The Express.
London, England, 1866-05-15 00:00:00

LOTTKRIFB.

The LORD ADVOCATE said he was anxious to make
an explanation in reference to an answer he had given a
few nights ago with regard to lotteries. He was then
under the apprehension, or rather misapprehension, that
common informers could prosecute in lottery cases. He
did not then recollect that the act of 1845 did away with
the right of private prosecutions.
REDISTRIBUTION OF SEATS BILL

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having
moved the second reading of this bill,
Mr. MOWBRAY presented a petition from the Univer-
sity of Durham, praying that the right of representation
might be conferred upon that university.
Mr. GREVILLE presented a petition from the town
of Weston-super-Mare, also praying for the right of repre-
sentation.
Mr. DISRAELI said he could not help thinking that the
course which the government proposed to take with the
small boroughs was of too restricted and meagre a cha-
racter, and he begged the house deliberately to reflect upon
the important consequences that were involved in the
change. He presumed that the real object of the various
reform bills which had been produced since the act of 1832
was to render the House of Commons& more complete repre-
sentation of the country and its numerous attributes—the
landed, manufacturing, and commercial interests, pro-
fessional classes,and the interests of our colonial and Indian
empires. For this purpose the small boroughs had been and
were a most useful and efficient instrument. But by the
scheineof thegovernment, the very boroughswhich returned
representatives of the commercial, financial, colonial, and
Indian interests were virtually disfranchised, and the
house was called upon to attack about half of the whole
number of seats in the country. This step had been
adopted for two reasons, the first of which was to give a
representation to communities that had developed their
strength since the Reform Act. On this part of the sub-
ject he went entirely with the government, and agreed
that it would be wise to give them a direct representa-
tion. Whether it should be effected by adding to the
number of members of the house or not, he declined
to take upon himself to say. The question was
a complicated one, and would lead to a discussion
foreign to the general scope of the bill. There was another
mode by which, without increasing the number of mem-
bers, they might give representation to those places, and
that was by reducing the representative power of the ex-
isting boroughs. He thought, therefore, that the govern-
ment were justified, under the circumstances, in curtailing
the redundant representation of some of the boroughs to
complete and perfect the representation of the boroughs ge-
nerally. This great change, however, was also proposed
for another object ; that was, not merely to give represen-
tatives to communities that were not now represented, but
to add representatives to places that were already repre-
sented, and to attain this object many of the counties and
great towns were to have a third member. This proposal
involved • new principle—that of plurality of voting—
which he looked upon with some doubt and suspicion, for
it was not consistent with our electoral system, which re-
coiled from plurality of voting. Once that growth in
population and property was regarded as constituting a
just claim for an increased representation, they would not
be able to stop at three members for the large towns.
Granted that the Reform Act adopted to a certain
extent the system of plurality of voting, that measure
was not immaculate, and Lord Althorp had resorted
to the system as a rough method of settling the
balance between counties and boroughs, and because
the few counties to which a third member was
given were not large enough to divide. Then, with
regard to the means by which the new seats were to be
obtained, namely, that of grouping, he reminded the house
that that was a system which was altogether foreign to
this part of the kingdom ; and he further objected to it on
the ground that it would aggravate existing anomalies by
a process of wanton injustice, and would succeed only in
producing an enfeebled and imperfect local representation.
It was an error to say that there was any anology between
the grouped boroughs of Scotland and the scheme contained
in the bill ; the fact being that the boroughs proposed to be
grouped by the bill were represented boroughs, whereas in
the case of Scotland the boroughs had been unrepresented.
Moreover, lying between the boroughs proposed to be
grouped there were flourishing and populous towns which
were far more important than the boroughs to be grouped,
and which would still be excluded from the representation.
He came to the conclusion, then, that any system of
grouping that was founded on the principle of grouping
represented towns must prove a complete failure, that it
would disappoint expectation, and that the house ought
not to give it its sanction. The safe principle was to re-
duce the redundancy of the old borough representation
and apply it to new boroughs. By doing this they
would add enormously to the content of the country,
introduce into the house popular and vigorous ele-
ments, and at the same time go a long way towards a so-
lution of the immense difficulties connected with the
county franchise, an.l which beset every minister who at-
tempted to deal with this question. The right hon. gen-
tleman then urged upon the house the necessity of preserv-
ing the distinctive character of the county constituencies,
so that they should really be what their name imported.
One of the means by which at present that character was
being perverted was the existence of largo un-
represented towns, which necessarily changed the
character which would be otherwise peculiar to
the county, and if three places were grouped that great
cause of perversion would at once be removed. He coin-
plained that, even as the franchise was now arranged,
there were great masses of the population who ought to be
represented, and that the legitimate representation of
the counties was imperfect, yet the bill did nothing
towards providing a remedy. How, then, was he to meet
the government ? It was not want of time alone that was
an obstacle to legislation at this moment. It was the
want of maturity alike in design, preparation, and pro-
cedure which had marked the action of the govern.
ment. And even now he did not think that the ques-
tion of parliamentary reform was understood by the
country, by the house, or by ministers them-
selves. The right honourable gentleman continued:—
As I come down to the house every day along the via sacra
of Parliament-street, somebody says to me, " I hope you
are going to settle the question." (Laughter.) Sir, igno-
rance never settled a question--questions must be settled
by knowledge. (Hear, hear.) It is not the vexation of an
opposition, from whatever side it may come, which pre-
vents this bill from advancing, but it is that none of us
see our way. I say it with a frankness which I trust will
be pinioned, that I do not believe the question of parlia-
mentary reform is thoroughly understood by the country,
is thoroughly understood by this house, and, though I
would only mention it in a whisper, is thoroughly
understood by her Majesty's government. (Laughter
and cheers.) I remember a pamage in Plato which has always
pleased me. It is that where the great sage descants
upon what he calls double ignorance—thatis, where a man
is ignorant that he is ignorant. (Laughter and cheers.)
But in legislation there is another kind of double ignorance
which is fatal, where there is first ignorance of principles,
and secondly where there is ignorance of facts. That is
our position in dealing with this important question.
There is not a majority in this house that can decide upon
the principles according to which they ought to legislate
on this matter, and there is not a man in this house who
has at his command any authentic facts on which to act.
(Hear, hear.) Then the question arises—What are
we to do? I admit the difficulty. I don't shut
m eyes to the position in which we are
all placed. The country, the House of Com-
mons, and the government, are, to use a classic, though
sometimes an idiomatic phrase, often employed by Dean
Swift, "in a scrape." (Laughter.) I should despair of
extricating ourselves from that perplexity and predicament
had I not unlimited confidence in the goodnature and good
sense of the House of Commons. We must help the
government. (Loud laughter and cheers) We must forget
the last two months. The right hon. gentleman must re-
cress the Rubicon. (Laughter.) We will build up his
bridges and supply him with vesaela (Continuedlaughter.)
The right hon. gentleman isin a position which will enable
him to retire from this question of parliamentary reform,
for the moment, with dignity to himself, and probably
from which no other ministercould retire under the circum-
stances. He must not sacrifice his country, his party, or his
own great name to any feeling of pique. He is still sup-
ported by a majority. He is not in the position of
minister whose reputation and the fortunes of whose
family are staked on an individual measure in a house
where he knows he is in a minority. That has been the
unfortunate position of others, but it is not his. He can
act in deference to what I believe to be the wish of the

country, and I am sure what is the disposition of the
House of Common,. Now, what has he got to do? It
seems to me the most advantageous and most dignified
course for the right hon. gentleman to pursue— let him
at once give instructions that complete and accurate
statistics shall be prepared with regard to the borough
franchise, not hurriedly, but with time and attention,
and in a mature and methodic manner, so that
no person in this house shall rise and be able to say,
" These documents upon which we are called to legislate
are utterly untrustworthy." Let him, notwithstanding
the unfortunate admission which the government have
made, and the mistaken views they have adopted with
regard to the county franchise, gave immediate orders
that the most ample information should be afforded
upon the share which the working classes of this coun-
try possess in the county franchise. Let all that infor-
mation be prepared with care and discrimination, and I
believe this duty may be entrusted with safety and secu-
rity to those who furnished the returns now before
the house, and whose deficiency may be ascribed
to the hurry with which those returns were prepared.
Let the right hon. gentleman, even to-morrow, or after
consultation with the cabinet, give orders that the sub-
commissioners acting under the Incloeure Commission
should visit all the parliamentary boroughs of England,
examine their boundaries, and report upon them. (Hear,
hear.) Let him give up this scheme of grouping repre-
sented boroughs, which I see by the feeling of the house
both sides repudiate. Let the right hon. gentleman—
boldly recognising that the proper way of dealing with the
subject is to appeal to the existing represented boroughs
to spare one-h of their superfluities— let him prepare a
well-digested and complete scheme which will