The Express.
London, England, 1858-02-13 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 13, 1858.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAT, Fes. 12.
The Brut= took the du& at a quarter to 4 o'clock.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.

NOTICE OP
METRATOMAX WOI:KHOL'%rs.—By Lord RAYNHAN,
for the 19th inst., a select committee to inquire into the sd-
miniMration of the metropolitan workhouses.

THE LICENSING SYSTEM.
Hr. HARDY irked the Secretary of State for the Home
Department, whether it wee his intention to inuodum any
1N1060111.11 is the present seeehin 60 alter the ey stein of Longing
alehouses, beerhotases, and other places of public resort, re-
freshment, sad entertainment now in force, or for the better
regulation of such houes and places P
Sir G. GREY replied that, to aeconlanco with an intima-
tion given beat eeemon, he bad consalt r. d the aubject, and
bad had many tommunhetions with the pers. rte ,“nnacted
with theme lweneed houses and places of ri Non. and with
others who hal paid attention to It in the ir.ter,t of mo-
rality; but he IVY not at present prepare,' to lay any bill
upon the tell, enil•dyinc thole, amendments in the existing
system whi di he felt were niseratry. He hoped, however,
in the eourae of the motion to be ablo to present a bill for the
better reguLitNai of be...thou/es and other places of public
resort, refreaLmact, and entertainment. and, connected

with it, for nn alteration in the present system of grunting
harness (Rear.)
DIVORCE ACT.

Mr. LYOON inquired whether it was the intention of her
Majesty's government to bring in a bill to amend the Divorce
Am of last session in reference to affidavits, which, in the
opinion of the judge ordinary, could only be made before the
court sitting in London? Whether it was tho intention of
her Majesty's government to bring in a bill to extend the law
adivorce to Ireland, and those portions of her Majesty's
dominions which were left unaffected by the act of last

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, replying to the second
question, said that certain bills were under consideration re-
lating to ecclesiastical matters in Ireland, but there were
dialculties in the way, and the bills were not yet matured,
nor could he state positively that they would be brought in
daring the pretent beaston. In refertmotto the fine question,
than wee probably a nenesehy for some further interference
in repaid to atildavite in the Probate Court, and perhaps it
might become a subjoin for a measure: during the tonne of
the session.

THE MORTALITY IN THE GUARDS.
Captain ANNESLEY asked whether the government
had received any report from the swimming of Foot
Guards proving that the morts:ity, instead of Going 22 per
1,000, wee little more Minkel( that amount in those regi-
ments._ _ _

Sir J. RAMSDEN had received such s report, which ap-
peared to show that the mortality was lower than had been
reported by the medical cemm'seioners, but the difference
arose in this way. The meliesl commissioners' returns were
bawd on the average of fifteen years down to 1863, while the
report to which the hon. and gallant officer alluded wee cal-
culated on the results of the last eighteen months only.

. -
CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS.
Mr. S. BERKELEY wished to ask the First Lord of the
Treasury whoa it was Zia intention to pr,.pose to submit the
Comma Practices Prevention Act to the investigation of a
committee?

Lord FALMERSTON would take an early opportunity of
propotWs the appointment of a committee on the subject.
INCLUBERED ESTATES COURT (IRELAND).
Mr. BAOWELL inquired of the Attorney-General for
Ireland whether he was prepaid to state the course which
the government intended to mks relative to the Encumbered
Estates Court?

Mr. J. FITZGERALD stated that It w intended shortly
to Introdacs a manure to perpetuate the system under which
encumbered estates were now disposed of In Ireland. (Heir.
hear.) There would be other provisions for the transfer of
estates and for extending the provisions of the act, so as to
make it embrace unencumbered estate*. (Hear, hear.) He
hupect to lay the bill on the table in the course of next week
or the week after.

u usual. It was but nature' tkat the relatioes of the offioars
engaged in the operations should wish to see the names of
their relatives in COI2IIIIXiC4I with the offieial acknowledgment

of emir seirices, and it had been his anxiona care to commu-
nicate every information of that nature as soon as It cause to
hand. He would make further inquiry, but the noble lord
was aware that it would loot be regular to communicate
despatches from any other than official warm, lest unfounded
Information should be published that might give rise to
disappointment.
THE HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY.—MR. SAMNA-
TYN E.
Viscount BURY rose to cell the attention of the Secretary
of stab for the Colonies to a report of a public meetrgsbn.
at the Red River Settlement, la which it was alleged that a
British subject had been imprisoned by the authorities of the
Hudson'. Bay Company, on suspicion of having infringed
the exclusive right of trade of the company, and to inquire
what inatractiona were given to the officer commanding a
party of the Canadian Rifles, who were stated to have acted es
the occasion is question under the directions of a chief foam
of the company. In explanation, he stated that a Mr. Ban-
natyne bad gone up into the territory of the Hudson's
Bay Company, and on his way was arrested at a place called
Norway House oa the Red River, and was sent down the
river in the euatody, as wan alleged, of • party of the Canadian
Rills. He was not detained, bat returned to Canada. He
was informed that Mr. Bannatyne we. about to lay the
question of his erred in the law court. in Canada, and he
(Lord Bury) was content to lave that part of the matter
there, but what he wished to know wee with respect to the
instructions given to the Canadian
Mr. ROEBUCK—As the Secretary for tho Colonies out
only answer once, I will sulk him a question now. I wish to
know if the governmeet in prepared to do anything with re-
gard to the Hudeon's Bay Company, in pursuance of the re-
tommendations of • committee of last year

Mr. LABOCCHERE maid, in answer to the question of
his noble friend, that he bed received no amount of the
public meeting at the Red River to which he referred, but
as far as his information went, the outline of what took
place was this. Mr. Bannatyne, who was formerly in the
service of the Hudson's Bay Company, and who resided
on the Red River, started off into the interior, with the
avowal proposed of entering into some arrangement with the
Indians, and on arriving at Norway House, his program wan
stopped by the factor of the Hudson's Bay Company, who
told him he woe about to do an unlawful act. He wen not
imprisoned, but only prevented going on ; bet it wee awned
that the warrant for his arrest wee irregular. It i.
that in the canoe in which he came back down the ReldCl
:
a party of the Canadian Rifles, who were on their way down
the river, were also conveyed. That gave rim to a
notion in the settlement that the Rifles had something
to do with his arrest. That was not the case,
their proton°a being a mere accident. The Canadian Rifles
had no special instructions for their conduct; but their
duties were the same as the ordinary duties of the other
troops of the Queen, and they would only aid the civil power
when regularly called upon. He (Mr. imbouchers) behaved
that Mr. Bannatyne had brought an action Against the factor
of the company, and that the company had also brought an
action against him. He believed, however, that Mr. Ban-
natyne had made an appeal to the directors of the company
at home, and he awaited their decisionbeteg ha took el gal
proceedings, and that the company had instructed their
governor in the colony to inquire into and try to settle the
matter. With regard to the question of his hon. and learned
friend (Mr. Roebuck), he could assure him that the govern-
ment, haying regard to the great interests connected with the
Hudson's Bay Company in North America, bad during the
recess carefully considered the report of ties committee and
taken measures in conformity with that report. It had been
his duty to inform the Hudson's Bay Company that the govern-
ment intended to resume the direct government and possession
of the colony—Omar, hail—and to sever all connexion between
it and the Hudson'. Bay Company. Hs had also stated that
the government was disposed to renew their for en-
clones trading in the territory on condition that they only
founded settlements with the authority of the government. He
thowlit that with regard to the two questions of renewing
the &atter of the company and the boundary line of Ha-
pset'. Land, the government ought not to step in to in-
terfere with any rights of exclusive trading which the company
might have ander their charter; and with regard to the
boundary fine between Canada and Rupert's Laud, the
'mamma had dome all they could to have that
settled, and it had been arranged that it should be reger7"dto
the Judicial Committee of the Priv, Council.
THE LEGACY OF NAPOLEON TO CANTILLON.

Mr. STIRLING no to eat as Sat Lead el the Teas.
story if it wore tree, orif he would othata ithonneelon Alta ath
thentle nen= es to the thst, OM the Impey of 18t.,hi
question to the fielo-ollmir Ontillannbenomptid to err
sinat. the lam Duke of Watt bint WNapoleon
Bonaparte, in • oodice cilia ewer= and justifying
the attempt, had, nom Dn. L Mar pea with inte-
rest up to the dellselpsyssint, by dis Nernenr alibi French.
lie said the imponnes el the emits nhant apt
would be nada= a wad= men why abin in-
trude himself in tti Mtn gal thee he night lis Mewed
to state the grounds cm adds be mini tit =math
_nal to
give ea dear a view ash was able of entinthelbeiti hen
connected with the matter. In the reonit =pia at Os
Walewski to her Najmlr s goverment awe 11111111 the fol-
lowing words —" Is Cors=dlNent is the
attitude of the alai amiand. It
aolisr the 1001114 manifeth
by all the mones pow ad el the violence.'
; it is no longer that the west ef the ances,
oak= to rouse opinion amitspeothineetagr ; *b sena
mass, olsvatod to doctrime, peed= =llO. posthed
=smith annapta, the most roc= al which =jute nese
amp will anineniet. Ought, the, the right el =lnn
le robot etch =abet things? Is hothitslitycluelthesembef
=the English legialauon to oontribute to Meth air
and their plans, and can it canthno to obi=
=who, by their .mat ads, place =mine beyond
le of common rIW to= ths ban el konssitpr
who he (Mr. Stirling) nal aere was he =nod vier the
psgth to sem if a dathab Ike that led lea kid in he
Ms die he= by her Mthwty's gonennent that= a
angle word of ennier—(hoor, hear)-or wheat gay saw
rums ware saga ay the law of England amid be
allured—o. law, be It othieth to which it ha =se km
prolondol, and a proof el els thth had ernes that
sa wed IMNI seede In eel& Re led Ned bag In the
maga ma gamy yam is Loam, hod ninellthill ail deems
of society and all kinds at sonny, Mal h • iskostly iiniered
that he had never heard the nag of anenimedien notanth
in this °wintry without the remind= snob • ertmedememd.
When he bow that In the history and in the dynasty el
that family on whose behalf that dupe& was Adeemed
noomeinatioa Ind both countenanced, he had a right to Mate
how such • cheep would be treated in this
.cionn. He
would Molds tin house briny with a few historical facia.
(" Oh, eh," sal" Hem, hear.") He was la the hands of
the boons. (Hear hew) In the year 1819 the lain Duke of
Wellington was la Paris, omployed, at he was all Womb
his life, in the servin of his country. Between the 10th sad
11th February ha that year, at ndfloight, as hie cerriap was
tuning into the gaterilds he ma thed at by two me n,
who wen at now amend, sad broit le MW ma the 7th of
May hi the same year. It wss proud—say, it was admitted
by the counsel for the dellsom—that a plot to semashate the
Doke of Wellington had foisted, and the dinged innate*
was gban of tt. Bat the advocate of the sostned made a
strong appeal to the jury, and asked if they could allow
Frees to he by the fact that two Frenchmen
were onvioted d sseamination ? and they were acquitted.
(Seer hear.) In the will of Napoleon Bonaparte, made at
85. Eska% _there appeared the following paragraph .
" Inn 10,1)00f. to the in-officer Cant:Won, who hu under-
gone a promontion as accused of haying amessinated Lord
Welborn, of which he has hem declared innocent. Can-
aan hd as tench right to amennate this oligarch is he
had to send me to perish on the rock of Saint Helena. Wel-
lington, who proposed this outrage, sought to justify it by
the interest of Great Britain. Cantinas, if he had actually
esmentaled this Ica,
_wend ears slisitsead liana and
weld bare hem =Mel by the ante meths., as ben=
d Prime, la riddling limmilef • gland who led inereevar
=laid the caplialata of Paris and asieby be-
cone nspomsibis fur the blood sit at martyrs,
XII, Inthiloydre, sod se sure of hat=
Mirtairi thip nsuenett, to the tart of wenn."
and ths it was id,
" This radical Is entirely wins wee ems hob, ad
staled with our own ust," Hen, am, was anastinstion
preached in words, which every Fetch oat =Mt apply to
man= con. It was said that Napoleon when he made that
bposM was afflicted with a urn= Irritability anuemting
to , and that he setae somas beat his death he
' =kr a
the thipannisa el brig onarginaled
rt, saints of _
el Wallington. Es (EL
' ) would not be garbed If in tbe thick of
big there lurked ems ad the old " wi-
dens " ern of his country. Doi let us not baba his
tan ; bat let as no whetter 03•• of that bang bad on
deminsied to the soccemor to his keen= Akar what the
aka the "es= d'nat" in 1848 the aggerce ate Puna
111111114101=1/1 fulfilling the =aim at the wID of lb
=le. Bs dill not pay a thelninesth width enema= to
two Mara anions of hues; bat thly eight millions =a
paid. As =aft rating to kis math wart contathel ia
the Masiesur bath= Amgen 1864, end May, 1356. In that
=them betted
No hei ill do isperts of the pronediage ad the
semn. nad those inn wets Muth
end V he meld have awed may opinion an the feels
into which ha la searched he would not ham asked the
quintin ; bat be would rely ha an
whin would ne doubtv e hat
am
Matl ye' stated what sew his conviodoes. But
he cent =Ms at no seek madam. Gas fact via
chnr. To Cannon the wipe of sonninatita were
fay. (Han, bese.) fa the Masi= of =gen 14, 184,
k was Anted that nose el the lagetba, athen those to her-
=MA of whom Continua was not one, were paid in foil. In
the Nononn oaresetiolall, a aim= aresthat Con-
tain had hen In fa the berme( kencs, with
bin= to 364 atm SE lir who bad
Beet el their geld to am thw elm= in On
114141,11, 111011 lON thee pal In SUL Why, then,
end mar whet thaw= dtheransithei. tee the le-
veed to the attempted anon& of tho men =not
Regia la el at tinebenth anthey, ant whin
woe k pal f It was peil bag Oar the drat of
and user tin tine whth we gni aid tan gem 3140r-
bld thee he (Mr. Nang) thrall enenseltholltgenraf rids
Fran that lks ed data sin diritanthe i Panne mei big
ontroge sa comma thithedly; hunk babies done ly so=
tem and as whims el as lint was to be teals IN err
sIMS 011ie illllllllollr. nthektlitheil bathsi theth thi the
ib= alas Meyer Was Fanamilene sower
oral of ale gegatry, alas Month of Ounnathe ma
thm tat laskosi an=lealks bed bun =ea*
a dookins, sod pea* thatch* (Mr. alibi) hd s
right, as en thithadent moteher of perilamint, to ask him

who bad preached that remarkable sermon as eissulaation
In the official column of hie authorised organ ? If be was
guiltless of this offence, as he (Mr. &Ming) hoped he was,
let us have some contradiction of the fact. He would only
now repeat the question he had put, end he would my that
be had only endeavoured to discharge a duty which he
thought to have been undertaken by some one, and he
now a to the noble lord to give him an answer.
Lo PALMERSTON—I think the hon, gentleman
would have shown more good Late—(loud and continued
cheering, and cries of " No, no ")—and I think would have
displayed more of a spirit of candour and justice, if. Instead
of assuming in his statements the truth of the whole quer
tine, he had contented himself with salving how the recog-
nised facts really stand. (Hear, bear.) The hon. gentleman
iniplied that in the whole course of his oboervations.
Mr. STIRLING—I did nut do so. (" Oh," " Order,"
and cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON—I adhere to what I have said,
that the only Inference that can be drawn from the observa-
tions of the hon. gentleman is, that he means to assume, till
the contrary is stated, that the sum of money left by
the first Napoleon to Canal= was deliberately paid by the
present Emperor of the French. (" Hear," and cheers.)
That assertion absolutely fails. (Hear, hear.) There is not
the slightest foundation for it—(cheers, and "Hear, hear ")
—and it was the duty of the hon. member, and every other
person who had any doubt in a matter so peculiar and so deli-
cate with regard to national relations, to have taken the
trouble, which Le might have taken privately, toascertain
how the facts stood before ho brought it so offensively for-
ward. (Great cheering) I will tall the hon. member and the
house what the facts are. It Is quite true that there was a
4ncy bequeathed to CantMem by the first Napoleon by a
will, the executors of which were General Bertrand end
General Montholon. Between the years 1823 and 1826 the
exeeutors in question thought it their duty, on application
'being trade to them by Canton, to bane to him cer-
tain gums on account of the legacy; but the go-
vernment of that day had no participation whatever
in these issues. It I. unnecessary for me to soy that the
soveretpn who then eat on the throne was a member of the
elder branch of the family of Bourbon, who owed his throne
to the victories of the Duke of Wellington, and could not
have been cognisant of, or approved of, the payment of that
legacy. Nevertheless, the executors thought it their duty,
between the years 1823 and 1826, to issue a portion of that
legacy. When the present Emperor of the French came to
the throne, he found that a portion of the legacies under the
will had not boon paid, sad he appointed a oommission to
carry out the bequests of the will. To those commissioners
the widow of Cantillon applied for the balance
duo to him, amounting to about twelve hundred
francs. What did the commissioners do ? They rcfueed
to Wens say of the money, alleging that in their opinion the
testator must have laboured under mental aberration—(loud
cheers)—when he made such a bequest, end that they did
not consider it a part of their duty to give effect to that be-
quest. (Loud cheers.) That was, on the part of the com-
missioners, an entirely spontaneous act, just as the previous
act of the executors was spontaneous on their part, and
neither in the one rase nor in the other had the executive go-
vernment of France anything to do with the matter. (Hear,
hear.) The fact of part of the money having been advanced
to Cantillon between 1823 and 1826 occurred under the
reign of a member of the elder branch °lithe Bourbon family,
and the refusal to lane the remainder was made since the
accession of the present Emperor. (Lend and long con-
tinued cheering.)
Mr. STIRLING—I rise to explain. (" Oh," "Order,'
and cheers.) lam in the hands of the house. The noble
lord has awned me while performing a public duty, which
I endeavoured to perform as temperately—et Oh, oh,"
cheers, " Chair," and " Order.) I leave the matter in the
hands of the house. I understood the noble lord to say that
certain advances were made—(" Order," " Chair," " Oh,"
sad cheers).
The SPEAKER—The hon. member is not entitled to ad-
dress the house a second time. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. STIRLING—AII I have got to say is that the noble
lord
and has thought fit to oast reflections—C. Order," "Chair,"
cheers).
The SPEAKER—If the hon. member has been misun-
derstood and wishes to explain, no doubt the hones will grant
him its indulgent*.
Mr. STIRLING—The explanation I have to give is this.
The noble lord understood me to imply that the Emperor
Louis Napoleon was guilty of paying the sum in question to
this would-be asmusin. I beg distinctly to say, that I re-
marked that I wasunable to form any COUViCtiell on the sub-
ject, and in consequence of that I asked this question.
("Hear, hear," and cheers.) No one can homers glad than
lem to hear the statement of the nobs lord. (Hear, hear.)
Lord ELCHO begged to ask whether any answer had yet
been given to CountWalewski's despatch, and, if so, whether
the government would lay it on the table ?
No answer was given to the question, as far as we could
anmetain.

Mr. BoWYER mid that it would be in the recollection of
the home that the hon. member for Sheffield had asserted
Catively, and as a fact, that the Ip,itcy to Cantillon had
paid by the Emperor of the Frmch. (" No," "Order,'
end cheers.) Re (Mr. Bowyer) denied it. The bon.
paths= turned upon him in a very sharp manner. (Order,
order.)
The SPEAKER—It is not competent to the hon. member
to refer to matters which occurred in a former debate.
Mr. BOWYER—I beg to ask the boa. member for Shef-
field an what authority he made that assertion ? lam sure
the hones must have heard with satisfaction the statement of
the table lord ; and I must add that I think that the question
raised by the hon. gentleman (Mr. Stirling) was a most fru-
P
and injudicious one.
rr
ROEBUCK—I suppose it is not expected that I
should gin say mews to the hon. gentleman's question.

-
THE WAR IN CHINA.
Lad I. RUSSELL said—As hostilities are going on in
Chins I think it is not improper that the House of Commons
should know the realm for those hostilities. I understand
Lord Elgin had certain instructions given to hint, and I beg
to inquire of the First Lord at the Treasury, whether he haa
any objection to lay before the house the instructions given
to Lae Elgin on his departure for China, and the terms
which were offered and rejected at Canton previously to the
late bombardment.

Sir F. WOOD—As my noble friend has spoken, I may be
allowed to answer the que•tion, and to say that it is site out
d rule to prods°, the instructons given to Lord Elgin. As
goon as we receive the terms which be asked, and the answer
he received, we will produce them.
Lord J. MANNERS—Are we to understand that neither
the terms nor the answer have been received by the
government P
Lord PALbfEßSTON—Perhaps the house wilt allow me
to state that we have received from Lord Elgin a copy of the
communication he made to Y* and he settee that he had
received Yeh's answer, but that there was not time to get the
whole of it translated before the mail Wt. We have, how-
ever, got the substance of it.
REFORM OF TEES CORPORATION OF LONDON.

the motion fo7the;;;ldnadisiCii this
Lord J. RUSSELL asked if there would bony objection,
when the bill had been read a second time, to refer It to a
select committee ?

Sir 6.1315YL1 believe there is no objection to the se-
cond reading ; and ea I have stated the only points about
which there is sny difficulty are such u might be best dealt
with in committee, I have no objection to rdm• the bill to a
select committee, bat it moat be understood that it must come
back to a committee of the whole house, and not be treated as
a private bill. On that understanding I will now move that
it red a second tuae. . _ .

The bill was than real a second times and ordered to be re-
fund to a select committee.

THE CONSPIRACY BILL.
Mr. M. GIBSON—The Conspiracy Bill stands for a
second reading on Monday, and I wish to uk if the govern-
ment will proceed with it on that day, or whether, if the
debate ea die India Bill in adjourned, it will take precedence
of the former bUI P
Lord P,

r—Yea, of 00111.11.
.LAMENT OF INDIA.
il--fiir, Iris, to pomace of the
sodas walk I lave Orti to move for Lave to Introduce a
NU Ira &IWO'S of ittiossle koptekess. I rise to pro-
poses WI kr rennet isi teen the Nest India Company to
the crown the gireennent or if Kejesty's But Indian
dominions. Ia mak/ that prepessl, I feel myself bound,
In the first plate, to say that I do not do it in any spirit of
hostility to the Eut India Company ; not meaning thereby
to imply any blame or °enure on the administration of India
by that oompany. I believe the Rut India Company haa
done many good things in India—l believe that its admi-
nitration has been attended with great advantages to the
population under its role ; and it is not upon the ground of
any delinquency on the part of the company, but principally
en the ground of the inconvenience and the in-
*ins character of the existing arrangement, that
I propose UM measure to the hones. Sir, It is
whops see of the most extraordinary events in the
bleary at mankind that these British Islands should have
acquired ouch extensive dominions in nosh a remote part of
the globe at those which we possess on the oostinent of
Doke. It is remarkable, indeed, that these regions, in which
110k111011 and art may be said to have lint dawned upon man-
kind, should now be 'object to the rule of people inhabiting
Weeds, which, at the time when then enters onions were
be a hi* state of civnisetlen, melt u that age abided, sad
of promerity, were to a slate of attar barbarism That
audit a most resmicehis ekeasstsace—tbat a *Aka so

TEEIC 00'
Lard PALMERS

osapalikety m ma me &Mt Moll km meths'
wok Morin dueldws • thew skit we um perm he
I. Del all/ new remetothie k Sobel, that time Mgr
dee dmidas Medd hew best goird, sot by kr Tam of
du Mimeo Mk% bath, weedellea otkeddeek by a
agnisdboowpwoopperki bekeitemertiatahat by the
pinwales aitatrWtl4tdtyei,latsalnTllsdobid
for their mean Is ll* emu new aed toktorprioe. Time
two aitanoketwo -s minket, okider is tha **my of
tits tralL Del larewer esembebk t h weedy Moder
sal whisiwilany Set a WM Ike Si, ist wide the
ohm d imeument is WM Waked pave Saa k
say dim sellue—ie Mkt the OM* or melee tope-
wiletiss Me se ism reelithed—ehoold Moe kW
Weedy eaettlpd W the ma d e um. body of swmedal
gollomit the gemmeat of Awl estewkeeemleles. Ors
sight say toughie that the gemmed sr a oildusees la
the Bud= rate of AMIN, oweidel by wild Wreak and

by wild Indians little removed from the lower creation,
should be assigned to a company whose chief function would
be to strip the wild animals of their fur and keep the
biped' sober, (laughter.) But to think theta great country
like this rhould consign deliberately to the management
of • commercial company, nations of different noes, of
different religions—should give to them the decision of the
questions of peace or war--should place in their bends all
questions of religion—should allow them to subject in-
dependent princes to their rule—that a country like this
should deliberately consign to a private set of irresponsible
individual, ouch function' as these, is without exception, I
believe, in the history of mankind. But this country never
did that directly. This state of things grew up gradually
from small beginnings. The original settlers began with a i
factory, and that factory grew into a fort, and that fort ex-
tended to • district, and that district expanded into a province,
and then came collisions with their lees civilised neighbours,
and injuries to be resented, and attacks to be repelled, and
conflicts In the extension of territory; and so, gradually
from one transactiot to another grew up that condition of
things in which the company found itself invested with vast
commercial interests, and most important political functions,
This state of things existed up to 1784, when an Infusion of
responsibility in respect to its political administrative func-
tions was made into the affairs of the company, and the Beard
of Control was established. Matters went on thus for a cer-
tain number of years, the company exercising its commercial
functions subject to a slight interference by the executive go-
vernment in its political functions. One would have imagined
that in • country like this the first step would have been
/Wowed up by others still more important; and that when
the political functions of the company were interfered with,
and limited sad controlled to • certain degree, the next step
would have been to take them away altogether, and to have
left the company In its original commercial position. But in
this country commercial matters often attract more observa-
tion and excite deeper interest than political events, and the
next step was not to meddle with their political functions,
but to take away altogether those commercial functions which
originally constituted the foundation of their success, and ac-
ugly, in 1833, they were prevented altogether from acting
as a commercial body. From that time the company became,
me may say, a phantom of the original. It had lost that
esemerctal character on which it wee originally formai, end
seatinued simply a political agent by which the adinbastra-
don of India was carried on. Now, air, I venture to say that
the arrangement so substituted VMS • most inconvenient and
cumbrous arrangement. The people of this country are of
opinion that all administrative functions should be accom-
panied with ministerial responsibility, with responsibility to
parliament, with re/possibility to public opinion, and with
responsibility to the crown. But in this case the chief func-
tion of governing India was committed to a body irresponsi-
ble to parliament, not appointed by the crown,
from the choice of persons who had no more connexaMaalt
India than the possession of so much India Stock. I think
that of itself was • very objectionable arrangement. (Henn)
In this country we are slow to make changes. An India-
position to make changes is a wise and useful indisposition.
=clench:rail) igioanatio.Ea( do
TV mischief
cheers. blrut7tPli!
equally unwise, equally injurious, . to cling to existing
arrangements, simply beaten, they edit, when a change can
be made with advantage to the interests of the nation.
(Hear, bear.) What could be more cumbrous than the exist-
ing system which passes by the name of the double govern-
ment ? The right hon. gentleman the member for
Buckinghamshire, during the debates in 1853, when
the last India Bill was . passed, inquired who was
the government of India, and where he was to
look for responsible authority for the administration of that
country. Why, sir, there was • conflict of irresponsibility.
There were the directors vested with power, and the right
hen. gentleman stated on that occasion that they had one
power paramount to everything else—the power of recalling
a Governor-Genera]—by which • very just system of policy
might be at once interrupted, although the Governor-
General had been appointed by the crown and sanctioned by
the directors. The responsibility and the function of the go-
vernment have been divided between the directors, the Board
of Control, and the Governor-Nodal of India. The Bond of
Control was responsible to this Imam reeponsible to public
opinion, appointed by the crown ; the Board of Directors wee
elected by the gentlemen and ladies who happened to be the
holders of Indian stock, many of them being totally ignorant
of everything relating to Indian interests—many of them, per-
haps, !mowing no more of Calcutta, Bombay, and Mabee, than
what they had learned from the candidate canvassing for the
directorship, respecting the presidency to which the cadet-
ship belonged which was promised them fur their votes.
roletar oh," and laughter.) I say these directors, who ma-
in general have great tupwienos and knowledge
of loth, were elected by a body of pencum who have
no pedlar faculty for ehoosing persons qualified
to mars a great empire in the Bast. Then
comes the Governor-General, invested with great sepa-
rate and independent powers. Between these three
authorities It 14 obvious that despatch and unity of
purpose can hardly by possibility be looked for. I
will not trouble the boom by going into • detailed
explanation of the method in which the badness is
dons. It is well known to all those members who have
given attention to Indian affairs that a despatch of the most
important nature goo oecillating between Cannon-row and the '
India House. They are prepared by one party and altered 1
by another party, and then sent back again, and the edema-
turas of • despatch between these two extreme points may
often be as anima aa the celebrated" Adventures of • Guinea."
(laughter.) This system of check and counter-check must
be anm&d with great inconvenience to the public service.
It Is productive of great evil. Suppose, now you were to
take a body of 20 gentlemen generally agreeing in their
views, and make 10 of them sit at the east end of the City
and 10 of them sit in Westminster, and were to propose •
them for oondderation, the probability is that
question
to
bodies would come to different conclusions, not being
able to consult together—not being able to exchange
opinions and arguments and to urnve at a common
result. So it is with the Board of Control and the
Bast India Company, and the result in cases of material dif-
fidence nun neossearily be • middle course satisfying the
proesedinp of neither, carrying into effect the principle of
naltem, obnoxious to both, and probably less ad
to the public service than the opinion of either, If the tIZT:
of either had been entirely adopted. Therefore I say that
the system of docks end counter-checks may be carried too
dm There is no doubt that certain checks are requisite In
eery politiesl medsisse, but you may multiply abeam and
sounter-cheeks to such an extent that the functions
el the machine which they are intended to con-
trol ere paralysed for any useful purpose. (Hen, hear.)
The mediae; then, in which her Mejeety's government
stand, is this :—When Indian queetione are dimmed, it is
the mutant habit of those who take part in the debate to
militia what has been done, and to hold her Mejestje go-
vernment responsible for what hes done. But her
Mabsty's government cannot be for things over
te they have no control—ow This& they coma
=IV
entirely dined. It fea=lices en thermummt
al the day are mewls gime whisk to nn bon
dose without their wasart, and penile, inampeze wen
very mei to tbak ibuleballas. Tar Wm a
I:lladur white has omplal the abistion, pert of
the inquiries of the comittee—the hiring at wads kr the
conveyance of troop to India—l will 11111101 to say
that the majority of gentlemen in this Imes ima-
gine the government to be the authority through which
the arrangements are made. But they see aot as In the
leen. The East India Company are chargeable wilt the ex-
pense of the trsnaportation of troops to Wk. It is She
company who take up the ships, and not the govemmart ;
and although the opinions of the government sway illis com-
pany, still them arrangements are not made by the 0111 LOW 01
the government, but by the camp GI the . It=
then, it Is most desirable rid rib sinks=
be simplified, and should be rad* Is fist and in Mt to
that which it is imagined to be, sill alai it inemody is,
although not pmeneally so, for Whew. I may be
'skid why we take this moment,* the MOYER
(tesimn.ia The hooonvenlawas of gam of ad-
u say Med upon OS Mod= if fie.
and Os tawdry from Ms to Mr by &cam-
ehmem. The mamma Irak M our mili-
tary annesmsts whisk hall during a
tupelo AY not on rain during a
wls to
in tho
end owl& dinning wwe thsa Inds to nest tho
dn. nss, and II was by mans of than
altarta
alossliWilesise tie Ter Mot the gonennont wen ambled
to my on thospentlons of them with mar pronsillsde,
viparoni swam (Hear.:v4hin ihn as farm re-
alellPied Ivo functions of the almbistration at
it is al She greatest im
alt=should be vested when the put&
lily should rest. (Haar, hear.) this country
there can be but one gamma to the mown—
responsible to ' to yobbo °pinker—sad
that imminent cousins of vespeuelble advisory of the
crown, me I my that, in moordsace with the principles and
practice of car oonstitatiai, in amnia:me with the best
oursidwed Wrests of the nation, the vast territory, those vat
interests whin no onsooted with the government of India,
should bo Mod nadir tbs diren=of the Grown, to
be german in the am of the crown the responsible
minions of the mown sitting In sada=trt:
to pertienuent kr
of
cortnot, eased a InVoli a .
u now by • est of guntlems, however however
competent they may be kir the mercies of fandkine err
trusted to them, sre a totally ineeposeible body, sad whom
acts are seldom known to the publb Mash hare)) The
bill which I am about to propose to the bow* I t cia-
fined entirely and solely to • enrage in Its oduidars-
tive orpniestion of the gouramat a t balm We do
not propose to make any alteration with Mid
to the sivengemints in India ; and if pediment dotal
adopt the ammo we are about to this etalp dli-
ii: be se India is otmomaid, 2rflid iIM 1111.!
win come out Mimed
aped
byllNerdoodulre;
II Ocala instead of bong
will
Dimities, and that tis theesstsna sV edminltiorties
be addemil to ha Prodatestlul
es .
al tbs
addnond to no add/M
btt of India laic *NI underprom=isteo Pat
amine Ike Oh ho such wan to wino a wani all
political 1111111•1100 Ow dr bit as lit Mdirth• eme
ttr,o, ldilli avicacengsal saismiTsminle
1112 kn' W
Mir a&
aseues-Jue ban se
ams
MI wiik2:t
who haws tierdYlamd
done ergot I=iri, of pet sonsolgno b" when-Wir
saoseson pia 10.• and how son yon Ord blot to
mainela say grearyseM for a mars company ig is

, The respect which the allegiance which they feel,
will be if that allegiance be given to the
. sovereign of • "rest and united empire. (Hear, hear.) In
' fact, that which gives force to thecompany in India is not In
opulence of the company itself. It is the knowledge possess
t by the people of India that behind the conipsny,and strength-
!' acing the company, is the power of the British empire, Mil
, that although nominally the ruler may be a mercantile err-
elation, the real power they have to look to is the sovereign
and the government of this great country. I there
' fore am satisfied that the transfer of the govers-
I meat of India to the sovereign would, as tar Sc
its effect goes upon the people of India, be equivalent te
a large reinforcement of troops. (Hear, hear.) lan astisdel
that the effect produced would be most advantageous, and
that it would tend completely to consolidate and strengthet
the moral and political influence of England in those van
regions of India. (Hear, hear.) Then what is the arrange-
ment we are about to propose? We wish to alter things at
little as possible consistently with the great object we hale
in view. That great object is to make the responsible ad-
visers of ie crown answerable for the government of at
India countries, as well as all others beyond the sees be-
longing to the crown. We desire that India should
be adialniatmed by • member responsible to parlia-
ment fir the manner in which that country is governed.
We propose, therefore, that the functions of the Court et
Directors and of the Court of Proprietors shall cease an.'
that there shall be substituted for them • president, saidatea
L y a council, for the affairs of India ; that the president
shall, of course, be a member of the government, and shall
be the organ of the cabinet in regard to all matters connectet
with India. Butt as the men ebo have distinguished them
selves in public life in this country are not supp.aed to pos•
sees that local knowledge which le essential to the wise amt.
nistretion of the country, we propose that the president Mal'
be assisted by a council, to be competed of persons named by
the crown, with the condition that they shall either have
been directors of the East ladia Company or shall bar
served for a certain period in India, either in the civil oi
military departments of that country, or who shall have re-
sided there for • certain number of years, and are not con-
nected with local administration. We propose that that
council chill consist of eight members, and that they gal/
be appointed for sight years, that two of them shall go out
by rotation every second year, in order that ancestries
administrations may have the means of renewing the
council, by the introduction of persons of suflicient capacity
who may have returned from India—so that while, on the
one hand, the permanency of being councillors shall make
them independent adviser, and councillors for the present,
they on the other hand, shall not, by being appointed for
lite, block up the way for the acceasion of other persons who
may, from tune to time, appear likely to be useful to the
country is the government of India. Of course, as the pro-
pond late transfer to the government of the day the full re-
sponsibility of the management of Indian affairs, the presi-
dent will be the organ of the cabinet on Indian matters
—just as the Secretary for the Colonies and the Secraary
for Foreign Affairs are the organs of the government erith
regard to the departments under their respective juriediodons,
so there the decision of the president of the council must
be final on matters treated on in the council. We
propose that the councillors, if they shall differ in
opinion with the president, shall have the right to
record that difference, together with the reasons on
which it Is founded, in minutes to remain on the proceedings
of the council, so as to justify them afterwards for having so
differed in opinion with the head of the council. The full
power of the president however will not extend to matters
involving Increased expenses to the Indian revenue. For
purposes of that sort it will be neceseary to have the concur-
rence of four of his councillors to his proposal. In the tem-
porary absence of the president a secretary of state will be
enabled to act for him, and four members of the council will
be a quorum for the enaaction of business. We propose
that the council shall have the power of diet:ranting amongst
them the business; which comes before them, so as to allot
different departments of business to different members of the
council, and they shall make their reports to the board. We
propose that the president shall be placed on the footing of
secretary of state, and that the councillors shall bare a
salary of 1,0001. • year each. (Oh, oh.) We pro-
pose that all the powers vested in the Court of
Directors shall be traneferred to this council, and, therefore,
that all appointments hitherto made by the Court of Dine-
tore or other parties subject to the approbation of the crown
shall be made directly by the crown ; but that all the appoint-
ments in India which heretofore have been made by the
local authorities shall continuo to be made by these authori-
ties, so that no part of the Indian patronage will be trans-
ferred. (Hear hear.) We propose that the president shall
be sble to appoint see secretary, who 'Mall be capable of sit-
ting in this house. It will be convenient for a cabinet minis-
ter holding that situation to have the moisture° of a mere-
tary conversant with the business which may come under
discussion. We do not propose that the councillors shall be
capable of sitting in parliament. (Hear, bear) We think
great inconvenience would arise from their being allowed to
sit in parliament. They would either become party men—
they would necessarily associate themselves with one side or
the other, and then, as governments might change the rela-
tion between the president and the councillors, their
relations might become embarreasing to both parties. (Hear,
bear.) There is one point which has alwsys attracted the
attention of those who have considered these matters, end
which has created • very considerable constitutional dif-
!lenity, and that is—the question of patronage. Many men
have laid that this double government—this cumbrous and

antiquated machine.-alinikrbe done away with. That was
the opinion of a greet samba et gentlemen who in the year
1853 expressed &dr opinions on this subject. But it has
always ism said, "Ws don't wish to increase the
of the goverment, sad fear that this treader would
add to &a patronage of the government" I have naiad
that, so fee as load patronage is concerned, all the appoint-
ments which have hitherto been made by the Deventer-
General and the other authorities In India will continue to be
made by them exactly as before. The members of the load
councils will be created by the Governor-General. An sr-
rangement has been carried Into effect by which all appoint-
ments to erriterships were given up to open com-
petition. That arrangement, of course, we shall cos-
i tinue to maintain. These matterertherefore, are beyond the
nage of government patronage. The appointment to oak-
ships has hitherto been divided between the members of the
Court of Directors and the President of the Board of Control.
We propose to leave the appointment of these cadetships se
it now stands. The reduction from the number of directors
to the number of councillors will give somewhat more pe-
t* each of the councillors, but it will add is no per-
:up= degree ta the patronage of the President at the
Council. It must be remembered that hitherto them hr
boon en enormous native army, and that it is not libels:thy
fa eaten mart- native army will be maintained. Sono
ht.) As civil appointments, as I have
they remain as they are at present. The appoint-
ment to ndaships will be distributed as heretofore, with
psehably the additional condition that the ponces appointed
AA be subject to approbation in a military collies, the
ithel
profianointmen to the regiment dependiai upon their
cienci their in their studies. (Hear hoar.) amend
to this distribution of ceeletshi there Is this me con-
dition—that a certain peoportlon, which we cannot fix
in the bill, must be left to the discretion of the council &Goad-
ing to circumstances. That portion is to be reserved ter the

sons of military and civil ofilairs who have served in India.
(Hear.) According to that arrangement I think it will be
seen that no such additional patronage will devolve upon the
executive government of the crown as to excite the jealousy
of parliament. The army in India will ambit as heretofore
of the Queen's troops forming part of the regalia army in
that country, and of local corps enlisted for service confined
to India. With regard to the Queen's troops no change will
be made. The other will be transferred to the crown for the
service of the country, subject to certain conditions of service
under which they were enlisted, and of course if any of them
should dislike the change, they will be entitled to their dis-
charge, if they prefer that rather than to serve the crown on
the same conditions and regulations as those on which they
entered the service of the company. It is proposed that the
military service, the local military service, shall be mild out
of the revenues of India, and that their services shall be
limited to Asia as long as they are paid out of the Indian re-
venues. At present the limits of the company's Master go
beyond that, and a, tar as any place eastward of the Cape.
But it is proposed that if at any time any part of the local
army shall be employed out of Aaia it shall not be paid out of
the revenues of India, so that this home moat determine
whether the force so employed shell be paid out of the reve-
nues of this country. This will be a sufficient check *Linn
the employment of the Indian troops without the ocement
parßament. (Hoer, beer.)Dastr, it is proposed that,
whereto we treadir to the t and his council the
fannies of the Bend of and the Board of Con-
trol. boa of which will be abolished, the functions and
=1:of as* committes aboll be bold fa the peen-
e repranstbe 'noble met inpardble ableassa But
wßeepo that s
he__bs banish on order shell butralo
ans semersonted
doff bell b
peabon&—Trarb;
one bona maw as onisr
.11 hins II
poalbintant
should be at the than, or if parliament should a& he
then aim wYe< one meth of its nut meeting. Thi,
wID allow a esildent lbw to are told any injury to
the paha enhise th Pon of the order so
baud, while It vin albrat=opportunity of calling on
lb. winnow bra of the 0116118, will& in
hind the waft onto( ceder. Of coarse HIM bear •
to haw a sieve audit of the revenues of Indh
ruanegthdr sgialitaillaa. The bill will prembh hr their cop
smazdz:
szaratweverhilheeathe imposes the:oniagovenunentuid
thimedis=:asa tomirlnditc
as" is le pops& that sa wain& shin be ambled oh
ssien
don mot power tow= mehient Where- lb ths por
ea be bid blab pram& ar
Those am the 'eased eellbse fa bill. its
Of COONS 'Me
will be ghat to as Nelda& etas Meson to allow own
sews es may ho ameesstry to pen Ode Arabes. nab
Mgatzmne Werra* Was reespeey In hisg4th±f
detembentriber air will area
of the pqttiioTtiat is given b awe of holm ask pit
off. n* then, is the seams of the moans.
the &bib will bar enter the oonsidersan coo
hbolg
they shoeldos I nest they all, ghe in hub to
bac when the bR Is be the beds of unibeeskr Ito
"nab sow be be emoblosell is an* as padeta;
quelks,, eheasr or act we shell (bear I, at
sad locilliblt NW= if the nobs the Swift d
yaks et ars has tallied.", or WIWI.'" th"
lima be la's boodle*. mitt the omotbro:
lodes 0S: arab GAM dr &WO
Ili la lay *do AM sr
aims. to mono& the
011.
to r
Or.
11"11.111.410osisiiiiirboteistionot"Pdso istabre oronaboulbodiataviewotitthoallitrce