The Express.
London, England, 1860-05-18 00:00:00

Vcq.U!ITEER.S.

Colonel TRENCHwI.tiTa-dt-hiii right hos. Mead
the . /sr War whether he het any olijectioo to lay
rapes tbe I.W qie. of any c onniimicatinni Tonle by Lord
Cottle, tin Meal-be,itentnt of the comity ..f Smear to
the Warman/ in relntion to the elmrgei
taileat4leisael litearbWr aga'net Captain Itoioo, of the lii
egligmerey Tolnideers!
it 111121111111 ff •iid all that he knew waa that rier•
W bees *out to the War ~Mow a,iinst
erworilioy they were referred
tbm. wito ?emptied that they were retablishol,
sp.d p Lord llane called upon him to re-
sign he emeread With e:Cddi. to the charge. against
Captain Rome he bad no kw of them for the Lnot•
Lieutenant lawt no. thonlit it rig t to forwent them to the
Warollos He had not wee the letter ham which the
brat. owl gallant caber bad read ea extrxt. The
Lord Lieutenant did reit asy that the charge of mutiny woe eminp,.fteat, hut whet he meant to rev was. that the state-
ment it affiwted (',Hain ROMP did sot arena to bear nut
the charge of mutely and insubordination. Nothing, bow.

THE

ow, had ears to the Waage of what had takes place,
tad thentare he woe quite unable to answer the questions
Mire.

Coked NORTH said he hoped the right hoc. gentleman
would all upon the Lord-Lieutenant to report this matter
to the War-oilier No mu in the house or the errna•
try entertsioed greater admiration of the veins-
tear regiments than he did. He believed they possemsd
the Name loyalty, the same gallantry, and the seam devotion
▪ belonged to the line ; bat their &Daphne ooOt not to
derail their own will, but upon that of Qom who
them The Lord.Lienteneat seemed to have
trawled mutiny sad insubonlinstica is • matter of course,
hat V this wore esatieue• he should like to know what
would become of the corps. He should be sorry to hear
that the right ben gentleman viewed this ionabordinatioa
is a matter Of 4111111110, sal therefore he trusted that no time
would be lost im making further inquiries into the whole
matter. Me.)
The A RNEY-GENERAL reseming to tin
of the subscription, odd Mid whet =
dated we. simply that the role et wawa kw was Waft-
bile to the in**, of the realg hut it swan bad bean de-
Wad that • mw lenipar midst in this country could
suns emir tin. snoVs.ef an words " subjects et the
Quer." • USW hawaree, undoubtedly wee Mist
aandast wide • waling of the Queen Would he
would, if adepted loy s foreigner, also be in-
astable. Bat it would Is difficult to say how far the rule
ought to be myriad. Par let him put • case. Suwon •
native been mabioct of this mans to send a hundred thou-
sand pemets to Garibaldi. that act would be a mil&
marrear, iedidable et onomea law ; but supposing a Sici-
lia Wipe bio de the same act, in the absence of any desi-
st" he (the Attarney-Oanemn should hesitate about giving
a *Wen that that Imo as asses at common law.
HONULL algid that some etmemmt ought to be
maim hi thieves whisk the government intenda to Mho
with mud to the matter. Would a subseriptica got up In
Prestos or Rai fer Mr purpose of basing the bean Dr
Lai from the rule of this emir, he tolerated ! He pro-
tested egaiael an Mast mho en the Pope by Mr. Janne,
when he said the. the army of his Wawa under Lanwri-
cike was intended to memesms his anblosts.
Mr. MALIIIII AM • dokomi of the inks-
dome of the in this matter &wild be made.
Mr. 111G•12 ocinpleinsd that net oaly were man
enlisted in this asentry far the arm se of the Pope, but
the mina at onatrilintisa gonad " Peter'syoar," which
had been forbidden by a statute of this realm, had beet
✓ooted

B. OSBORNE said ha was not about to enter into
theqesstlea of ealislamen in Inked, since that sub
ms not before the buss. (Hear.) The o
was that mooted by the boo. mom
-
herinks Chanty (Nr. Hungry) ; and to his Wad ft
was • very serious goestiou. The subject had arises
through the very elaborate rower gives the other
night by the hon. and learned gentleman the Solleitor-
deassel, who had been universally thrown over by every
Wryer in han home, including his own colleague, the At-
MseerGeseral (Laughter.) He most say that he heard
the answer of the hoe. and learned gentleman with great
=but at all omen they had ascertained ow dung
unseal dismounts to-night, namely, that the sob-
serlption in aid of the Garibaldi expedition was, strictly
mmennag, illegal. (Hear, hear.) It war another question
whether it would be advisable for the government to pro-
secute, but still there could be no doubt that it was the
place of her Majesty's minders to give expression to their
with roped to the subject in that house.
they mice gave way to countenancing this sort of
thing, what could we say to oar friends the
Amerboas? The boom might recollect what draw ha-
pless ins used ia this esualleY some years ago with regard
to the attempt to tabs Hamanah. (Hear, beer ) Having
a with the flag of Naples and much liking
tel iwans".4, be yet considered it his duty sa a member of
iCagaad to truckle to mere out-of-doors feelings—
i Mar)—but to express the principles which should
annehe the at seek • conjuncture. He desired to
razgaquestias to noble lord the Secretary of State for
Affairs. He had read with some coesiderable sur-
prise that the expedhlea of General Garibaldi ins mainly
assisted in lambi et Hanna by English monk Whether
this was true or sall, it me a very prevalent idea an the
Gentioent that eon was the ease. It was therefore
hopornat this ponies sheen be put as some larger
Ban it bad hitione bees from the Treasury
The whole subject bed been narrowed to a mare law pia
dee=thoughtHo • minister of some authorityshould
bow far it was true the expedition of
bed been manly forwarded by English vessels. He mast
admit that IN believed there were roost native irramallties
with the axpolitioe in that house— (hear, Usti—end be
could operation she_ u• but he had • higher duty to w-
fern. If thor were helmet lanes donde, at
nation thsy_ensitt net show their sympathy by breaking
the law. (Hem Wen)
The O'DONOGHIVE mid be had recently presided over
two mestinp, the ebjecte of which were to express
sympathy with the Woe, and be would state that he had
sever dose anything is kis life of which be felt so proud.
He wee we the home mold p with hiss, that there wa •
/eat dilommee between ssaM •
_ltinate bonnie in
his owe densinions, awl aseitlng mink to overthrow their
lar=f. (Hoar, bear.) He Weded, lowover, the
vent dote what mums they Whined to ink..
Len J. BIIIMMILL—The len member leas(r Limbered has
reed me • penes with nosed to he bo st the expo-
, Mien of Gowen Garibaldi, and the skip whrek are mid la
wens Wagner to have protected the disembeelkatim at
his men I resolved to-day so account hem the Admiralty
nab bed been Imimmitted by the cam semseneding cos
et these smeels. the balmapit Them is very esmiderable
BrMik atw en d Manok. sad Wee
at the I
Usilyle when it wee
orgsmtsi be • Wing NNW spiffier
thee have bees made both Se thelleedipailles hoe and to
Admiral hada the essemasder is the Mediternaran,
to seed air hr We polestion o British sub-
=duer to .
Adman Feashswe had f oopequently
bed two ship is that wask the Intrepid and the Area.
He states that visa they werettz in two Neapolitan
ships et war, • steamer and • and sip-
06Marsala, WA ale* he ganglier 'slight have
lete the van* whisk owned Garibaldi and kis
felewesi4 he doss set say. act knowing soothing of the
story ~los dime beau told, that the )1t1;h AIM
' prirreeled them. Be any ..p that, although bed aa
ty Mag. they did Dot firs. R.." ,
=at! the spa had landed, and whim the mernmat
steamers were not totally abandoned, but had diessabarked
the troops of Garibaldi, the officer the Nor
Tolima steamer asked him if he would send an boat
to take pounsicsa at thee steamers. The • anew,
Captain Parry, sum properly declined to do so. (Hear,
hear.) His instructiens did not aorthorin him to take pee-
mein of thous fiardiaian noes* or so me any hod&
operaticw spinet laws ; but it was his purpose as well as
km instruction from his government to be entirely neutral
with respect to the ecolbet which was ping on. (Hear,
hear.) There/me, though this officer does not gin • direct
timid to the aswertioa that his ship prevented the Nes.
politut vessels from Snag. I think we may onside" Wei
kis afiXllll6 of the nuaraction implies such • denial. It
does appear, however, that the Neapobtan captain asked
him to "ma from Mufti& say of ids oaken who might
he es sheen He oomented to de se. aid innedistely
pet up • signal for that purpose, and after the officers had
*ems ea beard the Wog wee opened on the town of Mar•
ash by the Nespolitaa needs. That lams be ooesidered as
to set of internatioun courtesy on the part of the ifigm
litaa captain, by but it no mews Minna Mat the
ships were at all ie the way of tint thing. It does not
appear, therefore, that the British captain in any way
exceeded his duty. Hs wee at the spot for the protection
of British life sadahmFliy, sad ho acted ia that capacity
sad in no other. bear.) Now I say • few
wads--and they Flit'
• very few—with respect to the
raw which has been so much discussed to-night. Of
cosine I will not touch upon the question of law on which
hoe. and lammed pationien on opposite aides of the home
have given sack edibles disquisiti although I cannot
smortaio ham them tkwt m say ' one it would be
Mee for the goverament to enter • prosecution. (Hoar.)
It is eate thing to state what is the general purport of the
law. No me (end I. that more clearly or with more
authority then my be.. sad liaised Man the Attorney-
, Omeml : but It wend he pile another question viral;
the geneumsed ewe to institute • prosecution, hey
wend be able to *Wait • caniction, Now, the hon. aid
leased geetlemea opposite (Mr. Matins) says, "punish
immediately then peewee who put those advertisements in
the nempapers." lam rather earprieed to hear a lawyer
lay that, because what eddies, him we, la the first place,
of who put in the advertisements ha this re! Toga
must go first to the printer of the sompaper l entleanter
to obtain from him enders es to who those parties are,
mid next you mot rained them with the advertisements,
the enbeeriptions, and anything which nay have subs,-
gaseth taken place.
MALIbM---There are amass given in the advertiae-
amts.

Lord J. RUSSELL —There are zanies given by the Times
newspaper, but I am not perfectly oonviered that if M.
Safi and others whose names do impair, would at once
admit, if they were asked by the Attorney-General, that
they had authorised their names to be used, and that they
had collected subscriptions for the purpose of 'raking
war ca the King of the Two Skilless I Hunk it would be
necomery to prove that in evidence, and that whams.'
would have to he called to show that the printer of the
riiiet had not wantonly or without authority inserted
those mama. Otherwise we might all be at the mercy of
the printer of the Tines newspaper. He might give the
names of the whole cabinet as having subscribed large sums
to levy a war apunst the King of the Two &idles. (A
lases.) Hthe government thought et to moment* in this
agleshey would be obliged to ask the law officers of the
ersent what means they had for insuring a conviction. All
I ma my is that f do not remember a case of any IRIOOIII-
- prosecution of persons who subscribed for the purpose
▪ ataistsiaing an um:rev-Lion or war in Poked or in any
ether country. There is one country, with regard to which
I mealled perfectly wdl that I myself was guilty, along
with a number of distinguished persons, of such
na sea It was when there was an insurrection in
Grimm We carried an our proceedings very openly. We
were mienbere et •eammitiee which met, I think, at Lord
Tltewilliania, in Graimeor-equare, sad afterwards we held
a public meeting In the City, and I did not and that there
was any great aid at that time to prosecute us ; nor did
I safer sari igipriseamert is iniesequenee of the course
which we then aderled (laughter.) After all the virtu.
ous ilid6rll46oo which has jest been shown, this question
appears to be one of COlllllllOll law, which has; sot vet been
solved, and that would require a great deal of consideration
before the 'oven:meat suthorisd a prosecution. 1 And

that there is • pest contraristy of opinion on this subject
Boa say, "Whit • wished thing it is to go and
telos part in • war 'Oast the king of the Two
end an inourrection 'wind his government."
Ottawa:ME say, " Why, that is not so very had ; but
e Ming to go and wick tam fts--that is •
grim and it ought not to be pormlMed" But really
if pm aunt to consider them peationa, either of immune.
times or of luau tinsel law, you will find that they must
be especrate from seek other. Take ouch • case as that of
Wenner, who invaded • state on the emit of South
Assarien when he really had no riOt of any kind to go,
and who *d nothing to support but his own selfish in-
tends. That is one case ; but you may also have quite •
different me—that of a patriot fighting for the
of his country. !Hear, hear.) It de-
="dossregentlemen's own opinions and sympathies,
and ultimately on the judgment of history, to pronouncs
which is the roes of the filibuster and felon, and which is
the ease of the patriot and hero. We all remember that we
mot had • great Illbenter who landed in the month of
Member, WM on the SOldll•WIllt earl of England—
daschterj—whore he not sal with considerable sup-
port, bat where the while flocked round
Man (" Hoar, boor,' and • cry of "No.") That filibuster-
ing edlsaMiliolt we maple.* snesantal. These are cane
is width it is not enough to say, " Here is • mesa
in retelliM Garibaldi is • man who is fighting
spinet his sevondip wham he ovslA to support.
It is not eesugh to ay dune thew hi • glib
and twat mower. These queollons, whether we
Woo then se genstions of law, or of Pura; or of politics,
rpwie a good deal of Paucination Were yes sea
moral Manse or moral /onion en thane who co-
pp in eeeli undsrteldnp. (Her, bar.
.With roped to
Hie sad et of the government, I woad not per
mit or pledge them la any way ha prosecutions
isis thiaeme mesa (Hew, beer.) elivor we Ind there le •
la poly outrapd, it is ear** bte to see
Mot it is s amid out. That bee been done undoubequerdlydly is
mese of boarees el the Foreign Nallincral Let,- bat Uwe
hes been at the owe tins, eves with raped to that dictate,
oonoldirabl• in carrying it into effect, and I cannot
myself find
.say general deelmation of the law of this
roinitry requiring us to prosecute those who raise sahearip-
time Isere and apply the money to the arryi g on of the
war against the King of the Two Sicilian (Hear, hear.)
11 Mr. WY LD said, es the house was always disposed to do
justice to private character, he rose for the of de-
n the assertion that Garibaldi had issued • blasphemouus
non, that he was • member • secret witty,
which sought tomplieh its objects hyof
amminstion He
was too noble, patriotic, and chivalrous • man to be the agent
of any dark intmgme for effecting his political objects. (Hear.)
Mr. MAGUIRE contended that the government had
don everything in their power to create and oounteseeee
revolt against the King of Naples, and in very strong lan-
guage protested against the adoption of principles which
might mese day be turned against ourselves.
DANBY BEYHOUR said that just now, whale the
noble lord the Foreign Secretary was apeeking, be asked •
friend who at next him What do you think of Lred
John's view of the Sicilian insurrection!" width* reply WY,
"I think he is holding • motile to it." (Chemsand laughter.)
He thought himself that the noble lord had taken up too
dscided an opinion on this question. The noblelord °Mainly
had held out very strong encouragements to those who
wire willing to assist General Garibaldi.

Lord J. itBBELL-1 beg the hon. gentleman's pardon •
I 'avow opinion at all, eithar for or *gamin it. I said
G*l all theme is... mast be Paikisd by Merest pantlemen
opseesdhin to
whatever. their own views and opinions ; but I pre no
inion
DANBY SEYMOUR—It I underwtood the noble
lord orisbt, M ocaspered Garibaldi to our William 111., and
the is%By to 168& (Hair, hear.)

Lord J.11:121111LL—I compared General Walker with
WMism Di Lad* la Maglabd. (Hear, hem, and a bosh.)
Mr. DANDY SEYMOUR said that me certainly snob an
rosiep as he should have Wet expiated to hear from the
noble hoed—a semparims of Ommal Walker with William
IL Bat he thought, and he believed many other hon.
were under the same impressions, that the tone of
rare, lord's speech was to the Median insur-
rection. (Cheers.) He ma certainly to hoar that the
noble lord dad not allow such to hays been his intention,
berme he thought the position of this country
should be one of non-intervention. If thin
was any country in the world that lived in
a ear-house, it was our own ; and if we encooreged
dß-
berles, or any persons who believed that they were
invading a country in order simply to better it. govern.
moot, we might have those doctrines turned against our-
selves. It seemed to him that it was a matter entirely of
="alell,6arrie MooleeddaneTl, wofo:d cratirertillethotditioGetirl
the Whims ; bad that in the case et Deposal Walker, he
would pot lays doss ss. Hs (Mr. Daa our) quite
awed with those who thought that if he rue-
goaded in Sony, and if he ma alds to placea stable
might very madly set up a better one
the N government. (Hear, hear.) But
when we foresaw the peat didlculties that must arias if Geri-
baldi succeeded la ehWeetlag. Melly from the rule of
Naples, and the Martmeas complicates' which must ensue
upon that event, perhaps oar boat wishes might be
directed to seam a bettor eat in Mealy, but
wishing, at the male VMS, that it should not be taken
hone ihoae who wore at present its lawful sovereigns.
The subject than dropped.
GUNBOATS.
- - - -

atr F. 81ISTR asked the 13e;retary to the Admiralty
whether he would have any objection to discontinue the
Week* up of the defective gunboats until full opportunity
Iheahlhave been afforded for examiniogthem, under the direc-
the al the select committee appointed on this subject. What
belielesi *urge upon the Admiralty was that. if they now
at am Mb tip these gunboats, they would deprive thee-
ogle cif the needful evidence for prosecuting or sizing the
000loadors, in case the legal advisers of the crown should
Namaland them to do so.

lir J. ELPHINSTONE urged that the select committee
should inquire into the whole question of the construction
al gunboat' and other small vessels for the navy. It had
sow become evident that gunboats were a moat Important
means of defence for the country and parhameut should
acariar how that arm of the service amid best be supplied.
Lerd C. PAGET said with regard to the mortar boats
at Chatham, it was too late to prevent them from being
brakes op ; be thought by this time that operation must be
pretty forward. But in the came of any other gun vessels,
the Admiralty would leave them as they were until it
shed& be decided what course to pursue.
dir C. NAPIER quite agreed with what had been said,
that thi "abject could not be too often disclosed. Mr.
Orem append to have let the eat out of the bag. Hassid
it wee tot the cosibraction so Una as the Admiralty who
wen to blame ; ha eoesplairell that there was not corient
impeetioe, and he accounted for the bad work by saying
they were obW to do it hi the night.
Admiral WM.COTT said he had hitherto kept silence as
thi subject because he thought the Secretory of the
Admiralty had promised all that could be expected of him
under the circumstances. If the statement of the eettrecion
wee true, that they represented to the Admiralty that they
°odd not get seasoned timber, and that they were autho-
rised to we unseasoned timber, that appeared to
absolve them, but it appeared to him extssordinary that
when there were only 110 min meals to be built the
contractors should not have wheat timber for the
THE CIVIL

Hr. Ai?GUSTUS SMITH asked wlts-a flesh..tflitates
were to be brought before the hare? They bad now beat
Main four moatba, sad the largest of these eg
No. 7, had not yet bees plated befogs than. Ile al=
whether the estimate would include the expeaditare for
the Woods and Forests. It was recommended by the cow
matte that them should be an estimate of the expenses of
that as there wee for other departments. That recom-
mendation was made three years ago, and was aot yet
carried out.

Yr. LAING said he should be varf mush delighted if
the honourable member would enable to reply to the
bat question, as to when it was intended to proceed with
the civil estimates. It must depend on the course of public
which wee beyond his control. It would be war
1:111More Whitsuntide for the government to ask the
house for • vote on account of the civil estimates, as was
dose hat year, and the estimates would be proceeded with
at the earlisM opportunity that the state of public Moho.
would permit. As regarded No. 7, it contained the miscel-
laneous velem which stood over and could not to mom.
Mhos' till • late period of the session, and it
wee not meal that that estimate should be presented
till • late period of the session. He could only my that
it should be printed and is the hands of meruberssome time
before any vote was asked under it. With regard to the ex-
peoditure of the Woods and Forests, that involved • grave
constitutional question. In 1851 a committee inquired into thus
subject, and the result that they came to was, that .the
salaries should be in the estimates. As regarded the revenue
which was given up by the crown in the first
year of the reign of every monarch, they did
not recommend any departure from the usual course.
The estimates would therefore be submitted to the house in
their usual farm.

Mr. DISRAELI expressed a hope that the practice of
taking votes on account would not be allowed to become
chronic. (Hear, hear.) There might doubtless ►e cases in
which that course might properly be resorted to, but it
should always be viewed with suricies as belay a mode of
voting mosey by which no real examination could be made
by parliament into the expenditure of the country. (Cheap.)
The motion for the adjournment of the home wee than
agreed to, and an order wee made that otimmittees might
sit notwithstanding.

AND WINE LICENSEE BILL.

The committee a• t6u 6111 ;;;;;;;&4;i7.

Mr. AYRTON was of opinion that it would he Ninth
to carry oat the clause as it skim', and suggested that it
should be altered so as to enable the magistrates to cow
eider these came at their usual meetings.
Mr. HUNT &leo doubted whether sufficient time wee
snowed the magistrates to deal with applications which
were objected to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would move
a proviso to the effect that when there was an objection,
the bench might lodge a caveat with the supervisor, and
that soother period of thirty days should beim to rem from
the date of that document. (Haar, beer.)
Mr. PULLER thought that the right hen. geatternan bad
better not depart from the mu-binary which already
existed for gnuiting ale licenses. AM that was weated was
to define sod modify the pounds upon which the *tires
might refuse the bones. (Hear.)