The Express.
London, England, 1860-06-05 00:00:00

portion of his hon. friend's remarks was that relating to
letter which he read to the house, and which had been ad
dressed to him by members of the working clime or mom
of those committees connected with trades, who constituted
themselves the represeutstives for the time of the working
classes. He understood that letter to assert that the bill
before the house was " • sham, • snare, and • delnekm,^
the result of which he understood to MOM that this bill,
professing to enfranchise the working classes, did not con-
fer upon them any essential political power. Unleiei that
was the meaning of the letter, it seemed to him
totally destitute of meaning or applicability. (Hear.)
The plain and obvious tendency of that letter, which his
hon. friend had paraded as a great reflection of the esoteric
feelings of the working classes, was in fact that it did not go
far enough, and did not include in its provisions a sufficient
number of the working cleanse. There was one expression
which fell from his hon. freed which it was difficult to cone.
prebend—namely, that this bill excluded all the "thought.
far portion of the working classes. He (Sir G. Lewis)
professed himself unable to comprehend how the
author of that letter reconciled it that • 10/. or 61.
franchise included all the thoughtless portion of the
working classes. (Ilmr, bear.) He should now suldrem
himself to the subject of his hon. friend's motion, which
had for its object to postpone the consideration of the bill
till the census of next year should be taken. Now the re.
salts of the census could not be in the hands of parliament
in time to found any legislation upon it in the course of next
session ; therefore the necessary consequence of postponing
the measure till after the remits of the census were known,
would be to arable legislation upon it next session impels.
sible. ("Hear," from the opposition.) That might or
might not be a matter of congratulation to hon. members
opposite—he merely stated it as • fact that those who gave
a vote to postpone the measure till after the results of the
census were known, would postpone it till beyond the period
of next session. (Hear.) With regard to that matter,
there was one obvious remark to be made, that the census
had no bearing whatever upon that part of thin bill, which
to ned almost exclusively upon the question whether the
borough franchise should be limited to 10/. or 6/. (Hear.)
Therefore the ground el postponement which was now
alleged applied exclusively to that portico of the bill which
wee not the 'main subject of dispute in that house. With
regard to the question of the °emus, so far as it related to
the transfer of seats, there was no clause in the hill which
said that all boroughs under 7,000 population should be
disfranchised. That was merely a circumstance stated in
debate by his noble friend in introducing the bill, and all he
asked the house to do was to transfer seats from certain.
boroughs to other boroughs or to counties. (Hear, bear.)
It was stated as a ground for making • selection that those
fell within the line of 7000. But them was no charm in
the number of 7,000--(" hear, hear," iroeically)—more than
there was in the number of 6000 proposed by the
late government. They must take some number upon
which the franchise should be based ; whether it should be
7,000 according to the census of 1851, or 7,500 according to the
erne of 18111, it could not be very material. But what was
material was whether the boroughs selected for disfrea.
Iah•OWILi in part had • population relative to other
If it should turnout that the boroughs selected
steel a relative position to other tow= it would be per.
feet 4 immaterial whether the highest town was 7,100 or
7,200. (Hear, hear.) And unless it should be maintained
by argument that the relative position was likely to be
materially altered by the coming census, the ground for
postponement must fail. He denied that any hon. gentle.
man could show that the smallest reason existed for a poet.
ponement until after the next census should be
taken. (Hour, hear.) The facts before the house
were not likely to be altered by waiting or by
further delay, and he therefore thought it would be
trifling with the measure if they made this • pretext for
postponing it. He believed it could be equally well cond.
dined now as in 1861. Indeed he believed that if the house
had any option, it would be better to adopt the census which
was taken when them was no prospect of *reform bill being
introduced, than a census which might be tampered with
when they knew that it might affect legislation. He had
consulted the R!gistrar.Gestend on the subject, and he laid
•

he should have far more confidence in reference to the fran.
chime in the census of 1861 than upon the one of next year
upon which to found a reform hill, because he thought
efforts might be made to cause returns which miigght net
be accurate, and which might be laid before parliament
in that date. He would not say that frauds would
be perpetrated, but ill such a case at such a
time inaccuracies might arise. (Hear, hear.) Upon the
merits of the matter no case had been shown for the
postponement of the bill until the census of 1861 should
be placed in their hands. lf the House of Lords should be
of opinion that the bill was founded upon just principled.
and if it were desirable to take a limited population as a
pound for partial disfranchisement—u in the bill of last
mission and in this session—no case could be made out to
postponing legislation until next year. (Hear, hear.) The
census of 1851 afforded a most clear and efficient basis fee
the calculation. He would therefore entreat the house, if
they seriously proposed to deal with the bill, and if they
were not merely looking to this motion as a means of post.
ponement, but were ready to discuss this bill upon its
merits, and to entertain the question of disfranchisement
upon the basis of population, to reject this motion withort
waiting for another two years to elapse, and until the
census could be in their bands. Supposing some bun. mem-
bers thought they should discuss the elements of property
and the number of voters as a ground of disfranchisement,
stall all those facts were in their possession, and the quer
tions could be raised in committee. The government had
considered these alternatives before making their propose-
tious to the house, because he was aware it might be said
that if they took the numbers of voters instead of popula-
tion, they would arrive at a different result ; still it would
have been called a vicious principle, and the basis of popu-
lation would have been urged by hon. members. (Hear.)
There could be no expectation that they would arrive at
unanimity upon this subject, and the question could only be
decided by a majority of voters when they got into committee.
No useful object could be obtained by delay. All the
material elements for legislation were in their possession,
and the country would basally believe that the oh use was
seriously bent upon the consideration of reform if they
assented to the motion of the hon. member for Rye.
A protracted debate ensued, in which Sir H. Straoey,
Barrow, Mr. Bovill, and Sir M. Farquhar argued for delay,
while the Home Secretery, Mr. Haines, and Sir F. Gold.
amid contended that no relay was necessary, and that if
the house waited for the proposed census returns, nothing
could be done towards representative reform for two years
or more.

—The tilled* wee protracted until past midnight, and then
adjourned to Thursday.
On the motion for going into committee on the Sheriff's
Court (t3ciotJand) Bill, s discussion nose on the question
whether this bill end some other Scotch bills should be pro.
oeeded with et a day sitting on Tuesday next, the 12th
instant.

On a division, the motion for the day sitting was carried
by a majority of 102 to 89.
The Nuisimees Removal and Diseases Prevention Bill was
postponed till Thursday.

Mr. HENNEEBY moved that tl;selecicommittee as
the Thames Embankment do oonsist of 17 members, sad
that Lord Formoy and Mr. Joseph Locke be added to the
oommittee. . . .

Alter some dismusion, in which Sir J. Paxton Ma
Cowper, Mr. Hen , and Colonel Knox took pea, the
house divided, when appeared.
For the motion lO
Against
The motion wav consequently last.
TITHE COMMUTATION.

Mr. CLIVE obilibed lave to bring in a bill to amend
awl further extend the aeb for the commutation of titles
in England and Wales
The other budnems was disposal of, awl the house ad.
Journad at 30 minaie pest one o'clock.