The Express.
London, England, 1867-06-25 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF LORDS. —74 oNDAY, oPCSE 24.

In the House of Loans )esteroay, the Earl if
ILINURRLZY presented a petition from the corpora-
tion of Dublin, praying the government to purchase
the Irish railways, and stated that in his opinion
the subject was one which was dimervingot the con-
sideration of the government.
The Earl of Deem( admitted the importance of
the queation, and said the govcriii.,. nt had received
a deputation from Ireland, and had conseutedto ap-
point a committee to receive and c.miider any
scheme which might be submitted to them. It
would give the government great satisfaction if any
mode eouid. be devised for giving erect to the
wishes..l the Irish people on this matter.
Earl RUstil:LL moved that an addn.ss be presented
to her Majesty, praying her to give directions that
by the operation of a royal commission, or otherwise,
fu anii accurate information be procured as to the
nature and amount of the property and revenues of
the established church in Ireland, with a view to their
more productive management, and to their more
equitable application for the benefit of the Irish
people. His object, he said, in now calling atten-
tion to the anouudous position of the established
church in Ireland was, that he might secure for it
a full consideration next session. The existence in
Ireland of an established church opposed to the
religious feelings of the majority of the people had
long been a source of discontent. It might be said
that this was a sentimental grievance; but was its
sentimental grievance which led the people of the
United States to separate from this country and
declare their independence I On the contrary, it
was a feeling that the people were unjustly treated
in being taxed and governed by laws made in Eng-
land. The question was surrounded by difficulties,
but he saw no reason why something in the shape of
a compromise might not be attempted. If
parliament were to decide upon making the
Roman catholic a salaried and stipendiary clergy
he did not believe that any success would attend
their efforts. The clergy themselves would
naturally apprehend that their Hocks would be set
against them if they received money from the
state, and he did not believe that the House of
Commons would keep up the whole of the pro-
testant church in Ireland, and grant besides large
sums for the payment of the catholic clergy. Nor
could parliament adopt a course similar to that
now taken with regard to Scotland, and set up the
Roman catholic church in place of the established
church. A third course was the adoption, either
wholly or in part.of the voluntary principle,giving the
revenues of the church to education or some other
object of public utility ; of course giving the present
holders a life interest. That was a plan to which he
was inclined, but it had very great defects in it dif-
ficult to overcome. He came next to the plan of Earl
Grey, to give half the revenues of the established
church to the Roman catholics. That carried with its
principle of equality, and he thought it would be
advisable for parliament to adopt it, though that
was not his opinion last year. He hoped parlia-
ment would consent to consider the subject at as
early aday as possible, with a view of devising some
remedy for the grievance which was complained of.
Lord CAIRNS regretted that Earl Russell had in-
troduced a motion which expressed no foregone con-
cluaiun, but simply asked for the appointment of a
commission. The arguments upon which the noble
earl based his motion were fallacious, inasmuch as
the revenues with which it was proposed to deal
were the rightful property of the established
,iphurch, and after providing for the regular service
of the church there was no surplus. By corer-
throwing the established church, or alienating
its revenue they would destroy a large body of
resident gentry, and would seriously affect the
position of other resident landlords. If they were
to give the revenues of the church to the religious
bodies in proportion to their numbers, the same
principle would hold good in England and Wales.
He asked from what quarter the movement came
of which Earl Russell was the pioneer 1 It was a
mistake to suppose it came from Ireland, or that it
would tend to the pacification of that country.
On the contrary, it was promoted by the Liberation
Society. In Ireland the sole question was the land
question. . .

The Earl of KINIBIRLIST characterised the speech
of Lord Cairns as one of no surrender. Bre ad-
mitted that it WAS the duty of the state to respect
the rights of property, but when the good of the
whole nation required it, the state had a just right
to deal with the reversion so long as it respected
the interest of the present holders.
The Bishop of (*soar moved to amend the
motion by omitting the latter portion and adding
"as to the means by which they may be made beat
to promote the efficiency of the established church
in Ireland."

The Bishop of Dowry said one fourth of the
whole number of protestants in Ireland were in his
diocese, while in three other dioceses, with a popu-
lation of 1,100,000, there wore only 44,000 protes-
tants, for whose religious instruction the state pro-
vided three bishops, three deans, 11 archdeacons,
and 156 clergymen. The plan be advocated was to
take all the revenues of the established church and
put them into one common fund, to be distributed
through one common board ; he would give
the landlords power to redeem the tithes on
paying a certain number of years' purchase ; he
would sell the glebe lands that were not
wanted, and he would reduce the clergy from two
archbishops, ten bishops, and 3,600 clergy, to one
archbishop, six bishops, and 2,000 clergy. He
added, that in his experience ho had not found
that the Roman catholic looked with ill-will upon
the parochial clergy.
The Duke of ABAYLL could not help asking him-
self what would have been the condition of Scot-
land if one-eighth of the people of that country
were put in possession by the English parliament
of all the state endowments of the church. By
the regium donum and by contributing to the
support of the college of Maynooth they were
already committed to the support of more than
one form of religion, and he saw no reason why
parliament should not go one step further in the
same direction.

The Earl of DENBIOII was of opinion that the two
emit questions to settle in Ireland were the
ha and education questions. The Irish church
was nut really regarded as a grievance, but it was
a subject taken up by demagogues for the purpose
of arousing the passions of the people.
The Marquis of CLANRICAILDE denied that the
grievance was a sentimental one, but thought Ire-
land ought not to be altogether without an en-
dowed church, and therefore he supported the
scheme of Earl Grey for endowing both protestant'
and catholics.

The Earl of DZILBY could not entirely assent to
the motion. It ought to be extended to the state
and condition of the Irish church generally.
The • proposition to devote a portion of the
revenues to the protestants, a portion to the
eatholics, and a portion to education would
lay the foundation of much future bickering. He
did not wish the house to declare that the property
of the Irishchurch wasinalienable, but he thought
the whole circumstances of the Irish church should
be brought beforeparhatnent, whoumany erroneous
opinions would be corrected.
Earl (hay thought the question too grave to be
submitted to a commission.

The house divided on the question that the words
"to their more equitable application for the benefit
of the Irish people" be omitted from the motion,
which was carried by 90 to 38. The other portion
of the Bishop of Ossory's amendment was with-
drawn, and the original motion as amended was
agreed to.
The house adjourned shortly before 11 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY, JUNG 24.
IN the H01:181 of Comic:ism, a new writ was
ordered for North Lancashire, in the room of Colo-
nel Wilson Patten, who has accepted the office of
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.
The house having gone into committee on the
Representation of the People Bill,
The Cliapresuoa of the EXCHZQCER stated the
course the government propose to take with regard
to the Boundary Commission. He referred to the
coarse taken with regard to Boundary Commis-
sioners under the first Reform Bill. The names of