The Express.
London, England, 1860-07-25 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOIISZ OF LORDS,—TI rxDAT, JcLy.24.

•
7b• Loss Caascaurs took his teat ou the woolsack at
Sas dam!
KUIPPLIIB MR THE RONDA Y ARTILLERY.
Loot ELLIINDOROUGH pie a tie. that he would on e
fut., thy i.eire of the cry met, tby 'Owes direction,
sad natter whose Simpertom, ccrt.uo ankles of a perishable
ltskare. of iafenor quality. sal it %slue between 10nd.
sail W.t.tskr.. equal to I.syears' supply. bad been seat out to
E, 11s7 for the men of the Roe.. I .trtilkry there.
- -- • -- - -

?be Naettiaery sal D•eia( Works bib, sort the Lads
flames Caro Act (IV4A) Amaralanai Hill severally
prowl Wasik cosaasittest

CENtIt'S BILLS.

The home havieg, on the motion of Earl GRANVILIMI,
resolved itself Seto committee on the Celina (England) and
the 'noes (Ireland) Bills,
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH, in reference to the latter
bill (which was taken iret), expressed his intention of props.
nag two asneedments. The Ant was to strike out the clause
vita+ required a rebate of religious professioe, which he was
happy to ffed had been sleuth cute( the English Censuri
He also Chewed that • piewinion in the English bill should
be inserted is the premed bill—namely, that which required
to be laid before parlimesistoi month before the act came
isle operatipcs, a table af the allowances made to the several
meow emloved upon the memo
Lord VONTEAGLE regretted the omiesicei freest the
Eaglish bill of the words requiring the religiosieprefeeion
of persona to he stated, and, he could not for the eof him
understand the principles upon which it had been ad-
vocated. Nor could he imagine how it could be sow
tended that • statistical return &bowie* the re-
ligious faith of parties, sad made b 7 those parties
themeelves, was so interfeirmice with religious liberty. He
was disposed to think that the persons who ob;eeted to such
a Mere had some other motive, namely, an appeehension
that it would show that that amber. and impotence had
been somewhat exaggerated. He therefore looked upon
the omiaaice as a defect Is the bill. With regard to the
preeest bill, similar particulars as to the religir,.s preheat's°
el parties had been of eathed is Irelatcl on a Vrruer «ration
without any difficulty or heartherniega, and be hoped the
provision on that subject would be retained.
The Earl of ELLEN BOROUGH observed that • great
many years ago be had the curiosity to inquire how many
meta there were in • town in the north of Ireland contain-
ing a population of 4,01.10, and be found that there were
mitketi. (A laugh.)
Earl GRANVILLE thought that the government Were
perfelly justified in introducing the provision respecting
religi..us profeseion iu the English bill, but as they foiled
that it was offensive, whether rightly or wrongly, to the
feelings of • large portion of the community, he was sure
their lordships would be of opinion that they had taken •
proper course in agreeing to it. withdrawaL As regarded
the Irish bill the government were informed that the feel.
ing was exactly the reverse, and that in Ireland no objection
was made to a return showing the religious faith of the
parties enumerated.

Tlio Earl of ELLENBOROUGH moved the omission of
wort. giving power to the collectors to take an =comet of
" al! ..uch further pirticnlals" as they might he directed to
ilyitnre into. Parliament having specified what ideate:s-
lim was to be obtained, it certainly did not mean to entrust
the government with a general power to inquire into every.
thing.
Lori MONTEAOLE suggested that the words objected to
might be found in the former Irish Census Act, and that if
they were left out the collectors might be unable to make
tee next census *qualm all respects to the last. He would,
therefore, ask the noble earl to postpone hie amendment
natil be ha.l an opportunity of referring to the List act.
The Earl of ELLEN BOROUGH would have no objection
od to ppone Lis motion until ;some future occasion, but he
Lid 00. ;mum objection to the power proposed to be con•
forred upon the lord-lieutenant of Ireland of inquiring into
any matter on which lie might be curious, and the Wit of
which iipiniry was to be borne by the country.
Eari GRANVILLE said he was willing to refer the
smatter to the Irish authorities, if the noble earl would've,
to that course. He thought the bill ought to be as nearly
as possible the same as that of IKSI.
T7ie Lid of ELLENBOROUGH cemented to the seg.

Th.. hill then Rand through committee mid was roparled
to the h.,uee.

CENSUS (ENGLAND) BILL
Their lordships went into committee on this hill.
The Earl of ELLF.NDOROUGH said he ob,eeted to this
llaU because it required &great deal of unnecessary itforina•
tam. What was the me at requiring the 1161t11” of every
living person is England to he written down` There would
2:4.000,0004 names to be copied into • book, which no
UM would ever mad, but which would make up about
30,40 volumes, aqmantity sufficient to sena as the ground•
west for another Alexandria= library. For an that cone
moue quantity of prin'ina, however, the public would have
to pay. as SIMI for other melees facts of the same kind, such
as the relationship of every person is a house to the bead of
the Guide sad the place et is birth if not in the parish—a
cuTuntalsinos sot always emayascertained. It would be im
pnissibbi a, obtain all this information in the single day on
which it was proposoi to take it—namely, on Monday, the
11th of April.

E/121 iit.% NVILLE thought it waa deeimble to have aa
moth uniformity as possible ia these halls aa regraded
form. and details. This hill therefore contained nearly
the mow provisions a. the MIMI bill. i,f Pril and Intl. It
was better that changes should not he made in census bills
every ten years, bawls@ false inferences might he drawn
hem them: For that mason be bail been of opinion that
particulars which many persons ile.ired w hese ought not
to Se asked for, such a. educational and rMigious details
and fit:t. which wime scientific person. were curious about,
sorb as the colour of the hair— he precomed io order to
a:certain the relative proportions of the population ilia.
Winded under the 'anon, Norman &oil Celtic ramie.
t" Hoar. hear." and • laugh.) All lioe4t e. teemed had been
ay, Wiwi, mad the 101 l wee to he strictly useful.
The Earl of ELLE.VEIOROUGH mid that the number of
the population. with particulars of sea an.l azy, were all the
facts that as a legislature they were interested in asking.
A. the hill stood he did riot think it was one upon which
they could rely The returns were first to he correetol if
we. euar by the eniuneraturs, and that process would have
tole gone over again—first by the registrar, and afterwards
by the superintend-nt, and by that time tine hill would bra
perfectly anginal document altogether unworthy of mliaace.
Ile still thought the Irish mode of taking the consumers' a
great deal the better of the two, sad be regretted his iambi.
it to impress they lordships' bore with that view.
The 101 l then pared through connaittet.

PriAnn. the Offeacea in her Majesty' Poe.
sea.inos 16ruad. vi I the Harris,' Yisberies (9oodsad) Bills
were real • esem..l time

The laboarene I.!ottoges (Soothed). the liorial Grounds
I frilandi Act Amendment, the Isle of Ilan Harbour, add
th.• lo•minica Hurricane Loma Bills were read a third
Low and passed.
Lord FIROrtIRA If moved the second reading of the
YeJoey and IliodetreanourH. of which the object wise to
give to mimeses c,unsel the right of reply cow enjoyed by
awed in enons.ii

Lool WENSLE f DALE opposed the bill, which was sup.
parted h. the Lord Chancel.
Alter aims* delimit the bowie dlvideL when the second
solding was cam.' be 13 to 10.
The house adjourned at five 'Wanks to eight.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TuesDAy..In.r, 24.
fOrsetinned from yesterday'.
•POOR LAW BOARD CONTINUANCE RILL.
The preamble of the bill woe then agreed to, and the bill
paned through committee.
ROM.AN CATHOLIC CHARITIES BILL
The house went into committee on this bill.
Er SELWYN was ablressine the limise in reference to
ere of the clatter, when four o'clock baring eri i red,
The house adjourned.
The house resumed at six o'clock.
NOTICES OF MOTIONS.
CRUELTIES ON BOARD AMERICAN SHIPS.
Mr. Y. MILNES, on the ariVon for the adjournment on
l'riday, to ask the Home Secretary what measures have been
Lukas to bring about a convention between the Visited States
pad this c.eintry with regard to the impunity which exists
for crimes committed im board tuesels trading between
England nod Anilines.
INCOME TAX ON TERMINABLE ANNUITIES.
thr F. KELLY to ask the Firm Lord addle Treasury whether
Se the meat at a lose being effected by means of terminable
amenities, provisions will be introduced into the bill for
Mie purpose of modifying the scale on which such annuities
Mall be charged with thr income tax. (Hest, bear.)
SICILY.
Hr. CAI/71TH asked the Secrets:7 of State for Forego
,flair., whether iefortnatem had been received that, to
avoids civil war, the King of Naples had ordered the whole
el Sicily to be teracuated. He wished also to know whether
bet Majesty's govensment had received informatics to Mee
Beet th it the King of Sardine had scot an aide-disataap
with as autograph letter to Genbabli reonestioe him not to
attack the contineetalla~.s,r.ion.of the 4( ing of Naples.
Lord J. RUMELL -We have received a telegram in•
gaemeig as that the King of Naples has given orders that
Menem and the other which are or,u pied by his
moor AO be evacuated. With respect to the hon. gentle-
ness s amok ciesdia• cult Only elate that the Neapolitan
igiaietar, who is at Pretest in London. has informed me
that the Neapolitan envoys at Tuna had an interview with
cams Caveat, and that the Kites of Kit-dints, afterwards
ant Si aide-de,arap to General GariliabtiAliut what was
she pprport of his message I have so means of knowing.
COLOURED PASSENGERS.
Mr. O'BRIEN naked the Secretary to the Treasury whe•
they, prior to the granting of any More seiterite to any roe.
erector for ocean pedal service, it wee the a her
Majesty'. government to demand as that du
',Sections of mos or =four shall net be made by the merman
of such tont:erten as regards the treatment of passengers
wpdam items polarising such ellYkoa
Mr. LAIN G believed that no principle was more oertaiu
than that subsidies groaned far the plena 11111VNe Weft can.
Suede aclassvely to thellaliveyaliee of She 12141111; and that
therefore the gummiest was in no respect responsible for
.-tat the owners of the vessels mitt do with regard to
aierybandtme or r traffic. • did Dot apprehend
that that principle woe d be departed from. (Hear, hair.)

COAST GUARD SUPERANNUATION.
Mr. WATLINOTON asked the Secretai7 to the Adnil•
ralty whether the case of the civilian chief officers in the
Coast Onard Marries appointed prior to the 4th of Aligner,
11"_9, had bean under the ronsiderstion of her Majesty's go-
vernment ; and whether it was intended to grant any addi-
tional Miring allowance to these aeons.
Lord C. PAGET replied that the euperanonation of
civi-
liam belonging to the coast guard was provided for by the
Kuperrinnasteos Act. The grievance complained of wee
that the civilians were sot_ pleoad on wetly the mate foot-
ing am those who were hable to be sent to sea ; and he was
not prepared to propose that that should be done.
THE PAPER DUTI.II4.

Mr. DISRAELI eked when the proiosod alteration in
the enstoms duty on paper would come on.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I am sorry
to say that I aunt, in the absence of my noble friend,
answer the question of the right hon. gentleman. I really
do not know what arrangements my noble friend has made
for the oonduct of the huskiess of the house. (A laugh.)
Mr. DISRAELI—Perhaps the noble lord the Foreign
Minister can give the house the information ?
Lord J. RUSSELL—I cannot. (A laugh.) I have had a
communication from my noble friend to the effect that he
intended to make a statement oo the subject this evening.
Mr. HORSMIN —ls the noble lord expected to come
down to the house to-night ? (A laugh.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—Yes.

THE NAVY.
Sir J. PAKENOTON moved that an humble Llamas be
presented toherMajasty praying that she would be graciously
pleased to issue a royal COUMIIIIIIIOII to consider the present
system of promotion and retirement in the royal Davy, and
the present pay and volition of the amend classes of naval
officers, sad to report what changes therein are desirable,
with a view to the increased efficiency of her Majesty's
naval service. The right hon. baronet disclaimed any party
spirit in bringing this subject before ths house—in point of
fact be brought it forward in the same spirit as had
actuated the able speech of the noble viscount on the
subject of fortifications. He asked, in the name
of the navy, and in the name of the country,
for this ioquiry, which he was convinced was ne-
cessary for the naval service and the result of which
he believed would prove satisfactory to the service. He
certainly meant to take the sense of parliament on the
subject ; and should call fora division on the motion if the
Admiralty did nut grant him what lie naked. But he
thought they must acknowledge that it was so far reasonable
that they would delay the intentions he understood they
had formed, and grant the commiasioo, for which it was
then his duty to conclude by moving.
Sir N. SEYMOUR seconded the motion.

Captain TALBOT supported the issuing of a commission.
The feel 7 elf the service was entirely in its favour. The
Admiraft • nelson of retirement did not go far enough.
Lord C.
the right boo. baronet had enumerated the griev-
ances he had referred to. The only thing that surprised
him was that Sir John, feeling his cue so poignantly,
should not, while he was at the Admiralty—a period much
longer than this present board had been in office—when
this. thiap nest have been as patent to him at least as
they wars sow, have taken steps during the time he held
that high position to carry into effect all those schemes
which ha now_
Iproposed fur the basset of officers of the navy.
Sir J. PALNGTON-8o I did.
_

Lord C. PAciiiii;id the right hon. baronet had cer-
tainly dealt with the gaselier, bet he had done it in a very
partial spirit, except as use class of officers, the
surgeon, who no doubt sit, as they ought to feel, very
gnat gratitude to ths right hon. baronet. Only the other
day an application had come to the Admiralty, that the
right hon. baronet's bust might be placed in the museum of
Healer Hospital. (Laughter.) But why, when he wail
dealing with the surgeons had he entirely overlooked the
claims of all those other officers to whom he now referred—
masters, paymasters, and engineers ; and why—which was
a still stronger cue—had be neglected the chaplains, whose
condition he now expressed such an earnest desire to im.
prove! What did he do for the chaplains? He produced a
scheme which war such an utter failure that the chaplains
declined it, and preferred remaining under the old system
of pay. This was a proof that the right hon. inns
net, with all his desire to serve the navy,
could fail as well as his neighbours. He (Lord
C. Paget) was ready to admit that the Admiralty's
scheme of retirement might be enlarged. If they
could provide foe many very meritorious and excellent old
officers in • more generous spirit it would be • great plea.
sure to the Admiralty to do so. But they had to consider
what wee done with regard to officers of the army ; and he
repeated that it was after • careful comparison with the
provnionf made for the officers of the sister orrice that this
scheme had bees proposed for the consideration of the house.
These matters were constantly before the Board of Admi-
ralty, and the pay and position of the officers were im-
proved as soon as it became manifest that it was necessary.
He therefore thought it much better to trust to the depart-
ment for making thess changes than to appoint a commis.
lion, which would only raise the expectations of the whole
naval service, and anmettle the minds of all, for each person
in sank • ease would ems forward with his grievance.
(Neer, hear.) It nes mast injurious in his opinion
that any ow in the position of his right hon. friend
should declare that every class of officers in tee
royal navy was discontented. (Hear.) It was a pose
premium on discontent. (Hear.) But he lagged leave to
deny that there was an discontent. They bad all as EN-
lishmen the privilege of grumbling, and a blessed privilege it
was. (Laughter.) That there were occasional grounds for
grumbling he admitted, but he denial that there existed any
thing like general discontent; and as he had shown that the
successiveßoards of Admiralty were ready to review the
Rositimi of the officers, to improve their position, and in-
ert...Jr their pay whenever it seemed to be requisite to do so,
he hopel the house would not agree to the motion of his
right hoe. friend. (Hear.)
Air J. EL PH I NSTONE said he was not convinced by the
speech of the noble lord that the issuing of a commission
was not desirable and necessary.
Sir C. NAPIER said he had come down to the house
with • firm determination of opposing the motion of the
right hon. baronet, but he must say that since he had been
in the service he never heard anything so fair and just as
the right hooonrabio baronet had displayed in the
house that evening. He sever before heard • gentle-
man who had Mad the office of First Lord of the
Admiralty come forward and state what was really the
condition of Aliases of the navy. With reference to the
mptaius, they had to bear • heavy expense out of their
private resources, and if they did not keep gond tables, they
suffered in the estimation tithe officers and crews; and any
captain who had a wife and family to support no his pay,
and wished to study economy, who ordered a mutton-chop
and • potato for his dime_ r, would be looked epos as •
poor, miserable, shabby devil— la laugh)—that could not
afford to entertain his officers Such • man was unable to
return the courtesies of foreign officers and main.
tain the dignity and respectability of the British navy. The
outfittiogs of captains io the navy coat them a coosioerable
sum of money, and he believed it was impossible fora captain
under an expense of MO/. to outfit his ship. This
was the first time the house had ever known the condition
of captains in the navy, and he gave the right hon. baronet
his thanks for the true and just and honourable statement
he had made to the house that evening. He hoped when
this CUII.MiISIOI2 met it would inquire into the condition of
the warrant officers, the petty officers, and the seamen.
and still more particularly into the case of the warrant
officers' widows, who had been treated in the
most shabby manner. With regard to the question
of promotions and retirements. be thought there ought to
be some plan fur granting promotion to old officers, and I
another plan for political interest, which of course would
always have its effect. He should like to see some such
plan as they had in the French navy, by which a certain
number of officers were promoted by seniority, and a certain
number by selection. The noble lord (Loyd O. Paget) was
very fond of making emulations, and accused the late First
Lord of the Admiralty of breeding discontent amongst the
officen of the navy : but he (Sir C. Napier) thought when
that right hoo. gentleman WIN first lord be did as much
as he could do to ameliorate the condition of
the officers, and left an example behind him
to hie succession which they had not followed, and he
thought those accusations were very unjust and ungenerous.
He (Sir C. Napier) trusted this commission would be named,
and that it would be • just commission, composed of men
who really did know the service, who were independent
men, and not afraid to speak their minds to the Admiralty.
If • commimios of that sort was formed he thought • great
deal of good might come out of it.
Sir F. B.ARINO said he had no wish to pre-
vent inquiry ; on the contrary he was anxious that every
case of grievance or supposed grievance should be invest'.
gated ; but that the investigation should be by the re-
sponsible authorities, and nut by an irresponsible coin-

Mr. B. COCHRANE treated the motion would be
to a dimities sod carried, the necessity of which he
ho ht was Built:featly proved by the difference of opinion
which had been shown during the debate to exist between
two ex-Piret Lords of the Admiralty.
Mr. LLNDSAY was also of opinion that inquiry was ne.
asesery.
Mr. WHITBREAD said that, with regard to the corn-
plaint that the enema in the number of °Moors in the
higher retired lists was a great evil, his reply wasi that they
must always have, in ordinary times, a
.large margin of ex-
perienced captains and higher officers, in order that, whew
micessity aarreoas.,q they might be able, without much delay, to
it out a conside able fleet. In case of emergency it would
not be difficult to au up the places of the lower ranks of
oecers, but it would be utterly impossible to raise up, is a
short period, any large number of experienced Karel °Moen.
Ayes as
Noss ll9-33
PACKET AND TELEGRAPHIC CONTRACTS.
Mr. DUNLOP moved the following resolutions :--
" That in all cootracta extending over a period of yeas;
and creating a public charge, actual or prospective, entered
into by the (armament for the conveyance of rods by sea,
or fur the purpnee of telegraphic cornmunica. ions beyond
sea, there should be inserted the condi:ion that the con-
tra -t shall not he binding until it hal lain upon the table of
the House of Commons for one month without disapproval,
nate., previous to the laps* of that pffiodOt has been ap-
proved of by a resolution of the house. That every such
contract alien executed should forthwith, if Parliament lie
then sitting, or, if parliament he not then sitting, within
fourteen days after it aeteniiiles, he laid upon the table of
the leiirse, ernropani-d by a minute of the Lords of the
Treasury, setting forth the grounds on which they have
proceeded in authorising it. That in cases where any such
contra-t reuutres to fis coriernicl by act of parliament,
the bill fue that purpose should not be latruduced and dealt