The Express.
London, England, 1858-05-14 00:00:00

(Stamped id. AdditiosaL)

remagemaa weskl be fully brought to light, and that
• mamba of the whole system would ems. Joint sleek
banks should be required to produce annual statemasta of
their stake, pooped, authenticated ; and them should be
made public. He would take this opporhustty of urging as
the Chancellor of the laelsequer that the shareholders of the
Western Bank should be authorisexi to sell their privilege of
issuing notes ; the oouutry had been deprived of a &muta-
tion of 337,00 W , and about 60,000/. alight be realised to the
distressed shareholders.

Mr. J. C. EWART wu of opinion that if the liability of
banks was limited they would not discount in the reactor
saner they now did. The stoppage of the Lirerpool Be-
rough Bank had been precipitated by its discounts bpeedattre•
Axed. He was opposed to any legislation on the so
thinking that if beaks were compelled to publish
Matements the public would take °are of themselves.
Mr. H. B. SHERIDAN refarra to the ease of the colt). 1
nisi basks, which had limited liability, and which were very
saccassfully managed. He thought It was rather the pia- I
geof unlimited than of limited liability that was ou its

Mr. SPOONER said he should vote for the bill. (Heart
hear.) He was decidedly opposed to the principle of limited
nabGity, bat as it had been established by the legislature in
certain awe, he would make it general. (Hear, bear.)

- -
The CHANCHLLOR of th; IXCHHQUER Tidied to
give the reasons, in a few words, why ha should support the
mond reading of this bill. (Hear, hew.) It appeared to
him that the object of the bill was to terminate • restriction.
A principle had been adopted may finandly, both by p•rha-
meet and the country, and applied to all trades end
occupations of tommerce. An exzeption had been wads,
be timer, originally from a plausible and pruden-
t'sl feeling,hut tee which could not be vindicated on any
aid white no exprienes of the operations erg bank-
longer Jewry. (Hoer.) H. agreed with almost
all who had preceded hem, that the discussion ought not
to involve any investigation of the soundness of the principle
•f limited liability. (Hear, hear.) It was not now before
the house; they had solely to reedier whether the applica-
tion of that principle should may longer be withheld from the
beeriness of niting. (Hoer, boar.) It appeared to him that
all the complaints that bad been made ea to the hardship to
creditors in the event of the failure of a bank of limited
liability would have no be ndatlea whatever, if that sufficient
warning were given which they knew practically could be
given. No doubt it was a great question whether this exten-
sion of the principle of limited li•Wity would be of much
advantage or not. He oonfesesd he could not help thinking
that it would be • very difficult competition for banks
founded on limited liability to contend with those on the
principle of unlimited liability. (Hew, hear.) Should it
turn out that the latter continued to command the confidence
and suet of the public, no great danger could result from
the application of ibis principle and the termination of the
restriction ; but if, on the other hand, the abuses of the prin-
ciple of unlimited liability which were flagrant prevailed in
public opinion, no one could deny that the result of paring
this bill would be to eareurage • tendency to prudence in
the public mind. (Hear, hear.) Theodore, either way—
whatever alternative they took—if the bill wan not prods.-
tin of row very great der, they 'radii only be in the ease
position as they were before—while, if it did produce con-
siderable results, the consequence would be more prudent
conduct on the part el the community, and is the general
moass tof banks. (Hear, haw.) Therefore, it seemed
taamathat there was no sound principle on which
they could waist the second reading of the bill.
He agreed with Sir C. Lewis that the position of the note-
holder was a peculiar one, and that some legislative rota-
tire should be provided fur him. It was a practical objection
to the bill on a former occerton, that this protection was not
riven, but it wss sufficiently provided by this bill. Al the
bill MI drawn, however, there wee one objection to It It
had a retrospective influence. (Hear, hear.) He did not
think that the shareholders of any bank now established on
the principle of unlimited liability should have the power,
under this till, of lessening that which their creditors would
suppose to be their principal securit. It might be said by
those who referred the wenrity of-unlimited liability, that
there was no rent probability of the change Pled '
end on the other hand it might be said that soma would
pea
such • change. At any rate it was founded injuries that the
creditors of any bank now established on the principle of un-
limited liability should not, against their own will and comet,
find their security changed into one of a limited character.
But if that objection were held to be valid, that could be re-
medied in committee ; therefore It was no reason for opposing
the kith The bill appeared to him to be the remarry eon-
sequence of that principle in our commercial legislation
which bed been already sanctioned. (Hear, bear.) He did
not think It necessary at present to give any opinion upon the
soundness of that great principle; but it bad been urged that
the principle of limited liability in commerce had not been
sufficiently tried. It might be perfectly trus that they had
not sufficient data before them to draw a sound conslualon as
to the excellence of that principle. It might be that they
should have ultimately to retrace their steps. Bat granting
all that, and he only assumed it for the asks of argument,
there was no mem why they should not apply that pare-
cide to banking. Because the experience of moulded st ear-
loft times induced them to believe that they bad bar Li
tar once, there was no reason why they should not reran
their stops in regard to banking as well as to commerce. There-
lore, believing that there was no valid reason for opposing
the second reading of this bill, he should give his vote in ita
farm. (Hear, bear)
The =ornament was negatived without a division, and the
bill was reed • 'send time. The oonunittee was appointed
fur Wednesday next.
CHURCH RATES ABOLITION BILL.

The hour. then watt Into commutes ;;this bill, by ad-
j ourn meat from the 21st ult.
On the questios that tassel, be armed to,
Sir J. TRELAWNY said Ite wished to cowed one or
two oshappreltandons which appeared to lave attain tn the
farmer debate. 111118T•001 had bean made to • return of the
parishes in which church rate. had been refused in the
last 16 years, and it wee said that these parishes were very
mall fa another. But it should be remembered that there
were a greet many other instances of large towns and popu-
lous arab" where church rase had bean successfully re.
stood below the period to which the return applied. Church
rates had manly ceased in Manchester for 20 years peat ;
and recently when it was unwary to repair the cathedral,
5,0001. was subscribed.ln Tavistock, church rates
W awed for more than tan years; nobody lad
thought el re- Wood acing them ; and the church wee repaired
in the most satisfactory manner. Another yr
Vast church rates were a charge upon the liZratis be
denied. The law of church rates was /molded apes the
assumption that every person in the pariah used the =
church ; and since the decision in the Bralatratere,
rata could not be levied in opposition to a majority of the
raayers. Therefore the notion of their being a Ina ape
lead was afeanally disposed of. A panda had ben pa to
Dr. La minaire= whether church rates could be enforced at
all. Hie opinion was that they could, If properly laid ; bet
the means o(4l4o°e:deg these, having bass obsolete for 160
years, could not be employed with advantage. There were
numeral instances of churchmen complaining of
the burden of church rata, though this had been denied
oat • former oceadon. It had bees asked by Lord John
Russell bow they could have • national church without
some salami mans of It wee to make it • na-
tional dwelt that ha wished to get rid of await Mee.
It. thewaht it neoessery is ark* theft few remarks en the
subject eights rows, ea& should Le willing to adopt any
which would Improve the bill.
mr..deirilrFlTH Oat la large towns it might be
possible to Jeep the awler le repair by mem of voluntary
astribwdews, but so see seek expect that that would be
the ease le the lea thermal atentry perishes of Zegised.
The sees was paid la len /Web= Is pedestly voloweary
semere, ft was, la pet* id id, peg eel ed property. U
the _ta
stee et the 1111 ewe Misled •sy dwell sok Mr
en imed. fieberetrol Moth Bodoeilod Midair
the booth and essedithint ihrithee fa
wished for the satire *balks of church ratee"rilirbrZ
meters is the part of the emery with which be wee ear
aloud Ad wet ego the esteem view ea ibis geodes whisk
bee. pewskrese. They 'waned a aoss.
=tele se by
grewe peteiple we bulbul.
Mr. MIAMI oil that hi the Nth thpesed to meths
toy =id.* Ares as this sabgeik bet Aar new espeelothe
thou pother my ether boa. po la thst the" be
woe to the booth conelaken tha so owepresebe of Ms
garden wield be satidectory. It wee with that view be
pee soda of the thiralithrt width Mood la theap=dr.
lee ewer. He wee theme to meth the vibes
isea, se sir es lie mid& es endeleetly with the Mow be
ethortathed .• bet 100 add met uthetht oaf
which youth go to man the &Mathes Isseetha ieitherse
lad thimine peoparL Ho thourbt that to sameder
onion then awe" idling to the Mardi arrivey bat to webs
than ppaqp he the repair of the cow& table, the to sae •
deetssilen fee *the thee woe se itatheith. boa.
emits were goody to =Sew theihnothe loth
ibis
li
,they ought equally to view Ira fries the
other. (Haw, bow.) Apith, Seth •10
to towns whore is hese abillMudie dui le
news it is the , was to ere a Ive vim el the OW*
of Ragland. When 0001. woe wthielleNed by &Meet of
CrWinging Way to the pour demo le
aw smart at diet boil art
to believe diet the mob= of thebriaMt
Ensfori weal gam dander he AM fate Mop.
(Hem, bum) It 1,118 MOUS 1114 admitgyz
cethrigoir oat of the Aura Mee bodies the
Mole. (Her, beer) Ole ad the .
Wed k ens probeide that wet aloe Mrs troth to
the weir tithe eltarebew end was It weressery or deli
table to bap up • asthma sore sad deem la
=may pettier of leered es seseest et emit a
paltry woe t Meer, hem.) It woad be fir better to let the
law aloes thee dew it by ray egoism width should leave
molt s sauteefieelemeset 4 the . (Hoer.) Dory
wall sot de a more disteweee tbieg iben to wart taw
chord tabs and ether property raved ea the ease boded.
Maw.) Wes that reverty which 'add be Maws& by a
(terazneWlett the reisswelise the roweas
whisk -gave eadi ethotha to ahead rates awed
to islet, and leader etroweetmese there wee so gnat
lwaseellty la abaft that the boy of pop* than trot •

(TWOPENCE.

very imperfect obligation. Ile admitted that It was • duty
which was incumbent by law, but under the circumstanced
It was an Imperfect obligation, and one which he thought It
of
aw:liahMidr.l4l3ll.Wwile"Ohlaad'erli wasPaitia: m'anxithonsParters hothen. galleetgitietneaslaturefort°
law
wsettleatuf
übeautubt oftutitistut
ittionuu.
now stalls talc thaw.,
itouumuitnainbtaiit it;
buttha
whatever =be the amount, It was an anotent exnting
spews M funds for the natestation of the fabrn and
ought met to be swept away until some plan of replacing It
was decided In • proper statesmanlike manor. He would
Net wish to see the neosessry funds raised from an Illegitimate
each as pew rests. if that once became a custom
It w go far to alienate the church from the poor. A goo&
deal had been said of the unfainiess of the proposed system of
ticketing diameters. If they had any objection, lot the converse
eyeless te adopted and the churchmen be ticketed broad foe
min, would have no objection. An Idea had got athat
the diameters would not okqeot to • gement payment for the
suatentation of the Wino alone ha would rather give
give up church rates altoseller then adopt such • course ; If
they were to have a mare fabric rate, It would be the Am
step towards the continental system, wiser, the state bad
taken up the property of all religious! denominations. It
ought to be recognieed as a rule that those only should pay
the rate who used the church ; they could not shut thafreyee
to the existence of the large and influential body of die-
seaters who could not be made to pay the rate, and It was
neesesary diatomite compromise should be made; bat the
question could not be settled by • hurried fraguiestAry toll
Wm this. Let them exempt dissenters, but let the church have
the power of raising fon& under the midge of the old name,
let the rate be removed tram the opponent* of the temporal
court, and be mooverable only in pro softwaietia let the
as $ ocepopatkm have power to hold tremens under
ranee, and Mike aMe us its own members ; that
would be • proper end an Itenonsable settlement.
Mr. C. GILPIN denied that the present NU was either •
hurried or fragnientary one. Hs could not admit that It wee
••question for • stomprondee. It wee a question of con.
sokmos, er of nothing at all. If parties were willing to car
tribute, a oompulsory rate was not necessary ; if they were
not willing, • compideery nth was the worst kind et
tyrannythat affected the conacimos. It had been said that
the agitation was dying away. Such was not the case. The
vow In the Imam, which were • fair index of public opthbn,
showed the contrary. With regard to the ticketing—be had
no objection to being ticketed, but he objected to a rate on an
anwilli g churchmen as much as on • dissenter. The noble
lord the Sec etry for the Colonies had stated that he had
voted for the abolition of church rates, and would
do so again. He regarded It as • question, not
of policy and expedisocy, but of joatice and right. He
(Mr. OUpin) denied that the dissenters were urging this
question against the church; they did not want to take.
sway the power of reeking • voluntary rate; tut it wee a
disgrace to make a compulsory rate on en unwilling people.
He did not think so Ul of the church of England as to believe
that if deprived of this resource it would not supply the need
with the liberality it had displayed on other occesions. The
noble Premier had stead, In answer to a meat deputation,
that he had no doubt the bill would pass the Commons, and be
added to the questions now hung up between the two houses;
hat he (Kr. Gilpin) did not wish to see any addition to the
number of these questions. lie could not do better than
eddress mangers of the established church in the wards of
uttpteatiV ;hem member for the Unlvessity of Oxford who,
of the withdrawal of the letter
aid he thought the withdrawal would be beneficial
—it would wive a stimulus to exertion, and the
restate of the removal of the artilicial prop would
be that for every pound they had received from the SUMS
now oksed, they would derive an ample equivalent from the
love of the members of the church. He (Mr. Gilpin) be-
lieved that in like manner the withdrawal of church rates
would be b marlsl to the best Interests of the church and of
Christianity.

Colonel BRUCE would like to know whether It was pro-
posed toe:teed the bill to bootland. The dissenters from
the emteblished church there were enbjeot to spinets, charge.
He was obliged to pay for the repalr end building of the
&arch end of the WAIL (Heir, hear.) la one year he
was obliged to pay for the building of a °butyl more than the
rent of his property In the parish. Compleleta, however,
were waver heard In Scotland. They did nut NO how they
coati refitse to pay a burden that was attached to their land.
(Rear, hear.) They did not me how they could put into
their podmie what did not belong to them. (Rear.)

Mr. GABSIETT world veetu; to suggest • solution of
the problem under consideration, vial he hoped the house
world thidt deesrviag of attentioe. It had been truly said
that the greellon was not a rdere dissenters' question, but tee
in the aeldemeat of which churchmen as well ea dissenters
felt haply hiteresteL If the chum passel, he would propose
the sa cif NW ambling the ehurehwardens to collect co-
ls:Sew assirOmMems, to be tailed "Church offerings," to be
aseeted es the sow liable fur church rates. He
would the asses should he entered and the
spedled ; tire the obarehwerdene should take their
beet rearl, he eider dal nay we who wit...filing to do ao
might cisealbele She ashateassios of the church and its
whet; that tsy awe who deellsel So pay should have slate
te that afoot attached to his sane, and that for twelve
maths eft he should hare no valet la the vestry with re-
gad te asy church matter, sad that If he should be willing
10 pay at the end of that period his name should be motored.
At the lest penal 'desks the Resides of the Poor-law
Board (Kr. 8. Betcourt) eleerved to his oonstituents
that when • majority of the ratepayer declined to
peas • rue no rata ought to be made. What woo the value
of • property which bad to depend ups* such • contingency P
It wee not worth a yea'a purchase. Be believed that with
a little more r, • little more faith, and • little more
charity, all the of this question would soon be
'evacuated.

W. I. FOX said the hon. member for Riginahire
(Mr. C. Braes) a wares(lb. grievanne of the diameters
of Baptised to that .f the dissenters of England, bad over-
looked two important ditherer between the two ores.
In the first Ora, in Scotland, more pother than in aay
other country In the world, the church establishment, espe-
cially inclarg the free church, wee In unison with the
priadplee, wishes, end feelings of the majority of them people.
That wee one important
were
Another hat the
Olai ON for church rates were dame which werattached to
the had or other peps*, which was not the awe In this
country. It bed ham mill that the &arch builds's, of dr
country WMn rthael aspeety. They wife 110 • bat, that
being the ere, why was- • Lige genies of the ILIUM shut
out of them ? By the fah sad farm of the church, many
threaten wise se allniesally =dada r they would be
by Warr the pear Air the millary at the doors
to plover them her emalm. (Hear, hem) Some of
We of this WI Mori to Item arra rates ex-
les • mhembegy agemegrat. To that he led no ob-
jeetro es plod*. hit these who whirl kr • subetitute
=rbhp by se ammo speed se to whit it should be.
pm dr parr divemity of *Vas maw them, and
dlestatera might fairly my to there, •' Let these dilemmas
be War by the rambles a the church themselves ;
that vs ask Is to be freed k as unjust imposithis." He
druid MeMody MOM atheism dared as Mimeo" to this
et that dormierdeo. g.ir.) Hs might sot be Mr
pima leyieles WWI MO your to the rare faith he shoed
berfor
the madocimmater.) Them auggastioa of th• his.
res to hiiar more
asumely, Met sigesehmema= be ticketed ; lore =a
mash Neese== *Ma Mast meow Let
Mr ist
thee • *Wit be taud kor Us support;
so/ lehorhmso mated • Vista five =atria to ealemos
that rommerat le shoal met arm to Is.

Lead ICONCIL meld the ilsilriles era the bee. row
bar bed eagle to rehab between the arrow el Meallek
dbreers art der of dr Two Omit deedad, ear
dee to dont earemenle, di ate la writy add,
dam& am the meabers of the Pow Mr&
were dieralre frost el eetabllebed area so ler
lies Me t
learealoweide of tbd reentry. Oberebree were
thr If they word ea roormet he dr
al dr dry& dry leer peed& It de heaertre..o
arra ere dertwed 014 power la Ws meter by the beerpeererd Ida repeat to omordea ft bed act smddeary
with wide es diet areo ea 404 deasht It wild le
name dr the beer to /sow whet wee tie glade ef the
Hand Lords ea this draft bike peresiel say
team. The referley ed dud bore, wild d wee eroperd
of pledeers of &Mr of opirtr, feared be Wed-
✓ad with ewer( LaegbWir.)
Or 41. ILTON sold the quartos el adds( • watery
✓ebe bed aetl to do wld be dear eider earldenties,
ad be biped, deedure dr beer would prowl et are to
• &Alba era de dent belie It.
Mr. T. OOIIJXS abided that Ire bel em. $
reit
lepreramer ea I* rednewww, bet derldl pre
wee ledleled ea Ide dared I y the erkelbe
to rare rembireei. .1 de wand to vdr,Ansleylowed. its
Mr. IMO= odd dr patina d de reshry le IN.
vezedees reedoe wr torpid* eahereel. T
rem ape It
leaser Med et drier .7=
which wet Wel arawally, ow As bat vas shoed_
sad *my .(teary 'best that lire, neer testae of Lord
Derby, bodpeseeleed • eadebereyreirers of re terstioe.
He bearefamet the people el lieu' 11,,5e seeesed. sate as
to the rose Ivey r dld dee parr if Irked fa 1333.
Mr. 1113011 rid be mil are re at tree oreiter
epos di selper, bet bit wadi Mr straw ble *M dr
lt word be breed* de dr eta dellrellea to ellerdo
the law if deleret tt win weekred. bk lees r
Ore
wen se are rare, I. N. Ossillairs bed sin/Mel the
kw fee shored". levee yews sp. la der are arm
Mese yore • goaderie areal Brae bed bad •
weereat ewwd re b de obeeele mesa; be derikriesi=
der err, red was died tar dr
Court, tied deer weed rat to the reedy rimy
be lay Ow its reethq end wield bee letsawe lf Ind sot boa
_lie
woe the kr der the prat delbll4l
HTree bed hi e coeffekeedele maim Leg;
at an. (d leepb.) Ho sad sore edam had eebrelbel
Awes the mosey Ins art privately WI as ere bYe
tows to tbh de low the rear by will* he wee Ifleseelel
(laughter) lea 1841 sad 1818 hs was edial is to beep the