The Express.
London, England, 1858-04-20 00:00:00

(Stamped Id. Additional.) [TWOPENCE.

baser and disinter:Teets oltbstiountry were at Make, what did r
the people do in' reference to the scheme which the right
lee. smebsr for the University bad brought inward, which
t had sanctioned, end which the country had
age-
MilMepted—what did they do? Not ealy did they con- I
met that that errangement should be arrested in its progress,
bet that very tax wee mode the some by which the =sour
cif the country was meta Iced. (Chem.) Did the people
murmur? Not one = them ; and what hod taken piss in re-
ference to this tax proved =mistakeably that when= mer-
ging arose there was no =orifice which the polio wlekl sot '
make, no tax they would refuse typal, to optima the Memo
and the interests el the country. Maur.) As the how Is
aware, the tax wed isoressof by a large &motet, and who
the country urideestood the aectissity fm' it, eat a murmur
wen heard, nor until peace was restored was there say all
for • cessation of the war tax. Thee, but not dB then, was
the dem= made that the errangements made in 1863 should
be carried Into efts= There Is no doubt that the war has
°masked • Mimeos of abestesiMates in the financial posi-
tion =elm semery free that whisk existed et the time when
thisesseemless= woe peep=ed sad adopted. The poems-
neat charge es ewe* ad the pebble debt has increased con-
eiderably. Thies era temedossom like those Exchequer
Beads whithr_ gm= Ss *OA sail which no doubt are impedi-
ments den bid Piet, *sms wire these views were held
out. neat .1111.1.1111 which sensible people will accept
for nos delight their dhariantice or extinction of the tax,
but *bey ars pausal for which the people
will amlaresel She. Isiemisment ot 1863 ought to be &ban-
doped. (Her, beer.) I cm= help thinking that--looking
at these dams= cosaiderstices, and remembering that the
peocipiss sad teoldsainas at the tax were such as gave rise to
touch piddle desstiodeelos, sad which are likely it coetineed
to =hem the penes seed—it is highly inexpedient on
Somme ipestai thst the Imam tax likOald permaseatly
form put des tlsesibpatty. ties, bear.) The se
to the other grownds, whisk at. not cheeped by a great
national otilmolty, but which wee from outmost ciroum-
states* and political considerations—is ft not of the highest
=porton= that the sovereign of this country should be able,
with the commence of parliament, notwithstanding the im-
mense revenue that is raised to support the vast establish-
ments of the country—thatake should be able, on the
by • touch as it were of • spring, to mem a source
revenue which in the moment of emergency would
yield 20 or 26 millions of money without exciting
• murmur from • single person—a sum equal to
the large= loans raised by • foreign potentate, and
which ;have nearly exhausted the resources of a great coun-
try ? (Haar, hear.) Is it not important that the sovereign
of this country should be able, when the emerging
to commed, without having recourse to •km a sus
to 20 or 26 millions of money ? Meer, hear?.) That le •
reams drawn from political causes why I agree with all
those who have maintained, as the right honourable member
for the University of Oxford has maintained in more unequi-
vocal langsage than any one, that the income tax is not
adapted to become • parmaneut feature in the revenue of the
country. (Cheers.) But, str, though these may be my
opinions, and though I cannot but believe that they are else
the opinions of the great majority of this house—and though
1 cousider, upon grounds of the highest political expediency,
that the errangements of 1863 should in spirit, if not abso-
lutely in the letter, be carried into effect—tt is still possible
that the country, though anxious to obtain this relief,
and though it may have confidence that parlia-
ment really end sincerely intends it—the country
might not be altogether unprepared if there were a deficiency
in the revenue of the year to submit to a burden the same as
that of last year. It might be said, There is • great deficit
before us, the revenue is not go flourishing as it was some
time ago ; and II we retain the income tax at the same rate
as last year there will= still a deficit ; and let us trust to the
future. (Cheers and • laugh.) Bat that is the view of the
me which it is my duty to place before the house. (Hear,
hear.) We have in our revenue • deficit—not arising from
en is to pay debts, but from the cessation of taxation,
whkL must be supplied by taxation—and that deficit would
be converted into a surplus if the country thought proper
to continue the income tax for another year at the same
rate as it stood in the lest. They might do this
with • sincere intention of carrying the right hon.
member's (Kr. Gladstone's) plan into effect. But there are !
other considerations which ought to influence na In theft
mettles. The country has behaved extremely well during
the last five years. (A laugh.) Tba country has behaved
exceedingly well during the last five years in the matter of
taxation. (Hear.) Ido not think there Is any instance—
certainly there is no occasion in English history—in which
en much public spirit has been evinced by the community in
regard to taxation, as has been shown within that period.
No doe= the country generally has this question of the in-
come tax much at heart. They have, for a long
time, Indulged in the belief that, notwithstanding the
adverse circumstances that have occurred, there has

beefy—
en the part of parliament, a sincere inten-
tion to get rid of time tax—(hear),—and I cannot but
suppose that if I were to ask you to:re:St:demur which
would bm an easy manner of again your promise to
pa sing
sad to get oat of your ties by agar
a law to prevent the neeisron which the right hoe.
member for the University roared to the country, of the
diminution of the rooms tax—l oannot but think that if
you accepted such a proposition you would take a course that
would sour the public mind, and that when a great emergency
again arose, you could not awed with the same recess to the
same cordial confidence tibia on this occasion bee met the
minister who had the direction of the finances of this country.
And therefore, sir, I have to announce that it is the delibe-
rate opinion et hat Majesty's ministers that this deficiency
in the revenue ought not to be supplied by proposing an
increase to the income tax. (" Haar, hear," and cheers.)
But, says Mr. Fitzroy, if the fall of the income tax is not to
be disturbed, if the income tax this per is onl to give us a
revenue at the reduced rate of 54. in the you d.we pro-
pose to takethat course—(. bear,bear," and cheer)—the house
must feel that it is abeolutely necessary to preserve the
revenue of the country by the imposition of new taxes.
(" Hear, hear," and murmurs.) I -know I may be told by
some gentlemen that we can obtain relief beat by the reduc-
tion of expenditure. (Hear.) Allow me, however, to say that
reduction of expenditure is not a task to be undertaken
in haste and heat. (Hear, hear.) It requires time, deep
end protracted and minute investigation, and although it
may be very possible to effect certain reductions by proposi-
tions made to the house at any moment, unless such pro-
potionit are founded on mato% Investigation and ample
knowledge, they could eel) lead to • fatal reaction of ex-
penditure. (Hear hear.) We have made reduction, in
expenditure, which are not without consideration as to their
amount. I say that the reduction of 800,0001. which we
have made this rear is an item which is not to be despised.
(Hear,bear.) Bat let me impress on the committee, as I
have den said on previous occasions, that reduction of ex-
penditure depends on policy. (Hear, hear.) It is a false
idea to suppose that a body of men, even though they be
ministers, can meet in a room and alter the expenditure of the
country, which after all must depend upon the policy, pursued
by the country ; and if you sanction a policy which tends to
the probability of invasion, which necessitates the keeping up
of expensive armaments, producing &consequent expenditure,
you cannot expect to deal effectually with that expenditure
unless you also deal with the policy which has produced it.
(Hear, Ur.) I say this in order to chow that a real reduc-
tion of expenditure is a question of thought end MO ma-
t, and is not to be dealt with in baste and with the
deliberation only of a few months. (Hear, beer.) I say
that it has been impossible for us to deal with the ranks
of expenditure effectually since we have been in Mika—
(bear, hear)—and I say also that, situated as we ere, we
must deal with it in the bast anenaer we can ;
and to tell me that I must make rednecks, in
expenditure, unmindful of those that we have actually
made would not be a candid course en the part of the com-
mittee, and I do not believe that any gentleman will call
upon me to do so. What we have to do is to maks our re-
venue and expenditure meet now and when we hen=
tarty and time to submit our 'patens of taxation to
and under favourable circumstances to make considerable re-
ductions in our expenditure; but it would be worse than
mockery were I to pretend to tell the house that I could at
this moment male any considerable reduction, and that
without thought and consideration. (Hear, her.) In the
ungracious office of selecting a new tax I am at least some-
what upheld by the consolatory conviction that
every person who is called on to pay it, either
directly, or indirectly, will feel the benefit of the
reduction of taxation which occurs this year by the fall of
the income tax. (Hear, hear.) When we remember what
the country and the hove has expended of late years, I hope
the committee will not forgot, in considering my proposition,
that we start with the fact that by the operation of law the
country is entitled to, and will soon enjoy, a oonaiderable
diminution of a tax peculiarly odious to the people of this
country, and which benefit the country will measure, not
oely by the immediate amount of remission which is to take
place' but will also accept it as an earnest that the policy of
1853 will be carried out. (" Hear, hear," and cheers.) The
mode by which I propose mainly to attempt to supply the
deficiency which remains is by asking the house to
agree to a proposition which, it appears to nee,
Is reasonable and wise. I ask the house to agree
to equalise the duties on spirits. (" Hear hear," and
murmurs.) The committeerecollect that ere have been
legislating on this subject now for several yens ; and we cal-
reqnently have great experience to guide us with reser to
the course we should adopt and the result we are likely to
attain. In 1863, the duties on Scotch and Irish 'perils ems
raked, with great benefit to the Exchequer, with an increase
of oonsumption, and without any addition to illicit distiUstien.
In the following year they were again raised, at equal rates
and with the same results. In 1865 the right hon. gentle-
man the late Chancellor of the Exchequer
the duty on English and Scotch rits • an again
co
the advantage to the 111111111_111114
an increase of consumption, and no addition to flEell
distillation; but, strangest of all, with the greatest bard
to the Scotch, whose duties were raised. (" How, beer,"
and laughter.) This may appear to be a paradox, bid it is
a dry fact, for by the raising of the duty they wee freed from
as embarrassing and injurious restriction, end had the fall
benefit of the English market. Since 1866, the duty on spirits
baring been raised, and an equalisation tithe duty on Broke
spirits haying taken place, and a differentia duty remaining
on Irhit Write only, the result has beta most satisfactory,

end has been obtained, on the testimony of those who are
acquainted with the fact, without the slightest appearance
of an increase of illicit distillation. Look at the
pakten in which Ireland Is placed at this =toast.
The only differential duty which 'emanate existence be-
tween Ireland and Great Britain is the duty on spirits. I
am sure then that my Irish friends who ars always for jus-
tice to Ireland—(lesighter)—and who deans that phrase to
mean complete Identity of imatitslicent, rights, and dna*
wide the met of the United libligeorn, cannot on random
consider the difference which it caused between the two
counhiss by this duty but will hangs of Indignant bumf-
Baths. Hear, hear," and laughter.) I remember once
*Mg at Bristol, and &Wags ship which, having arrived from
Inland, was boarded by mnesrous cnatom-me offices,
and the crew ware tweeted just as if they were a
parcel of foreigami—all because it was
stotifm:asaletedin.ifldlanth;lasyhmaolrdria4gainnaryalarlosPnbitse"dashousuyll44."7does thishatetansecealptlided? position
(6.7ihriast"ilian:rl:
laughter.) How much hatter it would be to have the com-
mend of the English merlus, and not only that, but of
Great Britain also, and this be enabled to compete with
English and Scotch spirits; and indeed of haring a me-
tricted commerce, be able to export dash admirable invention,
which I understand the French prefer to heady, and to pear
it over the world, thus giving a great stimulus to the
trade of their country. I believe, therefore, that the peeps-
/Dion will be acceptable to the house, and that there will -not
be based from any of my Irish friends • single murmur with
regard to it. (" Hear hear " and laughter.) But if there
is a murmur, I ask them to the zooid ow,l spirit—fame
hughtar)—to consider first the patties of the Chsnoelfor of
thisExthequer, and next with what pride and satisfaction
they will be able to return to their nati•e country, and to
.
tell their constinsethe est when the income tax with whisk
they were visited, not by me—(hear, hear)—but white
somehow or other got fastened round their mocks, has berm
nearly shaken off and that that real badge of the yoke has
been nearly got rid of that a fatal blow hes been given to it,
and that they will find in that cheerftd circumstance ample -
compensation for any annoyance they may receive by the
proposed alteration of duty. (Laughter.) I hope by the
equalisation of duty to give to the Exchequer 600,0001.,
which is the amount of deficit which remains. (Hear.)
I am much obliged to the house for bearing with this state-
ment, which the house will remember is one of no ordinary
description, for I have been obliged by analogy to deal with
a great deficit. If the course I recommend is sanctioned by
the committee, that deficit will have disappeared. (Hear.)
We shall have put an sod to the war sinking fund, or post-
posed it to a happier time, when It shall be paid out of
MOWN j we shall have dealt with the Exchequer bonds which
are caning due, andwhieh present an obstacle to our nomads&
system being put into order, sad by equalising the duties on
spirits we shall have entirely terminated the deficit. I think
however, that we should also do something for the revenue
in the shape of surplus. (Hear.) I shall not press much on
the resources of the country or traipse, much on the
patience of the house in this respect, became the state of the
balances in the Exchequer I. very satisfectory, and a large
and unusual amount will be added to them this year. N,
move ; if I had chosen to avail myself of it, &stun of 400,0061.
might fairly have been brought into the revenue of this year.
But I thought it beet not to attempt to bolster up the
finances, and I prefer that the case should be understated
rather than overstated. But I may say that the Bast
India Company, which is indebted to the state 1,600,0001.,
has already repaid 1,100.0001. of that sum this year,
and there still remains 400,0001. to be paid which I might
fairly have put into the budget, but It will be certainly paid
into the Exchequer. There is also a repayment of advances
which cannot be less than 600,0001. There are moneys to
be paid on account of the sinking fond and interest on the
Sardinian loan, so that a large sum will be paid into the ba-
lances in the Exchequer, which at the end of last year were
in a very satisfactory state. So that having shown this Mate
of the Lehman to the hones, and asking the house to
remember that in m estimate of the revenue I
have scrupulously retrained from taking any other
than the moat narrow view of the resources at
my command, and that if I bad chosen to say more I might
have exhibited more cheerful figures looking to these cir-
cumstances, I might have thought it not necessary to trouble
the committee with regard to a surplus. But I think that a
surplus ought to be provided even though it be a small one ,•
a small one under the circumstances of our finances will
suffice. Ne taxation is more popular, so far u I have been
able to gather from conversation with those who may be sup-
pored to understand the subject, than an addition to the
stamp duties ; it is of taxwhich on the whole causes
leas annoyance than any other, and is rather popular than
otherwise. (" Hear, hew' and laughter.) The peony
postage has created a desire to see great results achieved
by smell means, and therefore I propose that whomever we
draw a cheque it should have a stamp upon It. (Cheers and
murmurs.) Now
by one who ou such a sub-
sasher, that I may count the sum to be derived from this
ameaulthaorim toured
and into the
samom Thal nay
b.
00.60.. e
made to this proposition, but every men who demo a cheque
must remember that he pays a 6d. instead of a 7d. Income-
tax, with a prospect of its rotors extinction ; and that in re-
turn some sacrifice must be made, and I hope the com-
mittee will epee with me that this is a mode of
taxation to which there should be no objection • and consi-
dering the position of the Exchequer at this moment, I am
not prepared to ask the house to impose any othre tax.
(Hear, hear.) I would ask the house to remember that I
have to consider what will be the position of the country with
regard to its finances in the year following this ; for any one
occupying the position I have the honour to hold would
greatly fail in his duty if he did not exhibit some foresight
and bestow some consideration upon the Maumee which his
propositions would have on our future prospects. If what I
have proposed shall be agreed to, let us see what is the pros-
peat of the following year. You will have the income tax
suffering from a diminution of one million, and a deficiency
in the revenue to the tame amount, end you will have two
millions of Exchequer bonds. You will have that two mil-
lions reduced by the amount of the surplus of the year, but
we will say that in all you have three millions to supply. I
pat it to the hones whether that is a prospect which ought to
alarm us. (Hear, hear.) Can we doubt that owing to our
commercial prosperity, we shall obtain a revenue with which,
Sided by wise and well-considered retrenchments, we shall be
able to meet our engagements, to pay off the Exchequer
bonds, and overcome the difficulty muted by the diminution
of the income tax. If you are able to do this, in what posi-
tion will you dud yourselves in that famous year of 1860,
which has been made the pivot of modern finance ?
In that year you will have to pay one million of Exchequer
bonds, bat; in that same year the cessation of 2,160,0001. of
annuities will come into play, and I believe that you will be
able in the spirit, if not in the letter, to accomplish the plan
of the right hon. gentleman the member for the University
of Oxford. In order to do that—in order that nosegay act fairly
by the people of this country—and in order that the wise
arrangement of the right hon. gentleman may be effected,
and that great policy accomplished, I shall propose not to
encumber the year 1880 or 1861 with the payment of the
Exchequer bonds we must inset, but that 4 1882 and 1863
a payment of one million shall be apportioned to
each of those years, If that is done, I have no
doubt that the policy of 1843 will be carried out.
I hops, when the committee recollect the expenditure of the
conntry—when they know that at the end of the year, end
indeed so late es whenl mourned office, the estimatid de-
ficiessey wee not lees than 8,600,0001., I hope the committee
will, on the whole, not be dissatisfied— (cheers)—when they
see that by some judicious retrenchnisota, by propositions
which I cannot doubt are mound in principle and judicious in
appliestion, the immense deficit which has depressed the
one gy of the country has been dissipated, and that, too, with
a remission of taxation with respect to a particular impost
most odious to the people, snd in a meaner which guarantees,
I trust, the entire accomplishment of the policy of the right
hon. gentleman the member for the University of Oxford.
(Hear, hear.) I would hope that these propositions will be re-
ceived, not only with candid consideration, but that after
due discussion they may even meet with the cordial
acceptance of the committee. The right hon. gentleman coa-
eluded amidst considerable cheering, by moving resolutions
in soxedance with the view he had enunciated.

Mr. GROGAN eulogised the plan of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, but found fault with the increase of the
duty upon Irish spirits as leading to illicit distillation.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY did not see that any provision
was made for the expenses of the Chinese war. The Chan-
cellor of this Exchequer bed done well In not interfering with
the Income tax.
Mr. DEASY hoped that the proposal respecting the In-
creased duty cm Isiah spirits might be postponed, to give
done for its coneideration.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that some form of sinking fund
ought to be misfiled ; otherwise there would be no prospect
of the extinction of the debt. He should. however, reeterve
his opinion till the bill wee before them. The postponement
of the Exchequer Bonds was impossible. They must be
paid. The Chancellor of the Exchequer must preppie a vote
In supply to meet this payment, which would only be
areating a loan fora limited period.
Mr. PAGAN thought that woe little would be gained
Asa the proposed equelisation of the spirit dutiee.
Mr. WHITESIDE did not believe that illicit distillation
would be cocooned by the increased duty on spirits.
Mr. WILSON said that the spirit duty in Ireland had
been exceptionally high, and therefore the Chancellor of the
Exchequer must not count upon the sum he had suticipated
from this quarter. The stamp upon cheques would greedy
interfere with the proper economy of capital.
Mr. WARRE likewise objected to the stamp upon
cheques more than usual let year from exceptional causes.
He disapproved of the stamp on cheques, ai throwing hin-
dramas- In the way of business and preventing the d"
etymon of capital.
Mr. 11'MASON hoped that the resolution respecting
Irish spirits vela be retread.
Mr. MALIN!, of the postponement of the
Exchequer Bends and the sinking toad to a more fitting
time, and of the edbereeee of the government to the paella-
men
Mtary amerigements.
r. DODSON put to a ado for the reduction of the hop
duties.
Yr. MACARTNEY aid that the country would be