The Express.
London, England, 1858-04-13 00:00:00

LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 13, 1858.

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and would give the power of bath*, to mother body—they
would chime the same but retain the austere' ; another
plan is that is which was banded the pried* of the
bill introduced by my aohle friend the late heed of the go-
vorsimet,vio., a wisda•sst tithe crown with a ermacil ; • third
plan to that brought Were the house to-sight by the pretties
from Manehasam, that there should be • meretery d elate
with solmalthele allure, similar to the otherssereterles. I do
sot now with to dimes the merits of any seer/ those pima;
bet I do think that if • few resolution' were deemed in •
temmille of the rehab hare we *heel& be waled to mer-
lin abet was the "thin ef the baths, whither it would
ideal math In Me er in mew the lest India Company ;
glare It well elsk to have • Onalil, and if • oouadl,
bow he 0 wee to be Independent and bow zicaninated ; sr •
marekiey of Mate wittiest any comeell. Than me some
ether plats, but not Emu of very peat Importunes,
whether the government la Las itself is to be
its in early the MIS theta It emus to me
It would be meet amethient if the gormand thinks
that nook a course should be adopted. It may iced to some
hoe et Nos at fret, but it will be a pin of time in the
mid if we ameider them resolutions. If the govertuniat do
not think It to adopt this mum, I know it would be very
preespluous be sew Individual member of perlianrst to
pope, reselatleme ; but et the slues liens I led so strongly
the beeraveniume while mem moue tees dimes rag the
most imparleat ablesethes to semmieles 111 the NH, I asset
bet seam that It ammo In am the ealy ear le evade the
peed evil and elide • thesessioa In the home fres hoe any
Arty Maim wadi be to piece balm the he e, In the
form of meallethaa the cidef pieta to be decided. I
mast my we would be piped in groat difboulty
In damming in comadlles potato of substantial ha-
potence, mired up with point" of Inferior and subordinate
importance, and with the particular wording of emery claws
which was intended to cony the law into effect. I do not
know what the government may think of this suggestion,
but I could not forbear from suggesting this course to the
house , it appeared to au so long ago as last December that
this was the mum which ought to be adopted. Neither of
the plans which have been proposed may be acceptable to the
boom without alteration, and I therefore venture to make
this suggestion.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Mr, the
proposition which the noble lord has just made, It most be
obviotra to every hon. member, is one which would afford a
most convenient mode of dealing with the question of the
government of India. A different courts ha. been adopted
by the •dmtnistr•tfon„ but I am quite ready to admit
that the course now suggested I. better adapted for the con-
venient dboussien of this gnat measure. (Hear, hear.) I
ass also. des, free to admit that during the ream her Ma-
jesty's government have had this subject under their man-
aeration, and were not insensible to the convenience of such
• comm. The house will, however, recollect that in the
first attempt at legislation on this subject, the noble lord the
member for Tired= proceeded by way of bill ; that course
was sanctioned by the house or far as permitting the bill to
be hdrodnoed. There was • general feeling in the home that
no unnemasary delay should take place on the subject of
legislation in India. The present administration adopted the
same mums, and brought In a bill. The two bills are now
in precisely the same situation' in the house. The principle
of neither bas been adopted, but pertain= has been granted
for their introduction, and both ham been read a first time.
No doubt, sir, if we had originally proceeded by resolution,
the diminution would have been attended with much advantage,
the task of legislation would have been facilitated, and there
would have been no great delay in the long run ; at pre-
sent it is Impossible not to be sensible that we have • pro-
spect of a lengthened and animated di/minion, if not of •
; party struggle, and not that prospect which the country
would look to for a satisfactory settlement of the question. I
should certainly have felt great difficulty, after having
myself proposed the bill, in slaking the house to consider
these resolutions, but as the noble lord has raised the ques-
tion, I shall not shrink from the task ; at the same
tiros, as the noble lord has introduced this matter,
I am sure every gentleman most feel that the
resolutions could not be in better hands then his. If the
home, therefore, should consider it expedient that this course
shall be adopted, instead of coming to a single vote and
&ounce on so many and such various questions, we shall
lam en opportunity of proceeding by neolution in a com-
mittee of the whole house, and obtaining their opinions after
full discus nn. On the part of the government there will be
no objection to such • course. The house will feel that if
we an to adopt this course, there should be no unnecessary
delay in doing so. The two bills are now in precisely the
same slats; but if we are to decide in a committee of the whole
house what are to be the principles on which the fatale
government of India is to be framed, we should proceed
without any =smeary delay to diem:us them, whether
the teak of introducing them falls to me (if it
does, I will not shrink from the task), or whether
they are to be proposed by the noble lord who has suggested
this nouns. No one pores= more authority in this house
than ths noble lord; no pashas earned it by greater efforts, or
more richly deserved it. I must say, it would be most agree-
able to myself that the noble lord should propose them re-
, solutions—(a laugh)—bat Ido not shrink from the respon-
sibility of doing so. (Hear, hew.) Oa one point we are all
agreed—that there should be no unnecessary delay—and that
the earliest day consistent with the public service should be
lined for the dismission. If the noble lord consents to pro-
pose thus resolutions, it will be our duty to facilitate him in
bringing then forward. It is of the greatest importance
that the financial statement should be reeds as soon as pos-
sible;
I have fixed It for this day week ; but, if the
Friday after, or that day week, will be convenient for the
noble lord, I have no objection. I trait, however, ha
will allow the home to me the resolution before that. Blr, I
shall look with interest to the discussion. I believe the
course recommended by the noble lord is one which will con-

duos to the public intent. (Hear, hear.) We shall have an
opportunity of giving a formal and mature opinion on many
points with regard to which I cannot but feel there is a
great misconception in the public mind as to the effect of the
proposal made by the present government. It is most de-
sirable that we should have an ample and complete discussion
on all the points involved in the monster of the government
of India from the company to her Majesty, as to the character
of the officer at home to be entrusted with that °Mos, as to
the question whether there should be a council or not, or if
there is • council what are to be its materials, whether
It is to be partly nominated, partly elective, what is the mode
of procedure it should adopt. If we adopt the course sug-
gested by the noble lord, not only will the great question of
the government of India be amply sad completely discussed
In this home, with all the advantage to be derived !rum the
knowledge and experience which many of our members
possess, but it will be discussed in • spirit totally devoid of
say party feeling, and we shall arrive at a conclusion which
will be satisfactory to the country, and which will tend to
promote the safety, honour, and welfare of our sovereign and
her dominions.

Lord J. RUSSELL—I should explain that when I stated
that I should be ready, although it might be considered
great presumption, to propose a resolution on Wm subject,
it was oa the supposition that the government might alto-
gether decline to take that emote ; but now that the right
hon. gentleman has said that he dorm not shrink from it, I
must my that it is a question which belongs properly to the
government. (" Rear, hear," from the opposition.)
Sir C. WOOD said he was very glad to hear the last
few words of his noble friend, having risen at the mine time
is his noble friend to ex prise his utter astonishment that,
however able his noble friend might be, or however compe-
tent he might be, to deal with any question which might be
brought before the house, • question of that kind should be
suffered to fall into the hands of a private member—(loud
opposition cheers)—and not be brought forward on the ugh°. '
nty and the responsibility of the government. (Cheers
He did not concur in the notion which had been prevalent of
late, that the government of the day should be called upon to
undertake legislation upon all kinds of petty and minor rub•
jecta; but everyone must admit that questions of primary
importance ought to be dealt with by the government, and
never had there been • question of greater importance than
that which releted to the future administration of our vast
dominions In India. He wee surprised that upon such a
question the Chancellor of the Stobequer could have even
indicated the peel bat, of the government abaicating its '
functions. (Chase.) He had endeavoured at all times to
avoid the Introduction of party questios in connexion
with Indian topics, and wishing to porsu• the
ism cane on the present ecossica —he would
not yet ems intimate his opinion of the bill
reposed by the government; but he must my—and he did
not believe titers were eve gentlemen in the house who dif-
heed from him on that point—that this was • question which
could only be brought forward by the government, and if
they were willing to abdicate their !motions as • lovers-

mist, the house would not permit them so to do. (Oppri-
lion arra.) He raid not see say strantege in
by way of resetaties. Boa • course would rt. .e
wars of time, rhea the government had changed their
minds end wished hr • decor excuse for withdrawing their
bill. (Cheers.)
Mr. ELLICE rid that he did not know how any-
thing we to be gained by the adoption by the govern-
ment of the advice ot his noble friend. The whole business
of was yet Won the boom and it was not likely
that melds° bra a sconnattes of the whole house before
*6
themd May,s ams* °add
whoaeaafth.tintorumwluotuliodnabehadwasbettl
INC.(
s.theyßle.rived at say dinar
mama o*edoa, zee on which to found
um riposted re, that whatever peopovardes was laid Woes
course
the here on this subject shoold come from the government,
which wee rejmiable to the house and the country.
Mr. WALPOLE amid be bed risen in consequenos of the
oberealier of the eight her gentleman opposite (Sir C.
Wood), secreted by there of the right hon. goademan who
had just set deem. He thought b, those right boo. gr-
ammes bad Warm as and intention of his right
hen. lint e (the L7sslssllsr of the Exchequer's) remarks
istlssaidag his willbgaise le amide to the kindly proposition
of lbs ark Iced goad J. linasell). In pt of fact his
tigbl hen. Mimi inid diellselly he Md not rink from
therspossibilltir ned he beilieve be did act mind to shrink
bratt ths recalligtg;(eppositisa obsen)—whkh properly
beiengedle amen geweesetent,ofet tothe boom
any peineetne widish might be celled hrrith iinenue to so
Mtge eel ee iportant:Fa se that ot the sevenenent
el our olefin In WM. , hoer.)
Mr. *ANGUS al ler Idniielf end he the
llgnitawith whom he we semeebiel, that se moon
be geensminedl_ by the will el periliment is
place Isils nuke the keel obileteedin a/ the mew, they
weld, without say mimeses to petty, give diet beet Mb.
tars hi earrylas out lay morn whir that hoer might
in its Medan-think the beet fitted hr the gommement of the
country. (Chnera.) It had always been the pads and the
boast of the Court. of Merton that, whatever right be the
individual sentiments of its members, as a body they hid ao
politics, as • body they had kept themodves fir tram any
party associations. Hs wee emu that would be the can
now, and he earnestly cargoes& the house to act in • similar
spirit. In such a ore am this, it would be an eternal disgrace
to them to err any them
in eansiderations to influence
with regard to say pponyroposal white might be loads, from
whichever side of the hoer it might
Mr. AYRTON said, without wie=tdo.trost this quo-
Ike be • party spirit, he had plead on the table a store of
his Lem to move at the proper time that the government
bill should be read • mord time that day is months. As
regarded, however, the sorer of withdrawing the bill and
proceeding by way of resolutions, with the view of formiling
upon them soother bill, he moat confess that he could not
see the wisdom or advantage of that course. (Cheers.)
Lord PALYERSTON-1 entirely concur with my hon.
friend the member for Guildford (Mr. Mangles), that the
question of the government of India ought not to be made a
poly queries between the two sides of the house. This is
far too important • matter to be reads the shuttlecock of
party—Guar, beer)—and I, for my part, am perfectly pre-
pared and desirous to discus any arrangement whatever that
may be submitted to the consideration of this house
upon its own merits and with a due regard to the national
importance of the subject. (Hear, hear.) Sir, dents so
deeply impressed with the Importance of the arran
that you are going to establish for the government of India
that, although I think the government should be transferred
from the East India Company to the crown, still I should
prefer thistle
be behotilmeeltiiss they. are to the prang of a bill
which would 'actionable in its provisions, because we',
know the utmostinconvenience which can sire from de-
hiving legistries to another year, while we cannot equally
anticipate the mils which may result from • bad organisation
of the future government of India. (Hear, hoar.) I shall
not now armor the opiates which I entertain with regard
to the bill which the peanut government propose.
But with respect to the preference which it is said
should be given to the mode of proceeding by re-
solution, I would beg to submit to the consideration of
tha hors that that mode of proceeding is inapplicable to the
present state of things, and would be • departure from the
ordinary practice of this house. There are certain matters,
with regard to trade and so on, in reference to which tho
rules of the house require that before • bill is introduced the
house should agree, by resolutions adopted in • committee of
the whole hors, to the haematite] principle on which the
proposed measure should rest. But those rules are limited to
a certain description of Dobler, and I apprehend that the
subject of the government of India, as it is now presented to
us, dies not 611 within the scope of those rules, and that,
consequently, we sou not obliged to pay any regard to the
regulations under which this hors proceeds by rem-
ludo* in pretenses to a bill. If that were the car,
the lest government and the present one would have com-
mitted • violation of the rules and orders of the house; and
as the course adopted by both administrations has been
sanctionedand not found fault with, I may venture to con-
clude that there is no parliamentary nemenity for proceeding
in this case by resolution. Well, then, If the arrangement
were supposed to contain some principle so Important that It
was cleavable that it should be discussed byltealt in a commit-
tee of the whole house, that principle must be the one which is
the foundation of both the bills before us, namely, that of the
transference of the government of India from the East India
Company to the responsible advisers of the crown. But
that principle is, I ap d, admitted not only by the house
but by the country--(hear, hear)—and I apprehend it would
be entirely going back from the program which we have made
to begin now to discuaithe question whether the government
of India sherd or shotild not be transferred to the crown.
(Hear, hear.) Well, then, if the principle is admitted by
both parties in this house and by every person in this country
who bee given any attention to the subject, there would re-
main as meet-matter Sar resolutions nothing but the dee
tails of the bill. Only conceive what en incooveoisat presi-
dent it would be if it were established that when the govern-
ment or • private member wished to intro:roe a bill, instead
of the government or the private member taking the trouble
so to frame the bill that it would contain all the
regulations
which were thought expedient, the house should be ca
upon to par the future clauses of the bill in the
embryo state of resolutions, leaving tt to sessiody
else afterwards to adapt those motorise so that they would
form clause, of the bill. Why it would, in the lint pace, be
• great waste of time. The house would have to go twice
over the same matter, the decision of each ore depending
upon
ussithe accidental preeen
wouldonly it be a loss of time, but it would
not follow necessarily that the details affirmed in the moo-
lotions would afterwards, when they came to be shaped into
clauses in the bill, equally meet with the approbation of the
house. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I really think that, in deference
to the ordinary course of proceeding and rules of the house,
and with a view to the convenience of parliament, as the
house has before it two bills containing all the details which
those who proposed them thought adapted to the ors,
we should proceed
_ to the of the bills
so framed. If we went into a committee of the
whole house we should have to discuss each clause
in the form of • resolution, and it appears to me that
at the same time that we should be establishing an in-
converting precedent, It would be a mere waste of time to
pass rewarder which somebody would afterwards have to
shmin such • way that they could pr.CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Sir, let
ma say, in explanatioa, that the right hem gentleman the
member for Halifax cospripanlad misunderstood the ezpremions
which I used, if he en that them was any wish on my
part to abdicate the unctions of the government either on
this or on any other subject. Bat I having been the
lacTof the government in introducing • bill re- '
ig to the government of India, and the noble
lord (Lord J. Russell) having risen in his
and expressed his intention of proposing resolnUctalwei
thought, and on redaction I cannot bat feel that I was righ
that I should have been guilty of the utmost
had not at once rid what I did. I think that Wink=
any other course I should have acted in a manner which
would have been inconsistent with the forms of the
and indeed with the conduct of a gentleman. At pro=
can only say that I undertake the responsibility which is
thrown on the government. I will place the resolutions on
the table of the house eery enough to give the house ample
time to consider them before it proceeds to the discussion,
and I procose that this day fortnight thou resolutions should
be moved from this table, ...,

he really thought the house and
the wintry should understand what has become of the
gummiest bill. (Opposition chesty.)
Sir B. HALL thought he had a fair right to ask, and the
house hod • right to know, whether the right &a: -
man Woad= to abandon the bill, or meant to proosad to the
second reading, or whether be hawed= to found on the
resolutions moms new memare for the government of
India? (Hear.)
Mr. HORBIdAN said it wee evident that the house wee in
• great difficulty, and he hared this was only the beginning of
difficulties, which would so nunulate as they prooseded with the
consideration of the subject. He agreed with his noble Mend
(Lord Palmerston) that there were inconveniences In post-
poning • !Demure for one year. That inconvenience was,
however, but the inconvenience of a year, whilst the boon-
venienos arising from a fealty or mistaken maim= woe tut
inconvenience which would last through ell time. Feeling,
therefore, that neither bill was satidestory sad having be•
fore him a prospect at which he looked with great dread—
viz., that this measure should be discussed se sporty question
—he thought that the doe of Ma noble hied the
member for the city of I.oadoa, that resolstioes should
be submitted to the home as to whether then
should be • cousell, and as to what should be
Its constitution, was cos which ought to motive the support
of the boom. He thought, indeed, that In a owe of so much
difficulty and of so greet sa =natures, that the house was
under an obligati= to Womble- Mend aard J. Rasmil) for
the euggeeticia which he had made. (Cheers.)
Sir B. HALL hoped that the right hon. gentleman (the
Chancellor of the Rzohaper) would answer bit queeden—
woe it his intention to proowl with or to stand= his bill
upon this subject
The CHANCELLOR at the EXCHEQUER—I ham
' already trespassed on the attention of the host= but with