The Express.
London, England, 1860-07-14 00:00:00

the government would lay that opinion deeply to heart,
and would omit no opportunity of bringing to such a con-
clusion this melancholy and miserable war. (Cheers.)
Lord J . RUSSELL thought that surely if any gentleman in
that house ought to be lammed as to the orieen of this war,
it must be those who daces • minister to go to China.
and who appointed an admiral to command the vessels is
the Chinese waters ; who gave instructions to the minister
they sent as to the terms which he should demand, and
directed the admiral that he stank' be accompanied by an
imposing and efficient hem (Cheers.) The government
like the rest of the house were estouldied, sad at the rune
time grieved, by the reception of the news from the Palle j
but those events were not of their . They did
not appoint the minister, and they did not give him his
instructions, but now it appeared that the noble lord, like
the right hon. baronet the late First Lord of the Admi-
ralty, wished to hold them responsible for the cala-
mities which had occurred. (Cheers.) The noble lord
seemed to think that her Majesty's present advisers were
not afflicted by the intelligence ; but why were they sup-
posed to grieve leas than other members of that house for
the loss of their countrymen, or to apprehend with less
sorrow the length of the war which had broken out?
(Cheers.) They did, in fact, deeply grieve for what had
taken place ; but it was their duty when they received the
intelligence from China to consider what, as ministers of
the Queen, it was best for them to do. The bon. and gallant
gentleman said that they might have taken the same course
as the Americans had done. But the Americans before
they took that course bad not sent an impoMng force
to the Peiho • and they had not e.mredf a Wamity
like that which had happened to us. (Hear, hear.) He
would not dispute whether it was a dignified course that
the Americans had taken, but the time had passed when we
could follow their example. (Chews.)
Mr. T. BARING remarked that the noble lord said it
was necessary for the protection of our trade that we
should go up to Pekin ; but he believed if the
noble lord had consulted those who were concerned
in that trade he would find it was not to Pekin they wanted
to go, or to have • minister, but to those places when
British interests were concentrated. He for one was bound
to say that he lameetadthe policy which this country had
pursued in roped to China, and be thought the course el
conduct punned by Sir J. Bowl-lag was such as to
_give an
impulse to what was called foreign interference in China.
Sir C. NAPIER should like to mak, why did not Lord
I:tester in Chine, and seethe treaty executed?
B. CECIL wanted to call the attention of the go-
vernmeat to any measure which might prevent the recur.
canoe of these wars. He believed that until they could '
restrain the officials they employed they would never be
able to control such men as 3D. Bruce, Sir J. Bowring, Mr.
Murray, and Lord Dalhousie. He believed it was not the
officials, but the English government who employed those
officials who were to be blamed ; and until some condemna-
tion of conduct was pronounced by that house, the
country would never cease to be involved in these struggles
with powers in AIM.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the noble lord who had
jest sat down seemed to think that all the officials who
were employed by the governments of different administra-
tions had neglected their duties, by dragging the country
into unnecessary wars and the her. gentleman who spoke
before the noble lord thithelny condemned the policy of send-
ing a minister to Pe • , as being injurious to the
interests of trade. But did the hon. gentleman
think that trade in a country like China could be
established unless the subjects of this country had
certain rights and privileges secured to them'
Did the hon. gentleman suppose that unless they sent out
en adequate farce to China the persons and property of
merchant' there would be secure' The hon. gentleman
knew too much about mercantile affairs not to know that,
in order to enjoy the advantage' of trade, they must have by
treaty conditions and securities by which merchants might
be secure against injuries from individuals and injustice from
the foreign government. These were the objects for which
treaties with China had been concluded. It was very easy
to treat lightly the compacts which we had entered into
with the Chinese • but did not the hon. gentleman re-
member the acclamations with which the treaty concluded
by Sir Henry Pottinger were received in this country'
(Cheers.) Did he not remember the anticipations which then
prevailed in the minds of commercial men of advantages
to be derived from that treaty, which, though they were
not fully realised—(opposition cheers)—yet led to an in-
crease of our commercial relations, which since that treaty,
and in consequence of it, fully justified the policy of the
government who obtained its ratifications. (Cheers.) He
bad the honour of sendincout the instructions upon which
Sir H. Pottinger acted. The government of Lord Derby
took credit for the conclusion of that treaty ; and, instead
of treating it as • light and insignificant tranasction, they
hailed it as en event of the greatest importance. After-
wards came the transactions in the Canton River, as to
which the opinion which was entertained by that home was
well known, and had frequently been alluded to in that de-
bate. But the subject of the present debate had nothing to do
with the transactions in the Canton river; and it was unjust
to Sir John Bowring to bring forward his name in connec.
tion with the present argument. Sir John Bowring had no
more to do with the present state of affairs in China than
the hon. member who had just spoken. (Hear, hear.) It
was the late government which authorised the conclusion of
the treaty of 'llen.tain. The late government sent out •
minister, to be supported by a sufficient force, to ratify. that
'Meaty at Pekin. Elgin was afterwards commissioned
to obtain the ratifications of the treaty at Pekin. Without
that treaty, it was impossible to conduct commercial &Heirs
at Canton, at Shanghae, at Ningpo, or at any of the ports of
the empire. The hon. gentleman said that we ought not to
deal with the Chinese according to the forma of diplomacy
usual in Europe—that with this poor and simple-minded
people we should not deal as with a civilised nation. But
the lion. gentleman must know that of all nations in the
world the Chinese attached the greatest value to
forms—(hear, hear)—with them forms were a matter of
substance ; and that with • nation who paid attention to
the most minute gradation of forms, it was of the greatest
importance to maintain our dignity, and to assert rights,
the value of which they knew as well, or better than soy
people in the world. the Emperor of China had
sanctioned in the fullest manner every article
and every word of this treaty. But the Emperor of China
knew as well as anybody in Europe that until that treaty
was ratified it was not *binding ; and though he had sane-
tinned every word of the treaty he refused to exchange
ratifications, holding himself at liberty to break every
article of the compact which by his own edict he had agreed
to and adopted. To this date of things it was impossible
to submit—(cheers)—and it was therefore necessary to ob-
tain these ratifications at Pekin. It was not for the pur-
poses of trade that our minister was to go to Pekin ; he was
to go there to obtain the ratifications of the treaty ; and
unless they were obtained there, trade would be insecure at
every other part of the empire. Then the hon. gentleman said,
" Why should we insist upon having a minister at Pekin'"
The hon. gentleman should ask those who sent out the in.
structious. (Cheers.) But he (Lord Palmerston) would
give an answer for them, as they did not choose to justify
their own proceedings. ot him ask the merchants of the
country—let him ask any association of persons who con-
ducted
mercantile operations with China. They would tell
him of the crem, inconveniences they were put to, of the
delays =mooned by officials upon some frivolous pretext
or the other, of the violations of justice and denials
of right to which they were exposed. It was
'therefore demanded by all who were acquainted
with the country that we should have the power
of direct oommunicatim with the seat of government itself.
What other country in the world was there with which wu
had relations of commerce in which we had not the right
to go to the seat of government, and communicate with
that government as to the conduct of our affairs' Not to
have the right of going to Pekin, or of making periodical
visits to the capital—to deny us that right was to place us
in a position in which no country ought to stand, when
such relations existed between them as had been established
between England and China. But the hon. gentleman had
said that it was fatal to the dignity, to the liberties, to the
stahilityof the Chinese empire that • foreign minister should
be resident is Pekin. He said that our proceedings would
produce convulsions in Chins and throw the empire into
entire confusion. He (Lord Palmerston) believed no such
thing. On the contrary, he felt confident that, when a full
and formal ratification of the treaty had been obtained, a
re-establishment of friendly relations with the greet powers
of the West would add to the stability of the empire rather
than endanger it. It was very well to say that we ought
to have submitted to the perfidious attack on the Pei ho.
But what was the feeling in the country' (Chem.) Was
there any man who, upon hearing of that dis-
aster, would not have scouted with indignation
the proposal that we should tamely submit to
it ? (Cheers.) That we should allow our fellow-
subjects to be murdered, our treaty to be torn up as
waste paper ; and because we had suffered these indignities
• and outrages on the part of a nation we deemed less civilised
than ourselves, that we should submit at the bands of the
Chinese to what we should not bare endured from any
other nation in the world ? (Cheers.) The proposal of such
• course would have been scouted with universal indigna-
tion. The government had no choice as to the course to be
outlived ; and the only question with regard to the public
was this—whether they had taken adequate means to re-
dress these injuries, sod whether those means would be so
wisely pursued as to obtain results commensurate with the
cost that had been incurred. (Cheers.)
The vote was then agreed to.
WAYS AND MEANS._ _

On the motion of The—ext;t7cam.oa of the Excliznezz,
the committee was postponed till Monday.