The Express.
London, England, 1860-08-15 00:00:00

(Stamped, ld. Additional.

TELEGRAPHIC OOMMUNICATION WITH INDIA.

Loed~WODEHOU~L in reply to Lora itrZiof
Alderley, explained the present state of our tel
communications with India, and the iwomiwea which were
on foot to improve it.
Their lordsps adjourned at ten minutes past 7 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONB.—Tuseprr, Amore? 14.
(Continued from yesterday's Express.)
SUPPLY.

The house having resolved itself into a committee of
stIPPly,
Oa the motion of Mr. LAING, a resolution sou speed to
panting to her Mitjerdy a sum not exceeding 1,000,0001. to
pay off and discharge Exchequer bonds.
The committee then resumed the discussion of the civil
service estimate, which occupied the remainder of the
eitite evening,
The Comeolidated Fund (10,000,0001.) Bill sou read a
third time sad passed.
RAGGED SCHOOLS.

On the motion for going into committee of supply on the
education estimates,
Mr J. PAKINGTON rose to move—" That the grants
aanually made by parliament for the promotion of educa-
tion ought to be expended with fair and just regard to the
requirsmenta of the different dimes of schools recognised by
the minute, of the oonirnittes of crameil, and that ragged
and industrial schools, which are alone adapted to meet
the wants of a considerable number of destitute and
Peg]. acted chlklree, are therefore entitled to a larger amount
MEM& One Missy at present missive." Although he smerved,
to himself the right of taking the seam of the house on the
motion if be thought it desirable to do so, his object rather
wee to make an earnest appeal to the government for •
moditimtion of the rules under which grants were given to
lugged schools, which in his opinion did not receive that
essistance to which they were fairly entitled.
Mr. BLACK said he should most cordially second the re-
solution. He considered it was the duty of the government
to see that the large fund provided by the nation was laid
out to the best advantage. The general rule of
the council appeared to be that grants should only
be mad* to those schools at which ware educated
children of persons who supported themselves by manual
labour. But there was a large clam far below that defi-
nition, who, but for some kind hand being held out to save
them, must still remain steeped in indifference, degrada-
tion, and crime. (Hear, hear.) There were numbers of
children who had neither father nor mother to attend to
them ; or, what was worse, they had profligate and unna-
tural pan:iota, who spent the whole of their earnings in
vicious pursuits. Were not those poor children entitled
to some crumbs from the sumptuous table whereon
that large public grant was spread! U they were nut
attended to in some way the community must soon
suffer the consequences in finding spread around them
mime, disease, contamination, and death. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ADDERLEY, while admitting that the primary
object of the education grant was to afford instruction to
children whose parents were unable to educate them, con-
tended that the limits within which the grant was now
administered to ragged and industrial schools was a proper
one, and necessary to prevent abuse.
Mr. BRISCOE supported the resolution.
Mr. A. MILLS said if these schools were shut up
'She burden which was now borne by private benevolence
would be thrown entirely upon the state.
Mr. CAVE observed that the reason why the promoters
of these schools did nut certify under the industrial School
Act was, that thereby they became liable to have children
guilty of some crime sent there by the magistrates, which
gave the schools • penal character. The management of
such certificated schools ought to be transferred to the
Home-office.

Mr. HENLEY observed that the great question was,
whether the penal element could be separated from the
industrial schools. Tue present system, it was admitted,
did not reach those classes for whom it was intended, and
the object of those who desired its alteration was a very
wide one, and went to the root of the educatiostem
of the country. He could' not support a general
position, such ss that involved in the resolution, era
professed to enlarge the present ystem so as to' fill up
the great existing gap, unless shinier guanintees of
management were given as those which now existed
in schools of a higher class, under the menegement of
the Privy Council. Care should be especially Wien lest •
purely secular education was given to those who mere pecu-
liarly required religious teaching. The right hoe. member
then entered into • copious citation of details, showing the
inequalities of the present system, as applied to differeut
counties in England, and exhibiting the iosufficiencies, the
anomalies, and, in certain came, the unpopularity of the
state provision for national education under the existing
11011.
°V.MSLWE explained the measures that had been
adopted towards extending the benefits of the educational
grant, and coetended that no sect or denomination were
practically excluded from the privileges which parliament
tad intended to confer under the control of the committee
of the Privy Council. No limitations should,lie maintained,
be allowed to restrict the range of the educational &dean.
tar* which the legisla:ure intended to confer by its liberal
grade of public money.
On h division the amendment was negatived by a ma-
jority g 41 to !25-111.
The lease then went into committee of supply.

On the vote of 798,167/. tor educational purposes in
Great Britain,
Yr. LOWE said that during the first year the number of
schools inspected by impactors was increased by 171 ; the
number of children was increased by 58,357 ; the number of
pupil teachers by 1,200 ; certifhated students by 1190 •
students in training by 85 ; children upon whom capitation
grants were paid, by 62,189. No less than 247 new :school- '
houses were bails, with 178 dwellings for teachers,
and there were 7.30 other schools enlarged and
accommodation created for 68,000 children. The
number of children found by the inspectors to he in
the course of education in the schools during the present
year wail 880,131, being rathet more than 58,000 more than
the number last year, which was 821,744. The estimate for
the present year was 796,167/. ; that for last year was
836,9201. ' • so that it would appear as if it there were a dimi-
nution in this year's estimate, as compared with that of last
year, of 38,7831. He was sorry to say, however, that this
appearance was not real, for the estimate for last year was
made up by adding to the sum really voted, namely,
761,5344, an accumulation derived front former years of
75,3861. Consequently the estimate for the present year
was actually an increase of about 36,000/. over that of last
year. He could, however, 'enure the committee that every
(eon had been made to administer this vote with economy,
and he hoped what he was about to state would afford
proof of this. Of the 761,000/. voted last year, the expeu-
diture up to January was only 723,000/., so that the ontlay
fell short by some 40,0001. of the estimate. No
doubt • great deal more remained to be done,
and more would have been done, only that
the committee felt themselves restmioed by the sitting of
the royal commission from entering further into the
question. (Hear, hear.) He hoped the report of the corn-
minion would appear in the course of the year. There
were, however, one or two remarks which be would wish to
make on the subject of esonomy. With regard to these
schools, he believed in many respects that Morality was
the truest economy. The number of schools in too many
hiatuses was unneomsarily multiplied. If, fur instance,
there woe • parish requiring education for 100 children, and
if one denomination asked for a school for 100 children,
then if that school were founded upon liberal and consistent
principles, the Privy Council knew that, until an
objection was raised, that school was adequate for
the parish. But if the school were founded
upon exclusive principles, and fifty. parishioners came for-
ward and said that their conscientious principles were
violated by the exclusive teaching, and another school were
established, there appeared to be en unnecessary expense.
It was doubtless a public benefit to make two blades of
grass grow where there was only one before, but the prin.
ciple did not apply to the foundation of two schools in the
same parish. (Hear, hear.) It was also to be remarked
that in some cases instead of improving, the country was
retrograding. The deeds under which schools were founded
were more exclusive than formerly, arising, he be-
lieved, from the circumstance that since public
attention was more drawn to these matters, people looked
much more narrowly than they did before to the boundaries
of their denominations. There was a reduction also in the
number of the British and Foreign Society's Schools, which
were open to all denominations, excepting. be believed,
Roman catholics. They were generally being replaced by
denominational schools. It could well be otherwum • the
object of the grant wasto educate the people generally ;
instruction was to be based on the principle of denomina-
tion ; but the system had reacted upon its own
agency, in consequence of persons looking to the
denominational system more closely than they did
before. There was another principle of economy which had
been adopted. It was that of • strict appropriation of the
L-ranta. The department at present was overwhelmed with
labour. They occupied rooms in Great George-street and
the official residence of the prime minister, and they were
obliged in making advances of money to assign the condi-
tions upon which the moneys were to be employed. This
involved a vast amount of correspondence and an expense in
the transmission of post-oftice orders. It was found im-
possible to administer the grant under any other system
than that of inquiring the place where, the peewee to whom,
and the object for which, the application in each case was
made. He would also mention that they had done what
they could to facilitate matters by preparing a
code of rules. This was a work of very peat
difficulty. He (Mr. Lowe) himself had attended
to it, but the greatest credit in its preparation
was due to these gentlemen who were at the head of the
department. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the building
grant, they had also media reduction of three-eighths.
'Where before they paid four shillings they now only paid
two shaliags sad sixpence ; and where before they hid ad •
vowed 1001. for school houses they now only paid 65/. It
was due to the public to say they had submitted to this