The Express.
London, England, 1858-02-20 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 20, 1858.

Mg to that expression of feeling on the part of the tainiater
of France ; and I cannot understand bow the position of the
government has improved, while it cannot be end that those
who under previous chrumetsnors bad supported them are
estoppel from effacing any criticism on their conduct because
ten days ego they acceded to a propoution, in doing which
they reserved to themselves a rorhs, on any future occasion,
If
semi their opinion on the conduct of the administration.
If ten days ego it wee a question with the parliament of
Ragland and the people of France, that is not the position
we are in on the present occsaion. The great advan-
tage that we derive in having on that occasion proved by the
mem In which the Home of Commons acceded to the pro-
prieties of the ministry that there was in this Isms • einem
sympathy with the French nation, and • decorum respect
for the Emperor of that people, that very lairemostance
permits us now to offer a criticism on the conduct of the
English ministry. What was the question between the par-
liament of England and the government and people of
Franca, is now a question between the House of Commons
and the English ministry. (Hear, hear.) I have heard
nothing to-night which throws the slightest light upon that
obscure passage of an administration which rims to the re-
alties' of this deepatch. No member has risen from the
Treasury bench—and the Treasury beach ham been exhausted
in this discussion—who has offered us a single reason
which can in any way mount for or justify the '
conduct of the goverment. There is one circumstance
which has not been referred to in this debate, and which I
myself was not conscious of when ten days ago this question
was introduced. The despatch of Count Waleweld, which
has been the subject of this discussion, was not merely com-
municated by the ambassador of France in England accord-
ing to the usual custom, but it was published in the Mostirear
of France. It was =de known to the people of France.
(Roar, hear.) More than that -like all state papers of great
authority that appear in a journal of that high cha-
racter it was copied probably in every official
joarasl in Europe, and probably authentically
accepted by every cabinet in Europe. Where
is the answer, then, to that despetch? (Cheers.) What
sins coon can It be to this country, how can the suspicion
of Europe be removed, if all we can receive from the noble
viscount at the head of the government is the information
that some indefinite words were expresso! in the saloon of
the French ambassador, in which, for aught we know, two
MSS of the world may have shrugged their shoulders and
expressed • meaning which was not expressed by articulate
mends. And then, with an indiscretion which is perfectly
inexplicable the government of England lay the despatch on
the table of the House of Commons and make it the basis of
the legislation they propose. /Hear, hear.) Let, then,
the home remove from their consideration the In.
fiance which this debate or the conduct of this house
may have upon the disposition of the French people or the
conduct of the French government. I do not suppose that,
under any circumstances, such considerations would exercise
any undue influence on the home ; but they have no bud-
nor now to exercise any influence, because the question we
have to consider to-night is no tenger the question of the re-
lations between France and England, is no longer a question
of the mutual relations between the_ parliament of England
and the people of Frame, but it is solely confined to the re-
sponsibWty which the government of this country has in-
curred to those who represent the people of England in this
House of Commons. (Hear, hear) The whole affair is cloaked
in a mystery which no minister of the crown has risen as yet
to ectp That this degpritch should not have been an.
swaged, that is should have been authentically printed and
circulated in Europe, that so authenticated it should have
been made the ostentatious basis of legislation in this house,
that those addresses in the official organ of the French
government, which justly occasioned so much indignation in
the country and is this house, were never disavowed till the
6th of February in this year, while on the 4th of February,
when the house met, this bill was announced,peovss to roe
that the government first acted in a perplexed, timid,
and confused manner, totally unconscious of what
was due to their own dignity as the ministers
of England, and were never recalled to the necessity of 'elf-
respect till they found the House of Commons turned upon
them, and demanded that to be done for the honour of the
country which they, the natural trustees of the honour of
agd had failed in accomplishing. It strikes me,
ri;:_assertion may be contrail°, ed if it is wrongly worded,
bat I barn met sincerely what I say, that with respect to
these sinew which appeared in the French organs, which
Ware gentplained or, and which produced so much mischief—
ihr theynopesred day after day and no notice was taken of
thin Maw by the interposition of the English ambassador
rnage, as appeal to the French government by
W, end no eegwpseatt to the French ambassador in this
by oar lesetary of State—that there was &nigh•
gmilent tilting an the pert el the English government,
whisk wee esemiened by perplady of opinion and
dalffity et . WOW of allowing this miaioncep-
dm to grow np y by day, the English ministers had placed
their fingers on circumstances so calculated to create and
fester a misunderstanding between the two countries, the
position of the French government with regard to removing
those causes of misunderstanding would have been greatly
facilitated, and probably we should saver have
been obliged to enter into this distension. But
Instead of that, as I have been geld and believe,
no
prudent attempt was made by the English government b
*met the course of this proceeding. The despatch which
bee occasioned so great a sensation in this country was al-
lowed to appear in the Mostifeur, to circulate throughout
Europe, and bad it not been for the inevitable meeting of
parliament, I am perfectly unconscious by what contrivance
It could hare been effected that a good understanding between
the two countries could have been established and settled.
Now let the house remember that in ninety-nine cases
out of one hundred, when there is a quarrel between
two states, it is occasioned by some blunder of •
ministry. In the present instances, I see no meson why
this mieconceptien should have occurred if the government
of this country had acted with promptness and fairness, with
a desire to support the dignity of this country, but at the
same Ms to conciliate the feeling of a good ally. I think the
how ham aprened to night that which I attempted to a-
we' the lat night on which this subject wag ander amide-
ration, their deep regret that that despatch was not irarm-
dilatory sameariA I thak that the country has arrived at
that moollisiail. I sea hardly conceive the averment that her
e ?ruandesa vindicate the Come they have pen.
am& he gentineen the member for the University
has Wad amp alleging on the part of her Majesty's
Crawith Wawa to the answering of this despatch.
sardi ery of ()lets lid set agree in the stern necessity
which he now recegases far replying to that gate paper ; he
den noted all apses in the tone- which the noble lord the
Fleet Minister takes on this subject. The noble lord
said he thought a despatch was not the
P"
mode of meting it—that in fact it waster -
answer the despatch of the French minister,
Weithat to
be the case, as I am informed it is by high legal
authority, what • fine answer would it have been, if, reply-
ing to the despatch, the minister having first made all no-
emery apology, at lit concluded by saying that, either by
the greatest god fortune in the world, or the most extraor-
alaw was in preparation, reedy to be pm-
= on the meeting of parliament, which woad Wanda
all that the French government could require, or the laws of
Ragland or the customs of the country permit of. (Cheers.)
Sir, when we have arrived at this point, when ham become
is pont of diseuedin whether an English minister should
reply to • despatch from a foreign government, in which
the honour of this country has been impugned, we
are told by the Lord Advocate that whet we want
is merely that a second despatch might be written, and that
our great specific for a political complication was n
more than a clear) written star paper. (Hew, hesort.ll
cannot read the either of the country or of this house
if anything of that be on the Ends of either. I
do not think that this home would be saddled or pleased
with a Aliment, lively composition,full el sneer and sarcasm,
:SZI to the Pasch government, which would have
their pelf-love, and not vindioned our honour. We
know something of each despairig—(►ese, hear)—we have
Blue-books fall of them on this table with refer rice in our
12.111cLathire. We have already too Teeny of each die
but not each as would be salted to the
of this nation or would be to
the feelings of our faithful ally. (Haar, hear.)
Bat still I am of opinion that that despatch ought to have
ban answered. I think It ought to have been answend
• Writ wing Cl the ocoesion. I repeat the woe egad-
matte WI the sew Warm white I espremod when the
wan list before ve, which were that the minister ofriull eemery ought to have answered that despatch in •
spirit worthy of the ocoesion. (Hew, hem.) I think that
in negiestinute esiairew pen occasion was lost. I
IMAM would have been well if the Winer Bed taken the
al waft the priadpise of public law, and to
oar ribroal rights. (Cheers.) Re ought to
hew oil with dignity and bower, and have made his
=not merely to the litigious spirit, bat to the
andidate of the French governand. (Cheers)
end had web an appeal been made in all lankness, I believe
it would have obviated the necessity of the prat reference
to the pediment end the people. (Hear.) We are to-nightto Wide only one question, whether the British t
have WM properly in neglecting answer t We-
Welds deeps Those who Wow ma, if I ea followed,
may Went to roan the pram se to Wm the hare of the
N
by allusions to possible alennespdone between the
two conarbe. I nes no grounds, me India in such attempts,
owl die ref the vets which this hew arrived at some tra
der air mad, in in se a vole in this home can, in-
Maw gins en the other ride et the rotor. I think it
and hew bass both prohdly raderstood sod
bilddriprealPethied• Moth) no lamlia with width
andre
now to deal ie net • barer !mos
410 red Ism an Whir wit be ailed,
frs acts or • Ohba isms, it Os •
lwr!rpiatortp, lied M and smell
is • guider wren here sad the weals
Cl the ' drcrore—bore they or bre_ they not done theiratS
with redrew a Ge
er
•d
fear dereart
chaste.) I wilt net ester Me • dlearia at re or
even at Os shaman Cl the hew they bar hid tralL"'
uemedrere Cl the dight les. or /dor hr Ashen
shwa be forded, err die reddecht presort as pro-
ls:4lbe radhoelleast ter awl ot rat mea-
pr wseem goaded ribs I we on •
he searbs; I relearn to myellt re right et hold* or
he Emir Whet w have to death sew r, whether the
✓eedollea Cl the right kr. gtodierre Is a just and
alsrsgas. rugs, de allegations gee &ornate, its
imensente ere theme which this home ought to emotion, tad
wham he regret which It taproom Me sot beta felt by
gar, Itglkhissa, and has not twirl re bears of the
whsle prph ot county(Lend darer) I protein
am
mist hesteideslimat beteg latostreed to this die-
eion. Let as whether the weithand in
of the right
hon. gentleman is one which is justified by the circumstances
or not. For my own part I agree with my right hon. friend

the mamba for the county of Oxford, that it is impossible
to challenge lie accuracy and justice. (Hear.) I think it is
exprresdi in moderate although grave hinguge that in sup-
it discharging a public duty, and that if we
et?,sup-
porting
we ere It ere shall accomplish a public benefit. (Chan.)
Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, I join with the right hon.
gentleman in the exhortation with which he muluded his
speech, and I implore the house not to allow its pismires to
be roused by eloquent declamation., that, and not argument,
being the insane by which the amendment of the right hon.
usher for Ashton is supported. (Oh, oh.) I say that that
declamation is devoid of argument, and I think I can prove
it. (Hear.) I contend that all we have heard has been
=
rural declamation, that the right hon. member for
sad my right hot. friend the member for Oxford
University, departing from the subject under consideration,
hays entered into a large and elaborate attack upon my con-
duct when Minister for Foreign Affsirs. They have taken
• view dust transactimis which, at an earlier period of the
evening, I should have beenishrfeetly reedy to answer ; but
now I shall only say of the t hon. member fur Ashton—
who appears to have rause old newspapers for weapons
of attack upon sae—that it is a pity his Industry did not take
another turn, and look back through the files to ere what
might have been said of himself and his policy in former
times. Had he done so, I think he would have found some
expressions quite se strong as those with which I have
bean attacked. ("Hear, hear," end cries of "Question.")
This much I will pay, that when the right hon. gentleman
stands forth to-night as the champion of the honour of Eng-
land, as the vindicator of the rights of this country se against
foreign nations, it is the first time in my life that I have seen
his appear in that character, (Cheers, cries of " Oh, oh,"
end "Question.') During the period that he and I have
sat in parliament together I recollect no occasion on which
the lights of England were called in question with reference
to the affairs of foreign countries in w hich that right hen.
gentleman has not teen the advocate of the foreign
country—(cheers, and loud cues of "Question")—
in which he has not turned that eloquence
and power which he can always command, to
prove that this country was wrong and the foreign country
right in the dispute. (Oh, oh.) Yes, the foreign policy
which the' right hon. gentleman ham invariably advocated
has been a policy of submission and crouching to any foreign
power with whom at the time we might have any difference
so arrange, and even when ocoasicos have arisen in which
this house has been called upon to furnish the government
with the moans of national the voice of the right
hon. gentleman was sure to be raised, to paralyse the arm of
the country, and to deprive it of its means of defence.
(Renewed interruption, cries of " Oh, oh," and some cheers.)
I recollect the right hon. gentleman standing forth on one
occasion meths mouthpiece of that small party whose publies-
don I had the honour to read to the house—(great inter-
ruption)—that publication which held it to be of no consequence
if we should be conquered by any foreign country provided
that the mills might continue working—(tremendous cries of
" Oh, oh," and • Question; ' amid which the conclusion of
the sentence was lost.) I nay, at all events, that the cha-
racter in which he appears to-night has the merit of novelty,
for he, for the first time within my recollection, appears ea
the champion of the honour and dignity of this country.
(Cheers, and " Oh, oh.") Now, I contend that
he is as unfortunate on the present occasion as I
think he was wrong on the former ones. I really
would call on the house calmly to consider—
(Laughter. ) Aye, sir, it was not I who introduced into this
debate pasdonate appals to prejudice and endeavours to
misrepresent the reel question. (" Time, time.") The
question which the house has now to decide is, whether it
will stultify itself. (No, no.) No I Of course--stultified.
But thole who are in • stultified condition are not willing to
acknowledge it. (A laugh.) Of course, stultified, if, in
the face of • majority of 200, affirming that the government
should bring in • massive of this character, we were now to
be led by an insidious amendment to refuse a
second reading to the bill without any fresh circum-
stances having arises, and the facts being the same.
If such be the result of the present motion,
it will be one at which the country will certainly be
astonished. (Some cries of " Hear, hear.") I say that
things are in the same condition, because an honourable
friend of mine asked why these argument. were not used
on the motion for leave to bring in the bill, and the right bon.
member for Oxford county said that the queation was fully
put to the house, end in spite of that tegument and in spite
of the eloquencewith which it was enforced a majority of
200 voted that the bill should he brought in even although
the miserable pretext of the unanswered despatch we.
strongly urged in opposition. I take leave to my that I
never heard a proposal fraught with large principles argued
on such narrow, idle, and miserable grounds. (Oh, oh.)
Why, sir, the grounds are opposite to the real facts of the
ore. The arguments urged in support of this amendment
ars, that this country haa been insulted, grossly insulted, in
• despatch sent by the French government to its ambassador
here, and that that insult has not been resented as It ought
to be. (No, no.) If that is not the ground there is no
ground; if the despatch is not to be resented there is
no pretence upon which to suspend a measure of
legislation merely because • particular answer has not
been written to • despatch whit ,6 %War other circumstances,
would not call for any particular observatioo. Now, I deny
that that despatch was an thank to this country, or was in-
tended to be an insult. I believe that who say la
have never read the despatch—(oh, oh • yes, I am satisfied
that the majority who vote it to have been an Insult have
never read the deepatoh. (Renewed cries of "Oh, oh.")
Why, sir, what dose that despatch say P Hon. members
say that it imputes to the people of England the enter-
taining the doctrine of the propriety of assassination. I say
it is not capable of that construction. What the French
government says is, that a conspiracy for asseed-
nation has been hatcbad in this country, and that persons
have issued from this country for the purposes of tarry
out the oonspiracy. It mys that the persons so
avow the doctrine of meridnation as • principle, and we are
called to account because we have not denied these positions.
Why, we could not dray it. (Cheers, and "Oh.") The
French government say that it we. done by those who abused
the right of asylum; end how could that apply to the people
of England ? (Hear, hear.) But it is said that it is • re-
diction •
upon the priple of England • and hon. gentlemen
get up and protest that the ;People of 'Engd are not to be
Insulted by having things imputed to them lan
which are con-
trary to their nature. (Hear.) But there is nothing in the
despatch which implies any such imputation. (Hear, hear.)
Then what is to be this answer " adequate to the occasion?"
Why we should have to admit the first allegation to
be true; though we are sorry that conspiracies should have
been hatched in this country by foreigners, and that
foreigners should have issued forth from our shores
to put those oonepiradee into execution. Than we should
have to admit that the doctrine of assassination has been
preached by foreigners in this country, though, of muse, we
should be sorry for that likewise. Well, I don't see that discs
would be very great advantage in an answer to • despatch
which admits all the allegations contained in that despatch
to be true. (Cheers, and '• Oh I") The despatch goes on
to say that the laws of the country do not provide en ade-
quate remedy ; and the Attorney-G=6nd has shown to-
night that that is perfectly true. (" Oh I") Then, what
would our anwer be, unless we deny that which is
true, and assert that the law does provide • remedy,
when the law officers of the Crown tell VA
upon their responsibility that it does not, or at all events,
that the point is one of such doubt that thz.wciannot take
ss upon thronele to say positively that the really is
put on the name footing u • native of this country. (Hear,
beer.) Than it is said that this despatch calls on u to put en
and to the right of asylum. Why theylum. French government
prides itself on maintaining that very principle in France,
and besets that it has often afforded a sets and honourable
shelter to those who have been obligedeingralgrotinds to
leave their own country and take rti (Hear, hear.)
The right hon. gentletnaa asks why, if we bed In our minds
the measure which we now peopoes, we did not tell the
Fritsch government in a formal commotioslion that we in-
tended to lay such • measure before Tediums' ? Why, sir,
if we had done so, I should like to knew what would not
have been said by those champions of the dignity of parkin-
mint P (Hear, hear.) What would not have been mid by
those pinions who are so jealous of the honour of the country
if we had come to parliament and laid on the table
a document by which we had forestalled the decision
of this house ? (Cheers.) If we had appeared to
have negotiated with the French government promise
to pay whisk the house must fulfil ? Chars.) Why, dr,
we should have been guilty of great to this hour
if we bad such an =constitutions] cum (Hear,
hear.) Then what would the " uste an
" have
been P It could not have been a dss4l of what had been
asserted bf the Preach government. It could not have been
that would propose a rosessre to parliammt
withwe
regard to the right of asylum and we could noth=
• due respect to this house, have told the
government at all what the measure was which we
thought the circumstances would jnssl,. Well, the,
the anima would have bee all, we, meagre dom-
inant unless we had stated things which wee set es endbr-
mity with the facts or truth. Hear.) If this hem &said
aim the bill which we impose on its nerd miss we
should, without waiting for its ultimates, have
say to France. (Daisies ahem.) We shoe; 11.:1112 t
to
o
say that, without infringing ow pried& of eta, laws or
de from any fundamental issideea7 ger stataltalica
or in practice of pediment, we hat peeped • nes-
sure of OW own which we alight hope weal k-sesse darns
glue te iulr •11, the Macaw that addlibmsl seeselly
which the Fria* gevernesat wishes, and whichrt
the sease time, be a asesare of purely Bedell
(Hear, hem) I bops this house will not take th=eases
which ties right ban. gentleman has urged It this wreaker Is
adpts,. jente thet we shall net rail with •
thtlWks of
Mat e5.41"1.16.4 deals= it ben egos Is
by a hogs . It is well he gelato= le PIT
thq attach hest le the mieesence
of ditefflead4 relationsof igh Ws ovister with Frees. It is all
vry wdlio say with the boa. grielkeesa Mr-
✓u thir e) while wit sake bps it pros with
pirdeti there sae cilesmiesses ash
ercal
ousidereticas tibia eight le m vs ho • ine-
protease Is the Aimee wilt Freese. It is well hi
Indulge la genera reworks et sad
11111.le
16% amuse see paws& having a Abed Midas
meadog2;KelPim mugeoph, oh flat alPiw.:. IllgemmilaibstrestifghithsthelLthalidshuirabwfgralk hliastbsatillagimmallow.
to.itaelfnightot,babletdwillaway by thtdaillowithathe
smug
rweadinghke treotauvethi.heardbin.
and will put aside the asseetbmat of the right boa.
gaiticroan. It is idle to say that yea can pass this sesead•
mat sod them go beck to the bill. It it quite char that If
upon fall and deliberate consideration yon prefer the
amendment, these can but be one intrp station put
upon each a vote. (Oh, oh.) It will be understood

• that within a few short days this house has latterly all.red its opinions. (Oh, oh.) If by some unknown
taunt:es, by some extraordinary peewee of ratainiuso
an accidental majority should now be obtained against tag
blfl, it cannot be placed in comparison with that majority
which, in no accidental manner, but, after calm redo:doe
and sober reasoning, was come to in favour of a bill, wakts
without infringing at all upon the principles of the constitu-
tion, is calculated to be of essential service with riusig
the 'Mance between this country and our great neighboute
end allies. (Cheers.)
The hones then divided :
For the amendment
Against it 216-19
Loud and long cheering and waving of hate followed this
announcement, and indeed preceded it ; for the result me
known from the relative position in which the tellers ap.
preached the table.
The amendment was then put as a substantive motion, sag
agreed to without • division. When its terms were solemnly
mad out by the Sp esker, for the second time, every eye wee
directed on Lord Palmerston; "but never a word epeke he."
lie wistfully looked, for • moment, on a paper containin
the numbers of the division, which some one bed cruelly
thrust into his hands, and then indignantly cast it on As
floor.
The order.. of the day, including "Simply—committer,'
were then called over, and postponed till-Monday,
some laughter.

CHELSEA NEW BR.
Sir J. SHELLEY m0v,41 for leave toIDGE bring in a bill he
repealing the act authorising a toll to be taken for foot psi
"Cson this bridge.
AYRTON opposed the bill, on the ground that
select oowmittes was sitting on the question of tolls in Is
metropolis.
Lord C. HAMILTON expected that some member of the
government would have replied to the question of the boa
member. All no member of the government seemed anxion
to reply, he hoped the discussion would be adjourned.
Sir J. SHELLEY said that when the subjact wss inquire'
Into he believed it would be found there was much to be eel
in favour of the view he took ; but atter the debate which
had taken place, and at that hour of the night, he would,
with the permission of the house, renew the discussion an-
other night. (Hear, hear.)
The subject was then postponed, and the bona, dimmed
at half-pant one.