The Express.
London, England, 1859-07-06 00:00:00

THE ATLANTIC TELEGRAPH.

...--... ...
On the motion for the second reading of the Atlantic Tele-
graph Bill,
Lord STANLEY of ALDRELIY end that he understood
en agreement had been entered into between the government
and this cusp sy which, be treated, would not be made
binding without the consent of parliament, as he had reason
to think the terse were sot so goods. might have been made.
He was Informed by the public papers that en engagement
bad been male to guarantee eight per cent. up m 600,0001.,
which would amount to a payment of 40,0001. • year, foe
that which other parties wore willing to undertake for
20,0001. • rar
Earl GRANVILLE replied, but very little of what beak'
could be beard in the gallery. He was understood to say
that the government were not aware of say other parties
having offered to take the contract upon the terms referred
to; and he remarked that in making the agreement with the
Atlantic Telegraph Company, the Get of that company re-
linquisbing the rtelusive privilege of lending cables on the
boast of New foundlaed had been taken into account.

of
goverruuest ointment for postal and telegraph's terrines
requ red ..vonsideration. Be instaeced the agreement meetly
made for the commence of the Dublin and Holyhead malls.
An annual sum of neatly one million starling was disposed of
by the goer roinent in contests of this deecriptios without
the vote or approval of parliament
After • fow words from Lord COLCNESTER on the Irish
Mil contrsrt,
Earl GRANVILLE stated that It was the intention of
the government to submit the general question of such con-
tracts to parliamentary inquiry.
THE GIBRALTAR TELIGRAPFI.

The Earl of •ekdwhethtr itwaa
taw, as Le trusted it was, that the government Intended to
eetabliett a telegraphic emn.unication with Clibralter, with-
out the aid deny company?
Earl °RANI ILLS replied that the matter was just now
ander the consideration of the government, but he could not
yet state their intention..
The Earl of DERBY said ho would urge upon govern-
ment the necereity of a very early di cision, Inasmuch se it
would otherwise be quite hotcwible to lay it before parlia-
ment In the present mission. The late government had con-
sidered it a matter of great urgency, and bad actually pur-
abased or ordered the telegraphic cable. No steps had yet
been taken to lay it down, but the cable was in the course of
manufatiture.
The Duke of SOMERSET said it was dmirable some
further information should be eb•.aind as to the facilities for
laying down the cable.
The subject then dropped.
The Petty Sessional Divisions Bill passed through com-
=Rte..
DEFENCES OF THE COUNTRY.

of difference between this country and France, and it leads
to war, a deolarotionof war by the government of that country
against as will be hailed with enthusiasm not only by the
srmy and navy, but by the great mace of the people of
France!! I em asked, wall you rely on the assurances and the
courtesy of the Emperor Napoleon, I will say that I have •
great respect for that high person, but I will not enter into
any explanation on the subject; but I leave every noble lord
to draw his own conclusions and form his own opinion. But
this I will my, if 1 am asked whether I can place reliance on
the Emperor Napoleon—l will say with confidence
that I cannot place reliance on him, because he is In a
situation in which be cannot have reliance on himself.
(Hear, hear.) He is in • situation in which he must be
permed by circumstance., and I cannot consent that the
safety of this country should depend on such a state of
things. Self-reliance is one of the best virtues of private
sad it is equally necessary to • nation. It is necessary
to our defence that we should have a military force sufficient
to cops with any power or combination of powers which may
be brought against us. I know there will be • great oppo-
sition to these opinions—l feel it—l have observed It. But,
my hada, look at the opposite comet. There you will
me an army of 600,000 men, admirably disciplined,
ailsallobly organised, superior to any force of the kind in
Mang& It is within a few miles of our own coast. It is
semposi of brave men and skilful individuals, I. well
teemeenninkaager for conflict, enthusiastic, fond;of adventure,
sew he
is
and above all for military glory. That is
W power w is ranged against you:. I do not ant you
to combat that power aggreceively, but to put yourselves In •
state of sufficient defence and power, if necessary, to resist it.
What have we seen in the last few weeks. Fiume
was at peace—on bar peace establishment—no pre-
paration made for war, she bad no desire foe war ;
she brag a-, nation which could not reduce her esta-
blishment, because she bad never advanced her establish-
ment. So the Emperor Napoleon told us ' • and 1 am bound
to put faith in his statement. And yet in the short space of
6 ot6 weeks we have seerien army of 160,000 or 170.0u0 wen
transported to the banks of the billekt, with 200 'Peas of
cannon with • siege train, gaining two great battles In Its
program, besides being engaged in lesser fights,
and a fleet of war steamers in the Adriatic
conveying another army of 40,000 men. (Hear, hear.)
That is a proof of her power of motion in hostility. Are
we to sit still and not be prepared with the means to meet
each a force? I do not wish to do anything aggressive.
What I insist on is, that we are 'mound to make every effort
for our own protection. I know that when we talk of mach
chives money sinks into Insignificance. It is the price we
pay for our assurance, and ft is • moderate price for such
assurance as we require. I know that there are persons who
say, let ns inn the risk. Be tt so. Bat if Wendt, should
emcee what word' ran paint that calamity, or what
imagination conceive the overwhalraning ruin that will tall
Rpm us. I shall be told, perhaps, that these are the timid
counsels of old age. For myself, I have run my nos; per-
encelly, I have nothing to fear. But to foresee • pail, and
to guard effectually against it, is not to to considered as
timidity, but as the dictates of wisdom and prudence. (Hear,
bear.) I have confined myself to facts which cannot be
disputed, and to Inferences which no man can successfully
controvert. I hope what I have said is in coincidence with
the feelings and opinions of your lordships. (Hear, hear.) I
shall terminate what I he's to sky with two emphatic
words, "Vt. vicele "—words; of the meet solemn and moat
attridcant import. (Loud cheers.)
STRATFORD DR RBDCLIFPR believed
that the noble lord had indulged in no exegeses-
tiow, when he spoke of the pathos of this country
fn ooenexiou with Framer end other countries, and when
he said that the spirit which prevailed agtdnet us on
the continent was such as to cause great anxiety;
when, still mote, he looked to the altered position fa which
the extended application of scientific discoveries to military
purposes and to navigation had placed the relative
forces of different nations; when he considered the in-
cressieg prosperity of this country, the growing demand on
oar service for the protection of distant colonial settlements,
and the extent of commerce which was still continually grow.
leg, and for which extension the country was so iamb in-
debted to the aoble earl on the treasury bench (the Earl of
Elgin), he saw in all these things additional reasons for
adding to the national defences, and fa increased danger from
abroad • more potent reason foe making those pecu-
niary sacrifices which were necessary to placing the military
and naval power of the country in such • state of efficiency
as should enable the government to maintain inviolate the
national honour. (Hear, hear.) He put the quwition of in-
vasion much at a distance. Much as there might be to ap-
probed, be believed that by the exercise of a prudent and at
the maw time a firm policy, coupled with some regard for
right on the part of other., we need not fear that any
danger of the kind was immediately to be spprehended ; but
there were otter meow to which be had alluded that in hie
opinion rendead it imperative that no time should be lost
in completing our means of defence, and placing the country
in • state of security against any contingency that could
arise. Looking at the sentiment which be brlie.ol
elated all bat unenimously throughout the country,
when he remembered that in the debates in that and the other
house of parliament it was difficult to discover more than
shades of differocces of opinion on this subject, and that the
means of defence, if brought into requisititn, were almost
unlimited, he entertained nn apprehension for the fate of
this country. (Cheers.) The danger was in too much self-
confidmice, in too much reliance upon past somas/al, and
in too little regard of the importance of the changes which
had taken place. (Hear, hear.) But he was satisfied, if that

Lord LYRllllVllSTr,ii;ealliniil;•ttention of the house
to the military sad naval defences of the coon'ry, said that
the observations be was about to make were dictated by a
purely defeseivekeling. The coofidence which this country
bad indulged in In former times had been rudely destroyed
by the application of steam to Bevel reefers. In drawing
attention to the state of the navy to stated that in the
spring of loot year the French exceeded us in line-of-
battle *hips in only • email proportion. but in frigates
their superiority was enormous. At the
time, however, we exceeded them in line-of
:Ie
Alm but were still inferior to them in frigates ; and
next year we should ant eed them mill more in line-of-battle
ships, but not in frigates. Proceeding to inform the house
what he cooaidered neeesesey for the defence of the country,
be staled that we ought to bey* a force in the Channel
equal to that if France, sad in addition to it • powerful
r. litres. This would not, however, be eofficient without a
tb et eapsble of coping with env two navies, in case of a
combination between Russia sad Prance. In addition to
this a fleet would be required to command tho Mediter-
ranean and to prevent the French fleets attacking by that
outlet our commerce and colonies, and ale to preserve for
ourselves the control of the overhead route to India.
Another fleet ought oleo to be fitted out for the pro-
le...non of the V. est Indies. la passing to collateral
eutijecte he tocommeaded the immediate formation
of a reserve of seamen, an enlargement of cur
arsenals, dockyards, and slip., In accordiame with the
increased size of modern vermin, and the introduc-
tion of a more powerful machinery Le forwarding the equip-
ment of vessels of war. Oar naval definers, he remarked,
were only a part of the question. It had been truly said that
"steam has converted the Channel into &river and thrown •
bridge across it," for be believed that is • few hours a
mighty army might be brought by railway to the French
pore, embarked with the greatest facility, and thrown upon
the shores of this kingdom. In addition to providing a
sufficient force to oppose such en attempt the different
fortresses and arsenal, would have to he garrisoned. For
this purpose 100,000 regular tnops and embodied =nine,
combined with another 100,000 disembodd but trained
militia, would suffice. Then, too, thee, woe Ireland to de-
fend, especially as ohs might be looked upon t Isewhere as
" In oppressed natienality," differing in rare, leoguage, and
religion from the Eighth. " If we wish," con-
tinud the noble lord, to live Insecurity and to maintain our
interests abroad and in this country we must be ready to do
all that is necessary to accomplish the of jecta which I have
pointed eat. I have experienced some feeling of
humiliation in going through these detail,. I remember the
day—l am old enough to recollect—when every port of the
opposite meat wee blockaded by English ships. (Hear,
hear.) I remember the victory of Cemperdown—l remember
the victory of Cape St. Vincent by Sir John Jervis-1 re-
tombs, the great victory of the Nile ; sad, last of all, the
triumphs of Trafalgar, which almost annihilated the navies
of France end Spain. I cannot bet contrast that period
with our preset t position. I remember,too,the etpulaionol the 1
, Preach, by victory sites vietory, from Spain, and a British
' army established in the south of Frames; and, last of
that great victory by which the war wee terminated. I
cannot let my recollection run through this aeries of events
without &feeling of humllhties when I °Oneida,: what Is now
urceseary on our part in order to secure our safety. I may
he asked, why I think that such a necessity should arise
I may he told, are we not in alliance with France and in
friewlehip with Russia What other power can molest you°
Tie aaswer which I give le a short and simple
ono : I do not cheese to live In dependence
on the friendship of France and the forbearance of Russia.
(Qier, beer.) I desire to rely solely en our own vigour, and
our own exertions, end our own intalligesoe, (Hear, hese )
I ask, is there say noble lord in this house who dispente from
the rind*. *hies I have laid dews? (Neer, hear.) 1
»J ace to fad that there is not. I sin lorry to be obliged to
say that we do not stead very wall ne the continent of En-
rope. (Hear, hear.) I do not think that lets events here nt
all Improved oar condition in that respect. (hirer, hear.)
will go further. I do beamed& the result of my ewe care-
' fed observation, that Hain Ma asy plasslble mom

the French, but with the Preach people—their hostility to
England—and pointed oat the defsecelesa sauce of our
shores, referring at the mere time to our fanner victories over
them, and sizing up the whole with something like • *neer
upon the government of that people, be meat say that such
language, idling from such lips, wee not calculated to pro-
mote peon. (Hear, hear.) Nor was such language at all
requited le awaken either the country or the government to
• sense el the deity of making sufficient provision for the
nalloweldshelle& It errs impossible to read the comments
of the =tide pus, or the speeches meets at public meeting.,
end doubt the readiness of the people to make all necessary
pecuniary eeefifiOS for the purpose of placing our
shores rn a state of perfect defence, or to qua.-
lion the tact that the feeling which actuated the
noble and learned lord was fully participated in
by the public at large. The noble and learned lora thought
it asemsery, no doubt, to excite the feeling of the public ut
war to induce them to submit to the burdens which the in-
mates of the military and naval reeonrose of the country
wield mission ; but he would submit to the noble lord
whether there was not some imager of exciting it to a den-
gross extent. (Hear.) The nob!. Iced had talked a great
deal shout the danger of =amnion. At this moment be (Earl
Granville) believed invasion was utterly out of the queetk'n.
(Hear.) While we were on the best possible terms with the
Vatted State., while Russia was unprepared for war, and
while France was engaged in a great and bloody war which
taxed all been resources, that was not precisely the moment
when this country need be under apprehemon of invasion.
(Cheers) At the /mine time he quite admitted that it would
be absolute folly on the ;art of this mmatry not to take those
puma- ntions which would st anthem rellemuntotenerely horn
'newton itself, but from that alum sad fear of Mouton which
could not but be mid Worker is our osemene, and the
progress of our preeptrity. It, however, Users was any feet
morn clear than another teem he teschingeot political ex-
perience, it was that if you =cited the fears of danger to en
unnatural degree, the feelings elms excited would be fol-
lowed by a reaction of an economical character that would
hereafter effectually prevent whatever government might
be in power from continuing, in times devoid of excite-
ment, those measures for the permanent maintenance
of our defence' in that state of efficiency in which
be thought it was absolutely necessary they should
always be. Bo much as to the feeling of the country. Now
as to the question whether it was necessary to stimulate the
government. His noble friend near him and himself bed
already bad occasion in that house to make the most explicit
statements of the views of the government on this subject,
and he was glad to have the opportunity of declaring that
those statements were not the mere expression of individual
°Orion, but of the organised and well considered views at
the whole cabinet. (Cheers.) Those who knew enythieg of
the views of his noble friend who was at the head of the go-
vernment, as expressed both in public end in
private, must know that for many years past
there was no one person except the late Duke of
Wellington who was more constantly impressed with the pa-
ramount importance of keeping up our means of national
defence to the most perfect elate of efficiency. (Cheers.) He
was in some doubt as to what the noble and learned Iced said
as to the state of the navy at the beginning of this
last year, and he thought the noble lord's dr
servatious must have been founded upon what
had been said upon a previous occasion by • noble lewd
a member of the late government, that when that govern-
Meat succeeded to office the navy was in a state of
impotence and decrepitude. The noble and learned=
informed them that the iaboduction of steam navigation into
the effective force of the navy had occasioned • great differ-
ence as to the relative powers of the navy of this an 4 those
of other maritime nations as wavered with former time'.
There could be no doubt that was the case. The effect of
the introduction of steam in the navigation of war vessels was
this—that it was now quite possible for the French nation
to equal us, and thus to put an end to that superiority
which, while soiling vessels only were employed, we enjoyed.
As soma as steam became generally introduced, as steam
wee aocessible to both, it was but a question of lime to place
both cm a footing of equality. But in 1862 we were superior to
the French by 52 steam vessels, and during the whole of the
Rumba war we maintained that superiority in the Baltic and
in the Black Sea. We had at that time, he believed, 284
steam vessels., breides 107 mortar vessels added to the navy.
In 1866 we had 16 large Memorable. in excess
Over France, and although we might have been
is some degree deficient as regarded screw fri-
gates, in small @Mum musts of various sizes we
were superior to the French by 254. He now coM to the
cessation of the war. It would be recollected that at that
time the government were premed on all aides to reduce the
military and inaval establishonate to the peace standard.
They did not, Wormer r, to the full extent comply with those
Teri sentatione The navy was—notwithstanding the urrat
demand for seamen—kept up to the extant of 1,000 men
beyond the ordinary pesos standard, end the shipbuilding
establishment was SO per rent. in exam. The charge against
his hon. friend (Sir C. Wood) was that be spent too much
money in building large ships, and when the late govern-
ment came into power, within ten days the First Lout of the
Admiralty (Sir J. Pskington) went down to the House of
Commons and said that the naval estimates of the late
government were so large that the government
could not take upon themselves the relict eibility
of proposing them to peritametit without further
examination. They took another month to consider them,
and then Sir J. Yekington proposed a reduction in three
main items; Bret, with regard to the verges of seamen;
seeptidlytin regard to the charge for ateamenginerfor vfiteele ;

(Hear,
danger were looked full in the face, sad the meanest our die end thir wire regard to the intended, ,eu,teeeltan of Kee-
posal were free)y, but prudently, employed, so far from fear- ham-yard cod these reductions he "Ma tea IfaVernavat
tog the hour of trial, that hour of trial, when it arrived, after ample inquiry and careful deliberation, were convincei
would be the most glorious day that ever shone upon the mole be made without in the aliebtest degree impairing the
&minim of this country. (Cheers.) efficiency of the navy. His:right hon. friend (Sir C. Wood)
Earl GRAN VILLE, while admitting that there was much remonstrated, end then the right hon. gentleman attempted
in what had fallen from the noble and learned lord opposite to prove that the calculations of Sir C. Wood as to the differ-
that was entitled to consideration could not but expess • ensbetween the English and the French navies were under-
doubt whether any practical goal could arise from die. stated, and to show that our armaments were greater
cessions of this nature. lathed be was not sure what In proportion than they had been represented by his
object the I noels and learned lord had in view. If it predeceesor in office; and the whole argument of the right
was to stimulate the country,
neamily of placing
or to stimulate her hon. gentlen en was directed to the ceeclusion that Sir C.
Majesty's government as to IM
Wood was wrath in proposing to ktep up the navy to the
the national defences in a state of efficiency, that war need- force contemplated in is estimates, and that parliament
lees, for the noble end learned lost could not but be would do wisely in making a considerable reduction. Sub-
aware that both the country end her efejesty's government frequently reference Was made to the activity in the Preach
were fully alive to ihet necessity. And with regard to the doceyante, and the late government at a euherquent period
effect upon other countries, he could not but fear that the of the maim found it necessary to bring forward addittonsl
result of such observatiom as bad fallen from the noble and estimates, and also expended Urge mom for which they were
learned lord was likely to be Injurious. They knew the afterwards indemnified by parliament. What they did wee
weight of the debates that took place in that house, especially this—they tratisferred the money voted for one branch of the
es inch questions es that all-important one, the defences of navel establishment to another, and thus they were enabled to
the country, cod it would be vain to deny that, as individual maven a number of ships and mine them efficient for aerates.
members of that house, they were each deeply responsible He did not say this with the intention of coating any blame
he anythiag that fell from them. During the first three else the lett Board of Admiralty ; on the contrary, he ad-
reentbs of the preeent parliamentary year there had been witted that from the beginning of the year they had availed
three debates touching upon very dedicate matters coneemed themselves of the knowledge they possessed, sad the power
with our relations with foreign Wantriaat and he believed he they had of meeting the demand made men them by public
might say that these debates were conducted with a prudence opinion and had allows the most laudable energy and sed-
ated discretion which were approved of by the country atterge; Thy In increasing the power of the navy, and placing it upon
and the effect on the Continent, even in countries where free a more satisfeDory footing. When the present government
institutions were the least admiral, was, he knew, to excite nine in, et the very earliest period they increased the navy
great adesinuien of the itstitutions of this country. Since the estimates. Those 'etiolates were very large, unquestionably,
lament government bed &model to power their brdsbipelad but he believed them to be neonate, ; end when the time
eat four nights, sad on each of Hem nights questions had came to discuss them in another place, Harm was any diffe-
been brought forward upon the important sad delicate goer ream at all, he thought it would be frond that the cob!,
limo( our relations or t ossibie Melons, with foreign you era, duke near him (the Duke of Somerset) looked a hole further
and in a manner which was calculated to irritate and to per than the late government. (Hear, hear.) With regard to
elpitate those very evils which it was the object of all parties the army, it was not necessary for him to enter into that
to avert. (Cheers.) He did not see a noble fries I (Lord subject, as the noble duke near him (Newcastle) had stated
Howlett) in his elace, and Ms absence made It more the extent of increase which the government considered
easy for him to express his admiration of his noble friend's necessary. He admitted that the military force we had now
eloqueece, and of that facility of expression which he die was not large enough to west any sudden exigency
play ed, sad which was the more remarkable in one whom of a formidable chencter, and he thought that it wee the
previous career had afforded him but little opportunity of duty of the government to consider the questioa of the army
Lemming ',mutilated with the practice of parliament. But and the defences of our arsenals as well a to consider the
while he acknowledged the ability of his noble friend be elate of the navy, to make them If possible Impregnable, and
moat say that the tone which his noble friend had to apply themselves in the most careful manner to the intro-
adopted In speaking of • government in close end auction of those improvements of practical science which had
friendly alliance with her Meje.ty's government, and still produced weapons of so deadly a diameter as were now for
more the remark@ he ends in reference to the French nation, the find time used in warfare, sad to consider the most
wets by no means well reticulated to promote the object effective means of defence againsteuele weapons when direc'ed
which he brew his noble friend had in view—(heme hear)— against ourselves (lieu.) The system of an embodied
sad contested moat usfavonrably with the prudent conduct militia which he believed would be satisfactory to theeountry,
of the two noble earls now Jetting together on the opeosite was also occupying the attention GI the government, end the
benches (Lords Derby and Melembury), who, having so re. establishment of a volunteer artillery, to which
cently felt the responsibilities of office in conducting sego- he attached great Importance, se well as volunlere rifle
Milan upon important and delicate questions of foreign corptwooldreceivefromthexovernmentevery encouragement.
policy In a reeds like the present, wisely &totalled frsm any There was no member of their lordshit s' house more con-
observations which might peesibly have the effect of ember winced than was every member of her Majesty's present ge-
mming their soccessors. The noble seri (Derby), who was vireo:mut of the paramount necemety of placing the defences
not generally backward in taking part in the debates in that of the cottony in a properly efficient condition. They had
house, had courteously abstained from taking any hart to the no reason for concealment, and however much they might
die:melons which had thus been brought on, and the noble regret the present state of Europe, and however anxious tbey
earl beside him (Malmethury) had confined himself almost were to restore peace, they were fully alive to the duty which
entirely to defending hiuterlf against certain attacks which was incumbent upon them of taking care that this country
he thonebt bed been brought against him by two members should be placed in a position that would not only enable
of her Meneate's preseet government. Hs regretted, how- be to meet whatever event might hempen, but that
ever, that be could not compliment all the members of the give her that influence in the councils of Europe which
late government upon having adopted the eases prudent wheelers. the proper time to coerces it should arrive would
coons, Anotber member of that government had told ammand respect and conduce to the restoration of peace.
them, with that force of langusge which etereotyped But while they were enraged in these difficult, responethle,
everything which fell from his lips, that celibately the utt, lope and important verb, . thee were permitted to retain
et hayseion would be made. It was Sited comfort to him their aces as Fermiers of her fenjeety's gevernment, be
(Berl Granville) to know that prephee'm when uninspired hoped their lordehiee would extend to them their meadows
were amongst the moot fallacious guides to political conduct and support, and that they would retrain from embarramieg
be the world—(" hear, hear," and a laugh)—but if anything them by raising unnecessary dl'eueoleas upon questions on a
could make such prophecies result In truth it was the per delicate and difficult nature. (Hear.)
mulgatim of them in the meaner in which they hod been put The Earl of HARIIWICKE contended that ths late
forward by noble lords whose words utter. I in that house government. on leaving office, had left the navy ID a position
fell with so much weight. Doe noble earl, also a mother of which, if followed out, would at all events provide a large and
the late annulment, who during the last year was altogether powerful armament ample for all the means of defence.
silent en the subject of the national defences, the moment he Let no time be loot. Let them raise 100 mall of the line as
was freed from offidal responsibility, like noon as possible, sad let them not judge thecest,.es it would
The post-boy's horse like glad to miss be Me best means of strengthening their allisnose, and of
The rumbling of the wheels " giving effect to their diplomacy. He believed further, that
strengthening their fortilicatium they would be giving the
—(a laugh)—galloped on, contrasting the state of oar navy Ilreneh Emperor tee best argument for restraining the war-
with the meal ewes of other maritime median' and the like ardour of his cole it people.
danger of invasion' forgetting that if the satimal
defences were In a state of inefficleacy, the govertirmat The Duke of SOMERSET said that he had never intended
of which the noble earl was a member wee at eo attack the late frouslument, but if mkt* lords said test
lest as responsible as that now la office. And Mere when the measevenve piety mem into rower, they found the
the noble and learned lord (Lyndhotio), forgetting that naval forces in a defective state, they should remember that
moderation end prudence which usually characterised him, a month after the We saidsMy _wen appointed they
spoke of the excitement existiag, got with the Emperor of themselves um down with tosd estimates. Surely

they must lave thought the navy in en and. ut
state, or they would not bus incurred the responsibllity
of such • omen (Hur, bear.) He found that the intent-
, genes of the growing superiority of the Fronds Maze navy
arrived in this country in Jaly, 18.58, and at that time there
wee plenty of time to increue the estimates, bat bathing of
that kind wu done; on the contrary, all the task and job
work In the dockyards was stopped. In 1859, he admitted,
the late government west vigorously to work, but that was
no juatitication of the language which had been held that
night. The noble and learned lord's speech wee not prase,
but war, taunting France with her former defeats, and pro-
mising her people • repetition of them. If that wee the
language which the noble lord called temperate, what would
it be when be "permitted himself to become excited ? In his
(the Duke of leimeteet's) opinion it was =Mine to use
such language. The noble and learned lord might have
helped the government with some ureful obeervatione,
but he might have given hie advice without clothing it in
snob exciting language. The noble and learned lord should
recollect that his words would go forth with all the weight
which his high position and great reputation attached to
than. Some years since he remembered that the noble and
learned lord wee all sympathy for Italy, bat now he uttered
nothing except wrong spinet France. He (the Duke of
Somerset) bad done everything poesible since his accessims to
office to increase the defences of the country, and had even
added to the estimates of his predecessor, who bad taken only
fur six months' wages. Had he retained the estimates uhe
found them It would have necessitated the dismissal of 3,C00
men from the dockyards, arid for that reason Le
had token an increased vote in order that the
works might continue without interruption. But if they
were to have this exciting language "genet France it would
be stecessery to oome down for much larger estimates, for
such language would sooner or later create war. Indeed,
such • state of armaments as was proposed would be nearly
as bad as war, and they would have all the expellee of wet
while they had the name of preterviog peace. It was one thing
to put their armaments on an efficient footing, and another
to use language which was calculated to drag us into a war.
Lord BROUGHAM said that the whole matter lay
In a narrow compass, as they were all agreed as to the
neemeity of defensive preparation. Europe was swarming
with greet Annie, led by individuals who wielded absolute
and irresponsible power, and therefore England
was bound to put herself in such a position as
to be Indiffaent to whatever might happen. Ile
deeply lamented what had been said by • noble and
Ipliant friend of his on a former evening respecting the feel-
of the French people. He (Lord Brougham) denied
that the French were anxious for a war with this country;
on the contrary, he believed that they entertained an entree-
' sal desire to preserve the most friendly relations with no.
Still it wan not right to allow • man like the ruler of France,
who wee plumed of Irresponsible power, to go ever so
little beyond his rights. It wu an old maxim, that when
you permitted a man to go a certain length for you he would
be very apt to go something further fu T himself, and It was
our duty to be prepared for all eventualities. Still, se they
were all agreed on that point, his noble and learned
friend would forgiee him for saying that in the
observations he had made he was merely performing
the rather superfluous office of preaching to the converted.
(A laugh.) lie trusted they would evince no &street of
in. French people, while at the some time they took all
proper care of the defences of the country.
The Eel of ELLENBOROUOiI offered his most grateful
thanks to his noble and learned friend for the important set-
vice which he beheveed he bad rendered the country that even-
ing. 111, noble and leaned friend had put en end to that fatal
self.deception in which this cottony had for so many yews
slept ; be distinctly showed them whet they had been and
li what they were, end that they wore at the present moment
in a state of circamstances the moat perilous that had been
witnessed wince the commencement of the century. lie
felt convinced that his noble and learned friend
would not after the meet mature reflection he
Inclined to alter or relict • single word he
had utered that night. The people of this country bad by
all their oratere been led to think much more of their poet
than of their present, and not at all of their future. They
had been resting on the memory of put glorify and fancying
that they were still on the morrow of Waterloo and Tra-
algae. It was now twelve pure since he had called their
lorips twenties to the changes which had taken place in
the circumstances of Europe since 1816, and urged the
calling out of the militia or some other means of Internal
security. Of all nations in Europe, we were the most
velneratle at see, because we had our entente" and
commerce to defend, said we were pervious on the
whole of our frontier, if our navy were not strong
enough to protect us. Noble lords on his side of the
house had been complained of for their freedom of speech,
hut where, be would ask, was freedom of speech to take
refuge if it were ones banished from their lotdships•
boon? What were the circumstances of the present war,
and now had it ben deers ibed on both:eides of the house ?
He had heard it called an iniqedous war, end no one had
called that epithet in question. He believed it to be a wee
without justification, even if its object had been a good one, in
consequence of the wrong means which had been adopted for
the accompliehreent of its end.. But he did not believe its
petended object to be its real one, but that it was desired
abogether to dietrarb the existing distribution of power in
limp% and the eatabliehments of 1815. France appeared in
this war almost as a new power in Europe. If it were
true—and be accepted the declaration to that effect
of the Emperor of the French—that she had
made no preparation, if, without any previous preparation
the Emperor of France had in the comespreparation,
of six weeks been
able to piece 260,000 men, perfectly equipped, upon Italian
soil; ffhe bad been able to send 80,000 by sea with the most
perfect erraegesoent as to peuvisione end munitions of war;
and If be eoald, in the same spate of time, despatch 30,000
or 40,000 men In • powerful fleet to the Adriatic, ha (Lend
Ellenborough) contended that there was g od ground for ape
prehension in this country, sad that it wee the bounden duty
of the government to place it in • position of unattackable
security b 7 the iIICIO4JB of our fleet. He must conform him-
self dissatisfied with the observations of the noble President
of the Council, as what he desired was . that our de-
fences should he placed In such a position as not
only to complete oar security at home, but to
give effect to our diplomacy abroad. During the
last twelve yeses all the pewees of Burette had been exhatut-
ing their finances in military preparations, and their conse-
quent financial weakness was what be meet dreaded, because
being crushed by expense, they would most likely meek re-
muneration na combined attack on ilia country. Our only
security from such a combination lay in our own strength ;
and he hoped that the government would adhere to the ex-
pressions which first fell from the noble duke, rather than
fellow the noble earl with his own language—be must wets'
himself far from satiefied. Au adhesion to the first coulee
they had
try. indicated was the only thing to give confidence to
the coun
The Duke of ARGYLL said that the swrpielcns of the
noble earl were wholly unfounded, as there had been no alte-
ration in the intentions of the government; but the feet was
that noble lords were rising in their demands every night.
One night it was 7( sail.of-the-line, now it was 100 sail, and
there was no reason for hoping that it would not still go on
increasing. (Hear.) If they were to take the 'perch of the
noble and learned lord es the measure of what vas required
for the defence of the country, they might at once bring kr-
ward • war budget, and prepare a navy calculated to resist
the combined navies of the world. His noble friend the Pm-
sideet of the Council had no intention of bringing on a party
debate when he alluded to Sir John Pakington'e ?abrades,
but merely bad quoted them ex showing that they had not
been curtailed by the present government. Noble lords should
remember that they might sneak' war eetimatss fore time, but
that the moment the war panic was over there would be an int-
med isle eel I for eller retrench meet. During the adult a istreeon
of the noble earl (Aberdeen) there wee a gents,' call for
defences ; but then the alarm wised away end non ro. h-
Mett Cases into funk*. Next came the Cnrucon war, and
tits moment its
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that the country was about to be invaded, it wee thew duty
to put its defences in the beet order. The noble duke Oppo-
site was afraid of reaction amoapt the people against high
navy estimates, but he would not be under the least alarm so
bog es the pretext great armament. coetinned on the cm-
tinent of Rumps. His object in reply was to point out to
the noble duke at the head of the Admiralty that by the
repeal of the navigation laws all obligation on owner.% of
British merchanituen to employ three-foatths British sea-
men bed been removed, and that such rep el would throw
great difficulties in the way of manning the fleet. He trusted
that the noble duke would give the hint his utmost attention.
The subject then dropped.
Their lordships adjourned at 8 o'clock. .