The Express.
London, England, 1860-08-07 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, AUGUST 7, 1860.

(Hear, hear.) That is the state of British legislation. By
the British law as it stands you refuse ifemrs. Cassell leave
to parches* the paper on which their book is printed at
15a., bed you allow a Germain publisher to print a similar
edition of the Bible and send it here at Ice. in order to
drive 11 u. Cassell out of the market. I call epos the
committee to dismiss from their minas any visionary and
unpractioable schemes for regulating our legista-
tion by the proceedings of other countries, and
to stand fast by the sound principle approveduittabs.•
experience of 20 years, of minding our own b
amending our own laws, and setting an example of equity,
fairness, and equality, so far as depends upon ourselves.
(Hear, hear.) There are other cases where the inequality,
nukes removed, is the direct result of our own proceedings.
It is only this year that you have said to the manufac-
turers of paper hangings and to the card-board maker that
the maker of French hangings shall come in at 14a, and
the cardboard maker at lac per owt. But what are hang-
ings and cardboard ? They are articles of which paper is
the raw material. Are you then positively to say to these
men, " By the British law we will compel you to run in a
fair field and with no favour against the foreign producer ;
but with respect to the raw material we will hamper your
acoees to it by artificial restrictions, and will forbid you to
purchase it unless you pay a tax levied for the benefit of
the clients of the hoe. member for Hertfordshire." In my
opinion those who are prepared to adopt that course must
have framed their notions on very different grounds from
those which British justice would mark out. it is precisely
the same in principle as the case of the miller would have
been if we had said, " We will admit foreign flour duty
free, but we will maintain the duty upon corn." (Hear,
hear.) These are really my last words upon the subject,
and I must say that so far as regards the first resolution
which is now before us, I cannot for a moment
doubt the course which the dictates of our own
self-aspect and our sense of honour and dig-
nity as a house of legislature will lead us to
adopt, and the conclusion towards which policy, prudence,
and justice must direct us. It has been said by obeerrets
of human nature, that however insignificant a thing may be,
there is always something touching in doing it slag time.
It makes an appeal to the feelings, however small the
thing may be, if we know we shall never have to do it
agate. how, I believe that this is the last time we shall be
called upon !?Settle the old question of protection, _The
meet microscopic eye may now address Beall to the British
tariff, and will find that it has attained a normal date,
so far as the establishment of equality between
the domestic and the foreign producer is con-
cerned. Even into the paper trade itself the prin-
ciple
has found its way. Certain classes of paper
goods are irretrievably exposed to foreign competition.
The last stage of this long journey, and that too a very
abort stage, is all that remains to be accomplished, and the
question is whether you will accomplish it now, or will stop
short. It has been said that there lea speciality in the Quo
of the paper makers. I confess that I know of but one
speciality in the case, and that u the extraordinary advan-
tage which the arguments in its favour have derived from
being supported with the greatest power, vigour, ingenuity
and assiduity in quarters of the greatest influence. It has
but one speciality' and that is its couuexion with what I
may call the royal family of the daily press. (Laughter.)
But that is not a speciality of which the House of Commons
can take notice, and I should be much indeed surprised
and much disappointed if there should be doubt and hesita-
tion under the circumstances as to the course we are to

Cne. The vote of this committee to-night, I feel satin-
dri,will once more, and now once for all, affirm and give its
sanction to principles which for so many yeah have contri-
buted to develop the resources and confirm the prosperity
of this country, and which, fertile as they have been in
benefits to every class of the community, have upon the
whole done the most for those for whom it was feared they
would do the worst, namely, the producers themselves of
what were once protected commodities. (Loud chews.)

Mr. PULLER, in rising to move the amendment of which
he bad given notice, said he thought the course proposed
to be pursued by her Majesty's government would
only involve the house in a mass of inconsistency.
The community at large might justly be called upon '
to bear the temporary inconvenience of a penny income tax
for the sake of obtaining great advantages to our manufacs
taring interests and extended markets for our productions ;
but the case of the paper maker, was a thousand times
stronger than the case of the manufacturers of hard-
ware, calicoes, or pottery. The paper makers did not ask
the house for the extension of their business. (Hear, hear.)
All they asked was that they might be allowed to keep
what they had got—{hear, hear)—and yet, unless it
turned out that the right hon. gentleman know
more about the business of paper-making then the
manufacturers themselves, they must all go to the wall.
Was the doctrine set forth by the right hon. gentleman to
he kept exclusively for the benefit of the paper maker, or
was it only to be the small end of the wedge which when
driven home was to apply to cotton or cloth and all other
branches of manufacture' Might not the United Stater
learn a lesson from the proceedings of government on this
question? They knew that in that country a great struggle
was going on teethe supreme power ; the repuhlicans might
gain the powers which had been so long held hy the
southerners, and was it quite certain that they would not
take • hint from the Chancellor of the Exchequer and
levy • small expert duty ou cotton? (Hear, hear.) He
should like to know bow his right hon. friend would
relish this application of his doctrine—admit American
calico, and calmly watch the factories of Lancashire cloying
one after the other. The right hon. gentleman had spoken
of poor rates as • peculiar burden upon land. He (Mr.
Puller) had always thought that they al equally upon
houses, and that in the ease of the l it pressed mom on
the landlord than the farmer, seeing that the Latter always
demanded an abatement of rent proportionate to the amount
of rates. Then,
_with respect to sugar, our planters had
been compensated with twenty millions sterling when
slavery was abolished. Did his right honourable friend
propose te deal with similar liberality wit the paper
makers? (Oh, oh.) What they asked was,h that this
limited protection should not be diminished air long as there
were • prohibitory duty against the import of the raw
material. With respect to the treaty itself, he should pro-
ceed to inquire what had been the intentions of the two
governments. The English government, he believed, in-
tended two things—first to secure the revenue from any
loss beyond that which was set down, and secondly to se-
cure the manufacturers of this country from any loss from
being obliged to enter into competition with foreign makers.
On the side of the French government he did not find
traces of any desire to aware the abolition of duty on all
exciaeable articles, but he did find a clause to secure
abolition in the case of the articles which were
distinctly mentioned. He did not find from the
correspeuilenos that thry demanded any sweeping
abolition, but merely on certain articles which were speci-
fied in the treaty. In the 7th article he found that " Her
Britannic Majesty promised to recommend to parliament
to admit into the United Kingdom the merchandise of
France at rates equivalent to the excise charged on articles
the produce of this country." The question then was, what
did merchandise mean? It would not do to say all mer-
chandise, .ta then tobacco, beer, tea, Re,, would be included.
The right hon. gentleman contended that it meant all ex-
cianible merchandise ; but if it ineint that, why did it not
my so' The fact was, that the object of the 7th artcle
was not to prescribe what articles might be introduced, but
to state the duties on such as should be introduced.
He submitted that it was impossible the French negotiators
could hay,' meant the construction which was contended for
by the right hon. geutlemar.. He believed that " merchan-
dise" did not menu all merchandise, and that the intention
of the seventh article was merely to fix the rates of duty on
suck articles se should be admitted. He hail now only to
thank the house for the attention with which he had been
listened to, and he wished merely to say in conclusion
that if government, u. twit the arguments
which had been used against them, should adhere to
the construction which hail been put on the treaty by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, still he thought that the spirit
of the treaty was to give our manufacturer* protection
against unfair competition, and that the ooncludieg line of
the 7th article applied in spirit to any fiscal mgulatiou
which exposed the British manufacturer to such conipeti.
tion. He could not suppose that the Emperor of the
French would take advantage of his own wrong, hut that
he would willingly consent to whatever modification might
lie necessary iu details. He was sure that even if the law
otfieera of the crown adhered to the right Lou. gentleta.an'i
coustniction of the treaty, still that there were ample
grounds for bringing the matter under the notice of the
French government, so that whatever was contrary
to the spirit of the treaty might be numb the subject of
future negotiation. That leas the reason why he submitted
his motion :—" That, without desiring to prejudice the
question of a reduoilin at a future period of the cust ens
duty on French Leeks awl paper, this committee does not
thick fit at present ti assent to such reduction. That,
without desiring to prejudice the question of a reduction
at a future period of the cuatmos duty on books and piper,
this committee dies not think fit at prebend to assent to
such reduction."

Hr. CHILDERS odserrell that it lout been alleged, :is an
aqmment against the isiolutiou, that the principal paper-
making countries imposed a prohibition or a prohibitory
duty upon the export of rags ; whereas it was a matter of
fact that several lar,ge paper.producing countries, including
the United Staten, levied uo duty upon the export of that
material. He stated a variety of statistical facts coune,..sl
with the paper trade at variance with the conclusions of Mr.
Puller, and showing, in his opinion, that, iiehmentlently of
tbarl:cestion of honour, the Louse, on the question of facts,
be perfectly safe in supporting the resolution.
Mr. F. CRIMILET said that be had lately visited
Paris as the representative of his own business be-
ton the Frooch commissioners, and he felt bound
to say lie thought Ozer.• was every disposition on the
part of the French to carry out every article of the treaty to
the letter, and even more. They bad sacrificed 3,1100,000 f.
of revenue by taking off the duties upon the raw material,
and groat fears hal at first been expressed in France,
which were now, however, giving way. He he.ped the
committee would not stultify itself upon this question by
adopting the lt mendnwnt. of the bin. member for Herts.
Mr. 31AGU1ith: said the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would only struntlen the hands of the protectionists
of France if he card ,t his measure, and hi equal
• proisirtioa he would weaken free trail.) in this cormtry.
He was aminst monopoly and protection, hut it was French
monopoly awl protection he' was opposing on this occasion.
(Hear, hear.) Let them pine the paper manufacturers of
this country in a iosition in which they could compete with
their foreign rivals, owl he would not then be afraid to
trust them in the field of competition with any foreign rivals
whatsoever. (Hear. bear.)
Mr. MARSH considered gist the house would stultify
itself if it assented to the motion of the hon. member tut

! Reetterehlre. The simple question for the house to de-
cide was whether they would apply the principle of free
trade te articles in respect to which they had no satural
advantage as well as to those in which they had. He held
that in al these cases the true ,nrinciple to follow was the
interest of the mummer. (Hear.
air H. CAIRNS said the Chanoellor of the Exchequer
had aisigned two Rounds for the' resolution—that the
house was bound to it by the treaty and by the principles of
free feeds If they were committed by the treaty, what
wee the use, he asked, of any other .eseeon ; and if not,
why could not the discussion slumber on till next ses-
sion The object of the Chancellor of the Exche-
goer, however, was trazumasent. If' any hesitated
as to the one, they might be caught by therather. What
was tie case of the paper-makers? They mist- their trade
emplqyed a large capital, and 40,000 or 50,00Mireson. ; that
there was no material from which practi they could
produce paper in any quantity but rags ; that sorely of
rags this country was limited, and they were oblripd to
look to foreign countries, where the export of rage was
either prohibited, or subject to a duty of W. a ton, which
was equivalent to • tax of lid. per lb. on the pow ; and-
that a large quantity of foreign paper was even now MOP
aumed in this country, and if the customs' duty is fore*.
paper was altered they would be no longer able to competes
with foreigners. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had
made no other reply to these allegations than an appeal to •
the principles of free-trade, and to facts resting upon
anonymous authorities. What he (Sir H. Cairns) asked,
then, was an inquiry into the facts, and if they should turn
out to be as stated, the paper-makers must submit. On the
Bth of March came on the discussion on the motion of the
noble lord the member for Middlesex approving
of the treaty, and he (Sir H. Cairns) said, " We
ere told now that the prohibition of rags is
to be removed, but why was not that inserted in the
treaty?" and the President of the Bonrd of Trade said, " I
was extremely glad to hear the noble lord announce to the
house that the French government intends to remove the
prohibitions now existing on the exportation of rags from
Franz." It wan not merely that they intended to submit
it to the Legislative Council, bat that they intended to
remove the prohibition. Well, then, he said the house acted
upon that assurance. They talked about good faith—
(opposition cheep)—about addressing an assembly of gen-
tlemen pledged by their word. Was there any difference
between this statement and a positive term inserted in the
treaty that the French government would remove the
prohibition? He said that in honour and in truth
between one government and another therewas nodifferenoe;
the question was just the same as if in the treaty there
had been a positive engagement to remove the prohibition.
Suppose they were not called upon to form an opinion of
what the construction was, what was the course the house
should now take? They should wait for the fulfilment of
the promise. Was there any objection to their doing so ?
Would their doing so imperil or defeat this treaty ? Cer-
tainly not. In the first place, it would not do so if he were
right in the construction which he gave to the treaty ; and,
in the second place, which was more important, they bad
the positive assurance that there was nu desire on the part of
the French government to precipitate or hasten the action of
the House of Commons in this matter. The views of the
French government were the views of the French paper
makers, and what were the views of the French paper
makers? He held in his hand a pamphlet stating the case
of the French paper makers, and they said they did not care
a straw about the reduction of the English duty on their
paper, but what they wanted was to maintain the
prohibition on the export of rags. Therefore he
was quite prepared to hear the Chancellor of the
Exchequer's announcement to-night, that the French
government had made a communication to our government
to the effect that so far as they were concerned they did
not wish for this matter. If that were so, they had no
longer any question of peril or danger to the treaty—they
had no longer any question of being supposed by the
French government to act in a manner in which
the House of Commons ought not to act.
But the question did not rest there, because
it was all important that this matter should be kept open
for the purpose of ascertaining what the French government
would do. They were told that the French Emperor was a
free-trader, but that he had to deal with those who had not
adopted that principle, and that it was of great importance
to him to be able to go to the legislative body and to point
to this treaty, and show the advantages they would derive
from it. But the Corps Legialetif was now 'broken up, and
the French Emperor should he enabled to go to that body
next session and say, " Them are some parts of tho
treaty which have not been finally adjusted with
the English government, hut if you will consent
to remove the prohibition on the export of French
rags we can settle the matter." He umintoined that this
was a question in whirls there was no room for the applica-
tion of the principles of protection or free trade, and that
there ought to be an inquiry into the effect of the proposed
resolution on the paper makers. He said, moreover, that
the construction of the treaty went much beyond the cus-
toms duty on paper, and he said further and still more
strongly that the House of Commons had been induced to
accede to the treaty upon an assurance which hail not yet
been fulfilled, which lie was far from arising might not yet
be fulfilled, but he said it behovol them as wise sod pru-
dent men to wait, and see whether it would be fulfilled or not.
The government had had an alternative offered to them by
a supporter of their own, which was moderate in its terms,
and which left the subject entirely free and unprejudiced
fur future discussion. He would not pawn to consider what
were the motives that induced the government to oppose the
amendment, but he thought the house had a duty to per-
form, and he was conviuced that if they failed to perform it
their failure would rise up hereafter to their discredit and
regret. They were appealed to by un important trade in the
country, not for favour or indulgence, but for simple
justice. He denied that the time for consideration had
passed. On the contrary, they were free as air to consider
the question upon the merits and justice of the case, and
he trusted they would adopt the moderate and wise
come proposed by the honourable member for
Herta, and not, without reason, inquiry, or consideration,
become the agents of a great, irretrievable, and unnecessary
wn.ug to a large branch of the manufactures of the country,
epos which much skill and enterprise were expended and
millions of money had been embarked (Loud cheers.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said ho entirely roan.
nised the justice of the applause which had been so liberally
bestowed upon the honourable member for Belfast. A
more conspicuous display of forensic ability he hail
never seen, but he thought that that abuudant amt.
dance which ought to distinguish an advocate ought to be
laid aside when addressing an assembly such as the House of
' Coin:amis. (Great laughter.) It would be equally well if
' his hon. and learned friend would strive to be accurate in
his assertions. Ho could not bat express some surprise at
the intronnetory sentence of his hoe. and learned friend's
speech. So intense was he in his hostility towards the
thaucellor of the Exchequer that he made it a complaint
that the arguments of the right hon. gentleman were
ranged under two heads, one of justice and the other of ex-
pediency. Now if there were any heads of argument fit to
be presented to men of honour, they must undoubtedly be
ranged either under the head of justice or of ex-
pediency, and if the oration of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer were distinguished by one merit higher than
another it was by the circumstance that the grounds upset
which he solicited the votes of the house that night
were based upon the principles of justice and expediency.
(Hear, hear.) He (the Attorney-General) did not intend,
however, to enter into the gledietorial arena with his hon.
rind learned friend. (Laughter.) lie simply rose to pis`
form a duty which he conceived to be a very serious one,
namely, that of stating to the house what in his opinion was
the true interpretation to bo placed upon the treaty. The
caw of the paper duty was governed by the 7th, which
provided for the admission into the United Kingdoms of
mereleuidise imaorted from France at a rate .4 duty
equal to the excise duty which is or shall be imposed upon
articles of the same description in the United Kingdom."
Besides the honourable obligation contracted under the
treaty and considerations of expediency, the house was
bound, he thought, in justice to consumers and other
manufacturers, to put an end to a particular monopoly by
adoptins the resolution.
NORRie and Mr. HLIMM.XT (bath on the opposition
Leaches) rose together, but the former hon. member pro-
ceeded to state some reasons why he should not on this
uccasiun give his vats in favour of the proposition of the
government. If he were fully satisfied that in obligation
rested en the house to redeem the national tumour by carry-
ing out the treaty as proposed, he would be the hit persou
to shrink from such a cosmic, however disastrous the
coneequeticea might be ; but be was informed, and believed,
that paper was tint included in that treaty. Very little
notice tad been taken of the 21st clause, in which there
was a clear stipulation that if any party ahottid see moron
why:. particular article should be excepted, they should he
permitted to make such eteeption. Now, he contended
that tho raw material of paper was ex much excepted as any
other ruw material, that this stipulation afforded a rea-
sonable male of escape, and that Mime who did not take
advantage of it would desert the principle of "take care of
Yourself." (A Innis.)
Mr. HENLEY under all the circumstances thought the
antis of the weudrr for Ilerfordehire a reasonable one,
and should therefore give it his suptasrt.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the construction pet by Sir H.
Cairns upon the treaty wan subtle, refined, and scholastic,
but it was not its plain meaning. The common-sense
meaning of the 7th article -which might, perhaps, have been
better wonted—was that when articles like these, subject
to excise duty here, were imported from France, they shisehl
pay a customs' duty equal to the excise duty. The
argument apiinat the resolution founded upon pelley wad
the same as he hail often beset—that free-trails was en mix.
cellent thing, bat a particular article was always is be ex-
cepted from operutieu. At the end of a "ones of sue-
cemmful legislation for forty years upon free-trade prminplee
the Louie, he hoped, would not be frightened by the hob-
goblins cenjured up M Mr. Paler. Au honourable gentle-
man—Mr. Chillers—who .puke (continuo' the noble lord)
early is the debate, gave xis important information which
ought, I think, to influence the result of this douse.
With regard to cotbeis, woollens, null silks you may be
druid that these foreign manufectores may successfully
compete with vie in yourowu tnerkets. But the sure teat
is to into a third market, end see what in the effect of
trade there ; to Canada, At:steals, MA media. There the
French have hail all the advantages of this protective sys-
tem. We are told that by virtue of this adminilde system
—by this plan of nursing and fostering manufacturer by
artificial heat and nourialiment, French matinfactures must
he intneluced into the third market and defeat our own.
But the fact is, that out of 78,1k4f. worth of
_l7.illiper.
50,01.4/. is manufactured in this semidry, some Io,utMe
tlia United:Matte, land only 1,1300/. cont. from Francis. And les
of 300,0001, of paper imported into India, Z 17,011101. is id

British manufacture. Such is the effect of competitiou
upon • system which has been fostered and dandled by
wotertiou. No doubt it will he the same in England.
There will probably be improvements introduced
into this manufacture, and men will be led into more
useful and less wasteful application of their capital
If those paper manufacturers are not unlike the rest of the
country—ter eve know the energy and industry which have
enabled our manufacturers, our farmers, and oar sailors to
compete with their rivals all over the weal, whatever ad-
vantages they might have—l don't think they will suffer
by them changes. I ask this henna therefore, on the
ground et the ebligation of treaties, and on the plain and
nmple meaning of ,the article which I hare road, en the
ground, ten, of wisdom and policy, net to gins the diwee-
dfaable spectacleto the world of endeavouring to ender •
ober obligation. tHear, hear.) Let es rather rely upon
that principle wine has been tried for a number of wears,
makes proved to In so beneficial to the comments of this
country, Wilk let us net iambi resort to prohibitions and pro.
teaks's" as tier sienna of securing our prosperity. (Cheers.)
DISRAELI didnot think it necessary, to entw into
the question of free trade and unrestricted competitio ,n
and /to would only ague that three principles shoald be
applied with predence and consideration, and without
reference. to the incident.. which affected • commodity
er a teed.. rye trade which was in question now
was avowedly kedependent of and separate from the
sommercial treaty_ It was clearly the opinion of
parliament that the repeal of the excise duty on paper els
inexpedient at this' particular time ; bat the manner in
which the government dealt with that !motion showed that
they intended to deal with it irrespective of the
treaty ; besides which this particular nude had been
recently examined and adapted as far as it could
be to the principles of free trade, and that by Mr.
Gladstone himself. The right bon. gentleman continued—
The motion of the bon. member fer Martine:shire pespuses
merely that the government should not all upon this house
to consider at once • question which may be pestpossevi by
the French goverment. (Hear.) It appeal" • to me that
not only is the motion of the hon. member fur Hertford-
shire one which is fair and reasonable, but that it none
which indicates a course which it would be, I believe, wise
on the part of the government to follow. AA neither
the speech of the noble lord the Secretary ter
Foreign Affairs nor that of the Chanceller of the
Exchequer referred to the amendment of tlie member
for Hertfordshire. They have totally avoided the real
merits of the case, which may recommend themselves to all
men of temperate opinion.. let the government recollect
fora moment the great disappointment of the country at
the manner in which this treaty has been nertiated.
(Hear, hear.) I have no doubt the difficulties of the nego-
tiators are very considerable ; but at the same tune expec-
tations were held out to this country as to the made and
time at which the treaty would be negotieted, and as to the
advantages which this country was to derive from it, which
have certainly not been fulfilled, and which is a source
of great disappointment, and the reasons never have
been explained to the people of this country why the en-
gagemente promised were not fulfilled. It appears to me,
then, under these circumstances, that the government an
be acutely surprised if a particular trade should hesitate
before they conclude an arrangement which they think will
be highly injurious to their industry and without receiving
any of three advantages on the part of France which were
held out to them by the government of this country.
Everybody recollects that when this treaty came before
the house various commoditiess were enumerated which caused
alarm, and among which paper was one, and everyone
will recollect the interest and satisfaction clinked by the an-
nouncement twice made by the government, that the French
government had resolved to reduce the duty upon the raw
material for manufactures. (Hear, hear.) Under the.e
circumstanced it is not unreasonable to call upon the go-
vemment to obtain a boon necessary to the profitable
exercise of the paper trade, and which is a sound
principle of commerce, and which the government more
than once announced their intention to accomplieh. (Hear.)
tinder these circumstances I trust that the prime minister
will, instead of taking an exaggerated view of this matter,
such as I think ham been taken by the Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs, feel that it is a question in which the
government may fairly interfere, and without violating the
engegements of the country under treaties of which we have
heard so much, that he will prevent the necessity of a
division on this subject by accepting in the spirit the amend-
ment of the hon. member for Hertfordshire. The noble
lord may in the interval that will elapse between this and
next meeting of parliament use that influence which I have
no doubt he possesses with the French government, in
order to obtain the result which is sought by the amend-
ment. I myself would much prefer this than that
we should be dividing on the 6th .4 August—have been
dividing the house on an object which of itself is not of first-
cute importance. It is not like the constitution of the
country. It is the legitimate interest of a thriving trade
which is still under the disadvantage of an excise duty. It
is all very well to say yon will get over that by a farthing
or two, more or less. I defy anyone to tell the disadvantage
of an excise duty on a trade. No doubt when you compen-
sate a trade for an excise you should make not only an
adequate but a liberal allowance. Considering that this
subject has been brought before the house on what I
believe to be an erroneous construction of the treaty—
considering that the treaty is an uncompleted document
and an unfulfilled engagement-and considering that
the French government has in consequence of this great
difficulty, in a spirit of great conciliation, expressed its wil-
linieneee not to press us to conic into this engagement, I think
it would be the wisest and the most conciliatory course to the
trade wham interests are at stake, and to which I myself
would apply the commercial principle which we lute°
adopted ; I think that considering the French govern-
ment have not been able to fulfil their engagements
although they are desirous of fulfilling them, that inure than
once they have expressed their desire that our fulfilment
should be deferred till we can make more equal
terms, and mutually fulfil our engagements—l say that con-
sidering all these circumstances I wish that the noble lord
would prevent at this moment an unnecessary divi-
sion by accepting iu spirit the policy recommended I
by the hon. member for Hertfordshire, and would allow
this question to be so dealt with that the noble lord should
use his influence with the French government, so that they
should allow the raw material to be exported, and that we
may have the satisfaction of feeling that when the paper
trade is called upon to enter into competition, it will enter
into it with all those advantages to which it is entitled.
Bet if the noble lord will not do that, the only course I an
take is to support the temperate and well-cousidered amend-
ment which has been proposed by the hon. member for
Hertfunlahire. (Cries of " Divide."
Lord PALMERSTON—I entirely agree in the opinion
expressed by the right hon. gentleman that a d:vieion on
this question is not necessary, and I think it would be
well ',voided by those who sit on the other side of
the house. (Laughter.) The right honourable gentleman
has urged me not to adopt unnecessary and exaggerated
opinions. Now, undoubtedly, if I have the disposition to
adopt such opiuions, I think that the course followed on
the other side has been such as to warn me to avoid the
example set by them; for I think that rot only have their
opinions been stated with h unnecessary enema-, and exaggerated
extremely, hut, as I will beg leave to show, their opinions
are inconsistent with former opinions expressed by them
very gentlemen. The question before the house is whether
we will fulfil the conditions of • treaty concluded with a
foreign power, and whether we will, with regard to
this manufacture, apple the principle of free trade
which luxe been adopted by all sides of the house. (Hear.)
Now, I really am surprised, I will not my at learned gen-
tlemen, becatim they are in the habit of wog refined ar-
garments, sail what is called splitting hates and finding diffi-
culties where unlearned men find none--I am not surprised
that I.trneil gentlemen should be inclined to argue away
the 7th article of the treaty, but that unlearned men who
look at the matter with plain common sense, look at winds
scantling to their ordinary meaning, and at euangements
assorting to the spirit as well as the letter—l am
surprised that gentlemen not belungiag to the
learued profession should entertain auv doubt as to
the obvious intention of the 7th article of the treaty.
Nothing eau he 'dallier. It is stated in the article thet the
duty on merchandise coining from France shell not exceed
the excise duty levied ou the same erthdes produced in this
country. What tun be clearer and more precise than that
engagement'. It is add that paler was not enleptreel to
be included orieinally among the provisions e the treity ;
but my right hon. friend has explained how it happen el
that at that time it. was anticipated that the excise
duty would be repealed, and that the article would
net apply to leper. But when the course of
events prevented the duty from being repealed the
7th article of the treaty came into operntiou. It is ulleged '
that the French goveruineut—net by treaty, but by tlipite '
matte communications--offered to do its utmost to cla.nge
the law in France with regard to the exportation of rigs, and
it in said that bee-nese the French government have fiche! in
their entleavourn to procure that change, the English ;,-ov..re.-
merit ought else to fail to carry into effect a solemn
engagement entered into between the two coun-
tries, and ratified by the wrrereign of each.
No doubt the French governmeut in the roust
liandseme manner ousted that if it we; iac..cveni,rt
for tier Majesty's government to cam wit the etipulaticu
they would waive its execution for the present, but is meat
hatitheinte sad liberal conduct to he met by conduct dia-
metrically opponite ? I cannot believe that a British House
of Commons can ever consent to take ;melt a course. The
right hon. gentleman who had just ailibeeeel the Meuse bed
stated that conventions are to bo ei,,ened regulating the
duties ou iron and other things mei he says we can, under
three circumstance, readily postpone the paper
duty. But the right houtmnible Feat:el-mat is ora-
tion:kg things totally different in their natur,•,
because that which is the subject matter of the conventi-
is the conversion of duties nil ,sporran into spiaitic
and therefore that fact has no bearing whatever upon the
question under consideration. What has the how, already
done in reference to the treety ? It has untulimoudy voted
the address approving of the treaty mei engaging to item, et
the crown in the performanee of its stipulations ; hut vet
we are now called upen to evade indefinitely tire execution
of the engagemente into which we have entered. It is earl
to be 11 very trifling matter, but I should
be glad to learn if that wan the light in which it was repre-
sented to the various gentlemen who have been called up
from different parts of the country, end even from fonsiga
lands, to take part in this nuneesesary (Laughter
and cheers.) I will undertake that to them the matter was
represented in a very different light. I treat that the hose.
will Ion: at the question in a plain, straightforward Emeinh
there is
sarldealiwtilltheti wilketlhee3oe.ritif.l.ltt
opportunity of fulfilling it. With retort' to the
bearing upon this particular trade 1 mast lw allawed to my

that I really thought we was all free-trader. I remember
a time, not rem far diligent, when hon. gentlemen on the
other side of the house raised the standard of protective,
and that was the rallying cry of the party. But. if I mu.
take not, in Isi Lord Derby stated, when he dieedved
parliament, that he referred the question of free trale yr
protection to the decision of the country. When the
general election was over, Lord Derby and his government
stated that they felt the country bad decided in favour
of free trade, and that henceforw.trd they adopttd
frankly and tidy the principle of free trade. (Hear.)
But now this fremtrachng parliament is called upon to
break a treaty for the sake of retaining a little fragment of
protection in one particular trade. My hon. friend the
member fur Pontefract made an important statement to-
night as to the way in which the paper trade of this
country beats the paper manufacture of France from third
markets, in which no protection °perste*, and in which they
start on fair and equal tern.. By their superior
skill and the better article they manufacture, they gain the
predunduance in third srearkets to the exclusion of the
inanufardme of Prance. That shows, eves on the narrow
ground that protection way be wasted to falter a 1112,111.
facture which cannot stand en its owe legs, that paper ipso
not want that pr. tection. Even if you admitted the rule
that it was sound policy to mike the cousonting
public buy a dearer or a less good ratiele merely
that the peronu who manufacture that artiele
should have a profit which they would nos otherwise
gain—seen if that false and exploded priaciple were • good
one, it would list apply, because it is demonstrated that the
paper numnfactorers of England are capable of meeting aU
the ditheultiee of getting raw material and competing sac-
cessfuLly and sultantagesusly with the foreign manufac-
turers. Therefor; whether we take it on the principle of
the treaty or of fro, tradeand protection, I have not loan' a
sioglcaugnment which has any weigh!' it. I ran pemaselcd
the House of Commons will feel that it is Nimrod to main-
tain the honour of the country by fulfilling our obligations,
of. the nature and exttint of which no reasonable man can
doubt, and slate that they are too far advanced ii. the prin-
ciples of tree trade to retrace their step now. To make
this an exceptio• to that general rule, the implication of
which has tended so gristly to improve the industry and
income the prosperity of the country, would be a derelic-
tion of the dap of the House of Commons, and I marmot
believe that by all the legation* argumentowhieb have been
used the house will be persuaded to do so. (Cheers.l

The-house th® divided :.
For the resolution 266
For the amendment '2.33—Xt
The announcement of tea numbers was received with
loud and prolonged encoring.
The resolution was then agmed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then movol,
" That is lien of the duties of customs now charged
the articles undermentioned, ether duties of customs shall,
on and alter the 16th day el. August, 1860, he charged
thereon on importation from ceuutries other than Frame
and Alfieri. He presumed that as between the first and
this resolution the difference was so simple wad so well
understood, and the committee bad so amply dissussed the
subject of free trade and protection, sad the quell 'non of the
treaty, that the committee would go forward andtake this
question at once.
Mr. PULLER did not think it necessary to make another
speech to-night, but there was en important distinction be-
tween the two resolutions, and all the arguments upon the
faith of the treaty bad no application whatever to this rem.
lanai ea regarded the interests of that class of manufacturers
whose case he had supported ; it was of vital impot lance to
them that this resolution should not be agreed to He
therefore begged to move an amendment, ' that, without
desiring to prejudice the question of a reduction at a future
period of the customs duty on books and paper, this com-
mittee does not think fit at present to anent to such
reduction." _ .

Mr. DISRAELI could not support the amendment:- The
question at issue in the first resolution was of great im-
portance, and the house had well and fully discussed it.
This resolution would if carried involve this country
in great trouble with those countries ander the name of
favoured nations. The hon. gentleman must not, therefore,
count on his support if he went to a division.
Mr. NEWLY.GATE supported the amendment. He
should not be doing his duty to his constituents if he did
not vote for it.

A division was called for, but the revolution being put the
anieudrneut vras withdrawn, and it was agreed to without a

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER next moved
a resolution increasing the rate of duty chargeable on wine,
from the Ist January, 1861, so as to adjust the duties on
the stronger kinds of wine to meet the late increase un the
duties on spirits.
After a few words from Mr. ATtrrotr, the resolution was
agreed to, and the house resumed.
The Refreshment-houses and Wine Licenses (Ireland)
Bill we.; read a third tune and Fused.
The second reading of the Plea on Indictments Bill was
moved be Mr. DENNAY, and agreed to.
The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the
house adjourned at half-past two o'clock.

MARKETS.
LONDON' WEEKLY DOCK RETURNS.-ACJUST •.

ilmportd. Deliverd. Pr. Stoel

Bu9LL—Westlndis easki 8,571 ' 3.577 j 211.932 1 30.057
lauritius. nags 0,503 .155,957 ' 82,555
llengal and Ifadraa Lags 480 5,574 , b. 3,212 '127,611
Penang —
Foreign vim, 14,173 19,883 1371,010 / 2,2-18
COrraz—W.l cubit 151 18 1 7te. i 4.27

~..Nlochz ~-
pkvi - 133 3,23.1 i 4,054
Ceylon naga; 555 3,663 21,.) : , 43,573
241 . cyloi 10,30
C.wo4—W.l bags' 333
lacel 53. ' 5,4)1 ! 4,01.1 i
p
RUX—W.L = 1,7-15 1,414 ! 34,537 . 30,964

TALLOW.—Tho tallow market was steady last week,
and prices were well supported until Saturday, when seve-
ral parcels of tallow were given off from veseets just arrived
to sewed lianas. and being offered freely for sale, ex-ship
prices wereeffected to the extent of Gd. per cwt., both on
spot and for future periods of delivery. To-day the
niArket remains quiet at the decline of Satunlay ; prices
come, however, rather higher from St. Petersburg, being on
spot, 50 re., and August 49. rs. ; and the exchange too is
higher, 351. The demand from the trole continues good,
owl town tallow is still very deficient in quantity.
Our closing prices are :—Spot., New Y. C., 525. 3d. to
55. la ; old, 52.5. 3d. ; September, 52.. • October to
Dooember, 55. ; and for separate mouths, 7.5. fit. ;
January to March, 55. 9d. ; South Amer :ran, 55. itd.
to 535. Ist pipes ; file. 61. to 525. yei.N.w. No
Odessa offering ; town, 525. Gd. not cash. Cocoa nut oil ;
Cochin, 445. to 45. ; Ceylon, 475. ; Sydney, 455. to
41is. lid., lees 2l per cent. ; palm oil, 454. ; rough fat,
9.kci.—(From the circular of Messrs. Smith and Charles,
&tea Monday evening.)

COTTON.—LIVERPOOL, AnGUAT —Tan sale., of e%3tton
to.tluy are ediurtted at 12,000 bales. A good demand 1$ itli.
out any improvenleut in prices.

CATTLE.—Ln-EnrooL, Annusr e. —The Ern ly of beef
was much Larger than on last Molelay. T:.e arm:old
very good, but at lower prices. Sheep and lambs rather
slow sale, at rather less money.

00A IA —Lonnon, Au Gum' 6. —llostings
Howard's West Hartley, in, Lan,hrre, West
Hartley, 15e. lhl. ; Tantield Moor ]lutes, ; Walker
Primrose, 13sAid. ; West Hartley, ; Wvlam,
Walla End Aeornelose,l7l. fid.; Walls End 17s. id.;
Walls End Sheriff Hill, 14n. ; Walls End Wit ruelitie.
17, 6.1.; Earn Main, 17s. fal. ; Walls End Sr. d.lella Het.
ton, !Ss. 3d.: Walls End Fmnisvidinati2, 17, ed. ; Walls
End Haswell, 19.. ; Walls End Het on, ; Walls
End South Helton, 19s. 6d. ; Walls End Steam-Vs,
His. 6d.; Walls End Cadsop, Das. ; WoEs End Hwg6
Hall, 17a. ti,l ; \Valls End North ros ikl.;
Wall/. Bud South Hartlepool, lss. ; End South
Durham, 17.9.1. ; Wails End Triteulou Thornier, 116. ;
Camay and Duffryn Malting, :r2s. 64.—Ships at market,
133 ; sold, 99.

BIRTHS, MARRIAGES, AND DEATHS.

BLUTHS.

D0N11.1.31 CARTE.P.—A?puIt 3.. at P W.l •, the u:f.. et

lkonliatu-Carter, Emi., 1r.1.. of a i..
DltiLmlEll.—Atigust 1, at 11 W.
C. 11TP:wt. Esq.. et .I.P.Tlll,er.
BRIIW NE.—Alt7tAlst 1, at Kluiberley, 1!.. W. E.

th wife of

. ,
E 4.1 ”f 3 soil.
STUN. —Au 2, at Charluttc.r. ts. •01 - ?fn.

_
W. it. Itrant..n..! a ...aughter.
001.11PINIi.—Autruist 1, at tar :rat, 1".1c1.4, .• 4.1 W
_ .

.........
ii.l.l.inte. E.g., of a ,11....r.htfr.
lIOLL/051.).—Amfest 3., at Lielvothsrc. 1,.. aik
of

....—..—.
H.—
I. Holland,'Lot., of .t r to. _
MOlLLY.—Atitfuttt 1, at ItoxiturX.: t 11111.
F. IL 5t031.1, of a

MA Alt] Ar.F.s.
BREESE-101,1/410171'.—Auw:•; •••••!.r.• .!Isil. 'try .111:1'.•:t,
Immuliir,, by tit., ttev. 11. 1; 0.: : • Es,l ~f
t • •Llt.;htet .1 .T
" • •.

SIANIMOND-11,01.N:E..—Ang.no. 9, at rh:ir:ll
Itsrelehone. I.y Ito 41. grentel. iloorge ‹.el
0:. ef rortlverplae.. :ionilteripn.n. t.t Inio•
dv.trbler of W. 11. Lei., of Ileau..,ent,.tr,
!Itkrylehne.
‘1,2-.4 11. et Much II I.t.ite,
lierts, by the Roe. I. II to•i 5.,. ti...
Pllllllrnore.l.e,.. t., Caroline Aephi.., inneriiter of the
;tee. T. Mu... 100,
—.knout t. st Sr. John's. ',Voir I iI.
%VW.. Lai., of on•Tyo“. to I. cu., In• 7..
of the Lat.. W. li. Cro,4 Eq., ef e

DE %TITS.
ille6:AnN.—Au.zu.t I. at r”ast. I:ru.is as.." lark. af
4,eammilatea. Arehibaby I.l.eks Lae 11.11.'•
Irta Voot, In lit .:e.th year.
EI.K

c.:.dor

.4 the Iter. K. agu.l W.
LAVENDER.—AuguIt Emm.41114, 4:uttht r. 4 the late F.
_ .

Lavender, Esq., of Woierat.n..
LENOX. —Aticast" at 11c.irlitfo ea Ferry. IL•ar
lwad. Sarah, wifeuf Mr. A W. 1a1v,x,..f
l'itATT.—Auttu4 1, at the I;ranze, tit
-_ - .

Pratt- late 17th 1...1.60en., stol
sAtttlifANT.—Augu,:. 3. at. Ite.: %111.1. W., afoot 31..rt!,.i.
•tfe of S. florwont. ag, 1 62.

ryinte,l and Pub!label by Wituma KIN.) ILitm. ?""
Luntbard-strent, in CM 1.1:y T, ,tun, Imanr, st
In Lbubar.l-ste..t, the et,:lact 111tAtatriar,"•
TUE.SDIT, 4,4;;1:b7 7,