-
deutial adviser of the head of the cabinet—the director of
his policy, and, inasmuch as Lord Russell is prime minister,
the director of the liberal party. That liberal party, only
six months ago, followed -Lord Palmerston as its leader.
Is it to be supposed that the liberal party has no care foe
its character, for its consistency ? It is a greater change
of policy than has ever, in our time, followed the trans-
fer et governments from one front bench to another ;
it is as complete a political revolution as could be 'coml.
plished. But it has not been accomplished—l do not think
it is likely to be accomplished. But the nation bas bad a
great escape. The death of Lord Palmerston brought on a
very serious crisis. Two months ago the member for Bir-
mingham had apparently the command of the situa-
tion ; every moment of the noses was fraught
with peril ; but at the opening of parliament, when ,
members had an opportunity of meeting and conferring
together, the danger panned away, for no sooner had mesa.'
bees oompared the situation that owe a/secet universal
feeling pervaded the house, which will be known on the,
second reading, if ever we come to a wend reading. (A
laugh.) And now, sir, let me say—("Oh, ob," "Time,"
and cheers)—l do not admit that true sod trusted
liberals sit only below the gangway, but what I do say is.
that Dow this most imminent peril is over it is for the liberal
party calmly to reconsider its position and duties as to the
future. It has seen that a succession of whig ministers have I
been driven by the necessities of their po'itios to give a small
minority of extreme opiaioniate an importance utterly
dim ' nate to their nimbus is this house, or to
th r influence out of it ; and the consequence is that the
whole liberal party, against its convict:thaw and still mare
against its interest, has been drifting towards democracy.
Nothing could be more unfortunate tads character ; nothing
more fatal to its stability, as many liberals of oderate
opinions are now beginning to discover. (No, no.) Two
gentleman say " No, DO." (Loud cries of "No, no," and
laughter). We have now before us the peeped of a suc-
cession of short governments sad frequent dissolutions, all
tending to that confusion which every moderate man must
deprecate as meet surely contributing to the themdeecy of
extreme opinioes. Therefore it is that in my heart
I believe that much of the future of England must
depend on the spirit with which this new House of Com-
mon.' realises and rises to this charge of its first and most
responsible duty—(edieers)—end 111 tell my right hon.
friend what that is—to vindicate the supremacy of conati-
ttheal opinioes ; to spurn the dictation of wn 'intolerant
minority ; to make it the first condition of the occupancy
of that bench that the ministers of the crown shall be men of
unquestipnable attachment to the principles sod the policy
that arecdothply implanted in the convictions and cherished
in the hearts of educated Eoglishmen ; those principles of
freedom which have been too successfully defended spinet
the encroachments of monarchs and the passions of multi-
tude' to be now surrendered at the feet of a more ignoble
tyranny—(laughter)—that policy of sound and peaceful and
constitutional program which has bithertorefiected thegrow-
log intelligence of the nation, and can only be resisted or
fatally driven back by the successful machinations of
those who would trade alternately on the weakness of
ministers they despise, and on the presumed igoorence of
the masses, whose contempt for the abortive agitation of
the last four months has troved how deeply sensible they
are of the blessings of the institution under which they
live, and that they have become too enlightened to be de-
luded, and too distrustful of demagogues to be betrayed.
(Opposition cheers.)
Mr. LOWE moved the adjournment of the debate.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there
could be no objection to the adjournment under the present
circumstances of the discussion, but it was exceedingly de-
sirable the debate should be proceeded with this evening.
If his boo. bleed the member for Kilkenny would postpone
the motion of which he bad given Defies, he would under-
take to provide him with an opportunity for bringing his
motion forward.
Sir J. GRAY said that if the right hon. gentleman
would undertake to find him a night before the second
reading of the Reform Bill he should be happy to give way.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed to
do so, and
The debate was accounted adjourned till this day.
SUPPLY.
The report of the committee of supply was brought up
and agreed to.
MUTINY BILL.

TM CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Rid Ilus
would be no objectioe to that emus ; but that, rlb
result hill had a digerati seope, it was desirable 4lea.
seed with it. The two hills were quite distiliat is this

I[r. Y. TORRENS told ha choodally adopted tie le►
pawl to rotor his bill to a *elect committee.

, __....--.
Hr. KINNAIRD observed that sot osly the rodevpdh
bat the whole country was backlog forward to there*
lof the bill.

Mr. MORLEY expressed a Lope that the mom*
would advance the neoeseary funds under the tall Maio
rate than four per oast,

Sir M. FAX4IIHAR thought that the govenamil
ought to be referred to a select committee, irhe
have the MIIIIIIO/0 proposed by the hoe. member to Hui
r. bury before them.
AYBTON odd the people could build beam let
themselves better thee the House of Commons add by
them for their use.

Mr. ARROYO aid his experiesee was that the ell.
of buildinp for the people wee set a profitable opeethis
He expressed his einesse e►tisfaotioe that the gereowil
had gives more thaw a positive anent to the measure his
the house. Out of the two mesons ► very wept* as
could be framed.

Mr. LOG/LE said the priociple of the bill was eleitlys‘
mined. It would be absolutely steensiry that tien
should be some intervention on the part of the gemmed
in order that navy wretched abodes should be Wield
rad others of a more suitable character erected.
The motion foe the snood reeding was agreed to.

need of yon"—(ministerial odes of " Oh." and "Question")
—if all this has not °penned tonight, it is not to the
colleagues of my right hoo. friend that we are indebted for
our escape, but to the good sense and the loyalty of those

SUPPLY.—REPORT.
The report ci the committee was brought up, and M
resolutions were agreed to.
THE ARTISANS' AND LABOURERS' DWELLING!
RILL

Oo the motion of Mr. foitimrs, this bill tar mai a
emood time, and ordered to be referred to a aged comsdalas

This bill was read a third time and pawed, the Chancellor
of the Exchequer informing Mr. D. Griffith that is future
the bill should be printed, and should be accessible to hon.
members.

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