The Express.
London, England, 1867-02-26 00:00:00

CARDINAL CULLEN.

In n"ply to Mr. NCWDEGATE,
The t!FDLNCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was
altogether ignorant of the political or religious opinions of
th•• Lonl ?.hyor of Dublin ; that not only Cardinal Cul-
l..n. but the Archbishop of Dublin, the President of the
Presbyterian Assembly, and the more distinguished mi-
te:s of valious denominations, hod he n invited to the
r:-cent chic banquet there ; that be could not understand
th.vt any precedence was given to Dr. Cullen on the ocea-
.'am otl,r than would be given to him in any society in
%Lich h.• might mix ; and that there was to foundation
for assuming that be was present in sap official or dilate
:..atic capacity.
THE GREENWICH SIXPENCE.

Mr. TREVELYAN asked the Presi•lent of the roan' of
Trod.. whether the survivors of those seamen who paid
the sixpence per month, commonly known as the " Green-
wich sixpence." which was discontinued iu the year 18:14.
Cot a cl.tim on the hospital on a•xount of that pay-
ment ; and, if so, what was the extent and nature of that

:•11- NORTHCOTE said that if these men had any
cl.dn. it was a moral, and not a legal claim : but he could
not then state what steps would be takcn on the subject.

REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE.

When the first order of the day, " Representation of
the People—committee to consider the Act 2 and 3, Wil-
li au IV., c. -17'—was read, all parts of the house were
crowded, anal his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales and
ti•e Duke of Cambridge sat on the benches reserved for
di4ingninheal visitors under the gallery.
Tte CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, on rising,
wv, received with cheers from his supporters. If. said
it was the desire of the government to restore the rights
which the labouring classes had lost in P'32. After a
brief defence of the course of procedure by resolutions,
chiefly by the necessity of coming to some understanding
on principles before proceeding to details, Mr. Disraeli
proceeded to unfold the government scheme, commencing
with the franchise. It was proposed to create four new
franchise., applicable both to boroughs and counties—an
education franchise, somewhat wider than that proposed
18.19 ; • 30f. savings-bank franchise, requiring a twelve-
month's retention of the deposit ; the possession of funded
property to the Amount of 501., and the payment of 20s. a
year of direct taxes. The first would create 10,000
new voters in boroughs and 15,000 in counties, the
second 35.7000 in towns and 25,000 in counties,
the tided 0000 in towns and 32,000 in counties, and
the last 30,000 in towns and 52,000 in counties ; in all,
82.004 voters added to the borough and 121,000 to the
county constituencies, derived from Lateral extension ,• and
these numbers, Mr. Disraeli added, were not merely of
persons qualified, but of those who would be likely to come
to the poll. Before proceeding to touch on the reduction of
the present franchises, Mr. Disraeli intimated that the
government did not intend to insist on the "plurality
of votes" resolution, explaining this it had been mis-
understood, and that its intention was simply that a
person enjoying any of the four new franchises should
have one vote in addition to his occupation vote. The
government would be ready to propose the reduction
of the franchise to W. rating in boroughs and 20f.
rating in counties, by which 130,000 practical voters would
be added to borough and 82,500 to the county constituen-
cies ; in all over 400,000 new voters would be created. As •
remedy for electoral bribery and corruption, the govern-
ment would propose, on a petition being presented from
a town after an election, to send down two assessors to
conduct a local inquiry, with an appeal to a select com-
mittee (the costs in both cases to be guaranteed by the
complainants and the appellants) ; and when • successful
candidate was convicted of bribery, the unsuccessful can-
alidate, if he were proved pure, should be seated in his
place. These proposals might be embodied in a separate
bill. Passing to the redistribution portion of his scheme,
Mr. Disraeli announced, eliciting loud and general
cheering, that the government would propose to
disfranchise the four boroughs which had been recently
convicted of bribery. This would place seven seats at
their disposal, and by appealing to the patriotism of small
boroughs with populations under 7,000 (which he declined
to specify, though repeatedly urged by loud cries of
Name ") to part with their superfluous representation
they would obtain 23 more. These 30 seats would be die:
posed of in this way :-14 to new boroughs—vu, Hartle- '
pool, Darlington, Burnley, Staleybridge, St. Helen's,
Dewsbury, Barnsley, Middlesex, Croydon, Gravesend,
Torquay, a town in the " Black Country," which
he could not now name, and the division of the
Tower Hamlets into two districts, with two members
each ; 15 to counties, by the division of North Lan-
cashire, North Lincolnshire, West Kent, East Surrey,
Middlestu . South Staffordshire, South Devon, and South
Lancashire (which, having now three, will only have one
additional member). The thirtieth seat would be given to
London University. Over the last resolutions Mr.
Disraeli passed very briefly, promising that the bill would
comprise carefully drawn and practical clauses for improv-
ing county registration, assimilating it to the borough
system, and for diminishing the expenses of county
elections by subdivisions of districts and multipli-
cation of polling places ; and on the last resolu-
tion he pointed out that, as it was to be •
royal and not a parliamentary commission, it might com-
mence its labours at once, and no delay need occur. Having
spoken for little more than an hour, Mr. Disraeli con-
cluded by claiming for the bill which he had sketched out
the credit of being a sincere and practical measure, which,
if candidly received, might terminate the controversy.
Mr. LOWE (who for the first time spoke from the front
opposition bench below the gangway) took advantage of
what lie termed Lis position as a political "outcast"
seriously to warn the house of the dangerous position in
which it would be placed by the course recommended by the
government. I hone (he said) that anxious as the house is
fora settlement of this question, they will not think it ne-
cessary to act in a spirit either of panic or precipitation.
Nothing of the kind is needed. There was never less excuse
for such feelings. The meetings that have been held through-
out the country have died away and left very few echoes
behind them. (Cheers.) Though organized at conside-
rable expense, and supported by the most unspar-
ing misrepresentation and abuse— (cheers) —they
have failed to take hold of the mind of the
nation. As for the " metropolitan demonstrations,"
they have demonstrated nothing except the impotence and
vanity of their authors. (Renewed cheering from the
ministerial benches.) It is not by ribunds and scarves that
the foundations of ancient monarchies are shaken. I
believe that the mind of the public at large, of the posses-
sors of property at any rate, is singularly well disposed
towards settling this question. The agitators who go
about the country preaching manhood suffrage, nothing
that we can do, or that any set of reasonable beings can do,
will satisfy ; hut the great mass of the country would, I
believe, be satisfied very easily indeed. Let us then give
up this miserable auction, this miserable competition
between two parties which can bid the lowest ; this suc-
tion, at which the country is rut op for sale and knocked
down to the person who can produce the readiest and
swiftest elements for its destruction We have this matter
still in our own hands. Let as bid • long adieu to shams
and pretences. Let us deal with the matter frankly. Let
us call upon the government to withdraw their resolu-
tions, to introduce a bill, and to bring the matter to an
issue fairly and plainly in the old English fashion, and
deal with it in our own downright way. There is no danger—
there is every safety in such • proceeding ; but there is
enormous danger in throwing the question loose before
the house. Every member will be pressed by his consti-
tuency, and we shall he hounded on by those who will
point out one member after another who seems
to hang back in the race for bringing down
the institutions of this country as speedily as
possible to the level of democracy. Therefore I ap-
peal to you to act firmly and decidedly. Touch the
nettle timidly, it stings your hand and you let it drop ;
CiAit firmly you are unhurt, said can tear it at your
ssirre. (C h cern. )

Mr. BRIGHT—I am sorry that the right hon. gentleman
who has just spoken has not taken some definite mode of
bringing the proposition that he has made to *decision by
the house, because I believe that there never waa any
proposition—l speak of his observations with reference to
the resolutions—which was in more entire harmony with
the almost universal feeling of the house. I will not
:teatime to say what is thought on this side of the house,
I speak only of what is thought on the other side ; and I
do not believe that amongst the ranks opposite there is a
single member off the treasury bench who really
thinks that the course which has been taken by the go-
vernment is a wise one, or one in which they ought to
persist. Hon. gentlemen opposite show it in their faces.
(Laughter.) They feel beyond question that 'heir principal
minister in this house has led them into a ludicrous posi-
tion, and not led them only, but is in danger of leading
the house into it. It is clear enough that if the speech
which we have heard to-night, and which hem shown how
much easier it is to make a speech which contains some-
thing than a speech which tells nothing—two hours to soy
nothing a fortnight ago, one hour to-night to say a great
deal—it that speech Lad been delivered a fortnight ago,
we should during the whole of that time have had an

opportunity of fairly canvassing the propositions of the
government. The right bun. gentleman the member forCalne
was almost certainly correct in his assumption, that pro-
bably up to Saturday lust the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer and his colleagues Lad not decided what to pro-
pose. They came forward now with a statement which
clearly makes the resolutions entirely out of place. (Hear,
hear.) The officers of the government to whom these
matters are usually entrusted could easily turn the speech
of the right hon. gentleman into a hill, and lay it on the
table this day week. Therefore, to go into discussion upon
the resolutions would be to waste time ; but to go into a
discussion with a view to treat them ea we were invited to
treat them it fortnight ago would do much more than
waste time—it would be to throw this question of reform,
which, after all, is a question of some seriousness,
into • parliamentary chaos, and at the same time
it would depreciate to an immeasurable degree the cha-
racter and power in future times of the executive govern-
ment in this house. (Hear, hear.) A fortnight ago the
right hon. gentleman Battered us by telling us how supe-
rior we are to certain legislative houses in other countries,
and referred, among others, to that which sits at Wash-
ington. I undertake to say that during the 24 years that
I have had a seat in this house no proposition has been
made which has tended so much to Americanise the House
of Commons, as the chief legislative assembly of this
country, as the proposition which the government has
made on this question. (Cheers.) In America, Mr.
Seward, Mr. Staunton, and the other eminent men heads of
departments under the President, do not make their appear-
ance either in the House of Representatives or in the Senate.
The two houses discuss and pass what measures they like,
without consulting either the President or his ministers ;
and as I understand the plan now submitted by the right
hon. gentleman, it is that they sitting on that bench shall
act upon the suggestion of a newspaper which has been
doing its best to lash the consignee of the right hon. gen-
tleman into some obedience to his views, and which re-
commended that lie should stand at the counter, as if he
were in a very decorous garb at Swan and Edgar's, and ask,
"Is there anything more, gentlemen, that you would like ?"
(A laugh.) In my opinion the views expressed by the
right hon. gentleman the member for Cake ought to he
adopted by the house, and that the government ought to
withdraw these resolutions, bring in a distinct and definite
bill by this day week, and submit it manfully to the
decision and discussion of parliament, as was done last
year. What becomes of all your arguments against the
right hon. gentleman the member for South Lancashire?
(Loud cheers.) Was it not one of your first arguments
I that the plan submitted to the house was what you called
crude and ill.digested ? (Cheers.) Was there ever any
submitted to parliament by • minister of the crown
so ludicrously crude 1111 the propositions which the right hon.
gentleman Las submitted by the resolutions which are
upon our table? Did you not bear nearly every speaker
whom I see before me say (either of his own invention, or
what is more likely, following the lead of some-
body on the Treasury bench), that the bill intro-
duced by the member for South Lancashire was
fragmentary to the lust degree. and that it was quite out
of the question that parliament should decide what should
be done until they saw everything? The noble lord the
member for King's Lynn made a speech which I presume
gentlemen opposite, who have great credulity, thought to
be unanswerable—(cheers)—but if it was unanswerable, it
only came to this, that parliament would not agree to a
certain thing on the invitation of the minister until they
saw precisely what the house would be likely to agree to
in regard to some other proposition affecting the general
question of reform. Well, then, I think hon. gentle-1
wen opposite must find themselves in a very '
curious position. You have been kept in the
dark, we are told, until about half-past two o'clock
to-day. What was told you at half-past two of course is
not publicly known, but you have heard from his speech
to-night what are the propositions which he is willing to
make to us if the house will pass a certain number of re-
solutions, which have really almost nothing to do with the
Cproposals which he wishes us hereafter to discuss. Not
oPilug what the house will do with regard to those reso-
lutions I shall take the opportunity of saying a few words
with regard to the provisions of the measure which the
right hon. gentleman has shadowed forth. Let me ask the
house what is it that is asked by the country—and if the
right hon. gentleman the member for Caine objects to that
phrase, I will diminish it so far as to say, by
those who really do ask parliament to grant
some considerable measure of franchise extension.
It is not denied by any man—the right hon. gentleman
will not deny it—great meetings have been held, at which
many hundreds of thousands of persons—l speak in the
aggregate—have attended, and it is known to every man
living in the districts in which they were held that the uni-
versal sympathy of the working classes in every district
was with those persons who were present at the meetings.
(Hear, hear.) They asked the House of Commons that
the barrier which was put up in 11132 should be thrown down—
some that it should be thrown down altogether—in fact the
bulk of those who were disfranchised—so that all may
come in. But multitudes of others asked that it should be
lowered so far that a large portion that shall sensibly
affect the borough representation shall be admitted.
(Hear, hear.) The bill that was introduced by
the government last year was a bill that proposed
—I
say by an extravagant computation. which no
man can prove to be true—to admit about 204,000, and
they were to be admitted by the abolition of the rating
clause in the Reform Act as it now stands—by having no
rate-paying clause with respect to ratepayers from 10/. to
71. And assuming, as the right hon. gentleman (Mr.
Gladstone) did assume, his calculation to be correct, his
bill would have admitted 204,000 working men to the
borough franchise. What does the right hon. gentleman
the Chancellor of the Exchequer propose to do? Instead
of 71. rental he proposes 111, rating, which will vary accord-
ing to the system prevailing in different boroughs. (Hear,
hear.) Possibly there may be a few persons to whom it
may be about the same u 71. or 71. 10s. rental ; but it will
vary from 71. up to 10/.--(" No, no," and " Hear, bear")
—and I undertake to say that it will not be equal in all
the boroughs of England to an 81. rental franchise. The
right hon. gentleman argues that it will admit 130,000,
and he proposes other franchisee, of which I will say now
' no more than this, that generally speaking persons who are
investors in the funds, and who pay direct taxation, and
who possess education according to the scheme of the
right hon. gentleman, nearly all of them and some of those
who have investments in the savings banks as a matter of
necessity and notoriety must have votes at present.
(" No," and cries of "Hear, hear.") The right hon. gentle-
man's computation, like that which he made in 1859, is
founded on nothing better than the loosest guess, and in
my opinion is not worthy of consideration as a scheme to
admit the working classes to the vote. (Hear, hear.) The
' right hon. gentleman said that the house had decided the
question of rating last session, and therefore he took that
as his beds. But the right hon. gentleman knows that it
is not the best franchise. It served to destroy the bill of
last year. It served to overthrow the government.
It served the minister who now preaches • total absence of
all party spirit—(loud opposition oheers)—and he proposes
to aosept it as a thing definitely settled by parliament.
But when he came to the county franchise, why did he not
accept the vote of parliament last session? (Renewed
cheers.) After great debate on • division on an amend-
ment moved by the right hon. gentleman the member for
the University of Cambridge (Mr. Walpole), the house
decided in favour of a 14/. county franchise. Why had
not the right hon. gentleman the liberality and the manli-
ness to accept the accidental, if he so chooses to call it,
certainly the vote of the House of Commons, which was
favourable to a lower franchise throughout the country in
regard to counties—when he accepted the vote of the
house with respect to boroughs? Bat, sir, the influence
of the county vote was in favour of an extension of the
franchise. (Cheers.) The right honourable gentleman
proposes to admit 130,000 additional electors to the
boroughs, and 82,000, I think, to the counties.
He extends to the counties those most childish
qualifications of the navies* bank—the 301. investment, and
the investment in the funds of, I am not sure whether the
sum is 38/. or 501.—the payment of direct taxation.
Why, air, under the bill which has just been sketched a
ratcatcher who keeps four doge—(great laughter)—because
be pays for them in direct taxation—l believe the amount
is 20s.—will of course come in to the new constituency of
the right lion, gentleman which is to save the country
from destruction. (Renewed laughter and cheer.) Now,
I ask the house this simple question—whether they believe
that the project of the right hon. gentleman affecting
the franchise—and at present I am leaving out of view
that distribution system which he has expounded—will
settle, or do anything to settle, the question of reform?
(Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman assumes—and I
I think the right hon. gentleman below me (Kr.
Lowe) made the same assumption, that the house
is almost unanimous for something, and is willing
to puss a Reform Bill. There may be a great
and essential difference, and a perilous difference,
between a Reform Bill and a reform— (cheers)—and I ven-
ture to say, and I tell hon. gentlemen so in all honesty—l
never speak to them under any subterfuge, as they know—
I tell them, in all honesty, that if you will permit your
minister to go as far as this, merely unsettling what now
exists and settling nothing—(cheers)—you permit him to
do whatever mischief may lurk in his proposal ; and if you
will not let him go further—if he were so disposed—you
cripple him and prevent him doing an act which, I venture
to say, twenty years hence every man then living would
rejoice that there were ministers this day to do. (Hear,
hear.) Have you not read what has been written in the
public papers universally during the Mat six months?
Have you not heard or read what has been said at public
meetings of every kind—(ministerial cheers and counter
cheer)--and that the unanimous vote of all those meetings has
been in favour of something much larger and more complete
than the proposition of the right hon. gentleman ? There
has not been, so far as I know, during the whole of that
time, • single real public meeting which has asked for or
even hinted that it would like a proposition like that the
right hon. gentleman has now submitted to the house.
(Hear, hear.) lam appealing to hon. gentlemen opposite
in their new position. (Laughter.) You are not anti-
reformers now. (Renewed laughter.) I believe the season
of transformation is almost over at the theatres, but it
appears to extend so long and so far as the House of
Commons. Lest session there was no language too violent
for you to use against the moderate proposition of the then
government. (Hear, hear.) Now you will have to get up
and unsay all that you have said, and to try and say the
exact opposite in support of the right lion. gentleman and
his colleagues. But I will not quarrel with you about that.
You have as much right to change your opinion as the
right hon. gentleman the member for Caine has
to change his. (Laughter.) Hia speech to-night