The Express.
London, England, 1860-04-27 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 27, 1860.

tlunugliout the country, and he directed a circular to be
sent to the auditors to know if that coneeponded with their
experience, and their replies generally were to the effect
that it did an. With regard to the other question which
the Lim. gentleman asked him, as to what was the differ-
ence between gran estimated rental and net annual value.
he believed puma estimated rental to be pretty much what
the auditira had represented it to he, the net annual value
being rlast remained after the deductions bed been made
of the charges which feU on the landlord. The set
annual value and the rateable value were in
Net nearly identical. The landlord had certain
charges which everybody knew were incident to °mien of
property. He had to pay the expenses of insurance and
repairs, and these deductions having been made the over-
seer arrived at the rateable value. That he believed to be
the distinctice which had bees recognised by the courts
of law so late as May, 1839, and had been supported by the
opinion of the law officers of the crown.
THE PROTECTION OP BRITISH PERSONS AND

PROPERTY IN NAPIiiiTNI.;
Mr. H. B. SHERIDAN asked the Secretary for Foreign
Affairs whether he had heard that complaint' had been
nude of the insufficient protection afforded to British
subjects in the kingdoms of Naples, and in the immediate
neighbourhood of the dinturbenoes in Sicily, by the English
representative and British men-o[-war on the station. and
whether there was any truth in these complaints ; and if he
would state which of her Majesty's vessels were on the
station, and whether the in oiMuctiom had been to give
maistencis to all persons rightly claiming the protection of
the Euglish Reg. Aod whether, to hie knowledge, it was
true thst Austrian troops had been employed to aid in the
suppreeion of the efforts of the Sicilian population to
obtain a better form of government.
Lord J RUSSELL mud, no complaints had reached the
Fone,ei office of insufficient protection afforded to British
subjects in the kingdom of Naples and in the immediate
neighbourhood of the disturbances in Sicily. With regard
to the secoivi part of the question as to which of her Ma.
joity'a ve.e.lx were on the station, he had to inform him
that the Or was at Paters^ the Argus at Messina, and
the Ceeir had been despatched to Naples for the protection
of British pel ns and property. The hoar. gentleman further
asked tee whether instructions bad been given to give as-
sistance to all permits rightly claiming the protection of the
English Hag He had to inform him that her
Majesty's government had forwarded instructions to
the C.llllllloiier. bo it. rlO,ll/.•
SO well as the property of British subjects. In reference
to the lest question, if it was true that Austrian troops had
bow employed to aid in the suppreasiou of the efforts of
the Sicilian population to obtain a better form of govern-
ment, the government bed no information as to Austrian
troops hay* been so employed, and he thought it highly
maprobahle.
THE REFORM BILL. —ADJOURNED DEBATE.
The adjourned debate on the Reform Bill was resumed by
Mr. BLACK, who, while approving of the reduction of
the franchise to 10f. in counties, expremed more than a
doubt of the advimlility or advantage of extending the
borough franchise generally to 61., contending that there
hod bees too much flattering of the working clams as a clew
Ha pointed out the tendency of that clam, in their com-
parative ignorance, to become the subject of delu-
sions, which led them into combinations and strikes.
He believed that such • of halfeslucated
rTwould only tend to lower the character of
ranchise. There was not much agitation for
the bill ; hut those who were in favour of manhood suffrage
bid their followers to be content with it, because it was a
set ip in the right direction. (Hear, hear.) They said it was
an instalment, and they were quite right. It was an held-
meet, and a guarantee that they would one day be paid in
fall (o !been.) 'rimy were proposing to go down the slide
fee • certain dahlias*. bat they could-not doped that point.
They might go does by steps, but down they must go.
(Lou-! cheers.) It was bat • shove, but it would carry them
to the bottom —it would take them to manhood, or even to
naivetes', suffrage. (Olisen.) But if the house thought
that that would en improvement on our representative
system, why did they not adopt it at once? Why did they
not take that course and save all those aeration); which
must ensue' (Hear.) Lord Macaulay had been frequently
referred to in the eoune of this debate. He lifr. Black)
knew what Lord Macaulay 's opinions on this subject were ;
and be vmuld read to the house a letter which the noble
lard had written to a gentleman in New York, and which
had recently been published. [Mr. Black accordingly read
the document, which haa appeared in this journal, and in
which Lord Macaulay expresses an opinion that institutions
of a purely democratic character must sootier or later be de-
structive of liberty. j But they were told that this was to
be a settlement of the question. A settlement! Why, the
act of 13;.r2 was to hoes bolo •An settlement but it had
not lasted thirty years. In his opinion twenty years would
not pass over before they would be asked to reduce the
franchise to 3/. or 41. (Hear, hear.) But it was said that
the same suprehensions that were now expreesed WWI SW.
tertained by certain &deity gentlemen in Mt He (Mr.
Black) was one of the most ardent supporters of the first
Reform Bill, but the difference between that measure and
this was extreme. The electors who were enfranchised in
lPtt2 included all classes. They included the most highly
edinsted, the most opulent, and the most influential. They
included also the her her middle dames, and no incousi-
derable portion of the lower classes. This bill
would only bring in one class ; but it wee a
large clam, and there was some danger of its overweighting
the machine. (Cheers I If it was considered ilmiiahle
that • certain portiou of the working classe. should be ad-
mitted, there were ways of doing if without diluting the
aggregate electoral body. They might, for instance, give
up a certain number of homeghs, and might establish there
manhood suffrage, or any suffrage they pleased. (" Hear,
hear," and laughter.) But let them not forget that
Providence had placed various ranks in a satiety of situa-
tions ; and that all were Whence' by the circum.stencce
under which they stood. He considered the ranks of so-
ciety as an ordinance of the Creator; and he endeavoured
to look at them as they redly were—impartially, but with
discriminatiou. It was very painful to her to differ from
statesmen for whom he had the highest respect and
when, he held iu the L'..glicst honour as men through whose
invaluable se-seces the country had enjoyed much prove.
rity. But he end t not, on account of mere affection,
permit himself even to appeir to acquiesce in that of which
he did not approve ; nor could he allow it to he affirmed of
him that he said ese thing to his einetiteeets and another
to the House of Commune (Cheers.)
When the boo, gentleman resumed his seat a great
weather of member rose simultaneously, but the SPEAKER
celled on

Sir E. B. !Arrow, who questioned the accuracy of the
return' on which the bill was founded. Thom were few
workmen in the coinky towns who did not pay a weekly
SUM for their Muses which rtmountel to 6/. a year. Even
posing the returns to be correct, the elms .4 persons the
would admit would seriously impair the character of
the constituency. The consequence would he a general
system of corruption, for the poor elector would be utterly
unable to withstand temptation. He amused the house by
taking • aiippositioua voter with • debt hanging over
him of three pounds, and delineating the phases
through elm .:h would pass until he sac.
combed. He admitted that • much larger redistribution
of meta was neceaory, but to make the sew and larger
constituencies coiis:it of the poorer classes of the
community would be fraught with in6i,ite danger to
the polilii service. It 1r33 said that modern progress
demanded an extension of the suffrage, that we were to
have a (U. franchise becao.te we had steamer, and rail.
roods. For himself, be could not see the sequence.
Modena progress was dos to science and learning; was
that • roma for admitting to power the male trued and
unaciestilc• Adverting to historical argument., he said
that the fall of the great republics of antiquity ws due to
extensioru of the sulfrage, snit yet in those days the
:tumbler classes had greater facilities of political educa-
tion than they had at present. lie was Lotions
if • fresh constitution warn to be finnied, that
it sho i•I ha one which would last at least
as Wig as the constitution of 18.31 ; but this could
°Mr be ibis, l.v a substantial and comprehenelve measure,
not 17 which left the chances of corruption greater
than it foal, I them, amt the settlinneet of the Tiestimi as
far oat .ili ca cr. If they were to have an election in Decent.
her under this bill. the chief cry would be for a new reform
hill. F.veu Mr. Bright had told his bearers confidentially
that the passing .1 this measure would strengthen the
hands of I.loi niers to demand • better. Thi, was his
argument for a bill which settled nothing and pleased
nobody. The time b which the bill was brought for.
ward was as (hide to objection as the
The noble lord who was both the author of this bill and the
Minister of Foreign Affairs had not only acknowledged,
bet enforced that differents in speeches and in diplomatic
eeirreepondenos, which he (86r E. B. Lytton) said frankly
seemed to him equally honour:able to the noble lord himself,
and faithful to the sentiments of the country —(ebeer.)—
and he trusted that gentlemen near him would pardon
even if they did not sympathies with him, if be said with
mord to that chief under whom be once served a • private
moldier, that he rejoiced that on that question at Lust be
could 7ually defend Lis country's honour and his tenown.
(Cheers. It W 1.4 said that in the war coninienc. by
Frame or the independence of Italy then. we 110th i (IT that
threatened England. Coald this be said of the peace that
bedlam concluded by France for the enlargement of her
boundaries ? When a neighbouring 01p:title power de:lared
that she wiankl riot use her arms fur any selfish purpose,
they had no right to disbelieve her. Now, however, they
saw both the power and the use which was made of it,
and wrote had shown bow • neighbour could my oue thing
and mesa another. They now knew the chiral er
and condition of the French empire. They knew that the
peace of Europe and the security of Wood bung upon the
nod of • single whose thoughts none of them could
penetrate, whose anibitkie none of them could maosure, and
hithep. stroke of whose pen the existing geography, of
n could he chewed as rapidly's@ in his owndonnunms
•• republic like that of America was changed into • sove-
reignty as lamer al as that of the Roman Comm. re-
sembling their, inasmuch as it preserved the farms while it
dentroyeil the substance of h ity ; more formirhihle to
its neighbours than the ancient neinsrehies that surrounded
it, because it was as little bound by their scruples as it
wag by their treaties. (Hear, hear.) It hid the young
Mood of VI , revolution from which it sprang ; it inherited
the force and the license of the multitude, who deemed
theenselva, crowned bits coronation. Thus it combined in
• terrible ondusion the arts and necessities of
demagogue with the erns and obect,. of • military
Soda • unon was rate; it Lad never yet happened
in the history of the world ; bat ft had Ii placed
the latelnisrk, of it. neighbours' •comtries, and woe
to the stowwiiich it found unprepared to cope

with its twofold power over the multitude that it
dazzles and the arms that it wield*. The Emperor of the
French had those high attributes of genius which rendered
even his defects popular and majestic with the people Ise
governed. He had capacities for organisation not inferior
to those of his illustnous uncle, and he consolidated his
ambition and his intelligence by an inflexible singleness of
purpose, by a mixture of secrecy in design and promptitude
in action which gave the vigour of Richelieu and
the astuteness of Mesarin to the movements of 200,000
men. In all this there was nothing that should
not make them deplore the loss of the French
alliance ; nothing that should make them forfeit
their natured position as a commercial and insular people,
by seeking to place themselves at the head of great conti-
nental powers ; but it involved much that required unre-
lasing vigilance, as well as sound judgment on the part not
only of her Majesty's government, but also of the House
of Commons. (Hear, hear.) And therefore it did seem to
him a wanton imprudence to discard a legislative body
whose fidelity to the honour and interests of Eng
land had been proved and tested, which could
not be worn out, which was actually younger
than meet of the youngest members amonpt them, which
had spent the last :30 years in acquiring wisdom and qualify-
ing itself for the discharge of its arduous duties and to
construct another legislative body, altogether raw and un-
tried, to be chosen by the minimum of political experience,
in times that required the maximum of political know-
ledge. (Cheers.) The Chancellor of the Duchy asked
them (the opposition) tauntingly why they did not
divide, and then he answered his own question
by saying it was bemuse they knew there would be a ma•
jority against them. Let him ask the right hon. gentleman
—not tauntingly, but in sober earnest—whether, granting
what was mad, namely, that there would be a majority
for the bill, that majority did not include
members enough to turn the scale in their (the
opposition's) favour tf they all voted according to the
opinions they bad expressed in private ? (Loud opposition
cheers.) It was because they would not, if they could help
it, make that strict demarcation of parties which they did
not believe would indicate a real and genuine demarcation of
opinion--it was for that reason that they did not intend to
divide ; and he hoped it world not be thought presump-
tuous in him to add that he earnestly solicited the serious
reflection of those enlightened reformers who did not desire
merely for the sake of change. He knew there reso weme
ZirrEntlionni4 Um. ni.nn. •nprinn
the road to alter the springs of the carriage. (laughter.)
He knew LIMITS were some who believed that man was made
for nothing better than to pass his whole existence in the
ecstatic contemplation of interminable reform bills; but they
might flatter themselves that these amiable enthusiasts
were rather to be found out of doors than among them to
whom education and some knowledge of life had given the
ordinary attributes of common sense. They could not die-
ruse from themselves that it was a critical moment in the
history of their country ; they felt this more than they said
they did, and they would rather summon for their guidance
the highest widow and the greatest exCince they could
obtain than inertly such wisdom as poissessed, and
such experience as they had acquired, in arbitration of
men who bad never yet been called upon to exercise a
judgment on questions so grave and complicated, but from
whom, if they were once appointed, there could never be
an appeal. (Hear, hear.) He did not say that the state of
the nuances and the state of affairs abroad were reasons for
not dealing with this question which the government could
put forward ; but he did say that they were reasons which
their own supporters might privately urge upon them,
and reason,. which • t justify them before the
public if the bill were withdrawn on the obvious and un-
answerable ground that they found it not to be a measure
that would give general satisfaction. (Cheers.) A reform
bill, so easy to the theorist, was a very raMcult measure to
the practical statesman : the true artist naturally faltered
in applying the hammer and the chisel to his country's
laws. If they were to be told that the bill, whether good
or bad, wee a bill, and must therefore proceed • if
they were to be told that what they (the opposition)
considered its defects were in fact its advantages, and if the
government intended to avail themselves of the natural
reluctance of the members from boroughs to declare against
those new constituencies, to whom next December they
might be compelled to appeal ;. if that were the course the
Queen's advisers deemed it their duty to take, he could only
express his fervent wish that the result might justify a
reversal of all the rules which in similar times led the
statesmen, whether of republics or of monarchies, rather
to strengthen the hand.' of the lftultiture than transfer to
the wide circle of an unaccustomed multitude the nice and
delicate arrangements of the national finances and the
cautious consideration of slanging which would alarm the
boldest statesmen and menace the strongest thrones. (Loud
cheers.)
Mr. MARSH stated at once that he could not suppcst
the bill in its present shape, unless at least the 6!. franchise
was altered to an N. holding.

Sir J. FERGUI3:3O2.; was speaking against the bill, when
an attempt was made to count the house out, which was
very nearly successful, owing to the o'ustruction offered to
the entrance of members ; but with some difficulty the re-
quisite number was obtained to keep the house.

Mr. DENMAN declared that the increased intelligence
of the working chases made them worthy the confidence
reposed in them by the bill, which, during the present calm
temper of the public, was especially well timed. The ob-
jections to the risk of the 61. franchise were founded on the
marast assoraptinn He denial that the clam so nAmitted
would be either homogeneous or dangerous. He believed
that it would be well for the country if the working classes
sent men from their own body to represent their interests
in that house. He exprastal his warm approval of the
lodger franchise, which he defended in considerable detaiL
Sir J. WALSH congratulated the ministry on having at
last found • supporter. The arguments of the honourable
member, however, would not establish the accuracy of the
returns on which the bill was founded. If what was stated
was true, this was a most revolutionary measure, instead of
the quiet inoffensive proposal which they ware called upon
to pass in thew especially quiet times. The bill, in fact,
was • household suffrage bill, under another name.

Lord J. RUSSELL acid that similar objections had been '
urged against the old Reform Bill to those made to the
present measure, yet that hill had incalculably
strengthened the institutions of the country, and heralded
those measures of progress and improvement to which it
owed so much of its actual greetness. He objected to the
enemies of the bill that their assumptions rested upon no
foundation. They had decimal, one after the other, that
the bill admitted to the franchise the poorest chimes of the
community, and had drawn the newt terrible con-
sequences from such a proceeding. But nut one of them
attempted to prove the facts from which they deduced so
formidable an assertion. All the restrictions which now
existed were coetinueil by the bill, and yet no deductions
had been made on that account from the 6/. franchise,
while the deductions had uniformly been made from
the higher franchise. But, on the contrary, there would
be larger deductions from the lower class of voters on '
amount of nonpayment of rates and similar diaqualifications.
He teamed the various propositions made during the framing
of the Rdorm Bill, stating that it had been serio;sly con-
templated to propose a lower franchise than
WI. NBC* that time the progress of education
had made a larger class of the population fit
for the franchise. The noble lord continued—l have heard
much, awl indeed the greater pert of this debate on the
other side of the house has been conducted on the principle
that no extension of the franchise should be allowed to
reach the working classes. (Loud cnee of "No, no" from
the opposition. benches.) I think the rep esientation gene-
rally has been—" The working classes are entitled to all
our respect, but they are very poor. The working classes
are • class whose good qualities excite our esteem, but they
are very ignorant. The working chasm deserve all our care
and all our affection, bat they are very corrupt, and there-
fore should not be entrusted with the franchise." (Cheers
and cries of "No, no.") Hon. gentlemen opposite my
"no," but I have really heard one speech after
another, and, to my surprise, that of the right hoe. mem-
ber for Bucks, which followed the speech of the rtht hon.
gentleman the member for the University of Dublin, and
many other speeches, which have all gone to the same point.
They have eone of them said that the working classes have
a very great share of the 10!. franchise ; they could not
well say that. They_ have it indec,l in some places, but in
very few. They did not propose an Ml. or • Ti. franchise,
but they all objected to this particular franchise, which
does include a great number of the workingelasses. There-
fore, I say— for I can come to no other conclusion, and it is
• very serious conclusion to come to—that a spirit of dis-
trust of the working classes, as holding any portion of pn.
litical power, has animated the speeches of hon. 'peda-
-1 men. (Cries of "No no," from the opposition.) Hon.
I gentlemen say that it ham not, but what is their prup?sal for
the admission of the working classes. A suggcstioa has
been thrown out that there might be some cities of r,fuge
in which the working classes might he allowed to have
members, if they are very few. My hon. friend the mem-
ber for Edinburgh said something of that kind, lint Iw did
not tell us whether Edinburgh was to be ouc of those places.
It behoves hon. gentlemen opposite to reconsider their
speeches if that was not their meaning. The whole im-
pression I have derived from those speeches is that we
ought not to trust the franchise to the working
classes, and that they ought not generally to
be admitted to that privilege. (Cries of `No,
no.") Now, let us look for • moment to what the
right hoe. gentleman the member for Bucks said upon this
question last veer. After raying that the bill they hail
proposed would admit 500,000 people to the franchise, the
right hon. gentleman proceeded to say—" The question of
the borough franchise must Le dealt with, and it
must be dealt with in reference to the introduction
of the working classes. We admit that that has
been the opinion of parliament, and that the
opinion of the country has been shows by the
hon. gentlemen who have been returned. We cannot lie
blind to the result. We do cot with to be blind to it. We
have no prejudice against the proposition. All we want is
to same ourselves that any mestere we bring forward is
required by the public necessity, and would hare the sanc-
tion of public support. Therefore we are prepared to deal
with that question, namely, the introduction of the work-
; in-5 classes by lowering the franchise in boroughs, because,
as I had ventured to observe in the debate on our r.iessitre,
if you intend to admit the working claws to the franchise
by lowering the suffrage in boroughs, you must not • keep
the promise to the ear and break it to the hope.'
I must my that the right hon. gentleman went on to argue
most fairly upon the subject. He said, "You niight con-
trive a franchise such as would appear to allow of a greet
adniimion of the working classes, but, in effect, it would
rather restrict the franchise than extend it." He added,
" If you want to deal with the question you must deal with

it fairly, and provide really for the admission of the working I
classes." But although that was his opinion last year—
and he spoke. having the confidence of Lord
Derby and of the Whole of the government he repre-
seneed as well as the coulideoce of the great party of which
he is the leader in this house—the right hon. gentleman
laid it down as a substantial proposition that in any reform
bill to be introduced there must be a reduction of the
borough franchise, and by the reduction of the borough
franchise be meant the admission of the working classes.
(Hear, hear.) Then I ask, how this is to be done? Let
them, if they do not approve of this 6/. franchise, frame
some provision by which the working classes will other-
wise come in. Some gentleman, indeed, said—what
I myself suggested in 1837—that the proof of frugality should
be taken by considering the deposit in the savings bank,
and that the depositor there has a claim to the suffrage,
but it has been shown to me that though that would admit
same the number would be so small that it could not
be said to be a substantial admission of the working classes.
But when the question was whether Mr. Huskisson was or '
was not a good representative of Liverpool, there was no
doubt upon the minds of the electors, who at once returned
him as a man of well-known eminent qualities who was
held in pneral esteem by the public. And if I say so, it is
in regard to the people in general. If you ask the
IW. or the 6/. householder, their opinions on some
difficult questions of political economy or constitutional
right they may possibly pronounce a strong judgment; but
' if the question be presented before them, whether they
were with a vote or without it, they shall select a man of
. well known probity and eminence, and generally speaking
they will make a judicious choice. I think the working
classes are apt to take things as they come, whether from a
philosophical or a Christian spirit ; but generally speaking
they are wonderfully contented with their lot. With
!lord to the allegation of the danger of extend-
ing the representation of the country to that class,
it may be mentioned that there are a great num-
ber of boroughs and counties sending members to this
house by no menus likely to be swept away or seriously
damaged by this flood of 6!. householders which is so much
apprehended. Looking at the boroughs as they stand at
present, it appears that boroughs having a population of
20,000, return 127 members. There are 111 such boroughs
returning 172 members. Now that makes the whole differ-
ence, because if I add these 172 to 159 who are now rated
to counties, it is evident there will still be a
Won %Vett can say i-n—res—pzt boroughs
there there will be any great change, or that property will be less
respected under the proposed bill than it is at present. I re-
member at the time of the first Reform Bill there was some
feeling in favour of reform—but no great deal, and when I
that Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds should
rviec:ilmbers, that proposal was rejected by • large ma-
jority. The house thought, and the government of the day
tionini...Lt, that they could set at defiance the claims of
places like these, and that they might remain with-
on members 20 or 30 years longer. But, after all, was it
domestic pressure that settled that question ? A foreign
event of moat importance occurred—a revolution in France—
that tended much to cause agitation on the subject of re-
form in this country, and tended to fan the flame until it
became dangerous. Who can tell if you put off this ques-
till next year, or the y.nir after, or until the census has
been taken, who can tall what will be the circumstances, in
which you may have to deal with it then? (" Oh, oh," and
laughter from the opposition.) The hon. gentlemen oppo-
site treat this with ridicule and contempt. I remember
in 1825 in this house—that was in very quiet times—using
a met' her that might not be very appropriate—but it ex-
what I meant, that if you would not let reform
L 77; with the majesty of a river it would come upon
you with the madness of the torrent. And that happened
when you had Bristol on fire and the Castle of Nottingham
in flames ; then men began to think the matter serious.
("Oh," and cheers.) History will tell you that, and no
one who reads history and reflects upon it will my that it
would not have been better if the reform question had been
settled five or ten years before—that it would have been better
that prudent measures should have been taken, the franchise
gradually extended, and reform accepted by general consent,
instead of being the object of such great hostility and
violent conflict. It is in the belief that you can now legis-
late safely that her Majesty's present government have in-
troduced this bill of reform. The right hon. gentlemen the
member for Bucks stated last year, as I have already shown,
that it would be right to admit the working classes, and
that you should not attempt to treat them with dissem-
blance—that you should not give the word of promise to
the ear and break it to the hope.
Mr. DISRAELI—You did not read the whole passage—
that was garbled. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—Did I not? I will read it again.
" The lowering of the franchise must be carried out in a
manner completely to effect your object, and at the same
time consistent with the maintaining of the in.
stitutions of the country." (Conservative cheers.)
Well, we say that our proposal for a lower suf-
frage satisfactorily and completely effects our object—
(cheers and laughter)—and in • manner that will maintain
the institutions of the country. (No, no.) That is our
opinion. The right hon. gentleman has another way
of maintaining the institutions of the reentry, but we are
se well entitled to say that we arc maintaining those institu-
tions as Lord Derby or the right hon. gentleman. (Hear,
hear.) We proposed the Reform Bill in 1831, and
Lord Grey adveed his Majesty to make a speech
from the throne, in which he declared that he
proposed a measure as to the House of Commons
which should respect and preserve the rights of every
member of the constitution. And was not that promise
kept? (Hear.) At an early part of my speech I showed
how well that pn ouise had been kept, and that the institu-
tions of the country were stronger now than they were then.
(" Hear,* and „oh.") Does the right hon. gentleman deny
that? If, then, we have kept our promise and maintained the
institutions of the country—then, 1 say, examine this hill,
examine it as much as you please, and if you find anything
dangerous in it, alter that part of it. My belief is that
it will tend, like the previous Reform Bill, to maintain the
institutions of the country; and this I think above all, that
if you find that there is a numerous class that has advanced
im intell*ence, which has advanced in ite well-being
and comfort, and which ia fit to exerciao the
elective franchise, it is an injury not so much
to them as it is injurious to yourselves and the
institutions of the country to keep them out. I remember
the plain and homely but expressive phrase tithe right
irli lion.
member for Oxfordshire (Mr. Henley) last year— •if you
draw a bread line, if you say you will have a 10/. franchise
and nothing below it,'" I think the ugly rush of which the
right hon. gentleman spoke may come upon us. I hope you
will strengthen the institutions of the country by enlarging
the franchise and admitting many who are capable of exer-
cising it advantageously to the public welfare, and thereby
secure the institutions of the country. (Cheers.)
Mr. BENTINCK mowed the adjournment of the debate.
The motion was at once agreed to, and the debate was
adjourned to Monday next.
The Paper Duties Repeal Bill and Sir John Barnard's
Act Repeal Bill were postponed till to-morrow (this day).

look of the matter, sent the said note to his son (a solicitor),
and the result of the inquiries ho made was that it was not
genuine.
Mr. Augustus Twyford, a solicitor, and Lieutenant
Anthony William Twyford, of the 3rd Bengal Cavalry (some
of the retired magistrate), proved that the signature pun
porting to be that of their father was a forgery.
Mr. Hammill (to prisoner)—Have you any question to
put to either of the witnceses, or anything to say to the
charge?
Prisoner—Nothing, sir.
Mr. Hammill—l have beard sufficient to satisfy me that
lam bonnd to remand you, but you will be brought up
again on Thursday next.

Mr. Richard Talbot, a man about 50 years of age, and
better known as Dr. Talbot, appeared to answer a sum-
mons taken out under the Medial Act, passed to "regu-
late the qualifications of practitioners in medicine and sur-
gery," and which charged him with having, on the 28th of
November last and on divers other days, wilfully and
falsely pretended to be and did take and use the names and
titles of physician and doctor of medicine, implying he was
registered under the Medical Act, by which he had incurred
a penalty of 251.
Mr. Charles Young, solicitor, of Arbour-square, Stepney,
whocooducted the prosecution for Mr. Gibbs, said he should
prove that four years ago the defendantwas a schoolmaster,
and that he subsequently became a preacher in the
Wesleyan Methodist connexion, and preached one sermon
only, and then finding the cure of bodies was better than
the cure of souls, gave up preaching, and practised as a sur-
geon and apothecary, without being qualified to do so.
After some interruptions from the defendant,
Mr. Young said he found in a prospectus issued by the
sot diaant Dr. Talbot, of 20, Upperjohn-street, Wv.tney-
' street, Commercial-road East, and headed, " Gone in •
moment, or Galvanism, by Dr. Talbot, of London," that
he advertised " Toothache cured in one moment by gal-
vanism alone, with a touch"—(laughter)—and that he pro.
posed to cure the rheumatism, tic dolomitic, toothache, and
other diseases, by galvanism ; and then followed nume-
rous testimonials, all in the regular quack doctor style.
The defendant was afterwards found in the St. Leonard's-
road, Bromley, and lastly, of Canton-house, corner of
Stainsby-road, East India-road, where he was now dwelling
and practising illegally.
Mr. aelfe said that General Council of Medical Educa-
tion and hagistration had been estainisted oo.toi cLc Medi-
cal Act, and it occurred to him that a society like that
ought to prosecute in • case of this description.
Mr. Young said the council received the fees for regis-
tration, and they amounted to a large sum, but would not
protect the qualified practitioners.
The defendant—The reason the council have not taken
the initiative I. that it has been applied to to prosecute
Mr. Giles.

Mr. Young—That is quite false.
Mr. William Giles said he was a member of the Royal
College of Surgeons in England since 1852, and a licentiate
of the Royal C,ollege of Physicians, Edinburgh, and was
residing at No. 1, 1...1nt0n-place, East India-road, Lime-
house. The defendant lived exactly oppimite to him, and
"Dr. Talbot" was painted in large letters over his door.
On the :Pith of November last be was sent for by a Mr.
West, of High.street, Poplar, to attend a member of his
family, and discovered that the patient had been attended
by the defendant, and that he (Mr. Giles) bad been sent for
by mistake. He told Mr. West he had better send for the
gentleman who had been attending to the case, and retired
from it. He then believed the defendant was a regularly
qualified medical practitioner. He had since ascertained
to the contrary. On the same evening the defendant
called upon him, sat down in his surgery, and thanked bins
for not displacing him on attendance upon Miss West, in
Poplar. The defendant also said he bad studied at Cam-
bridge, and was a master of arts and doctor of medicine,
that his practice was a large one, and that be had adver-
tised to sell it.
_ . _

Dr. Giles was croes-examined with some asperity, and
shrewdness by the defendant, who once gave him the lie
direct. Dr. Giles smiled, and appealed to the bench. The
witness admitted that in an interview with the defendant
be recommended him to put his name on his house to dis-
tinguish it, and prevent mistakes.
'rhe defendant said he should certainly prosecute Dr.
Giles for perjury. (Laughter.)
Mr. Young then put in a certified copy of the Medical
Register, in which Dr. Giles's qualifications, his address,
and other particulars were describa The defendant's name
and address was not inserted in the register.
Mrs. Emma Lovell, the wife of Captain Lovell, of Pay'.
ton-street, Poplar, said the defendant had attended her in
her accouchernent, and had also prescribed for her children.
She retained the services of the defendant, believing he was
a regularly qualified man. Her husband came home very
ill on the last day of October from the African coast, and
the defendant attended him. Her husband did not get any
better under the defendant's treatment, and she began to
have considerable doubts of his skill, and in the last week
of November said to him "Dr. Talbot, what
is this rumour abroad t I hear you have got no
diploma." The defendant said, " You want to
know too much." She was then in extreme trouble, and
said, " I beg your pardon, sir, if I have put a rude ques-
tion." The defendant said, "My practice is so very exten-
sive, the medical gentlemen around here are jealous of me."
He also said, " I have a foreign diploma, which is worth
three English diplomas • I am a doctor of medicine and •
physician." She afterwards discovered the ilefenditut was
not a qualified practitioner, and was not registered. She
would-never have employed the defendant if she had known
be was not a regular practitioner. He never allowed her to
think otherwise.

The defendant—l am sorry to ask you a few questions,
madam.

Mrs. Lovell—l hope you will confine yourself to the truth.
The defendant—You ladies have such long tongues.
Mrs. Lovell—Perhaps my tongue is too Vuthful for you.
The defendant—l very much admire the spirit of your
evidence. You recollect a letter you received?
Mrs. Lovell—Yee I do. Mind, you have not the simple
creature to deal with you think you have.
The defendant add he would not ask the witness any
more questions, and addressed the magistrate, or rather the
people in the court, at great length. He said the name of
Dr. Talbot was over his door, and that it should remain as
long as be lived. There was no power on earth could re-
move it. He was advised by a barrister, to whom he paid
• fee of twoguineas, that he hada right to the title of doctor,
and to place it over his dour. He had studied at the London
Hospital, and was now studying at Guy's. He was now an
articled pupil to a Mr. Davies, and transferred his business
to him. He never pretended to be a doctor of medicine.
He obtained the degree of D.C.L. from the University of
Hew, in Germany, after hard fagging in Latin, Hebrew,
Greek, and mathematics, and the composition of a prise
poem. He passed his examination before five of the moat
eminent men in Europe. He claimed the right to use the
title of doctor, and to put it over his door. He put in his
German diploma, and a deed transferring his practice to
Mr. Davis, of Bircham-house, tit. Leonards.road, Bromley.
.
He declared that Canton-honor was only his private rem.
dente, and near the Limehouse station of the Black.
wall 11.iilwsy, which gave hint very great facilities to pro-
ceed to Guy's and back daily. Ho concluded • long and
desultory harangue by saying that he was qualifying him-
self to become a physician and surgeon of the English col.
leges, and I few would do that at his time of life.
Dlr. Frederick Davies, a ineniber of the College of Surgeons
and licentiate of the Apothecaries' Company, duly regis-
tered, was called by the defendant, who put the question to
him—Am I not your apprentice (Laughter.)
Mr. Davis—Yes, you are, sir.
1 Mr. Selfe—Where is the indenture of apprenticeship
No answer was given to this question, and Mr. Selfe said
that according to the document put in there was a tran•fer
of the defendant's business to Mr. Davies, who was to allow
him half the profit+. They were in partnership—a qualified
and an unqualified practitioner. (Sensation.) If an =ale-
, gous cage had occurred in the legal profession—if an attorney
had allowed another person to practise in his name—he
would, on application to the Court of Queen's Bench, be
struck off the rolls. .
.

Mr. Devise was examined by the defendant on general
subjects, and cross-examined by Mr. Young. Be said the
name of Talbot was over his door in the St. Lemards-read,
Bromley, as well as his own. They were certainly in part-
nership. He declined to state the consideration money
given for the defendant's practice ; it had nothing to do with
this case. Mr. Young then pot in two bills for medical
attendance and medicine, and the witness admitted they
were in the defendant's handwriting. Another bill was put
in by Mr. Young, and the witness said lie had seat it to a
patient. It was made out in the names of Davits and Talbot
He was described in the Medical Rryi,ter as Frederick
Davies, of Tonning, Berks, where he formerly practised.
Mr. Young—Here is a bill with Dr. Talbot and Mr.
Davies's compliments.
Mr. Davies—That is the way we send out our bills. Dr.
Talbot did attend the Lorene I also attended Omni a great
many times. I have known the defendant only as Dr. Tel.
but. I always believed him to be Dr. Talbot, with a foreign
diploma, entitling him to be called a doctor.
By Mr. Selfo—The practice is mine. The defendant has
to account to me. I receive the money, and pay over to
the defendant a certain scam , according to the agreement.
Mr. Young—Now, let us know what you gave Talbot for
the practice!
Mr. Davies—l don'tknow that it is necessary to say what
I gave for it.
The Defendant—lt is a most impudent question.
Mr. Self* said there was no occasion far the solicitor to
trouble himself ; the agreement was before him. He did
not entertain the least doubt the defendant was entitled to
use the word "doctor," to have the wont painted over his
door, and to print it on his caul. No one could prevent
him (the defendant) using the title of doctor ; but when, in
addition to that, he gives advice as a medical practitioner,
dispenses medicine, sends in bills, tells his patients he
had • German diploma, which was worth three English
ones, gave them to understand that it your a medical
diploma, and that ho had • right to the title of a doctor of
medicine, be was clearly within the provisions of the
Medical Act, the 21st and 22nd of Victors, cap. 90. The
document put in—agreement between Talbot and Mr.
Davies—described the defendant ass medical practitioner.
He could not conceive a clearer cane than this, and he said
just now, and must repeat, that if an analog, existed be-
tween the legal and medical profession, Mr. Davies would
not be permitted to allow another to practise in his name.
He had no doubt the defendant practised a deception on
Mrs. Lovell, and by acts, by wools, and by the deed put in,
acted as a medical practitioner, without being quabfreil to
do so, and without being registered. He must sat this was
a most proper case for prosecution, and he cow-Acted the
defendant and fined him 101.