The Express.
London, England, 1860-05-23 00:00:00

THE PAPER DUTIES BILL.

Mr. DIOBY SEYMOUR thought that the question of
his hon. friend the member for Peterborough (Mr. Whalley)
had not received a proper answer. When the course taken
by the First Minister of the Crown went forth to the
country, it would go forth simply as a motion to
nominate a committee to search the journals of the
other house, and them to search for precedenta
Now the country would expect from the Treasury bench
something more than that. The house would to-morrow go
to the Derby. (" Hear," and laughter.) Hon. gentlemen
might laugh, but there was another Derby &yet a different
character, and he should prefer to see the house impeed on
it. (Renewed laughter.) When the country saw dishing*
enjoying themselves on the Derby day, and
afterwards in the Whitsuntide holidays, Wore any
debate took place on a question which was *Oaths
the mind of the country—(ironical ehmes)—he would say,
totally regardless of a sneer or a lave! from bow gentlemen
opposite, that the question was agitating the mild of the
'pantry from one end to the other—and when the country
saw this, he wished to ask any occupant of the Treasury
bench whether there was any objection on the part of the
government that the committee to search for precedents
should be nominated on Thursday. They all knew it was a
mere matter of form ; and if the house was in earnest. they
could on Friday, before they adjourned for the holidays,
decide on what was to be done.

Lord PALBIERTribif aid he maw so reason for deput-
ing from the course which he had siready pointed out in
reference to this question. (Hear.)

PUBLIC BUSINESS.
Lord PALMERSTON, in moving that upon Thursday'',
after Whitsuntide, orders of the day have precedence of
notices of motion, and that notices of motion have prece-
dence of orders of the day upon Fridays, stated that the
government proposed on Thursday next to take the third
reading of the Wine Linemen Bill, and then to proceed with
the civil service and navy estimate*.
The motion was speed to.
COUNTY RATES AND EXPENDITURE.

Sir J. TRELAW/iY moved for leave to bring in a bill
to establish county enaaciAl boards for the assessing of
county rates. and for the administration of county expendi-
ture in England and Wales. The bon. baronet said he
would explain the provisions of the bill upon the second
reading • and, in the event of its being read a second time,
he inta;ded to move that it be referral to a select coin.
nit tee.

Leave was given to bring in the bill.
THE REGIME DONUM.

Mr. BAXTER moved the following resolution :—" That
this house is of opinion that the grant now annually made
to nonconforming ministers in Ireland (commonly called
the repute donne]) should cease and be extinguished as
speedily as is consistent with the just expectations of the
recipients thereof ; and, with this view, that no further
pant be made on account of ' new congregations,' nor to
any existing congregations after the present ministers
thereof shall have ceased, by death or otherwise, to be the
ministers of such oongreptions."

Mr. CROSSLEY said he bad very greet pleasure in or
condi* the motion, because he believed that this was the
best made of settling this long vexed question of the re-
glum donum. They did not propose to interfere with
vested interests, but they merely asked that after the
deaths of the present incumbents no more points should
be made. He thought the bon. member for Montrose had
clearly shown that it wan not for the benefit of these minis-
ters that these greats should be made. He believed there
was a it tiding against all these grants in support of
religion and he trusted the house would, when the time
came, reject thew (Hear, hear.)
The question baying been put,
Mr. OONOLLY said he rose to move an amendment that
all the words after the words " rectum donutn" should be
omitted, and that the following words should be added to
the resolution :—" should no longer be exposed to the an-
nual entities of this house, but having been duly sanc-
tioned by this house for a lengthened period of time it
ought now to be placed upon the consolidated fund." (De-
risive " Hear, hear," from Mr. Williams and other boo.
members.) He hailed with some pleasure these derisive
cheers which greeted him, because they showed
the very scanty knowledge which certain heauurl
able members had of this subject, and their very
small lore of parliamentary experience of the grant. But
he would treat with the contempt they deserved those de-
risive cheers, proceeding as they did from the parliamentary
ignorance of those hon. gentlemen. (" Hear, hear." from
Mr. Williams and others.) The hot. member then quoted
from a speech of the Lite Sir B. Peel to show that he
wished to place the presbyterians of Ireland on the game
footing as other religious bodies. He begged to remind the
house that this resolution of the hon. member for Montrose
came with very small authority before the assembly to which
it wee addressed, for first of all the hon. member himself
represented a Scottish borough, and nextthe seconder of the
resolution represented an English constituency, although no
doubt it was one of the most distinguished in the king-
dom. Those hon. gentlemen mine forward, however, to
interfere with the &Haired the presbyterians of Ireland, a
matter which they knew very little about. He (Mr.
Conon') claimed to have a better opinion as to what was
good and fitting for the people of that religion in Ireland,
and he believed that • -withdrawal of the grant by the
crown would not be the way to cause an augmentation of
the revenues of that church.
Mr. It. P. DAWSON second the amendment.
Mr. CARDWELL was aware that the house was anxious
to come to a division, and therefore he suggested that the
hon. member for Donegal should withdraw en amendment
which could not carry out the object he had in view. The
hon. member for Montrose had opposed the grant on three
grounds. First, as to the financial ground. It was true it
cost4o.ooo/. a year, but then surely there were ooneiderations
of justice and state policy which rendered the saving of such
a sum • matter of very secondary consequence. Next,
the hon. member complained that it was a case of ®}versa)
endowment. Now, every one knew that before the great
rebellion, the presbyterians of Ireland enjoy-erl the tithes of
their district. When they refused to give up their alle-
giance to their sovereign, Cromwell sentenced them to
what was considered a rather severe punishment, namely.
he threatened to deport them to Tipperary. (laughter.)
Subsequently, Henry Cromwell came over to Ireland, and
they were more gently treated ; and finally, on the restora-
tion, the regium &num was established. The pubes-
quent history of the presbyterians of Ireland was
well koewn. Their loyalty and services in the
time of William the Third were fully recorded, as
also the subsequent events which brought their
history down to the present day. Under all these
circumstances he did not see how hie hon. friend could call
this a case of universal endowment. The third ground taken
by the hon. member was that the grant was au injury to
the recipients. On this point he (Mr. Cardwell) had con-
sulted the Moderator of the Synod of Ulster, who he non.
ceived understood the feelings of the presbyteries,. of Ire-
land quite es well as the hon. member, and that gentleman
was strongly in favour •of the continuance of the grant.
With respect to the May nooth grant, the house bad decided
to stand upon what had been already decoded, and had re-
fused even to discuss the motion submitted during the pre-
rant session. He trusted that, on the present occasion, they
would fellow a similar course.

Mr. COOLLY MU willing to withdraw the amend-
ment but some members having dissented, it was put amid
negatived.
The original motion was then put and the house divided:
Ayes
Nose 5B
217-159